Episode #235: Ending Abuse In Mormonism W/Justin Francom

1
00:00:11,300 --> 00:00:15,200
Justin, how's it going?
Dave going pretty good.

2
00:00:16,600 --> 00:00:19,900
Okay, so before we get started,
I want to throw this out here

3
00:00:19,900 --> 00:00:23,900
right now.
This is a heavy heavy topic and

4
00:00:23,900 --> 00:00:25,400
this is geared towards the
listeners.

5
00:00:26,100 --> 00:00:29,300
This is a heavy heavy topic.
This is about abuse.

6
00:00:30,700 --> 00:00:35,000
And so if you normally listen to
this in the car, with your kids,

7
00:00:35,000 --> 00:00:39,700
not that episode.
So I'm going to give you just a

8
00:00:39,700 --> 00:00:45,100
few minutes here for you, to be
able to, you know, Push pause or

9
00:00:45,100 --> 00:00:47,600
do whatever you have to do, but
this definitely isn't for little

10
00:00:47,600 --> 00:00:50,600
years.
Also, we're going to be talking

11
00:00:50,600 --> 00:00:53,000
again, about abuse.
So, there could be some triggers

12
00:00:53,000 --> 00:00:56,300
in here.
But nonetheless.

13
00:00:57,100 --> 00:00:59,500
This is a conversation that has
to be had.

14
00:01:02,000 --> 00:01:06,500
I think all of us who are honest
dealers in fundamentalism, Want

15
00:01:06,500 --> 00:01:09,400
to live.
With happy.

16
00:01:10,700 --> 00:01:16,300
Thriving families and we want
Happy vibrant communities but

17
00:01:16,300 --> 00:01:19,000
that means we got some stuff
that we have to do first.

18
00:01:19,000 --> 00:01:23,900
Now, as we talked about this,
the last thing I want to Witch

19
00:01:23,900 --> 00:01:28,200
Hunt, nothing like that.
But there are some things to

20
00:01:28,200 --> 00:01:31,100
keep a hold of right.
Look, I don't care if it's

21
00:01:31,108 --> 00:01:34,000
Mormonism.
Or protestantism.

22
00:01:34,700 --> 00:01:37,800
Catholicism.
You get enough people together

23
00:01:37,800 --> 00:01:39,600
and there's bound to be some
sort of abuse.

24
00:01:39,600 --> 00:01:42,900
It's part of the human
condition, we don't excuse it.

25
00:01:42,900 --> 00:01:47,100
We don't make make reasons why
it's acceptable.

26
00:01:47,100 --> 00:01:52,300
It's our job just to find it and
kind of root it out. and so now

27
00:01:52,300 --> 00:01:55,800
that I feel like we've kind of
set the table here, Justin, this

28
00:01:55,800 --> 00:02:00,600
was Heavy when when we were
talking This was one, I

29
00:02:00,600 --> 00:02:02,700
understood where we're going to
have to do it, right?

30
00:02:02,700 --> 00:02:04,900
But with you here, I feel like
we can get.

31
00:02:04,900 --> 00:02:06,700
We can definitely get this
pulled off.

32
00:02:09,600 --> 00:02:13,000
All righty.
Yeah, so what, you know?

33
00:02:14,400 --> 00:02:18,800
Why this topic right?
I, I guess, I guess we hear the

34
00:02:18,800 --> 00:02:22,600
horror stories, and we're
thinking how that happened.

35
00:02:22,608 --> 00:02:27,800
How did someone get to the point
where they thought that was I

36
00:02:27,800 --> 00:02:31,000
did this and so I'm really
looking forward to it.

37
00:02:31,000 --> 00:02:34,800
And let's, let's go ahead and
Let's get going.

38
00:02:34,800 --> 00:02:38,400
There's there's not much more I
can say other than here we go.

39
00:02:40,300 --> 00:02:41,300
Yep.
Yep.

40
00:02:41,300 --> 00:02:45,300
All right.
So um I first ended up going

41
00:02:45,300 --> 00:02:50,400
down this rabbit hole. as I was
just kind of perusing, the news

42
00:02:50,400 --> 00:02:55,500
and one of the kind of trending
things recently has been How

43
00:02:55,500 --> 00:02:56,800
safe is the internet for
children?

44
00:02:56,800 --> 00:02:59,700
And this is this is a big topic
that's kind of spilled into

45
00:02:59,700 --> 00:03:02,300
everybody's life in a way
because there's legislation and

46
00:03:02,300 --> 00:03:07,300
stuff coming around.
That is trying to Maybe protect

47
00:03:07,300 --> 00:03:10,800
children through age
verification and, and all of

48
00:03:10,800 --> 00:03:13,300
that.
And You know, I've got my own

49
00:03:13,300 --> 00:03:16,200
concerns and and doubts about
maybe these solution is being

50
00:03:16,208 --> 00:03:20,400
effective and not being overly
intrusive in ways that can be

51
00:03:20,408 --> 00:03:24,900
bad for for all of us.
But nonetheless, it got me going

52
00:03:24,900 --> 00:03:30,000
down a little bit of a rabbit
hole and one of the first

53
00:03:30,000 --> 00:03:32,900
things, I'm not going to spend a
whole lot of time on this but I

54
00:03:32,900 --> 00:03:36,000
think it's important to talk
about One of the first things

55
00:03:36,000 --> 00:03:40,600
was online games for kids.
There's a lot of people haven't

56
00:03:40,600 --> 00:03:43,500
heard, there was a very big
scandal with roll blocks.

57
00:03:44,400 --> 00:03:49,400
Which is kind of like a, it's an
online Minecraft type game where

58
00:03:49,400 --> 00:03:52,800
kids can design their own games
for the play online with their

59
00:03:52,800 --> 00:03:56,700
friends chat.
And I mean, I get why it's

60
00:03:56,700 --> 00:03:59,300
popular when I was a kid, I
would have loved that.

61
00:03:59,300 --> 00:04:02,500
That would have that would have
been my life and for a lot of

62
00:04:02,500 --> 00:04:05,500
kids that is their life.
Mm-hmm.

63
00:04:06,800 --> 00:04:11,000
You know, I I saw Sean Ryan
episode about this actually.

64
00:04:11,900 --> 00:04:15,900
And this was like the game where
like most petals are hanging

65
00:04:15,900 --> 00:04:22,500
out, right?
Um, is is right there and the

66
00:04:22,500 --> 00:04:25,200
game itself is fairly innocuous,
right?

67
00:04:25,200 --> 00:04:29,100
It's not a first person shooter
game it's you know nothing

68
00:04:29,100 --> 00:04:33,200
nothing that most parents would
raise an eyebrow out and it's it

69
00:04:33,200 --> 00:04:36,500
you're to your point it was it
was brutal listening to that

70
00:04:36,508 --> 00:04:39,400
episode and hear about what goes
on in their Right.

71
00:04:39,400 --> 00:04:41,000
And that's this is the problem
with the game.

72
00:04:41,000 --> 00:04:45,900
It's it looks innocuous,
innocuous the base game, pretty

73
00:04:45,900 --> 00:04:50,000
much is, but it's got tools so
you can design your own games

74
00:04:50,000 --> 00:04:53,100
within it.
And that's, that's where the

75
00:04:53,108 --> 00:04:54,800
problem starts, because some
kids are like, all right, let's

76
00:04:54,800 --> 00:04:57,700
make a capture the flag game.
All right, that's fun.

77
00:04:57,700 --> 00:05:00,700
Let's make a race car game.
Okay, that's cool.

78
00:05:00,700 --> 00:05:02,300
That's cool.
That you have an online game

79
00:05:02,300 --> 00:05:06,100
that you can design into other
games, right, right.

80
00:05:06,100 --> 00:05:09,800
The problem comes along when
adults come into the game and

81
00:05:09,800 --> 00:05:12,700
they're like, let's create a
bathroom simulator level.

82
00:05:14,400 --> 00:05:19,800
Let's create a cuddle house.
Simulator level let's create a

83
00:05:19,800 --> 00:05:21,600
diddy party.
Simulation level.

84
00:05:21,600 --> 00:05:27,800
Oh and there's nothing
preventing kids from wandering

85
00:05:27,800 --> 00:05:31,900
into these, these these adult
created worlds, with all this

86
00:05:31,900 --> 00:05:35,500
mature content, in fact, The
adults designed them that way.

87
00:05:36,500 --> 00:05:40,900
To attract kids in.
And then they can get in there

88
00:05:40,900 --> 00:05:42,600
and they're, they're chatting.
With the kids.

89
00:05:42,600 --> 00:05:45,500
Sometimes even voice chatting,
they can upload their own

90
00:05:45,500 --> 00:05:49,100
graphics and stuff so you can
have adult material adult

91
00:05:49,100 --> 00:05:53,900
animations and it's it's really
bad and when kids you know their

92
00:05:53,900 --> 00:05:55,100
parents think they're just
playing Roblox.

93
00:05:55,100 --> 00:05:56,600
It's fine.
It's like Minecraft, right?

94
00:05:56,600 --> 00:05:57,900
Right.
Well.

95
00:05:59,200 --> 00:06:01,500
At a certain level.
Yeah, but Minecraft doesn't have

96
00:06:01,500 --> 00:06:04,100
bathroom simulators in it.
Right.

97
00:06:04,100 --> 00:06:09,000
Yeah. where you have kids
playing with adults in bathrooms

98
00:06:09,000 --> 00:06:14,600
and so there's there's been a
there's been a big problem on

99
00:06:14,600 --> 00:06:20,400
Roblox and I started following
some of the victims actually, so

100
00:06:20,400 --> 00:06:23,200
who have who were victimized
themselves in these games, and

101
00:06:23,200 --> 00:06:27,600
kind of blew the whistle on it
and came out, and one of them in

102
00:06:27,600 --> 00:06:31,500
particular now, Was using the
game itself to hunt down, these

103
00:06:31,500 --> 00:06:35,300
predators to try to kind of trap
them and get that information

104
00:06:35,300 --> 00:06:38,300
over the police.
And so I started following some

105
00:06:38,300 --> 00:06:42,400
of these, these new generation
of creators that were exposing

106
00:06:42,400 --> 00:06:45,500
some of this stuff.
And they're coming from a very

107
00:06:45,500 --> 00:06:47,800
different world than I grew up
in, right?

108
00:06:47,800 --> 00:06:51,600
And with very different kind of,
normals and values and something

109
00:06:51,600 --> 00:06:54,900
something really stood out, to
me, was there's a really

110
00:06:54,900 --> 00:07:00,600
interesting connection between
the Predators the children and

111
00:07:00,600 --> 00:07:08,600
freeze.
Which hopefully ideally nobody

112
00:07:08,600 --> 00:07:11,900
needs to free is.
But a furry is, you know, these

113
00:07:11,900 --> 00:07:17,000
are people that like to dress up
as animals and role play that

114
00:07:17,000 --> 00:07:21,900
their animals and You know, it
face value, it seems kind of

115
00:07:21,900 --> 00:07:25,600
innocuous, not innocuous, I mean
like my kids, sometimes will

116
00:07:25,600 --> 00:07:27,800
play games where they pretend
their cats or something, right?

117
00:07:27,800 --> 00:07:33,000
And I think it's fine with kids
but you get adults into this

118
00:07:33,000 --> 00:07:35,000
culture.
Right.

119
00:07:35,000 --> 00:07:38,500
And there were on these really
elaborate costumes and then it

120
00:07:38,500 --> 00:07:42,600
becomes very not safe for work
very well.

121
00:07:42,600 --> 00:07:44,000
Safe for work.
Yeah.

122
00:07:44,000 --> 00:07:46,100
And look.
It's more than just like

123
00:07:47,700 --> 00:07:53,000
Role-playing, right.
Like They say that that is their

124
00:07:53,000 --> 00:07:56,800
identity right?
And you hear about things in

125
00:07:56,800 --> 00:08:00,000
some public schools usually on
the coasts where you know they

126
00:08:00,000 --> 00:08:04,200
have a litter box in the
bathroom so to speak, right?

127
00:08:04,200 --> 00:08:09,500
I mean it gets to the point of
insanity. and rather than get

128
00:08:09,500 --> 00:08:13,700
get Get them help.
Like we should we then cater to

129
00:08:13,700 --> 00:08:16,700
the mental illness.
Yeah, exactly.

130
00:08:16,700 --> 00:08:20,600
So obviously that's a problem
but the bigger problem is this

131
00:08:20,600 --> 00:08:22,300
kind of becomes a Gateway for
children.

132
00:08:23,200 --> 00:08:25,700
Because I think children it's
just, it doesn't seem like

133
00:08:25,700 --> 00:08:29,200
anything other than imagination
and role play and cute cuddly.

134
00:08:30,300 --> 00:08:31,200
Cute.
Cuddly characters.

135
00:08:32,400 --> 00:08:36,000
A lot of times the, a lot of
times the theory Community or,

136
00:08:36,000 --> 00:08:38,799
you know, they have, you know,
it's kind of was a spin-off

137
00:08:38,799 --> 00:08:43,799
from, the, My Little Pony Brony
epidemic, where you had a whole

138
00:08:43,808 --> 00:08:47,100
bunch of adult men getting
involved in My Little Pony

139
00:08:47,100 --> 00:08:49,400
cartoons, and fetishizing a
sexually.

140
00:08:50,700 --> 00:08:52,800
Right.
And to the point where, you

141
00:08:52,800 --> 00:08:55,300
know, you can't you couldn't
take your children, you couldn't

142
00:08:55,300 --> 00:08:57,800
take your daughter to a, My
Little Pony convention because

143
00:08:57,800 --> 00:09:03,100
this it's gonna be 90% adult men
with with weird sexual Kinks.

144
00:09:03,900 --> 00:09:05,100
Right.
Yep.

145
00:09:05,100 --> 00:09:07,500
And it shouldn't be.
That should be a safe place for

146
00:09:07,500 --> 00:09:09,700
children.
That should be a safe Community

147
00:09:09,700 --> 00:09:14,700
or a cultural icon for children.
And fetishizing adults took it

148
00:09:14,700 --> 00:09:20,300
over and it becomes this Gateway
where, you know, kids and My

149
00:09:20,300 --> 00:09:23,000
Little Pony.
And that's fun and then dressing

150
00:09:23,000 --> 00:09:25,300
up as My Little Pony.
That's kind of even cooler.

151
00:09:25,300 --> 00:09:27,900
And then, oh, there's a bunch of
people that like to do this,

152
00:09:27,900 --> 00:09:30,300
just like, and then, I want to
do involved in that.

153
00:09:30,308 --> 00:09:35,100
And then, you know, you go from
a little kid involved in a car

154
00:09:35,100 --> 00:09:38,000
children cartoon.
Suddenly finding their way into

155
00:09:38,000 --> 00:09:42,600
a community of as a sexual
fetish community and bad things

156
00:09:42,600 --> 00:09:44,400
happen when that when that
happens, right?

157
00:09:46,000 --> 00:09:49,700
so, I started following some of
these, these younger generation

158
00:09:49,700 --> 00:09:58,500
survivors and, I watched a video
that just blew my mind, it just

159
00:09:58,500 --> 00:10:05,100
absolutely blew my mind.
It was he basically was the

160
00:10:05,100 --> 00:10:07,800
creator basically made some
statement like if you were

161
00:10:07,800 --> 00:10:10,400
locked in a room and somebody
was going to come in and kill

162
00:10:10,408 --> 00:10:12,400
you and 10 minutes.
Do you think you could get out?

163
00:10:12,400 --> 00:10:13,700
Could you find a way out of
there?

164
00:10:15,000 --> 00:10:17,400
Jump to the window tariff
through the wall.

165
00:10:17,400 --> 00:10:19,800
Whatever it takes, right?
I think and yeah, sure.

166
00:10:19,800 --> 00:10:23,200
Absolutely.
Okay, you don't know anything.

167
00:10:23,200 --> 00:10:27,000
You are still exactly who you
are now, but you're giving a

168
00:10:27,000 --> 00:10:31,400
phone, and if you can't find
child abuse material, On that

169
00:10:31,400 --> 00:10:33,600
both in 10 minutes, somebody's
gonna come in and kill.

170
00:10:33,600 --> 00:10:34,600
You would you be able to do
that?

171
00:10:34,600 --> 00:10:38,100
He's like, yes, you could like
know you could, no way, no.

172
00:10:38,100 --> 00:10:40,600
I I know there's bad stuff on
the internet, right?

173
00:10:40,600 --> 00:10:43,400
There's the Dark web.
There's there's unsavory

174
00:10:43,400 --> 00:10:47,900
websites, you know, we hope that
our government is monitoring

175
00:10:47,900 --> 00:10:50,900
that kind of thing and actively
shutting it down.

176
00:10:50,900 --> 00:10:56,400
But we know that there's that
this is this is the the internet

177
00:10:56,400 --> 00:11:00,600
has become a medium of exchange
of some really bad stuff and

178
00:11:00,600 --> 00:11:05,100
there's some really bad places
out there. and, but it's surely.

179
00:11:05,100 --> 00:11:06,800
It's secret, right?
Surely it's hidden.

180
00:11:06,800 --> 00:11:09,900
You gotta, you gotta know the
secret password, she got to, you

181
00:11:09,900 --> 00:11:14,400
got to be a, you know, a member
of the of the PDF Club to know

182
00:11:14,400 --> 00:11:17,300
what's going on there.
You gotta be one of the Getty

183
00:11:17,300 --> 00:11:18,900
and Roberts to get in to that,
right?

184
00:11:18,900 --> 00:11:25,100
Surely surely Surely not just a
normal person would find their

185
00:11:25,100 --> 00:11:30,000
way there. unintentionally, I
couldn't find it if I wanted to

186
00:11:30,000 --> 00:11:33,400
I would I would I would have
expected but he lays out this

187
00:11:33,400 --> 00:11:37,500
case and and I thought you know
what Based off of what he just

188
00:11:37,500 --> 00:11:39,900
described.
I want to try this.

189
00:11:39,900 --> 00:11:44,200
I want to find out if he's
telling the truth, like Is this

190
00:11:44,200 --> 00:11:49,200
real?
and, I I'm a little concerned

191
00:11:49,200 --> 00:11:51,200
about maybe sharing this, I
think people need to know how

192
00:11:51,200 --> 00:11:54,900
big of a problem this is.
So this is what I did.

193
00:11:54,900 --> 00:11:59,200
I traded a new tiktok account
Completely fresh or not.

194
00:11:59,208 --> 00:12:06,200
I will actually it's my it is my
only tiktok but I'm not

195
00:12:06,200 --> 00:12:09,600
following anybody.
Don't like anybody, don't know

196
00:12:09,600 --> 00:12:13,300
anybody, I don't share any of my
contacts, nothing blank slate.

197
00:12:13,300 --> 00:12:17,900
And I just start scrolling
through the videos And doesn't

198
00:12:17,900 --> 00:12:20,900
take too long and you know,
there's a video and he talks

199
00:12:20,900 --> 00:12:23,800
about this, he talks about how
you it will funnel you win.

200
00:12:24,600 --> 00:12:29,400
And so I come across the first
video and it's slightly sexually

201
00:12:29,400 --> 00:12:32,100
suggested, right?
You got maybe somebody.

202
00:12:34,300 --> 00:12:39,100
Showing how a cooking recipe.
But she's wearing kind of not a

203
00:12:39,100 --> 00:12:44,200
whole lot on top, right?
A lot of Skin showing And I let

204
00:12:44,200 --> 00:12:46,300
instead of keep scrolling, I
paused.

205
00:12:48,300 --> 00:12:50,400
Let the video play through and
then kept going.

206
00:12:51,800 --> 00:12:54,100
And every time I see something
that was a little bit, you know

207
00:12:54,108 --> 00:12:57,300
kind of suggestive.
I'd stop for a minute.

208
00:12:58,000 --> 00:13:02,400
Then keep going.
Scroll, scroll stop it didn't

209
00:13:02,400 --> 00:13:06,100
take 10 minutes for the
algorithm to start filling

210
00:13:06,100 --> 00:13:09,700
everything with a pretty graphic
stuff.

211
00:13:09,700 --> 00:13:14,500
Now, granted, it's not safe for
work, but nothing in the old

212
00:13:14,500 --> 00:13:16,300
Eagle, right?
Adult stuff that not necessarily

213
00:13:16,300 --> 00:13:19,000
illegal.
But again, not something I'd

214
00:13:19,000 --> 00:13:20,300
want my kids seeing either,
though.

215
00:13:21,400 --> 00:13:24,800
That's something that I didn't
want to be seen to be honest, I

216
00:13:24,800 --> 00:13:28,600
wasn't but by pausing you're
telling algorithm that there's

217
00:13:28,600 --> 00:13:31,400
some interest there.
And the algorithm starts

218
00:13:31,400 --> 00:13:33,600
recalibrating to feed you more
of that content.

219
00:13:33,600 --> 00:13:39,400
Well all of a sudden, I see a
video of animals.

220
00:13:41,400 --> 00:13:48,400
Doing it graphically.
And, you know, Oh look, it's

221
00:13:48,400 --> 00:13:50,500
natural animals.
Do that kind of thing.

222
00:13:50,500 --> 00:13:53,600
But why would you record it?
And stick it on tiktok, right?

223
00:13:53,600 --> 00:13:57,100
Right makes no sense.
That that doesn't seem right,

224
00:13:57,100 --> 00:13:59,700
that seems that seems disturbing
to me.

225
00:14:00,700 --> 00:14:04,500
Especially yeah yeah.
It seemed kind of disturbing.

226
00:14:05,800 --> 00:14:08,900
And I paused on that one and
kept going and then I start

227
00:14:08,900 --> 00:14:13,500
getting more, and more and more.
My feet is just full of just the

228
00:14:13,500 --> 00:14:15,000
sickest stuff you can imagine
almost.

229
00:14:15,000 --> 00:14:18,300
Well, not even close actually,
I'm just getting started, but it

230
00:14:18,300 --> 00:14:21,100
was bad, it was bad.
And at that point, I'm like,

231
00:14:21,100 --> 00:14:24,700
okay, let's dig a Little Deeper.
I just who posted this video.

232
00:14:26,900 --> 00:14:29,900
It pulls up at the count and all
of the videos are similarly

233
00:14:29,900 --> 00:14:35,000
clearly sexual fetish stuff.
All right, none of that very

234
00:14:35,000 --> 00:14:37,700
pretty and I'm like, all right,
who's this guy following?

235
00:14:39,000 --> 00:14:46,100
and who's following this guy and
I start a count hopping and, I

236
00:14:46,100 --> 00:14:49,200
don't go very far at all.
Like I'm literally just two or

237
00:14:49,200 --> 00:14:54,700
three steps in From just one
sexually fetishized video on

238
00:14:54,700 --> 00:14:57,500
tiktok, right?
And I start finding some stuff

239
00:14:57,500 --> 00:15:03,000
that It was very confusing.
I don't want to show any of it,

240
00:15:03,000 --> 00:15:05,800
but I do want to describe some
of this stuff, okay?

241
00:15:07,400 --> 00:15:14,600
so, There's a profile account
and a user names given 1,000

242
00:15:14,600 --> 00:15:18,600
followers, following about a
1000 people.

243
00:15:18,600 --> 00:15:21,000
A lot of likes and in the
description.

244
00:15:22,100 --> 00:15:26,900
We just have the number 15.
That's it.

245
00:15:28,100 --> 00:15:31,300
Well there's more but just the
number 15 just out just kind of

246
00:15:31,300 --> 00:15:33,400
by itself.
Doesn't say what that 15

247
00:15:33,400 --> 00:15:34,900
represents doesn't say what it
means.

248
00:15:36,300 --> 00:15:41,100
But the number 15.
And it doesn't take a genius to

249
00:15:41,100 --> 00:15:43,500
figure out that this person is
saying that they are 15 years

250
00:15:43,500 --> 00:15:46,400
old.
Without saying they're 15 years

251
00:15:46,400 --> 00:15:54,000
old.
And I start looking through the

252
00:15:54,000 --> 00:15:58,100
posts.
And it looks like it does kind

253
00:15:58,100 --> 00:15:59,800
of look like, this is probably
somebody who's 15.

254
00:16:01,000 --> 00:16:04,800
Oh the cultural stuff at least
and I'm having a hard time

255
00:16:04,800 --> 00:16:09,100
understanding some of this
because I don't apparently I

256
00:16:09,100 --> 00:16:13,700
don't know the language. but one
of the things that was all over

257
00:16:13,700 --> 00:16:22,700
most of this person's post was
the the initials sh and I'm

258
00:16:22,700 --> 00:16:26,200
like, okay, sh like What is that
mean?

259
00:16:26,200 --> 00:16:29,200
What does that mean?
So you know, I started Google

260
00:16:29,200 --> 00:16:31,600
searching trying to find this
and it's not that easy because

261
00:16:31,600 --> 00:16:37,100
it's so it's so generic, right?
But then I, but then I actually

262
00:16:37,100 --> 00:16:39,200
know I, I didn't I couldn't find
it on Google.

263
00:16:39,200 --> 00:16:41,900
She had a post or he had a post.
I don't know.

264
00:16:41,900 --> 00:16:52,600
It's hard to tell. and it said,
self-harm. and, emotional and

265
00:16:52,600 --> 00:16:58,800
some sexual.
Abuse.

266
00:17:00,800 --> 00:17:03,800
Who and it seems to be saying
that this is them.

267
00:17:03,800 --> 00:17:06,500
This is their identity and all
the sudden SSH.

268
00:17:06,500 --> 00:17:09,300
Okay, self-harm.
That's what he talked about.

269
00:17:10,099 --> 00:17:16,300
Starts coming together, right?
Now, this is supposedly somebody

270
00:17:16,300 --> 00:17:23,400
who's 15 years old.
On tiktok admitting. to these

271
00:17:23,400 --> 00:17:29,100
things, and They have.
Over 1,000 followers.

272
00:17:32,400 --> 00:17:35,700
Who are these just friends from
from high school?

273
00:17:37,500 --> 00:17:40,500
Who's following this 15 year old
on tiktok?

274
00:17:40,500 --> 00:17:42,800
Who's admitting to being a
victim?

275
00:17:43,800 --> 00:17:46,700
And having mental problems, that
they're struggling with.

276
00:17:48,700 --> 00:17:51,800
Well, it got worse.
It got worse.

277
00:17:51,800 --> 00:17:53,500
It got a whole lot worse.
Real quick.

278
00:17:56,000 --> 00:18:00,400
I found another one and this one
was a little confusing but, you

279
00:18:00,400 --> 00:18:03,600
know, the person's profile
picture is of the Mario

280
00:18:03,600 --> 00:18:07,900
character, Princess Peach.
So again it's an appeal to

281
00:18:07,900 --> 00:18:14,700
youth, she's wearing a bikini.
and the colors on the bikini are

282
00:18:14,700 --> 00:18:25,500
of the What they call the map?
Lgbtq flag and map, stands for

283
00:18:25,500 --> 00:18:30,200
minor attracted person.
And while this isn't necessarily

284
00:18:30,200 --> 00:18:35,600
accepted and all of the lgbtq Ia
plus, you know, however, long

285
00:18:35,600 --> 00:18:41,100
that goes.
It is they do they consider

286
00:18:41,100 --> 00:18:43,900
themselves a part of that?
Whether or not the rest of that

287
00:18:43,900 --> 00:18:46,900
organization does, they've got
their own flag.

288
00:18:46,900 --> 00:18:50,400
Just like you've got, you know,
a million, lgbtq flags for

289
00:18:50,400 --> 00:18:53,500
different things, they've got
their own and that's, and that's

290
00:18:53,500 --> 00:18:55,000
what this Princess Peach is
wearing.

291
00:18:56,800 --> 00:18:59,500
The person's profile.
Name is pink.

292
00:18:59,500 --> 00:19:05,500
Heart blue, pink heart.
A icon of a map.

293
00:19:06,500 --> 00:19:10,500
I can logicon of a map and in a
pastel blue heart.

294
00:19:12,000 --> 00:19:14,500
His map for minor attracted
person.

295
00:19:14,500 --> 00:19:17,400
Yes.
Oh geez.

296
00:19:17,400 --> 00:19:20,500
Yeah, yeah.
And again, like, I'm not I don't

297
00:19:20,500 --> 00:19:24,100
even know this stuff and but it
wasn't that hard to figure out

298
00:19:24,100 --> 00:19:28,000
and again I didn't look it's not
like I went on tiktok and I'm

299
00:19:28,000 --> 00:19:31,600
searching.
I want to find You know, do you

300
00:19:31,608 --> 00:19:35,700
abuse material?
It came to me, 10 minutes of

301
00:19:35,700 --> 00:19:39,300
scrolling with a blank account.
And I'm already there.

302
00:19:41,500 --> 00:19:43,600
And what is this person's?
Got videos.

303
00:19:43,600 --> 00:19:45,900
Well, he's reposting videos from
other people.

304
00:19:45,900 --> 00:19:48,900
All showing a bunch of young
children.

305
00:19:49,800 --> 00:19:51,500
It's nothing.
Nothing graphic.

306
00:19:52,500 --> 00:19:57,700
Nothing explicitly sexual.
But it's weird, it's

307
00:19:57,700 --> 00:20:00,200
uncomfortable, it's really
uncomfortable, right?

308
00:20:00,200 --> 00:20:01,900
Like kind of like the what was
that movie?

309
00:20:01,900 --> 00:20:05,400
That was really Scandal.
The cuties That Netflix movie

310
00:20:05,400 --> 00:20:09,000
cuties.
Okay I don't ever remember

311
00:20:09,000 --> 00:20:11,200
watching it but yeah I remember
hearing about that.

312
00:20:11,200 --> 00:20:13,800
It was a big Scandal.
It was a it was a Netflix

313
00:20:13,800 --> 00:20:18,200
documentary about Young Young
girls.

314
00:20:19,500 --> 00:20:22,600
Dancing.
Oh, I remember hearing about

315
00:20:22,600 --> 00:20:23,100
this.
Okay.

316
00:20:23,100 --> 00:20:26,100
Yep.
And the movie, the movie

317
00:20:26,100 --> 00:20:30,200
supposedly was claiming to, to
be trying to expose.

318
00:20:30,200 --> 00:20:32,700
This is a bad thing and warned
about it, but nonetheless, the

319
00:20:32,700 --> 00:20:36,700
content in the movie, was what
was the Scandal because they

320
00:20:36,700 --> 00:20:40,500
hired actual actresses, that
were very underrated and had

321
00:20:40,500 --> 00:20:45,100
them wear and, you know, not a
whole lot of clothing doing very

322
00:20:45,100 --> 00:20:47,800
sexual dances and that's why it
was very, you know, that's why I

323
00:20:47,800 --> 00:20:52,500
think it was a really big
Scandal the time in and write So

324
00:20:52,500 --> 00:20:56,000
there's this person has the
bunch of videos of this kind of

325
00:20:56,000 --> 00:20:58,700
stuff Toddlers and Tiaras and
and stuff.

326
00:20:58,700 --> 00:21:02,200
And it's it's not it's very
clear exactly what this is.

327
00:21:02,200 --> 00:21:04,500
So this person's advertising out
in the open.

328
00:21:05,700 --> 00:21:09,200
Saying, what they are and what
their interests are you?

329
00:21:11,700 --> 00:21:17,300
would think that realistically,
like if If algorithms can cater.

330
00:21:18,000 --> 00:21:21,500
To what you like.
I would think in algorithm

331
00:21:21,500 --> 00:21:23,600
should be able to spot the word
map somewhere.

332
00:21:24,300 --> 00:21:26,300
And like yeah, get this dude
offline.

333
00:21:26,300 --> 00:21:27,600
Right?
Like right?

334
00:21:27,600 --> 00:21:30,400
Honestly, I I'm not a computer
programmer.

335
00:21:30,400 --> 00:21:35,600
I'm barely like I'm barely
computer literate enough to jump

336
00:21:35,600 --> 00:21:39,000
online, post some podcasts and
do some work with CAD, right?

337
00:21:39,000 --> 00:21:41,700
And that's about like the extent
to what I do.

338
00:21:43,200 --> 00:21:48,300
But even me I'm like okay if you
can like deliver curated content

339
00:21:48,300 --> 00:21:52,100
people certainly you can put out
a crawler that will identify

340
00:21:52,100 --> 00:21:55,700
certain problematic words like
map, right?

341
00:21:55,700 --> 00:22:00,300
Absolutely, absolutely and it is
it is subtle but it's all so

342
00:22:00,300 --> 00:22:04,800
explicit, right?
Another one is some video game

343
00:22:04,800 --> 00:22:08,900
Corpse Party and I don't know if
that is looks like I'm sure

344
00:22:08,900 --> 00:22:12,800
Japanese horror game.
With a bunch of anime girls.

345
00:22:13,900 --> 00:22:18,400
But the caption on it is, I love
and set of using horse party,

346
00:22:18,400 --> 00:22:22,000
it's the initials for the game.
Which would be CP.

347
00:22:23,600 --> 00:22:31,000
I love CP. which, Again.
They, they are saying they like

348
00:22:31,000 --> 00:22:34,000
this video game but CP actually
has a different meeting.

349
00:22:35,400 --> 00:22:39,500
Child and it Warren.
Yep, child coronagraphy.

350
00:22:41,100 --> 00:22:45,100
Oh boy.
And this person just saying this

351
00:22:45,100 --> 00:22:46,600
right here on tiktok.
How is this not?

352
00:22:46,600 --> 00:22:49,600
How is this person?
Not man, how is this not, I

353
00:22:49,600 --> 00:22:55,700
mean, Yeah.
There's no there is no of that

354
00:22:55,700 --> 00:22:57,700
right there in the tiktok feed,
of course.

355
00:22:59,300 --> 00:23:03,100
But nonetheless.
Yeah, let me ask you this

356
00:23:03,100 --> 00:23:06,600
because I do know that there are
groups that go around kind of,

357
00:23:06,600 --> 00:23:10,600
you know, non-government
organizations that go around and

358
00:23:10,600 --> 00:23:14,600
try to expose some of these any
possibility that some of those

359
00:23:14,600 --> 00:23:16,800
accounts are from those people,
right?

360
00:23:16,800 --> 00:23:18,100
Throw the baby.
Yeah.

361
00:23:19,600 --> 00:23:25,100
That was I had that suspicion to
I like maybe maybe tiktok's just

362
00:23:25,100 --> 00:23:29,400
right.
Maybe this is all a whole bunch

363
00:23:29,400 --> 00:23:32,900
of Honey Pops to bust these
guys, maybe that's a fake

364
00:23:32,900 --> 00:23:37,900
account made by the FBI waiting
for somebody to DM them and so

365
00:23:37,900 --> 00:23:41,500
that they can bust him.
Or maybe protect some children.

366
00:23:42,700 --> 00:23:45,300
I don't think so.
Okay.

367
00:23:45,300 --> 00:23:47,500
I don't think so.
The reason why I don't think so

368
00:23:47,500 --> 00:23:50,000
is because when you look at the
accounts that they're following

369
00:23:50,008 --> 00:23:53,600
and they counts following them,
they've been, it's an account.

370
00:23:53,608 --> 00:23:54,800
So that's been there for a long
time.

371
00:23:56,400 --> 00:24:00,100
And I know that a lot of the
accounts that they follow and

372
00:24:00,100 --> 00:24:02,300
accounts, following them have
already been banned on tiktok.

373
00:24:02,300 --> 00:24:06,400
And the interesting thing is,
It, I don't know what those

374
00:24:06,400 --> 00:24:10,200
accounts, I don't know who those
accounts, know, you could see,

375
00:24:10,200 --> 00:24:12,300
you could see the names of the
accounts that were banned.

376
00:24:13,500 --> 00:24:16,100
But they still showed up as in
the falling and followers list.

377
00:24:17,800 --> 00:24:20,100
And just reading the names of
these accounts that were

378
00:24:20,100 --> 00:24:21,100
following them.
Okay.

379
00:24:21,100 --> 00:24:23,800
Well, there's somebody who's
just like this person, it's just

380
00:24:23,808 --> 00:24:26,800
as explicit.
It's a wink, wink, not account.

381
00:24:28,100 --> 00:24:30,600
That's been banned.
And another one that's been bad.

382
00:24:32,700 --> 00:24:36,900
And I don't know, maybe you
could argue that maybe that's a

383
00:24:36,900 --> 00:24:37,700
Honeypot and they're going
after.

384
00:24:37,700 --> 00:24:41,200
But the thing is this these are
just some examples it did and I

385
00:24:41,200 --> 00:24:44,200
had to stop.
I got I got violently ill as I

386
00:24:44,200 --> 00:24:47,100
was going through this and I and
I had to delete the app and I'm

387
00:24:47,100 --> 00:24:54,400
never touching that awful thing
again. but, Here's another

388
00:24:54,400 --> 00:24:56,100
profile.
They got LinkedIn to all this.

389
00:24:57,700 --> 00:25:02,600
Deranged NB, gooner.
And be non-binary.

390
00:25:04,000 --> 00:25:07,100
I looked at up to.
DMS open.

391
00:25:07,100 --> 00:25:11,200
No Limits, wink.
Oh geez.

392
00:25:11,200 --> 00:25:17,100
Usually, inactive tongue stick
out. and then, The number seven.

393
00:25:18,300 --> 00:25:22,300
And the word team.
Being.

394
00:25:23,000 --> 00:25:30,100
Teen. so, the number seven and
the word teen, so, this looks to

395
00:25:30,100 --> 00:25:35,000
me, like, this is a 17 year old
Asking for trouble.

396
00:25:36,200 --> 00:25:40,100
Yeah, look for trouble.
And again, this isn't bad.

397
00:25:40,100 --> 00:25:42,400
This should be banned.
There are counts, full of a

398
00:25:42,400 --> 00:25:51,600
bunch of furry free corn. she's,
And then this is the one that

399
00:25:51,600 --> 00:25:55,900
that that just scared the hell
out of me and it and this is one

400
00:25:55,900 --> 00:25:58,400
I was done.
I followed off of that one and I

401
00:25:58,408 --> 00:26:02,300
found an account.
Um, nothing explicit in the

402
00:26:02,308 --> 00:26:04,800
name, no obvious signs of
anything.

403
00:26:04,800 --> 00:26:09,900
However, they've only got two
videos, a repost of a video of a

404
00:26:09,900 --> 00:26:14,500
fully clothed, child of a very
young age dancing in a way that

405
00:26:14,500 --> 00:26:20,100
seems kind of inappropriate.
And then another picture of

406
00:26:20,100 --> 00:26:25,000
telegram.
With. a lot of a lot of the

407
00:26:25,000 --> 00:26:30,900
censored out, but some telegram
messages showing 100 gigabyte

408
00:26:30,900 --> 00:26:33,600
files.
Do people.

409
00:26:33,608 --> 00:26:36,800
What telegram what the app
telegram is, so telegram.

410
00:26:36,800 --> 00:26:41,600
Yeah, Telegraph is a private
messaging app, kind of like a

411
00:26:41,600 --> 00:26:45,700
way to send texts to people,
however, normal text go through

412
00:26:45,700 --> 00:26:51,000
the cellular services, and our
visible to the cellular

413
00:26:51,000 --> 00:26:53,400
Services.
They're available to police have

414
00:26:53,400 --> 00:26:56,600
police were to subpoena those
text messages.

415
00:26:56,600 --> 00:26:59,000
Those are going to be their
telegram is a secure private

416
00:26:59,000 --> 00:27:02,300
communication and an encryption
that right.

417
00:27:02,300 --> 00:27:04,500
Yeah.
And to end encryption, meaning

418
00:27:04,500 --> 00:27:09,800
that even if The police were
like, hey we've got a warrant,

419
00:27:09,800 --> 00:27:12,000
we know that something bad
happens.

420
00:27:12,000 --> 00:27:16,500
We want to know who owns this
account, or what was said, Even

421
00:27:16,500 --> 00:27:20,800
telegram can't provide it.
It's end encrypted, right?

422
00:27:20,800 --> 00:27:23,800
Well at least supposedly it is I
don't know there's rumors that

423
00:27:23,800 --> 00:27:28,400
maybe the government secretly
can peek at that stuff still And

424
00:27:28,400 --> 00:27:31,200
it makes me conflicted because I
do think privacy is important.

425
00:27:31,200 --> 00:27:34,400
I think it's really important
that we are able to have private

426
00:27:34,400 --> 00:27:36,900
conversations with people and
not have the government watching

427
00:27:36,900 --> 00:27:41,800
over our shoulder 24/7.
Right. but you need to be aware

428
00:27:41,800 --> 00:27:45,900
that that also creates a
environment for for this.

429
00:27:47,100 --> 00:27:51,000
Somebody showing a screenshot of
hundreds of gigabyte files being

430
00:27:51,000 --> 00:27:53,400
shared over Telegram in a
private message.

431
00:27:55,800 --> 00:28:00,900
Most of it being censored.
But the big caption over this

432
00:28:00,900 --> 00:28:08,000
photo saying got new stuff.
Check my bio and a emoji icon of

433
00:28:08,000 --> 00:28:10,500
pizza.
Slices.

434
00:28:10,500 --> 00:28:15,000
Oh, Yeah.
Now, anyone you read the Epstein

435
00:28:15,000 --> 00:28:16,400
files knows exactly what that
is.

436
00:28:16,400 --> 00:28:20,200
Yeah, and here's something you
understand, too, like, I don't

437
00:28:20,200 --> 00:28:27,500
necessarily believe all these
conspiracies of of any tdf ring

438
00:28:27,500 --> 00:28:29,200
in Washington, that's running
the world.

439
00:28:29,200 --> 00:28:32,300
And there's the whole thing with
the comments said, there's

440
00:28:32,300 --> 00:28:34,400
definitely I looked into it.
There's definitely some weird

441
00:28:34,400 --> 00:28:37,500
stuff.
I don't know that.

442
00:28:37,500 --> 00:28:40,500
I completely buy it, but here's
what you understand, you don't

443
00:28:40,500 --> 00:28:43,700
need to buy it.
Whether or not they're really

444
00:28:43,708 --> 00:28:48,500
was an elite PDF ring doing this
with using Pizza as a code word

445
00:28:48,500 --> 00:28:53,700
for something.
It has caught on culturally at

446
00:28:53,700 --> 00:28:57,500
this point.
Right, right on Colby happened,

447
00:28:57,500 --> 00:29:00,700
right?
And so let me just sum this up

448
00:29:00,700 --> 00:29:05,200
so people can kind of follow
this. on tiktok, they kind of

449
00:29:05,200 --> 00:29:09,300
soft advertised for this, right,
those who are in the know and

450
00:29:09,300 --> 00:29:14,400
these communities they know what
the keywords are, what what they

451
00:29:14,400 --> 00:29:18,800
are, and then, they are able to
then link to an end, to end

452
00:29:18,800 --> 00:29:24,000
private Communication, Service
where they can, then view all

453
00:29:24,000 --> 00:29:27,700
the material Right.
And so what this account in

454
00:29:27,700 --> 00:29:31,200
their bio, what it says is got
new content at best qualities.

455
00:29:31,900 --> 00:29:35,000
My new account and then they've
got their telegram account.

456
00:29:35,900 --> 00:29:39,600
And then it says, ask for menu.
Oh boy.

457
00:29:39,600 --> 00:29:43,500
And that's what I was done.
That's when I was done.

458
00:29:43,500 --> 00:29:47,100
I mean, I I only spent like 15
minutes on this with the

459
00:29:47,100 --> 00:29:50,700
completely fresh tiktok account.
I wasn't looking for this.

460
00:29:50,700 --> 00:29:55,800
Yeah. 15 minutes.
I could probably do.

461
00:29:55,800 --> 00:29:57,900
I probably done it for hours.
I don't know if I would have had

462
00:29:57,908 --> 00:30:03,400
a soul left afterwards.
I would have hoped that I almost

463
00:30:03,400 --> 00:30:06,100
would hope that the FBI would
be, you know, kicking down my

464
00:30:06,100 --> 00:30:07,100
door and like, hey, what were
you?

465
00:30:07,108 --> 00:30:09,800
What we Were you doing?
Look in this telegram page

466
00:30:09,800 --> 00:30:15,700
because I would like to believe
that this is all just hundreds

467
00:30:15,700 --> 00:30:17,100
and hundreds and hundred
thousands.

468
00:30:18,200 --> 00:30:23,200
Of FBI honey pots on tiktok.
I don't think it is, though.

469
00:30:25,100 --> 00:30:28,200
I don't think it is because I've
heard stories and you do see

470
00:30:28,200 --> 00:30:30,500
eventually sometimes, there are
cases where this stuff gets

471
00:30:30,500 --> 00:30:34,800
exposed and this is exactly.
Like I said, these these, these

472
00:30:34,800 --> 00:30:38,800
roadblocks, kids, these
roadblocks victims or let's say,

473
00:30:38,800 --> 00:30:41,500
I'm gonna say survivors these
roadblocks survivors.

474
00:30:42,800 --> 00:30:44,200
Are saying this happened to
them.

475
00:30:45,400 --> 00:30:48,100
And then you go on tiktok and
own the hold.

476
00:30:48,800 --> 00:30:53,400
You're not even looking for it.
You could just be a teenage boy.

477
00:30:54,800 --> 00:30:56,900
With, you know, with some
hormones going.

478
00:30:58,300 --> 00:31:02,300
Right and okay well he kind of
oh that looks kind of cool.

479
00:31:02,300 --> 00:31:05,200
That looks kind of cool.
Oh yeah and before you know it

480
00:31:05,200 --> 00:31:10,400
you are you're being exposed to
Illegal.

481
00:31:10,400 --> 00:31:16,800
And Just awful, awful awful
things.

482
00:31:16,800 --> 00:31:19,100
You you are now in the world.
You are in the worst.

483
00:31:19,100 --> 00:31:24,300
Hell hole of That you can
imagine, and you're being

484
00:31:24,300 --> 00:31:28,500
groomed.
And you're and you're being

485
00:31:28,500 --> 00:31:33,500
exposed to this kind of stuff.
This is real and it's dangerous.

486
00:31:33,500 --> 00:31:40,100
It is really dangerous.
I I was, I started doing this

487
00:31:40,100 --> 00:31:43,300
because I didn't believe the guy
Right?

488
00:31:43,300 --> 00:31:45,900
I didn't believe the guy he's
like, if you were locking room

489
00:31:45,900 --> 00:31:51,700
in 10 minutes, would you be able
to find some abusive content

490
00:31:51,700 --> 00:31:55,500
online, if your life depended on
it, within within 10 minutes, 20

491
00:31:55,500 --> 00:31:58,200
minutes Of course, not, of
course, not.

492
00:32:00,200 --> 00:32:02,200
Right.
But I tried it.

493
00:32:04,200 --> 00:32:06,000
I tried it.
I wasn't even looking either.

494
00:32:06,000 --> 00:32:09,000
I wasn't even looking like I'm
not throwing I wasn't doing

495
00:32:09,000 --> 00:32:11,100
telegram searches throwing in
keywords?

496
00:32:11,100 --> 00:32:13,500
None of that.
I'm just letting the algorithm

497
00:32:14,600 --> 00:32:18,400
know that I'm a male and maybe I
am interested in the female body

498
00:32:18,400 --> 00:32:20,800
a little bit and 15 minutes
later.

499
00:32:20,800 --> 00:32:27,800
I'm getting advertisements for
child abuse material. you know,

500
00:32:27,808 --> 00:32:31,700
and Here's part of the problem,
too, right?

501
00:32:31,700 --> 00:32:38,100
Is that, we essentially ran a
social experiment On ourselves

502
00:32:38,100 --> 00:32:42,000
and our kids that we had no idea
what it was capable of, right?

503
00:32:42,000 --> 00:32:45,800
And so social media we just
threw it out to the masses and

504
00:32:45,800 --> 00:32:49,500
said, how that it And now I want
to say this, it's not all bad,

505
00:32:49,500 --> 00:32:51,400
right?
We have the ability to connect

506
00:32:51,400 --> 00:32:56,900
to get unfiltered information,
that's all great. but in the

507
00:32:56,900 --> 00:33:00,400
time that we've had these apps,
it's trained.

508
00:33:00,400 --> 00:33:07,500
Our kids to be it is taught our
kids instant gratification.

509
00:33:07,500 --> 00:33:10,900
There are no reason now to delay
gratification.

510
00:33:10,900 --> 00:33:13,600
It's all right now.
In the moment.

511
00:33:13,600 --> 00:33:17,300
And so, you got a young man?
Like you were saying, right?

512
00:33:17,300 --> 00:33:22,100
Hormones are pumping, right?
Stops for just a second and

513
00:33:22,100 --> 00:33:23,500
that's it.
So, right?

514
00:33:23,500 --> 00:33:27,700
Yeah.
So in some ways we have because

515
00:33:27,700 --> 00:33:32,300
of social media, we have a
generation that as they've grown

516
00:33:32,300 --> 00:33:35,100
up, they haven't matured at a
normal rate, right?

517
00:33:35,100 --> 00:33:38,500
If we look at just 15 year olds,
right?

518
00:33:38,500 --> 00:33:41,500
You're roughly from the same
time frame.

519
00:33:41,500 --> 00:33:42,800
I am, I think you're in your
mid-40s.

520
00:33:42,800 --> 00:33:47,500
I'm in my life for these, right?
if you look at a 15 year old

521
00:33:47,500 --> 00:33:51,800
today, they are vastly vastly
less mature than what you and I

522
00:33:51,808 --> 00:33:56,400
were And that was just a few
that was just just 30 years ago.

523
00:33:57,200 --> 00:34:03,100
Right. and now, It's, it's
completely different.

524
00:34:04,300 --> 00:34:05,800
Right.
So we've given instant

525
00:34:05,800 --> 00:34:09,400
gratification and trained a less
mature.

526
00:34:11,400 --> 00:34:14,600
Set of young people who can just
glom on to this.

527
00:34:16,900 --> 00:34:19,199
Absolutely absolutely.
And I'll be honest.

528
00:34:19,199 --> 00:34:23,600
Like so we're both jedex right
and so right you know we we

529
00:34:23,600 --> 00:34:25,300
would play outside with our
friends.

530
00:34:25,300 --> 00:34:27,300
Tell the streetlights came on,
there was no concern.

531
00:34:27,300 --> 00:34:30,300
There was no questions we drive
right around on our bikes.

532
00:34:32,100 --> 00:34:36,100
Go through town.
Just we kind of grew up with

533
00:34:36,100 --> 00:34:40,100
out, leashes, and observations.
And for the most part, I think

534
00:34:40,100 --> 00:34:42,699
we turned out, okay?
Yeah.

535
00:34:44,000 --> 00:34:46,500
But it's a different world.
It's a different.

536
00:34:46,500 --> 00:34:48,100
It is a different world today as
well.

537
00:34:48,100 --> 00:34:50,000
I don't know that I'm
comfortable.

538
00:34:50,000 --> 00:34:53,100
I would like to raise my
children to be able to have that

539
00:34:53,100 --> 00:34:55,000
much freedom.
Right.

540
00:34:55,800 --> 00:34:58,400
I don't know if I'm actually
comfortable allowing that though

541
00:34:58,400 --> 00:35:02,100
because it is a different world.
Now I'll tell you, I got into

542
00:35:02,100 --> 00:35:04,500
the video games when I was, when
I was young as well, I was an

543
00:35:04,500 --> 00:35:08,700
early adopter on computer
science for my age and I

544
00:35:08,700 --> 00:35:11,400
remember I was on the brand the
breaking cut.

545
00:35:11,400 --> 00:35:15,000
So when I first got into video
games to play multiplayer games,

546
00:35:15,000 --> 00:35:18,000
you had to drag your computer
over to your friend's house and

547
00:35:18,000 --> 00:35:19,800
and wire them together and
that's how you played

548
00:35:19,800 --> 00:35:24,700
multiplayer games.
Either that or you connect to

549
00:35:24,700 --> 00:35:27,700
these things called Bolton board
Services, where your computer

550
00:35:27,708 --> 00:35:31,500
calls uses your phone line and
makes a voice call to another

551
00:35:31,500 --> 00:35:35,400
computer and sends data and I
can get on there and I could

552
00:35:35,400 --> 00:35:39,500
take a move on a game and then I
then I hang up and then a friend

553
00:35:39,500 --> 00:35:41,700
can call in and they can make a
move and hang up.

554
00:35:41,700 --> 00:35:43,900
And I can, I mean that was that
was it.

555
00:35:43,900 --> 00:35:46,000
That's what we had.
And then the internet happens,

556
00:35:46,000 --> 00:35:47,700
the internet comes to town
finally.

557
00:35:49,500 --> 00:35:54,200
And online video games.
Was this brand new thing and I

558
00:35:54,208 --> 00:35:57,400
was there for it.
I loved I loved video games as a

559
00:35:57,400 --> 00:36:01,900
kid and I remember, I'm in
these, I mean I was playing

560
00:36:01,900 --> 00:36:04,400
online and these communities it
was mostly adults.

561
00:36:06,000 --> 00:36:09,300
Because mostly adults had the,
had the money in the resources

562
00:36:09,300 --> 00:36:11,800
for these computers, like I was
kind of early adopter.

563
00:36:14,200 --> 00:36:18,700
But I was still pretty young.
The worst, the worst I ever

564
00:36:18,700 --> 00:36:22,800
encountered was was just like
adult language, you know, swear

565
00:36:22,800 --> 00:36:26,300
words and stuff and in the chat
sometimes when somebody lost a

566
00:36:26,300 --> 00:36:28,600
game but everybody was there to
game, they were all gays.

567
00:36:28,600 --> 00:36:34,100
And there wasn't even I can't
there wasn't really even any not

568
00:36:34,100 --> 00:36:36,100
safe for work stuff going on in
these communities.

569
00:36:36,800 --> 00:36:38,400
Right?
When I was a kid.

570
00:36:39,900 --> 00:36:41,900
But we live in a very different
world.

571
00:36:43,800 --> 00:36:48,800
Very different world and I would
love to say that it's just a

572
00:36:48,800 --> 00:36:54,300
problem on tiktok.
I don't think it is, I don't

573
00:36:54,300 --> 00:36:57,400
think it is.
I in fact, I do spend a lot of

574
00:36:57,400 --> 00:37:01,300
time on YouTube and I've never
encountered anything that really

575
00:37:01,300 --> 00:37:05,400
of a problem there before but I
did want to maybe try and repeat

576
00:37:05,400 --> 00:37:08,400
this one more time so I created
a brand new You Tube account

577
00:37:09,300 --> 00:37:12,900
Completely clean.
Started scrolling and it started

578
00:37:12,900 --> 00:37:15,300
going the same direction.
I didn't follow it through all

579
00:37:15,300 --> 00:37:18,600
the way.
I just I found a channel where

580
00:37:18,600 --> 00:37:24,300
you have these girls doing
acrobatics. in a way that was

581
00:37:24,300 --> 00:37:29,100
just wrong.
Just wrong. and I saw that,

582
00:37:29,100 --> 00:37:32,500
okay, this rabbit holes even on
YouTube, It's on tiktok, it's on

583
00:37:32,500 --> 00:37:34,100
YouTube.
Is it on x?

