5,000 Year Leap Discussion #4

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Hey everybody, if you remember a
few months back I mentioned that

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we were going to be starting a
discussion group on the book The

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5000 Year Leap.
Before I go into all the details

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here, I want to tell you what
the book's about.

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The book goes into the
principles behind our founding

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documents like the Declaration
of Independence, the

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Constitution, the Bill of
Rights, and it really

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illuminates and and brings those
principles to life.

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It was written by Kleon Skousen
some number of years back, but

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it's still a very pertinent book
to this day.

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If you want to understand what
the original plan was for

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America.
Now we've started holding the

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discussion groups.
In fact, it just last night on

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Monday, we finished up the the
5th discussion.

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Now it was suggested to me that
maybe I go ahead and I post

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these on the podcast.
And so with the help of another

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gentleman, we went ahead and
we've cleaned it all up.

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It's it.
And we're going to start loading

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those today.
Now we've done 5 to this point.

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My plan is, is I'm going to load
the 1st 4 today all the way

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through Friday and you'll be
able to find those and just be

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able to listen to them and get a
feel for what it's all about.

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Now if you decide you want to
join the the discussion group

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live, I've tried to make that
easy for you.

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I put a link to the Zoom
discussion group that we hold

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every Monday night at 7:00 PM
Central.

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In conjunction with that, I've
also uploaded the link and all

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the episode notes for, for kind
of this discussion group where

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you can join on that Telegram
group and kind of join in some,

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some extracurricular discussion
if you'd like throughout the

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week.
You'll also be able to find the

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slides I used for my
presentations and that sort of

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thing there.
Now this in no way effects

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anything I'm doing on Saturday.
You're you'll still be able to

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get the the normal podcast as it
always is on Saturday.

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This is just something extra
that'll go till May for you.

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So again, I hope you guys enjoy
these things.

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If you wish to join the
discussion group and the

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Telegram group, you can find
those links and all the

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discussion group episode show
notes.

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Anyway, I hope you enjoy this if
you decide to join the

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discussion.
Group I look.

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Forward to seeing you there
again.

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That's every Monday night, 7:00
PM Central.

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Thanks everybody.
Bye.

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All right.
I think we can go ahead and get

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going.
Tim, would you mind giving us an

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opening prayer tonight, brother?
Yeah, you bet.

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Father in Heaven, we come before
you at this time this evening

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and ask for your spirit to be.
But this fall we study the

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Constitution and study the 5000
yearly.

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We ask that we may learn
according to your will and that

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you'll guide the speakers
tonight, and that all may be

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done that is pleasing to you
tonight.

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We thank you for this
opportunity and for all that you

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do for us.
And we ask this in the name of

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Jesus Christ, Amen.
Thanks, Tim.

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All right, we'll go ahead and
share my screen here and we'll

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just get rolling.
So this is Week 4, I believe

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that we're starting here and
we're going to go over the, the

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1st and 2nd principle.
So if for those who are jumping

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on for their first time or
anything, we, we've been going

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out this, like I said, for about
four weeks now.

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And the, the first week was just
really kind of tackling the kind

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of how, how the discussion group
was going to be formatted kind

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of what to expect that sort of
thing.

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There's a, there's a, a reading
list kind of shows you where

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we're going to be at any certain
week here.

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And that's, look, that's always
about the possibility of

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changing a little bit.
I'm going to try to stick really

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close, but these things have a
way of, of going a little longer

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sometimes.
And so I'll always update that

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going forward here if that's
changed.

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So the first part, just kind of
that the second week we really

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broke into kind of the structure
of government a little bit.

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And then we finished that up
last week.

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So we're on to the principles
one and two, and that starts

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pretty much on page 37 of the
book itself.

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And I want to say this before I
get started, I was talking to

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Amber and Tanya and they're
like, oh, so, so how's the class

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going?
I'm like, good.

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I'm really excited for this
week, meaning today.

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And they said, why is that?
And I said, oh, we're we're

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we're going to talk about a
little bit about Cicero and his

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ideas on government.
And I realized that they were

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looking at me probably the way I
look at, I don't know, fabric in

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the fabric store, right?
I think I think they were like,

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well, that's his thing and
that's good.

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But it I think it did really
drive home the fact I am a

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little bit of a nerd about all
this stuff, but I think it's

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really cool.
So now as we head into this part

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here, and this is the bulk of
where we'll spend our time for

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the remainder of this discussion
group, we're we're now going go

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going to go through the one
through 28 principles that kind

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of make the constitution what it
is.

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And as we talk about things
tonight going forward, I would

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encourage you that like as you
hear stuff from Cicero, I'm

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going to ask the question every
so often, what does this remind

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you of?
And so I, I'm hoping that you're

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making connections between what
was revealed anciently and what

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the founders have done in more
modern times, because I think it

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shows a, a beautiful thread that
that these truths really are and

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these principles really are
eternal in nature.

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And it's important that we wrap
our minds around them.

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So with that, let's go ahead and
let's just get going here.

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Shrink that down, move that out
of the way.

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There we go.
So Cicero, does anyone want to

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take a stab on who Cicero was?
I've outlined just a couple of

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things here, but does anyone
have it have something they'd

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like to add on who they who who
Cicero was?

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OK, Cicero was a a Roman lawyer
essentially, but he was more

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than just a lawyer.
He was a deep student of both

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law and Rome as well as
philosophy in Athens.

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And he was very forward thinking
not only for his day.

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I'd say he's probably still kind
of forward thinking for today

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in, in how he viewed law and not
only how he viewed law, but

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where he saw the ultimate
originator of that law who that

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was, you know, he certainly
wasn't a Jew or a Christian, but

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he was someone who was on to
some things.

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And I think you'll you'll be
kind of surprised to find out

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some of the things that he kind
of wrestled out himself by these

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things.
So again, he studies law in

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Rome.
He's he studies philosophy in

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Athens during the, during his
time in Rome, he actually

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ascends to the rank of Roman
consul, which was like one of

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the highest positions that you
could have in Rome in that day.

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And he, he was a contemporary of
Julius Caesar.

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Now, about the time things start
getting dicey in Rome and Julius

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Caesar is assassinated, Cicero
gets exiled.

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And then just a year after
Caesar was assassinated, Cicero

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went the same way.
But his his legacy can't be

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can't really be overstated here
on what he did.

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William Ebertstein of Princeton
had this to say about him.

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The only Roman political writer
who has exercised enduring

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influence throughout the ages is
Cicero.

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We'll find that his ideas carry
forward.

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And I would say these aren't
necessarily his ideas.

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I think that in much the same
way, all of us, no matter what

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church or religion we belong to,
if we're honest seekers, the

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Spirit's going to lead us to
truth.

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And I think Cicero was that
honest seeker.

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And I think he did in, in the
matters of law and philosophy

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behind the law, he was led to
certain things.

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All right, moving on.
So this sums up kind of Cicero's

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overall view on what law is.
He says once the reality of the

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Creator is clearly identified in
the mind, the only intelligent

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approach to government, justice
and human relations is in terms

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of the laws which the Supreme
Creator has already established.

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The Creator's order of things is
called natural law.

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Now we find this a lot in the
American Declaration as well as

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well.
Maybe not so much the

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Declaration, but definitely the
the Constitution as well as the

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writings that went along with
that.

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Things like The Federalist
Papers, other writings of the

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founders where it will be called
Nature's law or the law of

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nature's God.
And I think the founders framed

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it the way they did pretty
intentionally.

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I think they were trying to
create a tent in which they felt

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like all men can can get behind
if they're honest in, in in who

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they are.
And so as we go forward here,

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we're going to hear the term
natural law a lot.

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Now I want to say this at at the
outset, I don't think all of

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natural law as outlined by
Cicero is always necessarily

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interchangeable here.
But for what we're doing at this

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part in this juncture, I think
you can replace the word nature

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for God if you would like,
because I think there, there's a

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lot of carry over here.
All right, let's move on here.

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Why?
Why do you think it's I, I want

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to ask this question.
I want to throw this out there.

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Cicero puts something very
interesting.

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He says once the reality of the
creator is clearly identified in

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the mind, the only intelligent
approach to government, justice

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and human relations is in terms
of laws, which the Supreme

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Creator has already established.
Why is it important in to to

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recognize the Creator before we
move on to to things like laws

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and government?
And I'll throw that out there

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for anyone who wants to to
answer.

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You know, I find it kind of
interesting that he speaks here

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on the reality of the creator.
He's not speaking about the

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Pantheon, right?
Right.

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When you consider the Greek
Pantheon, the Roman Pantheon,

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these things, they're very
lawless.

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Really.
It's really those are more of

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like emotions, temperaments,
things that are inconsistent and

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there's no eternal structure to
them.

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They're just kind of passions
that rise up.

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You'd almost say it's
lawlessness.

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And it seems that Cicero is
completely disregarding the, the

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Pagan religious ideas and has a
firmly fixed idea on monotheism,

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the saying the creator and
absolutely a very clear

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understanding on on who the
creator is not, not A and it's,

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that's the foundation to
understanding law, at least in

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his mind.
And I think that's a fascinating

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approach.
And I think there's a lot of

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truth to that.
Absolutely.

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You know, I, I do want to be
fair, Cicero and, and we'll get

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to a few parts here where he
does refer to the gods.

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But what is interesting is, is
that you can pick things like

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this out where it makes me
wonder.

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And, and I don't think we'll
ever know.

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I haven't discovered a work on
Cicero that really illuminates

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us at all.
But I almost think that

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sometimes Cicero is flirting
with Ohio with what we might

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look at as Mormons as the gods,
right?

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In terms of there's one that we
deal with primarily, but there

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could be others.
I think Cicero is definitely

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taking that kind of approach
here.

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I just, I think you're 100%
right, Justin.

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He, he does seem to be a little
bit of his ahead of his time.

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And this is awfully flirty with
Ohio, for lack of a better term,

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monotheism for sure.
So, Justin, can you just monitor

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2 if any hands go up, I'm not
sure I'll see them while I'm

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sharing my screen here.
Yeah, yeah, All right.

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Does anyone have anything else
they'd like to add to that

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before we move on?
That's.

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Important.
Just a winster, right?

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A few minutes.
So we next go to the

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characteristics of natural law
or law of nature's God.

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One of those that he points out
is that it's universally

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applicable.
I want to throw that out to

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someone.
What do you think it means when

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a law of God or law is naturally
or universally applicable?

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That any good or just law needs
to be able to apply to us as

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well as our neighbor equally.
Absolutely.

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I think that's certainly part of
it, that it applies to people no

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matter who they are, right?
That the law we, we would call

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that justice being blind, right,
being able to, to have the law

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dispensed regardless of your
station.

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Anybody else have something
they'd like to add to to what

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00:15:16,800 --> 00:15:20,560
you know universal application
would mean in terms of law?

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00:15:21,880 --> 00:15:25,080
Does it have anything to do with
a timeless nature of it?

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00:15:25,960 --> 00:15:27,600
That's exactly what I was
thinking.

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00:15:27,640 --> 00:15:30,120
Vanessa, do you, do you want to
expound on that a little bit?

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00:15:31,000 --> 00:15:31,560
What?
Do you mean?

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00:15:31,560 --> 00:15:36,280
Timeless application.
Means that no matter what era we

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00:15:36,280 --> 00:15:41,240
live in or what culture we live
in, it should apply across the

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board and not be changed by
whatever's happening at the

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00:15:45,880 --> 00:15:49,720
time.
Absolutely.

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00:15:50,200 --> 00:15:54,800
Absolutely.
Can anybody think of an A time

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00:15:54,800 --> 00:16:02,280
when an argument was used to to
pass a law where it seems to

241
00:16:02,280 --> 00:16:07,120
contradict with this universal
application premise?

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00:16:10,600 --> 00:16:13,760
Sometimes in history we can see
people say, well, gosh, I mean,

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00:16:14,440 --> 00:16:18,000
the founders couldn't have seen
what we would be going through,

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00:16:18,000 --> 00:16:19,920
right?
That's kind of a common argument

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00:16:20,440 --> 00:16:28,040
against the Constitution or in
allowing legislative bodies to

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00:16:28,120 --> 00:16:30,800
to progress past the
Constitution, so to speak.

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00:16:31,600 --> 00:16:35,760
I would say that a lot of gun
control laws might apply that

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00:16:35,760 --> 00:16:38,480
way.
I think you're right.

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00:16:38,680 --> 00:16:41,200
I think you're right.
I think I think, you know, one

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00:16:41,200 --> 00:16:46,240
of the arguments that they have
made, people who are not

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00:16:46,240 --> 00:16:48,880
necessarily in favor of the
Second Amendment might say

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00:16:48,880 --> 00:16:52,240
something like, well, gosh, the
founders couldn't have seen a

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00:16:52,320 --> 00:16:56,800
gun that holds 20 rounds.
They wouldn't be in favor of

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00:16:56,800 --> 00:16:58,840
that.
That's one.

255
00:16:59,800 --> 00:17:01,840
Anybody else have any other
examples?

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00:17:02,960 --> 00:17:04,560
Yeah, I would add to this The
Patriot.

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00:17:04,560 --> 00:17:06,640
Act.
Go ahead, go ahead.

258
00:17:06,760 --> 00:17:09,040
We'll go to Corey and then we'll
go back to Kim.

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00:17:09,040 --> 00:17:12,480
Go ahead, Corey.
Oh, I was just going to say.

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00:17:12,880 --> 00:17:16,599
And yet the founders were
envisioning that people could,

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00:17:17,440 --> 00:17:20,560
you know, ride around in
warships with and have cannons

262
00:17:20,839 --> 00:17:24,359
and explosives and anything like
that.

263
00:17:24,560 --> 00:17:27,400
That was just fine.
But heaven forbid you have, you

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00:17:27,400 --> 00:17:33,960
know, 20 rounds with you.
It's really a wild idea that the

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00:17:33,960 --> 00:17:39,360
founders would not be supporting
military weapons because it was

266
00:17:39,400 --> 00:17:44,200
absolutely about military
weapons in every way possible.

267
00:17:44,200 --> 00:17:47,520
It Yeah, it was about the
citizens being able to, you

268
00:17:47,520 --> 00:17:51,880
know, go against the military
with the same weapons or

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00:17:51,880 --> 00:17:55,320
anything that they possibly
could carry and and create.

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00:17:56,680 --> 00:17:59,160
Absolutely.
Tim, you were going to say

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00:17:59,160 --> 00:18:01,840
something.
Yeah, I just was going to add

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00:18:01,840 --> 00:18:06,280
the Patriot Act to the list of
laws that were made, perhaps not

273
00:18:06,360 --> 00:18:11,200
in conjunction with
universalism, trading security

274
00:18:11,200 --> 00:18:13,480
for, or, excuse me, trading
freedom for security.

275
00:18:15,440 --> 00:18:18,760
And that's, that's exactly
where, where my mind went to

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00:18:18,800 --> 00:18:22,720
and, and look, some of that is
as I lived through it, right?

277
00:18:23,440 --> 00:18:30,760
And it, it absolutely was one of
those times where people were,

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00:18:30,760 --> 00:18:33,080
were all about lining up for
that right.

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00:18:34,400 --> 00:18:37,840
And, and look, that's when we
have to guard our freedoms the

280
00:18:37,840 --> 00:18:41,240
most and make sure that, that,
you know, universal application

281
00:18:41,240 --> 00:18:46,920
applies.
Because if you wait to get

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00:18:46,920 --> 00:18:51,040
resolved until you're scared,
you most likely you're going to

283
00:18:51,040 --> 00:18:52,880
pick wrong.
You need to have that kind of

284
00:18:52,880 --> 00:18:56,080
resolved now.
But Tim, you are 100% correct.

285
00:18:56,520 --> 00:19:00,400
And there's so many things we
have not gotten back from that.

286
00:19:01,600 --> 00:19:04,120
And gosh, I remember the early
arguments on that.

287
00:19:04,120 --> 00:19:05,720
Right.
Well, I've got nothing to hide.

288
00:19:05,720 --> 00:19:07,680
What, what, what do I need to be
worried about?

289
00:19:08,280 --> 00:19:12,080
Well, times are different now.
And, and I think many, many,

290
00:19:12,080 --> 00:19:14,400
many of us realize the folly in
that.

