Episode#54: The Infiltration of Our Churches, Schools, & Institutions W/Julie Behling Part 1

0:05 We're living in a world today that just feels wrong from our jobs to our schools, and for some folks, even their churches. It's as if we've slipped into some kind of dystopian future where things have gone off the rails so badly that we don't recognize our world any longer. If you're like me, sometimes it makes you sit back and wonder if I'm the only one that sees these things, you're if you're crazy. Look, I'm guessing if Here and you're listening to this podcast it's because you're seeking answers today. I have a conversation with somebody that I think will give you those answers and let you know it's just not you in that you're not crazy and that something is very, very wrong. Her name is Julie be lean.

0:45 Julie is a mom and an author who serves an LDS mission in Russia. After that. She attended University where she did her thesis on Christians in Soviet Russia. Julie, then discovered some information that quite frankly is very Julius detailed and documented the Communist infiltration into America's most trusted institution schools, and even our churches, Julie, documents. All of this in her book beneath sheep's clothing, and I can't recommend that book enough. Julie, here breaks down what she saw on her Mission and Russia and then we discuss the infiltration of communist influence into America. Now, our first conversation only lasted an hour and I was still left with a lot of questions. So she was gracious enough to come back on and do a part 2. So as soon as you're done here, head right back to the website and check out part 2.

1:34 That's next on this episode of the Mormon Renegade podcast. Because of your generosity last year, I was able to buy better audio equipment and software. I can't tell you how much it meant to me. That not only did you spend your time here with me on the podcast but also that you found enough value. In what I'm doing that you donated the podcast upgraded this year, I want to continue to grow. Now I want to add video to the podcast continue to help you my guess and myself. Connect better through the show. The other feature. I'm working on for this podcast. Is something I have to In vague about for now. But what I can say is that it's something that will help us better connect as fundamentalist and traditional LDS. Folks, now to get that equipment for the video content, I want to do and to build the infrastructure for the other project with this podcast donations would certainly be welcome or you can go to Mormon Renegade.com. Click that supply store button and get some new swag. New stuff will be out soon as well. Now if you can't afford to you either of those two things, I totally Ali.

2:40 Get it, maybe just keep the podcasting your prayers. That will be blessed with those resources. Again, thank you for everything you do as well as for listening to the podcast. I have been very careful on this podcast to only advertise for items that I feel will add value and purpose in your life. That said, I've discovered a book that I really believe should be in every Mormons Library. The book is called beneath sheep's clothing. In this book, the author Julie be Ling breaks down the Communist infiltration into our schools institutions, and perhaps even most distressing our churches, the book backs up its claims with well cited sources. So you can go do the research yourself, this book will allow you to See the Communist tactics and gives you the tools on how to combat this Insidious movement in America Julia's, right now, trying to raise money to make the book into a documentary and I can't recommend donating to this cause strongly enough.

3:35 So head over to Mormon Renegade.com and you can find the link to buy the book and donate to the documentary in this episode page or scroll down to the very bottom of the landing page at Mormon, Renegade.com, to find a link to buy the book. You're listening to the Mormon Renegade podcast. Well, Julie, thanks for coming on, thanks for having me. So, when I first heard about your book, I was super fascinated because educate, public education has been something that that I've talked about before here on the podcast and had people on at what point did you decide you were going to like start homeschooling your kids? Well, I have one son and he's 8 and I kind of actually assumed I would homeschool him from the get-go before I even had. My head in pretty late in life, but then being the only child, he did attend Like Preschool, Global part-time preschool. And then, I did end up and I were, I've been working this whole time.

5:01 I did put him in a charter school for kindergarten. This was the 2019 2020 school year, which was interrupted. And once the mask mandates were, you know, came down for the next school year. I was like, no, we're not doing this. I'm not masking my events six-year-old, so I homeschooled him from that point. Ain't I put him in a charter school again for a while, but I have recently pulled him out and probably will be doing homeschooling or some sort of alternative schooling from here on out, so, right on. So what was the impetus for the book? Oh, okay, well my, but beneath sheep's clothing. It's that's a kind of a long answer to that question. I started an LDS mission in Russia in the late 90s and was there, you know, pretty just a few years after the collapse of the Soviet Union.

5:52 So I really got up close and personal with post-communist life in Russia. And I met a lot of people who had been very negatively impacted by communism people who spent time in the gulag people had been Ties by the stalinist era, a lot of elderly people with really a lot of trauma. And I came back for my mission and I ended up getting a dual Masters at Florida State University, a dual Masters, in Russian language, and literature in Russian, and East European studies. And for my Russian and East European studies degree, I decided to write a thesis and I just felt drawn towards researching the Christians under ground crew. Kitchens during the Soviet Union and then I kind of honed in more as I began my research.

6:41 What exactly that would look like and my interest in that came from my mission from coming across. Well, first of all, out of the, I don't know, like a thousand people or so that I asked if they believed in God in the course of my mission. I was very surprised that out of everyone I asked I thought there was only one person who said they were atheist, And I found that pretty shocking. Everyone was either. Yes, I believe in God, or I'm open to believing in God and I'm searching. It was kind of a bit of a golden era in Russia. Let me ask you this. How did that come about? Because if you read Marx, he's very clear that that religion is the Opium of the masses, right? That, that that this idea of religion and it God is very, it's almost threatening to to Marxism and leninism because they have this idea.

