May 10, 2025

Episode #183:Following God With Nothing Held Back W/Elior & Haley Walker

Show Notes
Transcript

On this episode I get to sit down and have a conversation with a young couple who has found and embraced the Fullness Of The Restored Gospel. Elior & Haley Walker join me today as we talk about their story. Starting in childhood we find out about their upbringing in the LDS Church, how they met and fell in love, how Elior & Haley found out about the inconsistencies in the LDS Church vs Early Mormon History, how they navigated those times together, how they were able to come through this time stronger as a couple, and where the Lord has taken them on this journey. All along the way through this conversation we touch on some pretty deep principles all the while having some.

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The.
You're listening to the Mormon

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Renegade podcast.
Eleor and Haley, how you guys

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doing?
Great.

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How you doing Dave?
Good man.

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You know, these are some of my
favorite podcasts I do right

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when I get to talk to people who
who went on a journey kind of

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like I did and a lot of other
people did.

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Right.
Yeah.

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You kind of made your way
through the LDS Church and then

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bam, all of a sudden you're
fundamentalist.

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So I, I really enjoy talking
about this and and I really like

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this because you guys were like,
I'm getting, you guys are

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significantly younger than I am.
I'm getting to a point now where

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most people are, but it's, it's
always good to see a, a younger

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batch coming up.
So what you guys are what,

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probably late 20s, early 30s?
Yep, late 20s.

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OK, I.
Turned 40 in like 3 weeks so my

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knees are going to stop working
probably on the day.

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You wait till you hit about 4040
is when interesting things start

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happening, right?
Like like all of a sudden you

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wake up and you're like, wow,
that hurts.

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And what is that?
And I didn't know I had one.

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So it's it's a new exciting game
that you will get to play once

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you cross that 40 line.
So but I'm just glad you guys

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are here.
I really AM.

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Yeah, we're glad to be here.
So I, I want to start, start off

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kind of at the beginning of with
each of you and, and I'll stop,

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we're, we're going to stop
intermittently here and, and

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I'll switch from like Eleor to
Haley and back and forth.

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And just kind of so we can get
kind of a, a full picture of how

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you guys came to this as a
couple.

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Because sometimes in
fundamentalism, especially when

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people are coming to this
knowledge, it doesn't work out

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the way it does for you guys,
right?

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Often times somebody's like, I'm
not going down that road and

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somebody else is saying I can or
I should.

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And I tend to be a guy who's
like, no, you should bring your

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whole family, right?
Figure it out if at all

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possible.
So I feel like both your stories

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here have some importance that I
want to get told then to to the

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audience because I think it's
super important.

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So who kind of wants to start
off?

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What do you think, my dear?
Want me to go or do you want to?

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I mean, I guess my story kind of
started before yours did.

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In a way, yeah.
In a little bit.

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We'll, we'll, we'll go with
Haley.

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Let's let's start the beginning
now.

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Were you born Mormon?
Did you, were you raised in an

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LDS household?
Were you fundamentalist?

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What, what?
What's your background in

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Mormonism there, Haley?
Raised Raised in the mainstream

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church from birth.
OK, born in the covenant, the

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whole ball of wax.
And how active was your family

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growing up?
Oh, super active.

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We were active in everything.
Everything like.

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All the activities in the
callings and everything so.

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So like, OK, so just just 'cause
I'm always curious about

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background, like, was your dad a
Bishop?

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Was he, you know, a state
president, anything like that?

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Never, never any callings like
that.

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But you know, both my parents
had been in like elders quorum,

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Relief Society, my mom was in
Primary and stuff like that a

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lot.
OK, family home, evening every

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night, the whole ball of water.
Pretty much it was, it was a, it

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was a pretty frequent discussion
in our house, so.

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Gotcha.
Gotcha.

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So so you guys like lived and
breathed it.

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It wasn't just a Sunday passing
thing sort sort of.

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OK.
So as you're growing up in the

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church there, Haley, did did you
enjoy your time in the church?

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I mean, do you look back on it
with fondness?

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I mean, how do you feel about it
now or then?

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Let's let's focus on that.
So I was really, I was.

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I enjoyed everything about going
to church.

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I'd say the only thing I had
struggled with was sometimes not

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fitting in with the people in
the ward or something like that

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'cause we did move pretty
frequently growing up.

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But I was always very
enthusiastic.

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I was like the only person awake
at seminary in the morning.

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So.
So do you know what a curve

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wrecker is?
I don't know if that's a term

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that's still used.
I don't think so.

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OK.
So there used to be a way of

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grading papers when you were in
school or maybe even seminary,

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which was called grading on the
curve, right?

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And so they would take like the
highest score of a, of a test or

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something, and that would be the
A, right?

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And so we always called the
curve wrecker, the person who

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was always dialed in, right, the
guy who's always knocking out

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97% to 100% on those papers.
So I just imagine based on what

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you're telling me, Haley, you
were probably a curve wrecker

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inside seminary, weren't you?
Church.

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Yeah, Basically anything.
Church.

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That was me, girl.
OK, All right, so, so seminary,

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the whole ball of wax did Did
you go on a mission?

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I did not.
It was.

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It was my plan all growing up,
but right around the time that I

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started working on my papers was
when like all the pandemic stuff

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started.
And so that got put on hold

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because I didn't know how easy
it was going to be to get that

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stuff done during that time.
And then the Lord was like,

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actually I have other plans for
you and introduced me to Eleor

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and said we were supposed to
get.

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Married.
I ruined her dream of going on a

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mission.
Sometimes that's just what US

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dudes do.
We just gum up the works, right?

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I mean, different mission,
different life mission.

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Yeah, I'm, Yeah.
The Lord needed someone devoted

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to me because I'm such a Rex.
I was, I was, you know, so I

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have a good friend who's like,
man, why would you ever choose

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plural marriage?
I'm like, bro, I'm a disaster.

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It takes 2 just to keep me on
the rails, right?

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You don't get it.
I mean, I will leave stuff in

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the craziest spots.
Yeah.

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So, yeah, No, I I get it.
So Haley, the the whole time

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growing up, did you like work,
the young women's program, all

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that stuff?
Oh yeah, yeah, I had, yeah.

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What were you going to say?
No, go ahead.

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I was just going to say yes, I,
you know, I did like the

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personal progress and I was
active like I was in the was it

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like the presidencies?
Yeah, for like the classes and

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stuff thought.
Your honor would be here or

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whatever.
Right.

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Yeah, I did all that stuff.
I was, I was really active in

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everything so.
Gotcha.

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And so as you're growing up, do
you ever encounter like any old

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school doctrine or any any like
anti Mormon material that like

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shook you a little bit growing
up at all?

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I wouldn't say I ever really
came across much anti stuff

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growing up, however my dad would
sometimes bring up like deeper

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doctrine type stuff that he was
reading about.

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She was.
Raised with fundamentalist

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doctrine, she was.
Not really.

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Not like Adam, God per SE.
Sorry to, but no, no.

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No, no.
But you're right.

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You're right.
My I was.

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Her dad's hardcore.
I was old enough to remember

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when the whole, like, red pill
with everything, including the

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church was happening in my
family.

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Yeah.
And so and so like.

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When when her parents got really
invested.

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Yeah.
And so.

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Into like church and just being
really serious doctrinally,

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yeah.
OK.

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So were your parents not so
invested at some point?

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And is that what you mean in in
the church and in the gospel or?

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No, no, I just mean like.
I'd say we started out pretty

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mainstream basic like.
Milk.

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Toast.
Yeah.

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I mean, I guess you could say
like, we were still like, in it

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like my dad went on a mission,
my parents were murdered in the

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temple, all of that stuff.
But I'd say as I got older, that

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was when when my dad had started
to read some of the, what would

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you even call them, like.
Journal of Discourses.

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Yeah, like that kind of stuff.
Like, I, I will.

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There's like a term for that
literature.

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Yeah.
But my dad was reading that

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stuff growing up.
And so every once in a while,

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that would come up in our
conversations and we would talk

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about like, making sure that we
like, actually had our own

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testimonies and that it wasn't
just about like the social

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aspect of church, if you know
what I mean.

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You sure?
Sure.

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No.
And that's a real, you know,

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that's that's a real thing,
right?

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Especially, especially in in the
Utah bubble, Right.

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And, well, I I can't limit that
just to Utah's really.

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That's going all along the Snake
River corridor in Idaho.

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That's yeah.
You know the any place that has

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a high concentration, there is a
culture that goes along with it.

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And it's.
And the religion talks.

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About the Datran, it's about the
culture in there.

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I don't want, I don't want to
paint with a broad brush, but in

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the bubble, like you said, the
Snake River and and down South

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in in the bubble, it's it's more
cultural, it seems to me anyway.

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Sure, sure.
Yep.

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So, Haley, what kind of what
kind of what you said that every

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once in a while your dad would
bring up some old school

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doctrines.
What kind of doctrines is he

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bringing up as a as you were a
kid?

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I mean, I know polygamy was
brought up a little bit because

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I think I do remember my dad
talking about like how it was a

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doctrine.
The vet, the Lord might have

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people start living again.
I'm trying to remember.

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I don't have any.
I can't really think of many

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that stuck out a whole lot.
I just know that they were

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brought up and so I feel like my
journey towards fundamentalism

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was a lot, a lot more drawn out.
And so it's kind of hard.

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It's it's kind of hard to
pinpoint like when it happened.

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Gotcha, gotcha.
No, that makes sense.

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So when he'd bring up stuff like
that, it never freaked you out

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or anything.
You know, like you didn't have

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an ick factor going on when you
brought up plural marriage or

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anything like that.
I, I will say that was a little

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bit awkward growing up, but it's
hard when you are, it's hard

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when you're growing up being
taught the way that the

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mainstream church teaches it now
where it's very much like, it's

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just one man, one woman, Like we
don't do anything different.

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You know what I mean?
Right.

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And so that was definitely
something and is, is something

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that I've had to like learn to
be more comfortable with as I've

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realized that it was just the
way that it was taught.

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OK.
All right.

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And, and yeah, we'll get to to
dive into more of that as as we

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move along here in in the
narrative.

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So, so you go make it through
high school.

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Do you go to college before you
meet Eleor?

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One SEC one of our kids is
awake.

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I'm going to run down SO.
No, you're good.

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You're.
Good.

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She'll be here.
She'll be here to to answer that

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and whatnot.
You're good.

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00:12:49,960 --> 00:12:52,520
So did you?
Did you end up going to college,

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00:12:52,720 --> 00:12:56,400
you know, before you met Eleor?
Or did you just graduate high

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school and get married?
So I I didn't go to college, but

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I did have a little bit of time
in between high school and

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getting married.
Basically, once I was done with

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school, I pretty much got a job
right away and started saving up

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for my mission.
Saved up for a couple of years

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and had probably like about what
I was going to need for my

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00:13:24,400 --> 00:13:30,880
mission saved up.
But then, you know, with all the

222
00:13:31,080 --> 00:13:34,520
COVID stuff and whatever, I was
like, OK, work got really busy

223
00:13:34,520 --> 00:13:42,640
because of everything.
And, and, and yeah, that was

224
00:13:42,880 --> 00:13:46,040
then we ended up meeting and the
Lord was just kind of like maybe

225
00:13:46,040 --> 00:13:51,520
put, maybe put the mission on
hold for a little bit and see

226
00:13:51,520 --> 00:13:56,440
if, you know, see if that's.
See if he's the if he's the dude

227
00:13:58,320 --> 00:14:03,000
all right, so, so, so up to the
point you're meeting Ellie or

228
00:14:03,000 --> 00:14:05,640
you're just thinking the typical
LDS track, right?

229
00:14:05,640 --> 00:14:08,560
You're, you're, you've worked
the program, so to speak.

230
00:14:08,840 --> 00:14:12,480
Sounds like your parents were
were on the conservative side of

231
00:14:12,480 --> 00:14:14,560
the spectrum when it came to
Mormonism, right?

232
00:14:14,560 --> 00:14:19,400
Old school and, and so, so you
get to the point where you're,

233
00:14:19,400 --> 00:14:22,080
you're getting ready to work, go
on your mission and stuff.

234
00:14:22,480 --> 00:14:25,480
And then you just get to feel
like you should just wait and

235
00:14:25,480 --> 00:14:28,520
see if if Elior is the man.
Yeah.

236
00:14:29,040 --> 00:14:32,840
And I knew, I knew it was the
same thing that had happened

237
00:14:33,400 --> 00:14:37,280
with my mom, where she was going
to go on a mission and then and

238
00:14:37,280 --> 00:14:39,840
then ended up getting married to
my dad.

239
00:14:39,840 --> 00:14:43,000
And so I knew it was a
possibility, but I really just

240
00:14:43,000 --> 00:14:49,920
put it in the Lord's hands.
And he was very much, very much

241
00:14:49,920 --> 00:14:54,200
a part of, like, telling both of
us that we were supposed to be

242
00:14:54,200 --> 00:14:56,360
together, you know?
Your dad was.

243
00:14:57,240 --> 00:15:00,720
No, sorry the Lord.
The Lord was.

244
00:15:00,960 --> 00:15:02,640
OK, gotcha.
The Lord was.

245
00:15:03,120 --> 00:15:05,280
I was.
Going to say go go dad, that's

246
00:15:05,280 --> 00:15:10,040
awesome.
The Lord the Spirit was very

247
00:15:10,040 --> 00:15:12,280
strong in telling us we were
supposed to be together.

248
00:15:12,280 --> 00:15:13,360
So that was really.
Cool, gotcha.

249
00:15:13,560 --> 00:15:15,000
Gotcha.
And what what part of the

250
00:15:15,000 --> 00:15:22,080
country did you grow up in?
So what is it?

251
00:15:22,320 --> 00:15:22,960
The the West?
The.

252
00:15:23,400 --> 00:15:24,920
West Coast.
West Coast.

253
00:15:25,160 --> 00:15:27,240
California.
Gotcha, Gotcha.

254
00:15:27,280 --> 00:15:30,320
You can say I have a wife from
California, OK?

255
00:15:30,520 --> 00:15:32,680
Not a word.
Not a bad word on this podcast.

256
00:15:32,960 --> 00:15:35,040
What's that?
It's not a bad word on this

257
00:15:35,040 --> 00:15:36,640
podcast.
No.

258
00:15:38,520 --> 00:15:38,840
No, Huh.
Huh.

259
00:15:38,840 --> 00:15:43,760
You're yeah, West Coast for a
while and then then moved up

260
00:15:43,760 --> 00:15:46,680
like Midwest.
Yeah, Midwest and Indiana.

261
00:15:47,160 --> 00:15:49,560
Oh oh.
I I meant.

262
00:15:50,920 --> 00:15:56,120
Oregon or something like that.
Then moved to like Snake River

263
00:15:56,120 --> 00:15:57,200
area.
Gotcha.

264
00:15:57,200 --> 00:15:58,000
OK.
All right.

265
00:15:58,000 --> 00:16:00,120
Gotcha.
All right, let's pivot over to

266
00:16:00,120 --> 00:16:02,080
Eleor.
Were you born in the church or

267
00:16:02,080 --> 00:16:04,400
were what's your background here
with Mormon?

268
00:16:04,400 --> 00:16:09,800
Yeah.
Born in the Church to a my mom

269
00:16:09,800 --> 00:16:11,880
was really serious about the
gospel.

270
00:16:11,880 --> 00:16:13,440
My dad didn't really give a
crap.

271
00:16:13,840 --> 00:16:18,000
So we were like inactive half
the time, active half the time.

272
00:16:19,000 --> 00:16:23,680
Later on in my teen years we
were, we were pretty active, but

273
00:16:23,680 --> 00:16:28,520
in my early childhood the
activity was like just kind of

274
00:16:28,520 --> 00:16:30,160
on and off.
Gotcha.

275
00:16:30,160 --> 00:16:36,440
So, but I, I was born in the
church, I don't remember caring

276
00:16:36,440 --> 00:16:38,240
too much about it as a little
kid.

277
00:16:38,240 --> 00:16:41,400
It was just boring to me, to be
honest.

278
00:16:41,880 --> 00:16:44,960
But when I became a teenager,
that's when that's really when

279
00:16:44,960 --> 00:16:50,080
the deep questions of life start
to, you know, come into focus,

280
00:16:50,280 --> 00:16:52,760
at least if you're, if you're
somewhat thoughtful, I guess.

281
00:16:53,240 --> 00:16:56,440
And so that's when I really
turned toward discovering

282
00:16:56,440 --> 00:16:58,960
Mormonism, or at least looking
into it.

283
00:16:59,680 --> 00:17:04,359
Gotcha, gotcha.
And So what you said your mom

284
00:17:04,359 --> 00:17:06,680
was pretty serious about.
So would your mom just take you

285
00:17:06,720 --> 00:17:08,720
and your brothers and sisters to
church or?

286
00:17:10,920 --> 00:17:13,520
Eventually, yeah.
And then my mom and dad got

287
00:17:13,520 --> 00:17:16,200
divorced when I was 11.
And so then it was just

288
00:17:16,319 --> 00:17:18,680
definitely just her at that
point taking us to church.

289
00:17:18,680 --> 00:17:22,040
But yeah, it's my dad would go
when we were really little.

290
00:17:22,359 --> 00:17:24,760
And then as time went on, he
just went less and less, and it

291
00:17:24,760 --> 00:17:26,800
was my mom taking us.
Gotcha.

292
00:17:27,160 --> 00:17:30,160
SO I'm going to ask kind of a
personal question here.

293
00:17:30,160 --> 00:17:33,320
During that divorce, did you
find the gospel in church became

294
00:17:33,320 --> 00:17:38,600
more important to you?
Unfortunately, no.

295
00:17:39,280 --> 00:17:42,440
It was a really, really rough
time in my life that happened.

296
00:17:42,440 --> 00:17:49,160
And then a couple other things
happened and church for some

297
00:17:49,160 --> 00:17:54,200
reason, maybe I don't want to
blame it on like my, the example

298
00:17:54,200 --> 00:17:57,120
I had in the home of a father,
but for some reason, I just, I

299
00:17:57,120 --> 00:17:58,520
found church to be kind of a
drag.

300
00:17:58,800 --> 00:18:03,000
I didn't want to go when I was a
young kid, but but that did

301
00:18:03,000 --> 00:18:07,400
change when I became, when I
sort of started growing up and

302
00:18:07,400 --> 00:18:09,360
I'd be I, I came in my
adolescent years.

303
00:18:10,320 --> 00:18:11,800
What?
What do you think changed for

304
00:18:11,800 --> 00:18:14,120
you there?
Yeah, the like I said, it was

305
00:18:14,120 --> 00:18:20,080
just the deep questions.
What kind of questions?

306
00:18:21,240 --> 00:18:25,040
Oh, just like, is God real?
Is God real?

307
00:18:25,400 --> 00:18:29,400
The, the problem of evil?
You know, why does, why do bad

308
00:18:29,400 --> 00:18:37,880
things happen?
And I guess as a young teenager,

309
00:18:38,880 --> 00:18:42,040
I was kind of in it for the
social reasons, but I those

310
00:18:42,040 --> 00:18:43,960
questions were percolating in my
mind.

311
00:18:44,440 --> 00:18:48,160
Then when I turned 17 that year
sort of changed everything.

312
00:18:49,120 --> 00:18:51,680
I began questioning the
existence of God.

313
00:18:51,680 --> 00:18:55,200
Like, how is it possible that
there's some being out there in

314
00:18:55,200 --> 00:19:00,840
space?
Like like I, I sort of, I didn't

315
00:19:00,840 --> 00:19:02,920
realize that I was becoming an
empiricist in a way.

316
00:19:02,920 --> 00:19:06,520
Like how can there, how can
anything else exist other than

317
00:19:06,520 --> 00:19:09,400
what, what I can see?
Like is there really some being

318
00:19:09,400 --> 00:19:12,200
out there in the heavens?
So I, I started asking that

319
00:19:12,200 --> 00:19:15,160
question and I told God and I
was 17.

320
00:19:15,160 --> 00:19:18,680
Like I said, I told God, I don't
know if you're real, but I'm

321
00:19:18,680 --> 00:19:23,200
going to pray to you every day.
And hopefully I, I, I pray that

322
00:19:23,200 --> 00:19:25,640
you reveal yourself to me.
So I did that for a whole

323
00:19:25,640 --> 00:19:28,240
summer.
I prayed all the time, like all

324
00:19:28,240 --> 00:19:31,520
day, every day in my heart.
And by the end of that summer, I

325
00:19:31,520 --> 00:19:34,080
didn't have any crazy
manifestation, but I just, I

326
00:19:34,080 --> 00:19:36,240
absolutely knew God was real at
that point.

327
00:19:37,440 --> 00:19:39,200
So yeah.
And that and that, like I said,

328
00:19:39,200 --> 00:19:43,480
that was when I was 17.
I, I was like at, at that point

329
00:19:43,480 --> 00:19:47,760
I was like semi active because
when I turned 16 my mom stopped

330
00:19:47,760 --> 00:19:51,680
making me go.
So I was, but I, I knew God

331
00:19:51,680 --> 00:19:53,400
existed.
I had some issues to work

332
00:19:53,400 --> 00:19:54,920
through.
I wasn't totally active, but I

333
00:19:54,920 --> 00:19:57,880
knew God existed and I believed
Mormonism was like the real

334
00:19:57,880 --> 00:20:00,520
deal.
Gotcha, Gotcha.

335
00:20:00,720 --> 00:20:04,360
What was it in that process of
praying for that whole summer

336
00:20:04,360 --> 00:20:07,800
you talked about what did did
something happen that you know,

337
00:20:07,800 --> 00:20:10,960
were there a series of events
that you were like, whoa, this

338
00:20:10,960 --> 00:20:16,640
is this is for real?
No, it was just a growing

339
00:20:16,920 --> 00:20:21,400
awareness of his presence.
I didn't have any baptism of

340
00:20:21,400 --> 00:20:23,560
fire experience.
I didn't hear his voice.

341
00:20:23,560 --> 00:20:26,440
I didn't, I didn't even have a
burning in the bosom experience.

342
00:20:27,760 --> 00:20:31,840
But I just as I prayed to him, I
grew more aware that he was

343
00:20:31,840 --> 00:20:34,680
real.
I, I, I allowed my heart to be

344
00:20:34,680 --> 00:20:36,680
open to having a relationship
with him.

345
00:20:36,680 --> 00:20:41,560
And he, you know, I really, I
reciprocated the relationship he

346
00:20:41,560 --> 00:20:44,600
wanted to have with me already.
And then I found out, Oh yeah,

347
00:20:44,600 --> 00:20:46,960
that he, he exists.
Got you.

348
00:20:47,360 --> 00:20:48,000
Just.
A knowing.

