Episode #24 Saving True Mormon History W/L. Hannah Stoddard

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Today on the podcast, I have on
Hannah Stoddard.

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Hannah is the director of the
Joseph Smith Foundation, which

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seeks to defend the restoration
as given through the Prophet

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Joseph Smith, they do this by
battling false narratives and

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staying true to and telling
accurate history and defending

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Joseph Smith and other early LDS
church, president's Hannah.

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And I have an interesting
conversation about how the

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Joseph Smith Foundation was
started.

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And the work that they do later.
We discuss current Efforts of so

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called historians and revising
and rewriting early LDS, church

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history in our conversation.
Hannah does an amazing job of

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telling the story of how
revisionist history first got

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started and all the players
involved.

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We also discuss how the tactics
used in rewriting lbs.

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History is almost an exact
duplicate of, how academics

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rewrote American history
concerning our nation's

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Founders, towards the end of our
conversation.

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Hannah offers fantastic
Solutions on how faithful

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Mormons of all types can combat
this.

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Insidious attempt, every writing
Mormon history, stick around for

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that and more on this episode of
the Mormon Renegade podcast, So,

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I just want to take a moment to
thank you.

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The Listener, when I started
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Now to my surprise, this thing

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Thank you.
Your listing to the Mormon

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Renegade podcast.
Welcome back to the Mormon

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go check that out.
Today, on the podcast I have

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here with me.
Hannah Stoddard and full

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disclosure Your I am a fanboy of
the Stoddard's I think they're

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rock stars in everything that
they do.

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So Hannah, thanks for being
here.

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Oh, I am so glad to be here and
I hope I can live up to that

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kind of control.
I have so much for the invite.

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Well I wouldn't worry about you.
I've always said I'm the weak

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link here, more of you and less
of me is always a good thing.

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I don't think so.
This will be a fun conversation.

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Absolutely.
So real quick you were born and

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raised in the church, right?
I was mmm.

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I'm pretty much a descendant.
All my Ancestors, pretty much

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Pioneer stock and now except for
one line that's a convert lying.

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Really so that goes back quite a
way.

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So you probably have some really
cool journals.

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Yes.
In fact, one of my lines

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actually goes back to Joseph
Smith's cousins.

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So I guess you can say, when
we're out there defending

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Joseph, Smith's character.
It's also a personal are not

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treasure diggers.
I'm sorry.

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But no, yeah, and some of
Bodyguards are involved in those

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things.
So I guess you could say we

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definitely, I definitely come
from a family that was born and

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raised with Mormon Battalion
stories, just talking about

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being proud of the restoration
and that this isn't something to

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be embarrassed about, right?
So I'm a convert, right?

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Not and I can point back to like
one event where where I

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converted to Mormonism was there
something like that for you or

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was it a gradual build-up to
your conversion?

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I would say both, I would say
both.

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And so So I grew up my dad would
come home at lunch during his

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lunch breaks when I was 10 11
and we would read The

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Illustrated church history book
series.

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I don't know how many people
have seen those that are like 26

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volumes so good, but we would
read those.

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He would have us listen to Lucy
Mac Smith's autobiography of her

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life and the history of Joseph
Smith while we were folding

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laundry and everything.
So we definitely grew up

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watching all the Seminary
movies, everything.

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But I Do you remember?
Well, okay, so let me, let me

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step back just a little bit.
So the Joseph Smith Foundation,

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was founded by my father.
When I was started, when I was

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about 10 I just felt impressed
to do documentaries and do

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books, just helping the gospel
come alive to people and showing

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people that there actually is
history and science and data to

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support our faith.
And so I grew up doing that.

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But in the process, I remember I
remember a time when I was 14 or

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15, I'm trying to remember and I
was going through the Book of

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Mormon again, and I just It down
and I was like, I really want to

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know if the Book of Mormon is
true, like I need to know

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because if I'm going to devote
my life to this, which is where

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kind of my mind was going where
I was like, this is more than a

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family thing.
I want to take this on as my own

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I was I was like, I got to know
because I'm not going to live my

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life devoting to something.
That's a lie or a waste of time.

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And I got my answer, not in one
sitting, but actually in the

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process of working and studying
it out.

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Which is one of the things I
think is so important we have

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this debate among people where
they're like oh you know

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sometimes people hit hard
questions in church history and

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people will be like, well just,
you know, just just keep your

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faith and don't worry about that
and just just love your neighbor

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and and, and, and that is very
hard.

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I'm going to speak as a
millennial.

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Like, we need to have
intellectual conversations, we

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need to discuss the science, we
need to discuss the data.

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We need to not be afraid of that
because if it's true, Through

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the data is going to back it up.
And so I think that's the main

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thing that I have kind of Taken
on as part of my mission.

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That's part of my message and
the part of the message of the

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Joseph.
Smith Foundation is the real

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history in the real data does
support the restoration and it

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does support Joseph Smith that
yeah, you're absolutely correct.

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I just had a gentleman on want
to say three or four weeks ago,

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he's going to come back on but
he went through and he compiled

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a book of like all the
bull's-eyes.

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The things that Joseph Smith
taught that can be found in the

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Apocrypha.
Oh, cool.

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And so, it is amazing when he
starts getting into it, and we

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really didn't dive deep, right?
We just talked about him and how

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he got to, to write in the book
and what the inspiration was.

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But the amount of bull's-eyes
that are in there is are just

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incredible.
And so, when we talk about

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having intellectual
conversations, I don't think we

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should shy away from those.
Yes.

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I think, I think, if we can't
defend, That on the intellectual

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plane as well.
That's on us because we're

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lacking a little bit, which is
one of the things that I

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absolutely loved about all the
work that you guys have done

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there at the Joseph.
Smith Foundation is the fact

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that it's it while.
It's definitely Faith promoting

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its Faith promoting with a
brain, right?

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And I hate right, there's
nothing wrong with Blind Faith,

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but at some point, we have to be
able to get down to brass tacks

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and say no, this is true because
of X Y and Z, right?

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And here's the evidence because
For that.

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Hmm, so yeah II agree with you
wholeheartedly and look, I'm not

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a millennial, I have a couple
kids who are millennials and if

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there's one thing I've noticed
is that they just don't have

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time for BS, right?
And so because they were raised

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on Google, they were raised on
just getting the answer right

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now.
Right.

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Right.
My generation.

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We had to go to the library, we
had to look things up.

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If, you know, you didn't do that
because it was fun, or it was a

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quick search.
I mean, I really had to go into

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it, so, Typewriter and
everything.

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So I think I think my generation
was conditioned out of laziness

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prop.
Okay, I'm just gonna speak for

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me, definitely out of laziness
that this idea of going to

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library.
Well, I got better things to do,

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like, eat Doritos and watch
football, but right.

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But so, your generation though.
It's like we want the answers

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and we want it now and you guys
have an incredible nose for just

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BS and if that if it comes
across that way, a lot of

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Millennials tend to wash your
hands with it.

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So The work you're doing there I
think is hugely important.

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Yeah.
Did your dad ever tell you what

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his inspiration was for?
Starting this whole thing.

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Yeah so he started when he was
around. 11 or 12 years old, just

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studying the gospel, like crazy
so and he just had an impression

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one day that where he felt
impressed that he needed to

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study the gospel.
So, well, that no matter who

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spoke he wouldn't be deceived.
And so he walks out of his room

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and he went to his mom my
grandma and he said, Mom, I'm

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supposed to learn the gospel.
So while I won't be to see if

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like, where do I start?
And she went over to the shelf

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and they had the Journal of
discourses teachings of Little

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Samantha and doctrines of
salvation.

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She pulls those off and she's
like, well, you can start here.

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And so, he took it in, and he
just started, just studying a

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sin because he just had that
thirsty.

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He was like, I want to know how
things work.

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He ended up becoming a software
engineer taught high school and

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different things.
And so, we, he grew up with this

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desire, we just felt like, oh,
there's so many answers to

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questions, people have, right?
So he would see people

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struggling with their teens,
with pornography or family

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relationships or Questions about
church history and he's like the

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answers are out there.
But not, everyone has the time

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to go reinvent the wheel and go
do all of that research, right?

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This is he's doing the studying,
like you're saying before,

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Google and before, all of those
things.

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And so he so I remember growing
up and watching him at the

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computer, typing away, out
articles on the Book of Mormon

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or oh, we gotta put this
together, we got to do this and

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got to do that.
And finally, that came together

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when I was about 10 and he lost
his job.

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Because they closed down the
part of his software company and

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shipped to India.
And so he was like, okay I'm

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either going to transition to a
new company or and you just felt

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like you need to do video and
start teaching through video

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because that's even more
powerful than books which we've

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done both obviously.
But and so that really became a

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family mission where he was
like, I'm going to do this as a

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family all together and that's
what we did for our homeschool

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00:12:04,500 --> 00:12:08,100
actually, we instead of doing
endless work books and

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assignments that were just going
to Away in the trash.

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My dad was like, well, if you're
going to do a research paper,

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let's go research this out.
You want to learn how to go to

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the archives.
Let's go to the university.

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Let's go to the library and
learn how to pull out, the

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documents, learn how to do
primary source, research.

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And so that's what we did.
And now I've done seven or eight

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documentaries and five books,
and we're still going strong,

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even though he just passed away
last year, were carrying it on.

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Yeah, when I heard of his past
and I my heart went out to you,

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I know what that feels like.
So, I again, My condolences.

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Thank you so much.
Um, the Legacy he left behind

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though, not just not just the
work but but seeing his kids,

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pick up the work.
Look as a dad, it's easy,

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shouldn't say it's easy, it's
easier to do the things that

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00:12:57,600 --> 00:12:59,500
we're passionate about, right?
Absolutely.

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It's another thing to bring your
kids along to do right by his

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patience of Job.
Just calling to say that that.

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Well, that and it requires.
And I'm not the best at this

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00:13:10,100 --> 00:13:14,100
whatsoever but it requires you
being able to pass that along in

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a meaningful way.
And so the fact he was able to

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do that with with his kids is
just awesome and I think speaks

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to his character.
Well, it's honestly what

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converted us.
I can honestly say if I hadn't

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grown up being engaged in
actually doing it Hands-On, if I

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had just only been studying, I
don't think I would actually be

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here today.
I would probably be pretty wild,

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really be honest, but it was
actually being engaged seeing

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people's hearts changed and
seeing this matters and we need

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to make a difference.
And we can't sit around because,

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you know, we, when we were
growing up we would always watch

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this movie about Mother Teresa.
There's to motion pictures on

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her life, and my dad would pause
all the time all the way

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through.
And he'd be like, Okay, you can

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00:14:00,500 --> 00:14:02,800
see her giving her life to help
people and there's physical

259
00:14:02,800 --> 00:14:07,500
people dying physically right
now Starving in third world

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countries and everything that's
important.

261
00:14:09,600 --> 00:14:12,800
He's like, but there's millions
of people starving spiritually

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00:14:13,300 --> 00:14:17,900
and we've got to fix both, you
know, and that's that's part of

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what drives, I think my passion
and my siblings passion to keep

264
00:14:22,500 --> 00:14:26,100
this going is because the
restoration does have answers

265
00:14:26,700 --> 00:14:29,200
and to solve every problem we're
out there.

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I solve all of our societal
issues, and all of our political

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00:14:32,000 --> 00:14:35,200
issues with this, or that
campaign, this or that program,

268
00:14:35,300 --> 00:14:38,700
this or that latest Trend.
It doesn't work.

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00:14:38,700 --> 00:14:40,900
It does not work, but the gospel
will work.

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And that's why it's important.
Absolutely.

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00:14:44,400 --> 00:14:48,100
And, and I think we're, we're at
a stage now.

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And speaking of society, where
we can see what's happened, when

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you cut those underpinnings out
right now while the vast

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majority of the country.
And American society wasn't

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Mormon of any stripe.
There were some very common

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00:15:04,400 --> 00:15:06,900
elements that right, yes.
And those underpinnings have

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00:15:06,900 --> 00:15:10,000
been jerked out from under
society and now we're in free

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00:15:10,000 --> 00:15:12,600
fall, right?
And one of the things I've

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00:15:12,600 --> 00:15:16,800
noticed in speaking about
society and full disclosure,

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I've mentioned this on the
podcast before.

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I'm a huge nerd.
When it comes to the

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revolutionary period of America.
That stems from of all things, a

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00:15:26,200 --> 00:15:29,300
football game, me and a buddy.
I'm I'm a huge green.

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00:15:29,400 --> 00:15:31,900
A fan and he was a huge
Philadelphia Eagles fan.

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00:15:32,400 --> 00:15:34,600
And we found out they were
playing on a Monday night in

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00:15:34,600 --> 00:15:36,900
Philadelphia and we thought,
okay, we're going to wear her

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00:15:36,908 --> 00:15:39,500
book, some tickets and we're
just going to go and so we did

288
00:15:39,800 --> 00:15:42,700
and so we went and you know,
we're like let's go a couple

289
00:15:42,700 --> 00:15:45,700
days early because I want to
look at all the sides, I wanna

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00:15:45,700 --> 00:15:48,200
go see the Liberty Bell and all
these other filter.

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00:15:48,200 --> 00:15:51,400
You at this time I was in my
early 20s this was this was

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00:15:51,400 --> 00:15:54,300
probably about two thousand
three or four that just a few

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00:15:54,300 --> 00:16:01,600
years after 9/11 and So my wife
who's just an absolute rock

294
00:16:01,600 --> 00:16:03,300
star.
She's like, yeah, go go have

295
00:16:03,300 --> 00:16:05,800
fun.
She's see you later.

296
00:16:05,800 --> 00:16:08,400
So, so me and my buddy.
We jump on this flight.

297
00:16:08,400 --> 00:16:11,900
We go.
And what I wasn't prepared for

298
00:16:12,400 --> 00:16:15,500
was what happened when I walked
into Independence Hall in

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00:16:15,500 --> 00:16:20,300
Philadelphia.
It felt like in feel like it was

300
00:16:20,300 --> 00:16:23,600
Holy Ground, right?
When I walked in I still get

301
00:16:23,600 --> 00:16:25,100
Goose Bumps thinking about
today.

302
00:16:25,100 --> 00:16:27,300
Yeah, the spirit was just too
strong.

303
00:16:27,300 --> 00:16:32,900
There is it was Martin's Cove or
in Nauvoo, or on Temple Square

304
00:16:32,900 --> 00:16:35,900
or anything like that.
The spirit just said something

305
00:16:35,900 --> 00:16:38,700
important happened right here.
And this started me down the

306
00:16:38,700 --> 00:16:42,900
road of doing real Research into
the, the founders, the

307
00:16:42,900 --> 00:16:46,200
Constitutional Convention, the
original arguments, all those

308
00:16:46,200 --> 00:16:49,200
things, and I walked away from
there, from from that

309
00:16:49,200 --> 00:16:51,200
experience.
I mean, it didn't influence me

310
00:16:51,200 --> 00:16:52,900
so much.
I ended up moving the family out

311
00:16:52,900 --> 00:16:55,400
there for about three years,
just, so I could be closer to

312
00:16:55,400 --> 00:16:56,000
it.
Hmm.

313
00:16:56,900 --> 00:17:01,600
So when I'm done with my
Research, I realize we're way

314
00:17:01,700 --> 00:17:04,700
way way.
Off course we have, I don't know

315
00:17:04,700 --> 00:17:07,700
what happened, but holy cow.
So I started diving into what

316
00:17:07,700 --> 00:17:11,900
happened.
And what I noticed was is that

317
00:17:11,900 --> 00:17:15,099
there's this revisionist
history, that has happened,

318
00:17:15,599 --> 00:17:19,500
where it was a very Progressive
idea.

319
00:17:20,200 --> 00:17:26,599
And the idea was, is that if we
can teach, if we can degrade the

320
00:17:26,599 --> 00:17:31,300
founders, and Dismiss them.
Well, then we can dismiss the

321
00:17:31,300 --> 00:17:35,600
founding documents and then we
can remake this government into

322
00:17:35,600 --> 00:17:38,100
something that's closer to our
desires.

323
00:17:38,900 --> 00:17:41,500
And so, in order to do that,
they had to change the

324
00:17:41,500 --> 00:17:45,100
narrative, right?
No longer were the founders Men

325
00:17:45,100 --> 00:17:49,000
of Integrity who puts you, each
other, their lives and fortunes

326
00:17:49,000 --> 00:17:52,400
and sacred honor, now they're
rich, white slave owners, right?

327
00:17:52,400 --> 00:17:57,100
And, and in that process, you
can now degrade what it is, they

328
00:17:57,100 --> 00:18:00,800
did and you can now I move the
country where you want to go.

329
00:18:01,400 --> 00:18:05,600
That's done, that's happened.
It's over, unless, it's getting

330
00:18:05,600 --> 00:18:09,100
caught at home.
It's over my concern it and, and

331
00:18:09,100 --> 00:18:11,000
we talked about this on our
phone call.

332
00:18:11,200 --> 00:18:15,100
Was that the same tactic?
The very same tactic is now

333
00:18:15,100 --> 00:18:20,900
being employed inside Mormonism,
and I don't care if it's the LDS

334
00:18:20,900 --> 00:18:25,200
church, I don't care if it's an
organized group of Mormon

335
00:18:25,200 --> 00:18:29,100
fundamentalist, or if it's an
independent, You know, if your

336
00:18:29,100 --> 00:18:32,700
name is the Community of Christ
even like know, pretty where we

337
00:18:32,700 --> 00:18:35,800
are seeing this, right?
And we're losing our kids in

338
00:18:35,800 --> 00:18:37,300
droves.
Yes, we are.

339
00:18:37,400 --> 00:18:40,600
And we're not just kids, but
we're losing adult members in

340
00:18:40,600 --> 00:18:43,300
droves, right?
And so, that's what I wanted to

341
00:18:43,300 --> 00:18:46,600
have you on this to talk about
this rewrite of Mormon history,

342
00:18:46,600 --> 00:18:49,900
this revisionist history, and
how we got here?

343
00:18:49,900 --> 00:18:51,900
Who were the players involved,
right?

344
00:18:52,700 --> 00:18:55,800
What you're describing is so
important because our identity

345
00:18:55,800 --> 00:18:59,700
is shaped by our history, right?
To understand where where you

346
00:18:59,700 --> 00:19:02,900
come from, what you've
experienced, even what your

347
00:19:02,900 --> 00:19:05,600
people ancestors, have
experience that really shapes a

348
00:19:05,600 --> 00:19:08,700
lot of identity.
So if you even look at the Book

349
00:19:08,700 --> 00:19:11,700
of Mormon, we believe is the
most correct book, right?

350
00:19:11,700 --> 00:19:14,200
Its history.
That's what it is.

351
00:19:14,500 --> 00:19:18,100
So God, history teaches us how
God acts.

352
00:19:18,100 --> 00:19:21,600
How God works who God is his
character is all defined through

353
00:19:21,600 --> 00:19:24,000
history and our identity and how
we work with that.

354
00:19:24,400 --> 00:19:26,700
So what you're describing is
exactly right and it's actually

355
00:19:26,700 --> 00:19:29,700
even before the founding fathers
If you go back to the very

356
00:19:29,700 --> 00:19:32,500
founding colonists, the pilgrims
and the Puritans, right?

357
00:19:33,000 --> 00:19:37,400
If you go back, 150, 200 years
and read the textbooks on them,

358
00:19:37,800 --> 00:19:39,300
they were amazing.
They were the heroes.

359
00:19:39,300 --> 00:19:42,300
They were even read first Nephi,
right?

360
00:19:42,300 --> 00:19:45,300
You guys like these are Choice
sayings of God their humble

361
00:19:45,300 --> 00:19:47,900
followers.
He, he paints some, like, their

362
00:19:47,900 --> 00:19:50,200
Heroes, right?
Well, how did we get to today?

363
00:19:50,200 --> 00:19:55,100
Where no one even knows.
That they anything about them.

364
00:19:55,400 --> 00:19:57,500
You you go.
And this is what we the very

365
00:19:57,500 --> 00:19:59,000
first documentary did
technically.

366
00:19:59,000 --> 00:20:01,400
It's the second, but the first
one we that's really out there.

367
00:20:01,400 --> 00:20:05,900
Still Ford a coven on the land.
We went to BYU and we went to

368
00:20:05,908 --> 00:20:08,500
the sidewalk and we interviewed
students and we asked them, what

369
00:20:08,500 --> 00:20:10,200
do you know about the first
Thanksgiving?

370
00:20:10,200 --> 00:20:11,300
What do you know about the
pilgrims?

371
00:20:11,300 --> 00:20:12,400
What do you know about the
Puritans?

372
00:20:12,400 --> 00:20:15,800
What's the difference between
the two are best youth?

373
00:20:15,800 --> 00:20:18,600
Don't know the answers to those
basic questions and it's a

374
00:20:18,600 --> 00:20:22,700
strategy that this is every
Communist Regime every socialist

375
00:20:22,700 --> 00:20:24,700
regime, Go into a country and
that's what they do.

376
00:20:24,700 --> 00:20:26,300
What did Mal do when he went
into China?

377
00:20:26,400 --> 00:20:29,300
That destroy the Museum's, they
destroy the history books

378
00:20:29,500 --> 00:20:31,900
because it wipes out of people's
identity.

379
00:20:32,000 --> 00:20:35,700
So now they can be given a new
identity usually for the worst.

380
00:20:35,800 --> 00:20:38,300
So, right.
Yeah, absolutely.

381
00:20:38,300 --> 00:20:41,700
It's funny, you should bring up
the, the, the pilgrims and the

382
00:20:41,700 --> 00:20:46,200
Puritans one of my favorite
speeches to read is by John

383
00:20:46,200 --> 00:20:49,800
Winthrop.
Well, he's coming across and he

384
00:20:49,800 --> 00:20:51,900
puts his people under Covenant.
Yes.

385
00:20:51,900 --> 00:20:55,000
Where he talks about we Need to
embrace each other and familiar

386
00:20:55,000 --> 00:20:58,900
Commerce, making each other's
plights, our own working

387
00:20:58,900 --> 00:21:03,000
together and morning together.
And if you take that speech

388
00:21:03,500 --> 00:21:07,200
which was not available Joseph
Smith at that time and then you

389
00:21:07,200 --> 00:21:15,600
go read, what we have is that
Covenant, it's the same

390
00:21:15,600 --> 00:21:18,900
language, they talk the same and
the founders understood.

391
00:21:18,900 --> 00:21:22,000
This, our first national seal
was supposed to be Moses and the

392
00:21:22,008 --> 00:21:24,800
children of Israel.
Following the pillar of fire,

393
00:21:24,900 --> 00:21:27,700
right?
Everybody who came over here

394
00:21:27,700 --> 00:21:31,900
understood that this is a
continuation, right?

395
00:21:32,200 --> 00:21:36,900
Of the Israel strikes, right?
I've God's chosen people.

396
00:21:36,900 --> 00:21:39,800
Right then, how did that happen?
So, I want to just mention this

397
00:21:39,800 --> 00:21:41,600
just just because you're
bringing it up here and I think

398
00:21:41,600 --> 00:21:45,800
it's so fascinating.
So the strategy is always you

399
00:21:45,800 --> 00:21:49,500
first denigrate and then you and
then that and then that leads to

400
00:21:49,500 --> 00:21:51,700
undermine, right?
So people will rely quite well,

401
00:21:51,700 --> 00:21:53,000
why would I live?
Listen to it?

402
00:21:53,100 --> 00:21:56,200
Bumbling buffoon, right.
So denigrate, George Washington

403
00:21:56,200 --> 00:21:58,400
denigrate, the founders, we're
going to go into this denigrate

404
00:21:58,400 --> 00:22:00,900
Joseph Smith and it's like well
why would I care what he says?

405
00:22:01,100 --> 00:22:05,100
So then that leads to ignoring
which then leads to where

406
00:22:05,200 --> 00:22:07,600
they're completely forgotten and
we are, we've seen that we

407
00:22:07,600 --> 00:22:12,400
pretty much completed that cycle
when it comes to the, the

408
00:22:12,408 --> 00:22:14,300
founding fathers, meaning the
colonists.

409
00:22:14,600 --> 00:22:18,700
And then were almost completed
on that, on the founding fathers

410
00:22:19,000 --> 00:22:21,900
in political founding fathers,
and we're heading that

411
00:22:21,900 --> 00:22:24,300
direction.
With the founding fathers of the

412
00:22:24,300 --> 00:22:28,000
restoration and so I just want
to use an example just on the

413
00:22:28,008 --> 00:22:31,400
pilgrims and Puritans and then
we can probably move into the

414
00:22:31,400 --> 00:22:34,500
restoration but how did that
happen?

415
00:22:34,700 --> 00:22:36,600
How did we get to the point?
Most people don't know the

416
00:22:36,600 --> 00:22:39,500
history.
Well a big key player was

417
00:22:39,500 --> 00:22:42,200
Nathaniel Hawthorne now anyone
that's gone high schools

418
00:22:42,200 --> 00:22:44,100
probably like oh well The
Scarlet Letter, I loved that

419
00:22:44,100 --> 00:22:46,300
book or which one of the
classics, right.

420
00:22:46,300 --> 00:22:49,300
So I grew up in a different home
school communities and they're

421
00:22:49,300 --> 00:22:52,000
like, well if you're educated
like you read The Scarlet Letter

422
00:22:52,000 --> 00:22:54,800
and that's such a good book.
So I Actually taught it in a

423
00:22:54,800 --> 00:22:59,100
literature High School class.
Okay, not only is the book bogus

424
00:22:59,100 --> 00:23:03,200
history but if you actually go
into who wrote The Scarlet,

425
00:23:03,200 --> 00:23:06,100
Letter Nathaniel Hawthorne and
his history, he literally wrote

426
00:23:06,100 --> 00:23:10,400
it with an agenda to destroy any
respect for the Puritan.

427
00:23:10,400 --> 00:23:13,400
Forefathers, he himself was a
descendant of Puritans and he

428
00:23:13,408 --> 00:23:16,300
wanted to distance himself, he
change the spelling of his name

429
00:23:16,500 --> 00:23:19,100
so that he could just cut that
connection with them.

430
00:23:19,400 --> 00:23:23,000
And he was, he had involvement
in connection to the occult.

431
00:23:23,200 --> 00:23:27,900
He mocked Christian Living, his
family had his wife and daughter

432
00:23:27,900 --> 00:23:32,700
had connections with mediums and
so he goes and he writes The

433
00:23:32,700 --> 00:23:34,500
Scarlet Letter.
He writes these other books

434
00:23:34,500 --> 00:23:37,900
House of Seven Gables all these
books because he wanted to

435
00:23:37,900 --> 00:23:41,200
reshape the way we think.
And he took the adversary was

436
00:23:41,200 --> 00:23:44,600
smart, he took us out because he
changed the history.