584
00:37:34,900 --> 00:37:36,800
Yeah.
Yep, it's on next two.

585
00:37:37,500 --> 00:37:42,800
It's on EX on Facebook.
Probably I I don't think social

586
00:37:42,800 --> 00:37:45,100
media is safe for children
anymore.

587
00:37:45,100 --> 00:37:48,100
I don't even know that safe for
adults because like I said,

588
00:37:50,100 --> 00:37:54,100
Okay, back in the back in back
when I was a kid, you're right.

589
00:37:55,100 --> 00:37:59,300
If you wanted to find some
pornography, You have work, you

590
00:37:59,300 --> 00:38:01,700
had to work for it, right.
There weren't a lot of options,

591
00:38:01,700 --> 00:38:05,600
unless you lived in Vegas.
Right where you can find stuff

592
00:38:05,600 --> 00:38:07,500
all over the streets.
Yeah, right.

593
00:38:07,500 --> 00:38:10,500
Just I remember as a kid being
in Vegas, my parents like, Don't

594
00:38:10,500 --> 00:38:13,600
Look Down, Don't Look Down.
I took a peek down.

595
00:38:15,000 --> 00:38:18,000
Whoa.
Yeah, okay, don't look down.

596
00:38:18,000 --> 00:38:23,700
Yeah but outside of Vegas.
You were safe, but today the

597
00:38:23,700 --> 00:38:26,900
internet is pretty much like the
floor of Vegas in the 90s.

598
00:38:28,100 --> 00:38:32,300
It is, why littered?
Which is why if you jump on

599
00:38:32,300 --> 00:38:35,100
YouTube, you should only be
searching the Mormon Renegade

600
00:38:35,100 --> 00:38:37,200
podcast and it just breaks that
Rhythm.

601
00:38:37,200 --> 00:38:40,900
So yeah, well the good news is
algorithms can protect you too

602
00:38:40,900 --> 00:38:44,700
because I said I'm not a teenage
boy with hormones.

603
00:38:44,700 --> 00:38:47,300
Raging, you know, I have, I'm
married.

604
00:38:47,300 --> 00:38:50,600
I've got a wife.
I'm not I'm not as interested in

605
00:38:50,600 --> 00:38:54,000
that stuff is maybe I would have
been as a teenager Right?

606
00:38:54,000 --> 00:38:56,600
And I don't see any of it
because the kind of things that

607
00:38:56,600 --> 00:39:00,400
I'm interested on YouTube, feed,
and algorithm, and then it zooms

608
00:39:00,400 --> 00:39:01,800
in on the things that I'm
interested in.

609
00:39:03,500 --> 00:39:10,000
But again, clean clean account.
Show some show some nail hormone

610
00:39:10,000 --> 00:39:15,900
interest and it gets really
dirty really fast again and it

611
00:39:15,900 --> 00:39:18,900
doesn't just get dirty.
I'm not just talking pornography

612
00:39:18,900 --> 00:39:21,100
is bad.
Let me just say a pornography is

613
00:39:21,100 --> 00:39:22,900
bad.
It's harmful it is not good.

614
00:39:22,900 --> 00:39:27,900
It is destructive.
But this is way beyond that,

615
00:39:27,900 --> 00:39:30,700
right?
This is way beyond that.

616
00:39:32,100 --> 00:39:34,000
Right?
So I don't know.

617
00:39:34,000 --> 00:39:38,700
The answer is, to be honest.
I On the one hand, it seems like

618
00:39:38,700 --> 00:39:41,500
we need the internet to live
nowadays and our children need

619
00:39:41,500 --> 00:39:47,500
to know how to navigate it.
On the other hand. because of

620
00:39:47,500 --> 00:39:52,300
the power of technology and lack
of moderation of this

621
00:39:52,300 --> 00:39:56,300
technology, Right.
That what used to be, you know,

622
00:39:56,300 --> 00:39:59,800
is a kid, you know, watch out
for the guy, you know, with the

623
00:39:59,800 --> 00:40:02,400
guy with the big black van
offering to give you candy.

624
00:40:03,400 --> 00:40:05,900
Right.
Is literally on every street

625
00:40:05,900 --> 00:40:08,500
corner on the internet.
Right.

626
00:40:09,500 --> 00:40:11,900
Every street corner.
It's not it's not a question of

627
00:40:11,900 --> 00:40:15,800
if your children run into this,
it really is going to only be a

628
00:40:15,800 --> 00:40:20,800
question of when Right.
And I wish I had a good answer.

629
00:40:20,800 --> 00:40:25,200
I wish I could say that.
Um, if you do this and this and

630
00:40:25,200 --> 00:40:27,600
this you can you can avoid it.
If you do this you can protect

631
00:40:27,600 --> 00:40:30,800
your family from it.
If you buy this program or set

632
00:40:30,800 --> 00:40:32,600
up your computer, this way,
it'll protect them.

633
00:40:34,400 --> 00:40:37,800
It's, it's not true.
There's nothing out there that

634
00:40:37,800 --> 00:40:41,900
can that can do that.
Not at least not to not to a

635
00:40:41,900 --> 00:40:45,000
determined child with a much
better grasp of Technology than

636
00:40:45,000 --> 00:40:48,500
their parents probably have.
That's certainly where I was and

637
00:40:48,500 --> 00:40:51,300
I know enough about technology
is an expert in it to know that

638
00:40:51,300 --> 00:40:54,600
there's no such thing as as a
safe internet.

639
00:40:56,000 --> 00:40:59,300
Right.
Any kind of safeguards can be

640
00:40:59,300 --> 00:41:02,900
circumvented.
Usually, with minimal effort.

641
00:41:06,300 --> 00:41:09,700
Just just ask your friend.
How do I get, how do I get

642
00:41:09,700 --> 00:41:11,100
through this filter?
How do I get on?

643
00:41:11,100 --> 00:41:13,900
I want to get on tiktok in my
parents won't let me and they

644
00:41:13,900 --> 00:41:17,000
blocked on my phone.
Their friends will show him how

645
00:41:19,100 --> 00:41:23,300
so I don't know what to do about
it, but it for myself and I

646
00:41:23,300 --> 00:41:27,800
guess for my family, I think I
have to take a As a zero social

647
00:41:27,800 --> 00:41:31,600
media policy, at the very least.
It's got to be supervised

648
00:41:31,600 --> 00:41:34,100
constantly.
When my kids want even just

649
00:41:34,100 --> 00:41:36,900
YouTube.
If my kids, and they and they

650
00:41:36,900 --> 00:41:38,700
learn, they my kids love
learning on YouTube.

651
00:41:38,700 --> 00:41:41,900
My kids have learned that you
can ask any question you can

652
00:41:41,908 --> 00:41:45,100
ever imagine.
And while my dad have no idea,

653
00:41:46,200 --> 00:41:48,700
Somebody on YouTube's done a
video on it right?

654
00:41:48,700 --> 00:41:50,100
Yep.
Yep.

655
00:41:50,100 --> 00:41:55,300
And my kids love to learn all
kinds of amazing things on

656
00:41:55,300 --> 00:41:58,000
YouTube by by asking those
questions that I could never

657
00:41:58,000 --> 00:42:01,000
answer.
But they've got to watch it with

658
00:42:01,000 --> 00:42:04,000
Mom or Dad, even the ads
sometimes.

659
00:42:05,100 --> 00:42:10,700
Are just explicit exclusively
pornographic ads, just you're

660
00:42:10,700 --> 00:42:12,800
watching little video.
Next thing, you know, it's, it's

661
00:42:12,800 --> 00:42:15,600
a Viagra commercial that should
be X-rated.

662
00:42:16,600 --> 00:42:20,700
I was gonna say when I turned 45
because you know all those apps

663
00:42:20,700 --> 00:42:23,600
you put in your birthday right?
You turn a certain age and they

664
00:42:23,600 --> 00:42:26,900
start tailoring content to what
45 year olds.

665
00:42:27,600 --> 00:42:31,400
Would be so just be, oh, and so,
you know?

666
00:42:31,408 --> 00:42:33,700
Yeah.
If they're using any.

667
00:42:33,700 --> 00:42:37,300
Yeah, no.
It's, it's just so dangerous,

668
00:42:37,300 --> 00:42:39,500
right?
And again, back when you and I

669
00:42:39,500 --> 00:42:44,400
were kids If you wanted to watch
a risque movie not even not even

670
00:42:44,400 --> 00:42:48,300
a really bad x-rated movie.
Just a risk game movie.

671
00:42:48,300 --> 00:42:50,100
Will you had to do a couple
things?

672
00:42:50,100 --> 00:42:54,300
One is you either had to have
cable or go over to your buddies

673
00:42:54,300 --> 00:42:57,000
house that had cable.
Then you had to wait till about

674
00:42:57,000 --> 00:43:01,300
10:30 or 11 oclock and then you
could watch the risk game movie.

675
00:43:01,300 --> 00:43:04,900
And yeah, friend.
You had a TV in their room.

676
00:43:05,600 --> 00:43:07,800
Because you can't do that the
living room, right?

677
00:43:07,800 --> 00:43:11,400
Right.
And so like it's it's such a

678
00:43:11,408 --> 00:43:13,500
different world.
And even that risk game movie,

679
00:43:13,500 --> 00:43:17,600
that you were watching, is
probably the equivalent of a

680
00:43:17,600 --> 00:43:24,200
PG-13 movie today, right?
And so, It is such a different

681
00:43:24,200 --> 00:43:28,400
world that we live in, and we
haven't trained our kids, how to

682
00:43:28,400 --> 00:43:31,900
be mature enough to handle this
responsibility, right?

683
00:43:31,900 --> 00:43:37,200
How to step away from things and
quite frankly, What we've ended

684
00:43:37,200 --> 00:43:39,800
up with is, like I said
disaster.

685
00:43:39,800 --> 00:43:43,300
We have the probably the less
mature generation that we've

686
00:43:43,300 --> 00:43:46,800
ever had.
With instant gratification

687
00:43:46,800 --> 00:43:50,600
throwing in the mix.
It's a it's like, mixing.

688
00:43:51,700 --> 00:43:55,300
Up a Molotov cocktail that's
going to have horrific

689
00:43:55,300 --> 00:43:58,800
repercussions for society.
When those kids start getting

690
00:43:58,800 --> 00:44:05,600
married having children of Their
Own, well, I if if you start

691
00:44:05,600 --> 00:44:09,800
having children, yeah.
Um, that's that's another big

692
00:44:09,800 --> 00:44:11,500
concern.
And that's part of this is a

693
00:44:11,500 --> 00:44:15,900
part of that problem, as well.
this is directly a part of that

694
00:44:15,900 --> 00:44:19,300
problem as well, when you've got
a generation of abuse survivors,

695
00:44:20,900 --> 00:44:24,400
Yeah, and look.
I don't I can't blame it, right?

696
00:44:24,400 --> 00:44:27,300
Like if you were a young teen
girl and something traumatic

697
00:44:27,300 --> 00:44:29,300
happened.
I can't, I can't.

698
00:44:29,300 --> 00:44:31,800
I can't blame you for being
like, I don't I don't want to

699
00:44:31,800 --> 00:44:33,200
ever get married.
I don't, I don't want to.

700
00:44:33,200 --> 00:44:35,700
I don't want to be right?
I don't want that.

701
00:44:35,700 --> 00:44:40,400
I don't want that.
It's sad because that's not what

702
00:44:40,400 --> 00:44:43,400
they're rejecting.
But when you've been

703
00:44:43,408 --> 00:44:47,800
traumatized, That can be a
really, really hard thing to

704
00:44:47,800 --> 00:44:49,500
deal with.
Yeah.

705
00:44:51,400 --> 00:44:56,200
Oh, that's impact.
You know, I'll just I'll share a

706
00:44:56,200 --> 00:44:59,900
personal story here, actually.
So what I was going to call

707
00:44:59,900 --> 00:45:04,400
College in Korea after my
mission, I was still single.

708
00:45:05,300 --> 00:45:09,100
And I was dating around and I
met somebody and in the State

709
00:45:09,100 --> 00:45:12,800
Choir.
And she was a Korean.

710
00:45:12,800 --> 00:45:15,000
What do you call it?
Korean.

711
00:45:18,500 --> 00:45:22,500
Genetically, like she was a
she's full blooded Korean, but

712
00:45:22,500 --> 00:45:26,400
she was born.
In Korea and then moved to like

713
00:45:26,400 --> 00:45:30,200
Canada when she was three.
So she's an ethnic Korean right?

714
00:45:31,400 --> 00:45:35,100
And then raise in the in the
West in Canada and then went

715
00:45:35,100 --> 00:45:37,100
back to Korea.
Okay?

716
00:45:37,100 --> 00:45:39,700
Right exactly.
So she didn't really speak

717
00:45:39,700 --> 00:45:43,300
Korean very well her parents did
that she didn't she was there

718
00:45:43,300 --> 00:45:46,400
teaching English for work?
and I was there going to school

719
00:45:46,400 --> 00:45:51,600
and, you know, as the As the
closer culturally than that,

720
00:45:51,600 --> 00:45:54,100
then either of us were with
actual Koreans.

721
00:45:55,200 --> 00:45:58,500
You know, there were some
natural interest there, right?

722
00:45:59,800 --> 00:46:04,200
and so, we started dating and I
thought everything seemed to be

723
00:46:04,200 --> 00:46:04,600
going.
Okay?

724
00:46:05,600 --> 00:46:07,700
I thought things were going,
okay, and we really seem to like

725
00:46:07,700 --> 00:46:11,200
each other and then something
happened.

726
00:46:12,500 --> 00:46:15,300
And I didn't understand what was
going on but she started.

727
00:46:16,400 --> 00:46:18,800
I don't know, any better way to
say than crashing out.

728
00:46:19,500 --> 00:46:24,800
Crashing out.
And it was really shocking and

729
00:46:24,800 --> 00:46:27,100
bizarre to me.
I didn't I never seen this kind

730
00:46:27,100 --> 00:46:30,400
of behavior before but I hadn't
been in a whole lot of

731
00:46:30,400 --> 00:46:33,500
relationships before either, so
maybe I'm like, is this just is

732
00:46:33,500 --> 00:46:36,700
this is this women?
Right.

733
00:46:36,700 --> 00:46:38,500
Right?
No frame of reference.

734
00:46:38,500 --> 00:46:40,000
You're just I don't have a
reference.

735
00:46:40,000 --> 00:46:43,200
I am maybe this is, this is
maybe this is how women neck

736
00:46:43,200 --> 00:46:45,000
when they're getting really
serious.

737
00:46:45,000 --> 00:46:47,500
And we were getting serious.
We were talking about getting

738
00:46:47,500 --> 00:46:49,800
married even and I told her I'm
wanting to get married in the

739
00:46:49,800 --> 00:46:55,100
temple. and she said, I'd like
to get married in the temple

740
00:46:55,100 --> 00:46:57,200
too.
But I don't think I can.

741
00:46:59,800 --> 00:47:01,700
And I was too afraid to ask her
at the time.

742
00:47:02,600 --> 00:47:05,300
What that meant I just assumed
that.

743
00:47:05,300 --> 00:47:07,600
Oh, maybe there's some things
she needs to work through,

744
00:47:07,600 --> 00:47:09,700
right?
Maybe there's some right.

745
00:47:09,700 --> 00:47:12,900
I don't know.
I didn't want to ask, but as we

746
00:47:12,900 --> 00:47:16,100
got closer and closer and more
committed, it got to the point

747
00:47:16,100 --> 00:47:19,100
where her behavior was getting
worse and worse.

748
00:47:20,800 --> 00:47:26,200
And the last straw was.
We had gone on a date one night.

749
00:47:27,000 --> 00:47:31,900
and, We're about to head home
and I we didn't live nearby each

750
00:47:31,900 --> 00:47:33,500
other.
I'm living on the you know, by

751
00:47:33,500 --> 00:47:36,600
the college and she was off
living near the downtown where

752
00:47:36,600 --> 00:47:42,700
the school, where the English
schools were and, We part ways.

753
00:47:43,900 --> 00:47:45,900
And I get home and then she
calls me.

754
00:47:47,300 --> 00:47:52,500
And she says, I need you to.
I need you to come over here. or

755
00:47:52,500 --> 00:47:56,100
I'm gonna, I'm gonna End my
life.

756
00:47:57,000 --> 00:48:01,600
Oh boy.
And she was a rack, I rushed

757
00:48:01,600 --> 00:48:05,800
over, and she was a rack.
And I didn't understand what was

758
00:48:05,800 --> 00:48:15,200
going on. but, I wanted to be
there for I wanted to support

759
00:48:15,200 --> 00:48:21,400
her and and she told me a story
of and she told me, this is the

760
00:48:21,400 --> 00:48:22,700
first time she'd ever told
anybody.

761
00:48:23,500 --> 00:48:30,200
But she had a, an uncle.
Non-biological. who has been

762
00:48:30,200 --> 00:48:35,200
staying with her family and had
been since she was like eight

763
00:48:35,200 --> 00:48:41,600
years old.
And abused had been happening

764
00:48:41,600 --> 00:48:47,700
since she was 18 year old. 18
years old until she was 18 and

765
00:48:47,700 --> 00:48:52,300
went to Korea.
Boy.

766
00:48:53,900 --> 00:48:55,400
And it can continue that whole
time.

767
00:48:56,500 --> 00:48:59,500
And she never pulled a soul and
I'm the first person she'd ever

768
00:48:59,500 --> 00:49:02,500
told.
And all the sudden, I started

769
00:49:02,500 --> 00:49:06,800
understanding why.
What was going on the stuff that

770
00:49:06,800 --> 00:49:09,600
seemed off.
So like, but one of the things

771
00:49:09,600 --> 00:49:15,000
that really, really shocked and
surprised me was She blamed

772
00:49:15,000 --> 00:49:20,000
herself.
She said that this guy had also

773
00:49:20,000 --> 00:49:23,300
told her when she left that he
was gonna come to Korea someday

774
00:49:23,300 --> 00:49:30,600
secretly and kidnapper.
And it was one of the things

775
00:49:30,600 --> 00:49:33,200
she's been worried about she's
worried that this guy's gonna,

776
00:49:33,200 --> 00:49:37,800
maybe would kill me. if he
found, if he found out that she

777
00:49:37,800 --> 00:49:43,100
was dating me, she also thought
that it was her fault.

778
00:49:44,500 --> 00:49:47,200
This is why she said that she
can't get married in the temple.

779
00:49:49,000 --> 00:49:56,200
so, I was at a loss but I I
still, you know, it didn't

780
00:49:56,200 --> 00:49:59,700
change my that the facts of her
past did not change my feelings

781
00:49:59,700 --> 00:50:01,900
for her, right?
And I still wanted to move

782
00:50:01,900 --> 00:50:03,700
forward.
With stuff.

783
00:50:03,700 --> 00:50:04,900
And I also knew she needed to
get her help.

784
00:50:04,900 --> 00:50:08,400
Get some help.
So I I was able to convince her

785
00:50:08,400 --> 00:50:10,500
to.
She had a sister who was living

786
00:50:10,500 --> 00:50:15,200
in Korea, an older sister And
first, I got her warmed up to

787
00:50:15,200 --> 00:50:17,200
the idea of talking about this
with her sister.

788
00:50:17,200 --> 00:50:20,300
So we had her sister, come over
and, and, and we love the sister

789
00:50:20,300 --> 00:50:23,200
know.
And then the sister helped her

790
00:50:23,200 --> 00:50:25,100
helped.
Convince her that she needed to

791
00:50:25,100 --> 00:50:27,200
let Mom and Dad know because
this guy was still living in her

792
00:50:27,200 --> 00:50:32,200
parents house at the time.
Oh geez and mom and dad need to

793
00:50:32,200 --> 00:50:38,800
know, right?
Oh yeah. so, She has a call with

794
00:50:38,800 --> 00:50:44,200
her parents and Walter's sisters
there and we went and she told

795
00:50:44,200 --> 00:50:47,800
them when it happened.
And you know her parents were

796
00:50:47,800 --> 00:50:53,800
crying. it was a very Very sad.
Realization right.

797
00:50:55,800 --> 00:50:58,900
Her parents wanted.
Her parents didn't speak English

798
00:50:58,900 --> 00:51:01,900
and my Korean was not perfect.
Certainly, didn't have not had

799
00:51:01,900 --> 00:51:04,200
the vocabulary to be discussing
all of this kind of stuff.

800
00:51:05,400 --> 00:51:08,500
But done the last parents gave
me or their contact information.

801
00:51:08,500 --> 00:51:11,400
They wanted me to have it so
that I could get a hold of them

802
00:51:11,400 --> 00:51:15,000
if I needed to.
And then I started being like,

803
00:51:15,000 --> 00:51:16,700
well, let's, let's talk to the
bishop.

804
00:51:16,700 --> 00:51:20,700
Let's go to the church and let's
go to the bishop next and and

805
00:51:20,700 --> 00:51:24,500
see what what we can do here.
So we, you know, we can get you

806
00:51:24,500 --> 00:51:27,400
some help.
And in my mind part of me is

807
00:51:27,400 --> 00:51:29,800
also I need the bishop to help
you understand.

808
00:51:29,800 --> 00:51:34,000
That you are a victim.
You are, you are, you're not

809
00:51:34,000 --> 00:51:36,900
disqualified and unworthy you go
to the temple because you had

810
00:51:36,900 --> 00:51:41,800
been abused your victimized.
This isn't that's not how that

811
00:51:41,800 --> 00:51:44,700
works.
And even just because the abuse

812
00:51:44,700 --> 00:51:50,500
continued past, Well what age?
What age is this person?

813
00:51:50,500 --> 00:51:55,100
No longer a victim, right?
I would say as long as they're

814
00:51:55,100 --> 00:51:57,100
with that person and they're
still doing it, they're still a

815
00:51:57,100 --> 00:51:58,600
victim.
Absolutely.

816
00:51:58,600 --> 00:52:02,400
It's their 20 if they're 30.
They're 40.

817
00:52:04,500 --> 00:52:07,200
Because it was really clear to
me that she was well on.

818
00:52:07,200 --> 00:52:10,100
This is the problem started to
becoming clear to me that she

819
00:52:10,100 --> 00:52:12,500
was not an adult.
Right?

820
00:52:12,500 --> 00:52:16,600
She was not an adult yet.
This had done something to her.

821
00:52:17,700 --> 00:52:20,300
And she could put on this
appearance of I'm an adult.

822
00:52:23,200 --> 00:52:25,600
But then sometimes she couldn't
wear that mask of being an

823
00:52:25,600 --> 00:52:28,100
adult.
And she wasn't Right.

824
00:52:29,400 --> 00:52:32,400
And the bishop was trying to
help her understand that.

825
00:52:32,400 --> 00:52:34,700
No, you haven't you not?
You haven't seen.

826
00:52:34,700 --> 00:52:36,400
You're not you're not going to
go to hell.

827
00:52:37,700 --> 00:52:40,900
You're going to be okay and you
need to rely on the atonement in

828
00:52:40,900 --> 00:52:43,300
Christ to heal for this kind of
stuff.

829
00:52:46,500 --> 00:52:49,100
And that you can certainly get
prepared and ready to go to the

830
00:52:49,100 --> 00:52:52,500
temple but this is what then
really dawned on me.

831
00:52:54,000 --> 00:52:56,800
Because I wanted to get married,
but I also wanted to have a

832
00:52:56,808 --> 00:53:04,100
family.
Right. and, Like I said, she'd

833
00:53:04,100 --> 00:53:06,000
wear this mask of.
I'm an adult.

834
00:53:07,500 --> 00:53:09,300
But I could see that there's all
a part of her.

835
00:53:09,300 --> 00:53:11,100
That's not an adult.
There's a part of her.

836
00:53:11,100 --> 00:53:15,000
That's still a child.
And is incapable of being an

837
00:53:15,000 --> 00:53:16,700
adult.
And it's like, you start

838
00:53:16,708 --> 00:53:19,800
wondering like, how, what if we
had children?

839
00:53:19,800 --> 00:53:22,500
Could she be a mother?
Like what if I thought work and

840
00:53:22,500 --> 00:53:24,800
she's home with the kid and
suddenly, she has a suicidal

841
00:53:27,100 --> 00:53:32,000
thought or feelings or how can
she be responsible parent?

842
00:53:33,000 --> 00:53:39,200
if she hasn't really healed from
this stuff, And in one of the

843
00:53:39,200 --> 00:53:42,700
the absolute most heartbreaking
tragic moments of my life.

844
00:53:42,700 --> 00:53:45,700
I I called her parents and I
told him that she needs to go

845
00:53:45,700 --> 00:53:47,500
home and she needs some serious
help.

846
00:53:47,500 --> 00:53:50,400
And that she doesn't need a
husband right now.

847
00:53:51,200 --> 00:53:53,100
She doesn't need to become a
mother right now.

848
00:53:53,100 --> 00:53:55,000
She needs.
She needs her parents.

849
00:53:55,000 --> 00:53:58,700
She needs some help.
And her parents helped me.

850
00:53:58,708 --> 00:54:02,200
I told her that I tried talking
to her about it and that's where

851
00:54:02,200 --> 00:54:05,700
the mask would come off.
And I couldn't, I couldn't, I

852
00:54:05,700 --> 00:54:10,600
couldn't convince her that she
needed to go home. and she was

853
00:54:10,608 --> 00:54:13,800
behaving like a like a little
child, throwing a tantrum and

854
00:54:14,900 --> 00:54:17,300
No, I'm I don't, I'm okay.
I don't, I'm not, I don't want

855
00:54:17,300 --> 00:54:18,300
to go home.
I don't want to go home.

856
00:54:19,800 --> 00:54:22,400
I think partially out of fear
that he was still there but I

857
00:54:22,400 --> 00:54:25,200
end up calling her parents.
I talked with them they told me

858
00:54:25,200 --> 00:54:28,700
that they've dealt with him.
I don't know exactly what that

859
00:54:28,700 --> 00:54:31,100
means today actually I'd be a
little bit worried.

860
00:54:31,100 --> 00:54:37,100
I want more information than
that today but there's some

861
00:54:37,100 --> 00:54:42,500
situations sometimes we're Look,
if the dude has an accent, dude,

862
00:54:42,500 --> 00:54:44,100
has an accident.
I don't know what to say.

863
00:54:44,108 --> 00:54:46,500
No, I want totally down with
that.

864
00:54:46,500 --> 00:54:49,700
I'd be totally down with that
look, Justin.

865
00:54:49,700 --> 00:54:53,500
There's lots of people that fall
on a knife, 7 times, it happens.

866
00:54:54,600 --> 00:54:55,600
Yeah.
Yeah.

867
00:54:55,600 --> 00:54:58,200
If I knew that happened I would
be very comfortable.

868
00:54:58,200 --> 00:55:01,200
I was more concerned that maybe
the guy went and told his Bishop

869
00:55:01,200 --> 00:55:06,300
what he had done and now he's
and now he's okay again.

870
00:55:07,200 --> 00:55:09,900
And it's dealt with it's been
dealt with.

871
00:55:09,900 --> 00:55:14,300
So like I said, today, I'd be a
lot more inquisitive on what you

872
00:55:14,300 --> 00:55:16,800
know that's been dealt with
meant Right.

873
00:55:16,800 --> 00:55:20,100
Hoping they've got some
old-fashioned Korean blood in

874
00:55:20,100 --> 00:55:23,400
them and they and they knew how
to deal with that properly.

875
00:55:24,500 --> 00:55:26,200
You don't you ever hear of
rooftop Koreans?

876
00:55:27,200 --> 00:55:30,200
You know, those Koreans, those
old school, Koreans were based.

877
00:55:31,000 --> 00:55:31,900
Right.
Right.

878
00:55:31,900 --> 00:55:33,300
Right, right?
Yeah.

879
00:55:33,300 --> 00:55:39,300
No. 100% So anyways, the reason
I'm bringing this up though is

880
00:55:39,300 --> 00:55:42,500
because she was not ready to get
married, she was not ready to

881
00:55:42,500 --> 00:55:45,400
become apparent.
I, I hope things worked out for

882
00:55:45,400 --> 00:55:47,900
her in her life that I had to.
I had to send her away.

883
00:55:48,700 --> 00:55:51,900
I had to, I had to send her
home, her parents had to had to

884
00:55:51,900 --> 00:55:57,500
take care of that because These
things can break people in ways

885
00:55:57,500 --> 00:56:01,600
that.
Take time to heal. oh, I'm just

886
00:56:01,600 --> 00:56:04,300
saying, I don't just, you don't
just get right up and and you're

887
00:56:04,300 --> 00:56:07,800
better again and and meanwhile
the life's moving life's moving

888
00:56:07,800 --> 00:56:13,400
on and so I look around the
world and, you know, you see the

889
00:56:13,400 --> 00:56:17,100
fact that this abuse The
material is just so accessible,

890
00:56:17,100 --> 00:56:20,000
it's it's being advertised at
you.

891
00:56:20,800 --> 00:56:24,100
And it just makes me not wonder
if and then you shouldn't seem

892
00:56:24,100 --> 00:56:28,200
to generation of the roadblocks
generation come out and say yeah

893
00:56:28,200 --> 00:56:31,200
we were we were we were all
being victimized and it makes me

894
00:56:31,200 --> 00:56:35,100
not wonder if that's might not
be part of the reason why people

895
00:56:35,100 --> 00:56:38,600
aren't my young people aren't
seeming to have desires to

896
00:56:38,600 --> 00:56:41,800
reproduce and and get married
and have families anymore.

897
00:56:42,900 --> 00:56:46,500
Right.
Well, it would make sense right?

898
00:56:46,500 --> 00:56:49,800
Because Look, I've never been
abused that way.

899
00:56:49,800 --> 00:56:54,500
So I wouldn't know.
But I seen it from a few people

900
00:56:54,500 --> 00:56:57,400
and both of the things that you
just described right?

901
00:56:57,400 --> 00:57:00,800
The where you're not quite an
adult, right?

902
00:57:00,800 --> 00:57:04,000
You see that quite a bit there's
something about when when that

903
00:57:04,000 --> 00:57:07,300
happens from my understanding
again never having experienced

904
00:57:07,300 --> 00:57:10,200
it.
It kind of freezes you in a

905
00:57:10,200 --> 00:57:14,000
spot.
So that when crisis or conflict

906
00:57:14,000 --> 00:57:17,500
comes up, you almost revert back
to that age in which the trauma

907
00:57:17,500 --> 00:57:21,300
happened. and then, on top of
that.

908
00:57:22,200 --> 00:57:26,900
I mean, yeah, if you've been
victimized In that way.

909
00:57:28,000 --> 00:57:31,000
If you're a young woman, it's
going to make it awfully hard to

910
00:57:31,000 --> 00:57:35,400
trust demand again.
And I could see where that would

911
00:57:35,400 --> 00:57:40,900
definitely cause problems and if
you're equating normal marital

912
00:57:40,900 --> 00:57:43,700
relations with the abuse that
you suffered, it's going to

913
00:57:43,708 --> 00:57:49,100
raise all sorts of problems.
In inside the marriage and

914
00:57:49,100 --> 00:57:52,000
inside the family.
Yeah.

915
00:57:52,000 --> 00:57:55,900
Yeah, it is and if anybody out
there is dealt with this.

916
00:57:55,900 --> 00:57:57,700
And obviously, you know, seek
help.

917
00:57:57,708 --> 00:58:02,400
There there's resources and
ultimately, I do have a

918
00:58:02,400 --> 00:58:06,600
testimony that that you can be
held to the atonement and this

919
00:58:06,600 --> 00:58:09,200
particular girlfriend I found
out you know many years later.

920
00:58:10,200 --> 00:58:15,600
did some Facebook stocking and
and It was probably like 10

921
00:58:15,600 --> 00:58:19,000
years later.
And she was newly married.

922
00:58:20,200 --> 00:58:22,800
And and was ready to move all
the lights.

923
00:58:22,808 --> 00:58:26,800
So I mean, it's not the end of
it's not the end of your life,

924
00:58:26,800 --> 00:58:30,100
but if you're struggling with
that kind of stuff, you don't

925
00:58:30,100 --> 00:58:34,300
have to keep struggling with it.
There are ways of being healed

926
00:58:34,300 --> 00:58:41,700
and reclaiming your identity.
And so, While what happened.

927
00:58:41,700 --> 00:58:45,500
Well, this stuff is really bad.
And and the effects are, are

928
00:58:45,500 --> 00:58:50,000
catastrophic a lot of times in
life, it's it's not the end.

929
00:58:51,200 --> 00:58:53,400
Right?
And it certainly wasn't in the

930
00:58:53,400 --> 00:58:56,600
case of of this fiance, this
ex-fiancee of mind.

931
00:58:57,700 --> 00:59:06,300
Right. so, Yeah, heavy topic.
Yeah, so that that's kind of

932
00:59:06,300 --> 00:59:09,200
just in the world today, right?
It's almost like people are

933
00:59:09,200 --> 00:59:12,700
being groomed in many ways for
this Behavior.

934
00:59:14,000 --> 00:59:20,500
Yeah, so normalized. and, It's
and this is where I want to go

935
00:59:20,500 --> 00:59:23,500
into the next topic.
Are you ready to raise your

936
00:59:23,500 --> 00:59:24,600
hand?
Okay.

937
00:59:24,600 --> 00:59:29,500
Yep.
Because This kind of thing is

938
00:59:29,500 --> 00:59:33,300
out there and it is normalized.
I think it's happening far more

939
00:59:33,300 --> 00:59:38,200
than we realize.
But what it is not it is not a A

940
00:59:38,200 --> 00:59:41,900
satanic cult, that's going
around abducting children, and

941
00:59:41,900 --> 00:59:45,700
doing the storm.
This is happening to the online.

942
00:59:45,700 --> 00:59:50,200
This is happening to the
Possibly in their own families

943
00:59:50,200 --> 00:59:53,800
or in their own closed circles
like it had with the woman, I

944
00:59:53,808 --> 01:00:02,700
was just speaking about. and,
but it's, it's it's I'm not

945
01:00:02,708 --> 01:00:05,300
saying that's horrifically,
sensational.

946
01:00:06,300 --> 01:00:11,600
Abuses have not happened.
However, I am concerned.

947
01:00:11,600 --> 01:00:15,200
Because another thing that I've
been seeing recently is a trend

948
01:00:15,200 --> 01:00:20,900
towards What's the best word to
describe that?

949
01:00:23,300 --> 01:00:27,400
Nearly three.
Kind of fantastic stories.

950
01:00:28,200 --> 01:00:35,000
Of abuse, right?
and, I, I think I think we need

951
01:00:35,000 --> 01:00:39,900
to talk about this a little bit
because There is somebody right

952
01:00:39,900 --> 01:00:43,500
now on YouTube.
That's heavily promoting this

953
01:00:43,500 --> 01:00:46,400
idea.
That the LDS Church.

954
01:00:47,900 --> 01:00:50,100
Has.
It's at the top.

955
01:00:50,100 --> 01:00:55,800
Leadership, levels is running
some kind of an abusive Secret

956
01:00:55,800 --> 01:01:00,400
organization that everybody's in
on, and this is happening to

957
01:01:00,400 --> 01:01:02,300
people.
I don't.

958
01:01:03,600 --> 01:01:04,800
I don't believe that's
happening.

959
01:01:04,800 --> 01:01:09,300
I think there are there is
systemic abuse cover-up.

960
01:01:10,200 --> 01:01:11,800
Maybe happening in the LDS
Church.

961
01:01:13,200 --> 01:01:17,200
But I don't believe that there
is systemic abuse happening

962
01:01:17,200 --> 01:01:18,500
there.
It's not.

963
01:01:18,500 --> 01:01:21,000
I've never you know, through all
the years I was in the LDS

964
01:01:21,000 --> 01:01:24,300
church.
I was never taught anything over

965
01:01:24,300 --> 01:01:28,200
the pulpit that would indicate
that this kind of thing is,

966
01:01:28,200 --> 01:01:35,600
okay.
Right. and, so one of these

967
01:01:35,600 --> 01:01:38,300
stories in particular, there's
something called this this the

968
01:01:38,300 --> 01:01:44,400
Hamlin case Yes.
And I did a deep dive on that

969
01:01:44,400 --> 01:01:47,400
one.
Because I had previously read a

970
01:01:47,400 --> 01:01:49,600
different book called paper
dolls.

971
01:01:51,200 --> 01:01:54,100
And it's a terrible.
It's a terrible story of the

972
01:01:54,100 --> 01:01:59,700
abuse. and, It's seems very
corroborated, nothing in there

973
01:01:59,700 --> 01:02:03,000
made me wonder like, did that
really happen?

974
01:02:03,000 --> 01:02:08,100
A lot of it seems highly
corroborated. and was giving

975
01:02:08,100 --> 01:02:13,100
with evidence and And I wondered
is this another case of that?

976
01:02:16,300 --> 01:02:20,200
so I I was I I kind of deep
dived into it and and it was

977
01:02:20,200 --> 01:02:29,200
really, really awful, but I read
the girls testimonies and, I ran

978
01:02:29,200 --> 01:02:33,600
into a bit of an issue when I
was doing that, it would be very

979
01:02:33,600 --> 01:02:37,100
easy to get carried away in the
story emotionally and just, you

980
01:02:37,100 --> 01:02:41,100
know, and Fall to Pieces.
But there's I'm a very

981
01:02:41,108 --> 01:02:43,500
analytical person, you know,
that's why I'm usually on the

982
01:02:43,500 --> 01:02:45,200
podcast.
Talking about, you know,

983
01:02:45,200 --> 01:02:50,000
deconstructing wrong things.
I mean our record.

984
01:02:50,000 --> 01:02:52,700
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
yeah.

985
01:02:52,700 --> 01:02:58,000
Well we in full disclosure right
nationalism.

986
01:02:58,000 --> 01:03:01,300
Right.
Right in full disclosure and I

987
01:03:01,308 --> 01:03:03,400
don't know.
If this is what causes you go

988
01:03:03,400 --> 01:03:06,100
down that road.
I had done a podcast with a guy

989
01:03:06,100 --> 01:03:08,800
and who shall remain nameless on
this subject.

990
01:03:09,800 --> 01:03:13,700
And about halfway through I'm
like okay there's a lot of holes

991
01:03:13,700 --> 01:03:17,700
here.
And yeah, no, it, there are so

992
01:03:17,700 --> 01:03:21,400
many of those accounts that just
they don't hold water, right?

993
01:03:21,400 --> 01:03:23,700
I mean, the timing's all off.
Yeah.

994
01:03:23,700 --> 01:03:26,400
Well, even the documents I was
giving, right?

995
01:03:26,400 --> 01:03:29,700
So he comes to me and says, I
want to do a podcast about this.

996
01:03:29,700 --> 01:03:33,200
Not like to come on your show,
And so, I'm like, sure.

997
01:03:33,200 --> 01:03:35,800
Send me over what you got and
then he didn't do it and he

998
01:03:35,808 --> 01:03:37,500
didn't do it.
Finally, he did it the day.

999
01:03:37,500 --> 01:03:39,300
That's podcast.
We're supposed to happen.

1000
01:03:40,200 --> 01:03:43,500
And the first thing I notice is
that all these quote legal

1001
01:03:43,500 --> 01:03:46,500
documents are Word documents,
right?

1002
01:03:46,500 --> 01:03:50,300
Well, look, a legal document is
never sent out as a Word

1003
01:03:50,300 --> 01:03:52,800
document.
There are always sent out as PDF

1004
01:03:52,800 --> 01:03:55,300
that have been locked down, so
you can't edit them.

1005
01:03:56,500 --> 01:03:59,600
And so right then I was like I
see what you're doing, right?

1006
01:03:59,600 --> 01:04:03,500
Like and then sure enough he
can't he is later kind of

1007
01:04:03,500 --> 01:04:09,400
exposed, as kind of, you know.
A grifter, who's locked onto

1008
01:04:09,400 --> 01:04:15,000
this and has a ax to grind with
the LDS church over plural.

1009
01:04:15,000 --> 01:04:18,200
Marriage of all things, right?
Their history with plural

1010
01:04:18,200 --> 01:04:21,000
marriage.
But yeah, I mean it's

1011
01:04:21,000 --> 01:04:24,000
sensationalism, right?
And it is Sensational.

1012
01:04:24,000 --> 01:04:26,200
That's the word I was looking
for before since sensationnel,

1013
01:04:26,200 --> 01:04:29,500
where it's just a little.
It's just seems a bridge too far

1014
01:04:29,500 --> 01:04:33,000
and when I read the accounts,
I'm like some of this just

1015
01:04:33,000 --> 01:04:36,400
doesn't add up like That's
horrible.

1016
01:04:36,400 --> 01:04:40,000
But at that actually happened to
somebody, I think they'd be

1017
01:04:40,008 --> 01:04:41,700
dead.
Right.

1018
01:04:41,700 --> 01:04:45,700
They would be dead.
This, this extreme abuse.

1019
01:04:47,500 --> 01:04:50,900
She's me and this kind of
extreme abuse was happening.

1020
01:04:55,000 --> 01:04:58,400
Hey guys, I'm in my throat.
To the degree.

1021
01:04:58,400 --> 01:05:00,600
It's being described.
I don't see how you wouldn't

1022
01:05:00,600 --> 01:05:03,400
have been permanently named and
damaged.

1023
01:05:04,200 --> 01:05:14,600
By this kind of thing.
And so, it got me questioning,

1024
01:05:14,600 --> 01:05:18,600
you know, If there are real, if
there is real abuse happening,

1025
01:05:18,600 --> 01:05:21,200
sensationalized abuse is doing
in a disservice.

1026
01:05:23,600 --> 01:05:27,400
Yep.
If you're being told that the

1027
01:05:27,400 --> 01:05:31,900
LDS church, it's a prophet of
the church is running around and

1028
01:05:31,900 --> 01:05:34,600
doing terrible.
Things to kids. then you need to

1029
01:05:34,608 --> 01:05:38,200
walk out for the leader of the
church but that doesn't tell you

1030
01:05:38,200 --> 01:05:40,800
you need to be walked what you
really need to be watching out

1031
01:05:40,800 --> 01:05:44,800
for is signs of this kind of
thing happening within, you

1032
01:05:44,800 --> 01:05:47,700
know, within the family within
people close to the family and

1033
01:05:47,700 --> 01:05:52,000
especially online.
Yep, that's where you need to be

1034
01:05:52,000 --> 01:05:55,300
focusing, your attention, not
worried that that you know the

1035
01:05:55,300 --> 01:05:57,700
president of the church is going
to show up at your house and do

1036
01:05:57,700 --> 01:05:59,100
something to your to your
children.

1037
01:06:00,500 --> 01:06:06,600
It's a false expectation.
Two when when the stories are so

1038
01:06:06,600 --> 01:06:09,600
sensationalized.
Then other stuff suddenly

1039
01:06:09,600 --> 01:06:11,000
doesn't seem as a big of a deal,
right?

1040
01:06:11,900 --> 01:06:17,100
Right. when when, when you've
got these stories of the, the

1041
01:06:17,100 --> 01:06:21,200
worst kind of Abuse.
You could that any I mean more

1042
01:06:21,200 --> 01:06:25,500
than I could have ever imagined
being described then suddenly,

1043
01:06:25,500 --> 01:06:29,600
you know, a little bit of
inappropriate touching doesn't

1044
01:06:29,600 --> 01:06:34,700
seem like, The same thing.
And that's not true and that's

1045
01:06:34,708 --> 01:06:37,300
not, that's not okay.
Right.

1046
01:06:38,300 --> 01:06:41,100
It's kind of like what, you
know, the one of the problems

1047
01:06:41,100 --> 01:06:43,300
with with with with with with
pornography?

1048
01:06:44,500 --> 01:06:48,400
When it.
There can be what you know,

1049
01:06:48,408 --> 01:06:51,400
called Soft.
Or not, right.

1050
01:06:52,300 --> 01:06:56,400
Right, you know, maybe a PG-13
movie or an R rated movie with a

1051
01:06:56,400 --> 01:07:00,400
few frames in it showing
something, but it escalates.

1052
01:07:01,200 --> 01:07:05,700
And gets more and more extreme.
And so, you've got to be able to

1053
01:07:07,100 --> 01:07:11,300
Recognize that even even if it's
not what the hamlan girls

1054
01:07:11,300 --> 01:07:15,100
reported.
It can still be abused and it

1055
01:07:15,100 --> 01:07:18,400
needs to be treated with with
that kind of with the same

1056
01:07:18,400 --> 01:07:23,600
severity. 100%, you know, and
and you brought up a good point

1057
01:07:23,600 --> 01:07:25,800
that I think it's worth bearing
out here.

1058
01:07:27,100 --> 01:07:30,700
Is that people who get wrapped
up in this into this stuff?

1059
01:07:30,700 --> 01:07:36,300
They usually it usually doesn't
start like you said it's more

1060
01:07:36,300 --> 01:07:38,300
soft than anything else.
Right?

1061
01:07:38,300 --> 01:07:42,300
But because it creates a
dopamine hit in the brain.

1062
01:07:45,200 --> 01:07:47,800
Your tolerance will go up,
right?

1063
01:07:47,800 --> 01:07:50,700
It's every bit as addictive as
any other substance out there

1064
01:07:50,700 --> 01:07:54,600
and this is important to
understand that.

1065
01:07:55,500 --> 01:07:59,100
You.
It's not really as easy as just

1066
01:07:59,100 --> 01:08:01,100
like, oh well boys will be boys,
right?

1067
01:08:01,100 --> 01:08:04,800
No, this in this.
This goes much deeper than that.

1068
01:08:04,800 --> 01:08:07,800
And it has, it affects your
brain chemistry.

1069
01:08:07,800 --> 01:08:11,300
It affects how you look.
At women in general.

1070
01:08:11,300 --> 01:08:13,900
It's it's bad stuff.
Right, right?

1071
01:08:13,900 --> 01:08:19,100
And so even just a little bit of
inappropriate touching Which

1072
01:08:19,100 --> 01:08:23,300
maybe to the child wasn't
registered as, as directly

1073
01:08:23,300 --> 01:08:25,399
abusive right there in the
moment, it could still be

1074
01:08:25,399 --> 01:08:27,700
registered as abusive when
they're adult and they can put

1075
01:08:27,700 --> 01:08:31,899
that into contacts and she just
as if it had happened to them as

1076
01:08:31,899 --> 01:08:36,700
a adult but it also can be a
sign of bigger things happening

1077
01:08:36,700 --> 01:08:38,800
too.
For things happening.

1078
01:08:40,800 --> 01:08:46,200
So, but again with with some of
these Sensational stories, I

1079
01:08:46,200 --> 01:08:49,800
like I said I I think that
there's probably a high

1080
01:08:49,800 --> 01:08:53,300
likelihood that these hamlan
girls probably were abused.

1081
01:08:54,200 --> 01:08:58,200
But these stories don't make
sense.

1082
01:08:58,200 --> 01:09:02,700
They don't add up, they have
parts of them that are

1083
01:09:02,700 --> 01:09:08,899
inconsistent. that are directly
contradictory and and and there

1084
01:09:08,899 --> 01:09:11,399
should be like physical evidence
that anybody could go and

1085
01:09:11,399 --> 01:09:15,200
reclaim right now based off of
some of these things that

1086
01:09:15,200 --> 01:09:18,200
shouldn't be that hard.
This is we could we could prove

1087
01:09:18,200 --> 01:09:22,100
we could factually prove this
these stories and yet I haven't

1088
01:09:22,100 --> 01:09:24,399
heard any evidence come out that
they've been factually proven.

1089
01:09:25,899 --> 01:09:28,800
Which leads me to have some
doubts.

1090
01:09:29,899 --> 01:09:34,200
And write what I started going
down another rabbit hole with

1091
01:09:34,200 --> 01:09:36,700
this and this is the topic of
repressed memories.

1092
01:09:39,600 --> 01:09:41,500
Now.
I had.

1093
01:09:42,899 --> 01:09:45,300
I guess to a certain degree
grown up just thinking of this

1094
01:09:45,300 --> 01:09:49,899
was a real thing.
That repressed memories were a

1095
01:09:49,899 --> 01:09:52,000
real thing.
Why?

1096
01:09:52,000 --> 01:09:55,900
Well mostly because of the media
actually write the Books, the

1097
01:09:55,900 --> 01:09:59,100
TV, the movies, you see these
themes come up, right?

1098
01:09:59,100 --> 01:10:02,300
And then you hear these you hear
cases and stories.

1099
01:10:02,300 --> 01:10:05,700
And there's people there's
psychologists with phds that,

1100
01:10:05,700 --> 01:10:10,100
that believe in this stuff.
So, surely, this must be a real

1101
01:10:10,100 --> 01:10:14,100
thing.
And the explanation for it.

1102
01:10:14,100 --> 01:10:18,100
Kind of makes sense too.
In a way. but I did a deep dive

1103
01:10:18,100 --> 01:10:22,400
and I want to share some of this
research by this doctor Lauren's

1104
01:10:23,900 --> 01:10:27,200
Patisse.
Let me Grant you permission

1105
01:10:27,200 --> 01:10:29,100
here.
I don't have a screenshot.

1106
01:10:29,100 --> 01:10:32,800
I'm just gonna oh okay.
I would I would, you know,

1107
01:10:32,808 --> 01:10:35,200
anybody who's interested though?
He's on YouTube, you can look

1108
01:10:35,200 --> 01:10:38,200
him up, he's got all kinds of
content where he talks about.

1109
01:10:39,700 --> 01:10:43,500
well, he's a professor of
psychology and so he's got a lot

1110
01:10:43,500 --> 01:10:46,900
of content in Psychology in
general, which is a topic I find

1111
01:10:46,900 --> 01:10:52,400
interesting and fascinating
anyways, but this one, some of

1112
01:10:52,408 --> 01:10:54,700
this stuff here really blew me
away and I think people need to

1113
01:10:54,700 --> 01:10:59,400
know about this because in order
to prevent abuse we need to

1114
01:10:59,400 --> 01:11:02,100
understand what it is.
We also need to understand what

1115
01:11:02,100 --> 01:11:05,400
it isn't.
We got to have some tools to to

1116
01:11:05,400 --> 01:11:08,900
be able to evaluate this and
repressed memories.

1117
01:11:09,800 --> 01:11:13,000
Is a bit of a can of worms turns
out.

1118
01:11:13,000 --> 01:11:15,900
So the history, excuse me, the
history.

1119
01:11:16,700 --> 01:11:19,000
Of this actually begins with
hypnotism.

1120
01:11:20,700 --> 01:11:24,100
Yep.
Well, so Freud had some ideas

1121
01:11:24,100 --> 01:11:28,500
that that, you know, pathology
and adults psychological,

1122
01:11:28,500 --> 01:11:32,000
pathology and adults is caused
by traumatic experiences in

1123
01:11:32,000 --> 01:11:36,200
childhood, right?
And this is kind of was a common

1124
01:11:36,200 --> 01:11:39,800
idea and what they notice is the
psychologist for started to play

1125
01:11:39,800 --> 01:11:42,900
around with hypnotism, is that
people had lost time in

1126
01:11:42,908 --> 01:11:49,200
hypnotism. so, if you hypnotized
During that time when you're hit

1127
01:11:49,200 --> 01:11:52,000
the ties and when you come out,
you tend to not remember.

1128
01:11:54,200 --> 01:11:56,700
Which lead to some questions of.
Okay.

1129
01:11:56,700 --> 01:12:00,200
So if you can have lost time
within noises, can you have

1130
01:12:00,200 --> 01:12:06,900
maybe lost time within trauma?
Around this time.

1131
01:12:06,900 --> 01:12:10,800
Also, though it was all observed
that through hypnosis it was

1132
01:12:10,800 --> 01:12:15,200
possible to transmit.
False memories.

1133
01:12:16,400 --> 01:12:21,400
Through hypnosis.
Nonetheless, that people who did

1134
01:12:21,400 --> 01:12:24,100
that same research were still
leaning towards this idea that

1135
01:12:24,100 --> 01:12:28,900
they think that that trauma
would leave to a susceptibility.

1136
01:12:29,900 --> 01:12:33,500
Of disassociation.
And it may be as important to

1137
01:12:33,500 --> 01:12:35,200
talk about disassociation a
little bit.

1138
01:12:35,200 --> 01:12:39,700
This Association is not
necessarily a full-blown

1139
01:12:39,700 --> 01:12:45,300
multiple personalities, kind of
a thing disassociation.

1140
01:12:45,300 --> 01:12:49,900
Is can be, it can be not
remembering something, not like

1141
01:12:49,900 --> 01:12:52,600
I'm not talking about repressed
memory of just not remembering

1142
01:12:52,600 --> 01:12:54,700
like I'm here right now.
What was?

1143
01:12:54,700 --> 01:12:56,900
I do an earlier today.
I can't really remember.

1144
01:12:58,000 --> 01:13:00,300
What I was doing and I don't
feel like I'm myself.

1145
01:13:00,300 --> 01:13:02,000
I feel like, I don't know who I
am.

1146
01:13:02,000 --> 01:13:04,000
I feel fragmented.
I feel ungrounded.

1147
01:13:04,000 --> 01:13:07,400
I I'm feeling up in the air and
lost.

1148
01:13:07,400 --> 01:13:10,800
That these are that that's
disassociation, right?

1149
01:13:11,900 --> 01:13:17,400
Right disassociated, just
identity disorder is actually

1150
01:13:17,400 --> 01:13:23,300
also a contested Theory. in
Psychology not everybody, not

1151
01:13:23,300 --> 01:13:26,300
everybody agrees that that
actually happens where you have

1152
01:13:26,300 --> 01:13:33,200
flip a switch and personalities
change but nonetheless, There

1153
01:13:33,200 --> 01:13:35,800
was a belief that made me trauma
through the not hit, you know,

1154
01:13:35,800 --> 01:13:39,000
because of this experimentation
experimenting with a delicious.

1155
01:13:39,000 --> 01:13:41,700
They started thinking maybe
trauma can lead to a

1156
01:13:41,700 --> 01:13:43,100
susceptibility of
disassociation.

1157
01:13:44,200 --> 01:13:47,500
And then Freud just came out and
said it that he thought that

1158
01:13:47,500 --> 01:13:49,500
trauma would lead to repressed
memories.

1159
01:13:50,400 --> 01:13:54,000
He did walk that back a bit
later in his life.

1160
01:13:55,500 --> 01:14:01,400
But nonetheless, it kind of
stuck at that point. and so, But

1161
01:14:01,400 --> 01:14:04,700
so, this was the early Research
into repressed memories.

