Episode #210: America’s Stonehenge & It’s Possible Connections To The Restoration

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The.
You're listening to the Mormon

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Renegade podcast.
Dennis Stone.

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Man, I am so excited for this
conversation.

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Thanks so much for being here.
Well, thank you for having me

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on, Dave.
It was nice meeting you about 5

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weeks ago and I'm really excited
to be on your show today.

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Thank you.
Yeah.

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No, we met, yeah.
As as Dennis was just saying, we

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met about about 5 weeks ago back
when I was on the East Coast.

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And you know, really my wife and
I were just in this place of

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like, OK, well we've kind of saw
a lot of the things we wanted to

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see what's here close.
And my wife was just looking on

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her phone as we were having
breakfast and she's like,

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there's a place called America
Stonehenge just up the road.

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And man, my ears perked up.
So, you know, First off, I was a

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strange kid growing up, right?
And right after I first got

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married, I got, I found a book
by Graham Hancock called The

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Fingerprints of the Gods, which
talked about diffusion and those

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sorts of things happening much
sooner than we thought.

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And it sent me down this wild
rabbit hole of, of looking at,

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at, at societies or
civilizations that maybe.

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Aren't here any longer.
And as I started to investigate

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that, it looked like it held
water, then I became a Mormon.

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And of course, now I have a real
vested interest in an earlier

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diffusion.
And I had seen your site a

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couple of times.
And when Amber said, gosh, we're

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close.
I'm like, oh.

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We got to go.
And man, it did not disappoint.

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So, Dennis, I'm so glad that
you're here to talk about it

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with me, and I'm so thankful you
agreed to come on.

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Yeah, I'm glad you had that
breakfast and your wife and you

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get happy to spot that she
spotted that.

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Thank her for that.
That's great.

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And by the way, you had Graham,
Graham Hancock, Fingerprints of

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the Gods.
It may have been in the 1990s,

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perhaps.
I think it was quite a while

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ago.
One of the first books I saw by

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him.
Yeah, no, I, I first, I first

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picked up Fingerprints of the
Gods 95.

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It was the year I got married.
OK.

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Boy, it was, it was fascinating
and it, and it sent me down this

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rabbit hole And gosh, we start
seeing sites like this pop up

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and it really upsets the current
narrative with, with archaeology

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in general, right.
Archaeology, you know, is a, is

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relatively new science.
It's only been around for just

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over 100 years.
And in that 100 years they, they

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kind of said, well, we figured
it all out.

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We know what mankind's history
truly is, and that's not

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necessarily the case anymore,
Dennis, Right.

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It's.
Pretty much feel like they have

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written the history books, you
know, and that's, and that's it

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is what it is in the history
book.

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And you have a site like ours
and there's so many others, as

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you mentioned that don't fit in
that you know, that that history

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that they've written.
You know, our site is

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definitely, well, they basically
have said over the years that in

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the Northeast there's no ancient
stone ruins.

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And they pretty much taught that
to their students.

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These students, you know, became
history teachers or into

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archaeology or whatever.
And they maintain that the

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Northeast doesn't have any
ancient stonework or any ancient

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Native Americans were here for,
you know, thousands of years.

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But they looked for pottery and
points, maybe a burial, maybe a

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habitat site, maybe a workshop
where they're making tools, but

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nothing on the scales like what
you saw at our site today.

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We know of about 800 sites from
Quebec, Canada, in Ontario going

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down to Virginia.
And these sites really are not

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supposed to be here, according
to the history books.

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So their answer to that is it
appears that a bunch of crazy

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farmers built all these stone
structures, walls across the

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landscape.
And it's like crazy farmers, how

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many crazy farmers, they were
trying to make a living.

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They worked very, very hard, but
they wouldn't go out of the way

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to make things that were useless
for a farm, you know, But it's,

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it's still there a little bit
today.

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But I think some technology will
help to, to show the truth,

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hopefully different dating
techniques, the Astro

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archaeology we've been working
on since 1965.

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But again, these sites really
shouldn't be here, according to

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the history books and according
to what we call mainstream

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archaeologists, you know?
Right, absolutely.

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Now, now real quick here,
Dennis, as we dive in here,

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let's let's first, you know,
kind of establish what, what

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This site is, where it's at,
where it's located here in the

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Northeast.
Because I think, I think this is

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going to get people kind of
maybe coming to your to your

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area a little bit here because
this is fascinating.

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Oh, that's great.
Yeah.

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We'd love to have the people
come up and visit us.

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So we're located in Southern New
Hampshire.

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It's a town of North Salem, NH.
There's Salem and we're part of

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that, but we're actually in
North Salem, NH, about 40 miles

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north of Boston.
And we're about 15 miles from

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Manchester, Manchester, NH.
And they have a big airport.

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So people flying either Logan or
Manchester, they fly into.

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And the site is located, like I
say, the town of North Salem.

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It's about 100 and 106 acres
site.

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It's on a hill almost 350 feet
above sea level, and the site

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has been worked on for 90 years
now, archaeologically since

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1937.
So it was at the beginning of

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the kind of the beginning of
archaeology, as you mentioned.

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And so 90 years of research and
it continues to this day.

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We think it's a ceremonial site.
We don't think it's a place

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where people live necessarily.
The structures don't seem to be

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designed like that.
You know, there's a lot of

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structures with a lot of
stonework and they yield, you

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know, smaller spaces inside,
with the exception of the Oracle

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chamber, which is quite large.
I'm sure you took a look inside

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of that chamber.
It's a pretty, pretty

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interesting structure.
It even has like a stone bed in

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it, if you will.
And it has five closets.

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It has a chimney flue that used
to have two stone dampers.

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It has two carvings, one of a
deer and one of an arrow.

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It has a bench seat carved right
into a into the rock where three

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people could sit.
And it has two underground man

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made drains.
It has a tube called the Oracle

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tube.
It runs between the chamber and

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what we call the sacrificial
table.

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The tube is horizontal.
And the thought today is that

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that structure may have been
where priests are found and may

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have stayed during different
ceremonies, perhaps weddings,

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funerals, perhaps.
We just don't know.

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It's speculation at this point.
But also astronomical

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alignments, whether it's a
summer solstice, winter

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solstice, or even a cross
quarter day like November 1st,

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August 1st, February 1st, that
kind of thing.

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There's another chamber called
the Chamber in Ruins.

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It's quite large also.
And that chamber's interesting

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because we got 3 cabin datings
from Chaco in a root deck had

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been growing through this
structure, predating the

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colonial period going back as
early as 4000 years ago.

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In the charcoal, it had three
carvings that were found on it.

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They were on display in the
museum.

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They were found in the late 60s.
They were looked at by Doctor

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Berryfeld from Harvard
University, came first in 1975

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to visit us, and he studied not
only inscriptions at our site,

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but right across North America
and into South America.

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We know Native Americans left
petroglyphs and beautiful

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Peachel grass.
You know the paintings, you

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know, particularly out in the
West.

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We do have some in Vermont too,
in Brattleboro.

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I believe it is a beautiful
outlook.

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But these seem to be a different
nature.

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In fact, he interpreted them as
Phoenician, Libyan and Celtic

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Ogum or Oleum at our site.
And you're found right at that

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chamber and ruins too, right
near the entrance.

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And that has about a six ton
stone slab.

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That was a roof slab that has
now fallen into the structure.

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And it had a about 1000 lbs
stone lentil that's there.

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And that's about the spot where
the inscriptions were found

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right in that area near the
entrance of the structure.

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But this site, but this site has
a courtyard and has a it has a

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Plaza area which structures
throughout in it.

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It has a platform and you could
stand on and look down at the

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table, the table, the table's
interesting.

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It's bell shaped.
It's about 4 1/2 tons.

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You know what, Dennis, let me
let as you're talking about it

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here, let me let me pull up a
picture, picture of this table

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because I think it's, it's going
to be one of those things that

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that the viewers are going to
definitely want to see.

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Oh, perfect.
Yeah.

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You know, it's worth 1000 words.
Definitely.

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Yes.
Give me just one second here.

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So can you see that on your
side, Dennis?

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I'm actually it looks like it's
it's oh, there it comes.

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It just came up now.
Yes, it looks like it's on my

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side.
I can see it.

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So that's before, before we
start talking about the table

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here, let me ask you this
question.

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How did they establish the date
4000 years ago?

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Two different ways, one of them
was to carbon dating and you

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can't really carbon date
anything like rock.

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You can carbon date anything
that was living at one time,

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anything organic charcoal,
bones, shells.

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And what we did is we
accommodated a piece of route in

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1967 in the north wall of that
chamber, ruins growing through

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the wall.
And the tree stump was there in

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the 1930s.
Goodwin commented about the

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tree.
They couldn't do tree ring

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dating.
It was too rotted.

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But they estimated its age going
back into the 1600s.

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This is around 1937.
They were talking about that

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stump 30 years later in 1967,
the stump's pretty gone, But

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they excavated down a group
called New England Antiquities

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Research Association.
A couple of the members, James

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Whittall, there was Mitch
Chandler.

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She ended up getting a masters
in archaeology.

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She was a long term researcher
at Oxite and James was 2.

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So at 67 I got a picture of her
in my book actually extracting

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that piece of root from the
north wall.

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It was propagated to 1690 AD by
a Jericho Laboratories.

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They were located in Cambridge,
MA at the time they moved and we

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used them two years ago.
We still used that same lab all

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those years later for another
dating of some bones.

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So that show that the structure
is sitting there before the

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Paddy family and we can talk
about the Patty family, but it's

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also a pre colonial date for
that era.

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So it wasn't some crazy farmer
building that, you know, in the

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1690's the, the settlers hadn't
quite reached this area until

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you get into the around 17,
around 7 little into the 1700s

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and below that 1969, they
continued the excavation and

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they found sterile soil for a
couple of inches.

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And they were kind of
disappointed and like, oh, we

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got nothing here.
And they kept going down.

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And then they started hitting
charcoal flakes.

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And they also hit, started
hitting some stone tools, hammer

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stones, rubbing stones, stone
scrapers and stone pick.

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These stone 8 implements found
in the mix of charcoal.

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And again, this, this soil that
they were working on was a layer

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strict, a layer stratigraphy, if
you will.

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It has a certain color to it.
It represents a certain

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geological time period.
There's a spread of time in

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there.
You know, it was undisturbed

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right against the N wall.
That means that the wall was

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there first, this dirt came in
later.

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And that Chapel could have been
from a man made fire or perhaps

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natural.
But the date on that was 3000

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years old in 1969.
And they went down and they

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found that the bedrock right
below that had been quarried.

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So the first thing that took
place is the ancient builders

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removed some of the stone below
this charcoal and the stone

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tools.
They took the stone out of there

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and they're using it, I believe
for some of the wall materials

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to build some of the structures.
So they quarried the slab off

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00:12:15,800 --> 00:12:18,880
and then they built the wall for
the the N wall of the chamber

226
00:12:18,880 --> 00:12:21,320
ruins.
And then very slowly over time,

227
00:12:21,320 --> 00:12:25,120
soil starts to accumulate.
It's a process of wind blown

228
00:12:25,160 --> 00:12:28,800
particles and vegetation decay
very slowly depositing the soil

229
00:12:29,200 --> 00:12:33,920
and, and then everything after
that came, you know, so the 3000

230
00:12:33,920 --> 00:12:36,640
year old date was after the
stone was quarried and the wall

231
00:12:36,640 --> 00:12:40,320
was built.
But in 71 they dug adjacent to

232
00:12:40,320 --> 00:12:41,720
that.
And again they hit a couple more

233
00:12:42,160 --> 00:12:44,400
flakes of charcoal, some more
stone tools.

234
00:12:44,640 --> 00:12:46,160
They also found little
spallings.

235
00:12:46,160 --> 00:12:49,560
That's where somebody had been
hammering these slabs, scaping

236
00:12:49,560 --> 00:12:51,880
them or dressing them and
knocking off pieces of stone to

237
00:12:51,880 --> 00:12:54,360
get whatever scrape they wanted,
called percussion flaking.

238
00:12:54,760 --> 00:12:59,280
It's like making an Arrowhead or
or a spear and any of that.

239
00:13:00,000 --> 00:13:03,920
That charcoal was dated to 4000
years old plus or minus, I think

240
00:13:03,920 --> 00:13:08,280
250 years.
Now we had, we had a two more

241
00:13:08,280 --> 00:13:12,720
3000 year old dates that were
found in that main site too.

242
00:13:13,360 --> 00:13:15,960
One of them is in 1970 and the
other one, I'm trying to think

243
00:13:15,960 --> 00:13:19,400
of the date on the next one.
So we got 3000 year old dates.

244
00:13:19,400 --> 00:13:24,520
We got 4000 year old date.
And then the survey work on the

245
00:13:24,520 --> 00:13:28,240
astronomical alignments began in
1973.

246
00:13:28,560 --> 00:13:31,160
We cleared out the 1st Ave. in
1965.

247
00:13:31,360 --> 00:13:34,480
That was 60 years ago.
We disclosed the thug set and

248
00:13:34,480 --> 00:13:37,720
the astronomy started.
Then of the 1970s, we decided we

249
00:13:37,720 --> 00:13:41,000
had to hire a surveyor to get
accurate measurements of these

250
00:13:41,000 --> 00:13:43,720
alignments, the azmuth and
everything in the distances.

251
00:13:43,960 --> 00:13:47,160
They could have it all surveyed
and then they could look at it.

252
00:13:48,120 --> 00:13:52,560
They could actually, you know,
they could have people with this

253
00:13:52,560 --> 00:13:57,120
data actually look at it and see
what alignments we have besides

254
00:13:57,120 --> 00:14:00,320
just using your eyes to watch a
stone set, oh, the sun or moon

255
00:14:00,320 --> 00:14:02,480
or whatever rise you're set over
or a stone.

256
00:14:03,000 --> 00:14:05,360
That was a that was a five year
project in 73.

257
00:14:05,360 --> 00:14:07,920
We hired Beverly Pearson and
supposed to be at the Derry, NH

258
00:14:07,920 --> 00:14:11,080
engineering company and they
began working in 73.

259
00:14:11,240 --> 00:14:14,480
And the reason it took five
years, it was a lot of tree

260
00:14:14,480 --> 00:14:16,800
cutting in the five years so we
could open up avenues, They

261
00:14:16,800 --> 00:14:20,920
could survey better lines.
But it was also a funding thing.

262
00:14:20,920 --> 00:14:25,240
We had to set aside so much
money to pay for this.

263
00:14:25,720 --> 00:14:29,160
In fact, I was just reading one
of the letters yesterday from

264
00:14:29,160 --> 00:14:34,080
around 1977, I think it was 78,
and they were using a theodolite

265
00:14:34,080 --> 00:14:36,880
up there and some other, you
know, equipment and it was

266
00:14:36,880 --> 00:14:39,840
running $300.00 an hour back in
19 actually what that would be

267
00:14:39,840 --> 00:14:41,760
today if, you know, you inflate
it.

268
00:14:42,120 --> 00:14:44,600
So that's one of the reasons it
took five years.

269
00:14:45,480 --> 00:14:48,800
That data was compiled, sent to
The Hobbit, Smithsonian

270
00:14:48,880 --> 00:14:53,080
Institute for Astrophysics in
Cambridge, MA, for them to

271
00:14:53,080 --> 00:14:55,200
analyze it to see if we have any
alignments.

272
00:14:55,240 --> 00:14:58,840
And that was at a winter of
7778.

273
00:14:59,480 --> 00:15:04,920
And by the spring of 78, we get
the we got the the results.

274
00:15:05,320 --> 00:15:09,600
And the analysis was done by a
woman named Shoshanna Rosenthal.

275
00:15:09,920 --> 00:15:13,840
She's a very interesting person.
We just looked her up this year

276
00:15:13,840 --> 00:15:15,480
'cause we're doing goal work in
the astronomy.

277
00:15:15,480 --> 00:15:18,160
We have a new astronomer retired
from the University of Arizona.

278
00:15:18,520 --> 00:15:21,480
He reached out to us and he
wants to do more work on our

279
00:15:21,480 --> 00:15:22,680
site.
So that's fantastic.

280
00:15:22,680 --> 00:15:25,720
So we're trying to gather all
our records and all our data,

281
00:15:26,200 --> 00:15:29,400
and we happened to look her up
and she died in Boulder, Co this

282
00:15:29,400 --> 00:15:33,120
year, like about 95 or 96 years
old.

283
00:15:33,520 --> 00:15:39,360
But she's the one that actually
worked on back in 1963.

284
00:15:39,480 --> 00:15:43,440
He's 65 for Gerald Hopkins.
He was also from Brit Great

285
00:15:43,440 --> 00:15:47,360
Britain, but he lived in the
States and he worked at Boston

286
00:15:47,360 --> 00:15:49,600
University, I believe, and also
at The Hobbit, Smithsonian

287
00:15:49,600 --> 00:15:52,280
Center for Astrophysics.
And he's the one that wrote the

288
00:15:52,280 --> 00:15:55,480
book Stonehenge Decoded that
became a, a top, you know,

289
00:15:55,480 --> 00:16:01,280
selling hit and it resulted in
CBS in 1965 doing a, a special

290
00:16:01,280 --> 00:16:03,560
on Stonehenge called the
Mysteries of Stonehenge.

291
00:16:03,720 --> 00:16:06,960
They probably could.
I saw it back in 65 that we went

292
00:16:06,960 --> 00:16:10,080
to a, a library about 10 years
later in Nashville, New

293
00:16:10,080 --> 00:16:11,920
Hampshire.
We actually saw the film there.

294
00:16:11,920 --> 00:16:14,560
So I haven't seen it in 50
years, but I, I, what I should

295
00:16:14,560 --> 00:16:16,720
do is just check.
Maybe it's on YouTube, you know,

296
00:16:17,400 --> 00:16:22,080
but Gerald Hopkins talk person
on the team was Shoshana

297
00:16:22,080 --> 00:16:24,200
Rosenfeld.
And that's something I didn't

298
00:16:24,200 --> 00:16:26,360
realize.
I read the book, his book back

299
00:16:26,680 --> 00:16:29,080
50 something years ago and I
just reread it about a year or

300
00:16:29,080 --> 00:16:31,360
two ago and I thought there's
Shoshana's name right there.

301
00:16:31,720 --> 00:16:34,960
So he's the one that did the
analysis and he said to us if

302
00:16:34,960 --> 00:16:38,440
those stone markers were used
for economical purposes, they

303
00:16:38,440 --> 00:16:42,000
would work about 1800 BC, plus
or minus about 200 years.

304
00:16:42,000 --> 00:16:46,240
That's the same as that 1971
carbon dating, but 1800 BC plus

305
00:16:46,240 --> 00:16:49,800
or minus about 250 years.
And he went out to mention that

306
00:16:50,600 --> 00:16:53,760
we had 24 star alignments and
the only star alignment we knew

307
00:16:53,760 --> 00:16:58,320
at the time, back in 7078, let's
say, was the true North style,

308
00:16:58,320 --> 00:17:01,120
which is Polaris today.
But 4000 years ago, the US axis

309
00:17:01,120 --> 00:17:03,840
was pointing at Fu band.
It's a style in the

310
00:17:03,840 --> 00:17:07,200
constellation Draco Draco's kind
of a serpent, a dragon scape.

311
00:17:08,280 --> 00:17:10,599
And that comes up a little bit
later in some of the more recent

312
00:17:10,599 --> 00:17:12,640
spines we have of Serpentine
walls.

313
00:17:12,640 --> 00:17:16,599
You know, so that's the two ways
they basically dated it.

314
00:17:16,839 --> 00:17:19,680
But one of the other things are
the stone tools that puts it

315
00:17:19,680 --> 00:17:21,599
into a Stone Age period.
You don't have farmers

316
00:17:21,640 --> 00:17:24,440
necessarily using hammer stones,
rubbing stones, stones scrape is

317
00:17:24,440 --> 00:17:27,520
they're probably using metal
tools in the last few 100 years.

318
00:17:28,119 --> 00:17:30,800
And the way the stones are
shaped, actually, it was a

319
00:17:30,800 --> 00:17:32,360
technique called percussion
flaking.

320
00:17:32,360 --> 00:17:34,480
That's true of the sacrificial
table.

321
00:17:34,960 --> 00:17:38,360
That's true of the roof slabs,
wall slabs, the monoliths.

322
00:17:39,320 --> 00:17:42,800
Yeah.
By 1989, a book came out called

323
00:17:42,800 --> 00:17:45,160
Ancient and Modern Quarry
Techniques in America,

324
00:17:45,160 --> 00:17:49,240
Stonehenge and Doctor David
Stewart Smith, who was with us

325
00:17:49,240 --> 00:17:52,160
for almost 40 years.
It was kind of an expert in the

326
00:17:52,160 --> 00:17:55,000
way stones were quarried,
shaped, transported and built

327
00:17:55,000 --> 00:17:56,760
into structures.
He had worked for the British

328
00:17:56,760 --> 00:18:00,120
government for several years.
In the early 70s he got his

329
00:18:00,240 --> 00:18:04,680
Master of Mason's certificate.
He was working in Scotland and

330
00:18:04,680 --> 00:18:07,640
it was for what is called today
called English Heritage.

331
00:18:07,640 --> 00:18:09,280
We've been over to Europe many
times just to see so many

332
00:18:09,280 --> 00:18:11,480
hitches under English Heritage
and so many ancient.

333
00:18:11,800 --> 00:18:14,800
But he worked there in the 70s.
It was probably something called

334
00:18:14,800 --> 00:18:17,560
the Ancient Monument Group or
whatever it was.

335
00:18:17,560 --> 00:18:19,800
It was a different name, but
just saying like it does the

336
00:18:19,800 --> 00:18:22,720
same thing as English Heritage.
It's what it became, you know,

337
00:18:23,080 --> 00:18:28,280
So David came back to the States
around 78, and he was quite

338
00:18:28,280 --> 00:18:32,280
amazed that he came from New
England, that these stone

339
00:18:32,280 --> 00:18:35,360
structures existed.
So he worked on our site and he

340
00:18:35,360 --> 00:18:38,960
started finding that these big
slabs are in the stone walls.

341
00:18:39,040 --> 00:18:41,440
There's monoliths, there's
stones that are stacked up, the

342
00:18:41,440 --> 00:18:44,000
big plaques that they call them,
they're just in layers stacked

343
00:18:44,000 --> 00:18:45,600
up.
Some of them are stood on their

344
00:18:45,600 --> 00:18:49,720
end called the orthostats.
Big stones stood kind of kind of

345
00:18:49,720 --> 00:18:52,800
on the longitude.
Other longitude axis is parallel

346
00:18:52,800 --> 00:18:54,680
to the earth.
And we have them in many of the

347
00:18:54,680 --> 00:18:56,800
stone walls and they're also in
some of the structures.

348
00:18:57,200 --> 00:18:59,160
He started looking at the stones
very carefully.

349
00:18:59,160 --> 00:19:02,680
And then he told our staff
around 19791980, if you're out

350
00:19:02,680 --> 00:19:05,320
in the woods, you see a stone
that's propped up and maybe the

351
00:19:05,320 --> 00:19:08,400
edge of it looks serrated and it
looks artificially raised.

352
00:19:08,400 --> 00:19:11,440
Let me know.
And 1982, Mary Kramer, one of

353
00:19:11,440 --> 00:19:14,880
our staff members, was having a
picnic lunch out past the north

354
00:19:14,880 --> 00:19:16,600
stone.
And it was all just out in the

355
00:19:16,600 --> 00:19:17,720
middle of the woods in those
days.

356
00:19:17,720 --> 00:19:20,440
Today it's you can, you know,
it's much more open today out

357
00:19:20,440 --> 00:19:22,880
there.
And she's sitting there and she

358
00:19:22,880 --> 00:19:25,640
realized the stone she was
sitting on was a big slab, you

359
00:19:25,640 --> 00:19:28,040
know, and the edge of it started
and noticing the edge of it, I

360
00:19:28,040 --> 00:19:30,240
guess being a little scalloped
or serrated.

361
00:19:30,240 --> 00:19:33,120
And then she reached underneath
her where she was sitting and

362
00:19:33,120 --> 00:19:34,320
she pulled out a piece of
script.

363
00:19:34,320 --> 00:19:39,840
The script is a, it's before
the, before this granite becomes

364
00:19:39,840 --> 00:19:42,440
granted, actually it's kind of a
very brittle stone.

365
00:19:42,760 --> 00:19:45,280
It hasn't gone through the next
process of becoming this hard

366
00:19:45,280 --> 00:19:47,240
granite.
And we are the Granite State.

367
00:19:47,640 --> 00:19:50,480
So she realized it had been
knocked off by somebody.

368
00:19:50,480 --> 00:19:53,000
Somebody actually knocked this
piece off the stone that she was

369
00:19:53,000 --> 00:19:55,240
sitting on, but she realized
also was brittle.

370
00:19:55,240 --> 00:19:57,560
So wouldn't why would they do
that if this piece of film

371
00:19:57,560 --> 00:19:59,760
couldn't be used as a tool?
It's way too brittle.

372
00:19:59,760 --> 00:20:02,240
You can't make an Arrowhead.
You can't make a stone knife out

373
00:20:02,240 --> 00:20:05,080
of it.
So he he looked underneath it

374
00:20:05,080 --> 00:20:06,760
and she saw the cropping stone
too.

375
00:20:06,760 --> 00:20:09,360
And because Dave had told us
staff to look for these kind of

376
00:20:09,360 --> 00:20:11,640
things.
So I guess that really raised

377
00:20:11,640 --> 00:20:13,880
her curiosity and I guess a
little excitement.

378
00:20:13,880 --> 00:20:16,720
She told Dave.
Dave soon came down, you know,

379
00:20:16,720 --> 00:20:20,400
to visit and saw that and quite
amazed by this.

380
00:20:21,080 --> 00:20:24,000
The next year, he brought in
Doctor Gary Hume, our state

381
00:20:24,000 --> 00:20:26,040
archaeologist.
And Doctor Gary Hume was a

382
00:20:26,040 --> 00:20:28,960
lithic specialist.
He's with how stone tools, how

383
00:20:28,960 --> 00:20:31,440
stone was made into tools,
utensils and, you know, like

384
00:20:31,480 --> 00:20:32,880
weapons and kind of that kind of
thing.

385
00:20:33,200 --> 00:20:35,760
So he oversaw the project with
David Stewart Smith.

386
00:20:36,160 --> 00:20:38,680
They excavated under it, and
they found hundreds of pieces of

387
00:20:39,000 --> 00:20:41,320
little flakes that have been
hammered off the edge of that

388
00:20:41,320 --> 00:20:43,040
stone.
As you look at the stone you'll

389
00:20:43,040 --> 00:20:45,760
see it's all serrated.
That was the first we found.

390
00:20:45,760 --> 00:20:50,440
That stone was probably about a
10, about a 3000 to 4000 LB

391
00:20:50,440 --> 00:20:54,320
stone.
Over the next few years, they

392
00:20:54,320 --> 00:20:56,960
found a couple more of these,
all propped up artificially.

393
00:20:57,280 --> 00:21:00,640
Today, we have about 30-4 of
these all over the hilltop up to

394
00:21:00,680 --> 00:21:04,000
1000 feet from the main site.
It had dawned on us most

395
00:21:04,000 --> 00:21:07,160
recently that whoever was
building this site had a much

396
00:21:07,200 --> 00:21:09,520
bigger project.
And you're out there preparing

397
00:21:09,520 --> 00:21:11,320
these stones.
You would work a fish or crack

398
00:21:11,320 --> 00:21:14,560
in the bedrock they would prop,
they would put dried wedges in

399
00:21:14,560 --> 00:21:15,760
there.
They would crop it.

400
00:21:16,080 --> 00:21:18,280
And then they get the edge of it
up, and then they can start

401
00:21:18,280 --> 00:21:20,240
shaping it.
And because the next step would

402
00:21:20,240 --> 00:21:23,280
be to get it to the main site,
if that was their intention.

403
00:21:24,200 --> 00:21:26,240
And at that time, the hilltop is
pretty bare.

404
00:21:26,240 --> 00:21:28,000
We didn't have the forest up
there, so you don't have the

405
00:21:28,000 --> 00:21:29,640
trees in the way trying to drag
the stone.

406
00:21:29,640 --> 00:21:32,320
You didn't have soft soil.
Even if you use log roll.

407
00:21:32,320 --> 00:21:35,040
If you don't want the log
rollers sinking into soft soil,

408
00:21:35,320 --> 00:21:37,280
I suppose you could wait till
winter when it's cold.

409
00:21:37,280 --> 00:21:39,480
But then you have the winter
conditions making it very, you

410
00:21:39,480 --> 00:21:42,680
know, very difficult too.
So we're pretty sure when they

411
00:21:42,680 --> 00:21:46,080
built this site, they were
looking at a fairly clear hill.

412
00:21:46,520 --> 00:21:50,360
And Pat Hume, our now the same
name is Doctor Gary Hume, but

413
00:21:50,360 --> 00:21:52,360
they're not married.
She was the president of the New

414
00:21:52,360 --> 00:21:53,840
Hampshire Archaeological
Society.

415
00:21:54,440 --> 00:21:55,720
Everybody thought they were
married.

416
00:21:55,720 --> 00:21:57,280
They were not.
They're still friends.

417
00:21:57,280 --> 00:21:59,960
They're both still alive.
But she was married to a doctor

418
00:21:59,960 --> 00:22:03,240
with geology at Tux University
who was very useful in the way

419
00:22:03,240 --> 00:22:06,720
to soil all about the geology in
New Hampshire, basically, you

420
00:22:06,720 --> 00:22:09,360
know, from the Ice Age to
present day.

421
00:22:09,840 --> 00:22:13,720
And she did a bunch of shovel
test bits starting around 1992

422
00:22:13,720 --> 00:22:15,880
and actually up to about 3 years
ago when she retired.

423
00:22:15,880 --> 00:22:20,160
She's 92 years old now.
But around 92, she started going

424
00:22:20,160 --> 00:22:22,600
out and doing shovel test,
pitch, measuring soil depth

425
00:22:23,280 --> 00:22:27,200
profile, all those layers of
soil and recording that it was a

426
00:22:27,200 --> 00:22:30,160
50cm hole across.
So square holes.

427
00:22:30,480 --> 00:22:33,040
If you found anything
interesting, she would stop and

428
00:22:33,040 --> 00:22:34,800
then she would do a full scale
excavation.

429
00:22:34,800 --> 00:22:37,440
So these are what they are,
shovel tests that they call.

430
00:22:37,440 --> 00:22:39,920
But these trials and brushes
too, it's very happily done.

431
00:22:40,240 --> 00:22:42,720
And I assisted her on many of
those, plus some of the other,

432
00:22:43,160 --> 00:22:44,640
some of her other assistants
help.

433
00:22:44,920 --> 00:22:47,800
I think we did about 90 of them,
about one per acre.

434
00:22:47,800 --> 00:22:52,320
We have 106 acres and but early
on after you know, a couple

435
00:22:52,320 --> 00:22:54,960
dozen, she started saying I
think we just site was built.

436
00:22:54,960 --> 00:22:57,520
It appears, and she consulted
with her husband, that doctor

437
00:22:57,520 --> 00:23:01,480
geology, that the hilltop was
probably pretty bare.

438
00:23:01,840 --> 00:23:04,560
And with a Bear Hill, you can
see the astronomical alignments

439
00:23:04,560 --> 00:23:07,520
without trees in the way,
without much soil.

440
00:23:08,000 --> 00:23:10,680
The site has a whole system of
underground drains.

441
00:23:10,680 --> 00:23:12,760
You would need those drains to
keep the bedrock dry.

442
00:23:12,760 --> 00:23:14,320
Otherwise the water will put a
lot.

443
00:23:14,600 --> 00:23:17,120
So that might account for why we
have drains, some of them up to

444
00:23:17,120 --> 00:23:20,640
65 feet, that go underground to
keep the deadrock dry.

445
00:23:20,680 --> 00:23:23,760
So somebody engineered those
first realizing you had a water

446
00:23:23,760 --> 00:23:25,760
problem.
Bedrock doesn't absorb water too

447
00:23:25,760 --> 00:23:28,400
well.
And also, when you're going out

448
00:23:28,400 --> 00:23:32,400
looking for these stones to
quarry, you can see the bedrock

449
00:23:32,400 --> 00:23:33,920
and see, I think this is a good
spot.

450
00:23:33,920 --> 00:23:36,280
Look at that bedrock there.
It has some fractures in it.

451
00:23:36,280 --> 00:23:38,760
I think we can get in there.
You know, if you have wooden

452
00:23:38,800 --> 00:23:41,920
wedges in there or stone wedges,
we can pop that slab.

453
00:23:42,120 --> 00:23:44,880
We can, you know, prop it up.
You can start working on it.

454
00:23:45,560 --> 00:23:52,320
We have 34 of these things.
I'm sure we're going to find

455
00:23:52,320 --> 00:23:54,200
more of these as we keep looking
in the woods because they're

456
00:23:54,200 --> 00:23:58,280
hiding out there.
So that to us shows that it was

457
00:23:58,280 --> 00:24:01,080
an ancient culture, not some
modern farmer out there.

458
00:24:01,560 --> 00:24:04,000
Farmers usually try to get rid
of rocks.

459
00:24:04,080 --> 00:24:06,200
I got to.
I don't hear that space for

460
00:24:08,480 --> 00:24:11,480
that.
So this is part of the Sonage

461
00:24:11,480 --> 00:24:15,680
technology, as Doctor Gary Hume
said, the big slabs and the the

462
00:24:15,680 --> 00:24:18,120
roof slabs, wall slabs,
sacrificial cable, the

463
00:24:18,120 --> 00:24:20,520
astronomical alignment, the
author stats I mentioned

464
00:24:20,520 --> 00:24:23,720
previously, and even the layered
slabs that are stacked up in the

465
00:24:23,720 --> 00:24:28,000
walls around the main site.
Like the 16 acres of those are

466
00:24:28,000 --> 00:24:30,160
all manufactured slabs.
You know, those aren't just

467
00:24:30,160 --> 00:24:31,720
something that happens
naturally.

468
00:24:31,720 --> 00:24:33,320
A few of them might get popped
up by nature.

469
00:24:33,320 --> 00:24:36,760
For the most part, these were
actually taken and they show

470
00:24:36,760 --> 00:24:39,120
signs of Stone Age, you know,
dressing.

471
00:24:39,120 --> 00:24:42,040
So hammer stones against stone,
not metal tools.

472
00:24:42,320 --> 00:24:44,640
So that kind of puts a sight
back into a Stone Age.

473
00:24:44,680 --> 00:24:46,680
Then we have the the
astronomical data.

474
00:24:46,680 --> 00:24:51,000
We have the the carbon datings.
Yeah, we have 16 carbon datings.

475
00:24:51,000 --> 00:24:54,720
So now we have OSL and the OSL
is optically stimulated

476
00:24:54,720 --> 00:24:58,360
luminescence.
And we had it done in 2020.

477
00:24:58,360 --> 00:25:02,920
We got the results back in 2022.
And one of them was from the

478
00:25:02,920 --> 00:25:05,800
roof of the Oracle Chamber.
And before they came up, they

479
00:25:05,800 --> 00:25:09,840
asked do you have a couple of
good spots that we could do

480
00:25:09,840 --> 00:25:11,520
testing?
And I said, well, maybe the

481
00:25:11,520 --> 00:25:13,400
Oracle Chamber roof, maybe the
watch house.

482
00:25:13,760 --> 00:25:17,280
And I was working with a couple
of people on that.

483
00:25:17,400 --> 00:25:19,560
And it lead was Doctor Feathers
from the University of

484
00:25:19,560 --> 00:25:22,040
Washington, his two assistants
from Brookhaven National

485
00:25:22,040 --> 00:25:24,440
Laboratory in New York.
And then he had another, you

486
00:25:24,440 --> 00:25:27,360
know, other assistants too.
And I was talking with one of

487
00:25:27,360 --> 00:25:30,200
them from a group called Mirror,
New England Antiquities Research

488
00:25:30,200 --> 00:25:32,880
Association that my dad actually
started in 1964.

489
00:25:32,880 --> 00:25:34,640
So Mirror was involved with
that, too.

490
00:25:35,080 --> 00:25:38,400
And so I went up there and I
took a key probe my dad had made

491
00:25:38,400 --> 00:25:42,200
back in the 60s or 70s, just a
very thin rod with a handle on

492
00:25:42,200 --> 00:25:45,360
it, push it into the soil.
And on the Oracle chamber roof,

493
00:25:45,360 --> 00:25:47,400
I thought I'd go down 5 or 6 or
7 inches.

494
00:25:47,400 --> 00:25:50,520
I actually went down between 17
inches after it was on the roof

495
00:25:50,520 --> 00:25:52,560
to 24.
I was quite amazed.

496
00:25:52,560 --> 00:25:56,080
And they put little flags in the
holes because OSL is a light

497
00:25:56,080 --> 00:25:58,280
test.
It's the last time that soil,

498
00:25:58,280 --> 00:26:02,200
the rocks are the light of day.
And if the light gets into that

499
00:26:02,200 --> 00:26:04,320
tiny little hole, I want to make
sure they didn't dig there

500
00:26:04,320 --> 00:26:06,800
because that light get into the
hole, it actually contaminates

501
00:26:06,800 --> 00:26:09,000
the soil sample.
So I told them they were.

502
00:26:09,120 --> 00:26:10,880
They said that's perfect, that's
what we need.

503
00:26:10,880 --> 00:26:12,800
A couple inches wouldn't work.
That's perfect.

504
00:26:13,320 --> 00:26:17,480
Well, that date came back 1550AD
and it said that the last time

505
00:26:18,000 --> 00:26:22,000
that soil it was several.
Inches down Dennis Dennis, Say

506
00:26:22,000 --> 00:26:23,880
that date again.
When?

507
00:26:23,920 --> 00:26:27,840
What did that testing reveal?
Yeah, 1550 AD.

508
00:26:27,840 --> 00:26:31,720
So that's before the colonial
period for sure in New England.

509
00:26:31,720 --> 00:26:34,760
That's not a colonial European
settler building.

510
00:26:34,760 --> 00:26:38,640
That chamber, 1550, almost 500
years ago.

511
00:26:39,000 --> 00:26:41,600
And what Doctor Feather says the
question chamber was built

512
00:26:41,600 --> 00:26:43,680
before this.
And the question is how many

513
00:26:43,680 --> 00:26:45,640
years before this was that
chamber built?

514
00:26:46,040 --> 00:26:48,880
And then you had this dirt, you
know, building up probably

515
00:26:48,880 --> 00:26:52,080
naturally because everywhere
we've done so far, we find the

516
00:26:52,080 --> 00:26:54,520
layers of sticker.
If somebody just shoveled the

517
00:26:54,520 --> 00:26:57,200
dirt up there all at once, it
would be one color, you know, if

518
00:26:57,200 --> 00:26:59,920
it would fit, different color
bands represent different time

519
00:26:59,920 --> 00:27:02,440
periods.
So that was interesting.

520
00:27:03,240 --> 00:27:05,320
And then we have a, you know,
the other dates pushing the site

521
00:27:05,320 --> 00:27:08,200
back towards 4000 years.
So that's a minimum date.

522
00:27:08,240 --> 00:27:09,720
That's not a date when it was
built.

523
00:27:09,720 --> 00:27:13,240
That's the minimum date that
1550 AD the other sample.

524
00:27:13,240 --> 00:27:14,880
Was the last time it was
exposed.

525
00:27:15,720 --> 00:27:17,200
Into the light.
Exactly, yeah.

526
00:27:17,520 --> 00:27:19,720
And then it's, you know, again,
question, was a roof there for

527
00:27:19,720 --> 00:27:22,320
many, many centuries or many
decades or many years?

528
00:27:23,240 --> 00:27:25,760
And then the soil builds up.
In New New England, it's about

529
00:27:25,760 --> 00:27:31,200
an inch of soil accumulation on
a level spot takes about 125

530
00:27:31,200 --> 00:27:33,560
years.
So if you had 24 inches, you can

531
00:27:33,560 --> 00:27:36,680
multiply that times 125.
But that's just an average, you

532
00:27:36,680 --> 00:27:38,280
know, you can't go exactly by
that.