437
00:23:44,700 --> 00:23:48,500
And now today, no one even knows
who they are, which is a tragedy

438
00:23:48,500 --> 00:23:51,300
because they're the ones that
founded when the greatest

439
00:23:51,300 --> 00:23:54,400
civilizations that did succeed.
Said that no Nephi said was

440
00:23:54,400 --> 00:23:56,600
blessed because they were
righteous.

441
00:23:57,000 --> 00:23:58,800
And now we're falling apart.
So when everyone's like, what do

442
00:23:58,800 --> 00:24:00,000
we do with the country?
What are we?

443
00:24:00,200 --> 00:24:02,400
Let's try this policy.
Let's try this politics.

444
00:24:02,400 --> 00:24:07,500
It's guys, we tirely eroded our
foundation, until we go back to

445
00:24:07,500 --> 00:24:09,200
the foundation.
We can't move forward.

446
00:24:09,200 --> 00:24:13,000
Absolutely, absolutely.
So often we tend to look forward

447
00:24:13,100 --> 00:24:16,400
for Solutions, right?
But there's times when we need

448
00:24:16,400 --> 00:24:19,800
to stop and look back and say
there was our starting point.

449
00:24:19,800 --> 00:24:23,000
Why are we way over here, right?
Yeah, I'm a land surveyor.

450
00:24:23,100 --> 00:24:26,800
A profession.
So, you know, five hundreds of a

451
00:24:26,800 --> 00:24:30,800
foot isn't very much inside of a
foot, but if you carry that out

452
00:24:30,800 --> 00:24:35,600
of Mi, all of a sudden, you have
a big gap from your original

453
00:24:35,600 --> 00:24:38,100
course heading, right?
And that's where we're at.

454
00:24:38,200 --> 00:24:40,700
We don't have our true north
anymore.

455
00:24:40,700 --> 00:24:43,400
We don't know where we're at and
we're way off course.

456
00:24:43,400 --> 00:24:45,100
Yes.
And the only way for us now to

457
00:24:45,100 --> 00:24:49,800
get back, on course, I feel is
to go back and to look at the

458
00:24:49,800 --> 00:24:52,600
starting point and then
course-correct from there.

459
00:24:53,200 --> 00:24:57,300
And interestingly, it's this is
the same pattern that the

460
00:24:57,300 --> 00:24:59,000
Nephites took in the Book of
Mormon.

461
00:24:59,100 --> 00:25:01,600
So, a lot of times I don't hear
people pull out this first, but

462
00:25:01,600 --> 00:25:05,900
in Helaman, want to pull the,
it's in healing and five, you

463
00:25:05,900 --> 00:25:09,200
have Nephi, I believe, it's the
son of healing.

464
00:25:09,200 --> 00:25:11,000
And I want to say, I could be
wrong.

465
00:25:11,000 --> 00:25:14,100
Could be Nephi this underneath
my butt there, at the end of The

466
00:25:14,100 --> 00:25:18,500
Book of Mormon and he gives this
big lament and he says oh that I

467
00:25:18,500 --> 00:25:21,400
would lived in the days of my
forefathers I wish I lived in

468
00:25:21,400 --> 00:25:24,100
the days of me finally High when
people were Just when people

469
00:25:24,100 --> 00:25:26,600
were good, he's like, I just
want to go back there.

470
00:25:27,000 --> 00:25:31,300
Why did Mormon put that in?
Because he knew we face, right?

471
00:25:31,400 --> 00:25:34,900
Those same that same sentiment
now because he's saying, if

472
00:25:34,900 --> 00:25:38,000
you're wise, you will say,
though, that I lived in the days

473
00:25:38,000 --> 00:25:41,200
of the pilgrims, when people
actually cared about the

474
00:25:41,200 --> 00:25:43,100
scriptures, oh, that I lived in
the days of the founding

475
00:25:43,100 --> 00:25:46,300
fathers, when they respected,
and feared God all that.

476
00:25:46,300 --> 00:25:49,800
I lived in the days of Joseph
Smith, when we built a

477
00:25:49,808 --> 00:25:53,700
foundation that was solid and
that is I found a toy.

478
00:25:54,100 --> 00:25:57,600
It's only way to solve these
problems, but the problem is you

479
00:25:57,608 --> 00:26:00,300
can't even have that
conversation with people to sit

480
00:26:00,300 --> 00:26:02,600
down and be like, okay well
let's study what Joseph Smith

481
00:26:02,600 --> 00:26:05,000
said and live it because they
like, well, why would I listen

482
00:26:05,000 --> 00:26:07,700
to Joseph Smith?
He was Treasurer digger, he was

483
00:26:07,700 --> 00:26:10,200
involved in Magic.
He was basically a product of

484
00:26:10,200 --> 00:26:11,900
his time who was an idiot.
He didn't know what he was

485
00:26:11,900 --> 00:26:15,300
talking about, and that's coming
from revisionist history.

486
00:26:15,400 --> 00:26:18,000
So the same revisionist history
tactic that we've seen with the

487
00:26:18,000 --> 00:26:22,100
founding of America that we've
seen with the founding fathers.

488
00:26:22,300 --> 00:26:25,600
We're we Have going on right now
in the church.

489
00:26:26,500 --> 00:26:31,800
Excuse me real quick.
Well let's let's start here with

490
00:26:31,800 --> 00:26:35,100
talking about revisionist
history within the church where

491
00:26:35,100 --> 00:26:37,800
do we start to see it and what
point does it happen?

492
00:26:37,800 --> 00:26:40,800
Does it happen right after?
Brigham Young settles in Utah,

493
00:26:40,800 --> 00:26:43,400
does it happen?
You know in the in the early

494
00:26:43,400 --> 00:26:45,400
20th century?
Where does it start?

495
00:26:46,200 --> 00:26:49,100
Okay, well you could say all the
way back in Joseph Smith's day.

496
00:26:49,600 --> 00:26:54,200
This is honestly, this is always
the dock deck.

497
00:26:55,100 --> 00:26:59,900
So we let me, let me start here.
So lightly some groundwork.

498
00:26:59,900 --> 00:27:02,500
So we wrote this book called
Seer Stone, be remnants on a

499
00:27:02,500 --> 00:27:04,000
book, Mormon translation on
trial.

500
00:27:04,300 --> 00:27:07,800
And in that book, we go into all
of the accounts that people

501
00:27:07,800 --> 00:27:10,600
claim support the idea that
Joseph Smith, translate The Book

502
00:27:10,600 --> 00:27:15,300
of Mormon using a Seer Stone in
a hat and it's not historically

503
00:27:15,300 --> 00:27:16,900
viable.
I'll have this debate with

504
00:27:16,900 --> 00:27:19,600
anyone.
There are no credible sources

505
00:27:20,100 --> 00:27:22,500
that support the idea that
Joseph Smith used a Seer Stone.

506
00:27:22,500 --> 00:27:25,600
He used the urim and thummim
which is not one dark stone.

507
00:27:25,600 --> 00:27:29,300
It's too transparent stones in
the room above 0, the whole

508
00:27:29,300 --> 00:27:33,000
description given by Joseph
Smith and it.

509
00:27:33,000 --> 00:27:35,000
But we go through all that and
some people sometimes people are

510
00:27:35,000 --> 00:27:36,500
like but the witnesses.
And so okay.

511
00:27:36,500 --> 00:27:38,400
Let's go into those.
Let's go into Walmart David

512
00:27:38,400 --> 00:27:40,600
Whitmer.
Let's go into Martin Harris when

513
00:27:40,600 --> 00:27:45,300
we went into the history with
David, Whitmer, I'm not

514
00:27:45,300 --> 00:27:47,100
inherently.
Yes and Emma.

515
00:27:47,100 --> 00:27:50,300
It's fascinating that shortly.
After Joseph Smith died.

516
00:27:50,300 --> 00:27:54,100
There was literally a movement
where there were people who

517
00:27:54,100 --> 00:27:57,600
apostatize and who hated Joseph
Smith who believed they were

518
00:27:57,600 --> 00:28:01,900
getting Revelations from God.
Quote unquote, right?

519
00:28:01,900 --> 00:28:06,100
Right there.
God telling them to rewrite the

520
00:28:06,100 --> 00:28:10,100
history to write a new history
to reveal the man of sin.

521
00:28:10,100 --> 00:28:13,900
Joseph Smith was this man of sin
and part of that was the Seer

522
00:28:13,900 --> 00:28:15,900
Stone narrative.
Anyways, that's a whole nother.

523
00:28:16,000 --> 00:28:17,600
A conversation.
I mean, we can sit here and have

524
00:28:17,600 --> 00:28:21,600
a whole hour conversation, but
it's been an agenda throughout

525
00:28:21,600 --> 00:28:23,800
history, where we just change
the history.

526
00:28:23,800 --> 00:28:25,500
That's frankly.
What David Whitmer did when

527
00:28:25,500 --> 00:28:28,900
everyone quotes the most famous
quote, that they go to you.

528
00:28:28,900 --> 00:28:31,500
For Joe David.
Whitmer saying, oh, he said, he

529
00:28:31,500 --> 00:28:33,500
keep this description of the
translation of the Book of

530
00:28:33,500 --> 00:28:36,100
Mormon and it supports the
serious tone hypothesis.

531
00:28:36,100 --> 00:28:39,200
Then people don't look at the
footnote.

532
00:28:39,400 --> 00:28:43,000
The foot now is an anti-mormon
publication called, and

533
00:28:43,000 --> 00:28:44,400
addressed, all the Believers in
Christ.

534
00:28:44,400 --> 00:28:45,800
And if you go read the whole
thing, it is.

535
00:28:46,000 --> 00:28:48,500
Is literally a revisionist
history from David whitmer's

536
00:28:48,500 --> 00:28:51,600
perspective?
That's designed same strategy.

537
00:28:51,600 --> 00:28:54,400
First denigrate Joseph Smith
that leads to undermining him

538
00:28:54,600 --> 00:28:57,800
and then ignoring moving on to a
new church.

539
00:28:58,000 --> 00:29:02,000
Absolutely.
So we see it at the very

540
00:29:02,000 --> 00:29:07,000
beginning, right?
You would think that in Brigham

541
00:29:07,000 --> 00:29:10,800
picking up, right moving the
Saints out, west outside of the

542
00:29:10,808 --> 00:29:12,400
United States.
Let's not forget that.

543
00:29:12,400 --> 00:29:16,500
I think everyone forgets ride a
desert that he's leaving the

544
00:29:16,500 --> 00:29:18,300
country.
He's like we're done.

545
00:29:18,300 --> 00:29:21,100
We're out of here.
You would have thought in this

546
00:29:21,200 --> 00:29:25,000
Great Basin Kingdom, so to speak
that they would have been safe

547
00:29:25,000 --> 00:29:27,400
here from that but that's not
the case.

548
00:29:27,400 --> 00:29:31,400
At what point during Brigham
during the tenure of Brigham

549
00:29:31,400 --> 00:29:33,500
Young her after.
Do we start seeing the

550
00:29:33,500 --> 00:29:35,800
revisionist history?
Creep in again, let me I say

551
00:29:35,800 --> 00:29:38,400
it's almost almost immediately.
I mean if you go read Revealed

552
00:29:38,400 --> 00:29:44,500
educational principles almost
immediately, you had you had

553
00:29:44,500 --> 00:29:48,700
individuals who were frankly,
very antagonistic to the church

554
00:29:48,700 --> 00:29:51,100
coming and they use the
education system, which is

555
00:29:51,100 --> 00:29:52,900
brilliant, right?
So they come out here and what

556
00:29:52,900 --> 00:29:54,900
do they do?
They set up newspapers and they

557
00:29:54,900 --> 00:29:58,000
set up schools, preschools.
You don't need to pay for your

558
00:29:58,000 --> 00:30:01,300
own schools, you know, parents
like white folks, so hard will

559
00:30:01,300 --> 00:30:04,300
set you up a free school.
Just bring your kids in here and

560
00:30:04,400 --> 00:30:07,100
Will train you and many of them
had agendas.

561
00:30:08,200 --> 00:30:12,700
But so that's a whole nother
conversation but it's really

562
00:30:12,700 --> 00:30:18,500
always been on the strategy but
I think we really see it picking

563
00:30:18,500 --> 00:30:24,900
up from my perspective and
beginning in the 1900s the same

564
00:30:24,900 --> 00:30:28,900
time that we have see a culture
shift in America really picking

565
00:30:28,900 --> 00:30:30,500
up.
So the same time you start

566
00:30:30,500 --> 00:30:34,800
seeing a departure from
Christian Moorings in He's in

567
00:30:34,800 --> 00:30:38,700
economics in even the Industrial
Revolution moving people away

568
00:30:38,700 --> 00:30:42,500
from an agricultural agrarian
lifestyle, you see the

569
00:30:42,500 --> 00:30:45,700
introduction of rock music.
You can see changes in dating

570
00:30:45,800 --> 00:30:50,100
and culture patterns and
standards at that same time.

571
00:30:51,000 --> 00:30:55,900
You have Well, okay, so step
back, just a bit.

572
00:30:55,900 --> 00:30:59,300
So Joseph Smith said that when
God says sets up his kingdom,

573
00:30:59,300 --> 00:31:01,200
the devil sets up his hmm,
right?

574
00:31:01,200 --> 00:31:03,700
So, there always is a parallel,
there's always a counterfeit and

575
00:31:03,700 --> 00:31:07,000
they just grew up side by side
Wheaten Terriers right over here

576
00:31:07,700 --> 00:31:10,100
and so it's fascinating.
If you go study, okay, and

577
00:31:10,100 --> 00:31:14,600
Joseph Smith is alive. 1830 is
when Charles Lyell publishes,

578
00:31:14,600 --> 00:31:18,300
his principles of geology, which
is really the Forerunner to

579
00:31:18,700 --> 00:31:20,400
laying down.
A lot of the principles that

580
00:31:20,400 --> 00:31:23,000
would contribute to darwinian
evolution.

581
00:31:23,400 --> 00:31:28,000
And then you've got Charles
Darwin publishing in the Origin

582
00:31:28,000 --> 00:31:32,500
of Species in the mid-1800s.
You've got Karl Marx publishing,

583
00:31:32,500 --> 00:31:34,700
his books are they all are
developing this their

584
00:31:34,700 --> 00:31:36,900
ideologies.
The same time.

585
00:31:37,100 --> 00:31:40,200
Joseph Smith comes about.
So Joseph Smith says, well, this

586
00:31:40,200 --> 00:31:42,400
is the kingdom of God.
They're like oh, this is a

587
00:31:42,400 --> 00:31:47,500
different game, right?
President Benson is the one who

588
00:31:47,600 --> 00:31:50,700
pointed out the five Antichrist
that people quote a lot were

589
00:31:50,900 --> 00:31:54,400
hewn, which is, I mean, That
sounds strong to say their

590
00:31:54,400 --> 00:31:57,800
Antichrist but really they are
their philosophies you go.

591
00:31:57,800 --> 00:32:01,600
Sit Sigmund, Freud Charles
Darwin, John Maynard Keynes Karl

592
00:32:01,600 --> 00:32:05,300
Marx and a John Dewey, the
father of public education.

593
00:32:06,400 --> 00:32:10,700
So what happens is, you have all
these universities around the

594
00:32:10,700 --> 00:32:13,100
country, the United States that
are embracing these ideas,

595
00:32:13,100 --> 00:32:16,800
they're embracing these
Progressive ideologies, and you

596
00:32:16,800 --> 00:32:19,800
have the Latter Day Saints, and
they're struggling out here, and

597
00:32:19,800 --> 00:32:22,500
they just want their kids to be
school educated, right?

598
00:32:22,600 --> 00:32:25,600
They want Kids to have the
chances and the success, and the

599
00:32:25,608 --> 00:32:28,500
knowledge, which isn't in itself
bad, right?

600
00:32:28,500 --> 00:32:30,500
We believe in being a cultured
people.

601
00:32:30,500 --> 00:32:35,800
We believe in being educated.
We believe in not just blind

602
00:32:35,800 --> 00:32:38,400
faith, we believe in, we want,
we want to build something

603
00:32:38,400 --> 00:32:42,700
better, but a lot of parents
were like, well, we can't do

604
00:32:42,700 --> 00:32:44,900
that ourselves.
You know, the early presence of

605
00:32:44,900 --> 00:32:46,400
the church were like, do your
own schools?

606
00:32:46,400 --> 00:32:50,400
Do not send your children to a
school without the Bible and not

607
00:32:50,400 --> 00:32:52,100
just the Bible, but the Book of
Mormon, the doctor covenants,

608
00:32:52,100 --> 00:32:54,400
John Taylor was so, Wrong.
He was like, we will never have

609
00:32:54,400 --> 00:32:56,900
a day without the Book of Mormon
the Doctrine and Covenants,

610
00:32:56,900 --> 00:32:59,500
right?
You know, I just read something

611
00:32:59,500 --> 00:33:02,000
out of the Journal of discourses
where, and I can't remember if

612
00:33:02,000 --> 00:33:07,400
it was Taylor or young, but he
had said, why do we want to

613
00:33:07,400 --> 00:33:10,500
import Babylonian schools into
the mazaya?

614
00:33:10,600 --> 00:33:12,800
Right?
Why would we want to do that?

615
00:33:12,800 --> 00:33:18,700
And he was pushing hard to, to
not let this happen, right?

616
00:33:19,000 --> 00:33:22,900
They understood right and in
their day, being inspired,

617
00:33:23,100 --> 00:33:27,000
Understood what would come well?
Actually, this is the

618
00:33:27,000 --> 00:33:29,800
fascinating thing.
This is the foundations of BYU,

619
00:33:31,000 --> 00:33:34,400
which ironically today is
probably one of the most

620
00:33:34,600 --> 00:33:37,000
prominent proponents of
darwinian evolution.

621
00:33:37,000 --> 00:33:39,300
Well, when it was founded,
Brigham Young.

622
00:33:39,300 --> 00:33:40,700
And we have this quote on our
website.

623
00:33:40,800 --> 00:33:45,600
He says, I'm endowing the school
to do what to fight Darwinism.

624
00:33:45,600 --> 00:33:46,800
Yep.
And Marxism.

625
00:33:47,700 --> 00:33:52,400
So that's the foundation, right?
So the foundation is this

626
00:33:52,400 --> 00:33:55,000
restoration Vision of we're
going to build schools that to

627
00:33:55,000 --> 00:33:59,100
train the Youth of Zion to be
able to articulate, Leanne,

628
00:33:59,100 --> 00:34:04,100
educate, educate, you know, with
skill and Poise be able to

629
00:34:04,100 --> 00:34:09,199
refute false Doctrine, and false
ideologies, but it's hard.

630
00:34:09,600 --> 00:34:11,699
And I mean, that's a whole
nother conversation why the

631
00:34:11,699 --> 00:34:14,900
Academy's failed?
Why that didn't succeed, but it

632
00:34:14,900 --> 00:34:19,000
didn't and people started
sending off their kids to

633
00:34:19,000 --> 00:34:22,400
Harvard into Yale, which by then
had departed.

634
00:34:22,400 --> 00:34:25,100
I mean, See universities
themselves were founded by

635
00:34:25,100 --> 00:34:28,199
Puritans they were they were
colleges where you were supposed

636
00:34:28,199 --> 00:34:31,199
to go to become, either a lawyer
doctor or a minister right was

637
00:34:31,199 --> 00:34:35,699
the three, right?
And so, the but they had moved

638
00:34:35,699 --> 00:34:37,900
away from their Christian
Moorings and now they're

639
00:34:37,900 --> 00:34:39,900
embracing Progressive ideology,
so their sin.

640
00:34:40,199 --> 00:34:43,199
So basically, these Latter-Day
Saint parents are sending their

641
00:34:43,199 --> 00:34:47,300
kids off to school.
And, and, and that's where we

642
00:34:47,300 --> 00:34:50,600
really see the development of
new Mormon history.

643
00:34:50,600 --> 00:34:53,900
So, that's the kind of the term.
It's used, and we talked about

644
00:34:53,900 --> 00:34:57,400
this in the faith crisis books.
How did, how did, how do we get

645
00:34:57,400 --> 00:34:59,600
to the point from a Joseph
Smith?

646
00:34:59,600 --> 00:35:04,100
That's, that's hero to rough
Stone Rolling today.

647
00:35:04,200 --> 00:35:07,200
So for those that don't know.
Rough Stone Rolling is

648
00:35:07,400 --> 00:35:12,300
considered, it's considered a
one of the top biographies on

649
00:35:12,300 --> 00:35:16,100
Joseph Smith and it's written by
a member of the Church of Jesus

650
00:35:16,100 --> 00:35:20,600
Christ of Latter-day Saints.
But It is one of the number one

651
00:35:20,600 --> 00:35:25,000
things causing people to lose
their faith in Joseph Smith and

652
00:35:25,000 --> 00:35:28,400
in the gospel and it's through
the history and it's through and

653
00:35:28,400 --> 00:35:30,600
a lot of people are like, well,
we need except the facts.

654
00:35:30,600 --> 00:35:32,300
Like we want to know the good,
the bad, the ugly.

655
00:35:32,300 --> 00:35:34,000
The problem is it's not real
history.

656
00:35:35,200 --> 00:35:38,900
Yeah.
And if I'm not mistaken, one of

657
00:35:38,900 --> 00:35:43,900
the books that is touted most
frequently by John Dillon, is

658
00:35:43,900 --> 00:35:45,300
rough Stone Rolling.
Yep.

659
00:35:45,300 --> 00:35:47,600
Right.
And there was actually a video

660
00:35:47,600 --> 00:35:48,600
here.
Not too long.

661
00:35:48,900 --> 00:35:53,700
Richard Bushman himself saying
he we have to retell our

662
00:35:53,700 --> 00:35:54,600
history.
Yes.

663
00:35:54,700 --> 00:35:58,100
He he came right out and just
said it, right?

664
00:35:58,200 --> 00:36:01,800
Which now you enter into a spook
your face because now the masks

665
00:36:01,800 --> 00:36:04,900
are kind of coming off, right?
They're not pretending anymore.

666
00:36:05,200 --> 00:36:07,700
Now it's know.
We need to change our history.

667
00:36:07,700 --> 00:36:11,200
Oh, they're very proud of it.
It's very, you know, but a lot

668
00:36:11,200 --> 00:36:12,800
of people don't know how we got
here.

669
00:36:13,200 --> 00:36:15,400
And that is what we set out to
figure out.

670
00:36:15,400 --> 00:36:18,600
So we had what, the Joseph Smith
Foundation, we had been

671
00:36:18,700 --> 00:36:21,400
Countering rough Stone Rolling,
we'd been going into the history

672
00:36:21,400 --> 00:36:22,900
history.
And being like, okay, guys, this

673
00:36:22,900 --> 00:36:25,900
is why the Seer Stone narrative.
And then true, this is why

674
00:36:26,100 --> 00:36:27,900
Joseph Smith was not a treasure
to her.

675
00:36:27,900 --> 00:36:30,100
This is why the whole magical
world you.

676
00:36:30,100 --> 00:36:32,700
This idea that Joseph Smith and
his family or were involved in

677
00:36:32,700 --> 00:36:36,400
the occult and rituals and poke
magic is just bogus.

678
00:36:37,400 --> 00:36:40,000
So we were going into that but
we were like we're how did this

679
00:36:40,000 --> 00:36:41,600
happen?
How did we get here?

680
00:36:41,700 --> 00:36:45,400
Right?
And and it all went back in our

681
00:36:45,400 --> 00:36:50,600
research to a man named Leonard
Arrington and Is, that's the

682
00:36:50,600 --> 00:36:54,600
main theme of the faith crisis
books and so, it's two volumes.

683
00:36:54,600 --> 00:36:58,000
The first one is Faith crisis.
We were not betrayed because

684
00:36:58,000 --> 00:36:59,900
that is the big issue.
We'll talk about that in a

685
00:36:59,900 --> 00:37:01,500
second.
But that's, that's, that's why

686
00:37:01,500 --> 00:37:04,200
people are struggling.
It's not even so much about.

687
00:37:04,200 --> 00:37:07,200
Oh, this church, history issue,
or this like people debate is it

688
00:37:07,200 --> 00:37:10,600
polygamy isn't the book of
Abraham, is actually not really

689
00:37:10,600 --> 00:37:14,200
any of those things.
It's, it's what they call a

690
00:37:14,200 --> 00:37:18,300
chest Gap where people are
saying, okay, I grew up with one

691
00:37:18,300 --> 00:37:21,300
narrative - and now I'm being
told, oh, actually, that's

692
00:37:21,300 --> 00:37:24,400
whitewashed nonsense.
It's not even true.

693
00:37:24,900 --> 00:37:27,600
Here's the real uncomfortable
truth and people are feeling

694
00:37:27,600 --> 00:37:29,700
betrayed and they're feeling
like, why didn't I ever hear

695
00:37:29,700 --> 00:37:31,600
this in Sunday school?
Why didn't I was?

696
00:37:31,600 --> 00:37:36,700
And I ever told this and so we
were going into this okay, what

697
00:37:36,700 --> 00:37:40,000
happened?
So just to kind of like just

698
00:37:40,000 --> 00:37:42,100
give some highlights of that
story because obviously that's a

699
00:37:42,107 --> 00:37:43,900
huge story about Leonard
Arrington.

700
00:37:44,400 --> 00:37:49,600
He was one of these kids who
grew up In a Latter-Day Saint

701
00:37:49,600 --> 00:37:53,000
family and he goes off to
college, and in college.

702
00:37:53,000 --> 00:37:56,700
He has a faith crisis and he
gets introduced to darwinian

703
00:37:56,700 --> 00:37:59,900
Evolution and everything,
actually by The Institute

704
00:37:59,900 --> 00:38:03,900
faculty and people who were
members of the church, but we're

705
00:38:03,900 --> 00:38:06,800
kind of under this guise of they
wanted to change the direction

706
00:38:06,800 --> 00:38:09,500
of the church.
And and so they sit down and

707
00:38:09,500 --> 00:38:11,900
they're like, well, we can we
can talk about this like we can,

708
00:38:11,900 --> 00:38:16,500
you know, let's let's reconcile.
You know, science in your faith

709
00:38:16,500 --> 00:38:20,400
and and And so Leonard, Leonard
Arrington.

710
00:38:20,400 --> 00:38:23,000
Basically, he goes to a faith
crisis the first year after

711
00:38:23,000 --> 00:38:27,700
college, he writes, or after his
first year of college, he writes

712
00:38:27,700 --> 00:38:30,800
a paper called, I believe it was
called the to arrington's, and

713
00:38:30,800 --> 00:38:34,700
he talks about, I'm a different
person and I don't believe what

714
00:38:34,700 --> 00:38:39,400
I grew up with, and he, which
really it started before a

715
00:38:39,400 --> 00:38:41,800
little bit.
I mean, he had only read the

716
00:38:41,800 --> 00:38:44,500
Bible, he read the Bible in the
Book of Mormon, once when he was

717
00:38:44,500 --> 00:38:47,900
13 and he never read it through
again the rest of his life,

718
00:38:47,908 --> 00:38:50,300
which is Pretty shocking.
When you consider that, he

719
00:38:50,300 --> 00:38:52,500
actually ended up becoming the
church historian.

