Episode #213: Christian Nationalism Part 2-An Examination Of Its Ideology & Compared With Mormon Doctrine W/Justin Francom

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The.
You're listening to the Mormon

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renegade.
Podcast, OK, we've got to talk

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about this, right?
God, you follow Christian

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nationalism and you apply that
back to Jesus as a day.

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You're killing Jesus and his
apostles as soon as they eat the

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corn on on the Sabbath.
Yeah, yeah.

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But that's.
Talking about it.

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But that's OK because it it
because, you know, we've got

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these stories in in the Old
Testament.

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So so Protestants believe in
this thing called Sola

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scriptura, right?
They have this view of the Bible

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that says it is inerrant.
And the, the, the Calvinists

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particularly have this idea that
you can find that they the Bible

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has the answers to every
question.

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Now, I love that approach, but I
think you can take it to an

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extreme as well, right.
So what do we believe as Mormons

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about the Bible?
That is true and translate.

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You know it's true, and as far
as it's translated correctly per

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Joseph Smith.
In as far as it's translated

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correctly.
And so I'll be honest, I have, I

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do have issues with some of the
stuff that I have found in the

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Old Testament.
Some of these laws like this one

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of, of taking children to be
executed for disobedience to the

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parents.
I don't, I don't see a, a very

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good explanation for how that
can be the same God that sends

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his Son Jesus Christ to teach
what he taught.

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And I think that that's a very,
we don't know the specifics,

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right.
But I think this idea of that

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maybe, maybe the Old Testament
and New Testament aren't the

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most reliable things in the
world.

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That's kind of a Mormonism.
I think that really is kind of

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one of one of our core tenants.
And in fact, I, I wanted to go

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to the scriptures on this
because interestingly enough,

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and I, I wanted to maybe do some
more scripture stuff later.

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But we have this whole story
playing out here in the Book of

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Mormon in first Nephi chapter
13.

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We've got Nephi and he's having
that vision that his father had,

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right?
And he's being guided around by

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an Angel and he's seeing
everything he sees.

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He sees Christ's ministry and he
sees our days.

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And in the process of that, in
chapter 13, it says in verse 10

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And it came to pass that I
looked and beheld many waters,

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and they divided the Gentiles
from the seed of my brethren.

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And it came to pass that the
Angel said unto me, Behold, the

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wrath of God is upon the seed of
thy brethren.

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The brethren there would be the
the Lamanites, the Indians.

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And I looked and beheld a man
among the Gentiles, who was

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separated from the seed of my
brethren by the many waters.

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And I beheld this, that the
Spirit of God, that it came down

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and wrought upon the man, and he
went forth upon many waters,

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even unto the seed of my
brethren who were in the

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promised land.
Who is this?

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It's, it's Columbus, right,
Right.

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Yeah.
The spirit falls upon him and he

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gets and he has this
inspiration.

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He wants to go, and he finds the
promised land.

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And it came to pass that I
beheld the Spirit of God that it

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wrought upon other Gentiles, and
they went forth out of captivity

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upon many waters.
Who are these guys?

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That would be the.
Pilgrims and the Puritans.

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Right, right.
So I mean, this is, this is a

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good thing to review anyways,
right, 'cause we were just

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talking about, or you were just
talking about, you know, the,

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the Puritans and the, the
pilgrims, right, and the

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separatists the other day.
So let's see what the Book of

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Mormon has to say about them.
And I looked, and beheld a man

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among the Oh wait, bronze spot
14 And it came to pass that I

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beheld many multitudes of the
Gentiles upon the land of

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promise.
And I beheld the wrath of God

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that it was upon the seed of my
brethren, and they were

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scattered before the Gentiles
and were smitten.

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Sorry, Mitiga.
Daddies were funny, but.

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Sorry, I couldn't help myself.
Look at that, at that, if you.

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Need to.
I think I might just leave that

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in unless you really want me to
take it out.

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All right, so yeah, what, what
the, the, the, the Indians were

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naughty, right?
And God is letting the Gentiles

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scatter them.
And I beheld the Spirit of the

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Lord that it was upon the
Gentiles, and they did prosper

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and obtain the land for their
inheritance.

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And I beheld that they were
white, and extremely fair and

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beautiful, and they were like
unto my people before they were

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slain.
So these are the these are the

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English people, right, the
pilgrims, the Puritans.

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And it came to pass that I,
Nephi, beheld that the Gentiles

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who had gone forth out of
captivity did humble themselves

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before the Lord, and the power
of the Lord was with them.

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Whine on, right?
We just, we just heard about

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these miracles.
Right.

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And I beheld that their mother
Gentiles were gathered together

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upon the waters and upon the
land also to battle against

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them.
Now we're into the Revolutionary

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War and I.
Shall be able to withstand 1000

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of our enemies.
Right, Right.

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Yeah.
It's just so amazing how

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prophetic that time was, right?
I mean, the people in that day

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were prophets, you know, maybe
lowercase P but nonetheless,

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honestly, I'd almost even say
maybe uppercase Pi mean some

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amazing people came in that time
of history.

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Absolutely a a time of many
great prophets.

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And I beheld that the power of
God was with them and also the

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wrath of God were upon all those
who were gathered together

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against them to battle.
And I, Nephi, beheld that the

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Gentiles that had gone forth out
of captivity were delivered by

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the power of God out of the
hands of all other nations.

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So this is, this is God
establishing us as a covenant

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people, right?
Just like they said we are.

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This is a covenant land.
And that is undeniable.

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I mean, that aspect of Christian
nationalism they do have, right,

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that this is a covenant land,
that we are a blessed people

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inasmuch inasmuch as we obey
God's laws.

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But here's the question, right?
Here's the rub.

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What are those laws?
Because we just saw Doug Wilson

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say that he's going to outlaw
Mormonism.

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We just saw Calvin say that he's
going to outlaw Mormonism.

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We saw the the pilgrims, we're
going to, we're going to kill

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Joseph Smith.
What are those laws?

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Well, I think that's exactly
what Nephi wants to answer next.

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What are those laws?
Because that is the question to

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ask at this point.
And it came to pass that I,

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Nephi, beheld that they did, Oh,
I read that part.

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And the Angel, you know they
didn't.

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OK, Verse 20.
And it came to pass that I,

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Nephi, beheld that they did
prosper in the land.

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And I beheld a book, and it was
scattered forth among them.

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Oh, a book.
An Angel said unto me, Knowest

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thou the meaning of the book?
And I said unto him, I know not.

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And he said, Behold, it
proceedeth out of the mouth of a

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Jew.
Notice it's a Jew singular,

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right?
I find that very interesting,

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actually.
I don't actually believe in the

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documentary hypothesis, at least
certainly not as presented by

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the by the secularists and the
academics.

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But this almost sounds like
there was a Jew that's maybe

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responsible for compiling this
book because it says it comes

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forth out of the mouth of a Jew.
Well, you know Micah and Isaiah

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and Jeremiah, these were not the
same Jew.

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So I'm thinking this is a a
version of the Bible, a

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collection of sacred writing.
It proceedeth out of the mouth

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of a Jew.
And I, Nephi, beheld it.

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And he said unto me, The book
that thou beholdest is the

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record of the Jews, which
contains the covenants of the

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Lord, which he hath made unto
the House of Israel.

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And it also contains many of the
prophecies of the holy prophets.

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And it is a record like unto the
engravings which were upon the

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plates of brass, save there are
not so many.

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Nevertheless they contain the
covenants of the Lord, which He

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hath made unto the House of
Israel, wherefore they are of

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great worth unto the Gentiles.
So this is great, right?

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This is a really important book.
If they didn't have this book,

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they probably wouldn't be able
to be there 'cause they wouldn't

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understand the covenants, right?
They're not there to create

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this, this city on a hill
without an understanding of

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those covenants.
So they wouldn't have come if it

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that they didn't have this book
and these covenants.

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So that's a good thing.
But 24 And the Angel said unto

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said unto me, That was beheld,
that the book proceedeth forth

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from the mouth of a Jew, and
when it proceedeth forth from

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the mouth of a Jew, it contained
the fullness of the gospel of

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the Lord.
Justin, can I stop you right

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there?
Because you you said something

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about and I found it
interesting, right?

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And look, I'm not trying to
trash talk a whole section of

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people.
I'm trying to point out that

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Joseph Smith is consistent in
this.

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So when you say a Jew, I want to
take you to the King Follett

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discourse because he says it
again, OK, He says it says in

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the King Follett discourse,
Joseph interpreted the Hebrew

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word Bereshit.
He claimed that an old Jew,

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without any authority added the
word.

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Which?
Again, kind of ties back to the

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Book of Mormon, right?
And so again, it's not about a

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whole group of people as much as
it is about there seems to be

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this one, one guy maybe.
Right.

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Well.
Pointing out.

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Well, I, I think this guy, it
says it contained the fullness

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of the gospel when it comes
forth from this a Jew.

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So I think this a Jew is
probably has a prophetic

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calling, a lot like Moroni.
OK.

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But after that, this is a text
that needs to be replicated,

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interestingly enough, right?
These are ancient records.

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They're written on scrolls.
These things deteriorate.

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They don't last forever, which
means you've got to keep copying

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them over time and over time and
over time.

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Now, if you had these engraved
on like stone, you'd be unable

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to alter them.
Or like tablets?

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Or maybe brass plates.
Yeah, a lot harder to to change

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that, right?
If you're doing a scroll, you

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can change it anytime.
Any scribe can change any time

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they're copying it.
Potentially.

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You could have banned versions.
You could have families that

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unintentionally right deviate in
the in their copings of these

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things.
But yeah, so it's coming forth

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from the mouth of a Jew.
But yeah, a Jew didn't like a

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part, so they changed it.
Now I don't understand this.

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This doesn't make sense to me.
It might not even been in bad

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faith, but regardless, this
can't be right.

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This doesn't make sense
according to how I understand

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everything.
So I'm going to, I'm just going

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to change it as I'm copying it
for my family or for, for

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selling or to do it for the
synagogue or whatever, right.

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Exactly.
So at one point this, what we

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today call the Bible, has the
fullness of the of the gospel of

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the Lord in it.
OK.

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Of whom the 12 apostles bear
record.

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It's interesting that he, now
he's bringing up the apostles.

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Why?
Because.

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And they bear record according
to the truth, which is in the

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Lamb of God.
Therefore these things go forth

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from the Jews in purity unto the
Gentiles.

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Now it's saying, the Jews what?
Which Jews?

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The Sanhedrin?
The Pharisees?

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The Sadducees.
Or is it the apostles?

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The apostles, we just got
introduced to the apostles and

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they're Jews.
Wiles bring up the apostles and,

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and say that what they're going
to teach is of great worth to

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the Gentiles.
And these are, these are true

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things.
They're going to teach some true

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things here.
And then it, it, it becomes,

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it's, it's pretty clear too.
It says, and the Angel of the

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Lord said unto me, thou has
beheld it.

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The book proceeded for.
Wait, I did that already, right?

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Yeah.
Therefore these things go forth

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from the Jews in purity unto the
Gentiles, according to the truth

225
00:13:28,360 --> 00:13:31,520
which is in God, which they just
said.

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00:13:31,520 --> 00:13:35,640
The apostles are testifying of
the truth which is in God, and

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00:13:35,640 --> 00:13:38,560
after they go forth by the hand
of the 12 apostles of the Lamb,

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00:13:38,560 --> 00:13:41,320
and there you go, now you know.
There's the answer.

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00:13:41,880 --> 00:13:46,560
There's a.
Pure version of this Bible that

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00:13:46,680 --> 00:13:55,320
the 12 apostles have that it
goes forth from them unto 12

231
00:13:55,320 --> 00:13:57,400
Apostle Lamb from the Jew unto
the Gentile.

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00:13:57,400 --> 00:13:59,640
Thou seest the formation of the
great and abominable church,

233
00:13:59,640 --> 00:14:02,280
which is most abominable above
all of the churches.

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00:14:02,280 --> 00:14:06,560
For behold, they have taken away
from the gospel of the Lamb many

235
00:14:06,560 --> 00:14:10,440
parts which are plain and most
precious and also many covenants

236
00:14:10,440 --> 00:14:12,920
of the Lord have they taken
away.

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00:14:13,400 --> 00:14:15,960
Now here's here's my contention.
And this is again, this is my

238
00:14:15,960 --> 00:14:18,320
opinion on this too, right?
This is my theolog.

239
00:14:18,320 --> 00:14:24,560
This is no, I'm not speaking on
behalf of, of God or even my,

240
00:14:24,640 --> 00:14:26,840
my, you know, even the Mormon
legacy ministries.

241
00:14:27,160 --> 00:14:30,440
I'm speaking from my own
understanding of what I'm

242
00:14:30,440 --> 00:14:33,160
reading here, right?
But I think this makes sense.

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00:14:35,120 --> 00:14:39,720
This the Bible is corrupted by
the great and abominable church

244
00:14:39,760 --> 00:14:42,320
after it says after it goes
forth from the 12 apostles, but

245
00:14:42,320 --> 00:14:44,880
we don't necessarily know what
the 12 apostles had.

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00:14:46,640 --> 00:14:50,960
When I hear Christ say what is
the Christ quotes Deuteronomy

247
00:14:50,960 --> 00:14:54,160
and says what he asked them what
is the 1st and great commandment

248
00:14:54,720 --> 00:14:57,240
to love the Lord God with all
your heart, might, mind and soul

249
00:14:57,240 --> 00:15:00,880
right and then Christ says, and
the second is like unto it, you

250
00:15:00,960 --> 00:15:02,360
shall love your neighbor like
yourself.

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00:15:02,920 --> 00:15:04,680
I didn't see the second in
Deuteronomy.

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00:15:10,960 --> 00:15:14,200
Is quite is Christ quoting a
more complete version of

253
00:15:14,200 --> 00:15:16,320
Deuteronomy in both of the
verses?

254
00:15:16,320 --> 00:15:19,240
Maybe.
Interesting.

255
00:15:19,720 --> 00:15:24,240
I don't think we would know if
he didn't spell it out if he

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00:15:24,240 --> 00:15:29,560
doesn't say, hey, and it we read
in Deuteronomy and and Christ

257
00:15:29,560 --> 00:15:31,560
doesn't do that.
None of none of his quotations

258
00:15:31,560 --> 00:15:33,560
do that.
So honestly, I even wonder how

259
00:15:33,560 --> 00:15:37,120
much Christ actually quotes in
the Old Testament, because we

260
00:15:37,120 --> 00:15:38,920
see him quote stuff that we
have.

261
00:15:40,000 --> 00:15:42,720
Could he have been quoting other
stuff as well that that we have

262
00:15:42,720 --> 00:15:44,400
no idea that that was also a
quote.

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00:15:45,600 --> 00:15:48,040
Maybe that was also Deuteronomy.
It was just a different

264
00:15:48,040 --> 00:15:52,240
Deuteronomy.
And I don't think what is being

265
00:15:52,240 --> 00:15:55,120
said here precludes the idea
that these texts could have been

266
00:15:55,120 --> 00:15:57,320
corrupted beforehand as well,
right?

267
00:16:01,360 --> 00:16:05,480
If Christ had suppose that is
the case and, and, and, and the

268
00:16:05,480 --> 00:16:08,120
Old Testament has been corrupted
and Christ is doing his

269
00:16:08,120 --> 00:16:12,800
ministry, what would happen if
Christ says, oh, and by the way,

270
00:16:12,880 --> 00:16:15,960
you think that's the law of
Moses where it says this in that

271
00:16:15,960 --> 00:16:21,680
verse and that is wrong.
That's not the law, right?

272
00:16:21,680 --> 00:16:23,400
I, I think they would have, they
would have killed him

273
00:16:23,400 --> 00:16:27,120
immediately.
I mean, you're speaking out

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00:16:27,120 --> 00:16:28,880
against the Holy Spirit.
I mean, look what, look at what,

275
00:16:29,000 --> 00:16:30,800
look at the what the Christians
did.

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00:16:30,800 --> 00:16:34,720
It's Joseph Smith, 100.
Percent.

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00:16:35,440 --> 00:16:38,000
You've got a a new Bible, you've
got a different, you're saying

278
00:16:38,000 --> 00:16:43,040
our Bible is not reliable.
You're saying that provokes

279
00:16:43,040 --> 00:16:47,680
violence among among religious
people 9/9 times out of 10.

280
00:16:48,200 --> 00:16:54,120
So, so I don't know that Christ
would necessarily draw attention

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00:16:54,120 --> 00:16:57,560
to the corruption, but if it's
not all corrupt, he could

282
00:16:57,560 --> 00:17:00,680
certainly use the parts that
aren't to illustrate the things

283
00:17:00,680 --> 00:17:04,960
he needs to teach.
And so that's kind of the take

284
00:17:04,960 --> 00:17:07,599
that I'm taking on this.
This is how I understand what

285
00:17:07,680 --> 00:17:11,160
Nephi is explaining here too.
So it is pure.

286
00:17:11,160 --> 00:17:16,160
So the 12 apostles, maybe Christ
has a, a copy that isn't

287
00:17:16,160 --> 00:17:17,680
corrupted.
Maybe he does a Joseph Smith

288
00:17:17,680 --> 00:17:20,720
translation of his own that he
gives to the apostles.

289
00:17:20,720 --> 00:17:22,480
I don't know.
But they have a version that's

290
00:17:22,480 --> 00:17:27,960
that's uncorrupted and it's
going to go to the to the

291
00:17:27,960 --> 00:17:31,440
Gentiles.
But and so who are those

292
00:17:31,440 --> 00:17:34,760
Gentiles, by the way?
I would dare to say it's

293
00:17:34,760 --> 00:17:37,880
probably those that Holy Roman
Empire at that point.

294
00:17:37,880 --> 00:17:39,320
It's what he's talking about
there.

295
00:17:39,960 --> 00:17:42,720
I think it's before.
You think it's before that?

296
00:17:43,040 --> 00:17:45,800
Wherefore these things go forth
from the Jews impurity unto the

297
00:17:45,800 --> 00:17:47,760
Gentiles, according to the
truth, which is.

298
00:17:47,760 --> 00:17:49,200
Involved.
That's a good point, yeah.

299
00:17:49,920 --> 00:17:51,760
Right.
So I think this is Paul and

300
00:17:51,760 --> 00:17:58,240
Peter and and Barnabas and the
original 12 apostles.

301
00:17:59,120 --> 00:18:01,920
They're the ones who delivered
to the early church.

302
00:18:03,360 --> 00:18:07,880
So we don't have copies of of
what the Bible looked like in

303
00:18:07,880 --> 00:18:09,640
the early church.
Again, like, you know, we have

304
00:18:09,640 --> 00:18:12,200
these ancient older versions of
stuff like the Septuagint

305
00:18:12,200 --> 00:18:15,840
things, right, the Dead Sea
Scrolls, but we don't know that

306
00:18:15,840 --> 00:18:17,760
that was what they were using
either.

307
00:18:20,280 --> 00:18:22,560
And so regardless, it's
impurity.

308
00:18:22,560 --> 00:18:26,480
But then after they go forth by
the hand of the 12 apostle, the

309
00:18:26,480 --> 00:18:28,640
Lamb from the June.
And this is the great and Bible

310
00:18:28,640 --> 00:18:31,360
church, right?
They've taken away from the

311
00:18:31,360 --> 00:18:33,480
gospel of the Lamb many parts
which are plain and most

312
00:18:33,480 --> 00:18:35,440
precious and also many covenants
of the Lord.

313
00:18:35,440 --> 00:18:40,400
Have they taken away.
This is important here because I

314
00:18:40,400 --> 00:18:43,440
think what Nephi with the Angel
he was trying to explain is, is

315
00:18:43,440 --> 00:18:47,560
that the Bible that these
Gentiles bring over the ocean to

316
00:18:47,560 --> 00:18:50,840
America with that they bring,
it's not reliable.

317
00:18:51,240 --> 00:18:54,080
It has been contaminated.
That's the main point here,

318
00:18:54,680 --> 00:18:56,280
right?
And it's interesting that they

319
00:18:56,280 --> 00:19:00,920
specifically, he says taken
away, taken away.

320
00:19:00,920 --> 00:19:04,080
It seems like it's been
corrupted mostly by removal than

321
00:19:04,080 --> 00:19:08,200
it has necessarily by addition.
And what's fascinating is when

322
00:19:08,200 --> 00:19:14,120
you look at Joseph Smith's Moses
and you look at Genesis, Genesis

323
00:19:14,280 --> 00:19:18,320
as in as defined in the in the
Bible as we have it today,

324
00:19:18,320 --> 00:19:23,880
right, is pretty much word for
word there in the book of Moses.

325
00:19:25,400 --> 00:19:30,240
But the book of Moses has a heck
of a lot more and it's, it's a

326
00:19:30,240 --> 00:19:33,520
wild how different it is.
I mean, you're in, you're

327
00:19:33,520 --> 00:19:35,800
reading the book of Moses.
You're finding out that Noah and

328
00:19:35,800 --> 00:19:38,600
his sons are preaching the
gospel of Jesus Christ before

329
00:19:38,600 --> 00:19:41,000
the flood.
It just flat UPS.

330
00:19:41,200 --> 00:19:43,200
It says they're teaching Jesus
Christ.

331
00:19:43,200 --> 00:19:46,080
Did Noah know who Jesus Christ
was according to Genesis?

332
00:19:47,360 --> 00:19:49,160
Not according to Genesis.
We don't know.

333
00:19:49,160 --> 00:19:50,720
We don't know.
We don't know anything about

334
00:19:50,720 --> 00:19:54,280
that.
But when we look at Joseph Smith

335
00:19:54,280 --> 00:19:57,360
translation, no, he was teaching
the gospel of Jesus Christ.

336
00:19:59,080 --> 00:20:02,480
That is what Noah was preaching.
Well, that's kind of important.

337
00:20:02,480 --> 00:20:04,520
And if you don't like Christ for
some reason and you want to

338
00:20:04,520 --> 00:20:08,440
remove him from the Old
Testament, that's what you're

339
00:20:08,440 --> 00:20:11,320
that's you're going to remove
the plain and precious things.

340
00:20:11,920 --> 00:20:14,880
The fact that Joseph Smith
translation basically in, in

341
00:20:14,880 --> 00:20:18,000
Moses and I, I actually agree
with a comment Joshua Erickson

342
00:20:18,000 --> 00:20:20,720
made on your podcast a few, a
few weeks back, right?

343
00:20:21,400 --> 00:20:24,320
I think that a lot of the
translation of the of the Old

344
00:20:24,320 --> 00:20:27,120
and New Testament that Joseph
Smith did is interpretive.

345
00:20:27,320 --> 00:20:32,360
He's not necessarily restoring
the the text, he's giving

346
00:20:32,360 --> 00:20:36,080
interpretation.
He's restoring the meaning of

347
00:20:36,080 --> 00:20:38,040
the text.
Yeah, he's getting the meaning

348
00:20:38,040 --> 00:20:40,720
back to what it should be, but
he's not getting it back to the

349
00:20:40,720 --> 00:20:43,480
original narrative.
Not verbatim.

350
00:20:44,040 --> 00:20:48,800
Except in Moses.
In Moses that's exactly what you

351
00:20:48,800 --> 00:20:51,000
see and what we call the book of
Book of Moses.

352
00:20:52,040 --> 00:20:56,120
We see this humongous amount of
addition that just changes

353
00:20:56,880 --> 00:20:59,920
everything on how you look at
those stories.

354
00:20:59,920 --> 00:21:02,280
And unfortunately, it stops
right before Noah.

355
00:21:02,800 --> 00:21:06,160
We get an introduction to Noah.
We learn important things like

356
00:21:06,480 --> 00:21:09,640
in Genesis, it says God repented
that he had created man.

357
00:21:10,080 --> 00:21:14,760
God is like, man, I wish I
didn't, man, you guys all suck.

358
00:21:14,760 --> 00:21:20,200
I wish you could, you could
parent telling us children like

359
00:21:20,240 --> 00:21:22,040
that's a little rough.
I'll be honest.

360
00:21:22,040 --> 00:21:24,720
That's not the best example as a
father to be like, you know, I

361
00:21:24,720 --> 00:21:26,840
wish you, I wish we'd never had
you.

362
00:21:28,560 --> 00:21:34,320
But but in the inspired version,
we find out that was Noah making

363
00:21:34,320 --> 00:21:37,240
that complaint.
I get it.

364
00:21:37,240 --> 00:21:40,280
And if you grow up with a lot of
siblings, that's a whole lot

365
00:21:40,280 --> 00:21:43,320
more reasonable.
Man, I wish you'd never been

366
00:21:43,320 --> 00:21:51,800
bored.
But anyways, I mean, I think we

367
00:21:51,800 --> 00:21:55,760
see that there is definitely
some unreliableness in the

368
00:21:55,760 --> 00:21:57,360
Bible.
The Puritans didn't know that

369
00:21:57,360 --> 00:21:59,600
Noah's preaching the gospel of
Jesus Christ.

370
00:21:59,600 --> 00:22:04,040
We only know that because of
Joseph Smith and he put those

371
00:22:04,040 --> 00:22:07,160
testimonies back in.
The first thing that Moses has

372
00:22:07,160 --> 00:22:09,800
in in his whole vision of
Genesis before the vision even

373
00:22:09,800 --> 00:22:14,480
starts, right, is he's taught
the gospel, He's taught that

374
00:22:14,880 --> 00:22:16,400
he's taught that there's going
to be a savior.

375
00:22:17,360 --> 00:22:21,520
Jesus Christ is, you know,
people talk about like the Book

376
00:22:21,520 --> 00:22:23,560
of Mormon is so Christ centric,
right?

377
00:22:23,560 --> 00:22:25,600
It's like it's like he's, he's
referenced, like I don't

378
00:22:25,600 --> 00:22:28,440
remember, that's just was it
like 4 1/2 times on every page

379
00:22:28,440 --> 00:22:31,640
or something.
Pretty wild.

380
00:22:32,760 --> 00:22:36,880
You know, the restored version
of Genesis looks like that the

381
00:22:37,040 --> 00:22:40,600
Joseph Smith's, the Pearl of
Great Price, books of Moses.

382
00:22:41,560 --> 00:22:43,600
They look a lot like the Book of
Mormon in that regards.

383
00:22:43,600 --> 00:22:45,560
And what exactly is Nephi saying
here?

384
00:22:47,320 --> 00:22:50,760
That the plain and precious
parts are going to be removed.

385
00:22:51,080 --> 00:22:54,400
But what is the Book of Mormon?
Well, the plain and precious

386
00:22:54,400 --> 00:22:59,560
parts restored, maybe not the
same stories, but it's brought

387
00:22:59,560 --> 00:23:01,440
back.
Christ is the center of the Book

388
00:23:01,440 --> 00:23:03,880
of Mormon.
I think Christ is the center of,

389
00:23:04,200 --> 00:23:07,320
of the Old Testament as well.
I think the only reason you

390
00:23:07,320 --> 00:23:12,080
don't really see Christ outside
of deep, deep, deep symbolic

391
00:23:12,080 --> 00:23:16,400
analysis, which requires, you
know, a, a Talmudic degree and,

392
00:23:18,760 --> 00:23:24,720
and, and as a, as a Jew is
because it was removed.

393
00:23:25,040 --> 00:23:27,440
It was there.
It's not there now.

394
00:23:28,560 --> 00:23:32,760
Now, if that is the case and the
Puritans are coming over to

395
00:23:32,760 --> 00:23:36,880
America, they're bringing this
book as their standard, what

396
00:23:36,880 --> 00:23:40,240
would happen next?
Well, let's find out.

397
00:23:40,240 --> 00:23:43,120
Let's ask the Angel.
Did you want to comment?

398
00:23:44,720 --> 00:23:46,520
Oh, go ahead.
All right.

399
00:23:49,840 --> 00:23:52,720
Versus I think we're at 29.
OK.

400
00:23:53,800 --> 00:23:55,280
If not, that's all right.
We'll, we'll continue.

401
00:23:55,280 --> 00:23:56,960
From no, I think it's 29 we're
on.

402
00:23:57,640 --> 00:24:00,280
And after these plain and
precious things were taken away,

403
00:24:00,280 --> 00:24:03,400
it goeth forth from all the
nations of the Gentiles.

404
00:24:03,400 --> 00:24:06,120
And after it goes forth unto all
the nations of the Gentiles.

405
00:24:06,120 --> 00:24:09,120
Yeah, even across the many
waters now all the nations.

406
00:24:09,120 --> 00:24:11,000
That's the whole that sounds
like the Holy Roman Empire,

407
00:24:11,120 --> 00:24:13,160
right being established.
This Bible, it's, it's going

408
00:24:13,320 --> 00:24:18,240
everywhere. 100%.
And it's even across the ocean,

409
00:24:20,240 --> 00:24:23,560
yeah, even across many waters
that I've seen with the scene

410
00:24:23,560 --> 00:24:26,200
with the Gentiles which have
gone forth out of captivity.

411
00:24:26,600 --> 00:24:29,760
Thou seest because of the many
plain and precious things which

412
00:24:29,760 --> 00:24:32,880
have been taken out of the book,
which were plain unto the

413
00:24:32,880 --> 00:24:36,280
understanding of the children of
men, according to the plainness

414
00:24:36,280 --> 00:24:39,800
which is in the Lamb of God.
Because these things which were

415
00:24:39,800 --> 00:24:42,960
taken out of the gospel of the
Lamb, an exceedingly great

416
00:24:42,960 --> 00:24:48,240
number, many do stumble.
Yay, insomuch that Satan hath

417
00:24:48,240 --> 00:24:52,320
great power over them, saying
these guys that come across the

418
00:24:52,320 --> 00:24:54,480
water, the Bible, they're going
to, they're going to stumble.

419
00:24:55,920 --> 00:25:02,440
Now the Jews kind of stumbled as
well, right?

420
00:25:03,400 --> 00:25:04,880
The Jews kind of stumbled as
well.

421
00:25:05,200 --> 00:25:08,680
They stumbled because they've
been waiting for this Messiah

422
00:25:09,040 --> 00:25:13,480
for millennia and he shows up
and they reject him.

423
00:25:14,520 --> 00:25:18,200
Why?
Because they're looking for a

424
00:25:18,200 --> 00:25:21,080
political savior, right?
They want a guy to bring the

425
00:25:21,080 --> 00:25:23,960
sword.
They want him to drive Rome out.

426
00:25:24,200 --> 00:25:27,040
They want to reestablish the
Davidic rule.

427
00:25:27,360 --> 00:25:29,800
They want.
They want.

428
00:25:29,800 --> 00:25:32,640
Nationalism.
Yes, Yep.

429
00:25:34,200 --> 00:25:38,240
They're looking for Jewish
nationalism, and when Christ

430
00:25:38,240 --> 00:25:39,600
doesn't give it to him, they
stumble.

431
00:25:41,480 --> 00:25:45,080
I see.
Well, the Gentiles, that these

432
00:25:45,080 --> 00:25:49,880
Puritans and pilgrims, they're
going to stumble too, in fact,

433
00:25:50,200 --> 00:25:52,440
exceedingly great.
Many do stumble in some, yeah,

434
00:25:52,480 --> 00:25:54,440
in so much that Satan hath great
power over them.

435
00:25:54,440 --> 00:25:56,960
Nevertheless, thou beheldest
that the Gentiles who have gone

436
00:25:56,960 --> 00:25:59,840
forth out of the captivity and
have been lifted up by the power

437
00:25:59,840 --> 00:26:02,360
of God above all their nations,
upon the face of the land which

438
00:26:02,360 --> 00:26:05,560
is choice above all other lands,
which is the land that Lord God

439
00:26:05,560 --> 00:26:08,280
had covenanted with thy Father,
and that His seed should have

440
00:26:08,280 --> 00:26:10,880
for a land of their inheritance.
Wherefore thou seest that the

441
00:26:10,880 --> 00:26:13,240
Lord God will not suffer, that
the Gentiles will utterly

442
00:26:13,240 --> 00:26:16,480
destroy the mixture of thy seed
which are among thy brethren.

443
00:26:17,880 --> 00:26:26,720
So the Gentiles, despite this
issue, they've got God's going

444
00:26:26,720 --> 00:26:30,000
to allow them to take take the
land, but also, but not

445
00:26:30,000 --> 00:26:32,400
completely take it.
In other words, they're not

446
00:26:32,400 --> 00:26:38,320
going to establish Christian
nationalism, which would

447
00:26:38,320 --> 00:26:42,920
eradicate the pagans if it were
truly implemented in that way

448
00:26:42,920 --> 00:26:45,880
over time.
They're going to be the, the,

449
00:26:46,000 --> 00:26:49,080
the Lamanites, the Native
Americans, they're going to be a

450
00:26:49,080 --> 00:26:54,120
portion of them are going to be
preserved in this state.

451
00:26:55,280 --> 00:26:58,040
Nevertheless, he will suffer
that the Gentiles shall destroy

452
00:26:58,040 --> 00:27:00,000
the seed of thy brethren.
They're going to destroy him,

453
00:27:00,080 --> 00:27:01,960
but they're, some of them are
going to survive.