349
00:20:48,000 --> 00:20:50,960
An innate knowing.
No, no crazy experience at that

350
00:20:50,960 --> 00:20:51,800
point.
Right.

351
00:20:51,920 --> 00:20:53,880
No, I get you.
I, I feel where you're going,

352
00:20:53,880 --> 00:20:57,360
where you're going with that.
So did you end up serving a

353
00:20:57,360 --> 00:21:02,360
mission?
No, I had my papers in and I was

354
00:21:02,360 --> 00:21:06,480
like, it was about, they
estimated I was 4 weeks away

355
00:21:06,480 --> 00:21:11,480
from hearing something, but for
various reasons, I took another

356
00:21:11,480 --> 00:21:13,960
direction in life.
I, I put my papers in when I was

357
00:21:13,960 --> 00:21:17,720
19 and that's another, I
actually got really active that

358
00:21:17,720 --> 00:21:20,760
year.
I went from, by the end of my,

359
00:21:21,600 --> 00:21:25,800
but by the time I was like
almost turning 19, I had been

360
00:21:25,800 --> 00:21:28,800
completely inactive.
I was kind of at rock bottom.

361
00:21:30,400 --> 00:21:32,000
Oh, I see.
And then I'm like, I got it.

362
00:21:32,000 --> 00:21:34,800
I got to change my life.
And so I started going back to

363
00:21:34,800 --> 00:21:37,760
church and I, I like got, I went
full on.

364
00:21:37,760 --> 00:21:44,840
I dove head first in to church
activity and so again at 19 I

365
00:21:44,840 --> 00:21:48,680
like I refound God again, had
one of the best years of my life

366
00:21:48,680 --> 00:21:52,600
being active in my singles ward
and decided to put my mission

367
00:21:52,600 --> 00:21:55,000
papers in and then ended up not
going that route.

368
00:21:56,040 --> 00:21:59,520
Gotcha, gotcha.
Was it because you met Haley

369
00:21:59,520 --> 00:22:01,040
that that it didn't go that
route?

370
00:22:01,320 --> 00:22:05,360
No, that was years earlier.
OK.

371
00:22:06,200 --> 00:22:11,760
This journey just gets like my
life has just been kind of a

372
00:22:11,760 --> 00:22:13,400
roller coaster, so I.
Feel you.

373
00:22:13,600 --> 00:22:14,920
I get it.
I get it.

374
00:22:15,240 --> 00:22:18,880
OK, So you get to that point,
you're you're ready to go on a

375
00:22:18,880 --> 00:22:23,560
mission and then you don't and
we don't have to get into those

376
00:22:23,560 --> 00:22:26,000
reasons if you don't want to.
If they're they're personal that

377
00:22:26,000 --> 00:22:27,840
way, I I completely understand
that.

378
00:22:28,360 --> 00:22:30,960
For sure.
How did you and Haley meet?

379
00:22:31,840 --> 00:22:35,560
OK, Oh my gosh, I'll just, I'll
be brief with this.

380
00:22:35,760 --> 00:22:39,760
I ended up getting married when
I was 21 to another woman and we

381
00:22:39,760 --> 00:22:41,800
had a beautiful daughter
together.

382
00:22:43,200 --> 00:22:46,120
My I, I tell, I say that my
daughter, it was like my first

383
00:22:46,120 --> 00:22:49,680
true love because I know, you
know, the feeling of having a

384
00:22:49,680 --> 00:22:51,680
newborn baby girl like it's
just.

385
00:22:52,680 --> 00:22:57,120
Well, anyway, that marriage is,
it is just one of the most

386
00:22:57,120 --> 00:22:58,760
stressful things I've ever been
through.

387
00:22:59,000 --> 00:23:03,120
So that doesn't work out and we
end up getting divorced, which

388
00:23:03,120 --> 00:23:05,080
is not something I wanted.
It was one of the most

389
00:23:05,080 --> 00:23:07,800
devastating experiences I've had
to go through, but very

390
00:23:07,800 --> 00:23:09,720
humbling.
It was very humbling and it

391
00:23:10,120 --> 00:23:12,640
showed me some things I needed
to learn about myself.

392
00:23:13,480 --> 00:23:19,520
And so a year after I was
separated from my ex-wife and a

393
00:23:19,520 --> 00:23:23,880
few months after our divorce was
officially finalized, I saw

394
00:23:23,880 --> 00:23:26,120
Haley working in the grocery
store.

395
00:23:26,360 --> 00:23:29,760
And I, at that point I had sworn
off women, me and my homies.

396
00:23:29,840 --> 00:23:33,720
We, we, we were living the
bachelor life like we were

397
00:23:33,720 --> 00:23:37,960
hitting the gym, eating healthy,
just living the bachelor,

398
00:23:37,960 --> 00:23:40,240
bachelor life.
My, my best friend had also been

399
00:23:40,240 --> 00:23:42,320
through a divorce, so he swore
off women as well.

400
00:23:42,800 --> 00:23:45,320
And then, and I told the Lord,
I'm never doing that again

401
00:23:45,440 --> 00:23:47,280
because that was the worst thing
I've ever been through.

402
00:23:48,560 --> 00:23:50,760
And I already know.
I know your story, so I know you

403
00:23:50,760 --> 00:23:52,560
know what I'm talking about.
Oh, I know what you're talking

404
00:23:52,720 --> 00:23:53,560
about.
Yeah, I got.

405
00:23:54,360 --> 00:23:58,080
Yes, I'm I'm at the grocery
store in Rexburg, ID Brolin

406
00:23:58,080 --> 00:24:00,040
specifically.
Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.

407
00:24:00,040 --> 00:24:04,040
Like, like Rexburg, like the
Mormon Taliban, part of like

408
00:24:04,040 --> 00:24:05,320
Mormon deaths, right?
I mean.

409
00:24:05,320 --> 00:24:08,320
Like during yes, so during my
first.

410
00:24:09,160 --> 00:24:11,240
I have a theory on Rexburg.
Right.

411
00:24:11,280 --> 00:24:12,680
OK.
Which were the ones that were

412
00:24:12,680 --> 00:24:14,440
even too extreme for Brigham
Young?

413
00:24:14,440 --> 00:24:16,640
He was like, oh, you need to go
settle Rexburg.

414
00:24:16,640 --> 00:24:20,640
You're gonna love it up there.
Yeah, dude.

415
00:24:21,000 --> 00:24:23,800
Yeah, agree.
So so you're, you're rolling.

416
00:24:25,560 --> 00:24:28,520
You're you're rolling big time
in the happening place of

417
00:24:28,520 --> 00:24:29,800
Rexburg.
Yeah.

418
00:24:29,800 --> 00:24:31,920
And you just happen to walk into
the grocery store and meet

419
00:24:31,920 --> 00:24:33,640
Haley?
Yes, OK.

420
00:24:33,720 --> 00:24:36,200
And just real quick, I grew up
in Montana.

421
00:24:36,640 --> 00:24:40,960
I'm I joined the Army in my
first marriage and we after boot

422
00:24:40,960 --> 00:24:44,160
camp, we moved to Rexburg or
after basic training, we moved

423
00:24:44,160 --> 00:24:47,240
to Rexburg, me and my ex-wife.
So that's why I was in Rexburg.

424
00:24:47,280 --> 00:24:51,880
Anyway, yes, I'd torn off women.
I roll through the grocery store

425
00:24:52,360 --> 00:24:56,680
and I see this really, really
cute self checkout girl and I

426
00:24:56,680 --> 00:25:01,360
had torn off women and then I
saw her and everything just time

427
00:25:01,360 --> 00:25:05,480
froze and the spirit literally
said you're going to marry her.

428
00:25:06,480 --> 00:25:10,480
And I, I thought she was the
most beautiful and I I just

429
00:25:10,760 --> 00:25:15,080
innately knew she was very pure
without having ever met her.

430
00:25:15,560 --> 00:25:17,760
She was pure.
She was not worldly.

431
00:25:17,960 --> 00:25:19,760
She was traditional you could
say.

432
00:25:20,520 --> 00:25:22,920
Anyway, the spirit told me I was
going to marry her.

433
00:25:23,200 --> 00:25:26,400
I already I was in love with her
immediately and I went back out

434
00:25:26,400 --> 00:25:28,800
to my car thinking I had just
lost my mind.

435
00:25:29,080 --> 00:25:30,600
You know what I mean?
So.

436
00:25:30,880 --> 00:25:34,960
Now, Haley, he didn't lead when
he first introduced himself with

437
00:25:35,120 --> 00:25:37,520
hey, the spirit told me we're
going to be husband and wife,

438
00:25:37,520 --> 00:25:39,800
right?
I mean, he didn't go quite that

439
00:25:39,800 --> 00:25:42,040
far like time he met you, did
he?

440
00:25:44,840 --> 00:25:47,280
No, he.
It took me months, it took me

441
00:25:47,280 --> 00:25:51,520
months to work up the courage
to, to even like talk to her so.

442
00:25:51,520 --> 00:25:54,760
OK, I'm about to reveal
something here, and this is not

443
00:25:54,760 --> 00:25:56,960
a gift of prophecy.
I'm just going to say it.

444
00:25:57,200 --> 00:26:00,080
You were making up excuses to go
to that grocery store, my man.

445
00:26:00,400 --> 00:26:02,000
Oh bro.
What?

446
00:26:02,120 --> 00:26:04,600
I'm right, aren't I?
Dude I was in bro.

447
00:26:05,200 --> 00:26:08,400
That's my guy.
I I was in brolhims like several

448
00:26:08,400 --> 00:26:10,320
times a week.
Oh yeah, it.

449
00:26:10,360 --> 00:26:14,360
Was so oblivious.
Yeah, but but like, I'm just

450
00:26:14,360 --> 00:26:17,640
imagining you broing out on the
couch with your homies and

451
00:26:17,640 --> 00:26:19,360
someone's like, man, you know
what?

452
00:26:19,360 --> 00:26:22,640
I think we only have one, you
know, two days worth of toilet

453
00:26:22,640 --> 00:26:26,200
paper left and Ellie, yours
like, well, give me my keys, I'm

454
00:26:26,200 --> 00:26:27,120
off.
And yes.

455
00:26:27,480 --> 00:26:30,160
Yeah, well, it's funny that
that's so real.

456
00:26:30,240 --> 00:26:33,000
Your example is so funny because
there was a toilet paper

457
00:26:33,000 --> 00:26:34,880
shortage, remember, in the
beginning couple.

458
00:26:35,360 --> 00:26:36,600
Yep.
And that's when that was.

459
00:26:36,720 --> 00:26:38,920
And yeah, so you bet I was, you
know, it was perfect.

460
00:26:39,520 --> 00:26:41,280
It just worked out.
OK.

461
00:26:41,520 --> 00:26:43,600
All right.
Haley, did you notice him right

462
00:26:43,600 --> 00:26:48,880
away?
Not not in the same way that he

463
00:26:49,120 --> 00:26:52,480
had noticed me.
I was pretty much in work mode

464
00:26:52,480 --> 00:26:58,720
all day and, and in this, well,
I hadn't sworn off men.

465
00:27:00,400 --> 00:27:03,840
I had recently gotten out of a
relationship to prepare for my

466
00:27:03,840 --> 00:27:07,480
mission.
And so I was like, I'm not, I'm

467
00:27:07,480 --> 00:27:10,760
not going to date anybody right
now because I need to focus on

468
00:27:10,760 --> 00:27:16,440
getting ready, you know?
And so I wasn't like looking to

469
00:27:16,440 --> 00:27:21,360
date anybody, you know, And I
was so oblivious every time he

470
00:27:21,360 --> 00:27:25,520
came in, we probably said we
probably exchanged like.

471
00:27:26,400 --> 00:27:30,560
Have a good one, yeah.
Like we, we probably, that's

472
00:27:30,600 --> 00:27:32,680
probably not all we said to each
other.

473
00:27:33,040 --> 00:27:36,640
And I was like, like, he would,
I would be a regular cashier

474
00:27:36,640 --> 00:27:39,880
that day and he would come
through my life and I didn't

475
00:27:40,000 --> 00:27:42,920
even think twice.
Like it didn't dawn on you like

476
00:27:42,920 --> 00:27:47,160
the fourth time that day of him
buying sardines and like, toilet

477
00:27:47,160 --> 00:27:49,800
paper wasn't enough to be like,
hey, maybe the guy's got an

478
00:27:49,800 --> 00:27:52,480
interest or.
No, it was pretty funny.

479
00:27:52,680 --> 00:27:56,320
I didn't really remember him.
He had never really stuck out,

480
00:27:56,560 --> 00:28:00,320
but but he had come into the
store with his daughter at one

481
00:28:00,320 --> 00:28:02,680
point and she was like a little
toddler.

482
00:28:03,600 --> 00:28:08,640
And I remember, I remember going
home and telling my family that

483
00:28:08,640 --> 00:28:11,720
I had just seen like the cutest
little girl at the grocery store

484
00:28:11,720 --> 00:28:17,240
that day and, you know, had no
idea that later on I would

485
00:28:17,240 --> 00:28:20,680
become her stepmom.
So that was pretty.

486
00:28:20,800 --> 00:28:22,120
That was pretty fun to look back
on.

487
00:28:22,920 --> 00:28:25,360
Was that calculated?
Were you using your daughter as

488
00:28:25,360 --> 00:28:28,400
a wingman?
You know, the cuteness factor

489
00:28:28,400 --> 00:28:30,920
was something.
You calculated that.

490
00:28:31,440 --> 00:28:35,240
But I it's not like I wasn't
exploiting her per SE.

491
00:28:35,240 --> 00:28:39,960
But the cutest factor works, you
know?

492
00:28:39,960 --> 00:28:43,360
The cuteness factor works, man.
I know you got to roll with it,

493
00:28:43,360 --> 00:28:46,320
I'm just saying, I mean you're
only blessed with the tools the

494
00:28:46,320 --> 00:28:48,960
Lords gives you and you got to
use what you got, so I get it.

495
00:28:50,360 --> 00:28:52,240
All right, so who talks to who
1st?

496
00:28:53,040 --> 00:28:55,120
What's that?
Who talks to who 1st?

497
00:28:55,360 --> 00:28:59,320
Well, I.
More than like, thank you for

498
00:28:59,320 --> 00:29:01,120
your time.
And then out the door you go.

499
00:29:01,160 --> 00:29:03,280
I mean like one first time you
initiate.

500
00:29:03,800 --> 00:29:08,120
One fateful day in April of
2020, I had, I had noticed your

501
00:29:08,120 --> 00:29:10,520
months, months previous, like in
February.

502
00:29:10,520 --> 00:29:14,320
And the whole time I was just,
you know, head over heels.

503
00:29:14,880 --> 00:29:17,440
Well, I finally worked up the
courage to go in and give her my

504
00:29:17,440 --> 00:29:22,080
number and I I wrote it on
receipt paper, but she thought

505
00:29:22,080 --> 00:29:25,080
it was I was just handing her
some garbage and she almost

506
00:29:25,080 --> 00:29:30,160
threw it away.
You could be surprised how many

507
00:29:30,160 --> 00:29:32,560
people just hand you their
receipts and stuff away.

508
00:29:34,800 --> 00:29:38,120
But I'm gonna say it was
probably the spirit that was

509
00:29:38,120 --> 00:29:41,680
like, hold up, open it up and
see what's inside.

510
00:29:42,480 --> 00:29:45,080
So did you try to stop her?
She was about to throw it away.

511
00:29:45,240 --> 00:29:47,920
No, I just, I like got out of
there as fast as I could.

512
00:29:48,080 --> 00:29:49,640
He.
Gave it to me it was like have a

513
00:29:49,640 --> 00:29:52,680
nice day or whatever it like so.
Yeah, wow.

514
00:29:52,760 --> 00:29:54,960
That was a leap of faith.
It was a good thing the Spirit

515
00:29:54,960 --> 00:29:58,640
was operating there.
I I almost threw it away and I

516
00:29:58,640 --> 00:30:01,480
didn't text him back for like 5
days.

517
00:30:01,680 --> 00:30:04,480
Oh gosh, that was the worst five
days of my entire life.

518
00:30:04,560 --> 00:30:06,400
You.
Were checking your phone every

519
00:30:06,400 --> 00:30:09,160
10 minutes, you'd be.
Able to me and my buddies were

520
00:30:09,160 --> 00:30:12,600
playing NES 'cause we were we
were into retro games so we were

521
00:30:12,600 --> 00:30:15,520
playing NES and I was like, I
didn't even have the heart to.

522
00:30:16,400 --> 00:30:18,960
We were playing some dumb game
just to pass the time and I was

523
00:30:18,960 --> 00:30:22,160
just so broken.
Oh, it's been 5 days.

524
00:30:22,680 --> 00:30:24,080
It's over.
I'm cooked, you know.

525
00:30:24,280 --> 00:30:26,640
Well, now and, and now you're
really hoesed because you can't

526
00:30:26,640 --> 00:30:29,160
even go to your family.
You know your local grocery

527
00:30:29,160 --> 00:30:31,080
store, right?
You got to go, you got to pick

528
00:30:31,080 --> 00:30:32,760
another one, so.
Exactly.

529
00:30:33,400 --> 00:30:36,160
Exactly.
Can I just say I'm super excited

530
00:30:36,160 --> 00:30:38,400
that you guys didn't, like meet
on a website?

531
00:30:38,400 --> 00:30:41,240
Like, that's cool, right?
Now you're getting back to my

532
00:30:41,240 --> 00:30:43,160
time frame, right?
Yeah, dude.

533
00:30:43,720 --> 00:30:45,960
We, we, we like it old school.
Yeah, yeah.

534
00:30:46,000 --> 00:30:49,200
No, which will become a thing I
think later on.

535
00:30:49,640 --> 00:30:54,840
OK, so so tell me about like
first date, how did how did it

536
00:30:54,840 --> 00:30:56,640
all go you?
Wanna.

537
00:30:59,520 --> 00:31:04,720
OK so we hung out just us and
some other friends a couple

538
00:31:04,720 --> 00:31:10,560
times before I actually told him
that he could take me on a date

539
00:31:10,560 --> 00:31:15,800
just the two of us.
But then what did we do for our

540
00:31:15,920 --> 00:31:18,840
first?
Date we, we painted, we had some

541
00:31:18,840 --> 00:31:24,760
mugs like some we, we painted
mugs that they were going to

542
00:31:24,760 --> 00:31:26,600
fire up and to kill them.
You know, we went to one of

543
00:31:26,600 --> 00:31:29,280
those pottery shops.
But because it was during COVID,

544
00:31:29,280 --> 00:31:31,560
they wouldn't let us paint it in
the shop.

545
00:31:31,960 --> 00:31:34,360
So we had to get our stuff and
leave and then just take them

546
00:31:34,360 --> 00:31:39,760
back later to get fired.
And So what we did instead was

547
00:31:39,760 --> 00:31:43,160
we what was it, the Snake River?
It was.

548
00:31:43,640 --> 00:31:45,720
We went to the park in Idaho
Falls by the river.

549
00:31:45,960 --> 00:31:47,800
Gotcha.
Yeah, We, we went and painted

550
00:31:47,800 --> 00:31:50,520
our mugs and then just like it
was nice, walked around and

551
00:31:50,520 --> 00:31:53,360
talked for a few hours and it
was, it was a really nice day.

552
00:31:53,360 --> 00:31:53,920
It was.
Nice.

553
00:31:54,240 --> 00:31:56,400
Yep.
Well, I'm glad that worked out

554
00:31:56,400 --> 00:31:58,840
because my first thought was see
Anthony Fauci.

555
00:31:58,840 --> 00:32:04,160
He hates love you guys being
together at all inside that to

556
00:32:04,160 --> 00:32:07,320
paint your but it found a way.
Love finds a way.

557
00:32:07,720 --> 00:32:10,480
Love finds a way.
And it's funny because her

558
00:32:10,480 --> 00:32:12,880
family were very much
constitutional, like

559
00:32:12,880 --> 00:32:16,720
Jeffersonian constitutionalist.
And I also, I also leaned in

560
00:32:16,720 --> 00:32:19,200
that direction heavily.
And so it was a, it was a match

561
00:32:19,200 --> 00:32:21,040
made.
So we didn't wear masks or

562
00:32:21,040 --> 00:32:23,040
anything.
We, we said no, no way.

563
00:32:23,360 --> 00:32:26,280
So yeah, we.
So this young rebellious couple

564
00:32:26,400 --> 00:32:29,800
that just want to stick it to
the government find love

565
00:32:30,280 --> 00:32:31,760
integratly or.
You.

566
00:32:32,520 --> 00:32:36,160
Know I'm going.
To say didn't didn't BYUI

567
00:32:36,520 --> 00:32:38,800
clothes or something like that
for a little while, yeah.

568
00:32:38,880 --> 00:32:43,520
So it was so quiet during like
that summer and everything and

569
00:32:43,520 --> 00:32:47,200
we were like going on walks all
the time and like it.

570
00:32:49,200 --> 00:32:53,600
It was like it was just, it was
a really great summer.

571
00:32:53,600 --> 00:32:56,720
It was just really peaceful
despite everything that was

572
00:32:56,720 --> 00:33:00,400
going on.
Yep, yeah, one of the best years

573
00:33:00,400 --> 00:33:03,480
of my life.
Literally like 2020.

574
00:33:03,520 --> 00:33:06,040
I know, I know for a lot of
people it was terrible, but we

575
00:33:06,040 --> 00:33:08,840
had the best year.
It was so amazing.

576
00:33:10,760 --> 00:33:15,800
So how long did you guys date?
Five months in Mormon fashion.

577
00:33:16,440 --> 00:33:21,440
Nice, nice, nice.
So at some point, Eleor, I'm

578
00:33:21,440 --> 00:33:24,400
guessing you have to tell, tell
Haley here that you'd been

579
00:33:24,400 --> 00:33:27,920
married once before, right?
Yeah, the first date, the one we

580
00:33:27,920 --> 00:33:32,360
just described, I confess like,
look, I have a daughter, I've

581
00:33:32,360 --> 00:33:36,080
been divorced and and you know,
at that point after a divorce,

582
00:33:36,080 --> 00:33:41,360
it's like there's no way any
like there's no way I'll find

583
00:33:42,200 --> 00:33:44,040
solid love because I'm a
divorcee.

584
00:33:44,040 --> 00:33:47,680
There's some shame, I think, or
there's some stigma, you know?

585
00:33:47,680 --> 00:33:52,080
And so, yeah, yeah, I, I told
her the first date and she, I

586
00:33:52,080 --> 00:33:54,640
was like, kind of nervous about
that.

587
00:33:54,640 --> 00:33:58,720
And she just was so graceful and
didn't even seem to care.