720
00:38:52,500 --> 00:38:54,500
And that's that's the story that
we go into.

721
00:38:54,700 --> 00:38:58,800
But he was a church historian
for a number of years writing

722
00:38:58,800 --> 00:39:03,900
our history and not really any
interest in the scriptures or

723
00:39:03,908 --> 00:39:10,100
the doctrine, or the traditional
foundations, and his dad offered

724
00:39:10,100 --> 00:39:12,500
to pay for his mission.
During the Great Depression

725
00:39:12,500 --> 00:39:14,200
said, go on a mission.
Wow.

726
00:39:14,400 --> 00:39:18,300
And which was a huge sacrifice
family and he said no.

727
00:39:18,600 --> 00:39:22,000
He said I'm going to college.
So already he's coming from a

728
00:39:22,008 --> 00:39:26,100
different worldview, right?
Then someone maybe like a Joseph

729
00:39:26,100 --> 00:39:29,800
Fielding Smith, who he gets
married and then he goes on a

730
00:39:29,808 --> 00:39:32,200
mission which was customary in
those days.

731
00:39:32,200 --> 00:39:35,600
Yep.
But he leaves his bride behind.

732
00:39:35,600 --> 00:39:38,000
He goes on a mission, doesn't
convert a single person in

733
00:39:38,000 --> 00:39:39,500
England.
He's cheered and mocked the

734
00:39:39,500 --> 00:39:42,400
whole time, but he's like, I'm
here because the Lord wants me

735
00:39:42,400 --> 00:39:45,200
to, he comes home.
He turns down a very lucrative

736
00:39:45,200 --> 00:39:48,200
job because it would put him in
the company of people.

737
00:39:48,200 --> 00:39:50,500
He didn't.
Really associate with and he

738
00:39:50,500 --> 00:39:54,200
basically devotes the rest of
his life to trying to share the

739
00:39:54,200 --> 00:39:57,000
gospel, you know.
So he was the kid that would

740
00:39:57,000 --> 00:40:00,700
sneak off at 8 years old from a
ballgame to go read the book of

741
00:40:00,707 --> 00:40:03,500
Mormon in The Hayloft, you know.
So it is a very different kind

742
00:40:03,500 --> 00:40:07,300
of perspective.
So coming back to a Leonard

743
00:40:07,300 --> 00:40:10,900
Arrington so Leonard Arrington,
he's already kind of adopting

744
00:40:10,900 --> 00:40:14,500
these Progressive ideas again
coming from the universities and

745
00:40:14,500 --> 00:40:17,400
he starts falling into different
camps of friends.

746
00:40:17,700 --> 00:40:20,200
There was one group Particular
that called themselves, The

747
00:40:20,200 --> 00:40:23,400
Sweat, the swearing Elders, in
Salt Lake City.

748
00:40:23,800 --> 00:40:27,700
We have some funny stories from
that group in our book but they,

749
00:40:27,700 --> 00:40:31,400
they hailed from BYU faculty
University of Utah.

750
00:40:31,400 --> 00:40:34,400
Faculty just these different
people that really would get

751
00:40:34,400 --> 00:40:37,000
together.
They were open about it just to

752
00:40:37,000 --> 00:40:41,000
criticize scripture, criticize
Church authorities just

753
00:40:41,000 --> 00:40:42,700
criticize.
They want to change.

754
00:40:42,700 --> 00:40:46,600
They wanted to move the church
in a new direction, right?

755
00:40:46,900 --> 00:40:50,500
And and so they talked about how
do Do this well Leonard

756
00:40:50,500 --> 00:40:55,200
Arrington had gone really into
economics, but he had what he

757
00:40:55,200 --> 00:40:58,900
believed was a revelation from
God, that he felt, he was told

758
00:40:58,900 --> 00:41:03,800
by God to write history, and to
write the history of the church.

759
00:41:04,100 --> 00:41:06,200
So he felt like he was on a
mission from God.

760
00:41:06,200 --> 00:41:08,500
Like God wanted him to do this
and to change the whole

761
00:41:08,500 --> 00:41:13,700
Direction and he, but he was
very, he was smart.

762
00:41:14,000 --> 00:41:16,500
He said he was different than
some other progressives like to

763
00:41:16,500 --> 00:41:19,900
create waves and controversy.
He was like we do it subtly.

764
00:41:19,900 --> 00:41:23,700
We do it strategically and he
was brilliant at that, he was

765
00:41:23,700 --> 00:41:27,300
definitely a charismatic.
A personable person which isn't

766
00:41:27,300 --> 00:41:30,300
bad, you know.
But and in his mind he really

767
00:41:30,300 --> 00:41:33,400
believed he was doing good right
in his mind he's like, I've got

768
00:41:33,400 --> 00:41:39,300
to save the church right from
these primitive old-fashioned

769
00:41:39,300 --> 00:41:42,600
ideas.
We got to move it to Brave New

770
00:41:42,600 --> 00:41:46,400
World, right?
Obviously.

771
00:41:46,400 --> 00:41:49,300
So he's going to adopt more of a
progressive view point for a

772
00:41:49,308 --> 00:41:53,200
traditionalist they're going to
say am know that that's and and

773
00:41:53,200 --> 00:41:55,200
what do I mean by traditionalist
a traditionalist?

774
00:41:55,200 --> 00:41:58,600
Is someone who says okay Joseph
Smith, the foundation Joseph

775
00:41:58,600 --> 00:42:01,200
Smith, light is solid.
It is true.

776
00:42:01,200 --> 00:42:04,600
We can trust it.
We stick with it and if we build

777
00:42:04,600 --> 00:42:06,600
on that, foundation will be will
be safe.

778
00:42:07,300 --> 00:42:09,900
A progressive perspective.
Instead says, well, you know

779
00:42:09,900 --> 00:42:12,700
what Joseph Smith had a few good
ideas.

780
00:42:12,800 --> 00:42:17,600
He's a nice guy.
But he was a product of this

781
00:42:17,600 --> 00:42:20,900
time.
He had a lot of mostly weird

782
00:42:20,900 --> 00:42:23,300
ideas.
Who knows if the scriptures are

783
00:42:23,300 --> 00:42:26,100
really true at all.
We just need kind of Neda.

784
00:42:26,100 --> 00:42:30,500
Say Okay, that was nice Joseph.
You had a few nice ideas but

785
00:42:30,500 --> 00:42:32,400
let's move to something better
right?

786
00:42:32,400 --> 00:42:35,700
Let's let's do something better
and we are so sophisticated now

787
00:42:35,700 --> 00:42:40,200
that we can achieve that, it's
amazing because it is exactly

788
00:42:40,200 --> 00:42:44,700
the same way when you talk about
and I know I keep coming back to

789
00:42:44,700 --> 00:42:48,600
this but I think it's important
because if we can identify what

790
00:42:48,600 --> 00:42:55,500
was done to to Country, we can
now look and we can see exactly

791
00:42:55,500 --> 00:42:59,000
where we are as a people write
down that same road, right?

792
00:42:59,000 --> 00:43:03,200
So I point back to that a lot,
not because I'm trying to put

793
00:43:03,200 --> 00:43:08,100
undue emphasis there, but
because it provides the roadmap.

794
00:43:08,100 --> 00:43:12,500
Absolutely.
And it is frightening parallel

795
00:43:12,900 --> 00:43:18,500
that that we need to heed.
Very closely because we're

796
00:43:18,500 --> 00:43:20,300
replaying it all over.
Yes.

797
00:43:20,300 --> 00:43:22,700
Yes.
And and we'll get into this a

798
00:43:22,700 --> 00:43:27,900
little bit later, but there is
so much work to do and actually

799
00:43:27,900 --> 00:43:31,900
writing, what I would say is
Real History, true history,

800
00:43:32,000 --> 00:43:35,900
traditionalist history, so much
that has not been done that

801
00:43:35,900 --> 00:43:39,100
needs to be done like our
children need, I'll just give

802
00:43:39,100 --> 00:43:39,500
all this.
What?

803
00:43:39,500 --> 00:43:40,800
Give one examples of sight
engine?

804
00:43:40,800 --> 00:43:44,100
Then we can like head back but
like the history of women in the

805
00:43:44,100 --> 00:43:47,500
church.
Has never been written it until

806
00:43:47,500 --> 00:43:51,400
we wrote Joseph Smith's
pluralize volume 1, published it

807
00:43:51,400 --> 00:43:56,100
this year on Helen Mark.
Kimball that's really the first

808
00:43:56,300 --> 00:44:01,800
biography in the last hundred
years on any of the women of our

809
00:44:01,800 --> 00:44:05,000
foundations actually telling
their stories like actually

810
00:44:05,000 --> 00:44:08,200
getting into the story which
blows my mind.

811
00:44:08,500 --> 00:44:12,300
I don't know how we far.
How do we get this far without

812
00:44:12,300 --> 00:44:14,700
works on Mary, Elizabeth
Reynolds Lightner, analyze our

813
00:44:14,700 --> 00:44:18,300
snow Rebuilding Smith like we
are losing so much of our

814
00:44:18,300 --> 00:44:21,400
history and Leonard Arrington
was brilliant because he went in

815
00:44:21,400 --> 00:44:24,700
and he found other.
He gathered together a whole

816
00:44:24,700 --> 00:44:29,900
team of professors and writers
and he mentored students, he was

817
00:44:29,900 --> 00:44:31,700
smart.
He's like if we're gonna, if

818
00:44:31,700 --> 00:44:33,600
we're going to change the
direction of the church, if

819
00:44:33,600 --> 00:44:37,300
we're going to change the
history, we need to raise a new

820
00:44:37,300 --> 00:44:39,800
generation, it's going to take
several generations to do this.

821
00:44:39,800 --> 00:44:45,100
So he would go and find kids and
students that had talent and

822
00:44:45,200 --> 00:44:47,700
Anshel and he'd invest in them
and frankly.

823
00:44:47,700 --> 00:44:51,300
That's now how we have two
generations later.

824
00:44:52,600 --> 00:44:56,200
An entire most most historians
writing on Latter-Day Saint

825
00:44:56,200 --> 00:44:59,500
history, our Progressive.
They've done a brilliant job.

826
00:44:59,500 --> 00:45:04,900
My hat soft, they have succeeded
but the problem with that is

827
00:45:06,300 --> 00:45:10,200
Faith isn't getting stronger,
it's tanking.

828
00:45:10,600 --> 00:45:14,300
We're having the worst Faith
crisis we've ever seen in the

829
00:45:14,308 --> 00:45:16,300
history of the church.
I don't think there's anything

830
00:45:16,300 --> 00:45:18,500
that I can compare to it.
No.

831
00:45:18,700 --> 00:45:25,700
And and then you couple that
with some things that I did,

832
00:45:25,700 --> 00:45:29,000
I've done podcast on that have
really concerned me because I

833
00:45:29,000 --> 00:45:31,000
pay attention to Mormon Twitter
along, right?

834
00:45:31,000 --> 00:45:34,600
Don't post a lot because you're
not going to win any arguments.

835
00:45:36,400 --> 00:45:39,900
Let me rephrase that you're not
going to make an impact, right?

836
00:45:40,000 --> 00:45:44,900
You're going to make some people
angry and you're going to maybe

837
00:45:44,900 --> 00:45:46,600
make a point.
But other than that, you're not

838
00:45:46,600 --> 00:45:48,300
changing hearts and Minds.
Right.

839
00:45:48,600 --> 00:45:51,800
But the one thing I noticed was
that there was a strange

840
00:45:51,800 --> 00:45:56,500
conflation coming out of BYU of
the, you know, the United order

841
00:45:56,500 --> 00:45:59,500
was nothing more than communism
with a religious event.

842
00:45:59,600 --> 00:46:04,200
So I had on guys who understood,
you know, United order and how

843
00:46:04,200 --> 00:46:08,000
it differed and didn't a Be
comparison because it is and

844
00:46:08,000 --> 00:46:12,100
your Gates.
They were very good about pound

845
00:46:12,100 --> 00:46:14,700
finding the kids that they could
do that with right.

846
00:46:14,700 --> 00:46:19,700
And then actually putting those
kids in a position of semi

847
00:46:19,700 --> 00:46:24,800
authority to kind of recruit and
and as you look at it it's just

848
00:46:24,800 --> 00:46:28,200
Insidious right?
Yes and and a lot of people

849
00:46:28,200 --> 00:46:32,100
didn't know the story but
Leonard Arrington kept detailed

850
00:46:32,100 --> 00:46:37,700
journals documenting.
Really this narrative, how the

851
00:46:37,700 --> 00:46:41,100
how this came about and when he
passed away, he told his kids he

852
00:46:41,100 --> 00:46:42,600
said he didn't want anyone to
read them.

853
00:46:42,600 --> 00:46:47,300
For 25 years, his kids talked
him down to 10 years because

854
00:46:47,300 --> 00:46:50,700
they're like by then like the
like we can let the cat out of

855
00:46:50,700 --> 00:46:52,000
the bag.
Essentially because he said,

856
00:46:52,000 --> 00:46:55,600
there were names and
information, he didn't want

857
00:46:55,600 --> 00:46:59,500
public and you say, oh if you
journals right I don't know.

858
00:46:59,500 --> 00:47:02,700
People listening, how many
journals they have but a couple,

859
00:47:02,700 --> 00:47:04,100
you know, whatever.
Okay.

860
00:47:04,600 --> 00:47:08,100
This journal was 50 boxes,
40,000 pages.

861
00:47:08,200 --> 00:47:13,600
So his journals 40,000 pages 26
linear feet of shelving, so

862
00:47:14,000 --> 00:47:16,900
that's a massive Journal.
Has anyone got a hold of him

863
00:47:16,900 --> 00:47:20,300
yet?
So they did get released and we

864
00:47:20,300 --> 00:47:25,000
had a team go through the
majority of that's relevant for

865
00:47:25,000 --> 00:47:27,400
this conversation.
We went through all of the

866
00:47:27,400 --> 00:47:31,200
entries, it took so a number of
them were published.

867
00:47:31,200 --> 00:47:34,000
I'm trying to remember what year
it starts, but it goes till that

868
00:47:34,000 --> 00:47:39,300
day when he dies, I think.
Ink 1982, I want to say but I

869
00:47:39,300 --> 00:47:43,900
could be wrong on that but we
had a team actually go through

870
00:47:44,100 --> 00:47:49,000
all of his journals and read all
of these entries to pull out,

871
00:47:49,200 --> 00:47:51,200
pull out the meat, kind of pull
out the story.

872
00:47:51,200 --> 00:47:53,700
And that's, that's what we wrote
about in the faith crisis, one

873
00:47:53,700 --> 00:47:55,600
and two books is to tell the
story.

874
00:47:55,800 --> 00:47:58,400
How did we get to this point
where we have a new history?

875
00:47:58,400 --> 00:48:02,000
Because the problem is kids are
coming to their parents or now.

876
00:48:02,000 --> 00:48:04,900
It's people of all ages, right?
It's not just the kids and

877
00:48:04,900 --> 00:48:06,800
they're sitting down.
They're saying, you know what?

878
00:48:07,100 --> 00:48:09,700
We were lied to about our
history and I've been reading a

879
00:48:09,700 --> 00:48:13,000
rough Stone Rolling or I've been
reading more man Enigma or I've

880
00:48:13,000 --> 00:48:16,500
been reading such and such book
or I've been going to my history

881
00:48:16,500 --> 00:48:20,600
class whether it's at BYU or
University of Utah, Utah Valley

882
00:48:20,600 --> 00:48:25,000
University and you know what
this just Joseph Smith was not a

883
00:48:25,008 --> 00:48:28,400
good guy and I don't have
confidence in him at all.

884
00:48:28,400 --> 00:48:31,000
I do not have is zero confidence
and Brigham Young.

885
00:48:31,200 --> 00:48:33,000
There's all these problems that
are this.

886
00:48:33,000 --> 00:48:38,000
They were that and parents are
just sitting there like Whoa, I

887
00:48:38,000 --> 00:48:40,900
don't even I don't even know how
to begin to answer these

888
00:48:40,900 --> 00:48:42,200
questions.
I don't even know where to begin

889
00:48:42,200 --> 00:48:44,800
to look.
And so that's why we wrote The

890
00:48:44,800 --> 00:48:48,200
Faith crisis books because we
said okay, you know, understand

891
00:48:48,200 --> 00:48:52,300
what's really going on is this
is not about, oh, you history is

892
00:48:52,300 --> 00:48:54,600
coming to light, right?
That's, that's the big.

893
00:48:54,600 --> 00:48:57,100
That's the big story will now,
you know, with the internet and

894
00:48:57,100 --> 00:48:59,800
all this, like, there's so much
new history.

895
00:49:00,800 --> 00:49:04,200
Okay, so obviously we are making
new discoveries but there's

896
00:49:04,200 --> 00:49:07,600
nothing there's been no.
Discoveries really substantially

897
00:49:07,600 --> 00:49:10,400
change.
The substance of what we're

898
00:49:10,400 --> 00:49:13,300
discussing here, where the
foundations of the restoration

899
00:49:14,100 --> 00:49:17,600
righteous or were they corrupt?
Was Joseph Smith, a man of

900
00:49:17,607 --> 00:49:20,100
integrity or not we haven't
really found any

901
00:49:20,200 --> 00:49:22,800
earth-shattering discoveries.
That changes the substance of

902
00:49:22,800 --> 00:49:25,300
the argument.
So yes we can add more to the

903
00:49:25,300 --> 00:49:27,700
story.
We can understand more.

904
00:49:28,200 --> 00:49:30,300
That's all fine and good.
But really, what?

905
00:49:30,300 --> 00:49:32,300
We're talking about, the reason
why people are struggling is

906
00:49:32,300 --> 00:49:34,600
because the narrative is
changing.

907
00:49:35,600 --> 00:49:37,300
And it's changing to a
progressive narrative.

908
00:49:37,300 --> 00:49:39,900
And so people need to
understand, why is it changing?

909
00:49:40,200 --> 00:49:42,800
And why does it matter because?
Think about it this way, I

910
00:49:42,800 --> 00:49:47,500
remember one time talking to a
woman that went Progressive, and

911
00:49:47,500 --> 00:49:51,400
I remember overhearing, I
overheard her talking and, and I

912
00:49:51,400 --> 00:49:53,000
knew her.
So, I kind of joined the circus.

913
00:49:53,000 --> 00:49:55,100
Like we, what are you saying?
But she was talking about the

914
00:49:55,100 --> 00:49:57,900
Book of Mormon how it was biased
history because she said, well,

915
00:49:57,900 --> 00:50:00,000
it's written from Nephi's
perspective.

916
00:50:00,200 --> 00:50:02,300
If we have Laman and Lemuel as
version of the story would be

917
00:50:02,300 --> 00:50:05,500
completely different, right?
So she's like, well, nice.

918
00:50:05,700 --> 00:50:09,000
Is writing a bias history.
Instead of understanding know

919
00:50:09,000 --> 00:50:10,800
that was that history is written
through inspiration.

920
00:50:10,800 --> 00:50:16,500
From God that that history is
there is such a thing as truth

921
00:50:16,600 --> 00:50:21,800
there is such a thing as okay.
And how do we get to that truth?

922
00:50:21,900 --> 00:50:24,900
And that's where traditional
some Progressive start to

923
00:50:24,900 --> 00:50:27,000
differ.
So a lot of times progressives

924
00:50:27,000 --> 00:50:28,300
want to tell traditional as
well.

925
00:50:28,300 --> 00:50:30,300
You guys are just in tithing
history, right?

926
00:50:30,300 --> 00:50:33,600
You just, you just want a really
nice story of rainbows and

927
00:50:33,600 --> 00:50:37,300
unicorns, and you don't want to
Like really face the music,

928
00:50:37,300 --> 00:50:38,700
right?
That's not what this

929
00:50:38,700 --> 00:50:42,700
conversation about.
This is not about hiding dark

930
00:50:42,700 --> 00:50:44,400
Parts in history.
It's not about hiding Mountain

931
00:50:44,400 --> 00:50:46,500
Meadows Massacre.
It's not about hiding things

932
00:50:46,500 --> 00:50:48,500
about Brigham, Young.
Let's talk about it.

933
00:50:48,600 --> 00:50:50,400
Let's put everything on the
table.

934
00:50:50,500 --> 00:50:52,600
Let's be open.
Let's get into the Nitty Gritty

935
00:50:52,600 --> 00:50:54,600
details.
That's not what the debate is

936
00:50:54,600 --> 00:50:56,500
about.
The debate is about how do we

937
00:50:56,500 --> 00:51:02,600
interpret that history and
that's it's important because

938
00:51:02,600 --> 00:51:04,700
it's challenging.
People's worldviews, huh?

939
00:51:05,700 --> 00:51:11,800
Which and, and whenever he
jerked out from underneath a

940
00:51:11,800 --> 00:51:15,700
society, whether that is, you
know, the country, whether that

941
00:51:15,700 --> 00:51:18,400
is Mormons, Catholics, I don't
care when you jerk out the

942
00:51:18,400 --> 00:51:20,900
underpinnings of this is our
Bedrock.

943
00:51:21,800 --> 00:51:26,600
You have set that Society into
free fall and it will be

944
00:51:26,600 --> 00:51:29,900
stopped.
The question is, who's going to

945
00:51:29,900 --> 00:51:30,900
stop it?
Right?

946
00:51:30,900 --> 00:51:33,300
Right.
Are the more traditionalist

947
00:51:33,300 --> 00:51:37,000
going to come in and defend?
It is it going to fall into the

948
00:51:37,200 --> 00:51:44,400
Open Arms of less than genuine?
Men, who desire a different

949
00:51:44,400 --> 00:51:48,800
Church than what, what has
historically been around or does

950
00:51:48,800 --> 00:51:52,000
it just shatter entirely?
And those are the questions that

951
00:51:52,000 --> 00:51:54,100
I think.
We all have to ask ourselves and

952
00:51:54,100 --> 00:51:56,000
which side do we fall on them?
Right.

953
00:51:56,100 --> 00:51:58,200
Right.
And which, and why do we fall?

954
00:51:58,500 --> 00:52:00,200
Sides.
And that's why I think the books

955
00:52:00,200 --> 00:52:02,900
are so important because it Maps
it out.

956
00:52:04,000 --> 00:52:08,100
In those books that you wrote,
what was the most startling

957
00:52:08,100 --> 00:52:13,000
thing that you found?
How does it go question?

958
00:52:19,900 --> 00:52:29,000
I think probably.
Is just seeing that there was,

959
00:52:29,400 --> 00:52:34,000
there was there was a plan,
there was a plan and there was a

960
00:52:34,000 --> 00:52:39,200
deliberate effort to to move us
in a different direction.

961
00:52:39,300 --> 00:52:43,700
And I say that understanding and
I want people to realize this,

962
00:52:45,000 --> 00:52:49,500
for the most part, most of these
Progressive men's Progressive

963
00:52:49,500 --> 00:52:54,300
men aren't were in our 100%
sincere, like in there.

964
00:52:54,300 --> 00:52:56,200
Like, that's what you gotta
understand, right?

965
00:52:56,200 --> 00:52:58,700
Leonard.
Is sitting here and he's like I

966
00:52:58,707 --> 00:53:00,900
just don't see much value in the
scriptures.

967
00:53:01,600 --> 00:53:05,500
That's his perspective, right?
So so in his mind he's like well

968
00:53:05,500 --> 00:53:10,600
which would I value, who I value
more Darwin or Moses Darwin,

969
00:53:10,900 --> 00:53:14,600
More Barnes, he even compares,
Joseph Smith, receiving

970
00:53:14,600 --> 00:53:19,800
Revelations to Darwin coming up
with the Origin of Species, like

971
00:53:19,800 --> 00:53:24,300
they're comparable, you know,
and so in his mind you have to

972
00:53:24,300 --> 00:53:26,400
understand when Leonard
Arrington is sitting down across

973
00:53:26,400 --> 00:53:27,500
from as their top.
Benson.

974
00:53:27,500 --> 00:53:31,800
He's like as it happens in just
doesn't understand reality and

975
00:53:31,800 --> 00:53:34,100
of course those are top Benson
is looking at letter Darrington.

976
00:53:34,100 --> 00:53:37,000
He's like this guy doesn't
understand reality, right?

977
00:53:37,500 --> 00:53:39,500
But so they're coming from two
different worldviews and I think

978
00:53:39,500 --> 00:53:43,100
that's critical because
otherwise we talk past each

979
00:53:43,100 --> 00:53:45,800
other in conversations if we
don't understand what's the

980
00:53:45,800 --> 00:53:48,400
worldview that's shaping how we
approach things.

981
00:53:49,000 --> 00:53:55,100
So I think probably The most
shocking or surprising thing

982
00:53:55,100 --> 00:54:00,200
that I learned was that this was
not just a debate in

983
00:54:00,200 --> 00:54:03,500
universities or even behind
closed doors, but it actually

984
00:54:03,500 --> 00:54:08,000
took place in church at judgment
Church headquarters in the mid

985
00:54:08,000 --> 00:54:11,600
to late 1900s.
That this was something that was

986
00:54:11,600 --> 00:54:16,800
being discussed, that was being
a battled over with everything

987
00:54:16,800 --> 00:54:21,600
from people using pen names to
smuggling and sneaking.

988
00:54:22,000 --> 00:54:23,400
It's back and forth, like it's
pretty.

989
00:54:23,700 --> 00:54:26,000
It's a very, it's a very
fascinating story.

990
00:54:26,000 --> 00:54:30,100
It's it's two sides that are
both determined to save the

991
00:54:30,100 --> 00:54:32,400
church from the perspective.
Right?

992
00:54:32,900 --> 00:54:36,000
And so just to lay some
groundwork for what I mean by

993
00:54:36,000 --> 00:54:37,200
that.
So I mentioned letter

994
00:54:37,200 --> 00:54:39,700
Darrington, was called to be a
church historian.

995
00:54:39,900 --> 00:54:42,400
Interestingly enough, he was
called to be the church

996
00:54:42,400 --> 00:54:45,800
historian under Joseph Fielding
Smith said ministration now

997
00:54:45,800 --> 00:54:48,300
which is a little bit ironic.
If you actually know the

998
00:54:48,300 --> 00:54:49,900
difference between Joseph
Fielding Smith and Leonard

999
00:54:49,900 --> 00:54:53,800
Arrington, they're diametrically
opposed And, and you have to

1000
00:54:53,800 --> 00:54:57,500
understand letter in Arrington,
wasn't completely upfront about

1001
00:54:57,500 --> 00:55:01,000
his beliefs who he was and where
he was coming from.

