Episode #188: Extracting Greater Meaning From The Scriptures W/Edwin Jacobi

0:26 The you're listening to the Mormon Renegade podcast. Edwin, how's it going? Fantastic. Dave. Dude, I got to give a big shout out to Joshua Erickson. I shout that dude out more I think on this podcast. Yeah. And then a lot of other folks. That dude is great. But I, I saw your, your presentation at the Zarahemla Tour Restoration Conference and I wanted to get you on because I, I was kind of fascinated by what, what you had to say there. So shout out to Joshua for putting this in touch.

1:08 But man, it was it was a heck of a presentation you gave man. And I was blazing and it wasn't very long. I covered a lot of ground pretty quick. And fortunately, Joshua's people, those guys, they've got what I call, they've got some Legos in their box. And so the ability for me to just explain a couple of things and people to follow along, you know, given the fact that we're, we're throwing some things at them, they, boy, they came along with it. And I really love that because they understood enough and they had enough. What I like I said, they have enough Legos and understanding the scriptures that when you get to show that to them, their brain gets to assemble that they can look at what you assembled and will go. That's.

1:56 I'm not saying it's right, but it's not wrong. Right. And that's 100%. That's the first part of it. And I find that that's one of the most difficult things in teaching everywhere. So when I spend most of my time with with Jewish people or rabbis or things like that, more so than others, they understand exactly what I'm saying. They just have never looked at the Legos that way. Right. And that's The funny thing. And then over here, everybody's kind of separated when it's all said and done. So I seem to be in the middle ground of interpreting that and it, it works out great. So shout out to him. Absolutely. He, well, you talk about the, the fruit from the tree and he's really got some great people. Yeah, more so than most places I've seen.

2:38 Yeah, you know, and and you hit on something big, right. The idea to think critically is it's kind of becoming a lost art, right? I think far too long we've we've taught kids what to think and not how to think. And I think that's coming back to bite us in in the rear, so to speak. And I was just reading an article, Oh gosh, I want to say two or three weeks ago. And then I was speaking to my buddy Justin about this. Most young adults now cannot read books in third person. Yeah. Right. And that gets really spooky when you start to think about how much of the scripture is written from third person. Absolutely. And then you think about the concept of of Hebrew, ancient Hebrew literary devices, which you would learn in rabbinical school.

3:26 But then again, now you can just look them up. But at the same time, part of what happens is the ones that they talk about that you can access, aren't all of them right? So when we talk about things like the tongue of angels, there are literary devices that God has to teach you that you're not going to learn in rabbinical school, You're not going to look them up in AI. And then the Lord guide you to things that when I was going through this stuff for years and, and working a lot of this out and, and a lot of basic and most all of it being given to me and in an idea. And then I have to go, you know, and I have to go build it and plant it and figure out if it bears fruit and then see if it grows.

4:07 And, and there's, there's things that I've got that are sitting there for four years and you just go, yeah, I wonder how long I need to wait before I think that's not good. Right. So, so every once in a while you kind of metaphorically circle around to the deep part of the garden and go, yeah, I know that was idiotic. It, it sounded really good and, and plausibly it built out really great. But that thing is not moving. So, and, and that's how you know, right. So anyway, I agree with you. The, the thinking critical has become a lost art. And then when you get to a certain point, then you really have to understand how to actually plant the seed. And you have to understand the metrics and the measuring mechanisms behind what God deems is good. And a lot of things that I talked about end up becoming outputted in a very pragmatic and practical way because I teach it constantly in business.

5:02 So when I'm lecturing in front of CE OS, I'm preaching the gospel. I'm just doing it like when the Savior's talking about which of you had 100 sheep and you lost one and you went after it. Well, if we understand that, we realized that the concept of having 100 sheep in today's world is the concept of having really, really good credit. Right. Right. That's your that's your line of this guy has money, we can trust this guy. But you go to 99, guess what, you don't have good credit. That's your line, right? And so when he's talking about that, a lot of people from a practical application really understand. And I think a lot of times we don't understand what those mean. And so for me, everything that I'm doing is, is actually a modern day version of a very complex and dynamic parable because business people can take this stuff and use it to grow. And then what ends up inevitably happening is the Lord gets to work on them, right?

6:02 Because I've given them a whole Lego build. They think it's one thing, but then all of a sudden something comes up in their life relationship with their child, their wife, their this, whatever the deal is, they're caught in a scenario where they need help and they've never really seriously turned to God. And the next thing you know, the Lord can take that circumstance that I've created for them and the output of my of my information and say, no, look, you're already doing it every day. And then I end up having a conversation. Sure. And that's what happens. Real quick before, before we jump in here, a couple of things. I noticed you use the word Legos a lot. Explain to everybody what you mean by that. So everyone's clear on that because you use it a lot and I like it.

6:51 I just want everyone to know what it is you're referring to exactly. Sure, fair enough. So when I talk about Legos, I use it because obviously if you can't teach it to the children, right, then there's no way that you can write, create things with them. So Legos are the base level in our modern day concepts of creation. I like to stay that way because they're tangible. So when I say Legos, I'm talking about things like scriptures and words of Christ. I'm talking about doctrines. But each one of those things, the letters turn into words, turn into paragraphs and sentences and conversations and concepts and so on and so forth.

7:34 And we just keep building and building and building. So for me, when I talk about Legos and people having Legos, if they've read the scriptures enough, I can sit down and have a conversation with them and they can go by pretty quick. Otherwise, I have to sit there and pull each scripture out, read it, and then they don't have enough mastery control over it to visually see those pieces combining together. Because that's, that's part of the concept of being able to understand how to piece this stuff together and study it out in your mind is to, is to create with the word and to attach things together that, that God is saying.

8:15 And, and there be a, there could be a, a million things that he's saying with one particular circumstance or one particular, what we call Lego build. And right, you can just take all the Legos in a master Lego box and go, hey, I want to make a truck, I want to make a boat, I want to make this, I want to make it. Doesn't matter. Now, in the end, it might look like 18 different colors, but framework and structurally it's dead solid, right? Because covering it, right, it's not a big deal. But then you break it down and then you build it again. So an entire master Lego box to dump it on the ground is kind of for me, right? There's matter unorganized know you therefore and organize it into a world.

8:58 And if you don't have the the more Legos you have the more scriptures, the more doctrine, the more understanding. And then with that, don't say this is this right? It's not. You go to the toy store and you go, here's the land speeder from Star Wars. Here's the the fire department. Don't do that because then you're just putting those things up. You're gluing them together. You put them on the shelf and go look at my religion and you go, yeah, but you don't understand that. You're not building anything. You didn't build a thing. You're not a creator, you're an assembler. That's not the same thing. And so therefore you don't understand how the framework of labels work and how the framework of the gospel works. So that when people don't have control over that and they haven't even come close to a person appointed mastery, what ends up happening is they think one thing means one thing and that's all it means. And I look at that and go, so you think God is not that smart? Right, that makes sense.

9:56 And you're like, OK, well, have fun. That's a good conversation. We're going to go talk to some other people. So that's why I, that's why I compliment Joshua's group in their Hummel group, because they really do have a, a good enough amount of Legos that you're going to have a conversation and they're not running around going, no, it's this and this is all it is, which is where what you get all the time because everybody's trying to be right. And you go, yeah, you, you can be right with that, but it also means 1000 different things in its application, right? A guitar is a guitar and you can play whatever type of music you want with it. Yep. And that's part of the problem. So anyway. Absolutely. So real quick, were were you born and raised like everyone? No one ends up on this podcast without a little bit of a journey.

10:42 Right, right, right. Nobody ends up talking to the the the fundamentalist podcast guy without having a little bit of something in the closet to talk about. Sure. Were you, were you raised Mormon in the LDS church? I mean, kind of. What's your background? No. So the background is always grew up for some reason believing that there was a God. And I wouldn't say religious, but religious in the sense that God made sense to me. Ever since I was a little tiny kid, my parents, I was raised quasi Catholic. I guess if we were going to go to church, we were going to Mass, right? And so I think I lost you for a second, Dave, on your.

11:24 I'm back here. You're good. Making sure. So I was raised, I guess, if I, if I could say anything, I was raised Catholic and then my parents were always searching so they'd take us to church after church, after church, after church. And so I'd been in every kind of church you could possibly imagine. I've watched my mother speak in tongues. I don't even know what that means. Back then. I was a child, probably in the second grade, and we're in a Pentecostal church and everybody's hooping in the hollering and nickels and quarters and Dimes are flying in the air. And my brothers and I are going, dude, we're going to go pick that stuff up because that's ice cream. It's so weird. We're scrambling. We're scrambling on the floor just grabbing all the coins we can get.

12:06 And then I remember when I was probably about 8 years old, I was at a Baptist Church in Portland, OR, and they did an altar call, right? It's all the people are going up there. And my mom's starting to cry and she goes up there. And I don't mean this is in any way disparaging to my mother because it, if it weren't for her, I wouldn't have ever pursued any of this. And so I remember her going up there and I'm like, she's getting saved. I need to do that. That's important for me. I'm 8. So I, I go up there and you know, it's standard thing. There's all the stairs and then there's the guy at the, at the top and I, I'm laying down, all these people are crying and I, and I asked my mom and I go, what do I need to do to be saved? And she goes verbatim like I remember this like it was yesterday.

12:52 She said cry and say Jesus a lot. And I thought that is A at 8 years old. I said that is the dumbest thing I have ever heard in ever And I turned around and went and sat down. Well bro, look, some of that could just be Portland. Portland was Portland, you man. Even back when it wasn't Portland. Yeah, yeah. Portland. Portland isn't exactly known as a a hub for logical thought and expression thought. Spirituality and all kinds of stuff like that. So, yeah. So then we ended up getting the missionaries to come over because my dad knew a state president as he worked for Michelin.

13:32 And then as I came back from tennis camp, I was a high-ranking tennis players to junior and I came back from Vegas from being there for for the summer for a tennis camp. And I was there with guys like Agassi, people like that back in the day. And then it came back and all these these missionaries were coming up and they were talking about this is my my own eye from her own eye and and all this kind of goofy crap. But as they taught the discussions, it was very obvious to me that the concept of Joseph and the plates and the translation, that was very obvious to me. I'm not going to tell you that I felt some big, amazing thing. It was just so obvious to me that I'm like, yeah, I got it. I'm with it.

14:16 OK, what do I do now? Get back face done. I did that. Served a mission in Houston at the age of 19, almost 20, and had enormous experiences there and quite a significant amount of success that was very distinguishing from other things and other people in that format. And then that was it. So that I kind of joined up my own free will and choice, my own volition. My parents didn't force us to do it. They just said, what do you want to do? And I went, I'm in and jumped in with both feet and kind of ran it up the flagpole as high as it would go. And and and then things started to shift.

14:56 How old were you when when when you made that jump? 14. OK, all right, 13. 14. Gotcha, gotcha. Parents. And then after that, were you guys pretty active or did you fall away a little bit? What what was kind of cause look. Yeah, I think. I think we all know that in, in, in the church, it's not a matter of getting converts, it's a matter of keeping them. It's keeping them. Yeah. It's retention. It's no different than business, right. It's it's it's your repetitive business, right? It's not your, it's not you. I got them for one, you know, for one, for one buy my parents were active in the sense that they would go. So they were quote, goodly parents, right?

15:36 It in the in the layman's terms of that. So they would go and they would take us, but my brothers fell away. They didn't care for it and but I was dead, dead in. So I never had that format. And I don't say that with any amount of, you know, here and there. I just never did. I was in, I knew this was right. I knew it was good. I served like a maniac. I was the only guy for the longest time when I was 16 and 17 and 18, I think I was one of two priests that could that was worthy enough to bless the sacrament of all the kids in my in my steak.