533
00:27:39,120 --> 00:27:40,680
But that could represent 3000
years.

534
00:27:40,840 --> 00:27:43,720
That could be 3000 years of soil
buildup if it's undisturbed.

535
00:27:43,720 --> 00:27:46,520
And if that's what it is, it's a
possibility, just 3000.

536
00:27:46,920 --> 00:27:48,320
You know, we just don't know for
sure.

537
00:27:48,320 --> 00:27:50,520
I'm sure in the future layoff,
even better techniques.

538
00:27:51,240 --> 00:27:54,440
And I suppose the thing to do is
get that 24 inches.

539
00:27:54,440 --> 00:27:57,360
He took only one sample per day.
My wife goes she didn't take one

540
00:27:57,360 --> 00:28:00,600
a few inches above that kind of
to get a different time period

541
00:28:00,600 --> 00:28:03,680
as the soil built up.
It's $1000 per sample.

542
00:28:03,680 --> 00:28:07,520
So they did not.
So you went down to the watch

543
00:28:07,520 --> 00:28:09,160
out a.
Little cost prohibitive there

544
00:28:09,160 --> 00:28:11,040
it.
Comes back to money, you know,

545
00:28:11,040 --> 00:28:12,880
and, and that's important, you
know.

546
00:28:13,160 --> 00:28:16,840
So we did 4 samples on the site
and there it did have some

547
00:28:16,840 --> 00:28:19,560
funding to help.
And we had, we had to, we

548
00:28:19,560 --> 00:28:22,240
contributed money for it
obviously too, you know, 'cause

549
00:28:22,440 --> 00:28:24,560
you know, that's what we do.
But here it was very nice 'cause

550
00:28:24,560 --> 00:28:28,680
they wanted to do places from
here to Virginia and we were one

551
00:28:28,680 --> 00:28:31,200
of the ones selected.
And they did have a couple

552
00:28:31,200 --> 00:28:35,840
benefactors left them money and
that was very nice and, and a

553
00:28:35,840 --> 00:28:37,840
bit of money too.
So they could carry out this,

554
00:28:39,000 --> 00:28:43,720
this project.
They did the watch house.

555
00:28:43,720 --> 00:28:46,280
It's actually the chamber there.
I don't know if you have a

556
00:28:46,280 --> 00:28:49,000
picture of the watch house.
It's a, it's one of the, it's

557
00:28:49,000 --> 00:28:50,960
what, besides the Oracle
Chamber, it's probably one of

558
00:28:50,960 --> 00:28:54,040
the more interesting structures
on this site because of what we

559
00:28:54,040 --> 00:28:57,240
know about it so far.
It's a satellite structure.

560
00:28:57,240 --> 00:29:00,720
It's about 350 feet from the
main site kind of to the

561
00:29:00,760 --> 00:29:03,680
southeast.
It's the first neighbor you came

562
00:29:03,680 --> 00:29:08,040
to when you took the tour.
And so you got our visitor

563
00:29:08,040 --> 00:29:10,160
center and you go up either one
way or the other way.

564
00:29:10,160 --> 00:29:13,120
There's two ways of going up.
Both ways take you right to the

565
00:29:13,120 --> 00:29:15,200
watch house.
It's a boulder with a chamber

566
00:29:15,200 --> 00:29:18,600
right next to it.
And Goodwin knew about it back

567
00:29:18,600 --> 00:29:20,440
in the 30s when he was working
on the site.

568
00:29:20,520 --> 00:29:23,640
His focus was on the main site.
We talked about the main site

569
00:29:23,640 --> 00:29:26,520
too, a bit at the beginning and
that's about a one acre area.

570
00:29:26,880 --> 00:29:30,880
It has a chain link fence that
surrounds it today with barbed

571
00:29:30,880 --> 00:29:34,080
wire on top, and that was put up
in 1937.

572
00:29:34,080 --> 00:29:35,960
And the fences are remarkably
good shape.

573
00:29:35,960 --> 00:29:38,880
We take care of it as part of
the history of the site now, a

574
00:29:38,880 --> 00:29:40,760
good one.
Put it there to stop people from

575
00:29:40,760 --> 00:29:45,200
going in there and playing
around, knocking things down,

576
00:29:46,400 --> 00:29:49,040
you know, and also taking away
artifacts.

577
00:29:49,240 --> 00:29:52,600
So he put the barbed wire facing
in towards the site.

578
00:29:52,600 --> 00:29:56,680
Hopefully that would, you know,
help reduce sex, Vodifats,

579
00:29:56,680 --> 00:30:00,040
whatever type, pottery or, you
know, stone, whatever you find

580
00:30:00,040 --> 00:30:02,440
up there and messing around with
the site.

581
00:30:02,440 --> 00:30:06,880
So that that's the one acre area
surrounded by today 106 acres of

582
00:30:07,560 --> 00:30:10,320
of land.
The whole hilltop was part of

583
00:30:10,320 --> 00:30:13,160
another hill.
And as we studied it, we found

584
00:30:13,160 --> 00:30:15,120
these stone slabs all over the
hilltop.

585
00:30:15,600 --> 00:30:18,240
We found other things such as
Serpentine walls out there

586
00:30:18,240 --> 00:30:20,920
shaped like serpents.
But the watch house is again

587
00:30:20,920 --> 00:30:24,240
away from the main site.
There are 50 structures like

588
00:30:24,240 --> 00:30:27,240
that in New England, A glacial
boulder built on the right side,

589
00:30:27,520 --> 00:30:30,240
the structure built on the left
as you're facing into it.

590
00:30:30,640 --> 00:30:34,000
There's one in Connecticut at
Gunji Wamp near the Navy base in

591
00:30:34,040 --> 00:30:37,080
in Connecticut.
And that is a 250 acre site.

592
00:30:37,080 --> 00:30:39,320
It has a lot of the stone work
that we have at our site,

593
00:30:39,320 --> 00:30:43,120
including that type of chamber.
And there are 49 others

594
00:30:43,120 --> 00:30:46,200
elsewhere in New England.
It has that same kind of, I

595
00:30:46,200 --> 00:30:50,000
suppose, design to it, you know,
But what we didn't know is the

596
00:30:50,000 --> 00:30:54,120
watch house until more recently,
has an illumination inside of

597
00:30:54,120 --> 00:30:54,520
it.
I don't know.

598
00:30:54,520 --> 00:30:57,840
If you look inside of it, Dave,
there's a quartzite stone, a

599
00:30:57,840 --> 00:31:00,440
beautiful quartzite stone.
As you look into the structure

600
00:31:00,440 --> 00:31:02,520
of the back wall.
Everything else is great.

601
00:31:02,520 --> 00:31:05,080
Granite, kind of.
This is kind of a whitish

602
00:31:05,080 --> 00:31:08,280
colored stone.
It's been talked about for

603
00:31:08,280 --> 00:31:12,680
years, even paranormal, some
people call him the father of

604
00:31:12,680 --> 00:31:14,880
the paranormal.
Hansol to started visiting us in

605
00:31:14,880 --> 00:31:19,600
1970 and by 1992 he wrote a book
called long before Columbus, so

606
00:31:19,600 --> 00:31:21,800
Columbus's 500th year
anniversary.

607
00:31:22,320 --> 00:31:25,440
And he mentions that actually
the person who did the foreword,

608
00:31:25,960 --> 00:31:29,560
Barbara Han Cloud actually wrote
the foreword and she been to our

609
00:31:29,560 --> 00:31:30,880
site.
She was actually intrigued by

610
00:31:30,880 --> 00:31:33,400
that stone, you know, and she we
would see it some time before

611
00:31:33,400 --> 00:31:37,600
1992 and she did that.
And in 1996 our souvenir book

612
00:31:37,600 --> 00:31:40,320
came out, the very first one,
not the very first book, but a

613
00:31:40,320 --> 00:31:42,760
souvenir book on our site.
And we just put the light latest

614
00:31:42,760 --> 00:31:45,800
one out in 2018.
Joanne Lambert, who wrote that

615
00:31:45,800 --> 00:31:49,080
book, was intrigued by that
stone, often wondering what the

616
00:31:49,080 --> 00:31:51,800
devil is that, you know?
So why would they put that like

617
00:31:51,800 --> 00:31:52,920
that?
It seems to be something

618
00:31:52,920 --> 00:31:57,160
important, you know.
So in 19, 20/19, a friend of

619
00:31:57,160 --> 00:31:59,880
mine from Texas was up, she was
visiting.

620
00:31:59,880 --> 00:32:01,960
She had an app on her phone.
I hadn't heard of it, but I

621
00:32:01,960 --> 00:32:04,960
hadn't put it on my phone yet.
Called Sunseeker.

622
00:32:05,320 --> 00:32:08,400
It could, It does astronomical,
you know, calculations where the

623
00:32:08,400 --> 00:32:09,800
sun rises.
It's kind of cool.

624
00:32:09,800 --> 00:32:12,240
You can actually go up there
with Sunseeker any day of the

625
00:32:12,240 --> 00:32:14,880
year and look at our alignments
and you can actually kind of

626
00:32:15,120 --> 00:32:18,040
simulate the sun rising or
setting and you can go back in

627
00:32:18,040 --> 00:32:20,600
time, I guess.
But she went into the chamber

628
00:32:21,200 --> 00:32:23,800
and she stood in there.
She used the sun seeker, she

629
00:32:23,800 --> 00:32:27,600
said her boyfriend into my song
because I think the sunlight

630
00:32:27,600 --> 00:32:30,560
went to this chamber and
illuminate the stone maybe

631
00:32:30,560 --> 00:32:32,840
around 9:00 on the equinox
morning.

632
00:32:32,840 --> 00:32:35,680
It's a special day, you know,
the equinox I so that's really

633
00:32:35,680 --> 00:32:38,040
interesting.
I said well we are having a

634
00:32:38,040 --> 00:32:41,000
forestry project starting and
she was here at 19 in the

635
00:32:41,000 --> 00:32:43,720
spring.
The project started six years

636
00:32:43,720 --> 00:32:44,600
ago.
Right about now.

637
00:32:44,600 --> 00:32:47,160
They were bringing the equipment
into the winter to start

638
00:32:47,280 --> 00:32:49,840
thinning out the forest and open
up all the astronomical

639
00:32:49,840 --> 00:32:53,160
alignments.
It was a 2 winter project and

640
00:32:53,160 --> 00:32:57,120
they did a beautiful job.
A year later we were up there to

641
00:32:57,120 --> 00:33:00,560
see if she was correct.
It was the spring of 2020 and we

642
00:33:00,560 --> 00:33:04,160
were standing there just before
8:00 in the morning watching the

643
00:33:04,160 --> 00:33:08,280
sun to see what it would do.
And just by 8:00, the rock has

644
00:33:08,280 --> 00:33:10,240
kind of a kind of a neat design
to it.

645
00:33:10,600 --> 00:33:12,880
And what happened is the
entrance of the structure.

646
00:33:12,880 --> 00:33:16,520
These people, the ancient people
designed the structure entrance

647
00:33:17,080 --> 00:33:20,360
to create a shadow light effect
and what it did we had no idea

648
00:33:20,360 --> 00:33:23,240
it would do this.
It actually about 8:00 for just

649
00:33:23,240 --> 00:33:25,840
a couple minutes.
The top of that stone is is

650
00:33:25,880 --> 00:33:29,480
spraying by the shadow and light
the same shape as that stone.

651
00:33:30,200 --> 00:33:34,040
We stayed there till 8:30.
We look back at 8:30 and it sure

652
00:33:34,240 --> 00:33:37,000
that light shadow turned into
looks like a hand with a finger

653
00:33:37,000 --> 00:33:41,360
pointing back at that stone and
started doing some you know,

654
00:33:41,640 --> 00:33:44,240
thinking about that and talking
to other people.

655
00:33:44,600 --> 00:33:48,600
And I thought is that that is
kind of like what happens at the

656
00:33:48,600 --> 00:33:52,800
Newport tower in Rhode Island on
the Chris on the winter solstice

657
00:33:52,800 --> 00:33:57,240
is a egg shaped just above one
of the arches and there's a

658
00:33:57,240 --> 00:33:59,520
window box on the other side of
the Newport tower.

659
00:33:59,520 --> 00:34:01,520
I don't know if all you listen
is know about the Newport Tower.

660
00:34:01,520 --> 00:34:02,920
They can go, but it's really
famous.

661
00:34:02,920 --> 00:34:06,280
But on History Channel, Travel
Channel, Discover Channel, it's

662
00:34:06,280 --> 00:34:08,840
a mystery who built this tower
right in Newport, RI.

663
00:34:09,520 --> 00:34:12,080
But anyway, the light goes in
there at 9 O clock at the

664
00:34:12,080 --> 00:34:13,679
Newport tower and it illuminates
this.

665
00:34:13,679 --> 00:34:15,159
It looks like an egg, just like
an egg.

666
00:34:15,440 --> 00:34:18,239
And the thought is, and this
some people talk about the

667
00:34:18,239 --> 00:34:20,920
Knights Templar building it.
There's Governor Benedict

668
00:34:20,920 --> 00:34:26,840
Arnold, his not the traitor, but
it was a uncle, I believe, or

669
00:34:26,840 --> 00:34:28,679
Benedict Arnold.
There's a family relationship,

670
00:34:28,679 --> 00:34:31,520
but it's the governor going back
earlier in time than Benedict

671
00:34:31,520 --> 00:34:35,440
Arnold, the traitor that this
illumination actually represents

672
00:34:35,840 --> 00:34:38,679
fertility.
The sun inches the womb of that

673
00:34:39,440 --> 00:34:43,840
that window it goes and strikes
that egg and it illuminates it.

674
00:34:44,080 --> 00:34:47,080
And that's what this seems to do
in our in our watch house like

675
00:34:47,080 --> 00:34:50,040
that's the womb, the light, the
fertilization ponalysis in the

676
00:34:50,040 --> 00:34:53,560
spring, not the winter.
New Grange in Ireland I've been

677
00:34:53,560 --> 00:34:57,280
to it has a looks like a big we
had to put flying saucer.

678
00:34:57,280 --> 00:34:59,440
It's in the Boyne Valley north
of Dublin.

679
00:34:59,680 --> 00:35:02,520
And there are these other ones
sibilant called Nelson Delph

680
00:35:02,520 --> 00:35:04,600
near them.
They're gigantic, built over

681
00:35:04,600 --> 00:35:09,280
5000 years ago there, but
there's a 65 foot tunnel and you

682
00:35:09,280 --> 00:35:12,040
go into the entrance, but above
you head there's a window like

683
00:35:12,040 --> 00:35:15,440
we talked about windows, you
know, and the light goes down 65

684
00:35:15,440 --> 00:35:17,440
feet on the width of solstice at
9 O clock.

685
00:35:17,440 --> 00:35:19,320
Like the Newport Tower.
They're in different time zones,

686
00:35:19,320 --> 00:35:21,600
so different time of the day,
but the same hour of the day.

687
00:35:22,040 --> 00:35:24,360
And it's the back wall.
It's cruciform and shape and

688
00:35:24,360 --> 00:35:27,360
illuminates the back.
And each year the Irish

689
00:35:27,360 --> 00:35:32,960
government actually has a
lottery and people can put their

690
00:35:32,960 --> 00:35:34,560
name in it.
If they win, they get to go see

691
00:35:34,560 --> 00:35:36,040
this.
We've been into the chamber, but

692
00:35:36,040 --> 00:35:38,120
not on the and that's the watch
house actually.

693
00:35:38,120 --> 00:35:39,080
Thank you, Dave, for pulling
that.

694
00:35:39,080 --> 00:35:40,880
That's actually hard to see it
there.

695
00:35:41,080 --> 00:35:43,360
That's in the distance.
Let's see that's looking up at

696
00:35:43,360 --> 00:35:45,920
it from a distance.
That's just, I think that's one

697
00:35:45,920 --> 00:35:48,440
of the ortho stat stones.
That's the pathway near the

698
00:35:48,480 --> 00:35:52,200
watch house.
But that was quite a thing.

699
00:35:52,200 --> 00:35:55,720
So I sent a message to it.
I said the alignment works, it's

700
00:35:55,720 --> 00:35:57,880
really cool.
But it happened about 8 O clock,

701
00:35:57,880 --> 00:36:00,200
not 9 O clock.
And I said, well, regardless,

702
00:36:00,200 --> 00:36:02,320
we're an eastern part of the
Eastern Time zone.

703
00:36:02,320 --> 00:36:05,000
If you go out to Louisville, KY,
used to be based out there

704
00:36:05,000 --> 00:36:07,480
flying for UPS for a while back
in the 80s.

705
00:36:08,440 --> 00:36:10,960
That's more in the western side.
So I said regardless, it's it's

706
00:36:11,200 --> 00:36:13,080
early in the morning, it
illuminates.

707
00:36:13,600 --> 00:36:16,560
Three years later, I'm standing
there watching that event with a

708
00:36:16,560 --> 00:36:21,400
woman, and we had a nice crowd
show up for the equinox

709
00:36:21,400 --> 00:36:24,320
alignment over a fallen 8 1/2
foot monolith.

710
00:36:24,320 --> 00:36:27,520
That's about, I think, a time
that is just 6:30 or whatever it

711
00:36:27,520 --> 00:36:29,240
is.
And then we have one more

712
00:36:29,240 --> 00:36:31,920
alignment by the Oracle chamber
just a little bit after that.

713
00:36:31,920 --> 00:36:34,280
So you can watch one alignment
where the sun rises over the

714
00:36:34,280 --> 00:36:36,800
fallen monument.
Then you go to a different place

715
00:36:36,800 --> 00:36:40,080
by the Oracle chamber and you
can see another monolith with a

716
00:36:40,080 --> 00:36:43,360
notch on top and the sun
actually goes through that for

717
00:36:43,360 --> 00:36:46,360
the equinox.
And then about 8 O clock we were

718
00:36:46,360 --> 00:36:49,280
going down to see this event I
just told you about, but this

719
00:36:49,280 --> 00:36:52,120
time it went down there at 7:30.
We went down there and I said to

720
00:36:52,120 --> 00:36:54,360
the lady, you know, we got 1/2
an hour before this event takes

721
00:36:54,360 --> 00:36:55,480
place.
You want to go down to the

722
00:36:55,480 --> 00:36:57,800
building and get warm or you
know, it's kind of chilly out

723
00:36:58,280 --> 00:37:02,520
and everybody else had gone and
she, she goes just talking, you

724
00:37:02,520 --> 00:37:04,520
know, she goes, well, we could
probably, you know, hang out

725
00:37:04,520 --> 00:37:05,480
here or something.
I turned around.

726
00:37:05,480 --> 00:37:09,800
I looked behind me into the
chamber and the the egg was

727
00:37:09,800 --> 00:37:13,120
completely framed on the bottom.
So the bottom of the egg, but

728
00:37:13,120 --> 00:37:16,560
because the bottom and then 30
minutes later you watch that go

729
00:37:16,560 --> 00:37:19,120
into the north of the stone
that's framed and then 30

730
00:37:19,120 --> 00:37:23,120
minutes later that boulder, the
sun should rise over there on in

731
00:37:23,120 --> 00:37:26,120
2034, we're going to have, I'm
sorry, excuse me, that's

732
00:37:26,120 --> 00:37:30,360
incorrect.
Each year on February 1st, which

733
00:37:30,360 --> 00:37:33,080
is a cross quarter day, the sun
rises over that boulder.

734
00:37:33,080 --> 00:37:36,480
So it's a solar alignment from
the astronomical center that was

735
00:37:36,480 --> 00:37:41,240
figured out in the 1970s.
The lunar alignment over it

736
00:37:41,440 --> 00:37:45,040
takes place every 18 1/2 years.
So it's a lunar alignment too.

737
00:37:45,400 --> 00:37:50,040
And that next one on the lunar
miter, standstill moonrise S we

738
00:37:50,040 --> 00:37:53,320
call it.
It will rise over that, right

739
00:37:53,320 --> 00:37:57,240
over that, and it'll be in 2034
that that time period.

740
00:37:57,920 --> 00:38:01,960
And so we'll hopefully be
watching that because until the

741
00:38:01,960 --> 00:38:05,440
forestry project took place, you
can never see the moon or the

742
00:38:05,440 --> 00:38:07,960
sunrise to the east because the
trees are in a way.

743
00:38:07,960 --> 00:38:10,760
So we're going to watch it in
2034 for the first time, you

744
00:38:10,760 --> 00:38:13,200
know, so that should be
exciting.

745
00:38:13,200 --> 00:38:14,480
We'll get some photographs of
it.

746
00:38:15,480 --> 00:38:17,480
But it's also the head of a
serpent.

747
00:38:17,480 --> 00:38:21,080
We think a wall and the serpent
walls were not known about 10

748
00:38:21,080 --> 00:38:24,280
years ago.
The first one I thought was in

749
00:38:24,280 --> 00:38:28,520
2016 in the spring.
It was a short, straight section

750
00:38:28,520 --> 00:38:31,520
of wall under 30 feet.
I'd gone by it many times on my

751
00:38:31,520 --> 00:38:33,080
ATV and the way to my dad's
house.

752
00:38:33,080 --> 00:38:35,040
He lived in the north side of
the property.

753
00:38:37,080 --> 00:38:40,760
He built a house here in 1990
and I was just going by there in

754
00:38:40,760 --> 00:38:42,760
2016.
I was out there maybe collecting

755
00:38:42,760 --> 00:38:45,960
firewood on my ATV and I just
the way to strength the sun

756
00:38:45,960 --> 00:38:48,040
struck a while that particular
day.

757
00:38:48,360 --> 00:38:52,000
As soon as I look weird, I said
it seems to have like a a block

758
00:38:52,000 --> 00:38:55,960
on one side and a tapered body.
And so I got off my ATV, walked

759
00:38:55,960 --> 00:38:58,320
about 60 feet over to it.
I'm looking at it closely like,

760
00:38:58,320 --> 00:39:00,760
wow, this is interesting.
It really does tape it down to a

761
00:39:00,760 --> 00:39:04,360
flat rectangular stone stone
about 3 feet long with little

762
00:39:04,360 --> 00:39:06,680
rounded corners with the bodies
tapered.

763
00:39:06,840 --> 00:39:10,480
And then it has a big block on
the other side facing on the

764
00:39:10,480 --> 00:39:12,640
South side of it.
And it looks like the block

765
00:39:12,640 --> 00:39:15,400
actually fell down.
It looks like it had like a a

766
00:39:15,400 --> 00:39:18,680
cut out in the bottom of that.
It's maybe a block, maybe 2 feet

767
00:39:18,800 --> 00:39:22,120
long made out of granite, I
guess about a foot high.

768
00:39:22,720 --> 00:39:24,680
And I said, I think I'm looking
at the head of a serpent.

769
00:39:24,760 --> 00:39:27,760
I think I'm looking at the body
and I'm looking at a flat tail

770
00:39:27,760 --> 00:39:29,880
here.
And I, I looked it over.

771
00:39:29,880 --> 00:39:31,840
I went on the other side of it.
I'm looking, it's on a Ridge of

772
00:39:31,840 --> 00:39:34,080
bedrock.
And I said it's almost 30 feet

773
00:39:34,080 --> 00:39:35,600
long.
I said this does not look like a

774
00:39:35,600 --> 00:39:38,680
farmer's wall whatsoever.
And I kept staring at it going,

775
00:39:38,680 --> 00:39:40,640
I might just need a effigy of a
serpent.

776
00:39:41,000 --> 00:39:43,200
And I was aware of serpent the
great Sherpent Mountain, Ohio.

777
00:39:43,240 --> 00:39:44,440
You know, I've been aware of
that.

778
00:39:44,520 --> 00:39:48,800
Probably 90 fantastic.
You know, so I never heard of a

779
00:39:48,800 --> 00:39:50,960
serpent wall.
So I showed it to some people

780
00:39:51,640 --> 00:39:54,560
that spring.
And then I started finding a

781
00:39:54,560 --> 00:39:58,320
couple other walls, including
one almost 140 feet long that

782
00:39:58,320 --> 00:40:00,920
was S shape, the beautiful S
shape with a triangular stone

783
00:40:00,920 --> 00:40:04,000
head and A and a rounded boulder
where the tail would be.

784
00:40:04,120 --> 00:40:06,560
And this is a big sweeping
curve.

785
00:40:06,920 --> 00:40:09,640
And we opened up a trail there
in 1974.

786
00:40:09,640 --> 00:40:11,760
We knew the wall was there.
We never paid attention to its

787
00:40:11,760 --> 00:40:14,200
shape.
And then we found another,

788
00:40:14,440 --> 00:40:15,960
another wall that looked like a
serpent.

789
00:40:16,320 --> 00:40:20,160
And that's all in 2016.
And then I at some point I'm

790
00:40:20,160 --> 00:40:24,320
looking at the watch house and
somebody drew to my attention.

791
00:40:24,320 --> 00:40:26,480
It looked a little bit like a
snake.

792
00:40:26,480 --> 00:40:31,800
And there's another little
construction of a wall, series

793
00:40:31,800 --> 00:40:34,360
of stones.
It looked like a spiral of

794
00:40:34,360 --> 00:40:36,240
stones actually.
And we still got to do more

795
00:40:36,240 --> 00:40:39,040
investigation on that.
And they said, I wonder if this

796
00:40:39,040 --> 00:40:42,480
is connected to like a serpent's
tail, where would the head be?

797
00:40:42,480 --> 00:40:44,600
And we're looking back at the
watch house going, oh, my God,

798
00:40:44,600 --> 00:40:47,680
the wall kind of goes down to
the, to this watch house, you

799
00:40:47,680 --> 00:40:50,040
know, and it does kind of look
like a serpent's head.

800
00:40:50,040 --> 00:40:53,160
It's a natural glacial boulder.
We don't know if they did any

801
00:40:53,160 --> 00:40:55,480
modification to it.
They'd have to look at open very

802
00:40:55,480 --> 00:40:57,320
carefully.
But I think it's all natural.

803
00:40:57,680 --> 00:41:00,040
But it's a shape of a head and a
lot of natural things.

804
00:41:00,200 --> 00:41:03,680
Our state logo was the Old Man
in the Mountain in New

805
00:41:03,680 --> 00:41:08,400
Hampshire, which fell down in
2003 and that was beloved by

806
00:41:08,400 --> 00:41:10,880
many people.
It's on the side of AI believe

807
00:41:10,880 --> 00:41:15,400
the state police cars, the state
highway trucks, the plows and

808
00:41:15,400 --> 00:41:17,640
everything on their doors.
They'll have these a little bit.

809
00:41:17,640 --> 00:41:19,400
They'll be the the old man of
the mountain.

810
00:41:19,800 --> 00:41:23,240
That was all natural.
But unfortunately in 2023, one

811
00:41:23,240 --> 00:41:26,680
morning was foggy or cloudy.
And when that when that went

812
00:41:26,680 --> 00:41:29,040
away, people were looking up at
it and the whole thing was gone.

813
00:41:29,400 --> 00:41:31,440
You know, it's very, very sad,
but it was natural.

814
00:41:31,440 --> 00:41:34,160
You know, this boulder is
natural, but it looks like a

815
00:41:34,160 --> 00:41:37,040
serpent.
So upon looking at it even

816
00:41:37,040 --> 00:41:40,360
closer, looking at the, you
know, the wall that goes behind

817
00:41:40,360 --> 00:41:43,520
the boulder, there's so much
woods out there, so much rush.

818
00:41:43,560 --> 00:41:45,080
We couldn't really make escape
out of it.

819
00:41:45,080 --> 00:41:46,280
Very good.
We started looking at it a

820
00:41:46,280 --> 00:41:49,240
little bit closer and it looked
like it was undulating.

821
00:41:49,720 --> 00:41:51,280
And I'm like, Oh my God, look at
that.

822
00:41:51,280 --> 00:41:54,800
The head, the body undulates
it's humps in the wall.

823
00:41:55,080 --> 00:41:58,800
And then it continued up to our
astronomical alignment stones.

824
00:41:58,800 --> 00:42:02,320
We watch the sunrise or set and
goes around and we start.

825
00:42:02,320 --> 00:42:05,720
It took a while to figure this
all out and it went around the

826
00:42:05,720 --> 00:42:10,440
whole about 15 acres of land and
it comes right back down in a

827
00:42:10,440 --> 00:42:14,160
big counterclockwise loop and
right near the front of the

828
00:42:14,640 --> 00:42:16,320
watch house.
We always knew that the wall

829
00:42:16,320 --> 00:42:18,920
there had a hump in it.
We never paid attention to the

830
00:42:18,920 --> 00:42:20,720
hump.
It's just kind of a, you know, a

831
00:42:20,880 --> 00:42:23,080
hump in this wall.
It's all deliberate.

832
00:42:23,280 --> 00:42:26,040
And then the wall and it
continues right in front of the

833
00:42:26,080 --> 00:42:29,080
what would be the watch house
entrance.

834
00:42:29,360 --> 00:42:32,280
And then it goes right in front
of the boulder, which looks

835
00:42:32,280 --> 00:42:34,320
like, and now we know it looks
like the head of a serpent.

836
00:42:34,520 --> 00:42:37,240
And then it does a 90° twist
with a pointed tail.

837
00:42:37,520 --> 00:42:41,040
And Goodwin saw that in the 30s.
I came here the first time in

838
00:42:41,040 --> 00:42:45,840
1955 at 18 months old, and none
of us saw that this thing could

839
00:42:45,840 --> 00:42:49,560
be actually a shape of a, of a
snake, you know, And after we

840
00:42:49,560 --> 00:42:51,960
looked at it, we're like, Oh my
God, you can see the whole thing

841
00:42:51,960 --> 00:42:55,080
here.
Well, back to the OSL.

842
00:42:55,160 --> 00:42:58,200
They were going to take a sample
out of the watch house, but the

843
00:42:58,520 --> 00:43:01,360
one of the ladies from
Brookhaven National Laboratory,

844
00:43:01,360 --> 00:43:03,600
this is the, she actually went
into the chamber with me.

845
00:43:03,840 --> 00:43:05,480
It's kind of tight quarters in
there, too.

846
00:43:05,760 --> 00:43:08,120
She pointed at the back wall and
said the white had actually

847
00:43:08,360 --> 00:43:10,360
either chipmunks or something
had breached there.

848
00:43:10,360 --> 00:43:11,840
You can see the light coming
through, she says.

849
00:43:11,840 --> 00:43:15,600
So this is not going to be, you
know, a good spot to take any

850
00:43:15,760 --> 00:43:17,120
soil.
It's been contaminated.

851
00:43:17,600 --> 00:43:21,200
She was going to try it on the
on the the other side of the

852
00:43:21,200 --> 00:43:22,960
chamber.
And then we realized that part

853
00:43:22,960 --> 00:43:25,640
of the chamber had been repaired
by David Stewart Smith back in

854
00:43:25,640 --> 00:43:27,800
1980.
She could see some plastic and

855
00:43:27,800 --> 00:43:30,280
then the soil over the plastic
where part of a wall repair was

856
00:43:30,280 --> 00:43:32,560
done.
So they decided, they looked

857
00:43:32,560 --> 00:43:36,760
around a bit and they decided to
do what is that hump, the end of

858
00:43:36,760 --> 00:43:41,960
that 25150 foot serpent, which
we actually GPS in 2017, we GPS

859
00:43:41,960 --> 00:43:46,480
Ed it and it's 25150 feet.
So that welcome to right in

860
00:43:46,480 --> 00:43:48,440
front of the again in front of
the watch house and humps.

861
00:43:48,440 --> 00:43:52,440
And they decided to take a core
there and they took the OSL

862
00:43:53,480 --> 00:43:55,960
tool.
They got their dirt and they do

863
00:43:55,960 --> 00:43:58,120
it in a dock room environment
with a tent and everything.

864
00:43:58,120 --> 00:43:59,800
You know, they take the core,
they go in there and they take

865
00:43:59,800 --> 00:44:02,160
the dirt out of it so they can
use the cording tool again.

866
00:44:02,800 --> 00:44:05,720
Well, the result of that was
1400 AD, so that again, that's

867
00:44:05,720 --> 00:44:07,600
before Columbus and that's
pretty historic.

868
00:44:07,600 --> 00:44:11,280
So that wall appears to have
been sitting there before 1400

869
00:44:11,280 --> 00:44:12,880
and then the dirt came along
later.

870
00:44:13,200 --> 00:44:15,400
So that's another way we kind of
dated this.

871
00:44:15,520 --> 00:44:19,840
You know, the site, although it
doesn't give it construction, it

872
00:44:19,840 --> 00:44:22,600
says, well, while we're sitting
here in 1400, it could have been

873
00:44:22,600 --> 00:44:25,400
sitting there 1000 years before
that or hundreds of years before

874
00:44:25,400 --> 00:44:27,320
that.
And that serpent might be the

875
00:44:27,320 --> 00:44:29,040
biggest serpent over tree in the
world.

876
00:44:29,640 --> 00:44:32,600
The Great Serpent Mountain,
Ohio, we were there two years

877
00:44:32,600 --> 00:44:34,080
ago.
And they say that's the biggest

878
00:44:34,080 --> 00:44:37,800
serpent effigy in the world.
It's 13150 feet.

879
00:44:38,800 --> 00:44:43,680
And that may be, it may be the
longest serpent dirt effigy.

880
00:44:43,960 --> 00:44:46,240
And it's dirt built on a stone
platform.

881
00:44:46,680 --> 00:44:49,240
It's an amazing structure.
I mean, it's incredible.

882
00:44:49,360 --> 00:44:53,400
And they say they're 94 of those
all the way out to Iowa built

883
00:44:53,400 --> 00:44:55,440
out of Earth.
So that's not the only one, but

884
00:44:55,440 --> 00:44:57,080
it's the most famous and it is
the biggest.

885
00:44:57,400 --> 00:45:02,240
But our our effort to be in
25150 feet if it ever gets

886
00:45:02,240 --> 00:45:04,200
conclusive evidence, that's what
it is.

887
00:45:05,760 --> 00:45:08,200
That may be the biggest serpent
in the world.

888
00:45:08,200 --> 00:45:10,320
And then because you'll find one
bigger in South America because

889
00:45:10,320 --> 00:45:12,480
serpents and Dragons are
worldwide.

890
00:45:13,040 --> 00:45:15,720
But it might be, you know, it
might be the biggest serpent and

891
00:45:15,720 --> 00:45:19,160
it can represent going around,
coming around right in front of

892
00:45:19,160 --> 00:45:22,000
the mouth of it.
The tail could represent the OR

893
00:45:22,000 --> 00:45:23,640
Boris.
You see it's biting its tail in

894
00:45:23,640 --> 00:45:25,760
the mouth.
But a few of the OR Boris you

895
00:45:25,760 --> 00:45:29,520
pull up online, you'll see they
make pot jewelry.

896
00:45:30,080 --> 00:45:32,480
It goes back to Egypt, Greece
and even Native Americans.

897
00:45:32,480 --> 00:45:34,960
You'll see the paintings and
pottery and stuff like that.

898
00:45:34,960 --> 00:45:39,280
Petroglyphs picture class.
The serpent looks like wrapping

899
00:45:39,280 --> 00:45:42,480
around like biting its tail.
So it's not old world only.

900
00:45:42,480 --> 00:45:46,000
It seems to be over here, and I
think in the old world they say

901
00:45:46,000 --> 00:45:48,600
it and maybe in the new world it
represents a circle of life,

902
00:45:49,000 --> 00:45:51,720
wisdom, wholesomeness, and the
strip it can represent like

903
00:45:51,720 --> 00:45:54,160
protection.
You wonder if this wraps around

904
00:45:54,160 --> 00:45:56,160
the entire, it wraps around the
main site.

905
00:45:56,520 --> 00:46:00,760
It touches every astronomical
mocker stone where the sun rises

906
00:46:00,760 --> 00:46:02,800
or sets over.
You have to have two points for

907
00:46:02,800 --> 00:46:05,440
an alignment, your foresight and
backsight like a gun sight.

908
00:46:05,880 --> 00:46:10,640
And so all the back sites,
excuse me, the foresights, the

909
00:46:10,640 --> 00:46:13,880
ones that are way out there are
part of the body of the serpent

910
00:46:13,880 --> 00:46:17,320
and then it comes back, it does
a hump and it right in front of

911
00:46:17,320 --> 00:46:20,360
the where the mouth would be on
the serpent and the nose, it

912
00:46:20,360 --> 00:46:22,960
goes right up against that.
And then it does a 90° pointed

913
00:46:22,960 --> 00:46:26,240
tail, which is beautiful.
But there's one stone just

914
00:46:26,240 --> 00:46:28,440
beyond the tail.
And I said, why did somebody

915
00:46:28,440 --> 00:46:30,560
leave that stone there?
You know, you got your pointed

916
00:46:30,560 --> 00:46:32,360
tail and then this other stone
beyond it.

917
00:46:32,800 --> 00:46:35,000
Besides, I was kind of annoyed
like why would they do that?

918
00:46:35,000 --> 00:46:36,680
Who did that or has always been
there?

919
00:46:36,960 --> 00:46:39,280
They were thinking about it said
like we found a few more like

920
00:46:39,280 --> 00:46:40,560
that.
We have a tail.

921
00:46:41,160 --> 00:46:43,160
The tail kind of ends, but
beyond it, there's a couple

922
00:46:43,160 --> 00:46:44,920
stones.
We started seeing this repeating

923
00:46:44,920 --> 00:46:48,160
patent.
It might be it represents

924
00:46:48,160 --> 00:46:50,760
rattles on the tail.
Possibly it's a, it's a

925
00:46:50,760 --> 00:46:54,240
possibility.
But that stone there, two years

926
00:46:54,240 --> 00:46:56,520
ago, I was standing on it
because we were walking around

927
00:46:56,520 --> 00:46:58,320
when we were watching the
alignments before the

928
00:46:58,320 --> 00:47:01,720
illumination starting in 2020,
we're just kind of standing in

929
00:47:01,720 --> 00:47:03,760
front of it.
So I decided to stand on that.

930
00:47:03,840 --> 00:47:06,400
What could be a rattle at the
end of the tail and it was a

931
00:47:06,400 --> 00:47:09,040
perfect position to actually
watch the illumination from.

932
00:47:09,400 --> 00:47:11,840
It could be coincidental, but I
don't know if everything's

933
00:47:11,840 --> 00:47:13,400
coincidence.
You know, it looks like that

934
00:47:13,520 --> 00:47:16,400
that stone might represent a
rattle, but it's where you stood

935
00:47:16,400 --> 00:47:19,560
to actually watch some very nice
alignment with that elimination

936
00:47:19,560 --> 00:47:22,800
for that one hour, you know, so.
That.

937
00:47:22,800 --> 00:47:24,720
Structure is pretty pretty
amazing, you know.

938
00:47:25,800 --> 00:47:28,560
Absolutely.
Let let let me ask you this

939
00:47:28,560 --> 00:47:32,160
question.
Did were you ever able to like

940
00:47:32,160 --> 00:47:35,600
call in any of the local tribes?
Did they ever take a look at the

941
00:47:35,600 --> 00:47:39,040
site and and say, hey, this is
either ours or not ours?

942
00:47:39,040 --> 00:47:44,200
Did any of those local tribes
ever make a claim to to the land

943
00:47:44,200 --> 00:47:47,520
and the the the stone structures
that set on it?

944
00:47:48,720 --> 00:47:52,000
That's a great question, David.
I've, we have had Native

945
00:47:52,000 --> 00:47:56,440
Americans over the years and
some of the stories we heard

946
00:47:56,440 --> 00:47:59,320
with Native Americans saying
that the place was taboo was

947
00:47:59,320 --> 00:48:01,840
place that they stayed away from
and we don't know how accurate

948
00:48:01,840 --> 00:48:04,920
that is.
We did have, however, back in

949
00:48:04,920 --> 00:48:07,840
2020, which a lot of stuff was
going on that year with us with

950
00:48:07,840 --> 00:48:12,720
GPS and we're doing all sorts of
cool stuff with the, the OSL and

951
00:48:12,720 --> 00:48:15,680
Lidar and everything.
We had the holster files.