1002
00:55:01,900 --> 00:55:05,300
So he sets up his history
division, he sets up his team

1003
00:55:05,800 --> 00:55:08,800
and he's thinking how do we do
this in a calculated way?

1004
00:55:08,800 --> 00:55:10,200
I'm sorry.
Hold on one second.

1005
00:55:10,400 --> 00:55:13,000
You said there's a couple things
I want to say here.

1006
00:55:13,000 --> 00:55:17,000
First off and I agree with you,
100%.

1007
00:55:17,900 --> 00:55:20,900
The folks who are rewriting
Mormon history, Leonard

1008
00:55:20,900 --> 00:55:23,200
Arrington.
He's doing it out of a good

1009
00:55:23,200 --> 00:55:25,100
place out of a place of
sincerity.

1010
00:55:25,300 --> 00:55:28,400
However, yep.
I would make the argument that

1011
00:55:28,400 --> 00:55:30,900
the the the folks who attacked
us on 9/11.

1012
00:55:30,900 --> 00:55:33,900
They were totally sincere about
their religion, right?

1013
00:55:34,300 --> 00:55:37,000
Being sincere, doesn't make you
right, correct?

1014
00:55:37,100 --> 00:55:39,100
Right.
And that's what I think we have

1015
00:55:39,100 --> 00:55:42,100
to understand.
Is that, you know, just because

1016
00:55:42,100 --> 00:55:44,500
someone approaches it with
Vigor, doesn't make their

1017
00:55:44,500 --> 00:55:47,700
position.
Absolutely, absolutely.

1018
00:55:47,800 --> 00:55:51,800
The the other thing I want to
dive into real quick is you just

1019
00:55:51,800 --> 00:55:55,900
said, Arrington wasn't
completely honest or forthright

1020
00:55:55,900 --> 00:55:58,200
and setting up his Department.
Can you dive into that a little

1021
00:55:58,200 --> 00:55:59,400
bit?
What you mean by that?

1022
00:55:59,400 --> 00:56:05,400
Yes, so you had an so are
arrington's coming from her

1023
00:56:05,400 --> 00:56:08,100
perspective where he's like
we've got to change the history

1024
00:56:08,200 --> 00:56:10,600
and he was well aware that there
were members of the Quorum of

1025
00:56:10,600 --> 00:56:14,000
the twelve and others who.
If they heard that would be like

1026
00:56:14,300 --> 00:56:17,900
no, we're not.
I mean that let's use as it

1027
00:56:17,900 --> 00:56:20,800
happens and 41.8 Backer, right?
Yeah.

1028
00:56:20,800 --> 00:56:24,100
Exactly.
And so so he starts four years

1029
00:56:24,200 --> 00:56:27,400
just kind of subtly like okay
well let's do this project in

1030
00:56:27,400 --> 00:56:31,800
this project and this project
and really I would say flew

1031
00:56:31,800 --> 00:56:36,700
under the radar for a number of
years until there was a book

1032
00:56:36,700 --> 00:56:40,700
published by two members of his
Division and was called the

1033
00:56:40,700 --> 00:56:43,400
story of the Latter-Day Saints
and we go into that story and it

1034
00:56:43,400 --> 00:56:46,600
gives published it.
It's fully Published it has the

1035
00:56:46,607 --> 00:56:49,900
church's name on it and members
of the Quorum of twelve.

1036
00:56:50,000 --> 00:56:53,400
Some of them, get a copy and
they're thinking what in the

1037
00:56:53,400 --> 00:56:57,500
world like this just came out
from our our press because it

1038
00:56:57,500 --> 00:57:01,100
had New Perspectives on Joseph
Smith and talked about Joseph

1039
00:57:01,100 --> 00:57:02,800
Smith, a little bit of the
treasure digging stuff.

1040
00:57:02,800 --> 00:57:06,900
I mean not as Extreme as maybe
what's being talked about today

1041
00:57:07,200 --> 00:57:10,100
but it's starting to lay that
Foundation of changing.

1042
00:57:10,100 --> 00:57:14,600
How we see Joseph Smith, it's
somewhat discredited, the story

1043
00:57:14,600 --> 00:57:17,500
of the seagulls.
Kind of undermines some of the

1044
00:57:17,500 --> 00:57:22,300
more providential aspects of our
history so that comes out and it

1045
00:57:22,300 --> 00:57:25,600
makes its way to president Ezra
Taft Benson and that's if anyone

1046
00:57:25,600 --> 00:57:28,400
knows anything about President
Ezra Taft Benson, he was on that

1047
00:57:28,400 --> 00:57:31,000
stud, right?
And says, my boys, I'm just

1048
00:57:31,000 --> 00:57:32,600
going to say, I'd rather die
without it.

1049
00:57:33,500 --> 00:57:37,000
So, a lot of people know his
stance on political things, but

1050
00:57:37,000 --> 00:57:41,800
they don't realize that I
honestly do not believe we would

1051
00:57:41,800 --> 00:57:45,700
have a church left today.
Meaning like we would have had

1052
00:57:45,700 --> 00:57:49,200
the A faith crisis.
We're having now decades before

1053
00:57:49,200 --> 00:57:51,500
if it was not present as it
happens in, huh?

1054
00:57:51,600 --> 00:57:54,400
It's very interesting to look
that time period in history.

1055
00:57:55,000 --> 00:58:00,600
I've often looked at history and
it's really hard to deny God

1056
00:58:00,600 --> 00:58:04,700
because at certain times certain
men and certain people will come

1057
00:58:04,700 --> 00:58:09,100
up at certain points, asked to
defend Freedom, will defend

1058
00:58:09,200 --> 00:58:13,300
religion to no end and I find it
interesting that if I'm not

1059
00:58:13,300 --> 00:58:18,200
mistaken Benson is present.
The LDS church for time about

1060
00:58:18,200 --> 00:58:21,200
the same time, Ronald Reagan is
President and he's fighting the

1061
00:58:21,200 --> 00:58:25,400
Communists.
You know, you have Thatcher and

1062
00:58:25,400 --> 00:58:27,900
and then Yad Margaret Thatcher
and then you had Pope, John

1063
00:58:27,900 --> 00:58:30,000
Paul, the second said, Ronald
Reagan syrup.

1064
00:58:30,000 --> 00:58:33,900
That's right there.
And he's doing his own thing and

1065
00:58:33,900 --> 00:58:36,800
so and I get Goose Bumps
thinking about because you can

1066
00:58:36,800 --> 00:58:42,100
see the hand of the almighty as
men once it and women once

1067
00:58:42,100 --> 00:58:45,700
again, you know, cast their
there.

1068
00:58:45,800 --> 00:58:48,600
Well, being on the Providence of
divine protection.

1069
00:58:48,700 --> 00:58:52,900
Yes, and people know and the
fascinating thing is, you know,

1070
00:58:53,200 --> 00:58:55,100
you keep coming back to this
thing of, okay?

1071
00:58:55,100 --> 00:58:56,900
So same thing that happened with
the founding fathers.

1072
00:58:57,100 --> 00:59:00,500
So president Benson was the one
that first made that connection

1073
00:59:00,500 --> 00:59:02,600
really?
So his talk God's hand in our

1074
00:59:02,600 --> 00:59:05,900
nation's history.
Given at BYU devotional address.

1075
00:59:05,900 --> 00:59:09,100
So he does this, he starts out
and he says, okay, this is how

1076
00:59:09,400 --> 00:59:12,600
the founding fathers are being
denigrated and the revisionist

1077
00:59:12,600 --> 00:59:14,700
history is trying to take them
out.

1078
00:59:14,900 --> 00:59:18,900
And then he Additions and goes
to church history and he starts

1079
00:59:18,900 --> 00:59:21,400
talking about.
Well there's people that say

1080
00:59:21,400 --> 00:59:24,300
this idea and people that say
this idea and peoples that say,

1081
00:59:24,300 --> 00:59:27,500
this idea.
Now the fascinating thing is

1082
00:59:28,900 --> 00:59:33,000
President Benson gives that
address and little, did he know

1083
00:59:33,100 --> 00:59:38,000
that his own church historian?
Probably a few office Doors

1084
00:59:38,000 --> 00:59:41,700
Down?
Believed a lot of those same

1085
00:59:41,700 --> 00:59:45,000
things, but president Benson
didn't know, but he was very

1086
00:59:45,000 --> 00:59:46,600
soon to know.
It was actually just a few

1087
00:59:46,600 --> 00:59:49,800
months later when this whole
controversy over the story of

1088
00:59:49,800 --> 00:59:53,200
the Latter-Day Saints broke out
and they started having meetings

1089
00:59:53,200 --> 00:59:56,900
and so their meeting and sitting
down with as it happens and I'm

1090
00:59:56,900 --> 00:59:59,700
Marty Peterson and Leonard
Arrington and Spencer W Kimball

1091
01:00:00,000 --> 01:00:02,900
and so Leonard Arrington writes
about these meetings in his

1092
01:00:02,900 --> 01:00:04,900
diary.
And that's really how we know

1093
01:00:04,900 --> 01:00:10,100
about then today and, and it's a
fascinating to see the dialogue

1094
01:00:10,100 --> 01:00:11,800
that goes back and forth.
Because one of the things that

1095
01:00:11,800 --> 01:00:15,500
comes out is I forget which
general Authority, it was but

1096
01:00:15,500 --> 01:00:17,800
Leonard, Arrington talks to one
of them and they say, well,

1097
01:00:17,800 --> 01:00:20,200
what's really the difference
between you and a Joseph

1098
01:00:20,200 --> 01:00:22,900
Fielding Smith.
The fascinating thing is, so

1099
01:00:22,900 --> 01:00:24,700
progressives will always tell
you today.

1100
01:00:25,100 --> 01:00:26,700
Well, you know that Joseph
Fielding Smith.

1101
01:00:26,700 --> 01:00:29,100
They were covering up history
and they were white washing

1102
01:00:29,100 --> 01:00:32,500
things and and we lied about
this and we lied about that.

1103
01:00:32,600 --> 01:00:35,700
So Leonard Arrington is asked
this question like well what's

1104
01:00:35,700 --> 01:00:37,300
the difference between you and
Joseph Fielding Smith?

1105
01:00:37,300 --> 01:00:40,500
And you know what he says he
says, actually our history is

1106
01:00:40,500 --> 01:00:43,700
pretty much the same other than
you know as we're Into the

1107
01:00:43,700 --> 01:00:46,500
archives is we're updating
things and finding documents.

1108
01:00:46,500 --> 01:00:49,100
Yeah we're going to correct some
historical details.

1109
01:00:49,100 --> 01:00:50,400
Absolutely.
We're going to learn a little

1110
01:00:50,400 --> 01:00:52,300
bit more.
You know when Joseph Fielding

1111
01:00:52,300 --> 01:00:54,700
Smith wrote about the Mountain
Meadows Massacre, in the early

1112
01:00:54,700 --> 01:00:57,600
1900s, we've learned more since
then just by finding more

1113
01:00:57,600 --> 01:01:01,200
documents in research great.
But he said, other than that,

1114
01:01:01,200 --> 01:01:06,100
the narrative is pretty much the
same but how I see God's hand in

1115
01:01:06,100 --> 01:01:08,900
history is different than how
Joseph Fielding Smith sees God's

1116
01:01:08,900 --> 01:01:11,100
hand in history.
He says Joseph Fielding Smith

1117
01:01:11,100 --> 01:01:15,700
Sees God as like involved.
And blessings and and Providence

1118
01:01:15,700 --> 01:01:20,000
comes from God and opposition
comes from the adversary he's

1119
01:01:20,000 --> 01:01:23,600
like I don't see it that way
more of a secular God steps out

1120
01:01:23,600 --> 01:01:28,200
of the picture and he is right
and we have more of this

1121
01:01:28,300 --> 01:01:30,300
attitude of.
Well let's look at the economics

1122
01:01:30,300 --> 01:01:33,900
and let's look at this and we
can explain this naturally, we

1123
01:01:33,900 --> 01:01:37,100
don't need the spiritual aspect
and that's when President Benson

1124
01:01:37,100 --> 01:01:39,600
goes to, BYU knee gives us God's
hand in our nation's history.

1125
01:01:39,600 --> 01:01:43,200
He says we need history the way
the Book of Mormon tells it with

1126
01:01:43,400 --> 01:01:47,600
God's hand in it.
You can't have a good history

1127
01:01:47,600 --> 01:01:50,600
without that spiritual element,
and this is where you start

1128
01:01:50,600 --> 01:01:54,900
having the debate.
And so people, you move on to

1129
01:01:55,200 --> 01:01:57,800
boy, Katie Packer boy.
Kate, Parker comes hugely under

1130
01:01:57,800 --> 01:01:59,900
attack with his talk.
The mantle is greater than the

1131
01:01:59,900 --> 01:02:01,400
intellect.
And some people have

1132
01:02:01,400 --> 01:02:04,100
misinterpreted what he said and
saying, well, we just want to

1133
01:02:04,107 --> 01:02:06,200
kind of whitewash things.
Well, he actually go into

1134
01:02:06,200 --> 01:02:09,200
Leonard arrington's, own diary.
He's having conversations with

1135
01:02:09,200 --> 01:02:11,900
white Cape Akron boy.
A Packers, like, I don't really,

1136
01:02:11,900 --> 01:02:14,800
I don't have a problem with Us
discussing tough issues.

1137
01:02:14,800 --> 01:02:18,700
Okay, let's talk about polygamy.
Let's talk about Brigham, Young

1138
01:02:18,700 --> 01:02:21,000
using tobacco.
Let's talk about some of these

1139
01:02:21,000 --> 01:02:24,200
things but it's how we talk
about it.

1140
01:02:24,300 --> 01:02:28,200
It's our understanding, it's how
we interpret it and that's where

1141
01:02:28,200 --> 01:02:31,800
the debate comes down to.
And that's where traditionalist

1142
01:02:31,800 --> 01:02:35,500
like President Benson and Wiki
Packer, and even go to be

1143
01:02:35,500 --> 01:02:37,000
Hinckley.
People are kind of surprised.

1144
01:02:37,000 --> 01:02:39,600
It was actually going to be in
Glee that shut down Leonard

1145
01:02:39,600 --> 01:02:43,000
arrington's.
Rewriting of Joseph Smith.

1146
01:02:43,800 --> 01:02:45,900
Which was actually the
Forerunner to rough Stone

1147
01:02:45,900 --> 01:02:49,700
Rolling, which is, I guess we'll
go there really quick so that

1148
01:02:49,700 --> 01:02:51,800
they're battling for years
Leonard Arrington kind of the

1149
01:02:51,800 --> 01:02:56,100
mass comes down and so he's
battling with just different

1150
01:02:56,100 --> 01:02:59,400
church, leaders for years and he
has this dream of writing the

1151
01:02:59,400 --> 01:03:03,000
sesquicentennial history project
volume. 1 is going to be written

1152
01:03:03,000 --> 01:03:04,900
by this man named Richard
Bushman.

1153
01:03:05,400 --> 01:03:09,100
No one had heard of and then
everyone's pretty much Rhythm.

1154
01:03:09,100 --> 01:03:13,300
Now, the author of rough Stone
Rolling it was Leonard are

1155
01:03:13,400 --> 01:03:17,900
Canton that really got, Richard
Bushman into the area of writing

1156
01:03:17,900 --> 01:03:21,100
church history and really kind
of inspired this, which is all

1157
01:03:21,100 --> 01:03:23,700
documented again.
It's all in our faith crisis

1158
01:03:23,700 --> 01:03:26,300
books.
But he writes this first volume

1159
01:03:26,400 --> 01:03:29,400
of this history on Joseph Smith,
Joseph Smith in the beginnings

1160
01:03:29,400 --> 01:03:30,800
of Mormonism, is what it was
later.

1161
01:03:30,800 --> 01:03:32,700
Published, she writes this
manuscript, it goes to the

1162
01:03:32,700 --> 01:03:35,400
Quorum of the twelve and it gets
vetoed.

1163
01:03:36,300 --> 01:03:39,200
And but the church was in a
quandary because they had made a

1164
01:03:39,207 --> 01:03:43,000
legal agreement to publish it.
So now they're a little bit

1165
01:03:43,000 --> 01:03:43,600
caught.
Caught.

1166
01:03:43,600 --> 01:03:46,100
And so it's, it's actually kind
of a funny story.

1167
01:03:46,100 --> 01:03:50,900
How they maneuver out of that.
We're basically going to be

1168
01:03:50,900 --> 01:03:51,800
Hinckley.
It's other.

1169
01:03:51,800 --> 01:03:54,500
You quit, the time he goes to
the history, to the lawyers, and

1170
01:03:54,500 --> 01:03:56,900
he's like, we need a way to get
out of this contract.

1171
01:03:56,900 --> 01:03:59,700
And they're like, you can't,
it's, you're going to get sued

1172
01:03:59,900 --> 01:04:02,900
if we don't publish this and
he's like, I didn't ask if

1173
01:04:02,900 --> 01:04:04,400
there's a way, I said, find a
way.

1174
01:04:05,800 --> 01:04:09,000
And so, they did this thing of
delaying, delaying delaying

1175
01:04:09,000 --> 01:04:10,700
delaying.
And so it was eventually just

1176
01:04:10,700 --> 01:04:12,800
never published.
And finally, the author's gave

1177
01:04:12,800 --> 01:04:15,400
up and Richard Bushman take his
manuscript and published it

1178
01:04:15,400 --> 01:04:20,800
elsewhere and finally, it got.
So heated that they actually

1179
01:04:21,500 --> 01:04:24,100
moved the shut.
The entire history division

1180
01:04:24,100 --> 01:04:28,200
down, they took away the title
of church historian from Leonard

1181
01:04:28,200 --> 01:04:32,800
Anton, and they moved him and a
number of his staff to BYU.

1182
01:04:34,000 --> 01:04:39,400
Now the thing about moving them
to BYU though, was the strategy

1183
01:04:39,700 --> 01:04:42,100
and the Arrington talks about
this in his book where he's

1184
01:04:42,100 --> 01:04:45,300
like, this is so depressing,
like my dream and progressives

1185
01:04:45,300 --> 01:04:48,400
called The Camel.
I era when they were out there

1186
01:04:48,400 --> 01:04:51,700
running the history Division and
then, but he's like, but you

1187
01:04:51,700 --> 01:04:54,900
know what?
If we go to BYU, I can spend my

1188
01:04:54,900 --> 01:04:56,000
time.
Maybe it's not quite as

1189
01:04:56,000 --> 01:05:01,200
glorious, it doesn't feel like a
victory, but in the long run, we

1190
01:05:01,200 --> 01:05:03,300
might not, we might have lost
the battle, but we're going to

1191
01:05:03,300 --> 01:05:05,600
win the war.
Let's go, let's go after the

1192
01:05:05,600 --> 01:05:06,900
kids.
Exactly.

1193
01:05:06,900 --> 01:05:10,200
Because now because they play a
game, that's different than the

1194
01:05:10,200 --> 01:05:15,300
game, we write the one thing
I'll say for traditionalist

1195
01:05:15,300 --> 01:05:18,400
conservative fundamentalist,
whatever it is is that we tend

1196
01:05:18,400 --> 01:05:20,400
to be kind of reactionary,
right?

1197
01:05:20,400 --> 01:05:22,700
We tend to reaction really good
actually.

1198
01:05:23,200 --> 01:05:26,100
That's right.
We're not good at planning, the

1199
01:05:26,100 --> 01:05:28,700
progressives in whatever start
really apparent.

1200
01:05:28,700 --> 01:05:31,300
They don't mind playing the long
game, right?

1201
01:05:31,300 --> 01:05:33,300
I mean, there was a group of
progresses that were called the

1202
01:05:33,300 --> 01:05:35,800
Fabian.
Socialists who took their name

1203
01:05:35,800 --> 01:05:39,000
from Fabian, the, the Roman
general, who coined, the phrase

1204
01:05:39,000 --> 01:05:41,100
will kill him with a Thousand
Cuts, right?

1205
01:05:41,100 --> 01:05:46,000
They don't mind playing the long
game and and and I'm not sure

1206
01:05:46,000 --> 01:05:47,900
how you counter that, maybe
we'll get into that a little

1207
01:05:47,900 --> 01:05:52,800
later, but yeah, the I'm sure
with, with Arrington being moved

1208
01:05:52,800 --> 01:05:55,200
to BYU, he was like, you're
kidding right?

1209
01:05:55,200 --> 01:05:57,000
I mean, you're going to.
Okay.

1210
01:05:57,300 --> 01:05:59,500
Here we go, right?
We'll see.

1211
01:05:59,500 --> 01:06:01,700
And I do want to go into that
for a second because

1212
01:06:02,000 --> 01:06:03,600
conservatives always seem to
fight.

1213
01:06:03,800 --> 01:06:06,400
Politics.
It doesn't work.

1214
01:06:07,100 --> 01:06:09,300
The progressives are brilliant.
What do they go after they go

1215
01:06:09,300 --> 01:06:12,900
after the education and the
media and the news.

1216
01:06:13,200 --> 01:06:16,300
So what do they go after?
They go after Hollywood, they go

1217
01:06:16,300 --> 01:06:19,700
after the government schools and
then like for Arrington, he's

1218
01:06:19,700 --> 01:06:21,500
like, I'm going to go rewrite
the history.

1219
01:06:21,700 --> 01:06:29,300
It's brilliant.
I'm trying to remember, the name

1220
01:06:29,300 --> 01:06:32,000
is leaving my mind, but the one
who wrote the playwright who

1221
01:06:32,000 --> 01:06:33,600
wrote The Crucible, which is a
book.

1222
01:06:33,700 --> 01:06:36,900
Look, that just denigrates the
Puritans and he actually had

1223
01:06:36,900 --> 01:06:41,700
connections with Communism and
so he was he basically left the

1224
01:06:41,700 --> 01:06:43,800
country for a time but he didn't
interview, which was so

1225
01:06:43,800 --> 01:06:48,400
fascinating because he said,
yeah, they've limited my

1226
01:06:48,400 --> 01:06:53,300
influence for a time but he
said, I know how to write place

1227
01:06:53,300 --> 01:06:56,500
and they don't.
So I'm going to win this game in

1228
01:06:56,500 --> 01:06:59,800
the long run, right?
So it's, it's an it because

1229
01:06:59,800 --> 01:07:01,500
people have got to understand,
he's like Jesus Christ.

1230
01:07:01,500 --> 01:07:03,400
How did he teach he taught
through?

1231
01:07:03,800 --> 01:07:07,400
easy Tom through, helping people
connect things, he taught

1232
01:07:07,400 --> 01:07:11,100
through symbolism and we've
honestly as a whole, I mean, I'm

1233
01:07:11,300 --> 01:07:14,900
over generalizing here, because
there are, there are some great

1234
01:07:17,000 --> 01:07:18,600
People than done, great films
and stuff.

1235
01:07:18,600 --> 01:07:22,500
But we need more people that are
realizing the battle that we're

1236
01:07:22,500 --> 01:07:25,100
in.
We're the battle that we need to

1237
01:07:25,100 --> 01:07:30,200
understand the, the stakes that
are being played the difference

1238
01:07:30,200 --> 01:07:32,400
in the World Views with the
ideologies are really the

1239
01:07:32,400 --> 01:07:33,800
difference between the two
sides.

1240
01:07:34,200 --> 01:07:37,300
And then how to teach that in a
way that will reach people, you

1241
01:07:37,300 --> 01:07:41,600
know, if Peter, if Joseph Smith
was alive today, I don't think

1242
01:07:41,600 --> 01:07:43,500
he would write books.
I think you would go make

1243
01:07:43,500 --> 01:07:46,100
movies, I think he would write
curriculum.

1244
01:07:46,800 --> 01:07:49,400
That is what he would do.
That's so funny you should say

1245
01:07:49,400 --> 01:07:53,400
that because just a couple days
ago, the episode I'll release on

1246
01:07:53,400 --> 01:07:58,900
Saturday is a Mormon
fundamentalist who worked in

1247
01:07:58,900 --> 01:08:02,900
Hollywood who is now making
movies trying to make movies

1248
01:08:02,900 --> 01:08:07,500
that teach correct history.
So there I think they're look.

1249
01:08:08,300 --> 01:08:10,700
If there's one thing that I've
noticed throughout scriptures

1250
01:08:10,700 --> 01:08:14,100
that God loves a dramatic
ending, right?

1251
01:08:14,100 --> 01:08:17,600
And so for a long time, I've
been A pessimistic, right?

1252
01:08:17,600 --> 01:08:19,600
I've been a little like, oh,
we're so screwed.

1253
01:08:19,600 --> 01:08:20,700
This is we're done.
Right?

1254
01:08:20,700 --> 01:08:23,100
Pat pack it in stick a fork in
this word done.

1255
01:08:24,200 --> 01:08:28,300
But I just from from doing this
podcast and talking to people

1256
01:08:28,300 --> 01:08:32,200
from folks in the LDS church to
Independent fundamentalist to

1257
01:08:32,200 --> 01:08:35,500
other groups.
I just have this feeling we're

1258
01:08:35,500 --> 01:08:40,899
all about stand up at the right
time and somehow this this will

1259
01:08:40,899 --> 01:08:46,800
be stemmed, but but you're right
often times we we don't We're in

1260
01:08:46,800 --> 01:08:49,700
a war until it's at the front
door.

1261
01:08:49,800 --> 01:08:52,500
Yes, right.
And because I think we tend to

1262
01:08:52,500 --> 01:08:55,500
want to think the best about
everybody and so we're like

1263
01:08:56,899 --> 01:08:58,600
they're just trying to do the
best they can.

1264
01:08:58,899 --> 01:09:01,899
Meanwhile, we don't see it, we
don't understand it.

1265
01:09:02,200 --> 01:09:06,100
And by the time we do now, we
gotta, we gotta go because

1266
01:09:06,100 --> 01:09:07,899
there's not time.
Right?

1267
01:09:07,899 --> 01:09:10,300
And I think, honestly, that's
one of the number one reasons

1268
01:09:10,300 --> 01:09:15,300
that were actually losing our
kids, and we can talk about the

1269
01:09:15,300 --> 01:09:17,200
music and the culture.
A plays a big role.

1270
01:09:17,200 --> 01:09:21,300
Not something that we have a big
part of the Joseph Smith

1271
01:09:21,300 --> 01:09:23,399
Foundation trying to teach
better standards and better

1272
01:09:23,399 --> 01:09:29,500
culture, but a lot of it is, we
don't engage our kids in seeing

1273
01:09:29,500 --> 01:09:31,300
that.
This is a real war and that they

1274
01:09:31,300 --> 01:09:34,700
have a part in this and that
they can, they can build up

1275
01:09:34,707 --> 01:09:36,200
something better and that they
had.