291
00:19:15,080 --> 00:19:16,840
Andrew, I see you got your hand
up, bro.

292
00:19:17,480 --> 00:19:23,040
Yeah, one of the when Obamacare
was passed, the Congress

293
00:19:23,040 --> 00:19:26,240
actually placed in a a provision
that completely exempted

294
00:19:26,240 --> 00:19:28,880
themselves from it.
So do you.

295
00:19:28,960 --> 00:19:32,400
They have.
The United States was required

296
00:19:32,400 --> 00:19:35,720
to submit to this, and yet the
very people who passed it were

297
00:19:35,720 --> 00:19:44,880
not. 100% that was in there.
We see a violation both on as

298
00:19:44,880 --> 00:19:48,600
was pointed out by Vanessa, I
believe where where you know,

299
00:19:48,600 --> 00:19:52,320
she said it had to apply equally
to to everybody or no she was

300
00:19:52,320 --> 00:19:56,160
timeless in nature and someone
else saying that it applies to

301
00:19:56,160 --> 00:20:02,120
everybody and in that instance,
yeah, Jacob, I Andrew, excuse

302
00:20:02,120 --> 00:20:04,680
me.
I remember that that they had

303
00:20:04,960 --> 00:20:07,040
they violated both sides of that
one.

304
00:20:07,080 --> 00:20:08,880
So that's that's pretty
interesting.

305
00:20:10,120 --> 00:20:14,520
All right, how about unchanging
and everlasting?

306
00:20:18,640 --> 00:20:22,720
That one's pretty easy now I
would ask this.

307
00:20:25,840 --> 00:20:32,360
What would be the equivalent of
that in our Constitution?

308
00:20:34,640 --> 00:20:47,970
Unchanging or everlasting?
I would probably say the oh,

309
00:20:47,970 --> 00:20:49,890
sorry.
No, go ahead, Taylor.

310
00:20:50,280 --> 00:20:53,400
I would probably say the Bill of
Rights is the closest thing that

311
00:20:53,400 --> 00:20:55,880
we would have to an unchanging
everlasting cause.

312
00:20:56,160 --> 00:21:00,720
Some of the other things were
actually intended to be amended

313
00:21:00,720 --> 00:21:05,160
as as circumstances changed if
if there was a need to do to

314
00:21:05,160 --> 00:21:07,760
make amendments.
But the first 10 amendments,

315
00:21:07,760 --> 00:21:11,160
which we know is the Bill of
Rights are some of the universal

316
00:21:11,160 --> 00:21:15,480
statements that they wanted.
Like there was people that had

317
00:21:15,480 --> 00:21:19,680
concerns that we were that we
weren't enumerating specific

318
00:21:19,680 --> 00:21:22,760
protected rights.
And so that's what the ten

319
00:21:22,760 --> 00:21:24,280
amendment, the 1st 10 amendments
are.

320
00:21:24,280 --> 00:21:27,720
Is this bill of the the people
that had these concerns about

321
00:21:27,720 --> 00:21:31,960
the Constitution not restraining
government enough and they just

322
00:21:31,960 --> 00:21:36,160
wanted to make sure that certain
lines were absolutely clear and

323
00:21:36,160 --> 00:21:39,400
would never be crossed by the
government?

324
00:21:40,800 --> 00:21:44,480
Right, 100%.
I think the other thing that can

325
00:21:44,480 --> 00:21:46,840
point to is those unalienable
rights.

326
00:21:47,680 --> 00:21:52,480
I think that is is a huge part
of of what what they're getting

327
00:21:52,480 --> 00:21:54,480
there with unchanging and
everlasting.

328
00:21:55,040 --> 00:22:01,200
If we looked at word
unalienable, we sometimes I feel

329
00:22:01,200 --> 00:22:04,080
like we've lost stuff out of the
English language that we need to

330
00:22:04,080 --> 00:22:08,560
revisit.
And if you break down the word,

331
00:22:08,560 --> 00:22:11,680
it really means you cannot lean
against them, right?

332
00:22:12,360 --> 00:22:16,600
A lean is anything that you can
put an encumbrance on, just as

333
00:22:16,600 --> 00:22:21,360
an example, if you're, you know,
in in my profession, it's common

334
00:22:21,360 --> 00:22:26,480
if you have a client that has
maybe been slow paying or hasn't

335
00:22:26,480 --> 00:22:30,280
paid at all and it's getting
close to completion of the

336
00:22:30,280 --> 00:22:32,400
project.
And so you've done all this

337
00:22:32,400 --> 00:22:35,360
work.
You've done a plat on a bare

338
00:22:35,360 --> 00:22:39,040
piece of ground, you've marked
out lots, you've built roads,

339
00:22:39,040 --> 00:22:43,160
you've got, you know, all the
utilities in and you haven't

340
00:22:43,160 --> 00:22:44,800
been paid.
You start getting kind of

341
00:22:44,800 --> 00:22:47,680
nervous, right?
Because you're like, am I going

342
00:22:47,680 --> 00:22:50,280
to get paid?
So often times what happens is,

343
00:22:50,720 --> 00:22:55,200
is that we'll put a lien on one
or two parcels.

344
00:22:55,800 --> 00:22:59,920
And what that does is that when
that goes to closing, it creates

345
00:22:59,920 --> 00:23:02,680
an encumbrance in title
transfer.

346
00:23:03,400 --> 00:23:06,560
And basically the bank says I am
not lending on this piece of

347
00:23:06,560 --> 00:23:12,160
ground until this is cleaned up
or I am not going to or the

348
00:23:12,160 --> 00:23:15,960
title company will say I am not
transferring title on the these

349
00:23:15,960 --> 00:23:20,120
lots because it's got a clouded
title.

350
00:23:20,120 --> 00:23:23,880
There's a lien against it.
OK, So to our rights, what what

351
00:23:23,880 --> 00:23:28,880
the founders are saying there is
that your rights can should not

352
00:23:28,880 --> 00:23:32,080
ever be leaned against.
They they should not be

353
00:23:32,080 --> 00:23:37,680
encumbered on any at any stage.
Andrew, I, I, I see your hands

354
00:23:37,680 --> 00:23:38,800
up.
Did you have something else?

355
00:23:39,280 --> 00:23:42,800
Oh yeah, so universal
application.

356
00:23:42,800 --> 00:23:45,560
That means I think of time as
well.

357
00:23:45,600 --> 00:23:51,520
Like 2000 years ago the natural
law was the same as it is today

358
00:23:51,520 --> 00:23:55,400
and will be the same 2000 years
from now because it's

359
00:23:55,400 --> 00:23:58,640
naturalized for majors.
God, it doesn't change and it

360
00:23:58,640 --> 00:24:05,160
can't change.
Absolutely.

361
00:24:07,920 --> 00:24:09,760
Does anyone else?
Oh, go ahead.

362
00:24:09,760 --> 00:24:11,720
What's that?
Yeah, I was just going to say,

363
00:24:11,720 --> 00:24:14,320
you know, interesting with what
Andrew's saying there, this

364
00:24:14,320 --> 00:24:17,440
unchanging and everlasting
concept, because there's now

365
00:24:17,520 --> 00:24:21,720
some very common philosophies
and world views like, you know,

366
00:24:21,720 --> 00:24:25,680
posthumanism, humanism,
essentially stuff springing out

367
00:24:25,680 --> 00:24:29,360
of Darwinism that denies that
unchanging and everlasting

368
00:24:29,360 --> 00:24:35,000
exist.
They deny the very premise that

369
00:24:35,000 --> 00:24:38,680
that can exist, and therefore
they subvert.

370
00:24:39,880 --> 00:24:42,920
It becomes a philosophy for
subverting laws because, well,

371
00:24:42,960 --> 00:24:46,080
why can't humans change?
Why can't we evolve?

372
00:24:46,080 --> 00:24:50,000
Why can't we become something
entirely different, which would

373
00:24:50,000 --> 00:24:53,240
require a change in laws to keep
up with?

374
00:24:55,040 --> 00:24:57,720
And I, I think it's very
interesting to see how many of

375
00:24:57,720 --> 00:25:03,560
the elites today and, and those
in power, WE the WEF things like

376
00:25:03,560 --> 00:25:06,560
this Bilderberg group, these
people are adamant

377
00:25:06,560 --> 00:25:13,960
posthumanists.
Absolutely.

378
00:25:13,960 --> 00:25:16,240
Great point.
Anybody else?

379
00:25:20,240 --> 00:25:28,320
OK, the next characteristic is a
summons to duty by its commands

380
00:25:29,000 --> 00:25:33,800
that I found very interesting,
as illuminated by by Cicero.

381
00:25:34,400 --> 00:25:37,400
What do you think it means that
it summons to duty by its

382
00:25:37,400 --> 00:25:51,510
commands?
OK, I'll, I'll open this up.

383
00:25:53,640 --> 00:25:57,160
This is my thoughts on it and
I'm willing to, to hear other,

384
00:25:57,360 --> 00:26:01,360
others and, and look, I could be
wrong in this, but I, I really

385
00:26:01,360 --> 00:26:05,600
think that maybe what it's
talking about here is this idea

386
00:26:06,480 --> 00:26:12,360
that with every right, there is
a corresponding responsibility.

387
00:26:13,880 --> 00:26:17,920
It may not be enumerated, but I
believe there is a

388
00:26:17,920 --> 00:26:23,280
responsibility for us if we're
going to be responsible citizens

389
00:26:23,720 --> 00:26:26,680
within a Republic.
So let's take the First

390
00:26:26,680 --> 00:26:31,440
Amendment right.
We want the freedom of speech.

391
00:26:31,680 --> 00:26:35,600
We need the freedom of speech
that is granted to us by God.

392
00:26:36,320 --> 00:26:40,680
I think if you are a good
steward of that right, your

393
00:26:40,680 --> 00:26:47,200
responsibility is to become as
well versed in the subject in

394
00:26:47,200 --> 00:26:49,080
which you are speaking as
possible.

395
00:26:49,080 --> 00:26:53,920
Now, none of us have time to
become experts in all things and

396
00:26:53,920 --> 00:26:59,960
certainly there is nothing wrong
with expressing a, an opinion on

397
00:26:59,960 --> 00:27:04,480
those things, but it should be
well thought out, well reasoned.

398
00:27:06,800 --> 00:27:11,920
Look, I am extremely patriotic,
but sometimes it frustrates me

399
00:27:11,920 --> 00:27:16,440
as kind of the lowest common
denominator of patriotism, which

400
00:27:16,960 --> 00:27:21,480
which, you know, I, I often
think of, you know, guys running

401
00:27:21,480 --> 00:27:23,520
around with mullets screaming
America.

402
00:27:24,720 --> 00:27:27,720
Not that I don't find it a
little funny at times, but I do

403
00:27:27,720 --> 00:27:30,640
believe that there is a better
patriotism that can be

404
00:27:31,120 --> 00:27:35,240
exemplified by being able to
talk reasonably and rationally

405
00:27:35,240 --> 00:27:37,960
about these things.
Does anyone have anything else

406
00:27:37,960 --> 00:27:40,840
they'd like to add add to that
about the summons to duty or

407
00:27:40,840 --> 00:27:44,400
have even a different idea?
I'm not saying mine is the only

408
00:27:44,400 --> 00:27:52,240
one, Tim.
Yeah, Dave, you took the words

409
00:27:52,240 --> 00:27:54,840
right out of my mouth about
rights having responsibilities.

410
00:27:54,840 --> 00:27:56,360
I was going to say almost the
same thing.

411
00:27:56,360 --> 00:27:58,440
I just couldn't figure out how
to raise my hand quick enough.

412
00:27:59,000 --> 00:28:03,360
But I'm going to add to that,
that I also believe that on top

413
00:28:03,360 --> 00:28:07,520
of us needing to be responsible
to be educated on the topic

414
00:28:07,520 --> 00:28:10,080
we're Speaking of, I think that
freedom of speech comes with it

415
00:28:10,720 --> 00:28:16,800
a duty to speak morally, to
keep, to keep a moral value to

416
00:28:16,800 --> 00:28:20,920
what it is that we're saying,
even if it's not technically

417
00:28:20,920 --> 00:28:23,440
educated, but to keep, but to
keep morals in our

418
00:28:23,440 --> 00:28:25,160
communication.
Because if we lose that, we're

419
00:28:25,160 --> 00:28:26,840
not living up to our
responsibility.

420
00:28:27,920 --> 00:28:32,320
And can you describe what you
mean by by by morality in our

421
00:28:32,320 --> 00:28:34,520
speech?
Yeah, and we get into that a

422
00:28:34,520 --> 00:28:36,280
little bit a little bit later
on.

423
00:28:36,280 --> 00:28:41,360
But the idea that several of the
founding fathers spoke about

424
00:28:41,360 --> 00:28:45,520
that this nation was set up for
a moral and righteous people and

425
00:28:45,520 --> 00:28:48,680
that the Constitution wasn't
adequate for for anybody else.

426
00:28:50,720 --> 00:28:54,320
The idea that, you know, just
because we have the right to say

427
00:28:54,320 --> 00:28:57,280
something or just because the
law doesn't ban us from saying

428
00:28:57,280 --> 00:29:00,040
something, that that means it's
OK to say, you know, anything

429
00:29:00,040 --> 00:29:04,520
that springs into our minds.
If people do that too much, it's

430
00:29:04,520 --> 00:29:07,640
going to cause a knee jerk
reaction where where all the

431
00:29:07,640 --> 00:29:10,400
sudden the government will have,
will will come down on your

432
00:29:10,400 --> 00:29:13,280
right of free speech because of
how you're abusing the right.

433
00:29:14,920 --> 00:29:19,280
100% I, I, I tend to look at
this a lot with AI, right?

434
00:29:19,640 --> 00:29:23,680
Just because we can do it
doesn't necessarily mean we

435
00:29:23,680 --> 00:29:27,280
should do it.
And, and I, I, I think this is

436
00:29:27,280 --> 00:29:29,400
true in science.
I think it's probably true with

437
00:29:29,400 --> 00:29:30,880
our rights and our
responsibilities.

438
00:29:31,320 --> 00:29:33,960
Justin, I see your hand up and
then we'll go to Taylor.

439
00:29:35,120 --> 00:29:39,920
Yeah, so in the Bible, we have
King David who gets it'll does

440
00:29:39,920 --> 00:29:43,440
some terrible things, right?
And the prophet Nathan goes to

441
00:29:43,440 --> 00:29:46,640
him and he's and the Nathan's
like, hey, I know what you did.

442
00:29:46,640 --> 00:29:49,440
You did this, this and this.
And King David gets really

443
00:29:49,440 --> 00:29:51,400
defensive.
And that actually doesn't

444
00:29:51,400 --> 00:29:54,240
happen, right.
Instead, Nathan gives a parable

445
00:29:54,800 --> 00:29:58,760
and he's like, let me tell you a
story about this poor guy who

446
00:29:59,120 --> 00:30:01,160
had all this terrible stuff
happen to him.

447
00:30:01,880 --> 00:30:06,640
And in the telling of the story,
David was moved to want to seek

448
00:30:06,640 --> 00:30:11,280
justice for that situation.
And then Nathan kind of turns it

449
00:30:11,280 --> 00:30:14,720
on his head and says, you're the
villain in this story.

450
00:30:15,560 --> 00:30:18,280
And I think the summons to do
you by its command.

451
00:30:18,440 --> 00:30:21,240
That's kind of what that is.
Thou shalt not kill.

452
00:30:21,480 --> 00:30:24,920
But what happens if somebody's
running around killing if the in

453
00:30:24,920 --> 00:30:28,520
the violation of this law,
there's a natural desire that we

454
00:30:28,520 --> 00:30:32,040
have as human beings to want to
go in there and protect it, to

455
00:30:32,040 --> 00:30:36,840
preserve what it is that this
laws is intended to be

456
00:30:37,120 --> 00:30:40,120
preserving, right?
Whether it be life or whether it

457
00:30:40,120 --> 00:30:44,040
be property.
And so the summoning to duty by

458
00:30:44,040 --> 00:30:47,840
its command is that I think
when, if you take your personal

459
00:30:47,880 --> 00:30:52,080
interest out of the situation,
there's a universal desire, like

460
00:30:52,080 --> 00:30:55,400
nobody's watching Disney movies
being like, man, I sure hope

461
00:30:55,400 --> 00:30:58,640
Cruella Deville wins and
slaughters all those puppies,

462
00:30:58,640 --> 00:31:01,720
right?
That's just kind of there's a

463
00:31:01,720 --> 00:31:05,120
natural inclination to want to
root for the good guys.

