May 17, 2025
Episode #184: Persecuted For Faith On The Wasatch Front W/April & Tony Despain
On this episode I have a conversation with April & Tony Despain. April is a Mom that caught wind that her child was being exposed to some Trans affirming things at school. As any good mom would do she raised some questions and after a time found her self in the midst of a lawsuit.
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April Tony, how's it going?
Good, good, good.
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Well.
How are you?
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Let let's be honest, you're here
talking with me.
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Something's got to be wrong,
right?
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Like this this particular topic,
I'm, I'm doing great, but man,
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I'll, I'll tell you what, I've
been friends with you for a
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little while on Facebook and I
always admired how you just like
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the family proclamation.
I was there for it, right?
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Like when, when I first became a
Mormon that came out that year,
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right?
I was, I was in the LDS church
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that time it came out and I was
like, well, this is kind of a no
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brainer, right?
And then?
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Now like 20 some years later,
I'm like, oh, apparently it's
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not a no brainer.
So and as I've seen you guys
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get. 30 years this year.
What's that?
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It'll be 30 years.
This year.
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It was 952025.
Yeah.
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You're right.
I did not need that reminder.
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Holy cow.
No.
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So yeah, I've been following
what's been happening.
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You guys.
It's nuts.
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So are you guys doing OK?
I mean.
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We're fine.
The only thing that is hurting
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is, you know, it's a financial
burden, which she intend.
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I mean, it was intended to be
that way, so.
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Yeah, unfortunately that's the
truth, right?
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Often times when it comes to
lawsuits, if someone can
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outspend you, they just bank on
you settling, right, Right.
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And so it's.
I think this, this person
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thought that we wouldn't do
anything.
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We would just accept it so that
we wouldn't have to pay, which I
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think most people would.
But for me, the principle of the
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matter, I, I couldn't do that.
And luckily I have a husband
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who's very supportive and we,
you know, we're going to make it
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work financially.
That's awesome.
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That's awesome.
Why don't you take us through
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the whole story here?
What what happened?
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Let's fill in the audience here
on on what happened.
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So it started in January of
2021.
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My kids were in public school in
Murray City School District,
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Utah.
And I found out, I think it was
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January 8th, 2021.
I, my son came home from school
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and a neighbor texted me and she
was like, did you hear what
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happened at school today?
They read this book like my
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daughter came home saying that
they read this book about how to
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change your gender.
And you know, in the book it
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says parents made a mistake at
like, I was like, what I was, I
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was absolutely shocked because,
you know, I figured like in this
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is a part of our world, my kids
are gonna have to face these
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realities that people believe
this kind of stuff.
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But I thought it would be like
in junior high from their peers.
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I was absolutely shocked that it
was my son's third grade
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teacher.
These are class of 8 year olds
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and she's teaching this as if
it's truth to all these little
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kids.
So, you know, on that point, I
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started looking into what was
going on and asking questions.
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I emailed the teacher and the
principals and they were
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basically like, we don't answer
to you.
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We do what we want and here's
our district memo and here's how
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we have permission.
And at that point I was like,
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no, no, no, that's not how this
is going to go.
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And I started looking into the
laws and figuring out how I what
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I could do to fight it.
And I wrote this long e-mail
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citing these different Utah
codes around like teaching
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sexuality and whatever those
kind of issues and how parents
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are supposed to have knowledge
of what's going on and they're
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supposed to receive parental
consent.
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And, you know, I sent that.
It was this big long e-mail,
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like one in the morning.
I sent it to the principals and
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the Superintendent.
And I was like, either this gets
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fixed or I'm taking action, you
know, basically a legal threat.
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And so I, at that point, they,
the next day they were all just
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calling me and saying, let's
talk about this, let's work on
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it.
And I got a, a lawyer on the
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phone with me and my husband and
we basically went over the codes
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and we said, you know, this is
not within, this is not within
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the legal rights that you have.
Although they definitely made
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their arguments like the, the HR
guy, he said, well, this isn't
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sexuality, it's gender identity.
So this doesn't fall under the
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code.
It's not A and I was like, what?
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So I had to at that point I was,
I was like praying like, God
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help me to know how to take on
this fight.
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Because technically you could
say gender identity isn't
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sexuality, Although I think
they're so interconnected that
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you can't really separate them.
But that was their argument.
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And I do feel like God answered
that prayer.
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He helped me to realize even in
that phone call, I felt inspired
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to say to compare reading this
book about this transgender kid.
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I said, would you ever read a
book to my, my child's third
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grade class about what it means
to be a Mormon?
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Would you ever explain to them,
Oh, here's how you, the Holy
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Ghost feels and here's how you
identify as a child of God?
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And maybe your parents made a
mistake if they taught you that
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you weren't a child of God.
Like I just, that just came to
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me in that phone call.
I mentioned it and I'm like, I
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know you wouldn't, you would
never teach that.
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So why are you teaching this
stuff?
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It's essentially A belief system
to this class of 8 year olds.
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And, you know, they agreed to
shut down this equity book
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bundles program, although they
denied that there was any LGBTQ
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content in it.
They ended up claiming that a
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student brought in the book.
But I submitted thousands of
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dollars worth of grammar
requests and got all these
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emails and all these meeting
notes and found that in fact,
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there was this content was part
of the books.
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I got an e-mail where the vice
principal was ordering this
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insane book called, oh, what is
it called?
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It feels good to be yourself.
If you look up that book, it's
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this little story book about
like this child was 2 genders
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and this child was no gender and
this child was transgender.
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And it just goes and teaches all
these doctrines about gender
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ideology.
I have an e-mail of the vice
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principal ordering 4 copies of
that book for the book program,
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yet they still deny it to me.
Oh no, this was no not part of
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the book program at any time.
So they they were just liars and
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it was a crazy situation, but I
did everything I could to fight
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it.
And then what ended up happening
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after that April?
The school district lied.
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They just, they, they had this
school board meeting in February
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of 2021.
So, you know, like a few weeks
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after that incident had
happened, the principal from my
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child's school got up.
She told her little story about
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what happened.
It wasn't accurate.
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The whole school board like
played along.
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I was like watching this whole
meeting, like I was so confused.
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Now I know it's, you know, I was
being gaslit and they they
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didn't intend to fix anything.
When we got the grandma request
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back with our emails, it was
like Doug Perry, who was the
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communications director, he was
just like, OK, we're watching
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the news.
This is what they're saying.
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You know, what can we do to fix
this narrative?
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It wasn't anything about like,
what's best for the kids, what's
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going on with the parents?
How can we help them feel
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better?
They didn't care at all about
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that.
It was only their public,
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public.
What do you call that image?
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Only their public image that
they were worried about.
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And so I ended up just
withdrawing my kids from Murray
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School District and we started
home schooling after that
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because I couldn't trust that
school district and they didn't
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care about making things better
for parents.
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All they cared about was their
image.
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And unfortunately in Murray, UT,
it's a very progressive area
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nowadays and all of Salt Lake
City is I think and.
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She she took it up to all the
people she should have taken it
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up to, and nothing changed.
So what does she do?
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She's pregnant, right?
You're pregnant or you just had
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a kid and you ran for school
board?
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Oh, yeah.
So you're, that was in 2021 when
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that started.
And I did, I was, I was pregnant
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in 2021 and I had my last baby
in January 2022.
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And then I turned in the papers
to run for school board.
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I think it was February of 2022.
You know, it was a crazy wild
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ride.
But I really did every single
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thing that I could to try to
enact change in my community,
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and it was just really hard.
It was really hard.
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What about other parents?
Did other parents come out in
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support of what you were saying
or were were did you feel like
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it was just you guys?
A few did, like we formed a
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parent group.
We called it the Murray Parents
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Rights Council.
And I had like, So there's one
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mom, her name's Laurel Fetzer.
She lives, She lives two
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streets.
Well, she did live 2 streets
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over from me and she was a huge
help.
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You know, she actually, she ran
for state school board the year
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that I ran for local school
board.
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But, and so we formed a little
parent group, maybe like 40
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parents or so that were really,
but it was mainly like me and
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Laurel really doing the majority
of the work and the other
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parents, a lot of parents, like
a lot of times they'd be like,
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oh, yeah, I'm rooting for you.
Great job, like whispering to
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you behind closed doors.
But when it comes time to get in
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the public arena, they don't
want to do it because like as
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I've endured, you are targeted,
you are harassed, you are
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mocked, you are, you know, just
treated like crap all over the
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place.
And they don't want that on
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them.
So they'll quietly say they
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support you, but they won't
really stand with you publicly.
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And it's funny.
Yeah, it's a hard thing.
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A lot of them will, like, watch
you take the heat.
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And then they'll criticize,
criticize you when they don't
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think you're doing it right.
And I'm like, sit down until you
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stand up and put yourself on the
chopping block.
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Don't you dare come and
criticize me for how I'm doing
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it.
It makes me super mad.
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But you just do what you got to
do, you know?
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Absolutely.
So when did the harassment from
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from official start for you?
What and what did that look
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like?
What do you mean officials?
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I'm trying to do this so your
lawyer won't be mad at me.
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Wasn't and and I can edit this a
little later.
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Wasn't there school board
officials that ended up kind of
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harassing you or coming to your
house?
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President, Yeah, OK, so let's
see.
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OK, so in November 2022, I did
end up losing the election.
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And my opponent, one who she
had, even though she claimed to
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believe, you know, she's member
of the church, goes to my same
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stake, lives basically across
the street.
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She claimed to believe
everything we believed, but she
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took the endorsement of the
Equity Alliance and all these
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groups that stand for exactly
what is opposite of what our
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religion teaches, you know, but
whatever for political gain,
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people do whatever.
They'll compromise their values
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apparently.
But so I lost the election in
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November 2022 and at that point
it was kind of like this double
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edged sword because I was sad
that I lost.
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Like I wanted to win and and
throw it in the face of those
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people who had mocked me all
through my campaign.
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But at the same time had I won,
Murray's school district had
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already written a policy where
they intended to control and
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silence me.
And so by not winning, it kind
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of freed my voice.
Like, I no longer had to be
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bound by like, oh, I have to
always be professional, always
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be polite.
I have to always be this way.
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And I was like, I'm letting
loose.
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Like, I've taken so much heat
over this past year and I've
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been nothing but respectful and
polite.
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So, you know, I'm going to hold
my ground now, like, out the
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door with this politeness.
And that's when I started really
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exposing the issues hardcore in
Murray School District.
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And I would just, like, try to
get it out as far and wide as I
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could.
And I think Murray's school
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00:13:07,360 --> 00:13:11,200
district was really like, oh,
man, we thought we had it in the
224
00:13:11,200 --> 00:13:13,720
bag when she lost her election.
Like, now she'll shut up.
225
00:13:14,040 --> 00:13:17,520
And that's not what happened.
It was around this time that a
226
00:13:17,720 --> 00:13:22,040
volunteer from Murray's school
district, you started harassing
227
00:13:22,040 --> 00:13:23,600
us.
She showed up on my Facebook
228
00:13:23,600 --> 00:13:27,320
page and began like, mocking our
family and mocking my religion
229
00:13:27,320 --> 00:13:31,080
and mocking that I had lost the
school board.
230
00:13:31,080 --> 00:13:34,240
She mentioned like a personal
family issue where there had
231
00:13:34,240 --> 00:13:36,800
been abuse.
And there's kind of like a rift
232
00:13:36,800 --> 00:13:39,400
in my husband's family over it
because we were saying that
233
00:13:39,400 --> 00:13:41,760
abuse was wrong.
And they were saying, oh, it's
234
00:13:41,760 --> 00:13:43,760
fine.
You know, it wasn't egregious.
235
00:13:43,760 --> 00:13:48,680
And so she came onto my Facebook
page and was like mocking all of
236
00:13:48,680 --> 00:13:51,840
that kind of that issue.
And we were like, how does she
237
00:13:51,840 --> 00:13:55,480
know any of this about us?
And, you know, we kind of had
238
00:13:55,480 --> 00:14:00,160
some back and forth and.
She used verbiage that was
239
00:14:00,840 --> 00:14:05,720
pretty specific, like she had
been talking to to people to
240
00:14:05,720 --> 00:14:09,280
find out my family situation so
it was obvious she was stalking
241
00:14:09,280 --> 00:14:12,240
us to get personal hurtful
information.
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00:14:13,000 --> 00:14:17,760
So, so she's, she's like doing
deep dive kind of research into
243
00:14:17,760 --> 00:14:20,920
your family to try to make you
guys look bad.
244
00:14:21,480 --> 00:14:24,560
Right, Exactly.
And that was kind of what really
245
00:14:24,840 --> 00:14:28,520
bothered me about it because I
get trolled all the time, you
246
00:14:28,520 --> 00:14:31,720
know, and I constantly get like,
harassed for my religion and
247
00:14:31,720 --> 00:14:34,640
because I lost the school board
and whatever, like, same old,
248
00:14:34,640 --> 00:14:37,680
same old.
But this piece of gossip about
249
00:14:37,680 --> 00:14:41,360
our family was really like, I
was like, wow, you are very
250
00:14:41,360 --> 00:14:46,600
invested in my husband and me.
And so we did the back and forth
251
00:14:46,600 --> 00:14:50,400
on Facebook and almost from the
get go she was telling me, like,
252
00:14:50,480 --> 00:14:53,640
I'm here to defend Murray School
District teachers.
253
00:14:53,640 --> 00:14:56,040
They can't defend themselves, so
I'm going to defend them.
254
00:14:56,040 --> 00:15:00,120
And I've worked at this in the
PTA and I know these teachers.
255
00:15:00,320 --> 00:15:03,240
And so she from the get go was
basically saying she was working
256
00:15:03,240 --> 00:15:06,640
as a representative of Murray
School District and which now
257
00:15:06,640 --> 00:15:08,200
she's tried to distance herself
from that.
258
00:15:08,200 --> 00:15:14,560
But so, you know, and then also
she almost immediately was
259
00:15:14,560 --> 00:15:18,600
starting was saying like, I'm
going to sue you and I have so
260
00:15:18,600 --> 00:15:20,480
much money and I'm going to come
after you legally.
261
00:15:20,480 --> 00:15:22,640
So you better lawyer up and you
better have a good one.
262
00:15:22,640 --> 00:15:24,800
Like those were her.
Just wait to see how much money
263
00:15:24,800 --> 00:15:30,760
we can spend on lawyers.
Yeah, and so, you know, we
264
00:15:30,760 --> 00:15:33,760
basically were just like, leave
us alone, psycho and whatever.
265
00:15:33,760 --> 00:15:39,760
And then then on May 28th, 2023,
we had some people show up in
266
00:15:39,760 --> 00:15:44,760
our front yard and they just
were pounding in stakes into our
267
00:15:44,760 --> 00:15:47,880
grass and putting up pride
flags.
268
00:15:48,160 --> 00:15:51,080
And I, you know, I happened,
luckily I happened to be sitting
269
00:15:51,080 --> 00:15:52,840
in the front room.
I was about to write an e-mail
270
00:15:52,840 --> 00:15:55,400
and I see these people pull up
and park in front of our house
271
00:15:55,840 --> 00:15:57,520
and I'm like, what?
Maybe they're going to the
272
00:15:57,520 --> 00:15:58,720
neighbors.
But then when they walked into
273
00:15:58,720 --> 00:16:01,400
our yard and started hammering
stuff, I told my husband, like,
274
00:16:01,400 --> 00:16:05,240
grab your phone record.
You know, let's, because we've
275
00:16:05,240 --> 00:16:09,120
been dealing with this
psychopath for the past week,
276
00:16:09,120 --> 00:16:11,320
and I just figured it might be
related to that.
277
00:16:11,520 --> 00:16:14,640
So I kind of like, gathered my
kids and got them out of the
278
00:16:14,640 --> 00:16:18,400
situation, like downstairs so
they wouldn't be affected by it.
279
00:16:18,960 --> 00:16:22,800
And my husband went out and
recorded and yeah, it was her.
280
00:16:22,800 --> 00:16:25,560
She was sending 7 pride flags to
be sticked into our front yard
281
00:16:25,560 --> 00:16:29,040
as a mockery to our religious
beliefs and on everything we had
282
00:16:29,040 --> 00:16:33,160
stood for for the past two years
at that point.
283
00:16:33,240 --> 00:16:36,240
Pretty much, yeah.
Holy cow.
284
00:16:37,320 --> 00:16:41,000
And then when I assume you tried
to make contact with her about
285
00:16:41,000 --> 00:16:45,560
this, right?
We my method of dealing with
286
00:16:45,560 --> 00:16:48,240
this kind of stuff is just
posting about it, posting to the
287
00:16:48,240 --> 00:16:55,480
public because you when you
expose things that it usually
288
00:16:55,840 --> 00:16:59,960
makes it stop because nobody
wants exposure for their bad
289
00:16:59,960 --> 00:17:03,720
behavior.
So I just I posted it and shared
290
00:17:03,720 --> 00:17:06,000
what she was doing to our family
and.
291
00:17:06,079 --> 00:17:09,480
The police wouldn't do anything.
Yeah, at that point, the police
292
00:17:09,480 --> 00:17:11,079
hadn't.
Gotten it vandalism at some
293
00:17:11,079 --> 00:17:14,400
point.
It is sorry you can edit out me
294
00:17:14,400 --> 00:17:17,119
like itching my stupid eyes.
No, you're doing fine.
295
00:17:19,960 --> 00:17:21,520
It is.
It's vandalism.
296
00:17:21,520 --> 00:17:23,920
It's trespassing.
You know, we've read the laws.
297
00:17:23,920 --> 00:17:26,400
We know.
But the police were like, it's
298
00:17:26,400 --> 00:17:27,800
not trespassing.
We're not going to talk about
299
00:17:27,800 --> 00:17:28,640
it.
We're not going to tell you.
300
00:17:28,640 --> 00:17:32,760
And they were, they were just
biased the same as everyone
301
00:17:32,760 --> 00:17:34,000
else.
They're biased against my
302
00:17:34,000 --> 00:17:36,120
religious beliefs.
And so they wouldn't protect us.
303
00:17:36,120 --> 00:17:42,360
But I exposed it and within 3
minutes of me posting about it,
304
00:17:42,480 --> 00:17:45,400
this, this PTA volunteer shared
it.
305
00:17:45,840 --> 00:17:48,600
And she was like, look at happy
pride to our favorite Marie
306
00:17:48,600 --> 00:17:51,320
citizen, April to Spain.
And I mean, she was totally
307
00:17:51,320 --> 00:17:54,360
proud of it.
She just was like mocking us and
308
00:17:54,560 --> 00:17:57,600
taking credit for it.
And she was proud of it.
309
00:17:57,880 --> 00:18:02,080
So yeah, that's what happened
with and that's how it all kind
310
00:18:02,080 --> 00:18:05,000
of got started.
Geez.
311
00:18:05,000 --> 00:18:06,960
And nothing from the school
board on this, right?
312
00:18:06,960 --> 00:18:10,720
Like, look, if if the school
board made an honest mistake, I
313
00:18:10,720 --> 00:18:13,120
can I, I get that right?
Apologize.
314
00:18:13,120 --> 00:18:15,840
You know, I, hey, I, we got one
activist teacher here.
315
00:18:16,920 --> 00:18:22,320
It's been dealt with.
But like, when a PTAPTA
316
00:18:22,320 --> 00:18:27,080
volunteer comes after you,
right, you would expect Murray
317
00:18:27,080 --> 00:18:30,040
to do something to be like, hey,
not our people.
318
00:18:30,040 --> 00:18:34,440
Did, did, did the school board
ever come out and say, hey, we,
319
00:18:34,440 --> 00:18:37,600
we, we just want you to know
we're not with this or anything
320
00:18:37,600 --> 00:18:39,720
like that.
No, not at all.
321
00:18:39,760 --> 00:18:45,760
They just, I mean, I, I can only
assume, I can't say that they
322
00:18:45,760 --> 00:18:48,840
supported that type of thing,
but I don't think that they were
323
00:18:48,840 --> 00:18:52,720
ever going to make a statement
against it because they did not
324
00:18:52,720 --> 00:18:56,720
want to show any support for me.
You know, they were, I had
325
00:18:56,720 --> 00:18:59,360
exposed so many issues in
Murray's school district.
326
00:18:59,520 --> 00:19:03,120
You know, I had evidence of
their communications director,
327
00:19:03,120 --> 00:19:05,840
Doug Perry, reporting my post on
Facebook.
328
00:19:06,200 --> 00:19:09,480
You know he was following.
Reporting to who?
329
00:19:10,400 --> 00:19:13,000
Just where you report it so that
it to the.
330
00:19:14,200 --> 00:19:15,840
Facebook Police.
Right.
331
00:19:15,840 --> 00:19:19,240
Yeah, to the Facebook police so
that it will like either turn it
332
00:19:19,240 --> 00:19:22,840
off or whatever, just make it so
it doesn't get follows or I
333
00:19:22,840 --> 00:19:27,160
don't know what it does to it.
But I had evidence like I I had
334
00:19:27,160 --> 00:19:30,600
seen that he was following my
posts and reporting them over
335
00:19:30,600 --> 00:19:32,960
and over again.
And you know, this is the Murray
336
00:19:32,960 --> 00:19:34,760
School District.
He works for the school
337
00:19:34,760 --> 00:19:38,000
district.
And then, you know, when all
338
00:19:38,000 --> 00:19:40,800
this started happening with his
PTA president, I had to go
339
00:19:40,800 --> 00:19:43,960
through, I had to go submit a
grammar request to see how
340
00:19:43,960 --> 00:19:47,960
involved Murray School District
was with this whole flag
341
00:19:47,960 --> 00:19:50,880
incident.
And I requested her emails for
342
00:19:50,880 --> 00:19:55,560
like maybe a month or week of of
the school year during the the
343
00:19:55,560 --> 00:19:58,160
week of what all this stuff had
happened to me.
344
00:19:58,160 --> 00:20:03,880
And Doug Perry, he contacted
her.
345
00:20:04,720 --> 00:20:08,200
I believe he contacted her
because we got the grandma
346
00:20:08,200 --> 00:20:13,120
request back.
So first of all, the grandma was
347
00:20:13,120 --> 00:20:15,600
denied and.
Because.
348
00:20:16,000 --> 00:20:17,680
You wanted the emails.
Right.
349
00:20:17,680 --> 00:20:20,080
I wanted her emails with anyone
in Murray School District
350
00:20:20,080 --> 00:20:24,240
through like May 2023.
And so it was the denied and in
351
00:20:24,240 --> 00:20:26,440
their denial, they have to
explain why they're denying this
352
00:20:26,440 --> 00:20:29,720
request.
And the denial cited these
353
00:20:29,720 --> 00:20:30,840
codes.
I went through and read the
354
00:20:30,840 --> 00:20:34,280
codes and they were saying
things like this person's life
355
00:20:34,280 --> 00:20:39,360
would be in danger if if you
were to receive her emails or
356
00:20:39,360 --> 00:20:43,040
her safety is on the line.
Like these ridiculous things
357
00:20:43,040 --> 00:20:45,360
that I'm like, her life is not
in danger.
358
00:20:45,640 --> 00:20:47,880
I've never done anything of a
violent nature.
359
00:20:47,960 --> 00:20:49,840
They know that I've never been
violent.
360
00:20:49,840 --> 00:20:53,160
But it was clear that they were
playing along with this whole
361
00:20:53,160 --> 00:20:55,760
stalking injunction that she had
filed.
362
00:20:56,040 --> 00:21:00,520
And they used that as a way to
try to get me from receiving the
363
00:21:00,520 --> 00:21:02,480
evidence that I needed for my
case.
364
00:21:02,840 --> 00:21:07,880
And anyway, I got some legal
help involved and appealed the
365
00:21:07,880 --> 00:21:11,280
denial, and I ended up getting
them, which was great because it
366
00:21:11,280 --> 00:21:14,880
showed that she had ordered
those pride flags for me before
367
00:21:14,880 --> 00:21:17,000
any engagement online had even
begun.
368
00:21:17,200 --> 00:21:24,440
So clearly she was following me.
She was like, harassing me
369
00:21:24,880 --> 00:21:27,360
before I had.
I didn't even know who she was.
370
00:21:27,360 --> 00:21:29,120
I didn't even know that she
existed.
371
00:21:29,360 --> 00:21:32,040
So yeah.
Before she even made one comment
372
00:21:32,320 --> 00:21:34,560
on Facebook, she had already
ordered the pride flags.
373
00:21:35,240 --> 00:21:37,520
Yeah, and it was actually a
blessing in disguise that he had
374
00:21:37,520 --> 00:21:40,960
denied the grandma because I had
to resubmit the grandma and then
375
00:21:40,960 --> 00:21:45,280
I got his e-mail with her about
her injunction.
376
00:21:45,560 --> 00:21:48,600
And and so I have now evidence
of how the school district was
377
00:21:48,880 --> 00:21:54,680
also using the injunction to
silence me and to limit my
378
00:21:54,680 --> 00:21:59,440
abilities to expose the issues
in Murray's school district and
379
00:21:59,600 --> 00:22:02,680
in this in this case.
So it's definitely going to be
380
00:22:02,680 --> 00:22:04,760
an issue for them that they've
done that.
381
00:22:04,840 --> 00:22:06,600
It will.
Gotcha.
382
00:22:07,440 --> 00:22:14,080
So do do you feel like this PTA
volunteer was a do you think she
383
00:22:14,080 --> 00:22:15,880
was in cahoots with the school
district?
384
00:22:20,040 --> 00:22:24,600
I think that she was, she
thought she was going to be
385
00:22:24,600 --> 00:22:26,880
hero, a hero for the school
district.
386
00:22:26,960 --> 00:22:31,400
Like she's, as she said from the
beginning, like I know these
387
00:22:31,400 --> 00:22:34,720
teachers, they are great people
and they need someone to defend
388
00:22:34,720 --> 00:22:35,800
them.
And I'm going to do it.
389
00:22:36,080 --> 00:22:39,160
I can't point definitively to
the school saying that they
390
00:22:39,160 --> 00:22:43,600
asked her to do it.
I think she, of her own accord,
391
00:22:43,600 --> 00:22:46,320
probably did it and thought she
was going to be this great big
392
00:22:46,320 --> 00:22:51,520
hero for the school district.
But I think once she got herself
393
00:22:51,520 --> 00:22:54,160
into that mess, the school
district wasn't going to like,
394
00:22:54,360 --> 00:22:57,480
hang her out to dry.
So that's why the whole incident
395
00:22:57,480 --> 00:22:59,040
with the grandma request
happened.
396
00:22:59,040 --> 00:23:01,240
I think they were like, well,
we're going to help you because,
397
00:23:01,560 --> 00:23:05,720
you know, it benefits Murray
School District if I'm labeled a
398
00:23:05,720 --> 00:23:09,120
stalker.
So if this injunction is held up
399
00:23:09,360 --> 00:23:15,080
and I'm labeled a stalker, then
that damages my credibility as
400
00:23:15,080 --> 00:23:17,480
someone who exposes Murray
School District's issues.
401
00:23:17,600 --> 00:23:21,520
So it is whether or not they
asked her to do anything that
402
00:23:21,520 --> 00:23:25,120
after the fact they were they
clearly had motivation to say,
403
00:23:25,120 --> 00:23:31,200
let's help her out, help out
this PTA volunteer so that April
404
00:23:31,680 --> 00:23:35,200
can, you know, just shut up or
somehow lose credibility.
405
00:23:35,200 --> 00:23:38,280
And that'll help everyone in
this situation except, except
406
00:23:38,280 --> 00:23:41,120
April.
So I don't believe or at least I
407
00:23:41,200 --> 00:23:43,280
don't have evidence that they
asked her to do anything.
408
00:23:43,440 --> 00:23:45,840
But I do believe that once it
happened, they were helping,
409
00:23:46,040 --> 00:23:47,400
they were working together on
that.
410
00:23:48,160 --> 00:23:52,440
You know, it's, so I won't
mention the names, right?
411
00:23:52,440 --> 00:23:55,640
I know that there's litigation
pending and, and it's, it's
412
00:23:56,280 --> 00:23:58,920
there, There's some stuff here
that prevents us from from
413
00:23:58,920 --> 00:24:03,240
saying this person's name, but I
do my homework and I do my
414
00:24:03,240 --> 00:24:05,360
research, right?
So I went ahead and I was like,
415
00:24:05,360 --> 00:24:08,680
you know, let's just see who
this, who, who, who this person
416
00:24:08,680 --> 00:24:11,120
is.
And judging by their Facebook,
417
00:24:11,120 --> 00:24:13,640
they're definitely advocating,
right?
418
00:24:13,640 --> 00:24:17,600
I mean, they've got some,
they've got some slants that
419
00:24:17,600 --> 00:24:21,080
might fly in the face of of what
your beliefs are and what my
420
00:24:21,080 --> 00:24:23,080
beliefs are.
And that's fine.
421
00:24:23,080 --> 00:24:25,760
I don't have an issue with that.
You, you know, you can't like
422
00:24:25,760 --> 00:24:28,040
you do you, bro?
I don't, I have no issues,
423
00:24:28,400 --> 00:24:31,040
right?
But when when you use that
424
00:24:31,040 --> 00:24:35,400
platform to then persecute a
family, that's that's a little
425
00:24:35,400 --> 00:24:40,480
different and using that
position right to me as, as, as
426
00:24:40,480 --> 00:24:42,640
I read through it.
And I want to be clear, I am not
427
00:24:42,640 --> 00:24:44,920
putting words in April and
Tony's mouth.