952
00:48:15,680 --> 00:48:17,560
I mentioned Hans Holtzer, the
father paranoia.

953
00:48:17,920 --> 00:48:21,280
The TV still aired on Travel
Channel and Discovery Network

954
00:48:21,600 --> 00:48:23,760
and Hans spent many years at our
site.

955
00:48:23,760 --> 00:48:27,080
He actually did the Lenin Nimoy
show on us inserted from the

956
00:48:27,080 --> 00:48:28,720
second episode.
He directed that.

957
00:48:28,840 --> 00:48:31,640
I was there in 76.
I had forgotten about the fact

958
00:48:31,640 --> 00:48:35,440
he directed Lenin Nimoy's show.
So they did a whole show about

959
00:48:35,720 --> 00:48:38,040
Hans Holter.
He died in 2009, the same year

960
00:48:38,040 --> 00:48:39,680
as my dad did and they were
friends.

961
00:48:40,360 --> 00:48:42,360
He lived in New York in some
Austria originally.

962
00:48:43,440 --> 00:48:45,760
And so they brought in Black
black Eagle for the show.

963
00:48:45,760 --> 00:48:48,320
They brought in Scott Walters
from America on Earth because he

964
00:48:48,320 --> 00:48:51,480
moved over from ABC Disney, his
show America on Earth over to

965
00:48:51,480 --> 00:48:54,560
the Travel Channel and Discovery
Network that runs that whole

966
00:48:54,560 --> 00:48:55,920
thing said bring in Scott
Walters.

967
00:48:55,920 --> 00:48:58,960
He has an audience.
It'll it'll help Dave Schrader,

968
00:48:59,320 --> 00:49:03,560
the host of the Holsophiles, you
know, bring a more audience.

969
00:49:03,800 --> 00:49:05,800
So Scott was there and a bunch
of other people.

970
00:49:05,800 --> 00:49:08,240
I was on it a couple times, but
they brought a black eagle from

971
00:49:08,240 --> 00:49:11,240
Massachusetts and his name is
Darryl Jamieson.

972
00:49:11,960 --> 00:49:14,160
And Darryl had been to the site
back around 2015.

973
00:49:14,160 --> 00:49:16,520
I think he came in with Scott
Walters at that time with a,

974
00:49:16,680 --> 00:49:19,800
with a, a group, you know, an
entourage of probably 20 people,

975
00:49:19,800 --> 00:49:21,640
I think.
And he had an episode on the

976
00:49:21,640 --> 00:49:25,360
site and he said he had a bad
reaction to the site.

977
00:49:25,360 --> 00:49:27,960
It was a beautiful sight.
He goes, but it really affected

978
00:49:27,960 --> 00:49:29,760
me badly because it's not my
people.

979
00:49:30,200 --> 00:49:35,080
And if you go to that particular
episode that aired in 2021 on US

980
00:49:35,360 --> 00:49:38,400
Ancient Evil, he's on there
talking about the site.

981
00:49:39,640 --> 00:49:44,560
He's a chief chief of It's a
group and it's part of the

982
00:49:44,560 --> 00:49:48,520
Wampanoag Indians done it or
Native Americans done in near

983
00:49:48,520 --> 00:49:50,480
Plymouth, Mass, near Cape Cod
area.

984
00:49:50,800 --> 00:49:55,520
But he's a branch of that and he
goes, yeah, so he goes.

985
00:49:56,440 --> 00:49:58,960
I will not go up to film on the
site.

986
00:49:59,840 --> 00:50:03,280
So what they did is they told
them we'll set up a place out

987
00:50:03,280 --> 00:50:05,960
back at the business center
center about halfway between the

988
00:50:05,960 --> 00:50:07,880
watch house and the visitor
center.

989
00:50:07,880 --> 00:50:10,160
And they had the whole thing set
up as a big studio.

990
00:50:10,160 --> 00:50:11,760
It was pretty amazing what they
did for him.

991
00:50:11,760 --> 00:50:13,680
It was really cool.
And while they're getting

992
00:50:13,680 --> 00:50:16,640
everybody had a nice couple a
couple of times to talk to him

993
00:50:16,640 --> 00:50:19,480
anyway.
But so he filmed that night up

994
00:50:19,480 --> 00:50:24,760
there and his his story about
about him, his tribe and

995
00:50:24,760 --> 00:50:28,800
himself, as well as his
experience at our site is on

996
00:50:28,800 --> 00:50:30,560
that.
Ancient evil is the second

997
00:50:30,800 --> 00:50:34,280
second season.
I think it was episode.

998
00:50:34,280 --> 00:50:38,280
I'm going to say 13 perhaps, and
that's the Holts of files.

999
00:50:38,400 --> 00:50:41,280
That's just an example.
Paula Underwood came to us in

1000
00:50:41,280 --> 00:50:43,520
the 1990s.
She was Iroquois.

1001
00:50:44,400 --> 00:50:48,120
Her ancestors are from the Great
Lakes region into New York, kind

1002
00:50:48,120 --> 00:50:50,600
of, but she lived in California.
You know, her family must have

1003
00:50:50,600 --> 00:50:52,080
moved out there quite a while
ago.

1004
00:50:52,080 --> 00:50:55,080
She was an IBM I believe
consultant, Very, very

1005
00:50:55,520 --> 00:51:00,120
intelligent woman and she
learned her family's past 10,000

1006
00:51:00,120 --> 00:51:02,960
years from her dad.
I believe it was in her book

1007
00:51:02,960 --> 00:51:05,600
came out called The Walking
People in the 1990s and we

1008
00:51:05,600 --> 00:51:10,240
became a friend of the lady that
wrote our 1996 souvenir guide.

1009
00:51:10,400 --> 00:51:15,560
They became very friendly.
In fact, our Joanne, who wrote

1010
00:51:15,560 --> 00:51:19,280
our guide actually traveled to
some of her talks in Texas and

1011
00:51:19,280 --> 00:51:20,800
different places around the
country.

1012
00:51:21,000 --> 00:51:22,720
And then she brought it to a
place twice.

1013
00:51:23,120 --> 00:51:26,680
And it says in there that her
ancestry talks about these

1014
00:51:26,680 --> 00:51:30,200
chambers, these stone structures
built on hills, probably in New

1015
00:51:30,200 --> 00:51:32,440
York perhaps.
And there are many of these

1016
00:51:32,440 --> 00:51:36,040
structures in New York that were
not built by their people.

1017
00:51:36,040 --> 00:51:37,680
They were built by these
strangers, you know.

1018
00:51:37,680 --> 00:51:40,440
So there's another episode of
maybe not the Native Americans

1019
00:51:40,440 --> 00:51:43,800
saying this was not ours.
You know, these are not, these

1020
00:51:43,800 --> 00:51:46,400
are strange people who built
these stone structures.

1021
00:51:46,720 --> 00:51:50,760
And she knew nothing about the
Northeastern structures I think

1022
00:51:50,760 --> 00:51:54,560
until the 1990s.
And when she became aware of it,

1023
00:51:54,560 --> 00:51:57,880
maybe from ATV show or maybe she
read something, I think of what

1024
00:51:57,880 --> 00:51:59,520
the story is.
There is a story where she first

1025
00:51:59,520 --> 00:52:01,840
heard of us and also the other
structures.

1026
00:52:02,040 --> 00:52:04,800
And she was quite not only
shocked but surprised because

1027
00:52:04,800 --> 00:52:07,920
there are 10,000 years of oral
tradition that her dad and I

1028
00:52:07,920 --> 00:52:10,200
guess he had to learn it two
different ways.

1029
00:52:10,200 --> 00:52:12,600
So if he'd have an accurate
story, I guess according to

1030
00:52:12,600 --> 00:52:16,280
what, you know, what we did,
that this, these stone

1031
00:52:16,280 --> 00:52:20,040
structures do exist in the East,
you know, And so that fits into

1032
00:52:20,040 --> 00:52:23,160
her ancient oral tradition, but
she didn't think it was her.

1033
00:52:23,200 --> 00:52:25,720
That's fascinating, so.
A little, a little bit.

1034
00:52:25,720 --> 00:52:28,800
So that's fascinating.
Right.

1035
00:52:28,800 --> 00:52:30,880
That's fascinating because the
Native Americans are basically

1036
00:52:30,880 --> 00:52:33,400
saying we know about it, but
it's not ours.

1037
00:52:33,440 --> 00:52:36,520
Sort of a.
Thing yeah, you know, we, we

1038
00:52:36,520 --> 00:52:39,680
certainly welcome other, you
know, other maybe Native

1039
00:52:39,680 --> 00:52:41,680
Americans with a oral
traditions.

1040
00:52:41,680 --> 00:52:44,040
Sometimes they'll share it with
you, you know, and if they do,

1041
00:52:44,040 --> 00:52:46,280
that's really nice.
And then it might add to it.

1042
00:52:46,280 --> 00:52:48,920
I did meet another Native
American from the Cape Cod area

1043
00:52:49,360 --> 00:52:53,560
and he probably was Wampanoag
too, I think the Plymouth, Mass

1044
00:52:53,560 --> 00:52:55,920
area.
And she goes my, my oral

1045
00:52:55,920 --> 00:52:59,000
tradition talks about, I believe
the Vikings coming into the Cape

1046
00:52:59,000 --> 00:53:03,120
Cod area 1000 years ago.
And we know that the Viking

1047
00:53:03,120 --> 00:53:04,840
accent was found out in Cape
Cod.

1048
00:53:05,320 --> 00:53:08,120
There was when the pilgrims
landed out on the Cape, on the

1049
00:53:08,120 --> 00:53:11,600
Cape Cod on, you know, further
out on the arm of Cape Cod out

1050
00:53:11,600 --> 00:53:13,920
there.
They actually were, they were

1051
00:53:13,920 --> 00:53:15,160
hungry.
They thought they were digging

1052
00:53:15,160 --> 00:53:19,480
for bushels of buried con, I
guess, or maize, you know, and

1053
00:53:19,480 --> 00:53:22,480
they found skeletons with
reddish or blondish hair.

1054
00:53:22,480 --> 00:53:23,880
And I don't know how accurate
that story.

1055
00:53:23,880 --> 00:53:27,240
Some people suggested there were
burials of Vikings in that area.

1056
00:53:27,680 --> 00:53:30,080
There's also the Bash River on
Cape Cod.

1057
00:53:30,640 --> 00:53:34,080
It was some back in the 40s.
I think Harvard University was

1058
00:53:34,080 --> 00:53:36,120
involved with that excavation
and study.

1059
00:53:36,120 --> 00:53:39,120
They thought that they found
where a Viking or some sort of

1060
00:53:39,240 --> 00:53:40,800
ancient boat could have been
brought in there.

1061
00:53:41,120 --> 00:53:43,400
They found the remains where it
would be brought in, probably

1062
00:53:43,400 --> 00:53:46,760
for the winter or for repairs.
It was like a dry dock area.

1063
00:53:47,320 --> 00:53:49,960
And we got all the reports in my
dad's files.

1064
00:53:49,960 --> 00:53:53,920
I don't know, what if the jury
was, if the jury's still out on

1065
00:53:53,920 --> 00:53:56,160
that or what?
They decided that no, that's

1066
00:53:56,160 --> 00:54:01,000
from like the 1700s blah, blah,
blah, or 1600s, but not 1000

1067
00:54:01,000 --> 00:54:05,320
years ago, you know, but, but so
the Vikings may have made it

1068
00:54:05,320 --> 00:54:08,560
into New England.
The Maine Coon cat.

1069
00:54:08,560 --> 00:54:10,760
My dad had a couple that's a
state cat of Maine.

1070
00:54:11,120 --> 00:54:13,440
It's a half breed.
It's actually a Norwegian force

1071
00:54:13,440 --> 00:54:17,560
cat, an attack on extinct.
So DNA showed that and it's

1072
00:54:17,560 --> 00:54:20,960
another possibility indicating
that the Vikings may have made,

1073
00:54:21,280 --> 00:54:23,680
they say after the Viking
period, after they get into

1074
00:54:24,040 --> 00:54:27,680
because we visited Alonzo Meadow
three years ago.

1075
00:54:27,680 --> 00:54:29,360
We went up to Alonzo Meadow in
Newfoundland.

1076
00:54:30,280 --> 00:54:33,520
They say that after the Viking
period around 10:50 AD, the

1077
00:54:33,720 --> 00:54:37,000
Greenlanders kept coming down
until around 1400 and then the

1078
00:54:37,000 --> 00:54:40,560
climate turns colder.
Greenland was to ban and Iceland

1079
00:54:40,560 --> 00:54:42,600
was never banned.
If there's a Gulf Stream kicks

1080
00:54:42,600 --> 00:54:44,000
in there in Iceland, it was
pretty cool.

1081
00:54:44,000 --> 00:54:45,920
We'd never been to Greenland,
but the story is that the

1082
00:54:45,920 --> 00:54:49,200
Greenlanders came for 400 years
after leaf exit into the New

1083
00:54:49,200 --> 00:54:50,880
World.
I don't think they just went to

1084
00:54:50,880 --> 00:54:52,800
Newfoundland and stopped.
I think they probably went

1085
00:54:52,800 --> 00:54:56,080
further West and further South
possibly just, you have to find

1086
00:54:56,080 --> 00:54:58,840
the evidence to support that,
you know, And they talked about

1087
00:54:58,840 --> 00:55:02,280
Irish cold months and the Irish
quality monster trying to state

1088
00:55:02,280 --> 00:55:06,080
persecution, you know, and they
were, some of them had a band in

1089
00:55:06,080 --> 00:55:09,360
Ireland and they headed up to
Iceland, in the Faroe Islands in

1090
00:55:09,360 --> 00:55:12,160
Iceland and then maybe over
possibly towards Greenland.

1091
00:55:12,480 --> 00:55:15,120
And the Vikings in the sagas
talk about bumping into these

1092
00:55:15,120 --> 00:55:18,680
white real men, I think all the
way over to into Canada.

1093
00:55:20,080 --> 00:55:23,600
And there's some debate over
that, but Mr. Goodwin, the guy

1094
00:55:23,600 --> 00:55:26,640
that worked on our site, I
mentioned in 1937 and it and

1095
00:55:26,760 --> 00:55:29,080
then he worked on it and he died
in 1950.

1096
00:55:29,080 --> 00:55:32,320
And he wrote four books.
Last book he wrote, he was very

1097
00:55:32,320 --> 00:55:34,120
sick.
So it wasn't well put together.

1098
00:55:34,440 --> 00:55:37,560
It was called the the Ruins of
Great Ireland and New England.

1099
00:55:37,560 --> 00:55:41,440
We put forth the idea that the
Irish monks were escaping Viking

1100
00:55:41,440 --> 00:55:46,440
persecution and they moved
inland and some of the sideways

1101
00:55:46,440 --> 00:55:49,320
talk about this about romance
and the Viking, the green and

1102
00:55:49,320 --> 00:55:50,880
Sagar.
I think the Eric Sagar.

1103
00:55:51,720 --> 00:55:55,360
So it might be true, but he felt
our sight was like one of the

1104
00:55:55,360 --> 00:55:59,400
main places, almost like, you
know, the the almost like I was

1105
00:55:59,400 --> 00:56:03,240
like the cathedral of because
they found 15 other places

1106
00:56:03,240 --> 00:56:06,120
around New England, like in
Hoppington, Mass with a Boston

1107
00:56:06,120 --> 00:56:08,240
Marathon stats.
There's a chambers.

1108
00:56:08,240 --> 00:56:12,240
There's one in Acton, Mass,
Upton, Mass.

1109
00:56:12,480 --> 00:56:14,960
And today we know there's
probably, there's probably 50

1110
00:56:14,960 --> 00:56:16,640
different locations with
structures.

1111
00:56:16,840 --> 00:56:20,280
But back in Goodwin's day, he
only knew of about 16 sites

1112
00:56:20,280 --> 00:56:22,000
besides ours.
And he thought these were a

1113
00:56:22,000 --> 00:56:27,000
little, little smaller.
What would you call it?

1114
00:56:27,000 --> 00:56:30,080
Communities of Irish monks and
they're trying to Christianize

1115
00:56:30,080 --> 00:56:32,360
Native Americans.
You're also trying to avoid

1116
00:56:32,560 --> 00:56:35,920
being captured by the Vikings.
And our site was like the main

1117
00:56:35,920 --> 00:56:39,120
site where like you call it like
not the like one of the higher

1118
00:56:39,120 --> 00:56:42,480
ranking priest would stay.
And he thought our site was a

1119
00:56:42,480 --> 00:56:45,720
living site, a religious site,
but also a living site.

1120
00:56:46,400 --> 00:56:48,960
Today we think it's more of a
ceremonial site, not really a

1121
00:56:48,960 --> 00:56:51,400
living site per SE where people
live, you know, they lived a way

1122
00:56:51,520 --> 00:56:54,320
around here, you know, but not
on the main site for a couple

1123
00:56:54,320 --> 00:56:56,520
different reasons.
So the Irish quality monk thing,

1124
00:56:56,520 --> 00:57:00,240
it's still kind of out there.
Our site predates that by that

1125
00:57:00,240 --> 00:57:02,240
time period for almost 3000
years.

1126
00:57:02,240 --> 00:57:04,160
So we don't think it was the
Irish quality monks building our

1127
00:57:04,160 --> 00:57:05,520
site.
And that's because of the

1128
00:57:05,520 --> 00:57:08,160
technology and everything we've
learned since Goodwin's day.

1129
00:57:08,400 --> 00:57:10,440
But he died thinking the Irish
Republic, the monks built it

1130
00:57:10,440 --> 00:57:13,000
when he died in 1950.
So the Irish monks are in there,

1131
00:57:13,000 --> 00:57:15,600
the Vikings are in there.
His first thoughts when he saw

1132
00:57:15,600 --> 00:57:18,840
the site in 36, he thought it
was, he thought it was actually

1133
00:57:18,840 --> 00:57:21,440
a Viking site.
But then he realized Vikings

1134
00:57:21,440 --> 00:57:23,040
didn't build these stone
structures like this.

1135
00:57:23,040 --> 00:57:26,280
He sod houses kind of a
different building material.

1136
00:57:27,560 --> 00:57:31,360
So he changed his whole idea
over the course of 37 and 38.

1137
00:57:31,360 --> 00:57:35,520
I think he became a Irish,
called him up, you know, I

1138
00:57:35,720 --> 00:57:38,040
supporter, I guess, Yeah.
Of that theory, you know.

1139
00:57:39,080 --> 00:57:41,320
Got you.
Dennis, let me let me ask you

1140
00:57:41,320 --> 00:57:43,920
this question and then what I
want to do is maybe go through a

1141
00:57:43,920 --> 00:57:47,800
couple of pictures and see if
you can kind of elaborate on

1142
00:57:47,800 --> 00:57:48,800
those.
Is that OK?

1143
00:57:48,800 --> 00:57:50,120
Great.
Absolutely.

1144
00:57:51,320 --> 00:57:55,360
So in, in, in your estimation
and, and the estimation of, of

1145
00:57:55,360 --> 00:57:58,320
other scholars and other people
who've done work out there on

1146
00:57:58,320 --> 00:58:02,480
that site.
What are we know that it's about

1147
00:58:02,480 --> 00:58:08,040
4000 years old.
Do we have any ideas on where

1148
00:58:08,520 --> 00:58:11,760
like if you had to hedge your
bets, hey, these folks came from

1149
00:58:11,760 --> 00:58:14,200
this place and built this.
Where do you think those folks

1150
00:58:14,200 --> 00:58:16,600
are coming from, Dennis?
Right.

1151
00:58:16,600 --> 00:58:20,600
That's an excellent question.
We've been asked that for years.

1152
00:58:21,400 --> 00:58:25,200
If they were coming across the
Atlantic Ocean, the the most

1153
00:58:25,840 --> 00:58:29,600
evidence supporting that would
be from the Iberian Peninsula,

1154
00:58:29,600 --> 00:58:34,160
Spain and Portugal.
And Barry Fell because of Barry

1155
00:58:34,160 --> 00:58:37,120
Fell's work, and it's his work
still very controversial.

1156
00:58:38,040 --> 00:58:42,560
The mainstream archaeologists
still basically criticize it 50

1157
00:58:42,560 --> 00:58:45,720
years later.
But the the Phoenician writing,

1158
00:58:45,720 --> 00:58:48,280
the Libyan writing and the
Celtic writing, the style of it

1159
00:58:48,280 --> 00:58:50,680
was he called Iberic, which is
Spain and Portugal.

1160
00:58:51,080 --> 00:58:53,040
The Kelts were in there.
The Phoenicians were in Spain

1161
00:58:53,040 --> 00:58:56,200
and Portugal and the Libyans
from Libya were in there.

1162
00:58:56,200 --> 00:58:57,960
It's a melting pot.
There were other people in there

1163
00:58:57,960 --> 00:58:59,960
too.
And he felt that they were like

1164
00:58:59,960 --> 00:59:02,320
a melting pot and that they
jumped off from that place to

1165
00:59:02,320 --> 00:59:05,480
the New World, both to South
America and into Central into

1166
00:59:05,480 --> 00:59:08,920
North America.
According to Barry Fell, I I

1167
00:59:08,920 --> 00:59:12,440
have seen the comparisons of
structures like the, for

1168
00:59:12,440 --> 00:59:14,120
instance, AV hub the V had on
our site.

1169
00:59:14,120 --> 00:59:17,760
You must have saw that little
structure with a loop, one kind

1170
00:59:17,760 --> 00:59:20,880
of a wedge shape or V shape,
yeah.

1171
00:59:21,600 --> 00:59:23,360
We'll show those later here.
Yeah, yeah.

1172
00:59:23,640 --> 00:59:27,360
We can do that, yeah.
There's a lot of orientation of

1173
00:59:27,360 --> 00:59:30,960
the structure, the size of the
structure and the shape of the

1174
00:59:30,960 --> 00:59:33,480
structure.
You can only have so many

1175
00:59:33,480 --> 00:59:36,400
coincidences, but we have like
the East West chamber, the V

1176
00:59:36,400 --> 00:59:41,200
Hut, the including the the
chamber and ruins and some of

1177
00:59:41,200 --> 00:59:44,440
the other stone work there.
Structures are very, very

1178
00:59:44,440 --> 00:59:47,320
similar to what you can find
over in European, Western

1179
00:59:47,320 --> 00:59:50,400
European sites, whether it's in
Spain, Portugal, Ireland,

1180
00:59:50,400 --> 00:59:53,120
England, Scotland, you know,
Wales, and we've been to a lot

1181
00:59:53,120 --> 00:59:55,680
of those places over in Europe,
including Malta.

1182
00:59:56,000 --> 00:59:58,480
That's a little different, you
know, but I would say Western

1183
00:59:58,480 --> 01:00:00,920
Europe, there's so many
similarities to what we have in

1184
01:00:00,920 --> 01:00:04,440
the Northeast and I.
I think there's 800 locations in

1185
01:00:04,440 --> 01:00:07,680
the northeast, and a location
can have one chamber like

1186
01:00:07,680 --> 01:00:11,360
Danville, NH or Windham, NH or
Plaistow, or you can have a site

1187
01:00:11,360 --> 01:00:15,360
like ours, multiple structures
at one site over 106 acres.

1188
01:00:15,960 --> 01:00:19,160
But amazingly, 10 years ago in
16, a lot of stuff was

1189
01:00:19,160 --> 01:00:20,800
happening.
We're finding both windows,

1190
01:00:20,800 --> 01:00:23,960
these beautiful windows and
Serpentine walls, and we're

1191
01:00:23,960 --> 01:00:25,560
finding more of those cord
slabs.

1192
01:00:26,600 --> 01:00:31,360
But we are finding, oh, what was
the point I was trying to get

1193
01:00:31,400 --> 01:00:33,680
to?
I'm not breaking any news here.

1194
01:00:33,880 --> 01:00:36,040
We live in spiritually perilous
times.

1195
01:00:36,040 --> 01:00:38,800
It seems like danger is all
around us or our family

1196
01:00:38,800 --> 01:00:41,920
spiritually all the time.
But our God hasn't left us

1197
01:00:41,920 --> 01:00:44,720
defenseless.
We read in Ephesians chapter 6

1198
01:00:44,720 --> 01:00:48,160
verse 17 and take the helmet of
salvation and the sword of the

1199
01:00:48,160 --> 01:00:49,760
spirit, which is the word of
God.

1200
01:00:50,080 --> 01:00:52,880
So in our spiritual battles, the
scriptures are our sword.

1201
01:00:53,400 --> 01:00:56,480
But just like real swords, not
all Canon of scripture are made

1202
01:00:56,480 --> 01:00:58,040
equal.
You need to make sure that

1203
01:00:58,040 --> 01:00:59,320
you're entering the.
Battle with the.

1204
01:00:59,320 --> 01:01:01,560
Right gear.
With that thought in mind, Drew

1205
01:01:01,560 --> 01:01:04,360
Brownie and others have been
working on a project to bring

1206
01:01:04,360 --> 01:01:07,000
you what is now being called the
Restored version of the

1207
01:01:07,000 --> 01:01:09,640
Scriptures.
So what is the restored version

1208
01:01:09,640 --> 01:01:12,080
of the Scriptures?
The restored version is the most

1209
01:01:12,080 --> 01:01:14,960
accurate, exhaustive,
comfortable to read the triple

1210
01:01:14,960 --> 01:01:18,160
combination ever made.
It was designed to honor Joseph

1211
01:01:18,160 --> 01:01:21,840
Smith's revelatory words and
edits through clean and accurate

1212
01:01:21,840 --> 01:01:25,040
Joseph approved texts.
The restored version contains

1213
01:01:25,040 --> 01:01:28,760
each book found in the modern
LDS triple combination that is

1214
01:01:28,760 --> 01:01:31,440
the Book of Mormon, the Doctrine
and Covenants, and the Pearl.

1215
01:01:31,440 --> 01:01:35,360
Great price, except it has
Joseph's original inspired text

1216
01:01:35,600 --> 01:01:36,840
and an.
Easy to read.

1217
01:01:36,840 --> 01:01:39,840
Format it restores there was the
Lectures on Faith, which were

1218
01:01:39,840 --> 01:01:44,040
removed in 1921.
It adds an additional 87

1219
01:01:44,040 --> 01:01:47,960
uncanonized revelations of
Joseph Smith, as well as 33

1220
01:01:47,960 --> 01:01:51,400
revelations received by Brigham
Young, John Taylor, and Wilfred

1221
01:01:51,400 --> 01:01:54,880
Woodruff and other members of
the Quorum of the 12, each copy

1222
01:01:54,880 --> 01:01:56,960
of the restored version is built
to last.

1223
01:01:57,160 --> 01:02:00,960
These scriptures look good, feel
comfortable, and are bound to

1224
01:02:00,960 --> 01:02:03,840
last.
The restored version uses cover

1225
01:02:03,840 --> 01:02:07,520
material that is ideal for for
high quality books that is both

1226
01:02:07,520 --> 01:02:11,160
hard wearing and soft and should
handle many years of use.

1227
01:02:11,400 --> 01:02:14,280
It has beautiful gold and silver
gilded edges.

1228
01:02:14,600 --> 01:02:18,440
It has sturdy, flexible binding,
making it so the book may

1229
01:02:18,440 --> 01:02:20,840
comfortably and safely be laid
on a desk.

1230
01:02:21,440 --> 01:02:25,640
It has reliable paper that is
very thin, yet sturdy and thick

1231
01:02:25,640 --> 01:02:28,600
enough that it's hard to see
through, and comes with marking

1232
01:02:28,600 --> 01:02:30,880
ribbons so that you never lose
your reading place.

1233
01:02:31,280 --> 01:02:33,640
Each copy of the restored
version are built with the

1234
01:02:33,640 --> 01:02:37,280
intent of lasting for years and
years, just like the LDS

1235
01:02:37,280 --> 01:02:38,920
versions of the triple
combination.

1236
01:02:39,840 --> 01:02:42,440
You might be asking yourself,
what are the benefits of owning

1237
01:02:42,440 --> 01:02:44,800
your own copy of the restored
version of the scriptures?

1238
01:02:45,080 --> 01:02:48,560
Well, how's this for starters?
Number one, the spiritual

1239
01:02:48,560 --> 01:02:50,760
significance.
The restored version contains

1240
01:02:50,840 --> 01:02:54,520
every known revelation of Joseph
Smith as well as those of his

1241
01:02:54,520 --> 01:02:57,440
first successors, the historical
significance.

1242
01:02:57,600 --> 01:03:00,280
While the foundational text for
the Restored Version is the

1243
01:03:00,280 --> 01:03:03,720
latest edition of each book of
Scripture that Joseph approved,

1244
01:03:03,960 --> 01:03:07,040
the Restored Version carefully
documents through footnotes,

1245
01:03:07,320 --> 01:03:11,280
italicized texts, every
substantive change made by

1246
01:03:11,280 --> 01:03:15,160
Joseph or his editing committee,
making the Restored Version a

1247
01:03:15,160 --> 01:03:17,000
truly original set of
Scriptures.

1248
01:03:17,360 --> 01:03:21,280
Formatting Significance.
The Restored Version contains no

1249
01:03:21,280 --> 01:03:25,160
columns, no cumbersome Croft
references, and no paragraph

1250
01:03:25,160 --> 01:03:28,640
breaks at every verse just like
the original, and has been

1251
01:03:28,640 --> 01:03:32,200
improved with many verse numbers
in the paragraphs, which provide

1252
01:03:32,200 --> 01:03:34,920
a smooth, seamless reading
experience that makes it.

1253
01:03:34,920 --> 01:03:37,840
Easy to lose.
Track of time while reading and

1254
01:03:37,840 --> 01:03:41,320
makes it easier to see the
large, larger narrative within

1255
01:03:41,320 --> 01:03:44,760
the scriptures.
It is also the first original

1256
01:03:44,760 --> 01:03:48,360
editions published that can be
used with study guides, since

1257
01:03:48,360 --> 01:03:51,440
almost all of the other
originals don't have verses in

1258
01:03:51,440 --> 01:03:53,640
it.
The restored version offers a

1259
01:03:53,640 --> 01:03:57,680
pure offers pure doctrine in the
most historically transparent

1260
01:03:57,680 --> 01:04:01,480
Mormon triple combination ever
made with a modern format that

1261
01:04:01,480 --> 01:04:04,360
provides for a smooth, seamless
and spiritual read.

1262
01:04:04,800 --> 01:04:09,800
Now to get your copy today, just
go to www.restoredscriptures.com

1263
01:04:10,040 --> 01:04:12,240
or click the link in this
episode show notes.

1264
01:04:12,320 --> 01:04:16,520
Again, that is
www.restoredscriptures.com or

1265
01:04:16,520 --> 01:04:19,520
click the link in this episode
show notes and order your copy

1266
01:04:19,520 --> 01:04:22,480
today and arm you and your
family with the word of God.

1267
01:04:22,680 --> 01:04:24,640
Now let's get back to our
conversation.

1268
01:04:25,000 --> 01:04:30,160
At one site over 106 acres, but
amazingly 10 years ago in 16, a

1269
01:04:30,160 --> 01:04:32,400
lot of stuff was happening.
We were finding both windows,

1270
01:04:32,400 --> 01:04:35,520
these beautiful windows and
Serpentine walls, and we're

1271
01:04:35,520 --> 01:04:37,120
finding more of those cord
slabs.

1272
01:04:38,160 --> 01:04:42,120
But we were finding, what was
the point?

1273
01:04:42,120 --> 01:04:45,200
I was trying to get to.
Yeah, a town in North

1274
01:04:45,200 --> 01:04:47,240
Stonington, CT.
A book came out called

1275
01:04:47,240 --> 01:04:50,400
Ceremonial Stonework in that one
town in North Stonington, down

1276
01:04:50,400 --> 01:04:53,760
near the coast near Mystic,
Connecticut, in Gumtree, Wamps,

1277
01:04:53,760 --> 01:04:55,360
just down the road, about 10
miles.

1278
01:04:55,360 --> 01:04:57,400
It's right near the Navy base in
Groton, CT.

1279
01:04:58,040 --> 01:05:01,240
That one, that one town in this
book, as I'm looking at it at a

1280
01:05:01,240 --> 01:05:03,760
meeting in the Europe Meeting,
2017.

1281
01:05:03,760 --> 01:05:05,760
And I didn't know if we had any
other circuit walls in the

1282
01:05:05,760 --> 01:05:07,000
northeast.
I don't know if we had any

1283
01:05:07,000 --> 01:05:09,880
windows and some of these other
features.

1284
01:05:10,440 --> 01:05:13,320
I looked at the book before the
gentleman spoke on this book

1285
01:05:13,320 --> 01:05:14,040
table.
You could buy it.

1286
01:05:14,120 --> 01:05:16,120
You know, he had a whole bunch
of books for sale from different

1287
01:05:16,120 --> 01:05:19,520
authors and different speakers.
And I'm like, wow, 8000

1288
01:05:19,520 --> 01:05:23,800
structures, 270 photographs in
this book, 25 categories of

1289
01:05:23,800 --> 01:05:25,280
structures.
And I thought this has to be the

1290
01:05:25,280 --> 01:05:27,320
whole northeast.
It's going to be part of Canada.

1291
01:05:27,680 --> 01:05:29,720
And as I get into it, it's town
of North Stonington.

1292
01:05:29,720 --> 01:05:33,040
That one town of North
Stonington has 8000 structures.

1293
01:05:33,320 --> 01:05:38,440
It has 25 categories, and one of
them was a serpent wall.

1294
01:05:38,960 --> 01:05:42,760
The serpent walls there are #400
in that one ton from 30 feet up

1295
01:05:42,760 --> 01:05:46,320
to 300 feet.
The average is about about about

1296
01:05:46,320 --> 01:05:49,200
90 feet long.
They're linear, rectilinear

1297
01:05:49,200 --> 01:05:52,160
shape, S shape.
I'm like, they have serpent

1298
01:05:52,160 --> 01:05:55,720
walls here.
Amazing because we had no idea

1299
01:05:55,720 --> 01:05:57,160
if anybody else had serpent
walls.

1300
01:05:57,480 --> 01:06:00,280
That really kind of confirmed.
And just standing there looking

1301
01:06:00,280 --> 01:06:03,280
at that before he spoke.
And then I see windows and we

1302
01:06:03,280 --> 01:06:06,120
had found about a dozen.
We have 36 windows up there,

1303
01:06:06,120 --> 01:06:08,480
including pentagonal escape
windows in the stone walls

1304
01:06:08,480 --> 01:06:10,360
themselves.
And there's the windows.

1305
01:06:10,360 --> 01:06:11,680
That's another category, you
know.

1306
01:06:11,960 --> 01:06:16,120
So it's just amazing that one
one site can have 8000

1307
01:06:16,120 --> 01:06:19,000
structures, another site could
have just a chamber and there

1308
01:06:19,000 --> 01:06:22,080
are 800 locations.
So, so it's, you know, it's not,

1309
01:06:22,280 --> 01:06:26,000
we used to hear Dave, I remember
in the 70s and I was there maybe

1310
01:06:26,000 --> 01:06:29,080
in the 80s.
More, more criticism, more

1311
01:06:29,080 --> 01:06:32,200
controversy, more skepticism,
particularly by mainstream say,

1312
01:06:32,200 --> 01:06:35,360
well, if this was a bunch of
ancient stone builders building

1313
01:06:35,360 --> 01:06:39,200
this site up here, why aren't
there other structures anywhere

1314
01:06:39,200 --> 01:06:40,720
else?
You know, and we would hear that

1315
01:06:40,720 --> 01:06:43,280
I said, well, First off, back
then they knew of about 200 back

1316
01:06:43,280 --> 01:06:45,440
in the 1970s.
Obviously they don't know.

1317
01:06:45,520 --> 01:06:48,000
They're ignorant of the facts.
You know, there are other

1318
01:06:48,000 --> 01:06:51,760
structures, but today with about
800 locations with literally

1319
01:06:51,760 --> 01:06:54,800
thousands of these of this
stonework across the Northeast.

1320
01:06:55,040 --> 01:06:57,160
And it's not just New England,
New York, it actually goes out

1321
01:06:57,160 --> 01:06:59,720
to Virginia.
The Serpentine walls go all the

1322
01:06:59,720 --> 01:07:02,960
way out to California, Weed, CA
by Mount Chester.

1323
01:07:02,960 --> 01:07:05,600
They're up in Winnipeg, near
Denver, they're in Alabama.

1324
01:07:06,040 --> 01:07:08,680
It goes right across the nation.
So some of our beaches actually

1325
01:07:08,680 --> 01:07:11,480
go across the whole continent,
you know, because you go to

1326
01:07:11,480 --> 01:07:12,520
Mexico.
That's the whole thing with

1327
01:07:12,520 --> 01:07:14,720
Queso Cuado and Cuoco Khan and
all of that.

1328
01:07:14,760 --> 01:07:18,440
You know, we did down there too.
I, I don't know, we don't the

1329
01:07:18,440 --> 01:07:21,720
jury, I mean, the jury still up.
I think though, Native Americans

1330
01:07:21,720 --> 01:07:23,320
were here in New Hampshire
13,000 years.

1331
01:07:23,320 --> 01:07:24,520
So you have to look at them
first.

1332
01:07:24,800 --> 01:07:27,840
But then you, you know,
mainstream says they didn't

1333
01:07:27,840 --> 01:07:29,480
build big stone work in the
Northeast.

1334
01:07:29,480 --> 01:07:32,760
Maybe run, maybe this is Native
American and we're looking at it

1335
01:07:32,760 --> 01:07:35,160
incorrectly because we've been
told that Native Americans

1336
01:07:35,160 --> 01:07:37,560
didn't build stone work.
However, I think there is a

1337
01:07:37,560 --> 01:07:39,600
connection to the old world.
You know, he mentioned the

1338
01:07:39,920 --> 01:07:42,320
inscriptions.
There's place names all over the

1339
01:07:42,320 --> 01:07:44,920
New England mountains, rivers,
valleys and gorges that are not

1340
01:07:44,920 --> 01:07:48,360
only Native American, like
Merrimac, Lake Memphomagogue,

1341
01:07:48,760 --> 01:07:51,520
Mount Monadnock, and there's so
many others that are not only

1342
01:07:51,520 --> 01:07:55,480
Native American, but they're
also Gaelic or Celtic with the

1343
01:07:55,480 --> 01:07:56,960
same word, with the same
meaning.

1344
01:07:57,280 --> 01:08:00,440
So people might say, well,
that's purely coincidental, but

1345
01:08:00,440 --> 01:08:03,480
the word sounds the same.
It means the same, but that's a

1346
01:08:03,480 --> 01:08:05,840
coincidence.
So I think there is a connection

1347
01:08:05,840 --> 01:08:08,840
to the Old World at this point,
you know, So I don't know if

1348
01:08:08,840 --> 01:08:12,240
I'll know before I pass away
someday the truth.

1349
01:08:13,400 --> 01:08:16,600
I was hoping we'd, we would have
more of an answer before my dad

1350
01:08:16,600 --> 01:08:19,359
died in 2009.
And they're a lot of around that

1351
01:08:19,359 --> 01:08:21,439
time, a lot of our researchers
had passed away.

1352
01:08:21,439 --> 01:08:23,319
James Whittall and many, so many
others.

