Episode #186: Understanding The Relationship Between The Old & New Testaments W/Tracy Roberts

0:26 The. You're listening to the Mormon Renegade podcast. Tracy, what's going on, man? Dave, it's so good to see you. I am excited. This is actually the first podcast that I have ever participated in, and so thank you for inviting me. I know that I've looked at some of your other podcasts that you've actually had some so kind of important people on, and so I appreciate that you all have me on here. People, they're all important people.

1:08 So no, dude, I'm just happy you're here. We met a couple of different times at at some of Joshua Erickson stuff. Shout out to Josh and just kind of hit it off. And then Josh told me you were writing a book and, and dude, I just thought, you know, that's it's an interesting premise and we'll get into the book in a minute, but I'm just glad you're on, man. I I'm looking forward to this conversation. Well, I am thankful to be on and and I'm guessing from the title of your podcast that that people won't be offended if I if I tell them things like that. When, when I had a holy man, when I was a young man, put his hands on prophet of God, put his hands on my head and some people call him patriarchs, but this was like a real holy man. So anyway, and tell me the one of the things that God wanted me to do is he says you are to preach, teach and expound the gospel to the inhabitants of the earth. And because of the Internet and how we got technology, then this may be a literal, A literal fulfillment of that prophecy all those many years ago that was put upon my head. Interesting.

2:26 So dude, when? Like, OK, so news flash, your accent gives it away. You're not from Utah, right? Where, where, where, Where did you grow up? Originally, I am, in my dad's words, I'm a Texan born and a Texan bred, and when I die, I'll be a Texan dead. And so I grew up. I was born in Dyess Air Force Base in Abilene out in West, TX. And then after my dad got out of the Air Force, then we moved to the Houston area. And then after we were there for some years that we moved up to the country and I got to be right next to where my granny lived. And so I had family that even if I wanted to kind of go astray, I probably couldn't have because I was from a small town and everybody knew everybody's business. Dude, I grew up in a very small town. I shouldn't say grew up.

3:22 I spent my teenage years in a very small town in western Idaho and it was back during, you know, the, the late 80s to to mid 90s, right? And like, I look at the stuff I did as a kid now and I'm like, oh, kids just aren't getting away with that. They're going to be put on like 4 what watch list if they did half the crap I did, right? And you know, like we all drove, we all drove home, you know, drove around with shotguns in our trucks and left them at school. And that, you know, it was fine, right? But very small town, Much the same way. If I stood up, I could bank that somebody who's going to hold me accountable is going to hear about it before I ever get a chance to explain.

4:06 Right, You, you, they're going to know that you got in trouble before you get home that night. Yeah, absolutely, 100% yes, yes. And and I look back on that and at the time it drove me nuts, but looking back on it now, I kind of miss those times, right. Just kind of back close knit community and that sort of thing. So, but so were you raised Mormon I. Was I am a 6th generation Mormon. My children are seven generation Mormons on both sides. And so our people go back to the to the beginning of the of the restoration, which which is part of my story, but and I served a mission for the church, the the Brighamite branch. I'm a the corporation up in Salt Lake is the gotcha. I don't, I don't.

5:02 And and when I I don't know if you want me to get into stories or Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, let's just what? What? What when when you said you were raised Mormon now were you guys like family home evening every Monday night kind of Mormons, you know, scripture study everyday kind of Mormons I. Mean what are we? Talking here. No family home. Evening was Monday Night Football. There's nothing wrong with that. No, I, I mean, I'm not joking what I'm saying that the whole family was watching Monday Night Football and so that was the closest we got to. But my dad, he, he came to church some and, and but my mother, she was from Cache Valley up in Hiram, Utah.

5:48 And so her, her people were way back going to the beginning of the restoration and they, they came from England and they came from Norway. And so, so I, I have a, a long, a long line of people that are, that are in the restoration, my, my children. So on my wife's side, John Solomon Fulmer was legal counsel to the Prophet Joseph. And he was one of the men that the night before the martyrdom, it says that Joseph laid on the floor and he put his arms out and two men used his biceps for pillows, basically.

6:35 And John Solomon Fulmer was one of those individuals that that did it. And he was a his story is a great story, but. Was your dad in the restoration? Was he raised? No, no, but he had read Zane Grey and in his Zane Grey then he, he learned about Mormons and he would, he decided before he even knew anything about that he was going to marry a Mormon. And guess what? He married a Mormon and and so he was. He was in and out of the church, but. That's interesting because there's a couple books that Zen Gray has. I'm thinking writers of the Purple Sage in particular, where he doesn't play, paint Mormonism in a very pleasant light. What?

7:24 Well, whatever he was saying apparently got my dad's attention. And then what? And then when he was on a bus being transferred from one duty station to another, and my mother was going to to work for Frontier Airlines in Denver, they rode on a bus and and spent a day or so. And all the sudden a few months later, they started corresponding and they got married. So. So my parents got together by a bus ride across the country. Nice, nice. So, but, and then your mom left Utah and then lived, you know, married your dad and went to Texas. Yes, gotcha.

8:07 And so, so one of the things down in Texas, you can tell when church gets out because every church in the area, the parking lot will be full and then every parking lot at every restaurant in town will be full. And then you know, church is out. And so you want to you want to get there before everybody. So you want to get out of church quick and go to the restaurant. And so anytime my dad would come to church then I would always be happy because that meant we were going to go out to eat after church, so. I get it, I get it. Awesome.

8:49 So now what was your what was your growing up years like in in the church? Did you was it a good experience for you? I mean. It was, and I also, there was a, a lot of pretty girls that lived up in Tyler, TX cause states are. And so I might have had some influence from, from really pretty girls that, that encouraged me to go on a mission. And so my motives may not have been as pure as can be, but when I went on my mission, I went on my mission for 18. I was called for an 18 month mission and then and then three months after I was started my mission, they, they changed the changed it back to two years.

9:39 And so now all the missionaries that were out got to pick whether they were going to stay on a mission or you could go home at 18 months just like you were called it. Know what? Nobody would blink an eyeball at you. And it was good. But all of the missionaries in the New Zealand Christchurch mission. So I, I went down to New Zealand. It was a hard, yeah, I mean terror. It's a hard thing to have to go down to the one of the most beautiful islands in the whole world, but. Rough duty, but you pulled it off. Yes, I was able to do it. But I saw all of these missionaries were out and they were fasting and praying and they were in turmoil and and I was just like going are you kidding me?

10:22 Tracy, your camera seems to be safe. It, it, I was just noticing that too. I'll, I'll tighten it up and hopefully we'll. OK, all right. And, and so they were, they were going through turmoil and me being smart, thinking I'm smarter, maybe even smarter than God sometimes, which isn't a good plan to be in. But so I, I set up and talk to God. And I don't know how other people were talk to or refer to God, but I know how that we talk and we have conversations from time to time. And so I said, here's the deal. So I'm laying out this argument that I think is a ironclad argument.

11:08 I'm a great debater. I so I'm, I'm making the best argument as possible. And I said God, I'm going to set up and I'm going to acknowledge some things about you. You are, you know everything. You're omnipresent, omniscient, you know the first from the last, the beginning and the end. You're all of that. And I acknowledge it. I also acknowledge that one of your prophets, a holy man, put his hands upon my head and gave me a blessing for my life. So here's what I'm going to do, God. I'm going to go read my patriarchal blessing and if you tell me to stay on my mission for an extra 6 months, then I'll stay on my mission for an extra 6 months.

11:54 If you didn't say anything about it, then what? Watch, I'm going to go home just like your prophet told me to do. He called me for 18 months and then we'll call 18 months and we'll be good. So I think I I'm smart. OK, pause right there for a second because I want to I want to revisit something because this second time it's come up here in in the first few minutes. So it's obviously an important part of your your, your journey here. You talk this holy man that you refer to. Is that a state patriarch? Is that what you're? Talking about yeah, he'd be a state patriarch, but this one, his name was Moroni Hamblin.

12:36 And he was one of those men that when he walked into the building, you knew, you knew the presence of God was walking in with him. So when I call him a holy man, he is a state patriarch. But whether he had been in the Restoration or not in the Restoration, he was a holy man. So I guess, I guess that's my clarification on it, is that he was really a man of God without. That that blessing that you got was your patriarchal blessing. Yes, and it was. And so now I'm reading it and I, and I'm reading the first page and I, I get through the first page and I turn it over and there's only five more paragraphs and I'm smiling.

13:23 God, I've read this document 100 times and I know it doesn't say anything about staying on a mission. So I that's why I thought I was pretty slick. So I keep on reading and I read another paragraph, four more to go. And then all of a sudden there's this one phrase and it says you are to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of as many as possible. And I said, I guess I'll be staying on my mission for another six months. And God said that is correct. And so, so after that, when I had about four more months left to go, then my mission president said, I want you to stay on.

14:09 I need you to stay one more month. So I extended my my mission seven months from my original calling. So I may be the only one in the whole world that, well maybe not. But anyway, I thought I was pretty cool because I was called for a 18 month mission and served for 25 months. I guess the rest of the story on it is if I, if I had only gone for 18 months, then my whole mission experience would have been for not. And, and I know that baptisms in the way that we can judge things, but, but on my mission I had one baptism in 18 months and in the last four months of my mission, we were able to baptize 9 individuals and it was probably my most spiritual growth.

15:10 Part of my whole experience was in those last those last months, so I'm very glad that I did stay for that extra time. Awesome. So, so it does sounds like that first part of the mission was really rough and then the second part you had a lot. You had some pretty decent success, yes. Now when you're done with your mission, you end up just coming, you end up going back to Texas. Do you go to Utah? Where what? What happens after your mission? Well, I went to Texas back to I went back home and then after and was working and then I was thinking, you know what, BYU, that's where all the Mormon girls are. So if I want to get me a good Mormon girl, I probably should go to BYU.