16:19 At that time, there were I think 32 of us about that age. There were two of us that served missions and three of us that got married in the temple and everybody else left, my brothers included. They were excommunicated. And I don't, you know, back then, you don't know what that really means. You just feel like you guys are leaving the club, right? It's like somebody who quit the football team. It's kind of like that. You don't understand the, whether it's significant or not significant, you don't understand that maybe going that direction is good for them, right? Because that's a path they need to follow. You don't understand that stuff, right? Nobody really explains that to you. They kind of just tell you stay in the boat and you go, yeah, you're right. But then there's then there's Simon Peter walks out of the boat.

16:59 So anyway, in the end, that's what that's what end up happening. So I was, I was in and then I, I've kind of been that way ever since. And then I've had my my shots where I went, all right, this is a bunch of horse crap because I'm not, I'm not a dumb person. And so when you start to understand that and you start to see the dysfunction, you know, then you start to go, OK, let's let's go figure out what's really going on here. And, and so I'm not the guy that gets mad and walks away from anything. I'm the guy that goes, OK, obviously this started out good. Let's go figure out what the crap's going on. So. Let let me ask you this when 'cause it sounds like you're pretty faithful, right? I mean, you're, you're all in.

17:41 You serve a mission, you come home here in the temple. Yeah. You, you know, you've been sealed in the temple when when you're going through that process, right? Because, look, Mormonism is a little different than any other religion, right? It's it's in itself kind of a counterculture, right? And. So when you start having doubts about the church, that can throw a lot of things into chaos in a person's life, right? Right. So as, as you start encountering that, that hey, something's off the rails here a little bit. Did that freak you out at first? I mean, how? How did you approach that?

18:23 No, I think. I think for me, I had a little different situation in that I never had doubts. So mine weren't doubts like other people go either like they have a faith crisis. I never had that. And part of the reason is because I'm a disruptive innovator and a turn around consultant in business. So when they call me this thing's their, their company is a complete, utter disaster. So my whole entire professional life and what I was known for, right? Things that I lectured on, I wrote books about, I built a a large agency and it was always entrepreneurial. So I've never been an orthodox guy to begin with, right? I don't believe in, I don't believe in the general concept of college education. I don't I don't believe in the way that people do things. When people say, well, this is how we do it, my first initial response is bull crap.

19:13 I don't believe you. When anybody says anything to me like that, I don't believe it ever, ever. It doesn't matter what it is. I go figure out what the mechanism is and what the mechanics are and then I go do it myself and and then I prove it. I'll go plant the seed, go grow it. And if it grows what it's supposed to, then I'm listening. Because in my world, in 2 worlds, in my business life and my Batman life, in my business life, you can't just talk whatever the crap you think. Because in inevitably at my level, people spend millions or billions of dollars on it. And if you're wrong, the whole world knows you're a fraud, right? In my Batman life, when we're going and doing combat operations and we're going and doing counter human trafficking stuff and this is all live play for blood. If you're not good, somebody dies, right? So in the end, all of the, I think I'm smart and this is my intellectual dissection.

20:09 I don't care. I want to see it. Right, because I want to see you play for blood. And what I find in, in this kind of kind of endeavour across the board is nobody's really playing for blood. And I don't mean that as a slant on anybody. I just mean I've always done that. So for me, it's always results orientation. If it creates the results, then it works. I don't really care what my opinion is. I'll gang initiate every single stupid thing that comes my way. I'm, I'm more brutal on it than anybody else. And because I, that's how I live my life. So anytime I came across this kind of stuff now, I'd get whacked for it. People get all bent out of shape because they, they kind of want to believe a certain thing. But that doesn't bother me waiting in the, in the, in the black because I'm always living in the void.

20:54 So I don't care, you know? I can kind of identify with with not having the traditional faith crisis. I was kind of the same way, right? I had, I'd converted to, to Mormonism to the OES church when I was like 17, right? And I, I was a guy who was out looking for answers, right? I, I had a specific question in mind. I needed answers. And Mormonism was the only thing that, that that offered that. Yeah. Absolutely and. So now I came to fundamentalism kind of in a different way than most, right? I kind of like start practicing stuff before I ever knew what I was doing. But as, as I started to encounter all the changes that had happened, right, these things where it's like, OK, it might be off the rails. It wasn't that scary to me.

21:42 But I, I got to remember that I was a guy who'd already tore up my foundation once, right? And in the case of going from the LDSLDS church to fundamentalism, well, I'm not even taking it really down to foundation, right? I'm just, I'm just tearing it down to studs and then putting the walls in the rooms where they're supposed to go. So I, I can kind of identify with that. But I was just curious about your experience with that. Yeah. Absolutely. Still all the difference in the world it does. It does so the the the title of your presentation was was the the Tongue of Angels. Right lashon, malachim or halashon. I just don't put the the hot in there for the the tongue 'cause it's there's no reason for it to be there. The tongue of angels.

22:26 So, so I'm going to let you just kind of dive into that and then as I have questions, I'll stop you and we'll we'll elaborate on some of this. Sound good? Yeah. So one of the things that we were talking about last night, it was funny because when we were talking, we talked for what about an hour and 30 minutes, almost maybe a little shy of that. And we, we were laughing, going, oh, we already did a podcast. Should. Have just reported. It just in the pre and it was fantastic dialogue. And So what I try to explain to people all the time is that I'm not here to try to convince anybody of anything. I'm not here to gain followers. I'm not here to do any of that stuff. I have never cared about being at the top of the pile. I just end up at the top of the pile because I'm the guy that knows and with the results.

23:13 So in business, it's the same way. I don't care about the awards, I don't care about the ceremonies, I don't care about the trophies, and none of it matters to me. I care about the end result. I care about the people. That's it. That's always what I'm driving for. And in the process of that, you get those awards and people want to to kind of learn. But at the same time, the objective is to say, no, here's the here's the mechanics of it, here's the mechanism, and here are the measuring metrics. Now let me show you how it works. Now go do it and then check back with me and and I'll clarify whatever I want because your quote, use of the guitar, what you want to build with the Legos and what God wants you to build with the Legos are different.

24:00 So what I'm trying to explain is you need to understand what the Legos are, and you need to understand which ones are pure and which ones aren't, right? The rocky, the rock to build on and the sandy foundation, right? So for the majority of everything I talk about, it's more of understanding the filter of discernment between good and bad, right and wrong, truth and error, so on and so forth. So having said that, when we talk about this, the tongue of angels, we were talking about the language, the purity of the language, right? That's one of the things that's so important. And throughout all of the Scriptures, there's this constant weight on a pure language, right?

24:42 All the way back from Adam all the way through the whole, entire, the Old Testament. I'm, I'm trying to get out of my Hebrew word brain because not everybody, right? If I say Tamak, people go, what you understand what I'm saying. Most people just go, what did you just say? So through the Old Testament, the whole entire thing, and then through the New Testament and then through the Book of Mormon, right, the Pearl of great price doctrine Covenants, so on and so forth. So this throughout the Book of Mormon, it's this constant push on the language constantly right. And so when you read that can. Can you just illustrate where some of those are? So let me give you an example. So I'll pull this up and I'll just, I'll just work off of my phone if that's OK.

25:26 So. Let's let's go into if everybody wants to follow along, let's go into the Book of Mormon and, and whatever app you use, I use a lot of things, but I, when I'm talking to people that are are in the church still, I'm always going to use the the tools that they have and run the narrative that they have. And there's a reason for that. It's because I want to show them that no matter where you're coming from, you end up in the same place if you realize what the filters are, right. So when we talk about this, so Maziah 1, he says verse 2 and it came to pass that he had three sons. He called their names, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, right? And he caused that they should be taught in all the language of his father's.

26:08 We need to also always realize that that doesn't mean it never means genetic fathers, right? We already we should we know that, right? And so taught the language of his Father's, that thereby they might come become men of understanding. And that they might, that's been a wisdom understanding, and they might know concerning the prophecies which have been spoken by the mouth of their fathers, which were delivered them by the hand of the Lord. So automatically they're being taught in the language of the Father. So they understand all these things. So automatically they're supposed to be, right, prophets, seers, revelators, translators, they're supposed to understand this stuff. And then he also taught them concerning the records which were engraving on the plates of brass, saying, my sons, I would that you should remember that were it not for these plates which contain these records and these commandments, we must have suffered in ignorance even at this present time, not knowing the mysteries of God. Back to first Nephi chapter one, one through 3, right? What does he say right in the very beginning when he talks about this, right?

27:11 Nephi sets this whole thing up and he says first Nephi chapter one verse one I Nephi having born and goodly parents, therefore is taught somewhat in the learning of my father right, somewhat. And having seen many afflictions in the course of my days, nevertheless being highly favored. Yeah, having a great knowledge of the goodness and the mysteries of God. Therefore I make a record proceedings of my days. Yeah, make it in the language of my father consistent learning the Jews and the language of the Egyptians. No need to talk about that at the moment. And he says and I know that the record is I make is true and I make it with my own hand, right, that's attached to Moses and I make it according to my knowledge. So what is his knowledge? Well, it's in chapter.

27:54 It's in verse one, having a great knowledge of the goodness and the mysteries of God. So what does Nephi know? He knows the mysteries of God, right? He knows great knowledge. And so in the end, if you look at that and you go, OK, so let's go back to right, let's go back to where we were and say, all right, well, here's Mosiah one. What are they talking about? They're talking about we could read and understand of his mysteries. Well, that so here's the thing. We're setting this whole entire thing up to understand that if otherwise we would have, we would have dwindled in unbelief. We would have been like under our brother in the Lamanites, right?

28:37 Because you look at the Lamanites and everybody kind of thinks they're gang banger goofballs. These guys were heavy Torah observant. They they were more like the Pharisees and said they were right, but not understanding the mysteries. Why? Because what happens when they're they're pounding on Nephi? He goes. Would you ask God? Right. Right. And he goes, they go, well, God doesn't make those such things known to us. So meaning no revelation. Right, but. But the fact that people think that they're idiots, oh, come on. These guys are. These guys know their business, right? That's why they're so livid that Nephi, the younger brother is going to rule over him.

29:22 Oh, you mean like Joseph, right? On and on and on, right? So he says he goes and or even do not believe them when they are taught them because of the traditions of their fathers, which are not correct. He's trying to explain that if all you're doing is reading this, if you look at Pardes right, and you're looking at the first 3, but you're not looking at sod right in part as then you don't understand revelation. You'll get the base meaning, you'll get the implied meaning, you'll get the more parable stretched, attached other meanings, but you'll never get the revelation because the it's the Lego set. I have a situation. Here's the Lego box, Father Master.

30:03 Here's what I built. What do you think? Yeah, that's good, man. That'll work. That's expedient or advantageous to you. OK. But six months later, that same scripture is going to apply differently, but not because you thought about it differently, but because God is showing you what to build with the Master Lego set. And this is the difference, right? It's not about our intellect. And so people he's basically saying if we wouldn't have understood this language, we would have not understood the great knowledge and the mysteries of God right. And that doesn't mean that we the mystery is just that Jesus is coming right or he's the savior of the Messiah. It's so many other things in the end, the mysteries or secrets Amos 37 God do with nothing except you really do a secret to to his servants, the prophets, and we think all that means those guys.

30:56 No, it doesn't why? Because secrets means mystery. Same word. So who can know the mysteries? Alma 12, anybody, if you, if you'll pay the price, right? So he says, and now my son's I would that you should remember to teach them diligently that you may profit thereby keep the commandments on and on and on and many more things. Did King Benjamin teach right? And so you go through that and then you go, OK, let's go, let's go to Book Mormon again. Let's go to Alma 37. And now all of a sudden, right, he says. And now verse 2, I now I command you that you keep a record of these people according as I have done upon the place of Nephi, and keep all these things sacred, which I have kept even as I have kept them, for it is a wise purpose They're kept. How did they keep them?

