Episode #226: For Love Of Their Children- Adam, Eve, & The Fall In Context W/Taylor Smith

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Taylor, we're back.
Hey good to see you again.

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What's going on dude?
Oh just living the dream.

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I've been enjoying my 8th baby
who arrived a month ago

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tomorrow.
Nice, nice sleepless nights.

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Relatively, yeah, it's a it's
just always a a learning curve

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to adapt a new one.
And when they're that little,

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there's not much I can do.
So it's mostly on the mom to.

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No, that was the one thing that
I had kind of forgot about when

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when we had Asher was like, I
really am kind of useless here

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for a little while, right?
I mean, like, I can, I can bring

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diapers, I can hold the baby, I
can give her a break.

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But realistically, I'm kind of
worthless for a hot minute.

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And very no, yeah.
And, and every kid you have is a

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little bit different, right?
It's a little, it's a little bit

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different.
It's not like you can certainly

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you get more relaxed with the
the whole process, but at the

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end it's always a little bit
different when they're born.

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Yep.
So, well, good.

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I'm glad he's healthy.
How's how's everything else

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going for you?
Going good.

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I've been on paternity leave so
my company provides a good long

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bit of that which is huge
blessing.

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None of my other companies I've
ever worked for have have been

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so generous, so I can't complain
about.

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That and you can afford that
kind of time.

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It makes it nice not only for
for the baby, but for mom as

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well.
Well, I work for a tech company

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and, and they're kind of,
they're LA based.

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And so during COVID it was a big
pain because you know, they're

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just, they're awoke.
But then they came out about 3

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years ago and was like, hey, we
can't be treating the genders

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differently.
And so instead of giving women

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four months of maternity leave
and men a month of paternity

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leave, they're like, we got to
give everybody the same.

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So now both birthing parents and
non birthing parents.

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Emphasis on the air quotes.
If you can't, if you're just

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listening.
I mean, it's, it's so just

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nonsense.
Nevertheless, it's the one time

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that it has aired in my favor.
I guess I can't complain too

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much about.
Sometimes, sometimes you just

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got to be like a pirate and just
go ahead and raid that ship and

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take all the goods, right?
That's all you're doing.

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Look, there's a few things and
and again, I know I got

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listeners in Europe and I love
you guys, but but there's a few

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things I think Europe got right.
Everything else.

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I kind of like Ron Swanson from
Parks and Recs.

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I tend to believe history
started in 1776.

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Everything before that was kind
of a mistake and but like I want

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to try out the four day work
week.

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To me that looks awesome, right?
I wouldn't mind giving that a

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go.
I think that has has some

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benefits that we have yet to
explore.

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But every once in a while you'll
find a good system even in the

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place where you don't expect it
and you just got to take

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advantage of it.
Well, you don't have to push a

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hand cart to be a pioneer, Dave,
So let's pioneer the four day

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work week and.
Check, check.

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Yeah, Nope.
Well, dude.

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So here we are.
We're going to talk about Adam

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and Eve.
Yes, Sir.

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All right, So what what about
exactly Adam and Eve?

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Like are are we covering the
whole story?

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Like what's?
What's your thoughts?

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Yeah, so it started off.
I was at a youth fireside and

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the the leader the that was
leading the conversation was we

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were going through a Book of
Mormon study, like class study

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session and we were reading some
stuff.

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I guess that's as good a place
as they need to start.

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It's Jacob chapter 4, verse
three.

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I'll just pull that up real
quick and let's see.

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We read now in this thing we do
rejoice, and we labor diligently

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to engrave in these words upon
plates, hoping that our beloved

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brethren and our children will
receive them with thankful

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hearts and look upon them that
they may learn with joy and not

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with sorrow, neither with
contempt concerning their first

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parents.
And so, you know, this is Jacob

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speaking and, you know, I've
read that dozens of times in my

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life.
And, and, and in my mind, I was

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like, oh, so they're keeping a
record of their history so that

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they so that the descendants of
Lehigh would, you know, not look

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at Lehigh and Soraya.
They're the first parents of the

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of the Nephite and Lamanite
civilization with contempt.

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And obviously because, you know,
the Lamanites, they had a lot of

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false traditions and they had a
lot of contempt for their

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brother Nephi.
And we learn about that in the

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when Ammon and his brethren go
and visit the Lamanites on their

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ministry.
And they're like, they were

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really had a lot of contempt for
they called him like a, you

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know, we were wronged.
Our fathers were robbed by your

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father's.
And, you know, just that sort of

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a narrative and, and it's
interesting to kind of see that

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because that's ultimately the
same story that Luciferians want

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to claim is that Lucifer was
wronged and that he was actually

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the good guy and Jesus was the
usurper and all of these things,

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you know, kind of similar
parallels to some of that

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theology.
And it was just real

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interesting, though.
One of the gals, in fact, you

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recently had her.
I, I'm, I, I didn't talk with

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her, but I don't, I guarantee, I
really don't think she would

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mind.
But so Michaela Tolman, Zach's

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fiance, who was just on the
podcast a couple weeks ago, she

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was there and she pointed out
that most often, especially when

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Christians talk about the first
parents, they are specifically

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referring to Adam and Eve.
And you know, I've been thinking

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a lot about Adam and Eve.
In fact, I have a kind of a

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music project.
Maybe we can tease a little bit

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of that at the end here, but so
it's been on my mind and and

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just seeing that connection
because part the whole point of

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Adam and Eve is to find joy and
rejoicing in the sorrow.

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And and yet when we look at
these types of stories with

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contempt, which is what the
Christians do and what's what

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the, you know, the anti Mormons
and, and it, you know, atheists,

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anti Mormons, everybody hates
Adam and Eve, right?

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Yeah, we're the only ones that
have a love affair with them,

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right?
Everybody else, they are the

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source of our problems.
They're the reason hay doesn't

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bail itself and cheeseburgers
don't grow on trees, right?

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Is because of everything that
Adam and Eve did, specifically

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Eve, right?
She gets the biggest brunt of

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it.
But yeah, it's like they blame

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if, if man, if it hadn't been
for them biting the apple.

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I mean, I've heard people on my
mission and, and throughout

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conversations throughout my
life, you know, just just really

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hating on them, right.
And and so that kind of inspired

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a music project that I'm working
on with my buddy Justin.

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He's my brother-in-law and and a
couple other people that are

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kind of we we've invited to help
contribute to that.

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Basically celebrating and
restoring the proper

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restoration.
This type of perspective to, you

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know, giving our heaven, you
know, our parents, Adam and Eve,

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they're just dues as far as the
respect that we that we owe to

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them for their sacrifice.
You know, so often we look in

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the Book of Mormon at the
sacrifices of Jesus, which

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granted he deserves every little
bit that we can give of of

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appreciation for his sacrifice
for us.

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But the condescension of God.
In fact, there's other

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scriptures in the Book of Mormon
that talk about notice thou not

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the condescension of God and you
know, father and mother

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condescending.
We're kind of going going a

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little out of the order.
I had some thoughts put together

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and organize.
I'm OK with just winging it, but

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maybe it would make sense to
maybe back up for just a second

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and and address a couple of
things.

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So that was the genesis, the
kind of the origin story of, of

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why I asked if we could maybe
talk, have this conversation on

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today's podcast episode.
Just because there's so much

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misunderstanding, there's so
much anger and and contempt that

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people even, you know,
fundamentalist, not so much, but

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even members, some members of
the restoration that the non

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Brighamite branches, which are
kind of a little bit more

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Protestant leaning, you could
say.

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And so just to kind of help
provide some extra understanding

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of why I personally feel that
that we owe them a major and

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eternal debt of gratitude.
So what I had let's let's start

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off by talking about sectarian
Christianity has a theology that

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they refer to as original sin.
Now original sin is is is

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basically this concept that we
are all inheritors of sin

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because of Adam's sin.
So Adam was the first Sinner.

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We are sinners and, and the
reason that we're all, you know,

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in this terrible world, you
know, which is the perspective

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of many is, is because of Adam.
And so the original sin theology

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says that that this is where
things like infant baptism come

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from, You know, 'cause like for
me, I've been holding my little

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newborn and he is just an Angel,
right?

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He's perfect.
There is no sin.

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There's not a speck of sin in
his soul.

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Nevertheless, Christians would
claim that if I don't get him

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baptized, the, you know, he and
like, if he was to, you know,

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tragically die prematurely or
something, that that he would be

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rotting in hell, which is just
beyond conscionable for me.

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And so that's but that's
basically the fruits of original

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sin.
Is this idea that we're all

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fallen.
Everybody is comes out of the

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womb sinful.
And yeah.

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So anything else you want to add
to that?

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I mean, I'm sure you've had
conversations with.

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Christian about the thought, the
thought about it, especially

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about, you know, babies,
children, young children going

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to hell because of something
that happened, however X many

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thousands of years ago, right,
is repugnant to me, right.

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I kind of feel sometimes when
when I think about that, that

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verse from I think that Tim is
Oh my father by Eliza Snow where

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she said reason screams no, I
have to have a mother there

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right.
Much the same way.

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I think if people are honest
with themselves, your very soul

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screams out no at that concept.
It is I find it hard to believe

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that God would be pleased with
people thinking that about him

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because it does not fit with the
attributes of a just and loving

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God.
And so as we look at at this

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particular doctrine, doctrine
which is found in the creeds,

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it's got to be, it's repugnant.
It's repugnant on so many

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levels.
It's repugnant to the human

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soul.
And I believe it to be repugnant

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to God.
I you know, I'll never pretend

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to speak for the Almighty, but
what I do know of him is that he

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can't be pleased with that
action.

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Well, the other thing is it's
it, it would be a partial God.

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And you know, you, you don't, we
don't have to speak for God.

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He says it over and over.
It's almost like he takes

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offense.
He takes umbrage at the audacity

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of anybody to accuse him of
showing partiality.

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And yet this original sin
doctrine, false doctrine, we'll

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just call it what it is, is is
an accusation that God is shows

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partiality to some of his
children.

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He is a respecter of persons.
And he's a respecter of persons.

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When, when you get down to it,
he we, we are charging him with

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the thing that he has said many
times in the scripture.

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He is not.
Yeah, exactly.

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So I'd, I'd completely agree
with that 100%.

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And you know, and to contrast
that, I, I just read this Jacob

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chapter 4, verse 3, but just the
last couple of lines that that

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we can receive these records.
Like so they're talking about

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the, the brass plates and just
the golden plates, the, the

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records that they're keeping as
well.

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Why?
So that their children, their

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descendants can look back at the
history with joy and not with

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sorrow or contempt.
And you know, it's interesting.

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Ammon also when he was
ministering to King Lemoni, the

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first thing that he brings up is
he expounds the scriptures to a

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beginning at Adam.
Yeah.

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This is a really important story
and it always has been.

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And so it's, it's really
important to First off, have a

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correct understanding ourselves,
but also be able to explain it

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to our children in a, in an
understandable way.

225
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And you know, there's, there's a
lot in second Nephi chapter 2.

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For the sake of time, I don't
know if we'll, we'll dive deep

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00:14:27,880 --> 00:14:32,680
into that, but let's just talk
for a second about why it's such

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00:14:32,680 --> 00:14:38,120
an important distinction between
original sin theology versus the

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00:14:38,120 --> 00:14:40,400
kind of the restoration
theology.

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And, and I'll just talk about
some of the things that I that

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00:14:46,840 --> 00:14:52,440
first come to my mind when I'm
considering that is if we are

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guilty because of Adam's
transgression, then we are

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victims of somebody else's
actions, their agency, right?

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00:15:04,400 --> 00:15:08,960
Right, right.
And, and once again, if that's

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the case, God would once again
seem like the bully, right?

236
00:15:13,760 --> 00:15:16,920
Here's somebody who's already
been victimized and now we're

237
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going to punish them because of
their transgressors sin, right?

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00:15:22,960 --> 00:15:25,640
They're already, they're already
reaping the benefits of that and

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00:15:25,640 --> 00:15:27,840
then to do it again.
We're already hurting.

240
00:15:28,600 --> 00:15:30,320
Yeah, yeah, you're already
hurting, right?

241
00:15:30,320 --> 00:15:35,920
It it just again not a a
characteristic of a just and

242
00:15:35,920 --> 00:15:37,600
loving God.
Right.

243
00:15:39,040 --> 00:15:41,520
So it brings this, this victim
mentality.

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00:15:42,800 --> 00:15:48,840
Another thing that it brings is
again, you know, blaming other

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00:15:48,840 --> 00:15:51,800
people, you know, I guess that
contempt, right?

246
00:15:52,080 --> 00:15:56,320
But we're always as humans,
we're always making excuses for

247
00:15:56,320 --> 00:16:01,640
ourselves, right?
And and justifying our own poop

248
00:16:02,920 --> 00:16:06,960
because of somebody else's, you
know, blaming, trying to blame

249
00:16:06,960 --> 00:16:10,800
somebody else.
So, and again, blame is the is

250
00:16:10,800 --> 00:16:14,360
the enemy of responsibility.
So if we want to take

251
00:16:14,360 --> 00:16:19,400
responsibility for our actions,
our decisions, the things that

252
00:16:19,400 --> 00:16:24,600
we do, we cannot be blaming
somebody else for our failures

253
00:16:24,600 --> 00:16:29,400
and our shortcomings and our
faults. 100% You ever read a

254
00:16:29,400 --> 00:16:31,880
book by Jocko Willnut called
Extreme Ownership?

255
00:16:32,360 --> 00:16:36,320
Oh yeah, I love that book.
And you know, there's a lot of

256
00:16:36,320 --> 00:16:38,240
good things in there.
And one of the things he talks

257
00:16:38,240 --> 00:16:41,520
about is that as long as you're
blaming somebody else, you're

258
00:16:41,520 --> 00:16:43,720
not owning it.
And if you don't own it, you

259
00:16:43,720 --> 00:16:46,600
can't fix it, right?
And I'm paraphrasing in my own

260
00:16:46,600 --> 00:16:51,240
words here.
And so if being a victim is not

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00:16:51,240 --> 00:16:54,960
some place we want to stay,
right, obviously, you know, we

262
00:16:55,160 --> 00:16:59,760
could be a victim of crime, of
fraud, of whatever the case is,

263
00:17:00,360 --> 00:17:02,600
you shouldn't stay there for
long, right?

264
00:17:02,600 --> 00:17:06,119
Don't get me wrong, recuperate,
get your feet back under you.

265
00:17:06,119 --> 00:17:08,640
But then you want to take
possession of that and get back

266
00:17:08,640 --> 00:17:12,160
out there and, and put that
under foot so you can move

267
00:17:12,160 --> 00:17:14,400
forward.
Because this, if you keep

268
00:17:14,400 --> 00:17:18,640
holding on to that victim
mentality, it's a damnable

269
00:17:18,640 --> 00:17:20,720
principle.
You do not get to move on from

270
00:17:20,720 --> 00:17:23,119
that point until you take until
you own it.

271
00:17:23,680 --> 00:17:30,720
And likewise, if we are victims
of Adam's wrongdoing and we're

272
00:17:30,720 --> 00:17:34,560
perpetual victims of that,
there's no hope of, of, of

273
00:17:34,560 --> 00:17:36,200
progression.
You're done.

274
00:17:36,240 --> 00:17:39,480
You're going to stay right there
until you own your own stuff and

275
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and try to fix it.
Right.

276
00:17:42,320 --> 00:17:44,640
Yeah.
And I mean you, you think of of

277
00:17:44,640 --> 00:17:48,320
the the most innocent victims,
which would be children and

278
00:17:48,320 --> 00:17:56,360
victims of abuse as children.
And they are not responsible for

279
00:17:56,600 --> 00:18:00,160
the abuse that they suffer.
But if they ever want to be able

280
00:18:00,160 --> 00:18:03,760
to grow and move beyond that as
when they reach adulthood and

281
00:18:03,760 --> 00:18:07,640
you know that sort of thing,
it's not that they are blaming

282
00:18:07,640 --> 00:18:14,200
themselves, but you have to,
like you said, you have to not

283
00:18:14,200 --> 00:18:18,240
take responsibility because
that's the abuser is responsible

284
00:18:18,480 --> 00:18:23,400
with the abuse.
But we but but you have to take

285
00:18:23,400 --> 00:18:28,080
responsibility to OK, that
happened to me when I was a

286
00:18:28,080 --> 00:18:31,840
little kid.
I'm not responsible for that.

287
00:18:32,480 --> 00:18:35,640
I am responsible for how I live
the rest of my life though.

288
00:18:35,640 --> 00:18:39,840
And so it's not taking, it's not
taking responsibility for things

289
00:18:39,840 --> 00:18:44,160
that you are innocent of, but
it's responsibility in the sense

290
00:18:44,160 --> 00:18:46,640
of taking responsibility for
your response to it.

291
00:18:47,280 --> 00:18:51,160
Exactly, 100%.
And it's too easy to blame

292
00:18:51,200 --> 00:18:53,720
others, you know Why am I
behaving this way?

293
00:18:53,720 --> 00:18:55,200
Well, because someone did this
to me.

294
00:18:56,320 --> 00:19:00,720
Silly.
Yeah, 100% silly.

295
00:19:01,680 --> 00:19:05,720
So, and we've kind of alluded to
it, but I'll just recite it real

296
00:19:05,720 --> 00:19:07,560
quick.
So the second article of faith,

297
00:19:08,240 --> 00:19:11,960
which is number 2 in the list,
Joseph Smith was asked to kind

298
00:19:11,960 --> 00:19:15,920
of boil down to just the
essential like the essence of

299
00:19:15,920 --> 00:19:19,840
Mormon theology and doctrine.
And he came up with these

300
00:19:19,840 --> 00:19:22,080
thirteen articles of faith that
got published in the Wentworth

301
00:19:22,080 --> 00:19:26,240
letter.
And the number 2 bullet to that

302
00:19:26,680 --> 00:19:30,920
was we believe that men will be
punished for their own sins and

303
00:19:30,920 --> 00:19:35,200
not for Adam's transgression.
Sorry, I had a head

304
00:19:35,200 --> 00:19:36,880
notifications dinging.
Oh, you're good.

305
00:19:37,720 --> 00:19:40,240
But so, yeah, we believe that
men will be punished for their

306
00:19:40,240 --> 00:19:42,160
own sins and not for Adam's
transgression.

307
00:19:43,120 --> 00:19:48,560
It's, it's as basic as article
of faith #2 Right.

308
00:19:48,560 --> 00:19:54,720
And again, that's, that's a,
that's a scary proposition for

309
00:19:55,880 --> 00:19:59,160
anybody.
That's that that wants to be a

310
00:19:59,160 --> 00:20:03,240
victim, right.
Taking responsibility is not an

311
00:20:03,240 --> 00:20:06,240
easy path.
It's not a pleasant, you know,

312
00:20:06,600 --> 00:20:13,160
just daisies and roses all day
type of a, of a but go ahead.

313
00:20:13,360 --> 00:20:15,400
Sorry.
Oh, but, but it's but it's the

314
00:20:15,400 --> 00:20:19,640
only path if we want to actually
move beyond and progress.

