Episode #35: Science With No Agenda, Exploring the Universal Model W/Russ Barlow

0:05 No matter what kind of society people live in those societies, have narratives the narratives that any society are group of spouses, our beliefs becomes the framework on how that Society or group functions and behaves. So let's look back at the pandemic. What was the narrative there? It was follow the science around the climate change debate. The Narrative has been the science is settled. It is from that starting point of those two narratives that Society has made its decisions concerning Public policy. So let's look at the outcomes in our society of operating within that narrative. In the case of covid, we had businesses lost. People isolated and children's development. Stunted in the case of climate change, we have had whole sectors of the energy production industry shutdown which is caused skyrocketing prices on almost everything. But what if the science that we follow isn't correct? What if the science really hasn't been settled? And spoiler alert.

1:05 The science is never seven. That's the whole point of science. Now as Mormons and Believers in the judeo Christian tradition, we've been taught that we can't comment on science because we believe in a God, but is Mormons and Believers, shouldn't we expect science to work seamlessly hand-in-hand with our religions? What if I told you it did on this episode I have on Russ Barlow Russell's a man who along with others has dedicated a good portion of his life to learning and studying science. The fruit of that study is the universal model. The universal model is a look at science without an agenda, it is based on evidence and experiments that test. The current scientific narrative. As I have looked at the universal model, it is hard to poke holes in what it teaches. When you approach the universal model from an honest perspective, what you find is that science and that the revealed word of God.

1:56 Did you walk seamlessly together? Throughout my conversation with rest, my mind was blown several times at what the universe Jamal not only teaches but how it teaches you to think. Now, I normally don't do this but you'll want to stick around and tune in a couple of weeks for a follow-up conversation with Russ, it's going to be epic. Also, for this episode, you're going to want to go to the website, Mormon Renegade.com, there you'll find the pictures we reference in this episode, as well as a code for 20% off, if you choose to buy the universal model, curriculum, all that's next on this episode of the Mormon Renegade podcast, So, I just want to take a moment to thank you. The Listener, when I started this podcast I wasn't sure if anyone would really listen.

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4:53 Welcome back to the Mormon Renegade podcast as always you can get ahold of me either by email at Mormon Renegade at gmail.com. You can also get a hold of me on Instagram and Twitter and getter under the handle. Mormon Renegade. Also we have a website up and that's Mormon Renegade.com, so go check that out. Well, Russ thanks for being here, man. I can't tell you how excited I am to talk to you. I'm glad to be here. Dave. It's kind of exciting. Yeah, so, you know, I have been to a couple different like Book of Mormon evidence conferences and I've always just kind of peeked in and heard different presentations on the universal model and I was always intrigued because I feel like it's science but yet it's it's not just science with with a religious twist, it's science.

5:50 It feels like true science. Like I've never I've never looked at things like that before and felt the spirit. I remember sitting through school as a kid and just hating geology and stuff. I remember I had to take a course in soils in college and man, I was like medieval torture was a lot more pleasant than soils class, it would have had to have been. So for the work you do, I think is just so tremendous Well, I have to tell you that it came about almost accidentally. Now, I'm always loved science when I was a kid. My mom dad gave me a telescope when I was probably 10 or 12 just a little teeny little 3-inch Tasco telescope and I froze.

6:38 My butt off outside in the middle of winter looking for stars and looking at at Saturn and Jupiter, but I didn't really have any formal teaching, there were no star parties. I got to go to, so it was just kind of all by myself. And so science has always been interesting but mostly in the area of stars and planets and things. And and what happened is in the 2000, economic downturn, I'm in the construction industry. And during that time as when the tech Bubble Burst and there was just kind of this crisis, and we thought we'd go out of business. And so in a moment of fear, I decided, oh no, I needed a college degree because nobody would hire me if I lost my job. And and I think that was the Lord actually making me afraid to send me to college.

7:29 And so I went and one of the courses that was required was a science course, with a lab. And I thought I'm not going to take a strong enemy. Even when I really love that, I'm going to take something different. I'm going to take a geology class and then because I couldn't stand the thought of going through a Humanities class. I convince the professor. To let me take concurrently 400-level archaeology class with my geology class, and so, because I was older, he figured, I probably had the stay with it enough to go. And so I took those two concurrently that just blew my doors off. I could not get enough because I was actually experiencing and seeing and understanding things but I had I knew nothing about the universal model yet.

8:21 But I was out on a field trip out to Red Rock State Park. And while we were there, this was a field trip that the professor, the lab Professor had organized, and she was explaining all these different things about sandstone. And then she asked us, this question is, how did the red and white Sandstone form and it's not in layers. It just kind of. Looks like somebody took a paintbrush and waved it over there is some white and red and I was pretty excited to hear how it Formed except she says we don't know we don't have no idea how it formed but in that moment, you know, people like call it Serendipity kind of in in some circles but for me that was the spirit.

9:04 The Holy Ghost saying you're going to know how this form and that was something I hurt you. You will know how this formed I was so excited, my poor wife because I went home and I said, honey, I got to start our study in sand and I don't know why but I'm I started collecting sand from everywhere around the world and just diving into this. It's funny. What we put our wives through, sometimes for us, like when I when I came, when I came home, when I had the prompting to do this podcast, now, this is my first go, right. I mean, I've I have zero experience to nothing as far as Communications. I remember, I came home with with a laptop and a microphone, my wife's like what are you gonna do with that? And I said I'm going to start a podcast and she just kind of looked at me and she's like, you know, really with some of the other Dia ideas.

9:57 You've had this one isn't too bad, right? This you've had worse ideas. So yeah, the the stuff we put our wives through when we when we tend to to start something new like this as always got to be somewhat entertaining from their point of view. Right. Well that that event and ice cream. So I spent about four years or so just going through the He'd Rat Race and gosh, I was frustrated because you really had no ability to question or ask questions especially if I believed in creation or God. I just wanted to talk to the science about you know really exploring it. Could we actually ask these questions and I was so irritated that they would put down every idea.

10:42 In fact I got so frustrated that the biology teacher I just set out to prove him wrong and prove this test wrong and it was and it was More of a. I was just, I just was frustrated, but I started to blend my Theology and other words, I literally started to think what the smart guys were saying, and taking what the Bible says. And that's, that's, that's what you're doing to your kind of shoving, their, it's called eisegesis, where you shoving your worldview into the Bible. And so I'm thinking about, you know, how did billions of years and evolution fit and what the scriptures were saying. And I began to imagine A pox of time rather than days. And I began to imagine planets that were with Dinosaurs out there somewhere being cobbled together to make this planet. And I think the lot of people in our Circle in the LDS Circle, kind of have that, they're trying to mix these things and put them together and I got to do that on. Maybe you could call it a professional scale for a while. What what does that do to your faith when you start trying to do that?

11:51 Well, it causes face crisis moment and you if you believe in your strong enough in your belief then you just think, okay, I don't know and it must have will make sense somewhere but if you don't really know for sure what your faith is I was older. So I was in my older years I'd already had a pretty solid foundation, but if I was a kid, there were lots of young people there. I would say, gosh, you know, that old story that's in the Bible, that's kind of it just a myth. It's the same as the Babylonian myth of the Gilgamesh, it's the same as the popol vuh myth. It's the same as the Native American stories about bears and coyotes spread and stars across the sky. So, these are creation myths, that are dismissed as meaningless and pointless.

12:39 And the Bible story would have to fit in that if you are just going to accept, what was being taught in school, my daughter right now is in college and It's been interesting to watch, because I feel like right now, the the college experience for someone to Faith is probably one of those who probably two maybe three things one is, is that if you go there and like you said you weren't strong, chances, are you're going to come out believing even less than when you went in. Well I would venture to say that today which is been 20 plus years since I went back today is is exponentially worse than it was. And I think you go in with a strong testimony you still lose your testimony.

13:32 You 90% of are 90% of the members of not just that the mainstream church but of all Divergent churches are going to lose their testimony. That are going to college right now and these numbers. These are known by the leadership of these different groups, like the leadership of the church. They know that there's a massive outflow of members and one of the biggest issues is science. Science is a conflict because science has replaced in the modern minds of the young people. They have more confidence in science. Yeah, but that's yeah. And, you know, the other option is that you go and you just shut up and you Say the things I tell, you know, you were kind of regurgitate the things they ask you to regurgitate. And what I've seen happen there is that you have, you all they've done is trained an individual to you. Keep your mouth shut about your faith. If you believe these crazy things, right, and I think that's one of the things that's so refreshing about the universal model, is that honest questioning still exist there. Because I don't think that there is I think there was a time when you went to school, whether that was just, you know, first through eighth grade or or on to college or whatever that it was more about teaching a person.

14:56 How to think not what to think. And I think that right now there's almost a militarism within especially College where you're going to tow that line if you want to get through. Well and I want to stay tonight, I want to stay focused more on the universal model, but one of my most powerful presentation in tations because what I believe I take history is also of great interest to me. And so when I take history and science, and I put it together with the Covenant that God made first with Adam and then, with Enoch and Noah. And so on, there is a, there's an amazing story line there. And I think it's actually a lot worse than simply telling them to shut up. I think when we send our kids to school today, we're literally sending them to the other church that, you know, the great and abominable church.

