April 4, 2026

Episode #229: Breaking The Chains of Addiction W/Zack Nielson

Show Notes
Transcript

One of the things that is affecting our society today is addiction and statistics say if there is not someone in your family that struggles with addiction then you know someone who is. It drives many of today's social ills such as Divorce, Crime, Neglect, Parent and Child Conflict, Poverty, and even Modern-Day Slavery. On this episode I have Zack Nielson on the podcast. I had Zack on the podcast just a few weeks back. One of things that Zack is passionate about is helping others overcome and heal from addiction and he does this by volunteering at a local support group. During the course of our conversation Zack and I cover how he came to be associated with the program helping folks overcome addiction, the physiology of addiction, what type of triggers exist that causes relapses and addictive behavior, the difference between guilt and shame, how the program that Zack volunteers at works, the principles that have proven to help people overcome addiction, and how the Savior and His Atonement works in helping folks overcome their pain and addiction.

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Zach, your background too, bro.
Yes, Sir.

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Yes, Sir.
Well, last time we got a little

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bit of your back story and, and
that that was great.

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I've been getting great reviews
off of off of that.

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I've I've had several people
call me telling me that one hit

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hit really well.
So good on you and Michaela for

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that.
And dude, you're, you're

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counting down the days to being
married.

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Yes, I am.
And I am so thankful for the

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Lord and I am so excited.
It's it's, I'm glad to start my

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next chapter.
It's going to be very good.

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Absolutely.
Absolutely.

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So did you make like one of
those little paper mache chains

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that you just like tear a link
off every day till you get get

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to the event?
Honestly, I probably should.

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I I do like look at the calendar
daily to kind of remind myself

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that I am getting closer and
it's easy.

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It's, it's interesting to see
like some days will be super

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fast and then some will be super
dragging on.

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So, and finding a wedding is
very interesting.

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This is my second time going
through that.

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And it's, yeah, it's, it's been
interesting.

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Weddings are expensive.
So expensive.

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So do you want to do you want to
hear how Amber and I-30 years

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ago now decided on being
married?

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How?
This will this will be

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hilarious.
So I joined the LDS church and

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my mom's like, yeah, you can't
stay here and do that.

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You got to go, right.
So Amber's mom had this shed

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Outback of where they lived and
they lived on a little bit of

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land.
And so I went and I just kind of

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spruced up that shed and lived
out there and just finished off

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school and, you know, would go
to church and that sort of thing

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out there.
And one day I came home and

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Amber was at the table with her
mom.

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I was, I, I was done with
school.

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I was coming home from work and
Amber and her mom were sitting

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at the table and they kind of
had their calendars out.

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And this is before cell phone.
So it's like actual calendars,

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right?
Right.

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And I'm just tired.
I'm beat.

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It'd been a long day at work.
I, you know, a lot to do.

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And I come walking in and Amber
and her mom are at the table.

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Those calendars and I'm like,
what are you girls doing?

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And Amber goes, hey, do you want
to get married over Thanksgiving

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weekend?
A bunch of my family's going to

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be here.
And I thought she was joking,

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bro.
I was like, yeah, that sounds

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great, right?
So I go to bed that night, wake

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up the next morning.
I had just a few classes that

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day and then went right to work
and like finished everything up

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at a fairly decent hour.
Like it was like 3 or 4:00 in

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the in the afternoon and I'm
like, sweet, I can go home and

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take a nap and rest up.
You know, I got everything put

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to bed.
I come walking in the house and

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Amber and her mom are sitting at
the table with a wedding

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planner.
And I'm like, oh, they were

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serious.
That's funny.

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And that's, that's kind of how
it happened, right?

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I mean, I, I feel bad there was
no romantic proposal or anything

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else.
It was just kind of like very

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functional, right?
Like hey, everyone's going to be

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here anyway.
And so, yeah, we threw, threw a

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wedding together in three weeks
and that was, that was kind of

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how it happened.
So I, I, I never had the

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traditional, you know.
Thing Get a wedding venue, get a

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cake, get all these.
Things, Right, right.

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You know, I did get a tux, you
know, we did get a cake, all

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that other stuff.
And I did do the cake tasting,

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which was my favorite part of
the experience, right?

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I mean, go other than the
wedding itself, you know, other

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than that, I learned to smile
and not a whole bunch Zach like

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I love that color.
That color looks great.

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And dude, I can't even dress
myself who am IA kid anybody

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that I'm color coordinated.
So no, it's it's good times.

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Enjoy this.
This is this is awesome.

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I am so happy for the for both
of you.

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But so you reached back out to
me and said you wanted to do a

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podcast on a pretty heavy
subject.

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And it actually was kind of an
answer to prayer because I had

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been knowing that I needed to
broach this subject at some

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point because it is something
that's affecting Mormons no

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matter where they're at.
I don't care if you're in the

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LDS Church.
I don't care if you're a

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fundamentalist.
I don't care if if you're, you

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know, in one of the, the, the
groups that Emma kind of

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started, they're, they're
affecting all of us, all the,

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you know, especially our youth.
And we're going to talk today

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about addiction.
And Zach, this is something that

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that you have you work with with
addiction recovery, right?

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I mean, it's what you do for a
living.

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So for the last 3 1/2 to four
years now I'd have to do the

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math again.
I have been a Co facilitator for

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a group for the LDS church on
addiction recovery.

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The times kind of change
depending on what time it was,

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but as of right now it is
currently Wednesdays at one of

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the ward houses and I'll send
you the address so that if

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people that are in Salt Lake
want to drop by then they can

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just at 7:30 PM.
And the class's name has also

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changed throughout the years,
which has been pretty

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interesting.
It's healing through Jesus,

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which I really like that talk,
just cause of what some of the

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subjects that we talk about.
But yeah.

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So do you want to kind of let me
go through my kind of journey,

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how I started that?
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

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But before we go there, I need
to ask you a question 'cause I

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don't want you jeopardizing
anything and I'll maybe edit

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this part out, but are you
going, is there any possibility

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that you're going to like lose
the ability to help out there if

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you're on a fundamentalist
podcast?

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I don't think so.
I have been very upfront about

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my religious faith and I've been
very respective of everybody

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else's faith in it.
I answer questions if they have

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it, but everybody's just become
kind of like, oh, this is just

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kind of a person.
And we get people that aren't

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LDS faith come in from time to
time.

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This is for.
This is just for everybody.

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No, that's good.
I just wanted to be sure.

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I I wanted to cover that base.
It's awesome that the church is

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is allowing you to work with
them in that way, even though

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they're aware of your religious
beliefs.

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So I think that's that's
fantastic and spectacular.

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I just wanted to be sure before
we moved on here.

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Yeah.
So what?

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What made you decide to get
involved with this right?

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Helping people recover from from
addiction.

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OK, so when so I got into
addiction, unfortunately at the

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age of 12 and became off and on
throughout years trying to fight

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it, trying to really get nitty
gritty.

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Eventually a good friend of my
of my family, he suggests this

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particular group that was part
of and this individual that that

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did run the group at the time.
He is a public figure and he is,

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he says his name all the time.
So he's not gonna I think he's

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fine if I put his name in his
name is Christian Smith.

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He works at Wasatch recovery.
Absolutely amazing, amazing

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individual.
Like he is so amazing in how

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he's helped people and dedicated
his whole life to helping

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addicts he's had.
I wanna, I can't remember how

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many years, he said, but he has
been addicted to just about

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everything under the sun, from
cocaine to pornography to all

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kinds of things.
And he says this on multiple

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podcasts too.
But he is just an amazing human

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being.
And so he just, he saw this

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problem in his in his warden.
So he decided to start putting

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together this group and, and
then so I start coming to the

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group and pretty soon this is
before really the bishops and

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the state presidents were really
involved with his particular

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group.
They had other groups, but they

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wasn't right.
They weren't under this one

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specifically.
And then they're like, hey, we

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kind of need to manage this a
little bit.

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So then they started to give him
a a calling position with

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another person and that another
person that came in would often

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get switched out every like
every year and a half or so.

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And so Christian was like, Hey,
I kind of need somebody that's

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here all the time that knows the
lessons, that kind of knows

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everything came up to me one day
as like, Hey, you know your

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stuff, you're doing really well
and you comprehend a lot of

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this.
You want to start teaching, you

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want to start Co facilitating
these classes and it'll be you

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and then whoever the church
decides and then me and then

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we're just going to sometimes I
can't be there and the other

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person can.
Sometimes we both can't.

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And you seem to be here those
times anyways.

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So do you want to just kind of
take over those lessons?

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And I was like, yeah, I'll try
it.

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And it was very interesting, the
spirit about everything, because

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this was like the second or
third time I had done it.

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And the spirit was just
overwhelming with this is you.

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This is what you were born to
do.

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Like I'm, I'm a firm believer
that everybody has a, a purpose

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in life and finding it is
crucial.

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Somebody else that I know and
really close to he ended up

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everyone around him said that
you should go be a nurse.

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And he's like, no, don't want to
be a nurse.

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Don't want anything to do with
that.

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And then later it terms to find
out he did end up becoming a

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nurse and he was complaining to
certain people that you have to

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go and visit all the different
nursing fields before you

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determine where you want to go.
And this individual went into

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helping, being a midwife and
helping and helping deliver

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children.
And he's a big dude.

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Like he's a relatively bigger
dude.

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And he's like, I'm going to hate
this.

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This is bull crap that they make
me do this and all this other

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stuff.
Then the next time I hear from

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him, he's like, I really think I
found my calling.

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This person isn't religious in
the normal sense, like you and

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me and anything like that.
And it's like to to watch him go

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from absolutely kind of
rejecting the idea to fully

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embracing it and fully accepting
like, hey, this is something

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that I absolutely love and
absolutely want to cherish and

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everything.
That was an amazing experience

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and it kind of opened my eyes.
Like this is very similar to me.

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If you told me when I was
graduating high school, like,

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hey, you would play a part in
this, I would have been like, no

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way.
There's no way I'm dedicating

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one night a week and constantly
going doing this, this, you're

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crazy.
But then I remember walking out

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of the building that that
weekend, it was just a whole

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flood of emotion and like
beautiful energy in it.

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And what's ironic is after that,
the spirit constantly told me to

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be quiet and to just listen.
And that's something that I had

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to really overcome is when that
was one of the biggest things

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that Christian had taught me is
when you're going through these,

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you have so many different
lessons and so many different

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things.
You don't know what everybody

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needs.
So you really need to make sure

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that you just listen to the
spirits and figure out where the

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spirit wants to take you through
it.

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And and that kind of helped me a
little bit when when I was more

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in thrall to my addiction and
kind of not going these classes

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and everything before then.
It was interesting how my

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addiction made me a spiritual as
I am.

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That's one thing that's very
interesting about this is when

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you have these kinds of
addictions, or any addiction

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really, it's almost like God is
holding the key behind his back

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and he's saying in order to get
it, you got to come through me.

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And that's what really today I I
don't think I would be near as

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religious as I am without that.
Right.

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00:12:55,760 --> 00:13:00,200
You know, there, I want to be
careful here how I phrased this

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sentence.
Nobody should go out and get

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addicted to anything, right?
I'm not saying that, but and and

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this is true on a bigger level
than just addiction, right?

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Yeah.
We're the product essentially of

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of two things, three things.
The love of God, the love of our

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parents, and the love of people
around us and the trials we

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endure.
Yeah.

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And they become a, a central
part in who we are in many ways.

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As I look back at most of my
personal spiritual advancements,

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they kind of come for the most
part from two places, the temple

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and the hospital, because both
of those places are going to to

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cause you to reflect quite a
bit.

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And you know, usually if you're
going to the hospital, it's a

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00:13:59,720 --> 00:14:05,280
trial, right?
And so those trials become so

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integral in who we are that
sometimes I don't think that we

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look at them quite frankly with
the type of gratitude we need.

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And look, our trials are tailor
fitted to us.

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Now back to your story.
So you go there as kind of a

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someone looking for help and
then because you're there and

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you develop, you start to be
able to share a little bit, you

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00:14:31,720 --> 00:14:35,080
start feeling comfortable.
And when you're, you're

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00:14:35,080 --> 00:14:38,400
eventually asked if you would
like to be a facilitator to

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that.
Yeah.

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00:14:40,920 --> 00:14:47,440
And I do have some things that
here I want to kind of say like

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00:14:48,360 --> 00:14:51,480
kind of skipped over a little
bit of, you know, why does this

247
00:14:51,480 --> 00:14:56,400
pertain to me?
Like is, is this not a problem

248
00:14:56,400 --> 00:14:58,640
in fundamentalism or anything
like that?

249
00:14:59,640 --> 00:15:02,040
I just have some statistics, if
I can share that real quick.

250
00:15:02,480 --> 00:15:11,160
So Florida did a study and they,
they predicted that 70% of men

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will visit a porn site within a
month of the United States. 70%.

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And also one also thing, this is
kind of one thing that really

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triggered me wanting to reach
out to you a little bit about

254
00:15:27,360 --> 00:15:32,920
this is the porn industry,
especially with AI and the

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00:15:33,440 --> 00:15:37,160
algorithms that they develop is
so advanced that they're even

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getting women.
I should have put the year on.

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I want to say it was 2018, maybe
maybe later than that.

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00:15:45,120 --> 00:15:48,680
They predicted that one in six
women have a porn addiction.

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00:15:49,360 --> 00:15:51,120
So they're getting women too on
this.

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It used to be that was just a
men dominated addiction.

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Now I have my therapist friends
'cause I talk to them a lot.

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If I have questions or anything
like that, I go to them and

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00:16:02,000 --> 00:16:04,800
they're saying it's, it's now
becoming equal.

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00:16:05,080 --> 00:16:11,040
It's now getting so bad that the
algorithms can protect, can

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00:16:11,040 --> 00:16:17,320
predict whether you're man or or
or woman on how to keep you

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addicted to these things.
That's the prop.

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00:16:23,760 --> 00:16:26,000
That's the seriousness of the
situation.

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00:16:26,720 --> 00:16:29,840
You know when when I was a kid,
if you wanted to get a hold of

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smut, you had your you had to
work right?

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00:16:33,080 --> 00:16:37,200
Like you had to go find the wino
in front of the little mini Mart

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00:16:37,200 --> 00:16:39,160
and offer to buy him.
A.

272
00:16:39,160 --> 00:16:40,960
Bottle of wine.
If he'd go in and buy you a

273
00:16:40,960 --> 00:16:44,840
dirty magazine, right?
It's not that way anymore.

274
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It comes.
It comes to our kids, right?

275
00:16:48,800 --> 00:16:52,520
And certainly there are things
that we can do in our homes

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00:16:52,520 --> 00:16:55,360
like, you know, parental
blockers, those sorts of things.

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00:16:55,880 --> 00:17:00,400
But as you were just stating,
those are only effective to a

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00:17:00,400 --> 00:17:06,200
point because the the
algorithms, the guys who are

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00:17:06,200 --> 00:17:10,000
pushing this this crap are so
smart.

280
00:17:10,640 --> 00:17:13,240
On.
How it's going to to work around

281
00:17:13,240 --> 00:17:17,119
those blocks and make no
mistake, right?

282
00:17:17,119 --> 00:17:20,440
I was doing a little bit of
research on this before you and

283
00:17:20,440 --> 00:17:25,599
I jumped on throughout the week.
It, it absolutely has all the

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00:17:25,599 --> 00:17:28,880
hallmarks of any other sort of
substance that you get a, you

285
00:17:28,880 --> 00:17:32,440
get hooked on, there's a
dopamine release there.

286
00:17:32,440 --> 00:17:36,000
And then after that release,
your, your dopamine is, is

287
00:17:36,000 --> 00:17:41,960
depleted, right?
And your instinct is to, to go

288
00:17:41,960 --> 00:17:44,680
find that dopamine hit from
somewhere else.

289
00:17:45,160 --> 00:17:48,600
For those who aren't familiar
with dopamine, dopamine is a

290
00:17:48,600 --> 00:17:53,520
chemical in your brain that is
released naturally when you fall

291
00:17:53,520 --> 00:17:57,600
in love, when your child is
born, you know, even spiritual

292
00:17:57,600 --> 00:18:02,280
experiences, dopamine gets
released into the brain.

293
00:18:03,920 --> 00:18:10,360
And So what, what, what certain
drugs will do what, what, what

294
00:18:10,360 --> 00:18:13,000
porn does?
Is it it, it releases it, it

295
00:18:13,000 --> 00:18:17,080
causes a dopamine release and
your brain has a certain amount

296
00:18:17,080 --> 00:18:18,600
of it.
It always keeps producing it.

297
00:18:18,600 --> 00:18:22,400
But when, when there's a
dopamine dump, then you almost

298
00:18:22,400 --> 00:18:25,080
kind of start to go into a
little bit of a depression,

299
00:18:25,760 --> 00:18:26,200
right?
Can I?

300
00:18:26,200 --> 00:18:28,480
Explain that a little bit, yeah.
Please do.

301
00:18:28,640 --> 00:18:32,080
So this is something that I like
to teach and I've even been

302
00:18:32,080 --> 00:18:35,200
invited to even teach middle
schoolers this from time to

303
00:18:35,200 --> 00:18:37,720
time.
That's something that Christian

304
00:18:37,720 --> 00:18:40,280
will do and I love that.
But the way I like to explain

305
00:18:40,280 --> 00:18:43,280
it, if you make your hand like a
fist with your thumb in the

306
00:18:43,280 --> 00:18:48,800
inside of your of your, and this
is your brain, this is going to

307
00:18:48,800 --> 00:18:51,960
be more your prefrontal cortex
and your thumb is acting where

308
00:18:52,120 --> 00:18:54,760
the dopamine dumps happen, which
is the amygdala.

309
00:18:55,240 --> 00:18:59,880
And what's interesting is that
these things can't be in control

310
00:18:59,880 --> 00:19:02,480
at the same time.
It's usually the midbrain or the

311
00:19:02,680 --> 00:19:05,480
OR the prefrontal cortex that's
activate at the same time.

312
00:19:05,920 --> 00:19:10,600
Your amygdala is in charge of
reproduction, getting food and

313
00:19:10,600 --> 00:19:14,240
all these other things.
It's a a lot of people have

314
00:19:14,400 --> 00:19:16,600
acquitted dopamine to be the
happy hormone.

315
00:19:16,640 --> 00:19:19,880
It's actually kind of more of
the pursuit hormone.

316
00:19:20,240 --> 00:19:24,480
They did a a discovery in rats
where they actually removed the

317
00:19:24,480 --> 00:19:26,800
receptors that produced
dopamine.

318
00:19:27,080 --> 00:19:30,360
And what they found out is the
rats would actually starve to

319
00:19:30,360 --> 00:19:33,800
death unless they put the food
right in their mouth and then

320
00:19:33,800 --> 00:19:37,040
they began chewing it.
So dopamine it, it plays an

321
00:19:37,040 --> 00:19:39,720
incredible important role in us
as society.

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00:19:40,320 --> 00:19:46,680
The problem is we are becoming a
society where you don't need to

323
00:19:46,680 --> 00:19:50,840
chase things anymore, and we're
designed to chase things.

324
00:19:50,840 --> 00:19:54,480
We're designed to really go
things like, I like to say like

325
00:19:55,400 --> 00:19:59,240
your parent, not your parents,
your great, great grandparents

326
00:19:59,640 --> 00:20:04,320
barely got a warm shower.
We're used to taking cold

327
00:20:04,320 --> 00:20:07,360
showers, and you and I are very
familiar with cold plunges and

328
00:20:07,360 --> 00:20:12,800
the great effects that has.
Our society is moving toward a

329
00:20:12,800 --> 00:20:16,480
softer and softer human being,
and we're not designed for that.

330
00:20:17,080 --> 00:20:19,840
So then we start, we start
seeking after these different

331
00:20:19,840 --> 00:20:24,000
things and a lot of people don't
understand that.

332
00:20:25,000 --> 00:20:26,600
And this is going to sound
crazy.

333
00:20:27,280 --> 00:20:31,440
So for those of you at home,
bear with me a little bit, but

334
00:20:32,320 --> 00:20:36,720
your pornography is, or any
addiction, any addiction at all,

335
00:20:36,720 --> 00:20:43,640
whether it be crack cocaine,
opioids, or even eating, stress

336
00:20:43,640 --> 00:20:47,200
eating and that kind of stuff,
any addiction whatsoever is

337
00:20:47,200 --> 00:20:52,240
actually your solution.
It's a bad solution, but it's

338
00:20:52,240 --> 00:20:57,320
your solution to the problem.
You know, he brought up a good

339
00:20:57,320 --> 00:21:04,080
point there with, with, you
know, the pursuit as I've looked

340
00:21:04,080 --> 00:21:09,400
around, right?
That to me seems to be the

341
00:21:09,400 --> 00:21:13,200
problem.
Our problem now isn't a problem

342
00:21:13,200 --> 00:21:16,240
that I think mankind has ever
had to deal with before.

343
00:21:16,760 --> 00:21:19,400
One other.
Time.

344
00:21:20,880 --> 00:21:24,840
No of being so abundant.
This is the days of of right

345
00:21:24,840 --> 00:21:27,000
before Noah's flood.
Right.

346
00:21:27,280 --> 00:21:29,680
Amanda, he has only dealt with
this one other time to our

347
00:21:29,680 --> 00:21:31,360
knowledge.
Right.

348
00:21:31,680 --> 00:21:37,880
We, we're, we're in a stage now
where where our, our problems

349
00:21:37,880 --> 00:21:40,680
are not a problem problem of
scarcity.

350
00:21:40,680 --> 00:21:44,120
It's a problem of overabundance
of affluity, right?

351
00:21:46,480 --> 00:21:51,000
We now have more access to
calorie dense food than we ever

352
00:21:51,000 --> 00:21:54,160
have before, right?
And much of it crap.

353
00:21:54,720 --> 00:21:58,560
And so people are no longer
eating because they're hungry.

354
00:21:58,560 --> 00:22:00,560
Some, you know, and look, I'm
guilty of this.

355
00:22:00,680 --> 00:22:01,720
I you know.
Same here.

356
00:22:01,960 --> 00:22:05,000
I'm I'm very guilty too.
Eat, eat when you're bored,

357
00:22:05,000 --> 00:22:06,880
right?
And that's, that's a problem

358
00:22:07,280 --> 00:22:10,680
because we're, we're over
consuming calories.

359
00:22:10,680 --> 00:22:12,720
We have that chase mechanism,
right?

360
00:22:13,200 --> 00:22:17,280
And, and look, our, our hunter
gatherer ancestors, I'm not a,

361
00:22:17,280 --> 00:22:19,840
I'm not a believer in evolution.
I want to get that out of the

362
00:22:19,840 --> 00:22:24,280
way, but it's obvious that there
was a hunter gatherer, gatherer

363
00:22:24,280 --> 00:22:26,680
kind of lifestyle.
After there's a, there's a

364
00:22:26,680 --> 00:22:29,760
behavior where people do devolve
into that.

365
00:22:29,760 --> 00:22:33,880
Like for example, you have a lot
of the Native Americans, they I

366
00:22:33,880 --> 00:22:37,440
recently read a book on on a
lifestyle of that they had and

367
00:22:37,440 --> 00:22:41,760
they would have to leave for a
day or 2GO kill a Buffalo with

368
00:22:41,760 --> 00:22:44,440
an entire hunting party, bring
that back.

369
00:22:44,440 --> 00:22:46,760
And then the women would do it
for food and they'd be off

370
00:22:46,760 --> 00:22:49,600
getting the next Buffalo.
And it's just a constant cycle

371
00:22:49,600 --> 00:22:51,880
of that.
It was, it was a constant cycle.

372
00:22:51,880 --> 00:22:55,280
And so, you know, you had to be
careful about what targets you

373
00:22:55,280 --> 00:22:57,840
were picking, right?
You had to, you had to kind of

374
00:22:57,840 --> 00:23:01,280
calculate, is this worth the,
the energy I'm going to expend?

375
00:23:01,280 --> 00:23:04,920
Is it going to be a payoff?
And now we don't, you know, and

376
00:23:04,920 --> 00:23:07,200
like you were saying, you're
leaving for two days to go hunt

377
00:23:07,200 --> 00:23:09,880
a Buffalo or an animal to bring
it back.

378
00:23:11,280 --> 00:23:13,480
Calories were hard to come by
and they're not now.

379
00:23:13,600 --> 00:23:18,360
Now that has spilled over into
two other things that like you

380
00:23:18,360 --> 00:23:22,040
were just mentioning, right?
Addiction, booze, drugs, porn,

381
00:23:22,040 --> 00:23:27,600
whatever it is, that same sort
of scarcity mentality still

382
00:23:27,600 --> 00:23:30,960
lives in our brain, and we're
programmed to take advantage of

383
00:23:30,960 --> 00:23:34,360
it whenever it's there.
And the problem becomes when

384
00:23:34,360 --> 00:23:39,280
it's so abundant, there's no
valve subconsciously to shut it

385
00:23:39,280 --> 00:23:40,680
off.
You have to be deliberate.

386
00:23:40,680 --> 00:23:41,600
Go ahead, Zach.
Oh yeah.

387
00:23:41,960 --> 00:23:45,400
There's another thing too, and
that this is with AI and coming

388
00:23:45,400 --> 00:23:49,560
forward with this, is that
there's a extreme rise in AI

389
00:23:49,560 --> 00:23:51,560
girlfriends.
I believe it was like the first

390
00:23:51,560 --> 00:23:55,160
week of of someone developing a
specific AI girlfriend.

391
00:23:55,160 --> 00:24:01,160
There was over 100,000 signups
in the first week and it's like,

392
00:24:01,400 --> 00:24:06,200
holy cow, you, you don't have a
relationship with anything at

393
00:24:06,200 --> 00:24:08,560
that point.
You, you're getting all your

394
00:24:08,560 --> 00:24:13,680
needs met and it's so unhealthy
and it's the brain.