454
00:27:02,920 --> 00:27:05,560
Neither will the Lord God suffer
that the Gentiles shall ever

455
00:27:05,560 --> 00:27:11,400
forever remain in that awful
state of blindness which thou

456
00:27:11,400 --> 00:27:14,200
beheldest therein, because of
the plain and most precious

457
00:27:14,200 --> 00:27:16,600
parts of the Gospel of the Lamb,
which have been kept back by

458
00:27:16,600 --> 00:27:19,720
that abominable Church whose
formation thou has seen.

459
00:27:20,880 --> 00:27:23,960
Wherefore, saith the Lamb of
God, I will be merciful unto the

460
00:27:23,960 --> 00:27:27,000
Gentiles, unto the visiting of
the remnant of the House of

461
00:27:27,000 --> 00:27:33,960
Israel in great judgement.
So in this, in this in the state

462
00:27:33,960 --> 00:27:37,320
of whether the Native Americans
repel the, the, the the

463
00:27:37,320 --> 00:27:39,800
colonizers or the colonizers are
going to win, right?

464
00:27:40,200 --> 00:27:43,160
God saying that God's going to
favor the colonizers in this

465
00:27:43,160 --> 00:27:47,880
case, even though, even though
he's going to be merciful unto

466
00:27:47,880 --> 00:27:52,480
the Gentiles, even though
they're blind because of the

467
00:27:52,680 --> 00:27:57,280
this flaw in this in this book
that they've got this important

468
00:27:57,280 --> 00:28:01,480
flaw.
He's recognizing that that and

469
00:28:01,480 --> 00:28:04,440
and correct me if this is an
unfair assessment, they're going

470
00:28:04,440 --> 00:28:07,320
to stumble because the of all
the plain and precious things

471
00:28:07,320 --> 00:28:09,560
that have been taken out of the
owner's manual, right?

472
00:28:09,560 --> 00:28:11,480
The how to manual on how to do
things.

473
00:28:12,000 --> 00:28:14,680
And so that's the reason they
stumble and that's probably the

474
00:28:14,680 --> 00:28:21,080
reason he has has mercy on them,
because he recognizes it's not

475
00:28:21,080 --> 00:28:23,800
really.
Their fault, right?

476
00:28:23,800 --> 00:28:26,040
They're doing their best.
They think they've got this

477
00:28:26,040 --> 00:28:27,480
book.
They think it says that they've

478
00:28:27,480 --> 00:28:34,200
got to do this. 100%, you know,
and that's once again, and I've

479
00:28:34,200 --> 00:28:38,240
said this before on the podcast
several times, I think God waits

480
00:28:38,240 --> 00:28:42,400
for us to do stuff first, right?
Like how serious you going to

481
00:28:42,400 --> 00:28:43,280
take it?
Are you going to make an

482
00:28:43,280 --> 00:28:44,960
attempt?
Because if you make an attempt,

483
00:28:44,960 --> 00:28:46,880
I'll help you.
But if you're just going to sit

484
00:28:46,880 --> 00:28:50,480
back and continue to be academic
about it, there's not much I can

485
00:28:50,480 --> 00:28:53,440
help you with there, right?
I'll let you fumble around for

486
00:28:53,440 --> 00:28:55,880
the answers, but at some point
do something.

487
00:28:56,160 --> 00:28:59,240
And here we see it again, right?
You have a people who's willing

488
00:28:59,240 --> 00:29:02,720
to do something and then the
Lord's like, good enough.

489
00:29:02,960 --> 00:29:04,960
I can work with that.
From there, we'll move.

490
00:29:04,960 --> 00:29:08,160
Forward with that, it's a move.
It's a chess play, right?

491
00:29:08,560 --> 00:29:11,200
Chess play.
I'm I might not be in Zion yet,

492
00:29:11,240 --> 00:29:14,760
but I'm one step closer.
Yeah, you've entered the game.

493
00:29:14,880 --> 00:29:17,840
You've you've coaches put you in
time to.

494
00:29:17,840 --> 00:29:18,920
Go.
Yep.

495
00:29:19,640 --> 00:29:22,240
OK.
So, but what is God going to do

496
00:29:22,240 --> 00:29:23,640
about it?
Because this is still, this is a

497
00:29:23,640 --> 00:29:25,880
problem.
This is a big problem

498
00:29:25,880 --> 00:29:29,040
nonetheless, if we're going to
get to an actual covenant city,

499
00:29:29,040 --> 00:29:32,760
if we're going to get to an
actual covenant nation of God,

500
00:29:33,800 --> 00:29:37,240
the fact that the the the
handbook forth the manual is

501
00:29:37,240 --> 00:29:39,280
unreliable.
That's a problem.

502
00:29:40,920 --> 00:29:43,960
So the angel's going to explain
how this happened.

503
00:29:43,960 --> 00:29:46,760
I'm going to skip a little bit
into the middle of verse 34

504
00:29:49,080 --> 00:29:51,440
after so because it's got a lot
of it's repeating, right?

505
00:29:51,440 --> 00:29:53,320
The the stumbling of the
Gentiles, the stumbling of the

506
00:29:53,320 --> 00:29:56,400
Gentiles.
I will be merciful unto the

507
00:29:56,400 --> 00:30:00,320
Gentiles in that day in so much
that I will bring forth unto

508
00:30:00,320 --> 00:30:04,240
them in my own power much of my
gospel, which shall be plain and

509
00:30:04,240 --> 00:30:07,920
precious, saith the Lamb.
There's going to be a

510
00:30:07,920 --> 00:30:14,200
restoration, right?
And how, how is how is God going

511
00:30:14,200 --> 00:30:23,600
to bring about this restoration
in mine own power right now

512
00:30:23,600 --> 00:30:27,160
here's the thing I loved.
I love to research the old

513
00:30:27,160 --> 00:30:31,880
stuff, ancient civilizations,
occultism and like the Dead Sea

514
00:30:31,880 --> 00:30:34,440
Scrolls.
Awesome, right?

515
00:30:34,520 --> 00:30:38,520
There's some really cool stuff
to be gleaned from those and I

516
00:30:38,520 --> 00:30:44,440
like studying that.
But the solution here isn't that

517
00:30:44,440 --> 00:30:47,080
God's going to say that it
isn't, that you're going to find

518
00:30:47,080 --> 00:30:48,920
an uncorrupted version of the
Bible.

519
00:30:51,000 --> 00:30:55,200
That's not the game plan.
Sure, I can see that.

520
00:30:55,200 --> 00:30:58,800
Because this is going to be
God's going to fix this in mine

521
00:30:58,920 --> 00:31:03,040
own power, not by our power.
We're not going to fix this

522
00:31:03,040 --> 00:31:06,920
ourselves.
We we can study the Bible and be

523
00:31:07,320 --> 00:31:12,000
ultra, ultra Scriptorian and and
memorize that whole thing.

524
00:31:12,000 --> 00:31:17,400
We're not going to be able to
feel theologize our way out of

525
00:31:17,400 --> 00:31:21,080
this problem.
We need God to intervene on our

526
00:31:21,080 --> 00:31:25,040
behalf to fix the problem of the
fact that we have a corrupted

527
00:31:25,040 --> 00:31:28,920
version of the owner's manual on
how to establish Zion.

528
00:31:31,160 --> 00:31:35,160
So for behold, saith Lamb, I
will manifest myself unto thy

529
00:31:35,160 --> 00:31:37,440
seed.
This is the Nephi seed.

530
00:31:37,720 --> 00:31:40,120
Christ, say, I'm going to
manifest myself to your

531
00:31:40,120 --> 00:31:43,520
descendants, that they shall
write many things which I shall

532
00:31:43,520 --> 00:31:45,600
minister unto them, which shall
be plain and precious.

533
00:31:45,600 --> 00:31:48,520
And after thy seed shall be
destroyed and dwindled, and

534
00:31:48,520 --> 00:31:52,040
unbelief, and also the seed of
thy brethren, behold, these

535
00:31:52,040 --> 00:31:55,200
things shall be hit up and come
forth unto the Gentiles by the

536
00:31:55,200 --> 00:31:59,280
gift and power of the Lamb, and
in them shall be written my

537
00:31:59,280 --> 00:32:03,120
gospel saith the Lamb, and my
rock, and my salvation.

538
00:32:03,720 --> 00:32:07,440
And blessed are they who shall
seek to bring forth my Zion at

539
00:32:07,440 --> 00:32:10,200
that day.
Again, he's talking about Zion.

540
00:32:10,600 --> 00:32:14,240
This all has to do with Zion,
starting with, with Columbus,

541
00:32:14,240 --> 00:32:17,040
the, the Gentiles coming out of
captivity to America.

542
00:32:17,520 --> 00:32:20,520
This whole section, the angels
explaining how Zion is to be

543
00:32:20,520 --> 00:32:23,560
established.
How does Zion get established?

544
00:32:23,800 --> 00:32:29,840
How do we go from the dark ages
and the Holy Roman Empire to

545
00:32:30,640 --> 00:32:33,800
Zion on earth?
And he's hitting the key points

546
00:32:33,800 --> 00:32:37,600
that really important things
Columbus, the the, the Puritans

547
00:32:37,600 --> 00:32:42,400
and the and the Separatists and
the the founding fathers and the

548
00:32:42,400 --> 00:32:46,400
war with with England.
But the big.

549
00:32:46,400 --> 00:32:49,120
Problem.
Yeah, but the big problem

550
00:32:49,120 --> 00:32:52,280
keeping us from Zion is our
Bible is unreliable.

551
00:32:54,440 --> 00:32:57,640
But there's a plan.
God always has a plan, right?

552
00:32:57,640 --> 00:32:59,640
And the plan is the Book of
Mormon.

553
00:33:01,280 --> 00:33:04,440
This is our blueprint for Zion
AS.

554
00:33:04,440 --> 00:33:06,960
Mormon.
It's not.

555
00:33:06,960 --> 00:33:09,560
It's there's is.
I'm not saying that the the Old

556
00:33:09,560 --> 00:33:12,880
Testament is all bad and wrong.
There's great stuff to be found

557
00:33:12,880 --> 00:33:15,120
in there, but it's not going to
function as a blueprint.

558
00:33:15,120 --> 00:33:16,800
That's what Nephi is trying to
say here.

559
00:33:17,040 --> 00:33:18,800
This is what the angel's
explaining to him.

560
00:33:19,320 --> 00:33:24,960
The Bible does not work as a
standalone manual to establish a

561
00:33:24,960 --> 00:33:30,240
covenant society. 100% OK, no,
this is all.

562
00:33:30,240 --> 00:33:31,720
Coming.
Together.

563
00:33:32,240 --> 00:33:34,520
This becomes the standard,
right?

564
00:33:35,040 --> 00:33:39,360
Blessed are they who she seek to
bring forth my Zion at that day,

565
00:33:39,360 --> 00:33:42,480
for they shall have the gift and
the power of the Holy Ghost.

566
00:33:43,760 --> 00:33:45,680
Again, more restoration
requirements.

567
00:33:45,760 --> 00:33:47,680
You don't have the gift, the
power of the Holy Ghost without

568
00:33:47,840 --> 00:33:53,040
the restoration of priesthood.
And if they endure unto the end,

569
00:33:53,040 --> 00:33:55,440
they shall be lifted up at the
last day, and shall be saved in

570
00:33:55,440 --> 00:33:56,760
the everlasting Kingdom of the
Lamb.

571
00:33:56,760 --> 00:34:00,440
And whoso shall publish peace?
Yeah, tidings of great joy.

572
00:34:00,440 --> 00:34:03,440
How beautiful upon the mountains
shall they be?

573
00:34:04,640 --> 00:34:07,960
Which again, this is.
That's a reference to an Isaiah.

574
00:34:09,080 --> 00:34:10,120
Right.
Right.

575
00:34:11,440 --> 00:34:12,520
Bless.
How's it go?

576
00:34:12,520 --> 00:34:15,159
Blessed are the how beautiful
upon the mountains are the feet

577
00:34:15,159 --> 00:34:16,920
of they who?
Of they who published peace?

578
00:34:16,920 --> 00:34:18,480
Yeah.
Who published glad tidings of

579
00:34:18,480 --> 00:34:19,120
joy.
Right.

580
00:34:19,920 --> 00:34:23,320
That is a reference to the
establishment of Zion.

581
00:34:24,920 --> 00:34:28,159
And, and to a lesser degree,
it's in this, it, it is a

582
00:34:28,159 --> 00:34:32,320
reference to temples, right?
Anytime that they talk about

583
00:34:32,320 --> 00:34:36,760
going up the mountain of the
Lord, that's a temple motif.

584
00:34:37,120 --> 00:34:40,960
And that's, and, and, and he's,
he's telling you what you're

585
00:34:40,960 --> 00:34:43,360
going to see.
If you're familiar with Isaiah

586
00:34:43,360 --> 00:34:47,679
and you get Isaiah, you're going
to understand, oh, wow, look,

587
00:34:47,679 --> 00:34:49,239
all these things are going to
happen.

588
00:34:49,560 --> 00:34:52,040
And then there's going to be
other additional scripture and

589
00:34:52,040 --> 00:34:56,120
then we're going to temples, all
part of the plan of Zion here.

590
00:34:56,920 --> 00:34:59,840
Right, Yeah.
So I think the Book of Mormon

591
00:34:59,840 --> 00:35:05,440
really answers that question
that if we're fumbling around

592
00:35:05,440 --> 00:35:08,880
with Old Testament laws trying
to implement these and, and we

593
00:35:08,880 --> 00:35:10,960
read this and well, I guess we
got to kill our children when

594
00:35:10,960 --> 00:35:14,360
they're disobedient, I guess we
got to, you know, I guess this

595
00:35:14,360 --> 00:35:17,480
is how we handle the sex slaves.
This is you're going in the

596
00:35:17,480 --> 00:35:19,120
wrong direction.
You're not going to get to Zion

597
00:35:19,120 --> 00:35:21,080
that way.
If you're going to get to Zion

598
00:35:21,080 --> 00:35:23,800
that way, the, the pilgrims
would have done it.

599
00:35:24,280 --> 00:35:25,840
The Founding Fathers would have
done it.

600
00:35:26,760 --> 00:35:28,960
There.
There's another word back up

601
00:35:28,960 --> 00:35:30,720
there.
I can't remember what verse it

602
00:35:30,720 --> 00:35:32,880
was in.
I'm scrolling right now but it

603
00:35:32,880 --> 00:35:35,160
said many of the plain and
precious things and the

604
00:35:35,160 --> 00:35:38,520
covenants of the Lord.
Yeah.

605
00:35:39,440 --> 00:35:43,480
Everything we do in Mormonism is
informed by that covenant

606
00:35:43,480 --> 00:35:48,360
relationship, that covenant
process we go through.

607
00:35:48,360 --> 00:35:50,320
That's how personal changes
enacted.

608
00:35:50,680 --> 00:35:54,960
And I would dare to say that's
why Mormonism ends up becoming a

609
00:35:54,960 --> 00:35:57,840
a parallel society, a
counterculture, right.

610
00:35:58,160 --> 00:36:01,240
I've said this for a while.
I think that Mormonism is the

611
00:36:01,240 --> 00:36:07,000
first successful counterculture
to ever hit America and it's

612
00:36:07,000 --> 00:36:11,880
still going.
And and so that whole covenantal

613
00:36:11,880 --> 00:36:16,160
nature relationship that would
that would affect how you deal

614
00:36:16,160 --> 00:36:18,800
with other people.
If we look at the covenants we

615
00:36:18,800 --> 00:36:24,240
take in the temple, very not
that they don't have to do with

616
00:36:24,240 --> 00:36:28,120
God, but realistically why they
do have to do with God, they

617
00:36:28,120 --> 00:36:30,680
also have to do with our
relationship with other people.

618
00:36:31,880 --> 00:36:34,640
Yeah.
We look at the law of chastity,

619
00:36:35,640 --> 00:36:39,320
OK, That's about how you're
going to treat your spouse,

620
00:36:40,000 --> 00:36:42,600
right?
Law of consecration, That's how

621
00:36:42,600 --> 00:36:45,400
you're going to treat your
brothers and sisters who are

622
00:36:45,400 --> 00:36:48,480
coming in.
Law of sacrifice, same sort of

623
00:36:48,480 --> 00:36:52,920
thing, right?
All these things I they, we are

624
00:36:52,920 --> 00:36:56,240
covenanting with God for our own
benefit, to make us better

625
00:36:56,240 --> 00:36:59,120
people.
But the process in which that

626
00:36:59,120 --> 00:37:03,000
covenant is outwardly apparent
is how we deal with others.

627
00:37:03,680 --> 00:37:08,040
And so if those covenants that
are mentioned by Nephi that are

628
00:37:08,040 --> 00:37:13,640
taken away, well, then, yeah,
that would change what you do

629
00:37:13,640 --> 00:37:16,160
with a kid when he's
disrespectful.

630
00:37:17,160 --> 00:37:18,520
I could see that being part of
it.

631
00:37:18,520 --> 00:37:19,720
Right.
Yeah.

632
00:37:19,760 --> 00:37:21,440
It's it's an interesting
connection there.

633
00:37:21,440 --> 00:37:23,760
That's a great find.
Yeah.

634
00:37:23,840 --> 00:37:27,040
And so I, I, I think that so the
Christian nationalists, they

635
00:37:27,040 --> 00:37:30,600
want they, they have a vision of
Zion in a sense as well, right.

636
00:37:31,760 --> 00:37:37,680
But their vision of what this
is, is, I think inarguably kind

637
00:37:37,680 --> 00:37:40,720
of incompatible with with the
Mormon understanding of what

638
00:37:40,720 --> 00:37:43,840
this is.
And the key difference, the key

639
00:37:43,840 --> 00:37:49,240
difference here is that they are
turning to this unreliable Bible

640
00:37:49,960 --> 00:37:52,120
to try to figure out how to do
this.

641
00:37:52,640 --> 00:37:56,520
And what we're seeing here is
we're seeing ordinances, we're

642
00:37:56,520 --> 00:37:59,360
seeing the Book of Mormon, we're
seeing temple.

643
00:38:00,120 --> 00:38:04,640
And like you said, this says
that they the Bible has some of

644
00:38:04,640 --> 00:38:07,360
the covenants, just doesn't have
all of them.

645
00:38:07,640 --> 00:38:10,560
They had the covenant of the
understanding of that Israel was

646
00:38:10,560 --> 00:38:13,240
a covenant people then the
pilgrims, they wanted that

647
00:38:13,440 --> 00:38:17,080
covenant nation they got they
had that covenant, but they're

648
00:38:17,080 --> 00:38:18,680
missing, they're missing the
rest.

649
00:38:18,680 --> 00:38:20,640
They don't really understand the
Abrahamic covenant.

650
00:38:20,640 --> 00:38:22,000
They don't understand what that
was about.

651
00:38:22,000 --> 00:38:23,680
They think that's just about,
oh, you're going to have a lot

652
00:38:23,680 --> 00:38:26,920
of children.
It's purely purely secular,

653
00:38:26,920 --> 00:38:29,040
right?
Or like it's purely carnal.

654
00:38:29,040 --> 00:38:33,560
It's purely temporal.
The spiritual side of the

655
00:38:33,560 --> 00:38:38,480
Abrahamic covenant is, is, is
Abraham becomes a God and has an

656
00:38:38,480 --> 00:38:42,240
eternal posterity as a God.
Yes, he's promised to be the

657
00:38:42,240 --> 00:38:47,920
father of us temporally of of
the believers, but he's also

658
00:38:47,920 --> 00:38:50,960
promised this, this the divine
relationship and that's missing

659
00:38:51,440 --> 00:38:53,720
that was that there's the
covenant that was taken out.

660
00:38:53,720 --> 00:38:57,400
We need these things back if
we're going to get to actual

661
00:38:57,480 --> 00:39:02,640
Zion.
And, and again, we need to use

662
00:39:02,640 --> 00:39:05,320
the Book of Mormon.
That's what basically what the

663
00:39:05,320 --> 00:39:07,000
Angel is saying.
The Book of Mormon becomes the

664
00:39:07,000 --> 00:39:08,640
blueprint.
This is the, this is the new

665
00:39:08,640 --> 00:39:11,240
owner's manual.
God's not going to restore the

666
00:39:11,240 --> 00:39:13,560
old owner's manual and we're
going to use that.

667
00:39:13,560 --> 00:39:15,200
No, he, he's prepared us a new
one.

668
00:39:15,200 --> 00:39:20,320
And we're going to be using the
Book of Mormon to figure out how

669
00:39:20,320 --> 00:39:24,560
we're going to do this.
So with that said, maybe we

670
00:39:24,560 --> 00:39:27,400
should look at what the Book of
Orbit actually has to say about

671
00:39:27,400 --> 00:39:31,120
government and and how that
stuff's established.

672
00:39:31,120 --> 00:39:33,320
Does that sound good?
Yeah, let's do that.

673
00:39:34,720 --> 00:39:38,720
All right, so we're going to go
over to Alma 30 now, and we're

674
00:39:38,720 --> 00:39:42,000
going to cover the story of this
man named Corohore.

675
00:39:42,400 --> 00:39:45,800
I'm not breaking any news here.
We live in spiritually perilous

676
00:39:45,800 --> 00:39:47,400
times.
It seems like danger is all

677
00:39:47,400 --> 00:39:51,000
around us or our family
spiritually all the time, but

678
00:39:51,000 --> 00:39:52,800
our God hasn't left us
defenseless.

679
00:39:53,000 --> 00:39:57,080
We read in Ephesians chapter 6
verse 17 and take the helmet of

680
00:39:57,080 --> 00:39:59,520
salvation and the sword of the
Spirit, which is the word of

681
00:39:59,520 --> 00:40:01,760
God.
So in our spiritual battles, the

682
00:40:01,760 --> 00:40:05,120
scriptures are our sword.
But just like real swords, not

683
00:40:05,120 --> 00:40:07,080
all Canon of scripture are made
equal.

684
00:40:07,320 --> 00:40:09,400
You need to make sure that
you're entering the battle with

685
00:40:09,400 --> 00:40:11,720
the right gear.
With that thought in mind, Drew

686
00:40:11,720 --> 00:40:14,560
Brownie and others have been
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687
00:40:14,560 --> 00:40:17,160
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688
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00:40:19,840 --> 00:40:22,280
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The restored version is the most

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It was designed to honor Joseph

692
00:40:28,360 --> 00:40:32,000
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The restored version contains

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Great price, except it has
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Faith, which were removed in
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699
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702
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719
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721
00:42:02,800 --> 00:42:06,800
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722
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significance.
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723
00:42:09,240 --> 00:42:12,240
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724
00:42:12,240 --> 00:42:15,600
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731
00:42:37,360 --> 00:42:40,520
the original, and has been
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732
00:42:40,520 --> 00:42:43,960
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00:42:43,960 --> 00:42:47,720
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734
00:42:47,720 --> 00:42:51,480
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735
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736
00:42:54,920 --> 00:42:58,520
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737
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00:43:01,600 --> 00:43:03,800
it.
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Now to get your copy today, just
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743
00:43:20,200 --> 00:43:22,400
or click the link in this
episode show notes.

744
00:43:22,480 --> 00:43:26,680
Again, that is
www.restoredscriptures.com or

745
00:43:26,680 --> 00:43:29,680
click the link in this episode
show notes and order your copy

746
00:43:29,680 --> 00:43:32,640
today and arm you and your
family with the word of God.

747
00:43:32,880 --> 00:43:34,800
Now let's get back to our
conversation.

748
00:43:35,160 --> 00:43:37,320
All right, Justin, where was
that scripture at again?

749
00:43:37,760 --> 00:43:40,120
Yeah, we're going to look.
We're going to turn to Alma 30.

750
00:43:41,280 --> 00:43:43,400
And again, what we're going to
do here is we're going to look

751
00:43:43,400 --> 00:43:47,720
for an example of how the Book
of Mormon can give us the

752
00:43:47,720 --> 00:43:50,320
blueprints for how to establish
Zion.

753
00:43:50,320 --> 00:43:52,680
What does the political state of
Zion look like?

754
00:43:54,760 --> 00:43:59,000
So we've got to understand the,
the, the Nephites, they have the

755
00:43:59,000 --> 00:44:03,000
brass plates.
Possibly by taking the brass

756
00:44:03,000 --> 00:44:08,840
plates the the the Jews lost
their only reliable copy of

757
00:44:08,840 --> 00:44:10,680
these texts, I didn't think.
About that.

758
00:44:12,600 --> 00:44:15,160
This might be part of the reason
why there's a problem later on,

759
00:44:19,160 --> 00:44:27,560
Yoink, but regardless, we're
going to look at this as our

760
00:44:27,560 --> 00:44:29,680
guide for trying to understand
how this works.

761
00:44:29,680 --> 00:44:34,120
But we understand they do have.
I think it's undeniable.

762
00:44:34,120 --> 00:44:36,320
They've got a version of
Deuteronomy, right?

763
00:44:38,280 --> 00:44:41,280
They, they, So, but what does
their version of Deuteronomy

764
00:44:41,280 --> 00:44:43,920
say?
So there's some issues here,

765
00:44:43,920 --> 00:44:45,760
right?
Like do one of the things in if

766
00:44:45,760 --> 00:44:47,400
you were going to take
Deuteronomy literally,

767
00:44:47,400 --> 00:44:50,120
Deuteronomy 13 basically says if
anybody comes preaching a

768
00:44:50,120 --> 00:44:51,520
different God, you got to kill
him.

769
00:44:53,680 --> 00:44:58,800
That's obviously before Christ.
And if your family follows after

770
00:44:58,800 --> 00:45:02,000
that prophet, you got to kill
your family members.

771
00:45:03,160 --> 00:45:08,920
And if you have a city that goes
after a false God genocide, like

772
00:45:08,920 --> 00:45:14,040
wipe them all out.
So very strict, right?

773
00:45:14,560 --> 00:45:18,600
Very, very strict.
And I I decided to ask the

774
00:45:18,600 --> 00:45:23,440
question, if that was in the
version of Deuteronomy that

775
00:45:23,520 --> 00:45:28,040
Nephi bring across the ocean on
the brass plates, then is there

776
00:45:28,040 --> 00:45:33,440
evidence of that?
OK, let's find out.

777
00:45:34,040 --> 00:45:36,440
Let's find out.
So let me just share an example.

778
00:45:37,800 --> 00:45:41,440
Lehigh, before he dies, decides
he wants to give his children

779
00:45:41,440 --> 00:45:43,680
one last blessing, right?
So at the end of Second Nephi,

780
00:45:44,280 --> 00:45:52,400
and he blesses his grandchildren
from Lehman and Lemiel and he

781
00:45:52,400 --> 00:45:55,880
tells them, hey, you're going to
be blessed and preserved in a

782
00:45:55,880 --> 00:46:01,440
special manner because your
father's have taught you these

783
00:46:01,440 --> 00:46:04,880
false traditions, these false
religion.

784
00:46:06,440 --> 00:46:12,040
And if they hadn't lied to you
about this, you guys would have,

785
00:46:12,080 --> 00:46:13,720
you would have stayed in the
truth.

786
00:46:14,640 --> 00:46:20,080
But because of your father's
teaching and a false God, you're

787
00:46:20,080 --> 00:46:22,240
going to fall away.
But God will be merciful to you.

788
00:46:23,600 --> 00:46:26,040
Why doesn't Lehigh kill Lehman
and Lemuel?

789
00:46:27,440 --> 00:46:35,120
Does he not have Deuteronomy?
Several times.

790
00:46:35,120 --> 00:46:38,240
Are you disobedient?
Check.

791
00:46:38,240 --> 00:46:41,880
So, OK, that one applies.
Are they preaching a false God?

792
00:46:41,920 --> 00:46:42,640
Yeah.
Check.

793
00:46:42,640 --> 00:46:44,440
That one applies.
Do they lie?

794
00:46:45,120 --> 00:46:47,400
Yeah, They're kind of liars.
Check.

795
00:46:48,000 --> 00:46:51,400
I mean these guys are breaking
all of the commandments.

796
00:46:52,760 --> 00:46:55,480
And it's like they were
physically abusive to Nephi,

797
00:46:55,520 --> 00:46:58,440
right?
I mean, like, if you're Lehigh,

798
00:46:58,440 --> 00:47:01,800
you got to worry a little bit
about Nephi's health, right?

799
00:47:01,840 --> 00:47:04,640
Because I mean, they kick the
crap out of him when they're,

800
00:47:04,640 --> 00:47:08,880
you know, trying to get the
plates and then they tie him up

801
00:47:08,880 --> 00:47:13,680
on the boat, right?
They try to they try to to beat

802
00:47:13,680 --> 00:47:17,240
him again as he's building the
boat like.

803
00:47:18,080 --> 00:47:24,680
After Lehi dies, they go to war.
Yeah, like I've done from their

804
00:47:24,760 --> 00:47:26,720
first land in their first
temple.

805
00:47:27,200 --> 00:47:30,120
Yeah, I'm just thinking of
Lehigh's just Lehigh's life.

806
00:47:30,720 --> 00:47:32,240
Right.
He would have.

807
00:47:32,240 --> 00:47:36,960
He would have asked absolutely
if if that.

808
00:47:37,160 --> 00:47:41,720
Yeah, Yeah.
That's a good point.

809
00:47:42,600 --> 00:47:43,840
Right.
So where is that?

810
00:47:44,040 --> 00:47:46,800
If Deuteronomy, if they've got
that version of Deuteronomy,

811
00:47:47,160 --> 00:47:49,760
where why doesn't it manifest?
I think that would be like the

812
00:47:50,000 --> 00:47:53,840
ideal place for it to manifest.
Well, maybe God had special

813
00:47:53,840 --> 00:47:56,000
reasons.
OK, well let's look at some

814
00:47:56,000 --> 00:47:58,000
other places.
So here in Alma 30, we've got

815
00:47:58,000 --> 00:48:00,400
another case.
We're going to learn about the

816
00:48:00,400 --> 00:48:04,960
Nephites judge system and how
law works among the the judges.

817
00:48:04,960 --> 00:48:06,520
So we've got this guy named
Coral whore.

818
00:48:06,520 --> 00:48:10,520
He's an Antichrist.
He's, he is one of the worst

819
00:48:10,520 --> 00:48:14,000
Antichrist because he is
preaching humanism.

820
00:48:15,320 --> 00:48:20,320
He's teaching this Darwinism.
He is, this is man is God, and

821
00:48:20,320 --> 00:48:23,680
nothing you do in the pursuit of
your own power is wrong.

822
00:48:25,320 --> 00:48:31,120
The only evil would be to not
suppress the weak so that you

823
00:48:31,120 --> 00:48:33,320
can prop because I mean, I'm
superior, right?

824
00:48:33,320 --> 00:48:36,920
If I can oppress my brother,
then I'm better than my brother.

825
00:48:37,760 --> 00:48:41,200
And therefore, my brother
shouldn't continue, but my line

826
00:48:41,200 --> 00:48:46,000
should continue.
It's, it's a horrific theology,

827
00:48:46,040 --> 00:48:47,640
right?
And we, we were very familiar

828
00:48:47,640 --> 00:48:48,960
with this today.
We understand this, this is the

829
00:48:48,960 --> 00:48:50,920
law of the jungle.
This is, this is the results of

830
00:48:50,920 --> 00:48:53,120
Darwinism.
And it's this.

831
00:48:53,120 --> 00:48:58,120
And at least to this humanism, A
vile, vile doctrine.

832
00:48:58,480 --> 00:49:03,200
And Korohor, he's going around
preaching this and he preaches

833
00:49:03,200 --> 00:49:08,960
it to the city of Zarahemla.
And and you know, people aren't

834
00:49:08,960 --> 00:49:10,920
super, they're not super
impressed.

835
00:49:11,560 --> 00:49:13,520
And he goes to the anti Nephi
Lehighites.

836
00:49:13,520 --> 00:49:17,000
These are the Lamanite converts.
And he goes into their city.

837
00:49:17,000 --> 00:49:20,560
He tries preaching it to them.
And these guys, these guys are a

838
00:49:20,560 --> 00:49:22,960
little more zealous, but they're
also kind of new in the gospel,

839
00:49:22,960 --> 00:49:26,960
right?
They're like, this is the most

840
00:49:26,960 --> 00:49:30,360
horrific thing I've ever heard.
Tie that man up.

841
00:49:32,120 --> 00:49:33,760
And they do.
They tie him up.

842
00:49:34,320 --> 00:49:36,040
They tie him up.
They take him to their chief

843
00:49:36,040 --> 00:49:40,080
judge, their civil, they take
him to their government and

844
00:49:40,080 --> 00:49:46,600
they're like, this guy is
preaching a different God and

845
00:49:46,600 --> 00:49:50,840
trying to sway us to serve a
different God.

846
00:49:50,840 --> 00:49:52,800
He's teaching a different
theology.

847
00:49:53,680 --> 00:49:56,200
So he's a.
Which in the Old Testament.

848
00:49:56,200 --> 00:49:59,000
Was a killer defined?
And yeah, he's a he's a false

849
00:49:59,000 --> 00:50:01,160
prophet is defined in
Deuteronomy 13.

850
00:50:02,560 --> 00:50:04,840
What do we do with a false
prophet?

851
00:50:05,000 --> 00:50:11,680
Well, at the at the most you can
execute them at the most.