588
00:33:59,160 --> 00:34:01,160
That's awesome.
That's awesome.

589
00:34:01,560 --> 00:34:06,920
And and so one date turns into
five and then next thing you

590
00:34:06,920 --> 00:34:11,199
know things are now are you
active Eleor at this point?

591
00:34:12,120 --> 00:34:15,320
Yeah, so 20, OK, so I've
described kind of my roller

592
00:34:15,320 --> 00:34:19,239
coaster life that included
several periods of mostly

593
00:34:19,239 --> 00:34:21,679
inactivity, but a few of
activity.

594
00:34:21,679 --> 00:34:24,560
So I was just back and forth.
So 2020 is what woke me up.

595
00:34:25,120 --> 00:34:29,120
And I've ever since 2020, I'm
like the world's kind of not

596
00:34:29,120 --> 00:34:33,880
reliable, not a stable place.
So I need to really put God

597
00:34:33,880 --> 00:34:36,400
first.
So since 2020, I've never looked

598
00:34:36,400 --> 00:34:39,880
back like I've been.
I've been deeply devoted to to

599
00:34:39,880 --> 00:34:42,400
my faith.
So you've already had this

600
00:34:42,400 --> 00:34:45,960
witness in the grocery store the
first time you see her.

601
00:34:48,840 --> 00:34:51,800
Does that get stronger overtime?
Does it maintain?

602
00:34:51,800 --> 00:34:54,480
I mean, when do you decide like
it's one thing to have that

603
00:34:54,480 --> 00:34:57,600
prompting.
It's another thing to like take

604
00:34:57,600 --> 00:35:00,800
the leap again, right?
So you, you've reestablished

605
00:35:00,800 --> 00:35:03,120
your faith, right?
Which is interesting that you

606
00:35:03,120 --> 00:35:07,400
establish it in 2020 because
that's when most of the churches

607
00:35:07,400 --> 00:35:09,880
are closed.
Yeah, for sure.

608
00:35:10,160 --> 00:35:16,720
Right and so you see that things
aren't quite right in the world,

609
00:35:16,720 --> 00:35:18,760
right?
Things are going off the rails.

610
00:35:19,640 --> 00:35:23,080
I I've always said that in some
ways I think COVID was maybe a

611
00:35:23,080 --> 00:35:24,960
dry run for the real thing when
that.

612
00:35:24,960 --> 00:35:26,760
Does happen?
Yeah, same here.

613
00:35:27,120 --> 00:35:34,760
There was so much that was
exposed with folks that was

614
00:35:34,760 --> 00:35:37,320
taken for granted, right?
I remember just in my

615
00:35:37,320 --> 00:35:41,240
neighborhood now I'm out of the
church by this point, but I was

616
00:35:41,240 --> 00:35:43,360
still living in the bubble and
ORM, right?

617
00:35:43,640 --> 00:35:46,880
And so I was still living in the
same neighborhood that I left

618
00:35:46,880 --> 00:35:49,560
the church in.
And dude, there were a couple of

619
00:35:49,880 --> 00:35:54,080
nasty divorces that took place,
a few during this time because

620
00:35:54,080 --> 00:35:55,680
people were just forced
together.

621
00:35:56,000 --> 00:35:58,800
And so if you had, if you didn't
have a great marriage or great

622
00:35:58,800 --> 00:36:03,120
family relationships, it really
showed because you are now stuck

623
00:36:03,120 --> 00:36:06,520
together.
And so that was tough on

624
00:36:06,520 --> 00:36:08,240
everybody.
But you find your faith in this

625
00:36:08,240 --> 00:36:09,240
time.
What do you think?

626
00:36:09,240 --> 00:36:13,320
It was about that time period?
You kind of said that the world

627
00:36:13,320 --> 00:36:16,160
was going off the rails.
But I mean, explain the thought

628
00:36:16,160 --> 00:36:20,520
process here during 2020 of what
leads you back into activity

629
00:36:20,520 --> 00:36:22,640
within the Gospel.
Yeah.

630
00:36:22,640 --> 00:36:31,360
So I just, you know, a desire
for salvation that the

631
00:36:31,360 --> 00:36:34,600
reassurance that because when
you're, when you're not

632
00:36:35,160 --> 00:36:38,640
maintaining covenant
relationship, it's a lot easier

633
00:36:38,640 --> 00:36:42,040
to be scared.
So I, I don't want to say that

634
00:36:42,040 --> 00:36:47,200
fear was my motivator.
I but I, it just was like, for

635
00:36:47,200 --> 00:36:52,000
some reason it just woke me up.
Like I have two choices in 20

636
00:36:52,000 --> 00:36:54,560
years.
I could be dead in a ditch or,

637
00:36:54,560 --> 00:36:58,400
or something worse, or I could
be in faithful covenant with

638
00:36:58,400 --> 00:37:02,000
God, thriving during insane
times.

639
00:37:02,000 --> 00:37:04,800
You know, I, I just realized,
like at some point I have to

640
00:37:04,800 --> 00:37:07,920
make a choice.
And for, for whatever reason,

641
00:37:07,920 --> 00:37:12,720
COVID was the impetus because,
you know, the world's always

642
00:37:12,720 --> 00:37:17,360
been a crazy place.
There's been disasters and, and

643
00:37:17,360 --> 00:37:21,080
sort of apocalyptic scenarios,
if you will, throughout all of

644
00:37:21,080 --> 00:37:23,480
history.
But, but COVID really just got

645
00:37:23,480 --> 00:37:24,120
me.
It was.

646
00:37:24,320 --> 00:37:26,240
It kind of smacked me in the
head a little bit and woke me

647
00:37:26,240 --> 00:37:29,120
up.
Well, I think every generation

648
00:37:29,120 --> 00:37:30,960
has at least one of those,
right?

649
00:37:30,960 --> 00:37:33,320
Yeah.
And and I think that that for

650
00:37:33,320 --> 00:37:36,440
your generation, COVID was was
the thing right now.

651
00:37:36,800 --> 00:37:39,000
I said several because you know
you could.

652
00:37:39,040 --> 00:37:40,080
You're going to live through
more.

653
00:37:40,520 --> 00:37:44,440
But, and I was, I was 5 when 911
happened.

654
00:37:44,440 --> 00:37:47,000
So that changed everything, you
know, not that I remember the

655
00:37:47,000 --> 00:37:50,080
world before 911, but I know it
was vastly different.

656
00:37:50,080 --> 00:37:53,480
So yeah.
But COVID definitely a huge 1

657
00:37:53,480 --> 00:37:56,320
though, and it happened, you
know, when I was an adult and

658
00:37:56,320 --> 00:37:58,560
able to really understand what
was going on.

659
00:37:58,560 --> 00:38:02,040
So yeah, yeah, I agree with you.
Interesting.

660
00:38:03,200 --> 00:38:06,360
And so there's not really anyone
you can report to in 2020,

661
00:38:06,360 --> 00:38:08,600
right?
Because usually, you know,

662
00:38:08,640 --> 00:38:10,760
you're coming back into activity
in the church.

663
00:38:10,760 --> 00:38:14,360
It initiates with you walking
through the doors and, you know,

664
00:38:14,920 --> 00:38:18,480
getting to know people again.
This time though, I mean,

665
00:38:18,480 --> 00:38:21,240
because really, if I'm not
mistaken, the churches don't

666
00:38:21,240 --> 00:38:26,360
open back up until 20/21, right?
So in 2020, it's just you and

667
00:38:26,360 --> 00:38:28,040
God.
Yeah.

668
00:38:28,040 --> 00:38:32,080
And well, then I found Haley.
Me and her dad found out we had

669
00:38:32,080 --> 00:38:34,640
an insane amount of things in
common.

670
00:38:35,160 --> 00:38:37,800
Our upbringing.
We, we were both punks back in

671
00:38:37,800 --> 00:38:39,240
the day.
Like I was a screamer in a

672
00:38:39,240 --> 00:38:42,920
hardcore punk band and he was
into punk.

673
00:38:42,920 --> 00:38:45,560
We both liked we, we had musical
similarities.

674
00:38:45,560 --> 00:38:49,560
We were both constitutionalists.
So and then so her, her dad,

675
00:38:49,960 --> 00:38:53,440
they would do home sacrament
meetings and so it was just me

676
00:38:53,440 --> 00:38:55,920
and God, but I would also sort
of attend their sacrament

677
00:38:55,920 --> 00:38:57,920
meeting in their home when I
started dating Haley.

678
00:38:58,560 --> 00:39:02,040
OK, All right.
So at what point do you realize,

679
00:39:02,040 --> 00:39:04,640
OK, things are going to be
serious with this, with this

680
00:39:04,640 --> 00:39:07,400
young woman?
I sort of had that sense

681
00:39:07,400 --> 00:39:10,040
immediately just because of the
impression I'd received.

682
00:39:10,480 --> 00:39:12,400
But you know, there was still
some doubt.

683
00:39:12,400 --> 00:39:19,600
So probably about three months
in I was really getting the itch

684
00:39:19,600 --> 00:39:24,760
to be married to her and she
expressed the same feeling and

685
00:39:24,760 --> 00:39:27,200
she had actually received a
prompting that she should marry

686
00:39:27,200 --> 00:39:30,840
me about that time, about 3
months in, like I said.

687
00:39:31,200 --> 00:39:36,400
So now does Haley as things
start getting serious, right?

688
00:39:36,880 --> 00:39:41,160
Because here, here's what also
I'll say, right, for Mormonism

689
00:39:41,160 --> 00:39:43,800
in general, not just
fundamentalism and not just the

690
00:39:43,800 --> 00:39:48,080
church with Mormonism, you're
not dating just to have fun,

691
00:39:48,160 --> 00:39:50,600
right?
I mean, this is a mission.

692
00:39:50,600 --> 00:39:55,440
You are 100% there to lock up
your eternal companion, right?

693
00:39:57,080 --> 00:40:01,960
And so as as you guys are having
conversations about, you know,

694
00:40:02,320 --> 00:40:06,960
the deeper things, were you, I'm
guessing you weren't endowed at

695
00:40:06,960 --> 00:40:09,840
this point in the LDS church.
I actually was.

696
00:40:09,840 --> 00:40:14,560
I had been endowed during a six
month period of activity.

697
00:40:15,160 --> 00:40:20,000
I had been endowed during my
first marriage in 2017.

698
00:40:20,440 --> 00:40:22,840
OK.
So I, I was endowed, but I

699
00:40:22,960 --> 00:40:27,880
honestly, I had only, I had only
gone once or twice to an

700
00:40:27,880 --> 00:40:29,440
endowment session.
OK.

701
00:40:30,240 --> 00:40:34,280
But for Haley, based on what
she's, she told me she was

702
00:40:34,280 --> 00:40:36,480
pretty active, right.
So a temple marriage was

703
00:40:36,480 --> 00:40:38,640
something she was probably
aiming for.

704
00:40:39,000 --> 00:40:43,640
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
And so do do those kind of

705
00:40:43,640 --> 00:40:47,000
conversations come up in the
course of you guys courting or

706
00:40:47,000 --> 00:40:49,320
dating?
Yeah, yeah.

707
00:40:49,320 --> 00:40:52,680
And I I had, like I said, I had
my heart had changed in early

708
00:40:52,680 --> 00:40:56,040
2020.
And actually before COVID,

709
00:40:56,200 --> 00:40:58,920
before like a month before COVID
happened, I had a change of

710
00:40:58,920 --> 00:41:00,840
heart.
But but COVID helped wake me up

711
00:41:00,840 --> 00:41:04,040
further to the seriousness.
I guess I I just remembered that

712
00:41:05,360 --> 00:41:07,560
COVID had helped wake me up to
the seriousness of, you know,

713
00:41:07,560 --> 00:41:12,640
getting right with God big time.
But what was the question?

714
00:41:12,640 --> 00:41:15,800
I'm sorry.
The the talks you and Haley had

715
00:41:15,800 --> 00:41:17,640
about.
Yeah, yeah.

716
00:41:17,840 --> 00:41:19,040
And.
That sort of stuff.

717
00:41:19,480 --> 00:41:20,760
Right.
Yeah, that was definitely a big

718
00:41:20,760 --> 00:41:24,120
part of the conversation for
both of us.

719
00:41:25,680 --> 00:41:26,880
OK.
All right.

720
00:41:28,360 --> 00:41:32,800
So you get to a point to where
you're ready to like, pop the

721
00:41:32,800 --> 00:41:35,200
question, right?
Yeah.

722
00:41:36,160 --> 00:41:40,880
OK, so how does that happen?
I proposed to her.

723
00:41:42,240 --> 00:41:43,600
Don't say it at the grocery
store.

724
00:41:43,880 --> 00:41:45,000
Don't say it at the grass.
No.

725
00:41:45,080 --> 00:41:52,560
No way, no by by the orchard.
It was either on the temple

726
00:41:52,560 --> 00:41:57,440
grounds or the orchard on campus
right by the temple grounds in

727
00:41:57,440 --> 00:42:00,560
Rexburg.
OK, all right, good enough.

728
00:42:00,600 --> 00:42:02,680
And I'm guessing by this point
she knows it's coming.

729
00:42:03,200 --> 00:42:05,920
Oh yeah, I mean, we had already,
it was already like a done deal.

730
00:42:05,920 --> 00:42:08,200
I just had to formalize it with
a proposal.

731
00:42:08,920 --> 00:42:13,080
Gotcha, gotcha.
And so you you ask her, she says

732
00:42:13,080 --> 00:42:15,520
yes.
Where'd you guys end up getting

733
00:42:15,520 --> 00:42:16,360
married?
What temple?

734
00:42:17,080 --> 00:42:20,560
Rexburg ID when they had when
they only had one temple.

735
00:42:21,040 --> 00:42:22,720
Oh, OK.
All right.

736
00:42:22,760 --> 00:42:25,160
Gotcha, gotcha.
Is the second one completed

737
00:42:25,160 --> 00:42:29,720
already?
I honestly I have no idea.

738
00:42:29,720 --> 00:42:32,520
OK.
All right, all right, so you

739
00:42:32,520 --> 00:42:38,640
guys get married and stuff and
what comes next?

740
00:42:38,640 --> 00:42:42,280
I mean, you guys, what's that
first year of marriage like for

741
00:42:42,280 --> 00:42:43,640
you?
Amazing.

742
00:42:45,280 --> 00:42:49,200
We just, we had a lot of fun
hanging out.

743
00:42:49,600 --> 00:42:53,040
I loved my job at the time I was
welding and the culture at my

744
00:42:53,040 --> 00:42:55,280
job was amazing.
And I just I loved welding and

745
00:42:55,280 --> 00:42:59,400
listening to gospel podcasts and
YouTube channels all day.

746
00:42:59,400 --> 00:43:02,920
So I learned a lot that year
doing that as well, just by

747
00:43:02,920 --> 00:43:06,120
virtue of being able to listen
to Mormon content all day.

748
00:43:06,120 --> 00:43:09,520
But amazing fun.
Some of the best memories I have

749
00:43:09,960 --> 00:43:12,480
are first year marriage and and
that's also when I started

750
00:43:12,480 --> 00:43:15,720
discovering fundamentalist
doctrine that first year.

751
00:43:16,400 --> 00:43:20,760
Right, right.
And so now you're, you're, I'm

752
00:43:20,760 --> 00:43:23,080
assuming that you and Haley are
probably going back to the

753
00:43:23,080 --> 00:43:27,120
temple quite a bit together.
Yeah, yeah, we tried to go off

754
00:43:27,120 --> 00:43:33,040
and like once a month at least.
And during those those times, is

755
00:43:33,040 --> 00:43:35,040
there anything significant that
happens?

756
00:43:35,040 --> 00:43:37,520
I mean, any promptings or
anything you can think back of

757
00:43:37,520 --> 00:43:40,200
that's maybe a foreshadowing of
what's to come or?

758
00:43:41,080 --> 00:43:46,840
No, not in the temple, but I
discovered understanding out of

759
00:43:46,840 --> 00:43:50,880
God teachings by Drew Briny into
in that year and that it was

760
00:43:50,880 --> 00:43:54,360
2021 at that point that but
still our first year of

761
00:43:54,360 --> 00:43:57,440
marriage.
And I discovered that because my

762
00:43:57,440 --> 00:44:03,560
father-in-law, I was friends
with the admin of Mormon

763
00:44:03,560 --> 00:44:05,800
Chronicles.
I think it's now faithful Saints

764
00:44:05,800 --> 00:44:09,080
or something like that.
But on Mormon Chronicles, he had

765
00:44:09,080 --> 00:44:12,320
a recommended book section
because I would read those posts

766
00:44:12,360 --> 00:44:16,080
on that website a lot.
And I, I just bought

767
00:44:16,080 --> 00:44:19,280
understanding Adam God teachings
because I, I had like just heard

768
00:44:19,280 --> 00:44:21,040
of it and I didn't know anything
about it.

769
00:44:21,560 --> 00:44:25,160
And then that just really that
was like a paradigm shift.

770
00:44:26,320 --> 00:44:30,680
Well, how familiar at up to the
point you're married, how

771
00:44:30,680 --> 00:44:34,200
familiar are you with like old
school Mormon doctrine, Right?

772
00:44:34,200 --> 00:44:37,080
I, yeah.
Is this something that's on your

773
00:44:37,080 --> 00:44:38,440
radar?
Cuz you said you went through

774
00:44:38,440 --> 00:44:40,800
fits of inactivity, right?
Yeah.

775
00:44:40,800 --> 00:44:45,960
And so has this come up on your
radar before?

776
00:44:45,960 --> 00:44:47,920
Is this the first time you're
hearing about it?

777
00:44:47,920 --> 00:44:49,800
What, what, what's your
thoughts?

778
00:44:49,800 --> 00:44:51,760
I mean, what?
What's the story there behind

779
00:44:51,760 --> 00:44:54,080
that?
Yeah, I knew.

780
00:44:54,440 --> 00:44:58,120
I knew plural marriage or
polygyny was a part of the

781
00:44:58,120 --> 00:45:01,360
church's history and and I
didn't have, I didn't really

782
00:45:01,360 --> 00:45:05,200
have a problem with it at all.
I trusted that it was inspired.

783
00:45:05,680 --> 00:45:12,240
But I had maybe heard of Adam
God teachings like once, maybe

784
00:45:12,760 --> 00:45:16,760
because I I did have a vague
memory of having come across it

785
00:45:16,760 --> 00:45:23,400
before when I had encountered
Mormon Chronicles and Drew

786
00:45:23,400 --> 00:45:27,200
Brady's book.
But but other than that, plural

787
00:45:27,200 --> 00:45:31,160
marriage was the only major
fundamentalist doctrine I had

788
00:45:31,160 --> 00:45:33,400
known.
OK, All right.

789
00:45:33,640 --> 00:45:34,520
So what?
What?

790
00:45:34,720 --> 00:45:38,600
What do you listen to that first
gets your brain moving?

791
00:45:38,600 --> 00:45:41,800
Like, oh, maybe there's
something more here going on

792
00:45:41,800 --> 00:45:43,760
than than I'm aware of.
Right.

793
00:45:43,760 --> 00:45:46,160
Because you said this is when
you really start getting into

794
00:45:46,160 --> 00:45:48,840
like fundamentalist doctrine, so
to speak.

795
00:45:49,400 --> 00:45:52,160
Yeah, yeah.
So that basically what happened

796
00:45:52,160 --> 00:45:57,800
that year.
I read, I read some books and

797
00:45:57,800 --> 00:46:00,480
that's when I developed a really
solid testimony of plural

798
00:46:00,480 --> 00:46:03,400
marriage and Adam God teachings.
What kind of books were you

799
00:46:03,400 --> 00:46:06,000
reading?
You mentioned Drew Briny's book.

800
00:46:06,520 --> 00:46:10,560
Anything else?
The other content I was reading

801
00:46:10,560 --> 00:46:14,560
wasn't particularly
fundamentalist, but it was deep.

802
00:46:14,560 --> 00:46:19,640
Doctrinally, I I was reading a
lot of over Hum Gileadi, Hugh

803
00:46:19,640 --> 00:46:25,280
Nibbly, Oh gosh, what's that
amazing book called?

804
00:46:25,680 --> 00:46:29,040
Dynasty of the Holy Grail,
Mormonism Sacred Bloodline by

805
00:46:29,040 --> 00:46:32,240
Vernon G Swanson.
I was just really, I was really

806
00:46:32,240 --> 00:46:37,920
a Mormonism geek and a geek
regarding like the Israelite

807
00:46:37,920 --> 00:46:39,920
religion and early Christianity
as well.

808
00:46:40,160 --> 00:46:43,680
I was just becoming kind of a
doctrine geek and a religion

809
00:46:43,680 --> 00:46:48,680
geek, but I did basically.
Drew Brady's book was the major

810
00:46:48,680 --> 00:46:51,640
work I've read got here.
Gotcha.

811
00:46:52,280 --> 00:46:57,960
So a lot of times, not always,
but a lot of times people,

812
00:46:57,960 --> 00:47:01,520
especially from the LDS side of
things will go through a period

813
00:47:01,520 --> 00:47:03,320
where they investigate
fundamentalism.

814
00:47:03,320 --> 00:47:07,760
But it's purely academic, right?
It's purely from a standpoint

815
00:47:07,760 --> 00:47:11,040
of, well, this is just our
history and I need to know that

816
00:47:11,320 --> 00:47:16,280
or I'm just curious about this
and that's where it ends for

817
00:47:16,280 --> 00:47:17,720
you.
Is there a period where it's

818
00:47:17,720 --> 00:47:21,160
just academic or are you feeling
it all the way through?

819
00:47:21,600 --> 00:47:26,200
I'm I'm feeling it.
It is both an academic hunger,

820
00:47:26,200 --> 00:47:29,080
but also like a spiritual
witness.

821
00:47:29,080 --> 00:47:31,400
It is both I am definitely
feeling it.

822
00:47:31,400 --> 00:47:35,200
I am looking forward to the day
that plural marriages were

823
00:47:35,200 --> 00:47:40,720
stored in the church and that
Adam God teachings are removed

824
00:47:40,720 --> 00:47:43,160
from the status of heresy.
You know what I mean?

825
00:47:43,480 --> 00:47:45,200
So I'm, I'm very much feeling
it.

826
00:47:45,520 --> 00:47:50,000
But at that point, OK, that is
when I also discovered the

827
00:47:50,000 --> 00:47:52,920
Council of 50 and the corn of
the anointed as well.

828
00:47:53,520 --> 00:47:57,040
That year, that year.
And so the same year I

829
00:47:57,040 --> 00:48:00,600
discovered Adam Godd, 2021, my
first year of marriage, I

830
00:48:00,600 --> 00:48:04,640
discovered Council 50 and corn
of the anointed.