315
00:20:21,280 --> 00:20:25,120
You know, the, the other thing
about that, that concept, it is

316
00:20:25,120 --> 00:20:31,240
a simple concept, but I don't
think we can grasp sometimes how

317
00:20:31,240 --> 00:20:34,400
revolutionary of an idea that
was when Joseph put it forward,

318
00:20:34,960 --> 00:20:38,000
right?
Because everybody, whether you

319
00:20:38,000 --> 00:20:41,680
were Catholic, whether you were
Protestant, heck, if you were

320
00:20:41,680 --> 00:20:46,960
Muslim, right, Jewish, these are
the common, these are the people

321
00:20:46,960 --> 00:20:50,200
that we can all agree kind of
gave it put the screws to us

322
00:20:50,200 --> 00:20:53,520
right.
And Joseph comes out and with a

323
00:20:53,520 --> 00:20:57,120
radical idea flips that whole
idea on its head.

324
00:20:58,040 --> 00:21:01,840
I don't think we can fully
appreciate how lonely of a

325
00:21:01,840 --> 00:21:04,800
position that must have been to
take in those early days,

326
00:21:05,120 --> 00:21:11,200
because it was going to set
people apart drastically in

327
00:21:11,200 --> 00:21:14,120
terms it was going to set the
Mormons apart drastically from

328
00:21:14,120 --> 00:21:19,120
from the rest of Christendom
and, and how they viewed, you

329
00:21:19,120 --> 00:21:22,240
know, cosmology and theosis and
all those other things.

330
00:21:24,120 --> 00:21:26,200
Right.
Yeah.

331
00:21:26,200 --> 00:21:28,880
I mean, it comes like you were
saying, it's kind of every

332
00:21:28,880 --> 00:21:35,520
tradition, every Judeo-christian
tradition has just really missed

333
00:21:35,520 --> 00:21:38,520
the mark, buried the lead, what
whatever euphemism you want to

334
00:21:38,520 --> 00:21:43,560
use on our on our first parents.
And it is a it is a tragedy.

335
00:21:44,040 --> 00:21:49,400
And except the Nephites and the
Lamanites, well, the Nephites

336
00:21:50,280 --> 00:21:54,360
who kept the record.
And that's significant because

337
00:21:54,680 --> 00:21:59,480
they they perhaps had the one
and only uncorrupted version of

338
00:21:59,480 --> 00:22:02,760
the Old Testament.
If you think about it, they

339
00:22:02,760 --> 00:22:04,240
brought the brass plates with
them.

340
00:22:04,840 --> 00:22:09,280
And in it, it basically says
that their version of the

341
00:22:09,280 --> 00:22:12,760
Scriptures is very different
from the version that we have

342
00:22:12,760 --> 00:22:15,480
today.
And this is just yet another

343
00:22:15,480 --> 00:22:18,880
example of that.
Right, absolutely.

344
00:22:19,880 --> 00:22:22,720
You know, and, and if you're
going to get to this, shut me

345
00:22:22,720 --> 00:22:24,480
down because I don't want to get
ahead.

346
00:22:25,040 --> 00:22:29,960
But the other place that I feel
like was revolutionary is the

347
00:22:30,760 --> 00:22:33,880
the the perception of Eve from
the Mormon standpoint.

348
00:22:36,240 --> 00:22:38,560
And again, if I'm moving too
fast, let me know and we can

349
00:22:38,560 --> 00:22:44,000
stop.
But when we look at how Joseph,

350
00:22:44,960 --> 00:22:47,480
well, let me phrase this, when
we look at the revelations that

351
00:22:47,480 --> 00:22:52,160
Joseph gets regarding God's
daughters, it's going to again,

352
00:22:52,160 --> 00:22:55,840
drastically change how
Christendom looks at women.

353
00:22:56,640 --> 00:23:00,960
Because ultimately we'd say it's
Adam's sin, but everybody

354
00:23:00,960 --> 00:23:05,000
understood it's the woman's
fault first, right?

355
00:23:05,360 --> 00:23:09,880
And This is why you get so much
misogyny in early Christendom, I

356
00:23:09,880 --> 00:23:15,520
believe, because she is is the
mother of our sorrows according

357
00:23:15,520 --> 00:23:17,960
to some of their theology,
right?

358
00:23:18,760 --> 00:23:24,200
And Joseph comes along and he
says, yeah, that's not the case,

359
00:23:24,680 --> 00:23:29,320
right?
Like whether you want to believe

360
00:23:29,720 --> 00:23:34,440
in Eve's divine station or not,
you better thank God for her

361
00:23:34,560 --> 00:23:39,880
because she was the one who
reasoned it out, right?

362
00:23:40,640 --> 00:23:43,600
Look, we don't know how long
Adam and Eve were in the garden,

363
00:23:44,360 --> 00:23:50,160
but I imagine it was for a space
of time where she had time to

364
00:23:50,160 --> 00:23:55,600
contemplate the the serpent's
offer, so to speak, right?

365
00:23:55,640 --> 00:23:58,160
Right.
And she had the ability to

366
00:23:58,160 --> 00:24:01,200
either refuse or reject that,
but nonetheless, she had to

367
00:24:01,200 --> 00:24:04,520
reason it out, right?
Why did God ask us to have

368
00:24:04,520 --> 00:24:06,720
children, but yet we're not
having children in here?

369
00:24:07,120 --> 00:24:10,600
And why did you know, why is
that happening?

370
00:24:10,600 --> 00:24:13,920
And can these two things be the,
you know, be kept at the same

371
00:24:13,920 --> 00:24:16,840
time?
And then if you extend that out,

372
00:24:18,400 --> 00:24:24,160
the, the revelation that Joseph
gains is going to forever change

373
00:24:24,320 --> 00:24:32,080
how men in Mormonism certainly
deal with the divine feminine

374
00:24:32,320 --> 00:24:35,040
and even the divine feminine
within our wives and our

375
00:24:35,040 --> 00:24:37,800
daughters.
Because now as men, we can't get

376
00:24:37,800 --> 00:24:42,080
to where we ultimately want to
go without our wives, right?

377
00:24:42,480 --> 00:24:48,400
And so Joseph, this, this stuff
that Joseph reveals, I think

378
00:24:48,400 --> 00:24:51,600
sometimes gets passed over
because we're used to it a

379
00:24:51,600 --> 00:24:53,720
little bit and we don't think
much of it.

380
00:24:54,160 --> 00:24:58,320
But I tell all this to kind of
drive home the fact that these

381
00:24:58,320 --> 00:25:04,280
are radical teachings and
radical departures from, and I'm

382
00:25:04,280 --> 00:25:07,000
going to use air quotes here,
traditional Christianity.

383
00:25:07,440 --> 00:25:12,200
And it it turns it on its head
and it puts it right.

384
00:25:13,040 --> 00:25:15,720
And I think that cannot be
overstated enough.

385
00:25:15,720 --> 00:25:21,960
A. 100% it's a it.
It's a sectarian sectarianism.

386
00:25:22,280 --> 00:25:27,040
I hate to call it traditional
Christianity because you don't

387
00:25:27,040 --> 00:25:31,560
really see these until like the
second or third century right of

388
00:25:31,560 --> 00:25:34,240
early of the early days.
And then it becomes kind of

389
00:25:34,240 --> 00:25:38,160
codified or, you know, made
official in the creeds that come

390
00:25:39,000 --> 00:25:43,440
over the next several 100 years.
So, but but yeah, it, it is,

391
00:25:44,000 --> 00:25:47,440
it's, it's pervasive.
It's throughout basically all

392
00:25:47,440 --> 00:25:51,240
Christian Judeo-christian
traditions and except the

393
00:25:51,240 --> 00:25:54,480
Nephites, which is to me very,
very significant.

394
00:25:56,160 --> 00:25:59,680
Now the other problem is, and
you may have noticed this in

395
00:25:59,680 --> 00:26:03,800
some of your dealings with with
kind of, you know, I hate to

396
00:26:03,800 --> 00:26:07,880
single out anyone to Christian
domination, but but you know,

397
00:26:07,880 --> 00:26:14,440
like people who sectarians, I
guess, for lack of a better

398
00:26:14,440 --> 00:26:16,400
word.
We'll just call it what it is.

399
00:26:16,400 --> 00:26:19,920
You're fine.
But it's, you know, evangelicals

400
00:26:19,920 --> 00:26:24,520
especially like the Baptist's
and, and this sort of it becomes

401
00:26:24,520 --> 00:26:31,240
a superiority complex, right?
Have you been saved as if it's a

402
00:26:31,240 --> 00:26:35,280
gotcha, right.
And, and, you know, as a

403
00:26:35,280 --> 00:26:38,360
missionary, I people would ask
me, have you been saved?

404
00:26:38,880 --> 00:26:43,320
And, and I would sometimes just
kind of indulge a little bit and

405
00:26:43,320 --> 00:26:45,640
be like, yeah, I have been
saved.

406
00:26:45,840 --> 00:26:47,400
That's not what they mean
though, right?

407
00:26:49,000 --> 00:26:52,040
They, they, they, there's so
much baggage that they

408
00:26:52,200 --> 00:26:55,520
implicitly include with that
type of a question.

409
00:26:56,200 --> 00:27:00,760
One of which is do you, do you,
have you stopped repenting?

410
00:27:01,000 --> 00:27:03,960
I, I've, I've actually had
conversations where people kind

411
00:27:03,960 --> 00:27:07,600
of was like, you cannot do any
work.

412
00:27:07,960 --> 00:27:14,320
If you start doing any work
whatsoever, then then you aren't

413
00:27:14,320 --> 00:27:16,760
saved 'cause you're saved by
grace.

414
00:27:17,040 --> 00:27:23,800
And it's, it's just silly, but,
but nevertheless that I have

415
00:27:24,080 --> 00:27:30,560
heard that argument and, and
basically other people, I, I, I

416
00:27:30,560 --> 00:27:33,160
forget this has been going back
20 years when I was a missionary

417
00:27:33,160 --> 00:27:36,200
in Detroit.
But some, some people actually,

418
00:27:36,200 --> 00:27:39,680
we, we were able to get deep
enough into this topic of

419
00:27:39,680 --> 00:27:46,760
discussion that they were like,
well, we don't count repentance

420
00:27:46,760 --> 00:27:50,240
as a work.
And they were actually able to

421
00:27:50,240 --> 00:27:54,840
acknowledge that that because,
because I kind of had them,

422
00:27:54,840 --> 00:27:57,200
right.
I'm like, hey, if you don't

423
00:27:57,200 --> 00:28:01,200
believe in repentance, how do
you reconcile that with all

424
00:28:01,200 --> 00:28:06,800
these scriptures that talk about
you got to repent and, and yeah,

425
00:28:06,800 --> 00:28:08,680
and I'm like, is repentance not
a work?

426
00:28:09,160 --> 00:28:18,040
And they're like, no.
So, but anyway, and I don't, I'm

427
00:28:18,040 --> 00:28:23,160
not trying to like beat up on,
on any buddy tradition or, or

428
00:28:23,160 --> 00:28:27,440
belief system, but to me it is,
it's not logical, it's not

429
00:28:27,440 --> 00:28:33,120
scriptural, it's not rational
to, to cling to traditions of

430
00:28:33,120 --> 00:28:37,160
those types of things when the
scriptures just basically plain

431
00:28:37,160 --> 00:28:41,840
as day, say the opposite, that
we are to continue to have

432
00:28:41,840 --> 00:28:43,680
faith.
We are to continue to repent

433
00:28:43,680 --> 00:28:50,200
and, and, and it's not like that
earns us forgiveness, but it's

434
00:28:50,280 --> 00:28:54,080
it's real hard to make an
argument that that's not a, a

435
00:28:54,080 --> 00:28:58,520
work, you know, and, and to
pretend that you can't do work

436
00:28:58,520 --> 00:29:00,000
otherwise you're not saved by
grace.

437
00:29:00,560 --> 00:29:02,720
Sure, sure.
And it's, it's interesting,

438
00:29:02,720 --> 00:29:08,000
right, because it is selective
in its application, because in

439
00:29:08,000 --> 00:29:12,280
the same New Testament that that
the idea of saved by Grace is.

440
00:29:12,280 --> 00:29:15,600
And look, before I go on, you,
you mentioned not wanting to

441
00:29:15,600 --> 00:29:18,840
beat up on, on our evangelical
brothers and sisters.

442
00:29:18,840 --> 00:29:21,760
And I can appreciate that.
But for this conversation, we

443
00:29:21,760 --> 00:29:23,800
have to compare and contrast,
right?

444
00:29:24,640 --> 00:29:26,320
And, and that's what we're doing
here.

445
00:29:26,320 --> 00:29:29,720
It's not a spirit of accusation.
It's we're just comparing and

446
00:29:29,720 --> 00:29:33,640
contrasting.
But what I was going to say is

447
00:29:34,800 --> 00:29:38,080
there's inconsistency even there
because the same old, the same

448
00:29:38,080 --> 00:29:41,720
New Testament that they used to
get saved by grace is also the

449
00:29:41,720 --> 00:29:45,240
very same New Testament where
Paul says faith without works is

450
00:29:45,240 --> 00:29:49,360
dead.
And so it obviously.

451
00:29:49,440 --> 00:29:51,680
James.
That's I think that's a James.

452
00:29:52,600 --> 00:29:53,760
Thank you.
Thank you.

453
00:29:53,760 --> 00:29:58,520
I, I misspoke, but regardless,
it's still right there, right?

454
00:29:58,520 --> 00:30:03,080
And and so there's there's some
selective application that I

455
00:30:03,080 --> 00:30:04,880
think goes on a little bit with
that.

456
00:30:06,320 --> 00:30:10,240
And you know, going back, so to
talk about the superiority

457
00:30:10,240 --> 00:30:17,040
complex in these pitfalls of
pride, it, it just basically it,

458
00:30:17,080 --> 00:30:20,720
it creates A dichotomy where
you're either saved or you're

459
00:30:20,720 --> 00:30:23,600
not saved.
And because I actually do

460
00:30:23,600 --> 00:30:28,160
believe that to be saved in the
sense that, you know, Jesus,

461
00:30:28,160 --> 00:30:30,720
I've accepted Jesus as my savior
like that.

462
00:30:30,760 --> 00:30:36,240
That is something that you can
do and, and it doesn't, it, it's

463
00:30:36,240 --> 00:30:41,920
not, it's not going to require
extra work or, you know, it's,

464
00:30:41,920 --> 00:30:46,720
it's, it's an acknowledgement
that it's not by my power, by,

465
00:30:46,760 --> 00:30:48,480
you know, I'm not earning any of
this.

466
00:30:48,480 --> 00:30:52,160
I don't deserve salvation.
Nevertheless, I believe in a

467
00:30:52,160 --> 00:30:56,840
Jesus who can't save me and, and
who and who will save me.

468
00:30:57,200 --> 00:31:02,320
And so there's that.
But if you think that I haven't

469
00:31:02,320 --> 00:31:06,000
been saved, it that's kind of
leads to predestination, kind of

470
00:31:06,000 --> 00:31:11,080
the Calvinistic types of, of,
you know, oh, I can't sin, I

471
00:31:11,080 --> 00:31:13,080
can't fall because I've been
saved.

472
00:31:13,440 --> 00:31:20,040
And it, it creates a false sense
of, of, you know, I hate

473
00:31:20,800 --> 00:31:24,280
superiority, pride.
I it's, it's hard to necessarily

474
00:31:24,280 --> 00:31:27,600
like, put us an exact term to
it, but you know what I mean?

475
00:31:28,760 --> 00:31:31,320
Absolutely.
You feel like you're above,

476
00:31:31,360 --> 00:31:36,720
you're feel like you're above
and you're incapable of of

477
00:31:36,720 --> 00:31:39,240
falling.
Yeah, yeah.

478
00:31:39,240 --> 00:31:42,800
And and the fruits to that can't
be good, right?

479
00:31:43,520 --> 00:31:45,680
It's a for one thing, it's very
damning.

480
00:31:45,840 --> 00:31:49,440
You cannot progress if you think
you have already arrived.

481
00:31:49,640 --> 00:31:56,360
You know, it's also completely
false, like you can't that's

482
00:31:56,360 --> 00:31:59,560
like you're staring at a mirror
and you know you're a

483
00:31:59,560 --> 00:32:02,360
narcissist, like you can't see
any of your flaws.

484
00:32:02,360 --> 00:32:06,640
You only think you're beautiful.
It's it's a very damning in the

485
00:32:06,640 --> 00:32:11,880
sense that it limits your
ability to progress and but then

486
00:32:11,880 --> 00:32:16,600
it gets really toxic and
unhealthy when you start

487
00:32:16,840 --> 00:32:19,560
comparing yourself with others.
Yes.

488
00:32:20,680 --> 00:32:24,600
Which again, is a pride, is a,
is an inherently comparative

489
00:32:24,600 --> 00:32:29,520
and, you know, type of an
exercise and you know, you think

490
00:32:29,520 --> 00:32:30,880
you're better than somebody
else.

491
00:32:31,280 --> 00:32:34,440
That's a dangerous place to be.
Sure it is.

492
00:32:34,440 --> 00:32:37,080
Yep.
Once you sit a station above

493
00:32:37,080 --> 00:32:39,600
somebody else in such a manner
as that, right?

494
00:32:40,720 --> 00:32:48,720
Just having access to God or the
ability to be forgiven is, is,

495
00:32:48,720 --> 00:32:52,760
is a rough place to be.
And it's a place that often ends

496
00:32:53,320 --> 00:33:01,040
with those having the perceived,
oh, the, the perceived seat, if

497
00:33:01,040 --> 00:33:04,400
you will, there, or, or the
perceived station being able to

498
00:33:04,400 --> 00:33:08,400
really do some damage to those
who have not, right, who are

499
00:33:08,400 --> 00:33:12,000
honest and like I, I don't know
if I am or not, They can do

500
00:33:12,000 --> 00:33:16,800
damage there.
Totally cool.

501
00:33:16,800 --> 00:33:26,320
So Next up is the the let's just
talk about.

502
00:33:26,920 --> 00:33:31,840
So I think that it's safe to say
that LDS, Mormons, just

503
00:33:32,880 --> 00:33:39,000
everybody, everybody that's in
the Brighamite branch, it has

504
00:33:39,720 --> 00:33:45,080
acknowledged that Eve is not the
villainous that that we we

505
00:33:45,080 --> 00:33:49,240
should love our mother.
You know, Eve, they don't accept

506
00:33:49,240 --> 00:33:53,840
her as being Heavenly mother,
but you know, they at least have

507
00:33:53,840 --> 00:34:00,040
respect for her and and
acknowledge her place is not one

508
00:34:00,040 --> 00:34:04,200
that we should, you know, hate
or, or be angry with, but just

509
00:34:04,200 --> 00:34:06,280
to be grateful for her
sacrifice.

510
00:34:07,400 --> 00:34:10,080
Because you forget she actually
made a lot of sacrifices by

511
00:34:10,080 --> 00:34:12,239
taking the fruit.
She had to leave the garden.

512
00:34:12,600 --> 00:34:15,920
Like that's, that would suck if
I mean, we can't even

513
00:34:15,960 --> 00:34:18,480
comprehend.
But if if you're in paradise and

514
00:34:18,480 --> 00:34:20,880
now you're kicked out, that's a
big deal.

515
00:34:21,159 --> 00:34:24,080
And why did she do it?
Well, second Nephi chapter 2.

516
00:34:24,239 --> 00:34:26,360
In fact, maybe it's worth
pulling up just a couple of

517
00:34:26,360 --> 00:34:31,000
verses here.
So second Nephi chapter 2 is

518
00:34:31,639 --> 00:34:37,560
Lehi Father Lehi instructing his
sons and and he just gives some

519
00:34:37,560 --> 00:34:41,600
really insightful like lines of
reasoning.