852
00:50:11,680 --> 00:50:15,600
That's that's a possibility.
And is coral is is what coral

853
00:50:15,600 --> 00:50:18,640
horse doing about as grievous as
you can get with this.

854
00:50:18,640 --> 00:50:22,120
It it really kind of is right.
This is a very pernicious

855
00:50:22,120 --> 00:50:25,280
doctrine.
This isn't hey, I disagree on on

856
00:50:26,160 --> 00:50:28,000
I disagree on blacks in the
priesthood.

857
00:50:28,840 --> 00:50:33,520
This is the difference between,
you know, fundamentalism and and

858
00:50:33,960 --> 00:50:37,760
anti Mormon or or Christian
nationalism that wants to, you

859
00:50:37,760 --> 00:50:39,720
know, destroy us for our faith
and belief.

860
00:50:40,560 --> 00:50:43,600
This is some heavy stuff.
This is and he's he's got a very

861
00:50:43,960 --> 00:50:47,840
corruptive, corrosive message.
So what did the judge do with

862
00:50:47,840 --> 00:50:50,320
him?
They catch him, they tied him

863
00:50:50,320 --> 00:50:51,440
up.
You bring him to the judge and

864
00:50:51,440 --> 00:50:56,760
the judge is like, what law did
he break?

865
00:51:02,440 --> 00:51:04,640
What, what verse are you you
looking at there, Justin,

866
00:51:04,640 --> 00:51:05,560
because.
I think I'm actually.

867
00:51:05,640 --> 00:51:08,320
I'm sorry, I'm paraphrasing the
story a little bit just from

868
00:51:08,320 --> 00:51:10,480
memory.
I would like, I would like to

869
00:51:10,480 --> 00:51:12,800
read, yeah.
There's the, there's the.

870
00:51:12,840 --> 00:51:15,680
Definitely some specific parts
in the text I wanted to get to.

871
00:51:16,080 --> 00:51:17,040
OK, cool.
Right.

872
00:51:17,840 --> 00:51:21,920
So the, and so they eventually,
they, they bring him.

873
00:51:21,920 --> 00:51:23,200
I'm just going to finish the
narration, right.

874
00:51:23,200 --> 00:51:25,960
Eventually they bring him to
Alma the prophet.

875
00:51:26,560 --> 00:51:28,880
And he's like, I don't know God,
what do you do with this guy?

876
00:51:29,400 --> 00:51:31,720
What do we do with this guy?
We don't know what to do with

877
00:51:31,720 --> 00:51:35,440
him because he's preaching a
different gospel, He's preaching

878
00:51:35,440 --> 00:51:37,200
against, he's preaching a
different God.

879
00:51:37,560 --> 00:51:39,720
He's causing problems in our
society.

880
00:51:40,640 --> 00:51:45,760
What do we do?
And what ultimately happens is,

881
00:51:46,080 --> 00:51:51,680
is he's excommunicated from the
church and released.

882
00:51:53,000 --> 00:51:58,120
He's not he, is he?
There's no governmental force

883
00:51:58,120 --> 00:52:01,320
punishment, there's no sanction.
They don't stone him like it

884
00:52:01,320 --> 00:52:04,320
says to in Deuteronomy.
They don't even have a less He's

885
00:52:04,320 --> 00:52:06,200
not fined.
He's not imprisoned.

886
00:52:06,720 --> 00:52:10,240
They let him go.
Why do they let him go?

887
00:52:10,240 --> 00:52:12,680
Well, Moroni is going to tell
us.

888
00:52:13,160 --> 00:52:17,240
He explains this.
So here in verse in Alma 30,

889
00:52:17,240 --> 00:52:19,640
verse 8.
For thus saith the Scripture,

890
00:52:19,640 --> 00:52:21,920
Choose ye this day whom you will
serve.

891
00:52:24,000 --> 00:52:25,760
Oh, oh, so we know that they've
got book of Joshua.

892
00:52:28,040 --> 00:52:31,720
But what does that mean?
This is Moroni's commentary.

893
00:52:32,840 --> 00:52:35,760
Now, if a man desired to serve
God, it was his privilege.

894
00:52:35,760 --> 00:52:38,880
Or rather, if he believed in
God, it was his privilege to

895
00:52:38,880 --> 00:52:41,440
serve him.
But if he did not believe in

896
00:52:41,440 --> 00:52:44,600
him, there was no law to punish
him.

897
00:52:48,240 --> 00:52:51,520
Does that sound familiar?
You know that's.

898
00:52:51,520 --> 00:52:56,360
Kind of go ahead.
Maybe Rodger Williams wasn't the

899
00:52:56,360 --> 00:53:01,240
first person in in North America
to come up with this idea of

900
00:53:01,240 --> 00:53:09,080
freedom of conscience.
But if he murdered, he was

901
00:53:09,080 --> 00:53:12,520
punished unto death.
OK, And that aligns with

902
00:53:12,520 --> 00:53:14,200
Deuteronomy.
Yeah.

903
00:53:15,080 --> 00:53:16,920
If he robbed, he was also
punished.

904
00:53:17,120 --> 00:53:20,000
If he stole, he was punished.
If he committed adultery, he was

905
00:53:20,000 --> 00:53:22,640
also punished.
Yeah, for all this wickedness

906
00:53:22,640 --> 00:53:30,720
they were punished for there was
a law that men should be judged

907
00:53:30,720 --> 00:53:34,640
according to their crimes.
Nevertheless, there was no law

908
00:53:34,640 --> 00:53:38,400
regarding a man's belief.
Therefore, a man was punished

909
00:53:38,400 --> 00:53:40,400
only for the crimes which he had
done.

910
00:53:40,400 --> 00:53:43,400
Therefore, all men were on equal
grounds.

911
00:53:45,960 --> 00:53:51,240
I mean, we could be done right
now, honestly, because it's it's

912
00:53:51,240 --> 00:53:53,840
right here.
The Book of Mormon is very clear

913
00:53:53,840 --> 00:53:57,120
that this Christian nationalist
attempt at overthrowing

914
00:53:57,120 --> 00:54:04,400
secularism, this is no bueno.
Where's the where's the law?

915
00:54:04,920 --> 00:54:08,000
It says that for there was a law
that men should be judged

916
00:54:08,000 --> 00:54:10,280
according to their crimes.
There's no law against a man's

917
00:54:10,280 --> 00:54:12,360
belief.
Yes there is.

918
00:54:13,480 --> 00:54:15,720
I've read the Old Testament.
There is.

919
00:54:18,320 --> 00:54:20,000
Why don't the Nephites think
there is?

920
00:54:23,280 --> 00:54:28,440
Oh, because.
They've got brass plates right.

921
00:54:28,880 --> 00:54:31,800
They've got a different, they've
got a different record than than

922
00:54:31,800 --> 00:54:36,400
than we do.
And it's important, this is

923
00:54:36,400 --> 00:54:41,600
really important to get right.
If you don't get percent right,

924
00:54:42,240 --> 00:54:47,080
if you follow the, the, the law
of Moses as a not as a non

925
00:54:47,080 --> 00:54:50,520
dispensationalist and you try to
make those laws, the laws of the

926
00:54:50,520 --> 00:54:55,600
land, right?
We're, we're back to bloodshed

927
00:54:55,600 --> 00:54:59,840
and wars over religion, whether
it's Catholics killing

928
00:54:59,840 --> 00:55:02,720
Catholics, Catholics, the
Papists and the, and the

929
00:55:02,720 --> 00:55:07,200
Protestants, the, the, the, the
pilgrims in Indians, I mean, all

930
00:55:07,200 --> 00:55:10,880
this stuff, right?
This unending bloodshed.

931
00:55:11,880 --> 00:55:14,440
Is that what Christ wants?
That's why you I think at a

932
00:55:14,440 --> 00:55:16,920
certain point we have to ask
ourselves, what does Christ,

933
00:55:16,920 --> 00:55:21,120
what is a Christian nation?
I believe that the Book Mormon

934
00:55:21,120 --> 00:55:24,000
is telling us right here, a
Christian nation is 1 where all

935
00:55:24,000 --> 00:55:27,800
men are on equal grounds.
That is a Christian nation.

936
00:55:29,160 --> 00:55:33,080
Regardless of their beliefs.
Regardless of their beliefs that

937
00:55:33,080 --> 00:55:37,000
that is what God wants.
This is what the War in Heaven

938
00:55:37,000 --> 00:55:42,200
was fought over, right?
That's where I was going to go.

939
00:55:42,280 --> 00:55:47,840
We're talking about agency here.
And if Abraham, it tells us

940
00:55:47,840 --> 00:55:51,040
this, that man was created to
see if, if we would do all

941
00:55:51,040 --> 00:55:54,680
things whatsoever, the Lord our
God shall command us.

942
00:55:55,240 --> 00:55:59,200
We're here to be tested, to see
if we will obey God.

943
00:56:00,280 --> 00:56:03,640
It doesn't say that we're here
to be coerced into obeying God.

944
00:56:04,840 --> 00:56:10,800
We don't need to create a fallen
secular or not secular, but we

945
00:56:11,200 --> 00:56:16,240
don't need to create a a
religious state to enforce God's

946
00:56:16,240 --> 00:56:18,600
law.
That's not why we're here.

947
00:56:18,760 --> 00:56:21,040
We are here to be tested and
tried and judged.

948
00:56:21,600 --> 00:56:23,760
We're here to figure out who we
are.

949
00:56:23,800 --> 00:56:26,280
Are we the kind of person who's
going to stand up in the face of

950
00:56:26,280 --> 00:56:28,400
oppression?
Are we going to, are we going to

951
00:56:28,400 --> 00:56:30,000
bow down?
Are we going to turn our face

952
00:56:30,000 --> 00:56:32,320
the other direction?
Are we going to take up the

953
00:56:32,320 --> 00:56:36,080
sword against our brethren for
incorrect beliefs?

954
00:56:37,200 --> 00:56:39,080
That's exactly what we're here
to do.

955
00:56:39,160 --> 00:56:42,960
This plan doesn't work in this
Christian nationalist utopia.

956
00:56:44,560 --> 00:56:48,680
Right.
There has to be even at the end,

957
00:56:48,680 --> 00:56:51,360
and I agree with Doug, is how we
get to Zion.

958
00:56:52,000 --> 00:56:56,080
We get there conversion step by
step.

959
00:56:56,560 --> 00:56:59,360
It's Zion starts in the heart,
not as a city.

960
00:56:59,840 --> 00:57:01,800
That's how we got to get there,
but what does it look like when

961
00:57:01,800 --> 00:57:04,360
we get there?
He says once we get there,

962
00:57:04,840 --> 00:57:07,920
parents can have their children
killed for disobedience.

963
00:57:09,360 --> 00:57:17,040
No, no, people will have freedom
of conscience even in Zion.

964
00:57:19,640 --> 00:57:25,000
And we have this texture telling
us this story of Korahor to

965
00:57:25,000 --> 00:57:27,920
illustrate exactly why this is
so important.

966
00:57:28,160 --> 00:57:29,840
Because we don't get this in the
Bible.

967
00:57:29,960 --> 00:57:32,280
If we just follow the Bible,
we're going to end up going down

968
00:57:32,800 --> 00:57:36,080
a very, very wrong path.
Or at least we're going to have

969
00:57:36,080 --> 00:57:40,120
the wrong idea in our head about
what, what, what we're going

970
00:57:40,120 --> 00:57:41,920
towards.
What, what does Zion look like?

971
00:57:44,240 --> 00:57:46,880
And I'd even argue, how can we
establish Zion if we don't

972
00:57:46,880 --> 00:57:49,320
understand, right?
The lectures on faith tell us

973
00:57:49,320 --> 00:57:51,280
that in order to have faith in
something, you have to have a

974
00:57:51,440 --> 00:57:54,880
correct understanding of it.
In order to have faith in God,

975
00:57:54,880 --> 00:57:57,600
we've got to know who God is.
Right.

976
00:57:58,000 --> 00:58:00,520
How can we have faith in Zion if
we don't understand what Zion

977
00:58:00,520 --> 00:58:02,440
is?
If we think Zion is what the

978
00:58:02,440 --> 00:58:06,280
Christian nationalists are
selling, then how can we have

979
00:58:06,280 --> 00:58:07,880
faith in it?
If we don't have faith in it,

980
00:58:08,520 --> 00:58:11,480
where is the power?
Faith as a principle of action?

981
00:58:11,520 --> 00:58:15,240
How are we going to get there?
So yeah, if we don't.

982
00:58:15,360 --> 00:58:18,880
If we don't know the
destination, we don't have a

983
00:58:18,880 --> 00:58:22,880
map.
Good luck.

984
00:58:23,520 --> 00:58:25,040
You're, you're, you're up in the
night.

985
00:58:25,600 --> 00:58:31,320
You, you will be lost, dude,
that shit.

986
00:58:31,840 --> 00:58:33,920
And the implications are
amazing, right?

987
00:58:33,920 --> 00:58:39,960
Like, I think when we start
talking about Zion, we have to

988
00:58:39,960 --> 00:58:42,360
look towards the restoration for
that.

989
00:58:43,880 --> 00:58:46,520
There's too much there that
you've shown in first Nephi and

990
00:58:46,520 --> 00:58:50,600
then in Alma to show that they
are operating somewhat

991
00:58:50,600 --> 00:58:54,480
differently.
Yeah, I think so.

992
00:58:54,720 --> 00:58:58,240
So we can move on because I
mean, I, there's lots more in

993
00:58:58,240 --> 00:59:00,600
the Book of Mormon on this.
Obviously, I I, but we, we

994
00:59:00,600 --> 00:59:02,800
could, we could do with this as
a in fact, that might be a

995
00:59:02,800 --> 00:59:05,880
really cool thing to do is maybe
come back into a future podcast

996
00:59:05,880 --> 00:59:09,560
talking about a vision for Zion.
Yeah, yeah, I'm down.

997
00:59:10,960 --> 00:59:12,600
I'm down.
Salivating.

998
00:59:12,640 --> 00:59:15,400
Already for that one, let's look
at Joseph Smith and Brigham

999
00:59:15,400 --> 00:59:17,320
Young.
What did they have to say about

1000
00:59:17,640 --> 00:59:19,760
Christian nationalism?
Right.

1001
00:59:20,440 --> 00:59:23,840
All right, well, this is Joseph
Smith in Doctrine Covenant

1002
00:59:23,840 --> 00:59:29,000
section 134 via revelation from
the Lord canonized accepted by

1003
00:59:29,000 --> 00:59:36,400
the Church verse 9 and this is
these are we do not believe it

1004
00:59:36,400 --> 00:59:39,800
just to mingle religious
influence with civil government

1005
00:59:42,800 --> 00:59:45,560
comma.
Now there's going to be a clause

1006
00:59:45,560 --> 00:59:47,480
here, right?
As a Gen., That's the general

1007
00:59:47,480 --> 00:59:48,600
principle.
But now there's going to be an

1008
00:59:48,600 --> 00:59:53,200
exception, right?
It's qualified whereby it's

1009
00:59:53,200 --> 00:59:55,280
actually not.
This is the qualification

1010
00:59:55,280 --> 01:00:00,040
whereby one religious society is
fostered and another prescribed

1011
01:00:00,040 --> 01:00:03,480
in its spiritual privileges and
the individual rights of its

1012
01:00:03,480 --> 01:00:05,880
members, citizen as citizens
denied.

1013
01:00:07,880 --> 01:00:10,800
OK.
It's, it's right there, right?

1014
01:00:10,800 --> 01:00:13,320
This is, this is not Christian
nationalism.

1015
01:00:13,320 --> 01:00:17,520
This is the opposite.
Absolutely.

1016
01:00:18,040 --> 01:00:19,000
Absolutely.
Yeah.

1017
01:00:19,040 --> 01:00:25,840
No, this, this right here, it's
telling you what quote we

1018
01:00:25,840 --> 01:00:29,040
believe, right?
This is Joseph laying it out

1019
01:00:30,960 --> 01:00:38,760
that that that civil government
cannot favor one religion over

1020
01:00:38,760 --> 01:00:40,320
another.
But that's exactly what

1021
01:00:40,320 --> 01:00:42,280
Christian nationalism is aiming
to do.

1022
01:00:42,960 --> 01:00:47,200
Right now, it's important to say
that we do not believe a just

1023
01:00:47,200 --> 01:00:50,840
Domingo religious influence with
civil government in that case,

1024
01:00:51,560 --> 01:00:55,520
which means in the other cases
this is allowed, which goes to

1025
01:00:55,520 --> 01:00:57,920
Doug Wilson's point that he was
making earlier in that video.

1026
01:00:58,400 --> 01:01:04,560
Like we can, we can be
Christians in the in, in Babylon

1027
01:01:04,560 --> 01:01:06,480
in.
The public square.

1028
01:01:06,600 --> 01:01:11,040
In that public square in the
world, we can live our faith in

1029
01:01:11,040 --> 01:01:14,360
that world.
That's OK.

1030
01:01:15,040 --> 01:01:18,160
I can be, I can, I can choose to
try to get elected for I mean,

1031
01:01:18,160 --> 01:01:22,200
jeez, Joseph Smith tried to get
elected president, right?

1032
01:01:22,440 --> 01:01:24,080
I can try to get elected
president.

1033
01:01:24,080 --> 01:01:26,560
That's OK.
And if I was president, I would

1034
01:01:27,160 --> 01:01:32,880
make decisions based off of my
moral, my moral convictions as a

1035
01:01:32,880 --> 01:01:37,760
Mormon.
And that's OK, as long as those

1036
01:01:37,760 --> 01:01:42,760
moral convictions don't lead to
a situation where one religious

1037
01:01:42,760 --> 01:01:46,480
society is fostered and another
proscribed, In other words,

1038
01:01:46,520 --> 01:01:49,320
another one coerced in its
spiritual privileges.

1039
01:01:50,240 --> 01:01:52,880
Right.
And the individual rights of its

1040
01:01:52,880 --> 01:02:00,480
members as citizens denied.
So we demand the possibility of

1041
01:02:00,480 --> 01:02:05,800
pluralism as Mormons.
Yeah, Joseph Smith not down with

1042
01:02:05,800 --> 01:02:08,400
the.
Yeah, Joseph Smith, not down

1043
01:02:08,400 --> 01:02:11,680
with the Christian nationalism.
Well, and why would they, they,

1044
01:02:11,720 --> 01:02:14,200
the, the, the Christian
nationalists of his day are

1045
01:02:14,240 --> 01:02:15,960
tried to kill him and eventually
did.

1046
01:02:20,720 --> 01:02:22,840
So I've I've got I've got some
more here.

1047
01:02:22,840 --> 01:02:24,880
This is more specifically about
Zion.

1048
01:02:28,960 --> 01:02:32,240
Well, actually, first this is
just fascinating, but this is so

1049
01:02:32,240 --> 01:02:35,240
after Joseph Smith gets run out
of what they get.

1050
01:02:35,400 --> 01:02:38,240
I mean, they're out of New York,
they're out of Pennsylvania,

1051
01:02:38,240 --> 01:02:39,520
right?
They're, they're getting chased

1052
01:02:39,520 --> 01:02:42,360
all over the place, kicked out
of Missouri, and eventually they

1053
01:02:42,360 --> 01:02:44,320
go to Illinois, right?
And they and they and they're

1054
01:02:44,320 --> 01:02:46,640
going to establish Nauvoo.
Right.

1055
01:02:48,120 --> 01:02:50,880
This is they get a special
charter from the state of

1056
01:02:50,880 --> 01:02:54,360
Illinois where Nauvoo is almost
a city state in in its rights.

1057
01:02:54,400 --> 01:02:55,360
Right.
Yep.

1058
01:02:55,920 --> 01:02:57,960
Right.
So this is literally a place

1059
01:02:57,960 --> 01:03:02,880
where Joseph Smith is kind of
legally, in a sense, king.

1060
01:03:03,120 --> 01:03:06,440
If you wanted to establish
Christian nationalism, he's got

1061
01:03:06,440 --> 01:03:09,480
permission from the state of
Illinois in Nauvoo to do so.

1062
01:03:10,560 --> 01:03:13,240
So what does Joseph Smith
establish?

1063
01:03:14,160 --> 01:03:17,240
This is ordinances in relation
to religious societies.

1064
01:03:17,240 --> 01:03:23,120
City of Nauvoo, 1841 Be it
ordained by the City Council of

1065
01:03:23,120 --> 01:03:26,000
the City of Nauvoo, that the
Catholics, Presbyterians,

1066
01:03:26,000 --> 01:03:29,440
Methodist, Baptist, Latter Day
Saints, Quakers, Episcopals,

1067
01:03:29,880 --> 01:03:33,640
Universalist, Unitarians,
Muhammadians, in other words,

1068
01:03:33,640 --> 01:03:34,680
Muslims.
Muslims.

1069
01:03:35,400 --> 01:03:39,880
And all other religious sects
and denominations whatever shall

1070
01:03:39,880 --> 01:03:44,640
have free toleration and equal
privileges in this city.

1071
01:03:46,400 --> 01:03:48,840
It does not fit the Christian
nationalist model.

1072
01:03:49,080 --> 01:03:51,120
It just can't.
Yeah, it doesn't fit.

1073
01:03:51,680 --> 01:03:55,320
It just can't the.
Scriptures.

1074
01:03:55,320 --> 01:03:58,560
The revelations when Joseph
Smith has a chance to put pen to

1075
01:03:58,560 --> 01:04:01,720
paper.
When he gets to enact

1076
01:04:01,760 --> 01:04:05,840
essentially, and look, I know
some people say, well, Joseph

1077
01:04:05,840 --> 01:04:11,080
really wasn't trying to create a
Zionist, a Zion in on the

1078
01:04:11,080 --> 01:04:13,200
Mississippi.
I disagree with that.

1079
01:04:13,520 --> 01:04:15,720
Yeah, I disagree with that
wholeheartedly.

1080
01:04:16,040 --> 01:04:20,080
You can hear by the way he talks
that his vision for the city of

1081
01:04:20,080 --> 01:04:23,040
the Saints and other people can
walk up to it.

1082
01:04:23,320 --> 01:04:28,440
All nations are going to float
in Nauvoo, he said, right, All

1083
01:04:28,440 --> 01:04:30,640
nations are going to come in
here and they're going to

1084
01:04:30,640 --> 01:04:33,120
OfferUp their prayers and
they're going to participate in

1085
01:04:33,120 --> 01:04:38,240
these ordinances.
And so he is trying to establish

1086
01:04:38,240 --> 01:04:41,520
a Zion type society.
People say, well, why didn't he

1087
01:04:41,520 --> 01:04:43,600
try to bring back United Order
at that time?

1088
01:04:43,600 --> 01:04:45,760
Well, they're all pretty
destitute, right?

1089
01:04:45,760 --> 01:04:47,800
Let's be clear.
No one's rolling under the dough

1090
01:04:48,320 --> 01:04:52,560
to kick start that bad boy.
And it's at some level to kick

1091
01:04:52,560 --> 01:04:55,800
start a united order.
You have to have resources.

1092
01:04:55,960 --> 01:04:58,560
Well, and they kind of are too,
actually.

1093
01:04:58,560 --> 01:05:01,320
But it's a United order focused
on building the temple first and

1094
01:05:01,320 --> 01:05:02,800
foremost.
Right.

1095
01:05:03,160 --> 01:05:05,560
Well, and also Joseph was
pushing for that.

1096
01:05:05,560 --> 01:05:08,760
If you go back and look at the
records, you have talks from him

1097
01:05:08,760 --> 01:05:12,560
where he says when you can do
business with other Mormons,

1098
01:05:12,560 --> 01:05:15,720
right?
He is starting to to to start

1099
01:05:15,720 --> 01:05:18,800
that process again, back up
understanding it's going to take

1100
01:05:18,800 --> 01:05:21,840
a hot minute to get everyone
back on the same page.

1101
01:05:22,160 --> 01:05:24,640
And so I don't buy the thing
that Joseph wasn't trying to

1102
01:05:24,640 --> 01:05:27,560
establish a Zion society on the
banks of the Mississippi.

1103
01:05:27,840 --> 01:05:31,240
I think he absolutely was and
history bears that out.

1104
01:05:32,480 --> 01:05:35,840
And with that being said, if
that's the case, he's obviously

1105
01:05:35,840 --> 01:05:41,160
saying all are welcomed in Zion
as long as you uphold the laws

1106
01:05:41,160 --> 01:05:43,520
here, right?
Don't care what you believe, but

1107
01:05:43,520 --> 01:05:48,480
you got to uphold the laws.
Right.

1108
01:05:49,000 --> 01:05:52,280
So this is one line.
This is now we're going to go to

1109
01:05:52,280 --> 01:05:55,840
Brigham Young and this wait.
Brigham never has anything good

1110
01:05:55,840 --> 01:05:57,920
to say, right?
I mean, he's always.

1111
01:05:58,080 --> 01:06:00,080
Never.
He's always mean.

1112
01:06:00,080 --> 01:06:03,720
This is Journal of Discourses
volume 2, Discourse 47.

1113
01:06:03,720 --> 01:06:05,440
I'm not going to read the whole
thing.

1114
01:06:05,440 --> 01:06:07,280
I'm just going to read an
excerpt.

1115
01:06:07,280 --> 01:06:11,480
OK.
When the nations shall see the

1116
01:06:11,480 --> 01:06:15,560
glory of God together, the
spirit of their feelings may be

1117
01:06:15,560 --> 01:06:17,480
couched in these words.
Quote.

1118
01:06:17,880 --> 01:06:21,640
I will be damned if I will serve
you in those days.

1119
01:06:21,720 --> 01:06:26,560
The Methodists and Presbyterians
headed by their priests will not

1120
01:06:26,560 --> 01:06:30,920
be allowed to form into a mob to
drive, kill and rob the Latter

1121
01:06:30,920 --> 01:06:34,160
Day Saints.
Neither will the Latter Day

1122
01:06:34,160 --> 01:06:37,040
Saints be allowed to rise up and
say we will kill you,

1123
01:06:37,040 --> 01:06:39,840
Methodists, Presbyterians,
etcetera.

1124
01:06:40,600 --> 01:06:43,360
Neither will any of the
different sects of Christendom

1125
01:06:43,360 --> 01:06:45,560
be allowed to persecute each
other.

1126
01:06:46,840 --> 01:06:52,840
OK, so again from Brigham, this
time from Brigham.

1127
01:06:52,840 --> 01:06:55,280
But he goes on.
Well, what will they do?

1128
01:06:56,160 --> 01:07:00,000
They will hear of the wisdom of
Zion, and the kings and

1129
01:07:00,000 --> 01:07:03,120
pontanates of the nations will
come up to Zion and inquire

1130
01:07:03,120 --> 01:07:07,080
after the ways of the Lord, and
to seek out the great knowledge,

1131
01:07:07,080 --> 01:07:09,920
wisdom and understanding
manifest through the Saints of

1132
01:07:09,920 --> 01:07:12,640
the Most High.
They will inform the people of

1133
01:07:12,640 --> 01:07:15,800
God that they belong to such and
such a church and do not wish to

1134
01:07:15,800 --> 01:07:20,000
change their religion.
OK, so they're going to come

1135
01:07:20,000 --> 01:07:22,240
here and they're going to be
like, hey, I'm a I'm a Baptist.

1136
01:07:22,240 --> 01:07:25,360
I don't want to be a Mormon.
I want to be a Baptist, but I

1137
01:07:25,360 --> 01:07:27,600
want to I'm here, I'm at here, I
am at Zion.

1138
01:07:27,600 --> 01:07:30,120
And I don't want to serve.
I don't want to serve the devil

1139
01:07:30,120 --> 01:07:31,840
and and the world as it's
falling apart.

1140
01:07:31,840 --> 01:07:33,440
I want to I.
Don't want to raise my sword

1141
01:07:33,440 --> 01:07:35,440
against my neighbor.
Yeah, yeah.

1142
01:07:35,440 --> 01:07:38,200
And I want to maybe I want to
raise my children a place of

1143
01:07:38,200 --> 01:07:43,840
stability and peace.
What are they going to do?

1144
01:07:43,840 --> 01:07:45,480
They're going to be like, well,
I don't want to give up.

1145
01:07:45,520 --> 01:07:49,560
So is is is Zion Mormon
nationalism?

1146
01:07:52,040 --> 01:07:56,560
No, no, right.
They will be drawn to Zion by

1147
01:07:56,560 --> 01:07:59,680
the great wisdom displayed there
and will attribute it to the

1148
01:07:59,680 --> 01:08:03,160
cunning and craftiness of men.
It will be asked, what do you

1149
01:08:03,160 --> 01:08:05,480
want to do, ye strangers from
afar?

1150
01:08:06,200 --> 01:08:08,000
We want to live our own
religion.

1151
01:08:08,840 --> 01:08:11,200
Will you bow the knee before God
with us?

1152
01:08:13,640 --> 01:08:16,680
Will you maybe enter into a
covenant?

1153
01:08:18,920 --> 01:08:19,960
Yeah.
We're going to keep you.

1154
01:08:19,960 --> 01:08:26,160
Kneel with us as we address God.
We want to live our own

1155
01:08:26,160 --> 01:08:28,560
religion.
Will you, will you bow the knee

1156
01:08:28,600 --> 01:08:32,000
before God with us?
Oh, yes, we would as soon do it

1157
01:08:32,000 --> 01:08:36,560
as not.
And at the very time and at that

1158
01:08:36,560 --> 01:08:40,000
time, every knee shall bow and
every tongue acknowledge that

1159
01:08:40,000 --> 01:08:43,000
God who is the framer and maker
of all things, the governor and

1160
01:08:43,000 --> 01:08:46,520
controller of the universe, He
will have to bow and knee.

1161
01:08:47,040 --> 01:08:50,000
Then he shall confess that he is
God and that Jesus Christ, who

1162
01:08:50,000 --> 01:08:52,640
suffered for the sins of the
world is actually its Redeemer.

1163
01:08:53,160 --> 01:08:55,800
That by the shedding of his
blood he has redeemed men,

1164
01:08:55,800 --> 01:08:59,479
women, children, beasts, birds,
fish, the earth, it earth

1165
01:08:59,479 --> 01:09:02,960
itself, and everything that John
saw and heard praising heaven.

1166
01:09:02,960 --> 01:09:04,560
Oh, so we are going to make him
be Mormons.

1167
01:09:06,960 --> 01:09:09,720
Well, we're a little more
clarification.

1168
01:09:10,520 --> 01:09:13,520
They will ask if I bow the knee
and confess that he is that

1169
01:09:13,520 --> 01:09:15,800
Savior, the Christ to the glory
of the Father.

1170
01:09:15,800 --> 01:09:18,120
Will you let me go home and be a
Presbyterian?

1171
01:09:19,520 --> 01:09:22,120
Yes.
And not persecute me?

1172
01:09:22,520 --> 01:09:25,680
Never.
Won't you let me go home and

1173
01:09:25,680 --> 01:09:27,479
belong to the Greek church?
Yes.

1174
01:09:27,920 --> 01:09:31,040
Will you allow me to be a friend
Quaker or a shaking Quaker?

1175
01:09:31,080 --> 01:09:33,080
Oh yes.
Anything you wish to be.

1176
01:09:33,080 --> 01:09:38,800
But remember that you must not
persecute your neighbors, but

1177
01:09:38,800 --> 01:09:41,479
you must mind your own business
and let your neighbors alone,

1178
01:09:41,720 --> 01:09:45,359
and let them worship the sun,
the moon, a white dog, or

1179
01:09:45,359 --> 01:09:48,439
anything else they please, being
mindful that every knee has got

1180
01:09:48,439 --> 01:09:52,080
to bow and every tongue Confess
when he have paid this tribute

1181
01:09:52,080 --> 01:09:54,279
to the Most High who created you
and preserves you.

1182
01:09:54,680 --> 01:09:58,760
You may then go and worship what
you please or do what you please

1183
01:09:58,760 --> 01:10:00,920
if you do not infringe upon your
neighbors.

1184
01:10:03,280 --> 01:10:09,480
Dude, Zion is not the picture of
Mormon nationalism, right?

1185
01:10:10,040 --> 01:10:12,800
It is.
It is something different.

1186
01:10:13,120 --> 01:10:15,840
Now, that's Brigham Young.
And let's face it, when you talk

1187
01:10:15,840 --> 01:10:19,000
about imparting OK, earmuffs for
the little kids, it's not a

1188
01:10:19,000 --> 01:10:21,040
horrible word.
But earmuffs, you've been

1189
01:10:21,040 --> 01:10:23,600
warned.
When you talk about the ultimate

1190
01:10:23,600 --> 01:10:26,960
hard asses and Mormonism,
there's not one much harder than

1191
01:10:26,960 --> 01:10:30,600
Brigham, right?
And for Brigham to be like, no,

1192
01:10:30,600 --> 01:10:33,680
you can hang.
I expect that you people will

1193
01:10:33,680 --> 01:10:35,520
hang, right?
We'll be all right.

1194
01:10:35,520 --> 01:10:36,600
We'll figure.
This out not from.

1195
01:10:36,600 --> 01:10:41,360
Trees, right?
Not very good.