15:45 And Mind and I think and I've got, I've done a lot of research and I've got a pretty powerful presentation that I do on this. It is not a theory. It is literally you watch the step by step process of how they've torn down and literally set out to take our children and it's coincides with the restoration of the Gospel. It is a massive battle and when we send our kids to public school, we are literally sending them to the enemy school to be trained by the enemy. Me and think about this if you are going to have an if you want to have a school and you want to set it up, the first thing you want to do is get rid of what that enemy is going to teach.

16:26 And so what they've done is cut out the Bible and prayer, so you send them to school and they literally won't allow your own churches. Your own strength, they can't even use it. They have to be trained under the enemy. We might as well have sent Shadrach Meshach and Abednego over to Babylon to be trained as princes that happened and it's happening today but it's worse. You know, that's funny. You should say that because just just this last week, I read a excerpt from one of Brigham Young's talks where he said, he made it known. He's like, I'm not for government schools. Why would we send our kids to Babylon?

17:07 So schools? And so he definitely for saw this. So I think that's enough on the negativity part of the of it, right? I really want to focus like you were saying on the universal model because I feel like sometimes we can get dragged down by just complaining about something and I'm sick of hearing what people are against. I want to hear what people are four. And one of the things that that I am starting to understand is that, as Believers of all Stripes, whether you're a Mormon, a Mormon. Is whether you're a Baptist or a calvinist, whatever the case is, we're going to have to kind of start thinking out of the box a little bit. And I think one of those boxes that we have to think out of is the education box.

17:56 For sure, but I think that what we look at with science is not so much, a replacement of the education as an idea that we when we send our kids, whatever they do and they send them out into the world. We actually need to arm them with knowledge and with a way to get that knowledge, if they don't have it. So those two things are fundamentally important. You can't just go into the enemy school and know nothing and then just try it. Regurgitate what your parents our grandparents have said, and have no Foundation because you'll get neaten up and spit out. And so when we look at for example in the Bible we have to take what Genesis says and if we can honestly look at it from a scientific point of view to there's an amazing amount of information that's right there.

18:47 It's it's actually more scientifically true than you. Might imagine it describes the shape of the Earth It describes the original material, the earth is made of it describes, the placement of the stuff, and it's actually just in the first two chapters are. Literally books of information that are related to science, and that's what the universal model actually does. It's not a religious book and so it doesn't quote, the Bible, it doesn't say this is what the Bible said. Therefore this is It's a book based on science and it, it's It's arduously long and so you got to have some staying power to read all through the first volume is 800 pages. And it starts out by asking the questions and then Pages later it gives you the answers.

19:40 And so it's like how do you mean used to say it deems the author and he used to say imagine if you told your neighbor you're going to go out back and start exercising because tomorrow you're going to jump to the Moon. That's that's kind of how big the universal model is and I can attest to it because my first exposure to it, as I said, I had this. This experience at Red Rock, right? Well let me finish that story up and then bring it into the universal model. So Rob Meldrum is a good friend of mine. I've known him for many years long before he was doing his science. In his information about Book of Mormon geography, he actually was in the construction Suction industry as a window salesman and he worked with me, he and I would get together. We work in the day, he'd stay at my house at night and we talked all night and then later he moved to Utah and work for our company.

20:33 So we were really close friends for quite a while. And then we kind of diverged. And this is the same year that I went into college. He actually started doing research for Dean sessions as the researcher on the universal model. Hmm. And so for about four years, we have no contact with each other as I was learning the the universal model side and I'm learning the modern science side and then one day he calls and we have the most extraordinary experience that lasts a really long time and he tells me about Dean sessions who actually has made sandstone in his garage and I'm oh my word and I was ready to 3:00 in the morning. I was ready to get my car drive down to Phoenix for Dean was and I wanted to see this crotch lab that made sense. In stone.

21:25 We ended up arranging a meeting about three months later in Tucson at The Rock Show and went down there and it was it was mind-blowing the next year. And this is in 2005 is when we got together and Dean and Rod and I we took a 10-day scientific Excursion to mount st. Helens, to do some research there, and that it was just a whirlwind after that and within two years I was full-time editor. I'm not a professional editor. It was a calling it was unbelievably spiritual and Powerful when Dean and I both had an individual, but separate, I knew we had separate experiences that that both confirmed that was my job. That ended up being more than 20,000 hours invested in the editing because I would check every single reference. That being said, and my experience and training. In the science of, this gave me a very unique perspective because I, when I took science, I didn't Stop with just geology. I ended up taking chemistry and biology and Archeology environmental science.

22:30 I took every science class I could because it was just something was just I was on fire. And that gave me the ability to talk with biologists and geologists kind of in their language and, but it also gave me the ability to kind of hold Dean accountable for some of the things. Now, this is Dean's book and he's the author, he's the founder of the universal model and I'm grateful to him for what the work he's done and for his willingness to listen, but there are things in there. And I like to say this all the time, the universe of the model is true. Even if it's not correct and everything that it says, because it's made by math, it's not perfect. It's not like this Revelation that came down and boom, that's all there is to it.

23:18 It is a magnificent powerful example of how science should be conducted, get out their experiment, ask questions. And so hopefully this is the Catalyst to cause this next Generation that like you said, you couldn't hardly stand science but to want to do science because Is it's actually true. It's based on spiritual and scriptural events and So, that brings us up to the point that we're working on it. So as you're editing this book right you're kind of going through there and you've already been taught out of a University at any point because I'm going to share a story here in a second at any point.

24:05 Did you look and go why, you know, I feel like a lot of my time there was not, as valuable as it could have been had. I been out in the field with Dean That's that's interesting because I actually didn't feel that way. I was frustrated while I was in the school but when I got to working on the universal model, I was so grateful to have had that exposure. Okay. So there wasn't wasted time it was it allowed me to understand their thinking and it allowed me to understand being stinking so I could put it together and talking in terms of of the language that's correct. Or if he missed stated or didn't understand something, I was able to bring those two things together. So then I'm by no means, am I this expert? But I had a lot of formal training that allowed me to do that and I think that was a blessing now after that, once I was involved in the um, I really have a hard time with the Sciences themselves.

25:15 Now as I go through the books and do things because I know so much more that it's just a lot more difficult to just turn a blind eye to so much that's misstated or wrong. I don't know if I could even get through another class today. I don't know, I don't know. I'm a land surveyor by profession and I remember I surveyed for a couple of Summers and then I went to college to take courses in it. And I learned real quick that I was going to learn more by doing it. Then I was by sitting there and listening to someone tell me I was going to do it.

25:57 And I remember this was driven home by the gentleman who actually put me through school. He saw something in me and he was like, your kind of good at this. You should probably stick with it. Let me put you through school and I remember I came in one day after school, I'd always go by and his name was Doug and Doug. Was my father passed when I was 13 in a lot of ways. Doug willingly stepped up to fill that void. But I remember, I'd come in just irritated Russ. I'd be like they're telling me to do this and this and this. And he just said, You're going to have to play the game a little bit, but if I ever catch you doing that, yeah, I'm gonna break your legs, don't do that. So I remember feeling a certain amount of of chafing. If you will, I being out in the field versus when I was in school and that was the first time I made this, this startling Revelation that well, maybe just because they Wear Ties doesn't make them necessarily authorities on the subject, right?

26:57 And in our experience, talking with people that are in the professional, that have degrees, if you're a degreed geologist, it's doing field work. Like if you're a geotag or somebody that has the hands-on experience, we find that those people are hundred times more willing to listen because some of the things we propose are the Mysteries. They're not answered where we find absolute difficulty like just Just a complete stonewalling is when there are just a professor or there somebody that is the teacher and they're kind of trained on philosophy and theory and they've got all of that behind him but there's not as much fieldwork. That's a big huge difference in who's willing and has an open mind in his objective about these ideas versus who's not? So yeah, hands on.

27:52 I think it is not only a better way to learn but it's an open-minded way. Way to learn as well. Yeah. So let's get back to your story here a little bit. So as you're editing all this and and When I can only imagine the back-and-forth you and Dean must have had right? Because and correct me if I'm wrong here. The first thing I think about is is like the founders when they were hammering out the, the Constitution, right? All right. I'm guessing neither of you are weak individuals and so you're probably butting heads a little bit even lovingly, right? Sure. So Being deep is a driver personality and I think he has this his contrarian ability.

28:39 You know, this is mindset means he's questioning everything and that comes out pretty pretty caustic and in a lot of ways because he's just, you become, you become distrustful of any of these things because you've seen so much of it and so he's came out really - and people wouldn't really give him I'm serious suggestions on what to change because he was so bent on. This is the way it had to be and so that was something different with me as he actually listened. I was probably the only one that could basically tell him. We fall crop on this. And and he would listen and, and I say that with with a lot of respect because I got to see his notes and I got to see how he thought and he had, you know, for example, just one chapter chapter 5 is the Magma suitable Theory at 65 pages long.

29:35 But the, the work that the notebooks that went into it, we're like five or six big four inch notebooks, with Journal, articles, highlighted annotated and probably 10 books. And as we go along, I would buy every book that he had. I would get those. I would look at and read how his notations were and I was just blown away his ability to see it. But yet, when you saw it, it's true. What he was saying was true. And sometimes because of my mindset, I had a hard time and I would have to be patient. And that was something I had to learn with the Lord. As I had to be really patient and we might talk for two or three hours on a subject. And then finally it would click and it would be like maybe this patients needed to work on me for a while and then it would all of a sudden click and I'd know what he was trying to say and I've literacy, okay, Dina got to go now Booth, I'd get off the phone, get into that. And in start edit because I got it. And there were so many times where I couldn't understand, or it was just, I thought he was nuts and it just took take time and patience.

