The 5,000 Year Leap Discussion Group #6

0:00 All right, it's 5 after. We'll go ahead and get started here and then we'll we'll see if anyone else joins us. I'll go ahead and give us an opening prayer to start here. Our dear kind Father in heaven, we come before thee at this time, so grateful for the opportunity we have to come here and to discuss these principles of, of the Constitution and our founding documents. Help us, Father, to be able to engage with this material in a way that is uplifting, that helps us to be able to grow closer under thee and helps us also to be able to learn these principles well enough that we might teach others these things. That we might present a way of, of going about our business as, as as things begin to worsen, knowing that that it was not part of, of the original plan and that there is another way forward.

0:52 Would ask that you would just bless us with, with your spirit that these things would be pleasing to thee and would would be of most benefit to us and to the rest of your children. We ask for these things humbly in the name of Jesus Christ, Amen. Amen. Are we recording? Looks like we are recording good. All right. So last week we went over, we went over Principle 3 and we didn't, we made it all the way through there, but we didn't get as far as I'd like. And that's OK. Sometimes that's going to happen. But we talked about virtuous and moral leaders and the role they play in in our nation's founding and well-being as well.

1:38 And so this week, kind of a little change up here, we're going to talk a lot more about the role that religion plays in, in the country at large in, in specifically in regards to those founding documents. And so to, to start us off by doing that, I wanted to go ahead and take a look at two different revolutions entirely. I wanted to take a look at both the American and French Revolution because I think there's some some striking differences here and shows what the outcomes really are. Taylor, would you mind just keeping an eye out for any hand that goes up and then just give me a heads up if I miss that, I'll try to keep my eye open as well. Awesome, thanks, man.

2:33 All right, so the French Revolution, it goes from 1789 to 1799, ten years. The streets pretty much ran red with blood during that time. Once the guillotine rolled out, there was no putting it back. There were roughly somewhere between one 16,500 to 17,000 people who were sentenced to death by the Revolutionary Revolutionary Tribunal executed total deaths. Deaths range somewhere in the neighborhood of 40 to 50,000. Those would be people who were killed without a trial, right? Just mob, mob justice.

3:22 And also people who died in prison from from disease or waiting to be tried or executed. This revolutionary tribunal they talk about right here, that's a kangaroo court. What that was is essentially you'd be lined up and then you'd have to essentially make the case on why you were a revolutionary and not someone who was counter to the revolution. And a lot of aristocracy, a lot of noblemen and kings all all lost their head there at the guillotine. Moving on, sticking with the French Revolution, it it effectively ends like I said in 1799 when the coup of 18 Brumer where Napoleon overthrew the directory and and replacing it with the consulate.

4:21 This act became the First Consul is what Napoleon's title was. It abolished the revolutionary government and inaugurated an authoritarian rule, culminating in his crowning as Emperor as eighteen O 4 towards the end of Napoleon's reign, I guess you could call it. He kind of considers himself the rightful heir of the Holy Roman Empire and makes sure that he is crowned accordingly. So that's that's kind of the French Revolution. It, it, it, it starts with a lot of bloodletting, and it doesn't stop until another form of tyranny takes effect. Now, when we contrast that with the American Revolution, it goes from 1775 to about 1783.

5:14 Some will say it ends a little sooner than that, because Yorktown happens before that. And once Yorktown, once, once the colonies beat Cornwallis at Yorktown, the war is essentially over. There's a few more skirmishes, but everything shifts to the side of the colonies and Britain wears down for the most part. At that point in in the revolution, again, approximately only 24,000 to 2500 thousand British soldiers died during the Revolutionary War, 25 to 30,000 Americans in their war for independence.

5:57 Pretty close to the same numbers, right? We're we're totaling somewhere around 50,000. Here's the interesting thing. The deaths directly related to violence of force was only about 8000 on the American side, which meant that a lot of those deaths that were happening on the American side were happening largely due to poor provisions and those sorts of things. Not nearly as much blood running in the streets, I think, as what we see in England. The CG Yorktown, I just talked about that in 1781. That essentially ends it all there.

6:38 There'd be little skirmishes going back and forth from, from between 81 and 82 and then between 82 and 83. It's largely just negotiating the terms of the peace. And it it pretty much ends in Paris officially in 1783 when Franklin Adams and Jay formally go over and end it. And then after that, there is a significant period of peace. And America really, I mean, there, there is the Barbary pirates incident where where we deal, it's the first time we deal with Muslim extremists. Kim, you're, you're kind of a you're you went, you were a reservist for the Navy.

7:26 Is that right? Yeah, that's right. Do you you know the story of the Barbary Pirates then? Yeah, a little bit. That was that was kind of Jefferson's war on North Africa. And, and you're right, it was a war against radical Muslims in North Africa. They were taking Christian slaves at the time. And Europe's policy was basically to pay them off. And America was like, we can't afford to pay you guys off, so we're going to go to war with you instead and make this, make this stop if we have to. Absolutely. Now, Tim, are are you, could you, are you familiar with the Marine Corps history there with the Barbary pirates? I think that their first really successful campaign was Tripoli there on North Africa. That's Libya or no?

8:11 Yeah, No, I think you're right. I think it's Libya. It's interesting. The Marine Corps takes quite a bit of pride in that boy. This is a side tangent. I apologize but the reason they're called leathernecks was from that era. They used to wear high leather collar specifically for this incident so that it would be harder to have their heads cut off. Also the sword that the, that the core still carries today is called the Mameluke sword. And that sword was, is a direct representation of the sword that was surrendered to the Marine Corps and the the Navy after that battle.

8:58 And the name of the, the pirate king or the Muslim Mullah, whoever it was, however you want to refer to him, his name was Mameluke. And so that's our first skirmish. And it actually I found it interesting years and years ago when I found out our first real skirmish as a country was against Muslim extremism. Doesn't have much bearing. Just an interesting side tangent. So all right, so that's kind of the American Revolution. It gets what it wants and it kind of stops right now. We know that's not this, you know, the end of the problems. There's going to be a a crisis in terms of the Articles of Confederation not being able to hold the country together. But by and large, there's peace there. It it wouldn't be till after, I believe it's after the the Constitution is ratified that we have the Whiskey Rebellion. But again, it's a very minor skirmish and it pretty much Washington's presence is enough to put it down. So what was the difference?

