The 5,000 Year Leap Discussion Group #1

0:00 Hey everybody, if you remember a few months back I mentioned that we were going to be starting a discussion group on the book The 5000 Year Leap. Before I go into all the details here, I want to tell you what the books about. The book goes into the principles behind our founding documents like the Declaration of Independence, the Constitution, the Bill of Rights, and it really illuminates and and brings those principles to life. It was written by Kleon Skousen some number of years back, but it's still a very pertinent book to this day. If you want to understand what the original plan was for America. Now we've started holding the discussion groups. In fact, it just last night on Monday, we finished up the the 5th discussion.

0:42 Now it was suggested to me that maybe I go ahead and I post these on the podcast. And so with the help of another gentleman, we went ahead and we've cleaned it all up. It's and we're going to start loading those today. Now we've done 5 to this point. My plan is, is I'm going to load the 1st 4 today all the way through Friday and you'll be able to find those and just be able to listen to them and get a feel for what it's all about. Now if you decide you want to join the the discussion group live, I've tried to make that easy for you. I put a link to the Zoom discussion group that we hold every Monday night at 7:00 PM Central. In conjunction with that, I've also uploaded the link and all the episode notes for, for kind of this discussion group where you can join on that Telegram group and kind of join in some, some extracurricular discussion if you'd like throughout the week.

1:43 You'll also be able to find the slides I use for my presentations and that sort of thing there. Now this in no way effects anything I'm doing on Saturday. You're you'll still be able to get the the normal podcast as it always is on Saturday. This is just something extra that'll go till May for you. So again, I hope you guys enjoy these things. If you wish to join the discussion group in the Telegram group, you can find those links and all the discussion group episode show notes. Anyway, I hope you enjoy this if you decide to join the discussion group. I look forward to seeing you there again. That's every Monday night, 7:00 PM Central. Thanks everybody. Bye. First off, thanks for everyone for, for just showing up here. I, I really do appreciate it tonight. You know what, what we'll start with a prayer here and then we'll kind of roll into going over the syllabus a little bit and just kind of looking at, at the overall general format of, of what we're going to be doing here on this discussion group. And we'll go from there.

2:45 So, Taylor, would you mind coming off mute and giving us an opening prayer, please? You bet I'm discussing the kids. So all right, ready, our Father in heaven, we come before thee this night and gratitude for our blessings and freedoms and the principles that have brought us such peace and prosperity. We're grateful for this opportunity to study them and pray for thy Spirit to be with us. Please bless our Teacher and all of us listening that we can all be edified and rejoice together and come away with greater faith in Thee and thy plan and purposes for us and with greater courage to face the the challenges that our world is is encountering and experiencing. We pray for those that are sick and in need and please bless those that are mourning that they can be comforted. And we love thee very much.

3:49 And again thank Thee for all thou has given us and acknowledge thy hand in all things in the name of thy Son Jesus Christ, Amen. And then thanks, Taylor. So, you know, gosh, I would start with me as an introduction, but I think everyone probably pretty much knows me here by now anyway, but I'll do it anyway. My name is Dave Sanders. I, I live out here in Missouri, kind of down by Stockton. I, I, I've been studying the, the Constitution and the principles of that that go along with it for well over 20 years now, I think. I think when I first got turned on to all this, it was in 2004.

4:34 And so I've spent a lot of time looking at this. In fact, it wasn't just enough for me to read about it. I got to to this place with with this sort of material really by of all things, a kind of a silly football game. I love football. I think that's pretty well established here by now as well. And I had a buddy and he was a huge Philadelphia Eagles fan and I'm I'm a huge Green Bay fan. And they were playing the game in Philly. And he said, you want to go catch up Monday night game this next year. And I'm like, yeah, I think that'd be great. And so we went out there and and we went out a couple days early and the thought was we just kind of see the sites there in Philadelphia and get a feel for for what it kind of had to offer.

5:26 Right. To be honest with you, when I first went out there, I was way more excited about going to Gino's and getting a cheese steak than I ever was about any of the history or anything else. Why I was always a fan of history. It was more from kind of Western sieve angle. So going back to, you know, the Hellenistic models that were presented through, through the Greco Roman tradition. And when I got out there to Philadelphia, I remember I walked into Independence Hall and when I walked into Independence Hall, every hair on my arm stood up and I really felt the spirit there. And it was like, hey, pay attention. You know, there, there's something you should see here.

6:09 And so I went back home and which was Idaho at that time, and just got my hands on, on anything I could get on the Constitution. And I mean, I went, I started off by reading some books by people who interpreted the Constitution. And I thought, now this doesn't feel right. This doesn't sit right. So then I went back to primary sources and I started looking at things like Madison's notes and common sense and, and, and the, the, The Federalist Papers, just just to name a few to get a better idea of what was being thought about. Now this is 2004. This is three years after 911.

6:51 And why I discovered at that point was, wow, we're doing some stuff here that, that we shouldn't be doing. And so it, it really caused me to, to go deeper. And like I said, now I've been studying on these things in one form or another for, for, for over 20 years. Doesn't mean I know everything. I'm certain I can learn a lot from everybody else here. I'm I definitely think you guys have a lot to offer and I look forward to, to hearing from you. So with that, let's just kind of go around here real quick and just introduce yourself, tell us a little, just a little bit about yourself and then we'll kind of roll into to some more stuff here. We're probably not going to cover the book a whole bunch tonight.

7:35 We we will cover kind of the class structure, how this is going to flow, the schedule, the telegram group, all those other things so that we can come back next week and be ready to rock. So with that, let's go ahead and start with Hiram. Hiram, would you mind coming off mute and just telling us a little bit about yourself? Yeah, I'm just a kid in Springville, UT Just here listen to everybody talk.