30:41 Incidentally, let me tell you a story. When I first started the first 65 Pages, took almost an entire year to edit and it's because I was learning not just about the science but I was also learning the spirit that I had to be in to do the editing. I literally had an experience that was similar to what Joseph Smith experienced when he had an argument with his wife, Emma, one time, and I had been sharp with my wife, and I had gone in there, and I could not the Lord would not, let me write even one single word, and it was just, it was like my hands were frozen. My mind was off until I finally got it. Through my thick skull that I needed to go make it right with my wife and my children.

31:28 And I had that's the reason it took me. Here is because I spent a year more or less being trained, how to listen to the spirit. And I couldn't have the influences of me being an honorary guy or, you know, being in that kind of a mindset and editing this book that to me, was one of the biggest testimonies of the truth that we were working with is because I couldn't do it. Unless I was absolutely of the mindset that I was willing to be an open open source with the Lord as much as possible. And I'm not saying I was that way all throughout the whole thing but I had to learn that. And so for that first year, I took almost the entire year off of work, just to focus and learn how to get in that kind of a mindset. you know, I think in some ways that makes a lot of sense for us because When when you're going about a book like that, that is attempting to tell true world history, right? I mean geology, how it was made.

32:37 I would think that you would have to be in the mindset to where you were humble enough to be able to take whatever, answer the Lord had for you or whatever, answer you and Dean came up with together and I suppose, I can only speak from my own experience. When when I'm fighting with someone, I tend to get pretty prideful, right. If your prideful, you're not going to be able to be teachable and you probably run into problems. So that actually makes a lot of sense. That's that, that experience. Ends a lot of credence to to probably the the importance of the work he did there with the universal mom. There were many other experiences along the way I want to read to you, a quote, this comes from John Taylor now, John Taylor, dedicated, the Logan Temple in 1844 1884. That's the only temporary dedicated and when he was there praying and Logan the night before he was asking the Lord, what he should do and how he should dedicate this. This Temple.

33:42 And this is the, this is the prayer from the first dedicatory prayer. Okay. So it's been rededicated but this you can still find this online but it says he said we deal. God, a few of, I creatures have built this house underneath that. It may be a house of order, a House of Prayer, a place acceptable to thee for the manifestation of thy will and the teaching and administration of ordinances. And the instruction of thy people and all principles of in, Science and intelligence pertaining to this life in the lives to come. And that was a pretty eye-opening thing. To imagine that the temples were being built for the teaching of scientific principles relating to the this life into the lives to come. So that puts it on a whole different level of what science means.

34:32 Right, science is the true way of how worlds are created and the endowment experience that Joseph instituted in Nauvoo. First started off with the creation. And so in the endowment, you go through and you learn the entire creation process. Now, today that's been kind of blended with modern, man's ideas philosophies about Earth, crashing together, and solar discs, and all those kind of things. So it's kind of that world's version mingled with the scriptures that tell us the story. But God means to tell us how to create worlds, And I think if you understand that, then the universal model becomes an eye-opening way of understanding, some of those creation processes that I personally think will eventually be taught in temples.

35:31 Wow, so as you guys are creating this book, that that will be known as the universal model. What is your hope for it? I mean, where do you want to do with it? Are you wanting to take it to two? Public schools and put it in there, and try to, you know, sell it as curriculum. What is this meant for something? As a supplement at home? What was the idea behind what this book was going to be? Well in the beginning the idea was just true science and so as I edited I was learning and then as I went through it because my edit process would involve me taking what he had and I would do such a massive edit, it was a complete rewrite.

36:15 Its it's not the kind of editor where you're just adding some punctuation some you know grammar here and there. It's a structural edit where it's a complete rewrite of the concepts, right? And then I would go through and then I would read it again edit a second time and then I would have my wife Coming. Read it aloud because I needed to see if the syntax and the flow and the Cadence of the words would would go, right. If she got stuck on anything that would tell me, oh, she's not understanding, I would fix that and then I would go through after I fixed it and reread it myself, one last time. So, by the time it got through had a minimum of five reads to get this ready and It was about truth. Well what happened is my wife started taking the pages. She would take these things and they would she would extract and be teaching our kids in their home school. And so she's teaching our kids from this science, that's not yet out to the public and they're growing up with this and being taught.

37:19 And then when the book finally came out and it's published and work, you know, we have the celebration and we're excited and and you know, and for the first few hundred books couple And or so books are sold. You know there's this this vibrant so we're going to change the world and professors are going to read this. And so you have that kind of exuberance and then reality starts to set in because you're not going to change this great and abominable institution of modern science that has tens of billions of dollars every year and has all of this history. That's not where it's going to be. And so my wife and I decided the real purpose to this is we have to change. Lives of the children of the up-and-coming.

38:00 We've got to give them the truth about the creation. And so we started workbooks, we made workbooks. That would take the curriculum. My wife was teaching and started creating those so that they would align with you, use the universal model as the sort of the source text. But then you could learn the learn it on a way, that's more reachable. Hmm, because it's a pretty big book. It's a it's you In earlier, it's 800 pages, in volume 1, and it's almost the same with, in volume 2. And so it's a slog for somebody unless they're really interested but it's so powerful that if you get through some of that and like if have to just read the pictures but it's a powerful text and we can jump into actually what's in it? Yeah, I guess your listeners are going to want to know what, okay.

38:55 We've been gabbing about all this stuff. What's your what's in and what's different? That's exactly where I was heading. Next is yet and we've kind of set the table. Now, let's dive into this beautiful steak, you've created. So, so here's one of the first things. It's probably the most important. And if you just get through the first 15 pages, and you don't do anything else, it'll be worth every penny of sent that you spent by it. And you can, you know, will give your listeners a discount at our to buy this and we want but I'm telling you the first 15 pages actually teach us how to ask questions. That is probably the most important thing. That we need to learn in our world. Today is how to ask the right questions and how to frame that question and the mindset that we should be in. That's such a big deal.

39:44 It's the preface of all of our workbooks. The first few pages. It's in volume, 1 and volume 2 as the introduction. And it's the question process. So let me just give that to you. Break it down, Great roughly. So all questions can basically be grouped into six categories of who, what where when why and how. Okay. I'll go through those slow in a minute. But of those six, you can group them into four groups, four of them are tangible. Things like, who? That's the person? What is it? The thing where is a place? And when is time, so we have time and date and location and person and object, right? Those are Knowledge Questions that give us knowledge how and why are intangible and their wisdom questions. Now, I realize that this is not a perfect thing, you can move them around a little bit.

40:41 Basically, the tangible questions. Now, think about this in the Garden of Eden, when Adam and Eve are told that they can partake and actually it's Adam is alone told this and then he tells it to his wife. But when he's told, You can eat them all the trees of the garden, the fruit of all the trees in the garden, except one. What was that one tree? It's the tree of knowledge. Now we have the clarifier of Good and Evil and that kind of diminishes what it really said, their truth or the tree is knowledge. Okay, you're right. You can take when you take that knowledge you're going to die. You're going to bring death into the into the world. Well later on. In both the New Testament, Paul gives us a partial The Declaration of what truth is but Joseph Smith received a revelation that gives us a clear definition when he says, truth is knowledge of things as they are as they weren't as they are to come.

41:39 So truth is knowledge. So what was that tree that they particular of knowledge? Which is true. So it's really the tree of truth, right? Right. And so what what that really breaks down to is that we need to learn the or knowledge And we need to learn about people about places about times, and about locations, as we learn the knowledge, the visceral staff about how things are made. And that then the Lord gives us the wisdom as to why. So for example, when Adam is told to sacrifice after he's kicked out of the Garden of Eden and he's told the sacrifice and the angel comes and says why do you offer sacrifice? He says I know not because he didn't have the wisdom as to why that sacrifice was necessary.

42:31 But he was told how Right, that's when, when Nephi builds this ship, he doesn't ask the Lord. How do I build a ship? He goes to the Lord and says, where do I find the or to make the tools? He asks a knowledge question and that's what we need to do. We need to be asking the Lord Knowledge Questions and those can be, for example, what does Sam look like or We're looking at the does not exist, or is it lava? What causes lava? Where does it does it happen? We know happens. For example, earthquakes happen mostly on the Pacific Ring of Fire and plate boundaries and we also know that at those locations, is where volcanoes, which is melted rock, where it shows up.

43:20 So why do we think that? That's only cause because of this molten stuff in the earth, it's the answers, is it is friction. For, so asking the knowledge questions, then the Lord can give it to us. He can give us the wisdom of why that matters, why? It's important that we know these things. So, that's kind of the gist of the first section. The introduction of the book is about How to answer, how to ask questions and then a little bit about how science how we got here. You know, the discoveries in the Dark Age of Science and you know that takes us to the first first chapter that. So those are the first first porch at the introductory chapters.