1196
01:10:41,360 --> 01:10:45,840
I like that one.
We can hang and not from trees.

1197
01:10:46,160 --> 01:10:47,000
Right.
Right.

1198
01:10:47,120 --> 01:10:49,120
No, but that.
But it's the truth, right?

1199
01:10:49,200 --> 01:10:54,640
Like Zion's going to be a place
where different religions may be

1200
01:10:54,640 --> 01:10:57,320
in different strata, so to
speak, right?

1201
01:10:57,640 --> 01:10:59,000
Yeah, they're going to get
along.

1202
01:10:59,720 --> 01:11:01,680
That there's a way for us to get
along right.

1203
01:11:01,960 --> 01:11:05,680
The Book of Mormon is saying
that the doctor in covenants is

1204
01:11:05,680 --> 01:11:08,920
saying that Joseph Smith is
teaching that Brigham Young is

1205
01:11:08,920 --> 01:11:13,240
giving us this vision of that.
There is nothing, I would argue,

1206
01:11:13,560 --> 01:11:18,360
and, and, and there's nothing
more Mormon than pluralism in

1207
01:11:18,360 --> 01:11:21,760
the government.
That is the foundation of Zion.

1208
01:11:22,880 --> 01:11:25,880
That is what is testified in our
in our scripture, is what has

1209
01:11:25,880 --> 01:11:28,360
been taught by our prophet, is
what we've been given through

1210
01:11:28,360 --> 01:11:31,960
revelations.
And it's also the opposite of

1211
01:11:31,960 --> 01:11:35,000
which that almost killed us and
did kill the prophet.

1212
01:11:36,200 --> 01:11:38,640
Yeah.
The absence of.

1213
01:11:38,640 --> 01:11:46,960
Which 100%, and I don't know
where you're at in your

1214
01:11:46,960 --> 01:11:51,160
presentation here, but this is
where I want to tell people do

1215
01:11:51,160 --> 01:11:55,680
not fix your gaze upon and I'm
just going to say it like I feel

1216
01:11:55,680 --> 01:11:57,840
it here.
If you set your eyes on

1217
01:11:57,840 --> 01:12:01,320
Christian nationalism is the
answer in the ills to our or the

1218
01:12:01,320 --> 01:12:07,400
solution to our ills, you will
worship a false Theo political

1219
01:12:07,960 --> 01:12:12,600
idol.
What God is after is a place

1220
01:12:12,600 --> 01:12:17,760
where his children can come to
him in their own time, in their

1221
01:12:17,760 --> 01:12:22,400
own way, and be left to their
with their rights and their

1222
01:12:22,400 --> 01:12:24,600
will.
There is no other religion on

1223
01:12:24,600 --> 01:12:28,840
earth that puts as much emphasis
on man doing the right thing

1224
01:12:28,840 --> 01:12:32,600
because that's what he wants and
feels he should do than

1225
01:12:32,600 --> 01:12:35,440
Mormonism.
Every other place you got to

1226
01:12:35,440 --> 01:12:40,080
deal with predestination, you
got to deal with with this, that

1227
01:12:40,080 --> 01:12:44,080
that sort of thing where where
choice becomes, yeah, I don't

1228
01:12:44,080 --> 01:12:47,320
know, abjicated to the back,
right?

1229
01:12:47,800 --> 01:12:51,840
This is the place where where
God wants your heart, but he's

1230
01:12:51,840 --> 01:12:53,640
going to give you the space to
get there.

1231
01:12:54,600 --> 01:12:58,760
And that does not look like
Christian nationalism.

1232
01:12:59,280 --> 01:13:02,680
So fix for those listening, fix
your eyes on Zion.

1233
01:13:02,680 --> 01:13:05,440
Study Zion.
What is that supposed to look

1234
01:13:05,440 --> 01:13:07,720
like?
And that will inform you how you

1235
01:13:07,720 --> 01:13:12,120
should probably behave going
forward if that is the desire

1236
01:13:12,120 --> 01:13:16,280
you want.
Yeah, absolutely.

1237
01:13:16,520 --> 01:13:18,920
So, yeah, I think that's a
great, a great segue.

1238
01:13:18,920 --> 01:13:21,760
Let's talk a little bit about
why not Christian nationalism?

1239
01:13:21,920 --> 01:13:23,480
What's, what's the big deal
here?

1240
01:13:24,520 --> 01:13:27,640
Why did I want to even do this
podcast with you talking on this

1241
01:13:27,640 --> 01:13:30,880
topic?
Because I, I think there's

1242
01:13:30,880 --> 01:13:34,200
definitely some things that we
need to, to be concerned about

1243
01:13:34,200 --> 01:13:37,680
with the, with the Christian
nationalist movement beyond just

1244
01:13:37,680 --> 01:13:42,680
whether we agree or not, right.
So I'm going to share, if you

1245
01:13:42,680 --> 01:13:45,560
don't mind another clip.
Absolutely.

1246
01:13:46,440 --> 01:13:56,240
This is a clip from the debate
that is a kind of a more typical

1247
01:13:57,440 --> 01:14:01,040
Protestant debating Doug Wilson
as a Christian nationalist.

1248
01:14:02,160 --> 01:14:07,840
And he he does not agree with
Doug on these ideas, but he's

1249
01:14:07,840 --> 01:14:10,640
trying to, they're trying to
figure stuff out, right?

1250
01:14:10,640 --> 01:14:15,640
They're having this discussion.
So this is this is part of some

1251
01:14:15,640 --> 01:14:22,080
of that debate. 6 here we go.
And so the other pastor here,

1252
01:14:22,080 --> 01:14:25,840
what he does is he he, he's
concerned that Doug Wilson is

1253
01:14:25,840 --> 01:14:30,720
stirring people up to fear that
he's got them kind of psyched

1254
01:14:30,720 --> 01:14:33,720
up.
We got to take to the streets.

1255
01:14:33,720 --> 01:14:35,280
We got to take this country
back.

1256
01:14:35,320 --> 01:14:37,240
Grab your guns.
We're going to, we're going to

1257
01:14:38,600 --> 01:14:44,160
land of Canaan, this Babylon,
right?

1258
01:14:44,800 --> 01:14:48,320
If I were a Machiavellian, I
could build a huge website

1259
01:14:48,440 --> 01:14:52,080
catering to evangelicals.
That was just fear porn, you

1260
01:14:52,080 --> 01:14:53,320
know?
Oh no, Oh no.

1261
01:14:53,320 --> 01:14:55,840
Oh no, Oh no.
And.

1262
01:14:55,880 --> 01:14:58,240
I mean, that's, that's one of my
main concerns here.

1263
01:14:58,720 --> 01:15:03,240
But let but let me share the
concern and point to something

1264
01:15:04,400 --> 01:15:08,040
in in Moscow, where we've been
working at building a Christian

1265
01:15:08,040 --> 01:15:10,840
community for decades.
I know what you're talking

1266
01:15:10,840 --> 01:15:14,000
about, and that's not what we're
doing.

1267
01:15:14,200 --> 01:15:17,520
Yeah, but you're writing your
writings in the writings of

1268
01:15:17,520 --> 01:15:21,240
others are doing that so, so.
I don't think so, because.

1269
01:15:21,240 --> 01:15:24,240
I'm going to quote, let me
quote, let me quote here, Toby.

1270
01:15:24,240 --> 01:15:28,040
Let me quote Toby for a minute.
Our culture, the Christian W,

1271
01:15:28,040 --> 01:15:33,400
what is left of it is in the
last gasping hours of stage 4,

1272
01:15:33,400 --> 01:15:38,800
terminal cancer, secularism has
metastasized, and it's all in

1273
01:15:38,800 --> 01:15:42,520
our organs and lymph nodes.
And then he goes.

1274
01:15:42,560 --> 01:15:45,360
So if anything, we're not
pugnacious enough.

1275
01:15:46,360 --> 01:15:49,360
We're not fierce enough.
And if I quoted Ben Crenshaw

1276
01:15:49,360 --> 01:15:53,520
here, which you gave, you gave
another one.

1277
01:15:53,520 --> 01:15:57,120
I want to see a return to
political Protestantism that can

1278
01:15:57,120 --> 01:16:00,120
rule a nation wisely through
civil law, fashion, rhetoric,

1279
01:16:00,520 --> 01:16:03,160
technology and more.
Alternative cultural movements

1280
01:16:03,160 --> 01:16:06,400
are fine for now, but at some
point Christians in America will

1281
01:16:06,400 --> 01:16:09,560
have to get comfortable with
coming, becoming explicitly

1282
01:16:09,560 --> 01:16:13,480
political again, and taking the
reins of power in Washington.

1283
01:16:13,480 --> 01:16:16,320
Wow, wow, wow, wow.
OK, so you'll.

1284
01:16:16,800 --> 01:16:18,400
I don't know, pause for a second
there, right?

1285
01:16:18,760 --> 01:16:21,880
So he's reading some, he's
reading some quotes from some of

1286
01:16:21,880 --> 01:16:23,280
these Christian nationalists,
right?

1287
01:16:23,880 --> 01:16:27,320
And this is what I'm hearing,
Like that first one talked about

1288
01:16:27,320 --> 01:16:32,400
cancer, right?
I am hearing fear, right?

1289
01:16:33,000 --> 01:16:36,080
The sky is falling.
The world is about to be.

1290
01:16:36,400 --> 01:16:40,240
The world is about to end.
We have to do something

1291
01:16:40,240 --> 01:16:42,400
immediately.
This is stage 4 cancer.

1292
01:16:42,400 --> 01:16:44,680
It's in the lymph nodes, right?
We are.

1293
01:16:45,200 --> 01:16:51,360
We are all going to die if we
don't abolish secularism.

1294
01:16:53,920 --> 01:16:59,600
If it kind of sounds like a call
to arms in a sense, certainly.

1295
01:17:00,840 --> 01:17:04,760
And and and the problem with
that right is it is motivated by

1296
01:17:04,760 --> 01:17:08,760
the spirit of fear.
And This is why Doug's denying

1297
01:17:08,760 --> 01:17:10,720
it.
That's why he denied it the

1298
01:17:10,720 --> 01:17:12,480
beginning before he shared these
quotes.

1299
01:17:13,280 --> 01:17:16,560
You know, and going going back
to a little part I did with

1300
01:17:16,560 --> 01:17:22,200
where I showed that clip from
Driscoll where he says.

1301
01:17:22,400 --> 01:17:25,000
Yeah.
Mormons are are demonic

1302
01:17:25,000 --> 01:17:30,200
essentially, right?
You have you now have that call,

1303
01:17:30,520 --> 01:17:35,320
right, Which I'm sorry, if you
start talking like it, it's

1304
01:17:35,360 --> 01:17:39,640
almost like, oh, from what's
their names, Chad and Lori

1305
01:17:39,640 --> 01:17:42,040
Daybell, right?
It's almost that kind of like

1306
01:17:42,360 --> 01:17:44,520
they're possessed.
There's nothing you can do.

1307
01:17:45,000 --> 01:17:49,680
And then you have this call here
that's look, I'm not saying

1308
01:17:49,680 --> 01:17:54,160
anything is impending, but you
should take note of this, right?

1309
01:17:54,160 --> 01:17:57,360
Take take note of this,
understand what they're saying.

1310
01:17:59,480 --> 01:18:03,280
The old man's have a great a
great quote, which is you always

1311
01:18:03,280 --> 01:18:08,120
take a madman at his word.
And I'm going to take these guys

1312
01:18:08,120 --> 01:18:10,640
at their word and then I'll see
what they do.

1313
01:18:11,680 --> 01:18:14,360
Right, Yeah.
So there's that to be concerned

1314
01:18:14,360 --> 01:18:17,720
with, but there's also just even
the effect that what they're

1315
01:18:17,720 --> 01:18:20,960
having upon Christians who are
listening to the message is a

1316
01:18:20,960 --> 01:18:23,600
bit of a problem, right?
Even if they don't decide to

1317
01:18:23,640 --> 01:18:27,920
immediately grab arms and and
have a, a, a Christian

1318
01:18:27,920 --> 01:18:34,080
nationalist communist
revolution, it's still, it's

1319
01:18:34,080 --> 01:18:36,280
still dangerous.
It's still bad, right, Because

1320
01:18:36,280 --> 01:18:40,640
these are Christians and they're
being taught a gospel of fear

1321
01:18:40,760 --> 01:18:46,120
them fear the other.
The reason why your life sucks,

1322
01:18:46,120 --> 01:18:48,680
the reason why you're facing
tribulation, the reason why it's

1323
01:18:48,680 --> 01:18:54,200
hard is because those guys out
there aren't obeying the law.

1324
01:18:56,880 --> 01:19:00,040
Now, there is some truth to
that, right?

1325
01:19:00,480 --> 01:19:05,640
There is some truth to that.
But what are we called to do

1326
01:19:05,640 --> 01:19:10,560
about that as Christians?
It would be the light on the

1327
01:19:10,560 --> 01:19:12,520
hill.
We're we're the salt that

1328
01:19:12,520 --> 01:19:17,800
provides look, salt serve 2 two
things in the old world, right?

1329
01:19:17,880 --> 01:19:20,240
The first one was flavor.
We still do that today.

1330
01:19:20,480 --> 01:19:23,480
The other is it was a preserving
agent, right?

1331
01:19:23,840 --> 01:19:29,120
So we're we're meant to preserve
the best qualities in humanity,

1332
01:19:29,200 --> 01:19:33,480
is my feeling.
The other don't hide your light,

1333
01:19:33,840 --> 01:19:37,200
right?
We're there to attract people to

1334
01:19:37,200 --> 01:19:42,480
us, right.
If we look at the imagery of the

1335
01:19:42,480 --> 01:19:45,880
light that's hid under a bushel,
things become dark.

1336
01:19:46,360 --> 01:19:49,520
We're supposed to be the ones to
show the way away from the

1337
01:19:49,520 --> 01:19:52,000
darkness.
What I hear Doug talking about

1338
01:19:52,000 --> 01:19:55,520
here is something that that
quite frankly, is maybe not

1339
01:19:55,520 --> 01:19:58,680
completely dark, but it sure is
the last hours of dusk.

1340
01:19:59,760 --> 01:20:03,800
And I think it it deserves to be
looked at in that fashion.

1341
01:20:05,080 --> 01:20:10,440
How we win converts is by
letting the Spirit do its job.

1342
01:20:10,440 --> 01:20:13,320
We just set up the appointment.
Right.

1343
01:20:13,320 --> 01:20:16,280
Yeah.
The Spirit and the Lord can do

1344
01:20:16,280 --> 01:20:17,760
their own work.
We just got to set up the

1345
01:20:17,760 --> 01:20:19,760
appointment.
And we do that through

1346
01:20:19,760 --> 01:20:23,760
proclaiming the gospel with
people in our own sphere of

1347
01:20:23,760 --> 01:20:28,720
influence.
Yeah, and and what does Christ

1348
01:20:28,720 --> 01:20:31,440
actually teach right?
Is Christ saying that, hey,

1349
01:20:32,680 --> 01:20:36,520
those people aren't obeying the
law, that's going to cause bad

1350
01:20:36,520 --> 01:20:40,320
things to happen to you,
therefore enslave them.

1351
01:20:44,000 --> 01:20:47,960
Blessed are blessed are they
which are persecuted for

1352
01:20:47,960 --> 01:20:51,080
righteousness sake, for theirs
is the Kingdom of heaven.

1353
01:20:51,640 --> 01:20:54,280
Blessed are ye when men shall
revile you, and persecute you,

1354
01:20:54,280 --> 01:20:57,200
and say all manner of evil
against you falsely for my sake.

1355
01:20:57,200 --> 01:21:01,000
Rejoice and be exceedingly glad,
for great is your reward in

1356
01:21:01,000 --> 01:21:05,840
heaven for so persecuted they
the prophets which were before

1357
01:21:05,840 --> 01:21:08,760
you.
The call to the disciples to be

1358
01:21:08,760 --> 01:21:11,120
a prophet.
Prophets are not popular.

1359
01:21:11,760 --> 01:21:16,120
If there is a state religion it
will preclude the prophets

1360
01:21:16,120 --> 01:21:19,600
messages it has.
Look at Israel.

1361
01:21:20,640 --> 01:21:23,120
When has Israel not tried to
stone their prophets?

1362
01:21:24,800 --> 01:21:27,720
Never.
Yeah, it's.

1363
01:21:27,720 --> 01:21:30,200
Just how it goes, right?
So Christ is telling us what to

1364
01:21:30,240 --> 01:21:32,120
ex what?
What should we expect as

1365
01:21:32,120 --> 01:21:36,320
disciples of Christ?
Well, a hard world, right?

1366
01:21:36,960 --> 01:21:40,640
And we've got to, we've got to
deal with this with grace.

1367
01:21:41,600 --> 01:21:44,080
Blessed are the peacemakers, for
they shall be called the

1368
01:21:44,080 --> 01:21:47,360
children of God.
Blessed are the pure in heart,

1369
01:21:47,360 --> 01:21:49,560
for they shall see God.
Blessed are the merciful, they

1370
01:21:49,560 --> 01:21:51,840
shall obtain mercy.
Blessed are they which hunger

1371
01:21:51,840 --> 01:21:53,760
and thirst after righteousness,
they shall be filled.

1372
01:21:53,840 --> 01:21:57,320
Blessed are the meek, for they
shall inherit the earth.

1373
01:21:57,840 --> 01:22:00,160
What did this guy just say?
Did he just say the meek inherit

1374
01:22:00,160 --> 01:22:01,720
the earth?
No.

1375
01:22:02,320 --> 01:22:05,360
He says you, you lousy
Christians, get your get off

1376
01:22:05,360 --> 01:22:07,320
your asses and conquer this
land.

1377
01:22:07,320 --> 01:22:11,040
We need to inherit the earth. 2
arms.

1378
01:22:12,080 --> 01:22:13,880
Right.
It's a different message

1379
01:22:13,880 --> 01:22:16,000
entirely than what Jesus is
preaching.

1380
01:22:16,800 --> 01:22:20,200
Yeah, it's a very different
message and and Doug knows it,

1381
01:22:20,200 --> 01:22:23,800
right, which is why he's was
denying this at the beginning

1382
01:22:23,800 --> 01:22:25,960
and saying we're not, I don't,
I'm not doing fear porn.

1383
01:22:26,160 --> 01:22:29,400
Because he understands that if
if his message to Christian

1384
01:22:29,400 --> 01:22:32,640
nationalists is you've got to be
afraid they're coming for us.

1385
01:22:33,040 --> 01:22:35,000
And if we don't do something
about them, they're going to get

1386
01:22:35,000 --> 01:22:37,680
us.
And you get people riled up that

1387
01:22:37,680 --> 01:22:42,600
way, you're violating the
teachings of Jesus Christ. 100%.

1388
01:22:44,760 --> 01:22:47,200
But he denied it.
But we just got some examples,

1389
01:22:47,280 --> 01:22:48,960
right?
You know, the audience can judge

1390
01:22:48,960 --> 01:22:50,840
for themselves.
The reason why I leave people up

1391
01:22:50,840 --> 01:22:53,400
or not, you have.
To convince me here, that's my

1392
01:22:53,400 --> 01:22:55,720
mission as a Christian.
I still haven't followed

1393
01:22:55,720 --> 01:22:56,800
through.
I'm already jumping down.

1394
01:22:56,800 --> 01:23:01,120
But there's nothing you guys
like, you know, killing cancer

1395
01:23:01,120 --> 01:23:03,480
with a little civil war.
That's the language.

1396
01:23:04,440 --> 01:23:06,880
So, so come on.
I mean, this is the kind of

1397
01:23:06,880 --> 01:23:10,120
rhetoric that's stirring up
everyone that you may have, you

1398
01:23:10,120 --> 01:23:12,000
may have joyful families in
Moscow.

1399
01:23:12,440 --> 01:23:15,880
But don't you think you guys,
that the perception is we're

1400
01:23:15,880 --> 01:23:17,440
putting all this writing out
there.

1401
01:23:18,120 --> 01:23:21,200
We're sort of the spearheads of
the defenders.

1402
01:23:22,040 --> 01:23:24,240
You've been known as the most
controversial pastor in America

1403
01:23:24,600 --> 01:23:31,320
by Tucker that that essentially
that this is a sort of implicit

1404
01:23:31,320 --> 01:23:35,680
call.
We have the answers in Moscow to

1405
01:23:35,680 --> 01:23:39,240
the problems that are happening
and you give this great

1406
01:23:39,240 --> 01:23:43,120
perception out there,
catastrophic post millennialism.

1407
01:23:43,600 --> 01:23:45,160
I think that's the rush journey
position.

1408
01:23:45,720 --> 01:23:48,040
A catastrophic post
millennialism is going to

1409
01:23:48,040 --> 01:23:49,760
happen.
We're almost there.

1410
01:23:49,920 --> 01:23:52,960
Get on board now.
You've stirred everyone up this

1411
01:23:52,960 --> 01:23:57,200
way.
I thought he had a good point.

1412
01:23:57,880 --> 01:24:00,760
I thought he had a good point.
This is one of the problems,

1413
01:24:00,760 --> 01:24:02,880
right?
Because here's the thing,

1414
01:24:02,960 --> 01:24:07,680
whether you're a Christian, a
Mormon, LDS fundamentalist, we

1415
01:24:07,680 --> 01:24:13,960
all have a responsibility to
police our own right.

1416
01:24:14,240 --> 01:24:17,000
As a fundamentalist, I don't
want to be associated with

1417
01:24:17,000 --> 01:24:21,360
Warren Jeffs.
So when I see Warren Jeffs out

1418
01:24:21,360 --> 01:24:25,520
there saying really bad crap,
I'm going to speak out against

1419
01:24:25,520 --> 01:24:31,880
it.
We might agree on the importance

1420
01:24:31,920 --> 01:24:36,960
of the doctrine of plural
marriage, but we do not agree on

1421
01:24:36,960 --> 01:24:40,280
Apple and all this other stuff.
So is Warren Jeffs an ally to

1422
01:24:40,280 --> 01:24:45,680
me, or is he a liability?
At best a liability.

1423
01:24:46,400 --> 01:24:49,120
Yeah, at best a liability, and I
think that's true of every

1424
01:24:49,120 --> 01:24:53,200
organization.
Who is responsible if somebody

1425
01:24:53,200 --> 01:25:00,120
is using your name to preach a
different religion, are you not

1426
01:25:00,120 --> 01:25:02,320
responsible to speak out against
that?

1427
01:25:03,800 --> 01:25:06,120
I kind of think you are.
I think that's really, really

1428
01:25:06,120 --> 01:25:10,160
important, right.
And that's the criticism here is

1429
01:25:10,160 --> 01:25:14,800
that Doug's, he's claiming that
Doug's not he's, he's getting

1430
01:25:14,800 --> 01:25:17,160
people scared.
And even if he's not the one

1431
01:25:17,560 --> 01:25:21,040
leading them to the conclusion
of we need civil war, you got

1432
01:25:21,040 --> 01:25:23,560
them riled up and you passed
them on to your friend who you

1433
01:25:23,560 --> 01:25:25,480
don't, who you're not
denouncing.

1434
01:25:28,720 --> 01:25:31,440
So there's a bit of a principle
here.

1435
01:25:33,040 --> 01:25:35,200
The same one.
This is very much the same

1436
01:25:35,200 --> 01:25:36,480
thing.
It's a really short clip, but

1437
01:25:36,480 --> 01:25:41,200
again, just to show what it is.
What is the message this?

1438
01:25:41,200 --> 01:25:45,760
Statement I I wanted to take the
book and, you know, OK, it's to

1439
01:25:45,760 --> 01:25:50,280
our shame that we sheepishly
tolerate the assaults against

1440
01:25:50,280 --> 01:25:54,880
our Christian heritage.
We are dead inside talking about

1441
01:25:54,880 --> 01:25:59,640
Christians lacking the Spirit to
drive against the open mockery

1442
01:25:59,640 --> 01:26:02,040
of God and claim what is ours in
Christ.

1443
01:26:03,840 --> 01:26:07,320
Well, I wanted to say up front
that then even Jesus didn't pass

1444
01:26:07,320 --> 01:26:12,680
your test.
Here's a statement that gets to

1445
01:26:12,680 --> 01:26:15,400
the heart of my concern on that.
He's the one that cleansed the

1446
01:26:15,400 --> 01:26:18,720
temple.
OK and and by the way, that was

1447
01:26:18,720 --> 01:26:20,560
a sort of redemptive historical
act.

1448
01:26:20,560 --> 01:26:22,760
I'm not Calvin even cautions
right there.

1449
01:26:22,760 --> 01:26:24,280
Applies to everyone.
Yeah, but it.

1450
01:26:26,240 --> 01:26:30,080
Look at him, look at him.
Oh yeah, look at the face.

1451
01:26:30,680 --> 01:26:32,920
There is something that happened
there.

1452
01:26:32,920 --> 01:26:36,560
Like I dude, I think I don't
know who this other pastor is.

1453
01:26:36,560 --> 01:26:39,440
I'm worried he might be a bit
lefty, but nonetheless, he's

1454
01:26:39,440 --> 01:26:40,440
making good.
He's not.

1455
01:26:40,840 --> 01:26:44,560
He's not, He's not, he's not.
They they, he said he'd take

1456
01:26:44,560 --> 01:26:46,960
Reagan over Trump later on in
the interview at one point.

1457
01:26:46,960 --> 01:26:50,080
I don't think I've got that far.
But anyways, he's no, he's he's,

1458
01:26:50,400 --> 01:26:52,120
he's a, he's a one of the good
ones.

1459
01:26:53,520 --> 01:26:57,800
Back a few seconds, even before
this Justin, that look was the

1460
01:26:57,800 --> 01:27:02,440
look of a man who, if he had
something, that's a man who's

1461
01:27:02,440 --> 01:27:04,280
not happy.
I'll just leave it there.

1462
01:27:04,280 --> 01:27:06,400
I'm not going.
To try to ascribe motive.

1463
01:27:06,400 --> 01:27:08,960
To this dude but dude look at
his face he.

1464
01:27:09,000 --> 01:27:11,480
Was shook he was.
He is upset.

1465
01:27:11,680 --> 01:27:13,280
He is.
He's kind of in a righteous

1466
01:27:13,320 --> 01:27:16,000
anger here.
How dare you claim that

1467
01:27:16,000 --> 01:27:20,960
Christians cannot be meek, that
assault, persecute Christians,

1468
01:27:21,160 --> 01:27:23,400
bad mouth Christians for being
meek?

1469
01:27:25,720 --> 01:27:31,320
Yeah, for a living to beatitudes
demanding that they, you know,

1470
01:27:31,320 --> 01:27:36,040
become crusaders.
To the heart of my concern on

1471
01:27:36,040 --> 01:27:37,680
that.
He's the one that cleanse the

1472
01:27:37,680 --> 01:27:41,880
temple.
And yeah, Yep.

1473
01:27:43,120 --> 01:27:46,880
Mass came off for just a moment.
Yeah, Yep.

1474
01:27:47,600 --> 01:27:48,760
Right.
And here's the thing, he's

1475
01:27:48,760 --> 01:27:52,680
giving an excuse for that.
How?

1476
01:27:52,720 --> 01:27:55,520
However, you know, I'll, I'll
let the debate play.

1477
01:27:55,560 --> 01:27:58,560
Out and by the way, that was a
sort of redemptive historical

1478
01:27:58,560 --> 01:28:00,320
act.
I'm not Calvin even cautions.

1479
01:28:00,600 --> 01:28:01,960
I'm not sure that applies to
everyone.

1480
01:28:02,200 --> 01:28:03,920
No, but it applies to him.
It applies to.

1481
01:28:04,000 --> 01:28:04,640
Jesus.
Amen.

1482
01:28:04,880 --> 01:28:07,600
Amen.
The zeal for God's house assumed

1483
01:28:07,680 --> 01:28:10,640
him, so he wasn't dead, but.
What was the example

1484
01:28:10,640 --> 01:28:12,640
specifically, Doug?
Well, let me answer.

1485
01:28:12,640 --> 01:28:14,680
What was the example
specifically?

1486
01:28:15,040 --> 01:28:18,800
First, Peter, Jesus left us.
The example is When he was

1487
01:28:18,800 --> 01:28:21,920
insulted, he did not insult.
When he was beaten, he did not

1488
01:28:21,920 --> 01:28:23,760
beat.
He entrusted himself to him who

1489
01:28:23,760 --> 01:28:25,600
judges righteously.
And then he suffered and died on

1490
01:28:25,600 --> 01:28:26,760
the cross.
So was.

1491
01:28:28,480 --> 01:28:32,160
So, you know, that's a sneaky
deflection there on Doug's part,

1492
01:28:32,160 --> 01:28:35,040
in my opinion.
I he's like, well, Christ in the

1493
01:28:35,040 --> 01:28:40,320
temple.
OK, well, he, he's nitpicking

1494
01:28:40,320 --> 01:28:46,560
here, right?
The pastor, this point was he

1495
01:28:46,720 --> 01:28:51,200
was using that for rhetorical
emphasis and now he wants to

1496
01:28:51,200 --> 01:28:55,200
debate the accuracy of the of
the rhetoric, not the actual

1497
01:28:55,200 --> 01:28:57,560
point.
He's he's not he's not

1498
01:28:57,560 --> 01:28:59,400
addressing the actual issue
here, though.

1499
01:29:00,600 --> 01:29:03,760
Should Christians behave like
Christ teaches in the

1500
01:29:03,760 --> 01:29:07,600
Beatitudes, or should they
behave as Doug Wilson is telling

1501
01:29:07,600 --> 01:29:09,760
them to in his book?
Right.

1502
01:29:10,400 --> 01:29:15,200
Because those are at conflict.
And it might be, you know, we

1503
01:29:15,200 --> 01:29:18,760
can get into the weeds on
whether Christ fits that

1504
01:29:18,760 --> 01:29:21,240
definition or not.
And that's, that's Doug's intent

1505
01:29:21,240 --> 01:29:23,200
because he doesn't want to
address the real issue.

1506
01:29:23,440 --> 01:29:26,400
I think that's why you see that
kind of look on his face, like

1507
01:29:26,400 --> 01:29:32,040
the kid caught with his hand in
the candy jar because oh crap,

1508
01:29:33,080 --> 01:29:35,320
this is a, this is a slippery
situation.

1509
01:29:35,800 --> 01:29:40,760
My mask is going to fall.
Jesus sheepishly tolerating the

1510
01:29:40,760 --> 01:29:44,800
assaults against him.
Sheepishly, No.

1511
01:29:44,800 --> 01:29:46,880
As a warrior king.
I'm just pointing out that

1512
01:29:46,880 --> 01:29:51,200
cleansing of the temple meant
that he did pass Wolf's test and

1513
01:29:51,200 --> 01:29:53,960
I wasn't talking about what
example he set for us that we

1514
01:29:53,960 --> 01:29:55,600
are commanded to follow.
We are.

1515
01:29:55,600 --> 01:29:59,000
We are commanded in Peter to
follow the example and following

1516
01:29:59,000 --> 01:30:02,720
his steps to follow the, you
know, to accept the slings and

1517
01:30:02,720 --> 01:30:08,160
arrows they get thrown at us.
So, yeah, he he basically kind

1518
01:30:08,160 --> 01:30:12,400
of deflected, you know, he made
a really good point that this is

1519
01:30:12,400 --> 01:30:14,440
problem.
He doesn't refute it, right.

1520
01:30:14,440 --> 01:30:16,480
That was a quote from a a guy,
Michael Wolff.

1521
01:30:16,600 --> 01:30:19,320
He's a little more extreme than
and then Doug Wilson on his in

1522
01:30:19,320 --> 01:30:20,720
his version of Christian
nationalism.

1523
01:30:23,440 --> 01:30:25,560
And Doug could have said, yeah,
I disagree with that.

1524
01:30:25,560 --> 01:30:27,800
Yeah, that's that was a terrible
thing to say.

1525
01:30:28,160 --> 01:30:30,520
Why would he have said that?
That's not what I believe about

1526
01:30:30,520 --> 01:30:32,360
Christians.
I don't think Christians have to

1527
01:30:33,160 --> 01:30:36,640
take up the sword or they're
weak and effeminate, you know?

1528
01:30:36,720 --> 01:30:39,400
But he doesn't.
Instead, he nitpicks whether or

1529
01:30:39,400 --> 01:30:43,920
not Christ cleansing the temple,
you know, counts.

1530
01:30:44,920 --> 01:30:47,480
He's basically arguing Christ
against Christ, you know.

1531
01:30:47,480 --> 01:30:50,320
Well, Christ in his temple
behaved in a way contrary to how

1532
01:30:50,320 --> 01:30:52,120
he tells us to behave in the
Beatitudes.

1533
01:30:52,120 --> 01:30:54,440
You know what I find interesting
about this, Justin?

1534
01:30:54,440 --> 01:30:58,520
And we, we touched on this
earlier, one of the things that

1535
01:30:59,800 --> 01:31:02,920
many Christians will level at
Mormons as you worship a

1536
01:31:02,920 --> 01:31:07,240
different Jesus here these guys
are debating about a different

1537
01:31:07,280 --> 01:31:09,040
Jesus.
Right.