395
00:24:14,840 --> 00:24:17,800
The brain can't function at that
point.

396
00:24:17,800 --> 00:24:21,840
There's a, there's a really good
podcast.

397
00:24:22,640 --> 00:24:27,400
What's her name?
I'll find it here in a moment,

398
00:24:27,640 --> 00:24:33,240
but basically she talks about
how you have your, your brain

399
00:24:33,240 --> 00:24:36,280
wants to obtain homeostasis.
This is where everything's

400
00:24:36,280 --> 00:24:40,320
healthy and it can take short
periods of bursts, dopamine

401
00:24:40,320 --> 00:24:44,800
dumps along with other things.
And there's a pleasure portion

402
00:24:44,800 --> 00:24:48,080
and then there's a pain portion.
And if you push down the

403
00:24:48,080 --> 00:24:51,160
pleasure, then you're going to
raise the pain and the brain

404
00:24:51,160 --> 00:24:53,720
wants to return.
So then what it does is it'll

405
00:24:53,720 --> 00:24:57,800
put rocks and stuff in it and
then it'll actually shoot past

406
00:24:57,800 --> 00:24:59,640
your pleasure.
This is like when you drink too

407
00:24:59,640 --> 00:25:05,680
much alcohol and you have a
hangover or like for porn

408
00:25:05,680 --> 00:25:10,720
addicts, it's very hard shame,
which we'll get into a little

409
00:25:10,720 --> 00:25:13,840
bit later.
But basically your brain is

410
00:25:13,840 --> 00:25:17,120
going to stay like that for a
period of time and then it will

411
00:25:17,120 --> 00:25:20,960
slowly start to take those rocks
off and then it'll start to do

412
00:25:21,000 --> 00:25:22,640
it'll start to return to
homeostasis.

413
00:25:22,920 --> 00:25:27,040
The problem with it though, is
people will start to, excuse me,

414
00:25:27,120 --> 00:25:31,800
they'll they'll overload and
have the dopamine dump, then

415
00:25:31,800 --> 00:25:35,080
they'll start to go down and
then they'll slam it back down

416
00:25:35,080 --> 00:25:39,280
with more and more dopamine
looking at porn or eating or

417
00:25:39,280 --> 00:25:41,720
anything like that.
And so then the body has to do

418
00:25:41,720 --> 00:25:45,880
more rocks on this side and it
takes more time to take those

419
00:25:45,880 --> 00:25:47,600
rocks off.
This is how you have the

420
00:25:47,600 --> 00:25:50,080
withdrawals.
This is how you have a lot of

421
00:25:50,080 --> 00:25:55,200
different addictions that become
like, you need other substances

422
00:25:55,200 --> 00:26:01,200
to actually feel normal because
eventually what happens is the

423
00:26:01,200 --> 00:26:04,120
body will start taking away
those pain.

424
00:26:04,200 --> 00:26:07,160
I mean, those pleasure receptors
in your brain, they have

425
00:26:07,160 --> 00:26:10,120
neurons.
It's like a plug and they'll

426
00:26:10,120 --> 00:26:12,680
cover the outlets.
So you can't, you can't plug in

427
00:26:12,680 --> 00:26:16,560
anymore.
And so then you need a bigger

428
00:26:16,560 --> 00:26:21,560
and bigger fix in order to like
push that plug in and force it

429
00:26:21,560 --> 00:26:24,160
in.
And that just causes even more

430
00:26:24,160 --> 00:26:30,160
problems as you go on, which is
why addiction is so it's so hard

431
00:26:30,160 --> 00:26:33,560
for that.
What used to happen is you used

432
00:26:33,560 --> 00:26:36,160
to have, like we were talking
earlier, it used to have pain

433
00:26:36,160 --> 00:26:38,880
associated with getting it.
You had to go out.

434
00:26:38,960 --> 00:26:43,200
I believe it was like 85% of
marriages in the 1950s, if I

435
00:26:43,200 --> 00:26:46,080
remember right, were found at
dances.

436
00:26:46,520 --> 00:26:49,640
So you had, yeah, dancing dance
socials.

437
00:26:49,760 --> 00:26:51,520
So you had to learn how to
dance.

438
00:26:51,520 --> 00:26:55,200
You had to get the courage to
ask the girl how to dance.

439
00:26:55,200 --> 00:26:57,920
You had to understand that
you're probably going to get

440
00:26:57,920 --> 00:27:03,240
rejected a couple times.
And so you have all these steps

441
00:27:03,480 --> 00:27:08,080
that in order to get the girl,
and now that's been completely

442
00:27:08,080 --> 00:27:10,960
taken away from society.
You have these dating apps, you

443
00:27:10,960 --> 00:27:17,360
have these atrocious porn sites,
now the AI girlfriends, and now

444
00:27:17,360 --> 00:27:20,600
you have all these things that
have removed that.

445
00:27:20,920 --> 00:27:24,520
So now what's funny is it works
in opposite too.

446
00:27:25,240 --> 00:27:26,960
This is represented in the cold
plunge.

447
00:27:26,960 --> 00:27:30,920
Is the cold plunge.
You get basically as much

448
00:27:30,920 --> 00:27:35,160
dopamine dump as a shot of
cocaine, but because there's so

449
00:27:35,160 --> 00:27:39,760
much pain involved, it actually
offsets it to where your body

450
00:27:39,760 --> 00:27:43,160
will actually put rocks on the
pleasure side instead of the

451
00:27:43,160 --> 00:27:46,200
pain side.
And you'll actually experience a

452
00:27:46,200 --> 00:27:49,960
better pleasure throughout the
day because you've gone through

453
00:27:49,960 --> 00:27:54,000
that pain.
And so that's something that we

454
00:27:54,000 --> 00:27:55,920
as a society have just been
losing.

455
00:27:55,920 --> 00:28:00,640
And so now you kind of need to
induce hardships in your life in

456
00:28:00,640 --> 00:28:04,160
order to put rocks on the paint.
Now, I'm not talking about,

457
00:28:04,160 --> 00:28:07,560
like, don't just do something
just to do something.

458
00:28:07,560 --> 00:28:10,560
Look at the actual benefits.
Don't bang your head against the

459
00:28:10,560 --> 00:28:13,160
wall just to bang your head.
Like, be smart about it.

460
00:28:14,320 --> 00:28:20,200
But yeah.
You know that the working out

461
00:28:20,200 --> 00:28:26,600
thing that is so crucial for me
just for not even physically,

462
00:28:26,600 --> 00:28:30,560
but but mentally, right?
Like I don't know how to explain

463
00:28:30,560 --> 00:28:31,840
it.
Sometimes there's like rage

464
00:28:31,840 --> 00:28:34,480
monkeys, right?
And the only thing I can get rid

465
00:28:34,480 --> 00:28:38,120
of the rage monkeys are are
lifting heavy things, right?

466
00:28:38,120 --> 00:28:44,080
Doing something physically hard.
I, I've, I've referred to going

467
00:28:44,080 --> 00:28:47,720
to the gym as the best, worst
part of my day, right?

468
00:28:49,080 --> 00:28:53,560
I, I go in, I got to talk myself
up for it every time people let

469
00:28:53,560 --> 00:28:55,080
go.
Wow, you must really like going.

470
00:28:55,080 --> 00:28:57,520
No, I hate it.
I hate it, right.

471
00:28:58,640 --> 00:29:02,160
I should say I hate going when
I'm there and I'm done.

472
00:29:02,160 --> 00:29:04,760
It's a good feeling.
But you know, there's a few, few

473
00:29:04,760 --> 00:29:07,720
hour, you know, a, a few minutes
of, you know, calling myself a

474
00:29:07,720 --> 00:29:09,880
wuss and, you know, get your
shoes on, go to the gym.

475
00:29:10,640 --> 00:29:16,920
But doing hard things is
absolutely necessary for the

476
00:29:16,920 --> 00:29:20,240
human experience.
If if we're not doing hard

477
00:29:20,240 --> 00:29:25,080
things, we start to go off the
rails and we'll invent hard

478
00:29:25,080 --> 00:29:29,360
things because we'll invent
struggle because we're wired for

479
00:29:29,360 --> 00:29:32,600
it, right?
I think, I think that's part of

480
00:29:32,800 --> 00:29:38,440
what drives us to excel in our
careers, excel to be good

481
00:29:38,440 --> 00:29:43,000
fathers and good husbands, and
it drives us in in our religious

482
00:29:43,000 --> 00:29:47,080
pursuits.
And so you need to be doing hard

483
00:29:47,080 --> 00:29:49,120
things, right.
That's one of the things I think

484
00:29:49,120 --> 00:29:51,520
is so vitally missing is so
missing.

485
00:29:51,520 --> 00:29:54,160
It's so vital.
And it I think that is what's

486
00:29:54,160 --> 00:29:58,200
fueling a lot of this addiction
is looking for the dopamine hits

487
00:29:58,200 --> 00:30:02,240
that our ancestors got either by
working a, you know, a piece of

488
00:30:02,240 --> 00:30:06,320
ground or, you know, hunting an
animal or whatever it was.

489
00:30:06,560 --> 00:30:09,160
We don't do those anymore.
And when we don't get the

490
00:30:09,160 --> 00:30:15,800
dopamine hits through time
tested struggle, healthy

491
00:30:15,800 --> 00:30:18,760
struggle, I should say, we're
going to go find it somewhere

492
00:30:18,760 --> 00:30:20,480
else.
And often times it becomes

493
00:30:20,480 --> 00:30:24,360
addicting.
As as you got into this and you

494
00:30:24,360 --> 00:30:29,320
started working with working
this program, what were some of

495
00:30:29,320 --> 00:30:34,160
the things that came to the
forefront on maybe why you think

496
00:30:34,160 --> 00:30:38,280
you were susceptible to, to
addiction?

497
00:30:38,360 --> 00:30:43,840
Right.
There's look, I I know guys who

498
00:30:44,920 --> 00:30:48,680
who have a drink it seems like.
They can drink like a gentleman.

499
00:30:49,360 --> 00:30:51,800
Yeah, drink like a gentleman.
And then there's other guys who

500
00:30:51,800 --> 00:30:54,920
are like, if I'm going to put
away one, I might as well put

501
00:30:54,920 --> 00:30:59,320
away 12, right?
What, what what causes that,

502
00:30:59,360 --> 00:31:01,080
right?
Whether, whether it's drinking,

503
00:31:01,080 --> 00:31:03,080
whether it's eating, whatever
the addiction is.

504
00:31:03,080 --> 00:31:06,920
What causes that exactly?
Why do some people see more

505
00:31:07,080 --> 00:31:08,880
disposition for that than
others?

506
00:31:09,400 --> 00:31:12,040
Right.
I personally believe it's the

507
00:31:12,040 --> 00:31:16,280
drive that you have.
So like for me, I know for a

508
00:31:16,280 --> 00:31:20,600
fact I can't have a drink.
I've I've never tasted, I've

509
00:31:20,600 --> 00:31:22,720
never had like a beer with
friends or anything like that.

510
00:31:22,720 --> 00:31:26,360
Never have, don't plan to
because I know in my family I

511
00:31:26,360 --> 00:31:29,400
have a big history of
Alcoholics.

512
00:31:30,200 --> 00:31:34,120
And really what it is is it's
it's a particular set of jeans

513
00:31:34,120 --> 00:31:39,720
along with a specific lifestyles
that make you kind of like wired

514
00:31:40,200 --> 00:31:44,240
to push the boundaries, if you
will.

515
00:31:44,240 --> 00:31:47,600
And back in the day, these were
the people that would go

516
00:31:47,600 --> 00:31:49,800
hunting.
These are the people that would

517
00:31:50,000 --> 00:31:55,880
build buildings.
And there's a big purpose for

518
00:31:55,880 --> 00:31:57,520
that.
It's just a matter of

519
00:31:57,520 --> 00:32:05,000
redirecting it to find out what
exactly is going on and how to

520
00:32:05,280 --> 00:32:08,960
properly do, how to properly
express that.

521
00:32:08,960 --> 00:32:14,960
Because if you don't, then then
you will express it other ways.

522
00:32:15,160 --> 00:32:18,840
It's, it's, I like to think of
it, it's like a pot with a lid

523
00:32:18,840 --> 00:32:22,000
on top and it's sealed and you
got boiling water inside.

524
00:32:22,240 --> 00:32:26,640
Eventually it's going to burst
unless you direct it.

525
00:32:26,640 --> 00:32:29,960
You have a valve where you can
direct the flow and you can

526
00:32:29,960 --> 00:32:33,440
actually create a steam engine
or you can create things that

527
00:32:33,440 --> 00:32:35,400
actually work for you, not
against you.

528
00:32:35,960 --> 00:32:39,360
And that can be really hard,
especially in today's society

529
00:32:39,360 --> 00:32:45,080
where we're moving more and more
to white collar jobs and that

530
00:32:45,080 --> 00:32:47,320
kind of stuff.
I myself am a trades worker.

531
00:32:47,320 --> 00:32:50,400
I, I, I can't sit in an office.
I cannot.

532
00:32:50,800 --> 00:32:55,080
And so for me, I have to go out,
I have to build, I have to do

533
00:32:55,080 --> 00:33:00,200
things with my hands and it just
creates a whole other dilemma.

534
00:33:00,200 --> 00:33:01,640
And we're losing all those
people.

535
00:33:02,080 --> 00:33:05,880
And I think it's also something
that you can learn if you're

536
00:33:05,880 --> 00:33:10,800
somebody that doesn't
necessarily have that drive to

537
00:33:10,800 --> 00:33:13,640
do those things.
I would say you have a drive,

538
00:33:13,640 --> 00:33:17,880
some of something, some I've
figured out that everybody has

539
00:33:18,120 --> 00:33:23,760
some sort of purpose or core
values as we teach it.

540
00:33:24,040 --> 00:33:28,760
And those core values align with
specific missions that you have.

541
00:33:29,120 --> 00:33:33,240
And if you're not fulfilling
that mission, then you become

542
00:33:33,240 --> 00:33:37,360
depressed.
You become absolutely, and you

543
00:33:37,360 --> 00:33:38,720
have to feel that with
something.

544
00:33:39,160 --> 00:33:44,680
There's a really good video
online called Animation versus

545
00:33:44,680 --> 00:33:48,200
Addiction and the character kind
of goes through, he's in an

546
00:33:48,200 --> 00:33:51,960
absolute Gray wasteland type
situation.

547
00:33:52,240 --> 00:33:54,480
It's not that it's not like
super bad, like, you know, it

548
00:33:54,480 --> 00:33:57,280
could be worse.
And he comes apart, he comes

549
00:33:57,280 --> 00:33:59,600
across a very bright pink
button.

550
00:34:00,200 --> 00:34:01,800
And he's like, huh, that's kind
of interesting.

551
00:34:02,240 --> 00:34:03,880
Picks it up, has all these
things.

552
00:34:03,880 --> 00:34:06,600
It becomes very curious.
And that's how, like men and

553
00:34:06,600 --> 00:34:09,080
women kind of stumble on this at
the first part and they're

554
00:34:09,080 --> 00:34:12,040
curious.
He taps the button and then the

555
00:34:12,040 --> 00:34:16,159
whole landscape turns bright
pink and he can fly.

556
00:34:16,239 --> 00:34:19,679
And he lies a feather and does
all this, but it doesn't last.

557
00:34:19,760 --> 00:34:21,520
Eventually everything goes back
to Gray.

558
00:34:21,520 --> 00:34:23,800
He ends up falling down.
He's like, I want to experience

559
00:34:23,800 --> 00:34:26,360
that again.
So he goes through, picks it up,

560
00:34:26,800 --> 00:34:29,199
presses the button and it works
again.

561
00:34:29,320 --> 00:34:34,280
But it's not for amount of time.
It's it's not for the same

562
00:34:34,280 --> 00:34:36,280
amount of time.
And then he comes across a blue

563
00:34:36,280 --> 00:34:38,800
button.
Something similar happens, but

564
00:34:38,800 --> 00:34:41,840
he can't ever find something
that's as good as the first hit.

565
00:34:42,760 --> 00:34:46,120
And then he's collecting all
these buttons and then his buddy

566
00:34:46,120 --> 00:34:48,320
comes and he's like, hey, what
are you doing?

567
00:34:48,800 --> 00:34:52,719
And the person's in absolute
shambles trying to find all

568
00:34:52,719 --> 00:34:55,000
these buttons and constantly be
pressing them.

569
00:34:55,480 --> 00:35:01,200
And then literally the his
friend has to throw all the

570
00:35:01,200 --> 00:35:03,560
buttons away and kind of hold
his friend back.

571
00:35:03,960 --> 00:35:08,080
And this is kind of what we
teach is you, you have to

572
00:35:08,080 --> 00:35:11,760
distance yourself.
It's like like you're

573
00:35:11,760 --> 00:35:13,240
overweight.
And I use like a lot.

574
00:35:13,240 --> 00:35:18,160
So I apologize for that.
But if you're overweight, you

575
00:35:18,160 --> 00:35:21,520
don't want a huge amount of soda
in the fridge because you're

576
00:35:21,520 --> 00:35:27,080
going to drink it.
Like for me, it's there's a

577
00:35:27,080 --> 00:35:31,000
specific way I can go home where
I know the gas per the gas

578
00:35:31,000 --> 00:35:34,680
station people there very well.
So they'll give me a discount on

579
00:35:34,680 --> 00:35:36,640
Donuts.
That's my advice.

580
00:35:36,640 --> 00:35:38,520
I absolutely love dump for
Donuts.

581
00:35:38,520 --> 00:35:42,600
It's it's a problem.
So for me, I go differently

582
00:35:42,600 --> 00:35:45,360
home.
I end up not taking the same

583
00:35:45,360 --> 00:35:53,600
route and that gives me space to
kind, to be in myself and to not

584
00:35:53,600 --> 00:35:56,400
allow myself to give into those
things, which is hard.

585
00:35:57,880 --> 00:36:04,240
Sure, no.
So, so you're, you're saying

586
00:36:04,240 --> 00:36:09,760
that, that that addictive
tendency typically comes from

587
00:36:09,760 --> 00:36:16,960
people with a high drive, right?
For, for success or for doing

588
00:36:16,960 --> 00:36:20,560
something that's, that's
interesting.

589
00:36:20,560 --> 00:36:23,000
And again, if you don't have an
outlet for that, that's going to

590
00:36:23,000 --> 00:36:26,800
cause problems.
So let me ask you this as you're

591
00:36:26,800 --> 00:36:30,640
watching now, right?
Because I do like, I can't help

592
00:36:30,640 --> 00:36:34,520
but wonder if things haven't
changed before with addiction.

593
00:36:34,960 --> 00:36:39,120
It was kind of the same story.
And I say before, back when I

594
00:36:39,120 --> 00:36:44,840
was a younger man, it was always
kind of the, the thing of I got

595
00:36:44,840 --> 00:36:50,400
addicted by this because it was,
you know, my coping mechanism

596
00:36:50,400 --> 00:36:54,320
for work, right?
It was you know you're solution

597
00:36:55,520 --> 00:36:57,200
WhatsApp.
Your solution?

598
00:36:57,840 --> 00:37:00,240
Yeah, it was, it was the
solution of coping.

599
00:37:01,320 --> 00:37:06,680
My question now is, are we
seeing different triggers to

600
00:37:06,680 --> 00:37:09,920
that right?
It's is it still about coping or

601
00:37:10,520 --> 00:37:14,840
is is there something more going
on now that this stuff can be

602
00:37:14,840 --> 00:37:17,280
just delivered to you, so to
speak, right?

603
00:37:19,240 --> 00:37:22,000
Is is that always the underlying
factor now?

604
00:37:24,560 --> 00:37:26,720
Yes and no.
The reason why I say that is

605
00:37:26,720 --> 00:37:30,040
because it's the same as it's
always been in the fact that

606
00:37:30,040 --> 00:37:32,360
it's a solution.
It's it's feeling something.

607
00:37:32,800 --> 00:37:36,440
And so as every individual that
is addicted to something, you

608
00:37:36,440 --> 00:37:39,520
got to ask yourself, what am I
getting from this?

609
00:37:39,920 --> 00:37:45,400
That like what, what need is it
feeling like I'll be personal a

610
00:37:45,400 --> 00:37:47,920
little bit for here?
I went to public school and

611
00:37:47,920 --> 00:37:52,840
because I went to public school,
I thought that there is nobody

612
00:37:52,840 --> 00:37:58,200
here I could have an emotional
attachment.

613
00:37:58,760 --> 00:38:00,960
I can't go on dates.
I can't do all these people.

614
00:38:01,120 --> 00:38:03,440
Especially when I was a lot
younger, I had a big chip on my

615
00:38:03,440 --> 00:38:07,560
shoulder.
I was like, I don't, I'm not one

616
00:38:07,560 --> 00:38:10,200
of these people and there's
nobody for me to connect to.

617
00:38:11,160 --> 00:38:15,080
And because there was no one for
me to connect to, it made such a

618
00:38:15,080 --> 00:38:19,040
void in me, especially since I'm
surrounded by everybody going on

619
00:38:19,040 --> 00:38:23,160
dates, kissing each other in the
hall and all that kind of stuff.

620
00:38:23,160 --> 00:38:25,840
That was hard for me to see.
It was painful.

621
00:38:25,840 --> 00:38:28,640
Each one was like a little prick
of like, you're not worth

622
00:38:28,640 --> 00:38:31,960
loving.
That's one thing that's huge

623
00:38:31,960 --> 00:38:36,040
that so many of us internalize.
If it's not in your conscious,

624
00:38:36,280 --> 00:38:41,920
it will be in your subconscious
of I am not good enough, I am

625
00:38:42,280 --> 00:38:48,160
not, I'm not worth someone
connecting to me.

626
00:38:49,360 --> 00:38:53,960
And it is such a brutal place to
be.

627
00:38:54,640 --> 00:38:57,840
And social media is making it so
much worse because we're

628
00:38:57,840 --> 00:39:03,320
constantly comparing back in the
day, like we just had our tribe

629
00:39:03,720 --> 00:39:07,600
and maybe the the other tribes
would get together once a year

630
00:39:07,800 --> 00:39:10,040
and we would maybe compare
ourselves with them.

631
00:39:10,680 --> 00:39:13,960
But now we're comparing to
everybody in the world.

632
00:39:14,520 --> 00:39:17,400
That's not our place to do that.
We are.

633
00:39:17,560 --> 00:39:21,880
Not go ahead, sorry.
I was just gonna say it's not

634
00:39:22,160 --> 00:39:27,280
our place to constantly
comparing ourselves with people

635
00:39:27,280 --> 00:39:29,760
that have received different
skills and different places of

636
00:39:29,760 --> 00:39:34,360
birth, but we do.
I'll, I'll go, I'll go one step

637
00:39:34,360 --> 00:39:38,160
further with that right.
Not only are we comparing, but

638
00:39:38,160 --> 00:39:40,000
we're not even comparing
realities.

639
00:39:40,560 --> 00:39:41,120
Why not?
Because.

640
00:39:41,120 --> 00:39:45,520
Most of the stuff that that we
see on on social media, it looks

641
00:39:45,520 --> 00:39:48,120
like everybody's always having
the best day of their lives,

642
00:39:48,240 --> 00:39:48,840
right?
Exactly.

643
00:39:49,600 --> 00:39:54,440
Now that's not reality.
I promise you, 99% of those

644
00:39:54,440 --> 00:39:57,440
people, when they wake up in the
morning, their back hurts, their

645
00:39:57,440 --> 00:40:00,960
knees aren't great.
They don't look like their job

646
00:40:01,000 --> 00:40:06,960
to get off the the next 10 lbs.
And and that's, that's, that's

647
00:40:06,960 --> 00:40:09,760
another thing that I've wondered
about here with, with addiction

648
00:40:09,760 --> 00:40:12,520
here a little bit in its current
time.

649
00:40:14,360 --> 00:40:17,560
We live in an age now where
quite frankly, there's not a lot

650
00:40:17,560 --> 00:40:21,680
to thrill, right?
Everything is curated,

651
00:40:21,680 --> 00:40:28,680
everything is is airbrushed,
everything is fake at one level

652
00:40:28,680 --> 00:40:30,160
or another.
Yeah.

653
00:40:31,760 --> 00:40:36,840
And I've wondered if some of
addiction isn't a quest to feel

654
00:40:36,840 --> 00:40:41,560
something real, right?
And you in an altered state

655
00:40:43,160 --> 00:40:45,560
you're feeling something at any
rate.

656
00:40:46,360 --> 00:40:52,120
And as I've looked around, as
I've gotten older, I realized

657
00:40:52,120 --> 00:40:57,720
that all the things that we
consume on some level, I

658
00:40:57,720 --> 00:41:00,880
shouldn't say all, all the
things we consume, many of the

659
00:41:00,880 --> 00:41:03,200
things that we consume,
especially if it comes from the

660
00:41:03,200 --> 00:41:10,440
world, is fake, right?
Fake calories, fake fake

661
00:41:10,440 --> 00:41:15,160
personas, kind of a fake
reality.

662
00:41:15,800 --> 00:41:20,520
And when someone gets in an
altered state, they're at least

663
00:41:20,520 --> 00:41:23,280
feeling something, right?
There's no longer the numbness

664
00:41:23,880 --> 00:41:31,200
of of of that.
Yeah, I would be so bold to say

665
00:41:31,200 --> 00:41:35,200
it's void of God.
I would to tie this back into

666
00:41:35,200 --> 00:41:38,840
our religion a little bit.
I use a lot of my religion in my

667
00:41:38,840 --> 00:41:44,360
teaching.
It voids the actual recognition

668
00:41:44,400 --> 00:41:50,360
and beauty of God.
You have all these oils and

669
00:41:50,880 --> 00:41:56,400
these pictures of people,
They're not what God created,

670
00:41:57,160 --> 00:41:59,480
not at all.
And because they're not what God

671
00:41:59,480 --> 00:42:03,920
created, it made you feel it on
a spiritual level and it's

672
00:42:03,920 --> 00:42:05,680
affecting you spiritually as
well.

