Episode #64: Recollections Of Rulon C Allred W/C.W. Orison

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You're listening to the Mormon
Renegade podcast.

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Here's the unfortunate truth
right now as fundamentalists and

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traditional LDS folks, we can't
expect to have accurate history

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told by others because true
history and scholarship is

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problematic for certain people.
And organizations, we're going

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to have to do this work
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will have to support each other
in this kind of work.

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Now, anybody who's anybody in
fundamentalist, circles knows

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who drew Briny is, he is,
perhaps the most, Prolific

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author within Mormon
fundamentalism.

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Drew's newest project is
something.

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I think all Mormons can benefit
from he is in the process of

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creating an annotated version of
the Doctrine and Covenants.

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Once you have a copy of this,
you will be able to compare

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current sections with previous
versions.

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And also what early LDS leaders
had to say about that particular

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section as fundamentalists and
traditional LDS.

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Folks, we are constantly trying
to get back into the minds of

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the early brethren this project
that Drew's engaged in right now

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is going to be the ultimate tool
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Now because this annotated
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Covenants is such a massive
undertaking, Drew needs some

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help from others, Drew's plan
for getting this annotated

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version of the Doctrine and
Covenants out is through

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crowdfunding the link for that
will be out April 4th if you

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want more details sooner, go to
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messaging from there and he'll
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on Saturday.
April 8, I'll be Leasing an

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episode that talks about this
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humbly ask that you reach out to
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that will help Advance the
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the restored gospel because of
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Last year, I was able to buy
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software.
I can't tell you how much it

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meant to me.
That not only did you spend your

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time here with me on the podcast
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value.
And what I'm doing that you

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donated Did the podcast upgraded
this year I want to continue to

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grow.
Now I want to add video to the

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podcast, continue to help you my
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The other feature I'm working on

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for this podcast, is something I
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now.
But what I can say is that it's

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something that will help us
better connect as fundamentalist

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and traditional LDS.
Folks, now to get that equipment

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for the video content, I want to
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infrastructure for the A project
with this podcast donations

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would certainly be welcome or
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Renegade.com, click that supply
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either of those two things, I
totally get it.

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Maybe just keep the podcasting
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blessed with those resources.
Again, thank you for everything

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you do as well as for listening
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What worsen how you doing?
I'm doing super, I can't tell

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you how excited I am for this
conversation.

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We within the gospel, I think,
and rightfully so we focus on

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chose stuff and Brigham and and
we should focus their.

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But sometimes I feel like these
early fundamentalist Brethren

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don't get some of the their
credit that's do.

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Because they really kept the
god, the gospel in its fullness

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alive in a time when it could
have easily have just just been

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watered down and gone away.
So the fact, you and I get to

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sit down here and have a
conversation about ruin already.

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I think is just absolutely
amazing.

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Now you you knew ruin
personally, right?

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Very very personally.
Yes how long patient's?

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Oh wow.
How long did you know him for

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From 1964.
Wow.

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Wow, that's, that's quite a long
time, and he was assassinated in

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what year, again by 1977 77.
So you knew him for, for the

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better part of 13 years, almost
14 years, they even came to me a

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couple times after he passed
away and talked with me, who

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will want to get that story
later on for sure.

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So, when was the first time you
met ruin already?

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Gloria Dawn, and I Road with her
parents from Richmond.

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Utah to my best recollection in
1964 and he was conducting a

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meeting there in Murray and Owen
allred's think was a five car

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garage but it was set up so that
people can that's the first time

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we met him.
What was your first thoughts as

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you met him, right?
It's one thing to hear about a

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guy but it's another thing to
actually meet that individual.

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If we look at it at some
accounts of Joseph Smith, people

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would hear about the Prophet
Joseph and they would just

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immediately for whatever reason,
their minds went to a guy who

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would maybe look like Moses or
you know an Old Testament

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prophet and then they Were kind
of taken aback at first when

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they met Joseph because he
didn't look like that.

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He didn't quote fit that mold.
What was your?

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Did you know about ruin all read
before?

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You went to this meeting, had
you heard about him?

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I had heard just because we've
been studying about the fullness

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for several months because of
Gerald senior and bake Peterson.

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But when when we went to the
meeting, I was very nervous.

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And as we set at into the
building, I was just questioning

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how in the world.
Could you be living plural

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marriage in this day and age?
My focus wasn't on him as an

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individual.
My focus was on how in the world

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could this be done and then sham
Jessup.

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And two wives sat right in front
of us. and once they sat in

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front of us, the spirit of God
came over me and said, yes, it

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can be done this day and age so
we didn't meeting personally.

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I mean we met him but we met 50,
60, 70 other people.

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It was a shotgun of meetings and
so I wasn't really focused on

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him any more than I was anybody
else because he had other

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people's talk.
Not just he himself talk.

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When you first heard him talk,
what was your year, remember,

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having an impression or thoughts
or anything like that?

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My mind was just anxious to know
what the truth was and how all

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of this fit with the church.
And the priesthood.

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I I mean there was a very
positive feeling but I was still

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in the inquiring stages I had
not had a witness that he held

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the keys nor did my wife Gloria
Dawn.

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But we did have a witness of the
principal Okay.

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Alright, so, so you gained kind
of a testimony of plural,

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marriage, and then off of that,
you started to investigate, what

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I assume would be, the AUB at
this point.

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Is that correct or incorrect?
That is correct that it wasn't

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called the AUB at that time.
That was a name that was taken

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up a number of years later.
But it was called the Allred

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group, of course, is the
priesthood just within about a

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lock and a half.
There was other meetings by

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other fundamentalist
organizations by Guy Messer.

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So there was then all over but
Anyway you go right ahead.

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No no you're just fine.
I just enjoy hearing about this

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this sort of stuff and more of
you and less of me is always a

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good thing Orson.
So when when was the first time

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you met him face-to-face, The
first time we really met him.

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Meaning one on one we had had a
and I will just do a

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generalization on this.
Sure, Gloria Don and I within

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two weeks of being married
prayed about a lot of things,

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and we prayed about how God
manages, many different things.

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And what he's will was and one
night, we got an answer.

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And I won't go into the full
detail.

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But other than to say, the
answer came yes, my daughter and

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only in this way.
Can plural marriage, be lived,

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righteously, which shocked us.
So we asked her dad, which was

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on the high counsel the
following week what he knew

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about this.
He didn't answer our question

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but he directed it to the
answer.

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And that was only in this way.
Can plural marriage?

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Be lived righteously.
He handed us lot of booked.

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Well, so when we went to the
meetings, we decided we are

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going to ask this man that very
question.

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So we asked for audience, we
asked him the question.

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And he very graciously said,
well, that would be wonderful.

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The Lord bless you if that's
what you'd like to do.

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So he had to leave within a few
days.

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He calls Gerald senior and said,
I've done wrong with those kids.

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I need to have them come back.
So we came back and he sat down

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and he gave detail after detail
after detail.

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He said, here's the rules.
Here's the laws.

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This is what Joseph Smith was
instructed by the Savior and all

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the key holders of taught this
So, from that point on, we had

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an open door to go and talk with
him.

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I remember one time, he, he and
I, and Gloria to Dawn, where the

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back of a car riding to a
wedding reception and this is

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before we ever moved to Montana,
and Gloria Dawn being Forgive me

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if I cry, you're fine.
Psychic said, brother ruling.

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You're in pain, aren't you?
And he said yes my dear.

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I have a bleeding ulcer.
And it's always plaguing me.

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We got into many things,
privately that we talked about

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that many times.
He said you, you can't talk

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about this outside of my
presence, but I'm only doing

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this because somehow the Lord
has caused you to be curious and

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wanting to know these truths
when we move to Montana, and

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that was remembers 1965.
We moved right next door to his

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family.
One of these families, and her

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name was Ethel.
Now we were young kids and I,

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you know, no matter what, when
you put a lot of people

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together, there's going to be
armpit relationships.

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It's explain what an armpit
relationship is for.

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Anyone who doesn't know, well,
it hasn't come up with this

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shit.
We'll have to talk to him.

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Start becoming familiar with
their weaknesses, and

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shortcomings familiarity breeds
contempt.

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However, with the highest level
of Charity, that doesn't matter.

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The love increases.
Anyway, so he gave instructions

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to his wife.
Ethel, keep an eye on those kids

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have them over often and we were
full of questions.

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Oh, by the by this time, when we
moved to Montana, we both had a

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witness that he held the keys so
we did not do a lot until I mean

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we attended meetings but we were
not asked to be engaged in

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things until we kill.
We had a witness and I'm going

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to back up, I'm going to back
up. okay, we were We were so

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anxious to learn and every time
he talked, we were living in the

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top of a an up-or-down house.
And we have been studying a lot

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in studying law.
This excited about everything we

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were learning.
And glorious dad said my dears.

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You've got to ask who holds the
keys just understanding always

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sings.
There's many people.

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Yes, just knowing this knowledge
is valuable, but you got to know

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who holds the key.
So we got serious about well,

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who holds the keys, and Gloria
Don.

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Gloria Don.
All of a sudden, had a light.

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Coming down the hall.
And it scared the heck out of

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her.
This light was coming down the

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hall.
She got under the covers and

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then she felt very comfortable
and she looked again and then in

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this, like there was a book and
the book opened up and there was

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page after page after page of
ladies, and then it came to a

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blank set of pages.
And in the very, very center of

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the pages of the crease of the
book.

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It's open.
There was a little teeny square

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and she kept looking in the
Square, got bigger and bigger

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and bigger bigger.
And it was a picture of her

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colon and then she heard a boy
say this man is Approved of god.

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Wow.
So before you guys moved to

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Montana, you had a very profound
witness that ruin already held

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the keys.
Absolutely.

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I mean Heavenly scent Vision to
instill, this idea that it was

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ruined that held the keys.
That is correct.

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Absolutely.
Wow.

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We're perfect.
But God made very clear.

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Sure to give us that witness and
Gerald Peterson was absolutely

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right.
It's absolutely essential.

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Wow.
So before we go forward with

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your story on in Montana, I want
to ask you some background

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information that you may or may
not know.

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And it's fine either way if you
do or if you don't but where Was

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Reuben.
Born was he born here in Utah?

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You know, I can't remember if it
was Mexico just before or if it

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was in Idaho, okay?
But he was the son of the second

226
00:17:21,300 --> 00:17:26,900
wife.
And they were really trying to

227
00:17:26,900 --> 00:17:32,200
keep hit out during that period
of time, but the first wife

228
00:17:32,200 --> 00:17:36,500
died.
So then his father gathered

229
00:17:36,500 --> 00:17:39,000
together, all the family and the
second wife.

230
00:17:39,000 --> 00:17:41,600
Now, raise the children of the
first, why?

231
00:17:42,300 --> 00:17:46,900
And they spent a lot of time in
Idaho, Dan.

232
00:17:47,400 --> 00:17:53,700
He his father ended up being in
Congress in in the auto place

233
00:17:54,500 --> 00:17:59,000
and then he ended up going up
into Canada.

234
00:18:00,300 --> 00:18:03,500
They lived in can occur one or
two years and they came back

235
00:18:03,500 --> 00:18:05,300
down and lived in the Boise
area.

236
00:18:05,900 --> 00:18:08,600
During all this period of time,
they were trying to be very

237
00:18:08,600 --> 00:18:14,800
careful in exposing anybody that
was living p.m. because they

238
00:18:14,800 --> 00:18:19,600
were putting him in jail,
creating a lots and lots of

239
00:18:19,600 --> 00:18:25,700
trouble brother ruling ruling
decided.

240
00:18:26,400 --> 00:18:31,000
He was going to be a doctor and
he decided that he was going to

241
00:18:31,000 --> 00:18:36,600
be extremely active in the
church that he was not that

242
00:18:36,600 --> 00:18:41,300
interested in plural marriage.
Plural, marriage was not being

243
00:18:41,300 --> 00:18:46,900
talked about, they tried not to
talk about it and I know that

244
00:18:46,900 --> 00:18:51,100
sounds contradictory but they
tried not to because of all the

245
00:18:51,100 --> 00:18:54,600
legal actions and the people
were trying to from the

246
00:18:54,600 --> 00:18:57,400
government and and even people
People in the church.

247
00:18:57,900 --> 00:19:03,800
So he ends up going to
California to get a medical

248
00:19:03,800 --> 00:19:07,500
degree as of nature path by the
way.

249
00:19:07,500 --> 00:19:11,400
He passed a lot of tests that
would would have given him other

250
00:19:12,100 --> 00:19:14,800
licenses besides being in nature
path.

251
00:19:14,800 --> 00:19:18,300
But he stayed with nature path
because it felt more like what

252
00:19:18,300 --> 00:19:22,400
he wanted and represent his
feeling his father.

253
00:19:23,900 --> 00:19:28,100
Bayern Harvey.
Allred was given by the Lord,

254
00:19:28,100 --> 00:19:31,300
and I think Joseph must have
says you need to check with you

255
00:19:31,300 --> 00:19:34,000
need to work with your son
ruling.

256
00:19:34,600 --> 00:19:38,900
Well, real and decided.
Well I am going to convert my

257
00:19:38,900 --> 00:19:40,500
dad.
Back to the church.

258
00:19:40,500 --> 00:19:43,600
He's a good man.
My mother's a good woman.

259
00:19:44,100 --> 00:19:46,500
There's no sense that are not in
the church.

260
00:19:47,300 --> 00:19:52,400
So he gathers all of his his
doctor mental.

261
00:19:53,200 --> 00:19:55,700
Ammunition.
Then he comes up, and he says

262
00:19:55,700 --> 00:19:58,700
Dad.
You promise you, let me go

263
00:19:58,700 --> 00:20:02,400
through all this because I want
you back in the church, his

264
00:20:02,400 --> 00:20:07,800
dad's okay, son, you go for it,
long periods of time.

265
00:20:07,800 --> 00:20:10,100
Long periods of time when he got
through.

266
00:20:11,300 --> 00:20:14,500
His father had made notes on
everything that had been talking

267
00:20:14,500 --> 00:20:19,800
basis.
Okay, ruling my dear son, we're

268
00:20:19,800 --> 00:20:22,700
going to go on this.
We're going to ask the Lord help

269
00:20:22,700 --> 00:20:29,300
this to come over before long
ruin blue, just my dad blew.

270
00:20:29,300 --> 00:20:33,800
My mind.
He wasn't as free to go into all

271
00:20:33,800 --> 00:20:39,300
of this because they're the
legal problems were so, so

272
00:20:39,300 --> 00:20:42,500
hectic.
And then He just, oh, my word.

273
00:20:43,000 --> 00:20:47,200
It's right.
So then he's He's back in

274
00:20:47,200 --> 00:20:51,800
California trying to tell his
wife paid my dad's right?

275
00:20:52,400 --> 00:20:57,600
The church is still the Church
of Jesus Christ, but they are

276
00:20:57,600 --> 00:21:01,600
not doing everything and if you
and I want to be married for

277
00:21:01,600 --> 00:21:07,700
eternity, we've got an advanced.
She didn't go for it, she

278
00:21:07,700 --> 00:21:12,200
fluttered back and forth.
She finally divorced him.

279
00:21:14,900 --> 00:21:20,400
He came back and forth numerous
times to Utah when he finally

280
00:21:20,400 --> 00:21:28,000
got his degree. and, Now I've
covered some of the area.

281
00:21:28,000 --> 00:21:30,700
Do I need to go back?
You want more detail of the

282
00:21:30,700 --> 00:21:33,200
back?
I just got a few more questions

283
00:21:33,200 --> 00:21:39,700
is all here Orson.
So he's born in 1906 and it

284
00:21:39,700 --> 00:21:42,000
sounds like he's born down in
the colonies.

285
00:21:42,000 --> 00:21:45,900
Right.
So he this this is at that time

286
00:21:45,900 --> 00:21:50,800
in history within the LDS church
where They basically have said

287
00:21:50,800 --> 00:21:54,300
yes we've abandoned polygamy
publicly, but they're setting up

288
00:21:54,300 --> 00:21:57,800
colonies in different areas for
plural marriage to still be

289
00:21:57,800 --> 00:22:01,200
lived.
So he's really born right in the

290
00:22:01,200 --> 00:22:05,700
thick of this transition.
So to speak within the church

291
00:22:06,000 --> 00:22:10,500
where where where they're the
the modern church.

292
00:22:10,500 --> 00:22:13,100
So to speak that we know of
today, the LDS church is

293
00:22:13,100 --> 00:22:17,300
beginning to come forth out of
those Fundamentalist.

294
00:22:19,600 --> 00:22:22,800
Or I should say early church
teachings.

295
00:22:23,200 --> 00:22:28,600
So I feel like he's got, he's
born into an exceptional time

296
00:22:28,600 --> 00:22:35,200
within within restoration and
history so you covered all that

297
00:22:35,200 --> 00:22:39,100
time there.
When is it that ruin himself?

298
00:22:39,100 --> 00:22:42,000
Gets the keys of the priesthood
and who did he get those from?

299
00:22:42,400 --> 00:22:45,700
Oh, that's a lot to detail.
So I'm just going to give you

300
00:22:45,700 --> 00:22:51,300
the generalities, okay?
After a real and had come back

301
00:22:51,300 --> 00:22:55,100
up.
And he was established, he had

302
00:22:55,100 --> 00:23:01,700
like at this time I think for
wides which that came into his

303
00:23:01,700 --> 00:23:08,000
family very quickly.
He-he's, very well educated.

304
00:23:09,200 --> 00:23:11,700
There isn't a subject you could
talk about that.

305
00:23:11,700 --> 00:23:17,400
He didn't understand very
clearly skillful Joseph.

306
00:23:17,400 --> 00:23:21,700
Mauser had a lot of problems in
trying to keep track of Records.

307
00:23:22,500 --> 00:23:25,500
Charles sitting being one of the
council there.

308
00:23:26,000 --> 00:23:30,300
There was ruined Jeff, several
others in the council that we're

309
00:23:30,300 --> 00:23:34,400
not taking care of them and so
he finally asked Grill and

310
00:23:34,500 --> 00:23:37,200
You'll come and start taking
care of these records.

311
00:23:38,100 --> 00:23:42,700
Well, this got some resistance
by some of the Brethren that

312
00:23:42,700 --> 00:23:46,600
really got the resistance when
in a very short period of time.