1162
01:14:04,700 --> 01:14:07,900
And it's important to understand
though that this was not done

1163
01:14:07,900 --> 01:14:12,100
with scientific Burger.
These were basically anecdotal

1164
01:14:12,100 --> 01:14:14,600
stories, you know, researchers
would run their little

1165
01:14:14,600 --> 01:14:16,300
experience.
These are not clinical trials.

1166
01:14:16,300 --> 01:14:19,500
They were doing, they were
working with Disturbed people

1167
01:14:19,500 --> 01:14:23,300
and experimenting.
And seeing what happens?

1168
01:14:24,600 --> 01:14:29,300
and, That's where that that's
kind of the origins of where

1169
01:14:29,300 --> 01:14:32,400
this idea that were pressed.
Memories are a thing comes from.

1170
01:14:32,400 --> 01:14:35,400
And so the repressed memory idea
would be that you'd had a trump

1171
01:14:35,400 --> 01:14:38,200
in the past.
It's so great that you you

1172
01:14:38,200 --> 01:14:40,900
successfully stored in your
mind.

1173
01:14:42,200 --> 01:14:46,100
But it's put somewhere where
your mind can't access it and it

1174
01:14:46,100 --> 01:14:51,800
causes later.
Problems in life because it's

1175
01:14:51,800 --> 01:14:58,100
still there, but you can't see
it. and so, you know, Well,

1176
01:14:58,100 --> 01:14:59,700
okay, let me keep going with
this though.

1177
01:14:59,700 --> 01:15:03,200
So, there was some research done
by a man in Harrison Pope in

1178
01:15:03,200 --> 01:15:06,200
2007.
And he had this question about.

1179
01:15:07,500 --> 01:15:11,100
Their in Psychology, they have
something called culture bound

1180
01:15:11,100 --> 01:15:14,900
syndrome. and this is something
that is, it's not like a

1181
01:15:14,900 --> 01:15:21,400
psychological disease per se And
that's inherent to human kind.

1182
01:15:22,300 --> 01:15:26,800
It is something that is specific
to a specific culture Place.

1183
01:15:26,800 --> 01:15:30,500
Something that seems to be more.
Man-made.

1184
01:15:30,500 --> 01:15:34,500
So, you know, like sex is
biological, right?

1185
01:15:34,500 --> 01:15:38,900
You're male and your female
that's actually it's very, very

1186
01:15:38,900 --> 01:15:41,800
clear cut.
But you know how, you know, how

1187
01:15:41,800 --> 01:15:45,700
the how the how the rainbow
Brigade likes to say that the

1188
01:15:45,700 --> 01:15:53,700
gender is a spectrum, right?
Well, our cultural construct,

1189
01:15:53,700 --> 01:15:58,500
well, there is actually Some
legitimacy that.

1190
01:15:59,500 --> 01:16:02,800
Certain mental illnesses can be
a cultural construct.

1191
01:16:04,800 --> 01:16:06,900
Which I actually find
fascinating.

1192
01:16:06,900 --> 01:16:12,200
Given the Surprising rise in a
lot of things that were once

1193
01:16:12,200 --> 01:16:15,600
considered psychological
pathologies like homosexuality

1194
01:16:15,600 --> 01:16:18,600
and transgender or gender
dysphoria, right?

1195
01:16:18,600 --> 01:16:22,400
Right.
There is precedence in the field

1196
01:16:22,400 --> 01:16:26,100
of psychology that there can be
cultures that creates

1197
01:16:26,100 --> 01:16:29,900
psychological illnesses.
And that reinforced them in that

1198
01:16:29,900 --> 01:16:32,100
increase them.
So this is called a culture

1199
01:16:32,100 --> 01:16:37,100
bound syndrome.
Probably the most well known in

1200
01:16:37,100 --> 01:16:40,900
America would be this old.
The old idea of hysterics in

1201
01:16:40,900 --> 01:16:44,000
women Right.
Mm-hmm.

1202
01:16:44,000 --> 01:16:48,400
Which in reality was a whole
bunch of different things, but

1203
01:16:48,400 --> 01:16:51,700
it kind of got all pushed into
this one label.

1204
01:16:52,500 --> 01:16:55,500
And it's something that women
suffer with.

1205
01:16:55,500 --> 01:16:57,200
It's not a human thing.
It's a woman thing.

1206
01:16:58,000 --> 01:17:03,600
And it's and it's only a woman
thing because of their female

1207
01:17:03,600 --> 01:17:07,900
biology, right?
And that became a standard

1208
01:17:07,900 --> 01:17:12,800
belief and And a commonly in the
common Collective conscience.

1209
01:17:12,800 --> 01:17:16,300
This was a real thing, everybody
really believed it and it would

1210
01:17:16,300 --> 01:17:22,100
manifest but it kind of what we
know now is kind of manifesting

1211
01:17:22,100 --> 01:17:28,900
because everybody believed in it
so the question came up is our

1212
01:17:28,900 --> 01:17:32,700
repressed memories real or is
it?

1213
01:17:32,700 --> 01:17:35,400
I mean it is a real phenomenon,
right?

1214
01:17:35,400 --> 01:17:39,500
But is this a phenomena that's
that's General to human

1215
01:17:39,500 --> 01:17:41,600
existence or is this a cultural
thing?

1216
01:17:43,000 --> 01:17:46,900
And what he did was, he did a
study to study and he went

1217
01:17:46,900 --> 01:17:51,600
through all the stories,
literature writings books in the

1218
01:17:51,608 --> 01:17:53,900
past.
And he found something really

1219
01:17:53,900 --> 01:17:59,100
fascinating.
There is so for something like,

1220
01:17:59,100 --> 01:18:02,800
schizophrenia.
We've got schizophrenia today.

1221
01:18:03,900 --> 01:18:05,800
Did we have schizophrenia in the
past?

1222
01:18:07,400 --> 01:18:10,500
Absolutely.
You can find it there, you can

1223
01:18:10,500 --> 01:18:17,100
find the exact same things being
described by the Greeks. 1000s

1224
01:18:17,100 --> 01:18:19,000
of years ago, right?
So we know that.

1225
01:18:19,000 --> 01:18:21,500
Okay, they saw this.
They talked about it.

1226
01:18:21,500 --> 01:18:23,900
They would write about it.
We can find schizophrenia.

1227
01:18:23,900 --> 01:18:26,800
It's a real thing.
Can we find?

1228
01:18:27,800 --> 01:18:33,000
Repressed memories.
In the literature, in the past

1229
01:18:33,000 --> 01:18:34,600
in the history?
Is this a real?

1230
01:18:34,608 --> 01:18:37,300
Is this a real thing?
What he, what he found is that

1231
01:18:37,300 --> 01:18:44,700
it it begins with hypnotism.
And you can't really find this.

1232
01:18:45,600 --> 01:18:50,100
Phenomena in the past.
Which would lead Credence to get

1233
01:18:50,100 --> 01:18:52,200
and this could be what we call,
like said, what what's called A

1234
01:18:52,200 --> 01:18:57,700
culture-bound syndrome?
Not an actual reality, but

1235
01:18:57,700 --> 01:19:02,200
something that just becomes
trendy and then somehow

1236
01:19:02,200 --> 01:19:08,500
normalizes Behavior.
That normally wouldn't be

1237
01:19:08,500 --> 01:19:10,400
happening, right?
So like with gender dysphoria,

1238
01:19:11,400 --> 01:19:14,300
everybody's convinced that they
got gender dysphoria that they

1239
01:19:14,300 --> 01:19:16,300
were born in the wrong bodies
today.

1240
01:19:16,300 --> 01:19:18,500
Right?
There are very few people

1241
01:19:18,500 --> 01:19:22,500
claiming that in the past.
They're still worth some, but

1242
01:19:22,500 --> 01:19:25,300
there were very few while all
the sudden today, it's an

1243
01:19:25,300 --> 01:19:26,800
epidemic.
What happened did?

1244
01:19:26,800 --> 01:19:29,800
God did God forget which body's
going?

1245
01:19:29,800 --> 01:19:34,900
Which bodies you leave for one
coffee break.

1246
01:19:34,900 --> 01:19:40,500
Yeah. you left Metatron in
charge for 10 minutes and

1247
01:19:43,000 --> 01:19:45,000
exactly.
Yeah.

1248
01:19:45,000 --> 01:19:48,500
All right.
So there's I would argue that

1249
01:19:48,500 --> 01:19:50,800
there's evidence that you know,
gender dysphoria is another

1250
01:19:50,800 --> 01:19:55,700
maybe culture bound syndrome but
regardless it's important to

1251
01:19:55,700 --> 01:19:59,200
understand that this is a new
thing and this newness of it

1252
01:19:59,200 --> 01:20:02,700
happens to directly coincide
with the rise of research into

1253
01:20:02,700 --> 01:20:06,000
hypnotism.
And directly.

1254
01:20:08,700 --> 01:20:12,200
And the evidence is of it to
directly support the hypothesis

1255
01:20:12,200 --> 01:20:14,700
of the day.
That trauma could.

1256
01:20:14,700 --> 01:20:17,100
Cause repressed, memories and
then lo and behold, they start

1257
01:20:17,100 --> 01:20:21,600
finding people for us memories.
And it becomes a thing.

1258
01:20:21,600 --> 01:20:25,200
So you know you gotta wear some
you gotta you gotta do some

1259
01:20:25,208 --> 01:20:29,400
critical thinking here.
The other important thing is

1260
01:20:29,400 --> 01:20:32,600
some of these early case studies
are are pretty interesting.

1261
01:20:32,600 --> 01:20:36,500
One of the, most one of the
earliest here is was a 1980 book

1262
01:20:36,500 --> 01:20:42,800
written by.
Or written by the title of books

1263
01:20:42,800 --> 01:20:48,400
called Michelle remembers.
And she describes as an adult.

1264
01:20:49,400 --> 01:20:53,000
suddenly, you know, seeing a
therapist and suddenly having

1265
01:20:53,000 --> 01:20:58,100
all these memories of horrific
Like a lot like the Hamlin's

1266
01:20:58,100 --> 01:21:02,600
sister stories, abuse.
SRA, right?

1267
01:21:02,600 --> 01:21:09,600
This is a satanic virtual abuse
accounts. and this book kind of

1268
01:21:10,500 --> 01:21:12,100
Catches fire, it becomes
interesting.

1269
01:21:12,100 --> 01:21:15,900
It brings this topic to the to
the awareness of the cultural at

1270
01:21:15,900 --> 01:21:19,100
Large.
Um, but the interesting thing

1271
01:21:19,100 --> 01:21:22,900
is, there's some problems with
the book too. because she

1272
01:21:22,900 --> 01:21:26,400
actually describes Satan
literally being Satan summoned

1273
01:21:26,400 --> 01:21:31,300
in some of these ceremonies and,
She says that she forgot because

1274
01:21:31,300 --> 01:21:35,000
because Satan had made her
forget until the time would be

1275
01:21:35,000 --> 01:21:37,900
right.
That some of this horrific abuse

1276
01:21:37,900 --> 01:21:40,300
that would have normally left
scars on them on the body.

1277
01:21:41,000 --> 01:21:44,000
Well, he used his magic and made
the scars go away.

1278
01:21:48,400 --> 01:21:52,300
So I'm not saying that there's
that Michelle this Michelle

1279
01:21:52,300 --> 01:21:56,000
clearly wasn't you know
Disturbed and I don't mean that

1280
01:21:56,000 --> 01:21:57,800
in a judgmental way.
I just mean that like, you know,

1281
01:21:57,800 --> 01:22:01,000
she's she's got she's got
something she's struggling with

1282
01:22:01,000 --> 01:22:03,400
right and it might be very real
to her.

1283
01:22:05,200 --> 01:22:07,400
But I don't think that really
happened, right?

1284
01:22:07,400 --> 01:22:11,300
Which would suggest that what
she's recalling might not be

1285
01:22:11,300 --> 01:22:14,300
true.
Or at least not, I might not be

1286
01:22:14,300 --> 01:22:20,600
completely true.
Oh, The yeah, yeah, you got

1287
01:22:20,600 --> 01:22:24,400
something.
You know, I, I do want to ask

1288
01:22:24,400 --> 01:22:27,400
this question.
I can think of one person did.

1289
01:22:27,400 --> 01:22:32,300
I know personally who said that?
They did have a memory called

1290
01:22:32,300 --> 01:22:34,000
not through, not through hip
noises?

1291
01:22:34,800 --> 01:22:38,700
But it was the oddest thing that
set them that that brought it to

1292
01:22:38,700 --> 01:22:45,600
the Forefront again. and when
the perpetrator was, Asked about

1293
01:22:45,600 --> 01:22:48,100
it.
I can't remember if this person

1294
01:22:48,100 --> 01:22:51,100
actually said, yeah, I've been
doing it or other victims.

1295
01:22:51,800 --> 01:22:54,100
Kind of said, oh yeah, no, he
did that to me, too.

1296
01:22:54,100 --> 01:22:58,700
It was all within a family.
At some point, he does admit it

1297
01:22:58,700 --> 01:23:04,400
to what he's done.
And so like where would that fit

1298
01:23:04,400 --> 01:23:06,000
in?
Right.

1299
01:23:06,000 --> 01:23:12,400
Well, I hadn't quite gotten to
that, but basically that's just

1300
01:23:12,400 --> 01:23:17,100
a that's just a memory.
That you didn't retrieve for a

1301
01:23:17,100 --> 01:23:18,800
long time.
That was just sitting there.

1302
01:23:18,800 --> 01:23:21,200
Okay.
It's not it's not sealed off if

1303
01:23:21,200 --> 01:23:25,500
she had tried to remember She
would have remembered.

1304
01:23:25,500 --> 01:23:27,800
Now what were repressed?
Memories are that the hypothesis

1305
01:23:27,800 --> 01:23:29,600
round or press memory is your
brain?

1306
01:23:29,600 --> 01:23:32,000
Won't allow you to go to those
memories?

1307
01:23:33,100 --> 01:23:36,000
Right.
Um, that's a little bit

1308
01:23:36,000 --> 01:23:39,800
different.
Than A Memory that you just have

1309
01:23:39,800 --> 01:23:43,800
a thought of in a long time.
Like, for example, I was

1310
01:23:43,800 --> 01:23:47,308
recently, I saw somebody posting
on about books and it made me

1311
01:23:47,316 --> 01:23:48,808
think about stuff.
I read as a kid.

1312
01:23:49,800 --> 01:23:54,300
And I had this, I remember, and
I just this meant just today for

1313
01:23:54,300 --> 01:23:57,100
the first time, since I was
maybe like, maybe 10 years old.

1314
01:23:58,500 --> 01:24:00,500
Or even young girl.
I don't even know how old I was.

1315
01:24:00,508 --> 01:24:04,100
I have this memory where I was
reading a book and it was a

1316
01:24:04,100 --> 01:24:07,200
fantasy novel and this guy gets
injured and his friends make a

1317
01:24:07,200 --> 01:24:11,400
litter for him.
And my 10 year old brain is

1318
01:24:11,400 --> 01:24:14,200
thinking a litter.
That's what you call a bunch of

1319
01:24:14,200 --> 01:24:18,300
baby puppies.
Right?

1320
01:24:18,300 --> 01:24:22,500
And being really confused about
the story at that point.

1321
01:24:23,900 --> 01:24:27,000
Right, I hadn't thought of that.
Since I remember being confused

1322
01:24:27,000 --> 01:24:31,100
about it as a kid.
Was that a repressed memory

1323
01:24:31,100 --> 01:24:32,500
though?
Or is it just something that I

1324
01:24:32,500 --> 01:24:35,800
hadn't thought of because
nothing has triggered it until I

1325
01:24:35,800 --> 01:24:39,100
decided like, oh, what do I
remember about reading as a kid?

1326
01:24:40,400 --> 01:24:43,200
And then, when I thought about
that, oh, I remember that.

1327
01:24:43,200 --> 01:24:45,600
I remember a couple of other
things, too, that came to mind,

1328
01:24:45,600 --> 01:24:47,300
right.
You got you.

1329
01:24:47,300 --> 01:24:49,700
Yep.
So that's a little bit real

1330
01:24:49,700 --> 01:24:54,500
phenomenon but not quite not
quite the same thing, not quite

1331
01:24:54,500 --> 01:24:57,700
the same thing that would need
hypnosis to bring those to the

1332
01:24:57,708 --> 01:25:03,000
Forefront, right?
And or, you know, therapist

1333
01:25:03,000 --> 01:25:05,700
intervention to bring up for it,
right?

1334
01:25:06,700 --> 01:25:10,400
And that's where, you know,
another one of the big case, big

1335
01:25:10,400 --> 01:25:14,000
case studies for this was the
Nick Martin preschool trial of

1336
01:25:14,008 --> 01:25:19,100
1984.
And this is a trial that lasted

1337
01:25:19,100 --> 01:25:22,700
six years.
Had no convictions.

1338
01:25:23,400 --> 01:25:27,100
And was the longest most
expensive trial in the country

1339
01:25:27,100 --> 01:25:30,300
at the time.
Oh yeah.

1340
01:25:30,300 --> 01:25:34,000
So this was a big deal.
And what happened were was the

1341
01:25:34,000 --> 01:25:36,400
students were being interviewed
from this preschool.

1342
01:25:38,000 --> 01:25:45,400
And there were, I think there
was 600 300 362 children.

1343
01:25:46,700 --> 01:25:48,000
Were claiming to have been
abused.

1344
01:25:49,800 --> 01:25:54,100
Whoa.
That's a lot.

1345
01:25:55,100 --> 01:26:00,400
That's a big number, right?
so, Surely with that many

1346
01:26:00,400 --> 01:26:01,500
victims.
They got him.

1347
01:26:01,500 --> 01:26:04,600
They got the bad guy, right?
No, no conviction.

1348
01:26:05,900 --> 01:26:10,700
No conviction in the end.
So here there's some things that

1349
01:26:10,700 --> 01:26:12,600
need to be understood the
students were being interviewed.

1350
01:26:13,600 --> 01:26:20,300
With highly suggestive
instructions. um, so they're

1351
01:26:20,300 --> 01:26:24,800
pulling these kids aside and
saying asking them to literally

1352
01:26:27,300 --> 01:26:33,100
imagine.
They were being guided to

1353
01:26:33,100 --> 01:26:39,900
imagine things. and, some of the
stories that they came up with

1354
01:26:39,900 --> 01:26:45,600
included things like secret
tunnels under the preschool, It

1355
01:26:45,600 --> 01:26:48,200
included, things like some of
the abusers, having the ability

1356
01:26:48,200 --> 01:26:52,900
to fly around.
And, and then also toilets, that

1357
01:26:52,900 --> 01:26:56,700
would flush children down into
secret rooms where they would be

1358
01:26:56,700 --> 01:26:59,400
abused, but then cleaned up
before their parents arrived.

1359
01:27:01,500 --> 01:27:07,400
Oh, so again, right like Clearly
that didn't.

1360
01:27:07,400 --> 01:27:09,300
Yeah.
Yeah.

1361
01:27:09,300 --> 01:27:11,000
No one gets flushed down a
toilet.

1362
01:27:11,000 --> 01:27:17,900
Yeah he got to be pretty small
to fit. so, The initial

1363
01:27:17,900 --> 01:27:21,700
allegations, they were all they
were all fantastic, right?

1364
01:27:21,700 --> 01:27:24,400
And then down years later, one
of the victims actually came

1365
01:27:24,400 --> 01:27:26,600
forward and retracted their
statement and said that they

1366
01:27:26,600 --> 01:27:30,700
lied. here, they lied because
the interviewers would ask

1367
01:27:30,708 --> 01:27:33,100
questions again, if they didn't
get the answer they wanted,

1368
01:27:34,400 --> 01:27:36,700
Right.
And then they started being

1369
01:27:36,700 --> 01:27:40,200
rewarded when they gave the
answers that they did want to

1370
01:27:40,200 --> 01:27:43,800
hear.
And They thought bad to a little

1371
01:27:43,808 --> 01:27:46,000
bit degree that they were
relying and making things up,

1372
01:27:46,000 --> 01:27:49,100
but they thought like it was
okay because well everybody was,

1373
01:27:49,100 --> 01:27:53,700
it was being encouraged and so
it was George by an authority

1374
01:27:53,700 --> 01:27:57,300
figure right now.
I'm gonna say something here.

1375
01:27:58,000 --> 01:28:00,200
That's abusive.
Yeah.

1376
01:28:00,200 --> 01:28:05,000
To take a child, sit him down
and make them Make up.

1377
01:28:05,900 --> 01:28:09,300
An abuse of a story of them
being abused.

1378
01:28:10,400 --> 01:28:13,500
That's abuse.
Yeah, that's abuse in and of

1379
01:28:13,508 --> 01:28:17,200
itself.
They're worth 360 children

1380
01:28:17,200 --> 01:28:20,100
victims but they're not victims
of the preschool.

1381
01:28:21,300 --> 01:28:23,600
Right.
They were victims of this

1382
01:28:23,600 --> 01:28:27,500
system.
That pulled them all aside and

1383
01:28:27,500 --> 01:28:30,600
told them that they had been
victims and to make up stories.

1384
01:28:32,100 --> 01:28:39,300
Right. so, One last thing here
is there's a, there's a into

1385
01:28:39,300 --> 01:28:40,500
bringing this.
Why?

1386
01:28:40,500 --> 01:28:42,500
Why do we all believe that?
Repressed memories are a thing.

1387
01:28:43,200 --> 01:28:46,200
There's a book published in
1988.

1388
01:28:47,200 --> 01:28:51,400
Called courage to heal.
The authors have no formal

1389
01:28:51,400 --> 01:28:57,800
training in psychology. it was a
bestseller, and it was Found to

1390
01:28:57,800 --> 01:29:01,000
be the leading cause of false
allegations of child abuse.

1391
01:29:01,800 --> 01:29:04,500
In its day.
Where are they verified?

1392
01:29:04,500 --> 01:29:09,200
That no abuse did happen.
But allegations were made in

1393
01:29:09,200 --> 01:29:11,500
response to people reading this
book.

1394
01:29:12,900 --> 01:29:16,800
And it it brings up a really
important thing that we need to

1395
01:29:16,800 --> 01:29:19,000
understand when we were, when
we're evaluating this kind of

1396
01:29:19,008 --> 01:29:25,400
stuff, just like in here.
Which is the scientific process.

1397
01:29:26,300 --> 01:29:28,700
And I want to kind of cut into
the science here real quick

1398
01:29:28,708 --> 01:29:33,900
before we change topics.
So, This book courage to heal

1399
01:29:33,900 --> 01:29:38,100
has a big list of symptoms.
That might indicate that you

1400
01:29:38,100 --> 01:29:43,100
have a repressed memory.
Of abuse that's affecting your

1401
01:29:43,100 --> 01:29:45,000
life today.
I want to go over some of these

1402
01:29:45,000 --> 01:29:49,400
effects, okay?
Deep-seated, shame guilt or

1403
01:29:49,400 --> 01:29:53,100
self-blame.
Depression and anxiety.

1404
01:29:54,900 --> 01:29:58,500
Fear.
Self-hatred and lowest

1405
01:29:58,500 --> 01:30:00,700
self-esteem.
Anger.

1406
01:30:02,000 --> 01:30:06,900
Difficulty managing emotions.
Disassociation and numbness.

1407
01:30:08,100 --> 01:30:12,400
Addiction and self-harm.
Nightmares and flashbacks.

1408
01:30:13,600 --> 01:30:16,700
Sexual issues.
Self-sabotage.

1409
01:30:17,900 --> 01:30:20,700
Trust issues.
People pleasing.

1410
01:30:22,000 --> 01:30:27,800
Strained relationships.
Isolation. so I want to do an

1411
01:30:27,800 --> 01:30:31,000
experiment here, we're not going
to see it but anybody that falls

1412
01:30:31,000 --> 01:30:33,500
into one of those categories,
raise your hand.

1413
01:30:35,000 --> 01:30:37,100
Right.
I'm listening to the audience.

1414
01:30:37,100 --> 01:30:41,500
Raise your raise, their hands.
Okay, we are all.

1415
01:30:42,700 --> 01:30:44,900
Possibly.
Victims.

1416
01:30:45,900 --> 01:30:48,200
Of traumatic abuse in our
childhood, and we've repressed

1417
01:30:48,200 --> 01:30:51,500
the memories.
If we use that standard, if

1418
01:30:51,500 --> 01:30:54,600
that's the standard.
So I want to talk about science

1419
01:30:54,600 --> 01:30:58,900
science, when you propose a
hypothesis in science, it has to

1420
01:30:58,900 --> 01:31:03,800
be falsifiable So what that
means is, let's say that I have

1421
01:31:03,800 --> 01:31:07,500
a hypothesis.
Trauma in early childhood will

1422
01:31:07,500 --> 01:31:10,900
directly lead to psychological
pathology as an adult.

1423
01:31:11,900 --> 01:31:13,900
Mm-hmm.
Okay, that's my hypothesis.

1424
01:31:15,400 --> 01:31:19,300
Can we measure this?
Yeah, we can write.

1425
01:31:20,200 --> 01:31:23,400
Let's, let's find people who had
trauma and their childhood.

1426
01:31:24,200 --> 01:31:26,400
And let's see how many of them
as adults have issues.

1427
01:31:27,400 --> 01:31:29,900
Let's find adults who have
issues and see how many of them

1428
01:31:29,900 --> 01:31:31,600
had traumatic events in their
childhood.

1429
01:31:32,400 --> 01:31:35,200
We can measure this, we can, we
can do research on this.

1430
01:31:35,200 --> 01:31:37,400
We can figure out what these
correlations are.

1431
01:31:37,400 --> 01:31:40,400
If there is a correlation and
how strong of a correlation, it

1432
01:31:40,400 --> 01:31:42,700
is the nuances of the
correlation.

1433
01:31:42,700 --> 01:31:45,100
We can do real research with a
question like that, right?

1434
01:31:47,800 --> 01:31:51,700
But what if what if our
definition of trauma?

1435
01:31:51,700 --> 01:31:56,900
I mean, if our definition of a
psychological pathology becomes,

1436
01:31:59,700 --> 01:32:03,300
Anything wrong with you,
emotionally physically or

1437
01:32:03,300 --> 01:32:09,800
relationally?
there's so many problems with

1438
01:32:09,800 --> 01:32:16,200
that, because Look.
Sometimes you are an actual

1439
01:32:16,200 --> 01:32:18,600
victim of something.
Right.

1440
01:32:20,800 --> 01:32:25,700
But you can't stay there.
And let me explain this at some

1441
01:32:25,700 --> 01:32:30,500
point.
You have to kind of try to own

1442
01:32:30,500 --> 01:32:34,200
it for lack of a better word
because it's only once you own

1443
01:32:34,200 --> 01:32:40,400
it that you can start to fix it.
and so by by assigning all these

1444
01:32:40,400 --> 01:32:44,200
things to people you're making
them in the into the victim

1445
01:32:44,200 --> 01:32:47,900
instead of somebody who's
responsible now and can say

1446
01:32:48,700 --> 01:32:50,200
Okay.
Is this okay?

1447
01:32:50,200 --> 01:32:53,700
This depression I have.
Can I do something about it,

1448
01:32:53,700 --> 01:32:56,500
right?
If you're a victim and you

1449
01:32:56,500 --> 01:33:00,600
choose to stay in the victim
role, You're never going to

1450
01:33:00,600 --> 01:33:02,300
change it.
You're going to be Reliant upon

1451
01:33:02,300 --> 01:33:07,000
some form of pharmaceutical
temp, down chemicals, in your

1452
01:33:07,000 --> 01:33:10,100
brain or your going to
constantly, blame somebody else

1453
01:33:10,100 --> 01:33:13,200
for being triggered.
Like and again this isn't

1454
01:33:13,200 --> 01:33:17,400
putting This isn't saying that
people who have been actually

1455
01:33:17,400 --> 01:33:20,400
victimized aren't right for
staying in that space for a

1456
01:33:20,400 --> 01:33:23,400
time, you have to be there, you
have to sit with it, but you

1457
01:33:23,400 --> 01:33:25,700
can't stay there at some point.
You gotta own it, so you can

1458
01:33:25,700 --> 01:33:28,000
beat it and move on.
Absolutely.

1459
01:33:28,000 --> 01:33:30,100
Here's how I like to look at
that.

1460
01:33:30,100 --> 01:33:35,800
You have.
You've got you can be a victim.

1461
01:33:36,700 --> 01:33:40,500
In the facts of experiences that
have happened in your life.

1462
01:33:41,500 --> 01:33:44,600
But that is not an identity.
Right?

1463
01:33:44,600 --> 01:33:47,400
That's not an identity.
That's a description of your

1464
01:33:47,400 --> 01:33:50,600
past.
Yep, it's not a description of

1465
01:33:50,600 --> 01:33:53,500
you.
And it's very important not to

1466
01:33:53,500 --> 01:33:55,400
cross those lines, right?
Yeah.

1467
01:33:55,400 --> 01:33:58,400
Because if you cross those
lines, then then if that becomes

1468
01:33:58,400 --> 01:33:59,700
your identity, then you're
stuck.

1469
01:34:01,100 --> 01:34:04,000
For someone who wasn't truly
victimized, all the ends up

1470
01:34:04,000 --> 01:34:06,000
happening, is that you're stuck
in that space.

1471
01:34:07,000 --> 01:34:10,000
Right?
I mean you can't you can't break

1472
01:34:10,000 --> 01:34:14,700
through it, um, Yeah, I could
see where that would be.

1473
01:34:14,700 --> 01:34:19,800
Highly problematic for people's.
Ability to just function in the

1474
01:34:19,800 --> 01:34:23,300
world, right?
So talking about falsifiable

1475
01:34:23,300 --> 01:34:28,100
hypothesis.
When abuse becomes everything.

1476
01:34:29,300 --> 01:34:32,500
Or not be just when the when the
when the symptoms when

1477
01:34:32,500 --> 01:34:35,900
everything falls within that
symptom of of a pathology,

1478
01:34:35,900 --> 01:34:38,400
right?
We can no longer measure this

1479
01:34:38,400 --> 01:34:42,800
but it gets worse. because if
you bring repressed memories in

1480
01:34:43,800 --> 01:34:47,200
We can now we can't validate.
We can't validate trauma either.

1481
01:34:48,200 --> 01:34:51,600
Right.
Now neither we've got a

1482
01:34:51,600 --> 01:34:55,200
hypothesis with two parts.
That are invalid that we cannot

1483
01:34:55,200 --> 01:34:59,600
validate.
We cannot Define. that's, that

1484
01:34:59,600 --> 01:35:01,800
is not the scientific method,
right?

1485
01:35:01,800 --> 01:35:05,900
We call that we call that junk
science, right?

1486
01:35:07,400 --> 01:35:11,300
And that's where this book Falls
in junk science because that's

1487
01:35:11,300 --> 01:35:16,200
what it's setting forth.
As scientific research as it's

1488
01:35:16,200 --> 01:35:18,500
like you said, it's, it's
claiming you're going to read

1489
01:35:18,500 --> 01:35:20,100
through this and it's like
headaches.

1490
01:35:21,700 --> 01:35:27,200
Oh, I have frequent headaches.
and then, that means that Well,

1491
01:35:27,200 --> 01:35:29,500
maybe the cause of my headaches
is abused.

1492
01:35:29,500 --> 01:35:32,700
Well, I wasn't abused.
Maybe I forgot.

1493
01:35:35,100 --> 01:35:38,000
Right, and if I remember, maybe
my headaches will go away.

1494
01:35:41,800 --> 01:35:44,300
Yeah, but then you gotta go on
The Witch Hunt looking for an

1495
01:35:44,300 --> 01:35:46,100
abuser who what maybe was never
there.

1496
01:35:47,800 --> 01:35:51,300
Exactly.
And that's That's bad.

1497
01:35:51,300 --> 01:35:54,000
That's really bad.
It's bad to you and a bad to

1498
01:35:54,000 --> 01:35:56,100
whoever you might end up
pointing the finger at and I

1499
01:35:56,100 --> 01:35:59,600
want to be clear.
I think that sometimes people,

1500
01:35:59,600 --> 01:36:03,100
let's go to the explanation, so,
where does this come from?

1501
01:36:03,900 --> 01:36:08,500
Why is this happening?
Well, false memory is, is a very

1502
01:36:08,500 --> 01:36:11,300
likely culprit here.
It's not that these people are

1503
01:36:11,300 --> 01:36:13,700
all liars.
Maybe, you know, I guess another

1504
01:36:13,700 --> 01:36:17,400
possibility is you've got
deliberate manipulation by

1505
01:36:17,400 --> 01:36:20,000
therapists?
That's a possibility, right?

1506
01:36:22,500 --> 01:36:25,400
And you also have potential the
possibility of deliberate lies

1507
01:36:25,400 --> 01:36:31,900
from supposed survivors.
But it could also be believed.

1508
01:36:33,700 --> 01:36:38,700
and I think in most of these
cases, The victims do believe

1509
01:36:38,700 --> 01:36:41,200
that there were repressed
memories recovering, those

1510
01:36:41,200 --> 01:36:44,000
things actually did happen, the
way that they were remembering

1511
01:36:44,000 --> 01:36:47,800
them.
So what's really going on here?

1512
01:36:47,800 --> 01:36:52,200
Well, so memory is a very
interesting thing.

1513
01:36:52,200 --> 01:36:57,100
You have a couple things that a
couple interesting experiments

1514
01:36:57,100 --> 01:37:00,500
in one is the suggestibility
exaggeration.

1515
01:37:01,400 --> 01:37:03,500
They've done these.
They did this experiment when

1516
01:37:03,500 --> 01:37:09,700
they showed people this video of
cars colliding, and, And they

1517
01:37:09,700 --> 01:37:12,500
watched the video.
Then they'd be giving them space

1518
01:37:12,500 --> 01:37:15,500
to forget details.
And then they were asked

1519
01:37:15,500 --> 01:37:18,200
questions.
And when the question was, when

1520
01:37:18,200 --> 01:37:22,300
the cars crashed, how much
glass, how much Glass Broken

1521
01:37:22,300 --> 01:37:26,500
Glass was there?
And they'd asked one group of

1522
01:37:26,500 --> 01:37:30,100
people that question. the other
group of people I'd say, so

1523
01:37:30,100 --> 01:37:37,200
when, when the cars, when the
cars hit, How much glass was

1524
01:37:37,200 --> 01:37:41,500
there?
And what they found was the

1525
01:37:41,500 --> 01:37:44,100
memory of how much glass was in
that wreck.

1526
01:37:44,900 --> 01:37:49,400
Was reportedly exaggerated at a
higher degree among the people

1527
01:37:49,400 --> 01:37:53,400
who were told the cars crashed
versus the ones.

1528
01:37:53,400 --> 01:37:56,300
Where The cars where the
Collision happened.

1529
01:37:57,900 --> 01:38:03,400
And so, using even just the word
you use can influence somebody's

1530
01:38:03,400 --> 01:38:05,800
memory.
Of an event that happened.

1531
01:38:07,900 --> 01:38:09,200
It gets even more interesting
though.

1532
01:38:09,200 --> 01:38:12,100
You get these faults details
where you know you have a car

1533
01:38:12,100 --> 01:38:16,700
drive and you have a car drive
and it and it stops.

1534
01:38:17,700 --> 01:38:21,300
At a, at a at a stop sign and
then continues on, right?

1535
01:38:22,400 --> 01:38:24,300
And people are showing this
video, they don't know what

1536
01:38:24,300 --> 01:38:25,900
they're watching, they don't
know what they're looking for.

1537
01:38:26,700 --> 01:38:28,200
Then they're giving us to
forget.

1538
01:38:29,400 --> 01:38:33,100
And then the researchers.
Tell them what they saw.

1539
01:38:34,600 --> 01:38:38,400
Mmm and say, do you remember the
car stopping at the yield sign?

1540
01:38:40,100 --> 01:38:42,900
I see.
Oh yeah, I remember that.

1541
01:38:42,900 --> 01:38:45,400
What color was the yield sign?
Oh, it was a, it was yellow.

1542
01:38:45,400 --> 01:38:46,900
Was it look like a yellow
triangle?

1543
01:38:49,500 --> 01:38:51,300
There was no yield sign.
It was a stop sign.

1544
01:38:52,700 --> 01:38:56,100
Right?
But when people were given a

1545
01:38:56,100 --> 01:38:59,200
minute to forget, get it out of
the out of their immediate

1546
01:38:59,200 --> 01:39:01,900
memory into long-term memory,
and then questioned with

1547
01:39:01,900 --> 01:39:05,400
assumptions, people remembered
the assumptions as if they were

1548
01:39:05,400 --> 01:39:07,600
facts.
Yeah.

1549
01:39:07,600 --> 01:39:11,400
Yeah.
So the human memory is suspect

1550
01:39:11,400 --> 01:39:15,800
anyway right?
Yeah I mean that's why Quite

1551
01:39:15,800 --> 01:39:18,600
frankly, that's what when's a
lot of credence to the gospels

1552
01:39:18,600 --> 01:39:22,100
of the New Testament is the fact
they don't think of person

1553
01:39:22,100 --> 01:39:25,400
perfectly, right?
The the gist of the stories are

1554
01:39:25,400 --> 01:39:28,600
relatively the same.
However, because they're told

1555
01:39:28,600 --> 01:39:33,700
from different authors, They are
going to be different in the

1556
01:39:33,700 --> 01:39:35,900
things that they remember and
put emphasis on.

1557
01:39:36,900 --> 01:39:39,300
Right?
Why why aren't the gospels, the

1558
01:39:39,300 --> 01:39:40,700
same?
Why are there differences in the

1559
01:39:40,700 --> 01:39:42,800
accounts?
They should be exactly the same,

1560
01:39:42,800 --> 01:39:44,600
right?
Have you ever played telephone

1561
01:39:45,500 --> 01:39:47,200
Right.
That would be kind of.

1562
01:39:47,208 --> 01:39:49,000
That would be the sign of the
falsification.

1563
01:39:50,300 --> 01:39:51,400
Right.
Absolutely.

1564
01:39:53,600 --> 01:39:58,800
Okay, interesting, but you might
say, are you sure that you can

1565
01:39:58,800 --> 01:40:00,800
get facts wrong?
But what about trauma?

1566
01:40:01,400 --> 01:40:04,800
Surely, you know, trauma, you
couldn't misremember, trauma.

1567
01:40:06,500 --> 01:40:08,900
You could imagine something
really dramatic happening.

1568
01:40:09,900 --> 01:40:13,100
Well, there's no ethically.
There's no ethic way to test

1569
01:40:13,100 --> 01:40:15,900
that one, but they did.
They did do a test.

1570
01:40:15,900 --> 01:40:17,200
Okay, this is an interesting
one.

1571
01:40:18,400 --> 01:40:20,300
They got some people in their
parents together.

1572
01:40:21,300 --> 01:40:24,000
And they interviewed the parents
separately and then they went

1573
01:40:24,000 --> 01:40:26,400
and interviewed the kids.
Not kids adults.

1574
01:40:26,400 --> 01:40:29,500
But they had their parents as
part of this study.

1575
01:40:30,300 --> 01:40:33,300
And they would.
Be asking the kids things about

1576
01:40:33,300 --> 01:40:36,900
their childhood things that they
remember that their parents had

1577
01:40:36,900 --> 01:40:38,800
had shared and they share some
real events.

1578
01:40:39,800 --> 01:40:43,100
And then the researchers would
insert events that did not

1579
01:40:43,100 --> 01:40:46,200
happen.
According to the parents even

1580
01:40:46,200 --> 01:40:48,700
verified with the parents.
So for example, there's like

1581
01:40:48,700 --> 01:40:50,000
three main things that they did
here.

1582
01:40:50,000 --> 01:40:53,000
One of them was Jeremy that
time, you got attacked by a dog.

1583
01:40:54,400 --> 01:40:56,500
And they had asked us to
somebody, whose parents said

1584
01:40:56,500 --> 01:40:57,700
they were never attacked by a
dog.

1585
01:40:59,500 --> 01:41:01,700
And they throw in the questions.
You remember that time you got

1586
01:41:01,700 --> 01:41:04,900
lost at the mall?
And this is the somebody whose

1587
01:41:04,900 --> 01:41:06,100
parents said they were never
lost at them.

1588
01:41:06,100 --> 01:41:08,800
All, do you remember the time?
You spilled that punch at the

1589
01:41:08,808 --> 01:41:16,700
wedding?
And this is why wild 25% of

1590
01:41:16,700 --> 01:41:19,200
participants.
Recall.

1591
01:41:19,200 --> 01:41:22,700
I percent 25% of participants
remembered.

1592
01:41:23,400 --> 01:41:27,600
The false trauma and could even.
Describe it.

1593
01:41:29,300 --> 01:41:32,800
Like, oh, I do remember that and
and they could and they had

1594
01:41:32,800 --> 01:41:36,200
details.
They can describe it.

1595
01:41:40,300 --> 01:41:45,200
That is nuts and it's not like
the line, it was just no kind of

1596
01:41:45,208 --> 01:41:48,700
almost an implanted memory.
And then I built a narrative

1597
01:41:48,700 --> 01:41:52,400
around that an authoritative
person suggested that this

1598
01:41:52,400 --> 01:41:56,000
memory is true.
Your parents said, and then the

1599
01:41:56,000 --> 01:41:59,800
mind creates it.
And it's not a true memory.

1600
01:42:02,600 --> 01:42:05,400
That's both fascinating and
messed up, right?

1601
01:42:05,400 --> 01:42:10,000
Like the fact that we can be
that susceptible, but again, and

1602
01:42:10,000 --> 01:42:12,800
I think you bring up another
good point in the authority

1603
01:42:12,800 --> 01:42:15,700
figure, right?
Look, we go to the doctor all

1604
01:42:15,700 --> 01:42:20,000
the time when we go to get a
checkup or whatever and they

1605
01:42:20,000 --> 01:42:22,900
they draw our blood.
And we basically have to be like

1606
01:42:22,900 --> 01:42:25,600
well I'm gonna take your word
for because you're training

1607
01:42:25,600 --> 01:42:28,900
professional, right?
Hey, you got cancer?

1608
01:42:28,900 --> 01:42:31,800
Well, I don't feel sick.
Yeah, it doesn't matter.

1609
01:42:31,800 --> 01:42:35,200
I can see the tumor.
You are sick, right?

1610
01:42:35,200 --> 01:42:41,900
And and so, yeah, we've, we need
a certain amount of trust in In

1611
01:42:41,900 --> 01:42:46,700
you know authorities in their
field for our own betterment at

1612
01:42:46,700 --> 01:42:49,300
times, right?
I mean look, yeah, I don't have

1613
01:42:49,300 --> 01:42:54,800
the time just in to go and you a
bunch of work on thermal nuclear

1614
01:42:54,800 --> 01:42:58,700
Dynamics, right?
but nonetheless, I know it's

1615
01:42:58,700 --> 01:43:01,300
true because Hiroshima tells me
so Right.

1616
01:43:01,300 --> 01:43:05,300
Right.
And oh yeah, she did you?

1617
01:43:05,900 --> 01:43:12,000
Know, right, I guess this.
Way leads now.

1618
01:43:12,400 --> 01:43:15,100
If you can't trust, anybody, you
are going to go crazy.

1619
01:43:16,000 --> 01:43:18,700
Exactly.
So at some point we got we we do

1620
01:43:18,700 --> 01:43:22,300
trust.
People who are authorities in

1621
01:43:22,300 --> 01:43:24,700
their figure, excuse me, in
their field.

1622
01:43:24,700 --> 01:43:30,500
And so if we look at a person
going to a psychiatrist and

1623
01:43:30,500 --> 01:43:33,500
saying gosh I just don't feel
right, blah blah blah.

1624
01:43:34,500 --> 01:43:37,200
And that.
One therapist happens to be

1625
01:43:37,208 --> 01:43:40,100
somebody who's looking to be
published somewhere.

1626
01:43:40,100 --> 01:43:42,500
Make a name for themselves in
the field.

1627
01:43:42,500 --> 01:43:45,300
This would be a good way of
doing it.

1628
01:43:46,200 --> 01:43:50,800
Yeah, so I want to leave this
topic with just a few statistics

1629
01:43:50,800 --> 01:43:54,200
here that I think people need to
understand just for context

1630
01:43:54,200 --> 01:43:57,900
because look this isn't settled.
This is still an ongoing debate

1631
01:43:57,900 --> 01:44:00,700
in the field of psychology.
There's people who believe in

1632
01:44:00,700 --> 01:44:06,000
repressed memories, there are
people who don't But let's talk

1633
01:44:06,000 --> 01:44:10,700
about the statistics.
So again, this was his name,

1634
01:44:10,708 --> 01:44:15,600
doctor This is from Dr. Lauren's
patches.

1635
01:44:16,500 --> 01:44:21,000
His research here.
They did some interviews and

1636
01:44:21,000 --> 01:44:25,600
they asked the question.
For the question is repressed,

1637
01:44:25,600 --> 01:44:28,800
memories can be retrieved in
therapy accurately.

1638
01:44:28,800 --> 01:44:34,000
Yes or no.
Yay or nay. when the general

1639
01:44:34,000 --> 01:44:38,700
public was asked in America,
77.7% said, yes.

1640
01:44:40,400 --> 01:44:43,100
Okay, so that tells us what the
common belief in America is

1641
01:44:43,100 --> 01:44:45,600
right now.
Three out of four people believe

1642
01:44:45,600 --> 01:44:49,200
that repressed memories.
Can be retrieved accurately in

1643
01:44:49,200 --> 01:44:52,000
therapy.
They asked undergraduates.

1644
01:44:52,900 --> 01:44:57,600
In the field of psychology.
64.5%.

1645
01:44:59,600 --> 01:45:03,100
Goes down a little bit, right?
Goes down a little bit.

1646
01:45:04,400 --> 01:45:06,100
This is where it gets really
interesting though.

1647
01:45:07,400 --> 01:45:11,200
Psychological professional
professionals with a research or

1648
01:45:11,200 --> 01:45:14,200
Science Focus.
And it breaks into three

1649
01:45:14,200 --> 01:45:16,000
categories.
I don't know if these categories

1650
01:45:16,000 --> 01:45:18,000
are because it's too technical
for me.

1651
01:45:18,000 --> 01:45:21,400
I'm not in that field but
numbers of different schools of

1652
01:45:21,400 --> 01:45:29,800
thought, right?
24%. 17% 9.7 percent sscp

1653
01:45:29,800 --> 01:45:34,200
members.
Who so it's almost like the

1654
01:45:34,200 --> 01:45:37,400
industry is correcting itself.
Well.

1655
01:45:38,200 --> 01:45:41,100
Almost see.
These are, these are the

1656
01:45:41,100 --> 01:45:45,800
researchers.
Write specifically science

1657
01:45:45,800 --> 01:45:48,300
focused researchers.
These are people who run an

1658
01:45:48,300 --> 01:45:50,100
experiments all day and they're
trying to figure out how the

1659
01:45:50,100 --> 01:45:51,000
brain works.
Alright.

1660
01:45:51,000 --> 01:45:56,000
Alright, let's dip into the
clinic clinicians and there are

1661
01:45:56,000 --> 01:45:58,500
clinical researchers as well.
The clinical research, the

1662
01:45:58,508 --> 01:46:02,500
difference is, the clinical
researcher is focused on is the

1663
01:46:02,500 --> 01:46:05,800
is the clinical practice
effective or not effective, is

1664
01:46:05,800 --> 01:46:07,800
this helping people is this
helping people more.

1665
01:46:07,800 --> 01:46:11,000
That's their Focus, right?
The experimental researchers,

1666
01:46:11,000 --> 01:46:13,000
those get more.
Like, how does the brain even

1667
01:46:13,000 --> 01:46:14,900
work?
That's their research.

1668
01:46:14,900 --> 01:46:17,200
So it's a little bit different.
This is practical research,

1669
01:46:17,200 --> 01:46:19,800
right?
So we've got researchers

1670
01:46:19,800 --> 01:46:24,500
practitioners and cycle
analysts. and clarify a

1671
01:46:24,500 --> 01:46:27,400
psychoanalyst with a general
practitioner is the cycle

1672
01:46:27,400 --> 01:46:33,400
analyst is Believes in a
sub-conscious cause that needs

1673
01:46:33,400 --> 01:46:36,000
to be addressed and they tend to
deal with people.

1674
01:46:36,000 --> 01:46:38,300
Like what's that, What About
Bob?

1675
01:46:38,300 --> 01:46:40,900
Remember that one Yes, I love
that movie.

1676
01:46:40,900 --> 01:46:43,300
Okay, Marie was awesome in that
movie.

1677
01:46:43,300 --> 01:46:47,300
Yeah, that's more cycle analyst
stuff that to deal with the kind

1678
01:46:47,300 --> 01:46:50,200
of things that Bob, had
long-term serious stuff that

1679
01:46:50,200 --> 01:46:52,700
doesn't go away.
A practitioner is like, you

1680
01:46:52,700 --> 01:46:56,400
know, hey, you know, a friend of
mine died and I'm feeling

1681
01:46:56,400 --> 01:46:58,700
depressed.
Now you go see a practitioner

1682
01:46:58,700 --> 01:47:04,100
right, okay.
But I don't I I don't dare leave

1683
01:47:04,100 --> 01:47:07,400
my apartment and I've been in I
haven't I haven't seen the

1684
01:47:07,400 --> 01:47:10,900
outside in 10 years. that's a
cycle analyst generally, you

1685
01:47:10,900 --> 01:47:14,600
know, kind of Focus and
Specialties right.

1686
01:47:14,600 --> 01:47:21,400
So knowing that, psychoanalysts
46.9% believe.

1687
01:47:23,100 --> 01:47:28,500
Oh, So, about half.
But a little less though, still

1688
01:47:28,500 --> 01:47:30,500
less than half.
Right.

1689
01:47:31,300 --> 01:47:38,600
Practitioners, it's 43.1.
And then researchers the

1690
01:47:38,600 --> 01:47:45,400
clinical researchers. 16%.
Oh, only 16%.

1691
01:47:47,000 --> 01:47:50,800
So the researchers would kind of
stress test cases, right?

1692
01:47:50,800 --> 01:47:54,700
They'd go in and take a look at
them and say these good we're

1693
01:47:54,700 --> 01:47:58,200
these good practices that sort
of thing and is the researchers

1694
01:47:58,200 --> 01:48:02,900
are getting in there and kind of
doing a, a post mortar.

1695
01:48:02,900 --> 01:48:07,300
And excuse me, a post-mortem
autopsy on the therapy that was

1696
01:48:07,300 --> 01:48:10,400
giving, they're seeing the
problems and then drawing out

1697
01:48:10,400 --> 01:48:15,100
their conclusions saying, Okay,
with that in mind, this seems to

1698
01:48:15,100 --> 01:48:17,900
be this.
This one form of therapy seems

1699
01:48:17,900 --> 01:48:20,500
to be very suspect.
Exactly.

1700
01:48:20,500 --> 01:48:22,900
That's exactly.
So you see the general public

1701
01:48:22,900 --> 01:48:26,000
seems to as a consensus agree
that this is a thing.

1702
01:48:27,400 --> 01:48:30,100
When it comes to, when it comes
to therapists, actually trying

1703
01:48:30,100 --> 01:48:32,000
to help people whatever their
problems are.

1704
01:48:32,000 --> 01:48:34,500
It's closer to half a little
less than half.

1705
01:48:35,200 --> 01:48:39,000
And when it comes to the people,
whose job it is to see is that

1706
01:48:39,000 --> 01:48:41,300
effective or what the clinicians
doing effective.

1707
01:48:41,300 --> 01:48:43,200
The people trying to understand
how the brain works.

1708
01:48:43,200 --> 01:48:46,500
The people using the scientific
methods running clinical trials

1709
01:48:47,600 --> 01:48:50,000
These people don't generally
tend to believe in this.

1710
01:48:52,100 --> 01:48:56,000
By a long shot.
And I think it's important that

1711
01:48:56,000 --> 01:48:59,700
people understand that.
I think it's important because

1712
01:48:59,700 --> 01:49:04,200
most of us fall in that 77.7%
and I think it's important to

1713
01:49:04,200 --> 01:49:08,200
know that that falls to 16% when
it comes to clinical

1714
01:49:08,200 --> 01:49:10,900
researchers.
You know?

1715
01:49:10,908 --> 01:49:13,700
Yeah.
Oh and that's so important to

1716
01:49:13,700 --> 01:49:18,100
keep in mind that not only
because we're going to cover

1717
01:49:18,100 --> 01:49:22,400
some stuff later where Where,
you know, we don't want to

1718
01:49:22,400 --> 01:49:26,900
create a Witch Hunt, right?
And and that is super important.

1719
01:49:26,900 --> 01:49:31,000
I will say this too.
Some of the more reputable guys,

1720
01:49:31,000 --> 01:49:38,900
I have found in in Mormonism.
Have been victimized that one

1721
01:49:38,900 --> 01:49:40,700
point or another by this very
thing, right?

1722
01:49:40,700 --> 01:49:44,000
Just a few weeks back, talked
about Joe Thompson.

1723
01:49:44,000 --> 01:49:48,300
This was all things that were
leveled against him by where

1724
01:49:48,300 --> 01:49:50,400
repressed memories and and Have
Nots.

1725
01:49:51,700 --> 01:49:55,500
You know regression there.
Yeah where they hypnotize?

1726
01:49:55,500 --> 01:49:58,200
You back to a day and then they
draw forward.

1727
01:49:58,200 --> 01:50:02,900
All the things that happened to
you while on that day and you

1728
01:50:02,900 --> 01:50:07,200
know, he nibbly.
Absolutely was was a victim of

1729
01:50:07,200 --> 01:50:12,200
this even by his own daughter.
And so so it's super important

1730
01:50:12,200 --> 01:50:15,600
that that we put this science
into correct.

1731
01:50:16,300 --> 01:50:20,600
Perspective.
Because certainly, I think every

1732
01:50:20,600 --> 01:50:24,400
allegation deserves to be looked
at Yep.

1733
01:50:24,400 --> 01:50:28,900
You think that every allegation
has to be waiting, the balance

1734
01:50:28,900 --> 01:50:35,400
of the circumstances are there.
And how How those quote

1735
01:50:35,400 --> 01:50:37,900
memories?
Remembered.

1736
01:50:38,900 --> 01:50:42,200
I've got one more data table
that I think.

1737
01:50:42,200 --> 01:50:46,000
Yeah, kind of puts the final.
Final point on this to

1738
01:50:46,000 --> 01:50:48,800
understand this, what you should
know to be able to evaluate this

1739
01:50:48,800 --> 01:50:53,400
correctly, this is a question
that was asked to patients.

1740
01:50:54,500 --> 01:50:56,700
The question is during the
course of therapy.