16:00 And so, but I was 29 before, before I get married, I guess I'm jumping the gun. So I was probably 20, three before I even started college, but I, I went to the local Community College in Utah. It's now a university, It's now Utah Valley University, but it was Utah Valley Community College at the time. And then after a couple of years, I had a great, I want to say seminary teacher, but institute teacher Ed Penniger. And he's another man of God that had a great influence on me. And so I said to when I was about to fill out my paperwork to transfer to BYU, I said, Brother Ed, can you write me a recommendation?

16:55 And he says, sure, I would love to write you a recommendation. And he wasn't supposed to even show me what he had written, but he gave me a copy of his recommendation. And when I read it, basically he was saying, this is a good boy and and you're going to let him into our university. And when I read what he had written, I was just like, I get to go to BYU. Ed Pennerger, if I'm not mistaken, he was a pretty prominent author in the LDS church for a while too, right? Yes, yes he was. He was a retired dentist. He served as mission president a couple of times in England and somewhere else. He was also the president of the MTC, the Missionary Training Center. And he was, he was just awesome.

17:43 And to to be in close proximity and have someone of that influence write me a letter of recommendation. I believe I had the grades, but I believe that that was probably 1 of the biggest reason why I got to go to BYU. Gotcha. What'd you major in at BYU? Clinical science and early American history. Nice. So the the founding era was where I studied and. Nice, nice. OK. So did you, did you get a wife while you were there? Well. I, I did, I, I would go country dancing every Saturday night at the old Armory in Provo, UT And I said, God, this is where I'm going to be on Saturday night. And so if you want to send my wife along here, I was dating some really beautiful and wonderful ladies at the time. But one night a young lady came in and she was just coming because her friends wanted to go. And when I saw her, literally, it was like blowing my mind And I was going, this is pretty because I may be shallow and I'm, I'll say this to the whole wide world. I can't imagine waking up in the bed next to a ugly woman. But so I, and that makes sense.

19:14 Sounds shallow, but I hope that everybody believes and looks at their at their spouse as just the one, the most beautiful queen that you can imagine. Because if, if you find the right queen or Queens, then then you, they can take you to places that the the you and I. And OK, I'm just point all the fingers back at me that she's able to take me places that I, I never ever would have been able to go in the gospel and study and doing all things by myself I just never would have been able to accomplish. So I was blessed to have a wonderful lady that made my world something else.

20:03 And we have 5 kids. They have a son, two daughters and two sons. And my baby is about to graduate tomorrow from high school. Wow. Which is blowing my mind. Congratulations, still married. Absolute 30, we're in December will be 31 years. Nice. Me and me and my wife Amber will be celebrating 30 this fall. So right there, right there with you. So, so as you, as you're in BYU, you find your wife, when do you just start working that that church program, right? You get in there, you start ascending the ladder as far as callings and that sort of stuff.

20:48 What What's life like for you after you're married with your? Wife Well when I was in college I was a elders corn president and and other things and and when I got married, we got married in the Manti Temple. OK. And we got married by Elder Philip Sontag of the Quorum of the 70 President. Sontag was the area president down in the South Pacific when I was there and I got to to know him quite a bit. And so when I was the New. New Zealand has a New Zealand missionary society.

21:28 So every the Friday night before conference, all New Zealand missionaries go to to the Rose Park, which is kind of in a sketchy part of Salt Lake right now, but back in, but it's been there for 30 years or whatever. They go to the this New Zealand Mission reunion. And so there would be, when I was going, there would be, you know, sometimes 10 general authorities would be at this event. And so it was kind of nice and three months before we were going to get married was what conference was happening. And I finally got the nerve to go up to Sister Sontag.

22:10 And I said, Sister Sontag, Ken, if I asked President Sontag if we were, if he would perform our wedding, what do you think he would say? And so she was all affirmative and said we go all over the world to do these things. So finally I, I got up enough nerve to go up to this general authority and, and ask him and, and he says, well, I'll have to call the the first Presidency and, and I think I can work it into my schedule. And so a few days later I get on my answering machine. This is Elder Sontag and the first presidency has approved me to come and perform your wedding down in Manti on December 16th. And so we'll see you down there.

22:56 So if I had a the First Presidency approved my personal wedding. So I'm just going to say that. Wow. That's awesome. So, so during your your time, you know, as a newly married couple, is it just like true blue to the church or you guys like just in it to win it as far as as church goes? Yes, I think so. And after I graduated from from college, then I got a job at the Utah County Sheriff's Office as a deputy sheriff. And so we're going along. And there came a point where the First Presidency made some kind of announcement about how you shouldn't carry guns at church.

23:45 And and. Levi wrote down in a journal, she says. That's your wife. Yes, Levi, yes. So she wrote down, she says this is going to be the issue that will, that will take Tracy out of the church. How'd she feel about it? The more the more I text. She is a very spiritual person and but she's not very fond of religions per SE. OK, currently so that's she's closer to God than most people that I know. And yet a corporation or or what we call religion has kind of beat her up through the years and not really be, but she doesn't care for it so much.

24:43 So she was firmly in your corner on this is what you're what you're. Yeah, yes. And, and she has a spirit of prophecy and so I believe that she was actually seeing the end result. She can see things. So if she comes to you and says Brother Dave and then whispers something in your ear, then you could take it or leave it, but I would take it. I would take it under advisement that you might want to take it back to God and say, hey, somebody just told me because she does have that that spirit of knowing and the I the Spirit of prophecy with her. And so she was able to to see things in advance. And if I'm, if I'm jumping up because of kind of where you're going in 2019, the late August of 2019, I'm now retired from the Sheriff's Office, have been for a while. And hold on, am I going too fast? You hold on one second.

25:46 Yeah, I want to explore this because this is all right. I have a feeling like this is the beginning of things, right? So what's your thoughts as you hear this announcement by the 1st Presidency? I am madder than a Hornet. I I am. I am just like I took an oath before God to protect people and I will. But now I'm I'm a deputy sheriff, so I get to carry my gun at church anyway. But but I was it that letter, it got under my skin. It really did. Is this the first time you found yourself questioning the church?

26:28 Yes, I believe so. I believe it. I really do believe it was because 'cause I was like going, why would they ever tell people not to have protection? For me? It was like putting up a sign that says come rob or come hurt the people of God because they don't have guns. And so that was, that's how I interpreted it. And, and so really, I think it was it, it must have put a little crack in my, in my armor, as it were. So, so this is the first time that, that, that you find a, a, a, a bit of space between what, what the church is saying and what you're believing, right?

27:16 Yes. From there, what happens to you? I keep on, I keep on keeping on for years. But but I'm also because I've got a good friend, Reverend Kenneth Jackson, down in Texas. And so I reconnect with him and I'm being invited to speak at churches all over the place. And I'm not telling them that I'm Mormon because then they probably wouldn't invite me back. But they love what I have to say. And the first time that I got called up in a little black Baptist Church in East Texas, then then I'm sitting there and Reverend Jackson, he's preaching and then God says to me in 5 minute, you have 5 minutes, He's going to call you up, be ready.

28:11 And I'm like, well, what are you talking about? Get ready, 5 minutes. So that is the gift that God has given to me. Anytime that I walk into a church, if a preacher or pastor and elder, whoever is over the church, if they're going to call on me, God will give me a 5 minute notice. And so I, so I said, well, what am I going to preach and, and God says, how about Alma chapter 5. And I was like Alma chapter 5 being born again. I'm in a Baptist Church. I think, I think being born again might be a good sermon that these people could hear. And so I literally read out of the Book of Mormon portions of Alma chapter 5 and the people were giving me Hallelujah and everything and and I obvious I obviously didn't tell them where I was reading out of, but it was truth and so they knew it. Right.

29:05 So, so at this time you said it, this was in Texas. Were you living in Texas at this time? No, I was. I was. Oh, that was right after my mission. Yes, So I was. So that was before I even went to college. OK, that. Story is kind of things were OK, all right, that's before college. OK, so again moving on post marriage and college. Yes. We we find that there's this bit of space between you and the church over this one policy. And then how does that gap widen, so to speak? What? What happens next? It might be the the the gospel topics essays. OK.

29:56 Then they're written by lawyers and all the sudden I have been, with fervent passion, I have been preaching against those evil anti Mormons that have been telling lies, damnable lies that they've been, that they've been lying to the people and what they say is not true. And now all of a sudden I am reading, I'm reading from the church's own website, that all the things that I was claiming, proclaiming with the with the zeal of youth, all of those things were actually true.

30:41 What kind of lies are you talking about here? What? What kind of things are are you running into here? Now there there are so many so I'm going to try to. Just name the ones that were most influential on you. Was it Joseph practicing polygamy? Was it? Yeah, yes. And my wife tripped out on me about that because she was just like, well, I knew that Joseph practice polygamy and because I'm in East Texas and I'm not in Utah. Mormonism the only thing that I knew about Joseph is that when I went to Nauvoo that there was this beautiful statue and Joseph was holding the hands of his beautiful wife Emma and that was my picture of it.