673
00:42:06,920 --> 00:42:09,080
So then you're looking for that
connection.

674
00:42:09,720 --> 00:42:15,960
And a lot like a lot of people
think this is a nugget that I

675
00:42:15,960 --> 00:42:20,040
absolutely love.
Can't remember when exactly I

676
00:42:20,040 --> 00:42:24,480
learned this, but people think
the opposite of addiction is

677
00:42:24,480 --> 00:42:26,480
abstinence.
Right.

678
00:42:27,120 --> 00:42:30,280
That's not true.
The opposite of diction is

679
00:42:30,280 --> 00:42:35,680
meaningful connection.
All addiction, all problems ever

680
00:42:35,680 --> 00:42:38,640
in the world are relationship
problems.

681
00:42:38,960 --> 00:42:42,720
You just have to identify where
and who is involved in the

682
00:42:42,720 --> 00:42:45,480
relationship and how before you
can even begin solving it.

683
00:42:45,480 --> 00:42:49,400
And that's usually involved with
relationship to yourself.

684
00:42:49,400 --> 00:42:53,800
A lot of people miss that one.
Excuse me.

685
00:42:54,320 --> 00:42:59,880
So back to what you were saying
about connection to God, right?

686
00:42:59,880 --> 00:43:02,320
And this is going to tie back
into that relationship thing,

687
00:43:03,360 --> 00:43:06,360
whether we want to admit it or
not, there's a God shaped size

688
00:43:06,360 --> 00:43:10,880
hole or God shaped hole in
inside all of us.

689
00:43:11,560 --> 00:43:15,160
And we can try to fill that with
whatever it is that we think is

690
00:43:15,160 --> 00:43:19,720
going to fill it, booze,
partying, whatever, whatever it

691
00:43:19,720 --> 00:43:25,600
is, but it's never going to fit
and it's never going to to

692
00:43:25,600 --> 00:43:27,880
replace the emptiness that that
hole has.

693
00:43:28,880 --> 00:43:34,520
We search for, we search for
connection to the divine and,

694
00:43:34,960 --> 00:43:38,520
and that includes the divinity
within each one of the

695
00:43:38,520 --> 00:43:41,600
relationships that we have.
We either with, with our

696
00:43:41,600 --> 00:43:46,160
spouses, our children, our
brethren, whatever it is, human

697
00:43:46,160 --> 00:43:48,120
beings.
And and this is something that

698
00:43:48,120 --> 00:43:53,720
took me a long time to wrestle
with because I do have a an

699
00:43:53,720 --> 00:43:58,000
independent streak in me that
can go unhealthy from time to

700
00:43:58,000 --> 00:44:02,600
time.
As much as I hated to admit it,

701
00:44:03,000 --> 00:44:05,160
I need other people.
I need to be around other

702
00:44:05,160 --> 00:44:09,040
people.
It's not enough just to live the

703
00:44:09,040 --> 00:44:14,360
gospel on your own and not
interact with others it because

704
00:44:14,360 --> 00:44:17,920
that's going to leave again,
another a piece of that God

705
00:44:17,920 --> 00:44:23,800
shaped hole that you can't fill.
And it it becomes extremely

706
00:44:23,800 --> 00:44:27,640
important to to identify that
Zach.

707
00:44:29,080 --> 00:44:34,720
I was just going to say that you
also need to be in relationship

708
00:44:34,720 --> 00:44:38,560
with yourself, with God.
Explain that.

709
00:44:38,960 --> 00:44:44,400
So this is one of the biggest
problems I've ever seen,

710
00:44:44,920 --> 00:44:48,480
especially with people my age
and a little bit younger, is

711
00:44:49,240 --> 00:44:54,040
they hate themselves.
They on a fundamental level.

712
00:44:54,040 --> 00:44:58,720
If they came across them on the
street, they'd spit in their own

713
00:44:58,720 --> 00:45:04,840
face.
And that is something that is

714
00:45:04,840 --> 00:45:09,600
truly terrifying to be in
because you can't sit with

715
00:45:09,600 --> 00:45:13,640
yourself at all.
You can't.

716
00:45:15,440 --> 00:45:17,040
What?
Where's this hate coming from?

717
00:45:17,040 --> 00:45:18,640
Where's the self hate coming
from?

718
00:45:19,160 --> 00:45:22,680
Because I see it a lot, right?
Look, a few months back I had a

719
00:45:22,680 --> 00:45:28,880
buddy who, who, who's?
I'll edit that part out.

720
00:45:28,960 --> 00:45:33,600
Let me let me redo this.
Just last night, my wife had a

721
00:45:33,600 --> 00:45:38,440
friend who whose friend lives
across the country and her son

722
00:45:39,040 --> 00:45:42,320
took his own life.
Now this is about the third or

723
00:45:42,320 --> 00:45:45,840
fourth one I've heard of
recently and it's look, this is

724
00:45:45,840 --> 00:45:48,360
not a new problem.
It's been rising for a while.

725
00:45:48,880 --> 00:45:52,480
Yeah.
But it never used to be like

726
00:45:52,480 --> 00:45:55,080
this, right?
And and that's something I'm I'm

727
00:45:55,360 --> 00:45:57,960
wrestling hard with right now.
Yeah.

728
00:45:59,000 --> 00:46:03,280
As I look around, I mean, gosh,
in my whole high school

729
00:46:03,280 --> 00:46:09,320
experience, I probably knew of
one guy who didn't even go to my

730
00:46:09,320 --> 00:46:11,880
school.
It was just my general area that

731
00:46:11,880 --> 00:46:13,920
had tried to take his own life,
right?

732
00:46:13,920 --> 00:46:16,000
One in my whole time in high
school.

733
00:46:17,080 --> 00:46:23,120
Now, I think the statistics are
you at some point our kids are

734
00:46:23,120 --> 00:46:26,560
going to know someone who who
actually takes their own life.

735
00:46:27,400 --> 00:46:31,480
And that all stems from the self
hatred and self deprecation.

736
00:46:32,120 --> 00:46:35,160
So where's it coming from, Zach,
as people are coming to your

737
00:46:35,160 --> 00:46:38,200
program now identify it.
Where's it coming from?

738
00:46:41,640 --> 00:46:48,520
The biggest source is they don't
feel worthy to receive love.

739
00:46:49,600 --> 00:46:51,800
Why?
Why did that change?

740
00:46:52,800 --> 00:46:58,680
Because, and this is going to
sound harsh, they on a

741
00:46:58,680 --> 00:47:05,560
subconscious note, they do not
believe in the fullness of Jesus

742
00:47:05,560 --> 00:47:09,280
Christ and the resurrection.
They don't think they are

743
00:47:09,280 --> 00:47:11,920
valuable.
They don't understand who they

744
00:47:11,920 --> 00:47:14,240
are.
There's something that I always

745
00:47:14,240 --> 00:47:18,000
tell people and do you know who
you are?

746
00:47:18,000 --> 00:47:19,160
So let's go through this real
quick.

747
00:47:19,160 --> 00:47:24,160
Who are you, Dave?
I am first and foremost a

748
00:47:24,160 --> 00:47:27,720
husband and a father.
Well, I shouldn't say foremost

749
00:47:27,720 --> 00:47:29,480
first.
I'm I'm a son of God.

750
00:47:29,920 --> 00:47:32,200
There you go.
And I'm a husband and father.

751
00:47:32,240 --> 00:47:35,080
And then I you know.
Everything.

752
00:47:35,080 --> 00:47:39,360
Let's start with, let's start
with the you went to a place

753
00:47:39,360 --> 00:47:41,280
that you recognized it right
away.

754
00:47:41,320 --> 00:47:44,520
And it takes me sometimes a
month and a half to get people

755
00:47:44,520 --> 00:47:49,400
to recognize this.
We have titles, but they're not

756
00:47:49,400 --> 00:47:51,880
who we are.
You are a husband.

757
00:47:51,880 --> 00:47:55,560
So it it lists blessings and
responsibilities that you have,

758
00:47:56,000 --> 00:48:02,000
but that's not who you are.
We are first and foremost a

759
00:48:02,080 --> 00:48:07,640
spark of the divine.
You are a son of God.

760
00:48:08,320 --> 00:48:15,840
I am a son of God.
Many we, we have daughters and

761
00:48:15,840 --> 00:48:19,320
sons of God that don't know
this.

762
00:48:20,200 --> 00:48:24,440
And I do believe it is a crafty
thing that the devil has done

763
00:48:25,000 --> 00:48:28,640
and he has made a society where
that's not taught at a young

764
00:48:28,640 --> 00:48:30,880
age.
It's not taught at an old age.

765
00:48:30,880 --> 00:48:35,040
It's not taught period.
You, you have to become

766
00:48:35,040 --> 00:48:37,600
something more.
You yourself are not good

767
00:48:37,600 --> 00:48:41,040
enough.
It's in all like you see it on

768
00:48:41,040 --> 00:48:46,000
billboards, you see it on ads.
No ad ever in the world said you

769
00:48:46,000 --> 00:48:48,600
are just enough and you don't
need this product.

770
00:48:49,000 --> 00:48:52,280
It's you have this problem, you
are not good enough.

771
00:48:52,720 --> 00:48:54,760
Here is the thing that will fix
it.

772
00:48:55,920 --> 00:48:59,880
And it's false.
And you see all these kids and

773
00:48:59,880 --> 00:49:05,000
all these people.
I am not loving myself because

774
00:49:05,000 --> 00:49:09,800
I've been told I cannot love
myself until I achieve this

775
00:49:09,800 --> 00:49:11,960
thing.
And I know there are some of you

776
00:49:11,960 --> 00:49:14,800
out here that have watched that
that have that thingy pattern.

777
00:49:14,920 --> 00:49:17,480
And I'm telling you to knock it
off because.

778
00:49:17,480 --> 00:49:20,120
So let me let me push back on
that a little.

779
00:49:20,120 --> 00:49:23,840
Bit, yeah.
Because we're, we're right now

780
00:49:23,840 --> 00:49:28,560
looking at all the billboards
and all the, all the, the, the

781
00:49:28,560 --> 00:49:30,440
messaging that hey, you're not
enough.

782
00:49:30,880 --> 00:49:33,400
Yep.
And now I'm going to ask a real

783
00:49:33,400 --> 00:49:35,320
uncomfortable question.
Yep.

784
00:49:37,160 --> 00:49:40,720
Religion can do that as well.
Absolutely.

785
00:49:41,520 --> 00:49:46,960
And so now we're going to move
into, OK, let's, let's just say

786
00:49:46,960 --> 00:49:51,120
that someone's not bothered by
the billboards to, to go get,

787
00:49:51,120 --> 00:49:54,200
you know, the, the mommy
makeover, right?

788
00:49:54,200 --> 00:49:59,360
Or, or, you know, whatever it is
for guys, right?

789
00:50:00,600 --> 00:50:04,360
But in a religion, and look, I'm
going to say this, a religion

790
00:50:04,360 --> 00:50:08,560
like ours, which does put an
emphasis on progression and

791
00:50:08,560 --> 00:50:11,840
getting better.
We have to acknowledge that if

792
00:50:11,840 --> 00:50:15,280
we want to be as our as God is
now, right now, we're not there.

793
00:50:15,280 --> 00:50:17,560
We, we, we are not at that
place.

794
00:50:19,000 --> 00:50:23,680
So if someone is predisposition
to this kind of thinking that

795
00:50:23,680 --> 00:50:28,440
they're not enough and then they
encounter religion, how do they

796
00:50:28,440 --> 00:50:33,000
get to a point to where they can
practice their religion because

797
00:50:33,000 --> 00:50:37,960
they believe it's true without
becoming obsessive about, you

798
00:50:37,960 --> 00:50:41,880
know, about things like you're
saying about not being enough,

799
00:50:41,880 --> 00:50:44,880
right?
Because that is kind of the

800
00:50:44,880 --> 00:50:47,800
message of, of, hey, you can get
there, right?

801
00:50:47,800 --> 00:50:51,640
It's filled with hope.
But some people have a hard time

802
00:50:51,640 --> 00:50:55,160
remembering that hope and, and
focus on I'm not enough.

803
00:50:55,160 --> 00:50:59,880
And their religious experience
is another place where they get

804
00:50:59,880 --> 00:51:02,160
that signal.
So how do you deal with that,

805
00:51:02,160 --> 00:51:04,160
especially in the context of
Mormonism?

806
00:51:04,720 --> 00:51:08,640
Right, this is let's see,
where's my notes on that?

807
00:51:09,080 --> 00:51:11,240
This is a big, big question,
right?

808
00:51:11,560 --> 00:51:15,520
You see it a lot.
And to me, you have to

809
00:51:15,520 --> 00:51:18,000
understand the difference in
order to answer this question

810
00:51:18,160 --> 00:51:25,240
between shame and guilt.
So shame, shame is I did, I am

811
00:51:25,240 --> 00:51:28,400
bad.
I am not worthy of this Guilt is

812
00:51:28,400 --> 00:51:33,160
something I did something bad.
And now I can improve.

813
00:51:33,280 --> 00:51:35,640
I can actually progress through
this.

814
00:51:35,640 --> 00:51:39,240
It's a recognition that
something bad happened, but also

815
00:51:39,240 --> 00:51:42,320
recognize that there is a plan
of redemption.

816
00:51:44,320 --> 00:51:59,440
Where is it in DNC?
Where is it?

817
00:51:59,880 --> 00:52:02,840
You said it the other day and it
instantly pricked my heart like,

818
00:52:02,840 --> 00:52:07,120
oh, I need to write that down.
Is it 16 that we discussed the

819
00:52:07,160 --> 00:52:12,040
other day?
Dude, I talk enough junk that if

820
00:52:12,040 --> 00:52:14,760
you're asking me to remember
what I said a few weeks ago,

821
00:52:15,040 --> 00:52:16,400
that's not going to happen.
I no.

822
00:52:16,440 --> 00:52:19,080
No, this is this.
Was this was this this week?

823
00:52:21,600 --> 00:52:25,080
One second, Where's something?
I know I wrote it down.

824
00:52:25,080 --> 00:52:28,560
Where is it?
I have so many notes here

825
00:52:28,880 --> 00:52:29,800
hopefully.
Oh, you're good.

826
00:52:32,000 --> 00:52:35,600
So there's the take.
Your OK.

827
00:52:36,200 --> 00:52:45,040
Yeah, DNC 613, there is no gift
greater than the gift of

828
00:52:45,040 --> 00:52:48,200
salvation.
This is a gift.

829
00:52:48,560 --> 00:52:51,080
You didn't have to earn it.
You do have to.

830
00:52:51,360 --> 00:52:54,440
You do have to earn exaltation.
That's something that we should

831
00:52:54,440 --> 00:53:03,000
go into, but you should not
shame yourself for everything

832
00:53:03,000 --> 00:53:05,240
that you've done.
You should be in guilt.

833
00:53:05,800 --> 00:53:08,480
In, in the scriptures, it talks
about us shame.

834
00:53:08,960 --> 00:53:11,680
It doesn't use shame, it uses us
shame, but it's a little bit of

835
00:53:11,680 --> 00:53:15,840
a different and it's a different
culture back then, back then,

836
00:53:15,840 --> 00:53:18,840
and you see this a little bit, I
was talking to a really a friend

837
00:53:18,840 --> 00:53:22,960
a lot about him going on a
mission to Mexico where it when

838
00:53:22,960 --> 00:53:25,720
you correct somebody, you don't
get pushed back.

839
00:53:26,080 --> 00:53:30,120
In fact, they might even
actually take in what you said

840
00:53:30,640 --> 00:53:32,320
here.
You like, you talk to American

841
00:53:32,320 --> 00:53:34,280
culture.
It's they start justifying

842
00:53:34,280 --> 00:53:38,160
everything I do this so much
like they start justifying,

843
00:53:38,160 --> 00:53:39,840
start saying why they're doing
what they're doing.

844
00:53:40,480 --> 00:53:43,400
And that's not the way to go
with it.

845
00:53:44,160 --> 00:53:49,920
It's all about understanding
that where you are versus where

846
00:53:49,920 --> 00:53:52,560
you want to be, which is an
improvement.

847
00:53:52,560 --> 00:53:55,400
It's an, it's an uphill rise, if
you will.

848
00:53:56,200 --> 00:54:02,360
And you, you have to recognize
you are your worst critic.

849
00:54:03,840 --> 00:54:10,840
I, I like to, I like to bring
this analogy of most, most

850
00:54:10,840 --> 00:54:12,160
people I deal with don't have
kids.

851
00:54:12,160 --> 00:54:13,680
You do.
So you're going to understand

852
00:54:13,680 --> 00:54:14,840
this a little bit better than
most.

853
00:54:15,240 --> 00:54:21,160
Is you have your kid.
Do you yell at him for not

854
00:54:21,160 --> 00:54:23,880
knowing algebra?
No.

855
00:54:24,560 --> 00:54:28,000
Why?
Because I stink at math.

856
00:54:29,280 --> 00:54:34,520
Fair, fair.
No, I mean, look, if you can't.

857
00:54:36,080 --> 00:54:38,080
This is interesting.
I heard this talked about

858
00:54:38,080 --> 00:54:46,440
before.
Sometimes we as parents will

859
00:54:46,440 --> 00:54:50,880
come down hard on our kids for
things that aren't sin, right?

860
00:54:50,880 --> 00:54:53,760
They're annoyances, right?
They spill their milk.

861
00:54:53,760 --> 00:54:59,640
They they, they do things, but
we're sometimes we get a little

862
00:54:59,640 --> 00:55:04,720
gruff when we don't need to be.
I recognize that in myself.

863
00:55:04,720 --> 00:55:06,960
Took me years to recognize it
and then correct it.

864
00:55:07,640 --> 00:55:14,240
But you can't expect a kid to
know algebra if they're still

865
00:55:14,240 --> 00:55:16,640
learning their multiplication
tables, right?

866
00:55:17,160 --> 00:55:21,080
And and likewise, some people
just stink at math, right?

867
00:55:21,080 --> 00:55:24,240
The only reason I can do my job
is because I have the benefit of

868
00:55:24,680 --> 00:55:28,680
high-powered applications and
and software, right?

869
00:55:29,360 --> 00:55:33,200
Because if I had to longhand
calc out points, oh I'm picking

870
00:55:33,200 --> 00:55:37,720
a different career.
But no, that's why you you know

871
00:55:37,720 --> 00:55:39,640
that.
They haven't earned it.

872
00:55:39,640 --> 00:55:41,520
They haven't had an opportunity.
Right.

873
00:55:41,520 --> 00:55:43,080
They haven't had an opportunity
to learn it.

874
00:55:43,080 --> 00:55:46,960
And then two just it may not be
their natural strength, right?

875
00:55:48,200 --> 00:55:50,880
Now, I do believe everybody
should have a natural strength

876
00:55:50,920 --> 00:55:53,360
not to fight their neighbor when
they make them mad.

877
00:55:53,840 --> 00:55:55,480
That's right.
Let's get that out of the way.

878
00:55:55,520 --> 00:55:59,360
But you also have to give, and
you have to do this to yourself.

879
00:55:59,960 --> 00:56:05,560
You have to give yourself grace
in every opportunity you can.

880
00:56:08,360 --> 00:56:15,240
Hey, so now here here's and
again, I'm not trying to be no,

881
00:56:15,240 --> 00:56:18,200
you're good.
But I do, I do think that

882
00:56:18,200 --> 00:56:20,800
concept needs to be pressed a
little bit too, right?

883
00:56:21,240 --> 00:56:24,440
Because if, if you just give
yourself that grace at every

884
00:56:24,440 --> 00:56:29,240
opportunity, you're going to set
yourself up to or you could

885
00:56:29,240 --> 00:56:33,360
potentially set yourself up, I
should say to not do anything,

886
00:56:33,840 --> 00:56:37,000
right?
I just don't feel like going to

887
00:56:37,000 --> 00:56:39,160
the gym today.
So I'm going to give myself some

888
00:56:39,160 --> 00:56:41,400
grace and I'm going to take the
day off, right?

889
00:56:41,400 --> 00:56:45,600
And then the the day off turns
into a week, then it turns into

890
00:56:45,600 --> 00:56:48,840
a month and the next thing you
know, every gain you have made

891
00:56:48,840 --> 00:56:50,760
is gone with inside three
months.

892
00:56:52,720 --> 00:56:55,440
So so how do you temper that
right?

893
00:56:55,600 --> 00:57:00,280
How do you temper the grace with
OK, I need to get off my rear

894
00:57:00,280 --> 00:57:03,520
and go do something right?
And because those two things

895
00:57:03,760 --> 00:57:06,560
don't typically like to exist in
the same space.

896
00:57:06,880 --> 00:57:09,280
Right.
And this is where the world

897
00:57:09,280 --> 00:57:11,640
doesn't teach this, but you have
guilt.

898
00:57:12,480 --> 00:57:16,320
You have an A recognition of who
you could be.

899
00:57:16,320 --> 00:57:20,280
I love Jordan Peterson's talk on
this, of you have such an

900
00:57:20,280 --> 00:57:23,920
obligation to be the best you
could possibly be.

901
00:57:24,760 --> 00:57:29,960
And if you don't, then people
are going to suffer as a result

902
00:57:29,960 --> 00:57:32,400
of it.
Explain the difference between

903
00:57:32,400 --> 00:57:34,360
guilt and shame.
Let's do that.

904
00:57:34,520 --> 00:57:37,880
I think that's going to be a big
linchpin in this whole thing.

905
00:57:37,960 --> 00:57:44,520
Yeah, Yep.
So, so I mentioned before, shame

906
00:57:44,520 --> 00:57:47,560
is I am bad.
It's your identity.

907
00:57:47,800 --> 00:57:52,080
That's what shame really latches
onto is I'm not a son of God.

908
00:57:52,080 --> 00:57:57,600
I am just trash, right?
Guilt is I'm a human being

909
00:57:58,280 --> 00:58:02,920
improving, trying to make my way
through this, right?

910
00:58:03,600 --> 00:58:05,840
There's another there's another
step in this and that's finding

911
00:58:05,840 --> 00:58:09,040
your why, which we'll get to in
a little bit, but let's let's

912
00:58:09,040 --> 00:58:11,560
specifically stick with just
shame and guilt at this moment.

913
00:58:12,160 --> 00:58:17,880
So one thing that's also very
interesting is where was shame

914
00:58:18,800 --> 00:58:22,320
originate?
We we actually know when on

915
00:58:22,320 --> 00:58:27,200
Earth this was implemented when
when the devil introduced shake.

916
00:58:28,400 --> 00:58:31,840
Can you think of it?
It was in the garden so.

917
00:58:31,840 --> 00:58:36,720
Absolutely yes.
This this this to me is so

918
00:58:36,720 --> 00:58:38,800
important to understand.
Yes.

919
00:58:39,200 --> 00:58:43,520
And I've tried hard several
times to talk about this.

920
00:58:45,000 --> 00:58:48,000
Adam and Eve are in the garden
and Adam is dealing with his

921
00:58:48,000 --> 00:58:55,680
God, that God goes away.
Adam partakes of the fruit along

922
00:58:55,680 --> 00:59:03,240
with Eve and Lucifer said you
know, says hide yourself, make

923
00:59:03,240 --> 00:59:06,240
fig leaves, hide yourself and
God has to go.

924
00:59:07,160 --> 00:59:10,080
God has to go search for for
Adam, right?

925
00:59:10,240 --> 00:59:14,360
We're told in Scripture he he he
he calls for Adam and Adam was

926
00:59:14,360 --> 00:59:18,040
hiding.
Here's the take away.

927
00:59:18,160 --> 00:59:21,080
Here's what we need to
understand.

928
00:59:21,160 --> 00:59:29,760
I think about this story.
Adam was being sought after by

929
00:59:29,760 --> 00:59:33,640
his God.
Even look, they weren't

930
00:59:33,640 --> 00:59:36,640
surprised, right?
I hate to break it to you, the

931
00:59:36,720 --> 00:59:41,480
you know, you know, God wasn't
like Adam, you know, what'd you

932
00:59:41,480 --> 00:59:43,000
do?
And then was like shocked,

933
00:59:43,200 --> 00:59:44,920
right?
He knew, he knew.

934
00:59:46,120 --> 00:59:49,240
And so with that being said,
what can we take away from that

935
00:59:49,240 --> 00:59:53,040
story?
It's that even in our fallen

936
00:59:53,040 --> 00:59:57,520
nature, God loves us so much he
still pursues us.

937
00:59:59,800 --> 01:00:05,760
We can get worth from that.
Now, when it, when you look at

938
01:00:05,760 --> 01:00:12,360
guilt and shame and I'm, excuse
me, I'm going to go back to my

939
01:00:12,360 --> 01:00:15,760
days in the LDS church.
I was in, I was in elders quorum

940
01:00:15,760 --> 01:00:21,440
president and one of the guys in
my quorum said, Hey, can I talk

941
01:00:21,440 --> 01:00:23,320
to you for a few minutes?
I'm like, absolutely.

942
01:00:24,080 --> 01:00:29,200
So we just find an an empty
classroom and we duck in and

943
01:00:29,200 --> 01:00:34,320
this man was just broken, just
broken.

944
01:00:36,320 --> 01:00:38,040
And I said, what's what's going
on?

945
01:00:38,040 --> 01:00:41,080
And he said, well, you know,
I've had my struggles with

946
01:00:41,080 --> 01:00:44,200
things and I'm like, I do.
And he's like, you know, I've

947
01:00:44,200 --> 01:00:47,040
been to the Bishop and I have
repented and I was like I do.

948
01:00:48,000 --> 01:00:50,880
And I said, it looks like you're
making a really strong comeback,

949
01:00:51,000 --> 01:00:53,200
right?
And good, good for you for doing

950
01:00:53,200 --> 01:00:59,280
it.
And he said I can't shake the

951
01:00:59,280 --> 01:01:01,440
shame I feel.
Yeah.