1741
01:50:56,700 --> 01:51:00,500
Did you come to remember, being
abused as a child when you had

1742
01:51:00,500 --> 01:51:02,500
no previous memory of such
abuse?

1743
01:51:03,600 --> 01:51:07,800
That was the question.
And these are organized by the

1744
01:51:07,800 --> 01:51:11,400
type of therapy.
They received Okay.

1745
01:51:13,200 --> 01:51:16,200
At the very top, we have
attachment therapy.

1746
01:51:16,800 --> 01:51:19,200
With a 57%.
Yes.

1747
01:51:22,500 --> 01:51:24,700
What's attachment?
Therapy.

1748
01:51:24,700 --> 01:51:28,300
Yeah, so attachment therapy is
so these are all different

1749
01:51:28,300 --> 01:51:28,900
modalities.
Right?

1750
01:51:28,900 --> 01:51:33,800
Attachment therapy is where you
look at yourself. and what

1751
01:51:33,800 --> 01:51:36,600
you're going through from a
perspective of do, I think of

1752
01:51:36,600 --> 01:51:40,200
myself, positively or
negatively, Okay.

1753
01:51:40,200 --> 01:51:43,400
And do I see my relationships
with other people do?

1754
01:51:43,400 --> 01:51:44,900
I see them positively or
negatively?

1755
01:51:45,900 --> 01:51:48,400
So if you have a positive view
of yourself and you've got a

1756
01:51:48,400 --> 01:51:51,100
positive view of the other
person you're good, that's where

1757
01:51:51,100 --> 01:51:53,400
you want to get to.
And that's going to create a

1758
01:51:53,400 --> 01:51:57,500
stable, stable psychology, a
stable mental state, right?

1759
01:51:58,500 --> 01:52:01,300
But if I think of myself
negatively, but I think of them

1760
01:52:01,300 --> 01:52:05,300
positively then I can fall into,
maybe dependency behaviors,

1761
01:52:05,300 --> 01:52:05,900
right?
Where?

1762
01:52:05,900 --> 01:52:10,500
And you got problems that come
from that on the other hand, if

1763
01:52:10,500 --> 01:52:13,500
I see myself positively, but
other people negatively, then

1764
01:52:13,500 --> 01:52:16,300
you might be leaning towards,
you know, maybe some narcissism

1765
01:52:16,300 --> 01:52:18,900
or, you know, other types of
orders, right?

1766
01:52:18,900 --> 01:52:23,600
So attachment therapy has to do
with relationships, you're

1767
01:52:23,600 --> 01:52:26,300
attachments and it's evaluating
whether you see yourself

1768
01:52:26,300 --> 01:52:28,300
positive negative and then
positive negative.

1769
01:52:28,300 --> 01:52:32,500
Okay.
So nothing about that, really

1770
01:52:32,500 --> 01:52:34,700
screams repressed memories, does
it?

1771
01:52:35,300 --> 01:52:38,700
Know.
So let me share some more.

1772
01:52:39,800 --> 01:52:43,000
Exposure therapy.
Okay, that was 57%.

1773
01:52:43,000 --> 01:52:48,700
The next one after that is
attachment based therapy at 60

1774
01:52:48,700 --> 01:52:53,600
at 36% I'm not sure it's some
sort of variation on on that

1775
01:52:53,600 --> 01:52:56,000
one.
Drop down below.

1776
01:52:56,000 --> 01:52:59,200
Emotional Freedom techniques.
30%.

1777
01:53:00,900 --> 01:53:02,400
And I do have to say something
about this.

1778
01:53:02,400 --> 01:53:05,900
I have seen this.
It was, this is, this is, this

1779
01:53:05,900 --> 01:53:10,800
is 10 file hat stuff.
Okay, but when I was living in

1780
01:53:10,800 --> 01:53:14,800
Utah, I was dating a girl who
was going to a school, a special

1781
01:53:14,808 --> 01:53:18,500
school unlike since Not not
clinical.

1782
01:53:18,500 --> 01:53:21,900
They did they trained you in
emotional healing.

1783
01:53:22,700 --> 01:53:26,000
And I saw something there.
I don't know if that's what this

1784
01:53:26,000 --> 01:53:27,500
emotional.
Freedom technique says, maybe

1785
01:53:27,500 --> 01:53:29,900
it's something legit.
This was not very legit.

1786
01:53:29,900 --> 01:53:31,208
They would bring people up in
the room.

1787
01:53:31,216 --> 01:53:34,000
She invited me to one of the
classes and I came to the class

1788
01:53:35,100 --> 01:53:37,900
They invited somebody random
person in the audience up to the

1789
01:53:37,908 --> 01:53:41,400
room to come up to the front.
And they started showing some

1790
01:53:41,400 --> 01:53:44,200
Kinesiology and they're like,
look, hold the Book of Mormon,

1791
01:53:44,200 --> 01:53:46,700
and then we'll hold the book
before, and she personally,

1792
01:53:46,700 --> 01:53:49,300
arms, like that's really strong.
It's really strong, right?

1793
01:53:49,300 --> 01:53:52,000
Okay.
Now, here's a Vanity Fair

1794
01:53:52,000 --> 01:53:54,000
magazine.
Oh look!

1795
01:53:54,000 --> 01:53:55,900
It's super weak.
It's super weak.

1796
01:53:55,900 --> 01:53:57,400
So here's how we're going to
figure stuff out.

1797
01:53:58,800 --> 01:54:00,900
And they're like, all right.
What do you need?

1798
01:54:02,800 --> 01:54:05,300
Something happened in your past,
it's always something happening

1799
01:54:05,300 --> 01:54:08,300
in your past.
So was it when you were 50?

1800
01:54:08,300 --> 01:54:12,400
Was it when you were 30, was it?
When you're 20?

1801
01:54:13,500 --> 01:54:15,400
10s.
Okay.

1802
01:54:15,400 --> 01:54:19,900
Ten Eleven twelve, Thirty your
13.

1803
01:54:19,900 --> 01:54:23,500
Okay.
Close your eyes and imagine when

1804
01:54:23,500 --> 01:54:25,800
you were 13 and think of a
color.

1805
01:54:25,800 --> 01:54:28,700
What color would you remember?
Blue.

1806
01:54:28,700 --> 01:54:29,300
Okay.
Blue.

1807
01:54:29,300 --> 01:54:32,100
And it's attached to an object.
What was the object?

1808
01:54:33,300 --> 01:54:36,800
Oh balloon, okay, balloon.
And these people are just making

1809
01:54:36,800 --> 01:54:37,800
stuff up as they're going,
right?

1810
01:54:37,800 --> 01:54:41,900
Like okay 13, color blue, an
object, a balloon.

1811
01:54:42,600 --> 01:54:46,500
And and this person almost has
them like in a hypnotic State

1812
01:54:46,500 --> 01:54:48,600
like they didn't pull out the
watch and all that.

1813
01:54:48,600 --> 01:54:53,300
But the guy standing out there,
he's not behaving normally he's

1814
01:54:53,300 --> 01:54:58,100
not, he's not acting very
normal. and she drills down and

1815
01:54:58,100 --> 01:55:04,000
and they together concoct this
story that when he was like 13

1816
01:55:04,000 --> 01:55:09,200
years old, His dad was angry
with him and blew his temper and

1817
01:55:09,200 --> 01:55:13,000
and popped his blue balloon and
it was a treasured thing to him.

1818
01:55:13,000 --> 01:55:15,900
And he's been holding this pain,
his whole life.

1819
01:55:17,200 --> 01:55:18,900
And then this guy starts
bawling.

1820
01:55:20,700 --> 01:55:23,100
He's bawling, he's sobbing
uncontrollably.

1821
01:55:23,100 --> 01:55:27,900
He's just like, it's like a,
like a charismatic, Jesus

1822
01:55:27,900 --> 01:55:31,000
meeting.
He's like falling to the floor

1823
01:55:31,000 --> 01:55:33,500
and he's crying and she helps
him up.

1824
01:55:33,500 --> 01:55:36,700
And then she's like, okay, take
that pain and and now we're

1825
01:55:36,700 --> 01:55:42,500
going to give it to Jesus.
Any gives it to Jesus and he

1826
01:55:42,500 --> 01:55:44,800
comes out.
And so how do you feel is like

1827
01:55:44,800 --> 01:55:50,400
wow, I feel I feel amazing.
And everybody Applause.

1828
01:55:50,400 --> 01:55:54,900
And I'm saying here like, Yeah,
you know what?

1829
01:55:55,600 --> 01:55:59,400
You know what?
I need to find somebody else to

1830
01:55:59,400 --> 01:56:02,100
be interested in.
You know what?

1831
01:56:02,100 --> 01:56:04,800
That reminded me up.
Like when you go to the psychic

1832
01:56:04,800 --> 01:56:09,200
right in the sidekick goes I you
know, see a bluish greenish

1833
01:56:09,200 --> 01:56:11,100
purplish.
Oh purple yeah.

1834
01:56:11,100 --> 01:56:16,600
Purple and woman early 20s 30s
maybe four?

1835
01:56:16,600 --> 01:56:18,600
Yeah, Four Seasons.
That was it, right?

1836
01:56:18,600 --> 01:56:21,500
And oh, I think you had an uncle
who was in his 40s?

1837
01:56:21,500 --> 01:56:25,500
Who who wore a greenish shirt?
Yeah, that's him.

1838
01:56:25,500 --> 01:56:28,200
That's him.
That's exactly what it sounds.

1839
01:56:28,200 --> 01:56:31,100
Isn't that right?
It is the psyche.

1840
01:56:31,100 --> 01:56:37,500
It is the methods that that the
sideshow cycle uses to wow, you

1841
01:56:37,500 --> 01:56:41,200
out of your money.
Yeah, and all these I was not

1842
01:56:41,200 --> 01:56:43,200
impressed.
I was not impressed and I asked

1843
01:56:43,200 --> 01:56:46,600
her about the world signing up.
I was not signing off and I was

1844
01:56:46,600 --> 01:56:49,900
actually kind of, she was an
into this enough that I was kind

1845
01:56:49,900 --> 01:56:52,800
of done looking in that
direction to be honest if yeah.

1846
01:56:52,800 --> 01:56:54,500
What I'm laying down.
Yeah.

1847
01:56:54,500 --> 01:57:01,600
Um, But I did ask her.
What happens next, right?

1848
01:57:01,600 --> 01:57:04,600
Like so you want to learn how to
do this is like yeah I'm going

1849
01:57:04,600 --> 01:57:05,800
to school so I can learn how to
do this.

1850
01:57:05,800 --> 01:57:09,400
Like oh okay.
So people pay you to do this.

1851
01:57:09,400 --> 01:57:12,400
Yeah yeah people pay you and I'm
late.

1852
01:57:12,400 --> 01:57:15,600
So people come back Oh yeah,
usually you have clients for

1853
01:57:15,600 --> 01:57:18,700
years and years, it takes years
and years to to get through all

1854
01:57:18,700 --> 01:57:21,100
of it.
Well, look at how tall is

1855
01:57:21,100 --> 01:57:23,800
Carlos, anything, it's you gotta
have a next tier, right?

1856
01:57:23,800 --> 01:57:26,500
I mean, you can't just go clear
all at once.

1857
01:57:26,500 --> 01:57:27,900
Justin?
Right.

1858
01:57:27,900 --> 01:57:32,100
Well, look, I I'm looking at
this and I'm thinking my

1859
01:57:32,100 --> 01:57:34,800
thoughts are, okay.
This is an emotional catharsis

1860
01:57:34,800 --> 01:57:36,900
their experience in that does
create.

1861
01:57:36,900 --> 01:57:39,200
That does create a high.
Yep.

1862
01:57:39,200 --> 01:57:40,800
Right.
Don't you?

1863
01:57:40,800 --> 01:57:44,400
Yep.
Yeah, you're you're but it's

1864
01:57:44,400 --> 01:57:46,800
gonna wear off.
Its not real.

1865
01:57:46,800 --> 01:57:49,100
It didn't change you.
It didn't transform.

1866
01:57:49,100 --> 01:57:51,900
You, it's gonna wear off and
you're gonna want another hit.

1867
01:57:51,900 --> 01:57:54,800
And who's your drug dealer now?
Yep.

1868
01:57:54,800 --> 01:58:00,800
Yep, 100%.
So anyways I'm not saying that's

1869
01:58:00,800 --> 01:58:02,700
what emotional Freedom
techniques is because I didn't

1870
01:58:02,700 --> 01:58:04,200
Google that one, but whatever it
is.

1871
01:58:04,200 --> 01:58:07,500
It's got a 30%.
That's the therapy modality that

1872
01:58:07,500 --> 01:58:11,000
you you you received there's a
30% chance.

1873
01:58:11,000 --> 01:58:14,300
You're going to find a
repressed, childhood memory and

1874
01:58:14,300 --> 01:58:16,700
interesting.
Now this one might shock you

1875
01:58:16,700 --> 01:58:21,800
hypnosis 21%.
I'm surprised, it's that high.

1876
01:58:22,700 --> 01:58:24,500
I think it would be higher,
right?

1877
01:58:24,500 --> 01:58:26,000
I think henosis would be at the
top.

1878
01:58:27,200 --> 01:58:30,100
Like wouldn't hit noises be the
most likely modality where you

1879
01:58:30,100 --> 01:58:32,800
would have maybe a false memory
come forward.

1880
01:58:33,700 --> 01:58:34,900
Would think, right?
Yeah.

1881
01:58:34,900 --> 01:58:36,100
I mean, right?
Yeah.

1882
01:58:36,100 --> 01:58:39,300
So, I would think that would be
higher, not lower.

1883
01:58:40,600 --> 01:58:44,000
But it's some reason attachment
therapy is at the top and I'm

1884
01:58:44,000 --> 01:58:45,200
like, how do you make sense of
this?

1885
01:58:45,200 --> 01:58:47,900
This doesn't make sense.
Now you go down, lower

1886
01:58:47,900 --> 01:58:54,900
Christian, Base therapy, only
16%. 12 step program. 15%

1887
01:58:54,900 --> 01:59:00,500
marriage counseling, 12%.
And now here's the most wild,

1888
01:59:00,500 --> 01:59:02,600
one of all because there's all
started from Freud.

1889
01:59:04,500 --> 01:59:06,300
Write cycle.
Dynamic therapy.

1890
01:59:07,600 --> 01:59:10,800
Okay.
What's psychodynamic Theory?

1891
01:59:10,800 --> 01:59:13,500
It's Freud.
It's basically talk therapy.

1892
01:59:13,500 --> 01:59:15,700
It's the modern iteration of it.
Okay.

1893
01:59:15,700 --> 01:59:19,400
All right.
So it's Freud it's Freud's stuff

1894
01:59:19,408 --> 01:59:22,600
with all the modern enhancements
as far as a modality.

1895
01:59:22,600 --> 01:59:24,800
They are therapeutic modality
goes, right?

1896
01:59:24,800 --> 01:59:29,300
So you talk about your trauma
and and that true talking about

1897
01:59:29,300 --> 01:59:31,400
it, you're going to release it
and you're going to get better.

1898
01:59:31,400 --> 01:59:33,300
I'm guessing I'm guessing.
Gotcha.

1899
01:59:33,300 --> 01:59:37,400
Okay.
Um, So, why is that at 5% yet?

1900
01:59:37,400 --> 01:59:40,900
Attachment is at 57% and then
you've got like hypnosis in the

1901
01:59:40,908 --> 01:59:45,300
middle of 20.
I'm not a professional.

1902
01:59:45,300 --> 01:59:47,000
I don't I can't answer this
right?

1903
01:59:47,000 --> 01:59:52,500
I'm this isn't my field right?
However I think this has more

1904
01:59:52,500 --> 01:59:56,200
about the practitioners than it
does about the modalities.

1905
01:59:58,200 --> 02:00:01,500
Oh, I see.
Because the psychodynamic

1906
02:00:01,500 --> 02:00:04,800
practitioners.
These are these are by the book

1907
02:00:04,808 --> 02:00:06,700
kind of guys.
Alright that's where I mean

1908
02:00:06,700 --> 02:00:09,900
Freud wasn't very by the book.
Right.

1909
02:00:09,900 --> 02:00:12,800
Compared to Modern standards.
Right.

1910
02:00:12,800 --> 02:00:16,800
But for his time he was And
there were some really crazy

1911
02:00:16,800 --> 02:00:19,500
Cooks back there with some, even
even cook your stuff.

1912
02:00:19,508 --> 02:00:23,700
And Freud actually was trying to
be somewhat scientific and I

1913
02:00:23,700 --> 02:00:27,200
think that modality appeals to
people scientifically minded

1914
02:00:28,100 --> 02:00:32,200
Know, it makes sense.
And then you got attachment

1915
02:00:32,200 --> 02:00:35,800
Theory.
Why 57% that's wild to me.

1916
02:00:36,500 --> 02:00:39,200
I mean that means if me and my
wife, both go and have

1917
02:00:39,200 --> 02:00:42,000
attachment therapy one of us are
coming back with or repressed

1918
02:00:42,000 --> 02:00:44,700
memory.
Ooh.

1919
02:00:46,800 --> 02:00:50,900
That seems like a problem that's
I was gonna say that's

1920
02:00:50,900 --> 02:00:52,400
problematic.
Yeah.

1921
02:00:53,200 --> 02:00:56,700
And again, I don't want to blame
the modality, but different

1922
02:00:56,700 --> 02:00:59,000
modalities appeal to different
types of people.

1923
02:01:00,500 --> 02:01:04,200
Right.
See my sister's in is in is in

1924
02:01:04,200 --> 02:01:06,900
these fields, right?
And right different things,

1925
02:01:06,900 --> 02:01:09,600
appeal to her based off of her
background and her life

1926
02:01:09,600 --> 02:01:12,800
experience and the kind of
therapy that she does, she helps

1927
02:01:12,800 --> 02:01:17,000
she helps people deal with grief
and and that kind of the trauma

1928
02:01:17,000 --> 02:01:20,500
of lost loved ones.
And I think maybe some of that

1929
02:01:20,508 --> 02:01:23,400
kind of sense from, you know,
personal experience as right.

1930
02:01:24,600 --> 02:01:26,500
Right.
Well, what's really interesting?

1931
02:01:26,500 --> 02:01:31,400
Remember that There's some of
these cases.

1932
02:01:31,400 --> 02:01:33,300
I only showed that cast case
study.

1933
02:01:33,300 --> 02:01:38,400
I should there is a case study
where somebody had a love of a

1934
02:01:38,400 --> 02:01:40,000
repressed, memory of abuse of
childhood.

1935
02:01:41,000 --> 02:01:44,700
It was it was shot down, it
turned out to not be true.

1936
02:01:45,800 --> 02:01:48,200
But she went on and became a
therapist.

1937
02:01:49,800 --> 02:01:53,600
And was involved in some of the
later Cascade studies advocating

1938
02:01:53,600 --> 02:01:57,700
for a repressed memory case that
didn't wasn't actually true

1939
02:01:57,700 --> 02:01:59,500
either.
Oh wow.

1940
02:02:01,900 --> 02:02:04,400
And interesting because she's
almost repeating.

1941
02:02:04,400 --> 02:02:08,100
Look.
I'll just call it like I see it,

1942
02:02:08,100 --> 02:02:11,500
right?
If you go to a practitioner that

1943
02:02:11,500 --> 02:02:16,000
through suggestion, kind of
important kind of in parts of

1944
02:02:16,000 --> 02:02:18,000
false memory, that's form of
abuse, right?

1945
02:02:18,000 --> 02:02:23,500
And it is interesting that this
woman seems to Like, we see

1946
02:02:23,500 --> 02:02:27,600
another abuse cases.
She ends up becoming the abuser

1947
02:02:27,600 --> 02:02:29,700
at some point.
Right?

1948
02:02:29,700 --> 02:02:32,400
And that that brings up a,
really another really important

1949
02:02:32,400 --> 02:02:35,500
point.
I'm not necessarily going to

1950
02:02:35,508 --> 02:02:38,400
blame her because she was
victimized by her therapist.

1951
02:02:39,300 --> 02:02:42,600
And really does believe that.
Then she really is dealing with

1952
02:02:42,600 --> 02:02:44,700
the trauma of it, whether or not
it happened or not.

1953
02:02:44,700 --> 02:02:46,600
She's she's got to deal with
that trauma.

1954
02:02:46,600 --> 02:02:50,200
Now, and here's the thing, if
somebody actually has been

1955
02:02:50,200 --> 02:02:57,800
abused, The abuse is real. and,
They get better through therapy,

1956
02:02:57,800 --> 02:02:59,500
right?
Right.

1957
02:02:59,500 --> 02:03:02,500
And they recognize that the
dysfunction they had in their

1958
02:03:02,500 --> 02:03:05,100
adult.
Life was caused by the not the

1959
02:03:05,100 --> 02:03:08,400
represent, the actual abuse.
They remembered Right?

1960
02:03:08,400 --> 02:03:10,800
And you then get in the field of
psychology yourself.

1961
02:03:11,900 --> 02:03:15,300
Because you want to help people
the way that psychology helped

1962
02:03:15,300 --> 02:03:18,600
you.
And the way psychology helped

1963
02:03:18,600 --> 02:03:21,800
you was by identifying, the
abuse in your past, that was

1964
02:03:21,800 --> 02:03:27,900
triggering the Right?
Well, when you when your tool is

1965
02:03:27,900 --> 02:03:31,800
a hammer and when the hammer is
what saved your life, Everything

1966
02:03:31,800 --> 02:03:34,100
looks like a nail.
Everything looks like a nail.

1967
02:03:34,700 --> 02:03:38,300
Yep.
Yeah, so this might explain why

1968
02:03:38,300 --> 02:03:40,900
there's such a discrepancy on
the beliefs on this between

1969
02:03:40,900 --> 02:03:42,800
practitioners, why it's not
settled.

1970
02:03:44,000 --> 02:03:46,100
But also why researchers seem to
say?

1971
02:03:46,100 --> 02:03:48,900
They don't tend to believe this
at all, and it's the

1972
02:03:48,900 --> 02:03:52,200
practitioners who seem to be
like, no, I think this is real.

1973
02:03:52,200 --> 02:03:54,200
I think this is a real thing and
it's really happening.

1974
02:03:55,500 --> 02:03:57,800
So, take with this information.
What you will?

1975
02:03:57,800 --> 02:04:01,100
I'm not here to say.
It's all bad, it's all fake and

1976
02:04:01,100 --> 02:04:02,800
it never happened.
I don't know.

1977
02:04:03,900 --> 02:04:05,200
You don't know either though,
right?

1978
02:04:05,200 --> 02:04:07,500
Right?
But you've been told something

1979
02:04:07,500 --> 02:04:12,000
you've been, you've been hearing
a narrative and I want to clear

1980
02:04:12,000 --> 02:04:13,900
the air on this because I think
it's important that people

1981
02:04:13,900 --> 02:04:17,400
understand the other side of the
story so that they can make

1982
02:04:17,400 --> 02:04:21,100
proper judgment.
And This is what I gained from

1983
02:04:21,100 --> 02:04:28,200
it. if if I encounter somebody
claiming or repressed memory, Of

1984
02:04:28,200 --> 02:04:30,600
abuse.
I am going to treat that the

1985
02:04:30,600 --> 02:04:33,800
same way as I might with a
spiritual confirmation.

1986
02:04:35,000 --> 02:04:38,200
Of somebody doing something bad.
Right.

1987
02:04:38,200 --> 02:04:43,000
Meaning it can be a cause for
investigation, but it is not

1988
02:04:43,000 --> 02:04:47,000
evidence enough to condemn or
judge.

1989
02:04:48,200 --> 02:04:50,200
Right.
So I'm not saying, don't believe

1990
02:04:50,200 --> 02:04:54,100
people that claim this But I'm
saying, I don't think we can

1991
02:04:54,100 --> 02:04:58,700
righteously judge people.
On this evidence alone because

1992
02:04:58,700 --> 02:05:04,000
there's it's two unsettled,
there's too many problems of

1993
02:05:04,000 --> 02:05:07,000
potential abuse of this type of
the system too, right?

1994
02:05:07,000 --> 02:05:12,100
So yeah, that that's kind of why
I wanted to clear the air on

1995
02:05:12,100 --> 02:05:17,300
with that. well, you know, I
again, I think it does allow us

1996
02:05:17,300 --> 02:05:20,600
to set some parameters here To
talk about what we're going to

1997
02:05:20,608 --> 02:05:24,500
talk about next and this is
really where this this episode I

1998
02:05:24,500 --> 02:05:26,000
think is going to get a little
spicy.

1999
02:05:26,800 --> 02:05:29,200
So to speak, right?
We've kind of set the parameters

2000
02:05:29,200 --> 02:05:38,100
on on, you know how, maybe a
whole generation has been Been

2001
02:05:38,100 --> 02:05:43,000
kind of groomed for this now.
And also, some of the, the

2002
02:05:43,000 --> 02:05:47,700
pitfalls that we find with the
more Sensational stories, right?

2003
02:05:47,700 --> 02:05:52,900
And and how to judge, and
discern between between what's

2004
02:05:52,900 --> 02:05:56,700
real and what's, Suggested.
Yeah.

2005
02:05:56,700 --> 02:06:00,200
Yeah I think we got the tools
now to look at what I really

2006
02:06:00,200 --> 02:06:03,100
wanted to talk with you about
today which is also something

2007
02:06:03,100 --> 02:06:08,200
that I didn't want to talk with
you about today because right So

2008
02:06:08,200 --> 02:06:11,800
it hurts.
Yeah, it hurts it, I'll be

2009
02:06:11,800 --> 02:06:13,800
honest.
It's a, as I have researched

2010
02:06:13,800 --> 02:06:16,300
this, it feels like a bit of a
betrayal.

2011
02:06:17,500 --> 02:06:24,300
Akin to the trail experience
when. when I found out that who

2012
02:06:24,300 --> 02:06:27,200
was it?
Bruce R mcconkie had lied to me

2013
02:06:27,208 --> 02:06:37,000
about out and got right.
I I felt kind of misled and so,

2014
02:06:38,200 --> 02:06:40,700
In my own personal parade, in
the fundamentalism.

2015
02:06:40,700 --> 02:06:45,000
I very quickly decided that the
right thing for me in my family

2016
02:06:45,000 --> 02:06:46,600
were to be independent
fundamentalist.

2017
02:06:46,600 --> 02:06:51,200
I I believe the doctrine Um, I
investigated a few groups, like

2018
02:06:51,200 --> 02:06:56,300
The AUB and the branch.
But I in the end I felt like I

2019
02:06:56,300 --> 02:06:58,200
needed to stay independent.
That was the right thing for me,

2020
02:06:58,200 --> 02:07:01,000
right?
And most of the people that I've

2021
02:07:01,000 --> 02:07:06,000
come to know are Are either some
people I know who are in some of

2022
02:07:06,000 --> 02:07:09,400
these groups. and individuals
though within the group it's not

2023
02:07:09,408 --> 02:07:15,900
I don't know the groups as a
whole and, And and just other

2024
02:07:15,900 --> 02:07:20,900
friends independent, like you.
Or like, maybe you were like

2025
02:07:20,900 --> 02:07:24,200
Sean, like my brother, right?
These are, this is these are the

2026
02:07:24,200 --> 02:07:25,900
circles that I ran in and
fundamentalism.

2027
02:07:27,400 --> 02:07:31,700
And I had.
I had always I always heard some

2028
02:07:31,700 --> 02:07:34,000
bad stuff going on.
Right.

2029
02:07:34,000 --> 02:07:42,100
You got the flds situation and I
I thought that is terrible.

2030
02:07:43,100 --> 02:07:47,100
That is absolutely terrible.
What Warren just did is an

2031
02:07:47,100 --> 02:07:51,900
inexcusable Yep.
And that is not.

2032
02:07:53,100 --> 02:07:57,200
What Mormon fundamentalism is.
But what are my making that

2033
02:07:57,200 --> 02:07:58,500
clean?
That that's not what Mormon

2034
02:07:58,500 --> 02:08:01,900
fundamentalism.
I'm making that claim from my

2035
02:08:01,900 --> 02:08:05,000
experience.
And my experience has been a

2036
02:08:05,000 --> 02:08:07,700
whole lot of really good people,
and some really good families.

2037
02:08:09,700 --> 02:08:17,500
um, My.
I'm kind of concerned about

2038
02:08:17,500 --> 02:08:19,500
stuff that might have been
happening in the past.

2039
02:08:19,500 --> 02:08:22,100
It might still be going on.
And I think we need to talk

2040
02:08:22,100 --> 02:08:26,300
about it because I stand by that
that this is, this is not Mormon

2041
02:08:26,300 --> 02:08:30,000
fundamentalism know, you're
you're ingest is not Mormon

2042
02:08:30,000 --> 02:08:34,000
fundamentalism and anything like
that happening today or that has

2043
02:08:34,000 --> 02:08:36,000
happened in the past.
That's not Mormon

2044
02:08:36,000 --> 02:08:40,500
fundamentalism. 100%, I have had
the opportunity because of the

2045
02:08:40,500 --> 02:08:44,200
podcast to talk with many people
from the fundamentalist

2046
02:08:44,200 --> 02:08:49,400
communities, right?
And the vast vast overwhelming,

2047
02:08:49,400 --> 02:08:53,600
majority of them are just good
people doing the best they can.

2048
02:08:54,800 --> 02:08:59,800
To raise good families.
Where abuses at absence but

2049
02:08:59,800 --> 02:09:03,900
nonetheless, we know that it
does exist, right?

2050
02:09:03,900 --> 02:09:08,700
And I want, I want to set the
table here before we get too

2051
02:09:08,700 --> 02:09:14,700
much further in again that we
have to recognize that.

2052
02:09:16,000 --> 02:09:20,200
We are right now, having kind of
a Mormon slash Mormon

2053
02:09:20,200 --> 02:09:26,800
fundamentalist moment, right?
Where Where we've seen TV show

2054
02:09:26,800 --> 02:09:30,500
reality TV, I use the term
reality and air quotes reality

2055
02:09:30,500 --> 02:09:32,500
TV shows with Mormon
fundamentalism.

2056
02:09:32,500 --> 02:09:37,800
We've had TV shows about them.
We're seeing documentaries now,

2057
02:09:37,800 --> 02:09:42,400
on Netflix and the Ghost of that
abuse is still there, and it's

2058
02:09:42,400 --> 02:09:49,600
something that we have to work
against to to essentially say

2059
02:09:49,600 --> 02:09:52,000
that's not us, right?
Those are outliers.

2060
02:09:52,000 --> 02:09:55,300
So those aren't aren't that.
And that's the purpose of this

2061
02:09:55,300 --> 02:10:00,700
conversation, right?
Is is to, to be able to kind of

2062
02:10:00,708 --> 02:10:03,800
cleanse ourselves of that a
little bit and be able to say,

2063
02:10:03,800 --> 02:10:08,000
no that's not us but that means
that we have to deal with the

2064
02:10:08,000 --> 02:10:09,200
problems that are in front of
us.

2065
02:10:09,200 --> 02:10:12,200
Right?
And that uncomfortable place to

2066
02:10:12,200 --> 02:10:14,500
be.
But nonetheless, that's where

2067
02:10:14,500 --> 02:10:17,300
true healing happens.
Exactly.

2068
02:10:17,300 --> 02:10:22,800
And I imagine, maybe many
people, I don't know, I can't

2069
02:10:22,800 --> 02:10:26,100
say but for me, I had heard
rumors and stuff maybe happening

2070
02:10:26,100 --> 02:10:30,600
in here or there among some of
these more unsavory considered

2071
02:10:30,600 --> 02:10:32,400
groups.
But I never, I never took the

2072
02:10:32,400 --> 02:10:34,800
time to really research it
because I said that the people

2073
02:10:34,800 --> 02:10:37,200
that I met the people that I
knew the people I hung out with

2074
02:10:37,200 --> 02:10:42,700
this is nobody, nobody's doing
this kind of stuff or agrees

2075
02:10:42,700 --> 02:10:47,400
that it's acceptable, or has, Or
as perpetuating ideas that can

2076
02:10:47,400 --> 02:10:50,000
lead to what.
And so to me, it was mythical.

2077
02:10:50,700 --> 02:10:53,800
It was mythical, it probably
happens because there's no

2078
02:10:53,800 --> 02:10:57,000
there's bad people everywhere.
Yeah, there's going to be bad

2079
02:10:57,000 --> 02:10:59,900
people, doing bad things in the
LDS church, and the Protestant

2080
02:10:59,900 --> 02:11:02,900
church and the Catholic church
and fundamentalism among

2081
02:11:02,900 --> 02:11:06,400
atheists.
It's There's bad eggs in all

2082
02:11:06,400 --> 02:11:10,200
walks of life.
There's no One true social

2083
02:11:10,200 --> 02:11:15,500
institution where there's never,
anybody who makes bad decisions.

2084
02:11:15,500 --> 02:11:21,300
Yep.
So with that, what is abuse?

2085
02:11:24,400 --> 02:11:27,000
That was this is the first
question you got to ask is what

2086
02:11:27,000 --> 02:11:30,700
is abuse.
I would say in the terms were

2087
02:11:30,700 --> 02:11:33,000
talking about, right?
We're religious abuse.

2088
02:11:33,700 --> 02:11:42,600
It would be anything that.
Is thrown your way. that is

2089
02:11:42,600 --> 02:11:48,000
damaging to yourself or
Compromises your agency.

2090
02:11:48,900 --> 02:11:52,700
How?
In religious verbiage or

2091
02:11:52,700 --> 02:11:55,300
forever.
Okay, not bad.

2092
02:11:55,300 --> 02:11:57,100
Not bad.
And I did talk to you a little

2093
02:11:57,108 --> 02:11:59,100
bit about this earlier, right?
Yeah.

2094
02:11:59,100 --> 02:12:02,000
The thing is they give you the
let me give you a dictionary

2095
02:12:02,008 --> 02:12:05,800
definition of abuse.
Okay, Marion Webster.

2096
02:12:08,500 --> 02:12:16,300
A corrupt practice or custom?
Okay, improper or excessive use

2097
02:12:16,300 --> 02:12:18,600
or treatment.
Okay.

2098
02:12:18,600 --> 02:12:21,200
Language.
That condemns your vilifies

2099
02:12:21,200 --> 02:12:26,500
unjustly.
And physical maltreatment.

2100
02:12:27,600 --> 02:12:31,300
Okay.
I don't think any of these work.

2101
02:12:33,100 --> 02:12:36,400
I don't think it is work.
I found another one that you

2102
02:12:36,400 --> 02:12:38,900
know, basically says, you know,
abuse is causing harm to

2103
02:12:38,900 --> 02:12:42,700
somebody else. so let me ask
you, David, if I go over to your

2104
02:12:42,700 --> 02:12:46,100
house, And I pop you in the
face.

2105
02:12:48,300 --> 02:12:52,108
Did I abuse you?
Kind of depends on if I had it

2106
02:12:52,116 --> 02:12:53,700
coming, right?
I believe I'm broke out.

2107
02:12:53,700 --> 02:12:57,100
So sometimes, you know, you just
got to take one to the face,

2108
02:12:57,100 --> 02:12:59,000
know, that would be abused,
right?

2109
02:12:59,000 --> 02:13:02,600
I mean, no doubt that you come
over out of nowhere, punch in

2110
02:13:02,600 --> 02:13:05,300
the face.
I suppose that's a form.

2111
02:13:06,100 --> 02:13:08,800
I'll tell you what I think I
think that's harm but I don't

2112
02:13:08,800 --> 02:13:11,100
think that's abuse not the way
we wanted to find it.

2113
02:13:11,100 --> 02:13:14,200
Let me explain why.
For one thing you're a bigger

2114
02:13:14,208 --> 02:13:17,100
guy than me with more experience
fighting than me, right?

2115
02:13:17,100 --> 02:13:21,300
And if I swing that punch at you
you could You could probably

2116
02:13:21,300 --> 02:13:26,600
deflect it or dodged, it sure.
You also could punch me back.

2117
02:13:27,800 --> 02:13:29,200
Right.
Right.

2118
02:13:30,100 --> 02:13:31,700
Yeah, yeah.
I could see that.

2119
02:13:31,700 --> 02:13:35,100
Yeah, yeah.
You might have deserved it, I

2120
02:13:35,100 --> 02:13:38,400
guess, right?
But you can also go to the

2121
02:13:38,400 --> 02:13:41,500
police and I'll charge it and
kick me out of your house.

2122
02:13:41,500 --> 02:13:43,600
What the hell?
You popping get the hell out of

2123
02:13:43,600 --> 02:13:45,100
here?
Right.

2124
02:13:45,100 --> 02:13:48,100
You've got options.
Right.

2125
02:13:50,700 --> 02:13:54,000
So I wouldn't call that a beast
that might be harm, but that's

2126
02:13:54,000 --> 02:13:55,700
not abuse.
When we think about abuse, we're

2127
02:13:55,700 --> 02:13:59,100
thinking of something.
Deeper even more prop, way more

2128
02:13:59,100 --> 02:14:02,800
problematic.
Something way, way more serious.

2129
02:14:03,900 --> 02:14:08,500
Than that and here's how I hear,
how, I would Define it first,

2130
02:14:08,500 --> 02:14:13,400
very similar, but I say it's
systemic harm enabled for a

2131
02:14:13,400 --> 02:14:15,600
violation of agency.
Okay.

2132
02:14:17,200 --> 02:14:19,700
I like that.
See now.

2133
02:14:20,500 --> 02:14:22,900
You're a free guy, right?
Yeah.

2134
02:14:22,900 --> 02:14:24,800
What if I what if I pop my kids
in the face?

2135
02:14:27,200 --> 02:14:29,600
Look at you.
Is that yes.

2136
02:14:29,600 --> 02:14:32,900
Well, what can my kid do?
Is my kid does.

2137
02:14:32,900 --> 02:14:35,300
My kid know that they can call
the police on me?

2138
02:14:35,308 --> 02:14:38,900
If I do that, right?
Can my kid pop me back.

2139
02:14:40,100 --> 02:14:42,900
Not really can my kid dodged
that, or avoid it.

2140
02:14:44,400 --> 02:14:47,100
Not really, right?
So that's why I wanted to find

2141
02:14:47,100 --> 02:14:50,200
this differently, right?
Like, look, I can pop somebody

2142
02:14:50,200 --> 02:14:51,500
in the face.
Is that abuse?

2143
02:14:51,500 --> 02:14:56,600
Well, If it's, you know, right
if it's my kid absolutely.

2144
02:14:57,600 --> 02:15:02,300
And notice how it just.
We just went from A dumb idea, a

2145
02:15:02,300 --> 02:15:03,900
bad thing to do to actually
abuse.

2146
02:15:05,000 --> 02:15:07,500
By just changing the person same
action.

2147
02:15:08,500 --> 02:15:12,300
Same action, different person.
Yeah.

2148
02:15:12,300 --> 02:15:17,200
And so this is this is why I
mean, by violation of agency

2149
02:15:18,500 --> 02:15:21,600
You've got agency.
What does that mean?

2150
02:15:21,600 --> 02:15:25,300
That means you could negate.
My actions potentially.

2151
02:15:26,300 --> 02:15:31,900
You can remediate my actions and
you can prevent my actions.

2152
02:15:31,900 --> 02:15:35,600
There's no, there's no Authority
ship here.

2153
02:15:35,600 --> 02:15:36,800
Right?
We're things are a little bit

2154
02:15:36,800 --> 02:15:38,300
different.
Things are uneven.

2155
02:15:40,800 --> 02:15:45,000
Like imagine, you know.
Imagine you're walking down the

2156
02:15:45,000 --> 02:15:46,200
street.
You see a pretty girl?

2157
02:15:47,500 --> 02:15:50,800
And you're like hey sweetie,
give me a kiss.

2158
02:15:52,400 --> 02:15:54,200
Is that abuse?
Well.

2159
02:15:55,500 --> 02:15:59,100
It's maybe harassment, right?
But is that abuse?

2160
02:16:00,500 --> 02:16:03,500
I it's you shouldn't do that.
I don't think she should behave

2161
02:16:03,500 --> 02:16:05,800
that way.
That's but I wouldn't call that

2162
02:16:05,800 --> 02:16:07,300
abuse.
Okay.

2163
02:16:07,300 --> 02:16:11,400
What if your boss What if her
boss calls are in to the office,

2164
02:16:11,408 --> 02:16:13,200
closes the blinds.
Hey sweetie.

2165
02:16:13,200 --> 02:16:14,900
Give me a kiss.
Is that abuse?

2166
02:16:17,300 --> 02:16:20,600
I would say yes, based on the
fact that the power Dynamic is

2167
02:16:20,600 --> 02:16:24,700
different, right?
Which makes the agency

2168
02:16:24,700 --> 02:16:27,600
different, right?
She's got a dependency on her

2169
02:16:27,600 --> 02:16:31,300
boss for her job, which he needs
to make the money to pay her

2170
02:16:31,300 --> 02:16:32,700
bills.
To take care of family.

2171
02:16:32,700 --> 02:16:37,700
All these other kind of stuff.
That's that potentially can

2172
02:16:37,700 --> 02:16:41,000
subvert her agency.
Gotcha.

2173
02:16:41,700 --> 02:16:47,700
So power is a, is a an aspect of
agency that I think needs to be

2174
02:16:47,708 --> 02:16:52,500
considered and measured power to
negate power to run remediate

2175
02:16:52,500 --> 02:16:59,000
and and power to prevent Okay,
the other the other aspect is

2176
02:16:59,000 --> 02:17:01,600
information.
Right.

2177
02:17:01,600 --> 02:17:06,900
Because False information or
beliefs lack of information.

2178
02:17:08,200 --> 02:17:11,799
Of, or a lack of information of
consequences.

2179
02:17:12,700 --> 02:17:16,299
Is also.
A potential violation of agency.

2180
02:17:17,600 --> 02:17:19,600
Well, yeah, because it would
change the power Dynamic, right?

2181
02:17:19,600 --> 02:17:24,400
If you don't know that, you can
see kelp, or you think that your

2182
02:17:24,400 --> 02:17:29,000
agency is inhibited because of a
loss of blessings or something

2183
02:17:29,000 --> 02:17:30,900
like that, the power dynamics
are different.

2184
02:17:31,700 --> 02:17:33,400
Right.
So information.

2185
02:17:34,600 --> 02:17:38,299
And power together, I think need
to be considered when we talk

2186
02:17:38,299 --> 02:17:43,299
about agency and how abuse is
harm enabled through a

2187
02:17:43,299 --> 02:17:45,799
visualization of agency.
And the last thing I want to

2188
02:17:45,799 --> 02:17:51,000
talk about is systemic because
there are cases of abuse but

2189
02:17:51,000 --> 02:17:53,500
generally when we talk about
abuse when this kind of thing

2190
02:17:53,500 --> 02:17:56,000
happens, it's usually not a
one-off.

2191
02:17:59,500 --> 02:18:01,100
It's usually a pattern of
behavior.

2192
02:18:01,100 --> 02:18:05,000
Right?
So kind of like, And I'm not

2193
02:18:05,000 --> 02:18:07,600
picking on them, right?
Like I said, we're about to go

2194
02:18:07,600 --> 02:18:09,600
over our own skeletons and our
own closets.

2195
02:18:09,600 --> 02:18:13,000
But if we look at like what the
Catholic Church went through a

2196
02:18:13,000 --> 02:18:16,600
few years back where there was a
discovery of systemic abuse,

2197
02:18:16,600 --> 02:18:21,600
meaning that Not only was was
there a cover-up?

2198
02:18:21,600 --> 02:18:26,000
But they left the the
perpetrators empowered to do it

2199
02:18:26,000 --> 02:18:29,299
again somewhere else.
Yep, exactly, exactly.

2200
02:18:29,299 --> 02:18:33,200
Institutional cover-up can
perpetuate systemic abuse

2201
02:18:33,200 --> 02:18:37,000
institutional beliefs.
Could potentially create

2202
02:18:37,000 --> 02:18:42,600
systemic abuses as well.
For example, if I'm the one man,

2203
02:18:42,600 --> 02:18:47,100
if I'm the prophet, right?
And I've got my congregation and

2204
02:18:47,100 --> 02:18:50,200
I say, In order to go the
Celestial Kingdom.

2205
02:18:51,500 --> 02:18:54,900
You have to marry a 13 year old.
Right.

2206
02:18:54,900 --> 02:18:57,500
And we stick that in our
Doctrine and Covenants.

2207
02:18:58,799 --> 02:19:01,200
That is going to create systemic
abuse.

2208
02:19:02,200 --> 02:19:03,900
Yes.
Well, he might not have.

2209
02:19:03,900 --> 02:19:06,600
Told anybody specifically to do
anything wrong?

2210
02:19:07,600 --> 02:19:08,600
True.
True.

2211
02:19:08,600 --> 02:19:12,500
But you have now molded this
institution.

2212
02:19:13,600 --> 02:19:15,799
With rules and beliefs and
information.

2213
02:19:17,299 --> 02:19:21,900
That creates.
For not just a one-off situation

2214
02:19:21,900 --> 02:19:24,200
of abuse, you can't control for
a one-off.

2215
02:19:26,100 --> 02:19:31,900
But a system of abuse. right,
where it repeats and the pattern

2216
02:19:31,900 --> 02:19:36,799
will continue to happen again
and again and again, Right.

2217
02:19:39,100 --> 02:19:40,100
Makes sense.
So yeah.

2218
02:19:41,200 --> 02:19:43,799
This is the framework and I'm
not saying this is, this is,

2219
02:19:43,799 --> 02:19:46,200
this is me speaking and I'm
saying this because I couldn't

2220
02:19:46,200 --> 02:19:48,900
find a very good explanation for
what abuse is online.

2221
02:19:48,900 --> 02:19:52,600
Here's the other problem, some
definitions are so minimalistic

2222
02:19:53,500 --> 02:19:56,200
That.
They don't mean anything right.

2223
02:19:56,200 --> 02:20:00,400
Everything's abuse, right?
But my wife earns dinner, it's

2224
02:20:00,400 --> 02:20:05,100
abuse.
Well, if it's a state there,

2225
02:20:05,100 --> 02:20:06,500
there is a case to be made
there.

2226
02:20:06,500 --> 02:20:09,900
So Oh, well done.
Well, maybe the steak was

2227
02:20:09,900 --> 02:20:12,800
abused, doesn't mean you're
abused because you deserve that

2228
02:20:12,800 --> 02:20:17,600
state, right?
Right.

2229
02:20:17,600 --> 02:20:19,900
Here's a here's another
definition I think.

2230
02:20:19,900 --> 02:20:21,800
This one looks like I think
comes from the United Nations.

2231
02:20:23,800 --> 02:20:29,000
Okay, abuse is physical sexual,
emotional economic or

2232
02:20:29,000 --> 02:20:33,400
psychological actions or threats
of action, that influence and

2233
02:20:33,408 --> 02:20:36,600
other person.
This includes any harm.

2234
02:20:36,600 --> 02:20:40,500
Any behaviors that infringe
intimidate, terrorize,

2235
02:20:40,500 --> 02:20:44,300
manipulate hurt, humiliate,
blame injure or wound.

2236
02:20:44,300 --> 02:20:50,000
Someone Hmm.
That seems a little far to the

2237
02:20:50,008 --> 02:20:53,000
other side right?
Where it's like really wide

2238
02:20:53,000 --> 02:20:53,200
open.
Right?

2239
02:20:53,200 --> 02:20:58,400
Humiliate.
I mean Like, what are we talking

2240
02:20:58,400 --> 02:21:00,300
about here, right?
Right.

2241
02:21:01,600 --> 02:21:04,400
Yeah, talking about burning your
buddies is you, you know, it's

2242
02:21:04,400 --> 02:21:07,100
just dudes out talking smack,
right?

2243
02:21:07,100 --> 02:21:11,500
I mean like to me that how many
leftists have said something

2244
02:21:11,500 --> 02:21:13,600
humiliating about President
Trump?

2245
02:21:14,500 --> 02:21:17,000
Oh, and what are we gonna arrest
them all for abuse?

2246
02:21:17,000 --> 02:21:20,600
Exactly, exactly.
Well, no, we all recognize that.

2247
02:21:20,600 --> 02:21:23,000
That's not real abuse.
You know what I mean?

2248
02:21:23,008 --> 02:21:27,600
It's right.
So we kind of talked about this

2249
02:21:27,600 --> 02:21:30,700
a little bit early, right?
But this is a definition that is

2250
02:21:30,700 --> 02:21:34,100
so Broad.
Yeah, they get everything in it.

2251
02:21:34,100 --> 02:21:38,500
Everything is abuse.
And there's there's problems

2252
02:21:38,500 --> 02:21:40,800
with that.
Ultimately abuses gonna be

2253
02:21:40,800 --> 02:21:44,300
someone subjective.
Because definition of harm is

2254
02:21:44,300 --> 02:21:48,400
subjective you and I both agree
that pornography is harmful,

2255
02:21:48,400 --> 02:21:51,900
right?
But I know that there's somebody

2256
02:21:51,900 --> 02:21:55,900
out there who says, no way,
Nothing wrong for photography.

2257
02:21:55,900 --> 02:21:58,400
It's not harmful at all.
Right.

2258
02:22:00,000 --> 02:22:03,500
So I think we need a framework
for this where we can where we

2259
02:22:03,508 --> 02:22:07,500
can judge and it's not just
purely subjective.

2260
02:22:08,700 --> 02:22:11,700
But this is kind of sets forth,
a framework where we can

2261
02:22:11,700 --> 02:22:14,800
evaluate stuff.
Because we're going to get into

2262
02:22:14,800 --> 02:22:17,700
some topics here and some of
them are more historic.

2263
02:22:18,700 --> 02:22:23,500
And we need to be able to
evaluate that and so a broad

2264
02:22:23,500 --> 02:22:25,800
definition will do us.
No good a super narrow

2265
02:22:25,800 --> 02:22:29,200
definition does us no good.
I think this definition or

2266
02:22:29,200 --> 02:22:34,300
service will serve us well so
Um, one last thing is in order

2267
02:22:34,300 --> 02:22:37,200
to have systemic abuse, there
has to be an institution.

2268
02:22:38,200 --> 02:22:39,700
Right.
Because systems exist

2269
02:22:39,700 --> 02:22:43,900
institutions.
Example institutions can be like

2270
02:22:43,900 --> 02:22:45,500
family.
Church.

2271
02:22:46,600 --> 02:22:49,900
Community.
Education and work.

2272
02:22:51,000 --> 02:22:53,100
And there's more, you got
government and all that but this

2273
02:22:53,100 --> 02:22:57,000
is just just some ideas.
Like this is where we need to

2274
02:22:57,000 --> 02:22:58,600
be.
These are the these are the

2275
02:22:58,600 --> 02:23:01,300
places where systems happened.
So these are the places we need

2276
02:23:01,300 --> 02:23:05,700
to look for systemic abuse.
And we need to say what is wrong

2277
02:23:05,700 --> 02:23:10,200
with the institution?
That is systematizing the abuse.

2278
02:23:10,200 --> 02:23:13,700
Because like I said, you know,
John C Bennett seems to have

2279
02:23:13,700 --> 02:23:16,800
been a really depraved
individual from the history that

2280
02:23:16,800 --> 02:23:19,800
I've read.
Is that Joseph's fault.

2281
02:23:21,000 --> 02:23:23,200
Is that is that the
restoration's fault?

2282
02:23:23,200 --> 02:23:29,000
Well, I say it's not but it
could be it could be We've got

2283
02:23:29,000 --> 02:23:31,300
to be able to evaluate that
right.

2284
02:23:31,300 --> 02:23:35,600
How do we decide?
Because institutions, consistent

2285
02:23:35,600 --> 02:23:36,100
advice.
Stuff.

2286
02:23:36,100 --> 02:23:38,600
Was there a system in place for
John Cena to do that?

2287
02:23:40,100 --> 02:23:44,000
I would argue no, there was not.
Know, there are some people that

2288
02:23:44,000 --> 02:23:46,900
Twisted history, and they think
that John Cena was Joseph's

2289
02:23:46,900 --> 02:23:50,600
right hand secretly.
Give me man, but the actual

2290
02:23:50,600 --> 02:23:53,600
history shows that no John Cena
learned about it.

2291
02:23:54,600 --> 02:23:59,900
And then without permission
started using it to to lie in

2292
02:23:59,900 --> 02:24:02,200
manipulate.
And she Right.

2293
02:24:02,200 --> 02:24:06,000
I think it's all important to
point out, that all those

2294
02:24:06,000 --> 02:24:08,700
systems that you just said,
usually come with hierarchy.

2295
02:24:09,400 --> 02:24:10,300
Right.
Right?

2296
02:24:10,300 --> 02:24:13,300
And and the kind of abuse.
We're going to be talking about

2297
02:24:13,300 --> 02:24:16,800
today, cannot happen.
Let me pray that.

2298
02:24:17,700 --> 02:24:24,200
It's less likely to happen.
If there's no hierarchy, but

2299
02:24:24,200 --> 02:24:27,300
hierarchies are absolutely
necessary to keep Society

2300
02:24:27,300 --> 02:24:31,500
functioning right.
I, I hate to break it to people.

2301
02:24:31,500 --> 02:24:36,900
There's no such thing as a
society or a company or anything

2302
02:24:36,900 --> 02:24:39,100
or a family that's leaderless,
right?

2303
02:24:39,100 --> 02:24:42,200
If it's leaderless it's off the
rails and it's something

2304
02:24:42,200 --> 02:24:44,700
different.
And so hierarchy is going to

2305
02:24:44,700 --> 02:24:48,300
exist in all these structures
and hierarchy in and of itself

2306
02:24:48,308 --> 02:24:50,800
is not bad.
Like I said hierarchy is needed

2307
02:24:50,800 --> 02:24:53,500
but we have to understand that
they're it does.

2308
02:24:53,500 --> 02:24:58,000
It can come with some inherent
risks that all the infrequent

2309
02:24:58,000 --> 02:25:00,700
still deserve to be looked at
Right?

2310
02:25:00,700 --> 02:25:03,600
And with those rests because of
those risks comes a certain

2311
02:25:03,600 --> 02:25:05,700
amount of responsibility.
Yep.

2312
02:25:06,900 --> 02:25:10,700
So, and I say that
responsibility lands on is a

2313
02:25:10,700 --> 02:25:13,100
systemic or isn't it?
And yep.

2314
02:25:13,100 --> 02:25:16,500
Again, systemic means the
institution is facilitating or

2315
02:25:16,500 --> 02:25:20,500
facilitating the cover-up of or
the perpetuation of abuse.

2316
02:25:22,700 --> 02:25:26,100
Whereas otherwise it's a
one-off, you get bad eggs and

2317
02:25:26,100 --> 02:25:29,100
you deal with them.
Appropriate.

2318
02:25:30,700 --> 02:25:33,900
With what chippers?
Would sell.