464
00:31:05,120 --> 00:31:09,000
And no matter how debase
somebody is, that's generally, I

465
00:31:09,000 --> 00:31:11,760
mean, I'm not, I don't, I'm not
aware of any cases where that's

466
00:31:11,760 --> 00:31:16,240
not true, where there's not an
inherent instinctual desire for

467
00:31:16,240 --> 00:31:18,720
right.
And we and we know it when we

468
00:31:18,720 --> 00:31:21,080
see it, especially in a Disney
film, right?

469
00:31:22,360 --> 00:31:25,240
Absolutely, Taylor.
I saw you had your hand up.

470
00:31:25,600 --> 00:31:29,800
Yeah.
So I think that sometimes when

471
00:31:29,800 --> 00:31:34,000
we study philosophy, we tend to
kind of get intellectual, right.

472
00:31:34,520 --> 00:31:40,480
And I think that the Cicero or
Kickero is a very practical

473
00:31:40,480 --> 00:31:43,320
philosopher.
You know, sometimes things are

474
00:31:43,320 --> 00:31:47,000
kind of abstract, but he's
always looking to see how it

475
00:31:47,000 --> 00:31:50,040
applies in three dimensions, you
know, in the real world.

476
00:31:50,480 --> 00:31:54,760
And I think that that's what
he's some he's summing up it by

477
00:31:54,760 --> 00:31:58,160
that point that he articulates
the summons to duty by its

478
00:31:58,160 --> 00:32:00,720
command.
And going back to what Tim was

479
00:32:00,720 --> 00:32:06,360
sharing, Speaking of like
intellectualism is not a bad

480
00:32:06,360 --> 00:32:11,120
thing inherently, but it's
incomplete without action,

481
00:32:11,200 --> 00:32:14,120
right?
You know, faith, you have to be

482
00:32:14,120 --> 00:32:16,280
aware of something to be able to
exercise faith.

483
00:32:16,280 --> 00:32:19,240
But if you don't do anything
about it, what good is it?

484
00:32:19,360 --> 00:32:20,840
It's worth a hill of beans,
right?

485
00:32:21,560 --> 00:32:25,120
But Isaac Asimov had a quote
that I think Tim will

486
00:32:25,120 --> 00:32:29,280
particularly enjoy.
This is Isaac Asimov was a

487
00:32:29,280 --> 00:32:33,360
fictional writer of one of the
early sci-fi writers, and he

488
00:32:33,360 --> 00:32:36,040
said this.
And this was 100 years ago.

489
00:32:36,680 --> 00:32:39,720
There is a cult of ignorance in
the United States and there

490
00:32:39,720 --> 00:32:41,600
always has been.
The strain of anti

491
00:32:41,600 --> 00:32:44,280
intellectualism has been a
constant thread winding its way

492
00:32:44,280 --> 00:32:47,080
through our political and
cultural life, nurtured by the

493
00:32:47,080 --> 00:32:50,600
false notion that democracy
means that my ignorance is just

494
00:32:50,600 --> 00:32:55,160
as good as your knowledge.
And with, with the advent of

495
00:32:55,160 --> 00:33:00,560
woke ISM and, and the, the, the
extreme reaction by the right,

496
00:33:00,560 --> 00:33:02,960
it's, it is so anti
intellectual.

497
00:33:03,080 --> 00:33:06,280
It is a, it is a cult of
ignorance on both sides.

498
00:33:07,200 --> 00:33:13,000
And I think that true patriots,
you know, true Americans need to

499
00:33:14,360 --> 00:33:20,200
combat against the human
inclination to just, you know,

500
00:33:21,480 --> 00:33:23,600
because like Justin was saying,
everybody has kind of an

501
00:33:23,600 --> 00:33:25,120
inherent sense of right and
wrong.

502
00:33:25,520 --> 00:33:28,800
Well, we should.
We have the light of Christ, you

503
00:33:28,800 --> 00:33:33,840
know, from the restoration lens
and, and we have the ability to

504
00:33:33,840 --> 00:33:38,920
discern truth from error.
But if we get super emotionally

505
00:33:38,920 --> 00:33:44,480
charged, that vision clouds very
quickly and suddenly we just

506
00:33:44,480 --> 00:33:47,960
become warring factions.
And that's something that the

507
00:33:47,960 --> 00:33:53,360
founders were very acutely aware
of and tried to prevent and and

508
00:33:53,360 --> 00:33:55,480
control and manage as much as
possible.

509
00:33:56,920 --> 00:33:59,280
Yeah, absolutely, 100% good
stuff.

510
00:34:00,360 --> 00:34:02,920
Anybody else have anything
they'd like to add to that?

511
00:34:06,240 --> 00:34:09,520
Oh, I have one other quote from
Plato to share on that similar

512
00:34:09,520 --> 00:34:12,560
subject.
He says wise, wise men speak

513
00:34:12,560 --> 00:34:16,280
because they have something to
say, fools because they have to

514
00:34:16,280 --> 00:34:20,480
say something.
There's there's truth to that

515
00:34:20,480 --> 00:34:26,600
too.
Yes, 100% Kim Oh, that's just

516
00:34:26,600 --> 00:34:29,159
clapping, all right.
Yeah, that wasn't a hand raised.

517
00:34:29,159 --> 00:34:31,360
I was just celebrating.
All right.

518
00:34:31,360 --> 00:34:35,520
No, that's good stuff.
All right, we'll go ahead.

519
00:34:35,520 --> 00:34:39,040
And, and there there's one other
place I want to take this

520
00:34:39,040 --> 00:34:41,440
summons to the duty by its
command.

521
00:34:43,760 --> 00:34:49,120
And that is something that is
never popular to say, but

522
00:34:49,120 --> 00:34:52,679
nonetheless, it is truth.
And I can't remember if it was

523
00:34:52,679 --> 00:34:55,520
Madison or Adams, may even have
been Franklin.

524
00:34:55,520 --> 00:34:57,440
I can't remember off the top of
my head.

525
00:34:58,600 --> 00:35:02,240
But one of them had said
something to the effect of the

526
00:35:02,240 --> 00:35:06,800
most important speech you need
to protect is the one that you

527
00:35:06,800 --> 00:35:12,840
disagree with.
And that is because right now,

528
00:35:12,840 --> 00:35:17,640
the shoe might be on your, you
know, the, the, the political

529
00:35:17,640 --> 00:35:23,360
winds might be in your favor.
But in a country where you can

530
00:35:23,360 --> 00:35:29,800
essentially have a bloodless
coup every 4-2 to four years and

531
00:35:29,800 --> 00:35:34,720
power can change drastically,
it's important to remember that

532
00:35:35,360 --> 00:35:39,320
that if you, if we're in the the
mode of silencing someone's

533
00:35:39,320 --> 00:35:44,000
speech, we could have that same
club used on us next.

534
00:35:45,040 --> 00:35:49,880
And so it's, it's got to have,
it's got to cut both ways kind

535
00:35:49,880 --> 00:35:52,760
of, right.
If we want our speech protected,

536
00:35:52,760 --> 00:35:55,680
then we might have to even
protect the speech of those that

537
00:35:55,680 --> 00:35:58,720
we disagree with within reason,
right?

538
00:35:59,320 --> 00:36:02,560
Obviously, if someone's making
death threats, that's something

539
00:36:02,560 --> 00:36:06,600
different.
Or you know, as the the famous

540
00:36:06,600 --> 00:36:09,520
Supreme Court case was, someone
stands up in a theater and he

541
00:36:09,520 --> 00:36:12,520
else fire, then you're
encroaching on somebody else's.

542
00:36:13,280 --> 00:36:18,480
But by and large, I think if
it's purely discourse and well

543
00:36:18,480 --> 00:36:22,880
defined discourse without
threat, I think we have to be

544
00:36:22,880 --> 00:36:26,920
willing to stand by those who we
even disagree with so that they

545
00:36:26,920 --> 00:36:31,000
can allow their opinions.
The other thing I'll say on that

546
00:36:31,000 --> 00:36:35,680
is I think it's healthy when a
population can divulge that sort

547
00:36:35,840 --> 00:36:38,560
of thing through, through honest
dialogue.

548
00:36:40,080 --> 00:36:44,200
I remember I was, I was having a
debate with somebody who said,

549
00:36:44,880 --> 00:36:47,200
well, that guy's a Nazi.
Why should he be allowed to

550
00:36:47,200 --> 00:36:49,120
speak?
And I'm like, and I said, well,

551
00:36:49,120 --> 00:36:51,880
if that guy's a Nazi, I want to
know he's a Nazi.

552
00:36:53,120 --> 00:36:57,360
Let's not, let's not let him sit
in the shadows too long.

553
00:36:58,120 --> 00:37:04,600
And so only good things can come
if if we are willing to stand

554
00:37:04,600 --> 00:37:08,080
for, for, for someone else's
right to speech even when we

555
00:37:08,080 --> 00:37:11,440
disagree with it.
So, all right.

556
00:37:11,440 --> 00:37:13,640
Anyone else here?
Oh, Taylor, go ahead.

557
00:37:15,080 --> 00:37:18,600
Yeah, so you bring up a a really
interesting point here.

558
00:37:19,000 --> 00:37:23,760
The, the founders were, you
know, they, they acknowledged

559
00:37:23,760 --> 00:37:26,400
the Creator, they acknowledged
divine Providence, they

560
00:37:26,400 --> 00:37:33,040
acknowledged God, but nowhere
did they set up, you know,

561
00:37:33,040 --> 00:37:35,960
there's this modern rise of
Christian nationalism on the

562
00:37:35,960 --> 00:37:38,240
right.
And there's a big push for in,

563
00:37:38,240 --> 00:37:42,960
in in various circles, some of
whom I, the people that used to

564
00:37:42,960 --> 00:37:47,520
be very constitutionalist types
of people, you know, that I

565
00:37:47,520 --> 00:37:50,800
thought would be interested in
liberty and justice, are just

566
00:37:50,800 --> 00:37:53,800
interested in.
And, and I get it because the,

567
00:37:53,920 --> 00:37:58,600
the woke left has pushed so many
ungodly laws into society, into

568
00:37:58,600 --> 00:38:01,280
our culture.
And so it's kind of like this,

569
00:38:01,480 --> 00:38:03,200
but it's an extreme
overreaction.

570
00:38:03,200 --> 00:38:07,040
And what the founders did is
they wanted to protect the right

571
00:38:07,040 --> 00:38:12,040
to believe freely and to respect
conscience, because that is

572
00:38:12,040 --> 00:38:13,800
between an individual and his
God.

573
00:38:14,440 --> 00:38:18,520
And, and so even though they
didn't set up a Christian

574
00:38:18,520 --> 00:38:23,280
nationalist type of government,
they set up the a far more

575
00:38:23,280 --> 00:38:26,280
Christian form of government,
which because God doesn't force

576
00:38:26,280 --> 00:38:30,080
anybody to believe in him or to
believe in Christ or to, you

577
00:38:30,080 --> 00:38:33,240
know, do any, you know, And so
like in, in the city of Zion,

578
00:38:33,240 --> 00:38:38,120
which we hope to one day be
involved in building up, it will

579
00:38:38,120 --> 00:38:42,720
have freedom of conscience and
the laws will be of, of God.

580
00:38:42,720 --> 00:38:46,040
You know, we weren't, we, we're
going to be very vigilant to

581
00:38:46,040 --> 00:38:51,280
protect against ungodly laws
creeping in and corrupting the

582
00:38:51,280 --> 00:38:53,800
society and the, you know, the,
the legal structure.

583
00:38:54,200 --> 00:38:58,280
But it's not going to be a, a
force, coercive type of

584
00:38:58,280 --> 00:39:02,920
situation where you have to
believe in, in a specific, you

585
00:39:02,920 --> 00:39:07,040
know, theology or you're not
you're or you're, you know,

586
00:39:07,200 --> 00:39:09,680
killed or, or driven out of the
society.

587
00:39:10,000 --> 00:39:13,120
I think we need to understand
that the founders set up the

588
00:39:13,120 --> 00:39:15,760
most Christian form of
government ever, even though

589
00:39:16,120 --> 00:39:21,360
Christ is not ever mentioned in
the founding documents directly

590
00:39:21,360 --> 00:39:24,400
by name.
And you know, but but it's these

591
00:39:24,400 --> 00:39:29,160
principles of freedom of its
agency, it's allowing freedom.

592
00:39:29,560 --> 00:39:32,240
And that is the most godly and
Christian form of government

593
00:39:32,240 --> 00:39:34,880
that exists.
So, so far, you know, hopefully

594
00:39:34,880 --> 00:39:38,960
Zion can even build on that.
Absolutely good stuff.

595
00:39:40,600 --> 00:39:46,360
OK, Anybody else?
All right, we'll move on to this

596
00:39:46,360 --> 00:39:48,480
last point here and then we'll
change slides.

597
00:39:50,640 --> 00:39:54,920
It says we don't have One of the
other characteristics is that we

598
00:39:54,920 --> 00:39:59,120
don't have to look outside of
ourselves for explanation.

599
00:40:00,640 --> 00:40:07,480
What does that mean?
I'll take a stab here.

600
00:40:07,880 --> 00:40:13,920
So when I went to college the
last time when I tore my ACL.

601
00:40:15,080 --> 00:40:18,840
And the boss just wanted to Get
Me Out of his hair because I was

602
00:40:18,840 --> 00:40:22,640
used to doing field work and
office work and all I had was

603
00:40:22,640 --> 00:40:24,480
office work and I was burning
through it.

604
00:40:25,160 --> 00:40:27,920
So he just basically goes, you
know what, just go to school.

605
00:40:27,920 --> 00:40:30,520
I'll pay you to go to school,
take whatever class you want.

606
00:40:30,520 --> 00:40:34,240
Just leave me alone so I can get
some work done.

607
00:40:35,160 --> 00:40:40,720
And so I just, I took a
hodgepodge of courses on history

608
00:40:40,720 --> 00:40:48,080
and political science and US
constitutional law and just kind

609
00:40:48,080 --> 00:40:51,160
of really went after anything
that looked interesting to me.

610
00:40:52,840 --> 00:40:57,360
And an interesting thing I
noticed was, is that in many of

611
00:40:57,360 --> 00:41:00,600
these courses, it dealt with the
Constitution specifically.

612
00:41:02,080 --> 00:41:06,400
We didn't spend much time
actually analyzing the text of

613
00:41:06,400 --> 00:41:09,200
the, the, the founding documents
themselves.

614
00:41:09,960 --> 00:41:15,560
Instead, we focused on what
quote the the the scholars had

615
00:41:15,560 --> 00:41:18,360
to say about the founding
documents.

616
00:41:19,560 --> 00:41:24,960
And what surprised me was is
that the constitution, which if

617
00:41:24,960 --> 00:41:27,840
you were to chop it up really
small, I think we've all seen

618
00:41:27,840 --> 00:41:30,080
the pocket size constitutions,
right?

619
00:41:30,960 --> 00:41:37,200
Tops 10 pages without any
commentary, 10 pages.

620
00:41:37,200 --> 00:41:43,000
Easy.
But if we look at where we're at

621
00:41:43,000 --> 00:41:48,360
today as a society in relation
to what the original intent was

622
00:41:48,880 --> 00:41:55,440
as outlined by the founders, it
gets pretty apparent that

623
00:41:55,440 --> 00:42:00,800
scholars have had to do some
mental gymnastics to get us to a

624
00:42:00,800 --> 00:42:05,160
point to where they can say,
well, we think the Constitution

625
00:42:05,160 --> 00:42:07,960
really says this.
Now.

626
00:42:07,960 --> 00:42:12,840
The Constitution was written in
such a way that in its time, the

627
00:42:12,840 --> 00:42:16,760
plowboy could understand it, the
farmer could understand it, the

628
00:42:16,760 --> 00:42:19,400
merchant could understand it.
You didn't have to be an

629
00:42:19,400 --> 00:42:22,280
attorney, a clergyman or any of
those other things.