44:04 I think that's huge because you you expounded upon this idea of asking questions And I've often said, when you asked the right question, then he get the answer you want. I also had you get the right answer not just do what you want. It's right. Right the right answer. Yep, I remember I had a political science Professor once who said If I could, if we could get everyone to ask the right questions, there would be politicians who get real nervous, real fast, right? And I think, I think that that the same thing goes for the Sciences right? Is that you got to ask the right questions to get the right answers.

44:51 And if you don't know what you're even asking about then or why you're asking about it, I think it'd be hard to come up with those answers. It's actually it takes a little bit of time and effort to learn how to frame your questions properly because it's so often when something bad happens. We want to say, why is this happening to me, or how am I supposed to fix this problem? That's our immediate need your degree. Action is to ask the. How's and the whys rather than to reevaluate. I'm here. Where do I go next? What do I do? Who do I talk to write? These are things that can Then if we can just focus on getting the knowledge and putting things in order and working through it, then the wisdom will come. So knowledge and wisdom, huge, huge, huge. And there's actually called the learning process that it's laid out in the first few chapters of the um, Universal model. It actually lays out that learning process and it teaches something about the attitude to about questioning whether we're skeptical or partial or biased those things too, we need to learn to be objective.

46:01 Not. That means question. Everything with an open mind. Question with an open mind being objective about. What what's the options? What can we think about there? That's different or You know, just that in, in some ways, it's pretty revolutionary, right? Because I don't think that that what we're seeing now coming out is necessarily that idea of questioning with boldness, right. We're getting a lot of well, we've done the science for you now. It's your job to sit there and partake in all of this, that's happened before. And it really takes Those questions, you know, that you talked about out of the equation and as I understand it, the science is never really settled.

46:54 I mean, you're always questioning to some extent and that's good and healthy. Is it not, especially, especially Math and Science? Because we don't know. Now, ultimately God is the absolute truth and so there is an absolute truth in modern science. That's rejected entirely and not just the modern science but modern Ian is that there is this concept of not being able to be certain about anything, not know anything. And that's in philosophical circles, that's even taken to do I really exist or am I just a figment of my imagination and am I imagining that? I'm having this conversation with Dave in my mind and in reality, I'm nothing more than just that a figment of my imagination.

47:37 And so, that's kind of where it's gotten too. And, yeah, we've got to ask questions, but we've got to be objective. Here's a little tiny Twist on things. How many times have we thought to be critical thinkers? What does that really mean? What does it mean to be critical? The criticized, right? Right. And so, literally, our mindsets are being warped by this, this idea that we need to be critical and castigate things. And poked, you know, we do Need to be critical. We need to be objective and that's a whole that's literally a whole spiritual reversal of the outcome of what we're taught in schools. Not to be critical to, not be critical of others, not be critical of people's ideas, but to be objective, that's a pretty huge thing too.

48:29 Yeah, I'm just thinking here about what that would actually look like in practical application I suppose. If you're critical, you would look to poke holes in it. I suppose if your objective you'd say let's try that out and see what happens. Or let's extract what? Okay let's look at that objectively and say okay we've got this and this and this that makes sense and gay. I don't agree with that but I don't have to be critical thinking. I have to be objective about what it is. And it's it's truly a mindset shift. It's a way of saying, okay, whatever your ideology, you know, yours or that your neighbors, or whatever you do. I mean, I asked this question a lot of times when I start a presentation is, what do you know, that, you know is not or what do you believe that, you know, is not true? Think about that.

49:17 What do you believe Dave that you know is not true. Did I can continue to eat McDonald's and not gain weight. Yeah, but you are, you know, that's not true. I do. You don't believe that no one, right? I hope for that. But yeah, no, you're right. Yeah. The answer is nothing nothing? Yeah, I can't think of anything, right? I mean, if we were, if we were to do that, it would just be rational, okay? So now, let's get lets, you know, you and I because just of our life's experiences, We differ on something. I guarantee a something somewhere we differ.

49:57 Now if we think that you cannot be, I'm not wrong in any way, right? There's no matter what I am going to just I'm just going to be right and you're wrong. Okay. Well how do we? There's no advancement there. There's no reasoning. So the first thing we have to do is accept the possibility that something I believe might not be true. And that's being open-minded and that's being objective to listen and to understand and say, okay, let's objectively reason is out not critically. I'm not going to come at you and you're wrong because you know, this is what they say but I have to be objective and that's what I'm understanding the science and I'm looking at it objectively then that gives me the ability to open up possibilities that I would not have otherwise if I was just being critical about the um, Theory or Critical about even about modern science.

50:52 Let's not be critical. Let's be open. Minded even what do they see? Cuz we're looking at the same data, what are they seeing? And then let's look at it and say, all right and what do we see? How can we interpret that differently because we've got this knowledge But that also has to make the assumption that both parties are interested in the correct answer and not necessarily an expedient answer, right? If we're to become United, yes, but I don't have to have you agreeing to that for me to be open-minded. I can listen to you. Take what you have to say and I can open-mindedly or objectively consider that, and that's for me, right? Hopefully you will.

51:39 But if you don't that You know, I don't have to live or die on your decision. What I do is I am looking at the universal model and I'm saying objectively or if I'm open-minded about what it's saying, then I'm going to say, you know what, there's something in here. I don't agree with this, but this makes a lot of sense instead of being critical and just shutting the book and saying. Okay, we're done because it doesn't align with what modern science says. That's what modern science wants to do is shut the door. Don't want you to bring up creation. They don't want you to talk about something that's other than Evolution, they literally will cut you off at the, you know, they cut your legs right off.

52:21 You can't do it. They won't even allow it and have a discussion about it. And so if we can be objective and we can consider these things, You know, then then we can. I think we can. Come together in some kind of unity, right? It's great. What else is in the book? Well if the science itself. So the big thing is the Earth is a hot molten Earth according to modern science and the universal model says, it's water. Okay. So let's let's dive in a little bit about what modern science says. So in. Correct me if I'm wrong here because you, you are well-versed both in the Universal model. Model, as well as in, in, in modern science. So, to speak.

53:11 There's this idea that there is a molten core at the center of the earth, right? And that thing kind of spins as well, and then there's kind of crust and layers on top of that. Is that correct? That's right. Okay. So, let's, let's start with, where that idea came from. Okay, the late 1700s, this is during the Scottish Enlightenment, by the way, whenever you hear the word Enlightenment, that means is that Shifting from God to humanist, thinking. Okay, that I'm smart, you know, the intellect demands of Enlightenment thinking means, man is becoming smarter and he's replacing god with his own intellect. Anyway, during the Scottish Enlightenment. There's this guy named James Hutton.

53:51 He's an atheist who lives in Scotland in the late 1700s and he publishes his paper called theory of, geology and 1784 and the geologists accept. Pretty much his theories about the Earth. And he Is it was incalculably old and hot at its Center. He didn't have the makeup yet of the earth, so he publishes this but it kind of just falls on deaf ears and it goes away for about 40 years or so. And he dies and, and then a British geologist, Charles Lyell picks, that work up and publishes principles of geology. And when he does, he includes James Hutton's ideas about the Earth being incalculably old and he coined This term called uniformitarianism, meaning that we can.

54:41 We look at the way events are happening now, and they always happen that way. He completely discredit any catastrophism, which include the flood anyway, this book is published in January of 1830, so it's, it is the most important book in The Sciences that shifts the whole modern science Viewpoint that the Earth is incalculably old and eventually I will be billions, but we'll get to that later on. Okay, and it's hot at its core. It's so popular to repent it 12 times. The very next year, it's given as gift to Charles Darwin, is he gets on board? He's 23 years old, he gets on the board, the HMS Beagle, and it opens his mind to the Earth time which makes evolution possible. So this book published in 1830 is the moment that's that's when a hold modern science changes its ideas about the hot molten. It's that is incalculably old and so later on what we see in our textbooks today is that you've got a nickel iron core and it's surrounded by a molten.

55:51 It spins inside this kind of molten and then a go further out of a semi molten and then you've got the crust on it now you know that's that's a super simplified. Sure description and the crust is pretty thin. So crosses on average about 125,000 fee is thinner in the ocean thicker in the in the continents. But this crust is pretty thin and everything else does either molten or semi molten down to this core. Now why they think that is that the surface rocks are like granite's, the silicates, most common and they have a weight of 2.7 grams per cubic centimeter. What that means is it's kind of a lightweight, imagine lightweight, imagine picking up.

56:36 Piece of pumice for maybe a pine cone, right? And so, a pine cone has this much weight and then they think, well, the mass of the Earth must be this. And so we got to have something heavier in the middle to equal it all out. And so the pine cone is the lightweight stuff and then the solid log is the heavy stuff. Well, that heavy stuff is the nickel iron core. And so they've assumed that's how this has to be made up because they have to come up with something heavy enough to answer the way. Eight of the earth. And that's how they come up with the idea of a nickel iron core. Was there ever any pushback on this theology? On this Theory, I mean, did anyone ever say wait, let's slow our roll for a second. Let's, let's see if we can't experiment and the 1700s. There was a debate between a group called The pluta Nest. And the Neptune assists in the pollutant is believed that the Earth was a molten.