1353
01:08:23,319 --> 01:08:27,680
You know, they were the, they
were basically the, the people

1354
01:08:27,680 --> 01:08:30,160
at the beginning, kind of, you
know, Goodwin is really at the

1355
01:08:30,160 --> 01:08:32,880
beginning.
And then later, you know, my dad

1356
01:08:32,880 --> 01:08:35,399
and Franklin, president of the
Connecticut oncological side,

1357
01:08:35,399 --> 01:08:38,760
all these people were so heavily
involved in this and they passed

1358
01:08:38,760 --> 01:08:41,160
away without an answer.
I think they really enjoyed

1359
01:08:41,160 --> 01:08:44,680
their work here, but they we
know more now than just because

1360
01:08:44,680 --> 01:08:47,439
we've had more time to find
things, you know, and discover

1361
01:08:47,439 --> 01:08:50,000
things.
And if it wasn't for them, you

1362
01:08:50,000 --> 01:08:52,439
say probably when it's just
today, you know, or any, a lot

1363
01:08:52,439 --> 01:08:53,680
of these sites would be gone
today.

1364
01:08:55,720 --> 01:08:58,680
Are there any connections to
that site back to like, because

1365
01:08:58,720 --> 01:09:01,399
if I'm not mistaken, when I was
there, I thought I saw something

1366
01:09:01,399 --> 01:09:04,399
that that hinted that it could
have came from people who came

1367
01:09:04,399 --> 01:09:07,479
out of the Mediterranean, excuse
me, Mediterranean basin.

1368
01:09:07,920 --> 01:09:11,600
Is that still a thought or is
that been, has that kind of

1369
01:09:11,600 --> 01:09:15,000
been, I don't know, disqualified
at this point?

1370
01:09:16,000 --> 01:09:18,120
Right.
Well, some people talk about the

1371
01:09:18,120 --> 01:09:22,600
Minoans, you know, because I've
been to Malta, I haven't been to

1372
01:09:22,600 --> 01:09:26,479
Crete.
And that was Franklin, president

1373
01:09:26,479 --> 01:09:29,439
of Connected Ecological Society,
found I think like a dozen

1374
01:09:29,439 --> 01:09:32,399
different similarities between
actually in that case was

1375
01:09:32,399 --> 01:09:34,120
Malter.
I think, you know, and we've

1376
01:09:34,120 --> 01:09:37,279
been to Malter.
It's a fascinating place, but I

1377
01:09:37,279 --> 01:09:42,000
think more Western European, the
wet we were going to show some

1378
01:09:42,000 --> 01:09:45,080
pictures of the bee Hut.
There's similarities in Spain

1379
01:09:45,600 --> 01:09:48,359
and there's similarities in West
and northwest Ireland, which we

1380
01:09:48,359 --> 01:09:51,040
didn't get.
Excuse me, that's in Ireland,

1381
01:09:51,040 --> 01:09:53,200
which we did get to.
We did get to county me.

1382
01:09:53,200 --> 01:09:56,000
You know, these whips could, but
the East West chamber looks like

1383
01:09:56,000 --> 01:09:58,560
ones in northwest Ireland, which
we did not get to.

1384
01:09:58,840 --> 01:10:02,160
They're like the giants bed in
Holland called the Hoodington,

1385
01:10:02,240 --> 01:10:04,360
the giants bed.
They're also in Spain like that,

1386
01:10:04,440 --> 01:10:06,880
but we saw them in France too,
near Karnak.

1387
01:10:06,880 --> 01:10:10,000
We saw the the gallery grave or
gallery graves is what they call

1388
01:10:10,000 --> 01:10:13,480
them Europe, the orientations
east and West out of true north.

1389
01:10:13,720 --> 01:10:16,720
They run 20 to 60 feet.
You're used as tombs and they

1390
01:10:16,720 --> 01:10:21,080
consist of a kind of orthostats
or big boulders with, you know,

1391
01:10:21,080 --> 01:10:24,120
roofs on top in all those
places.

1392
01:10:24,760 --> 01:10:27,160
They're always true east and
West and they and again they run

1393
01:10:27,160 --> 01:10:30,560
within 20 to 60 feet in length.
And our east West chamber looks

1394
01:10:30,560 --> 01:10:33,160
just like that. the V hat looks
like that.

1395
01:10:33,440 --> 01:10:37,680
The chamber ruins looks like
what I saw in in France near

1396
01:10:37,680 --> 01:10:41,640
Karnac riding my bike and I took
a left yelled at my wife.

1397
01:10:41,640 --> 01:10:44,400
We were on bikes over there.
We went to the from Paris to a

1398
01:10:45,680 --> 01:10:47,800
your Karnac.
I think it's the name of the of

1399
01:10:47,800 --> 01:10:50,640
the station.
We found a place to stay.

1400
01:10:50,640 --> 01:10:53,120
We rented bicycles to run around
and see all those standing

1401
01:10:53,120 --> 01:10:55,520
stones in Karnac.
But they have the east West

1402
01:10:55,520 --> 01:10:57,320
chamber there.
They have the what looks like

1403
01:10:57,320 --> 01:11:01,560
our chamber in ruins.
And I said to my wife, Hey, this

1404
01:11:01,560 --> 01:11:05,080
is 1984 before cell phones.
She had a nice, she had a nice

1405
01:11:05,080 --> 01:11:06,840
Nikon camera.
I didn't have anything.

1406
01:11:06,840 --> 01:11:09,320
So he said, hey, stop, you got
to see this.

1407
01:11:09,320 --> 01:11:11,760
It was in Gaelic and French.
I don't know what it said, but I

1408
01:11:11,760 --> 01:11:14,160
took a left and it was an
ancient site, you know?

1409
01:11:14,480 --> 01:11:16,960
And I got around the hedge and
there's the chamber standing out

1410
01:11:16,960 --> 01:11:19,480
just like the chamber ruins with
the roof still intact.

1411
01:11:19,920 --> 01:11:21,200
I'm like, Oh my God, it looks
like.

1412
01:11:21,240 --> 01:11:23,680
And I didn't have any camera.
I'm thinking she's coming back

1413
01:11:23,680 --> 01:11:25,400
on her bike.
I didn't see her for like 4

1414
01:11:25,400 --> 01:11:29,400
hours and she wasn't very happy
with me because you know, it was

1415
01:11:29,400 --> 01:11:30,640
a wife.
You know what wife's do?

1416
01:11:30,640 --> 01:11:33,360
Like where were you?
You know, I'm like, where were

1417
01:11:33,360 --> 01:11:35,320
you?
I saw the most extraordinary

1418
01:11:35,320 --> 01:11:36,680
chamber.
It looked like our chamber

1419
01:11:36,680 --> 01:11:38,440
ruins.
So Western Europe has more

1420
01:11:38,440 --> 01:11:40,840
similarities, I think in the way
the structures are designed.

1421
01:11:41,320 --> 01:11:43,760
But the megalithic builders
build all across right into

1422
01:11:43,760 --> 01:11:45,120
Russia.
The Euro mountains have over

1423
01:11:45,120 --> 01:11:49,480
3500 megalithic you're in.
If you Google China or India,

1424
01:11:49,480 --> 01:11:52,680
look at megalithic kind.
They have some nice websites

1425
01:11:52,680 --> 01:11:54,480
too.
It's very similar to the Western

1426
01:11:54,480 --> 01:11:59,120
European and Austria.
They go right into, let's see,

1427
01:11:59,120 --> 01:12:03,520
now they go into Australia.
Has they called it the Aussie

1428
01:12:03,520 --> 01:12:05,560
Stonehenge?
And that's interesting.

1429
01:12:05,560 --> 01:12:07,800
And they're in New Zealand too.
That's the most recent.

1430
01:12:07,800 --> 01:12:10,480
I heard that there's megalithic
sites in New Zealand, you know,

1431
01:12:10,640 --> 01:12:12,480
and that's on my bucket list to
go there someday.

1432
01:12:13,000 --> 01:12:15,360
But I would say Western Europe,
I think they yeah.

1433
01:12:15,960 --> 01:12:18,560
So in the Mediterranean area,
before the West Coast of the

1434
01:12:18,560 --> 01:12:24,000
Atlantic, I think, yeah.
Let me ask you this, were you

1435
01:12:24,000 --> 01:12:27,160
guys ever able to find any old
burial sites?

1436
01:12:27,160 --> 01:12:30,520
Were you able to genetically
test any any bones or anything

1437
01:12:30,520 --> 01:12:34,960
like that to get an idea of of
the people that were there and

1438
01:12:34,960 --> 01:12:38,040
get a date roughly about when it
was last inhabited?

1439
01:12:39,360 --> 01:12:41,680
Yeah, that'd be, that's, that's
a great question.

1440
01:12:42,640 --> 01:12:45,280
The soil in New England is very
acidic.

1441
01:12:45,280 --> 01:12:48,080
It's not like England where it's
chalky and limestone that kind

1442
01:12:48,080 --> 01:12:50,200
of helped preserve bones.
So New England bones as you

1443
01:12:50,200 --> 01:12:53,160
dissolve in a couple 100 years.
But even the New England, New

1444
01:12:53,160 --> 01:12:56,440
Hampshire Ecological Society, my
dad was a member of that.

1445
01:12:56,440 --> 01:12:58,400
My uncle was a vice president of
that.

1446
01:12:58,400 --> 01:13:01,000
So I, I, I get their literature
and everything.

1447
01:13:01,000 --> 01:13:04,800
And our our chief archaeologist,
Pat Hume, was the president of

1448
01:13:04,800 --> 01:13:07,280
that group from, you know, she
was with us for 32 years.

1449
01:13:08,080 --> 01:13:09,120
They talked to her about that,
too.

1450
01:13:09,120 --> 01:13:11,080
She goes, yeah, we can
occasionally find bones that go

1451
01:13:11,080 --> 01:13:13,720
back more than a few 100 years.
Yes, 2 or 300 years.

1452
01:13:13,720 --> 01:13:15,360
They usually dissolve back into
soil.

1453
01:13:15,360 --> 01:13:20,400
But we have found in peat maybe,
maybe in clay bones going back a

1454
01:13:20,400 --> 01:13:25,760
few thousand years.
We did do some DNA testing two

1455
01:13:25,760 --> 01:13:28,440
years ago on bones that were
found by Mr. Goodwin in front of

1456
01:13:28,440 --> 01:13:30,680
the East West Chamber, that
which we think could have been

1457
01:13:30,680 --> 01:13:33,680
used as a tomb.
These are three different bones

1458
01:13:34,800 --> 01:13:38,160
and they're found basically on
bedrock with just a little bit

1459
01:13:38,160 --> 01:13:39,360
of soil.
We know because we have

1460
01:13:39,360 --> 01:13:43,000
photographs in 1920 of a young
man standing by the East West

1461
01:13:43,000 --> 01:13:46,160
Chamber and you can see the
bedrock, you know, and you can

1462
01:13:46,160 --> 01:13:49,200
see debris right there.
But there's no place to bury a

1463
01:13:49,200 --> 01:13:51,600
body there if, unless you're
going to just put them in the,

1464
01:13:51,680 --> 01:13:53,880
in the chamber itself, which the
ancient people would do.

1465
01:13:53,880 --> 01:13:56,000
Put the body in there, let the
flesh come off, maybe take the

1466
01:13:56,000 --> 01:13:59,840
body out and properly dispose
them and then use it over again.

1467
01:13:59,880 --> 01:14:02,160
That's the old world.
They talk about that when you go

1468
01:14:02,480 --> 01:14:06,040
over in England and Ireland, you
see somebody, yeah, like the

1469
01:14:06,040 --> 01:14:08,080
West Kennett Longborough in
England.

1470
01:14:08,080 --> 01:14:09,480
We've been to that near
Stonehenge.

1471
01:14:09,800 --> 01:14:12,640
And they found, I forgot how
many skeletal remains in that

1472
01:14:12,640 --> 01:14:14,560
thing, you know, And it's the
bones are still pretty good

1473
01:14:14,560 --> 01:14:18,640
after almost 5000 years.
So these bones were looked at by

1474
01:14:18,640 --> 01:14:22,360
the Smithsonian in 1968.
They were driven down there by a

1475
01:14:22,360 --> 01:14:24,400
school teacher in the local
school.

1476
01:14:24,720 --> 01:14:28,560
She was nice enough to do that.
And then a woman named Doctor

1477
01:14:28,560 --> 01:14:31,480
Lucien, I believe it is Saint
Hoyen, if I got the name

1478
01:14:31,480 --> 01:14:33,640
correct.
She's a physical anthropologist.

1479
01:14:33,640 --> 01:14:36,520
She looked at those bones and
some bones from the watch house,

1480
01:14:36,840 --> 01:14:39,760
which is a different story.
But those bones, she looked at

1481
01:14:39,760 --> 01:14:42,760
them carefully and although they
didn't have, did not have DNA

1482
01:14:42,760 --> 01:14:45,440
back then, she said.
I believe she's looking at the

1483
01:14:46,160 --> 01:14:48,720
the texture, she's looking at
the color of the bones, the

1484
01:14:48,720 --> 01:14:52,400
shape of the bones and the
density and I guess how hard

1485
01:14:52,400 --> 01:14:53,960
they were.
We got the whole report anyway.

1486
01:14:53,960 --> 01:14:56,120
We've read it several times.
I don't remember all the details

1487
01:14:56,600 --> 01:14:57,960
because I think these are human
bones.

1488
01:14:57,960 --> 01:15:01,200
She goes, they have to be
totally positive, but she goes

1489
01:15:01,520 --> 01:15:03,600
at the very end of the way.
I personally, I think these are

1490
01:15:03,600 --> 01:15:08,440
human.
We had them DNA by up in Canada

1491
01:15:08,440 --> 01:15:11,480
and Thunder Bay two years ago
and I believe it's called

1492
01:15:11,480 --> 01:15:15,280
Lakefront University and the
laboratories run by husband and

1493
01:15:15,280 --> 01:15:18,320
wife at the university and we
got three.

1494
01:15:18,320 --> 01:15:22,560
We did a two out of the three.
We sent the two up separately to

1495
01:15:22,600 --> 01:15:24,360
customs and two different
packages.

1496
01:15:24,360 --> 01:15:26,080
We kept the third one in
safekeeping.

1497
01:15:26,240 --> 01:15:29,400
We probably always will keep
that one, you know, because what

1498
01:15:29,400 --> 01:15:31,640
they do is they have to reduce
the bone to do the testing.

1499
01:15:31,640 --> 01:15:36,720
So the bone partially gets, you
know, used, you know, so we get

1500
01:15:36,720 --> 01:15:39,440
the results back about two
months later that they checked

1501
01:15:39,440 --> 01:15:43,240
it against 39,500 different
samples of human beings.

1502
01:15:43,720 --> 01:15:46,400
And it turns out it was from
the, it was from the

1503
01:15:46,440 --> 01:15:48,920
Mediterranean area, as you
mentioned the Mediterranean

1504
01:15:48,920 --> 01:15:52,040
earlier, the, and the upper
Mediterranean, you know, and

1505
01:15:52,040 --> 01:15:55,280
that the northern part of the
Mediterranean and specifically

1506
01:15:55,280 --> 01:15:58,200
Greek, Greek ancestry were like,
well, what the heck is that?

1507
01:15:58,200 --> 01:16:01,160
We know the Paddy family came
and he bought the first piece of

1508
01:16:01,160 --> 01:16:04,600
land there in 1734.
They were shoe makers and it was

1509
01:16:05,080 --> 01:16:08,760
set senior that bought the piece
of property and I guess he was

1510
01:16:08,760 --> 01:16:11,160
going to use it as a woodland.
They were from England.

1511
01:16:11,280 --> 01:16:13,360
The grandfather Peter came over
from England.

1512
01:16:13,600 --> 01:16:16,400
The Virginia, left Virginia,
came to Salem, Mass, and

1513
01:16:16,400 --> 01:16:19,840
eventually to Haverhill, MA,
which we were part of Haverhill

1514
01:16:19,840 --> 01:16:22,440
Mass back in those days before
1741.

1515
01:16:22,960 --> 01:16:25,360
And we're like, I don't know of
anybody Greek up there.

1516
01:16:25,360 --> 01:16:28,800
We have a lot of history.
It's possible to Patty had

1517
01:16:29,160 --> 01:16:31,800
somebody in the family that was
Greek, but this person was Greek

1518
01:16:31,880 --> 01:16:33,560
ancestry.
He's like, oh, that's cool.

1519
01:16:34,200 --> 01:16:37,720
So that brought up and that was
those two pieces that were

1520
01:16:37,720 --> 01:16:40,600
tested and they were related and
they were from different parts

1521
01:16:40,600 --> 01:16:42,280
of the body.
We think it was the same person,

1522
01:16:42,280 --> 01:16:45,400
you know, so we're thinking
about did a dog drag a bone up

1523
01:16:45,400 --> 01:16:48,640
here and gnar on it?
But they're from three different

1524
01:16:48,640 --> 01:16:50,640
parts of the body.
The nearest cemetery is about a

1525
01:16:50,640 --> 01:16:52,200
mile away.
So we don't think that's the

1526
01:16:52,200 --> 01:16:53,520
case.
You know, just we're kind of

1527
01:16:53,520 --> 01:16:56,600
ruling out different things.
So we decided to have a copy.

1528
01:16:57,440 --> 01:17:00,120
So we had a carbon dated at the
same laboratory we started using

1529
01:17:00,120 --> 01:17:02,400
in 1967.
They had moved to I think

1530
01:17:02,400 --> 01:17:04,880
Tewksbury, MA from Cambridge,
MA.

1531
01:17:05,240 --> 01:17:09,280
And my dad actually dealt with
the owner, Doctor Harold Kruger

1532
01:17:09,280 --> 01:17:11,800
back then.
He died in the 90s and his son

1533
01:17:11,800 --> 01:17:14,960
daters doing all the work now.
The daters, I called him up.

1534
01:17:14,960 --> 01:17:18,400
I said no, I got these bones.
We had him DNA, two out of the

1535
01:17:18,400 --> 01:17:20,600
three.
The third one's in safekeeping.

1536
01:17:20,600 --> 01:17:22,640
We'll keep, we'll have it on
display at our museum.

1537
01:17:23,200 --> 01:17:25,280
I said, however, they've been
out of the ground for 90 years

1538
01:17:25,280 --> 01:17:26,680
almost.
He goes, there's going to be a

1539
01:17:26,680 --> 01:17:29,640
problem if you have collagen and
protein and he did the DNA on

1540
01:17:29,640 --> 01:17:31,160
it.
I think I just having him

1541
01:17:31,160 --> 01:17:33,680
exposed to the elements doesn't
hurt carbon dating.

1542
01:17:33,680 --> 01:17:35,840
He goes, no, it's actually
better to have him out of the

1543
01:17:35,840 --> 01:17:38,000
ground because he would probably
decompose, probably be gone by

1544
01:17:38,000 --> 01:17:40,520
now, you know.
But anyway, he goes, yeah, I

1545
01:17:40,520 --> 01:17:44,040
think we can do it.
So we brought down 1 sample

1546
01:17:44,040 --> 01:17:46,400
because it's about $700.00 for
that test.

1547
01:17:46,680 --> 01:17:49,000
And you know, so we decided to
do one of them.

1548
01:17:49,000 --> 01:17:51,320
We and I brought down the two
that were DNA.

1549
01:17:51,960 --> 01:17:54,000
I left the third one, not that
one we weren't going to do

1550
01:17:54,000 --> 01:17:57,320
because we hadn't DNA.
But he said, OK, I'll take this

1551
01:17:57,320 --> 01:18:00,160
one here.
So he chose one of them and he

1552
01:18:00,240 --> 01:18:03,440
said I can't do it here in my I
do conventional carbon dating.

1553
01:18:03,440 --> 01:18:07,600
There's not enough carbon or
mass in this bone and it goes to

1554
01:18:07,600 --> 01:18:10,040
1968.
We couldn't have done it either.

1555
01:18:10,800 --> 01:18:14,360
Mass accelerating spectrometry
has taken place since 1968.

1556
01:18:14,360 --> 01:18:17,440
I forget the year that came in.
He goes, but I don't do that

1557
01:18:17,440 --> 01:18:18,960
here.
I'll prepare it.

1558
01:18:19,160 --> 01:18:22,560
I'll send it to the University
of Arizona in Tucson and they'll

1559
01:18:22,560 --> 01:18:24,960
do it there.
So he, he prepared.

1560
01:18:24,960 --> 01:18:27,080
It took a little while for him
and he had a lot of other things

1561
01:18:27,080 --> 01:18:29,360
going on.
He sent it down there

1562
01:18:29,360 --> 01:18:31,320
eventually.
And I guess four months went by

1563
01:18:31,320 --> 01:18:34,840
and we found out that it wasn't
ancient, but it was from 1690 up

1564
01:18:34,840 --> 01:18:38,640
to about 1900.
The medium day was about 1850.

1565
01:18:38,640 --> 01:18:40,560
I was like, OK, so it's not
ancient.

1566
01:18:40,680 --> 01:18:43,280
It's a Greek person.
And then we thought, why is this

1567
01:18:43,280 --> 01:18:46,480
Greek person decomposing on
bedrock in the site where the

1568
01:18:46,480 --> 01:18:48,200
Paddy family is still around
that area?

1569
01:18:48,200 --> 01:18:50,200
You know, you don't want this.
Why would you leave a person

1570
01:18:51,480 --> 01:18:55,600
I'll back of your house
basically on bedrock unburied,

1571
01:18:55,600 --> 01:18:57,560
you know, so it doesn't make a
lot of sense to us.

1572
01:18:57,560 --> 01:19:00,640
So we came up with all sorts of,
you know, little, you know,

1573
01:19:01,200 --> 01:19:03,720
imaginative ideas of what
happened there, you know.

1574
01:19:03,960 --> 01:19:06,080
So yes, we have done DNA at the
site.

1575
01:19:06,600 --> 01:19:09,640
We don't have bone that goes
back at least that we know of

1576
01:19:09,640 --> 01:19:13,880
going back to 3 or 4000 years.
I will say the D hat looks like

1577
01:19:13,880 --> 01:19:16,040
the wedge teams of Ireland that
we used for burial.

1578
01:19:17,080 --> 01:19:19,840
The East West Chamber again
looks like a tomb that they used

1579
01:19:19,840 --> 01:19:22,480
in Western Europe.
It would be nice if we had the

1580
01:19:22,480 --> 01:19:24,480
soil conditions that preserve
that.

1581
01:19:25,280 --> 01:19:27,480
However, I will stay.
Also, the East West Chamber did

1582
01:19:27,480 --> 01:19:29,880
have dirt in it.
In the 1920 photographs.

1583
01:19:30,720 --> 01:19:33,440
The whole site had debris, some
dirt.

1584
01:19:33,440 --> 01:19:35,800
And Goodwin did a lot of
cleaning of brush and then they

1585
01:19:35,800 --> 01:19:40,480
began excavating, shifting, you
know, for artifacts.

1586
01:19:40,720 --> 01:19:44,600
They cleaned out the East West
Chamber and even, I think back

1587
01:19:44,600 --> 01:19:49,240
almost 50 years ago, we realized
if he hadn't done that even back

1588
01:19:49,240 --> 01:19:52,520
in the 70s, and if we could have
taken a sample out of that

1589
01:19:52,520 --> 01:19:54,560
chamber, we don't know where the
dirt was because he took it out,

1590
01:19:54,560 --> 01:19:56,320
clean it and just, you know, put
the dirt aside.

1591
01:19:56,320 --> 01:19:59,960
I guess that that dirt could be
analyzed.

1592
01:20:00,120 --> 01:20:03,360
If that was a burial, they could
check it for chemicals and

1593
01:20:03,360 --> 01:20:06,560
certain chemical traces would
indicate in the dirt that yes,

1594
01:20:06,560 --> 01:20:08,480
at one time the human body was
here.

1595
01:20:09,360 --> 01:20:11,240
We didn't have that because they
cleaned it right down to the

1596
01:20:11,240 --> 01:20:13,560
bedrock.
So that was kind of a law.

1597
01:20:15,000 --> 01:20:16,960
So that's kind of a problem, you
know?

1598
01:20:17,720 --> 01:20:21,880
There is something called
protein analysis and you can

1599
01:20:21,880 --> 01:20:25,520
actually if you have an
Arrowhead and it goes into a

1600
01:20:25,520 --> 01:20:29,000
animal, a human and it has a
little crack in it like a micro

1601
01:20:29,000 --> 01:20:31,880
Fisher and you say it went into
my body and some of the blood

1602
01:20:31,880 --> 01:20:34,360
from my body got into that
little, you know that little

1603
01:20:34,360 --> 01:20:36,240
crack.
And maybe this happened a few

1604
01:20:36,240 --> 01:20:38,480
thousand years ago.
I was living way back then.

1605
01:20:39,040 --> 01:20:42,840
They could today extract that I
guess even that minute amount of

1606
01:20:42,840 --> 01:20:44,680
what the material that was once
blood.

1607
01:20:45,000 --> 01:20:47,400
They can check it.
They can tell what type of

1608
01:20:47,720 --> 01:20:50,920
animal it was.
They can tell going back to

1609
01:20:50,920 --> 01:20:55,160
11,000 years, the time period.
So the sacrificial table, if

1610
01:20:55,160 --> 01:20:57,480
that was ever used for that
purpose, we have no idea.

1611
01:20:57,480 --> 01:20:58,840
I think it's a spheromonial
table.

1612
01:20:58,840 --> 01:21:03,680
And if it was sacrificial, you
know, how do we prove it unless

1613
01:21:03,680 --> 01:21:07,480
we know the cultural practices
or there are a lot of cracks on

1614
01:21:07,480 --> 01:21:09,960
that, on that rock, particularly
underneath it.

1615
01:21:10,640 --> 01:21:16,400
I mentioned it to Pat Hume.
She had one of her assistance, I

1616
01:21:16,400 --> 01:21:19,560
guess, from New Hampshire
Ecological Society up about 5 or

1617
01:21:19,560 --> 01:21:21,520
6 years ago.
And I asked, I said protein

1618
01:21:21,520 --> 01:21:22,840
analysis, could we do it at the
table?

1619
01:21:22,840 --> 01:21:24,320
She goes to the top of the
table.

1620
01:21:24,560 --> 01:21:27,200
In your first photographs, it's
been exposed to the elements.

1621
01:21:27,520 --> 01:21:30,400
That probably won't work.
You can't.

1622
01:21:30,600 --> 01:21:32,280
You know, it's best to be
covered over with dirt to

1623
01:21:32,560 --> 01:21:34,960
protect it.
The other possibility is the

1624
01:21:34,960 --> 01:21:38,080
bottom of the table also has all
these cracks because it's all

1625
01:21:38,080 --> 01:21:41,640
foliated dead rock.
That big slab, it weighs almost

1626
01:21:41,640 --> 01:21:43,440
9000 lbs.
If you look under, it's got

1627
01:21:43,440 --> 01:21:45,720
always cracked.
I'm wondering at some few today.

1628
01:21:45,720 --> 01:21:47,800
Maybe somebody can come in there
very carefully.

1629
01:21:48,120 --> 01:21:51,920
If blood was on that table, if
it whatever was, it would go

1630
01:21:51,920 --> 01:21:54,960
over the table, it would run
down that little runnel and then

1631
01:21:54,960 --> 01:21:58,240
it probably would actually go
into the bottom of the rock

1632
01:21:58,240 --> 01:22:00,480
somewhat.
Maybe a little bit of it got

1633
01:22:00,480 --> 01:22:02,600
into a crack.
That would be interesting.

1634
01:22:02,600 --> 01:22:05,320
You know, I don't know how they
extract that from the crack or

1635
01:22:05,320 --> 01:22:08,080
they have to damage the table to
get it out of there underneath.

1636
01:22:08,080 --> 01:22:10,000
I don't know.
So that's a possibility too,

1637
01:22:10,000 --> 01:22:13,160
with that technology.
And they could say, yeah, we

1638
01:22:13,160 --> 01:22:16,320
have a sample of blood, it's
from an animal or whatever, and

1639
01:22:16,320 --> 01:22:19,600
it's just type of animal or
person and it's just old.

1640
01:22:19,840 --> 01:22:21,200
You know, that would be
interesting.

1641
01:22:21,280 --> 01:22:23,880
And so it's a possibility,
especially underneath the table

1642
01:22:23,880 --> 01:22:27,400
was protected because when
Goodwin first came, the table

1643
01:22:27,400 --> 01:22:30,080
was buried up to the very bottom
and then he cleaned it down.

1644
01:22:30,080 --> 01:22:32,440
So for 90 years, the bottom of
it's been clean.

1645
01:22:32,760 --> 01:22:35,360
So whether that would work
underneath the table, it's not

1646
01:22:35,360 --> 01:22:38,800
exposed to the sunlight, I
really don't know, you know, But

1647
01:22:39,080 --> 01:22:40,680
maybe maybe someday they could
do that.

1648
01:22:42,000 --> 01:22:44,920
Gotcha, gotcha.
But at any rate, there's a bone

1649
01:22:44,920 --> 01:22:49,520
out there from about the 1700s.
Wait, 1600s?

1650
01:22:49,920 --> 01:22:52,240
That is from the Mediterranean
basin.

1651
01:22:53,040 --> 01:22:53,880
Exactly.
Yeah.

1652
01:22:53,880 --> 01:22:56,720
So we got somebody of Greek
ancestry and, you know, they

1653
01:22:56,720 --> 01:22:58,320
were on the hilltop for some
reason.

1654
01:22:58,320 --> 01:23:01,400
And they were from, you know,
the two of their DNA, they were,

1655
01:23:02,600 --> 01:23:05,760
they were related, the same
person or very, very close

1656
01:23:05,760 --> 01:23:10,160
relationship.
And there were three different

1657
01:23:10,160 --> 01:23:12,200
parts of the body that these
bones came from.

1658
01:23:12,200 --> 01:23:16,080
So it sounds like it was a body
that was left there was in some

1659
01:23:16,440 --> 01:23:19,440
dog dug up a grave somewhere and
dragged up a bone to the hill

1660
01:23:19,440 --> 01:23:20,760
kind of thing.
So yeah, we do.

1661
01:23:20,920 --> 01:23:24,000
We happen to do some DNA too.
So we're trying to use all the

1662
01:23:24,000 --> 01:23:27,600
latest technology that we can
use on the site.

1663
01:23:28,760 --> 01:23:30,760
Gotcha, gotcha.
Awesome.

1664
01:23:30,760 --> 01:23:33,440
Well, let's look at some
pictures here and I want to I

1665
01:23:33,440 --> 01:23:36,280
want to get get your, your
information on them, Dennis.

1666
01:23:37,080 --> 01:23:40,600
Sure.
So let me let me share my screen

1667
01:23:40,600 --> 01:23:46,240
here real quick and then you can
just tell me if you see them.

1668
01:23:48,600 --> 01:23:50,040
OK?
Dennis, are you seeing that?

1669
01:23:52,160 --> 01:23:53,720
Now, OK, it's just coming up
now.

1670
01:23:53,720 --> 01:23:55,720
Yeah.
So that picture there is near

1671
01:23:55,720 --> 01:23:58,280
the watch house.
The watch house would be behind

1672
01:23:58,440 --> 01:24:00,240
where the photograph was taken
to the right.

1673
01:24:00,240 --> 01:24:02,600
We'll actually looking up what
we call the double wall path.

1674
01:24:03,160 --> 01:24:07,360
And this double wall path
continues up probably about 200

1675
01:24:07,400 --> 01:24:09,960
feet.
It goes to a Ridge where there

1676
01:24:09,960 --> 01:24:14,560
was a chamber that was knocked
down in the 1948, not 38

1677
01:24:14,560 --> 01:24:18,960
hurricane, but 48 when Mr.
Goodwin was still alive and

1678
01:24:19,000 --> 01:24:20,320
Malcolm Peterson was still
around.

1679
01:24:20,320 --> 01:24:21,880
It was actually a chamber on top
of that Ridge.

1680
01:24:21,880 --> 01:24:24,920
And then you go down to a well
called the Lower Well, and then

1681
01:24:24,920 --> 01:24:28,080
you take a 90° turn and you go
to the main site.

1682
01:24:28,080 --> 01:24:32,120
So that's a double wall path,
and that is kind of running east

1683
01:24:32,120 --> 01:24:33,760
and West.
If you go to the other side of

1684
01:24:33,760 --> 01:24:37,000
the hill, there's actually a
double well path that comes in

1685
01:24:37,000 --> 01:24:40,440
from the north, the northwest,
and it goes right to the

1686
01:24:40,440 --> 01:24:44,320
southwest.
And these two paths converge in

1687
01:24:44,320 --> 01:24:47,920
the main site near a stone
called the gatepost slab.

1688
01:24:48,440 --> 01:24:50,360
It's thought that this was a
processional path.

1689
01:24:50,400 --> 01:24:51,960
You know, I mean, Patty could
have used it.

1690
01:24:51,960 --> 01:24:53,880
He was a Shoemaker.
He had some domesticated

1691
01:24:53,880 --> 01:24:57,200
animals.
But this, this wall on the right

1692
01:24:57,200 --> 01:25:00,680
part of it behind the camera
where this picture was taken is

1693
01:25:00,680 --> 01:25:03,280
where they got the 1400 year old
date on that wall.

1694
01:25:03,960 --> 01:25:09,840
So Patty had domesticated
animals, but he wasn't a farmer

1695
01:25:09,840 --> 01:25:13,520
per SE.
So this may have been a sacred

1696
01:25:13,520 --> 01:25:19,040
way, a pathway to the main site
for the people that went there,

1697
01:25:19,240 --> 01:25:22,920
perhaps on certain.
So we think of a Patty could

1698
01:25:22,920 --> 01:25:24,560
have used this for some of his
animals.

1699
01:25:24,560 --> 01:25:27,320
We think it was an ancient
pathway mocked by these two rows

1700
01:25:27,320 --> 01:25:29,600
of stones.
And out of sight on the left of

1701
01:25:29,600 --> 01:25:33,000
above is actually another one of
those orthostats, the big, big

1702
01:25:33,520 --> 01:25:36,640
kind of a rectangular slab of
stone that was removed from the

1703
01:25:36,640 --> 01:25:40,440
bedrock stood on its edge.
And these are all over the

1704
01:25:40,440 --> 01:25:42,280
hilltop like that.
Farmers generally didn't do

1705
01:25:42,280 --> 01:25:42,800
that.
They didn't.

1706
01:25:42,800 --> 01:25:45,400
They didn't go in quarry slabs,
unless you use the gatepost slab

1707
01:25:45,400 --> 01:25:48,480
or steps for the house or even
some bond foundation, house

1708
01:25:48,480 --> 01:25:50,040
foundation.
You can see all the drill mocks.

1709
01:25:50,360 --> 01:25:52,560
These stones don't have any of
those modern drill mocks in

1710
01:25:52,560 --> 01:25:54,800
them.
They're all done without the

1711
01:25:55,040 --> 01:25:57,320
star drill and the plug and
feather and all of that.

1712
01:25:57,600 --> 01:26:01,360
These but they but they have lit
the stones on the edge seems to

1713
01:26:01,360 --> 01:26:03,800
be something that the ancient
people did for some reason.

1714
01:26:03,800 --> 01:26:06,560
We call them orthostats.
The East West chamber, by the

1715
01:26:06,600 --> 01:26:09,640
way, has orthostats that has
roof slabs on top of them.

1716
01:26:11,000 --> 01:26:13,200
Right.
It's interesting because as I

1717
01:26:13,200 --> 01:26:17,520
was out there, I, I looked at,
at this really for quite a long

1718
01:26:17,520 --> 01:26:22,480
time and this is a lot of what
you see right here, these stone

1719
01:26:22,480 --> 01:26:25,640
walls, right?
But nonetheless, it does seem

1720
01:26:25,640 --> 01:26:29,400
to, I, I agree that it, it seems
ceremonial in nature, like

1721
01:26:29,400 --> 01:26:33,200
there's almost a, an initiate or
candidate who's going on a

1722
01:26:33,200 --> 01:26:36,520
journey, so to speak, a
spiritual journey, if you will,

1723
01:26:36,520 --> 01:26:40,400
through this.
But there, there were a lot of

1724
01:26:40,400 --> 01:26:42,680
these little walls that were up
here, right?

1725
01:26:43,000 --> 01:26:46,400
Not actually enclosures, but
like you put it pathways, I

1726
01:26:46,400 --> 01:26:48,520
think is a is a great way of of
putting it.

1727
01:26:49,160 --> 01:26:51,840
And yeah, if you look at.
Yeah, If you look at my diorama,

1728
01:26:51,840 --> 01:26:54,240
when you come in the building
and see that the walls run all

1729
01:26:54,240 --> 01:26:56,640
of it, they turn, they twist,
they bend, they're all over the

1730
01:26:56,640 --> 01:26:58,040
hilltop.
We're find this walls usually

1731
01:26:58,040 --> 01:27:01,200
covered a big, big, broad area
and they were just getting rid

1732
01:27:01,200 --> 01:27:04,120
of rocks from the fields that
came up each year in the spring.

1733
01:27:05,000 --> 01:27:08,800
They and they used these walls
for stock fences, boundaries in

1734
01:27:08,800 --> 01:27:12,200
some cases, and just basically a
place to put rocks.

1735
01:27:12,200 --> 01:27:14,000
They had New England just loaded
rocks.

1736
01:27:14,000 --> 01:27:16,480
They wanted to get rid of them
for, you know, agricultural

1737
01:27:16,480 --> 01:27:19,400
reasons, you know, so these
walls aren't like that.

1738
01:27:20,160 --> 01:27:24,200
There are many on 106 acres and
they go all over the place.

1739
01:27:24,200 --> 01:27:25,720
They don't have any real rhyme
or reason.

1740
01:27:25,720 --> 01:27:27,480
And some of them are the
Serpentine wells.

1741
01:27:27,680 --> 01:27:29,240
And that's the lower well I
mentioned.

1742
01:27:29,760 --> 01:27:31,520
I believe that's the low well
because you have an upper well.

1743
01:27:31,520 --> 01:27:35,200
I think that's the lower one.
As you went up that path, you

1744
01:27:35,200 --> 01:27:37,880
were just going, and that's
probably about 200 feet from

1745
01:27:37,880 --> 01:27:40,520
where the, I think you probably
took these pitches where you

1746
01:27:40,520 --> 01:27:43,040
were standing, I think.
Yeah, I was, Yep.

1747
01:27:43,360 --> 01:27:48,120
And and my question is and and
this on this is, was this well

1748
01:27:48,960 --> 01:27:53,400
in in your guys's estimation, is
this part of the original stone

1749
01:27:54,280 --> 01:27:58,560
works that were there?
You know, they haven't dug this

1750
01:27:58,640 --> 01:28:01,040
well, have not dug this well to
the very bottom of it.

1751
01:28:01,560 --> 01:28:04,880
They have attempted to in the
past to see how far it goes down

1752
01:28:04,880 --> 01:28:06,760
and what artifacts might be at
the bottom.

1753
01:28:07,480 --> 01:28:11,280
But it is very similar to wells
that are found in North

1754
01:28:11,280 --> 01:28:13,800
Stonington.
They're they're at the surface

1755
01:28:13,800 --> 01:28:16,040
level is then they're not built
up.

1756
01:28:16,360 --> 01:28:19,160
An animal could trip and fall
into it as easy as a person as

1757
01:28:19,160 --> 01:28:22,800
in fact, the the author said
that's one of the categories he

1758
01:28:22,800 --> 01:28:25,880
had of the 25.
He said I almost walking through

1759
01:28:25,880 --> 01:28:28,240
the woods, actually almost fell
into some of these wells.

1760
01:28:28,240 --> 01:28:30,640
You just don't see them.
If I understand we built them

1761
01:28:30,640 --> 01:28:31,880
up.
They might put a wooden thing

1762
01:28:31,880 --> 01:28:33,280
around it which that could have
had.

1763
01:28:33,280 --> 01:28:34,480
I suppose there's no evidence of
that.

1764
01:28:34,720 --> 01:28:37,680
Or put a Stonewall that goes up
high because you don't want kids

1765
01:28:37,680 --> 01:28:39,480
falling into these things.
You don't want your pets.

1766
01:28:39,480 --> 01:28:42,560
You don't want your if you if
Patty's had some domesticated

1767
01:28:42,560 --> 01:28:44,080
animals, you don't want them
falling in there.

1768
01:28:44,280 --> 01:28:45,760
So that's a very good question,
Dave.