31:46 They kept them pure. They wrote by their own hand according to their knowledge, which is the same as Nephi's knowledge, which is great knowledge, which is what? Mysteries of the Kingdom of God, right? And these plates of brass which contain these engravings which have the records of the holy scriptures and the genealogy of our forefathers even from the beginning. Now, here's the thing that starts to get muddy, right? People misunderstand, they think genealogy like Mormon genealogy. But here's the thing. And I want to ask people and we'll, we'll, we'll read another scripture that filters all this out and it'll make even more sense. Here's the thing that happens when Nephi got, when Nephi got the brass plates and Lehigh starts to read through them and he sees the genealogy, right? And he's he's excited.

32:32 Oh, look at that. It's Uncle. It's Uncle Bob. Wow. We're related to Bob. What does he care? He doesn't care about the genetic genealogy. What genealogy is he most likely excited about? He's excited about what would be the King's list, the knock list of all of the Sons of Light and their names. Why? Because in Jacob 2 and Jacob one, what does he talk about? Nephi was a great king. So every king thereafter called themselves after his name, Nephi, regardless of what their actual name was, right? That's an Egyptian thing, after the order of the kings, he says.

33:14 So we have to remember that. So he here, here it is that there's a genealogy of that. So he says, and now he goes, that they should be kept and handed down from one generation to another, and be kept and preserved by the hand of the Lord until they should go forth unto every nation, kindred tongue and people, that they shall know of the mysteries contained thereof. There. Behold, if they are kept, they must retain their brightness. They will retain their brightness, Yeah, and also all the plates which do contain that which is holy writ, lashon kodesh, lashon malachim. And so anyway, he goes through that process and he talks about that and he goes on and on and on. And then you go into Moses.

34:00 Sorry to keep reading all these things, hence the Legos. Oh, you're good. So if we go into Moses 6, here's what starts to get more interesting. And God revealed himself, Moses 6 verse 3 unto Seth, and he rebelled, not offered acceptable sacrifice like unto his brother Abel. And which is what sacrifice was the sacrifice that Abel met, that he did, that was acceptable to God? Was it the goat that he sacrificed, or was it the fact that Abel himself was a sacrifice, a Christ type? Symbolically, what's the acceptable sacrifice? Not saying that it's true or not saying that's not a conversation.

34:41 And every time we talk about this stuff, when it comes down to this, the Lord makes it very clear that at the highest level, you were going to go through the exact same things I go through. Doesn't mean you're always going to die. It just means. So, so your your contention is, is that the sacrifice that Abel makes is his life, not the not the goat. Is that am I following you? Yeah. But here's the thing I'm saying now Now. Hold on. Here's where I'm sure. Let me push back on that a little bit, of course, because it nothing here sounds like in this account or the Genesis account sounds like Abel's, like there was a willing sacrifice on Abel's part, right?

35:25 He was, his life was taken, not given. Absolutely. OK, So how how could that be a sacrifice on Abel's part then? So. Here's what'll happen. We'll, as soon as I'm done with this, we'll go into DNC 29 and then you'll see kind of what I'm saying, OK, because we have to remember a the learning of the Jews. We have to remember all the literary styles of what this is written in. And then we have to remember who wrote all of that stuff, right? So he says, and then began these men to call upon the name of the Lord, and Lord bless them, and a book of remembrance was kept in which was recorded in the language of Adam, for it was given unto many is called upon God to write by the spirit of inspiration. That's also in the Doctrine Covenants, right? So when they're writing by their hand, according to their own knowledge, great knowledge, mysteries of the Kingdom, Lashon Malachim, Lashon Kadesh, the Holy Tongue, Holy Writ, on and on and on, They are writing in a format that requires revelation direct from God to understand meaning. The whole.

36:28 Entire Book of Mormon is a legitimate just an entire parable. You have to read it in that format right and he says in the language of Adam, right and verse 6 by them their children were taught to read and write. So how are they taught to read and write by Lashon Malahim. They were taught the tongue of angels. Nephi does the same exact thing to his children, right? He doesn't teach them after the learning of the manner of the Jews, right? He teaches them in plain, but it doesn't mean it's plain. It's it's the kind of plain that we're talking about. He unpacks the concept of all of the mysteries of the Kingdom and he tells them what they mean.

37:09 Same thing when God, when the disciples asked Jesus Master, why do you teach in parables? And what does the Savior say? Because unto you it is given to know the mysteries of the Kingdom of God. Unto them it is not. OK, so let let me ask this and again, forgive me 'cause I'm so yeah this whole thing. Is gang initiation. I wonder what is that? Beat it up back. In back in Nephi, First Nephi, he tells you that the language he learns is the from the Jews and the the Egyptians. Right, right. OK, so he's writing. It that he's writing then that and then he's saying I'm going to write it in this language and then he says what and then I make this with my own hand and I make it according to my knowledge OK, So what it see see when we say so you're.

37:53 Talking. You're talking more about the content of what he's writing and not so much the language. It's not the language. So because the language, be it let's say Hebrew or biblical or Paleo cyanic, right, proto cyanic, Canaanite doesn't make any difference in the end, it'll all end up the same. So the point is, is when you understand that, then you can start unpacking it and then you can start transliterating it. And then you can have a seed that you can plant and ask God. But if you're asking God for, like if you're saying, here's my Lego build and you've used English, you don't even know what you're reading because the words don't mean that. And so when we go back to Moses, he says the book of remembrance called upon God to write by the spirit of inspiration and by them their children were taught to read and write, having a language which was pure and undefiled. Right now this same priesthood which was in the beginning shall be in the end of the world also.

38:53 OK, well, what does that mean? What priesthood? Gotcha. You see where I'm going? Yep. Now this same priesthood which was in the beginning, now Word link it. What's in the beginning? Genesis one in the beginning. Got you. Now what happens? Where is That? Also found John 1 in the beginning, right? Gotcha. Word was God. God was the Word. Nothing. But you see what I'm trying to say? I see. I see where you're going. Yep. So. The thing is, is what I'm telling. So what happens with people will still go. That's horse guy, right?

39:34 Right, Right, right, right, right. OK, the thing that happens is for me, like I said, I'm not here to say this is this. There's you have to, you have to understand and run the fruit. You have to plant the seed, do the deal, grow the tree and the seat. You have to conduct first the test and which we'll, you know, talk about after a little bit when I, you know, we'll talk about a little postcard and stuff like that that I produce when I hand out in lecture, I say, OK, here's all the metrics for Alma 32. And if you don't, you don't check off. All those boxes, then you the seeds not good. So don't don't just go on your feelings. So when you look at that. And he says now this same priesthood which was in the beginning shall be in the end of the world also.

40:16 Why? Because the purity of the language will come back by one who has great power and authority, right? You know that. So now this prophecy out of spoke. So when you go through that stuff, you start to realize very quickly that when we understand what all this comes together, then we go, OK, let's, let's just take a good look at this and see what this all actually really means. Because when I talk about what I tell people all the times, I like to play both sides of the, of the, of the table, right? And the reason why I do that is because I want to run everybody's narrative. So there's people that go, oh, the the Bible is not pure. It's not an actual literal history. OK, that's fine.

41:05 I'll play with that. So what is it? Well, then then poof, gone, right. And the other people go, it's pure history. Yeah. And that's why everybody died from it, right. And then that's why you can't reconcile all the stuff that people do in the name of Jesus, right? Or in the name of God. And, and all things considered, then God is the greatest mass murderer alive that you're right, that's and, and because he can do that by himself, we don't understand what it means with literary devices and the learning of the Jews, right? So when we come down to it, I go to doctor incumbent is 29. So these are all just like quick little filters. So doctor incumbent is 29 back to 34, right?

41:49 So here's what happens. The Lord says, because he's already talked about first spiritually, second, this, and then in the end this, and then it right goes through all of that. But he says in 34 Wherefore verily I say unto you that all things unto me are spiritual, and not at any time have I given unto you a law, Torah, instruction, teaching, word, the Bob commandment, on and on and on which was temporal, neither any man, nor the children of men, neither Adam your father, whom I created. Verse 35 Behold, I gave unto him that he should be an agent unto himself. You get to choose to discern what it means. I mean, it's the first thing they talk about in the temple. I mean, it's the very first thing we're going to send you here.

42:35 So you can learn to discern between good and evil, right and wrong through the air, right? And I, that's why they allow Satan to come down here. And I gave unto him commandment, but no temporal commandment gave I unto him. For my commandments are spiritual. They are not natural nor temporal, neither carnal nor sensual. OK, so let's play with the Legos right? This is my whole point behind the Lego build. When when Oliver is told you, you didn't continue as you started, you got to go back and start studying it out in your mind. Then once you figure out you're right, take it to me and I'll cause your bosom to burn. That's a, that's a whole nother discussion, right 'cause your bosom to burn if it's right.

43:20 If not, you'll have a stupor thought. But you kind of blew it already. So Joseph's already good. So we're going to flip this thing back around. And I tell people all the time, OK, well then if we run the narrative of God dictated to Joseph word to word and then Oliver took over, then why is Oliver having to study anything out, right? That wouldn't even make any sense, right? And he has, and by the way, he has the gift. So having said that will play the narrative when God is saying I've never given a law that is temporal, neither any man nor the children, and neither Adam your father or created. Behold, I gave him to him that he should be an agent himself. You can choose what you think it needs, right? You're going to learn from your own experience, right? And I gave him commandment, but no temporal commandment gave I unto him.

44:14 My commandments are spiritual. They are not natural nor temporal, neither carnal nor sensual. Why add the word sensual? So here's the thing you have to ask yourself. I'm not saying. What I'm telling people is just go study that in your own mind and then go plant it and see if it bears fruit. If it does, great, if it doesn't, great. But if your confirmation bias leads you to where you can't think, well then you're you're doomed anyway, right? So The thing is, is then what does it mean when God commanded Adam to multiply and punish the earth if he gave him no commandment that was natural, temporal, carnal or sensual?

44:55 Well. I, I think there's that that's a question that can be unpacked a lot because I look, one of the things I love about, about the restoration is that for the first time in Christendom, the flesh doesn't have to be an enemy to God, right? Absolutely. Agree. We know that that your, your humanity can be holy in all its in all in, in all aspects, right. And so in, in that, with that in mind, bearing children, I don't think is having children or the act of reproducing, I don't think in and of itself is a fallen thing. I think that's a very holy and it's a holy thing and sacred thing, right.

45:41 Agreed. I could, I could look at that and say, yeah, it wasn't a a a sensual commandment. And and that's all I'm saying, right? The thing is, is to look at it when we when we take every single thing that's been commanded or talked about, and then we think that's all physical and that's what it means, then we start to get in trouble because we we don't understand the concept of the learning of the Jews. We don't understand the literary devices. We don't realize that the first five books of Moses are called the first five books of Moses because they were written by Moses. Oh, interesting.

46:21 By the exact same way that Nephi is writing this record. It's kind of interesting to know that Nephi goes and gets the place of brass, which have the first five books of Moses right before he really starts to, what, make a record, right? Yeah. That's what scribes do, right? There's an understanding. And he was. He was somewhat learned. So now with the plates of brass, what happens? He has the ability to really understand Lashon Malahim. He understands how Moses wrote.

47:05 He understands the whole entire thing. He gets it. Oh, I understand Moses. Is he writing a literal history? Maybe, maybe not. Does it matter? That's the lesson. Well, now, now let let me push back on that a little bit. I shouldn't say push back, but but maybe agree with you a little bit. No, no. You're fine. Absolutely. I I don't. I don't think especially the Genesis account, especially the account of creation is literal, right, Right. I did you ask why is that what I heard? No, no, no. I said you're right. Yeah, I, I. I think we learned that in the temple, right, and especially the old school endowment Brigham well.