428
00:24:44,920 --> 00:24:49,600
This is my my estimation of it.
She was a strong arm in there,
429
00:24:49,720 --> 00:24:52,960
right.
Like, and we have to remember
430
00:24:52,960 --> 00:24:56,480
that this is like 2022-2023,
right?
431
00:24:57,840 --> 00:25:03,720
The certain political entities
felt emboldened to shut down
432
00:25:03,720 --> 00:25:06,520
those who they disagreed with,
right?
433
00:25:06,880 --> 00:25:09,840
I think it would be might be a
little harder right now to get
434
00:25:09,840 --> 00:25:12,720
that done from our side of the
spectrum.
435
00:25:13,080 --> 00:25:15,280
But in those days, it wasn't
right.
436
00:25:15,480 --> 00:25:18,120
And they were coming with the
full weight of everything they
437
00:25:18,120 --> 00:25:22,800
could muster to get it done.
And that sort of stuff makes my
438
00:25:22,800 --> 00:25:24,240
blood boil.
Tony, what?
439
00:25:24,240 --> 00:25:25,840
Where are you at through all
this?
440
00:25:25,840 --> 00:25:29,280
I mean, I can only imagine what
it's like watching your wife
441
00:25:29,280 --> 00:25:34,720
have to fight this battle, dude.
Yeah, it's hard to see people
442
00:25:34,720 --> 00:25:37,960
attacking her online.
There's sometimes I would want
443
00:25:37,960 --> 00:25:40,760
to get on there and say stuff.
It.
444
00:25:41,280 --> 00:25:42,920
Probably wouldn't have been
good.
445
00:25:44,600 --> 00:25:50,680
So she's she's probably a lot
more reserved or.
446
00:25:51,560 --> 00:25:53,640
She holds.
Back better than I would, I
447
00:25:53,640 --> 00:25:58,880
think, because once I would say
things and, you know, get myself
448
00:25:59,400 --> 00:26:02,080
in trouble or get her in trouble
because I'm her husband.
449
00:26:02,080 --> 00:26:06,480
And so, yeah, it's not easy
seeing her get attacked and and
450
00:26:06,480 --> 00:26:10,600
being ostracized at your own in
your own ward for for views that
451
00:26:10,920 --> 00:26:14,040
everybody should have or you
think everybody in your ward
452
00:26:14,040 --> 00:26:18,680
should have, you know, but I
felt very ostracized in my own
453
00:26:18,840 --> 00:26:20,560
ward.
So it was crazy.
454
00:26:21,120 --> 00:26:23,680
Well, I'm glad you brought that
up because that's someplace I
455
00:26:23,680 --> 00:26:26,560
wanted to go.
What was what was the support
456
00:26:26,560 --> 00:26:28,920
from your local leaders at
church like?
457
00:26:28,920 --> 00:26:31,080
I mean, were they rallying to
your support?
458
00:26:31,080 --> 00:26:35,680
I mean.
It it felt like they didn't want
459
00:26:35,680 --> 00:26:38,440
to have eye contact with us if
we walked down the hall
460
00:26:38,440 --> 00:26:42,280
sometimes.
It I think I would say it
461
00:26:42,280 --> 00:26:44,160
depends on the leader because
like.
462
00:26:44,440 --> 00:26:47,520
There were there were some that
were supportive, but.
463
00:26:47,720 --> 00:26:53,200
Yeah, like there was, I mean you
like in Murray, there was a
464
00:26:53,200 --> 00:26:56,520
member of our stake presidency
who is flying pride flags and
465
00:26:56,520 --> 00:26:59,480
one of and he wore a pride flag
in his pocket every week to
466
00:26:59,480 --> 00:27:01,840
every church meeting, you know,
stake conference, whatever.
467
00:27:01,840 --> 00:27:07,280
He always wore it.
And I loved him like I love him
468
00:27:07,280 --> 00:27:10,320
as a person.
I don't think it's right that
469
00:27:10,320 --> 00:27:13,240
he's promoting those ideologies,
especially as a church leader at
470
00:27:13,240 --> 00:27:16,800
church.
But you know, he, I'm sure that
471
00:27:16,800 --> 00:27:19,520
he's not going to agree with
with my stand on the family
472
00:27:19,520 --> 00:27:24,720
proclamation and whatever.
And that's just the reality down
473
00:27:24,720 --> 00:27:25,920
there.
And I had we had bishopric
474
00:27:25,920 --> 00:27:28,240
members who were flying pride
flags and then we had like
475
00:27:28,240 --> 00:27:30,080
bishopric members who were
saying, great job.
476
00:27:30,080 --> 00:27:33,040
I totally support you.
So it really depended on the
477
00:27:33,040 --> 00:27:37,040
leader, but it was very like, it
was clearly something that,
478
00:27:37,040 --> 00:27:39,600
like, people were just kind of
like, don't want to touch that,
479
00:27:39,760 --> 00:27:41,240
Don't want to go there, you
know?
480
00:27:41,280 --> 00:27:44,680
And you kind of feel like even
if they privately supported you
481
00:27:45,320 --> 00:27:47,600
in public, they're like, oh,
don't want to go there because
482
00:27:47,600 --> 00:27:50,560
it's so divisive.
And I want to be a peacemaker.
483
00:27:50,600 --> 00:27:52,760
And it was the elephant in the
room.
484
00:27:52,760 --> 00:27:56,080
I felt like sometimes to talk
about the family proclamation at
485
00:27:56,080 --> 00:27:59,920
church, there were there were
definitely leaders who supported
486
00:27:59,920 --> 00:28:02,400
us.
And you know, they invited us to
487
00:28:02,400 --> 00:28:04,560
speak on what we were going
through at church.
488
00:28:05,960 --> 00:28:08,680
There were there were others who
were like, we got to have
489
00:28:08,680 --> 00:28:13,160
someone, someone else speak to
to go after them because.
490
00:28:13,160 --> 00:28:15,320
Yeah, I wouldn't say that.
They invited us to speak on what
491
00:28:15,320 --> 00:28:17,920
we were going through.
They just asked us to speak.
492
00:28:17,920 --> 00:28:23,280
But it was on a topic that was
very what we were going, what
493
00:28:23,280 --> 00:28:25,040
she was going through.
Right.
494
00:28:25,040 --> 00:28:28,840
And I did happen to mention the
stuff that I had gone through a
495
00:28:28,840 --> 00:28:31,480
little bit.
And then the next Sunday they
496
00:28:31,480 --> 00:28:34,360
had this super progressive
member of our ward get up,
497
00:28:34,440 --> 00:28:37,320
actually two of them get up and
speak on their progressive
498
00:28:37,400 --> 00:28:39,480
beliefs.
And it was, they were like, what
499
00:28:39,480 --> 00:28:45,000
did he say?
He said Jesus was a disruptor.
500
00:28:47,120 --> 00:28:49,120
Disruptor.
Yeah, I think he said Jesus was
501
00:28:49,440 --> 00:28:51,720
a disruptor.
And he just was basically
502
00:28:51,720 --> 00:28:55,240
implying like, if Jesus were
here, he'd be a disruptor and
503
00:28:55,360 --> 00:28:57,880
he'd support this LGBTQ
community.
504
00:28:57,880 --> 00:29:00,040
And.
And I was just like, and I wrote
505
00:29:00,040 --> 00:29:02,920
a post about it after that talk
because I'm like, yeah, Jesus
506
00:29:02,920 --> 00:29:05,760
was a disruptor and he still is.
And that's why the family
507
00:29:05,760 --> 00:29:08,400
Proclamation will get you more
hate.
508
00:29:08,400 --> 00:29:12,240
You want to fly a pride flag?
Everybody Pats you on the back.
509
00:29:12,520 --> 00:29:15,760
You can go to your parties all
the month of June, like have at
510
00:29:15,760 --> 00:29:18,200
it.
You fly the family proclamation.
511
00:29:18,360 --> 00:29:20,480
Oh, watch the death threats come
on it.
512
00:29:20,480 --> 00:29:23,080
And I've had them.
So you want to talk about being
513
00:29:23,080 --> 00:29:25,240
a disruptor?
That's what the family
514
00:29:25,240 --> 00:29:27,360
proclamation is.
I just, I just think it's
515
00:29:27,360 --> 00:29:31,600
hilarious, these church members
who think they're like on top of
516
00:29:31,600 --> 00:29:35,560
the game and they're just making
fools of themselves as far as
517
00:29:35,560 --> 00:29:36,960
I'm concerned.
Yeah.
518
00:29:37,480 --> 00:29:41,040
Yeah, no, I I could totally,
unfortunately, I could totally
519
00:29:41,040 --> 00:29:43,840
see that.
And Utah of all places, right?
520
00:29:43,840 --> 00:29:46,280
Like, that should be the
stronghold, right?
521
00:29:46,280 --> 00:29:50,160
Like every other, every other
place around there should be
522
00:29:50,160 --> 00:29:53,000
like be being able to flirt with
that and feel kind of safe.
523
00:29:53,000 --> 00:29:56,200
But in Utah, you would think,
no, no, no, no, you're close to
524
00:29:56,200 --> 00:29:58,400
church headquarters.
You better kind of toe the line
525
00:29:58,400 --> 00:30:02,480
on this, right?
And look, that dude is not
526
00:30:02,480 --> 00:30:05,560
wrong, right?
That Jesus was a disruptor.
527
00:30:05,560 --> 00:30:09,240
He's absolutely a disruptor, but
not quite in the way that I
528
00:30:09,240 --> 00:30:11,680
think he's figuring it would go,
right?
529
00:30:12,920 --> 00:30:17,520
And, and this thing about being
a peacemaker, I, I take
530
00:30:17,520 --> 00:30:21,520
exception with that a little bit
because while certainly Jesus
531
00:30:21,520 --> 00:30:28,040
wants us to be united on things,
unity within itself is not a
532
00:30:28,040 --> 00:30:30,360
great thing.
And let me explain, right?
533
00:30:31,320 --> 00:30:33,520
As Mormons, we strive for Zion,
right?
534
00:30:33,520 --> 00:30:38,400
We want that people of 1 heart
and one mind, but being of 1
535
00:30:38,400 --> 00:30:41,520
heart and one mind around
incorrect principles will bring
536
00:30:41,520 --> 00:30:43,720
disaster.
And you only have to look to the
537
00:30:43,720 --> 00:30:46,640
Tower of Babel in that, right?
If we go back to Genesis and we
538
00:30:46,640 --> 00:30:49,400
look the Lord's very clear
there, right?
539
00:30:49,840 --> 00:30:52,840
He says the people are united
and nothing will be kept from
540
00:30:52,840 --> 00:30:53,880
them.
So what does he do?
541
00:30:53,960 --> 00:30:56,800
He confuses their language.
So they're not united anymore.
542
00:30:57,120 --> 00:31:01,040
So unity for unity sake, I
cannot get behind the other
543
00:31:01,040 --> 00:31:04,880
thing I'd say even Jesus, the
Prince of Peace overturned a few
544
00:31:04,880 --> 00:31:08,880
tables and drew a whip, right?
And the other thing he said was,
545
00:31:09,320 --> 00:31:11,680
you know, think not that I've
come.
546
00:31:11,680 --> 00:31:16,320
I can't remember how I said it.
I bring the sort of.
547
00:31:16,400 --> 00:31:21,640
Yes, yes, that's exactly right.
You know, daughter, mother
548
00:31:21,640 --> 00:31:24,360
against daughter, father against
son, brother against brother,
549
00:31:24,360 --> 00:31:27,800
right.
So he's very much understanding
550
00:31:27,800 --> 00:31:30,680
that hey, there is a line and
that line is the truth.
551
00:31:30,840 --> 00:31:33,280
And if you're going to flirt
with that line, there's going to
552
00:31:33,280 --> 00:31:35,360
be divisions that happened,
right?
553
00:31:37,200 --> 00:31:39,640
And so it it.
Look at the Book of Mormon and
554
00:31:39,640 --> 00:31:45,920
all the, you know, Hammond and
and Captain Moroni and all the
555
00:31:45,920 --> 00:31:47,800
wars.
You know, there's there's a
556
00:31:48,360 --> 00:31:50,080
boundary you gotta set
sometimes.
557
00:31:51,200 --> 00:31:55,880
You know, I don't, I don't have
an issue with peacemaker.
558
00:31:56,920 --> 00:32:01,080
I think that we the, the, the
issue is that people
559
00:32:01,080 --> 00:32:03,640
misinterpret what it means to be
a peacemaker.
560
00:32:04,080 --> 00:32:07,640
People think that if they avoid
conflict, then they're
561
00:32:07,640 --> 00:32:10,360
peacemakers.
And that's not true peace.
562
00:32:10,360 --> 00:32:12,880
Like nothing will bring more
chaos.
563
00:32:13,200 --> 00:32:16,920
If you ask me, nothing will
bring more chaos to this world
564
00:32:17,200 --> 00:32:20,720
than the gender ideology that
they're pushing on our kids.
565
00:32:20,920 --> 00:32:23,840
You know, the family
proclamation shows us the way to
566
00:32:23,840 --> 00:32:26,240
have peace.
God showed us the way.
567
00:32:26,680 --> 00:32:30,800
And when you defend truth and
you defend true principles,
568
00:32:31,240 --> 00:32:36,080
you're making peace if you turn
a blind eye in order to avoid
569
00:32:36,080 --> 00:32:40,680
conflict.
And then the the ultimate result
570
00:32:40,680 --> 00:32:43,600
is, hey, these ideologies are
running the show.
571
00:32:43,760 --> 00:32:46,280
That's chaos.
That's the opposite of peace.
572
00:32:46,520 --> 00:32:51,120
I just think it's sad how many
church members don't understand
573
00:32:51,120 --> 00:32:55,320
on a fundamental level what
peacemaking really is.
574
00:32:55,760 --> 00:32:57,760
And I know that I'm a
peacemaker.
575
00:32:58,000 --> 00:33:00,480
Like I don't need to go to
church and have my church
576
00:33:00,480 --> 00:33:03,960
neighbors or whatever tell me
that I'm a peacemaker.
577
00:33:04,360 --> 00:33:09,520
I look to God and I know that
what I do is ultimately
578
00:33:09,520 --> 00:33:12,720
peacemaking.
Just like, you know, Ammon,
579
00:33:12,800 --> 00:33:16,040
people just want to focus on
like, but look, when he talked
580
00:33:16,040 --> 00:33:20,200
to Lamoni, he was peacemaking.
Well, was he not peacemaking
581
00:33:20,200 --> 00:33:24,080
when he scattered those people,
You know, just to to protect,
582
00:33:25,200 --> 00:33:27,200
right?
Like we need to look at
583
00:33:27,200 --> 00:33:30,080
everything as a whole and
recognize what peacemaking
584
00:33:30,080 --> 00:33:32,640
really is because we're not
going against the Prophet's
585
00:33:32,640 --> 00:33:36,000
counsel.
When we stand up for truth and
586
00:33:36,000 --> 00:33:39,520
people get mad, them getting
mad, that's their issue.
587
00:33:39,520 --> 00:33:41,520
That doesn't mean that I'm not
making peace.
588
00:33:41,520 --> 00:33:46,320
And the same goes for so many
situations, like when someone
589
00:33:46,320 --> 00:33:51,080
stands up for what's right and
it causes contention in the
590
00:33:51,080 --> 00:33:53,560
hearts of others, that doesn't
mean that I'm causing
591
00:33:53,560 --> 00:33:55,920
contention.
That means that maybe they need
592
00:33:55,920 --> 00:33:58,040
to realign themselves with
truth.
593
00:33:58,320 --> 00:34:02,440
That's their issue, not mine.
Yeah, and, and look, the
594
00:34:02,440 --> 00:34:05,160
scriptures even say there's a
time for peace and a time for
595
00:34:05,160 --> 00:34:08,719
war, right.
And even if you know what, I,
596
00:34:08,880 --> 00:34:10,960
I'm not sure I wouldn't have
embraced being like, yeah,
597
00:34:10,960 --> 00:34:12,520
you're right.
I'm not a peacemaker at the
598
00:34:12,520 --> 00:34:17,239
moment.
I'm here to take names and, and
599
00:34:17,719 --> 00:34:20,000
plant my foot where it needs to
go, right?
600
00:34:21,760 --> 00:34:24,480
Yeah, no, that, that's, that's
craziness.
601
00:34:24,840 --> 00:34:27,560
And so through this.
All right, What?
602
00:34:27,639 --> 00:34:31,600
When, when the lawsuit comes up,
what you guys thinking?
603
00:34:31,639 --> 00:34:34,800
I mean, do you remember the day
that you're served papers or
604
00:34:34,800 --> 00:34:36,840
something like that?
I do.
605
00:34:36,880 --> 00:34:44,719
Yeah, it was July 3rd, 2023 that
we got the papers and I was just
606
00:34:44,719 --> 00:34:49,560
like, OK, here we go.
You know, like it's annoying in
607
00:34:49,560 --> 00:34:52,040
that, OK, now I have to hire an
attorney and that we're going to
608
00:34:52,040 --> 00:34:57,960
have to pay attorney's fees.
But I wasn't, I never at any
609
00:34:57,960 --> 00:35:01,680
time, I never intended to back
down like I and I never will.
610
00:35:02,000 --> 00:35:06,840
So it, it's annoying, but it is
what it is.
611
00:35:06,840 --> 00:35:09,240
You got to go through what you
got to go through, and you just
612
00:35:09,240 --> 00:35:13,920
trust that if you're doing what
God wants you to do, He's going
613
00:35:13,920 --> 00:35:16,600
to help you through it.
Yeah, and she's a lot better at
614
00:35:16,600 --> 00:35:19,680
that than I am.
You know, sometimes I'm like,
615
00:35:19,680 --> 00:35:21,400
how are we going to pay for
stuff?
616
00:35:21,440 --> 00:35:24,880
And she just remind me, you
know, you just need to have, we
617
00:35:24,880 --> 00:35:27,240
need to have faith that God's
going to help us out.
618
00:35:27,760 --> 00:35:29,520
We're doing what he wants us to
do.
619
00:35:30,000 --> 00:35:34,640
So things are going to work out.
Don't, don't, don't stress about
620
00:35:34,640 --> 00:35:36,880
it.
It's, it's easier said than
621
00:35:36,880 --> 00:35:40,320
done, but it is.
It's, it's taking a step into
622
00:35:40,320 --> 00:35:44,040
the darkness, you know?
Absolutely what your kids think,
623
00:35:44,040 --> 00:35:46,560
right?
Because April, you said you had,
624
00:35:46,880 --> 00:35:49,440
you ended up being like, OK, I
got to get my kids out of you
625
00:35:49,520 --> 00:35:52,760
and good for out of here and
good for you for doing that,
626
00:35:53,200 --> 00:35:56,200
right.
What was your kids reaction to
627
00:35:56,200 --> 00:35:59,720
all this?
Well, we tried.
628
00:36:00,600 --> 00:36:03,000
First of all, I was devastated
to remove them from Murray
629
00:36:03,000 --> 00:36:04,520
School District.
My husband and I both grew up in
630
00:36:04,520 --> 00:36:06,600
Murray.
You know, I was like a third
631
00:36:06,600 --> 00:36:09,440
generation Murray citizen and I
had a lot of history there.
632
00:36:09,440 --> 00:36:13,960
I knew most of the community and
I was devastated.
633
00:36:14,200 --> 00:36:16,520
Plus they were in the Spanish
program, which I majored in
634
00:36:16,520 --> 00:36:18,720
Spanish.
I love Spanish so I cried for
635
00:36:18,720 --> 00:36:22,200
weeks taking them out.
They like at that point, we only
636
00:36:22,200 --> 00:36:25,840
had two kids in public school.
We have 6 kids, but they're so
637
00:36:25,840 --> 00:36:28,480
little or they were so little at
that time.
638
00:36:30,480 --> 00:36:34,880
I would say that my, my oldest,
he was a little sad about like
639
00:36:34,880 --> 00:36:38,000
some of the friends, but that he
wasn't going to see as much.
640
00:36:38,360 --> 00:36:41,120
We tried to charter school for a
month and then we just ended up
641
00:36:41,120 --> 00:36:43,760
feeling like home schools with
the way that we needed to go.
642
00:36:43,760 --> 00:36:46,560
And they loved it.
They loved home school, you
643
00:36:46,560 --> 00:36:51,640
know, But as far as the issues,
we try not to bring them into
644
00:36:51,640 --> 00:36:53,560
the issues as much.
They do kind of know what's
645
00:36:53,560 --> 00:36:55,440
going on.
And when I ran for school board,
646
00:36:55,640 --> 00:36:57,120
there were some emotional
moments.
647
00:36:57,120 --> 00:37:00,560
And like, there were times when
my husband gave me blessings and
648
00:37:00,720 --> 00:37:05,920
my kids were there for that.
And but we try not to bring them
649
00:37:05,920 --> 00:37:09,160
into, you know, they're kids.
We try to like shelter them from
650
00:37:09,160 --> 00:37:10,840
it.
And I hope that what they do
651
00:37:10,840 --> 00:37:15,480
witness, they're realizing,
like, wow, when these issues
652
00:37:15,480 --> 00:37:18,360
come up, I need to take a stand.
Like we're hopefully setting an
653
00:37:18,360 --> 00:37:22,800
example example for them that
you don't just turn a blind eye
654
00:37:22,800 --> 00:37:25,480
and let everyone else go through
it or let one or two other
655
00:37:25,480 --> 00:37:27,640
people go through it.
You take a stand if you believe
656
00:37:27,640 --> 00:37:30,720
in something.
And so that's my hope of what
657
00:37:30,720 --> 00:37:32,320
they're learning.
But for the most part, we really
658
00:37:32,320 --> 00:37:33,720
try to keep them sheltered from
it.
659
00:37:34,720 --> 00:37:37,920
You know, I, I remember when me
and my wife decided we were
660
00:37:37,920 --> 00:37:41,720
going to withdraw our our kids
out of public school and home
661
00:37:41,720 --> 00:37:44,360
teach them right.
First off, I was always the dude
662
00:37:44,360 --> 00:37:46,880
that was like, you never
homeschool, right?
663
00:37:46,880 --> 00:37:48,960
Your kids are going to be weird,
right.
664
00:37:49,320 --> 00:37:52,840
And then when I saw like.
Same same as me.
665
00:37:53,040 --> 00:37:57,320
I, I had it and, and it was
something similar, not quite as
666
00:37:57,320 --> 00:38:00,280
bad, I want to say, but there
was something similar that was
667
00:38:00,280 --> 00:38:05,200
going on right out there where,
where I had my kids out Norm,
668
00:38:05,480 --> 00:38:09,800
right, where, where, where
things were, were kind of going
669
00:38:09,800 --> 00:38:13,000
off the rails, right?
And, and me and my wife agonized
670
00:38:13,000 --> 00:38:14,960
over this.
We prayed about it a ton.
671
00:38:15,400 --> 00:38:17,840
You know, we have 6 kids as
well, right?
672
00:38:18,240 --> 00:38:20,640
And we're like, OK, what, what
are we going to do here?
673
00:38:20,720 --> 00:38:24,440
And, and as we prayed about the,
the spirit was take them out of
674
00:38:24,440 --> 00:38:27,240
school, right?
You can do this yourself.
675
00:38:28,520 --> 00:38:32,480
And I remember my wife, she was
like, I'm nervous about going in
676
00:38:32,480 --> 00:38:34,520
by myself to withdraw and would
you go with me?
677
00:38:34,520 --> 00:38:36,280
I'm like, sure, I ain't got a
problem with that, right?
678
00:38:36,280 --> 00:38:38,880
I'm blunt.
I don't have a have an issue
679
00:38:38,880 --> 00:38:41,680
with that.
And I went in and I remember
680
00:38:41,680 --> 00:38:44,320
this school counselor.
She's like, well, your kids are
681
00:38:44,320 --> 00:38:48,160
not going to fit into society.
And I was like, in this society,
682
00:38:48,200 --> 00:38:52,440
your terms are acceptable, like.
That's what we were hoping.
683
00:38:52,840 --> 00:38:54,280
Yeah, that's what we were hoping
for.
684
00:38:54,640 --> 00:38:57,360
What you what's your experience
been like homeschooling your
685
00:38:57,360 --> 00:39:01,280
kids?
It was good.
686
00:39:01,280 --> 00:39:04,520
We actually homeschooled for
three years.
687
00:39:04,520 --> 00:39:09,560
So yeah, at at this point,
they're back in public schools
688
00:39:09,800 --> 00:39:13,880
and the schools where they are
now.
689
00:39:14,920 --> 00:39:16,920
And I'm not, I'm not like
stupid.
690
00:39:16,920 --> 00:39:19,080
I'm not going to think, oh, I'm
in this area so there's no
691
00:39:19,080 --> 00:39:20,320
problem.
Right.
692
00:39:20,800 --> 00:39:25,120
But it's definitely not to the
extent that it was down in Salt
693
00:39:25,120 --> 00:39:29,440
Lake City like in our when my
kids were in elementary school
694
00:39:29,440 --> 00:39:31,920
at Marie, at first it wasn't
this way, but once COVID hit,
695
00:39:31,920 --> 00:39:35,240
that's when everything kind of
shifted and they let me into the
696
00:39:35,240 --> 00:39:37,440
classrooms.
They were like, Nope, you can't
697
00:39:37,440 --> 00:39:38,520
go back.
You might have COVID.
698
00:39:38,520 --> 00:39:40,240
And I'm like, I don't have
COVID.
699
00:39:40,400 --> 00:39:42,880
I'm wearing a mask.
Can I go back to my child's
700
00:39:42,880 --> 00:39:44,000
classroom and see what's going
on?
701
00:39:44,160 --> 00:39:45,400
Nope, you can't go in the
building.
702
00:39:45,520 --> 00:39:48,800
So I never even that whole
school year, I never even saw
703
00:39:48,800 --> 00:39:50,760
their classrooms.
But I found out from substitute
704
00:39:50,760 --> 00:39:53,400
teachers that there were pride
flags in the classrooms.
705
00:39:53,400 --> 00:39:55,160
You know, I found out from
teachers in the school that this
706
00:39:55,160 --> 00:39:59,240
whole LGBTQ curriculum was part
of the equity book bundles, not
707
00:39:59,240 --> 00:40:03,720
to mention the race part of it.
Like it's not just the gender
708
00:40:03,720 --> 00:40:05,600
ideology.
There were, they were teaching
709
00:40:05,720 --> 00:40:08,320
my kids that they, there's
something wrong with them just
710
00:40:08,320 --> 00:40:09,960
because they were born with
white skin.
711
00:40:10,160 --> 00:40:15,640
You know, like they're reading
from Ebermax Kendy and Kimberly
712
00:40:15,640 --> 00:40:19,080
Crenshaw, who like, she founded
critical race theory.
713
00:40:19,080 --> 00:40:21,880
She she founded the term, she
founded intersectionality.
714
00:40:21,880 --> 00:40:25,040
Like I did my research.
And then I looked into these
715
00:40:25,040 --> 00:40:28,160
equity book bundles and I'm
like, this is teaching all of
716
00:40:28,160 --> 00:40:31,280
this garbage about race and
sexuality and gender.
717
00:40:31,280 --> 00:40:33,800
And but yeah, they wouldn't even
let me go back and walk through
718
00:40:33,800 --> 00:40:36,760
the school.
Whereas where we are now, they
719
00:40:36,760 --> 00:40:39,360
will let me walk through the
school anywhere I want to.
720
00:40:39,360 --> 00:40:42,560
You know, there's nothing,
they're not hiding things from
721
00:40:42,560 --> 00:40:45,760
me.
And like, I know that there's
722
00:40:45,760 --> 00:40:48,480
there's always going to be
issues to some extent, but I've
723
00:40:48,480 --> 00:40:51,560
read the policies in the
district where we are now, and I
724
00:40:51,560 --> 00:40:57,040
feel like they're definitely on
the parents side rather than
725
00:40:57,040 --> 00:40:58,920
like with Murray's school
district, it was like parents
726
00:40:58,920 --> 00:41:01,720
were the enemy.
Parents were just in the way of
727
00:41:01,720 --> 00:41:06,200
the ideologies of these these
certain teachers who ran the
728
00:41:06,200 --> 00:41:09,000
district.
Did you ever get a chance to
729
00:41:09,000 --> 00:41:13,520
speak at any school board
meetings or anything like that?
730
00:41:14,080 --> 00:41:16,920
I did.
I spoke at local and state.
731
00:41:16,920 --> 00:41:18,760
On the state level, I spoke all
the time.
732
00:41:19,000 --> 00:41:21,200
So what was what was the
reception like there?
733
00:41:22,040 --> 00:41:26,360
Well, from the audience at large
as well as as the the the
734
00:41:26,400 --> 00:41:31,640
educators or the administrators.
Well, the audience, you know,
735
00:41:31,640 --> 00:41:34,680
you'd always have like your
opponents in the audience who
736
00:41:34,680 --> 00:41:38,080
would be like they're recording
or like they're going to take
737
00:41:38,080 --> 00:41:41,400
you down or whatever.
But it was always, you just have
738
00:41:41,400 --> 00:41:43,680
to like ignore those people.
They're always going to be
739
00:41:43,680 --> 00:41:47,640
there.
And so, and I would have some of
740
00:41:47,640 --> 00:41:49,920
the parents with me who agreed
with me and it was fine.
741
00:41:50,360 --> 00:41:53,320
The school board, the local
school board, they basically
742
00:41:53,320 --> 00:41:56,240
just nod their heads and then
they're like, get out of here.