10:01 Well, let's I want to read this from the French Revolution. During the French Revolution, the 1790s, angry mobs and revolutionaries looted medieval Gothic churches and even declared that it wasn't a church at all. During a bloody push to remove France's close ties to the Catholic Church, more than two dozen statues affixed to the church facade were publicly decapitated. It's actually way worse than that. The Cathedral of Notre Dame during the French Revolution is actually seized upon and it said this is no longer a church, this is a temple of enlightenment. And they weren't using the term enlightenment like the founding fathers would have.

10:48 This was very human centric. This was humanist in its movements. And this had much more to do with wealth than it did for liberty. And there was an animosity between a lot of the revolutionaries in France and religion in general, certainly the Catholic Church, but religion in general. This is, in my opinion, the first time we see the West start to make a push to get away from kind of judeo-christian tradition and not, not in the realm of the positive, right? This, this is going dark in a hurry in France.

11:31 Now, if we compare what had happened with the American Revolution. During the American Revolution, the Continental Congress called for at least 16 spiritual proclamations for fasting and prayer and Thanksgiving, with National days of Humiliation fasting and prayer being declared at least twice a year throughout the entirety of the American Revolution. These days were used to seek out divine intervention. When we start to assess the differences between the French Revolution and the American Revolution, why 1 ends up giving birth to the United States.

12:15 And you remember, remember that video I first played for us at the beginning of this class where where Joe Rogan talked about it? It, you know, started an engine of creativity from a technological standpoint, the arts, music, culture, you name it. 11 revolution ends in that. The other ends in Napoleon. And you wouldn't get real French liberty for quite a while after that. And it really does come down to, in my opinion, who are you serving, right? Are you serving yourself or are you serving God? And those two things seem to tell the tale of the difference between the French Revolution and the American Revolution. Does anyone have anything they'd like to add on this before we move forward?

13:11 OK, good deal. To illustrate this point further, I want to focus on this guy, Thomas Paine. Paine is is like the revolution, the American Revolution's biggest cheerleader in in those early days in the in the in the revolution. He has major works like Common Sense, which really makes the the case and really galvanizes public favor opinion in favor of the revolution.

13:51 Then there's the American crisis. And this is this is the where we get that phrase. These are the time that try men's souls or you know, we'll remember the sunshine patriots. This is his work and he writes it at the lowest point in the revolution and, and in my opinion, he kind of salvages public influence or public opinion around the revolution. And then after the revolution, he writes 2 works called The Rights of Man and the Age of Reason. And we'll talk a little bit about those here in a second. But Thomas Paine starts off as an ardent patriot in line with the principles of the American Revolution. Thomas Payne ends up looking over at France. And he ends up saying like, hey, it's spreading. This is a good thing.

14:51 I should go over here to France, and I should pump them up the same way that I pumped up the American Revolution. And before he goes, Washington starts to hear about all this. And Washington tells Governor Morris, who's the envoy to Paris at the time, go warn this guy about what he's doing, telling him, tell him this isn't the same same revolution we were fighting. So Morris actually does what Washington says and even delivers a letter to from Washington. And we don't have that letter anymore. But from, from the way some people have talked about it from the time period, Washington's almost, you know, chiding or or chastising Pain a little bit like you should be able to see this.

15:48 This should not come as a surprise to you. Don't go over there. This is not the same thing. But Pain does it anyway. But and when he first shows up in Paris, he's welcomed and as a hero. They love him, He and then later on he starts to see all the killing and he goes, yeah, I'm not in favor of this, right? I'm not down with this. Even the killing of the king. He he's like, we should not do this. There's this is different. And Washington's words, I imagine a ringing in his ears now as he sees this. Well, when he speaks out and says don't, don't do this.

16:28 Don't make the blood, don't make the streets run with blood, right? He's actually labeled as a counter revolutionary. Now when he first goes to France, they love him so much. At first they're they're like, you know what? We'll give you citizenship as a Frenchman as well as an American. So this is the first guy that has dual citizenship. But the downside of that is once they label him a counter revolutionary, he's under their purview and he's in prison for just over a year and was sentenced to death. He was supposed to go face the guillotine as well. Finally, Washington after a few pleas, he he's like, OK, we got to go get our boy. And so he he replaces Governor Morris, not because he was doing a bad job, but for this particular instance, James Monroe fits better, does the job better. So he installed.

17:27 So Washington installs Monroe as the as the new envoy to Paris and sends him over. And then Paine is released from prison. And even though Washington tried to help him out by telling him first, not to go to France and then second, bailing him out, he harbors a deep grudge against Washington for the rest of his life. Excuse me. So what happened to Thomas Paine? Well, if we look at his last two books, what we can see is that pain actually unhinges from God.

18:08 He he begins to move past God. He he's at best a deist. And we'll cover what a deist is more later because it's a a a charge that's leveled on the founding fathers quite a bit from modern day academia. That in my opinion is just it's laughable. Quite honestly, it's up there with Joseph Smith didn't practice plural marriage and Brigham Young and John Taylor killed Joseph Smith. It is that laughable. But certainly by the time you get to his last book, the age of Reason, he is taking a hard turn towards atheist atheism. And this would be something that would stick, what would become a a sticking point between both Washington and paying the rest of their lives.

18:56 But once he unhinges from God, it's interesting that he can't see down the road like Washington could and said, this is not the same revolution that's happening in France that we fought here. And so again, they just end on really bad terms. The founders, however, were were impressed and they were stalwart in their opinions that religion had to be part of the formula for the American system of government to work. This comes from the Northwest Passage, this the Northwest Ordinance, excuse me, that was passed in 1787. Basically, I believe it's this act that even ends up encompassing part of it gets in all of Ohio, Michigan, kind of those upper Midwest states.

19:58 And when they do, they they say, OK, there's some things that we want to make sure continue on here throughout throughout this. We're going to expand as a nation, but we need to make sure that the charter is clear. And this is from Article 3 of the Northwest Ordinance. Religion, morality, knowledge being necessary to good government and the happiness of mankind, Schools and the means of education shall forever be encouraged. Now what's interesting here is that this is one place and we're going to, we're going to talk a little bit about the separation of church and state today as well. But this should be something that that we should keep in mind going forward.

20:48 Past this discussion group passed our time in the book. This to me shows the founders original intent. If we look at the date, we are not very far past the revolution and this this will show you where their mind was. And so we do see that the education and religion were designed by the founders to have some close proximity. And there's a there's a a good reason for that when we look at the three areas of learning that the founders put forward.