31:36 And so when I'm now learning the Joseph that it didn't start with Brigham, that now Joseph was was the one that was practicing plural marriage and and it was so everything that the that the Tanners were were telling people back in the 60s. Gerald and Sandra Tanner, right? Yes. Yes. House Ministries. Yes, I was finding that most of the things that that I was growing, grew up and was told were absolute lies that the Tanners had actually been telling the truth on, on some of these things. And and it was blowing my mind because because now I had a cognitive dissonance because I was told one thing. And now I've got the same people that told me the one thing are now printing something that says, oh, oh, by the way, yeah, that wasn't a lie.

32:38 That was actual truth. You know, I do want to caution people. Sandra and Gerald never, in my estimation, printed anything that wasn't true. However, what they would do is they would find old sources and they wouldn't exactly put it all into context, Right, Right, right. And that context is hugely important, right? And it's a, it's a ski. It's a tactic that we see across the board when it comes to enemies of the restoration, right? They will glom onto a quote, but they won't surround that quote with with with the context that you need to extract the full meaning of it. Or they'll put a dot dot dot and then you when you're looking at the actual text, it'll be a sentence. And in the middle of the sentence they'll cut it and then 3 pages later, that's where the dot dot dot picks up. And so I've I have seen that also, but it maybe it was part of it was was the different versions of the first vision and find and finding out that Joseph Fielding Smith was it Joseph F or Joseph Smith.

33:55 It was one of the Joseph Smith's had actually taken from the Prophet Joseph's journal and cut the pages out and until the Tanners we're saying, hey, there's the stuff. Then all sudden they taped it back in. And so you, you can look at if you're looking at the Joseph Smith papers, you can actually see the little tape where, where, where it's taped back in. And so, so it caused him such problems that he hid it instead of I don't like it when people when people lie to me, I guess. And so if it's a problem, then let me deal with it. You don't need to protect me.

34:40 Yeah, no. And and look, this is where the church has kind of shot themselves in the foot a couple of times, right? Like I don't believe that the church had I'll intent by doing that, right? What what I think, what I think they were doing here. And and look, I'll be honest with you. There are several accounts, several different versions of the first Vision, right? But what you have to understand is that Joseph Joseph isn't telling everybody everything he saw that single moment after he has it right. Right. He he's, he's obviously you wouldn't take a new convert and be like, now let me tell you, let's go through the temple, right?

35:21 You know you've been you. You don't want to give them that. You need to feed them some milk first. Yeah, they're, you know, 10 minutes ends a little soon to be going to the temple, right, right. And so Joseph's like I went back and I've reviewed, I think there's three versions that that you can really look at say for sure that those were Joseph's versions of it. There's nothing in there that contradicts. He just decides he's going to give you a little bit more every time, right? But it was so problematic to Joseph F that that he hit it for 40 years in the safe so no one could see it. And and that's that's the problem for me.

36:04 That's the problem, right? Rather than and do honest history and say, look, here's what we think this means, right? Joseph has given his his a little bit at a time until he's ready to reveal the whole thing, right. And and rather than say that the church went to great lengths to cover up some things, I guess probably from a good point of view, like do they really need to know this part? No, just put that out and let's just get a standard version, right? This, this happened during during the church's period known as correlation, right? Where the church? And that was probably one of the worst places in the whole church history.

36:44 Absolutely, but they want to try to line it up and make it make it a well it it's a marketing move is what it is right. Let's let's simplify the, the, the marketing here and and that way it's easier to digest. But what happens is it looks like, you know, whether they mean to or not, it does have the appearance of trying to hide things. So like guys like yourself who bump into it later, what are you supposed to think? Right. I'm 50 years old when I get this information. So I've been I've been preaching to people my whole life that that this is the facts. And all of a sudden now I'm learning that it's not the fact. And when you were asking the question on what were some of the things I'm finding, I start doing a deep dive into church history because of this.

37:38 And no, it's not a it was wonderful because because we have the Joseph Smith paper and now I don't have to rely on what's printed in my doctor in the covenants. I can actually go to the source and look at it and see what it was written in there. But when I'm studying, then all the sudden I'm finding, I think it was in 1921 that they, the James Talmage arbitrarily takes the lectures on faith out of the Doctrine and Covenants. And so now all we have is covenants. We don't have the doctrine. And, and that was problematic to me because the, the rule book says the, the, the people of God have to vote.

38:24 They have to vote and nobody voted to take it out. And yet it was removed from our scriptures in in a wrong manner. So, so that was one of those things that really caught my attention. And that, and there was a lot of stuff in the early 1900s that is going to become problematic. John W Smith or John W Taylor and and Matthias Callie. And now I'm from remember I served my mission in New Zealand. Matthew Callie is the missionary of New Zealand in the New Zealand Temple.

39:06 There was a huge portrait walking up the stairs in the news of Matthew Callie so and he he's in. So I love Matthias Callie because he's the daddy of Matthew Callie. And Matthew Callie was an individual that raised the dead and was able to give sight to the blind. And so he, he was like one of those real deal men of God. And, and so I'm looking at, and I'm told through my correlation that Oh well, John W Taylor and Mathias Cowley, they were kicked out of the church.

39:48 But now I'm reading they resigned from the quorum of the 12. Ain't nobody kicked them out of nothing. And and as I'm reading, I'm just like, oh, wow. And people are asking John W Taylor. They're asking and why didn't go to church. They said, because every if I walk into a church, guess who's going to be preaching that day? Me. And so he quit going to church. Because he wasn't trying to cause problems. Well, they they did excommunicate him and and Matthias Callie. I know that they did, but that was way after the fact. But but all I heard is that they got excommunicated, not that they had resigned in protest and said, OK, we're not members of the corn of the 12 anymore because we made covenants. And whether someone agrees with those covenants that are not they made covenants and they were covenant keepers, right? And what I what I found is if you make a covenant with God, you it's you'd be best advised to keep those covenants. Right, right.

40:56 So, so you discover all this stuff, right? Yes. You see that it's problematic. It's it's obviously weighing on you and understandably so. What happens next, Tracy? September 2019 is what happens next. OK, then the Bishop Cosey our, our French presiding Bishop, he says that he, he makes, he changes the policy and he says he used to say it's, it's inappropriate to have a gun at church. He changed the policy to It is prohibited to have a gun on church property. Right.

41:42 And me, so I believe in prayer. I believe that you and I can go straight to the source so I don't have to rely on anybody. I can't, I have AI can go straight to the throne room, as it were. And so I went straight to God and I said, God, what am I supposed to do? And they said, I can't carry a gun at church, but I'm I made AI made AI made an oath before you that I was going to that I would protect the people. And so so the way I was going to try to get out of it, just like I was doing when I was doing my my little extension on my mission, I said, God, am I relieved of the oath that I took to protect the people?

42:28 I'm now retired. I'm no longer a deputy sheriff. Am I relieved of that oath? And then I'm going to just say the voice that came to me torn still. Nor was it small. It was like it was no. It was like a shout from heaven that said no. And so I said, OK, God, I understand how you feel about covenants and you when we met covenants with you, we better keep them. So I said, what am I supposed to do? And God said to me, do not worship where you are not welcome. And I was like, what does that mean?

43:08 And God said, I know you're a country boy from East Texas. So I'm a, I'm a break it down for you. Do not worship where you're not welcome. And I was like, OK, well, I'm not welcome at the LDS church here. He said, I gave you your instruction. And so from that point on, then I had been going from time to time out to Rocky Ridge to the AUB. And I love the people in Rocky Ridge. I've got so many friends out there, brother Malcolm, who who's kind of like the state president out there. I, I just love the people out there. And so that's where I started going to church. And I was going there for, for a couple of years. And this was during COVID.

44:00 So I loved going out to Rocky Ridge because in the middle of COVID, there would be 700 people in the church and not one soul was wearing a mask and they were drinking the sacrament after each other because they they have the cups. And so so they pass the cups down. And I love that because I was thinking, if we're the people of God, why are we worried about the plagues that are coming on the world? Sure, it's so I was able to see that. Well, let me stop you here for a second. So people have a choice when they encounter the old stuff, right?

44:42 Like it's just you did. And and by and large, you know, this isn't 100% true. This is a generalization. But by and large, you're either not going to be a Mormon anymore or you're going to become a fundamentalist, right? Right. What is it that you think it was about the gospel or your experiences that helped you stick around when you found out it wasn't true? Because it would have been easy just to be like, look, they lied to me, so it all must be wrong, right? What kept you? What kept you tethered to the gospel despite seeing the inconsistencies that you found in the LDS Church? Doctor the Covenant, Section 112. In that section, I would preach to people all the time in that section, God said I'm going to clean my house 1st and he said, I'm going to start here.

45:35 I'm but I'm going to clean up my own house and for forever. When I would talk to people about that, I'll say, so if you see, if you see people that are in the church and they're not acting right, they just know God said that his house is going to have to be clean. It's going to have to be swept out. And, and so I was making it kind of in a generalized way. And then all of a sudden I was talking to somebody and I told them that story. And, and I don't know how you, how you receive revelation or get information, but when I'm told you need to go back to the text, then I'm telling something not exactly the way I need it.

46:18 And so God says, why don't you go back to that text, go back to section 112 of the doctorate covenants and read the whole section and then come back to me and tell me who it's talking about. So I do it and then before the the verses and it's like 24. I don't have them in front of me, but where where he says he's going to clean his house. But right up above that, then it tells you he says that he's talking to the First Presidency and the quorum of the 12. And then he says, and from this place I'm going to clean my house. And then right after that, then he's then it says then he mentions the quorum, the 12 and the First Presidency. So anybody who knows Hebrew writing style or has read the Book of Mormon, then they know that there are these cosmic formations where AB major point BC so so it makes a ladder and then it makes a major point and then it comes down the ladder. And so in my mind, what happened when I'm reading it is it was telling me that that before he was going to have to clean his house, that he's talking to the First Presidency in Coram of the 12.