952
01:01:01,880 --> 01:01:04,040
And I said, well, let's talk
about this a little bit.

953
01:01:04,800 --> 01:01:07,600
I was like, let's let's parse
this out.

954
01:01:07,680 --> 01:01:11,240
And so we parsed it out and I
had to go home that night with

955
01:01:11,240 --> 01:01:13,800
it being unresolved.
And it really frustrated me.

956
01:01:14,440 --> 01:01:16,120
It was the first time I dealt
with that.

957
01:01:16,640 --> 01:01:19,040
I'm ashamed takes years to deal
with.

958
01:01:19,200 --> 01:01:24,200
There are some individuals that
I am I I literally had to sit

959
01:01:24,600 --> 01:01:30,320
well both me and Christian had
to kind of be more direct in

960
01:01:30,320 --> 01:01:34,040
what we teach so that that
individual could finally click

961
01:01:34,200 --> 01:01:37,520
with the shame.
It is such a hard thing to deal

962
01:01:37,520 --> 01:01:39,920
with in today so.
Yeah.

963
01:01:39,920 --> 01:01:43,200
And so I went home to deal with
it because I was, I was trying

964
01:01:43,200 --> 01:01:44,680
to figure out how to help this
brother.

965
01:01:45,200 --> 01:01:49,240
Yeah.
And I prayed about it a lot.

966
01:01:49,960 --> 01:01:53,480
And what what came to me was you
got to differentiate between

967
01:01:53,480 --> 01:01:58,520
guilt and shame.
In my opinion, guilt is healthy.

968
01:01:59,160 --> 01:02:02,000
Very.
Guilt is going to be a

969
01:02:02,000 --> 01:02:07,040
motivating factor on you
recognizing you screwed up and

970
01:02:07,040 --> 01:02:11,320
then you have to make amends
where you can repent and move

971
01:02:11,320 --> 01:02:13,840
forward.
It should be a motivating

972
01:02:13,840 --> 01:02:16,000
factor.
It keeps you attached to your.

973
01:02:16,000 --> 01:02:17,320
Why?
Right.

974
01:02:17,840 --> 01:02:22,120
Shame.
Shame is detrimental, right?

975
01:02:23,120 --> 01:02:26,640
Shame is going to try to keep
you wherever you are.

976
01:02:26,640 --> 01:02:29,840
It's going to try to make you
continue to hide, right?

977
01:02:30,240 --> 01:02:34,600
And so it becomes very important
that we learn how to parse out

978
01:02:34,600 --> 01:02:38,720
what is guilt and what is shame.
And that's going to require us

979
01:02:38,720 --> 01:02:43,840
to be to be very deliberate in
how we think about things,

980
01:02:43,920 --> 01:02:45,960
right?
Like you start feeling shame

981
01:02:45,960 --> 01:02:47,840
after you repented and you're
like, wait a second.

982
01:02:47,840 --> 01:02:49,440
I thought I was forgiven for
this.

983
01:02:49,920 --> 01:02:53,480
Why am I still feeling that way?
And recognize it doesn't come

984
01:02:53,480 --> 01:02:55,480
from you.
So we ended up calling his

985
01:02:55,480 --> 01:03:01,360
brother back in to finish our
discussion and we talked a lot

986
01:03:01,360 --> 01:03:03,040
about that.
There were blessings that were

987
01:03:03,040 --> 01:03:05,640
given.
But I'll be honest with you.

988
01:03:05,680 --> 01:03:09,920
I, I think when we look at guilt
and shame, guilt I think is sent

989
01:03:09,920 --> 01:03:12,320
from heaven.
It's the Spirit's conviction of

990
01:03:12,320 --> 01:03:15,360
saying you need to make some
changes.

991
01:03:15,440 --> 01:03:19,880
You have to repent.
Guilt, in my opinion, comes from

992
01:03:19,880 --> 01:03:22,600
the adversary, which is you're
too far gone.

993
01:03:22,800 --> 01:03:24,640
There's no way you can be
forgiven.

994
01:03:25,080 --> 01:03:27,240
Did I say guilt?
I meant shame.

995
01:03:27,680 --> 01:03:31,080
Shame, it comes from the
adversary and shame says you're

996
01:03:31,080 --> 01:03:33,680
not good enough.
The atonement doesn't cover you

997
01:03:33,960 --> 01:03:36,720
and what you did.
You just need to stay right

998
01:03:36,720 --> 01:03:38,760
where you're at.
This is the best you can hope

999
01:03:38,760 --> 01:03:41,680
for now.
Run and hide from your father.

1000
01:03:42,000 --> 01:03:45,480
Yep, Yep, absolutely.
And those are the two things

1001
01:03:45,480 --> 01:03:50,080
that I think you got to parse
out in this because I, I,

1002
01:03:50,920 --> 01:03:54,600
because of the trade I work in,
I've seen a few, a few addicts,

1003
01:03:54,760 --> 01:03:56,040
you know.
Yeah.

1004
01:03:56,440 --> 01:04:04,480
Usually alcohol, but what I
noticed is that the hardest

1005
01:04:04,480 --> 01:04:09,240
thing for those guys to overcome
and to be able to withstand the

1006
01:04:09,240 --> 01:04:14,120
temptation didn't come from
everybody's having beers at 4 on

1007
01:04:14,120 --> 01:04:17,440
a Friday afternoon or somebody's
going out celebrating.

1008
01:04:17,760 --> 01:04:20,520
It's when they were feeling
shame, they were the most

1009
01:04:20,520 --> 01:04:22,880
susceptible to going back to the
bottom.

1010
01:04:23,600 --> 01:04:28,960
And you have to recognize both
of those, the guilt and the

1011
01:04:28,960 --> 01:04:32,160
shame, and then know how to
differentiate between the two.

1012
01:04:32,720 --> 01:04:35,520
So Zach, that's the question.
I think we need to go next,

1013
01:04:36,200 --> 01:04:38,920
right?
How do you differ?

1014
01:04:38,920 --> 01:04:42,240
How do you know the difference
between guilt and shame?

1015
01:04:42,640 --> 01:04:46,440
How did someone say, oh, I know
this feeling, this is guilt, or

1016
01:04:46,600 --> 01:04:49,120
oh, I know this feeling, this is
shame because they are

1017
01:04:49,120 --> 01:04:50,800
different.
How do you make the?

1018
01:04:51,000 --> 01:04:52,760
How do you differentiate between
the two?

1019
01:04:53,640 --> 01:04:59,960
One motivates you to stay put,
the other motivates you to

1020
01:05:00,000 --> 01:05:05,040
actually change.
There's a really good story.

1021
01:05:05,040 --> 01:05:11,080
Majority of people know it
involves a special light, a

1022
01:05:11,080 --> 01:05:16,000
special lion warthog, and a
bunch of different animals.

1023
01:05:16,240 --> 01:05:19,920
Lion King.
This is actually an amazing

1024
01:05:19,920 --> 01:05:25,880
story of how to properly heal
and what it is is basically for

1025
01:05:25,880 --> 01:05:29,240
those who don't know.
That ages me a little bit, I

1026
01:05:29,240 --> 01:05:36,000
guess.
But you have this young cub and

1027
01:05:36,160 --> 01:05:41,200
he gets told by his uncle or the
world, 'cause I like to say you

1028
01:05:41,200 --> 01:05:46,000
have killed your father, you
have disgraced yourself, you

1029
01:05:46,000 --> 01:05:49,160
have done all the worst bad
thing you could do.

1030
01:05:49,800 --> 01:05:54,240
So now you need to run, you need
to not face this, you need to

1031
01:05:54,240 --> 01:05:58,320
avoid it.
Avoidance is a key factor with

1032
01:05:58,320 --> 01:06:00,520
shame.
If you're avoiding something,

1033
01:06:00,760 --> 01:06:03,840
you know you're in shame.
That's one thing that God does

1034
01:06:03,840 --> 01:06:06,840
is He's all about taking
responsibility for it.

1035
01:06:07,880 --> 01:06:11,200
For me, are we a little personal
here?

1036
01:06:11,640 --> 01:06:15,920
And it was always challenging,
but I always had to go to my

1037
01:06:15,920 --> 01:06:18,520
parents when I knew I had messed
up.

1038
01:06:19,200 --> 01:06:26,040
And for me, it was tough, but I
knew I had to do it.

1039
01:06:26,040 --> 01:06:28,400
I knew that God wanted me and
help me grow.

1040
01:06:28,960 --> 01:06:31,600
And in a way, it was me taking
responsibility for it.

1041
01:06:32,040 --> 01:06:39,440
And the immense spirit of love
that would come after was always

1042
01:06:39,440 --> 01:06:41,280
huge.
And it always surprised me,

1043
01:06:41,920 --> 01:06:44,920
'cause here I am thinking that
they're gonna hate me, they're

1044
01:06:44,920 --> 01:06:47,240
gonna yell at me, they're gonna
do this, that and the 3rd.

1045
01:06:47,480 --> 01:06:51,080
And I know there are parents
that do act like that.

1046
01:06:51,440 --> 01:06:55,680
It it's a real possibility for
me.

1047
01:06:55,680 --> 01:07:01,200
In my experience, it was very
much out of love and compassion

1048
01:07:01,200 --> 01:07:04,720
with that.
So you have Simba Runaway.

1049
01:07:05,400 --> 01:07:11,040
Where does he go?
A paradise that's not his own, A

1050
01:07:11,040 --> 01:07:16,960
paradise filled with bugs and
easygoing life where he's not

1051
01:07:17,400 --> 01:07:20,080
growing his character, he's not
being challenged in any way.

1052
01:07:20,080 --> 01:07:23,160
He's becoming weak.
He's only eating bugs.

1053
01:07:23,680 --> 01:07:26,160
And that's what we are when
we're in shame, is we're only

1054
01:07:26,160 --> 01:07:29,600
eating things just to get by.
We're not eating things to grow,

1055
01:07:30,000 --> 01:07:32,400
to actually uphold and take the
challenges.

1056
01:07:33,040 --> 01:07:38,160
And what does it take?
It takes a monkey or in this

1057
01:07:38,160 --> 01:07:41,360
case a spiritual leader or
something.

1058
01:07:41,360 --> 01:07:45,240
I, I usually like to say like
the monkey's the spirit of God

1059
01:07:45,240 --> 01:07:48,520
and then the love of God is his
father coming to him.

1060
01:07:48,520 --> 01:07:53,720
And what does he say?
He says you have forgotten me.

1061
01:07:54,760 --> 01:07:57,520
And to that I equivalent of
you've forgotten who you are.

1062
01:07:58,000 --> 01:08:02,280
You've forgotten that you are a
son of the living God or a

1063
01:08:02,280 --> 01:08:08,040
daughter of the living God.
He cares for you and like to

1064
01:08:08,360 --> 01:08:10,320
reiterate your point that you
did a little bit earlier.

1065
01:08:11,120 --> 01:08:14,360
He's never surprised.
He's never like, well, I didn't

1066
01:08:14,360 --> 01:08:16,640
see that coming.
He's never like that.

1067
01:08:17,240 --> 01:08:19,399
He's, I knew this was going to
happen.

1068
01:08:19,800 --> 01:08:25,880
I prepared a way for you to come
back.

1069
01:08:26,439 --> 01:08:30,920
I prepared a way for you to be
forgiven, but you have to take

1070
01:08:30,920 --> 01:08:37,880
it for for for Simba is you have
to return.

1071
01:08:38,200 --> 01:08:40,160
You have to face what you've
done.

1072
01:08:40,920 --> 01:08:44,920
It's that simple switch of
deciding to take a step toward

1073
01:08:45,319 --> 01:08:51,120
the Pride Lands, return to what
you become, what you were, that

1074
01:08:51,120 --> 01:08:55,520
makes all the difference.
As I with with shame and guilt,

1075
01:08:55,520 --> 01:08:59,200
it's are you moving backward or
are you moving forward?

1076
01:08:59,920 --> 01:09:02,760
Are you taking responsibility or
are you running from it?

1077
01:09:04,120 --> 01:09:06,000
That's the fundamental
difference.

1078
01:09:06,680 --> 01:09:10,240
You know, the the as as I've
thought about this quite a bit

1079
01:09:14,040 --> 01:09:17,040
and this this might come across
as kind of spicy.

1080
01:09:17,399 --> 01:09:18,600
No, you're good.
I like.

1081
01:09:18,600 --> 01:09:25,720
And so I don't mean to offend
anybody, but shame is the denial

1082
01:09:25,720 --> 01:09:28,319
that the atonement is enough.
Yep.

1083
01:09:30,840 --> 01:09:35,720
It does, you know.
It comes from a place of saying

1084
01:09:36,279 --> 01:09:40,439
what Christ endured is not
enough for me to be forgiven.

1085
01:09:41,040 --> 01:09:45,120
Yep.
And that ultimately comes from

1086
01:09:45,120 --> 01:09:48,200
the father of lies.
And it's important that it's

1087
01:09:48,200 --> 01:09:54,720
recognized as such because if
you can't, if you can't

1088
01:09:54,880 --> 01:10:02,440
understand that, if you can't
consciously reckon with that, it

1089
01:10:02,440 --> 01:10:05,800
will be a detriment that will
damn your progression for as

1090
01:10:05,800 --> 01:10:09,560
long as you struggle with it.
I want to, I want to share a

1091
01:10:09,560 --> 01:10:13,320
story here real quick and I
might edit it out later.

1092
01:10:13,320 --> 01:10:15,800
I don't know.
It's a short story I've shared

1093
01:10:15,800 --> 01:10:21,600
off the podcast a few times.
When Tanya joined the family,

1094
01:10:22,360 --> 01:10:27,760
she, she got her endowments out
and then she wanted to take a

1095
01:10:27,760 --> 01:10:36,520
name through the temple.
And I remember I was asked, you

1096
01:10:36,520 --> 01:10:39,840
know, she'd asked me to do the
baptism for her grandma, right,

1097
01:10:39,840 --> 01:10:42,160
To perform the baptism as she
stood in place for her

1098
01:10:42,160 --> 01:10:47,320
grandmother.
And we were down in the font and

1099
01:10:47,320 --> 01:10:50,000
bro, I could not say this
woman's name.

1100
01:10:51,040 --> 01:10:53,760
I would raise my arm to the
square and it was a simple name,

1101
01:10:54,480 --> 01:10:56,560
right?
And I just could not spit it

1102
01:10:56,560 --> 01:11:01,000
out.
And finally, I just remember I

1103
01:11:01,000 --> 01:11:02,800
was thinking, what is going on
here?

1104
01:11:04,040 --> 01:11:07,480
And so I, I just stopped.
I said, I need a few minutes,

1105
01:11:07,480 --> 01:11:11,080
right?
And I just said a prayer like

1106
01:11:11,720 --> 01:11:14,360
something isn't right, what's
happening here?

1107
01:11:16,960 --> 01:11:22,680
And I got a clear message that
that the woman we were

1108
01:11:22,680 --> 01:11:26,640
attempting to do her work for,
God was so excited for her to

1109
01:11:26,640 --> 01:11:31,200
have that work, but she was
still in a state of shame.

1110
01:11:34,920 --> 01:11:42,000
And so I told, you know, I, I
told Tanya I was like, let's,

1111
01:11:42,000 --> 01:11:46,120
let's stop this for now and
let's pick it back up and let's

1112
01:11:46,120 --> 01:11:49,560
give it some time.
So we, we got, I had another

1113
01:11:49,560 --> 01:11:52,480
family name I let her use to go
through that went off without a

1114
01:11:52,480 --> 01:11:56,040
hitch.
But Tanya asked me later, she's

1115
01:11:56,040 --> 01:11:58,400
like, how, how do, how do I get
her there?

1116
01:11:58,400 --> 01:12:01,920
I was like, I don't think you
can, I think I definitely think

1117
01:12:01,920 --> 01:12:05,120
we can pray for her, right?
And indeed we did.

1118
01:12:05,120 --> 01:12:09,000
We made a point of praying about
that for a while, but it wasn't

1119
01:12:09,040 --> 01:12:14,120
until a few months later that we
tried it again and everything

1120
01:12:14,120 --> 01:12:16,840
went through and Tanya felt like
she'd received some revelation.

1121
01:12:17,840 --> 01:12:22,320
Shame is one of those things
that will absolutely damn our

1122
01:12:22,320 --> 01:12:26,400
progression, and it's important
that we struggle with that here

1123
01:12:26,720 --> 01:12:30,480
so that we gain the faith
necessary in Christ's atonement

1124
01:12:30,920 --> 01:12:33,200
that we're on the other side.
We're not struggling with that

1125
01:12:33,200 --> 01:12:36,200
still.
And that is a hard thing to do

1126
01:12:36,200 --> 01:12:40,080
because it's going to require us
to be extremely vulnerable and

1127
01:12:40,080 --> 01:12:44,040
it's going to to require us to
do some uncomfortable things.

1128
01:12:44,720 --> 01:12:50,640
One of the things that I am, I
am coming to understand, it's so

1129
01:12:50,640 --> 01:12:56,560
necessary, is this idea of
confession, right?

1130
01:12:57,120 --> 01:13:00,480
Not kind of in the Catholic
sense and kind of in the

1131
01:13:00,480 --> 01:13:04,360
organized religion sense, but
you need to have people around

1132
01:13:04,360 --> 01:13:08,080
you that you can confide in,
that you can say, you know what,

1133
01:13:08,320 --> 01:13:11,600
I screwed up.
I'm taking responsibility for

1134
01:13:11,600 --> 01:13:14,400
this.
Taking responsibility for it and

1135
01:13:14,400 --> 01:13:17,320
then having people around you
that can help guide you through

1136
01:13:17,320 --> 01:13:20,040
whatever process you need to go
through to get right again.

1137
01:13:20,520 --> 01:13:24,080
Because if you just continually
hide that, you're not really

1138
01:13:24,080 --> 01:13:26,000
hiding it.
All you're doing is just damming

1139
01:13:26,000 --> 01:13:29,120
up your progression.
And so I think it's in dealing

1140
01:13:29,120 --> 01:13:32,240
with a shame that is going to be
the the hardest thing here.

1141
01:13:33,160 --> 01:13:37,320
And because like I said, I could
set, it was predictable.

1142
01:13:37,320 --> 01:13:42,840
If a guy who was struggling with
drinking starting to feel shame,

1143
01:13:43,240 --> 01:13:46,200
he was weak in that moment.
He was at his weakest.

1144
01:13:46,200 --> 01:13:49,600
And that was when he was in the
most danger of picking up a

1145
01:13:49,600 --> 01:13:51,040
drink again.
Again, it wasn't the

1146
01:13:51,040 --> 01:13:53,960
celebration.
It wasn't the Friday, you know,

1147
01:13:54,160 --> 01:13:57,200
at 4 beer that you know,
everyone had around the office

1148
01:13:57,200 --> 01:14:00,920
together.
It was shame that he was feeling

1149
01:14:01,240 --> 01:14:03,920
that they would always be the
most susceptible.

1150
01:14:04,240 --> 01:14:07,840
And so, yeah, I think, I think
what you said about how to

1151
01:14:07,840 --> 01:14:13,800
recognize that is really good.
Is, is understanding that one is

1152
01:14:13,800 --> 01:14:17,840
tied to action and the other is
tied to staying in whatever hell

1153
01:14:17,840 --> 01:14:21,400
you happen to be in at that
moment that's associated with

1154
01:14:21,400 --> 01:14:21,760
that.
And.

1155
01:14:22,400 --> 01:14:24,480
What's interesting is the
scriptures actually point to

1156
01:14:24,480 --> 01:14:30,560
this of the devils have power
over you when you succumb to

1157
01:14:30,840 --> 01:14:35,480
cravings and addictions.
It's literally then what's it

1158
01:14:35,480 --> 01:14:36,800
called?
The wrapping chord?

1159
01:14:36,800 --> 01:14:40,520
I can't remember what the exact
phrasing is, but it's literally.

1160
01:14:42,160 --> 01:14:44,400
Flaxen string or something like
that if I'm not.

1161
01:14:44,600 --> 01:14:49,040
Yeah, it it's, it's very fine
things that you don't, that you

1162
01:14:49,040 --> 01:14:52,200
have a hard time seeing.
But then once they actually get

1163
01:14:52,200 --> 01:14:55,160
quite a few times around,
they're hard to break.

1164
01:14:55,960 --> 01:14:57,920
That's why shame is so hard for
this.

1165
01:14:57,920 --> 01:15:01,240
It's because it it goes around
quick and then you want to break

1166
01:15:01,280 --> 01:15:03,560
free, but you can't.
You're stuck there.

1167
01:15:04,040 --> 01:15:11,160
And so now it just becomes a a
matter of really trying to get

1168
01:15:11,160 --> 01:15:14,640
that off.
And and let's tie this back to

1169
01:15:14,640 --> 01:15:17,720
that thing about the God shaped
hole in in each of us, right?

1170
01:15:17,960 --> 01:15:20,720
Yep.
If if if you're not accepting

1171
01:15:20,720 --> 01:15:23,840
the invitation to come back that
your father caught and Savior

1172
01:15:23,840 --> 01:15:25,960
constantly extend.
Yep.

1173
01:15:27,680 --> 01:15:33,000
Because you have succumb to the
message that the atonement's not

1174
01:15:33,000 --> 01:15:38,240
enough for you, right?
You never accept the invitation.

1175
01:15:38,560 --> 01:15:42,400
You never say, you never take
the hand that that is extended

1176
01:15:42,400 --> 01:15:50,040
to lift you out of that.
And at some point, like if if

1177
01:15:50,040 --> 01:15:53,080
you're feeling shame, you need
to identify it and call it out,

1178
01:15:53,160 --> 01:15:55,560
right?
Because I do think that is it

1179
01:15:55,560 --> 01:15:59,560
absolutely one of the the
adversary's most effective

1180
01:15:59,560 --> 01:16:02,800
spiritual weapons devised
against God's children that that

1181
01:16:02,800 --> 01:16:07,200
has ever existed and probably
ever will exist and.

1182
01:16:07,480 --> 01:16:09,160
There's a reason it's one of the
originals.

1183
01:16:09,280 --> 01:16:11,200
There's there's a big reason for
that.

1184
01:16:11,720 --> 01:16:15,280
Yep, absolutely.
So, yeah, that's I, I think

1185
01:16:15,280 --> 01:16:18,120
that's good understanding the
difference between guilt and

1186
01:16:18,120 --> 01:16:22,680
shame.
So let me ask you this question,

1187
01:16:22,680 --> 01:16:24,360
right?
Is there any other principles

1188
01:16:24,360 --> 01:16:27,600
you want to get into?
Because I really do want to dive

1189
01:16:27,600 --> 01:16:32,160
into a little bit about what
you're seeing in in this in this

1190
01:16:32,160 --> 01:16:34,560
group that's helping people
overcome addiction.

1191
01:16:35,000 --> 01:16:37,600
Are there any other principles,
Zach, that you feel like we've

1192
01:16:37,600 --> 01:16:40,640
glossed over or we've missed?
I do.

1193
01:16:40,640 --> 01:16:45,360
Have the 12 steps that we teach.
Do you want to gloss over those

1194
01:16:45,360 --> 01:16:47,400
or do you want to kind of go
into these a little more detail?

1195
01:16:47,400 --> 01:16:49,840
No, I, I, I want to, I
definitely want to go into

1196
01:16:49,840 --> 01:16:52,880
those, but I want to go into it
from a, a place.

1197
01:16:53,000 --> 01:16:55,680
I thought about this.
Yeah, a little bit.

1198
01:16:56,280 --> 01:17:02,480
Let's let's take a hypothetical
guide that you see kind of an

1199
01:17:02,480 --> 01:17:04,080
amalgamation.
Yeah.

1200
01:17:04,840 --> 01:17:08,800
When people come to to the
program, yeah, what's their

1201
01:17:08,800 --> 01:17:11,920
condition like most of the time,
Again, people are different and

1202
01:17:11,920 --> 01:17:14,360
we're going to have variations,
but I'd imagine that there is

1203
01:17:14,360 --> 01:17:18,520
kind of an overarching set of
things that you see pretty

1204
01:17:18,520 --> 01:17:20,360
consistently, right?
Yeah.

1205
01:17:20,720 --> 01:17:25,040
So I would say that there's
there's like several different

1206
01:17:25,040 --> 01:17:27,400
groups of people that are
patterns.

1207
01:17:27,400 --> 01:17:31,440
If you know that I've seen and
what you have the people that

1208
01:17:31,440 --> 01:17:37,560
have come in like super down,
super in shame.

1209
01:17:38,000 --> 01:17:41,200
Then there's the kind of in
between of people that are

1210
01:17:42,040 --> 01:17:47,400
between shame and they don't
quite grasp of how far they've

1211
01:17:47,400 --> 01:17:49,640
fallen and the problems that
they have.

1212
01:17:49,640 --> 01:17:51,760
They're in somewhat of like a
delusion or something like that.

1213
01:17:52,000 --> 01:17:54,920
And then you have the other
people that are really

1214
01:17:54,920 --> 01:17:58,920
invigorated in overcoming this.
That's like gun ho.

1215
01:17:58,920 --> 01:18:03,440
I am going to do whatever it
takes to solve this and get this

1216
01:18:03,440 --> 01:18:05,960
out of my life.
So I'd say we see pretty much a

1217
01:18:05,960 --> 01:18:12,520
range of that around that.
OK, so when let's let's take the

1218
01:18:12,520 --> 01:18:14,240
first one.
Yeah, right.

1219
01:18:14,240 --> 01:18:17,120
The the people who are in
immense shame.

1220
01:18:17,560 --> 01:18:20,080
Yep.
How, how is it you and, and the

1221
01:18:20,080 --> 01:18:22,640
people in your program?
How, how do you guys deal with

1222
01:18:22,640 --> 01:18:25,360
that person?
You know, first, first time you

1223
01:18:25,360 --> 01:18:29,520
meet them And look, there are
physical indicators, right?