21:33 The first was religion. Right might be defined as a fundamental system of beliefs concerning man's origin and relationship to the cosmic universe as well as his relationship with his fellow man. Morality being described as a standard behavior, behavior distinguishing right and wrong, and knowledge and intellect, awareness and understanding of established facts relating to any field of human experience. And so again, just pointing out that that religion and government, why they were to remain separate, enjoyed a close proximity to to one another.

22:15 And the founders recognized it. And I believe it was their intent that religion would continue to be practice and talked about openly because they understood that it was necessary for the American system of government. Hey, does does anyone have anything they want to add comments or questions about this this section here that we've just covered? Hey, can you hear me OK? I can hear you A. Little distracted, but just on the topic of religion and relationship with government, I, I, well, I agree that there was a general intention for religion to be a prominent force and a prominent institution in the American Society. I think what we're seeing today is a bit of a, a devolution where it's, it's a lot of religions seem to be kind of Co opted by government and rather than serving God, they seem a lot more interested in, in serving the government. I mean, certainly with the COVID lockdowns, how many churches? I mean, there were some churches that absolutely did stand up and fight and said we're not shutting down. The government can't tell us that we can't worship, but a lot of a lot of churches not only fell in line with that, they also promoted the government talking points. And that's a complete.

23:51 Kind of lost you there, Justin. So Justin makes a very good point, which is and and we're going to cover this more in the class, but the, the oftentimes the way the separation of church and this, excuse me, church and state has put forward today is that it's the government having to be protected from religion. And I think what we'll see later on is that that's kind of on its head. But Justin, that that is a good point. And we're we're going to get there for sure. Anybody else?

24:35 Yeah. So coming from the England Anglican style where there was literally a state religion, what that that is a conflation. That's like a, a joining together in a terrible way because now it's not a voluntary conversion or choice of of your belief if you want to survive politically or even economically or are really literally like if, if you don't want to get killed as a heretic, you got to join the state religion. I think that's what the primary motive of that comment of a wall, a separation and and just it's it's like you were saying, it's been so grossly misinterpreted, misapplied these days.

25:22 But that's what they were, that's what they were concerned with and that's what they were trying to get rid of was a central state-run cause cause basically, as I don't think it was in this these chapters, but I think it's comes up later in the book. Government is not eloquence, it's not persuasion, it's force. And you don't want to force anybody to adopt A certain belief because that violates this principle of freedom, agency and that sort of thing. So I think that that's really what Jefferson was getting at with that comment on the separation of church and state. It wasn't that the government had to be protected from religious influence. It was that religious influence had to trump government involvement.

26:17 It the the religious institutions had to be unfettered by government partiality or preference or any of that sort of thing. Absolutely. And like I said, we're going to cover that here in a second. But it is such a key point and it's important to keep in mind because today I believe this has been inverted. It's been tipped up on its head and it needs to be set back right so we can understand exactly what's happening. Anybody else? OK, so the first thing that we often get told is that the founders meant for this to be kind of a, a religious nationalist government.

27:09 And I don't see that. I don't, I think you have to stretch credulity a little bit to get there. And I'll, I'll present some some reasons for that. Why? But they definitely weren't interested in a Muslim nationalist country, a Jewish nationalist country, even a Christian nationalist country. And I'm I'm certain since it didn't exist, they weren't concerned about a Mormon nationalism. They had something else in mind. It was far more inclusive than that when it came to religion. And this is from Ben Franklin to Yale President Ezra Stiles. And Franklin said, here's my creed. I believe in one God, the creator of the universe, that he ought to be worshipped, that the most acceptable service we can render to him in doing good, excuse me, to him, is in doing good to his other children, that the soul of man is immortal. And what will be treated with justice in another life respecting its conduct in this these I take to be the fundamental points and all sound religion. So here Franklin is illuminating that in in sound religion, right?

28:29 Notice he didn't specify a specific religion itself, a specific deity even. He just says good sound religion are going to have these things. And so I broke these down and I want to talk about them a little bit and why they're important for the success of the American system of government. First, the acknowledgement that there is a Creator who made all things and mankind should recognize and worship him. Why is that important for for good governance in America?

29:12 Well, it's one of the foundational things is like due process and presumed innocent before proven guilty. If you, if you believe that there is a God and he will hold all men accountable for their actions in this life, and then you don't have to be worried about somebody getting away with a crime, right? Because when, when you are, when you have faith that even if there's problems in this earthly court system that God sees all, then then we can have a, a confidence in justice being ultimately done.

29:55 And if we're going to err, wouldn't it be way better to err on the side of presuming innocence than accidentally punishing an innocent man, you know, convicting somebody that that didn't do a crime? So that's, I think though that's one of the this particular point of good religion is found fundamental to the the principle of due process and, you know, presuming innocent, being presumed innocent until proven guilty. 100% if I'm not mistaken, Joseph Smith had a quote to the effect of I would rather see 10 guilty men go free than to wrongly convict an innocent man.

30:41 And So what you're saying there? Even Joseph Smith backs up good stuff. OK, let's move on to three or two and three, because I think they kind of go together. The Creator has revealed A moral code of behavior for happy living which distinguishes right from wrong, and the Creator holds mankind responsible for the way they treat each other. Does anybody want to talk about that a little bit? Does anyone have anything they want to add to those? I think this one would be that if the nation was full of evil men, well then our laws wouldn't suffice to combat that evil.

31:27 And and these crazy is just a recognition that there is right from wrong, there is good and evil. And so we need to encourage religion and morality in our country in order to stay on top of that, because the government isn't and shouldn't be big enough to do that for a country full of evil men. 100 percent, 100%. You know, the the thing that those two things reminded me of is King Benjamin's sermon, right? When you're in the service of your fellow being, you're only in service of your God. And then we go back to what Franklin says where he said, you know, that that will be accountable to him. And the best way we can render service to him is by rendering service to his children.

32:09 They're they're eerily reminiscent. And I'm not making the case that Joseph took these ideas. A lot of these writings were not within Joseph's purview of being able to handle, nor do I think that at his at the age that he wrote the Book of Mormon, I'm not sure he would have comprehended them immediately. So this idea that maybe he took it and then twisted it and put in the Book of Mormon holds no weight for me whatsoever. But nonetheless, the principle is the same across across the the spectrum.