630
00:42:24,000 --> 00:42:30,200
It, it was self apparent, right?
Or as, as as the founders would

631
00:42:30,200 --> 00:42:35,440
say, they were self-evident.
They didn't need could be

632
00:42:35,440 --> 00:42:37,320
explained.
It was natural.

633
00:42:37,320 --> 00:42:40,160
You could look at it and say,
oh, there it is.

634
00:42:40,800 --> 00:42:42,440
Does anyone have anything they
want to add?

635
00:42:49,390 --> 00:42:58,870
OK, we'll go ahead and move on.
Natural law can work because of

636
00:42:58,990 --> 00:43:03,310
our shared some of our shared
characteristics with the

637
00:43:03,310 --> 00:43:06,430
creator.
And does anyone have their book

638
00:43:06,830 --> 00:43:22,960
handy that they could read?
M it's it's page 41 under the

639
00:43:23,240 --> 00:43:28,600
the divine gift of reason and it
is everything that's quoted

640
00:43:28,600 --> 00:43:31,400
there which starts out the
animal which we call man.

641
00:43:32,360 --> 00:43:36,440
OK, the animal which we call
man, endowed with foresight and

642
00:43:36,440 --> 00:43:40,720
quick intelligence, complex,
keen, possessing memory, full of

643
00:43:40,720 --> 00:43:43,640
reason and prudence, has been
given a certain distinguished

644
00:43:43,640 --> 00:43:45,640
status by the Supreme God who
created him.

645
00:43:46,200 --> 00:43:48,600
For He is the only one among so
many different kinds and

646
00:43:48,600 --> 00:43:52,000
varieties of living beings who
has a share in reason and

647
00:43:52,000 --> 00:43:54,120
thought, while all the rest are
deprived of it.

648
00:43:54,640 --> 00:43:58,200
But what is more divine, I will
not say in man only, but in all

649
00:43:58,200 --> 00:44:01,880
heaven and earth, than reason.
And reason, when it is full

650
00:44:01,880 --> 00:44:04,280
grown and perfected, is rightly
called wisdom.

651
00:44:05,080 --> 00:44:07,560
Therefore, since there is
nothing better than reason, and

652
00:44:07,560 --> 00:44:11,360
since it exists both in man and
God, the first common possession

653
00:44:11,360 --> 00:44:15,000
of man and God is reason.
But those who have reason in

654
00:44:15,000 --> 00:44:17,480
common must also have right
reason in common.

655
00:44:18,080 --> 00:44:21,400
And since right reasoning is
law, we must believe that men

656
00:44:21,400 --> 00:44:24,120
have law also in common with the
gods.

657
00:44:24,760 --> 00:44:28,280
Further, those who share law
must also share justice, and

658
00:44:28,280 --> 00:44:31,280
those who share these are to be
regarded as members of the same

659
00:44:31,280 --> 00:44:34,560
Commonwealth, if indeed they
obey the same authorities and

660
00:44:34,560 --> 00:44:36,520
powers.
This is true in a far greater

661
00:44:36,520 --> 00:44:40,000
degree, but as a matter of fact,
they do obey this celestial,

662
00:44:40,160 --> 00:44:44,440
this celestial system, the
divine mind, and the God of

663
00:44:44,440 --> 00:44:47,720
transcendent power.
Hence we must now conceive of

664
00:44:47,720 --> 00:44:51,240
this whole universe is 1
Commonwealth, of which both gods

665
00:44:51,240 --> 00:44:57,920
and men are members.
Hey, so Tim, what's that saying?

666
00:45:03,840 --> 00:45:07,200
That we have a spark of the
divine within us to sum it up in

667
00:45:07,200 --> 00:45:09,800
a single sentence.
Absolutely.

668
00:45:10,200 --> 00:45:14,440
And, and what are what are some
of those shared qualities that

669
00:45:14,440 --> 00:45:17,960
we share with, with the supreme
Creator, as Cicero put it,

670
00:45:19,560 --> 00:45:20,440
anybody?
What?

671
00:45:21,920 --> 00:45:23,760
Since I'm unmuted, I'll just go
ahead and say what was on my

672
00:45:23,760 --> 00:45:25,240
mind real quick.
It's really short.

673
00:45:25,240 --> 00:45:28,280
It's just that scripture tells
us that we are born with the

674
00:45:28,280 --> 00:45:31,960
ability to distinguish good from
evil, and that that is really

675
00:45:32,200 --> 00:45:35,040
what this boils down to, is that
that's it's within us to see

676
00:45:35,040 --> 00:45:41,120
right from wrong.
Absolutely 100% Anybody else?

677
00:45:42,040 --> 00:45:45,160
You know, I, I think this is
Cicero saying he believes in the

678
00:45:45,160 --> 00:45:48,000
Mormon God.
Kind of, huh.

679
00:45:48,360 --> 00:45:51,880
Because I mean, like, it's a
it's, it's nuts, right?

680
00:45:52,280 --> 00:45:55,800
Yeah, the suggestion is, is that
God is bound by the same laws

681
00:45:55,800 --> 00:45:58,640
that we are.
And that's a that's a very

682
00:45:59,360 --> 00:46:03,560
heretical view of God and and
standard Christianity where God

683
00:46:03,560 --> 00:46:08,320
is above all law.
And here Cicero's like by by

684
00:46:08,320 --> 00:46:12,720
obvious reason, our creator as
his children, you've inherited

685
00:46:12,720 --> 00:46:16,200
this this ability to reason and
we understanding of law.

686
00:46:16,200 --> 00:46:21,120
Therefore, clearly our Creator
or God is also bound by these

687
00:46:21,120 --> 00:46:31,840
laws and and and possesses this
quality of reason. 100% I, I was

688
00:46:31,840 --> 00:46:37,880
astounded when I, when I read
that out of there because I was

689
00:46:37,880 --> 00:46:43,600
like you, Justin, like I can't,
again, I can't prove it, but

690
00:46:43,600 --> 00:46:48,320
there's times that I think
Cicero writes the gods just so

691
00:46:48,320 --> 00:46:52,240
that the Hellenistic mind won't
think he's heretical at some

692
00:46:52,240 --> 00:46:56,520
level and espousing some form
of, of monotheism.

693
00:46:57,800 --> 00:47:04,440
But this idea that, that we can
reason that we can, can seek

694
00:47:04,440 --> 00:47:11,400
for, for the better is something
that's very unique to this type

695
00:47:11,400 --> 00:47:13,840
of natural law that Cicero was
talking about.

696
00:47:14,200 --> 00:47:17,040
And it's unique to Mormonism as
well, I would say, right.

697
00:47:17,280 --> 00:47:20,120
Certainly there's other
religions that believe in free

698
00:47:20,120 --> 00:47:26,840
will, however, not as much
emphasis is put on it as in,

699
00:47:26,840 --> 00:47:30,840
say, the restored gospel.
And so there's there's a lot

700
00:47:30,840 --> 00:47:32,920
there to be unpacked and
digested.

701
00:47:34,000 --> 00:47:37,360
But the reason that this law can
work is because we share a

702
00:47:37,360 --> 00:47:42,280
common spark with the creator.
And that common spark is reason

703
00:47:42,280 --> 00:47:46,800
and intellect.
And these principles are are

704
00:47:46,800 --> 00:47:50,320
simple and self-evident enough
that I think almost all of us

705
00:47:50,320 --> 00:47:53,920
can can pick it up here.
So anybody else have anything

706
00:47:53,920 --> 00:47:56,720
they want to add to that before
we move on and change slides?

707
00:48:02,500 --> 00:48:10,860
OK, Perfect natural law can work
well with God's revealed truth.

708
00:48:11,500 --> 00:48:14,700
In his treatise on justice,
Cicero says the following.

709
00:48:15,580 --> 00:48:20,500
For these virtues originate in
our natural inclination to love

710
00:48:20,500 --> 00:48:25,520
our fellow man, and this is the
foundation of justice.

711
00:48:25,760 --> 00:48:30,240
OK, The book pointed this out,
and I found it really

712
00:48:30,240 --> 00:48:31,920
interesting.
OK.

713
00:48:32,320 --> 00:48:36,520
So again, I think we're making a
pretty good case here that

714
00:48:36,520 --> 00:48:41,640
Cicero probably has some
monotheistic leanings, right?

715
00:48:42,040 --> 00:48:44,920
Again, not saying he's Jewish,
not obviously, he's not

716
00:48:44,920 --> 00:48:46,840
Christian.
Christ hasn't come yet.

717
00:48:47,440 --> 00:48:50,240
But there's a recognition here
that we're seeing from him.

718
00:48:50,760 --> 00:48:53,960
And so I don't think it's a far
stretch to say the word nature,

719
00:48:53,960 --> 00:48:58,000
nature or natural can also mean
from God.

720
00:48:58,640 --> 00:49:05,920
And with that, if if we look at
Matthew 2236 through 38, can I

721
00:49:05,920 --> 00:49:07,440
get someone to read that?
Andrew?

722
00:49:07,440 --> 00:49:09,480
Would you be willing to pull
that up real quick and read

723
00:49:09,480 --> 00:49:15,160
that?
Andrew still with us?

724
00:49:16,520 --> 00:49:20,800
Oh, he may have logged off.
OK, you know what I'll read

725
00:49:20,800 --> 00:49:23,320
that.
Let me pull that back up here

726
00:49:23,320 --> 00:49:31,960
real quick.
So starting in Matthew 22, verse

727
00:49:31,960 --> 00:49:37,560
36 and here the the the lawyers
ask in Jesus master, which is

728
00:49:37,560 --> 00:49:40,760
the great command, great
commandment in the law.

729
00:49:41,200 --> 00:49:44,640
And Jesus said unto him, thou
shall love the Lord thy God with

730
00:49:44,640 --> 00:49:47,640
all thy heart, and with all thy
soul, and with all thy mind.

731
00:49:47,960 --> 00:49:53,960
This is the first great command.
OK, So I think when, when Cicero

732
00:49:53,960 --> 00:49:59,360
says, for these futures virtues
originate in our natural

733
00:49:59,360 --> 00:50:03,080
inclination, what I think he's
saying is this is kind of that

734
00:50:03,080 --> 00:50:05,040
reason.
Again, this is kind of a loving

735
00:50:05,040 --> 00:50:09,280
God because we, we get these
things from him and they, they

736
00:50:09,280 --> 00:50:13,880
are a part of us.
And then likewise he goes on to

737
00:50:13,880 --> 00:50:17,440
say inclination to love our
fellow man.

738
00:50:17,440 --> 00:50:19,400
And this is the foundation of
justice.

739
00:50:19,800 --> 00:50:24,440
And then if we read in 39, Jesus
says, and the second is like

740
00:50:24,440 --> 00:50:28,360
unto it, thou shalt love thy
neighbor as thyself.

741
00:50:29,560 --> 00:50:34,800
So let me ask this question.
Why is love of our fellow man

742
00:50:35,760 --> 00:50:39,600
the foundation of justice?
Is that a true principle

743
00:50:40,440 --> 00:50:43,760
illuminated by Cicero?
And if it is, why

744
00:50:57,810 --> 00:51:02,770
him?
It's because, as we've kind of

745
00:51:03,490 --> 00:51:06,930
stated at the beginning of this
meeting tonight, is that justice

746
00:51:06,930 --> 00:51:10,370
has to be blind and justice has
to be universal, and that if

747
00:51:10,370 --> 00:51:13,130
there isn't love amongst common
men, well, then it will

748
00:51:13,130 --> 00:51:17,770
inevitably lead to rules for me
but not for thee or vice versa.

749
00:51:19,210 --> 00:51:23,840
Absolutely.
I think also it it stands to

750
00:51:23,840 --> 00:51:26,760
reason that if we love our
fellow men, we would want our

751
00:51:26,760 --> 00:51:34,240
fellow men dealt with justly.
We don't want anybody skating by

752
00:51:34,240 --> 00:51:37,600
when when maybe there should be
in a fixed penalty.

753
00:51:38,120 --> 00:51:41,600
Likewise, if someone's been
offended, we want to see them

754
00:51:41,600 --> 00:51:46,920
restored as much as we can.
And so I found it really

755
00:51:46,920 --> 00:51:49,800
interesting that we can say
this, this idea of natural law

756
00:51:49,800 --> 00:51:55,200
or God's law really still
centers around God's main

757
00:51:56,800 --> 00:52:03,240
operation, which is love.
And that if, if, if this law is

758
00:52:03,240 --> 00:52:08,440
applied, that the founders kind
of discovered in Cicero again

759
00:52:08,880 --> 00:52:13,920
and, and other places, love
should still be at the basis of

760
00:52:13,920 --> 00:52:17,760
this right.
And I think if we look at many

761
00:52:17,760 --> 00:52:20,240
of the writings of the early
founders, Washington had some

762
00:52:20,240 --> 00:52:25,280
great things to say about this.
We see that American, the

763
00:52:25,280 --> 00:52:30,320
American system as illuminated
in the Declaration, the, the,

764
00:52:30,320 --> 00:52:32,760
the, the, the Constitution, the
Bill of Rights.

765
00:52:33,120 --> 00:52:36,880
It really is about loving man
enough to give him the space to

766
00:52:36,880 --> 00:52:39,560
let him choose for himself what
he could be.

767
00:52:40,600 --> 00:52:42,680
Anyone else have anything they'd
like to add to that?

768
00:52:52,150 --> 00:53:00,470
All right.
Legislation and violation of

769
00:53:00,470 --> 00:53:04,710
God's natural law.
This one should fire some folks

770
00:53:04,710 --> 00:53:07,590
up.
I'm just going to read this here

771
00:53:07,590 --> 00:53:11,670
real quick and then we'll we'll
go from there.

772
00:53:12,640 --> 00:53:14,840
So it says.
But the most foolish notion of

773
00:53:14,840 --> 00:53:18,200
all, and again, this is Cicero,
the most foolish notion of all,

774
00:53:18,480 --> 00:53:22,240
is the belief that everything is
just, which is found in the

775
00:53:22,240 --> 00:53:27,440
customs or laws of nations.
What of the many deadly, the

776
00:53:27,440 --> 00:53:32,640
many pestilential statutes which
nations put in force?

777
00:53:33,040 --> 00:53:35,560
There is no more.
There are no more.

778
00:53:35,560 --> 00:53:38,040
Deserve to be called.
Excuse me, That's supposed to be

779
00:53:38,040 --> 00:53:40,720
there.
They or they, they no more

780
00:53:40,720 --> 00:53:45,040
deserve to be called laws than
the rules of robbers might pass

781
00:53:45,040 --> 00:53:48,840
in their assemblies.
For if ignorant and unskillful

782
00:53:48,840 --> 00:53:52,120
men have prescribed deadly
potions instead of healing

783
00:53:52,120 --> 00:53:57,200
drugs, these cannot be called
physicians prescriptions.

784
00:53:57,720 --> 00:54:01,920
Neither in a nation can a statue
of any sort be called the law,

785
00:54:02,480 --> 00:54:07,160
even though the nation, in spite
of being a ruinous regulation,

786
00:54:07,160 --> 00:54:12,800
has accepted it.
OK, so what's, what's the idea

787
00:54:12,800 --> 00:54:17,920
on legislation that's passed
that doesn't necessarily sync up

788
00:54:17,920 --> 00:54:31,100
with God's natural law?
I think we can actually tie this

789
00:54:31,100 --> 00:54:36,100
back to a Supreme Court ruling
from shortly after America's

790
00:54:36,100 --> 00:54:38,220
founding here.
But I'm, I'm curious to get your

791
00:54:38,220 --> 00:54:45,360
guys's guys's opinion on on how
we should view a law that is in

792
00:54:45,360 --> 00:54:47,560
violation of of God's natural
law.

793
00:54:51,760 --> 00:54:54,920
I would say I think this is a
bit of the problem here because

794
00:54:54,920 --> 00:54:58,400
I mean, he's using these extreme
examples of robbers scooting

795
00:54:58,400 --> 00:55:01,360
together in assemblies,
conspiring together to make

796
00:55:01,360 --> 00:55:05,640
their own making to, to decide
what the laws should be.