47:46 The old, old school, yes. Not new, no, it's it's, it's literal, right? Right. It has been for a long time. You you get into the lecture at the veil and without revealing too much sure you're you're let you're you are taught that that that it was an allegory what Moses gave in in the Genesis. Account, yeah, and I agree. And so when you understand, and this is what I'm saying, I'm not purporting this, I'm explaining things that come out when you unpack the accounts in the Scriptures, the way that I talk about it, it becomes very obvious, right? So what happens when we take all of this stuff so literal, then A, we don't understand the learning of the Jews.

48:31 And so when people can't literally break down all the literary devices that are used, then you can't understand the Scriptures. You can't. It, it's like saying I I'm going to build this whole entire house and all I have is a a Phillips screwdriver. Well, no, you can't. Yeah, but I could hammer things that. No, you can't. Yes, the Crescent wrench is heavy in its metal, but you can't build a house with it. You can't frame walls with it. Right. And this is the thing I find that happens is we we are doing exactly what the children of Israel did, which is, yeah, we don't want to go straight to God. We don't like that. That is not good. That's too much. We want the certainty of being told what to do. And then a lot of times what happens in churches in in, in, in the temple, we talk about this.

49:14 It's right there. Adam gets kicked out, right? He's for lack of better terminology, right? He's removed from the garden. He builds an altar and then he's praying because he wants the further light knowledge. And what ends up happening, Satan comes up to him now in that form, not Lucifer. It took play the narrative and he says, oh, what do you want? He's like, I'm waiting for this further light knowledge. And he goes, oh, you want religion, you want someone to preach to you. And he's like, no, that's not I want I want further light knowledge from God. I don't want religion. I don't want to be preached to, which is the exact same what format of Moses and God and the children of Israel.

49:58 So the same thing. And then they blow it because Ed of Roth, right. All those strangers that come and convince everybody to to make the golden calf and what happens is now they've shown that they can't go and don't want to go straight to God. So Moses becomes the sacrifice for them, gives up his ability to go into the promised land and says these are my people, I love them. So he takes the hit for it and then he goes up and instead of God making tablets or take technically tables right with his hand and inscribing them with his finger, Moses is told to make the tables, bring them up and Moses inscribes everything and then comes back down written by his hand.

50:40 And it's the same thing with Nephi when he keeps telling them you shouldn't have a king. You don't need a king. But if you could, it'd be great if you could have these guys and look at the guys that didn't want to be king. So all I'm saying is when we look at what's going on and we look into the temple, it's not the the all of the stuff that's going on, whether or not in the Old Testament, even in the Book of Mormon, whether it's literal history or not is not what's important because that's not the lesson, right? And so I don't care about evidences. I don't care about any of that because what does it matter? It doesn't do anything for me, right? I don't care. I want the mysteries, I want the tactics, I want the mechanics. I want to understand how things are built, how things are done it the the history of it doesn't make any difference to me. So in that format when we're but you wouldn't. You wouldn't want to peg to something that was untrue though, right?

51:31 I mean, what's that? You wouldn't. Want to peg to something that wasn't untrue, right? No. A. 100% not, no, I agree with you. I'm saying, I'm saying that what happens is, is people will start taking the concepts and go, this is what it means. And you go, yes, but on and on and on and on. Like we talked about the parable of the sheep, which of you, having 100 sheep, having lost one, wouldn't go after it? Right, right. What does that mean? Does it mean your credit's going to be wrecked? You're not going to be able to continue your farm, your status of wealth will go down? Yes, 100% correct. That's the lesson, Yes, at that very, very low level. Is that what that means?

52:16 No, not even close, Right. And so then you say, well, what does it mean to go chase the 10? It means to go and help people and do other yeah, you're right, but what does it really mean? And then you keep going through that now. See, and this is what's interesting, right? And and look, I want to say that the scriptures aren't the only literature in Mormonism that are multi layered, right? Oh, absolutely. I believe the temple liturgy is is Scripture, right? 100% that. And, and look, I can bear testimony of this, right? Yeah. Absolutely you go. Through the temple your first time you're just drinking from a fire hose, right you're just you're just turning that bad boy on you're. On fire trying to trying to handle it? Absolutely, man.

53:05 But as you go throughout life as as your, as you change throughout your life, the temple's going to mean something different to you, just like the scriptures do, right? These are layered things. These aren't things that that that only have one explanation. Well, and. Think about Alma 12. Yeah, and think about what you're saying. Look at Alma 12 when he talks about many are given to know the mysteries of the Kingdom. First of all, you got to know what many means and when you understand what many means and you realize it's attached to Abraham 3 where he says what I looked upon, right? And there were many of the great and noble ones.

53:45 The word many is attached to the great noble ones of the kings and Queens. And when you understand that, then you realize it's given unto many to know. See, when we're just reading that from English, we're like lots of guys could know it, right? No, no, master, Why do you teach them parables? Because it's given unto you to know the mysteries of the Kingdom of God, and unto them it is not right. So this makes people mad. Oh, you're saying it's a exclusive club? Yeah, not my club. It's his club. And Alma 12.

54:25 But they are laid under a strict command to only reveal and share a portion of that word that others based on the diligence and heed which they give it. So the number of people that I get to talk to is basically almost 0. Gotcha because they. Won't do the test. They won't test it past my bosom began to swell. It's. True, yeah, but. You forgot it will be began to enlarge my soul. It begins to enlighten my understanding. Begin it to be delicious and let's see, you're going to say these types of things and it's going to bring forth unto its own likeness and then it's going to expand your understanding.

55:07 You're going to be enlightened. Your mind will expand and right, check, check, check, check, check, check, check, check. Roots and shoots of a seed when it grows. And if you can't sit down and draw a seed out and then start running roots and going this, this, this, this, this, this, this, and it's. You haven't conducted the full experiment to know if the seed is good, and this is how the adversary grabs people. Absolutely. And, and look, this is one of those things that I think is super important to hit on here too, right, is that sometimes I think in Mormonism, we, we sell ourselves short, right?

55:47 Oh yeah, I agree. Living below your privilege, Absolutely. Look. One of those things I've often said it's like going to a really good restaurant that has tremendous steak, but you think you can you know, the, that, that it tops out at the salad bar, right? Yeah, You're, you're, you're missing out on, on what's really the good stuff. I think what? Did you say the other day we were talking about the Bellagio buffet? You may, I think you made a comment. I think it was you that said and yeah. And the kids just want to eat macaroni cheese and tater tots. Was that you or is that a that OK. That was a buddy of mine. And when he said that, I went, that's exactly what it's like. Yeah. You got the whole Balaji. You got the greatest food in any place. And your and the kids are like macaroni and cheese and tater tots and hot dogs.

56:33 You're like, we just paid $30.00 for this. You have food from every nation and the and the best chefs and all you want is macaroni and cheese. Anyway, to your point, yeah, I agree. We're living under our as one of the conferences, one of the brethren that said we're living under our privilege. And I agree with that, but for me, it's to teach the mechanic. I'm going to show you how to build it. Now you go, you go do and build whatever God wants you to build, because every bit of that's going to be different. And so when I talk about that stuff, you have to look at the filter and go, OK, now if we put a filter over everything, DNC 293435, how does that change everything?

57:18 Because that is another version of the learning of the Jews, right? These things are all prophecy. These things are all revelation. These things are all right. You have to look beyond that and understand what the seed is. And then when you plant it, all of those things that we read about that are so amazing and miraculous, they actually all come true, right? But like you said, we're living under the under our ability to unpack because we want somebody to tell us what it is. And the reality is it is scary to walk out in the void. Nobody wants to do that. We have jobs and and things like that and nobody wants to go, hey, Matthew 19, that guy was the prototype for anybody who could be the most righteous that there was.

57:59 And the Lord said, go sell all you have and give to the poor and then come follow me because that's all you lack. And then the young man went away sorrowful. Right. Because he had much and then everybody, everybody goes, yeah. See. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He's faithless. And I'm like. Dude, you're not even as good as he is before he asked the question. Right. Yeah, get off, man. It's the whole mentality of, of, yeah, see Peter, he was a faithless turd and, and disobeyed and turned the Lord in and I was like, this is literally not what that means. You got to see, you got one of the things that happens having when, when you, when you write songs and you're on writing teams and when you write marketing, advertising and you're doing things and you, it's easy to say, here's an ad and I've got 5 minutes worth the script to explain my story with massive impact. And then the guy goes, I need you to do it in 30 seconds. I need 3 seconds buffer in the front and three seconds buffer at the end for the music.

59:01 You go, wait a minute. That's, that's 23 seconds to tell people this message. Yeah, yeah, go. That's the problem. People don't know how to edit and stay and have impact. They can't take 5 pages and reduce it to 1/2 a page and keep the impact. The people that can do that are actual wordsmiths, right? And so when you understand when Moroni and Mormon 9 is going, if we would have had sufficient room, we would have written in what Hebrew? Flat out. Hebrew block Hebrew, but we don't. So we've made some adjustments. And then comes the argument of reformed Egyptian. Right.

59:42 People don't know what that actually means. They guess at it. But then you go, OK, the that's fine. But you're you're misunderstanding certain things. And one of them is nobody knows our language. Yeah. Why? Because what is their language? Nachon Malachim. It's the tongue of angels. It's right there in Second Nephi 32. Second Nephi 31, Right? It's all sitting right there. And that's that's the point right behind all of this stuff. Is that in 31 when it, when he tells you, when you've gotten, you've entered into the door, you've entered into the gate, right? You've done all these things, baptism by water and then cometh the remission of your sins by fire and the Holy Ghost. So does the baptism remove your sins? That's the baptism of fire.

1:00:28 That's a big, you know, issue, right, that we don't understand, because if we'd understood it, then we'd go, OK, then. Then why? When the Savior came in 3511, He shows up. If we play the historical narrative, everybody's dead, right? Except for 2500 people at the Bountiful Temple, right? So the Lord shows up. Hey, everybody, it's me, right? Samuel was right. Applaud to you. You made it. And then what's the first thing he does? He gives them the authority and the power to baptize, and he baptizes everybody. So how were these people so righteous that they could be there physically to see the coming of Jesus Christ and they hadn't been baptized? Interesting.

1:01:22 You mean people I've asked that question? Boom. Why? Because the baptism of John and the baptism by which Jesus is baptized, not the same baptism, right? The baptism what the Lord is baptized with. You will be baptized with the baptism I'm baptized with. He told the disciples. You will drink from the cup. That baptism is mem, the 13th letter of the olive bed, which means chaos, tsunami, trial by water. Interesting. That's what you will be baptized with. You will walk his path. You will suffer even as he suffered. You will pick up his cross. You will do all of those things.

1:02:03 You will become a savior type, right? That's your not everybody's job. Not everybody's job. Those who are the great and noble ones, right? You're interesting, those guys. So when you look at this and it says when you're in the straight gate, right, you go through all these things and then what happens? He says in there that once you've done those things, I behold, my beloved brethren, that came a voice. Thus came the voice of the Son unto me. The Savior is saying to him in 2nd 31, after you've repented of your sins and witness unto the Father that you're willing to keep my commandments by the baptism of water.

1:02:48 That's what the first baptism is, right? I'm going to keep the commandments right? As many times you repent, boom. But what happens after you get up farther down the road and you blow it? He says the chances you can come back, but the chances are so nil. Why? Because you've sinned against the Holy Ghost. You've had the baptism of fire. See, that's Judas. Judas knew, right? Right. He knew. So that's why when he betrayed the Lord, there's no forgiveness for him in the life to come, in this life of the life to come. So in the end, what's the point of living? Commit suicide? He was done. Why? Because he had the baptism of fire. He knew the mysteries of the Kingdom of God.

1:03:28 He spoke, and he was technically higher educated in the system than anybody. So you look at this and it says you're baptism by water, have received the baptism of fire, and the Holy Ghost can speak with a new tongue. Yeah, even with the tongue of angels. And after this should deny me, it would have been better for you that you had not known me. Now we go to verse 32 or chapter 32. And now behold, my brethren, verse one. I suppose that you ponder somewhat in your hearts, concerning which you should do after you've entered in, by the way. But behold, why do you ponder these things in your hearts? Do you not remember that I said unto you that after you'd received the Holy Ghost you could speak with the tongue of angels? And now how could you speak with the tongue of angels, save it were by the Holy Ghost?