1538
01:31:10,520 --> 01:31:13,200
They're doing it right here.
And they're doing it right here.

1539
01:31:13,520 --> 01:31:17,560
And if Doug Wilson had his
Christian utopia, yes, then

1540
01:31:17,560 --> 01:31:19,520
they'd be killing each other
over this.

1541
01:31:20,160 --> 01:31:23,680
Let's let's not call it, let's
call this what it is, right?

1542
01:31:24,280 --> 01:31:26,560
And, and look, this is going to
be a spicy take.

1543
01:31:27,120 --> 01:31:32,320
This is not a fruition of the
Constitution of the United

1544
01:31:32,320 --> 01:31:34,120
States.
This is not Zion.

1545
01:31:34,840 --> 01:31:38,280
What Doug Wilson wants,
essentially, is a Christian

1546
01:31:38,280 --> 01:31:42,320
caliphate.
Yeah, that's it.

1547
01:31:43,120 --> 01:31:45,720
That's what he's calling for,
and he's claiming it in the name

1548
01:31:45,720 --> 01:31:50,040
of Christ, saying this is what
Christ wants us to do, stirring

1549
01:31:50,040 --> 01:31:55,360
people into a different gospel.
He wants a Holy Baptist.

1550
01:31:55,920 --> 01:31:59,560
He wants a a Holy American
Baptist Empire.

1551
01:32:00,240 --> 01:32:03,520
That's what he's looking for.
Yep.

1552
01:32:05,640 --> 01:32:08,920
So do I want to go into that
one?

1553
01:32:12,040 --> 01:32:14,320
Let me skip that one.
Are you sure we do it?

1554
01:32:14,320 --> 01:32:15,400
All right, let's do it.
Let's do it.

1555
01:32:15,400 --> 01:32:18,080
OK, let's talk about Christian
eschatology.

1556
01:32:19,360 --> 01:32:22,400
This might be new to the viewers
and I the only reason I know is

1557
01:32:22,400 --> 01:32:24,600
because I've I've been studying
these kinds of things with these

1558
01:32:24,600 --> 01:32:26,760
guys.
Explain what eschatology is.

1559
01:32:27,280 --> 01:32:31,720
Eschatology is how it ends, the
philosophical concept of how it

1560
01:32:31,720 --> 01:32:34,960
ends.
And in Christian theology there

1561
01:32:34,960 --> 01:32:37,520
are three primary types of
eschatology.

1562
01:32:38,480 --> 01:32:40,920
They're called premillennial,
post millennial, and

1563
01:32:40,960 --> 01:32:43,640
amillennial, meaning no
millennial.

1564
01:32:44,440 --> 01:32:49,120
And the Christians, the the
Christian sects have all divided

1565
01:32:49,120 --> 01:32:52,280
themselves into three different
camps on this.

1566
01:32:53,040 --> 01:32:57,760
And what it revolves around is
the interpretation of how does

1567
01:32:57,760 --> 01:33:00,200
things end?
When does Christ come back?

1568
01:33:01,640 --> 01:33:03,560
What is going on when Christ
come back?

1569
01:33:03,560 --> 01:33:06,400
So I'll just go through these as
best I understand them and I

1570
01:33:06,400 --> 01:33:08,040
might have some of this little
off.

1571
01:33:08,040 --> 01:33:12,680
I'm not, I'm not a Protestant,
but this is how I understand

1572
01:33:12,680 --> 01:33:14,120
them.
I picked that up actually

1573
01:33:14,120 --> 01:33:15,200
somewhere in our.
Conversations.

1574
01:33:15,840 --> 01:33:18,080
I picked that up.
Yeah.

1575
01:33:18,480 --> 01:33:22,760
So post millennial, post
millennialism, post meaning

1576
01:33:22,760 --> 01:33:25,800
after Millennium being the
Millennium where Christ reigns,

1577
01:33:26,320 --> 01:33:31,160
post millennialism believes that
with the resurrection of Jesus

1578
01:33:31,160 --> 01:33:37,080
Christ, the Millennium begins.
Do you see the Millennium?

1579
01:33:38,440 --> 01:33:42,280
I don't see the Millennium.
OK, well, I thought it began.

1580
01:33:43,000 --> 01:33:45,080
If it began at the resurrection,
why aren't we there?

1581
01:33:45,080 --> 01:33:49,040
Well, because through the
resurrection, Christ has given

1582
01:33:49,040 --> 01:33:54,080
us all that we need to now
establish his Kingdom.

1583
01:33:55,440 --> 01:33:59,720
So the post millennialist,
millennialist idea is that the

1584
01:34:00,400 --> 01:34:05,840
the world will get more and more
Christian over time, more and

1585
01:34:05,840 --> 01:34:11,920
more better, more and more
righteous until we achieve the

1586
01:34:11,920 --> 01:34:14,280
Millennium and then Christ will
come.

1587
01:34:14,320 --> 01:34:18,880
So it's up to us.
Now, there's some things to

1588
01:34:18,880 --> 01:34:24,760
admire about this eschatology,
because in this eschatology it

1589
01:34:24,760 --> 01:34:27,400
is up to us.
Meaning we've got to get off our

1590
01:34:27,400 --> 01:34:31,920
butts and get to work.
Right.

1591
01:34:32,200 --> 01:34:35,200
We can't just sit around waiting
for Jesus to come back and just

1592
01:34:35,200 --> 01:34:38,280
worrying about me and myself.
Me, my, me and myself, my own.

1593
01:34:39,480 --> 01:34:42,200
You got to get out there and you
got to do some work.

1594
01:34:43,520 --> 01:34:47,520
You got to serve.
You're going to have to teach.

1595
01:34:47,520 --> 01:34:50,240
You're going to have to do a lot
of, you know, a lot of that

1596
01:34:50,240 --> 01:34:52,480
work.
I admire that aspect of post

1597
01:34:52,480 --> 01:34:56,480
millennialism.
The downside of post

1598
01:34:56,480 --> 01:35:00,880
millennialism, as we're kind of
seeing here, is that when you

1599
01:35:00,880 --> 01:35:07,160
have a post millennial view,
it's almost like.

1600
01:35:07,160 --> 01:35:10,880
Everything is up to mortal.
It's up to you, Yeah.

1601
01:35:11,000 --> 01:35:13,360
Is Christ going to come back?
It's it's kind of up to you.

1602
01:35:14,240 --> 01:35:20,360
And if it's up to me, well, it's
kind of the outcome that

1603
01:35:20,360 --> 01:35:25,920
matters, right, How we get
there, maybe a little less so.

1604
01:35:25,920 --> 01:35:28,360
So.
So the ends would justify the

1605
01:35:28,360 --> 01:35:30,560
means.
It kind of that's kind of what I

1606
01:35:30,560 --> 01:35:32,960
think we're seeing right.
And I don't think Doug Wilson's

1607
01:35:32,960 --> 01:35:37,040
necessarily acting in in bad
faith in his belief, but

1608
01:35:37,040 --> 01:35:40,800
nonetheless that ends justify
the me the needing the ends to

1609
01:35:40,800 --> 01:35:45,400
justify the means aspect of post
millennialism has created him

1610
01:35:46,000 --> 01:35:49,760
and has allowed him to interpret
Scripture in a way that I, that

1611
01:35:49,760 --> 01:35:51,400
even this guy disagrees with,
right?

1612
01:35:51,400 --> 01:35:54,640
In a way that's requiring
Christians to rise up and take

1613
01:35:54,640 --> 01:35:58,600
this country back.
And that's just not a, that's

1614
01:35:58,600 --> 01:36:01,960
not a Christian stance even even
for this guy.

1615
01:36:02,600 --> 01:36:06,920
So that's post millennialism and
that comes from Calvin.

1616
01:36:07,360 --> 01:36:10,280
And that is what most Christian
nationalists are coming from a,

1617
01:36:10,440 --> 01:36:12,280
from a post millennial
perspective.

1618
01:36:13,040 --> 01:36:16,520
And that's part of why there's,
again, there's beauty to that.

1619
01:36:16,520 --> 01:36:19,720
There's some good to it, but
maybe it's not all, maybe it's

1620
01:36:19,720 --> 01:36:24,040
not complete.
Now, premillennialism, this is

1621
01:36:24,040 --> 01:36:26,640
the, the, this is the left
behind eschatology.

1622
01:36:28,360 --> 01:36:30,160
OK, we are, we're, we are pre
millennial.

1623
01:36:30,160 --> 01:36:31,680
We are not at the Millennium
yet.

1624
01:36:32,160 --> 01:36:34,920
And in premillennial
eschatology, things get worse

1625
01:36:34,920 --> 01:36:39,960
and worse and worse and tell
they're so bad that they can't

1626
01:36:39,960 --> 01:36:42,960
get any worse.
And then there may or may not be

1627
01:36:42,960 --> 01:36:46,960
a rapture first, but then Christ
will come and judge the earth

1628
01:36:47,120 --> 01:36:51,320
and and and and and condemn it.
Gotcha SO.

1629
01:36:52,160 --> 01:36:56,880
That is the, the, the, the pre,
the pre millennial.

1630
01:36:56,880 --> 01:36:58,800
We're not there yet.
We're we're before the

1631
01:36:58,800 --> 01:37:02,440
Millennium.
And that one is things just get

1632
01:37:02,440 --> 01:37:05,640
worse and worse and worse until
Christ basically bails us out at

1633
01:37:05,640 --> 01:37:07,640
the last second.
This is kind of like Chronicles

1634
01:37:07,640 --> 01:37:10,400
and Arnia type, you know, Aslan
showing up at the last second to

1635
01:37:10,400 --> 01:37:13,800
save everybody.
There's a lot of truth to that

1636
01:37:13,800 --> 01:37:16,120
too, I think, right?
Right.

1637
01:37:17,600 --> 01:37:20,560
Well, I was going to say, so far
the restoration falls somewhere

1638
01:37:20,560 --> 01:37:22,800
in the middle of all these.
Right.

1639
01:37:22,800 --> 01:37:24,680
Yeah, it really does.
And then you got the a

1640
01:37:24,800 --> 01:37:28,560
millennialists.
And that's what this this pastor

1641
01:37:28,560 --> 01:37:32,960
here specifically who's debating
with him, he's he, he is from

1642
01:37:32,960 --> 01:37:35,840
the a millennialist camp.
And the a millennialist camp

1643
01:37:35,840 --> 01:37:38,600
basically says it doesn't really
matter.

1644
01:37:39,800 --> 01:37:44,240
Christ is going to return when
he returns and what's up to us

1645
01:37:44,240 --> 01:37:49,840
is to whether sunshine or rain
to, to live the faith and and do

1646
01:37:49,840 --> 01:37:52,400
what God expects of us.
That's the a millennialist

1647
01:37:52,400 --> 01:37:55,760
approach.
So I mean, with that said, where

1648
01:37:55,760 --> 01:38:02,000
does Mormonism fit in right?
It's so funny because I think

1649
01:38:02,000 --> 01:38:05,440
Mormonism This is my take all
right, but I think Mormonism are

1650
01:38:05,440 --> 01:38:08,200
are are post and
premillennialist at the exact

1651
01:38:08,200 --> 01:38:11,160
same time.
I would agree there's too many

1652
01:38:11,160 --> 01:38:14,760
the world.
Yeah, the world as a whole,

1653
01:38:14,920 --> 01:38:18,920
Babylon the Great, the great
Nabambo Church, right.

1654
01:38:20,160 --> 01:38:23,000
But it but before it falls, it's
controlling the earth.

1655
01:38:23,000 --> 01:38:25,560
It's on many waters.
They are everywhere.

1656
01:38:26,320 --> 01:38:29,800
They are arrayed against the
against the Saints of God and

1657
01:38:29,800 --> 01:38:31,400
the House of Israel to destroy
them.

1658
01:38:32,440 --> 01:38:34,480
They've got it all.
That's the world.

1659
01:38:34,480 --> 01:38:37,360
They're at a place of Sodom and
Gomorrah level wickedness.

1660
01:38:37,360 --> 01:38:40,680
We're we're going to get Noah
level cleansing things that get

1661
01:38:40,680 --> 01:38:44,000
so bad.
Malachi is quoted Joseph Smith.

1662
01:38:44,080 --> 01:38:49,640
The whole earth will be wasted
at his coming if not for the

1663
01:38:49,640 --> 01:38:54,440
fulfillment of this prophecy.
We're very much very, very much

1664
01:38:54,440 --> 01:38:59,280
premillennialists that way.
With one cool caveat.

1665
01:38:59,480 --> 01:39:04,440
Zion, the city of refuge.
Yep.

1666
01:39:05,520 --> 01:39:09,280
And in that aspect, in Zion, in
regards to Zion, we are post

1667
01:39:09,280 --> 01:39:15,160
Millennialists.
We have to establish Zion so

1668
01:39:15,160 --> 01:39:18,120
Christ can come back.
Zion will rise.

1669
01:39:18,400 --> 01:39:23,400
It will descend from above as it
rises from below 100%.

1670
01:39:25,040 --> 01:39:28,240
And we've got what we've needed.
We, we, we've got the

1671
01:39:28,240 --> 01:39:30,320
priesthood, we've got the
doctrines, we've got the

1672
01:39:30,320 --> 01:39:33,160
teachings.
All we've got to do is put this

1673
01:39:33,160 --> 01:39:37,520
together and live this way, this
as as the pure in heart.

1674
01:39:38,000 --> 01:39:43,280
And once a Zionist society is
established, that's when things

1675
01:39:43,280 --> 01:39:45,480
will end.
So we are post millennialists

1676
01:39:45,760 --> 01:39:47,680
and we're pre millennials kind
of at the same time.

1677
01:39:47,680 --> 01:39:51,520
An interesting combination,
which is kind of fascinating.

1678
01:39:51,520 --> 01:39:57,480
Anyways, that introduction is to
this because there he's going to

1679
01:39:57,480 --> 01:40:00,840
point out a serious flaw in post
millennialism as a as a

1680
01:40:00,840 --> 01:40:02,560
Protestant.
And I think it's worth looking

1681
01:40:02,560 --> 01:40:06,840
at these kind of ideas and
arguments, even though it, you

1682
01:40:06,840 --> 01:40:08,400
know, as Mormons, we have our
own thing.

1683
01:40:10,520 --> 01:40:13,920
Have become the kingdoms of this
world, have become the kingdoms

1684
01:40:13,920 --> 01:40:18,840
of our Lord and of his Christ,
You say That's past tense.

1685
01:40:19,840 --> 01:40:21,920
Yes.
So there, there, this is a

1686
01:40:21,920 --> 01:40:23,600
reference right, to the
Scripture.

1687
01:40:23,600 --> 01:40:25,560
It says the kingdoms of the
world have become the kingdoms

1688
01:40:25,560 --> 01:40:27,400
of the Lord.
And this is in reference to the,

1689
01:40:27,520 --> 01:40:31,360
the trumpet, the 7th trumpet in
Revelation, right?

1690
01:40:32,600 --> 01:40:38,840
So the Christian nationalist
side is saying that that's past

1691
01:40:38,840 --> 01:40:40,400
tense because they're post
millennialists.

1692
01:40:40,400 --> 01:40:44,840
This has already happened.
Christ already has been given

1693
01:40:44,840 --> 01:40:47,680
the nations.
They're his now, right?

1694
01:40:48,080 --> 01:40:51,280
While the the the premillennial
or a millennial would say that,

1695
01:40:51,280 --> 01:40:53,400
well no, that's the future.
When the Sabbath trumpet blows,

1696
01:40:53,400 --> 01:40:55,680
that's when Christ claims the
earth.

1697
01:40:56,520 --> 01:40:58,040
Heard you say that.
That's wrong, man.

1698
01:40:59,480 --> 01:41:01,360
Me too.
Me too.

1699
01:41:01,360 --> 01:41:03,600
Just tells him you're wrong.
That's just that's just

1700
01:41:03,920 --> 01:41:05,360
blatantly wrong.
All right.

1701
01:41:07,040 --> 01:41:12,280
And then you say as a, as a
follow up to that, that means

1702
01:41:12,280 --> 01:41:16,760
nothing is off limits,
fundamental ground level

1703
01:41:16,760 --> 01:41:18,960
restructuring of well,
everything to pursue a

1704
01:41:18,960 --> 01:41:20,360
Christendom.
Wow.

1705
01:41:20,520 --> 01:41:25,080
OK, on that premise, I, I think
it's important to say and this

1706
01:41:25,080 --> 01:41:27,360
and this gets a little bit too
Doug, I'll come to you on this

1707
01:41:27,360 --> 01:41:31,160
point of what happens at the set
that happens at the 7th trumpet.

1708
01:41:31,240 --> 01:41:33,280
I never hear anyone raise that
point.

1709
01:41:33,280 --> 01:41:35,880
Now, if you're a full preterist,
I realize that's going to be

1710
01:41:35,880 --> 01:41:38,600
problematic.
Oh, he may have to explain that

1711
01:41:38,800 --> 01:41:39,800
pro.
It's a preterist.

1712
01:41:40,840 --> 01:41:43,240
A preterist is somebody who
believes the Book of Revelation

1713
01:41:43,240 --> 01:41:46,080
has already been fulfilled.
It had to do with the Roman

1714
01:41:46,080 --> 01:41:49,920
Empire, all that, right?
And it has nothing to do with

1715
01:41:49,920 --> 01:41:52,360
the future.
It is of no value to us.

1716
01:41:52,360 --> 01:41:54,640
As far as understanding what the
future holds.

1717
01:41:54,640 --> 01:41:57,640
That's a preterist.
As Mormons, we are not

1718
01:41:57,640 --> 01:41:59,320
preterists, right?
Joseph Smith.

1719
01:42:01,240 --> 01:42:03,040
Now, there might be multiple
layers, right?

1720
01:42:03,040 --> 01:42:07,120
We could be preterists in
friends, sure, Mormons, we like

1721
01:42:07,120 --> 01:42:08,800
everything.
You've got what you got a

1722
01:42:08,800 --> 01:42:11,600
millennialism pre Millennium,
but we'll take them all.

1723
01:42:14,000 --> 01:42:16,480
Are you a preterist?
Are you a literal or a futurist?

1724
01:42:16,520 --> 01:42:21,040
No, no, we're we'll take them
bold if they're wherever there's

1725
01:42:21,040 --> 01:42:24,040
truth to be found.
But that's what he means by a by

1726
01:42:24,040 --> 01:42:27,600
a preterist.
So if Christ, and if Christ

1727
01:42:27,600 --> 01:42:32,000
becoming the sovereign of this
earth is in the future, or is it

1728
01:42:32,000 --> 01:42:35,360
in the past?
Right, You're going to believe

1729
01:42:35,360 --> 01:42:39,640
that happened in 8070 or
whatever, but take GK Beale.

1730
01:42:40,200 --> 01:42:45,440
God now takes to himself the
rule that he formerly permitted

1731
01:42:45,440 --> 01:42:48,200
Satan to have over the world.
Don't gasp, Doug, because that's

1732
01:42:48,200 --> 01:42:50,880
what you said in in Mere
Christendom when Boyd said that

1733
01:42:52,840 --> 01:42:58,360
the 7th trumpet, like the 7th
seal and the 7th bowl, narrates

1734
01:42:58,960 --> 01:43:04,560
the very end of history.
Already.

1735
01:43:04,560 --> 01:43:09,240
Not yet.
So it still might be a little

1736
01:43:09,240 --> 01:43:10,440
hard to follow.
Again, sorry.

1737
01:43:10,440 --> 01:43:13,360
It's they're using Christian
language there, right?

1738
01:43:14,280 --> 01:43:18,120
But what he's basically saying
is you're saying the 7th trumpet

1739
01:43:18,120 --> 01:43:20,040
that, that that happens at the
end of the world.

1740
01:43:24,080 --> 01:43:27,600
We're not there, right?
The 7th trumpet hasn't blown.

1741
01:43:27,600 --> 01:43:33,600
Therefore, at this point what he
really is saying is, is, is, is

1742
01:43:34,120 --> 01:43:39,840
Lucifer is the God of this world
until Christ takes it at the 7th

1743
01:43:39,840 --> 01:43:42,680
trumpet.
And if Lucifer is the God of

1744
01:43:42,680 --> 01:43:45,760
this world, that's going to have
some problems to this idea of

1745
01:43:45,760 --> 01:43:50,960
Christian nationalism.
All right, so so the very end of

1746
01:43:50,960 --> 01:43:55,400
history, their prophetic
perfects past actions from a

1747
01:43:55,400 --> 01:43:58,920
perspective of the future.
That's a, that's a fairly, you

1748
01:43:58,960 --> 01:44:01,520
know, good scholar there.
I want to say with post

1749
01:44:01,520 --> 01:44:05,400
millennialism, and I say this,
you know, the time is the

1750
01:44:05,400 --> 01:44:06,560
timing's all off.
So.

1751
01:44:06,600 --> 01:44:08,720
Here, So let me just follow up.
The timing's all off.

1752
01:44:09,560 --> 01:44:12,720
It's a dream and I'm not seeing
it happen.

1753
01:44:12,720 --> 01:44:14,120
Now would I love to see it
happen?

1754
01:44:14,120 --> 01:44:17,600
That's not a do I want we get
back to the one thing I don't I

1755
01:44:17,600 --> 01:44:20,680
sure don't see it.
You say it may happen 1000 years

1756
01:44:20,800 --> 01:44:22,960
down the road.
But how's that not optimistic,

1757
01:44:23,000 --> 01:44:25,000
Amil?
You were talking just a little

1758
01:44:25,000 --> 01:44:28,040
bit ago about how Jesus is
reigning even though it's chaos

1759
01:44:28,040 --> 01:44:31,800
all around us, right?
And it really is already not yet

1760
01:44:32,520 --> 01:44:35,720
Jesus rose from the dead and was
he ascended into the heavenly

1761
01:44:35,720 --> 01:44:40,280
places 2000 years ago, Daniel
seven, He was given universal

1762
01:44:40,280 --> 01:44:44,000
authority over every nation,
everything He was given that

1763
01:44:44,000 --> 01:44:49,440
dominion and in Psalm 2, the
same thing that you or my son

1764
01:44:49,440 --> 01:44:54,320
today have begotten you is Acts
13 applies that to the

1765
01:44:54,320 --> 01:44:58,480
resurrection.
All right, I know it's hard to

1766
01:44:58,480 --> 01:44:59,160
follow.
I wanted.

1767
01:44:59,160 --> 01:45:03,200
This is a very interesting clip
though, because what's going on

1768
01:45:03,200 --> 01:45:07,160
here is we're they're trying,
they're debating when does

1769
01:45:07,160 --> 01:45:10,520
Christ inherit the nations?
When does, when is Christ

1770
01:45:10,520 --> 01:45:12,960
sovereign over this earth,
right?

1771
01:45:13,680 --> 01:45:17,800
And they're debating this based
off of biblical scriptures,

1772
01:45:17,800 --> 01:45:19,280
right?
These are two different views.

1773
01:45:20,040 --> 01:45:21,920
We have a really interesting
take on this.

1774
01:45:21,920 --> 01:45:29,960
As Mormons, we believe in this
thing called Adam and Diamond

1775
01:45:32,560 --> 01:45:37,920
where God the Father comes back.
It's fundamentalist.

1776
01:45:37,920 --> 01:45:41,120
We understand that to be Adam,
right?

1777
01:45:41,240 --> 01:45:44,840
Adam comes back, God the Father,
and he gathers up all of the

1778
01:45:44,840 --> 01:45:51,720
priesthood, all the authority of
the world, and then he delivers

1779
01:45:51,720 --> 01:45:54,080
it and coronates his Son, Jesus
Christ.

1780
01:45:54,360 --> 01:45:56,400
He hands the Kingdom over to
Christ.

1781
01:45:57,160 --> 01:46:01,160
We know when that happens.
It happened to Adam on diamond.

1782
01:46:01,400 --> 01:46:06,520
So I mean, Doug Wilson saying,
well, that happened at the

1783
01:46:06,520 --> 01:46:10,320
resurrection, right?
But we actually, we know when

1784
01:46:10,320 --> 01:46:12,160
this happened.
It is a future event.

1785
01:46:12,800 --> 01:46:15,640
And the reason this is important
is because if that's a future

1786
01:46:15,640 --> 01:46:20,360
event, then right now, right, so
to speak, Lucifer, Satan is the

1787
01:46:20,360 --> 01:46:23,960
God of this world.
And if he's the God of this

1788
01:46:23,960 --> 01:46:28,760
world, how are we going to get
to a post millennial utopia?

1789
01:46:30,720 --> 01:46:33,000
Few years back I started to get
the feeling that we, as

1790
01:46:33,000 --> 01:46:36,160
fundamentalists and orthodox
Mormons, we need our own stuff.

1791
01:46:36,560 --> 01:46:39,120
Up to now, we've been able to
buy and purchase all of our

1792
01:46:39,120 --> 01:46:42,880
scriptures, books, art and music
from other restoration

1793
01:46:42,880 --> 01:46:45,080
organizations and that's been
good.

1794
01:46:45,280 --> 01:46:47,880
But there's no guarantee it's
going to remain that way.

1795
01:46:48,400 --> 01:46:51,800
Also, it can be a bit tricky as
you scour the Internet trying to

1796
01:46:51,800 --> 01:46:55,000
find all the books from your
favorite fundamentalist or

1797
01:46:55,000 --> 01:46:58,320
orthodox Mormon authors.
As I thought about this, I feel

1798
01:46:58,320 --> 01:47:01,200
like I was really given a
solution now through the hard

1799
01:47:01,200 --> 01:47:04,280
work of others, because let's
face it, I'm the guy least

1800
01:47:04,280 --> 01:47:06,400
qualified in all the world to
build a website.

1801
01:47:06,800 --> 01:47:10,080
I'm happy to present to you 1830
mercantile.org.

1802
01:47:10,720 --> 01:47:13,760
Right now on the website you can
see that we have all the books

1803
01:47:13,760 --> 01:47:16,760
that have ever been written by 4
authors, including names like

1804
01:47:16,760 --> 01:47:20,520
Drew, Briny and Ogdenkraut.
Also very soon there will be a

1805
01:47:20,520 --> 01:47:25,160
link to buy art and music all
produced by Mormons with a deep

1806
01:47:25,160 --> 01:47:28,520
love for the restored gospel.
There's also places for you to

1807
01:47:28,520 --> 01:47:32,840
get free resources where you can
find podcasts, videos, classes,

1808
01:47:32,840 --> 01:47:36,560
and other presentations.
Also coming very soon there will

1809
01:47:36,560 --> 01:47:39,760
be a place for events where you
can list the events from your

1810
01:47:39,760 --> 01:47:43,560
organization so that you can get
the most out of that attendance.

1811
01:47:44,080 --> 01:47:46,480
Now this can be as big as you
want it to be.

1812
01:47:46,480 --> 01:47:49,520
It's all up to you guys out
there if you want to buy and

1813
01:47:49,520 --> 01:47:52,280
post things on here.
Now, if you're someone who

1814
01:47:52,280 --> 01:47:55,480
produces something that you feel
like others can benefit from,

1815
01:47:55,760 --> 01:47:59,240
1830 Mercantile is a place where
you can make all of those

1816
01:47:59,240 --> 01:48:02,600
products available for purchase.
All you need to do is drop me an

1817
01:48:02,600 --> 01:48:05,680
e-mail at
mormonrenegade@gmail.com and put

1818
01:48:05,680 --> 01:48:10,000
1830 in in the title of that
e-mail with a short message and

1819
01:48:10,000 --> 01:48:13,160
either myself or someone else
from the 1830 Mercantile team

1820
01:48:13,360 --> 01:48:16,120
will reach out to you so we can
get your product up there on the

1821
01:48:16,120 --> 01:48:20,440
site.
Now to make sure that all the

1822
01:48:20,440 --> 01:48:24,120
products that we offer are
affordable and to ensure that

1823
01:48:24,120 --> 01:48:28,640
the vast majority of the profits
go to the producer, the website

1824
01:48:28,640 --> 01:48:32,560
percentage is only three to 4%
of the total cost.

1825
01:48:32,560 --> 01:48:35,360
And that's just so I can pay the
pros that have created this

1826
01:48:35,360 --> 01:48:37,920
website and keep the lights on
the website itself.

1827
01:48:38,760 --> 01:48:41,800
Finally, by making some of your
purchases at 1830

1828
01:48:41,800 --> 01:48:45,160
mercantile.org, you'll be
supporting folks whose

1829
01:48:45,160 --> 01:48:48,440
principles and morals are close,
if not the same as yours.

1830
01:48:48,640 --> 01:48:52,120
At the same time not giving your
money away to people who stand

1831
01:48:52,120 --> 01:48:54,120
against everything you stand
for.

1832
01:48:54,480 --> 01:48:57,480
So no matter if you're looking
to make a purchase or you're a

1833
01:48:57,480 --> 01:49:00,720
seller that wants to get your
products listed, head on over to

1834
01:49:00,720 --> 01:49:05,440
1830 mercantile.org today.
Drop me an e-mail and we'll make

1835
01:49:05,440 --> 01:49:06,760
sure that we get back out to
you.

1836
01:49:06,920 --> 01:49:10,560
Now back to the show.
Right?

1837
01:49:10,600 --> 01:49:11,840
I see the.
I see the rub.

1838
01:49:12,480 --> 01:49:13,680
You see the rub?
Yeah.

1839
01:49:14,160 --> 01:49:17,000
And it ties in directly too,
with, and I think that there

1840
01:49:17,000 --> 01:49:18,840
might be another clip that
covers this, but it ties

1841
01:49:18,840 --> 01:49:22,960
directly into the temptations of
Christ because what does

1842
01:49:22,960 --> 01:49:26,840
Lucifer, or does it say Satan?
I don't remember whatever the

1843
01:49:26,840 --> 01:49:30,080
term is right, what does Satan
tempt Christ with that third

1844
01:49:30,080 --> 01:49:34,000
time?
It was control over the world,

1845
01:49:34,000 --> 01:49:35,400
right?
It was all.

1846
01:49:35,400 --> 01:49:38,840
These kingdoms are yours all.
These kingdoms, I'll give you

1847
01:49:38,880 --> 01:49:43,400
all of these.
Now, as Mormons, we understand

1848
01:49:43,400 --> 01:49:49,560
that to be a legitimate offer,
right?

1849
01:49:50,040 --> 01:49:59,600
Because Christ is made king of
kings, He is coronated at

1850
01:49:59,600 --> 01:50:02,840
Adamandayaman, but prior to
that, from the Garden of Eden.

1851
01:50:02,960 --> 01:50:06,120
Because of the fall, because of
this fall, we're in Until Satan

1852
01:50:06,120 --> 01:50:09,120
is bound, He is allowed.
He's the one running rampant in

1853
01:50:09,120 --> 01:50:12,720
the world.
Gotcha.

1854
01:50:13,440 --> 01:50:20,920
And so right, so anyway, if
basically what Satan's tempting

1855
01:50:20,920 --> 01:50:25,160
Christ with right there is
Christian nationalism, I will

1856
01:50:25,160 --> 01:50:28,280
give you the Kingdom right now.
I will give you the kingdoms

1857
01:50:28,280 --> 01:50:31,880
right now.
What would Christ do with

1858
01:50:31,880 --> 01:50:35,480
Christian nationalism?
Yeah.

1859
01:50:37,040 --> 01:50:40,240
Kind of scary, right?
What was Satan's plan again?

1860
01:50:40,240 --> 01:50:42,440
We're going to coerce everybody
to be righteous.

1861
01:50:43,040 --> 01:50:45,440
Everyone's going to make it
because no one's going to have a

1862
01:50:45,440 --> 01:50:47,240
choice.
Right.

1863
01:50:47,240 --> 01:50:51,880
What I mean man, Christ would be
able to pull that off if he took

1864
01:50:51,880 --> 01:50:53,880
Satan up on that offer.
I think he could have pulled

1865
01:50:53,880 --> 01:50:57,200
that off, but he would have
become Satan in that process

1866
01:50:58,280 --> 01:51:03,880
100%.
So again, here's Satan offering

1867
01:51:03,880 --> 01:51:08,760
Christian nationalism to Christ,
and Christ refuses the offer

1868
01:51:09,680 --> 01:51:13,400
because he knows his Father will
deliver the Kingdom to him in

1869
01:51:13,400 --> 01:51:17,280
due time.
Yes.

1870
01:51:18,040 --> 01:51:21,160
But not before.
That Jesus is the first born

1871
01:51:21,160 --> 01:51:24,880
from among the dead.
The next verse in Psalm 2 is Ask

1872
01:51:24,880 --> 01:51:28,160
of me, and I'll make the nations
your inheritance, the ends of

1873
01:51:28,160 --> 01:51:31,000
the earth your possession so.
Praise God that's happening.

1874
01:51:31,040 --> 01:51:32,040
Yeah, that.
Oh, that.

1875
01:51:32,040 --> 01:51:33,400
Praise that we're we're doing
that so.

1876
01:51:33,520 --> 01:51:35,360
But this is the point.
It's happening now.

1877
01:51:35,360 --> 01:51:38,800
It has happened, it is
happening, and it will happen

1878
01:51:38,920 --> 01:51:46,040
manifestly at the 7th trumpet,
OK.

