May 31, 2025

Episode #186: Understanding The Relationship Between The Old & New Testaments W/Tracy Roberts

Show Notes
Transcript

On this episode I have Tracy Roberts on the podcast to talk about a book he has recently wrote about the relationship between the Old & New Testaments. During the course of our conversation we talk about Tracys childhood growing up LDS in Texas, his LDS Mission, his time at BYU, how he met his wife, and his faith journey that led him to search out truth no matter where it was. From there the conversation shifts to talking about his new book that illustrates everywhere in the New Testament where the writers either directly quote from the or make reference to the Old Testament, and wrap it all up by talking about why that subject is important to us as followers of the Savior.

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The.
You're listening to the Mormon

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Renegade podcast.
Tracy, what's going on, man?

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Dave, it's so good to see you.
I am excited.

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This is actually the first
podcast that I have ever

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participated in, and so thank
you for inviting me.

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I know that I've looked at some
of your other podcasts that

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you've actually had some so kind
of important people on, and so I

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appreciate that you all have me
on here.

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People, they're all important
people.

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So no, dude, I'm just happy
you're here.

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We met a couple of different
times at at some of Joshua

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Erickson stuff.
Shout out to Josh and just kind

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of hit it off.
And then Josh told me you were

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writing a book and, and dude, I
just thought, you know, that's

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it's an interesting premise and
we'll get into the book in a

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minute, but I'm just glad you're
on, man.

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I I'm looking forward to this
conversation.

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Well, I am thankful to be on and
and I'm guessing from the title

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of your podcast that that people
won't be offended if I if I tell

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them things like that.
When, when I had a holy man,

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when I was a young man, put his
hands on prophet of God, put his

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hands on my head and some people
call him patriarchs, but this

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was like a real holy man.
So anyway, and tell me the one

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of the things that God wanted me
to do is he says you are to

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preach, teach and expound the
gospel to the inhabitants of the

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earth.
And because of the Internet and

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how we got technology, then this
may be a literal, A literal

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fulfillment of that prophecy all
those many years ago that was

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put upon my head.
Interesting.

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So dude, when?
Like, OK, so news flash, your

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accent gives it away.
You're not from Utah, right?

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Where, where, where, Where did
you grow up?

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Originally, I am, in my dad's
words, I'm a Texan born and a

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Texan bred, and when I die, I'll
be a Texan dead.

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And so I grew up.
I was born in Dyess Air Force

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Base in Abilene out in West, TX.
And then after my dad got out of

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the Air Force, then we moved to
the Houston area.

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And then after we were there for
some years that we moved up to

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the country and I got to be
right next to where my granny

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lived.
And so I had family that even if

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I wanted to kind of go astray, I
probably couldn't have because I

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was from a small town and
everybody knew everybody's

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business.
Dude, I grew up in a very small

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town.
I shouldn't say grew up.

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I spent my teenage years in a
very small town in western Idaho

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and it was back during, you
know, the, the late 80s to to

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mid 90s, right?
And like, I look at the stuff I

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did as a kid now and I'm like,
oh, kids just aren't getting

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away with that.
They're going to be put on like

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4 what watch list if they did
half the crap I did, right?

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And you know, like we all drove,
we all drove home, you know,

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drove around with shotguns in
our trucks and left them at

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school.
And that, you know, it was fine,

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right?
But very small town, Much the

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same way.
If I stood up, I could bank that

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somebody who's going to hold me
accountable is going to hear

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about it before I ever get a
chance to explain.

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Right, You, you, they're going
to know that you got in trouble

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before you get home that night.
Yeah, absolutely, 100% yes, yes.

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And and I look back on that and
at the time it drove me nuts,

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but looking back on it now, I
kind of miss those times, right.

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Just kind of back close knit
community and that sort of

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thing.
So, but so were you raised

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Mormon I.
Was I am a 6th generation

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Mormon.
My children are seven generation

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Mormons on both sides.
And so our people go back to the

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to the beginning of the of the
restoration, which which is part

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of my story, but and I served a
mission for the church, the the

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Brighamite branch.
I'm a the corporation up in Salt

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Lake is the gotcha.
I don't, I don't.

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And and when I I don't know if
you want me to get into stories

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or Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, let's
just what?

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What?
What when when you said you were

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raised Mormon now were you guys
like family home evening every

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Monday night kind of Mormons,
you know, scripture study

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everyday kind of Mormons I.
Mean what are we?

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Talking here.
No family home.

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Evening was Monday Night
Football.

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There's nothing wrong with that.
No, I, I mean, I'm not joking

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what I'm saying that the whole
family was watching Monday Night

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Football and so that was the
closest we got to.

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But my dad, he, he came to
church some and, and but my

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mother, she was from Cache
Valley up in Hiram, Utah.

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And so her, her people were way
back going to the beginning of

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the restoration and they, they
came from England and they came

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from Norway.
And so, so I, I have a, a long,

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a long line of people that are,
that are in the restoration, my,

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my children.
So on my wife's side, John

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Solomon Fulmer was legal counsel
to the Prophet Joseph.

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And he was one of the men that
the night before the martyrdom,

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it says that Joseph laid on the
floor and he put his arms out

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and two men used his biceps for
pillows, basically.

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And John Solomon Fulmer was one
of those individuals that that

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did it.
And he was a his story is a

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great story, but.
Was your dad in the restoration?

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Was he raised?
No, no, but he had read Zane

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Grey and in his Zane Grey then
he, he learned about Mormons and

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he would, he decided before he
even knew anything about that he

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was going to marry a Mormon.
And guess what?

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He married a Mormon and and so
he was.

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He was in and out of the church,
but.

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That's interesting because
there's a couple books that Zen

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Gray has.
I'm thinking writers of the

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Purple Sage in particular, where
he doesn't play, paint Mormonism

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in a very pleasant light.
What?

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Well, whatever he was saying
apparently got my dad's

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attention.
And then what?

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And then when he was on a bus
being transferred from one duty

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station to another, and my
mother was going to to work for

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Frontier Airlines in Denver,
they rode on a bus and and spent

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a day or so.
And all the sudden a few months

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later, they started
corresponding and they got

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married.
So.

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So my parents got together by a
bus ride across the country.

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Nice, nice.
So, but, and then your mom left

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Utah and then lived, you know,
married your dad and went to

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Texas.
Yes, gotcha.

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And so, so one of the things
down in Texas, you can tell when

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church gets out because every
church in the area, the parking

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lot will be full and then every
parking lot at every restaurant

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in town will be full.
And then you know, church is

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out.
And so you want to you want to

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get there before everybody.
So you want to get out of church

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quick and go to the restaurant.
And so anytime my dad would come

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to church then I would always be
happy because that meant we were

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going to go out to eat after
church, so.

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I get it, I get it.
Awesome.

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So now what was your what was
your growing up years like in in

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the church?
Did you was it a good experience

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for you?
I mean.

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It was, and I also, there was a,
a lot of pretty girls that lived

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up in Tyler, TX cause states
are.

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And so I might have had some
influence from, from really

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pretty girls that, that
encouraged me to go on a

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mission.
And so my motives may not have

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been as pure as can be, but when
I went on my mission, I went on

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my mission for 18.
I was called for an 18 month

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mission and then and then three
months after I was started my

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mission, they, they changed the
changed it back to two years.

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And so now all the missionaries
that were out got to pick

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whether they were going to stay
on a mission or you could go

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home at 18 months just like you
were called it.

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Know what?
Nobody would blink an eyeball at

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you.
And it was good.

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But all of the missionaries in
the New Zealand Christchurch

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mission.
So I, I went down to New

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Zealand.
It was a hard, yeah, I mean

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terror.
It's a hard thing to have to go

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down to the one of the most
beautiful islands in the whole

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world, but.
Rough duty, but you pulled it

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off.
Yes, I was able to do it.

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But I saw all of these
missionaries were out and they

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were fasting and praying and
they were in turmoil and and I

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was just like going are you
kidding me?

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Tracy, your camera seems to be
safe.

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It, it, I was just noticing that
too.

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I'll, I'll tighten it up and
hopefully we'll.

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OK, all right.
And, and so they were, they were

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going through turmoil and me
being smart, thinking I'm

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smarter, maybe even smarter than
God sometimes, which isn't a

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good plan to be in.
But so I, I set up and talk to

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God.
And I don't know how other

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people were talk to or refer to
God, but I know how that we talk

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and we have conversations from
time to time.

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And so I said, here's the deal.
So I'm laying out this argument

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that I think is a ironclad
argument.

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I'm a great debater.
I so I'm, I'm making the best

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argument as possible.
And I said God, I'm going to set

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up and I'm going to acknowledge
some things about you.

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You are, you know everything.
You're omnipresent, omniscient,

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you know the first from the
last, the beginning and the end.

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You're all of that.
And I acknowledge it.

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I also acknowledge that one of
your prophets, a holy man, put

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his hands upon my head and gave
me a blessing for my life.

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So here's what I'm going to do,
God.

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I'm going to go read my
patriarchal blessing and if you

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tell me to stay on my mission
for an extra 6 months, then I'll

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stay on my mission for an extra
6 months.

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If you didn't say anything about
it, then what?

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Watch, I'm going to go home just
like your prophet told me to do.

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He called me for 18 months and
then we'll call 18 months and

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we'll be good.
So I think I I'm smart.

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OK, pause right there for a
second because I want to I want

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to revisit something because
this second time it's come up

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here in in the first few
minutes.

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So it's obviously an important
part of your your, your journey

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here.
You talk this holy man that you

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refer to.
Is that a state patriarch?

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Is that what you're?
Talking about yeah, he'd be a

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state patriarch, but this one,
his name was Moroni Hamblin.

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And he was one of those men that
when he walked into the

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building, you knew, you knew the
presence of God was walking in

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with him.
So when I call him a holy man,

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he is a state patriarch.
But whether he had been in the

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Restoration or not in the
Restoration, he was a holy man.

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So I guess, I guess that's my
clarification on it, is that he

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was really a man of God without.
That that blessing that you got

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was your patriarchal blessing.
Yes, and it was.

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And so now I'm reading it and I,
and I'm reading the first page

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and I, I get through the first
page and I turn it over and

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there's only five more
paragraphs and I'm smiling.

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God, I've read this document 100
times and I know it doesn't say

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anything about staying on a
mission.

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So I that's why I thought I was
pretty slick.

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So I keep on reading and I read
another paragraph, four more to

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go.
And then all of a sudden there's

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this one phrase and it says you
are to bring to pass the

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immortality and eternal life of
as many as possible.

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And I said, I guess I'll be
staying on my mission for

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another six months.
And God said that is correct.

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00:13:59,840 --> 00:14:05,680
And so, so after that, when I
had about four more months left

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to go, then my mission president
said, I want you to stay on.

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00:14:09,560 --> 00:14:11,480
I need you to stay one more
month.

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So I extended my my mission
seven months from my original

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calling.
So I may be the only one in the

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00:14:21,600 --> 00:14:24,120
whole world that, well maybe
not.

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But anyway, I thought I was
pretty cool because I was called

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00:14:27,160 --> 00:14:30,600
for a 18 month mission and
served for 25 months.

219
00:14:31,480 --> 00:14:43,040
I guess the rest of the story on
it is if I, if I had only gone

220
00:14:43,040 --> 00:14:46,960
for 18 months, then my whole
mission experience would have

221
00:14:46,960 --> 00:14:52,280
been for not.
And, and I know that baptisms in

222
00:14:52,280 --> 00:14:56,480
the way that we can judge
things, but, but on my mission I

223
00:14:56,480 --> 00:15:01,720
had one baptism in 18 months and
in the last four months of my

224
00:15:01,720 --> 00:15:07,800
mission, we were able to baptize
9 individuals and it was

225
00:15:07,800 --> 00:15:10,200
probably my most spiritual
growth.

226
00:15:10,200 --> 00:15:17,800
Part of my whole experience was
in those last those last months,

227
00:15:18,360 --> 00:15:21,960
so I'm very glad that I did stay
for that extra time.

228
00:15:23,320 --> 00:15:25,360
Awesome.
So, so it does sounds like that

229
00:15:26,160 --> 00:15:28,560
first part of the mission was
really rough and then the second

230
00:15:28,560 --> 00:15:30,920
part you had a lot.
You had some pretty decent

231
00:15:30,920 --> 00:15:34,360
success, yes.
Now when you're done with your

232
00:15:34,360 --> 00:15:38,240
mission, you end up just coming,
you end up going back to Texas.

233
00:15:38,240 --> 00:15:39,760
Do you go to Utah?
Where what?

234
00:15:39,760 --> 00:15:43,840
What happens after your mission?
Well, I went to Texas back to I

235
00:15:43,840 --> 00:15:49,680
went back home and then after
and was working and then I was

236
00:15:49,680 --> 00:15:53,280
thinking, you know what, BYU,
that's where all the Mormon

237
00:15:53,280 --> 00:15:56,440
girls are.
So if I want to get me a good

238
00:15:56,440 --> 00:16:00,040
Mormon girl, I probably should
go to BYU.

239
00:16:00,360 --> 00:16:07,360
And so, but I was 29 before,
before I get married, I guess

240
00:16:07,360 --> 00:16:11,800
I'm jumping the gun.
So I was probably 20, three

241
00:16:11,800 --> 00:16:17,160
before I even started college,
but I, I went to the local

242
00:16:17,160 --> 00:16:22,120
Community College in Utah.
It's now a university, It's now

243
00:16:22,120 --> 00:16:25,480
Utah Valley University, but it
was Utah Valley Community

244
00:16:25,480 --> 00:16:30,480
College at the time.
And then after a couple of

245
00:16:30,480 --> 00:16:37,840
years, I had a great, I want to
say seminary teacher, but

246
00:16:37,920 --> 00:16:44,000
institute teacher Ed Penniger.
And he's another man of God that

247
00:16:44,000 --> 00:16:48,360
had a great influence on me.
And so I said to when I was

248
00:16:48,360 --> 00:16:53,040
about to fill out my paperwork
to transfer to BYU, I said,

249
00:16:53,040 --> 00:16:55,520
Brother Ed, can you write me a
recommendation?

250
00:16:55,960 --> 00:16:58,840
And he says, sure, I would love
to write you a recommendation.

251
00:16:59,240 --> 00:17:03,480
And he wasn't supposed to even
show me what he had written, but

252
00:17:03,480 --> 00:17:05,800
he gave me a copy of his
recommendation.

253
00:17:06,079 --> 00:17:09,880
And when I read it, basically he
was saying, this is a good boy

254
00:17:10,119 --> 00:17:13,480
and and you're going to let him
into our university.

255
00:17:13,720 --> 00:17:16,640
And when I read what he had
written, I was just like, I get

256
00:17:16,640 --> 00:17:19,720
to go to BYU.
Ed Pennerger, if I'm not

257
00:17:19,720 --> 00:17:22,480
mistaken, he was a pretty
prominent author in the LDS

258
00:17:22,480 --> 00:17:25,359
church for a while too, right?
Yes, yes he was.

259
00:17:25,359 --> 00:17:30,600
He was a retired dentist.
He served as mission president a

260
00:17:30,600 --> 00:17:33,120
couple of times in England and
somewhere else.

261
00:17:33,120 --> 00:17:37,080
He was also the president of the
MTC, the Missionary Training

262
00:17:37,080 --> 00:17:43,120
Center.
And he was, he was just awesome.

263
00:17:43,120 --> 00:17:47,360
And to to be in close proximity
and have someone of that

264
00:17:47,360 --> 00:17:50,160
influence write me a letter of
recommendation.

265
00:17:50,160 --> 00:17:55,040
I believe I had the grades, but
I believe that that was probably

266
00:17:55,040 --> 00:17:57,840
1 of the biggest reason why I
got to go to BYU.

267
00:17:58,080 --> 00:17:59,840
Gotcha.
What'd you major in at BYU?

268
00:18:00,480 --> 00:18:04,480
Clinical science and early
American history.

269
00:18:04,840 --> 00:18:08,520
Nice.
So the the founding era was

270
00:18:08,520 --> 00:18:12,280
where I studied and.
Nice, nice.

271
00:18:12,320 --> 00:18:16,120
OK.
So did you, did you get a wife

272
00:18:16,120 --> 00:18:18,160
while you were there?
Well.

273
00:18:18,160 --> 00:18:25,280
I, I did, I, I would go country
dancing every Saturday night at

274
00:18:25,280 --> 00:18:32,440
the old Armory in Provo, UT And
I said, God, this is where I'm

275
00:18:32,440 --> 00:18:38,080
going to be on Saturday night.
And so if you want to send my

276
00:18:38,080 --> 00:18:41,800
wife along here, I was dating
some really beautiful and

277
00:18:41,800 --> 00:18:49,680
wonderful ladies at the time.
But one night a young lady came

278
00:18:49,680 --> 00:18:53,440
in and she was just coming
because her friends wanted to

279
00:18:53,440 --> 00:18:57,760
go.
And when I saw her, literally,

280
00:18:57,760 --> 00:19:01,440
it was like blowing my mind And
I was going, this is pretty

281
00:19:01,440 --> 00:19:05,560
because I may be shallow and
I'm, I'll say this to the whole

282
00:19:05,560 --> 00:19:09,040
wide world.
I can't imagine waking up in the

283
00:19:09,040 --> 00:19:14,440
bed next to a ugly woman.
But so I, and that makes sense.

284
00:19:14,440 --> 00:19:19,280
Sounds shallow, but I hope that
everybody believes and looks at

285
00:19:19,280 --> 00:19:24,720
their at their spouse as just
the one, the most beautiful

286
00:19:24,720 --> 00:19:28,120
queen that you can imagine.
Because if, if you find the

287
00:19:28,120 --> 00:19:35,480
right queen or Queens, then then
you, they can take you to places

288
00:19:35,480 --> 00:19:39,640
that the the you and I.
And OK, I'm just point all the

289
00:19:39,640 --> 00:19:44,480
fingers back at me that she's
able to take me places that I, I

290
00:19:44,480 --> 00:19:48,360
never ever would have been able
to go in the gospel and study

291
00:19:48,520 --> 00:19:53,360
and doing all things by myself I
just never would have been able

292
00:19:53,360 --> 00:19:57,000
to accomplish.
So I was blessed to have a

293
00:19:57,280 --> 00:20:03,480
wonderful lady that made my
world something else.

294
00:20:03,480 --> 00:20:07,200
And we have 5 kids.
They have a son, two daughters

295
00:20:07,200 --> 00:20:11,080
and two sons.
And my baby is about to graduate

296
00:20:11,080 --> 00:20:14,000
tomorrow from high school.
Wow.

297
00:20:14,800 --> 00:20:18,080
Which is blowing my mind.
Congratulations, still married.

298
00:20:18,920 --> 00:20:24,320
Absolute 30, we're in December
will be 31 years.

299
00:20:24,320 --> 00:20:26,400
Nice.
Me and me and my wife Amber will

300
00:20:26,400 --> 00:20:30,080
be celebrating 30 this fall.
So right there, right there with

301
00:20:30,080 --> 00:20:35,440
you.
So, so as you, as you're in BYU,

302
00:20:35,480 --> 00:20:41,280
you find your wife, when do you
just start working that that

303
00:20:41,360 --> 00:20:44,080
church program, right?
You get in there, you start

304
00:20:44,160 --> 00:20:48,080
ascending the ladder as far as
callings and that sort of stuff.

305
00:20:48,080 --> 00:20:50,640
What What's life like for you
after you're married with your?

306
00:20:50,640 --> 00:20:56,960
Wife Well when I was in college
I was a elders corn president

307
00:20:56,960 --> 00:21:02,200
and and other things and and
when I got married, we got

308
00:21:02,200 --> 00:21:04,600
married in the Manti Temple.
OK.

309
00:21:05,160 --> 00:21:09,960
And we got married by Elder
Philip Sontag of the Quorum of

310
00:21:09,960 --> 00:21:13,840
the 70 President.
Sontag was the area president

311
00:21:13,840 --> 00:21:19,640
down in the South Pacific when I
was there and I got to to know

312
00:21:19,640 --> 00:21:24,080
him quite a bit.
And so when I was the New.

313
00:21:24,960 --> 00:21:28,560
New Zealand has a New Zealand
missionary society.

314
00:21:28,560 --> 00:21:33,800
So every the Friday night before
conference, all New Zealand

315
00:21:33,800 --> 00:21:38,560
missionaries go to to the Rose
Park, which is kind of in a

316
00:21:38,560 --> 00:21:42,360
sketchy part of Salt Lake right
now, but back in, but it's been

317
00:21:42,360 --> 00:21:47,320
there for 30 years or whatever.
They go to the this New Zealand

318
00:21:47,320 --> 00:21:50,840
Mission reunion.
And so there would be, when I

319
00:21:50,840 --> 00:21:55,800
was going, there would be, you
know, sometimes 10 general

320
00:21:55,800 --> 00:21:57,760
authorities would be at this
event.

321
00:21:58,800 --> 00:22:03,920
And so it was kind of nice and
three months before we were

322
00:22:03,920 --> 00:22:06,600
going to get married was what
conference was happening.