1:04:14 Who's he talking to? Us. Yeah. Yeah, so. So who gets to speak with the tongue of angels, Dave? All of us, if we want to. Well, it will pay the price, boy. There is a lot to unpack there and some that quite frankly we're we're not going to unpack because no. We can't. We don't have time. Yeah. Well, that and it, there's some stuff in there that's just too sacred to discuss 'cause like 100% I think, I think there's some allusions there to some higher ordinances that that are, that are super important, right? You're you're. Absolutely correct, but. Nonetheless, right. And and as you're talking about this, the thing, the thing that keeps coming back, right? You want to speak with that tongue of angels. And I think so often people think that that's a language, right?

1:05:00 Well, it is kind of, but I think it's more about revelation. It is. Revelation right 100%. Because you know, if we, if we look back in John, right, or, or first, let's start here. When, when Jesus asks Peter, you know who, who, who you think I am? And he says, you know, well, you're, you're you're the Savior Christ, Son of God, you're the Christ, right. And he says, blessed art thou, Simon Barjona, for flesh and blood has not revealed it unto thee, but your Father, which is in heaven. Yeah, right there. So that that's the mechanism that is Revelation, right.

1:05:40 And and so as we look at that and then and then you you extrapolate that out. What does Jesus end up talking, saying here? This is life eternal to know Jesus Christ and and true and living. God. The the true and living God. Excuse me, in Jesus Christ, whom he has sent. I butchered that one. We all know it, you're good, but. But there is something here in the knowledge and the revelation, and I think that's what you're driving at, right? Well cuz think about what you said. You said blessed art thou Peter, right? Simon Barjona, What happens right after that? So now God knows, he knows, he knows. So what happens?

1:06:26 Name change, right? It's. Really reminiscent again. Like we were talking about ordinances, name change. So here's what happens right in second by 32 verse 3. Angels speak by the power of the Holy Ghost, wherefore they speak the words of Christ. Wherefore I said unto you, feast upon the words of Christ. For behold, the words of Christ will tell you all things that you should do. Now that's the first. So first of all, if you don't speak the tongue of angels, you don't understand the words of Christ. OK, that's the first thing. Because it's that. And where do we get all things? That's DNC 84, right? Right. That's the promise of the what? The obtaining of both priesthoods.

1:07:07 OK, now wherefore now after I've spoken these words, if you cannot understand them, it will because be because you ask not neither do you knock. Wherefore you are not brought into the light, but must perish in the dark. Doctrine and Covenants. You are walking in the darkness at noonday verse 5 For behold, again I say unto you, that if you will enter in by the way, and receive the Holy Ghost, it will show unto you. So tell and show all things that you should do. Behold, this is the doctrine of Christ, and there will be no doctrine, no more doctrine given, until after He shall manifest himself unto you in the flesh. Who there's those?

1:07:48 Ordinances talking about what's going to happen he's going to manifest himself unto you in the flesh and when he shall manifest himself unto you in the flesh, the things which he shall say unto you, ye shall observe to do you are in a different church. OK now verse 7 and I Nephi cannot say more. That's the end of the mysteries right, right. He's already talked too much. The spirit stoppeth my utterance. Does anybody of, of us who understand this know what it's like for the Lord to go, hey buddy, knock it off. Shut up. And then let me let me finish this real quick and then I'm going to right and I'm left to mourn because of the unbelief in the wickedness and the ignorance and the stiff neckedness of men.

1:08:29 For they will not search knowledge nor understand great knowledge when it is given unto them in plainness, even as plain as where it should be. So that's all I wanted to say in that is because now you come back to the knowledge versus what great knowledge, which is revelation, the tongue of angels. And there has to be a mechanism to unpack that so you can study it and with a seed is and then plant it and have God reveal it to you. You know that that's fascinating on, on, on another level, right, Which is when, when I talk to folks who are who are really struggling in, in their scripture study. Yeah. I get the same answer a lot, which is it's just boring, right?

1:09:12 I just, I start reading and then I get lost in my mind starts to wander. Wander, excuse me. And look, just like going to the temple takes revelation, right? You want to get the full effect of of the temple endowment you have and all the ordinances you have to be in a revelatory state of mind. Absolutely the. Same applies, I believe, to the scriptures, right? Absolutely. As. As you're a young follower of Christ, the base reading will be enough to get you on that journey. But if you want the Scriptures to continue to be relevant, you need the spirit of revelation to discern the things which you need to discern right, to extract that greater knowledge that's there that often is just left hidden under the surface.

1:10:04 Yeah, I I agree. That's part of the thing that happens. I'm just grabbing some papers here. Part of the thing that happens. And what you're saying is for me, what I'm trying to show people all the time is, is what happens when we show you the mechanics of it and then show you the metrics, the measuring metrics and the mechanisms. Once they understand that, all of a sudden they can completely. I'm not going to say shortcut, but they can bypass the wandering around in unknown paths. Right.

1:10:47 Because the problem is, is it's it's I used to say this all the time. People would always say to me when they would, they say when they go to seminars or listen, if I could just get one little nugget, it's worth my time. And I would have say, not me. Why I don't have time to get one nugget. I don't have time to spend hours for one little thing. That's a that's a poverty mentality when it comes to knowledge. I want to drop gold the whole time. I want to talk to somebody who can just give me the give me the process. And so when I do this stuff, the objective is to give them the process, for example, right.

1:11:27 You want to know one of the things I, I love, I loved about talking to you is, and I, and I'm saying this in an, in the, the most complimentary way I can say it. I really appreciate and love the fact of your dedication to the temple and what's taught there. Because as it's not most people, they love it. But they don't love it, right? They don't go in there. I've said this forever, and people would look at me kind of crazy and I'd go, listen, here's the thing. If someone grows up in a house where their parents are doctors or lawyers, it's so easy for those children, if they want to, to become doctors and lawyers because it doesn't require really faith for them.

1:12:12 They grew up. Yeah, They grew up with that understanding. And I said, here's it at a base level. At a base level, This is why you go to the temple all the time because you get to go to work with dad. What does God do? Create worlds without number, bring it past the inward town, eternal life of man. You get to see what he does every second of every day. Not that there's a day for him, but right to say with his, whatever it is, eternities, this is what he's doing. You. Get to go there with Dad every day. If you're not, this is a conversation that people, they don't have it this way. You go to the temple because you're there watching Dad do what Dad does.

1:12:59 And that's how you become a creator. The more you go, you get to be in a point where you're like, all of a sudden your faith to create. This is where I learned all of this stuff. Not just this, but when I got an opportunity as a missionary and went through a process of changing 32 different attributes in my character in 30 days, I changed them all through a process I call the genesis point. And in that, in about a week into that process, which took me about 6 hours a day in a, in a during, in about the week into that process, I ended up being able to see it, the entire root structure of all knowledge, all of it. I saw all of it. And I got to walk on it for 30 days and I could. And it was so pervasive that everywhere I walked, anything I saw, I knew how that connected to everything. When I was when I came home and I became a consultant, I became literally the best in the world at what I did. The reason why is because I knew how everything connected to everything.

1:14:01 I knew how to solve everything because I knew how to get from there to here and what connected to there was obvious. So when you look at that stuff, all of that stuff happens because of the temple. So when you look at like this, this is this is the olive, right? This is the first letter of the of the olive, but the Hebrew olive. But now this is a more modern stylized version. It doesn't matter. And because I don't have a pen and paper, so I don't I won't draw it out. But if that's that's what we're looking at. And so when you see that you go, what does that stand for? Well, it's, it's, it's ordinal numbers, number one. In the end, it doesn't make really any sound. So it's, it's a glottal stop. So it would be more of like a or something like that.

1:14:44 But it's, it's essentially silent. And So what happens is when you understand that, you understand it's, it's meaning numerically. It stands for God the Father. It stands for oneness, unity, togetherness, all of those types of things. So when you look at that and you go, OK, Hebrew letters are made-up of, first of all, they have names, olive. So the word olive has letters because you have to now spell that out. So you do have olive. You have a olive, and then you have L, right, which is lamid. So you break that down. But even this letter is made-up of other letters. The center letter is above. That's the six letter of the olive bet. What does that stand for?

1:15:29 That stands for the, the the iron nail, the hook, the thing that combines, binds things together, right? That's what it means. And then you have these two nubs. Those are yods. Yod is the 10th letter of the Hebrew Oliphant. It stands for the hand and the arm to to do a great and mighty work. So now when we think about that, we go, OK, so now we draw a line. In the center we have heaven and we have earth. We have God reaching down into what earth or through into earth. We have us reaching into heaven. And the center we have what is represented by the nail of the covenant or the Savior. What is that OK?

1:16:17 All right, so so with, where do you find? That. Right. So let me ask you this question that that letter right there. Would that have been in Paleo Hebrew as well? It would have been an ox. It would have been what, an ox? OK, so. So watch. So where do we find this? The center, the veil, right? God's right. So without going through any of that, we understand anybody who knows knows what I'm saying. This is you with the veil. It's the first letter of the It's togetherness in unity with God the Father through The Who, the Son, the. Son. Yeah, right. And so in the end, it's also the ox. What is the ox?

1:17:02 Essentially it's a circumcised bull, takes all the strength is there, but takes it so it can be used in the work. OK, so the, the only reason I asked that question and, and help me understand here, 'cause I, I, I there, there's something here and I'm, I must not be understanding, but it's my understanding that Lehigh would have used Paleo Hebrew with the Book of Mormon, right? That would have been part of that reformed Egyptian let. Let's say that that was the case. We can play, we can play any narrative that anybody wants to throw and. I and I get that just from from archaeologists and that, you know, the that 600 BC would have been the the where paleo Hebrew was used a lot. So can't, can can we take that olive that you just showed me and apply that to the Book of Mormon and still get the same answer 100?

1:17:56 Percent if he's. Using a different a different style. Does that make sense? Yeah, absolutely. So let's say we go to the ox, right? So now the ox is back then the biggest primary beast of burden, fair and right. So we've go to Job 12. It's like, oh, if you want to know, speak to the beasts, speak to the this, talk to these guys. Those aren't animals, they're people, right? So what is the ox? The ox is a essentially right, a neutered bull. Sure, because we're become right. What are we doing? We're essentially circumcising it, right? In essence, the same concept. So that way it's not, it doesn't run amok, it's not aggressive, it doesn't lose any of its strength, so it can be used in the work.

1:18:41 So when you look at that, what are we saying? We're coming to God the Father through the Savior, through a circumcised heart. OK all. Appetites and passions, all that stuff bounds that God says, right? You see what I'm saying? And now all of a sudden we can be used in the work. Now we are a creature that God can use. And so and then you go back to this and it has in the end, it's the same. It's in the end, it's the same. It ends up the same place. And so that's why when you see it that way, then all of a sudden circumcision takes on a whole different concept, right? Because it is attached to the the first, the first letter and then the last Pab 22 is the sign of the covenant. And in the end you realize that the first and the last also becomes in Hebrew, it becomes the the word ET or AT which means and essential.

1:19:44 So that's the whole concept that I talk about when, when you build things and you understand that, you realize when the Lord in Genesis is saying, as he reads through it, he's and this and that and this and that, and it seems like he's repeating it. What is he doing? He's taking the 1st and the last and he's covenanting and he's binding these concepts together. Interesting. So that's the those are the things and symbolically we could you could say if you wanted those stones that were never using with mortar because they were covenanted and bounded or quote married together. Right. And, and by the way, that's, that's the one of the things about 32 when I talk about 32, I had a really crazy experience for years and years and years.