743
00:41:56,280 --> 00:41:58,640
You know, if they don't care,
they don't do anything on the
744
00:41:58,640 --> 00:42:03,120
state level.
I'm sure a lot of people will.
745
00:42:03,280 --> 00:42:05,400
If you're in Utah, you've heard
about some of the issues with
746
00:42:05,400 --> 00:42:07,760
the Utah State Board of
Education and Natalie Klein and
747
00:42:07,760 --> 00:42:10,360
all that.
It was like the state board,
748
00:42:12,120 --> 00:42:14,240
it's the same thing.
They don't really care what you
749
00:42:14,240 --> 00:42:16,120
have to say.
You'll you'll have one or two
750
00:42:16,120 --> 00:42:19,640
people who care, but ultimately
it's they're not gonna listen.
751
00:42:19,680 --> 00:42:24,240
And actually I had public
comment when I was speaking at
752
00:42:24,240 --> 00:42:27,840
the state school board, I think
in November, it was October of
753
00:42:27,840 --> 00:42:34,280
2023, if I remember correct.
But they, they like stopped me
754
00:42:34,280 --> 00:42:36,120
from giving my comment because I
was criticism.
755
00:42:36,120 --> 00:42:38,480
Who was my school board
representative?
756
00:42:38,640 --> 00:42:43,120
She ran on the platform that
she's queer, you know, and I'm
757
00:42:43,120 --> 00:42:47,160
like, if she runs on the
platform that she's queer, then
758
00:42:47,160 --> 00:42:51,280
I can talk about her being queer
as my State Board of my state
759
00:42:51,280 --> 00:42:53,560
board representative.
So, you know, I was addressing
760
00:42:53,560 --> 00:42:57,720
that issue and why she wouldn't
stand up for, for our concerns
761
00:42:57,720 --> 00:42:59,400
and whatever.
And they silenced me.
762
00:42:59,400 --> 00:43:03,520
They stopped my comment.
And actually we were working on
763
00:43:03,520 --> 00:43:06,240
a First Amendment lawsuit in
that case, but because we moved,
764
00:43:06,240 --> 00:43:07,640
we weren't able to follow
through with it.
765
00:43:07,640 --> 00:43:12,080
But we had a a nonprofit who was
on it at that time.
766
00:43:12,840 --> 00:43:19,440
So yeah, it's crazy.
Yeah, no, it like I spoke at one
767
00:43:19,960 --> 00:43:27,920
at at one school board meeting
once and I remember we were
768
00:43:27,920 --> 00:43:29,920
talking about giving the
teachers a raise.
769
00:43:30,440 --> 00:43:33,440
Now, at this time, I was
actually living in Western Idaho
770
00:43:34,080 --> 00:43:37,720
and there was it, it was a
fairly small area, but the small
771
00:43:37,720 --> 00:43:41,120
area had like 6 administrators,
right?
772
00:43:41,720 --> 00:43:44,720
And I'm like they, they were
talking about, you know, we need
773
00:43:44,720 --> 00:43:46,600
more money.
We want to pass this bond.
774
00:43:47,560 --> 00:43:51,400
And I remember I asked the
question like, I agree, maybe we
775
00:43:51,400 --> 00:43:55,960
should pay our teachers more,
but we only have like 2 schools
776
00:43:56,040 --> 00:43:59,080
and we have 6 administrators.
Why, right.
777
00:43:59,080 --> 00:44:01,280
And each one of you make triple
digits.
778
00:44:01,840 --> 00:44:04,040
Is that really, you know, why
don't we go there?
779
00:44:04,480 --> 00:44:06,880
And they're not too happy to
hear from you in those
780
00:44:06,880 --> 00:44:10,480
circumstances, right?
Like, and, and that's what I've
781
00:44:10,480 --> 00:44:13,720
often felt like when it comes to
school board meetings, is that
782
00:44:14,240 --> 00:44:18,120
it's not really a place to voice
your, your dissent, right?
783
00:44:18,120 --> 00:44:21,720
They're going to, they're going
to tell you you're up in the
784
00:44:21,720 --> 00:44:27,120
night and that sort of thing.
How what, once you went to
785
00:44:27,120 --> 00:44:29,200
trial, how's, how's that been
going?
786
00:44:29,200 --> 00:44:31,160
What, what, what are the
attorneys like?
787
00:44:31,160 --> 00:44:33,040
Who?
Who's the attorney representing
788
00:44:33,680 --> 00:44:39,000
the PTA volunteer?
Her attorneys are Kennedy Nate
789
00:44:39,000 --> 00:44:46,320
and Austin Nate from the Ray
Quinney something. 22.
790
00:44:46,840 --> 00:44:49,920
She has two attorneys and I, I
don't know, like I've never
791
00:44:49,920 --> 00:44:51,720
looked into this firm, but
apparently they're not cheap.
792
00:44:51,720 --> 00:44:54,520
So it can't be, it's gotta be a
lot of money for her.
793
00:44:54,520 --> 00:44:58,960
But I mean, they're just doing
their, I don't know, like I'm of
794
00:44:58,960 --> 00:45:01,000
two thoughts, 'cause they're
just doing their job on the one
795
00:45:01,000 --> 00:45:06,120
hand, but on the other, I
believe that this case in and of
796
00:45:06,120 --> 00:45:10,760
itself is so unethical that an
honest, ethical attorney would
797
00:45:10,760 --> 00:45:16,240
say, I can't take this, you
know, this is based on untruths
798
00:45:16,240 --> 00:45:19,320
or half truths.
Yeah, there's just so many parts
799
00:45:19,320 --> 00:45:22,240
of this injunction is very
deceptive.
800
00:45:22,240 --> 00:45:23,960
I believe it's misleading the
court.
801
00:45:24,520 --> 00:45:27,360
And I don't know if like I can
say all that online, but but
802
00:45:27,520 --> 00:45:29,800
that's a fact.
Like, and I, you know, I have
803
00:45:29,800 --> 00:45:34,000
attorney friends who've seen it
and they're like, I wouldn't
804
00:45:34,000 --> 00:45:36,080
take this case.
If someone came to me with this,
805
00:45:36,240 --> 00:45:38,080
I would have to say this is
unethical.
806
00:45:38,080 --> 00:45:42,640
I can't do it.
So I just think like many in
807
00:45:42,640 --> 00:45:46,080
Utah, especially among the
church members, progressive
808
00:45:46,080 --> 00:45:49,600
church members, they have motive
to take someone like me down.
809
00:45:49,600 --> 00:45:51,240
So they're like, yeah, we'll
take this case.
810
00:45:51,600 --> 00:45:54,960
And they think that because
there's some big law firm and
811
00:45:54,960 --> 00:45:58,640
they cost a lot of money,
somehow that's, I guess they
812
00:45:58,640 --> 00:46:00,800
think that's going to intimidate
me or something.
813
00:46:01,080 --> 00:46:03,960
Or they think that that in and
of itself will make them win.
814
00:46:04,040 --> 00:46:07,600
I don't know.
But I'm just like, I have truth
815
00:46:07,600 --> 00:46:11,280
on my side.
Ultimately, I can't lose.
816
00:46:11,640 --> 00:46:14,880
I might lose in the short term.
Like, you know, I, I don't know
817
00:46:14,880 --> 00:46:17,920
exactly how everything's going
to go short term, but in the
818
00:46:17,920 --> 00:46:21,400
long term, I know I'm going to
win, whether it's this life or
819
00:46:21,400 --> 00:46:23,640
the next.
And I'm not worried about it.
820
00:46:24,120 --> 00:46:26,080
But you know, I, I just think
it's amazing that there are
821
00:46:26,080 --> 00:46:30,920
people willing to defend such
lies.
822
00:46:31,120 --> 00:46:34,920
And I think what they get from
it, they deserve so.
823
00:46:35,040 --> 00:46:40,960
And it's almost like I I wonder
if they take it personal because
824
00:46:40,960 --> 00:46:43,960
of the way they harass her on
the witness stand.
825
00:46:44,520 --> 00:46:48,080
It's like are they taking it
personal and they want to take
826
00:46:48,080 --> 00:46:55,640
out their angst towards April
and attack her because they
827
00:46:55,640 --> 00:46:58,480
don't agree with her beliefs
even though they have the same
828
00:46:58,480 --> 00:47:01,000
beliefs?
Well, we're members of the same
829
00:47:01,040 --> 00:47:02,480
church.
We don't have the same beliefs.
830
00:47:03,480 --> 00:47:09,720
But it's like they're offended
by me because I defend the
831
00:47:09,720 --> 00:47:12,760
beliefs of the church and they
don't want to believe that their
832
00:47:12,760 --> 00:47:14,240
church actually teaches those
things.
833
00:47:14,320 --> 00:47:18,040
You know, they're harassing me
on the stand trying to get me
834
00:47:18,200 --> 00:47:21,920
using the family proclamation as
impeachment evidence, which I
835
00:47:21,920 --> 00:47:26,800
just think it's crazy to think
you can impeach my testimony of
836
00:47:26,800 --> 00:47:29,840
the gospel, you know, and he's a
member of the church.
837
00:47:29,840 --> 00:47:34,400
And ultimately it's just they
make themselves look stupid and
838
00:47:34,400 --> 00:47:38,840
they get what they deserve
because I'm not an attorney, but
839
00:47:38,840 --> 00:47:40,840
I can hold my own with any
attorney.
840
00:47:40,920 --> 00:47:46,600
I, I may not know, like the
procedural side of things, but
841
00:47:46,600 --> 00:47:50,040
as far as arguing, I'm, I can
hold my own, especially when it
842
00:47:50,040 --> 00:47:54,000
comes to these issues.
I know my stuff and they do look
843
00:47:54,000 --> 00:47:56,560
stupid in my opinion.
They look really stupid in that
844
00:47:56,560 --> 00:48:01,240
courtroom.
So it's funny, but it's also not
845
00:48:01,240 --> 00:48:04,680
funny like the the financial
side of it and.
846
00:48:04,960 --> 00:48:06,640
It's a waste of everybody's time
in mind.
847
00:48:07,240 --> 00:48:09,400
Yeah.
Right, your guys's money, right,
848
00:48:09,680 --> 00:48:12,560
because you're the ones that
have to have to pay to defend
849
00:48:12,560 --> 00:48:17,200
yourselves, right?
This other PTA volunteer seems
850
00:48:17,200 --> 00:48:21,760
to be fairly well off right?
Like she can she, she has the
851
00:48:21,760 --> 00:48:24,120
wherewithal to throw money at
this right?
852
00:48:24,720 --> 00:48:28,240
And it, it, it really sticks in
my craw when, when they start
853
00:48:28,240 --> 00:48:32,120
using the law as a weapon in a
crowbar, right?
854
00:48:32,120 --> 00:48:33,760
And that's what it really is,
right?
855
00:48:33,760 --> 00:48:35,480
They want, they want you to sit
down.
856
00:48:35,480 --> 00:48:39,120
They want you to be quiet.
They don't want, and, and if
857
00:48:39,120 --> 00:48:43,040
you, you dare speak out against
them, they're, they're look,
858
00:48:43,040 --> 00:48:45,560
I'll, I'll be honest, just
looking at it from the outside,
859
00:48:46,040 --> 00:48:48,440
they're trying to make an
example of you, right?
860
00:48:48,840 --> 00:48:52,640
Do not talk, speak out.
Do not challenge us because
861
00:48:52,640 --> 00:48:56,360
we'll come down from on high and
we'll find somebody with pockets
862
00:48:56,360 --> 00:49:04,280
deep enough to go after you
right It it boggles my mind that
863
00:49:04,280 --> 00:49:09,200
your support of the the
proclamation of the the
864
00:49:09,200 --> 00:49:12,880
proclamation on the family is
this controversial, right?
865
00:49:12,880 --> 00:49:16,600
That that is the tool and, and
this is something else I wanted
866
00:49:16,600 --> 00:49:19,800
to draw attention to, right?
And I want to be clear on this,
867
00:49:20,560 --> 00:49:24,960
on this show, I, I, I have no
access to grind with the LDS
868
00:49:24,960 --> 00:49:27,200
church.
I enjoyed my time there, right?
869
00:49:27,520 --> 00:49:29,840
I felt like it prepared me for
other things.
870
00:49:30,160 --> 00:49:33,880
I, I really felt like my time
was well spent there.
871
00:49:34,320 --> 00:49:40,960
However, I think it needs to be
stated that things are not well
872
00:49:40,960 --> 00:49:46,200
in Zion, right?
That, and, and as I've looked
873
00:49:46,200 --> 00:49:51,880
back at this whole thing with
the LGBTQ movement, I think I
874
00:49:51,880 --> 00:49:56,520
think that that on a lot of our
part, we had this idea that, OK,
875
00:49:56,520 --> 00:50:00,840
they, they just want, they just
want tolerance, right?
876
00:50:01,360 --> 00:50:03,960
And I'm sure a lot of them did.
That's all they wanted.
877
00:50:04,480 --> 00:50:06,400
And we were willing to
accommodate that.
878
00:50:07,440 --> 00:50:12,360
But there was another faction on
that side that was playing to
879
00:50:12,360 --> 00:50:14,480
win.
And sometimes I don't think we
880
00:50:14,480 --> 00:50:18,320
quite understood who, that, who
our enemy was necessarily,
881
00:50:18,320 --> 00:50:20,160
right?
We thought we could be like,
882
00:50:20,160 --> 00:50:22,960
sure, yeah, except, you know,
tolerance.
883
00:50:22,960 --> 00:50:26,760
I get it, right?
I, I don't want anybody to
884
00:50:26,760 --> 00:50:32,840
suffer unduly, right.
However, there's a right and
885
00:50:32,840 --> 00:50:34,640
there's a wrong right.
And you know what?
886
00:50:34,640 --> 00:50:37,280
We can be good neighbors without
hugging it out on Sundays.
887
00:50:37,560 --> 00:50:43,000
And what I've seen from that
side of the aisle a lot is they
888
00:50:43,000 --> 00:50:46,560
don't want just tolerance.
They want someone to bow the
889
00:50:46,560 --> 00:50:54,040
knee and enfranchisement fully
right And in this sort of a deal
890
00:50:54,040 --> 00:51:00,760
there is there is way there The
the the the the chasm that
891
00:51:00,760 --> 00:51:03,000
separates us is way too much
right.
892
00:51:03,240 --> 00:51:08,520
There's no other religion in all
of Christianity that puts as
893
00:51:08,520 --> 00:51:13,920
much emphasis on mom and dad and
kids as Mormon Mormonism does,
894
00:51:14,040 --> 00:51:17,240
right?
And so to deny that is to deny a
895
00:51:17,280 --> 00:51:24,880
central tenant of your faith.
And so the LGBTQ thing doesn't
896
00:51:24,880 --> 00:51:26,720
really hold water with the
religion.
897
00:51:26,720 --> 00:51:30,040
Now, that doesn't mean you have
to be mean to him, which I don't
898
00:51:30,040 --> 00:51:33,280
see you guys have ever done.
But you guys certainly have
899
00:51:33,280 --> 00:51:37,000
stood your ground and rightfully
so when they've kind of came
900
00:51:37,000 --> 00:51:42,920
after your kids, right?
And that is very much the the
901
00:51:42,920 --> 00:51:45,960
tactic, right?
They know that, look at our age,
902
00:51:45,960 --> 00:51:48,080
they know we're not bending at
this point, right?
903
00:51:48,080 --> 00:51:51,400
They know who we are.
So they go after the kids 'cause
904
00:51:51,400 --> 00:51:53,000
they're still young and
impressionable.
905
00:51:55,160 --> 00:51:56,880
Right, I can make a comment here
if you want.
906
00:51:57,120 --> 00:52:00,920
Absolutely.
As far as I've discussed this
907
00:52:00,920 --> 00:52:05,840
before on another show, there's
a, there's a reason that they,
908
00:52:06,080 --> 00:52:10,080
the word 'cause when I found out
there were these equity book
909
00:52:10,080 --> 00:52:14,080
bundles in my kids schools in
2020, I'm like, oh great, fine,
910
00:52:14,080 --> 00:52:16,160
whatever.
I didn't really look into them,
911
00:52:16,280 --> 00:52:20,360
but I honestly thought that they
were called the equality book
912
00:52:20,360 --> 00:52:24,000
bundles, you know, equality.
And I was talking, once this
913
00:52:24,000 --> 00:52:26,720
stuff started happening, I was
talking to one of the moms in
914
00:52:26,720 --> 00:52:28,240
the school.
She's like the equity book
915
00:52:28,240 --> 00:52:30,240
bundles.
I'm like, you mean the equality
916
00:52:30,240 --> 00:52:32,040
book bundles?
She's like, no equity.
917
00:52:32,520 --> 00:52:36,320
And I'm like, OK, what's that?
So I'm like looking into it and
918
00:52:36,320 --> 00:52:39,560
that is there's a reason that
they're not using equality.
919
00:52:39,560 --> 00:52:42,720
They're using equity because it
means we get lifted above.
920
00:52:43,280 --> 00:52:47,920
And like everything I had looked
into with equity, it was like we
921
00:52:47,920 --> 00:52:51,960
the, the people who are
privileged white people,
922
00:52:51,960 --> 00:52:55,480
Christian, straight, they need
to sit on the back burner and
923
00:52:55,480 --> 00:52:58,080
let all the people who are on
the outside of the
924
00:52:58,080 --> 00:53:03,120
intersectional wheel, all the
persecuted or whatever, sit at
925
00:53:03,120 --> 00:53:04,960
the front.
We all need to put our beliefs
926
00:53:04,960 --> 00:53:10,120
on the back burner and let this
take takes like center stage.
927
00:53:10,360 --> 00:53:12,560
And that's what it that's really
what it was.
928
00:53:12,840 --> 00:53:18,360
And the the US Constitution
protects equality, you know, it
929
00:53:18,360 --> 00:53:20,240
doesn't.
There's nothing in there like it
930
00:53:20,240 --> 00:53:23,560
protects equity.
So yeah, I agree in that way
931
00:53:23,560 --> 00:53:30,000
that that is what was going on.
And as I researched, like I
932
00:53:30,000 --> 00:53:33,480
watched, there was this
conference called the Pride Not
933
00:53:33,480 --> 00:53:36,680
Prejudice Conference in Salt
Lake City with all the they
934
00:53:36,680 --> 00:53:40,600
invited all Utah educators.
By the Pride Center, Utah Pride.
935
00:53:40,640 --> 00:53:44,760
Center, yeah, put on by the Utah
Pride Center and the Murray
936
00:53:44,760 --> 00:53:47,440
Equity.
The Murray District Equity
937
00:53:47,600 --> 00:53:51,280
Council presented, which I
didn't even know they existed
938
00:53:51,280 --> 00:53:53,360
until this point.
So this was January 2021.
939
00:53:53,360 --> 00:53:57,240
I watched this presentation by
this, these people from my
940
00:53:57,240 --> 00:53:59,680
school district and they're
talking about the equity book
941
00:53:59,680 --> 00:54:05,720
bundles and you know all there
were like several presentations
942
00:54:05,720 --> 00:54:08,600
throughout this whole
conference.
943
00:54:08,960 --> 00:54:10,960
And Murray teachers were
presenting right?
944
00:54:11,360 --> 00:54:13,520
Yeah, so one of the
presentations was from Murray
945
00:54:13,520 --> 00:54:17,880
teachers, but some of them there
was this lady named Kyle Myers.
946
00:54:18,280 --> 00:54:24,360
And she actually straight up
said that they wanted to
947
00:54:24,520 --> 00:54:28,960
intergenerationally disrupt the
values that were being
948
00:54:28,960 --> 00:54:31,280
transmitted from parents to
children.
949
00:54:31,520 --> 00:54:33,680
It wasn't like it wasn't a
hidden message.
950
00:54:33,680 --> 00:54:37,800
It was written on her slide.
She was the keynote.
951
00:54:37,800 --> 00:54:41,200
She was the keynote speaker.
She's this lady who she raises
952
00:54:41,200 --> 00:54:44,640
her child like with no genders.
She she's never revealed what
953
00:54:44,640 --> 00:54:48,480
her child's real gender is.
And she's just, you know, all in
954
00:54:48,480 --> 00:54:50,880
on this ideology.
And she's queer.
955
00:54:52,000 --> 00:54:56,040
Yeah, she says she's queer.
But so no, it's not even.
956
00:54:56,240 --> 00:55:00,800
They don't even hide it that
their goal is to disrupt the
957
00:55:00,800 --> 00:55:03,360
intergenerational values that
are being transmitted from
958
00:55:03,360 --> 00:55:08,280
parents to children.
They are trying to create a
959
00:55:08,280 --> 00:55:11,920
schism or chasm or whatever you
want to call it between the
960
00:55:11,920 --> 00:55:15,040
parents and the children.
And that is what was happening
961
00:55:15,240 --> 00:55:18,240
in my child's third grade
classroom when his teacher read
962
00:55:18,240 --> 00:55:20,640
this book saying you can change
your gender.
963
00:55:20,800 --> 00:55:24,000
Your gender is like, you're not
necessarily a male or a female.
964
00:55:24,000 --> 00:55:26,880
You're whatever you want to be.
And if your parents tell you
965
00:55:26,880 --> 00:55:31,040
otherwise, they made a mistake.
It's straight up said your
966
00:55:31,040 --> 00:55:33,040
parents made a mistake in the
book.
967
00:55:33,280 --> 00:55:37,800
So they are pitting children
against their own parents and
968
00:55:39,200 --> 00:55:41,640
that's just not OK under any
circumstances.
969
00:55:41,640 --> 00:55:44,040
It's just not OK.
You know, if a parent in their
970
00:55:44,040 --> 00:55:47,960
home wants to teach their child
that he has no gender and he can
971
00:55:47,960 --> 00:55:50,520
switch whatever, I think that's
baloney.
972
00:55:50,640 --> 00:55:52,280
But that's a parent's right to
do that.
973
00:55:52,280 --> 00:55:54,640
If they want to teach their
children that bull crap, that's
974
00:55:54,640 --> 00:55:57,120
their right.
But if I want to teach my child
975
00:55:57,120 --> 00:56:00,760
that he's a child of God and
that his gender is immutable and
976
00:56:00,760 --> 00:56:04,960
it's eternal and it is a part of
who he is as a spirit, and it
977
00:56:04,960 --> 00:56:08,360
will never change.
And no amount of changing your
978
00:56:08,360 --> 00:56:11,640
clothes or wearing makeup or
whatever will change who you are
979
00:56:11,640 --> 00:56:15,160
as a son of God.
That is my not, not only my
980
00:56:15,160 --> 00:56:19,040
right, but my responsibility.
And no school system, no state
981
00:56:19,440 --> 00:56:24,680
system has the right to take
that responsibility away from me
982
00:56:24,880 --> 00:56:29,400
or to step in there and break
those those generational values
983
00:56:29,400 --> 00:56:31,920
that are that I'm intentionally
teaching my kids.
984
00:56:31,920 --> 00:56:36,360
And it was insane watching that
conference.
985
00:56:36,360 --> 00:56:40,280
I was floored.
And this is January 2021.
986
00:56:40,280 --> 00:56:45,200
I was like, at that time, I was
terrified for my children on a
987
00:56:45,200 --> 00:56:48,120
spiritual level.
And since that time, I've come
988
00:56:48,120 --> 00:56:50,720
to realize, like, I'm not
helpless.
989
00:56:51,600 --> 00:56:55,880
I can stand up to these people.
I can teach my children to stand
990
00:56:55,880 --> 00:56:59,600
up to these people.
And we're going to do that.
991
00:56:59,680 --> 00:57:01,040
We're going to do everything we
can.
992
00:57:01,240 --> 00:57:04,200
We're not helpless, you know.
Absolutely.
993
00:57:04,520 --> 00:57:07,320
God will strengthen us as we try
to do our best so.
994
00:57:07,600 --> 00:57:11,560
Absolutely.
You know who else pitted parents
995
00:57:11,560 --> 00:57:14,680
against, I mean kids against
their parents?
996
00:57:15,360 --> 00:57:19,200
The Nazis, right, I hate to I
and I'm not backing down from
997
00:57:19,200 --> 00:57:21,920
that.
I'm anticipating they to be
998
00:57:21,920 --> 00:57:23,920
honest.
I do you know, I'm one of these
999
00:57:23,920 --> 00:57:25,520
days I'm going to make A and so.
Did not.
1000
00:57:25,520 --> 00:57:29,600
On my hate mail, right?
But, but what's that, would you
1001
00:57:29,600 --> 00:57:30,520
say?
Sorry, Tony.
1002
00:57:30,720 --> 00:57:34,680
What did Mao if you if you
listen, James Lindsey compares
1003
00:57:34,680 --> 00:57:38,800
the pride movement to Mao the.
Chinese Cultural Revolution.
1004
00:57:38,800 --> 00:57:42,280
Yeah, Cultural revolution and
it's intersectionality is.
1005
00:57:42,280 --> 00:57:45,760
If you listen to Zevan Fleet,
you know who went through it,
1006
00:57:46,320 --> 00:57:48,440
and then you listen to like
people from the Soviet Union,
1007
00:57:48,440 --> 00:57:50,320
they talk about the
similarities.
1008
00:57:50,320 --> 00:57:55,200
And I mean, in the, in Mao's
Cultural Revolution, he had the,
1009
00:57:56,120 --> 00:58:00,920
the five blacks and the five
Reds, you know, and if you were
1010
00:58:00,920 --> 00:58:03,440
a black, you want to do, do
everything you could to get on
1011
00:58:03,440 --> 00:58:07,680
the side of the Reds.
And it's just so much like
1012
00:58:07,680 --> 00:58:10,080
intersectionality, where if
you're on this side of the
1013
00:58:10,120 --> 00:58:14,840
wheel, you know, if you're a
white, straight Christian, like
1014
00:58:15,160 --> 00:58:18,720
from middle and middle class,
whatever, you're so privileged.
1015
00:58:18,800 --> 00:58:20,880
But what can you do to become
less privileged?
1016
00:58:20,880 --> 00:58:23,640
You're the oppressor.
Yeah, oppressor, you can become
1017
00:58:23,640 --> 00:58:28,720
LGBTQ and all the sudden you're
a victim and and in reality, the
1018
00:58:28,720 --> 00:58:31,280
victims have the power in this
situation.
1019
00:58:31,280 --> 00:58:35,600
And so it motivates children to
join this side, and then all the
1020
00:58:35,600 --> 00:58:38,640
sudden they're like a special
person on the intersectional
1021
00:58:38,640 --> 00:58:41,480
will.
And it's just very in line with
1022
00:58:41,480 --> 00:58:44,600
what Mao's cultural revolution
did with the five blacks and the
1023
00:58:44,840 --> 00:58:46,480
five Reds.
And I think they had the four
1024
00:58:46,480 --> 00:58:50,240
olds and just all these ways
that they were trying to destroy
1025
00:58:50,240 --> 00:58:54,440
tradition and get children to be
against their parents.
1026
00:58:54,440 --> 00:58:59,200
Snitch on their parents and
you're about Nazi Nazi group or
1027
00:58:59,200 --> 00:59:01,040
whatever.
They did the same stuff.
1028
00:59:01,400 --> 00:59:09,200
Right, all of this, like this
whole trance thing, the LGBTQ
1029
00:59:09,560 --> 00:59:12,080
agenda as it's pushed by the
leaders up top.
1030
00:59:12,560 --> 00:59:16,400
What I see there is I see
they've managed to take the
1031
00:59:16,400 --> 00:59:21,720
worst parts of religion and the
worst parts of communism and
1032
00:59:21,720 --> 00:59:26,240
marry the two into some ungodly
abomination, right?
1033
00:59:26,560 --> 00:59:30,040
Because it's got all the
hallmarks of a religion, right?
1034
00:59:30,480 --> 00:59:32,560
Look, you can't change your
gender.
1035
00:59:32,560 --> 00:59:35,960
I don't care what anybody says,
you can't change it.
1036
00:59:36,120 --> 00:59:38,800
It's biology.
It's science, right?
1037
00:59:39,720 --> 00:59:42,560
And and it doesn't and it's.
Spiritual, you know.
1038
00:59:42,880 --> 00:59:45,640
And it's spiritual before.
We came to this world.
1039
00:59:45,960 --> 00:59:48,960
Yes, it's for us.
It's very much spiritual, right.
1040
00:59:49,640 --> 00:59:56,120
And so you have you absolutely
have to to have and and I'm
1041
00:59:56,120 --> 00:59:59,880
going to use this word not in
the context that that you and I
1042
00:59:59,880 --> 01:00:03,320
would use it as Mormons, but it
very much is a leap of faith to
1043
01:00:03,320 --> 01:00:05,880
go well.
I know biologically I'm a guy,
1044
01:00:05,880 --> 01:00:09,840
but I'm really a girl, right?
That is a, that is a leap of
1045
01:00:09,840 --> 01:00:14,400
faith, one that's not grounded
in anything, but nevertheless,
1046
01:00:14,400 --> 01:00:16,680
it's faith.
And then you're absolutely
1047
01:00:16,680 --> 01:00:20,440
right.
All of this stuff is has to work
1048
01:00:20,440 --> 01:00:24,920
through critical theory, right?
It's got to be done from an
1049
01:00:24,920 --> 01:00:27,880
oppressed oppressor class
designation.
1050
01:00:28,320 --> 01:00:32,680
And if that's the only way it
survives, and in today's society
1051
01:00:32,680 --> 01:00:37,720
where victimization seems to be
the the currency of choice, it
1052
01:00:37,720 --> 01:00:42,080
becomes very appealing, right?