8:16 Very cool. Well, it's good to have you here. So and then OOP, Hiram, do you have something else there? I saw you come back off mute. No, I just bumped the button. Oh, sweat. All right, Josh, Eric, sorry for a little introduction. Yep. Just a little introduction for those who don't know you. Yeah, I'm in Lehi, UT, and I love the Constitution. It's inspired, you know, and our scriptures testify to that fact. And so you may not consider it essentially Mormon apocrypha, the Constitution and the probate price like uncanonized scripture basically for us.

9:07 And so it's very, very important to know and understand those principles. And happy to be here. Glad you're doing this, Dave. Thanks. Thanks, Joshua. Justin. There we go. Yeah. I'm Justin Frankham. I've been on Day's podcast a little bit. I'm an independent fundamentalist living out in Missouri and I went to school actually studying this stuff. Got it. My degree from a place called George Wythe College doesn't exist anymore, but my degree was basically focused on constitutional studies. And so this is a, a, a topic that's very near and dear to my heart.

9:53 And I'm here with actually my kids and we've, we've been going through this, all this together because I mean, if you can't convert your family, that's the most important thing, right? So teach, teach and share it with the family 1st. And and then obviously, these are things that I think are valuable to all of us to be able to know and know how to speak about and share in the world we're living it in today. Absolutely. Thanks, Justin. Melissa Erickson. Hi, I'm not really nice background. I'm here with Jude, who's 6, and we want him to learn about the Constitution.

10:47 We live in Lehigh and yeah, it never starts too soon, I don't think. Nope. You cannot and and look, that's the beautiful thing about this book is it's laid out very, very the the books laid out pretty simple. And so that that is the beauty of it. You're even even kids who who are a little younger are going to be able to pick this up pretty quickly. So that's awesome. All right, Micah, I don't think I've ever met you, but I've talked with your brother a whole bunch. Can you come off mute and tell us just a few things about yourself real quick? OK, Looks like he just went ahead and left a left a a chat there, so I'll go ahead and and just read that out here. It was there.

11:37 It's not there anymore. Well, we'll, we'll. Circle back, I can see it. You want me to read it? Yeah, yeah, if you can see it, that'd be great. So he says, hey, I'm Micah, I'm Justin's brother, and I live in Idaho. I'm excited to learn more about the Constitution. Currently listening from work and it's very loud. He works at a mine so probably heavy machinery or something. Awesome. Well, well, thanks for being here, Micah. And then Taylor, you're right there. You're next bro. Sure. I'm here with all of my kids as well. It's we're getting dinner a little bit late so we'll be off camera. But I met Justin.

12:20 We were actually roommates, so both of us were studying at, at a little college down in Cedar City that doesn't exist anymore. But our major, my major was, I'm pretty sure Justin's was too. My major was statesmanship. And so a heavy emphasis on history, primarily American history, but also world history and, and you know, constitutional principles, philosophy, that sort of thing. Kind of a just that that old school it, it was called George Wythe College. George Wythe was the mentor of Thomas Jefferson and many other founders like signers of the declaration and and the Constitution. And, and so the the founder of my college, his vision was to try to to train the future leaders of America with those same principles of liberty and that love. So yeah, glad to be here.

13:16 I we'll hopefully be a little bit more prepared next time, but we'll be downstairs later on, probably come back on camera when we get settled. No sweat. Appreciate it. Thanks, Taylor. Kim, can you tell us just a few things about yourself real quick, Sir? Yeah. Good evening, everyone. You likely heard me getting after my kids earlier, but I have 4 kids. I'm 16 years in the Navy and I have a degree in history. I'm still a student and lover of history and of the constitution, of course, and of Cleon Skousen for that, for that matter. Just excited to, to learn what you have to teach. This is, I'm looking forward to this.

13:57 Thanks, Tim. I, I appreciate that you're here and I look forward to hearing what you have to, to contribute. And that goes for everybody. So thanks. Thanks for being here, man. Vanessa. Hi everyone. My name is Vanessa Aldridge and among among many things, I am a mother of three and a homeschooling mom. And so I'm really excited about this class. I've always been interested in political economy and especially founding of the United States. I just finished reading last week, The Naked Communist, and it was so fascinating. And so I'm really excited to kind of counterpoint to that kind of look at the the principles that are established in the United States, at least the founding with that are more righteous principles and contrast that with, you know, what's going on with communism and where it started. And so anyway, I'm just, I'm really excited to learn and. Yeah.

14:59 Awesome. All right, let's see. I think that's everybody. So hey, I just again want to thank everyone for being here. I really do appreciate it. I want to start off with just like a quick minute and a half video and then we will we'll kind of roll into some other stuff here, but I felt like this would really kind of help set the tone for for what we have here. And so this video that I'm going to share, this is actually from from the pod father himself, Joe Rogan. Now I've cleaned up the language a little bit so that it wasn't so offensive, but I do think that there is some really cool, really cool stuff here. Now, if you let me just stop, share here real quick. Let me look at the the settings here. There we go.

15:57 All right, pay attention to what he has to say at the end. He he he says something that actually will tie into the very title of the book. So and if you guys can't hear this, just let me know. As soon as you give politicians power, any kind of power that didn't exist previously, if they can figure out a way to force you into carrying something that lets you enter businesses or lets you do this or let's businesses open historically, they are not going to give that power up. They find new reasons for you.

16:38 I'll be back. We have to protect those freedoms at all costs, whether you agree with people's choices or not, because it is the foundation that this country was founded on. Freedom. This idea of freedom, there's so many people that think it's frivolous, it's not important, it's not the main thing that we should be focused on, but it is the literal structure that allows this country to be so amazing. Every. Every single country that's ever existed other than the United States up until 1776, every country that has ever existed was run by dictators. All of them. This is the first experiment in self government that actually worked.