323
00:22:07,200 --> 00:22:10,440
And I finally got the nerve to
go up to Sister Sontag.

324
00:22:10,440 --> 00:22:15,880
And I said, Sister Sontag, Ken,
if I asked President Sontag if

325
00:22:15,880 --> 00:22:19,600
we were, if he would perform our
wedding, what do you think he

326
00:22:19,600 --> 00:22:22,280
would say?
And so she was all affirmative

327
00:22:22,280 --> 00:22:24,760
and said we go all over the
world to do these things.

328
00:22:25,040 --> 00:22:28,680
So finally I, I got up enough
nerve to go up to this general

329
00:22:28,680 --> 00:22:33,000
authority and, and ask him and,
and he says, well, I'll have to

330
00:22:33,000 --> 00:22:38,240
call the the first Presidency
and, and I think I can work it

331
00:22:38,240 --> 00:22:41,560
into my schedule.
And so a few days later I get on

332
00:22:41,560 --> 00:22:46,240
my answering machine.
This is Elder Sontag and the

333
00:22:46,240 --> 00:22:49,640
first presidency has approved me
to come and perform your wedding

334
00:22:50,080 --> 00:22:55,600
down in Manti on December 16th.
And so we'll see you down there.

335
00:22:56,120 --> 00:23:01,800
So if I had a the First
Presidency approved my personal

336
00:23:01,800 --> 00:23:03,560
wedding.
So I'm just going to say that.

337
00:23:03,720 --> 00:23:04,600
Wow.
That's awesome.

338
00:23:06,520 --> 00:23:12,040
So, so during your your time,
you know, as a newly married

339
00:23:12,040 --> 00:23:15,120
couple, is it just like true
blue to the church or you guys

340
00:23:15,120 --> 00:23:18,520
like just in it to win it as far
as as church goes?

341
00:23:19,200 --> 00:23:24,400
Yes, I think so.
And after I graduated from from

342
00:23:24,400 --> 00:23:28,880
college, then I got a job at the
Utah County Sheriff's Office as

343
00:23:28,880 --> 00:23:32,720
a deputy sheriff.
And so we're going along.

344
00:23:33,160 --> 00:23:40,880
And there came a point where the
First Presidency made some kind

345
00:23:40,880 --> 00:23:44,560
of announcement about how you
shouldn't carry guns at church.

346
00:23:45,320 --> 00:23:50,720
And and.
Levi wrote down in a journal,

347
00:23:50,880 --> 00:23:52,880
she says.
That's your wife.

348
00:23:53,400 --> 00:23:59,200
Yes, Levi, yes.
So she wrote down, she says this

349
00:23:59,200 --> 00:24:03,480
is going to be the issue that
will, that will take Tracy out

350
00:24:03,480 --> 00:24:06,520
of the church.
How'd she feel about it?

351
00:24:11,200 --> 00:24:16,240
The more the more I text.
She is a very spiritual person

352
00:24:16,600 --> 00:24:23,720
and but she's not very fond of
religions per SE.

353
00:24:23,720 --> 00:24:29,640
OK, currently so that's she's
closer to God than most people

354
00:24:29,640 --> 00:24:34,840
that I know.
And yet a corporation or or what

355
00:24:34,840 --> 00:24:39,240
we call religion has kind of
beat her up through the years

356
00:24:39,240 --> 00:24:42,800
and not really be, but she
doesn't care for it so much.

357
00:24:43,280 --> 00:24:46,160
So she was firmly in your corner
on this is what you're what

358
00:24:46,160 --> 00:24:47,120
you're.
Yeah, yes.

359
00:24:47,440 --> 00:24:52,160
And, and she has a spirit of
prophecy and so I believe that

360
00:24:52,160 --> 00:24:55,600
she was actually seeing the end
result.

361
00:24:55,600 --> 00:24:59,120
She can see things.
So if she comes to you and says

362
00:24:59,120 --> 00:25:03,720
Brother Dave and then whispers
something in your ear, then you

363
00:25:03,720 --> 00:25:07,120
could take it or leave it, but I
would take it.

364
00:25:07,240 --> 00:25:11,760
I would take it under advisement
that you might want to take it

365
00:25:11,760 --> 00:25:16,360
back to God and say, hey,
somebody just told me because

366
00:25:16,360 --> 00:25:20,800
she does have that that spirit
of knowing and the I the Spirit

367
00:25:20,800 --> 00:25:25,160
of prophecy with her.
And so she was able to to see

368
00:25:25,160 --> 00:25:29,680
things in advance.
And if I'm, if I'm jumping up

369
00:25:29,920 --> 00:25:36,600
because of kind of where you're
going in 2019, the late August

370
00:25:36,600 --> 00:25:41,280
of 2019, I'm now retired from
the Sheriff's Office, have been

371
00:25:41,280 --> 00:25:45,440
for a while.
And hold on, am I going too

372
00:25:45,440 --> 00:25:46,840
fast?
You hold on one second.

373
00:25:46,880 --> 00:25:49,080
Yeah, I want to explore this
because this is all right.

374
00:25:49,120 --> 00:25:51,680
I have a feeling like this is
the beginning of things, right?

375
00:25:51,960 --> 00:25:55,360
So what's your thoughts as you
hear this announcement by the

376
00:25:55,360 --> 00:25:59,760
1st Presidency?
I am madder than a Hornet.

377
00:26:00,600 --> 00:26:06,480
I I am.
I am just like I took an oath

378
00:26:06,480 --> 00:26:10,720
before God to protect people and
I will.

379
00:26:10,840 --> 00:26:15,080
But now I'm I'm a deputy
sheriff, so I get to carry my

380
00:26:15,080 --> 00:26:22,640
gun at church anyway.
But but I was it that letter, it

381
00:26:22,640 --> 00:26:24,960
got under my skin.
It really did.

382
00:26:25,120 --> 00:26:27,960
Is this the first time you found
yourself questioning the church?

383
00:26:28,840 --> 00:26:32,080
Yes, I believe so.
I believe it.

384
00:26:32,320 --> 00:26:37,160
I really do believe it was
because 'cause I was like going,

385
00:26:37,160 --> 00:26:43,000
why would they ever tell people
not to have protection?

386
00:26:43,280 --> 00:26:45,160
For me?
It was like putting up a sign

387
00:26:45,160 --> 00:26:50,200
that says come rob or come hurt
the people of God because they

388
00:26:50,200 --> 00:26:53,320
don't have guns.
And so that was, that's how I

389
00:26:53,320 --> 00:26:58,200
interpreted it.
And, and so really, I think it

390
00:26:58,200 --> 00:27:03,440
was it, it must have put a
little crack in my, in my armor,

391
00:27:03,440 --> 00:27:07,480
as it were.
So, so this is the first time

392
00:27:07,480 --> 00:27:13,240
that, that, that you find a, a,
a, a bit of space between what,

393
00:27:13,240 --> 00:27:15,760
what the church is saying and
what you're believing, right?

394
00:27:16,320 --> 00:27:18,960
Yes.
From there, what happens to you?

395
00:27:21,280 --> 00:27:25,280
I keep on, I keep on keeping on
for years.

396
00:27:25,960 --> 00:27:32,040
But but I'm also because I've
got a good friend, Reverend

397
00:27:32,040 --> 00:27:38,360
Kenneth Jackson, down in Texas.
And so I reconnect with him and

398
00:27:38,360 --> 00:27:43,240
I'm being invited to speak at
churches all over the place.

399
00:27:44,000 --> 00:27:48,280
And I'm not telling them that
I'm Mormon because then they

400
00:27:48,280 --> 00:27:49,840
probably wouldn't invite me
back.

401
00:27:49,840 --> 00:27:51,520
But they love what I have to
say.

402
00:27:51,840 --> 00:27:56,000
And the first time that I got
called up in a little black

403
00:27:56,000 --> 00:28:02,200
Baptist Church in East Texas,
then then I'm sitting there and

404
00:28:02,200 --> 00:28:07,600
Reverend Jackson, he's preaching
and then God says to me in 5

405
00:28:07,600 --> 00:28:10,720
minute, you have 5 minutes, He's
going to call you up, be ready.

406
00:28:11,240 --> 00:28:12,640
And I'm like, well, what are you
talking about?

407
00:28:13,480 --> 00:28:17,040
Get ready, 5 minutes.
So that is the gift that God has

408
00:28:17,040 --> 00:28:19,440
given to me.
Anytime that I walk into a

409
00:28:19,440 --> 00:28:24,040
church, if a preacher or pastor
and elder, whoever is over the

410
00:28:24,040 --> 00:28:27,440
church, if they're going to call
on me, God will give me a 5

411
00:28:27,440 --> 00:28:30,600
minute notice.
And so I, so I said, well, what

412
00:28:30,600 --> 00:28:34,760
am I going to preach and, and
God says, how about Alma chapter

413
00:28:34,760 --> 00:28:37,320
5.
And I was like Alma chapter 5

414
00:28:37,320 --> 00:28:39,960
being born again.
I'm in a Baptist Church.

415
00:28:40,160 --> 00:28:43,680
I think, I think being born
again might be a good sermon

416
00:28:43,880 --> 00:28:48,400
that these people could hear.
And so I literally read out of

417
00:28:48,400 --> 00:28:55,040
the Book of Mormon portions of
Alma chapter 5 and the people

418
00:28:55,040 --> 00:29:00,200
were giving me Hallelujah and
everything and and I obvious I

419
00:29:00,200 --> 00:29:03,280
obviously didn't tell them where
I was reading out of, but it was

420
00:29:03,280 --> 00:29:05,640
truth and so they knew it.
Right.

421
00:29:05,640 --> 00:29:08,480
So, so at this time you said it,
this was in Texas.

422
00:29:08,480 --> 00:29:09,960
Were you living in Texas at this
time?

423
00:29:09,960 --> 00:29:11,400
No, I was.
I was.

424
00:29:12,520 --> 00:29:14,560
Oh, that was right after my
mission.

425
00:29:14,560 --> 00:29:17,640
Yes, So I was.
So that was before I even went

426
00:29:17,640 --> 00:29:18,720
to college.
OK, that.

427
00:29:18,720 --> 00:29:21,720
Story is kind of things were OK,
all right, that's before

428
00:29:21,720 --> 00:29:25,200
college.
OK, so again moving on post

429
00:29:25,200 --> 00:29:27,280
marriage and college.
Yes.

430
00:29:27,680 --> 00:29:30,760
We we find that there's this bit
of space between you and the

431
00:29:30,760 --> 00:29:36,520
church over this one policy.
And then how does that gap

432
00:29:36,520 --> 00:29:38,040
widen, so to speak?
What?

433
00:29:38,040 --> 00:29:51,840
What happens next?
It might be the the the gospel

434
00:29:51,840 --> 00:29:54,000
topics essays.
OK.

435
00:29:56,520 --> 00:30:04,040
Then they're written by lawyers
and all the sudden I have been,

436
00:30:04,160 --> 00:30:09,960
with fervent passion, I have
been preaching against those

437
00:30:09,960 --> 00:30:16,400
evil anti Mormons that have been
telling lies, damnable lies that

438
00:30:16,400 --> 00:30:19,280
they've been, that they've been
lying to the people and what

439
00:30:19,280 --> 00:30:22,960
they say is not true.
And now all of a sudden I am

440
00:30:22,960 --> 00:30:30,200
reading, I'm reading from the
church's own website, that all

441
00:30:30,200 --> 00:30:34,480
the things that I was claiming,
proclaiming with the with the

442
00:30:34,480 --> 00:30:40,840
zeal of youth, all of those
things were actually true.

443
00:30:41,040 --> 00:30:43,080
What kind of lies are you
talking about here?

444
00:30:43,080 --> 00:30:44,680
What?
What kind of things are are you

445
00:30:44,720 --> 00:30:53,560
running into here?
Now there there are so many so

446
00:30:53,560 --> 00:30:56,520
I'm going to try to.
Just name the ones that were

447
00:30:56,520 --> 00:31:05,840
most influential on you.
Was it Joseph practicing

448
00:31:06,040 --> 00:31:07,200
polygamy?
Was it?

449
00:31:07,320 --> 00:31:09,600
Yeah, yes.
And my wife tripped out on me

450
00:31:09,600 --> 00:31:15,320
about that because she was just
like, well, I knew that Joseph

451
00:31:15,320 --> 00:31:19,520
practice polygamy and because
I'm in East Texas and I'm not in

452
00:31:19,520 --> 00:31:23,040
Utah.
Mormonism the only thing that I

453
00:31:23,040 --> 00:31:26,840
knew about Joseph is that when I
went to Nauvoo that there was

454
00:31:26,840 --> 00:31:30,560
this beautiful statue and Joseph
was holding the hands of his

455
00:31:30,560 --> 00:31:36,200
beautiful wife Emma and that was
my picture of it.

456
00:31:36,480 --> 00:31:42,680
And so when I'm now learning the
Joseph that it didn't start with

457
00:31:42,680 --> 00:31:48,320
Brigham, that now Joseph was was
the one that was practicing

458
00:31:48,520 --> 00:31:56,800
plural marriage and and it was
so everything that the that the

459
00:31:56,800 --> 00:32:00,080
Tanners were were telling people
back in the 60s.

460
00:32:00,120 --> 00:32:02,120
Gerald and Sandra Tanner, right?
Yes.

461
00:32:02,120 --> 00:32:03,440
Yes.
House Ministries.

462
00:32:03,720 --> 00:32:09,640
Yes, I was finding that most of
the things that that I was

463
00:32:09,640 --> 00:32:14,320
growing, grew up and was told
were absolute lies that the

464
00:32:14,320 --> 00:32:19,160
Tanners had actually been
telling the truth on, on some of

465
00:32:19,160 --> 00:32:23,560
these things.
And and it was blowing my mind

466
00:32:23,560 --> 00:32:27,320
because because now I had a
cognitive dissonance because I

467
00:32:27,320 --> 00:32:30,640
was told one thing.
And now I've got the same people

468
00:32:30,640 --> 00:32:34,560
that told me the one thing are
now printing something that

469
00:32:34,560 --> 00:32:38,760
says, oh, oh, by the way, yeah,
that wasn't a lie.

470
00:32:38,760 --> 00:32:41,880
That was actual truth.
You know, I do want to caution

471
00:32:41,880 --> 00:32:45,240
people.
Sandra and Gerald never, in my

472
00:32:45,240 --> 00:32:48,200
estimation, printed anything
that wasn't true.

473
00:32:48,840 --> 00:32:54,960
However, what they would do is
they would find old sources and

474
00:32:54,960 --> 00:32:59,160
they wouldn't exactly put it all
into context, Right, Right,

475
00:32:59,320 --> 00:33:01,960
right.
And that context is hugely

476
00:33:01,960 --> 00:33:05,000
important, right?
And it's a, it's a ski.

477
00:33:05,680 --> 00:33:09,400
It's a tactic that we see across
the board when it comes to

478
00:33:09,400 --> 00:33:11,040
enemies of the restoration,
right?

479
00:33:11,320 --> 00:33:15,360
They will glom onto a quote, but
they won't surround that quote

480
00:33:16,240 --> 00:33:20,920
with with with the context that
you need to extract the full

481
00:33:20,920 --> 00:33:23,720
meaning of it.
Or they'll put a dot dot dot and

482
00:33:23,720 --> 00:33:26,920
then you when you're looking at
the actual text, it'll be a

483
00:33:26,920 --> 00:33:28,440
sentence.
And in the middle of the

484
00:33:28,440 --> 00:33:32,520
sentence they'll cut it and then
3 pages later, that's where the

485
00:33:32,520 --> 00:33:36,040
dot dot dot picks up.
And so I've I have seen that

486
00:33:36,040 --> 00:33:42,200
also, but it maybe it was part
of it was was the different

487
00:33:42,200 --> 00:33:49,400
versions of the first vision and
find and finding out that Joseph

488
00:33:49,400 --> 00:33:53,120
Fielding Smith was it Joseph F
or Joseph Smith.

489
00:33:55,120 --> 00:34:00,680
It was one of the Joseph Smith's
had actually taken from the

490
00:34:00,680 --> 00:34:06,120
Prophet Joseph's journal and cut
the pages out and until the

491
00:34:06,120 --> 00:34:09,400
Tanners we're saying, hey,
there's the stuff.

492
00:34:09,600 --> 00:34:11,800
Then all sudden they taped it
back in.

493
00:34:11,800 --> 00:34:15,320
And so you, you can look at if
you're looking at the Joseph

494
00:34:15,320 --> 00:34:19,159
Smith papers, you can actually
see the little tape where,

495
00:34:19,880 --> 00:34:24,760
where, where it's taped back in.
And so, so it caused him such

496
00:34:24,760 --> 00:34:31,040
problems that he hid it instead
of I don't like it when people

497
00:34:31,199 --> 00:34:36,360
when people lie to me, I guess.
And so if it's a problem, then

498
00:34:36,800 --> 00:34:40,080
let me deal with it.
You don't need to protect me.

499
00:34:40,280 --> 00:34:42,800
Yeah, no.
And and look, this is where the

500
00:34:42,800 --> 00:34:45,159
church has kind of shot
themselves in the foot a couple

501
00:34:45,159 --> 00:34:48,080
of times, right?
Like I don't believe that the

502
00:34:48,080 --> 00:34:50,600
church had I'll intent by doing
that, right?

503
00:34:50,840 --> 00:34:53,960
What what I think, what I think
they were doing here.

504
00:34:54,239 --> 00:34:55,960
And and look, I'll be honest
with you.

505
00:34:55,960 --> 00:34:58,520
There are several accounts,
several different versions of

506
00:34:58,520 --> 00:35:02,200
the first Vision, right?
But what you have to understand

507
00:35:02,200 --> 00:35:07,720
is that Joseph Joseph isn't
telling everybody everything he

508
00:35:07,720 --> 00:35:12,120
saw that single moment after he
has it right.

509
00:35:12,440 --> 00:35:16,720
Right.
He he's, he's obviously you

510
00:35:16,720 --> 00:35:20,040
wouldn't take a new convert and
be like, now let me tell you,

511
00:35:20,160 --> 00:35:21,800
let's go through the temple,
right?

512
00:35:21,840 --> 00:35:24,280
You know you've been you.
You don't want to give them

513
00:35:24,280 --> 00:35:26,320
that.
You need to feed them some milk

514
00:35:26,320 --> 00:35:28,400
first.
Yeah, they're, you know, 10

515
00:35:28,400 --> 00:35:30,920
minutes ends a little soon to be
going to the temple, right,

516
00:35:31,280 --> 00:35:36,080
right.
And so Joseph's like I went back

517
00:35:36,080 --> 00:35:39,480
and I've reviewed, I think
there's three versions that that

518
00:35:39,480 --> 00:35:42,640
you can really look at say for
sure that those were Joseph's

519
00:35:43,440 --> 00:35:45,960
versions of it.
There's nothing in there that

520
00:35:45,960 --> 00:35:48,400
contradicts.
He just decides he's going to

521
00:35:48,400 --> 00:35:51,520
give you a little bit more every
time, right?

522
00:35:51,800 --> 00:35:57,280
But it was so problematic to
Joseph F that that he hit it for

523
00:35:57,280 --> 00:36:01,360
40 years in the safe so no one
could see it.

524
00:36:01,680 --> 00:36:04,360
And and that's that's the
problem for me.

525
00:36:04,520 --> 00:36:07,720
That's the problem, right?
Rather than and do honest

526
00:36:07,720 --> 00:36:11,280
history and say, look, here's
what we think this means, right?

527
00:36:11,560 --> 00:36:16,280
Joseph has given his his a
little bit at a time until he's

528
00:36:16,280 --> 00:36:18,760
ready to reveal the whole thing,
right.

529
00:36:19,280 --> 00:36:23,200
And and rather than say that the
church went to great lengths to

530
00:36:23,200 --> 00:36:26,720
cover up some things, I guess
probably from a good point of

531
00:36:26,720 --> 00:36:29,000
view, like do they really need
to know this part?

532
00:36:29,000 --> 00:36:33,640
No, just put that out and let's
just get a standard version,

533
00:36:33,640 --> 00:36:35,680
right?
This, this happened during

534
00:36:36,120 --> 00:36:40,200
during the church's period known
as correlation, right?

535
00:36:40,360 --> 00:36:42,000
Where the church?
And that was probably one of the

536
00:36:42,000 --> 00:36:44,400
worst places in the whole church
history.

537
00:36:44,680 --> 00:36:49,760
Absolutely, but they want to try
to line it up and make it make

538
00:36:49,760 --> 00:36:53,640
it a well it it's a marketing
move is what it is right.

539
00:36:53,640 --> 00:36:58,280
Let's let's simplify the, the,
the marketing here and and that

540
00:36:58,280 --> 00:37:01,920
way it's easier to digest.
But what happens is it looks

541
00:37:01,920 --> 00:37:05,000
like, you know, whether they
mean to or not, it does have the

542
00:37:05,000 --> 00:37:07,320
appearance of trying to hide
things.