No, no longer the cool kids, the
1053
01:00:42,080 --> 01:00:47,200
ones who played football or were
really good at academics.
1054
01:00:47,520 --> 01:00:51,520
Now the cool kids are the ones
who can claim victim status the
1055
01:00:51,520 --> 01:00:54,320
most.
And those up top have figured
1056
01:00:54,320 --> 01:00:58,720
out how to weaponize that.
And it is absolutely frightening
1057
01:01:00,440 --> 01:01:02,960
at this point.
How has the the trial been
1058
01:01:02,960 --> 01:01:04,320
going?
How long have you been going to
1059
01:01:04,320 --> 01:01:10,840
trial now?
We started in January 2024
1060
01:01:11,120 --> 01:01:16,160
because we did AU pepa hearing,
which U pepa is basically saying
1061
01:01:16,160 --> 01:01:18,600
that someone is trying to
silence you on a matter of
1062
01:01:18,600 --> 01:01:20,880
public concern.
They're using litigation to
1063
01:01:20,880 --> 01:01:24,480
silence you and I.
I feel like that law really
1064
01:01:24,480 --> 01:01:26,840
covered what we were doing.
But unfortunately, at the time I
1065
01:01:26,840 --> 01:01:32,680
had an attorney, he was just a
bad attorney and he really
1066
01:01:32,680 --> 01:01:33,960
wanted to argue the 1st
Amendment.
1067
01:01:33,960 --> 01:01:35,840
He thinks he's like a First
Amendment hero.
1068
01:01:35,840 --> 01:01:40,200
And so he kind of screwed over.
He didn't kind of, he 100%
1069
01:01:40,200 --> 01:01:43,200
screwed over our case on the
EUPEPA hearing.
1070
01:01:43,480 --> 01:01:48,880
And then I ended up firing him
and hired my current attorney,
1071
01:01:48,880 --> 01:01:50,880
Gaud Marrigani, who's just
amazing.
1072
01:01:51,320 --> 01:01:57,520
And so then we went to, we
finally went to, I don't know if
1073
01:01:57,520 --> 01:02:01,320
you call it trial or just
hearing of the hearing on like
1074
01:02:01,320 --> 01:02:05,160
the evidentiary hearing for this
whole stalking injunction in
1075
01:02:05,160 --> 01:02:08,520
January of 2025.
And then it was supposed to be 1
1076
01:02:08,520 --> 01:02:11,320
hearing, but it took so long
that we ended up having to do 2.
1077
01:02:11,320 --> 01:02:14,760
So our second hearing was just
this March of 2025.
1078
01:02:15,280 --> 01:02:20,280
And we will have the final It's
not AI don't know.
1079
01:02:20,280 --> 01:02:22,200
It's not a hearing.
It's just for the judge to like,
1080
01:02:22,200 --> 01:02:26,320
ask questions in July, yeah, in
July of 2025.
1081
01:02:26,320 --> 01:02:30,240
And then it should be done.
And as far as what I feel about
1082
01:02:30,240 --> 01:02:34,640
it, like how it's been going, I
think, and this is from my
1083
01:02:34,640 --> 01:02:41,040
perspective, but I think that
the truth is obvious and it
1084
01:02:41,040 --> 01:02:44,920
really depends on the judge.
The problem is that the stalking
1085
01:02:44,920 --> 01:02:49,280
statue itself is
unconstitutional because
1086
01:02:49,280 --> 01:02:53,600
technically you can stalk
someone by talking or posting
1087
01:02:53,600 --> 01:02:56,680
about them two times.
And you know, I have maintained,
1088
01:02:57,640 --> 01:03:00,480
right, Which I'm like, we all
annoy people, I guess we're all
1089
01:03:00,480 --> 01:03:03,400
stalkers and we all talk about
like people who affect us.
1090
01:03:03,400 --> 01:03:06,560
I guess if that is stalking,
then we're all stalkers.
1091
01:03:07,080 --> 01:03:13,120
But the the reality, I think the
reality is clear.
1092
01:03:13,120 --> 01:03:17,240
But if the judge decides to just
rule according to the letter of
1093
01:03:17,240 --> 01:03:20,280
the law, the way the stalking
statute is written, I could
1094
01:03:20,280 --> 01:03:23,160
potentially lose, which if that
happens, then we'll go to
1095
01:03:23,160 --> 01:03:25,920
appeals, you know, and who knows
how far up this will go.
1096
01:03:25,920 --> 01:03:28,240
And that's, again, like putting
our faith in God.
1097
01:03:28,240 --> 01:03:30,520
We're not going to back down at
any point.
1098
01:03:30,800 --> 01:03:32,680
Yeah, how much is freedom worth?
Right.
1099
01:03:33,120 --> 01:03:36,120
Exactly.
But as far as how I feel it's
1100
01:03:36,120 --> 01:03:38,200
been going, I think the truth is
obvious.
1101
01:03:38,480 --> 01:03:42,000
I think my testimony versus her
testimony, you can tell which
1102
01:03:42,000 --> 01:03:45,720
one of us is honest and which
one of us is a belligerent liar.
1103
01:03:45,720 --> 01:03:47,920
And I probably don't know.
I don't know if I should put
1104
01:03:47,920 --> 01:03:49,960
that in there.
But you can tell which one of us
1105
01:03:49,960 --> 01:03:54,080
is honest.
And I think it's, you know, I'm
1106
01:03:54,080 --> 01:03:59,280
not worried about the truth, but
it's all in the judge's hands
1107
01:03:59,320 --> 01:04:01,240
and depends on how she wants to
take this.
1108
01:04:01,320 --> 01:04:04,720
It's a public hearing so anybody
can go and down the OR pay for
1109
01:04:04,720 --> 01:04:08,640
the audio.
The testimony, it's actually, it
1110
01:04:08,760 --> 01:04:12,040
actually is laughable.
I was on the stand in March and
1111
01:04:12,040 --> 01:04:14,160
I was, which was just a couple
weeks ago.
1112
01:04:14,160 --> 01:04:18,640
I knew my stuff, you know, And
I, it was, I felt really good
1113
01:04:18,640 --> 01:04:21,920
about how it went down.
Yeah, there's a lot of a lot of
1114
01:04:22,360 --> 01:04:24,360
times you're like, is this real
life?
1115
01:04:24,640 --> 01:04:26,720
You know?
Yeah, it's they're actually
1116
01:04:26,960 --> 01:04:29,640
saying this in court.
It's crazy.
1117
01:04:30,280 --> 01:04:34,720
So you guys are driving from an
undisclosed location in Idaho to
1118
01:04:34,760 --> 01:04:39,040
your back to Murray whenever you
have a court date?
1119
01:04:40,200 --> 01:04:41,040
Right.
It's in Salt Lake.
1120
01:04:41,040 --> 01:04:42,680
But yeah, we drive to Salt Lake
every time.
1121
01:04:45,920 --> 01:04:52,720
OK, so look, I know that court
costs can be expensive.
1122
01:04:53,040 --> 01:04:56,720
Attorneys are expensive.
Do you guys have a GoFundMe or
1123
01:04:56,720 --> 01:04:59,840
something like that that I can
direct my my folks to if they
1124
01:04:59,840 --> 01:05:01,360
wanted to help out and
contribute?
1125
01:05:02,600 --> 01:05:07,040
Yeah, we have a Gibson Go like I
don't know the exact link, but
1126
01:05:07,040 --> 01:05:09,720
we can give it to you.
Yeah, If you give that to me, I
1127
01:05:09,720 --> 01:05:11,120
want to put that in the show
notes.
1128
01:05:11,120 --> 01:05:18,760
Because here's the thing, a lot
of us, you know, we're not,
1129
01:05:19,440 --> 01:05:21,760
we're not directly in the fight,
right?
1130
01:05:21,760 --> 01:05:25,880
We haven't had to deal with it
yet when when these things do
1131
01:05:25,880 --> 01:05:29,760
come up, right?
The American judicial system is
1132
01:05:29,760 --> 01:05:31,960
based off of starry decisis,
right?
1133
01:05:32,160 --> 01:05:37,080
Which basically says this, that
other judges don't want to
1134
01:05:37,400 --> 01:05:40,040
overturn some other judge's
decision, right?
1135
01:05:40,040 --> 01:05:44,280
It takes an extreme amount of
evidence to rule in the opposite
1136
01:05:44,280 --> 01:05:46,440
of that.
So in these sorts of things that
1137
01:05:46,440 --> 01:05:50,640
kind of set precedent, they're
super important, right?
1138
01:05:50,640 --> 01:05:55,360
Because this will be the norm
going forward, right?
1139
01:05:55,760 --> 01:06:00,360
And that's what that's why it
was so hard for a lot of years
1140
01:06:00,360 --> 01:06:05,480
to overturn Roe V Wade, right?
Was because that was the first
1141
01:06:05,480 --> 01:06:08,440
time that that case had went up
to the Supreme Court.
1142
01:06:08,840 --> 01:06:11,760
And it took us the better part
of 50 years to overturn it,
1143
01:06:11,800 --> 01:06:14,160
right?
So this, this kind of case is
1144
01:06:14,160 --> 01:06:16,760
important.
And we all have, if your kids go
1145
01:06:16,760 --> 01:06:20,040
to public school, you got skin
in the game, right?
1146
01:06:20,200 --> 01:06:25,360
You may not feel it right now,
but understand that if, if April
1147
01:06:25,360 --> 01:06:29,480
and Tony lose this case, they're
more emboldened.
1148
01:06:29,480 --> 01:06:32,480
So it behooves us all to, to
stand with them on this.
1149
01:06:32,480 --> 01:06:36,440
So send me that link and let me
put that in the episode show
1150
01:06:36,440 --> 01:06:39,120
notes.
Cause like, if everybody that I
1151
01:06:39,120 --> 01:06:41,960
talk to, it's not a huge
podcast, but if everybody
1152
01:06:42,280 --> 01:06:46,600
donated 5 bucks, right, it would
probably put you over the top of
1153
01:06:46,600 --> 01:06:50,280
where you needed to be, right?
And and I feel like this case is
1154
01:06:50,280 --> 01:06:56,000
important. $50,000 in the hole,
so I don't know if I.
1155
01:06:57,960 --> 01:06:59,480
Depends on how many people you
get if.
1156
01:06:59,480 --> 01:07:03,880
You have 10,000 then, yeah.
And look, a large chunk of my
1157
01:07:03,880 --> 01:07:07,320
audience are active LDS card
carrying members of the LDS
1158
01:07:07,320 --> 01:07:11,280
church, right?
So they should have and, and
1159
01:07:11,280 --> 01:07:14,560
look, if you're listening to
this podcast, chance, unless
1160
01:07:14,560 --> 01:07:17,240
you're listening to find out
what the enemy's saying, but
1161
01:07:17,320 --> 01:07:19,400
realistically, if you're
listening to this podcast,
1162
01:07:19,400 --> 01:07:21,920
chances are you're on kind of
the conservative side of the
1163
01:07:21,920 --> 01:07:26,000
spectrum, right?
And so I think I got some people
1164
01:07:26,000 --> 01:07:28,800
that can help.
What else can the audience do to
1165
01:07:28,800 --> 01:07:33,840
help you out?
I what would you?
1166
01:07:34,520 --> 01:07:40,520
Say, I would say don't depend on
the leadership of the church to
1167
01:07:40,520 --> 01:07:43,240
fight your battles.
You've got to be an agent unto
1168
01:07:43,240 --> 01:07:48,960
yourself and speak up in school
if you see something that's not
1169
01:07:48,960 --> 01:07:52,440
right, you got to be courageous
and and speak up.
1170
01:07:52,920 --> 01:07:56,120
And I'm not as good at that as
as she is, but she's a good
1171
01:07:56,120 --> 01:07:59,360
example.
Just read her post You'll you'll
1172
01:07:59,640 --> 01:08:03,160
you'll understand the issues
really well and and be able to
1173
01:08:03,160 --> 01:08:05,920
speak up a lot better.
When's your next court case?
1174
01:08:05,920 --> 01:08:07,360
When?
When's your next court date?
1175
01:08:08,720 --> 01:08:11,480
July 2nd is.
It open to the public.
1176
01:08:12,320 --> 01:08:14,520
It is, yeah.
Maybe we should just flood that
1177
01:08:14,520 --> 01:08:16,640
place.
That'd be.
1178
01:08:17,279 --> 01:08:19,600
Awesome.
Maybe it's time we just go ahead
1179
01:08:19,600 --> 01:08:24,880
and put butts and seats in there
and just just maybe, maybe be in
1180
01:08:24,880 --> 01:08:26,720
there.
Maybe it's time that happens
1181
01:08:27,640 --> 01:08:30,359
because this, this cannot stand,
right?
1182
01:08:30,359 --> 01:08:34,080
This, this just cannot stand.
So, yeah, well.
1183
01:08:34,399 --> 01:08:36,880
I want to hear what April.
Were you going to say something,
1184
01:08:37,040 --> 01:08:45,680
April, as far as what we can do?
I guess I would say like if you
1185
01:08:45,680 --> 01:08:48,680
see your neighbor taking a stand
on something, help him.
1186
01:08:49,000 --> 01:08:53,600
You know, don't not just behind
the scenes, like get out of your
1187
01:08:53,600 --> 01:08:58,080
comfort zone, go to school board
meetings with them, get a get in
1188
01:08:58,080 --> 01:09:03,680
public and have a little faith.
Because some people are so quick
1189
01:09:03,680 --> 01:09:07,520
to be like, oh, well, my job or
my whatever, or like, I'll
1190
01:09:07,520 --> 01:09:12,760
offend so and so or you know
what faith means you do
1191
01:09:12,760 --> 01:09:15,160
something when you're scared to
do it.
1192
01:09:15,479 --> 01:09:18,200
You know, faith means you do it
when it's hard.
1193
01:09:18,479 --> 01:09:20,880
If if it's easy for you, that's
not faith.
1194
01:09:21,319 --> 01:09:26,439
And I just like someone said in
Sunday school a while back, like
1195
01:09:26,600 --> 01:09:29,760
the church leaders might call on
us to do some really hard
1196
01:09:29,760 --> 01:09:31,399
things.
And I'm just sitting there like,
1197
01:09:32,080 --> 01:09:33,880
are you kidding me?
Did you?
1198
01:09:33,880 --> 01:09:36,600
The failing proclamation was
released 30 years ago.
1199
01:09:36,600 --> 01:09:39,200
Almost.
It's not going to be them
1200
01:09:39,200 --> 01:09:41,399
calling on us.
They already did.
1201
01:09:41,600 --> 01:09:46,160
The family proclamation says we
call upon responsible citizens
1202
01:09:46,160 --> 01:09:49,080
everywhere to uphold these
values.
1203
01:09:49,359 --> 01:09:52,479
And that's all I'm doing.
That's all I'm doing.
1204
01:09:52,960 --> 01:09:58,160
And you know, I just, I'm like
all the, all the church members
1205
01:09:58,200 --> 01:10:01,320
who are trying to justify flying
pride flags.
1206
01:10:01,680 --> 01:10:05,760
I'm sorry, unequivocally you're
on the wrong side of this issue.
1207
01:10:05,880 --> 01:10:09,960
It's in the long run and even
outside the as you know, cuz
1208
01:10:09,960 --> 01:10:13,120
when I first got into this, I
had to look at this, tried to
1209
01:10:13,120 --> 01:10:15,040
look at it from an objective
perspective.
1210
01:10:15,040 --> 01:10:17,760
Like even if I wasn't a member
of the church, would I take a
1211
01:10:17,760 --> 01:10:22,920
stand on these issues?
And like, I couldn't, I couldn't
1212
01:10:22,920 --> 01:10:28,760
deny that even from an objective
perspective or as as objective
1213
01:10:28,760 --> 01:10:32,240
as I could be, that I would have
to take a stand the same that
1214
01:10:32,240 --> 01:10:36,000
I'm standing now, because under
no circumstances is gender
1215
01:10:36,000 --> 01:10:38,560
ideology helpful to our children
or our our society.
1216
01:10:38,760 --> 01:10:42,040
And you don't have to believe in
God to, to see that that's true.
1217
01:10:42,120 --> 01:10:46,760
You know, it's just a fact.
And I just think regardless of
1218
01:10:46,760 --> 01:10:49,520
where you are in the church,
it's time to step up.
1219
01:10:49,560 --> 01:10:53,000
It's time not to let one or two
people take all the heat.
1220
01:10:53,240 --> 01:10:56,320
And like my husband said, you
shouldn't expect the apostles
1221
01:10:56,320 --> 01:10:59,160
and the prophet and all the your
church leaders to do it for you.
1222
01:10:59,400 --> 01:11:01,080
It's time to get off our own
butts.
1223
01:11:01,320 --> 01:11:06,240
We're the responsible citizens.
Get up and speak up and stop
1224
01:11:06,240 --> 01:11:10,680
being afraid and stop making
excuses because being a real
1225
01:11:10,680 --> 01:11:16,400
peacemaker means you defend the
doctrine that brings peace to
1226
01:11:16,400 --> 01:11:20,240
society.
Yeah, and I would say, you know,
1227
01:11:20,240 --> 01:11:23,640
for me, I'm not, I'm not as
quick on my feet with speaking
1228
01:11:23,640 --> 01:11:28,120
or whatever, but I have other
talents that I can use to
1229
01:11:28,160 --> 01:11:29,960
support people who are good at
it.
1230
01:11:29,960 --> 01:11:32,520
So if I see someone in the
school who's running for school
1231
01:11:32,520 --> 01:11:37,640
board, you know, I'm, I'm iti
can help with a web page or, you
1232
01:11:37,640 --> 01:11:41,040
know, get the word out somehow.
There's other I could drive.
1233
01:11:41,040 --> 01:11:44,240
I could, I can do other things
if I don't have as strong of a
1234
01:11:44,240 --> 01:11:47,880
talent in speaking or whatever.
So, or if you have a lot of
1235
01:11:47,880 --> 01:11:50,840
money, you can, you could donate
money, but there's a lot of
1236
01:11:50,840 --> 01:11:55,360
things you can do that don't
involve having to be like the
1237
01:11:55,360 --> 01:11:57,960
speaker.
You know there's lots of things
1238
01:11:57,960 --> 01:11:59,720
we can do, right?
Absolutely.
1239
01:12:00,440 --> 01:12:03,640
Well, guys, is there anything
else you want to add before we
1240
01:12:03,640 --> 01:12:06,400
wrap up here?
This matters.
1241
01:12:06,400 --> 01:12:09,400
This matters to the public.
And, you know, that's all we're
1242
01:12:09,400 --> 01:12:14,000
trying to do is spread awareness
so that the public knows what's
1243
01:12:14,000 --> 01:12:17,120
going on and that they can take
a stand in their spheres of
1244
01:12:17,120 --> 01:12:18,720
influence 'cause that's what
needs to happen.
1245
01:12:18,720 --> 01:12:21,400
We all need to be doing that.
And, you know, I think that's
1246
01:12:21,400 --> 01:12:24,520
the way that's what this is
really about.
1247
01:12:24,600 --> 01:12:27,200
You know, it's not about talking
about this stupid psychopath
1248
01:12:27,200 --> 01:12:31,080
lady, but there's 500 million
other people just like her.
1249
01:12:32,280 --> 01:12:34,600
Right, she's just one foot
soldier in a larger.
1250
01:12:35,120 --> 01:12:36,440
Right.
Yeah, and she.
1251
01:12:36,440 --> 01:12:38,120
Just happens to have more money
than some of them.
1252
01:12:38,120 --> 01:12:41,000
And when this happens to other
people, it needs to be exposed.
1253
01:12:41,160 --> 01:12:44,680
And we appreciate people like
you who are willing to, you
1254
01:12:44,680 --> 01:12:49,040
know, Yeah.
Like when you said that you're
1255
01:12:49,040 --> 01:12:51,920
not a member of our church to
me, I'm, I don't care.
1256
01:12:52,000 --> 01:12:54,240
I don't care what church you're
a part of.
1257
01:12:54,240 --> 01:12:56,840
I don't care.
Like, even if it was like I told
1258
01:12:56,840 --> 01:12:59,800
my husband I would do an
interview even with people who
1259
01:12:59,800 --> 01:13:04,240
hate me because this is an issue
that affects everyone.
1260
01:13:04,480 --> 01:13:07,200
And whether or not you believe
in my religion, it's a religious
1261
01:13:07,200 --> 01:13:10,480
freedom issue.
We all want, we should all want
1262
01:13:10,480 --> 01:13:13,680
religious freedom.
And I'm not afraid to be
1263
01:13:13,680 --> 01:13:17,320
interviewed by anyone from any
side because I think truth holds
1264
01:13:17,320 --> 01:13:20,400
its ground and I all I'm doing
is speaking the truth.
1265
01:13:20,440 --> 01:13:24,240
So you know.
Well, and, and here's the other
1266
01:13:24,240 --> 01:13:26,160
thing I I've said about
religion, right?
1267
01:13:26,160 --> 01:13:30,360
And look, I'm a guy who doesn't
have any members of the church
1268
01:13:30,360 --> 01:13:33,040
on either side of his family.
I came into this thing so cold.
1269
01:13:34,120 --> 01:13:38,840
And the, the thing was, the
thing that drew me to the gospel
1270
01:13:38,840 --> 01:13:40,880
was this idea of, OK, you know
what?
1271
01:13:40,880 --> 01:13:44,760
Here's the truth, right?
And it doesn't change and it's
1272
01:13:44,760 --> 01:13:48,000
unwavering and it's constant,
and you can hit your wagon to
1273
01:13:48,000 --> 01:13:53,920
it.
And at some point, this idea
1274
01:13:53,920 --> 01:13:58,640
that that that these sorts of
things, these fundamental
1275
01:14:01,040 --> 01:14:04,560
principles, right?
Gender, it doesn't change,
1276
01:14:04,600 --> 01:14:06,520
right?
It's just, it doesn't.
1277
01:14:06,520 --> 01:14:10,120
God doesn't make mistakes when
he creates his children.
1278
01:14:10,680 --> 01:14:15,680
And this idea that that it does
it kind of you, you kind of
1279
01:14:15,680 --> 01:14:18,960
paint God as less than what he
is, right?
1280
01:14:19,200 --> 01:14:22,640
You're what you're saying is, is
that God makes mistakes.
1281
01:14:22,640 --> 01:14:28,240
Well, I have no time or
inclination to follow a God that
1282
01:14:28,240 --> 01:14:32,040
does make mistakes, right.
If, if I wanted to do that, I
1283
01:14:32,040 --> 01:14:37,920
would just get into politics.
And so, yeah, I, I, I really
1284
01:14:38,080 --> 01:14:40,280
have no time for, for that sort
of thing.
1285
01:14:40,280 --> 01:14:42,640
And it's, it's rough stuff.
I get it.
1286
01:14:42,640 --> 01:14:44,240
You guys, you guys have been
through the wringer.
1287
01:14:44,240 --> 01:14:46,080
But I appreciate you standing
up.
1288
01:14:46,080 --> 01:14:49,600
And like I said, we'll, we'll
see if we can't garner some
1289
01:14:49,600 --> 01:14:52,040
support, even if we have to
shelve this episode.
1290
01:14:52,040 --> 01:14:55,680
I think there's other things I
can do to, to get your story out
1291
01:14:55,680 --> 01:14:59,920
front and then see if we can't
get you some help both
1292
01:15:00,360 --> 01:15:02,920
financially and just some
overall support.
1293
01:15:03,640 --> 01:15:06,280
Awesome.
All right, guys, you, you guys
1294
01:15:06,280 --> 01:15:07,840
are great.
You're rock stars.
1295
01:15:08,240 --> 01:15:10,120
Keep me informed.
Let me know how it's going.
1296
01:15:11,080 --> 01:15:12,240
Hey, we will.
Thanks.
1297
01:15:12,440 --> 01:15:15,200
Thanks for having us on.
April, Tony, it was sure good to
1298
01:15:15,200 --> 01:15:16,960
meet you and I think you guys
are amazing.
1299
01:15:17,920 --> 01:15:19,360
Yeah, Well, thank you for having
us on.
1300
01:15:19,360 --> 01:15:21,880
We really appreciate all you're
doing to help us out.
1301
01:15:21,960 --> 01:15:22,760
No sweat.
00:00:38,840 --> 00:00:43,120
April Tony, how's it going?
Good, good, good.
2
00:00:43,960 --> 00:00:45,280
Well.
How are you?
3
00:00:45,640 --> 00:00:47,680
Let let's be honest, you're here
talking with me.
4
00:00:47,680 --> 00:00:49,440
Something's got to be wrong,
right?
5
00:00:49,840 --> 00:00:55,320
Like this this particular topic,
I'm, I'm doing great, but man,
6
00:00:55,320 --> 00:00:57,400
I'll, I'll tell you what, I've
been friends with you for a
7
00:00:57,400 --> 00:01:00,880
little while on Facebook and I
always admired how you just like
8
00:01:01,760 --> 00:01:04,360
the family proclamation.
I was there for it, right?
9
00:01:04,360 --> 00:01:08,640
Like when, when I first became a
Mormon that came out that year,
10
00:01:08,800 --> 00:01:11,520
right?
I was, I was in the LDS church
11
00:01:11,520 --> 00:01:14,480
that time it came out and I was
like, well, this is kind of a no
12
00:01:14,480 --> 00:01:16,520
brainer, right?
And then?
13
00:01:17,320 --> 00:01:21,000
Now like 20 some years later,
I'm like, oh, apparently it's
14
00:01:21,000 --> 00:01:24,800
not a no brainer.
So and as I've seen you guys
15
00:01:24,800 --> 00:01:27,200
get. 30 years this year.
What's that?
16
00:01:27,600 --> 00:01:29,040
It'll be 30 years.
This year.
17
00:01:29,360 --> 00:01:32,400
It was 952025.
Yeah.
18
00:01:32,640 --> 00:01:35,160
You're right.
I did not need that reminder.
19
00:01:35,280 --> 00:01:38,240
Holy cow.
No.
20
00:01:39,280 --> 00:01:41,960
So yeah, I've been following
what's been happening.
21
00:01:41,960 --> 00:01:43,240
You guys.
It's nuts.
22
00:01:44,040 --> 00:01:46,720
So are you guys doing OK?
I mean.
23
00:01:48,240 --> 00:01:52,240
We're fine.
The only thing that is hurting
24
00:01:52,240 --> 00:01:55,840
is, you know, it's a financial
burden, which she intend.
25
00:01:55,920 --> 00:01:59,200
I mean, it was intended to be
that way, so.
26
00:01:59,480 --> 00:02:03,160
Yeah, unfortunately that's the
truth, right?
27
00:02:03,160 --> 00:02:06,880
Often times when it comes to
lawsuits, if someone can
28
00:02:06,880 --> 00:02:10,759
outspend you, they just bank on
you settling, right, Right.
29
00:02:10,840 --> 00:02:13,440
And so it's.
I think this, this person
30
00:02:13,440 --> 00:02:16,240
thought that we wouldn't do
anything.
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00:02:16,240 --> 00:02:19,120
We would just accept it so that
we wouldn't have to pay, which I
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00:02:19,120 --> 00:02:22,560
think most people would.
But for me, the principle of the
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00:02:22,560 --> 00:02:26,600
matter, I, I couldn't do that.
And luckily I have a husband
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00:02:26,600 --> 00:02:29,280
who's very supportive and we,
you know, we're going to make it
35
00:02:29,280 --> 00:02:31,440
work financially.
That's awesome.
36
00:02:31,560 --> 00:02:33,520
That's awesome.
Why don't you take us through
37
00:02:33,520 --> 00:02:35,320
the whole story here?
What what happened?
38
00:02:35,320 --> 00:02:37,720
Let's fill in the audience here
on on what happened.
39
00:02:38,640 --> 00:02:42,160
So it started in January of
2021.
40
00:02:42,160 --> 00:02:45,120
My kids were in public school in
Murray City School District,
41
00:02:45,120 --> 00:02:48,640
Utah.
And I found out, I think it was
42
00:02:48,640 --> 00:02:53,080
January 8th, 2021.
I, my son came home from school
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00:02:53,080 --> 00:02:55,960
and a neighbor texted me and she
was like, did you hear what
44
00:02:55,960 --> 00:02:58,200
happened at school today?
They read this book like my
45
00:02:58,200 --> 00:03:01,480
daughter came home saying that
they read this book about how to
46
00:03:01,480 --> 00:03:04,520
change your gender.
And you know, in the book it
47
00:03:04,520 --> 00:03:10,240
says parents made a mistake at
like, I was like, what I was, I
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00:03:10,240 --> 00:03:13,960
was absolutely shocked because,
you know, I figured like in this
49
00:03:13,960 --> 00:03:16,200
is a part of our world, my kids
are gonna have to face these
50
00:03:16,200 --> 00:03:18,360
realities that people believe
this kind of stuff.
51
00:03:18,880 --> 00:03:21,400
But I thought it would be like
in junior high from their peers.
52
00:03:21,760 --> 00:03:25,000
I was absolutely shocked that it
was my son's third grade
53
00:03:25,000 --> 00:03:27,000
teacher.
These are class of 8 year olds
54
00:03:27,360 --> 00:03:30,480
and she's teaching this as if
it's truth to all these little
55
00:03:30,480 --> 00:03:32,560
kids.
So, you know, on that point, I
56
00:03:32,560 --> 00:03:35,960
started looking into what was
going on and asking questions.