32:51 You know, charity's a good way of looking at this. And I think this is a reason why it's so necessary. With every right there is a responsibility and with the right of, you know, the, the rights of, of, you know, the, the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, there is responsibilities. And I believe some of those responsibilities are that we help out our fellow citizens when we can, when they're in trouble, before we go seek redress from the from the government. It's our responsibility to look out for our neighbor. If we don't want the government taking excessive taxes under the guise of, of, of helping out the needy, then we have to fill the gap. We have to be able to step up and say, OK, that's going to be my responsibility.

33:48 I am my brother's keeper. And so these things tie in directly to that two and three, especially about how we treat each other. And I think it it speaks a little bit to the responsibility we have as citizens to look out for one another when we can without government interference. I saw a meme once where the Savior's teaching on, on, on that the sermon of the Mount and somebody from the Jesus says, if if you know somebody sues you for your coat, take two or, or give him two or or something like that.

34:32 No, it's if he sues you for your cloak, just give it to him. And then someone from the audience says, so you want us to give it to Caesar and then Caesar will distribute it. And the Savior says, OK, let me start again. It's kind of in that same vein. It's on us. It's not on the government. And I think if we want the government out of those things, then we have to step up to fill the vacuum on where that stands. Anybody else? I'm back. Sorry about that. You're. No, you're good, dude. So, you know, it's growing up in the 90s was a very high trust society. As a kid, we'd play outside at dark, we'd ride our bikes across town.

35:16 And these these things were OK to do because we lived in a, in a high trust society, similar types of not cities we see with things like shopping carts at grocery store to put a deposit in a coin in to, to be able to get a shopping cart out or just obey obedience to traffic laws and not harassing people on the road. There's so much about our lives in our interactions with people that is fundamentally kind of grounded in a belief, a shared belief in morality. And when you don't have that, not only does government go bad, just life goes bad. You, you go to the Walgreens and everything's locked behind doors and you, you need to get somebody to, to get your deodorant out of the out of the shelf because that's a, that's a low trust because we're becoming a more lower and low trust, lower trust society, right?

36:11 And that's really an indication of of the the failing of the institutions of religion. Absolutely, because. There's times in life where there's nobody there to to arrest you, there's nobody there to find you, there's nobody there to punish you if you don't do good. The only reason to is because of an innate belief in goodness. And if people don't have that anymore, forget God missed our families, our neighborhoods, our society decays and.

36:55 Absolutely, absolutely. I, I couldn't have said that any better myself. I, there, there is so much that we're lacking right now and, and sometimes it, I think it makes it feel like we're trying to force a round peg into a square hole. It's just not working because I don't think we have have the proper mindset to to make it work anymore. And we have to wake up to that a little bit. And to Justin's point about your the authorities aren't going to always be there. I think for a large portion, probably the first 120, maybe 150 years, there wasn't massive law enforcement around.

37:41 And yet people made it by just just fine. There wasn't FEMA, there wasn't those other things. And certainly people fell through the cracks. I don't want to minimize that, but by and large, people got taken care of. How did that happen with the absence of a government? And I think the answer is we were schooled better through our religions in in, in Christ, like living, if you will, or, or servant leadership, whatever you want to call it. Vanessa, I see your hand up. Yeah, I was just wanting to make a comment on that, that idea. You know, a lot of the justification for what the government does is, well, what about the poor people?

38:23 What about those in need? And I know that Bastiat writes about it. It's called like for it's called forced fraternity, which is doing good, but you're forced to do it. So there's no virtue in that. And that's it still needs to be done, but it has to be voluntarily done through religious groups and communities and people voluntarily helping their neighbor and not a government entity stepping in and filling that role. 100 percent, 100%. Vanessa, great point. You know, the other thing is, and as we're seeing in Minnesota, the government is horrible at charity.

39:06 I mean, just horrible. They waste more than they then they they, they help and that's if they really mean to help and they're not just laundering money. They're no good at this. Who is good at this? Are are typically churches. I remember, I remember I had knew a guy who was just content. I shouldn't say he was content. He was resigned to living on, on public assistance. And look, sometimes that's going to happen. I don't want to bash anybody for that. Sometimes, you know, that happens.

39:49 And I, I, I'm not so radical that I say we shouldn't have a, a safety net at all. I think if we can afford it, a small safety net is fine. I just don't want it to be a cookie jar. But at any rate. This was during my days in the LDS church. And he had finally just kind of had enough, came to the Bishop and told him what was going on. And I watched the process because I was in the Bishop brick, but got this guy on his feet, got him contributing, got him being productive. And he was so much happier after that because he was of service, right? Even though he was being paid, he was still of service. And I think there's so much of that that goes into this. And my, my point here is that that Bishop and that man could sit down together and reason through these things and in, in, in, in a far better way than what the government could administer.

40:47 Charity was able to be administered at the same time, the the recipient of that was given opportunities to better his himself and his situation. He took full advantage and then got off of the assistance and then became a contributor. And I think that should be the aim. But the government doesn't work that way. The government's not equipped for that. Once a government bureaucracy is in is set in place, it almost becomes entirely concerned with its own self preservation. And so it doesn't behoove them to actually cure poverty or to help people get on their feet. They only get the money and they only have jobs when there's people on the rolls.

41:39 And so it never really helps to to get rid of anything. It just just basically makes the people into a form of slave and and that would be one of those other reasons concerning 3 and 4. Yeah, I think it's super important we we stand in that gap and fill that responsibility, Taylor. Yeah, so going back to the the principle here of morality and religion being indispensable, the, the way that the lobbyists and the politicians and the special interest groups was even able to be to get people to not like revolt immediately to begin with when these bills to like create welfare programs and that sort of thing were coming up.

42:30 The, the, the reason that they were even able to be successful at that at all is because of the failure of the personal and and religious institutions to stand in that gap. And so I think that the the government that we're getting nowadays is a direct consequence of the failure of the people to be religious and, and morally and virtuous, not necessarily the other way around. You know, it's certainly the government causes people to be immoral when it has immoral laws that reward indolence and, and the wrong things. But it came about it from to from, to begin with, from the failure of religions and more moral people.

43:18 So I think that's a really important thing to note it to, to make note of if the people had actually stepped up in those hours of need when, when people were hurting and, and, and, and in need, they wouldn't have never had a case to make as politicians to create a welfare state. Absolutely. I think I've told the story before. I may not have, but like, in my opinion, one of the best presidents that we've ever had is Calvin Coolidge. And people like raise their eyebrows because they've never heard of the guy.