831
00:48:04,640 --> 00:48:09,320
But I did not yet know that that
priesthood and church were two

832
00:48:09,320 --> 00:48:10,600
separate.
I was beginning to learn that

833
00:48:10,600 --> 00:48:13,440
the priesthood and the church
were two separate entities and

834
00:48:13,440 --> 00:48:16,400
that priesthood authority could
exist outside of the church.

835
00:48:16,880 --> 00:48:20,880
So I was, I was, I was like in
love with fundamentalist

836
00:48:20,880 --> 00:48:23,280
doctrine.
I had a testimony of it, but I I

837
00:48:23,280 --> 00:48:28,800
didn't know that the church was
not sort of the only authority

838
00:48:28,800 --> 00:48:30,680
or you, you know what I'm trying
to say.

839
00:48:31,080 --> 00:48:33,400
It's not the only Mormon Ave. to
pursue.

840
00:48:33,760 --> 00:48:37,280
Yeah, there you go.
That's that's probably a way, a

841
00:48:37,280 --> 00:48:39,320
way less a controversial way to
put that.

842
00:48:39,320 --> 00:48:45,360
Yes, right, right.
So none of this freaks you out

843
00:48:45,360 --> 00:48:47,120
at all as your first
encountering it then?

844
00:48:47,800 --> 00:48:51,680
No and no, like I, but I was
like, I had questions though,

845
00:48:52,080 --> 00:48:56,560
like my, my first big question
was why did the church like

846
00:48:56,560 --> 00:49:02,280
follow in lock step with like
any other global power regarding

847
00:49:02,280 --> 00:49:04,400
COVID?
Why did the church issue the

848
00:49:04,400 --> 00:49:07,720
same kind of response that any,
every US state did and that the

849
00:49:07,720 --> 00:49:11,240
UN recommended and all that?
And so that that kind of caused

850
00:49:11,240 --> 00:49:14,120
some questions.
And then I was questioning like,

851
00:49:14,120 --> 00:49:19,400
why, why are latter day St.
apostles and prophets decrying

852
00:49:19,400 --> 00:49:23,160
fundamentalist doctrine?
Like why are they calling Adam

853
00:49:23,160 --> 00:49:26,360
God teachings heresy and, and
saying Brigham never taught that

854
00:49:26,360 --> 00:49:29,000
when he like, it's indisputable
that he taught that.

855
00:49:29,000 --> 00:49:34,200
So, so questions you're starting
to formulate, and I did, I lost

856
00:49:34,200 --> 00:49:37,120
a little bit of trust in the
institution, but I still

857
00:49:37,120 --> 00:49:41,160
believed it was true.
I still fully sustained church

858
00:49:41,160 --> 00:49:44,240
leadership.
There were just some questions I

859
00:49:44,240 --> 00:49:47,000
wanted answered.
I to use a common phrase, I I

860
00:49:47,160 --> 00:49:50,040
sort of put that on the shelf.
Sure, sure.

861
00:49:50,200 --> 00:49:52,240
Nope, I get it.
OK, we're going to stop right

862
00:49:52,240 --> 00:49:54,400
there because I want to pivot
back to Haley now for a few

863
00:49:54,400 --> 00:50:01,080
minutes.
So you, you don't throw the

864
00:50:01,080 --> 00:50:03,280
number, the, the, the poor guy's
number away.

865
00:50:03,440 --> 00:50:05,000
You managed to keep a hold of
the number.

866
00:50:05,680 --> 00:50:10,360
The, the dates seem to start
going well and and you left off

867
00:50:10,360 --> 00:50:12,880
right as I was talking about
Eleor's first marriage.

868
00:50:13,120 --> 00:50:16,960
That didn't, that didn't bother
you much or, or anything.

869
00:50:16,960 --> 00:50:18,360
Haley, you were.
You were good.

870
00:50:20,880 --> 00:50:23,680
Yeah, it to me that wasn't like
a deal breaker.

871
00:50:23,960 --> 00:50:28,880
I was willing to like I was
still willing to see how it was

872
00:50:28,880 --> 00:50:31,680
going to go.
And I really wanted to actually

873
00:50:31,680 --> 00:50:33,240
meet his daughter and get to
know her.

874
00:50:35,920 --> 00:50:39,400
And so I mean, yeah, we had
talked about that.

875
00:50:40,000 --> 00:50:45,960
It was, it was pretty
intimidating when I met his

876
00:50:45,960 --> 00:50:49,240
ex-wife for the first time
because she wanted to, she

877
00:50:49,240 --> 00:50:52,320
wanted to meet me, you know,
because I was going to be

878
00:50:52,320 --> 00:50:54,280
hanging out with her daughter
and stuff like that.

879
00:50:56,520 --> 00:50:58,400
Yeah, that.
That was pretty intimidating.

880
00:50:58,400 --> 00:51:08,480
But like, just the spirit.
The spirit, there were just a

881
00:51:08,480 --> 00:51:11,400
lot of good feelings about us,
like being together and stuff.

882
00:51:12,800 --> 00:51:16,240
And I tried to stay really
prayerful about it to know like,

883
00:51:16,680 --> 00:51:19,160
should I, is this what I should
be doing instead of going on a

884
00:51:19,160 --> 00:51:19,920
mission?
You know?

885
00:51:21,840 --> 00:51:26,280
And we, even while we were
dating, we had started to have

886
00:51:26,280 --> 00:51:30,840
some like deep gospel
discussions and stuff like that.

887
00:51:32,080 --> 00:51:37,320
And it just felt like the Lord
had really brought the right

888
00:51:37,320 --> 00:51:42,200
person to me because growing up,
especially as we started to

889
00:51:42,200 --> 00:51:47,880
embrace more, you know, like
fundamentalist type doctrines

890
00:51:47,880 --> 00:51:51,880
and stuff like that, there was
that concern of like, how am I

891
00:51:51,880 --> 00:51:55,600
going to find somebody that like
agrees with all the same stuff

892
00:51:55,600 --> 00:52:02,320
that I do, you know?
And so the Lord definitely like

893
00:52:02,320 --> 00:52:04,840
put my mind to ease 'cause he's
like, it's OK, I got the right

894
00:52:04,840 --> 00:52:09,200
person for you.
And yeah, the spirit was just

895
00:52:09,200 --> 00:52:10,920
really strong while we were
dating.

896
00:52:11,800 --> 00:52:15,960
And then and then I, I too had
an experience later on while we

897
00:52:15,960 --> 00:52:19,960
were dating where the Lord was
like, you're going to marry that

898
00:52:19,960 --> 00:52:23,400
guy and so.
Can you talk a little bit about

899
00:52:23,400 --> 00:52:24,560
that?
What was that moment?

900
00:52:26,480 --> 00:52:32,480
So we, I so because church
wasn't because church was kind

901
00:52:32,480 --> 00:52:36,640
of like cancelled and stuff
during COVID, he would come over

902
00:52:36,640 --> 00:52:40,240
sometimes on Sunday for just our
little family meeting that we

903
00:52:40,240 --> 00:52:44,480
were doing every Sunday instead.
And there was one time where he

904
00:52:44,480 --> 00:52:47,440
came over and we were reading
some, we were reading

905
00:52:48,880 --> 00:52:51,760
somebody's.
A vision by patriarch Johani

906
00:52:51,760 --> 00:52:53,600
Wolfgram.
Yes, I couldn't remember what

907
00:52:53,600 --> 00:52:58,360
his name was nice.
So we were we were reading this

908
00:52:58,360 --> 00:53:02,520
guy's experience and the spirit
was really strong during that

909
00:53:02,520 --> 00:53:06,040
point.
And you know, some of us were

910
00:53:06,040 --> 00:53:07,680
kind of getting emotional and
stuff.

911
00:53:07,960 --> 00:53:11,400
And then all of a sudden, like
the just in my head, the I like,

912
00:53:11,400 --> 00:53:15,040
I looked over at Ellior and the
Lord was just like, you're going

913
00:53:15,040 --> 00:53:17,200
to marry that guy, take good
care of him.

914
00:53:17,560 --> 00:53:23,320
And it just like hit me, left
the room for a few minutes.

915
00:53:23,320 --> 00:53:26,560
I just like it.
It just all just hit me like all

916
00:53:26,560 --> 00:53:29,240
the emotions and everything.
And I was like, whoa, that was,

917
00:53:29,600 --> 00:53:33,280
I was not a like I, I had
already felt like we were going

918
00:53:33,280 --> 00:53:36,840
the right direction dating each
other, but I wasn't expecting

919
00:53:36,840 --> 00:53:40,840
the Lord to just like solidify
that and be like, this is the

920
00:53:40,840 --> 00:53:42,400
guy.
You know what I mean?

921
00:53:42,840 --> 00:53:43,680
Sure.
No, I get it.

922
00:53:44,520 --> 00:53:48,480
And so before, before proposal
or anything like that, we had

923
00:53:48,480 --> 00:53:55,880
already been talking about how
like how we both felt like we

924
00:53:55,880 --> 00:53:57,720
were supposed to get married and
stuff like that.

925
00:53:58,360 --> 00:54:02,040
Gotcha so and he mentioned that
too that he would go over to

926
00:54:02,040 --> 00:54:05,560
your your your parents place for
for your family sacrament

927
00:54:05,560 --> 00:54:09,400
meetings.
What was your parents reaction

928
00:54:09,400 --> 00:54:14,640
when you brought him over?
So when he came over for the

929
00:54:14,640 --> 00:54:19,200
first time, it was kind of like
the, I mean, I'd say it's kind

930
00:54:19,200 --> 00:54:22,720
of typical for like the dad to
try and ask some questions and

931
00:54:22,720 --> 00:54:29,080
stuff like that, right?
But he and my dad like hit it

932
00:54:29,080 --> 00:54:30,800
off right away.
OK.

933
00:54:31,440 --> 00:54:33,000
And that was a huge comfort to
me.

934
00:54:33,000 --> 00:54:37,520
Like I, I like just total like
was able to relax, you know,

935
00:54:38,920 --> 00:54:41,440
like they had a lot of the, they
liked a lot of the same things

936
00:54:41,440 --> 00:54:45,160
and whatever.
And there were several times

937
00:54:45,160 --> 00:54:48,040
where he was at our house while
we were dating and he and my dad

938
00:54:48,040 --> 00:54:50,480
would just talk for like hours.
Till like two or three.

939
00:54:50,480 --> 00:54:53,560
In the morning.
Well, let me say this, I forgot

940
00:54:53,560 --> 00:54:56,280
to mention this before.
Not only did we jive politically

941
00:54:56,280 --> 00:54:59,640
and musically, but I mentioned
he was the one who was

942
00:54:59,640 --> 00:55:02,560
introducing me to fund to
fundamentalist sources, even

943
00:55:02,560 --> 00:55:06,120
though he himself was not an
official fundamentalist, you

944
00:55:06,120 --> 00:55:08,320
know, but he had he had a
testimony of those things.

945
00:55:08,320 --> 00:55:10,880
Well, I was really open to
receiving those.

946
00:55:10,880 --> 00:55:12,480
I I felt them like we talked
about.

947
00:55:12,480 --> 00:55:14,560
So me and him hit it off even
more.

948
00:55:14,960 --> 00:55:19,360
So we were also sort of growing
in our dedication to Mormon

949
00:55:19,360 --> 00:55:23,160
fundamentalism.
This the seed was being planted

950
00:55:23,160 --> 00:55:24,720
at least at that point.
Gotcha.

951
00:55:25,360 --> 00:55:26,680
OK.
All right.

952
00:55:26,720 --> 00:55:30,480
So Eleor told me that you guys
went ahead.

953
00:55:30,480 --> 00:55:35,840
You got sealed in the Rexburg
Temple first year marriage is

954
00:55:35,840 --> 00:55:38,480
great now.
But Eleor says that this is

955
00:55:38,480 --> 00:55:42,640
about the time he starts really
diving into fundamentalism a

956
00:55:42,640 --> 00:55:45,080
little bit, right?
Starting to buy the books,

957
00:55:45,080 --> 00:55:47,880
right?
Like, you know that that's

958
00:55:47,960 --> 00:55:50,800
that's the sign when you know
things are going to go bad.

959
00:55:50,960 --> 00:55:55,280
I shouldn't say go bad, go good
because you're like, you're like

960
00:55:55,280 --> 00:56:01,640
starting to buy the what I like
to call the, the, the books that

961
00:56:01,640 --> 00:56:03,920
you should only be buying in the
back alley from a guy in a

962
00:56:03,920 --> 00:56:06,960
trench belt, right?
Like you don't want your Bishop

963
00:56:06,960 --> 00:56:09,880
ever seeing that right?
You're you're you're smuggling

964
00:56:09,880 --> 00:56:17,200
the books home.
So Haley, at at what point and

965
00:56:17,200 --> 00:56:19,040
and you 2 can can answer this
together.

966
00:56:19,040 --> 00:56:24,920
At what point does Eleor like?
Well, let me, let me ask it this

967
00:56:24,920 --> 00:56:27,040
way first.
Actually, Eleor, at what point

968
00:56:27,160 --> 00:56:31,440
are you like, oh crap, I'm going
to have to talk to my wife about

969
00:56:31,440 --> 00:56:33,760
this, right?
Because look, it's one thing for

970
00:56:33,760 --> 00:56:36,680
the dudes to be like, I think
this fundamentalist thing is

971
00:56:36,680 --> 00:56:39,120
really going to, you know, be
great, right?

972
00:56:39,120 --> 00:56:42,200
It's another thing to have to
break that to your spouse, to

973
00:56:42,200 --> 00:56:44,720
your wife.
So at what point are you, like,

974
00:56:44,720 --> 00:56:47,640
looking into this?
Like, oh, I think this has got

975
00:56:47,640 --> 00:56:50,000
some validity and I think I'm
going to have to talk to my wife

976
00:56:50,000 --> 00:56:53,200
about this.
So I'll just say this right

977
00:56:53,200 --> 00:56:55,080
away.
She was already comfortable with

978
00:56:55,840 --> 00:57:01,440
with the doctrine of plural
marriage and and we I explained

979
00:57:01,440 --> 00:57:03,680
Adam God to her and she was
totally open to it.

980
00:57:04,000 --> 00:57:11,480
So the oh crap moment actually
is 3 years later and we can I

981
00:57:11,480 --> 00:57:12,680
don't know where do you want to
go from there?

982
00:57:12,680 --> 00:57:13,760
Do you want to know about that?
Let's.

983
00:57:13,920 --> 00:57:16,880
Let's let's stop right there.
Let's because because I want

984
00:57:16,880 --> 00:57:20,440
pivot now to Haley on this.
OK, So by the time you marry

985
00:57:20,640 --> 00:57:23,960
Eleor, it sounds like you're
you're pretty much at peace with

986
00:57:23,960 --> 00:57:29,040
the idea of plural marriage.
No, it took a little bit longer

987
00:57:29,040 --> 00:57:34,800
than that.
I think because back when we

988
00:57:36,960 --> 00:57:39,880
before we got married or maybe
even a little bit after we got

989
00:57:39,880 --> 00:57:45,880
married, I still felt like I was
still pushing against it every

990
00:57:45,880 --> 00:57:48,400
time it got brought up.
But the only time it ever really

991
00:57:48,400 --> 00:57:52,600
got brought up was like by my
dad or something like that, you

992
00:57:52,600 --> 00:57:57,800
know, And there wasn't a whole,
there wasn't a whole lot of talk

993
00:57:57,800 --> 00:58:05,760
into like, how do I say it?
Like whenever it was brought up,

994
00:58:05,760 --> 00:58:09,040
it was really just like the
doctrine and that people were

995
00:58:09,040 --> 00:58:11,520
told to live it.
There wasn't really any like

996
00:58:11,520 --> 00:58:14,480
talking about people's
experiences with it or anything

997
00:58:14,480 --> 00:58:18,360
like that, especially like the
wives and stuff like that.

998
00:58:18,640 --> 00:58:26,840
And so it was hard for me to
really, but obviously you don't

999
00:58:26,840 --> 00:58:31,120
need to know like, like the
doctrine itself is what you gain

1000
00:58:31,120 --> 00:58:35,840
a testimony of.
But I will say it's, it's a

1001
00:58:35,840 --> 00:58:38,720
little bit harder to know what
you would be getting into if you

1002
00:58:38,720 --> 00:58:41,280
ever did it.
If you haven't heard anybody's

1003
00:58:41,280 --> 00:58:42,760
experiences, you know what I
mean.

1004
00:58:42,960 --> 00:58:44,080
Sure, sure.
No.

1005
00:58:44,360 --> 00:58:48,280
So, so really the conversation
around plural marriage and I'm

1006
00:58:48,280 --> 00:58:52,400
guessing other old school
doctrine like that is it's more

1007
00:58:52,400 --> 00:58:55,560
academic, right?
It's like this is what was

1008
00:58:55,560 --> 00:58:57,240
taught and practiced in the old
days.

1009
00:58:57,240 --> 00:59:01,360
We don't do it now.
And and would that be a correct

1010
00:59:01,360 --> 00:59:03,880
way of framing that those kind
of conversations?

1011
00:59:05,760 --> 00:59:11,160
So whenever that it's still
like, yes, to me, it was kind of

1012
00:59:11,160 --> 00:59:15,040
like a the Lord commanded it
back then, but I didn't really

1013
00:59:15,040 --> 00:59:16,760
understand a lot of the history
behind it.

1014
00:59:16,760 --> 00:59:21,200
And so I didn't understand that
it was a little more complicated

1015
00:59:21,200 --> 00:59:23,840
than just, we used to practice
it and now we don't, you know

1016
00:59:23,840 --> 00:59:31,360
what I mean?
And so, but, but knowing that it

1017
00:59:31,360 --> 00:59:33,880
was something that the Lord had
commanded them to do, even with

1018
00:59:33,880 --> 00:59:38,440
my basic understanding, I
understood that it would be

1019
00:59:38,440 --> 00:59:42,280
important to try and always be
open to it if the Lord ever

1020
00:59:42,280 --> 00:59:44,520
commanded us to do it, You know
what I mean?

1021
00:59:45,880 --> 00:59:48,520
And so that was always in the
back of my mind is something

1022
00:59:48,520 --> 00:59:55,040
that I should try and develop a
testimony of and be open to so

1023
00:59:55,040 --> 00:59:57,200
that that kind of thing wouldn't
be something I'd have to be like

1024
00:59:57,520 --> 00:59:59,920
struggling with in the moment,
you know what I mean?

1025
01:00:02,480 --> 01:00:08,200
But throughout our marriage, as
we've learned more about the

1026
01:00:08,200 --> 01:00:10,880
history behind that and like
read some experiences and

1027
01:00:10,880 --> 01:00:14,680
everything, the Spirit has been
able to help me.

1028
01:00:15,720 --> 01:00:23,600
Like gain a testimony of it and
to really just like work past a

1029
01:00:23,600 --> 01:00:25,920
lot of the worries that I had
had about it.

1030
01:00:28,720 --> 01:00:31,360
And that's really been a
blessing.

1031
01:00:32,160 --> 01:00:35,960
I think.
I think it was, it was really a

1032
01:00:35,960 --> 01:00:41,240
blessing from the Lord for the
Lord to just kind of be like,

1033
01:00:41,240 --> 01:00:48,080
hey, just keep thinking about
it, you know, we'll just work on

1034
01:00:48,080 --> 01:00:48,880
it.
You know what I mean?

1035
01:00:48,880 --> 01:00:51,320
It wasn't like you need to
figure this out right now, you

1036
01:00:51,720 --> 01:00:52,800
know what I mean?
Yep.

1037
01:00:52,840 --> 01:00:54,640
Nope, I know exactly what you
mean.

1038
01:00:56,440 --> 01:00:57,520
Oh, sorry, go ahead.
No.

1039
01:00:57,840 --> 01:01:00,840
No, no, go ahead.
When he brings up Adam God,

1040
01:01:00,840 --> 01:01:07,760
what's your first thoughts?
So I don't know if that one had

1041
01:01:07,760 --> 01:01:09,440
been brought up when I was
growing up.

1042
01:01:09,440 --> 01:01:15,000
I, it may have, if it was, it
wasn't one that had stuck out to

1043
01:01:15,000 --> 01:01:20,480
me.
And so having just started going

1044
01:01:20,480 --> 01:01:24,640
to the temple a couple of years
prior to Eleor bringing that one

1045
01:01:24,640 --> 01:01:31,800
up, that was a little bit
strange for me because of, you

1046
01:01:31,800 --> 01:01:34,920
know, what they talk about in
the mainstream temple and stuff.

1047
01:01:34,960 --> 01:01:38,920
You had actually it, it had only
been like four or five months.

1048
01:01:38,960 --> 01:01:40,600
Oh, had it really you would have
brought it up that early?

1049
01:01:40,600 --> 01:01:42,640
No, no, no.
Since he went to the temple.

1050
01:01:42,640 --> 01:01:44,160
Since he had started going to
the temple.

1051
01:01:46,200 --> 01:01:47,480
Let's start going to the temple
right now.

1052
01:01:47,600 --> 01:01:50,840
Got married. 2020 And then I
found Adam, God early 2021.

1053
01:01:51,200 --> 01:01:52,040
Oh, you did?
Yeah.

1054
01:01:52,320 --> 01:01:55,600
OK, well, then I misremembered.
I guess it was a lot earlier,

1055
01:01:56,600 --> 01:01:59,000
but I will say I don't think I
had really.

1056
01:01:59,360 --> 01:02:02,960
I didn't start reading some
things about Adam God until a

1057
01:02:02,960 --> 01:02:07,040
few years later.
I had talked to her a lot about

1058
01:02:07,040 --> 01:02:08,000
it.
Yeah, we had.

1059
01:02:08,120 --> 01:02:11,000
We had a lot of a lot of
doctrines and everything.

1060
01:02:11,000 --> 01:02:16,000
Like we have a lot of long
conversations about everything.

1061
01:02:17,120 --> 01:02:20,040
I'm the one who has time to read
and listen because usually my

1062
01:02:20,040 --> 01:02:23,040
jobs let me listen to podcasts
and stuff, so I'm the.

1063
01:02:23,040 --> 01:02:24,880
One how raising kids doesn't let
you do that.

1064
01:02:25,120 --> 01:02:28,600
Exactly, I'm about.
Not listening to the kids

1065
01:02:28,600 --> 01:02:29,960
usually.
Like, yeah.

1066
01:02:30,960 --> 01:02:34,080
I have to make sure my ears are
open because if they're not, I

1067
01:02:34,080 --> 01:02:37,400
turn around and there's like
even when my ears are open, I

1068
01:02:37,400 --> 01:02:39,440
turn around.
There's like a kid on the table.