313
00:23:46,600 --> 00:23:50,000
He had it all taken care of
which was a little bit

314
00:23:50,000 --> 00:23:52,200
overwhelming.
How did he get this all done so

315
00:23:52,200 --> 00:24:01,000
quickly?
There was words at first and I'm

316
00:24:01,000 --> 00:24:07,300
quoting Joseph Mauser.
Now the line of the seniority

317
00:24:07,700 --> 00:24:12,300
you normally take.
He whoever is a senior to set

318
00:24:12,300 --> 00:24:18,800
him not to have the keys as the
Second brother in the Elder of

319
00:24:18,800 --> 00:24:22,200
the priesthood.
And, of course, at that time

320
00:24:22,200 --> 00:24:26,100
would have been Charles City.
However, there's another part of

321
00:24:26,108 --> 00:24:30,900
the law and that is, if you have
a son that's worthy in that

322
00:24:30,900 --> 00:24:34,800
Council.
He is also eligible for that

323
00:24:34,800 --> 00:24:39,400
position and Joseph.
Mauser heart was I would just

324
00:24:39,400 --> 00:24:43,600
love to have my son because I
know my days are getting further

325
00:24:43,600 --> 00:24:47,600
down and further down.
But then the Are just kept

326
00:24:47,600 --> 00:24:51,700
telling him.
To talk to rule and but at the

327
00:24:51,700 --> 00:24:55,100
same time he was realizing.
Wow.

328
00:24:55,100 --> 00:25:00,400
Just the little, I've had ruling
do, the council has been getting

329
00:25:00,400 --> 00:25:03,900
pretty upset.
I've got to just work with this,

330
00:25:04,400 --> 00:25:09,300
so he tried to incorporate
ruling to do more things, and he

331
00:25:09,300 --> 00:25:11,600
still had not been couldn't on
the council.

332
00:25:12,800 --> 00:25:15,000
But he was still wanting him to
do more things.

333
00:25:15,200 --> 00:25:23,600
Now, he was a Doctor, Joseph.
Mauser had a Oh, the words.

334
00:25:23,600 --> 00:25:27,000
Totally lost.
Where you lose control of

335
00:25:27,000 --> 00:25:30,700
certain functions in your your
body?

336
00:25:31,700 --> 00:25:35,900
Okay, I can't remember the term.
It's a very common term but I

337
00:25:35,900 --> 00:25:40,400
just can't remember right now
but it was it had nothing to do

338
00:25:40,400 --> 00:25:43,200
with reasoning.
It only had to do with the

339
00:25:43,200 --> 00:25:46,100
coordination, have his physical
body.

340
00:25:47,300 --> 00:25:49,900
Okay.
It's called numerous times to

341
00:25:49,900 --> 00:25:52,500
come help him.
The couch will become more and

342
00:25:52,500 --> 00:26:04,100
more.
Brother Orson, I think I lost

343
00:26:04,100 --> 00:26:10,000
you again.
Once again there's a lot of

344
00:26:10,000 --> 00:26:14,700
details but the generalities is
it was very clearly made known

345
00:26:14,700 --> 00:26:17,700
to him.
In the midst of this ruling is

346
00:26:17,700 --> 00:26:20,300
to be the one you set apart to
hold the keys.

347
00:26:21,000 --> 00:26:24,200
But he's trying to do this in a
way so he doesn't lose all the

348
00:26:24,200 --> 00:26:33,100
people.
So it wasn't at one point boy

349
00:26:33,300 --> 00:26:36,700
all of the people which
eventually it almost What did

350
00:26:37,800 --> 00:26:43,600
Brother it finally gets to the
point that he's wanting to let

351
00:26:43,600 --> 00:26:47,600
them know that he wants ruling
to be in the council, he's

352
00:26:47,600 --> 00:26:50,900
hoping they will accept that.
God's hoping they will accept

353
00:26:50,900 --> 00:26:55,700
that, but they won't accept it.
And so there's two or three

354
00:26:55,700 --> 00:26:58,200
other issues that are taking
place.

355
00:26:58,200 --> 00:27:02,400
Some things in Colorado City
that are taking place, that

356
00:27:02,400 --> 00:27:08,400
shouldn't be taking place.
And he actually sends him down

357
00:27:08,500 --> 00:27:12,900
and another brother down to
Colorado City.

358
00:27:14,300 --> 00:27:19,100
To investigate finding out.
There's too many men down there

359
00:27:19,100 --> 00:27:25,000
that are making contracts with
other men for wives allowing.

360
00:27:25,400 --> 00:27:29,300
Not Joseph's Master doesn't even
know about it and sometimes

361
00:27:29,300 --> 00:27:34,000
there's some ceilings take
place, Lyman Jessup, although

362
00:27:34,000 --> 00:27:38,000
all of a sudden finds out his
daughters, married goes to

363
00:27:38,000 --> 00:27:40,800
Joseph Muslim says, how come
what's going on?

364
00:27:40,800 --> 00:27:43,200
He's at the my word go down
there.

365
00:27:43,400 --> 00:27:46,300
And get her out there.
I never gave that permission the

366
00:27:46,300 --> 00:27:50,800
Lord's, never sanctioned it.
So lots and lots of friction

367
00:27:50,800 --> 00:27:54,000
until finally, Joseph Meister
says Brethren.

368
00:27:54,600 --> 00:28:01,500
We've got to live the We're
starting to come up with all of

369
00:28:01,500 --> 00:28:04,500
our own imagination.
We've got to go back to Joseph

370
00:28:04,500 --> 00:28:08,800
Smith, and the rules and the
regulations the principal well,

371
00:28:08,800 --> 00:28:14,200
they re only one man accepted
ruined to be in the council,

372
00:28:14,600 --> 00:28:17,300
which one I can't.
Remember this point at the very

373
00:28:17,300 --> 00:28:24,000
beginning to many of them in
factors, two or three times that

374
00:28:24,100 --> 00:28:27,200
and I've read and I don't know
if I've given them to you, but

375
00:28:27,200 --> 00:28:33,300
there is a nymph In a review
that brother ruling goes through

376
00:28:33,600 --> 00:28:36,600
in the 70s class.
And I need to give that to you,

377
00:28:37,600 --> 00:28:40,400
where he talks about all of the
transitions.

378
00:28:40,400 --> 00:28:43,200
All the friction.
But there was a time that

379
00:28:43,200 --> 00:28:49,000
cerebellum Said they would be
willing to kill ruin that, he

380
00:28:49,000 --> 00:28:53,500
had not come in and do all this.
He's taking advantage of shows

381
00:28:53,500 --> 00:29:00,400
of my sir.
So, finally ruling not only set

382
00:29:00,400 --> 00:29:04,200
him apart with the keys, but he
called in others.

383
00:29:04,200 --> 00:29:06,700
And he told him you get others
to come in.

384
00:29:07,900 --> 00:29:12,000
You're dealing with Owen, you're
dealing with Marvin, Allred.

385
00:29:12,000 --> 00:29:15,400
You're dealing with form,
Lavery, you're dealing with With

386
00:29:16,100 --> 00:29:19,700
Joseph Thompson.
And I can't remember if there

387
00:29:19,700 --> 00:29:22,400
was another one right now, the
top of my head.

388
00:29:23,300 --> 00:29:31,000
So it was a very heartbreaking
transition and probably 3/4 of

389
00:29:31,000 --> 00:29:39,300
the people, totally left.
The messrs were a minority of

390
00:29:39,300 --> 00:29:43,700
the numbers of people.
Jessup's and Jensen's and

391
00:29:43,700 --> 00:29:46,700
Johnson's.
Who are the majority people?

392
00:29:48,300 --> 00:29:53,900
And so at that point, Colorado
City just more or less said

393
00:29:53,900 --> 00:29:58,200
Joseph Mauser ruling all red, go
jump in the lake.

394
00:29:58,300 --> 00:30:01,600
We are going to be in charge
here, you have nothing to say,

395
00:30:02,400 --> 00:30:06,900
want to make know when Colorado
city was set up, it was sit up

396
00:30:06,900 --> 00:30:13,100
honorably under the direction of
Joseph, Mauser with John Wayne

397
00:30:13,100 --> 00:30:18,600
barlowe.
But then it totally went, it.

398
00:30:18,600 --> 00:30:21,900
Totally went to some other
entity.

399
00:30:24,100 --> 00:30:26,900
Wow.
Wow, it's so fascinating to

400
00:30:26,900 --> 00:30:29,800
learn about this history and
this is one of the reasons I

401
00:30:29,800 --> 00:30:33,900
wanted to talk about ruin all
red because his shadow Still

402
00:30:33,900 --> 00:30:36,700
Remains and and Iommi shadow in
a bad way.

403
00:30:38,500 --> 00:30:42,100
Basically anybody a lot, I
shouldn't say everybody, but a

404
00:30:42,100 --> 00:30:45,800
good portion of fundamentalist
can trace their priesthood

405
00:30:45,800 --> 00:30:50,400
lineage right back to ruin
already at some point.

406
00:30:53,700 --> 00:30:59,300
And it's super important that we
be able to to get a sense of who

407
00:30:59,300 --> 00:31:03,000
this man was.
So I'm loving this a lot.

408
00:31:06,000 --> 00:31:09,200
Well, I would like to tell you
about his personality.

409
00:31:09,500 --> 00:31:16,900
Yes, his principal.
Gerald Peterson.

410
00:31:18,600 --> 00:31:23,000
Had been getting.
Revelation from the time he was

411
00:31:23,000 --> 00:31:28,900
about 21 until we was 41 that he
would be living plural marriage.

412
00:31:28,900 --> 00:31:32,100
But he was to stay in the church
at approximately.

413
00:31:32,100 --> 00:31:37,800
The age 41.
He was told I will now reveal to

414
00:31:37,800 --> 00:31:39,600
you.
He holds the keys of this

415
00:31:39,600 --> 00:31:43,200
priesthood.
By this time Gerald Peterson,

416
00:31:43,200 --> 00:31:46,500
senior had new.
All of The Twelve Apostles of

417
00:31:46,500 --> 00:31:50,900
the church, personally knew
David all McKay and Ezra Taft,

418
00:31:50,900 --> 00:31:54,700
Benson Hubie, Brown knew all of
them.

419
00:31:55,600 --> 00:32:02,300
And why, why maybe did it
because he had brought in so

420
00:32:02,300 --> 00:32:06,100
many people into activity.
Wherever he was putting brought

421
00:32:06,100 --> 00:32:09,500
in a lot of people in activity.
So all I'm will we want to meet

422
00:32:09,500 --> 00:32:13,500
that brother Peterson?
The 30 percent or 40 percent

423
00:32:13,500 --> 00:32:16,800
attendance, always jumps up,
whatever he's in charge of, we

424
00:32:16,800 --> 00:32:21,200
want to meet him.
And so he and his wife, Faye,

425
00:32:21,700 --> 00:32:24,700
personally knew David okay.
Personally, shook hands

426
00:32:25,000 --> 00:32:29,900
personally knew his wife.
They probably knew both of the

427
00:32:29,900 --> 00:32:33,100
wives, but at that time, it
didn't realize it.

428
00:32:33,700 --> 00:32:39,700
But in this one meeting Gerald
Peterson is told prior to the

429
00:32:39,700 --> 00:32:43,200
meeting, the Lord saying my son,
I'm now going to reveal to you.

430
00:32:43,200 --> 00:32:45,800
He who holds the keys of this
priesthood.

431
00:32:47,200 --> 00:32:50,900
He goes to the meeting room now,
red is the one that's giving the

432
00:32:50,908 --> 00:32:54,800
presentation, and it's a nature
Pathak meeting.

433
00:32:55,100 --> 00:33:00,000
They're both nature Pathak,
doctors by now, And he was just

434
00:33:00,500 --> 00:33:04,600
what how can this be?
He's just a doctor.

435
00:33:05,200 --> 00:33:09,900
I was expecting Ezra Taft Benson
to come knocking on my door or

436
00:33:09,900 --> 00:33:13,400
David O.
McCain is saying somebody I

437
00:33:13,400 --> 00:33:17,700
don't understand this.
So he goes, he grabs him after

438
00:33:17,700 --> 00:33:20,600
and he says, Doctor all.
Read my name is dr.

439
00:33:20,600 --> 00:33:26,000
Peterson And he's very having a
very difficult time.

440
00:33:27,900 --> 00:33:31,000
Keep in mind, when I said
difficult time, he's dealt with

441
00:33:31,000 --> 00:33:33,800
lawyers, he's dealt with all
kinds of people.

442
00:33:34,200 --> 00:33:39,900
I mean, brilliant man, but right
now, he's looking at this, man,

443
00:33:39,900 --> 00:33:44,500
this is stranger and staying.
Did God tell me that man?

444
00:33:44,500 --> 00:33:47,800
Holds the keys.
Well, I'm going to give it a

445
00:33:47,800 --> 00:33:49,800
chance.
Says dr.

446
00:33:49,800 --> 00:33:54,400
All remedy you hold the keys.
Dr. Address looked him in the

447
00:33:54,400 --> 00:33:59,500
eye and said, dr.
Peterson, you have already been

448
00:33:59,500 --> 00:34:02,700
told.
And he said the second time he

449
00:34:02,700 --> 00:34:04,100
thought he was going to pass
out.

450
00:34:04,100 --> 00:34:10,000
How can this be he chased him
down wanted to meet with me and

451
00:34:10,000 --> 00:34:13,400
so secretly met with him some
period of time.

452
00:34:14,000 --> 00:34:20,199
Then after a while, Gerald
Peterson said to rule and after

453
00:34:20,199 --> 00:34:22,500
he had learned a lot, you'd loan
him a lot of books.

454
00:34:22,500 --> 00:34:27,000
He helped had to keep secret and
keep in mind, he's in the High

455
00:34:27,000 --> 00:34:33,500
Council, in Northern North cash.
So he's not just keeping his

456
00:34:33,500 --> 00:34:37,400
wife and kids but everybody grew
from seeing all these documents

457
00:34:37,400 --> 00:34:43,199
hated book.
One day, I've lost track.

458
00:34:44,000 --> 00:34:46,699
Oh yes.
So we goes to rule in this one

459
00:34:46,699 --> 00:34:49,500
time and he said drool and I
don't know what to do about my

460
00:34:49,500 --> 00:34:52,500
wife.
I'm not, you know, many many

461
00:34:52,500 --> 00:34:57,200
many years ago she was not have
any interest in learning doing

462
00:34:57,200 --> 00:35:01,200
the living plural marriage.
She said, on the condition, the

463
00:35:01,200 --> 00:35:04,300
president of the church asked
her to then she would know it

464
00:35:04,300 --> 00:35:06,700
was time.
What am I supposed to do

465
00:35:06,700 --> 00:35:07,400
divorce?
Her.

466
00:35:08,800 --> 00:35:14,200
And he paused the spirit Lord,
to Mom said no, she's a good

467
00:35:14,200 --> 00:35:17,600
woman.
You bring her to me and I will

468
00:35:17,600 --> 00:35:21,700
just introduce myself and become
acquainted with their.

469
00:35:21,700 --> 00:35:24,500
So the next time they were in
town, they've dropped off in the

470
00:35:24,500 --> 00:35:28,900
front of the office.
He run in real quick, said, hey,

471
00:35:28,900 --> 00:35:33,200
she's out here.
Brother rule and excuse himself

472
00:35:33,200 --> 00:35:38,400
from a patient went out extended
his house, his hand, by this

473
00:35:38,400 --> 00:35:40,300
time, she knew he's a
polygamist.

474
00:35:40,900 --> 00:35:42,700
And in her mind.
Oh boy.

475
00:35:43,300 --> 00:35:46,900
Always guys, like is just 6:06
after sex.

476
00:35:47,400 --> 00:35:51,600
I don't know if I want to touch
this man at all, but I will be

477
00:35:51,600 --> 00:35:55,300
courteous and he rolls, she
rolls the window down, and they

478
00:35:55,300 --> 00:35:58,700
shake hands.
And they talked for two or three

479
00:35:58,700 --> 00:36:01,400
minutes, just on a medical
basis, how's the weather?

480
00:36:02,100 --> 00:36:05,100
And then they take off and then
as they take off, she starts

481
00:36:05,100 --> 00:36:09,400
crying.
She's Gerald, I don't

482
00:36:09,400 --> 00:36:15,000
understand.
He's a polygamist but the spirit

483
00:36:15,000 --> 00:36:19,200
he radiates his a strong or
stronger than David, all

484
00:36:19,200 --> 00:36:22,000
McCain's how in the world can
that be.

485
00:36:22,700 --> 00:36:25,900
And then Gerald tells all of
these been doing the last 20

486
00:36:25,900 --> 00:36:32,400
years Brother ruined.
Brilliant man.

487
00:36:32,400 --> 00:36:35,500
Very intelligent man.
Very courteous.

488
00:36:36,100 --> 00:36:44,000
Very kind, very affectionate.
I remember, Keep in mind when I

489
00:36:44,000 --> 00:36:50,300
enjoyed on came into the work,
the law had dropped tremendously

490
00:36:50,300 --> 00:36:54,500
from it, still arrested people,
but it was nothing like it was

491
00:36:54,500 --> 00:36:59,700
10 years before any time he came
to a meeting and he was in the

492
00:36:59,700 --> 00:37:02,300
meeting.
If he had four wives, three

493
00:37:02,300 --> 00:37:07,100
wives Six Wives in there, he
would get there on time so that

494
00:37:07,100 --> 00:37:11,900
he could go and take the hand of
one of these wipes and give me A

495
00:37:11,908 --> 00:37:16,700
little kiss and Sarah, love you.
And sometimes they'd be lined

496
00:37:16,700 --> 00:37:18,500
up.
Sometimes he go from one point

497
00:37:18,500 --> 00:37:21,300
to another, he was very kind,
very affectionate.

498
00:37:21,800 --> 00:37:27,700
And he was always eulogizing the
greatness and the wonderfulness

499
00:37:27,700 --> 00:37:32,100
of good wives that place their
bodies into the shadow of death

500
00:37:32,100 --> 00:37:38,200
to bring babies into the world.
Now, you go ahead and ask more

501
00:37:38,200 --> 00:37:42,100
question.
Well, I just want to point out

502
00:37:42,100 --> 00:37:48,400
first that even from the
beginning of what we consider

503
00:37:48,400 --> 00:37:52,300
modern fundamentalism.
Now, there seems to be this

504
00:37:52,300 --> 00:37:57,100
misconception, that, you know,
the these guys are requiring

505
00:37:57,100 --> 00:38:01,700
their wives to basically go to
bed whenever they say.

506
00:38:02,100 --> 00:38:06,400
And what I encountered, when I
was first investigating

507
00:38:06,500 --> 00:38:09,300
fundamentalism and and
subsequently, all the way

508
00:38:09,300 --> 00:38:17,200
through is that that's not the
case whatsoever and Many of

509
00:38:17,200 --> 00:38:25,200
these women have the ability,
even the responsibility of of

510
00:38:25,600 --> 00:38:29,400
being able to to just tell
somebody no.