17:21 And it created the greatest superpower the world's ever known. It created the greatest cultural machine, the greatest machine of art and creativity and innovation right here. And how did it do that? It did it through freedom and as soon as you you see something, anything that comes along and inhibits your freedom, you should be very cautious about that. You should be very suspicious because anything that comes along that can inhibit your freedom is by definition anti American. Is everybody able to hear that? So, yeah, it sounded good as as I I watched that video and I saw it a few months back. Actually, the part that made me think of this book was where where he says, OK, this you know, what did did allowing man to have freedom do it created the largest engine of innovation.

18:23 Whether that was in the arts, whether that was in scientific advancements, it all came from here. And the question then becomes is why? Why did that happen? And let me, let me switch over here. Let me share my screen with something else here. Bear with me. I'm going to just pull up the the PowerPoint that we're going to use for tonight. This is the original book cover, not the original book cover. This is kind of a newer cover of the book. There was another incarnation of the book that had a cover that I really like and it had a picture of, of both a farmer kind of with, with a field killing his ground and then it had an astronaut landing on the moon.

19:10 And the reason the book's called the 5000 year leap is because basically the the book makes this, this idea that or, or puts forth this idea that for about 5000 years man got along the same way. He always got right, if you had to travel, you went by horse or on foot, maybe a boat. Those were your options. And it was that way for the bulk of human history. And then when America is kind of set loose, if you will, within 200 years, we go from if you want to get around, it's by horse and carriage to we just put a man on the moon. It's a huge step.

19:52 Now certainly I'm not saying that America in itself is the only. The the only factor in that I, I do believe that the that the restoration bursting forth really had something to do with that as well. But nonetheless, I don't think we can discount those founding principles on on on the ability for America to do what it is it it ended up doing. Now does it? If anybody has any questions at all or they have comments, Justin, can I get you to kind of moderate and watch the watch for for the chats and stuff? Yeah, I got the chat.

20:40 Perfect. So if you have a comment at any time, I don't, I, I want this to be a discussion. If you're wanting to just listen to me, that's going to be awfully boring here. So feel free at any time to put your hand up and we can, we can certainly get you in here and, and let you let you talk whenever you would like. So all right, let's go ahead and let's pull up, go over the kind of the course syllabus, if you will. I felt kind of silly saying it that way, but it's kind of what it is. So the intent here, this comes from from the book itself and it says the purpose of the book, The 5000 Year Leap by West Cleon Skousen, is to educate readers about the foundational principles of the United States and how they have shaped American Society.

21:37 Skousen aims to educate readers about the 28 fundamental principles in the that the Founding Fathers used to design the Constitution and create the United States is a unique, prosperous nation. The book emphasizes the importance of sustaining a free Republic, moral citizenry, and virtuous leadership to uphold these principles. It also explores the principles that led to the success of America, including the rule of law, separation of powers, and the importance of limited government. Skousen argues that that sustaining a free Republic demands depends on a moral citizenry and virtuous leadership educated to uphold these principles. The book and course are laid out in such a way to make the principles of the Constitution to be self-evident.

22:22 At the end of the course, the hope is you'll be able, you will be better positioned to not only defend the principles of the Constitution, but also to be able to teach them to others. So that's, that's kind of the thrust of it. My, you know, the hope is, is that when you come out of here, not only are you going to be able to talk to, to other people about these things, but you're also going to be able to spot imposters on the horizon. We live in a time now where I'm, you know, back in the old days, I think, you know, for the most part, not always, but for the most part, you could vote a certain party down the ticket and pretty much know what you were going to get. I don't believe we live in those times anymore. And in, in the times we live in now, we have shifting verbiage, we have shifting meanings of words. And it makes it a little harder.

23:15 And that means we have to be so familiar with good principles that when bad principles come along, we can spot that a mile away. So class structure, we, we live in a very busy time and I value your time and I don't ever want to waste your time. And to help with that, I just want to go over a couple of guidelines here that should help us be to be able to, to maximize the time we have together. You're going to see beneath this, beneath this, this, this intro here, a class schedule for all the lessons.

23:56 I've included this so everybody knows where we're at in the reading. Part of that is if I was thinking of me more than anybody else, if, if I miss a week, I'm completely screwed up for a, for a little while. So I'll kind of go over the stuff down below here in a second. But that's going to be super important to keep keeping everybody on the same page. Classes are going to be held every Monday night from at 7:00 PM Central, 6:00 PM Mountain. We all have lives, we're all busy. So if we could be on time, that would help me wrap this up. I've tried to format this so that we're only spending an hour to an hour and a half on here tops, because look, we got kids, we got jobs, and if you're like me, you're close to 50 and you get tired easier.

24:48 But at any rate, try, I'm going to try to keep these succinct and to the point so that we can, we can just go these this what we're doing on Zoom here. I don't want you to think of it as a class. This is more of a discussion. And with that, that means that we're not going to just sit here together and read the book. We'll we'll certainly read excerpts of the book, but really the reading is going to be up to you. And so that's why that reading list that we'll see here is going to be so important is so that you can, you can come in knowing what it is you want to share and, and you, you've done the reading and you're ready to do it. So there's also going to be down on this, this the reading list here.

25:39 There's also some sets of questions to keep in mind here as you read through it. And that's the kind of going to be the questions that we're going to ask about and talk about because that should invoke some, some pretty good discussion here. Now, don't feel like you're limited to those, those questions on those sheets. Those are simply to get us started. If you have other insights, thoughts, impressions or questions, throw those out. You're not limited there. All right, the discussion group again, we're not going to read it together, but we are going to discuss it. And if look, all of us, I shouldn't say all of us, I think most of us on here are Mormon in one stripe or another.