57:29 The middle that's James Hutton and his IDs and the other. The Neptune is believed that the earth was formed in water. Like the Bible says, So, for four years, that was, the accepted creation format, is that things were formed in water that Noah's flood flood created it all the way errs. That was pretty well accepted for hundreds of years and till this change. But there are some questions that could be answered that. They just couldn't satisfactory answer. And that is how granite's at the Cape of South Africa. Got shaped. They couldn't answer where the heat comes from, the powers, the volcanoes. So those things As they couldn't answer them, eventually fell to the idea that the Earth is a hot molten Planet because they saw lava and this is melted rock.

58:15 That's coming out of volcanoes has to come from somewhere and so they just assumed it must be this hot molten Earth that's coming up from underneath. So in the, in the volume 2 of the, um, there's a table that kind of talks about all the different ways that we as humans have determined the age of the Earth. The first The Bible, but then, we've been we've done Optical luminescence. We've looked at how long the Caesar there. We've looked at how the Earth must cool over periods of time, the orbital velocities of how a planet should slow down. So all these really complicated ways of doing it. And so, the 8 age of the Earth is swung from from thousands to trillions of years. And now it's kind of back at 4.54 billion years, that's the latest modern science.

59:06 I'll talk about how we think that a little bit but what they think is that the inside of the earth is radioactive and radioactivity is keeping the crust melted and keeping, not the cross, keeping the insides melted of the year. So it's radioactive that's on that but one of the questions we asked in the Universal model is if the inside of the earth is radioactive and lava comes out and flows out on the surface. Like we see pretty much anywhere you're in Idaho. Right. I think I'm in Utah now. Yeah. You talked a. So you've got the in southern Utah. And Delta, there's lava flows, and Idaho, there's a lot of ways. Lava flows everywhere, how many times have you seen a lava flow with a sign posted on it?

59:50 This is radioactive lava flow. Never, and that's a question. I was going to ask if it was if that core was radioactive and again, I'm not a physicist. So, but the half-life on, on radiations pretty long. Right, it depends on a specific product, but if its uranium then, yeah, it's 4.5 million, radioactive, uranium four and a half billion years. That's the half-life of carbon-14 is 5720 strontium, terrain, all these different, they have all these different half-lives, right? But the bottom line is, is that radioactive lava should be present if radioactivity is melting. The Rock.

1:00:34 But here's this kind of circular reasoning. That makes no sense. They say that melted rock, resets. The radioactive clock. So if melting The Rock destroys radioactivity, how does it stay Radioactive? And if it comes out on the surface, why is it not radioactive? If it was coming from a radioactive source Right, it makes no sense. Here's another question and then um, doesn't follow this later. Really that's a lot. We're kind of bouncing a little back-and-forth, but one of the discussions we have later on in the book is about.

1:01:14 Where do we find? Uranium ore. When we mine it? and we find it deep but if we find it on the surface, We find it on the surface. It's a decree, a hydrothermal Rock, which means it's found in thermal vents. Oh, I thought I thought you were talking about mining for oars I am talking about mining for or as uranium ores only found fairly when I say surface I'm not talking like laying on the surface. Okay. All right. You know in the first few hundred thousand or so feet of the earth. Okay. Okay I got you I got you But I was using a relatively different. Yeah.

1:01:57 Like you have surface and I apologize. No, it's okay. It's just, it's understanding one of the things we talked about in the um, as being clear about what we say. And, you know, we have to Define our terms and so we do we Define what magma means, we Define what lava means and we actually call intrusive lava. If it's melted rock, under the crust that extrusive if you see it because we know melted rock occurs but we call magma as You do Theory. That's not proven spot as if it's a fact, but it's not proven. But anyway, so, my point is, is that radioactive, uranium is the one that has this half-life of four and a half billion years. Radioactive, uranium is also heavy and so, that should be, this should have sunk down into the core of the Earth.

1:02:41 But we mined uranium clear up here on the surface in the vent and hydrothermal vents and then we process that. But when you go into a cave or somewhere that uranium exists, it's Not hot. In that cave, you can find geiger counter and there is radioactivity in there, but it's not hot, and so there's just conflict about radioactivity. I mean hot enough to melt the Earth and yet doesn't show up in the lava flows and then uranium's found here on the surface in a gold mine. Not hot and have had the proponents of modern science. Been able to explain those those contradictions if you will at all with any certainty.

1:03:31 I'm not that. I've seen they have a lot of theories, a lot of ideas but there's certain Most of its built on the acceptance of the theory that the Earth is a hot molten Planet. So they're starting with the with the answer already in mind and then trying to find supporting Evidence to to justify their preconceived notion that a fair assessment for sure. And it's been for 200 years that we've been taught this, right? It was disposed of geology came out. That was the textbook that was the source of the textbooks and so not just you but your parents and grandparents and great-grandparents were all taught that the Earth is a hot molten core and so you've just accepted it.

1:04:15 Nobody's really ever question it. About what the Earth is now. If we read the creation account in the Bible, it's pretty clear what it says that volume. I Chapter 1. Genesis 1:1 says, in the beginning, God created the Heaven and the Earth, and the Earth was without form and void. And God moved the spirit of God moved upon the face of the water. So, and then for 16 times, the word water is mentioned in the first few verses of scripture water is the The important element and so it should be pretty simple to say, let's go look. And then we go out and space and we look at planets and moons and and water is everywhere in the universe. And that's something they didn't know. For example, you've probably seen Hubble telescope pictures, right?

1:05:08 Everybody seems beautiful pictures. Well, just shortly after the Hubble they send up another satellite called, the Soho satellite was designed to go stare at Sun. And because they wanted to study the sun, when they sent it up there and they opened the hood, the lands it was blurry. Now, when they first sent the Hubble up, they had ground, the mirror, ground, the lens on the, on the Hubble, actually, ground the mirror wrong. And so it was out of focus and it was basically a billion dollar mistake. And so they came up with a solution that they actually created a corrective lens and then they sent the space. Shuttle up and they install the lens on the Hubble that returned it to functioning you know and that was like yeah who we saved the day right?

1:05:56 Well shortly afterwards. A Hubble problem, the Soho satellite was all so blurry and it was like just a double whammy that NASA had really just fumbled again. But in the process, the alignment Gyros things had been in the as they align the telescope directly with the sun, it actually cleared up and they realized that what was making it foggy was water vapor on the lands. Not Not the ground, not the winds ground wrong. What that means, is that a million miles out of space? There was water that was able to compensate just like, in your shower mirror. It compensated on the lens of this slow, liquid water. A million miles out in space.

1:06:46 Yeah, cuz I'm just trying to wrap my mind around that for a second because coming whether it's because of a movie or maybe something I was taught, I always thought that if there was water in space, It was supposed to freeze instantly, right? Exactly. Yeah. That's more than 300 degrees below zero but why it doesn't freeze is there's no pressure because there's no overlying atmosphere. Okay. And so, just like on, and on the earth at sea level, water will change from liquid to gas at. To at 100 degrees Celsius at sea level but as you go up in elevation than the temperature is lower and lower and lower so it'll turn to gas, you know, 97, 95, 94. So the higher you go, the more than it will turn to gas at a lower pressure and if you get out in space, there is no pressure and so that, that water can turn into a gas and then it condensated on the lens of that telescope of that. That satellite.

1:07:47 So there was another event that happened guy named Charles Townes, he invented what's called a major. Now, that was kind of the precursor to the laser, but the measure was a device to look out into space and actually, look at these Majors, he's Tsum signal emitters, and so they had time on the radio telescope, they proved their concept. And they said, well, we still have some time. What can we do? And we tuned it to the waterline because it was pretty close to what they were doing. They took two in the telescope and then they turned it to the Orion star Cloud. Now for those that don't know, the orions star cloud is one of the most beautiful things in the sky that you can see through a telescope.

1:08:28 It is, it is massively beautiful. It's considered the birthplace of stars and it is, it is fantastically beautiful. If, you know, take a minute Google up. Look at the Orion Nebula and you'll see how incredibly beautiful it is. So he turns the radio telescope to hear And all of a sudden the water line is so powerful that when they publish their article they said it must be raining in her eye on because you're so much water in there. I'm star cloud. Wow. Which again is something you don't hear, right? I mean, even now it's not something that's widely talked about, not at all.

1:09:13 Hmm. Now, let's go through the planet. This is from NASA. This is from space scientist, so it's not something that just, um, says, this is actually what they say is that there was water on Mercury, probably a trillion tons of water. There was a notion on Venus that covered the entire surface of Venus. One time. The Mars Hydro Valley has. It has a canyon that is that makes the Grand Canyon look like a tiny little creek and it's a hydro value called the Marvel Hydro Valley. Because they know the whole thing was shaped by water. Elon Musk said, one of the most important discoveries they, in the last 25 years, is the discovery that there's water ice on Mars, and it's actually extraordinarily.

1:10:01 There's an extraordinary amount of water ice on Mars at the poles, like 60%, So it's pretty high Jupiter has the atmospheres of Jupiter are water. Their Hydro atmosphere. Saturn has it the rings of Saturn or ice the moon, one of the moons around Saturn insulate us actually, has a hydro fountain that is spewing water out, hundreds and hundreds of miles into space and the Cassini spacecraft. When it looped around it, flew through it to see what it was and it's water. And so this moon is hydro, moon is literally spewing water out into space.