1879
01:51:48,560 --> 01:51:53,160
Right, so it's getting a little
bit late and a little bit long.

1880
01:51:54,080 --> 01:51:56,960
I want to get to the real big
issue.

1881
01:51:58,200 --> 01:52:00,960
OK.
And so I'm going to, this is a

1882
01:52:00,960 --> 01:52:06,520
bit of a long clip, but I think
it's it's worth going into this

1883
01:52:06,520 --> 01:52:08,800
will be the last one and then
maybe we wrap.

1884
01:52:08,800 --> 01:52:13,880
Up, I think.
I think post millennialism is

1885
01:52:13,880 --> 01:52:19,000
not honest because, well, let me
just quote James White here.

1886
01:52:19,040 --> 01:52:22,720
He's kind of fun.
So James White's a Christian

1887
01:52:22,720 --> 01:52:27,000
nationalist on Twitter, so he's
going to quote this well known

1888
01:52:27,000 --> 01:52:35,560
Christian nationalist pastor.
What is the greatest enemy I

1889
01:52:35,560 --> 01:52:39,640
could ever conceive of that
needs to be crushed under the

1890
01:52:39,640 --> 01:52:44,680
feet of Christ?
Oops, lost that.

1891
01:52:45,040 --> 01:52:47,040
That's a good question, right?
What is what?

1892
01:52:47,080 --> 01:52:49,520
What do you think, Dave?
What do you think the greatest

1893
01:52:49,560 --> 01:52:53,400
enemy that needs to be crushed
under the heel of Christ is?

1894
01:52:54,440 --> 01:52:56,840
Oh, I'd say Lucifer.
I mean, there's direct, there's

1895
01:52:56,840 --> 01:53:01,400
direct reference to crushing the
head in Genesis, right?

1896
01:53:01,960 --> 01:53:03,600
Right.
Yeah, right.

1897
01:53:03,600 --> 01:53:06,680
And that basically and that it's
specifically what is what is

1898
01:53:06,680 --> 01:53:08,520
Lucifer?
He, he is sin and death.

1899
01:53:09,360 --> 01:53:14,920
Yep.
What is the greatest enemy I

1900
01:53:14,920 --> 01:53:18,960
could ever conceive of that
needs to be crushed under the

1901
01:53:18,960 --> 01:53:22,280
feet of Christ?
Great question, James.

1902
01:53:22,280 --> 01:53:24,280
Maybe you'll invite me on the
dividing line so we can debate

1903
01:53:24,280 --> 01:53:25,560
this.
We can.

1904
01:53:25,760 --> 01:53:28,600
Try to arrange it.
Are you kidding?

1905
01:53:28,720 --> 01:53:32,240
You ready for the answer?
The secular state?

1906
01:53:35,360 --> 01:53:38,560
No.
OK, we're talking about a

1907
01:53:38,560 --> 01:53:40,440
different gospel at this point,
right?

1908
01:53:42,320 --> 01:53:47,000
Yeah.
What is the enemy what is the

1909
01:53:47,000 --> 01:53:51,320
what is the enemy What is it
that Christ overcomes through

1910
01:53:51,320 --> 01:53:56,120
the atonement and resurrection.
He liberates us from sin and

1911
01:53:56,120 --> 01:53:57,880
from death.
It's very simple.

1912
01:53:57,880 --> 01:54:03,280
This is gospel basics one O 1
right and this is even gospel

1913
01:54:03,280 --> 01:54:06,960
basics that we're in generally
perfect alignment with

1914
01:54:06,960 --> 01:54:10,280
Protestant sin.
They also believe that Christ

1915
01:54:10,280 --> 01:54:13,480
conquered sin and death, that
that's what that's why he came.

1916
01:54:13,480 --> 01:54:15,960
That's what it was all about.
He wasn't here as a political

1917
01:54:15,960 --> 01:54:18,080
savior.
He was here to conquer sin and

1918
01:54:18,080 --> 01:54:22,280
death.
What that, what that preacher

1919
01:54:22,280 --> 01:54:25,080
just was quoted saying was no,
no, no.

1920
01:54:25,400 --> 01:54:30,280
The enemy that Christ needed to
come to conquer is the

1921
01:54:30,280 --> 01:54:35,400
unchristian state, the secular
state, the government that

1922
01:54:35,400 --> 01:54:42,840
Christ did not control.
I mean, this is, we're going,

1923
01:54:42,840 --> 01:54:45,960
we're going back to, to this is
like Christian Judaism, right?

1924
01:54:46,160 --> 01:54:51,240
We're going back to a, a savior
who doesn't save us from sin and

1925
01:54:51,240 --> 01:54:52,800
death.
It's a savior who saves us from

1926
01:54:52,800 --> 01:54:57,280
the from the evil government.
What we're going back to, if we

1927
01:54:57,280 --> 01:54:59,840
follow this out, is the 100
Years War.

1928
01:55:01,200 --> 01:55:06,520
Right.
That's what it is and for, and

1929
01:55:07,160 --> 01:55:09,840
for those who don't know what
that is, I encourage you to go

1930
01:55:09,840 --> 01:55:13,280
do some looking because it
should both serve as a warning

1931
01:55:13,280 --> 01:55:16,760
and kind of frighten you with
where these guys are talking.

1932
01:55:18,240 --> 01:55:20,640
Right.
That's an incredible rhetoric

1933
01:55:20,800 --> 01:55:22,840
and terrible distortion of the
gospel.

1934
01:55:23,120 --> 01:55:27,360
Yeah, about as, as, as reversed
from the gospel as you can get.

1935
01:55:27,360 --> 01:55:29,520
And he knows that, right.
The guy on the right there,

1936
01:55:30,520 --> 01:55:32,600
that's why he's so shocked.
He's I can't believe.

1937
01:55:33,520 --> 01:55:35,680
I can't believe your guy just
said this.

1938
01:55:37,240 --> 01:55:38,240
What about?
Stephen Wilson.

1939
01:55:38,240 --> 01:55:39,800
Has to say about this.
Same thing.

1940
01:55:40,040 --> 01:55:42,040
No, it's not the same thing.
That is not the.

1941
01:55:43,240 --> 01:55:45,160
Did you hear what he said?
What about sin and death?

1942
01:55:46,160 --> 01:55:50,000
Same thing, no.
Same thing.

1943
01:55:50,840 --> 01:55:53,760
Same thing.
What about sin and death?

1944
01:55:53,760 --> 01:55:56,480
I thought Christ came to conquer
sin and death, not to liberate

1945
01:55:56,480 --> 01:55:59,440
us from the Romans.
Same.

1946
01:55:59,600 --> 01:56:02,280
Thing.
Great response, right?

1947
01:56:02,280 --> 01:56:06,160
Really sticks to landing.
No, it's not the same.

1948
01:56:06,400 --> 01:56:09,520
That is not the same thing.
The nations, I want to remind

1949
01:56:09,520 --> 01:56:10,800
you, Doug, are a drop in the
bucket.

1950
01:56:12,280 --> 01:56:14,600
What has happened to James White
to come to that kind of

1951
01:56:14,600 --> 01:56:17,600
conclusion like that?
That is really concerning to me.

1952
01:56:17,720 --> 01:56:21,200
That took my breath away to say
that.

1953
01:56:21,360 --> 01:56:25,000
And he said it with you because
I, I watched that, that thing

1954
01:56:25,440 --> 01:56:27,600
that is alarming.
To pause that for just a second.

1955
01:56:27,600 --> 01:56:32,280
That exactly proves the problem.
That was the nicest way I've

1956
01:56:32,280 --> 01:56:35,080
ever heard anyone say who hurt
you, bro?

1957
01:56:35,080 --> 01:56:38,840
What happened?
What happened?

1958
01:56:39,040 --> 01:56:41,680
What happened to James White?
Who hurt you bro?

1959
01:56:46,240 --> 01:56:48,440
Yeah, yeah.
Well, alright.

1960
01:56:48,440 --> 01:56:51,400
Sorry, seeing James White on
Twitter, I mean, he's a very,

1961
01:56:51,400 --> 01:56:53,880
he's a very controversial
Christian nationalist.

1962
01:56:53,880 --> 01:56:56,880
Dude takes things a little more
extreme than these guys.

1963
01:56:58,040 --> 01:57:04,400
He is a great pessimist right
now post millennialism has

1964
01:57:04,400 --> 01:57:09,200
become very pessimistic until
the 500 year plan unfolds.

1965
01:57:09,760 --> 01:57:15,240
And I would say that the AW mill
is inherently optimistic because

1966
01:57:15,240 --> 01:57:18,560
he's saying there's nothing that
is lacking in the glory of

1967
01:57:18,560 --> 01:57:20,920
Christ's Kingdom.
Even through suffering in the

1968
01:57:20,920 --> 01:57:23,880
present, he is winning the
victory.

1969
01:57:23,880 --> 01:57:29,040
Jesus said so clearly when he
said my Kingdom is not of this

1970
01:57:29,040 --> 01:57:31,960
world, we would fight.
But then he said, be of good

1971
01:57:31,960 --> 01:57:33,760
cheer.
When right now.

1972
01:57:34,680 --> 01:57:36,080
Do you believe the Kingdom of
God grows?

1973
01:57:37,840 --> 01:57:40,000
I mean, that was a great point
where he went back to the

1974
01:57:40,000 --> 01:57:42,400
eschatology stuff.
We were talking about how it

1975
01:57:42,400 --> 01:57:46,440
ends and the post Millennialists
are very pessimistic right now.

1976
01:57:46,440 --> 01:57:49,320
Why?
Because they expect things to

1977
01:57:49,320 --> 01:57:52,760
get better until Christ returns,
that we get to a point where

1978
01:57:52,760 --> 01:57:56,000
establish Zion, we'll look
around, right?

1979
01:57:56,000 --> 01:57:59,120
I'm not seeing it.
And he's saying, like, I wish I

1980
01:57:59,120 --> 01:58:00,760
could see that, but I don't see
it.

1981
01:58:00,760 --> 01:58:04,280
And so because things are
getting worse and your

1982
01:58:04,280 --> 01:58:08,120
eschatology says things are
supposed to get better, right?

1983
01:58:08,160 --> 01:58:10,720
People are getting a little
desperate and that's what he's

1984
01:58:10,720 --> 01:58:13,600
worried about.
Yeah, this guy here that there

1985
01:58:14,040 --> 01:58:16,640
that the camera's on right now,
He's one of Doug's right hand

1986
01:58:16,640 --> 01:58:19,560
men, right?
Yep, Yep, that is Doug's.

1987
01:58:20,480 --> 01:58:25,080
Well, I won't say that.
We all know what I was going to

1988
01:58:25,080 --> 01:58:26,880
say.
I knew what you were going to

1989
01:58:26,880 --> 01:58:30,240
say.
I know you do, all right.

1990
01:58:30,240 --> 01:58:31,920
Yep, that's who that is.
Yep.

1991
01:58:33,160 --> 01:58:35,680
Sure, like a mustard seed.
OK, so.

1992
01:58:36,040 --> 01:58:37,200
But but you.
But I like this.

1993
01:58:37,240 --> 01:58:39,480
I'm like I'm with you.
Through much tribulation we

1994
01:58:39,480 --> 01:58:41,360
enter.
Because we enter through

1995
01:58:41,360 --> 01:58:44,720
tribulation does not make me
pessimistic.

1996
01:58:44,720 --> 01:58:49,920
I'm so sick of that.
Second, second emotion, but

1997
01:58:49,920 --> 01:58:52,280
particularly I.
Desperately trying to agree with

1998
01:58:52,280 --> 01:58:56,120
him, right?
I'm just adding I'm putting a

1999
01:58:56,120 --> 01:58:57,440
little.
See my point, Jared?

2000
01:58:58,800 --> 01:59:01,480
There's just there, you know,
they've changed their dress.

2001
01:59:01,480 --> 01:59:03,720
They're, they're warriors.
You know, they're, they're,

2002
01:59:03,720 --> 01:59:06,400
they're tough guys.
They're out there, they're out

2003
01:59:06,400 --> 01:59:08,480
there with the tats.
You know, they're ready to show

2004
01:59:08,480 --> 01:59:10,760
how tough they are because they
got to take back the culture for

2005
01:59:10,760 --> 01:59:12,160
Christ.
They got to bring in this post

2006
01:59:12,160 --> 01:59:14,960
millennial vision and they've
riled everyone up.

2007
01:59:15,200 --> 01:59:16,640
And I'm saying calm down, you
guys.

2008
01:59:16,680 --> 01:59:18,280
You know what, just take a chill
pill.

2009
01:59:18,480 --> 01:59:21,120
Now we're no, wait, wait, this
is really important.

2010
01:59:21,520 --> 01:59:25,960
Everybody's already riled up all
No, I'm, I'm a.

2011
01:59:27,440 --> 01:59:29,920
Very optimistic on Mill.
Yeah, yeah.

2012
01:59:30,040 --> 01:59:30,960
Peace.
Like a river.

2013
01:59:31,040 --> 01:59:34,480
Out there, out there in the
countryside, the thing that

2014
01:59:34,480 --> 01:59:39,720
riled everybody up was the
behavior of the secular state.

2015
01:59:40,160 --> 01:59:42,720
It wasn't because I've I've got
people.

2016
01:59:42,720 --> 01:59:46,280
Yeah, but I expect.
That so why but the point the

2017
01:59:46,480 --> 01:59:50,120
people who got riled up weren't
expecting it because they

2018
01:59:50,120 --> 01:59:54,200
believed the myth of neutrality.
They believed it was possible

2019
01:59:54,200 --> 01:59:58,000
for us to go cruise down the
road at on autopilot and

2020
01:59:58,000 --> 02:00:01,960
everything's decent and orderly
because this is America when

2021
02:00:01,960 --> 02:00:05,440
the.
Van Till uses the phrase

2022
02:00:05,440 --> 02:00:07,400
epistemological self
consciousness.

2023
02:00:07,560 --> 02:00:10,800
When the when the bad guys
started to become sort of self

2024
02:00:10,800 --> 02:00:15,360
aware of their lust for power
and they started to reach for

2025
02:00:15,360 --> 02:00:18,880
everything, demanding to control
everything, they started they

2026
02:00:18,880 --> 02:00:22,040
started doing things like the
sex change and homosexual

2027
02:00:22,040 --> 02:00:25,320
marriage and.
Let me ask you a quick question,

2028
02:00:25,520 --> 02:00:28,640
because he's basically saying at
some point the bad guys figured

2029
02:00:28,640 --> 02:00:31,320
out that in a pluralistic
government, a pluralistic

2030
02:00:31,320 --> 02:00:36,280
society, all they've got to do
is just take control and rule

2031
02:00:36,280 --> 02:00:41,360
and reign.
Is that what we did?

2032
02:00:41,400 --> 02:00:43,400
The bad guys just show up five
years ago?

2033
02:00:43,400 --> 02:00:44,800
Is that when the bad guys showed
up?

2034
02:00:45,360 --> 02:00:47,960
No.
And, and look, I'm about to, I'm

2035
02:00:47,960 --> 02:00:51,800
about to say some stuff here
that again, probably isn't going

2036
02:00:51,880 --> 02:00:53,680
to land real well with a lot of
people.

2037
02:00:54,600 --> 02:00:57,200
But you know who put those bad
guys in power?

2038
02:00:58,200 --> 02:01:00,720
We all did.
We all took the vote.

2039
02:01:01,320 --> 02:01:07,440
We all did, right?
And so this is the part that I

2040
02:01:07,440 --> 02:01:11,600
find extremely arrogant, right?
And I'm going to paint a paint a

2041
02:01:11,600 --> 02:01:14,280
picture here because I think I
think both of these things are

2042
02:01:14,280 --> 02:01:17,080
true at the same time.
It's the same principle at work,

2043
02:01:17,520 --> 02:01:23,360
different environments.
When the healthcare debate was

2044
02:01:23,360 --> 02:01:28,600
raging back in Obama's first
term, they asked Nancy Pelosi,

2045
02:01:31,280 --> 02:01:34,080
isn't it clear that the American
people don't want this bill?

2046
02:01:35,560 --> 02:01:38,000
And she said, we're going to get
this bill.

2047
02:01:38,280 --> 02:01:40,840
If we have to go over the wall,
we'll go over it.

2048
02:01:41,040 --> 02:01:43,440
If we got to go under it, we'll
dig a hole.

2049
02:01:43,720 --> 02:01:45,960
If we got to go through it,
we'll build a bomb.

2050
02:01:46,080 --> 02:01:48,200
If we got to go around it, we'll
do that.

2051
02:01:48,440 --> 02:01:50,280
But one way or another, this is
coming.

2052
02:01:50,440 --> 02:01:55,640
We know better than you.
This are Christian nationalists

2053
02:01:55,640 --> 02:02:01,960
saying we know better than you,
sit down, shut up, we will set

2054
02:02:01,960 --> 02:02:06,200
the agenda, you will be happy
when we get to the destination.

2055
02:02:06,560 --> 02:02:11,320
It is the same arrogance,
different environment.

2056
02:02:12,160 --> 02:02:13,600
Right.
So let's be clear.

2057
02:02:13,760 --> 02:02:16,440
Things are bad.
But why are they bad?

2058
02:02:17,360 --> 02:02:21,560
They're bad because we let them
cheat.

2059
02:02:22,160 --> 02:02:26,440
We let them violate the
Constitution. 100%.

2060
02:02:27,400 --> 02:02:31,240
Therefore, the answer is we
violate the Constitution harder

2061
02:02:33,640 --> 02:02:39,040
or or maybe we can go back to
pluralism.

2062
02:02:39,560 --> 02:02:45,200
Maybe we can go back to we're
going to agree to disagree and

2063
02:02:45,200 --> 02:02:49,400
you can do drag time story hour
in your house for your

2064
02:02:49,400 --> 02:02:54,680
boyfriend, but you're not doing
it the public schools because

2065
02:02:54,680 --> 02:02:57,720
that's indecent behavior, not
because we're against your

2066
02:02:57,720 --> 02:03:01,480
religion, but because that is
indecent to do before children.

2067
02:03:02,880 --> 02:03:06,760
And look, let's just be clear,
you're not advocating for drag

2068
02:03:06,760 --> 02:03:09,720
time story hour, even in a home
in Zion, right?

2069
02:03:09,960 --> 02:03:13,240
There will be a, there will be a
standard that people will have

2070
02:03:13,240 --> 02:03:15,400
to kind of walk up to a little
bit, right?

2071
02:03:15,720 --> 02:03:20,320
But it will be a standard that
all can meet, no matter what

2072
02:03:20,320 --> 02:03:22,600
religion you're in.
Fair assessment.

2073
02:03:23,600 --> 02:03:26,400
For the most part, yeah.
Maybe not the not the satanic

2074
02:03:26,400 --> 02:03:28,600
virtual abusers, but.
No, no, no.

2075
02:03:28,680 --> 02:03:31,280
That, that, that.
Goes out right, obviously, but

2076
02:03:31,520 --> 02:03:34,080
it was the definition that
Brigham Young gave right at the

2077
02:03:34,080 --> 02:03:36,400
very end.
He's like, what is the principle

2078
02:03:36,560 --> 02:03:38,640
that qualifies you to be a
citizen of Zion?

2079
02:03:38,640 --> 02:03:40,960
You were going to let your
You're not going to harm your

2080
02:03:40,960 --> 02:03:43,160
neighbor.
You're going to bow the need of

2081
02:03:43,160 --> 02:03:45,120
Christ.
You're going to bow the need of

2082
02:03:45,120 --> 02:03:46,400
Christ.
You're not going to harm your

2083
02:03:46,400 --> 02:03:48,600
neighbor.
Perfect.

2084
02:03:50,080 --> 02:03:52,480
That's not happening right now,
right?

2085
02:03:52,520 --> 02:03:57,680
We, we watched, we watched a
lower lowercase P prophet

2086
02:03:57,680 --> 02:04:05,760
assassinated in Utah.
We've seen immigration crisis,

2087
02:04:05,880 --> 02:04:10,320
crime running rampant.
We find people going to prison

2088
02:04:10,320 --> 02:04:12,400
for praying in front of abortion
centers.

2089
02:04:13,920 --> 02:04:19,320
And then we're finding we're
having these murderers and and

2090
02:04:19,360 --> 02:04:23,840
and rapists going free with,
with narrative slap on the

2091
02:04:23,840 --> 02:04:27,200
wrist.
The system is falling apart, but

2092
02:04:27,200 --> 02:04:29,680
it's not falling apart because
of pluralism.

2093
02:04:29,680 --> 02:04:34,440
It's falling apart because one
religion, this woke left

2094
02:04:34,640 --> 02:04:38,800
religion, has overstepped the
bounds of the covenant.

2095
02:04:39,280 --> 02:04:41,440
They are violating the
constitutional law.

2096
02:04:42,240 --> 02:04:47,000
The solution is to pull them
back down, to reinstate the

2097
02:04:47,000 --> 02:04:52,080
Constitution as the standard,
the constitution that guarantees

2098
02:04:52,400 --> 02:04:57,640
that we can all share this
nation and worship according to

2099
02:04:57,640 --> 02:05:03,800
the dictates of our conscience.
The answer is not to out

2100
02:05:03,800 --> 02:05:09,480
tyrannize the left.
Right. 100% dude.

2101
02:05:09,720 --> 02:05:14,120
Well said.
So it's a false dichotomy,

2102
02:05:14,120 --> 02:05:18,680
right?
All of the things and a lot of

2103
02:05:18,680 --> 02:05:23,480
ordinary folks who were not
really steeped in theology got

2104
02:05:23,480 --> 02:05:27,080
freaked out.
I'm not freaking them out.

2105
02:05:28,160 --> 02:05:31,880
I I don't.
Know I'm I'm having, I'm having

2106
02:05:31,880 --> 02:05:36,000
people who get freaked out out
there and who are attracted to

2107
02:05:36,000 --> 02:05:39,320
what we're saying because what
we're saying is a, believe it or

2108
02:05:39,320 --> 02:05:46,680
not is a calming influence.
Go out there and reclaim this

2109
02:05:46,680 --> 02:05:51,680
country politically Not, not,
not morally, not spiritually,

2110
02:05:51,680 --> 02:05:55,120
politically, temporally.
Does that sound like putting

2111
02:05:55,120 --> 02:05:57,080
people at ease?
No.

2112
02:05:57,120 --> 02:05:59,840
And, and I think this is
something that that deserves a

2113
02:05:59,840 --> 02:06:03,760
little bit of analysis here
because he's not putting people

2114
02:06:03,760 --> 02:06:06,120
at ease, he's giving people a
target.

2115
02:06:07,240 --> 02:06:11,120
Yeah.
And both things like if you can,

2116
02:06:11,160 --> 02:06:16,720
if you can show people the
target, well, yeah, all of a

2117
02:06:16,720 --> 02:06:19,160
sudden they're no longer
freaking out because they're

2118
02:06:19,720 --> 02:06:22,320
they're planning their move,
right?

2119
02:06:22,320 --> 02:06:25,960
You've now given them direction,
and so don't.

2120
02:06:25,960 --> 02:06:27,160
They've been.
Promised.

2121
02:06:27,160 --> 02:06:29,840
They've been promised a hoax.
Right.

2122
02:06:30,600 --> 02:06:34,240
Don't hate.
Rise up, rise up.

2123
02:06:34,320 --> 02:06:37,760
And if we did, if we abolish
that First Amendment, we can

2124
02:06:37,760 --> 02:06:39,880
make this country Christian
again.

2125
02:06:40,480 --> 02:06:45,840
Yep, Yep.
Don't confuse calm with

2126
02:06:47,760 --> 02:06:53,960
determination, because I think
that's what Wilson and guys,

2127
02:06:55,120 --> 02:06:56,760
other Christian nationalists
have done.

2128
02:06:58,400 --> 02:07:01,040
They took people freaked out.
And I get being freaked out,

2129
02:07:01,560 --> 02:07:05,000
right?
I I understand it, but they've

2130
02:07:05,000 --> 02:07:08,360
taken people in a vulnerable
state and all they've done is

2131
02:07:09,320 --> 02:07:13,440
pointed them towards their their
enemy.

2132
02:07:13,440 --> 02:07:17,600
Their enemies, yeah.
It's no different.

2133
02:07:18,120 --> 02:07:22,160
It's it's no different than what
happened in World War 2.

2134
02:07:22,160 --> 02:07:24,200
Germany.
It's their fault.

2135
02:07:24,520 --> 02:07:29,680
Get them.
Yep, that's right.

2136
02:07:29,680 --> 02:07:31,320
I think.
I think so.

2137
02:07:31,640 --> 02:07:33,800
So this is This is why this
mattered.

2138
02:07:33,800 --> 02:07:35,640
I'll get to that once this
clip's done right.

2139
02:07:36,080 --> 02:07:38,440
God is in control.
So guy, I appreciate your saying

2140
02:07:38,440 --> 02:07:42,800
that, but on the ground I just,
I just different totally

2141
02:07:42,800 --> 02:07:45,080
disagree.
That is not what this has

2142
02:07:45,080 --> 02:07:48,720
created.
I, I think it's, I think it's

2143
02:07:48,720 --> 02:07:54,600
created people who've lost their
minds in this stuff.

2144
02:07:54,880 --> 02:07:56,840
I said it before, but calm down.
It's OK.

2145
02:07:57,280 --> 02:08:00,560
Jesus is on the throne.
Jesus is Lord, you, you, you

2146
02:08:00,560 --> 02:08:04,680
know he is Lord, not you know he
is Lord even when it's not going

2147
02:08:04,680 --> 02:08:06,080
well for you.
He is Lord.

2148
02:08:06,080 --> 02:08:09,800
Even when you have abusive
taxation, He is Lord.

2149
02:08:09,800 --> 02:08:11,840
Even when you're being pummeled,
he is Lord.

2150
02:08:11,840 --> 02:08:14,000
You know, that's the kind of
thing I think you need to calm

2151
02:08:14,000 --> 02:08:16,920
the sheep with.
Jesus loves his sheep.

2152
02:08:17,240 --> 02:08:20,680
Christ has died for his sheep.
Not one will be plucked from his

2153
02:08:20,680 --> 02:08:22,720
hand.
Not one will be lost.

2154
02:08:22,880 --> 02:08:24,600
The governing authorities can't
harm them.

2155
02:08:24,600 --> 02:08:27,280
Not one hair from their head.
Head can fall without the will

2156
02:08:27,480 --> 02:08:29,720
of the Father in heaven.
These are the kind of messages

2157
02:08:29,720 --> 02:08:31,600
we need.
What what I feel like we don't

2158
02:08:31,600 --> 02:08:38,280
need right now is people saying
go and exert and take back the

2159
02:08:38,280 --> 02:08:41,120
square because it's yours.
But what I want to point out is

2160
02:08:41,120 --> 02:08:42,800
the people you're worried about
that are setting their hair on

2161
02:08:42,800 --> 02:08:45,240
fire, they're not setting their
hair on fire because they

2162
02:08:45,240 --> 02:08:49,120
believe God has promised them.
They want America or they're

2163
02:08:49,120 --> 02:08:49,880
going to.
Yeah, yeah.

2164
02:08:49,880 --> 02:08:54,240
But but they're not actually
trusting the Lord for America.

2165
02:08:54,880 --> 02:08:56,480
The people that are setting
their hair on fire aren't doing

2166
02:08:56,480 --> 02:08:57,960
it.
What we're doing is really going

2167
02:08:57,960 --> 02:09:02,480
Yes, guys, God has promised us.
Here we have no continuing city.

2168
02:09:02,480 --> 02:09:05,200
We have to like, say that to.
Ourselves, let me let.

2169
02:09:05,880 --> 02:09:07,080
Me.
Just make sure everyone hears

2170
02:09:07,080 --> 02:09:09,960
that here we have no continuing
city.

2171
02:09:10,200 --> 02:09:14,800
We are not saving the city.
The city will be burned just as

2172
02:09:14,800 --> 02:09:16,440
it was in the days of Noah.
Yeah, yeah.

2173
02:09:18,600 --> 02:09:21,040
I think again, a really good
point here, right?

2174
02:09:25,880 --> 02:09:30,520
This false hope that's being
promised, this idea that if we,

2175
02:09:30,600 --> 02:09:34,920
if we rise up and we exert our
force, if we try to play by

2176
02:09:34,920 --> 02:09:40,320
their tactics and, and subvert
the Constitution, we're going

2177
02:09:40,320 --> 02:09:42,040
to, we're going to get this
utopia.

2178
02:09:42,440 --> 02:09:45,480
And that's what we need.
We can't be happy without this.

2179
02:09:45,480 --> 02:09:49,560
We can't, we can't be Christians
without this.

2180
02:09:49,640 --> 02:09:51,760
Our faith is incomplete without
this.

2181
02:09:54,200 --> 02:09:57,200
That's that's a very dangerous
gospel, right?

2182
02:09:57,200 --> 02:10:00,000
And it's very different from the
gospel that. 100%.

2183
02:10:00,320 --> 02:10:03,760
That Christ is teaching here and
he's kind of trying to excuse

2184
02:10:04,120 --> 02:10:09,080
away, but his point is, is that
we're not here to save nations,

2185
02:10:09,080 --> 02:10:14,640
we're here to save people.
You know, Jefferson had an

2186
02:10:14,640 --> 02:10:22,760
interesting quote too, which was
he was he was he was talking to

2187
02:10:22,760 --> 02:10:31,360
somebody about an issue and he
said, I stop and tremble when I

2188
02:10:31,360 --> 02:10:36,400
know that my God is both just
and merciful because unlike

2189
02:10:36,400 --> 02:10:40,320
people, nations have to pay for
their sins in this life because

2190
02:10:40,320 --> 02:10:42,320
nations don't exist on the other
side.

2191
02:10:43,720 --> 02:10:47,200
And I think that this is an
illusion to what this other guy

2192
02:10:47,200 --> 02:10:52,160
is saying here, this other
pastor to to Wilson, which is I,

2193
02:10:52,160 --> 02:10:57,200
I don't care about the nations.
We care about people, right?

2194
02:10:57,200 --> 02:11:02,720
Care about people.
And at certainly God cares about

2195
02:11:02,720 --> 02:11:10,680
Zion, but Zion is a people that
has been prepared to live in

2196
02:11:10,680 --> 02:11:15,040
that society, or at least the
nucleus of Zion, right?

2197
02:11:15,640 --> 02:11:18,120
Right.
To build it and fling open its

2198
02:11:18,120 --> 02:11:24,040
doors when these times come.
And that is a key component

2199
02:11:24,040 --> 02:11:26,440
there I think that that we can't
escape.

2200
02:11:27,400 --> 02:11:32,000
Yeah, the the, the, the Zion air
quotes that this guy is arguing

2201
02:11:32,000 --> 02:11:35,160
for is the antithesis of the
Zion that that we understand as

2202
02:11:35,160 --> 02:11:37,160
Mormons.
Yep, absolutely.

2203
02:11:37,160 --> 02:11:40,080
It's the antithesis.
And so clearly, God not only

2204
02:11:40,080 --> 02:11:45,920
doesn't want the salvation of of
this false Zion, it's not even

2205
02:11:45,920 --> 02:11:48,120
Zion.
Right.

2206
02:11:48,360 --> 02:11:50,560
So it's not continuing, but it
will be.

2207
02:11:50,560 --> 02:11:53,400
It will be redeemed and then it
will be, then it will.

2208
02:11:53,520 --> 02:11:57,400
Die and rise again.
OK, I've got to jump in here.

2209
02:11:57,400 --> 02:12:00,240
I I happen to bring a copy of
the Westminster Confession

2210
02:12:00,240 --> 02:12:04,280
faith.
It obligates me to want to ask

2211
02:12:04,280 --> 02:12:06,600
for America.
OK, OK.

2212
02:12:07,600 --> 02:12:12,120
So he's saying his faith
requires him to ask God to

2213
02:12:12,120 --> 02:12:13,960
demand that God give him
America.

2214
02:12:14,880 --> 02:12:17,120
Give me America for my for my
Holy Land.

2215
02:12:19,240 --> 02:12:21,800
He's a nursing father, right?
That's what it says.

2216
02:12:23,120 --> 02:12:28,360
I want the civil government to
provide the protection, justice,

2217
02:12:28,960 --> 02:12:31,920
those things that are good so
that the church continue to do

2218
02:12:31,920 --> 02:12:36,240
her work.
But I pray for and this is this

2219
02:12:36,240 --> 02:12:39,240
is where I think the Matthew 28
thing comes here.

2220
02:12:39,720 --> 02:12:44,040
I think, I think you when you
when you say nations, I didn't

2221
02:12:44,040 --> 02:12:45,840
want to get here yet.
I know our time's getting short.

2222
02:12:46,720 --> 02:12:49,040
When you say nations, I'm not
understanding it the same way

2223
02:12:49,040 --> 02:12:51,240
you are.
That's part of the issue.

2224
02:12:51,240 --> 02:12:54,400
I just say.
So what he refers to by nations

2225
02:12:54,400 --> 02:12:57,360
is the a lot of the Christian
nationalists refer to the Great

2226
02:12:57,360 --> 02:13:03,160
Commission as justification.
This is God commanding us to to

2227
02:13:03,440 --> 02:13:05,720
make Christian nationalists
happen.