57
00:03:35,960 --> 00:03:39,320
I emailed the teacher and the
principals and they were
58
00:03:40,160 --> 00:03:42,600
basically like, we don't answer
to you.
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00:03:42,960 --> 00:03:45,440
We do what we want and here's
our district memo and here's how
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00:03:45,440 --> 00:03:48,720
we have permission.
And at that point I was like,
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00:03:48,920 --> 00:03:51,080
no, no, no, that's not how this
is going to go.
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00:03:51,080 --> 00:03:54,440
And I started looking into the
laws and figuring out how I what
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00:03:54,440 --> 00:03:58,800
I could do to fight it.
And I wrote this long e-mail
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00:03:59,720 --> 00:04:03,600
citing these different Utah
codes around like teaching
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00:04:03,760 --> 00:04:08,560
sexuality and whatever those
kind of issues and how parents
66
00:04:08,560 --> 00:04:11,880
are supposed to have knowledge
of what's going on and they're
67
00:04:11,880 --> 00:04:13,560
supposed to receive parental
consent.
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00:04:14,080 --> 00:04:17,480
And, you know, I sent that.
It was this big long e-mail,
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00:04:17,480 --> 00:04:20,120
like one in the morning.
I sent it to the principals and
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00:04:20,120 --> 00:04:23,480
the Superintendent.
And I was like, either this gets
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00:04:23,480 --> 00:04:26,960
fixed or I'm taking action, you
know, basically a legal threat.
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00:04:27,000 --> 00:04:31,040
And so I, at that point, they,
the next day they were all just
73
00:04:31,040 --> 00:04:33,560
calling me and saying, let's
talk about this, let's work on
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00:04:33,560 --> 00:04:35,640
it.
And I got a, a lawyer on the
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00:04:35,640 --> 00:04:39,880
phone with me and my husband and
we basically went over the codes
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00:04:39,880 --> 00:04:43,960
and we said, you know, this is
not within, this is not within
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00:04:43,960 --> 00:04:47,800
the legal rights that you have.
Although they definitely made
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00:04:47,800 --> 00:04:53,440
their arguments like the, the HR
guy, he said, well, this isn't
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00:04:53,440 --> 00:04:56,880
sexuality, it's gender identity.
So this doesn't fall under the
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00:04:56,880 --> 00:04:58,680
code.
It's not A and I was like, what?
81
00:04:59,640 --> 00:05:04,000
So I had to at that point I was,
I was like praying like, God
82
00:05:04,800 --> 00:05:08,480
help me to know how to take on
this fight.
83
00:05:08,480 --> 00:05:13,400
Because technically you could
say gender identity isn't
84
00:05:13,400 --> 00:05:17,280
sexuality, Although I think
they're so interconnected that
85
00:05:17,280 --> 00:05:20,400
you can't really separate them.
But that was their argument.
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00:05:20,880 --> 00:05:24,320
And I do feel like God answered
that prayer.
87
00:05:24,320 --> 00:05:29,520
He helped me to realize even in
that phone call, I felt inspired
88
00:05:29,520 --> 00:05:35,800
to say to compare reading this
book about this transgender kid.
89
00:05:36,040 --> 00:05:40,520
I said, would you ever read a
book to my, my child's third
90
00:05:40,520 --> 00:05:42,760
grade class about what it means
to be a Mormon?
91
00:05:43,320 --> 00:05:46,920
Would you ever explain to them,
Oh, here's how you, the Holy
92
00:05:46,920 --> 00:05:51,360
Ghost feels and here's how you
identify as a child of God?
93
00:05:51,600 --> 00:05:54,280
And maybe your parents made a
mistake if they taught you that
94
00:05:54,280 --> 00:05:57,960
you weren't a child of God.
Like I just, that just came to
95
00:05:57,960 --> 00:06:00,280
me in that phone call.
I mentioned it and I'm like, I
96
00:06:00,280 --> 00:06:02,120
know you wouldn't, you would
never teach that.
97
00:06:02,360 --> 00:06:04,240
So why are you teaching this
stuff?
98
00:06:04,520 --> 00:06:08,880
It's essentially A belief system
to this class of 8 year olds.
99
00:06:08,880 --> 00:06:12,600
And, you know, they agreed to
shut down this equity book
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00:06:12,600 --> 00:06:16,240
bundles program, although they
denied that there was any LGBTQ
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00:06:16,240 --> 00:06:18,760
content in it.
They ended up claiming that a
102
00:06:18,760 --> 00:06:21,680
student brought in the book.
But I submitted thousands of
103
00:06:21,680 --> 00:06:23,920
dollars worth of grammar
requests and got all these
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00:06:23,920 --> 00:06:27,280
emails and all these meeting
notes and found that in fact,
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00:06:27,520 --> 00:06:30,280
there was this content was part
of the books.
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00:06:30,280 --> 00:06:34,120
I got an e-mail where the vice
principal was ordering this
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00:06:34,120 --> 00:06:37,960
insane book called, oh, what is
it called?
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00:06:38,920 --> 00:06:42,600
It feels good to be yourself.
If you look up that book, it's
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00:06:42,600 --> 00:06:47,560
this little story book about
like this child was 2 genders
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00:06:47,560 --> 00:06:50,600
and this child was no gender and
this child was transgender.
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00:06:50,600 --> 00:06:53,920
And it just goes and teaches all
these doctrines about gender
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00:06:53,920 --> 00:06:56,840
ideology.
I have an e-mail of the vice
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00:06:56,840 --> 00:06:59,680
principal ordering 4 copies of
that book for the book program,
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00:06:59,800 --> 00:07:02,640
yet they still deny it to me.
Oh no, this was no not part of
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00:07:02,640 --> 00:07:06,160
the book program at any time.
So they they were just liars and
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00:07:06,200 --> 00:07:09,120
it was a crazy situation, but I
did everything I could to fight
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00:07:09,120 --> 00:07:11,600
it.
And then what ended up happening
118
00:07:11,600 --> 00:07:16,120
after that April?
The school district lied.
119
00:07:16,360 --> 00:07:21,240
They just, they, they had this
school board meeting in February
120
00:07:21,240 --> 00:07:24,800
of 2021.
So, you know, like a few weeks
121
00:07:24,800 --> 00:07:27,400
after that incident had
happened, the principal from my
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00:07:27,400 --> 00:07:30,280
child's school got up.
She told her little story about
123
00:07:30,280 --> 00:07:32,360
what happened.
It wasn't accurate.
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00:07:32,880 --> 00:07:35,280
The whole school board like
played along.
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00:07:35,960 --> 00:07:39,960
I was like watching this whole
meeting, like I was so confused.
126
00:07:39,960 --> 00:07:46,200
Now I know it's, you know, I was
being gaslit and they they
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00:07:46,200 --> 00:07:49,080
didn't intend to fix anything.
When we got the grandma request
128
00:07:49,080 --> 00:07:52,680
back with our emails, it was
like Doug Perry, who was the
129
00:07:54,040 --> 00:07:57,160
communications director, he was
just like, OK, we're watching
130
00:07:57,160 --> 00:07:58,560
the news.
This is what they're saying.
131
00:07:58,560 --> 00:08:00,360
You know, what can we do to fix
this narrative?
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00:08:00,560 --> 00:08:04,000
It wasn't anything about like,
what's best for the kids, what's
133
00:08:04,000 --> 00:08:06,560
going on with the parents?
How can we help them feel
134
00:08:06,560 --> 00:08:08,280
better?
They didn't care at all about
135
00:08:08,280 --> 00:08:10,240
that.
It was only their public,
136
00:08:12,000 --> 00:08:13,760
public.
What do you call that image?
137
00:08:13,800 --> 00:08:16,720
Only their public image that
they were worried about.
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00:08:16,720 --> 00:08:21,000
And so I ended up just
withdrawing my kids from Murray
139
00:08:21,000 --> 00:08:24,240
School District and we started
home schooling after that
140
00:08:24,360 --> 00:08:27,480
because I couldn't trust that
school district and they didn't
141
00:08:27,480 --> 00:08:29,200
care about making things better
for parents.
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00:08:29,200 --> 00:08:30,840
All they cared about was their
image.
143
00:08:30,840 --> 00:08:35,799
And unfortunately in Murray, UT,
it's a very progressive area
144
00:08:35,799 --> 00:08:38,880
nowadays and all of Salt Lake
City is I think and.
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00:08:39,880 --> 00:08:43,159
She she took it up to all the
people she should have taken it
146
00:08:43,159 --> 00:08:46,680
up to, and nothing changed.
So what does she do?
147
00:08:47,000 --> 00:08:50,280
She's pregnant, right?
You're pregnant or you just had
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00:08:50,280 --> 00:08:53,480
a kid and you ran for school
board?
149
00:08:54,280 --> 00:08:57,040
Oh, yeah.
So you're, that was in 2021 when
150
00:08:57,040 --> 00:09:00,920
that started.
And I did, I was, I was pregnant
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00:09:00,920 --> 00:09:05,360
in 2021 and I had my last baby
in January 2022.
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00:09:05,800 --> 00:09:08,560
And then I turned in the papers
to run for school board.
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00:09:08,560 --> 00:09:14,400
I think it was February of 2022.
You know, it was a crazy wild
154
00:09:14,400 --> 00:09:17,000
ride.
But I really did every single
155
00:09:17,000 --> 00:09:21,760
thing that I could to try to
enact change in my community,
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00:09:21,760 --> 00:09:25,160
and it was just really hard.
It was really hard.
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00:09:25,560 --> 00:09:28,120
What about other parents?
Did other parents come out in
158
00:09:28,120 --> 00:09:33,000
support of what you were saying
or were were did you feel like
159
00:09:33,000 --> 00:09:37,000
it was just you guys?
A few did, like we formed a
160
00:09:37,080 --> 00:09:39,080
parent group.
We called it the Murray Parents
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00:09:39,080 --> 00:09:43,120
Rights Council.
And I had like, So there's one
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00:09:43,120 --> 00:09:46,680
mom, her name's Laurel Fetzer.
She lives, She lives two
163
00:09:46,680 --> 00:09:48,800
streets.
Well, she did live 2 streets
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00:09:48,800 --> 00:09:51,920
over from me and she was a huge
help.
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00:09:52,000 --> 00:09:54,520
You know, she actually, she ran
for state school board the year
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00:09:54,520 --> 00:09:58,520
that I ran for local school
board.
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00:09:59,040 --> 00:10:03,120
But, and so we formed a little
parent group, maybe like 40
168
00:10:03,120 --> 00:10:07,360
parents or so that were really,
but it was mainly like me and
169
00:10:07,360 --> 00:10:10,640
Laurel really doing the majority
of the work and the other
170
00:10:10,640 --> 00:10:13,760
parents, a lot of parents, like
a lot of times they'd be like,
171
00:10:13,880 --> 00:10:17,400
oh, yeah, I'm rooting for you.
Great job, like whispering to
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00:10:17,400 --> 00:10:21,760
you behind closed doors.
But when it comes time to get in
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00:10:21,760 --> 00:10:25,320
the public arena, they don't
want to do it because like as
174
00:10:25,320 --> 00:10:28,600
I've endured, you are targeted,
you are harassed, you are
175
00:10:28,600 --> 00:10:33,040
mocked, you are, you know, just
treated like crap all over the
176
00:10:33,040 --> 00:10:35,480
place.
And they don't want that on
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00:10:35,480 --> 00:10:37,640
them.
So they'll quietly say they
178
00:10:37,640 --> 00:10:41,920
support you, but they won't
really stand with you publicly.
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00:10:42,000 --> 00:10:45,040
And it's funny.
Yeah, it's a hard thing.
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00:10:45,040 --> 00:10:47,360
A lot of them will, like, watch
you take the heat.
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00:10:47,360 --> 00:10:49,920
And then they'll criticize,
criticize you when they don't
182
00:10:49,920 --> 00:10:53,240
think you're doing it right.
And I'm like, sit down until you
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00:10:53,240 --> 00:10:55,480
stand up and put yourself on the
chopping block.
184
00:10:55,640 --> 00:10:58,080
Don't you dare come and
criticize me for how I'm doing
185
00:10:58,080 --> 00:10:59,560
it.
It makes me super mad.
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00:10:59,560 --> 00:11:01,800
But you just do what you got to
do, you know?
187
00:11:02,000 --> 00:11:04,840
Absolutely.
So when did the harassment from
188
00:11:04,880 --> 00:11:08,200
from official start for you?
What and what did that look
189
00:11:08,200 --> 00:11:10,400
like?
What do you mean officials?
190
00:11:11,680 --> 00:11:14,240
I'm trying to do this so your
lawyer won't be mad at me.
191
00:11:17,880 --> 00:11:20,760
Wasn't and and I can edit this a
little later.
192
00:11:21,320 --> 00:11:23,960
Wasn't there school board
officials that ended up kind of
193
00:11:23,960 --> 00:11:27,480
harassing you or coming to your
house?
194
00:11:27,760 --> 00:11:32,720
President, Yeah, OK, so let's
see.
195
00:11:32,720 --> 00:11:36,800
OK, so in November 2022, I did
end up losing the election.
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00:11:36,800 --> 00:11:41,480
And my opponent, one who she
had, even though she claimed to
197
00:11:41,480 --> 00:11:45,440
believe, you know, she's member
of the church, goes to my same
198
00:11:45,440 --> 00:11:47,720
stake, lives basically across
the street.
199
00:11:49,600 --> 00:11:51,440
She claimed to believe
everything we believed, but she
200
00:11:51,440 --> 00:11:56,040
took the endorsement of the
Equity Alliance and all these
201
00:11:56,040 --> 00:11:59,480
groups that stand for exactly
what is opposite of what our
202
00:11:59,480 --> 00:12:02,360
religion teaches, you know, but
whatever for political gain,
203
00:12:02,360 --> 00:12:04,440
people do whatever.
They'll compromise their values
204
00:12:04,440 --> 00:12:08,240
apparently.
But so I lost the election in
205
00:12:08,240 --> 00:12:15,720
November 2022 and at that point
it was kind of like this double
206
00:12:15,720 --> 00:12:19,360
edged sword because I was sad
that I lost.
207
00:12:19,360 --> 00:12:23,680
Like I wanted to win and and
throw it in the face of those
208
00:12:23,680 --> 00:12:26,240
people who had mocked me all
through my campaign.
209
00:12:26,520 --> 00:12:29,680
But at the same time had I won,
Murray's school district had
210
00:12:29,680 --> 00:12:32,240
already written a policy where
they intended to control and
211
00:12:32,240 --> 00:12:35,920
silence me.
And so by not winning, it kind
212
00:12:35,920 --> 00:12:39,160
of freed my voice.
Like, I no longer had to be
213
00:12:39,160 --> 00:12:42,000
bound by like, oh, I have to
always be professional, always
214
00:12:42,000 --> 00:12:43,520
be polite.
I have to always be this way.
215
00:12:43,800 --> 00:12:45,560
And I was like, I'm letting
loose.
216
00:12:45,560 --> 00:12:49,880
Like, I've taken so much heat
over this past year and I've
217
00:12:49,880 --> 00:12:51,920
been nothing but respectful and
polite.
218
00:12:51,920 --> 00:12:54,280
So, you know, I'm going to hold
my ground now, like, out the
219
00:12:54,280 --> 00:12:58,720
door with this politeness.
And that's when I started really
220
00:12:58,720 --> 00:13:01,360
exposing the issues hardcore in
Murray School District.
221
00:13:01,360 --> 00:13:04,480
And I would just, like, try to
get it out as far and wide as I
222
00:13:04,480 --> 00:13:07,360
could.
And I think Murray's school
223
00:13:07,360 --> 00:13:11,200
district was really like, oh,
man, we thought we had it in the
224
00:13:11,200 --> 00:13:13,720
bag when she lost her election.
Like, now she'll shut up.
225
00:13:14,040 --> 00:13:17,520
And that's not what happened.
It was around this time that a
226
00:13:17,720 --> 00:13:22,040
volunteer from Murray's school
district, you started harassing
227
00:13:22,040 --> 00:13:23,600
us.
She showed up on my Facebook
228
00:13:23,600 --> 00:13:27,320
page and began like, mocking our
family and mocking my religion
229
00:13:27,320 --> 00:13:31,080
and mocking that I had lost the
school board.
230
00:13:31,080 --> 00:13:34,240
She mentioned like a personal
family issue where there had
231
00:13:34,240 --> 00:13:36,800
been abuse.
And there's kind of like a rift
232
00:13:36,800 --> 00:13:39,400
in my husband's family over it
because we were saying that
233
00:13:39,400 --> 00:13:41,760
abuse was wrong.
And they were saying, oh, it's
234
00:13:41,760 --> 00:13:43,760
fine.
You know, it wasn't egregious.
235
00:13:43,760 --> 00:13:48,680
And so she came onto my Facebook
page and was like mocking all of
236
00:13:48,680 --> 00:13:51,840
that kind of that issue.
And we were like, how does she
237
00:13:51,840 --> 00:13:55,480
know any of this about us?
And, you know, we kind of had
238
00:13:55,480 --> 00:14:00,160
some back and forth and.
She used verbiage that was
239
00:14:00,840 --> 00:14:05,720
pretty specific, like she had
been talking to to people to
240
00:14:05,720 --> 00:14:09,280
find out my family situation so
it was obvious she was stalking
241
00:14:09,280 --> 00:14:12,240
us to get personal hurtful
information.
242
00:14:13,000 --> 00:14:17,760
So, so she's, she's like doing
deep dive kind of research into
243
00:14:17,760 --> 00:14:20,920
your family to try to make you
guys look bad.
244
00:14:21,480 --> 00:14:24,560
Right, Exactly.
And that was kind of what really
245
00:14:24,840 --> 00:14:28,520
bothered me about it because I
get trolled all the time, you
246
00:14:28,520 --> 00:14:31,720
know, and I constantly get like,
harassed for my religion and
247
00:14:31,720 --> 00:14:34,640
because I lost the school board
and whatever, like, same old,
248
00:14:34,640 --> 00:14:37,680
same old.
But this piece of gossip about
249
00:14:37,680 --> 00:14:41,360
our family was really like, I
was like, wow, you are very
250
00:14:41,360 --> 00:14:46,600
invested in my husband and me.
And so we did the back and forth
251
00:14:46,600 --> 00:14:50,400
on Facebook and almost from the
get go she was telling me, like,
252
00:14:50,480 --> 00:14:53,640
I'm here to defend Murray School
District teachers.
253
00:14:53,640 --> 00:14:56,040
They can't defend themselves, so
I'm going to defend them.
254
00:14:56,040 --> 00:15:00,120
And I've worked at this in the
PTA and I know these teachers.
255
00:15:00,320 --> 00:15:03,240
And so she from the get go was
basically saying she was working
256
00:15:03,240 --> 00:15:06,640
as a representative of Murray
School District and which now
257
00:15:06,640 --> 00:15:08,200
she's tried to distance herself
from that.
258
00:15:08,200 --> 00:15:14,560
But so, you know, and then also
she almost immediately was
259
00:15:14,560 --> 00:15:18,600
starting was saying like, I'm
going to sue you and I have so
260
00:15:18,600 --> 00:15:20,480
much money and I'm going to come
after you legally.
261
00:15:20,480 --> 00:15:22,640
So you better lawyer up and you
better have a good one.
262
00:15:22,640 --> 00:15:24,800
Like those were her.
Just wait to see how much money
263
00:15:24,800 --> 00:15:30,760
we can spend on lawyers.
Yeah, and so, you know, we
264
00:15:30,760 --> 00:15:33,760
basically were just like, leave
us alone, psycho and whatever.
265
00:15:33,760 --> 00:15:39,760
And then then on May 28th, 2023,
we had some people show up in
266
00:15:39,760 --> 00:15:44,760
our front yard and they just
were pounding in stakes into our
267
00:15:44,760 --> 00:15:47,880
grass and putting up pride
flags.
268
00:15:48,160 --> 00:15:51,080
And I, you know, I happened,
luckily I happened to be sitting
269
00:15:51,080 --> 00:15:52,840
in the front room.
I was about to write an e-mail
270
00:15:52,840 --> 00:15:55,400
and I see these people pull up
and park in front of our house
271
00:15:55,840 --> 00:15:57,520
and I'm like, what?
Maybe they're going to the
272
00:15:57,520 --> 00:15:58,720
neighbors.
But then when they walked into
273
00:15:58,720 --> 00:16:01,400
our yard and started hammering
stuff, I told my husband, like,
274
00:16:01,400 --> 00:16:05,240
grab your phone record.
You know, let's, because we've
275
00:16:05,240 --> 00:16:09,120
been dealing with this
psychopath for the past week,
276
00:16:09,120 --> 00:16:11,320
and I just figured it might be
related to that.
277
00:16:11,520 --> 00:16:14,640
So I kind of like, gathered my
kids and got them out of the
278
00:16:14,640 --> 00:16:18,400
situation, like downstairs so
they wouldn't be affected by it.
279
00:16:18,960 --> 00:16:22,800
And my husband went out and
recorded and yeah, it was her.
280
00:16:22,800 --> 00:16:25,560
She was sending 7 pride flags to
be sticked into our front yard
281
00:16:25,560 --> 00:16:29,040
as a mockery to our religious
beliefs and on everything we had
282
00:16:29,040 --> 00:16:33,160
stood for for the past two years
at that point.
283
00:16:33,240 --> 00:16:36,240
Pretty much, yeah.
Holy cow.
284
00:16:37,320 --> 00:16:41,000
And then when I assume you tried
to make contact with her about
285
00:16:41,000 --> 00:16:45,560
this, right?
We my method of dealing with
286
00:16:45,560 --> 00:16:48,240
this kind of stuff is just
posting about it, posting to the
287
00:16:48,240 --> 00:16:55,480
public because you when you
expose things that it usually
288
00:16:55,840 --> 00:16:59,960
makes it stop because nobody
wants exposure for their bad
289
00:16:59,960 --> 00:17:03,720
behavior.
So I just I posted it and shared
290
00:17:03,720 --> 00:17:06,000
what she was doing to our family
and.
291
00:17:06,079 --> 00:17:09,480
The police wouldn't do anything.
Yeah, at that point, the police
292
00:17:09,480 --> 00:17:11,079
hadn't.
Gotten it vandalism at some
293
00:17:11,079 --> 00:17:14,400
point.
It is sorry you can edit out me
294
00:17:14,400 --> 00:17:17,119
like itching my stupid eyes.
No, you're doing fine.
295
00:17:19,960 --> 00:17:21,520
It is.
It's vandalism.
296
00:17:21,520 --> 00:17:23,920
It's trespassing.
You know, we've read the laws.
297
00:17:23,920 --> 00:17:26,400
We know.
But the police were like, it's
298
00:17:26,400 --> 00:17:27,800
not trespassing.
We're not going to talk about
299
00:17:27,800 --> 00:17:28,640
it.
We're not going to tell you.
300
00:17:28,640 --> 00:17:32,760
And they were, they were just
biased the same as everyone
301
00:17:32,760 --> 00:17:34,000
else.
They're biased against my
302
00:17:34,000 --> 00:17:36,120
religious beliefs.
And so they wouldn't protect us.
303
00:17:36,120 --> 00:17:42,360
But I exposed it and within 3
minutes of me posting about it,
304
00:17:42,480 --> 00:17:45,400
this, this PTA volunteer shared
it.
305
00:17:45,840 --> 00:17:48,600
And she was like, look at happy
pride to our favorite Marie
306
00:17:48,600 --> 00:17:51,320
citizen, April to Spain.
And I mean, she was totally
307
00:17:51,320 --> 00:17:54,360
proud of it.
She just was like mocking us and
308
00:17:54,560 --> 00:17:57,600
taking credit for it.
And she was proud of it.
309
00:17:57,880 --> 00:18:02,080
So yeah, that's what happened
with and that's how it all kind
310
00:18:02,080 --> 00:18:05,000
of got started.
Geez.
311
00:18:05,000 --> 00:18:06,960
And nothing from the school
board on this, right?
312
00:18:06,960 --> 00:18:10,720
Like, look, if if the school
board made an honest mistake, I
313
00:18:10,720 --> 00:18:13,120
can I, I get that right?
Apologize.
314
00:18:13,120 --> 00:18:15,840
You know, I, hey, I, we got one
activist teacher here.
315
00:18:16,920 --> 00:18:22,320
It's been dealt with.
But like, when a PTAPTA
316
00:18:22,320 --> 00:18:27,080
volunteer comes after you,
right, you would expect Murray
317
00:18:27,080 --> 00:18:30,040
to do something to be like, hey,
not our people.
318
00:18:30,040 --> 00:18:34,440
Did, did, did the school board
ever come out and say, hey, we,
319
00:18:34,440 --> 00:18:37,600
we, we just want you to know
we're not with this or anything
320
00:18:37,600 --> 00:18:39,720
like that.
No, not at all.
321
00:18:39,760 --> 00:18:45,760
They just, I mean, I, I can only
assume, I can't say that they
322
00:18:45,760 --> 00:18:48,840
supported that type of thing,
but I don't think that they were
323
00:18:48,840 --> 00:18:52,720
ever going to make a statement
against it because they did not
324
00:18:52,720 --> 00:18:56,720
want to show any support for me.
You know, they were, I had
325
00:18:56,720 --> 00:18:59,360
exposed so many issues in
Murray's school district.
326
00:18:59,520 --> 00:19:03,120
You know, I had evidence of
their communications director,
327
00:19:03,120 --> 00:19:05,840
Doug Perry, reporting my post on
Facebook.
328
00:19:06,200 --> 00:19:09,480
You know he was following.
Reporting to who?
329
00:19:10,400 --> 00:19:13,000
Just where you report it so that
it to the.
330
00:19:14,200 --> 00:19:15,840
Facebook Police.
Right.
331
00:19:15,840 --> 00:19:19,240
Yeah, to the Facebook police so
that it will like either turn it
332
00:19:19,240 --> 00:19:22,840
off or whatever, just make it so
it doesn't get follows or I
333
00:19:22,840 --> 00:19:27,160
don't know what it does to it.
But I had evidence like I I had
334
00:19:27,160 --> 00:19:30,600
seen that he was following my
posts and reporting them over
335
00:19:30,600 --> 00:19:32,960
and over again.
And you know, this is the Murray
336
00:19:32,960 --> 00:19:34,760
School District.
He works for the school
337
00:19:34,760 --> 00:19:38,000
district.
And then, you know, when all
338
00:19:38,000 --> 00:19:40,800
this started happening with his
PTA president, I had to go
339
00:19:40,800 --> 00:19:43,960
through, I had to go submit a
grammar request to see how
340
00:19:43,960 --> 00:19:47,960
involved Murray School District
was with this whole flag
341
00:19:47,960 --> 00:19:50,880
incident.
And I requested her emails for
342
00:19:50,880 --> 00:19:55,560
like maybe a month or week of of
the school year during the the
343
00:19:55,560 --> 00:19:58,160
week of what all this stuff had
happened to me.
344
00:19:58,160 --> 00:20:03,880
And Doug Perry, he contacted
her.
345
00:20:04,720 --> 00:20:08,200
I believe he contacted her
because we got the grandma
346
00:20:08,200 --> 00:20:13,120
request back.
So first of all, the grandma was
347
00:20:13,120 --> 00:20:15,600
denied and.
Because.
348
00:20:16,000 --> 00:20:17,680
You wanted the emails.
Right.
349
00:20:17,680 --> 00:20:20,080
I wanted her emails with anyone
in Murray School District
350
00:20:20,080 --> 00:20:24,240
through like May 2023.
And so it was the denied and in
351
00:20:24,240 --> 00:20:26,440
their denial, they have to
explain why they're denying this
352
00:20:26,440 --> 00:20:29,720
request.
And the denial cited these
353
00:20:29,720 --> 00:20:30,840
codes.
I went through and read the
354
00:20:30,840 --> 00:20:34,280
codes and they were saying
things like this person's life
355
00:20:34,280 --> 00:20:39,360
would be in danger if if you
were to receive her emails or
356
00:20:39,360 --> 00:20:43,040
her safety is on the line.
Like these ridiculous things
357
00:20:43,040 --> 00:20:45,360
that I'm like, her life is not
in danger.
358
00:20:45,640 --> 00:20:47,880
I've never done anything of a
violent nature.
359
00:20:47,960 --> 00:20:49,840
They know that I've never been
violent.
360
00:20:49,840 --> 00:20:53,160
But it was clear that they were
playing along with this whole
361
00:20:53,160 --> 00:20:55,760
stalking injunction that she had
filed.
362
00:20:56,040 --> 00:21:00,520
And they used that as a way to
try to get me from receiving the
363
00:21:00,520 --> 00:21:02,480
evidence that I needed for my
case.
364
00:21:02,840 --> 00:21:07,880
And anyway, I got some legal
help involved and appealed the
365
00:21:07,880 --> 00:21:11,280
denial, and I ended up getting
them, which was great because it
366
00:21:11,280 --> 00:21:14,880
showed that she had ordered
those pride flags for me before
367
00:21:14,880 --> 00:21:17,000
any engagement online had even
begun.
368
00:21:17,200 --> 00:21:24,440
So clearly she was following me.
She was like, harassing me
369
00:21:24,880 --> 00:21:27,360
before I had.
I didn't even know who she was.
370
00:21:27,360 --> 00:21:29,120
I didn't even know that she
existed.
371
00:21:29,360 --> 00:21:32,040
So yeah.
Before she even made one comment
372
00:21:32,320 --> 00:21:34,560
on Facebook, she had already
ordered the pride flags.