1:10:41 That's orbiting Saturn. So, all of these planets, and most of the moons are all water planets, water bodies, water Moon's, Hydro moves we call them in. The um-hmm seawater is like is everywhere. well, and now Okay, so I'm just thinking out loud here if that's NASA's finding. Now you have to say that it seems to be every other planet in our solar system is made up of water except ours. Well there you go. Now that is a good question to ask, why don't they ask that question?

1:11:21 He probably. Isn't it creates the problem that the Earth isn't a water Planet? If there is a water Planet, all of a sudden, the Bible starts having some Truth and we cannot have that. Yeah, let me ask you a question. Dave, where's the last place? You would imagine water. Last places in the whole, you know, everything that you've ever done, you mean on Earth or just anywhere. Yeah, anywhere. Well, we know it's all over space. Now we know that most of the planets are I would say that maybe some place with absolutely no water.

1:12:01 I'd say the Sahara. Have you give me? Can you let me share screen? Yeah, go to. You have to go do your security and allow me to share it. Okay, give me just one second here. Oh, I stink at this. And this is why edit rest right here. Security down the bottom and security. The top thing you should allow participants or something like that. Cam. I got participants up.

1:12:44 It's under the security tab. And it's I think it's the very top choice on the security tab that says, looking for the security tab in the very bottom right next to participants and stop video. Oh crap. There it is. Okay and it says lock meeting enable waiting room, hide profile pics. Share screen, allow me. There we go. Okay, all right. So what do you think of that? That's the Sun. And that's how much water is on the sun water on the Sun. This is the line that is mind-blowing can can, would you be opposed to sending just sending me a picture of this slide so I can include it in the show notes. Sure, I'll send that after we're done. Okay, right now, it's just a, it's a, it's kind of the layout of a slide show, so it's having on PowerPoint. I've got other, I'll get rid of these lines, you're good? Okay, so now I'm going to ask a real stupid question and your look, I warned you up front.

1:13:57 I wasn't a science guy to start, right? In some ways I'm still not, but I find myself getting more Curious. How does water not boil off and become Vapor on the Sun? Okay. Now you're asking some questions but you need that. You need to rephrase that question. You ask a, how question can you rephrase that at all? Your I'm going to give you that kind of put me on the hot seat for your audience. Right? How do you change that question to a knowledge question? Why doesn't know? I don't know.

1:14:38 Okay, I'm screwing this up and I know I'm screwing this up. Have some bear with me, but the thing is is everybody needs to realize that getting in this mindset doesn't just happen naturally have to take some time to think about that, right? And so you might ask so water is on the sun, right? What process would allow water to exist on the sun. Okay, all right, okay. And then you might. Well, let's talk about the Sun and some of the crazy things about the Sun. For example, the surface of the Sun is about 5,000 degrees Kelvin, but a million. If you go out here to this out the corona out here, you see my are it's a million degrees? How is it hotter away from the source? Josh it makes no sense.

1:15:30 See this is some of the things that we need to get people engaged in the science. Looking at different ways you know that you can actually and there's a YouTube you can look this up, you can actually being sound into water and create light sound in water, will create light Huh. So, what's the process for that? Well. Have you ever read? Where the Book of Mormon? Where Nephi is told by God? If he say to that mountain, be thou removed and it would write, or the brother of Jared said to the mountains, Aaron move and it was And if you read the book of Abraham, it says in the gods ordered the materials and they watched until they obeyed. and then Christ when he's on Earth, He commands the elements and they obey What's the force that Christ is using to cause the wind or the water who obey his voice? The priesthood?

1:16:42 It's a power though. It's a thing. It's not just some metaphysical ideology, right? He's literally controlling something, he's commanding something and that's responding the voice of his word is causing things to change, okay? Now the science behind that is beyond our reach, but the questions that we can ask about water on the sun, should cause us to ask other questions. Like is the sun really producing light because of radioactivity? Is it really a hydrogen Hydrogen burn?

1:17:23 Which is what they say. Two hydrogen atoms are being fused together to create deuterium or heavy hydrogen on its way to becoming helium. This is process that's happening. While, but I want to just kind of pause from the water to get away from the sun because, you know, I was kind of produces idea that you can see there's water everywhere, right? Right. Come back to this question right here, that water is in rocks, in all rocks, on the Earth. So we've gone through the solar system, we've got water on the planets, we've got water on the sun. We've got water in the star cloud in a Ryan. We've got water and Interstellar interest interest Stellar space between a million miles out.

1:18:11 So we've established that there's water everywhere. Then let's come back to earth and let's look at water in the rocks, on the Earth. That piece of obsidian right there has those too. That's a 10 mL shot glass. That's approximately how much water is in that rock and if that water were extracted, it would look like that. Pumice, whoa. So, is this something that we've always known that, you know, water was in obsidian, not at all? We know it now because if you heat the obsidian up, it will pop because the water when liquid water changes to a gas, it goes through that phase change it. Expands 1700 times.

1:19:05 So like one gallon of water, would expand a 1700 gallons of steam, okay? And it's an enormous amount of pressure that's built up in that process of changing. So when you have a campfire and you get some rocks and you put them around the campfire, and you'll notice sometimes they pop, right? That's because there's water in that rock. That's why it pops and once the water is evacuated. So if you heat that rock up slowly, then the water will migrate out and it will actually come out of that rock and then it won't pop once the waters out. But if the what if the rock is heated up with water in it, then it will pop.

1:19:46 Now obsidian will always pop because there's so much water in it. It's such a high and the water is trapped. In the molecular structure of the obsidian. I got to tell you the first thing that's coming to my mind is the story of Moses when he causes water to come out of a rock right? He strikes The Rock and it comes out and it and I'm thinking about other things like yeah if if this was If this, it's obviously true, right? Because you've done the, you've done the experiments, you've shown it to be true.

1:20:27 This idea of a water shortage, might not be a shortage at all. It may just be a an ability to look at the science to quote one of my favorite people. That's science to quote the to go get it out of maybe some places we hadn't thought of getting it. for, as a matter of fact, In our um workbook, we actually take the kids out and show them how they can prove. There's water and rock and I taken to a road cut over here. It's a, it's an area that's rhyolite which is kind of a bulk. It's a volcanic rock and we got about a softball sized. Rock, we had, we got 26, different samples of rock. This is our kids do this in their home school and they collected these rocks that we did an experiment. And we showed how much water is in. In that one rock literally did the experiment with the kids could see it.

1:21:28 Then we put that in now we don't have the ability to capture that water because you know, we're not we're not that sophisticated but we put it in the oven and we heat the rock up until the water evacuated heating it up at 500 degrees for two hours and we did all the steps. What we did is we collect all the Rocks. We scrubbed them all off and got all the dirt, so they're clean. And then we let him sit in the house for a full week, so they'd be dry and they'd be at the same temperature. Everything is at the same temperature. Right? And then we took the temperature, wait am twice. So we'd have an average of the two ways, put them in the oven. When it, we took them out. We let them sit there for a full 24 hours before we weighed them, so you'd be completely cool.

1:22:08 And then we tested them way to McGann and it had this one Rock. I'm going to see if I can find the picture here. I know I have close by And anyway, this one rock had the equivalent of about 10. You know, how we'll have like, half a shot glass in this softball sized. Rock it came out at crystalline Rock. If you extrapolated that to how much Mountain there was this little road cut there is there was more water trapped in the Rock than we had available in Lake. Mead and all the rivers up and down the whole entire day.

1:22:49 This is this is real science that we could. Find a way to do. And there's a guy actually, a guy named Mark Burr. Who owns, primary Water, Resources actually doesn't only, he's a partner in it and they're doing that they're looking for crystalline and they call it primary water because you're looking for water in not normal sources. He didn't know anything about the, um, until when he found out about it was like, mind-blowing because that was the science behind what they were trying to find, that they had detected So there is there are people out there that are taking this pretty serious. I was just thinking about starting another company and getting loaded like the oil company.

1:23:30 It's just with water but it's cold. Actually, we did a presentation to the Water Conservancy board in Iron County and Cedar City about three years ago to propose. This idea of it is so novel that they just couldn't get a referendum to have people say. Yeah, we'll go spend some money on this. Crazy new idea. What was? Okay, guy asked about this then I want to go to what the universal model has to say about the planet. But I'm fascinated with this idea of you giving this this presentation to a elected board right out there in Iron County.

1:24:14 Did they look at you like you're crazy. What was there? What was their take on it after you were done? Well, there were some there were some pretty serious interest because we didn't just Theory, we had actually gone out and done some seismic profiles in check Shawnee cliffs in Iron County where we marked were actually set up. These little seismic things are they would, they would read this. There's another company in in Utah called Willow stick and they trace groundwater using electrical currents and the Magnetic invest signature on water and they would, they're kind of primary model is to detect.

1:24:58 Leakage before dams fail, right? That's that's a general, they probably do more than that, but I know that's one of their big things, right? Well, a couple of their guys have actually gone on my tours that I take to the Grand Canyon and talk about this. They are absolutely thinking. This is, this is cool science and it's they've got they know it because they done some of their own detection about how water is moving through the Earth and, you know, so there are little inroads, but like I say, never with theory side, In this, in the college's, only with the technical side that are involved in the knowing and the doing and they see the possibility of this. Gotcha, gotcha.