797
00:55:05,640 --> 00:55:09,480
And he's talking about people
are supposed to be healers that

798
00:55:09,480 --> 00:55:13,480
are instead doling out poisons
as these extreme examples.

799
00:55:13,480 --> 00:55:19,120
And I just think I look around
and I'm like, oh, those are the

800
00:55:19,120 --> 00:55:23,360
extreme cases, huh?
Man, what is going on?

801
00:55:24,680 --> 00:55:27,520
Yeah, yeah, in this, in this
one, I had to say Cicero might

802
00:55:27,520 --> 00:55:33,720
be just a touch prophetic as
well as discovering monotheism

803
00:55:33,720 --> 00:55:36,040
from a Hellenistic point of
view.

804
00:55:37,160 --> 00:55:38,960
This also.
Predicted 2020.

805
00:55:39,920 --> 00:55:41,320
Right.
Exactly.

806
00:55:42,880 --> 00:55:45,560
Excuse me?
Oh, there was so much here to

807
00:55:45,560 --> 00:55:50,800
unpack on this one.
First off, I think this has some

808
00:55:50,800 --> 00:55:55,320
very interesting ties to a
Supreme Court.

809
00:55:55,320 --> 00:55:59,200
And I'm blanking on the
Justice's name, but it was early

810
00:55:59,200 --> 00:56:03,480
after the American founding and
a case was brought before the

811
00:56:03,480 --> 00:56:09,080
Supreme Court and the judge
basically said, look, anything

812
00:56:09,080 --> 00:56:14,520
that violates the spirit of the
Constitution should be nullified

813
00:56:14,520 --> 00:56:17,120
immediately.
And I'm paraphrasing there.

814
00:56:18,080 --> 00:56:23,280
And I think Cicero was saying
the same thing here, right?

815
00:56:23,600 --> 00:56:28,680
Doesn't matter if you if you
accept it or not, the outcome is

816
00:56:28,680 --> 00:56:31,760
the same.
It's in violation of God's law.

817
00:56:31,760 --> 00:56:37,200
And at some point, this is bound
to failure the the law that you

818
00:56:37,200 --> 00:56:43,200
passed that goes against that.
Likewise, there's also something

819
00:56:43,200 --> 00:56:45,400
in here I found really
interesting.

820
00:56:45,760 --> 00:56:50,320
And it's this line here where it
says is just in which are found

821
00:56:50,320 --> 00:56:53,160
in the customs of the laws of
nations.

822
00:56:54,680 --> 00:57:02,280
To me, this is kind of Cicero
saying, look, not all law is

823
00:57:02,280 --> 00:57:08,800
created equal.
And likewise, not every, not

824
00:57:08,800 --> 00:57:15,680
every system of law and every
custom is going to be in keeping

825
00:57:15,680 --> 00:57:19,040
with this law and that there
might be differences in

826
00:57:19,040 --> 00:57:22,760
civilizations.
And so I found it to be a very

827
00:57:22,760 --> 00:57:26,160
interesting acknowledgement on
his part of that.

828
00:57:27,720 --> 00:57:31,040
You know, I'd say this is also,
this is essentially an attack on

829
00:57:31,040 --> 00:57:33,480
the idea of populism, right?
Yep.

830
00:57:33,720 --> 00:57:35,720
Where?
Hey, you know what, if we get

831
00:57:35,720 --> 00:57:39,800
enough people to buy in on it,
then then this is what the law

832
00:57:39,800 --> 00:57:42,200
should be.
If we get a consensus, if we get

833
00:57:42,200 --> 00:57:44,880
a majority consensus and
everybody, everybody who's in

834
00:57:44,880 --> 00:57:48,360
favor say aye, right, then that
this is what should be the

835
00:57:48,360 --> 00:57:51,880
standard for law.
And he's he's saying here.

836
00:57:51,880 --> 00:57:55,800
And the beautiful description
here with this medicine that

837
00:57:55,800 --> 00:57:58,880
kills instead of heels is you
can see it by its fruit.

838
00:58:00,960 --> 00:58:04,720
Absolutely.
And you can call, you can call

839
00:58:04,720 --> 00:58:07,280
poison medicine all day until
you're blue in the face, and we

840
00:58:07,280 --> 00:58:09,520
can all vote on it.
And celebrities can say that

841
00:58:09,520 --> 00:58:12,000
they approve and it it doesn't
matter.

842
00:58:12,000 --> 00:58:23,520
It's still poison A. 100% And
this is so important, like this

843
00:58:23,520 --> 00:58:31,080
is where liberty becomes super
important when you're trying to

844
00:58:31,080 --> 00:58:39,280
protect the rights of mankind.
I remember I was a young man

845
00:58:39,280 --> 00:58:42,360
when I read the quote.
Everything Hitler did in Germany

846
00:58:42,360 --> 00:58:46,240
was legal in that he said it was
legal.

847
00:58:46,240 --> 00:58:50,160
It was passed in some form,
whether that was through the

848
00:58:50,160 --> 00:58:53,040
Reichstag or him as the
chancellor.

849
00:58:53,880 --> 00:58:57,680
It was made legal, but it didn't
necessarily make it right.

850
00:58:57,920 --> 00:59:02,360
Vanessa, I saw your hand go up.
Yeah, I was just going to make a

851
00:59:02,360 --> 00:59:06,120
point similar to what you just
said, and it's just something

852
00:59:06,120 --> 00:59:10,240
that I was teaching my kids this
week as we were reading was that

853
00:59:10,440 --> 00:59:14,360
just because something is legal
and on the books does not

854
00:59:14,360 --> 00:59:17,880
necessarily have any reflection
of its morality.

855
00:59:18,640 --> 00:59:21,560
There's plenty of things that
are really illegal that

856
00:59:21,560 --> 00:59:23,640
shouldn't be and plenty of
things that are legal that

857
00:59:23,640 --> 00:59:28,400
should not be.
And I even a couple months ago,

858
00:59:28,400 --> 00:59:32,120
I sat down with AI, had a
conversation with a lawyer and

859
00:59:32,120 --> 00:59:36,200
she was showing me kind of how
the law worked and how how to

860
00:59:36,200 --> 00:59:38,560
look up different laws.
And we were looking at Utah laws

861
00:59:39,160 --> 00:59:41,560
and she was showing me some of
the recent laws that had been

862
00:59:41,560 --> 00:59:44,600
changed.
And it was very interesting

863
00:59:44,600 --> 00:59:49,720
because they were specific to
some child abuse punishments.

864
00:59:50,240 --> 00:59:54,640
And it was really strange that
they had reduced the punishments

865
00:59:54,640 --> 00:59:59,840
for very, very specific types of
child abuse.

866
00:59:59,880 --> 01:00:01,680
And I was asking her why that
was.

867
01:00:01,680 --> 01:00:07,880
And she was just saying how it
was very common for people to

868
01:00:08,520 --> 01:00:12,800
change laws to help a brother
out, so to speak.

869
01:00:12,800 --> 01:00:14,600
Like, they know that something's
going to happen.

870
01:00:14,600 --> 01:00:20,160
So they temporarily lessen the
the severity of the punishments

871
01:00:20,280 --> 01:00:23,200
until it's blown over with
somebody they know.

872
01:00:23,920 --> 01:00:26,440
And you know, it's just
disgusting and sad to see that.

873
01:00:26,440 --> 01:00:31,000
But that's that's just an
example of our, it's not true

874
01:00:31,000 --> 01:00:35,040
justice according to what he's
describing, Cicero's describing

875
01:00:35,040 --> 01:00:38,840
here, because they shouldn't be
able to be changed by the

876
01:00:38,840 --> 01:00:43,000
customs of the nation or, you
know, Willy nilly like they are.

877
01:00:43,120 --> 01:00:44,560
So anyway, that's just my
comment.

878
01:00:45,600 --> 01:00:47,520
No, I think that's perfect.
That's awesome.

879
01:00:48,120 --> 01:00:49,880
Thanks, Vanessa.
Anybody else?

880
01:00:54,760 --> 01:01:01,560
OK, let me ask this question.
What's going to be easier,

881
01:01:03,200 --> 01:01:06,440
catching something that's going
to become a bad law before it

882
01:01:06,440 --> 01:01:10,800
gets voted on and becomes law,
or trying to remove it after

883
01:01:10,800 --> 01:01:15,600
it's already become law?
Where's our best shot at at

884
01:01:15,640 --> 01:01:19,040
winning, so to speak, on making
sure bad laws don't get passed?

885
01:01:24,720 --> 01:01:32,040
Anybody.
You know, I, I think I get where

886
01:01:32,040 --> 01:01:34,480
you're going with that.
I can see another side to this

887
01:01:34,480 --> 01:01:37,360
as well though.
So I think obviously it it think

888
01:01:37,360 --> 01:01:39,880
before things get bad, it's
easier to fix.

889
01:01:41,600 --> 01:01:46,840
However, sometimes, sometimes
people need pain to recognize

890
01:01:47,000 --> 01:01:51,680
that there's a problem.
The only problem with that is

891
01:01:51,680 --> 01:01:57,520
often times it's an overreaction
and we lose yet again because

892
01:01:57,640 --> 01:02:00,480
the real issue is people don't
believe this anymore.

893
01:02:00,720 --> 01:02:04,680
Americans as a people don't
believe this.

894
01:02:04,680 --> 01:02:08,240
They think that law is whatever
the lawyer says, whatever the

895
01:02:08,240 --> 01:02:13,560
legislator says, that man is, is
in control of these things.

896
01:02:13,560 --> 01:02:16,280
And if and if the government
says that this is how it's going

897
01:02:16,280 --> 01:02:19,520
to be, then that's OK.
And that's, that is how it needs

898
01:02:19,520 --> 01:02:23,360
to be and it'll work.
And then when it, when it

899
01:02:23,360 --> 01:02:27,440
doesn't and these things fail,
there's often an overreaction

900
01:02:27,440 --> 01:02:31,960
the other direction.
But ideally it's, it's a lot

901
01:02:31,960 --> 01:02:36,880
easier to preserve liberty than
to, than to attain liberty as

902
01:02:36,880 --> 01:02:43,280
the founding fathers.
So showed us by example.

903
01:02:45,400 --> 01:02:50,120
Absolutely.
You know, I'm like you, Justin.

904
01:02:50,120 --> 01:02:55,360
I see two sides of this, right?
One is yeah, if you can avoid a

905
01:02:55,360 --> 01:03:02,040
train wreck early, better off.
However, the one place that I

906
01:03:02,040 --> 01:03:09,960
think some constitutional
scholars have it right is when

907
01:03:09,960 --> 01:03:14,000
they call the constitutional
living document, but not in the

908
01:03:14,000 --> 01:03:17,680
sense of the way say a more
progressive or left-leaning

909
01:03:18,200 --> 01:03:20,200
attorney or judge would say.
Right.

910
01:03:20,200 --> 01:03:22,240
When they say that the
Constitution is a living

911
01:03:22,240 --> 01:03:25,560
document, what they're saying
is, is that the founders

912
01:03:25,560 --> 01:03:30,040
original intent does not matter,
that the intention of the

913
01:03:30,040 --> 01:03:36,880
document is to try to make it
fit what we feel is right based

914
01:03:36,880 --> 01:03:40,320
on the times we live.
I tend to take a more literal

915
01:03:40,320 --> 01:03:46,480
approach to the Constitution.
I think that by and large they,

916
01:03:46,720 --> 01:03:50,200
the principles that they
illuminated are going to, once

917
01:03:50,200 --> 01:03:53,480
again, as we talked about being
unchangeable and eternal,

918
01:03:53,480 --> 01:03:55,720
they're going to span the test
of time.

919
01:03:56,760 --> 01:04:02,800
And so with that said, the way
that the Constitution becomes a

920
01:04:02,800 --> 01:04:07,120
living document, we'll just take
Prohibition as an example.

921
01:04:08,120 --> 01:04:14,160
It took writing another, you
know, an amendment to the

922
01:04:14,160 --> 01:04:18,920
Constitution to say that alcohol
was outlawed.

923
01:04:19,960 --> 01:04:24,560
It took another amendment to
undo that.

924
01:04:24,920 --> 01:04:32,760
Now, let me ask you the
question, why is it better that

925
01:04:33,240 --> 01:04:38,120
if we have a bad law, we have to
go through the entire amendment

926
01:04:38,120 --> 01:04:40,760
process to get it removed from
the Constitution?

927
01:04:41,200 --> 01:04:45,640
What is advantageous about that?
Because I think the the natural

928
01:04:45,640 --> 01:04:50,160
man, the inclination is it's a
bad law, just get rid of it

929
01:04:50,160 --> 01:04:53,480
however we can.
Why is going through the process

930
01:04:53,480 --> 01:04:56,640
so important for constitute for
the Constitution?

931
01:04:59,440 --> 01:05:01,440
You know, isn't this kind of
like the fall?

932
01:05:01,760 --> 01:05:06,360
Isn't this kind of what Eve has
to say about the fall and that,

933
01:05:06,360 --> 01:05:09,640
hey, you know what, it's better
that we go through some

934
01:05:09,840 --> 01:05:13,600
suffering and some sorrow so
that we can know good from evil.

935
01:05:15,640 --> 01:05:19,120
Absolutely.
So the Constitution is

936
01:05:19,120 --> 01:05:24,440
interesting because it look, I'm
not a guy who says that it can't

937
01:05:24,440 --> 01:05:27,520
be changed.
I believe it can be through the

938
01:05:27,520 --> 01:05:30,040
right processes.
I believe that that the

939
01:05:30,040 --> 01:05:32,240
amendment process is there for a
reason.

940
01:05:33,120 --> 01:05:38,520
There there is a great, great
line from from Joe Rogan on one

941
01:05:38,520 --> 01:05:41,720
of his stand up specials.
And he was talking about this

942
01:05:41,720 --> 01:05:43,600
idea of amending the
Constitution.

943
01:05:44,560 --> 01:05:51,040
And he said he often wonders if
when you know, if he could speak

944
01:05:51,040 --> 01:05:53,840
to Thomas Jefferson and and show
him where we are, if he wouldn't

945
01:05:53,840 --> 01:05:56,280
have been like, wait, you guys
haven't wrote any new stuff.

946
01:05:56,760 --> 01:06:03,960
I wrote that with a feather now.
Not quite that that lambastic

947
01:06:03,960 --> 01:06:08,000
about it, so to speak, or that
that over the top, but I do

948
01:06:08,000 --> 01:06:10,720
believe that there is an
amendment process that was

949
01:06:10,720 --> 01:06:14,040
illuminated for a reason.
And I think that reason is, is

950
01:06:14,040 --> 01:06:18,240
for our posterity, right?
Like the scriptures show us like

951
01:06:18,240 --> 01:06:21,560
if we look at the scriptures, a
lot of the scriptures just show

952
01:06:21,560 --> 01:06:25,080
us man's foibles and man's
shortcomings all over the place,

953
01:06:25,080 --> 01:06:29,000
especially the Old Testament.
We see it in the Book of Mormon.

954
01:06:29,000 --> 01:06:32,520
We even see it in the New
Testament some, but definitely

955
01:06:32,520 --> 01:06:35,320
in the Old Testament where man
keeps screwing up and he's got

956
01:06:35,320 --> 01:06:38,240
to go back and fix things and
try to make progress.

957
01:06:39,240 --> 01:06:42,360
Likewise, I think that amendment
process is there on the

958
01:06:42,360 --> 01:06:47,600
Constitution so that it has
scars so that as our posterity

959
01:06:47,600 --> 01:06:51,760
comes behind us, they can look
and go, you know, we should just

960
01:06:51,840 --> 01:06:54,280
get rid of booze.
If we just get rid of booze,

961
01:06:54,280 --> 01:06:57,080
everything is good.
And then they can look at the

962
01:06:57,080 --> 01:07:00,080
Constitution and go, oh, wait,
look, they they tried this and

963
01:07:00,080 --> 01:07:03,880
they actually had to reverse it.
And it shows the scars, right?