373
00:21:35,240 --> 00:21:37,520
Yeah, and it was actually a
blessing in disguise that he had
374
00:21:37,520 --> 00:21:40,960
denied the grandma because I had
to resubmit the grandma and then
375
00:21:40,960 --> 00:21:45,280
I got his e-mail with her about
her injunction.
376
00:21:45,560 --> 00:21:48,600
And and so I have now evidence
of how the school district was
377
00:21:48,880 --> 00:21:54,680
also using the injunction to
silence me and to limit my
378
00:21:54,680 --> 00:21:59,440
abilities to expose the issues
in Murray's school district and
379
00:21:59,600 --> 00:22:02,680
in this in this case.
So it's definitely going to be
380
00:22:02,680 --> 00:22:04,760
an issue for them that they've
done that.
381
00:22:04,840 --> 00:22:06,600
It will.
Gotcha.
382
00:22:07,440 --> 00:22:14,080
So do do you feel like this PTA
volunteer was a do you think she
383
00:22:14,080 --> 00:22:15,880
was in cahoots with the school
district?
384
00:22:20,040 --> 00:22:24,600
I think that she was, she
thought she was going to be
385
00:22:24,600 --> 00:22:26,880
hero, a hero for the school
district.
386
00:22:26,960 --> 00:22:31,400
Like she's, as she said from the
beginning, like I know these
387
00:22:31,400 --> 00:22:34,720
teachers, they are great people
and they need someone to defend
388
00:22:34,720 --> 00:22:35,800
them.
And I'm going to do it.
389
00:22:36,080 --> 00:22:39,160
I can't point definitively to
the school saying that they
390
00:22:39,160 --> 00:22:43,600
asked her to do it.
I think she, of her own accord,
391
00:22:43,600 --> 00:22:46,320
probably did it and thought she
was going to be this great big
392
00:22:46,320 --> 00:22:51,520
hero for the school district.
But I think once she got herself
393
00:22:51,520 --> 00:22:54,160
into that mess, the school
district wasn't going to like,
394
00:22:54,360 --> 00:22:57,480
hang her out to dry.
So that's why the whole incident
395
00:22:57,480 --> 00:22:59,040
with the grandma request
happened.
396
00:22:59,040 --> 00:23:01,240
I think they were like, well,
we're going to help you because,
397
00:23:01,560 --> 00:23:05,720
you know, it benefits Murray
School District if I'm labeled a
398
00:23:05,720 --> 00:23:09,120
stalker.
So if this injunction is held up
399
00:23:09,360 --> 00:23:15,080
and I'm labeled a stalker, then
that damages my credibility as
400
00:23:15,080 --> 00:23:17,480
someone who exposes Murray
School District's issues.
401
00:23:17,600 --> 00:23:21,520
So it is whether or not they
asked her to do anything that
402
00:23:21,520 --> 00:23:25,120
after the fact they were they
clearly had motivation to say,
403
00:23:25,120 --> 00:23:31,200
let's help her out, help out
this PTA volunteer so that April
404
00:23:31,680 --> 00:23:35,200
can, you know, just shut up or
somehow lose credibility.
405
00:23:35,200 --> 00:23:38,280
And that'll help everyone in
this situation except, except
406
00:23:38,280 --> 00:23:41,120
April.
So I don't believe or at least I
407
00:23:41,200 --> 00:23:43,280
don't have evidence that they
asked her to do anything.
408
00:23:43,440 --> 00:23:45,840
But I do believe that once it
happened, they were helping,
409
00:23:46,040 --> 00:23:47,400
they were working together on
that.
410
00:23:48,160 --> 00:23:52,440
You know, it's, so I won't
mention the names, right?
411
00:23:52,440 --> 00:23:55,640
I know that there's litigation
pending and, and it's, it's
412
00:23:56,280 --> 00:23:58,920
there, There's some stuff here
that prevents us from from
413
00:23:58,920 --> 00:24:03,240
saying this person's name, but I
do my homework and I do my
414
00:24:03,240 --> 00:24:05,360
research, right?
So I went ahead and I was like,
415
00:24:05,360 --> 00:24:08,680
you know, let's just see who
this, who, who, who this person
416
00:24:08,680 --> 00:24:11,120
is.
And judging by their Facebook,
417
00:24:11,120 --> 00:24:13,640
they're definitely advocating,
right?
418
00:24:13,640 --> 00:24:17,600
I mean, they've got some,
they've got some slants that
419
00:24:17,600 --> 00:24:21,080
might fly in the face of of what
your beliefs are and what my
420
00:24:21,080 --> 00:24:23,080
beliefs are.
And that's fine.
421
00:24:23,080 --> 00:24:25,760
I don't have an issue with that.
You, you know, you can't like
422
00:24:25,760 --> 00:24:28,040
you do you, bro?
I don't, I have no issues,
423
00:24:28,400 --> 00:24:31,040
right?
But when when you use that
424
00:24:31,040 --> 00:24:35,400
platform to then persecute a
family, that's that's a little
425
00:24:35,400 --> 00:24:40,480
different and using that
position right to me as, as, as
426
00:24:40,480 --> 00:24:42,640
I read through it.
And I want to be clear, I am not
427
00:24:42,640 --> 00:24:44,920
putting words in April and
Tony's mouth.
428
00:24:44,920 --> 00:24:49,600
This is my my estimation of it.
She was a strong arm in there,
429
00:24:49,720 --> 00:24:52,960
right.
Like, and we have to remember
430
00:24:52,960 --> 00:24:56,480
that this is like 2022-2023,
right?
431
00:24:57,840 --> 00:25:03,720
The certain political entities
felt emboldened to shut down
432
00:25:03,720 --> 00:25:06,520
those who they disagreed with,
right?
433
00:25:06,880 --> 00:25:09,840
I think it would be might be a
little harder right now to get
434
00:25:09,840 --> 00:25:12,720
that done from our side of the
spectrum.
435
00:25:13,080 --> 00:25:15,280
But in those days, it wasn't
right.
436
00:25:15,480 --> 00:25:18,120
And they were coming with the
full weight of everything they
437
00:25:18,120 --> 00:25:22,800
could muster to get it done.
And that sort of stuff makes my
438
00:25:22,800 --> 00:25:24,240
blood boil.
Tony, what?
439
00:25:24,240 --> 00:25:25,840
Where are you at through all
this?
440
00:25:25,840 --> 00:25:29,280
I mean, I can only imagine what
it's like watching your wife
441
00:25:29,280 --> 00:25:34,720
have to fight this battle, dude.
Yeah, it's hard to see people
442
00:25:34,720 --> 00:25:37,960
attacking her online.
There's sometimes I would want
443
00:25:37,960 --> 00:25:40,760
to get on there and say stuff.
It.
444
00:25:41,280 --> 00:25:42,920
Probably wouldn't have been
good.
445
00:25:44,600 --> 00:25:50,680
So she's she's probably a lot
more reserved or.
446
00:25:51,560 --> 00:25:53,640
She holds.
Back better than I would, I
447
00:25:53,640 --> 00:25:58,880
think, because once I would say
things and, you know, get myself
448
00:25:59,400 --> 00:26:02,080
in trouble or get her in trouble
because I'm her husband.
449
00:26:02,080 --> 00:26:06,480
And so, yeah, it's not easy
seeing her get attacked and and
450
00:26:06,480 --> 00:26:10,600
being ostracized at your own in
your own ward for for views that
451
00:26:10,920 --> 00:26:14,040
everybody should have or you
think everybody in your ward
452
00:26:14,040 --> 00:26:18,680
should have, you know, but I
felt very ostracized in my own
453
00:26:18,840 --> 00:26:20,560
ward.
So it was crazy.
454
00:26:21,120 --> 00:26:23,680
Well, I'm glad you brought that
up because that's someplace I
455
00:26:23,680 --> 00:26:26,560
wanted to go.
What was what was the support
456
00:26:26,560 --> 00:26:28,920
from your local leaders at
church like?
457
00:26:28,920 --> 00:26:31,080
I mean, were they rallying to
your support?
458
00:26:31,080 --> 00:26:35,680
I mean.
It it felt like they didn't want
459
00:26:35,680 --> 00:26:38,440
to have eye contact with us if
we walked down the hall
460
00:26:38,440 --> 00:26:42,280
sometimes.
It I think I would say it
461
00:26:42,280 --> 00:26:44,160
depends on the leader because
like.
462
00:26:44,440 --> 00:26:47,520
There were there were some that
were supportive, but.
463
00:26:47,720 --> 00:26:53,200
Yeah, like there was, I mean you
like in Murray, there was a
464
00:26:53,200 --> 00:26:56,520
member of our stake presidency
who is flying pride flags and
465
00:26:56,520 --> 00:26:59,480
one of and he wore a pride flag
in his pocket every week to
466
00:26:59,480 --> 00:27:01,840
every church meeting, you know,
stake conference, whatever.
467
00:27:01,840 --> 00:27:07,280
He always wore it.
And I loved him like I love him
468
00:27:07,280 --> 00:27:10,320
as a person.
I don't think it's right that
469
00:27:10,320 --> 00:27:13,240
he's promoting those ideologies,
especially as a church leader at
470
00:27:13,240 --> 00:27:16,800
church.
But you know, he, I'm sure that
471
00:27:16,800 --> 00:27:19,520
he's not going to agree with
with my stand on the family
472
00:27:19,520 --> 00:27:24,720
proclamation and whatever.
And that's just the reality down
473
00:27:24,720 --> 00:27:25,920
there.
And I had we had bishopric
474
00:27:25,920 --> 00:27:28,240
members who were flying pride
flags and then we had like
475
00:27:28,240 --> 00:27:30,080
bishopric members who were
saying, great job.
476
00:27:30,080 --> 00:27:33,040
I totally support you.
So it really depended on the
477
00:27:33,040 --> 00:27:37,040
leader, but it was very like, it
was clearly something that,
478
00:27:37,040 --> 00:27:39,600
like, people were just kind of
like, don't want to touch that,
479
00:27:39,760 --> 00:27:41,240
Don't want to go there, you
know?
480
00:27:41,280 --> 00:27:44,680
And you kind of feel like even
if they privately supported you
481
00:27:45,320 --> 00:27:47,600
in public, they're like, oh,
don't want to go there because
482
00:27:47,600 --> 00:27:50,560
it's so divisive.
And I want to be a peacemaker.
483
00:27:50,600 --> 00:27:52,760
And it was the elephant in the
room.
484
00:27:52,760 --> 00:27:56,080
I felt like sometimes to talk
about the family proclamation at
485
00:27:56,080 --> 00:27:59,920
church, there were there were
definitely leaders who supported
486
00:27:59,920 --> 00:28:02,400
us.
And you know, they invited us to
487
00:28:02,400 --> 00:28:04,560
speak on what we were going
through at church.
488
00:28:05,960 --> 00:28:08,680
There were there were others who
were like, we got to have
489
00:28:08,680 --> 00:28:13,160
someone, someone else speak to
to go after them because.
490
00:28:13,160 --> 00:28:15,320
Yeah, I wouldn't say that.
They invited us to speak on what
491
00:28:15,320 --> 00:28:17,920
we were going through.
They just asked us to speak.
492
00:28:17,920 --> 00:28:23,280
But it was on a topic that was
very what we were going, what
493
00:28:23,280 --> 00:28:25,040
she was going through.
Right.
494
00:28:25,040 --> 00:28:28,840
And I did happen to mention the
stuff that I had gone through a
495
00:28:28,840 --> 00:28:31,480
little bit.
And then the next Sunday they
496
00:28:31,480 --> 00:28:34,360
had this super progressive
member of our ward get up,
497
00:28:34,440 --> 00:28:37,320
actually two of them get up and
speak on their progressive
498
00:28:37,400 --> 00:28:39,480
beliefs.
And it was, they were like, what
499
00:28:39,480 --> 00:28:45,000
did he say?
He said Jesus was a disruptor.
500
00:28:47,120 --> 00:28:49,120
Disruptor.
Yeah, I think he said Jesus was
501
00:28:49,440 --> 00:28:51,720
a disruptor.
And he just was basically
502
00:28:51,720 --> 00:28:55,240
implying like, if Jesus were
here, he'd be a disruptor and
503
00:28:55,360 --> 00:28:57,880
he'd support this LGBTQ
community.
504
00:28:57,880 --> 00:29:00,040
And.
And I was just like, and I wrote
505
00:29:00,040 --> 00:29:02,920
a post about it after that talk
because I'm like, yeah, Jesus
506
00:29:02,920 --> 00:29:05,760
was a disruptor and he still is.
And that's why the family
507
00:29:05,760 --> 00:29:08,400
Proclamation will get you more
hate.
508
00:29:08,400 --> 00:29:12,240
You want to fly a pride flag?
Everybody Pats you on the back.
509
00:29:12,520 --> 00:29:15,760
You can go to your parties all
the month of June, like have at
510
00:29:15,760 --> 00:29:18,200
it.
You fly the family proclamation.
511
00:29:18,360 --> 00:29:20,480
Oh, watch the death threats come
on it.
512
00:29:20,480 --> 00:29:23,080
And I've had them.
So you want to talk about being
513
00:29:23,080 --> 00:29:25,240
a disruptor?
That's what the family
514
00:29:25,240 --> 00:29:27,360
proclamation is.
I just, I just think it's
515
00:29:27,360 --> 00:29:31,600
hilarious, these church members
who think they're like on top of
516
00:29:31,600 --> 00:29:35,560
the game and they're just making
fools of themselves as far as
517
00:29:35,560 --> 00:29:36,960
I'm concerned.
Yeah.
518
00:29:37,480 --> 00:29:41,040
Yeah, no, I I could totally,
unfortunately, I could totally
519
00:29:41,040 --> 00:29:43,840
see that.
And Utah of all places, right?
520
00:29:43,840 --> 00:29:46,280
Like, that should be the
stronghold, right?
521
00:29:46,280 --> 00:29:50,160
Like every other, every other
place around there should be
522
00:29:50,160 --> 00:29:53,000
like be being able to flirt with
that and feel kind of safe.
523
00:29:53,000 --> 00:29:56,200
But in Utah, you would think,
no, no, no, no, you're close to
524
00:29:56,200 --> 00:29:58,400
church headquarters.
You better kind of toe the line
525
00:29:58,400 --> 00:30:02,480
on this, right?
And look, that dude is not
526
00:30:02,480 --> 00:30:05,560
wrong, right?
That Jesus was a disruptor.
527
00:30:05,560 --> 00:30:09,240
He's absolutely a disruptor, but
not quite in the way that I
528
00:30:09,240 --> 00:30:11,680
think he's figuring it would go,
right?
529
00:30:12,920 --> 00:30:17,520
And, and this thing about being
a peacemaker, I, I take
530
00:30:17,520 --> 00:30:21,520
exception with that a little bit
because while certainly Jesus
531
00:30:21,520 --> 00:30:28,040
wants us to be united on things,
unity within itself is not a
532
00:30:28,040 --> 00:30:30,360
great thing.
And let me explain, right?
533
00:30:31,320 --> 00:30:33,520
As Mormons, we strive for Zion,
right?
534
00:30:33,520 --> 00:30:38,400
We want that people of 1 heart
and one mind, but being of 1
535
00:30:38,400 --> 00:30:41,520
heart and one mind around
incorrect principles will bring
536
00:30:41,520 --> 00:30:43,720
disaster.
And you only have to look to the
537
00:30:43,720 --> 00:30:46,640
Tower of Babel in that, right?
If we go back to Genesis and we
538
00:30:46,640 --> 00:30:49,400
look the Lord's very clear
there, right?
539
00:30:49,840 --> 00:30:52,840
He says the people are united
and nothing will be kept from
540
00:30:52,840 --> 00:30:53,880
them.
So what does he do?
541
00:30:53,960 --> 00:30:56,800
He confuses their language.
So they're not united anymore.
542
00:30:57,120 --> 00:31:01,040
So unity for unity sake, I
cannot get behind the other
543
00:31:01,040 --> 00:31:04,880
thing I'd say even Jesus, the
Prince of Peace overturned a few
544
00:31:04,880 --> 00:31:08,880
tables and drew a whip, right?
And the other thing he said was,
545
00:31:09,320 --> 00:31:11,680
you know, think not that I've
come.
546
00:31:11,680 --> 00:31:16,320
I can't remember how I said it.
I bring the sort of.
547
00:31:16,400 --> 00:31:21,640
Yes, yes, that's exactly right.
You know, daughter, mother
548
00:31:21,640 --> 00:31:24,360
against daughter, father against
son, brother against brother,
549
00:31:24,360 --> 00:31:27,800
right.
So he's very much understanding
550
00:31:27,800 --> 00:31:30,680
that hey, there is a line and
that line is the truth.
551
00:31:30,840 --> 00:31:33,280
And if you're going to flirt
with that line, there's going to
552
00:31:33,280 --> 00:31:35,360
be divisions that happened,
right?
553
00:31:37,200 --> 00:31:39,640
And so it it.
Look at the Book of Mormon and
554
00:31:39,640 --> 00:31:45,920
all the, you know, Hammond and
and Captain Moroni and all the
555
00:31:45,920 --> 00:31:47,800
wars.
You know, there's there's a
556
00:31:48,360 --> 00:31:50,080
boundary you gotta set
sometimes.
557
00:31:51,200 --> 00:31:55,880
You know, I don't, I don't have
an issue with peacemaker.
558
00:31:56,920 --> 00:32:01,080
I think that we the, the, the
issue is that people
559
00:32:01,080 --> 00:32:03,640
misinterpret what it means to be
a peacemaker.
560
00:32:04,080 --> 00:32:07,640
People think that if they avoid
conflict, then they're
561
00:32:07,640 --> 00:32:10,360
peacemakers.
And that's not true peace.
562
00:32:10,360 --> 00:32:12,880
Like nothing will bring more
chaos.
563
00:32:13,200 --> 00:32:16,920
If you ask me, nothing will
bring more chaos to this world
564
00:32:17,200 --> 00:32:20,720
than the gender ideology that
they're pushing on our kids.
565
00:32:20,920 --> 00:32:23,840
You know, the family
proclamation shows us the way to
566
00:32:23,840 --> 00:32:26,240
have peace.
God showed us the way.
567
00:32:26,680 --> 00:32:30,800
And when you defend truth and
you defend true principles,
568
00:32:31,240 --> 00:32:36,080
you're making peace if you turn
a blind eye in order to avoid
569
00:32:36,080 --> 00:32:40,680
conflict.
And then the the ultimate result
570
00:32:40,680 --> 00:32:43,600
is, hey, these ideologies are
running the show.
571
00:32:43,760 --> 00:32:46,280
That's chaos.
That's the opposite of peace.
572
00:32:46,520 --> 00:32:51,120
I just think it's sad how many
church members don't understand
573
00:32:51,120 --> 00:32:55,320
on a fundamental level what
peacemaking really is.
574
00:32:55,760 --> 00:32:57,760
And I know that I'm a
peacemaker.
575
00:32:58,000 --> 00:33:00,480
Like I don't need to go to
church and have my church
576
00:33:00,480 --> 00:33:03,960
neighbors or whatever tell me
that I'm a peacemaker.
577
00:33:04,360 --> 00:33:09,520
I look to God and I know that
what I do is ultimately
578
00:33:09,520 --> 00:33:12,720
peacemaking.
Just like, you know, Ammon,
579
00:33:12,800 --> 00:33:16,040
people just want to focus on
like, but look, when he talked
580
00:33:16,040 --> 00:33:20,200
to Lamoni, he was peacemaking.
Well, was he not peacemaking
581
00:33:20,200 --> 00:33:24,080
when he scattered those people,
You know, just to to protect,
582
00:33:25,200 --> 00:33:27,200
right?
Like we need to look at
583
00:33:27,200 --> 00:33:30,080
everything as a whole and
recognize what peacemaking
584
00:33:30,080 --> 00:33:32,640
really is because we're not
going against the Prophet's
585
00:33:32,640 --> 00:33:36,000
counsel.
When we stand up for truth and
586
00:33:36,000 --> 00:33:39,520
people get mad, them getting
mad, that's their issue.
587
00:33:39,520 --> 00:33:41,520
That doesn't mean that I'm not
making peace.
588
00:33:41,520 --> 00:33:46,320
And the same goes for so many
situations, like when someone
589
00:33:46,320 --> 00:33:51,080
stands up for what's right and
it causes contention in the
590
00:33:51,080 --> 00:33:53,560
hearts of others, that doesn't
mean that I'm causing
591
00:33:53,560 --> 00:33:55,920
contention.
That means that maybe they need
592
00:33:55,920 --> 00:33:58,040
to realign themselves with
truth.
593
00:33:58,320 --> 00:34:02,440
That's their issue, not mine.
Yeah, and, and look, the
594
00:34:02,440 --> 00:34:05,160
scriptures even say there's a
time for peace and a time for
595
00:34:05,160 --> 00:34:08,719
war, right.
And even if you know what, I,
596
00:34:08,880 --> 00:34:10,960
I'm not sure I wouldn't have
embraced being like, yeah,
597
00:34:10,960 --> 00:34:12,520
you're right.
I'm not a peacemaker at the
598
00:34:12,520 --> 00:34:17,239
moment.
I'm here to take names and, and
599
00:34:17,719 --> 00:34:20,000
plant my foot where it needs to
go, right?
600
00:34:21,760 --> 00:34:24,480
Yeah, no, that, that's, that's
craziness.
601
00:34:24,840 --> 00:34:27,560
And so through this.
All right, What?
602
00:34:27,639 --> 00:34:31,600
When, when the lawsuit comes up,
what you guys thinking?
603
00:34:31,639 --> 00:34:34,800
I mean, do you remember the day
that you're served papers or
604
00:34:34,800 --> 00:34:36,840
something like that?
I do.
605
00:34:36,880 --> 00:34:44,719
Yeah, it was July 3rd, 2023 that
we got the papers and I was just
606
00:34:44,719 --> 00:34:49,560
like, OK, here we go.
You know, like it's annoying in
607
00:34:49,560 --> 00:34:52,040
that, OK, now I have to hire an
attorney and that we're going to
608
00:34:52,040 --> 00:34:57,960
have to pay attorney's fees.
But I wasn't, I never at any
609
00:34:57,960 --> 00:35:01,680
time, I never intended to back
down like I and I never will.
610
00:35:02,000 --> 00:35:06,840
So it, it's annoying, but it is
what it is.
611
00:35:06,840 --> 00:35:09,240
You got to go through what you
got to go through, and you just
612
00:35:09,240 --> 00:35:13,920
trust that if you're doing what
God wants you to do, He's going
613
00:35:13,920 --> 00:35:16,600
to help you through it.
Yeah, and she's a lot better at
614
00:35:16,600 --> 00:35:19,680
that than I am.
You know, sometimes I'm like,
615
00:35:19,680 --> 00:35:21,400
how are we going to pay for
stuff?
616
00:35:21,440 --> 00:35:24,880
And she just remind me, you
know, you just need to have, we
617
00:35:24,880 --> 00:35:27,240
need to have faith that God's
going to help us out.
618
00:35:27,760 --> 00:35:29,520
We're doing what he wants us to
do.
619
00:35:30,000 --> 00:35:34,640
So things are going to work out.
Don't, don't, don't stress about
620
00:35:34,640 --> 00:35:36,880
it.
It's, it's easier said than
621
00:35:36,880 --> 00:35:40,320
done, but it is.
It's, it's taking a step into
622
00:35:40,320 --> 00:35:44,040
the darkness, you know?
Absolutely what your kids think,
623
00:35:44,040 --> 00:35:46,560
right?
Because April, you said you had,
624
00:35:46,880 --> 00:35:49,440
you ended up being like, OK, I
got to get my kids out of you
625
00:35:49,520 --> 00:35:52,760
and good for out of here and
good for you for doing that,
626
00:35:53,200 --> 00:35:56,200
right.
What was your kids reaction to
627
00:35:56,200 --> 00:35:59,720
all this?
Well, we tried.
628
00:36:00,600 --> 00:36:03,000
First of all, I was devastated
to remove them from Murray
629
00:36:03,000 --> 00:36:04,520
School District.
My husband and I both grew up in
630
00:36:04,520 --> 00:36:06,600
Murray.
You know, I was like a third
631
00:36:06,600 --> 00:36:09,440
generation Murray citizen and I
had a lot of history there.
632
00:36:09,440 --> 00:36:13,960
I knew most of the community and
I was devastated.
633
00:36:14,200 --> 00:36:16,520
Plus they were in the Spanish
program, which I majored in
634
00:36:16,520 --> 00:36:18,720
Spanish.
I love Spanish so I cried for
635
00:36:18,720 --> 00:36:22,200
weeks taking them out.
They like at that point, we only
636
00:36:22,200 --> 00:36:25,840
had two kids in public school.
We have 6 kids, but they're so
637
00:36:25,840 --> 00:36:28,480
little or they were so little at
that time.
638
00:36:30,480 --> 00:36:34,880
I would say that my, my oldest,
he was a little sad about like
639
00:36:34,880 --> 00:36:38,000
some of the friends, but that he
wasn't going to see as much.
640
00:36:38,360 --> 00:36:41,120
We tried to charter school for a
month and then we just ended up
641
00:36:41,120 --> 00:36:43,760
feeling like home schools with
the way that we needed to go.
642
00:36:43,760 --> 00:36:46,560
And they loved it.
They loved home school, you
643
00:36:46,560 --> 00:36:51,640
know, But as far as the issues,
we try not to bring them into
644
00:36:51,640 --> 00:36:53,560
the issues as much.
They do kind of know what's
645
00:36:53,560 --> 00:36:55,440
going on.
And when I ran for school board,
646
00:36:55,640 --> 00:36:57,120
there were some emotional
moments.
647
00:36:57,120 --> 00:37:00,560
And like, there were times when
my husband gave me blessings and
648
00:37:00,720 --> 00:37:05,920
my kids were there for that.
And but we try not to bring them
649
00:37:05,920 --> 00:37:09,160
into, you know, they're kids.
We try to like shelter them from
650
00:37:09,160 --> 00:37:10,840
it.
And I hope that what they do
651
00:37:10,840 --> 00:37:15,480
witness, they're realizing,
like, wow, when these issues
652
00:37:15,480 --> 00:37:18,360
come up, I need to take a stand.
Like we're hopefully setting an
653
00:37:18,360 --> 00:37:22,800
example example for them that
you don't just turn a blind eye
654
00:37:22,800 --> 00:37:25,480
and let everyone else go through
it or let one or two other
655
00:37:25,480 --> 00:37:27,640
people go through it.
You take a stand if you believe
656
00:37:27,640 --> 00:37:30,720
in something.
And so that's my hope of what
657
00:37:30,720 --> 00:37:32,320
they're learning.
But for the most part, we really
658
00:37:32,320 --> 00:37:33,720
try to keep them sheltered from
it.
659
00:37:34,720 --> 00:37:37,920
You know, I, I remember when me
and my wife decided we were
660
00:37:37,920 --> 00:37:41,720
going to withdraw our our kids
out of public school and home
661
00:37:41,720 --> 00:37:44,360
teach them right.
First off, I was always the dude
662
00:37:44,360 --> 00:37:46,880
that was like, you never
homeschool, right?
663
00:37:46,880 --> 00:37:48,960
Your kids are going to be weird,
right.
664
00:37:49,320 --> 00:37:52,840
And then when I saw like.
Same same as me.
665
00:37:53,040 --> 00:37:57,320
I, I had it and, and it was
something similar, not quite as
666
00:37:57,320 --> 00:38:00,280
bad, I want to say, but there
was something similar that was
667
00:38:00,280 --> 00:38:05,200
going on right out there where,
where I had my kids out Norm,
668
00:38:05,480 --> 00:38:09,800
right, where, where, where
things were, were kind of going
669
00:38:09,800 --> 00:38:13,000
off the rails, right?
And, and me and my wife agonized
670
00:38:13,000 --> 00:38:14,960
over this.
We prayed about it a ton.
671
00:38:15,400 --> 00:38:17,840
You know, we have 6 kids as
well, right?
672
00:38:18,240 --> 00:38:20,640
And we're like, OK, what, what
are we going to do here?
673
00:38:20,720 --> 00:38:24,440
And, and as we prayed about the,
the spirit was take them out of
674
00:38:24,440 --> 00:38:27,240
school, right?
You can do this yourself.
675
00:38:28,520 --> 00:38:32,480
And I remember my wife, she was
like, I'm nervous about going in
676
00:38:32,480 --> 00:38:34,520
by myself to withdraw and would
you go with me?
677
00:38:34,520 --> 00:38:36,280
I'm like, sure, I ain't got a
problem with that, right?
678
00:38:36,280 --> 00:38:38,880
I'm blunt.
I don't have a have an issue
679
00:38:38,880 --> 00:38:41,680
with that.
And I went in and I remember
680
00:38:41,680 --> 00:38:44,320
this school counselor.
She's like, well, your kids are
681
00:38:44,320 --> 00:38:48,160
not going to fit into society.
And I was like, in this society,
682
00:38:48,200 --> 00:38:52,440
your terms are acceptable, like.
That's what we were hoping.
683
00:38:52,840 --> 00:38:54,280
Yeah, that's what we were hoping
for.
684
00:38:54,640 --> 00:38:57,360
What you what's your experience
been like homeschooling your
685
00:38:57,360 --> 00:39:01,280
kids?
It was good.
686
00:39:01,280 --> 00:39:04,520
We actually homeschooled for
three years.