1069
01:02:39,440 --> 01:02:39,880
You know what?
I.

1070
01:02:39,880 --> 01:02:40,720
Mean.
Oh yeah.

1071
01:02:41,200 --> 01:02:41,520
Oh.
Yeah.

1072
01:02:42,240 --> 01:02:46,440
So we make up for that by having
a lot of conversations about the

1073
01:02:46,440 --> 01:02:50,640
things that he's reading, and
I'm generally able to absorb a

1074
01:02:50,640 --> 01:02:52,880
lot of things through that.
Gotcha.

1075
01:02:53,360 --> 01:02:55,880
So now correct me if I'm wrong
here.

1076
01:02:55,880 --> 01:03:00,360
It doesn't ever sound like LER
does what sometimes us dudes are

1077
01:03:00,360 --> 01:03:04,320
really guilty of when we first
discover these things, which is

1078
01:03:04,560 --> 01:03:06,800
we're going to give you
everything we've been reading

1079
01:03:06,800 --> 01:03:11,320
and listening to for the last
nine months in about a 10 minute

1080
01:03:11,320 --> 01:03:14,080
blurb.
So I, I, I get the feeling that

1081
01:03:14,080 --> 01:03:20,040
that's not going on, right?
No, I'll say that was there are

1082
01:03:20,040 --> 01:03:23,960
many hours and hours and hours
of conversations.

1083
01:03:24,320 --> 01:03:27,600
Instead of instead of like 110
minute blurb after nine months,

1084
01:03:27,600 --> 01:03:30,920
it was like a barrage of 10
minute blurbs every single day.

1085
01:03:31,960 --> 01:03:37,520
Well, you know, we laugh about
that, but and and and this this

1086
01:03:37,520 --> 01:03:40,320
part actually, you know, gets
gets my blood pump a little bit

1087
01:03:40,320 --> 01:03:42,320
because you guys did it right,
right.

1088
01:03:42,800 --> 01:03:46,840
So many times I get calls from
guys who are like, oh, crap, I

1089
01:03:46,840 --> 01:03:48,240
think I'm a fundamentalist at
heart.

1090
01:03:48,240 --> 01:03:49,600
What do I do now?
Right.

1091
01:03:49,600 --> 01:03:55,160
And I'm like, first breathe to
do not unload all of this on

1092
01:03:55,160 --> 01:03:56,400
your wife.
You're going to want to break

1093
01:03:56,400 --> 01:03:59,800
this real easy, bro, Don't,
don't.

1094
01:03:59,800 --> 01:04:03,120
And yeah, so, so you guys did it
right, Right.

1095
01:04:03,120 --> 01:04:04,640
You worked through this
together.

1096
01:04:04,640 --> 01:04:07,960
And I think that was, that was
the thing that I think, you

1097
01:04:07,960 --> 01:04:10,240
know, one of the things I think
people should take away who are

1098
01:04:10,240 --> 01:04:13,480
listening, who are thinking
about making this jump is work

1099
01:04:13,480 --> 01:04:16,280
this out together.
This should be a, a thing you

1100
01:04:16,280 --> 01:04:18,680
work out with your, with your
spouse, right?

1101
01:04:19,560 --> 01:04:22,680
So often.
And, and certainly I'm guilty of

1102
01:04:22,680 --> 01:04:26,040
this from time to time, not so
much with doctrine anymore, but

1103
01:04:26,040 --> 01:04:28,840
other things.
And I got to constantly check

1104
01:04:28,840 --> 01:04:32,400
myself on it is OK, I'm not
going to bring this up until I

1105
01:04:32,400 --> 01:04:35,360
have a solution, right?
That's just not what I'm going

1106
01:04:35,360 --> 01:04:37,320
to do.
I'll present it, but I got to

1107
01:04:37,320 --> 01:04:39,160
have a solution in place first,
right?

1108
01:04:39,720 --> 01:04:43,280
When in all actuality, they
should be counseling more,

1109
01:04:43,360 --> 01:04:44,600
right?
And that's what you guys are

1110
01:04:44,600 --> 01:04:45,880
doing.
You're kind of counseling with

1111
01:04:45,880 --> 01:04:47,320
one another.
You're talking this stuff

1112
01:04:47,320 --> 01:04:50,560
through.
So it sounds like it's kind of

1113
01:04:50,560 --> 01:04:52,200
building.
Is that a fair assessment that

1114
01:04:52,200 --> 01:04:55,560
that this stuff is starting to
stack on top of each other, so

1115
01:04:55,560 --> 01:04:57,480
to speak, all these doctrines
and that sort of stuff?

1116
01:04:57,840 --> 01:05:01,040
100 percent, 100%.
Let's move to the oh crap

1117
01:05:01,040 --> 01:05:03,440
moment.
I think, I think, I think we're

1118
01:05:03,440 --> 01:05:07,680
there.
So so this has been building for

1119
01:05:07,680 --> 01:05:09,480
a while.
What is that moment and what

1120
01:05:09,480 --> 01:05:12,880
happens?
OK, so not only has that been

1121
01:05:12,880 --> 01:05:19,280
building, but I had also
developed a very strong

1122
01:05:19,280 --> 01:05:23,200
testimony of the doctrine of
Christ throughout those three

1123
01:05:23,200 --> 01:05:28,640
years up to the Yokrat moment.
And I had invested like dozens

1124
01:05:28,640 --> 01:05:32,120
and dozens of hours into
studying the Hebraic roots of

1125
01:05:32,120 --> 01:05:35,200
our faith, like sort of the
Hebraic worldview, because

1126
01:05:35,200 --> 01:05:37,880
Scripture is written through the
Hebrew lens.

1127
01:05:38,200 --> 01:05:42,920
So just just saying that.
So I have this sort of, we have

1128
01:05:43,960 --> 01:05:48,280
fundamentalist doctrines and
doctrine of Christ and Hebraic

1129
01:05:48,280 --> 01:05:52,600
worldview have been percolating
in our discourse and in our

1130
01:05:53,240 --> 01:05:54,680
spiritual pursuit, you could
say.

1131
01:05:54,680 --> 01:05:59,200
But anyway, so oh crap moment, I
started a YouTube channel called

1132
01:05:59,240 --> 01:06:02,560
Hebraic Restoration, which I
changed to Doctrine of Christ

1133
01:06:03,840 --> 01:06:08,320
and it got noticed by my our
mutual friend Joshua Erickson,

1134
01:06:08,320 --> 01:06:10,480
who's been on your podcast
several times.

1135
01:06:12,720 --> 01:06:15,240
Shout out to Josh, one of the
best people I know, one of the

1136
01:06:15,240 --> 01:06:17,960
best people in Mormonism and him
and his wives.

1137
01:06:19,840 --> 01:06:24,400
So I I'm invited to speak at the
2024 Restoration Torah

1138
01:06:24,400 --> 01:06:29,280
conference and that is when I
meet tons of fundamentalists for

1139
01:06:29,520 --> 01:06:33,280
the first time.
I I loved the Council of 50 Corn

1140
01:06:33,280 --> 01:06:36,120
of the anointed Adam God
teachings, plural marriage, but

1141
01:06:36,120 --> 01:06:39,840
I've never actually met
fundamentalists who were, you

1142
01:06:39,840 --> 01:06:42,840
know, geeks about the same thing
who believed in the same thing.

1143
01:06:43,360 --> 01:06:48,280
So I met a lot of them and I I
had dinner with a friend that

1144
01:06:48,280 --> 01:06:52,920
evening after speaking.
I thought he was a mainstream

1145
01:06:52,920 --> 01:06:55,400
church member, but it turns out
he was secretly A

1146
01:06:55,400 --> 01:06:57,960
fundamentalist, so practicing
fundamentalist too.

1147
01:06:58,200 --> 01:07:01,160
With a crazy coincidence.
I go to speak at the Restoration

1148
01:07:01,160 --> 01:07:04,560
Torah conference and then I meet
with my friend, completely

1149
01:07:04,560 --> 01:07:07,880
unrelated, and he ends up being
a fundamentalist.

1150
01:07:07,880 --> 01:07:11,160
So.
So he gave me all the literature

1151
01:07:11,160 --> 01:07:15,360
that day and I, I was what I
what I mean?

1152
01:07:15,720 --> 01:07:16,960
What's that?
What you mean by all the

1153
01:07:16,960 --> 01:07:20,240
literature?
OK, so I like.

1154
01:07:20,240 --> 01:07:22,800
Are you getting the complete
works of Ogden Kraut?

1155
01:07:22,800 --> 01:07:26,440
I mean, what are you what?
Are you getting oh, oh, I'm, I'm

1156
01:07:26,440 --> 01:07:27,960
so sorry.
I am so jumpy.

1157
01:07:27,960 --> 01:07:32,120
I forgot to mention two years.
So so during that three-year

1158
01:07:32,120 --> 01:07:37,440
journey between 2021 to the oh
crap moment in 2024, I had also

1159
01:07:37,440 --> 01:07:39,960
discovered Ogden Kraut and I
really dug his stuff.

1160
01:07:40,360 --> 01:07:43,200
So I, I already liked Ogden
Kraut by then, although again, I

1161
01:07:43,200 --> 01:07:46,840
was not a fundamentalist yet.
So anyway, here's what changes

1162
01:07:46,840 --> 01:07:49,240
everything.
I already had a testimony and

1163
01:07:49,240 --> 01:07:52,760
fundamentalist doctrine.
I already knew that the church,

1164
01:07:52,760 --> 01:07:55,000
the priesthood, and the Kingdom
of God were three separate

1165
01:07:55,000 --> 01:07:57,480
entities, although I didn't
understand the implications of

1166
01:07:57,480 --> 01:07:59,880
that quite yet.
What was I missing?

1167
01:08:00,240 --> 01:08:04,080
Something that the church does
not teach early 20th century

1168
01:08:04,080 --> 01:08:08,960
Mormon history to include the
reforms of Hebrew Jay Grant.

1169
01:08:09,680 --> 01:08:14,920
So he gave me the literature.
I saw Hebrew J Grant did almost

1170
01:08:14,920 --> 01:08:19,000
everything that the 1st 6
presidents of the church said

1171
01:08:19,160 --> 01:08:21,439
would cause the church to lose
the priesthood.

1172
01:08:21,840 --> 01:08:25,319
So you have Joseph Joseph
through Joseph F Smith.

1173
01:08:25,319 --> 01:08:29,760
Those 6 presidents say if the
church does X they will lose the

1174
01:08:29,760 --> 01:08:32,800
priesthood or or something along
those lines.

1175
01:08:33,160 --> 01:08:37,359
Then I find out Hebrew J Grant
almost single handedly reform

1176
01:08:37,359 --> 01:08:40,040
the church in such a way that
all of those were accomplished.

1177
01:08:40,359 --> 01:08:44,720
And so at that moment everything
fell into place and I went into

1178
01:08:44,720 --> 01:08:48,760
a crisis.
It was a total My paradigm was

1179
01:08:48,760 --> 01:08:52,960
shattered.
So yes, no, that's, that's going

1180
01:08:52,960 --> 01:08:56,840
to happen.
Unfortunately, I think I don't

1181
01:08:56,840 --> 01:08:59,720
think there's ever such a thing
as easing into it, right?

1182
01:08:59,720 --> 01:09:03,800
I think you guys had about maybe
the easiest path towards it I

1183
01:09:03,800 --> 01:09:06,600
think I've ever heard.
But by and large, there's going

1184
01:09:06,600 --> 01:09:10,680
to come a point at which it all
feels like it's coming down,

1185
01:09:10,920 --> 01:09:15,040
right?
You get red pilled in in a big

1186
01:09:15,040 --> 01:09:18,359
way.
So, so you, you start really

1187
01:09:18,359 --> 01:09:22,160
reading the literature, right?
You start, you start being able

1188
01:09:22,160 --> 01:09:27,720
to compare and contrast, and
that can be a lonely feeling.

1189
01:09:28,200 --> 01:09:31,040
Right.
That can be a lonely feeling.

1190
01:09:31,359 --> 01:09:33,560
So do you tell Haley about this
right away?

1191
01:09:34,560 --> 01:09:39,479
Yeah, like the next day I was
like, Haley.

1192
01:09:39,680 --> 01:09:41,840
I did the thing where you just
exploded, didn't you?

1193
01:09:42,319 --> 01:09:44,479
I did.
But yeah, fortunately,

1194
01:09:44,560 --> 01:09:47,720
fortunately, it had only been
like a day's worth of material

1195
01:09:47,720 --> 01:09:53,760
that I read just OK.
But but I was like, Haley, I

1196
01:09:53,760 --> 01:09:56,960
just found out that, you know,
there these reforms and all

1197
01:09:56,960 --> 01:09:57,960
that.
I was just telling her

1198
01:09:57,960 --> 01:10:00,600
everything.
And I was telling her like, I

1199
01:10:00,600 --> 01:10:01,960
don't know what to think
anymore.

1200
01:10:01,960 --> 01:10:05,400
I don't know what to believe.
Anymore Haley was was was that

1201
01:10:05,400 --> 01:10:10,920
scary for you, Haley I mean,
'cause I'm guessing you're both

1202
01:10:10,920 --> 01:10:13,000
very active in the church right
now we're.

1203
01:10:13,000 --> 01:10:15,080
Very active.
We were active the whole time.

1204
01:10:15,760 --> 01:10:20,360
From 2020 to 2024 we were.
Yeah, at church every week.

1205
01:10:20,440 --> 01:10:24,120
Exactly.
So, yeah, and I think both of us

1206
01:10:24,120 --> 01:10:26,720
also have like callings and
everything like that too.

1207
01:10:27,840 --> 01:10:31,440
And so, and obviously we we've
had all these things we've

1208
01:10:31,440 --> 01:10:34,040
already talked about that were
slowly happening, you know,

1209
01:10:34,240 --> 01:10:36,840
being introduced, this being
being introduced to that.

1210
01:10:37,080 --> 01:10:40,920
But all of a sudden it something
clicked and the stones started

1211
01:10:40,920 --> 01:10:43,560
rolling down the mountain and it
got faster and faster.

1212
01:10:43,880 --> 01:10:47,520
And we were just like, oh,
something is changing.

1213
01:10:47,760 --> 01:10:49,320
Something is happening right
now.

1214
01:10:49,960 --> 01:10:53,200
I don't know, like we can't
really stop this, you know, all

1215
01:10:53,200 --> 01:10:56,720
of a sudden going to church on
Sunday changed a little bit.

1216
01:10:56,880 --> 01:10:59,400
It it felt a little bit
different, you know what I mean?

1217
01:11:02,040 --> 01:11:05,800
And it felt, and even though our
even though people didn't really

1218
01:11:05,800 --> 01:11:09,800
know all of this that was
happening, all of a sudden, you

1219
01:11:09,800 --> 01:11:13,600
know, you feel ostracized.
Or maybe that's not the word I'm

1220
01:11:13,600 --> 01:11:16,760
looking for.
Like I'll like P Nope, nobody

1221
01:11:16,760 --> 01:11:18,760
really knows what's going on.
But all of a sudden you feel

1222
01:11:18,760 --> 01:11:21,680
like you don't quite fit in.
You feel alienated.

1223
01:11:21,680 --> 01:11:23,160
Alienated the best.
Word no.

1224
01:11:23,600 --> 01:11:26,400
And, and let's be clear, it's
not the people who are doing

1225
01:11:26,400 --> 01:11:30,960
that right?
That is just, and I've said this

1226
01:11:30,960 --> 01:11:33,200
cause 'cause I did something
similar, right?

1227
01:11:33,200 --> 01:11:38,040
I, I was an independent
fundamentalist on my own, I mean

1228
01:11:38,040 --> 01:11:43,920
completely on my own for about
5-6, maybe 7 years, right.

1229
01:11:44,320 --> 01:11:49,120
And, and I remember when that,
when that first plural marriage

1230
01:11:49,120 --> 01:11:51,320
blew up, I was like, I'm never
doing this crap again.

1231
01:11:51,320 --> 01:11:54,360
You know, like even a dog learns
once he's been kicked enough

1232
01:11:54,360 --> 01:11:55,160
times.
Never.

1233
01:11:56,320 --> 01:11:59,840
And I thought I would just, I
would just go back to the LDS

1234
01:11:59,840 --> 01:12:01,440
church.
I'll put everything in the back

1235
01:12:01,440 --> 01:12:02,920
of my mind.
I'll shelve it.

1236
01:12:03,440 --> 01:12:05,560
Whatever something I needed for
my growth.

1237
01:12:05,560 --> 01:12:08,440
I'd use some more mental
gymnastics like I'd have been

1238
01:12:08,440 --> 01:12:09,680
good.
I'd have been like a gold

1239
01:12:09,680 --> 01:12:12,680
medalist at mental gymnastics.
I was so good.

1240
01:12:13,080 --> 01:12:15,320
Anyway, I'll just shove it back
there.

1241
01:12:15,320 --> 01:12:19,080
I'll forget all about it.
The problem is, and and I've

1242
01:12:19,080 --> 01:12:21,760
always said when it comes to
accepting the fullness of the

1243
01:12:21,760 --> 01:12:25,720
gospel, it's a lot like the
choice to eat, partake of the

1244
01:12:25,720 --> 01:12:27,840
fruit.
There is no going back.

1245
01:12:28,360 --> 01:12:29,440
No.
There isn't.

1246
01:12:29,440 --> 01:12:33,040
Once your eyes are opened, there
is no going back.

1247
01:12:33,360 --> 01:12:36,080
You can't.
Not because the people are bad

1248
01:12:36,280 --> 01:12:40,360
or the LDS Church is bad
institutionally, right?

1249
01:12:40,360 --> 01:12:45,360
And I say bad in terms of of of,
you know, really super evil

1250
01:12:45,360 --> 01:12:50,720
stuff.
Yeah, but it's just different

1251
01:12:50,720 --> 01:12:54,520
because you will hear people say
things that you know are

1252
01:12:54,520 --> 01:12:58,440
patently false 100%.
Now they're not lying on the

1253
01:12:58,440 --> 01:13:00,680
stand.
They don't understand that what

1254
01:13:00,680 --> 01:13:02,880
they're saying isn't true
because they've been conditioned

1255
01:13:02,880 --> 01:13:06,280
with the same things, right?
And there's this idea.

1256
01:13:06,280 --> 01:13:09,360
Well, if he's a Bishop, he's got
to be a scriptorian.

1257
01:13:10,160 --> 01:13:12,880
All he's got to do is run that
handbook, right?

1258
01:13:12,880 --> 01:13:14,720
That's, that's exactly, that's
what he's got to do.

1259
01:13:15,080 --> 01:13:18,720
Stake presidents the same way.
70s can be the same way, right?

1260
01:13:19,040 --> 01:13:22,400
I mean, we, we have this idea
that the higher you go in the

1261
01:13:22,400 --> 01:13:26,800
LDS Church, the, the more of a
theologian or scriptorian you

1262
01:13:26,800 --> 01:13:28,200
are.
And it's just not the truth,

1263
01:13:28,200 --> 01:13:30,760
right?
The, the church is about

1264
01:13:30,760 --> 01:13:33,800
administration, right?
And so if you can work that

1265
01:13:33,800 --> 01:13:34,840
handbook, you can get through
it.

1266
01:13:35,240 --> 01:13:37,800
But back to your point, it
changes.

1267
01:13:37,880 --> 01:13:46,440
Everything changes once you know
Haley at at this point, Haley

1268
01:13:46,440 --> 01:13:50,400
and and and Ellie are here at
this point, what's this doing to

1269
01:13:50,400 --> 01:13:53,960
your marriage?
What what happens to your

1270
01:13:53,960 --> 01:13:57,600
dynamic?
We, we're together, we're

1271
01:13:57,600 --> 01:13:59,760
strong.
We're, we're suffering together.

1272
01:13:59,960 --> 01:14:00,720
Am I?
Am I right?

1273
01:14:01,000 --> 01:14:06,000
Yeah, no, absolutely.
Because if anything, and he at

1274
01:14:06,120 --> 01:14:10,640
at this point in time, we were
blessed with the fact that he

1275
01:14:10,640 --> 01:14:15,640
was able to be at home for work.
And so we were like, like while

1276
01:14:15,640 --> 01:14:18,200
he's working and I'm like
walking around the house doing

1277
01:14:18,200 --> 01:14:20,760
my work, you know what I mean?
Like with the kids and

1278
01:14:20,760 --> 01:14:24,480
everything, we were like having
multiple conversations a day.

1279
01:14:25,520 --> 01:14:29,280
And you know, sometimes one of
us or both of us were having a

1280
01:14:29,280 --> 01:14:33,360
really hard time with something,
but we just had, we had so many

1281
01:14:33,360 --> 01:14:37,320
conversations just talking
through it, trying to figure

1282
01:14:37,320 --> 01:14:40,520
things out.
We started to really put an

1283
01:14:40,520 --> 01:14:43,320
emphasis on praying about the
things that we were learning

1284
01:14:43,320 --> 01:14:46,200
about and decisions that were
coming up.

1285
01:14:48,040 --> 01:14:51,600
And the whole time, even when
the Lord wasn't giving us like

1286
01:14:51,600 --> 01:14:55,600
an answer on what we were
supposed to do, there was so

1287
01:14:55,600 --> 01:15:00,840
much peace and the Spirit.
And peace.

1288
01:15:01,000 --> 01:15:04,600
And we received, I at least
received several dreams from the

1289
01:15:04,600 --> 01:15:07,960
Lord about this.
So that was very comforting and

1290
01:15:07,960 --> 01:15:10,680
reassuring.
I want to find out what those

1291
01:15:10,680 --> 01:15:12,200
dreams are if you if it's not
too.

1292
01:15:12,200 --> 01:15:13,640
Personal.
Yeah, I would love to.

1293
01:15:14,080 --> 01:15:17,080
OK, right now we'll get to that
in a second.

1294
01:15:17,120 --> 01:15:19,200
I want to, I want to make an
observation here.

1295
01:15:20,120 --> 01:15:21,560
And again, you guys did it
right.

1296
01:15:22,320 --> 01:15:26,320
So often what happens in these
in these convert in these

1297
01:15:26,320 --> 01:15:30,520
situations is, is that one
spouse will lose faith in

1298
01:15:30,520 --> 01:15:34,840
another, right?
And so they'll be this I like,

1299
01:15:35,520 --> 01:15:38,200
well, I can't trust him or I
can't trust her 'cause they're

1300
01:15:38,200 --> 01:15:41,360
off the rails, right?
Prostate, yeah.