47:41 And in case you missed it, right after he says he's going to clean his house, then he tells you that he's talking about he's talking to the First Presidency in Coram as well. So the direct answer to your question is this, God said, why are you surprised? I told the Prophet Joseph way back when I told 150 years ago, I told him that and it was probably more than that. I should probably figure out how many years it is. But he says, but he said, why would you be surprised when I said that the that my church was going to be out of order? Why would you be surprised if you found that it was out of order?

48:26 And so that's what has kept me in in in the restoration. And there have been many times that when I would learn things that I wanted to just throw the Prophet Joseph away. I mean, there were some things I was reading. I want to throw them what back can't because I can't explain all the other stuff. And, and so my conclusion is that the Prophet Joseph is a Mystic in the truest sense of the word. And by Mystic, I'm going to define it as every two or three thousand years in the history of the world, there will be someone who comes along that changes the whole world. You'll get a Confucius, you'll get a Buddha, you'll get a Lord Krishna, you'll get Jesus, you'll get a Moses, Abraham. And those are the people that that I believe that are Mystics. And I'm going to put the Prophet Joseph in that same category. Now it's easier if if I just said they're prophets of God, that's easier.

49:37 But for me, they're, they're more than just prophets of God because they're bringing knowledge and truth that has either been lost or never had on the earth. Got you. That's what has kept me, that what has kept me in because I can't explain him away. And even when I wanted to and I got mad at the Prophet Joseph a few times and then I would have to go, yeah, but look at all this other. So if if I'm doing a balancing act and I'm not trying to do a balancing act, but my mind's kind of simple and and I'm just like going, yeah, he, he he's a prophet. I can't explain him any other way or calling him a Mystic in in the the vein of Jesus and Moses and those sorts. Gotcha, gotcha.

50:32 You know, that term doesn't frighten me like it maybe frightens others, right, Because that term Mystic, right? And, and look, I want to say this, I think, and I've said this before on the podcast, if we're not encountering the divine. Yes, thank you. We're, we're, we're not, we're, we're not it. It would be like going to a buffet and thinking that there were certain things that were off limits to you that you really wanted, right? Because the whole thrust of Joseph's message is is I had an experience with deity, and I'm going to show you how you can do the same. Right. And that's, and that's what he's about. And so, and, and, and it really helps to be kind of gosh, how do I say this without irritating people, whatever I feel like sometimes the Catholics have this really narrowed down as far as how some of their laborers labels, right. The Catholics are real good about talking about Mystics or talking about, you know, they, they classified Pope John Paul the Second as a Mystic, right?

51:43 Because he has. Oh, no kidding, right? Because he has certain dreams and, and, and it's really out of one of those those experiences, right. And, and one of the things I, I know that helps certain people wrap their minds around this, throw out the word Mystic and maybe or mystical experience, throw that word out and just put encountered the divine, right? Yes, it was it was out of it was out of an encounter with the divine that John Paul the second says, OK, I got to team up with Reagan and Nancy Thatcher to end communism, right? It was out of that. He was he, he, he was huge on that, right. And so we see that religious leaders, the ones that really have an impact, they have that encounter with the divine, right. We see it with Moses.

52:29 We see it certainly with Abraham. We see it, you know, and, and I'm just talking about the Judeo-christian traditions here. They encounter the divine. And then for us, that should give us a road map on how to get there. Right, right. And so the Greeks are going to call that a theophany is when you encounter the divine, you're you're coming in contact with God in a way that not everybody gets to experience. And the Prophet Joseph is going to say, whatever I have learned, seen or heard, you can do the same. And that I love so much about the Prophet Joseph.

53:09 So as you discovered all these inconsistencies between the old days and now, it's got to send you searching, right? So you go searching for the one true church now again. No, because all right, let me qualify that in the Doctrine of Covenants. What I found was that three on three different occasions, God is telling us that we're supposed to read from the best books and my conclusion from studying the Old Testament. So studying the Tanakh, the the Torah, the the old books and then studying the Bible and and ancient writings all over the place is my conclusion has been that I have been able to find truth all over the place, Nuggets of truth. And, and it looks like that nobody, no matter who they say or what they say, has a corner on the market that that is my assessment.

54:23 And so God has sent me out to so I'm reading. If you look behind me up here, you can find 10 different versions of the Bible. You can you can also find the Bhagavata. You can find the Quran. You can find, you can find the books, holy books from all over the world. And I'm not necessarily encouraging everybody to read those things, but God has given me a gift where I can. I can go through a lot of rubble and then all of a sudden say, Brother Dave, look at this gold nugget that I just found. And I'm probably not going to tell you to go read the book that I had to go 1500 pages through to find that one nugget of gold.

55:09 But I might say, hey, here's a nugget of gold. You don't need to go through it because I found it. Well, that was that was something that was taught by both Joseph Ambergam, right? Yes, yes. They said all, you know, all truth belongs to Mormonism, right? And and they weren't, they weren't afraid to go find that, right? And and so no, that's, that's good. So you, you start looking around, right? You start reading other books, so to speak, right, yes. And where does that lead you? Well, it, it led me down a path and, and, and after I retired from the Sheriff's Office, then I went, I got to travel and spend, spend more time in Texas.

55:54 And that's when I really got invited to a whole lot of different churches. And Brother Dave it it, it was amazing to me because I'm taught my whole life is that we have the corner on the market. But I'm going into churches and I'm seeing real men and women of God that are blessing and healing the sick and they're doing it properly. And they're getting people off of crack and off of cocaine and all these things that are destroying their life. And yet I was taught, well, you have to be a member of some particular organization in order to do that.

56:34 But I'm watching the movement of God and all of these different congregations. And so that even encourages me to read more and to study more and. Do you find yourself missing having conversations with people who believe as you do? Maybe because you live in an area where there's not a whole lot of Orthodox Mormons running around, or maybe you're an active member of the LDS church or maybe even an ever Mormon, but you're really curious about what the faith teaches. Well, I have something here for you today that you might like. Now, every Thursday night at 7:00 PM Central, Taylor Smith teaches a class on gospel fundamentals from a very orthodox point of view. He will cover everything from the nature of God to some of the deeper doctrines of the faith. Now to join the class, all you got to do is click the link in this episode, show notes and on Thursdays at 7:00 PM Central and join the class.

57:26 It's an easy place where you can be as open or private as you want. It's all up to you. Again, all you guys do is on Thursday night, hit that link in this episode show notes and you can log on to the Gospel Fundamentals class taught by Taylor Smith. Thanks and I hope to see you there. And I'm never going. I can't throw away the restoration, nor would I want to because it is the foundation that I, that I. It's the strong, the rock foundation that that my life is built upon. You know, I've heard that said before, right? That that Mormonism doesn't have the, the market cornered on truth. And for the most part, I, I believe that, right? I think you can find truth in all religion. I really do.

58:12 However, I will say this, Joseph doesn't leave you a lot of wiggle room, right? Let let me rephrase that. The Lord in Joseph's first vision doesn't leave us a lot of wiggle room, right, Right, 'cause he tells Joseph, look, all the creeds, all, all, all the church's creeds are an abomination before me, right, 'cause they drop near to me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me. So Joseph does through that vision. There is a stark line I feel like is drawn right now. It's, it's one of those things you have to look at and say, OK, so there's obviously something going on here. If you believe that Joseph had the, the, the first vision and that the Lord told him the things that he told them, that doesn't leave you a lot of room for, for, for the middle ground, right? You can go search out truth in other places, but at the end of the day, it's all got to be filtered back by Mormonism, right?

59:10 Right. Well, well, and that's where my filter is going to be. I can't, I cannot not filter it through Mormonism because that's when I'm read, when I was reading the Nagamati texts, then I'm finding things in the Nagamati texts and I'm like, wait, this was buried in a clay jar in a desert for 2000 years. And it's not that they don't find it until 1949 or whatever in in the Nagamati region. And because a priest from that particular monastery, when they said these are unauthorized books, destroy them.

59:57 Then there was some priest, God bless his, God bless him that he said no. And he said, he said, I just spent 10 years writing all this stuff and you're not going to tell me to burn it. No. And he went and buried it in a clay jar in the middle of the desert. And now we've got it and I'm reading some of those things that I'm going, how did the Prophet Joseph know about it? How did he, how did he know this doctrine? How did he know that? And so when I'm looking at it, I'm just like going, man, I, I hope that I get to meet that, that monk, one of these in the sweet by and by, I guess I hope that I get to meet that monk and literally tell him thank you, right, thank you.

1:00:45 Because because he did not allow when they were telling him to burn and destroy something. He was like, no way. And so he hid stuff. And then truth was able to, to come from a different direction. And God said truth is independent in that sphere in which it was created. So when I find truth, and like you said, it's, it's, it's truth, I, I don't have to qualify whether the Buddha tells me something or, or, or one of the prophets of the restoration, then I'm just like, well, is it true or not? And that's kind of the way that I'm reading scripture.

1:01:26 And I also take it, try to take it to the source. Sure, because then God doesn't lie, nor can he lie because he says I'm the way, the truth and the life. And so so he he can't. He's the truth. And so when I find truth, then I know that the source that it comes from. Gotcha, gotcha. So I got to ask you other questions. How's your sweet wife feel about this as you're going through this now? He was leaving the church at the same time for much for different reasons. So pretty much now she is not interested in religion.