964
01:07:04,280 --> 01:07:09,000
It shows the learning that was
done by our forebears so we

965
01:07:09,000 --> 01:07:11,880
don't make the same mistake.
Does anyone have any other

966
01:07:11,880 --> 01:07:15,640
thoughts on that?
It, it kind of reminds me in the

967
01:07:15,640 --> 01:07:19,000
Book of Mormon where the where
the Nephites say that they

968
01:07:19,000 --> 01:07:23,800
remember the captivity of their
fathers and for a generation,

969
01:07:23,800 --> 01:07:28,440
right, they had that grounding
because of the of those bad

970
01:07:28,440 --> 01:07:30,240
things they went through.
But I mean, honestly, this is

971
01:07:30,240 --> 01:07:32,960
kind of one of the things that
my biggest critique on on

972
01:07:32,960 --> 01:07:37,000
conservative takes on the law is
the focus on original intent.

973
01:07:37,200 --> 01:07:40,920
Personally, because I think
original intent is a complete

974
01:07:40,920 --> 01:07:43,840
nothing burger.
We should be able to argue the

975
01:07:43,840 --> 01:07:46,800
original tent the way the
founding fathers did it was

976
01:07:47,120 --> 01:07:50,600
they're not gods that had an
original attempt and was it was

977
01:07:50,600 --> 01:07:53,400
always perfect either.
We had things like slavery that

978
01:07:53,400 --> 01:07:58,400
were that it was part of the
original intent and it needed to

979
01:07:58,400 --> 01:07:59,920
go.
They wanted it to go, but they

980
01:07:59,920 --> 01:08:02,800
weren't able to at the time.
They wanted it to be improved.

981
01:08:02,800 --> 01:08:05,840
They wanted it.
They they didn't see themselves

982
01:08:05,840 --> 01:08:09,760
as these perfect men who had all
the answers to everything.

983
01:08:09,760 --> 01:08:14,120
They expected us to continue
that legacy, not squander it.

984
01:08:15,520 --> 01:08:23,439
Absolutely good stuff.
We see your hand up.

985
01:08:29,080 --> 01:08:47,490
You're on mute, Lee
Lee, you're on mute when you it

986
01:08:47,490 --> 01:08:48,890
should be down on the lower
left.

987
01:08:48,890 --> 01:08:50,810
If you're oh, there you go.
You know you're off can.

988
01:08:51,130 --> 01:08:53,649
You hear me now?
Yep, can hear you now.

989
01:08:54,050 --> 01:08:57,850
Yeah, I'm I'm completely new to
all this, so bear with me.

990
01:08:58,689 --> 01:09:04,529
Hey, I, I just, I attended a, a
class quite a, quite a bunch of

991
01:09:04,529 --> 01:09:08,760
years ago and it was on justice.
And I, and, you know, you guys

992
01:09:08,760 --> 01:09:11,399
were talking about, you know,
making amendments to the

993
01:09:11,399 --> 01:09:14,240
Constitution.
And he made the comment about

994
01:09:14,240 --> 01:09:19,439
how, you know, you think it's OK
in certain situations.

995
01:09:19,439 --> 01:09:24,160
But so in this class, I just
wanted to share, they went over

996
01:09:24,160 --> 01:09:27,279
these eight things that had to
be in place for you to have

997
01:09:27,279 --> 01:09:30,359
justice in this class.
And I thought I'd just go

998
01:09:30,359 --> 01:09:33,920
through them real quick if, if
you don't mind me bringing them

999
01:09:33,920 --> 01:09:42,520
up, please do.
So if you think about chaos, the

1000
01:09:42,520 --> 01:09:46,520
first thing you have to start
with to have any justices, you

1001
01:09:46,520 --> 01:09:49,080
got to start with personal
boundaries or boundaries,

1002
01:09:49,080 --> 01:09:51,240
period.
You know, there's got to be,

1003
01:09:51,240 --> 01:09:54,600
there's got to be these lines,
these boundaries to even start

1004
01:09:54,600 --> 01:09:58,560
with, right?
And so as I go through these,

1005
01:09:58,560 --> 01:10:02,920
think about the things that the
government has been trying to do

1006
01:10:02,920 --> 01:10:08,680
away with in the past recent
years and you'll see that

1007
01:10:08,680 --> 01:10:12,200
they're taking, they're taking a
dig at all of these things.

1008
01:10:12,200 --> 01:10:16,720
But after personal boundaries,
you've got to have, you know,

1009
01:10:16,720 --> 01:10:21,640
think of personal boundaries as
being your body and your your

1010
01:10:21,640 --> 01:10:23,200
agency and these kinds of
things.

1011
01:10:23,760 --> 01:10:27,040
So you have to have also have
property rights, which is an

1012
01:10:27,040 --> 01:10:29,960
extension of you.
OK, so those are the first.

1013
01:10:29,960 --> 01:10:32,880
Those are the first two things.
The third one is you've got to

1014
01:10:32,880 --> 01:10:39,480
have no trespassing.
The 4th 1 is called access

1015
01:10:39,480 --> 01:10:45,200
through covenant.
These are things that just stack

1016
01:10:45,200 --> 01:10:47,360
up from the bottom.
You start with boundaries and

1017
01:10:47,360 --> 01:10:50,840
you got, you know, personal
rights, property rights, no

1018
01:10:50,840 --> 01:10:52,800
trespassing, access through
covenant.

1019
01:10:53,160 --> 01:10:56,800
Then you've got to have due
process investigation before

1020
01:10:56,800 --> 01:10:59,800
judgment, before you make a
determination.

1021
01:10:59,800 --> 01:11:01,320
There has to be an
investigation.

1022
01:11:02,880 --> 01:11:08,480
You know the the 6th 1 is no
partiality, no respecter of

1023
01:11:08,480 --> 01:11:14,040
persons.
The 7th is there must be a just

1024
01:11:14,080 --> 01:11:18,200
penalty of fixed.
So you know, for instance, you

1025
01:11:18,200 --> 01:11:24,280
can't take the cat as nine tails
on the whip to a young infant

1026
01:11:24,280 --> 01:11:29,120
child that has made almost an
innocent mistake, right?

1027
01:11:29,600 --> 01:11:33,080
That's that idea.
There has to be a just

1028
01:11:33,080 --> 01:11:38,960
consequence of fixed.
And once you have all these

1029
01:11:38,960 --> 01:11:43,560
seven, the very capping and
crowning 1 is your reap what you

1030
01:11:43,560 --> 01:11:48,560
sow.
And these are the 8 things that

1031
01:11:48,560 --> 01:11:53,680
have basically have to be in
place or at least the seven or

1032
01:11:53,680 --> 01:11:57,320
you don't have justice at all.
So any amendments, what I was

1033
01:11:57,320 --> 01:11:59,640
trying to get out here is any
amendments that you make to the

1034
01:11:59,640 --> 01:12:07,440
Constitution cannot violate any
of these things or you no longer

1035
01:12:07,440 --> 01:12:09,720
have justice.
You have an injustice in some

1036
01:12:09,720 --> 01:12:14,040
form.
The interesting, yeah, the an

1037
01:12:14,040 --> 01:12:17,160
interesting thing here is once
you have all of these in place

1038
01:12:17,360 --> 01:12:21,960
and you think of Christ
fulfilling the fulfilling the

1039
01:12:21,960 --> 01:12:29,040
law and taking care of our
justices through the atonement,

1040
01:12:29,960 --> 01:12:33,920
what he did is he opened up
because he satisfied the demands

1041
01:12:33,920 --> 01:12:36,920
of justice.
Now mercy and kindness and

1042
01:12:36,920 --> 01:12:41,400
generosity and forgiveness and
all these things can be extended

1043
01:12:41,600 --> 01:12:46,720
to whatever level he wants to
sew at that point, right?

1044
01:12:47,120 --> 01:12:49,680
Without.
And he will not, it will not rob

1045
01:12:49,680 --> 01:12:53,800
justice in any degree.
Anyway, this was a pretty cool

1046
01:12:53,800 --> 01:12:56,040
thing to me and I just thought
it's just a good time to share

1047
01:12:56,040 --> 01:12:57,040
this.
You know, if you're going to, if

1048
01:12:57,040 --> 01:13:01,400
you're going to make amendments
they need, nothing you do can

1049
01:13:01,400 --> 01:13:04,240
violate these these 8
principles.

1050
01:13:04,240 --> 01:13:07,800
You no longer have justice.
You know, and what's

1051
01:13:07,800 --> 01:13:11,440
interesting, Lee, is thanks for
sharing that, Lee, as you are

1052
01:13:11,440 --> 01:13:14,240
going through that, I was just
thinking as you were going

1053
01:13:14,240 --> 01:13:18,680
through those, all of those
things become pretty, pretty

1054
01:13:18,680 --> 01:13:21,280
spelled out in our founding
documents.

1055
01:13:21,720 --> 01:13:24,120
And I, I don't think that is
happenstance.

1056
01:13:24,120 --> 01:13:27,880
I think it's just showing this
natural connection between what

1057
01:13:27,880 --> 01:13:33,400
the founders were trying to do
and trying to make it sync up

1058
01:13:33,400 --> 01:13:36,760
with God's law or natural law,
depending on how you want to put

1059
01:13:36,760 --> 01:13:39,640
it.
Does anyone else have anything

1060
01:13:39,640 --> 01:13:42,400
else they want to add before we
move on here?

1061
01:13:45,680 --> 01:13:53,400
All right again, this is kind of
going along with what what Lee

1062
01:13:53,400 --> 01:13:57,440
just talked about that all law
should be measured against God's

1063
01:13:57,440 --> 01:14:01,280
law.
Cicero says therefore law and I

1064
01:14:01,280 --> 01:14:05,000
put in parentheses here of the
creator is the distinction

1065
01:14:05,000 --> 01:14:09,040
between things just and unjust.
Lee there there's another nod

1066
01:14:09,040 --> 01:14:13,960
back to to having justice made
an agreement with that primal

1067
01:14:13,960 --> 01:14:16,360
and most ancient of all things
nature.

1068
01:14:16,600 --> 01:14:21,080
Again, I put in parentheses God
and in conformity to nature's

1069
01:14:21,080 --> 01:14:26,240
standards are framed those human
laws which inflict punishment

1070
01:14:26,240 --> 01:14:29,240
upon the wicked and protect the
good.

1071
01:14:29,880 --> 01:14:32,800
Lee, I think your your 8
principles there that you

1072
01:14:32,800 --> 01:14:36,360
illuminated.
I'll kind of tie right in with

1073
01:14:36,360 --> 01:14:38,040
this.
Does anyone have anything else

1074
01:14:38,040 --> 01:14:40,240
that they would like to add to
this portion here?

1075
01:14:40,880 --> 01:14:43,000
Any thoughts or comments?
Questions.

1076
01:14:49,920 --> 01:14:54,600
OK, so here's Cicero's
conclusion.

1077
01:14:56,400 --> 01:15:01,680
As one in the same nature or God
holds together and supports the

1078
01:15:01,680 --> 01:15:07,560
universe of all, of all of whose
parts are in harmony with one

1079
01:15:07,560 --> 01:15:11,520
another, so men are united in
nature or God.

1080
01:15:12,200 --> 01:15:16,920
But by reason of the depravity,
they quarrel, not realizing that

1081
01:15:16,920 --> 01:15:21,080
they are of one blood and
subject to 1 and the same

1082
01:15:21,080 --> 01:15:24,880
protecting power.
If this fact were understood,

1083
01:15:25,240 --> 01:15:30,040
surely men would live, live the
life of the gods.

1084
01:15:30,760 --> 01:15:34,120
So Cicero's basically saying,
look, if we would just recognize

1085
01:15:34,120 --> 01:15:38,000
this and, and here I think,
well, let me ask this question

1086
01:15:38,680 --> 01:15:43,560
before I just spouted the lip.
What do you think Cicero was

1087
01:15:43,560 --> 01:15:48,080
pointing to here when he says
they quarrel, not realizing that

1088
01:15:48,080 --> 01:15:52,200
they are of one blood and
subject to 1 and the same

1089
01:15:52,200 --> 01:15:56,040
protecting power.
How would we phrase that today?

1090
01:15:57,800 --> 01:16:01,040
Or how would the founders have
framed that in our founding

1091
01:16:01,040 --> 01:16:09,730
documents?
I think there's a direct

1092
01:16:09,730 --> 01:16:14,280
parallel here to A, to a line
that we hear out of the

1093
01:16:14,280 --> 01:16:23,570
Declaration and Constitution.
I think it's this.

1094
01:16:24,290 --> 01:16:26,890
Are you alluding?
I just think you might be

1095
01:16:26,890 --> 01:16:29,650
alluding to the unalienable
rights that we have been endowed

1096
01:16:29,650 --> 01:16:31,450
with by our Creator.
Is that where you're where

1097
01:16:31,450 --> 01:16:33,650
you're going?
That's definitely part of it.

1098
01:16:33,650 --> 01:16:35,330
The other part of it where I'm.
Going.

1099
01:16:35,330 --> 01:16:38,810
You do have a hand, Dave.
Oh, Justin.

1100
01:16:38,930 --> 01:16:40,770
I'm not Justin.
Sorry, that was Lee.

1101
01:16:40,810 --> 01:16:42,490
I think he still he never got it
down.

1102
01:16:42,930 --> 01:16:44,770
Oh, there we go.
OK, cool.

1103
01:16:46,330 --> 01:16:49,040
All right.
Did you have something, Taylor?

1104
01:16:54,380 --> 01:16:56,180
OK.
This, this phrase, all men are

1105
01:16:56,180 --> 01:16:59,300
created equal, like Tim alluded,
but I think it's the one right

1106
01:16:59,300 --> 01:17:02,500
after that that yeah, and are
endowed with quite are created

1107
01:17:02,500 --> 01:17:05,140
with unalienable rights, but all
men are created equal.

1108
01:17:06,020 --> 01:17:07,700
I think that's exactly what it
is.

1109
01:17:07,700 --> 01:17:11,380
I think what he's saying is
like, look, we, we are all of

1110
01:17:11,380 --> 01:17:19,240
one blood, all are equal before
the law and we all reside on the

1111
01:17:19,240 --> 01:17:24,760
same protecting power.
It's definitely got shades of

1112
01:17:25,280 --> 01:17:30,600
of, you know, reliance on, on
divine Providence, you know,

1113
01:17:30,600 --> 01:17:33,880
that protecting power.
I find it very interesting that

1114
01:17:33,880 --> 01:17:37,240
that's all there.
Anybody else have anything

1115
01:17:37,240 --> 01:17:40,160
they'd like to add to this
before we move on to the second

1116
01:17:40,160 --> 01:17:43,560
chapter, which is pretty short
that we will go over tonight?

1117
01:17:48,120 --> 01:17:54,480
OK, perfect.
So the, the title of this

1118
01:17:54,480 --> 01:18:01,360
section was the that a virtuous
and moral people is is what's

1119
01:18:01,360 --> 01:18:03,360
required here.
And this was really the big

1120
01:18:03,360 --> 01:18:08,280
question of, of the revolution
in the reading it, it makes it

1121
01:18:08,280 --> 01:18:14,880
pretty clear that the question
is, is man sufficiently virtuous

1122
01:18:14,880 --> 01:18:19,400
and moral to govern himself?
And what I find really

1123
01:18:19,400 --> 01:18:23,400
interesting about this, and it
it's something I have believed

1124
01:18:23,400 --> 01:18:29,240
for a long time, is that whether
it's religion or politics, I

1125
01:18:29,240 --> 01:18:33,240
think we're still fighting the
original fight.

1126
01:18:33,800 --> 01:18:37,720
And the question is, is can man,
if we're looking at it from a

1127
01:18:37,720 --> 01:18:41,520
Mormon point of view, the
question is, can man govern

1128
01:18:41,520 --> 01:18:45,720
himself to the point that he can
get back to where God is and

1129
01:18:45,760 --> 01:18:50,360
become like God?
And that was really the the

1130
01:18:50,360 --> 01:18:55,560
question of the revolution, can
man govern himself?

1131
01:18:58,120 --> 01:19:01,200
That is the question that I
think we're still at today.

1132
01:19:01,360 --> 01:19:06,400
And unfortunately, one of the
things I'm seeing is rise in

1133
01:19:07,080 --> 01:19:10,480
kind of almost a pining for
monarchy.