1:20:29 And then I don't know why I had to unpack all of this stuff in Mormonism and, and do it this exact same way. And so I was sitting there and I go, I was asking in prayer. I'm like, Hey, listen, master, can I, can I ask a question? I said, here's the thing. And I'm, I'm just tainting in normal, you know, normal conversation. What what is going on with all these businesses for all this time that they get to a certain point and also they seem like they blow up. What why does that happen? Because I was at a very different level of understanding and had a lot of different interesting experiences, which we don't write. This podcast is not a place for that. That's private conversation. And and the Lord explains this to me because I already understood it. So I'm in the temple and I all of a sudden I'm realizing the concept of ET and the concept of that. And I'm, I'm realizing, oh, that's all the binding language. So when we're in the temple and we're watching all that come together, I, you're watching God actually create the mechanics of it.

1:21:28 I create this and pop all of top, all of top, first and last, first and last, alpha, Omega, bound together, married together. Then you go into DNZ 32132 and it talks about that concept and you go, well, any contract that we enter into and it goes the whole list, right? It's not entered into this kind of format, right? Right, is null. And void when the earth is over. But but it's not just that if it's null and if it's not going to have any power. Here's the other thing it does.

1:22:08 It's not protected from what corruption in the. World. So why are we entering into business contracts with each other and doing things that are not done by that same authority and the point behind it with that going through the Hebrew language is there to each other. It's if I break this covenant with you may happen to me what we did to this goat and then the other person does the same. Now when we go back to the old concepts in the temple, the older ones where we have those types of right, right movements without going through them, they're all the same things as the sacrificial process of sacrificing a goat and cutting that it means to cut to cut a covenant.

1:22:59 So. That is, yeah. No, I, I remember. That's so. That's so significant to understand that and then we take it out instead of explaining it. And then what happens is we lose the concept of the seriousness of these covenants. It doesn't mean that Nelson's going to come by and go, hey, you broke a covenant, get the knife. It's not what it means it that's that's for God. But it's no different than what happens in secondary 31 when he says, if you had these things and you depart from them, what will happen? It will be better for you that you never knew me, right? And so The thing is, is that look at what it talks about in in Alma.

1:23:44 What is it, 42 or 24, where it's talking about that the whole concept behind the law, that if someone knows the law. Right then they. Have to know the whole law because if they don't know the whole law, then they can't be what? They can't be judged right because they don't know the consequence. They don't know the law and then it talks about it, he says. If a man knew that there was no punishment for murder, what would stop him from murdering? Right. So here's the problem. That's murdering. Now let's go all the way down the list of crap that people do. We don't know the consequence. And here's what happens in the church. We've eliminated all of that. Oh, we're so sorry. You've suffered enough for that horrible thing that you did. Two years has gone by, let alone you never wanted to repent. So we're just going to.

1:24:34 It's enough time. It's gone by. You suffer enough, Go ahead. That's literally not what repentance is. And it doesn't mean you want people to suffer. You didn't repent. You waited the time out until people like, yeah, what do we say? Yeah. What do we do? Right. We don't know how to that's that's not what that means. And why? Because people don't know that there's a consequence. Right, because we. Don't the bishops who are supposed to do that don't illustrate that to people? And we don't teach it. We're just like, it's all good. Oh, you mean God will beat us with a few stripes, right? Right. Yeah, yeah, 100% it's. Literally what it is and, and they're getting away with the breaking covenants and, and when you watch the stuff that goes on in their life, what we can't say is that's because you broke your temple covenant, right?

1:25:27 We're making people make covenants. We're making people make covenants that they shouldn't be making, right? And this is the thing I talk about with baptism, right? If you look at baptism and you go into, you go into Moroni 6. I always find Moroni funny. But go ahead, hang. Tight real quick while you're looking at I do have a question. You said we're we're having people make covenants that they shouldn't be making. Are are you talking from an aspect of they're they're maybe not spiritually mature enough yet to make that covenant? I'm a 40. 2 They don't know the law, they don't know the consequence of it 10/4. OK. So and and so we no, it's. It's not you. You weren't saying there was something wrong with the covenant. It's no, no, no.

1:26:08 We're we're, we're getting people, we're trying to we're we're think about the kids. Like if you look at parents who I want my kid to be successful, you can't get a you can't get your license until you become an Eagle Scout. You can't. We're we're pushing, we're driving people through the process. OK. And this is what I love about I love so much. I love the Book of Mormon like beyond belief, but I also love the the NOC. I love the Pentateuch. I love all of it because to me it's all the exact same thing because I know the Hebrew, right? I know the paleo Hebrew, I know the protophyneic Canaanite, I know all of it. So, and now we speak concerning baptism, where I 6. Behold, elders, priests, and teachers were baptized, and they were not baptized, save they brought forth fruit, meat, and that they were worthy of baptism.

1:26:59 Hey man, I thought we got baptized to, for, to, to be, to be cleanse of sin. No man, neither did they receive any unto baptism, save they came forth with a broken heart and contrite spirit, and witnessed unto the church that they were truly repented of all their sins. And none were received unto baptism, save they took upon them the name of Christ, having determination to serve Him to the end. And and after they had been received unto baptism, they were wrought upon and cleansed by the power of the Holy Ghost. The reason why this doesn't happen to people, which is pretty much nobody, is because you are not repentant of your sins before you enter the water.

1:27:44 We do. It all day long. That's right. Here we've just strayed from all of the stuff that we that Joseph gave us. And I agree with you. Or after a while, Joseph went, yeah. This. Isn't going so well. Well, they don't. They don't actually want this anymore. Hence the famous If you knew what I knew, you'd seek my life. Right. You know, they're, they're you, you kind of touched on something that that always drove me nuts when when I saw it, whether that was in the LDS church or otherwise. We tend to want and and I believe it's from a good place. I really do. I don't, I don't think it's anything nefarious.

1:28:26 I agree. It's not. It's not malintent. I would I. I think it, I think it comes from, I think it's actually an outgrowth of something very positive. Like when Lehigh went and took that fruit, when he had his vision, what was the first thing he wanted to do? He wants his family to take partake, right? And I think sometimes with, with some of our newer converts, we get so excited for them, right, that we're like you, you got to catch up. We got to catch them up to where I'm at because this guy's really good. And I, I love this man. And and and so it comes from a good place, but we do them a disservice. Yes, I agree with you if. If if we don't let them come along in their own time. And and man, it's the the reality is it's scary as death and and so we filtered God through our own stupid selves. Can you make a family?

1:29:18 No. OK, then if you can't make that, you're not that you're not that great. That's and that's how I look at it. I look at him like because I remember all the time in in in conversations and in prayer always saying, Yep, I know can't make a family. I know where I'm at. I get it right. All the great miracles and all the things that have happened and experienced in my life that the Lord has this allowed me to participate in. I'm not dumb. I know I can't make a family. I can ask the Lord to park the clouds and he'll do it, but I can't make a family, right? I cannot add 1 cubit to my statue right in the And you know this. The more that relationship becomes a certain way, the more you really know that you are literally nothing, Hugh.

1:30:06 That is such a great point. The the closer I get to the savior, the more his light illuminates all of my flaws, right? It, it is a process of, of, of purging the, the dross from ourselves. And, and the closer you get to the Savior's light, the more it's illuminated. How many, how many sharp edges still have to be rounded off? Yeah. I remember one time I was sitting there, I was watching conference and, and, and you know, I have my own things, you know, where stuff like that, I don't listen to half of it. And sometimes I do. And because I've watched, I've watched the shift and but at this one time, it's a couple years back, I'm sitting there and, and Nelson was giving a talk and it was an intro talk and, and he was talking about how he got a front row seat to watch the new right remodeling of Salt Lake Temple. And he was on the wiring and the this and then all of a sudden he brings up the fountain and then this leaky fountain and they're tearing it out.

1:31:08 And then all of a sudden it wasn't him talking anymore. He was completely different. And so as I'm going through this, in the end, he starts talking about debris. And so at the end of the talk, here's what happens. This is what I hear. Clean out the debris, prepare for a call. I was like, this is awesome, right? Because I, I've been called to be a mission president when I was 37 years of age. And without going through that whole story, I was never able to serve, not on any accord of my own, but because my then wife went off the rails and, and, and got a divorce and I was raising six children of my own. And of course, back then, anybody's ever been a divorce. You're a pariah in the church.

1:31:50 You're never going to do a single thing. You won't hold a calling never in your life. And anyway in that format. So that's what happened, but I kind of run it up the flagpole. And so and so when I said I heard that, I was like, wow, that's. And so I was so excited because some of the things that had happened that I'd experienced for the longest time, I thought, oh, there's going to be some cool stuff coming. And then of course, the more that that went on, I leaned into that. And then I get more and more stuff and more and more stuff and understand what debris is. And then it leads me to 1st Nephi 12 and you know what? So I'm sitting there and I'll go to sleep and prayers and reading and then, and then I have a little trick and I'll just share this because I've taught it to other people and, and those that can do it, it works really well. I said, you go to sleep in that format. You want questions.

1:32:40 So when you're in your final prayer, you ask the Lord certain things. And then I said, then, then take a big thing of water, right? Dump it down your throat because what will happen two years later? You've got to wake up and go to the bathroom. But if you're if, if you have reached a point where the Lord will actually communicate with you when you ask, right, what'll happen is, is you'll wake up with scriptures on your lips out of nowhere and whole entire ideas, right? And then you go and you spend, you know, you spend half an hour little bang it out and then and then you go back to sleep and you're like, OK, you go through your process again. You drink more water. This happens 3 * a night. By the time you wake up, it's like kaboom and you got a full, a fully cooked thing. And so and then see, and then you go plant it and you see what happens to it.

1:33:28 But the point is, is that when I was doing that, it led me to 1st Nephi 11:00 and 12:00. And I started going right, because in first Nephi 11, the Lord in Nephi is going through the process. The spirit of the Lord is showing him all of these things, right? And he's like, oh, this is the tree of life and this is the river and it right, It all symbolizes the love of God, right? And you're like, yeah, that's fantastic. And then all of a sudden you go to 1st D512 and you go, well, that's different. And so he goes through the same thing. I bear witness. Twelve others. I saw the right, the 4th generations pass away. And then he says, an Angel spoken to me saying, behold, the fountain of filthy water which thy father saw.

1:34:11 Yeah, even the river which he spake and the depths there over the depths of hell. And you're like, wait a minute, what changed? What changed? The same exact thing, the same river that led by the tree, that everything that was the love of God. Now flip the page. I used to say this all the time. People go, you can't just flip the page. I'm like, guys, go back to the 1830 edition of the Book of Mormon, and when you read that, 111 is on this side, and when you flip it over, 12 is on that side, literally flipping the page, right? Which I find very intriguing because I usually read out of the 1830 edition. And so in the end, Dave, what changed?

1:34:55 Why now is the love of God. Why now is the love of God? The depths thereof are the depths of hell. That's not even a conversation anybody even talks about, right? So you have that and I went, well, that's interesting. Then I started going and moving on and going through stuff. And so I'm just saying all of these things started to come together. And so there were things like that and all of this stuff came up because it came from that. And then it was funny. I've been on this journey for about four, 5-6, maybe seven months, I think at the time. And one of my very close buddies and whose solid is solid can be and he goes, he goes, that I don't know how to tell you this.

1:35:39 And I go and just bring it on, man, hit me with a hammer. I'm good with it. And he goes, my wife are on our 4 hour trip to our folks house and he goes, I have listened to that talk, which it's only 7 minutes long. He goes, I've listened to that thing 8 times and then we read it every time he goes Nelson never says clean out the debris, prepare for a call. And I was like, but I've had other experiences that have been very like that, that have dictated many things in my life that were significant and none of this stuff bore bad fruit. It was all amazing. And so you attach that to the concept of the no good fruit in Jacob 5 and Isaiah 55, not 55, but five.