26:25 And if we remember back to any of the really good classes we had either in elders quorum, Relief Society, Sunday school, all those lessons I would dare to bet had one thing in common and that was there was a lot of robust discussion happening. With that said, when I throw out those questions, feel free. Let's have a discussion about it back and forth. Now, in this arena, I understand that passions can be elevated by some of the stuff we're going to talk about, and that's good. I do not want to discourage that. A lot of truth has been extracted when people get together and have robust conversations.

27:09 However, we can't allow that to turn into something to where we're hating each other every time we jump on here. So one thing that I know helps me is just don't assume that someone you disagree with has bad intentions, right? Sometimes you just disagree and that's OK because that's really an opportunity to learn from somebody else that they see things a little bit different than you do. And so just no personal attacks, nothing like that. And we, we should be good to go. Next. We there's the Telegram group. Now you're going to see that. If you don't see it right now, go to mormonlegacy.org and it's under the class description. You can find that link.

27:52 I strongly recommend you sign up for that for a couple of reasons. First, it's going to be a way where I can communicate with you. If heaven forbid and I don't see this happening, but heaven forbid I have to cancel a class one week or we got to push something back. I can communicate, can communicate with you guys also, because we are going to try to limit ourselves here to about an hour to an hour and a half. I just want to have some place where you guys can discuss some things as well. If if you wanted to throw out a question or a comment or a finding, I think that again, those those kind of free exchange of ideas are healthy and good. Same rules apply.

28:34 You know, let's not call each other names. It's OK to had disagree, but let's just do it as agreeably as possible. And from there we'll we'll just kind of kind of roll into the the the rest of the syllabus here. I would say this last of all, just have fun with this, right? They are serious things we're talking about, but there's I think we should have hope on things. I really do. And I think that that we can have some fun at the same time getting some serious work done. I don't think the two are mutually exclusive. All right, Justin, do we have any any comments or anything before I roll into this next part here? Nope.

29:18 Somebody shared a picture of the old cover though. Oh nice, so. Even once you check it out, it's in the chat. There you go, there you go. I will also be posting my slides on that Telegram group and on that first slide that I showed you, it's got a couple of places where you can go get the book. And so if you don't have a copy, you can get it there. I could have swore it was on Audible. Justin said he looked hard and I trust Justin because frankly, he's way more tech savvy than I am. And he said it wasn't there. And so, but I know you can get it off of Amazon, You can get it from the NCCS and you can get it off of there was one other place too that you can get it. But there's there's three places there that I listed for you that you can just copy those addresses and jump right in. So how things are going to work here in the class, I'll just go down here and give you an example. This will be for for next week.

30:21 And we'll actually be reading pages one through 33. And what it is, is you do your reading. This is laid out so that you guys can kind of have these questions in mind as you do your reading. And we'll pull from some of these as we come in to have our discussion on Monday nights. And so these should be some thought provoking questions, should allow us to have some really good conversations going back and forth. The class is designed or the discussion group is designed to last for up until May 25th. And this first reading assignment will be the biggest reading assignment.

31:04 You have 33 pages. The rest average somewhere between 15 to to 20 pages depending on what chapter we're in. But, and that's covering 2 chapters a week because look, nobody wants to be here for 28 consecutive weeks. So I shrunk it down as much as I could here. But at any rate, it, it should be good if you guys have young kids, you know, kids 12 over or just gauge your kid. If you, if you have a, if you have a six year old you feel like can handle it, it's really mature. Bring them on. I'd love, I'd love to have them here.

31:44 So and, and let them participate too, if, if they desire. So yeah, that's, that's pretty much it. Does anyone have any other questions before we move on here? Comments, rude remarks, anything like that? Perfect. All right, let me share my screen again with you here. Now we're going to get into some fun stuff. So here are the three places, Amazon, Barnes and Noble and this it's called NCCS. It's the National Center for Constitutional Studies and I think they're based out of Milad, Idaho. But anyway, you can get the book anywhere off of these these two websites here.

32:38 So let's just jump right in. And before we go too far, I wanted to talk a little bit about the Mormon view of the Constitution. Most of us here are Mormons. For those who are not, still feel free to participate. I would love to to hear it. I think Jude is drawing. OK looks like found a few pen marks. That was awesome. OK, is the constitution approved by God? I want to read something here. We've all read this 100 times. DNC one O 179 through 80. Therefore it is not right that any man should be in bondage one to another. And for this purpose I have established the Constitution of the of this land by the hands of wise men, who I'm whom I have raised up unto this very purpose and redeemed the land by the shedding of blood.

33:35 So there we got got God's seal of approval on it right. And I like what Joshua said early on here. He said that he viewed the the Constitution like like Mormon Apocrypha almost right. I don't think it's a stretch to say that it might be scripture with a small SI think there's a lot there. Let's go ahead and get some other evidences here. Journal Discourse, volume 6, page 345 and this is from Brigham Young. The Kingdom of God will extend over the earth, and it is written, I will make thine officers peace and thine exactors righteousness. And that comes from Isaiah 6017.

34:23 Is that day ever coming? It is, and the doctrine we preach leads to that point. Even now, the form of government of the United States differs but little from that of the Kingdom of God. So now here's the part where I'm going to throw out a question, and it's on this last sentence here. Even now, the form of government of the United States differs but little from that of the Kingdom of God. Does anyone want to take a stab on why they think that is? I'm going to comment, this is Corey. I think the reason is, is because it allows for liberty and it protects individual rights and supports the idea of and thought in a way that has not really been allowed historically from the governments of the world and the kingdoms of the world.