1276
01:09:36,200 --> 01:09:38,899
And then and the need is now I
just want shirt.

1277
01:09:38,899 --> 01:09:42,700
Like I love what you said about
being pessimistic, and if I can

1278
01:09:42,700 --> 01:09:46,899
find it, just here in the book,
we have a prophecy from And

1279
01:09:47,600 --> 01:09:51,500
Heber C.
Kimball let me just find it

1280
01:09:51,500 --> 01:09:52,200
here.
Yes.

1281
01:09:52,200 --> 01:09:54,500
Okay.
So which at you might?

1282
01:09:54,500 --> 01:09:57,000
Remember I don't this is this is
probably one of my favorite

1283
01:09:57,000 --> 01:10:02,200
Clips, but it starts really
back.

1284
01:10:02,200 --> 01:10:05,200
When Joseph Smith was in
Liberty, Jail and he the Lord

1285
01:10:05,200 --> 01:10:07,200
tells it, right?
He's so depressed because he's

1286
01:10:07,200 --> 01:10:10,800
got hit the, I mean, the three
Witnesses have turned on him,

1287
01:10:10,800 --> 01:10:12,700
but his best friends have turned
on him.

1288
01:10:12,900 --> 01:10:15,200
The people are being driven from
the state of Missouri.

1289
01:10:15,200 --> 01:10:17,600
They're being persecuted.
Like, it looks like things are

1290
01:10:17,600 --> 01:10:19,600
over right?
And the Lord tells him a

1291
01:10:19,600 --> 01:10:22,700
promise.
He says that his people would

1292
01:10:22,700 --> 01:10:25,600
never be turned against him by
the testimony of traitors, which

1293
01:10:25,600 --> 01:10:28,600
I think is interesting, just
thought something to ponder

1294
01:10:28,600 --> 01:10:31,900
about.
But Joe's, Heber, C, Kimball me

1295
01:10:31,900 --> 01:10:34,800
this prophecy.
He said that at present the

1296
01:10:34,800 --> 01:10:38,000
Prophet Joseph, boys late
apparently, in a state of

1297
01:10:38,000 --> 01:10:41,800
slumber.
Convergence right?

1298
01:10:42,400 --> 01:10:45,500
He says everything seems to be
perfectly calm with them.

1299
01:10:45,500 --> 01:10:47,400
Right.
All is well in Zion like we're

1300
01:10:47,400 --> 01:10:49,200
all good.
There's not there's not a war

1301
01:10:49,200 --> 01:10:53,800
going on, but he says but by and
by God, will wake them up and

1302
01:10:53,800 --> 01:10:56,800
they will roar like the Thunders
of Mount Sinai.

1303
01:10:56,800 --> 01:10:59,000
And then this is the fasting
prayer.

1304
01:10:59,000 --> 01:11:02,300
He says there's much work to be
done, God is not asleep and he

1305
01:11:02,300 --> 01:11:04,700
will wake up our children and
they will bear off.

1306
01:11:04,700 --> 01:11:06,100
This Kingdom to the nations of
the earth.

1307
01:11:06,100 --> 01:11:08,600
And what will they do?
So what are we going to do,

1308
01:11:08,600 --> 01:11:11,900
right too?
This war he says, they'll bear

1309
01:11:11,900 --> 01:11:15,000
testimony to the truth of this
work and to the integrity and

1310
01:11:15,000 --> 01:11:19,600
true character of Joseph Smith.
And he also needs to Brigham in

1311
01:11:19,600 --> 01:11:23,600
Heber and others, but I think
that's so fascinating that true

1312
01:11:23,600 --> 01:11:26,300
character of Joseph Smith.
So Joseph Smith's character is

1313
01:11:26,300 --> 01:11:27,900
going to be under attack in the
last days.

1314
01:11:27,900 --> 01:11:30,600
Basically he's saying and
everyone's going to be asleep

1315
01:11:30,700 --> 01:11:32,700
and then they're going to wake
up one day and realize holy cow,

1316
01:11:32,700 --> 01:11:35,200
wouldn't yeah?
Right.

1317
01:11:36,100 --> 01:11:39,200
And and what is the truth
because people come all the time

1318
01:11:39,200 --> 01:11:41,600
and there They're like why red
rough Stone Rolling and I didn't

1319
01:11:41,600 --> 01:11:44,500
feel good about it but I don't
know how to counter it.

1320
01:11:44,500 --> 01:11:46,100
All right guys, it's not real
history.

1321
01:11:46,100 --> 01:11:48,100
Here's the facts.
Here's the data so that you can

1322
01:11:48,100 --> 01:11:51,100
go out on fight but we need
people to realize.

1323
01:11:51,500 --> 01:11:54,400
Okay, this is the real history.
And we need people to stand up

1324
01:11:54,400 --> 01:11:57,000
and say, okay this is you Joseph
Smith really was and we need it.

1325
01:11:57,000 --> 01:12:00,300
Done through plays and through
music and through movies, and

1326
01:12:00,300 --> 01:12:05,400
through books, and stories and
curriculum, and and we can't let

1327
01:12:05,400 --> 01:12:07,900
this die, huh?
Know that restoration will die

1328
01:12:07,900 --> 01:12:16,000
if we roll over and die with it.
yeah, and we have to meet We

1329
01:12:16,000 --> 01:12:20,600
have to meet those who oppose
true history traditional history

1330
01:12:21,300 --> 01:12:25,400
on that field you have to fight
for the culture.

1331
01:12:25,500 --> 01:12:28,400
Yes.
One of the things I've noticed

1332
01:12:28,400 --> 01:12:32,100
for a long time and it was
something that I brought out

1333
01:12:32,100 --> 01:12:34,900
years and years ago and I
remember someone looked at me

1334
01:12:34,900 --> 01:12:38,300
like I had a third arm growing
out of my head but I said

1335
01:12:38,900 --> 01:12:43,000
Mormonism, was kind of meant to
be a counterculture right?

1336
01:12:43,100 --> 01:12:49,200
It wasn't meant to be Just
another church or just another

1337
01:12:50,500 --> 01:12:53,100
religious movement.
No, this was different.

1338
01:12:53,100 --> 01:12:57,200
This was a different Society.
This was coming out of Zion, I

1339
01:12:57,200 --> 01:13:00,600
mean, out of Babylon.
This was doing something

1340
01:13:00,600 --> 01:13:03,300
different.
Unlike any other American church

1341
01:13:03,300 --> 01:13:07,000
that had come forward before
since then, we were meant to be

1342
01:13:07,000 --> 01:13:09,000
different.
So we should have our own

1343
01:13:09,000 --> 01:13:10,800
culture.
We should have our own music.

1344
01:13:10,800 --> 01:13:15,300
We should have our own customs
and all those things because

1345
01:13:15,300 --> 01:13:17,900
that's That's really what it was
about to begin with.

1346
01:13:18,600 --> 01:13:23,300
I think we have and I say we as
Mormons in general, every stripe

1347
01:13:23,500 --> 01:13:27,500
and flavor, we have a lot of us,
not all of us.

1348
01:13:27,700 --> 01:13:31,900
I'm paying with a very broad
brush here but we've all I think

1349
01:13:32,100 --> 01:13:34,900
took our eyes off the Zion a
little bit, right?

1350
01:13:35,800 --> 01:13:39,400
But when you go back and you
look at Joseph Smith, you know

1351
01:13:39,400 --> 01:13:41,600
how many just chapels Joseph
built.

1352
01:13:44,200 --> 01:13:51,900
You want to take a guess 00
temples and communities, right?

1353
01:13:52,000 --> 01:13:55,900
And until we get back to that
idea of a community, this idea

1354
01:13:55,900 --> 01:13:59,700
of a separate culture.
I don't think we're achieving.

1355
01:13:59,700 --> 01:14:01,400
What it is?
We were supposed to be angling

1356
01:14:01,400 --> 01:14:03,400
for.
Yeah, so people don't

1357
01:14:03,400 --> 01:14:05,100
understand.
This is Joseph Smith was so

1358
01:14:05,100 --> 01:14:07,500
clear, right?
He was like what are we doing?

1359
01:14:07,700 --> 01:14:11,400
We're restoring Israel and that
doesn't mean just it's a

1360
01:14:11,407 --> 01:14:14,100
spiritual nice.
Warm Buzzy thing, it's a

1361
01:14:14,100 --> 01:14:17,300
culture.
It's a civilization, its literal

1362
01:14:17,300 --> 01:14:19,900
blood.
It's literal Heritage.

1363
01:14:19,900 --> 01:14:24,500
It's it's a real City and
everything that gets tangible,

1364
01:14:24,500 --> 01:14:26,600
right?
And I like that, you're bringing

1365
01:14:26,600 --> 01:14:30,500
this up because literally
probably almost to the day a

1366
01:14:30,500 --> 01:14:35,000
year ago and when my dad was in
the hospital right days before

1367
01:14:35,000 --> 01:14:39,200
he passed away, he and I were
actually talking about this in

1368
01:14:39,200 --> 01:14:41,600
the hospital and he just he just
grabbed my hand.

1369
01:14:41,600 --> 01:14:44,300
He was like, Hannah, he was Like
you got to tell people.

1370
01:14:45,600 --> 01:14:48,800
We're trying to build Israel.
Again, we're trying and it's a

1371
01:14:48,800 --> 01:14:50,800
real thing.
It's a real City and it's a real

1372
01:14:50,800 --> 01:14:53,400
culture and and that's what our
kids don't understand.

1373
01:14:53,400 --> 01:14:57,000
They think this is all.
I think that's one of the

1374
01:14:57,000 --> 01:14:59,600
reasons we're losing.
Our kids is because we make it

1375
01:14:59,600 --> 01:15:03,700
all about as if it's just it's
spiritual, it's intangible.

1376
01:15:03,700 --> 01:15:07,600
It's just it's nothing.
It's warm and fuzzy, right?

1377
01:15:07,600 --> 01:15:10,400
And then they go off to school
and there's the science teacher

1378
01:15:10,400 --> 01:15:12,900
who's like, well, that's nice.
You got the fairy tales, you

1379
01:15:12,900 --> 01:15:14,800
want the real science.
Like let's actually put this in

1380
01:15:14,800 --> 01:15:17,900
the test.
You actually go make a movie.

1381
01:15:17,900 --> 01:15:22,300
Let's Go actually do
photography, right magazines.

1382
01:15:22,300 --> 01:15:25,200
Let's teach you how to write.
Let's teach you how to go change

1383
01:15:25,200 --> 01:15:28,100
the world and they're like,
okay, yeah, this is what I want.

1384
01:15:28,100 --> 01:15:33,600
I don't want some something that
means nothing and and so we've

1385
01:15:33,600 --> 01:15:35,500
got it help.
We've got a chance, have a

1386
01:15:35,500 --> 01:15:38,000
paradigm shift where we've got
understand.

1387
01:15:38,200 --> 01:15:40,100
And this is where it goes back
to Joseph Smith's teachings and

1388
01:15:40,108 --> 01:15:43,300
this is why it's so because
Joseph Smith taught that he when

1389
01:15:43,300 --> 01:15:45,800
he was setting up Nabu and he's
setting up his Zuri and he said

1390
01:15:45,800 --> 01:15:47,500
him Kirtland.
He's setting up real cities and

1391
01:15:47,508 --> 01:15:50,000
he told the Saints like in
Nauvoo, he said we're going to

1392
01:15:50,000 --> 01:15:52,300
have her own military, we're
gonna have her own schools.

1393
01:15:52,400 --> 01:15:54,700
We're going to have her own
fashion and her own plays in her

1394
01:15:54,708 --> 01:15:56,700
own music, and our own dances.
Let's do this.

1395
01:15:56,700 --> 01:15:59,300
This is exciting, guys.
This is not about Doom and

1396
01:15:59,300 --> 01:16:03,200
Gloom, and debating endless
debates about Doctrine, right?

1397
01:16:03,200 --> 01:16:06,100
Let's, let's, let's move past
that and actually like, let's

1398
01:16:06,100 --> 01:16:11,800
build Zion and, and the people
weren't ready to, but I think we

1399
01:16:11,808 --> 01:16:14,300
got have that aspect.
This is, this is beautiful and

1400
01:16:14,300 --> 01:16:18,100
this is this is it Fighting so.
Absolutely, absolutely.

1401
01:16:18,200 --> 01:16:22,900
So real quick.
Where do you feel?

1402
01:16:22,900 --> 01:16:27,100
We're at right now with this
with getting back to the

1403
01:16:27,100 --> 01:16:30,500
revisions history, where we at
in the process, how far down the

1404
01:16:30,500 --> 01:16:36,900
road are we We are probably at
one of the most decisive moments

1405
01:16:36,900 --> 01:16:39,600
in the history of the
restoration since the days of

1406
01:16:39,608 --> 01:16:43,800
Joseph Smith, I think this
generation is going to decide

1407
01:16:43,800 --> 01:16:48,500
whether we keep it or lose it
because our history has been

1408
01:16:48,500 --> 01:16:50,100
pretty much completely
Rewritten.

1409
01:16:50,100 --> 01:16:55,400
The documents are disappearing
on.

1410
01:16:55,400 --> 01:17:00,000
Like, for all, we talked about
transparency, people really do

1411
01:17:00,000 --> 01:17:03,000
not have access to even our
Attend.

1412
01:17:03,800 --> 01:17:07,600
And why is that?
Let's explain that first.

1413
01:17:07,600 --> 01:17:10,000
What do you mean?
We don't have history I'm access

1414
01:17:10,000 --> 01:17:16,700
to our history, right?
Well I would say one people are

1415
01:17:16,700 --> 01:17:21,600
starting to not value it because
as we as we move down this road

1416
01:17:21,600 --> 01:17:23,200
of okay, well why would we
listen to Joseph?

1417
01:17:23,500 --> 01:17:25,900
The Joseph Smith and rough Stone
Rolling is basically a bumbling

1418
01:17:25,900 --> 01:17:29,200
buffoon.
Mmm, why would anyone care to

1419
01:17:29,200 --> 01:17:32,200
sense what he said about women
about?

1420
01:17:32,300 --> 01:17:35,900
Economics about family life
about Society about culture,

1421
01:17:36,300 --> 01:17:39,300
nobody cares.
And and that's why nobody really

1422
01:17:39,300 --> 01:17:43,600
studies his teaching.
So, a number of years ago, our

1423
01:17:43,600 --> 01:17:45,700
team with the Joseph Smith
Foundation, sat down and were

1424
01:17:45,700 --> 01:17:48,900
like why do we not have all of
Joseph, Smith's teachings

1425
01:17:48,900 --> 01:17:54,400
organized by topic.
Like it's been quiet lately.

1426
01:17:54,700 --> 01:17:59,600
It's been, it's been a while.
It's almost been 200 years since

1427
01:17:59,600 --> 01:18:03,300
the restoration of the church is
founded, and we don't even have

1428
01:18:03,300 --> 01:18:05,400
Joseph Smith teachings,
organized by topic.

1429
01:18:05,500 --> 01:18:08,900
How can that be?
How can that be?

1430
01:18:09,600 --> 01:18:11,300
And so we've actually been
working on that and we're

1431
01:18:11,300 --> 01:18:14,500
actually getting ready to
release it and of September.

1432
01:18:14,600 --> 01:18:17,800
This is 2022 when we're
recording this world's beginning

1433
01:18:17,800 --> 01:18:20,000
of September.
Twenty twenty two, but we'll

1434
01:18:20,000 --> 01:18:23,300
have it released by the end.
September is a first pass phase.

1435
01:18:23,300 --> 01:18:26,000
One of Joseph Smith's teachings,
all organized by topic freely

1436
01:18:26,000 --> 01:18:28,700
accessible so people can
actually go see what he taught.

1437
01:18:29,000 --> 01:18:34,200
So people can't for those that
care and and and so, so number

1438
01:18:34,200 --> 01:18:37,400
one, there is an element where
we're just not making that

1439
01:18:37,400 --> 01:18:41,300
history accessible in a way that
people can actually digest.

1440
01:18:41,500 --> 01:18:43,800
Because yes, you can go read the
judges, no papers.

1441
01:18:43,800 --> 01:18:46,700
But It's, that's not very
easier.

1442
01:18:46,700 --> 01:18:50,200
Friendly the common member.
It's it's harder.

1443
01:18:50,200 --> 01:18:52,400
If you're a fierce collar, if
you're a researcher, you know,

1444
01:18:52,400 --> 01:18:55,100
what to go and look for.
But if you're just an average

1445
01:18:55,100 --> 01:18:56,300
member, you're not going to find
it.

1446
01:18:56,300 --> 01:18:59,800
Yeah, they're divided up the way
they are because for a reason.

1447
01:18:59,800 --> 01:19:03,700
Yeah, yeah, it's very academic.
It's a very academic, it's very

1448
01:19:03,700 --> 01:19:06,700
dry.
So unless you are a complete

1449
01:19:06,700 --> 01:19:11,800
nerd, which I am, they're not
going to be, they're not going

1450
01:19:11,800 --> 01:19:14,400
to be, it's not a juicy read,
right?

1451
01:19:14,400 --> 01:19:17,400
Yeah.
I think people gravitated

1452
01:19:17,400 --> 01:19:20,500
towards rough Stone Rolling
because it was a Jew juicy

1453
01:19:20,500 --> 01:19:21,700
reads.
Same speak, right?

1454
01:19:21,700 --> 01:19:26,200
Yes, yes.
And then just follow finishing

1455
01:19:26,200 --> 01:19:30,200
answer your question that the
history that we do have is

1456
01:19:30,200 --> 01:19:31,700
Progressive rewriting of
History.

1457
01:19:31,700 --> 01:19:34,800
So, let's take a lies, our snow,
all of the biographies out there

1458
01:19:34,800 --> 01:19:38,200
on her life are written by
progressives and by women who

1459
01:19:38,200 --> 01:19:41,100
are going to be interpreting her
through a feminist dick lens,

1460
01:19:41,100 --> 01:19:44,300
which for them Eliza R snow is a
conundrum because on the one

1461
01:19:44,300 --> 01:19:48,600
hand, she's So independent, and
she is so strong.

1462
01:19:48,700 --> 01:19:52,700
And at the same time, she's so
submissive her how she is an

1463
01:19:52,700 --> 01:19:57,700
enigma and it's because if you
can't understand Eliza without

1464
01:19:57,700 --> 01:20:01,500
understanding her worldview, and
we need a traditionalist history

1465
01:20:01,500 --> 01:20:04,100
on her.
I want to do her biography.

1466
01:20:04,100 --> 01:20:10,300
I fully intend to, but so are
the so that our girls are

1467
01:20:10,300 --> 01:20:14,200
growing up without female role
models because they don't have

1468
01:20:14,200 --> 01:20:16,100
the history, they don't have the
example.

1469
01:20:16,100 --> 01:20:18,900
And I went through this myself a
number of years ago, I was

1470
01:20:18,900 --> 01:20:22,800
sitting with a group of women
and I just I told them, I said,

1471
01:20:22,800 --> 01:20:26,900
I've been pondering this.
I don't know what it means to be

1472
01:20:26,900 --> 01:20:29,800
a good mom.
Like I don't feel like I really

1473
01:20:29,800 --> 01:20:33,200
understand from God's
perspective, what is true

1474
01:20:33,200 --> 01:20:36,600
Womanhood true motherhood?
What does that really mean?

1475
01:20:37,200 --> 01:20:40,500
Because I know what?
All the different factions mean

1476
01:20:40,500 --> 01:20:43,300
of different extremes, right?
I know what the people with the

1477
01:20:43,300 --> 01:20:45,300
pink aprons and I know what the
feminist saying.

1478
01:20:45,400 --> 01:20:48,200
All these different, I want to
know what God says.

1479
01:20:48,200 --> 01:20:51,100
I want to know what that
perspective is and I don't think

1480
01:20:51,100 --> 01:20:53,400
that perspectives been told, and
I think the reason why hasn't

1481
01:20:53,400 --> 01:20:55,900
told his because we haven't even
told her history, it's in our

1482
01:20:55,900 --> 01:20:59,900
history, it's in these women
like Eliza R snow like Helen

1483
01:20:59,900 --> 01:21:02,200
Mark Kimball that was one of the
fun things about writing about

1484
01:21:02,200 --> 01:21:06,400
Helen, Mark, Kimball story is
she really getting into her

1485
01:21:06,400 --> 01:21:08,300
personality?
Who she was as a mother who she

1486
01:21:08,308 --> 01:21:10,300
was as a writer who, how she
thought?

1487
01:21:10,300 --> 01:21:13,100
Who she was as a person.
How she struggled with health

1488
01:21:13,100 --> 01:21:16,400
challenges losing children.
Let's, let's Estelle these real

1489
01:21:16,400 --> 01:21:20,000
stories and let's, yes, I agree
with the progressives on this

1490
01:21:20,000 --> 01:21:21,500
thing.
Let's, let's not hide the

1491
01:21:21,500 --> 01:21:24,100
history.
Let's not over generalize it.

1492
01:21:24,100 --> 01:21:27,400
Let's get beyond the Sunday
school version.

1493
01:21:27,400 --> 01:21:30,300
Let's do that.
Let's get into the Nitty Gritty

1494
01:21:30,300 --> 01:21:32,300
details.
Let's talk about Helen are

1495
01:21:32,300 --> 01:21:35,600
Campbell's struggling through
chronic illness and struggling

1496
01:21:35,600 --> 01:21:37,700
through just different bouts of
anxiety.

1497
01:21:37,700 --> 01:21:41,100
And possibly, you could even say
depression and discouragement,

1498
01:21:41,100 --> 01:21:43,100
let's talk about it.
And let's talk about how she got

1499
01:21:43,100 --> 01:21:45,300
through it and how she kept her
faith.

1500
01:21:45,500 --> 01:21:47,300
I want to know that real
history, I want to know the

1501
01:21:47,300 --> 01:21:50,300
nitty-gritty details, because
there's nothing to be afraid of.

1502
01:21:50,300 --> 01:21:53,200
It will be Faith promoting
because it will point to God.

1503
01:21:53,900 --> 01:21:55,700
Would you take away from right
about her?

1504
01:21:56,100 --> 01:21:58,600
I know it's kind of an aside
from what we're talking about,

1505
01:21:58,600 --> 01:22:03,200
but I'm, yeah.
Is he'll probably that how to

1506
01:22:03,200 --> 01:22:07,700
be?
Getting into her story.

1507
01:22:07,700 --> 01:22:12,500
Showed me that, she was someone
who had a real story like me.

1508
01:22:12,500 --> 01:22:15,200
You could say, I'm not saying,
I've lived through everything

1509
01:22:15,200 --> 01:22:18,900
she has, but saying she
struggled and getting into her

1510
01:22:18,900 --> 01:22:21,800
mind because when you actually
get into our Diaries you can

1511
01:22:21,800 --> 01:22:23,200
actually see.
All this is a real person.

1512
01:22:23,200 --> 01:22:25,700
A mother that was staying up.
All night stressed about her

1513
01:22:25,700 --> 01:22:29,000
kids leaving the church.
She had a daughter and that

1514
01:22:29,000 --> 01:22:31,900
married someone who wasn't a
member of the church and she

1515
01:22:31,900 --> 01:22:35,000
begged and she pleaded with her
and that was so hard and she had

1516
01:22:35,100 --> 01:22:36,800
another daughter.
Struggling with their testing.

1517
01:22:36,800 --> 01:22:40,600
She's literally having a severe
Health Challenge and she's on

1518
01:22:40,600 --> 01:22:44,200
the couch and she's begging her
kids, like don't lose your

1519
01:22:44,200 --> 01:22:46,600
faith, keep the Sabbath day.
Holy right?

1520
01:22:46,700 --> 01:22:49,400
So that show.
So for a parent that's worried

1521
01:22:49,400 --> 01:22:52,500
or stayed up late nights
worrying about a child who's

1522
01:22:52,500 --> 01:22:55,400
struggling with their testimony
Helen Mark Kimball was there and

1523
01:22:55,400 --> 01:23:00,800
she talked about it and she was
also someone who had gouts who

1524
01:23:00,800 --> 01:23:04,100
was wondering I don't know about
this whole idea, plural

1525
01:23:04,100 --> 01:23:05,600
marriage, I don't know if I
believe this.

1526
01:23:05,800 --> 01:23:08,400
Us, I don't know how to go
through losing my kids.

1527
01:23:08,400 --> 01:23:12,700
So, she lost her first three
children on the first in Winter

1528
01:23:12,700 --> 01:23:15,900
quarters, and the second on the
track to Utah.

1529
01:23:16,100 --> 01:23:20,800
And it was, she had such severe.
You can probably say postpartum

1530
01:23:20,800 --> 01:23:24,200
depression and then also just
depression from losing her

1531
01:23:24,400 --> 01:23:26,200
losing the kids.
Yeah.

1532
01:23:26,200 --> 01:23:28,900
And the, and the sickness of the
track that she almost died and

1533
01:23:28,900 --> 01:23:31,700
she wanted to die, and she talks
about experience, it's almost

1534
01:23:31,700 --> 01:23:35,000
like an alma, the younger
experience, but she's very real.

1535
01:23:35,000 --> 01:23:38,800
She's This is she's wrong.
No, she's raw and that's what I

1536
01:23:38,800 --> 01:23:42,800
loved about it because I was
like I'm I'm sick of the fluff.

1537
01:23:42,800 --> 01:23:45,100
I want to know the real raw
stories.

1538
01:23:45,100 --> 01:23:48,700
I want to know about the trials.
I want to know about the doubts

1539
01:23:48,700 --> 01:23:51,100
because I want to know how to
get through it and what the

1540
01:23:51,100 --> 01:23:53,900
answers are and I think people
need those stories today.

1541
01:23:53,900 --> 01:23:59,300
People need to know, let's not
pretend like everything's fine.

1542
01:23:59,500 --> 01:24:00,900
Let's actually talk about.
Okay.

1543
01:24:00,900 --> 01:24:03,000
How does the Gospel of Jesus
Christ?

1544
01:24:03,000 --> 01:24:05,900
Answer to these problems and
from her Helen are Kimball Was a

1545
01:24:05,907 --> 01:24:09,200
perspective of a woman.
So instead of just reading,

1546
01:24:09,200 --> 01:24:12,300
okay, here's a principal was
from a woman's perspective.

1547
01:24:12,500 --> 01:24:16,800
How did she get through it?
That was honestly the funnest

1548
01:24:16,800 --> 01:24:18,800
part for me.
That's awesome.

1549
01:24:19,600 --> 01:24:22,500
That is cool.
Let me ask you this.

1550
01:24:22,800 --> 01:24:26,500
We talked a few seconds, a few
moments ago about we haven't

1551
01:24:26,500 --> 01:24:29,400
done a good job, telling our
kids.