1:02:08 She just isn't gotcha. But she's spiritual. And so, so we're kind of, we're kind of leaving the corporation of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints up in Salt Lake at the same time. And, and when I was telling you the story where, where God told me do not wish or where you're not welcome. Then that next Sunday, I went out to Rocky Ridge to the to the AUB and it was brother Malcolm and I were having a conversation after church. So we're just talking and I said, well, I'm going to be coming out here and I'm going to be spending more time at Rocky Ridge. And he says, oh, that's good.

1:02:56 And then he used the words that God had used with me. And then he said Brother Tracy and I can't do his English accent, so I'm not even going to try. But but he said, Brother Tracy, you and your gun are both welcome here. Remember, God told me do not worship where you're not welcome. Right? Well, well then, then he used those very words and I hadn't told him that, but he says you and your gun are both welcome here. And so for a couple of years, I'm I'm going to church and I'm going out to Rocky Ridge and then in and watch this brother Dave. I have personally been invited during a sacrament meeting to preach at but in Rocky Ridge two times not a member of the order, but I've it Why?

1:03:54 Because God has given me. That's one of the gifts that God has given to me is the. If I go to a church, then it's not going to be uncommon for me to be called up. And, and if I can share the first time it was Brother Malcolm that called me up. And so I went up and I can see fear on his eyes and, and this is my perception because I think that he didn't know why he's calling me up other than the Spirit of God told him he had to. So God told him he had to. So I'm walking up there and before I walk to the pulpit, I'll, I go to him and I say Brother Malcolm, I consider it an honor and a privilege to be invited to stand at this pulpit and speak before the people.

1:04:44 And remember I said that a guy always give me 5 minutes at least. Well, so I knew and I had tried to prepare some things and that's weird. Why would I be getting called in Rocky Ridge to speak? But as I'm coming up to the, as I, as I walk to the public that God tells me you're not going to say what you say. You're going to say what I say. I don't know if you've ever experienced it, where, where, where things are popping out of your mouth and it's you're, you're hearing them at the same time that they're coming out. It's not, it's not a forethought. It's just like, and it's blowing my mind because I'm standing at this pulpit.

1:05:27 I'm still a member of the of the The Church of Jesus Christ of the Latter Day Saints headquartered in Salt Lake. And and then I hear coming out of my mouth that I need to apologize to the people of God because I have judged the people in a wrongful manner. And then something that that I had never experienced before, but in my ears, I'm looking over the congregation and in all of the groups of the families, there's like 700 people in this congregation.

1:06:10 And then all of a sudden I literally hear the walls of Jericho of current crumbling down. And I hear, hey, this family. And it just says, and then over here on the other side, and then it just starts happening. And it's just, it's literally shaking in my head and I'm like, how can everybody not hear this? And then after all of that, and now that it goes quiet because all the walls of Jericho would come, then God says, now you can say whatever you want to say because they can hear you. And I was like, wow. And so I gave him a message on hope and how God loved him and, and other things. But the most important thing is that because I listened to the Spirit and did what I was supposed to do. Then God made it so that the P his people were able to hear me and and I had to look at things a lot different because then all of a sudden I had started asking a question. Well, do they have the priesthood and the answer that I received, and I won't name the name, but one of my good friends out there.

1:07:20 Then God says God says that you and Ben have the exact same priesthood. And I was like what? And now my being ordained a high priest. And then when they say that it got messed up, then my lineage goes around the mess up part. So anyway, it was, it was amazing and I had to rethink things and go wait a second. The the church in Salt Lake is telling me these people are apostate, yet I'm coming to their church and they have the Spirit of God and God just told me that they have the same priesthood that I have. And so who am I to try to be judging anybody? So I have.

1:08:11 So the Lord kind of busted up the one man doctrine for you, right? There. Oh yeah, Took a sledgehammer to it, I think, right. I was glad that he was using the sledgehammer because that's how the Walls of Jericho fell down. Gotcha. OK. So at some point the study of the Torah and Jewish tradition starts to become very important for you. At what point does does this start to play in for you? Because this will segue into your book here. I, I was looking through and, and, and I started looking and it was like 2013 was when I got to personally meet Rabbi Daniel Lappin.

1:08:55 Now Rabbi, Rabbi, he's America's rabbi. He says everyone needs a rabbi, whether you're Jewish or not. And I got to meet Rabbi Lappin and, and I says Rabbi, I'm a, I'm a dumb country boy. I don't speak nor read Hebrew. And his answer to me was one word yet. And he planted a seed in me that day. And I was just like, wow. And then, then I then I got, I got the Geneva Bible and, and as I got it, then I was given an instruction that says I want you, you love the book of Proverbs. So what I would like you to do is I would like you to, to just read the book of Proverbs from the King James and from the from the Geneva Bible and just read it side by side and see if you find differences.

1:09:55 And then all of a sudden in the 3rd chapter, it said, it said it, it would, it said that you are to give of your substance to the Lord. But in the, and that's in the King James in the Geneva Bible, it says you're to give of your riches to the Lord. And I, and I got so mad and me and God, I thought that was, I thought I'd be able to punch him off the throne. I I said because they use this word substance instead of riches and the the Hebrew word when I looked it up, it was like abundance, prosperity, overflow.

1:10:41 And I got mad because I was like, so for 400 years, popes, kings, priests, apostles, prophets, magistrates, all the people that are over the churches have been able to lie to the people and say, look, Luke, Brother Dave, you give your money to God first and then God will bless you. Oh, your children can't, you can't pay your electric bill. Don't worry about that. You can't feed your children. Don't worry about that. You pay it to God first. But in the in the Hebrew it was telling me that you're I'm supposed to give from my overflow, not from my substance.

1:11:26 Which, interestingly enough, is the way it reads in the Doctrine and Covenants when it talks about time. I know so section 119 of the doctor and the covenants is going to, we're going to find that that after I enter into a covenant, then I'm to give of my increase. So my overflow. And so I there it is. And yet the church wasn't preaching that. And so I have heard from from conference on numerous occasions where someone would get up and say, oh, we didn't have any food at home. And, and I saw my dad give our last money and I was just like, that's not what the scripture says in the old scripture nor in the restored scripture.

1:12:12 It doesn't tell you to give when you're broke. It says if you're broke, then you don't have to give. And so that's going to start me. That's kind of starting me down a path. Gotcha. Where where I'm where I'm reading the Old Testament and probably the one chapter is Leviticus Chapter 23 changed my whole world because that in that chapter, it's going to give the seven holy days that are commanded. And then God uses this Hebrew term and I'm anytime I'm trying to say a Hebrew word, then I'm using my best Texas Hebrew.

1:12:53 So just be advised of that. But he says that this is going to be for my people forever or for Leolim, which is forever. And I'm like, well, how long is can you help me? How long is forever? Is that a week, a month, a millennia? Or did God really mean forever? And then God, then God says, and see, now I might get in trouble when I if I'm going on to this path, but I'll go on it anyway. And then God says, and by the way, my people will keep my Sabbaths. And that's how you're going to know who they are. If they keep my holy days and they can count to 7, then and they can understand that on the 7th day, that's the Sabbath, then then you'll know that they're my people. And so there I've got a couple of easy things that I can judge people or organizations by according to the word of God and and people say, well, the Prophet Joseph didn't change it and I'm just like going well, the Prophet Joseph also said, every time that I try to try to try to bring a new something into the mix, then y'all fall apart like a piece of glass, you know you.

1:14:26 And so I believe if he had not been murdered and martyred, the the likelihood is he would have restored the holy days and also restored the Sabbath because the, the Sabbath. And we could go into, and we're not going to go into all of the details, but that is going to be ordered by Constantine on the Roman people and then by Pope Sylvester is going to say that the, the, the venerable day of the Lord Sunday, Sol Invictus, that is the day that we're now going to keep the Sabbath.

1:15:08 And so anybody that is worshipping on Sol Invictus then on Sunday, then I can know that that particular organization hasn't quite got it right. And but I but here's the thing, I do worship on the Sabbath on Saturday and I love to go to church with my good friends on Sunday too. So sometimes my wife gets mad at me because she says will you keep 2 Sabbaths you mess up the whole weekend. So anyway, that's kind of. So that leads you into a study of of Judaism, right? Yes.

1:15:49 And now I want to pivot to the book because I feel like the book is is pretty important here. So explain the book. What is the book? The and and I want I'm going to back up just a little bit. I'm reading the New Testament and as I'm reading the New Testament, I keep on finding these phrases and they'll be phrases like for it is written. You've heard it said of Oh, don't you remember what Moses taught you? Isaiah said, Jeremiah said. And so I'm finding all of these phrases and me being a simple country boy from East Texas, I'm thinking, I've got these awesome scriptures because I'm part of the restoration and they have really good footnotes in the bottom of them. And so now I'm thinking, oh, if Jesus says for it is written all, all I have to do is go to the bottom of the page and it will tell me that Jesus just quoted from Isaiah chapter 61 verse 1 and 2 1/2.

1:17:02 And guess what I did? I went to the bottom of the page, nothing. And I went to the bottom of the page, nothing. And then God finally says to me, and once again, I don't know how people speak to the divinity or speak to deity. All I know is how we communicate me and and God communicate. He says, you want to know why there's nothing in the footnotes? And I said and I said kind of. And he says, I'm going to tell you because it's your assignment. And I was just like, really, God, I can give you.

1:17:42 I know people like Brother Dave here. I know people, I know real scholars of the gospel. I can give you the addresses, the emails and phone numbers of 30 real scholars of the Bible. They could do it better than me. And God said, no, they can't. And so Brother Dave, what I found that I haven't always known is that if God gives Dave an assignment, a mission, a calling, however you need to put it that there is nobody that has ever walked on this earth that can do your assignment. Nobody that's ever walked on the earth or ever will walk on the earth.