2228
02:13:06,000 --> 02:13:09,280
Christian nationalism happen
because Christ says go and

2229
02:13:09,280 --> 02:13:12,680
disciple the nations.
And they're like, oh, disciple

2230
02:13:12,680 --> 02:13:14,680
of the nations?
In other words, make disciples

2231
02:13:14,680 --> 02:13:16,720
out of the nations.
In other words, make the

2232
02:13:16,720 --> 02:13:21,200
political organizations of the
world explicitly Christian.

2233
02:13:21,200 --> 02:13:25,880
Would that make sense?
Yes, but that is a stupid

2234
02:13:25,880 --> 02:13:27,840
reading of that scripture
because.

2235
02:13:27,840 --> 02:13:31,360
Absolutely is right.
Because what, what he's mean by

2236
02:13:31,360 --> 02:13:36,080
nations is all peoples, right,
Individual, right, Yeah.

2237
02:13:36,720 --> 02:13:38,960
Yeah, I know.
I I was talking about this with

2238
02:13:38,960 --> 02:13:42,040
Joshua Erickson, who knows
Hebrew better than I do.

2239
02:13:43,480 --> 02:13:45,800
And I'm like, if he, if Christ
were saying this Great

2240
02:13:45,800 --> 02:13:47,640
Commission in Hebrew, what would
he be saying?

2241
02:13:47,720 --> 02:13:49,560
Go and make disciples of the
goyim.

2242
02:13:51,920 --> 02:13:53,720
Uh huh.
Gotcha.

2243
02:13:54,640 --> 02:13:55,920
Right.
These are peoples, these are

2244
02:13:55,920 --> 02:13:57,840
communities.
But the, the, But he's not

2245
02:13:57,840 --> 02:14:00,000
talking about the political
structures.

2246
02:14:00,000 --> 02:14:02,480
That is not what the word meant
back then.

2247
02:14:03,800 --> 02:14:06,280
Gotcha.
All the people, however, they're

2248
02:14:06,280 --> 02:14:08,680
groups.
People groups, people groups out

2249
02:14:08,680 --> 02:14:10,280
of every tribe, tongue, people
and nation.

2250
02:14:10,280 --> 02:14:11,960
Because those nations are going
to be judged on the last.

2251
02:14:11,960 --> 02:14:13,880
It doesn't say out of it says
disciple the nation.

2252
02:14:13,880 --> 02:14:17,360
So, so but it doesn't Revelation
and and it does say in

2253
02:14:17,360 --> 02:14:20,280
revelation they they're called
from out of every tribe tongue

2254
02:14:20,280 --> 02:14:22,360
people.
And it says, Doug that those

2255
02:14:22,360 --> 02:14:27,040
nations will be judged.
How if all the nations were

2256
02:14:27,040 --> 02:14:30,600
saved before Christ came to or
bowed to knee and were saved,

2257
02:14:30,920 --> 02:14:33,000
why are they going to be judged?
Revelation.

2258
02:14:33,000 --> 02:14:35,440
Because Paul says in Corinthians
it will all appear before the

2259
02:14:35,440 --> 02:14:37,840
judgement seat of Christ.
I mean, that was a pretty good

2260
02:14:37,840 --> 02:14:39,840
question, right?
If if Christian.

2261
02:14:39,840 --> 02:14:40,920
Nationalism.
Is true.

2262
02:14:40,920 --> 02:14:44,520
If Christian nationalism is
God's plan, and we're going to

2263
02:14:44,520 --> 02:14:47,040
go and we're going to make every
country in this world a

2264
02:14:47,040 --> 02:14:51,080
Christian nationalist country,
then why is why does Revelation

2265
02:14:51,080 --> 02:14:55,280
say God's going to judge the
world when he comes back?

2266
02:14:56,400 --> 02:14:59,120
Right, because if the Christian
nationalists are successful,

2267
02:15:00,240 --> 02:15:02,200
well, there's no need to judge
the nations.

2268
02:15:02,880 --> 02:15:05,280
No, we have heaven on earth.
Yep.

2269
02:15:05,920 --> 02:15:07,600
We're there.
We've arrived.

2270
02:15:07,600 --> 02:15:13,160
We arrived without him.
And so Doug was just saying

2271
02:15:13,160 --> 02:15:15,240
because I pause, I didn't quite
pause it fast enough.

2272
02:15:15,240 --> 02:15:19,240
Doug was saying, well, Judge,
everybody's judged right.

2273
02:15:19,240 --> 02:15:22,120
We all will stand before the
judgement bar of Christ whether

2274
02:15:22,120 --> 02:15:25,560
we are good or bad, no?
No, no, not, not, not in the

2275
02:15:25,560 --> 02:15:28,000
sense of revelations talking.
Revelations talking about the

2276
02:15:28,000 --> 02:15:30,720
finality of wrath.
The bowls of wrath, the the the

2277
02:15:30,720 --> 02:15:32,920
the the crushing.
Before, but maybe a question, I

2278
02:15:32,920 --> 02:15:34,640
just have a question for you.
As you brought this up, you

2279
02:15:34,640 --> 02:15:38,080
believe that this with Westman?
Now this was fascinating, right?

2280
02:15:38,080 --> 02:15:40,320
Because he just was like, no,
that is not what it means in

2281
02:15:40,320 --> 02:15:42,960
context.
This is not judgement as in, you

2282
02:15:42,960 --> 02:15:47,640
know, receive your justice for
your works, for your life.

2283
02:15:47,800 --> 02:15:51,280
Whether you know no, this is
judgement as in wrath of God.

2284
02:15:51,280 --> 02:15:53,400
You know dogs and cats living
together.

2285
02:15:55,320 --> 02:15:59,320
Did you do this is Ghostbusters?
Yes, this is Ghostbusters level

2286
02:15:59,880 --> 02:16:02,280
apocalypse, right?
This is the Book of Revelation.

2287
02:16:02,440 --> 02:16:05,960
When God's judging the nations
in the book of Revelations, he's

2288
02:16:05,960 --> 02:16:09,120
not saying, all right, America,
were you a good boy or a bad

2289
02:16:09,120 --> 02:16:11,040
boy?
Right.

2290
02:16:11,560 --> 02:16:14,360
The judgement described in
Revelation is coming back and

2291
02:16:14,360 --> 02:16:18,000
saying y'all in trouble.
I'm getting the belt.

2292
02:16:18,920 --> 02:16:25,400
Yep.
So he he he just completely

2293
02:16:25,400 --> 02:16:28,840
dismantled their the argument
that he was making about the

2294
02:16:28,840 --> 02:16:34,040
Gentiles discipling the nation's
being a call to go out and and

2295
02:16:34,040 --> 02:16:36,520
create Christian nationalist
countries.

2296
02:16:39,680 --> 02:16:42,040
And he just immediately
interjects with kind of like

2297
02:16:42,040 --> 02:16:47,000
this completely moot point,
rather than being like, Oh,

2298
02:16:47,120 --> 02:16:50,200
well, that maybe you're right
there.

2299
02:16:50,920 --> 02:16:53,400
You just kind of neatly like,
let's just change the topic.

2300
02:16:53,959 --> 02:16:56,680
So you believe that the civil
magistrate has the duty of

2301
02:16:56,680 --> 02:16:59,680
protecting the church?
I believe it has the the

2302
02:16:59,680 --> 02:17:04,680
responsibility to pro to promote
justice and to protect it from

2303
02:17:04,680 --> 02:17:08,320
lawless aggression so that the
church in her sphere right I'm

2304
02:17:08,400 --> 02:17:11,400
I'm a sphere sovereignty guy in
her sphere should be left to do

2305
02:17:11,400 --> 02:17:14,360
her work.
Isn't that interesting, right?

2306
02:17:14,559 --> 02:17:16,680
This is this is.
He sounds a lot like Benson

2307
02:17:17,360 --> 02:17:19,959
right here.
This sounds very much like this.

2308
02:17:19,959 --> 02:17:23,120
What is the role of government?
To protect rights?

2309
02:17:23,840 --> 02:17:26,240
Why?
So that the church can do its

2310
02:17:26,240 --> 02:17:27,719
job.
Yep.

2311
02:17:28,959 --> 02:17:31,320
Yep, simple as that.
Was the role of government

2312
02:17:32,719 --> 02:17:36,480
protect rights?
An unimpeded, uninhanded.

2313
02:17:36,879 --> 02:17:38,920
And do you believe the civil
mastery has enough, has the

2314
02:17:38,920 --> 02:17:42,360
responsibility before God to
protect the church in a way it

2315
02:17:42,360 --> 02:17:45,719
doesn't have that responsibility
to protect a mosque or a

2316
02:17:45,719 --> 02:17:50,000
Buddhist temple?
That's an interesting question.

2317
02:17:50,320 --> 02:17:51,719
That's a really interesting
question.

2318
02:17:51,719 --> 02:17:54,240
Why wouldn't it?
Why not?

2319
02:17:55,160 --> 02:17:57,520
Why would so?
So like if you burn down a

2320
02:17:57,520 --> 02:17:59,760
church, you go to jail for
arson, but if you burn down a

2321
02:17:59,760 --> 02:18:01,600
mosque, you don't go to jail for
arson.

2322
02:18:03,320 --> 02:18:07,000
Is that what he's asking?
Why would you ask?

2323
02:18:07,120 --> 02:18:09,280
Why would you ask such a thing?
Right.

2324
02:18:09,440 --> 02:18:11,040
It blew me away when I heard him
saying this.

2325
02:18:11,040 --> 02:18:13,520
I'm like, am I?
Am I hearing correctly?

2326
02:18:13,840 --> 02:18:17,879
But no, he repeats it.
I the yeah, I'm, I'm, I like our

2327
02:18:17,879 --> 02:18:19,639
system here in the United
States.

2328
02:18:19,680 --> 02:18:21,520
I I.
This is where that's not here,

2329
02:18:21,520 --> 02:18:24,480
that's not the system that they
were representing in the

2330
02:18:24,480 --> 02:18:25,400
Westminster.
Right.

2331
02:18:25,400 --> 02:18:29,400
But the 1788, I mean, Deyoung
just made a point on this,

2332
02:18:29,400 --> 02:18:31,160
right?
In his article he just made a

2333
02:18:31,160 --> 02:18:33,600
big point that they're two
radically different opposed

2334
02:18:33,600 --> 02:18:35,040
views.
Well, no, but I'm just going

2335
02:18:35,040 --> 02:18:36,959
with the American version.
It says you're supposed to

2336
02:18:36,959 --> 02:18:39,760
protect the church, but it does.
Of our common in America.

2337
02:18:39,799 --> 02:18:40,719
Of our common Lord.
Right.

2338
02:18:40,719 --> 02:18:44,040
But if you read, if you read it
carefully and all those who

2339
02:18:44,040 --> 02:18:46,840
practice whatever, yeah, it goes
on to say something like that.

2340
02:18:46,840 --> 02:18:49,879
But it's not talking about Islam
or Buddhism.

2341
02:18:50,000 --> 02:18:53,680
Yeah, I believe in the same way
to maintain justice, to maintain

2342
02:18:53,680 --> 02:18:56,400
the peace and protection, to not
let mosque be attacked, They

2343
02:18:56,400 --> 02:18:59,120
need to, they need to protect
that, those people too.

2344
02:18:59,200 --> 02:19:01,400
So they're not.
You don't think the civil

2345
02:19:01,400 --> 02:19:04,240
magistrate has any obligation to
protect the church in a distinct

2346
02:19:04,240 --> 02:19:07,520
way over against any other
religion?

2347
02:19:07,639 --> 02:19:09,799
Yeah, I mean.
I mean, isn't that the exact

2348
02:19:09,799 --> 02:19:12,000
opposite we just read in DNC 32,
right?

2349
02:19:12,080 --> 02:19:17,240
What do we?
Believe 100% and Justin I I just

2350
02:19:17,240 --> 02:19:19,719
thought of analogy an analogy
here as I was listening to this.

2351
02:19:20,080 --> 02:19:22,280
Do you know what the
Constitution is and the First

2352
02:19:22,280 --> 02:19:26,559
Amendment is it is the referee
in a football game or any game,

2353
02:19:26,920 --> 02:19:31,879
OK, it's going to set the rules
while the two opponents, which

2354
02:19:31,879 --> 02:19:36,240
are different ideas battle it
out on the battlefield of ideas

2355
02:19:37,200 --> 02:19:40,280
and the rules that that the
constitution is there.

2356
02:19:40,280 --> 02:19:44,000
The 1st Amendment is there to
say all these things are legal,

2357
02:19:44,080 --> 02:19:46,440
but you get violent, you're out
of bounds, right?

2358
02:19:46,440 --> 02:19:48,960
And that's a penalty.
But don't you think that the

2359
02:19:48,960 --> 02:19:52,040
players you don't like should,
you know, have their legs broken

2360
02:19:52,040 --> 02:19:54,960
before the match?
Oh, you know, I guess if it's a

2361
02:19:54,960 --> 02:19:57,320
basketball game, we can go ahead
and hobble Shaq.

2362
02:19:57,440 --> 02:19:59,800
We can, you know, because it's
not fair that he's, you know,

2363
02:20:00,640 --> 02:20:02,360
well.
No, I mean, Shaq's on my team.

2364
02:20:02,400 --> 02:20:03,600
Shaq's on my team.
No way.

2365
02:20:03,600 --> 02:20:06,080
No, no, Shaq's on my team.
No, we got a, it's Michael

2366
02:20:06,080 --> 02:20:06,880
Jordan.
We got a Shaq.

2367
02:20:07,720 --> 02:20:12,400
Right, right, right.
And so, yeah, like ultimately

2368
02:20:13,240 --> 02:20:17,000
another purpose of that First
Amendment is so that ideas can

2369
02:20:17,000 --> 02:20:23,440
clash in a peaceful way and then
have the truthfulness be exposed

2370
02:20:23,440 --> 02:20:26,880
through that conflict.
And so if you're going to

2371
02:20:26,880 --> 02:20:36,680
shortchange the game where you,
you can't have an honest debate

2372
02:20:36,680 --> 02:20:41,640
or conflict on these things,
well then how do we, how do we

2373
02:20:41,640 --> 02:20:43,920
get to the point to where we
discover truth?

2374
02:20:44,240 --> 02:20:46,760
You are hobbling the very
mechanism here.

2375
02:20:47,120 --> 02:20:50,400
And The thing is, is that if
they get their way, they will

2376
02:20:50,400 --> 02:20:54,320
define what truth is, not
letting the ideas play it out.

2377
02:20:55,000 --> 02:20:58,920
OK, I like that analogy, but
let's be honest here, right?

2378
02:20:59,200 --> 02:21:03,600
What he's really saying is I
don't have faith in my team,

2379
02:21:04,160 --> 02:21:06,080
therefore I need the other team
handicapped.

2380
02:21:06,760 --> 02:21:11,240
If Islam, if we couldn't burn
down Islamic mosques, the Islam

2381
02:21:11,240 --> 02:21:13,480
might win the hearts and minds
of the people.

2382
02:21:14,760 --> 02:21:20,160
Right.
I mean, it really shows the lack

2383
02:21:20,160 --> 02:21:27,600
of of faith that this Christian
nationalist worldview places.

2384
02:21:27,960 --> 02:21:32,520
It basically says we cannot win
in a free market of ideas and

2385
02:21:32,520 --> 02:21:34,360
therefore we need to take
control.

2386
02:21:35,160 --> 02:21:38,240
Yep.
People wouldn't choose Christ

2387
02:21:38,760 --> 02:21:42,200
unless the government's going to
make them behave as Christ wants

2388
02:21:42,200 --> 02:21:44,360
anyways, so then they might as
well.

2389
02:21:45,200 --> 02:21:48,880
Yep.
It's it's it's they're showing

2390
02:21:48,880 --> 02:21:50,560
lack of faith in their play.
And who's their player?

2391
02:21:50,560 --> 02:21:54,080
Their player is Jesus Christ.
Yeah.

2392
02:21:55,640 --> 02:21:58,080
Jesus, Jesus Christ and
Muhammad, who's going to win

2393
02:21:58,080 --> 02:22:02,800
this?
Well, I think we need to throw

2394
02:22:02,800 --> 02:22:07,720
out the referee because we need
Muhammad hobbled for the man

2395
02:22:07,720 --> 02:22:08,480
that's.
What he's arguing.

2396
02:22:08,480 --> 02:22:10,880
For that's kind of what he's
arguing, isn't it?

2397
02:22:10,880 --> 02:22:13,200
It's kind of a defeatist
attitude in my opinion It.

2398
02:22:13,480 --> 02:22:16,760
Is religious socialism The
government will decide the

2399
02:22:16,760 --> 02:22:21,040
winners and losers.
Yeah, Yep.

2400
02:22:21,840 --> 02:22:24,160
This is this is what I was
making the point with earlier.

2401
02:22:24,160 --> 02:22:27,720
I got the Buddhist, Buddhist,
Buddhist temple right here.

2402
02:22:28,440 --> 02:22:30,640
What?
What do I want the government,

2403
02:22:30,640 --> 02:22:35,840
Jared, to do for us, right, that
it doesn't do for them in terms

2404
02:22:35,840 --> 02:22:40,240
of in its main responsibility.
I'm not talking about advancing

2405
02:22:40,240 --> 02:22:42,080
generally morality.
I'm not talking about that.

2406
02:22:42,080 --> 02:22:46,320
I'm talking about the main
responsibility of protecting so

2407
02:22:46,320 --> 02:22:49,520
that we have an environment to
be left free to do our work.

2408
02:22:49,760 --> 02:22:51,720
What are you asking?
Well, if they protect the

2409
02:22:51,720 --> 02:22:55,200
church, you're protecting truth.
If they protect Islam, they're

2410
02:22:55,200 --> 02:22:57,960
protecting the law.
This this gets back to Calvin

2411
02:22:58,240 --> 02:23:01,840
who talks about the moral law of
God is that which is in natural

2412
02:23:01,840 --> 02:23:04,120
law.
Basically he says that and that

2413
02:23:04,120 --> 02:23:08,360
that is that is the principles
of the way the government it.

2414
02:23:08,360 --> 02:23:11,920
It maintains in the second table
that we're not lawlessly killing

2415
02:23:12,200 --> 02:23:14,480
our neighbor that that we're not
doing those things that are

2416
02:23:14,480 --> 02:23:18,440
harmful to our neighbor.
I want that protected, yes.

2417
02:23:18,760 --> 02:23:21,400
But Islam teaches things that
are harmful to our neighbor.

2418
02:23:21,400 --> 02:23:22,640
Right.
And that's why I don't want

2419
02:23:22,640 --> 02:23:25,200
religion in the public sphere.
If they're doing things that are

2420
02:23:25,200 --> 02:23:26,880
against the law, they need to be
dealt with.

2421
02:23:29,840 --> 02:23:31,040
Yeah, we're we're.
We need to.

2422
02:23:31,040 --> 02:23:32,440
That's interesting.
That's good to know.

2423
02:23:32,520 --> 02:23:35,160
That's what kind of I think that
is one of the key things.

2424
02:23:39,800 --> 02:23:44,800
Anyway, so this is this is the
tame version of Christian

2425
02:23:44,800 --> 02:23:47,720
nationalism, right?
This is Doug Wilson and his

2426
02:23:48,840 --> 02:23:52,640
little boy pastor who follows
him around.

2427
02:23:58,760 --> 02:24:01,800
That's that's their worldview.
And I I don't think it fits with

2428
02:24:01,800 --> 02:24:05,960
Mormonism and it doesn't get any
better from there.

2429
02:24:06,760 --> 02:24:11,720
No, it it gets significantly
worse.

2430
02:24:11,720 --> 02:24:16,000
So these are real quick.
These are just kind of I, I want

2431
02:24:16,000 --> 02:24:19,280
to show you what some, this is
the, the Joel Webbin that you

2432
02:24:19,320 --> 02:24:23,440
you talked about earlier.
These are they're working on a

2433
02:24:23,440 --> 02:24:26,000
documentary on explaining
Christian nationalism.

2434
02:24:27,320 --> 02:24:30,320
Oh, good.
So here's some clips from the

2435
02:24:30,520 --> 02:24:33,120
upcoming documentary.
Want to have a Christian culture

2436
02:24:33,120 --> 02:24:35,040
anywhere?
We want secularism instead.

2437
02:24:40,970 --> 02:24:43,970
Americans understood their
nation to be a Christian nation,

2438
02:24:45,040 --> 02:24:47,760
and that is despite the fact
that there's no mention,

2439
02:24:47,760 --> 02:24:50,440
explicit mention of Christ in
the Constitution of preamble.

2440
02:24:51,560 --> 02:24:54,840
And yeah, it was just commonly
understood.

2441
02:24:55,000 --> 02:24:59,720
Freedom of religion is, in all
intents purposes, a really bad

2442
02:24:59,720 --> 02:25:02,320
idea.
I don't want freedom of religion

2443
02:25:02,320 --> 02:25:04,640
because I don't think Jesus
wants freedom of religion.

2444
02:25:07,640 --> 02:25:10,480
No, he kind of does.
He kind of does.

2445
02:25:10,480 --> 02:25:12,160
This hasn't at all been what I
expected.

2446
02:25:13,760 --> 02:25:19,160
We Can't Sing God Bless America
and at the same time expect that

2447
02:25:19,160 --> 02:25:22,960
God won't curse America for the
permission of allowing other

2448
02:25:22,960 --> 02:25:25,800
people to worship gods on our
soil.

2449
02:25:26,920 --> 02:25:29,840
In the United States, it's it's
our, it's the great evil of our

2450
02:25:29,840 --> 02:25:32,360
day.
And so to to stop murdering

2451
02:25:32,360 --> 02:25:36,400
little babies will have
ineffable impact, I think.

2452
02:25:37,280 --> 02:25:39,720
Hey I agree, not murdering
little babies will have

2453
02:25:39,720 --> 02:25:42,200
ineffable impact.
What does that have to do with

2454
02:25:42,200 --> 02:25:46,200
Christian nationalism?
Did we?

2455
02:25:46,200 --> 02:25:51,400
Did we murder babies in in 1776?
No.

2456
02:25:51,920 --> 02:25:54,080
Did we have freedom of did we
have?

2457
02:25:54,400 --> 02:25:56,480
Did we not enshrine the First
Amendment though?

2458
02:25:57,360 --> 02:26:01,760
In fact, let me back that up,
because what they're contending

2459
02:26:01,760 --> 02:26:04,920
here is that the Constitution
doesn't go far enough.

2460
02:26:06,680 --> 02:26:10,840
Yeah, the towers had lost
tonics, those colonies.

2461
02:26:11,080 --> 02:26:14,680
Instead, if a woman was to do
anything knowingly that would

2462
02:26:14,680 --> 02:26:19,240
harm her child once the
quickening had happened, she

2463
02:26:19,240 --> 02:26:22,200
could be brought up for murder.
Right.

2464
02:26:23,480 --> 02:26:25,680
So this stuff was already there,
right?

2465
02:26:25,880 --> 02:26:28,960
If you want to get rid of if, if
you want to be done with this,

2466
02:26:29,120 --> 02:26:31,440
let's go back to those original
principles.

2467
02:26:31,680 --> 02:26:35,240
Let's go study what the pilgrims
had to say, what the founders

2468
02:26:35,240 --> 02:26:37,800
had to say.
Let's study what Joseph and

2469
02:26:37,800 --> 02:26:41,320
Brigham has to say about Zion
and about the role of

2470
02:26:41,320 --> 02:26:43,240
government.
Let's start there.

2471
02:26:44,440 --> 02:26:48,280
Isn't the First Amendment we all
have a right to murder babies,

2472
02:26:48,880 --> 02:26:50,000
and that's why we've got to
abolish?

2473
02:26:50,000 --> 02:26:54,040
No, it is not actually.
Oh, OK, I'm getting the really

2474
02:26:54,040 --> 02:26:56,400
wrong impression here.
Some reason, I don't know why.

2475
02:26:57,240 --> 02:26:59,040
I kind of got the impression
that they're like, we've got to

2476
02:26:59,040 --> 02:27:03,400
abolish freedom of religion in
America, which is the First

2477
02:27:03,400 --> 02:27:07,120
Amendment, because it prescribes
murdering babies.

2478
02:27:08,600 --> 02:27:11,080
It doesn't, though.
OK, OK.

2479
02:27:12,400 --> 02:27:15,160
Conservatives, Christians, we
have historically been really

2480
02:27:15,160 --> 02:27:18,760
good at talking and we have been
less good at acting.

2481
02:27:19,160 --> 02:27:22,200
We've been less good at building
political coalition, at

2482
02:27:22,200 --> 02:27:25,160
supporting Christian candidates
and putting them forward.

2483
02:27:25,240 --> 02:27:31,640
But the will to power is the
only true prerequisite for

2484
02:27:31,640 --> 02:27:33,960
change.
All throughout history, change

2485
02:27:33,960 --> 02:27:38,880
has occurred in biblical times,
in church history, gospel age

2486
02:27:38,880 --> 02:27:40,440
times.
Over the last 2000 years, we

2487
02:27:40,440 --> 02:27:44,120
have case after case after case
of radical political and

2488
02:27:44,120 --> 02:27:47,720
cultural change for entire
swaths of people, entire

2489
02:27:47,720 --> 02:27:55,120
nations, that occurred with a
remnant, a small but unified,

2490
02:27:55,560 --> 02:28:00,440
deliberate strategic minority
that had the will to power.

2491
02:28:02,320 --> 02:28:06,960
The Bolsheviks.
Yep, the will of power Tell me,

2492
02:28:07,240 --> 02:28:09,400
I just said.
Tell me this isn't communism.

2493
02:28:10,200 --> 02:28:12,440
Yeah.
Well, actually, so that's the

2494
02:28:12,440 --> 02:28:14,240
fascinating thing, right?
He mentioned that twice.

2495
02:28:14,240 --> 02:28:17,640
Will to power.
The term comes from Nietzsche,

2496
02:28:21,200 --> 02:28:24,000
and if people don't know who
Nietzsche was, he is a

2497
02:28:24,000 --> 02:28:31,520
self-proclaimed Antichrist.
His philosophy is the father of

2498
02:28:32,480 --> 02:28:36,480
of Freudian psychology,
Darwinism and biology, just

2499
02:28:36,480 --> 02:28:38,880
basically all of the really bad
stuff.

2500
02:28:38,880 --> 02:28:41,280
When the world kind of started
falling apart in modern times,

2501
02:28:41,360 --> 02:28:46,000
you know, Nietzsche is the
philosophical father of all of

2502
02:28:46,000 --> 02:28:47,280
that.
Yep.

2503
02:28:48,360 --> 02:28:57,360
And he's talks about this will
to power and as a, and, and he

2504
02:28:57,360 --> 02:29:00,640
refers to it in the context of,
as opposed to this idea of a

2505
02:29:00,640 --> 02:29:03,600
will to survival, right?
The other philosophers talk

2506
02:29:03,600 --> 02:29:06,520
about like, there's we human
beings, we animals and we all,

2507
02:29:06,560 --> 02:29:11,520
there's an instinctual desire to
survive, right?

2508
02:29:11,520 --> 02:29:13,280
And Nietzsche's taking that a
little further and saying

2509
02:29:13,280 --> 02:29:15,560
actually, it's not just to
survive.

2510
02:29:15,920 --> 02:29:18,400
There's not this instinct.
No, no, there's a there's this

2511
02:29:18,400 --> 02:29:27,000
instinct, will to power to well,
coercion, control.

2512
02:29:28,040 --> 02:29:31,040
It's he's describing the natural
man.

2513
02:29:31,080 --> 02:29:35,840
Well, yeah, will to power is the
natural man, says the

2514
02:29:35,840 --> 02:29:39,200
Antichrist, self-proclaimed
Antichrist Nietzsche.

2515
02:29:39,400 --> 02:29:41,440
And here we've got Christian
nationalism quoting.

2516
02:29:41,440 --> 02:29:43,280
You know how else was a big fan
of that phrase?

2517
02:29:43,280 --> 02:29:46,600
Will to power.
The Nazis.

2518
02:29:49,360 --> 02:29:51,000
Triumph of the will?
I guess so.

2519
02:29:51,040 --> 02:29:54,120
Triumph of the will, yeah.
That's, that's exactly, that's

2520
02:29:54,120 --> 02:29:57,480
how, that is exactly how Hitler
understood that Nietzschean

2521
02:29:57,480 --> 02:30:00,480
phrase.
And that, yeah, that is a

2522
02:30:00,480 --> 02:30:02,880
reference to the Nietzschean
phrase right there.

2523
02:30:03,080 --> 02:30:04,560
Because Nazis say, hey, you know
what?

2524
02:30:04,560 --> 02:30:09,600
If we can, if we're we're in the
right, we know we're in the

2525
02:30:09,600 --> 02:30:11,880
right.
There should be no other

2526
02:30:11,880 --> 02:30:13,960
opposition to us.
Let's just go in there and take

2527
02:30:13,960 --> 02:30:19,240
power, if we will it, we can
have it.

2528
02:30:21,720 --> 02:30:27,320
And I, I mean, OK, we all know
about Nick Fuentes, right?

2529
02:30:27,360 --> 02:30:30,000
I think most people probably
heard about this point because

2530
02:30:30,000 --> 02:30:34,280
he was on Tucker Carlson and
there's that huge debacle.

2531
02:30:34,280 --> 02:30:36,640
He's another, he's at the
probably the other extreme end

2532
02:30:36,640 --> 02:30:42,800
of Christian nationalism, right?
He's self-proclaimed in cell and

2533
02:30:43,320 --> 02:30:47,600
and a huge, huge fan of of of of
Hitler.

2534
02:30:49,840 --> 02:30:53,600
Yes.
But there is a running thread of

2535
02:30:53,600 --> 02:30:56,360
anti-Semitism throughout all of
this.

2536
02:30:56,360 --> 02:31:00,320
Christian nationalism as well.
Which is so fascinating because

2537
02:31:00,320 --> 02:31:04,680
it's not just now either.
This was a thing back then, way

2538
02:31:04,680 --> 02:31:08,080
back in the day during the Holy
Roman Empire, right?

2539
02:31:08,080 --> 02:31:10,000
You, you, one of the things
you're you can get burned at the

2540
02:31:10,000 --> 02:31:15,640
stake for is being a Judaizer.
What's it who's a Judaizer?

2541
02:31:16,120 --> 02:31:20,080
Anybody who believes there's any
legitimacy at all whatsoever

2542
02:31:20,080 --> 02:31:26,120
with anything Old Testament.
So if you're like, hey, you

2543
02:31:26,120 --> 02:31:29,760
know, that I kind of like, you
know, I kind of like this story

2544
02:31:29,760 --> 02:31:36,800
here in, in Ruth Judaizer,
Burnham, there is this weird,

2545
02:31:36,880 --> 02:31:42,240
weird preoccupation with the
Jews and Christian nationalism.

2546
02:31:43,600 --> 02:31:49,000
And I was really pondering why,
why I was so concerned about

2547
02:31:49,000 --> 02:31:51,440
this topic in the 1st place to
want to be able to come on the

2548
02:31:51,440 --> 02:31:55,240
podcast and discuss it because I
honestly don't think Christian

2549
02:31:55,240 --> 02:31:58,280
nationalism is going anywhere.
This is a dead end.

2550
02:31:58,400 --> 02:32:01,000
I I agree with that one pastor,
this is a pipe dream.

2551
02:32:02,720 --> 02:32:07,040
It's not going to happen.
They're not going to if they try

2552
02:32:07,040 --> 02:32:11,440
to do it communist style, right,
they're going to get shut down.

2553
02:32:11,600 --> 02:32:15,200
You think the January and you
think the January 6th backlash

2554
02:32:16,040 --> 02:32:19,040
on conservatives was bad.
Wait'll you see the backlash

2555
02:32:19,040 --> 02:32:22,280
these guys are going to cause
upon Christians if they, if they

2556
02:32:22,280 --> 02:32:25,440
try, if they go the communist
route, if they try to do the

2557
02:32:25,440 --> 02:32:27,880
coup, what they're talking about
right here in this video,

2558
02:32:27,880 --> 02:32:32,840
basically, if they actually try
and do that, the world is going

2559
02:32:32,840 --> 02:32:36,680
to turn on Christianity and say
this is a problem, it's got to

2560
02:32:36,680 --> 02:32:38,920
be stopped.
These guys are out of control.

2561
02:32:38,920 --> 02:32:42,720
They're radicals and they would
be right about those ones.

2562
02:32:42,920 --> 02:32:45,240
But it's going to apply to all
of us, right?

2563
02:32:46,880 --> 02:32:53,120
The other issue here is I think
that this is actually even if it

2564
02:32:53,120 --> 02:32:57,680
doesn't go anywhere, this
worldview is damning.

2565
02:33:00,240 --> 02:33:05,320
Right.
And that's really the heart of,

2566
02:33:06,120 --> 02:33:09,880
of the, of the issue here.
What kind of person are you now?