1:25:39 Alright. Now, let's we've talked a little bit about what modern science says. The earth is made out of. We then went back and said okay. But let's look at all the other planets out in space and then let's just look at space itself and how water con-con descends on on Satellites, what's the universal models? What does it have to say about what the Earth is? What it's made out of. So, the Earth is formed. It's a water Planet. It's a hydro planet. And so, is there a core then? Or is it just all water?

1:26:19 Well, let me, let me just show you this right here. I'll share this screen again. Okay, so that's kind of the textbook view of what the earth looks like. Right? The solid inner credible, outer core. We talked about that, right? This is what the universal model proposes is that. It's some kind of a solid ice. Now we have not seen the center and neither have a nobody has. So all we know is that we can look at the same data, we know that there is a liquid core in the earth. Something's liquid because the pressure wave from earthquakes, don't penetrate the Core. And that's the thing is that when you have an earthquake that happens up here on this side and sends a Shockwave all around the earth. Well, when it hits this liquid core, it doesn't go through it, it can, it can deflect around it but it doesn't go through it as a certain wage.

1:27:11 Don't go through the water through the liquid. They think the liquid is molten rock. We think the liquid is water. So we just know that it's liquid. We also know that the plates are floating on something. Right and the plates. I don't have that slide in this show. I've done these a lot of these. I'm kind of, I've been bouncing around trying to find ones that I can show you but I don't have the one to show the seismic tomography which is a way it's basically like the ultrasound for the Earth and seismic tomography will take a look and it'll take like a slice through this part of them, the Earth and it looks at the profile of the temperature and they know the temperature based on the Sound waves that are passing through stuff, right?

1:27:57 And it turns out that the hotter areas are always around the fault zones like this Pacific ring of fire that comes up here in this model that is Created from the universal model. You see kind of that blue area yep that blue area is the cooler parts. The red is really this is actually modeled after what the seismic tomography shows huh and so it's actually hotter at the surface than it is down from what we can see. See. Now, there have been other experiments that have proven this out. For example, the two deepest bore holes in the world. One of them is in Germany and the others in Russia and the Russian the Kola super-deep. Borehole is like 25,000 feet thick down.

1:28:40 Okay, so they drilled this hole and the reason that they couldn't go any further as it started to get too hot and you might think on the surface so that proves that the Earth is melting at its core. But you got to realize that you're 4,000 miles to the center of the earth and they were only about five miles deep, right? Okay, so they're not that deep at all and how is it possible? That it could be that hot? If it was this hot as that thermal gradient was showing, it would be considerably hotter than the surface of the Sun downing's. I beers there's no account for how that could be, how much, how it can be that hot. And so they kind of missed that point altogether.

1:29:22 They just simply don't know how it got hot but they had a clue when they were drilling during a time. It was quiet was on Christmas day. There was an earthquake and all of a sudden there was an anomalous, heat Spike and it happened, right? Exactly. Where there's a fault line. What is that telling them? They did not get this. That the fault line is the source of the heat, the friction, from the, you know just like you rub your hands if you rub your hands together, you can produce Deuce about right pounds of pressure. Well if you move 10,000 feet of rock then you're producing enough pressure to melt rock. I'm Yuki all I have to do is move it 1. Mm. And it's produced enough heat to melt rock. At 10,000 feet of rock and this is 25,000 feet down, right? So, right here in an area where movement Rock movement and then you might say, okay, if Rock movement does it, is there any time on the earth to rocks are moving? Well, have you ever been to the ocean and seen the ocean tides? Yep, the same things happening on the earth. The earth is experiencing Earth Tides. The Earth is going up and down about 8 inches or so, average, twice a day.

1:30:32 So, as the Earth is, Earth's crust is going up and down. It's so subtle that you don't feel it or see it but it's going up and down every day and it's creating heat because of the frictional movement of that all that Rock movie, there's an enormous amount of latent heat that's built up without any earthquakes just simply because the Earth is moving. I can I can attest to that because as a surveyor we use GPS and we have to have certain, we call them geoids and they help too. Kind of take out some of that wiggle so to speak. Exactly. Because if it's it's not that big of a deal eight inches in that big of a deal until you're trying to be precise on a on a survey, right? And you know, and it wants to get down to the, you know, the fraction of an inch.

1:31:22 And so they kind of take you talk about. I'm sure you've heard this all the time. You have these geodesic survey marker points and they're supposedly these fixed points but they're not. They actually there has to be To be a little bit of an algorithm built in to be able to because it's moving. The Earth is constantly moving little, tiny bits. Well, sometimes little tiny bits. I mean, you can go to Yellowstone and Survey markers you've put in there, will get pushed all the way out. The same with Alaska, Alaska has the same effect only because of the permafrost and that sort of thing, it'll it'll push great big Iron pipes right out of the ground.

1:32:03 Yeah, that's so fascinating, isn't it? And that's because the Earth itself is an oblate spheroid. In other words, it's like egg shaped and in what shaping that is the moon, as it's going around the earth, it's kind of dragging the Earth with it, as it does that, it causes the Earth's crust to flex and when that does it heats the Heats the Earth crust up? And so go ahead, one of the one of the things that comes that not only are you building up heat but you're building up electricity. Right. How's that? For cool, so let me ask you this, if If the Earth is heating up, 8 inches up, and down every day.

1:32:44 Why don't we experience? And I'm just for you, forgive the question. I, my simple mind here. Why aren't we seeing more cracks in concrete? Why aren't we seeing more cracks in the asphalt? Well, because eight inches is in the scheme of things, 8 inches is nothing. It's so small that it was undetected for hundreds of years. They only barely detected that in the last 20 years, okay? So it's so slight. That even the seismometers don't pick up that movement and it was just because there was a, some anomalous recording from GPS satellites and said something's going on here. Something's moving.

1:33:25 And then they began to look at it but it's so slight that Unless you actually were looking for you just you would it would be imperceptible. That's so that's, that's why you know, if they're if it builds up or pressure builds up and this slight movement is constantly just adding pressure and eventually that pressure builds up to the point where he something's going to move. There's a buildup in it and that could be build up heat or and then you know things can get lubricated. So in other words, there's friction that's holding. Everything still on. Until something happens. And that could be a little teeny bit of melted rock, decompression, all expansion water, anything can happen. And then a little tiny bit of lubricant, makes the the point slide.

1:34:12 And then that's when you do, have the cracks of the earthquakes. And that's when you can actually have earthquakes. That are small enough, not to be detected but they will crack no crack sidewalks. And their yeah, yeah, gotcha. Okay. Nope, that makes sense. I have to kind of think of the Earth as a living breathing entity because it literally is expanding and Contracting. And in the last chapter of volume one, we actually talked about how much that affects whether we've been taught that the sun is the only major heat source of the of the weather driving weather systems and they completely overlooked the Earth because they don't see this movement. They don't see the frictional frictional, heat that's being built up because of the movement of the celestial. He's the Sun and the Moon.

1:35:01 And so, what we can do now with weather, as we can predict things that happen days in advance because we can see the movement of a higher low pressure. We can see the oscillation of the polar vortex. We can predict the LA Nina's and Almeida, yo weather patterns, because of the temperature of the ocean water, but we can't tell you what makes a high pressure Zone. We can't tell you why a low pressure forms. We can tell you what happens when it does, you know? Like A thousand things probably can't tell you what actually makes it form. And so, for example, Las Vegas is constantly sets underneath this. High pressure Zone that gives us about on the average 320, or so days of clear whether a year clear and own, and I love being here for astronomy standpoint because almost every single night, no matter what the sky clears up, because we're under a high pressure Zone that high pressure zones being created because the Earth is breathing right here.

1:35:59 Fault lines that are part of the whole Black Canyon Lake Mead area. These are outgassing in the winter time, we see that is as the gypsum being pushed up through the soil, it's literally pushing this out. This constant migration of salts up through the surface is because of the out pressure, that's being generated as creating a high pressure Zone here. And so that's why we always have one. They don't know that they never talk about that, they just know that where it's comes and they can predict its movement and so we've got tons and tons of data to know what happens and where things are going. But nobody can tell you how it's forming and it's because we're not studying the water Planet as a water planet. Okay, let me ask you another question again. Simple simple mind here.

1:36:50 What about global warming is one, is it really happening to are we doing it? Or is this a product of the Earth's natural as you were saying friction? Well that's a pretty loaded subject. So let me answer it in a couple of ways, okay? Everyone if we just look at the data, we see the same thing, everybody else does and what do we see? We see that temperatures on average are rising. We see that storm. Are increasing and ferocity. And in frequency, we are seeing things like the Mississippi River, Running dry, and we see these kind of things.

1:37:33 But what we also see is that this is a cyclical process that has happened for hundreds of thousands of years. So in in, in one way, In the 1970s is just 50 years ago, the whole fear was global cooling and the Earth was going to was on its way into the next ice age. And that's because you know, everything was getting cold and now all of a sudden we've swung the other way. And so we've reached the point where our Insanity has brought us to where we think cow farts are creating this problem and this is just it's absurd right now. One single volcanic, eruption puts more CO2 in the air than all. Of the cars on in the United States driving for a full year. And then here's the other, if you think it's just follow the money.