520
00:34:41,600 --> 00:34:45,080
Really.
The days of the children of men,

521
00:34:45,080 --> 00:34:47,600
I'm starting in verse 21.
The days of the children of men

522
00:34:47,600 --> 00:34:49,679
were prolonged according to the
will of God that they might

523
00:34:49,679 --> 00:34:52,960
repent while in the flesh.
Wherefore their state became a

524
00:34:52,960 --> 00:34:55,440
state of probation and their
time was lengthened according to

525
00:34:55,440 --> 00:34:57,920
the commandments which the Lord
God gave unto the children of

526
00:34:57,920 --> 00:34:59,800
men.
For He gave commandment that all

527
00:34:59,800 --> 00:35:01,960
men must repent.
For He showed unto all men that

528
00:35:01,960 --> 00:35:04,800
they were lost because of the
transgression of their parents.

529
00:35:05,560 --> 00:35:08,280
And now behold, if Adam had not
transgressed, he would not have

530
00:35:08,280 --> 00:35:10,920
fallen, but he would have
remained in the Garden of Eden.

531
00:35:11,240 --> 00:35:13,560
And all things which were
created must have remained in

532
00:35:13,560 --> 00:35:16,040
the same state in which they
were after they were created.

533
00:35:16,360 --> 00:35:18,880
And they must have remained
forever and had no end.

534
00:35:19,920 --> 00:35:21,600
And they would have had no
children.

535
00:35:21,600 --> 00:35:23,880
Wherefore they would have
remained in a state of

536
00:35:23,880 --> 00:35:27,560
innocence, having no joy.
For they knew no misery, doing

537
00:35:27,560 --> 00:35:30,400
no good, for they knew no sin.
But behold, all things have been

538
00:35:30,400 --> 00:35:32,600
done in the wisdom of Him who
knoweth all things.

539
00:35:32,960 --> 00:35:35,960
Adam fell that men might be, and
men are that they might have

540
00:35:35,960 --> 00:35:38,280
joy.
And the Messiah cometh in the

541
00:35:38,280 --> 00:35:40,920
fullness of time that he may
redeem the children of men from

542
00:35:40,920 --> 00:35:42,920
the fall.
And because they are redeemed

543
00:35:42,920 --> 00:35:46,040
from the fall, they have become
free forever, knowing good from

544
00:35:46,040 --> 00:35:49,840
evil, to act for themselves and
not to be acted upon, save it be

545
00:35:49,840 --> 00:35:52,720
by the punishment of the law at
that great and last day

546
00:35:52,720 --> 00:35:54,720
according to the commandments
which God has given.

547
00:35:55,320 --> 00:35:56,840
Wherefore men are free according
to flood man.

548
00:35:56,840 --> 00:36:00,320
It's hard to stop.
It's Yeah, I'll, I'll just read

549
00:36:00,320 --> 00:36:03,800
one last one.
Wherefore men are free according

550
00:36:03,800 --> 00:36:07,400
to the flesh, and all things are
given them which are expedient

551
00:36:07,400 --> 00:36:09,160
unto man.
And they are free to choose

552
00:36:09,160 --> 00:36:12,200
liberty and eternal life through
the great mediator of all men,

553
00:36:12,520 --> 00:36:15,560
or to choose captivity and death
according to the captivity and

554
00:36:15,560 --> 00:36:17,600
power of the devil.
For he seeketh that all men

555
00:36:17,600 --> 00:36:19,280
might be miserable like unto
himself.

556
00:36:19,960 --> 00:36:24,800
And then he's like encourages
the his children, his brethren

557
00:36:24,800 --> 00:36:29,880
and us, the readers coming along
century miscellanea a couple

558
00:36:29,880 --> 00:36:33,320
millennia later.
And he's like pleading with us

559
00:36:33,320 --> 00:36:37,280
to choose Christ to choose
liberty and not misery and

560
00:36:37,280 --> 00:36:40,640
captivity.
And and this is a powerful

561
00:36:43,560 --> 00:36:50,040
treatise that on on agency and
the importance of free will.

562
00:36:51,280 --> 00:36:56,040
We, we, we, rightly so.
We put a lot of emphasis and

563
00:36:56,040 --> 00:36:59,560
attention on the atonement
within the Restoration, as we

564
00:36:59,560 --> 00:37:04,200
should, because without the
Atonement the plan would not

565
00:37:04,200 --> 00:37:05,720
work.
Right.

566
00:37:06,800 --> 00:37:12,920
Nevertheless, without the fall,
the atonement would have been

567
00:37:12,920 --> 00:37:15,200
worthless because there would be
nobody to save.

568
00:37:16,400 --> 00:37:18,200
Right.
So.

569
00:37:18,200 --> 00:37:22,240
So really, as important as the
atonement is, the fall is at

570
00:37:22,240 --> 00:37:29,720
least equally so.
Important 100% you're Look, I

571
00:37:29,720 --> 00:37:32,280
know for a fact you're a great
piano player.

572
00:37:35,680 --> 00:37:39,720
When you were learning to play
piano, what did you learn the

573
00:37:39,720 --> 00:37:41,760
most from?
The notes you got right or the

574
00:37:41,760 --> 00:37:45,840
notes you got wrong?
I learned the most from my

575
00:37:45,840 --> 00:37:49,280
teacher.
But yeah, you you have to make

576
00:37:49,680 --> 00:37:55,360
it's, it is never realistic to
think I'd never, I'm never going

577
00:37:55,360 --> 00:37:57,640
to make a mistake and I'm going
to learn a piece.

578
00:37:57,800 --> 00:38:02,840
That's just not how it works.
And so, yeah, you have to learn

579
00:38:02,840 --> 00:38:06,040
by trial and error.
And as the as the garden story

580
00:38:06,040 --> 00:38:12,080
teaches, you know, if you had
never known what sorrow was, how

581
00:38:12,080 --> 00:38:13,120
could you?
How could you?

582
00:38:13,120 --> 00:38:15,640
Even the word joy would be
meaningless.

583
00:38:16,200 --> 00:38:19,200
Yes, yes.
And not only would the words be

584
00:38:19,200 --> 00:38:22,880
meaningless to you, but you
would not have the opportunity

585
00:38:22,880 --> 00:38:25,720
to choose right from wrong.
Yes.

586
00:38:26,160 --> 00:38:31,840
And we learn our most valuable
lessons from two places.

587
00:38:31,840 --> 00:38:37,720
Trial or we chose wrong, right?
I've told the story a couple

588
00:38:37,720 --> 00:38:40,720
different times, but I think
it's worth bearing out And and I

589
00:38:40,720 --> 00:38:46,680
tell the story to reflect on how
ingenious God's plan was here

590
00:38:46,680 --> 00:38:52,480
for us, right, knowing who we
are, knowing that we would need

591
00:38:52,480 --> 00:38:55,320
to make mistakes, right?
We should never wanting we go

592
00:38:55,320 --> 00:39:00,960
out and make mistakes, but we
need to make mistakes playing,

593
00:39:01,280 --> 00:39:05,120
playing some semi pro ball up in
a league up in the the Pacific

594
00:39:05,120 --> 00:39:10,880
Northwest.
And we just had a coach who just

595
00:39:10,880 --> 00:39:14,280
was never happy.
Darn good coach, but never

596
00:39:14,280 --> 00:39:17,760
happy.
And I remember we were, we were

597
00:39:17,760 --> 00:39:19,520
just a really good team that
year.

598
00:39:19,520 --> 00:39:25,600
We'd feel that good guys, we had
a lot of talent and we were, we

599
00:39:25,600 --> 00:39:29,680
kept squeaking out wins, right,
because we knew we could turn it

600
00:39:29,680 --> 00:39:32,000
on and we could always come
back, right.

601
00:39:32,000 --> 00:39:36,880
So it was nothing for us to be
down 1417, sometimes 21 points

602
00:39:36,880 --> 00:39:40,120
at halftime, come back and win
by three points or a touchdown

603
00:39:40,120 --> 00:39:44,240
or whatever.
We finally got caught, right?

604
00:39:44,240 --> 00:39:47,160
We did that.
We let the other team hang

605
00:39:47,160 --> 00:39:49,280
around.
We lost the game.

606
00:39:50,120 --> 00:39:55,400
And I remember I was expecting
the worst rear chewing ever when

607
00:39:55,400 --> 00:39:57,360
that coach came in.
I really was.

608
00:39:58,320 --> 00:40:01,280
But to my surprise, because he
chew on us when we were beating

609
00:40:01,280 --> 00:40:03,800
him 40 to nothing, right?
I mean, like he was just that

610
00:40:03,800 --> 00:40:06,680
kind of guy.
But he came in and he he was

611
00:40:06,680 --> 00:40:09,520
quiet and he was fairly
reserved.

612
00:40:09,520 --> 00:40:12,920
He's like, I know this stings.
Let's come back, you know,

613
00:40:12,920 --> 00:40:16,400
Monday evening and let's start
talking about what we can do

614
00:40:16,400 --> 00:40:19,160
different.
And we came back that that

615
00:40:19,160 --> 00:40:22,040
Monday evening and we're going
to review the game film and and

616
00:40:22,040 --> 00:40:26,200
look, reviewing game film when
you lose sucks because your

617
00:40:26,200 --> 00:40:29,760
stuff is on display for
everybody, right?

618
00:40:29,760 --> 00:40:31,200
Like everybody's going to see
it.

619
00:40:31,520 --> 00:40:34,560
And it kind of has to be that
way because you can't really

620
00:40:34,560 --> 00:40:38,160
tell like 52 guys or whatever.
Or in our case it was 30.

621
00:40:38,160 --> 00:40:41,760
Some guys the same thing over
and over again privately.

622
00:40:41,760 --> 00:40:44,040
You this has to be done in
public, right?

623
00:40:44,320 --> 00:40:47,640
So every misstep you had, it's
going to show and you're going

624
00:40:47,640 --> 00:40:50,720
to be called out.
So that happens.

625
00:40:50,720 --> 00:40:54,960
But before that happens, he
said, I'm really glad we lost

626
00:40:54,960 --> 00:41:00,120
this game.
And I was like, well, no, you

627
00:41:00,120 --> 00:41:04,200
know, go # sand, right?
I was like, I hate losing, but

628
00:41:04,440 --> 00:41:07,600
he was right.
We absolutely needed that

629
00:41:08,000 --> 00:41:11,400
because we had just enough
talent to skate by, but we

630
00:41:11,400 --> 00:41:13,480
weren't putting in enough work
right.

631
00:41:14,440 --> 00:41:19,680
And because we were humbled, we
paid extra close attention to

632
00:41:19,680 --> 00:41:20,720
the game.
Phil Right.

633
00:41:21,080 --> 00:41:23,520
And we went on, didn't didn't
lose another game the rest of

634
00:41:23,520 --> 00:41:26,600
the year.
My point is is that life is much

635
00:41:26,600 --> 00:41:29,560
that way.
Your while certainly you should

636
00:41:29,560 --> 00:41:34,320
never want to make a mistake,
you should never not act because

637
00:41:34,480 --> 00:41:36,080
you're afraid of making a
mistake.

638
00:41:36,280 --> 00:41:38,880
It's through those mistakes that
we are going to learn.

639
00:41:39,320 --> 00:41:43,360
And our Father understood and
recognized that and provided a

640
00:41:43,360 --> 00:41:46,840
way whereby we can make our
mistakes, take our lumps, get

641
00:41:46,840 --> 00:41:50,320
back up, use the atonement, dust
ourselves off and continue

642
00:41:50,320 --> 00:41:54,760
forward.
And again, that was never

643
00:41:54,760 --> 00:41:59,000
brought forward until until the
restoration was was put into

644
00:41:59,000 --> 00:42:01,000
place.
You talked about their

645
00:42:01,000 --> 00:42:02,480
sacrifice.
And again, if I'm moving

646
00:42:02,480 --> 00:42:05,080
forward, you need to you need to
stop me here, Taylor.

647
00:42:06,600 --> 00:42:11,320
But if, if you're like the bulk
of fundamentalists who believe

648
00:42:11,320 --> 00:42:16,280
in the Adam God doctrine,
there's a special sacrifice that

649
00:42:16,280 --> 00:42:19,040
happens there, right?
And, and, and for anyone who

650
00:42:19,040 --> 00:42:22,040
doesn't know, the Adam God
doctrine, without getting in the

651
00:42:22,040 --> 00:42:26,040
weeds here too much, postulates
that Adam is both the father of

652
00:42:26,040 --> 00:42:29,080
our spirits as well as the
father of our bodies, and that

653
00:42:29,080 --> 00:42:33,320
he was already an exalted man
with Eve when he came to this

654
00:42:33,320 --> 00:42:39,760
earth.
And there is because of the

655
00:42:39,760 --> 00:42:42,760
endowment, because of other
scriptures that we have, we know

656
00:42:42,760 --> 00:42:47,760
that there is a moment at which
Eve has a recollection, right,

657
00:42:47,760 --> 00:42:52,160
where she understands, Oh, I
lived someplace else before I

658
00:42:52,160 --> 00:42:56,040
lived here, right?
And I imagine that kept coming

659
00:42:56,040 --> 00:43:00,160
back more and more.
And so as they start to endure

660
00:43:00,160 --> 00:43:05,280
mortality again, as they start
feeling the pain of mortality

661
00:43:05,280 --> 00:43:10,560
again, they can now compare and
contrast of where they've been

662
00:43:11,120 --> 00:43:15,200
versus where they are now.
And why did they do it, Taylor?

663
00:43:15,840 --> 00:43:18,760
They did it because they loved
their children.

664
00:43:19,480 --> 00:43:23,760
They were willing to go through
it all again.

665
00:43:24,480 --> 00:43:31,200
The scent pains, the sorrows,
the aches and pains of of just

666
00:43:31,200 --> 00:43:35,280
what it takes to be alive.
I had a good friend who who had

667
00:43:35,280 --> 00:43:39,120
a near death experience once and
most look, I'm going to be

668
00:43:39,120 --> 00:43:42,240
honest with you.
Most near death experiences I do

669
00:43:42,240 --> 00:43:44,320
raise a little bit of an eyebrow
at sometimes.

670
00:43:45,080 --> 00:43:47,720
This one hit different right as
he talked.

671
00:43:47,720 --> 00:43:49,120
It definitely had the spirit
with him.

672
00:43:50,000 --> 00:43:52,440
And he talked about his
experience and he talked about

673
00:43:52,440 --> 00:43:59,040
coming back into his body, and
he said my body hurts all the

674
00:43:59,040 --> 00:44:02,360
time.
And I was like, well, yeah, we

675
00:44:02,360 --> 00:44:04,560
all got aches and pains.
He's like, you don't understand.

676
00:44:04,560 --> 00:44:11,560
He's like, I know what it's like
now to be conscience without a

677
00:44:11,560 --> 00:44:16,080
fallen body, and it hurts all
the time.

678
00:44:16,080 --> 00:44:19,920
And you don't know any different
because you've come up in

679
00:44:19,920 --> 00:44:21,200
mortality.
And when you have the

680
00:44:21,200 --> 00:44:25,880
opportunity to compare and
contrast, he's like, it's not

681
00:44:25,880 --> 00:44:27,720
like I'm saying I want to go
back right now.

682
00:44:28,040 --> 00:44:30,400
But what I am saying is that
there is a difference, right?

683
00:44:30,760 --> 00:44:35,760
And so now you take that that
Adam and Eve did with the Adam

684
00:44:35,760 --> 00:44:38,160
God doctrine being in place
there, that they are the the

685
00:44:38,160 --> 00:44:40,200
father and mother of our spirits
and bodies.

686
00:44:40,760 --> 00:44:44,640
They obviously have an awakening
to where they have come from.

687
00:44:45,920 --> 00:44:52,480
They want some sacrifice, right?
That is love unfeigned, right?

688
00:44:52,520 --> 00:44:57,680
Love for your children so much
that you're like, we got to go

689
00:44:57,680 --> 00:45:00,360
through hell again, so be it,
here we go.

690
00:45:01,080 --> 00:45:05,960
And off they do go.
The sacrifice that they make is

691
00:45:05,960 --> 00:45:09,440
so important, and I think
perfectly with what you were

692
00:45:09,440 --> 00:45:13,960
saying, that the fall is just as
important as the Atonement is

693
00:45:14,280 --> 00:45:20,920
and requires a similar sacrifice
to get their children where they

694
00:45:20,920 --> 00:45:24,240
want to be.
Right.

695
00:45:24,480 --> 00:45:28,080
And I loved how you just
basically really summarized it

696
00:45:28,400 --> 00:45:31,160
and you know, in terms that a
child could understand.

697
00:45:31,160 --> 00:45:33,760
What is the Adam God theology?
What are you talking about when

698
00:45:33,760 --> 00:45:36,360
you say the Adam God doctrine or
Adam God theory?

699
00:45:37,760 --> 00:45:42,400
And, you know, as, as I have a
lot of opportunity with all my

700
00:45:42,400 --> 00:45:46,160
kids to explain those types of
things and have conversations.

701
00:45:47,200 --> 00:45:51,400
And as we've as we've discussed
it, that's basically all it is,

702
00:45:51,400 --> 00:45:57,800
is it's, you know, there was a
daddy who had some kids and he

703
00:45:57,800 --> 00:46:03,280
loved them and he wanted to help
them reach their full potential.

704
00:46:04,520 --> 00:46:09,480
And there was only one way he
could do that, and that was by

705
00:46:10,080 --> 00:46:14,560
creating the earth.
And, you know, do you think a

706
00:46:14,560 --> 00:46:18,720
good daddy would send somebody
else to raise his family, have

707
00:46:18,720 --> 00:46:20,920
his kids?
No.

708
00:46:21,520 --> 00:46:24,840
Like, this is something an
elementary school student just

709
00:46:24,840 --> 00:46:29,640
naturally understands.
Like, it it doesn't take a

710
00:46:29,640 --> 00:46:34,480
degree in theology to really get
the the why on these.

711
00:46:36,560 --> 00:46:41,440
But it it's it's just beautiful.
Like, yeah, as a dad, why would

712
00:46:41,440 --> 00:46:46,320
I ever outsource my children's
safety or instruction or

713
00:46:46,560 --> 00:46:51,440
whatever to somebody else?
Like why would I do that?

714
00:46:52,400 --> 00:46:56,600
Right, you, you might, you
might, you know, take mom on a

715
00:46:56,600 --> 00:47:00,320
date and leave the oldest kid in
charge for a hot minute, right?

716
00:47:00,320 --> 00:47:03,400
But you're not.
You're not farming that out long

717
00:47:03,400 --> 00:47:08,320
term to anybody else.
No, exactly.

718
00:47:08,920 --> 00:47:13,720
And so, so, yeah, now we've kind
of defined the term a little

719
00:47:13,720 --> 00:47:17,360
bit, you know, explained the
theology in its, in its purest

720
00:47:17,360 --> 00:47:19,640
simple, just boiled down to this
essence.

721
00:47:20,800 --> 00:47:25,840
And we've kind of explored kind
of, or at least introduced some

722
00:47:25,840 --> 00:47:29,920
very bold theological ideas and
claims, which is that like this

723
00:47:29,920 --> 00:47:33,120
is more important or equally as
important as the atonement.