35:31 We have not allowed people to have a different point of view where they can actually. Express their. Thoughts. And I feel like that's what. Our Heavenly Father wants. For all of us is to grow and learn and even have differing opinions and sometimes the wrong ones. Yet I feel that that's kind of like a fundamental way that we grow is we stumble over our beliefs and our ideas about what things should be. Perfect. Anybody else?

36:12 Justin, you and I talked about this A. Little bit, I think yesterday or today, I can't remember. But you, you had a good thought on this. Do you remember that? I can't actually. OK, no problem. First off, I want to say I think Corey's right. I think it's not an either or. I think it's an and so. We know that that. Agency was so important to our God, to our Heavenly Father, that He said He would never encroach upon that right. Our agency, our will, our conscience, those are ours and those are things. That have to be.

36:58 Willingly given up. And so when we start looking at governments of the world that existed before the United States, right. And, and I'm not necessarily talking about 1791, obviously, I think there were some things going on before that. If we look at what was happening with the Pilgrims and the Pure and the Separatists and some of the folks down in Jamestown, they were already kind of starting to pick up on some of this stuff here and so. I think that. That that is definitely part of it. It was, it was a a document. It was, it was a a coherent set. It was a coherent recognition that man's rights come from God, not from other men.

37:47 And as such, those rights needed to be protected. And so I think that's the one of the reasons. The other thing that I really like, and this is what I remember Justin saying on this, is that the American. Form of government is. Also unique because it was set up to be to designed to be a nation of laws and not men. And what that does is that puts principles above government, right? Basically saying this is what government has to walk up to. It made government subservient to the law and the law was structured in such a way that it was geared to the protection of conscience, free exercise of religion. Go down the the Bill of Rights.

38:34 That's right there. So does anybody else have anything they want to add to that? Yeah, sorry, I forgot about. That that I was thinking about something different, but when we were talking about that idea, I was also kind of wondering if there's might. Not be an. Interesting. Like in the Kingdom of heaven we have we have our God, but our God is only our God as long as he obeys law as well. Otherwise even God would cease to be God, which means our God is being held to a standard. Our governor, even Heavenly Father is, is controlled by a higher power, right? And so I think. There's a infinite.

39:17 Regression potentiality there as well. That shows that this is a kind of an eternal concept and something very unique to the Kingdom of God and also just the United States Constitution and what it was trying to accomplish. Absolutely no good stuff. Anybody else? Dave, I want to add something. Don't you? Well, I just think about the declaration. Of independence and how it says it that all mankind are. Created. Equal and that they're endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights. Among these are Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness or Property.

40:05 In the original version, and the idea that we're created by God is very inherent in the way that they set up the Constitution. So, you know, more Mormon theology says not only that we're created by God, but that we can become gods. How are we to become? Gods if we. Aren't governing ourselves correctly based on correct principles? 100% thank. You, Joni, anybody else? We'll move on to the next quote here again, Brigham Young this time.

40:48 Journal of Discourse, Volume 6, page 342. The Constitution and the laws of the United States resemble A theocracy more closely than any government on the earth, on the earth or that ever has been. I apologize, I got a typo in there. So here Brigham is basically saying, look, this, this is as close to theocracy as we we can get. Now, if we look at what those early men in in Mormonism were trying to do, the church was only part of it, right? They were actually aiming for something higher. They were aiming for the Kingdom, but they also understood that other people's rights were going to have to be protected in this.

41:33 Whether you were Mormon, Methodist, Presbyterian, did not matter. You can go back and you can look in the Journal of Discourses, teachings of Brigham Young, words of Joseph Smith, and you can clearly see that this idea that that Zion was only going to be for Mormons. I think that's a fairly recent incarnation and it you from their writings, it does look like there'd be more there. And so you kind of going back to Joni's point here, it was a place in which they're going to be able to do that. So when Brigham says theocracy, he's kind of hinting towards Zion. And so that keep keep that in mind. Does anyone have anything they want to add on this on to this quote here?

42:17 Anything they have to say or whatnot? All right, let's move on. Now this next one, the Mormon view of the future of the Constitution. So for a while I, I could not wrap my mind around like, does does the constitution come in or, excuse me, does Zion come in? And then the constitution goes kind of go by the wayside, 'cause there's something better. And it, it caused me to do some looking. And here are a few a few of the things about the the the future of the Constitution from a Mormon point of view. Again Brigham Young Journal Discourse, page 317 When the day comes in which the Kingdom of God will bear rule the flags of the United States, the flag of the United States, will proudly flutter unsullied on the Flagstaff of liberty and equal rights, without a spot to sully it, to sully its fair surface.

43:16 The glorious flag of our fathers have bequeathed to us will then be unfurled to the breeze by those who have power to hoist it aloft and defend its sanctity. Again, Brigham Young that. To me was interesting. Right. And part of me. Thinks he's he He. Might be speaking kind of symbolically here. Maybe it's not so much the flag as it is an understanding that these principles that the Constitution lays out are still going to be in effect even when the Kingdom of God comes in. Does anybody have anything they want to add to that?

43:58 That's kind of a juicy, spicy quote there, and I'd love to to hear people's thoughts on that. OK, well, we'll go. Ahead, and we'll move on here. Then another quote, this one coming from Brigham Young. Again, Journal of Discourse, Volume 7, page 15. Will the Constitution be destroyed? No, it will be held inviolate by this people. And as Joseph Smith said, the time will come when the destiny of the nation will hang on upon a single thread. At that critical juncture, this people will step forth and save it from its threatened destruction. I read that and to me it kind of sounded almost like a charge right now.

44:55 I want to be real clear here. Nobody should be getting ready to go and and do anything silly, right? I think that that the way that this will be saved ultimately will be a lot more akin to how the gospel and its fullness was saved rather than, you know, riding horses out of the mountains looking really cool. I just don't think we're there at this time. I think how we save this is, is by being, you know, just preserving these things. I think that's going to be our job here. Has anyone got anything they'd like to add here?