2567
02:33:10,560 --> 02:33:13,120
What kind of person are you
going to be in five years

2568
02:33:13,120 --> 02:33:17,640
drinking Christian nationalism?
You won't, you will not be able

2569
02:33:17,640 --> 02:33:20,480
to recognize yourself.
I, I, I guarantee it.

2570
02:33:20,480 --> 02:33:22,400
I mean, if you're really buying
into this stuff.

2571
02:33:26,040 --> 02:33:28,800
So here's the, here's the,
here's the deal, right?

2572
02:33:30,880 --> 02:33:32,440
The Christian nationalism breeds
it.

2573
02:33:32,520 --> 02:33:36,680
It's, it's, it's, it's
emotionally founded upon fear.

2574
02:33:38,280 --> 02:33:41,400
These guys aren't going out
there saying, Hey, you know,

2575
02:33:41,400 --> 02:33:43,600
come what may, I'm going to, I'm
me in my house.

2576
02:33:43,600 --> 02:33:48,760
We, we follow Christ.
These guys are like, we cannot

2577
02:33:48,760 --> 02:33:51,680
be Christians.
We cannot live our faith if we

2578
02:33:51,680 --> 02:33:57,240
have persecution and opposition.
What has Christ promised us?

2579
02:34:00,840 --> 02:34:05,920
He's promised us position.
Yep, that's that's our lot in

2580
02:34:05,920 --> 02:34:08,000
life.
But we can find joy even in

2581
02:34:08,000 --> 02:34:09,720
that, right?
Right.

2582
02:34:09,800 --> 02:34:12,120
Exactly.
But what if you build up your

2583
02:34:12,120 --> 02:34:16,720
faith around this idea that that
is a problem, That is the, the,

2584
02:34:16,800 --> 02:34:18,680
the bad things are happening
because we don't have this

2585
02:34:18,680 --> 02:34:21,680
Christian nationalism, Christian
nationalist utopia.

2586
02:34:21,920 --> 02:34:24,960
We don't have this Zion.
Then then you've kind of built

2587
02:34:24,960 --> 02:34:27,640
your faith around a false
premise and it will come

2588
02:34:27,640 --> 02:34:32,000
crashing down around your head.
Yeah, exactly.

2589
02:34:32,000 --> 02:34:36,800
It makes your heart brittle.
And when pressure squeezes on

2590
02:34:36,800 --> 02:34:39,880
that thing, it's going to
shatter.

2591
02:34:40,680 --> 02:34:45,360
And it also, it creates this
need for fault with the other

2592
02:34:45,360 --> 02:34:50,040
because if, if something bad
happens, if, if, if, if there's

2593
02:34:50,040 --> 02:34:52,320
a miscarriage in my family,
right?

2594
02:34:52,320 --> 02:34:55,160
It's God's judgement because
we're living in a wicked nation

2595
02:34:55,160 --> 02:35:01,000
that allows abortion.
It's their fault my wife had a

2596
02:35:01,000 --> 02:35:02,680
miscarriage.
It wasn't.

2597
02:35:02,680 --> 02:35:08,880
It wasn't God allowing me to be
tried and tested to see if if I

2598
02:35:08,880 --> 02:35:11,640
love Him, if and if I will do
all things whatsoever He

2599
02:35:11,640 --> 02:35:15,160
commandeth me, even in the in
the midst of of pain and

2600
02:35:15,160 --> 02:35:19,040
suffering, right.
It's now that person's fault.

2601
02:35:20,160 --> 02:35:23,640
And we're living in a world
right now that is going

2602
02:35:23,640 --> 02:35:26,640
downhill.
The, the tribulations and trials

2603
02:35:27,200 --> 02:35:31,880
have hardly even just begun.
And if when you experience

2604
02:35:31,880 --> 02:35:36,920
tribulation, you immediately
think it's that person's fault,

2605
02:35:40,120 --> 02:35:45,360
you are going to become filled
with hate and rage, right?

2606
02:35:45,520 --> 02:35:48,920
You're, you're going to spiral
because the, the pressures are

2607
02:35:48,920 --> 02:35:51,000
going to keep coming.
That's, that's, that's why we're

2608
02:35:51,000 --> 02:35:54,200
here to be tried and tested that
that's the feature.

2609
02:35:54,200 --> 02:35:56,600
That's not a defect.
And if you think that means

2610
02:35:56,600 --> 02:35:59,440
things are broken and you've got
to take control, as that

2611
02:35:59,440 --> 02:36:04,440
pressure builds, people are
going to start snapping, they're

2612
02:36:04,440 --> 02:36:11,360
going to snap.
And for whatever reason, right?

2613
02:36:11,480 --> 02:36:14,160
I don't, I don't quite get it.
But right now it's, it seems to

2614
02:36:14,160 --> 02:36:17,120
be directed to the Jews.
That's Fuentes, Candace Owens,

2615
02:36:17,120 --> 02:36:22,080
all these, all these well known
Christian nationalists, even

2616
02:36:22,080 --> 02:36:25,880
these guys right have this kind
of secret anti-Semitic reference

2617
02:36:25,880 --> 02:36:29,480
right there in there or the Nazi
reference, which is in itself

2618
02:36:29,480 --> 02:36:34,440
inherently anti-Semitic right
reference hidden right there in

2619
02:36:34,440 --> 02:36:40,360
the video.
And so my, my concern is that

2620
02:36:41,240 --> 02:36:44,920
it's not that you're going to
join Christian nationalism and,

2621
02:36:45,040 --> 02:36:48,520
and you're going to succeed in
creating a Christian nationalist

2622
02:36:49,000 --> 02:36:50,720
society.
And then we're going to live

2623
02:36:50,720 --> 02:36:51,920
under that.
And that's going to be wrong.

2624
02:36:51,920 --> 02:36:56,440
My concern is, is that this is
a, this is a false gospel.

2625
02:36:56,920 --> 02:37:04,040
This is a false, a false gospel.
And the, the ultimate conclusion

2626
02:37:04,040 --> 02:37:08,200
of, of, of buying into these
ideas that they're selling is

2627
02:37:08,200 --> 02:37:12,240
going to be nothing but
disappointment.

2628
02:37:14,520 --> 02:37:17,280
Oh, that's where it's got it,
yeah.

2629
02:37:17,280 --> 02:37:18,960
I mean, that's going to be in
disappointment.

2630
02:37:19,600 --> 02:37:21,360
Yep.
And that's where you lose faith.

2631
02:37:21,720 --> 02:37:24,600
That's that's where hope fails.
That's that, that isn't the

2632
02:37:24,600 --> 02:37:26,800
message of the Gospel.
It's not the message of Christ.

2633
02:37:27,160 --> 02:37:30,760
We don't, we don't need that.
And I, and I want to say as, as,

2634
02:37:30,920 --> 02:37:36,600
as as Mormons, we don't need
Christian nationalism to

2635
02:37:36,640 --> 02:37:39,040
establish Zion.
No.

2636
02:37:39,760 --> 02:37:43,600
Zion starts in the heart.
It starts with us in our heart.

2637
02:37:44,080 --> 02:37:49,560
If you have a heart that wants
to play victim and blame others

2638
02:37:49,560 --> 02:37:52,640
for the hardships that that
Christ has called you to take,

2639
02:37:53,400 --> 02:37:56,760
how can you have a pure heart?
How can we establish Zion?

2640
02:37:57,520 --> 02:38:00,280
These guys think that they're
all going to get along.

2641
02:38:00,600 --> 02:38:03,720
I did have an opportunity to
clip this one, but one of the

2642
02:38:03,720 --> 02:38:06,720
arguments was that, hey,
Christian nationalism is going

2643
02:38:06,720 --> 02:38:09,880
to work and we're all as
Protestants, we're all going to

2644
02:38:09,880 --> 02:38:12,800
get along in the Christian
nationalist utopia.

2645
02:38:13,640 --> 02:38:17,440
And for proof of that, he says,
well, you can see, you know, in

2646
02:38:17,440 --> 02:38:22,320
the early in the early days of
America, in the in the Puritans

2647
02:38:22,320 --> 02:38:24,800
days, in The Pioneers times, we
started getting along.

2648
02:38:24,800 --> 02:38:27,680
All of a sudden we stopped
killing each other.

2649
02:38:29,920 --> 02:38:33,240
Therefore, we can throw out the
thing that caused us to stop

2650
02:38:33,240 --> 02:38:35,800
killing each other, and we won't
kill each other again.

2651
02:38:38,720 --> 02:38:42,160
That's not true, though.
Of course it's not true.

2652
02:38:43,240 --> 02:38:48,520
It was it was true once once
they got to America, but that

2653
02:38:48,520 --> 02:38:51,960
was only true because they had
they got had a written law that

2654
02:38:51,960 --> 02:38:54,800
said you can't do that right.
It wasn't working.

2655
02:38:55,320 --> 02:38:56,760
They.
Were separated.

2656
02:38:56,840 --> 02:38:59,680
They were separated.
They were separate colonies.

2657
02:38:59,680 --> 02:39:01,920
They weren't living right next
door to each other trying to

2658
02:39:01,920 --> 02:39:04,840
share houses.
And let's not forget the Church

2659
02:39:04,840 --> 02:39:06,760
of England was a Protestant
church.

2660
02:39:07,880 --> 02:39:10,240
Yeah.
And they were killing other

2661
02:39:10,240 --> 02:39:14,040
Protestants.
So don't pretend like there was

2662
02:39:14,040 --> 02:39:16,880
just this magical moment where
you're all like, gosh, you're

2663
02:39:16,880 --> 02:39:19,440
just like me.
No, that didn't happen.

2664
02:39:19,440 --> 02:39:24,800
It didn't happen until a people
who'd been persecuted, some of

2665
02:39:24,800 --> 02:39:29,280
them killed, came to America and
went, yeah, that crap behind us

2666
02:39:29,280 --> 02:39:32,320
that sucked.
So let's go ahead and let's not

2667
02:39:32,320 --> 02:39:35,040
do that again.
That's the.

2668
02:39:35,040 --> 02:39:38,320
Difference.
That's the difference.

2669
02:39:38,400 --> 02:39:42,120
The reason you could get along
in America was because somebody

2670
02:39:42,120 --> 02:39:46,840
had the guts to sit down and
write it out.

2671
02:39:46,840 --> 02:39:50,280
Like, don't kill your neighbor
over religious disagreements.

2672
02:39:51,080 --> 02:39:54,240
That was the difference.
They had nothing.

2673
02:39:54,280 --> 02:39:58,520
To do throw that away.
If we throw that away, even the

2674
02:39:58,520 --> 02:40:00,240
Protestants aren't going to get
along.

2675
02:40:01,080 --> 02:40:03,360
Yes, they're going to start
killing each other again.

2676
02:40:04,320 --> 02:40:07,280
Yes.
Back to the 100 and us and

2677
02:40:07,280 --> 02:40:11,960
everybody, right?
Yeah, because ultimately,

2678
02:40:12,080 --> 02:40:17,600
sticking the name Christian in
front of an idea does not make

2679
02:40:17,600 --> 02:40:21,680
it Christ's, right?
Oh, 100%.

2680
02:40:22,120 --> 02:40:23,560
Great, great.
Line.

2681
02:40:24,440 --> 02:40:30,160
And so, yeah, I guess that's
really, that's just about it.

2682
02:40:33,760 --> 02:40:38,440
Again, this is very, it's a very
liberal idea in the sense that

2683
02:40:42,120 --> 02:40:47,440
to believe that we have evolved,
Christianity has evolved, we

2684
02:40:47,440 --> 02:40:49,280
aren't the same people our
fathers were.

2685
02:40:50,280 --> 02:40:55,560
If we had the power, if I was,
if I was the Pope, if I was the

2686
02:40:55,560 --> 02:41:02,760
emperor, if I was the governor
and I had that power and we

2687
02:41:02,760 --> 02:41:06,400
didn't have to respect people we
could kill people for for

2688
02:41:06,400 --> 02:41:11,560
worshipping other gods on our
soil, that we wouldn't devolve

2689
02:41:11,560 --> 02:41:14,920
into a bloodbath is asinine.
Yeah.

2690
02:41:14,920 --> 02:41:18,440
You believe in a. 100% you
believe in more levels, you

2691
02:41:18,440 --> 02:41:19,680
don't.
Believe in Christ, in the

2692
02:41:19,680 --> 02:41:22,480
gospel, we don't, you don't
believe we're fallen and we need

2693
02:41:22,480 --> 02:41:25,680
an atonement.
You believe that we are evolving

2694
02:41:25,680 --> 02:41:28,880
beings and we've evolved past
that barbarism.

2695
02:41:28,880 --> 02:41:32,440
And if we had tyrannical
authority, we wouldn't abuse it.

2696
02:41:33,320 --> 02:41:37,200
I I mean it goes back to the to
the whole priesthood issue.

2697
02:41:39,720 --> 02:41:44,240
Right.
Christ tells us yes, how to

2698
02:41:44,240 --> 02:41:48,160
exercise authority properly
100%.

2699
02:41:48,160 --> 02:41:51,320
There is no Christian
nationalism in how we're to

2700
02:41:51,320 --> 02:42:00,360
exercise our priesthood. 100%,
100% You want to know how else I

2701
02:42:00,360 --> 02:42:02,560
know they kill each other
because they couldn't stand the

2702
02:42:02,560 --> 02:42:04,240
thought of Joseph Smith being
alive.

2703
02:42:07,280 --> 02:42:11,960
Proof is in the pudding.
Yeah. 100% all right.

2704
02:42:11,960 --> 02:42:14,360
Can you take?
Are you done sharing now bro?

2705
02:42:15,400 --> 02:42:17,120
I got one last funny thing to
share.

2706
02:42:17,200 --> 02:42:20,160
This is funny, OK, Yep, this is
from that same thing.

2707
02:42:20,160 --> 02:42:22,720
This is Joel Weapon from the
same documentary.

2708
02:42:22,760 --> 02:42:24,200
And I just thought this was
hilarious.

2709
02:42:24,200 --> 02:42:25,400
I just thought you want to see
it.

2710
02:42:28,040 --> 02:42:35,640
Oh, it's muted.
Gay, fake, and gay to be more

2711
02:42:35,640 --> 02:42:39,640
precise.
Christianity is a feminized

2712
02:42:39,640 --> 02:42:42,680
religion.
What do you see as the greatest

2713
02:42:42,800 --> 02:42:48,160
threat to Christian nationalism
as it's as it's trying to make

2714
02:42:48,160 --> 02:42:49,880
its roots?
Christians.

2715
02:42:50,720 --> 02:42:52,800
Christians.
Christians are the greatest

2716
02:42:52,800 --> 02:42:56,400
threat to Christian nationalism.
I think he's being honest,

2717
02:42:56,400 --> 02:43:00,080
right?
Christians and Mormons and

2718
02:43:00,720 --> 02:43:03,160
everybody.
Pretty much anybody, even the

2719
02:43:03,160 --> 02:43:05,160
atheists.
Even the atheists.

2720
02:43:05,160 --> 02:43:09,760
But yes, Christians, actual
Christians, are the enemy of

2721
02:43:09,760 --> 02:43:12,920
Christian nationalism.
But here's here's his opinion of

2722
02:43:12,920 --> 02:43:16,160
Christians.
How so?

2723
02:43:16,640 --> 02:43:17,960
How so?
Christians are gay.

2724
02:43:19,120 --> 02:43:23,160
Christians are gay.
To be more precise, Christianity

2725
02:43:23,360 --> 02:43:27,200
is a feminized religion.
Oh, OK.

2726
02:43:28,600 --> 02:43:31,480
Wow.
Wow, these guys aren't going to

2727
02:43:31,480 --> 02:43:34,760
start killing themselves, right?
Like if this guy was in charge

2728
02:43:34,760 --> 02:43:37,400
he wouldn't start killing other
Christians, right?

2729
02:43:40,040 --> 02:43:44,960
Just he's got clearly immense
respect for his his brothers in

2730
02:43:44,960 --> 02:43:48,240
Christ.
No, no, I don't think he does.

2731
02:43:48,920 --> 02:43:51,040
You don't think so?
No.

2732
02:43:52,120 --> 02:43:56,960
Yeah, so to sum up, this is the
Ring of Power, right?

2733
02:43:58,880 --> 02:44:06,280
The Lord of the Rings token, The
Ring of power, this is the

2734
02:44:06,960 --> 02:44:09,560
potential for tyranny.
And you know, and throughout

2735
02:44:09,560 --> 02:44:12,440
America, you know, George
Washington turned that down.

2736
02:44:12,480 --> 02:44:18,160
He threw that ring into the
fiery pits so that we did, we

2737
02:44:18,160 --> 02:44:21,760
could be a nation that we're
going to self rule.

2738
02:44:21,760 --> 02:44:23,880
We're going to take
responsibility for ourselves.

2739
02:44:24,480 --> 02:44:27,840
And all of the problems that
Christian nationalism claims

2740
02:44:27,840 --> 02:44:30,200
it's going to solve, we can
solve.

2741
02:44:31,320 --> 02:44:35,760
If you don't want the schools
indoctrinating your children and

2742
02:44:35,880 --> 02:44:41,480
LGBTQ cultism, you can
homeschool your children.

2743
02:44:44,360 --> 02:44:50,000
This is an option, right?
If you don't want, if you don't

2744
02:44:50,000 --> 02:44:55,400
want abortion to be going on in
this country, you can stand up

2745
02:44:55,400 --> 02:44:59,640
and demand that your states
because this has been, this has

2746
02:44:59,640 --> 02:45:03,520
never been easier, right?
Roe versus Wade got overturned.

2747
02:45:05,720 --> 02:45:09,280
That would almost give credence
to the post millennial argument.

2748
02:45:09,280 --> 02:45:11,720
Maybe we can get there.
Maybe we are going to get there.

2749
02:45:12,320 --> 02:45:14,440
And yet.
And yet, what states have

2750
02:45:14,480 --> 02:45:18,400
successfully executed a ban on
abortion?

2751
02:45:19,920 --> 02:45:21,960
None.
They all, they all jumped on it.

2752
02:45:22,080 --> 02:45:24,960
Well, not they'd all just a few,
a few of our of the blue states

2753
02:45:24,960 --> 02:45:26,720
jumped on it, right?
And they all and they all fell

2754
02:45:26,720 --> 02:45:30,080
apart.
We're being sabotaged.

2755
02:45:31,120 --> 02:45:34,120
We're deliberately being
sabotaged, in my opinion.

2756
02:45:34,120 --> 02:45:40,920
I I think that the the powers
that be think that Christians

2757
02:45:40,920 --> 02:45:44,880
are a bunch of fools.
We're a bunch of idiots and they

2758
02:45:44,880 --> 02:45:47,280
can dangle this idea of
Christian nationalism in front

2759
02:45:47,280 --> 02:45:53,520
of us to provoke us into
crossing lines and destroying

2760
02:45:53,520 --> 02:45:57,560
ourselves.
And it it doesn't have to be

2761
02:45:57,560 --> 02:46:00,160
that way.
All of these problems we're

2762
02:46:00,160 --> 02:46:03,280
seeing can be resolved through
other means.

2763
02:46:03,280 --> 02:46:06,160
We don't have to throw out the
1st Amendment to end abortion.

2764
02:46:06,160 --> 02:46:08,600
We don't have to throw out the
1st Amendment to stop

2765
02:46:09,440 --> 02:46:13,400
transgender madness.
We don't have to throw, just

2766
02:46:13,400 --> 02:46:15,680
take your pick, right?
We don't need to throw out the

2767
02:46:15,760 --> 02:46:18,960
the 1st Amendment to to fix the
economy.

2768
02:46:20,480 --> 02:46:23,800
All of these things that are
piling on it and are so

2769
02:46:23,800 --> 02:46:27,320
burdensome.
These you're these Christian

2770
02:46:27,320 --> 02:46:33,920
nationalists are are are useful
idiots. 100%.

2771
02:46:34,560 --> 02:46:40,200
And they're just, they're trying
to take us down.

2772
02:46:40,200 --> 02:46:43,400
They're trying, trying to take,
take down Christianity and, and

2773
02:46:43,400 --> 02:46:47,080
our ability to actually fight
back and resist the tyranny.

2774
02:46:48,400 --> 02:46:51,320
This is not the way we can be
involved in politics.

2775
02:46:51,320 --> 02:46:54,720
We can get involved in our
schools, we can start voting for

2776
02:46:54,720 --> 02:46:58,000
better people.
And we can do all of that

2777
02:46:58,000 --> 02:47:04,000
without Christian nationalism
because this goes to a very,

2778
02:47:04,000 --> 02:47:07,640
very dark place.
And even again, even if we don't

2779
02:47:07,880 --> 02:47:16,080
end up in this Christian
nationalist utopian hellhole, in

2780
02:47:16,080 --> 02:47:20,480
my opinion, at least if we're
following Deuteronomy class as

2781
02:47:20,480 --> 02:47:22,280
explicitly as they're talking
about, right?

2782
02:47:23,720 --> 02:47:27,360
Even if we don't end up there,
we are weakening ourselves.

2783
02:47:27,360 --> 02:47:30,080
And we're, we're, we're
distracting ourselves from the

2784
02:47:30,080 --> 02:47:34,680
things we could be doing, even
from a purely clear, obvious

2785
02:47:34,720 --> 02:47:38,080
direction of, well, how about we
preach the gospel of Christ to

2786
02:47:38,080 --> 02:47:43,560
people to, to convince them.
Instead of focusing on trying to

2787
02:47:43,560 --> 02:47:46,040
get Christians to be Christian
nationalists, how about we focus

2788
02:47:46,040 --> 02:47:48,360
on getting non Christians to
become Christians?

2789
02:47:49,400 --> 02:47:54,000
100% that's that is where where
we need to be.

2790
02:47:55,200 --> 02:47:58,960
Couldn't agree with you more.
So yeah, I guess I said my piece

2791
02:47:58,960 --> 02:48:03,160
on the subject.
So I got AI, got a couple things

2792
02:48:03,160 --> 02:48:07,360
here.
First and foremost, if you're a

2793
02:48:07,360 --> 02:48:09,800
Mormon and you're flirting with
this, just stop.

2794
02:48:10,280 --> 02:48:16,360
You don't fit your your best
case scenario if you were to

2795
02:48:16,360 --> 02:48:20,440
line up and this stuff was even
remotely successful, your best

2796
02:48:20,440 --> 02:48:23,040
case scenario is you're in a
useful idiot until they're done

2797
02:48:23,040 --> 02:48:25,720
with you and then they'll turn
on you.

2798
02:48:26,000 --> 02:48:29,240
That's it.
That's that's the hope that you

2799
02:48:29,240 --> 02:48:33,520
will have there.
Zion is not the same thing as a

2800
02:48:34,040 --> 02:48:38,000
Christian nationalist America.
That's been proven here tonight,

2801
02:48:38,040 --> 02:48:40,400
right?
The words of Joseph Smith on the

2802
02:48:40,400 --> 02:48:43,760
matter, the words of Brigham
Young on the matter do not match

2803
02:48:43,760 --> 02:48:45,720
with the Christian nationalists
have to say on it.

2804
02:48:47,760 --> 02:48:51,560
If you sign up for this, whether
you are a Christian or a Mormon,

2805
02:48:52,760 --> 02:48:57,720
at some point you will discredit
yourself in the public square.

2806
02:48:58,800 --> 02:49:03,240
You won't be ostracized.
You will just relegate yourself,

2807
02:49:05,640 --> 02:49:08,280
quite frankly, the dust men of
history, and any good thing you

2808
02:49:08,280 --> 02:49:11,640
have to say will fall on deaf
ears because everyone's going to

2809
02:49:11,640 --> 02:49:13,360
remember you wind up for this
crap.

2810
02:49:14,360 --> 02:49:19,000
It's simple as that.
If you really want to make a

2811
02:49:19,000 --> 02:49:22,360
change, Justin's laid out some
really good ideas for you.

2812
02:49:23,320 --> 02:49:27,400
Fix your eyes firmly upon Zion,
as Joseph Smith and Brigham

2813
02:49:27,400 --> 02:49:30,600
Young outlined it, and work
towards that.

2814
02:49:31,320 --> 02:49:37,280
Don't work towards somebody
else's false utopia.

2815
02:49:37,800 --> 02:49:43,480
Go towards the one God gave you.
Now, I've talked to Justin about

2816
02:49:43,480 --> 02:49:49,120
this already.
When I went back east this fall,

2817
02:49:50,000 --> 02:49:54,160
I didn't realize what all was
going to happen back there.

2818
02:49:59,000 --> 02:50:04,480
And I told you when I did that
little episode from that hotel

2819
02:50:04,480 --> 02:50:09,440
room in Maine that I'm going to
keep talking about Mormonism.

2820
02:50:09,840 --> 02:50:16,200
It's, it's in my blood.
I, I've got great things lined

2821
02:50:16,200 --> 02:50:17,840
up for next year.
We're going to do a series on

2822
02:50:17,840 --> 02:50:19,880
the armor of God.
We're going to do a series on

2823
02:50:19,880 --> 02:50:22,840
the unpublished revelations.
I got some stuff cooking.

2824
02:50:23,520 --> 02:50:26,000
And so we're already off and
running in that direction.

2825
02:50:27,160 --> 02:50:29,160
But there was more that had to
be done.

2826
02:50:31,120 --> 02:50:33,800
I think I've said it on this
show a couple of times, but I'm

2827
02:50:33,800 --> 02:50:36,160
going to say it again because I
think it's worth repeating,

2828
02:50:36,160 --> 02:50:39,680
especially in this conversation
that we've just had.

2829
02:50:41,720 --> 02:50:44,560
As the Law of Moses was to the
higher law.

2830
02:50:45,880 --> 02:50:49,280
I do believe the US Constitution
is to to Zion.

2831
02:50:50,080 --> 02:50:54,480
I just see too much Zion in the
Constitution and too much

2832
02:50:54,480 --> 02:50:58,920
Constitution and in Zion as
Joseph Smith and Brigham Young

2833
02:50:58,920 --> 02:51:01,840
waited out.
But that means we got to get

2834
02:51:01,840 --> 02:51:03,760
back to knowing it.
We got to get back to

2835
02:51:03,760 --> 02:51:07,480
understanding it, and we can't
just take a cursory look and

2836
02:51:07,480 --> 02:51:15,120
think it's enough.
So with that starting on, let me

2837
02:51:15,120 --> 02:51:21,520
make sure I get the date right.
Starting on Monday, January

2838
02:51:21,520 --> 02:51:30,800
12th, 2026, 7:00 PM Central, I'm
going to start putting on a

2839
02:51:30,800 --> 02:51:37,520
class through the the the Mormon
legacy ministries on this.

2840
02:51:39,280 --> 02:51:47,120
This book single handedly taught
me civics and U.S. history and

2841
02:51:47,120 --> 02:51:49,960
the principles of the
constitution in a way no other

2842
02:51:49,960 --> 02:51:52,320
book has.
It was written by Royal, not

2843
02:51:52,320 --> 02:51:54,320
Royal Skousen.
Excuse me, Cleon Skousen.

2844
02:51:56,280 --> 02:52:00,480
And it is such a good text when
it comes to civics and

2845
02:52:00,480 --> 02:52:03,560
understanding the Constitution
and the principles of liberty

2846
02:52:03,560 --> 02:52:08,080
that were laid out to us, gifted
to us by God Almighty through

2847
02:52:08,080 --> 02:52:12,400
some people who went through
some horrific crap that Ronald

2848
02:52:12,400 --> 02:52:14,840
Reagan said.
I want this in every high

2849
02:52:14,840 --> 02:52:20,320
school.
So starting that day, once a

2850
02:52:20,320 --> 02:52:25,080
week, we're going to go through
this, this book, and it's going

2851
02:52:25,080 --> 02:52:27,720
to be a lengthy class.
It's going to be about 28 weeks

2852
02:52:27,720 --> 02:52:30,640
long.
There's 28 chapters in here.

2853
02:52:30,640 --> 02:52:36,520
And quite frankly, trying to put
2 chapters in one week just

2854
02:52:36,560 --> 02:52:40,120
isn't going to work.
It's it's formatted to have a

2855
02:52:40,120 --> 02:52:42,520
discussion with, not me just
lecturing.

2856
02:52:45,480 --> 02:52:47,160
And this is available to
everybody.

2857
02:52:47,600 --> 02:52:52,440
There's no charge to this.
I make no money off of this.

2858
02:52:52,720 --> 02:52:57,640
This is just show up and, and
get ready to participate and,

2859
02:52:58,080 --> 02:53:02,640
and learn and enjoy this.
So that again, that is Monday,

2860
02:53:02,800 --> 02:53:07,760
January 12th, 7:00 PM Central.
We're going to kick that off

2861
02:53:07,800 --> 02:53:09,760
now.
You will need to get a copy of

2862
02:53:09,760 --> 02:53:13,560
the book one way or another.
You can get this book through

2863
02:53:13,640 --> 02:53:17,640
the the National Center for
Constitutional Studies.

2864
02:53:17,720 --> 02:53:20,720
They're up there in Idaho.
Just give them a call and they

2865
02:53:20,720 --> 02:53:22,800
can get you a copy of the book
and get off Amazon.

2866
02:53:22,800 --> 02:53:24,960
You can get an audio version off
of Audible.

2867
02:53:25,400 --> 02:53:31,840
But one way or another, get the
book and then come hang out with

2868
02:53:31,840 --> 02:53:35,080
me for a couple hours, you know,
an hour, hour and a half.

2869
02:53:35,240 --> 02:53:37,560
Monday nights.
Bring your kids.

2870
02:53:37,600 --> 02:53:41,440
If you got 12 year old kids,
plant their butts right there.

2871
02:53:41,440 --> 02:53:45,640
And I will try to make it as
entertaining and as fun, yet as

2872
02:53:45,640 --> 02:53:49,560
informative as I possibly can.
I feel this to my core.

2873
02:53:49,920 --> 02:53:52,640
I think the answer to a lot of
these problems we're facing in

2874
02:53:52,640 --> 02:53:56,920
society now is just learning.
And if you want to scare

2875
02:53:56,920 --> 02:54:00,040
yourself, just do a search of
what high schools in America are

2876
02:54:00,040 --> 02:54:02,640
teaching civics.
That should be enough to make

2877
02:54:02,640 --> 02:54:05,920
your blood blood run cold.
And that's not by mistake.

2878
02:54:06,200 --> 02:54:10,360
That is so that the powers that
be can move things around

2879
02:54:10,360 --> 02:54:16,640
without you knowing about it.
So again, January 12th, Monday,

2880
02:54:17,040 --> 02:54:21,080
7:00 PM Central, the 5000 year
leap.

2881
02:54:21,080 --> 02:54:24,880
We'll go through it cover to
cover the reading you'll have to

2882
02:54:24,880 --> 02:54:27,240
do on your own at home.
We'll, we'll pick out certain

2883
02:54:27,240 --> 02:54:30,240
sections, but we're going to
read it and then we're going to

2884
02:54:30,240 --> 02:54:33,880
have a discussion about it and
all are welcome.

2885
02:54:33,880 --> 02:54:37,240
There's no limit, age limit
really.

2886
02:54:37,240 --> 02:54:39,360
A kid as young as 12 can get
this book.

2887
02:54:39,800 --> 02:54:43,560
And so that's, that's pretty
much all I have to say on this.

2888
02:54:43,560 --> 02:54:45,520
I feel like we've done a really
good job here.

2889
02:54:45,520 --> 02:54:50,040
Justin's done an excellent job
of showing where the fallacies

2890
02:54:50,040 --> 02:54:52,560
are and why this does not fit in
Mormonism.

2891
02:54:53,280 --> 02:54:57,360
Stay as far away from it as you
can if you're a Mormon because

2892
02:54:57,360 --> 02:54:58,880
nothing good is going to come
out of it.

2893
02:54:59,240 --> 02:55:03,600
We have our own work to do.
We're supposed to go go forward

2894
02:55:03,600 --> 02:55:07,640
independently.
So let's get back to that and

2895
02:55:07,640 --> 02:55:10,080
let's stop worrying about what
the Christian nationalists are

2896
02:55:10,080 --> 02:55:12,840
going to be doing.
Let's show a better way.

2897
02:55:12,920 --> 02:55:16,720
Let's point everybody towards
Christ in his Zion and leave the

2898
02:55:16,720 --> 02:55:22,360
violence and the unequal
treatment of our brothers and

2899
02:55:22,360 --> 02:55:25,640
sisters of someone else.
Justin, anything else you want

2900
02:55:25,640 --> 02:55:30,080
to say before we wrap this up?
We'll have the link to the

2901
02:55:30,360 --> 02:55:33,400
registration for the for the
class on the Mormon Legacy

2902
02:55:33,600 --> 02:55:36,040
Ministries website,
mormonlegacy.org.

2903
02:55:37,240 --> 02:55:38,800
Perfect.
Awesome.

2904
02:55:38,800 --> 02:55:42,360
Well, man, as always, great
conversation, good stuff.

2905
02:55:42,360 --> 02:55:43,600
Hang around for 5 minutes, all
right?

2906
02:55:44,400 --> 02:55:45,640
OK.
All right.

2907
02:55:45,640 --> 02:56:19,200
Bye everybody.
You're listening to the Mormon

2908
02:56:19,200 --> 02:56:20,600
Renegade podcast.