724
00:47:35,200 --> 00:47:43,480
It let's let's talk about kind
of the the typical response and

725
00:47:43,480 --> 00:47:46,600
we can start with sectarian
Christianity, the anti Mormons,

726
00:47:46,640 --> 00:47:50,720
you know who, who just love this
doctrine because the church

727
00:47:51,440 --> 00:47:53,040
pretends that it was never
taught.

728
00:47:53,400 --> 00:47:56,880
And so they got they got gotchas
all over the place, right?

729
00:47:56,880 --> 00:48:01,480
It's just a landmine.
They but they, they love, they

730
00:48:01,480 --> 00:48:04,280
also love to hate it
passionately.

731
00:48:04,320 --> 00:48:10,240
They hate this doctrine and you
know, nothing will evoke an anti

732
00:48:10,240 --> 00:48:16,040
Mormon Christians, you know,
throwing around the the B word

733
00:48:16,040 --> 00:48:18,720
blasphemy like Adam God
theology.

734
00:48:19,640 --> 00:48:27,280
And you know why?
Let's let's just think about why

735
00:48:27,280 --> 00:48:32,240
is that such a common response
reaction to to this theology?

736
00:48:34,080 --> 00:48:35,880
I've got a theory, just a
theory.

737
00:48:38,160 --> 00:48:44,640
If if we look at the God of the
creeds, he is a body without

738
00:48:44,640 --> 00:48:48,760
parts and passions.
He is not relatable to us,

739
00:48:48,920 --> 00:48:50,600
right?
And and they tell you as much.

740
00:48:51,160 --> 00:48:53,680
You can't comprehend him.
Don't do that.

741
00:48:55,600 --> 00:48:59,520
If all of a sudden man can be
raised up to understand God,

742
00:49:01,920 --> 00:49:05,800
well, now all of a sudden God
has proximity.

743
00:49:08,000 --> 00:49:12,000
OK, now all of a sudden that
relationship that you talk

744
00:49:12,000 --> 00:49:16,520
about, that you strive for, oh,
that gets way more applicable.

745
00:49:17,760 --> 00:49:24,240
OK, next, if Adam and Eve aren't
the bad guys, if they're not the

746
00:49:24,240 --> 00:49:28,680
villains of the story, well, now
you got to wrestle with your own

747
00:49:28,680 --> 00:49:33,080
crap.
That is uncomfortable, right?

748
00:49:33,840 --> 00:49:37,960
Look, there's that old saying
that the truth will set you

749
00:49:37,960 --> 00:49:42,120
free.
That's a true statement, but we

750
00:49:42,120 --> 00:49:46,600
don't preface it first or give
it its qualifier at the end.

751
00:49:47,160 --> 00:49:50,000
The truth will set you free, but
often times it might make you a

752
00:49:50,000 --> 00:49:56,680
little miserable. 1st And when
you start to approach God, you

753
00:49:56,680 --> 00:49:59,320
have to understand those are
things to be wrestled with

754
00:49:59,320 --> 00:50:07,800
things to be the struggle there
to get your mind to raise up to

755
00:50:07,800 --> 00:50:10,640
that point is not a natural
thing for man to do.

756
00:50:11,360 --> 00:50:15,560
It takes discipline, it takes
hard work and it takes

757
00:50:15,760 --> 00:50:19,400
repetition to get there.
And I think that for all those

758
00:50:19,400 --> 00:50:23,400
reasons, it makes God, it gives
God proximity.

759
00:50:23,680 --> 00:50:25,760
He's no longer without parts and
passions.

760
00:50:26,320 --> 00:50:30,520
It makes us be in charge of our
own crap, right.

761
00:50:30,840 --> 00:50:34,640
If if we're punished for our
sins and not atoms now we don't

762
00:50:34,640 --> 00:50:38,520
get the benefit of going well,
OK, I looked at that woman a

763
00:50:38,520 --> 00:50:41,480
little too long, but it's kind
of Adam's fault, right?

764
00:50:41,480 --> 00:50:45,880
I mean, that's what happened.
You can't, you can't just blame

765
00:50:45,880 --> 00:50:47,840
him.
And then you've got to do the

766
00:50:47,840 --> 00:50:51,520
work to elevate your own mind
and your own understanding up to

767
00:50:51,520 --> 00:50:56,240
him, unless you really want that
relationship with, with deity.

768
00:50:57,080 --> 00:51:00,560
That's, that's a big ask.
So it's just my opinions.

769
00:51:01,160 --> 00:51:04,400
Yeah, you can't scapegoat and
there's no place to hide any

770
00:51:04,400 --> 00:51:09,320
longer.
And they they hide their actual

771
00:51:09,320 --> 00:51:12,520
fear of the doctrine and its
implications on their personal

772
00:51:12,520 --> 00:51:15,960
responsibility.
They hide behind outrage,

773
00:51:15,960 --> 00:51:19,120
though.
It's outrage culture and it's

774
00:51:19,120 --> 00:51:23,000
this, you know, and guess what?
It's the same tactic that the

775
00:51:23,000 --> 00:51:26,440
scribes and Pharisees used
against Jesus in the New

776
00:51:26,440 --> 00:51:31,240
Testament.
You know, Christ basically said

777
00:51:31,240 --> 00:51:32,960
we are the sons of God.
I am this.

778
00:51:32,960 --> 00:51:37,800
I am the son of Adam, if, if you
actually look at it in Hebrew,

779
00:51:37,800 --> 00:51:40,880
the word Adam is the same word
as the word man.

780
00:51:41,400 --> 00:51:46,720
And so when he says I am the son
of man, he's literally saying

781
00:51:46,720 --> 00:51:51,120
I'm the son of Adam.
And, and, and what was their

782
00:51:51,120 --> 00:51:54,080
response, though?
I mean, these, these ancients,

783
00:51:54,080 --> 00:51:56,880
and we're so much more
enlightened and, and advanced

784
00:51:56,880 --> 00:52:01,120
than than ancient Pharisees were
right, Of course, but they,

785
00:52:01,240 --> 00:52:05,960
they, they instantly go to thou
being a man makest thyself God.

786
00:52:07,040 --> 00:52:11,040
So it's, they're, they're, it's
this outrage culture of a

787
00:52:11,040 --> 00:52:16,200
perceived debasement of God.
And it's entrenched in

788
00:52:16,200 --> 00:52:23,840
monotheism.
The this idea that, oh, it, it

789
00:52:23,840 --> 00:52:27,800
can only be one God.
You know, there's interesting

790
00:52:28,440 --> 00:52:33,920
things in the Old Testament that
certain scholars interpret as

791
00:52:33,920 --> 00:52:37,240
there's different authors.
There's there's the, the Jehovah

792
00:52:37,240 --> 00:52:39,480
ists, the they call them
Yahwists.

793
00:52:39,760 --> 00:52:43,320
Then there's the Elohim camp,
and then there's other, the

794
00:52:43,320 --> 00:52:45,360
priests.
And anyway, I don't want to get

795
00:52:45,360 --> 00:52:50,680
into the weeds on that, but but
it does appear that the the Old

796
00:52:50,680 --> 00:52:54,960
Testament either has multiple
authors with kind of different

797
00:52:54,960 --> 00:52:58,360
perspectives, or there were
there were edits that were made,

798
00:52:59,160 --> 00:53:01,320
perhaps well intended or perhaps
not.

799
00:53:01,320 --> 00:53:08,120
But but ultimately the the point
being this, this absolute

800
00:53:08,600 --> 00:53:13,720
insistence on monotheism is not
something that is throughout the

801
00:53:13,720 --> 00:53:15,840
Bible.
There are certain passages that

802
00:53:15,840 --> 00:53:18,680
that do insist on it, but not
all of them.

803
00:53:19,320 --> 00:53:23,960
And so, yeah, that's, that's a,
that's a different conversation.

804
00:53:23,960 --> 00:53:27,320
You've kind of already had
discussions with Joshua Erickson

805
00:53:27,320 --> 00:53:31,480
and and others on that topic.
But I think it just bears

806
00:53:32,720 --> 00:53:38,520
keeping in mind, again, that
that the, you know, sometimes

807
00:53:38,520 --> 00:53:42,280
you can appeal to the scriptures
to settle questions, debates,

808
00:53:42,920 --> 00:53:46,800
you know, doctrinal concerns or,
or, you know, uncertainties.

809
00:53:47,200 --> 00:53:51,400
Other times, though, the
scriptures have been tampered

810
00:53:51,400 --> 00:53:54,240
with.
The Book of Mormon is and and

811
00:53:54,240 --> 00:53:57,560
the doctrine and Covenants, the
the modern restoration

812
00:53:58,280 --> 00:54:04,080
scriptures are the lone
exception because they they were

813
00:54:04,080 --> 00:54:06,680
preserved in purity by God, by
God's hand.

814
00:54:07,640 --> 00:54:10,480
At least it's it's professes to.
So if you have a testimony of

815
00:54:10,480 --> 00:54:13,520
the Book of Mormon, then that
comes with the territory.

816
00:54:14,600 --> 00:54:17,880
It's it's it's unique in in the
volumes of scripture in that

817
00:54:17,880 --> 00:54:23,760
way.
Then the other thing is that the

818
00:54:24,640 --> 00:54:27,400
we have the other teachings of
Joseph that, you know, 'cause

819
00:54:27,800 --> 00:54:31,000
certain things were canonized
and published is revelate in

820
00:54:31,000 --> 00:54:33,440
revelation form.
Other things, though, are kind

821
00:54:33,440 --> 00:54:35,440
of more like the oral
traditions, things that were

822
00:54:35,440 --> 00:54:38,400
taught privately, things that
were not publicly announced.

823
00:54:39,040 --> 00:54:42,880
But we have the temple liturgy
and and those types of

824
00:54:43,400 --> 00:54:47,320
ceremonies.
And so we, we are great

825
00:54:47,320 --> 00:54:53,160
beneficiaries of, of something
that the ancients didn't really

826
00:54:53,160 --> 00:54:57,480
have.
We have access to pure scripture

827
00:54:57,960 --> 00:55:03,920
that, you know, not even the
ancient Israelites apparently

828
00:55:03,920 --> 00:55:09,360
had at least post exile.
And because that's what the Book

829
00:55:09,360 --> 00:55:13,480
of Mormon talks about is that's
that's when things got

830
00:55:13,480 --> 00:55:18,400
corrupted.
So anyway, again, going back to

831
00:55:18,400 --> 00:55:24,040
this perceived debasement of
God, that that how could you

832
00:55:24,040 --> 00:55:35,160
think that God was like a man?
And, and it's not, it's a, it is

833
00:55:35,160 --> 00:55:39,320
funny when you to, to me, but I
get it like, 'cause I did not

834
00:55:39,320 --> 00:55:43,320
grow up with these perspectives.
This is something I earned after

835
00:55:43,320 --> 00:55:47,720
a lifetime of study, you know,
and, and prayer and and and and

836
00:55:47,720 --> 00:55:52,000
effort.
But yeah, these are the things

837
00:55:52,000 --> 00:55:54,480
that are difficult to hear for
the first time.

838
00:55:56,280 --> 00:56:00,440
But, but the way that I would
explain is that we're not

839
00:56:00,440 --> 00:56:03,040
debasing God.
We're not insulting God.

840
00:56:04,440 --> 00:56:10,920
It's, it's elevating human
potential and, and it's the,

841
00:56:10,920 --> 00:56:15,760
it's the elevation of human
potential that that Christians

842
00:56:17,400 --> 00:56:20,720
don't like.
Because again, talk about

843
00:56:20,720 --> 00:56:28,200
responsibility. 100% it.
It not only just elevates our

844
00:56:28,200 --> 00:56:32,360
potential, I really believe that
it, it, it elevates, it

845
00:56:32,360 --> 00:56:36,240
enlightens our, our
comprehension and our, our, our

846
00:56:36,240 --> 00:56:38,760
minds to seek for, for better
things.

847
00:56:38,840 --> 00:56:42,440
Right.
But again, if you're, if you

848
00:56:42,440 --> 00:56:50,560
come from a place that your,
your religious responsibility is

849
00:56:50,560 --> 00:56:53,120
to sit in the pews for an hour
and a half in the morning,

850
00:56:53,120 --> 00:56:57,000
throw, throw a 50 in the
collection plate and then head

851
00:56:57,000 --> 00:56:59,960
home for the rest of the day
with doing nothing else.

852
00:56:59,960 --> 00:57:04,080
It's a scary proposition, right?
Look, I'll be the first one to

853
00:57:04,080 --> 00:57:07,560
admit when, when I joined the
LDS church, we were still having

854
00:57:07,560 --> 00:57:12,640
the three hour block, right?
And you know, we, we, we went

855
00:57:12,640 --> 00:57:15,320
through the thing where I, I
gave up smoking, I gave up

856
00:57:15,320 --> 00:57:18,000
drinking, I gave up, you know,
coffee.

857
00:57:18,400 --> 00:57:21,600
And then they're like, oh, and
by the way, there's three hours

858
00:57:21,600 --> 00:57:24,320
of church.
And I'm like, look, if your God

859
00:57:24,320 --> 00:57:27,040
can't get it done in an hour and
a half like everybody else's, I

860
00:57:27,040 --> 00:57:32,720
don't know what you want me to
say, but like understanding

861
00:57:32,720 --> 00:57:38,120
these things that the fall in
its proper context is going to

862
00:57:38,120 --> 00:57:41,280
require more and it's
disconcerting.

863
00:57:41,680 --> 00:57:47,120
And when your notions of who God
is are challenged, that's

864
00:57:47,160 --> 00:57:50,640
disconcerting, right?
I don't, I, I'm not saying that

865
00:57:50,640 --> 00:57:53,600
from a place of saying they're
just lazy, right?

866
00:57:53,600 --> 00:57:58,960
Because I don't believe that.
I just think that it is such a

867
00:57:58,960 --> 00:58:02,800
drastic departure from
everything that they thought was

868
00:58:02,800 --> 00:58:06,440
Orthodox that it it's
unsettling.

869
00:58:08,160 --> 00:58:09,800
Absolutely.
And you know, we've been a

870
00:58:09,800 --> 00:58:14,040
little bit hard on sectarian
Christianity, but let's talk.

871
00:58:14,440 --> 00:58:19,160
Let's pivot and talk about the
early Latter Day Saints.

872
00:58:20,200 --> 00:58:22,640
This is a quote from Joseph
Smith.

873
00:58:23,480 --> 00:58:27,160
This is from June 11th, 1843.
You can find it in Church

874
00:58:27,160 --> 00:58:32,480
History volume 5 page 424.
He says many men will say I will

875
00:58:32,480 --> 00:58:35,400
never forsake you, but will
stand by you at all times.

876
00:58:35,880 --> 00:58:38,400
But the moment you teach them
some of the mysteries of the

877
00:58:38,400 --> 00:58:41,280
Kingdom of God that are retained
in the heavens and are to be

878
00:58:41,280 --> 00:58:44,200
revealed to the children of men
when they are prepared for them,

879
00:58:44,840 --> 00:58:47,920
they will be the first to stone
you and put you to death.

880
00:58:48,120 --> 00:58:51,560
It was this same principle that
crucified the Lord Jesus Christ

881
00:58:51,960 --> 00:58:54,800
and will cause the people to
kill the prophets in this

882
00:58:54,800 --> 00:58:57,240
generation.
Absolutely.

883
00:59:00,720 --> 00:59:04,320
So, and you hit on one of the
things which is like traditions

884
00:59:04,320 --> 00:59:08,360
and, and you know, section 93 in
the Doctrine and Covenants.

885
00:59:08,880 --> 00:59:10,480
I'll, I'll pull that up real
quick.

886
00:59:10,560 --> 00:59:12,600
Section 93.
Verse 39.

887
00:59:13,280 --> 00:59:16,120
Few months back, Justin Frankham
had an idea to make learning

888
00:59:16,120 --> 00:59:18,840
about the fullness of the
restored gospel a lot easier.

889
00:59:19,160 --> 00:59:22,040
It was an idea that once I had
my mind wrapped around it, I

890
00:59:22,040 --> 00:59:23,520
felt like it could do a lot of
good.

891
00:59:23,880 --> 00:59:27,280
Mormon Legacy Ministries is a
multi denominational ministering

892
00:59:27,280 --> 00:59:30,960
effort to provide a safe landing
place for Mormons to land until

893
00:59:30,960 --> 00:59:33,880
they find their forever church
home, while at the same time

894
00:59:33,880 --> 00:59:36,640
offering folks an opportunity
for worship and fellowship.

895
00:59:36,920 --> 00:59:39,760
Here's a little bit of what
Mormon Legacy Ministries is

896
00:59:39,760 --> 00:59:43,040
offering.
Every second and 4th Saturday of

897
00:59:43,040 --> 00:59:46,040
the month at 3:00 PM Mountain
Standard Time, a sacrament

898
00:59:46,040 --> 00:59:48,120
meeting is conducted by Joshua
Erickson.

899
00:59:48,640 --> 00:59:51,840
Every Thursday at 6:00 PM
Mountain Standard Time is the

900
00:59:51,840 --> 00:59:55,720
Gospel Fundamentals class hosted
by Elior Walker and Braxton

901
00:59:55,720 --> 00:59:58,200
Bogart.
Quarterly men's meetings are

902
00:59:58,200 --> 01:00:00,160
also held.
The next one of those will be

903
01:00:00,160 --> 01:00:03,600
Saturday, February 14th at 6:00
PM Mountain Standard Time.

904
01:00:04,080 --> 01:00:06,800
There's a women's organization,
and to learn more about that, go

905
01:00:06,800 --> 01:00:09,840
to mormonlegacy.org and click on
that link.

906
01:00:10,360 --> 01:00:14,280
Finally, for a limited time,
starting February 2nd at 6:00 PM

907
01:00:14,520 --> 01:00:17,800
and every Monday after that at
6:00 PM Mountain Standard Time,

908
01:00:18,080 --> 01:00:21,600
a discussion group will be held
on the book The 5000 Year Leap

909
01:00:21,600 --> 01:00:26,240
by Cleon Skousen.
So whether you're an independent

910
01:00:26,240 --> 01:00:28,800
Mormon fundamentalist, or maybe
you're a Mormon fundamentalist

911
01:00:28,800 --> 01:00:31,920
already in a group, but you want
more opportunities to learn and

912
01:00:31,920 --> 01:00:35,880
serve, or perhaps you're an LDS
person wanting to learn more

913
01:00:35,880 --> 01:00:38,760
about what your theological
cousins believe, or maybe even

914
01:00:38,760 --> 01:00:40,880
you're not a Mormon at all and
you're just curious about the

915
01:00:40,880 --> 01:00:44,720
faith, Mormon Legacy Ministries
is the place for you where you

916
01:00:44,720 --> 01:00:48,000
can go to learn all those things
from the comfort of your own

917
01:00:48,000 --> 01:00:50,960
home over Zoom.
To get there, all you need to do

918
01:00:50,960 --> 01:00:55,840
is go to mormonlegacy.org and
then click any or all of those

919
01:00:56,360 --> 01:00:58,040
classes that are being offered
there.

920
01:00:58,600 --> 01:01:01,040
Again, that's Mormon
legacyministries.org.

921
01:01:01,040 --> 01:01:06,200
Go there today and sign up.
Talk specifically about how the

922
01:01:06,240 --> 01:01:11,800
adversary uses traditions.
And so this is section 93 verse

923
01:01:11,800 --> 01:01:13,640
39.
Easy to remember because it's 93

924
01:01:13,640 --> 01:01:18,080
then 39 and that wicked 1 cometh
and taketh away light and truth.