511
00:38:29,700 --> 00:38:34,500
And by these early
fundamentalist Brethren they

512
00:38:34,500 --> 00:38:37,900
they respected that.
And I think that comes through

513
00:38:38,100 --> 00:38:41,700
within and in the stories you're
telling her about ruin that he

514
00:38:41,700 --> 00:38:46,200
was.
He was very much concerned with

515
00:38:46,200 --> 00:38:50,300
the comfort and happiness of his
wives, and I think that's

516
00:38:50,300 --> 00:38:54,500
something that often gets lost
in history and in the propaganda

517
00:38:54,500 --> 00:38:57,800
that we see coming out of
mainstream media about

518
00:38:57,800 --> 00:39:00,800
fundamentalism.
So, I appreciate you telling

519
00:39:00,800 --> 00:39:04,700
those stories.
So, I want to go back to your

520
00:39:04,700 --> 00:39:07,300
interactions with ruined because
I think those are important.

521
00:39:07,300 --> 00:39:10,700
It's one thing to know the
history of somebody.

522
00:39:10,700 --> 00:39:14,300
It's another thing to talk.
Talk to people who had personal

523
00:39:14,300 --> 00:39:18,600
interactions with that person
because I think that speaks more

524
00:39:18,800 --> 00:39:22,900
about that person than maybe,
you know, he was born on this

525
00:39:22,900 --> 00:39:25,500
date and died on this date and
you did these things.

526
00:39:26,200 --> 00:39:29,200
It's those day-to-day
interactions that I think speaks

527
00:39:29,200 --> 00:39:31,300
volumes about who a person
really is.

528
00:39:32,900 --> 00:39:37,200
So, let's get back to Montana.
You said you move to Montana and

529
00:39:37,200 --> 00:39:42,400
ruin gave one of his wives, a
very specific task.

530
00:39:42,600 --> 00:39:45,200
To keep an eye on you and your
wife.

531
00:39:45,200 --> 00:39:53,000
Why was that?
We were green and once again the

532
00:39:53,000 --> 00:40:00,000
armpit principal and I want to
make sure this comes over in

533
00:40:00,000 --> 00:40:03,400
proper balance.
When you get a lot of people

534
00:40:03,400 --> 00:40:07,500
together, you're going to have a
lot of different ideas and there

535
00:40:07,500 --> 00:40:12,200
could be some frictions and
sometimes a friction May throw a

536
00:40:12,200 --> 00:40:15,100
person.
May I go back to the time of

537
00:40:15,100 --> 00:40:19,200
Jesus with the 12 apostles and
the sisters.

538
00:40:20,000 --> 00:40:26,000
There were there were frictions
numerous time in both cases,

539
00:40:26,100 --> 00:40:29,700
Mary, and Martha, and other
sisters to another Brethren.

540
00:40:30,200 --> 00:40:34,400
Well, there, Was frictions on
the other hand.

541
00:40:34,500 --> 00:40:38,100
There was a lot of righteousness
and a lot of goodness and

542
00:40:38,700 --> 00:40:41,300
brother.
Ruling did not want to, to be

543
00:40:41,300 --> 00:40:46,800
such that we, oh my word.
This guy actually cost this day.

544
00:40:46,800 --> 00:40:49,500
When when he smashed his thumb
with a hammer.

545
00:40:50,100 --> 00:40:52,200
Oh my word.
We didn't think polygamous would

546
00:40:52,200 --> 00:40:56,400
ever swear but this one did oh
well, this can't be true.

547
00:40:56,400 --> 00:40:58,000
I'm going back to the Mormon
Church.

548
00:40:58,100 --> 00:40:59,500
You know, I'm exaggerating,
right?

549
00:40:59,500 --> 00:41:00,500
Right.
Yep.

550
00:41:02,500 --> 00:41:07,500
And on the other hand, both go
is done.

551
00:41:07,500 --> 00:41:11,100
And I were extremely hungry to
learn the truth.

552
00:41:11,600 --> 00:41:15,500
Now, I'm embarrassed to tell you
this, but even though I was

553
00:41:15,500 --> 00:41:20,300
converted to the principal and I
believed in the principle, I

554
00:41:20,300 --> 00:41:24,100
kept praying that God would give
the wives to someone else.

555
00:41:24,100 --> 00:41:33,300
I want some more time, my wife
Gloria Don was constantly trying

556
00:41:33,300 --> 00:41:38,100
to keep an eye on somebody and
brother ruin numerous times, was

557
00:41:38,100 --> 00:41:42,400
calling me up says, I want you
to go see so-and-so or he would

558
00:41:42,400 --> 00:41:45,700
send Gerald senior to me or he
was sent John Ray to me.

559
00:41:46,200 --> 00:41:52,800
I would like brother Orson to go
see someone so and that was

560
00:41:52,800 --> 00:41:59,100
awkward for me then after a
while I got liking a couple of

561
00:41:59,107 --> 00:42:01,200
them but then they married
somebody else.

562
00:42:04,200 --> 00:42:10,100
So so ruin was trying to kind of
help you along and living the

563
00:42:10,100 --> 00:42:14,400
principle of plural marriage
sounds like, yes he was this.

564
00:42:14,700 --> 00:42:18,600
I went to him after a couple of
them, got married and I said,

565
00:42:18,900 --> 00:42:23,800
brother ruling.
If you knew and I'm not saying

566
00:42:23,800 --> 00:42:28,300
that he did know, but I said it
in the in the tents that will

567
00:42:28,300 --> 00:42:30,300
brother rule and if you knew
they were going to marry

568
00:42:30,300 --> 00:42:33,100
somebody else.
Anyway, why did you send me?

569
00:42:34,400 --> 00:42:37,500
And he kind of grand and he
said, or are you are

570
00:42:37,500 --> 00:42:43,100
experienced?
And I thought that's a cop-out.

571
00:42:44,700 --> 00:42:48,300
This time went on.
I thought, you know, I would

572
00:42:48,300 --> 00:42:51,700
have never on my own.
I mean, Glory gone.

573
00:42:51,700 --> 00:42:56,600
Kept pushing me but I would have
never on my own, but he did.

574
00:42:56,600 --> 00:43:00,300
So there's times.
We lived on one end of the

575
00:43:00,300 --> 00:43:03,600
property.
We're talking hundreds of Acres,

576
00:43:03,600 --> 00:43:05,000
okay.
Oh okay.

577
00:43:05,800 --> 00:43:08,400
We lived at the far north.
I'm trying to remember.

578
00:43:08,400 --> 00:43:10,400
It was a far north.
I've lost track.

579
00:43:10,400 --> 00:43:12,500
Even though I just been up there
a month ago.

580
00:43:13,000 --> 00:43:19,500
I think it was the far north.
And so, we were the part of this

581
00:43:19,500 --> 00:43:22,800
together.
So, sometimes, when ruin was

582
00:43:22,800 --> 00:43:29,100
there on a weekend, I would ride
with Rule and, and Gloria Dunn

583
00:43:29,100 --> 00:43:32,900
would ride with our, I would
take brew and two or three be

584
00:43:32,900 --> 00:43:38,100
sons and then Gloria would ride
with Ethel and the daughters.

585
00:43:38,100 --> 00:43:42,400
And so every chance I got I
would ask him questions.

586
00:43:43,000 --> 00:43:46,900
Ian's.
And let me just explain a

587
00:43:46,908 --> 00:43:51,600
principle here.
This is difficult, but rather

588
00:43:51,600 --> 00:43:55,800
ruling if you if you're in a
classroom.

589
00:43:56,000 --> 00:43:59,000
But let's say there's six grades
in one room.

590
00:44:00,300 --> 00:44:04,900
And if a third grader, ask a
fourth grade question.

591
00:44:06,200 --> 00:44:09,700
Brother ruin could tell, well,
they're not going to be able to

592
00:44:09,700 --> 00:44:11,900
answer it.
Understand it on the fourth

593
00:44:11,900 --> 00:44:15,900
grade level, I can only answer
it on a third grade level.

594
00:44:16,800 --> 00:44:21,700
Then a sixth grader, asked that
same question, he would answer

595
00:44:21,700 --> 00:44:26,200
it different.
So according to your level of

596
00:44:26,200 --> 00:44:32,500
development, he would answer the
question and there could be many

597
00:44:32,500 --> 00:44:35,500
different things.
So there's times that I would

598
00:44:35,500 --> 00:44:37,200
get.
Theme and I would say

599
00:44:37,400 --> 00:44:40,300
figuratively speaking.
I'd say brother ruined.

600
00:44:40,900 --> 00:44:44,400
I want to get a sixth grade
answer to this question.

601
00:44:45,300 --> 00:44:48,400
I don't want a second or third
grade answer.

602
00:44:49,400 --> 00:44:52,800
Now, most of the time he would
give it but many times they

603
00:44:52,800 --> 00:44:56,600
would tell me, You can't be
passing this on.

604
00:44:57,500 --> 00:45:01,700
I'm giving this to you in
confident confidential giving it

605
00:45:01,700 --> 00:45:08,800
confidentially.
Now, I mean, I'm okay I would

606
00:45:08,800 --> 00:45:14,200
like very much to tell a point
here because this it all has to

607
00:45:14,200 --> 00:45:18,000
do with our relationship that we
knew brother ruined, my hug

608
00:45:18,000 --> 00:45:20,900
brother rule and I ate with
brother ruolan, I worked on

609
00:45:20,900 --> 00:45:24,800
these houses.
He blessed my my Emily.

610
00:45:24,800 --> 00:45:28,800
He sealed people to me, gay
patriarchal, blessings.

611
00:45:29,400 --> 00:45:32,900
I mean, we work together, he
gave assignments to me with

612
00:45:32,900 --> 00:45:38,100
different councilman, whether it
was political to to get rid of

613
00:45:38,100 --> 00:45:43,900
Carter, whether it was to in the
state of Utah to campaign.

614
00:45:43,900 --> 00:45:48,400
For different Governor, I mean,
I did many things but once again

615
00:45:48,400 --> 00:45:56,100
there in Montana What time I'm
going to slip here back to,

616
00:45:56,100 --> 00:45:58,200
because there's an important
element that needs to be

617
00:45:58,200 --> 00:46:04,000
understood here, brother.
Rulin personally knew David.

618
00:46:04,000 --> 00:46:06,800
All McKay.
They personally had a

619
00:46:06,808 --> 00:46:11,800
relationship, David know.
Personally knew that ruins the

620
00:46:11,800 --> 00:46:16,400
already held the presiding keys
and that he held the keys of the

621
00:46:16,400 --> 00:46:18,300
church.
How did all this happen?

622
00:46:19,200 --> 00:46:23,300
Because he asked in the very
beginning, And he asked Gerald,

623
00:46:23,300 --> 00:46:27,200
senior, and his wife, if they
would take a family that had a

624
00:46:27,200 --> 00:46:34,300
lot of children and they thought
in the sense that wow, you know,

625
00:46:34,300 --> 00:46:37,900
we're looking at maybe one wife
that we can kind of hide here

626
00:46:37,900 --> 00:46:41,200
Hide there but a whole family so
they decide they're going to

627
00:46:41,207 --> 00:46:43,800
pray about it.
We're definitely going to pray

628
00:46:43,800 --> 00:46:48,700
about it and they both
individually have a dream where

629
00:46:48,700 --> 00:46:53,500
David McKay appears to them in
the Dream and says, to both of

630
00:46:53,500 --> 00:46:56,500
them.
Yes, you move forward in living

631
00:46:56,500 --> 00:47:00,500
plural, marriage but do not hurt
me or the keys.

632
00:47:01,900 --> 00:47:06,200
So they went him week and said,
how come David all McKay will be

633
00:47:06,200 --> 00:47:10,500
doing this and then that's when
he revealed to him many years

634
00:47:10,500 --> 00:47:14,000
before David O McKay was made
known to him.

635
00:47:14,000 --> 00:47:18,300
The Savior personally came to
him and let him know that he

636
00:47:18,300 --> 00:47:21,200
only has the keys to the church
and that he has to live plural.

637
00:47:21,200 --> 00:47:24,800
Marriage.
And he has he has, he has more

638
00:47:24,800 --> 00:47:27,400
than one.
Like now when I say that he has

639
00:47:27,400 --> 00:47:31,000
a second one, it doesn't mean
there is pi but we just just

640
00:47:31,000 --> 00:47:34,900
know that the second one was
always there and there was a

641
00:47:34,908 --> 00:47:40,400
brother named Oh boy please.
I've got Gary Watson.

642
00:47:41,500 --> 00:47:46,500
Gary Watson.
Jerry Watson was a liaison

643
00:47:46,500 --> 00:47:48,600
between ruling and David on
McKay.

644
00:47:49,800 --> 00:47:56,300
And they will hand him a list of
people that he felt should be

645
00:47:56,300 --> 00:48:02,700
taught the fullness on Peyton.
I want you to stop verbalizing

646
00:48:02,700 --> 00:48:07,600
it brother Orson.
This is a super important point

647
00:48:08,000 --> 00:48:11,500
and I was wondering if you could
say that one more time, who the

648
00:48:11,500 --> 00:48:13,600
gentleman was that delivered the
papers?

649
00:48:14,800 --> 00:48:20,100
And then okay, so and I'm going
to restate this, just to make

650
00:48:20,100 --> 00:48:24,000
sure we're clear here.
So David McKay and I've heard

651
00:48:24,000 --> 00:48:28,300
this rumor for years.
Had it had a second wife.

652
00:48:28,900 --> 00:48:31,000
Do we know what her name was by
chance?

653
00:48:32,100 --> 00:48:34,700
We do, but I can't remember it.
Okay.

654
00:48:35,200 --> 00:48:37,900
All right.
So, David all McKay has a second

655
00:48:37,900 --> 00:48:40,600
wife.
He has a personal visitation by

656
00:48:40,600 --> 00:48:44,300
the Savior, which says, hey, you
have the keys to the church, but

657
00:48:44,300 --> 00:48:47,800
the keys of the priesthood that
rest with ruin.

658
00:48:48,800 --> 00:48:55,200
Yes, and so David O McKay and
this is just fascinating because

659
00:48:55,200 --> 00:48:58,400
I've heard this on from more
than one person on several

660
00:48:58,400 --> 00:49:04,400
occasions, David Olmec.
A would then Then go and through

661
00:49:04,400 --> 00:49:06,400
his interactions with different
people.

662
00:49:06,400 --> 00:49:10,500
In the church would say that
person or that family needs to

663
00:49:10,500 --> 00:49:13,300
be taught the fullness.
And at that time, he would

664
00:49:13,300 --> 00:49:18,300
direct ruin through these papers
through this list that was

665
00:49:18,300 --> 00:49:23,000
delivered by Gary Watson.
And then ruin would go teach

666
00:49:23,000 --> 00:49:26,100
these people.
The fullness is that correct?

667
00:49:26,800 --> 00:49:30,100
In general?
There's I will cope Gary Watson.

668
00:49:30,900 --> 00:49:35,100
Yeah.
Watson when he would meet he it

669
00:49:35,100 --> 00:49:38,800
was his understanding that.
There were people coming to

670
00:49:38,800 --> 00:49:42,600
David ohmic a every week to
said, we want to live plural

671
00:49:42,600 --> 00:49:44,000
marriage.
Why can't we live plural

672
00:49:44,000 --> 00:49:48,300
marriage and the bulk of them.
David all McKay said, the spirit

673
00:49:48,300 --> 00:49:50,700
said, they're not ready, and
they're not worthy.

674
00:49:50,800 --> 00:49:54,100
The but there were a few that
were ready and he would take

675
00:49:54,100 --> 00:49:57,400
those names down, but he would
never converse with them.

676
00:49:57,400 --> 00:50:01,500
Oh yeah, I'll send someone right
over because he had to protect

677
00:50:01,500 --> 00:50:06,300
himself church.
So he would keep lists like that

678
00:50:07,000 --> 00:50:11,700
and then when Gary W brother
ruling and now I want to be sure

679
00:50:12,000 --> 00:50:18,100
in a whatever period of time
before Gary W ruined.

680
00:50:18,100 --> 00:50:23,500
Died up to nineteen seven.
Actually, Lee up to 1980.

681
00:50:25,200 --> 00:50:28,400
But tonight teen ATI, still met
with Gary Watson.

682
00:50:28,400 --> 00:50:33,100
He had a cabin in Cedar Canyon
and he came down, he had home,

683
00:50:33,100 --> 00:50:36,100
several places.
He wanted me to take a look at

684
00:50:36,100 --> 00:50:40,100
his cabin and I asked him again.
I think that's the last time I

685
00:50:40,100 --> 00:50:42,700
ever asking.
Last time I ever saw him.

686
00:50:43,500 --> 00:50:49,200
I said, I want to hear it again.
Ruolan, had a letter with

687
00:50:49,200 --> 00:50:52,000
information.
He wanted David ohmic a to read.

688
00:50:52,900 --> 00:50:57,400
And you would take it up and you
would go through the normal

689
00:50:58,400 --> 00:51:03,200
introduction to get through and
get, let his secretary comedian

690
00:51:03,300 --> 00:51:08,800
and then you would have just you
just ordinary little questions

691
00:51:08,800 --> 00:51:12,900
to ask that you would talk about
because David Olmec, according

692
00:51:12,900 --> 00:51:16,400
to Gary Watson was very
convinced that there were

693
00:51:16,400 --> 00:51:21,900
several Apostles that suspected
that his secretary was his

694
00:51:21,900 --> 00:51:22,900
second wife.
Why?

695
00:51:23,600 --> 00:51:26,300
And so, he did not want anything
spoken.

696
00:51:26,900 --> 00:51:29,800
That was recorded.
That would be too revealing.

697
00:51:30,100 --> 00:51:33,100
So that's why almost everything
was written, even though they

698
00:51:33,100 --> 00:51:37,300
did talk and they had symbolism
and Gary Watson's fed.

699
00:51:37,300 --> 00:51:41,900
Yes, that's what I did.
There was he was the main one

700
00:51:41,900 --> 00:51:47,900
that I was aware, but I did not
know that until David on pique

701
00:51:47,900 --> 00:51:52,500
died.
Then Gerald, let it be known.

702
00:51:52,600 --> 00:51:56,600
Because he'd been told by
ruined, so I want to know who

703
00:51:56,600 --> 00:52:00,400
was one of the layouts on.
Well, it was Gary W and just so

704
00:52:00,400 --> 00:52:07,100
that, you know, which is ironic
in 2017 that was I think I was

705
00:52:07,100 --> 00:52:12,600
in Montana and most people
didn't know anything about it.

706
00:52:12,900 --> 00:52:17,300
Even in the all red, I mean, we,
I was called on.

707
00:52:17,800 --> 00:52:20,900
I was called on numerous
assignments.