2319
02:25:34,700 --> 02:25:36,100
I like it.
I like it.

2320
02:25:36,100 --> 02:25:39,400
Anyways um topics I got a few
topics.

2321
02:25:39,400 --> 02:25:44,000
I thought we could Kind of look
at here and let's talk about the

2322
02:25:44,000 --> 02:25:48,200
history and let's talk about how
that fits how these things, how

2323
02:25:48,200 --> 02:25:49,700
these things fit in our
framework, right?

2324
02:25:52,000 --> 02:25:55,800
so, First of all, plural
marriage.

2325
02:25:56,800 --> 02:25:58,600
Let's talk about plural,
marriages as a whole.

2326
02:25:59,600 --> 02:26:02,300
Okay.
Is plural, marriage.

2327
02:26:03,500 --> 02:26:07,000
A systemic harm enabled to a
violation of agency.

2328
02:26:09,000 --> 02:26:11,900
Know.
No, I don't, I don't think

2329
02:26:11,900 --> 02:26:14,200
plural marriage in and of
itself.

2330
02:26:16,000 --> 02:26:20,600
Is a system of harm I think
there are men or women that do

2331
02:26:20,600 --> 02:26:23,100
harm through that system.
At times.

2332
02:26:24,700 --> 02:26:26,300
Right.
Right.

2333
02:26:26,300 --> 02:26:31,500
But in another itself it's it's
it's it's it's no more abusive

2334
02:26:31,500 --> 02:26:33,300
than Menagerie.
It's right.

2335
02:26:33,300 --> 02:26:36,000
It's, it's a choice.
It's a force choice.

2336
02:26:36,008 --> 02:26:37,600
And that's a, that can be a
problem, right?

2337
02:26:37,600 --> 02:26:40,800
If the relationship is abused,
that can be a problem.

2338
02:26:41,800 --> 02:26:46,100
But in and of itself.
A man having more than one

2339
02:26:46,100 --> 02:26:49,200
family. having a wife and
children that he raises

2340
02:26:49,200 --> 02:26:55,200
supports, Provides for.
There's nothing, there's nothing

2341
02:26:55,200 --> 02:26:59,700
inherently.
Immoral or abusive there, right?

2342
02:27:02,200 --> 02:27:08,800
but, Just as with monogamy.
Within that some things can come

2343
02:27:08,800 --> 02:27:12,300
up, right?
And so I want to review some

2344
02:27:12,300 --> 02:27:15,800
stuff here from this book.
It's called God's brothel.

2345
02:27:15,800 --> 02:27:20,200
I'm not going to endorse it but
fuzziness won't go away.

2346
02:27:20,200 --> 02:27:21,400
We got it.
Yep.

2347
02:27:22,400 --> 02:27:26,700
By an Android more and it and
I'm not gonna endorse this book.

2348
02:27:27,500 --> 02:27:30,100
Because I can't vouch for what
it contains.

2349
02:27:31,100 --> 02:27:33,300
So, I'm not telling everybody
you need to go out and read this

2350
02:27:33,300 --> 02:27:38,300
and jump on this bandwagon.
What this book has is the

2351
02:27:38,300 --> 02:27:42,100
beginning.
It has some Ideas on Pearl,

2352
02:27:42,100 --> 02:27:45,800
marriage.
And then it has a whole bunch of

2353
02:27:45,800 --> 02:27:50,100
case, studies, of of individual
survivors, telling their

2354
02:27:50,100 --> 02:27:54,100
stories.
Unfortunately, most of these

2355
02:27:54,100 --> 02:27:57,600
stories cannot be validated.
We cannot know for sure.

2356
02:27:58,900 --> 02:28:02,300
Some of them are more.
Reliable than other than others

2357
02:28:02,308 --> 02:28:03,000
though.
Nonetheless.

2358
02:28:03,000 --> 02:28:05,600
And I think you'd have to be
foolish.

2359
02:28:07,100 --> 02:28:09,000
Very, very foolish to believe
that.

2360
02:28:09,800 --> 02:28:15,500
This isn't probably happened at
some place at some time within

2361
02:28:15,500 --> 02:28:20,700
Mormon fundamentalism.
Write the specific stories might

2362
02:28:20,700 --> 02:28:26,400
not be true.
But the situations described are

2363
02:28:26,400 --> 02:28:30,000
certainly possible, right?
We should get it.

2364
02:28:30,000 --> 02:28:32,800
And and that's the that's the
that's the Creedence I want to

2365
02:28:32,800 --> 02:28:35,000
give it.
Um, and like I said, this is a,

2366
02:28:35,000 --> 02:28:40,800
this is an anti-polygamy book.
Right now I you know, I'm not

2367
02:28:40,800 --> 02:28:44,700
plugging this.
In practice, but I do believe in

2368
02:28:44,700 --> 02:28:46,600
the principle and I have a
testimony that principal.

2369
02:28:46,600 --> 02:28:50,800
I do not believe that it is
inherently abusive. however,

2370
02:28:52,200 --> 02:28:55,500
there are women in the world and
men that believed it is.

2371
02:28:56,400 --> 02:29:01,100
And the reason they believe it
is is because of Some of the

2372
02:29:01,100 --> 02:29:05,100
things that have happened within
more than five animals and this

2373
02:29:05,100 --> 02:29:08,700
is why I want to talk about it.
It's really there's two parts.

2374
02:29:10,200 --> 02:29:15,500
on the one hand, I feel like
it's important that we defend.

2375
02:29:17,300 --> 02:29:19,600
And speak up for any potential
victims.

2376
02:29:20,600 --> 02:29:24,300
Where there has been abused, we
that needs to be called out.

2377
02:29:24,300 --> 02:29:28,600
We need to Help those people.
Yep.

2378
02:29:28,600 --> 02:29:32,300
And and help prevent future
situations like that arising.

2379
02:29:33,500 --> 02:29:36,100
But we also need to defend the
institution of pearl marriage.

2380
02:29:37,100 --> 02:29:42,500
Right.
Because This these stories of

2381
02:29:42,500 --> 02:29:48,400
abuse are going to become the
dominant narrative. and people

2382
02:29:48,400 --> 02:29:54,000
are going to start believing
that and so, I want to go over

2383
02:29:54,000 --> 02:29:56,800
this, not because I'm saying
these things happen and I know

2384
02:29:56,800 --> 02:29:58,600
that they happen and all these
stories are true.

2385
02:29:58,600 --> 02:30:05,500
I want to go over to show that.
First of all, there's there are

2386
02:30:05,500 --> 02:30:08,100
some things we need to talk
about in Mormon fundamentalism,

2387
02:30:08,100 --> 02:30:12,500
unfortunately.
And we do need to have those

2388
02:30:12,500 --> 02:30:14,400
discussions.
And I also want to bring it

2389
02:30:14,400 --> 02:30:17,900
forth.
To show that these are the

2390
02:30:17,900 --> 02:30:21,100
things that are abusive and
that's not inherent to plural

2391
02:30:21,100 --> 02:30:23,200
marriage.
These are inherent to other

2392
02:30:23,200 --> 02:30:30,900
situations that we can all agree
are abused and As as Mormons, I

2393
02:30:30,900 --> 02:30:33,000
think we can identify and
declare.

2394
02:30:33,000 --> 02:30:35,500
Yeah, that's wrong.
That's abusive.

2395
02:30:35,500 --> 02:30:38,400
We don't, we, we don't tolerate
this.

2396
02:30:38,400 --> 02:30:40,300
We don't accept this.
We don't allow this.

2397
02:30:41,100 --> 02:30:43,300
That makes sense.
Not in our name.

2398
02:30:43,308 --> 02:30:46,400
Sort of a thing.
Yeah, yeah, exactly exactly.

2399
02:30:46,400 --> 02:30:51,800
So Again, not not trying to.
Share, not trying to attack

2400
02:30:51,800 --> 02:30:56,900
anybody here.
However, in this case, and I

2401
02:30:56,900 --> 02:30:58,800
want to go over one of these
stories with you.

2402
02:31:00,600 --> 02:31:04,800
And in this case, I might call
out somebody because this is,

2403
02:31:04,800 --> 02:31:07,900
this is a story from one of Tom
Green's victims.

2404
02:31:09,200 --> 02:31:13,200
Okay, real quick let's tell for
those because you know I got I

2405
02:31:13,200 --> 02:31:17,700
got about 60% of my audience
that is our fundamentalist 40%

2406
02:31:17,700 --> 02:31:21,600
that are LDS and then 10% that
we're never more, right?

2407
02:31:21,600 --> 02:31:27,500
Or I guess it's 540 10.
My point here is there's some

2408
02:31:27,508 --> 02:31:28,900
that don't know who Tom Green
is.

2409
02:31:28,900 --> 02:31:31,900
So let's let's talk a little bit
about who Tom Green was first

2410
02:31:31,900 --> 02:31:33,900
and set the table.
Right.

2411
02:31:33,900 --> 02:31:37,500
Right.
So yeah, Tom Green.

2412
02:31:39,700 --> 02:31:42,100
I believe he came into
fundamentalism from the LDS

2413
02:31:42,100 --> 02:31:44,000
Church.
Or somewhere.

2414
02:31:44,000 --> 02:31:47,700
I don't think he was born in it.
He got generational know he's

2415
02:31:47,700 --> 02:31:51,300
not generational So he's not
generational, he comes in from

2416
02:31:51,300 --> 02:31:56,500
somewhere, and he comes in with
under initially under Ross,

2417
02:31:56,500 --> 02:31:58,000
LeBaron.
Right.

2418
02:31:59,000 --> 02:32:04,100
And when Ross ultimately dies, I
believe there was a point in

2419
02:32:04,100 --> 02:32:11,000
time when he was with Fred.
But I think more so that he kind

2420
02:32:11,000 --> 02:32:14,700
of decided he's he was the he
was the one man to continue

2421
02:32:14,700 --> 02:32:19,100
Lebanon after after Ross Wesley
labaran.

2422
02:32:20,400 --> 02:32:23,400
So he's a, he's a branch off
from the Ross West Wesley line

2423
02:32:23,400 --> 02:32:28,000
of Labyrinthian.
Or a success.

2424
02:32:28,000 --> 02:32:30,000
Well, a claim successor, right?
There's multiple.

2425
02:32:30,000 --> 02:32:32,500
It's not just Tom Green, right?
Fred call your makes that claim.

2426
02:32:32,500 --> 02:32:37,600
I believe Ross, LeBron's son.
Also, yes, named Ross made that

2427
02:32:37,600 --> 02:32:40,800
claim, and there might be more.
I don't know about that, at

2428
02:32:40,800 --> 02:32:41,800
least, at least there were
three.

2429
02:32:41,800 --> 02:32:44,900
People who claimed to be Ross,
liberians successor and

2430
02:32:44,900 --> 02:32:47,400
rossella.
Baron is basically the Utah

2431
02:32:48,600 --> 02:32:51,800
American side of Labyrinthian.
Yes.

2432
02:32:52,700 --> 02:32:56,000
Yup. so if you're in the states
and there's liberians, that's

2433
02:32:56,000 --> 02:32:58,800
probably somehow connected to
that, where if you're in Mexico,

2434
02:32:59,700 --> 02:33:03,000
It's probably more tied to Joel
or herbal or some other guys

2435
02:33:03,000 --> 02:33:08,100
that stay in Mexico and it.
I, you know, they're all

2436
02:33:08,108 --> 02:33:13,800
descendant from from Al Madera,
but Well, maybe not descended,

2437
02:33:13,800 --> 02:33:18,100
but Branch like Fred's got.
No biological descendants of

2438
02:33:18,100 --> 02:33:21,100
theological defendants, right?
And it's hard to say where where

2439
02:33:21,100 --> 02:33:23,600
what it what came in and what
left.

2440
02:33:23,600 --> 02:33:27,400
So again, I'm not making any
judgments here on anybody other

2441
02:33:27,400 --> 02:33:30,200
than maybe Tom, Green,
specifically.

2442
02:33:31,000 --> 02:33:34,600
And again this is a testimony.
I don't know that this is, I

2443
02:33:34,600 --> 02:33:38,500
don't know that this is true.
But when we get to the end of

2444
02:33:38,508 --> 02:33:42,000
the story, there are some facts
that lay out.

2445
02:33:42,000 --> 02:33:46,600
This is very likely true.
And that if even if this

2446
02:33:46,600 --> 02:33:49,900
specific one wasn't true,
there's there was probably a

2447
02:33:49,900 --> 02:33:52,300
very similar story with some
other people that absolutely is

2448
02:33:52,300 --> 02:33:55,000
true.
So, let's Let's dig in.

2449
02:33:55,000 --> 02:33:57,100
Let's dig in and do this.
Yep.

2450
02:33:58,000 --> 02:34:00,600
Okay, and I'm just gonna read
this chapter on the books, not

2451
02:34:00,600 --> 02:34:07,500
that long.
All right, with the passage of

2452
02:34:07,500 --> 02:34:10,900
time, Allison Ryan now has a
certain perspective on her

2453
02:34:10,900 --> 02:34:14,900
personal nightmare of having
been married at the age of 16 to

2454
02:34:14,900 --> 02:34:18,900
the media hungry, polygamist,
Tom Green. but there was a time

2455
02:34:18,900 --> 02:34:23,000
when she was tormented by years
of guilt, Quote, it was what he

2456
02:34:23,000 --> 02:34:26,100
made me do sexually, I just
couldn't believe I did it and

2457
02:34:26,100 --> 02:34:29,900
quote.
The guilt became so overwhelming

2458
02:34:29,900 --> 02:34:32,100
for Allison.
Eventually that Alison.

2459
02:34:32,100 --> 02:34:35,200
Eventually attempted suicide.
I couldn't live with it.

2460
02:34:35,200 --> 02:34:38,000
That I done what he wanted me to
do with him.

2461
02:34:38,000 --> 02:34:40,800
She says, it's horrible to be
treated that way.

2462
02:34:43,800 --> 02:34:48,500
Hmm.
So We already found something.

2463
02:34:48,500 --> 02:34:50,800
We already found something.
So, let's talk about this.

2464
02:34:51,900 --> 02:34:54,600
She's suggesting.
And again, we're just gonna take

2465
02:34:54,600 --> 02:34:57,000
this at face value, but we can
apply this principle, right?

2466
02:34:57,000 --> 02:34:59,500
She's implying that she did
something.

2467
02:35:01,400 --> 02:35:05,400
That something happened
non-consensuality.

2468
02:35:06,100 --> 02:35:08,500
Right.
In a sexual manner.

2469
02:35:08,500 --> 02:35:11,100
She doesn't tell us the details.
She doesn't tell us what that

2470
02:35:11,100 --> 02:35:13,600
is.
But regardless.

2471
02:35:16,500 --> 02:35:21,000
Regardless of what that was.
We can ask this question.

2472
02:35:21,000 --> 02:35:26,100
Is it abusive for a husband?
To have an interaction with

2473
02:35:26,100 --> 02:35:31,500
their, with their wife.
That she is not okay with.

2474
02:35:32,300 --> 02:35:34,700
Sexually.
No, no, no.

2475
02:35:34,700 --> 02:35:36,900
I I don't think that being
married.

2476
02:35:39,600 --> 02:35:43,400
Is one of those things that
justifies.

2477
02:35:44,200 --> 02:35:49,200
Abusing Your Wife by basically.
Telling her she just has to do

2478
02:35:49,200 --> 02:35:51,300
whatever it is.
You tell her to do in that

2479
02:35:51,308 --> 02:35:56,800
moment, right?
I am a believer there there, can

2480
02:35:56,800 --> 02:35:59,200
be there can be raping inside of
a marriage.

2481
02:36:00,400 --> 02:36:03,500
Right.
Um, and that's, that's just what

2482
02:36:03,500 --> 02:36:05,500
we're looking at here.
Yep.

2483
02:36:05,500 --> 02:36:08,200
I agree.
So there's our first example, we

2484
02:36:08,200 --> 02:36:09,900
can see that.
That would be a violation of

2485
02:36:09,900 --> 02:36:12,800
agency, right?
If she was, if she doesn't want

2486
02:36:12,800 --> 02:36:16,900
to do that, And you are forcing
her to because of your

2487
02:36:16,900 --> 02:36:20,400
relationship as her husband and
her belief that she needs to

2488
02:36:20,400 --> 02:36:24,600
obey her husband.
And that qualifies as abuse

2489
02:36:24,600 --> 02:36:27,400
right there, right?
Right.

2490
02:36:27,400 --> 02:36:29,200
So we already found one.
Let's keep going.

2491
02:36:29,200 --> 02:36:34,800
There's there's plenty more. um,
before her encounter with green,

2492
02:36:34,800 --> 02:36:41,100
Alison had been Abused at age 11
while living in North Carolina?

2493
02:36:42,400 --> 02:36:45,600
Quote, being raised LDS.
I thought I was dirty now, and

2494
02:36:45,600 --> 02:36:47,600
quote.
She says, quote guys at school

2495
02:36:47,600 --> 02:36:51,900
would grab my chest and that
just added to me to my becoming

2496
02:36:51,900 --> 02:36:57,600
very vulnerable to a predator
and quote, Okay, we found

2497
02:36:57,600 --> 02:37:05,200
something else already.
If you were like, this is not

2498
02:37:05,200 --> 02:37:08,400
she's 11 years old.
Something non-consensual

2499
02:37:08,400 --> 02:37:14,800
happens.
Sexually Is she dirty before

2500
02:37:14,800 --> 02:37:17,900
God?
No.

2501
02:37:18,900 --> 02:37:22,800
If it was against her will know.
Right?

2502
02:37:22,800 --> 02:37:25,900
No, that's that's she violated a
lot of chesty, right?

2503
02:37:27,300 --> 02:37:32,700
oh, No, no, no no.
But here's the thing, right?

2504
02:37:32,700 --> 02:37:35,000
I told you about that fiance
that I had.

2505
02:37:35,800 --> 02:37:38,600
Yeah, she believed she violated
a lot just yesterday.

2506
02:37:39,300 --> 02:37:42,000
Right.
I told you about this book paper

2507
02:37:42,000 --> 02:37:47,800
dolls. the victims there also,
part of part of the control of

2508
02:37:47,800 --> 02:37:52,000
the whole situation, Was, was
that these girls were believing

2509
02:37:52,000 --> 02:37:55,700
that they had?
Violated the law of Chastity and

2510
02:37:55,700 --> 02:37:57,000
also violated the word of
wisdom.

2511
02:37:58,800 --> 02:38:01,800
And that kept them from reaching
out for help sooner.

2512
02:38:02,900 --> 02:38:05,100
And Reporting some of the things
going on.

2513
02:38:06,100 --> 02:38:08,600
So I've got another thing.
Is it.

2514
02:38:09,700 --> 02:38:13,700
Is it is promoting a Doctrine?
That.

2515
02:38:14,700 --> 02:38:21,700
Victims of abuse.
Are dirty. or unclean before

2516
02:38:21,700 --> 02:38:27,300
God, abusive Yeah, I'd say.
So if the doctrine says, hey did

2517
02:38:27,300 --> 02:38:30,000
it doesn't matter if you
consented or not you're dirty.

2518
02:38:30,800 --> 02:38:37,100
Because of this and you just
woman was forced upon again.

2519
02:38:37,100 --> 02:38:40,500
Again against her will know
that's Right.

2520
02:38:40,500 --> 02:38:43,600
Yeah.
And this is a hard one because I

2521
02:38:43,600 --> 02:38:45,700
don't believe the LDS church
teaches that it is either.

2522
02:38:45,700 --> 02:38:49,200
But culturally, it's kind of
believe that it is by a lot of

2523
02:38:49,200 --> 02:38:52,700
young people.
Write a lot of young people and

2524
02:38:52,700 --> 02:38:58,400
a lot of the victims. and, While
I don't say that the LDS church

2525
02:38:58,400 --> 02:39:02,300
is necessarily responsible or
that fundamentalist or

2526
02:39:02,300 --> 02:39:04,900
necessarily responsible for a
misinterpretation of the

2527
02:39:04,900 --> 02:39:11,000
doctrine. knowing that this is a
common situation and it is I've

2528
02:39:12,600 --> 02:39:14,800
Like I said, personal
experience.

2529
02:39:16,400 --> 02:39:18,800
I think it's really important
when you teach the law of

2530
02:39:18,800 --> 02:39:23,800
Chastity.
To teach that abuse is not you

2531
02:39:23,800 --> 02:39:26,800
violating the law of Chastity
and that doesn't make you

2532
02:39:26,800 --> 02:39:28,900
unclean.
It doesn't make you less worthy.

2533
02:39:28,900 --> 02:39:30,700
It doesn't make you chewed up
bubble gum.

2534
02:39:31,600 --> 02:39:34,700
Right?
Because that was taught the LDS

2535
02:39:34,700 --> 02:39:35,400
church, right?
Yep.

2536
02:39:35,400 --> 02:39:40,800
And look, there is a certain
truth to if somebody is being

2537
02:39:40,800 --> 02:39:43,500
promiscuous.
Yeah.

2538
02:39:44,400 --> 02:39:50,400
That it does lower their value,
not to God, but certainly to

2539
02:39:50,400 --> 02:39:52,800
their fellow beings and how they
will be treated.

2540
02:39:52,800 --> 02:39:55,500
It's not a good thing to do, you
shouldn't be promiscuous.

2541
02:39:55,500 --> 02:39:57,200
It will lower.
Right.

2542
02:39:57,200 --> 02:40:03,300
It will lower the woman's value.
However, that doesn't mean she's

2543
02:40:03,300 --> 02:40:06,500
valueless doesn't mean.
She can't repent and change and

2544
02:40:06,500 --> 02:40:10,800
be just as valuable again. but
the worst part of that story is

2545
02:40:10,800 --> 02:40:13,200
when things happen
unconsensually because the

2546
02:40:13,200 --> 02:40:15,700
chewed up bubble gum is chewed
up bubblegum, it doesn't matter

2547
02:40:15,700 --> 02:40:18,700
whether you ask for it or not,
right?

2548
02:40:18,700 --> 02:40:23,000
And when you've got that analogy
in your head, that if you have

2549
02:40:23,000 --> 02:40:27,100
relations outside of marriage or
chewed up bubble gum, and this

2550
02:40:27,100 --> 02:40:31,100
happens to you involuntarily,
How can you not think that?

2551
02:40:31,100 --> 02:40:32,600
Now, I'm chewed up bubblegum.
Sure.

2552
02:40:32,600 --> 02:40:36,700
I didn't choose to But now, I am
nonetheless.

2553
02:40:38,800 --> 02:40:39,800
Alright.
Alright.

2554
02:40:41,000 --> 02:40:43,900
Yeah, and that was the thing
that was always missing, right?

2555
02:40:43,900 --> 02:40:46,300
It wasn't.
And, you know, I want to say

2556
02:40:46,308 --> 02:40:47,700
this, I don't think they said
out.

2557
02:40:48,400 --> 02:40:54,800
To. to teach the principal that
even if you are forced, you're

2558
02:40:54,800 --> 02:40:56,300
that chewed up bubble gum,
right?

2559
02:40:56,300 --> 02:41:01,200
It was just something that they
overlooked in trying to give

2560
02:41:01,200 --> 02:41:02,900
context to the rest of the
lesson.

2561
02:41:02,900 --> 02:41:06,100
Yep.
And and it's something

2562
02:41:06,100 --> 02:41:08,900
unintentional unintentionally.
It's not yep.

2563
02:41:08,900 --> 02:41:11,600
Yeah, it's not something they
set out to do.

2564
02:41:11,600 --> 02:41:17,200
And look, I've taken I've taken
my my share of umbrage with the

2565
02:41:17,200 --> 02:41:20,000
church, right?
I've called them out when I felt

2566
02:41:20,000 --> 02:41:21,900
like they were, they were in the
wrong.

2567
02:41:21,900 --> 02:41:28,400
But on that one I don't
necessarily see that as a A

2568
02:41:28,400 --> 02:41:33,500
grooming of victims, right?
I think that was just a lesson

2569
02:41:33,508 --> 02:41:37,200
that maybe needed some further
context, right?

2570
02:41:37,200 --> 02:41:41,100
A lesson that needed further
context and that holds me if

2571
02:41:41,100 --> 02:41:43,100
it's still being.
Repeated is given the full

2572
02:41:43,100 --> 02:41:46,100
context with those disclaimers
every time.

2573
02:41:46,100 --> 02:41:50,400
Because if you're going to teach
Loft Chassidy, You got to talk

2574
02:41:50,400 --> 02:41:53,600
about?
That it's not a violation of law

2575
02:41:53,600 --> 02:41:56,100
of Chastity.
If you did not consent, right?

2576
02:41:56,100 --> 02:41:59,900
Absolutely.
And this is not just the LDS

2577
02:41:59,900 --> 02:42:02,400
Church.
We have to deal with this and in

2578
02:42:02,400 --> 02:42:06,800
fundamentalism as well. because,
This all so exists in

2579
02:42:06,800 --> 02:42:09,400
fundamentalism, I'm not gonna go
on the details, but I know that

2580
02:42:09,400 --> 02:42:10,900
this exists in fundamentalism as
well.

2581
02:42:10,900 --> 02:42:14,100
I know for a fact that it does
the same belief culture.

2582
02:42:14,100 --> 02:42:16,100
I'm not saying that the
fundamentals organizations are

2583
02:42:16,100 --> 02:42:20,200
promoting this and teaching it
that that you are just as bad

2584
02:42:20,200 --> 02:42:23,700
rather, whether it was
consensual or not, but the

2585
02:42:23,700 --> 02:42:27,100
belief among victims is that
they are just as bad.

2586
02:42:28,200 --> 02:42:31,300
Yep.
So, all right.

2587
02:42:32,300 --> 02:42:34,700
Glad we address that.
How do we address that?

2588
02:42:35,600 --> 02:42:37,600
And this this leads to another
problem, too.

2589
02:42:37,600 --> 02:42:40,800
This is telling the story after
the fact, right?

2590
02:42:41,800 --> 02:42:45,800
Right.
There are certain and I have

2591
02:42:45,800 --> 02:42:50,800
done a little bit of research
into some of this and people

2592
02:42:50,800 --> 02:42:54,400
that are predators, that have
bad intent, that desire to

2593
02:42:54,400 --> 02:42:56,200
abuse.
They know that they look for

2594
02:42:56,200 --> 02:42:58,300
victims that will keep their
secrets.

2595
02:42:58,300 --> 02:43:02,800
Yep.
And or they produce, they groom

2596
02:43:02,800 --> 02:43:04,800
victims that will keep their
secrets.

2597
02:43:05,700 --> 02:43:09,300
And they know what kind of
personalities and struggles to

2598
02:43:09,300 --> 02:43:13,100
look for and children children
with low self-esteem.

2599
02:43:14,300 --> 02:43:18,700
Yes, and she's describing.
That's, that's a potential

2600
02:43:18,700 --> 02:43:20,600
victim.
Those children need extra

2601
02:43:20,600 --> 02:43:23,200
attention.
They need extra attention.

2602
02:43:23,200 --> 02:43:26,100
If you've got a child in your
family, that's maybe struggled

2603
02:43:26,100 --> 02:43:29,200
with himself as Steam.
You got to keep extra closed

2604
02:43:29,200 --> 02:43:33,100
eyes on those ones to make sure
that nobody's taking their

2605
02:43:33,100 --> 02:43:37,100
vulnerable state and
manipulating it. 100%.

2606
02:43:39,100 --> 02:43:43,200
So just as Alison was
celebrating her 16th birthday in

2607
02:43:43,200 --> 02:43:45,400
1989.
This is important in the Years

2608
02:43:45,400 --> 02:43:46,900
1989 too.
Right.

2609
02:43:49,200 --> 02:43:55,000
I'm, I'm eight years old, at
this point. so, She's 16, I'm 8.

2610
02:43:55,000 --> 02:43:58,300
So this isn't that far off this
isn't that, this isn't this

2611
02:43:58,300 --> 02:44:01,600
isn't Generations in the past.
This is that way, way back.

2612
02:44:01,600 --> 02:44:03,900
This is, this is this isn't way
way back.

2613
02:44:03,900 --> 02:44:07,500
Yeah.
Her parents moved their family

2614
02:44:07,500 --> 02:44:10,400
into a trailer park in Sandy
Utah and an effort to be closer

2615
02:44:10,400 --> 02:44:15,000
to the Mormon church.
Again, too trailer park.

2616
02:44:15,000 --> 02:44:16,600
So family doesn't have a lot of
money, right?

2617
02:44:17,600 --> 02:44:20,600
Right.
Maybe another Advantage a little

2618
02:44:20,608 --> 02:44:23,300
bit that way.
Yeah yeah that does not.

2619
02:44:23,308 --> 02:44:26,600
You got to keep an eye on on
these people and that they need

2620
02:44:26,600 --> 02:44:29,200
extra protection.
Anxious to make new friends.

2621
02:44:30,100 --> 02:44:32,900
The Ryan's sisters soon.
Discovered the large green

2622
02:44:32,900 --> 02:44:37,100
family living next to them.
They had 20 people in a single

2623
02:44:37,100 --> 02:44:42,000
wide trailer.
She says, oh, All right, time to

2624
02:44:42,000 --> 02:44:42,900
talk.
It's time to stop.

2625
02:44:42,900 --> 02:44:45,700
We gotta we gotta discuss this.
We got to talk about this one

2626
02:44:45,700 --> 02:44:48,300
here too.
I believe.

2627
02:44:49,500 --> 02:44:58,300
In Pearl marriage, I believe in
large families. but, There.

2628
02:45:00,000 --> 02:45:07,200
Are exceptions. it is not
responsible to have children or

2629
02:45:07,200 --> 02:45:13,200
take wives as a man that you
cannot provide for Yep.

2630
02:45:14,600 --> 02:45:18,600
And men need to be providers.
It's I think there's nothing

2631
02:45:18,600 --> 02:45:21,100
wrong with a woman finding ways
to help out.

2632
02:45:22,100 --> 02:45:25,500
I'm not saying that it's that
women have to stay in the in the

2633
02:45:25,500 --> 02:45:27,800
kitchen cooking all day.
I think it's okay for women to

2634
02:45:27,800 --> 02:45:34,700
have jobs even but, but, It's
the man's responsibility to

2635
02:45:34,700 --> 02:45:40,000
provide, yes. and if you've got
20 people piled into a single

2636
02:45:40,000 --> 02:45:47,000
wide, Trailer.
Before having any more children

2637
02:45:47,000 --> 02:45:51,200
and before taking on any more
wives and that situation you

2638
02:45:51,200 --> 02:45:55,800
need to get your stuff together.
Absolutely, absolutely.

2639
02:45:55,800 --> 02:45:58,400
And look, I'll go so far as
this.

2640
02:46:00,600 --> 02:46:04,800
If?
if it's is, I do believe there's

2641
02:46:04,800 --> 02:46:09,100
more to look at in a In a
husband, or a wife and their

2642
02:46:09,100 --> 02:46:16,300
financial standing, right?
And so if If a man takes plural

2643
02:46:16,300 --> 02:46:20,800
wife and she knows, hey, he's
not, he's not exactly, you know.

2644
02:46:21,800 --> 02:46:26,300
Jimmy and Warren Buffett, excuse
me, wrong Buffett, not exactly

2645
02:46:26,300 --> 02:46:30,200
Warren Buffett.
Um hey, whatever their

2646
02:46:30,200 --> 02:46:31,700
consenting adults and I'm down,
right?

2647
02:46:31,700 --> 02:46:35,900
But as a dude, you should
probably be in a position to

2648
02:46:35,900 --> 02:46:40,600
where You have a desire to
provide the best that you can

2649
02:46:40,600 --> 02:46:46,200
there, right?
And likewise, if that man was

2650
02:46:46,200 --> 02:46:50,400
doing well before but then goes
through financial hardship.

2651
02:46:51,500 --> 02:46:54,800
Based off of, you know, a
downturn in the economy, right?

2652
02:46:54,800 --> 02:46:59,600
That's not a reason to blow up
plural, family, either of

2653
02:46:59,600 --> 02:47:02,300
course.
And so, just just a little bit

2654
02:47:02,300 --> 02:47:04,700
of context there on on what
we're talking about.

2655
02:47:04,700 --> 02:47:08,300
I would hate for someone to be
like, well, Yes, my husband lost

2656
02:47:08,300 --> 02:47:14,600
his job, I guess time for me to
move on right now if you're if

2657
02:47:14,600 --> 02:47:17,900
he's if he's a deadbeat right?
If he's not trying, if he's not

2658
02:47:17,900 --> 02:47:21,900
doing it what you know making
the effort pulling out all the

2659
02:47:21,900 --> 02:47:24,600
stops, I think there is a
conversation to be had.

2660
02:47:24,600 --> 02:47:28,200
But by and large I think, I
think, you know, we're not

2661
02:47:28,200 --> 02:47:34,300
talking about Ditching a family.
Because Financial hardships

2662
02:47:34,300 --> 02:47:38,300
come, I know, I know I know a
few poor polygamists and

2663
02:47:38,300 --> 02:47:40,900
sometimes that's just the nature
of things.

2664
02:47:41,700 --> 02:47:43,300
Yeah.
It's not going to.

2665
02:47:43,308 --> 02:47:45,700
I was raced in a portion of your
point.

2666
02:47:45,700 --> 02:47:46,800
Yeah.
Yeah.

2667
02:47:46,800 --> 02:47:48,100
To your point.
That's okay.

2668
02:47:49,700 --> 02:47:54,800
Yeah, to your point though.
You should try to be in the best

2669
02:47:54,800 --> 02:47:58,200
position you can be.
Before you enter that principle

2670
02:47:58,200 --> 02:48:01,900
because it is going to be on you
at some point to provide.

2671
02:48:02,800 --> 02:48:05,300
And you need to you, you need to
have a plan, right?

2672
02:48:05,300 --> 02:48:09,400
Sometimes, I think the Lord
really spoiled me.

2673
02:48:11,200 --> 02:48:13,500
I don't, I don't make a million.
I do.

2674
02:48:13,500 --> 02:48:17,200
Okay, right.
But I also, you know, Amber was

2675
02:48:17,200 --> 02:48:19,600
done having kids and wanted to
go back to work by the time

2676
02:48:19,600 --> 02:48:24,000
Tonya came along right and that
makes that a little easier,

2677
02:48:24,000 --> 02:48:26,700
right?
Um, and I'm with you there's

2678
02:48:26,700 --> 02:48:29,700
there's nothing wrong with with
a woman holding down a job.

2679
02:48:29,708 --> 02:48:33,800
If she desires I you know I I do
think that while the kids are

2680
02:48:33,800 --> 02:48:36,000
young, it's probably a good idea
to have.

2681
02:48:36,900 --> 02:48:39,400
At least a moment at home to
look after the kids.

2682
02:48:39,400 --> 02:48:42,600
Yeah.
But, you know, I think that is

2683
02:48:42,600 --> 02:48:44,800
one of the beauties of plural
marriage that is offered.

2684
02:48:44,800 --> 02:48:47,400
Is it, you know?
And I believe it was either

2685
02:48:47,400 --> 02:48:50,400
Martha, Hughes Cannon, or Eliza
R snow, or maybe both.

2686
02:48:50,400 --> 02:48:52,900
I can't remember who basically
said as much.

2687
02:48:52,900 --> 02:48:55,600
Right?
That that, you know, plural,

2688
02:48:55,600 --> 02:48:56,800
marriage offered her an
opportunity.

2689
02:48:57,900 --> 02:48:59,800
To do something other than baked
bread.

2690
02:48:59,800 --> 02:49:02,200
All day.
Yeah.

2691
02:49:02,200 --> 02:49:06,700
Yeah. 100%.
Yeah, so let's keep going.

2692
02:49:06,700 --> 02:49:09,600
But again there that's a sign.
That's a that might not be just

2693
02:49:09,600 --> 02:49:12,800
an outright abuse but that's a
red flag.

2694
02:49:13,600 --> 02:49:15,600
That's a red flag.
Yep.

2695
02:49:16,900 --> 02:49:20,300
She says, I became friends with
his kids that summer and when

2696
02:49:20,300 --> 02:49:24,200
Tom and His Four wives went to
Amway conventions, they would

2697
02:49:24,200 --> 02:49:27,100
have me babysit even though they
had kids my age.

2698
02:49:31,300 --> 02:49:34,500
Afterwards like to.
Yeah, another red flag.

2699
02:49:37,100 --> 02:49:39,700
Why, you know?
Look.

2700
02:49:43,100 --> 02:49:47,400
I think this is just me, right?
Courtship should be courtship

2701
02:49:47,400 --> 02:49:49,100
interaction, should be
interaction.

2702
02:49:50,200 --> 02:49:53,000
If you need a babysitter and you
got somebody come over, they

2703
02:49:53,000 --> 02:49:57,100
should be there to babysit.
Yep, if you want to date that

2704
02:49:57,100 --> 02:49:59,200
person, you should ask them out
on the date.

2705
02:49:59,200 --> 02:50:02,300
Not asking to come baby set.
Right.

2706
02:50:02,300 --> 02:50:03,900
Right.
Absolutely.

2707
02:50:05,400 --> 02:50:10,800
Keep keep your motivations clear
and up front and again red flag.

2708
02:50:10,800 --> 02:50:14,600
I wouldn't necessarily call that
abuse that you're you're walking

2709
02:50:14,600 --> 02:50:16,700
a line though.
You're walking the line because

2710
02:50:16,700 --> 02:50:19,200
that can become abusive because
that person could have different

2711
02:50:19,200 --> 02:50:24,700
expectations well, look in this
scenario, like I get this

2712
02:50:24,700 --> 02:50:28,700
probably 20 bucks to pay that
babysitter, but if your whole

2713
02:50:28,700 --> 02:50:32,500
family is living in a single
wide trailer, hmm, you could

2714
02:50:32,500 --> 02:50:35,100
probably save the 20 bucks for
some other things, right?

2715
02:50:35,100 --> 02:50:38,200
Especially if you got it just
said that there were kids at

2716
02:50:38,200 --> 02:50:39,900
home.
There were kids at home that

2717
02:50:39,900 --> 02:50:42,400
were there.
That was this babysitter's age?

2718
02:50:42,400 --> 02:50:45,100
That's a red flag.
Yeah, like yeah.

2719
02:50:46,200 --> 02:50:48,400
That's a red flag.
It makes me think he's got other

2720
02:50:48,400 --> 02:50:51,300
intentions for her being there
and he's not being up front with

2721
02:50:51,300 --> 02:50:53,900
her about them.
Right.

2722
02:50:55,200 --> 02:50:58,500
Absolutely.
So the babysitting became more

2723
02:50:58,500 --> 02:51:00,300
and more.
Regular as Greensboro wife, took

2724
02:51:00,300 --> 02:51:05,100
an interest in Allison.
An interest that was instigated

2725
02:51:05,100 --> 02:51:10,500
by Green. quote one time when my
little sister and I came to the

2726
02:51:10,500 --> 02:51:13,700
babysitter Tom turned, his 16
year old stepson and said,

2727
02:51:13,700 --> 02:51:19,900
either you marry them or I will
Oh, jeez.

2728
02:51:22,700 --> 02:51:25,300
Whoo.
Okay, okay.

2729
02:51:27,000 --> 02:51:30,100
Now, we've left red flags and
started going into creeper

2730
02:51:30,100 --> 02:51:32,400
territory.
Right.

2731
02:51:32,400 --> 02:51:35,400
And as a parents, anybody out
there was her parents right?

2732
02:51:35,400 --> 02:51:39,900
You're always Right.
Hopefully hopefully if you're a

2733
02:51:39,900 --> 02:51:43,800
parent, you didn't just go then.
Um, yeah.

2734
02:51:45,500 --> 02:51:47,800
Then pay attention, pay
attention.

2735
02:51:49,000 --> 02:51:50,200
What happens here.
Absolutely.

2736
02:51:52,000 --> 02:51:54,100
Because that should trigger a
survival.

2737
02:51:54,100 --> 02:51:56,500
Instinct, a defensive Instinct
in your children.

2738
02:51:57,700 --> 02:52:01,600
If you don't have children.
You're imagined.

2739
02:52:01,600 --> 02:52:06,500
Future children should
Absolutely, what kind of the

2740
02:52:06,508 --> 02:52:09,700
joke is that?
And it's them right?

2741
02:52:09,700 --> 02:52:13,400
And you know, she's she's 16
there with her younger sister

2742
02:52:13,400 --> 02:52:19,200
and And again.
This is not way way back when.

2743
02:52:20,700 --> 02:52:24,300
Know this is this is the late
80s, early 90s.

2744
02:52:24,300 --> 02:52:26,400
Yep.
This is early 90s.

2745
02:52:28,900 --> 02:52:29,700
Late 80s.
Really nice.

2746
02:52:31,000 --> 02:52:34,000
All right.
Suffering with untreated

2747
02:52:34,000 --> 02:52:36,400
depression and painfully
self-conscious of her weight

2748
02:52:36,400 --> 02:52:38,100
gain.
Allison began alcohol, high

2749
02:52:38,100 --> 02:52:40,400
school as a friendless unlovable
new kid in town.

2750
02:52:40,400 --> 02:52:44,100
Her solution was simply to drop
out of school quote, my mom told

2751
02:52:44,100 --> 02:52:47,200
me to get a job, but I ended up
having a lot of free time.

2752
02:52:47,200 --> 02:52:50,600
She says, so I spent it with the
only other kids around the green

2753
02:52:50,600 --> 02:53:00,400
kids Mm-hmm. so, One evening.
Green asked Allison on a date.

2754
02:53:02,400 --> 02:53:05,800
Tom greens.
And Allison 16.

2755
02:53:05,800 --> 02:53:08,500
He said, 16.
So let's talk about this.

2756
02:53:08,500 --> 02:53:11,500
Let's talk about this right now.
We were gonna have to deal with

2757
02:53:11,500 --> 02:53:15,500
this at some point.
Just let me pause for just a

2758
02:53:15,500 --> 02:53:17,300
minute for a quick break.
Okay.

2759
02:53:23,000 --> 02:53:26,400
So yeah, let's talk about this
age difference for just a bit.

2760
02:53:26,400 --> 02:53:27,700
I think that's where you were
going.

2761
02:53:27,700 --> 02:53:29,000
Yeah.
Yeah.

2762
02:53:29,000 --> 02:53:32,900
And look I don't necessarily
have an issue with an age

2763
02:53:32,900 --> 02:53:36,900
difference.
But I do have an issue with.

2764
02:53:37,800 --> 02:53:40,000
An underage.
Right.

2765
02:53:41,000 --> 02:53:43,500
Um, participant in a
relationship.

2766
02:53:45,100 --> 02:53:50,900
Right.
So, in America, today in the

2767
02:53:50,900 --> 02:53:57,600
world, we live in today.
You generally speaking need to

2768
02:53:57,600 --> 02:54:00,000
be 18 to get married.
Right.

2769
02:54:00,000 --> 02:54:02,300
Right.
Yep.

2770
02:54:03,300 --> 02:54:08,800
And having relations under 18
outside of marriage.

2771
02:54:10,300 --> 02:54:12,200
With.
Somebody.

2772
02:54:13,500 --> 02:54:16,800
Old enough to be too old,
usually two or three years.

2773
02:54:18,400 --> 02:54:21,400
Is illegal.
It's called statutory rape.

2774
02:54:22,300 --> 02:54:27,400
Right.
Why do these laws exist and are

2775
02:54:27,400 --> 02:54:32,300
they and should they exist?
Let's wrong with the 15 year old

2776
02:54:32,300 --> 02:54:34,400
bride.
What's wrong with the 13 year

2777
02:54:34,400 --> 02:54:38,500
old bride?
Well, they're not look.

2778
02:54:41,300 --> 02:54:45,200
They're not mature enough today.
Okay, and I'm just gonna call

2779
02:54:45,200 --> 02:54:47,900
like, I see it because look, we
can't have this conversation

2780
02:54:47,900 --> 02:54:51,600
without addressing.
What Joseph did during the novel

2781
02:54:51,600 --> 02:54:52,800
period, right?
Right.

2782
02:54:52,800 --> 02:54:58,200
I do not want to to not address
that.

2783
02:54:58,200 --> 02:55:02,200
I think it's super important.
Here is the difference, right?

2784
02:55:02,200 --> 02:55:04,100
And look, you know, I'm a
student of History.

2785
02:55:04,100 --> 02:55:09,100
I love history, I love American
history, I love Mormon history,

2786
02:55:09,100 --> 02:55:13,100
I dig it.
But one of the things that we,

2787
02:55:13,100 --> 02:55:17,200
that a lot of people fall,
victim of is what's called

2788
02:55:17,200 --> 02:55:20,600
presentism, right?
Where they will take their own

2789
02:55:20,600 --> 02:55:28,700
social, and cultural more
leanings, and apply that back in

2790
02:55:28,700 --> 02:55:30,800
the past to other individuals,
right?

2791
02:55:30,800 --> 02:55:34,800
In this case, it'd be just Smith
and we hear it a lot from those

2792
02:55:34,800 --> 02:55:38,800
who are antagonistic to the
restored gospel that Joseph was

2793
02:55:38,800 --> 02:55:44,900
a pedophile because he he
married the 15 year old girl.

2794
02:55:46,900 --> 02:55:50,200
They are practicing presentism
in that very moment.

2795
02:55:50,200 --> 02:55:54,900
And here's how I know.
Because during that time period,

2796
02:55:54,900 --> 02:55:59,700
there was a lot of single men
who may be were widowers who

2797
02:55:59,700 --> 02:56:03,300
married a woman.
And I used the term woman here

2798
02:56:03,300 --> 02:56:07,800
because of the time period who
was significantly younger than

2799
02:56:07,800 --> 02:56:12,100
they were 15 16 years old and it
wasn't to Scandal.

2800
02:56:12,100 --> 02:56:16,700
It only became a scandal because
plural marriage was involved,

2801
02:56:16,700 --> 02:56:19,300
right?
If we went through the thought,

2802
02:56:19,300 --> 02:56:22,800
exercise that if Emma would have
died and Joseph never would have

2803
02:56:22,800 --> 02:56:25,500
introduced plural marriage.
There may have been a few

2804
02:56:25,508 --> 02:56:29,100
eyebrows that were raised, but
it's not the Scandal.

2805
02:56:29,100 --> 02:56:32,200
It is We don't, we wouldn't hear
about it.

2806
02:56:32,200 --> 02:56:33,800
We wouldn't think to twice about
it.

2807
02:56:33,800 --> 02:56:34,900
We'd read it.
And go.

2808
02:56:34,908 --> 02:56:38,500
Oh, that seems a little young,
but where it's not in polygamy,

2809
02:56:38,500 --> 02:56:39,500
it wouldn't have been such a big
deal.

2810
02:56:39,500 --> 02:56:44,000
So, my contention is this, when
you look back at history and you

2811
02:56:44,000 --> 02:56:46,500
look at that time, period.
What do you find?

2812
02:56:46,500 --> 02:56:50,700
Will you find that that a young?
A young person was becoming a,

2813
02:56:50,700 --> 02:56:54,100
an adult much sooner.
They might still live with their

2814
02:56:54,100 --> 02:56:57,200
family.
If it's a young woman, but for

2815
02:56:57,200 --> 02:57:00,300
the young men, it was nothing to
be out on your own at 15, 16

2816
02:57:00,300 --> 02:57:03,800
years old, learning a trade or
working with Dad on the farm or

2817
02:57:03,800 --> 02:57:07,700
something like that.
And so taking a 15 year old

2818
02:57:07,700 --> 02:57:12,100
today and superimposing that 15
year old on Helen Mark, Kimball

2819
02:57:12,100 --> 02:57:16,500
doesn't hold water, it's not,
you can't do that, it's a false

2820
02:57:16,500 --> 02:57:20,900
measurement and to me, this is
where where the rub comes in.

2821
02:57:22,900 --> 02:57:27,200
Yeah, absolutely, and this is
this is where we need to.

2822
02:57:27,200 --> 02:57:32,900
I think we need to be careful.
because, it was a different

2823
02:57:32,908 --> 02:57:37,600
world, it was a different
circumstance, and when you look

2824
02:57:37,600 --> 02:57:42,900
at families back then, Yep.
Families were struggling to

2825
02:57:42,900 --> 02:57:46,300
survive.
Yes, it wasn't like the world we

2826
02:57:46,300 --> 02:57:48,500
live in.
It was life and death out there.

2827
02:57:49,200 --> 02:57:52,800
And you were always just one
mistake away from death.

2828
02:57:53,800 --> 02:57:57,600
Yep.
It was a hard life children, had

2829
02:57:57,600 --> 02:58:01,600
to grow up fast, they had to
grow up fast because the life

2830
02:58:01,600 --> 02:58:04,400
expectancy wasn't that long
either, right?

2831
02:58:04,400 --> 02:58:11,000
Oh, you were old and you're 50s.
yeah, and so similar to the way

2832
02:58:11,000 --> 02:58:15,500
that, you know, as Gen X, we
were raised with the lot of a

2833
02:58:15,500 --> 02:58:18,100
bit of freedom.
Nothing like those earlier

2834
02:58:18,100 --> 02:58:21,400
Generations, though.
No nothing like those earlier

2835
02:58:21,400 --> 02:58:24,800
Generations.
They had even More freedom to be

2836
02:58:24,800 --> 02:58:29,000
adults. when at what we're
looking at today saying those

2837
02:58:29,000 --> 02:58:32,800
are just kids know, they told me
they were adults.

2838
02:58:33,900 --> 02:58:37,700
George Washington at 16. 17
years old is leading a whole

2839
02:58:37,700 --> 02:58:43,900
party passed the front here into
the Ohio to perform a survey.

2840
02:58:44,600 --> 02:58:51,400
In Indian infested country.
crossing rivers like, That's a

2841
02:58:51,408 --> 02:58:54,500
different 1617 year old that's
operating, right?

2842
02:58:54,500 --> 02:58:58,000
Yep.
Exactly what in perspective.

2843
02:58:58,000 --> 02:59:02,300
It's less than 100 years.
From when Washington's doing

2844
02:59:02,300 --> 02:59:05,800
that.
To Joseph Smith, it's about 50

2845
02:59:05,800 --> 02:59:07,200
years.
Yeah.

2846
02:59:08,600 --> 02:59:13,700
So, but clearly something has
changed from Joseph Smith, Stay?

2847
02:59:15,300 --> 02:59:21,800
to now, yep, because 14 year old
boys are not prepared to leave

2848
02:59:21,800 --> 02:59:23,900
home and make their Mark in the
world.

2849
02:59:24,700 --> 02:59:27,200
They're not prepared, they don't
have the experience the skills,

2850
02:59:27,200 --> 02:59:29,800
the maturity, none of it.
Nope.

2851
02:59:31,100 --> 02:59:33,900
Neither are the young girls.
They're not ready to become

2852
02:59:33,900 --> 02:59:35,600
mothers.
They're not ready to run a

2853
02:59:35,600 --> 02:59:37,100
household.
They're not ready to.

2854
02:59:38,400 --> 02:59:41,700
They have other things.
That need to happen.

2855
02:59:41,700 --> 02:59:43,600
And we have a system that goes
very slow.

2856
02:59:44,500 --> 02:59:47,500
Part of this I think is a cause
of the education system.

2857
02:59:47,500 --> 02:59:51,800
We created this one.
This fit all education system

2858
02:59:51,800 --> 02:59:55,700
that you go through and you
graduate high school around 18.

2859
02:59:56,700 --> 03:00:01,900
and, you compare high school
students today to 12 year olds

2860
03:00:01,900 --> 03:00:06,800
in the in the early American
period and And you will find

2861
03:00:06,800 --> 03:00:10,900
them about equally educated.
If not the 12 year, olds being

2862
03:00:10,900 --> 03:00:15,700
more educated, Yep, we have
dragged it out and we have

2863
03:00:15,700 --> 03:00:20,300
lowest common denominator
systems where we don't allow

2864
03:00:20,300 --> 03:00:23,100
children to mature either though
because you can't really get

2865
03:00:23,100 --> 03:00:26,500
ahead in the system.
It's designed to get everybody

2866
03:00:26,500 --> 03:00:29,600
on that conveyor belt and you're
going to come off that conveyor

2867
03:00:29,600 --> 03:00:32,000
belt at 18.
And then you're ready.

2868
03:00:33,300 --> 03:00:35,000
But everything's been planned
out.

2869
03:00:35,008 --> 03:00:37,600
We're going to teach you this.
That you need to know at 17.

2870
03:00:37,600 --> 03:00:39,600
We're gonna teach you this.
That you need to know 16.

2871
03:00:39,600 --> 03:00:44,400
We'll teach you this at 15.
So if you're not 18 yet, you're

2872
03:00:44,400 --> 03:00:49,000
not done growing up.
It wasn't, it's not part of the

2873
03:00:49,000 --> 03:00:52,400
system anymore.
You're not an adult and because

2874
03:00:52,400 --> 03:00:55,800
you're not an adult.
You don't have the same agency.

2875
03:00:56,800 --> 03:00:58,900
And that's that's the kicker,
right?

2876
03:00:58,900 --> 03:01:03,000
I'm gonna, I'm gonna share a
personal family story here, the

2877
03:01:03,000 --> 03:01:08,300
little embarrassing maybe in
some ways, but so, My grandpa.

2878
03:01:11,300 --> 03:01:14,700
His dad died when he was five.
Because again, just to clarify,

2879
03:01:14,700 --> 03:01:17,200
you're not a generational world,
right?

2880
03:01:17,200 --> 03:01:20,500
And, and I want to clarify
because I think this is going to

2881
03:01:20,500 --> 03:01:24,300
be important, your grandfather
and your grandmother were not

2882
03:01:24,300 --> 03:01:29,500
fundamentalists know their LDS.
They were earlier they were LDS,

2883
03:01:29,500 --> 03:01:31,000
okay?
I just want to get that out

2884
03:01:31,000 --> 03:01:33,400
there because that is an
important part of the story.

2885
03:01:33,400 --> 03:01:35,700
This is it is important.
It's important to understand

2886
03:01:35,708 --> 03:01:37,900
that.
So, yeah, their LDS, they're not

2887
03:01:37,908 --> 03:01:41,700
fundamentalist, I'm the first
fundamentalist in my family line

2888
03:01:41,700 --> 03:01:49,800
since, since since Well, Israel
Barlow was kind of the

2889
03:01:49,808 --> 03:01:51,400
fundamentalist.
I mean, he didn't break off from

2890
03:01:51,400 --> 03:01:54,100
the church.
He didn't need to but right.

2891
03:01:54,100 --> 03:01:56,100
Right.
Yeah.

2892
03:01:56,100 --> 03:02:03,000
So anyways, so, um, So Grandpa's
dad dies at five because he's

2893
03:02:03,000 --> 03:02:06,600
working double shifts, they're
struggling to make ends meet in

2894
03:02:06,600 --> 03:02:09,000
California, and it's a hard
life.