1552
01:24:29,400 --> 01:24:31,600
What's really going on, right,
right?

1553
01:24:31,700 --> 01:24:33,500
Yes.
How do we fix that?

1554
01:24:36,400 --> 01:24:41,800
I'm okay.
So we I'm going to I'm going to

1555
01:24:41,808 --> 01:24:45,600
start by saying this is a huge,
another huge topic.

1556
01:24:46,700 --> 01:24:48,500
I'll share a few things that
work for our family.

1557
01:24:48,500 --> 01:24:51,700
There's so many things, but we
actually just wrote a book about

1558
01:24:51,700 --> 01:24:53,100
this called a christ-centered
home.

1559
01:24:53,200 --> 01:24:56,600
Kind of telling the story behind
the Jose with foundation and how

1560
01:24:57,500 --> 01:24:59,100
how it was a dad with bunch of
his kids.

1561
01:24:59,200 --> 01:25:04,600
But this, but one of the things
is not being afraid to talk to

1562
01:25:04,600 --> 01:25:08,100
her.
Kids about the good and the Bad

1563
01:25:08,200 --> 01:25:11,400
and the Ugly too.
Often we want to pretend like

1564
01:25:11,400 --> 01:25:14,000
well that's - we don't want to
talk about the negative stuff.

1565
01:25:14,000 --> 01:25:16,100
We don't want to talk about the
- scriptures, we don't want to

1566
01:25:16,100 --> 01:25:20,600
talk about - history like no sit
down with your 15 year old or

1567
01:25:20,600 --> 01:25:22,500
you're even 13 year old.
And talk about the Mountain

1568
01:25:22,500 --> 01:25:25,300
Meadows Massacre and the full
story.

1569
01:25:25,300 --> 01:25:27,700
I mean you don't have to read
every gory detail, right?

1570
01:25:27,700 --> 01:25:30,600
I mean, it's a little graphic,
if you go read all the original

1571
01:25:30,600 --> 01:25:33,900
counts but talk about what
really happened and talk about.

1572
01:25:33,900 --> 01:25:35,900
Okay, this is a story.
Where there were state

1573
01:25:35,900 --> 01:25:39,300
presidents and leaders that
pressured members into doing it

1574
01:25:39,300 --> 01:25:41,800
through their Authority and
said, as your priesthood leaders

1575
01:25:41,800 --> 01:25:44,500
were telling you to do this and
massacred men, women and

1576
01:25:44,500 --> 01:25:49,500
children under a false truths,
like that's going to be hard for

1577
01:25:49,500 --> 01:25:52,600
people to swallow.
And so, sit down your kids and

1578
01:25:52,600 --> 01:25:53,900
see.
But this is how we understand it

1579
01:25:53,900 --> 01:25:55,800
through the gospel.
This is where they went wrong.

1580
01:25:55,800 --> 01:25:57,800
They were following a path of
blind obedience.

1581
01:25:57,800 --> 01:25:59,300
This is what Joseph Smith.
Top.

1582
01:25:59,300 --> 01:26:00,500
You see if they had followed
Joseph.

1583
01:26:00,500 --> 01:26:02,900
Smith's teachings about war.
This never would have happened

1584
01:26:02,900 --> 01:26:04,700
if they had followed What Joe
Brigham.

1585
01:26:04,900 --> 01:26:06,600
Tha this never would have
happened.

1586
01:26:06,700 --> 01:26:09,000
Let's talk about what was going
on in the context with the Utah,

1587
01:26:09,000 --> 01:26:13,500
war and forgiveness and
literally weeks before I think

1588
01:26:13,500 --> 01:26:15,100
was George.
A Smith had been visiting that

1589
01:26:15,100 --> 01:26:19,100
area and told them, forgive,
forgive, you cannot hold anger

1590
01:26:19,100 --> 01:26:20,800
in your hearts.
Anyways, go into the whole

1591
01:26:20,800 --> 01:26:23,200
story, right, sit down with your
kids and talk about it.

1592
01:26:23,200 --> 01:26:26,100
Talk about the Donner Party,
talk about how Wilford Woodruff

1593
01:26:26,100 --> 01:26:28,500
said, some of the members of the
Donner Party were actually

1594
01:26:28,600 --> 01:26:30,300
former persecutors of the
Saints.

1595
01:26:30,500 --> 01:26:32,800
Let's, let's talk about this and
that was, that was something I

1596
01:26:32,808 --> 01:26:35,400
was so grateful that my dad had
growing up As we talked about

1597
01:26:35,400 --> 01:26:38,300
communism, when we got into the
history but it was all from the

1598
01:26:38,308 --> 01:26:40,800
perspective of understanding it
from God's point of view.

1599
01:26:41,100 --> 01:26:45,400
So it was never depressing and
disgusting or hopeless.

1600
01:26:45,400 --> 01:26:48,200
It was okay.
Here's the good, the bad, the

1601
01:26:48,208 --> 01:26:50,000
ugly.
Here's where we've succeeded.

1602
01:26:50,100 --> 01:26:53,000
Here's where we failed.
Now, let's take that knowledge

1603
01:26:53,000 --> 01:26:55,500
to go make a difference.
Now, we can understand our times

1604
01:26:55,500 --> 01:26:57,500
better and go to a difference.
Make a difference.

1605
01:26:57,500 --> 01:27:01,800
And then two, I would say, every
parent needs to figure out what

1606
01:27:01,800 --> 01:27:04,300
their family mission is.
So we always talk a lot of

1607
01:27:04,300 --> 01:27:06,400
times.
For Education circles about

1608
01:27:06,400 --> 01:27:08,800
people having individual
missions like oh God, help your

1609
01:27:08,800 --> 01:27:10,900
kids figure out your missions.
Well if you look in the

1610
01:27:10,900 --> 01:27:14,700
scriptures, everything is about
family missions, right?

1611
01:27:14,700 --> 01:27:17,100
So Lehigh doesn't just have
Lehigh's Mission.

1612
01:27:17,100 --> 01:27:21,600
He is a mission for his whole
family Alma goes and takes his

1613
01:27:21,600 --> 01:27:23,900
sons with him.
When he goes to preach to the

1614
01:27:23,900 --> 01:27:26,100
zoramites with polar.
A me, I'm Tim story.

1615
01:27:26,200 --> 01:27:28,900
It was a dad and his boys going
on that mission.

1616
01:27:29,100 --> 01:27:30,700
We forget about that
perspective.

1617
01:27:31,500 --> 01:27:34,900
The sons of mosiah their
brothers, it's a family, I'm

1618
01:27:34,900 --> 01:27:37,400
going on a mission to convert
the lamanites, we don't think

1619
01:27:37,400 --> 01:27:40,400
this way anymore.
It's so counter to the our

1620
01:27:40,400 --> 01:27:42,900
culture where it's just, we
fragmented everyone.

1621
01:27:42,900 --> 01:27:45,800
But instead sitting down and
saying, okay, every family, I do

1622
01:27:45,800 --> 01:27:49,000
believe this, I believe every
family was sent down with a

1623
01:27:49,000 --> 01:27:52,700
purpose to do together.
Mmm, and I would say, our family

1624
01:27:52,700 --> 01:27:55,100
could have never done any of
these books and DVDs without

1625
01:27:55,100 --> 01:27:57,300
every single one of my siblings.
Every single one of them was

1626
01:27:57,300 --> 01:27:58,900
needed.
Every single one of them was

1627
01:27:58,900 --> 01:28:01,900
essential with their different
talents to this day.

1628
01:28:02,000 --> 01:28:05,100
I when, when I'm even working on
my books or articles, Even my

1629
01:28:05,100 --> 01:28:08,200
Facebook posts or anything.
Like, I talked to my sister and

1630
01:28:08,200 --> 01:28:12,000
because she thinks different
than I do and she has it

1631
01:28:12,000 --> 01:28:13,700
perspective that is absolutely
needed.

1632
01:28:13,700 --> 01:28:17,300
I would fail in my mission
without her help and she would

1633
01:28:17,300 --> 01:28:21,000
fail on her Mission without the
rest of our family like families

1634
01:28:21,000 --> 01:28:24,500
were meant to work together.
And kids need to feel that maybe

1635
01:28:24,500 --> 01:28:26,800
even feel they're important.
They need to feel like we were

1636
01:28:26,800 --> 01:28:28,700
sent together as a team to do
this.

1637
01:28:29,100 --> 01:28:30,800
Let's go build Zion let's go do
it.

1638
01:28:31,300 --> 01:28:34,600
Why wait my wife who is just way
better?

1639
01:28:34,700 --> 01:28:39,500
Or than I am.
I remember she was about seven

1640
01:28:39,500 --> 01:28:41,900
eight years ago.
She just came and she said, we

1641
01:28:41,900 --> 01:28:43,900
need to have a family mission
statement.

1642
01:28:44,400 --> 01:28:46,300
I love it.
And so we sat down and I

1643
01:28:46,308 --> 01:28:49,400
remember we talked about it and
we, we got everybody's input and

1644
01:28:49,400 --> 01:28:52,200
we came up with one.
We even developed a family

1645
01:28:52,200 --> 01:28:56,400
slogan, which was all it takes
is all you got, right?

1646
01:28:56,400 --> 01:29:01,300
And what happened in that
process is that we got really

1647
01:29:01,300 --> 01:29:05,500
United really quickly, right?
We understood, we have Chart,

1648
01:29:05,500 --> 01:29:07,100
you know, we've chartered a path
now.

1649
01:29:07,100 --> 01:29:10,600
We gotta go, right?
And, and I think you're 100%

1650
01:29:10,600 --> 01:29:14,900
correct somehow.
I think that, as a society,

1651
01:29:14,900 --> 01:29:18,600
we've allowed our families to
kind of be pulled apart a little

1652
01:29:18,600 --> 01:29:19,700
bit.
Yeah, right.

1653
01:29:19,700 --> 01:29:24,400
And, and what's been so
interesting to me was it was

1654
01:29:24,400 --> 01:29:27,400
never bad stuff, most of the
time, right?

1655
01:29:27,400 --> 01:29:31,100
It was never, it was never.
Hey, John, he's out back.

1656
01:29:31,100 --> 01:29:34,600
Smoking a joint, right?
It was always well, we got foot.

1657
01:29:34,700 --> 01:29:35,600
Ball.
And we got.

1658
01:29:35,600 --> 01:29:39,100
Yeah, and and we have have all
these other things, right?

1659
01:29:39,100 --> 01:29:42,000
And for the for the most part,
you can't say they were bad

1660
01:29:42,000 --> 01:29:44,600
things.
Hey, were just things, right?

1661
01:29:44,600 --> 01:29:47,200
And you're trying to keep your
kids active and, and, you know,

1662
01:29:47,200 --> 01:29:50,400
we live in a society now where
people feel like it takes two

1663
01:29:50,400 --> 01:29:53,700
incomes and, and so Mom's work
and dad's working, and you're

1664
01:29:53,700 --> 01:29:57,900
just stretched.
Yeah, a part and friends are

1665
01:29:57,900 --> 01:30:00,500
mostly just chauffeurs driving
from like ballet and then we got

1666
01:30:00,500 --> 01:30:02,900
to go to this friend and this
universe Coop.

1667
01:30:03,200 --> 01:30:07,100
And so I remember as Me and my
wife face this, we said, okay,

1668
01:30:08,000 --> 01:30:09,600
we gotta do something different,
right?

1669
01:30:09,600 --> 01:30:12,200
And we're going to be weird and
we're going to look strange, but

1670
01:30:12,200 --> 01:30:14,800
that's okay.
Because we were seeing it.

1671
01:30:14,808 --> 01:30:17,900
We were feeling it not.
I didn't like it and she didn't

1672
01:30:17,900 --> 01:30:20,100
like it.
So we finally just said, each

1673
01:30:20,100 --> 01:30:21,300
kid gets one.
Right?

1674
01:30:21,300 --> 01:30:25,700
You gotta pick one because we
can't just do this.

1675
01:30:25,700 --> 01:30:29,300
We're missing out.
We come to a point as people

1676
01:30:29,300 --> 01:30:32,800
were, we have to make hard
decisions and I believe the

1677
01:30:32,800 --> 01:30:36,900
hardest of decisions is Always
choosing between what's good or

1678
01:30:36,900 --> 01:30:39,500
even great, and what is vital?
Yeah.

1679
01:30:39,700 --> 01:30:43,700
And and I think it's in making
those decisions when you choose

1680
01:30:43,700 --> 01:30:45,700
the sight of what's vital,
right?

1681
01:30:45,800 --> 01:30:48,000
That you begin to get yourself
squared again.

1682
01:30:48,000 --> 01:30:51,300
Yes and and I don't want people
to misinterpret that is like

1683
01:30:51,300 --> 01:30:55,200
okay kill all the activities,
kill the recreation, right?

1684
01:30:55,300 --> 01:30:58,000
But it's from this perspective
and that's why it's so important

1685
01:30:58,000 --> 01:31:00,800
to understand that building
Israel Gathering his role in

1686
01:31:00,800 --> 01:31:03,300
building Zion is building its
building a culture.

1687
01:31:03,300 --> 01:31:05,800
Right because Is like in our
home.

1688
01:31:05,800 --> 01:31:11,600
So my dad just loved dance.
And so he but he was like, okay,

1689
01:31:11,700 --> 01:31:14,500
there's a lot of dances that are
very corrupt.

1690
01:31:15,500 --> 01:31:19,900
So he's like, so he's like,
well, let's restore it right.

1691
01:31:19,900 --> 01:31:21,900
We need Recreation.
We need something to unstring.

1692
01:31:21,900 --> 01:31:25,200
The bow is, we're going would
say let's restart.

1693
01:31:25,200 --> 01:31:27,600
Let's go study out the dances.
Let's go study out, Jane Austen

1694
01:31:27,600 --> 01:31:29,300
dances, let's go study out
square dancing.

1695
01:31:29,300 --> 01:31:33,600
Let's go study out even earlier
and I bought all the DVDs back

1696
01:31:33,600 --> 01:31:36,200
in the day when people and do He
became pliers, right?

1697
01:31:36,500 --> 01:31:38,600
And I was like, let's watch
these and he was like, okay.

1698
01:31:38,600 --> 01:31:40,500
Now let's get together with
friends and let's teach each

1699
01:31:40,500 --> 01:31:46,200
other these dances and let's do
this simple actually, like it

1700
01:31:46,200 --> 01:31:48,300
sounds maybe like, oh my
goodness, I would be so much

1701
01:31:48,300 --> 01:31:51,700
work, but actually just sit down
with your family, once or twice

1702
01:31:51,700 --> 01:31:54,900
a week and dance together and
then get together with other

1703
01:31:54,900 --> 01:31:58,300
families and your friends and be
like, let's learn this and your

1704
01:31:58,300 --> 01:32:00,000
start.
You are literally starting the

1705
01:32:00,000 --> 01:32:03,300
Redemption design right there in
your home in that area, so it

1706
01:32:03,300 --> 01:32:04,600
can be fun.
Exciting to be exciting.

1707
01:32:04,700 --> 01:32:07,200
Can be like, let's sit down, and
let's let's restore our food the

1708
01:32:07,200 --> 01:32:09,500
way we eat.
Let's and let's figure out how

1709
01:32:09,500 --> 01:32:11,200
to do this.
So I have some siblings like

1710
01:32:11,200 --> 01:32:14,000
they love to cook, right?
So that's their expertise.

1711
01:32:14,000 --> 01:32:17,300
Might it's not necessarily my
expertise, that's not my

1712
01:32:17,300 --> 01:32:19,300
favorite thing to do, but they
love to do it.

1713
01:32:19,300 --> 01:32:20,900
So it's like okay well let's go
study out.

1714
01:32:20,900 --> 01:32:23,200
These different spices and
different cultures and let's

1715
01:32:23,200 --> 01:32:25,300
figure out how would an
Israelite eat?

1716
01:32:25,300 --> 01:32:26,600
What does this culture look
like?

1717
01:32:26,600 --> 01:32:29,500
And just involve your kids and
communicate that to them.

1718
01:32:29,700 --> 01:32:32,900
Okay now guys, let's go, let's
go share this on a Blog so other

1719
01:32:32,900 --> 01:32:35,300
people can find it and then all
of Of a sudden now they're

1720
01:32:35,300 --> 01:32:37,600
missionaries.
You go out there and spread a

1721
01:32:37,600 --> 01:32:40,500
better culture.
Yep, your dad was a lot nicer to

1722
01:32:40,500 --> 01:32:43,400
you guys and I was to my kids
especially my boys.

1723
01:32:43,400 --> 01:32:46,100
So it was always a party at the
Sanders house.

1724
01:32:46,100 --> 01:32:49,800
I made my boys sit down, and go
through with me, Washington's

1725
01:32:50,000 --> 01:32:52,600
rules for gentlemen, and Diesel
Behavior.

1726
01:32:52,800 --> 01:33:00,100
We went through that.
We did those to my boy started

1727
01:33:00,100 --> 01:33:04,500
dating and like, they're like
culture shock.

1728
01:33:04,700 --> 01:33:07,400
Yeah, because you know, they're
getting up when she comes to the

1729
01:33:07,400 --> 01:33:10,800
table after she's left, and
they're pulling out the chairs

1730
01:33:10,800 --> 01:33:13,600
and, you know, they're watching
how they sit and how they

1731
01:33:13,600 --> 01:33:17,000
conduct themselves.
And so yeah, no, it was

1732
01:33:17,000 --> 01:33:22,300
interesting to watch them just
wither and pain as we were going

1733
01:33:22,300 --> 01:33:25,900
through those right.
Then all of a sudden it pays off

1734
01:33:25,900 --> 01:33:26,900
inside.
Yes.

1735
01:33:27,500 --> 01:33:29,000
And that's like the old man had
something.

1736
01:33:29,000 --> 01:33:33,900
Didn't I say we just have to
communicate to our kids.

1737
01:33:33,900 --> 01:33:35,300
The why Right.
You know?

1738
01:33:35,300 --> 01:33:36,900
And that was, that was the one
of the other things.

1739
01:33:36,900 --> 01:33:41,100
I was just thinking about this.
Actually, I was going to bring

1740
01:33:41,100 --> 01:33:44,000
this a, I teach gospel Doctrine.
So I was actually kind of like

1741
01:33:44,000 --> 01:33:49,200
this into my lesson but like, in
a home too, often parents are

1742
01:33:49,200 --> 01:33:52,600
like, well, this is the rule and
and it's because I said and this

1743
01:33:52,600 --> 01:33:55,300
is what we do and because
otherwise you're stupid or

1744
01:33:55,300 --> 01:33:57,900
whatever, and but it works a lot
better.

1745
01:33:57,900 --> 01:34:01,200
If you sit down and you say,
okay, and you rule, we have, can

1746
01:34:01,200 --> 01:34:04,300
you back it up with scripture?
So that was, that was a phrase

1747
01:34:04,300 --> 01:34:07,400
that We kids would use on each
other or even like with our mom

1748
01:34:07,400 --> 01:34:10,400
and dad, like, wait, can you
back that up with scripture?

1749
01:34:10,400 --> 01:34:13,000
Like, you know, because they'd
be like, well, God is the one

1750
01:34:13,000 --> 01:34:15,400
that's running this house.
The parents have to submit to

1751
01:34:15,407 --> 01:34:19,300
God, just like the children are
being taught to submit an honor,

1752
01:34:20,100 --> 01:34:21,500
but God is the one that sets the
rules.

1753
01:34:21,500 --> 01:34:23,500
So music, we listen to the
movies.

1754
01:34:23,500 --> 01:34:25,900
It needs to go back to
scriptural principles and

1755
01:34:25,900 --> 01:34:29,200
scriptural standards.
So now some of my friends and I

1756
01:34:29,200 --> 01:34:31,300
use that with each other, in
fact, it gets used against me

1757
01:34:31,300 --> 01:34:35,200
quite often when I say, I'll say
something and my And when my

1758
01:34:35,200 --> 01:34:38,800
friends, we like, can you back
that up with a scripture me a

1759
01:34:38,800 --> 01:34:47,200
minute and I will.
So how how do we combat this

1760
01:34:47,200 --> 01:34:48,500
this?
And I'm sorry.

1761
01:34:48,500 --> 01:34:52,200
I'm taking it back to to the
rewriting more back to realtalk.

1762
01:34:52,600 --> 01:34:56,100
Yeah.
How do we combat that?

1763
01:34:56,400 --> 01:35:02,700
Because look a lot of us don't
have time to sit down and start

1764
01:35:02,700 --> 01:35:04,500
pouring through old journals,
right?

1765
01:35:05,100 --> 01:35:08,500
Yes, the other thing that's the
first part.

1766
01:35:08,500 --> 01:35:12,400
How do we get involved that way?
How do we make meaningful

1767
01:35:12,400 --> 01:35:17,900
contributions to correct?
The narrative next, how do you

1768
01:35:17,900 --> 01:35:22,900
fight the this new narrative?
When the the perpetrators of

1769
01:35:22,900 --> 01:35:28,700
that new narrative are college
professors men with phds?

1770
01:35:29,500 --> 01:35:32,700
How do you fight that battle?
When they look at you and say

1771
01:35:33,500 --> 01:35:36,000
you don't have a degree?
In history, you don't know how

1772
01:35:36,000 --> 01:35:41,000
to do real research, how you can
how those two questions are,

1773
01:35:41,000 --> 01:35:44,400
weighing heavy on my mind.
Okay, both of those are really

1774
01:35:44,400 --> 01:35:50,100
good questions.
Okay, so the first one I think

1775
01:35:50,100 --> 01:35:54,700
the real answer is that you have
to get down on your knees and

1776
01:35:54,700 --> 01:35:59,900
you have to ask God what your
part is and every person's part

1777
01:35:59,900 --> 01:36:02,800
is needed, you know, people can
look at what we're doing the

1778
01:36:02,800 --> 01:36:04,900
Joseph Smith Foundation to be
like, oh my goodness, that's so

1779
01:36:04,900 --> 01:36:06,100
amazing.
I could never do something like

1780
01:36:06,100 --> 01:36:08,700
that.
Know your part is just as

1781
01:36:08,700 --> 01:36:11,900
important even if you're not
writing a book or making a

1782
01:36:11,907 --> 01:36:16,100
documentary or something even
just sharing it or learning your

1783
01:36:16,100 --> 01:36:19,400
piece or you know, whatever it
might be, whatever your gifts or

1784
01:36:19,500 --> 01:36:21,000
Sorry.
I mean right here you have a

1785
01:36:21,008 --> 01:36:24,900
podcast other people, it might
be just teaching their friends

1786
01:36:24,900 --> 01:36:29,400
in their Co-op if they
homeschool for other people.

1787
01:36:29,900 --> 01:36:32,600
Even if their kids are going to
public school and maybe sitting

1788
01:36:32,600 --> 01:36:35,300
down and saying, okay, we're
just going to start watching

1789
01:36:35,300 --> 01:36:37,600
good movies with her kids.
That's one of the reasons we did

1790
01:36:37,600 --> 01:36:41,700
Sian tube on our website so it's
a movie database of every good

1791
01:36:41,700 --> 01:36:44,100
movie.
We could find and I think we

1792
01:36:44,100 --> 01:36:48,900
have like four to five hundred
movies on there that are very

1793
01:36:48,900 --> 01:36:50,800
clean.
Like especially by today's

1794
01:36:50,800 --> 01:36:53,400
standards exceptionally clean
and actually teach good

1795
01:36:53,400 --> 01:36:55,800
principles, sit down, watch
these there's movies that teach

1796
01:36:55,800 --> 01:36:59,600
the history behind communist,
Russia stories of persecuted

1797
01:36:59,600 --> 01:37:02,200
Christians.
Those stories will inspire your

1798
01:37:02,200 --> 01:37:06,200
kids and they'll create
testimonies that can't be shaken

1799
01:37:06,200 --> 01:37:08,900
because they'll start
understanding history from the

1800
01:37:08,900 --> 01:37:11,600
right perspective and and the
character will come with it.

1801
01:37:11,600 --> 01:37:14,600
But don't your question like,
what can people do?

1802
01:37:14,600 --> 01:37:16,100
Because they don't have time to
go through all the journals?

1803
01:37:16,600 --> 01:37:19,200
Well, one, that's why we're
trying to do what we're doing.

1804
01:37:19,500 --> 01:37:22,200
We're, that's, that's the whole
goal behind the Joseph Smith

1805
01:37:22,200 --> 01:37:25,000
Foundation is, we're trying to
take mounds of archives of

1806
01:37:25,000 --> 01:37:27,900
libraries of, research, and
Consolidated to say, okay.

1807
01:37:28,200 --> 01:37:30,500
Here's a book on Helen Mark,
Kimball you can just read this

1808
01:37:30,500 --> 01:37:32,900
book.
Here's these books on the faith

1809
01:37:32,900 --> 01:37:34,100
crisis.
You can understand the

1810
01:37:34,100 --> 01:37:36,100
difference between traditional
and Progressive.

1811
01:37:36,100 --> 01:37:39,000
Here's this documentary on
Temple symbolism.

1812
01:37:39,000 --> 01:37:41,000
So, you can understand the
compass, and the square.

1813
01:37:41,000 --> 01:37:43,100
And all these symbols that
Joseph Smith restored.

1814
01:37:43,700 --> 01:37:50,900
And and also if you're feeling
like You need to do something.

1815
01:37:54,200 --> 01:37:57,100
You have to get down on your
knees and you have to ask God

1816
01:37:57,400 --> 01:38:00,400
and you have to be sincere and
willing to follow through on the

1817
01:38:00,400 --> 01:38:04,800
answer, you know, you have to be
willing to follow the direction

1818
01:38:04,800 --> 01:38:08,700
but if you do I can promise you
like God will open doors to do

1819
01:38:08,700 --> 01:38:11,300
things.
You never dreamed possible, my

1820
01:38:11,300 --> 01:38:15,300
dad started this.
When I was 10 he ended up having

1821
01:38:15,300 --> 01:38:19,300
ten kids on had helped
challenges.

1822
01:38:19,300 --> 01:38:21,700
He was trying to work full time
most of his life.

1823
01:38:22,500 --> 01:38:25,300
Out of other family issues were
like, pretty much.

1824
01:38:25,300 --> 01:38:30,000
We're like every other family
out there, we've gone through a

1825
01:38:30,000 --> 01:38:34,100
lot.
But you know what, just trying

1826
01:38:34,100 --> 01:38:37,000
to do the right thing and being
open to God's leading, led to

1827
01:38:37,000 --> 01:38:39,900
miracles to being able to
accomplish all this and it would

1828
01:38:39,900 --> 01:38:41,800
never have been possible without
his help.

1829
01:38:41,800 --> 01:38:44,800
There is no way.
We could have done any of these

1830
01:38:44,800 --> 01:38:47,300
books or these documentaries on
our own strength.