708
00:52:22,500 --> 00:52:26,000
Some were very dangerous
assignments matter of the FBI

709
00:52:26,000 --> 00:52:30,800
and I don't know if I need that
record bit or not, but Salt Lake

710
00:52:30,800 --> 00:52:37,600
County Sheriff but I'm going,
I'm going to set that aside one

711
00:52:37,600 --> 00:52:45,900
day, one day, an airplane lands
in the meadow up there and a car

712
00:52:45,900 --> 00:52:48,800
runs out there real quick.
We're talking pinesdale, okay,

713
00:52:49,300 --> 00:52:52,800
okay, and if I this part of
can't remember, sure, but I

714
00:52:52,800 --> 00:52:57,900
think it was Ken Spencer, which
I just saw him a few months ago

715
00:52:58,900 --> 00:53:04,200
and who FBI agent jumps in and
drives to see ruined ruined

716
00:53:04,200 --> 00:53:09,300
talks to him, maybe 10 minutes,
drives back the FBI agent takes

717
00:53:09,300 --> 00:53:12,600
off.
There's many times that there

718
00:53:12,600 --> 00:53:18,400
were FBI agents that thought
that this was completely

719
00:53:18,900 --> 00:53:25,200
Malarkey total baloney that
Would be arresting a man that

720
00:53:25,200 --> 00:53:29,400
was such a Godly good man.
They could care less about p.m.

721
00:53:29,700 --> 00:53:34,900
but they knew that he stood up
for Freedom, an agency and to

722
00:53:34,900 --> 00:53:40,000
protect the innocent and they
hated their job when they had to

723
00:53:40,000 --> 00:53:42,300
do it.
But when he was finally out

724
00:53:42,700 --> 00:53:47,400
neighbor, there were two or
three of them that and in the

725
00:53:47,400 --> 00:53:55,100
Salt Lake 8 agency to not FBI,
but Salt Lake County Sheriff's

726
00:53:55,100 --> 00:53:59,600
Department, they became good
friends with them, and it saved

727
00:53:59,600 --> 00:54:04,600
people's lives.
There's numerous times brother

728
00:54:04,600 --> 00:54:08,200
ruling.
There was some friction or not?

729
00:54:08,200 --> 00:54:10,100
We're him want, and I'm going to
get back.

730
00:54:18,500 --> 00:54:21,200
Oh yeah, engineer.
I mean he's a designer but he

731
00:54:21,200 --> 00:54:24,300
looks like he looked like a guy
out of the Ozark Hills with the

732
00:54:24,300 --> 00:54:29,900
beard everything but he was
skillful, brilliant, and he had

733
00:54:29,900 --> 00:54:34,000
a brilliant mind.
Hey.

734
00:54:35,700 --> 00:54:39,900
He decided he wanted to change
some of the ideas principles.

735
00:54:41,400 --> 00:54:46,200
And brother Rowland had bringing
two tasks before long.

736
00:54:46,200 --> 00:54:53,300
He was now trying to blame ruled
for a lot of things Plus in the

737
00:54:53,300 --> 00:54:56,700
very beginning stages, he could
be corrected.

738
00:54:57,200 --> 00:55:00,700
So in these beginning stages,
sometimes he would get into

739
00:55:00,700 --> 00:55:08,900
arguments with Morris Jessup and
Ted wild are Ted.

740
00:55:08,900 --> 00:55:13,500
Why do I mean?
And one time they got in a fight

741
00:55:13,500 --> 00:55:17,200
and I stepped in front of them,
guys, please stop.

742
00:55:17,900 --> 00:55:21,400
Whereas I am not.
We and they slapped and stop.

743
00:55:21,800 --> 00:55:25,500
Well, there got to be so much
friction in this one particular

744
00:55:25,500 --> 00:55:30,800
period of time.
I thought, you know, My wife

745
00:55:30,800 --> 00:55:37,300
Gloria Dunn was back in Utah,
Betty back getting close to

746
00:55:37,300 --> 00:55:40,600
deliver second baby.
So she was right where she was

747
00:55:41,000 --> 00:55:46,800
within just 30 minutes of a
doctor which was her dad at that

748
00:55:46,800 --> 00:55:51,600
particular period of time.
And I thought, oh my word.

749
00:55:52,400 --> 00:55:55,500
I couldn't go any further.
I'm going to leave.

750
00:55:56,200 --> 00:55:58,700
I'm going to leave like, 2:00 in
the morning.

751
00:55:59,400 --> 00:56:01,800
I'm going to head right to
Marie.

752
00:56:02,600 --> 00:56:04,900
I'm going to go.
Let Rule and know what's going

753
00:56:04,900 --> 00:56:09,400
on now.
Nobody knew that I had left

754
00:56:09,500 --> 00:56:11,700
Gloria Dunn.
Didn't know nobody.

755
00:56:12,900 --> 00:56:17,900
And I pulled in, I pulled into
the Marie office about 10:00 in

756
00:56:17,900 --> 00:56:23,600
the morning and as I walked in
Rule and saw me and he said,

757
00:56:23,800 --> 00:56:28,300
brother Bill, I've been
expecting you come right in and

758
00:56:28,300 --> 00:56:33,600
talk to me.
Now, what does that do to you?

759
00:56:34,100 --> 00:56:39,000
Nobody knew, but yeah, he knew.
Are you still are?

760
00:56:39,300 --> 00:56:42,100
Yeah, I'm listening.
Okay good.

761
00:56:45,600 --> 00:56:49,800
There's times we.
There was a water system that we

762
00:56:49,800 --> 00:56:56,400
had to build brother ruin.
Another ruling brother ruin had

763
00:56:56,400 --> 00:56:58,800
been used.
I mean, whether it was breaking

764
00:56:59,300 --> 00:57:06,100
horses or Doing cattle rounding.
He done that in these up in

765
00:57:06,100 --> 00:57:14,800
Idaho, and I've been in Black
Canada, I don't know.

766
00:57:14,800 --> 00:57:17,500
There's so many stories.
I got to tell this about Canada.

767
00:57:18,800 --> 00:57:22,600
All the sons were there.
And they were all logging.

768
00:57:24,100 --> 00:57:30,600
And one of the chain locks snap
broke, when it broke, it broke

769
00:57:30,600 --> 00:57:34,500
its connection, it swung around
and it broke, it broke.

770
00:57:34,500 --> 00:57:39,000
Brian Harvey's legs.
Halfway between his knees and

771
00:57:39,000 --> 00:57:45,600
he's ankled and they had to pick
him up and they had the best I

772
00:57:45,600 --> 00:57:50,400
could with bags or calls or
anything put him on top of the

773
00:57:50,400 --> 00:57:53,000
law to say.
Hold it all the way back down.

774
00:57:54,400 --> 00:57:59,100
And he had some older Sons that
were older than ruling, but he

775
00:57:59,100 --> 00:58:03,000
got him on and keep in mind,
they're going to the going to

776
00:58:03,000 --> 00:58:05,400
the Church of Jesus Christ of
Latter-day Saints.

777
00:58:08,500 --> 00:58:12,400
Solar participating that way.
And he said, let me on the

778
00:58:12,400 --> 00:58:17,100
table, all of you lift me on the
table and he picks some of them.

779
00:58:17,100 --> 00:58:21,300
I want you to give me a blessing
and so they did, they gave him a

780
00:58:21,300 --> 00:58:25,100
blessing.
The next morning he got up and

781
00:58:25,100 --> 00:58:27,300
went to work.
Both legs have been healed.

782
00:58:27,600 --> 00:58:31,800
Wow brother ruling was always
talking about miracles and

783
00:58:31,808 --> 00:58:37,100
healings anyway, he was very
capable of work.

784
00:58:37,200 --> 00:58:45,400
Working, very dexterous very and
yet it was not abnormal to

785
00:58:45,400 --> 00:58:51,100
deliver two babies in the night
and then go and cover, a full

786
00:58:51,100 --> 00:58:56,300
practice during the day, but
this one particular weekend, it

787
00:58:56,300 --> 00:59:00,800
could have been two weekends
brother rule says, we are

788
00:59:00,800 --> 00:59:05,400
getting all of these raspberries
or chokecherry not choke

789
00:59:05,400 --> 00:59:07,000
cherries.
It was Summit.

790
00:59:07,400 --> 00:59:12,600
Berries and we're all going to
work together and put the plant

791
00:59:12,600 --> 00:59:17,000
them and so we did.
He's right out there digging

792
00:59:17,000 --> 00:59:20,900
away, putting it in, just like
the 20 year olds, the 18 year

793
00:59:20,900 --> 00:59:25,400
olds, the 40 year olds.
And he was like, I think at that

794
00:59:25,400 --> 00:59:29,700
time, he's a little above 50
years old at that particular

795
00:59:29,700 --> 00:59:34,200
period of time.
I know I'm bouncing around a

796
00:59:34,207 --> 00:59:41,100
little bit, but no, you're good.
It was not abnormal, he would.

797
00:59:42,600 --> 00:59:49,100
Now, he may get a ticket for
this rather ruin when he would

798
00:59:49,100 --> 00:59:53,400
leave Salt Lake.
And it wasn't always the same.

799
00:59:53,400 --> 00:59:57,300
That usually it was a weekend.
It asks the Lord.

800
00:59:57,300 --> 01:00:01,400
Will you protect me?
Help me that I can get up there.

801
01:00:01,400 --> 01:00:06,200
Safely, man, he'd sticking at
85. 90 miles an hour.

802
01:00:07,300 --> 01:00:11,700
Obviously it was a safety
wouldn't, but he would get there

803
01:00:11,700 --> 01:00:18,100
in the middle of the night.
And be with, you had two wives

804
01:00:18,200 --> 01:00:21,200
up there at the time.
He mostly just wives were down

805
01:00:21,600 --> 01:00:26,300
south in the Salt Lake promo
Valley, right?

806
01:00:26,400 --> 01:00:31,600
And the up right shiny.
It Go with this wife and deal

807
01:00:31,600 --> 01:00:37,100
with that wife, been deal with
Brethren, and Ethel.

808
01:00:38,100 --> 01:00:43,600
So Ethel would see him
approximately two times.

809
01:00:45,400 --> 01:00:59,100
Every three weeks. two times,
and she would say, I would

810
01:00:59,100 --> 01:01:04,000
rather be married to a man, but
I know can get me to the

811
01:01:04,000 --> 01:01:08,400
Celestial Kingdom, even if I
only seem every three weeks,

812
01:01:09,500 --> 01:01:13,600
Then a man that I see every day
that I have questions, whether

813
01:01:13,600 --> 01:01:17,700
he can even get me to the bottom
of the deep Celestial Kingdom,

814
01:01:18,300 --> 01:01:24,200
and she loved him with a with a
virtue as a girl.

815
01:01:24,200 --> 01:01:27,000
The spirit kept telling her,
that's who she was supposed to

816
01:01:27,008 --> 01:01:29,800
marry.
And she stood up and defended

817
01:01:29,800 --> 01:01:35,400
him numerous times she showed
him honor.

818
01:01:35,600 --> 01:01:40,300
She showed him respect, he
showed her Spect.

819
01:01:40,800 --> 01:01:43,000
He showed all of his wives
respect.

820
01:01:43,600 --> 01:01:49,200
He may have the keys but he
believed in stewardship.

821
01:01:49,200 --> 01:01:55,200
So, okay, in the kitchen, that's
the wife's wife stewardship, the

822
01:01:55,200 --> 01:01:57,300
husband can tell me an offer to
help.

823
01:01:58,800 --> 01:02:01,400
He can even surprise her and get
the dishes done.

824
01:02:02,500 --> 01:02:06,600
But when she goes in there and
she's there, she's the boss.

825
01:02:07,700 --> 01:02:12,500
You make sure you find out whose
stewardship you're in and then

826
01:02:12,500 --> 01:02:17,600
you follow according to their
rules in their stewardship and

827
01:02:17,600 --> 01:02:19,600
some say, well, geez, all to
keep.

828
01:02:19,600 --> 01:02:21,500
He's a priest that he should be
telling her.

829
01:02:22,600 --> 01:02:28,300
He does have a right to but he
doesn't have a right to whatever

830
01:02:28,300 --> 01:02:31,900
the stewardship rather ruling.
Want to make sure it was a

831
01:02:31,908 --> 01:02:35,300
deacon, and he wanted, unless he
was making a mess.

832
01:02:36,100 --> 01:02:39,400
If the Deacon wanted to do
something, just a certain way

833
01:02:40,000 --> 01:02:43,500
and it wasn't perfect.
Rather rule wouldn't interfere

834
01:02:43,600 --> 01:02:45,700
as long.
The job get done for it early.

835
01:02:47,700 --> 01:02:51,600
No lie to the point if there was
something that was out of order.

836
01:02:51,600 --> 01:02:58,500
And then he would ask advice,
you know, if, for example, I'm

837
01:02:58,500 --> 01:03:01,100
making this up and yet, this is
a reality.

838
01:03:01,600 --> 01:03:05,700
If the husband says, I
absolutely do not want my wife's

839
01:03:05,700 --> 01:03:09,200
milking goats, Brother ruined
said, okay.

840
01:03:10,500 --> 01:03:13,800
That's your stewardship.
I'm not going to eat, but your

841
01:03:13,800 --> 01:03:19,500
neighbor he wants his wives, the
milk goats I will sustain both

842
01:03:19,500 --> 01:03:24,800
of you and your stewardship.
Now, if any of your wives are

843
01:03:24,800 --> 01:03:28,200
being misused, not being
treated, right?

844
01:03:29,000 --> 01:03:31,900
I don't care about the goats,
but if they're not being

845
01:03:31,900 --> 01:03:34,700
treated, right?
And they come to me, I will have

846
01:03:34,700 --> 01:03:42,900
a talk with you because women
Are not chattel, women are

847
01:03:42,900 --> 01:03:47,800
special sisters of God and they
need to be treated with the

848
01:03:47,800 --> 01:03:50,800
highest level of respect and
appreciation.

849
01:03:51,600 --> 01:03:58,500
Now that was that's how we
always taught, you know?

850
01:03:58,500 --> 01:04:01,000
That's so inspiring to hear,
right?

851
01:04:01,000 --> 01:04:06,600
I mean this is a guy who is
loved by his community, this is

852
01:04:06,600 --> 01:04:13,300
a guy who holds the key.
He's but yet he gives people

853
01:04:13,300 --> 01:04:19,800
Room to Grow, right?
And, and he also gives room to

854
01:04:19,800 --> 01:04:23,000
understand.
Not every family is going to be

855
01:04:23,000 --> 01:04:27,500
the same, right?
You use the, the, the example of

856
01:04:27,500 --> 01:04:31,800
milking goats or whatnot.
He understood that, that

857
01:04:31,800 --> 01:04:35,000
different families will have
different.

858
01:04:36,700 --> 01:04:39,800
So different personalities, I
guess so to speak.

859
01:04:40,200 --> 01:04:45,000
And he gave people room to be
who they were, despite his

860
01:04:45,000 --> 01:04:48,400
immense position in regards to
those people.

861
01:04:48,800 --> 01:04:52,100
And that is just absolutely one
of those things that just

862
01:04:52,100 --> 01:04:56,800
screams servant leadership which
is something.

863
01:04:56,800 --> 01:04:59,900
That's what I feel like is
sorely needed today in a lot of

864
01:04:59,900 --> 01:05:03,100
ways, right?
This idea of yeah, he's a leader

865
01:05:03,100 --> 01:05:07,200
but he's also there because he
loves us and he's he's trying to

866
01:05:07,200 --> 01:05:10,200
do Best by goddamn by us and by
his family.

867
01:05:12,900 --> 01:05:18,800
Praise the Lord, Brother ruin
had and I don't know what it

868
01:05:18,800 --> 01:05:21,700
was.
Let me back up a little bit

869
01:05:21,700 --> 01:05:25,700
here.
The latter part of my mission.

870
01:05:26,300 --> 01:05:31,000
I was in charge of Los Angeles
and being in charge of Los

871
01:05:31,000 --> 01:05:33,500
Angeles.
I lived right?

872
01:05:33,500 --> 01:05:37,100
Close to the mission home and
right by the Santa Monica

873
01:05:37,100 --> 01:05:41,100
Temple.
So there were numerous times

874
01:05:41,200 --> 01:05:44,700
that there were Apostles that
would come there because that

875
01:05:44,700 --> 01:05:48,400
was the headquarters of the
whole mission and I would meet

876
01:05:48,400 --> 01:05:50,700
them become acquainted with
them.

877
01:05:50,700 --> 01:05:55,200
Shake hands with them.
Have a Patient with them, I met

878
01:05:55,200 --> 01:05:57,800
all of them, excuse me.
I won't say men.

879
01:05:57,800 --> 01:06:02,200
All of my probably met, at least
eight of all of them, even some

880
01:06:02,200 --> 01:06:06,700
that eventually became president
of the church and, and they were

881
01:06:06,700 --> 01:06:12,200
gentlemen, they're courteous.
But there were two men that

882
01:06:12,200 --> 01:06:18,400
stood far ahead of those Gerald
senior and ruling all red, they

883
01:06:18,400 --> 01:06:26,500
just emanated.
This are of I, I know what the

884
01:06:26,500 --> 01:06:29,900
Lord wants.
I'm going to exemplify what the

885
01:06:29,900 --> 01:06:35,300
war Lord wants and and one of
the biggest things about being a

886
01:06:35,300 --> 01:06:42,300
leader, you've just underlined
making sure you protect agency.

887
01:06:43,000 --> 01:06:45,000
That's uh that's one of the
reasons.

888
01:06:45,000 --> 01:06:52,100
The FBI agents loved him and
that the sheriff's loved him

889
01:06:52,100 --> 01:06:56,200
because they knew he was out
there to protect the agency of

890
01:06:56,200 --> 01:07:04,500
people give people the right.
Now, let me, let me think here

891
01:07:05,100 --> 01:07:12,700
he had a debt to homes up there.
And physically there was just no

892
01:07:12,700 --> 01:07:18,100
way that he would be able to do
a lot of work on his homes.

893
01:07:18,700 --> 01:07:23,700
Every three weeks, just there
was no way and be able to take

894
01:07:23,700 --> 01:07:27,100
care of all the brothers and the
sisters that wanted questions

895
01:07:27,100 --> 01:07:31,100
answered, plus spending time
with these wives in these kids.

896
01:07:32,300 --> 01:07:36,200
Now, when I say, there's no way,
I guess he could say, okay,

897
01:07:36,200 --> 01:07:40,200
everybody over here, Saturday,
and we're going to work on my

898
01:07:40,200 --> 01:07:44,000
house while we all talked
gospel, while we're working on

899
01:07:44,000 --> 01:07:47,500
my house, he could have done
that but all the time that I was

900
01:07:47,500 --> 01:07:52,200
there, he never did.
He never did now, I helped on

901
01:07:52,200 --> 01:07:57,100
his house numerous times and but
going back to Ethel again.