2895
03:02:09,800 --> 03:02:10,900
Right.
He gets a step.

2896
03:02:10,900 --> 03:02:12,900
Dad, his stepdad, doesn't treat
him very well.

2897
03:02:13,800 --> 03:02:17,100
I think and he's off at a very
young age.

2898
03:02:17,100 --> 03:02:19,300
He does not wait till he's 18 to
leave home.

2899
03:02:19,300 --> 03:02:21,800
He is out of there.
I think it was around 14.

2900
03:02:23,300 --> 03:02:27,500
Off making his way in the world.
It's already an amped again.

2901
03:02:27,508 --> 03:02:32,200
Starting up again about what
year would this have been Oh,

2902
03:02:32,200 --> 03:02:37,900
geez.
This I think would be some

2903
03:02:37,900 --> 03:02:41,500
probably somewhere in the 30s or
40s, 1937 40s.

2904
03:02:42,100 --> 03:02:43,900
That's kind of what I thought,
but I just wanted to throw it

2905
03:02:43,900 --> 03:02:45,000
out there.
Yeah.

2906
03:02:46,100 --> 03:02:53,100
So anyway, like Grandpa moves to
Utah. and he's going to the

2907
03:02:53,100 --> 03:02:56,600
dances and stuff, right?
and he sees this pretty young

2908
03:02:56,600 --> 03:03:00,600
girl, and About his age and they
start, they start dating.

2909
03:03:02,000 --> 03:03:04,900
And they quickly just and she
quickly decided that that's this

2910
03:03:04,900 --> 03:03:09,700
is the guy that she wants. and,
They're engaged.

2911
03:03:11,900 --> 03:03:12,900
Short while later they're
married.

2912
03:03:13,800 --> 03:03:16,900
He was 16 at the time.
My grandpa was 16.

2913
03:03:18,200 --> 03:03:22,900
And he was starting to family.
Well, um, my grandma.

2914
03:03:22,900 --> 03:03:26,900
She had told my grandfather that
she was 15.

2915
03:03:29,000 --> 03:03:33,900
So, they could get married.
And it was after they were

2916
03:03:33,900 --> 03:03:39,100
married that that my grandma.
Comes clean and admitted she was

2917
03:03:39,100 --> 03:03:44,500
13.
When they were married. she lied

2918
03:03:44,500 --> 03:03:47,300
about her age and convinced her
parents to lie about her age

2919
03:03:47,300 --> 03:03:52,300
because she She knew the man
that she wanted and and was

2920
03:03:52,300 --> 03:03:56,500
worried that he might think
she's too young and somebody

2921
03:03:56,500 --> 03:04:01,700
else might get him in the
meantime. so, It was a different

2922
03:04:01,700 --> 03:04:04,200
world.
It was a different world.

2923
03:04:05,100 --> 03:04:08,200
And your grandmother's
grandparents and this is worth

2924
03:04:08,200 --> 03:04:11,300
bearing out.
Did this was a marriage.

2925
03:04:11,300 --> 03:04:14,800
Yeah, yeah, didn't say she
family was involved.

2926
03:04:14,800 --> 03:04:17,900
This wasn't something done in
some secret back room in the

2927
03:04:17,908 --> 03:04:20,800
desert.
This was this was an open

2928
03:04:20,800 --> 03:04:22,800
marriage ceremony, they got
married in the temple.

2929
03:04:23,600 --> 03:04:26,100
They were married in the temple.
Yep.

2930
03:04:26,100 --> 03:04:30,400
Yep.
And my Grandpa and Grandma were

2931
03:04:30,400 --> 03:04:33,000
faithful to each other till the
days, they died.

2932
03:04:34,200 --> 03:04:38,200
Yeah.
And in my grandma's case, that

2933
03:04:38,200 --> 03:04:44,000
was just a year ago.
So, They had a successful

2934
03:04:44,000 --> 03:04:47,400
marriage, they had.
Brought forth children.

2935
03:04:48,700 --> 03:04:52,100
Large family, they had success,
they they had education.

2936
03:04:53,100 --> 03:04:55,800
They had.
A certain amount of wealth, they

2937
03:04:55,800 --> 03:04:58,600
were never really well, but they
were, they were doing pretty

2938
03:04:58,600 --> 03:05:01,900
good by the end, right?
They lived the American dream.

2939
03:05:04,100 --> 03:05:07,400
My grandma's only 13 when she's
married, that's still blows my

2940
03:05:07,400 --> 03:05:09,100
mind.
And I've seen pictures of her.

2941
03:05:09,100 --> 03:05:10,300
She doesn't look for her team to
me.

2942
03:05:12,100 --> 03:05:15,600
Right?
She doesn't look 13 to me but my

2943
03:05:15,600 --> 03:05:20,300
grandma has always had this funk
Personality in that marriage,

2944
03:05:20,300 --> 03:05:22,000
you know.
You know the one I'm talking

2945
03:05:22,000 --> 03:05:23,000
about.
She's a redhead.

2946
03:05:23,000 --> 03:05:26,300
Yeah.
Oh I I know a little something

2947
03:05:26,300 --> 03:05:28,400
about redheads, right?
Yeah.

2948
03:05:29,600 --> 03:05:32,000
Yeah, no, I'll get it.
Like, you've got to be a brave

2949
03:05:32,000 --> 03:05:33,300
man to want to go down that
road.

2950
03:05:33,300 --> 03:05:36,800
Yeah, it's gonna be funny at
times and other times you're

2951
03:05:36,800 --> 03:05:39,000
going to say the wrong thing and
you're gonna know you said the

2952
03:05:39,000 --> 03:05:42,300
wrong thing.
Yeah, there was never anything

2953
03:05:42,300 --> 03:05:44,500
abusive in their marriage.
Right.

2954
03:05:44,500 --> 03:05:46,400
Never once that was a
successful.

2955
03:05:46,400 --> 03:05:48,000
Happy marriage.
They made it work.

2956
03:05:48,000 --> 03:05:51,800
They had some challenges but
there's never any semblance of

2957
03:05:51,800 --> 03:05:53,300
abuse.
Right.

2958
03:05:55,400 --> 03:05:58,000
But that was back then in the
1930s 1940s.

2959
03:05:59,900 --> 03:06:05,300
Right.
We live in 2026. like I said,

2960
03:06:07,200 --> 03:06:10,700
children aren't the same.
No, they're not learning things

2961
03:06:10,700 --> 03:06:13,100
that they used to learn.
They're not having the they're

2962
03:06:13,100 --> 03:06:16,300
not having worse adult
responsibilities on them for

2963
03:06:16,300 --> 03:06:18,900
survival necessity at a younger
age.

2964
03:06:19,800 --> 03:06:21,900
Right?
So you've got that going One

2965
03:06:21,900 --> 03:06:25,000
Direction but then you got on
the other direction, you got

2966
03:06:25,000 --> 03:06:26,900
when I was telling you about
this tiktok stuff.

2967
03:06:27,800 --> 03:06:36,300
You have a epidemic. and actual
epidemic of people who are of

2968
03:06:36,300 --> 03:06:41,700
men, Who are so messed up in
their heads.

2969
03:06:43,900 --> 03:06:52,000
That.
They have. a sexual desire to

2970
03:06:53,300 --> 03:06:55,700
corrupt innocence.
Yeah.

2971
03:06:56,800 --> 03:07:01,800
Yep, they want.
A lack of agency and lack of

2972
03:07:01,808 --> 03:07:06,800
maturity, a lack of consent.
In their sexual relationships.

2973
03:07:08,100 --> 03:07:10,300
Right?
And they're being exposed to

2974
03:07:10,300 --> 03:07:14,100
this online, they're seeing
videos of this stuff, Sharon

2975
03:07:14,100 --> 03:07:19,200
pictures of this stuff.
They're depraved.

2976
03:07:20,600 --> 03:07:22,800
These are these are, these are
monsters.

2977
03:07:25,000 --> 03:07:28,000
And there's an epidemic of them
more than any time before.

2978
03:07:29,200 --> 03:07:32,800
In right, there's always been
men with bad intentions and with

2979
03:07:32,800 --> 03:07:36,900
bad who would act on baser
desires and to a certain degree,

2980
03:07:36,900 --> 03:07:39,800
we got it.
We got to understand and admit

2981
03:07:39,800 --> 03:07:42,100
that we are following human
beings.

2982
03:07:42,100 --> 03:07:46,400
We are all Fallen.
We all have baser desires that

2983
03:07:47,300 --> 03:07:50,900
we were that came with came with
mortality.

2984
03:07:50,900 --> 03:07:54,700
Hopefully, hopefully we are
doing everything within our

2985
03:07:54,708 --> 03:08:00,900
power to fight and subdue.
Those things to to surrender,

2986
03:08:00,900 --> 03:08:02,900
those desires and receive new
ones from God.

2987
03:08:02,900 --> 03:08:05,900
That's what it means to be.
That's really what it means to

2988
03:08:05,900 --> 03:08:09,400
be a Christian.
As we put our hearts on the

2989
03:08:09,400 --> 03:08:11,300
Altar and God gives us a new
one.

2990
03:08:12,700 --> 03:08:18,500
Right, a Christianity is on the
decline. and, With at the

2991
03:08:18,500 --> 03:08:23,700
demonics. at the Dynamics of
this, most abusive, horrible

2992
03:08:23,700 --> 03:08:28,200
things you can imagine being
thrust upon Voice girls.

2993
03:08:29,000 --> 03:08:31,200
Teenagers.
And adults.

2994
03:08:32,600 --> 03:08:36,900
We don't live in the same world.
So when we first started talking

2995
03:08:36,900 --> 03:08:40,300
about views, I asked you what
happens if I punch you, Dave, is

2996
03:08:40,300 --> 03:08:43,900
that abuse?
Well, we've just we've decided

2997
03:08:43,900 --> 03:08:46,900
that doing harm.
It might be doing harm right but

2998
03:08:46,900 --> 03:08:53,800
that's not abuse.
Right. but if I do that to, My

2999
03:08:53,800 --> 03:08:56,700
my infant because she's crying
too much.

3000
03:08:57,900 --> 03:09:00,300
Then, you know, I should be
taking away.

3001
03:09:01,200 --> 03:09:03,500
If you lock me up, right?
Yep.

3002
03:09:04,800 --> 03:09:06,500
Because there's a difference in
agency.

3003
03:09:07,600 --> 03:09:09,600
Yes.
There's a difference in the

3004
03:09:09,600 --> 03:09:13,100
agency and there's a difference
in the agency that the youth

3005
03:09:13,100 --> 03:09:15,400
have now.
And there's a difference in a

3006
03:09:15,400 --> 03:09:19,000
desire to cropped that there's a
increase in wickedness of

3007
03:09:19,000 --> 03:09:25,600
hearts. and then today,
therefore, therefore, I am not

3008
03:09:25,600 --> 03:09:27,700
saying that what Joseph Smith
did was wrong.

3009
03:09:27,700 --> 03:09:30,500
I am not saying what my own
family did was wrong.

3010
03:09:31,800 --> 03:09:34,200
But if I were to do that, I
should be in prison.

3011
03:09:35,800 --> 03:09:40,100
Is the times have changed times
and the power dynamics are

3012
03:09:40,100 --> 03:09:42,000
different.
The maturity level is different,

3013
03:09:42,000 --> 03:09:48,100
we know longer live in those
times. and, you know, I I want

3014
03:09:48,100 --> 03:09:52,700
to say something else here
because I have read stories,

3015
03:09:52,700 --> 03:09:55,600
where people say, well, she was
old enough to know what what was

3016
03:09:55,600 --> 03:09:58,800
right and what was wrong.
Maybe.

3017
03:09:59,700 --> 03:10:04,900
But again, you're dealing with a
far less mature young woman now,

3018
03:10:04,900 --> 03:10:10,800
right, right?
And you can't really consent

3019
03:10:10,800 --> 03:10:14,500
unless you're cognitively.
And adult.

3020
03:10:16,000 --> 03:10:19,000
At some level, right?
Maybe not understand what you're

3021
03:10:19,000 --> 03:10:21,300
getting yourself into,
especially right, you marriage,

3022
03:10:21,300 --> 03:10:24,100
right?
And and my contention today is

3023
03:10:25,100 --> 03:10:29,000
Most girls at the age of 15 or
16 do not understand what that

3024
03:10:29,000 --> 03:10:30,400
is.
Right.

3025
03:10:30,400 --> 03:10:35,000
And because of that, You've got
to leave them the hell alone.

3026
03:10:35,900 --> 03:10:39,200
Yeah, and I don't want to hear
about what Joseph did.

3027
03:10:39,200 --> 03:10:41,600
I don't want to hear about what
was practicing in the Old and

3028
03:10:41,600 --> 03:10:45,000
New Testaments.
It does not matter.

3029
03:10:45,900 --> 03:10:50,300
Because we are dealing with a
different time and using good

3030
03:10:50,300 --> 03:10:52,800
men as an excuse for your
depravity.

3031
03:10:54,900 --> 03:10:58,300
Is.
Is horrific to start with in

3032
03:10:58,300 --> 03:11:04,300
this life, but I promise you.
I promise you, you use as an

3033
03:11:04,300 --> 03:11:08,000
excuse, you're going to answer
to God and some very

3034
03:11:08,000 --> 03:11:11,808
uncomfortable ways because he
does know the end from the

3035
03:11:11,816 --> 03:11:15,600
beginning and not only that you
are, you twisting something,

3036
03:11:15,600 --> 03:11:18,700
that is divine, that is
beautiful for your own

3037
03:11:18,700 --> 03:11:24,300
gratification, and that's a
problem. and if you're convinced

3038
03:11:24,300 --> 03:11:30,200
that she's the one and she's 16
week, two years Wait, you wait

3039
03:11:30,200 --> 03:11:32,100
two years?
Right.

3040
03:11:32,100 --> 03:11:36,500
Oh, if so, if you're that sure
of your quote revelation.

3041
03:11:38,600 --> 03:11:42,700
Let's let's, you know, then I'm
sure that that will hold for two

3042
03:11:42,700 --> 03:11:44,700
years.
Yeah, the time to play out there

3043
03:11:45,800 --> 03:11:47,500
Yeah.
Okay.

3044
03:11:47,500 --> 03:11:49,300
Okay.
So here's the problem.

3045
03:11:49,300 --> 03:11:55,200
Here's the issue, right?
Back in the 1930s and 40s were

3046
03:11:55,200 --> 03:11:57,900
there girls that were 13 that
were not ready to be married.

3047
03:11:58,900 --> 03:12:01,900
I'm sure there were I'm sure
there were Sure.

3048
03:12:01,900 --> 03:12:04,000
There were I think my grandma
was probably more on the

3049
03:12:04,008 --> 03:12:06,600
exception side and that's why
she was lying about being 15.

3050
03:12:07,500 --> 03:12:08,700
Right.
How about 15?

3051
03:12:08,700 --> 03:12:11,200
We're, we're 15 year.
Old girls.

3052
03:12:11,200 --> 03:12:14,200
Ready to be married as in
general in that age.

3053
03:12:15,500 --> 03:12:18,900
I'm sure there were some I think
there were probably a lot, I

3054
03:12:18,900 --> 03:12:22,700
think there are probably a lot
that were because you'll notice

3055
03:12:22,700 --> 03:12:25,400
statutory rape laws and a
minimum age laws.

3056
03:12:25,400 --> 03:12:28,300
This is this is a newer thing at
some point.

3057
03:12:29,300 --> 03:12:33,100
Between World War Two, and now
various states start dropping in

3058
03:12:33,100 --> 03:12:37,700
rules about this, because they
start identifying a shift in the

3059
03:12:37,708 --> 03:12:40,100
demographics.
And that's what this is.

3060
03:12:40,100 --> 03:12:44,600
This is a ship.
Is it possible that there is a

3061
03:12:44,600 --> 03:12:48,000
15 year old out there today
right now, ready to be married.

3062
03:12:49,200 --> 03:12:51,300
Yes, it's possible.
It's lightly.

3063
03:12:51,300 --> 03:12:56,900
I'm sure it's even likely. but,
but yes, that's the butt.

3064
03:12:56,900 --> 03:12:59,000
So let's let's do a
hypothetical.

3065
03:12:59,000 --> 03:13:05,100
It's 1940, she's 15 years old.
80% of girls, 15 year old are

3066
03:13:05,100 --> 03:13:09,800
ready to be married.
And so this is not, this is not

3067
03:13:09,800 --> 03:13:13,500
abuse.
Right fast forward to 2026.

3068
03:13:13,500 --> 03:13:18,400
There is 0.001% of 15 year, old
girl's ready to be married.

3069
03:13:19,600 --> 03:13:22,800
Right.
That's why they had to draw a

3070
03:13:22,800 --> 03:13:25,300
line in the sand on this.
This is why these laws came into

3071
03:13:25,300 --> 03:13:29,808
existence. because it went from,
we don't want infringe on the

3072
03:13:29,816 --> 03:13:35,100
people's right to make their own
decisions and judgments to this

3073
03:13:35,100 --> 03:13:37,800
is irrational.
Now this is there's no case

3074
03:13:37,800 --> 03:13:42,900
where this is really lining up
and we have to sacrifice the two

3075
03:13:42,900 --> 03:13:48,600
years of the 15 year old.
The 16 year old, you know who

3076
03:13:48,600 --> 03:13:52,000
actually is ready that 0.001?
We're gonna have to make them

3077
03:13:52,000 --> 03:13:56,400
wait just a little bit longer so
we can protect the other 99.

3078
03:13:57,600 --> 03:14:01,700
Right.
Because if you allow exceptions,

3079
03:14:03,000 --> 03:14:07,600
On this.
And you're the exception.

3080
03:14:09,600 --> 03:14:11,200
Well, then everybody gets to be
dick.

3081
03:14:11,200 --> 03:14:13,000
Exception and there is no
protection.

3082
03:14:14,200 --> 03:14:15,400
Right.
Right?

3083
03:14:15,400 --> 03:14:18,700
There was a recognition
somewhere, like you said between

3084
03:14:18,700 --> 03:14:22,900
World War Two And whatever the
date was, when these lost start

3085
03:14:22,900 --> 03:14:25,000
getting dropped that, you know
what?

3086
03:14:26,200 --> 03:14:29,900
Are youth aren't quite as mature
as they used to be.

3087
03:14:29,900 --> 03:14:36,800
And so per your point there has
to be a line drawn and It is

3088
03:14:36,808 --> 03:14:42,700
where it is.
But if you Do not.

3089
03:14:45,100 --> 03:14:47,400
There's no reason to cross.
That line is what I'm saying?

3090
03:14:47,400 --> 03:14:49,900
Yeah.
There's no there's no need to

3091
03:14:49,900 --> 03:14:51,700
cross that line.
There is no excuse.

3092
03:14:51,700 --> 03:14:57,600
There's no justification.
As you even if you are the

3093
03:14:57,600 --> 03:15:02,200
exception, there is no excuse
because by doing that, you

3094
03:15:02,200 --> 03:15:06,000
normalize and open the door for
the non exceptions to be abused.

3095
03:15:07,100 --> 03:15:08,500
Well, and here's the other
thing.

3096
03:15:10,100 --> 03:15:13,100
You're going to do damage to the
rest of the community of

3097
03:15:13,100 --> 03:15:16,700
fundamentalists.
Right, we're like I talked about

3098
03:15:16,700 --> 03:15:19,600
earlier, we're still trying to
shake off the ghost of what

3099
03:15:19,600 --> 03:15:24,700
happened in Colorado City.
Yeah, let's not give them any

3100
03:15:24,700 --> 03:15:27,300
more fodder than what they
already have.

3101
03:15:28,100 --> 03:15:30,400
On top of it being more really
wrong, right?

3102
03:15:30,400 --> 03:15:33,800
Like there's there's there's
several places here where this

3103
03:15:33,800 --> 03:15:36,600
is a bad thing.
Yeah.

3104
03:15:36,600 --> 03:15:39,800
Yeah.
And so even if even if it's your

3105
03:15:39,808 --> 03:15:42,800
parents you grandparents and it
was okay and it worked out it,

3106
03:15:42,800 --> 03:15:45,700
had a happy ending.
That's okay.

3107
03:15:45,700 --> 03:15:48,900
But you don't have to hold to
that standard and you need to

3108
03:15:48,900 --> 03:15:52,500
come and realize that there are,
there is abuse happening.

3109
03:15:52,500 --> 03:15:55,400
There has been abused.
There is abuse happening now.

3110
03:15:55,400 --> 03:15:59,700
And the way we protect that is
we say that enough is enough.

3111
03:16:00,700 --> 03:16:02,300
Right.
You wait till you're 18.

3112
03:16:04,900 --> 03:16:06,600
Yep.
Nobody's nobody's gonna get

3113
03:16:06,600 --> 03:16:11,400
condemned to hell because they
waited till they were 18. but,

3114
03:16:12,500 --> 03:16:16,300
You might save the life of and
and some horrific things from

3115
03:16:16,300 --> 03:16:17,900
happening to somebody like
Allison here.

3116
03:16:18,900 --> 03:16:21,400
Right.
Is that not worth it?

3117
03:16:22,300 --> 03:16:27,200
I would think it is. 100%.
So that was a tough one.

3118
03:16:27,200 --> 03:16:30,100
That was a tough one.
Um, the age thing, right?

3119
03:16:30,100 --> 03:16:32,700
But let's let's finish through
this.

3120
03:16:32,700 --> 03:16:35,900
There's not a whole lot more.
That we need to really address

3121
03:16:35,900 --> 03:16:38,900
here on this.
So one evening green asked

3122
03:16:38,900 --> 03:16:41,900
Allison on a date.
He took me to Park City and we

3123
03:16:41,908 --> 03:16:43,800
talked about sex while running
my leg.

3124
03:16:43,800 --> 03:16:46,000
He told me he wanted me as a
wife.

3125
03:16:46,000 --> 03:16:49,600
She said, I had such low
self-esteem, I thought this was

3126
03:16:49,600 --> 03:16:52,600
probably the best I could get
and told myself, I would

3127
03:16:52,600 --> 03:16:55,000
probably be good for it would
probably be good for me.

3128
03:16:56,200 --> 03:16:58,400
After their date.
The greens had Allison moving

3129
03:16:58,400 --> 03:17:00,800
with them.
And Arrangement that her parents

3130
03:17:00,800 --> 03:17:03,600
agreed to since Alice was not
getting along with her mother at

3131
03:17:03,600 --> 03:17:05,800
the time.
Oh, we found some more.

3132
03:17:05,800 --> 03:17:11,000
Oh yep.
There's nobody yeah, this isn't

3133
03:17:11,000 --> 03:17:14,000
even coming from.
From the the evil

3134
03:17:14,000 --> 03:17:17,500
fundamentalists.
This time but you know, her own

3135
03:17:17,500 --> 03:17:21,000
mom.
That's not an appropriate thing

3136
03:17:21,000 --> 03:17:23,300
to let happen.
If you have 16 year old

3137
03:17:23,308 --> 03:17:27,200
daughter, you do not let your 16
year old daughter move in with

3138
03:17:27,200 --> 03:17:29,900
another man and his family who
is dating her.

3139
03:17:30,700 --> 03:17:34,300
Also, don't let don't let men
date your 16 year old daughters,

3140
03:17:34,300 --> 03:17:37,500
right?
I mean.

3141
03:17:38,700 --> 03:17:42,600
Yeah.
Tom was controlling and

3142
03:17:42,600 --> 03:17:44,600
intimidating.
He treated me like one of these

3143
03:17:44,600 --> 03:17:46,900
kids but he was mean to a step
kids.

3144
03:17:47,800 --> 03:17:51,100
She says Leanne his
stepdaughter, would go cry out

3145
03:17:51,100 --> 03:17:53,700
back.
And tell me Tom was molesting

3146
03:17:53,700 --> 03:17:57,800
her.
Without Allison in their trailer

3147
03:17:57,800 --> 03:17:59,700
greens for wives began
persuading.

3148
03:17:59,700 --> 03:18:02,600
Her telling her, they wanted her
to marry Tom and be a part of

3149
03:18:02,600 --> 03:18:05,800
their family.
Allison's mother new green.

3150
03:18:05,800 --> 03:18:08,600
Wanted to marry her daughter.
And according to Alison, she

3151
03:18:08,600 --> 03:18:10,600
went to the Mormon.
Bishop and asked his advice.

3152
03:18:11,700 --> 03:18:15,100
She said, he told her to support
the decision or it might end up

3153
03:18:15,100 --> 03:18:19,100
a runaway.
What what?

3154
03:18:19,100 --> 03:18:21,800
Yeah, so I thought what I don't
know.

3155
03:18:24,400 --> 03:18:26,500
Regardless, just taking it a
face value, right?

3156
03:18:26,500 --> 03:18:29,400
We're not we're not necessarily
judging here, right?

3157
03:18:30,200 --> 03:18:33,400
But that is not okay, either.
That's not okay.

3158
03:18:33,400 --> 03:18:36,100
Either bad.
Bishop bad, Bishop, hypothetical

3159
03:18:36,100 --> 03:18:38,100
Bishop that.
Hypothetical Bishop.

3160
03:18:38,100 --> 03:18:43,400
If you are a bishop and in You
do not, you do not say that you,

3161
03:18:43,400 --> 03:18:48,000
you call the police.
Yeah, you call child this, you

3162
03:18:48,000 --> 03:18:51,400
know, maybe even back then.
No there was there was I know we

3163
03:18:51,400 --> 03:18:53,800
had to go on the run from CPS
once.

3164
03:18:55,500 --> 03:18:59,400
Neighbor's didn't like our dog.
And no and we were all.

3165
03:18:59,400 --> 03:19:04,500
So the only non-active members
on the Block, And so we couldn't

3166
03:19:04,500 --> 03:19:08,300
play with the neighbor kids.
Got and then something happened

3167
03:19:08,300 --> 03:19:09,900
with the dog.
And there's got said because our

3168
03:19:09,900 --> 03:19:11,100
dog and they wanted us out of
there.

3169
03:19:11,100 --> 03:19:14,400
And then and so they called CPS
and it was stupid, it was

3170
03:19:14,400 --> 03:19:16,200
stupid.
There was no music that anyways,

3171
03:19:16,200 --> 03:19:20,100
but that existed back then, it
did exist back then I know what

3172
03:19:20,100 --> 03:19:20,600
did?
Yeah.

3173
03:19:21,500 --> 03:19:24,000
You know, you know.
You do not.

3174
03:19:24,700 --> 03:19:27,200
Yeah, better letter.
Otherwise she might run away.

3175
03:19:28,100 --> 03:19:31,300
Oh my gosh.
Okay, so after living in the

3176
03:19:31,300 --> 03:19:34,000
green trailer for two months is
one of the kids Allison was on

3177
03:19:34,000 --> 03:19:36,900
her way to becoming one of the
wives to understand how it

3178
03:19:36,900 --> 03:19:38,800
happened to me.
You would have to know about my

3179
03:19:38,800 --> 03:19:41,300
mother.
She says, Was married to my

3180
03:19:41,308 --> 03:19:44,000
father at age 16.
He went along with everything

3181
03:19:44,000 --> 03:19:47,600
she wanted and she wanted to get
us girls out as soon as possible

3182
03:19:47,600 --> 03:19:49,600
to be free of child-rearing
duties.

3183
03:19:52,900 --> 03:19:56,300
Which again shows that there
might be a misunderstanding

3184
03:19:56,300 --> 03:19:58,400
here, right?
I'm gonna I'm gonna give the

3185
03:19:58,400 --> 03:20:01,400
mother here, maybe a certain
amount of Grace because maybe

3186
03:20:01,400 --> 03:20:04,300
her being married at 16 was kind
of okay.

3187
03:20:04,300 --> 03:20:06,800
Although she does seem to have
some issues, doesn't seem to be

3188
03:20:06,808 --> 03:20:10,600
very good mom, but maybe she
could be an okay wife at 16.

3189
03:20:11,700 --> 03:20:13,600
And she's projecting that on to
her children.

3190
03:20:14,500 --> 03:20:17,300
Yep.
I was okay at 16, they'll be

3191
03:20:17,300 --> 03:20:18,700
fine.
Yep.

3192
03:20:22,400 --> 03:20:25,000
It also sounds like she was
wearing the pants in the home

3193
03:20:25,000 --> 03:20:27,300
too, which again would indicate
that her marriage probably

3194
03:20:27,300 --> 03:20:30,300
wasn't abusive.
And that she could get her

3195
03:20:30,300 --> 03:20:33,500
husband to support her.
He listened to her, he did.

3196
03:20:34,800 --> 03:20:37,500
And this case, it's a bad
situation though that she has

3197
03:20:37,500 --> 03:20:38,700
that influence on her husband,
right?

3198
03:20:39,700 --> 03:20:44,200
So indeed.
Green 16 year old stepson.

3199
03:20:44,200 --> 03:20:47,500
Jim was dating Allison's. 12
year old sister Andrea.

3200
03:20:48,400 --> 03:20:52,500
Holy cow.
With one wedding on the burner,

3201
03:20:52,500 --> 03:20:55,200
their mother then granted
permission for Andrea to marry

3202
03:20:55,200 --> 03:20:58,000
Jim at the same time that
Allison married green.

3203
03:20:59,700 --> 03:21:03,500
Unbelievable.
Andrea was crying that day.

3204
03:21:04,200 --> 03:21:08,500
We both changed our minds. but
Mom didn't stop it or announced

3205
03:21:08,500 --> 03:21:10,800
that we didn't want to go
through with it because Tom

3206
03:21:10,800 --> 03:21:16,300
intimidated, her Allison says.
I remember that day in the

3207
03:21:16,308 --> 03:21:17,800
trailer park Clubhouse, getting
married.

3208
03:21:17,800 --> 03:21:20,600
Just two minutes before he
married his own stepdaughter,

3209
03:21:20,600 --> 03:21:27,600
Leanne.
Kids were looking through the

3210
03:21:27,600 --> 03:21:30,900
windows and I wore a plague
dress that Leanne's mother made

3211
03:21:30,900 --> 03:21:39,000
Allison became Green's sixth
wife. 12 year old Andres

3212
03:21:39,000 --> 03:21:42,500
marriage.
Ended within two weeks.

3213
03:21:42,500 --> 03:21:46,100
The couple had moved in with
Andrea and Allison's parents.

3214
03:21:46,900 --> 03:21:49,700
Who.
Kicked Jim out for being lazy.

3215
03:21:52,600 --> 03:21:56,300
Go figure 16 year olds.
Not ready to hold down a job or

3216
03:21:57,800 --> 03:22:01,800
right times have changed.
Times have changed times.

3217
03:22:01,800 --> 03:22:05,100
Have changed.
Six 16 year old boy isn't

3218
03:22:05,100 --> 03:22:12,600
prepared to take care of a 12
year old wife. oh, Gosh.

3219
03:22:12,600 --> 03:22:14,500
It sounds bad now, but it was
just as bad.

3220
03:22:14,500 --> 03:22:16,300
Then I want to point that out
again.

3221
03:22:16,300 --> 03:22:19,400
This wasn't that long ago, and
as bad as that sounds right now,

3222
03:22:19,400 --> 03:22:23,700
imagine that today it was it was
not different back then.

3223
03:22:28,500 --> 03:22:30,900
Justin can I can I just say
something right here right now?

3224
03:22:30,900 --> 03:22:35,100
Oh, yeah.
I have had more than one person.

3225
03:22:36,500 --> 03:22:39,700
Come to me at times and defend.
Tom Green.

3226
03:22:41,800 --> 03:22:43,800
Tell me that, you know, he got a
bad rap.

3227
03:22:44,500 --> 03:22:48,400
Because one of his wives, the
one that was 13 and ended up

3228
03:22:48,400 --> 03:22:52,500
living with him, his whole life.
Well, you know what Stockholm

3229
03:22:52,500 --> 03:22:54,500
syndrome is a thing?
Hey.

3230
03:22:55,900 --> 03:23:00,400
Right.
Um, and I don't want to hear it

3231
03:23:00,400 --> 03:23:03,600
because there is no intellectual
or spiritual quarter.

3232
03:23:03,600 --> 03:23:08,400
I will give not one damn bit.
That's abusive.

3233
03:23:08,400 --> 03:23:10,200
That is wrong.
That is sick.

3234
03:23:10,200 --> 03:23:14,100
And it is disgusting and Tom
Green is not a full hero.

3235
03:23:14,100 --> 03:23:21,300
He's a He he's a pedophile
that's what he is, just call it

3236
03:23:21,300 --> 03:23:23,500
what it is.
And you can say things like,

3237
03:23:23,500 --> 03:23:25,100
well gosh she did some good
things.

3238
03:23:25,100 --> 03:23:28,400
Well you know what that's a lot
like saying no one ever talks

3239
03:23:28,400 --> 03:23:30,700
to, you know, except for the the
you know.

3240
03:23:31,500 --> 03:23:34,400
All the millions of people that
Mao killed, he did some really

3241
03:23:34,400 --> 03:23:38,300
great things at some point.
Certain actions outweigh

3242
03:23:38,300 --> 03:23:41,400
anything else you're going to do
that's good and this is one of

3243
03:23:41,400 --> 03:23:42,900
them.
All right.

3244
03:23:42,908 --> 03:23:44,400
Well, I got a question for you,
Dave.

3245
03:23:44,400 --> 03:23:46,100
This is a hard.
It's gonna be hard question,

3246
03:23:46,100 --> 03:23:49,900
too.
Why are people why are people in

3247
03:23:49,900 --> 03:23:51,500
front of fundamentals and
defending him then?

3248
03:23:53,200 --> 03:23:57,100
You know, I thought about this
at length. and I want to say

3249
03:23:57,100 --> 03:24:01,100
this, And again this is gonna
get oddly specific.

3250
03:24:01,100 --> 03:24:05,800
So if you're on the side of the
fence, sorry you're gonna hate

3251
03:24:05,800 --> 03:24:10,800
the hell out of this. but for
whatever reason, there seems to

3252
03:24:10,800 --> 03:24:12,800
be a strong propensity of this
in Lebanon.

3253
03:24:14,500 --> 03:24:18,600
And I think that you have to ask
the question, right?

3254
03:24:18,600 --> 03:24:24,100
And look, I'll say this.
There are certain doctrines that

3255
03:24:24,100 --> 03:24:28,700
you can find that were drugged
Straight From Hell into that

3256
03:24:28,700 --> 03:24:31,500
movement.
That.

3257
03:24:33,100 --> 03:24:39,800
Would attract that kind of
person. and, You need to be

3258
03:24:39,800 --> 03:24:45,500
cognizant of that. and, That
needs to be exposed for what it

3259
03:24:45,508 --> 03:24:48,600
is.
Gross abuse.

3260
03:24:49,900 --> 03:24:54,200
And pedophilia.
With a religious bent.

3261
03:24:57,200 --> 03:25:00,500
Yeah, and most of the people
I've heard defend, Tom Green

3262
03:25:00,500 --> 03:25:03,900
have been some who have come
from that priesthood line.

3263
03:25:03,900 --> 03:25:07,400
Now, I want to be careful.
Not every LeBaron engages in

3264
03:25:07,400 --> 03:25:10,600
that or I shouldn't say Lebanon,
anybody, who follows, there's

3265
03:25:10,600 --> 03:25:13,400
many people who follow the baron
ISM, right?

3266
03:25:13,400 --> 03:25:16,400
That priesthood, line, that
haven't done those things.

3267
03:25:16,400 --> 03:25:20,300
And I'm not calling out every
one, but I will say, there is

3268
03:25:20,300 --> 03:25:24,400
something inherent when you
start reading certain things

3269
03:25:24,400 --> 03:25:26,700
where that is drugged out into
the light.

3270
03:25:28,700 --> 03:25:32,000
Yeah.
And you know what, you know,

3271
03:25:32,000 --> 03:25:34,400
maybe some people didn't know
Tom Green did this.

3272
03:25:34,400 --> 03:25:40,700
I didn't tell I read it.
I still ashamed though, because

3273
03:25:40,700 --> 03:25:43,700
I have heard rumors.
There were some weird stuff

3274
03:25:43,700 --> 03:25:46,500
there.
I didn't take the time to look

3275
03:25:46,500 --> 03:25:49,500
into it.
Just to see for myself what's

3276
03:25:49,500 --> 03:25:55,500
really going on here.
Now that I have like I said at

3277
03:25:55,500 --> 03:25:58,700
the beginning, if I feel a
little bit betrayed, I feel a

3278
03:25:58,700 --> 03:26:03,000
little bit, the trade, my Mormon
fundamentalism, as a whole, That

3279
03:26:03,000 --> 03:26:08,300
this has not already that the
Tom Green wasn't strung up.

3280
03:26:10,200 --> 03:26:13,600
there was that he wasn't hogtied
strung up and and and and

3281
03:26:15,200 --> 03:26:19,400
Everybody knew, but nobody knew.
Well, maybe people know, but

3282
03:26:19,400 --> 03:26:21,000
they don't want to offend
so-and-so.

3283
03:26:21,000 --> 03:26:24,100
Well, maybe they'll do.
But, you know, yeah, those girls

3284
03:26:24,100 --> 03:26:26,000
were young, but my grandpa
married, a young.

3285
03:26:26,008 --> 03:26:30,700
I had a young I don't know what
the excuses are, but there were.

3286
03:26:30,700 --> 03:26:33,200
There had been excuses made at
some point.

3287
03:26:35,000 --> 03:26:38,000
And at some point we have to
recognize that we have a

3288
03:26:38,000 --> 03:26:41,300
responsibility.
We have a responsibility.

3289
03:26:43,000 --> 03:26:49,100
To Define to gatekeep.
As you could say, what Mormon

3290
03:26:49,100 --> 03:26:54,200
fundamentalism is.
And this story I am reading

3291
03:26:54,200 --> 03:26:56,300
here.
This is not the Mormon

3292
03:26:56,300 --> 03:27:01,500
fundamentalism that I've seen.
No, but I do think that this is

3293
03:27:01,500 --> 03:27:05,100
the Mormon fundamentalism that
some people have seen and that

3294
03:27:05,100 --> 03:27:07,300
should not be okay with the
Mormon fundamentalists.

3295
03:27:08,600 --> 03:27:13,800
Right.
We don't like it when other

3296
03:27:13,800 --> 03:27:16,100
people come into police our
communities.

3297
03:27:16,100 --> 03:27:19,500
So to speak, right?
The folks that come in to

3298
03:27:19,500 --> 03:27:23,300
critique Well, if we don't want
others to do it, we better get

3299
03:27:23,300 --> 03:27:26,800
damn used to doing it ourselves.
Or.

3300
03:27:28,300 --> 03:27:31,400
Someone else will do it for us,
but they won't understand our

3301
03:27:31,400 --> 03:27:33,100
culture.
They won't understand who we

3302
03:27:33,100 --> 03:27:35,400
are.
So when we see this sort of

3303
03:27:35,400 --> 03:27:39,500
stuff, Giving it a pass with
Lincoln and not is not the way

3304
03:27:39,500 --> 03:27:41,600
to go.
Yeah.

3305
03:27:44,200 --> 03:27:46,000
So let's finish this.
I know it's rough.

3306
03:27:47,600 --> 03:27:49,100
But I think we need to see it
through.

3307
03:27:50,000 --> 03:27:52,300
We have.
Let's see it to the end.

3308
03:27:54,800 --> 03:27:57,600
So 12 year old Andrews marriage
had ended within two weeks.

3309
03:27:57,600 --> 03:28:00,200
The couple had moved in with
Andrea Nelson's parents.

3310
03:28:00,200 --> 03:28:02,000
Who soon kicked Jim out for
being lazy.

3311
03:28:02,900 --> 03:28:06,400
Allison mother maintains the
Andreas marriage was in a

3312
03:28:06,400 --> 03:28:12,800
serious marriage. um, Said it
was just something polygamous

3313
03:28:12,800 --> 03:28:15,000
Duong themselves and we all
played along with it.

3314
03:28:17,000 --> 03:28:19,800
That's just, you know, just kids
being kids.

3315
03:28:19,800 --> 03:28:23,300
That's is that.
Is that okay?

3316
03:28:24,200 --> 03:28:26,600
No.
Listeners is this okay?

3317
03:28:28,900 --> 03:28:30,100
Correct.
Yeah, it's not.

3318
03:28:30,100 --> 03:28:33,100
Okay this is not this is not
something that we do among

3319
03:28:33,100 --> 03:28:36,100
ourselves and fundamentalism.
This isn't what polygamous do.

3320
03:28:36,900 --> 03:28:39,200
This is not acceptable.
This is not okay.

3321
03:28:40,000 --> 03:28:43,900
That was that was gross.
Yeah, that was absolutely gross.

3322
03:28:45,300 --> 03:28:49,000
and I guarantee you that, yes,
screw it.

3323
03:28:49,000 --> 03:28:53,000
I guarantee you Tom was getting
off on the idea of his steps on

3324
03:28:53,000 --> 03:28:54,800
what the 12 year old.
Absolutely.

3325
03:28:56,000 --> 03:28:58,600
He's pushing no other reason to
16 year olds more.

3326
03:28:58,600 --> 03:29:00,400
The 16 year old is a victim
himself.

3327
03:29:00,400 --> 03:29:03,300
Yep.
Yep.

3328
03:29:03,300 --> 03:29:06,000
Absolutely.
That is just looks interesting.

3329
03:29:06,000 --> 03:29:08,700
I, I just want to say this,
right?

3330
03:29:10,100 --> 03:29:13,400
Once she's of legal age.
Look, there's 10 years

3331
03:29:13,400 --> 03:29:17,600
difference between Tanya and I
write once, or if legal age, I'm

3332
03:29:17,600 --> 03:29:20,000
hands off.
I don't care at that point right

3333
03:29:20,000 --> 03:29:21,700
there.
There are adults and if they

3334
03:29:21,700 --> 03:29:24,300
consent that way, that's fine.
Whatever.

3335
03:29:25,300 --> 03:29:27,500
But I don't care if you're
fifth, I don't care.

3336
03:29:27,500 --> 03:29:31,200
If its 20 year old man who was
courting a 15 year old girl.

3337
03:29:32,300 --> 03:29:36,100
that is wrong and I think we can
all establish it as being wrong

3338
03:29:36,100 --> 03:29:41,600
at this point again, because the
times have changed and if 15

3339
03:29:41,600 --> 03:29:47,600
year old is not mature enough to
make those decisions, Yeah, so

3340
03:29:47,600 --> 03:29:51,400
again Allison's mother maintains
that Andreas marriage wasn't a

3341
03:29:51,400 --> 03:29:53,800
serious marriage.
Tom said it was just something

3342
03:29:53,800 --> 03:29:56,000
Pokemon is doing among
themselves and we played along

3343
03:29:56,000 --> 03:29:57,500
with it.
She says this is Allison's

3344
03:29:57,500 --> 03:30:00,000
mother.
This is her mother's testimony

3345
03:30:00,000 --> 03:30:03,700
too by the way.
So again, I don't know if all

3346
03:30:03,700 --> 03:30:06,600
the stories in here are true.
But this one's highly

3347
03:30:06,600 --> 03:30:09,500
corroborated.
Highly corroborated.

3348
03:30:11,000 --> 03:30:13,300
So, and then the mother
continues.

3349
03:30:14,300 --> 03:30:16,300
I admit I was intimidated by
him.

3350
03:30:16,300 --> 03:30:18,500
It was a sickening Time Of Our
Lives.

3351
03:30:18,500 --> 03:30:21,500
That I wish had never happened,
and I'll always feel a lot of

3352
03:30:21,500 --> 03:30:24,300
guilt.
As you should.

3353
03:30:25,200 --> 03:30:28,800
Yeah.
After the wedding.

3354
03:30:29,800 --> 03:30:31,900
Green drove Allison to Las Vegas
for their honeymoon.

3355
03:30:33,100 --> 03:30:35,200
Quote, he got a hotel room where
he got me drunk.

3356
03:30:36,100 --> 03:30:39,500
And had sex.
She says, quote, it was

3357
03:30:39,500 --> 03:30:45,800
humiliating, I felt dirty.
Because she was abused.

3358
03:30:45,800 --> 03:30:47,500
Yes, she knows.
This is wrong.

3359
03:30:47,500 --> 03:30:49,300
This is abuse.
She knows exactly what's going

3360
03:30:49,300 --> 03:30:50,900
on here.
And so does everybody listening?

3361
03:30:50,900 --> 03:30:54,000
So all the fundamentals
listening, we know that this is

3362
03:30:54,000 --> 03:30:55,400
wrong.
Yep.

3363
03:30:57,200 --> 03:30:59,600
Back in Utah.
Green began the business of his

3364
03:30:59,600 --> 03:31:02,700
wife began the business that his
wife's continued to operate

3365
03:31:02,700 --> 03:31:04,400
today.
He started his magazine sales

3366
03:31:04,400 --> 03:31:06,800
and made all the school door to
door and do telemarketing.

3367
03:31:06,800 --> 03:31:11,100
She says he thought heard
laundered money through a friend

3368
03:31:11,100 --> 03:31:14,900
of his under an assumed name.
This enabled the family to

3369
03:31:14,900 --> 03:31:18,300
continue receiving Public
Assistance part of greens

3370
03:31:18,300 --> 03:31:21,100
Delight in bleeding, the Beast
or working to bring down the

3371
03:31:21,100 --> 03:31:26,000
government.
The family continued to live in

3372
03:31:26,000 --> 03:31:27,900
the single wide trailer in
Sandy.

3373
03:31:27,900 --> 03:31:30,800
We all just left wherever on the
couch on the floor on top of

3374
03:31:30,800 --> 03:31:34,300
clothes I never saw any
homeschooling or scripture

3375
03:31:34,300 --> 03:31:37,000
reading like they tried to show
you like they tried to show

3376
03:31:37,008 --> 03:31:42,200
people on TV.
She remembers that should be a

3377
03:31:42,200 --> 03:31:44,900
good giveaway.
Is this is this Mormonism?

3378
03:31:45,700 --> 03:31:47,900
You don't you're not even
reading scriptures together.

3379
03:31:48,800 --> 03:31:52,200
This is an excuse, this is an
excuse for us, sex cult.

3380
03:31:52,900 --> 03:32:00,400
Yep, this is not.
The wives fog all the time and

3381
03:32:00,400 --> 03:32:03,700
the fridge was locked so Tom and
the wife could eat the good

3382
03:32:03,700 --> 03:32:06,700
food.
He got out, he got food out of

3383
03:32:06,708 --> 03:32:09,100
the dumpster at an Albertsons
for the kids to eat.

3384
03:32:10,300 --> 03:32:15,100
Its.
Within weeks, green decided to

3385
03:32:15,100 --> 03:32:16,500
take his two.
Newest Brides to another

3386
03:32:16,500 --> 03:32:18,000
trailer.
He had an Elko Nevada.

3387
03:32:20,100 --> 03:32:23,600
One of the other wives had a
friend there selling magazines

3388
03:32:23,600 --> 03:32:25,100
and he wanted to bring them back
to Utah.

3389
03:32:25,100 --> 03:32:28,100
When we arrived to found the
friend really sick near death

3390
03:32:28,100 --> 03:32:30,200
but he wouldn't take her to the
hospital.

3391
03:32:30,200 --> 03:32:33,700
Allison says, I finally
convinced him she would die.

3392
03:32:33,700 --> 03:32:37,000
So we took her.
I thought it could be me and he

3393
03:32:37,008 --> 03:32:41,100
wouldn't care.
With green gone.

3394
03:32:44,400 --> 03:32:47,200
To the hospital, Allison called
her mother to drive out to get

3395
03:32:47,208 --> 03:32:49,500
her when her mother arrived.
Alison.

3396
03:32:49,500 --> 03:32:52,100
Jumped out a window of the
trailer and fled, she had been

3397
03:32:52,100 --> 03:32:56,800
married for six weeks. quote,
after I left, I wrote a letter

3398
03:32:56,808 --> 03:33:00,900
to him saying, I loved the wives
and kids but I hated the living

3399
03:33:00,900 --> 03:33:05,500
conditions and quote, she says
Well, what I didn't write was

3400
03:33:05,500 --> 03:33:08,800
how evil he is and how he
terrified me.

3401
03:33:10,900 --> 03:33:13,800
Green and quote.
Green still keeps Allison's

3402
03:33:13,800 --> 03:33:16,600
letter using her.
A missions to lay claim that she

3403
03:33:16,600 --> 03:33:23,200
was happy in his family.
She ran away six weeks later.

3404
03:33:24,600 --> 03:33:27,800
But because she wrote a letter.
She was happy.

3405
03:33:32,700 --> 03:33:37,300
Allison is found happiness, with
a new husband with whom, she has

3406
03:33:37,308 --> 03:33:39,200
three young children.
She obtained a high school

3407
03:33:39,200 --> 03:33:42,300
equivalency diploma quote is
taking me many years to get

3408
03:33:42,300 --> 03:33:44,500
where I am, but I'll never be
entirely over it.

3409
03:33:44,500 --> 03:33:49,400
And quote she says After 10
total marriages green has

3410
03:33:49,400 --> 03:33:51,900
remained married to five young
women for more than 10 years.

3411
03:33:51,900 --> 03:33:55,700
At the time of their marriages,
his wife's range from the ages

3412
03:33:55,700 --> 03:33:59,900
16.
A 13 to 16 and two were stepped

3413
03:33:59,900 --> 03:34:03,300
daughters.
Cheese.

3414
03:34:04,800 --> 03:34:08,900
Through the Five Wives are now
no longer pre-pubescent or

3415
03:34:08,900 --> 03:34:11,600
teenagers.
They remain in a childish date

3416
03:34:11,600 --> 03:34:13,600
forever.
Dressed and little girl, Philly

3417
03:34:13,600 --> 03:34:17,300
locks frocks and pinafores White
Sox and long hair and curls and

3418
03:34:17,300 --> 03:34:21,000
bows.
As of February 2002, this is

3419
03:34:21,008 --> 03:34:24,200
outdated.
Green his father, 30 children

3420
03:34:24,200 --> 03:34:30,300
green loves to be in the
national press. tapestry scent

3421
03:34:30,300 --> 03:34:33,000
tapes of greens, media
appearances to the County

3422
03:34:33,000 --> 03:34:36,000
prosecutor, David Leavitt, which
led to charges being brought

3423
03:34:36,000 --> 03:34:39,200
against him.
He was convicted on four, counts

3424
03:34:39,200 --> 03:34:43,000
of bigamy and one charge of
criminal non-support on January

3425
03:34:43,000 --> 03:34:48,100
on August 23rd 2001.
The sentence was five years in

3426
03:34:48,100 --> 03:34:50,400
prison.
Green and his attorneys

3427
03:34:50,400 --> 03:34:53,800
successfully won a battle
against having to go on have

3428
03:34:53,800 --> 03:34:58,000
against having to undergo a
cycle sexual evaluation to

3429
03:34:58,000 --> 03:35:00,000
determine whether he was a
pedophile.

3430
03:35:01,200 --> 03:35:05,100
I'm saying was, Yeah, he was.
He was.

3431
03:35:06,300 --> 03:35:10,800
On August 20th. 2002 green was
sentenced to the minimum

3432
03:35:10,800 --> 03:35:14,900
sentence.
Of five years to life in prison

3433
03:35:14,900 --> 03:35:18,100
for first-degree felony
conviction of child rape for

3434
03:35:18,100 --> 03:35:22,600
having sex with a quote unquote
wife when she was 13.

3435
03:35:23,600 --> 03:35:26,300
On the last day of Green's
bigamy and non-support trial

3436
03:35:26,300 --> 03:35:29,600
Allison stood in Pat Court, your
courtroom and face green for the

3437
03:35:29,608 --> 03:35:32,400
first time since she fled him
that night and I'll go 13 years

3438
03:35:32,400 --> 03:35:36,200
ago, nowadays, 28.
She was finally seeing him in a

3439
03:35:36,200 --> 03:35:39,100
vulnerable position during
cross-examination.

3440
03:35:39,100 --> 03:35:41,100
Prosecutor, David Leavitt
informed.

3441
03:35:41,100 --> 03:35:43,200
Green's numerous wives and
called allicin to the bar.

3442
03:35:44,400 --> 03:35:46,900
Quote, I looked him straight in
the eyes and quote, she says

3443
03:35:46,900 --> 03:35:50,700
with Triumph.
Nice.

3444
03:35:52,200 --> 03:35:55,300
So look.
This, this story is highly

3445
03:35:55,300 --> 03:35:59,400
corroborated, right?
This isn't This isn't maybe it

3446
03:35:59,400 --> 03:36:00,000
happened.
Maybe it didn't.

3447
03:36:02,100 --> 03:36:05,500
Write.
Some of the stories in there,

3448
03:36:05,500 --> 03:36:11,100
maybe they didn't, maybe some of
them are exaggerated. but the

3449
03:36:11,100 --> 03:36:15,200
fact that these stories are
exist, And they exist.

3450
03:36:15,200 --> 03:36:20,200
Not just in Lebanon.
Their stories from the death LDS

3451
03:36:20,200 --> 03:36:22,600
to a course, right?
And you know, that's the thing

3452
03:36:22,600 --> 03:36:25,300
like I understood that the flds
was the boogie man.

3453
03:36:26,500 --> 03:36:30,200
Coming into fundamentalism.
I knew about the wrongs that had

3454
03:36:30,200 --> 03:36:32,700
happened there and that was and
I thought understood that was

3455
03:36:32,700 --> 03:36:36,200
unacceptable.
Right?

3456
03:36:36,200 --> 03:36:39,000
But we get other stories, we get
stories out of out of the rock.

3457
03:36:39,000 --> 03:36:42,800
We get stories out of the AUB.
We got stories out of the

3458
03:36:42,800 --> 03:36:45,600
branch.
I don't know if these stories

3459
03:36:45,600 --> 03:36:48,800
are all true and they have
varying degrees of severity.

3460
03:36:49,700 --> 03:36:51,600
Of the things being described in
them.

3461
03:36:53,900 --> 03:36:59,000
But nevertheless.
I feel like something needs to

3462
03:36:59,000 --> 03:37:11,200
be done. and, There is a.
So there was a book called Gulag

3463
03:37:11,200 --> 03:37:14,300
archipelago, by Alexander
Schultz, and he talks about his

3464
03:37:14,300 --> 03:37:16,500
time in the in the gulags in
Russia.

3465
03:37:17,500 --> 03:37:21,000
And surviving them and he kind
of became a philosopher from the

3466
03:37:21,000 --> 03:37:24,800
things that he experienced.
And one of the points he makes

3467
03:37:24,800 --> 03:37:27,300
in the book, talking about the
future of Russia.