543
00:37:07,720 --> 00:37:12,760
So like guys like yourself who
bump into it later, what are you

544
00:37:12,760 --> 00:37:14,400
supposed to think?
Right.

545
00:37:14,400 --> 00:37:17,760
I'm 50 years old when I get this
information.

546
00:37:18,240 --> 00:37:22,640
So I've been I've been preaching
to people my whole life that

547
00:37:22,840 --> 00:37:25,560
that this is the facts.
And all of a sudden now I'm

548
00:37:25,560 --> 00:37:30,360
learning that it's not the fact.
And when you were asking the

549
00:37:30,360 --> 00:37:33,840
question on what were some of
the things I'm finding, I start

550
00:37:33,840 --> 00:37:37,000
doing a deep dive into church
history because of this.

551
00:37:38,080 --> 00:37:42,080
And no, it's not a it was
wonderful because because we

552
00:37:42,080 --> 00:37:47,040
have the Joseph Smith paper and
now I don't have to rely on

553
00:37:47,040 --> 00:37:49,520
what's printed in my doctor in
the covenants.

554
00:37:49,680 --> 00:37:54,120
I can actually go to the source
and look at it and see what it

555
00:37:54,120 --> 00:37:56,960
was written in there.
But when I'm studying, then all

556
00:37:56,960 --> 00:38:02,800
the sudden I'm finding, I think
it was in 1921 that they, the

557
00:38:02,800 --> 00:38:08,800
James Talmage arbitrarily takes
the lectures on faith out of the

558
00:38:08,800 --> 00:38:11,800
Doctrine and Covenants.
And so now all we have is

559
00:38:11,800 --> 00:38:13,800
covenants.
We don't have the doctrine.

560
00:38:14,160 --> 00:38:20,120
And, and that was problematic to
me because the, the rule book

561
00:38:20,120 --> 00:38:24,120
says the, the, the people of God
have to vote.

562
00:38:24,400 --> 00:38:29,600
They have to vote and nobody
voted to take it out.

563
00:38:29,600 --> 00:38:34,800
And yet it was removed from our
scriptures in in a wrong manner.

564
00:38:35,440 --> 00:38:39,120
So, so that was one of those
things that really caught my

565
00:38:39,120 --> 00:38:43,040
attention.
And that, and there was a lot of

566
00:38:43,040 --> 00:38:48,760
stuff in the early 1900s that is
going to become problematic.

567
00:38:49,560 --> 00:38:56,240
John W Smith or John W Taylor
and and Matthias Callie.

568
00:38:56,400 --> 00:38:58,960
And now I'm from remember I
served my mission in New

569
00:38:58,960 --> 00:39:02,760
Zealand.
Matthew Callie is the missionary

570
00:39:02,760 --> 00:39:06,000
of New Zealand in the New
Zealand Temple.

571
00:39:06,640 --> 00:39:10,320
There was a huge portrait
walking up the stairs in the

572
00:39:10,320 --> 00:39:14,120
news of Matthew Callie so and he
he's in.

573
00:39:14,800 --> 00:39:18,640
So I love Matthias Callie
because he's the daddy of

574
00:39:18,640 --> 00:39:21,920
Matthew Callie.
And Matthew Callie was an

575
00:39:21,920 --> 00:39:27,400
individual that raised the dead
and was able to give sight to

576
00:39:27,400 --> 00:39:31,320
the blind.
And so he, he was like one of

577
00:39:31,320 --> 00:39:37,280
those real deal men of God.
And, and so I'm looking at, and

578
00:39:37,560 --> 00:39:45,400
I'm told through my correlation
that Oh well, John W Taylor and

579
00:39:45,400 --> 00:39:47,960
Mathias Cowley, they were kicked
out of the church.

580
00:39:48,280 --> 00:39:52,360
But now I'm reading they
resigned from the quorum of the

581
00:39:52,360 --> 00:39:54,800
12.
Ain't nobody kicked them out of

582
00:39:54,800 --> 00:39:58,240
nothing.
And and as I'm reading, I'm just

583
00:39:58,240 --> 00:40:04,400
like, oh, wow.
And people are asking John W

584
00:40:04,400 --> 00:40:06,280
Taylor.
They're asking and why didn't go

585
00:40:06,280 --> 00:40:08,840
to church.
They said, because every if I

586
00:40:08,840 --> 00:40:12,120
walk into a church, guess who's
going to be preaching that day?

587
00:40:12,720 --> 00:40:16,080
Me.
And so he quit going to church.

588
00:40:16,960 --> 00:40:19,240
Because he wasn't trying to
cause problems.

589
00:40:19,320 --> 00:40:21,840
Well, they they did
excommunicate him and and

590
00:40:21,840 --> 00:40:24,240
Matthias Callie.
I know that they did, but that

591
00:40:24,240 --> 00:40:29,240
was way after the fact.
But but all I heard is that they

592
00:40:29,240 --> 00:40:34,520
got excommunicated, not that
they had resigned in protest and

593
00:40:34,520 --> 00:40:37,200
said, OK, we're not members of
the corn of the 12 anymore

594
00:40:37,440 --> 00:40:41,880
because we made covenants.
And whether someone agrees with

595
00:40:41,880 --> 00:40:44,560
those covenants that are not
they made covenants and they

596
00:40:44,560 --> 00:40:49,080
were covenant keepers, right?
And what I what I found is if

597
00:40:49,080 --> 00:40:53,680
you make a covenant with God,
you it's you'd be best advised

598
00:40:53,680 --> 00:40:56,360
to keep those covenants.
Right, right.

599
00:40:56,800 --> 00:40:59,600
So, so you discover all this
stuff, right?

600
00:40:59,600 --> 00:41:01,640
Yes.
You see that it's problematic.

601
00:41:01,640 --> 00:41:05,200
It's it's obviously weighing on
you and understandably so.

602
00:41:07,000 --> 00:41:14,160
What happens next, Tracy?
September 2019 is what happens

603
00:41:14,160 --> 00:41:18,440
next.
OK, then the Bishop Cosey our,

604
00:41:18,440 --> 00:41:25,480
our French presiding Bishop, he
says that he, he makes, he

605
00:41:25,480 --> 00:41:30,920
changes the policy and he says
he used to say it's, it's

606
00:41:31,200 --> 00:41:32,960
inappropriate to have a gun at
church.

607
00:41:32,960 --> 00:41:37,560
He changed the policy to It is
prohibited to have a gun on

608
00:41:37,560 --> 00:41:41,080
church property.
Right.

609
00:41:42,000 --> 00:41:47,480
And me, so I believe in prayer.
I believe that you and I can go

610
00:41:47,480 --> 00:41:51,280
straight to the source so I
don't have to rely on anybody.

611
00:41:51,280 --> 00:41:55,880
I can't, I have AI can go
straight to the throne room, as

612
00:41:55,880 --> 00:41:58,400
it were.
And so I went straight to God

613
00:41:58,400 --> 00:42:00,320
and I said, God, what am I
supposed to do?

614
00:42:00,800 --> 00:42:05,920
And they said, I can't carry a
gun at church, but I'm I made AI

615
00:42:05,920 --> 00:42:10,680
made AI made an oath before you
that I was going to that I would

616
00:42:10,680 --> 00:42:14,920
protect the people.
And so so the way I was going to

617
00:42:14,920 --> 00:42:18,760
try to get out of it, just like
I was doing when I was doing my

618
00:42:19,520 --> 00:42:24,880
my little extension on my
mission, I said, God, am I

619
00:42:24,880 --> 00:42:28,040
relieved of the oath that I took
to protect the people?

620
00:42:28,040 --> 00:42:30,720
I'm now retired.
I'm no longer a deputy sheriff.

621
00:42:31,240 --> 00:42:35,160
Am I relieved of that oath?
And then I'm going to just say

622
00:42:36,000 --> 00:42:38,440
the voice that came to me torn
still.

623
00:42:38,440 --> 00:42:42,600
Nor was it small.
It was like it was no.

624
00:42:43,040 --> 00:42:45,400
It was like a shout from heaven
that said no.

625
00:42:45,720 --> 00:42:49,000
And so I said, OK, God, I
understand how you feel about

626
00:42:49,000 --> 00:42:53,600
covenants and you when we met
covenants with you, we better

627
00:42:53,600 --> 00:42:56,400
keep them.
So I said, what am I supposed to

628
00:42:56,400 --> 00:43:01,080
do?
And God said to me, do not

629
00:43:01,080 --> 00:43:04,040
worship where you are not
welcome.

630
00:43:05,320 --> 00:43:07,640
And I was like, what does that
mean?

631
00:43:08,760 --> 00:43:11,520
And God said, I know you're a
country boy from East Texas.

632
00:43:11,520 --> 00:43:13,640
So I'm a, I'm a break it down
for you.

633
00:43:14,360 --> 00:43:16,320
Do not worship where you're not
welcome.

634
00:43:17,200 --> 00:43:22,400
And I was like, OK, well, I'm
not welcome at the LDS church

635
00:43:22,400 --> 00:43:24,840
here.
He said, I gave you your

636
00:43:24,840 --> 00:43:29,560
instruction.
And so from that point on, then

637
00:43:29,560 --> 00:43:34,840
I had been going from time to
time out to Rocky Ridge to the

638
00:43:34,840 --> 00:43:38,240
AUB.
And I love the people in Rocky

639
00:43:38,240 --> 00:43:40,120
Ridge.
I've got so many friends out

640
00:43:40,120 --> 00:43:45,320
there, brother Malcolm, who
who's kind of like the state

641
00:43:45,320 --> 00:43:49,960
president out there.
I, I just love the people out

642
00:43:49,960 --> 00:43:51,360
there.
And so that's where I started

643
00:43:51,680 --> 00:43:55,960
going to church.
And I was going there for, for a

644
00:43:55,960 --> 00:43:59,320
couple of years.
And this was during COVID.

645
00:44:00,600 --> 00:44:04,280
So I loved going out to Rocky
Ridge because in the middle of

646
00:44:04,280 --> 00:44:10,000
COVID, there would be 700 people
in the church and not one soul

647
00:44:10,000 --> 00:44:14,440
was wearing a mask and they were
drinking the sacrament after

648
00:44:14,440 --> 00:44:17,520
each other because they they
have the cups.

649
00:44:17,520 --> 00:44:20,080
And so so they pass the cups
down.

650
00:44:20,520 --> 00:44:25,520
And I love that because I was
thinking, if we're the people of

651
00:44:25,520 --> 00:44:29,400
God, why are we worried about
the plagues that are coming on

652
00:44:29,400 --> 00:44:32,520
the world?
Sure, it's so I was able to see

653
00:44:32,520 --> 00:44:34,720
that.
Well, let me stop you here for a

654
00:44:34,720 --> 00:44:40,640
second.
So people have a choice when

655
00:44:40,640 --> 00:44:42,720
they encounter the old stuff,
right?

656
00:44:42,720 --> 00:44:46,920
Like it's just you did.
And and by and large, you know,

657
00:44:46,920 --> 00:44:50,040
this isn't 100% true.
This is a generalization.

658
00:44:50,040 --> 00:44:52,520
But by and large, you're either
not going to be a Mormon anymore

659
00:44:52,520 --> 00:44:54,840
or you're going to become a
fundamentalist, right?

660
00:44:55,320 --> 00:44:59,680
Right.
What is it that you think it was

661
00:44:59,680 --> 00:45:02,760
about the gospel or your
experiences that helped you

662
00:45:02,760 --> 00:45:05,160
stick around when you found out
it wasn't true?

663
00:45:05,400 --> 00:45:08,280
Because it would have been easy
just to be like, look, they lied

664
00:45:08,280 --> 00:45:11,320
to me, so it all must be wrong,
right?

665
00:45:11,520 --> 00:45:14,040
What kept you?
What kept you tethered to the

666
00:45:14,040 --> 00:45:18,960
gospel despite seeing the
inconsistencies that you found

667
00:45:18,960 --> 00:45:22,120
in the LDS Church?
Doctor the Covenant, Section

668
00:45:22,120 --> 00:45:26,600
112.
In that section, I would preach

669
00:45:26,600 --> 00:45:30,040
to people all the time in that
section, God said I'm going to

670
00:45:30,040 --> 00:45:34,960
clean my house 1st and he said,
I'm going to start here.

671
00:45:35,560 --> 00:45:40,160
I'm but I'm going to clean up my
own house and for forever.

672
00:45:40,160 --> 00:45:43,040
When I would talk to people
about that, I'll say, so if you

673
00:45:43,040 --> 00:45:46,320
see, if you see people that are
in the church and they're not

674
00:45:46,320 --> 00:45:50,440
acting right, they just know God
said that his house is going to

675
00:45:50,440 --> 00:45:52,440
have to be clean.
It's going to have to be swept

676
00:45:52,440 --> 00:45:55,360
out.
And, and so I was making it kind

677
00:45:55,360 --> 00:46:00,360
of in a generalized way.
And then all of a sudden I was

678
00:46:00,360 --> 00:46:02,840
talking to somebody and I told
them that story.

679
00:46:03,240 --> 00:46:08,240
And, and I don't know how you,
how you receive revelation or

680
00:46:08,240 --> 00:46:12,720
get information, but when I'm
told you need to go back to the

681
00:46:12,720 --> 00:46:18,120
text, then I'm telling something
not exactly the way I need it.

682
00:46:18,400 --> 00:46:21,760
And so God says, why don't you
go back to that text, go back to

683
00:46:21,760 --> 00:46:25,040
section 112 of the doctorate
covenants and read the whole

684
00:46:25,040 --> 00:46:28,480
section and then come back to me
and tell me who it's talking

685
00:46:28,520 --> 00:46:33,400
about.
So I do it and then before the

686
00:46:33,440 --> 00:46:37,720
the verses and it's like 24.
I don't have them in front of

687
00:46:37,720 --> 00:46:41,160
me, but where where he says he's
going to clean his house.

688
00:46:42,080 --> 00:46:47,080
But right up above that, then it
tells you he says that he's

689
00:46:47,480 --> 00:46:51,000
talking to the First Presidency
and the quorum of the 12.

690
00:46:51,000 --> 00:46:56,320
And then he says, and from this
place I'm going to clean my

691
00:46:56,320 --> 00:47:00,520
house.
And then right after that, then

692
00:47:00,520 --> 00:47:04,520
he's then it says then he
mentions the quorum, the 12 and

693
00:47:04,520 --> 00:47:08,960
the First Presidency.
So anybody who knows Hebrew

694
00:47:09,760 --> 00:47:14,240
writing style or has read the
Book of Mormon, then they know

695
00:47:14,240 --> 00:47:20,760
that there are these cosmic
formations where AB major point

696
00:47:21,120 --> 00:47:25,440
BC so so it makes a ladder and
then it makes a major point and

697
00:47:25,440 --> 00:47:29,640
then it comes down the ladder.
And so in my mind, what happened

698
00:47:29,640 --> 00:47:35,880
when I'm reading it is it was
telling me that that before he

699
00:47:35,880 --> 00:47:39,560
was going to have to clean his
house, that he's talking to the

700
00:47:39,560 --> 00:47:41,320
First Presidency in Coram of the
12.

701
00:47:41,320 --> 00:47:44,720
And in case you missed it, right
after he says he's going to

702
00:47:44,720 --> 00:47:48,240
clean his house, then he tells
you that he's talking about he's

703
00:47:48,240 --> 00:47:50,520
talking to the First Presidency
in Coram as well.

704
00:47:51,600 --> 00:47:59,960
So the direct answer to your
question is this, God said, why

705
00:47:59,960 --> 00:48:04,040
are you surprised?
I told the Prophet Joseph way

706
00:48:04,040 --> 00:48:10,840
back when I told 150 years ago,
I told him that and it was

707
00:48:10,840 --> 00:48:13,600
probably more than that.
I should probably figure out how

708
00:48:13,600 --> 00:48:17,160
many years it is.
But he says, but he said, why

709
00:48:17,160 --> 00:48:20,720
would you be surprised when I
said that the that my church was

710
00:48:20,720 --> 00:48:23,840
going to be out of order?
Why would you be surprised if

711
00:48:23,840 --> 00:48:25,520
you found that it was out of
order?

712
00:48:26,440 --> 00:48:33,800
And so that's what has kept me
in in in the restoration.

713
00:48:34,040 --> 00:48:37,920
And there have been many times
that when I would learn things

714
00:48:39,080 --> 00:48:42,520
that I wanted to just throw the
Prophet Joseph away.

715
00:48:42,720 --> 00:48:44,480
I mean, there were some things I
was reading.

716
00:48:44,480 --> 00:48:48,240
I want to throw them what back
can't because I can't explain

717
00:48:48,280 --> 00:48:54,280
all the other stuff.
And, and so my conclusion is

718
00:48:54,280 --> 00:49:00,360
that the Prophet Joseph is a
Mystic in the truest sense of

719
00:49:00,360 --> 00:49:02,600
the word.
And by Mystic, I'm going to

720
00:49:02,600 --> 00:49:08,680
define it as every two or three
thousand years in the history of

721
00:49:08,680 --> 00:49:12,360
the world, there will be someone
who comes along that changes the

722
00:49:12,360 --> 00:49:15,440
whole world.
You'll get a Confucius, you'll

723
00:49:15,440 --> 00:49:19,640
get a Buddha, you'll get a Lord
Krishna, you'll get Jesus,

724
00:49:19,680 --> 00:49:25,240
you'll get a Moses, Abraham.
And those are the people that

725
00:49:25,760 --> 00:49:29,200
that I believe that are Mystics.
And I'm going to put the Prophet

726
00:49:29,200 --> 00:49:34,440
Joseph in that same category.
Now it's easier if if I just

727
00:49:34,440 --> 00:49:37,920
said they're prophets of God,
that's easier.

728
00:49:37,920 --> 00:49:43,840
But for me, they're, they're
more than just prophets of God

729
00:49:43,840 --> 00:49:47,520
because they're bringing
knowledge and truth that has

730
00:49:47,520 --> 00:49:50,040
either been lost or never had on
the earth.

731
00:49:50,640 --> 00:49:53,320
Got you.
That's what has kept me, that

732
00:49:53,320 --> 00:49:57,920
what has kept me in because I
can't explain him away.

733
00:49:58,200 --> 00:50:01,400
And even when I wanted to and I
got mad at the Prophet Joseph a

734
00:50:01,400 --> 00:50:05,440
few times and then I would have
to go, yeah, but look at all

735
00:50:05,440 --> 00:50:09,200
this other.
So if if I'm doing a balancing

736
00:50:09,200 --> 00:50:12,480
act and I'm not trying to do a
balancing act, but my mind's

737
00:50:12,480 --> 00:50:18,120
kind of simple and and I'm just
like going, yeah, he, he he's a

738
00:50:18,120 --> 00:50:20,560
prophet.
I can't explain him any other

739
00:50:20,560 --> 00:50:28,480
way or calling him a Mystic in
in the the vein of Jesus and

740
00:50:28,480 --> 00:50:32,520
Moses and those sorts.
Gotcha, gotcha.

741
00:50:32,560 --> 00:50:35,680
You know, that term doesn't
frighten me like it maybe

742
00:50:35,680 --> 00:50:40,480
frightens others, right, Because
that term Mystic, right?

743
00:50:40,880 --> 00:50:44,840
And, and look, I want to say
this, I think, and I've said

744
00:50:44,840 --> 00:50:48,440
this before on the podcast, if
we're not encountering the

745
00:50:48,440 --> 00:50:51,040
divine.
Yes, thank you.

746
00:50:51,080 --> 00:50:53,400
We're, we're, we're not, we're,
we're not it.

747
00:50:53,640 --> 00:50:57,120
It would be like going to a
buffet and thinking that there

748
00:50:57,120 --> 00:50:59,400
were certain things that were
off limits to you that you

749
00:50:59,400 --> 00:51:02,400
really wanted, right?
Because the whole thrust of

750
00:51:02,400 --> 00:51:07,440
Joseph's message is is I had an
experience with deity, and I'm

751
00:51:07,440 --> 00:51:08,880
going to show you how you can do
the same.

752
00:51:09,320 --> 00:51:11,640
Right.
And that's, and that's what he's

753
00:51:11,640 --> 00:51:16,440
about.
And so, and, and, and it really

754
00:51:16,440 --> 00:51:21,320
helps to be kind of gosh, how do
I say this without irritating

755
00:51:21,320 --> 00:51:26,640
people, whatever I feel like
sometimes the Catholics have

756
00:51:26,640 --> 00:51:30,400
this really narrowed down as far
as how some of their laborers

757
00:51:30,760 --> 00:51:34,400
labels, right.
The Catholics are real good

758
00:51:34,400 --> 00:51:38,480
about talking about Mystics or
talking about, you know, they,

759
00:51:38,560 --> 00:51:43,080
they classified Pope John Paul
the Second as a Mystic, right?

760
00:51:43,080 --> 00:51:45,040
Because he has.
Oh, no kidding, right?

761
00:51:45,040 --> 00:51:48,200
Because he has certain dreams
and, and, and it's really out of

762
00:51:48,200 --> 00:51:50,600
one of those those experiences,
right.