1301
01:15:41,600 --> 01:15:46,640
Prostate, yeah.
What prevents that from

1302
01:15:46,640 --> 01:15:53,400
happening to you guys?
I'll say for me, I think the

1303
01:15:53,400 --> 01:15:59,200
Lord had already helped me just
based on growing up and having

1304
01:16:01,280 --> 01:16:05,040
my family learn lots of things
growing up, you know, having our

1305
01:16:06,000 --> 01:16:09,200
mindsets change a little bit,
having some paradigms shattered.

1306
01:16:10,320 --> 01:16:15,800
I think the Lord had helped
prepare me to not just totally

1307
01:16:15,800 --> 01:16:17,840
shoot it down right away.
OK, you know.

1308
01:16:17,920 --> 01:16:21,960
What I mean like like the?
Probably all the education your

1309
01:16:21,960 --> 01:16:24,520
dad gave you.
Yeah, like the, the Lord had

1310
01:16:24,520 --> 01:16:33,480
helped my heart to be soft so
that even when I had a hard time

1311
01:16:33,480 --> 01:16:36,760
with some of the things that I
was learning, I was willing to

1312
01:16:36,760 --> 01:16:40,640
work through it and I was
willing to talk with Ellie or,

1313
01:16:40,640 --> 01:16:44,000
and we'd look for answers and
pray about what the answer was

1314
01:16:45,720 --> 01:16:50,640
because like the whole time one
there was the spirit was just

1315
01:16:50,640 --> 01:16:53,360
like pouring out so much peace
upon us.

1316
01:16:53,840 --> 01:17:01,480
And, and also like just it made
lots of things were clicking.

1317
01:17:01,480 --> 01:17:05,440
Lots of things made sense.
I felt like a lot of the things

1318
01:17:05,440 --> 01:17:11,360
that a lot of the problems were
just kind of weird things from

1319
01:17:11,360 --> 01:17:14,080
growing up.
I was like, oh, like, I think I

1320
01:17:14,080 --> 01:17:18,080
think it makes sense now.
I think I understand why this

1321
01:17:18,520 --> 01:17:20,440
was everything.
You know what I mean?

1322
01:17:20,680 --> 01:17:22,720
Gotcha, gotcha.
All right.

1323
01:17:22,720 --> 01:17:26,480
So Eleor, you said you had a
couple of dreams along the way,

1324
01:17:27,000 --> 01:17:28,800
right?
That kind of that kind of help

1325
01:17:28,800 --> 01:17:30,880
you out and and let you know,
no, keep going.

1326
01:17:30,880 --> 01:17:32,600
You're you're doing good.
What?

1327
01:17:32,600 --> 01:17:40,680
What were those?
OK, so and I want to remind the

1328
01:17:40,680 --> 01:17:44,760
listener, I guess I had invested
a lot of time between 2021 and

1329
01:17:44,760 --> 01:17:49,800
2024 into learning the Hebraic
context of the the Hebraic

1330
01:17:49,800 --> 01:17:52,840
foundations of our faith.
So the Lord, in the Lord's

1331
01:17:52,840 --> 01:17:56,720
mercy, he gave me a dream that
totally spoke to that.

1332
01:17:58,680 --> 01:18:02,920
My family and I were walking in
a park, which was in the middle

1333
01:18:02,920 --> 01:18:09,160
of a city.
And we get through this grassy

1334
01:18:09,160 --> 01:18:10,560
park.
It's just kind of grass.

1335
01:18:10,560 --> 01:18:13,560
It's there's there's not
anything, not any structures or

1336
01:18:13,560 --> 01:18:15,520
anything in the park.
Well, we get to the end of the

1337
01:18:15,520 --> 01:18:19,240
park and there's a giant tree
and it's completely dead.

1338
01:18:19,480 --> 01:18:21,760
Completely dead.
And it's, this is like in the

1339
01:18:21,760 --> 01:18:24,160
dream, it's like summer.
The tree should not be dead, it

1340
01:18:24,160 --> 01:18:27,360
should be green, right?
So we kind of just look at it

1341
01:18:28,560 --> 01:18:30,640
and walk past it and walk out of
the park.

1342
01:18:30,920 --> 01:18:32,920
Well riders, we're about to
leave the park.

1343
01:18:33,320 --> 01:18:39,040
I hear a huge boom and I look
behind me in the dream and the,

1344
01:18:39,120 --> 01:18:42,840
the the tree had been blasted to
1,000,000 smithereens.

1345
01:18:44,000 --> 01:18:46,200
So here's what I know about
Hebrew symbology.

1346
01:18:46,200 --> 01:18:51,680
One, this dream has like 3 part
space, the city, the park, and

1347
01:18:51,680 --> 01:18:54,360
then the tree.
Well in Hebraic thought, the

1348
01:18:54,360 --> 01:18:58,000
tree represents the covenant
body as in Jacob 5.

1349
01:18:58,960 --> 01:19:02,880
So this tree is like blasted to
1,000,000 smithereens.

1350
01:19:03,640 --> 01:19:07,480
And I know that it represents
sort of the church or the

1351
01:19:07,480 --> 01:19:11,040
restoration.
The Lord, you know, gave me the

1352
01:19:11,040 --> 01:19:13,880
interpretation of this dream.
It like all was not well,

1353
01:19:13,880 --> 01:19:16,120
basically is what the dream was
communicating, you know.

1354
01:19:17,640 --> 01:19:24,000
And then I had another dream
where I was on a giant ship and

1355
01:19:24,080 --> 01:19:29,480
Jesus was the captain of the
ship and he asked me to get off

1356
01:19:29,480 --> 01:19:33,480
onto a little tiny boat with a
few, just a few people on it.

1357
01:19:34,320 --> 01:19:37,560
And he like I was really nervous
about it, but he he reassured me

1358
01:19:37,560 --> 01:19:40,040
it would be fine.
And so he he ushers me off the

1359
01:19:40,040 --> 01:19:42,920
ship onto the small boat and
then he gets in with me and we

1360
01:19:43,120 --> 01:19:46,400
kind of ride the current.
So we left the big ship and got

1361
01:19:46,400 --> 01:19:49,560
on a little boat.
So to me it was communicating.

1362
01:19:50,480 --> 01:19:53,000
Just follow where you know,
follow where I'm going to send

1363
01:19:53,000 --> 01:19:55,200
you.
Leave the leave what you

1364
01:19:55,200 --> 01:19:59,080
perceive as the main covenant
body maybe and and follow me.

1365
01:19:59,960 --> 01:20:02,080
Right.
Haley, how about you were, were

1366
01:20:02,080 --> 01:20:05,520
there any sort of spiritual
experiences through this time

1367
01:20:05,520 --> 01:20:08,400
that kind of bolster ya and tell
ya, hey, you're, you're, you're

1368
01:20:08,400 --> 01:20:09,600
right where you're supposed to
be?

1369
01:20:12,840 --> 01:20:19,040
I'm trying to remember.
I don't think I can remember

1370
01:20:19,040 --> 01:20:23,360
very many dreams from around
that point, and I don't know

1371
01:20:23,360 --> 01:20:29,040
that any of them were kind of
along the same lines as his.

1372
01:20:31,320 --> 01:20:36,000
I just know that like it was
just, it felt like things were

1373
01:20:36,000 --> 01:20:42,600
coming together.
But I really liked when he had

1374
01:20:42,600 --> 01:20:47,400
told me about the dream, getting
into the smaller boat because

1375
01:20:47,400 --> 01:20:58,160
it's really like, I don't know,
it just it felt like a good, a

1376
01:20:58,160 --> 01:21:03,320
good symbol for how it felt like
getting, getting off, leaving

1377
01:21:03,320 --> 01:21:06,440
what felt like the safe option
because it's what we had been

1378
01:21:06,440 --> 01:21:10,280
with for so long.
And climbing into something

1379
01:21:10,280 --> 01:21:11,960
smaller.
That was a lot.

1380
01:21:11,960 --> 01:21:19,280
There were a lot more unknowns.
We didn't know where that path

1381
01:21:19,280 --> 01:21:21,840
was going to take us if we got
in, you know what I mean?

1382
01:21:26,360 --> 01:21:27,640
But.
Yeah, the Spirit was in our

1383
01:21:27,640 --> 01:21:29,400
home.
We we were being comforted by

1384
01:21:29,400 --> 01:21:32,160
the Spirit big time.
But.

1385
01:21:32,440 --> 01:21:34,440
Yeah.
Are you guys still attending the

1386
01:21:34,440 --> 01:21:37,000
LDS church while all this is
going on in your lives?

1387
01:21:37,440 --> 01:21:42,520
Yeah, yeah, we, so we had we had
moved from Rexburg to Montana

1388
01:21:44,400 --> 01:21:47,400
after, after our first year of
marriage that I grew up in

1389
01:21:47,400 --> 01:21:50,840
Montana.
So we moved to my hometown and,

1390
01:21:50,840 --> 01:21:53,640
and it's, it was only 5 hours
away from Rexburg, not too far,

1391
01:21:53,640 --> 01:21:59,400
but, and so we, yeah, we were
attending church in Montana and

1392
01:21:59,400 --> 01:22:05,000
we, we moved to Utah.
We all, all this happened in

1393
01:22:05,000 --> 01:22:08,680
June of 2024.
We moved to Utah in September to

1394
01:22:08,680 --> 01:22:12,720
become fundamentalists, But but
until that time we stayed active

1395
01:22:12,720 --> 01:22:14,160
in our ward.
Gotcha.

1396
01:22:14,680 --> 01:22:17,760
We didn't just bail immediately.
We, you know, we stayed active.

1397
01:22:18,400 --> 01:22:20,280
Gotcha.
Because we had, we had good

1398
01:22:20,280 --> 01:22:23,400
relationships, we had great
friends in that ward and we we

1399
01:22:23,400 --> 01:22:25,720
loved going.
And yeah, it was definitely a

1400
01:22:25,720 --> 01:22:30,840
drag after the Lord shattered
our paradigm, but we still

1401
01:22:31,080 --> 01:22:32,880
wanted to maintain relationships
and whatnot.

1402
01:22:32,880 --> 01:22:36,560
What, what, and, and this is for
both of you, what was the moment

1403
01:22:36,760 --> 01:22:43,040
or the, I guess moment that you
guys were like, I don't think we

1404
01:22:43,040 --> 01:22:47,720
can go back anymore.
Well, we knew when we moved to

1405
01:22:47,720 --> 01:22:50,240
Utah, that was the moment.
That was the moment.

1406
01:22:50,800 --> 01:22:52,680
Yeah, when?
After I moved to Utah.

1407
01:22:52,680 --> 01:22:55,480
That's it where that we're going
to Utah.

1408
01:22:55,480 --> 01:22:59,320
To be fundamentalist, there's no
right, of course not going back.

1409
01:23:00,320 --> 01:23:05,160
Right, right.
That's always the toughest step

1410
01:23:05,160 --> 01:23:10,200
to take, right.
And I your dream about the boat

1411
01:23:10,280 --> 01:23:13,320
is, is super interesting.
You guys know what the normalcy

1412
01:23:13,320 --> 01:23:17,080
bias is?
Yeah, but you could probably

1413
01:23:17,080 --> 01:23:19,000
explain it to give us a really
precise.

1414
01:23:19,080 --> 01:23:24,000
Picture the normalcy bias is
something that's deep within the

1415
01:23:24,000 --> 01:23:27,640
human psyche, which is when
everything goes off the rails,

1416
01:23:27,640 --> 01:23:31,080
we look for something familiar
and it's kind of a way to not

1417
01:23:31,080 --> 01:23:34,600
just self soothe, but also to
cope.

1418
01:23:34,960 --> 01:23:38,680
And that's a good thing, right?
That that allows us to be able

1419
01:23:38,680 --> 01:23:41,560
to navigate a lot of horrible
situations.

1420
01:23:41,880 --> 01:23:45,440
However, it can work to our
detriment.

1421
01:23:46,800 --> 01:23:51,080
One of the the best cases that I
ever read about was during 9/11,

1422
01:23:51,680 --> 01:23:56,040
people were halfway down the
stairwell and they're in this

1423
01:23:56,040 --> 01:23:58,800
moment of just utter shock,
right?

1424
01:23:58,800 --> 01:24:01,120
I mean, a plane has just ran
your building.

1425
01:24:02,360 --> 01:24:06,760
Despite that, there were people
that turned around to like go

1426
01:24:06,760 --> 01:24:10,920
lock their office door or shut
off their computer or something

1427
01:24:10,920 --> 01:24:13,840
like that, right?
And so the psychologist wrote a

1428
01:24:13,840 --> 01:24:15,720
book about it.
And that's what the normalcy

1429
01:24:15,720 --> 01:24:19,880
bias did to them, right?
If you don't check that, it can

1430
01:24:19,880 --> 01:24:23,640
cause you to hesitate, it can
cause you to to make the wrong

1431
01:24:23,640 --> 01:24:27,400
decision.
And, and in some ways, I feel

1432
01:24:27,400 --> 01:24:32,080
like that dream for you guys was
a lot like a check against that,

1433
01:24:32,080 --> 01:24:34,160
right?
Because it's so easy to just be

1434
01:24:34,160 --> 01:24:35,440
like, let's just stay where we
are.

1435
01:24:35,440 --> 01:24:38,480
We know we're safe here.
It's it's worked thus far.

1436
01:24:38,480 --> 01:24:41,960
We'll just shelve all this so
you guys don't fall prey to

1437
01:24:41,960 --> 01:24:43,720
that.
You, you, you actually get in a

1438
01:24:43,720 --> 01:24:46,600
littler boat, metaphorically
speaking, and take off.

1439
01:24:47,320 --> 01:24:51,960
Is, is there a moment at which
you look at each other and like,

1440
01:24:52,480 --> 01:24:54,200
oh man, we're fundamentalist
now?

1441
01:24:54,840 --> 01:25:00,280
Like like is, is there any
moment like that or is it just

1442
01:25:00,280 --> 01:25:05,640
kind of understood?
It was it.

1443
01:25:06,160 --> 01:25:09,600
It was a little bit gradual, but
only over the period of two

1444
01:25:09,600 --> 01:25:12,320
months.
Like I'd say in June our

1445
01:25:12,320 --> 01:25:15,320
paradigm shattered and in August
I felt like a full blown

1446
01:25:15,320 --> 01:25:18,240
fundamentalist by August,
because remember, a foundation

1447
01:25:18,240 --> 01:25:21,880
was already laid and then it was
just the final piece the the

1448
01:25:21,880 --> 01:25:26,480
early 20th century history that
so So by August, I personally

1449
01:25:26,480 --> 01:25:28,320
felt like a fundamentalist.
What about you?

1450
01:25:31,120 --> 01:25:41,480
I'd say probably as well.
It just kind of, but I, I, I'd

1451
01:25:41,480 --> 01:25:46,480
say it wasn't, it wasn't like,
oh, I, I don't know, I guess it

1452
01:25:46,480 --> 01:25:51,480
felt pretty gradual.
It felt like we had finally just

1453
01:25:51,960 --> 01:25:55,400
realized what all the stuff that
we've been doing for the past

1454
01:25:55,400 --> 01:25:59,040
few years meant, you know what I
mean?

1455
01:25:59,040 --> 01:26:02,120
It came to fruition, you know,
it was pretty, it was pretty

1456
01:26:02,120 --> 01:26:07,760
natural it it and and although
it was absolutely traumatic to

1457
01:26:07,880 --> 01:26:12,480
to, you know, to have that
paradigm shatter, but still, it

1458
01:26:12,480 --> 01:26:14,840
was as natural as it could be, I
guess I could say.

1459
01:26:15,200 --> 01:26:21,120
Gotcha, gotcha.
So was there now I know that

1460
01:26:21,120 --> 01:26:25,520
that Haley, your parents are
super important to you right?

1461
01:26:25,520 --> 01:26:29,440
Your dad has taught you from a
young age, it sounds like, not

1462
01:26:29,440 --> 01:26:31,360
just about the gospel in
general.

1463
01:26:32,120 --> 01:26:34,720
At some point you got to start
telling other people about this,

1464
01:26:34,720 --> 01:26:40,080
right?
What have, one, have you told

1465
01:26:40,080 --> 01:26:41,880
your parents?
And then two, if you did, what

1466
01:26:41,880 --> 01:26:47,280
was their response?
So this is another crazy thing.

1467
01:26:47,760 --> 01:26:49,600
OK.
So they they were a part of the

1468
01:26:49,600 --> 01:26:53,160
whole process with us.
So I found out my paradigm

1469
01:26:53,160 --> 01:26:56,240
shattered and her because her
dad had the same foundation we

1470
01:26:56,240 --> 01:26:58,240
did.
He's the one who gave us pretty

1471
01:26:58,240 --> 01:27:01,040
much our foundation.
Well, I found out the early 20th

1472
01:27:01,040 --> 01:27:05,080
century stuff and I sent him the
literature and we our paradigm

1473
01:27:05,080 --> 01:27:09,120
sort of shattered together.
So they were and and they have.

1474
01:27:09,240 --> 01:27:12,880
She is the oldest of 10.
So her parents and all of their

1475
01:27:12,880 --> 01:27:16,280
kids came into fundamentalism
together.

1476
01:27:17,200 --> 01:27:19,960
So.
So you're the oldest, Haley.

1477
01:27:19,960 --> 01:27:22,440
So there's still a lot of kids
at home with your mom and dad.

1478
01:27:22,960 --> 01:27:25,520
Yeah.
And they moved to Utah with us.

1479
01:27:26,400 --> 01:27:29,160
Oh, so this is a family affair.
So you guys are like loading up

1480
01:27:29,160 --> 01:27:32,280
your pull, you know, your your
hand carts and you're gonna

1481
01:27:32,720 --> 01:27:35,600
you're gonna journey, journey to
Utah together on this.

1482
01:27:35,920 --> 01:27:38,000
Yeah, driving our teams and
pulling our hand carts.

1483
01:27:38,000 --> 01:27:38,400
You bet.
Yeah.

1484
01:27:39,040 --> 01:27:40,280
That's awesome.
So.

1485
01:27:40,520 --> 01:27:43,720
So you guys must have had some
serious conversations with your

1486
01:27:43,720 --> 01:27:47,360
parents.
Yeah, the deepest probably we've

1487
01:27:47,360 --> 01:27:52,800
had, because it seemed like our
whole experience LED up to that

1488
01:27:53,440 --> 01:27:55,440
at the moment, you know,
becoming fundamentalist

1489
01:27:55,440 --> 01:27:57,280
together.
So when you were sending

1490
01:27:57,280 --> 01:28:01,120
information to to to your
father-in-law, Eleor, are you

1491
01:28:01,120 --> 01:28:04,640
sending it in terms of maybe you
can explain this to me or were

1492
01:28:04,640 --> 01:28:07,520
you sending it in terms of, bro,
this is broken?

1493
01:28:08,360 --> 01:28:12,400
I knew, so I knew it was hard,
but I, I was trying to convince

1494
01:28:12,400 --> 01:28:15,960
him because he was
understandably hesitant, just

1495
01:28:15,960 --> 01:28:19,840
like I, there was still a lot of
uncertainty for me, but I was

1496
01:28:19,840 --> 01:28:21,760
like, dude, we got to become
fundamentalists.

1497
01:28:21,760 --> 01:28:26,320
Or after the first few days I
was like trying to convince him

1498
01:28:26,360 --> 01:28:31,320
and, and he and I was very light
about it though.

1499
01:28:32,160 --> 01:28:34,360
I was just, I would ask him
questions like, what do you

1500
01:28:34,360 --> 01:28:35,880
think of this?
What do we do, you know?

1501
01:28:35,920 --> 01:28:42,040
And he he sort of found out for
himself as well that

1502
01:28:42,040 --> 01:28:43,840
fundamentalism was, was the
right step.

1503
01:28:44,680 --> 01:28:47,320
Gotcha, gotcha.
Now, Haley, how'd your mom take

1504
01:28:47,320 --> 01:28:55,640
all this?
So I would say we we had the

1505
01:28:55,640 --> 01:29:02,400
conversation earlier about how
it was a huge benefit to Ellieor

1506
01:29:02,400 --> 01:29:05,520
and I that we were talking all
the time about what we were

1507
01:29:05,520 --> 01:29:11,200
learning.
I would say the same thing had

1508
01:29:11,200 --> 01:29:15,440
not happened between my parents,
at least not as much.

1509
01:29:17,000 --> 01:29:21,360
And so while I, while I wasn't
necessarily like sitting down

1510
01:29:21,360 --> 01:29:25,200
and reading all the source
material that my dad and Ellie

1511
01:29:25,200 --> 01:29:30,840
were, were, I was a little bit
more in the loop, you know what

1512
01:29:30,840 --> 01:29:31,680
I mean?
OK, Yeah.

1513
01:29:32,800 --> 01:29:35,880
I got you.
And so that led to my mom and I

1514
01:29:35,880 --> 01:29:39,080
being able to have some
conversations about what was

1515
01:29:39,080 --> 01:29:44,120
going on and like how the spirit
was helping us to feel about it

1516
01:29:44,120 --> 01:29:49,120
and how how it was.
This was a big step in that it

1517
01:29:49,120 --> 01:29:51,320
was requiring a lot of faith,
you know what I mean?

1518
01:29:51,720 --> 01:29:54,880
Right, OK.
And it's not, it's not that her

1519
01:29:54,880 --> 01:29:58,920
dad wasn't communicating.
He just I was like with my wife

1520
01:29:58,920 --> 01:30:01,960
all the time because I worked in
the same room that she spent

1521
01:30:01,960 --> 01:30:04,840
most of most of the day in.
So we could just talk all day

1522
01:30:04,840 --> 01:30:06,560
and stuff.
So you know.

1523
01:30:06,880 --> 01:30:10,560
We we did have it.
We we only.

1524
01:30:11,480 --> 01:30:14,560
Have we only had a few kids and
they had, you know, so it's,

1525
01:30:14,560 --> 01:30:16,840
it's just they had they had a
way bigger plate.

1526
01:30:17,400 --> 01:30:20,360
So right.
It made it a lot easier for us

1527
01:30:20,360 --> 01:30:23,720
to just talk whenever something
came up, like, hey, I just

1528
01:30:23,720 --> 01:30:26,760
learned this or I was reading my
scriptures and I came across

1529
01:30:26,760 --> 01:30:29,000
this and it made me think of
what we've been talking about.

1530
01:30:29,000 --> 01:30:32,320
You know what I mean?
Like we had a lot of opportunity

1531
01:30:32,320 --> 01:30:36,400
to talk with each other and
that, you know, we, we

1532
01:30:36,400 --> 01:30:39,200
understand that's not
everybody's experience, you

1533
01:30:39,200 --> 01:30:42,360
know.
Yeah, no, look, doing this with

1534
01:30:42,360 --> 01:30:47,360
younger kids is a lot easier,
right, Because there is, you

1535
01:30:47,360 --> 01:30:50,440
know, speaking from experience,
there's a lot of trying to

1536
01:30:50,440 --> 01:30:53,520
figure it out with the adults
before you break it to the kids,

1537
01:30:53,760 --> 01:30:57,160
right.
And so, yeah, I could see where,

1538
01:30:57,160 --> 01:30:59,040
where the situation is being
different.