1769
01:28:45,760 --> 01:28:50,200
But that's the lower well.
There is one as you get into the

1770
01:28:50,200 --> 01:28:51,800
main site, we call the upper
well.

1771
01:28:52,400 --> 01:28:54,480
I thought is that this well may
be original.

1772
01:28:54,480 --> 01:28:57,120
I if I was a Patty family, I'd
probably put a bucket in there

1773
01:28:57,120 --> 01:28:59,800
and get water out of it.
But until somebody goes to the

1774
01:28:59,800 --> 01:29:02,800
bottom to see how deep this well
is and then what's at the bottom

1775
01:29:02,800 --> 01:29:05,480
of it.
When they did some work on it 40

1776
01:29:05,480 --> 01:29:08,520
years ago in the 1980s, they
found a lot of stuff from our

1777
01:29:08,880 --> 01:29:11,360
our visitors.
People threw things into it as

1778
01:29:11,360 --> 01:29:15,360
they walk by, whether it was
pennies or other things into it.

1779
01:29:15,560 --> 01:29:19,360
A lot of historical things,
including I think the old pop on

1780
01:29:19,360 --> 01:29:21,800
the aluminum cans of pop tots,
you know, tops.

1781
01:29:21,800 --> 01:29:25,200
I should say that we're in there
and bottle caps and all sorts of

1782
01:29:25,200 --> 01:29:28,520
stuff, but that that's only like
at the, I think the 14 foot

1783
01:29:28,520 --> 01:29:31,000
level or whatever it was.
And again, we need to go to the

1784
01:29:31,000 --> 01:29:32,840
bottom of that.
I'm wondering if ground

1785
01:29:32,840 --> 01:29:35,400
penetration radar, next time we
have it, we can hold it over

1786
01:29:35,400 --> 01:29:38,040
there and whether she can see
the depth of that with the

1787
01:29:38,040 --> 01:29:40,680
ground penetration radar.
A woman named Doria, she's been

1788
01:29:40,680 --> 01:29:43,800
coming up since 2020 also, you
know, so she's been involved

1789
01:29:43,800 --> 01:29:45,320
with what cell thing and all of
that.

1790
01:29:45,720 --> 01:29:47,640
So that's a good question, but
it's in the middle of the double

1791
01:29:47,640 --> 01:29:50,760
wall path.
If you have animals herding

1792
01:29:50,760 --> 01:29:53,160
along you, you certainly don't
want them falling into the well.

1793
01:29:53,240 --> 01:29:55,680
I mean, you don't want to have
your normal break your leg or

1794
01:29:55,800 --> 01:29:59,600
anything like that unless you
put a wooden thing around it.

1795
01:29:59,600 --> 01:30:02,040
But there's no stone work around
it to prevent anybody from

1796
01:30:02,040 --> 01:30:04,240
falling in that.
But we have a chain link fence

1797
01:30:04,240 --> 01:30:06,400
around that too.
So we had that cover with a

1798
01:30:06,400 --> 01:30:08,920
chain link fence with the wood.
And then we have the chain link

1799
01:30:08,920 --> 01:30:11,920
fence, 4 foot tall, whatever,
just to keep people from falling

1800
01:30:11,920 --> 01:30:13,880
in that today.
But it's right in the middle of

1801
01:30:13,880 --> 01:30:16,120
a double wall path.
And by the way, it's right next

1802
01:30:16,120 --> 01:30:20,240
to a swamp and it's also next to
the South wall, which we

1803
01:30:20,240 --> 01:30:22,720
determined in the 1970s during
the survey work.

1804
01:30:22,720 --> 01:30:25,600
It's a good South wall.
It goes through the, if you went

1805
01:30:25,600 --> 01:30:27,880
N, it goes through the north
stone, the monolith called the

1806
01:30:27,880 --> 01:30:30,880
north stone, probably about 5 or
600 feet away.

1807
01:30:31,520 --> 01:30:34,800
But we just more recently
realized that South wall has a

1808
01:30:34,800 --> 01:30:40,040
90° bend with a boulder and then
it has a big stone natural

1809
01:30:40,040 --> 01:30:42,240
glacial boulder about halfway
through that wall.

1810
01:30:42,480 --> 01:30:44,680
And then the wall seems to go
underground a little bit.

1811
01:30:44,880 --> 01:30:50,080
It comes back up and it's split
into a big kind of AD shaped

1812
01:30:50,360 --> 01:30:53,560
opening at the end.
The walls kind of shape like

1813
01:30:53,560 --> 01:30:55,480
that.
We think it's another serpent.

1814
01:30:56,040 --> 01:30:58,720
And on the north side it's a 90°
bend with a boulder.

1815
01:30:58,720 --> 01:31:00,280
I've been looking at that since
I've been kidding.

1816
01:31:00,280 --> 01:31:02,840
Why do they waste your time?
There's only a short spec and

1817
01:31:02,840 --> 01:31:05,920
that's 90°, like, you know, 7
feet or 8 feet.

1818
01:31:06,080 --> 01:31:08,520
Why did they do that with this
big boulder here?

1819
01:31:08,800 --> 01:31:10,880
It bends 90° and then heads
South.

1820
01:31:10,880 --> 01:31:13,400
And then as you head South
towards the chain link fence,

1821
01:31:13,400 --> 01:31:15,640
there's a big glacial boulder
there that's kind of cool.

1822
01:31:15,960 --> 01:31:18,520
And then you go further South.
The well kind of goes down.

1823
01:31:18,800 --> 01:31:21,720
It disappears into the ground a
little bit and it comes back up

1824
01:31:21,720 --> 01:31:25,920
into this Y.
I think the boulder is the tail

1825
01:31:25,920 --> 01:31:29,560
with a 90° bend, 'cause you find
several of these here and

1826
01:31:29,560 --> 01:31:32,800
elsewhere across the landscape
from New England and beyond.

1827
01:31:33,200 --> 01:31:36,840
These serpents can have like a
90° tail, and we have, I think,

1828
01:31:36,840 --> 01:31:40,400
two or three at the site that
had that 90° tail, the boulder

1829
01:31:40,520 --> 01:31:43,640
being halfway through the body.
We've seen that in Connecticut

1830
01:31:43,640 --> 01:31:45,320
too.
Either that or they built the

1831
01:31:45,320 --> 01:31:47,520
wall wider, and we have one of
those at our site too.

1832
01:31:47,520 --> 01:31:49,200
Just the smaller rocks built
wider.

1833
01:31:49,720 --> 01:31:52,840
I thought today it's could that
represent pregnancy or could

1834
01:31:52,840 --> 01:31:55,440
that represent the serpent ate
something like it's prey?

1835
01:31:55,440 --> 01:31:56,400
Oh, very.
Interesting.

1836
01:31:56,480 --> 01:31:59,960
And then it goes to the yeah,
and then it goes further South

1837
01:31:59,960 --> 01:32:03,920
to that Big Y And my buddy from
West Virginia, he's my

1838
01:32:03,920 --> 01:32:06,080
publicist, gives me a lot of
radio shows.

1839
01:32:06,080 --> 01:32:10,160
Mark Eddie, he sent me a picture
of 1 from Kentucky.

1840
01:32:10,720 --> 01:32:13,720
And the Kentucky is a Stonewall.
It's shaped like a like a

1841
01:32:13,720 --> 01:32:16,840
serpent.
In 1990, an archaeologist, a

1842
01:32:16,840 --> 01:32:19,320
lady was actually working on
that back then.

1843
01:32:19,600 --> 01:32:22,640
I'm surprised it didn't make the
like, but a lot of this stuff

1844
01:32:22,640 --> 01:32:25,280
does not.
And he has this Stonewall

1845
01:32:25,280 --> 01:32:27,080
serpent in Kentucky with a wide
mouth.

1846
01:32:27,480 --> 01:32:30,720
The Great Serpent modern in Ohio
again does have a wide mouth

1847
01:32:30,720 --> 01:32:33,120
with a negative.
And I'm looking at that V shape

1848
01:32:33,120 --> 01:32:35,840
at the end facing the swamp in
that well, you got there.

1849
01:32:36,240 --> 01:32:39,000
It's just next to it.
I'm like and it kind of has like

1850
01:32:39,000 --> 01:32:43,200
2 stones mocking what could be
the end of the mouth on either

1851
01:32:43,200 --> 01:32:45,040
side.
I think I got a wide mouth

1852
01:32:45,040 --> 01:32:48,960
serpent facing true South and it
looks like it's going into the

1853
01:32:48,960 --> 01:32:51,120
swamp.
And one of the things that that

1854
01:32:51,120 --> 01:32:55,440
ceremonial stonework book by
Mocking Star in 2016 said about

1855
01:32:55,520 --> 01:32:58,160
yes, 400 serpents.
As I mentioned, some of these

1856
01:32:58,160 --> 01:33:01,720
serpents are coming out of the
water like swamps and ponds and

1857
01:33:01,720 --> 01:33:04,280
North Stonington.
Some are going into it and this

1858
01:33:04,280 --> 01:33:06,880
one appears to be heading South
right for the swamp.

1859
01:33:07,200 --> 01:33:08,960
And it also goes underground a
little bit.

1860
01:33:09,600 --> 01:33:11,880
And I've had other researchers
included a guy named Doug.

1861
01:33:11,880 --> 01:33:14,760
He's from Connecticut too.
He's a friend of Mark Starr's.

1862
01:33:15,640 --> 01:33:19,160
He treated Mark Markham Starr a
lot on what because Markham

1863
01:33:19,160 --> 01:33:21,160
Starr lived there for 30 years
and said all these have been

1864
01:33:21,200 --> 01:33:23,200
called farmers walls and
constructions.

1865
01:33:23,200 --> 01:33:26,600
And when he met this my friend
Doug there, that kind of Doug

1866
01:33:26,600 --> 01:33:28,720
was a number of near up had a
set of straights.

1867
01:33:28,720 --> 01:33:30,240
And yeah, we know what farmers
walls look like.

1868
01:33:30,240 --> 01:33:34,120
There's 240,000 miles of farmers
walls in New England.

1869
01:33:34,320 --> 01:33:37,160
This these walls are not that.
These are a whole different

1870
01:33:37,160 --> 01:33:38,880
thing.
And we think these are ancient.

1871
01:33:39,240 --> 01:33:41,000
And then they started seeing the
serpent walls.

1872
01:33:41,400 --> 01:33:45,240
But I think we have a wide mouth
serpent kind of heading South

1873
01:33:45,240 --> 01:33:47,160
and it's on the true north-south
alignment.

1874
01:33:47,320 --> 01:33:50,360
It's tail is actually kind of,
you know, the body actually

1875
01:33:50,360 --> 01:33:52,720
before the 90° bend is facing
the north stone.

1876
01:33:52,720 --> 01:33:55,960
It goes right through the
astronomical platform where

1877
01:33:55,960 --> 01:33:59,600
there are two cons that mark all
the astronomical alignments and

1878
01:33:59,600 --> 01:34:02,480
they're two North and South of
each other, both cons.

1879
01:34:02,480 --> 01:34:06,680
They were destroyed by Goodwin
back in the 19 late 30s because

1880
01:34:06,680 --> 01:34:08,280
he didn't know what their
purpose was.

1881
01:34:08,280 --> 01:34:09,920
He thought they were part of the
Oracle Chamber.

1882
01:34:09,920 --> 01:34:11,800
They were not.
He thought they were hollow like

1883
01:34:11,800 --> 01:34:15,040
beehive chambers, like you see
in Ireland, these big kind of a

1884
01:34:15,640 --> 01:34:18,760
beehive shaped structure, almost
the igloo shaped structure.

1885
01:34:19,480 --> 01:34:22,200
The core building in the roof,
like Newgrange has that inside

1886
01:34:22,200 --> 01:34:23,520
too.
Newgrange is amazing.

1887
01:34:23,520 --> 01:34:27,400
The far end with the crucero.
It's a gigantic, you know, Dome

1888
01:34:27,400 --> 01:34:31,440
shape almost.
But they weren't and he decided

1889
01:34:31,440 --> 01:34:34,520
to use he thought they must have
been discarded stones like a

1890
01:34:34,520 --> 01:34:38,120
just a waste pile of rock.
He just built part of the ramp

1891
01:34:38,120 --> 01:34:40,960
by the sacrificial table and
needed some repairs.

1892
01:34:40,960 --> 01:34:44,920
So he, he has tripods of wood
and we have the pictures of that

1893
01:34:44,920 --> 01:34:47,560
with which and he's lifting up
their pox.

1894
01:34:47,760 --> 01:34:50,520
The building part of that
platform there overlooking the

1895
01:34:50,520 --> 01:34:52,560
sacrificial table, the North End
of it.

1896
01:34:52,920 --> 01:34:55,280
And he destroyed the
astronomical center by the late

1897
01:34:55,280 --> 01:34:59,360
30s and it wasn't until the 70s
you realized the error of his

1898
01:34:59,360 --> 01:35:00,840
ways.
It's a thing.

1899
01:35:00,840 --> 01:35:02,880
But he diagrammed them and
they're in his foot.

1900
01:35:03,280 --> 01:35:07,640
So looking N, you see the table,
Oracle chambers on the right,

1901
01:35:07,800 --> 01:35:10,440
and then you're looking beyond
the table in the background, the

1902
01:35:10,440 --> 01:35:13,000
diagram, the 2 Dome structures
is there.

1903
01:35:13,360 --> 01:35:15,800
And when we did all that survey
work I mentioned over five

1904
01:35:15,800 --> 01:35:18,120
years, we found that that was
the astronomical center of the

1905
01:35:18,120 --> 01:35:19,760
site.
So that goes right down there to

1906
01:35:19,760 --> 01:35:22,400
the north stone.
It goes through this those two

1907
01:35:22,880 --> 01:35:25,800
times that there are cons piles
of rocks, and then it goes right

1908
01:35:25,800 --> 01:35:28,920
into the South wall and which is
going towards a swamp, you know?

1909
01:35:29,360 --> 01:35:31,880
So yeah, that area right around
that little well is kind of

1910
01:35:31,880 --> 01:35:33,320
interesting.
You know what?

1911
01:35:33,320 --> 01:35:33,880
What?
Yeah.

1912
01:35:33,880 --> 01:35:36,680
And the interesting thing about
the well here and let me go.

1913
01:35:37,040 --> 01:35:40,200
The well looks like it was fed
off of this little Creek here

1914
01:35:40,880 --> 01:35:43,120
because the well is back back
this way.

1915
01:35:43,640 --> 01:35:47,520
And as as a surveyor, right and
a guy who's done a lot of

1916
01:35:47,520 --> 01:35:50,440
construction layout, I was like,
well, it looks like they're

1917
01:35:50,440 --> 01:35:54,560
collecting water.
I couldn't see an outflow on

1918
01:35:54,560 --> 01:35:57,720
this well here, which tells me
that they were allowing the

1919
01:35:57,720 --> 01:36:01,080
water to kind of come in here,
seek its own level and then

1920
01:36:01,080 --> 01:36:03,800
extract water out of it.
I just found it interesting

1921
01:36:03,800 --> 01:36:06,760
because it looks like water was
being brought in from the

1922
01:36:06,800 --> 01:36:11,920
outside of the of the area to
the inside, which I, I just

1923
01:36:11,920 --> 01:36:14,440
found was fascinating.
Let me go.

1924
01:36:14,440 --> 01:36:15,160
Yeah, I think that's.
Right.

1925
01:36:15,480 --> 01:36:18,400
Yeah.
Oh, what's that?

1926
01:36:18,400 --> 01:36:20,360
Sorry, Dennis.
Oh, no problem.

1927
01:36:20,360 --> 01:36:22,440
Yeah, I was just going to see if
I can blow up the pitches a

1928
01:36:22,440 --> 01:36:23,400
little bit big.
Oh, I can.

1929
01:36:23,400 --> 01:36:25,000
OK, that make them a little
bigger then I can see them

1930
01:36:25,000 --> 01:36:26,720
better.
Oh yeah, I'm.

1931
01:36:27,840 --> 01:36:31,400
So this is this is one of the
ones that really fascinated me

1932
01:36:31,920 --> 01:36:34,040
and this is what you've been
alluding to here.

1933
01:36:34,480 --> 01:36:41,240
So here we have like like a, a,
a compartment or a, a room

1934
01:36:41,240 --> 01:36:45,120
that's built above ground,
right, that you have all this

1935
01:36:45,120 --> 01:36:49,400
rock that's been stacked up.
Now look these, as you were

1936
01:36:49,400 --> 01:36:52,800
saying, this is bedrock, right?
This is this is heavy rock.

1937
01:36:52,800 --> 01:36:55,920
This is not something that's
easy to move.

1938
01:36:55,920 --> 01:36:57,720
And we're going to show some
more of these here.

1939
01:36:58,200 --> 01:37:01,160
But what what chamber we looking
at here, Dennis?

1940
01:37:02,320 --> 01:37:04,560
No, that's, that's in the,
that's kind of when you first

1941
01:37:04,560 --> 01:37:06,600
enter the site.
And on your right is the upper

1942
01:37:06,600 --> 01:37:08,120
well, and that's the Paddy
chamber.

1943
01:37:08,640 --> 01:37:09,880
Oh, I'm sorry.
My dog's talking.

1944
01:37:10,120 --> 01:37:14,960
It's a Paddy's chamber.
And Paddy's chamber is oh, sorry

1945
01:37:14,960 --> 01:37:17,240
about that sky.
My dog's sky.

1946
01:37:17,240 --> 01:37:19,280
She's talking at something and I
apologize.

1947
01:37:20,400 --> 01:37:25,520
Yeah.
So the Paddy chamber.

1948
01:37:25,520 --> 01:37:27,640
Yeah.
So that chamber is facing S It

1949
01:37:27,640 --> 01:37:31,720
has a little bit of a window to
the left into the structure.

1950
01:37:31,720 --> 01:37:33,880
It's kind of hard to see.
It's like a little window there

1951
01:37:33,880 --> 01:37:35,800
on the very, very left near the
bottom.

1952
01:37:36,400 --> 01:37:39,760
And it's not Yeah, Go down
right, a little bit more to the

1953
01:37:39,760 --> 01:37:42,240
left with your cursor.
More to the left, more to the

1954
01:37:42,240 --> 01:37:44,680
left, more to the left, right,
about right about there, you see

1955
01:37:44,680 --> 01:37:47,560
little dark spot.
That's one of the windows in a

1956
01:37:47,560 --> 01:37:50,160
chamber.
The chamber and ruins has a

1957
01:37:50,160 --> 01:37:53,480
similar one on the same side and
it's facing the same direction.

1958
01:37:53,720 --> 01:37:56,240
The chamber and ruins in the
background and the big roof slab

1959
01:37:56,240 --> 01:37:58,400
is just visible.
But yeah, right there, that's

1960
01:37:58,400 --> 01:38:01,520
visible.
That's a couple ton slab that

1961
01:38:01,520 --> 01:38:03,960
fell into it.
That's one of the inscriptions

1962
01:38:03,960 --> 01:38:08,120
cabin datings we got.
It faces South and it has a

1963
01:38:08,120 --> 01:38:10,800
window and it also has a window
on the north side of that

1964
01:38:10,800 --> 01:38:13,480
chamber too.
And I mentioned windows before,

1965
01:38:13,480 --> 01:38:15,520
but these windows are similar to
that, but they're actually in

1966
01:38:15,520 --> 01:38:18,360
the stone walls themselves.
And that wasn't found until

1967
01:38:18,360 --> 01:38:20,880
2016.
My dad spent a lot of time

1968
01:38:20,880 --> 01:38:24,320
looking at the walls all over
the hill, particularly towards

1969
01:38:24,320 --> 01:38:27,160
the end of his life.
He would go up there and what a

1970
01:38:27,360 --> 01:38:31,200
little bit earlier, back in the
about 25 years ago, Doctor

1971
01:38:31,200 --> 01:38:33,880
Winkler from Penn State was
coming up for a number of years.

1972
01:38:33,880 --> 01:38:37,160
He was an OCU astronomer, which
is very valuable to us for the

1973
01:38:37,160 --> 01:38:39,440
astronomy.
And he would go out with my dad

1974
01:38:39,440 --> 01:38:42,440
in the woods and look at the
stone walls and they would

1975
01:38:42,440 --> 01:38:44,240
measure them, They would
photograph them and make

1976
01:38:44,240 --> 01:38:46,400
comments.
They never saw the Serpentine

1977
01:38:46,400 --> 01:38:48,760
shape in them.
And he did a dead eye back then

1978
01:38:49,080 --> 01:38:52,040
and they never saw the windows.
And today we have 36 windows,

1979
01:38:52,040 --> 01:38:53,760
but the windows a little bit
like that.

1980
01:38:54,720 --> 01:38:58,600
But that's the Patty area that
Jonathan Patty family and to the

1981
01:38:58,600 --> 01:39:00,800
left of that chamber we've made.
This chamber was built by the

1982
01:39:00,800 --> 01:39:02,840
original builders.
It's built out of bedrock, as

1983
01:39:02,840 --> 01:39:04,600
you mentioned.
There's a lot of flat stonework

1984
01:39:04,600 --> 01:39:07,400
that came off the bedrock.
That area right in there is a,

1985
01:39:07,640 --> 01:39:09,760
we think it was an ancient
courtyard.

1986
01:39:10,120 --> 01:39:13,360
And the Paddy house is a wooden
house, probably 2 story tall,

1987
01:39:14,240 --> 01:39:17,920
about 20 by 40 sat on that
courtyard, and they put a wall

1988
01:39:17,920 --> 01:39:20,080
in the middle of the courtyard
to support the middle of the

1989
01:39:20,080 --> 01:39:21,800
house.
Today people use lolly columns,

1990
01:39:21,800 --> 01:39:24,280
you know, those metal posts with
cement in them, and they stand

1991
01:39:24,280 --> 01:39:26,280
them up in the cellar to help
support your house.

1992
01:39:26,640 --> 01:39:28,440
They just do Stonewall right
there.

1993
01:39:28,480 --> 01:39:31,320
And they built that out of
smaller stones than what the

1994
01:39:31,320 --> 01:39:36,040
original buildings did.
And why did Patty's chose this?

1995
01:39:36,040 --> 01:39:40,040
I think, you know, maybe because
the courtyard served as a

1996
01:39:40,040 --> 01:39:41,640
foundation.
It saved them building a

1997
01:39:41,640 --> 01:39:43,520
foundation.
That's a lot of work digging A

1998
01:39:43,520 --> 01:39:47,120
cellar hole and what have you.
They owned the land going back

1999
01:39:47,120 --> 01:39:49,640
to 1741.
They had bought the first piece

2000
01:39:49,640 --> 01:39:52,480
of property there.
I'm sorry, 1734.

2001
01:39:52,600 --> 01:39:56,360
That was Seth.
And then in 1744, they bought

2002
01:39:56,360 --> 01:39:59,080
another piece of property that
include this site.

2003
01:39:59,080 --> 01:40:04,080
And then in the 1750s, when
Salem, NH, was incorporated.

2004
01:40:04,600 --> 01:40:08,160
You start to see houses going up
and the patties are pretty well

2005
01:40:08,160 --> 01:40:12,640
known in Salem.
In fact, Patty's later in time,

2006
01:40:13,080 --> 01:40:15,520
Patty's worked on the trolley
system in Salem.

2007
01:40:15,520 --> 01:40:18,080
You know, Jonathan was a
Shoemaker.

2008
01:40:18,160 --> 01:40:22,520
He was a road surveyor.
He took, he was a tax collector

2009
01:40:22,520 --> 01:40:25,680
around 1800 for three years.
So he collected taxes.

2010
01:40:26,080 --> 01:40:28,560
He had two sons.
He had eleven daughters, a lot

2011
01:40:28,560 --> 01:40:32,640
of kids.
And he also that involved with

2012
01:40:32,760 --> 01:40:35,840
the town paupers, you would put
a bid into the town of Salem.

2013
01:40:35,840 --> 01:40:39,480
I have the book 1837 all
handwritten back to 31.

2014
01:40:39,880 --> 01:40:42,640
And Jonathan and other people
would put a bid in with the town

2015
01:40:42,640 --> 01:40:49,400
and Jonathan won, I guess if you
want to say the lottery as well

2016
01:40:49,400 --> 01:40:52,680
as a couple other people were
also winners, if you will.

2017
01:40:53,160 --> 01:40:55,240
And they took in the town
paupers of poor people.

2018
01:40:55,240 --> 01:40:58,200
And they did that for six years.
The people that couldn't take

2019
01:40:58,200 --> 01:41:01,920
care of themselves any longer,
he had the 11 of them, I believe

2020
01:41:01,920 --> 01:41:05,640
in his house at one time.
So when his children's, he had

2021
01:41:05,640 --> 01:41:09,080
like 13 kids by the time they
all moved away, empty nest as he

2022
01:41:09,080 --> 01:41:11,280
had room in his house, I guess
for these poppers.

2023
01:41:11,680 --> 01:41:15,000
And like one year he made like
360 bucks or something, which

2024
01:41:15,000 --> 01:41:18,240
probably in the 18, you know,
30s was quite a bit of money.

2025
01:41:18,800 --> 01:41:21,640
By 1837 was his last year to do
that.

2026
01:41:21,800 --> 01:41:25,360
And by 38 he no longer did that.
The town of Salem I guess had

2027
01:41:25,360 --> 01:41:28,640
built a poor farm too.
So I'm not sure that anybody

2028
01:41:28,640 --> 01:41:31,480
could bids in anymore.
But he did not do that any

2029
01:41:31,480 --> 01:41:33,480
longer.
But he did start getting

2030
01:41:33,480 --> 01:41:37,800
involved with taking in slaves.
He was an abolitionist or he was

2031
01:41:37,800 --> 01:41:41,680
a station master, part of the
slaves moving N towards Canada,

2032
01:41:41,960 --> 01:41:44,040
one of the many stops along the
way.

2033
01:41:44,320 --> 01:41:48,480
So this also disturbed historic
so you can imagine a wooden

2034
01:41:48,480 --> 01:41:51,120
house sitting over there.
You know that house today we

2035
01:41:51,120 --> 01:41:56,440
believe, is down on Havill Road,
the road that's Rd. that where

2036
01:41:56,440 --> 01:41:58,480
our pocket might goes into.
It's our main road.

2037
01:41:58,720 --> 01:42:04,040
Across the street is a house
that in 19 O 7 the history of

2038
01:42:04,040 --> 01:42:07,840
Salem came out by Edgar Gilbert
in a picture from the eighty 90s

2039
01:42:07,840 --> 01:42:10,080
has the whole Patty family
standing in front of that house.

2040
01:42:10,080 --> 01:42:12,520
What we think is the house they
took down the chimney.

2041
01:42:12,720 --> 01:42:15,680
They took out probably windows,
furniture, They moved the house

2042
01:42:16,000 --> 01:42:18,840
and there's a road that goes
from this site right down on the

2043
01:42:18,840 --> 01:42:22,200
hill right to right in front of
that house is sitting today.

2044
01:42:22,720 --> 01:42:24,480
And that house is sitting down
there.

2045
01:42:24,920 --> 01:42:28,840
And apparently it this house was
brought down there and it got

2046
01:42:28,840 --> 01:42:32,360
damaged by fire around 19 O
three or something.

2047
01:42:32,360 --> 01:42:35,400
Because everybody said a few
years ago the house burnt was

2048
01:42:35,400 --> 01:42:37,960
damaged by fire and then they
had to, you know, repair,

2049
01:42:37,960 --> 01:42:42,600
rebuild it.
The story became we think later

2050
01:42:42,600 --> 01:42:46,720
on is that Jonathan Patty died
in 1849 and 1855.

2051
01:42:46,720 --> 01:42:48,160
His house burnt down on the
hill.

2052
01:42:48,440 --> 01:42:54,080
We think that's a messed up or
mixed up history of the thing

2053
01:42:54,200 --> 01:42:56,120
because it's right in Edgar
Gilbert's foot.

2054
01:42:56,320 --> 01:43:00,040
So we think the house is not
burnt here because they said the

2055
01:43:00,040 --> 01:43:02,880
archaeologists that worked on
this, like Goodwin, Franklin and

2056
01:43:02,880 --> 01:43:07,480
other people never found enough
ash or Chadwood or anything to

2057
01:43:07,480 --> 01:43:09,320
indicate a whole house was
consumed there.

2058
01:43:09,560 --> 01:43:12,640
It doesn't make any sense.
This is years ago, you know, And

2059
01:43:12,640 --> 01:43:14,960
looking at the book a little
closer, Edgar Gill, because we

2060
01:43:14,960 --> 01:43:17,520
have several copies of the
history of Salem, it looks like

2061
01:43:17,520 --> 01:43:19,400
the house was brought down the
street.

2062
01:43:19,640 --> 01:43:21,600
It sat on the foundation for a
foot.

2063
01:43:22,120 --> 01:43:26,600
Probably 1863 is that's when the
Patty family sold the property

2064
01:43:26,600 --> 01:43:30,520
to a guy named Nathaniel H Paul.
For 28, eight years.

2065
01:43:31,000 --> 01:43:34,160
Nathaniel H Paul used it as a
wood lot and he had a sawmill

2066
01:43:34,160 --> 01:43:35,880
down the street at Cowbell
Corner.

2067
01:43:36,320 --> 01:43:40,320
So it goes out of the Patty
family for 28 years and we think

2068
01:43:40,360 --> 01:43:44,440
before that happened, they moved
the house down there and where

2069
01:43:44,440 --> 01:43:50,000
the house sits today was one
time of the Dow Tavern, Dow, the

2070
01:43:50,240 --> 01:43:53,800
Dow family Tavern and that burnt
down there that actually got

2071
01:43:53,800 --> 01:43:56,440
destroyed by fire, I guess.
So this house was brought down

2072
01:43:56,440 --> 01:43:59,520
the hill to sit where the, that
makes sense because a lot of, if

2073
01:43:59,880 --> 01:44:01,880
you look at the history here,
especially in New England, they

2074
01:44:01,880 --> 01:44:05,880
were moving around houses,
carriage houses, meeting houses.

2075
01:44:06,400 --> 01:44:08,640
Every time you look at, we have
a show called Chronicle in the,

2076
01:44:09,080 --> 01:44:11,440
in New Hampshire and our local
ABC affiliate, we've been on it

2077
01:44:11,440 --> 01:44:13,120
many times.
And they have a gentleman on

2078
01:44:13,120 --> 01:44:15,160
there named Prince Wetherby.
He'll get into some of this

2079
01:44:15,160 --> 01:44:17,760
because that old school house
used to be in another part of

2080
01:44:17,760 --> 01:44:19,600
town.
That church was over here.

2081
01:44:19,840 --> 01:44:21,520
They moved it, they added on to
it.

2082
01:44:21,720 --> 01:44:23,840
You know, the carriage, you
know, it goes on and on like

2083
01:44:23,840 --> 01:44:25,240
that.
So this house is brought down

2084
01:44:25,240 --> 01:44:27,080
the hill.
We think it was set up over

2085
01:44:27,080 --> 01:44:33,600
there and 1863 roughly and then
it burns around 19-O3 or O2 and

2086
01:44:33,600 --> 01:44:35,800
then they repaired it and it
sits there today.

2087
01:44:37,160 --> 01:44:43,240
But actually the guy gave
Ebenezer, Ebenezer Dustin bought

2088
01:44:43,240 --> 01:44:45,320
the property.
He was a Paddy family member.

2089
01:44:45,320 --> 01:44:48,680
And then it goes to back to
another Paddy and then it goes

2090
01:44:48,680 --> 01:44:52,280
to Fred Dustin and then it goes
to William Goodwin.

2091
01:44:52,280 --> 01:44:55,920
So the almost 200 years of
Patty's involvement, except for

2092
01:44:55,920 --> 01:44:58,400
that 28 year with a lumber man,
you know?

2093
01:44:59,600 --> 01:45:03,640
And so the the Patty family had
built a structure up here using

2094
01:45:03,640 --> 01:45:08,040
some of these old walls as as
kind of a foundation.

2095
01:45:08,040 --> 01:45:10,240
Then they later moved the house
down the hill.

2096
01:45:11,000 --> 01:45:12,240
We think so exactly.
Yep.

2097
01:45:12,800 --> 01:45:15,120
So what did we find out?
We'd lie down.

2098
01:45:16,480 --> 01:45:20,440
Hang tight real quick, Dennis.
Is there any indication that

2099
01:45:20,440 --> 01:45:25,840
this this structure here was
built by the Paddy family at

2100
01:45:25,840 --> 01:45:28,000
all?
We think it's original.

2101
01:45:28,360 --> 01:45:32,480
There's no, you know, it's got
the same style, big stone slabs,

2102
01:45:32,480 --> 01:45:34,520
no drill marks in the original
stone work.

2103
01:45:34,680 --> 01:45:37,640
We think it's original.
Patty may have used it as a root

2104
01:45:37,640 --> 01:45:41,120
cellar because inside of it you
can see where some cement, the

2105
01:45:41,120 --> 01:45:45,520
only structure up there is the
cement into the walls to

2106
01:45:45,520 --> 01:45:50,320
probably to make it more
watertight or weatherproof it.

2107
01:45:50,640 --> 01:45:53,200
And he might have kept some of
his vegetables because his house

2108
01:45:53,200 --> 01:45:56,440
that over that usually root
Cellars were generally, but not

2109
01:45:56,440 --> 01:46:00,240
always inside of houses.
I saw one down in Virginia near

2110
01:46:00,240 --> 01:46:02,680
the natural, what do you call
it, Natural Bridge.

2111
01:46:02,720 --> 01:46:05,520
Beautiful place there.
We stayed at a beautiful place

2112
01:46:05,520 --> 01:46:08,600
down there and I looked in the
backyard and I asked the owner,

2113
01:46:08,600 --> 01:46:10,000
what is that?
And goes, that's a root cellar.

2114
01:46:10,000 --> 01:46:12,720
And I went down and looked at it
and it was outside separate from

2115
01:46:12,720 --> 01:46:14,440
the house.
But in New England, because of

2116
01:46:14,440 --> 01:46:16,160
the winters and everything, a
lot of these root Cellars are

2117
01:46:16,160 --> 01:46:18,440
underneath Cellars.
I think that's an, I think

2118
01:46:18,440 --> 01:46:20,760
that's an ancient chamber.
It's of the same style as the

2119
01:46:20,760 --> 01:46:25,160
other structures, but the Paddy
family chinks water into the

2120
01:46:25,160 --> 01:46:26,920
wall.
And I think it was just to make

2121
01:46:26,920 --> 01:46:28,920
it more watertight, airtight or
whatever.

2122
01:46:29,360 --> 01:46:32,080
You do want to have root Cellars
that do have ventilation though.

2123
01:46:32,080 --> 01:46:33,520
That's one thing.
And that little window may have

2124
01:46:33,520 --> 01:46:36,520
served is that so?
I think it is an ancient

2125
01:46:36,520 --> 01:46:38,600
structure.
The Paddy house sat over it

2126
01:46:38,720 --> 01:46:42,280
actually right on top of that
roof was actually a fireplace

2127
01:46:42,280 --> 01:46:46,040
har made out of brick.
So he put his house right over

2128
01:46:46,040 --> 01:46:49,920
that whole thing utilizing that
chamber, I'm sure for probably

2129
01:46:49,920 --> 01:46:53,080
storing some of his, you know,
his vegetables or something for

2130
01:46:53,080 --> 01:46:55,480
winter.
But I think it's an original

2131
01:46:55,480 --> 01:46:59,480
chamber and a chamber kind of on
the other.

2132
01:47:00,240 --> 01:47:03,120
Yeah, it was an original chamber
that he found and then

2133
01:47:03,120 --> 01:47:05,360
repurposed.
I think it made it, yeah.

2134
01:47:05,360 --> 01:47:08,000
It's probably one of the one of
the things that drew him to

2135
01:47:08,000 --> 01:47:10,960
this, besides owning the land,
like, hey, we got a foundation

2136
01:47:10,960 --> 01:47:13,320
here, we can modify it, put a
house over it.

2137
01:47:13,560 --> 01:47:15,680
We got a chamber here we can use
for root cellar.

2138
01:47:15,680 --> 01:47:18,160
It's already here.
And what you can't see, we are

2139
01:47:18,160 --> 01:47:19,960
standing.
There's more roof slabs to

2140
01:47:19,960 --> 01:47:22,080
another structure, just the
opposite that one.

2141
01:47:22,280 --> 01:47:25,200
There's a couple roof slabs, you
know, and I think in the

2142
01:47:25,200 --> 01:47:28,680
foreground you can see the
outline of a square, kind of

2143
01:47:29,160 --> 01:47:32,880
square or right angled wood
that's part of the upper upper

2144
01:47:32,880 --> 01:47:34,880
well.
If it that's the upper well, the

2145
01:47:34,880 --> 01:47:36,720
bottom of that upper well is 23
feet down.

2146
01:47:36,720 --> 01:47:40,080
That's where they found the
quartz crystals in 1963.

2147
01:47:40,800 --> 01:47:43,000
There's no water that goes into
it from the spring.

2148
01:47:43,000 --> 01:47:44,600
It's all rainwater and snow
melt.

2149
01:47:44,600 --> 01:47:46,800
It's 23 feet deep.
It's bigger at the bottom than

2150
01:47:46,800 --> 01:47:49,640
the top.
My dad cleaned it out in 63.

2151
01:47:49,720 --> 01:47:52,320
The project was sighted in 61
way up to the bottom.

2152
01:47:52,320 --> 01:47:55,360
It's on these beautiful quartz
crystals which were on display

2153
01:47:55,560 --> 01:47:57,840
in our building today.
I thought that that might be a

2154
01:47:57,840 --> 01:48:00,440
mine shaft because again, it's
the only water that goes in

2155
01:48:00,440 --> 01:48:03,040
there is when it rains and it's
dry most of the year, you know,

2156
01:48:03,600 --> 01:48:06,480
and there's only a thin wall
between it and the Patty cellar.

2157
01:48:06,920 --> 01:48:10,720
But just behind that with that
Weld, as you can see that

2158
01:48:10,800 --> 01:48:13,360
there's a screen on with that
wood is is actually another part

2159
01:48:13,360 --> 01:48:16,680
of a chamber fence, kind of keep
people from following it.

2160
01:48:16,680 --> 01:48:19,680
There was a fence two there.
And then it has that over the

2161
01:48:19,680 --> 01:48:22,840
top just as additional
protection for people and

2162
01:48:22,840 --> 01:48:26,120
animals, if you will, and to
keep people from throwing things

2163
01:48:26,120 --> 01:48:28,600
down there too.
But there is a structure to the

2164
01:48:28,600 --> 01:48:31,440
left you can't see and it has
two big gigantic roof slabs.

2165
01:48:31,680 --> 01:48:34,040
And you pointed out one up there
where the chamber and ruin is.

2166
01:48:34,320 --> 01:48:36,840
There's one just to the left of
that that's on its edge.

2167
01:48:36,920 --> 01:48:40,720
Two, we think there are two
large chambers here at one time.

2168
01:48:41,000 --> 01:48:42,840
The patties probably
cannibalize.

2169
01:48:42,840 --> 01:48:46,560
The one on the left is a closet
that was where the inside of it

2170
01:48:46,560 --> 01:48:49,880
was, the closet still in perfect
shape of stone closet.

2171
01:48:50,560 --> 01:48:53,760
And they actually probably used
some of the stones to help, you

2172
01:48:53,760 --> 01:48:57,440
know, build that foundation in
the middle for support.

2173
01:48:58,120 --> 01:49:02,680
I will say the Lidar, we started
using the handheld LIDAR in 2020

2174
01:49:02,680 --> 01:49:05,400
by Tom Elmore.
He was the first one to do Lidar

2175
01:49:05,400 --> 01:49:08,520
on the site.
He went into these chambers for

2176
01:49:08,520 --> 01:49:12,880
this lighter.
It's a $50,000 unit and it, it's

2177
01:49:12,880 --> 01:49:15,800
high resolution that you can see
down to a centimeter.