763
00:51:51,080 --> 00:51:54,840
And, and one of the things I, I
know that helps certain people

764
00:51:54,840 --> 00:51:57,640
wrap their minds around this,
throw out the word Mystic and

765
00:51:57,640 --> 00:52:01,920
maybe or mystical experience,
throw that word out and just put

766
00:52:02,040 --> 00:52:06,560
encountered the divine, right?
Yes, it was it was out of it was

767
00:52:06,560 --> 00:52:10,600
out of an encounter with the
divine that John Paul the second

768
00:52:10,760 --> 00:52:14,960
says, OK, I got to team up with
Reagan and Nancy Thatcher to end

769
00:52:14,960 --> 00:52:18,280
communism, right?
It was out of that.

770
00:52:18,280 --> 00:52:20,320
He was he, he, he was huge on
that, right.

771
00:52:20,560 --> 00:52:23,240
And so we see that religious
leaders, the ones that really

772
00:52:23,240 --> 00:52:27,320
have an impact, they have that
encounter with the divine,

773
00:52:27,520 --> 00:52:29,720
right.
We see it with Moses.

774
00:52:29,720 --> 00:52:31,920
We see it certainly with
Abraham.

775
00:52:31,920 --> 00:52:34,760
We see it, you know, and, and
I'm just talking about the

776
00:52:34,760 --> 00:52:40,480
Judeo-christian traditions here.
They encounter the divine.

777
00:52:40,480 --> 00:52:43,200
And then for us, that should
give us a road map on how to get

778
00:52:43,200 --> 00:52:44,720
there.
Right, right.

779
00:52:45,000 --> 00:52:48,320
And so the Greeks are going to
call that a theophany is when

780
00:52:48,320 --> 00:52:52,560
you encounter the divine, you're
you're coming in contact with

781
00:52:52,560 --> 00:52:56,400
God in a way that not everybody
gets to experience.

782
00:52:56,680 --> 00:53:01,720
And the Prophet Joseph is going
to say, whatever I have learned,

783
00:53:01,720 --> 00:53:05,480
seen or heard, you can do the
same.

784
00:53:05,880 --> 00:53:09,480
And that I love so much about
the Prophet Joseph.

785
00:53:09,800 --> 00:53:15,880
So as you discovered all these
inconsistencies between the old

786
00:53:15,880 --> 00:53:20,520
days and now, it's got to send
you searching, right?

787
00:53:20,520 --> 00:53:23,560
So you go searching for the one
true church now again.

788
00:53:25,840 --> 00:53:31,560
No, because all right, let me
qualify that in the Doctrine of

789
00:53:31,560 --> 00:53:34,920
Covenants.
What I found was that three on

790
00:53:34,920 --> 00:53:38,320
three different occasions, God
is telling us that we're

791
00:53:38,320 --> 00:53:45,760
supposed to read from the best
books and my conclusion from

792
00:53:45,760 --> 00:53:51,760
studying the Old Testament.
So studying the Tanakh, the the

793
00:53:51,760 --> 00:53:58,160
Torah, the the old books and
then studying the Bible and and

794
00:53:58,640 --> 00:54:03,680
ancient writings all over the
place is my conclusion has been

795
00:54:04,080 --> 00:54:08,680
that I have been able to find
truth all over the place,

796
00:54:08,760 --> 00:54:13,520
Nuggets of truth.
And, and it looks like that

797
00:54:13,520 --> 00:54:19,640
nobody, no matter who they say
or what they say, has a corner

798
00:54:19,640 --> 00:54:22,680
on the market that that is my
assessment.

799
00:54:23,000 --> 00:54:25,880
And so God has sent me out to so
I'm reading.

800
00:54:25,960 --> 00:54:30,200
If you look behind me up here,
you can find 10 different

801
00:54:31,400 --> 00:54:35,520
versions of the Bible.
You can you can also find the

802
00:54:35,520 --> 00:54:38,720
Bhagavata.
You can find the Quran.

803
00:54:38,840 --> 00:54:44,360
You can find, you can find the
books, holy books from all over

804
00:54:44,360 --> 00:54:48,000
the world.
And I'm not necessarily

805
00:54:48,000 --> 00:54:52,360
encouraging everybody to read
those things, but God has given

806
00:54:52,360 --> 00:54:55,720
me a gift where I can.
I can go through a lot of rubble

807
00:54:56,080 --> 00:54:59,560
and then all of a sudden say,
Brother Dave, look at this gold

808
00:54:59,560 --> 00:55:03,320
nugget that I just found.
And I'm probably not going to

809
00:55:03,320 --> 00:55:07,040
tell you to go read the book
that I had to go 1500 pages

810
00:55:07,040 --> 00:55:09,320
through to find that one nugget
of gold.

811
00:55:09,520 --> 00:55:12,760
But I might say, hey, here's a
nugget of gold.

812
00:55:13,680 --> 00:55:15,760
You don't need to go through it
because I found it.

813
00:55:16,440 --> 00:55:18,360
Well, that was that was
something that was taught by

814
00:55:18,360 --> 00:55:20,760
both Joseph Ambergam, right?
Yes, yes.

815
00:55:21,880 --> 00:55:24,760
They said all, you know, all
truth belongs to Mormonism,

816
00:55:24,880 --> 00:55:26,600
right?
And and they weren't, they

817
00:55:26,640 --> 00:55:28,840
weren't afraid to go find that,
right?

818
00:55:29,720 --> 00:55:31,560
And and so no, that's, that's
good.

819
00:55:31,880 --> 00:55:34,520
So you, you start looking
around, right?

820
00:55:34,520 --> 00:55:37,960
You start reading other books,
so to speak, right, yes.

821
00:55:38,000 --> 00:55:43,640
And where does that lead you?
Well, it, it led me down a path

822
00:55:43,640 --> 00:55:48,760
and, and, and after I retired
from the Sheriff's Office, then

823
00:55:48,760 --> 00:55:53,960
I went, I got to travel and
spend, spend more time in Texas.

824
00:55:54,280 --> 00:55:57,600
And that's when I really got
invited to a whole lot of

825
00:55:57,600 --> 00:56:01,960
different churches.
And Brother Dave it it, it was

826
00:56:01,960 --> 00:56:06,200
amazing to me because I'm taught
my whole life is that we have

827
00:56:06,200 --> 00:56:10,400
the corner on the market.
But I'm going into churches and

828
00:56:10,400 --> 00:56:15,080
I'm seeing real men and women of
God that are blessing and

829
00:56:15,080 --> 00:56:18,960
healing the sick and they're
doing it properly.

830
00:56:18,960 --> 00:56:23,320
And they're getting people off
of crack and off of cocaine and

831
00:56:23,320 --> 00:56:25,840
all these things that are
destroying their life.

832
00:56:26,720 --> 00:56:30,080
And yet I was taught, well, you
have to be a member of some

833
00:56:30,080 --> 00:56:34,240
particular organization in order
to do that.

834
00:56:34,480 --> 00:56:38,800
But I'm watching the movement of
God and all of these different

835
00:56:38,800 --> 00:56:43,040
congregations.
And so that even encourages me

836
00:56:43,040 --> 00:56:46,560
to read more and to study more
and.

837
00:56:47,800 --> 00:56:50,400
Do you find yourself missing
having conversations with people

838
00:56:50,400 --> 00:56:52,760
who believe as you do?
Maybe because you live in an

839
00:56:52,760 --> 00:56:55,400
area where there's not a whole
lot of Orthodox Mormons running

840
00:56:55,400 --> 00:56:58,640
around, or maybe you're an
active member of the LDS church

841
00:56:58,640 --> 00:57:01,760
or maybe even an ever Mormon,
but you're really curious about

842
00:57:01,760 --> 00:57:04,440
what the faith teaches.
Well, I have something here for

843
00:57:04,440 --> 00:57:07,480
you today that you might like.
Now, every Thursday night at

844
00:57:07,480 --> 00:57:11,000
7:00 PM Central, Taylor Smith
teaches a class on gospel

845
00:57:11,000 --> 00:57:13,680
fundamentals from a very
orthodox point of view.

846
00:57:14,200 --> 00:57:16,600
He will cover everything from
the nature of God to some of the

847
00:57:16,600 --> 00:57:19,640
deeper doctrines of the faith.
Now to join the class, all you

848
00:57:19,640 --> 00:57:23,000
got to do is click the link in
this episode, show notes and on

849
00:57:23,000 --> 00:57:25,680
Thursdays at 7:00 PM Central and
join the class.

850
00:57:26,240 --> 00:57:29,400
It's an easy place where you can
be as open or private as you

851
00:57:29,400 --> 00:57:30,720
want.
It's all up to you.

852
00:57:31,280 --> 00:57:34,640
Again, all you guys do is on
Thursday night, hit that link in

853
00:57:34,640 --> 00:57:37,880
this episode show notes and you
can log on to the Gospel

854
00:57:37,880 --> 00:57:39,800
Fundamentals class taught by
Taylor Smith.

855
00:57:40,240 --> 00:57:41,640
Thanks and I hope to see you
there.

856
00:57:42,520 --> 00:57:45,600
And I'm never going.
I can't throw away the

857
00:57:45,600 --> 00:57:50,080
restoration, nor would I want to
because it is the foundation

858
00:57:50,200 --> 00:57:54,360
that I, that I.
It's the strong, the rock

859
00:57:54,400 --> 00:57:57,920
foundation that that my life is
built upon.

860
00:57:59,240 --> 00:58:02,560
You know, I've heard that said
before, right?

861
00:58:02,560 --> 00:58:06,960
That that Mormonism doesn't have
the, the market cornered on

862
00:58:06,960 --> 00:58:09,640
truth.
And for the most part, I, I

863
00:58:09,640 --> 00:58:11,520
believe that, right?
I think you can find truth in

864
00:58:11,520 --> 00:58:12,760
all religion.
I really do.

865
00:58:12,760 --> 00:58:17,760
However, I will say this, Joseph
doesn't leave you a lot of

866
00:58:17,760 --> 00:58:20,960
wiggle room, right?
Let let me rephrase that.

867
00:58:21,120 --> 00:58:24,120
The Lord in Joseph's first
vision doesn't leave us a lot of

868
00:58:24,120 --> 00:58:27,800
wiggle room, right, Right,
'cause he tells Joseph, look,

869
00:58:27,840 --> 00:58:32,000
all the creeds, all, all, all
the church's creeds are an

870
00:58:32,000 --> 00:58:35,600
abomination before me, right,
'cause they drop near to me with

871
00:58:35,600 --> 00:58:37,560
their lips, but their hearts are
far from me.

872
00:58:38,480 --> 00:58:41,280
So Joseph does through that
vision.

873
00:58:41,280 --> 00:58:44,840
There is a stark line I feel
like is drawn right now.

874
00:58:45,200 --> 00:58:49,360
It's, it's one of those things
you have to look at and say, OK,

875
00:58:49,360 --> 00:58:51,160
so there's obviously something
going on here.

876
00:58:51,160 --> 00:58:54,960
If you believe that Joseph had
the, the, the first vision and

877
00:58:54,960 --> 00:58:57,720
that the Lord told him the
things that he told them, that

878
00:58:57,720 --> 00:59:02,400
doesn't leave you a lot of room
for, for, for the middle ground,

879
00:59:02,400 --> 00:59:04,160
right?
You can go search out truth in

880
00:59:04,160 --> 00:59:06,400
other places, but at the end of
the day, it's all got to be

881
00:59:06,400 --> 00:59:08,600
filtered back by Mormonism,
right?

882
00:59:10,040 --> 00:59:12,600
Right.
Well, well, and that's where my

883
00:59:12,600 --> 00:59:17,600
filter is going to be.
I can't, I cannot not filter it

884
00:59:17,600 --> 00:59:21,680
through Mormonism because that's
when I'm read, when I was

885
00:59:21,680 --> 00:59:28,120
reading the Nagamati texts, then
I'm finding things in the

886
00:59:28,120 --> 00:59:32,320
Nagamati texts and I'm like,
wait, this was buried in a clay

887
00:59:32,320 --> 00:59:39,720
jar in a desert for 2000 years.
And it's not that they don't

888
00:59:39,720 --> 00:59:45,800
find it until 1949 or whatever
in in the Nagamati region.

889
00:59:46,200 --> 00:59:53,160
And because a priest from that
particular monastery, when they

890
00:59:53,160 --> 00:59:57,280
said these are unauthorized
books, destroy them.

891
00:59:57,560 --> 01:00:03,800
Then there was some priest, God
bless his, God bless him that he

892
01:00:03,800 --> 01:00:07,600
said no.
And he said, he said, I just

893
01:00:07,600 --> 01:00:11,440
spent 10 years writing all this
stuff and you're not going to

894
01:00:11,440 --> 01:00:13,400
tell me to burn it.
No.

895
01:00:13,480 --> 01:00:16,440
And he went and buried it in a
clay jar in the middle of the

896
01:00:16,440 --> 01:00:19,400
desert.
And now we've got it and I'm

897
01:00:19,400 --> 01:00:22,000
reading some of those things
that I'm going, how did the

898
01:00:22,000 --> 01:00:26,200
Prophet Joseph know about it?
How did he, how did he know this

899
01:00:26,200 --> 01:00:28,120
doctrine?
How did he know that?

900
01:00:28,440 --> 01:00:32,880
And so when I'm looking at it,
I'm just like going, man, I, I

901
01:00:32,880 --> 01:00:37,760
hope that I get to meet that,
that monk, one of these in the

902
01:00:37,760 --> 01:00:41,600
sweet by and by, I guess I hope
that I get to meet that monk and

903
01:00:41,600 --> 01:00:45,040
literally tell him thank you,
right, thank you.

904
01:00:45,240 --> 01:00:48,920
Because because he did not allow
when they were telling him to

905
01:00:48,960 --> 01:00:51,760
burn and destroy something.
He was like, no way.

906
01:00:52,480 --> 01:00:56,560
And so he hid stuff.
And then truth was able to, to

907
01:00:56,560 --> 01:01:00,040
come from a different direction.
And God said truth is

908
01:01:00,040 --> 01:01:02,600
independent in that sphere in
which it was created.

909
01:01:02,840 --> 01:01:08,000
So when I find truth, and like
you said, it's, it's, it's

910
01:01:08,000 --> 01:01:12,480
truth, I, I don't have to
qualify whether the Buddha tells

911
01:01:12,480 --> 01:01:19,000
me something or, or, or one of
the prophets of the restoration,

912
01:01:19,680 --> 01:01:22,240
then I'm just like, well, is it
true or not?

913
01:01:22,280 --> 01:01:25,840
And that's kind of the way that
I'm reading scripture.

914
01:01:26,120 --> 01:01:29,560
And I also take it, try to take
it to the source.

915
01:01:30,000 --> 01:01:34,640
Sure, because then God doesn't
lie, nor can he lie because he

916
01:01:34,640 --> 01:01:37,000
says I'm the way, the truth and
the life.

917
01:01:37,440 --> 01:01:40,680
And so so he he can't.
He's the truth.

918
01:01:41,640 --> 01:01:46,000
And so when I find truth, then I
know that the source that it

919
01:01:46,000 --> 01:01:47,720
comes from.
Gotcha, gotcha.

920
01:01:48,760 --> 01:01:50,560
So I got to ask you other
questions.

921
01:01:50,840 --> 01:01:53,600
How's your sweet wife feel about
this as you're going through

922
01:01:53,600 --> 01:02:00,120
this now?
He was leaving the church at the

923
01:02:00,120 --> 01:02:03,080
same time for much for different
reasons.

924
01:02:03,560 --> 01:02:08,120
So pretty much now she is not
interested in religion.

925
01:02:08,880 --> 01:02:12,840
She just isn't gotcha.
But she's spiritual.

926
01:02:13,800 --> 01:02:19,720
And so, so we're kind of, we're
kind of leaving the corporation

927
01:02:19,720 --> 01:02:24,440
of the Church of Jesus Christ of
Latter Day Saints up in Salt

928
01:02:24,440 --> 01:02:29,640
Lake at the same time.
And, and when I was telling you

929
01:02:29,640 --> 01:02:33,520
the story where, where God told
me do not wish or where you're

930
01:02:33,520 --> 01:02:37,800
not welcome.
Then that next Sunday, I went

931
01:02:37,800 --> 01:02:45,280
out to Rocky Ridge to the to the
AUB and it was brother Malcolm

932
01:02:45,280 --> 01:02:48,320
and I were having a conversation
after church.

933
01:02:48,320 --> 01:02:50,720
So we're just talking and I
said, well, I'm going to be

934
01:02:50,760 --> 01:02:54,040
coming out here and I'm going to
be spending more time at Rocky

935
01:02:54,040 --> 01:02:56,040
Ridge.
And he says, oh, that's good.

936
01:02:56,400 --> 01:02:59,720
And then he used the words that
God had used with me.

937
01:03:00,320 --> 01:03:04,000
And then he said Brother Tracy
and I can't do his English

938
01:03:04,000 --> 01:03:05,680
accent, so I'm not even going to
try.

939
01:03:06,240 --> 01:03:10,040
But but he said, Brother Tracy,
you and your gun are both

940
01:03:10,040 --> 01:03:13,720
welcome here.
Remember, God told me do not

941
01:03:13,720 --> 01:03:15,280
worship where you're not
welcome.

942
01:03:15,680 --> 01:03:20,320
Right?
Well, well then, then he used

943
01:03:20,320 --> 01:03:25,120
those very words and I hadn't
told him that, but he says you

944
01:03:25,120 --> 01:03:27,360
and your gun are both welcome
here.

945
01:03:27,800 --> 01:03:32,800
And so for a couple of years,
I'm I'm going to church and I'm

946
01:03:32,800 --> 01:03:39,240
going out to Rocky Ridge and
then in and watch this brother

947
01:03:39,240 --> 01:03:42,640
Dave.
I have personally been invited

948
01:03:42,640 --> 01:03:48,240
during a sacrament meeting to
preach at but in Rocky Ridge two

949
01:03:48,240 --> 01:03:54,920
times not a member of the order,
but I've it Why?

950
01:03:54,920 --> 01:03:58,040
Because God has given me.
That's one of the gifts that God

951
01:03:58,040 --> 01:04:02,760
has given to me is the.
If I go to a church, then it's

952
01:04:02,760 --> 01:04:05,640
not going to be uncommon for me
to be called up.

953
01:04:06,280 --> 01:04:10,920
And, and if I can share the
first time it was Brother

954
01:04:10,920 --> 01:04:15,840
Malcolm that called me up.
And so I went up and I can see

955
01:04:15,840 --> 01:04:23,520
fear on his eyes and, and this
is my perception because I think

956
01:04:23,520 --> 01:04:26,240
that he didn't know why he's
calling me up other than the

957
01:04:26,240 --> 01:04:28,040
Spirit of God told him he had
to.

958
01:04:28,320 --> 01:04:31,400
So God told him he had to.
So I'm walking up there and

959
01:04:31,400 --> 01:04:35,120
before I walk to the pulpit,
I'll, I go to him and I say

960
01:04:35,120 --> 01:04:39,880
Brother Malcolm, I consider it
an honor and a privilege to be

961
01:04:39,880 --> 01:04:44,200
invited to stand at this pulpit
and speak before the people.

962
01:04:44,640 --> 01:04:48,920
And remember I said that a guy
always give me 5 minutes at

963
01:04:48,920 --> 01:04:51,800
least.
Well, so I knew and I had tried

964
01:04:51,800 --> 01:04:54,160
to prepare some things and
that's weird.

965
01:04:54,160 --> 01:04:57,920
Why would I be getting called in
Rocky Ridge to speak?

966
01:04:57,920 --> 01:05:04,440
But as I'm coming up to the, as
I, as I walk to the public that

967
01:05:04,440 --> 01:05:09,360
God tells me you're not going to
say what you say.

968
01:05:09,360 --> 01:05:11,800
You're going to say what I say.
I don't know if you've ever

969
01:05:11,800 --> 01:05:15,600
experienced it, where, where,
where things are popping out of

970
01:05:15,600 --> 01:05:18,880
your mouth and it's you're,
you're hearing them at the same

971
01:05:18,880 --> 01:05:21,600
time that they're coming out.
It's not, it's not a

972
01:05:21,600 --> 01:05:24,600
forethought.
It's just like, and it's blowing

973
01:05:24,600 --> 01:05:27,000
my mind because I'm standing at
this pulpit.

974
01:05:27,600 --> 01:05:32,200
I'm still a member of the of the
The Church of Jesus Christ of

975
01:05:32,200 --> 01:05:35,240
the Latter Day Saints
headquartered in Salt Lake.

976
01:05:36,320 --> 01:05:41,920
And and then I hear coming out
of my mouth that I need to

977
01:05:41,920 --> 01:05:47,000
apologize to the people of God
because I have judged the people

978
01:05:47,080 --> 01:05:55,600
in a wrongful manner.
And then something that that I

979
01:05:55,600 --> 01:06:03,200
had never experienced before,
but in my ears, I'm looking over

980
01:06:03,200 --> 01:06:07,280
the congregation and in all of
the groups of the families,

981
01:06:07,280 --> 01:06:09,720
there's like 700 people in this
congregation.