1:18:25 So when when people try to, to limit God and, and say, oh, there's a backup plan, I was like, there ain't a backup plan. If brother Dave doesn't do what he's assigned to do, it doesn't get done. And that's what I learned in my whole study was God gave me an assignment for whatever reason, and if I didn't do it, it just wouldn't get done. Gotcha. So. So what's the book about? What it is, is it is the intertextual relationship between the New Testament and the Old Testament plain English. How often do the authors of the New Testament quote or make reference to the Old?

1:19:17 OK. And my answer, my quick answer to you would be on my count, 1283 times on my count or about every 6.2 verses. So if you're reading and what I learned now, so every six verses that you're reading in the New Testament. So if you're in the book of Matthew, every six verses, then you can count on one of those 6 verses is going to be making a reference back to the Old Testament and oftentimes literally quoting some of the prophets in the Old Testament. And then when you get to the end of the book, when you get to the Book of Revelation, it is every 1.96 verses, so less than every two verses.

1:20:14 And so now I know that if you don't have the the Old Testament memorized, then you have no business even opening the Book of Revelation. Because you're probably operating with arithmetic, and the Book of Revelation is calculus. OK, so you, before we go that deep, I, I want to talk about your process and how you, how you managed to put this all together, right? Because some, as you stated, there's, there's literal quoting, right? We get that with Jesus in the in the desert when he's being tempted, right?

1:20:58 He quotes scripture at the adversary to repel him. But then there's subtleties, right? Where the subtleties it's referencing back to the Old Testament very subtly. How did you pick up on the on that subtlety? I mean, what, what, what was it that that you were able to sit down and look at the text and go, Oh yeah, that references back here, the Old Testament and whatever book, whatever verse. How'd you how'd you get there? Through reading the transcript too many times and one of the gifts I think that God has given me is that I can recall things.

1:21:39 And so now if I know that you're going to be preaching A sermon at church and I'm going to the church, I might be scared. And one of the reason why I'm scared is comes like Brother Dave's going to connect a dot that I missed. I'm not that I'm not that sharp, I'm just curious how you got there is all. And so, So what I did was because I'm very simple and I'm thinking if, if I can ask a question, someone else has to have asked that question. OK. And so I start going, oh, So what I'm thinking about has probably already been done. And so I start doing some searches and different things and I find I'll find a scholar that did and, and found the like a 500 verses that he connected in the back of the Bible dictionary. Then it's got, it's got like maybe 30 verses that are showing a connection between the Old and the New Testament. And so I would find these little list of things and but I wasn't finding a comprehensive list anywhere. And then someone would come along and they would ask me questions like I, I had the a lady and she sent me a text one day and she says, can you tell me which book of the Bible that Yeshua quotes from the most?

1:23:08 So which Bible, which book of the Bible does the Old Testament is Jesus going to be quoting from? And so immediately my, you know, I'm scholarly man and I know the scriptures. My immediate response was, oh, that has to be Deuteronomy and God said what? You need to go check the sources. And anytime that I hear those kind of things that I know that I got the wrong answer. So I start, I start doing a study and, and I find that the book of Psalms is the number one book that Jesus is going to quote from then Deuteronomy, then Exodus, then Isaiah. And from that, from that exercise that's going to take me down, down a road that's going to add another 100 verses to my, to my whole process.

1:24:06 But when, when I first started in it, I got a book and I was excited because I thought that it was good. And God said, print what you've got. And I said it hadn't been edited. It's not ready. God said print it now. So I print it and two days after I sent it to the printer, then the void, the word comes to my mind is like, hey, how many times did the Passover? How many times is the Passover mentioned? And I went, I never asked that question. Well, God said, well, I'm asking you the question, how many times?

1:24:46 So what I found was that the Passover is mentioned 31 times in the New Testament. And of the 31 times I had two references. And so before my first printing of the smaller one volume, before I even had it printed, I knew that I had to add 29 more new verses. And they got And then God says, well, hey, since you're doing that, why don't you do the holy days too? And I was like, so now I I'm looking for holy days through all the text and I'm reading the text and I'm finding, and that's going to add about 100 more verses to what I have.

1:25:32 And then I'm thinking I'm, I'm coming to, I'm coming to a crew. We, I've got it. It's a little bit thicker now. I'm excited, I'm ready to be done. And then then God says, hey, remember those books that they call the books of the Apocrypha? And I said, yeah, so you want to know whether they're Scripture or not. And I said, kind of. And so why don't you go read all of the books of the Apocrypha and see how many times that they are quoted quoted in the New Testament.

1:26:13 And on my count, 402 times the books of the Apocrypha are quoted in the New Testament. So whether I believe it's Scripture or not, the authors of the New Testament counted those books that were in my 1611 King James Bible as Scripture. OK, so, so let's unpack this a little bit and and then there's there's a little bit of general pushback I want to give here. J Bush So it sounds like your process was kind of twofold, right? You would take the littler lists and you would go through those, right?

1:26:53 Yes. And then then those littler lists would be something somebody else did, another biblical scholar or something like that. Right. And then you would also get things just as you were, as we would expect, right? You get little droplets of, of inspiration or revelation saying go look this up or, or scope that up when you encountered stuff by a, by a biblical scholar. And look, one of the things I that drew me to Mormonism that I love about Mormonism is that it's a very holistic view of the entirety of the Gospels, right? It is, it is God's dealing with people on, on, on the macro. And so, but because of that, and that's what I love about the restoration.

1:27:37 However, there's been a lot of of Joseph call them sectarians, right? Sectarian Christianity that has focused on one part, right? And that's really made it their thing, right? So Baptists are all about baptism by immersion, right? The Catholics are all about papal succession and, and on and on we go. How were you able then to take somebody else's list and go, OK, is this true or is this not? Because look, even I come with my slants, you come with your slants. Slants are out there, right? And we do, you know, if you're, if, if you're honest, you do your best to get rid of them, but they'll always come through, right?

1:28:21 Just part of being human. How was it you were able to look at those different lists, so to speak, those different that, that, that, that scholarly work done by other biblical scholars and, and say, OK, that one's good, that one's bad. What? What did you use as criteria for nailing those down? So my criteria was in English, if it was a five word spread, if I had five words connected, then I would call that a quote. If I had less than 5, then I would call that an illusion because it was alluding to something. But it it might do it with two words, but you could really tell what it was.

1:29:04 And then I also had an echo, and they echo sometimes. There are times when I would have to, to give you say 3 chapters of Ezekiel in order to, to get what the New Testament author had distilled into one sentence. But in order for you to see that that was distilled, you would have to read those 3 or 4 chapters. And then when you read them in light of that verse, you were able to see and you're like, wow. Well, and now that wouldn't, that would make sense, right? Because the people in the New Testament, their scripture is the Old Testament, right? They have no idea they're living in new Scripture, so to speak, until well after the time of Jesus, right? And so you would expect them to be able to take complex ideas that are found in the Old Testament and if they understand them, distill them down to where other people who were familiar with that Old Testament text would understand the illusion that he is making in regards to the previous text. Is that kind of what you're getting at? Yes.

1:30:16 And so, so I, I had three different levels. And when I was looking at it, then I would look at it. And if that scholar said, well, he was referring to this, then I'm that I might have to spend a week on it because I'm not seeing it. And usually if I'm not seeing it, it means I just haven't studied enough. And so I will study more and more and then I'm getting deeper into them. And then all of a sudden there will be that moment of inspiration where I'll go, Oh my, there it is. It's just so plain. So there are things in my 4 volume work of the whole New Testament that I called Echoes that now sometimes I'll go back and look at them and I'll go, that's not an echo, that's definitely an illusion. This is an absolute.

1:31:08 But it's because I've gained more knowledge and more wisdom and understanding as I'm going through. So the format that I did is, is I've literally got it from starting in Matthew. And then I'll lay out the and I'm using two different translations. So if we're in Matthew chapter 5 verse 48, then then, and I'm showing you that one, then I'm going to give you Matthew, Matthew 548 and give you 2 translations of it and then show you where in the Old Testament and give you those verses. So it's not a list, it's actually a total reference.

1:31:51 So if you're preparing the lesson or you're, you're teaching your family wherever you're at and you're going through and there's a part of the New Testament that you're studying, then you'll be able to just go to that those verses and go, oh, well, there it is. And, and have the verses where you can read the New Testament verse and then the Old Testament verse. And so it's, it's a reference and I think that now I'm becoming more familiar with the text. So a few months ago I was, I went to a church service and the, the pastor that was preaching said he's, he was quoting from the book of James.

1:32:41 And in the book of James, he said it, James talked about being a double minded person. And immediately I was just like, Oh my gosh, that's second in Kings chapter 18. How long will you halt between two opinions? And so, so sometimes that's why I get scared sometimes when I'm going to church, because now my, my ears are tuned where I can hear things and, and sometimes I'll connect them and immediately I'll write it down and then go home. And when I find that I've already got it in there, then I'm like, Oh, I'm glad that I got that. But there have been times when when I had missed a verse.

1:33:23 And my, my assumption is, is that there are going to be scholars and students of the Scriptures that long after I'm gone, that we'll be going, yeah, he was pretty good, but he missed all of these. And I hope that happens because then because then I know that the, the, the connection between what we call the, the new and the Old Testament, it's coming together. And, and in the words of Ezekiel, so I'm a, I'm a use Ezekiel, I would say. And so they can be one in my hand. They could cut the, the two, the two stick can come back together. The broken stick can come back together and be one in the hand of God.