687
00:39:04,520 --> 00:39:09,560
So yeah, at at this point,
they're back in public schools
688
00:39:09,800 --> 00:39:13,880
and the schools where they are
now.
689
00:39:14,920 --> 00:39:16,920
And I'm not, I'm not like
stupid.
690
00:39:16,920 --> 00:39:19,080
I'm not going to think, oh, I'm
in this area so there's no
691
00:39:19,080 --> 00:39:20,320
problem.
Right.
692
00:39:20,800 --> 00:39:25,120
But it's definitely not to the
extent that it was down in Salt
693
00:39:25,120 --> 00:39:29,440
Lake City like in our when my
kids were in elementary school
694
00:39:29,440 --> 00:39:31,920
at Marie, at first it wasn't
this way, but once COVID hit,
695
00:39:31,920 --> 00:39:35,240
that's when everything kind of
shifted and they let me into the
696
00:39:35,240 --> 00:39:37,440
classrooms.
They were like, Nope, you can't
697
00:39:37,440 --> 00:39:38,520
go back.
You might have COVID.
698
00:39:38,520 --> 00:39:40,240
And I'm like, I don't have
COVID.
699
00:39:40,400 --> 00:39:42,880
I'm wearing a mask.
Can I go back to my child's
700
00:39:42,880 --> 00:39:44,000
classroom and see what's going
on?
701
00:39:44,160 --> 00:39:45,400
Nope, you can't go in the
building.
702
00:39:45,520 --> 00:39:48,800
So I never even that whole
school year, I never even saw
703
00:39:48,800 --> 00:39:50,760
their classrooms.
But I found out from substitute
704
00:39:50,760 --> 00:39:53,400
teachers that there were pride
flags in the classrooms.
705
00:39:53,400 --> 00:39:55,160
You know, I found out from
teachers in the school that this
706
00:39:55,160 --> 00:39:59,240
whole LGBTQ curriculum was part
of the equity book bundles, not
707
00:39:59,240 --> 00:40:03,720
to mention the race part of it.
Like it's not just the gender
708
00:40:03,720 --> 00:40:05,600
ideology.
There were, they were teaching
709
00:40:05,720 --> 00:40:08,320
my kids that they, there's
something wrong with them just
710
00:40:08,320 --> 00:40:09,960
because they were born with
white skin.
711
00:40:10,160 --> 00:40:15,640
You know, like they're reading
from Ebermax Kendy and Kimberly
712
00:40:15,640 --> 00:40:19,080
Crenshaw, who like, she founded
critical race theory.
713
00:40:19,080 --> 00:40:21,880
She she founded the term, she
founded intersectionality.
714
00:40:21,880 --> 00:40:25,040
Like I did my research.
And then I looked into these
715
00:40:25,040 --> 00:40:28,160
equity book bundles and I'm
like, this is teaching all of
716
00:40:28,160 --> 00:40:31,280
this garbage about race and
sexuality and gender.
717
00:40:31,280 --> 00:40:33,800
And but yeah, they wouldn't even
let me go back and walk through
718
00:40:33,800 --> 00:40:36,760
the school.
Whereas where we are now, they
719
00:40:36,760 --> 00:40:39,360
will let me walk through the
school anywhere I want to.
720
00:40:39,360 --> 00:40:42,560
You know, there's nothing,
they're not hiding things from
721
00:40:42,560 --> 00:40:45,760
me.
And like, I know that there's
722
00:40:45,760 --> 00:40:48,480
there's always going to be
issues to some extent, but I've
723
00:40:48,480 --> 00:40:51,560
read the policies in the
district where we are now, and I
724
00:40:51,560 --> 00:40:57,040
feel like they're definitely on
the parents side rather than
725
00:40:57,040 --> 00:40:58,920
like with Murray's school
district, it was like parents
726
00:40:58,920 --> 00:41:01,720
were the enemy.
Parents were just in the way of
727
00:41:01,720 --> 00:41:06,200
the ideologies of these these
certain teachers who ran the
728
00:41:06,200 --> 00:41:09,000
district.
Did you ever get a chance to
729
00:41:09,000 --> 00:41:13,520
speak at any school board
meetings or anything like that?
730
00:41:14,080 --> 00:41:16,920
I did.
I spoke at local and state.
731
00:41:16,920 --> 00:41:18,760
On the state level, I spoke all
the time.
732
00:41:19,000 --> 00:41:21,200
So what was what was the
reception like there?
733
00:41:22,040 --> 00:41:26,360
Well, from the audience at large
as well as as the the the
734
00:41:26,400 --> 00:41:31,640
educators or the administrators.
Well, the audience, you know,
735
00:41:31,640 --> 00:41:34,680
you'd always have like your
opponents in the audience who
736
00:41:34,680 --> 00:41:38,080
would be like they're recording
or like they're going to take
737
00:41:38,080 --> 00:41:41,400
you down or whatever.
But it was always, you just have
738
00:41:41,400 --> 00:41:43,680
to like ignore those people.
They're always going to be
739
00:41:43,680 --> 00:41:47,640
there.
And so, and I would have some of
740
00:41:47,640 --> 00:41:49,920
the parents with me who agreed
with me and it was fine.
741
00:41:50,360 --> 00:41:53,320
The school board, the local
school board, they basically
742
00:41:53,320 --> 00:41:56,240
just nod their heads and then
they're like, get out of here.
743
00:41:56,280 --> 00:41:58,640
You know, if they don't care,
they don't do anything on the
744
00:41:58,640 --> 00:42:03,120
state level.
I'm sure a lot of people will.
745
00:42:03,280 --> 00:42:05,400
If you're in Utah, you've heard
about some of the issues with
746
00:42:05,400 --> 00:42:07,760
the Utah State Board of
Education and Natalie Klein and
747
00:42:07,760 --> 00:42:10,360
all that.
It was like the state board,
748
00:42:12,120 --> 00:42:14,240
it's the same thing.
They don't really care what you
749
00:42:14,240 --> 00:42:16,120
have to say.
You'll you'll have one or two
750
00:42:16,120 --> 00:42:19,640
people who care, but ultimately
it's they're not gonna listen.
751
00:42:19,680 --> 00:42:24,240
And actually I had public
comment when I was speaking at
752
00:42:24,240 --> 00:42:27,840
the state school board, I think
in November, it was October of
753
00:42:27,840 --> 00:42:34,280
2023, if I remember correct.
But they, they like stopped me
754
00:42:34,280 --> 00:42:36,120
from giving my comment because I
was criticism.
755
00:42:36,120 --> 00:42:38,480
Who was my school board
representative?
756
00:42:38,640 --> 00:42:43,120
She ran on the platform that
she's queer, you know, and I'm
757
00:42:43,120 --> 00:42:47,160
like, if she runs on the
platform that she's queer, then
758
00:42:47,160 --> 00:42:51,280
I can talk about her being queer
as my State Board of my state
759
00:42:51,280 --> 00:42:53,560
board representative.
So, you know, I was addressing
760
00:42:53,560 --> 00:42:57,720
that issue and why she wouldn't
stand up for, for our concerns
761
00:42:57,720 --> 00:42:59,400
and whatever.
And they silenced me.
762
00:42:59,400 --> 00:43:03,520
They stopped my comment.
And actually we were working on
763
00:43:03,520 --> 00:43:06,240
a First Amendment lawsuit in
that case, but because we moved,
764
00:43:06,240 --> 00:43:07,640
we weren't able to follow
through with it.
765
00:43:07,640 --> 00:43:12,080
But we had a a nonprofit who was
on it at that time.
766
00:43:12,840 --> 00:43:19,440
So yeah, it's crazy.
Yeah, no, it like I spoke at one
767
00:43:19,960 --> 00:43:27,920
at at one school board meeting
once and I remember we were
768
00:43:27,920 --> 00:43:29,920
talking about giving the
teachers a raise.
769
00:43:30,440 --> 00:43:33,440
Now, at this time, I was
actually living in Western Idaho
770
00:43:34,080 --> 00:43:37,720
and there was it, it was a
fairly small area, but the small
771
00:43:37,720 --> 00:43:41,120
area had like 6 administrators,
right?
772
00:43:41,720 --> 00:43:44,720
And I'm like they, they were
talking about, you know, we need
773
00:43:44,720 --> 00:43:46,600
more money.
We want to pass this bond.
774
00:43:47,560 --> 00:43:51,400
And I remember I asked the
question like, I agree, maybe we
775
00:43:51,400 --> 00:43:55,960
should pay our teachers more,
but we only have like 2 schools
776
00:43:56,040 --> 00:43:59,080
and we have 6 administrators.
Why, right.
777
00:43:59,080 --> 00:44:01,280
And each one of you make triple
digits.
778
00:44:01,840 --> 00:44:04,040
Is that really, you know, why
don't we go there?
779
00:44:04,480 --> 00:44:06,880
And they're not too happy to
hear from you in those
780
00:44:06,880 --> 00:44:10,480
circumstances, right?
Like, and, and that's what I've
781
00:44:10,480 --> 00:44:13,720
often felt like when it comes to
school board meetings, is that
782
00:44:14,240 --> 00:44:18,120
it's not really a place to voice
your, your dissent, right?
783
00:44:18,120 --> 00:44:21,720
They're going to, they're going
to tell you you're up in the
784
00:44:21,720 --> 00:44:27,120
night and that sort of thing.
How what, once you went to
785
00:44:27,120 --> 00:44:29,200
trial, how's, how's that been
going?
786
00:44:29,200 --> 00:44:31,160
What, what, what are the
attorneys like?
787
00:44:31,160 --> 00:44:33,040
Who?
Who's the attorney representing
788
00:44:33,680 --> 00:44:39,000
the PTA volunteer?
Her attorneys are Kennedy Nate
789
00:44:39,000 --> 00:44:46,320
and Austin Nate from the Ray
Quinney something. 22.
790
00:44:46,840 --> 00:44:49,920
She has two attorneys and I, I
don't know, like I've never
791
00:44:49,920 --> 00:44:51,720
looked into this firm, but
apparently they're not cheap.
792
00:44:51,720 --> 00:44:54,520
So it can't be, it's gotta be a
lot of money for her.
793
00:44:54,520 --> 00:44:58,960
But I mean, they're just doing
their, I don't know, like I'm of
794
00:44:58,960 --> 00:45:01,000
two thoughts, 'cause they're
just doing their job on the one
795
00:45:01,000 --> 00:45:06,120
hand, but on the other, I
believe that this case in and of
796
00:45:06,120 --> 00:45:10,760
itself is so unethical that an
honest, ethical attorney would
797
00:45:10,760 --> 00:45:16,240
say, I can't take this, you
know, this is based on untruths
798
00:45:16,240 --> 00:45:19,320
or half truths.
Yeah, there's just so many parts
799
00:45:19,320 --> 00:45:22,240
of this injunction is very
deceptive.
800
00:45:22,240 --> 00:45:23,960
I believe it's misleading the
court.
801
00:45:24,520 --> 00:45:27,360
And I don't know if like I can
say all that online, but but
802
00:45:27,520 --> 00:45:29,800
that's a fact.
Like, and I, you know, I have
803
00:45:29,800 --> 00:45:34,000
attorney friends who've seen it
and they're like, I wouldn't
804
00:45:34,000 --> 00:45:36,080
take this case.
If someone came to me with this,
805
00:45:36,240 --> 00:45:38,080
I would have to say this is
unethical.
806
00:45:38,080 --> 00:45:42,640
I can't do it.
So I just think like many in
807
00:45:42,640 --> 00:45:46,080
Utah, especially among the
church members, progressive
808
00:45:46,080 --> 00:45:49,600
church members, they have motive
to take someone like me down.
809
00:45:49,600 --> 00:45:51,240
So they're like, yeah, we'll
take this case.
810
00:45:51,600 --> 00:45:54,960
And they think that because
there's some big law firm and
811
00:45:54,960 --> 00:45:58,640
they cost a lot of money,
somehow that's, I guess they
812
00:45:58,640 --> 00:46:00,800
think that's going to intimidate
me or something.
813
00:46:01,080 --> 00:46:03,960
Or they think that that in and
of itself will make them win.
814
00:46:04,040 --> 00:46:07,600
I don't know.
But I'm just like, I have truth
815
00:46:07,600 --> 00:46:11,280
on my side.
Ultimately, I can't lose.
816
00:46:11,640 --> 00:46:14,880
I might lose in the short term.
Like, you know, I, I don't know
817
00:46:14,880 --> 00:46:17,920
exactly how everything's going
to go short term, but in the
818
00:46:17,920 --> 00:46:21,400
long term, I know I'm going to
win, whether it's this life or
819
00:46:21,400 --> 00:46:23,640
the next.
And I'm not worried about it.
820
00:46:24,120 --> 00:46:26,080
But you know, I, I just think
it's amazing that there are
821
00:46:26,080 --> 00:46:30,920
people willing to defend such
lies.
822
00:46:31,120 --> 00:46:34,920
And I think what they get from
it, they deserve so.
823
00:46:35,040 --> 00:46:40,960
And it's almost like I I wonder
if they take it personal because
824
00:46:40,960 --> 00:46:43,960
of the way they harass her on
the witness stand.
825
00:46:44,520 --> 00:46:48,080
It's like are they taking it
personal and they want to take
826
00:46:48,080 --> 00:46:55,640
out their angst towards April
and attack her because they
827
00:46:55,640 --> 00:46:58,480
don't agree with her beliefs
even though they have the same
828
00:46:58,480 --> 00:47:01,000
beliefs?
Well, we're members of the same
829
00:47:01,040 --> 00:47:02,480
church.
We don't have the same beliefs.
830
00:47:03,480 --> 00:47:09,720
But it's like they're offended
by me because I defend the
831
00:47:09,720 --> 00:47:12,760
beliefs of the church and they
don't want to believe that their
832
00:47:12,760 --> 00:47:14,240
church actually teaches those
things.
833
00:47:14,320 --> 00:47:18,040
You know, they're harassing me
on the stand trying to get me
834
00:47:18,200 --> 00:47:21,920
using the family proclamation as
impeachment evidence, which I
835
00:47:21,920 --> 00:47:26,800
just think it's crazy to think
you can impeach my testimony of
836
00:47:26,800 --> 00:47:29,840
the gospel, you know, and he's a
member of the church.
837
00:47:29,840 --> 00:47:34,400
And ultimately it's just they
make themselves look stupid and
838
00:47:34,400 --> 00:47:38,840
they get what they deserve
because I'm not an attorney, but
839
00:47:38,840 --> 00:47:40,840
I can hold my own with any
attorney.
840
00:47:40,920 --> 00:47:46,600
I, I may not know, like the
procedural side of things, but
841
00:47:46,600 --> 00:47:50,040
as far as arguing, I'm, I can
hold my own, especially when it
842
00:47:50,040 --> 00:47:54,000
comes to these issues.
I know my stuff and they do look
843
00:47:54,000 --> 00:47:56,560
stupid in my opinion.
They look really stupid in that
844
00:47:56,560 --> 00:48:01,240
courtroom.
So it's funny, but it's also not
845
00:48:01,240 --> 00:48:04,680
funny like the the financial
side of it and.
846
00:48:04,960 --> 00:48:06,640
It's a waste of everybody's time
in mind.
847
00:48:07,240 --> 00:48:09,400
Yeah.
Right, your guys's money, right,
848
00:48:09,680 --> 00:48:12,560
because you're the ones that
have to have to pay to defend
849
00:48:12,560 --> 00:48:17,200
yourselves, right?
This other PTA volunteer seems
850
00:48:17,200 --> 00:48:21,760
to be fairly well off right?
Like she can she, she has the
851
00:48:21,760 --> 00:48:24,120
wherewithal to throw money at
this right?
852
00:48:24,720 --> 00:48:28,240
And it, it, it really sticks in
my craw when, when they start
853
00:48:28,240 --> 00:48:32,120
using the law as a weapon in a
crowbar, right?
854
00:48:32,120 --> 00:48:33,760
And that's what it really is,
right?
855
00:48:33,760 --> 00:48:35,480
They want, they want you to sit
down.
856
00:48:35,480 --> 00:48:39,120
They want you to be quiet.
They don't want, and, and if
857
00:48:39,120 --> 00:48:43,040
you, you dare speak out against
them, they're, they're look,
858
00:48:43,040 --> 00:48:45,560
I'll, I'll be honest, just
looking at it from the outside,
859
00:48:46,040 --> 00:48:48,440
they're trying to make an
example of you, right?
860
00:48:48,840 --> 00:48:52,640
Do not talk, speak out.
Do not challenge us because
861
00:48:52,640 --> 00:48:56,360
we'll come down from on high and
we'll find somebody with pockets
862
00:48:56,360 --> 00:49:04,280
deep enough to go after you
right It it boggles my mind that
863
00:49:04,280 --> 00:49:09,200
your support of the the
proclamation of the the
864
00:49:09,200 --> 00:49:12,880
proclamation on the family is
this controversial, right?
865
00:49:12,880 --> 00:49:16,600
That that is the tool and, and
this is something else I wanted
866
00:49:16,600 --> 00:49:19,800
to draw attention to, right?
And I want to be clear on this,
867
00:49:20,560 --> 00:49:24,960
on this show, I, I, I have no
access to grind with the LDS
868
00:49:24,960 --> 00:49:27,200
church.
I enjoyed my time there, right?
869
00:49:27,520 --> 00:49:29,840
I felt like it prepared me for
other things.
870
00:49:30,160 --> 00:49:33,880
I, I really felt like my time
was well spent there.
871
00:49:34,320 --> 00:49:40,960
However, I think it needs to be
stated that things are not well
872
00:49:40,960 --> 00:49:46,200
in Zion, right?
That, and, and as I've looked
873
00:49:46,200 --> 00:49:51,880
back at this whole thing with
the LGBTQ movement, I think I
874
00:49:51,880 --> 00:49:56,520
think that that on a lot of our
part, we had this idea that, OK,
875
00:49:56,520 --> 00:50:00,840
they, they just want, they just
want tolerance, right?
876
00:50:01,360 --> 00:50:03,960
And I'm sure a lot of them did.
That's all they wanted.
877
00:50:04,480 --> 00:50:06,400
And we were willing to
accommodate that.
878
00:50:07,440 --> 00:50:12,360
But there was another faction on
that side that was playing to
879
00:50:12,360 --> 00:50:14,480
win.
And sometimes I don't think we
880
00:50:14,480 --> 00:50:18,320
quite understood who, that, who
our enemy was necessarily,
881
00:50:18,320 --> 00:50:20,160
right?
We thought we could be like,
882
00:50:20,160 --> 00:50:22,960
sure, yeah, except, you know,
tolerance.
883
00:50:22,960 --> 00:50:26,760
I get it, right?
I, I don't want anybody to
884
00:50:26,760 --> 00:50:32,840
suffer unduly, right.
However, there's a right and
885
00:50:32,840 --> 00:50:34,640
there's a wrong right.
And you know what?
886
00:50:34,640 --> 00:50:37,280
We can be good neighbors without
hugging it out on Sundays.
887
00:50:37,560 --> 00:50:43,000
And what I've seen from that
side of the aisle a lot is they
888
00:50:43,000 --> 00:50:46,560
don't want just tolerance.
They want someone to bow the
889
00:50:46,560 --> 00:50:54,040
knee and enfranchisement fully
right And in this sort of a deal
890
00:50:54,040 --> 00:51:00,760
there is there is way there The
the the the the chasm that
891
00:51:00,760 --> 00:51:03,000
separates us is way too much
right.
892
00:51:03,240 --> 00:51:08,520
There's no other religion in all
of Christianity that puts as
893
00:51:08,520 --> 00:51:13,920
much emphasis on mom and dad and
kids as Mormon Mormonism does,
894
00:51:14,040 --> 00:51:17,240
right?
And so to deny that is to deny a
895
00:51:17,280 --> 00:51:24,880
central tenant of your faith.
And so the LGBTQ thing doesn't
896
00:51:24,880 --> 00:51:26,720
really hold water with the
religion.
897
00:51:26,720 --> 00:51:30,040
Now, that doesn't mean you have
to be mean to him, which I don't
898
00:51:30,040 --> 00:51:33,280
see you guys have ever done.
But you guys certainly have
899
00:51:33,280 --> 00:51:37,000
stood your ground and rightfully
so when they've kind of came
900
00:51:37,000 --> 00:51:42,920
after your kids, right?
And that is very much the the
901
00:51:42,920 --> 00:51:45,960
tactic, right?
They know that, look at our age,
902
00:51:45,960 --> 00:51:48,080
they know we're not bending at
this point, right?
903
00:51:48,080 --> 00:51:51,400
They know who we are.
So they go after the kids 'cause
904
00:51:51,400 --> 00:51:53,000
they're still young and
impressionable.
905
00:51:55,160 --> 00:51:56,880
Right, I can make a comment here
if you want.
906
00:51:57,120 --> 00:52:00,920
Absolutely.
As far as I've discussed this
907
00:52:00,920 --> 00:52:05,840
before on another show, there's
a, there's a reason that they,
908
00:52:06,080 --> 00:52:10,080
the word 'cause when I found out
there were these equity book
909
00:52:10,080 --> 00:52:14,080
bundles in my kids schools in
2020, I'm like, oh great, fine,
910
00:52:14,080 --> 00:52:16,160
whatever.
I didn't really look into them,
911
00:52:16,280 --> 00:52:20,360
but I honestly thought that they
were called the equality book
912
00:52:20,360 --> 00:52:24,000
bundles, you know, equality.
And I was talking, once this
913
00:52:24,000 --> 00:52:26,720
stuff started happening, I was
talking to one of the moms in
914
00:52:26,720 --> 00:52:28,240
the school.
She's like the equity book
915
00:52:28,240 --> 00:52:30,240
bundles.
I'm like, you mean the equality
916
00:52:30,240 --> 00:52:32,040
book bundles?
She's like, no equity.
917
00:52:32,520 --> 00:52:36,320
And I'm like, OK, what's that?
So I'm like looking into it and
918
00:52:36,320 --> 00:52:39,560
that is there's a reason that
they're not using equality.
919
00:52:39,560 --> 00:52:42,720
They're using equity because it
means we get lifted above.
920
00:52:43,280 --> 00:52:47,920
And like everything I had looked
into with equity, it was like we
921
00:52:47,920 --> 00:52:51,960
the, the people who are
privileged white people,
922
00:52:51,960 --> 00:52:55,480
Christian, straight, they need
to sit on the back burner and
923
00:52:55,480 --> 00:52:58,080
let all the people who are on
the outside of the
924
00:52:58,080 --> 00:53:03,120
intersectional wheel, all the
persecuted or whatever, sit at
925
00:53:03,120 --> 00:53:04,960
the front.
We all need to put our beliefs
926
00:53:04,960 --> 00:53:10,120
on the back burner and let this
take takes like center stage.
927
00:53:10,360 --> 00:53:12,560
And that's what it that's really
what it was.
928
00:53:12,840 --> 00:53:18,360
And the the US Constitution
protects equality, you know, it
929
00:53:18,360 --> 00:53:20,240
doesn't.
There's nothing in there like it
930
00:53:20,240 --> 00:53:23,560
protects equity.
So yeah, I agree in that way
931
00:53:23,560 --> 00:53:30,000
that that is what was going on.
And as I researched, like I
932
00:53:30,000 --> 00:53:33,480
watched, there was this
conference called the Pride Not
933
00:53:33,480 --> 00:53:36,680
Prejudice Conference in Salt
Lake City with all the they
934
00:53:36,680 --> 00:53:40,600
invited all Utah educators.
By the Pride Center, Utah Pride.
935
00:53:40,640 --> 00:53:44,760
Center, yeah, put on by the Utah
Pride Center and the Murray
936
00:53:44,760 --> 00:53:47,440
Equity.
The Murray District Equity
937
00:53:47,600 --> 00:53:51,280
Council presented, which I
didn't even know they existed
938
00:53:51,280 --> 00:53:53,360
until this point.
So this was January 2021.
939
00:53:53,360 --> 00:53:57,240
I watched this presentation by
this, these people from my
940
00:53:57,240 --> 00:53:59,680
school district and they're
talking about the equity book
941
00:53:59,680 --> 00:54:05,720
bundles and you know all there
were like several presentations
942
00:54:05,720 --> 00:54:08,600
throughout this whole
conference.
943
00:54:08,960 --> 00:54:10,960
And Murray teachers were
presenting right?
944
00:54:11,360 --> 00:54:13,520
Yeah, so one of the
presentations was from Murray
945
00:54:13,520 --> 00:54:17,880
teachers, but some of them there
was this lady named Kyle Myers.
946
00:54:18,280 --> 00:54:24,360
And she actually straight up
said that they wanted to
947
00:54:24,520 --> 00:54:28,960
intergenerationally disrupt the
values that were being
948
00:54:28,960 --> 00:54:31,280
transmitted from parents to
children.
949
00:54:31,520 --> 00:54:33,680
It wasn't like it wasn't a
hidden message.
950
00:54:33,680 --> 00:54:37,800
It was written on her slide.
She was the keynote.
951
00:54:37,800 --> 00:54:41,200
She was the keynote speaker.
She's this lady who she raises
952
00:54:41,200 --> 00:54:44,640
her child like with no genders.
She she's never revealed what
953
00:54:44,640 --> 00:54:48,480
her child's real gender is.
And she's just, you know, all in
954
00:54:48,480 --> 00:54:50,880
on this ideology.
And she's queer.
955
00:54:52,000 --> 00:54:56,040
Yeah, she says she's queer.
But so no, it's not even.
956
00:54:56,240 --> 00:55:00,800
They don't even hide it that
their goal is to disrupt the
957
00:55:00,800 --> 00:55:03,360
intergenerational values that
are being transmitted from
958
00:55:03,360 --> 00:55:08,280
parents to children.
They are trying to create a
959
00:55:08,280 --> 00:55:11,920
schism or chasm or whatever you
want to call it between the
960
00:55:11,920 --> 00:55:15,040
parents and the children.
And that is what was happening
961
00:55:15,240 --> 00:55:18,240
in my child's third grade
classroom when his teacher read
962
00:55:18,240 --> 00:55:20,640
this book saying you can change
your gender.
963
00:55:20,800 --> 00:55:24,000
Your gender is like, you're not
necessarily a male or a female.
964
00:55:24,000 --> 00:55:26,880
You're whatever you want to be.
And if your parents tell you
965
00:55:26,880 --> 00:55:31,040
otherwise, they made a mistake.
It's straight up said your
966
00:55:31,040 --> 00:55:33,040
parents made a mistake in the
book.
967
00:55:33,280 --> 00:55:37,800
So they are pitting children
against their own parents and
968
00:55:39,200 --> 00:55:41,640
that's just not OK under any
circumstances.
969
00:55:41,640 --> 00:55:44,040
It's just not OK.
You know, if a parent in their
970
00:55:44,040 --> 00:55:47,960
home wants to teach their child
that he has no gender and he can
971
00:55:47,960 --> 00:55:50,520
switch whatever, I think that's
baloney.
972
00:55:50,640 --> 00:55:52,280
But that's a parent's right to
do that.
973
00:55:52,280 --> 00:55:54,640
If they want to teach their
children that bull crap, that's
974
00:55:54,640 --> 00:55:57,120
their right.
But if I want to teach my child
975
00:55:57,120 --> 00:56:00,760
that he's a child of God and
that his gender is immutable and
976
00:56:00,760 --> 00:56:04,960
it's eternal and it is a part of
who he is as a spirit, and it
977
00:56:04,960 --> 00:56:08,360
will never change.
And no amount of changing your
978
00:56:08,360 --> 00:56:11,640
clothes or wearing makeup or
whatever will change who you are
979
00:56:11,640 --> 00:56:15,160
as a son of God.
That is my not, not only my
980
00:56:15,160 --> 00:56:19,040
right, but my responsibility.
And no school system, no state
981
00:56:19,440 --> 00:56:24,680
system has the right to take
that responsibility away from me
982
00:56:24,880 --> 00:56:29,400
or to step in there and break
those those generational values
983
00:56:29,400 --> 00:56:31,920
that are that I'm intentionally
teaching my kids.
984
00:56:31,920 --> 00:56:36,360
And it was insane watching that
conference.
985
00:56:36,360 --> 00:56:40,280
I was floored.
And this is January 2021.
986
00:56:40,280 --> 00:56:45,200
I was like, at that time, I was
terrified for my children on a
987
00:56:45,200 --> 00:56:48,120
spiritual level.
And since that time, I've come
988
00:56:48,120 --> 00:56:50,720
to realize, like, I'm not
helpless.
989
00:56:51,600 --> 00:56:55,880
I can stand up to these people.
I can teach my children to stand
990
00:56:55,880 --> 00:56:59,600
up to these people.
And we're going to do that.
991
00:56:59,680 --> 00:57:01,040
We're going to do everything we
can.
992
00:57:01,240 --> 00:57:04,200
We're not helpless, you know.
Absolutely.
993
00:57:04,520 --> 00:57:07,320
God will strengthen us as we try
to do our best so.
994
00:57:07,600 --> 00:57:11,560
Absolutely.
You know who else pitted parents
995
00:57:11,560 --> 00:57:14,680
against, I mean kids against
their parents?
996
00:57:15,360 --> 00:57:19,200
The Nazis, right, I hate to I
and I'm not backing down from
997
00:57:19,200 --> 00:57:21,920
that.
I'm anticipating they to be
998
00:57:21,920 --> 00:57:23,920
honest.
I do you know, I'm one of these
999
00:57:23,920 --> 00:57:25,520
days I'm going to make A and so.