982
01:06:10,080 --> 01:06:12,880
And then all of a sudden I
literally hear the walls of

983
01:06:12,880 --> 01:06:15,880
Jericho of current crumbling
down.

984
01:06:16,160 --> 01:06:21,840
And I hear, hey, this family.
And it just says, and then over

985
01:06:21,840 --> 01:06:25,280
here on the other side, and then
it just starts happening.

986
01:06:25,400 --> 01:06:30,000
And it's just, it's literally
shaking in my head and I'm like,

987
01:06:30,000 --> 01:06:34,720
how can everybody not hear this?
And then after all of that, and

988
01:06:34,720 --> 01:06:38,880
now that it goes quiet because
all the walls of Jericho would

989
01:06:38,880 --> 01:06:41,920
come, then God says, now you can
say whatever you want to say

990
01:06:41,920 --> 01:06:47,160
because they can hear you.
And I was like, wow.

991
01:06:47,480 --> 01:06:50,640
And so I gave him a message on
hope and how God loved him and,

992
01:06:50,880 --> 01:06:54,200
and other things.
But the most important thing is

993
01:06:54,200 --> 01:06:57,760
that because I listened to the
Spirit and did what I was

994
01:06:57,760 --> 01:07:02,920
supposed to do.
Then God made it so that the P

995
01:07:02,920 --> 01:07:07,520
his people were able to hear me
and and I had to look at things

996
01:07:07,520 --> 01:07:11,560
a lot different because then all
of a sudden I had started asking

997
01:07:11,560 --> 01:07:12,920
a question.
Well, do they have the

998
01:07:12,920 --> 01:07:17,640
priesthood and the answer that I
received, and I won't name the

999
01:07:17,720 --> 01:07:19,840
name, but one of my good friends
out there.

1000
01:07:20,440 --> 01:07:29,560
Then God says God says that you
and Ben have the exact same

1001
01:07:29,560 --> 01:07:32,720
priesthood.
And I was like what?

1002
01:07:34,200 --> 01:07:38,080
And now my being ordained a high
priest.

1003
01:07:38,080 --> 01:07:43,880
And then when they say that it
got messed up, then my lineage

1004
01:07:44,440 --> 01:07:48,800
goes around the mess up part.
So anyway, it was, it was

1005
01:07:48,800 --> 01:07:53,440
amazing and I had to rethink
things and go wait a second.

1006
01:07:54,360 --> 01:07:57,600
The the church in Salt Lake is
telling me these people are

1007
01:07:57,600 --> 01:08:01,200
apostate, yet I'm coming to
their church and they have the

1008
01:08:01,200 --> 01:08:04,280
Spirit of God and God just told
me that they have the same

1009
01:08:04,280 --> 01:08:07,360
priesthood that I have.
And so who am I to try to be

1010
01:08:07,360 --> 01:08:10,760
judging anybody?
So I have.

1011
01:08:11,440 --> 01:08:14,160
So the Lord kind of busted up
the one man doctrine for you,

1012
01:08:14,160 --> 01:08:14,720
right?
There.

1013
01:08:14,720 --> 01:08:20,040
Oh yeah, Took a sledgehammer to
it, I think, right.

1014
01:08:20,040 --> 01:08:22,319
I was glad that he was using the
sledgehammer because that's how

1015
01:08:22,319 --> 01:08:26,040
the Walls of Jericho fell down.
Gotcha.

1016
01:08:27,000 --> 01:08:30,720
OK.
So at some point the study of

1017
01:08:30,720 --> 01:08:35,200
the Torah and Jewish tradition
starts to become very important

1018
01:08:35,200 --> 01:08:37,000
for you.
At what point does does this

1019
01:08:37,000 --> 01:08:39,319
start to play in for you?
Because this will segue into

1020
01:08:39,319 --> 01:08:45,439
your book here.
I, I was looking through and,

1021
01:08:47,800 --> 01:08:52,399
and, and I started looking and
it was like 2013 was when I got

1022
01:08:52,399 --> 01:08:54,920
to personally meet Rabbi Daniel
Lappin.

1023
01:08:55,439 --> 01:08:59,160
Now Rabbi, Rabbi, he's America's
rabbi.

1024
01:08:59,160 --> 01:09:02,200
He says everyone needs a rabbi,
whether you're Jewish or not.

1025
01:09:02,760 --> 01:09:08,120
And I got to meet Rabbi Lappin
and, and I says Rabbi, I'm a,

1026
01:09:08,120 --> 01:09:12,720
I'm a dumb country boy.
I don't speak nor read Hebrew.

1027
01:09:13,399 --> 01:09:17,920
And his answer to me was one
word yet.

1028
01:09:19,560 --> 01:09:23,160
And he planted a seed in me that
day.

1029
01:09:23,680 --> 01:09:29,920
And I was just like, wow.
And then, then I then I got, I

1030
01:09:29,920 --> 01:09:36,520
got the Geneva Bible and, and as
I got it, then I was given an

1031
01:09:36,520 --> 01:09:40,920
instruction that says I want
you, you love the book of

1032
01:09:40,920 --> 01:09:43,279
Proverbs.
So what I would like you to do

1033
01:09:43,479 --> 01:09:46,800
is I would like you to, to just
read the book of Proverbs from

1034
01:09:46,800 --> 01:09:51,240
the King James and from the from
the Geneva Bible and just read

1035
01:09:51,240 --> 01:09:54,160
it side by side and see if you
find differences.

1036
01:09:55,520 --> 01:10:00,000
And then all of a sudden in the
3rd chapter, it said, it said

1037
01:10:00,000 --> 01:10:08,280
it, it would, it said that you
are to give of your substance to

1038
01:10:08,280 --> 01:10:11,360
the Lord.
But in the, and that's in the

1039
01:10:11,360 --> 01:10:15,040
King James in the Geneva Bible,
it says you're to give of your

1040
01:10:15,200 --> 01:10:22,000
riches to the Lord.
And I, and I got so mad and me

1041
01:10:22,000 --> 01:10:25,560
and God, I thought that was, I
thought I'd be able to punch him

1042
01:10:25,560 --> 01:10:30,040
off the throne.
I I said because they use this

1043
01:10:30,040 --> 01:10:35,800
word substance instead of riches
and the the Hebrew word when I

1044
01:10:35,800 --> 01:10:39,920
looked it up, it was like
abundance, prosperity, overflow.

1045
01:10:41,960 --> 01:10:48,760
And I got mad because I was
like, so for 400 years, popes,

1046
01:10:48,760 --> 01:10:53,680
kings, priests, apostles,
prophets, magistrates, all the

1047
01:10:53,680 --> 01:10:57,440
people that are over the
churches have been able to lie

1048
01:10:57,440 --> 01:11:02,480
to the people and say, look,
Luke, Brother Dave, you give

1049
01:11:02,480 --> 01:11:06,880
your money to God first and then
God will bless you.

1050
01:11:07,480 --> 01:11:10,600
Oh, your children can't, you
can't pay your electric bill.

1051
01:11:10,840 --> 01:11:13,360
Don't worry about that.
You can't feed your children.

1052
01:11:13,480 --> 01:11:16,600
Don't worry about that.
You pay it to God first.

1053
01:11:17,160 --> 01:11:20,840
But in the in the Hebrew it was
telling me that you're I'm

1054
01:11:20,840 --> 01:11:25,520
supposed to give from my
overflow, not from my substance.

1055
01:11:26,120 --> 01:11:28,760
Which, interestingly enough, is
the way it reads in the Doctrine

1056
01:11:28,760 --> 01:11:30,400
and Covenants when it talks
about time.

1057
01:11:31,040 --> 01:11:34,720
I know so section 119 of the
doctor and the covenants is

1058
01:11:34,720 --> 01:11:39,000
going to, we're going to find
that that after I enter into a

1059
01:11:39,000 --> 01:11:43,480
covenant, then I'm to give of my
increase.

1060
01:11:44,080 --> 01:11:48,520
So my overflow.
And so I there it is.

1061
01:11:48,520 --> 01:11:50,840
And yet the church wasn't
preaching that.

1062
01:11:50,840 --> 01:11:56,080
And so I have heard from from
conference on numerous occasions

1063
01:11:56,400 --> 01:12:01,160
where someone would get up and
say, oh, we didn't have any food

1064
01:12:01,160 --> 01:12:03,920
at home.
And, and I saw my dad give our

1065
01:12:03,920 --> 01:12:07,680
last money and I was just like,
that's not what the scripture

1066
01:12:07,680 --> 01:12:11,880
says in the old scripture nor in
the restored scripture.

1067
01:12:12,680 --> 01:12:16,040
It doesn't tell you to give when
you're broke.

1068
01:12:16,720 --> 01:12:19,960
It says if you're broke, then
you don't have to give.

1069
01:12:20,440 --> 01:12:23,560
And so that's going to start me.
That's kind of starting me down

1070
01:12:23,560 --> 01:12:25,360
a path.
Gotcha.

1071
01:12:25,840 --> 01:12:30,480
Where where I'm where I'm
reading the Old Testament and

1072
01:12:31,160 --> 01:12:37,680
probably the one chapter is
Leviticus Chapter 23 changed my

1073
01:12:37,680 --> 01:12:42,560
whole world because that in that
chapter, it's going to give the

1074
01:12:42,560 --> 01:12:45,400
seven holy days that are
commanded.

1075
01:12:45,920 --> 01:12:50,760
And then God uses this Hebrew
term and I'm anytime I'm trying

1076
01:12:50,760 --> 01:12:53,960
to say a Hebrew word, then I'm
using my best Texas Hebrew.

1077
01:12:53,960 --> 01:12:59,000
So just be advised of that.
But he says that this is going

1078
01:12:59,000 --> 01:13:05,600
to be for my people forever or
for Leolim, which is forever.

1079
01:13:07,040 --> 01:13:09,800
And I'm like, well, how long is
can you help me?

1080
01:13:09,880 --> 01:13:14,280
How long is forever?
Is that a week, a month, a

1081
01:13:14,640 --> 01:13:18,480
millennia?
Or did God really mean forever?

1082
01:13:19,760 --> 01:13:25,400
And then God, then God says, and
see, now I might get in trouble

1083
01:13:25,400 --> 01:13:29,440
when I if I'm going on to this
path, but I'll go on it anyway.

1084
01:13:29,800 --> 01:13:36,600
And then God says, and by the
way, my people will keep my

1085
01:13:36,600 --> 01:13:41,280
Sabbaths.
And that's how you're going to

1086
01:13:41,360 --> 01:13:44,520
know who they are.
If they keep my holy days and

1087
01:13:44,520 --> 01:13:50,920
they can count to 7, then and
they can understand that on the

1088
01:13:50,920 --> 01:13:56,680
7th day, that's the Sabbath,
then then you'll know that

1089
01:13:56,680 --> 01:13:59,120
they're my people.
And so there I've got a couple

1090
01:13:59,120 --> 01:14:05,000
of easy things that I can judge
people or organizations by

1091
01:14:05,240 --> 01:14:10,000
according to the word of God and
and people say, well, the

1092
01:14:10,000 --> 01:14:13,720
Prophet Joseph didn't change it
and I'm just like going well,

1093
01:14:13,920 --> 01:14:17,480
the Prophet Joseph also said,
every time that I try to try to

1094
01:14:17,720 --> 01:14:22,960
try to bring a new something
into the mix, then y'all fall

1095
01:14:22,960 --> 01:14:25,520
apart like a piece of glass, you
know you.

1096
01:14:26,360 --> 01:14:32,920
And so I believe if he had not
been murdered and martyred, the

1097
01:14:32,920 --> 01:14:39,160
the likelihood is he would have
restored the holy days and also

1098
01:14:39,160 --> 01:14:43,600
restored the Sabbath because
the, the Sabbath.

1099
01:14:43,600 --> 01:14:46,840
And we could go into, and we're
not going to go into all of the

1100
01:14:46,840 --> 01:14:51,720
details, but that is going to be
ordered by Constantine on the

1101
01:14:51,720 --> 01:14:57,480
Roman people and then by Pope
Sylvester is going to say that

1102
01:14:57,480 --> 01:15:05,080
the, the, the venerable day of
the Lord Sunday, Sol Invictus,

1103
01:15:05,160 --> 01:15:08,000
that is the day that we're now
going to keep the Sabbath.

1104
01:15:08,400 --> 01:15:13,440
And so anybody that is
worshipping on Sol Invictus then

1105
01:15:13,480 --> 01:15:19,280
on Sunday, then I can know that
that particular organization

1106
01:15:19,280 --> 01:15:27,240
hasn't quite got it right.
And but I but here's the thing,

1107
01:15:27,400 --> 01:15:31,480
I do worship on the Sabbath on
Saturday and I love to go to

1108
01:15:31,480 --> 01:15:34,160
church with my good friends on
Sunday too.

1109
01:15:34,560 --> 01:15:37,800
So sometimes my wife gets mad at
me because she says will you

1110
01:15:37,800 --> 01:15:42,080
keep 2 Sabbaths you mess up the
whole weekend.

1111
01:15:42,440 --> 01:15:46,800
So anyway, that's kind of.
So that leads you into a study

1112
01:15:46,800 --> 01:15:49,080
of of Judaism, right?
Yes.

1113
01:15:49,800 --> 01:15:52,160
And now I want to pivot to the
book because I feel like the

1114
01:15:52,160 --> 01:15:55,440
book is is pretty important
here.

1115
01:15:55,920 --> 01:15:59,160
So explain the book.
What is the book?

1116
01:16:00,920 --> 01:16:05,880
The and and I want I'm going to
back up just a little bit.

1117
01:16:06,800 --> 01:16:10,320
I'm reading the New Testament
and as I'm reading the New

1118
01:16:10,320 --> 01:16:14,800
Testament, I keep on finding
these phrases and they'll be

1119
01:16:14,800 --> 01:16:20,160
phrases like for it is written.
You've heard it said of Oh,

1120
01:16:21,200 --> 01:16:23,240
don't you remember what Moses
taught you?

1121
01:16:23,640 --> 01:16:28,160
Isaiah said, Jeremiah said.
And so I'm finding all of these

1122
01:16:28,160 --> 01:16:33,520
phrases and me being a simple
country boy from East Texas, I'm

1123
01:16:33,520 --> 01:16:37,480
thinking, I've got these awesome
scriptures because I'm part of

1124
01:16:37,480 --> 01:16:42,040
the restoration and they have
really good footnotes in the

1125
01:16:42,040 --> 01:16:47,160
bottom of them.
And so now I'm thinking, oh, if

1126
01:16:47,200 --> 01:16:51,080
Jesus says for it is written
all, all I have to do is go to

1127
01:16:51,080 --> 01:16:54,560
the bottom of the page and it
will tell me that Jesus just

1128
01:16:54,560 --> 01:17:00,640
quoted from Isaiah chapter 61
verse 1 and 2 1/2.

1129
01:17:02,200 --> 01:17:04,520
And guess what I did?
I went to the bottom of the

1130
01:17:04,520 --> 01:17:08,800
page, nothing.
And I went to the bottom of the

1131
01:17:08,800 --> 01:17:14,360
page, nothing.
And then God finally says to me,

1132
01:17:14,480 --> 01:17:18,560
and once again, I don't know how
people speak to the divinity or

1133
01:17:18,560 --> 01:17:21,600
speak to deity.
All I know is how we communicate

1134
01:17:21,800 --> 01:17:26,680
me and and God communicate.
He says, you want to know why

1135
01:17:28,040 --> 01:17:29,720
there's nothing in the
footnotes?

1136
01:17:30,400 --> 01:17:34,760
And I said and I said kind of.
And he says, I'm going to tell

1137
01:17:34,760 --> 01:17:38,760
you because it's your
assignment.

1138
01:17:39,800 --> 01:17:42,800
And I was just like, really,
God, I can give you.

1139
01:17:42,960 --> 01:17:44,680
I know people like Brother Dave
here.

1140
01:17:44,840 --> 01:17:48,680
I know people, I know real
scholars of the gospel.

1141
01:17:48,840 --> 01:17:53,440
I can give you the addresses,
the emails and phone numbers of

1142
01:17:53,840 --> 01:17:57,880
30 real scholars of the Bible.
They could do it better than me.

1143
01:17:57,880 --> 01:18:00,440
And God said, no, they can't.
And so Brother Dave, what I

1144
01:18:00,440 --> 01:18:06,160
found that I haven't always
known is that if God gives Dave

1145
01:18:06,400 --> 01:18:12,520
an assignment, a mission, a
calling, however you need to put

1146
01:18:12,520 --> 01:18:19,680
it that there is nobody that has
ever walked on this earth that

1147
01:18:19,680 --> 01:18:22,560
can do your assignment.
Nobody that's ever walked on the

1148
01:18:22,560 --> 01:18:24,720
earth or ever will walk on the
earth.

1149
01:18:25,320 --> 01:18:29,840
So when when people try to, to
limit God and, and say, oh,

1150
01:18:29,840 --> 01:18:34,400
there's a backup plan, I was
like, there ain't a backup plan.

1151
01:18:34,400 --> 01:18:37,680
If brother Dave doesn't do what
he's assigned to do, it doesn't

1152
01:18:37,680 --> 01:18:41,040
get done.
And that's what I learned in my

1153
01:18:41,040 --> 01:18:45,960
whole study was God gave me an
assignment for whatever reason,

1154
01:18:46,240 --> 01:18:49,480
and if I didn't do it, it just
wouldn't get done.

1155
01:18:50,120 --> 01:18:52,680
Gotcha.
So.

1156
01:18:54,080 --> 01:19:00,640
So what's the book about?
What it is, is it is the

1157
01:19:00,640 --> 01:19:06,600
intertextual relationship
between the New Testament and

1158
01:19:06,600 --> 01:19:12,960
the Old Testament plain English.
How often do the authors of the

1159
01:19:12,960 --> 01:19:16,520
New Testament quote or make
reference to the Old?

1160
01:19:17,080 --> 01:19:20,280
OK.
And my answer, my quick answer

1161
01:19:20,280 --> 01:19:29,680
to you would be on my count,
1283 times on my count or about

1162
01:19:29,680 --> 01:19:36,800
every 6.2 verses.
So if you're reading and what I

1163
01:19:36,800 --> 01:19:42,120
learned now, so every six verses
that you're reading in the New

1164
01:19:42,120 --> 01:19:43,480
Testament.
So if you're in the book of

1165
01:19:43,480 --> 01:19:47,960
Matthew, every six verses, then
you can count on one of those 6

1166
01:19:47,960 --> 01:19:51,920
verses is going to be making a
reference back to the Old

1167
01:19:51,920 --> 01:19:57,520
Testament and oftentimes
literally quoting some of the

1168
01:19:57,520 --> 01:20:02,320
prophets in the Old Testament.
And then when you get to the end

1169
01:20:02,320 --> 01:20:07,320
of the book, when you get to the
Book of Revelation, it is every

1170
01:20:07,320 --> 01:20:13,800
1.96 verses, so less than every
two verses.

1171
01:20:14,480 --> 01:20:20,200
And so now I know that if you
don't have the the Old Testament

1172
01:20:20,200 --> 01:20:24,960
memorized, then you have no
business even opening the Book

1173
01:20:24,960 --> 01:20:29,320
of Revelation.
Because you're probably

1174
01:20:29,320 --> 01:20:33,760
operating with arithmetic, and
the Book of Revelation is

1175
01:20:33,760 --> 01:20:39,640
calculus.
OK, so you, before we go that

1176
01:20:39,640 --> 01:20:46,080
deep, I, I want to talk about
your process and how you, how

1177
01:20:46,080 --> 01:20:48,520
you managed to put this all
together, right?

1178
01:20:48,960 --> 01:20:52,120
Because some, as you stated,
there's, there's literal

1179
01:20:52,120 --> 01:20:55,360
quoting, right?
We get that with Jesus in the in

1180
01:20:55,360 --> 01:20:58,120
the desert when he's being
tempted, right?

1181
01:20:58,400 --> 01:21:01,720
He quotes scripture at the
adversary to repel him.

1182
01:21:02,240 --> 01:21:04,880
But then there's subtleties,
right?

1183
01:21:05,120 --> 01:21:09,080
Where the subtleties it's
referencing back to the Old

1184
01:21:09,080 --> 01:21:13,040
Testament very subtly.
How did you pick up on the on

1185
01:21:13,040 --> 01:21:16,480
that subtlety?
I mean, what, what, what was it

1186
01:21:16,480 --> 01:21:19,440
that that you were able to sit
down and look at the text and

1187
01:21:19,440 --> 01:21:23,120
go, Oh yeah, that references
back here, the Old Testament and

1188
01:21:23,120 --> 01:21:25,720
whatever book, whatever verse.
How'd you how'd you get there?

1189
01:21:28,200 --> 01:21:33,960
Through reading the transcript
too many times and one of the

1190
01:21:33,960 --> 01:21:38,880
gifts I think that God has given
me is that I can recall things.