1:38:22 If you think about the great lie of electric cars, right? And I'm sure that you've already explored this idea. First of all, we spend enormous amounts of resources and energy to produce the oars and the in the iron, and the lithium and all the Rare Earth elements to make batteries. And then we still have to build coal-fired or oil fired power, plants to produce electricity to charge them. and even if we want to go green and we have The windmills doing it. Every windmill takes a 55 gallon drum of oil to lubricate it on a regular basis. And so in the whole building of it fiberglass structure in the steel structure requires enormous amounts of electrical energy generated by Regular traditional methods, I hate to use the word fossil fuel, you know that that whole concept came because Rockefeller wanted to create an idea of scarcity, right?

1:39:22 Literally marketed it as a fossil fuel to make it seem like oh, there were dinosaurs but fossil fuels a false narrative. It came from microbial things that happened mostly during the flood, but there is an abundance of oil. And so it's just it's a it's a scarcity lie that think that that's the that's the answer. We've already proven that we can scrub the emissions from coal-fired power plants and from oil oil fired power. Plants to clean the air. We already know that we can do that. So it's just, it's a total false narrative to think that we have to go. Supposedly Green in reality that's just about shifting money.

1:40:08 Yeah. Yeah. No I and and the, the quote you made about the volcanoes was the one I was going to bring up, right? As, as I kind of just did my cursor. Airy, you know, in looking at it, right? And again, I've obviously proven on this podcast. I'm not sure if it's tool in the shed. But in so if a guy like me can look and see, hey there's more CO2, coming out of one eruption than anything man is ever made. It just doesn't seem to hold water that in 100 Years of since the Industrial Revolution that we've managed to screw it up as bad as what they say. We have So I want to before you cut me off here, and I know you're getting close to doing that. I want to kind of set the stage for part two of this Universal model.

1:41:00 Okay. Okay we've talked about how water is in rocks and how you know, what what that really means, but I want to share with something with you again. I'm going to put the screen back up here. This is actually an experiment where we performed where we took this Court's right here. You see this as before growing? Yeah, in 24 hours. This is what that quartz crystal look like, wow. Okay, so this is a one-day growth, this is another version of that. And so we've learned how to make quartz crystals. We've learned how to make Sam Stone. And then when we start asking questions about what is a fossil, a fossil is a rock that started out as wood or as bone and then was replaced with silica and modern science thinks that takes 65 million years or. So we've produced petrified wood. In two days, whoo-hoo.

1:42:02 This is this is like one experiment that changes, the world, bone, silicified phones, and be created really fast because correct me if I'm wrong that kind of starts to upset the idea of carbon dating as well. Right? Well, carbon dating, we talked a little bit about that for just a moment. So, carbon dating means that you date radioactive carbon, which is carbon 14. Now, the most common carbon is just regular ER carbon-12. That's when you have carbon 12 and your body carbon dioxide. When you exhale, it Limestone has carbonate. The carbon molecules in it. Your car produces hydrocarbon fuels produce you know some carbons like get everything.

1:42:45 All living things have carbon. We're carbon-based life-forms. You've heard that probably right? Yeah, so carbon is throughout the whole system. Well, a tiny fraction of the carbon we're talking about less than a percent is carbon 14, which is Stable and so carbon-14 it isn't stable and is eventually going to break down and the concept of Half-Life means that if I start out with a pound of stuff in a certain amount of time, I'm going to have half a pound. How long does it take that pound to become half a pound? Or how long does it take this unstable carbon-14 to break down into its daughter? Elements of? I don't remember.

1:43:26 Actually, what they are right now but into the daughter elements, that's not carbon-14, right? So carbon teen is a dating method that they know that 5720 years is the half-life of carbon-14 So, the first thing you have to do is make an assumption about how carbon-14 is actually created, and then you have to make an assumption of how much carbon 14 was in the system a long time ago because none of us were around more than 5,700, 20 years ago, right? So we have to extrapolate that and especially if you go back, half another another another, you know, three four five versions of 5720 years, And it becomes this incrementally impossible, small amount. It's do most non-existent.

1:44:12 Right? So the whole idea of carbon-14 is your dating, this tiny amount of carbon and you're trying to extrapolate its date. But in volume 2, we actually did. We have an article in there by a woman who dated to Radice Norway, rat, Norway rats, right? They were euthanized some of their living captured in the same general area. They were euthanized. And they send them off to two different labs to get carbon dating when they came back. One of them was about sixteen. Hundred years old. The other one died, 280 years in the future. Okay, so sorry these are rats that they genetic analysis to know that they were like in the same kind of family the same, you know, maybe brother sister.

1:45:03 I don't know that they send these up and Because the answer was so strange. It was in a published Journal article. It wasn't just some person saying it was in the actually the journal science Dean actually wrote to the lady and said is this real and she says well yes it's a peer-reviewed article, it's real. And so what she did is he says, oh, that tells us about something about what they ate. So the Carbon 14 dating isn't really that accurate, but there can be uses for it because it's a relative dating system. Which means if we have other things, that we can corroborate it too and they call that calibrating the radiometric clock, right?

1:45:49 This is there are sometimes where that's a useful tool because there is no, no. There's other known things that you can date to. So if you do have Like maybe some some leftover some a dash from a fire pit or a tree or some other thing. That's carbon still has to be carbon-based. Then maybe you can update a proximate dating but as to the idea that you can create something more than more than twenty or thirty thousand years old is just completely silly to think that. So carbon when a rock when a log turns into a piece of petrified wood, there's no carbon in it. So fossils can not be dated directly by any radiometric. Dating fossils can never be dated doesn't matter if it's a dinosaur bone petrified, tree shark-tooth. They cannot be dated so they can only infer the dating by the layer that it's found in.

1:46:44 And you also can't date sedimentary rock, because sedimentary rock is other rock, it just been laid in. You don't know how old that are when that happened. So, 100% of all dinosaur. Bones are always found in flood type sediment And you can't date those. You can't date the bone or the sentiment so you have to infer it by some well way over there. There was a volcanic eruption or over here. So there's things that they do but they're always infirmed and never can you carbon-date a dinosaur bone or petrified wood? Wow. While I've often wondered about that because they they always go back to that with a certain level of with the level of certainty that allows them to have like an authority position.

1:47:34 And I've often wondered, you know, it is that, is it really that reliable? It doesn't sound like it is. No, I think I think like, I say there is relative things that you can use, for example, if you're trying to date and you're trying to figure out and where somebody lived in Mississippi and you're looking, you know, where did they live with a older than this one than this one? I think there's some value in that. But when you start applying right radiometric, dating to other things like the Hawaiian islands, for example, or to meteorites. You know, we come up with the Earth being 4.5 billion years old because they study, the Arizona crater, I don't think we should get into that tonight. We can do this on a part 2 because that's a whole story in itself.

1:48:23 Yeah, the Arizona meteor crater, is not really caused by a meteorite, but it's the study of that crater that created the data 4.5 billion years old because they teased some lead I see. Eat oats that they assumed had for the daughter products of radioactive uranium. Wow. So it's a It's just fascinating to me to think how we literally built this whole system out of nothing. And modern science believe basically, that's what the big bang is. The Big Bang is a universe that came from nothing, right? So not only does their theory of creation come from nothing but the foundation of what they teach is really that great and spacious building that has no foundations floating in the air, they have no foundation for For so much of what they're putting out there. It's built on somebody's ideas, some generations ago, and nobody questions those fundamentals.

1:49:20 And when you do, you basically get mocked and scoffed at chip. Yeah, no, you're 100% right. Russ. We've done. Almost two hours here. Big guy. Is there anything you wanted to go over right now before we schedule a part 2? You know, the thing I want to encourage people more than anything is most of us. I think most of your listeners are probably they've grown up with a Bible, probably somewhere nearby and we've looked at the Bible as if it is just a text to talk about some religion and we not really given it, the Credence as an actual history book.

1:50:01 But I have to tell you that. I have learned in my studies and everything is that the first probably 12 Chapters of Genesis are the most important book of scripture that we have and we all should read it. I particularly like the translation that Joseph Smith did the inspired version but we should all read those first twelve chapters because our entire Theology and all of science can be revealed in those chapters. That's a pretty bold statement to you. And I think we, if we will spend the time to truly understand that, it's a magnificent book of enormous. Value and I just want to kind of lead maybe with my testimony that the Bible especially the Book of Genesis is is should be the foundation of our learning and should be the foundation of what we do.

1:50:52 Not to take our worldview of and shove it in but to take what it says and then go out and learn the science. And truly do the experiments to see how magnificent that single book is and how important it is in our life. That's beautiful. All right. If someone wants to grab the universal model, where do they go going to True? Seekers? Foundation.com, I'll get you a link. We have a landing page. I think it's um, science but I'll get you a landing page and when I send that picture over to you, okay, I'll I'll include the link on there but through speakers foundation.com is kind of all of our stuff. Our tours are books or workbooks.

1:51:34 And then, maybe next time, we can kind of jump into a little bit You have a of the workbook and how to bring that into geography. And in your own body, we will talk about the life in the human body and how we have the universal model is a way of teaching to your kids. The truth about how their bodies are functioning and what's going on inside their bodies? Is that sounds awesome? I can't wait stick around because I want to get you scheduled before you leave. All right? Yeah. All right Russ. You're awesome. That Was awesome, YouTube guy who hates science and I couldn't stop asking questions. So that's if you never do anything else, you can say, I think I taught Dave Sanders something and somewhere.

1:52:18 They'll be a science. Teacher completely irritated that I had in high school. So good for you man. All right, by everybody.