1224
01:18:29,920 --> 01:18:33,040
If someone doesn't want to look
in the eye, right, look, there's

1225
01:18:33,040 --> 01:18:35,640
their sign.
So, so I'm guessing you guys are

1226
01:18:35,640 --> 01:18:38,760
pretty good now at being able to
spot them just by their posture

1227
01:18:39,160 --> 01:18:41,200
and how they carry and conduct
themselves.

1228
01:18:41,520 --> 01:18:44,680
So let's take that first, that
first group there, the guy who's

1229
01:18:44,680 --> 01:18:46,040
just.
Just.

1230
01:18:46,400 --> 01:18:48,920
Beaten down into shame.
How do you, how do you guys deal

1231
01:18:48,920 --> 01:18:51,960
with that guy first right cuz
you get I'm guessing before you

1232
01:18:51,960 --> 01:18:55,600
start working those steps, you
got to get them to a place of

1233
01:18:55,600 --> 01:18:58,520
hope right?
Yes.

1234
01:18:58,520 --> 01:19:03,920
And how do you get them there?
So one thing that we do is so we

1235
01:19:03,920 --> 01:19:07,600
teach one step a month.
And then we also have

1236
01:19:07,800 --> 01:19:13,040
discussions of, of things that
you can do day-to-day to give

1237
01:19:13,040 --> 01:19:18,720
you space and to give you the
ability to start using the, the

1238
01:19:19,000 --> 01:19:21,600
lessons that we teach you.
Because people who know, who

1239
01:19:21,600 --> 01:19:24,400
have been enthralled in their
addiction, I always called it

1240
01:19:24,400 --> 01:19:29,160
like a wave of it would just hit
you and hit you hard and you

1241
01:19:29,160 --> 01:19:32,600
wouldn't you, you could barely
think in the situation.

1242
01:19:32,840 --> 01:19:37,560
So you need to, we need to, we
are big into teaching day-to-day

1243
01:19:37,560 --> 01:19:41,320
things that you can do to kind
of distance yourself from the

1244
01:19:41,320 --> 01:19:45,520
addiction and then really start
to go from there.

1245
01:19:46,240 --> 01:19:48,280
Because this is a group therapy.
I don't know if I mentioned that

1246
01:19:48,280 --> 01:19:50,400
earlier, but this is like a
group therapy of like a bunch of

1247
01:19:50,400 --> 01:19:51,680
different people at the same
time.

1248
01:19:53,760 --> 01:19:55,240
Right.
OK.

1249
01:19:57,160 --> 01:20:04,600
So typically what which is
there?

1250
01:20:04,600 --> 01:20:08,400
Is there a certain group that of
those three that present?

1251
01:20:09,920 --> 01:20:14,920
More challenges than the other.
The people that have the hardest

1252
01:20:14,920 --> 01:20:17,960
challenges are the ones that
have the hardest relationship

1253
01:20:17,960 --> 01:20:21,800
with God, Barnum.
Those are the people that

1254
01:20:21,800 --> 01:20:24,440
they're wrapped in shame.
They know they're wrapped in

1255
01:20:24,440 --> 01:20:30,160
shame, but they're mad at God.
They're mad at their life's not

1256
01:20:30,160 --> 01:20:36,360
going the way they want it to
and they they hate themselves as

1257
01:20:36,360 --> 01:20:39,560
we kind of, as we kind of talked
about, they hate themselves.

1258
01:20:39,920 --> 01:20:43,520
And so those are the people that
we kind of really need to have

1259
01:20:43,520 --> 01:20:47,560
like just a direct class.
And we'll make like the whole

1260
01:20:47,560 --> 01:20:49,360
class.
Well, if they're, if they're

1261
01:20:49,360 --> 01:20:52,440
willing, we don't force anybody
to talk, but if they're willing,

1262
01:20:52,440 --> 01:20:55,800
kind of go into their situation
and kind of see what we can do

1263
01:20:55,800 --> 01:21:00,040
to help their specific situation
and give them direct details on

1264
01:21:00,040 --> 01:21:02,400
how to kind of better their
situations.

1265
01:21:03,720 --> 01:21:06,520
Gotcha.
OK, no, that makes that makes

1266
01:21:06,520 --> 01:21:08,720
sense.
So let's move into the steps

1267
01:21:08,720 --> 01:21:09,720
then.
Yeah.

1268
01:21:11,440 --> 01:21:15,320
So a little history on these
steps.

1269
01:21:15,320 --> 01:21:17,960
The church actually got it.
Everybody that has a library

1270
01:21:17,960 --> 01:21:22,000
app, if you actually type in
addiction recovery, there will

1271
01:21:22,000 --> 01:21:24,280
be a plethora of things that you
can do.

1272
01:21:26,440 --> 01:21:29,760
I believe, I believe it's just
called addiction recovery

1273
01:21:29,760 --> 01:21:34,160
pamphlet in your in the library
app itself.

1274
01:21:34,160 --> 01:21:40,800
And it'll have these 12 steps.
So the first one is honesty and

1275
01:21:40,800 --> 01:21:44,280
submission to God.
This has to be Step 1.

1276
01:21:44,480 --> 01:21:47,800
You, you cannot fix a problem
until you recognize the issue.

1277
01:21:48,840 --> 01:21:56,840
And you'd be surprised at how
many people don't think they

1278
01:21:56,840 --> 01:21:58,880
have a problem and then they do
have a problem.

1279
01:21:59,240 --> 01:22:02,400
I love the Jordan Peterson gave
an amazing talk.

1280
01:22:02,400 --> 01:22:04,960
I listen to a lot of
psychologists, so you can tell.

1281
01:22:05,480 --> 01:22:11,360
But it's called Mommy There's a
Dragon, and it's children's

1282
01:22:11,360 --> 01:22:13,680
book.
And it's basically about this

1283
01:22:13,680 --> 01:22:17,400
little kid telling his parents,
hey, there's a little dragon in

1284
01:22:17,400 --> 01:22:19,640
the house.
And every time their parents

1285
01:22:19,640 --> 01:22:23,400
would ignore it, it would grow
and it would grow and grow and

1286
01:22:23,400 --> 01:22:24,880
grow.
And each time, the mom would

1287
01:22:24,880 --> 01:22:26,760
say, there's not a dragon,
There's no such thing as

1288
01:22:26,760 --> 01:22:29,360
Dragons.
And pretty soon the dragon

1289
01:22:29,880 --> 01:22:32,840
literally carries the house down
the street.

1290
01:22:33,600 --> 01:22:38,720
And then, yeah.
And then finally, the parents

1291
01:22:38,720 --> 01:22:40,240
are like, OK, there's a drag in
the house.

1292
01:22:40,240 --> 01:22:44,280
And it would begin to shrink.
And then they would continually

1293
01:22:44,280 --> 01:22:46,960
acknowledge it until they
brought the house back and it

1294
01:22:46,960 --> 01:22:51,080
would shrink all the way down.
And then eventually would

1295
01:22:51,080 --> 01:22:56,240
disappear and it it all the, the
shrinking all started with the

1296
01:22:56,240 --> 01:22:59,720
recognition of it.
And you also have to recognize

1297
01:23:00,560 --> 01:23:04,080
you are powerless to fight this
on your own.

1298
01:23:05,760 --> 01:23:08,360
All addictions.
I'm going to say it again, you

1299
01:23:08,360 --> 01:23:14,040
cannot fight alone.
You have to do with this with

1300
01:23:14,040 --> 01:23:17,280
Christ.
I thought the part about

1301
01:23:17,280 --> 01:23:19,880
surrendering to a higher power.
Yes.

1302
01:23:20,880 --> 01:23:24,960
So the church actually.
So one thing interesting about a

1303
01:23:25,080 --> 01:23:27,360
A is they were started by a
Christian group.

1304
01:23:27,560 --> 01:23:31,160
They had a lot of really hard
Christian messages in it.

1305
01:23:31,160 --> 01:23:32,560
And now they've slowly removed
it.

1306
01:23:34,120 --> 01:23:39,320
I wanna don't quote me on the
year, but the LDS church came to

1307
01:23:39,320 --> 01:23:42,040
them and said, hey, do you mind
if we borrow these steps, kind

1308
01:23:42,040 --> 01:23:44,760
of doctor them up a little bit
and use them for our people?

1309
01:23:44,760 --> 01:23:48,360
And they said yes.
So that's kind of like the

1310
01:23:48,360 --> 01:23:50,120
basis.
This is the starting point.

1311
01:23:50,120 --> 01:23:52,320
I like to start everybody.
Like, if you don't know where to

1312
01:23:52,320 --> 01:23:55,520
start, you start with these
steps and then we can kind of

1313
01:23:55,520 --> 01:23:58,560
teach you other things.
Let's let's talk about that

1314
01:23:58,560 --> 01:24:00,520
step.
What does it look like for an

1315
01:24:00,520 --> 01:24:04,600
addict to surrender to Christ or
to a higher power?

1316
01:24:05,240 --> 01:24:09,640
Yeah, so this is getting into
steps kind of 1-2 and three,

1317
01:24:09,640 --> 01:24:14,600
which is honesty, hope and trust
in God.

1318
01:24:15,440 --> 01:24:19,920
And that's really all these kind
of work in tandem.

1319
01:24:20,920 --> 01:24:27,640
And but so you have you first
recognize there's a problem and

1320
01:24:27,640 --> 01:24:33,360
then you have hope that Jesus
can in fact, and you have to do

1321
01:24:33,360 --> 01:24:37,680
this consciously, can in fact
save you from what you've done.

1322
01:24:39,400 --> 01:24:41,120
You have to believe in the
atonement.

1323
01:24:41,240 --> 01:24:46,080
This is when I've had people,
they say they believe it, but

1324
01:24:46,080 --> 01:24:48,840
then when you actually challenge
them on it, like we used to have

1325
01:24:48,840 --> 01:24:52,720
a picture of Jesus Christ and
say, look at him, do you believe

1326
01:24:52,720 --> 01:24:56,720
he can save you?
And they've been, they looked at

1327
01:24:56,720 --> 01:24:58,960
him for a moment, you see tears.
Well, open their eyes and they

1328
01:24:58,960 --> 01:25:03,640
go, no.
And then we had to kind of work

1329
01:25:03,640 --> 01:25:07,520
with them.
It's like, do you believe that

1330
01:25:07,520 --> 01:25:12,800
he would save your baby brother
or somebody else?

1331
01:25:12,800 --> 01:25:15,960
And they all of the time without
failure, they'll say yes.

1332
01:25:16,720 --> 01:25:20,400
They'll say that yes, that
person deserves forgiveness for

1333
01:25:20,400 --> 01:25:23,960
something bad that they've done.
And that thing might be even

1334
01:25:23,960 --> 01:25:29,920
less, I mean, might be even more
than what than I've done and or

1335
01:25:29,920 --> 01:25:34,280
anybody else in the room.
And like I was saying earlier,

1336
01:25:34,280 --> 01:25:37,240
it's interesting how much of A
critic we are to ourselves.

1337
01:25:38,080 --> 01:25:40,880
And I personally think it's it's
because of our spirits.

1338
01:25:41,120 --> 01:25:45,920
I think on a spiritual level, we
know what this is doing to us

1339
01:25:45,920 --> 01:25:48,920
when we do it.
We know when we lie.

1340
01:25:48,920 --> 01:25:52,400
We know when we do this and any
addiction.

1341
01:25:52,400 --> 01:25:58,760
But porn specifically, and I've
had several of my, of my

1342
01:25:58,760 --> 01:26:02,680
teachers tell me this, that
there's nothing that will

1343
01:26:02,680 --> 01:26:05,640
separate you more than the
spirit more than pornography.

1344
01:26:05,840 --> 01:26:07,760
It is such a work to get it
back.

1345
01:26:08,000 --> 01:26:11,240
And I've witnessed that for
myself is that you have to

1346
01:26:11,240 --> 01:26:16,280
really start investing heavy
into studying and all this to

1347
01:26:16,280 --> 01:26:18,680
get back to where you were with
this.

1348
01:26:19,640 --> 01:26:25,880
And so understanding that you
then have a problem and it's

1349
01:26:25,920 --> 01:26:29,320
your life has become
unmanageable, and then hoping

1350
01:26:29,680 --> 01:26:34,520
and having that beginning trust
in God and Jesus Christ that you

1351
01:26:34,520 --> 01:26:38,320
can be saved is where everything
starts.

1352
01:26:40,040 --> 01:26:41,680
Yeah.
And he could.

1353
01:26:41,680 --> 01:26:48,480
Recognize so, so kind of
recognizing that you can be.

1354
01:26:50,040 --> 01:26:52,120
Redeemed.
Helped through the atonement,

1355
01:26:52,120 --> 01:26:53,440
right?
That you're worthy of that.

1356
01:26:54,240 --> 01:26:58,000
Yeah.
And and so you do that through

1357
01:26:58,000 --> 01:26:59,760
kind of thought exercises,
right?

1358
01:26:59,760 --> 01:27:01,760
If it's good enough for your
brother, it's good enough for

1359
01:27:01,760 --> 01:27:03,720
you.
God's no respecter of persons.

1360
01:27:04,240 --> 01:27:07,320
And then understanding that that
you can, you can get there to

1361
01:27:07,320 --> 01:27:09,000
that.
OK.

1362
01:27:09,680 --> 01:27:13,360
So that's that's how you would
essentially surrender and and

1363
01:27:13,360 --> 01:27:16,720
start that is by recognizing
that you're going to need to

1364
01:27:16,720 --> 01:27:21,560
save yourself in this.
OK, So what would be the next

1365
01:27:21,560 --> 01:27:26,440
steps?
Next step is truth, confession

1366
01:27:26,440 --> 01:27:34,360
and become eternally entirely
ready to have God remove all

1367
01:27:34,360 --> 01:27:36,920
your character weaknesses.
This is the next three.

1368
01:27:37,320 --> 01:27:40,680
And so let, let's, let's, let's
start with the first one there,

1369
01:27:40,680 --> 01:27:42,520
right?
I don't want to just lump 3

1370
01:27:42,520 --> 01:27:44,680
together here.
I, I think these, these are

1371
01:27:44,680 --> 01:27:47,320
important enough to, to take
individually.

1372
01:27:47,760 --> 01:27:49,440
So what was the first one there
again?

1373
01:27:50,040 --> 01:27:53,360
So truth.
So this is so and this one.

1374
01:27:53,440 --> 01:27:57,200
Explain how you apply that to or
someone would apply that and

1375
01:27:57,200 --> 01:28:01,200
trying to overcome addiction.
So this is when, and again with

1376
01:28:01,200 --> 01:28:07,640
guilt not shame, you become very
aware of the extent of your

1377
01:28:07,640 --> 01:28:11,640
addiction.
Usually we ask people to make a

1378
01:28:11,640 --> 01:28:16,120
journaling of every time they
remember and where they were in

1379
01:28:16,960 --> 01:28:21,200
what they in every time they
used.

1380
01:28:21,400 --> 01:28:27,720
As we like to say, to really
grasp the full extent that you

1381
01:28:27,720 --> 01:28:31,560
are addicted to this.
Like some person will say, OK, I

1382
01:28:31,560 --> 01:28:37,480
used 60 times over the next
three months and then we say

1383
01:28:37,480 --> 01:28:41,200
where you were, what happened
and what is this is a big part

1384
01:28:41,200 --> 01:28:44,760
of this is pattern recognition.
You really start to understand

1385
01:28:45,280 --> 01:28:51,720
the patterns of why you are
using of the things that you

1386
01:28:51,720 --> 01:28:55,840
also understand of who you might
have hurt, right?

1387
01:28:57,000 --> 01:28:59,200
You got to, you got to make a
list of that.

1388
01:28:59,760 --> 01:29:01,640
So that's the, that's the next
step for that.

1389
01:29:02,760 --> 01:29:07,120
You know, it's interesting.
Truth.

1390
01:29:07,560 --> 01:29:10,920
We always say truth will set us
free, and it will.

1391
01:29:12,480 --> 01:29:16,400
But in situations like this,
and, and I can speak from

1392
01:29:16,400 --> 01:29:18,800
personal experience about this,
it wasn't so much about

1393
01:29:18,800 --> 01:29:21,640
addiction as it was learning
that I was living in a way that

1394
01:29:21,640 --> 01:29:25,640
was contrary to what God wanted
for me and other people.

1395
01:29:27,320 --> 01:29:30,320
But it, it's going to make, it
could make you miserable first,

1396
01:29:30,880 --> 01:29:33,120
right?
And it's important to recognize

1397
01:29:33,120 --> 01:29:36,680
that.
And that's healthy to to sit

1398
01:29:36,680 --> 01:29:41,680
there for a moment and realize,
oh, I, I, I, I am.

1399
01:29:42,240 --> 01:29:44,520
I screwed up.
Yeah, I screwed up.

1400
01:29:44,840 --> 01:29:47,840
That's an uncomfortable place to
be, but it's it's absolutely

1401
01:29:47,840 --> 01:29:50,280
necessary.
So, so that's what truth would

1402
01:29:50,280 --> 01:29:55,120
be is, is becoming aware that
you have you've, you've kind of

1403
01:29:55,120 --> 01:29:59,280
messed up and that there needs
to be some, some action taken

1404
01:29:59,280 --> 01:30:02,320
and, and understanding that not
only have you hurt yourself,

1405
01:30:02,320 --> 01:30:05,480
you've hurt other people and,
and sitting with that.

1406
01:30:06,000 --> 01:30:08,360
So after someone does that,
what's the next step?

1407
01:30:10,400 --> 01:30:14,520
This one's a hard one.
Admit to yourself, to your

1408
01:30:14,520 --> 01:30:19,520
Heavenly Father and the people
that you have harmed and asked

1409
01:30:19,520 --> 01:30:24,800
for their forgiveness.
That's one that's rough.

1410
01:30:25,200 --> 01:30:29,840
The A A has a thing where you
only confess if you can actually

1411
01:30:29,840 --> 01:30:31,840
help.
There are some.

1412
01:30:32,080 --> 01:30:36,520
There are some people that we
hurt that we just can't help

1413
01:30:36,520 --> 01:30:40,200
them, but we still need to
confess it, We still need to be

1414
01:30:40,200 --> 01:30:44,040
willing to help any way we can,
right?

1415
01:30:44,880 --> 01:30:47,560
And that's a real hard one for
people.

1416
01:30:47,560 --> 01:30:53,360
Because so explain to me, let's
say it's someone who comes in, I

1417
01:30:53,360 --> 01:30:55,400
don't know, pick the addiction.
Someone comes in with the

1418
01:30:55,400 --> 01:30:57,400
addiction.
And when they get to this step,

1419
01:30:58,240 --> 01:31:00,440
what's that going to look like
for them?

1420
01:31:00,800 --> 01:31:03,680
Is this like the Apology Tour
2026?

1421
01:31:03,680 --> 01:31:05,920
I mean like what what What does
this look like?

1422
01:31:06,400 --> 01:31:08,720
It's pretty close.
It really it's tailored to the

1423
01:31:08,720 --> 01:31:11,600
individual and their individual
sins in life.

1424
01:31:11,920 --> 01:31:17,960
But basically you have to go
through and find out where you

1425
01:31:17,960 --> 01:31:22,800
can help and, and do and you
confess.

1426
01:31:22,960 --> 01:31:25,600
Like for me, that was going to
my parents.

1427
01:31:26,600 --> 01:31:29,080
I brought that sin under their
roof.

1428
01:31:30,160 --> 01:31:31,960
I had to take responsibility for
that.

1429
01:31:32,760 --> 01:31:36,640
That was my burden to bear.
I had to go and confess that and

1430
01:31:36,640 --> 01:31:40,240
eventually my dad rededicated
the house and make sure that we

1431
01:31:40,240 --> 01:31:52,120
lived in a spiritual place.
And yeah, it's it's having the

1432
01:31:54,000 --> 01:31:59,800
basically willing to take on as
much trying to fix as much as

1433
01:31:59,800 --> 01:32:03,120
you can, right.
It's one thing I noticed in the

1434
01:32:03,440 --> 01:32:06,560
in the scripture is that we may
have been forgiven from our

1435
01:32:06,560 --> 01:32:09,800
sins, but we still need to take
accountability for them.

1436
01:32:11,000 --> 01:32:14,320
Yeah, yeah, forgiveness does not
mean all the consequences go

1437
01:32:14,320 --> 01:32:15,400
away.
Exactly.

1438
01:32:15,400 --> 01:32:17,200
Right.
Some of the some of the

1439
01:32:17,200 --> 01:32:20,400
consequences will, but there's
others that that will stick

1440
01:32:20,400 --> 01:32:22,560
around.
The worst consequences will and

1441
01:32:22,560 --> 01:32:25,480
that's the fact of not being
able to see our Heavenly parents

1442
01:32:25,480 --> 01:32:28,000
ever again.
Like, that's right, that that

1443
01:32:28,000 --> 01:32:31,720
may not seem like it in the
moment, but Christian will

1444
01:32:31,720 --> 01:32:37,880
always say this is when he went
on his journey of really trying

1445
01:32:37,880 --> 01:32:44,440
to help everybody that he stole
from or that he actually hurts

1446
01:32:44,760 --> 01:32:50,000
in that way.
So, so with that, part of that

1447
01:32:50,000 --> 01:32:51,800
was confessing it.
Yep.

1448
01:32:52,440 --> 01:32:59,440
That's to me, I think that's the
hardest part for people to to

1449
01:32:59,440 --> 01:33:01,160
get through is the confession,
right?

1450
01:33:01,520 --> 01:33:04,200
Because it's one thing.
It's one thing to recognize it

1451
01:33:04,200 --> 01:33:08,200
within yourself, right?
That truth part to to to make

1452
01:33:08,200 --> 01:33:10,880
the self admission.
It's another thing to say the

1453
01:33:10,880 --> 01:33:11,720
words out loud.
Oh, yeah.

1454
01:33:13,400 --> 01:33:20,120
But but I want to ask this
question because I think this

1455
01:33:20,120 --> 01:33:22,280
will illuminate why it's so
important.

1456
01:33:23,680 --> 01:33:26,920
Zach is you would go to your
parents and you would confess

1457
01:33:26,920 --> 01:33:30,760
something.
What was the feeling like

1458
01:33:31,560 --> 01:33:39,360
before, during and after?
Absolute dread before, surprise

1459
01:33:39,720 --> 01:33:45,160
during, and then relief after.
OK, explain the dread.

1460
01:33:46,040 --> 01:33:48,840
The dread.
Is your mind starts going, the

1461
01:33:48,840 --> 01:33:51,880
devil is always trying to tell
you like, oh, they're going to

1462
01:33:51,880 --> 01:33:57,440
do the horrible case scenario,
you're going to be yelled at,

1463
01:33:57,880 --> 01:34:01,040
they're going to hate you, all
these things.

1464
01:34:01,760 --> 01:34:09,240
And then there was the in
between the relief and the

1465
01:34:09,240 --> 01:34:12,800
surprise.
I would always be surprised and

1466
01:34:13,200 --> 01:34:14,920
I have great parents.
Don't get me wrong.

1467
01:34:14,920 --> 01:34:16,600
I have absolutely amazing
parents.

1468
01:34:18,400 --> 01:34:22,440
And it was really the thing that
hurt most is knowing that I let

1469
01:34:22,440 --> 01:34:26,080
them down.
That's something that really

1470
01:34:26,080 --> 01:34:27,720
stoned.
And I think on a spiritual

1471
01:34:27,720 --> 01:34:32,760
level, we all have this with our
Heavenly Father too, is we know

1472
01:34:33,320 --> 01:34:39,040
we did something wrong and
that's it hurts.

1473
01:34:39,560 --> 01:34:42,920
And so we try to avoid it.
We try to really distance

1474
01:34:42,920 --> 01:34:49,400
ourselves from that.
But when we do that, we do more

1475
01:34:49,400 --> 01:34:56,600
harm than good and we have to
take accountability for that and

1476
01:34:56,600 --> 01:35:00,080
so.
Explain the surprise that you

1477
01:35:00,080 --> 01:35:02,240
would feel.
What were you surprised about?

1478
01:35:03,600 --> 01:35:05,680
They wouldn't react like that.
They react in love.

1479
01:35:06,120 --> 01:35:09,240
They would say, yeah, that sucks
that you did that, but we still

1480
01:35:09,240 --> 01:35:10,720
love you.
We're not going to throw you out

1481
01:35:10,720 --> 01:35:12,600
of the house or anything.
Jurassic like that.

1482
01:35:13,120 --> 01:35:15,920
Most of the time I don't, I
don't think they ever yelled at

1483
01:35:15,920 --> 01:35:18,560
me.
They they never yelled at me and

1484
01:35:19,080 --> 01:35:22,440
like did that.
It was always like, what can we

1485
01:35:22,440 --> 01:35:28,680
do to help?
And that was and granted, not

1486
01:35:28,680 --> 01:35:32,160
every parent unfortunately is
not is going to react that way.

1487
01:35:32,800 --> 01:35:36,600
And that's a tough situation to
be in.

1488
01:35:37,040 --> 01:35:41,440
And if that's the case, you do
got to tell your parents

1489
01:35:41,440 --> 01:35:44,320
eventually.
But find a good friend I found

1490
01:35:44,320 --> 01:35:47,280
is more effective is finding a
good friend that you can talk to

1491
01:35:47,280 --> 01:35:51,080
these things about.
You know, I want to, I want to

1492
01:35:51,080 --> 01:35:54,320
share a story that I remember
from when I was just a boy.

1493
01:35:55,920 --> 01:36:01,520
So my old man grew up, He was
born in 47, you know, raised in

1494
01:36:01,520 --> 01:36:04,000
on a dairy farm in the upper
Midwest.

1495
01:36:06,360 --> 01:36:11,320
Not exactly a time period known
for their their softness, right?