1191
01:21:39,160 --> 01:21:43,480
And so now if I know that you're
going to be preaching A sermon

1192
01:21:43,560 --> 01:21:47,200
at church and I'm going to the
church, I might be scared.

1193
01:21:47,280 --> 01:21:49,560
And one of the reason why I'm
scared is comes like Brother

1194
01:21:49,560 --> 01:21:52,080
Dave's going to connect a dot
that I missed.

1195
01:21:54,360 --> 01:21:57,280
I'm not that I'm not that sharp,
I'm just curious how you got

1196
01:21:57,280 --> 01:22:00,960
there is all.
And so, So what I did was

1197
01:22:00,960 --> 01:22:05,680
because I'm very simple and I'm
thinking if, if I can ask a

1198
01:22:05,680 --> 01:22:08,840
question, someone else has to
have asked that question.

1199
01:22:09,120 --> 01:22:12,880
OK.
And so I start going, oh, So

1200
01:22:12,880 --> 01:22:16,080
what I'm thinking about has
probably already been done.

1201
01:22:17,000 --> 01:22:20,040
And so I start doing some
searches and different things

1202
01:22:20,560 --> 01:22:26,440
and I find I'll find a scholar
that did and, and found the like

1203
01:22:26,440 --> 01:22:33,440
a 500 verses that he connected
in the back of the Bible

1204
01:22:33,440 --> 01:22:36,240
dictionary.
Then it's got, it's got like

1205
01:22:36,440 --> 01:22:40,400
maybe 30 verses that are showing
a connection between the Old and

1206
01:22:40,400 --> 01:22:43,640
the New Testament.
And so I would find these little

1207
01:22:43,640 --> 01:22:49,920
list of things and but I wasn't
finding a comprehensive list

1208
01:22:50,040 --> 01:22:52,400
anywhere.
And then someone would come

1209
01:22:52,400 --> 01:22:57,880
along and they would ask me
questions like I, I had the a

1210
01:22:57,880 --> 01:23:02,240
lady and she sent me a text one
day and she says, can you tell

1211
01:23:02,240 --> 01:23:07,520
me which book of the Bible that
Yeshua quotes from the most?

1212
01:23:08,240 --> 01:23:12,400
So which Bible, which book of
the Bible does the Old Testament

1213
01:23:12,640 --> 01:23:14,480
is Jesus going to be quoting
from?

1214
01:23:15,200 --> 01:23:20,560
And so immediately my, you know,
I'm scholarly man and I know the

1215
01:23:20,560 --> 01:23:23,920
scriptures.
My immediate response was, oh,

1216
01:23:23,920 --> 01:23:28,200
that has to be Deuteronomy and
God said what?

1217
01:23:28,200 --> 01:23:29,960
You need to go check the
sources.

1218
01:23:30,760 --> 01:23:33,040
And anytime that I hear those
kind of things that I know that

1219
01:23:33,040 --> 01:23:36,240
I got the wrong answer.
So I start, I start doing a

1220
01:23:36,240 --> 01:23:43,320
study and, and I find that the
book of Psalms is the number one

1221
01:23:43,320 --> 01:23:47,400
book that Jesus is going to
quote from then Deuteronomy,

1222
01:23:48,000 --> 01:23:55,000
then Exodus, then Isaiah.
And from that, from that

1223
01:23:55,000 --> 01:24:00,520
exercise that's going to take me
down, down a road that's going

1224
01:24:00,520 --> 01:24:06,200
to add another 100 verses to my,
to my whole process.

1225
01:24:06,760 --> 01:24:14,280
But when, when I first started
in it, I got a book and I was

1226
01:24:14,280 --> 01:24:16,200
excited because I thought that
it was good.

1227
01:24:17,200 --> 01:24:18,960
And God said, print what you've
got.

1228
01:24:18,960 --> 01:24:20,240
And I said it hadn't been
edited.

1229
01:24:20,240 --> 01:24:22,480
It's not ready.
God said print it now.

1230
01:24:23,160 --> 01:24:29,320
So I print it and two days after
I sent it to the printer, then

1231
01:24:29,960 --> 01:24:34,720
the void, the word comes to my
mind is like, hey, how many

1232
01:24:34,720 --> 01:24:39,880
times did the Passover?
How many times is the Passover

1233
01:24:39,880 --> 01:24:42,800
mentioned?
And I went, I never asked that

1234
01:24:42,800 --> 01:24:44,920
question.
Well, God said, well, I'm asking

1235
01:24:44,920 --> 01:24:46,440
you the question, how many
times?

1236
01:24:46,880 --> 01:24:50,920
So what I found was that the
Passover is mentioned 31 times

1237
01:24:51,280 --> 01:24:56,520
in the New Testament.
And of the 31 times I had two

1238
01:24:57,640 --> 01:25:01,920
references.
And so before my first printing

1239
01:25:01,920 --> 01:25:07,040
of the smaller one volume,
before I even had it printed, I

1240
01:25:07,040 --> 01:25:10,040
knew that I had to add 29 more
new verses.

1241
01:25:10,840 --> 01:25:14,320
And they got And then God says,
well, hey, since you're doing

1242
01:25:14,320 --> 01:25:17,520
that, why don't you do the holy
days too?

1243
01:25:18,640 --> 01:25:23,240
And I was like, so now I I'm
looking for holy days through

1244
01:25:23,240 --> 01:25:27,200
all the text and I'm reading the
text and I'm finding, and that's

1245
01:25:27,200 --> 01:25:31,600
going to add about 100 more
verses to what I have.

1246
01:25:32,320 --> 01:25:37,600
And then I'm thinking I'm, I'm
coming to, I'm coming to a crew.

1247
01:25:37,600 --> 01:25:40,240
We, I've got it.
It's a little bit thicker now.

1248
01:25:41,680 --> 01:25:44,440
I'm excited, I'm ready to be
done.

1249
01:25:44,840 --> 01:25:49,360
And then then God says, hey,
remember those books that they

1250
01:25:49,360 --> 01:25:55,880
call the books of the Apocrypha?
And I said, yeah, so you want to

1251
01:25:55,880 --> 01:25:58,320
know whether they're Scripture
or not.

1252
01:25:59,000 --> 01:26:04,920
And I said, kind of.
And so why don't you go read all

1253
01:26:04,920 --> 01:26:07,520
of the books of the Apocrypha
and see how many times that they

1254
01:26:07,520 --> 01:26:12,800
are quoted quoted in the New
Testament.

1255
01:26:13,520 --> 01:26:20,040
And on my count, 402 times the
books of the Apocrypha are

1256
01:26:20,040 --> 01:26:24,640
quoted in the New Testament.
So whether I believe it's

1257
01:26:24,640 --> 01:26:29,600
Scripture or not, the authors of
the New Testament counted those

1258
01:26:29,600 --> 01:26:34,600
books that were in my 1611 King
James Bible as Scripture.

1259
01:26:35,320 --> 01:26:40,560
OK, so, so let's unpack this a
little bit and and then there's

1260
01:26:40,680 --> 01:26:42,960
there's a little bit of general
pushback I want to give here.

1261
01:26:42,960 --> 01:26:49,160
J Bush So it sounds like your
process was kind of twofold,

1262
01:26:49,160 --> 01:26:51,560
right?
You would take the littler lists

1263
01:26:51,680 --> 01:26:53,840
and you would go through those,
right?

1264
01:26:53,840 --> 01:26:56,680
Yes.
And then then those littler

1265
01:26:56,680 --> 01:26:58,840
lists would be something
somebody else did, another

1266
01:26:58,840 --> 01:27:00,600
biblical scholar or something
like that.

1267
01:27:00,720 --> 01:27:02,960
Right.
And then you would also get

1268
01:27:02,960 --> 01:27:05,680
things just as you were, as we
would expect, right?

1269
01:27:05,680 --> 01:27:09,200
You get little droplets of, of
inspiration or revelation saying

1270
01:27:09,200 --> 01:27:13,480
go look this up or, or scope
that up when you encountered

1271
01:27:13,480 --> 01:27:17,000
stuff by a, by a biblical
scholar.

1272
01:27:17,760 --> 01:27:20,520
And look, one of the things I
that drew me to Mormonism that I

1273
01:27:20,520 --> 01:27:25,400
love about Mormonism is that
it's a very holistic view of the

1274
01:27:25,400 --> 01:27:29,520
entirety of the Gospels, right?
It is, it is God's dealing with

1275
01:27:29,520 --> 01:27:36,040
people on, on, on the macro.
And so, but because of that, and

1276
01:27:36,040 --> 01:27:37,560
that's what I love about the
restoration.

1277
01:27:37,560 --> 01:27:42,320
However, there's been a lot of
of Joseph call them sectarians,

1278
01:27:42,320 --> 01:27:44,880
right?
Sectarian Christianity that has

1279
01:27:44,960 --> 01:27:49,040
focused on one part, right?
And that's really made it their

1280
01:27:49,040 --> 01:27:52,280
thing, right?
So Baptists are all about

1281
01:27:52,280 --> 01:27:55,840
baptism by immersion, right?
The Catholics are all about

1282
01:27:55,840 --> 01:27:59,680
papal succession and, and on and
on we go.

1283
01:28:01,200 --> 01:28:06,160
How were you able then to take
somebody else's list and go, OK,

1284
01:28:06,840 --> 01:28:11,520
is this true or is this not?
Because look, even I come with

1285
01:28:11,520 --> 01:28:13,240
my slants, you come with your
slants.

1286
01:28:13,240 --> 01:28:15,920
Slants are out there, right?
And we do, you know, if you're,

1287
01:28:15,920 --> 01:28:18,560
if, if you're honest, you do
your best to get rid of them,

1288
01:28:18,560 --> 01:28:21,040
but they'll always come through,
right?

1289
01:28:21,080 --> 01:28:24,520
Just part of being human.
How was it you were able to look

1290
01:28:24,520 --> 01:28:27,840
at those different lists, so to
speak, those different that,

1291
01:28:27,960 --> 01:28:32,600
that, that, that scholarly work
done by other biblical scholars

1292
01:28:32,600 --> 01:28:35,480
and, and say, OK, that one's
good, that one's bad.

1293
01:28:35,480 --> 01:28:38,000
What?
What did you use as criteria for

1294
01:28:38,000 --> 01:28:42,840
nailing those down?
So my criteria was in English,

1295
01:28:43,680 --> 01:28:50,120
if it was a five word spread, if
I had five words connected, then

1296
01:28:50,120 --> 01:28:55,400
I would call that a quote.
If I had less than 5, then I

1297
01:28:55,400 --> 01:28:59,120
would call that an illusion
because it was alluding to

1298
01:28:59,120 --> 01:29:01,840
something.
But it it might do it with two

1299
01:29:01,840 --> 01:29:04,640
words, but you could really tell
what it was.

1300
01:29:04,960 --> 01:29:12,000
And then I also had an echo, and
they echo sometimes.

1301
01:29:12,120 --> 01:29:17,360
There are times when I would
have to, to give you say 3

1302
01:29:17,360 --> 01:29:23,880
chapters of Ezekiel in order to,
to get what the New Testament

1303
01:29:23,880 --> 01:29:27,200
author had distilled into one
sentence.

1304
01:29:27,840 --> 01:29:31,800
But in order for you to see that
that was distilled, you would

1305
01:29:31,800 --> 01:29:34,960
have to read those 3 or 4
chapters.

1306
01:29:35,520 --> 01:29:39,160
And then when you read them in
light of that verse, you were

1307
01:29:39,160 --> 01:29:41,200
able to see and you're like,
wow.

1308
01:29:41,840 --> 01:29:44,760
Well, and now that wouldn't,
that would make sense, right?

1309
01:29:44,760 --> 01:29:48,520
Because the people in the New
Testament, their scripture is

1310
01:29:48,520 --> 01:29:51,240
the Old Testament, right?
They have no idea they're living

1311
01:29:51,240 --> 01:29:54,760
in new Scripture, so to speak,
until well after the time of

1312
01:29:54,840 --> 01:29:58,080
Jesus, right?
And so you would expect them to

1313
01:29:58,080 --> 01:30:01,000
be able to take complex ideas
that are found in the Old

1314
01:30:01,000 --> 01:30:05,000
Testament and if they understand
them, distill them down to where

1315
01:30:05,000 --> 01:30:08,200
other people who were familiar
with that Old Testament text

1316
01:30:08,480 --> 01:30:12,280
would understand the illusion
that he is making in regards to

1317
01:30:12,280 --> 01:30:14,440
the previous text.
Is that kind of what you're

1318
01:30:14,440 --> 01:30:15,960
getting at?
Yes.

1319
01:30:16,000 --> 01:30:18,720
And so, so I, I had three
different levels.

1320
01:30:19,040 --> 01:30:22,840
And when I was looking at it,
then I would look at it.

1321
01:30:22,840 --> 01:30:27,840
And if that scholar said, well,
he was referring to this, then

1322
01:30:27,880 --> 01:30:33,080
I'm that I might have to spend a
week on it because I'm not

1323
01:30:33,080 --> 01:30:36,320
seeing it.
And usually if I'm not seeing

1324
01:30:36,320 --> 01:30:38,400
it, it means I just haven't
studied enough.

1325
01:30:38,840 --> 01:30:41,960
And so I will study more and
more and then I'm getting deeper

1326
01:30:41,960 --> 01:30:43,800
into them.
And then all of a sudden there

1327
01:30:43,800 --> 01:30:47,360
will be that moment of
inspiration where I'll go, Oh

1328
01:30:47,360 --> 01:30:49,280
my, there it is.
It's just so plain.

1329
01:30:49,440 --> 01:30:54,560
So there are things in my 4
volume work of the whole New

1330
01:30:54,560 --> 01:31:02,080
Testament that I called Echoes
that now sometimes I'll go back

1331
01:31:02,080 --> 01:31:04,920
and look at them and I'll go,
that's not an echo, that's

1332
01:31:04,920 --> 01:31:07,680
definitely an illusion.
This is an absolute.

1333
01:31:08,200 --> 01:31:12,760
But it's because I've gained
more knowledge and more wisdom

1334
01:31:12,760 --> 01:31:15,040
and understanding as I'm going
through.

1335
01:31:15,360 --> 01:31:19,480
So the format that I did is, is
I've literally got it from

1336
01:31:19,600 --> 01:31:24,320
starting in Matthew.
And then I'll lay out the and

1337
01:31:24,320 --> 01:31:26,440
I'm using two different
translations.

1338
01:31:26,640 --> 01:31:34,280
So if we're in Matthew chapter 5
verse 48, then then, and I'm

1339
01:31:34,280 --> 01:31:37,680
showing you that one, then I'm
going to give you Matthew,

1340
01:31:38,200 --> 01:31:43,520
Matthew 548 and give you 2
translations of it and then show

1341
01:31:43,520 --> 01:31:47,400
you where in the Old Testament
and give you those verses.

1342
01:31:47,400 --> 01:31:51,280
So it's not a list, it's
actually a total reference.

1343
01:31:51,440 --> 01:31:54,120
So if you're preparing the
lesson or you're, you're

1344
01:31:54,120 --> 01:31:57,680
teaching your family wherever
you're at and you're going

1345
01:31:57,680 --> 01:32:01,200
through and there's a part of
the New Testament that you're

1346
01:32:01,200 --> 01:32:06,680
studying, then you'll be able to
just go to that those verses and

1347
01:32:06,680 --> 01:32:12,240
go, oh, well, there it is.
And, and have the verses where

1348
01:32:12,240 --> 01:32:14,920
you can read the New Testament
verse and then the Old Testament

1349
01:32:14,920 --> 01:32:18,760
verse.
And so it's, it's a reference

1350
01:32:19,960 --> 01:32:25,520
and I think that now I'm
becoming more familiar with the

1351
01:32:25,520 --> 01:32:30,080
text.
So a few months ago I was, I

1352
01:32:30,080 --> 01:32:35,480
went to a church service and
the, the pastor that was

1353
01:32:35,760 --> 01:32:40,720
preaching said he's, he was
quoting from the book of James.

1354
01:32:41,320 --> 01:32:45,120
And in the book of James, he
said it, James talked about

1355
01:32:45,120 --> 01:32:50,880
being a double minded person.
And immediately I was just like,

1356
01:32:50,880 --> 01:32:54,200
Oh my gosh, that's second in
Kings chapter 18.

1357
01:32:54,720 --> 01:32:57,560
How long will you halt between
two opinions?

1358
01:32:58,680 --> 01:33:02,120
And so, so sometimes that's why
I get scared sometimes when I'm

1359
01:33:02,120 --> 01:33:07,240
going to church, because now my,
my ears are tuned where I can

1360
01:33:07,240 --> 01:33:10,760
hear things and, and sometimes
I'll connect them and

1361
01:33:10,760 --> 01:33:13,040
immediately I'll write it down
and then go home.

1362
01:33:13,240 --> 01:33:15,640
And when I find that I've
already got it in there, then

1363
01:33:15,640 --> 01:33:18,160
I'm like, Oh, I'm glad that I
got that.

1364
01:33:19,000 --> 01:33:23,480
But there have been times when
when I had missed a verse.

1365
01:33:23,960 --> 01:33:30,320
And my, my assumption is, is
that there are going to be

1366
01:33:30,320 --> 01:33:35,400
scholars and students of the
Scriptures that long after I'm

1367
01:33:35,400 --> 01:33:40,520
gone, that we'll be going, yeah,
he was pretty good, but he

1368
01:33:40,520 --> 01:33:43,880
missed all of these.
And I hope that happens because

1369
01:33:43,880 --> 01:33:49,240
then because then I know that
the, the, the connection between

1370
01:33:49,440 --> 01:33:53,920
what we call the, the new and
the Old Testament, it's coming

1371
01:33:53,920 --> 01:33:56,440
together.
And, and in the words of

1372
01:33:56,440 --> 01:33:59,840
Ezekiel, so I'm a, I'm a use
Ezekiel, I would say.

1373
01:34:00,040 --> 01:34:02,800
And so they can be one in my
hand.

1374
01:34:03,040 --> 01:34:06,480
They could cut the, the two, the
two stick can come back

1375
01:34:06,480 --> 01:34:08,920
together.
The broken stick can come back

1376
01:34:08,920 --> 01:34:11,040
together and be one in the hand
of God.

1377
01:34:11,360 --> 01:34:16,320
And so that is in a salt, small
and subtle way, I believe that

1378
01:34:16,320 --> 01:34:21,840
that is my mission.
And my magnum opus is to to give

1379
01:34:22,040 --> 01:34:27,120
to the students of the Bible
something that's going to, to

1380
01:34:27,240 --> 01:34:31,120
allow them to connect the old
from the new.

1381
01:34:31,960 --> 01:34:35,960
Because the what I learned here,
here's another thing that I

1382
01:34:35,960 --> 01:34:39,720
learned is they assume the the
authors of the New Testament

1383
01:34:39,720 --> 01:34:44,120
assume and presume that if
you're reading that text, the

1384
01:34:44,120 --> 01:34:48,560
text of the New Testament that
you have the Old Testament.

1385
01:34:48,560 --> 01:34:53,480
Watch this memorized.
I didn't say you've read it five

1386
01:34:53,480 --> 01:34:55,960
times that you haven't
memorized.

1387
01:34:56,360 --> 01:35:01,520
So literally when Jesus is on
the cross, then he can he quote,

1388
01:35:01,520 --> 01:35:09,480
he can quote from from Psalms 82
is where I'm going to say I'm

1389
01:35:09,480 --> 01:35:13,400
telling you the wrong one.
I'm a he's quoting from song 22.

1390
01:35:14,360 --> 01:35:18,360
Sometimes my brain doesn't work
so, so well on the spot, but

1391
01:35:18,360 --> 01:35:23,200
he's quoting and all he does is
he gives the first line of it.

1392
01:35:23,760 --> 01:35:27,360
And then everybody that heard
him utter what he had or

1393
01:35:27,360 --> 01:35:31,200
uttered, in their mind, they
would have completed that song

1394
01:35:31,480 --> 01:35:34,640
and they would have seen that it
was talking about everything

1395
01:35:34,640 --> 01:35:36,960
that he was going through right
at that moment.

1396
01:35:37,600 --> 01:35:40,000
Gotcha.
So here.

1397
01:35:41,040 --> 01:35:44,360
And that makes sense.
Now let me push back here gently

1398
01:35:44,360 --> 01:35:45,960
on a few things.
OK, right.

1399
01:35:45,960 --> 01:35:48,960
Because I, I do want to get your
response to these and I want to

1400
01:35:48,960 --> 01:35:51,200
make sure also that I'm not
putting words in your mouth

1401
01:35:51,200 --> 01:35:54,880
here.
So are you really of the opinion

1402
01:35:54,880 --> 01:35:57,280
that no one should read the New
Testament until they have the

1403
01:35:57,280 --> 01:36:01,760
Old Testament memorized?
No, no, no, no, no, no, no.

1404
01:36:01,760 --> 01:36:04,600
But.
But the authors of the of the

1405
01:36:04,600 --> 01:36:08,760
New Testament assumed and
presumed that if you had their

1406
01:36:08,760 --> 01:36:11,520
texts, their writings, that you
already did.