1:36:26 And then you start going through that. And when you start explaining that to people, there's all these scriptures that are, that are our day and our time right now that nobody wants to pay attention to. And then you have to understand it in the Hebrew, the way I'm talking about it, lashon malachim, because then you can understand the mechanics of what that means. And when you talk to people in this format and you teach them how this works, then all of a sudden what happens is they can clip themselves and the Lord can do the work. You just teeing it up. But if they're not willing, if they're not even willing, and I say this all the time, so you, you, your job, if I understand correctly, in churches, your job is to write Gentiles, kings and Queens. That wouldn't be us, right? Joseph talked about it in the Doctrine Covenants. We are the Gentiles that the Book of Mormon speaks up. So that being said, if we're going to go gather the House of Israel and we're going to go right, restore the Jews and do all these things, then why do you have a problem with the Jews and Hebrew theologically?

1:37:24 Because they do right When, when and I and when I talk to be, I've talked to literally 10's and 10's and 10s of thousands of people. And even the, the instructors that are at conferences or things like that, when you bring the stuff up, they just kind of look at you like, what, what are you talking about? And you just kind of go, guys, you're, you're, how do you talk to somebody when you don't even understand what it is that they that they understand? And if you understood that it's so easy to talk to them. And then all of a sudden these things start to merge like they should. And you realize literally the Old Testament and the Book of Mormon are seamless, but it's in the words. You have to understand the words. Once you understand the words, how you break this down as you go, hey, I'm reading the Book of Mormon. You go, OK, let's find that word in the Old Testament in a similar type of scripture.

1:38:20 Now go break it. Go break it down. And then all of a sudden you take all the live words in those passages and you unpack them all. And then once you do that, it changes the way that whole entire thing reads. And then all of a sudden the Lord can tell you how it works and you can you now have an actual seed that you can plant and it makes all the difference in the world, right? And that's what I tell guys like Genesis. You look at Genesis and the temple and we've changed so much of that because of feminism, because of all these types of things, because people are mad. I don't want to obey my husband. Why do I have what do you rule over me? And I go is literally not what that means. Why learning of the juice.

1:39:05 Moses wrote all of it in the same way that Nephi wrote all of it with the holy tongue. Knowing that you can only understand what does the temple say, right? The the the endowment was given by revelation, therefore can only be understood by revelation. Then why are we not able to? Why are we told by the guys at the top we can't receive revelation that only they can? You know that that is so vitally important to understand, right? And and follow, follow, follow me here on this first. Yeah, absolutely. Right now there there is for whatever reason a big push that they want to change that ordinance, right. And I'm like, I would be very careful, very careful, because you might take something out that you feel is problematic right now, but given a little bit of time in Revelation, you're going to really want it well. That's, yeah, I agree with you 100%. And so we start changing temple covenants and ordinances that Joseph revealed through God, and we just start changing them, and nobody even knows what it means.

1:40:24 Why would you change it? If you don't know what it means? You're just unilaterally changing it. You don't have the qualifications to change it. Yeah, let let me, let me see. Those are big, big. Chunks, sure. Sure, let, but but this I think is, I think it's leading to this point here And and correct me if I'm wrong, I do not want to put words in your mouth, but I also that I'm understanding correctly and the audience is going to understand correctly here. You're not saying that. You're not saying that that our understanding is necessarily wrong or when we're it's not. It's not wrong that that that.

1:41:12 The baseline understanding isn't wrong, but that there's more depth and symbology there than what we're picking up, so it can be both literal and figurative, Yes. And yes, all. All at the same time 100%. Is that a an accurate way of of yes? Because isn't that the concept of the parable? Go back to the sheep when the Lord's saying that everybody there who has sheep goes Man, I wish I had 100 sheep. Holy crap, that'd be I. I got 8. If I could get to 100 sheep I'd be killing it. And the guy with 100 sheep goes, yeah, I remember when I lost the sheep dude, that screwed me up. Yeah. When another guy with a 200 a hundred sheep's gone, dude, I will smack you with a stick if you try to take my sheep.

1:41:58 I've got the greatest fences because I know what that means to me. And now the Lord can talk to them, right? Because they get the concept, because he says, see, that's what I'm doing. I will not lose 1 of those that the Father has given me, not one. I. Will walk away from all of this stuff to go get that guy. I get it. And, and now they get it right. And So what happens is, and by the way, that's not even, that's not even the meaning of the parable. That's the base basic Pashat. That's the first level of it. If people aren't getting that and applying that, they are literally the seed that fell on the rock or fell by the wayside with the birds picked up and ate right?

1:42:48 If they are in the shallow ground, then they are those where the seed is planted and I'm a 32, but they don't go through the whole entire metrics. And if they don't go through the whole entire metrics of what makes that work, then it shoots up, right? Oh, I felt the burning in my bosom. Oh my gosh, it's not the burning, but technically my bosom began to swell. Well, what happens is that poop, it shoots up, but as soon as the sun comes, the heat, what happens on, right? Because testimony is not strong. Then there's those that fell on thorny ground where the cares, the word choke. And I know people like that, right? They can't even they're so intelligent, but they can't learn. I got a baseball game. Oh, I got to do this.

1:43:29 Oh my gosh, all this. Anyway, dude, every conversation I have with you is you have all this stuff, right? You, you got to knock it off. And then there's those that are right, planted in good soil. And from there comes some 30, some 60, some one hundredfold, right? It's called equivalence of form. Right. I get it. I get. So it's so. Yeah. So you're not taking. None of them are wrong, just. Don't take crap out when you don't know, right? Right. And so kind of the overall thing you're trying to to drive home here is that what what you're basically trying to teach people is how to extract, extract more meaning, right than than just the literal interpretation thereof, right? Because that's what creates the growth. Gotcha, right.

1:44:20 That's the whole point. If we're here to understand and be kings and Queens and priests and right priestesses and all that kind of stuff, if we don't speak the tongue of angels, we don't, we don't get that well. And see that that opens up something else here too, right? Which is that could again, there's the literal meaning which which is true, right? But as we start looking at it's, you know, looking at it a little more closely and we draw out a few more things. Would I draw out of something at one particular time may not be what you draw out at that particular time. And both are useful to eat, you know, to one another one. 100% based. There so it's not Even so much about finding quote the right answer, but finding drawing out whatever meaning you can from. It's the for me.

1:45:16 It's the mechanism and the mechanics and the measuring metrics. That's. What it is my job is to teach that that way people can actually keep extrapolating right until then there. What happens when you go to church is people will go. I know what that means. And they're collecting it like Easter eggs. And you're like, yeah, and you ate the candy out of them. And now you're using this goofy pink, purple, yellow, blue shell plastic. It means nothing. And then you put them on your wall and you're like, oh, I know the doctrine. And then I just go, yeah, no. Because you know a piece of the doctrine you. Know you know the base, base, base level and you don't know Sod.

1:45:57 And Sod means secrets and mysteries. So if you don't know them and, and remember some of the like some of the stuff that I'm talking about, we're just talking about it 'cause we can have this conversation, it's going to hit people differently. Some people go that's bunch of BS. And I always caution people to say I don't do that when people share. Why? Because look, you, I'm a guy that's that's still in the LDS church. Temple card carrying member right and who've had such enormous experiences that I should have left this thing a million years ago, so to speak right and and I and I look at that and people go, why don't you leave?

1:46:38 Well, this is my battlefield. This is where God put me. But at the same time you're a fundamentalist. Technically speaking, we shouldn't I mean, technically speaking, we we get along perfectly, but for many people they'd have a heart attack. So when I tell these guys, I'm just saying what's always funny to me is that most people see talking to you and having this discussion is not staying in the boat fair. Why? Because we're all of this Jacob 5, right? Here's this is the thing I tell people all the time. When you watch this and you remember this is the the allegory of the of the of the olive tree and the vineyard. People always go. This is the thing that drives everybody nuts. It's like worse than Isaiah and you know, the prophet. What is it?

1:47:20 Zenith or zenith? I can't remember. I think it's zenith. You know, he puts that out there and he's probably sitting there going, dude, they think, they think Isaiah is bad. Watch. This and he but here's the deal when you read through it at the very end, what happens what happens is the the master of the vineyard saying there's no good fruit none like none. What could I have done more in my vineyard. So when I explain that to people I'm like quit acting like you have good fruit. Why the Lord said there's none and then here's the other thing. He goes then then what happens to the rules change because now the servant proffers the strategy. He goes, well, master spared a little longer. That's kind of interesting.

1:48:02 People have a lot of their takes. But if we're supposed to be like the Lord, we're supposed to take on those things. Then we start out as listening to the master, the vineyard as a servant, and then we shift because we have skill. And then after a while, what happens? We become, oh, you mean I created Adam, you in my image. So go multiply and replenish their become like me you, you're going to watch that shift in Jacob 5. And So what happens He says master, is it promise? Just spare it a little longer. Who makes the call? Not the master of the vineyard. The servant makes the call, the Lord saying just burn it all I'm done. And then the master, which I think is an interesting flip, right?

1:48:45 The servant says master, spare it a little longer and he goes, is it probable or plausible? I'm paraphrasing that it's because of the loftiness of the vineyard that there's no good fruit. See, master the The branches have gained strength unto themselves, but the roots are still good. OK, we'll spare a little longer. And then comes the strategy. Let's go out and clip the branches just enough so that the good can overtake the evil. Not so much, right that you right, just just enough to give the the roots and the strength of the goodness to overcome it, right. Do that.

1:49:26 And then once they do it, it works. They get good fruit. And then the master, the vineyard goes, you know what, go call all the other servants, rinse and repeat. This is the last time we'll work in the vineyard. OK, So what are the actual modern day mechanics of that? Well, part of it is people misunderstand the commandments in the word of God because of their own interpretations. It's good for men to be learning as long as they. And then they say, oh, listen to the spirit. Well, yeah, but if you're listening to the Spirit is mechanism #1 you didn't finish it, so you're just planting right Things that you don't know. So it's just everywhere.

1:50:09 So the point is, is part of that for me is instructing. And then what happens is people can clip that and go, oh, that's what the Lord saying. And they go that way. I'm not beholden. And that's the problem that the Jews had in the back, right? They, they thought this is the way it is. The word of God is immutable and this is the way it works. And they were wrong, right, that it had been misinterpreted and things that they were doing were, you know, questionable to a degree. And so anyway, it's the same exact thing. And we have to understand what that means. And in the end, right, the servants that are all going to do it are going to be those who have clipped their own branches.

1:50:52 So the good overtakes the evil. And then all of a sudden they will be called to go out and do the rest. And, and everybody's version of that in that format could be very different, like my role, and it might be very different, your role, and it might be very different. Why? Because your battleground is completely, completely different than mine. Right. Right. I'm still in here. You're, you're right. So the ability for us to talk and to get on that makes all the difference in the world to people, right? Right. Yeah, I. Love the thing I love about talking with people that have your guys's background is for the Joshua Ericsson, his people, everything. It's like I said, they're the people that are studying and still and it's and and working on truth. They're open to the Lord to talk to them, whereas everybody sometimes over here is like, Nope, this is what I was told and that's the way it is and nothing else. Gotcha.

1:51:50 And then that stuff keeps changing all the time. And so now you're like, I can't really do much. So my job is to be in here and, and just kind of pull people right as they, as they start, seemingly start to fall apart because they do, as you know, 70% of those people are leaving and they're leaving because they don't have an answer. And what they need is the, the process to go, oh, here's the mechanisms. It's 1230. OK, I'm not here to tell them the answer. I'm here to show them the mechanism to go get the. Answer right. Here's how you can find it which. Which I think is so, so important. Right, back to a kind of coming full circle from where we started.