3468
03:37:29,700 --> 03:37:33,100
Because the Soviet Union fell.
It was a Soviet Union that did

3469
03:37:33,100 --> 03:37:37,400
that to him that that made this
horrific meat grinder and

3470
03:37:37,400 --> 03:37:39,100
started shoving its own people
into it.

3471
03:37:39,800 --> 03:37:41,500
Right.
That happened under the Soviet

3472
03:37:41,500 --> 03:37:44,100
Union.
It is now Russia again.

3473
03:37:45,700 --> 03:37:49,800
And the people are free and Alex
and Alexander, Alexander

3474
03:37:49,800 --> 03:37:51,200
Schultz.
And it's like her.

3475
03:37:51,200 --> 03:37:53,500
No, he's not.
He's saying we have problems,

3476
03:37:53,500 --> 03:37:56,800
still.
Yep, the Soviet Union fell.

3477
03:37:57,400 --> 03:38:05,200
But there was never.
A national repentance. 100%.

3478
03:38:06,000 --> 03:38:08,900
Things that happened, maybe they
weren't intentional.

3479
03:38:10,200 --> 03:38:15,700
The things happened. and this
was his concern with that

3480
03:38:15,700 --> 03:38:21,500
without a without a public
without a seriously, be public.

3481
03:38:21,500 --> 03:38:24,400
But without an internal
recognition that you know what?

3482
03:38:24,400 --> 03:38:28,100
Yeah, it might have been it
might have been those communist

3483
03:38:28,100 --> 03:38:30,800
leaders that that set this
machine in motion, but we kind

3484
03:38:30,800 --> 03:38:35,500
of stood by We didn't, we didn't
we didn't raise up and put a

3485
03:38:35,500 --> 03:38:41,200
stop to it. that, that To use
Mormon clerk that the blood and

3486
03:38:41,200 --> 03:38:43,200
sins of that generation were on
them, too.

3487
03:38:44,300 --> 03:38:46,800
Right.
This is a guilt that Germans

3488
03:38:46,800 --> 03:38:49,500
experience and they did
experience this Guild have the

3489
03:38:49,500 --> 03:38:52,200
World War Two because the world
made sure they did.

3490
03:38:53,300 --> 03:38:55,800
All right, we had the Nuremberg
trials.

3491
03:38:57,100 --> 03:38:59,100
Yep.
And we made sure as much as

3492
03:38:59,100 --> 03:39:01,000
possible that Justice was
served.

3493
03:39:02,100 --> 03:39:05,200
And the truth.
Of the whores would come out.

3494
03:39:06,700 --> 03:39:09,600
Yep.
I don't know how widespread this

3495
03:39:09,600 --> 03:39:12,600
is.
I don't know how prevalent it

3496
03:39:12,600 --> 03:39:15,000
is, but the fact that it exists
at all, one of my biggest

3497
03:39:15,000 --> 03:39:19,600
criticisms of the LDS church is
that they will not come clean.

3498
03:39:20,700 --> 03:39:22,600
About their covering up of
abuse.

3499
03:39:24,800 --> 03:39:26,700
Yup.
That they think they can just

3500
03:39:26,700 --> 03:39:31,200
ignore that that happened.
They can ignore that

3501
03:39:31,200 --> 03:39:36,900
christopherson's brother was
caught as a PDF.

3502
03:39:37,900 --> 03:39:40,100
And then they put him back in a
bishop brick and he did it

3503
03:39:40,100 --> 03:39:41,700
again.
Yeah.

3504
03:39:43,800 --> 03:39:45,300
You don't get a sweep that under
the rug.

3505
03:39:45,300 --> 03:39:48,300
You don't get to say in our
church.

3506
03:39:48,300 --> 03:39:50,300
We don't apologize.
Even when we're wrong.

3507
03:39:50,300 --> 03:39:53,700
You don't get to say that there
has to be a understanding.

3508
03:39:54,700 --> 03:39:58,400
Or the festering wounds in that
pain, the blood and sin of that

3509
03:39:58,408 --> 03:40:04,400
generation ends up on your
garments. and, The dead cry out.

3510
03:40:05,600 --> 03:40:09,300
For justice.
I want to see fundamentalism

3511
03:40:09,300 --> 03:40:13,600
succeed because I have a
testimony that Plural.

3512
03:40:13,600 --> 03:40:16,700
Marriage is a Divine form of
marriage.

3513
03:40:16,700 --> 03:40:19,900
It is not for everybody and it
probably does damn more than

3514
03:40:19,900 --> 03:40:24,800
than it exalts.
But nonetheless, There is

3515
03:40:24,800 --> 03:40:27,900
nothing.
Inherently abusive in plural,

3516
03:40:27,900 --> 03:40:31,700
marriage.
But there is so much abuse in

3517
03:40:31,700 --> 03:40:35,400
some of the ideas or the
possibilities of abuse in some

3518
03:40:35,400 --> 03:40:38,200
of the ideas and the culture
surrounding it.

3519
03:40:39,100 --> 03:40:43,200
That it needs to be separated,
it needs to be called out.

3520
03:40:47,400 --> 03:40:52,600
I remember when I first came
into fundamentalism, And I

3521
03:40:52,608 --> 03:40:54,800
thought a good listener.
Test was tell me what you think

3522
03:40:54,808 --> 03:40:58,400
about Warren Jeffs in my Naive,
you know.

3523
03:40:59,300 --> 03:41:04,800
Searching around, right?
and, I talked to some of the

3524
03:41:04,800 --> 03:41:07,500
people who had been fundamentals
for a while and they all said

3525
03:41:07,500 --> 03:41:09,400
the same thing.
Well, we kind of knew that what

3526
03:41:09,400 --> 03:41:12,100
was going on down there, right?
We understood that there were

3527
03:41:12,100 --> 03:41:14,600
some things that weren't quite
right.

3528
03:41:16,100 --> 03:41:17,800
And I couldn't help ask the
question.

3529
03:41:17,800 --> 03:41:20,200
Well why why didn't you do
something?

3530
03:41:21,600 --> 03:41:23,500
Why didn't you why didn't you
say something?

3531
03:41:24,600 --> 03:41:26,500
Right.
Why why Let It Go?

3532
03:41:26,500 --> 03:41:28,800
Why not reach out to the members
and be like, you don't have to

3533
03:41:28,800 --> 03:41:32,600
live this way?
um, why not?

3534
03:41:35,100 --> 03:41:38,800
and I want to say this, when
that all went down, For

3535
03:41:38,800 --> 03:41:41,700
fundamentalists.
That should have been like.

3536
03:41:43,100 --> 03:41:48,100
The moment we discovered the
Holocaust and would we say never

3537
03:41:48,100 --> 03:41:51,300
again?
That should have been our never

3538
03:41:51,300 --> 03:41:54,600
again moment.
And my favorite is.

3539
03:41:55,500 --> 03:42:00,000
My fear is is that we have had
that moment collectively yet.

3540
03:42:00,900 --> 03:42:03,100
But that should be the moment
that we look back on.

3541
03:42:03,100 --> 03:42:06,500
Now, you still time.
That you can look back on it and

3542
03:42:06,500 --> 03:42:09,400
Say, Never Again.
Never again.

3543
03:42:11,800 --> 03:42:15,200
And not my name.
We are quick to denounce

3544
03:42:15,200 --> 03:42:24,300
wickedness as we should. but, We
do ourselves, no favor.

3545
03:42:24,300 --> 03:42:30,000
If we don't clean up our own ACT
first, And look, I want to say

3546
03:42:30,000 --> 03:42:36,500
this. in, in most of the people
I associate with the vast

3547
03:42:36,500 --> 03:42:40,900
majority of fundamentalists that
I have, well, all the

3548
03:42:40,900 --> 03:42:44,800
fundamentalists I have coming to
contact with For the most part

3549
03:42:44,800 --> 03:42:49,600
have been upright, good people.
But some of this is still going.

3550
03:42:50,300 --> 03:42:52,400
Right.
It's still going on, right?

3551
03:42:52,400 --> 03:42:57,300
I know leadership of several
different groups who love their

3552
03:42:57,300 --> 03:43:00,700
people who want nothing better
for their people.

3553
03:43:00,700 --> 03:43:04,300
There are times when I think
about those men, I am moved to

3554
03:43:04,300 --> 03:43:07,700
tears with the amount of love
and concern, they express for

3555
03:43:07,700 --> 03:43:16,200
their membership. but we still,
Have a little bit of work to do

3556
03:43:16,208 --> 03:43:20,500
to stamp this out and remove it
but we have to have the courage

3557
03:43:20,500 --> 03:43:25,100
to look first and have these
uncomfortable conversations so

3558
03:43:25,100 --> 03:43:30,800
that we can Purge this from us
and we we can deal with it in a

3559
03:43:30,800 --> 03:43:36,100
way that allows for forgiveness
and Grace and repentance and

3560
03:43:36,100 --> 03:43:39,900
then allows us to move forward
so that we can we can be those

3561
03:43:39,900 --> 03:43:44,200
those you know, families that
are and communities that are

3562
03:43:44,200 --> 03:43:47,800
happy and vibrant and alive and
going forward.

3563
03:43:49,000 --> 03:43:51,700
And this is one of the things
we've got to get rid of if we

3564
03:43:51,700 --> 03:43:56,500
want to take that next step.
Well yeah, let's get specific

3565
03:43:56,500 --> 03:44:00,000
because I having gone through
this book.

3566
03:44:01,600 --> 03:44:04,200
I don't think this is.
I said this is not a polygamy

3567
03:44:04,200 --> 03:44:06,900
problem, but there are other
problems.

3568
03:44:06,900 --> 03:44:09,800
And I think that when these
other problems are addressed,

3569
03:44:11,100 --> 03:44:14,900
then plural marriage can be free
of this game.

3570
03:44:16,000 --> 03:44:19,300
So let's get it free.
What are the issues then?

3571
03:44:19,300 --> 03:44:22,900
I I read the book.
I was analyzing.

3572
03:44:22,900 --> 03:44:26,700
I prayed about it.
And I have six points.

3573
03:44:26,700 --> 03:44:31,400
I want to share that.
As fundamentalists.

3574
03:44:32,000 --> 03:44:34,900
Our families and our
organizations.

3575
03:44:34,900 --> 03:44:39,600
I feel need to be able to say
this is wrong.

3576
03:44:40,400 --> 03:44:44,900
On these six points.
And some of them might be hard

3577
03:44:44,900 --> 03:44:47,700
to face.
And they're not all necessarily

3578
03:44:47,700 --> 03:44:50,400
none of them are inherently
abusive.

3579
03:44:50,400 --> 03:44:56,000
But like I said, we live in a
day and age and when when you

3580
03:44:56,000 --> 03:45:01,400
have a system, and these are
accepted beliefs, there will be

3581
03:45:01,400 --> 03:45:05,300
abused.
And none of these beliefs to be

3582
03:45:05,308 --> 03:45:08,500
clear either.
I don't think they were all

3583
03:45:08,500 --> 03:45:12,500
introduced with Mal intent.
Let me say that too.

3584
03:45:12,500 --> 03:45:15,200
I don't think that the people
who introduced some of these

3585
03:45:15,200 --> 03:45:18,900
things were were gunning for for
an opportunity to abuse

3586
03:45:18,900 --> 03:45:21,200
children.
No, I agree.

3587
03:45:22,400 --> 03:45:24,900
They were brought in for a
reason, there's cultural stuff,

3588
03:45:24,900 --> 03:45:28,600
there's historical stuff and
they were wrong.

3589
03:45:28,600 --> 03:45:31,600
But that's the thing, they were
wrong and they need to be

3590
03:45:31,600 --> 03:45:33,400
abandoned and they need to be
disavowed.

3591
03:45:34,500 --> 03:45:36,100
Yep.
That doesn't disavow the people

3592
03:45:36,100 --> 03:45:38,800
who did it.
Just like me saying underage,

3593
03:45:38,800 --> 03:45:42,400
marriages should be illegal is
not me throwing Joseph Smith

3594
03:45:42,400 --> 03:45:44,200
under the bus.
It's throwing Tom, Green under

3595
03:45:44,200 --> 03:45:47,700
the bus or your grandparents?
They're different, yeah, or my

3596
03:45:47,700 --> 03:45:49,900
grandparents, these are
different situations.

3597
03:45:51,000 --> 03:45:53,000
Yep.
So with that.

3598
03:45:54,700 --> 03:45:56,900
I want to go over six points
with the audience.

3599
03:45:59,200 --> 03:46:00,800
You want to share screen for
this?

3600
03:46:01,500 --> 03:46:06,300
Ah, I should have said that way.
I Don't have visuals

3601
03:46:06,300 --> 03:46:10,600
necessarily, okay, but they're
short, they're short.

3602
03:46:10,600 --> 03:46:12,100
And then we're going to or we
can discuss.

3603
03:46:12,100 --> 03:46:13,300
Why though?
It was when we need, okay?

3604
03:46:14,600 --> 03:46:16,600
So number one, underage
marriage.

3605
03:46:16,600 --> 03:46:19,508
We are already talked about this
but underage marriage has to be

3606
03:46:19,516 --> 03:46:25,400
that has to be a no has to be a
know, even if even if you pray

3607
03:46:25,400 --> 03:46:28,300
about it and you know that it's
okay because that's the right

3608
03:46:28,300 --> 03:46:32,000
one and they're ready, it has to
be a no Right.

3609
03:46:32,000 --> 03:46:34,200
No exceptions.
Yep.

3610
03:46:35,100 --> 03:46:38,300
Okay, if you're sure that 16
year old is supposed to be in

3611
03:46:38,300 --> 03:46:41,400
your family and you are so sure
about that that you've quote

3612
03:46:41,400 --> 03:46:44,900
received a revelation.
That Revelation can steal for

3613
03:46:44,908 --> 03:46:46,800
another two years.
Yeah.

3614
03:46:48,000 --> 03:46:50,300
And if you're talking about, and
if you think God saying

3615
03:46:50,300 --> 03:46:52,300
otherwise, then you are the
problem.

3616
03:46:53,100 --> 03:46:55,200
Yep.
If you think God's saying

3617
03:46:55,200 --> 03:46:56,600
otherwise, you can't wait two
years.

3618
03:46:56,600 --> 03:46:59,600
You can't wait three years.
You can't wait till this can be

3619
03:46:59,608 --> 03:47:03,100
done legally.
Know.

3620
03:47:04,000 --> 03:47:06,800
Yes, not how God operates.
Yep.

3621
03:47:08,100 --> 03:47:10,300
That's not how religions
function either and when you

3622
03:47:10,300 --> 03:47:12,800
start saying that is how God
operates that is, how religions

3623
03:47:12,800 --> 03:47:16,900
function.
You you are you are founding a

3624
03:47:16,900 --> 03:47:18,300
cult.
Yep.

3625
03:47:18,300 --> 03:47:26,000
Okay.
Point number two, Placement

3626
03:47:26,000 --> 03:47:29,400
slash arranged marriage.
Mm-hmm.

3627
03:47:30,900 --> 03:47:35,300
I know this is a thing places.
I didn't understand it until

3628
03:47:35,300 --> 03:47:40,000
evaluating it in context.
It's easy to think that this

3629
03:47:40,000 --> 03:47:41,400
could be an inspired thing,
right?

3630
03:47:41,400 --> 03:47:45,200
Because if you've got, if you've
got a prophet like Joseph Smith.

3631
03:47:45,200 --> 03:47:49,400
Surely surely, it could be okay
to go to Joseph Smith and be

3632
03:47:49,400 --> 03:47:53,100
like, who should I marry Right,
what's wrong with that?

3633
03:47:56,400 --> 03:48:00,500
Well.
There's some issues even even

3634
03:48:00,500 --> 03:48:03,000
there, I'd say there's certain
potential issues, right?

3635
03:48:03,000 --> 03:48:05,600
But here's, here's my take on
this, okay?

3636
03:48:07,000 --> 03:48:12,800
because, who you marry is the
most Significant important life.

3637
03:48:12,800 --> 03:48:15,000
Any eternal life determining
decision.

3638
03:48:15,000 --> 03:48:19,300
You will make in your life.
You all parties involved, both

3639
03:48:19,300 --> 03:48:21,600
parties involved and down the
road.

3640
03:48:21,608 --> 03:48:26,500
Maybe three or four.
They need to be able to own that

3641
03:48:26,500 --> 03:48:29,900
decision.
Yep, they need to be able to own

3642
03:48:29,900 --> 03:48:33,500
it.
Yep, I'm not saying that there's

3643
03:48:33,500 --> 03:48:38,500
not place for for parents.
And the community and

3644
03:48:38,500 --> 03:48:42,000
religiously leaders to give
advice and inspiration and

3645
03:48:42,000 --> 03:48:44,600
Direction and help to bring
people together.

3646
03:48:44,600 --> 03:48:47,000
There is nothing wrong with that
whatsoever.

3647
03:48:48,800 --> 03:48:52,900
That's not what I'm talking
about. what I'm talking about is

3648
03:48:52,900 --> 03:48:57,300
when, if you do not ask The
prophet to assign you a husband,

3649
03:48:57,300 --> 03:49:00,800
you don't have a Celestial
marriage, right?

3650
03:49:00,800 --> 03:49:05,100
Exactly, exactly.
I'm talking about here here so

3651
03:49:05,100 --> 03:49:06,000
tooth.
Why is it wrong?

3652
03:49:06,000 --> 03:49:07,100
Explain?
Why it's wrong?

3653
03:49:07,100 --> 03:49:09,700
Dave?
Yeah, that was just gonna say

3654
03:49:09,700 --> 03:49:11,600
there.
There's a couple things here

3655
03:49:11,600 --> 03:49:15,200
that we need to talk about on
this.

3656
03:49:16,400 --> 03:49:21,100
One, I want to say just like you
did at the beginning of this, I

3657
03:49:21,100 --> 03:49:26,100
have no problems with a young
man or a young woman going to

3658
03:49:26,100 --> 03:49:30,200
their ecclesiastical leader.
And then saying something to the

3659
03:49:30,200 --> 03:49:32,900
effect of gosh, you know what
I've been trying to pray about

3660
03:49:32,900 --> 03:49:36,700
who I should marry, and I've
just been drawing a blank.

3661
03:49:36,700 --> 03:49:39,000
Can you help me?
I think that's great.

3662
03:49:39,000 --> 03:49:45,300
I think that's great, right?
As long as That leader doesn't

3663
03:49:45,300 --> 03:49:48,700
give the the Sith the Lord
Revelation that goes along with

3664
03:49:48,700 --> 03:49:49,500
it.
Alright?

3665
03:49:49,500 --> 03:49:53,300
Hey this is what I prayed about,
this is what I feel, but you

3666
03:49:53,300 --> 03:49:55,800
really need to have your own
witness of this go.

3667
03:49:55,800 --> 03:49:58,400
Let's start the courtship
process and see if this works

3668
03:49:58,400 --> 03:50:00,500
and if it comes back, hey this
isn't going to work.

3669
03:50:00,500 --> 03:50:05,300
The first thing that religiously
should not say is well the Lord

3670
03:50:05,300 --> 03:50:08,600
said so so get over there right,
right?

3671
03:50:08,600 --> 03:50:11,200
Doesn't doesn't work that way,
okay?

3672
03:50:14,000 --> 03:50:21,200
Here's the other way, it's bad.
I know of a situation. where,

3673
03:50:22,500 --> 03:50:27,200
there was a young woman who got
married to the young man.

3674
03:50:28,500 --> 03:50:32,000
Who.
Um, was arranged, right?

3675
03:50:32,000 --> 03:50:35,400
Sanctioned blessed.
By the man.

3676
03:50:37,100 --> 03:50:39,300
It doesn't work out the young
man turns out to be.

3677
03:50:41,100 --> 03:50:43,900
Blessed than what was
advertised.

3678
03:50:45,400 --> 03:50:51,200
Young woman wants a divorce.
Goes to. her leader and said,

3679
03:50:52,300 --> 03:50:54,600
We're getting a divorce but I
would like to be remarried.

3680
03:50:55,300 --> 03:50:58,700
And here's what came back.
Well this was the Lord's will

3681
03:50:58,700 --> 03:51:00,800
for you.
This is just a trial that you're

3682
03:51:00,800 --> 03:51:03,700
called to endure.
Go and enjoy it and I'm sure

3683
03:51:03,700 --> 03:51:07,900
things will get better.
That is the wrong answer.

3684
03:51:08,900 --> 03:51:11,700
Yeah, and basically saying I'm
not going to see you to anybody

3685
03:51:11,700 --> 03:51:13,700
else.
Right.

3686
03:51:13,700 --> 03:51:16,000
And I hope that situation has
been rectified.

3687
03:51:17,100 --> 03:51:21,400
But nonetheless.
If it has, that's great.

3688
03:51:21,400 --> 03:51:25,000
But nonetheless, that's the
wrong answer.

3689
03:51:25,000 --> 03:51:27,400
That is depriving somebody of
their agency.

3690
03:51:27,400 --> 03:51:31,200
Now, exactly could be what could
be the outgrowth of that.

3691
03:51:31,200 --> 03:51:35,800
Well, if you're putting so much
stock into this one guy who

3692
03:51:35,800 --> 03:51:40,600
talks to God and God talks to
him, And they arrange that

3693
03:51:40,608 --> 03:51:43,600
marriage.
And then that marriage falls

3694
03:51:43,600 --> 03:51:46,700
apart.
Now you've created a faith

3695
03:51:46,700 --> 03:51:49,300
crisis.
On top of another Faith, crisis

3696
03:51:49,300 --> 03:51:53,200
of Justice, dude, being less
than than optimal, right?

3697
03:51:54,100 --> 03:51:58,000
you've created another Faith
crisis, as in Why would God do

3698
03:51:58,000 --> 03:52:00,600
that to me and does God really
talk to that man.

3699
03:52:00,600 --> 03:52:04,400
So as a leader it's not a great,
it's not a great thing to be

3700
03:52:04,400 --> 03:52:06,400
taking that stance and I watched
it happen.

3701
03:52:07,700 --> 03:52:09,600
Should say, I watched it, I
heard about it happen.

3702
03:52:10,200 --> 03:52:13,000
Dave, okay, was David called of
God.

3703
03:52:15,000 --> 03:52:17,000
The King.
David King David?

3704
03:52:17,000 --> 03:52:19,100
Yeah.
Was David called of God at,

3705
03:52:19,100 --> 03:52:19,900
yeah.
Yeah.

3706
03:52:21,200 --> 03:52:23,200
Did he fall?
Yeah.

3707
03:52:24,700 --> 03:52:27,300
Yeah, that's why that's why
you've got to be able to own

3708
03:52:27,300 --> 03:52:28,900
that.
Right.

3709
03:52:28,900 --> 03:52:31,300
Yeah put that on somebody else.
Even a good guy.

3710
03:52:31,300 --> 03:52:34,700
Even somebody like King David, a
man after the Lord's own heart

3711
03:52:34,700 --> 03:52:39,600
can fall.
Can you take responsibility?

3712
03:52:39,600 --> 03:52:43,200
If you are a parent or you are a
priesthood head assigning

3713
03:52:43,200 --> 03:52:45,600
marriages.
Can you take responsibility?

3714
03:52:46,700 --> 03:52:51,800
If it doesn't work out.
Yeah, I only know one person who

3715
03:52:51,800 --> 03:52:53,500
can take responsibility if it
doesn't work out.

3716
03:52:53,500 --> 03:52:57,000
That's, that's Father in heaven.
Well yeah, I thought you meant

3717
03:52:57,000 --> 03:52:58,800
like take responsibility and own
your own.

3718
03:52:58,800 --> 03:53:02,400
Crap on why it fell apart?
Know, make it better fix it.

3719
03:53:02,400 --> 03:53:03,900
Fix it.
Right.

3720
03:53:03,900 --> 03:53:07,800
Right.
Actually make things rectified

3721
03:53:07,800 --> 03:53:10,300
right.
Sorry, I misunderstood what you

3722
03:53:10,308 --> 03:53:15,900
were asking their But yeah, sure
that as well. the, the next

3723
03:53:15,900 --> 03:53:20,800
thing that I would say about
this, Is that?

3724
03:53:22,900 --> 03:53:24,800
When we engage in those
practices.

3725
03:53:26,300 --> 03:53:29,500
Like it or not.
We are.

3726
03:53:30,800 --> 03:53:32,700
Taking away.
Somebody else's agency.

3727
03:53:34,200 --> 03:53:36,800
Right.
And look they may say well you

3728
03:53:36,800 --> 03:53:39,700
can do what you want but it may
or may not be a Eternal

3729
03:53:39,700 --> 03:53:42,100
Marriage.
Well, that's that's not right

3730
03:53:42,100 --> 03:53:43,900
either.
Because what you've done is

3731
03:53:43,900 --> 03:53:48,100
you've been, you've put a cloud
to dispersion over a brand new

3732
03:53:48,100 --> 03:53:52,900
marriage and what which one of
us is Mormons would want to

3733
03:53:52,900 --> 03:53:55,600
start out a marriage, with maybe
we're sealed, and maybe we're

3734
03:53:55,600 --> 03:54:00,700
not.
Because this may or may not be

3735
03:54:00,700 --> 03:54:04,100
the Lord's will. know, you want
to walk into that, pretty

3736
03:54:04,100 --> 03:54:09,000
certain because you received
your own personal Witness And

3737
03:54:09,000 --> 03:54:11,800
finally, here's the other bad
thing that comes with this.

3738
03:54:13,700 --> 03:54:15,600
And that sort of system, you
know, who gets married.

3739
03:54:16,400 --> 03:54:21,300
He who kisses the ass the most.
Of the one man that's who gets

3740
03:54:21,300 --> 03:54:28,600
married. and so, and it turns
women into chattel to be To be

3741
03:54:28,600 --> 03:54:32,000
dispersed to.
To the Yes, Men.

3742
03:54:33,300 --> 03:54:35,900
And so it's got problems written
all over.

3743
03:54:37,100 --> 03:54:41,000
Again, I have no issues with a
young man or a young woman of

3744
03:54:41,000 --> 03:54:44,700
their own volition.
Coming to a priesthood leader.

3745
03:54:44,700 --> 03:54:47,100
And saying gosh, I'm just
drawing a blank.

3746
03:54:47,100 --> 03:54:50,600
I don't know who I should marry.
You are doing a good thing as an

3747
03:54:50,600 --> 03:54:54,900
ecclesiastical leader and
praying about that with them in

3748
03:54:54,900 --> 03:54:57,600
praying about that yourself and
then coming back with a few

3749
03:54:57,608 --> 03:54:59,700
ideas.
But if it doesn't work out

3750
03:54:59,700 --> 03:55:05,900
during the courtship process,
allow the process to play out.

3751
03:55:05,900 --> 03:55:10,200
Do not force a marriage.
Yeah, that's what I have on it.

3752
03:55:11,100 --> 03:55:12,500
Don't first marriage and don't
lie.

3753
03:55:12,500 --> 03:55:15,500
Don't lie that it's gonna be a
lesser marriage.

3754
03:55:15,500 --> 03:55:18,900
If if it's not done by your
inspiration, that's not true,

3755
03:55:18,900 --> 03:55:23,000
show me, show me the scriptures
where it says that Your marriage

3756
03:55:23,000 --> 03:55:29,200
is not Celestial or less than if
it was entered into by two.

3757
03:55:29,200 --> 03:55:33,100
Consenting adults.
Instead of two consenting adults

3758
03:55:33,100 --> 03:55:39,300
obeying a priesthood head.
Right, I'll wait. again, we

3759
03:55:39,300 --> 03:55:44,000
don't see it and let's go back
to David because What was it?

3760
03:55:44,000 --> 03:55:47,000
The prophet told him, I can't
remember which prophet it was if

3761
03:55:47,000 --> 03:55:48,600
it was Nathan or Samuel at that
point.

3762
03:55:48,600 --> 03:55:52,600
But but what did the prophet
tell him when he confronts him?

3763
03:55:52,600 --> 03:55:55,500
About what he's done?
Considering Uriah the hittite he

3764
03:55:55,500 --> 03:55:58,400
said, how did you just ask the
Lord would have given you more

3765
03:55:58,400 --> 03:56:03,800
wise, right?
Meaning, that David had a choice

3766
03:56:03,800 --> 03:56:05,200
there, right?
Yeah.

3767
03:56:05,200 --> 03:56:09,700
If so, they weren't arranging
things in such a way like that.

3768
03:56:09,700 --> 03:56:14,300
Even in ancient Israel.
So, Where, where is this?

3769
03:56:14,300 --> 03:56:16,000
Come from, right, I understand
that.

3770
03:56:16,000 --> 03:56:20,100
Brigham Young did a couple of
times But those seem to be

3771
03:56:20,100 --> 03:56:23,100
outliers, those don't seem to be
the norm.

3772
03:56:23,100 --> 03:56:29,100
Now Joseph Smith, there's one
incident I can find and that

3773
03:56:29,100 --> 03:56:33,400
incident is a guy who if I'm not
mistaken had been widowed.

3774
03:56:34,200 --> 03:56:38,800
Joseph is at a social function.
And the way it sounds from the

3775
03:56:38,808 --> 03:56:41,200
historical record.
It's not thus saith the Lord.

3776
03:56:41,208 --> 03:56:43,500
It's like, hey, bro, I see
sister.

3777
03:56:43,500 --> 03:56:46,000
So, and so eyeballing you over
there, you should go.

3778
03:56:46,000 --> 03:56:48,600
You should go say hi and chat
her up and asked her to dance,

3779
03:56:48,600 --> 03:56:52,400
right?
That's much more of like a

3780
03:56:52,400 --> 03:56:55,100
brother trying to help a brother
to get him back into the game,

3781
03:56:55,100 --> 03:56:57,900
so to speak.
And so right?

3782
03:56:58,900 --> 03:57:02,200
This and look I want to say
this, this placement marriage

3783
03:57:02,200 --> 03:57:05,000
thing.
It was started with the best of

3784
03:57:05,000 --> 03:57:08,200
intention, right?
If I'm not mistaken, this gets

3785
03:57:08,200 --> 03:57:12,000
started down south because you
have a bunch of old men running

3786
03:57:12,000 --> 03:57:16,600
around trying to snatch up every
girl that is about ready to turn

3787
03:57:16,600 --> 03:57:20,900
of age, right?
And they they do this to try to

3788
03:57:20,900 --> 03:57:24,800
protect the girls but we see
what it more into right when

3789
03:57:24,800 --> 03:57:28,400
maybe the thing to do is just
have a priesthood meeting and

3790
03:57:28,400 --> 03:57:31,900
have the leaders that are there
being like knock it off, you're

3791
03:57:31,900 --> 03:57:35,500
being you're being discussed in
stop how about reprimanding the

3792
03:57:35,500 --> 03:57:39,800
men who are being abusive and
instead of instead of still

3793
03:57:39,800 --> 03:57:43,500
engaging from the women, That's
exactly what I was saying,

3794
03:57:43,500 --> 03:57:44,900
right?
Have a priesthood meeting

3795
03:57:44,900 --> 03:57:47,200
chastise.
Those boys who are doing it and

3796
03:57:47,200 --> 03:57:51,300
be like, knock it off.
Um, there were other ways of

3797
03:57:51,300 --> 03:57:54,500
doing it, but I do want to give
give that bit that it started

3798
03:57:54,500 --> 03:57:57,000
with every bit of good
intentions there.

3799
03:57:57,000 --> 03:57:59,100
If that I have no doubt.
Yeah.

3800
03:57:59,100 --> 03:58:02,900
But and and I am sure that his
produced many successful

3801
03:58:02,900 --> 03:58:07,500
marriages as well, where it did
work out, they made it work it,

3802
03:58:07,500 --> 03:58:11,900
maybe it wasn't even inspired
and it but it didn't have to be

3803
03:58:11,900 --> 03:58:13,900
that way.
And if you are in one of those

3804
03:58:13,900 --> 03:58:18,700
marriages, and imagine how much
more faith and confidence, you'd

3805
03:58:18,700 --> 03:58:20,600
have in yourself in your
relationship with God.

3806
03:58:21,400 --> 03:58:26,400
If you had made that decision,
Or look just being able to look

3807
03:58:26,400 --> 03:58:29,600
at your spouse in the hard times
and say did you get your

3808
03:58:29,600 --> 03:58:32,100
confirmation?
Yep, I got my confirmation.

3809
03:58:32,100 --> 03:58:34,200
You get your heart confirmation?
Yep.

3810
03:58:34,200 --> 03:58:37,800
Okay, great, let's sit here and
make it works since we both had

3811
03:58:37,800 --> 03:58:41,600
a confirmation from God that
that this is a good union.

3812
03:58:42,300 --> 03:58:45,100
Right?
Um, because you can always fall

3813
03:58:45,100 --> 03:58:47,700
back on your own testimony,
rather than relying on the

3814
03:58:47,700 --> 03:58:50,000
testimony of somebody else.
Right.

3815
03:58:50,000 --> 03:58:55,700
So in this category I am
including maybe it's not

3816
03:58:55,700 --> 03:59:00,600
coercion but if you if you are
presenting a theology that this

3817
03:59:00,600 --> 03:59:03,800
is superior this is better.
You don't get into the highest

3818
03:59:03,800 --> 03:59:07,200
Heaven's you.
Are your your marriage is going

3819
03:59:07,200 --> 03:59:10,000
to fail otherwise that those are
those are damned lies.

3820
03:59:10,900 --> 03:59:16,300
Stop lying about that stuff.
Repent. and, We need to do

3821
03:59:16,300 --> 03:59:18,200
better.
Call this out.

3822
03:59:19,200 --> 03:59:21,800
You don't have to throw, you
don't have to throw your

3823
03:59:21,800 --> 03:59:25,000
parents, your ancestors, or your
own marriage, under the bus to

3824
03:59:25,000 --> 03:59:27,800
do so.
But you can say, this is a

3825
03:59:27,800 --> 03:59:29,400
problem.
Now, we are not going to

3826
03:59:29,408 --> 03:59:33,400
continue this because we are
aware, we tried it as Alma talks

3827
03:59:33,400 --> 03:59:34,300
about.
In The Book of Mormon, we've

3828
03:59:34,300 --> 03:59:37,800
planted that seed in the ground.
We looked for the fruit.

3829
03:59:37,800 --> 03:59:42,800
It never came, it did not grow.
So we're casting out the field

3830
03:59:42,800 --> 03:59:44,800
so we can plant something there
that needs to be there.

3831
03:59:44,800 --> 03:59:48,700
So put the right.
The right tree in the orchard.

3832
03:59:49,700 --> 03:59:52,800
Because this is a dead branch.
Yeah.

3833
03:59:52,800 --> 03:59:56,500
Oh, excuse me.
I want to say one other thing

3834
03:59:56,500 --> 04:00:01,000
here on this before, before we
move on from this, and that is

3835
04:00:01,000 --> 04:00:04,700
if you are a good actor, if you
are a leader that loves your

3836
04:00:04,700 --> 04:00:11,700
people, And you honestly think
you were doing God's work. good

3837
04:00:11,700 --> 04:00:16,600
on you, but understand this, we
have examples out the Book of

3838
04:00:16,600 --> 04:00:18,800
Mormon of good Kings and bad
kings.

3839
04:00:19,800 --> 04:00:21,300
Right.
King Benjamin.

3840
04:00:21,300 --> 04:00:24,600
He was awesome.
King Noah, not so much.

3841
04:00:25,400 --> 04:00:30,600
Now, you might be a good guy,
doing your absolute best in this

3842
04:00:30,600 --> 04:00:37,600
sort of a system. but, How
confident are you that you'll

3843
04:00:37,600 --> 04:00:39,200
never have a bad profit at some
point?

3844
04:00:43,600 --> 04:00:47,000
Yeah, you that's why that's a
problem, right?

3845
04:00:47,000 --> 04:00:50,300
That's what the systemic abuse
and why it's so hard to stop.

3846
04:00:50,300 --> 04:00:52,700
Once it gets rolling.
Yes.

3847
04:00:52,700 --> 04:00:54,800
And it could have been a good
thing.

3848
04:00:54,800 --> 04:00:56,700
It could have been a really.
It could have been better,

3849
04:00:56,700 --> 04:00:58,600
right.
Maybe it was things were really

3850
04:00:58,600 --> 04:01:00,800
bad and then they introduced
this and things got better.

3851
04:01:02,100 --> 04:01:04,200
Right.
But then you get some less than

3852
04:01:04,200 --> 04:01:07,400
ideal Leader's and now it's even
worse than it started.

3853
04:01:07,400 --> 04:01:11,400
Because now now men are
Barbering and trading.

3854
04:01:11,400 --> 04:01:14,000
They're underage daughter's, his
wife's.

3855
04:01:14,800 --> 04:01:19,800
To get financial gain and, and
positions of authority and, and

3856
04:01:19,800 --> 04:01:24,000
Prestige, and the organizations.
Yeah, it's systemic.

3857
04:01:24,000 --> 04:01:28,600
Now is what it is. yeah, and and
look.

3858
04:01:29,500 --> 04:01:35,100
Maybe it's not happening at the
moment but if the doors are for

3859
04:01:35,100 --> 04:01:37,400
that, kind of abuse to start
taking place.

3860
04:01:38,500 --> 04:01:40,400
At some point, someone will walk
through the door.

3861
04:01:40,400 --> 04:01:44,300
It's just that's just the nature
of Fallen man.

3862
04:01:47,100 --> 04:01:48,600
Anyway, that's all I got on that
one.

3863
04:01:49,600 --> 04:01:51,500
Yeah.
So, let's move on this.

3864
04:01:51,500 --> 04:01:53,900
Next one's gonna be a little bit
easier, incest.

3865
04:01:54,800 --> 04:01:56,600
I'm ashamed that I got to bring
this one up.

3866
04:01:56,600 --> 04:01:59,000
Yeah no that one should be a
dead giveaway.

3867
04:01:59,000 --> 04:02:02,500
Again, I know priesthood lines.
Who have a spouse?

3868
04:02:02,500 --> 04:02:09,700
This You know who you are.
Um, as well, everybody

3869
04:02:09,700 --> 04:02:14,600
eventually.
That's will everybody at at some

3870
04:02:14,600 --> 04:02:15,400
point?
Yes.

3871
04:02:15,400 --> 04:02:20,600
Um, You Know Who You Are.
If that's your tradition.

3872
04:02:22,900 --> 04:02:26,400
I would be.
I would be for cleaning that up.

3873
04:02:27,400 --> 04:02:33,300
First off, just you um let's
just let's just get through it

3874
04:02:33,300 --> 04:02:36,800
that way.
Yeah.

3875
04:02:36,800 --> 04:02:41,300
So pretty clean cut, right?
You know, fathers and daughters?

3876
04:02:41,300 --> 04:02:44,100
No, no uncles.
He says, I don't know.

3877
04:02:46,300 --> 04:02:48,500
Siblings.
Half siblings?

3878
04:02:48,500 --> 04:02:51,600
No, no.
No, no, no.

3879
04:02:52,400 --> 04:02:54,600
You yeah.
Yeah.

3880
04:02:54,600 --> 04:02:57,800
Yeah.
And I actually believe this one

3881
04:02:57,800 --> 04:03:00,800
generally is understood, but I
think it should be thrown out

3882
04:03:00,800 --> 04:03:02,800
there as well between Sister
Wives.

3883
04:03:03,900 --> 04:03:05,300
Right.
Right.

3884
04:03:05,300 --> 04:03:07,700
Yeah, like this is this is all
incestuous.

3885
04:03:08,900 --> 04:03:12,500
This is never been, okay?
This is never been Justified.

3886
04:03:13,700 --> 04:03:18,900
I can, I can quote Old
Testament, to New Testament, to

3887
04:03:18,900 --> 04:03:23,200
the, to the Book of Mormon.
It's just, no, no.

3888
04:03:23,200 --> 04:03:25,100
This is, this is never been a
thing.

3889
04:03:26,000 --> 04:03:27,500
Right?
This is never been a thing.

3890
04:03:27,508 --> 04:03:31,200
You you're not you're not gonna
find well but Joseph, no, not

3891
04:03:31,200 --> 04:03:36,700
even that not even there, right?
Like get out of here.

3892
04:03:37,500 --> 04:03:42,300
Now, I do understand. that there
was a time in this earth when

3893
04:03:42,300 --> 04:03:45,900
people didn't understand the
problems of this, Right.

3894
04:03:47,000 --> 04:03:49,800
This scriptures were there but
they disregarded the scriptures

3895
04:03:49,800 --> 04:03:54,100
and they disregarded God's law
and they didn't understand that

3896
04:03:54,100 --> 04:03:56,000
there are physiological
consequences.

3897
04:03:57,100 --> 04:03:59,600
Yep.
There are physiological

3898
04:03:59,600 --> 04:04:02,700
consequences, this isn't, this
is not a religious value thing.

3899
04:04:02,700 --> 04:04:07,900
This is a biological reality.
Yep.

3900
04:04:07,900 --> 04:04:10,100
Beyond messed up on a moral
level.

3901
04:04:10,100 --> 04:04:14,500
It's a biological reality.
You're not keeping your blood,

3902
04:04:14,500 --> 04:04:18,600
pure you are.
You are multiplying genetic

3903
04:04:18,600 --> 04:04:24,700
diseases. the only way to stop
that is to share your genome.

3904
04:04:26,100 --> 04:04:28,300
Right.
You try to isolate it, you are

3905
04:04:28,300 --> 04:04:31,900
going to have genetic defects
out to wazoo.

3906
04:04:32,900 --> 04:04:34,700
Yep.
Yep.

3907
04:04:34,700 --> 04:04:36,900
And absolutely, I don't know, I
don't think we need to spend

3908
04:04:36,900 --> 04:04:39,200
time doing a biology lesson, but
it's very simple.

3909
04:04:39,200 --> 04:04:42,800
Look it up on YouTube, if you
don't understand incest, no, no.

3910
04:04:43,500 --> 04:04:46,000
Yep.
And I think we all understand

3911
04:04:46,000 --> 04:04:50,300
that one.
So again, I think we should all

3912
04:04:50,300 --> 04:04:54,400
understand that one but yeah,
I'm gonna say I'm gonna say it.

3913
04:04:55,300 --> 04:04:59,900
I'm gonna say it, because
There's stories.

3914
04:05:01,100 --> 04:05:02,700
Yep, hopefully they're just
stories.

3915
04:05:03,600 --> 04:05:05,300
We'll find out.
All right next.

3916
04:05:06,300 --> 04:05:08,200
This one, this one's gonna be a
little tricky, too.

3917
04:05:08,200 --> 04:05:11,200
I and I really prayed about it,
and I might have to explain this

3918
04:05:11,200 --> 04:05:12,700
carefully.
Yep.

3919
04:05:13,500 --> 04:05:17,600
Okay, patriarchal control and
subjugation of wives.

3920
04:05:19,300 --> 04:05:25,800
Okay.
So let me try to explain this

3921
04:05:25,800 --> 04:05:28,800
real quick and then I'll let you
ask some questions, okay.

3922
04:05:30,100 --> 04:05:32,900
What I'm talking about here.
Is.

3923
04:05:35,200 --> 04:05:40,600
A husband and wife have a
disagreement on something. and,

3924
04:05:42,400 --> 04:05:46,500
the man pulls says that you all
you made Temple covenants to

3925
04:05:46,500 --> 04:05:52,600
obey me And section 132, you
know, I'm a disobeying.

3926
04:05:52,600 --> 04:05:54,500
Joseph, who's gonna be
destroyed, you don't want to be

3927
04:05:54,500 --> 04:05:58,700
destroyed, do you?
You need to do what I say

3928
04:05:58,700 --> 04:06:02,300
because I'm I am your husband,
no matter what you got to do,

3929
04:06:02,300 --> 04:06:07,500
what I say.
There is no no matter what right

3930
04:06:07,500 --> 04:06:10,400
that Covenant was conditional
and as much as he follows the

3931
04:06:10,400 --> 04:06:12,200
law of Elohim.
Exactly.

3932
04:06:12,200 --> 04:06:15,900
It's conditional and I
unfortunately I hear a quote, it

3933
04:06:15,900 --> 04:06:18,500
sometimes without the condition
Right.

3934
04:06:19,900 --> 04:06:22,600
That's a bit of a problem
because as a man, here's what

3935
04:06:22,600 --> 04:06:26,300
you need to understand is a man
The Covenant that you make to

3936
04:06:26,300 --> 04:06:28,400
the Lord is a responsibility
upon you.

3937
04:06:29,700 --> 04:06:32,700
To always.
Be asking God.

3938
04:06:33,600 --> 04:06:37,800
To always have his Spirit to
know that you're making the

3939
04:06:37,800 --> 04:06:39,700
right call.
Right?

3940
04:06:39,700 --> 04:06:44,800
That's a responsibility when
your wife covenants to obey you

3941
04:06:44,800 --> 04:06:50,600
as you obey the father, That's
all a responsibility on, you.

3942
04:06:51,500 --> 04:06:56,000
because when it comes down to
it, brass tacks you have no

3943
04:06:56,000 --> 04:07:01,400
right or authority to coerce
your wife against her will you

3944
04:07:01,400 --> 04:07:06,000
don't tie up your wife, dragged
or kick it and screaming All

3945
04:07:06,000 --> 04:07:08,800
right, she is not your property.
This does not make her your

3946
04:07:08,808 --> 04:07:15,600
property. which means if You are
inspired with the decision and

3947
04:07:15,600 --> 04:07:18,500
she disagrees.
You need to, you have a

3948
04:07:18,500 --> 04:07:23,300
responsibility to convince her.
To earn her, Trust.

3949
04:07:24,600 --> 04:07:28,200
So that she doesn't. if assuming
you are inspired so that she

3950
04:07:28,200 --> 04:07:33,300
doesn't damn herself by
Refusing, because she can always

3951
04:07:33,300 --> 04:07:36,700
refuse.
A healing is not a title of

3952
04:07:36,700 --> 04:07:39,700
ownership.
And dominant is not a title of

3953
04:07:39,700 --> 04:07:44,200
ownership.
The Covenant that she makes to

3954
04:07:44,200 --> 04:07:47,100
obey you is a burden and a
responsibility upon you.

3955
04:07:48,100 --> 04:07:51,500
To have her Trust.
Right?

3956
04:07:51,500 --> 04:07:53,900
And it's responsibility for you
to make sure that you're

3957
04:07:53,900 --> 04:07:57,100
inspired.
Because there is nothing.

3958
04:07:57,100 --> 04:08:03,500
We do not believe and women are
not slaves in this country.

3959
04:08:05,400 --> 04:08:09,800
Yeah.
It's not. and and these

3960
04:08:09,800 --> 04:08:15,300
covenants don't make a woman a
Slave now.

3961
04:08:17,200 --> 04:08:19,600
Should a woman, hit her
husband's Council.

3962
04:08:22,400 --> 04:08:27,300
Only if it's good counsel.
Only if it's good, so good.

3963
04:08:28,000 --> 04:08:30,000
Let's let's let's let's let's
look at this.

3964
04:08:30,000 --> 04:08:34,000
Let's say that.
Let's say that.

3965
04:08:36,700 --> 04:08:41,500
You got a teenage daughter?
and and she's dating a dating,

3966
04:08:41,500 --> 04:08:46,400
some kid, and school and the
father's like You know what?

3967
04:08:46,400 --> 04:08:48,300
I don't think that kid's a good
kid.

3968
04:08:48,300 --> 04:08:53,500
She's she's just she's only 16.
I don't think we, I think we

3969
04:08:53,500 --> 04:08:56,000
need to tell or not to to be
date in the sky anymore right

3970
04:08:56,000 --> 04:08:58,300
now.
Right?

3971
04:08:58,300 --> 04:09:00,800
And the mother says Ah I don't
know.

3972
04:09:00,808 --> 04:09:02,800
I think she'll resist.
She'll Rebel.

3973
04:09:02,800 --> 04:09:05,600
She'll get into trouble.
Anyways I think it's okay.

3974
04:09:08,400 --> 04:09:11,700
What do you do in the situation?
Well, the dad rules with an iron

3975
04:09:11,700 --> 04:09:14,500
fist, right?
This is more than them, the

3976
04:09:14,500 --> 04:09:19,000
man's in charge.
Um well in this case he is but

3977
04:09:19,000 --> 04:09:22,600
you your wife and your daughter
are still going to do what

3978
04:09:22,600 --> 04:09:25,800
they're going to do.
You need to convince them of

3979
04:09:25,800 --> 04:09:29,400
this, but you don't, you know,
are you gonna like physically?

3980
04:09:29,400 --> 04:09:31,900
Are you gonna physically tie up
your family?

3981
04:09:33,200 --> 04:09:35,600
You gonna you're gonna pull him
from school?

3982
04:09:35,600 --> 04:09:39,300
You're gonna, you're gonna like,
how far can you really actually

3983
04:09:39,300 --> 04:09:41,500
go, how much power do you really
have?

3984
04:09:43,100 --> 04:09:46,000
Right.
Right now, on the other hand, on

3985
04:09:46,000 --> 04:09:48,300
the other hand.
What about a situation where

3986
04:09:49,700 --> 04:09:52,200
Maybe the mother's got a better
intent, maybe, maybe the

3987
04:09:52,200 --> 04:09:55,500
father's like hey you know what,
I think our 12 year old girl is

3988
04:09:55,500 --> 04:09:57,300
ready to go.
Get married to Tom Green.

3989
04:10:00,600 --> 04:10:02,900
If you're a woman in, your
husband is saying that to you.

3990
04:10:03,700 --> 04:10:05,800
Thank goodness, Tom.
Green's Dad, we don't have to

3991
04:10:05,800 --> 04:10:13,000
worry about that. but if that
came up, And the father's like

3992
04:10:13,000 --> 04:10:16,600
look I prayed about it, I prayed
about it and I'm sure the law of

3993
04:10:16,600 --> 04:10:18,000
Elohim is for our 12 year old to
go.

3994
04:10:18,000 --> 04:10:20,000
Be Tom Green's wife at 12 years
old.

3995
04:10:22,300 --> 04:10:28,000
What do you do as a woman?
you protect your family, you

3996
04:10:28,000 --> 04:10:30,400
have a responsibility to protect
your family, you are not

3997
04:10:30,400 --> 04:10:36,100
sinning, in disobeying that you
are not in violation of your

3998
04:10:36,100 --> 04:10:39,400
covenants in disobeying that,
Right.

3999
04:10:43,200 --> 04:10:47,900
So I guess what I'm trying to
say is the reality of the

4000
04:10:47,900 --> 04:10:51,500
situation is as long as women
are not allowed to be legal

4001
04:10:51,500 --> 04:10:55,900
slaves in America.
Those covenants are

4002
04:10:55,900 --> 04:10:58,300
responsibilities.
They're not Powers.

4003
04:10:58,300 --> 04:11:00,400
Just like the priest in his
power.

4004
04:11:00,400 --> 04:11:04,900
It's a responsibility as well.
The priesthood doesn't give you

4005
04:11:04,900 --> 04:11:06,500
power to coerce those
underneath.

4006
04:11:06,500 --> 04:11:09,800
You not even to do the right
thing, not even to make the

4007
04:11:09,800 --> 04:11:12,000
right decisions.
Right?

4008
04:11:12,000 --> 04:11:18,900
If you see wrong, doing you
rebuke it. but, but, You got,

4009
04:11:18,900 --> 04:11:22,600
you've got no actual authority
to control other people by

4010
04:11:22,600 --> 04:11:26,200
virtue of the priesthood.
Long patients suffer long

4011
04:11:26,200 --> 04:11:28,800
suffering.
Brotherly kindness.

4012
04:11:30,100 --> 04:11:31,800
You gotta apply that to your
wives as well.

4013
04:11:31,800 --> 04:11:33,700
You're not going to keep them
because I'll tell you what,

4014
04:11:33,700 --> 04:11:36,500
regardless, of whatever
ordinances you might receive on

4015
04:11:36,500 --> 04:11:42,800
this Earth.
On the other side. if you're a

4016
04:11:42,800 --> 04:11:47,200
woman or or your man, Really
doesn't want you.

4017
04:11:50,300 --> 04:11:52,500
That's not going to continue,
God's not going to be like too

4018
04:11:52,500 --> 04:11:58,300
bad.
Your temple sealing is an

4019
04:11:58,300 --> 04:12:01,500
opportunity.
To have.

4020
04:12:02,800 --> 04:12:05,200
An eternal family.
It is not the guarantee of it,

4021
04:12:05,200 --> 04:12:10,200
it's an opportunity.
And that I took most are pointed

4022
04:12:10,200 --> 04:12:12,600
that out when we did the temple
Covenant series.

4023
04:12:12,600 --> 04:12:16,200
And we talked about, yes, And he
nailed that out of the park.

4024
04:12:16,200 --> 04:12:20,000
And I've told everybody, if you
have a young person who wants to

4025
04:12:20,000 --> 04:12:22,800
get married and sealed have
them, listen to that one, take

4026
04:12:22,800 --> 04:12:25,500
out anything I say, and just
listen to Isaac because he

4027
04:12:25,500 --> 04:12:28,900
nailed that thing out of the
park, 100%.

4028
04:12:30,000 --> 04:12:31,400
Sorry, I didn't mean to
interrupt you there.

4029
04:12:31,400 --> 04:12:33,000
That's all right.
Yeah, exactly.

4030
04:12:33,000 --> 04:12:35,800
So in other words, if this, if
this sounds off though but

4031
04:12:35,800 --> 04:12:39,000
patriarch men are supposed to be
head of household, they are and

4032
04:12:39,000 --> 04:12:45,000
let me explain how that works.
the way that works is, As head

4033
04:12:45,000 --> 04:12:47,200
of household, I have
responsibility to get

4034
04:12:47,200 --> 04:12:49,300
inspiration on the family
decisions.

4035
04:12:49,300 --> 04:12:56,300
I also have a responsibility to
earn my wife's Trust She is does

4036
04:12:56,300 --> 04:12:58,700
not.
She is not due to give me her

4037
04:12:58,700 --> 04:13:00,600
trust.
I have her responsibility to

4038
04:13:00,600 --> 04:13:06,400
earn her Trust.
As I earn her, Trust. when we

4039
04:13:06,400 --> 04:13:11,000
have different ideas on things,
And I say, well, I have prayed

4040
04:13:11,000 --> 04:13:13,600
about it and I feel good about
this is the priesthood had my

4041
04:13:13,600 --> 04:13:21,000
wife defers. not because not
because she has to Not because

4042
04:13:21,000 --> 04:13:26,200
she covenanted to.
Because she trusts me. and

4043
04:13:26,200 --> 04:13:28,300
because she trusts me, she
believes that I am being

4044
04:13:28,300 --> 04:13:32,000
inspired and because she
believes I mean inspired, That's

4045
04:13:32,000 --> 04:13:34,800
why.
That's why she's going along.