1539
01:30:59,800 --> 01:31:02,400
It would, it would, yeah, I
could see how that would work.

1540
01:31:02,920 --> 01:31:07,360
So you, you guys decide you're
going to move to Utah, right,

1541
01:31:07,360 --> 01:31:09,760
Because that's where all the
fundamentalists have to be

1542
01:31:09,760 --> 01:31:12,120
residing.
It's down in Utah.

1543
01:31:13,520 --> 01:31:18,560
And so did you guys have a plan?
I mean, like, hey, we're going

1544
01:31:18,560 --> 01:31:22,120
to go join up with somebody.
Or had you been talking to

1545
01:31:22,120 --> 01:31:25,240
anybody or you guys just like
pulling the trigger cold Like

1546
01:31:25,840 --> 01:31:27,840
we're we're going to the
mountain, we're going back to

1547
01:31:27,840 --> 01:31:30,560
Utah?
The mountains of Ephraim now.

1548
01:31:30,600 --> 01:31:35,880
So my buddy who had sort of red
pilled me on fundamentalism at

1549
01:31:36,000 --> 01:31:38,000
after I spoke at restoration to
our conference.

1550
01:31:38,200 --> 01:31:39,840
Go ahead, you can mention his
name on here.

1551
01:31:39,840 --> 01:31:41,200
We need to shout him out,
probably.

1552
01:31:41,560 --> 01:31:43,240
Yeah, you know him.
You've had him on your show.

1553
01:31:43,240 --> 01:31:46,040
Ben Mcclintock.
OK, Yep, Yep, Yep.

1554
01:31:47,320 --> 01:31:50,720
So.
So he sends me all these docs.

1555
01:31:50,760 --> 01:31:54,000
I find out he's AUB.
So that's where I'm going.

1556
01:31:54,240 --> 01:31:59,560
They send me all the docs like
a, you know, they I learned

1557
01:31:59,560 --> 01:32:02,920
about the priesthood council
with, with Joe Musser and and

1558
01:32:02,920 --> 01:32:07,360
the woollies and I I see OK, AUB
makes the most sense.

1559
01:32:07,360 --> 01:32:11,160
So that that was our plan, move
to Utah, join the AUB.

1560
01:32:12,120 --> 01:32:14,480
Gotcha.
Gotcha.

1561
01:32:14,480 --> 01:32:15,800
And is that the way it went for
you?

1562
01:32:16,280 --> 01:32:22,280
No, no, To our shock and another
traumatic paradigm shatter.

1563
01:32:22,720 --> 01:32:24,880
Nope.
Gotcha, gotcha.

1564
01:32:24,880 --> 01:32:27,080
Just not a good fit.
Well.

1565
01:32:27,840 --> 01:32:30,680
Well, we moved to Utah.
We're we're like weeks away from

1566
01:32:30,680 --> 01:32:33,040
being asked to join.
I'm I'm guessing because her

1567
01:32:33,040 --> 01:32:35,040
parents did join.
Because.

1568
01:32:35,080 --> 01:32:37,640
We were all in this together.
So mom and dad pulled that

1569
01:32:37,640 --> 01:32:39,400
trigger quick.
They pulled the trigger.

1570
01:32:39,760 --> 01:32:43,000
They they joined probably a
month after we decided not to.

1571
01:32:43,040 --> 01:32:48,960
They got baptized.
Well, well, we're living in

1572
01:32:48,960 --> 01:32:52,320
Utah, about to join the AB, and
something doesn't feel right.

1573
01:32:52,360 --> 01:32:55,560
We know we've been led on this
path into fundamentalism.

1574
01:32:56,200 --> 01:32:59,000
The the impressions were clear.
The piece was clear.

1575
01:33:00,240 --> 01:33:03,280
Well, something doesn't feel
right about us joining the AUB

1576
01:33:04,120 --> 01:33:06,560
and we pray about it and the
impressions are very clear.

1577
01:33:06,560 --> 01:33:10,760
We're not supposed to join the
AUB and I even I had dreams

1578
01:33:10,760 --> 01:33:16,840
again, I probably won't share
those, but I, the Lord spoke to

1579
01:33:16,840 --> 01:33:18,680
us and we knew we weren't
supposed to do it.

1580
01:33:19,240 --> 01:33:22,560
And that was another paradigm
shatter because if.

1581
01:33:23,240 --> 01:33:25,880
And again, not because anyone's
bad there, but just because

1582
01:33:26,080 --> 01:33:30,920
you're not supposed to go there.
Yes, yes, exactly.

1583
01:33:32,120 --> 01:33:34,480
And it was, it was another, I
should say paradigm shift,

1584
01:33:35,040 --> 01:33:39,000
because at that point I, I
thought, well, the ABS the only

1585
01:33:39,000 --> 01:33:43,040
place on earth I, I before I
thought the church was now I

1586
01:33:43,040 --> 01:33:46,400
thought the AUB was the only
place on earth with the keys.

1587
01:33:46,680 --> 01:33:49,160
And so to, to for the Lord to
tell us not to join.

1588
01:33:49,160 --> 01:33:52,320
It was like it kind of sent me
into another crisis.

1589
01:33:52,560 --> 01:33:54,280
Like it was like, why?
What?

1590
01:33:54,360 --> 01:33:57,080
What was all of this for?
You know what I mean?

1591
01:33:57,280 --> 01:33:58,920
Like.
Yeah, like the earth fell from

1592
01:33:58,920 --> 01:34:02,400
beneath my feet because where
are we supposed to go?

1593
01:34:02,600 --> 01:34:05,320
Who has the key?
So that's when I met.

1594
01:34:05,480 --> 01:34:09,040
That's when I met you, Taylor
Smith, and started having really

1595
01:34:09,040 --> 01:34:11,840
good conversations with you,
with our mutual friend Sean.

1596
01:34:12,560 --> 01:34:16,120
And I realized that there's more
to Mormonism than the church,

1597
01:34:16,480 --> 01:34:18,520
and there's more to
fundamentalism than the AUB.

1598
01:34:19,400 --> 01:34:22,000
Right.
Haley, were you getting the same

1599
01:34:22,000 --> 01:34:24,840
sort of vibes as you were
praying about about where to go

1600
01:34:24,840 --> 01:34:26,920
to church and that sort of thing
as Eleor was?

1601
01:34:27,840 --> 01:34:31,560
Oh, yeah.
So it was really interesting.

1602
01:34:31,960 --> 01:34:38,640
Both of us had been like
investigating and like, you

1603
01:34:38,640 --> 01:34:47,360
know, starting to move into like
the, the culture of the AEB and

1604
01:34:47,360 --> 01:34:51,120
get to know people and stuff.
And then it was like, both of us

1605
01:34:51,640 --> 01:34:56,000
just have like little, little
impressions, like, hey, maybe we

1606
01:34:56,000 --> 01:34:59,200
shouldn't get baptized in the
AUB, you know what I mean?

1607
01:34:59,680 --> 01:35:03,000
But it was like both of us,
before, we had talked to each

1608
01:35:03,000 --> 01:35:04,920
other about it.
Yeah.

1609
01:35:05,560 --> 01:35:07,560
You know, I mean, there was.
There was peace.

1610
01:35:07,560 --> 01:35:10,800
It was, it wasn't like a like a
satanic deception.

1611
01:35:10,800 --> 01:35:12,880
There was peace and light
associated with those

1612
01:35:12,880 --> 01:35:15,840
impressions, like it was clearly
from the Spirit, the same spirit

1613
01:35:15,840 --> 01:35:19,440
that led us into fundamentalism,
impressed upon us, you know,

1614
01:35:19,480 --> 01:35:21,280
gave us those little impressions
not to join.

1615
01:35:21,960 --> 01:35:23,760
That must have been a
frustrating feeling, though,

1616
01:35:23,760 --> 01:35:25,560
right?
Because you got a plan, right?

1617
01:35:25,560 --> 01:35:28,280
Yeah.
You, you you strike me as AII

1618
01:35:28,280 --> 01:35:30,120
know what we're going to do.
We're going to move to Utah.

1619
01:35:30,120 --> 01:35:32,040
We're going to join this group.
We're going to be cool.

1620
01:35:32,040 --> 01:35:33,440
That's where we'll we'll set up
shop.

1621
01:35:33,440 --> 01:35:36,680
And that's what we'll hang out
till Jesus comes back.

1622
01:35:37,000 --> 01:35:38,800
Exactly.
That was the plan.

1623
01:35:38,880 --> 01:35:41,440
That was the plan, right?
And we've all been there with

1624
01:35:41,440 --> 01:35:43,680
the plan.
And what I like to say is plans

1625
01:35:43,680 --> 01:35:46,800
are what we do, why we're
actually living right.

1626
01:35:46,800 --> 01:35:50,520
Like, I don't know a lot of
fundamentalists who start out

1627
01:35:50,520 --> 01:35:52,960
with a goal and end up right
there instead.

1628
01:35:52,960 --> 01:35:55,760
The Lord's like, that's cute,
but I got something else for you

1629
01:35:55,760 --> 01:35:57,320
I need you to do.
Right.

1630
01:35:58,480 --> 01:36:02,000
So so did did that you said it
kind of made the earth fall out

1631
01:36:02,000 --> 01:36:02,720
from under you.
What?

1632
01:36:02,760 --> 01:36:05,440
What are you thinking in these
points at this point?

1633
01:36:05,680 --> 01:36:08,040
I'm devastated.
I am absolutely.

1634
01:36:08,400 --> 01:36:14,520
I'm, it's, it's a crisis because
I'm like, is the vineyard about

1635
01:36:14,520 --> 01:36:17,280
to be burned?
Is there no place on earth right

1636
01:36:17,280 --> 01:36:19,240
now?
Like who's going to we, we

1637
01:36:19,240 --> 01:36:21,880
failed.
We failed in Nauvoo when the

1638
01:36:21,880 --> 01:36:25,120
Lord asked us one more time,
like, you know, we failed and

1639
01:36:25,120 --> 01:36:27,640
that that's part of the reason
we lost Joseph, because we

1640
01:36:27,640 --> 01:36:30,320
didn't build Zion, We didn't
build a city of Enoch.

1641
01:36:31,040 --> 01:36:33,280
And now we've been floundering
for hundreds of years.

1642
01:36:33,280 --> 01:36:36,000
And I'm like, what, what, what's
the story?

1643
01:36:36,000 --> 01:36:41,560
What I I kind of lost hope, I'm
sad to say, but it's I'm sure

1644
01:36:41,560 --> 01:36:42,920
you can understand.
Sure.

1645
01:36:43,200 --> 01:36:44,120
Yep, I can't.
Not a.

1646
01:36:44,320 --> 01:36:46,600
Fun experience.
No, no, it's not.

1647
01:36:46,960 --> 01:36:51,920
Because look, as Mormons, we're
programmed for community, right?

1648
01:36:54,000 --> 01:36:58,120
And and without that right,
without a sense of belonging

1649
01:36:58,120 --> 01:37:02,160
somewhere, for a Mormon, that's
devastating, right?

1650
01:37:03,360 --> 01:37:05,800
And so to not have that is
rough.

1651
01:37:05,800 --> 01:37:09,560
The other thing I'll say is that
the ultimate goal we want in

1652
01:37:09,560 --> 01:37:14,040
Mormonism, at least on this
earth, is to establish Zion.

1653
01:37:14,080 --> 01:37:19,160
Right now you can have a really
Zion type family with just you

1654
01:37:19,160 --> 01:37:21,880
and your family.
Yeah, you can do that all day

1655
01:37:21,880 --> 01:37:23,280
long.
Exactly.

1656
01:37:23,480 --> 01:37:27,520
But it's if you're really
seeking after what Joseph want,

1657
01:37:27,800 --> 01:37:31,520
what was setting up right as the
Lord revealed it.

1658
01:37:31,760 --> 01:37:37,240
You have to have other people
around you to, to build, to, to

1659
01:37:37,240 --> 01:37:44,040
get that Zion type feeling going
and, and, and, and to not have

1660
01:37:44,040 --> 01:37:46,160
that is, is somewhat
discouraging.

1661
01:37:46,840 --> 01:37:51,200
And so, and, and I think we
don't recognize how important

1662
01:37:51,200 --> 01:37:52,880
that is in the gospel plan,
right?

1663
01:37:52,880 --> 01:37:56,520
Because I go back to history and
I look, I mean, as far as just

1664
01:37:56,520 --> 01:38:01,240
straight chapels, Joseph built
exactly zero of those.

1665
01:38:01,320 --> 01:38:03,440
He built temples and
communities, right?

1666
01:38:03,840 --> 01:38:06,320
So he's, he's thinking on
another level.

1667
01:38:06,320 --> 01:38:11,880
So if we want that what Joseph
had revealed from God, we got to

1668
01:38:11,880 --> 01:38:14,200
have other people around me.
Exactly.

1669
01:38:14,400 --> 01:38:16,600
In that moment of hopelessness,
what, what?

1670
01:38:17,360 --> 01:38:21,000
What do you do?
I began searching for answers.

1671
01:38:21,600 --> 01:38:25,280
I called Rob Kay, who runs the
Mormon Yeshiva channel.

1672
01:38:25,560 --> 01:38:28,680
I was put into contact with you.
I was put into contact with

1673
01:38:28,680 --> 01:38:33,360
Taylor Smith, and Taylor Smith
said something that hit me

1674
01:38:33,360 --> 01:38:35,320
really hard.
That gave me a little bit of

1675
01:38:35,320 --> 01:38:39,280
hope.
We're all familiar with Jacob 5,

1676
01:38:39,280 --> 01:38:45,040
the parable of the vineyard.
Well, we liken the the olive

1677
01:38:45,040 --> 01:38:50,000
tree to the world or to the
House of Israel, but all Hebrew

1678
01:38:50,000 --> 01:38:52,360
prophecy is fractal or
multivalent.

1679
01:38:52,720 --> 01:38:58,800
That that allegory or parable is
definitely meant to be applied

1680
01:38:58,800 --> 01:39:03,520
to the Restoration as well.
So I think you know, 'cause at

1681
01:39:03,520 --> 01:39:05,840
this point I'm a firm believer
in the traditional

1682
01:39:05,840 --> 01:39:09,040
interpretation of the one man
doctrine in DNC 132.

1683
01:39:09,360 --> 01:39:12,760
So I think if AU BS not it, I've
studied every other

1684
01:39:12,760 --> 01:39:16,200
fundamentalist branch or most of
them and they don't seem to be

1685
01:39:16,200 --> 01:39:17,400
it.
So where do we go?

1686
01:39:17,800 --> 01:39:21,160
Well, Taylor shared with me the
parable of how how Jacob 5

1687
01:39:21,160 --> 01:39:25,920
applies to Mormonism and how the
Lord has many branches in his

1688
01:39:25,920 --> 01:39:30,640
vineyard and he's, he sends
branches, he separates branches

1689
01:39:30,640 --> 01:39:34,520
from the tree as he sees fit.
There's not just the tree,

1690
01:39:34,680 --> 01:39:39,800
there's branches of Mormonism.
And so I began to gain some hope

1691
01:39:39,800 --> 01:39:48,000
that maybe, maybe there were,
you know, multiple legitimate

1692
01:39:48,000 --> 01:39:51,040
branches hanging around.
And and then he also shared with

1693
01:39:51,040 --> 01:39:56,000
me the alternative
interpretations of DNC 132 and

1694
01:39:56,000 --> 01:39:58,960
the one man doctrine, which
were, you know, directly related

1695
01:39:58,960 --> 01:40:02,760
to that.
So that's another paradigm shift

1696
01:40:02,760 --> 01:40:04,240
for you, right?
Oh yeah.

1697
01:40:04,240 --> 01:40:07,040
You enter fundamentalism
essentially with this idea of

1698
01:40:07,040 --> 01:40:08,800
we're going to look for for the
one man.

1699
01:40:09,600 --> 01:40:12,440
Yeah, that's the church and and
most of fundamentalism.

1700
01:40:12,560 --> 01:40:15,400
Yeah.
Haley, how'd you feel when when

1701
01:40:15,400 --> 01:40:18,680
you found out that OK, the AU B
is not not an option here for

1702
01:40:18,680 --> 01:40:24,120
us?
That was, it was a really

1703
01:40:24,120 --> 01:40:27,480
interesting and confusing time
because we kept on talking about

1704
01:40:27,480 --> 01:40:30,640
it.
We're like, OK, like he was

1705
01:40:30,640 --> 01:40:34,720
saying like, if it's not the
mainstream church and it's not

1706
01:40:35,480 --> 01:40:37,920
the AB, then like, what are we
going to do?

1707
01:40:37,920 --> 01:40:43,640
Because we just like this, this
was a really big change in our

1708
01:40:43,640 --> 01:40:46,600
lives.
We just up and moved to a

1709
01:40:46,600 --> 01:40:54,360
different state and now we like,
we were just talking about

1710
01:40:54,360 --> 01:40:59,760
community.
Now we don't feel like we have a

1711
01:40:59,760 --> 01:41:02,240
congregation to meet with, you
know what I mean?

1712
01:41:03,760 --> 01:41:09,400
So it definitely felt lonely,
but we just had to really just

1713
01:41:09,400 --> 01:41:13,640
pray about it and realize like,
if the Lord was.

1714
01:41:13,640 --> 01:41:19,800
So if the Lord is going to tell
us so strongly that we were

1715
01:41:19,800 --> 01:41:23,360
supposed to do this, then
obviously he's not just going to

1716
01:41:23,360 --> 01:41:26,440
leave us hanging.
He's not just going to be like,

1717
01:41:26,440 --> 01:41:30,600
well, actually no, and then not
help us out, you know what I

1718
01:41:30,600 --> 01:41:39,320
mean?
And so, man, we just prayed a

1719
01:41:39,320 --> 01:41:47,520
lot and just really had to rely
on the Lord and really just put

1720
01:41:47,520 --> 01:41:50,920
our faith in Him 'cause we
didn't know where we were

1721
01:41:50,920 --> 01:41:53,640
supposed to go.
Yeah, You know, it's so

1722
01:41:53,640 --> 01:41:55,560
interesting.
There are times I think the

1723
01:41:55,560 --> 01:41:59,120
Lord, especially when you start
diving into the fullness of

1724
01:41:59,120 --> 01:42:02,760
things, I think, I think
sometimes the Lord, at least he

1725
01:42:02,760 --> 01:42:05,160
did in my life, and it sounds
like he kind of did in yours.

1726
01:42:05,880 --> 01:42:09,800
He'll he'll lead you to a place
where you're completely

1727
01:42:09,800 --> 01:42:11,920
dependent upon Him.
Oh yeah.

1728
01:42:11,960 --> 01:42:13,760
Right.
I remember the first time I, I,

1729
01:42:13,840 --> 01:42:17,720
I lived plural marriage, I
didn't have anybody around me.

1730
01:42:18,240 --> 01:42:21,400
I mean, it was, I was all by
myself, right?

1731
01:42:21,400 --> 01:42:26,520
With, with me and Amber and the,
the, the other lady that was my

1732
01:42:26,520 --> 01:42:31,000
wife, we had to figure this out
on our own, right?

1733
01:42:31,400 --> 01:42:34,400
And at the time it felt really
crappy, right?

1734
01:42:34,400 --> 01:42:39,280
I'm like, you know, I wish there
was that one old wise

1735
01:42:39,880 --> 01:42:43,680
fundamentalist I could go talk
to and and garner some sort of

1736
01:42:44,680 --> 01:42:47,280
wisdom from, but I didn't have
that.

1737
01:42:47,280 --> 01:42:51,000
So in lieu of that, all I had
was primary sources, right?

1738
01:42:51,600 --> 01:42:54,320
There you go.
Looking back, though, I think

1739
01:42:54,320 --> 01:43:02,160
that that time period, as bad as
it felt in the moment, taught me

1740
01:43:02,160 --> 01:43:04,600
how to really rely on the Lord,
right?

1741
01:43:04,600 --> 01:43:07,200
It was like, OK, bud, you and I
are going to work this out

1742
01:43:07,200 --> 01:43:12,360
together, right?
And, you know, it was painful

1743
01:43:12,360 --> 01:43:14,040
for me.
So I know it was 10 times more

1744
01:43:14,040 --> 01:43:17,760
painful for the Lord because I,
I'm, I'm, you know, slow

1745
01:43:17,760 --> 01:43:24,440
learner, the whole ball of wax.
And, and so, but in a weird way

1746
01:43:24,440 --> 01:43:26,920
now I look back on those times
with a certain sense of

1747
01:43:26,920 --> 01:43:30,600
fondness, right?
Because it's just me looking up

1748
01:43:30,600 --> 01:43:33,320
at heaven going, you got me
because I'm doing some crazy

1749
01:43:33,320 --> 01:43:35,680
stuff here, bro.
I hope you got me.

1750
01:43:37,080 --> 01:43:42,680
But so, so you guys are still in
Utah, correct?

1751
01:43:43,240 --> 01:43:47,840
Yep, all right, living living in
a six bedroom house with 26

1752
01:43:47,840 --> 01:43:51,480
people who are all joining the
AUB or who are in the AUB or

1753
01:43:51,480 --> 01:43:54,400
joining the AUB and all of a
sudden we're not joining the

1754
01:43:54,400 --> 01:43:56,840
AUB.
So you can imagine the tension

1755
01:43:56,840 --> 01:43:58,800
it's.
Gonna make sense.

1756
01:43:58,920 --> 01:44:01,760
You're being interesting.
We're apostate now, you know

1757
01:44:01,760 --> 01:44:02,400
what I mean?
Again.

1758
01:44:02,400 --> 01:44:03,520
Again.
Again.

1759
01:44:04,040 --> 01:44:05,400
Again.
And it was.

1760
01:44:06,040 --> 01:44:11,480
Extremely stressful.
That's too shall pass.

1761
01:44:12,080 --> 01:44:15,840
It'll be all right.
So yeah, no, dude, it's it's

1762
01:44:15,920 --> 01:44:19,200
interesting stuff.
So we we've got to this point.

1763
01:44:19,200 --> 01:44:22,800
Is there anything else that
happens between that time that

1764
01:44:22,800 --> 01:44:26,680
that you don't join the AUB to
now?

1765
01:44:26,720 --> 01:44:29,440
Is there anything that that you
feel like we skipped or glossed

1766
01:44:29,440 --> 01:44:31,960
over?
Well, do you mind?