925
01:01:19,080 --> 01:01:24,240
So how it so that the adversary
can actually dumb us down, You

926
01:01:24,240 --> 01:01:27,560
know, stupify us, take away
light and truth through

927
01:01:27,560 --> 01:01:31,160
disobedience.
So outright sin or rebellion is

928
01:01:31,160 --> 01:01:33,120
is one form from the children of
men.

929
01:01:33,720 --> 01:01:37,240
But then the second form, he
said it, it, it reads because of

930
01:01:37,240 --> 01:01:45,000
the tradition of their fathers.
And, and so we inherit

931
01:01:45,000 --> 01:01:47,040
traditions 'cause that's how we
were raised.

932
01:01:47,040 --> 01:01:50,200
That's just where that's kind of
how our human nature is.

933
01:01:50,760 --> 01:01:55,680
And, and we tend to not depart
from them.

934
01:01:55,680 --> 01:01:59,640
You know, the proverb talks
about the, the child raise up a

935
01:01:59,640 --> 01:02:01,720
child in the way he should go.
And when he's old, he will not

936
01:02:01,720 --> 01:02:03,000
depart from it.
Why?

937
01:02:03,000 --> 01:02:04,480
Because we are creatures of
habit.

938
01:02:04,480 --> 01:02:08,520
We, we love doing the same thing
that we've always done.

939
01:02:08,520 --> 01:02:14,200
What's familiar to us, Right?
And, but, but, so that is a

940
01:02:14,200 --> 01:02:19,600
problem if the thing that we've
always done isn't the right

941
01:02:19,600 --> 01:02:23,640
thing, right?
So, so, yeah.

942
01:02:23,720 --> 01:02:29,560
But the adversary can use our
sincerely held false traditions

943
01:02:30,080 --> 01:02:38,040
as a tool to, to damn us and,
and, and without even without

944
01:02:38,040 --> 01:02:41,600
even us realizing it, cause a
tradition, you know, you think

945
01:02:41,600 --> 01:02:45,200
about a, a false tradition and
it's that that's there's a

946
01:02:45,200 --> 01:02:48,840
reason it's a tradition.
It's because we think it's

947
01:02:48,840 --> 01:02:54,960
right.
So, so anyway, let's, there was

948
01:02:54,960 --> 01:02:58,880
another quote I had kind of
similar, but it just another

949
01:02:58,880 --> 01:03:02,200
instance of this.
And now these quotes, I'm, I'm

950
01:03:02,200 --> 01:03:05,360
presenting it in the context of
Adam God theology.

951
01:03:05,800 --> 01:03:09,160
They were not explicitly Joe
Joseph was not saying, for

952
01:03:09,160 --> 01:03:12,160
instance, one of these mysteries
of the Kingdom of God is, is

953
01:03:12,160 --> 01:03:14,360
Adam.
So I, I'm, I'm just applying it.

954
01:03:14,360 --> 01:03:18,840
I'm not directly attributing
these quotes, but there's

955
01:03:18,840 --> 01:03:21,520
another one.
But he, he made several of them.

956
01:03:21,920 --> 01:03:25,160
Another one that I was able to
find in my notes pretty easy is

957
01:03:25,160 --> 01:03:30,400
in on January 2420, first 1844,
so just six months after the

958
01:03:30,400 --> 01:03:32,240
first one.
This is in History of the

959
01:03:32,240 --> 01:03:34,720
Church, Volume 6, pages 184 and
5.

960
01:03:35,280 --> 01:03:37,840
He says there's been great
difficulty in getting anything

961
01:03:37,840 --> 01:03:39,400
into the heads of this
generation.

962
01:03:40,040 --> 01:03:42,680
It has been like splitting
hemlock knots with a corn Dodger

963
01:03:44,040 --> 01:03:47,040
for a wedge, a piece of
cornbread for a, a wedge and a

964
01:03:47,040 --> 01:03:49,840
pumpkin for a, a beetle or a
mallet to beat it with.

965
01:03:50,680 --> 01:03:52,320
Even the Saints are slow to
understand.

966
01:03:52,320 --> 01:03:54,440
So he's kind of venting a little
bit here.

967
01:03:54,680 --> 01:03:58,280
He's kind of a little bit
frustrated that he's, he wants

968
01:03:58,280 --> 01:04:04,720
to share more and he is not able
to because the Saints are so

969
01:04:04,720 --> 01:04:09,960
unwilling to accept it.
And we frequently see some of

970
01:04:09,960 --> 01:04:12,920
them, the Saints, even the
Saints are slow to understand.

971
01:04:12,920 --> 01:04:14,920
I have tried for a number of
years to get the minds of the

972
01:04:14,920 --> 01:04:18,440
Saints prepared to receive the
things of God, but we frequently

973
01:04:18,440 --> 01:04:21,720
see some of them, after
suffering all they have for the

974
01:04:21,720 --> 01:04:25,720
work of God, will fly to pieces
like glass as soon as they as

975
01:04:25,720 --> 01:04:28,200
anything comes that is contrary
to their traditions.

976
01:04:28,600 --> 01:04:30,360
They cannot stand the fire at
all.

977
01:04:30,800 --> 01:04:33,800
How many will be able to abide a
celestial law and go through and

978
01:04:33,800 --> 01:04:37,240
receive their exaltation?
I am unable to say as many are

979
01:04:37,240 --> 01:04:43,560
called but few are chosen.
Taylor yo, if if you don't mind

980
01:04:44,040 --> 01:04:52,520
this, this is so good, right?
Because this is showing a, a

981
01:04:52,520 --> 01:04:56,560
human pattern, not just a, a
sectarian or a Mormon pattern.

982
01:04:56,560 --> 01:04:58,480
This is a, this is a human
pattern.

983
01:04:59,000 --> 01:05:05,440
I remember when we were adopting
our twins and they were, it was

984
01:05:05,440 --> 01:05:07,080
so silly.
I already had four kids.

985
01:05:07,080 --> 01:05:09,040
The state asked us to adopt
them.

986
01:05:09,280 --> 01:05:13,480
We were happy to do it.
And but one of the first things

987
01:05:13,480 --> 01:05:17,080
they said is once we got back
there and me and Amber were both

988
01:05:17,080 --> 01:05:20,360
there, they're like, hey, you
guys are going to need to become

989
01:05:20,360 --> 01:05:22,840
foster parents 1st.
And I was like, right, but we're

990
01:05:22,840 --> 01:05:24,880
going to adopt them.
And they're like, right, that,

991
01:05:24,880 --> 01:05:27,200
but policy is you have to be a
foster parent first.

992
01:05:27,200 --> 01:05:28,440
I'm like, OK, what do we got to
do?

993
01:05:29,280 --> 01:05:35,560
You got to go take a six week
parenting course and I'm like, I

994
01:05:35,560 --> 01:05:40,800
was like, no, so I had four.
What's that?

995
01:05:41,080 --> 01:05:42,440
You.
You already had four children at

996
01:05:42,440 --> 01:05:44,120
this .0.
Yeah, I had four kids at this

997
01:05:44,120 --> 01:05:48,080
point, right?
And so I'm like, oh, you, you

998
01:05:48,120 --> 01:05:50,320
guys, right.
But I'm like whatever.

999
01:05:50,720 --> 01:05:52,160
Feeling a little bait and switch
there.

1000
01:05:52,720 --> 01:05:54,440
Feeling a little bait and
switch, right?

1001
01:05:54,440 --> 01:05:58,720
I just still done it right, but
like I didn't negotiate a little

1002
01:05:58,720 --> 01:06:00,480
harder.
But anyway.

1003
01:06:00,880 --> 01:06:05,560
I, I said OK, well I'm back.
I had to go back a month early

1004
01:06:05,560 --> 01:06:07,680
in front of Amber and the other
four kids, right?

1005
01:06:07,680 --> 01:06:10,840
Because I had to go out.
I had to buy a house.

1006
01:06:10,840 --> 01:06:13,320
I had, you know, the job was
easy.

1007
01:06:13,320 --> 01:06:16,200
I just messaged a buddy back who
messaged me like 2 weeks before

1008
01:06:16,200 --> 01:06:17,800
asking if I was ready to come
back.

1009
01:06:18,640 --> 01:06:21,880
And I was able, you know, I went
back a month ahead.

1010
01:06:21,880 --> 01:06:26,640
I got the house and I thought,
OK, since since this has to be

1011
01:06:26,640 --> 01:06:30,000
done, I'm not doing anything
except going home to my lawn

1012
01:06:30,000 --> 01:06:33,200
chair in my house and either
ordering pizza or eating chili

1013
01:06:33,200 --> 01:06:36,200
and eating it out of the one pan
with the one spoon I got.

1014
01:06:36,640 --> 01:06:39,560
So I guess I'll just go ahead
and bite the bullet and get this

1015
01:06:39,560 --> 01:06:43,120
done.
So I went in by myself that

1016
01:06:43,120 --> 01:06:45,960
first time around and the rule
was as long as one person was a

1017
01:06:45,960 --> 01:06:49,000
foster parent, they could go
ahead and place the kids, right?

1018
01:06:49,000 --> 01:06:51,560
So my thought is, is I'll get
here, I'll get it done, and then

1019
01:06:51,560 --> 01:06:53,800
if Amber needs to get it done,
she can get it done while she's

1020
01:06:53,800 --> 01:06:57,760
here and then I can watch the
kids why she goes out and do

1021
01:06:57,760 --> 01:07:00,960
that.
So I start taking these classes

1022
01:07:01,000 --> 01:07:03,440
and they are painful.
I mean painful.

1023
01:07:03,440 --> 01:07:06,920
I get through, I get through
there.

1024
01:07:06,920 --> 01:07:10,440
They were twice a week for six
weeks and I got through exactly

1025
01:07:10,440 --> 01:07:12,920
3 classes.
And I remember in the middle of

1026
01:07:12,920 --> 01:07:15,440
that third class I'm like, I
just, I can't do this anymore.

1027
01:07:15,440 --> 01:07:17,800
This is horrible.
God, Get Me Out of this.

1028
01:07:18,400 --> 01:07:25,520
And that night when the class
was wrapping up, the guy they

1029
01:07:25,520 --> 01:07:28,200
were it was team taught by a
woman and and a man.

1030
01:07:29,440 --> 01:07:33,040
And look, that woman could tell
I did was not happy to be there,

1031
01:07:33,040 --> 01:07:35,440
right?
Like she didn't call on me.

1032
01:07:35,440 --> 01:07:37,480
And to be honest, I was really
good about that.

1033
01:07:37,480 --> 01:07:39,840
I was happy with that.
I made sure that she knew I

1034
01:07:39,840 --> 01:07:41,800
wasn't happy to be there.
I was playing the game.

1035
01:07:42,720 --> 01:07:47,080
But the dude who was the other
teacher, he got sick that night.

1036
01:07:47,080 --> 01:07:50,960
Like, you saw he really got
really white pasty.

1037
01:07:51,440 --> 01:07:53,800
Like he ended up dismissing
himself and going home.

1038
01:07:56,000 --> 01:07:59,080
We were just wrapping up the
class when this woman's cell

1039
01:07:59,080 --> 01:08:01,560
phone goes off.
She looks at it and you can tell

1040
01:08:01,560 --> 01:08:03,600
her countenance changed and she
shuts it off.

1041
01:08:04,920 --> 01:08:07,520
And we're getting ready to to
head out.

1042
01:08:07,520 --> 01:08:10,400
And she's like, Dave Sanders,
can I see you for a minute?

1043
01:08:10,400 --> 01:08:13,680
And I'm like, it's no different
than high school, right?

1044
01:08:13,680 --> 01:08:14,760
It's no different than high
school.

1045
01:08:14,760 --> 01:08:16,080
I'm going to the principal's
office.

1046
01:08:16,080 --> 01:08:19,160
That's what's going on.
And I go up and I'm like, yes.

1047
01:08:19,160 --> 01:08:20,760
And she's like, you don't like
being here, do you?

1048
01:08:20,760 --> 01:08:26,240
And I'm like, I hate being here.
And she goes, I just got noticed

1049
01:08:26,240 --> 01:08:28,080
that we have to go do an
extraction.

1050
01:08:28,760 --> 01:08:32,800
Basically we got to get kids and
there always needs to be two of

1051
01:08:32,800 --> 01:08:36,920
us and nobody else is available.
If I sign your card right now,

1052
01:08:36,920 --> 01:08:38,760
will you go with me?
Because if you're a foster

1053
01:08:38,760 --> 01:08:42,240
parent, you can go with me.
OPS are going to meet us there.

1054
01:08:42,880 --> 01:08:45,279
They're just always has to be
two of us in the car together

1055
01:08:45,279 --> 01:08:49,040
with the kids.
And I'm like, done, I will do

1056
01:08:49,040 --> 01:08:50,920
that right now.
Done.

1057
01:08:51,520 --> 01:08:54,439
So not going to mention names
because I don't want to get the

1058
01:08:54,439 --> 01:08:56,680
poor woman in trouble with her
uppers there and whatever

1059
01:08:56,680 --> 01:08:58,359
bureaucracy she's now serving
in.

1060
01:08:59,160 --> 01:09:03,200
So I go on this on this, right?
And she's telling you she's kind

1061
01:09:03,200 --> 01:09:05,359
of prepping me in the car.
These are the things you need to

1062
01:09:05,359 --> 01:09:07,520
watch out for and blah, blah,
blah.

1063
01:09:07,520 --> 01:09:09,040
And I'm like, sweetie, no
problem.

1064
01:09:09,800 --> 01:09:12,800
We get there.
The the cops are already there

1065
01:09:12,800 --> 01:09:17,479
and they've got the parents in
handcuffs go in.

1066
01:09:17,479 --> 01:09:21,600
They've been cooking meth.
We went in and that house,

1067
01:09:21,600 --> 01:09:26,040
Taylor, was the most disgusting
house I had ever been in.

1068
01:09:26,600 --> 01:09:30,359
There were feces on the wall,
There was rotten, moldy food on

1069
01:09:30,359 --> 01:09:33,920
the counter.
The kids were malnourished.

1070
01:09:34,319 --> 01:09:39,359
It was depravity, absolute
depravity.

1071
01:09:39,359 --> 01:09:42,560
How someone could let a kid live
in that is beyond me.

1072
01:09:43,920 --> 01:09:49,080
But here's what stuck out to me.
As we were taking the kids, they

1073
01:09:49,080 --> 01:09:56,640
were still screaming to stay
where they were, screaming to

1074
01:09:56,640 --> 01:09:59,400
stay where they were.
Didn't matter if I said,

1075
01:09:59,400 --> 01:10:03,240
sweetheart, listen you, there's
not enough food here.

1076
01:10:03,240 --> 01:10:05,800
Mommy and daddy are sick.
We need to help you guys.

1077
01:10:05,800 --> 01:10:07,160
We're we're here to help you
guys.

1078
01:10:07,160 --> 01:10:09,080
And it still tears me up a
little bit to this day.

1079
01:10:09,520 --> 01:10:12,920
Nothing I could say would
comfort them in that moment

1080
01:10:14,040 --> 01:10:17,440
because they wanted to stay
where it was familiar.

1081
01:10:18,720 --> 01:10:21,400
Now, how does this tie into what
we were just talking about?

1082
01:10:23,920 --> 01:10:28,480
We strive as human beings to
stay where it's familiar.

1083
01:10:29,640 --> 01:10:33,160
When we get pressed, it's
uncomfortable.

1084
01:10:33,240 --> 01:10:36,600
We don't like it, right?
When we're forced to change

1085
01:10:36,840 --> 01:10:41,240
places or, or, or our thought
patterns or any of those other

1086
01:10:41,240 --> 01:10:46,360
things, we don't like it.
It's not comfortable, but, but

1087
01:10:46,680 --> 01:10:48,800
that's where the growth happens,
right?

1088
01:10:49,560 --> 01:10:52,440
And so as we encounter these
things, right?

1089
01:10:52,440 --> 01:10:55,600
And, and I'm really speaking to
the LDS audience at this point,

1090
01:10:56,440 --> 01:11:00,720
as you encounter these things,
there's going to be this natural

1091
01:11:01,680 --> 01:11:06,200
feeling of needing to stay right
where you're at in all your

1092
01:11:06,360 --> 01:11:10,680
beliefs and all your thoughts.
If you're stagnant, if you're

1093
01:11:10,680 --> 01:11:13,800
not moving forward, you're not
progressing.

1094
01:11:15,040 --> 01:11:16,680
And how can you tell you're
progressing?

1095
01:11:16,840 --> 01:11:19,560
Well, you just like, you know,
you're making gains at the gym

1096
01:11:19,560 --> 01:11:23,360
because it hurts a little bit
and you have to be willing to

1097
01:11:23,520 --> 01:11:26,920
sit with that hurt for a minute
to get down to the truth.

1098
01:11:26,920 --> 01:11:29,680
And I think that's what Joseph
is talking about there, right?

1099
01:11:30,000 --> 01:11:35,560
If I could just get them to
temporarily even abandoned, not

1100
01:11:35,560 --> 01:11:38,680
even abandoned, but maybe move
what is familiar to the back

1101
01:11:38,680 --> 01:11:41,640
burner.
They're capable of so much more,

1102
01:11:42,120 --> 01:11:44,960
and I think we need to realize
that as we encounter these other

1103
01:11:44,960 --> 01:11:47,120
doctrines, it might be a little
foreign to us.

1104
01:11:49,720 --> 01:11:56,520
Yeah, absolutely.
And I think that, you know, some

1105
01:11:56,680 --> 01:12:01,080
fundamentalists maybe are
familiar, but that doesn't just

1106
01:12:01,080 --> 01:12:03,080
because you're familiar with
this, just because your debt,

1107
01:12:03,080 --> 01:12:05,880
your parents taught you this
theology, doesn't mean you

1108
01:12:05,880 --> 01:12:10,000
believe it.
And so, you know, and I think

1109
01:12:10,000 --> 01:12:14,040
it's important to kind of
acknowledge, let, let me share 1

1110
01:12:14,040 --> 01:12:23,080
great quote from Brigham Young,
Heber C Kimball, Johnny Page,

1111
01:12:23,080 --> 01:12:26,000
Wilford Woodruff, John Taylor
and George J Smith, like the,

1112
01:12:26,120 --> 01:12:30,680
the, the leadership of the 12
and they, they issue a letter to

1113
01:12:30,680 --> 01:12:32,680
the elders of the Church of
Jesus Christ of Latter Day

1114
01:12:32,680 --> 01:12:35,000
Saints, to the churches
scattered abroad and to all the

1115
01:12:35,000 --> 01:12:37,760
Saints.
So this is like a a a press

1116
01:12:37,760 --> 01:12:40,440
release, right?
This is for all an internal memo

1117
01:12:40,440 --> 01:12:43,360
for the whole everybody that's
involved in the church.

1118
01:12:44,880 --> 01:12:48,520
He says they say study the word
of God and preach it and not

1119
01:12:48,520 --> 01:12:52,200
your opinions for no man's
opinions worth a straw advance

1120
01:12:52,200 --> 01:12:56,240
no principle but what you can
prove for one scriptural proof

1121
01:12:56,280 --> 01:13:00,720
is worth 10,000 opinions and I
think for anybody that is a

1122
01:13:00,720 --> 01:13:05,120
teacher of the gospel or you
know it has any kind of

1123
01:13:05,120 --> 01:13:08,240
responsibility or opportunities
to serve as in a teaching

1124
01:13:08,240 --> 01:13:11,560
capacity.
This is like this should go we

1125
01:13:11,560 --> 01:13:14,400
should print this off stick it
on your mirror, stick it in your

1126
01:13:15,320 --> 01:13:18,080
on your wall so you're seeing it
like all day every day.