2178
01:49:16,080 --> 01:49:18,400
What he found out is inside that
chamber, he went into the

2179
01:49:18,400 --> 01:49:19,960
chamber and ruined for the
fallen Ruse club.

2180
01:49:19,960 --> 01:49:23,720
That was very difficult for him.
And but what we found out once

2181
01:49:23,720 --> 01:49:26,760
we get all of the data all
processed, it took him a a month

2182
01:49:26,760 --> 01:49:29,560
or so to because he's, he's a
landscape architect and he's

2183
01:49:29,560 --> 01:49:31,720
doing a lot of work.
He had to do this on the side

2184
01:49:32,520 --> 01:49:35,040
and when he came back and he
showed us is almost a TB of

2185
01:49:35,040 --> 01:49:37,280
information.
You can see actually the plan

2186
01:49:37,280 --> 01:49:39,840
view on the Lidar.
And what we're finding is that

2187
01:49:39,840 --> 01:49:45,120
the the floor plan of the Paddy
chamber, the chamber ruins and

2188
01:49:45,120 --> 01:49:48,360
the what we think was a
courtyard that Paddy's house sat

2189
01:49:48,360 --> 01:49:51,520
over that we've been talking
about are all trapezoidal in

2190
01:49:51,520 --> 01:49:53,040
state.
They're not rectangular.

2191
01:49:53,680 --> 01:49:55,680
They drove on top of the
sacrificial table.

2192
01:49:55,680 --> 01:50:01,200
We found out in 2016, the
conversation came up about that

2193
01:50:01,200 --> 01:50:04,120
with the late David Stuart
Smith, and it's been called a

2194
01:50:04,120 --> 01:50:06,520
rectangle forever.
So I went up and really

2195
01:50:06,520 --> 01:50:09,600
carefully measured it and it
actually is 9 inches narrow at

2196
01:50:09,600 --> 01:50:11,800
the top.
The groove is then the bottom.

2197
01:50:11,800 --> 01:50:15,080
It's actually a rectangular
shaped groove, not AI mean a

2198
01:50:15,160 --> 01:50:17,560
trapezoidal shaped groove, not a
rectangular shape.

2199
01:50:18,160 --> 01:50:20,360
And then there's a little,
there's a little alcove near the

2200
01:50:20,360 --> 01:50:23,080
sacrificial table too.
It has two niches in it.

2201
01:50:23,480 --> 01:50:27,040
It's an open air structure.
No roof on it that we know of

2202
01:50:27,040 --> 01:50:28,080
ever.
I mean, it could have.

2203
01:50:28,120 --> 01:50:32,760
There's just no indication today
that is trapezoidal in shape.

2204
01:50:32,760 --> 01:50:35,200
So we have 4 structures of the
trapezoidal shape.

2205
01:50:35,200 --> 01:50:38,920
And then we have a group on the
table chamber in class Town, New

2206
01:50:38,920 --> 01:50:40,040
Hampshire.
I may have mentioned.

2207
01:50:40,040 --> 01:50:43,160
It's like a single chamber over
about 10 miles from this site.

2208
01:50:43,400 --> 01:50:45,400
We've known about it since the
60s, at least.

2209
01:50:45,400 --> 01:50:48,080
People knew about it way back
when, but my family became more

2210
01:50:48,080 --> 01:50:50,360
aware of it, I think in the 60s
when we first visited it.

2211
01:50:50,920 --> 01:50:53,520
We did it last year.
We did some measuring in it and

2212
01:50:53,520 --> 01:50:55,280
found out it's a trapezoidal
shape too.

2213
01:50:55,280 --> 01:50:57,840
And it has a core belt roof,
longitude right along the

2214
01:50:57,840 --> 01:51:00,680
longitudinal axis.
And I was just looking at the

2215
01:51:00,680 --> 01:51:03,760
Newton, New Hampshire chamber,
which I was there 26 years ago,

2216
01:51:05,000 --> 01:51:06,680
and I was looking at the
sketches of that.

2217
01:51:06,720 --> 01:51:10,320
And that thing has a core
building along the longitudinal

2218
01:51:10,320 --> 01:51:12,880
axis too, Core buildings, that
inverted staircase kind of

2219
01:51:12,880 --> 01:51:14,760
thing.
The Oracle chamber has it on the

2220
01:51:14,760 --> 01:51:18,360
east wing.
Looks like a archway where these

2221
01:51:18,360 --> 01:51:23,240
chambers here, like a one like a
Paddy chamber actually, the

2222
01:51:23,240 --> 01:51:26,240
walls go up straight and then
the roof slab sits on it.

2223
01:51:26,240 --> 01:51:29,240
So it's kind of vertical
construction with Platt slabs.

2224
01:51:29,800 --> 01:51:33,520
But these chambers have big
slabs on them too.

2225
01:51:33,520 --> 01:51:36,760
But as you go up the walls on
the sides, the walls curved in

2226
01:51:36,760 --> 01:51:38,320
with that's called core
building.

2227
01:51:38,720 --> 01:51:41,920
An extreme example of that would
be a beehive chamber in Ireland

2228
01:51:42,360 --> 01:51:44,320
and we have some of those in
England too.

2229
01:51:44,720 --> 01:51:47,320
And the inside of Newgrange, as
I mentioned, the upping chamber

2230
01:51:47,320 --> 01:51:49,120
in Massachusetts, they both look
the same.

2231
01:51:49,120 --> 01:51:53,120
We've been to both.
The one in Ireland, Newgrange, I

2232
01:51:53,120 --> 01:51:56,440
think it's 14 feet tall.
The one in Massachusetts and

2233
01:51:56,440 --> 01:51:59,640
Upton that Malcolm Pearson's
family owned before he had This

2234
01:51:59,640 --> 01:52:02,240
site is actually 10 feet by 10
feet.

2235
01:52:02,240 --> 01:52:07,080
It looks like a gigantic igloo
shape with a 14 foot entrance

2236
01:52:07,400 --> 01:52:10,000
and that's and so it's got core
building in there too.

2237
01:52:10,000 --> 01:52:15,640
So that is on in 1969, the white
paint you'll see in the rock

2238
01:52:15,920 --> 01:52:19,120
indicates man made cutouts and
carvings that has a kind of a

2239
01:52:19,120 --> 01:52:20,560
tray.
It's so hard to see there, but

2240
01:52:20,560 --> 01:52:24,240
that hole isn't perfectly drawn.
It's actually triangular state.

2241
01:52:24,600 --> 01:52:28,520
And then the groove outside the
white paint, the circle actually

2242
01:52:28,520 --> 01:52:31,000
is a groove that's been crudely
cut into the stone.

2243
01:52:31,360 --> 01:52:33,720
And in 1969, they were doing
some cleaning there, and they

2244
01:52:33,720 --> 01:52:37,400
discovered that some people
called it a sundial, you know,

2245
01:52:37,400 --> 01:52:39,880
put a little stake in there.
It would cast a shadow.

2246
01:52:40,360 --> 01:52:42,640
That was just a thought.
We have no idea what this thing

2247
01:52:42,640 --> 01:52:45,320
is for.
It doesn't seem to be any kind

2248
01:52:45,320 --> 01:52:47,680
of purpose for grinding or
anything like that because the

2249
01:52:47,680 --> 01:52:52,480
rock is very rough.
And that triangular hole.

2250
01:52:52,480 --> 01:52:54,280
We have a couple of them on the
site.

2251
01:52:55,640 --> 01:52:59,120
I was going to say, I saw these.
I saw these all over the place

2252
01:52:59,120 --> 01:53:00,800
out there.
I was curious about them.

2253
01:53:01,760 --> 01:53:04,480
Most of them are perfectly round
and you see half of it.

2254
01:53:04,640 --> 01:53:08,520
You use a star drill and once
they put a couple of these

2255
01:53:08,520 --> 01:53:12,640
across one of the slabs all in
line, it kind of perforate the

2256
01:53:12,640 --> 01:53:14,840
slab.
They'll put in these two tapered

2257
01:53:14,840 --> 01:53:18,280
metal guides and then a wedge
and they would strike these back

2258
01:53:18,280 --> 01:53:20,480
and forth and get a certain tone
and then the rock would

2259
01:53:20,480 --> 01:53:23,240
eventually split.
That technique started in the

2260
01:53:23,240 --> 01:53:28,880
1780s from the best I can tell.
The star drill and the the plug

2261
01:53:28,880 --> 01:53:32,240
in feather or wedge and feathers
were started then.

2262
01:53:32,240 --> 01:53:34,720
We think this is during the
Patty area because when the

2263
01:53:34,720 --> 01:53:38,200
patties were here up to they
sold the house in 1863.

2264
01:53:38,360 --> 01:53:41,720
Sometime before that they had
quarrymen coming in and removing

2265
01:53:41,720 --> 01:53:44,840
a great deal of the site.
We think maybe 1/2 of the site.

2266
01:53:45,480 --> 01:53:48,760
It could be anywhere from 1/3 to
1/2 of the sites missing Today

2267
01:53:49,160 --> 01:53:51,080
they were coming up and the
story goes you're up there for

2268
01:53:51,080 --> 01:53:54,640
three years in a row, probably
seasonally taking rock pot load

2269
01:53:54,640 --> 01:53:57,800
after the cot load of rock away
for other building projects.

2270
01:53:58,160 --> 01:54:00,600
And Patty being a tax man for a
couple years.

2271
01:54:00,600 --> 01:54:03,320
Do some of the tax laws.
It was a court thing called a

2272
01:54:03,320 --> 01:54:05,480
quarry tax, believe it or not.
So if they came onto your

2273
01:54:05,480 --> 01:54:07,960
property and actually quarried
stone and paid you for it, there

2274
01:54:07,960 --> 01:54:11,240
was a tax you had to pay.
But if the stones were already

2275
01:54:11,240 --> 01:54:14,000
boost like these were already
quarried by the the ancient

2276
01:54:14,000 --> 01:54:16,920
builders, you didn't have to
worry about paying a little bit

2277
01:54:16,920 --> 01:54:19,160
of that income.
You have to keep it all, I

2278
01:54:19,160 --> 01:54:21,000
guess, which is kind of nice
when you can do that.

2279
01:54:21,920 --> 01:54:25,720
So the Pelican feather, I think
there's about 16 of those.

2280
01:54:26,080 --> 01:54:28,600
That's a good point too, David.
If this site was all built by

2281
01:54:28,600 --> 01:54:31,440
the Patty family or somebody in
that area, you would have seen

2282
01:54:31,600 --> 01:54:35,800
hundreds of these drill mocks
made with the star drill and

2283
01:54:36,400 --> 01:54:39,200
where they would set the plug
and feather in on the roof

2284
01:54:39,200 --> 01:54:42,520
slabs, wall slabs, the edge of
the sacrificial table, the stone

2285
01:54:42,520 --> 01:54:45,120
monoliths, the orchestep.
You would see hundreds and

2286
01:54:45,120 --> 01:54:48,760
hundreds of these markings if it
was done during the, you know,

2287
01:54:48,760 --> 01:54:51,160
the Metal Age rather than the
Stone Age, if you will.

2288
01:54:51,200 --> 01:54:52,680
But you do see.
Absolutely.

2289
01:54:53,480 --> 01:54:55,800
Some of them from the coy men
that were taking rocks away from

2290
01:54:55,800 --> 01:54:57,280
this item.
That's unfortunate.

2291
01:54:57,280 --> 01:54:58,480
That does happen though, you
know.

2292
01:55:00,200 --> 01:55:01,320
Absolutely.
All right.

2293
01:55:01,320 --> 01:55:07,840
Let me find another one here.
Bear with me, OK, This is just I

2294
01:55:07,880 --> 01:55:11,760
and I wanted to show this
picture here to give people some

2295
01:55:11,760 --> 01:55:14,480
idea.
The thing that strikes me about

2296
01:55:14,480 --> 01:55:17,800
this is these are very defined
corners, right?

2297
01:55:18,360 --> 01:55:23,240
Whoever built this stuff really
took time to get the, the, the

2298
01:55:23,240 --> 01:55:26,320
angles correctly.
And given the fact that it's

2299
01:55:26,360 --> 01:55:34,120
definitely an, you know, a site
that employs, you know, Astro

2300
01:55:35,680 --> 01:55:38,720
lines, you know, the, the
solstices, they have stones that

2301
01:55:38,720 --> 01:55:42,840
mark those.
I, I was curious if any of these

2302
01:55:42,840 --> 01:55:46,600
structures, other than the
stones that mark the solstice

2303
01:55:46,600 --> 01:55:50,960
and the equinox themselves, do
we know if any of these other

2304
01:55:50,960 --> 01:55:57,920
buildings seem to be erected in,
in, in alignment with the stars

2305
01:55:57,920 --> 01:56:00,200
or the solstices or anything
like that?

2306
01:56:00,200 --> 01:56:03,840
Dennis.
Well, the the orientation of the

2307
01:56:03,840 --> 01:56:06,400
structures on the site, mainly
the walls.

2308
01:56:06,400 --> 01:56:10,120
You know, the structures are
generally in a north-south, east

2309
01:56:10,120 --> 01:56:12,200
and West at a true north
orientation.

2310
01:56:12,400 --> 01:56:16,160
Generally speaking, some of the
entrances are facing S, some of

2311
01:56:16,160 --> 01:56:20,680
them are facing east and the
Oracle chamber was facing true

2312
01:56:20,680 --> 01:56:23,840
West.
The little stones are missing

2313
01:56:23,840 --> 01:56:27,120
now, but yeah.
And then we have the as I

2314
01:56:27,120 --> 01:56:29,840
mentioned, the Watch House has
the orientation towards the

2315
01:56:29,840 --> 01:56:33,040
equinox sunrise illumination, so
that's kind of cool too.

2316
01:56:33,720 --> 01:56:36,280
Some of the other structures in
New England are facing true S,

2317
01:56:36,720 --> 01:56:39,000
the plasto chamber is facing
true.

2318
01:56:39,520 --> 01:56:43,760
I believe it's true.
I'm going to say W for sunset on

2319
01:56:43,760 --> 01:56:48,800
the fall and spring equinox and
a couple other structures are

2320
01:56:48,800 --> 01:56:52,280
facing the winter solstice
alignment like the Woodstock

2321
01:56:52,280 --> 01:56:55,000
Calendar 2 is facing winter
solstice sunrise.

2322
01:56:55,000 --> 01:56:58,080
And that's a really interesting
Vermont is loaded with these

2323
01:56:58,080 --> 01:57:00,000
chambers.
That's probably the most famous

2324
01:57:00,000 --> 01:57:03,680
called calendar 2 in Woodstock,
Vt, a beautiful town up there.

2325
01:57:03,680 --> 01:57:06,320
We were there twice in the last
couple years and we were there

2326
01:57:06,320 --> 01:57:09,960
in 77 for the first time.
But that that direction there,

2327
01:57:09,960 --> 01:57:11,960
you're looking opposite the
Paddy chamber.

2328
01:57:11,960 --> 01:57:16,040
You're looking, you're looking S
you can see one roof slab still

2329
01:57:16,040 --> 01:57:17,840
on the structure.
If you look a little further,

2330
01:57:17,840 --> 01:57:20,080
you see a space and then you see
another roof slab.

2331
01:57:20,520 --> 01:57:22,680
And that's actually a cool
picture because that second roof

2332
01:57:22,680 --> 01:57:25,960
slab that's kind of down the
edge of it you can see has like

2333
01:57:25,960 --> 01:57:29,240
a little Ridge in it that's
actually a 90° cut.

2334
01:57:29,520 --> 01:57:32,080
Somebody actually made a lap
joint out of that stone.

2335
01:57:32,080 --> 01:57:35,280
So that's like not by somebody.
There's no metal tools.

2336
01:57:35,600 --> 01:57:37,720
David Stewart Smith is the one
that brought it to our

2337
01:57:37,720 --> 01:57:39,520
attention.
You know, we can look at these

2338
01:57:39,520 --> 01:57:42,200
things for years.
He came along in 78, sometime

2339
01:57:42,200 --> 01:57:45,080
after 1978.
He mentioned that he goes that

2340
01:57:45,400 --> 01:57:48,280
stone there is slipped down and
actually supposed to be against

2341
01:57:48,280 --> 01:57:51,920
that stone on top, the higher
one on the on the far side of

2342
01:57:51,920 --> 01:57:55,200
that upper one.
Yeah, just on the opposite edge

2343
01:57:55,200 --> 01:57:57,720
though, just the opposite of
that, down towards where the

2344
01:57:57,720 --> 01:58:00,960
opening is.
That stone that slipped down

2345
01:58:00,960 --> 01:58:03,320
with that notch on the edge of
it, it's a lap joint.

2346
01:58:03,320 --> 01:58:05,320
It actually fits and you measure
that and everything, it actually

2347
01:58:05,320 --> 01:58:07,000
would fit together.
So those stones are actually

2348
01:58:07,000 --> 01:58:09,120
joined together with that lap
joint.

2349
01:58:09,480 --> 01:58:12,760
That stone for some reason, has
fallen down, not where it

2350
01:58:12,760 --> 01:58:15,200
originally was supposed to.
It's just an odd thing.

2351
01:58:15,200 --> 01:58:16,760
We really don't know what this
chamber is.

2352
01:58:16,760 --> 01:58:19,640
It's so different than the other
ones, but it does consist of two

2353
01:58:19,640 --> 01:58:23,080
big slabs of stone.
And again, one of them kind of

2354
01:58:23,360 --> 01:58:26,520
fell to the South, if you will.
The one you're pointing at is

2355
01:58:26,520 --> 01:58:28,800
still in its original place from
what we know.

2356
01:58:29,280 --> 01:58:32,000
And you're kind of looking in
the direction of the of the

2357
01:58:32,120 --> 01:58:35,520
lower well in the swamp area.
We were talking about a little

2358
01:58:35,520 --> 01:58:38,480
bit area that's kind of beyond
that picture, you know, probably

2359
01:58:38,480 --> 01:58:41,240
about 100 feet.
And to the left of the arrow is

2360
01:58:41,240 --> 01:58:44,640
where the upper well was.
So, and if we turned around the

2361
01:58:44,640 --> 01:58:46,560
camera right now, we'd be
looking back into the Paddy

2362
01:58:46,560 --> 01:58:48,920
chamber, so.
Right.

2363
01:58:49,600 --> 01:58:52,000
I was curious that.
Yeah, no, that that answers my

2364
01:58:52,000 --> 01:58:55,000
question because I was curious
about this.

2365
01:58:55,000 --> 01:58:57,320
I'm like it.
It just seemed kind of like a a

2366
01:58:57,520 --> 01:59:01,320
strange place just to have like
a rock walkway, you know what I

2367
01:59:01,320 --> 01:59:02,080
mean?
Yeah.

2368
01:59:02,080 --> 01:59:03,640
And.
It's a, it's a, it's a roof

2369
01:59:03,640 --> 01:59:06,320
slab, yeah.
Yep, absolutely.

2370
01:59:06,360 --> 01:59:09,200
If you put the arrow back, yeah,
if you put the arrow back in the

2371
01:59:09,200 --> 01:59:11,720
middle, go down a little bit,
but maybe down a couple inches,

2372
01:59:11,720 --> 01:59:13,360
right there is where that lip
is.

2373
01:59:13,840 --> 01:59:16,400
Right along that Ridge there
left and right of your arrow is

2374
01:59:16,400 --> 01:59:19,400
that lap joint and that whole
stone should come towards us and

2375
01:59:19,400 --> 01:59:22,320
up and it would actually touch
that top stone there on the

2376
01:59:22,320 --> 01:59:23,840
other side.
They actually went into lock

2377
01:59:23,840 --> 01:59:26,600
actually, and that's the only
one we know of on the site.

2378
01:59:26,600 --> 01:59:29,280
Unless the Oracle chamber roof
has that and it's under dirt, we

2379
01:59:29,280 --> 01:59:31,600
can't see it.
So they actually created lap

2380
01:59:31,600 --> 01:59:34,000
joints like you do when you like
we would.

2381
01:59:34,560 --> 01:59:36,200
We did our cabin up in
Winnipesaukee.

2382
01:59:36,200 --> 01:59:38,320
We had, I think it was called
what they call it strip lap or

2383
01:59:38,320 --> 01:59:39,800
whatever, kind of the same
thing.

2384
01:59:39,800 --> 01:59:42,240
You know, the we'd actually goes
together like a puzzle almost,

2385
01:59:42,240 --> 01:59:43,440
you know, they fit into each
other.

2386
01:59:43,440 --> 01:59:46,480
You know, that's what that rock
is actually should be brought up

2387
01:59:46,560 --> 01:59:47,400
and towards us.
Yeah.

2388
01:59:48,360 --> 01:59:50,520
Few years back I started to get
the feeling that we, as

2389
01:59:50,520 --> 01:59:53,720
fundamentalists and orthodox
Mormons, we need our own stuff.

2390
01:59:54,080 --> 01:59:56,640
Up to now, we've been able to
buy and purchase all of our

2391
01:59:56,640 --> 02:00:00,400
scriptures, books, art, and
music from other restoration

2392
02:00:00,400 --> 02:00:02,600
organizations, and that's been
good.

2393
02:00:02,800 --> 02:00:05,400
But there's no guarantee it's
going to remain that way.

2394
02:00:05,920 --> 02:00:09,320
Also, it can be a bit tricky as
you scour the Internet trying to

2395
02:00:09,320 --> 02:00:12,520
find all the books from your
favorite fundamentalist or

2396
02:00:12,520 --> 02:00:15,840
orthodox Mormon authors.
As I thought about this, I feel

2397
02:00:15,840 --> 02:00:17,480
like I was really given a
solution.

2398
02:00:17,880 --> 02:00:20,320
Now, through the hard work of
others, because let's face it,

2399
02:00:20,600 --> 02:00:23,360
I'm the guy least qualified in
all the world to build a

2400
02:00:23,360 --> 02:00:27,600
website, I'm happy to present to
you 1830 mercantile.org.

2401
02:00:28,240 --> 02:00:31,280
Right now on the website you can
see that we have all the books

2402
02:00:31,280 --> 02:00:34,280
have ever been written by 4
authors, including names like

2403
02:00:34,280 --> 02:00:38,040
Drew, Briny and Ogdenkraut.
Also very soon there will be a

2404
02:00:38,040 --> 02:00:42,680
link to buy art and music all
produced by Mormons with a deep

2405
02:00:42,680 --> 02:00:46,040
love for the restored gospel.
There's also places for you to

2406
02:00:46,040 --> 02:00:50,360
get free resources where you can
find podcast videos, classes,

2407
02:00:50,360 --> 02:00:54,080
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Also coming very soon there will

2408
02:00:54,080 --> 02:00:57,280
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can list the events from your

2409
02:00:57,280 --> 02:01:01,040
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the most out of that attendance.

2410
02:01:01,600 --> 02:01:04,000
Now this can be as big as you
want it to be.

2411
02:01:04,000 --> 02:01:07,040
It's all up to you guys out
there if you want to buy and

2412
02:01:07,040 --> 02:01:09,800
post things on here.
Now, if you're someone who

2413
02:01:09,800 --> 02:01:13,000
produces something that you feel
like others can benefit from,

2414
02:01:13,320 --> 02:01:16,760
1830 Mercantile is a place where
you can make all of those

2415
02:01:16,760 --> 02:01:20,120
products available for purchase.
All you need to do is drop me an

2416
02:01:20,120 --> 02:01:23,240
e-mail at
mormonrenegade@gmail.com and put

2417
02:01:23,240 --> 02:01:27,520
1830 in in the title of that
e-mail with a short message and

2418
02:01:27,520 --> 02:01:30,680
either myself or someone else
from the 1830 Mercantile team

2419
02:01:30,880 --> 02:01:33,640
will reach out to you so we can
get your product up there on the

2420
02:01:33,640 --> 02:01:37,960
site.
Now to make sure that all the

2421
02:01:37,960 --> 02:01:41,640
products that we offer are
affordable and to ensure that

2422
02:01:41,640 --> 02:01:46,120
the vast majority of the profits
go to the producer, the website

2423
02:01:46,120 --> 02:01:50,080
percentage is only three to 4%
of the total cost.

2424
02:01:50,080 --> 02:01:52,880
And that's just so I can pay the
pros that have created this

2425
02:01:52,880 --> 02:01:55,400
website and keep the lights on
the website itself.

2426
02:01:56,280 --> 02:01:59,320
Finally, by making some of your
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2427
02:01:59,320 --> 02:02:02,680
mercantile.org, you'll be
supporting folks whose

2428
02:02:02,680 --> 02:02:05,960
principles and morals are close,
if not the same as yours.

2429
02:02:06,160 --> 02:02:09,640
At the same time not giving your
money away to people who stand

2430
02:02:09,640 --> 02:02:11,640
against everything you stand
for.

2431
02:02:12,000 --> 02:02:15,000
So no matter if you're looking
to make a purchase or you're a

2432
02:02:15,000 --> 02:02:18,240
seller that wants to get your
products listed, head on over to

2433
02:02:18,240 --> 02:02:22,960
1830 mercantile.org today.
Drop me an e-mail and we'll make

2434
02:02:22,960 --> 02:02:24,280
sure that we get back out to
you.

2435
02:02:24,440 --> 02:02:27,160
Now back to the show.
That's the joint, right?

2436
02:02:27,160 --> 02:02:29,480
I mean, I'd hold right along the
left and right as you can see a

2437
02:02:29,480 --> 02:02:30,520
shadow.
That those.

2438
02:02:31,520 --> 02:02:34,080
So your thought is those were
grooves that would interlock

2439
02:02:34,080 --> 02:02:35,760
with other stones?
Is that kind of what you're

2440
02:02:35,760 --> 02:02:38,720
thinking?
It is, and it's more like a 90°

2441
02:02:38,720 --> 02:02:40,560
cut, you know, actually a 90°
cut.

2442
02:02:40,560 --> 02:02:42,720
It's kind of hard to see it in
that photograph, but the whole

2443
02:02:42,880 --> 02:02:46,240
left and right along that whole
edge that's facing us has

2444
02:02:46,240 --> 02:02:48,560
actually been notched.
It's actually a notch in there.

2445
02:02:48,800 --> 02:02:51,120
And when you bring that up, that
notch will actually interlock

2446
02:02:51,120 --> 02:02:54,480
with a with that top stone on
the far side of it that you

2447
02:02:54,480 --> 02:02:56,720
can't really see, you know?
So gotcha.

2448
02:02:57,280 --> 02:02:57,960
Yeah, it's kind of.
Cool.

2449
02:02:57,960 --> 02:02:58,920
Yeah.
No, that is cool.

2450
02:02:59,360 --> 02:03:00,760
All right, Yeah.
Let's move on.

2451
02:03:00,920 --> 02:03:05,760
Let's move on here.
What is what we can see like

2452
02:03:05,760 --> 02:03:09,280
this shape here, this shape
here.

2453
02:03:10,360 --> 02:03:13,840
I was fascinated by those what
what are the what's your theory

2454
02:03:13,840 --> 02:03:16,880
on what those are there, Dennis?
Yeah, OK, quite.

2455
02:03:16,920 --> 02:03:18,960
Yeah, we have several of those,
one shaped like a chicken and

2456
02:03:18,960 --> 02:03:21,240
one shaped like an apple,
another one shaped like a wine

2457
02:03:21,240 --> 02:03:22,760
bottle.
That one right there, you're

2458
02:03:22,760 --> 02:03:24,800
looking at it.
That actually is the top of that

2459
02:03:24,800 --> 02:03:27,280
stone that has that lap joint,
which is out of sight.

2460
02:03:27,280 --> 02:03:29,560
It's on the top of the stone.
And if you could move the you

2461
02:03:29,560 --> 02:03:31,320
can't do it.
But if you went around that

2462
02:03:31,320 --> 02:03:33,200
chain link fence on the other
side and look back, you'd see

2463
02:03:33,200 --> 02:03:35,240
that lap joint right there.
You're looking at the Patty

2464
02:03:35,240 --> 02:03:38,360
chamber again, direction.
But that smile for the paint,

2465
02:03:38,360 --> 02:03:41,360
that's paint we put on there.
That's a tool shopping group

2466
02:03:41,360 --> 02:03:43,200
that's a little different than
the other ones you just showed

2467
02:03:43,200 --> 02:03:44,600
me.
That's actually they put

2468
02:03:44,600 --> 02:03:46,680
something in there, maybe a
Darien, they might have put a

2469
02:03:46,680 --> 02:03:49,000
stone tool in there.
And why would they do that on a

2470
02:03:49,000 --> 02:03:52,320
roof of a chamber unless it was
a later group of people, you

2471
02:03:52,320 --> 02:03:54,320
know, that used this site for
something different.

2472
02:03:54,520 --> 02:03:55,920
And they were happening in a
tool.

2473
02:03:56,280 --> 02:03:59,560
And you see the circle on the
left, that's when you're looking

2474
02:03:59,560 --> 02:04:03,640
at previously with a hole in it.
So those were both found in 1969

2475
02:04:03,640 --> 02:04:05,560
and they, we, it was Jarrett on
top of them.

2476
02:04:05,560 --> 02:04:08,320
So the Jarrett was removed
during an excavation and we kept

2477
02:04:08,320 --> 02:04:11,240
them clear since then.
Now, the other ones you're

2478
02:04:11,240 --> 02:04:13,920
looking at actually have a
different space.

2479
02:04:13,960 --> 02:04:16,360
That one here, it's kind of a
rounded shape.

2480
02:04:16,600 --> 02:04:18,320
But if you look right where the
arrow is right now, where it

2481
02:04:18,320 --> 02:04:20,160
comes out, there's actually a
groove.

2482
02:04:20,160 --> 02:04:23,320
That groove is similar to the
groove on the sacrificial table.

2483
02:04:23,320 --> 02:04:26,760
At the very bottom of the groove
on the sacrificial pitch, the

2484
02:04:26,760 --> 02:04:29,760
groove on the table looks to be,
you know, two or three inches

2485
02:04:29,760 --> 02:04:32,400
wide, maybe a little bit more,
and about an inch deep.

2486
02:04:32,600 --> 02:04:34,720
If you look at the groove on the
table at the very bottom,

2487
02:04:34,960 --> 02:04:37,680
there's a fine little groove on
this one too.

2488
02:04:37,680 --> 02:04:39,840
It's the same shape.
At the very bottom of the groove

2489
02:04:39,840 --> 02:04:43,400
on the table is a groove there.
There's, like I say, several of

2490
02:04:43,400 --> 02:04:46,520
these wine bottle, chicken
shape, kidney shape.

2491
02:04:46,880 --> 02:04:49,240
This was just kind of a ramen.
They all have those little

2492
02:04:49,240 --> 02:04:51,960
runnels.
I talked to a guide over in

2493
02:04:51,960 --> 02:04:54,640
Walter back in 97.
We visited Malter and I, they

2494
02:04:54,640 --> 02:04:57,240
had the same thing over there
like those and I said what were

2495
02:04:57,240 --> 02:04:59,600
they?
What's the idea of these, these

2496
02:04:59,600 --> 02:05:02,040
little basins with these little
rentals or grooves?

2497
02:05:02,400 --> 02:05:06,400
He goes, I thought today, 5000
something years after this site

2498
02:05:06,400 --> 02:05:11,240
was, you know, built 5500 years
or whatever, because I our

2499
02:05:11,240 --> 02:05:13,560
belief, our tradition is that
these were used where they would

2500
02:05:13,560 --> 02:05:16,040
pour fluid.
It could be blood.

2501
02:05:16,280 --> 02:05:19,040
It could be something like, I
don't know, they probably had

2502
02:05:19,040 --> 02:05:20,560
wine back then or something like
that.

2503
02:05:20,560 --> 02:05:23,680
It goes it was an offering to
the gods for fertility.

2504
02:05:23,680 --> 02:05:26,920
So the soil, this would go into
the you'd pour it on the bedrock

2505
02:05:26,920 --> 02:05:28,920
or whatever and then it would go
away or whatever.

2506
02:05:29,080 --> 02:05:31,000
There was supposed to be an
offering to the gods, he

2507
02:05:31,000 --> 02:05:34,560
thought, and for fertility.
And this goes back to 1997 when

2508
02:05:34,560 --> 02:05:36,320
we visited that.
But we have the same thing up in

2509
02:05:36,320 --> 02:05:38,480
New Hampshire and we have
several of them.

2510
02:05:38,800 --> 02:05:40,800
They're in bedrock.
They're on our site, which we

2511
02:05:40,800 --> 02:05:44,040
think is a ceremonial site.
We see no other purpose.

2512
02:05:44,080 --> 02:05:46,040
And they actually have shapes.
You know, I mentioned the wine

2513
02:05:46,040 --> 02:05:47,960
bottle shape.
They have the apple shape, we

2514
02:05:47,960 --> 02:05:51,040
have the kidney shape, the
chicken scrape and that one

2515
02:05:51,040 --> 02:05:53,480
there, which is kind of just
rounded.

2516
02:05:53,480 --> 02:05:55,960
I guess so.
And I think you had another one

2517
02:05:55,960 --> 02:05:58,360
in there too, another picture
they saw like that too.

2518
02:05:58,360 --> 02:06:01,480
Maybe it was the next.
Dennis, let me ask you this

2519
02:06:01,480 --> 02:06:04,160
question and and we'll get back
to the sacrificial table in a

2520
02:06:04,160 --> 02:06:08,120
minute because this groove right
here, I had noticed that too, is

2521
02:06:08,120 --> 02:06:12,160
that that's oddly familiar as
something we'll see on the

2522
02:06:12,160 --> 02:06:15,360
sacrificial table, like if it
was wine or white blood,

2523
02:06:15,360 --> 02:06:18,200
whatever it was supposed to be
that drained off of there.

2524
02:06:18,680 --> 02:06:21,560
You can see it coming off the
sacrificial table where it would

2525
02:06:21,560 --> 02:06:25,040
drip on the on the ground.
My question is, has there been

2526
02:06:25,040 --> 02:06:28,360
any excavation here to see
what's beneath this right?

2527
02:06:28,560 --> 02:06:31,320
Because on the sacrificial
table, you have that exit

2528
02:06:31,320 --> 02:06:34,360
groove, so to speak, that would
spill on the ground.

2529
02:06:34,680 --> 02:06:38,040
My question is, is what's below
here have has there been any

2530
02:06:38,040 --> 02:06:39,800
excavation to take a look at
that?

2531
02:06:40,720 --> 02:06:43,520
Actually, I think that was
probably cleared.

2532
02:06:43,960 --> 02:06:46,920
I guided I was there since I've
been a kid in the 50s, but I

2533
02:06:46,920 --> 02:06:49,120
think it's 70.
I became a guide and spending a

2534
02:06:49,120 --> 02:06:51,120
little more time there while
they were doing work and stuff.

2535
02:06:51,800 --> 02:06:54,120
My thought is around 19, we
probably had the report on that.

2536
02:06:54,120 --> 02:06:58,040
I think James Woodall, I think
probably he did excavations in

2537
02:06:58,040 --> 02:07:00,760
that area that may have been
uncovered.

2538
02:07:01,880 --> 02:07:04,120
It's near the Paddy with a Paddy
house, stat.

2539
02:07:04,160 --> 02:07:07,200
It's not too far from there.
I think he was excavating all

2540
02:07:07,200 --> 02:07:10,040
along there and I think he
actually left that uncovered.

2541
02:07:10,040 --> 02:07:13,200
I think that could have been
found in 1970 where you pointed

2542
02:07:13,200 --> 02:07:15,800
out it's basically you're
looking at all solid bedrock.

2543
02:07:15,800 --> 02:07:18,200
There's really nothing below it
but more rock that goes down for

2544
02:07:18,200 --> 02:07:21,320
miles, you know, So that is
solid, the solid.

2545
02:07:21,320 --> 02:07:25,320
And all of these were made on
solid bedrock except for one,

2546
02:07:25,320 --> 02:07:29,440
the wine bottle shape one is
actually sitting on another big

2547
02:07:29,440 --> 02:07:33,680
slab that was gloried and set.
And that's a mystery in itself.

2548
02:07:33,680 --> 02:07:35,480
It's part of an underground
drain system.

2549
02:07:36,000 --> 02:07:38,880
And also the quarrymen were in
there removing stonework from

2550
02:07:38,880 --> 02:07:40,480
that area.
So we really don't know what

2551
02:07:40,480 --> 02:07:43,400
it's originally look like.
But that's the exception.

2552
02:07:43,400 --> 02:07:46,200
This is on bedrock.
The wine bottle one, if it comes

2553
02:07:46,200 --> 02:07:49,040
up in your picture, is actually
sitting on a rock on top of

2554
02:07:49,040 --> 02:07:51,840
rock, not bedrock.
The rock is part of bedrock over

2555
02:07:51,840 --> 02:07:54,720
time, but it's part of a train.
The drain goes underneath it.

2556
02:07:54,720 --> 02:07:56,840
It's manufactured.
It's artificial, if you will.

2557
02:07:57,240 --> 02:08:00,240
So they all know that.
They say it's for, you know, for

2558
02:08:00,240 --> 02:08:03,520
religious purposes, you know, as
an offering place, a libation

2559
02:08:03,520 --> 02:08:05,840
bowl, I guess you used to call
them, you know, libation.

2560
02:08:05,960 --> 02:08:09,640
So Barry Fell referred to it as
a libation bowl too.

2561
02:08:09,880 --> 02:08:11,720
He was the guy that was working
on the inscriptions.

2562
02:08:11,720 --> 02:08:17,240
He died in in 1994.
He came to us in 1975 for the

2563
02:08:17,280 --> 02:08:18,720
first time.
He worked on inscriptions.

2564
02:08:18,720 --> 02:08:20,760
But things like this he was
interested in too.

2565
02:08:21,520 --> 02:08:23,920
He did a lot of comparative
archaeology with Old World

2566
02:08:23,920 --> 02:08:27,920
sites, the New World sites,
sites like ours compared to

2567
02:08:27,920 --> 02:08:30,840
other Northeast sites,
comparing, you know, regionally

2568
02:08:30,840 --> 02:08:33,680
and also, I guess international,
I guess.

2569
02:08:35,000 --> 02:08:36,720
Awesome.
All right, let me move on to

2570
02:08:36,720 --> 02:08:38,440
some more here.
So what?

2571
02:08:38,640 --> 02:08:43,000
Is this well that's called the
South facing chamber.

2572
02:08:43,000 --> 02:08:46,880
It's actually facing the well,
the swamp, you know, where we

2573
02:08:46,880 --> 02:08:51,200
were a little while ago and it
is well that chamber there is

2574
02:08:51,200 --> 02:08:53,760
called the lilac chamber there a
lilac planted there.

2575
02:08:53,800 --> 02:08:55,400
That's a state flower by the
way.

2576
02:08:55,400 --> 02:08:57,920
But the Patty family, we think
Missus Fatty or somebody might

2577
02:08:57,920 --> 02:09:00,000
have planted those there almost
200 years ago.

2578
02:09:00,000 --> 02:09:01,280
It's on the roof of that
structure.

2579
02:09:02,040 --> 02:09:05,200
A couple years ago people were
mentioning to me that that this

2580
02:09:05,200 --> 02:09:08,320
structure you see back at the
visit or something, they come

2581
02:09:08,320 --> 02:09:10,320
now, what about, you know, I
enjoyed our tour and they

2582
02:09:10,320 --> 02:09:12,880
mentioned instruction.
They say, do you see like a

2583
02:09:12,880 --> 02:09:16,200
turtle, a turtle, snake or
something to them I'm like, is

2584
02:09:16,200 --> 02:09:18,160
it an inscription?
They go, no, no, it's like a

2585
02:09:18,160 --> 02:09:20,440
snake.
I'm like a turtle, huh?

2586
02:09:20,480 --> 02:09:23,000
I said, and it's a self facing
chamber.

2587
02:09:23,320 --> 02:09:27,040
This picture, if it was taken
just a little bit further back,

2588
02:09:27,040 --> 02:09:29,240
if you will include a little bit
more on the left and right.