1407
01:36:11,880 --> 01:36:14,480
Well, yeah, because that would
be the logical assumption

1408
01:36:14,480 --> 01:36:17,360
because they're not planning on
taking an awful with the

1409
01:36:17,360 --> 01:36:19,560
Gentiles until Paul comes
around, right.

1410
01:36:20,000 --> 01:36:23,480
So the idea was in the thought
process was well they should

1411
01:36:23,480 --> 01:36:25,040
already have this memorized,
right?

1412
01:36:25,520 --> 01:36:29,160
This should be theirs.
So I I understand the assumed

1413
01:36:29,160 --> 01:36:31,360
familiarity from.
So.

1414
01:36:31,400 --> 01:36:35,880
So that is the presumption that
that I think we don't know.

1415
01:36:35,920 --> 01:36:39,600
And maybe that's one of the
reason why God gave me the call,

1416
01:36:40,080 --> 01:36:42,800
because we don't have that
familiarity.

1417
01:36:42,960 --> 01:36:47,640
Just in general, even within the
Restoration, when we're taught

1418
01:36:47,640 --> 01:36:50,600
from the time that we're in
Primary, we're taught as little

1419
01:36:50,600 --> 01:36:54,680
kids that we're supposed to read
the scriptures and understand

1420
01:36:54,680 --> 01:36:59,680
them, but yet do we understand
them?

1421
01:36:59,880 --> 01:37:04,360
And so my work is, is connecting
those dots so that when the

1422
01:37:04,360 --> 01:37:08,760
student is coming forward or
preachers preparing a sermon in

1423
01:37:08,760 --> 01:37:12,280
whatever church that they're in,
that they're going to be able to

1424
01:37:12,280 --> 01:37:16,680
connect the dots and help God's
people be able to see things

1425
01:37:16,680 --> 01:37:19,400
that they might not be able to
see otherwise.

1426
01:37:19,640 --> 01:37:24,320
Gotcha.
Excuse me one the other place

1427
01:37:24,400 --> 01:37:26,800
that I wanted, and I want to
make sure I'm understanding you

1428
01:37:26,800 --> 01:37:30,360
correctly.
You said you judged the the

1429
01:37:30,360 --> 01:37:32,400
Apocrypha and I love the
Apocrypha.

1430
01:37:32,800 --> 01:37:35,360
In fact, if you're a fan of the
Apocrypha, I couldn't recommend

1431
01:37:35,360 --> 01:37:38,040
highly enough to get Kim
Peterson's book Mormonism and

1432
01:37:38,040 --> 01:37:40,360
the Apocrypha.
Great stuff in there.

1433
01:37:42,880 --> 01:37:46,480
You said you could judge a book
in the Apocrypha as being true

1434
01:37:46,480 --> 01:37:49,880
or not based on if it references
the Old Testament.

1435
01:37:49,880 --> 01:37:52,240
Is that really how you made that
that?

1436
01:37:52,480 --> 01:37:57,560
That no, no, no.
What God said to me is, do you

1437
01:37:57,560 --> 01:38:00,120
want to know?
Because we can read the Doctor

1438
01:38:00,120 --> 01:38:03,960
of Covenants where God told
Joseph, told the prophet, you

1439
01:38:03,960 --> 01:38:06,040
don't need to.
You don't have to translate this

1440
01:38:06,040 --> 01:38:09,600
part right?
It's got good stuff in it, but

1441
01:38:09,600 --> 01:38:12,640
but you don't need to
retranslate it or or however the

1442
01:38:12,640 --> 01:38:16,920
language is is in there and so
so.

1443
01:38:17,200 --> 01:38:19,800
Basically, God says read it with
discernment, right?

1444
01:38:19,800 --> 01:38:24,720
Yes, and so I'm reading it from
I'm I'm thinking I'm done.

1445
01:38:24,720 --> 01:38:28,920
And then Heavenly Father's
telling me you need to you.

1446
01:38:29,200 --> 01:38:34,480
I'm going to show you whether or
not it is my word or not.

1447
01:38:34,880 --> 01:38:39,680
And that's when all of a sudden,
over about a 2 1/2 year period,

1448
01:38:40,320 --> 01:38:46,400
then I'm studying all of those
books that were in the 1611 King

1449
01:38:46,400 --> 01:38:48,800
James Bible.
Which there were some books in

1450
01:38:48,800 --> 01:38:50,280
the Apocrypha that were in
there.

1451
01:38:50,720 --> 01:38:55,480
Yes, there's about 15 of those
books that that are taken out in

1452
01:38:55,480 --> 01:38:59,240
the late 1800s.
So if you get a Bible before

1453
01:38:59,240 --> 01:39:04,240
1884, it will have the books
that we call the Apocrypha in

1454
01:39:04,240 --> 01:39:07,600
it.
After 1885, they're not going to

1455
01:39:07,600 --> 01:39:11,640
be in it.
And one of the reasons is

1456
01:39:11,640 --> 01:39:16,320
because because the Bible
Society in England and the Bible

1457
01:39:16,320 --> 01:39:22,120
Society of America wanted to get
the Bible in every single house.

1458
01:39:22,120 --> 01:39:25,640
That was their goal, which was a
good and a righteous goal.

1459
01:39:25,960 --> 01:39:29,400
But but our, our good, our good
friend Martin Luther and the

1460
01:39:29,400 --> 01:39:34,600
boys, when they were doing the
that their translation, he

1461
01:39:34,600 --> 01:39:36,520
didn't like some of the things
that were written.

1462
01:39:36,520 --> 01:39:42,040
So, so he took a bunch of these
books out of their context and

1463
01:39:42,040 --> 01:39:45,000
put them in between the Old and
the New Testament.

1464
01:39:46,040 --> 01:39:55,560
And so then, then 200 years, 300
years later, now you and I are

1465
01:39:55,920 --> 01:39:59,160
trying to print Bibles and get
them into the hands of as many

1466
01:39:59,160 --> 01:40:01,640
people as I can.
And I come to you and I say,

1467
01:40:01,640 --> 01:40:06,880
Brother Dave, if we we can print
the New Testament in the Old

1468
01:40:06,880 --> 01:40:10,840
Testament, if we cut out the
Apocrypha, that will save us

1469
01:40:10,840 --> 01:40:17,160
thousands of dollars and we can
print, we can print 10,000 more

1470
01:40:17,160 --> 01:40:19,520
Bibles than we would have
otherwise.

1471
01:40:19,880 --> 01:40:22,360
From my heart, my heart still
may be pure.

1472
01:40:23,080 --> 01:40:24,800
And I'm still trying to do the
right thing.

1473
01:40:24,960 --> 01:40:28,800
But that's when it was taken
out, I believe, economic for

1474
01:40:28,800 --> 01:40:30,720
economic reasons.
Sure.

1475
01:40:30,720 --> 01:40:33,960
No look and and look.
I want to say this right.

1476
01:40:34,680 --> 01:40:39,120
This is why seems like I I come
back to this a lot on this

1477
01:40:39,120 --> 01:40:42,000
program.
What's the unintended

1478
01:40:42,000 --> 01:40:46,200
consequence right, yes.
And you look, we all know what

1479
01:40:46,200 --> 01:40:48,440
the what the road to hell is
paved with right?

1480
01:40:48,440 --> 01:40:49,760
Good.
Intentions, Good intentions.

1481
01:40:49,760 --> 01:40:50,640
Yes, Sir.
Right.

1482
01:40:50,680 --> 01:40:54,720
And so sometimes I, I always
feel like these are good places

1483
01:40:54,720 --> 01:40:56,600
to be.
Like I wouldn't go seeking to

1484
01:40:56,600 --> 01:41:00,040
change a whole bunch, right?
Because even though you don't

1485
01:41:00,040 --> 01:41:04,160
know what it's for, doesn't mean
it's not useful, right?

1486
01:41:04,200 --> 01:41:05,320
Right.
Or won't be.

1487
01:41:05,480 --> 01:41:08,400
Look, it's kind of like the
toothpick in a Swiss Army knife.

1488
01:41:08,720 --> 01:41:10,280
How often are you going to use
it?

1489
01:41:10,400 --> 01:41:13,800
Probably not very often, But
when you need it, you need it.

1490
01:41:14,360 --> 01:41:18,440
Right when I get that piece of
beat stuck in in my tooth or

1491
01:41:18,440 --> 01:41:22,000
something, then that's that
little toothpick is really

1492
01:41:22,120 --> 01:41:23,400
handy.
Yeah, yeah.

1493
01:41:23,400 --> 01:41:26,480
And so I, I've always said that
about the gospel, just because

1494
01:41:26,480 --> 01:41:29,480
it looks like it's something
superfluous to you or extra,

1495
01:41:29,920 --> 01:41:32,280
doesn't mean you should just get
rid of it, right?

1496
01:41:32,560 --> 01:41:34,600
Yes.
That they're in struggle with it

1497
01:41:34,600 --> 01:41:37,240
a little bit before you seek to
just get rid of what it is that

1498
01:41:37,240 --> 01:41:40,160
makes you feel icky or you're
not happy with or something like

1499
01:41:40,160 --> 01:41:42,920
that.
And I think that that's what I

1500
01:41:42,920 --> 01:41:47,960
was being taught was that I had
made some assumptions because

1501
01:41:47,960 --> 01:41:52,640
it's not in my Bible that I
really don't need it.

1502
01:41:52,920 --> 01:41:58,240
And yet when I was reading the
book of Maccabees and Ezra's and

1503
01:41:58,240 --> 01:42:02,440
I'm, I'm reading some of these
things, then I'm going, Oh my

1504
01:42:02,440 --> 01:42:07,040
gosh, now I can understand that
Jesus actually celebrated

1505
01:42:07,040 --> 01:42:09,840
Hanukkah, the festival of
lights.

1506
01:42:10,040 --> 01:42:12,480
And I now I know what that's all
about.

1507
01:42:12,960 --> 01:42:18,920
And, and so without the books of
the Apocrypha, I have a four

1508
01:42:18,920 --> 01:42:22,760
year silence in between the Old
and the New Testament.

1509
01:42:22,960 --> 01:42:28,680
So there's a four year, a 400
year gap from Malachi to Matthew

1510
01:42:29,480 --> 01:42:32,520
when you when you pull out the
the park.

1511
01:42:32,880 --> 01:42:40,680
And now I'm I'm losing so many
things and I can't study the New

1512
01:42:40,680 --> 01:42:44,120
Testament because I don't have
that.

1513
01:42:44,720 --> 01:42:49,080
That is part of the Apocrypha as
part of my Canon, and yet over

1514
01:42:49,080 --> 01:42:54,400
400 times those writers are
going to reference those books

1515
01:42:54,400 --> 01:42:57,600
in the Apocrypha.
So my conclusion, people can

1516
01:42:57,600 --> 01:43:01,560
come to whatever conclusion they
want to, but my conclusion was

1517
01:43:02,120 --> 01:43:06,920
that if they that the authors of
the New Testament believe that

1518
01:43:06,920 --> 01:43:11,120
the books of the Apocrypha were
yes, indeed scripture.

1519
01:43:11,400 --> 01:43:12,920
Yep.
All right.

1520
01:43:14,200 --> 01:43:17,360
Now I got just three more
questions I want to wrap up here

1521
01:43:17,360 --> 01:43:21,480
with.
First question is this, What was

1522
01:43:21,480 --> 01:43:23,320
the hardest part of writing this
book?

1523
01:43:26,920 --> 01:43:31,120
Thinking that I was done and
then God would write with that

1524
01:43:31,440 --> 01:43:32,920
there.
There's probably four or five

1525
01:43:32,920 --> 01:43:37,360
times when I thought I was done
and then then someone then you

1526
01:43:37,360 --> 01:43:40,200
would say I am.
I'm a use you as just in a

1527
01:43:40,200 --> 01:43:42,640
general sense.
Then then all of a sudden

1528
01:43:42,640 --> 01:43:45,280
brother Dave sends me this text
and asked me some silly

1529
01:43:45,280 --> 01:43:47,600
question, which isn't really
silly.

1530
01:43:47,600 --> 01:43:50,640
It's an awesome question.
And then all of a sudden that's

1531
01:43:50,640 --> 01:43:53,840
going to lead me down a rabbit
trail that's going to take me

1532
01:43:53,840 --> 01:43:59,320
another six months and add 25 or
30 verses that I couldn't see

1533
01:43:59,320 --> 01:44:02,480
the connection because you
hadn't asked me the question

1534
01:44:02,480 --> 01:44:06,040
yet.
And when I'm coming to the end,

1535
01:44:06,880 --> 01:44:10,680
then all of a sudden I had set a
date where my research was over.

1536
01:44:11,680 --> 01:44:15,360
I it was an arbitrary date.
It was March the 2nd of this

1537
01:44:15,360 --> 01:44:20,000
year, and that's Texas
Independence Day and so.

1538
01:44:20,760 --> 01:44:24,200
Of course I did, yes.
So, so, so that's why I picked

1539
01:44:24,200 --> 01:44:29,920
that day.
And then a month before then my

1540
01:44:29,920 --> 01:44:34,680
good friend Joshua Erickson, he
starts sending me these verses

1541
01:44:34,680 --> 01:44:38,920
from the Book of Enoch.
And I'm just like going all

1542
01:44:38,920 --> 01:44:43,880
right, no, I don't have that.
And the he keeps on sending me

1543
01:44:43,880 --> 01:44:47,840
verses and sending me verses.
So finally I'm like, OK, I think

1544
01:44:47,840 --> 01:44:53,120
I need to look at the book of
Enoch and and look at those

1545
01:44:53,120 --> 01:44:56,360
scriptures.
But in Enoch are in Matthew

1546
01:44:56,360 --> 01:45:04,320
chapter 22, Jesus, he says, he
says, you do air you don't

1547
01:45:04,320 --> 01:45:08,160
understand the scripture.
And then he makes reference to

1548
01:45:08,160 --> 01:45:13,040
the book of Enoch.
So just because it lost favor in

1549
01:45:13,040 --> 01:45:20,920
the in the 1st and 2nd century
with the church fathers, then if

1550
01:45:20,920 --> 01:45:23,880
I have to judge between the
church fathers in the early

1551
01:45:23,880 --> 01:45:28,200
centuries or Jesus, I'm going
with Jesus.

1552
01:45:28,400 --> 01:45:31,400
Yeah, every time.
And so I was like, wait a

1553
01:45:31,400 --> 01:45:34,800
second, Jesus said the book of
Enoch is Scripture.

1554
01:45:35,960 --> 01:45:39,360
Maybe I need to pay attention to
the Scripture.

1555
01:45:39,600 --> 01:45:44,280
And I'll just give one example
that brought me about 70 new

1556
01:45:44,280 --> 01:45:46,640
verses that were not in the work
before.

1557
01:45:47,320 --> 01:45:51,240
So just never ending.
Yes, but but I think that we're

1558
01:45:51,240 --> 01:45:55,840
really getting close to to
having connected those dots.

1559
01:45:56,440 --> 01:46:02,440
But in in John chapter 14, verse
2 and 3 and that that's the

1560
01:46:02,440 --> 01:46:06,080
verses where where Jesus says in
my father's house there are many

1561
01:46:06,080 --> 01:46:07,920
mansions.
If it were not so, I would have

1562
01:46:08,040 --> 01:46:11,200
told you, I now go to prepare a
place for you.

1563
01:46:11,640 --> 01:46:14,320
So that's it.
That's verse two and three.

1564
01:46:14,720 --> 01:46:22,320
And I find that Jesus is quoting
verse 3 is going to be from from

1565
01:46:22,920 --> 01:46:27,000
Enoch chapter 45.
And then because now I'm looking

1566
01:46:27,000 --> 01:46:30,720
at many mansions and that that
there are many principalities

1567
01:46:30,720 --> 01:46:34,240
and all these other things and
that that heaven isn't that

1568
01:46:34,240 --> 01:46:38,080
we're not just dealing with
heaven or hell that he says that

1569
01:46:38,240 --> 01:46:40,520
there's a lot of different
levels here.

1570
01:46:41,240 --> 01:46:48,320
And then I'm studying deeper and
in chapter 41 is is where Jesus

1571
01:46:48,320 --> 01:46:58,480
is getting verse 2 and in John
14 two, so, so John 14 two is

1572
01:46:58,640 --> 01:47:02,040
making reference to Enoch
chapter 41.

1573
01:47:02,600 --> 01:47:07,960
John 14 three is making
reference to Enoch chapter 45.

1574
01:47:08,760 --> 01:47:15,120
And I'm like, wow, it's so
whether people like it.

1575
01:47:15,240 --> 01:47:18,040
I have to take the Book of Enoch
seriously now.

1576
01:47:18,560 --> 01:47:21,400
Right.
And it, and it's also in the,

1577
01:47:21,480 --> 01:47:24,120
it's also in the Ethiopian
Bible.

1578
01:47:25,160 --> 01:47:30,480
And so that's the oldest text of
the Bible that is in existence.

1579
01:47:31,280 --> 01:47:35,440
And it has, it has some books
that that we don't, we don't

1580
01:47:35,440 --> 01:47:40,160
have the, the book of Jubilees
and the book of Jasher and, and

1581
01:47:40,160 --> 01:47:42,640
the book of Enoch.
We don't have them as part of

1582
01:47:42,640 --> 01:47:47,480
our Canon.
And yet Jesus had them as part

1583
01:47:47,480 --> 01:47:54,880
of his Canon of scripture and
quoted from those books and and

1584
01:47:54,880 --> 01:47:58,080
that connection.
What I was seeing is that there

1585
01:47:58,080 --> 01:48:05,160
are so many things that are not
canonized scripture and yet they

1586
01:48:05,160 --> 01:48:09,640
are as much scripture as
anything that you can imagine.

1587
01:48:11,400 --> 01:48:15,680
And what does God say in the
beginning of doctor covenants in

1588
01:48:15,680 --> 01:48:19,280
section one in the preamble
where he says whether it's by my

1589
01:48:19,280 --> 01:48:22,040
mouth of the mouth of my
services is the same.

1590
01:48:22,240 --> 01:48:27,120
So throughout history, when a
holy man has been moved upon by

1591
01:48:27,120 --> 01:48:31,160
the Holy Spirit, the in the
Hebrew, the Ruach Hakodesh, when

1592
01:48:31,160 --> 01:48:36,880
he's been moved on by that, then
what that individual writes in

1593
01:48:36,880 --> 01:48:42,120
their journal are are places
before the people of God is

1594
01:48:42,120 --> 01:48:44,920
scripture.
And I'm finding that there is

1595
01:48:44,920 --> 01:48:49,400
scripture all over the place in
the Dead Sea Scrolls, in the

1596
01:48:49,400 --> 01:48:54,480
Nagamadi texts and.
So, so definitely the hardest

1597
01:48:54,480 --> 01:48:57,720
part was continuing to have to
go back and dissect all that.

1598
01:48:58,840 --> 01:49:03,240
Yes, and and thinking I'm
through when, when God says,

1599
01:49:03,240 --> 01:49:06,600
well, you're not quite through.
I've got some more things, but

1600
01:49:06,600 --> 01:49:12,560
after I did the Enoch, then I'm
I've got in, in the Hebrew peace

1601
01:49:12,560 --> 01:49:15,640
Shalom.
So I'm now getting Shalom

1602
01:49:15,640 --> 01:49:18,240
Shalom.
Isaiah says that that is

1603
01:49:18,240 --> 01:49:22,760
translated as perfect peace, but
it's actually Shalom, Shalom.

1604
01:49:23,480 --> 01:49:26,400
And so I'm getting that in my
heart right now.

1605
01:49:26,480 --> 01:49:31,280
And and with that perfect piece
is coming, then I'm going we've

1606
01:49:31,280 --> 01:49:35,320
got and so I'm hoping that you
that you're not going to ask me

1607
01:49:35,320 --> 01:49:38,640
a question that's going to send
me down another two year rabbit

1608
01:49:38,640 --> 01:49:41,200
trail.
Actually, if you did then that,

1609
01:49:41,480 --> 01:49:46,720
that would be wonderful.
But all right, so with that,

1610
01:49:46,920 --> 01:49:51,160
what was what was one instant
where you really saw the Lord's

1611
01:49:51,160 --> 01:49:55,120
hands helping you in what you
were doing, like the one that

1612
01:49:55,120 --> 01:50:05,160
sticks out to you the most.
The OK, I would say I'm going to

1613
01:50:05,520 --> 01:50:09,400
and I and I said you, I've got a
couple of videos that I'm now

1614
01:50:09,400 --> 01:50:16,280
doing and, and I did one on Mary
and Elizabeth in there and the

1615
01:50:16,280 --> 01:50:20,320
connection of the ark of the
covenant to to Mary.

1616
01:50:20,440 --> 01:50:24,560
And that's kind of a fun one.
But the thing that was that was

1617
01:50:24,560 --> 01:50:31,440
most impactful for me was when
Yeshua, when Jesus said you're

1618
01:50:31,440 --> 01:50:34,800
an adulterous generation, you
Vipers.