1767
01:44:33,520 --> 01:44:34,840
Between.
Yeah.

1768
01:44:35,600 --> 01:44:39,320
So we discovered for ourselves
that the traditional

1769
01:44:39,320 --> 01:44:43,720
interpretation of one the one
man doctrine is not the best way

1770
01:44:43,720 --> 01:44:47,400
to interpret that.
We realize there are many

1771
01:44:47,400 --> 01:44:50,240
legitimate lines of priesthood
throughout the entire vineyard

1772
01:44:50,240 --> 01:44:52,920
of Mormonism in in many of the
groups.

1773
01:44:55,880 --> 01:45:00,920
And we also we start fellowship,
fellowshipping with the Ericsson

1774
01:45:00,920 --> 01:45:03,320
family 'cause they fellowship
twice a month.

1775
01:45:04,080 --> 01:45:07,160
So we now we have a new
community of independent

1776
01:45:07,160 --> 01:45:09,800
fundamentalists.
So we're, we are now independent

1777
01:45:09,800 --> 01:45:13,440
fundamentalists because not
because independent is the best

1778
01:45:13,440 --> 01:45:14,880
way to remember we got to have a
Zion.

1779
01:45:14,880 --> 01:45:16,640
We, we have to be of 1 heart and
one mind.

1780
01:45:16,640 --> 01:45:19,960
But as we're waiting on the Lord
to lead us, we are independent.

1781
01:45:19,960 --> 01:45:25,800
So soon after our paradigm
shattered regarding the AUB and

1782
01:45:25,800 --> 01:45:29,840
we decided not to join, we were
baptized in the River Jordan

1783
01:45:29,840 --> 01:45:34,680
here in Utah in mid-december by
Joshua Erickson and I was we

1784
01:45:34,680 --> 01:45:38,160
were confirmed and I was given
priesthood or I was baptized and

1785
01:45:38,160 --> 01:45:40,880
confirmed by him and then given
priesthood and then I baptized

1786
01:45:40,880 --> 01:45:45,680
and confirmed my wife and and so
amazing experience.

1787
01:45:45,680 --> 01:45:49,000
Even though it was freezing
cold, the spirit was insanely

1788
01:45:49,000 --> 01:45:54,040
strong.
And ever since then we've been,

1789
01:45:55,280 --> 01:45:59,320
we have been waiting on the Lord
looking forward to the day when

1790
01:45:59,320 --> 01:46:00,920
we're worshiping with the
covenant body.

1791
01:46:02,680 --> 01:46:05,840
And there's one more thing I
want to say regarding our the

1792
01:46:05,840 --> 01:46:08,480
development of our journey up
until this point, but I want to

1793
01:46:08,480 --> 01:46:10,760
know if you have any questions
or anything like.

1794
01:46:10,760 --> 01:46:14,440
That Nope Nope I I do.
I do want to ask Kaylee what was

1795
01:46:14,440 --> 01:46:24,280
it like being re baptized?
So I can't remember the last

1796
01:46:24,280 --> 01:46:26,840
time I had felt such a raw sense
of joy.

1797
01:46:30,200 --> 01:46:34,160
The spirit was so strong.
He and I just felt so happy.

1798
01:46:34,160 --> 01:46:39,040
And that that feeling lasted
like what?

1799
01:46:39,040 --> 01:46:40,320
The whole day or whatever.
Like.

1800
01:46:40,480 --> 01:46:45,400
We.
Were just we were so happy.

1801
01:46:47,360 --> 01:46:52,560
It was definitely an interesting
experience considering that it

1802
01:46:52,560 --> 01:46:59,080
was mid-december and it was so,
so cold, but like.

1803
01:46:59,400 --> 01:47:01,600
We felt we felt inspired to do
that too.

1804
01:47:01,920 --> 01:47:08,360
Yeah, yeah, I would.
We we were free from having to

1805
01:47:08,360 --> 01:47:12,640
wait for the AUB to let us join.
And now and now and now that I

1806
01:47:12,640 --> 01:47:15,160
knew, like Joshua Erickson's
line of priesthood was

1807
01:47:15,160 --> 01:47:17,760
legitimate, why would we wait to
be baptized?

1808
01:47:18,440 --> 01:47:21,800
You know, it's to be confirmed,
baptized and received priesthood

1809
01:47:21,800 --> 01:47:23,200
and all that.
So yeah.

1810
01:47:24,600 --> 01:47:27,000
OK, so there was something else
you were going to bring up and

1811
01:47:27,000 --> 01:47:29,160
you asked me if I had any
questions or whatever.

1812
01:47:30,000 --> 01:47:32,960
Yeah.
Well, our, our, our journey is

1813
01:47:32,960 --> 01:47:36,080
recently taking an extremely
unexpected turn and we're,

1814
01:47:36,080 --> 01:47:38,320
again, we're just following the
promptings we received.

1815
01:47:38,680 --> 01:47:41,280
So we would love to join the
Missouri group.

1816
01:47:41,320 --> 01:47:43,520
That's our dream, the the LOB
group.

1817
01:47:43,520 --> 01:47:46,880
We would love to worship with
the LOB group with you guys, but

1818
01:47:46,880 --> 01:47:53,080
right now we, we recently met,
we, we moved out of that house

1819
01:47:53,760 --> 01:47:57,040
and we haven't had our records
removed from the church because

1820
01:47:57,040 --> 01:48:00,640
I, I don't think that's
necessary and what not.

1821
01:48:01,160 --> 01:48:06,040
We had a visit from a member of
our ward that we're technically

1822
01:48:06,040 --> 01:48:11,600
in and it was a very nice visit
and we felt strongly impressed

1823
01:48:11,640 --> 01:48:16,040
to attend mainstream church
again as fundamentalists.

1824
01:48:16,040 --> 01:48:18,920
And this ward happens to be
extremely open to that.

1825
01:48:18,920 --> 01:48:21,080
They have, they have tons of
members who are actually

1826
01:48:21,080 --> 01:48:23,880
fundamentalists but still going
to church for whatever reason.

1827
01:48:23,880 --> 01:48:26,320
So, so we are going to be
fellowshipping with the

1828
01:48:26,320 --> 01:48:29,480
Ericsson's half the month and
then attending our our

1829
01:48:29,480 --> 01:48:33,520
mainstream ward half the month,
which is insane and.

1830
01:48:33,680 --> 01:48:37,280
And slow, slow the roll.
I I got to ask this question.

1831
01:48:37,600 --> 01:48:41,720
So when you say fundamentalist,
like more than one wife

1832
01:48:41,720 --> 01:48:45,280
fundamentalist or more?
No intellectual fundamentalist.

1833
01:48:45,600 --> 01:48:48,680
Intellectual because that OK,
that would obviously be a deal

1834
01:48:48,680 --> 01:48:51,520
breaker, yeah.
Yeah, I was going to say things

1835
01:48:51,520 --> 01:48:53,840
have really changed.
I need to re evaluate what's

1836
01:48:53,840 --> 01:48:55,960
going on.
Exactly.

1837
01:48:56,240 --> 01:48:57,200
Yeah, OK.
All right.

1838
01:48:57,200 --> 01:49:01,440
No, that makes sense.
No, look, there's way more that

1839
01:49:01,440 --> 01:49:04,920
separate that that ties us
together than separates us,

1840
01:49:05,000 --> 01:49:08,880
right.
And so, like, look, you're,

1841
01:49:08,920 --> 01:49:11,160
you're you're doing the best you
can with what you got.

1842
01:49:11,160 --> 01:49:14,760
I I can't fault you in that.
I mean, I think that that that's

1843
01:49:14,760 --> 01:49:16,440
legit.
I mean, as long as you're not

1844
01:49:17,000 --> 01:49:20,480
having to hide, I got no issues.
Yeah.

1845
01:49:20,720 --> 01:49:25,000
So yeah.
Well, and I you know, obviously

1846
01:49:25,000 --> 01:49:27,680
when we're called to live
celestial plural marriage.

1847
01:49:28,320 --> 01:49:32,040
I think this the attending
church is AI.

1848
01:49:32,040 --> 01:49:36,160
Can't imagine it being a long
term plan of the Lord, but if

1849
01:49:36,160 --> 01:49:38,960
for whatever reason he wants us
to do it to to attend our league

1850
01:49:38,960 --> 01:49:40,760
awards.
You do what the Lord tells you.

1851
01:49:41,240 --> 01:49:46,640
Yeah, That's that's that's all
you do so well, guys, this is

1852
01:49:47,200 --> 01:49:49,480
this has been awesome.
Is there anything else you want

1853
01:49:49,480 --> 01:49:51,240
to talk about that we didn't
something?

1854
01:49:53,720 --> 01:49:55,320
That I can think of anything at
the moment.

1855
01:49:56,320 --> 01:50:01,880
I just want to say to any
listeners who were on this

1856
01:50:01,880 --> 01:50:06,200
journey who are maybe confused,
just follow the Lord.

1857
01:50:06,400 --> 01:50:10,600
It it's OK if he leads, if he
says stay in the church, if he

1858
01:50:10,600 --> 01:50:15,520
says go AUB, if he says go
Nelson Naylor or whatever like

1859
01:50:15,600 --> 01:50:21,120
the Lord is, the Lord is moving
branches of the olive tree as he

1860
01:50:21,120 --> 01:50:23,920
sees fit and he will redeem his
vineyard.

1861
01:50:23,920 --> 01:50:26,920
Right now it looks like the
vineyard should be burned.

1862
01:50:26,920 --> 01:50:29,160
We haven't built Zion.
It's been 200 years.

1863
01:50:29,640 --> 01:50:31,320
We have not built the city of
Enoch.

1864
01:50:31,840 --> 01:50:34,240
We could have been gathering
people to us this whole time

1865
01:50:34,240 --> 01:50:37,560
since since the church was
founded.

1866
01:50:37,840 --> 01:50:41,040
We could have lived, we could
have become a Zion people had

1867
01:50:41,040 --> 01:50:44,200
the presence of the Lord and
been gathering and we haven't.

1868
01:50:44,200 --> 01:50:47,640
But I know the Lord will redeem
his vineyard as is prophesied in

1869
01:50:47,640 --> 01:50:50,760
Jacob 5 So I I say just follow
the Lord wherever he leads you.

1870
01:50:51,880 --> 01:50:56,240
Perfect.
And one just just, I'm going to

1871
01:50:56,240 --> 01:50:58,360
ask one last question here to
wrap up.

1872
01:50:59,400 --> 01:51:03,880
And I, I ask it anytime I have
these types of conversations

1873
01:51:03,880 --> 01:51:07,720
with people.
And this is to each of you.

1874
01:51:07,720 --> 01:51:10,160
So you'll each get a chance to,
to answer this.

1875
01:51:11,200 --> 01:51:15,640
If you could go back and talk to
your former self that was super

1876
01:51:15,640 --> 01:51:19,080
active in the LDS church, what
would you tell him?

1877
01:51:27,160 --> 01:51:38,560
Probably that that I would need
to be ready for the devil to

1878
01:51:38,560 --> 01:51:45,320
make more of an effort than he
ever has to try and sway me to

1879
01:51:45,320 --> 01:51:54,520
try and make me feel like angry
and confused and scared.

1880
01:51:54,520 --> 01:51:59,280
Just cause 'cause I'll say like
when I, when I was in the

1881
01:51:59,280 --> 01:52:03,240
church, like full time and
everything and having a great

1882
01:52:03,240 --> 01:52:07,760
time learning about the gospel
and everything, there weren't

1883
01:52:07,920 --> 01:52:11,840
many instances at least that I
could recognize where I felt

1884
01:52:11,840 --> 01:52:17,000
like the devil was really trying
to like fight me, You know what

1885
01:52:17,000 --> 01:52:21,680
I mean?
And since, since the Lord has

1886
01:52:21,680 --> 01:52:26,720
moved us in this direction,
there's been so much more of an

1887
01:52:26,720 --> 01:52:32,560
effort.
And if anything, that has really

1888
01:52:32,560 --> 01:52:38,240
solidified to me that we're
doing the right thing because he

1889
01:52:38,240 --> 01:52:41,400
wouldn't care so much if we
were, you know, he'd, he'd be

1890
01:52:41,400 --> 01:52:43,600
happy if we were going off the
rails somewhere.

1891
01:52:43,600 --> 01:52:45,680
You know what I mean?
No, absolutely.

1892
01:52:45,680 --> 01:52:49,680
You bring up a great point.
And as Mormons, we're kind of,

1893
01:52:50,880 --> 01:52:54,520
especially from an LDS
background, it's not taught

1894
01:52:54,520 --> 01:52:59,640
implicitly, but there is a
feeling or a sense that if

1895
01:52:59,640 --> 01:53:04,080
you're doing what's right,
things should go easy right now,

1896
01:53:04,080 --> 01:53:09,320
I, I tend to look at that
sometimes it's the opposite,

1897
01:53:09,520 --> 01:53:14,760
right?
World War 2, the Korean War fire

1898
01:53:14,760 --> 01:53:17,120
pilots used to have a saying,
which was if you're not over

1899
01:53:17,120 --> 01:53:19,760
the, if you're not taking flak,
you're not over the target,

1900
01:53:20,200 --> 01:53:21,600
right?
Meaning if they're not shooting

1901
01:53:21,600 --> 01:53:24,640
at you, you're not anywhere
close to where you really need

1902
01:53:24,640 --> 01:53:26,320
to be to fulfill your mission,
right?

1903
01:53:26,800 --> 01:53:31,760
And so I, I've always kind of,
you know, gauged it like if I'm

1904
01:53:31,760 --> 01:53:34,600
not getting enough pushback,
what am I missing, right?

1905
01:53:34,640 --> 01:53:39,120
I'm obviously not not irritating
the right source, so.

1906
01:53:39,440 --> 01:53:42,000
You need to.
Need to retool yeah?

1907
01:53:43,040 --> 01:53:46,160
So yeah, same question to you
now, Eleor.

1908
01:53:46,880 --> 01:53:54,000
Yeah, yeah.
If I could go back and tell my

1909
01:53:54,800 --> 01:53:58,680
former church going self like
active mainstream latter day St.

1910
01:53:58,680 --> 01:54:04,160
Self one thing, it'd be preach
nothing and live nothing but the

1911
01:54:04,160 --> 01:54:08,600
doctrine of Christ, which is the
most fundamental doctrine and is

1912
01:54:08,600 --> 01:54:14,120
the most overlooked doctrine.
And which is basically trust God

1913
01:54:14,400 --> 01:54:17,240
and repent sufficiently that
your heart is broken on the

1914
01:54:17,240 --> 01:54:21,400
altar so that his Spirit takes
up a boat in you so that that

1915
01:54:21,400 --> 01:54:24,320
spirit can now guide you in
thought word indeed.

1916
01:54:24,800 --> 01:54:27,000
And if you keep your heart
broken, if you maintain

1917
01:54:27,360 --> 01:54:30,880
authentic abiding covenant
relationship with God, you'll be

1918
01:54:30,880 --> 01:54:33,920
fine.
Live the doctrine of Christ and

1919
01:54:33,920 --> 01:54:37,200
you'll you will follow wherever
He wants to lead you and

1920
01:54:37,200 --> 01:54:41,360
everything will be OK.
Beautiful you guys find yourself

1921
01:54:41,360 --> 01:54:43,600
that you're happier now than you
were before you.

1922
01:54:46,160 --> 01:54:48,320
We're, we know we made the right
choice.

1923
01:54:48,320 --> 01:54:56,960
So we're, we, we, we feel, we
feel God's approval, but it's a

1924
01:54:56,960 --> 01:54:59,160
very, it's a stressful time.
We had it really good in

1925
01:54:59,160 --> 01:55:02,640
Montana.
Life was very, very steady in,

1926
01:55:02,720 --> 01:55:07,120
in, in, in several different
ways, not just religious in

1927
01:55:07,120 --> 01:55:08,920
several different ways.
Life is a little bit more

1928
01:55:08,920 --> 01:55:11,400
difficult now, but but we're, we
are happy.

1929
01:55:12,320 --> 01:55:16,520
The Spirit is with us and and
the Lord assures us every day,

1930
01:55:17,080 --> 01:55:22,240
so I'll say that.
The Lord the Lord has given us

1931
01:55:22,240 --> 01:55:29,200
many examples in the scriptures
and church history where the

1932
01:55:29,200 --> 01:55:34,040
Lord or where where the people
experienced a lot of hardship

1933
01:55:34,040 --> 01:55:35,400
from trying to do what was
right.

1934
01:55:36,200 --> 01:55:41,120
Like we were just talking about
like with the with more of an

1935
01:55:41,120 --> 01:55:45,560
attack from the devil.
But like, you know, I'm not

1936
01:55:45,560 --> 01:55:48,600
saying we're going through what
job went through, but like,

1937
01:55:48,600 --> 01:55:50,320
because that's kind of the
extreme.

1938
01:55:50,520 --> 01:55:56,760
But like there are many examples
where when they when they really

1939
01:55:56,760 --> 01:56:00,720
tried focusing on doing what the
Lord wanted, the Lord allowed a

1940
01:56:00,720 --> 01:56:02,880
lot of things to happen to test
them.

1941
01:56:03,800 --> 01:56:09,640
And that was, I'll say that that
was a paradigm shift that I had

1942
01:56:09,640 --> 01:56:17,040
to, that I had to realize when
all of this was happening and we

1943
01:56:17,040 --> 01:56:19,920
were moving and everything
because we moved down.

1944
01:56:20,200 --> 01:56:24,120
And I realized that in my mind,
I was like, we're doing what the

1945
01:56:24,120 --> 01:56:26,000
Lord told us.
We're going to move down here.

1946
01:56:26,240 --> 01:56:29,160
He's going to help us find like
the right group that we're

1947
01:56:29,160 --> 01:56:31,360
supposed to be with.
And everything is just going to

1948
01:56:31,360 --> 01:56:33,440
get better from here.
Right.

1949
01:56:34,840 --> 01:56:42,640
And, and when I realized that I
wasn't focused on the right

1950
01:56:42,640 --> 01:56:51,440
things with that approach, then
since then, it's been easier to

1951
01:56:51,960 --> 01:56:56,520
appreciate where we are and how
the Lord is teaching us because

1952
01:56:56,520 --> 01:56:59,160
everything he's doing is helping
us to move forward.

1953
01:56:59,720 --> 01:57:03,600
But maybe not in the way that I
thought the Lord would help us

1954
01:57:03,600 --> 01:57:10,360
to move forward.
That the, the, the plan that I

1955
01:57:10,360 --> 01:57:14,480
had in mind might have been
maybe very different from the

1956
01:57:14,480 --> 01:57:18,720
plan that the Lord has for us.
And that we just, and that we

1957
01:57:18,720 --> 01:57:23,800
have to learn to be humble.
And like he said, just put our

1958
01:57:23,800 --> 01:57:28,920
hearts on the altar and move
forward with what He has in

1959
01:57:28,920 --> 01:57:31,680
store for us, which will
ultimately lead us to being

1960
01:57:31,680 --> 01:57:37,680
happier and more prosperous than
than we could imagine with our

1961
01:57:37,680 --> 01:57:39,640
own plan.
Awesome.

1962
01:57:41,120 --> 01:57:44,960
Let me just say one more thing,
not to beat this dead, but in

1963
01:57:44,960 --> 01:57:49,120
that suite in the Hebrew
scriptures, there are three

1964
01:57:49,120 --> 01:57:53,760
spheres of holiness that sort of
map onto the temple, which is

1965
01:57:53,760 --> 01:57:57,200
like the outer court, the holy
place, and then the holy of

1966
01:57:57,200 --> 01:57:58,720
holies.
We have the same thing in in

1967
01:57:58,720 --> 01:58:01,160
Mormonism, celestial,
terrestrial, celestial.

1968
01:58:01,160 --> 01:58:06,000
Well, sometimes those spaces are
characterized as like your

1969
01:58:06,000 --> 01:58:10,040
comfort zone and then a
wilderness experience and then a

1970
01:58:10,040 --> 01:58:14,760
happy homecoming.
So we are very much in the the

1971
01:58:14,760 --> 01:58:17,600
wilderness or straight and
narrow path right now, if you

1972
01:58:17,600 --> 01:58:20,240
will.
Sure, you know, but you part of

1973
01:58:20,240 --> 01:58:22,960
it's awesome, part of it's it's
exciting.

1974
01:58:23,280 --> 01:58:27,800
I was going to say don't.
It's good to have goals.

1975
01:58:27,880 --> 01:58:31,200
You should have goals and you
should have a destination you're

1976
01:58:31,200 --> 01:58:34,080
aiming for.
But don't forget to enjoy the

1977
01:58:34,080 --> 01:58:36,520
process.
Don't forget to enjoy the

1978
01:58:36,520 --> 01:58:40,960
journey.
You guys are still learning a

1979
01:58:40,960 --> 01:58:42,280
lot.
I'm still learning a lot.

1980
01:58:42,280 --> 01:58:45,680
We're all still learning a lot.
But this is an awesome time.

1981
01:58:45,760 --> 01:58:50,760
Don't take it for granted.
Chew on it, experience it.

1982
01:58:51,600 --> 01:58:53,120
You guys are doing it the right
way.

1983
01:58:53,120 --> 01:58:56,600
You really are.
And and I'm, I'm super, super

1984
01:58:56,600 --> 01:58:58,880
excited to see see what the Lord
has for you.

1985
01:58:58,880 --> 01:59:03,280
I think you guys are awesome.
And yeah, you guys are great.

1986
01:59:03,920 --> 01:59:05,880
Right back at you.
We really hope to join you in

1987
01:59:05,880 --> 01:59:08,840
Missouri someday.
That's our, that's our hope so.

1988
01:59:08,840 --> 01:59:12,320
Yep, God willing, yeah.
We'll, we'll see.

1989
01:59:12,320 --> 01:59:14,920
We'll see how it goes.
So anything else you guys want

1990
01:59:14,920 --> 01:59:18,160
to say before we wrap up?
Just love you man, love what you

1991
01:59:18,160 --> 01:59:19,720
do and oh.
Thanks.

1992
01:59:19,720 --> 01:59:22,120
I appreciate that.
I I'm just a dude that talks

1993
01:59:22,120 --> 01:59:23,600
junk into a microphone.
That's all.

1994
01:59:25,200 --> 01:59:26,880
Awesome.
All right, we'll stick around

1995
01:59:26,880 --> 01:59:27,800
for 5 minutes.
All right.

1996
01:59:28,320 --> 01:59:29,320
You bet.
All right.

1997
01:59:29,440 --> 02:00:02,880
Bye everybody.
You're listening to the.

Episode #183:Following God With Nothing Held Back W/Elior & Haley Walker

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