44:00 But he comes into power be if I'm not mistaken, the president died either of natural causes or an assassination, I can't remember. But he comes in when he takes the oath of office. He takes it by candlelight when he leaves office. Most houses have a radio in them now, electricity and indoor plumbing. And he, he kind of presides over the time that's the Roaring 20s and the roaring 20s gets looked at as a time of great disparaging, a great great greed. And don't get me wrong, there were certainly greed there, but there was also just just good old fashioned ingenuity and advancements in, in living situations.

44:51 Because as Coolidge comes in, they're already facing a, a, a potential depression. It was pretty much already a depression. And when asked what he was going to do, he confers with an economist who was of the opinion. You leave it alone and you let the market correct. And that's what happened. And that gave birth to the Roaring 20s. Anyway, Coolidge presides over a time when Texas was hit with just a nasty, nasty flood. Homes lost everything else. And the progressives, the early the early progressives wanted Coolidge to do something. They wanted him to mobilize the National Guard or, or send money down there or something.

45:39 And Coolidge said no, I'm not going to do that. And when asked why, he said I have faith in the American people that they will step up and do their duty. And he was correct. That whole town got rebuilt by their neighbors and by themselves, and it was done largely through religion, through philanthropies and through private individuals. And this idea that we could fill that gap, it seems so foreign to us now, like Taylor's pointing out. But it's not been that long ago that we were doing it as Americans. We just have to go back to that. And, and it does, it's a, it's a problem that feeds itself. Cause imagine how much more generous we would be capable of being if we didn't have any tax burden, right, 'cause you, you think back before 1913, there was no income tax, There was no like taxation.

46:33 It was primarily funded through tariffs and the states could impose taxes. But like, that's such a foreign concept to us nowadays. And yet that was just that was the life of the early American frontier era, so. That was part of being American. I mean, that was just, that was part of it. You had your rights, but you had your responsibilities too. And I would say this as as you read through your rights, be cognizant of that right as you read through the 2nd Amendment. Now ask yourself what's my responsibility in regards to the Second Amendment and come up with that and, and be just as concerned with your responsibilities as you are with your rights and that will carry things forward quite a bit. Anybody else on these on on two and three before we wrap up this part here on 4:00 and 5:00?

47:26 I hate to drag this out anymore but I kind. Of your. Desire to step onto a soapbox for a moment and just say that a lot of these problems can be traced back to a certain failure of of churches to be honest and the rise of the mega church in America. Right now. There's a big case out in Texas where a bunch of hired pastors of the Second Baptist Church basically changed the bylaws and stole 100 year old church for themselves while they were in power. You got the the charismatic movement. A lot of these churches like Bethel, they're kind of falling apart. Is it turns out there's all these scams and the people knew they were scams and the leadership didn't do anything. When you have churches that defer people to government welfare before providing assistance themselves, these these things are the problem.

48:23 And I think it's because even the good Christians at this point, I've started to lose faith in their religious institutions through hypocrisy and malfeasance. And it if those attitudes don't change, if people can't trust in their in their church and their religion to fulfill that role, then the only, the only option is government, right? And even, I think even good, well meaning Christians are going to be like, well, yeah, but I know, I know my church. So I mean, I kind of would rather have the government taking care of this because at least then there's something I, I feel like the, the, the religious institutions of America need to get back to the fundamentals really and regain the, that trust. And I don't know.

49:16 But I, I, I kind of feel like a lot of times things, we look at stuff and say this is the government's fault. But to a certain degree, I think this is something we can look at and say, you know, I think, I think the churches have been dropping the ball in America for too long and it it needs to get turned around. I, I excuse me, I agree with you. I will say also that a lot of these problems are a direct result of ourselves as well. To go along with that, right? We, we look at the churches, they're not doing the job. That's an issue. I would also say religion's been on a downward, downward spiral in America. You know, certainly the debate can be had about whether that's the result of having bad churches or people not attending just because they're moving past religion. But I think that's an interesting thing I'd like to take a look at for more data.

50:12 But you're right, Justin, that does not help one bit. Kim, I see your hands up. Yeah, since Justin came back to churches, I just wanted to add to what he was saying a little bit earlier. I, I think his microphone kind of cut off, but he was going into the the role of churches and the role of the government during the COVID era. And while the government, the policies they made while COVID was a hot item, was absolutely an infringement on the free exercise of churches, you know, the government saying you have to close the church is absolutely an encroachment of their power. But also it is the churches that acquiesced to that. The churches just kind of roll over, rolled over. I'm not aware of any church that actually got punished for for for standing up for their rights. And and then Justin was also saying how churches like to have the same talking points of the government. Well, that's those churches choice to do that. I don't, I, I think, I think a lot of this burden is on to churches and us as individuals because as we keep saying, our rights have responsibilities married to them. And that's as true for churches as it is for us. 100% great point, Kim.

51:30 All right, anything else on these two before we move on? Don't feel like we got to speed past them if there's something you really want to talk about there. OK, so Taylor kind of touched on four and five. All men live beyond this life in the next life. Mankind are judged for their conduct in this life. So there's two schools of thought here on this, right? Taylor hit on one of them for sure, which was we're so you know, justice will be done one way or another in this life or next. Justice will be done and we can take comfort in that. However, there's something else to this idea. And I and look for so often we've heard people say, well, I don't care if my president goes to church or not or I don't care if my president is religious or not. I kind of do and I'm going to tell you why, because sometimes if a guy believes, gosh, I'm going to be accountable in the next life and he's up against a hard decision, those principles are going to kick in.

52:43 If he's going to live his religion and if he desires to be to, to, to be OK with his God, it's, it's going to be necessary for him to do correct things and make the correct decisions, the moral decisions. And so I do kind of care a little bit. Now I'm, I'm not going to say that if, if a guy doesn't go to church, that that's an automatic disqualifier. I'd want to take a look at the guy, but I do think it can be a good indication of what they're doing, keeping in mind there's always room for hypocrisy, right? Some guys are going to get up there and say, Oh, I go every Sunday and you know, sure enough he does, but he sleeps through it.

53:27 Or, you know, if they attend a church like, you know, the one that that a certain president attended in Chicago with the righteous reverend, you know, I can't remember what his name was now, but yeah, there, there's some things to think about even if they do attend. But it can be a good barometer. Taylor, I see your hand up. Yeah, the criteria shouldn't be like where which church he attends. It should be. So like for instance, you know Joseph Smith, there were members of the council of 50 when he was trying to establish the Kingdom of God as a political entity.