1619
01:50:34,800 --> 01:50:36,520
And I mean, he's calling them
names.

1620
01:50:37,120 --> 01:50:39,760
And then then he says, you want
to sign.

1621
01:50:41,040 --> 01:50:44,320
And I'm talking, I'm reading
this in my texts.

1622
01:50:44,320 --> 01:50:49,240
So I'm going to deliver it as as
he if, as if he were from Texas.

1623
01:50:49,240 --> 01:50:52,320
He said, you want to sign?
OK, I'll give you a sign.

1624
01:50:53,120 --> 01:50:56,240
Here's the sign, the sign of
Jonah.

1625
01:50:57,240 --> 01:51:02,280
Just as Jonah was in the heart
of the earth for three days and

1626
01:51:02,280 --> 01:51:05,920
for three nights, so shall the
Son of Man be.

1627
01:51:06,960 --> 01:51:10,840
Oh, all right, now I need to.
Just as Jonah was in the belly

1628
01:51:10,840 --> 01:51:12,960
of the fish for three days, and
for.

1629
01:51:12,960 --> 01:51:13,920
Three.
I knew what you meant.

1630
01:51:13,960 --> 01:51:16,840
Yeah.
So shall the Son of Man be in

1631
01:51:16,840 --> 01:51:22,120
the heart of the earth for three
days and for three nights now.

1632
01:51:22,120 --> 01:51:27,400
I'm taught my whole life that
Jesus is on the cross on Friday

1633
01:51:28,000 --> 01:51:31,040
and he's getting up before the
sun comes up on Sunday.

1634
01:51:31,640 --> 01:51:34,720
Hallelujah.
And I, we're excited, but I'm a

1635
01:51:34,720 --> 01:51:36,680
simple country boy from East
Texas.

1636
01:51:36,680 --> 01:51:42,800
I can count to 3 and Jesus says
3 days and three nights.

1637
01:51:43,360 --> 01:51:47,800
And if he doesn't accomplish
that, he also says he's the way,

1638
01:51:47,800 --> 01:51:52,560
the truth and the life.
So I know he can't lie so.

1639
01:51:53,600 --> 01:51:56,440
So he's got to be in the grave
for three days or three nights.

1640
01:51:56,440 --> 01:52:00,240
But if he's getting into the
grave on Friday, then all I'm

1641
01:52:00,240 --> 01:52:04,640
going to be able to get out of
this proposition is 2 nights,

1642
01:52:05,080 --> 01:52:09,560
one day.
And if that is the case, then

1643
01:52:09,560 --> 01:52:12,960
Gee, I need to find me another
Mashiac.

1644
01:52:12,960 --> 01:52:17,640
I need to find me another
Messiah because he lied to me

1645
01:52:18,000 --> 01:52:20,320
and that would make him a false
prophet.

1646
01:52:20,320 --> 01:52:24,760
If if what I was taught my whole
life and I remember in

1647
01:52:24,760 --> 01:52:31,080
conference here, Elder Bruce R
Mcconkey get up and say well as

1648
01:52:31,080 --> 01:52:36,960
the Jews calculated time.
Then Jesus was in the grave on

1649
01:52:36,960 --> 01:52:40,680
Friday, Saturday and Sunday 3
days.

1650
01:52:41,560 --> 01:52:45,000
And I'm just like, Elder
Mcconkey, you're awesome in your

1651
01:52:45,000 --> 01:52:47,680
Scriptorian, but I can count to
3.

1652
01:52:47,920 --> 01:52:50,320
And Jesus said three days or
three nights.

1653
01:52:51,600 --> 01:52:55,960
And because I've now been
studying the Old Testament so

1654
01:52:55,960 --> 01:53:01,240
much, then I mentioned before
Leviticus chapter 23, that may

1655
01:53:01,240 --> 01:53:03,400
be the chapter that changed my
whole world.

1656
01:53:03,800 --> 01:53:05,760
Brother Dave, here's what I
found out.

1657
01:53:06,280 --> 01:53:11,840
All the sudden I found out that
you can have two Sabbaths in one

1658
01:53:11,840 --> 01:53:15,920
week.
And that changed my whole world

1659
01:53:16,560 --> 01:53:21,440
because then all the sudden
Jesus, I can put him on.

1660
01:53:22,360 --> 01:53:25,920
OK, I'm not trying to put him on
the cross, but he's on the cross

1661
01:53:26,280 --> 01:53:28,440
on Wednesday, what we call
Wednesday.

1662
01:53:28,640 --> 01:53:31,240
And I'm going to count it out.
Can I count it out for you?

1663
01:53:31,680 --> 01:53:33,040
Sure.
I want you to see it.

1664
01:53:33,280 --> 01:53:38,160
So in the, in the the way that
God calculates time is he starts

1665
01:53:38,160 --> 01:53:41,720
a new day at sunset.
Because if you look in your

1666
01:53:41,720 --> 01:53:44,640
Genesis, it says in the evening,
in the morning was the first

1667
01:53:44,640 --> 01:53:47,040
day.
So it starts in the evening and

1668
01:53:47,040 --> 01:53:48,520
then the morning is the first
day.

1669
01:53:48,840 --> 01:53:52,680
So, so watch this.
He's on what we call Wednesday

1670
01:53:54,080 --> 01:53:58,080
and, and they have to get in
preparation for the Sabbath.

1671
01:53:58,240 --> 01:53:59,840
They have to get him off the
cross.

1672
01:54:00,120 --> 01:54:04,080
And the Sabbath that we're going
to talk about is the the Sabbath

1673
01:54:04,080 --> 01:54:08,160
of unleavened Bread, which is
just after the Passover.

1674
01:54:08,480 --> 01:54:13,560
So, so now we've got him going
into the grave on Thursday night

1675
01:54:15,000 --> 01:54:20,640
and Thursday day, and then
Friday night, Friday day.

1676
01:54:20,760 --> 01:54:24,000
And now the women can actually
go to the market and buy the

1677
01:54:24,000 --> 01:54:27,040
herbs that they're going to
anoint him with.

1678
01:54:27,800 --> 01:54:34,360
And then we got Saturday night
and Saturday day and watch this,

1679
01:54:35,560 --> 01:54:42,840
that as the SUN is going down,
the sun is going down over the

1680
01:54:42,840 --> 01:54:49,560
mountains in Jerusalem.
Then the SON is getting up out

1681
01:54:49,560 --> 01:54:53,040
of the grave and people say,
well, we don't know exactly when

1682
01:54:53,040 --> 01:54:57,200
he was, when he was resurrected.
I know exactly when he was

1683
01:54:57,200 --> 01:55:00,760
resurrected because he told me 3
days and three nights.

1684
01:55:00,920 --> 01:55:04,840
And so at the end of the Sabbath
on that Sunday, then he would

1685
01:55:04,840 --> 01:55:10,040
have been resurrected just like
he said after three days and

1686
01:55:10,040 --> 01:55:13,480
three nights.
And Paul is going to tell me

1687
01:55:13,680 --> 01:55:17,400
that he's going to present
himself as the first fruits of

1688
01:55:17,400 --> 01:55:19,920
all who were dead.
And guess what?

1689
01:55:19,920 --> 01:55:24,800
The day after the weekly Sabbath
during Unleavened bread is it's

1690
01:55:24,800 --> 01:55:29,440
the, it's the waving of the
first fruits, OK.

1691
01:55:29,800 --> 01:55:35,280
And so Jesus, he fulfills
everything right on time, just

1692
01:55:35,280 --> 01:55:37,200
like he said he was going to do
it.

1693
01:55:37,600 --> 01:55:40,680
And so when people say, well,
you can't know when he's coming

1694
01:55:40,680 --> 01:55:43,640
back, well, I can't know, but I
can know the time and the

1695
01:55:43,640 --> 01:55:49,200
season, right?
It's and so for me, as I was

1696
01:55:49,200 --> 01:55:52,960
studying, it became so
meaningful when I was able to

1697
01:55:53,000 --> 01:55:57,520
totally connect the dots from
the old to the New Testament and

1698
01:55:57,520 --> 01:56:03,040
make that document into one
document in the hands of God's

1699
01:56:03,040 --> 01:56:07,480
people.
And, and now because I can show

1700
01:56:07,480 --> 01:56:12,400
you that Jesus was in the grave
for three nights and three days,

1701
01:56:13,000 --> 01:56:18,240
then I get to keep my Savior.
And for me, that is very

1702
01:56:18,240 --> 01:56:22,320
important because I had to hang
that on the wall, on a shelf, as

1703
01:56:22,320 --> 01:56:28,160
they say, for years and years
until I read a chapter in the

1704
01:56:28,160 --> 01:56:32,520
Old Testament and it answered
all, It answered so many

1705
01:56:32,520 --> 01:56:39,880
questions.
So my, my word to everybody is

1706
01:56:39,880 --> 01:56:43,360
as you read the scriptures, then
God is able to give you more

1707
01:56:43,360 --> 01:56:47,160
information as you're studying,
as you're having questions, then

1708
01:56:47,160 --> 01:56:52,520
read the scriptures because that
is the word that in the word is

1709
01:56:52,520 --> 01:56:55,760
going to be the place that
you're going to find the answers

1710
01:56:55,760 --> 01:56:59,360
to all your questions.
And I'm simple enough to believe

1711
01:56:59,560 --> 01:57:03,120
that the Holy Scriptures, all of
the scriptures from the

1712
01:57:03,120 --> 01:57:08,240
beginning of time through the
restoration, will lead you back

1713
01:57:08,240 --> 01:57:10,640
to the place that you want to.
Go.

1714
01:57:10,640 --> 01:57:12,960
All right, So last question
here.

1715
01:57:13,560 --> 01:57:15,280
What do you hope people get out
of the book?

1716
01:57:15,400 --> 01:57:18,600
What as you've written this
book, what's your goal for the

1717
01:57:18,600 --> 01:57:19,880
book?
What do you hope it does for

1718
01:57:19,880 --> 01:57:24,560
people?
I hope that is, is connecting

1719
01:57:24,720 --> 01:57:32,400
the scriptures together and, and
being a reference for, for the,

1720
01:57:32,400 --> 01:57:35,920
the person sitting in the Pew,
for all those people that are

1721
01:57:35,920 --> 01:57:40,160
preparing Sunday school lessons,
that are, are preparing gospel

1722
01:57:40,160 --> 01:57:45,520
doctrine lessons for prophets,
apostles, evangelists, for

1723
01:57:45,760 --> 01:57:49,800
everybody that is teaching the
people of God that they will now

1724
01:57:49,800 --> 01:57:55,320
have a resource that they can
tap into and, and have easy

1725
01:57:55,320 --> 01:58:00,280
access to connecting the dots
between the old and the new.

1726
01:58:00,760 --> 01:58:06,840
And, and as we understand the
old covenant, then we're able to

1727
01:58:06,840 --> 01:58:10,080
understand the renewed covenant
better.

1728
01:58:10,760 --> 01:58:15,960
And when you're, if you've got
the Book of Mormon or the doctor

1729
01:58:15,960 --> 01:58:18,880
of the covenants as part of
your, of your Canon of

1730
01:58:18,880 --> 01:58:22,240
scripture, I'm going to suggest
you need to understand the Old

1731
01:58:22,240 --> 01:58:25,680
Testament because you can't read
or understand your Book of

1732
01:58:25,680 --> 01:58:30,000
Mormon properly until you really
understand the Old Testament.

1733
01:58:30,240 --> 01:58:33,680
And so it's, God gave us all of
these scriptures for our

1734
01:58:33,680 --> 01:58:38,000
purpose.
And my, my goal and I believe my

1735
01:58:38,480 --> 01:58:44,760
magnum opus that I have created
is that I'm going to give an

1736
01:58:44,760 --> 01:58:50,040
access where even the casual
student of the scripture will be

1737
01:58:50,040 --> 01:58:52,760
able to connect the dots.
That's awesome.

1738
01:58:54,280 --> 01:58:57,720
Well man, where you said the
books not quite out yet.

1739
01:58:57,960 --> 01:58:59,840
Is there a way that people could
pre-order?

1740
01:59:01,040 --> 01:59:04,800
You know what, if I were, if I
were a good marketing person,

1741
01:59:05,080 --> 01:59:11,360
then then there would be, I am
going to, I've got it at the

1742
01:59:11,400 --> 01:59:14,760
editors and, and one of the
editors, they're, they're

1743
01:59:14,760 --> 01:59:18,320
reformatting and putting it in a
better format.

1744
01:59:18,880 --> 01:59:23,320
I had printed out about 50
copies of it and, and it was a

1745
01:59:23,320 --> 01:59:29,360
three volume and as soon as and
I sold those really quick and

1746
01:59:29,360 --> 01:59:34,360
then through the year, then I
had to add another addendum to

1747
01:59:34,360 --> 01:59:36,720
it.
And then when I added the

1748
01:59:36,720 --> 01:59:41,040
addendum, then over the last two
years, I've added more.

1749
01:59:41,040 --> 01:59:46,120
And so, so now it's actually
going to be a four volume set of

1750
01:59:46,120 --> 01:59:49,560
scripture starting at Matthew
and going all the way to the

1751
01:59:49,560 --> 01:59:53,440
Book of Revelation.
The volume 4 is actually just

1752
01:59:53,440 --> 01:59:55,360
the Book of Revelation.
Gotcha.

1753
01:59:55,760 --> 02:00:01,920
And, and it, it literally
connects so many, so many places

1754
02:00:02,200 --> 02:00:06,600
where you're able to see the,
the, these people that are

1755
02:00:06,600 --> 02:00:11,240
writing that Matthew, Mark, Luke
and John that they.

1756
02:00:12,080 --> 02:00:15,360
That they were quoting the
prophets of the Old Testament.

1757
02:00:15,360 --> 02:00:19,480
Jesus loved to quote the Psalms.
I mean, he's quoting the Psalms

1758
02:00:19,480 --> 02:00:23,520
all the time.
And now you'll be able to see

1759
02:00:23,520 --> 02:00:27,640
when Jesus quotes the Psalm or
as you alluded to earlier,

1760
02:00:27,800 --> 02:00:30,960
you'll be able to see when he's
dealing with the devil, which

1761
02:00:30,960 --> 02:00:34,720
verses that he's actually
throwing back at the devil.

1762
02:00:35,360 --> 02:00:38,560
Because because that is one of
the, the things that was so

1763
02:00:38,560 --> 02:00:45,800
powerful to me is if the devil
is attacking you, then if I'm

1764
02:00:45,800 --> 02:00:50,000
following what Jesus did, then
what I need to do is I need to

1765
02:00:50,000 --> 02:00:53,760
know the scriptures well enough
so that when the devil attacks

1766
02:00:53,760 --> 02:00:57,080
me that I can quote the
scripture right back to him and

1767
02:00:57,080 --> 02:01:00,640
put it back on him.
And that's, that's what Jesus

1768
02:01:00,640 --> 02:01:03,920
did.
And so hopefully my work will,

1769
02:01:03,920 --> 02:01:06,960
will help people.
And I know that you gave me an

1770
02:01:06,960 --> 02:01:10,040
extra month and I told you that
I was going to have it ready

1771
02:01:10,040 --> 02:01:14,920
and, and I didn't quite get it
there, but we will have it ready

1772
02:01:16,040 --> 02:01:20,440
soon.
And now I'm waiting on the the

1773
02:01:20,440 --> 02:01:24,000
editor smart people that are
smarter than me to make it look

1774
02:01:24,120 --> 02:01:26,960
pretty.
If someone wanted to buy APDF

1775
02:01:26,960 --> 02:01:30,400
version from you, could they do
that almost.

1776
02:01:31,160 --> 02:01:37,720
Almost, OK, almost but but but
if they I'm probably I'm

1777
02:01:37,720 --> 02:01:40,560
probably the most terrible
marketing person in the whole

1778
02:01:40,560 --> 02:01:42,600
wide world.
It's all right because, because

1779
02:01:42,840 --> 02:01:44,640
I should have had these things
ready.

1780
02:01:44,880 --> 02:01:51,280
And yes, I will have it in PDF
and it's also going to be, we're

1781
02:01:51,280 --> 02:01:54,320
going to be putting it on Amazon
where it will be print on

1782
02:01:54,320 --> 02:01:57,800
demand.
And so I'm loving that because

1783
02:01:57,800 --> 02:02:02,360
now I'm not going to have to, to
have my whole garage full of, of

1784
02:02:02,360 --> 02:02:05,800
books and, and people will be
able to get it easy.

1785
02:02:05,840 --> 02:02:09,400
And I, I'm, they're going to be,
we're going to be putting it on

1786
02:02:09,400 --> 02:02:13,680
Kindle and, and on other PDF
versions.

1787
02:02:15,200 --> 02:02:19,680
And, and so my goal really is
hopefully I'll be able to cover

1788
02:02:19,680 --> 02:02:24,320
my cost, but my goal is really
to get this in the hands of the

1789
02:02:24,320 --> 02:02:26,080
people of God.
Gotcha.

1790
02:02:26,360 --> 02:02:27,440
Gotcha.
OK.

1791
02:02:27,720 --> 02:02:30,680
What's your SO?
Couple months probably tops.

1792
02:02:31,160 --> 02:02:35,640
Yes, that that is that is my
goal before the before the

1793
02:02:35,640 --> 02:02:40,640
summer ends before before we get
to the World Series, in the we

1794
02:02:40,640 --> 02:02:45,600
get to the the days of summer
are over, then hope, hopefully

1795
02:02:45,600 --> 02:02:50,200
I'll have it all ready to roll
and I'll keep you advised of

1796
02:02:50,200 --> 02:02:52,280
that.
Yeah, keep me advised of that

1797
02:02:52,280 --> 02:02:54,560
cause what I can do is I can
make an announcement so people

1798
02:02:54,560 --> 02:02:58,240
can go find the book.
So what's the name of your

1799
02:02:58,240 --> 02:03:04,520
YouTube?
Channel it is Tracy Roberts 138

1800
02:03:04,520 --> 02:03:07,400
but it's Tracy Roberts pastor of
prosperity.

1801
02:03:08,880 --> 02:03:12,680
That was a, a, a title that my
good friend, Reverend Jackson,

1802
02:03:12,680 --> 02:03:15,040
he was like, man, you're the
pastor of prosperity.

1803
02:03:15,200 --> 02:03:18,120
And he just said it one time.
And I was like, OK.

1804
02:03:18,320 --> 02:03:22,160
And so it's stuck.
And so if you're looking up the

1805
02:03:22,160 --> 02:03:26,040
pastor of prosperity, Tracy
Roberts, then it will, it'll

1806
02:03:26,040 --> 02:03:32,360
bring you to, to a few teachings
that that I've done throughout

1807
02:03:32,880 --> 02:03:39,960
the time.
And, and so it's, it's a, that

1808
02:03:39,960 --> 02:03:44,360
that's where you can find me
most also Tracy J Roberts on

1809
02:03:44,360 --> 02:03:48,000
Facebook.
If someone were sending me a

1810
02:03:48,000 --> 02:03:54,120
friend request.
And then then I usually ask, I

1811
02:03:54,120 --> 02:03:56,640
sent a message back to people
and I was like, how do I know

1812
02:03:56,640 --> 02:03:58,680
you?
And if they say, well, I was,

1813
02:03:58,720 --> 02:04:03,360
listen, I was watching Brother
Dave's Mormonism Mormon

1814
02:04:03,360 --> 02:04:06,560
renegade.
And, and so I'll say, OK, then

1815
02:04:06,560 --> 02:04:08,360
what?
I'm sure we're friends and then

1816
02:04:09,120 --> 02:04:09,840
so sounds.
Good.

1817
02:04:10,720 --> 02:04:12,280
Well, Tracy, that was awesome,
man.

1818
02:04:12,280 --> 02:04:14,400
I appreciate it.
Keep me informed on when that

1819
02:04:14,400 --> 02:04:16,240
book drops and we'll be in
touch.

1820
02:04:17,040 --> 02:04:20,320
All right, Hey, can I just, can
I just leave you with, I'm not

1821
02:04:20,320 --> 02:04:23,120
going to leave you with an
ironic blessing, but can I just

1822
02:04:23,120 --> 02:04:25,400
leave you with my sign off real
quick?

1823
02:04:25,400 --> 02:04:29,080
Sure, this has been with Tracy
Roberts.

1824
02:04:29,080 --> 02:04:32,360
God bless you as you bless
others and remember to live your

1825
02:04:32,360 --> 02:04:35,400
life in purpose and on purpose
always.

1826
02:04:35,600 --> 02:04:39,840
I love y'all and Brother Dave, I
love you too and thank you for

1827
02:04:39,840 --> 02:04:43,640
allowing me this opportunity to
speak to the people of God.

1828
02:04:44,120 --> 02:04:46,160
No sweat.
Stick around for 5 minutes.

1829
02:04:46,160 --> 02:04:48,800
All right, all right, all right.
Bye everybody.

Episode #186: Understanding The Relationship Between The Old & New Testaments W/Tracy Roberts

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