1127
01:13:18,480 --> 01:13:22,680
This should be kind of our our
rallying cry as teachers of the

1128
01:13:22,680 --> 01:13:27,440
gospel.
Nevertheless, the the the

1129
01:13:27,440 --> 01:13:31,680
challenge with Adam God theology
is that we have to acknowledge

1130
01:13:31,680 --> 01:13:34,960
that there are scriptures that
seem to contradict it.

1131
01:13:35,640 --> 01:13:39,520
And so we have to balance this
with freedom of conscience and

1132
01:13:39,520 --> 01:13:42,920
we have to respect different
different people that may be in

1133
01:13:42,920 --> 01:13:45,640
different places in their
testimonies and whatnot.

1134
01:13:46,920 --> 01:13:54,200
In fact, Joseph Smith, there was
a, a guy named Pelletaya Brown

1135
01:13:54,200 --> 01:13:56,600
or Palatia.
I'm not sure how the how, what

1136
01:13:56,600 --> 01:14:00,920
the pronunciation is, but
Pelletaya is.

1137
01:14:01,080 --> 01:14:04,200
And so this is so this is Joseph
Smith standing up in like a

1138
01:14:04,200 --> 01:14:06,400
general conference talk
basically.

1139
01:14:06,400 --> 01:14:11,120
So this is April 8th, 1843.
So about just over a year before

1140
01:14:11,120 --> 01:14:13,280
he was killed.
This is in History of the

1141
01:14:13,280 --> 01:14:18,840
Church, Volume 5, page 340.
And so he kind of tells the

1142
01:14:18,840 --> 01:14:21,440
story, the back story in his
talk.

1143
01:14:21,440 --> 01:14:24,520
So I'm just going to read this.
Elder Pelatia Brown, one of the

1144
01:14:24,520 --> 01:14:28,360
wisest old heads we have among
us and whom I now see before me,

1145
01:14:28,680 --> 01:14:31,440
has been preaching concerning
the beast, which was full of

1146
01:14:31,440 --> 01:14:34,880
eyes before and behind.
And for this he was hauled up

1147
01:14:34,880 --> 01:14:36,800
for trial before the High
Council.

1148
01:14:37,720 --> 01:14:40,360
I did not like the old man being
called up for airing and

1149
01:14:40,360 --> 01:14:43,120
doctrine.
It looks too much like the

1150
01:14:43,120 --> 01:14:45,760
Methodist and not like the
Latter Day Saints.

1151
01:14:47,040 --> 01:14:49,520
Wow.
Methodists have creeds which a

1152
01:14:49,520 --> 01:14:52,800
man must believe or be asked out
of their church.

1153
01:14:53,680 --> 01:14:56,560
I want the liberty of thinking
and believing as I please.

1154
01:14:57,280 --> 01:15:00,080
It feels so good not to be
trammelled.

1155
01:15:00,840 --> 01:15:04,600
It does not prove that a man is
not a good man because he airs

1156
01:15:04,600 --> 01:15:08,920
in doctrine.
And there's a lot to unpack in

1157
01:15:08,920 --> 01:15:14,480
that.
So, so basically he doesn't ever

1158
01:15:14,480 --> 01:15:18,160
say whether or not Elder
Pelletier Brown was preaching

1159
01:15:18,160 --> 01:15:20,440
false or true doctrine.
So that's, that's one

1160
01:15:20,440 --> 01:15:23,840
interesting thing that we, we
just don't know what Joseph's

1161
01:15:23,840 --> 01:15:27,480
opinion was on, on the doctrine
that Pelletier Brown was

1162
01:15:27,480 --> 01:15:31,440
preaching.
What what we do know is Joseph

1163
01:15:31,440 --> 01:15:39,040
didn't like that he was called
up for trial and he says that

1164
01:15:39,360 --> 01:15:43,080
you know, we don't have creeds.
I want the liberty of thinking

1165
01:15:43,080 --> 01:15:46,720
and believing as I please.
And this goes back to article of

1166
01:15:46,720 --> 01:15:49,920
faith #11 we claim the privilege
of worshipping Almighty God

1167
01:15:49,920 --> 01:15:53,600
according to the dictates of our
own conscience and allow all men

1168
01:15:53,600 --> 01:15:55,760
the same privilege.
Let them worship how, where or

1169
01:15:55,760 --> 01:16:02,440
what they may That that's more
than just a cute little, you

1170
01:16:02,440 --> 01:16:06,080
know, thing that you embroidery
and or you know, that you teach

1171
01:16:06,080 --> 01:16:10,920
kids to memorize.
That was like Joseph's core

1172
01:16:10,920 --> 01:16:15,200
principle.
He really cared about freedom of

1173
01:16:15,200 --> 01:16:21,880
conscience.
And and so, you know, whether

1174
01:16:21,880 --> 01:16:24,640
you believe, you know, I'm not
sure who your listeners are.

1175
01:16:24,880 --> 01:16:30,200
Maybe some are fundamentalist
backgrounds, but don't you know,

1176
01:16:30,200 --> 01:16:32,400
they're just curious and then
this is what they're familiar

1177
01:16:32,760 --> 01:16:34,200
with.
Maybe there's, you know,

1178
01:16:34,560 --> 01:16:37,080
hardcore believing
fundamentalist that have devoted

1179
01:16:37,080 --> 01:16:39,960
years of theirs of their life
studying these things.

1180
01:16:40,360 --> 01:16:44,760
Maybe there's some LDS people
that that are kind of new to all

1181
01:16:44,760 --> 01:16:48,480
of this and, and still figuring
stuff out, like, I don't know

1182
01:16:48,480 --> 01:16:51,480
where, who, where you're at,
whoever's listening.

1183
01:16:52,280 --> 01:16:57,880
But what I do believe is that I
can't prove the Adam God

1184
01:16:57,880 --> 01:17:04,520
theology from the Scriptures or
you know, like rationally, any

1185
01:17:04,520 --> 01:17:06,000
more than you can prove it isn't
true.

1186
01:17:06,520 --> 01:17:10,120
Like, let's let's be fair, this
is not one of those things that

1187
01:17:10,120 --> 01:17:11,800
you can prove one way or
another.

1188
01:17:12,840 --> 01:17:15,160
No, because you can find
scriptures that seem to allude

1189
01:17:15,160 --> 01:17:19,520
to it and scriptures that that
would seem to to say the

1190
01:17:19,520 --> 01:17:21,280
opposite, right?
We would have to be.

1191
01:17:22,120 --> 01:17:25,520
However, I would say this, and
this is one thing that I think

1192
01:17:26,280 --> 01:17:29,760
all of Mormonism is losing a
little bit and I think it's

1193
01:17:29,760 --> 01:17:35,120
worth bearing out.
What's the Mormon definition of

1194
01:17:35,120 --> 01:17:39,080
scripture, Taylor?
Well, there's Canon, and then

1195
01:17:39,080 --> 01:17:41,000
there's scripture.
Exactly.

1196
01:17:41,000 --> 01:17:43,720
And that's where I'm going.
That's that's where I'm going.

1197
01:17:44,280 --> 01:17:47,360
These are Canon, right?
This is this is a collected

1198
01:17:47,360 --> 01:17:53,320
works of sacred writings that
have been presented and voted on

1199
01:17:53,600 --> 01:17:58,960
as being in the Canon.
OK, but Mormon, the the Mormon

1200
01:17:58,960 --> 01:18:02,160
idea of scripture is far more
expensive, right?

1201
01:18:02,400 --> 01:18:06,200
It is whatever is said by the
servants of the Lord when moved

1202
01:18:06,200 --> 01:18:10,000
upon by the spirit of the holy
by moved when moved upon by the

1203
01:18:10,000 --> 01:18:16,440
Spirit.
OK, so if we take that and we

1204
01:18:16,440 --> 01:18:20,640
say, OK, so that's the standard
it moved upon by the Holy Ghost.

1205
01:18:21,880 --> 01:18:27,160
I would say pay attention to not
just what you're reading, but

1206
01:18:27,160 --> 01:18:30,840
how it makes you feel.
If the Holy Ghost communicates

1207
01:18:30,840 --> 01:18:36,560
the truthfulness to you, that's
something to keep a hold of even

1208
01:18:36,560 --> 01:18:42,160
if you don't understand it,
because I agree with you 100%,

1209
01:18:42,160 --> 01:18:46,440
Taylor, You can find both verse.
You can find both verses for and

1210
01:18:46,440 --> 01:18:49,120
against the Adam God doctrine
and all of Scripture.

1211
01:18:51,360 --> 01:18:55,440
And so when, when that happens,
you should be left to revelation

1212
01:18:55,440 --> 01:19:00,680
at that point.
And so I would also say that to

1213
01:19:00,680 --> 01:19:03,360
understand the Adam God
doctrine, you're going to need

1214
01:19:03,360 --> 01:19:06,000
revelation.
And Christ kind of tells us so a

1215
01:19:06,000 --> 01:19:09,600
little bit when, when he said,
you know, when he's talking to

1216
01:19:09,600 --> 01:19:13,880
Peter and the other 12 in, in
Caesarea Philippi and he asked

1217
01:19:13,880 --> 01:19:17,440
them, who do you say I am?
And Peter finally gets to say,

1218
01:19:17,440 --> 01:19:19,120
well, you are, you're the
Christ, you're the Son of the

1219
01:19:19,120 --> 01:19:22,520
living God.
He said, blessed art you, art

1220
01:19:22,520 --> 01:19:24,840
thou, Simon Barchona, because
flesh and blood hath not

1221
01:19:24,840 --> 01:19:27,000
revealed it to thee, but thy
Father, which is in heaven,

1222
01:19:27,720 --> 01:19:30,240
indicating that there was
revelation there that happened.

1223
01:19:30,760 --> 01:19:35,000
Now if that's what it takes to
say that Jesus is the Son of

1224
01:19:35,000 --> 01:19:37,440
God, the Messiah, it's also
going to take that same

1225
01:19:37,440 --> 01:19:40,240
revelation to figure out who his
Father is.

1226
01:19:40,480 --> 01:19:44,160
And that is of the utmost
importance per what is said in

1227
01:19:44,160 --> 01:19:47,160
John, where this is life
eternal, to know Jesus Christ

1228
01:19:47,480 --> 01:19:49,800
and the only true God that sent
him.

1229
01:19:50,520 --> 01:19:54,880
Yeah.
And so if you, if you are

1230
01:19:54,880 --> 01:20:00,520
absolutely opposed to this
theology, I understand.

1231
01:20:02,440 --> 01:20:05,640
But I would invite you to
consider what if you're wrong?

1232
01:20:07,360 --> 01:20:15,080
Because really it's, I think
it's fabricated outrage in so

1233
01:20:15,080 --> 01:20:17,880
many cases.
The, the, the people who just

1234
01:20:18,400 --> 01:20:21,080
just hate on it.
And I think that it's really

1235
01:20:21,080 --> 01:20:26,400
they're compensating for, for
deeper issues, which is an, an

1236
01:20:26,400 --> 01:20:31,640
unwillingness or a fear of being
responsible for your own choices

1237
01:20:31,640 --> 01:20:35,760
all the time.
And, and it's way easier to have

1238
01:20:35,760 --> 01:20:42,600
a scapegoat.
So the if, if this is true,

1239
01:20:43,080 --> 01:20:45,920
again, like I kind of I think I
already said this, but it's

1240
01:20:45,920 --> 01:20:49,600
worth repeating.
If it's true, it's not demeaning

1241
01:20:49,600 --> 01:20:54,000
to God.
It's it's elevating to human

1242
01:20:54,000 --> 01:20:58,960
potential.
So and the other thing that you

1243
01:20:59,040 --> 01:21:02,440
you were, as you were just
talking about Dave, you know,

1244
01:21:02,440 --> 01:21:05,120
scripture.
I think another thing that is

1245
01:21:05,120 --> 01:21:12,080
not official Canon, but is, is,
is scripture would be like the

1246
01:21:12,080 --> 01:21:15,360
temple.
It's, it's not in the standard

1247
01:21:15,360 --> 01:21:20,640
works the the things that are
taught in the temple, but it

1248
01:21:20,640 --> 01:21:25,960
was, it was given by inspiration
of the Holy Ghost like that.

1249
01:21:25,960 --> 01:21:30,600
That is part of what the temple
does is, is it instructs us and

1250
01:21:30,600 --> 01:21:33,040
it, and it empowers us, the
things that we learn and the

1251
01:21:33,040 --> 01:21:36,800
covenants that we make in the
temple instruct us and empower

1252
01:21:36,800 --> 01:21:41,680
us to follow the Spirit.
And so if you're not familiar

1253
01:21:41,680 --> 01:21:44,320
with that, if it's not something
you've had experience with yet,

1254
01:21:44,640 --> 01:21:49,840
that's fine.
But I would encourage you to, to

1255
01:21:49,840 --> 01:21:52,600
prepare and, and seek that out
and, and receive that witness

1256
01:21:54,520 --> 01:21:57,520
and the let's see, one other
thing.

1257
01:21:57,520 --> 01:22:00,800
Oh, you were talking about, you
know, how does it make you feel?

1258
01:22:01,120 --> 01:22:04,520
You know, feelings in absence of
reason.

1259
01:22:04,520 --> 01:22:07,080
Like if somebody's trying to get
you to just go with your

1260
01:22:07,240 --> 01:22:12,680
feelings, that's a red flag.
Other people, because feelings

1261
01:22:12,920 --> 01:22:15,320
can be manipulated.
Ask anybody that's a victim of

1262
01:22:15,320 --> 01:22:18,760
like narcissistic abuse or any
kind of emotional abuse.

1263
01:22:19,040 --> 01:22:23,400
Like feelings can be manipulated
quite easily and and for very

1264
01:22:23,400 --> 01:22:27,240
evil, wicked things.
And so you can't just trust your

1265
01:22:27,240 --> 01:22:33,200
feelings.
By the same token reason, you

1266
01:22:33,200 --> 01:22:37,000
know, people can be reasoned
into some really dumb ideas and

1267
01:22:37,000 --> 01:22:39,560
it can seem rash.
Like, for instance,

1268
01:22:39,560 --> 01:22:42,920
libertarianism.
You know, you follow the, the

1269
01:22:44,120 --> 01:22:49,480
you follow libertarianism to its
full logical conclusion and it's

1270
01:22:49,480 --> 01:22:54,200
a freak show, right?
And I, I, I'm saying this as a

1271
01:22:54,200 --> 01:22:58,040
former, you know, libertarian
leaning person myself and, and

1272
01:22:58,040 --> 01:23:00,040
with friends that are, I mean,
it's all in good fun.

1273
01:23:00,040 --> 01:23:02,480
I'm, I'm not, I don't mean to be
offensive.

1274
01:23:02,600 --> 01:23:04,600
I'm not meaning to cause any
offense to anybody.

1275
01:23:05,040 --> 01:23:09,600
But you look at let's, let's
just look at the, the annual

1276
01:23:09,600 --> 01:23:14,000
convention that the Libertarian
Party throws every year.

1277
01:23:14,680 --> 01:23:17,280
You're right.
You're right, and I have many

1278
01:23:17,280 --> 01:23:20,200
libertarian leanings right.
Right.

1279
01:23:21,000 --> 01:23:23,920
But you know, I used to, I used
to identify as a libertarian and

1280
01:23:23,920 --> 01:23:27,920
I thought it made the most sense
because like, well, fiscal

1281
01:23:27,920 --> 01:23:33,120
conservatism and social
libertarian like liberalism,

1282
01:23:34,160 --> 01:23:36,280
that sounds like a great thing.
And you know, that was during

1283
01:23:36,280 --> 01:23:39,240
the especially in the 2008 and 9
Ron Paul movement.

1284
01:23:39,240 --> 01:23:42,720
You know, I, I was, I was very
involved in that at the time.

1285
01:23:43,160 --> 01:23:47,520
And you know, there's a lot of
good, there's a lot of truth in

1286
01:23:47,520 --> 01:23:50,640
libertarianism.
But when you follow it to its

1287
01:23:50,680 --> 01:23:56,640
actual logical conclusion and
you see what the people who are

1288
01:23:57,160 --> 01:24:00,480
hardcore libertarians in the,
especially the leadership like,

1289
01:24:00,680 --> 01:24:03,880
I'm not talking about the, just
the political philosophy of

1290
01:24:03,880 --> 01:24:07,640
libertarianism so much as I'm
talking about the Libertarian

1291
01:24:07,640 --> 01:24:11,880
Party in our political system.
But you look at the Libertarian

1292
01:24:11,880 --> 01:24:21,600
Party and what their people are
advocating for and like, it's

1293
01:24:21,600 --> 01:24:25,800
really hard to make a case
against pedophilia using the

1294
01:24:25,800 --> 01:24:29,720
logic of modern things, because
if it's, as long as it's

1295
01:24:29,720 --> 01:24:36,280
consensual, you know, but it's
like now or just complete

1296
01:24:36,520 --> 01:24:39,000
debauchery and in, in multiple
forms.

1297
01:24:39,440 --> 01:24:43,320
And so like, that's, that's
where I, I, I take issue with

1298
01:24:43,320 --> 01:24:46,680
that.
But this, this principle of

1299
01:24:46,680 --> 01:24:51,240
freedom of conscience and the
thing that we need to to be

1300
01:24:51,240 --> 01:24:53,920
careful of is you.
You don't want to just be wholly

1301
01:24:53,920 --> 01:24:58,360
reliant upon your reason, powers
of reason, but and you also

1302
01:24:58,360 --> 01:25:01,080
don't want to be wholly reliant
on your feelings.

1303
01:25:01,680 --> 01:25:04,880
That's why in section, I think
it's 8 or 9 somewhere around

1304
01:25:04,880 --> 01:25:07,720
there, it talks about how
revelation it, this is a

1305
01:25:07,720 --> 01:25:11,600
revelation directly,
specifically directed to Oliver

1306
01:25:11,600 --> 01:25:15,120
Cowdrey.
But we can profit, profit by

1307
01:25:15,120 --> 01:25:20,920
likening it to ourselves too.
Which is that he I will tell you

1308
01:25:20,920 --> 01:25:23,880
in your heart and in your mind.
Right.

1309
01:25:25,520 --> 01:25:29,680
And so the we can look at the
script, we need to search the

1310
01:25:29,680 --> 01:25:32,080
scriptures, we need to be
familiar and intimately

1311
01:25:32,080 --> 01:25:35,520
acquainted with what they say on
this and other subjects.

1312
01:25:36,320 --> 01:25:42,120
But we shouldn't just like turn
our brains off and and just

1313
01:25:42,360 --> 01:25:47,160
regurgitate things that, you
know, because like I said and

1314
01:25:47,160 --> 01:25:50,000
and like you've also agreed
there are scriptures and, and

1315
01:25:50,000 --> 01:25:52,440
it's important to acknowledge
that there are some scriptures

1316
01:25:52,760 --> 01:25:56,000
that appear to contradict Adam
got theology.

1317
01:25:56,520 --> 01:25:59,040
We have to be honest and, and
and acknowledge that.