1496
01:36:11,560 --> 01:36:16,520
A little more gruff and rough
around the edges is it's kind of

1497
01:36:16,520 --> 01:36:19,000
the parenting style of the time.
Yeah.

1498
01:36:19,720 --> 01:36:22,520
But my dad somehow escaped that.
I don't understand it.

1499
01:36:22,800 --> 01:36:26,800
I, I, I know from stories his
dad was pretty rough and but

1500
01:36:26,800 --> 01:36:31,240
somehow my dad wasn't.
And so there was always a lot of

1501
01:36:31,240 --> 01:36:34,200
playful banter between my father
and I, right?

1502
01:36:34,240 --> 01:36:36,880
And he would instigate most of
it, right?

1503
01:36:36,880 --> 01:36:39,600
And then teach me how to respond
in kind, right?

1504
01:36:39,600 --> 01:36:41,360
So there was always some playful
banter.

1505
01:36:41,360 --> 01:36:43,760
Now I always, I always respected
him.

1506
01:36:43,760 --> 01:36:47,400
I knew there was a line that you
didn't cross right, But

1507
01:36:47,400 --> 01:36:50,760
nonetheless there was there was
a respectful, playful banter

1508
01:36:50,760 --> 01:36:56,800
between him and I, and I
remember his We had a somebody

1509
01:36:56,800 --> 01:37:04,320
over and my dad and I had been
playfully jabbing one another

1510
01:37:04,320 --> 01:37:07,640
verbally.
And I went into my room and I

1511
01:37:07,640 --> 01:37:11,080
left the door open.
And the guy my dad had over

1512
01:37:11,080 --> 01:37:14,120
said, oh, Dave, you can't, you
can't be doing that with your

1513
01:37:14,120 --> 01:37:15,640
son.
You need to instill a little

1514
01:37:15,640 --> 01:37:19,160
more fear in your son.
And I remember hearing my dad's,

1515
01:37:20,080 --> 01:37:22,280
I remember hearing my dad's
response.

1516
01:37:22,280 --> 01:37:25,320
And he's like, well, that's one
way of looking at it.

1517
01:37:25,320 --> 01:37:28,680
But I think what I'm doing is is
superior to that.

1518
01:37:29,720 --> 01:37:30,960
And the guys we're playing with
him.

1519
01:37:31,760 --> 01:37:34,160
Well, my, my dad, the guy said
why?

1520
01:37:34,160 --> 01:37:37,120
And my dad said, well, my son
respects me.

1521
01:37:37,200 --> 01:37:39,440
How do I know he respects me?
Because I've told him that

1522
01:37:39,440 --> 01:37:41,720
there's lines that he can't
cross and he doesn't cross them.

1523
01:37:44,160 --> 01:37:46,720
And so he doesn't have to fear
me if he respects me.

1524
01:37:47,720 --> 01:37:49,360
And the guy said, well, what's
the difference?

1525
01:37:49,360 --> 01:37:52,000
He said, if my son fears me when
he's in trouble, he's not going

1526
01:37:52,000 --> 01:37:55,120
to come to me.
If he respects me if he's in

1527
01:37:55,120 --> 01:37:58,800
trouble, he'll come find me.
And that was something that left

1528
01:37:58,880 --> 01:38:02,040
a massive impression on me.
And it sounds like it's

1529
01:38:02,040 --> 01:38:05,680
something that your parents were
keenly aware of, right?

1530
01:38:05,720 --> 01:38:07,920
That difference between fear and
respect.

1531
01:38:07,920 --> 01:38:11,440
And certainly I want to say that
a healthy fear can be a good

1532
01:38:11,440 --> 01:38:15,120
thing, but respect should be the
opera, the the preferred

1533
01:38:15,120 --> 01:38:18,640
operating system there.
Yeah, and unfortunately, I do

1534
01:38:18,640 --> 01:38:22,760
know, I've heard a few stories
where unfortunately that wasn't

1535
01:38:22,760 --> 01:38:28,080
the case, where their kid, their
parents really tried to install

1536
01:38:28,080 --> 01:38:33,920
an era of fear in them and like
you said, and made it so the

1537
01:38:34,760 --> 01:38:36,600
the, the kid.
That's the thing that's

1538
01:38:36,600 --> 01:38:39,600
interesting too, is that kids
are going to find their needs

1539
01:38:40,280 --> 01:38:43,960
whether you want them to or not.
And if you're not going to

1540
01:38:43,960 --> 01:38:45,960
supply them, they're going to
find them somewhere else.

1541
01:38:46,560 --> 01:38:50,360
So you can you can make that
choice to either be part of that

1542
01:38:50,360 --> 01:38:53,840
or not.
Now explain to me what your

1543
01:38:53,840 --> 01:38:58,960
sensation, what most people say
their sensation is after they've

1544
01:38:58,960 --> 01:39:03,920
confessed.
There's such a weight lifted.

1545
01:39:05,760 --> 01:39:12,680
I, I tell this story a lot in
Group and it's, and I, I usually

1546
01:39:12,680 --> 01:39:16,360
take this story too and teach
the kids is there was one time

1547
01:39:16,640 --> 01:39:19,360
where I was going through such
hard time.

1548
01:39:19,360 --> 01:39:23,480
I had gone a really long time
without relapsing and I did not

1549
01:39:23,480 --> 01:39:27,200
want to relapse.
And, but the wave was just on

1550
01:39:27,200 --> 01:39:30,960
me.
It was like 100 lbs of bricks on

1551
01:39:30,960 --> 01:39:33,680
my back.
My heart was aching.

1552
01:39:33,680 --> 01:39:40,360
It was, I was in physical pain.
It really sucked and I get to

1553
01:39:40,360 --> 01:39:45,880
the point where I would really
want to and I'd fight it off and

1554
01:39:45,880 --> 01:39:48,000
really want to and then find off
and then I just hear the Spirit

1555
01:39:48,160 --> 01:39:56,480
call Christian so went and
called him and he did something

1556
01:39:56,480 --> 01:40:03,840
that was one second.
Sorry, he did something.

1557
01:40:04,120 --> 01:40:06,240
He told me.
You're going to have to trust

1558
01:40:06,240 --> 01:40:09,040
me.
I need you to go to a gas

1559
01:40:09,040 --> 01:40:12,480
station.
I'm like, why on earth do I do I

1560
01:40:12,480 --> 01:40:14,480
I don't even want to go to the
house.

1561
01:40:14,480 --> 01:40:15,680
Why you tell me go to gas
station.

1562
01:40:15,680 --> 01:40:17,360
He says, just trust me.
Call me when you're there.

1563
01:40:17,800 --> 01:40:20,200
It's like, fine, I go to my
favorite gas station.

1564
01:40:20,480 --> 01:40:22,560
As I find out later, that was a
little bit of a mistake.

1565
01:40:22,680 --> 01:40:26,400
But I call him and I'm like, OK,
what do you want me to do now?

1566
01:40:26,680 --> 01:40:32,160
And he says, I want you to ask
the spirit who to tell and Share

1567
01:40:32,200 --> 01:40:36,800
your story.
I go, OK, whatever.

1568
01:40:37,720 --> 01:40:44,480
And I pray about it and I get
the impression tell the cash

1569
01:40:44,480 --> 01:40:47,560
register person, I knew this
lady.

1570
01:40:47,680 --> 01:40:51,160
I had seen her multiple times.
I'm going to see her multiple

1571
01:40:51,160 --> 01:40:53,400
times.
I'm thinking this there.

1572
01:40:53,640 --> 01:40:57,200
She's moved on since.
But I was like, you got to be

1573
01:40:57,200 --> 01:41:01,040
kidding me.
No freaking way am I doing that.

1574
01:41:02,040 --> 01:41:04,840
This is after I got off the
phone with him and I prayed

1575
01:41:04,840 --> 01:41:07,280
about it, got the confirmation.
And then I'm like, there's no

1576
01:41:07,280 --> 01:41:08,960
way I'm doing that.
Absolutely not.

1577
01:41:08,960 --> 01:41:11,600
Still having the pain and the
bricks and all that stuff.

1578
01:41:12,440 --> 01:41:16,400
And then I wrestle with the
spirit for about 5 to 10 minutes

1579
01:41:16,600 --> 01:41:19,040
and then I hear just go get a
water.

1580
01:41:19,520 --> 01:41:21,920
I'm like, fine, I can go get a
water.

1581
01:41:22,560 --> 01:41:27,640
I go in there by the water, get
the prompting, tell her your

1582
01:41:27,640 --> 01:41:29,520
story.
And I'm like, Nope.

1583
01:41:29,800 --> 01:41:34,280
And I end up going back in my
truck and end up drinking part

1584
01:41:34,280 --> 01:41:38,200
of the water bottle.
And then I was like, fine.

1585
01:41:39,920 --> 01:41:49,120
I end up getting out of my
truck, going inside and I end up

1586
01:41:49,320 --> 01:41:52,680
telling her my story and my
struggles with addiction.

1587
01:41:53,480 --> 01:41:58,000
And I will never forget.
It was like someone taking off

1588
01:41:58,600 --> 01:42:01,440
what with every word, those
bricks.

1589
01:42:03,440 --> 01:42:06,880
And I'm like, what the heck is
this?

1590
01:42:07,640 --> 01:42:10,360
Like I'd had I'd had relief from
my parents before, but nothing

1591
01:42:10,360 --> 01:42:12,440
like this.
This is absolutely something

1592
01:42:12,440 --> 01:42:17,880
completely different.
And I try and then group was, I

1593
01:42:17,880 --> 01:42:20,120
think he was either the next day
or the day after.

1594
01:42:20,120 --> 01:42:23,360
And I'm like, I need to find
there, like this is such a big

1595
01:42:23,360 --> 01:42:25,760
answer.
I need to find what the cause of

1596
01:42:25,760 --> 01:42:31,200
this was.
And Christian doesn't end up

1597
01:42:31,200 --> 01:42:35,400
being there that day.
And the person that was there

1598
01:42:35,400 --> 01:42:37,520
hadn't hadn't experienced
anything like this, so they

1599
01:42:37,520 --> 01:42:39,520
didn't know.
And I'm like, what the heck?

1600
01:42:39,520 --> 01:42:41,200
So I'm like, he's not getting
away from this.

1601
01:42:41,240 --> 01:42:44,240
I am calling him.
So I call him demanding the

1602
01:42:44,240 --> 01:42:46,520
answer.
Why did this work?

1603
01:42:47,520 --> 01:42:52,200
I'll never forget what he said.
He said you served her.

1604
01:42:53,640 --> 01:42:56,760
And I was like, what?
And then it flashed in my mind

1605
01:42:56,760 --> 01:42:59,880
after I got done sharing my
story, she shared her story and

1606
01:42:59,880 --> 01:43:02,920
the problems she had with her
sons and the love she felt with

1607
01:43:02,920 --> 01:43:04,640
them.
And she got to express that.

1608
01:43:05,200 --> 01:43:10,480
And he expressed to me, service
lies in the prefrontal cortex,

1609
01:43:11,240 --> 01:43:14,760
not the amygdala.
When you are serving somebody,

1610
01:43:15,760 --> 01:43:17,680
you can't be anxious.
You can't.

1611
01:43:17,680 --> 01:43:23,480
If it's genuine service, you
cannot be in fear or anything

1612
01:43:23,480 --> 01:43:25,200
like that.
It's literally a switch.

1613
01:43:25,200 --> 01:43:30,160
You're doing one or the other.
And I'm like, holy cow.

1614
01:43:30,800 --> 01:43:34,320
And then I started implementing
that in my life and it was

1615
01:43:34,320 --> 01:43:39,120
crazy.
The human body is designed to

1616
01:43:39,120 --> 01:43:46,400
serve if used correctly, and
we're designed to take advantage

1617
01:43:46,400 --> 01:43:47,960
of that.
And we don't.

1618
01:43:48,560 --> 01:43:53,640
And so then it was just a matter
of, OK, how can I maximize

1619
01:43:53,640 --> 01:43:59,000
service versus maximizing
thinking about myself and

1620
01:43:59,240 --> 01:44:02,920
completely changed my life.
That was.

1621
01:44:02,920 --> 01:44:06,480
So it's a game changer.
So there there's, there's a

1622
01:44:06,480 --> 01:44:08,200
little bit to unpack there,
right?

1623
01:44:08,440 --> 01:44:12,360
Yep.
First off, you need, you know,

1624
01:44:12,640 --> 01:44:15,560
you need to have people around
you that you can confess to.

1625
01:44:16,600 --> 01:44:19,920
But this idea of you sharing
your trial as an act of service

1626
01:44:19,920 --> 01:44:25,560
to somebody else, again, we live
in a world that's largely fake.

1627
01:44:26,440 --> 01:44:32,720
Fake food, fake struggle, fake
happiness go down the list.

1628
01:44:32,720 --> 01:44:38,160
It's a digital world where real
voices just go to be absorbed

1629
01:44:38,160 --> 01:44:43,760
and died.
You need somebody that you can

1630
01:44:43,760 --> 01:44:48,840
go to, that you can talk to.
And when you encounter something

1631
01:44:48,840 --> 01:44:53,760
real in a world that's as fake
as ours is now, it's

1632
01:44:53,760 --> 01:44:57,440
therapeutic, right?
And so when you can crack, when

1633
01:44:57,440 --> 01:45:02,440
you can can tell your story in a
way that others resonate with

1634
01:45:02,560 --> 01:45:05,360
and be willing to share that
it's absolutely an active

1635
01:45:05,360 --> 01:45:07,760
service.
I think so often.

1636
01:45:08,760 --> 01:45:11,560
And, and I, I remember I had
this, it was a it was an

1637
01:45:11,560 --> 01:45:14,760
impression.
I remember it was the second

1638
01:45:14,760 --> 01:45:16,960
time I was called as an older
scorn president.

1639
01:45:18,360 --> 01:45:22,640
And I was standing up and I was
talking to him just conducting

1640
01:45:22,640 --> 01:45:26,320
some business.
And out of nowhere, I mean, mid

1641
01:45:26,320 --> 01:45:28,840
sentences thought just came to
me.

1642
01:45:29,360 --> 01:45:32,240
Every one of these guys are
struggling with something, but

1643
01:45:32,240 --> 01:45:35,520
they're afraid to admit it
because they don't want to look

1644
01:45:35,520 --> 01:45:40,640
weak, right?
And it was only months later

1645
01:45:40,680 --> 01:45:45,280
when I was trying to figure out
how to extract that, get them

1646
01:45:45,280 --> 01:45:51,880
to, to be more, more vulnerable
that the service of that is that

1647
01:45:51,880 --> 01:45:55,360
it signals to everyone else.
Well, OK, so I have a similar

1648
01:45:55,360 --> 01:45:58,240
problem where I have a problem.
It's like that, but not quite.

1649
01:45:58,920 --> 01:46:02,240
And the, the recognition that,
hey, we're, we're all struggling

1650
01:46:02,240 --> 01:46:03,840
here.
We're all sick, right?

1651
01:46:04,160 --> 01:46:08,920
It's, it's a funny ploy because
we all go to church and at some

1652
01:46:08,920 --> 01:46:12,840
level there's, you know, you're,
you're putting on your best

1653
01:46:12,840 --> 01:46:18,400
clothes, you're also putting on
your best face to, to kind of

1654
01:46:18,440 --> 01:46:20,600
hide what's really going on,
right.

1655
01:46:21,000 --> 01:46:28,440
And so we've turned our churches
into museums or mausoleums.

1656
01:46:28,880 --> 01:46:32,200
They're beautiful.
They're they're, they're,

1657
01:46:32,400 --> 01:46:39,360
they're nice to sit in.
But as I've read the Gospels and

1658
01:46:39,360 --> 01:46:43,080
I and I've studied the restored
Gospel, our churches shouldn't

1659
01:46:43,080 --> 01:46:46,600
be museums and mausoleums, they
should be hospitals.

1660
01:46:47,480 --> 01:46:51,000
Or places of inspiration.
They should be places we go to

1661
01:46:51,000 --> 01:46:54,160
be healed.
All of us have a sickness of one

1662
01:46:54,160 --> 01:46:58,720
form or another that requires
the healing arts of the Great

1663
01:46:58,720 --> 01:47:04,360
Physician to heal those up.
And we need to stop judging

1664
01:47:04,360 --> 01:47:06,800
other people and we need to
stop.

1665
01:47:07,040 --> 01:47:09,400
We need to be willing to listen
to what they're going through.

1666
01:47:10,320 --> 01:47:13,560
I want to share a story that of
when I was living back East.

1667
01:47:13,920 --> 01:47:18,320
So I moved back to, I moved to
Maryland for, for about 3 years.

1668
01:47:19,680 --> 01:47:23,800
And while I was in Maryland,
like the first Sunday at we went

1669
01:47:23,800 --> 01:47:26,680
to church, like Mormons get kind
of sparse east of the

1670
01:47:26,680 --> 01:47:30,360
Mississippi.
And so we had to drive 30.

1671
01:47:30,400 --> 01:47:32,720
Our, our ward house was 30
minutes away.

1672
01:47:32,720 --> 01:47:35,960
We had to make the drive every
Sunday and I show up the first

1673
01:47:35,960 --> 01:47:38,800
Sunday and they're like, oh,
are, are you just investigating?

1674
01:47:38,800 --> 01:47:41,400
I'm like, no, we, we just moved
from from Idaho and they're

1675
01:47:41,400 --> 01:47:45,480
like, wait, wait, you're, you're
like a Mormon from from the from

1676
01:47:45,480 --> 01:47:49,320
the Mormon belt.
Oh, you must be bringing glad

1677
01:47:49,320 --> 01:47:51,720
tidings, right.
Like, you know, it was a big

1678
01:47:51,720 --> 01:47:57,160
deal and then I didn't realize
it, but I was I was called into

1679
01:47:57,160 --> 01:48:02,440
to as elders corn president like
that day, but.

1680
01:48:03,200 --> 01:48:07,120
I.
Remember, I was in that ward and

1681
01:48:07,120 --> 01:48:12,280
we were having a ward conference
and we had a ton of

1682
01:48:12,280 --> 01:48:16,080
investigators there and many of
them smoked, right?

1683
01:48:16,800 --> 01:48:20,560
And so our ward house smelt like
a chimney, right?

1684
01:48:20,560 --> 01:48:23,600
I mean, it was it.
There was a lot of the smell of

1685
01:48:23,600 --> 01:48:27,320
smoke and I was asked to sit up
on the stand.

1686
01:48:27,320 --> 01:48:31,920
And so I was on the stand on the
opposite side of the the podium

1687
01:48:32,080 --> 01:48:35,760
or the pulpit from where the
stake president and the Bishop

1688
01:48:35,760 --> 01:48:38,240
was.
And I could tell the Bishop was

1689
01:48:38,240 --> 01:48:41,280
really uncomfortable.
And the Bishop was a good guy,

1690
01:48:41,280 --> 01:48:43,920
but he was also a bit showy,
right?

1691
01:48:45,600 --> 01:48:48,320
You know, and I think some of
that was well-intentioned,

1692
01:48:48,320 --> 01:48:51,160
trying to set a good example,
but oftentimes it just fell

1693
01:48:51,160 --> 01:48:53,120
flat, right?
Didn't it was insecurities?

1694
01:48:54,000 --> 01:48:56,040
Yeah.
You could tell it was born out

1695
01:48:56,040 --> 01:48:59,240
of out of more of place of
being.

1696
01:48:59,880 --> 01:49:04,200
Of shame.
Disingenuous than than being

1697
01:49:04,200 --> 01:49:07,360
genuine.
And the meeting, the sacrament

1698
01:49:07,360 --> 01:49:10,680
meeting got over and I got up
and I was just walking by the

1699
01:49:10,680 --> 01:49:14,240
Bishop and the state president
and the Bishop gets up.

1700
01:49:14,240 --> 01:49:16,560
He's like, I am so sorry.
Our war house smelt the way it

1701
01:49:16,560 --> 01:49:18,080
did.
We have a lot of investigators

1702
01:49:18,120 --> 01:49:21,320
and and the state president, to
his credit, just raised his hand

1703
01:49:21,320 --> 01:49:23,160
just kind of like this, like
stop.

1704
01:49:23,760 --> 01:49:26,160
And he said, you know what that
smells like to me?

1705
01:49:26,160 --> 01:49:28,040
And he said what he said
repentance.

1706
01:49:28,080 --> 01:49:30,480
And I welcome it.
And if every one of our ward

1707
01:49:30,480 --> 01:49:33,000
houses smelled like this, but
there were people who were

1708
01:49:33,000 --> 01:49:36,200
spiritually sick getting
healthy, I'm here for it.

1709
01:49:37,760 --> 01:49:42,920
I think we have to recognize
that, that our churches and our

1710
01:49:42,920 --> 01:49:48,200
meetings need to be places where
the spiritually sick can

1711
01:49:48,200 --> 01:49:51,400
encounter the great healer.
Amen.

1712
01:49:51,600 --> 01:49:54,960
And it's, it's our, it's our job
for those of us who maybe aren't

1713
01:49:54,960 --> 01:49:59,120
struggling with, with bigger
things like that to try to set

1714
01:49:59,120 --> 01:50:04,120
our meetings to be a place where
they can encounter the savior,

1715
01:50:04,320 --> 01:50:06,560
because that's what will
ultimately change lives.

1716
01:50:06,880 --> 01:50:08,480
So that was, that was great
stuff.

1717
01:50:08,480 --> 01:50:11,440
That was a lot to unpack.
So what's what's the next step?

1718
01:50:13,040 --> 01:50:21,480
So after confession.
Become entirely ready to have

1719
01:50:21,480 --> 01:50:24,560
God remove all your character
weaknesses.

1720
01:50:26,000 --> 01:50:29,680
There's a really good I, I, we
usually have two videos that we

1721
01:50:29,680 --> 01:50:32,640
teach with this.
It's called God's Chisel by the

1722
01:50:32,640 --> 01:50:36,880
Skit boys and then the opposite
bicycle.

1723
01:50:37,440 --> 01:50:40,160
And have you seen those, any of
those?

1724
01:50:40,920 --> 01:50:42,480
I have not.
Gotcha, that's fair.

1725
01:50:43,520 --> 01:50:45,280
So God's chisel, this is really
interesting.

1726
01:50:45,280 --> 01:50:48,560
Where it's basically two people
doing a skit, one person's

1727
01:50:48,560 --> 01:50:50,640
pretending to be God, one
person's pretending to be more

1728
01:50:50,640 --> 01:50:53,240
of themself.
And he literally has a the God

1729
01:50:53,240 --> 01:50:57,080
has a chisel and hammer and he
starts chiseling away character

1730
01:50:57,080 --> 01:50:59,680
things.
And the person's like, that's

1731
01:50:59,680 --> 01:51:02,360
going to be painful to remove.
I'm not sure if I'm ready to

1732
01:51:02,360 --> 01:51:05,920
give that up yet.
You can take this like you can,

1733
01:51:06,080 --> 01:51:10,920
you can get rid of my, my big
belly, but you can't get rid of

1734
01:51:11,160 --> 01:51:14,560
my wanting to eat more and all
these other things.

1735
01:51:15,440 --> 01:51:20,320
And it was really, it's really
interesting to see the people

1736
01:51:20,320 --> 01:51:25,360
watch this because and I
resonate with it or every time I

1737
01:51:25,360 --> 01:51:29,160
watch it too of you go out to
ask yourself, you got to sit

1738
01:51:29,160 --> 01:51:31,960
yourself down.
This is where like the rubber

1739
01:51:31,960 --> 01:51:35,680
meets the road.
You got to ask yourself, are you

1740
01:51:35,680 --> 01:51:41,840
willing to give this up to
actually heal?

1741
01:51:43,200 --> 01:51:45,640
Because there's a lot of people
that aren't.

1742
01:51:46,560 --> 01:51:50,680
One thing that I found so
interesting is one of the things

1743
01:51:50,680 --> 01:51:58,800
that people really don't want to
give up is their music is, is

1744
01:51:58,800 --> 01:52:05,160
their simple pleasures.
And, and part of that is they

1745
01:52:05,160 --> 01:52:09,760
don't, they haven't attached
value to the recovery, right?

1746
01:52:09,760 --> 01:52:12,440
It's going to be, this will be a
little bit of a harsher lesson,

1747
01:52:12,720 --> 01:52:19,520
but like I'll ask somebody,
would you jump in a nice sponge?

1748
01:52:19,520 --> 01:52:21,360
And they say, no, I physically
cannot.

1749
01:52:21,680 --> 01:52:25,120
And I say, OK, would you get
your hand in if I gave you 50

1750
01:52:25,120 --> 01:52:27,600
bucks?
They say, no, not worth it.

1751
01:52:28,440 --> 01:52:31,720
What if I gave you, what if you
had to put jump in both feet,

1752
01:52:31,720 --> 01:52:34,200
not submerge anything for 1000?
Would you do that?

1753
01:52:34,600 --> 01:52:36,240
That gets them going a little
bit.

1754
01:52:36,600 --> 01:52:42,240
And I said, all right, what if I
paid you $500,000 to stay in

1755
01:52:42,240 --> 01:52:46,920
there, submerge up to the
shoulders for 45 seconds?

1756
01:52:47,840 --> 01:52:50,880
That really gets them thinking.
And it's not that they're

1757
01:52:50,960 --> 01:52:54,800
physically willing.
Not willing or physically able

1758
01:52:55,080 --> 01:53:00,840
because long as like anybody
who's read books of amazing

1759
01:53:00,840 --> 01:53:04,640
people that have overcome
amazing things, the human body

1760
01:53:04,880 --> 01:53:08,600
is incredible at what we could
accomplish.

1761
01:53:09,400 --> 01:53:16,120
Right.
I love, what's his name, the

1762
01:53:16,120 --> 01:53:18,160
Navy SEAL guy.
What is it?

1763
01:53:18,160 --> 01:53:20,600
Jocko Willink?
Yeah, Well, no, Jocko Willink's

1764
01:53:20,600 --> 01:53:23,520
really good.
But no, the other guy, Sean

1765
01:53:23,600 --> 01:53:27,760
Ryan, he's the one that lost
like 300 lbs in six months.