45:37 So if I'll just jump in. And just say, I always looked at these types of quotes and in my mind, I I wasn't separating the concepts of the Constitution from the US government. And it's kind of a similar conflation to like the church and the gospel, you know, or the church and the priesthood, like they these ideas, there's a lot of overlap, but they're very separate. And. Distinct ideas. And that's important to kind of keep in mind. I do not think that Joseph Smith or Brigham Young was prophesying that the Mormons are going to save the United States government. What I do think is it's these principles of the Constitution will be alive and well in the city state of Zion once we get to that point. And we're building that together. But that that doesn't have any.

46:30 This is not like saying that America will never die as a as a nation. You know, the United States will never be destroyed as a nation. But it's these principles. That's what's key. 100% I. I, I couldn't agree with you more there. I think it it's so interesting right as I look as as I continue to look and as I continue to grow and mature in the gospel and and intellectually and other places. I kind of agree with you. I think I think we all had an idea of what this would look like. And as time goes along and I become more mature, I start viewing it a much different way.

47:14 Thanks for that. Taylor. Does anyone else have anything they'd like to add? And don't be afraid to disagree. I think from. When you say it like that. I think it's absolutely a charge in that context because if it's the principles are going to be preserved and then and we see these being abandoned today, then who's going to preserve them if not us 100%? OK, well, if. You thought that was a charge? Wait for this next one. So while we're still on this topic, if you don't mind. Yeah. What I think that we can all agree on is that the Constitution has some capital T truths, and that what we're going to see is a war on truth, and that the charge we have is simply to defend truth. Absolutely.

48:00 That's a great. Way to put it, Tim, I couldn't agree with you more. Anybody else? OK, I was going to say. I think just studying the Constitution, there's just so many amazing principles that we just kind of are. Understanding as. A whole usually the tip of the iceberg, like there's a lot more of the conversations that the the framers of the Constitution and the, you know, signers of the declaration. There were a lot of things that they studied in world history and they argued a lot about each of these different principles that were added into the Constitution.

48:51 And they studied, you know, Deuteronomy. That was what they refer to the most in trying to understand the law and the charge that Moses gave, you know, to the children of Israel, kind of his last little, you know, goodbye speech. And it really. For all of. Us who are striving to create, you know, a Zion community where we're following the principles that Heavenly Father would want for us so that we're kind and thoughtful and that we're also merciful and just kind of balancing that. It's going to take all of us a lot of focus, a lot of prayer, a lot of study to understand the depth of these principles and how they fit in and what is right and wrong so that we can be righteous judges in in Zion, so that we can kind of create and uphold the, the correct principles rather than just doing what our society does.

49:46 Because our judicial system right now is very broken and people's perspectives on what right and wrong is. They have it all backwards now. And and it, I think it's up to us as as. You know, people of the Restoration. Were believers of the restoration to dig deep into this and, and hold tightly to those principles and and do our best to understand them and and kind of create our own standard, if you will, kind of like how Moroni in the Book of Mormon, he created a standard of liberty and he just says, hey here's here's what we're going to stand for for our wives and our children and our religious freedom. We're going to do this.

50:28 This is what the Constitution really what they were trying to give us and how we've kind of perverted their intent. And this is this is really the path that we should have been following, that we're not, that people are criticizing the constitutional principles over that, that we can kind of get it. Right, if you will, as a. Group where we're studying these kind of topics and that's what I think this whole group is so wonderful that you're doing this. Thanks, Corey. I appreciate that. You know him, You, you said something about, you know, just defending truth. And I couldn't agree with you more.

51:12 I'll just tell you about a. Little bit of experience I had this last time I was in Philadelphia back in in September. As I'll be honest. When I left the East Coast, when I was done living out there, I honestly thought I wouldn't be going back out there to to see these things again. I saw them many times while I lived out there and. It kind of surprised me. I remember it very distinctly. It was about a year and a half ago. It was, it was about six months after I moved to Missouri here. And one morning I woke up and I just like, it was so strange. I just rolled out of bed and I just knew I have to go back east.

51:55 I have to see something. I didn't know what I was going to see, but I knew I had to see whatever it is I felt like the Lord wanted me to see. And so we went to. Philadelphia. 1st that's where we flew into and by far Philadelphia is my favorite city back east. I just love the history of it. And I was sitting in Independence Hall and I, I thought it would be like instantaneous, I'd walk in and I just knew what I was supposed to be there for. Didn't go that way. And so I just sat there in that room where where the the founders hammered out both the Declaration of Independence and the the Constitution. And.

52:48 There's the. Only piece. Of furniture in that building that can 100% be certified as original was where Washington SAT and. On the back of. Washing Washington's chair, it's got a sun and it's only half the sun, so you don't know if it's rising or if it's setting. And Franklin makes note of this during during the Constitutional Convention. He says, gentlemen, for these long months I have sat and I have wondered about that chair, if that sun was a rising sun or a setting sun, and wondered if the. Same thing would be. Is true with our nation.

53:29 And I'm kind of paraphrasing here, wondering if if the sun was coming up on the nation or if it was already descending. And at that time he, he said he felt like it was an ascending sun. But as I sat there and I'm, I'm looking at all this history and I'm just kind of enraptured by it. I thought, you know, I'm just going to take out my my phone and I'm just going to read the founding documents. And the first. Place my eyes darted to was we hold these truths to be self-evident harkening back to what you said Tim, about truth and in that moment I had a distinct idea right like a like a sentence and it was to speak truth in a time where where everything is upside down and crazy is an absolute revolutionary act and I think that's important to realize is that we kind. Of do put ourselves.