1318
01:25:59,640 --> 01:26:03,280
And, and ultimately, I think
that it is, it does make the

1319
01:26:03,280 --> 01:26:09,000
most rational sense, But the
reason I believe in it and, and

1320
01:26:09,400 --> 01:26:15,240
you know, adamantly defend it is
actually because of how I feel

1321
01:26:15,240 --> 01:26:18,080
about it.
And like you, you mentioned when

1322
01:26:18,080 --> 01:26:28,760
God is your grandpa and he gave
up glory to give his grandkids a

1323
01:26:28,760 --> 01:26:35,920
shot at this whole life thing,
like that's special and it makes

1324
01:26:35,920 --> 01:26:40,560
heaven feel much closer.
You know, there's more to Adam

1325
01:26:40,560 --> 01:26:44,440
God theology and and this like,
you know, if, if we wanted to

1326
01:26:44,440 --> 01:26:47,040
get into like the seed of Christ
and that sort of thing.

1327
01:26:47,440 --> 01:26:51,000
I that was outside of kind of
scope for for me tonight.

1328
01:26:52,160 --> 01:26:56,880
But it's, there's so many
beautiful things that that have

1329
01:26:57,000 --> 01:27:01,720
just amazing implications for
all of us as Mormons that were

1330
01:27:01,720 --> 01:27:04,560
taught in the early days of the
restoration.

1331
01:27:05,600 --> 01:27:11,880
So don't just dismiss it or
don't just hate it because it's

1332
01:27:11,880 --> 01:27:16,680
unfamiliar or seems blasphemous.
You know, take a take a good

1333
01:27:16,680 --> 01:27:22,800
look at it and you know, because
of the nature of it, I would

1334
01:27:22,800 --> 01:27:24,120
love to be able to just prove
it.

1335
01:27:24,120 --> 01:27:27,400
Just say, hey, go to this book,
this chapter, this verse, this

1336
01:27:27,400 --> 01:27:29,360
proves it.
And there are certain things

1337
01:27:29,360 --> 01:27:32,000
that to me make it really hard
to deny.

1338
01:27:32,040 --> 01:27:35,480
You know, Section 88 comes to
mind and and Daniel 6 and the

1339
01:27:35,480 --> 01:27:38,680
teachings of Joseph and and.
Moses 7.

1340
01:27:38,920 --> 01:27:42,720
Moses 7 Absolutely.
There are certain things that

1341
01:27:42,720 --> 01:27:45,760
appear to make a bulletproof
case, but then there's other

1342
01:27:45,760 --> 01:27:50,080
things like ether chapter 3, the
brother of Jared's experiences

1343
01:27:50,080 --> 01:27:52,440
with, with the Savior premortal
Christ.

1344
01:27:52,800 --> 01:27:55,120
There's other things that you
know in the Doctrine and

1345
01:27:55,120 --> 01:28:00,520
Covenants that appear at first
glance to, to prove that this

1346
01:28:00,520 --> 01:28:06,680
isn't a true doctrine.
And so we've, we, we as Mormons,

1347
01:28:07,160 --> 01:28:11,000
we need to be more interested in
the truth than anything else.

1348
01:28:11,000 --> 01:28:17,120
We need to be more interested in
doing the thing in, in setting

1349
01:28:17,120 --> 01:28:19,880
aside finding the false
traditions that are that I

1350
01:28:19,880 --> 01:28:27,080
currently believe in and, and
dealing with them and, but never

1351
01:28:27,080 --> 01:28:30,560
closing myself off to where am I
wrong?

1352
01:28:30,560 --> 01:28:33,600
It's it's, it shouldn't be a
question of God, Am I wrong?

1353
01:28:33,600 --> 01:28:37,160
Is there an?
If no, it's where and how.

1354
01:28:37,320 --> 01:28:43,600
Can you please reveal to me how
to get back into and get on a

1355
01:28:43,600 --> 01:28:46,640
better track?
Absolutely.

1356
01:28:47,920 --> 01:28:50,480
You know, let me ask this
question here because it sounds

1357
01:28:50,480 --> 01:28:51,960
like you're getting close to
wrapping up.

1358
01:28:51,960 --> 01:28:54,280
Is that right?
Yeah, there's a couple other

1359
01:28:54,280 --> 01:28:55,640
things, but yeah, I'm pretty
much.

1360
01:28:57,080 --> 01:29:04,480
So why do you think that this is
so important to understand the

1361
01:29:04,480 --> 01:29:09,760
fall in the context of knowing
who God is really?

1362
01:29:10,920 --> 01:29:13,720
And what, what does that do for
us?

1363
01:29:16,560 --> 01:29:27,720
Yeah, the the if, if God, we are
everybody, I think.

1364
01:29:27,880 --> 01:29:32,120
I can't think of any Christians
or maybe Jehovah's Witnesses or

1365
01:29:32,120 --> 01:29:32,920
Muslims.
I don't.

1366
01:29:32,920 --> 01:29:33,720
I can't.
I can't.

1367
01:29:33,720 --> 01:29:35,600
I guess I can't.
It's definitive, but with it, at

1368
01:29:35,600 --> 01:29:39,840
least within Mormonism and I
think all of Christianity, we

1369
01:29:39,840 --> 01:29:42,480
all pray to a father.
Right.

1370
01:29:43,800 --> 01:29:52,080
And unfortunately for a lot of
Christians, that is just purely

1371
01:29:52,560 --> 01:29:56,360
metaphorical or it, it's, it's
not, it's, it's impersonal

1372
01:29:57,000 --> 01:30:00,680
because we have, because of
creeds that have painted this

1373
01:30:00,680 --> 01:30:05,080
picture of, you know, like you
were saying, a God without body

1374
01:30:05,080 --> 01:30:10,280
parts and passions.
And the, the sad reality of it

1375
01:30:10,280 --> 01:30:16,840
is, is that we need to know who
our Father is if we are going to

1376
01:30:16,840 --> 01:30:19,520
actually be able to worship him
in, in spirit and truth.

1377
01:30:20,000 --> 01:30:24,120
I think I'm quoting from
somewhere in Peter in Paul's

1378
01:30:24,120 --> 01:30:30,040
writings, but that we we have to
come to know if we are going to

1379
01:30:30,040 --> 01:30:32,320
do that.
Joseph Smith taught, and I think

1380
01:30:32,320 --> 01:30:38,080
this is in the lectures on faith
that if a man who does not have

1381
01:30:38,160 --> 01:30:45,720
a correct understanding of the
nature of God cannot comprehend

1382
01:30:45,720 --> 01:30:51,080
himself and, and also a man that
doesn't have a correct

1383
01:30:51,080 --> 01:30:53,200
understanding of God's
attributes.

1384
01:30:57,240 --> 01:30:59,400
I, I, I, maybe I should pull it
up.

1385
01:30:59,400 --> 01:31:02,280
But, but anyway, so to, to, to
get back to your question and

1386
01:31:02,280 --> 01:31:07,520
kind of to tie in the point.
I think that we if we want to

1387
01:31:07,520 --> 01:31:14,960
comprehend ourselves, who we
are, if we want to be able to

1388
01:31:14,960 --> 01:31:20,240
worship God in in truth and you
know, with this, his spirit, we

1389
01:31:20,240 --> 01:31:22,800
have to grapple with this and we
have to figure it out.

1390
01:31:23,040 --> 01:31:27,160
And you know, if somebody's
comes away from that exercise

1391
01:31:27,160 --> 01:31:32,000
convinced that, that it's a
false doctrine, I'm not going to

1392
01:31:32,000 --> 01:31:36,080
be 1 to, to argue and, and try
to change your mind.

1393
01:31:37,480 --> 01:31:40,280
We can still work together.
If you're in the restoration and

1394
01:31:40,280 --> 01:31:43,320
you want to or any Christian
group that wants to work.

1395
01:31:43,640 --> 01:31:45,520
I'm involved with the Mormon
legacy ministries.

1396
01:31:45,520 --> 01:31:49,240
I, I'm a, an active member of a,
of an organization, a

1397
01:31:49,240 --> 01:31:50,960
fundamentalist church
organization.

1398
01:31:51,480 --> 01:31:55,400
But I would love to work with
anybody, even if you think I'm

1399
01:31:55,400 --> 01:32:00,200
crazy for believing in this,
because like Joseph Smith was

1400
01:32:00,200 --> 01:32:03,200
saying, doesn't prove you're a
good or a bad man.

1401
01:32:03,200 --> 01:32:07,320
Just if you have some bad ideas
it, you know, absolutely false

1402
01:32:07,320 --> 01:32:11,440
doctrines.
So but yeah.

1403
01:32:11,440 --> 01:32:16,800
And in my personal experience,
nothing has made God feel more

1404
01:32:16,800 --> 01:32:22,720
real and personal than learning
about out of God theology for

1405
01:32:22,720 --> 01:32:29,160
the simple fact that God it
brings God down to earth in a

1406
01:32:29,160 --> 01:32:33,680
very literal sense.
Absolutely.

1407
01:32:34,800 --> 01:32:40,960
Let me let me ask this question.
When you were studying all this

1408
01:32:40,960 --> 01:32:45,840
out, did you come to a knowledge
or an acceptance of the Adam God

1409
01:32:45,840 --> 01:32:52,960
doctrine by reason first or
through revelation first?

1410
01:32:56,840 --> 01:33:05,960
Probably more by well, OK, if
I'm being completely honest, I

1411
01:33:06,360 --> 01:33:09,000
read Drew Briny's book
Understanding, understanding

1412
01:33:09,000 --> 01:33:13,720
Adam, God theology.
And as I was, as I was reading

1413
01:33:13,720 --> 01:33:18,640
that book, I was in my LDS
paradigm of when the prophet is

1414
01:33:18,640 --> 01:33:21,600
speaking as a prophet, he is
infallible.

1415
01:33:21,600 --> 01:33:24,440
You know, he's he can't be he
can't say anything wrong.

1416
01:33:24,920 --> 01:33:28,360
And then I was like, Oh my gosh,
Brigham Young taught this in

1417
01:33:28,360 --> 01:33:32,000
general conference, which in my
little paradigm was therefore

1418
01:33:33,560 --> 01:33:37,040
this is true.
And so it was perhaps neither

1419
01:33:37,120 --> 01:33:43,200
reason nor nor feeling first,
but more of a knee jerk reaction

1420
01:33:43,200 --> 01:33:46,040
of oh, Brigham Young was the
president of the church at this

1421
01:33:46,040 --> 01:33:47,720
time.
He said it in general

1422
01:33:47,720 --> 01:33:51,120
Conference.
Therefore, so I got to be, I got

1423
01:33:51,120 --> 01:33:56,080
to be real honest with where I
was in my I'm glad you did.

1424
01:33:57,720 --> 01:34:05,000
But yeah, that was really where
it started.

1425
01:34:05,600 --> 01:34:09,280
But then as I was going through
the book and I was being

1426
01:34:09,280 --> 01:34:17,920
confronted with, oh, wait, but
Bruce R Mcconkey said XYZ and he

1427
01:34:17,920 --> 01:34:20,400
was an apostle.
And it was in a general

1428
01:34:20,400 --> 01:34:23,960
conference setting or an
official, official sermon

1429
01:34:23,960 --> 01:34:28,960
setting.
And it's like, whoa, that that

1430
01:34:28,960 --> 01:34:31,120
broke my.
That's, that's what originally

1431
01:34:31,120 --> 01:34:35,280
broke me.
Because the two can't occupy the

1432
01:34:35,280 --> 01:34:37,680
same space.
Because one of them was wrong,

1433
01:34:37,680 --> 01:34:40,040
at least one of them was wrong,
right?

1434
01:34:40,120 --> 01:34:45,680
They both can't be right.
And so and so that led to very

1435
01:34:45,680 --> 01:34:51,200
uncomfortable, uncomfortable
situation for me where I had to

1436
01:34:51,200 --> 01:34:58,040
basically figure out, wait,
which which one of them is right

1437
01:34:58,440 --> 01:35:03,000
is was Bruce R Mcconkey Lion was
because because Bruce R Mcconkey

1438
01:35:03,000 --> 01:35:06,920
is like openly claiming Brigham
Young never taught these things.

1439
01:35:06,920 --> 01:35:10,920
And, and, and not, and if you
believe in it, you're, you're

1440
01:35:11,400 --> 01:35:13,160
guilty of a heresy and you're
going to hell.

1441
01:35:13,320 --> 01:35:15,560
You know, those are the types of
things that Bruce Mcconkey was

1442
01:35:15,560 --> 01:35:19,920
saying about it.
And that was hard because Bruce

1443
01:35:19,920 --> 01:35:22,840
and Punky was like one of my
favorite guys as a missionary

1444
01:35:22,840 --> 01:35:26,880
'cause he could just, he could
just throw it down and, and just

1445
01:35:26,880 --> 01:35:31,440
bold, you know, he was like the
ultimate boldness guy and role

1446
01:35:31,440 --> 01:35:35,400
model for a missionary.
And but so was Brigham.

1447
01:35:35,480 --> 01:35:40,000
I just wasn't as familiar with
Brigham earlier in my, in my

1448
01:35:40,680 --> 01:35:44,480
discipleship.
So, but ultimately, as I was

1449
01:35:44,480 --> 01:35:47,920
reading that book from Drew
Briny and it was talking, it was

1450
01:35:47,920 --> 01:35:54,600
specifically when it was talking
about the seed of Christ, Cause

1451
01:35:54,600 --> 01:35:58,560
at this point I had come, I had
come to accept Adam God theology

1452
01:35:59,080 --> 01:36:03,720
as probably true.
It was making sense.

1453
01:36:03,880 --> 01:36:07,680
It was undeniably taught by
Brigham and and various others.

1454
01:36:08,280 --> 01:36:15,080
And it was and it and it it made
it felt right.

1455
01:36:15,760 --> 01:36:19,640
I couldn't deny that that it
didn't have a have a feeling to

1456
01:36:19,640 --> 01:36:23,360
it.
But what really got me was when

1457
01:36:23,600 --> 01:36:29,840
I was continuing on in my study
of this book and it goes to the

1458
01:36:30,280 --> 01:36:36,400
the descendants of Christ.
And at that point realizing that

1459
01:36:37,080 --> 01:36:41,040
Joseph Smith was told that he
was a direct descendant of

1460
01:36:41,040 --> 01:36:43,320
Jesus.
And this is perhaps news to some

1461
01:36:43,320 --> 01:36:47,000
people listening.
It's actually alluded to in

1462
01:36:47,000 --> 01:36:49,040
Section 86 of the Doctrine
Covenants.

1463
01:36:49,040 --> 01:36:53,560
But there's also direct quotes
where Joseph Smith just just

1464
01:36:53,560 --> 01:36:56,800
openly claims it or acknowledges
it, whatever, however you want

1465
01:36:56,800 --> 01:37:00,880
to look at it.
And I'm related, I'm related to

1466
01:37:00,880 --> 01:37:08,320
Joseph Smith.
And when that set in, like I, it

1467
01:37:08,600 --> 01:37:13,680
brought me to tears and I had
never felt closer to God in a,

1468
01:37:14,880 --> 01:37:18,080
in a very literal sense, like
the burning in the bosom and,

1469
01:37:18,080 --> 01:37:23,640
and just the emotional
outpouring, just thinking about

1470
01:37:23,640 --> 01:37:28,960
the implications of that, I felt
more loved and like Heavenly

1471
01:37:28,960 --> 01:37:36,320
Father and Jesus are my
grandparents, not just the, the

1472
01:37:36,320 --> 01:37:41,640
nebulous figures in the sky, but
actually real people.

1473
01:37:42,520 --> 01:37:48,520
And you know, I get because when
I initially first started coming

1474
01:37:48,520 --> 01:37:53,800
across these types of things, it
was like it was repugnant to my

1475
01:37:53,800 --> 01:38:00,120
soul at first to think that God
came down and lived on this

1476
01:38:00,120 --> 01:38:04,720
earth like that's so below him.
But the more I've thought about

1477
01:38:04,720 --> 01:38:07,960
it, the more I've studied it out
and the more I've considered

1478
01:38:08,360 --> 01:38:13,560
and, you know, considered my
feelings on it, the more it is a

1479
01:38:13,560 --> 01:38:18,160
beautiful testimony of the love
of God for me and for all of our

1480
01:38:18,400 --> 01:38:24,520
all of his other children. 100%
So when I, I, when, when, when I

1481
01:38:24,520 --> 01:38:31,000
accepted it, I remember I
studied everything I could,

1482
01:38:31,960 --> 01:38:36,680
everything I could, including
Adam, God teachings, including

1483
01:38:36,680 --> 01:38:41,240
some study guides put out by
what was then probably still the

1484
01:38:41,240 --> 01:38:44,400
gold standard of fundamentalism
and fundamentalist groups,

1485
01:38:44,960 --> 01:38:47,040
right?
Their pamphlets, which were

1486
01:38:47,040 --> 01:38:49,880
excellent on it.
But then I'd see other things in

1487
01:38:49,880 --> 01:38:51,960
Scripture that would seem to
contradict it.

1488
01:38:52,360 --> 01:38:56,160
And I say seem because
realistically, in my opinion,

1489
01:38:56,720 --> 01:39:01,920
they, they do all work together.
It is not at odds at all.

1490
01:39:02,320 --> 01:39:04,760
I do think that it's hidden for
a reason, right?

1491
01:39:04,760 --> 01:39:08,120
I think that that it is a
mystery of godliness that you

1492
01:39:08,120 --> 01:39:12,840
have to strive for.
But I couldn't make sense of it.

1493
01:39:13,720 --> 01:39:16,160
I could not make sense of it.
I had too much competing

1494
01:39:16,160 --> 01:39:18,960
information.
I was well aware the early guys

1495
01:39:18,960 --> 01:39:22,320
taught it.
But that wasn't enough for me

1496
01:39:22,320 --> 01:39:24,000
just to want to hang my hat on
that.

1497
01:39:24,360 --> 01:39:27,240
Right.
And I'm starting really values

1498
01:39:27,240 --> 01:39:30,440
history.
Yeah, but but I couldn't, I

1499
01:39:30,440 --> 01:39:34,200
couldn't rely solely on history.
So I did the only thing I knew

1500
01:39:34,200 --> 01:39:36,280
what to do at that point, which
was to pray about it.

1501
01:39:37,840 --> 01:39:39,920
And I got up and there was no
vision.

1502
01:39:39,920 --> 01:39:41,760
There was nothing miraculous
like that.

1503
01:39:42,640 --> 01:39:44,080
But there was a burning of the
bosom.

1504
01:39:44,080 --> 01:39:47,440
There was a very distinct
message that no, this is

1505
01:39:47,440 --> 01:39:51,040
correct, this is who I am to
you.

1506
01:39:53,360 --> 01:39:56,720
And so I got up and I said, OK,
this, that's, that's what it is.

1507
01:39:58,000 --> 01:40:00,440
And in that moment I was like,
I'm never going to be able to

1508
01:40:00,440 --> 01:40:03,600
explain this to another person,
right?

1509
01:40:03,920 --> 01:40:09,680
I just won't ever get it.
And then about about two months

1510
01:40:09,680 --> 01:40:13,160
after that, like the scripture,
certain scripture started to pop

1511
01:40:13,160 --> 01:40:17,240
out and I'm like, oh, wait a
second, look at that, right?