54:08 There was non members and the reason that people was were were willing to support Joseph Smith in that office in that role was actually because they were confident that he wasn't going to try to force them to join his religion, but he would die before allowing somebody else to trounce on their religious freedom and liberties. And so like that's kind of the as a as in the role of a out of a executive officer, like that's really what matters. That's the the key, most important stuff, right, is not necessarily is he my religion, but is, is he going to go to bat for all religions and uphold these principles of freedom and, and freedom of conscience and religion and all that stuff? A. 100% I would usually if a oh, go ahead Justin, sorry. Oh, sorry, I would say I, I just wanted to add that even you got to look for fruit.

55:09 You got to really look for fruit because you know, we, we've got presidents that have histories of adultery. That's, that's fruit. That's, those are things we should be looking at. Doesn't matter what church you're going to. But like, are you honest? When Mitt, when Mitt Romney was running, he was saying one thing to the to the LGBTQ lobby and something very different to his constituents. You you've got. So is he really honest in his dealings with his fellow man? If he's telling one people one thing and somebody else something else? Those are the things we got to be looking at more than necessarily what church. But but there's plenty of that to look at.

55:51 There's plenty of that going around and not just are the what bad things are they avoiding, but which, what good things are they involved with? What positive projects have they been promoting and and trying to get attention to? 100% and and that fruit thing is huge, right? Look, I will name he who shall not be named this one time, but the former Senator Harry Reid drove me crazy. Here's a guy who professed to be a believing Mormon but yet voted time after time to enshrine abortion as as a an undeniable right. All sorts of leftist causes that just really seem to fly in the face of of revealed doctrine and Mormonism, right? That's a guy you'd want to judge by your fruit regardless of where he goes to church.

56:52 So to Justin's point, I think he's he's 100% spot on there. Anybody else? All right, let's go ahead and move on. So I get asked a lot when when I talk to other people about this. But Dave, what about Zion? Won't that be a Mormon nationalist community? Well, I, I want to talk about that a little bit. Actually, I want to let Brigham Young talk about this. And you can find this from Journal Discourses to page 316. And it says they will be drawn to Zion by the great wisdom displayed there. And we'll attribute it to the cunning and craftiness of men. It will be asked, what do you want to do, ye strangers from afar?

57:42 Why we want to live our own religion. Will you bow the knee before God with us? Oh yes, we would as soon do it as not. And at that time every knee shall bow and every tongue acknowledge that God who is the framer and maker of all things, the governor and counselor of the universe. They will have to bow the knee and confess that he is God and that Jesus Christ who suffered for the sins of the world is actually it's Redeemer. That by the shedding of his blood he has redeemed men, women, children, beasts, birds, fish, the earth itself and everything John saw and heard praising in heaven. They will ask if I bow the knee and confess that he is the that he, he is that Savior, the Christ to the glory of God. Will you let me go home and be a Presbyterian? Yes, and not persecute me?

58:43 Never won't let me go home. And won't you let me go home and belong to the Greek church? Yes. Will you allow me to be a friend Quaker or a shaking Quaker? Oh yes. Anything you wish to be. But remember that you must not persecute your neighbors, but you must mind your own business and let your neighbors alone, and let them worship the sun, moon, a white dog, or anything else they please, being mindful that every knee has got to bow in every tongue. Confess when you have paid this tribute to the Most High who created you and preserves you. You may then go and worship what you please, or do what you please if you do not infringe upon your neighbors.

59:31 This is painting a very different picture of Zion than I think. Certainly I had in mind when I was a younger man. I thought that it would be by Mormons, for Mormons and only for them. But Brigham paints a different question. And it's interesting that it comes from Brigham, who is way harsher than many of us would ever be. But nonetheless, it it makes time for that. And then going back to what Franklin said and those other items, we looked at those, those qualities of good religion. I do believe that you can find those in many, many religions. Those baseline things a, a belief in a creator that there is a moral code on how we treat each other and that will be judged according to what we do here in regards to treating other people. I think those principles are universal and and show up in a lot of different religions.

1:00:33 And I think that's why the founders were so confident that they could put forward this idea of of religion playing a a massive role in the American system of government without getting specific and naming certain religions. Does anyone have anything they would like to add here before we move on? Just one last point on nationalism. This concept of Christian nationalism is, I think, that the ultimate Christian nationalist government that's ever existed is the United States government, because Christ is not a coercive person that's going to force you to accept him.

1:01:15 Absolutely, 100% good point. I would just also add that even Islam can behave itself to be honest. I mean, I've visited my sister in Malaysia, it's an Islamic country, but they got a lot of Buddhists and Hindus, even a few Christians, and they can all get along. It's it's actually possible? Yeah, absolutely, Cherise. Yeah, I'm trying to find the reference, and bear with me, I have a little bit of a headache, but the book of Micah in the Bible also talks a lot about this idea that people who come to Zion, anyone who's willing to not fight against their neighbor will be welcome. I think it's Micah chapter 4, and that they will worship their gods and we will worship our gods, and just anyone who can be nice to each other and not impose on everybody else's religious freedoms will be welcome. And I again, I think that's Micah four. I was trying to find the exact reference but was unable to, but I I love I had never heard that Brigham Young had said that as well, so that's that's fairly cool. Thank you for sharing.

1:02:30 You bet. And, and in Full disclosure, I had to ask Justin where that was. Again. I'd read it years before and I could never find it. And fortunately, Justin had the technology so. I'm an expert in anti Christian nationalism. Right, right. Well, I kind of put you on the hook to do that. Sorry about that. Yeah, no, it, it, it is interesting, right? And it's far more. It it it's a little. Bit bigger tent than what I think we had initially, or let me rephrase that, that I had initial initially thought about as as a younger man and in my walk as a Mormon. All right, anybody else?

1:03:11 OK, let's go ahead and move on here. So what about the separation of church and state, or the wall between government and religion? I think when we look at this, we have to ask the other question. We kind of start to dive into it. Maybe a better way of understanding this is to ask a clarifying question, which would be, with the establishment of the separation of church and state, who is being protected from whom? I think the one way we can answer this is just go to the document itself, right Says Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof. There is only one thing that I think Barack Obama has ever said publicly that I agree with him on, and it was when he was teaching constitutional law, I believe. I can't remember what university it was, but there's an old clip where he says when you look at the Constitution in the Bill of Rights, you have to understand that that is a charter of negative liberties on the government and he should have stopped it there.