1:34:11 And so that is in a salt, small and subtle way, I believe that that is my mission. And my magnum opus is to to give to the students of the Bible something that's going to, to allow them to connect the old from the new. Because the what I learned here, here's another thing that I learned is they assume the the authors of the New Testament assume and presume that if you're reading that text, the text of the New Testament that you have the Old Testament. Watch this memorized. I didn't say you've read it five times that you haven't memorized.

1:34:56 So literally when Jesus is on the cross, then he can he quote, he can quote from from Psalms 82 is where I'm going to say I'm telling you the wrong one. I'm a he's quoting from song 22. Sometimes my brain doesn't work so, so well on the spot, but he's quoting and all he does is he gives the first line of it. And then everybody that heard him utter what he had or uttered, in their mind, they would have completed that song and they would have seen that it was talking about everything that he was going through right at that moment.

1:35:37 Gotcha. So here. And that makes sense. Now let me push back here gently on a few things. OK, right. Because I, I do want to get your response to these and I want to make sure also that I'm not putting words in your mouth here. So are you really of the opinion that no one should read the New Testament until they have the Old Testament memorized? No, no, no, no, no, no, no. But. But the authors of the of the New Testament assumed and presumed that if you had their texts, their writings, that you already did. Well, yeah, because that would be the logical assumption because they're not planning on taking an awful with the Gentiles until Paul comes around, right.

1:36:20 So the idea was in the thought process was well they should already have this memorized, right? This should be theirs. So I I understand the assumed familiarity from. So. So that is the presumption that that I think we don't know. And maybe that's one of the reason why God gave me the call, because we don't have that familiarity. Just in general, even within the Restoration, when we're taught from the time that we're in Primary, we're taught as little kids that we're supposed to read the scriptures and understand them, but yet do we understand them? And so my work is, is connecting those dots so that when the student is coming forward or preachers preparing a sermon in whatever church that they're in, that they're going to be able to connect the dots and help God's people be able to see things that they might not be able to see otherwise.

1:37:19 Gotcha. Excuse me one the other place that I wanted, and I want to make sure I'm understanding you correctly. You said you judged the the Apocrypha and I love the Apocrypha. In fact, if you're a fan of the Apocrypha, I couldn't recommend highly enough to get Kim Peterson's book Mormonism and the Apocrypha. Great stuff in there. You said you could judge a book in the Apocrypha as being true or not based on if it references the Old Testament. Is that really how you made that that? That no, no, no. What God said to me is, do you want to know? Because we can read the Doctor of Covenants where God told Joseph, told the prophet, you don't need to. You don't have to translate this part right? It's got good stuff in it, but but you don't need to retranslate it or or however the language is is in there and so so.

1:38:17 Basically, God says read it with discernment, right? Yes, and so I'm reading it from I'm I'm thinking I'm done. And then Heavenly Father's telling me you need to you. I'm going to show you whether or not it is my word or not. And that's when all of a sudden, over about a 2 1/2 year period, then I'm studying all of those books that were in the 1611 King James Bible. Which there were some books in the Apocrypha that were in there. Yes, there's about 15 of those books that that are taken out in the late 1800s. So if you get a Bible before 1884, it will have the books that we call the Apocrypha in it. After 1885, they're not going to be in it. And one of the reasons is because because the Bible Society in England and the Bible Society of America wanted to get the Bible in every single house.

1:39:22 That was their goal, which was a good and a righteous goal. But but our, our good, our good friend Martin Luther and the boys, when they were doing the that their translation, he didn't like some of the things that were written. So, so he took a bunch of these books out of their context and put them in between the Old and the New Testament. And so then, then 200 years, 300 years later, now you and I are trying to print Bibles and get them into the hands of as many people as I can. And I come to you and I say, Brother Dave, if we we can print the New Testament in the Old Testament, if we cut out the Apocrypha, that will save us thousands of dollars and we can print, we can print 10,000 more Bibles than we would have otherwise.

1:40:19 From my heart, my heart still may be pure. And I'm still trying to do the right thing. But that's when it was taken out, I believe, economic for economic reasons. Sure. No look and and look. I want to say this right. This is why seems like I I come back to this a lot on this program. What's the unintended consequence right, yes. And you look, we all know what the what the road to hell is paved with right? Good. Intentions, Good intentions. Yes, Sir. Right. And so sometimes I, I always feel like these are good places to be. Like I wouldn't go seeking to change a whole bunch, right? Because even though you don't know what it's for, doesn't mean it's not useful, right?

1:41:04 Right. Or won't be. Look, it's kind of like the toothpick in a Swiss Army knife. How often are you going to use it? Probably not very often, But when you need it, you need it. Right when I get that piece of beat stuck in in my tooth or something, then that's that little toothpick is really handy. Yeah, yeah. And so I, I've always said that about the gospel, just because it looks like it's something superfluous to you or extra, doesn't mean you should just get rid of it, right? Yes. That they're in struggle with it a little bit before you seek to just get rid of what it is that makes you feel icky or you're not happy with or something like that. And I think that that's what I was being taught was that I had made some assumptions because it's not in my Bible that I really don't need it.

1:41:52 And yet when I was reading the book of Maccabees and Ezra's and I'm, I'm reading some of these things, then I'm going, Oh my gosh, now I can understand that Jesus actually celebrated Hanukkah, the festival of lights. And I now I know what that's all about. And, and so without the books of the Apocrypha, I have a four year silence in between the Old and the New Testament. So there's a four year, a 400 year gap from Malachi to Matthew when you when you pull out the the park. And now I'm I'm losing so many things and I can't study the New Testament because I don't have that.

1:42:44 That is part of the Apocrypha as part of my Canon, and yet over 400 times those writers are going to reference those books in the Apocrypha. So my conclusion, people can come to whatever conclusion they want to, but my conclusion was that if they that the authors of the New Testament believe that the books of the Apocrypha were yes, indeed scripture. Yep. All right. Now I got just three more questions I want to wrap up here with. First question is this, What was the hardest part of writing this book?

1:43:26 Thinking that I was done and then God would write with that there. There's probably four or five times when I thought I was done and then then someone then you would say I am. I'm a use you as just in a general sense. Then then all of a sudden brother Dave sends me this text and asked me some silly question, which isn't really silly. It's an awesome question. And then all of a sudden that's going to lead me down a rabbit trail that's going to take me another six months and add 25 or 30 verses that I couldn't see the connection because you hadn't asked me the question yet. And when I'm coming to the end, then all of a sudden I had set a date where my research was over.

1:44:11 I it was an arbitrary date. It was March the 2nd of this year, and that's Texas Independence Day and so. Of course I did, yes. So, so, so that's why I picked that day. And then a month before then my good friend Joshua Erickson, he starts sending me these verses from the Book of Enoch. And I'm just like going all right, no, I don't have that. And the he keeps on sending me verses and sending me verses. So finally I'm like, OK, I think I need to look at the book of Enoch and and look at those scriptures. But in Enoch are in Matthew chapter 22, Jesus, he says, he says, you do air you don't understand the scripture. And then he makes reference to the book of Enoch. So just because it lost favor in the in the 1st and 2nd century with the church fathers, then if I have to judge between the church fathers in the early centuries or Jesus, I'm going with Jesus.

1:45:28 Yeah, every time. And so I was like, wait a second, Jesus said the book of Enoch is Scripture. Maybe I need to pay attention to the Scripture. And I'll just give one example that brought me about 70 new verses that were not in the work before. So just never ending. Yes, but but I think that we're really getting close to to having connected those dots. But in in John chapter 14, verse 2 and 3 and that that's the verses where where Jesus says in my father's house there are many mansions. If it were not so, I would have told you, I now go to prepare a place for you.

1:46:11 So that's it. That's verse two and three. And I find that Jesus is quoting verse 3 is going to be from from Enoch chapter 45. And then because now I'm looking at many mansions and that that there are many principalities and all these other things and that that heaven isn't that we're not just dealing with heaven or hell that he says that there's a lot of different levels here. And then I'm studying deeper and in chapter 41 is is where Jesus is getting verse 2 and in John 14 two, so, so John 14 two is making reference to Enoch chapter 41.

1:47:02 John 14 three is making reference to Enoch chapter 45. And I'm like, wow, it's so whether people like it. I have to take the Book of Enoch seriously now. Right. And it, and it's also in the, it's also in the Ethiopian Bible. And so that's the oldest text of the Bible that is in existence. And it has, it has some books that that we don't, we don't have the, the book of Jubilees and the book of Jasher and, and the book of Enoch. We don't have them as part of our Canon. And yet Jesus had them as part of his Canon of scripture and quoted from those books and and that connection. What I was seeing is that there are so many things that are not canonized scripture and yet they are as much scripture as anything that you can imagine.

1:48:11 And what does God say in the beginning of doctor covenants in section one in the preamble where he says whether it's by my mouth of the mouth of my services is the same. So throughout history, when a holy man has been moved upon by the Holy Spirit, the in the Hebrew, the Ruach Hakodesh, when he's been moved on by that, then what that individual writes in their journal are are places before the people of God is scripture. And I'm finding that there is scripture all over the place in the Dead Sea Scrolls, in the Nagamadi texts and. So, so definitely the hardest part was continuing to have to go back and dissect all that.