1512
01:40:17,240 --> 01:40:22,800
It was there, but for whatever
reason I couldn't see it until I

1513
01:40:22,800 --> 01:40:26,040
had went to God first about it.
Now that's my own personal

1514
01:40:26,040 --> 01:40:27,600
journey.
You could get there many

1515
01:40:27,600 --> 01:40:32,000
different ways, but that was
that was one way I got it.

1516
01:40:32,880 --> 01:40:35,600
And then is there something you
wanted to contribute there?

1517
01:40:35,600 --> 01:40:37,760
I see.
Yeah, Ether 12.

1518
01:40:37,760 --> 01:40:41,440
Go ahead.
Ether 12/6 I would show into the

1519
01:40:41,440 --> 01:40:44,040
world that faith is things which
are hoped for and not seen.

1520
01:40:44,040 --> 01:40:47,120
Wherefore dispute not because
you see not for you receive no

1521
01:40:47,120 --> 01:40:50,600
witness until after the trial of
your faith and trial is just a

1522
01:40:50,600 --> 01:40:53,200
test.
So it's basically God just wants

1523
01:40:53,200 --> 01:40:54,440
to know what we're going to
choose.

1524
01:40:55,080 --> 01:40:58,080
He wants to know what do you
want?

1525
01:40:59,000 --> 01:41:05,600
And if you want to believe it,
he will let he will, He will

1526
01:41:05,640 --> 01:41:10,680
provide evidence.
He will provide proof, He will

1527
01:41:10,680 --> 01:41:12,960
provide a witness.
You know, the burning in the

1528
01:41:12,960 --> 01:41:15,840
bosom, not it.
I'm not talking about proof in

1529
01:41:15,840 --> 01:41:20,160
like a, you know, empirical or
even scriptural.

1530
01:41:20,800 --> 01:41:25,400
In your case, it was scriptural,
but but yeah, just some form of

1531
01:41:25,400 --> 01:41:27,880
a witness.
God has made this promise.

1532
01:41:28,640 --> 01:41:33,920
And so, yeah, we're for dispute,
not because you see not it's one

1533
01:41:33,920 --> 01:41:37,800
thing to say you can't prove
it's true.

1534
01:41:37,800 --> 01:41:42,280
It's another thing to say, but
neither you neither can you

1535
01:41:42,280 --> 01:41:44,280
prove it's false.
This is the kind of the

1536
01:41:44,280 --> 01:41:50,400
conundrum I like to present to
atheists who become that that I

1537
01:41:50,400 --> 01:41:54,480
get involved with in discussions
with is it's like, yeah, I can't

1538
01:41:54,480 --> 01:42:01,760
prove to you that God lives, but
ultimately you have to exercise

1539
01:42:01,760 --> 01:42:07,280
greater faith that God doesn't
exist because yeah, I've never

1540
01:42:07,280 --> 01:42:10,200
seen touch, heard, felt, you
know, smelled God.

1541
01:42:10,520 --> 01:42:12,480
Neither of you, none of neither
of us has.

1542
01:42:14,560 --> 01:42:18,480
But creation is self-evident.
You look out, you look out at

1543
01:42:18,480 --> 01:42:21,760
the, the trees on the mountain,
you go out just in your yard, go

1544
01:42:21,760 --> 01:42:23,960
look at a blade of grass or a
dandelion plant.

1545
01:42:24,240 --> 01:42:27,720
You pick up any little piece of
creation or a, a creature, a

1546
01:42:27,720 --> 01:42:31,720
little insect or a, you know, if
you have a pet or a child, you

1547
01:42:31,720 --> 01:42:36,200
look in the, at, at, in detail.
You look real close at any of

1548
01:42:36,200 --> 01:42:39,720
these creations and you look at
the symmetry, the beauty, the

1549
01:42:39,720 --> 01:42:44,400
order, and then try to tell me
with a straight face that that

1550
01:42:44,400 --> 01:42:48,760
just was random happenstance
that you believe in.

1551
01:42:48,760 --> 01:42:54,400
That takes way more faith than
to believe in a creator, because

1552
01:42:54,920 --> 01:42:57,520
creation is self-evident.
Right.

1553
01:42:57,680 --> 01:43:02,000
Yep, absolutely.
I, I want to end with this and

1554
01:43:02,000 --> 01:43:04,000
then I'll turn it back to you
for anything else you got.

1555
01:43:04,000 --> 01:43:10,240
You got to want to add here.
One of the things that I think

1556
01:43:10,240 --> 01:43:13,000
scare people about the Adam of
God doctrine is it feels like

1557
01:43:13,000 --> 01:43:17,400
we're dragging God down to us,
and that's not what's happening.

1558
01:43:18,320 --> 01:43:20,960
What's happening with the
acceptance of that is that we

1559
01:43:20,960 --> 01:43:25,960
are raising ourselves up
intellectually, spiritually to

1560
01:43:25,960 --> 01:43:29,040
where he's at.
Get that out of the way.

1561
01:43:30,240 --> 01:43:37,760
What is the for me, the big
message on the fall and the

1562
01:43:37,760 --> 01:43:48,520
atonement is love.
It took, it took three gods at

1563
01:43:48,520 --> 01:43:52,520
least to get us to where we want
to be.

1564
01:43:54,560 --> 01:44:01,560
It took our mother and father
being willing to make a

1565
01:44:01,560 --> 01:44:05,240
sacrifice, knowing full well
what it would entail.

1566
01:44:05,680 --> 01:44:07,800
They could compare and they
could contrast.

1567
01:44:08,840 --> 01:44:10,680
I'm going to go back into
mortality.

1568
01:44:10,840 --> 01:44:12,520
I'm going to become mortal
again.

1569
01:44:12,880 --> 01:44:16,760
I'm going to feel the sensations
of pain and hunger and heat and

1570
01:44:16,760 --> 01:44:24,120
thirst and cold and loss of my
children potentially, and all

1571
01:44:24,120 --> 01:44:30,200
these things.
But I love them so much that I

1572
01:44:30,200 --> 01:44:34,360
cannot not make the sacrifice
for them to give them this

1573
01:44:34,520 --> 01:44:38,240
chance.
And then it took the love of our

1574
01:44:38,240 --> 01:44:44,800
savior, our elder brother, to
say, yeah, I'll, I'll, I'll do

1575
01:44:44,800 --> 01:44:47,040
the next part.
Let me take that.

1576
01:44:49,760 --> 01:44:57,200
Why would anybody in an exalted
station like that ever do what

1577
01:44:57,200 --> 01:45:04,280
they did except for love?
And so if someone asked me what

1578
01:45:04,280 --> 01:45:09,240
does the fall represent, it's
not evil, it's not depravity,

1579
01:45:09,680 --> 01:45:16,120
it's not disobedience.
It is love of children and

1580
01:45:16,120 --> 01:45:23,520
family above all other things,
above all other things that

1581
01:45:23,520 --> 01:45:29,040
love.
A veil of forgetfulness could

1582
01:45:29,040 --> 01:45:33,840
not stop the love that our
parents had for us from coming

1583
01:45:33,840 --> 01:45:35,640
forward to do what they needed
to do.

1584
01:45:37,320 --> 01:45:41,080
And that's I think the big take
away that we should, we should

1585
01:45:41,080 --> 01:45:44,000
all look at.
I think we need you pointed out

1586
01:45:44,000 --> 01:45:47,800
that the atonement was just as
important as the fall.

1587
01:45:48,400 --> 01:45:51,920
And I agree with that.
And I'm going to make another

1588
01:45:51,920 --> 01:45:56,000
bold statement here.
We should just like we fall to

1589
01:45:56,000 --> 01:46:00,320
our knees and thank God for the
atonement every day, we need

1590
01:46:00,320 --> 01:46:04,640
likewise to fall to our knees
and thank God for the fall every

1591
01:46:04,640 --> 01:46:07,640
day.
Because without it, we're not

1592
01:46:07,640 --> 01:46:12,240
here and we don't have the
opportunity to grow and to learn

1593
01:46:12,240 --> 01:46:16,000
and to take our lumps and to
experience the beauty that is

1594
01:46:16,000 --> 01:46:21,800
life and a sense of joy, knowing
that it all has a purpose.

1595
01:46:22,320 --> 01:46:25,680
And so what's the importance of
these things?

1596
01:46:25,720 --> 01:46:29,320
It's the importance is you know
that God loves you.

1597
01:46:29,320 --> 01:46:31,800
And that's where real
relationship starts.

1598
01:46:32,640 --> 01:46:37,280
And you want a relationship, you
need to know the qualities of

1599
01:46:37,280 --> 01:46:39,680
the person you want to have that
relationship with.

1600
01:46:40,160 --> 01:46:46,560
And by necessity, God cannot be
a creature that is so foreign

1601
01:46:46,560 --> 01:46:53,080
that he cannot be comprehended.
I can't think of a father who

1602
01:46:53,080 --> 01:46:55,880
doesn't want their sons and
their daughters at some level to

1603
01:46:55,880 --> 01:46:59,480
comprehend them at least to the
point that they loved them so

1604
01:46:59,480 --> 01:47:03,640
much that they would sacrifice
any and everything for them.

1605
01:47:04,400 --> 01:47:07,920
And I'll, I'll hang it up right
there and, and let you close

1606
01:47:07,920 --> 01:47:13,800
this out here, bro.
Yeah, so I, I hinted at it at

1607
01:47:13,800 --> 01:47:21,120
the beginning, but so I've been
working on some songs and, you

1608
01:47:21,120 --> 01:47:25,560
know, I'm, I do most of the
music compositional and, and,

1609
01:47:25,560 --> 01:47:27,480
and recording performances and
stuff.

1610
01:47:27,840 --> 01:47:31,680
Justin Frankham, who's a good
friend of both of ours.

1611
01:47:32,320 --> 01:47:36,440
He is kind of a poet and he's
been, he's the lyricist and, you

1612
01:47:36,440 --> 01:47:38,600
know, we've been writing music
together for a long time.

1613
01:47:38,600 --> 01:47:41,280
We we got busy, we got married
and started having a bunch of

1614
01:47:41,280 --> 01:47:42,880
kids.
And so it's been a while since

1615
01:47:42,880 --> 01:47:47,400
we've really collaborated, but,
but this is something that I

1616
01:47:47,400 --> 01:47:54,280
wanted to, rather than just like
talk about scriptures, I wanted

1617
01:47:54,280 --> 01:47:58,240
to really do it justice in a, in
a feelings way.

1618
01:47:58,680 --> 01:48:01,680
And, and nothing, music is the
universal language.

1619
01:48:01,680 --> 01:48:05,240
People can feel the spirit,
whether it's in spoken in, you

1620
01:48:05,240 --> 01:48:07,760
know, Chinese or Dutch or who
cares?

1621
01:48:07,800 --> 01:48:11,560
Like that is a, is a universal
language everyone can

1622
01:48:11,560 --> 01:48:17,840
understand.
And and so for that reason, this

1623
01:48:17,840 --> 01:48:21,880
is a super rough thing.
I've only recorded on my phone.

1624
01:48:21,880 --> 01:48:24,200
It's just like the it's
basically more in the

1625
01:48:24,200 --> 01:48:30,480
compositional stage, but I'd
like to maybe share one song on

1626
01:48:30,480 --> 01:48:34,160
on Michael Adam.
So the in the song it's it's

1627
01:48:34,160 --> 01:48:36,760
kind of a working title.
It's a Michael the Prince.

1628
01:48:37,680 --> 01:48:40,480
Cool.
OK, tell me if you can hear

1629
01:48:40,480 --> 01:53:08,880
this.
RO that was awesome.

1630
01:53:09,440 --> 01:53:12,000
So you wrote the music and then
Justin wrote the lyrics?

1631
01:53:12,240 --> 01:53:16,640
Yeah, so I, I, I wrote the piano
part and then the melody, and

1632
01:53:16,640 --> 01:53:20,880
then Justin wrote the lyrics and
yeah, we're actually, we're,

1633
01:53:21,000 --> 01:53:25,000
we're writing a whole album.
So that's track to Michael the

1634
01:53:25,000 --> 01:53:28,000
Prince.
Then the next one's going to be

1635
01:53:28,160 --> 01:53:33,000
a a song sung from Michael's
perspective about his wife Eve.

1636
01:53:33,560 --> 01:53:37,960
And then we've actually got a a
female vocalist that's going to

1637
01:53:37,960 --> 01:53:42,280
be participating, contributing
to Sing Eve's song, which is

1638
01:53:42,280 --> 01:53:45,960
kind of a re imagination of for
the beauty of the Earth.

1639
01:53:47,080 --> 01:53:51,760
Nice.
And and then then we're going to

1640
01:53:52,160 --> 01:53:56,360
kind of go into the garden, tell
that story, but from a, from a,

1641
01:53:56,360 --> 01:53:58,800
a fullness of the gospel
perspective.

1642
01:53:58,800 --> 01:54:03,160
And anyway, it's awesome.
It's kind of ambitious, but and

1643
01:54:03,160 --> 01:54:06,320
forgive the poor audio quality.
You could probably hear my kids

1644
01:54:06,320 --> 01:54:09,440
in the background and some
dishes clanking because I was

1645
01:54:09,440 --> 01:54:11,040
just recording it on my phone.
But.

1646
01:54:11,040 --> 01:54:13,320
Tells me it's Mormon.
Yeah, I mean, right.

1647
01:54:14,720 --> 01:54:17,440
Yeah, there's really.
It's hard to find a quiet place

1648
01:54:17,440 --> 01:54:18,920
in my house.
We got 8.

1649
01:54:18,920 --> 01:54:19,640
Kids.
No, I get it.

1650
01:54:19,840 --> 01:54:21,600
I get it.
No, dude, that was, that was

1651
01:54:21,600 --> 01:54:23,800
awesome.
That, that was great.

1652
01:54:23,800 --> 01:54:25,600
Keep it.
Keep me informed on how that's

1653
01:54:25,640 --> 01:54:28,040
going so I can let others know
because I imagine there's quite

1654
01:54:28,040 --> 01:54:31,400
a few people that would like to
like to put their hands on that

1655
01:54:31,400 --> 01:54:33,240
when you guys are done.
Yeah.

1656
01:54:33,240 --> 01:54:36,160
And the plan is we're going to
just make it available for free,

1657
01:54:36,480 --> 01:54:39,080
but with like a tip jar if
anybody wants to contribute to

1658
01:54:39,080 --> 01:54:43,880
this and maybe future projects.
But so Justin and I, we actually

1659
01:54:43,960 --> 01:54:48,440
wrote out an album when we were
kind of in college about more

1660
01:54:48,440 --> 01:54:50,840
like freedom, constitutional
type of stuff.

1661
01:54:51,320 --> 01:54:55,920
And so this is not our first
musical project that we've

1662
01:54:55,920 --> 01:55:01,600
worked on together and but it's
been a lot of years, so.

1663
01:55:01,600 --> 01:55:05,160
Been a minute.
Yeah, well, no, it sounded good,

1664
01:55:05,160 --> 01:55:06,760
dude.
I'm excited to hear the rest of

1665
01:55:06,760 --> 01:55:09,800
them.
So yeah, I'll, I'll keep you

1666
01:55:09,800 --> 01:55:11,800
posted.
Probably the end of the year

1667
01:55:11,800 --> 01:55:14,920
ish, OK.
It's kind of the tentative

1668
01:55:15,360 --> 01:55:18,840
schedule that we're planning on.
But yeah, like I say, it'll be

1669
01:55:18,840 --> 01:55:21,960
available for free.
In fact, I'm, I'm also writing

1670
01:55:21,960 --> 01:55:25,000
out the music, like the score,
so like the sheet music.

1671
01:55:25,360 --> 01:55:28,560
So if anybody was interested in
that, because I'd like to make

1672
01:55:28,560 --> 01:55:32,440
this available to anyone and
everyone that is interested in

1673
01:55:32,880 --> 01:55:36,160
even doing it yourself, you
know, make a make a road show

1674
01:55:36,160 --> 01:55:39,120
out of it.
Bring back bring back Rd. shows.

1675
01:55:40,000 --> 01:55:42,520
Make Rd. shows great again.
Make Rd. shows great again.

1676
01:55:43,400 --> 01:55:44,240
No.
Awesome.

1677
01:55:44,800 --> 01:55:47,360
Well dude, that was good stuff.
Anything else you want to say

1678
01:55:47,360 --> 01:55:51,440
before we wrap this up?
Just my testimony, which is

1679
01:55:51,840 --> 01:55:59,840
that, you know, God doesn't need
us to believe in him, but if we

1680
01:55:59,840 --> 01:56:05,840
can overcome our traditions, if
we can catch a glimpse of his

1681
01:56:05,840 --> 01:56:10,000
and her, you know, because God
is both mother and father and

1682
01:56:10,000 --> 01:56:14,440
their divinity and, and beauty
and love for us and just their

1683
01:56:14,440 --> 01:56:18,200
power and strength.
Like all of these things that

1684
01:56:18,360 --> 01:56:23,280
that it will enrich your life
and it, it will help as we're

1685
01:56:23,280 --> 01:56:26,040
striving to build a relationship
because that's really what the

1686
01:56:26,040 --> 01:56:29,680
gospel is all about is being in
relationship with God.

1687
01:56:29,680 --> 01:56:37,480
And, and, and so, but it's hard
to build a like real, solid,

1688
01:56:37,920 --> 01:56:39,960
meaningful relationship with a
stranger.

1689
01:56:40,760 --> 01:56:44,960
And it, when you make friends
with God, that's, that's, that's

1690
01:56:44,960 --> 01:56:48,200
a good step.
But I tell you what, when you

1691
01:56:48,200 --> 01:56:53,840
realize that he's your grandpa,
it's, it's in the next level.

1692
01:56:54,160 --> 01:56:57,720
It truly is.
And so that's just my, my

1693
01:56:57,720 --> 01:57:01,680
parting testimony.
This has greatly enriched my

1694
01:57:01,680 --> 01:57:06,880
life and made my my relationship
with my heavenly parents far

1695
01:57:06,880 --> 01:57:11,080
more immediate and real.
And so I just invite anybody

1696
01:57:11,080 --> 01:57:15,040
else that maybe is on the fence
or, you know, struggles with

1697
01:57:15,040 --> 01:57:16,440
these.
Maybe you were taught them as

1698
01:57:16,440 --> 01:57:19,120
kids if you come from a
fundamentalist background, but

1699
01:57:19,400 --> 01:57:21,960
but maybe it's not something
that you've clung to throughout

1700
01:57:21,960 --> 01:57:24,800
your life.
Give it another look.

1701
01:57:25,320 --> 01:57:30,640
If you're coming from the LDS
church perspective like I did, I

1702
01:57:30,640 --> 01:57:36,120
understand this is foreign, but
that doesn't mean it's wrong.

1703
01:57:38,280 --> 01:57:41,040
And and it's, it's beautiful and
it's powerful.

1704
01:57:41,400 --> 01:57:44,600
So hopefully, maybe I was, I was
hoping maybe the music could

1705
01:57:44,920 --> 01:57:49,280
convey some of that spirit as
well it.

1706
01:57:49,400 --> 01:57:51,480
Absolutely did.
Well, dude, that was awesome.

1707
01:57:51,920 --> 01:57:54,120
We'll do it again.
All right, deal.

1708
01:57:54,120 --> 01:57:55,560
All right, hang tight. 5
minutes.

1709
01:57:55,560 --> 01:57:57,080
Thanks.
See you, everybody.

1710
01:57:57,240 --> 01:57:57,600
Bye.