Did not.
1000
00:57:25,520 --> 00:57:29,600
On my hate mail, right?
But, but what's that, would you
1001
00:57:29,600 --> 00:57:30,520
say?
Sorry, Tony.
1002
00:57:30,720 --> 00:57:34,680
What did Mao if you if you
listen, James Lindsey compares
1003
00:57:34,680 --> 00:57:38,800
the pride movement to Mao the.
Chinese Cultural Revolution.
1004
00:57:38,800 --> 00:57:42,280
Yeah, Cultural revolution and
it's intersectionality is.
1005
00:57:42,280 --> 00:57:45,760
If you listen to Zevan Fleet,
you know who went through it,
1006
00:57:46,320 --> 00:57:48,440
and then you listen to like
people from the Soviet Union,
1007
00:57:48,440 --> 00:57:50,320
they talk about the
similarities.
1008
00:57:50,320 --> 00:57:55,200
And I mean, in the, in Mao's
Cultural Revolution, he had the,
1009
00:57:56,120 --> 00:58:00,920
the five blacks and the five
Reds, you know, and if you were
1010
00:58:00,920 --> 00:58:03,440
a black, you want to do, do
everything you could to get on
1011
00:58:03,440 --> 00:58:07,680
the side of the Reds.
And it's just so much like
1012
00:58:07,680 --> 00:58:10,080
intersectionality, where if
you're on this side of the
1013
00:58:10,120 --> 00:58:14,840
wheel, you know, if you're a
white, straight Christian, like
1014
00:58:15,160 --> 00:58:18,720
from middle and middle class,
whatever, you're so privileged.
1015
00:58:18,800 --> 00:58:20,880
But what can you do to become
less privileged?
1016
00:58:20,880 --> 00:58:23,640
You're the oppressor.
Yeah, oppressor, you can become
1017
00:58:23,640 --> 00:58:28,720
LGBTQ and all the sudden you're
a victim and and in reality, the
1018
00:58:28,720 --> 00:58:31,280
victims have the power in this
situation.
1019
00:58:31,280 --> 00:58:35,600
And so it motivates children to
join this side, and then all the
1020
00:58:35,600 --> 00:58:38,640
sudden they're like a special
person on the intersectional
1021
00:58:38,640 --> 00:58:41,480
will.
And it's just very in line with
1022
00:58:41,480 --> 00:58:44,600
what Mao's cultural revolution
did with the five blacks and the
1023
00:58:44,840 --> 00:58:46,480
five Reds.
And I think they had the four
1024
00:58:46,480 --> 00:58:50,240
olds and just all these ways
that they were trying to destroy
1025
00:58:50,240 --> 00:58:54,440
tradition and get children to be
against their parents.
1026
00:58:54,440 --> 00:58:59,200
Snitch on their parents and
you're about Nazi Nazi group or
1027
00:58:59,200 --> 00:59:01,040
whatever.
They did the same stuff.
1028
00:59:01,400 --> 00:59:09,200
Right, all of this, like this
whole trance thing, the LGBTQ
1029
00:59:09,560 --> 00:59:12,080
agenda as it's pushed by the
leaders up top.
1030
00:59:12,560 --> 00:59:16,400
What I see there is I see
they've managed to take the
1031
00:59:16,400 --> 00:59:21,720
worst parts of religion and the
worst parts of communism and
1032
00:59:21,720 --> 00:59:26,240
marry the two into some ungodly
abomination, right?
1033
00:59:26,560 --> 00:59:30,040
Because it's got all the
hallmarks of a religion, right?
1034
00:59:30,480 --> 00:59:32,560
Look, you can't change your
gender.
1035
00:59:32,560 --> 00:59:35,960
I don't care what anybody says,
you can't change it.
1036
00:59:36,120 --> 00:59:38,800
It's biology.
It's science, right?
1037
00:59:39,720 --> 00:59:42,560
And and it doesn't and it's.
Spiritual, you know.
1038
00:59:42,880 --> 00:59:45,640
And it's spiritual before.
We came to this world.
1039
00:59:45,960 --> 00:59:48,960
Yes, it's for us.
It's very much spiritual, right.
1040
00:59:49,640 --> 00:59:56,120
And so you have you absolutely
have to to have and and I'm
1041
00:59:56,120 --> 00:59:59,880
going to use this word not in
the context that that you and I
1042
00:59:59,880 --> 01:00:03,320
would use it as Mormons, but it
very much is a leap of faith to
1043
01:00:03,320 --> 01:00:05,880
go well.
I know biologically I'm a guy,
1044
01:00:05,880 --> 01:00:09,840
but I'm really a girl, right?
That is a, that is a leap of
1045
01:00:09,840 --> 01:00:14,400
faith, one that's not grounded
in anything, but nevertheless,
1046
01:00:14,400 --> 01:00:16,680
it's faith.
And then you're absolutely
1047
01:00:16,680 --> 01:00:20,440
right.
All of this stuff is has to work
1048
01:00:20,440 --> 01:00:24,920
through critical theory, right?
It's got to be done from an
1049
01:00:24,920 --> 01:00:27,880
oppressed oppressor class
designation.
1050
01:00:28,320 --> 01:00:32,680
And if that's the only way it
survives, and in today's society
1051
01:00:32,680 --> 01:00:37,720
where victimization seems to be
the the currency of choice, it
1052
01:00:37,720 --> 01:00:42,080
becomes very appealing, right?
No, no longer the cool kids, the
1053
01:00:42,080 --> 01:00:47,200
ones who played football or were
really good at academics.
1054
01:00:47,520 --> 01:00:51,520
Now the cool kids are the ones
who can claim victim status the
1055
01:00:51,520 --> 01:00:54,320
most.
And those up top have figured
1056
01:00:54,320 --> 01:00:58,720
out how to weaponize that.
And it is absolutely frightening
1057
01:01:00,440 --> 01:01:02,960
at this point.
How has the the trial been
1058
01:01:02,960 --> 01:01:04,320
going?
How long have you been going to
1059
01:01:04,320 --> 01:01:10,840
trial now?
We started in January 2024
1060
01:01:11,120 --> 01:01:16,160
because we did AU pepa hearing,
which U pepa is basically saying
1061
01:01:16,160 --> 01:01:18,600
that someone is trying to
silence you on a matter of
1062
01:01:18,600 --> 01:01:20,880
public concern.
They're using litigation to
1063
01:01:20,880 --> 01:01:24,480
silence you and I.
I feel like that law really
1064
01:01:24,480 --> 01:01:26,840
covered what we were doing.
But unfortunately, at the time I
1065
01:01:26,840 --> 01:01:32,680
had an attorney, he was just a
bad attorney and he really
1066
01:01:32,680 --> 01:01:33,960
wanted to argue the 1st
Amendment.
1067
01:01:33,960 --> 01:01:35,840
He thinks he's like a First
Amendment hero.
1068
01:01:35,840 --> 01:01:40,200
And so he kind of screwed over.
He didn't kind of, he 100%
1069
01:01:40,200 --> 01:01:43,200
screwed over our case on the
EUPEPA hearing.
1070
01:01:43,480 --> 01:01:48,880
And then I ended up firing him
and hired my current attorney,
1071
01:01:48,880 --> 01:01:50,880
Gaud Marrigani, who's just
amazing.
1072
01:01:51,320 --> 01:01:57,520
And so then we went to, we
finally went to, I don't know if
1073
01:01:57,520 --> 01:02:01,320
you call it trial or just
hearing of the hearing on like
1074
01:02:01,320 --> 01:02:05,160
the evidentiary hearing for this
whole stalking injunction in
1075
01:02:05,160 --> 01:02:08,520
January of 2025.
And then it was supposed to be 1
1076
01:02:08,520 --> 01:02:11,320
hearing, but it took so long
that we ended up having to do 2.
1077
01:02:11,320 --> 01:02:14,760
So our second hearing was just
this March of 2025.
1078
01:02:15,280 --> 01:02:20,280
And we will have the final It's
not AI don't know.
1079
01:02:20,280 --> 01:02:22,200
It's not a hearing.
It's just for the judge to like,
1080
01:02:22,200 --> 01:02:26,320
ask questions in July, yeah, in
July of 2025.
1081
01:02:26,320 --> 01:02:30,240
And then it should be done.
And as far as what I feel about
1082
01:02:30,240 --> 01:02:34,640
it, like how it's been going, I
think, and this is from my
1083
01:02:34,640 --> 01:02:41,040
perspective, but I think that
the truth is obvious and it
1084
01:02:41,040 --> 01:02:44,920
really depends on the judge.
The problem is that the stalking
1085
01:02:44,920 --> 01:02:49,280
statue itself is
unconstitutional because
1086
01:02:49,280 --> 01:02:53,600
technically you can stalk
someone by talking or posting
1087
01:02:53,600 --> 01:02:56,680
about them two times.
And you know, I have maintained,
1088
01:02:57,640 --> 01:03:00,480
right, Which I'm like, we all
annoy people, I guess we're all
1089
01:03:00,480 --> 01:03:03,400
stalkers and we all talk about
like people who affect us.
1090
01:03:03,400 --> 01:03:06,560
I guess if that is stalking,
then we're all stalkers.
1091
01:03:07,080 --> 01:03:13,120
But the the reality, I think the
reality is clear.
1092
01:03:13,120 --> 01:03:17,240
But if the judge decides to just
rule according to the letter of
1093
01:03:17,240 --> 01:03:20,280
the law, the way the stalking
statute is written, I could
1094
01:03:20,280 --> 01:03:23,160
potentially lose, which if that
happens, then we'll go to
1095
01:03:23,160 --> 01:03:25,920
appeals, you know, and who knows
how far up this will go.
1096
01:03:25,920 --> 01:03:28,240
And that's, again, like putting
our faith in God.
1097
01:03:28,240 --> 01:03:30,520
We're not going to back down at
any point.
1098
01:03:30,800 --> 01:03:32,680
Yeah, how much is freedom worth?
Right.
1099
01:03:33,120 --> 01:03:36,120
Exactly.
But as far as how I feel it's
1100
01:03:36,120 --> 01:03:38,200
been going, I think the truth is
obvious.
1101
01:03:38,480 --> 01:03:42,000
I think my testimony versus her
testimony, you can tell which
1102
01:03:42,000 --> 01:03:45,720
one of us is honest and which
one of us is a belligerent liar.
1103
01:03:45,720 --> 01:03:47,920
And I probably don't know.
I don't know if I should put
1104
01:03:47,920 --> 01:03:49,960
that in there.
But you can tell which one of us
1105
01:03:49,960 --> 01:03:54,080
is honest.
And I think it's, you know, I'm
1106
01:03:54,080 --> 01:03:59,280
not worried about the truth, but
it's all in the judge's hands
1107
01:03:59,320 --> 01:04:01,240
and depends on how she wants to
take this.
1108
01:04:01,320 --> 01:04:04,720
It's a public hearing so anybody
can go and down the OR pay for
1109
01:04:04,720 --> 01:04:08,640
the audio.
The testimony, it's actually, it
1110
01:04:08,760 --> 01:04:12,040
actually is laughable.
I was on the stand in March and
1111
01:04:12,040 --> 01:04:14,160
I was, which was just a couple
weeks ago.
1112
01:04:14,160 --> 01:04:18,640
I knew my stuff, you know, And
I, it was, I felt really good
1113
01:04:18,640 --> 01:04:21,920
about how it went down.
Yeah, there's a lot of a lot of
1114
01:04:22,360 --> 01:04:24,360
times you're like, is this real
life?
1115
01:04:24,640 --> 01:04:26,720
You know?
Yeah, it's they're actually
1116
01:04:26,960 --> 01:04:29,640
saying this in court.
It's crazy.
1117
01:04:30,280 --> 01:04:34,720
So you guys are driving from an
undisclosed location in Idaho to
1118
01:04:34,760 --> 01:04:39,040
your back to Murray whenever you
have a court date?
1119
01:04:40,200 --> 01:04:41,040
Right.
It's in Salt Lake.
1120
01:04:41,040 --> 01:04:42,680
But yeah, we drive to Salt Lake
every time.
1121
01:04:45,920 --> 01:04:52,720
OK, so look, I know that court
costs can be expensive.
1122
01:04:53,040 --> 01:04:56,720
Attorneys are expensive.
Do you guys have a GoFundMe or
1123
01:04:56,720 --> 01:04:59,840
something like that that I can
direct my my folks to if they
1124
01:04:59,840 --> 01:05:01,360
wanted to help out and
contribute?
1125
01:05:02,600 --> 01:05:07,040
Yeah, we have a Gibson Go like I
don't know the exact link, but
1126
01:05:07,040 --> 01:05:09,720
we can give it to you.
Yeah, If you give that to me, I
1127
01:05:09,720 --> 01:05:11,120
want to put that in the show
notes.
1128
01:05:11,120 --> 01:05:18,760
Because here's the thing, a lot
of us, you know, we're not,
1129
01:05:19,440 --> 01:05:21,760
we're not directly in the fight,
right?
1130
01:05:21,760 --> 01:05:25,880
We haven't had to deal with it
yet when when these things do
1131
01:05:25,880 --> 01:05:29,760
come up, right?
The American judicial system is
1132
01:05:29,760 --> 01:05:31,960
based off of starry decisis,
right?
1133
01:05:32,160 --> 01:05:37,080
Which basically says this, that
other judges don't want to
1134
01:05:37,400 --> 01:05:40,040
overturn some other judge's
decision, right?
1135
01:05:40,040 --> 01:05:44,280
It takes an extreme amount of
evidence to rule in the opposite
1136
01:05:44,280 --> 01:05:46,440
of that.
So in these sorts of things that
1137
01:05:46,440 --> 01:05:50,640
kind of set precedent, they're
super important, right?
1138
01:05:50,640 --> 01:05:55,360
Because this will be the norm
going forward, right?
1139
01:05:55,760 --> 01:06:00,360
And that's what that's why it
was so hard for a lot of years
1140
01:06:00,360 --> 01:06:05,480
to overturn Roe V Wade, right?
Was because that was the first
1141
01:06:05,480 --> 01:06:08,440
time that that case had went up
to the Supreme Court.
1142
01:06:08,840 --> 01:06:11,760
And it took us the better part
of 50 years to overturn it,
1143
01:06:11,800 --> 01:06:14,160
right?
So this, this kind of case is
1144
01:06:14,160 --> 01:06:16,760
important.
And we all have, if your kids go
1145
01:06:16,760 --> 01:06:20,040
to public school, you got skin
in the game, right?
1146
01:06:20,200 --> 01:06:25,360
You may not feel it right now,
but understand that if, if April
1147
01:06:25,360 --> 01:06:29,480
and Tony lose this case, they're
more emboldened.
1148
01:06:29,480 --> 01:06:32,480
So it behooves us all to, to
stand with them on this.
1149
01:06:32,480 --> 01:06:36,440
So send me that link and let me
put that in the episode show
1150
01:06:36,440 --> 01:06:39,120
notes.
Cause like, if everybody that I
1151
01:06:39,120 --> 01:06:41,960
talk to, it's not a huge
podcast, but if everybody
1152
01:06:42,280 --> 01:06:46,600
donated 5 bucks, right, it would
probably put you over the top of
1153
01:06:46,600 --> 01:06:50,280
where you needed to be, right?
And and I feel like this case is
1154
01:06:50,280 --> 01:06:56,000
important. $50,000 in the hole,
so I don't know if I.
1155
01:06:57,960 --> 01:06:59,480
Depends on how many people you
get if.
1156
01:06:59,480 --> 01:07:03,880
You have 10,000 then, yeah.
And look, a large chunk of my
1157
01:07:03,880 --> 01:07:07,320
audience are active LDS card
carrying members of the LDS
1158
01:07:07,320 --> 01:07:11,280
church, right?
So they should have and, and
1159
01:07:11,280 --> 01:07:14,560
look, if you're listening to
this podcast, chance, unless
1160
01:07:14,560 --> 01:07:17,240
you're listening to find out
what the enemy's saying, but
1161
01:07:17,320 --> 01:07:19,400
realistically, if you're
listening to this podcast,
1162
01:07:19,400 --> 01:07:21,920
chances are you're on kind of
the conservative side of the
1163
01:07:21,920 --> 01:07:26,000
spectrum, right?
And so I think I got some people
1164
01:07:26,000 --> 01:07:28,800
that can help.
What else can the audience do to
1165
01:07:28,800 --> 01:07:33,840
help you out?
I what would you?
1166
01:07:34,520 --> 01:07:40,520
Say, I would say don't depend on
the leadership of the church to
1167
01:07:40,520 --> 01:07:43,240
fight your battles.
You've got to be an agent unto
1168
01:07:43,240 --> 01:07:48,960
yourself and speak up in school
if you see something that's not
1169
01:07:48,960 --> 01:07:52,440
right, you got to be courageous
and and speak up.
1170
01:07:52,920 --> 01:07:56,120
And I'm not as good at that as
as she is, but she's a good
1171
01:07:56,120 --> 01:07:59,360
example.
Just read her post You'll you'll
1172
01:07:59,640 --> 01:08:03,160
you'll understand the issues
really well and and be able to
1173
01:08:03,160 --> 01:08:05,920
speak up a lot better.
When's your next court case?
1174
01:08:05,920 --> 01:08:07,360
When?
When's your next court date?
1175
01:08:08,720 --> 01:08:11,480
July 2nd is.
It open to the public.
1176
01:08:12,320 --> 01:08:14,520
It is, yeah.
Maybe we should just flood that
1177
01:08:14,520 --> 01:08:16,640
place.
That'd be.
1178
01:08:17,279 --> 01:08:19,600
Awesome.
Maybe it's time we just go ahead
1179
01:08:19,600 --> 01:08:24,880
and put butts and seats in there
and just just maybe, maybe be in
1180
01:08:24,880 --> 01:08:26,720
there.
Maybe it's time that happens
1181
01:08:27,640 --> 01:08:30,359
because this, this cannot stand,
right?
1182
01:08:30,359 --> 01:08:34,080
This, this just cannot stand.
So, yeah, well.
1183
01:08:34,399 --> 01:08:36,880
I want to hear what April.
Were you going to say something,
1184
01:08:37,040 --> 01:08:45,680
April, as far as what we can do?
I guess I would say like if you
1185
01:08:45,680 --> 01:08:48,680
see your neighbor taking a stand
on something, help him.
1186
01:08:49,000 --> 01:08:53,600
You know, don't not just behind
the scenes, like get out of your
1187
01:08:53,600 --> 01:08:58,080
comfort zone, go to school board
meetings with them, get a get in
1188
01:08:58,080 --> 01:09:03,680
public and have a little faith.
Because some people are so quick
1189
01:09:03,680 --> 01:09:07,520
to be like, oh, well, my job or
my whatever, or like, I'll
1190
01:09:07,520 --> 01:09:12,760
offend so and so or you know
what faith means you do
1191
01:09:12,760 --> 01:09:15,160
something when you're scared to
do it.
1192
01:09:15,479 --> 01:09:18,200
You know, faith means you do it
when it's hard.
1193
01:09:18,479 --> 01:09:20,880
If if it's easy for you, that's
not faith.
1194
01:09:21,319 --> 01:09:26,439
And I just like someone said in
Sunday school a while back, like
1195
01:09:26,600 --> 01:09:29,760
the church leaders might call on
us to do some really hard
1196
01:09:29,760 --> 01:09:31,399
things.
And I'm just sitting there like,
1197
01:09:32,080 --> 01:09:33,880
are you kidding me?
Did you?
1198
01:09:33,880 --> 01:09:36,600
The failing proclamation was
released 30 years ago.
1199
01:09:36,600 --> 01:09:39,200
Almost.
It's not going to be them
1200
01:09:39,200 --> 01:09:41,399
calling on us.
They already did.
1201
01:09:41,600 --> 01:09:46,160
The family proclamation says we
call upon responsible citizens
1202
01:09:46,160 --> 01:09:49,080
everywhere to uphold these
values.
1203
01:09:49,359 --> 01:09:52,479
And that's all I'm doing.
That's all I'm doing.
1204
01:09:52,960 --> 01:09:58,160
And you know, I just, I'm like
all the, all the church members
1205
01:09:58,200 --> 01:10:01,320
who are trying to justify flying
pride flags.
1206
01:10:01,680 --> 01:10:05,760
I'm sorry, unequivocally you're
on the wrong side of this issue.
1207
01:10:05,880 --> 01:10:09,960
It's in the long run and even
outside the as you know, cuz
1208
01:10:09,960 --> 01:10:13,120
when I first got into this, I
had to look at this, tried to
1209
01:10:13,120 --> 01:10:15,040
look at it from an objective
perspective.
1210
01:10:15,040 --> 01:10:17,760
Like even if I wasn't a member
of the church, would I take a
1211
01:10:17,760 --> 01:10:22,920
stand on these issues?
And like, I couldn't, I couldn't
1212
01:10:22,920 --> 01:10:28,760
deny that even from an objective
perspective or as as objective
1213
01:10:28,760 --> 01:10:32,240
as I could be, that I would have
to take a stand the same that
1214
01:10:32,240 --> 01:10:36,000
I'm standing now, because under
no circumstances is gender
1215
01:10:36,000 --> 01:10:38,560
ideology helpful to our children
or our our society.
1216
01:10:38,760 --> 01:10:42,040
And you don't have to believe in
God to, to see that that's true.
1217
01:10:42,120 --> 01:10:46,760
You know, it's just a fact.
And I just think regardless of
1218
01:10:46,760 --> 01:10:49,520
where you are in the church,
it's time to step up.
1219
01:10:49,560 --> 01:10:53,000
It's time not to let one or two
people take all the heat.
1220
01:10:53,240 --> 01:10:56,320
And like my husband said, you
shouldn't expect the apostles
1221
01:10:56,320 --> 01:10:59,160
and the prophet and all the your
church leaders to do it for you.
1222
01:10:59,400 --> 01:11:01,080
It's time to get off our own
butts.
1223
01:11:01,320 --> 01:11:06,240
We're the responsible citizens.
Get up and speak up and stop
1224
01:11:06,240 --> 01:11:10,680
being afraid and stop making
excuses because being a real
1225
01:11:10,680 --> 01:11:16,400
peacemaker means you defend the
doctrine that brings peace to
1226
01:11:16,400 --> 01:11:20,240
society.
Yeah, and I would say, you know,
1227
01:11:20,240 --> 01:11:23,640
for me, I'm not, I'm not as
quick on my feet with speaking
1228
01:11:23,640 --> 01:11:28,120
or whatever, but I have other
talents that I can use to
1229
01:11:28,160 --> 01:11:29,960
support people who are good at
it.
1230
01:11:29,960 --> 01:11:32,520
So if I see someone in the
school who's running for school
1231
01:11:32,520 --> 01:11:37,640
board, you know, I'm, I'm iti
can help with a web page or, you
1232
01:11:37,640 --> 01:11:41,040
know, get the word out somehow.
There's other I could drive.
1233
01:11:41,040 --> 01:11:44,240
I could, I can do other things
if I don't have as strong of a
1234
01:11:44,240 --> 01:11:47,880
talent in speaking or whatever.
So, or if you have a lot of
1235
01:11:47,880 --> 01:11:50,840
money, you can, you could donate
money, but there's a lot of
1236
01:11:50,840 --> 01:11:55,360
things you can do that don't
involve having to be like the
1237
01:11:55,360 --> 01:11:57,960
speaker.
You know there's lots of things
1238
01:11:57,960 --> 01:11:59,720
we can do, right?
Absolutely.
1239
01:12:00,440 --> 01:12:03,640
Well, guys, is there anything
else you want to add before we
1240
01:12:03,640 --> 01:12:06,400
wrap up here?
This matters.
1241
01:12:06,400 --> 01:12:09,400
This matters to the public.
And, you know, that's all we're
1242
01:12:09,400 --> 01:12:14,000
trying to do is spread awareness
so that the public knows what's
1243
01:12:14,000 --> 01:12:17,120
going on and that they can take
a stand in their spheres of
1244
01:12:17,120 --> 01:12:18,720
influence 'cause that's what
needs to happen.
1245
01:12:18,720 --> 01:12:21,400
We all need to be doing that.
And, you know, I think that's
1246
01:12:21,400 --> 01:12:24,520
the way that's what this is
really about.
1247
01:12:24,600 --> 01:12:27,200
You know, it's not about talking
about this stupid psychopath
1248
01:12:27,200 --> 01:12:31,080
lady, but there's 500 million
other people just like her.
1249
01:12:32,280 --> 01:12:34,600
Right, she's just one foot
soldier in a larger.
1250
01:12:35,120 --> 01:12:36,440
Right.
Yeah, and she.
1251
01:12:36,440 --> 01:12:38,120
Just happens to have more money
than some of them.
1252
01:12:38,120 --> 01:12:41,000
And when this happens to other
people, it needs to be exposed.
1253
01:12:41,160 --> 01:12:44,680
And we appreciate people like
you who are willing to, you
1254
01:12:44,680 --> 01:12:49,040
know, Yeah.
Like when you said that you're
1255
01:12:49,040 --> 01:12:51,920
not a member of our church to
me, I'm, I don't care.
1256
01:12:52,000 --> 01:12:54,240
I don't care what church you're
a part of.
1257
01:12:54,240 --> 01:12:56,840
I don't care.
Like, even if it was like I told
1258
01:12:56,840 --> 01:12:59,800
my husband I would do an
interview even with people who
1259
01:12:59,800 --> 01:13:04,240
hate me because this is an issue
that affects everyone.
1260
01:13:04,480 --> 01:13:07,200
And whether or not you believe
in my religion, it's a religious
1261
01:13:07,200 --> 01:13:10,480
freedom issue.
We all want, we should all want
1262
01:13:10,480 --> 01:13:13,680
religious freedom.
And I'm not afraid to be
1263
01:13:13,680 --> 01:13:17,320
interviewed by anyone from any
side because I think truth holds
1264
01:13:17,320 --> 01:13:20,400
its ground and I all I'm doing
is speaking the truth.
1265
01:13:20,440 --> 01:13:24,240
So you know.
Well, and, and here's the other
1266
01:13:24,240 --> 01:13:26,160
thing I I've said about
religion, right?
1267
01:13:26,160 --> 01:13:30,360
And look, I'm a guy who doesn't
have any members of the church
1268
01:13:30,360 --> 01:13:33,040
on either side of his family.
I came into this thing so cold.
1269
01:13:34,120 --> 01:13:38,840
And the, the thing was, the
thing that drew me to the gospel
1270
01:13:38,840 --> 01:13:40,880
was this idea of, OK, you know
what?
1271
01:13:40,880 --> 01:13:44,760
Here's the truth, right?
And it doesn't change and it's
1272
01:13:44,760 --> 01:13:48,000
unwavering and it's constant,
and you can hit your wagon to
1273
01:13:48,000 --> 01:13:53,920
it.
And at some point, this idea
1274
01:13:53,920 --> 01:13:58,640
that that that these sorts of
things, these fundamental
1275
01:14:01,040 --> 01:14:04,560
principles, right?
Gender, it doesn't change,
1276
01:14:04,600 --> 01:14:06,520
right?
It's just, it doesn't.
1277
01:14:06,520 --> 01:14:10,120
God doesn't make mistakes when
he creates his children.
1278
01:14:10,680 --> 01:14:15,680
And this idea that that it does
it kind of you, you kind of
1279
01:14:15,680 --> 01:14:18,960
paint God as less than what he
is, right?
1280
01:14:19,200 --> 01:14:22,640
You're what you're saying is, is
that God makes mistakes.
1281
01:14:22,640 --> 01:14:28,240
Well, I have no time or
inclination to follow a God that
1282
01:14:28,240 --> 01:14:32,040
does make mistakes, right.
If, if I wanted to do that, I
1283
01:14:32,040 --> 01:14:37,920
would just get into politics.
And so, yeah, I, I, I really
1284
01:14:38,080 --> 01:14:40,280
have no time for, for that sort
of thing.
1285
01:14:40,280 --> 01:14:42,640
And it's, it's rough stuff.
I get it.
1286
01:14:42,640 --> 01:14:44,240
You guys, you guys have been
through the wringer.
1287
01:14:44,240 --> 01:14:46,080
But I appreciate you standing
up.
1288
01:14:46,080 --> 01:14:49,600
And like I said, we'll, we'll
see if we can't garner some
1289
01:14:49,600 --> 01:14:52,040
support, even if we have to
shelve this episode.
1290
01:14:52,040 --> 01:14:55,680
I think there's other things I
can do to, to get your story out
1291
01:14:55,680 --> 01:14:59,920
front and then see if we can't
get you some help both
1292
01:15:00,360 --> 01:15:02,920
financially and just some
overall support.
1293
01:15:03,640 --> 01:15:06,280
Awesome.
All right, guys, you, you guys
1294
01:15:06,280 --> 01:15:07,840
are great.
You're rock stars.
1295
01:15:08,240 --> 01:15:10,120
Keep me informed.
Let me know how it's going.
1296
01:15:11,080 --> 01:15:12,240
Hey, we will.
Thanks.
1297
01:15:12,440 --> 01:15:15,200
Thanks for having us on.
April, Tony, it was sure good to
1298
01:15:15,200 --> 01:15:16,960
meet you and I think you guys
are amazing.
1299
01:15:17,920 --> 01:15:19,360
Yeah, Well, thank you for having
us on.
1300
01:15:19,360 --> 01:15:21,880
We really appreciate all you're
doing to help us out.
1301
01:15:21,960 --> 01:15:22,760
No sweat.