54:37 In the place of some of those heroes from American history, not because we pick up a gun, but because we're just willing to stand for these truths. And so Tim, I, I really enjoyed what you said there. I appreciate it. So anyone else have anything else they want to add here before we move on to the next slide? Yeah, so if you thought that last one was a. Charge. Wait till you get this one from John Taylor. I I put down Brigham Young, but it is John Taylor that is the correct Journal of Discourse entry. It's 21 volume 21, page 8, And it says when the people shall have torn to shreds the Constitution of the United States, the elders of Israel will be found holding it up to the nations of the earth and proclaiming liberty and equal rights to all men and extending the hand of fellowship to the oppressed of all nations.

55:36 This is part of the program. And as long as we do what is right and fear God, He will help us and stand by us under all circumstances. John Taylor, Journal Discourses, 218I. I read this quote. Years ago and and I need to thank Justin for helping me find it again because I could have swore it was Brigham Young that said it. So I put into this quote probably 100 times and haven't been able to find it. And then again, because Justin's awesome that way, he was able to find it in like 10 minutes. And he's like, well, that's because it's John Taylor. But. Nonetheless. Right, proclaiming liberty and equal rights, that's what the elders during that time are going to be doing. And so I think we have a clear mandate on this, right? Again, never out of force, but being able to make our case to being able to, to talk about these things in a way that is coherent, that can win hearts and minds because I think that's super important.

56:42 And that is because I feel like we are, we are coming into a time now where quite frankly, there's a lot of people that I think are looking for solutions and answers. And unfortunately, I think our youth have been Co opted in such a way that quite frankly they're not seeing any hope anywhere. Just talking to a. Talking to a guy not too long ago who talked about his son, he's like, I'm not going to be able to buy Helm. I'm not going to be able to do any of these things. And as you start looking at some of the people, the people themselves who are involved in some of these more nastier things that are going on, the riots, the civil unrest, they're feeling this the way.

57:39 That we can combat. This is by having a better answer. And look, I'm a guy, even though I'm not great at it, I love tech, I love technology. It's fun. Poke some buttons mate. Until it works or breaks right? However, sometimes the answers don't lie in front of you, they lie in the back. Behind you. There's a. There's a. Principle in land. Surveying called latitudes and departures and basically what it says is the farther you go out even on a small error, the larger that error becomes. So just as an example, if I was to turn, try to turn a 90° angle and I was off by a, you know I was. Off by a minute, say 89.

58:31 Degrees. I'm not going to see it in a foot, right? If I go out on that bearing a foot from my point of origin, I'm not going to see it. I'm probably not going to see much at 100 feet. At 1000 feet, you might start to notice a couple inches, but by the time you're out a couple miles, now all of a sudden you are feet away from your mark. And if you continue to project that if you were going to a far off land, you would completely miss the land you were trying to get to. And so it becomes important that sometimes we have to go back and we have to find our point of origin again and then go forward. And I think I hope that this is what this can do for some folks, is take them back to the point of origin, get their bearings straight and then head on that.

59:27 So that that's really my hope for this whole thing. Does anyone else have anything they'd like to add here? I'd like. To add something. Yeah, so Alex. Jones was all. If anybody knows who Alex Jones? If you don't know how Alex Jones says you must be living under a rock at this point, actually. But Alex Jones was always talking about we got to wake people up. We got to show them the truth, the lies, everything's a lie, the conspiracies, right? He was over the top, but he was always trying to wake people up. But the focus was the lies. And, you know, The funny thing is now, you know, Fast forward 20 years, everyone knows and kind of agrees that the act, you know, the government was kind of making the frogs gay. And maybe, maybe they're lying to us, right? And yet nonetheless, things right now, we're still not good and kind of getting worse, even though people have woken up like Alex Jones wanted.

1:00:25 And I, I think the problem is knowing what's wrong isn't the solution. It's waking people up to what's actually right. If that movement was focused on constitutional principles, I think, you know, our country could be saved. But we still need. That wake up there's. So many people that need to be woken up to understand what the truth is, what, you know, Christian nationals, all these different cults of politics popping up. Candace Owens. I think part of that's happening because as conservatives or as religious people, as believers in the laws of God.

1:01:09 We're not waking people up, you know? We're not awake, and we need to wake people up to these principles and these truths 100. Percent, Yeah, Can I add? Add to that a little bit too, you know, Alex Jones, his whole his website domain was Infowars. He was focused on if we could just inform people. But a lot of times, I mean, you got to have information to come to correct conclusions. That's that's a vital step, but it's, you know, the problems that we're seeing in the United States is not just ignorance.

1:01:51 And when ignorance isn't the problem, education is not the. Solution. Or, you know, spreading the word information is not the solution. And so I think just a very practical way to to consider this class and in this this whole exercise of going through these principles is not just about, you know, feeding the the mind, but it's about, you know, fortifying our hearts. And, you know, it's the morality, not just the information. And who was it, Franklin, that said as they were coming out of the Constitutional Convention? The lady's like, hey, what kind of a government have you have you come to?

1:02:33 And he says a Republic, ma'am, if you can keep it. And John Adams said that this constitution was designed for a moral people and it was wholly inadequate to govern any other. So while these while we are engaging intellectually in these conversations and as we're reading these things, the the goal is to plant a seed deeper than the mind and into the heart to, to to frame. Help us. To guard against, you know, seductive ideas that are immoral, even though it might be somebody with an R by their name or somebody that, you know, says a lot, you know, lip service to the Constitution. You know, it's anybody talks cheap, you know, is it, I think James, it's like don't, don't be just a hearer of the word. Do it.