2589
02:09:29,240 --> 02:09:33,480
I can't see quite the left and
right part of it, so it won't be

2590
02:09:34,000 --> 02:09:38,200
unfortunate because but any
event I went up with my dog.

2591
02:09:38,200 --> 02:09:41,520
But we live on the on the
cul-de-sac budding this

2592
02:09:41,520 --> 02:09:44,360
property, which is nice.
And we have access to the

2593
02:09:44,360 --> 02:09:47,160
property through some of the
walls that are out here, which

2594
02:09:47,160 --> 02:09:49,000
we think are ancient.
We have monoliths right in my

2595
02:09:49,000 --> 02:09:51,040
backyard.
As a matter of fact, if I my

2596
02:09:51,320 --> 02:09:53,680
camera work, they send you a
picture of the monolith in my

2597
02:09:53,680 --> 02:09:55,320
backyard.
It's an intersection of

2598
02:09:55,960 --> 02:09:58,560
basically three walls with a
slab.

2599
02:09:58,680 --> 02:10:00,200
It's interesting.
It looks like a monolith.

2600
02:10:00,240 --> 02:10:03,600
Monoliths can have a failing
fertility symbol and it looks

2601
02:10:03,600 --> 02:10:06,240
like a female stone stood up
next to it, if you will.

2602
02:10:06,240 --> 02:10:09,200
And this is in Vermont.
It happens to and in New York,

2603
02:10:09,440 --> 02:10:10,600
but I have it right in my
backyard.

2604
02:10:10,600 --> 02:10:13,560
And my backyard is America's
Stonehenge, 106 acres.

2605
02:10:13,760 --> 02:10:16,600
We're lucky enough to buy a
property next to this on a

2606
02:10:16,600 --> 02:10:20,080
cul-de-sac in 1985.
We built the house in 8687 here.

2607
02:10:20,080 --> 02:10:22,720
So I walk my dog up here every
night.

2608
02:10:22,720 --> 02:10:26,360
Keep an eye on the place, you
know, and I, I've been meaning

2609
02:10:26,360 --> 02:10:29,640
to get some nice photographs for
radio shows like I'm doing right

2610
02:10:29,640 --> 02:10:32,560
now to get to my host.
There's a cloudy day, no

2611
02:10:32,560 --> 02:10:33,920
shadows.
I went up and took a picture

2612
02:10:33,920 --> 02:10:36,600
like that kind of just a little
bit further back and I'm looking

2613
02:10:36,600 --> 02:10:38,120
at it going, Oh my God, I can
see it.

2614
02:10:38,480 --> 02:10:40,640
What you're looking at is a
profile.

2615
02:10:40,640 --> 02:10:43,800
This structure may have been
designed to look like a turtle.

2616
02:10:44,240 --> 02:10:47,080
And again, this picture here,
people look at it go, I don't

2617
02:10:47,440 --> 02:10:49,600
because part of it's missing the
head would.

2618
02:10:49,600 --> 02:10:52,680
Be to the left a turtle?
Is that what you said?

2619
02:10:52,920 --> 02:10:54,760
A turtle face?
A profile?

2620
02:10:54,760 --> 02:10:57,720
Yeah, you know, it would be
more.

2621
02:10:59,520 --> 02:11:02,600
Yeah, it's kind of cut a nice
photograph and it cuts out pot

2622
02:11:02,600 --> 02:11:06,840
of the left side of it and it
cuts out the tail end of it, the

2623
02:11:06,840 --> 02:11:08,400
left side of it.
We think it's a head.

2624
02:11:09,160 --> 02:11:12,040
You go up by the lilac, you can
see the hump where the the

2625
02:11:12,040 --> 02:11:14,040
stonework is.
That's the top shell of the

2626
02:11:14,040 --> 02:11:15,760
turtle.
Where?

2627
02:11:15,800 --> 02:11:18,320
The where the shell, the the
kind of the top of the shell,

2628
02:11:18,320 --> 02:11:19,560
and you and.
Yeah, yeah.

2629
02:11:19,560 --> 02:11:22,680
So.
So they made the stone effigy of

2630
02:11:22,680 --> 02:11:24,640
a turtle.
Possibly, yeah.

2631
02:11:24,640 --> 02:11:29,960
And then had a a a compartment
inside.

2632
02:11:31,120 --> 02:11:33,200
Right, yeah.
And that compartment actually

2633
02:11:34,880 --> 02:11:37,240
you can see the little where
your cursor is, that actually be

2634
02:11:37,240 --> 02:11:40,080
the belly of the turtle.
And if you go to the left side

2635
02:11:40,080 --> 02:11:42,120
of the opening and the right
side of the opening.

2636
02:11:42,120 --> 02:11:44,000
And again, this picture is just
a little bit off.

2637
02:11:44,880 --> 02:11:46,400
You have to look at it just a
site.

2638
02:11:46,680 --> 02:11:49,200
You'll see those are the legs or
the other side of the opening

2639
02:11:49,480 --> 02:11:52,280
and the yeah, there and then the
other ones on the other side is

2640
02:11:52,280 --> 02:11:54,400
the leg too.
And again, we're missing the

2641
02:11:54,400 --> 02:11:58,160
head and then to the right on
the bottom right, you might be

2642
02:11:58,160 --> 02:12:00,280
able to partly see it when you
go just a little higher there,

2643
02:12:00,280 --> 02:12:02,640
just a little right, You're
right on it.

2644
02:12:02,640 --> 02:12:06,680
Go down by the just a tiny bit
down, just down with the cursor.

2645
02:12:07,000 --> 02:12:08,640
The rocky run right now you
can't.

2646
02:12:08,680 --> 02:12:10,760
You just see the edge of it.
It looks like a tail.

2647
02:12:11,160 --> 02:12:14,360
And I looked at that thing since
the 50s and my eyes were not

2648
02:12:14,480 --> 02:12:16,640
looking at a turtle or just
looking at a chamber.

2649
02:12:16,880 --> 02:12:19,960
I got back and looked at it.
And once you see it, you'll

2650
02:12:19,960 --> 02:12:22,800
never, never not see it.
Every time I go up there, I'm

2651
02:12:22,800 --> 02:12:24,640
seeing a turtle.
It's a profile.

2652
02:12:25,120 --> 02:12:27,640
And again, unfortunately a pitch
is good, but it's cutting out

2653
02:12:27,640 --> 02:12:29,240
the head, it's cutting out the
tail.

2654
02:12:29,720 --> 02:12:31,960
And there is a slightly
different angle of that.

2655
02:12:31,960 --> 02:12:33,360
It's probably why we missed this
thing.

2656
02:12:33,360 --> 02:12:34,920
And it's like, Oh my God, I can
see it.

2657
02:12:35,360 --> 02:12:37,600
And then you say to yourself,
was this intentional or am I

2658
02:12:37,600 --> 02:12:40,320
seeing things Like, I think
pareidolia is the word when you

2659
02:12:40,320 --> 02:12:43,880
see faces and clouds or you see,
you see animal shapes and

2660
02:12:43,880 --> 02:12:46,600
clouds, that kind of thing.
But when you really look at this

2661
02:12:46,600 --> 02:12:48,400
thing, it's easy to see why we
didn't see it.

2662
02:12:48,400 --> 02:12:52,080
But once you see it, turtles
were big in ancient cultures,

2663
02:12:52,080 --> 02:12:54,560
particularly Native American in
serpents too.

2664
02:12:55,040 --> 02:12:57,680
So we don't know to this day.
This is only a couple of years

2665
02:12:57,680 --> 02:12:59,640
ago.
We actually kind of, if you

2666
02:12:59,640 --> 02:13:02,200
will, discovered this.
And it was actually our visitors

2667
02:13:02,200 --> 02:13:03,960
that really brought it to our
attention.

2668
02:13:04,280 --> 02:13:05,920
And we look at it now go, Oh my
God.

2669
02:13:05,920 --> 02:13:08,800
And most people, I would say 9
out of 10 people stand back, go,

2670
02:13:08,800 --> 02:13:11,480
oh, my God, I can see it.
Maybe one out of 10 goes, I

2671
02:13:11,480 --> 02:13:13,080
don't quite have to look for a
while.

2672
02:13:13,080 --> 02:13:15,280
And that's probably like me for
years.

2673
02:13:15,280 --> 02:13:18,360
And I'm like, oh, now I see the
turtle shape.

2674
02:13:18,680 --> 02:13:22,160
So is it intentional?
Is it just some coincidence?

2675
02:13:23,400 --> 02:13:26,080
But if, again, if you had the
whole thing in the picture,

2676
02:13:26,080 --> 02:13:28,960
people would go, oh, because
we're seeing just a part of it,

2677
02:13:28,960 --> 02:13:31,440
you know, you can't really got
to see the whole thing to really

2678
02:13:31,440 --> 02:13:33,160
see, oh, that is like a turtle,
you know?

2679
02:13:34,400 --> 02:13:37,960
So real quick and, and, and
Dennis, I don't expect you to

2680
02:13:37,960 --> 02:13:40,000
buy into this.
I'm talking more to the viewers

2681
02:13:40,000 --> 02:13:43,600
now, knowing that you're not
from from my religious

2682
02:13:43,600 --> 02:13:47,320
persuasion, if you will.
But in Mormonism, there was a

2683
02:13:47,320 --> 02:13:51,600
group of people called the
Jaredites who came over about

2684
02:13:51,600 --> 02:13:58,360
2200 years BC, right?
So you're talking that 4004

2685
02:13:58,360 --> 02:14:01,440
thousand years ago.
And the boats that they came in

2686
02:14:01,440 --> 02:14:04,960
on were, oddly enough, shaped
like turtles.

2687
02:14:05,600 --> 02:14:07,840
No kidding.
Well, that's no kidding.

2688
02:14:08,520 --> 02:14:09,760
I I've heard of that group too.
I have.

2689
02:14:10,320 --> 02:14:12,840
Because you've had many Mormons
come true and.

2690
02:14:14,200 --> 02:14:16,520
Yeah.
And so the fact that you say

2691
02:14:16,560 --> 02:14:22,640
this looks like a turtle is is
really interesting to me anyway,

2692
02:14:22,720 --> 02:14:24,480
so but I just.
Want to point that out.

2693
02:14:24,960 --> 02:14:26,920
That boat thing sounds very,
that's fascinating.

2694
02:14:26,920 --> 02:14:29,600
I have to do a little more, you
know, checking on that too,

2695
02:14:29,600 --> 02:14:31,400
because that is, I hadn't heard
that though before.

2696
02:14:31,400 --> 02:14:34,160
That's interesting.
Yeah, no, that was that was like

2697
02:14:34,160 --> 02:14:37,560
the first group of people that
came over according to the Book

2698
02:14:37,560 --> 02:14:42,560
of Mormon from from the the the
old world and the the boats that

2699
02:14:42,560 --> 02:14:47,800
they constructed were were a lot
like shaped a lot like turtles.

2700
02:14:48,120 --> 02:14:52,160
And in fact, there's there's the
I believe it's the Mandan.

2701
02:14:52,160 --> 02:14:55,200
Don't quote me on this.
The Mandan tribe up in in North

2702
02:14:55,200 --> 02:15:00,480
Dakota talks about their people
coming over in boats that were

2703
02:15:00,480 --> 02:15:05,000
shaped like turtles as well, a
little far away from there.

2704
02:15:05,000 --> 02:15:08,160
But given the space of time and
diffusion and those sorts of

2705
02:15:08,160 --> 02:15:11,840
things, I don't think it's
something that from a Mormon

2706
02:15:11,840 --> 02:15:15,600
perspective, you could just roll
out, you know, roll past without

2707
02:15:15,600 --> 02:15:17,080
raising a little bit of an
eyebrow.

2708
02:15:17,560 --> 02:15:20,480
Interestingly enough, you were
talking about the white store

2709
02:15:20,640 --> 02:15:25,160
stone courts.
Part of that story is that God

2710
02:15:25,160 --> 02:15:30,440
had blessed some stones, white
stones that then glowed to give

2711
02:15:30,440 --> 02:15:32,640
light inside those turtle shaped
barges.

2712
02:15:33,720 --> 02:15:36,360
Yeah, it sounds like a white
side stone in the watch out.

2713
02:15:37,560 --> 02:15:39,520
Right.
So I'm seeing, I'm seeing some,

2714
02:15:39,520 --> 02:15:41,520
some, you know, from a Mormon
perspective.

2715
02:15:41,520 --> 02:15:44,240
And, and look, I'm not saying
they are and I'm not saying

2716
02:15:44,240 --> 02:15:47,080
they're not, but I am saying
that there's, there's some

2717
02:15:47,080 --> 02:15:49,240
echoing there going on.
You know what I mean?

2718
02:15:50,000 --> 02:15:53,480
So let me, let me go here.
I won't bore you with my, my

2719
02:15:53,480 --> 02:15:56,400
religion stuff here.
I just wanted to point that out

2720
02:15:56,400 --> 02:15:57,440
to my viewers.
Oh.

2721
02:15:57,440 --> 02:15:59,040
That's that's very interesting
David.

2722
02:15:59,120 --> 02:16:02,200
I appreciate that though
definitely we're open to all of

2723
02:16:02,200 --> 02:16:05,440
these That's cool.
But the turtle for sure, yeah,

2724
02:16:05,440 --> 02:16:07,680
you're kind of looking at what
we call we saw talked about the

2725
02:16:07,680 --> 02:16:09,200
core.
Yeah, that would be with Patty

2726
02:16:09,200 --> 02:16:12,920
House at and the courtyard is
trapezoidal shape.

2727
02:16:12,920 --> 02:16:16,080
I meant to mention the the
sills, the walls of the the

2728
02:16:16,080 --> 02:16:19,240
original walls built by the
people and that trapezoidal used

2729
02:16:19,240 --> 02:16:21,280
to think it was kind of
rectangular shape, you know,

2730
02:16:21,280 --> 02:16:24,400
wide enough that the house sat
even though the house was

2731
02:16:24,400 --> 02:16:27,320
rectangular did sit over the
trapezoidal shape.

2732
02:16:27,560 --> 02:16:29,400
There's a trapezoidal shape
that's kind of subtle.

2733
02:16:29,400 --> 02:16:32,600
It is a trapezoidal shape, but
the still were so wide that it

2734
02:16:32,600 --> 02:16:34,400
accommodated a house that's
rectangular.

2735
02:16:34,559 --> 02:16:37,280
Now we're looking at a Plaza
area, which is just to the West

2736
02:16:37,360 --> 02:16:40,600
of the Paddy area.
I will kind of look into, I

2737
02:16:40,639 --> 02:16:43,799
thought the wooden structure in
the background is actually with

2738
02:16:43,799 --> 02:16:47,280
A2 card set that formed the
astronomical center of the site

2739
02:16:47,280 --> 02:16:50,719
until the late 1930s when
Goodwin destroyed them.

2740
02:16:51,639 --> 02:16:54,520
And we are looking true north.
There are a couple of chambers

2741
02:16:54,520 --> 02:16:56,639
on either side.
Just out of the frame on the

2742
02:16:56,639 --> 02:17:01,480
right side is with a wine bottle
shaped cut out is on that quarry

2743
02:17:01,480 --> 02:17:05,080
bedrock which sits over a drain.
We think there was a structure

2744
02:17:05,080 --> 02:17:07,959
there, but it had that wine
bottle with the same groove like

2745
02:17:07,959 --> 02:17:11,280
you showed before.
And the background is basically

2746
02:17:11,280 --> 02:17:14,000
the East West chamber.
You can see some standing slabs

2747
02:17:14,000 --> 02:17:15,000
here.
Again, those are called

2748
02:17:15,080 --> 02:17:17,680
orthostats.
That's part of the East West

2749
02:17:17,680 --> 02:17:21,280
chamber.
And again, it's running true

2750
02:17:21,280 --> 02:17:23,719
east and West.
And that one I think in total

2751
02:17:24,000 --> 02:17:27,840
was about 40 feet in length.
It's when you go into the

2752
02:17:27,840 --> 02:17:32,719
chamber today, you see a slab on
the left side.

2753
02:17:32,879 --> 02:17:35,639
You see a slab on the right side
just below the roof of that

2754
02:17:35,639 --> 02:17:40,240
chamber, the wooden structure in
the middle, you see a lot of

2755
02:17:40,320 --> 02:17:43,360
small stones.
And when Goodwin photographed

2756
02:17:43,360 --> 02:17:48,480
this first, when he came here in
36 and in 37, before he began

2757
02:17:48,480 --> 02:17:52,799
his work, he did, he actually
did a Roscoe Whitney.

2758
02:17:52,799 --> 02:17:55,799
His right hand man was from MIT.
He was an engineer from

2759
02:17:56,000 --> 02:17:59,280
Leominster, Mass, about an hour
and a half away.

2760
02:17:59,840 --> 02:18:01,200
He actually set up a plane
table.

2761
02:18:01,200 --> 02:18:04,719
It's a flat table on a pole.
And we got pictures of him

2762
02:18:04,719 --> 02:18:08,160
standing there with his pith
helmet with a drawing implement.

2763
02:18:08,600 --> 02:18:11,840
And what he did is he actually
sketched the site very nicely

2764
02:18:11,840 --> 02:18:13,959
too.
He did cross section profile and

2765
02:18:13,959 --> 02:18:16,440
plan view of the whole site.
He was doing it in different

2766
02:18:16,440 --> 02:18:18,320
areas, including there's a
picture of him standing in this

2767
02:18:18,320 --> 02:18:21,719
area, but that chamber there,
we're looking in the background

2768
02:18:21,719 --> 02:18:25,000
with those two orthostats.
That area in the middle was

2769
02:18:25,040 --> 02:18:28,400
missing, and for what we know,
the quarrymen actually worked.

2770
02:18:28,559 --> 02:18:31,600
Just out of the frame to the
left there was where they set up

2771
02:18:31,600 --> 02:18:33,920
what we call a boom post.
There's a cut out in the bedrock

2772
02:18:34,080 --> 02:18:36,719
with two drill holes.
Actually, I think there's 3 or 4

2773
02:18:36,719 --> 02:18:39,719
drill holes they made a
rectangular or square cut out in

2774
02:18:39,719 --> 02:18:42,320
the bedrock.
They set the base of this pole

2775
02:18:42,480 --> 02:18:44,879
called the boom post.
There's a tall pole.

2776
02:18:44,879 --> 02:18:49,160
It had, I assume, metal eye
wires holding it in place.

2777
02:18:49,320 --> 02:18:53,080
It was just lifting up rocks to
put on carts to haul away from

2778
02:18:53,080 --> 02:18:54,840
this site for local building
projects.

2779
02:18:54,840 --> 02:18:58,040
That's during the time they were
dismantling part of the site and

2780
02:18:58,040 --> 02:19:00,480
they work from just out of the
frame to the left.

2781
02:19:01,160 --> 02:19:04,000
They did a lot of damage in that
area and a lot of drill Marks

2782
02:19:04,000 --> 02:19:05,959
and the remains of another
structure, kind of like the

2783
02:19:05,959 --> 02:19:08,400
Paddy chamber, except there's
only just the bottom of it left.

2784
02:19:08,879 --> 02:19:11,879
And another structure called the
compound where 65 foot

2785
02:19:11,879 --> 02:19:14,799
underground drain still exists.
All man made underground drain.

2786
02:19:14,959 --> 02:19:17,680
We just did radar on that
recently just to prove it was a

2787
02:19:17,680 --> 02:19:22,200
drain, but they also got up to
that East West chamber and they

2788
02:19:22,200 --> 02:19:23,879
stopped.
Fortunately, there's drill marks

2789
02:19:23,879 --> 02:19:26,639
all around that area.
I think they started dismantling

2790
02:19:26,639 --> 02:19:30,799
the East West chamber in between
those two big stones standing

2791
02:19:30,799 --> 02:19:33,840
up, 1 below the roof of that,
yes, right there.

2792
02:19:33,840 --> 02:19:36,680
And then the other one to the
left of that, right there in the

2793
02:19:36,680 --> 02:19:39,480
middle.
That area is hollow and it's

2794
02:19:39,480 --> 02:19:41,559
damaged.
And I think they took out some

2795
02:19:41,559 --> 02:19:44,559
larger stones in there.
And what Goodwin did is he

2796
02:19:44,559 --> 02:19:47,920
cleaned up this whole immediate
area here and he restored that

2797
02:19:47,920 --> 02:19:50,280
by putting smaller stones back
in the hole.

2798
02:19:50,720 --> 02:19:53,360
And he actually puts a stone
that's vertical in there, tiny

2799
02:19:53,360 --> 02:19:54,720
little vertical.
It's not that small.

2800
02:19:54,720 --> 02:19:57,320
It's small here.
And that actually David Stewart

2801
02:19:57,320 --> 02:20:00,200
Smith said that's a roof slab.
He put it up vertically as the

2802
02:20:00,600 --> 02:20:03,200
end of the chamber when you go
into the structure.

2803
02:20:03,760 --> 02:20:06,280
To the left, you might have gone
into that chamber called the

2804
02:20:06,280 --> 02:20:07,760
East West Chamber, stuck your
head in there.

2805
02:20:07,960 --> 02:20:09,760
You'll see a beautiful stone at
the back.

2806
02:20:10,960 --> 02:20:14,960
Our best knowledge of zealous or
roof slabs, they belong on top.

2807
02:20:15,200 --> 02:20:19,320
The wall slab which is another
one of those vertical big slabs

2808
02:20:19,320 --> 02:20:21,560
here stood on its end are now
missing.

2809
02:20:21,600 --> 02:20:23,720
They've been hauled away for
building purposes.

2810
02:20:24,000 --> 02:20:27,040
And he created a cavity and he,
they were destroying that

2811
02:20:27,040 --> 02:20:29,080
chamber.
And fortunately at some point

2812
02:20:29,080 --> 02:20:31,840
somebody said, oh, but then with
the project, because that whole

2813
02:20:31,840 --> 02:20:34,120
thing could be missing.
That's what looks like a galley

2814
02:20:34,120 --> 02:20:37,480
or gallery graze found in
Ireland, as I mentioned, Holland

2815
02:20:37,480 --> 02:20:40,960
and also in in France where I
saw one in France too, near

2816
02:20:40,960 --> 02:20:44,080
Karnak where all those 3500
stones were spit up on end.

2817
02:20:44,080 --> 02:20:48,600
A beautiful place.
And again, it's for over there

2818
02:20:48,600 --> 02:20:52,960
for tombs, you know.
So that area is, again, the

2819
02:20:53,000 --> 02:20:55,960
Plaza area, you know, and that's
where the quarrymen kind of, I

2820
02:20:55,960 --> 02:20:58,760
think, ended their project,
unfortunately.

2821
02:20:59,080 --> 02:21:01,600
But fortunately, they didn't get
to the table and take that away

2822
02:21:01,600 --> 02:21:03,280
of the Oracle chamber, which is
good.

2823
02:21:03,280 --> 02:21:05,160
You know, that would have been
probably next.

2824
02:21:05,200 --> 02:21:07,480
Yeah.
Yeah, absolutely.

2825
02:21:08,320 --> 02:21:12,360
All right, let me move on here.
Oh, the wine bottle, there it

2826
02:21:12,400 --> 02:21:13,520
is.
We just had the wine bottle.

2827
02:21:13,800 --> 02:21:17,200
That's the wine bottle one.
And that one right there is the

2828
02:21:17,200 --> 02:21:19,960
kidney shaped one that we have
that's a cut out, as you

2829
02:21:19,960 --> 02:21:22,960
mentioned, a libation bowl or
other kind of kidney shake

2830
02:21:23,320 --> 02:21:25,720
that's still in the, that's
still in that Plaza area.

2831
02:21:26,560 --> 02:21:28,440
That one, there's part of the
compound.

2832
02:21:28,440 --> 02:21:32,240
But #17 I think it said that's,
that's the remains.

2833
02:21:32,360 --> 02:21:33,640
The quarrymen worked in that
area.

2834
02:21:33,640 --> 02:21:35,200
And there's a chamber you can't
see to the left.

2835
02:21:35,200 --> 02:21:37,200
That was all you can see at the
bottom of it today.

2836
02:21:37,440 --> 02:21:39,200
They just, there's a drill hole
in it.

2837
02:21:39,480 --> 02:21:40,920
You can know they were tearing
it apart.

2838
02:21:40,920 --> 02:21:43,320
They were drilling stones to
reduce their size so that the

2839
02:21:43,320 --> 02:21:45,360
size they could, they have a big
stone in the structure.

2840
02:21:45,360 --> 02:21:47,960
They split it in half so they
could take it away more easily,

2841
02:21:47,960 --> 02:21:49,320
you know, and that's what you
see.

2842
02:21:49,520 --> 02:21:52,480
That chamber is called the
compound, and there's actually

2843
02:21:52,480 --> 02:21:55,520
like a roof slab.
I think they pretty much wiped

2844
02:21:55,520 --> 02:21:57,960
the whole structure out except
what you see remaining now, just

2845
02:21:57,960 --> 02:22:00,160
the bottom of the walls.
And they're big stones too.

2846
02:22:00,720 --> 02:22:02,880
There's actually a six.
That would have been so nice.

2847
02:22:02,880 --> 02:22:07,080
Would have been so nice to see
it before they started beating

2848
02:22:07,080 --> 02:22:08,080
it up, so to speak.
I.

2849
02:22:08,080 --> 02:22:09,840
Think it was impressive?
Yeah, very impressive.

2850
02:22:10,640 --> 02:22:12,240
Yes.
Looking backwards now.

2851
02:22:12,480 --> 02:22:13,920
Oh, there's yeah.
The inside of the Oracle

2852
02:22:13,920 --> 02:22:16,080
chamber.
Yeah, that's the North.

2853
02:22:16,080 --> 02:22:18,280
South.
This is the chamber where where

2854
02:22:18,280 --> 02:22:22,400
the the court sits, right?
This is the Oracle chamber.

2855
02:22:22,400 --> 02:22:26,320
Actually the the watch house is
the one with the quartz that has

2856
02:22:26,320 --> 02:22:29,200
the alignment in it.
This is the biggest chamber.

2857
02:22:29,200 --> 02:22:32,720
However, on the main side, it's
the, you know, next to the table

2858
02:22:33,000 --> 02:22:36,040
and you're looking to the north.
And if you see in the ceiling a

2859
02:22:36,040 --> 02:22:37,600
little light, that's where the
chimney is.

2860
02:22:37,640 --> 02:22:39,440
Yeah.
There are two stone lubbers

2861
02:22:39,440 --> 02:22:41,080
there.
We have photographs of them.

2862
02:22:41,240 --> 02:22:45,600
My dad saw them, they were there
till 1959 I think the second

2863
02:22:45,640 --> 02:22:47,760
year we were open and somebody
stole them.

2864
02:22:47,800 --> 02:22:50,360
So we've never seen them since.
They're actually Lubus to adjust

2865
02:22:50,360 --> 02:22:52,120
the draft for perhaps a
fireball.

2866
02:22:52,720 --> 02:22:55,040
They stole it.
Yeah, they took them.

2867
02:22:55,040 --> 02:22:57,400
Yeah, they're gone.
Yeah, yeah, they.

2868
02:22:57,840 --> 02:22:59,400
And we have several pictures of
them.

2869
02:22:59,600 --> 02:23:01,800
In fact, Goodwin actually took
them out of the ceiling, put

2870
02:23:01,800 --> 02:23:05,080
them on the floor, took right
beyond with.

2871
02:23:05,360 --> 02:23:07,520
Is that your wife?
I can't quite make out the

2872
02:23:07,520 --> 02:23:08,960
pitching.
Yeah, that's my wife.

2873
02:23:09,600 --> 02:23:11,280
Right beyond her.
Yeah, at the end there, right.

2874
02:23:11,560 --> 02:23:14,200
The probably where her neck is
on the floor, if you will.

2875
02:23:14,320 --> 02:23:15,800
That's where Goodman took
pictures of them.

2876
02:23:15,800 --> 02:23:18,920
Then he put them back in place.
That was in the 30s.

2877
02:23:19,040 --> 02:23:23,040
And then they stayed there until
about 20 years later in 59, I

2878
02:23:23,040 --> 02:23:25,640
think they were stolen.
My dad had a report on that.

2879
02:23:25,640 --> 02:23:27,960
You know, it's really sad.
Somebody took them away.

2880
02:23:28,360 --> 02:23:31,080
It could have been outside of
business hours.

2881
02:23:31,080 --> 02:23:32,120
Somebody could have snuck up
there.

2882
02:23:32,240 --> 02:23:35,320
And that's the that's looking E
that's the east part of the

2883
02:23:35,560 --> 02:23:38,680
watch the Oracle chamber.
So the Oracle chamber is shaped

2884
02:23:38,680 --> 02:23:40,600
like the letter Y.
If you pick the roof off and

2885
02:23:40,600 --> 02:23:45,280
look down and this is the east
wing, there's a seat on the

2886
02:23:45,280 --> 02:23:46,800
left.
You can just barely make it out.

2887
02:23:46,800 --> 02:23:48,240
Actually three people could sit
on it.

2888
02:23:48,240 --> 02:23:49,800
It's a little hard to see in the
picture.

2889
02:23:50,480 --> 02:23:52,640
Yeah, it's right where you're
you're cursor was.

2890
02:23:52,640 --> 02:23:54,680
Yeah, right in there.
There's no tool, metal tool

2891
02:23:54,680 --> 02:23:56,880
markings.
The whole thing is notched 90°

2892
02:23:57,640 --> 02:23:59,800
on the right side of the
picture, right where your cursor

2893
02:23:59,800 --> 02:24:01,720
just was.
That rock there was part of the

2894
02:24:01,720 --> 02:24:03,280
rock.
We were just pointing at those.

2895
02:24:03,320 --> 02:24:06,640
That was one rock at one time.
So either nature cracked it or

2896
02:24:06,640 --> 02:24:10,040
these people crack and it weighs
around 5050 tons.

2897
02:24:10,040 --> 02:24:13,400
They actually moved the rock to
where it is today, or nature did

2898
02:24:13,400 --> 02:24:15,640
that and he built the chamber
around it.

2899
02:24:15,960 --> 02:24:19,120
So this is like a split boulder
that's huge.

2900
02:24:19,320 --> 02:24:22,440
They split it, moved apart,
built the chamber and this core

2901
02:24:22,440 --> 02:24:24,760
building in here too, because
the picture doesn't really show

2902
02:24:24,760 --> 02:24:27,320
it too much, but that ceiling up
above is actually bowed in

2903
02:24:27,600 --> 02:24:29,760
evosion on both sides.
It's called core building.

2904
02:24:30,000 --> 02:24:33,320
And then the roof is stepped
down and towards the East End of

2905
02:24:33,320 --> 02:24:37,760
the structure is more closets.
There are actually 5 closets,

2906
02:24:37,760 --> 02:24:41,720
stone closets in this chamber.
Lot of a lot of detail for this

2907
02:24:41,720 --> 02:24:43,560
chamber.
It's like, why would somebody go

2908
02:24:43,560 --> 02:24:49,560
to all this trouble making a, a
stone bench seat, 8 foot dead, 5

2909
02:24:49,720 --> 02:24:53,880
closets and two underground
drains, one of them running 2045

2910
02:24:53,880 --> 02:24:55,960
feet in the ground.
And what he does is take any

2911
02:24:55,960 --> 02:24:59,040
rainwater, snow melt, and it
just lets it flow out and keeps

2912
02:24:59,040 --> 02:25:01,320
the structure dry.
There's a lot of dirt in them

2913
02:25:01,320 --> 02:25:04,880
today, as you can imagine.
So we would get in there and

2914
02:25:04,880 --> 02:25:07,440
clean them out.
But David X, some of these have

2915
02:25:07,440 --> 02:25:10,800
been excavated by Goodwin and
Franklin going back into the 50s

2916
02:25:10,800 --> 02:25:13,040
and 60s.
And sometimes they find stone

2917
02:25:13,040 --> 02:25:15,280
tools in them.
Sometimes they find things just

2918
02:25:15,280 --> 02:25:19,040
like wrap is from gum or
something that wash into them

2919
02:25:19,200 --> 02:25:21,800
from our visitors, you know,
modern day stuff too, you know.

2920
02:25:22,080 --> 02:25:24,440
But drains are a great place to
look for artifacts.

2921
02:25:24,440 --> 02:25:27,200
Sometimes they're old artifacts.
You know, that neighbor is

2922
02:25:27,200 --> 02:25:29,440
pretty cool.
It's like if there's a priest of

2923
02:25:29,440 --> 02:25:33,080
salmon that came up here during
solstices, equinoxes, any other

2924
02:25:33,080 --> 02:25:34,960
special events like maybe a
funeral?

2925
02:25:35,080 --> 02:25:38,120
Because those could be tombs or
maybe a wedding or something.

2926
02:25:38,120 --> 02:25:40,560
We really don't know.
You know, we have to have a time

2927
02:25:40,560 --> 02:25:43,520
machine, I think.
But maybe they stayed in this

2928
02:25:43,520 --> 02:25:47,880
chamber during these events.
And then when Goodwin came, the

2929
02:25:47,880 --> 02:25:51,080
speaking tube had two blocks of
stones concealing it.

2930
02:25:51,240 --> 02:25:54,920
Both of those underground drains
inside the chamber were blocked

2931
02:25:54,920 --> 02:25:56,960
with stone.
It's like somebody winterized

2932
02:25:56,960 --> 02:26:00,560
the structure, They shut it
down, and then they went away

2933
02:26:00,560 --> 02:26:02,800
and never came back.
The last time they used it,

2934
02:26:02,920 --> 02:26:05,040
that's what it appeared to be.
It's like these things were

2935
02:26:05,040 --> 02:26:07,880
hiding and they actually found
these things hiding behind.

2936
02:26:08,040 --> 02:26:10,760
What I wish they had done is
saved those plugs of stone that

2937
02:26:10,760 --> 02:26:14,360
were in the drains and speaking
tube and taking better, taking

2938
02:26:14,360 --> 02:26:15,480
pictures because we don't have
it.

2939
02:26:15,480 --> 02:26:18,720
All we have is in Goodwin's
book, in all his notes, he talks

2940
02:26:18,720 --> 02:26:20,680
about this.
That was really good.

2941
02:26:20,920 --> 02:26:23,120
But they don't have.
They took pictures of everything

2942
02:26:23,120 --> 02:26:25,240
because Malcolm was like a
professional photographer.

2943
02:26:25,520 --> 02:26:28,160
He was another.
He was an assistant to Goodwin.

2944
02:26:28,320 --> 02:26:30,920
And then I mentioned Roscoe
Whitney.

2945
02:26:30,920 --> 02:26:35,400
Roscoe Whitney was like a
foreman, you know, that had a

2946
02:26:35,400 --> 02:26:39,480
team of people up there
excavating and restoring too.

2947
02:26:40,160 --> 02:26:42,560
Yeah.
So that's that's the Oracle

2948
02:26:42,560 --> 02:26:45,440
chamber and that's some of the
standing stones you can see out

2949
02:26:45,440 --> 02:26:47,440
there.
And that's a plaque with some of

2950
02:26:47,440 --> 02:26:50,480
the alignments, but not.
So this is that, yeah, that's

2951
02:26:50,480 --> 02:26:53,320
that observation deck that that
shows all the alignments,

2952
02:26:53,320 --> 02:26:55,440
correct?
Right, Yeah, we put that in

2953
02:26:55,440 --> 02:26:58,520
1990570519 75.
Yep.

2954
02:26:58,880 --> 02:27:01,680
And so which which was really
helpful when I was on there

2955
02:27:01,680 --> 02:27:04,920
because it does lay out
everything and it corresponds

2956
02:27:04,920 --> 02:27:09,400
to, you know, using archeo
astronomy and that sort of

2957
02:27:09,400 --> 02:27:11,080
stuff.
It gets really close there.

2958
02:27:11,680 --> 02:27:14,000
So that was, that was super
helpful.

2959
02:27:14,000 --> 02:27:16,520
I just wanted to bring that out.
So there's some of these

2960
02:27:16,520 --> 02:27:18,960
standing stones, and if I'm not
mistaken, that's one of the

2961
02:27:18,960 --> 02:27:21,680
stones that is lined up with the
equinox, right?

2962
02:27:22,400 --> 02:27:24,920
That would actually, actually
happen to the somersaults to

2963
02:27:24,920 --> 02:27:26,920
sunset alignment.
Yeah, right.

2964
02:27:27,160 --> 02:27:27,640
Thank you.
Yeah.

2965
02:27:27,760 --> 02:27:30,520
Yeah.
And then the there is an equinox

2966
02:27:30,560 --> 02:27:33,160
too, but the rock on the right
there actually is none of the

2967
02:27:33,160 --> 02:27:34,600
beautiful.
Yeah, that's another beautiful

2968
02:27:34,600 --> 02:27:38,320
model, that one.
I don't think we have determined

2969
02:27:38,320 --> 02:27:40,400
it's function.
Obviously it's significant.

2970
02:27:40,400 --> 02:27:44,640
It's a big standing stone and
that's the way the alignment

2971
02:27:44,640 --> 02:27:47,840
stones look for the most part.
But it's true north or whether

2972
02:27:47,840 --> 02:27:50,120
it's, you know, the summer
solstice sunset or winter

2973
02:27:50,120 --> 02:27:54,200
solstice sunset, for instance,
some of the stones have fallen

2974
02:27:54,200 --> 02:27:55,880
today.
I would say about half of the

2975
02:27:56,200 --> 02:27:59,280
alignment stones have fallen
just from natural causes, trees

2976
02:27:59,280 --> 02:28:03,200
falling, earthquakes, people,
maybe half are still standing,

2977
02:28:03,200 --> 02:28:06,120
you know, And if you look at
Stonehenge, some of the

2978
02:28:06,120 --> 02:28:11,080
photographs going back before
like the 1940s, you can see a

2979
02:28:11,080 --> 02:28:12,960
lot of it has been restored
today.

2980
02:28:12,960 --> 02:28:14,600
We've been to Stonehenge several
times.

2981
02:28:14,840 --> 02:28:17,440
So that kind of thing does go on
with restoration.

2982
02:28:18,000 --> 02:28:20,320
That stone you pointed, the one
that's on the right side, that

2983
02:28:20,320 --> 02:28:24,640
one of is actually hilted quite
a bit from its vertical and

2984
02:28:24,640 --> 02:28:27,800
we're kind of worried it is
surrounded by stones helping to

2985
02:28:27,800 --> 02:28:30,680
support it in that bottom of it.
I'm sure sitting on bedrock

2986
02:28:31,120 --> 02:28:34,960
we're discussion right now to
and actually to put that thing

2987
02:28:34,960 --> 02:28:38,440
slightly more vertical, you
know, to move it with talking to

2988
02:28:38,440 --> 02:28:42,200
our stone Mason who's an
assistant archaeologist and our

2989
02:28:42,360 --> 02:28:44,120
and our staff and everything
about that.

2990
02:28:44,120 --> 02:28:45,520
And we think it's preventative
maintenance.

2991
02:28:45,520 --> 02:28:48,200
We're going to look at that as
possibly putting it back to

2992
02:28:48,200 --> 02:28:49,760
vertical.
What we're worried about is it

2993
02:28:49,760 --> 02:28:52,520
eventually getting to a point
where we'll actually tip over.

2994
02:28:52,520 --> 02:28:55,440
It may it may have taken
thousands of years for this to

2995
02:28:56,040 --> 02:28:58,480
to occur, but they still do like
Stonehenge.

2996
02:28:58,480 --> 02:29:01,200
When you look at Stonehenge, you
go to a bury all these ancient

2997
02:29:01,200 --> 02:29:03,040
sites.
There's a lot of restoration

2998
02:29:03,040 --> 02:29:05,200
work today.
They try to do preventative

2999
02:29:05,200 --> 02:29:06,880
maintenance rather than
rebuilding.

3000
02:29:07,200 --> 02:29:09,720
But if it's a case where a
stone, you know, the stone

3001
02:29:09,720 --> 02:29:13,080
eventually is going to go over
and it gets to a certain angle

3002
02:29:13,080 --> 02:29:15,720
and the gravity just pulls it
down, you know, or somebody

3003
02:29:15,720 --> 02:29:17,000
says, hey, let me push that
over.