1:04:34 He didn't. He went on to screw it all up. But in that in that assessment, I do believe he's right. Much of our founding documents are sincerely, honestly worried about what the government can do to you. And you have to understand where the founders were coming from. They were coming from a place where the government was in your back pocket, cradle to grave. And that's something that they were desperately seeking to try to remedy. And so we see this again in this quote, right? Congress is not to make a law establishing a church or prohibiting the free exercise of religion.

1:05:17 That is a negative liberty, right? That is something in government can't do. So right there, that quote tells us that the founders were very concerned about what religion, what government could do to religion. Jefferson said this In matters of religion. I have considered that it's free. Free exercise is placed by the Constitution independent of the powers of general government, and I have therefore undertaken on no occasion to prescribe the religious exercises suited to it, but have left them as the Constitution found them, under the direction and discipline of the State or church authorities acknowledged by their several religious societies. I want to talk here for just a second. Jefferson mentioned the state.

1:06:09 It's important to realize that when the founders say anything, like when they say anything not specifically mentioned here, is a matter for the states. The States and the people were synonymous terms that could be interchanged. In those days. The states were looked at as the people's voice, and then Washington was the federal voice, not George Washington, but Washington, DC And so when it says that it's at the direction of the discipline of the state, it's talking about the people. And even that had to be hammered out, in my opinion. It got hammered out through the Civil War that the government can enforce the protection of rights to men and and people everywhere. And inside the country, they did have that jurisdiction. And it's ultimately what Joseph Smith is begging the federal government to do with what happened in Missouri. He was seeking redress.

1:07:12 He was like, you've got to make this right. And up until that, up until the Civil War, it was never tested if the federal government had a place in defending people's rights or if that was simply left to the states at large. And So what what Jefferson is saying here is that look, if we this is a matter for the people, we as a government cannot inter intercede ourselves here. So again, this wall of separation seems to be far more concerned about protecting religion from government. Moving on here, something else that's interesting. Another quote from Jefferson.

1:08:01 In our village of Charlottesville, there's a good degree of religion with a small spice only of fanaticism. We have 4 sects, but without either church or meeting house. The courthouse is the common temple. One Sunday in the month to each hear Episcopalian and Presbyterian, Methodist and Baptist meet together, join in Hemming their maker, listen with attention and devotion to each other's preachers, and all mix in society with perfect harmony. It blew my mind when I was like, wait a second, they were using the courthouse as a church. But nonetheless, that's what it was. So it's not that Jefferson is worried about the proximity of government and religion together. It seems to me the founders were much more worried about protecting religion from government. Taylor, you kind of hit on this before. Why were they so concerned about that? Well, they had some PTSD from Anglicanism and all the other, you know, the, there was people coming out of England that were trying to escape religious tyranny. There was the, the, the well, the Puritans, the separatists, they were all seeking religious freedom and they were coming from, I mean, the Holy Roman Empire was again, a state sponsored religious deal.

1:09:29 So all of that combined, these guys were the ultimate freedom of religion people. They that's why they had come and sacrificed everything left their homes to, to find that freedom. Absolutely. I think when I think when we start looking at the divine right of kings, we can see where this goes off the rail quite a bit. I want to say this the outset, there are things that I both like and dislike about Trump, but one of the most frightening things I ever heard actually came from a preacher named Mark Driscoll about about the government and religion. And it, it frightened me to my core when I heard it, he said. What we've seen now is that religion has fallen asleep at the job.

1:10:26 And so now our Christian morality is going to come through the government. For all of us who understand government's proper role in these things, that should chill our blood a little bit. Because if that was to happen, I don't think we can necessarily make the case that they'll be lining up to side with us, right? Or that we would be considered one of their friends. But also because we don't want government telling us what is legitimate religion or not. If we did, you could bet your bottom dollar that Mormonism does not have the ability to flourish in America like it had. And even that had to be fought for and was still, blood was still spilled because of that.

1:11:20 And so we this idea of church and state, we have to really look and realize that this wasn't about protecting government from religion. This was about protecting religion from government. That when the two intermarry, it gives birth to an abomination that seeks to devour man's rights and not preserve them. And that that should be worrisome. Does anybody have anything they would like to add here? OK, go ahead and we'll move on.

1:12:03 All right. Now we're going to move on to Principal 5 here, which is the the role of the creator. And this was a short section, but one of the things I wanted to address is this idea that that the founding fathers were deists, and we need to define what that is. First, Deists have a belief in the existence of a supreme being, specifically of a creator who does not intervene in the universe. The term is used chiefly of an intellectual movement of the 17th and 18th centuries that accepted the existence of a creator on the basis of reason, but rejected belief in a supernatural deity who interacts with humankind. One of the ways I heard had this explained to me when I was in college, taking a course on on the unconstitutional law and that sort of thing.

1:13:10 Starting out here was kind of the clockmaker model. So the God of the deist will basically create something, wind it up, and then walk away from it and let it do whatever it is it's going to do, right? Much like a clock maker makes a clock, he winds it, and then he walks away. Then the clock takes over and does what it does with no more interference from the clock maker. And it's a very impersonal God. It's a God that doesn't necessarily have an overwhelming love for his creation or his children. It is just a tinkerer who cosmically gets bored and wants to do something.

1:13:53 And creations appears out of that. And they ascribe the founding fathers as being deists. And I take exception with that quite a bit. I think that the writings are so overwhelming as to to otherwise point differently. Now, I do want to say this that Franklin in in his earlier life does seem to want to flirt with this idea of of deism, but ends up going a different direction. And I believe I have a quote from him that would illuminate that. Justin, I see your hand up, bro.

1:14:35 Yeah, I was just going to just add to that, that, you know, Jefferson's also kind of looked at as a deist because he rejected a lot of the miraculous biblical events. But that still does not really make him a deist. You can still believe that God has his hand on Providence, but maybe isn't, you know, performing outright amazing, you know miracles to that degree. The the the you know the the motto America and God we trust is as anti deist as you can get you you don't trust in the watch.

1:15:15 You don't trust in what biology I these things are. They're the modern academics have taken some of these ideas too far. What really was a lot of the founders were disagreed with the common religious sentiments and ideas and doctrines. But that doesn't make them deists it it means they were waiting for the restoration in my opinion. Well, yeah. And I think in that first class, I showed that quote from Jefferson where he basically makes a prophecy that he foresaw a time when somebody from from this this new government, not government, but from from America would step up to restore Christianity. And it was just AI believe it may have even been the year that Joseph Smith was born.