902
01:07:58,200 --> 01:08:02,700
Ethel.
Was able to organize and recruit

903
01:08:02,700 --> 01:08:08,200
her home.
Her home was, it was home still

904
01:08:08,200 --> 01:08:09,900
there.
I was just in there for weeks

905
01:08:09,900 --> 01:08:16,000
ago.
The home was old, it was make

906
01:08:16,000 --> 01:08:22,399
do, but the make do was orderly.
The make do was say eight, the

907
01:08:22,399 --> 01:08:26,800
make do was clean.
She would make sure everything

908
01:08:26,800 --> 01:08:31,200
was orderly in, how the one wife
died in the, from the other

909
01:08:31,200 --> 01:08:32,700
house.
Her name was Ruth.

910
01:08:34,300 --> 01:08:38,500
And so ethylene Adept taken care
of some of the kids that was

911
01:08:38,500 --> 01:08:43,100
with that one.
And every time we would go in to

912
01:08:43,100 --> 01:08:48,100
that home, very orderly.
She taught up and she said this

913
01:08:48,100 --> 01:08:53,200
is of course what what rule and
would want and it's not it's

914
01:08:53,200 --> 01:08:56,100
what I want.
I mean I want my home to be

915
01:08:56,100 --> 01:09:00,399
orderly, rather ruin tried to
have everything orderly but at

916
01:09:00,399 --> 01:09:07,700
the same time, giving Agency.
Now, I have to say there is one

917
01:09:07,700 --> 01:09:11,899
skeleton in the closet here, but
in saying this, I hope it

918
01:09:11,899 --> 01:09:14,700
doesn't.
Undermine all of the positive.

919
01:09:15,600 --> 01:09:19,300
Rather ruling one time.
Several of his sons were over

920
01:09:19,300 --> 01:09:24,000
with me and he was trying to
have a family meeting and a

921
01:09:24,000 --> 01:09:28,000
family dinner and he couldn't
find out where they're at.

922
01:09:28,200 --> 01:09:32,300
So he drives over there.
He sees them with me, the

923
01:09:32,300 --> 01:09:39,800
haulers that I'm your boy as you
get over here right now, Foods

924
01:09:39,800 --> 01:09:45,500
waiting no more of this.
So I was kind of one of the bad

925
01:09:45,500 --> 01:09:53,899
guys, but I know brother ruling
put his life on the line to save

926
01:09:53,899 --> 01:09:59,100
people's lives.
He even delivered babies in

927
01:09:59,100 --> 01:10:03,600
Montana, but that wasn't that
often.

928
01:10:03,600 --> 01:10:12,300
But nevertheless you to talk
about the law of Sarah,

929
01:10:12,900 --> 01:10:16,400
everybody.
Let me just say the bottom line

930
01:10:16,400 --> 01:10:19,100
of the law of Sarah.
We talked a little bit about

931
01:10:19,100 --> 01:10:24,100
that, it's extremely important
and that is, she has her

932
01:10:24,100 --> 01:10:29,700
stewardship.
And when a wife comes in We're

933
01:10:29,700 --> 01:10:34,300
getting now into courtship and
marriage rules which Caesar

934
01:10:34,300 --> 01:10:40,500
principle Top by Joseph Smith.
Madam is no man.

935
01:10:40,500 --> 01:10:43,900
Just walks around, says, wow.
That's a cute little chick over

936
01:10:43,900 --> 01:10:47,200
there.
And he goes and wines and dines.

937
01:10:47,208 --> 01:10:50,300
Her and says, oh, let's get
married.

938
01:10:50,300 --> 01:10:55,300
And he, he gets married, and
then he goes home and introduce

939
01:10:55,300 --> 01:11:00,300
them to his two other wives.
That's totally contrary, the

940
01:11:00,300 --> 01:11:07,700
principle of priesthood.
That wife are those wives that

941
01:11:07,700 --> 01:11:12,600
he has has a full right to
accept.

942
01:11:12,600 --> 01:11:17,300
This is under the law of Sarah
to accept this new wine.

943
01:11:18,100 --> 01:11:20,300
And the priesthood Keys must
know.

944
01:11:20,800 --> 01:11:25,600
We bottom line, we can't have
another Colorado City where we

945
01:11:25,600 --> 01:11:29,900
find out.
Five men are trading wives with

946
01:11:29,900 --> 01:11:35,700
five other men and making Two
cows and two ton of hay and the

947
01:11:35,700 --> 01:11:40,600
priesthood doesn't know.
It's very clear, brother'll

948
01:11:40,600 --> 01:11:43,600
woman and panetti.
All of the key holders will say

949
01:11:43,600 --> 01:11:48,000
this.
God knows those women in the

950
01:11:48,000 --> 01:11:52,600
pre-existence, where the
covenants had been made between

951
01:11:53,500 --> 01:11:57,800
that man, and those ladies in
the pre-existence.

952
01:11:58,400 --> 01:12:04,000
And that is the first The first
obligation is to open up the

953
01:12:04,000 --> 01:12:07,400
door that will happen.
However, here's some exception.

954
01:12:08,900 --> 01:12:14,900
Once again, we get into agency
and I'm going to use myself as

955
01:12:14,900 --> 01:12:19,900
an example even though I know
there's other examples, but

956
01:12:20,100 --> 01:12:23,600
there was a lady that was
supposed to come into our

957
01:12:23,600 --> 01:12:34,500
family. but her mother and your
sister forbid, it So brother

958
01:12:34,500 --> 01:12:39,700
rule and said, well I know that
she's supposed to go into your

959
01:12:39,700 --> 01:12:44,500
family but they forbid it.
So under the rule of stewardship

960
01:12:44,800 --> 01:12:48,700
an agency.
I even I'd the keyholder.

961
01:12:48,700 --> 01:12:52,100
I cannot interfere with their
agency.

962
01:12:53,300 --> 01:12:56,600
If that's what they choose to do
and they'll try to do it in a

963
01:12:56,600 --> 01:13:03,000
very honorable way.
Then I must providing the Lord

964
01:13:03,000 --> 01:13:05,900
says yes.
And the Lord did Lord told him

965
01:13:06,100 --> 01:13:09,000
to let her go into the southern
family.

966
01:13:09,300 --> 01:13:14,300
Even though he knew different
and some say, oh boy, well, we

967
01:13:14,300 --> 01:13:18,900
would not ever allow that.
Well, you've got a point where

968
01:13:18,900 --> 01:13:24,700
you've got to draw the line, we
cannot take agency and they were

969
01:13:24,700 --> 01:13:29,600
ruling told both me and Gloria.
Don said, God will have To work

970
01:13:29,600 --> 01:13:34,400
this out.
When we go into the Hereafter

971
01:13:34,900 --> 01:13:38,300
that this happens happens
numerous has happened.

972
01:13:38,300 --> 01:13:41,600
Numerous times, it's not just
me.

973
01:13:42,000 --> 01:13:46,000
So a key holder has to make sure
he protects the agency.

974
01:13:46,300 --> 01:13:48,300
Now just give you another
example.

975
01:13:50,100 --> 01:13:54,200
Brother Reel with know where a
young lady was to go had nothing

976
01:13:54,200 --> 01:14:03,600
to do with me. but Owen was the
Stepfather to this young lady.

977
01:14:04,700 --> 01:14:09,100
And Owen didn't want her to go.
Where ruins said the Lord

978
01:14:09,100 --> 01:14:12,200
wanted.
Brother ruined backed up.

979
01:14:14,900 --> 01:14:17,200
They have all agreed they wanted
the other way.

980
01:14:19,000 --> 01:14:24,100
God will still give his consent
to perform the ceiling but I

981
01:14:24,100 --> 01:14:28,300
have no right to interfere with
their agency.

982
01:14:29,700 --> 01:14:32,500
I'll have to turn it over to the
Lord.

983
01:14:33,900 --> 01:14:37,200
Once again, that may sound like
a contradiction, some may say

984
01:14:37,200 --> 01:14:39,200
well, that's very poor
efficiency.

985
01:14:39,800 --> 01:14:42,000
Yeah.
The adversarial be the very

986
01:14:42,000 --> 01:14:44,300
first one save lives for
efficiency.

987
01:14:44,300 --> 01:14:46,100
You can't be, do you got to
force them?

988
01:14:46,700 --> 01:14:49,300
Yep, angle.
Horsham.

989
01:14:49,300 --> 01:14:53,200
You've got to make sure they
have their agency brother room

990
01:14:53,200 --> 01:14:57,800
was of his very powerful
stickler on that you make sure

991
01:14:57,800 --> 01:15:02,200
you provide agency.
I remember different times when

992
01:15:02,200 --> 01:15:06,900
he put ceilings with, with my
family and others that I was

993
01:15:06,900 --> 01:15:10,100
there, and I'm going to, I'm
going to just going to put Becky

994
01:15:10,100 --> 01:15:13,100
right now.
He took Becky to the side and

995
01:15:13,100 --> 01:15:20,900
said Becky is this Your desire.
I want to hear from you, is this

996
01:15:20,900 --> 01:15:24,700
your design?
And if she'd said no, he'd

997
01:15:24,700 --> 01:15:26,300
walked back out to sorry
brother.

998
01:15:26,300 --> 01:15:30,800
We can't do this.
She has to do this because it's,

999
01:15:31,100 --> 01:15:35,200
it's her choice.
You do not force a woman to

1000
01:15:35,200 --> 01:15:37,000
marry where she doesn't want to
marry.

1001
01:15:39,200 --> 01:15:41,700
Okay.
And that's and that's huge,

1002
01:15:41,700 --> 01:15:43,200
right?
That's huge.

1003
01:15:43,300 --> 01:15:46,600
When we start looking at the
horror shows that happen in

1004
01:15:46,600 --> 01:15:49,500
Colorado.
City under the Jeff's Family,

1005
01:15:49,600 --> 01:15:52,500
right?
Where they didn't have that kind

1006
01:15:52,500 --> 01:15:56,300
of agency, they didn't have that
kind of Freedom, right?

1007
01:15:56,300 --> 01:16:00,000
And so the fact that this man
who could have easily have

1008
01:16:00,000 --> 01:16:03,300
decided, you know what?
No, I hold the keys, it all

1009
01:16:03,300 --> 01:16:06,500
stops here.
He could have easily have done

1010
01:16:06,500 --> 01:16:12,200
that but he went in the other
direction of protecting people

1011
01:16:12,200 --> 01:16:15,400
and especially women's agencies
and who it is, they wanted to

1012
01:16:15,400 --> 01:16:21,100
marry and I feel like that
that's a huge point that needs

1013
01:16:21,100 --> 01:16:22,700
to be made here.
Right?

1014
01:16:22,900 --> 01:16:28,000
Because again oftentimes we have
to come in and we have to break

1015
01:16:28,000 --> 01:16:32,200
down these stereotypes that have
been left to us because of

1016
01:16:32,200 --> 01:16:34,900
Warren Jeffs.
And and the atrocities that

1017
01:16:35,100 --> 01:16:39,900
Happened in Colorado City.
If you go back I think you can

1018
01:16:39,900 --> 01:16:43,200
see this with muster and you can
certainly see this obviously

1019
01:16:43,200 --> 01:16:47,200
with with ruin, all red.
Is this idea of protecting

1020
01:16:47,200 --> 01:16:54,000
agency at all cost and and that
agency is sacred, right?

1021
01:16:54,300 --> 01:16:59,200
Look everything.
Everything in the world, the

1022
01:16:59,200 --> 01:17:03,800
lord can can can manipulate and
make happen.

1023
01:17:03,800 --> 01:17:10,500
The one thing, he'll never try
to do is to to force us to give

1024
01:17:10,500 --> 01:17:18,900
up, our will write our ability
to give up our will and Our

1025
01:17:18,900 --> 01:17:23,700
agency, to Our Father in Heaven.
That's on us to give, he's given

1026
01:17:23,700 --> 01:17:26,400
us that.
And it's the one thing that is

1027
01:17:26,400 --> 01:17:31,200
just sacred above all other.
Praise the Lord.

1028
01:17:33,500 --> 01:17:36,900
You know, some of the things
that I enjoyed talking to rule

1029
01:17:36,900 --> 01:17:40,000
about the were more more
private.

1030
01:17:40,000 --> 01:17:43,200
He didn't get into a lot.
I've touched a couple or three

1031
01:17:43,200 --> 01:17:46,700
of them but one is to have your
calling and election made.

1032
01:17:46,700 --> 01:17:56,400
Sure that was very one and
another one that in reality God

1033
01:17:56,400 --> 01:18:03,200
commands all of his Saints.
To learn to get Revelation men

1034
01:18:03,200 --> 01:18:07,600
and women not just the president
of the priesthood or church, not

1035
01:18:07,600 --> 01:18:13,200
just the apostles, not just
Christian man, but everybody is

1036
01:18:13,200 --> 01:18:17,300
to recognize, they have a
responsibility to get Revelation

1037
01:18:17,900 --> 01:18:21,200
and what and then there's a
there's a ladder you got to

1038
01:18:21,200 --> 01:18:25,400
climb up to get that.
You got break your heart, you

1039
01:18:25,400 --> 01:18:30,600
got a really fast, you got to
really ask but We cannot have

1040
01:18:30,600 --> 01:18:35,700
the fullness of Zion without
every individual involved.

1041
01:18:35,700 --> 01:18:39,800
They're being able to get
Revelation, otherwise there's

1042
01:18:39,800 --> 01:18:42,500
going to be hesitation.
It's when there's things asked

1043
01:18:42,500 --> 01:18:44,900
to do now.
Currently right now.

1044
01:18:44,900 --> 01:18:47,300
Not everyone gets Revelation, so
it doesn't mean.

1045
01:18:47,300 --> 01:18:50,800
Well, you're all condemned.
We just keep working at it.

1046
01:18:50,800 --> 01:18:53,300
But if everyone thinks, well,
gee, I never have to get

1047
01:18:53,300 --> 01:18:55,600
Revelation.
I can just go to my file leader,

1048
01:18:56,200 --> 01:18:58,900
I can go to Michael.
Now, Michael happens to be my

1049
01:18:58,900 --> 01:19:01,400
file.
Later, I'm just going to pull.

1050
01:19:01,700 --> 01:19:04,900
But Michael turned right around,
brothers and sisters.

1051
01:19:05,500 --> 01:19:07,300
This is over the pulp new were
talking.

1052
01:19:07,600 --> 01:19:11,700
Learn to get Revelation.
Michael didn't come up with that

1053
01:19:11,800 --> 01:19:15,000
on his own.
That's been continuous.

1054
01:19:15,000 --> 01:19:20,200
Joseph Smith, tonic who we all
need to we need to seek.

1055
01:19:21,100 --> 01:19:28,100
We need to seek to have This
total Oneness of mine and heart

1056
01:19:29,100 --> 01:19:33,400
and that's not going to happen.
Simply because of Education,

1057
01:19:33,700 --> 01:19:37,600
simply kids giving it to talk.
It's going to happen because we

1058
01:19:37,600 --> 01:19:40,000
have a broken heart and a
contrite spirit.

1059
01:19:40,500 --> 01:19:44,500
And there were earnestly
believing that God can talk to

1060
01:19:44,500 --> 01:19:51,700
us because, you know, God's not
so big and fancy, but he won't

1061
01:19:51,700 --> 01:19:57,200
talk to a little grain of sand.
That's why he's God is because

1062
01:19:57,200 --> 01:20:01,100
he protects the right of the
little sand in the whole desert.

1063
01:20:02,300 --> 01:20:07,100
And he wants the whole thing
God's work and glory and I'm I'm

1064
01:20:07,100 --> 01:20:09,400
quoting.
Some of things ruin would say

1065
01:20:09,800 --> 01:20:12,900
God's working glorious to bring
to pass the immortality and

1066
01:20:12,900 --> 01:20:17,900
eternal life of man, if some man
want to get to the telestial

1067
01:20:17,900 --> 01:20:22,900
kingdom, it's better than hell
and God will help him achieve

1068
01:20:22,900 --> 01:20:25,600
that they want to give to the
trash joke.

1069
01:20:26,100 --> 01:20:30,400
Terrestrial, help him, it's not
the celestial, but it's better

1070
01:20:30,400 --> 01:20:32,300
than the t.
Let's show her how Help.

1071
01:20:32,500 --> 01:20:36,100
And if they want to give him the
lowest degree of the celestial,

1072
01:20:36,100 --> 01:20:40,100
you'll do everything you can.
He won't for somebody to provide

1073
01:20:40,100 --> 01:20:46,100
every bit and and the artwork
is, you know, our work

1074
01:20:46,100 --> 01:20:50,500
specifically in different in the
mother Church, even though they

1075
01:20:50,500 --> 01:20:55,000
don't hold the keys God's using
them rather world, would always

1076
01:20:55,000 --> 01:20:58,100
talk about the good that they're
doing even today, he would talk

1077
01:20:58,100 --> 01:21:02,600
about the good, they're doing to
teach the basics, but our

1078
01:21:02,600 --> 01:21:06,300
responsibility.
And I'm and these are things

1079
01:21:06,300 --> 01:21:10,100
that ruin would talk about
behind the scenes or he would

1080
01:21:10,100 --> 01:21:12,000
code them and people wouldn't
understand.

1081
01:21:12,500 --> 01:21:18,900
We need our brother need to
qualified become of the 144,000

1082
01:21:18,900 --> 01:21:25,100
high priest Apostle, because
they will be the rulers under

1083
01:21:25,100 --> 01:21:27,800
Jesus Christ.
They will be the co inheritors

1084
01:21:27,800 --> 01:21:31,900
of Jesus Christ, that will
totally manage the world, they

1085
01:21:31,900 --> 01:21:37,500
will all Become Gods.
That's what Mormonism in its

1086
01:21:37,500 --> 01:21:39,800
full.
Effect is Apollo about to become

1087
01:21:39,800 --> 01:21:42,900
God's going through the temple
for other ruin.

1088
01:21:43,500 --> 01:21:47,100
Always want to do Jenny ology.
He talked about Jimmy ology.

1089
01:21:47,100 --> 01:21:52,100
He did hundreds and hundreds and
hundreds of hours of Jenny ology

1090
01:21:52,100 --> 01:21:55,500
research.
He promoted Jenny ology promoted

1091
01:21:55,500 --> 01:21:58,500
Temple work.
I mean, the fullness of the

1092
01:21:58,500 --> 01:22:03,700
Gospel is not simply.
Plural marriage.

1093
01:22:04,400 --> 01:22:07,500
United order, the law of
consecration.

1094
01:22:08,200 --> 01:22:11,200
It is everything.
If you don't have everything,

1095
01:22:11,200 --> 01:22:15,100
it's not the fullness.
It's a portion too often many

1096
01:22:15,100 --> 01:22:18,400
fundamentalist.
And I'm quoting ruined too many.