1766
01:53:28,400 --> 01:53:30,200
David Goggins.
Yeah, Goggins.

1767
01:53:30,200 --> 01:53:37,160
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
He ran a 100 mile marathon with

1768
01:53:37,840 --> 01:53:44,400
two broken shins and blood
trickling from.

1769
01:53:44,520 --> 01:53:47,760
There's another lesion, there's
another regions like absolute

1770
01:53:47,760 --> 01:53:49,600
pain.
And the dude pushed through it

1771
01:53:50,240 --> 01:53:53,600
and his life was absolute
garbage.

1772
01:53:53,600 --> 01:53:57,400
If anybody had an excuse to be a
statistic, he did.

1773
01:53:58,200 --> 01:54:02,400
And so I kind of look at that
and say, OK, he was willing to

1774
01:54:02,400 --> 01:54:05,480
give up those simple pleasures
to accomplish a goal.

1775
01:54:05,480 --> 01:54:08,880
He valued it.
He attached the what the emotion

1776
01:54:08,880 --> 01:54:13,520
of the 500,000.
He attached that kind of feeling

1777
01:54:13,760 --> 01:54:19,120
into overcoming whatever it was.
And people do not like to do

1778
01:54:19,120 --> 01:54:21,000
that.
It is hard to get them to change

1779
01:54:21,000 --> 01:54:26,440
that.
And but once you do, then it's

1780
01:54:26,440 --> 01:54:28,400
real.
It's it's less like the

1781
01:54:28,400 --> 01:54:32,040
pinnacle, like it's starting to
get easier after that point if

1782
01:54:32,040 --> 01:54:35,880
you can master that.
Absolutely, absolutely.

1783
01:54:35,880 --> 01:54:40,520
And again, going back to the
first part of our discussion,

1784
01:54:40,520 --> 01:54:43,240
it's, it's the ability to want
to sit with the pain a little

1785
01:54:43,280 --> 01:54:48,880
bit.
Yes, as as human beings we do a

1786
01:54:48,880 --> 01:54:51,640
lot within our power to avoid
pain and discomfort.

1787
01:54:52,080 --> 01:54:55,360
Right.
But we're we're bred for pain.

1788
01:54:56,080 --> 01:54:59,120
Yeah, yeah.
The, the, the truth of the

1789
01:54:59,120 --> 01:55:05,360
matter is, is it's the struggle
that we really need and and he

1790
01:55:05,360 --> 01:55:07,960
embodies that really well.
OK, that's good stuff.

1791
01:55:07,960 --> 01:55:09,720
Let's move on to the next steps,
Zach.

1792
01:55:11,480 --> 01:55:16,880
The next is I have that, just
make sure I'm not repeating.

1793
01:55:27,960 --> 01:55:31,960
So then after that is humility.
You have to be humble.

1794
01:55:32,360 --> 01:55:34,720
You have to be willing to
realize this is the point in the

1795
01:55:34,720 --> 01:55:36,680
journey where you know where you
are, you know where you're

1796
01:55:36,680 --> 01:55:38,920
going.
You need to stay humble so that

1797
01:55:38,920 --> 01:55:43,920
you actually stay in the work,
you stay in the things that you

1798
01:55:43,920 --> 01:55:52,000
need in order to keep going.
It's like some people like they

1799
01:55:52,400 --> 01:56:00,000
might, I use like a lot, and I
shouldn't they, they start on

1800
01:56:00,000 --> 01:56:04,480
this path, they give up it for a
time, but then I run back to it

1801
01:56:04,480 --> 01:56:07,600
and it's because of the pain.
They did a really interesting

1802
01:56:07,600 --> 01:56:11,320
thing about rats where they gave
them every time the rats would

1803
01:56:11,320 --> 01:56:15,760
push down a lever, a string of
cocaine would fall in, and

1804
01:56:15,760 --> 01:56:18,320
pretty soon the rat would keep
pressing that lever over and

1805
01:56:18,320 --> 01:56:20,320
over, and they stopped giving
them cocaine.

1806
01:56:20,320 --> 01:56:25,000
Eventually they quit pressing
the lever at the rats, but then

1807
01:56:25,000 --> 01:56:28,240
they'd give him a shock and the
rat would return to that lever

1808
01:56:28,240 --> 01:56:30,400
whether it was going to receive
cocaine or not, and it would

1809
01:56:30,960 --> 01:56:32,720
pound it harder than it's ever
had.

1810
01:56:33,400 --> 01:56:37,360
And you got to recognize that
that the devil is going to test

1811
01:56:37,360 --> 01:56:39,600
you.
The devil's going to see if you

1812
01:56:39,600 --> 01:56:44,640
really do care about giving this
up and you have to be committed

1813
01:56:44,640 --> 01:56:47,320
and you have to understand that
the trials are going to come.

1814
01:56:47,800 --> 01:56:54,360
You're going to be in it and you
got to be able to be with God

1815
01:56:54,520 --> 01:56:57,520
and to ride out the waves.
And we have some several

1816
01:56:57,520 --> 01:57:00,280
techniques and day-to-day things
that help with that.

1817
01:57:01,600 --> 01:57:02,760
What?
What are the techniques?

1818
01:57:03,360 --> 01:57:08,400
One thing is to actually
identify, and this is best done

1819
01:57:08,400 --> 01:57:12,240
with a person, but to actually
identify what the feeling is.

1820
01:57:12,440 --> 01:57:15,720
So I'll walk through myself a
little bit is with me.

1821
01:57:15,720 --> 01:57:20,280
It was the feeling of
worthlessness, right?

1822
01:57:21,040 --> 01:57:24,600
Identify where?
Where is that in the body with

1823
01:57:24,600 --> 01:57:26,120
me?
It's in the shoulders.

1824
01:57:26,120 --> 01:57:28,360
It's right here.
Does it have a color?

1825
01:57:28,360 --> 01:57:31,640
And it sounds super weird, but
you say the first thing that

1826
01:57:31,640 --> 01:57:34,960
comes to your mind for me, like
a black sludge.

1827
01:57:35,200 --> 01:57:38,120
Does it have a shape?
For me, it's a sphere that kind

1828
01:57:38,120 --> 01:57:44,360
of moves and and develops.
You can go deeper.

1829
01:57:44,360 --> 01:57:47,000
You can ask like, does it have a
voice or something like that?

1830
01:57:47,600 --> 01:57:51,320
And a lot of big names use this
technique.

1831
01:57:51,320 --> 01:57:52,400
That's another thing I've
noticed.

1832
01:57:52,400 --> 01:57:55,080
Like you ever research Sarah
Brewer?

1833
01:57:55,160 --> 01:57:58,640
She's fabulous.
She's on YouTube, she helps a

1834
01:57:58,640 --> 01:58:00,360
lot of people.
She uses this method.

1835
01:58:00,960 --> 01:58:04,160
Tony Robinson, for people who
know him, he's big in with this

1836
01:58:04,160 --> 01:58:06,520
method.
It's this does work and what it

1837
01:58:06,520 --> 01:58:10,440
does is it you actually identify
the feeling so that you are

1838
01:58:10,440 --> 01:58:13,480
completely aware when it's in
your body.

1839
01:58:14,960 --> 01:58:19,040
And then once you do that, you
identify what is it trying to

1840
01:58:19,040 --> 01:58:21,680
protect you from.
Right.

1841
01:58:22,360 --> 01:58:25,040
That's only after you've
identified it.

1842
01:58:25,040 --> 01:58:29,960
Only after, when you really
have, you can associate with it

1843
01:58:29,960 --> 01:58:32,920
and you know what it is.
And this is with anything, by

1844
01:58:32,920 --> 01:58:35,000
the way.
This is with lust, with hunger,

1845
01:58:35,160 --> 01:58:41,280
with everything you can, you
have to be able to identify what

1846
01:58:41,280 --> 01:58:44,160
it is and then be able to sit
with it 'cause it's trying to

1847
01:58:44,160 --> 01:58:47,080
protect you with something and
say thank you for doing that.

1848
01:58:47,600 --> 01:58:50,080
I got it.
I'm able.

1849
01:58:50,160 --> 01:58:53,560
There's no lion, there's no,
there's nothing that's actually

1850
01:58:53,560 --> 01:58:55,520
trying to kill me.
And that's what this is.

1851
01:58:55,520 --> 01:59:01,120
It's trying to protect me from
that, so let I.

1852
01:59:01,240 --> 01:59:03,840
So then you just observe it and
you kind of just sit with it.

1853
01:59:05,480 --> 01:59:07,400
I actually have a page for that.
Where is that?

1854
01:59:13,720 --> 01:59:20,560
Another thing we do halt BS.
And we kind of added this on

1855
01:59:20,560 --> 01:59:24,280
where you identify if you're
hungry, angry, lonely, tired,

1856
01:59:24,280 --> 01:59:31,480
bored or in shame, these things
are your, your body is actually

1857
01:59:31,480 --> 01:59:34,240
weaker.
And because it's weaker in some

1858
01:59:34,240 --> 01:59:39,360
form or fashion in this, you are
more susceptible to go back to

1859
01:59:39,360 --> 01:59:41,520
that craving.
It's like with the rat with the

1860
01:59:41,520 --> 01:59:43,480
electric shock.
It's going to return right back

1861
01:59:43,480 --> 01:59:46,920
to that pedal start pounding in
because that's what was the

1862
01:59:46,920 --> 01:59:50,000
solution, bad solution, but it
was still the solution.

1863
01:59:50,000 --> 01:59:52,680
So your body, your brain is
instantly going to try and go

1864
01:59:52,680 --> 02:00:02,360
back to it.
Then identify 3RS and that is

1865
02:00:02,360 --> 02:00:06,520
resentments, regrets or
realizations or excuse me,

1866
02:00:06,520 --> 02:00:09,400
rationalize.
So this is what people will do.

1867
02:00:09,640 --> 02:00:12,640
You have any questions so far?
Oh, OK.

1868
02:00:12,720 --> 02:00:17,840
OK.
So resentment is by far, I think

1869
02:00:19,000 --> 02:00:22,720
the biggest state for cause of
relapse in my personal

1870
02:00:22,720 --> 02:00:28,560
experience.
And that's because you're angry

1871
02:00:29,400 --> 02:00:36,400
and you're trying to, there are
problems of the past and that

1872
02:00:36,400 --> 02:00:40,600
stays in your body.
And like we talked about

1873
02:00:40,600 --> 02:00:45,240
earlier, it's also in a way
thinking that the atonement

1874
02:00:45,240 --> 02:00:48,760
doesn't apply to them, so you're
not willing to forgive them.

1875
02:00:49,520 --> 02:00:52,880
And so because of that and the
nature of it, I think that's the

1876
02:00:52,880 --> 02:00:55,240
biggest of everything that we've
talked about here today.

1877
02:00:55,240 --> 02:00:57,680
If you have resentments,
especially against yourself,

1878
02:00:58,000 --> 02:01:00,560
you'd be surprised at how many
people have resentments toward

1879
02:01:00,560 --> 02:01:05,520
themselves.
It's it's crazy at how many

1880
02:01:05,520 --> 02:01:09,800
people they get down on
themselves so much like hey, my

1881
02:01:09,800 --> 02:01:15,920
past consisted of Abci am then
for need to punish myself by

1882
02:01:16,280 --> 02:01:19,320
making sure I'm not in a good
mood today or something to that

1883
02:01:19,320 --> 02:01:21,840
effect.
And it could be anything, any

1884
02:01:21,840 --> 02:01:30,640
type of action toward that.
And then regrets obviously are

1885
02:01:30,640 --> 02:01:32,920
like ways that you've handled in
the situation.

1886
02:01:33,000 --> 02:01:37,520
I've suffered from this where
I'll really regret like talking

1887
02:01:37,520 --> 02:01:43,040
to a brother or being in an
arguments when I need to just

1888
02:01:43,040 --> 02:01:44,480
let it go.
It's in the past.

1889
02:01:44,680 --> 02:01:46,200
There's nothing I can do about
it.

1890
02:01:46,720 --> 02:01:53,200
I just need to let it go.
Or better yet, this is something

1891
02:01:53,200 --> 02:01:55,640
that we do.
You put it in Jesus hands.

1892
02:01:56,480 --> 02:01:58,880
This is one of the reasons that
I think it's so powerful.

1893
02:01:58,880 --> 02:02:02,280
You've talked about the temple a
little bit of the law of, and

1894
02:02:02,280 --> 02:02:07,680
I'll just briefly go over it, of
the law of oath of vengeance.

1895
02:02:08,920 --> 02:02:14,520
And that's what it's for, is you
give all this to God.

1896
02:02:14,840 --> 02:02:17,600
Any wrongs that you've done or
God or people have done, you got

1897
02:02:17,600 --> 02:02:23,240
to give that to Him and be able
to let Him work things out on

1898
02:02:23,240 --> 02:02:25,240
your behalf.
Right.

1899
02:02:26,080 --> 02:02:30,680
Yeah, no, that letting go is so
tough.

1900
02:02:31,120 --> 02:02:36,720
Oh yeah.
And, and sometimes I think, see,

1901
02:02:36,760 --> 02:02:39,440
we are certainly made by our
experiences.

1902
02:02:39,920 --> 02:02:42,000
Oh yeah.
But that doesn't mean that you

1903
02:02:42,000 --> 02:02:43,880
need to hold on to every
experience.

1904
02:02:43,880 --> 02:02:48,920
What you need to hold on to are
the lessons learned, not the

1905
02:02:48,920 --> 02:02:51,720
accompanying crap that came
along with the experience.

1906
02:02:52,440 --> 02:02:57,120
Yeah, absolutely.
And then this is the one I am

1907
02:02:57,120 --> 02:02:59,640
currently working on.
I'm, I'm glad to say I'm

1908
02:02:59,640 --> 02:03:02,240
recovered from pornography, but
I'm still working on these

1909
02:03:02,240 --> 02:03:03,400
things and becoming better at
them.

1910
02:03:03,760 --> 02:03:09,000
And that is rationalize.
I, I like to rationalize things.

1911
02:03:09,000 --> 02:03:14,640
I like to say, well, I'm doing
things because of ABC and they

1912
02:03:15,640 --> 02:03:17,440
they keep you from who you could
be.

1913
02:03:18,760 --> 02:03:21,880
Rationalizing it is the same
thing as excusing it, right?

1914
02:03:22,160 --> 02:03:27,280
Let me give you an example I
found for myself.

1915
02:03:27,760 --> 02:03:31,280
I found that if I am going to
lose weight and I am going to be

1916
02:03:31,280 --> 02:03:35,320
the healthiest I can be, I
cannot fall into the trap of a

1917
02:03:35,320 --> 02:03:38,880
cheat day right with with what I
eat.

1918
02:03:40,160 --> 02:03:44,200
Because if I have a cheat day, I
have I've, I've blown it up

1919
02:03:44,400 --> 02:03:47,080
right?
The best thing for me is to just

1920
02:03:47,080 --> 02:03:50,760
stay disciplined.
But it's real easy to

1921
02:03:50,760 --> 02:03:52,720
rationalize or excuse a cheat
day.

1922
02:03:52,720 --> 02:03:57,200
Like, man, I've had a streak of
21 days right where I've just

1923
02:03:57,200 --> 02:03:59,880
been eating clean and I'm
feeling good and I'm feeling

1924
02:03:59,880 --> 02:04:02,680
strong.
I should celebrate with a pizza.

1925
02:04:03,200 --> 02:04:06,520
Right.
And as a reward, right.

1926
02:04:07,360 --> 02:04:10,240
And what happens is, is that I
fall off the wagon at that

1927
02:04:10,240 --> 02:04:14,160
point, right.
So we have to get to a point to

1928
02:04:14,160 --> 02:04:18,480
where we recognize what our
triggers are for rationalizing

1929
02:04:18,480 --> 02:04:23,160
and making excuses for
ourselves, and then firmly be be

1930
02:04:23,160 --> 02:04:28,000
conscious enough and and self
aware enough to get rid of

1931
02:04:28,000 --> 02:04:32,360
whatever it is that allows us to
fall back into those things.

1932
02:04:32,920 --> 02:04:37,280
Yep, and one of the biggest
things with all this is changing

1933
02:04:37,280 --> 02:04:41,400
your identity.
And this is big for people

1934
02:04:41,400 --> 02:04:48,000
because pornography and any sin
has a tie to how you view

1935
02:04:48,000 --> 02:04:51,160
yourself, how you view your
identity.

1936
02:04:52,280 --> 02:04:56,640
And that is on a fundamental.
That's what all we're doing here

1937
02:04:56,760 --> 02:04:59,560
is we're really trying to say,
OK, what?

1938
02:04:59,600 --> 02:05:02,880
Who do you want to be versus who
you are now?

1939
02:05:03,320 --> 02:05:05,160
And let's see what it does to
actually change that.

1940
02:05:05,160 --> 02:05:08,720
And the human mind hates that we
are our way.

1941
02:05:08,720 --> 02:05:11,880
We're going to stay our way
where we know our way is safe.

1942
02:05:12,120 --> 02:05:14,600
It's the devil we know versus
the devil we don't.

1943
02:05:14,600 --> 02:05:16,360
Therefore, we're going to deal
with the devil we know.

1944
02:05:17,200 --> 02:05:24,120
And it's completely works
against us.

1945
02:05:24,120 --> 02:05:27,040
Our brain will work against us
if we really try to change our

1946
02:05:27,040 --> 02:05:31,760
identities.
Yep, absolutely, 100%.

1947
02:05:32,480 --> 02:05:34,680
All right, moving on.
Yep.

1948
02:05:36,920 --> 02:05:42,320
Then after that.
So seeking forgiveness.

1949
02:05:42,320 --> 02:05:51,440
You already did.
There's accountability, but we

1950
02:05:51,440 --> 02:05:53,200
kind of already talked about
that one.

1951
02:05:58,320 --> 02:06:07,600
The really the last one is
service and the they it's talked

1952
02:06:07,600 --> 02:06:10,280
about in our group and other
groups as well as I've heard is

1953
02:06:10,280 --> 02:06:13,400
if you do the first step and the
last step and the rest will kind

1954
02:06:13,400 --> 02:06:15,680
of take care of their own.
I am still a fan of going

1955
02:06:15,680 --> 02:06:21,240
through the other steps, but you
got to basically take what

1956
02:06:21,240 --> 02:06:24,200
you've learned and be willing to
give it to others.

1957
02:06:25,160 --> 02:06:28,720
It's kind of what we talked
about earlier as well, that the

1958
02:06:29,520 --> 02:06:34,600
you can't be in a state of
anxiety and stress and all that

1959
02:06:34,600 --> 02:06:38,160
when you're serving, if it's
doing properly, proper service.

1960
02:06:38,560 --> 02:06:40,840
Because some people will say,
oh, I'm, I'm gonna help this

1961
02:06:40,840 --> 02:06:44,480
person and then that person's
gonna gonna get me some help on

1962
02:06:44,480 --> 02:06:46,760
the side here and there.
And that's not true service.

1963
02:06:49,080 --> 02:06:52,680
But when you actually begin to
serve and you're actually using

1964
02:06:52,680 --> 02:06:55,360
your prefrontal cortex, this is
a little bit more brain here.

1965
02:06:57,520 --> 02:07:02,080
When our brain develops, it
develops from the bottom back

1966
02:07:02,120 --> 02:07:05,360
forward.
So it takes more energy to use

1967
02:07:05,360 --> 02:07:09,440
the front part of our brain than
it does the the bottom in the

1968
02:07:09,440 --> 02:07:11,080
back where where the amygdala
is.

1969
02:07:11,560 --> 02:07:16,520
And so I like to think about it,
like for those who know the

1970
02:07:16,520 --> 02:07:18,600
country, they have this thing
called pivots.

1971
02:07:18,840 --> 02:07:21,480
And then they're these big
sprayers that move in.

1972
02:07:21,960 --> 02:07:23,920
Notice the path that the pivots
make.

1973
02:07:23,920 --> 02:07:25,120
There's nothing that grows
there.

1974
02:07:25,120 --> 02:07:28,400
And they dig into the dirt.
And the longer they're there,

1975
02:07:28,640 --> 02:07:31,800
they're they're gonna, those
divots are gonna be deeper and

1976
02:07:31,800 --> 02:07:34,640
deeper.
What if you need to move that

1977
02:07:34,640 --> 02:07:39,080
pivot to a different spot and
then you need to carve out a new

1978
02:07:39,080 --> 02:07:41,720
road?
And so it's gonna take time for

1979
02:07:41,720 --> 02:07:45,080
those old divots to work their
way out.

1980
02:07:45,520 --> 02:07:49,160
And this is how you do it is you
keep your mind on service, you

1981
02:07:49,160 --> 02:07:56,520
keep your mind on keeping your,
your, your prefrontal lobe

1982
02:07:56,520 --> 02:07:59,480
activated and you grow it.
It's a muscle.

1983
02:07:59,720 --> 02:08:03,640
You grow it.
And that is when you have

1984
02:08:03,640 --> 02:08:09,200
lasting change.
Yes, there's that scripture in

1985
02:08:09,200 --> 02:08:13,760
the New Testament that says he
who loses his life will find it

1986
02:08:13,760 --> 02:08:14,760
again.
The.

1987
02:08:16,960 --> 02:08:20,840
Story that I heard once about an
LDS church president, I believe

1988
02:08:20,840 --> 02:08:25,600
it was Hinckley, who when he had
went on a mission, he went

1989
02:08:25,600 --> 02:08:29,640
overseas and every time he'd
write home to his dad for about

1990
02:08:29,640 --> 02:08:32,320
the first three or four months,
it was always this is way hard,

1991
02:08:32,320 --> 02:08:35,080
this is way hard.
His dad would try to encourage

1992
02:08:35,080 --> 02:08:38,960
him, try to pump him up.
And finally his dad just said

1993
02:08:38,960 --> 02:08:43,880
Gordon, one of his letters, just
just a couple lines that Gordon,

1994
02:08:44,200 --> 02:08:51,280
forget yourself and go to work.
Now we live in an age of self

1995
02:08:51,280 --> 02:08:54,680
obsession, right?
We live in the age of the

1996
02:08:54,680 --> 02:08:59,440
selfie.
So our gaze, the society wants

1997
02:08:59,440 --> 02:09:03,080
us to fix our gaze upon
ourselves, right?

1998
02:09:04,240 --> 02:09:06,400
It's not how mankind was meant
to operate.

1999
02:09:07,040 --> 02:09:10,200
Nope.
We need to be of service to

2000
02:09:10,200 --> 02:09:13,920
other people because when you do
that, you now have shifted your

2001
02:09:13,920 --> 02:09:18,000
gauge gaze from yourself to
somebody else.

2002
02:09:18,400 --> 02:09:23,400
And when you do that, you lose
your life, like the scripture

2003
02:09:23,400 --> 02:09:27,560
says, in a way, right you are.
You are not obsessed with the

2004
02:09:27,560 --> 02:09:30,120
self.
You are obsessed with what can I

2005
02:09:30,120 --> 02:09:32,160
do to be of service to this
other person?

2006
02:09:33,280 --> 02:09:36,360
And it seems counterintuitive,
but in that there is joy.

2007
02:09:37,360 --> 02:09:43,240
And we are not going to be able
to really put away the things

2008
02:09:43,240 --> 02:09:48,600
that are detrimental to us until
we engage in service, because

2009
02:09:48,600 --> 02:09:51,040
it's through that service that
we find our life again.

2010
02:09:52,920 --> 02:09:56,760
If we look at any of the people
who made a lasting impact, it

2011
02:09:56,760 --> 02:10:00,480
was people who worked for
somebody else other than

2012
02:10:00,480 --> 02:10:04,000
themselves, right?
We can look at certainly Christ

2013
02:10:04,000 --> 02:10:06,600
and his life.
There was nothing that he did

2014
02:10:06,600 --> 02:10:09,920
that was for himself.
Everything was for everyone

2015
02:10:09,920 --> 02:10:14,320
else.
We just go down the list, right?

2016
02:10:15,000 --> 02:10:18,880
These are all people who
contributed to the betterment of

2017
02:10:18,880 --> 02:10:21,800
the people around them and
ultimately, in the end, to

2018
02:10:21,800 --> 02:10:24,760
society in general.
So there is.

2019
02:10:24,840 --> 02:10:29,400
Something, there is something
true to that phrase of losing

2020
02:10:29,400 --> 02:10:31,360
your life.
By losing your life you will

2021
02:10:31,360 --> 02:10:33,360
find it again.
And I believe the mechanism

2022
02:10:33,360 --> 02:10:36,000
there is service in one form or
another.

2023
02:10:36,640 --> 02:10:42,360
Yeah, and you'll be surprised
at, I was so surprised because I

2024
02:10:42,360 --> 02:10:47,400
started implementing this in
other areas of my life where it

2025
02:10:47,400 --> 02:10:49,080
makes such a difference to your
day.

2026
02:10:51,000 --> 02:10:56,840
Like your day is just so much
better when you start serving

2027
02:10:57,640 --> 02:10:59,600
and it doesn't seem like it at
the beginning.

2028
02:11:00,320 --> 02:11:03,280
That's something that's very
interesting is that it's, it's

2029
02:11:03,280 --> 02:11:05,960
like going to a place and you're
like, I really don't want to go.

2030
02:11:05,960 --> 02:11:08,080
And then you get there and
you're having the time of your

2031
02:11:08,080 --> 02:11:11,280
life.
It's it's understanding that

2032
02:11:11,280 --> 02:11:15,360
you're going to get the reward
after you've done it, after

2033
02:11:15,360 --> 02:11:17,040
you're there, you're embraced by
it.

2034
02:11:17,480 --> 02:11:20,920
And so don't don't let that stop
you from doing it.