1134
01:19:11,520 --> 01:19:16,720
I was talking to one young man
here a few weeks back and he had

1135
01:19:16,720 --> 01:19:20,880
said, you know, Dave, I, I
really feel like what the

1136
01:19:20,880 --> 01:19:25,720
founders given us has failed and
that they failed us in some ways

1137
01:19:25,720 --> 01:19:31,200
and that I think we would be
better suited with a monarch now

1138
01:19:31,480 --> 01:19:35,000
from a Mormon point of view.
Council 50 sort of a thing.

1139
01:19:35,800 --> 01:19:42,640
I think you can make some some
arguments for it, but that role

1140
01:19:42,640 --> 01:19:47,360
of king and priest is not going
to be kingly in the sense that

1141
01:19:47,360 --> 01:19:53,000
maybe we saw in medieval Europe.
It would be a different thing.

1142
01:19:53,760 --> 01:19:57,960
But nonetheless, I wanted to to
bring this out because I do

1143
01:19:57,960 --> 01:20:00,480
think that it's important that
we're reaching out to our young

1144
01:20:00,480 --> 01:20:03,560
people on this.
Because they are growing

1145
01:20:03,560 --> 01:20:08,480
disillusioned every day more and
more with the state things are.

1146
01:20:08,480 --> 01:20:11,840
And look, I want to say this,
they have valid points.

1147
01:20:12,400 --> 01:20:19,520
They are not without veracity in
some of the charges that they're

1148
01:20:19,520 --> 01:20:27,320
leveling to us or at us.
I would say that, you know, my

1149
01:20:27,320 --> 01:20:30,760
response to this young man was
we haven't really lived the

1150
01:20:30,760 --> 01:20:35,600
Constitution in over 100 years
where it would, it would be like

1151
01:20:35,600 --> 01:20:39,440
saying, well, working out's not
working for me, but you're not

1152
01:20:39,440 --> 01:20:42,400
really going to the gym.
Of course it's not working for

1153
01:20:42,400 --> 01:20:44,200
you.
You have to do more than put on

1154
01:20:44,200 --> 01:20:46,120
your shoes and sit on the bench
at the gym.

1155
01:20:46,120 --> 01:20:51,480
You got to go do some stuff.
And so I I bring this point up

1156
01:20:51,520 --> 01:20:55,520
because this is the original
argument and our young people

1157
01:20:55,520 --> 01:20:59,360
are being faced with this today.
Does anybody have anything that

1158
01:20:59,360 --> 01:21:02,120
they'd like to add to this part
before we move on?

1159
01:21:02,120 --> 01:21:04,880
I'd love to hear any of your
thoughts or impressions here.

1160
01:21:09,960 --> 01:21:17,400
I.
I see your hand up again, Lee.

1161
01:21:17,400 --> 01:21:19,800
You're on mute, brother.
There you go.

1162
01:21:19,920 --> 01:21:23,880
OK.
OK, Dave, I want to just share

1163
01:21:23,880 --> 01:21:27,920
something, if I can, out of the
teachings of the prophet on this

1164
01:21:28,360 --> 01:21:34,240
this subject here.
So in here he's talking about

1165
01:21:34,240 --> 01:21:39,520
the the failed attempts at
govern of man trying to govern

1166
01:21:39,560 --> 01:21:42,560
him, govern himself, you know,
the government governments of

1167
01:21:42,560 --> 01:21:51,240
the world, you know, failing.
Anyway, I want to just just a

1168
01:21:51,480 --> 01:21:55,520
little bit here.
This is the only thing that can

1169
01:21:55,520 --> 01:21:59,760
bring about the restitution of
all things spoken of by the Holy

1170
01:22:00,360 --> 01:22:03,800
Prophet, since the world was the
dispensation of fullness of

1171
01:22:03,800 --> 01:22:07,720
times when God shall gather
together all things in one.

1172
01:22:08,240 --> 01:22:12,000
Their attempts to promote
promote universal peace and

1173
01:22:12,000 --> 01:22:16,680
happiness in the human family
have proved abortive.

1174
01:22:17,520 --> 01:22:20,840
Character has failed every
planet and I have fallen to the

1175
01:22:20,840 --> 01:22:23,640
grown.
It's the wisdom of God, the

1176
01:22:23,640 --> 01:22:27,520
intelligence of God, and the
power of God to accomplish this.

1177
01:22:28,040 --> 01:22:33,120
The world has had a fair trial
for 6000 years.

1178
01:22:33,640 --> 01:22:36,480
The Lord will try the 7000
himself.

1179
01:22:37,200 --> 01:22:40,160
He whose right it is will
possess the King.

1180
01:22:45,790 --> 01:22:48,150
We lost him.
We lost Lee.

1181
01:22:50,390 --> 01:22:53,280
I think I oh, you're back all
right.

1182
01:22:54,040 --> 01:22:57,040
We kind of lost you there for a.
Second, I lost you there for a

1183
01:22:57,040 --> 01:23:00,000
minute.
OK, I don't know where I left

1184
01:23:00,000 --> 01:23:06,440
off, but Joseph was saying the
world has had a fair Isle for

1185
01:23:06,440 --> 01:23:09,680
6000 years.
He says the Lord will try the

1186
01:23:09,680 --> 01:23:13,400
7000 himself.
He whose right it is will

1187
01:23:13,400 --> 01:23:16,280
possess the Kingdom and reign
until he has put all things

1188
01:23:16,280 --> 01:23:19,000
under his feet.
Iniquity will hide its horny

1189
01:23:19,000 --> 01:23:22,720
head, Satan will be bound in the
works of darkness destroyed

1190
01:23:23,160 --> 01:23:26,120
righteousness will be put to the
line, and judgment to the

1191
01:23:26,120 --> 01:23:30,920
plummet, and he that fears the
Lord will alone be exalted in

1192
01:23:30,920 --> 01:23:34,640
that day.
To bring about this state of

1193
01:23:34,640 --> 01:23:40,000
things there must of necessity
be great confusion among the

1194
01:23:40,000 --> 01:23:43,960
nations of the earth, distress
of nations, and perplexity.

1195
01:23:47,160 --> 01:23:51,840
Am I asked what is the cause of
the present distress?

1196
01:23:51,840 --> 01:23:55,400
I would answer, Shall there be
evil in a city?

1197
01:23:55,400 --> 01:23:59,800
And the Lord hath not done it.
The grunt.

1198
01:23:59,800 --> 01:24:02,880
The earth is groaning under
corruption, oppression, tyranny,

1199
01:24:02,880 --> 01:24:07,360
and bloodshed, and God is coming
out of His hiding place, as He

1200
01:24:07,720 --> 01:24:11,560
said He would do to vex the
nations of the earth.

1201
01:24:12,200 --> 01:24:15,440
Anyway, he goes on, but he's
he's basically the point he's

1202
01:24:15,440 --> 01:24:21,880
making is man has had all this
time to prove whether they will

1203
01:24:21,880 --> 01:24:25,440
govern themselves and and they
have not done it.

1204
01:24:25,440 --> 01:24:30,800
They've only produced injustice
as far as of man made

1205
01:24:30,800 --> 01:24:34,000
governments.
And you know, it's the

1206
01:24:34,000 --> 01:24:37,400
government of God that will
prevail when he comes out of his

1207
01:24:37,400 --> 01:24:40,520
hiding place and establishes his
ways.

1208
01:24:41,280 --> 01:24:43,240
So anyway, I thought I'd read
that little part there.

1209
01:24:43,240 --> 01:24:45,280
It's just, it's just
interesting, you know, we seem

1210
01:24:45,280 --> 01:24:49,280
to fail and fail and fail at
trying to govern ourselves.

1211
01:24:50,200 --> 01:24:57,080
But you know, we must somehow by
doing it the words way.

1212
01:24:58,440 --> 01:25:01,120
That's all I had.
It's Steph.

1213
01:25:01,120 --> 01:25:04,160
Does anyone have anything they'd
like to say in response or about

1214
01:25:04,160 --> 01:25:06,600
this this particular portion
here?

1215
01:25:09,560 --> 01:25:12,440
I was going to just share, you
know, an example in the Book of

1216
01:25:12,440 --> 01:25:15,280
Mormon where you have Alma,
who's basically, he's the

1217
01:25:15,280 --> 01:25:19,600
president, he's the chief judge
and things aren't going good in

1218
01:25:19,600 --> 01:25:22,360
Nephite society.
And you would think that this is

1219
01:25:22,360 --> 01:25:26,440
the time where we need a great
leader in the in the judgement

1220
01:25:26,440 --> 01:25:31,240
seat, right?
And Alma steps down and instead

1221
01:25:31,240 --> 01:25:34,240
he preaches the gospel 'cause he
understands the real fight is

1222
01:25:34,240 --> 01:25:36,440
literally this.
It's the virtuous and moral

1223
01:25:36,440 --> 01:25:39,400
people.
And he knew that the Word of God

1224
01:25:39,880 --> 01:25:43,360
is the only thing that could
actually produce real change.

1225
01:25:44,120 --> 01:25:47,720
Having a even having a righteous
leader and in a government

1226
01:25:47,720 --> 01:25:52,800
system at the top can't bring
about the change necessary when

1227
01:25:52,800 --> 01:25:56,800
the people desire immorality,
when the people don't want to

1228
01:25:56,800 --> 01:26:01,240
live according to natural law,
they don't want to live

1229
01:26:01,240 --> 01:26:04,680
according to truth.
And so, you know, to anybody

1230
01:26:04,680 --> 01:26:07,480
who's out there is disillusioned
with the way things are.

1231
01:26:07,480 --> 01:26:09,400
I get it.
I'm I'm pretty black billed in a

1232
01:26:09,400 --> 01:26:11,560
lot of ways myself when it comes
to politics.

1233
01:26:13,000 --> 01:26:15,640
But there is a solution and
it's, it's, it's this, it's,

1234
01:26:15,640 --> 01:26:20,960
it's preaching the word.
And there's nothing else that

1235
01:26:21,440 --> 01:26:25,840
can save this nation, this
country, the world other than a

1236
01:26:25,840 --> 01:26:29,560
return to morality and and
virtue.

1237
01:26:30,600 --> 01:26:34,080
No form of government, no
politician, no camp political

1238
01:26:34,080 --> 01:26:37,760
campaign, no political agenda,
no law to get past.

1239
01:26:37,760 --> 01:26:42,200
Nothing can save us other than a
moral and virtuous people.

1240
01:26:43,400 --> 01:26:46,000
Justin, 100% I can agree with
you more.

1241
01:26:46,400 --> 01:26:49,680
And I think it also also Harkins
back to that for one of the

1242
01:26:49,680 --> 01:26:54,040
first slides we had on here as
we opened this discussion group

1243
01:26:54,040 --> 01:26:58,840
up where John Taylor basically
says the day is going to come

1244
01:26:58,840 --> 01:27:02,560
when the elders are going to and
and I'm paraphrasing here, but

1245
01:27:02,560 --> 01:27:06,680
essentially preach liberty at
the same time, preaching the

1246
01:27:06,680 --> 01:27:10,400
Constitution.
And and that is a great segue

1247
01:27:10,400 --> 01:27:12,080
into where we're going to go
next.

1248
01:27:12,760 --> 01:27:18,640
And so when, when the people
were ready for liberty.

1249
01:27:20,120 --> 01:27:23,360
And this is on page 52 and I'm
going to read this and I'm going

1250
01:27:23,360 --> 01:27:24,920
to roll right into something
else.

1251
01:27:24,920 --> 01:27:29,960
So forgive me here, but I, I
really feel like this, this ties

1252
01:27:29,960 --> 01:27:31,600
in well with what Justin just
says.

1253
01:27:32,080 --> 01:27:37,200
So in 52, it says, and this
comes from a periodical of the

1254
01:27:37,200 --> 01:27:42,360
times when, when, when the when
the revolution first gets

1255
01:27:42,360 --> 01:27:45,640
started.
There's a very real sense even

1256
01:27:45,640 --> 01:27:48,440
amongst the colonists
themselves, like can we do this?

1257
01:27:50,400 --> 01:27:53,280
Every other attempt hadn't gone
so well, right.

1258
01:27:53,280 --> 01:27:56,720
I mean, Rome lasts for a long
time, but it doesn't necessarily

1259
01:27:56,720 --> 01:28:01,240
stay liberty minded for very
long before the Caesar comes in

1260
01:28:01,240 --> 01:28:05,480
to to exercise dominion there
becoming an emperor.

1261
01:28:06,440 --> 01:28:10,720
And so this is what one thing
said one periodical of the time

1262
01:28:10,720 --> 01:28:12,800
it said.
In the eyes of the Whigs, the

1263
01:28:12,800 --> 01:28:16,120
two or three years before the
Declaration of Independence

1264
01:28:16,560 --> 01:28:20,440
always appears to be a great
period of the Revolution.

1265
01:28:20,840 --> 01:28:25,600
The time of greatest denial and
cohesion, when men ceased to

1266
01:28:25,600 --> 01:28:29,520
exhort and abuse one another,
when families and communities

1267
01:28:29,520 --> 01:28:37,160
seemed, I can never say that
word, peculiarly, peculiarly

1268
01:28:37,200 --> 01:28:41,280
united when the courts were
wonderfully free of that

1269
01:28:41,280 --> 01:28:46,360
constant bickering over the land
and credit that had dominated

1270
01:28:46,360 --> 01:28:50,360
their colonial life.
OK, so it says they do get to a

1271
01:28:50,360 --> 01:28:54,640
.2 or three years before the
declaration.

1272
01:28:54,960 --> 01:28:58,160
And so my question was, how'd
the colonists get there?

1273
01:28:58,680 --> 01:29:01,280
And now I got a little bit of a
pop quiz for you guys.

1274
01:29:02,360 --> 01:29:05,120
Bear with me.
Who's that guy?

1275
01:29:05,280 --> 01:29:06,560
Does anyone want to take a
guess?

1276
01:29:11,280 --> 01:29:12,560
Oh, this is one of my favorite
guys.

1277
01:29:12,640 --> 01:29:17,000
OK, this is going to tie right
in with Alma and what Justin

1278
01:29:17,000 --> 01:29:19,400
said.
That man's name is George

1279
01:29:19,400 --> 01:29:23,400
Whitfield.
Now, Whitfield is an interesting

1280
01:29:23,400 --> 01:29:26,400
character.
He's an Anglican minister in

1281
01:29:26,400 --> 01:29:31,760
England.
And he's he's kind of like got

1282
01:29:31,760 --> 01:29:38,800
rock star status, right?
He was a guy whose oration would

1283
01:29:38,800 --> 01:29:43,080
evoke emotion.
It would evoke reason.

1284
01:29:43,320 --> 01:29:47,000
He had it all when it came to
being able to preach sermon.

1285
01:29:48,400 --> 01:29:53,600
But to George Whitfield's
chagrin, well, let me rephrase

1286
01:29:53,600 --> 01:29:56,160
that.
To the crown's chagrin,

1287
01:29:56,440 --> 01:29:59,160
Whitfield discovers something in
the Scriptures.

1288
01:30:00,240 --> 01:30:06,640
And that is, why does man have
to go to a priest?

1289
01:30:06,640 --> 01:30:09,360
Why can't man just go to God
himself?

1290
01:30:10,080 --> 01:30:16,880
Now, that is a dangerous
question to be asking in in

1291
01:30:16,880 --> 01:30:21,120
England at the time where
monarchs are in control and the

1292
01:30:21,120 --> 01:30:26,640
divine right of kings is a thing
in which the government is

1293
01:30:26,640 --> 01:30:29,080
administered.
And basically, the divine right

1294
01:30:29,080 --> 01:30:33,880
of kings says, look, there's God
and then there's the king, and

1295
01:30:33,880 --> 01:30:37,640
then there's the church.
And it's in that order.

1296
01:30:37,960 --> 01:30:43,080
And so anything the king does
that's sanctioned by God, now

1297
01:30:43,640 --> 01:30:46,480
that's dangerous.
I never want to see that in the

1298
01:30:46,480 --> 01:30:52,400
hands of a politician.
Whitfield stands against that.

1299
01:30:52,960 --> 01:30:55,640
He says, no, you know what?
If you don't have to go to a

1300
01:30:55,640 --> 01:31:00,080
priest, then is the divine right
of kings really a thing?