3004
02:29:17,000 --> 02:29:19,440
We don't want that either.
We may actually put that stone.

3005
02:29:19,440 --> 02:29:22,400
It's got to be put back.
The top of it has to go back to

3006
02:29:22,400 --> 02:29:25,720
the left, probably about a foot,
believe it or not.

3007
02:29:25,720 --> 02:29:29,280
You know, it's something in
discussion, you know, and again,

3008
02:29:29,280 --> 02:29:32,360
it's preventative maintenance.
There's one other one like that

3009
02:29:32,360 --> 02:29:35,200
that's on the South side of the
property.

3010
02:29:36,080 --> 02:29:39,040
It's out the outside the main
site near the circuit that runs

3011
02:29:39,040 --> 02:29:40,560
South.
It's kind of close to that.

3012
02:29:40,840 --> 02:29:44,000
And it's at a really bad angle
right now, you know, and maybe

3013
02:29:44,000 --> 02:29:47,280
100 years, maybe 200 years or
maybe, you know, maybe in a few

3014
02:29:47,280 --> 02:29:49,200
years.
I think it actually eventually

3015
02:29:49,240 --> 02:29:52,440
topple over, you know, and
that's, that's just what

3016
02:29:52,440 --> 02:29:54,280
happens, you know, So that's a
possibility.

3017
02:29:54,280 --> 02:29:55,920
And there's a table.
There's a great view of the

3018
02:29:55,920 --> 02:29:59,360
table, the Oracle chambers.
This is that little outlet

3019
02:29:59,360 --> 02:30:01,440
structure.
Yeah, this is that little outlet

3020
02:30:01,440 --> 02:30:04,280
structure I was talking about.
Exactly.

3021
02:30:04,280 --> 02:30:05,880
Yeah.
So a little runnel, we call it a

3022
02:30:05,880 --> 02:30:06,920
runnel.
And there's a groove.

3023
02:30:06,920 --> 02:30:09,200
You can see it's kind of looks
rectangular, but it's actually

3024
02:30:09,200 --> 02:30:12,240
trapezoidal, straight, the big
groove that goes around it.

3025
02:30:12,480 --> 02:30:15,520
The table's kind of a bells gate
sits up on 4 legs.

3026
02:30:16,080 --> 02:30:18,040
When Goodwin saw it, it was
sitting on the ground.

3027
02:30:18,040 --> 02:30:20,280
He didn't see the legs because
it was so much threat that have

3028
02:30:20,280 --> 02:30:22,760
accumulated around it over the
centuries.

3029
02:30:24,120 --> 02:30:27,360
And the Oracle chamber is that
whole thing behind it.

3030
02:30:27,360 --> 02:30:30,960
And when you stand up where you
are in the RIP on the ramp area,

3031
02:30:31,320 --> 02:30:32,800
you can't really tell it's a
chamber there.

3032
02:30:32,800 --> 02:30:36,160
The entrance used to have a roof
over it until 1928 and you first

3033
02:30:36,160 --> 02:30:37,480
went in that was all on the
roof.

3034
02:30:37,480 --> 02:30:41,480
You have photographs of that
town of Salem decided in 28 to

3035
02:30:41,480 --> 02:30:44,760
knock down the front lentil
stone to block the chamber.

3036
02:30:45,360 --> 02:30:48,120
One of the stones up near the
chimney flue has metal bars

3037
02:30:48,120 --> 02:30:50,440
under it.
That slab back then was broken

3038
02:30:50,600 --> 02:30:52,520
when they were afraid it was
going to collapse and they knew

3039
02:30:52,520 --> 02:30:54,440
kids played in there.
They were afraid that somebody's

3040
02:30:54,440 --> 02:30:57,560
going to die.
So almost 100 years ago, the

3041
02:30:57,560 --> 02:31:01,480
town of Salem lowered that slab
in the roof, the lentil.

3042
02:31:01,640 --> 02:31:03,760
That lentil slab unfortunately
gave.

3043
02:31:03,760 --> 02:31:05,680
Stuart's spent time trying to
find it.

3044
02:31:06,000 --> 02:31:08,680
I think he might have tried to
back in the 80s.

3045
02:31:08,680 --> 02:31:11,440
There's more reconstruction than
there is today, even at national

3046
02:31:11,440 --> 02:31:12,640
parks.
We've been up to a lot of these

3047
02:31:12,640 --> 02:31:15,520
8 park and they talk about
preventative maintenance, you

3048
02:31:15,520 --> 02:31:18,800
know, and upkeep, but they don't
do as much restoration today,

3049
02:31:18,800 --> 02:31:21,480
you know, but maybe in the 80s,
we had to put the roof back on

3050
02:31:21,480 --> 02:31:23,920
the Oracle Chamber.
And one thing in our favor of

3051
02:31:23,920 --> 02:31:26,800
doing that, we have photographs
inside and outside of that, how

3052
02:31:26,800 --> 02:31:29,520
that roof once sat as you first
go into the Oracle Chamber.

3053
02:31:29,760 --> 02:31:31,960
And that inference actually
faces West.

3054
02:31:31,960 --> 02:31:33,600
So there's an orientation to
that.

3055
02:31:34,000 --> 02:31:36,960
The entrance, when you went out
of the Oracle chamber, by the

3056
02:31:36,960 --> 02:31:39,000
way, you went through a stone
staircase.

3057
02:31:39,320 --> 02:31:42,080
There was actually that was just
a small, that was a small window

3058
02:31:42,080 --> 02:31:44,360
there.
Kids climbing into that

3059
02:31:44,360 --> 02:31:47,000
structure still after the
entrance was blocked made that

3060
02:31:47,000 --> 02:31:50,360
window bigger, I guess, and
natural erosion caused it to get

3061
02:31:50,360 --> 02:31:53,000
bigger by 58.
When my dad opened it to the

3062
02:31:53,000 --> 02:31:55,760
public, he just, he just
modified and cleaned it a little

3063
02:31:55,760 --> 02:31:57,480
bit more and put a wooden
staircase in there.

3064
02:31:57,480 --> 02:31:59,960
That stayed there till about
1982.

3065
02:31:59,960 --> 02:32:03,160
And David Stewart Smith pulled
out the staircase excavated, I

3066
02:32:03,160 --> 02:32:05,800
think he found a couple of
hammer stones and he built that

3067
02:32:05,800 --> 02:32:07,760
staircase.
It was part of this ocean that

3068
02:32:07,760 --> 02:32:10,440
people were hitting their head
on a stone, which was a winter

3069
02:32:10,440 --> 02:32:12,400
with a window that they hanging
a head on it.

3070
02:32:12,800 --> 02:32:14,960
So we made it a little bit
better for our visitors.

3071
02:32:15,000 --> 02:32:17,560
So that only had one way in, one
way out.

3072
02:32:17,600 --> 02:32:20,920
And it had two windows, one from
the 8 foot bed inside the

3073
02:32:20,920 --> 02:32:23,960
chamber and one it which is the
exit today.

3074
02:32:24,000 --> 02:32:27,560
And it's a window that was
facing kind of so, but the table

3075
02:32:27,560 --> 02:32:31,280
is orientated too, east and
West, a bell shape again, that

3076
02:32:31,280 --> 02:32:33,040
little runnel you mentioned
there with a what?

3077
02:32:33,040 --> 02:32:34,520
With a, you can see the what
looks like I might have.

3078
02:32:34,520 --> 02:32:37,440
You can see a little stain there
or right below it.

3079
02:32:37,440 --> 02:32:40,800
That's where on the on the on
the table itself where you're

3080
02:32:40,800 --> 02:32:42,800
pointing at actually.
Yeah, right there.

3081
02:32:43,000 --> 02:32:45,040
That notch in the bedrock is
intentional too.

3082
02:32:45,040 --> 02:32:46,760
Somebody actually took stone out
of there.

3083
02:32:47,160 --> 02:32:49,280
There's no drill marks.
It was done somehow.

3084
02:32:49,520 --> 02:32:53,320
And that's where the fluid,
whatever it is, goes into that

3085
02:32:53,320 --> 02:32:55,920
cut out.
Some people suggest they put a

3086
02:32:56,320 --> 02:33:00,800
stone base like in there, or
terracotta, you know, like a

3087
02:33:01,280 --> 02:33:04,720
clay base or even a wooden one
to collect the fluid, you know,

3088
02:33:05,000 --> 02:33:07,560
but that maybe they didn't.
Maybe they just like go into the

3089
02:33:07,840 --> 02:33:11,000
rock and it stayed on the rock
or whatever it was.

3090
02:33:12,200 --> 02:33:15,560
So that table actually came from
beneath that wooden platform

3091
02:33:15,560 --> 02:33:17,000
where the astronomical center
is.

3092
02:33:17,000 --> 02:33:19,440
Whoever carved it took it out of
the bedrock.

3093
02:33:19,440 --> 02:33:21,920
You could see the same shape in
the bedrock today.

3094
02:33:22,160 --> 02:33:24,760
They moved it 40 feet and they
set it up on the four legs.

3095
02:33:24,800 --> 02:33:27,960
And that there picture is to the
West.

3096
02:33:28,280 --> 02:33:29,440
Oh, we're back at the table.
Yeah.

3097
02:33:29,440 --> 02:33:31,680
So that's.
So that table is about 40 feet

3098
02:33:31,680 --> 02:33:33,920
from where it's quarry socket
is.

3099
02:33:33,920 --> 02:33:36,880
And you're looking at, I think
this is one of the walls.

3100
02:33:37,920 --> 02:33:42,560
We did an excavation along that
wall, further down the wall back

3101
02:33:42,560 --> 02:33:49,040
in July.
My assistant archaeologist

3102
02:33:49,160 --> 02:33:53,640
worked with our David Stewart
Smith and Pat Hume, Pete, myself

3103
02:33:53,640 --> 02:33:57,680
and our manager who's actually
getting his his graduate work in

3104
02:33:57,680 --> 02:34:01,160
history and archaeology now, and
he's been with us for six years.

3105
02:34:01,160 --> 02:34:03,200
He's working with a New
Hampshire State archaeologist,

3106
02:34:03,200 --> 02:34:05,960
done a couple projects this
year, last year at the state

3107
02:34:05,960 --> 02:34:08,240
laboratory.
So he's been nursing himself

3108
02:34:08,240 --> 02:34:10,360
into archaeologists.
So we did a dig out there

3109
02:34:10,360 --> 02:34:14,120
looking for the 2 stones from a
contagonal state window this

3110
02:34:14,120 --> 02:34:16,920
summer.
The tag window was photographed

3111
02:34:16,920 --> 02:34:20,840
in 70 that the last photographs
you had of it, I thought in five

3112
02:34:20,840 --> 02:34:22,560
years ago.
It's just one slide in an

3113
02:34:22,560 --> 02:34:24,600
envelope.
My dad wrote on it, a sighting

3114
02:34:24,600 --> 02:34:26,680
portal looking at the winter
solstice sunset.

3115
02:34:27,040 --> 02:34:28,880
I started like, what the heck is
this?

3116
02:34:29,080 --> 02:34:32,520
I don't know of any window.
This is in 2020.

3117
02:34:32,520 --> 02:34:33,680
We already found a few other
one.

3118
02:34:33,680 --> 02:34:36,680
I don't know of any window that
looks like this out there.

3119
02:34:37,200 --> 02:34:39,880
I put this slide aside.
I lost it for five years.

3120
02:34:39,880 --> 02:34:44,440
I thought it in March and well,
we I actually found where it

3121
02:34:44,440 --> 02:34:45,480
was.
It's amazing.

3122
02:34:46,000 --> 02:34:47,560
But I showed a couple of
different.

3123
02:34:47,560 --> 02:34:50,840
That's the eye stone that kind
of looks like a gourd.

3124
02:34:51,080 --> 02:34:53,520
Yeah.
This is this is this is the

3125
02:34:53,520 --> 02:34:56,440
last, this is the last thing I
wanted to show here.

3126
02:34:56,440 --> 02:34:58,120
And then then we'll kind of wrap
up.

3127
02:34:58,960 --> 02:35:05,200
So, so this here is fascinating
to me because this is this is an

3128
02:35:05,200 --> 02:35:09,000
eye that would be reminiscent of
an eye that you would see

3129
02:35:09,000 --> 02:35:13,760
depicted even even either in a
hieroglyph or something that you

3130
02:35:13,760 --> 02:35:17,600
would see coming out of like
Mesopotamia somewhere, right?

3131
02:35:17,600 --> 02:35:21,080
This is this, this is a
representation of an eye.

3132
02:35:21,080 --> 02:35:23,400
Is that correct?
That's right.

3133
02:35:23,440 --> 02:35:25,000
Yeah.
That's very, very fellow.

3134
02:35:25,000 --> 02:35:30,520
I think it's the one that
basically interpreted it as an

3135
02:35:30,520 --> 02:35:34,920
eye in the eye of ball.
The eye of ball in the Bible.

3136
02:35:34,920 --> 02:35:40,880
This ball bail ball is yeah,
ball BAAL is in the Bible is a

3137
02:35:40,880 --> 02:35:45,280
Phoenician God and he's not like
the eye of horse, which I think

3138
02:35:45,280 --> 02:35:47,920
you said you might have meant
hieroglyphics that the Egyptians

3139
02:35:47,920 --> 02:35:53,000
have the eye of horse, the eye
on a dollar bills for the

3140
02:35:53,000 --> 02:35:55,720
pyramid has the eye to the all
see and eye knowledge.

3141
02:35:56,000 --> 02:35:58,520
I think it's a lot of symbology
with that and what that is, it's

3142
02:35:58,520 --> 02:36:01,080
supposed to be the eye of the
almost like where the tear duct

3143
02:36:01,080 --> 02:36:03,480
is.
And if that was the only one,

3144
02:36:04,000 --> 02:36:06,400
there's one other one like that
on the Hilltop and I can never

3145
02:36:06,400 --> 02:36:08,440
find it.
You know that Barry Fell saw 50

3146
02:36:08,440 --> 02:36:11,240
years ago.
But in his book America BC,

3147
02:36:11,240 --> 02:36:15,240
which came out in 76, the first
of his three books he put out,

3148
02:36:15,760 --> 02:36:18,400
it talks a lot about Vermont.
Vermont is actually loaded not

3149
02:36:18,400 --> 02:36:21,080
only with structures, but it's
loaded with inscriptions.

3150
02:36:21,080 --> 02:36:23,080
I think it has the most
inscriptions of anywhere in New

3151
02:36:23,080 --> 02:36:24,960
England and perhaps the whole
Northeast.

3152
02:36:25,440 --> 02:36:29,080
There's more of these there's,
I'm trying to think which

3153
02:36:29,080 --> 02:36:32,320
structure, I'm not sure about
Woodstock calendar too, but

3154
02:36:32,320 --> 02:36:36,200
there are in this book the
location and photographs and

3155
02:36:36,200 --> 02:36:38,760
you'll see that repeated.
So you say, well, that's just a

3156
02:36:38,760 --> 02:36:41,560
coincidence.
It's something natural, not man

3157
02:36:41,560 --> 02:36:43,760
made or whatever.
And you see the same thing

3158
02:36:43,760 --> 02:36:45,760
repeated up in Vermont, you
know.

3159
02:36:46,000 --> 02:36:48,400
And then there's others, I think
in New York, I'm going to say in

3160
02:36:48,400 --> 02:36:50,440
Massachusetts, maybe out in the
Berkshires.

3161
02:36:50,840 --> 02:36:53,760
But if you go to his book
American BC, you can find he has

3162
02:36:53,760 --> 02:36:56,520
a whole chapter in those.
I think we're in Chapter 7.

3163
02:36:56,520 --> 02:36:59,080
I think about our site, yeah,
there's practice about all

3164
02:36:59,200 --> 02:37:02,760
everything else around the
Northeast, but this is repeated

3165
02:37:03,240 --> 02:37:05,760
at other places, particularly up
in Vermont, he says.

3166
02:37:05,760 --> 02:37:08,840
It's the higher ball, ball
being, you know, God, I guess.

3167
02:37:09,920 --> 02:37:11,400
You know, and, and here's the
thing, right?

3168
02:37:11,680 --> 02:37:14,920
As a guy, as a land surveyor,
and that's what I've done for

3169
02:37:14,920 --> 02:37:18,880
the last 30 years, I can tell
you there's no way this shape

3170
02:37:18,880 --> 02:37:21,800
is, is, is naturally occurring,
right?

3171
02:37:22,240 --> 02:37:26,800
There is too much precision.
Nature abhors straight lines.

3172
02:37:27,280 --> 02:37:30,680
That's an awfully straight line.
And then to have a perfect belly

3173
02:37:30,680 --> 02:37:34,440
and two places, right.
This is definitely man made.

3174
02:37:34,840 --> 02:37:37,560
There is no way that is anything
else other than that.

3175
02:37:37,560 --> 02:37:42,400
And when I saw that I was, I was
kind of really shocked.

3176
02:37:42,400 --> 02:37:45,280
And you're right, I did see a
couple other places where there

3177
02:37:45,280 --> 02:37:49,080
was something very similar to
this at different parts in

3178
02:37:49,200 --> 02:37:51,600
throughout throughout the site
itself.

3179
02:37:52,240 --> 02:37:56,720
So Dennis, you've been super,
super gracious with your time.

3180
02:37:56,720 --> 02:38:03,280
We're going on 2 1/2 hours now.
But I do, I do want to ask a

3181
02:38:03,280 --> 02:38:07,200
couple more questions here.
And I would be remiss if I

3182
02:38:07,200 --> 02:38:11,840
didn't ask follow up with this.
When you and I were first

3183
02:38:11,840 --> 02:38:14,600
meeting and, and I was talking
to you about coming on the

3184
02:38:14,600 --> 02:38:17,720
podcast and I had mentioned that
I was Mormon.

3185
02:38:18,120 --> 02:38:22,000
You had said that there is a
site similar to this one up in

3186
02:38:22,000 --> 02:38:24,800
Sharon, Vt on Joseph Smith's
birthplace.

3187
02:38:24,800 --> 02:38:27,000
Is that correct?
Did I understand you correctly?

3188
02:38:28,240 --> 02:38:30,920
Yeah, that would be correct.
It's up in.

3189
02:38:31,720 --> 02:38:35,160
Yeah, it's up.
Joseph Smith's birthplace is

3190
02:38:35,160 --> 02:38:37,880
correct.
Yeah, and it's actually on

3191
02:38:37,880 --> 02:38:43,480
property adjacent to it.
And we visited the the facility.

3192
02:38:43,480 --> 02:38:45,120
The facility is beautiful up
there.

3193
02:38:45,120 --> 02:38:47,560
It's, you know, and they have
guided tours inside the building

3194
02:38:47,560 --> 02:38:49,240
and everything.
And I was going to ask one of

3195
02:38:49,240 --> 02:38:54,080
the guys if he knew how to get
to this particular calendar one

3196
02:38:54,080 --> 02:38:57,040
site, which is next door.
And they were so busy.

3197
02:38:57,040 --> 02:39:00,520
I, you know, I didn't want to,
you know, I didn't want to take

3198
02:39:00,520 --> 02:39:03,320
too much of his time.
And they were very, very nice.

3199
02:39:03,320 --> 02:39:08,880
But yeah, this is Mike Sharon.
I'm trying to think if there's

3200
02:39:08,880 --> 02:39:10,800
another name of the town that's
right there too.

3201
02:39:10,800 --> 02:39:14,120
It begins with an R, But is it
Royalton?

3202
02:39:14,120 --> 02:39:18,440
S Royalton, I think it's called
Elephantine Valley, I think.

3203
02:39:18,600 --> 02:39:22,040
And back when Byron Dicks worked
on it, he was a Vermonter.

3204
02:39:22,120 --> 02:39:24,400
And research.
Remember my dad's group, he was

3205
02:39:24,400 --> 02:39:28,440
an astronomer and he worked for
a company feeding satellites

3206
02:39:28,440 --> 02:39:30,920
into space using Canon.
He worked in the open, the

3207
02:39:30,920 --> 02:39:33,880
Canadian border.
And that was an interesting

3208
02:39:33,880 --> 02:39:39,280
thing by itself because he, the
guy that ran the whole company,

3209
02:39:39,280 --> 02:39:42,840
ended up on 60 Minutes.
He mysteriously died and there's

3210
02:39:42,840 --> 02:39:45,960
a whole controversy.
So it got on CBS 60 Minutes

3211
02:39:45,960 --> 02:39:48,640
about his boss that ran the
company.

3212
02:39:48,640 --> 02:39:52,400
So Byron ended up the company
folded up, I guess he moved to

3213
02:39:52,400 --> 02:39:55,640
Massachusetts.
I work for the Air Force

3214
02:39:55,880 --> 02:39:59,040
Research Center down in Hanscom,
Bedford, MA.

3215
02:39:59,040 --> 02:40:03,640
And the very, very smart guy
Byron wrote the book called.

3216
02:40:04,720 --> 02:40:08,280
The book is called Manitou with
James Mayberg's Union, and he's

3217
02:40:08,280 --> 02:40:11,800
another interesting guy that
I'll get, AKA Cherry over, over

3218
02:40:11,800 --> 02:40:15,680
in the Mediterranean.
I think that was where Santorini

3219
02:40:15,680 --> 02:40:18,840
was, but he was also an engineer
from MIT.

3220
02:40:18,840 --> 02:40:21,600
We have a number of those guys
like Roscoe Whitney and he's the

3221
02:40:21,600 --> 02:40:24,840
guy that actually developed the
DD submersible Alvin that's just

3222
02:40:24,840 --> 02:40:28,040
getting retired up since 1964
when he developed it.

3223
02:40:28,040 --> 02:40:29,840
So he was one of the chief
engineers on that.

3224
02:40:30,160 --> 02:40:32,080
He's an archaeologist.
He was an engineer and they

3225
02:40:32,080 --> 02:40:34,240
wrote the book, book Manitou,
read Manitou.

3226
02:40:34,240 --> 02:40:37,160
You see a lot of what you're
talking about and calendar one

3227
02:40:37,160 --> 02:40:39,760
is right near Joseph Smith.
They talk about Joseph Smith,

3228
02:40:40,240 --> 02:40:43,000
and when I was flying out of
Vermont, my early days back in

3229
02:40:43,000 --> 02:40:47,280
81 through 83, I did fire patrol
too, besides flying in the Twin

3230
02:40:47,280 --> 02:40:50,520
Otters, passengers and stuff,
for a company called Precision

3231
02:40:50,520 --> 02:40:52,240
Airlines, and they did fire
patrol.

3232
02:40:52,240 --> 02:40:54,880
And I'd go right over Joseph
Smith's, the whole estate.

3233
02:40:54,880 --> 02:40:56,240
You can see it from the air.
It's beautiful.

3234
02:40:56,440 --> 02:40:58,000
And that's right where that
chamber is.

3235
02:40:58,000 --> 02:41:00,680
It's right next door.
The thought is that Joseph Smith

3236
02:41:00,680 --> 02:41:02,880
may have even played in the
structure.

3237
02:41:03,160 --> 02:41:06,360
If you ever come across anything
about that, please let us know.

3238
02:41:06,360 --> 02:41:09,800
I don't know what sources that
is, but it was talked about

3239
02:41:09,800 --> 02:41:12,040
quite a bit because Joseph Smith
was right there.

3240
02:41:12,320 --> 02:41:15,560
The chamber's there and that
structure is astronomically

3241
02:41:15,560 --> 02:41:17,160
aligned.
And I think the hills around

3242
02:41:17,160 --> 02:41:19,960
there have structures.
So it's like in a bowl, I'm not

3243
02:41:19,960 --> 02:41:22,920
mistaken, and you're in the
middle bowl with a chamber and

3244
02:41:22,920 --> 02:41:25,240
you're looking out.
And back in those days, the

3245
02:41:25,240 --> 02:41:28,760
whole area was clear trees.
Today it's I guess all forested

3246
02:41:28,760 --> 02:41:32,480
in in the last 50 years.
So it's hard to see anything but

3247
02:41:32,480 --> 02:41:34,880
Byron took pictures.
It ends up in his book and ends

3248
02:41:34,880 --> 02:41:37,000
up in Barry Fell's book because
I mean, they all knew each

3249
02:41:37,040 --> 02:41:38,840
other.
Barry Fell went there.

3250
02:41:38,840 --> 02:41:41,560
It's an amazing site.
So yes, right next to Joseph

3251
02:41:41,560 --> 02:41:45,360
Smith's property is, is a
calendar one site, I think that

3252
02:41:45,360 --> 02:41:48,480
was named at by Byron Ditch and
Calendar 2 site, which is also

3253
02:41:48,480 --> 02:41:50,760
famous is in South Woodstock,
Vt.

3254
02:41:50,760 --> 02:41:53,520
You know, I think it's, we've
been to both of those areas just

3255
02:41:53,520 --> 02:41:55,920
recently.
So yes, yeah, there is a there

3256
02:41:55,920 --> 02:41:58,240
is a Joseph Smith thing going on
there and it'll be interesting

3257
02:41:58,240 --> 02:42:02,160
to find out if there's anything
anywhere that he mentions his

3258
02:42:02,160 --> 02:42:04,520
structure, maybe playing in it
as a youth.

3259
02:42:04,600 --> 02:42:06,080
I mean, I would as a kid for
sure.

3260
02:42:06,120 --> 02:42:07,440
You know, I mean, that's what
kids.

3261
02:42:07,480 --> 02:42:08,720
Absolutely.
I'll check.

3262
02:42:09,040 --> 02:42:10,320
I'll check with a couple of
guys.

3263
02:42:10,320 --> 02:42:12,280
I know that kind.
Of do.

3264
02:42:13,080 --> 02:42:16,400
Yeah, I'll check with a couple.
Guys, I know that that kind of

3265
02:42:16,400 --> 02:42:20,320
do this for like that's the only
thing they do is, is look at the

3266
02:42:20,320 --> 02:42:24,040
history and look at the look at
some sites and I'll, I'll one of

3267
02:42:24,040 --> 02:42:27,240
them's Rod Meldrum and the other
is I'll reach out to Wayne May

3268
02:42:27,240 --> 02:42:29,200
and see if they have any
information on that.

3269
02:42:31,040 --> 02:42:32,320
Oh, Wayne May.
I'm familiar with him.

3270
02:42:32,400 --> 02:42:33,280
Yeah.
Are you right, You ancient

3271
02:42:33,280 --> 02:42:34,800
American?
Yep.

3272
02:42:35,560 --> 02:42:36,200
Yep.
Right.

3273
02:42:36,200 --> 02:42:37,120
Yeah.
My, my public.

3274
02:42:37,120 --> 02:42:41,000
Yeah, we've been in that
magazine over the years and my

3275
02:42:41,000 --> 02:42:43,440
publicist has done some articles
for him too.

3276
02:42:43,720 --> 02:42:46,360
But yeah, that Joseph Smith
thing's very interesting to us.

3277
02:42:46,960 --> 02:42:48,480
And next time we get up that
way, we're up there.

3278
02:42:48,480 --> 02:42:50,560
This summer.
We did some other stuff and I

3279
02:42:50,560 --> 02:42:52,800
said we just didn't have time to
quite do that, but I want to go

3280
02:42:52,800 --> 02:42:56,240
back and pursue that again to
see if I can see the chamber

3281
02:42:56,240 --> 02:42:58,320
finally and see the area.
But again, I think it's really

3282
02:42:58,320 --> 02:43:04,680
forced it in since Byron Dix did
a lot of the work back in 737475

3283
02:43:04,960 --> 02:43:10,240
and he was one of our, he was
one of the big parts of our

3284
02:43:10,360 --> 02:43:12,360
astronaut because he was a
astronomer.

3285
02:43:12,560 --> 02:43:15,000
He made his own telescopes and
he actually came down and did

3286
02:43:15,280 --> 02:43:17,960
his own separate study of our
astronomical alignments.

3287
02:43:18,200 --> 02:43:21,000
We had Beverly Pearson
Associates, a survey company, do

3288
02:43:21,000 --> 02:43:25,440
their their study on our site.
And then my uncle Oz and I was

3289
02:43:25,440 --> 02:43:28,280
part of his team.
We did our own separate thing

3290
02:43:28,520 --> 02:43:32,400
and by 77 we all compiled our
the data.

3291
02:43:32,400 --> 02:43:37,320
We made maps in a my dad wanted
to have it already for around

3292
02:43:38,760 --> 02:43:42,080
the end of 77, maybe at
December, and he had everybody

3293
02:43:42,080 --> 02:43:45,080
gather and they took all the
maps and then all the maps came

3294
02:43:45,080 --> 02:43:47,560
out the same.
So he wanted to make sure that

3295
02:43:47,560 --> 02:43:50,280
the data was correct and
everybody was getting the same

3296
02:43:50,720 --> 02:43:52,880
information.
And then it all agreed, you

3297
02:43:52,880 --> 02:43:55,400
know, there's no like, I got
this, this is different than

3298
02:43:55,400 --> 02:43:56,680
yours.
It was perfect.

3299
02:43:56,880 --> 02:43:59,320
That's when they submitted it to
The Hobbit, Smithsonian first.

3300
02:43:59,800 --> 02:44:01,440
So Byron Dix is a big part of
that.

3301
02:44:01,440 --> 02:44:04,400
But he was really, if you get
involved with Joseph Smith and

3302
02:44:04,400 --> 02:44:07,320
Calendar one particularly,
you'll see that Byron Dix's name

3303
02:44:07,320 --> 02:44:11,960
come up E it's Dix, Byron Dix.
And he passed away, I think 46

3304
02:44:11,960 --> 02:44:14,680
years old, probably in the late
90s.

3305
02:44:14,680 --> 02:44:17,000
I think unfortunately, he died
way before his time.

3306
02:44:17,000 --> 02:44:19,680
You know, he was really, really
happily involved with this

3307
02:44:19,680 --> 02:44:23,800
stuff.
Yeah, no, totally.

3308
02:44:25,520 --> 02:44:27,440
Last question, I'm going to let
you go here.

3309
02:44:27,920 --> 02:44:32,840
So what we have here is we have
a site that's been dated pretty

3310
02:44:32,840 --> 02:44:35,200
confidently to to 4000 years
ago.

3311
02:44:35,880 --> 02:44:41,080
We seem to have markings that
are are are definitely pointing

3312
02:44:41,080 --> 02:44:46,000
towards the geographical region.
We have an entire complex, not

3313
02:44:46,000 --> 02:44:50,320
just one or two things here and
it's one of many throughout New

3314
02:44:50,320 --> 02:44:55,360
England.
As you've been on this thing

3315
02:44:55,560 --> 02:45:00,760
essentially your whole life, If
someone was to ask you what this

3316
02:45:00,760 --> 02:45:05,360
site was used for, the one that
you you work on, what do you

3317
02:45:05,360 --> 02:45:08,920
think it is?
Yeah, that's a great question.

3318
02:45:08,920 --> 02:45:12,360
I think, I think it's a ancient
ceremonial site.

3319
02:45:12,360 --> 02:45:14,920
I think people gathered here,
perhaps even people coming in

3320
02:45:14,920 --> 02:45:17,560
like a pilgrimage to this
particular site because it's so

3321
02:45:17,560 --> 02:45:20,240
big.
It's the kind of the highest

3322
02:45:20,240 --> 02:45:23,240
concentration of structures and
it really has like a center to

3323
02:45:23,240 --> 02:45:26,800
it, the main site versus other
sites that have a lot of

3324
02:45:26,800 --> 02:45:28,600
chambers scattered all over the
landscape.

3325
02:45:28,840 --> 02:45:30,320
But I think it's a ceremonial
site.

3326
02:45:30,560 --> 02:45:32,280
It's really astronomically
aligned.

3327
02:45:32,280 --> 02:45:34,600
I'm sure that they tied it into
their village and it was just

3328
02:45:34,600 --> 02:45:36,200
like, there's no separation than
that.

3329
02:45:36,520 --> 02:45:39,480
And they came here and they
celebrated longest day, shortest

3330
02:45:39,480 --> 02:45:43,800
day of the year, the mid season,
also the cross quarter days.

3331
02:45:43,800 --> 02:45:47,160
And and then it gets into the
into the star, you know,

3332
02:45:47,160 --> 02:45:49,040
alignments, which adds a little
more confusion.

3333
02:45:49,040 --> 02:45:50,480
Why were they watching the
stars?

3334
02:45:51,240 --> 02:45:54,040
But stars like, you know,
consolations like the Pleiades

3335
02:45:54,040 --> 02:45:56,440
were actually bookends when
growing season if they were

3336
02:45:56,440 --> 02:46:00,080
doing any type of agriculture,
migrations of animals and stuff.

3337
02:46:00,080 --> 02:46:02,560
But I think it was a gathering
place and it does have chambers

3338
02:46:02,560 --> 02:46:03,640
that look like they were
burials.

3339
02:46:03,640 --> 02:46:08,920
So ceremonial place, a burial
place and then an astronomically

3340
02:46:08,920 --> 02:46:11,280
aligned place, you know, But
again, I don't think it's a

3341
02:46:11,280 --> 02:46:14,160
village where people live.
They probably live close by in

3342
02:46:14,160 --> 02:46:18,000
wood hide or by, you know,
structures that they decompose

3343
02:46:18,000 --> 02:46:20,880
after a few dozen years.
And that's something we hope to

3344
02:46:20,880 --> 02:46:23,440
discover someday.
But I think it was one of the

3345
02:46:23,440 --> 02:46:27,280
biggest, you know, the
ceremonial places throughout the

3346
02:46:27,280 --> 02:46:29,320
whole Northeast.
It just seems unique in that

3347
02:46:29,320 --> 02:46:31,080
way.
It's, you know, it's stuck so

3348
02:46:31,080 --> 02:46:34,760
much on this hill and everything
on our hill you can find all

3349
02:46:34,760 --> 02:46:36,880
over the Northeast.
The structures, the shapes, the

3350
02:46:36,880 --> 02:46:39,640
size, the styles.
It's kind of a reflection of

3351
02:46:39,640 --> 02:46:43,080
what's over the whole going from
Canada all the way down to about

3352
02:46:43,120 --> 02:46:46,040
Virginia.
So, but I don't know if that's

3353
02:46:46,040 --> 02:46:48,680
the answer, but that's where
we're kind of at today, you

3354
02:46:48,680 --> 02:46:51,240
know, with all the information
and what we know about the site.

3355
02:46:52,880 --> 02:46:57,160
Oh man, I'll tell you what, this
was fun and you have a standing

3356
02:46:57,160 --> 02:47:00,800
invitation to come back on
anytime because as you make new

3357
02:47:00,800 --> 02:47:02,480
discoveries, I want to hear
about them bro.

3358
02:47:03,560 --> 02:47:04,760
Oh, thank you.
Yeah, we're working with the

3359
02:47:04,760 --> 02:47:06,360
astronomer right now.
As a matter of fact, going to go

3360
02:47:06,360 --> 02:47:09,280
back to the museum today.
We're working on all the Lidar

3361
02:47:09,280 --> 02:47:11,520
that we took last year,
different Lidar, because he's

3362
02:47:11,520 --> 02:47:13,560
interested in.
He's retired from the University

3363
02:47:13,560 --> 02:47:15,200
of Arizona.
He reached out to us last

3364
02:47:15,200 --> 02:47:17,080
spring.
He's working on some other

3365
02:47:17,440 --> 02:47:20,160
projects.
He's back in Texas living, and

3366
02:47:20,600 --> 02:47:24,200
I'm having him talk to a
surveyor from the 1970s, Charlie

3367
02:47:24,200 --> 02:47:26,320
Pearson.
I have him in communication and

3368
02:47:26,320 --> 02:47:29,680
now I have the Lidar gentleman
from a company called GPI that's

3369
02:47:29,680 --> 02:47:33,120
from Maine to Florida.
We did all the entire hill with

3370
02:47:33,120 --> 02:47:39,040
his is, is drone last year, like
a $90,000 unit and he can see

3371
02:47:39,040 --> 02:47:41,920
down to about a centimeter with
that and he may have to come

3372
02:47:41,920 --> 02:47:44,680
back and do a little bit more
work to have the precision.

3373
02:47:45,360 --> 02:47:49,280
So our astronomer down in Texas
wants to actually start at the

3374
02:47:49,280 --> 02:47:53,440
beginning of our research again
with a solar, then the lunar and

3375
02:47:53,440 --> 02:47:55,160
then the astronomical
alignments.

3376
02:47:55,640 --> 02:47:58,400
He's done stuff up in Canada
near Oak Island.

3377
02:47:58,400 --> 02:48:01,200
He's done stuff on the Newport
Tower and he's done a lot of

3378
02:48:01,200 --> 02:48:03,320
famous sites around the world.
But he's retired.

3379
02:48:03,320 --> 02:48:06,320
He just wants to do that just
now, I think for enjoyment, you

3380
02:48:06,320 --> 02:48:09,440
know, in his retirement years.
So we may have some stuff coming

3381
02:48:09,440 --> 02:48:12,280
out pretty soon about that.
And we have a carbon dating

3382
02:48:12,280 --> 02:48:15,120
right now waiting on on one of
our artifacts.

3383
02:48:15,640 --> 02:48:19,040
It's in Miami at Beta
Laboratories and we should be

3384
02:48:19,040 --> 02:48:21,600
hearing news on that soon too.
So if anything develops for

3385
02:48:21,600 --> 02:48:23,600
that, I'll certainly will send
you a note on that too.

3386
02:48:24,840 --> 02:48:27,480
Perfect.
Well, Dennis, this was fun.

3387
02:48:27,480 --> 02:48:30,520
I appreciate it, man.
Anything else you want to say

3388
02:48:30,520 --> 02:48:33,880
before we drop off here?
Well, thank you so much.

3389
02:48:33,880 --> 02:48:37,400
I enjoyed meeting you and your
wife and you know, coming up in

3390
02:48:37,400 --> 02:48:40,520
a winter solstice pretty soon
we're open for for the winter

3391
02:48:40,520 --> 02:48:42,080
solstice.
We're open year round.

3392
02:48:42,080 --> 02:48:44,840
The only days we close are
Christmas and Thanksgiving and

3393
02:48:44,840 --> 02:48:48,880
the occasional NE snowstorm
Blizzard that we get up here and

3394
02:48:48,880 --> 02:48:51,360
we do snow throwing in the
winter and that kind of cool

3395
02:48:51,360 --> 02:48:53,520
because we open up the entire
106 acres.

3396
02:48:53,960 --> 02:48:56,840
When you visited us, you
probably saw roughly 16 acres

3397
02:48:56,840 --> 02:48:59,160
with 106 acres.
So we opened up and that's where

3398
02:48:59,160 --> 02:49:02,160
serpent rolls are windows and
quarries, but I'll get to see.

3399
02:49:02,280 --> 02:49:05,200
But we kind of restricted to 16
acres during the normal months,

3400
02:49:05,200 --> 02:49:07,800
you know, So that's coming up
soon, as soon as we get a little

3401
02:49:07,800 --> 02:49:10,640
bit of snow up here, which is
probably pretty quickly.

3402
02:49:12,120 --> 02:49:13,480
Yeah.
Well, thank you, Dave, so much.

3403
02:49:14,240 --> 02:49:16,440
No, thank you.
Hang out for just 5 minutes, all

3404
02:49:16,440 --> 02:49:18,560
right?
I will, Dave, thank you and

3405
02:49:18,560 --> 02:49:22,520
thank your audience very much
and go to stonehengeusa.com if

3406
02:49:22,520 --> 02:49:25,600
they want to check us out all.
Right, will do.

3407
02:49:25,600 --> 02:49:27,800
I'll put the link in the in the
episode show notes.

3408
02:49:27,800 --> 02:49:30,120
All right, bud.
Thank you so much, Dave.

3409
02:49:30,120 --> 02:49:31,640
Appreciate it.
Thank you.

3410
02:49:31,800 --> 02:49:32,760
All right.
Bye everybody.

3411
02:50:01,360 --> 02:50:01,440
The.