1831
01:38:47,300 --> 01:38:50,100
And so, so if we will have
faith, if will sit down and say,

1832
01:38:50,100 --> 01:38:54,400
okay, God, we believe that you
can help us turn this Titanic

1833
01:38:54,400 --> 01:38:57,700
around.
We can do this, we have to do

1834
01:38:57,700 --> 01:38:59,900
this.
If we don't do this, we're not

1835
01:39:00,500 --> 01:39:03,200
building Zion, right?
We're going to build design

1836
01:39:03,300 --> 01:39:04,400
period.
We're going to.

1837
01:39:05,200 --> 01:39:08,800
So how do we do that?
What's my piece, what do I do?

1838
01:39:08,800 --> 01:39:10,700
And God will open the way to do
that.

1839
01:39:11,200 --> 01:39:14,200
And second question, you're
gonna have to remind me.

1840
01:39:14,200 --> 01:39:19,300
What about how do you, how do
you combat this idea that you're

1841
01:39:19,300 --> 01:39:21,300
not a college trying to
Professor?

1842
01:39:21,300 --> 01:39:25,500
You don't have a PhD.
In history, you haven't seen the

1843
01:39:25,500 --> 01:39:27,700
things I've seen how you combat
that.

1844
01:39:28,000 --> 01:39:31,800
I think the best thing is
teaching your kids how to go get

1845
01:39:31,800 --> 01:39:36,800
the answers themselves.
So instead of relying on Mom or

1846
01:39:36,800 --> 01:39:39,600
relying on Dad, teach them.
Okay, here you go to the

1847
01:39:39,600 --> 01:39:41,600
research.
You, here's the sources.

1848
01:39:41,600 --> 01:39:43,900
And that's one of the reasons
like, even in our faith crisis

1849
01:39:43,900 --> 01:39:47,200
books, or the serious impairment
them, or any of them, we put the

1850
01:39:47,200 --> 01:39:49,900
footnotes right at the bottom of
the page because we were like,

1851
01:39:49,900 --> 01:39:52,200
instead of making you go dig for
them in the back.

1852
01:39:52,400 --> 01:39:59,100
I hate when people do that eyes
right there at the page you will

1853
01:39:59,100 --> 01:40:01,100
look it up.
You can go find it.

1854
01:40:01,200 --> 01:40:03,500
Go check it out for yourself.
Don't believe, don't take

1855
01:40:03,500 --> 01:40:07,800
anything we're saying for
granted but so I did my first

1856
01:40:07,800 --> 01:40:13,100
research project when I was 13
and it was working on helping

1857
01:40:13,100 --> 01:40:15,800
pull together every known
statement.

1858
01:40:15,800 --> 01:40:19,000
From a president of the church
on creation science of

1859
01:40:19,000 --> 01:40:22,900
evolution, Darwinism Adam Eve
anything to do with Hold the

1860
01:40:22,900 --> 01:40:26,100
bait and to pull it together in
one collection.

1861
01:40:26,100 --> 01:40:28,000
So that's what we have on the
Judgment Foundation.

1862
01:40:28,000 --> 01:40:31,600
It's the only place.
I know of that has every known

1863
01:40:31,600 --> 01:40:35,300
statement by present the church
on the whole science debate

1864
01:40:35,300 --> 01:40:38,000
organized formatted so people
can actually find it.

1865
01:40:38,600 --> 01:40:43,000
I did that when I was 13 and you
know what, it taught me, it was

1866
01:40:43,000 --> 01:40:45,000
because we did it for our
school, right?

1867
01:40:45,000 --> 01:40:49,400
And so, my dad's like forget the
stupid worksheets like you don't

1868
01:40:49,400 --> 01:40:51,100
care about them.
Do you care about are doing

1869
01:40:51,100 --> 01:40:51,600
them?
Hannah?

1870
01:40:51,700 --> 01:40:53,100
No.
Do you want to do them?

1871
01:40:53,100 --> 01:40:56,300
No, I don't want you to like
let's do something valuable.

1872
01:40:57,500 --> 01:40:59,600
So that was kind of exciting
because I've been kid wants to

1873
01:40:59,608 --> 01:41:01,700
feel like they're doing
something real.

1874
01:41:01,700 --> 01:41:04,000
You know.
You don't want to feel like this

1875
01:41:04,000 --> 01:41:08,100
is important and this matters
and but not only that but it

1876
01:41:08,100 --> 01:41:09,800
taught me.
I know how to go look this stuff

1877
01:41:09,800 --> 01:41:11,800
up.
So if I'm wondering about

1878
01:41:11,800 --> 01:41:15,600
something even something that I
remember taking a speech and

1879
01:41:15,600 --> 01:41:18,400
debate class and there were a
bunch of kids that were making

1880
01:41:18,400 --> 01:41:21,500
some comments about politics.
I think it was that was during

1881
01:41:21,500 --> 01:41:23,500
the whole debate.
Obama and everything, I don't

1882
01:41:23,500 --> 01:41:25,500
even remember.
But anyways, so they're debating

1883
01:41:25,500 --> 01:41:28,000
something and I was like, I'm
gonna go look that up because I

1884
01:41:28,000 --> 01:41:29,700
don't, I'm not even going to
take what they're saying for

1885
01:41:29,700 --> 01:41:31,000
granted, but I knew how to go
look that up.

1886
01:41:31,000 --> 01:41:36,300
And so when you teach it, helps
kids see that this isn't rocket

1887
01:41:36,300 --> 01:41:38,200
science, right?
Right.

1888
01:41:38,200 --> 01:41:41,600
So we get scared and intimidated
by degrees but when you realize

1889
01:41:41,600 --> 01:41:44,000
you can go look that up just
like that scholar.

1890
01:41:44,000 --> 01:41:45,600
Can you can go?
Look at that research paper.

1891
01:41:45,600 --> 01:41:49,600
You you have a brain.
You figure this out.

1892
01:41:49,600 --> 01:41:52,500
This actually isn't complicated.
Rocket science is Is

1893
01:41:52,500 --> 01:41:54,700
complicated.
I have an uncle.

1894
01:41:54,700 --> 01:41:57,000
That two uncles.
That that do that.

1895
01:41:57,100 --> 01:41:59,800
It's complicated.
I don't understand.

1896
01:41:59,800 --> 01:42:03,300
Half the things they're saying
most of the time, but this is

1897
01:42:03,300 --> 01:42:06,600
not history is not.
We can talk about this.

1898
01:42:06,600 --> 01:42:08,500
We can we can, you can
understand it.

1899
01:42:08,500 --> 01:42:12,600
And I think just even talking to
your kids that way instead of

1900
01:42:12,600 --> 01:42:15,000
like, well, you're a kid.
No, you're intelligent.

1901
01:42:15,000 --> 01:42:18,600
You're, you're becoming an adult
yet. 12 13, 14.

1902
01:42:18,600 --> 01:42:20,200
I'm going to talk to you.
Like, you are an adult.

1903
01:42:20,200 --> 01:42:22,000
You can figure this out.
Let's go figure this out

1904
01:42:22,000 --> 01:42:25,400
together.
There's kids will respond to

1905
01:42:25,400 --> 01:42:27,400
that.
I think we have to realize like

1906
01:42:27,600 --> 01:42:31,700
God is sending down.
We've been told over and over.

1907
01:42:31,800 --> 01:42:34,100
Oh, these are some of the
greatest spirits to come down to

1908
01:42:34,100 --> 01:42:37,400
the Earth are coming down at
this time, yet, we're losing

1909
01:42:37,400 --> 01:42:40,700
more than we've ever lost.
Think people should think about

1910
01:42:40,700 --> 01:42:45,200
that.
It's not the kids, fault, our

1911
01:42:45,200 --> 01:42:48,100
kids will respond, if we teach
them truth.

1912
01:42:48,100 --> 01:42:50,700
And that was something else,
that my dad was always big on.

1913
01:42:50,800 --> 01:42:54,400
And he was always like, we need
to use scriptural terms and

1914
01:42:54,400 --> 01:42:57,200
scriptural words because that's
what the kids will respond to

1915
01:42:57,200 --> 01:42:59,900
you, because that's the language
that they heard in the previous.

1916
01:43:00,100 --> 01:43:02,300
A life right?
Right.

1917
01:43:02,300 --> 01:43:08,400
Yeah, he didn't hear
psychological words, they heard

1918
01:43:08,400 --> 01:43:11,500
scripture, that's they heard the
voice of God.

1919
01:43:11,500 --> 01:43:14,800
So if we'll use those words and
we'll use that terminology

1920
01:43:14,800 --> 01:43:17,000
terminology their spirits will
respond and there's going to be

1921
01:43:17,000 --> 01:43:22,700
a few lemons and limes meals.
Got it seen, it lived it, you

1922
01:43:22,700 --> 01:43:23,500
know.
Sure.

1923
01:43:23,600 --> 01:43:27,500
But our kids for the most part
are good kids and they're being

1924
01:43:27,500 --> 01:43:29,900
sent down at this time for this
fight.

1925
01:43:30,000 --> 01:43:33,900
So help them discover what their
places, and I have seen that

1926
01:43:33,900 --> 01:43:38,300
change Hearts, honestly, myself
and my siblings, every single

1927
01:43:38,300 --> 01:43:40,500
one of us went through different
conversion processes in

1928
01:43:40,500 --> 01:43:43,300
completely different ways.
Some of us took longer than

1929
01:43:43,300 --> 01:43:48,000
others, some of us struggled in
different ways, but ultimately,

1930
01:43:48,000 --> 01:43:52,900
most of us got that testimony
and the gospel Works.

1931
01:43:52,900 --> 01:43:55,200
We've got to have faith that it
works.

1932
01:43:55,200 --> 01:44:00,200
And we've got to have faith that
if we speak to our kids and And

1933
01:44:00,200 --> 01:44:02,800
the Lord helps us do that and we
hope communicate to them and

1934
01:44:02,800 --> 01:44:03,500
see.
Okay.

1935
01:44:03,500 --> 01:44:06,500
You can do this that the kids
will respond.

1936
01:44:06,600 --> 01:44:08,600
I don't know if that helps.
Absolutely.

1937
01:44:08,900 --> 01:44:13,300
I think you hit on a really
important point and that was

1938
01:44:13,900 --> 01:44:16,600
kind of start treating your
kids, an adult when they get to

1939
01:44:16,600 --> 01:44:18,800
that 12 or 13 year old State.
Yes.

1940
01:44:18,800 --> 01:44:23,000
I think we tend to look at our
kids and like he's just a kid or

1941
01:44:23,000 --> 01:44:28,000
she's just a kid.
But it wasn't that long ago that

1942
01:44:28,000 --> 01:44:31,700
by six Washington was Fairfax
County.

1943
01:44:31,700 --> 01:44:38,200
Virginia surveyor, right a
surveyor at 16 years old, right?

1944
01:44:38,200 --> 01:44:42,000
So he's traipsing across the
Wilderness dragging a chain and

1945
01:44:42,000 --> 01:44:43,400
a theodolite.
Hmm.

1946
01:44:45,000 --> 01:44:47,200
To map it.
Yes, right.

1947
01:44:47,400 --> 01:44:51,000
I have found on the times, I
have been a good dad.

1948
01:44:51,400 --> 01:44:53,200
I have found that my kids will
respond.

1949
01:44:53,200 --> 01:44:57,600
When I tell my expect right and
too often, I think that their

1950
01:44:57,600 --> 01:45:02,600
lack of achievement is more a
reflection of a dad who didn't

1951
01:45:02,600 --> 01:45:06,400
expect enough and didn't help
them Reach those expectations

1952
01:45:07,600 --> 01:45:10,800
that's been my experience and so
don't don't sell your kids

1953
01:45:10,800 --> 01:45:13,500
short.
I mean, they're way more

1954
01:45:13,500 --> 01:45:16,700
intelligent than we give Credit
for they pick up a lot more than

1955
01:45:16,700 --> 01:45:20,400
we give them credit for and I
think helping them see that they

1956
01:45:20,400 --> 01:45:22,800
can achieve more if they use the
Lord's help.

1957
01:45:22,800 --> 01:45:25,600
Hmm.
Like I'm going to say everything

1958
01:45:25,600 --> 01:45:27,300
I've done in my life.
None of it would have been

1959
01:45:27,300 --> 01:45:29,800
possible without the Lord's help
period.

1960
01:45:29,800 --> 01:45:30,700
Yeah.
I don't care.

1961
01:45:31,200 --> 01:45:35,200
And we would always laugh about
that as siblings and because so

1962
01:45:35,200 --> 01:45:38,400
I was, I was 18 when we released
our first documentary.

1963
01:45:38,400 --> 01:45:41,700
So so we're basically teenagers
when we're sitting together at

1964
01:45:41,700 --> 01:45:44,300
these Expo tables and my dad
would have us run the Expo.

1965
01:45:44,600 --> 01:45:46,800
Well, you know, it was all the
products, you talk to the

1966
01:45:46,800 --> 01:45:50,500
customers, right?
You help do it and and people

1967
01:45:50,500 --> 01:45:52,800
would come up sometimes and
they'd be like, wow, like you

1968
01:45:52,800 --> 01:45:56,100
guys must be so talented and we
would always laugh because we

1969
01:45:56,100 --> 01:45:59,100
feel like, are you kidding me?
If you see the behind-the-scenes

1970
01:45:59,500 --> 01:46:04,100
of us in our pajamas, trying to
figure out how to work some

1971
01:46:04,100 --> 01:46:05,300
days.
It was a disaster.

1972
01:46:05,700 --> 01:46:13,100
So but seeing those Miracles and
and honestly as a child being

1973
01:46:13,100 --> 01:46:15,800
pushed to get down on my knees,
Pray and say God, I don't know

1974
01:46:15,800 --> 01:46:18,400
how to do this, right?
I don't know how to write a

1975
01:46:18,407 --> 01:46:21,000
book.
I don't know how to do research.

1976
01:46:21,000 --> 01:46:23,400
I don't know how to find this.
Can you help me?

1977
01:46:23,800 --> 01:46:28,400
And then getting ideas?
Teaches kids like God is real

1978
01:46:28,900 --> 01:46:33,300
and you can do this Nephi was
very young when he did what he

1979
01:46:33,300 --> 01:46:35,300
did, but he absolutely could
have done it without the Lord's

1980
01:46:35,300 --> 01:46:37,000
help.
And so again, it just makes the

1981
01:46:37,000 --> 01:46:39,400
kids.
Okay instead of reading about

1982
01:46:39,400 --> 01:46:41,300
the scriptures, let's live the
scriptures.

1983
01:46:41,400 --> 01:46:43,500
Let's be like them and it is
possible.

1984
01:46:43,500 --> 01:46:46,300
It's not just like, oh no one
could ever be like Nephi, why

1985
01:46:46,300 --> 01:46:49,600
not?
He was a guy to he was lamented

1986
01:46:49,600 --> 01:46:54,000
about his own, shortcomings and
filling em, you know, the psalm

1987
01:46:54,000 --> 01:46:59,700
of Nephi, right?
I Sometimes, and we look at

1988
01:47:00,000 --> 01:47:02,400
these Heroes and for some
reason, we want to turn them

1989
01:47:02,400 --> 01:47:06,400
into marble, rather than see who
they are.

1990
01:47:06,900 --> 01:47:08,800
We want to see them as real
people, right?

1991
01:47:08,800 --> 01:47:11,600
So, this is okay, I'm glad you
brought this up because this is

1992
01:47:11,600 --> 01:47:13,500
a big.
So progressives are always going

1993
01:47:13,500 --> 01:47:15,800
to be like, oh, I want to see
you, like the floss.

1994
01:47:15,800 --> 01:47:18,000
We gotta pull Joseph Smith off
his pedestal.

1995
01:47:18,000 --> 01:47:19,700
That's what they always say
right?

1996
01:47:20,100 --> 01:47:27,300
And and it's So that the
adversary always uses pieces of

1997
01:47:27,300 --> 01:47:33,000
Truth mixer with a lie, right?
So the true aspect of it is we

1998
01:47:33,000 --> 01:47:35,600
need to see them as people,
right?

1999
01:47:35,600 --> 01:47:38,000
I want instead of just hearing
oh, Helen Mark Hamill got a

2000
01:47:38,000 --> 01:47:42,200
testimony and live the gospel.
Like I want to know what it was

2001
01:47:42,200 --> 01:47:44,200
really like when she lost her
kids.

2002
01:47:44,600 --> 01:47:46,900
I want to know what it was like
when she buried her baby and

2003
01:47:46,900 --> 01:47:48,800
winter quarters as a Teenage
mother.

2004
01:47:49,200 --> 01:47:53,800
You know I want to know what it
was like when she struggled and

2005
01:47:53,900 --> 01:47:56,200
She doubted, I want to know what
it was like.

2006
01:47:56,200 --> 01:48:01,600
I remember I was working on the
Seer Stone, Beerman, thummim

2007
01:48:01,600 --> 01:48:05,100
book, which is on a translation
of the Book of Mormon at the

2008
01:48:05,100 --> 01:48:08,100
same age that Joseph Smith was
when he was translating The Book

2009
01:48:08,100 --> 01:48:10,100
of Mormon.
And I remember thinking about

2010
01:48:10,100 --> 01:48:12,300
that as I was writing the
manuscript because that's like,

2011
01:48:12,300 --> 01:48:15,600
what I'm doing is easy compared
to what he was doing so easy.

2012
01:48:15,600 --> 01:48:19,900
I don't know how you did that,
but um, but it just, it gave me

2013
01:48:19,900 --> 01:48:23,500
insight as I was studying the
translation in how he did it.

2014
01:48:23,800 --> 01:48:26,400
Spiritual experiences, he was
having and we go into that in

2015
01:48:26,400 --> 01:48:27,600
the translation of the Book of
Mormon.

2016
01:48:27,900 --> 01:48:31,600
It was a translation, Joseph
Smith was learning the language.

2017
01:48:31,700 --> 01:48:33,600
He was having visions of the
culture.

2018
01:48:33,900 --> 01:48:37,600
It wasn't just a dictation, he's
Prophet Seer and Revelator, not

2019
01:48:37,600 --> 01:48:39,500
a prophet Seer and reader,
right?

2020
01:48:40,700 --> 01:48:44,600
And any talks about Nephi's
coming to him and Mormon Moroni

2021
01:48:44,600 --> 01:48:47,700
and their explain their culture,
he's seeing their mode of

2022
01:48:47,700 --> 01:48:53,100
travel, he's doing a translation
and and and so it was just

2023
01:48:53,100 --> 01:48:56,200
fascinating.
See, come to see him as a real

2024
01:48:56,600 --> 01:49:03,200
person with real thoughts and
struggles with pain, feels real

2025
01:49:03,200 --> 01:49:05,700
emotions.
And then at the same time,

2026
01:49:05,700 --> 01:49:09,600
though, understand.
I think we do need Heroes.

2027
01:49:09,600 --> 01:49:12,900
So in our culture today we are
devoid of Heroes because

2028
01:49:12,900 --> 01:49:16,000
everybody wants to just say it's
okay to be mediocre or just

2029
01:49:16,000 --> 01:49:19,400
going to tear everyone down.
Instead of realizing there are

2030
01:49:19,400 --> 01:49:21,900
people like Joseph Smith that
didn't give in, right?

2031
01:49:21,900 --> 01:49:25,200
So you don't have to give any
other There's people like Helen

2032
01:49:25,200 --> 01:49:26,700
Mark.
Kimball that struggled.

2033
01:49:27,400 --> 01:49:32,500
She was not the same caliber as
analyzer snow but her story

2034
01:49:32,500 --> 01:49:37,100
needs to be told because people
are going to I'm not anyway, the

2035
01:49:37,100 --> 01:49:40,300
caliber of any of them, so all
of them but they show me

2036
01:49:40,300 --> 01:49:43,700
different examples of kala-azar
snow is, here's her character

2037
01:49:43,700 --> 01:49:46,100
status here, telling Mark
Kimball so you can see what they

2038
01:49:46,100 --> 01:49:47,800
really went through.
But at the same time route

2039
01:49:47,800 --> 01:49:50,200
Rising, we don't need a teardown
Heroes.

2040
01:49:50,200 --> 01:49:51,400
We just want to see the real
history.

2041
01:49:51,400 --> 01:49:52,500
I hope.
Does that make sense?

2042
01:49:52,500 --> 01:49:58,500
That makes it okay son.
Because I don't one of the

2043
01:49:58,500 --> 01:50:02,200
things I love about reading the
scriptures is that oftentimes

2044
01:50:02,200 --> 01:50:04,000
the humanity comes through?
Hmm.

2045
01:50:04,800 --> 01:50:09,300
I think of Peter right one
moment.

2046
01:50:09,300 --> 01:50:12,800
He's like oh no there's no way
they're getting to Jesus we're

2047
01:50:12,800 --> 01:50:14,600
going to pick up sword for and
go town.

2048
01:50:14,800 --> 01:50:18,300
I'll never deny you and then 30
minutes later as I do.

2049
01:50:18,300 --> 01:50:21,100
Yes, I've never seen the man
before in my life.

2050
01:50:22,600 --> 01:50:27,000
It's seen that That right?
And then understanding look at

2051
01:50:27,000 --> 01:50:31,300
what he did after that.
And this is how to get there and

2052
01:50:31,300 --> 01:50:35,100
he and that will map our way of
getting there, right?

2053
01:50:35,200 --> 01:50:39,900
And and so yeah, I think, I
think that is the same with the

2054
01:50:39,900 --> 01:50:41,400
sons of mosiah, right?
Okay.

2055
01:50:41,400 --> 01:50:43,300
When they turned this is how
they turned this, how they

2056
01:50:43,300 --> 01:50:46,200
repaired, this is, this is where
they got and that's possible.

2057
01:50:46,500 --> 01:50:47,900
Right?
Absolutely.

2058
01:50:48,200 --> 01:50:50,800
Absolutely.
What do you think keeps people

2059
01:50:50,800 --> 01:50:54,900
from engaging?
Because I think everybody knows

2060
01:50:54,900 --> 01:50:58,000
right on some level there's
something and everybody.

2061
01:50:58,300 --> 01:51:02,800
Mmm, if you get them alone and
you talk to him, everybody knows

2062
01:51:03,800 --> 01:51:05,000
something's not.
Right?

2063
01:51:05,100 --> 01:51:07,800
Hmm.
And even those who understand

2064
01:51:07,800 --> 01:51:09,100
what's not right?
Yeah.

2065
01:51:10,000 --> 01:51:12,200
Don't necessarily engage in the
fight.

2066
01:51:12,200 --> 01:51:16,100
Yes, what most of them don't,
what what keeps people out of it

2067
01:51:16,100 --> 01:51:19,000
in your opinion.
Okay, so every person is

2068
01:51:19,000 --> 01:51:23,900
different.
Um, There is an aspect that.

2069
01:51:23,900 --> 01:51:30,400
Okay, so we just released a
couple weeks ago, a music

2070
01:51:30,400 --> 01:51:31,900
Fireside.
It's free on YouTube, it's

2071
01:51:31,900 --> 01:51:35,400
called discover music.
So my dad would do music

2072
01:51:35,400 --> 01:51:38,800
firesides just talking about the
impact of rock music and culture

2073
01:51:38,800 --> 01:51:41,800
and really breaking it down to
talking about how to analyze

2074
01:51:41,800 --> 01:51:43,900
music in the emotion behind it
and everything.

2075
01:51:43,900 --> 01:51:48,600
And I do believe that our
culture plays a big part in just

2076
01:51:48,600 --> 01:51:54,400
deadening people And introducing
apathy and I think a lot of that

2077
01:51:54,400 --> 01:51:57,000
is connected to the music of the
movies and I say that because I

2078
01:51:57,008 --> 01:52:01,200
have seen over and over and over
when someone started purging out

2079
01:52:01,900 --> 01:52:05,300
and and just raising those
standards they come alive, I

2080
01:52:05,308 --> 01:52:09,200
have literally seen kids that
were dead teenage boys, that

2081
01:52:09,200 --> 01:52:12,400
were so apathetic they were in
full Rebellion with their

2082
01:52:12,400 --> 01:52:15,200
parents and they cleaned up
their music and their movies and

2083
01:52:15,200 --> 01:52:19,500
they became your diff completely
different people, you know.

2084
01:52:19,900 --> 01:52:23,400
So there's an aspect of
understanding adding if you're

2085
01:52:23,400 --> 01:52:27,000
trying to do this with your kids
and trying to engage them and

2086
01:52:27,000 --> 01:52:30,500
you try to do it with the
Babylonian culture and you try

2087
01:52:30,500 --> 01:52:33,300
to keep the music in the movies
and try to do it too, you're

2088
01:52:33,308 --> 01:52:35,000
going to lose.
I'm just going to.

2089
01:52:35,000 --> 01:52:36,500
If you're going to try to
compete with the world, you're

2090
01:52:36,500 --> 01:52:39,500
never going to the world, is
always going to be more cool and

2091
01:52:39,500 --> 01:52:42,700
it's going to be more fun.
So that is something I would

2092
01:52:42,700 --> 01:52:46,700
just if anyone's interested,
they can look into that and

2093
01:52:46,700 --> 01:52:50,700
because it's pretty fascinating.
Another layer is, I do think

2094
01:52:50,700 --> 01:52:56,000
sometimes people feel Because
they say, well I can't take

2095
01:52:56,000 --> 01:52:59,700
Richard Bushman on.
When we in 2016, we've published

2096
01:52:59,700 --> 01:53:03,500
a Blog article on our lbs.
Answers website, challenging

2097
01:53:03,500 --> 01:53:05,200
rough, Stone Rolling, and
Progressive Scholars.

2098
01:53:05,200 --> 01:53:10,100
This was before we wrote any of
our books and that was the first

2099
01:53:10,100 --> 01:53:12,000
time.
Anyone had officially

2100
01:53:12,000 --> 01:53:16,400
challenged, the new narrative
like out there just said, guys

2101
01:53:16,400 --> 01:53:21,000
this is nonsense.
We're taking this on and and and

2102
01:53:21,000 --> 01:53:23,800
I saw people online They were
like what in the world who are

2103
01:53:23,800 --> 01:53:26,900
these people think they aren't,
you know?

2104
01:53:27,200 --> 01:53:29,300
And I think because people were
scared they're like well who

2105
01:53:29,300 --> 01:53:32,000
would take Richard Bushman on
like he's got a million degrees

2106
01:53:32,000 --> 01:53:34,900
write his biography?
I mean look at it.