2035
02:11:22,040 --> 02:11:26,080
Right, absolutely no.
That service portion is so key

2036
02:11:26,080 --> 02:11:31,440
in finding not, excuse me, not
just release relief from our own

2037
02:11:31,440 --> 02:11:34,960
addictions, but finding joy,
right?

2038
02:11:35,160 --> 02:11:39,480
What is it God said is his word,
You know, his, his, his work and

2039
02:11:39,480 --> 02:11:41,880
his glory.
Well, it's not him.

2040
02:11:41,880 --> 02:11:45,440
It's bringing to pass the
immortality and eternal life of

2041
02:11:45,440 --> 02:11:49,080
man, right?
His whole existence still is

2042
02:11:49,080 --> 02:11:54,080
devoted to us, getting us to the
best place that we can possibly

2043
02:11:54,080 --> 02:11:57,320
go.
And likewise, if that's the

2044
02:11:57,320 --> 02:12:01,040
father's work in the glory that
should be ours as well, right

2045
02:12:01,480 --> 02:12:05,240
being of service to our kids, to
our wives, to our family, to our

2046
02:12:05,240 --> 02:12:08,640
communities, to to to the places
we work.

2047
02:12:09,880 --> 02:12:15,080
That's where true happiness lies
is in the the, the sacrifice of

2048
02:12:15,080 --> 02:12:17,760
the self for the betterment of
others.

2049
02:12:18,160 --> 02:12:20,960
And ultimately, that's what
leads us to some of our most

2050
02:12:20,960 --> 02:12:24,960
healthiest outcomes is, is doing
that.

2051
02:12:25,560 --> 02:12:30,600
So that's the steps, OK.
I may have missed one or two of

2052
02:12:30,600 --> 02:12:33,480
them, but if if I did miss them
then we covered them in other

2053
02:12:33,480 --> 02:12:34,600
ones.
Right.

2054
02:12:34,640 --> 02:12:38,480
No, no, I get you, I get you.
So that's the.

2055
02:12:38,480 --> 02:12:41,440
Starting place.
Right, right.

2056
02:12:41,480 --> 02:12:45,120
And look, I know from what other
people have told me you'll

2057
02:12:45,120 --> 02:12:48,360
you'll need to work those steps
multiple times to get to where

2058
02:12:48,360 --> 02:12:49,760
you need to be.
Yep.

2059
02:12:50,200 --> 02:12:51,960
And there's more work that you
need to do.

2060
02:12:52,240 --> 02:12:53,960
That's the thing.
These these steps aren't

2061
02:12:53,960 --> 02:12:55,840
everything.
They're the, they're the

2062
02:12:55,840 --> 02:12:58,400
starting point.
And then there's a lot of

2063
02:12:58,400 --> 02:13:00,760
internal work.
There's a lot of self love that

2064
02:13:00,760 --> 02:13:02,440
needs to take place.
There's other things that need

2065
02:13:02,440 --> 02:13:06,040
to get done.
So let me ask you this, Zach,

2066
02:13:07,560 --> 02:13:10,400
First off, because I got some
questions I want to follow up

2067
02:13:10,400 --> 02:13:11,680
with here.
Absolutely.

2068
02:13:11,680 --> 02:13:14,240
Do you feel like you've covered
the material you wanted to

2069
02:13:14,240 --> 02:13:18,160
cover?
Have you left anything out that

2070
02:13:18,160 --> 02:13:19,720
you're like, oh, we need to hit
that?

2071
02:13:20,320 --> 02:13:25,960
Let's see, I talked about
honeostasis, talked about the

2072
02:13:25,960 --> 02:13:29,480
brain.
That's someone's.

2073
02:13:31,000 --> 02:13:34,720
One thing that I do want to
cover is finding your.

2074
02:13:34,720 --> 02:13:37,040
Why?
Hey, let's go there.

2075
02:13:37,360 --> 02:13:41,920
So, so this is one thing that so
once you once you have space in,

2076
02:13:42,240 --> 02:13:45,200
then you start to go stagnant.
And then if you don't keep

2077
02:13:45,200 --> 02:13:46,800
moving, then you'll fall
backward.

2078
02:13:47,240 --> 02:13:51,400
And so another thing that you
got to do is you got to in order

2079
02:13:51,440 --> 02:13:56,000
to be healed from this, you got
to find AY, I think that

2080
02:13:56,000 --> 02:13:59,000
everybody is born with this is
my own gospel of Zach.

2081
02:13:59,480 --> 02:14:04,400
Everybody is born with some sort
of thing that will give them

2082
02:14:04,480 --> 02:14:07,000
purpose in life that they
absolutely enjoy.

2083
02:14:07,600 --> 02:14:15,720
And that's your why and that's
that's embedded to us at birth.

2084
02:14:15,720 --> 02:14:20,720
It's not something that we
necessarily like.

2085
02:14:20,720 --> 02:14:23,600
I think when God says that he
crafted us in the womb, I think

2086
02:14:23,600 --> 02:14:30,440
He has a personal hand in giving
to all of us that desire and we

2087
02:14:30,440 --> 02:14:35,440
try to cover that up or get that
other ways.

2088
02:14:35,520 --> 02:14:39,520
But as we found out, especially
with addictions, it's not able

2089
02:14:39,520 --> 02:14:42,160
to do that.
For people that really struggle

2090
02:14:42,160 --> 02:14:43,920
with addictions, I think it's
because they have a really

2091
02:14:43,920 --> 02:14:50,440
powerful why.
And I think that and if you

2092
02:14:50,440 --> 02:14:52,480
don't have your addictions, it
might be that you're already

2093
02:14:52,480 --> 02:14:58,400
obtaining your why.
So let's see.

2094
02:15:03,640 --> 02:15:06,320
So there's this study that I
didn't want to go over.

2095
02:15:06,320 --> 02:15:09,800
It's called a rat park, and I
can't remember exactly who did

2096
02:15:09,800 --> 02:15:11,000
the study.
I can find it though.

2097
02:15:11,000 --> 02:15:16,120
It's where a scientist, it's
interesting how much studies

2098
02:15:16,120 --> 02:15:18,960
they've done with rat and
cocaine, but they had this rat

2099
02:15:18,960 --> 02:15:23,520
and they had two waters.
Yeah, they had two waters and 1

2100
02:15:23,520 --> 02:15:25,880
was laced with cocaine and 1 was
laced without.

2101
02:15:26,360 --> 02:15:30,640
And the rat would just drain the
cocaine super quickly, get super

2102
02:15:30,640 --> 02:15:34,480
addicted and often overdose.
Then another scientist came

2103
02:15:34,480 --> 02:15:38,920
along was like, hey, why don't
we pick that rat up and then put

2104
02:15:38,920 --> 02:15:41,680
it in a place with.
There's lots to do.

2105
02:15:41,880 --> 02:15:49,120
There's lots of other rats to
interact with and see what

2106
02:15:49,120 --> 02:15:52,520
happens.
Then the cocaine was barely

2107
02:15:52,520 --> 02:15:55,640
touched, which was very
interesting.

2108
02:15:55,640 --> 02:15:57,440
It might have had like a little
taste.

2109
02:15:57,760 --> 02:16:02,360
A rat would taste it here and
there, but absolutely nothing of

2110
02:16:02,360 --> 02:16:05,480
the kind of what like the first
one where there was super

2111
02:16:05,480 --> 02:16:08,840
overdose.
I kind of equivalent that to us

2112
02:16:08,840 --> 02:16:13,080
where when we are completely
enveloped in making connections

2113
02:16:13,080 --> 02:16:16,200
with our fellow man and serving
them and doing and connecting

2114
02:16:16,200 --> 02:16:20,360
the way God intends us to
connect, that is when we no

2115
02:16:20,360 --> 02:16:24,800
longer crave the addiction.
And I am a testament to that.

2116
02:16:25,600 --> 02:16:31,120
Like with me, I have to have
spiritual conversations with

2117
02:16:31,120 --> 02:16:34,840
people.
I have to, when I don't then,

2118
02:16:35,200 --> 02:16:38,520
and I've noticed this, the
cravings actually do come back

2119
02:16:38,520 --> 02:16:40,600
to some degree.
And then I have to be like, no,

2120
02:16:40,680 --> 02:16:42,840
and it's more of a fight, if
that makes sense.

2121
02:16:42,920 --> 02:16:44,760
And obviously I've got other
things in place like what we

2122
02:16:44,760 --> 02:16:48,799
discussed earlier where I can
sit in it, but when I go to bed

2123
02:16:48,799 --> 02:16:53,440
at night, I don't have any
cravings or anything like that

2124
02:16:53,840 --> 02:16:56,760
because when I hit the bed, it's
like I made meaningful

2125
02:16:56,760 --> 02:17:01,120
connections I have made.
For me, it was having these

2126
02:17:01,879 --> 02:17:05,719
scriptural and deep religious
things.

2127
02:17:05,959 --> 02:17:09,639
And everybody has these things.
Like I know people that they had

2128
02:17:09,639 --> 02:17:11,840
to go on a hike.
They have to hike so many times

2129
02:17:11,840 --> 02:17:13,799
a year.
They have to read books, they

2130
02:17:13,799 --> 02:17:18,400
have to suck.
Like sports is a wonderful

2131
02:17:18,400 --> 02:17:22,120
outlet as well.
And some people are designed

2132
02:17:22,120 --> 02:17:24,360
that they have to do that in
some capacity.

2133
02:17:24,360 --> 02:17:27,360
And I think there's some way to
turn that into a service, which

2134
02:17:27,360 --> 02:17:29,200
is what God wants us to all
find.

2135
02:17:29,840 --> 02:17:36,480
And that is, that's where you
got to really sit down and find

2136
02:17:36,480 --> 02:17:41,879
your why and all of it.
You know, as as Mormons, I feel

2137
02:17:41,879 --> 02:17:50,120
like the why can be found in in
several different places, right?

2138
02:17:50,480 --> 02:17:54,080
Mormonism allows us to find the
why and community in in serving

2139
02:17:54,080 --> 02:17:57,639
our families and serving our
communities and serving and

2140
02:17:57,639 --> 02:17:59,959
serving our kindred dead on the
other side.

2141
02:17:59,959 --> 02:18:02,480
I mean, there's so many
opportunities to be of service.

2142
02:18:02,879 --> 02:18:04,959
In.
WhatsApp.

2143
02:18:05,200 --> 02:18:08,240
It needs to be specific.
The reason why I say that is

2144
02:18:08,240 --> 02:18:10,559
there's some people that say,
oh, I just want to, I want to

2145
02:18:10,559 --> 02:18:12,920
feed 100 people.
Well, how are you going to feed

2146
02:18:12,920 --> 02:18:14,160
100 people?
I have no idea.

2147
02:18:14,200 --> 02:18:16,600
I'm just going to do that.
And it's like, no, you need to

2148
02:18:16,600 --> 02:18:19,080
actually understand how you're
going to do it.

2149
02:18:19,360 --> 02:18:24,280
And to the point, like for me,
my why is helping people

2150
02:18:24,280 --> 02:18:26,240
overcome addiction.
That's my wife.

2151
02:18:26,240 --> 02:18:27,799
I go, I go to work with
plumbing.

2152
02:18:28,040 --> 02:18:31,680
I dance on the weekends.
But the reason I get out of bed

2153
02:18:32,120 --> 02:18:35,559
is for this.
I get such a kick out of it.

2154
02:18:35,559 --> 02:18:39,600
And one of my favorite things
was when I went and taught at

2155
02:18:39,600 --> 02:18:42,280
school, I taught little kids
this.

2156
02:18:42,559 --> 02:18:45,920
And you would see the pain in
their eyes.

2157
02:18:46,480 --> 02:18:50,360
And then you could see hope
return at very specific points

2158
02:18:50,360 --> 02:18:52,040
when I would get to certain
points in my story.

2159
02:18:52,840 --> 02:18:57,879
And that to me feeds me
spiritually on a holder level

2160
02:18:58,559 --> 02:19:02,360
because I know I changed their
trajectory.

2161
02:19:02,920 --> 02:19:05,320
I changed the way that those
kids were.

2162
02:19:05,719 --> 02:19:08,559
And everybody needs to find this
of how they affect others in

2163
02:19:08,559 --> 02:19:13,000
that way.
Because when you do, then you

2164
02:19:13,000 --> 02:19:14,840
don't care for the addiction
because you're getting the,

2165
02:19:14,920 --> 02:19:16,959
you're getting the dopamine and
everything other ways.

2166
02:19:17,240 --> 02:19:23,120
And it's going to be tough.
The Y has to exist outside of

2167
02:19:23,120 --> 02:19:24,799
you.
Yes, 100%.

2168
02:19:24,799 --> 02:19:26,120
The Y has to exist outside of
you.

2169
02:19:26,879 --> 02:19:30,320
And that's my point, right?
As in Mormonism, there's all

2170
02:19:30,320 --> 02:19:32,200
these opportunities.
To.

2171
02:19:32,200 --> 02:19:35,719
Get outside the Y, right?
If it's temple work, if it's

2172
02:19:35,719 --> 02:19:37,920
kinder dead, well, there's a ton
of work you're going to have to

2173
02:19:37,920 --> 02:19:39,440
do before that.
You're going to have to extract

2174
02:19:39,440 --> 02:19:41,719
your family names.
You're going to have to prep

2175
02:19:41,719 --> 02:19:44,120
those for the temple, the whole,
whole ball of wax.

2176
02:19:44,680 --> 02:19:48,200
If, if, if it's serving in your
family right again, you're

2177
02:19:48,200 --> 02:19:50,440
outside yourself.
You are looking to them.

2178
02:19:50,720 --> 02:19:53,720
Whatever it is, make sure that Y
is outside of you.

2179
02:19:54,440 --> 02:19:55,160
Yep.
OK.

2180
02:19:56,080 --> 02:19:59,560
What anything else you want to
say in regards to that, Zach?

2181
02:20:00,840 --> 02:20:02,480
That's all I've got.
OK.

2182
02:20:02,680 --> 02:20:04,240
I'd love to answer any questions
that you have.

2183
02:20:04,800 --> 02:20:06,960
Yeah.
So let me ask you this.

2184
02:20:09,480 --> 02:20:11,320
We've talked a lot about these
steps.

2185
02:20:11,320 --> 02:20:15,360
We've talked a lot about how the
brain works and how these things

2186
02:20:15,360 --> 02:20:17,680
get introduced and become
addictions.

2187
02:20:18,360 --> 02:20:21,320
Yep.
Now we've talked about

2188
02:20:21,320 --> 02:20:25,320
surrendering to to Christ and
we, we've talked a little bit

2189
02:20:25,320 --> 02:20:30,880
about that and about atonement,
but talk to me specifically

2190
02:20:31,400 --> 02:20:35,520
about how the atonement helped
you and others that have

2191
02:20:35,520 --> 02:20:43,920
struggled with addiction heal.
It brought hope and where there

2192
02:20:43,920 --> 02:20:52,000
is was none.
I have been suicidal 3 times in

2193
02:20:52,000 --> 02:20:55,280
my life.
I knew exactly how I was going

2194
02:20:55,280 --> 02:20:58,160
to do it.
I knew where I was going to do

2195
02:20:58,160 --> 02:21:02,120
it and I knew where it would be
complete, where no one would

2196
02:21:02,120 --> 02:21:04,440
intervene.
All I needed was the day.

2197
02:21:06,000 --> 02:21:11,160
And every time God came through
with me on that, every time He

2198
02:21:11,160 --> 02:21:15,760
intervened in some form or
fashion, that resulted in me

2199
02:21:16,680 --> 02:21:22,360
showing that He really did care
about me and that I am worth

2200
02:21:23,200 --> 02:21:27,520
caring about.
And so many people don't know

2201
02:21:27,520 --> 02:21:32,120
that.
That's whenever I look at

2202
02:21:32,120 --> 02:21:35,760
somebody, I look for that to
see, does this person actually

2203
02:21:35,760 --> 02:21:39,400
believe that?
Because if they do, then good on

2204
02:21:39,400 --> 02:21:41,480
them.
I'm going to go find someone

2205
02:21:41,480 --> 02:21:44,000
that doesn't because.
And I can always find somebody

2206
02:21:44,840 --> 02:21:50,080
because that's such a hard place
to be.

2207
02:21:51,960 --> 02:21:57,320
And I've been there and it, I
know the road, that's the thing.

2208
02:21:58,280 --> 02:22:03,880
I know what it's like.
And if my life just results in

2209
02:22:03,960 --> 02:22:06,440
helping people through that
road, so be it.

2210
02:22:07,560 --> 02:22:14,480
I'd be 1 happy camper.
What does it feel like once the

2211
02:22:14,480 --> 02:22:19,280
atonement has worked, you've
obtained forgiveness, and you're

2212
02:22:19,280 --> 02:22:27,560
past the addiction?
It is a beauty that is rarely

2213
02:22:27,560 --> 02:22:31,520
experienced and you cannot
experience it unless you

2214
02:22:31,560 --> 02:22:35,800
actually go through it.
I do not wish my addiction on my

2215
02:22:35,800 --> 02:22:40,280
worst enemies, but I also
wouldn't trade it for anything.

2216
02:22:40,280 --> 02:22:42,440
And that always gets some
people's feathers riled up a

2217
02:22:42,440 --> 02:22:46,280
little bit.
But I generally wouldn't because

2218
02:22:46,280 --> 02:22:50,360
I know the love of God and what
He has for me.

2219
02:22:50,600 --> 02:22:56,360
He showed me.
He's deliberately put things in

2220
02:22:56,360 --> 02:22:58,200
my life and I had to work for
it.

2221
02:22:58,760 --> 02:23:01,200
Be understood.
He makes you work for it.

2222
02:23:02,440 --> 02:23:07,240
But once you get it, you
understand the Savior on a level

2223
02:23:07,240 --> 02:23:13,480
that not everyone does.
You know, I, I want to be be

2224
02:23:13,480 --> 02:23:16,720
clear here that you can, you can
get that without addiction,

2225
02:23:16,880 --> 02:23:18,280
right?
Yes you can.

2226
02:23:18,840 --> 02:23:20,760
It's it's through your trials,
right?

2227
02:23:20,760 --> 02:23:23,800
Whatever your trials are, maybe
your trials addiction, maybe

2228
02:23:23,800 --> 02:23:28,520
your trial is is, you know.
Losing a loved one.

2229
02:23:29,160 --> 02:23:34,360
Losing a loved one or even
something as simple as finding

2230
02:23:34,360 --> 02:23:36,280
the motivation to do the right
thing all the time.

2231
02:23:36,280 --> 02:23:42,120
Whatever your trial is, there is
hope and there's healing through

2232
02:23:42,120 --> 02:23:44,160
the Savior, through Jesus
Christ.

2233
02:23:46,240 --> 02:23:50,120
You know, I've, I've been the
beneficiary of the Atonement

2234
02:23:50,240 --> 02:23:54,760
over and over and over and over
to the point that they're not

2235
02:23:54,760 --> 02:23:58,120
events, It's continual, right?
It's just part of my life

2236
02:24:00,040 --> 02:24:02,960
understanding that it's the
atonement that gives me the

2237
02:24:02,960 --> 02:24:06,360
opportunities to continue to
move forward and grow.

2238
02:24:07,760 --> 02:24:13,880
And it's important to realize
that that Atonement isn't just

2239
02:24:13,880 --> 02:24:17,960
there for repentance.
And let me explain this.

2240
02:24:18,880 --> 02:24:22,320
Sometimes I think we get to a
place with the Savior and the

2241
02:24:22,320 --> 02:24:26,880
Atonement that we look at it as
just there for when I screw up,

2242
02:24:27,280 --> 02:24:30,200
right?
And certainly that's a big part

2243
02:24:30,240 --> 02:24:32,800
of it.
But the Atonement offers

2244
02:24:32,800 --> 02:24:37,720
healing, the atonement offers
forgiveness that we can extend

2245
02:24:37,720 --> 02:24:41,120
towards others.
And the Atonement ultimately

2246
02:24:41,120 --> 02:24:46,520
means happiness that we get to
move through these trials and

2247
02:24:46,520 --> 02:24:50,280
walk out on the other side
better for having gone through.

2248
02:24:51,240 --> 02:24:54,560
And we need to be just as
thankful for our trials as we

2249
02:24:54,560 --> 02:24:57,640
are for the atonement because
that's where we get to encounter

2250
02:24:57,640 --> 02:25:01,240
divinity.
For many of us, there are is in

2251
02:25:01,240 --> 02:25:04,760
the overcoming of whatever trial
we've been we've been given.

2252
02:25:07,120 --> 02:25:10,360
I have been the recipient of
having a broken heart mended

2253
02:25:10,520 --> 02:25:15,160
over and over again many times
and that's because Christ still

2254
02:25:15,160 --> 02:25:16,960
continues his healing mission
today.

2255
02:25:18,080 --> 02:25:22,000
Sometimes it's physical
healings, but I think most of

2256
02:25:22,000 --> 02:25:24,680
the time it's, it's a spiritual
or a healing of the heart.

2257
02:25:25,240 --> 02:25:29,000
And he's involved in the, in, in
the, in the micro of life as

2258
02:25:29,000 --> 02:25:31,240
well as the macro, the small
things in the large.

2259
02:25:32,720 --> 02:25:36,400
And when you, when you can get
to that point and realize that

2260
02:25:37,440 --> 02:25:42,000
the atonement starts to become
more than just a spiritual

2261
02:25:42,000 --> 02:25:45,320
aspirin you take when you're
sick, it starts to become the

2262
02:25:45,320 --> 02:25:49,480
source of your happiness.
And it's also going to lead you

2263
02:25:49,480 --> 02:25:52,400
into service.
And again, that is a healthy and

2264
02:25:52,400 --> 02:25:56,240
a good place to be.
And there can be that hope and

2265
02:25:56,240 --> 02:25:59,000
healing through it.
That's, that's my ultimate

2266
02:25:59,000 --> 02:26:01,800
testimony here on this one.
And I'll turn it back to you to,

2267
02:26:02,280 --> 02:26:08,200
to close this out, but I
ultimately feel like that that

2268
02:26:08,200 --> 02:26:10,920
is the message is that hope and
healing is still found through

2269
02:26:10,920 --> 02:26:15,360
the Savior and that it becomes
more than just a spiritual

2270
02:26:15,360 --> 02:26:17,440
aspirin that we break for when
we're sick.

2271
02:26:17,760 --> 02:26:20,400
It becomes the source of all our
happiness.

2272
02:26:21,000 --> 02:26:23,440
And that's that's the testimony
I'd leave with you.

2273
02:26:23,440 --> 02:26:25,520
And Zach, I'll throw it to you
to close us out here.

2274
02:26:30,880 --> 02:26:35,240
God wants you to talk to Him, He
wants you to have a relationship

2275
02:26:35,240 --> 02:26:37,840
with Him.
And sometimes that involves the

2276
02:26:37,840 --> 02:26:41,680
thing you want most, to be
behind his back, that you got to

2277
02:26:41,680 --> 02:26:49,360
go through Him.
And sometimes it may not seem

2278
02:26:49,360 --> 02:26:52,360
worth it, but I promise you it
is.

2279
02:26:53,280 --> 02:26:57,760
Getting to know your Savior,
getting to know your God, I

2280
02:26:58,200 --> 02:27:07,520
promise you it is worth it and
He will have blessings and

2281
02:27:07,520 --> 02:27:11,600
experiences with you that you
cannot comprehend.

2282
02:27:12,400 --> 02:27:16,200
And He is an amazing paymaster.
He will take care of you.

2283
02:27:18,560 --> 02:27:21,320
It just sometimes involves trust
again.

2284
02:27:25,480 --> 02:27:26,840
Perfect.
Good stuff.

2285
02:27:26,840 --> 02:27:29,760
We'll end it right there.
Zach, I appreciate you coming

2286
02:27:29,760 --> 02:27:31,960
on.
And, dude, I've said it before,

2287
02:27:31,960 --> 02:27:34,080
and you're you're you're proving
me right here.

2288
02:27:34,480 --> 02:27:37,080
You've been on once before.
You got a standing invitation to

2289
02:27:37,080 --> 02:27:39,200
come back on whenever you want,
when there's something you want

2290
02:27:39,200 --> 02:27:40,160
to talk about.
All right.

2291
02:27:40,680 --> 02:27:44,400
Yeah.
Can, I'd like to extend this to

2292
02:27:44,400 --> 02:27:46,520
any of your listeners.
If there's anything that they do

2293
02:27:46,520 --> 02:27:50,360
want me to break down or any
questions that they do have, if

2294
02:27:50,360 --> 02:27:52,680
they want me to get on another
podcast, they'll put together

2295
02:27:52,680 --> 02:27:55,880
another lesson if you want.
Or if they, you just want to

2296
02:27:55,880 --> 02:27:58,440
give them my number, then they
can as well.

2297
02:27:58,680 --> 02:28:00,840
I like to extend that to
anybody.

2298
02:28:00,840 --> 02:28:03,600
Doesn't matter what group,
doesn't matter where you are.

2299
02:28:03,600 --> 02:28:05,800
If you're struggling, get a hold
of me.

2300
02:28:06,000 --> 02:28:09,200
I keep my phone on all the time.
Awesome.

2301
02:28:09,880 --> 02:28:12,960
Do me a favor, send me the link
to your group so I can put that

2302
02:28:12,960 --> 02:28:15,280
in the show notes so people can
find you if they need it.

2303
02:28:15,560 --> 02:28:18,800
There's not a link, but there is
an address that I will give you

2304
02:28:19,360 --> 02:28:21,000
and then the timing date that we
need.

2305
02:28:21,840 --> 02:28:23,640
Sounds good.
All right, hang out.

2306
02:28:23,640 --> 02:28:24,640
Just 5 minutes.
All right.

2307
02:28:24,960 --> 02:28:26,600
Yep.
Thanks, man.

2308
02:28:26,680 --> 02:28:27,400
Bye everybody.

Episode #229: Breaking The Chains of Addiction W/Zack Nielson

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