1:03:24 We have to do it. And just a very direct threat. Like Justin was just throwing out a few names, but even amongst Mormons, there is a growing trend toward nationalism. And those quotes that you just shared from Brigham Young, Joseph Smith, John Taylor are a bulletproof refutation and rejection of any kind of form of Mormon nationalism. No, the Constitution, which is safeguarding freedom of belief, freedom of speech, freedom of thought, That is Mormonism and that's that's Christianity. And if we were to establish a theocracy of like a basically a Mormon dictatorship, that even if it was like all.

1:04:08 Of the Mormon. Laws that we wanted and like all of our dreams came true and and we could outlaw pornography and outlaw caffeine, depending on your branch of Mormonism or whatever. Like, gosh. But you know, even if, even if. Your wildest dreams could, if it was possible to make those all come true, that would be Antichrist. That would be anti Mormon. That's not the principles we're after or that we should be after. And so just as we're as we're considering these, these are some intellectual ideas, but it's about cultivating stronger moral foundations for us, for our kids that, you know, that's that's what I'm trying to emphasize in my home. Absolutely.

1:04:53 I'm glad you brought them. So thanks. Thanks for being here and thanks for that Taylor. Someone else have anything they'd like to add? Anybody. You know, the other thing I was going to say tonight is I, I want everyone to know that if you have. An idea you want to. Share that's not maybe expressly in I encourage you to do that. And the reason I encourage you to do that is something that Washington said. So it was right after the, the constant, I shouldn't say right after, it was right before the 1st vote on the Constitutional Convention.

1:05:42 And Washington gets up. And he says something very interesting. He says, gentlemen, we haven't been employed here these long months in discussing these things. And he said let us. Raise a standard now. To which the wise and noble can repair. The event is in God's hands. And then he he turns and he sits down for the vote. Now what's? Interesting. Is that he's obviously telling us that, hey, it's not perfect yet, right? And certainly we can even see this idea expressed in our founding documents, right, to create a more perfect union, understanding that we're always going to be striving to get a little bit closer to what these things should be. So I don't want anyone feeling like, gosh, I really have an idea, but I don't know where it's at in the Constitution and being afraid to share it because I think there's room here. Vanessa, I see your hand.

1:06:48 Go up. Go ahead and take yourself off Mute. Yeah. I've got a little bit of communism on the brain, but it's very interesting as I've been studying it to see that it's kind of, it's a doctrine of maximum compulsion. Like it only works if we force everybody. And that is obviously that's Satan's plan. You know, you have to force everyone. And, and I find it interesting that one of the absolute goals of the communist movement is to discredit the Founding fathers, to destroy people's faith in moral men and to make us ashamed of our country and to help us to, to destroy the, the, the Constitution and our, the beliefs that we've been set up with. And that's because it is a threat to that idea. So it's very important, I would think to study these things all the more because that's the only way to combat that is to keep, keep them strong and keep them in our minds and, and to, to study them as much as we can.

1:07:58 Absolutely. Thanks Vanessa and and you're. 100%. Correct again. It's important that we're. So familiar with the truth of these things that when an imposter comes along, we can, we can absolutely spot it a mile away and not just get ourselves and our families out of danger, out of harm's way, but be but do that for, for, for others around us in our sphere of influence. One of the things that that absolutely kind of surprised me was was the the the rise of Christian nationalism and how many Mormons were looking at that, especially young men and felt like that that was a good idea.

1:08:47 Now, certainly they have some valid points, right? You know, a large a bunch of what this country was kind of, you know, founded on where were some judeo-christian principles. But there were other things there that added to the genius of the Constitution. But it just goes to show that when things get crazy and, and look, we live in crazy Times Now, right? I think, I think September of last year showed us that, that, that we've kind of entered into a new phase of things. And so it's going to be super important for our kids, sakes, heck, for our sakes, that we don't get swept up in any of those movements that we can be, that we can be governed by principle and that we can we can go forward with that. So, yeah, Vanessa, thanks.

1:09:39 I really do appreciate that. Anybody else anything else they'd like to add? OK, well, if nobody has anything else to add, that's where I wanted to stop tonight. I just wanted to kind of set the table for us and just be able to kind of get get our feet under us. If you don't have the book again, I'll post these slides. You guys can just copy those addresses right in there and and can go go grab a copy of that book again next week. We're going to go pages one through 33.

1:10:20 That will be by far the heaviest amount of reading we do at one time for one class throughout this whole thing. So you get to that. It's all downhill. OK. Last call. I just wanted to say thanks, Dave and thanks. Everyone, I'm looking forward to next week. Thanks, Tim. I appreciate. It. All right. With that, I guess we'll go ahead and we'll, we'll wrap it up here. Corey, would you mind wrapping this up with a closing prayer for US, brother? Totally our dear Father in heaven, we're just grateful entity today just to get together and have some of these conversations because you know, we really do love liberty and we love our religious freedom and the the feeling that the gospel brings to our life and we like to share that with others and preserve the freedoms that we have and we know we we're going to need to know a lot of little details and principles to to be.

1:11:25 Able to really articulate. And stand up for these wonderful principles of the Constitution. So it's really wonderful that we're gathering together to have these conversations and ask thy blessings on all of us here so that our understanding will increase. They will have better answers than we've had before. And. Bless us up. With our individual needs that will feel comforted and directed by the just grateful for the love of thy son and. Just ask for those. Blessings on us in the name of Jesus Christ, Amen. Amen. Thanks, Corey. All right, thanks everybody. And look, if you guys have anybody else who who you think you'd like to that they'd enjoy this, don't don't be bashful about passing around the link.

1:12:14 I think I think this Zoom license will handle either 100 or 200 people, I can't remember, but we got plenty of room. So don't be afraid to to pass this out to people who may may want to hear it as well. So I appreciate everybody being here. I appreciate all the comments that were added and I'm looking already looking forward to next week. Thanks everybody.