2107
01:53:34,900 --> 01:53:38,600
It's huge and thick like, I
don't know that much, you know,

2108
01:53:39,300 --> 01:53:42,400
so there is an element of fear.
If there's fear to take on that

2109
01:53:42,400 --> 01:53:47,300
Goliath, there's fear to an end
and that's where faith comes in,

2110
01:53:47,900 --> 01:53:53,300
where we have to have more faith
as a people, we have to Get Down

2111
01:53:53,300 --> 01:53:55,400
On Our Knees.
We have to say, God, I'm willing

2112
01:53:55,400 --> 01:53:57,000
to do this.
What do I do?

2113
01:53:57,100 --> 01:54:00,700
I'm willing to do whatever it
takes, you know, and then the

2114
01:54:00,700 --> 01:54:02,800
other aspect is, I think people
need to understand the

2115
01:54:02,800 --> 01:54:05,500
consequences and that's where
more education comes in.

2116
01:54:05,500 --> 01:54:08,000
We need to show people why the
history matters we need to show.

2117
01:54:08,000 --> 01:54:10,300
Okay?
This is how we've gotten off in

2118
01:54:10,300 --> 01:54:12,400
our history of the nation.
Here's how we've gotten off in

2119
01:54:12,400 --> 01:54:14,700
our history of the church.
It's having consequences.

2120
01:54:15,200 --> 01:54:17,700
People are going to suffer.
If you don't get involved, not

2121
01:54:17,700 --> 01:54:18,800
something.
We gotta teach our kids.

2122
01:54:18,800 --> 01:54:21,900
Your life is not about you,
right?

2123
01:54:21,900 --> 01:54:24,400
And there's people Litter
hurting and one day, you're

2124
01:54:24,400 --> 01:54:26,500
going to face move.
Those people in the face on the

2125
01:54:26,500 --> 01:54:30,000
other side and they're either
going to say thank you.

2126
01:54:30,000 --> 01:54:33,700
You changed my life and
generations are now saved.

2127
01:54:33,700 --> 01:54:35,900
They're going to come up to you
and say you knew why didn't you

2128
01:54:35,900 --> 01:54:38,300
tell me?
Yeah, yeah.

2129
01:54:41,200 --> 01:54:48,700
I don't know how you get to this
point, but I remember when I

2130
01:54:48,700 --> 01:54:52,200
started this, right?
I don't know how to do this,

2131
01:54:52,200 --> 01:54:54,900
right?
I'm a clown with a microphone.

2132
01:54:54,900 --> 01:55:01,100
I have no business doing this,
but I remember, I remember

2133
01:55:01,100 --> 01:55:05,400
distinctly when, when I was
looking at my computer, I

2134
01:55:05,400 --> 01:55:08,300
remember I brought a new
computer home.

2135
01:55:08,300 --> 01:55:10,700
I brought microphones home and
my wife's like, what are you

2136
01:55:10,708 --> 01:55:12,100
doing?
And I told her and she said,

2137
01:55:12,100 --> 01:55:14,500
well, you can cut done stupider
things.

2138
01:55:14,500 --> 01:55:20,700
So let me know how this works
but I think As I remember

2139
01:55:20,700 --> 01:55:25,600
looking at it and understanding
that this would get personal,

2140
01:55:26,200 --> 01:55:29,100
right, that?
Yes, it, I'm going to have skin

2141
01:55:29,100 --> 01:55:31,500
in the game.
Now, I'm about to go throw my

2142
01:55:31,500 --> 01:55:35,000
voice into The Ether and confess
to everybody that I'm a Mormon

2143
01:55:35,000 --> 01:55:41,000
fundamentalist, right?
And I remember going, I don't

2144
01:55:41,000 --> 01:55:42,900
know if I want to do this,
right?

2145
01:55:42,900 --> 01:55:45,200
I mean, I'm by Nature, a pretty
private guy.

2146
01:55:45,200 --> 01:55:49,200
So to do this, that's just That
crap crazy.

2147
01:55:49,200 --> 01:55:53,500
I don't know how else to put it.
But I remember there were, there

2148
01:55:53,500 --> 01:55:56,000
were two words that came to me.
Reckless.

2149
01:55:56,000 --> 01:56:03,200
Abandon Just go all in.
Don't hold back and I know it's

2150
01:56:03,200 --> 01:56:05,000
uncomfortable.
I get it.

2151
01:56:05,100 --> 01:56:06,500
I get.
It's uncomfortable.

2152
01:56:06,800 --> 01:56:11,800
Yeah but If we're gonna win this
thing, yes, we're going to need

2153
01:56:11,800 --> 01:56:14,900
God's help and we're going to
have to go forward with.

2154
01:56:15,000 --> 01:56:17,500
Absolutely.
No fear, right?

2155
01:56:17,600 --> 01:56:22,000
Or I shouldn't say that with a
lot of Courage, your I'm scared.

2156
01:56:22,000 --> 01:56:25,400
Every time I do this, right?
I mean that's always going to be

2157
01:56:25,400 --> 01:56:29,500
there but being able to
recognize it and go ahead and do

2158
01:56:29,500 --> 01:56:30,900
it anyway.
Yeah.

2159
01:56:31,200 --> 01:56:33,600
Absolutely.
And I think, I think you have to

2160
01:56:33,600 --> 01:56:37,500
be 100% committed and you have
to know and I've had those times

2161
01:56:37,500 --> 01:56:40,300
in my life where I got down and
I like, okay, Like I need to

2162
01:56:40,300 --> 01:56:45,500
know from you.
I want to know 100% and and and

2163
01:56:45,500 --> 01:56:51,900
honestly what the only thing
that well, the two things that

2164
01:56:51,900 --> 01:56:56,300
every day, when I don't want to
do something, what drives me and

2165
01:56:56,300 --> 01:57:01,700
gives me the strength to do it
is one knowing What God wants me

2166
01:57:01,700 --> 01:57:05,700
to do, number one, you know,
having that that call that you

2167
01:57:05,700 --> 01:57:09,600
feel, or that confidence really
like okay, like God wants us to

2168
01:57:09,600 --> 01:57:12,400
defend the gospel, God wants us
to preach the gospel and this

2169
01:57:12,400 --> 01:57:19,400
you know, and but number two on
knowing that people need help.

2170
01:57:19,800 --> 01:57:25,400
Yeah, that's that is I think for
me, that's what gives me the

2171
01:57:25,400 --> 01:57:28,800
strength to keep going.
When I'm sick and I can't keep

2172
01:57:28,800 --> 01:57:32,000
going.
I-i've had Had chronic health

2173
01:57:32,000 --> 01:57:34,600
challenges, most of my life,
there's days.

2174
01:57:34,600 --> 01:57:38,900
I don't want to get out of bed,
you know, but what always has

2175
01:57:38,900 --> 01:57:42,000
helped me is thinking, okay,
there's someone out there, even

2176
01:57:42,000 --> 01:57:45,300
one person, and if one person
gets helped, it's worth it

2177
01:57:45,300 --> 01:57:48,400
because they need help in this
can change someone's life.

2178
01:57:48,400 --> 01:57:50,500
So I was talking to a friend
about this actually a week ago

2179
01:57:51,400 --> 01:57:54,800
because I said sometimes it's
really really hard and she said

2180
01:57:55,300 --> 01:58:00,700
Hannah and she said you don't
know this but you making that

2181
01:58:00,700 --> 01:58:04,500
choice changed my life and she
started telling me and she was

2182
01:58:04,500 --> 01:58:07,600
like, do you remember when you
came to my house once whatever

2183
01:58:07,600 --> 01:58:10,700
you number of years ago.
And this is who I was and this

2184
01:58:10,700 --> 01:58:14,700
is where I was and this is how I
thought and now being able

2185
01:58:16,000 --> 01:58:18,300
honestly through the scriptures
and through Joseph Smith and

2186
01:58:18,300 --> 01:58:21,300
that just opened the door to
their family making tons of

2187
01:58:21,300 --> 01:58:24,300
changes and she was like, I
wouldn't know who I was.

2188
01:58:24,300 --> 01:58:27,800
I wouldn't my life would be
completely different.

2189
01:58:27,800 --> 01:58:31,500
She said if you hadn't done
this, And that just reminded me.

2190
01:58:31,500 --> 01:58:34,500
I was like, okay, that's one
person that makes it worth it.

2191
01:58:34,500 --> 01:58:39,100
And I think we meet our culture
is so selfishly driven, but

2192
01:58:39,100 --> 01:58:41,200
we've got to raise our kids, and
we've got to teach our kids and

2193
01:58:41,200 --> 01:58:45,400
we got to remind ourselves.
You know, Jesus Christ came to

2194
01:58:45,400 --> 01:58:48,900
Earth and he laid down his life.
And that's what we're commanded

2195
01:58:48,900 --> 01:58:50,300
to do.
We were commanded to love one.

2196
01:58:50,300 --> 01:58:54,300
Another just as Christ, loved us
and if we can have that

2197
01:58:54,300 --> 01:58:57,100
perspective, if we can look in
the world, that is honestly what

2198
01:58:57,100 --> 01:58:59,500
gives me the courage to get up
and do things that scare me to

2199
01:58:59,500 --> 01:59:01,000
death.
Death is because I'm like,

2200
01:59:01,000 --> 01:59:03,900
someone needs us help and we can
do this.

2201
01:59:03,900 --> 01:59:05,600
Absolutely.
Absolutely.

2202
01:59:05,600 --> 01:59:09,600
We don't know the effect we're
going to have on somebody else.

2203
01:59:09,800 --> 01:59:12,300
We just don't, we might not ever
know in this life.

2204
01:59:12,400 --> 01:59:17,700
No, no, I remember.
I remember when I knew that I

2205
01:59:17,708 --> 01:59:20,700
was onto something doing this
and it freaked me out.

2206
01:59:20,800 --> 01:59:23,700
It freaked me out horribly.
I was in bed and I couldn't

2207
01:59:23,700 --> 01:59:26,800
sleep real well.
And this was right after under

2208
01:59:26,800 --> 01:59:32,500
the banner of Heaven came out.
And I sat down with a friend of

2209
01:59:32,500 --> 01:59:39,300
mine who was Mormon as well, and
we do have deep into all these

2210
01:59:39,300 --> 01:59:40,900
things, right?
I mean, it was a three-hour

2211
01:59:40,900 --> 01:59:45,300
podcast and we took apart blood
atonement and we we talked about

2212
01:59:45,300 --> 01:59:47,600
it and we, you know, what was
Brigham saying and what was the

2213
01:59:47,600 --> 01:59:55,000
context and I got a message at
about 2:30 in the morning.

2214
01:59:55,800 --> 01:59:58,200
And I don't know why I was
awake.

2215
01:59:58,600 --> 02:00:01,200
I had to get up early the next
morning but for whatever reason,

2216
02:00:01,200 --> 02:00:06,000
it woke me up and I looked at it
and it was someone who was

2217
02:00:06,000 --> 02:00:09,000
saying me and my husband watched
that.

2218
02:00:09,000 --> 02:00:13,500
And we were we hadn't been to
church in two weeks because we

2219
02:00:13,500 --> 02:00:16,300
were freaked out because we
didn't know what we'd signed up

2220
02:00:16,300 --> 02:00:19,400
for.
That's what's important right?

2221
02:00:19,500 --> 02:00:22,100
And and we we're never going to
see.

2222
02:00:22,100 --> 02:00:23,700
We're never going to understand
here.

2223
02:00:24,400 --> 02:00:25,400
Yeah.
How it is.

2224
02:00:25,600 --> 02:00:30,000
That what we do?
Send ripples into eternity but

2225
02:00:30,000 --> 02:00:33,600
it does, it does.
And if there's one thing that's

2226
02:00:33,600 --> 02:00:39,200
been frustrating, it's been
seeing people with amazing

2227
02:00:39,200 --> 02:00:43,600
Stories who just won't engage,
right?

2228
02:00:43,600 --> 02:00:45,400
And I'm like, you got so much to
offer.

2229
02:00:45,400 --> 02:00:49,900
Yeah, yeah, you got so much to
offer, so yeah, I think you're

2230
02:00:49,900 --> 02:00:51,800
right.
Knowing that there's someone out

2231
02:00:51,800 --> 02:00:54,800
there that's going to benefit
from it, and then just put that

2232
02:00:54,800 --> 02:00:56,800
fear and just go for it.
Go for it.

2233
02:00:56,900 --> 02:00:58,200
Go for it.
Look back.

2234
02:00:58,200 --> 02:01:00,900
Don't just keep your head down
and just charge.

2235
02:01:00,900 --> 02:01:03,400
I mean to be honest like people
see what the Joseph Smith

2236
02:01:03,400 --> 02:01:08,600
Foundation is today, realize in
2005, none of that existed.

2237
02:01:09,600 --> 02:01:15,400
It was a dad and and my brother
passed away and it was kind of

2238
02:01:15,400 --> 02:01:17,100
in that process of shortly
before.

2239
02:01:17,100 --> 02:01:21,700
And after that just felt
impressed like do video because

2240
02:01:21,700 --> 02:01:24,200
like I've never touched a video
camera for kind of like you with

2241
02:01:24,200 --> 02:01:27,600
your equipment.
Like he's like I do You know,

2242
02:01:27,600 --> 02:01:29,700
anything about this?
What do you mean do video?

2243
02:01:29,700 --> 02:01:31,800
So he was looking in like do I
go to film School?

2244
02:01:31,800 --> 02:01:34,500
Figured out pretty quick.
You can't keep yourself.

2245
02:01:38,400 --> 02:01:41,600
It's so pornographic and it's so
trashy.

2246
02:01:41,600 --> 02:01:43,100
And my dad was like I'm not
going there.

2247
02:01:43,100 --> 02:01:46,300
I'm just not going there.
I'm not gonna risk that.

2248
02:01:46,800 --> 02:01:52,700
And and so he figured out ways
to buy tutorials and watch them

2249
02:01:52,700 --> 02:01:57,300
home and self-taught and had us,
learn right along.

2250
02:01:57,500 --> 02:02:03,200
And in the home and that's not
possible, people would tell you

2251
02:02:03,200 --> 02:02:05,400
that's not possible.
People would tell you, there's

2252
02:02:05,400 --> 02:02:08,400
no way someone could write books
and do this kind of research and

2253
02:02:08,400 --> 02:02:11,300
things like that.
It's not possible.

2254
02:02:11,300 --> 02:02:14,800
If you do it on your own, it go
try it and do it on your own.

2255
02:02:15,000 --> 02:02:18,800
And I'll just, you can just come
back a few years from now and

2256
02:02:18,800 --> 02:02:22,700
say.
Yep I failed you know but you've

2257
02:02:22,700 --> 02:02:24,000
gone.
Yes.

2258
02:02:24,500 --> 02:02:29,000
And honestly I think I I would
be a completely different

2259
02:02:29,000 --> 02:02:30,800
person.
If I had been pushed into areas

2260
02:02:30,800 --> 02:02:34,000
that I couldn't do on my own,
because I had been to, you know,

2261
02:02:34,000 --> 02:02:37,100
it's too easy to just rely on
your own strength and just be

2262
02:02:37,100 --> 02:02:40,900
like, oh, I got this, you know,
but being pushed in situations

2263
02:02:40,900 --> 02:02:44,300
where you have to rely on him or
you can't make it through.

2264
02:02:45,300 --> 02:02:49,000
It's a beautiful experience.
I wish every single person could

2265
02:02:49,000 --> 02:02:53,200
experience what it feels like
because it's the most joyful

2266
02:02:53,200 --> 02:02:56,700
thing in the entire world.
It's the hardest thing, but it's

2267
02:02:56,700 --> 02:02:59,300
also the most I'm joyful.
I wouldn't trade it for

2268
02:02:59,300 --> 02:03:00,300
anything.
I wouldn't trade it for a

2269
02:03:00,308 --> 02:03:03,500
million but gatien's.
Yeah, absolutely.

2270
02:03:04,300 --> 02:03:06,000
Is there anything that we
haven't covered yet?

2271
02:03:06,000 --> 02:03:10,200
You want to hit on?
Um, I think this guy, I think I

2272
02:03:10,200 --> 02:03:14,700
got a little bit.
Also if your nervousness is just

2273
02:03:14,700 --> 02:03:17,800
I don't think we did, I think we
answered it really well actually

2274
02:03:17,900 --> 02:03:20,100
perfect.
So yeah I would just tell I

2275
02:03:20,100 --> 02:03:22,700
would just say if there's
anybody that saying okay, I'm

2276
02:03:22,700 --> 02:03:25,200
facing this new history and I'm
wondering about First Vision

2277
02:03:25,200 --> 02:03:27,300
book, modern translations here
stones.

2278
02:03:27,400 --> 02:03:30,400
It's pulling me like any of
these things you can go to the

2279
02:03:30,400 --> 02:03:32,900
Joseph Smith Foundation website
and we're trying to get all

2280
02:03:32,900 --> 02:03:35,500
those resources there from a
traditional perspective when we

2281
02:03:35,500 --> 02:03:38,800
have a lot of books and we have
documentaries and if we don't

2282
02:03:38,800 --> 02:03:42,600
have them we may have a project
that you can volunteer with to

2283
02:03:42,600 --> 02:03:45,200
help with or go to your own.
Yep.

2284
02:03:45,200 --> 02:03:47,700
And I'll cheer you on.
Well, let me ask you this

2285
02:03:47,700 --> 02:03:51,700
question.
Got a couple in to wrap up here.

2286
02:03:52,600 --> 02:03:55,900
Where do you see this going?
This, this new narrative that

2287
02:03:55,900 --> 02:03:58,900
has come out.
Do you think that there are

2288
02:03:58,900 --> 02:04:03,400
enough people that recognize it
for the falsehoods they are?

2289
02:04:05,400 --> 02:04:09,500
It's changing.
I'm definitely hopeful and we

2290
02:04:09,500 --> 02:04:11,400
definitely have a lot of work
ahead.

2291
02:04:11,500 --> 02:04:16,700
We're a little behind the game.
It was interesting because

2292
02:04:16,700 --> 02:04:19,300
shortly after boy, keep hacker
died.

2293
02:04:20,100 --> 02:04:22,500
There was a scholar who was
talking and he was basically Do

2294
02:04:22,500 --> 02:04:27,200
you like well now we can kind of
you know kind of last holdout is

2295
02:04:27,200 --> 02:04:29,500
pulling that had been involved
you know, in these

2296
02:04:29,500 --> 02:04:34,100
controversies.
And and so I'm not I'm not gonna

2297
02:04:34,100 --> 02:04:39,800
lie that we have a lot of work
to do and it can feel like we're

2298
02:04:39,800 --> 02:04:48,200
outnumbered but um, But there
are people that want to hear and

2299
02:04:48,400 --> 02:04:51,600
as we talked about before, I
believe, Zion is meant to be

2300
02:04:51,600 --> 02:04:54,700
built.
And I believe that that means a

2301
02:04:54,700 --> 02:04:57,800
progressive would say yes.
That means on a progressive

2302
02:04:57,800 --> 02:05:00,900
Foundation, I would say no that
has to be on Joseph Smith

2303
02:05:00,900 --> 02:05:03,400
Foundation.
That it is true and that it is

2304
02:05:03,400 --> 02:05:07,400
solid.
I believe Joseph's boys are here

2305
02:05:07,600 --> 02:05:11,000
and a lot of them are sleeping.
Yes, just like you were seeking

2306
02:05:11,000 --> 02:05:15,300
will said but God will.
Map and we will do this.

2307
02:05:15,800 --> 02:05:18,600
And we have to do this.
We have, we have to build a

2308
02:05:18,600 --> 02:05:20,600
better future for our kids.
If you don't want to do it for

2309
02:05:20,600 --> 02:05:23,500
yourself or someone that's
hurting, do it for your kids,

2310
02:05:25,200 --> 02:05:31,300
but and don't get discouraged.
And even if one heart is turned,

2311
02:05:31,300 --> 02:05:34,900
I mean, when we started no one
knew about this, no one had ever

2312
02:05:34,900 --> 02:05:37,500
heard of Leonard Arrington and
no one was questioning rough

2313
02:05:37,500 --> 02:05:41,300
Stone Rolling.
That was Six years ago, five,

2314
02:05:41,300 --> 02:05:45,100
six years ago.
And look at the difference

2315
02:05:45,300 --> 02:05:46,900
today.
That's just one family.

2316
02:05:49,900 --> 02:05:52,800
We we've talked about this a
little bit already, but we

2317
02:05:52,900 --> 02:05:56,300
talked about, you know, just one
person right?

2318
02:05:56,300 --> 02:05:59,600
Just doing something, you know
who George Whitfield is.

2319
02:05:59,600 --> 02:06:01,400
Yes, I'm sure you do.
I do?

2320
02:06:02,600 --> 02:06:05,700
We don't have Washington and we
don't have Franklin.

2321
02:06:05,800 --> 02:06:08,800
We don't have Jefferson if we
don't have Whitfield first,

2322
02:06:08,800 --> 02:06:13,800
right?
And maybe maybe my job, maybe

2323
02:06:13,800 --> 02:06:18,100
somebody else's job isn't To be
whoever.

2324
02:06:18,200 --> 02:06:21,600
But maybe you're there.
Yes, set that up.

2325
02:06:21,600 --> 02:06:26,000
Yes and George Washington's.
Mom did just as important of a

2326
02:06:26,000 --> 02:06:28,300
job as George Washington?
Yeah absolutely.

2327
02:06:28,400 --> 02:06:31,600
Yep.
If someone is here in this and

2328
02:06:31,600 --> 02:06:34,700
they want to reach out and help
support the Joseph Smith

2329
02:06:34,700 --> 02:06:36,400
Foundation, how can they do
that?

2330
02:06:36,500 --> 02:06:40,200
Okay, so they can go to the
website and they can contact us

2331
02:06:40,200 --> 02:06:42,500
through.
True Joseph Smith at gmail.com,

2332
02:06:43,000 --> 02:06:48,300
or they can if they want to
reach out to me directly, they

2333
02:06:48,300 --> 02:06:52,400
can go to, they can email Hannah
dot Joseph, Smith Foundation at

2334
02:06:52,400 --> 02:06:56,500
gmail.com and where we have some
of the contact information on

2335
02:06:56,500 --> 02:06:58,200
our website.
We have a Facebook page, we've

2336
02:06:58,200 --> 02:06:59,900
got, you can follow us on social
media.

2337
02:07:01,100 --> 02:07:03,800
Is there anything in particular
that you guys need more of right

2338
02:07:03,800 --> 02:07:05,300
now?
Is it just more bodies?

2339
02:07:05,300 --> 02:07:07,900
I mean, what is it?
You guys could sit really use?

2340
02:07:09,200 --> 02:07:14,600
Absolutely.
Yes, I would say probably, Any,

2341
02:07:15,500 --> 02:07:21,300
we definitely need people who
are talented in graphics and web

2342
02:07:21,300 --> 02:07:24,100
and video, meaning that they
have those skills.

2343
02:07:24,100 --> 02:07:26,800
And if you don't have those
skills, one thing that I

2344
02:07:26,808 --> 02:07:29,200
encourage parents to do is do
that for your home school.

2345
02:07:29,300 --> 02:07:32,600
But if you're homeschooling
train, your kids to have skills.

2346
02:07:32,600 --> 02:07:36,400
So they can go and do this.
But even people that just want,

2347
02:07:36,400 --> 02:07:39,500
that are like, can't do any of
those things but, you know, I

2348
02:07:39,500 --> 02:07:41,200
can reach their stuff on social
media.

2349
02:07:41,200 --> 02:07:44,400
I can leave reviews.
That is one big thing that So

2350
02:07:44,400 --> 02:07:46,700
much is leaving reviews on
Amazon people.

2351
02:07:46,700 --> 02:07:50,300
Don't realize, actually, how big
of a role that place in search

2352
02:07:50,300 --> 02:07:53,400
engine optimization and
marketing and Google, and things

2353
02:07:53,400 --> 02:07:56,500
like that.
So, just leaving reviews, we do

2354
02:07:56,500 --> 02:07:59,500
have this project where we're
trying to organize, all of

2355
02:07:59,500 --> 02:08:01,200
Joseph, Smith's teachings, by
topic.

2356
02:08:01,200 --> 02:08:04,000
You have most of Joseph, Smith's
done, but we're moving forward

2357
02:08:04,000 --> 02:08:06,100
to do all of those who knew
Joseph Smith.

2358
02:08:06,400 --> 02:08:09,200
So those that were tutored by
him like Heber C, Kimball

2359
02:08:09,200 --> 02:08:13,100
Brigham, Young and Eliza R snow
which I personally am very

2360
02:08:13,100 --> 02:08:13,900
excited.
Itit about.

2361
02:08:13,900 --> 02:08:16,800
We're going to do some
devotional books and fun things

2362
02:08:16,800 --> 02:08:20,100
like that, for women and based
off her teachings.

2363
02:08:20,400 --> 02:08:24,100
So, honestly, it's just kind of
where people are at and what

2364
02:08:24,100 --> 02:08:27,600
they feel like they want to do.
If they feel led to reach out,

2365
02:08:27,600 --> 02:08:31,700
please do, I'll find a spot.
All right, well, we've done two

2366
02:08:31,700 --> 02:08:35,900
hours and five minutes.
Damn it, you are so awesome.

2367
02:08:35,900 --> 02:08:38,900
I mean, that your whole family
does the work you guys have

2368
02:08:38,900 --> 02:08:43,100
done, just can't be overstated
and are continuing to do.

2369
02:08:43,500 --> 02:08:48,500
And I encourage anyone out there
listening if you have time on

2370
02:08:48,500 --> 02:08:52,000
your hands and you want to
devote to a worthy cause I can't

2371
02:08:52,000 --> 02:08:55,000
think of anything better than
the Joseph Smith foundation.

2372
02:08:55,000 --> 02:08:57,600
So go check that out.
Thank you thing else.

2373
02:08:57,600 --> 02:09:04,500
You want saying in closing I
would just say I just, I just

2374
02:09:04,500 --> 02:09:07,500
want to say for the anyone
that's doubting or ever has

2375
02:09:07,500 --> 02:09:09,900
doubts, huh?
I want them to know that I have

2376
02:09:09,900 --> 02:09:13,300
a testimony.
That I know there was a time in

2377
02:09:13,300 --> 02:09:16,800
my life where I said, you know,
I believe believe Joseph Smith

2378
02:09:16,800 --> 02:09:18,900
is a prophet.
I think I know the book horns.

2379
02:09:18,900 --> 02:09:21,100
True.
But I know, huh.

2380
02:09:21,300 --> 02:09:26,200
And I know it and it is true and
this there is no more important

2381
02:09:26,200 --> 02:09:28,400
work than spreading to this
world because it is the only

2382
02:09:28,400 --> 02:09:31,300
answer we have and it will
change the world.

2383
02:09:31,300 --> 02:09:35,700
It can help so many people.
So, it's worth every sacrifice

2384
02:09:36,100 --> 02:09:40,200
to do awesome.
All right, everybody will talk

2385
02:09:40,200 --> 02:09:41,700
to you next time.
Thanks.