1301
01:31:00,560 --> 01:31:04,280
Do we need that?
And he starts preaching this in

1302
01:31:04,280 --> 01:31:09,280
England, but yet he's making a
lot of money for the Anglican

1303
01:31:09,280 --> 01:31:13,040
Church because he is.
He is putting butts in seats in

1304
01:31:13,040 --> 01:31:18,320
the pews.
But the people who really like

1305
01:31:18,320 --> 01:31:20,680
the king, they don't like him
too much.

1306
01:31:21,160 --> 01:31:23,600
So the Anglican Church tries to
censure him.

1307
01:31:23,600 --> 01:31:25,920
They say, you know what?
You can't preach anymore inside

1308
01:31:25,920 --> 01:31:28,120
the churches.
You're going to have to go

1309
01:31:28,120 --> 01:31:31,400
outside and preach.
So he starts preaching in like

1310
01:31:31,400 --> 01:31:37,160
local parks and the people who
are in favor of the monarchy,

1311
01:31:37,760 --> 01:31:40,520
they do some horrific things to
this man.

1312
01:31:40,520 --> 01:31:44,240
They toss feces at him.
They pelt him with with

1313
01:31:44,240 --> 01:31:47,320
vegetables.
They try to tar and feather him

1314
01:31:47,320 --> 01:31:50,880
at one point.
And finally the king hears about

1315
01:31:50,880 --> 01:31:52,760
this and he's like, OK, it's,
it's enough.

1316
01:31:52,760 --> 01:31:56,720
And there's actually some
reports that say that that the

1317
01:31:56,720 --> 01:31:59,120
Anglican Church was like, can we
have him killed?

1318
01:31:59,480 --> 01:32:02,920
Can we just shut him up?
And the king was like, no, I

1319
01:32:02,920 --> 01:32:05,040
don't want to do that because he
does have kind of this

1320
01:32:05,040 --> 01:32:06,640
following.
And I'm worried about

1321
01:32:06,640 --> 01:32:09,480
insurrection.
And so they're kind of putting

1322
01:32:09,480 --> 01:32:12,200
their heads together and they
go, I got a great idea.

1323
01:32:12,320 --> 01:32:14,160
Let's send them to the new
world.

1324
01:32:14,240 --> 01:32:17,520
Let's send them to the colonies.
Now you want to talk about

1325
01:32:17,520 --> 01:32:20,960
something that backfires?
This might be the most epic

1326
01:32:20,960 --> 01:32:25,280
backfire in all of history.
Because what they do is they

1327
01:32:25,280 --> 01:32:30,840
send Whitfield to America, where
there's already beginning to be

1328
01:32:30,840 --> 01:32:37,440
some some anti monarch feelings
fomenting in the area.

1329
01:32:38,400 --> 01:32:43,280
Now Franklin, Ben Franklin,
who's perhaps our most skeptical

1330
01:32:43,280 --> 01:32:46,480
founder.
I make the the case that he

1331
01:32:46,480 --> 01:32:50,160
definitely believes in God, even
though he's flawed a little bit

1332
01:32:50,200 --> 01:32:55,800
and a little bit eccentric.
He he he writes in his journal.

1333
01:32:56,040 --> 01:33:00,480
I'm going to hear Whitfield
preached this day.

1334
01:33:01,200 --> 01:33:02,680
And that's his.
That's his entry.

1335
01:33:03,960 --> 01:33:05,920
And he comes back and he makes
another entry.

1336
01:33:06,640 --> 01:33:11,120
And he said, when I went to hear
George Whitfield preach, I had

1337
01:33:11,120 --> 01:33:15,200
determined that he would not get
any money from me.

1338
01:33:16,640 --> 01:33:20,720
But about a half past the hour I
found myself emptying all my

1339
01:33:20,720 --> 01:33:25,160
copper into his plate.
And by the next stroke of his

1340
01:33:25,160 --> 01:33:30,520
oration I emptied all my silver.
And then by the close of his

1341
01:33:30,520 --> 01:33:33,920
sermons I had given him 8
pistolas, which would have been

1342
01:33:33,920 --> 01:33:39,080
Spanish gold coins.
But Franklin was moved by

1343
01:33:39,080 --> 01:33:45,680
Whitfield's preaching because
Whitfield was saying the things

1344
01:33:46,280 --> 01:33:50,360
that the colonists, some of
them, were already starting to

1345
01:33:50,360 --> 01:33:53,320
feel.
Why do we have to go through a

1346
01:33:53,320 --> 01:33:56,280
king?
Is he really appointed by God?

1347
01:33:56,960 --> 01:34:01,800
Do I need to go to a priest to
talk to my God?

1348
01:34:01,800 --> 01:34:06,400
Can I do that on my own?
And so his message fits

1349
01:34:06,400 --> 01:34:11,880
beautifully inside colonial
America during this time.

1350
01:34:13,560 --> 01:34:17,720
Through Whitfield's actions, we
actually see during the

1351
01:34:17,720 --> 01:34:22,640
Revolution that the British put
a hit out on what they termed

1352
01:34:22,640 --> 01:34:28,680
the Black Robe Regiment and they
understood that much of the

1353
01:34:28,680 --> 01:34:33,000
fervor for independence and
liberty were coming from the

1354
01:34:33,000 --> 01:34:36,880
pulpits.
And so people get ready for

1355
01:34:36,880 --> 01:34:43,640
liberty and they become ready
for self governance once they

1356
01:34:43,640 --> 01:34:47,840
seek God firmly in his throne in
their own minds and decide to

1357
01:34:47,840 --> 01:34:50,360
live by his dictates and
precepts.

1358
01:34:51,080 --> 01:34:55,800
And Whitfield becomes, in my
opinion, the most unsung of the

1359
01:34:55,800 --> 01:35:01,040
founding members of of the
American experiment.

1360
01:35:01,320 --> 01:35:05,120
His name doesn't go on any
documents, but his impact is

1361
01:35:05,360 --> 01:35:09,000
felt throughout that
revolutionary period.

1362
01:35:09,920 --> 01:35:12,120
Does anyone else have anything
they'd like to add here?

1363
01:35:12,120 --> 01:35:14,800
This is my last slide for the
night so if anyone's got

1364
01:35:14,800 --> 01:35:17,800
anything to add on this or any
other slide, the floor is yours.

1365
01:35:27,480 --> 01:35:32,440
Kim.
Yeah, I just over the course of

1366
01:35:32,440 --> 01:35:34,720
the last several minutes, I've
had a couple of quotes come to

1367
01:35:34,720 --> 01:35:38,080
mind about personal, about
virtue and personal

1368
01:35:38,080 --> 01:35:40,560
accountability.
And one of them is actually from

1369
01:35:40,560 --> 01:35:43,360
the text from the 5000 year leap
that I think we may have skipped

1370
01:35:43,360 --> 01:35:46,280
over.
It's on page 44 and I just

1371
01:35:46,280 --> 01:35:48,920
really kind of liked it.
It's of course Cicero speaking.

1372
01:35:50,680 --> 01:35:55,360
And he says, however we may
define man, a single definition

1373
01:35:55,360 --> 01:35:58,360
will apply to all.
This is a sufficient proof that

1374
01:35:58,360 --> 01:36:00,560
there is no difference in kind
between men and men.

1375
01:36:00,680 --> 01:36:04,840
In fact, there is no human being
of any race who, if he finds a

1376
01:36:04,840 --> 01:36:11,520
guide, cannot attain to virtue.
And I I like that.

1377
01:36:11,520 --> 01:36:15,240
I like that the idea that that
our young nation needed a

1378
01:36:15,240 --> 01:36:18,880
virtuous people really put the
responsibility on each

1379
01:36:18,880 --> 01:36:23,080
individual's shoulders.
And then the second quote that I

1380
01:36:23,080 --> 01:36:25,360
just wanted to share with the
group is actually from a movie.

1381
01:36:25,360 --> 01:36:27,920
And it's pretty astounding that
Hollywood came up with anything

1382
01:36:27,920 --> 01:36:29,840
like this.
But I like it anyway.

1383
01:36:30,760 --> 01:36:34,840
And the quote is a king may move
a man, a father may claim a son.

1384
01:36:35,440 --> 01:36:38,240
But remember that even when
those who move you be kings or

1385
01:36:38,240 --> 01:36:40,840
men of power, your soul is in
your keeping alone.

1386
01:36:41,320 --> 01:36:44,640
When you stand before God, you
cannot say, but I was told by

1387
01:36:44,640 --> 01:36:48,040
others to do thus or that virtue
was not convenient at the time.

1388
01:36:48,280 --> 01:36:52,600
This will not suffice.
True.

1389
01:36:52,600 --> 01:36:56,520
What movie is that from Tim?
From Kingdom of Heaven back in

1390
01:36:56,520 --> 01:36:58,800
the early 2000s.
Nice.

1391
01:36:58,800 --> 01:37:04,400
OK, No good one.
Thanks, Tim.

1392
01:37:04,480 --> 01:37:06,520
Anybody else have anything you'd
like to add?

1393
01:37:11,520 --> 01:37:14,400
OK.
I'm just real quick.

1394
01:37:14,400 --> 01:37:18,360
So Justin, Justin mentioned it,
but I just think it's probably

1395
01:37:18,360 --> 01:37:23,160
worth reading real quick because
when Alma, when he stepped down

1396
01:37:23,160 --> 01:37:31,480
from the the chief judge seat,
Let's see if I can find it.

1397
01:37:31,520 --> 01:37:34,400
I thought it was Alma 30, but
maybe it's 30.

1398
01:37:35,480 --> 01:37:39,440
But he he says, Oh yeah, here it
is Alma chapter 31, verse 5.

1399
01:37:39,440 --> 01:37:42,160
And now is the preaching of the
word had a great tendency to

1400
01:37:42,160 --> 01:37:45,040
lead the people to do that which
was just.

1401
01:37:45,040 --> 01:37:47,080
Yeah.
It had a more powerful effect

1402
01:37:47,080 --> 01:37:50,200
upon the minds of the people
than the sword or anything else

1403
01:37:50,480 --> 01:37:53,320
which had happened to unto them.
Therefore, Alma thought it was

1404
01:37:53,320 --> 01:37:57,040
expedient that they should try
the virtue of the Word of God.

1405
01:38:00,680 --> 01:38:05,720
Nice.
Anybody else have anything

1406
01:38:05,720 --> 01:38:07,720
they'd like to say in the
response or?

1407
01:38:10,200 --> 01:38:11,800
I guess I'll add one other
quote.

1408
01:38:11,800 --> 01:38:14,400
I can't remember who said this.
It was in the Preach My Gospel

1409
01:38:14,400 --> 01:38:18,200
manual when I was a missionary,
but it says true doctrine

1410
01:38:18,200 --> 01:38:23,960
understood changes behavior far
faster than a study of behavior

1411
01:38:24,080 --> 01:38:27,640
changes behavior.
And I think that that's this

1412
01:38:27,640 --> 01:38:30,480
Whitfield.
You know, when people, when you

1413
01:38:30,480 --> 01:38:34,080
can activate the light of Christ
within individuals and you can

1414
01:38:34,080 --> 01:38:37,360
help them obtain at least a
portion of the Spirit of God,

1415
01:38:37,720 --> 01:38:41,120
they become patriots rather than
animals.

1416
01:38:42,360 --> 01:38:45,520
Absolutely.
You know, I want to say one

1417
01:38:45,520 --> 01:38:49,120
other thing in regards to
Whitfield here and this is where

1418
01:38:49,120 --> 01:38:52,040
I'll wrap up for the night and
just turn it over to you guys.

1419
01:38:53,560 --> 01:38:59,120
But I think all of us, if we're
sitting here in this class, we

1420
01:38:59,120 --> 01:39:01,360
know things aren't what they're
supposed to be.

1421
01:39:02,960 --> 01:39:05,360
Because let's face it, there's a
ton of other things we could do

1422
01:39:05,360 --> 01:39:09,080
on a Monday night other than
jump online and talk about a

1423
01:39:09,080 --> 01:39:11,200
book that tries to illuminate
the principles of the

1424
01:39:11,200 --> 01:39:15,040
Constitution.
And I'm guessing that at one

1425
01:39:15,040 --> 01:39:18,960
point or another, all of us have
said the words, Can we just

1426
01:39:18,960 --> 01:39:23,480
clone George Washington or
Thomas Jefferson to see if we

1427
01:39:23,480 --> 01:39:29,600
can't get this thing right?
We keep looking for guys who

1428
01:39:29,600 --> 01:39:33,840
were the founders, Washington,
Franklin, Jefferson, Adams.

1429
01:39:35,000 --> 01:39:36,600
Go down the list.
Madison.

1430
01:39:38,360 --> 01:39:42,720
The problem is, and it took me
years to realize this, the

1431
01:39:42,720 --> 01:39:46,080
reason we don't have that guys
is because we're not George

1432
01:39:46,080 --> 01:39:49,920
Whitfield.
Whitfield has to come before

1433
01:39:49,920 --> 01:39:55,120
Washington now.
If we have that recognition, we

1434
01:39:55,120 --> 01:40:00,840
now have to look at our children
and say, OK, it's going to have

1435
01:40:00,840 --> 01:40:04,000
to be them, but what does that
mean for us?

1436
01:40:04,360 --> 01:40:08,080
That means we have to be
Whitfield to our children.

1437
01:40:08,480 --> 01:40:13,440
We have to be the ones to to
evangelize them, so to speak,

1438
01:40:13,840 --> 01:40:18,560
and not only the Gospel.
But how the gospel then should

1439
01:40:18,560 --> 01:40:22,280
inform how it is.
We should both govern and be

1440
01:40:22,280 --> 01:40:27,120
governed.
But we will not get to the point

1441
01:40:27,560 --> 01:40:30,800
of seeing an army of
Washington's and an army of

1442
01:40:30,800 --> 01:40:33,440
Jefferson's and an army of
Franklin's and an army of

1443
01:40:33,720 --> 01:40:35,600
Madison's.
Because I really do believe it

1444
01:40:35,600 --> 01:40:38,760
will be a lot of people this
time around instead of just a

1445
01:40:38,760 --> 01:40:42,080
few.
But in order to have those kind

1446
01:40:42,080 --> 01:40:47,040
of people, it's going to require
us to be Whitfield for them

1447
01:40:47,040 --> 01:40:51,520
right now.
Does anyone have anything else

1448
01:40:51,520 --> 01:40:53,680
they'd like to add before we
wrap up for the night?

1449
01:41:02,480 --> 01:41:07,040
Perfect.
All right then, with that, let's

1450
01:41:07,040 --> 01:41:11,200
see Corey, can I get you to give
us a closing prayer, brother?

1451
01:41:20,750 --> 01:41:27,480
Yeah, one second there.
All right, dear Father in

1452
01:41:27,480 --> 01:41:31,920
heaven, we're grateful unto thee
today for this time to gather

1453
01:41:31,920 --> 01:41:36,000
together and just have a little
conversation about the history

1454
01:41:36,000 --> 01:41:39,480
of our country and the
principles that have brought us

1455
01:41:39,480 --> 01:41:42,800
religious freedom and the
freedom to kind of express

1456
01:41:42,800 --> 01:41:48,040
ourselves and develop into a
prosperous country.

1457
01:41:48,840 --> 01:41:51,560
Pray that we'll be able to
understand these principles

1458
01:41:51,560 --> 01:41:54,760
better and uphold them better
than we have.

1459
01:41:54,760 --> 01:41:58,560
And I ask a special blessing on
everyone here that's attending

1460
01:41:58,880 --> 01:42:06,600
that we will all feel the
guidance as we try to make sense

1461
01:42:06,600 --> 01:42:11,600
of these principles.
And that will be effective in

1462
01:42:11,600 --> 01:42:16,280
sharing them with our family and
friends and be able to develop

1463
01:42:16,280 --> 01:42:20,600
these into things that will help
create more of a Zion community

1464
01:42:20,600 --> 01:42:30,400
and protect us more in our in
creating justice for ourselves

1465
01:42:30,400 --> 01:42:33,880
and for others moving forward.
Just ask for those blessings to

1466
01:42:33,880 --> 01:42:39,040
be with us here tonight and over
the next while as we ponder and

1467
01:42:39,040 --> 01:42:42,000
we learn these topics.
And we say this in the name of

1468
01:42:42,000 --> 01:42:43,040
Jesus Christ, Amen.