1:52:32 The ability to think critically, right is, is something that we're sorely lacking in society today at large. And, and again, it's only through that, that ability to, to think differently, to, to be able to parse these ideas out. Who's really good at? That is, is the the the Canadian psychologist Jordan Peterson OH. Peterson, yeah, he's good at. That right, he sees he, he extracts things out of there that I don't know very many Mormons who'd be like, well, it's not necessarily what I think it means, but I can see how you can got there. And there's value in that, right? Let's put it. This way, whether his interpretation is exactly the way people think it should be, the advice works exactly.

1:53:18 Right. And so think about what you're saying and that and and I'll proffer this what you're talking about is it could it couldn't it be applied to DNC and I where where the Lord is telling Oliver once again circle back to this Oliver. You haven't you haven't continued as you started. You need to study it out in your mind and then ask me if it be right and what we keep doing because you and what did he say? You took no thought but to ask me. Yeah, that's that's daddy. What? What's the answer to this problem? And you can either tell them the answer or you can say, son, you seem to be struggling with math.

1:54:01 Let me what? What is it that you're struggling with? OK, let's find a way for you to understand the process so you can work the problem and actually obtain knowledge and. And that's that's the other thing. I like what you're doing. You're not saying that anyone should come up with the same interpretation you are. You're simply there to help them have the tools to be able to get their own answer from God. Yeah. That's the point, right? Because God is how unsearchable are his mysteries, right? Jacob said. That's it's all sitting right there and Jacob, right, he's talking about that whole entire thing because why is the stuff I'm talking about delivered to me when I talk about the concept of Genesis and Adam and Eve and that structure? When I talk about that to people, I'm not telling everybody that.

1:54:47 I'm talking to people who are struggling with that concept and feeling pushed out because they feel like they have to be some subservient idiot and there's nothing in them that's like that very strong women, very whatever. And I'm like, that's not what that means. And when I explain that to them at that point, can it mean many other things? Absolutely. I've got lots of different things that come from that Lego build. The point is, is when I explain that to them, they go, oh, and now all of a sudden that huge gap and problem that they have with God gone, it's gone.

1:55:28 They have peace because they finally make sense to them. But I can I can talk about that a whole bunch of different ways, right? And when people go, well, that that's not the way it works. OK, well, then you need to understand Bezelow, right? This is the shirt I wear all the time. Is is this one. It's 12/12. Right. 1212 stands for bezel or bezel, bezel and bezel. Same guy was the individual that God gave to Moses to architect, chief architect and designed the Tabernacle and everything in it. And then he had a he had a another guy with him called the Holy up.

1:56:10 And when it's all said and done, right, that number 1212 stands for that. It's, it's, it's indicative of him. And then it's lamed Lamad, which is really interesting, right? So, and so he taught US1 having authority, right? That's what lamad means. And so when you understand who besalal is or besalal, then you start to go to 1st Nephi 21 verse 2, right? And then you start to understanding in the end, not and, and, and everybody has a different format of that. But when you're going through that and you go, OK, well, let's go, let's go to that. And you go, OK, here's first Nephi 21 verse 2, which we all know that, right? That's Isaiah 49. And he has made my mouth like a sharp sword in the shadow of his hand hath he hid me, and he made me a polished shaft in the quiver hath he hid me, and said unto me, Thou art my servant, O Israel, in whom I will be glorified. So when you look at that and you go, right, that's that's attached, that's the shadow.

1:57:09 Well, the shadow is directly attached to in Hebrew to Bezelo and Betzalah was a master of the use of the Hebrew aleph bet in order to create and build for the purpose that it was needed, right? In the end, it's good if the results of it are good if I have resolved not in a made-up interpretation. This is all can be backed up by scripture, scripture, scripture forever on every platform. I'll use the the the Quran doesn't make any difference to me. It's all the same to me, right? And so when you do that and you can create with that, then you can resolve. And it's not fake.

1:57:50 It's not, it's not, right? Because God speaks to people differently, right? My job and your job is completely different. So I can't say to you, why are you a pitcher? Because I'm not a pitcher. Why? Because I like playing shortstop, man. I'm freaking good at it, right? Some guys are like, I'm a catcher. Why? Because I've got really good hands and I don't mind 100 mile an hour ball coming out with a guy with a big deal with a bat, right. Everybody's got a different thing. And what happens a lot of times is the competition of individuals like that's not right. I'm right. It's possible that you're all right. It's just that your assignment as the pitcher is not the same as the catcher. So why are you looking at the guy guy telling him he's wrong?

1:58:31 How do you pitch like that? All that gear on and I look at that and I go, yeah. And that's called not be, not, no, be, not no understanding, not being very wise. And yeah. Especially given that that the meaning you might draw out could change depending on your circumstances. Right? Yeah, you're. Absolutely right. You know that. I mean, you've got probably tons of examples of how certain scriptures have adjusted themselves the whole time. So you can't ever say that the first time is the right the only time. Right. Yep, it's not. Set in stone the Lord. There's matter unorganized. Right. And and I think it's worth pointing out too, what you're talking about is very individualistic, right? Yes.

1:59:15 It's not, it's not something you could apply to a whole church, right. This is working on the micro, not the macro, right? Yeah. Because you're. You're dealing with people's you're you're, you're helping people understand how to draw out meaning from the scriptures wherever they're at in that walk and discipleship. Yeah. 'Cause every bit of it is is fractal. Now where are you on that path? Well, that's up to you that we don't know that's everybody's individual thing. But but in the end, right. I tell people one of the things that happens if we're to gather the House of Israel, you need to understand the concept of what a Jew is in the OR Yehuda what it what that is in the sense of of. Like ancient Kabbalistic Judaism. And it's not a function of being genetically Jewish, even though I'm actually genetically Jewish.

2:00:12 I'm by genetics. I'm an Ashkenazi and a Sephardic. So I've got kind of both of those Southern and northern bloodlines running in. And so in doing that, I am physically, genetically Jewish. But to be Yehuda, to be a Jew, is to have all of the attributes developed in you, because if we understand how you who they spelled, then you have the elements of God's name, yothe vape in your name. So you are to be of God, be therefore perfect, even as I am my father and never perfect. That's what being a Jew actually really means, right? And so we don't think of it that way. Most people and Christians will look at it and go because they don't know anything about ancient Judaism and the trueness of of parts of Judaism. So they don't realize that that's that's the format of it. You understand that when you understand the language, you understand it when you understand the depth of the ancient part of the language and then you realize that's what it means.

2:01:06 So that being said, everybody identifies when I talk about things. I said everybody identifies with a different tribe because of all of their personalities and everything that goes on. God created the perfect organizational system when it came to organizational psychology did in the camp of Israel. He validates it right there. And so in the end, you're right. That's kind of the the main concept for me. I just want to teach people a mechanics and mechanisms and measuring metrics. And then they get to go out and really conduct all the tests themselves, and the Lord can tell them what He wants them to do. Got you. Got you. Well, dude, this has been awesome. Is there anything that you want to touch on that we haven't?

2:01:47 Man, I just I just want to seriously thank you. I have feel greatly blessed to have conversations with with men like you. It's it's refreshing and the ability to just be able to talk about things that are critical in nature and everybody's path and journey to the Lord. And it's like we said, some people I've watched walk off anyway so yeah. So I just wanted to say thank you for that because I. Appreciate you coming on. So I know it can always be maybe not so much for you, but for other folks, it's always a bit taxing when you're like, you want to come talk to the Fundy guy on the podcast?

2:02:30 Dude I. I think it's, I think it's fantastic. I wish we had more panels like that because then people could look at it and go, hey man, this is a right. Yeah, but. They paint you guys out to be scary monsters and you're like, come on, man. Well. Well, I I get it too right too. But Warren Jeffs didn't help us out none, right? No, that's fair. Fair like that, that we got those guys too, man. Yeah, we yeah, it went right it. Can't, it can be tough that, you know, you always encounter the stereotype, you know, the stereotypes and whatnot. But yeah, you know, look, I got, I got a good friend and he's like, so let me get this straight. You're, you're going to be a Mormon fundamentalist. I'm like, yeah, that's, that's kind of what I believe. And he goes, so are you going to make Amber dress dress up in those Prairie dresses?

2:03:25 And I'm like, no, no, what's going to go get out of here, Right. No, that's not what I do. If we could, I feel like if we could just break that stereotype a little. We would be. We would. Be we would be be good to go so it's OK man. Mormon wives didn't help us either. No, dude, that's the other one, right? Like, so whatever happened to you guys, man? We we're getting in spades because that crap's on Netflix, Yeah. Yeah, I, I haven't even looked at it, bro. I looked at that and I'm like, no, no, for one, you know, that was one of those things where I'm like, I'm glad they're still in the LDS Church because I can just honestly say not my, you know, not my monkeys, not my circus, Right?

2:04:09 Yeah, No. Fair enough. Hey, can I shout? I want to shout out. Is it cool if I shout out to? Well, I remember you can edit it. Shout out to Jeff Foley. I want to shout out to Joshua Erickson again, and also Jeff, who I think is just a funny guy and a really nice guy, one of the nicest guys I've ever met. Sure, I've met the gentleman a few times. Good guy. So it's the the circles are are pretty small actually. And yeah. Yeah, You know, it's funny because in the end, about a year and a half ago, I had, I was just telling my guys this and I had had, so we had, we had designed a, a pistol for some DoD contracts and because that's part of what I do weapons design and for DoD guys and name withheld missions. And so anyway, so I'd done that and it just come out. They sent me two and I was going to go, go in to go do the review and, and go out to the ranch and shoot it. So I was on the way out there and I was all the stuff I'd been talking about.

2:05:08 I've been, you know, I have some connections inside, you know, church places and, and I've been talking to guys and I, I sent like 15 books up to up to the brethren because I have some access there. And, and it's so all that stuff is kind of funny. And, and so as I'm driving, I'm not getting any connectivity of them. You guys need to and they're like, Nope, I even tried out. I was like, let let me teach seminary. Nope. A guy that the guy with my background, the church is so funny that I spoke at CES and did all this stuff for years. And, and so anyway, what was funny is I'm, I'm driving out to Cokeville and a border Wyoming. And as I'm driving out there, I'm going through this and, and I'm not kidding, like literally I'm sitting there and as I'm driving this whole entire thought and kind of, I'm not going to say vision, but just this whole thing I saw in my head. And it was go talk to the fundamentals, the RLDS guys, the like all the people that are not in the mainstream and start talking to those guys.

2:06:13 And I went what? And I was on the phone with my buddy James. I was just talking about him today. You were. You were like. Why would I go talk to them? Their wives don't wear rear dresses. It's like. What, Why would I talk to those guys? I'm like, they don't, I mean, I don't blame them in the position that they're at. They kind of want to, you know, whack us. And I feel like we kind of took advantage of. Financially. And and so and so in the end I thought that's interesting. So here's the thing. I went and started, first of all, I later I met Jeff, but I went and started calling all kinds of guys and groups and just 'cause I didn't know where to start. I didn't have it anyway. And so and then every time I do that, nobody would call. Like I talked to a secretary and nobody would ever call me back. And I spent six months like banging phones and I couldn't get anybody to return my call.

2:07:00 And so I just went, OK, I'll just wait. I just let the seed go. And then little by little, I ended up talking to Joshua and then you and then a bunch of other guys. I'm going to, I'm going to teach on the 22nd to Denver Snuffers group and you know, so the same thing. Yeah, I I probably wouldn't let that group know that you were just talking to a fun day. You. Oh no. I know they're. Not. They'll probably have a heart attack. Yeah, they're. They're not going to dig on that too much, which is. Which is one of those things I keep saying everybody wants to. Yep. Right. They leave a group because they're mad, and then they create their own group and do the exact same thing. Absolutely.

2:07:43 Yep. Weird. Well. Anyway, man, this was. Great. Look, anytime you want to come back on you just hit me up. Once you've been on once you got a standing invitation to come back. All right, I. Appreciate that. Thanks, buddy. All right. Man, hang out for just 5 minutes. Yep. Sure thing. All right. Bye everybody.

2:08:27 The.