1:16:07 But we're going to get to Jefferson on this matter because I like you, Justin, take take exception with this a little bit. This is from George Washington. Again, many said that he was a deist. He says no people can be bound to acknowledge and adore the invisible hand which conducts the affairs of men, conducts the affairs of men more than the people of the United States. Every step by which they have advanced to the character of an independent nation seems to have been distinguished by some token of providential agency. Right. Washington saying, look, of all people on the earth, the people of the United States, we understand we saw the hand of God. Again, seeing the hand of God move, conducting the affairs of men, having having some token of providential agency. Again, that seems to fly in the face of this idea of the clockmaker just going to wind it up and let it go here. Washington's definitely saying no people, God is involved. God was involved in the revolution. James Madison.

1:17:21 The real wonder is, is that so many difficulties should have been surmounted with a unanimity, unanimity almost as impossible for any man of candor to reflect on this circumstance without partaking of the astonishment. It is the IT is impossible for the man of pious reflection not to perceive in it a finger of the Almighty hand, which had been so frequently signaling a singly extended to our relief in the critical stages of the revolution. Once again, Madison echoing the same sentiments as Washington. God was involved with the revolution.

1:18:01 We saw it. His hand was upon this movement. OK, moving on, Thomas Jefferson, I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just and His justice cannot sleep forever. Back to Justin's point, Thomas Jefferson, maybe with the exception of Ben Franklin, is labeled as a deist more frequently than any of, of any other founding father that we have. It's interesting to note here that Thomas Jefferson's remark here has to do with man's freedom. This, look, I want to give plenty of space here. We, we, we have various opinions on the priesthood ban. And I don't want to get into to a, a discussion on that, but I, I do.

1:19:03 I would at least hope that all of us could recognize that there was some problems with antebellum slavery, right? And it wasn't necessarily the type of indentured servitude that was talked about in the Bible. And so Jefferson here is saying, gosh, I'm, I'm worried for my country here if we don't walk up to the things we say we're about that all men deserve to, to be free and to have liberty. And he gets nervous when he realizes that God's justice can't sleep forever. Again, that seems to fly in the face of this idea of a very impersonal God, a God who is not involved in the affairs of man. And so once again, this idea that the Founding Fathers were DS just doesn't hold water.

1:19:57 And then on to Ben Franklin. And again, I do want to give. I, I, I do want to say that you can find some quotes from his earlier life where he seems to be flirting with deism a little bit. But later in his life, specifically around the time of the Constitution, Constitutional Convention, if you look at many of his writings, he seems to be firmly out of the camp of deism. And this is just one example. And this takes this, this quote is from the the Constitutional Convention. And it says in this situation of this assembly, groping as it were in the dark to find political truth and scarce able to distinguish it when presented to us. How has it happened, Sir, that we have not hitherto thought of humbly applying to the Father of Lights to illuminate our understanding?

1:20:51 In the beginning of the contest with Great Britain, when we were sensible of danger, we had daily prayer in this room for the Divine protection. Our prayer, Sir, were heard, and they were graciously answered. All of us were engaged in the struggle, must have observed frequent instances of a superintending Providence in our favor. To that kind of Providence, we owe this happy opportunity of consulting in peace on the means of establishing our future national Felicity. And we have now. And have we now forgotten that powerful friend, or do we imagine that we no longer need his assistance?

1:21:36 OK. Franklin eloquently points out that hey, during the revolution we met in this room so often and we prayed for God's protection. We prayed for God's favor in this, We prayed to be on his side and our prayers were answered. And now all of a sudden you guys are like, don't think you need them anymore. And what's interesting, and, and this is what I would say in regards to modern academia is that you have to go read primary sources. Do not, don't take my word for it. Don't take anybody else's word for it. Go look at the original sources yourself because that's going to tell the tale.

1:22:21 There is a quote from Franklin about this time where he said some of the men save it be 5 or 6 in the constitutional Convention. Felt like prayer wasn't needed. Modern scholars have picked that up, that one little sentence and said, oh, see, Franklin is a deist. At best, he's a deist, if not an atheist. Well, when you read the full contact, when you read the full context of that, he is, he is chastising that group of men like he is here for not being quicker to get on their knees and ask for heaven's help. And so this idea of the founding fathers being deists, I just don't believe the history supports that. I think if we look, I think the best you can say is that the vast, vast majority of the founding fathers were devout men who believed in a personal God who was intimately involved with mankind both on the micro and the macro. And that is bore out time and again by by their own writings. Certainly they go through phases like any person does throughout their life.

1:23:38 But as Justin pointed out, many of the founding fathers critiques of religion, specifically Christianity, has to do with an idea that they have of we have lost some things out of this religion that have to come back somehow. And I think that's we need to keep that in the forefront of our minds here as we do our own reading and perform our own scholarship in these matters. Does anyone have anything they'd like to add to this section here? OK, we'll go ahead and we'll move on.

1:24:19 We're almost through what I thought I had more, maybe not. OK, that was it. All right, so that's that takes us through principle #5 Next week we will do 6-7 and eight. It's only about 19 pages worth of reading, so these are really short chapters coming up, but does anybody have anything they want to say in conclusion? OK, good enough.

1:25:02 I guess we can go ahead and we can we can wrap it up for the night. Corey, would you mind giving us a closing prayer? Yeah, I'm here. All right, awesome. You bet. All right, our dear Father in heaven, we're grateful under the Today just to have these kind of conversations where we, you know, take a look at what's going on in history and try to apply them to ourselves and just wisely choose, you know, the kind of government that we would prefer.

1:25:44 And also learning from these folks who have spent so much time and studying history and trying to come up with the answers to bring about the most freedom for all of us. Help our understanding to grow on this topic. And ask Thy blessings on each of us here with our families and our needs, wants and desires that we might feel by peace in our lives more as we study these topics and strive to choose more wisely with our political ideologies so that we can kind of develop thy character and how we treat others.

1:26:27 As religion is very much attached to our political ideologies. So we really want to understand them and be righteous and how we apply our politics. Just ask for God blessing to continue with all of us until you know, we get together again next week and that all of our needs will be not until then. In the name of Jesus Christ, Amen. Amen. Thanks everybody.