1:48:58 Yes, and and thinking I'm through when, when God says, well, you're not quite through. I've got some more things, but after I did the Enoch, then I'm I've got in, in the Hebrew peace Shalom. So I'm now getting Shalom Shalom. Isaiah says that that is translated as perfect peace, but it's actually Shalom, Shalom. And so I'm getting that in my heart right now. And and with that perfect piece is coming, then I'm going we've got and so I'm hoping that you that you're not going to ask me a question that's going to send me down another two year rabbit trail. Actually, if you did then that, that would be wonderful. But all right, so with that, what was what was one instant where you really saw the Lord's hands helping you in what you were doing, like the one that sticks out to you the most. The OK, I would say I'm going to and I and I said you, I've got a couple of videos that I'm now doing and, and I did one on Mary and Elizabeth in there and the connection of the ark of the covenant to to Mary.

1:50:20 And that's kind of a fun one. But the thing that was that was most impactful for me was when Yeshua, when Jesus said you're an adulterous generation, you Vipers. And I mean, he's calling them names. And then then he says, you want to sign. And I'm talking, I'm reading this in my texts. So I'm going to deliver it as as he if, as if he were from Texas. He said, you want to sign? OK, I'll give you a sign. Here's the sign, the sign of Jonah. Just as Jonah was in the heart of the earth for three days and for three nights, so shall the Son of Man be.

1:51:06 Oh, all right, now I need to. Just as Jonah was in the belly of the fish for three days, and for. Three. I knew what you meant. Yeah. So shall the Son of Man be in the heart of the earth for three days and for three nights now. I'm taught my whole life that Jesus is on the cross on Friday and he's getting up before the sun comes up on Sunday. Hallelujah. And I, we're excited, but I'm a simple country boy from East Texas. I can count to 3 and Jesus says 3 days and three nights. And if he doesn't accomplish that, he also says he's the way, the truth and the life. So I know he can't lie so.

1:51:53 So he's got to be in the grave for three days or three nights. But if he's getting into the grave on Friday, then all I'm going to be able to get out of this proposition is 2 nights, one day. And if that is the case, then Gee, I need to find me another Mashiac. I need to find me another Messiah because he lied to me and that would make him a false prophet. If if what I was taught my whole life and I remember in conference here, Elder Bruce R Mcconkey get up and say well as the Jews calculated time. Then Jesus was in the grave on Friday, Saturday and Sunday 3 days.

1:52:41 And I'm just like, Elder Mcconkey, you're awesome in your Scriptorian, but I can count to 3. And Jesus said three days or three nights. And because I've now been studying the Old Testament so much, then I mentioned before Leviticus chapter 23, that may be the chapter that changed my whole world. Brother Dave, here's what I found out. All the sudden I found out that you can have two Sabbaths in one week. And that changed my whole world because then all the sudden Jesus, I can put him on.

1:53:22 OK, I'm not trying to put him on the cross, but he's on the cross on Wednesday, what we call Wednesday. And I'm going to count it out. Can I count it out for you? Sure. I want you to see it. So in the, in the the way that God calculates time is he starts a new day at sunset. Because if you look in your Genesis, it says in the evening, in the morning was the first day. So it starts in the evening and then the morning is the first day. So, so watch this. He's on what we call Wednesday and, and they have to get in preparation for the Sabbath. They have to get him off the cross. And the Sabbath that we're going to talk about is the the Sabbath of unleavened Bread, which is just after the Passover.

1:54:08 So, so now we've got him going into the grave on Thursday night and Thursday day, and then Friday night, Friday day. And now the women can actually go to the market and buy the herbs that they're going to anoint him with. And then we got Saturday night and Saturday day and watch this, that as the SUN is going down, the sun is going down over the mountains in Jerusalem. Then the SON is getting up out of the grave and people say, well, we don't know exactly when he was, when he was resurrected. I know exactly when he was resurrected because he told me 3 days and three nights.

1:55:00 And so at the end of the Sabbath on that Sunday, then he would have been resurrected just like he said after three days and three nights. And Paul is going to tell me that he's going to present himself as the first fruits of all who were dead. And guess what? The day after the weekly Sabbath during Unleavened bread is it's the, it's the waving of the first fruits, OK. And so Jesus, he fulfills everything right on time, just like he said he was going to do it. And so when people say, well, you can't know when he's coming back, well, I can't know, but I can know the time and the season, right? It's and so for me, as I was studying, it became so meaningful when I was able to totally connect the dots from the old to the New Testament and make that document into one document in the hands of God's people. And, and now because I can show you that Jesus was in the grave for three nights and three days, then I get to keep my Savior. And for me, that is very important because I had to hang that on the wall, on a shelf, as they say, for years and years until I read a chapter in the Old Testament and it answered all, It answered so many

1:56:32 questions. So my, my word to everybody is as you read the scriptures, then God is able to give you more information as you're studying, as you're having questions, then read the scriptures because that is the word that in the word is going to be the place that you're going to find the answers to all your questions. And I'm simple enough to believe that the Holy Scriptures, all of the scriptures from the beginning of time through the restoration, will lead you back to the place that you want to. Go. All right, So last question here.

1:57:13 What do you hope people get out of the book? What as you've written this book, what's your goal for the book? What do you hope it does for people? I hope that is, is connecting the scriptures together and, and being a reference for, for the, the person sitting in the Pew, for all those people that are preparing Sunday school lessons, that are, are preparing gospel doctrine lessons for prophets, apostles, evangelists, for everybody that is teaching the people of God that they will now have a resource that they can tap into and, and have easy access to connecting the dots between the old and the new.

1:58:00 And, and as we understand the old covenant, then we're able to understand the renewed covenant better. And when you're, if you've got the Book of Mormon or the doctor of the covenants as part of your, of your Canon of scripture, I'm going to suggest you need to understand the Old Testament because you can't read or understand your Book of Mormon properly until you really understand the Old Testament. And so it's, God gave us all of these scriptures for our purpose. And my, my goal and I believe my magnum opus that I have created is that I'm going to give an access where even the casual student of the scripture will be able to connect the dots. That's awesome.

1:58:54 Well man, where you said the books not quite out yet. Is there a way that people could pre-order? You know what, if I were, if I were a good marketing person, then then there would be, I am going to, I've got it at the editors and, and one of the editors, they're, they're reformatting and putting it in a better format. I had printed out about 50 copies of it and, and it was a three volume and as soon as and I sold those really quick and then through the year, then I had to add another addendum to it. And then when I added the addendum, then over the last two years, I've added more.

1:59:41 And so, so now it's actually going to be a four volume set of scripture starting at Matthew and going all the way to the Book of Revelation. The volume 4 is actually just the Book of Revelation. Gotcha. And, and it, it literally connects so many, so many places where you're able to see the, the, these people that are writing that Matthew, Mark, Luke and John that they. That they were quoting the prophets of the Old Testament. Jesus loved to quote the Psalms. I mean, he's quoting the Psalms all the time. And now you'll be able to see when Jesus quotes the Psalm or as you alluded to earlier, you'll be able to see when he's dealing with the devil, which verses that he's actually throwing back at the devil.

2:00:35 Because because that is one of the, the things that was so powerful to me is if the devil is attacking you, then if I'm following what Jesus did, then what I need to do is I need to know the scriptures well enough so that when the devil attacks me that I can quote the scripture right back to him and put it back on him. And that's, that's what Jesus did. And so hopefully my work will, will help people. And I know that you gave me an extra month and I told you that I was going to have it ready and, and I didn't quite get it there, but we will have it ready soon. And now I'm waiting on the the editor smart people that are smarter than me to make it look pretty. If someone wanted to buy APDF version from you, could they do that almost.

2:01:31 Almost, OK, almost but but but if they I'm probably I'm probably the most terrible marketing person in the whole wide world. It's all right because, because I should have had these things ready. And yes, I will have it in PDF and it's also going to be, we're going to be putting it on Amazon where it will be print on demand. And so I'm loving that because now I'm not going to have to, to have my whole garage full of, of books and, and people will be able to get it easy. And I, I'm, they're going to be, we're going to be putting it on Kindle and, and on other PDF versions.

2:02:15 And, and so my goal really is hopefully I'll be able to cover my cost, but my goal is really to get this in the hands of the people of God. Gotcha. Gotcha. OK. What's your SO? Couple months probably tops. Yes, that that is that is my goal before the before the summer ends before before we get to the World Series, in the we get to the the days of summer are over, then hope, hopefully I'll have it all ready to roll and I'll keep you advised of that. Yeah, keep me advised of that cause what I can do is I can make an announcement so people can go find the book. So what's the name of your YouTube? Channel it is Tracy Roberts 138 but it's Tracy Roberts pastor of prosperity.

2:03:08 That was a, a, a title that my good friend, Reverend Jackson, he was like, man, you're the pastor of prosperity. And he just said it one time. And I was like, OK. And so it's stuck. And so if you're looking up the pastor of prosperity, Tracy Roberts, then it will, it'll bring you to, to a few teachings that that I've done throughout the time. And, and so it's, it's a, that that's where you can find me most also Tracy J Roberts on Facebook. If someone were sending me a friend request. And then then I usually ask, I sent a message back to people and I was like, how do I know you? And if they say, well, I was, listen, I was watching Brother Dave's Mormonism Mormon renegade. And, and so I'll say, OK, then what? I'm sure we're friends and then so sounds. Good.

2:04:10 Well, Tracy, that was awesome, man. I appreciate it. Keep me informed on when that book drops and we'll be in touch. All right, Hey, can I just, can I just leave you with, I'm not going to leave you with an ironic blessing, but can I just leave you with my sign off real quick? Sure, this has been with Tracy Roberts. God bless you as you bless others and remember to live your life in purpose and on purpose always. I love y'all and Brother Dave, I love you too and thank you for allowing me this opportunity to speak to the people of God. No sweat. Stick around for 5 minutes. All right, all right, all right. Bye everybody.