1097
01:22:18,900 --> 01:22:25,300
Well, I got five wives, I've got
45 km/h, so surely God's got it

1098
01:22:25,300 --> 01:22:31,100
all me, but no, I could care
less about doing any Jenny ology

1099
01:22:31,100 --> 01:22:34,300
history or any of that.
A tie you know because I Got It

1100
01:22:34,300 --> 01:22:38,200
Made because I got five wives
and brother ruined his that poor

1101
01:22:38,200 --> 01:22:42,100
guy, he doesn't know, he won't
even probably get into the

1102
01:22:42,600 --> 01:22:46,000
Celestial Kingdom.
Course, there's example there he

1103
01:22:46,000 --> 01:22:50,500
could be good, but trying to
point out, you got to do it all.

1104
01:22:51,400 --> 01:22:54,700
You've got to do your temper,
work your genealogy, work, your

1105
01:22:54,700 --> 01:22:58,600
missionary work, you've got, pay
your tithing, you got to pay

1106
01:22:58,600 --> 01:23:03,100
consecration, you got to live
United order, You got it,

1107
01:23:03,100 --> 01:23:04,800
benchley.
You've got to live in a

1108
01:23:04,808 --> 01:23:09,900
patriarchal consecrated order,
but just living in it.

1109
01:23:10,900 --> 01:23:13,700
But, I'm going to get one thing.
That's the simplest thing in the

1110
01:23:13,700 --> 01:23:16,500
world, brother whom would talk
about.

1111
01:23:17,600 --> 01:23:23,200
He said, I do the very best I
can that's pretty hard.

1112
01:23:23,200 --> 01:23:27,200
If I get to bed at 4:00 in the
morning and I got to get back

1113
01:23:27,700 --> 01:23:33,300
and be at the office at 8:00,
But almost every time I can I

1114
01:23:33,300 --> 01:23:38,400
will write down in my journal.
The basic things that took place

1115
01:23:38,400 --> 01:23:42,300
that day.
And then I will write down where

1116
01:23:42,300 --> 01:23:47,600
I could have done it better and
I right next time I will do this

1117
01:23:47,600 --> 01:23:52,300
better, this brother and
sisters, please do that.

1118
01:23:53,100 --> 01:24:00,300
And what he's trying to say is
that we need to repent daily We

1119
01:24:00,300 --> 01:24:04,200
need to constantly repent
because if we're not walking on

1120
01:24:04,200 --> 01:24:09,200
water and raising the dead and
teleporting to the sun back and

1121
01:24:09,200 --> 01:24:13,900
forth every day, we have not
even come close to where we're

1122
01:24:13,900 --> 01:24:17,700
supposed to.
Because when it's all over, when

1123
01:24:17,700 --> 01:24:19,700
it's all over, and we become
perfect.

1124
01:24:19,700 --> 01:24:23,700
And we come Sanctified and
translated either that had a we

1125
01:24:23,700 --> 01:24:28,500
come resurrected, we need to
seek to become translated.

1126
01:24:29,500 --> 01:24:31,300
And how do you become
translated?

1127
01:24:32,100 --> 01:24:36,900
You don't just come translate
because I went 473 meetings and

1128
01:24:36,900 --> 01:24:41,600
I paid 10,000 dollars tithing
you become translated by, going

1129
01:24:41,600 --> 01:24:47,000
through repentance, and
manifesting, charity and love

1130
01:24:47,300 --> 01:24:51,600
and having a total absolute.
I single to the glory of God, I

1131
01:24:51,600 --> 01:24:54,700
am preaching everything that
rule and would be preaching.

1132
01:24:56,500 --> 01:24:59,100
This is all the things I've
heard from ruin.

1133
01:24:59,800 --> 01:25:02,200
And I absolutely loved and
dirty.

1134
01:25:04,000 --> 01:25:06,100
I knew there was man that were
trying to kill him.

1135
01:25:07,300 --> 01:25:12,600
And there's Miracles, I'm
talking long before, lebaron's

1136
01:25:12,600 --> 01:25:20,300
got persuaded by the labbadia.
But Illuminati, the Illuminati

1137
01:25:20,300 --> 01:25:23,200
was the intelligence.
The lebaron's were simply the

1138
01:25:24,200 --> 01:25:28,300
manifestation of killing, but
brother, rule, and had to get

1139
01:25:28,300 --> 01:25:32,400
rid of, Break up marriages.
I know a marriage.

1140
01:25:32,400 --> 01:25:35,700
There were several wives in the
man was molesting his daughters

1141
01:25:36,700 --> 01:25:40,600
for other rooms had sorry, but I
have to release all your wives.

1142
01:25:42,200 --> 01:25:47,400
Now, I know of two of the lives
that said, okay, we'll move on,

1143
01:25:48,500 --> 01:25:53,500
but I know two of the wives
said, no, we want to stay with

1144
01:25:54,200 --> 01:25:57,300
brother real says, well you've
got your agency but just so, you

1145
01:25:57,300 --> 01:26:02,600
know, you're living in adultery
because he has not reached the

1146
01:26:02,600 --> 01:26:08,300
point of repentant.
Wow.

1147
01:26:08,600 --> 01:26:10,700
So what kind of father was
ruling?

1148
01:26:12,400 --> 01:26:16,200
Brother ruin.
Brother rule and liked.

1149
01:26:19,300 --> 01:26:21,600
Every Monday, whenever it was
possible.

1150
01:26:22,900 --> 01:26:28,500
He would have time when he would
not do anything with anybody

1151
01:26:28,500 --> 01:26:33,200
else.
No other people's meetings, no

1152
01:26:33,200 --> 01:26:36,800
interviews, no marriages.
Unless it was a critical

1153
01:26:36,800 --> 01:26:39,400
problem, or there's a baby case
emergency.

1154
01:26:40,600 --> 01:26:43,500
And he gather all of the
families together, that could

1155
01:26:43,500 --> 01:26:48,000
gather together.
And they would play pinochle,

1156
01:26:48,300 --> 01:26:52,200
they would sing.
They would do shows, he would

1157
01:26:52,200 --> 01:26:55,100
give them blessings.
He would try to personally, talk

1158
01:26:55,100 --> 01:26:57,300
to each one of them as he
possibly could.

1159
01:26:57,900 --> 01:27:00,600
Obviously couldn't get it around
at all the time.

1160
01:27:04,600 --> 01:27:07,900
He, he wanted to know who they
were.

1161
01:27:07,900 --> 01:27:11,400
He wanted to know their soul,
and if he didn't have time, he'd

1162
01:27:11,400 --> 01:27:17,500
ask the mothers, you know.
So, and so is missing a tooth?

1163
01:27:17,700 --> 01:27:22,200
How did that happen?
Well, just got to that point, it

1164
01:27:22,200 --> 01:27:24,400
fell out.
Oh, well, that's good.

1165
01:27:24,400 --> 01:27:27,500
So, they weren't in a fight,
then no, it just fell out ruin.

1166
01:27:29,900 --> 01:27:34,000
Another ruling would whenever he
could, he like, Have wherever it

1167
01:27:34,000 --> 01:27:38,800
when there was a break it like
to take whatever kids and wives,

1168
01:27:38,800 --> 01:27:42,200
they possibly could.
And they go into the hills and

1169
01:27:42,200 --> 01:27:47,700
hike and he would walk, and he
would tell them about this shrub

1170
01:27:47,700 --> 01:27:54,000
and that weed and this herb.
That go fishing and he was a

1171
01:27:54,000 --> 01:27:56,200
good fisherman.
He was a good Hunter.

1172
01:27:57,800 --> 01:28:00,500
I don't remember hearing too
many stories about the hunting.

1173
01:28:00,500 --> 01:28:04,000
You just don't know that that he
did all that.

1174
01:28:06,400 --> 01:28:10,300
He wanted to take time and he
wanted to take time, he always

1175
01:28:10,300 --> 01:28:16,800
organized his life, so that he
had whenever it was possible, he

1176
01:28:16,808 --> 01:28:23,100
had one or more wives with him.
Because, you know, at the end he

1177
01:28:23,100 --> 01:28:27,200
had 16 wives.
But most of the time that I knew

1178
01:28:27,200 --> 01:28:35,300
him and I say, most of the time,
Cry prior to may be the last,

1179
01:28:36,900 --> 01:28:43,300
I'm just guessing on this 1974.
This is a gas.

1180
01:28:43,400 --> 01:28:49,400
Make sure that's understood.
He had about 11 wives that he

1181
01:28:49,400 --> 01:28:52,400
would deal with and he would
take those wife.

1182
01:28:52,400 --> 01:29:00,800
But for actually died, he had 16
course tulip but like one time I

1183
01:29:00,800 --> 01:29:05,100
will give this I will give this
situation.

1184
01:29:06,400 --> 01:29:11,300
There was some serious problems
that it did involve my sister

1185
01:29:12,100 --> 01:29:15,400
which had been investigating and
she was trying to stay away from

1186
01:29:15,400 --> 01:29:23,000
an ex-husband. and, He got the
FBI and the Salt Lake County

1187
01:29:23,000 --> 01:29:27,200
Sheriff's involved.
And brother ruling was working

1188
01:29:27,200 --> 01:29:31,200
with me to try to help me.
Do what is best so that I would

1189
01:29:31,200 --> 01:29:35,200
get in trouble and yet I'd be
protected and protect her.

1190
01:29:40,500 --> 01:29:44,600
Forgive me, I just I totally
lost my thought, no problem.

1191
01:29:48,700 --> 01:29:51,200
We were talking about ruining
and how what?

1192
01:29:51,200 --> 01:29:54,300
He was like as a father.
Oh, yes now.

1193
01:29:55,000 --> 01:29:58,700
Okay.
So I went to meeting I went to

1194
01:29:58,700 --> 01:30:04,400
meet him one night. and, We
talked for a little bit while

1195
01:30:04,400 --> 01:30:07,700
and then all of a sudden, he
thought, oh my word, I'm

1196
01:30:07,700 --> 01:30:11,800
supposed to be to a baptism.
So, I went and got his wife and

1197
01:30:11,800 --> 01:30:13,600
he said, you can come if you'd
like.

1198
01:30:14,800 --> 01:30:19,200
And almost any time he would go
to the different places.

1199
01:30:19,700 --> 01:30:23,500
He would take one or two wives,
and some may say, you mean he

1200
01:30:23,500 --> 01:30:26,800
would never be alone with them.
Well, yes, he would be when it

1201
01:30:26,800 --> 01:30:31,200
time to go to bed, he be alone
with the why And he wasn't alone

1202
01:30:31,200 --> 01:30:34,000
with the wife to well, gee, I
got to catch up on my sex

1203
01:30:34,000 --> 01:30:36,600
appetite.
He'd be alone with the wife.

1204
01:30:36,600 --> 01:30:39,700
See, cry, my shoulder.
Let me hear what's going on with

1205
01:30:39,700 --> 01:30:43,000
you.
What do you want me to say to

1206
01:30:43,000 --> 01:30:44,500
you?
What do you need to know?

1207
01:30:44,800 --> 01:30:47,900
How can I comfort you?
What are the children?

1208
01:30:47,900 --> 01:30:50,500
You'd want me to consider
needing to help?

1209
01:30:51,200 --> 01:30:53,500
What are we lacking in the way
of food story?

1210
01:30:55,100 --> 01:30:57,300
Do you just want to cry on my
shoulder?

1211
01:30:57,300 --> 01:31:02,200
And I'll just listen.
He he he loved his children.

1212
01:31:02,200 --> 01:31:05,400
He was good to his children.
Loved his wife now.

1213
01:31:05,700 --> 01:31:09,500
Am I to say that he never told
them off, or got after him?

1214
01:31:10,000 --> 01:31:12,300
That's not true.
He did tell the mom.

1215
01:31:12,800 --> 01:31:17,300
But am I also wanted to make
sure once there someone was

1216
01:31:17,300 --> 01:31:22,400
corrected, he was constantly
that hair to show them love and

1217
01:31:22,400 --> 01:31:27,100
if he did get after him and they
did get chastised or or told it

1218
01:31:27,200 --> 01:31:30,800
had done something wrong.
He made sure that he loved him.

1219
01:31:31,300 --> 01:31:33,500
Let him know that he cared about
and loved him.

1220
01:31:35,000 --> 01:31:40,300
He tried very much to do things.
And there were in that I was, I

1221
01:31:40,300 --> 01:31:44,800
became a relative through
marrying, his brother's

1222
01:31:44,800 --> 01:31:49,600
daughter, we were invited to the
reunions from time to time.

1223
01:31:51,500 --> 01:31:55,400
Wow.
And I know brother ruling was

1224
01:31:55,400 --> 01:32:10,100
pretty good at Water fighting.
All right, so I feel like that

1225
01:32:10,100 --> 01:32:14,400
really paints a good picture of
who the man is, right, and what

1226
01:32:14,400 --> 01:32:17,900
he was about.
I'm going to ask you to talk a

1227
01:32:17,900 --> 01:32:21,900
little bit about a sensitive
subject now and that was how

1228
01:32:21,900 --> 01:32:25,100
ruined passed Beyond the Veil
and what happened there.

1229
01:32:30,500 --> 01:32:35,200
Okay.
Brother Rowland.

1230
01:32:36,800 --> 01:32:39,200
Now, some will say, well, how do
you know this?

1231
01:32:39,200 --> 01:32:43,200
It would take a while to give
documentation.

1232
01:32:44,600 --> 01:32:46,400
If we have time, that could be
done.

1233
01:32:46,400 --> 01:32:50,600
But brother rule, the new at
least two years in advance.

1234
01:32:51,800 --> 01:32:56,700
But he was going to to go and
that he was going to go.

1235
01:32:58,300 --> 01:33:03,600
In an unnatural way.
But he did not reveal that.

1236
01:33:04,900 --> 01:33:07,300
To anybody.
Well I won't say didn't reveal

1237
01:33:07,300 --> 01:33:11,300
it to anybody, but I never heard
it being announced.

1238
01:33:11,600 --> 01:33:14,500
I did hear two or three people
years later.

1239
01:33:14,500 --> 01:33:17,000
They went through their journal
and said, wow!

1240
01:33:17,400 --> 01:33:22,000
He said I have got to do this by
this date.

1241
01:33:22,000 --> 01:33:26,800
I've got to get all this done.
Which led them to realize.

1242
01:33:27,800 --> 01:33:31,400
Well, that was the date in that
same area that he died.

1243
01:33:32,100 --> 01:33:36,900
He had a premonition That he was
going to go.

1244
01:33:37,300 --> 01:33:43,400
He knew he had to have his blood
shed in order for him to fulfill

1245
01:33:43,400 --> 01:33:46,100
his mission.
Not everyone's supposed to do

1246
01:33:46,100 --> 01:33:51,300
that, but he changed the.
He just stage the dispensation

1247
01:33:51,800 --> 01:33:54,600
and he knew he had to have his
blood shed and if you can

1248
01:33:54,600 --> 01:33:59,100
imagine him saying to his life.
Well, ladies, one of these days,

1249
01:33:59,100 --> 01:34:04,000
I know it's going to happen, I'm
going to get I'm going to get

1250
01:34:04,000 --> 01:34:06,100
shot to death.
Oh no.

1251
01:34:06,100 --> 01:34:08,500
Well then don't go to work that
day.

1252
01:34:09,900 --> 01:34:14,500
Let's stay home constantly.
That's not the way it's supposed

1253
01:34:14,500 --> 01:34:16,200
to be my dears.
He would say.

1254
01:34:17,500 --> 01:34:20,600
We've got to go day by day and
do whatever it is, that will be

1255
01:34:20,600 --> 01:34:25,100
the most pleasing to the Lord.
Hmm.

1256
01:34:27,200 --> 01:34:33,500
He gave the keys.
As near as we can get the

1257
01:34:33,500 --> 01:34:38,400
records, he gave the presiding
keys to Gerald Peterson, senior,

1258
01:34:39,900 --> 01:34:44,600
probably in the early fall of
1976.

1259
01:34:52,500 --> 01:34:58,400
There's been a lot of criticisms
and problems which wasn't new.

1260
01:35:00,700 --> 01:35:05,000
Ruling had gone through it.
And Gerald Peterson was going

1261
01:35:05,000 --> 01:35:10,100
through it.
But Gerald Peterson came to me.

1262
01:35:10,400 --> 01:35:16,100
We were in the order.
I was assisting him in leading

1263
01:35:16,100 --> 01:35:20,800
the amount of you order their
standee When we met in a little

1264
01:35:20,800 --> 01:35:24,400
building, well, it wasn't all
that little bit was in the end

1265
01:35:24,400 --> 01:35:27,400
restoring.
It was a two-level readmit down

1266
01:35:27,400 --> 01:35:31,200
there in the summer.
It was cool in the winter, we

1267
01:35:31,200 --> 01:35:33,600
could shut the door and have a
little heater and we'd be

1268
01:35:33,600 --> 01:35:38,700
private.
Just brother drilling.

1269
01:35:39,200 --> 01:35:43,200
I'm discovering his complaining
against me.

1270
01:35:44,400 --> 01:35:47,900
And it's breaking my heart.
I have a list of things here.

1271
01:35:49,000 --> 01:35:53,900
But I would like to present to
him and course in this

1272
01:35:53,900 --> 01:35:56,900
discussion, we talked about
maybe it doesn't think that was

1273
01:35:56,900 --> 01:36:01,600
just one of a dozen.
And finally, he said, you know,

1274
01:36:02,100 --> 01:36:06,700
I'm going to ask God what he
wants me to do few days later.

1275
01:36:06,700 --> 01:36:12,600
He said, God told him turn this
over to me, do not approach

1276
01:36:12,600 --> 01:36:14,300
through and not any of these
things.

1277
01:36:15,400 --> 01:36:19,200
Then a few days later, ruling
called said Gerald.

1278
01:36:19,300 --> 01:36:21,200
Jerry.
I need you to come see me as

1279
01:36:21,200 --> 01:36:27,200
soon as possible. so I'm telling
you how how it actually turned

1280
01:36:27,200 --> 01:36:30,200
it out because I didn't know all
of it at the time, I didn't know

1281
01:36:30,200 --> 01:36:34,200
the whole thing till after but
rather ruin when when he gets

1282
01:36:34,200 --> 01:36:40,800
there He says, the Lord has
personally chastised me, but I

1283
01:36:40,800 --> 01:36:45,400
am out of order that I have
negatively, affected your

1284
01:36:45,400 --> 01:36:49,900
mission and that I must get your
forgiveness.

1285
01:36:51,000 --> 01:36:53,500
I must repent of this and get
your forgiveness.

1286
01:36:54,500 --> 01:36:58,100
Will you please forgive me?
I'm grandpa said, yes, I

1287
01:36:58,100 --> 01:36:59,500
absolutely.
I'll forgive you.