4046
04:13:36,300 --> 04:13:40,100
If you think your wife is only
obeying you out of fear of

4047
04:13:40,100 --> 04:13:45,700
violating a covenant with God,
You don't have a wife.

4048
04:13:49,200 --> 04:13:54,700
Yeah, I think it's worthwhile to
bring up 121 here. because for

4049
04:13:54,700 --> 04:13:58,600
some reason, I've seen some
guys, not all guys.

4050
04:13:58,600 --> 04:14:02,000
Again I think most husbands and
fundamentalism are fine,

4051
04:14:02,000 --> 04:14:08,200
husbands doing a great work. if
we start in verse 39 here, it's

4052
04:14:08,200 --> 04:14:11,600
gonna lay out what the problems
are and what the solution is on

4053
04:14:11,600 --> 04:14:16,900
this, one concerning our wives,
39 we've learned by sciat

4054
04:14:16,900 --> 04:14:18,300
experience.
That is the nature and

4055
04:14:18,300 --> 04:14:21,708
disposition.
Of almost all men, as soon as

4056
04:14:21,716 --> 04:14:24,400
they get a little authority as
they suppose, they will

4057
04:14:24,400 --> 04:14:28,400
immediately be into exercise and
righteous Dominion, hence, many

4058
04:14:28,400 --> 04:14:32,200
are called, but if you are
chosen, no power or influence

4059
04:14:32,200 --> 04:14:36,300
can or ought to be maintained by
virtue of the priesthood only by

4060
04:14:36,300 --> 04:14:41,500
persuasion by longsuffering by
gentleness meekness and by love

4061
04:14:41,500 --> 04:14:45,100
unfeigned.
By kindness and pure knowledge.

4062
04:14:45,900 --> 04:14:49,300
Which shall greatly enlarge the
soul without hypocrisy and

4063
04:14:49,300 --> 04:14:52,700
without guile removing batimes
with sharpness.

4064
04:14:53,600 --> 04:14:55,200
When moved to Palm by the Holy
Ghost.

4065
04:14:55,200 --> 04:14:58,400
And then showing forth
afterwards an increase of Love

4066
04:14:58,400 --> 04:15:00,800
towards him, whom thou has
reproved.

4067
04:15:00,800 --> 04:15:03,300
Lest he esteem need to be the
guy.

4068
04:15:03,300 --> 04:15:10,900
Enemy esteem me to be his enemy.
Excuse me. so, how do we get?

4069
04:15:12,000 --> 04:15:16,800
Get our wives to follow us.
It's by exercising that right,

4070
04:15:16,800 --> 04:15:21,800
the the the patients, the long
suffering, the the kindness, the

4071
04:15:21,800 --> 04:15:25,600
knowledge, the the love
unfeigned, right?

4072
04:15:25,600 --> 04:15:29,200
And look at times in your
family, there will be times to

4073
04:15:29,200 --> 04:15:32,600
reprove, right?
But if that's where you leave

4074
04:15:32,600 --> 04:15:35,900
it, you've missed the boat
because now you gotta show forth

4075
04:15:35,900 --> 04:15:37,900
an increase of love.
Right.

4076
04:15:37,900 --> 04:15:41,900
Yeah.
And that is the doctrine of the

4077
04:15:41,908 --> 04:15:44,400
priesthood.
And, and look, I want to say

4078
04:15:44,400 --> 04:15:47,900
this too, right?
It talks about if you accomplish

4079
04:15:47,900 --> 04:15:50,000
those things.
Right.

4080
04:15:50,000 --> 04:15:53,200
Let Die and this is in 45.
Let Die bowels all.

4081
04:15:53,200 --> 04:15:57,100
So, be full of Charity towards
all men and the household of

4082
04:15:57,100 --> 04:16:01,100
faith and let virtue garnish
your thoughts and see, then

4083
04:16:01,100 --> 04:16:05,400
shall you, then shall thy
confidence wax strong in the

4084
04:16:05,400 --> 04:16:09,700
presence of God and the doctrine
of the priesthood shall distill

4085
04:16:09,700 --> 04:16:12,900
upon thy Soul as the Jews of
Heaven.

4086
04:16:14,100 --> 04:16:16,800
When, when you get to this
point, right?

4087
04:16:16,800 --> 04:16:20,600
How does do we live out in
Missouri, right?

4088
04:16:20,600 --> 04:16:23,000
Where he comes up.
Every morning.

4089
04:16:24,200 --> 04:16:29,400
Justin is the due forced at all.
No, no, no, just sort of

4090
04:16:29,400 --> 04:16:33,200
magically appears it.
Just it just happens and it just

4091
04:16:33,200 --> 04:16:35,200
right, it starts a little
dripping, right?

4092
04:16:35,200 --> 04:16:37,200
He gets a little bit bigger and
bigger and bigger, right?

4093
04:16:37,200 --> 04:16:40,500
Right.
So gentle, it's so gentle, it

4094
04:16:40,500 --> 04:16:44,400
doesn't even land, it's not like
rain, and this is what I think

4095
04:16:44,400 --> 04:16:46,100
it's telling us here is men,
right?

4096
04:16:46,100 --> 04:16:50,300
If you gain that confidence, if
you practice the love, unfeigned

4097
04:16:50,300 --> 04:16:52,500
the patience, the charity, the
kindness.

4098
04:16:52,500 --> 04:16:56,500
When you've had to reprove with
sharpness, you've shown an

4099
04:16:56,500 --> 04:17:00,700
increase of love.
Well then you can't help. but

4100
04:17:00,700 --> 04:17:06,100
have the confidence.
And the doctrine of the

4101
04:17:06,108 --> 04:17:09,300
priesthood.
Just naturally.

4102
04:17:10,200 --> 04:17:13,500
Comfortable.
It's a natural process, right?

4103
04:17:13,500 --> 04:17:19,200
I want to say this.
Well, I don't see this to my own

4104
04:17:19,200 --> 04:17:21,600
horn because I do more things
wrong than I do, right?

4105
04:17:21,600 --> 04:17:26,800
Most of the time, but last year
Amber and I celebrate our 30th

4106
04:17:26,800 --> 04:17:31,600
anniversary by going back east.
And we'd already made the plans.

4107
04:17:31,600 --> 04:17:34,500
We bought the tickets.
We arranged like everything

4108
04:17:34,500 --> 04:17:40,600
rental, car Hotel.
Everything And I find out some

4109
04:17:40,600 --> 04:17:43,800
really close personal friends,
who I just love to death were

4110
04:17:43,800 --> 04:17:45,300
coming through the temple, to
get their endowments.

4111
04:17:47,000 --> 04:17:51,000
And I just felt the Lord say you
need to be here for this.

4112
04:17:52,300 --> 04:17:55,600
And I'm like, oh crap.
Alright, so now I got a March

4113
04:17:55,600 --> 04:17:58,000
down the hall.
I got talked to Amber.

4114
04:17:58,000 --> 04:18:01,900
I'm like hey, you know this
happened right now.

4115
04:18:03,100 --> 04:18:07,900
She was irritated irritated, but
nonetheless.

4116
04:18:08,900 --> 04:18:11,100
She kind of, you know, said is
this really necessary?

4117
04:18:11,100 --> 04:18:15,100
I said, I think it is.
And she said, okay, that's

4118
04:18:15,100 --> 04:18:16,900
enough, I'll go ahead and do
that.

4119
04:18:19,000 --> 04:18:23,400
She makes all the changes and we
not only get to see our friends

4120
04:18:23,400 --> 04:18:26,300
go through the temple.
But when we do, go on our trip,

4121
04:18:27,400 --> 04:18:30,900
I all the sudden find myself in
some very interesting places

4122
04:18:30,900 --> 04:18:34,600
that will be talked about in
later podcasts here in just a

4123
04:18:34,600 --> 04:18:39,100
few months on certain dates that
I just couldn't have planted.

4124
04:18:39,100 --> 04:18:41,600
Right?
And we were calling audibles, I

4125
04:18:41,600 --> 04:18:45,200
was calling audibles all through
that vacation on one of the

4126
04:18:45,200 --> 04:18:48,200
places where we were on the
important date that I had no

4127
04:18:48,200 --> 04:18:53,100
idea was the important date.
I called an audible the night

4128
04:18:53,108 --> 04:18:55,400
before, right?
We touched down in Philly.

4129
04:18:55,400 --> 04:18:58,800
And I said, you know what, I
want to go that way first and

4130
04:18:58,800 --> 04:19:00,500
I'm just gonna leave it there
because I don't want to spoil

4131
04:19:00,500 --> 04:19:03,100
the future podcast.
But I said, I want to go that

4132
04:19:03,100 --> 04:19:07,100
way first and she's like, why
it's like oh, I just feel like

4133
04:19:07,100 --> 04:19:10,400
it's important.
And again, she was like, like

4134
04:19:10,400 --> 04:19:12,500
being married to me, has got to
be rough.

4135
04:19:12,500 --> 04:19:18,400
Um, it can't be a picnic because
I'll just call an audible when I

4136
04:19:18,408 --> 04:19:22,700
feel like it's needed, right?
but it all worked out, exactly

4137
04:19:22,700 --> 04:19:25,800
the way it was supposed to but
if Amber doesn't have

4138
04:19:25,800 --> 04:19:30,000
confidence, In me calling that
audible in the moment.

4139
04:19:32,200 --> 04:19:36,800
It doesn't happen, right?
And so, or go on without their

4140
04:19:36,800 --> 04:19:40,300
right or we're going there.
So pissed off at each other.

4141
04:19:40,308 --> 04:19:42,300
That nothing good can happen,
right?

4142
04:19:42,300 --> 04:19:47,800
And so yeah like there there
that whole thing about the love,

4143
04:19:47,800 --> 04:19:52,800
unfeigned and gentlemen and
meekness and and you know,

4144
04:19:52,808 --> 04:19:57,600
patience and long suffering.
Those are so needed and

4145
04:19:57,600 --> 04:19:59,500
establishing that relationship
of trust.

4146
04:20:00,500 --> 04:20:04,300
And I'll say one of the things
in trust men, you gotta own your

4147
04:20:04,308 --> 04:20:06,800
mistakes with your wife.
Yes, kids.

4148
04:20:06,800 --> 04:20:09,700
This is so important.
You've got to be able to, You're

4149
04:20:09,700 --> 04:20:12,700
Gonna Make Mistakes, you have
made mistakes if you don't own

4150
04:20:12,700 --> 04:20:15,800
it.
You lose trust and then you lose

4151
04:20:15,800 --> 04:20:20,100
influence and then you then and
then you're relying on nothing

4152
04:20:20,100 --> 04:20:23,700
but you may Temple covenants,
you have to and and that's all

4153
04:20:23,700 --> 04:20:27,600
you got.
Yep, and the sad thing is you

4154
04:20:27,600 --> 04:20:32,700
are still responsible as head of
household, but but at that

4155
04:20:32,700 --> 04:20:37,000
point, you you've lost it.
You've lost your ability to to

4156
04:20:37,000 --> 04:20:40,300
guide your family, right?
Justly. 100%.

4157
04:20:40,300 --> 04:20:44,100
So this is a lose-lose.
And has no place in front of the

4158
04:20:44,100 --> 04:20:47,500
right.
You don't subjugate your wife's.

4159
04:20:47,500 --> 04:20:49,900
You're not the king.
You're not the Tyrant King.

4160
04:20:50,800 --> 04:20:54,000
She is your help me and you and
you owe her.

4161
04:20:55,400 --> 04:21:04,700
You owe her on that not respect.
And and and And you have to earn

4162
04:21:04,700 --> 04:21:06,500
her Trust.
Yup.

4163
04:21:06,500 --> 04:21:09,700
And that's and if you get that
at work and you're not a

4164
04:21:09,700 --> 04:21:13,100
controlling Tyrant and you know
the last household works, you

4165
04:21:13,100 --> 04:21:15,900
are the head of the household
and everything that needs to

4166
04:21:15,900 --> 04:21:18,000
happen.
Happens the way that they God

4167
04:21:18,000 --> 04:21:21,300
intended to work in a family,
which can be complicated when

4168
04:21:21,300 --> 04:21:23,800
you've got men and women adults
with different ideas, different

4169
04:21:23,800 --> 04:21:28,300
perspectives.
Absolutely.

4170
04:21:29,200 --> 04:21:31,700
So right.
All right, next point.

4171
04:21:31,700 --> 04:21:34,200
This one's number four.
One five.

4172
04:21:34,200 --> 04:21:37,800
That was four.
Wow, we're already on Five, Holy

4173
04:21:37,800 --> 04:21:38,200
Cow.
Yeah.

4174
04:21:38,200 --> 04:21:41,000
Okay, I'm five.
This one is prohibitions against

4175
04:21:41,000 --> 04:21:44,200
divorce.
And you actually kind of already

4176
04:21:44,200 --> 04:21:47,300
already brought this one up a
little bit, but yeah, this

4177
04:21:47,300 --> 04:21:50,800
isn't, this isn't okay.
I'm not saying you should be

4178
04:21:50,800 --> 04:21:55,500
teaching, it adult that divorces
is theologically a good thing?

4179
04:21:56,700 --> 04:22:01,000
That's not what I'm saying.
But there are cases where there

4180
04:22:01,000 --> 04:22:02,800
is abuse.
Right.

4181
04:22:02,800 --> 04:22:06,400
Even a good man.
Might become a monster. and for

4182
04:22:06,400 --> 04:22:11,300
the protection of, of women and
children, They need to they need

4183
04:22:11,300 --> 04:22:12,500
to be able to get away from
that.

4184
04:22:13,600 --> 04:22:15,400
There are lines that once
crossed.

4185
04:22:16,800 --> 04:22:19,000
Can't be uncrossed.
Yep.

4186
04:22:19,900 --> 04:22:23,600
And if you're saying, there is
no recourse, you you're done,

4187
04:22:23,600 --> 04:22:26,800
it's it's done your sealed, then
you are crazy.

4188
04:22:26,800 --> 04:22:29,600
You are going to create a,
you're going to, you are going

4189
04:22:29,600 --> 04:22:34,700
to create systemic abuse in that
household instead of instead of

4190
04:22:34,708 --> 04:22:37,800
abuse.
It's now systemic abuse.

4191
04:22:37,800 --> 04:22:43,400
And that's on you as well, for
refusing to intervene in a way

4192
04:22:43,408 --> 04:22:46,700
that can help protect Those
those victims.

4193
04:22:48,700 --> 04:22:52,700
So, absolutely look.
I want to share a little bit of

4194
04:22:52,700 --> 04:22:56,300
history on this one. so, Brigham
Young.

4195
04:22:57,600 --> 04:23:01,100
You know, we, we tend to look at
Brigham Young as kind of the,

4196
04:23:01,100 --> 04:23:06,600
the hardest of Mormons, right?
Like, just nails and two degree.

4197
04:23:06,600 --> 04:23:08,700
He was right?
I mean there's no dude out.

4198
04:23:08,700 --> 04:23:11,300
He's chewing on steel and
spitting it back at you.

4199
04:23:11,300 --> 04:23:15,600
However, When it came to
divorce, if a woman would come

4200
04:23:15,600 --> 04:23:19,500
to him and say I need a divorce,
it was almost like, okay.

4201
04:23:20,600 --> 04:23:24,200
Alright, maybe a little bit of
Investigation, but pretty much

4202
04:23:24,200 --> 04:23:25,500
he was signing every one of
those.

4203
04:23:26,900 --> 04:23:31,200
If you were a dude and went to
Brigham Young and said, hey, I

4204
04:23:31,200 --> 04:23:33,800
wanted divorce.
My wife because of X Y and Z

4205
04:23:33,800 --> 04:23:37,800
outside of like adultery or some
form of abuse.

4206
04:23:37,800 --> 04:23:41,900
He was like, yeah, go go suck
eggs and go work it out with

4207
04:23:41,900 --> 04:23:42,600
your wife.
Nice.

4208
04:23:42,600 --> 04:23:47,800
Try, right.
So like, if Brigham Young was

4209
04:23:47,800 --> 04:23:51,400
was willing to granted divorce
when he thought it was

4210
04:23:51,400 --> 04:23:55,100
necessary.
You're no better than Brigham

4211
04:23:55,100 --> 04:23:57,300
Young.
I hate to break that to you and

4212
04:23:57,300 --> 04:23:59,400
anybody out there who thinks
they're better than Brigham

4213
04:23:59,400 --> 04:24:01,800
Young, good luck.
Let me know how this turns out

4214
04:24:01,800 --> 04:24:04,600
for you.
Well, I'm bringing that's one of

4215
04:24:04,608 --> 04:24:09,200
those wives go.
Yeah. he left one of his go-to

4216
04:24:09,200 --> 04:24:13,000
when it's like, all right, this
is he tried everything and she's

4217
04:24:13,000 --> 04:24:16,100
the assistant and he can't
change your mind.

4218
04:24:17,400 --> 04:24:20,200
He was finally like, okay.
Yeah.

4219
04:24:20,200 --> 04:24:23,600
That was a man in my opinion
that was using 121 as a

4220
04:24:23,600 --> 04:24:24,800
guideline, right?
Yeah.

4221
04:24:24,800 --> 04:24:26,900
He didn't tie her up.
He didn't keep her home.

4222
04:24:26,900 --> 04:24:28,800
He was like, okay, See you
later.

4223
04:24:28,808 --> 04:24:32,000
Yeah, you know.
Sorry just didn't work out and

4224
04:24:32,000 --> 04:24:36,700
off.
She went um, I yeah, so even the

4225
04:24:36,700 --> 04:24:39,900
hardest Among Us, the guy who
chewed not steal for fun.

4226
04:24:41,200 --> 04:24:42,800
Yeah.
Take your cues from him on this

4227
04:24:42,800 --> 04:24:44,000
one.
Yeah.

4228
04:24:44,900 --> 04:24:46,400
It said it's an important
remedy.

4229
04:24:47,800 --> 04:24:51,500
And unfortunate Situation's.
So, last one.

4230
04:24:51,500 --> 04:24:55,400
Number six.
The inequitable treatment of

4231
04:24:55,400 --> 04:25:00,100
wives and children.
And this one's really obvious,

4232
04:25:00,100 --> 04:25:04,500
but also a little new ones.
And I can't speak to this one as

4233
04:25:04,500 --> 04:25:07,200
much because I'm not living
this, and I don't know.

4234
04:25:08,300 --> 04:25:12,100
All the ins and outs.
However, what I am aware of as I

4235
04:25:12,100 --> 04:25:18,800
had seen I've heard of
situations where things were not

4236
04:25:18,800 --> 04:25:23,200
being done properly where you
had favoritism happening within

4237
04:25:23,200 --> 04:25:24,700
the home.
Right.

4238
04:25:26,100 --> 04:25:29,500
I don't know how you balance it
all in the best way to balance

4239
04:25:29,500 --> 04:25:32,500
it all.
But if you have a, if you have a

4240
04:25:32,500 --> 04:25:37,000
wife, that's dissatisfied With
the arrangement, then there's a

4241
04:25:37,000 --> 04:25:40,500
good chance that that
something's something wrong is

4242
04:25:40,500 --> 04:25:43,100
going on.
Yeah.

4243
04:25:43,100 --> 04:25:48,100
And you know along with this
idea this is an idea that's come

4244
04:25:48,100 --> 04:25:50,000
out of this book.
This is it's tied to something

4245
04:25:50,000 --> 04:25:51,400
else.
I just want to briefly bring

4246
04:25:51,400 --> 04:25:54,300
this up too.
Marriage.

4247
04:25:54,300 --> 04:25:56,200
There needs to be love in
marriage.

4248
04:25:57,500 --> 04:25:59,900
Oh, it is not really mirror
marriage Without Love.

4249
04:26:00,800 --> 04:26:05,900
And there is a running idea.
In some places in Mormon,

4250
04:26:05,900 --> 04:26:07,600
fundamentalism that marriage is
a duty.

4251
04:26:09,000 --> 04:26:13,600
And that it's not about having
romantic feelings for your

4252
04:26:13,600 --> 04:26:16,700
spouse.
It's about Doing what's needed

4253
04:26:16,700 --> 04:26:19,400
so that you can achieve your
Celestial Glory.

4254
04:26:21,500 --> 04:26:26,600
I think you're, I think you're
missing out. and, I think this

4255
04:26:26,600 --> 04:26:31,500
is a product of men who entered
into the principal maybe because

4256
04:26:31,500 --> 04:26:34,200
they've been taught that if you
don't enter in the principal,

4257
04:26:34,200 --> 04:26:36,600
you won't receive the Social
Kingdom.

4258
04:26:38,000 --> 04:26:40,500
So they enter into the principal
when they're not really ready

4259
04:26:40,500 --> 04:26:44,300
out of fear out of out of
religious fear, right?

4260
04:26:44,300 --> 04:26:46,500
Yeah.
And they're in love with their

4261
04:26:46,500 --> 04:26:48,200
first wife, but they took that
second wife.

4262
04:26:49,300 --> 04:26:53,300
Out of Duty.
Right?

4263
04:26:53,300 --> 04:26:58,700
And they don't know how to open
their heart and actually have

4264
04:26:58,700 --> 04:27:03,600
that romantic love with that
wife or could be vice versa

4265
04:27:03,600 --> 04:27:06,000
where they feel like they.
They take a second wife and

4266
04:27:06,000 --> 04:27:10,500
their head over heels for this
new woman and now the first wife

4267
04:27:10,500 --> 04:27:12,100
and then they're not feeling
that anymore.

4268
04:27:13,500 --> 04:27:17,500
Right, and to justify this.
We get this idea that well

4269
04:27:17,500 --> 04:27:19,500
marriage isn't really about
love.

4270
04:27:20,800 --> 04:27:25,100
It is they in the Universal love
sense, but not in a, not in a

4271
04:27:25,108 --> 04:27:29,100
you know, me a mallard.
It's not, it's not passionate,

4272
04:27:29,100 --> 04:27:32,600
it's not romantic.
It's, that's a little that's not

4273
04:27:32,600 --> 04:27:34,700
real love.
The important thing is the, the

4274
04:27:34,700 --> 04:27:38,900
commitment and the willing to
sacrifice, and don't get me

4275
04:27:38,900 --> 04:27:43,000
wrong, there is value in mature.
Love This is an issue I have

4276
04:27:43,008 --> 04:27:46,000
with with LDS, folks, too though
to a certain degree.

4277
04:27:46,000 --> 04:27:48,400
So I see a lot of loveless
marriages there too, where

4278
04:27:48,400 --> 04:27:50,800
again, people are just kind of
hanging on for religious

4279
04:27:50,800 --> 04:27:53,800
reasons, not because of their
own desires.

4280
04:27:55,200 --> 04:27:56,800
But marriage is meant to be
joyful.

4281
04:27:58,100 --> 04:28:02,500
It is meant to be joyful.
And if it's not then you know

4282
04:28:02,508 --> 04:28:05,000
maybe it's a marriage counseling
but don't give up on that.

4283
04:28:05,800 --> 04:28:11,100
Because it can be joyful. you
know, I I want to say this The

4284
04:28:11,100 --> 04:28:12,800
passionate stuff, the
butterflies.

4285
04:28:13,700 --> 04:28:16,700
That tends to go inside?
I've been married to Amber 30

4286
04:28:16,700 --> 04:28:18,200
years.
I've been married to Tanya for

4287
04:28:18,200 --> 04:28:22,500
three.
That goes in Cycles, right?

4288
04:28:22,500 --> 04:28:26,100
And I want to say this, you
should always be able to fall

4289
04:28:26,100 --> 04:28:28,700
back on the commitment thing to
make it work, right?

4290
04:28:28,700 --> 04:28:31,800
Because you're going to have UPS
in your gonna have Downs, like

4291
04:28:31,808 --> 04:28:35,700
any relationship.
And you don't just bail.

4292
04:28:36,800 --> 04:28:38,400
At the first sign of trouble,
right?

4293
04:28:38,400 --> 04:28:43,200
So sometimes Sometimes he got to
use, you know, you got to use on

4294
04:28:43,200 --> 04:28:46,300
yourself the commitment card
because if there's one thing

4295
04:28:46,300 --> 04:28:48,300
that we see in society, that's
detrimental.

4296
04:28:48,300 --> 04:28:51,500
It's that people are too quick
to divorce, right?

4297
04:28:51,500 --> 04:28:54,400
Just two quick to, to throw in
the towel, right?

4298
04:28:54,400 --> 04:29:01,200
Well, I'm just not in love with
them anymore. um, but think of

4299
04:29:01,200 --> 04:29:04,400
the work, think of the work that
when you when you're dating,

4300
04:29:04,400 --> 04:29:07,600
when you do have those
butterflies The work that you

4301
04:29:07,600 --> 04:29:09,200
put into that relationship, you
know?

4302
04:29:09,200 --> 04:29:12,700
Yes, you're working out.
You're, you're brushing your

4303
04:29:12,700 --> 04:29:16,200
teeth, extra 10 minutes, you got
mints, you combing, your hair.

4304
04:29:16,208 --> 04:29:19,300
You got some new clothes, like,
you are putting work into that

4305
04:29:19,300 --> 04:29:21,200
relationship.
That's why there's romance

4306
04:29:21,200 --> 04:29:23,200
there, though, because you are
putting work into it.

4307
04:29:24,300 --> 04:29:26,500
Alright, if you let that die
off.

4308
04:29:26,500 --> 04:29:28,600
The passion comes down, but you
can bring it back.

4309
04:29:28,600 --> 04:29:30,400
You just got the work back into
it.

4310
04:29:31,400 --> 04:29:34,200
I'm gonna, I'm gonna share a
story here.

4311
04:29:34,200 --> 04:29:36,400
I can't believe I'm throwing
myself on the bus like this.

4312
04:29:37,700 --> 04:29:40,600
So Amber.
And I, like I said, we've been

4313
04:29:40,600 --> 04:29:46,900
married 30 years, And more, the
vast vast majority of that has

4314
04:29:46,900 --> 04:29:50,600
just been Bliss, but we did go
through a rough Point patch at

4315
04:29:50,600 --> 04:29:52,900
one point, right?
It was early on.

4316
04:29:53,800 --> 04:29:56,500
Things weren't going great for a
number of reasons.

4317
04:29:58,100 --> 04:30:01,400
And I remember I I talked to my
grandfather.

4318
04:30:02,800 --> 04:30:06,500
Who kind of served as like a dad
after my dad passed away.

4319
04:30:07,400 --> 04:30:10,000
And I didn't have him long
either but he passed along a few

4320
04:30:10,008 --> 04:30:13,300
nuggets.
So I had to go to Washington

4321
04:30:13,300 --> 04:30:16,800
State to do a job anyway, and
it's when it's during this time

4322
04:30:16,800 --> 04:30:20,800
when Amber and I are really
fighting, and and my grandfather

4323
04:30:20,800 --> 04:30:22,700
says, oh, you're up here.
We should get together for

4324
04:30:22,700 --> 04:30:24,700
dinner and I'm like, fantastic.
Let's do that.

4325
04:30:25,500 --> 04:30:29,100
So, we find a steakhouse and we,
you know, sit down and start

4326
04:30:29,108 --> 04:30:31,200
eating like, well, how's things
going at home?

4327
04:30:31,200 --> 04:30:35,000
And I'm like, well kids are
good, but I don't know, Grandpa

4328
04:30:35,000 --> 04:30:38,500
like things are not wedded bliss
at my house.

4329
04:30:39,900 --> 04:30:46,800
Okay, so, oh yeah, I can happen.
and I was like, I wonder if I

4330
04:30:46,800 --> 04:30:51,600
need to think about a divorce.
And he just looked at me with

4331
04:30:51,600 --> 04:30:55,100
just this disgusted.
Look And he goes.

4332
04:30:57,000 --> 04:30:59,400
Did you really think that you
were always just gonna be?

4333
04:31:00,600 --> 04:31:03,800
Floating on cloud nine.
After you got married,

4334
04:31:03,800 --> 04:31:07,700
relationships are work son.
And sometimes you just got to

4335
04:31:07,700 --> 04:31:10,900
recognize the commitment you
made until things get better.

4336
04:31:11,700 --> 04:31:14,200
And but that level of
disappointment he had in that

4337
04:31:14,208 --> 04:31:16,400
moment.
Ooh, did that stink?

4338
04:31:16,400 --> 04:31:20,200
Right?
And and I know, I wasn't the

4339
04:31:20,200 --> 04:31:21,800
only one thinking about it at
that time.

4340
04:31:21,800 --> 04:31:25,200
Like, it took some work to get
things back on track, and it's

4341
04:31:25,200 --> 04:31:29,900
been fine ever since but, We're
all going to go through down

4342
04:31:29,900 --> 04:31:31,500
Cycles in our relationships,
right?

4343
04:31:31,500 --> 04:31:35,400
Kids are running around, you
know you're barely seeing each

4344
04:31:35,400 --> 04:31:37,200
other.
You're going to work for 12

4345
04:31:37,200 --> 04:31:39,600
hours a day.
Your wife is 10 in the kids,

4346
04:31:39,600 --> 04:31:43,400
she's running them to every
activity they have or whatever

4347
04:31:43,400 --> 04:31:48,000
and it just gets tough, right?
That's when you fall back on

4348
04:31:48,000 --> 04:31:51,200
commitment.
But to your point, the question

4349
04:31:51,200 --> 04:31:54,300
needs to be asked, am I putting
in the sufficient amount of work

4350
04:31:54,300 --> 04:31:59,400
that's needed to do that?
And that's one of those things

4351
04:31:59,400 --> 04:32:03,300
that I think we really have to
ask ourselves as guys, as are we

4352
04:32:03,308 --> 04:32:05,400
putting in the same amount of
effort.

4353
04:32:07,700 --> 04:32:09,900
You know, I got a question for
you about this, maybe.

4354
04:32:09,900 --> 04:32:14,200
I don't know where this is gonna
go but, um, What happens when,

4355
04:32:14,200 --> 04:32:16,900
if you got, if you've got
multiple wives, what happens

4356
04:32:16,900 --> 04:32:18,600
when you end up in that state
with one wife?

4357
04:32:18,600 --> 04:32:21,100
But you're not that state with
the other because I think the

4358
04:32:21,100 --> 04:32:24,700
natural inclination is to
abandon this one and focus time

4359
04:32:24,700 --> 04:32:27,200
and energy on on the one that's
you're getting along with right?

4360
04:32:27,200 --> 04:32:29,500
Is that what she did?
No, no.

4361
04:32:29,500 --> 04:32:34,500
And because here's here's, and
I'm, I can only speak for my own

4362
04:32:34,500 --> 04:32:36,500
experience, right?
Everybody's a little bit

4363
04:32:36,500 --> 04:32:39,400
different and so I'll just speak
for my experience here.

4364
04:32:41,000 --> 04:32:45,300
Two things typically happen.
One is there's a spillover

4365
04:32:45,300 --> 04:32:47,300
effect, no matter how hard I
try.

4366
04:32:48,100 --> 04:32:50,000
Right?
If things aren't going well,

4367
04:32:50,000 --> 04:32:52,600
somewhere else, I'm probably a
little certainly all the way

4368
04:32:52,600 --> 04:32:57,300
around, right?
And so there is no at least for

4369
04:32:57,300 --> 04:33:00,400
me it's really hard to isolate
it right when it's just

4370
04:33:00,400 --> 04:33:03,300
run-of-the-mill stuff, right?
You're you're in one of those

4371
04:33:03,300 --> 04:33:07,099
down Cycles. but I can tell you
something Amber's told me

4372
04:33:07,099 --> 04:33:10,200
before, right, just to give you
an example, there have been

4373
04:33:10,200 --> 04:33:17,700
times where maybe I'm You know,
having friction with one wife

4374
04:33:17,700 --> 04:33:21,900
and I'll go in and I'll, you
know, it's obvious, right?

4375
04:33:21,900 --> 04:33:26,099
And that the wife on I'm with,
will be.

4376
04:33:26,099 --> 04:33:29,200
Like why are, why are you here?
You you're not completely

4377
04:33:29,200 --> 04:33:31,800
patched up with my sister wife.
Go fix it.

4378
04:33:33,099 --> 04:33:35,700
Right?
And that's that look.

4379
04:33:35,700 --> 04:33:38,000
And I'm not saying that's
normal, I don't know what normal

4380
04:33:38,000 --> 04:33:40,800
is and these things, right?
I can only speak from my own

4381
04:33:40,800 --> 04:33:45,099
experience. but, That's how
plural marriage is.

4382
04:33:45,108 --> 04:33:47,599
Kind of made me a bedroom, man,
to be honest with you, in a

4383
04:33:47,608 --> 04:33:50,599
better husband because when
there's two people calling you

4384
04:33:50,599 --> 04:33:55,200
out on your crap, By consensus,
it gets pretty hard to be like,

4385
04:33:55,200 --> 04:33:59,200
no, you don't get it.
No, they probably get it right?

4386
04:33:59,200 --> 04:34:01,000
If two of them are seeing the
same thing.

4387
04:34:01,000 --> 04:34:05,900
Yeah, they're probably getting
it and it's at that point they

4388
04:34:05,900 --> 04:34:07,808
gang up on you.
A little bit.

4389
04:34:07,815 --> 04:34:09,500
Yeah, and look, I want to say
this.

4390
04:34:09,500 --> 04:34:13,800
My wives are awesome, right?
Like, I don't get to sit here

4391
04:34:13,800 --> 04:34:15,400
with you.
We're going on five hours now

4392
04:34:15,400 --> 04:34:19,400
with this, right?
We I don't get this opportunity

4393
04:34:19,400 --> 04:34:24,099
without my wives, absolutely
being Stellar wives and being

4394
04:34:24,099 --> 04:34:26,800
like, no, you gotta go take care
of of the Lord's business,

4395
04:34:26,800 --> 04:34:29,099
right?
And look, you know, my schedule.

4396
04:34:29,099 --> 04:34:34,500
I am insanely busy, right?
But nonetheless, they give me

4397
04:34:34,500 --> 04:34:38,700
the space to do what I need to
do because they understand I'm

4398
04:34:38,700 --> 04:34:46,300
my time's not my own anymore.
And so that's how that's how

4399
04:34:46,300 --> 04:34:49,599
this principle is made me a
better guy because I

4400
04:34:49,599 --> 04:34:51,800
self-examine a lot more than
what I used to.

4401
04:34:51,800 --> 04:34:54,900
When I was just when I was a
monogamous, I'm not saying you

4402
04:34:54,900 --> 04:34:58,000
can't get there some monogamous,
that's not what I'm saying, but

4403
04:34:59,300 --> 04:35:03,800
for for a guy like me, it makes
it easier to be like, oh, Maybe

4404
04:35:03,800 --> 04:35:07,300
my crap really does stink and
then I gotta go clean stuff up.

4405
04:35:08,200 --> 04:35:10,599
Mm-hmm.
So let me explain what this

4406
04:35:10,599 --> 04:35:13,200
isn't, right?
Or what the problem with this

4407
04:35:13,200 --> 04:35:15,400
one is let me illustrate this,
right?

4408
04:35:15,400 --> 04:35:22,500
Because we've kind of talked
about maybe how it works in a

4409
04:35:22,500 --> 04:35:24,500
proactive side.
But where how is this become

4410
04:35:24,500 --> 04:35:28,200
abusive?
This can become abusive if you

4411
04:35:28,200 --> 04:35:35,099
have one wife or family of
children that you spend more

4412
04:35:35,099 --> 04:35:38,300
time with than the others that
have better things that have

4413
04:35:38,300 --> 04:35:43,099
nice Rift things that always get
priority and or that when, if

4414
04:35:43,099 --> 04:35:46,500
there's a conflict between wives
You're always picking.

4415
04:35:47,700 --> 04:35:52,099
Sides with a favorite.
Now there are going to be

4416
04:35:52,099 --> 04:35:57,300
obviously inequalities in these
marriages, its natural position,

4417
04:35:57,300 --> 04:36:00,599
different people, different
situations, right?

4418
04:36:01,599 --> 04:36:03,400
Different stages of life, you
know?

4419
04:36:03,408 --> 04:36:05,800
Like you were just talking about
right now, you've got one wife.

4420
04:36:05,800 --> 04:36:07,900
That doesn't have little
children and she can go and

4421
04:36:07,900 --> 04:36:08,900
work.
You've got another white.

4422
04:36:08,900 --> 04:36:12,300
That's got a newborn very
different situation.

4423
04:36:12,300 --> 04:36:15,700
You can't treat them equally.
know, in that situation, that

4424
04:36:15,700 --> 04:36:21,400
would be in just but what I'm
talking about is, Inequitable

4425
04:36:21,400 --> 04:36:23,400
treatment.
Right?

4426
04:36:23,400 --> 04:36:27,800
It can be completely Equitable
to say, you know, here's what we

4427
04:36:27,800 --> 04:36:30,300
need, here's what our family
needs and What needs from you,

4428
04:36:30,300 --> 04:36:32,000
and here's where our families
and one needs from you.

4429
04:36:32,000 --> 04:36:34,300
Those things being different
Right.

4430
04:36:35,099 --> 04:36:39,000
But a balanced.
Oh balanced as a whole, right?

4431
04:36:39,000 --> 04:36:41,599
Because what I've seen in a
situation where you have like a

4432
04:36:41,599 --> 04:36:45,099
wife, that doesn't like a second
wife, and now she's gotta go

4433
04:36:45,099 --> 04:36:48,800
live out in the barn.
Right, she's gotta go live out

4434
04:36:48,808 --> 04:36:51,599
in the bar and me and you get
date nights.

4435
04:36:51,599 --> 04:36:53,099
She doesn't get date nights with
you.

4436
04:36:53,099 --> 04:36:58,099
You can see you know, once a
week Right.

4437
04:36:58,099 --> 04:37:00,599
Um, that kind of that's what I'm
talking about here, right?

4438
04:37:00,599 --> 04:37:03,000
And also bringing the kids into
that too.

4439
04:37:03,000 --> 04:37:06,900
Yeah, that happens.
And it's that's abuse, that's

4440
04:37:06,900 --> 04:37:13,300
not okay, you know, you know.
And yeah and and you It's tough,

4441
04:37:13,300 --> 04:37:17,599
right?
Because I understand that a lot

4442
04:37:17,608 --> 04:37:20,700
of this is going to vary from
family to family a little bit

4443
04:37:20,700 --> 04:37:23,400
right now.
There are certain things that

4444
04:37:23,400 --> 04:37:26,099
you just can't do, right?
Like if you got one wife, that's

4445
04:37:26,099 --> 04:37:30,599
put up in a palace and another
and And, you know, a hovel

4446
04:37:30,599 --> 04:37:32,200
somewhere that doesn't seem
quite fair.

4447
04:37:32,200 --> 04:37:35,500
I think you can do a better job
of equaling those things out.

4448
04:37:37,000 --> 04:37:42,400
However, as you were saying,
Equitable doesn't always mean

4449
04:37:42,400 --> 04:37:45,000
equal.
Does that make sense?

4450
04:37:45,000 --> 04:37:50,400
Let me give you an example.
When Tanya had the baby.

4451
04:37:51,200 --> 04:37:53,500
And the baby was in the hospital
over Christmas.

4452
04:37:54,599 --> 04:37:57,200
I had kids that had flown into
Utah.

4453
04:37:58,500 --> 04:38:03,599
From Utah to Missouri here.
And they came down with the idea

4454
04:38:03,599 --> 04:38:06,300
that we were going to have, you
know, Christmas together.

4455
04:38:07,200 --> 04:38:10,500
Well, I ended up spending a lot
of time up the hospital, right?

4456
04:38:10,500 --> 04:38:12,800
And I did spend some time at
home but I was up at the

4457
04:38:12,808 --> 04:38:18,900
hospital a lot. and, I remember,
as I was leaving Christmas Eve

4458
04:38:18,900 --> 04:38:23,599
to go back to the hospital.
Amber came out and walked me out

4459
04:38:23,599 --> 04:38:26,700
to the car to the truck.
And I just said, babe, I'm

4460
04:38:26,700 --> 04:38:28,400
sorry.
I'm not here and I know this

4461
04:38:28,400 --> 04:38:32,200
must not seem fair.
And she said, she said something

4462
04:38:32,200 --> 04:38:36,200
that stuck with me which is
you're doing exactly what you

4463
04:38:36,200 --> 04:38:40,099
need to do right now.
And she used the line on me that

4464
04:38:40,099 --> 04:38:44,200
I usually use on her which is
balances, very rarely struck in

4465
04:38:44,207 --> 04:38:48,099
the moment.
Meaning that true balance I

4466
04:38:48,099 --> 04:38:51,500
think takes time even years.
Right.

4467
04:38:51,500 --> 04:38:55,700
Um, And so I think that's
something that's important to

4468
04:38:55,700 --> 04:38:59,200
keep in mind as well.
Is that sometimes circumstances

4469
04:38:59,200 --> 04:39:01,400
will dictate?
What is equitable?

4470
04:39:02,200 --> 04:39:07,300
and then, you have to Show forth
a little bit more.

4471
04:39:09,400 --> 04:39:13,500
Care and attention to the wife
who sacrificed for a season and

4472
04:39:13,500 --> 04:39:16,000
now in the long run.
Yeah, yeah.

4473
04:39:16,000 --> 04:39:20,300
And that's that's hopefully how
how you get to achieve balance?

4474
04:39:22,599 --> 04:39:25,200
Okay.
Well, these are my.

4475
04:39:25,200 --> 04:39:28,800
These are the six points that I
felt inspired that.

4476
04:39:29,700 --> 04:39:35,599
Need to be addressed.
And again, not not necessarily.

4477
04:39:40,000 --> 04:39:49,000
Not necessarily just. from a
Let's not do this anymore kind

4478
04:39:49,000 --> 04:39:51,400
of situation or yeah.
Okay, I guess that's kind of

4479
04:39:51,408 --> 04:39:55,400
right but from a from a, this is
unacceptable, we need to

4480
04:39:55,400 --> 04:39:59,400
gatekeep, we all have a
responsibility to, to not see.

4481
04:40:01,200 --> 04:40:04,100
Abuses of these kinds happening
within our families and our

4482
04:40:04,100 --> 04:40:07,600
communities.
We are all responsible and

4483
04:40:07,600 --> 04:40:12,900
there's things that we can all
do, and Yeah.

4484
04:40:12,900 --> 04:40:17,900
So You know, I would like to say
this because it sounds like

4485
04:40:17,900 --> 04:40:20,800
you're you're close to wrapping
right up there, right?

4486
04:40:20,800 --> 04:40:25,000
Mm-hmm.
I want to say two things.

4487
04:40:27,700 --> 04:40:32,600
If, if you're In a group that is
doing these things.

4488
04:40:35,000 --> 04:40:43,000
You should be asking some hard
questions. you should, you know,

4489
04:40:43,000 --> 04:40:48,600
if if it's not meeting you or
needs, you are Justified and

4490
04:40:48,600 --> 04:40:52,700
leaving that system.
I think it's important that that

4491
04:40:52,700 --> 04:40:56,400
you advocate for yourself and
your family and get yourself out

4492
04:40:56,400 --> 04:41:04,200
of those kind of situations.
Two. if your group, On your

4493
04:41:04,200 --> 04:41:07,000
leader in a group that has
historically had these things

4494
04:41:07,000 --> 04:41:09,700
happening in your group.
Shed them now.

4495
04:41:10,900 --> 04:41:15,800
Be done with it. believe them in
the past, put them on the ash

4496
04:41:15,800 --> 04:41:20,400
heap of History where every
other bad idea belongs and then,

4497
04:41:21,400 --> 04:41:25,100
Repent and move forward.
You know, we've talked about

4498
04:41:25,100 --> 04:41:33,000
some really really hard things
here tonight. and, It quite

4499
04:41:33,000 --> 04:41:34,500
frankly, I'm like you, this is
one.

4500
04:41:34,500 --> 04:41:38,600
I never wanted to do.
Never wanted to touch this one.

4501
04:41:39,800 --> 04:41:45,200
but, I don't think there's
anybody Among Us who wouldn't

4502
04:41:45,200 --> 04:41:50,100
want.
To be a little bit more.

4503
04:41:52,800 --> 04:41:55,900
Of the the light on the hill,
the city on the hill.

4504
04:41:56,800 --> 04:41:59,800
I don't think there's any one of
us that don't want to let our

4505
04:41:59,800 --> 04:42:01,500
light shine a little bit
brighter.

4506
04:42:02,500 --> 04:42:05,700
So that we can let others know.
Hey, it's good here.

4507
04:42:06,700 --> 04:42:09,100
You know, these principles are
designed to bring you Joy.

4508
04:42:10,200 --> 04:42:13,100
But in order to do that, I think
we have to clean out the junk.

4509
04:42:14,000 --> 04:42:15,800
Right.
Just like his people

4510
04:42:15,800 --> 04:42:19,000
individually.
If we want to let her light

4511
04:42:19,000 --> 04:42:21,400
shine a little bit brighter.
Well, we gotta repent.

4512
04:42:21,400 --> 04:42:23,100
We got clean out the junk,
right?

4513
04:42:23,100 --> 04:42:27,700
And organizations are just like
people and they can make

4514
04:42:27,700 --> 04:42:31,200
mistakes and they can change for
the better, right?

4515
04:42:31,200 --> 04:42:39,300
This is not A, a death sentence
doesn't have to be anyway.

4516
04:42:41,000 --> 04:42:44,000
If you can recognize where, you
know what, things aren't great

4517
04:42:44,000 --> 04:42:46,100
in this department.
Right.

4518
04:42:46,100 --> 04:42:48,800
You've done half the work.
You've been able to look in the

4519
04:42:48,808 --> 04:42:50,700
mirror and be like Oh yeah this
is messed up.

4520
04:42:50,700 --> 04:42:52,600
Now do the rest of it.
Go.

4521
04:42:52,600 --> 04:42:55,200
The other direction.
Get rid of it.

4522
04:42:55,200 --> 04:42:59,800
Move past it.
Because I don't know of a single

4523
04:42:59,800 --> 04:43:03,800
fundamentalist that doesn't want
a happier, healthier, family,

4524
04:43:03,800 --> 04:43:06,600
and community.
And to get to that kind of

4525
04:43:06,608 --> 04:43:08,500
vibrancy.
I think we just have to look

4526
04:43:08,500 --> 04:43:13,500
Inward and It's it's awfully
hard for us to criticize other

4527
04:43:13,500 --> 04:43:17,300
systems if our systems have bad
stuff in mq.

4528
04:43:18,000 --> 04:43:21,600
And so if we wanted to retake
the moral High Ground, we're

4529
04:43:21,600 --> 04:43:24,200
going to have to start at home
and then work outwards.

4530
04:43:25,000 --> 04:43:26,900
And that's that's where I'll
leave this one.

4531
04:43:26,900 --> 04:43:29,500
I just want the audience to
know, I appreciate them.

4532
04:43:29,500 --> 04:43:32,200
I love them and how much, you
know, the time they spend here

4533
04:43:32,200 --> 04:43:36,700
with us but and I'll turn the
rest over to you just in to take

4534
04:43:36,700 --> 04:43:40,800
us out here.
All right, well with these with

4535
04:43:40,800 --> 04:43:45,300
these six points, right?
If we had always adhere to these

4536
04:43:45,300 --> 04:43:48,900
six points, This book wouldn't
exist.

4537
04:43:50,000 --> 04:43:51,500
Right.
All right, at least it wouldn't

4538
04:43:51,500 --> 04:43:54,600
be about us.
I am ashamed that this book is

4539
04:43:54,600 --> 04:43:59,100
about us, though.
And I feel like we need we need

4540
04:43:59,108 --> 04:44:00,500
to be able to make a fresh
start.

4541
04:44:00,500 --> 04:44:04,500
I agree with Dave that we can
change if these things are

4542
04:44:04,500 --> 04:44:10,100
happening, these things can
change. but, Part of that change

4543
04:44:10,100 --> 04:44:12,400
as Schultz.
And it's an explained is actual

4544
04:44:12,400 --> 04:44:17,400
repentance and that means coming
to grips with it and you know,

4545
04:44:17,408 --> 04:44:24,300
maybe I shouldn't do this but I
feel like I should Okay. maybe

4546
04:44:24,300 --> 04:44:28,500
we can edit it if you like it,
but the Nielsen name

4547
04:44:28,500 --> 04:44:31,800
organization.
As actually address these things

4548
04:44:31,800 --> 04:44:33,600
and they and they do address
these things.

4549
04:44:33,600 --> 04:44:36,100
I see their leadership talk to
their members.

4550
04:44:37,600 --> 04:44:40,800
About in the past.
Maybe this was okay.

4551
04:44:40,800 --> 04:44:44,100
And but now, These things aren't
okay.

4552
04:44:45,600 --> 04:44:50,000
And this is why and they talk
about it and they and that is so

4553
04:44:50,000 --> 04:44:53,900
important because you can decide
well, we won't promote it

4554
04:44:53,900 --> 04:44:55,600
anymore, we won't teach it
anymore.

4555
04:44:55,600 --> 04:44:58,900
But you have culture and culture
your responsible for your

4556
04:44:58,900 --> 04:45:01,300
organization's culture, as well
as its teachings.

4557
04:45:02,500 --> 04:45:06,400
If you're in leadership, right?
And as it individual, you are

4558
04:45:06,400 --> 04:45:16,200
also responsible for that
culture too. and, so, yeah, as

4559
04:45:16,200 --> 04:45:20,300
Dave said these things don't
guarantee bad outcomes.

4560
04:45:21,800 --> 04:45:24,300
These don't guarantee of these.
None of these six points is,

4561
04:45:24,300 --> 04:45:26,800
100% of the use of in and of
itself.

4562
04:45:28,000 --> 04:45:31,900
There can be situations where
these things can be non-abusive

4563
04:45:31,900 --> 04:45:34,300
and there are situations where
they weren't abusive in the past

4564
04:45:34,308 --> 04:45:38,600
too, right?
but, Where we are now knowing

4565
04:45:38,600 --> 04:45:40,700
that these are these are these
six points.

4566
04:45:40,700 --> 04:45:43,100
Open the door for systemic
abuse.

4567
04:45:44,400 --> 04:45:49,200
That's why they got to be shot.
and there's no place for

4568
04:45:49,200 --> 04:45:52,500
systemic abuse and Mormon
fundamentals, and we can do

4569
04:45:52,500 --> 04:46:05,300
better as a people and You know.
Nephi tells us to like in the

4570
04:46:05,308 --> 04:46:12,200
scriptures on Doors.
And we often read Jacob and, and

4571
04:46:12,200 --> 04:46:19,800
we make excuses for ourselves.
Because we're, we are not those

4572
04:46:19,800 --> 04:46:23,200
people.
We were not the Nephites so the

4573
04:46:23,200 --> 04:46:26,900
prohibition Jacob has to come
out and make a Prohibition on

4574
04:46:26,900 --> 04:46:31,500
plural marriage in the Book of
Mormon because things are not

4575
04:46:31,500 --> 04:46:32,400
being done.
Right?

4576
04:46:32,400 --> 04:46:36,900
I don't know what was going on.
But I think I got it as much

4577
04:46:36,908 --> 04:46:42,600
better understanding now.
And the Lord took it away.

4578
04:46:44,700 --> 04:46:47,900
Just because you have the
priesthood Keys doesn't mean

4579
04:46:47,900 --> 04:46:52,300
that, that God can't take this
away from us too. if we're going

4580
04:46:52,300 --> 04:46:58,500
to abuse his daughter's, then
he's not going to let us keep

4581
04:46:58,500 --> 04:47:00,600
this.
We're not going to be worthy of

4582
04:47:00,600 --> 04:47:02,300
it.
He's not going to ratify it.

4583
04:47:04,500 --> 04:47:07,100
We can we can wave our priests
at around as much as we want.

4584
04:47:08,000 --> 04:47:10,700
But if God doesn't ratify it, it
means nothing.

4585
04:47:10,700 --> 04:47:12,700
Amen, to the priesthood of that,
man.

4586
04:47:12,700 --> 04:47:17,400
As we Were looking at section
too and sexual ones.

4587
04:47:17,400 --> 04:47:24,500
So, as maybe some partying
advice, I would recommend a

4588
04:47:24,500 --> 04:47:31,500
rereading of Of Jacob.
Chapter 2. and, instead of being

4589
04:47:31,500 --> 04:47:39,300
like those bad Nephites, See if
see if it applies, see if maybe,

4590
04:47:39,300 --> 04:47:43,300
maybe this is, maybe there's
some lessons in here for for our

4591
04:47:43,300 --> 04:47:44,700
family.
Maybe there's some lessons in

4592
04:47:44,700 --> 04:47:48,500
here for our church. maybe
there's some things that we need

4593
04:47:48,500 --> 04:47:54,100
to change and that we can do
better at so that these kinds of

4594
04:47:54,108 --> 04:47:58,100
terrible things don't happen.
because I don't again, I don't

4595
04:47:58,100 --> 04:48:02,000
think these things happen with
Mal and tent But nonetheless.

4596
04:48:03,500 --> 04:48:06,600
Of come in.
Wolves are coming in.

4597
04:48:06,600 --> 04:48:09,900
And if we have an environment,
this is another thing in the LDS

4598
04:48:09,900 --> 04:48:13,800
church, this this culture of
cover-up of systemic abuse.

4599
04:48:15,200 --> 04:48:19,900
Yeah, draws the predators in.
It draws them in.

4600
04:48:19,900 --> 04:48:23,300
That's not, that's, that's a
signal flare to the wolf's.

4601
04:48:23,300 --> 04:48:26,400
Hey, we've got a juicy.
We've got a juicy flock here,

4602
04:48:26,400 --> 04:48:28,700
and we tore down the, we tore
down the fence.

4603
04:48:30,100 --> 04:48:36,200
Let's put that fence up.
Let's get the Wolves Out. and,

4604
04:48:38,500 --> 04:48:40,100
Let's be the people we claim to
be.

4605
04:48:43,000 --> 04:48:45,300
Awesome.
Well man.

4606
04:48:46,100 --> 04:48:48,200
That's just about five hours.
We did right there.

4607
04:48:49,700 --> 04:48:53,500
So, this shouldn't have me on.
I talked too long.

4608
04:48:53,508 --> 04:48:56,000
No, no, it's good.
It's good.

4609
04:48:56,000 --> 04:49:00,300
Look, there was no way to cover
this problem without doing our

4610
04:49:00,300 --> 04:49:03,700
due diligence, and I feel like
we got it done, but I, I

4611
04:49:03,700 --> 04:49:07,200
appreciate you coming on.
Look, this is only your first

4612
04:49:07,200 --> 04:49:09,700
appearance is here, so I guess
you got one or two more in you.

4613
04:49:09,708 --> 04:49:11,800
So we'll try to find a happier
subject.

4614
04:49:13,600 --> 04:49:15,700
Sounds good.
All right.

4615
04:49:15,708 --> 04:49:17,100
Bye everybody.