1288
01:37:00,300 --> 01:37:04,700
He says further, the Lord has
told me that I am now to give

1289
01:37:04,700 --> 01:37:10,600
you the presiding keys, but you
cannot pass that on at this time

1290
01:37:11,100 --> 01:37:14,800
without my permission.
So he gave him the key.

1291
01:37:15,800 --> 01:37:21,900
Now, brother ruling.
So we now get into the latter

1292
01:37:21,900 --> 01:37:30,700
part of 1976 and I apologize
without me going back to all of

1293
01:37:30,700 --> 01:37:33,200
the journals.
I can't tell you for sure, but

1294
01:37:33,200 --> 01:37:36,800
in general, it could have been
october-november.

1295
01:37:38,400 --> 01:37:44,000
Even December of 1976 brother
ruined.

1296
01:37:44,100 --> 01:37:49,100
Oh, we are also now.
Trying to impeach President,

1297
01:37:49,100 --> 01:37:59,600
Carter not just in Utah, but
Nationwide. and, Brother

1298
01:37:59,600 --> 01:38:03,000
realness started me to get more
and more, and more threats.

1299
01:38:03,900 --> 01:38:08,700
They're calling his family
calling the office, letting him

1300
01:38:08,700 --> 01:38:12,300
know if you if he doesn't cease
and desist.

1301
01:38:12,300 --> 01:38:17,700
This, you won't have a husband.
Which was putting fear in them

1302
01:38:17,700 --> 01:38:20,600
and a no one wanted him to cool
it.

1303
01:38:21,100 --> 01:38:25,100
His wives are ruined, the Lord's
command me to do this.

1304
01:38:25,100 --> 01:38:30,400
I've got to do this in the
school of the prophets which was

1305
01:38:30,600 --> 01:38:35,400
the first Sunday of every month
and only a handful of Brethren

1306
01:38:35,400 --> 01:38:39,900
were invited to that.
There's, you know, maybe several

1307
01:38:39,900 --> 01:38:44,100
thousand brother and but there
was only, maybe 25 That were

1308
01:38:44,100 --> 01:38:47,100
invited and I happen to be
blessed, be one of those.

1309
01:38:49,800 --> 01:38:56,300
In trying to do this with
impeaching Carter, there were

1310
01:38:56,300 --> 01:38:59,400
those that were cooperating
quite well and those Souls that

1311
01:38:59,400 --> 01:39:03,400
were resisting.
But in the school, the property

1312
01:39:03,400 --> 01:39:05,900
opened up more and more and he
was giving a report.

1313
01:39:06,500 --> 01:39:12,400
So, two months before he died on
that Monday, he said, we are

1314
01:39:12,400 --> 01:39:17,000
making progress.
Bill Kerner was the one he put

1315
01:39:17,000 --> 01:39:19,500
in charge to go Nationwide.
Bill Kerner.

1316
01:39:19,600 --> 01:39:23,600
I've been in, he'd been worked
in Washington.

1317
01:39:23,600 --> 01:39:28,300
He had been in the military, he
knew a lot of generals, a lot of

1318
01:39:28,300 --> 01:39:31,900
other things, and he'd had some
Miracles.

1319
01:39:31,900 --> 01:39:35,600
Absolute Miracles, that's a
whole story in itself where

1320
01:39:35,600 --> 01:39:37,800
numerous times he should have
got killed.

1321
01:39:38,300 --> 01:39:42,800
He didn't, he converted people
to Mormonism because they said,

1322
01:39:44,300 --> 01:39:46,400
if you're awake, you're alive
tomorrow morning.

1323
01:39:46,400 --> 01:39:52,100
I'm joining your church.
And sure enough it was alive.

1324
01:39:53,400 --> 01:39:58,900
Anyway, he joined the fullness
so he would deal with all over.

1325
01:39:59,000 --> 01:40:04,500
So there was big progress.
Then the very two weeks before

1326
01:40:06,400 --> 01:40:10,200
Ruth got killed on the 10th and
I think it was a very last.

1327
01:40:10,400 --> 01:40:16,800
The very first day of May, I
think it was a very first day of

1328
01:40:16,800 --> 01:40:18,500
May.
I'm not be wrong.

1329
01:40:18,500 --> 01:40:20,500
It may have been the second
place track now.

1330
01:40:20,500 --> 01:40:23,800
But anyway, School of prophets,
7:00 in the morning said,

1331
01:40:23,800 --> 01:40:29,600
probably the Illuminati.
I'm quoting the Illuminati.

1332
01:40:29,700 --> 01:40:35,100
Now knows who it is.
That's trying to impeach Carter.

1333
01:40:36,700 --> 01:40:44,200
And they are.
It is the responsibility of the

1334
01:40:44,200 --> 01:40:50,000
priesthood to Bear witness to
the wickedness that's going on.

1335
01:40:50,000 --> 01:40:54,000
And we must go to the doors of
the very luminosity and bear

1336
01:40:54,000 --> 01:40:58,900
witness to that we can do.
Now, that's probably 80% word

1337
01:40:58,900 --> 01:41:01,500
for word that he said.
We now it may not have been

1338
01:41:01,500 --> 01:41:05,300
perfect.
Now, the night before.

1339
01:41:06,500 --> 01:41:11,400
There was a wedding reception
and Gloria done, and had a

1340
01:41:11,400 --> 01:41:17,000
dream, either one, or two years.
Before that in this dream,

1341
01:41:17,500 --> 01:41:21,600
ruined would come walking up to
her and say my dear.

1342
01:41:22,500 --> 01:41:26,800
I am going to give your daughter
charity, a patriarchal blessing

1343
01:41:26,800 --> 01:41:31,800
in the very near future.
And that happened.

1344
01:41:32,100 --> 01:41:34,900
So Gloria.
Don said, I know something's

1345
01:41:34,900 --> 01:41:37,500
going to happen.
I know something's going to

1346
01:41:37,500 --> 01:41:44,000
happen when because that dream.
So now the next day in the

1347
01:41:44,000 --> 01:41:49,700
morning, we have that and you oh
probably 3 or 4 weeks before

1348
01:41:49,700 --> 01:41:55,400
that to Brethren.
Many had volunteered my

1349
01:41:55,400 --> 01:41:58,500
father-in-law being one of them,
well, had several

1350
01:41:58,500 --> 01:42:02,900
father-in-law's, but Ivan Baker
could be a bodyguard for him

1351
01:42:02,900 --> 01:42:09,200
because he was getting more than
normal threats and to Brethren

1352
01:42:09,200 --> 01:42:12,200
John Ray.
And I don't remember who the

1353
01:42:12,200 --> 01:42:16,600
other was, neither one of them
knew the out better, when was

1354
01:42:16,600 --> 01:42:21,600
outside of his residence, in a
car, they both had guns.

1355
01:42:22,700 --> 01:42:26,500
And then they are starting to
keep an eye on the one then they

1356
01:42:26,500 --> 01:42:28,900
suddenly realize, oh that's
brother so-and-so.

1357
01:42:28,900 --> 01:42:31,400
Best brother, who put the gun
away?

1358
01:42:33,100 --> 01:42:37,200
Brother ruined when he heard
that he said brother no more.

1359
01:42:38,700 --> 01:42:42,400
I don't know what that anymore.
I am not and I'm quoting.

1360
01:42:43,100 --> 01:42:50,800
The, the idea that he presented
rather and God knows when I'm

1361
01:42:50,800 --> 01:42:54,400
supposed to die, and it will not
happen a minute sooner.

1362
01:42:55,400 --> 01:42:58,200
But when it's supposed to
happen, it will happen.

1363
01:42:58,800 --> 01:43:02,700
I do not want any of my brethren
getting killed in trying to

1364
01:43:02,700 --> 01:43:05,500
protect me.
So, I don't want this anymore.

1365
01:43:06,300 --> 01:43:11,300
I'm telling you see some to sin.
Now, if you read that whole

1366
01:43:11,300 --> 01:43:15,700
sentence, you realize that he's
knowing that it's going to

1367
01:43:15,700 --> 01:43:21,300
happen, right?
How I'm building this up.

1368
01:43:22,900 --> 01:43:28,600
Okay, now there's a whole bunch
involved in Hindi, it's not just

1369
01:43:28,600 --> 01:43:30,500
a matter where we got to pay the
funeral bill.

1370
01:43:31,900 --> 01:43:38,300
It's it's we have a man that's
in charge of the kingdom of God.

1371
01:43:38,300 --> 01:43:44,000
Political Charge of the well, he
wasn't in charge of the church

1372
01:43:44,600 --> 01:43:47,600
even though he had rights to be
in charge.

1373
01:43:48,200 --> 01:43:50,500
But he was through well at that
time.

1374
01:43:50,500 --> 01:43:52,100
David.
Oh my cake passed away.

1375
01:43:52,100 --> 01:43:56,600
So there was not that
relationship anymore, but he was

1376
01:43:56,600 --> 01:44:04,100
the presiding priesthood key
holder. and, There's a lot of

1377
01:44:04,100 --> 01:44:10,100
things that has to be done.
He looks and I'm I'm condensing

1378
01:44:10,100 --> 01:44:11,800
this down.
Sure.

1379
01:44:12,400 --> 01:44:16,000
Realizes when I was given the
keys.

1380
01:44:18,100 --> 01:44:23,900
This whole group spill up so
bad. that it broke my heart and

1381
01:44:23,900 --> 01:44:29,300
I told Joseph, I don't want him
give him to somebody else.

1382
01:44:30,000 --> 01:44:35,100
Joseph said, that's not the way
God wants it, but Joseph, it's

1383
01:44:35,100 --> 01:44:39,000
going to split up.
There's so many people that hate

1384
01:44:39,000 --> 01:44:41,500
me.
They don't like I mean the

1385
01:44:41,500 --> 01:44:46,300
majority of the people don't
like me ruin and then he could

1386
01:44:46,300 --> 01:44:50,700
see the majority of the people
did not like Gerald Peterson.

1387
01:44:51,500 --> 01:44:55,600
So how do you do this?
How do you keep good people

1388
01:44:56,500 --> 01:45:01,800
advancing and those who want to
be higher than good people

1389
01:45:03,200 --> 01:45:06,200
Learning.
Here's how you do it.

1390
01:45:07,300 --> 01:45:11,700
You take brother Owen and you
bless him publicly?

1391
01:45:12,900 --> 01:45:19,400
That he will be the leader.
Of this group of people you

1392
01:45:19,400 --> 01:45:23,800
bless him with inspiration,
guidance, understanding, and

1393
01:45:23,800 --> 01:45:28,200
patience that he will lead these
people in righteousness but you

1394
01:45:28,200 --> 01:45:33,700
do not give him the keys.
But you bless him with

1395
01:45:33,700 --> 01:45:35,700
everything.
That's needed to lead those

1396
01:45:35,700 --> 01:45:38,600
people.
And then you've already given

1397
01:45:38,600 --> 01:45:45,600
the key to Gerald Peterson,
senior. so, He reminds.

1398
01:45:45,800 --> 01:45:49,200
And I'm very, very, very good
friends with some of these kids.

1399
01:45:49,200 --> 01:45:52,000
And then particular one, that's
Carol.

1400
01:45:52,000 --> 01:45:56,700
I am a very sweet.
Sweet girl.

1401
01:45:57,100 --> 01:46:03,500
And I say girls she's she's 80
some years old but she still

1402
01:46:03,900 --> 01:46:11,300
sweet girl.
And She Sue several of the kids

1403
01:46:12,300 --> 01:46:15,000
but day he got killed.
He went out of his way to say.

1404
01:46:15,000 --> 01:46:20,800
I love you.
Above normal more than normally.

1405
01:46:23,400 --> 01:46:25,900
I love you honey.
I love you remember.

1406
01:46:25,900 --> 01:46:30,100
I love you and Carol Ann said he
just made Shores.

1407
01:46:30,500 --> 01:46:32,300
I want you to know.
I love you.

1408
01:46:33,600 --> 01:46:35,000
Well, I love you too.
Daddy.

1409
01:46:37,200 --> 01:46:40,700
I I'm absolutely convinced that
he knew it.

1410
01:46:40,700 --> 01:46:44,900
Okay.
Now, so he's inside there.

1411
01:46:45,600 --> 01:46:48,700
Now, you know, in that this is
going to be public.

1412
01:46:48,700 --> 01:46:52,200
What I'm saying, there's some
things, I'm hesitant to go into

1413
01:46:52,400 --> 01:46:56,100
sure.
I will, I will just say, I do

1414
01:46:56,100 --> 01:46:59,200
believe without giving any
names.

1415
01:47:00,700 --> 01:47:05,800
That there was some.
People that didn't like ruin.

1416
01:47:07,900 --> 01:47:10,400
But interconnected with
lebaron's.

1417
01:47:12,200 --> 01:47:16,800
And helped provide information
to get him at the right time.

1418
01:47:18,400 --> 01:47:23,500
That's my feeling.
I won't go in to me now.

1419
01:47:25,100 --> 01:47:30,000
So when it happened It was bang.
Bang bang.

1420
01:47:30,400 --> 01:47:32,300
I wasn't there.
I was down here.

1421
01:47:34,600 --> 01:47:38,200
I know several weeks before,
when I was in pain, Qin, or not

1422
01:47:38,200 --> 01:47:42,700
taken Sandy, Before we actually
started moving.

1423
01:47:42,700 --> 01:47:47,600
So it's probably two months.
Six weeks to months.

1424
01:47:48,400 --> 01:47:52,300
I know I was outside.
Getting ready to go to work.

1425
01:47:52,300 --> 01:47:58,400
And I was in a rush.
I've been in school because I

1426
01:47:58,400 --> 01:48:00,700
taught to.
I taught a class in the very

1427
01:48:00,700 --> 01:48:02,700
beginning.
In the early morning, I had my

1428
01:48:02,700 --> 01:48:05,900
own business, so could regulate
my schedule?

1429
01:48:07,100 --> 01:48:10,900
And I hadn't had a lot of time
other than Bam, Bam and do

1430
01:48:10,900 --> 01:48:14,500
everything I need to do.
And I saw Gloria the hi, honey.

1431
01:48:14,500 --> 01:48:17,000
What's going on?
How you doing, even though she

1432
01:48:17,000 --> 01:48:21,400
was in the school or so?
And she looked very serious and

1433
01:48:21,400 --> 01:48:25,200
what's going on.
Well, mom says that Joseph

1434
01:48:25,200 --> 01:48:28,700
master.
Came to Dad last night and said

1435
01:48:28,700 --> 01:48:31,000
he's going to soon.
Come get ruling.

1436
01:48:32,100 --> 01:48:36,800
And course, shook me up.
Oh, no, only a Groove.

1437
01:48:36,800 --> 01:48:38,100
I don't want to hear such a
thing.

1438
01:48:38,700 --> 01:48:41,500
My, I had a mental block.
I don't want to hear anything

1439
01:48:41,500 --> 01:48:44,100
about.
I was down here.

1440
01:48:45,100 --> 01:48:49,500
When he actually got killed.
So I was up there that weekend

1441
01:48:50,700 --> 01:48:53,100
that we talked about, just
talked about both for the

1442
01:48:53,100 --> 01:48:59,100
wedding reception, which was Era
Terraces, which was his daughter

1443
01:48:59,500 --> 01:49:04,600
Melanie and it was coy as
brother Jairus.

1444
01:49:05,800 --> 01:49:08,700
That they got married.
Then the next morning that the

1445
01:49:08,700 --> 01:49:12,100
school of the prophets and him
talking about that course, that

1446
01:49:12,600 --> 01:49:14,700
will that running in my mind all
the time.

1447
01:49:14,700 --> 01:49:17,900
This is, then when Gloria done
to, something's going to happen,

1448
01:49:18,500 --> 01:49:23,100
I know something's going to
happen because that dream just

1449
01:49:23,100 --> 01:49:26,200
got the pills last night.
And she either had one or two

1450
01:49:26,200 --> 01:49:29,700
years before, which she's always
been psychic.

1451
01:49:29,700 --> 01:49:36,100
She'll have things like that.
So, I bring a load down here.

1452
01:49:36,300 --> 01:49:42,700
I'm down here working.
And here comes Lynn wild which

1453
01:49:42,700 --> 01:49:46,200
is the brother of Ted Weill from
st.

1454
01:49:46,200 --> 01:49:48,700
George and he and Lynn talked
for a few minutes.

1455
01:49:50,000 --> 01:49:54,100
And I'm still doing a little
digging.

1456
01:49:55,900 --> 01:49:58,700
Kind of getting ready to close
up for the night.

1457
01:49:59,700 --> 01:50:03,400
And Ted blind, come over and Ted
says, loons.

1458
01:50:03,400 --> 01:50:04,600
Got something.
He's got it.

1459
01:50:05,000 --> 01:50:09,700
Tell you.
Groom has been killed, and I

1460
01:50:09,900 --> 01:50:12,600
fell to the ground.
I totally lost my energy.

1461
01:50:12,600 --> 01:50:19,700
I just borderline passed out.
I can kind of just I just

1462
01:50:19,700 --> 01:50:23,700
absolutely fell to the ground.
I could hardly get out.

1463
01:50:23,700 --> 01:50:27,200
Hardly get my breath.
And Ted took.

1464
01:50:27,200 --> 01:50:30,100
Well, how do you want to go and
tell the girls?

1465
01:50:34,200 --> 01:50:38,900
So I took a while for me to get
my breath back and we had to

1466
01:50:39,000 --> 01:50:42,700
Grandpa's wives and one of mine
here at the time and their kids.

1467
01:50:44,600 --> 01:50:53,900
We got them into the room.
I said, we've just been informed

1468
01:50:53,900 --> 01:51:00,800
that the ruling has been killed.
of course, it was heartbreaking

1469
01:51:00,800 --> 01:51:07,600
to them, but some of them Elaine
had already had a dream several

1470
01:51:07,600 --> 01:51:10,400
weeks before that ruin was going
to be taken.

1471
01:51:11,200 --> 01:51:15,200
And in the dream, he met un was
Owens daughter.

1472
01:51:16,500 --> 01:51:21,700
In the dream.
Jesus and the the original

1473
01:51:21,700 --> 01:51:27,100
worthy Twelve Apostles came out
of the ceiling. totally

1474
01:51:27,100 --> 01:51:33,000
encircled him and Jesus handed
him this big key of rings and

1475
01:51:33,000 --> 01:51:38,900
Elaine said, That dream.
I know that my dad's not going

1476
01:51:38,900 --> 01:51:40,900
to hold the keys, it's going to
be Grandpa.

1477
01:51:43,900 --> 01:51:48,100
Anyway, so I'm not being there,
I can just report.

1478
01:51:48,800 --> 01:51:54,200
Several shots.
He knew they'd never two ladies,

1479
01:51:54,200 --> 01:51:57,600
they never tried to shoot any
other person.

1480
01:51:59,700 --> 01:52:04,200
But they came back and forth.
They left and they walked back

1481
01:52:04,200 --> 01:52:07,800
out and tried to shoot again to
make sure that he was dead.

1482
01:52:12,000 --> 01:52:16,700
Now.
Here's where I'm telling I'm

1483
01:52:16,700 --> 01:52:23,100
putting pieces together.
Rather ruin talked to several

1484
01:52:23,100 --> 01:52:26,300
loved ones in the next little
while.

1485
01:52:26,900 --> 01:52:36,800
But He went very soon to Gerald
Peterson senior very soon.

1486
01:52:36,800 --> 01:52:43,000
Meaning it was probably less
than an hour because when rivlin

1487
01:52:43,100 --> 01:52:48,100
and got killed the word spread
and and I think it was Bill

1488
01:52:48,100 --> 01:52:51,300
bowls but aren't sure called the
office.

1489
01:52:53,800 --> 01:52:58,600
And call you answer the phone.
Cuz she was working in the

1490
01:52:58,600 --> 01:53:01,100
office there are manganite in
Provo.

1491
01:53:03,000 --> 01:53:07,200
And she handed it to Grandpa.
He was just writing something

1492
01:53:07,200 --> 01:53:11,300
down the one of the patient
because they said rule has been

1493
01:53:11,300 --> 01:53:13,000
killed.
So she handed it to Grandpa.

1494
01:53:14,000 --> 01:53:19,300
And when he heard rumors big
killed, he says all murder.

1495
01:53:20,600 --> 01:53:27,000
Mmm quiet.
Can't have anymore patience.

1496
01:53:27,200 --> 01:53:31,100
I think there was only one left
anyway, closed down.

1497
01:53:31,700 --> 01:53:36,900
So, probably within 20 minutes,
they all went upstairs in the.

1498
01:53:37,100 --> 01:53:39,000
Have you ever been in the manga
night?

1499
01:53:39,500 --> 01:53:42,600
No.
Do you even know what it is?

1500
01:53:43,800 --> 01:53:46,600
Yes.
Okay, it's a four-story

1501
01:53:46,600 --> 01:53:48,700
building.
One of the stories is in the

1502
01:53:48,700 --> 01:53:54,900
ground.
Anyway, shoulder upstairs and he

1503
01:53:54,900 --> 01:53:59,200
is in.
In that one bigger room.

1504
01:53:59,200 --> 01:54:07,200
That was a room for private
lectures experimenting.

1505
01:54:07,200 --> 01:54:15,900
Testing he did things with
different types of organic and

1506
01:54:15,900 --> 01:54:23,400
minerals gold medicines.
He would mix them and make them

1507
01:54:23,400 --> 01:54:27,900
or Vale them in there.
We had numerous times we would

1508
01:54:27,900 --> 01:54:32,500
meet there and have well in
their order there was times

1509
01:54:32,700 --> 01:54:36,900
sometimes I would be down there
and we would consider Koya

1510
01:54:36,900 --> 01:54:41,900
stayed there during the week.
And we would have meetings on

1511
01:54:42,600 --> 01:54:46,500
learning how to get Revelation
and it would be in that room.

1512
01:54:46,500 --> 01:54:52,900
Anyway, he was in there now,
Gloria, I mean, Koya and

1513
01:54:52,900 --> 01:54:57,300
grandma, that's for certain but
I'm not sure about Lana.

1514
01:55:00,300 --> 01:55:03,600
But the piece that I've
understand, that they were

1515
01:55:03,600 --> 01:55:06,700
together, and then Lana is going
to go downstairs.

1516
01:55:06,700 --> 01:55:11,400
So she's going downstairs and
she's very psyche as she's

1517
01:55:11,400 --> 01:55:14,700
walking downstairs.
She sees ruin walking upstairs.

1518
01:55:15,900 --> 01:55:19,600
And he says, hi Lana.
And she says, hi brother ruin

1519
01:55:20,100 --> 01:55:24,300
and then all of a sudden she
stopped Sora o, she looks back,

1520
01:55:24,300 --> 01:55:31,800
see and she doesn't seem Well.
That's when he's in there and he

1521
01:55:31,800 --> 01:55:37,400
says, Jerry you remember me
giving you the keys?

1522
01:55:38,800 --> 01:55:43,500
And now I'm in that can go Keys.
You do must put them into Force.

1523
01:55:44,000 --> 01:55:47,000
He didn't want to do it.
I don't want to do it.

1524
01:55:47,000 --> 01:55:50,900
Nobody will follow me.
I mean you can't be serious Rule

1525
01:55:50,900 --> 01:55:55,700
and nobody's going to follow me.
Plus it was already been very

1526
01:55:55,700 --> 01:55:59,700
clearly announced that all when
had been given the direction to

1527
01:55:59,700 --> 01:56:03,800
lead the people so grandpa.
I do this part.

1528
01:56:03,800 --> 01:56:07,800
I don't know.
He may have thought, well, maybe

1529
01:56:07,800 --> 01:56:12,200
ruined changed his mind and
decided to give him to Owen but

1530
01:56:12,200 --> 01:56:13,000
then ruling.
No.

1531
01:56:14,200 --> 01:56:20,900
He's to be the leader of the AUB
are the wasn't called a you be.

1532
01:56:21,500 --> 01:56:25,900
It's called Always group.
But you are hold the keys and

1533
01:56:25,900 --> 01:56:29,900
you were to move forward.
Well, there's conversation back

1534
01:56:29,900 --> 01:56:34,700
and forth.
And for several weeks he had a

1535
01:56:34,708 --> 01:56:39,500
very bad sciatic pain.
That went down one of these

1536
01:56:39,500 --> 01:56:41,400
legs.
I don't remember which one

1537
01:56:42,000 --> 01:56:46,000
coming out of the lumbar brother
rules and says I'm going to, I'm

1538
01:56:46,000 --> 01:56:50,200
going to bless you right now.
To be assigned to you, that this

1539
01:56:50,200 --> 01:56:52,800
is serious and that God wants
you to do this.

1540
01:56:54,000 --> 01:56:57,800
You absolutely had no pain and
then we all left.

1541
01:57:00,500 --> 01:57:04,500
Well, when really like their
they and he appeared to Gloria

1542
01:57:04,500 --> 01:57:09,800
Dawn in Sandy And all of a
sudden, she saw him.

1543
01:57:11,400 --> 01:57:15,700
But she was a little stunned
nation and a man by the name of

1544
01:57:15,700 --> 01:57:21,900
Abraham's son, which is passed
away now, they both saw him but

1545
01:57:21,900 --> 01:57:25,500
then ruling said to Gloria Dawn
Gloria.

1546
01:57:25,900 --> 01:57:30,400
I won't want you to know that I
have given your dad, the keys

1547
01:57:31,000 --> 01:57:36,200
and you are to let everybody in
this state nor this building or

1548
01:57:36,600 --> 01:57:42,500
or this United order know that I
I have given him the keys.

1549
01:57:44,100 --> 01:57:51,500
Now, those are two things that
directly affect me on a very

1550
01:57:51,500 --> 01:57:57,300
personal basis, but I have
talked with others, which I

1551
01:57:57,300 --> 01:58:01,200
can't remember all of them.
But he came and talked with them

1552
01:58:01,200 --> 01:58:05,600
for just one minute and gave him
some kind of comfort her

1553
01:58:05,600 --> 01:58:09,300
encouragement or hope told him
they loved.

1554
01:58:10,200 --> 01:58:14,900
Or gave him that answer to
something now.

1555
01:58:16,800 --> 01:58:20,200
I was in total.
Shocked.

1556
01:58:21,900 --> 01:58:26,000
Being down here.
And I just, I was just

1557
01:58:26,100 --> 01:58:28,100
overwhelmed.
All right.

1558
01:58:29,000 --> 01:58:34,100
I didn't have a witness.
Who would hold the key from

1559
01:58:34,100 --> 01:58:37,300
Logic on all red with hold the
keys?

1560
01:58:39,200 --> 01:58:41,900
But I knew, oh no, red did not
get Revelation.

1561
01:58:42,300 --> 01:58:46,800
I Newton's a good guy.
A very kind man, honest man.

1562
01:58:47,500 --> 01:58:50,600
But I knew he didn't get
Revelation numerous times,

1563
01:58:50,600 --> 01:58:56,500
ruling be in the hospital.
And I needed to get some key

1564
01:58:56,500 --> 01:59:01,100
level answered so I thought,
well, I'll go to brother Owen

1565
01:59:01,100 --> 01:59:05,800
and asking he'd give me a
direction, but if I left, I

1566
01:59:05,808 --> 01:59:08,800
thought, you know, I'm just
going to hold off on this.

1567
01:59:10,000 --> 01:59:14,900
So maybe a week later ruling to
be out of the hospital and I

1568
01:59:14,900 --> 01:59:19,900
would tell Owen that I did this,
but I didn't tell ruling but I'd

1569
01:59:19,900 --> 01:59:21,900
already asked going.
I just give him the same

1570
01:59:21,900 --> 01:59:25,100
question.
And he would give me an answer,

1571
01:59:25,900 --> 01:59:29,700
but I knew that the answer ruin
Gabe was under the inspiration

1572
01:59:29,700 --> 01:59:34,800
of the Holy Ghost.
I knew the answer that came from

1573
01:59:34,800 --> 01:59:38,000
Owen wasn't evil, it was just
practical.

1574
01:59:39,400 --> 01:59:42,200
And I've been around over on the
knife.

1575
01:59:42,200 --> 01:59:45,000
He's my father-in-law had worked
with him.

1576
01:59:45,200 --> 01:59:49,400
An honest, man, he went.
I mean, he would do anything for

1577
01:59:49,400 --> 01:59:55,300
anyone that was to me.
Anyway, so I was struggling.

1578
01:59:55,800 --> 01:59:59,300
Oh my word.
Well, I'm a nervous wreck.

1579
02:00:00,300 --> 02:00:05,400
I'm stressed because there'd
been persecution prior lot of

1580
02:00:05,400 --> 02:00:08,900
ridicule Prime for a couple
months.

1581
02:00:09,900 --> 02:00:14,800
And when we ended up going to
pay Qin, Brother ruined.

1582
02:00:14,900 --> 02:00:17,300
There's a lot of pieces I'm not
even talking about because

1583
02:00:17,300 --> 02:00:21,400
there's not time but rather
ruling Das, Gerald, Peterson to

1584
02:00:21,400 --> 02:00:27,300
do several projects.
But each case, It involved can

1585
02:00:27,700 --> 02:00:34,300
consent of the council and or
finances which he wanted the

1586
02:00:34,300 --> 02:00:40,500
council to sustain it and they'd
said no one particular one was

1587
02:00:40,500 --> 02:00:47,500
Cedar quartz just, just on the
west side of the mountain range

1588
02:00:47,800 --> 02:00:51,200
where the Utah Lake Side, just
on the opposite side.

1589
02:00:52,300 --> 02:00:55,400
And that particular side, I was
personally involved in because

1590
02:00:55,900 --> 02:01:01,500
we got in these plain Grandpa's
Geraldton, and we flew over took

1591
02:01:01,500 --> 02:01:05,200
pictures.
I took pictures while he flew of

1592
02:01:05,200 --> 02:01:08,900
all of the property because
there were several hundred acres

1593
02:01:08,900 --> 02:01:14,800
and ruin wanted all kinds of
data, waterlogged soil test

1594
02:01:15,200 --> 02:01:22,000
samples altitude.
Everything for design and

1595
02:01:22,000 --> 02:01:24,800
grandpa had a just a rough basic
design.

1596
02:01:24,800 --> 02:01:28,800
Presented it to him, brother
rule and wanted him to go ahead

1597
02:01:28,800 --> 02:01:30,500
and do it.
Be said, oh God, talk to the

1598
02:01:30,508 --> 02:01:34,800
council and they voted it down,
but it was one of about four

1599
02:01:34,800 --> 02:01:39,000
things.
So when have I talked with you

1600
02:01:39,000 --> 02:01:42,700
about penguin, how to get back
when yeah, yet?

1601
02:01:42,700 --> 02:01:47,200
No, you have brother, Orson.
We're up against time here real

1602
02:01:47,200 --> 02:01:50,700
quick, and I have loved this
conversation and I Want to do

1603
02:01:50,700 --> 02:01:53,700
more with you but I have to wrap
up right now.

1604
02:01:54,600 --> 02:01:58,400
Okay.
Um well hold on one second.

1605
02:01:58,600 --> 02:02:01,000
Is there a way before we end
this?

1606
02:02:01,500 --> 02:02:07,400
If I could just get you to Bear
your, testimony of who ruin was

1607
02:02:07,400 --> 02:02:11,200
and what he meant to you.
Praise the Lord.

1608
02:02:14,300 --> 02:02:19,800
Brother ruling was the epitome
of being a Godly Man like the

1609
02:02:19,800 --> 02:02:24,600
Lord Jesus Christ to me.
In the beginning that I knew

1610
02:02:24,600 --> 02:02:30,200
him, I knew he was a perfect.
But I knew he was determined

1611
02:02:30,200 --> 02:02:32,400
with all his heart to become
perfect.

1612
02:02:33,700 --> 02:02:39,800
In the latter few months.
He kept putting his life on the

1613
02:02:39,808 --> 02:02:45,700
line and I knew that that, man.
I felt my personal belief.

1614
02:02:46,200 --> 02:02:51,600
I felt, he had reached a point
that he was perfect according to

1615
02:02:51,600 --> 02:02:55,500
his knowledge now.
Obviously Joseph Smith knows

1616
02:02:55,500 --> 02:03:00,100
more Moses new law, but
according to his knowledge which

1617
02:03:00,100 --> 02:03:02,700
was Superior to anybody else on
the Earth.

1618
02:03:03,900 --> 02:03:07,600
I knew that he was the most
perfect man that I've ever met

1619
02:03:07,600 --> 02:03:12,300
in the flesh.
And I loved him, I trusted him.

1620
02:03:13,300 --> 02:03:18,900
I'm so proud to know and I'm so
thankful to God, but God

1621
02:03:18,900 --> 02:03:23,600
provided the way that we had
many very personal relationships

1622
02:03:24,200 --> 02:03:28,200
and he personally taught me
things, but even some of his

1623
02:03:28,200 --> 02:03:34,400
family didn't even get taught.
And I just feel overwhelmed, but

1624
02:03:34,400 --> 02:03:38,600
I had that Triple H in the
Gloria Dunn had that truly, I

1625
02:03:38,600 --> 02:03:43,400
know he was a man of God.
I know he had the presiding keys

1626
02:03:43,400 --> 02:03:47,200
of the priesthood.
I know that he personally had a

1627
02:03:47,200 --> 02:03:50,200
relationship with the Lord Jesus
Christ.

1628
02:03:51,400 --> 02:03:55,600
I know that he, I know that he
knew his Redeemer.

1629
02:03:55,600 --> 02:03:58,600
I know that he knew the Lord and
dealt with the Lord.

1630
02:03:59,400 --> 02:04:02,300
I know that he dealt with the
Prophet Joseph Smith.

1631
02:04:03,500 --> 02:04:06,700
Praise the Lord.
Now, I could go on and on and on

1632
02:04:06,700 --> 02:04:09,700
I knew that he was a gentleman.
I am in, he was kind, I knew he

1633
02:04:09,700 --> 02:04:13,900
was well educated.
I knew that he cared about

1634
02:04:13,900 --> 02:04:18,200
everybody.
I knew that he had brothers and

1635
02:04:18,200 --> 02:04:22,600
sisters that didn't like the
fullness at all, but he'd always

1636
02:04:22,600 --> 02:04:26,100
be kind to him.
It always care for them.

1637
02:04:27,300 --> 02:04:29,900
I knew that he was a morally
clean, man.

1638
02:04:30,300 --> 02:04:32,900
He was of the highest level of
virtue.

1639
02:04:33,600 --> 02:04:39,300
But you can possibly be, there
was absolutely no Vice

1640
02:04:39,900 --> 02:04:44,800
immorality in that map.
When he delivered babies, he

1641
02:04:44,800 --> 02:04:50,200
interconnected with, with God,
the heavenly father, let me

1642
02:04:50,200 --> 02:04:53,400
bring forth.
He had respect for Womanhood.

1643
02:04:54,000 --> 02:04:57,500
He protected.
He loved women to be virtuous.

1644
02:04:58,400 --> 02:05:04,500
He understood he understood male
and female bodies, He, he knew

1645
02:05:04,500 --> 02:05:08,200
that they were they were temples
of God.

1646
02:05:08,700 --> 02:05:14,700
Not just lash, holy temples.
He was a friend.

1647
02:05:15,700 --> 02:05:18,900
He was a patriarchal leader.
He was a key holder.

1648
02:05:20,200 --> 02:05:23,700
Many times, he was kind to me
whose numerous times.

1649
02:05:23,700 --> 02:05:32,900
He answered my questions when I
knew he was tired. and I, I

1650
02:05:32,900 --> 02:05:36,900
could say more and more.
But no, I think I think that's

1651
02:05:36,900 --> 02:05:41,400
fantastic Orson.
Thank you so much for coming on

1652
02:05:41,400 --> 02:05:45,000
here and telling this story
about these stories about ruin.

1653
02:05:45,000 --> 02:05:49,000
I can't stress enough how
they're certain men and

1654
02:05:49,000 --> 02:05:54,000
Mormonism, whose Footprints get
left for forever.

1655
02:05:54,300 --> 02:05:56,300
And ruin is definitely one of
those men.

1656
02:05:56,300 --> 02:06:00,900
So the fact we could take this
time and talk about it, and we

1657
02:06:00,900 --> 02:06:02,900
can pass this on to.
Those who listen to this

1658
02:06:02,900 --> 02:06:06,900
podcast, I can't thank you
enough for going into some very

1659
02:06:06,900 --> 02:06:15,400
sensitive and sometimes painful
places and I love you and I

1660
02:06:15,407 --> 02:06:18,300
can't wait to have you back on
because there's there's other

1661
02:06:18,300 --> 02:06:19,700
things I'd love to talk to you
about.

1662
02:06:19,700 --> 02:06:23,800
You have a wealth of knowledge
and experience that that I

1663
02:06:23,800 --> 02:06:28,600
definitely want to dive into.
So I really do appreciate you

1664
02:06:28,600 --> 02:06:31,500
and your willingness to talk
here on the podcast.

1665
02:06:32,600 --> 02:06:35,500
God bless.
It's been a pleasure.

1666
02:06:36,400 --> 02:06:38,700
All right.
Bye everybody.

1667
02:06:39,600 --> 02:06:40,700
Bye bye.
Thank you.

1668
02:07:02,900 --> 02:07:05,600
You're listening to the Mormon
Renegade podcast.

1669
02:07:02,900 --> 02:07:05,600
You're listening to the Mormon
Renegade podcast.