7:31 That, that the state was almost supposed to be God, right? State was God, right? And they're the leader of the state was, was God for sure. No religion, especially Christianity, where some of the top enemies of Communism and had to be taken out what they found. So that in the early Decades of the Soviet Union, especially in the right at the beginning of it, they did Mass arrests of Christian clergy tortures, you know, Cick, you Shinzo putting people in the prison camps and it was a bloodbath. It was a bloodbath all around and of course they bombed churches.

8:11 They, you know, demolished them, they base act. Then they took out all of the especially the Orthodox churches with a lot of gold and like, jewel-encrusted icons, they, you know, sacked all of that. But what they found but by World War Two, and during the most repressive years of Stalin that there was actually enclaves of Entity that were strengthening underground and that we're gaining gaining more and more strength, and they could not estate, extinguish religion. And once the World War Two ended installing died, there was it what they had? The thought, they called it, the thaw. And so, some of the really repressive things that had happened, especially in the 30s and 40s, early 50s with Stalin that kind of lifted.

8:54 And they actually let a lot of people go from the gulag early and among those people were a lot of Christian clergy. And then there was a bit of a Christian and religious revival at that time. In the mid 50's 60's and so but the Soviet state kind of rearranged its tactics and but my Master's thesis focused on the tactics the anti-religious tactics for the world war to end of WWII up until perestroika to the mid 80s because it was a more sophisticated set of tactics. And instead of just a Brute Force, we're going to kill everyone or execute or you know imprison everyone it Like me and how can we do this more effectively? And so I really focused on A3 when I discovered where the three main anti-religious tactics and the first one was not really any secret anti-religious propaganda and buying it with Pro communist propaganda in the schools in the media in all of the Arts, you know, poetry had to had to endorse communism.

9:55 They could not have poets that did not glorify a communism. They could not have Lawmakers that didn't glorify communism, there could be no sculptors or any musician or anything, everything had to glorify communism, and make fun of religion. Christianity, of course, being foremost Among Us and the second tactic was, instead of keeping up their complete, just outright persecution of Christians, they backed off and they gave a lot of concessions, but they there was one group that they continue to persecute very heavily and these Fringe Christian groups that did not go along with the government. They did not register with the government because there was a cost of registering with the government you basically would sign a way different parts of your of your beliefs in order to register officially with the Soviet state. So the Christians that I studied that were the Renegade Christians.

10:51 The underground Baptists, underground Pentecostals, Seventh-Day, Adventists, and Jehovah's Witnesses. They were still, they were enemies of the state Numero Uno. And they had the Mass state still after them all the way up through the mid 80s, the third tactic was a new one that they developed. That's pretty chilling. Probably, the most effective, anti-religious tactic was infiltration of the churches and they did this with KGB agents who posed as would be clergy going into the seminaries and going into lead all the churches and to control the churches with from within this was done, you know, as you were describing that it's kind of chilling, right?

11:31 His I think I think you can make case that at least two of the three. We're seeing right now today in the first of all, three. All three II didn't know how, the registering part would work like, you were saying, well, but the good, the government controls of Richard Wright and, and we saw that during covid, right? When when the government was able to say, shut down the churches and everybody just shut down. That was, that was spooky. That was To me the first time I can remember. We're a guaranteed right? That that, you know, Madison had had made sure was there, right?

12:13 The your First Amendment right? Right to conscience that was compromised for the first time I can ever remember on a big scale and what scared me is we just took it right. There wasn't an outcry. So, so when when those folks are driven underground like that, do you think that that Christianity still managed to spread or do you think that they could they did contain it? Well, I mean both. Yeah, the Soviet state. The remaining, there were millions of casualties, and of course they did decimate, the faith of many people. So, one of the things that was really common, when I was a missionary, there was meeting people who talking about baptism and they would say, oh yeah, my grandma baptized me in the woods.

13:06 So a lot of little Russian Grandma's would take their little grandchildren out into the woods. Woods and baptize them secretly and I would still transmit their faith to them. But they were a little most of most of these types of Christians were taught there. They taught their kids that they had to pretend they had to just go along with the script to keep out of trouble. So there's a whole lot of that that went on the ones that were the really hardcore people. The ones I studied for my thesis. I mean these people were super amazing. I mean they risked life and limb on a regular Yes, it was, you know, breaking the law just to have like a public baptism or, you know, to have, you know, teaching their kids to pray. There were some groups, some of the underground Pentecostals in particular that the state would just revoke their parental rights and take their children and put them in state orphanages saying.

14:02 Well you're abusing your child by teaching them to pray. So we're going to take your kids for their own protection and of course trying to brainwash them So was that so that was kind of the impetus for writing the book. Did you start seeing these things creeping into public education? And that was kind of what really LED you to to go for. Didn't start with public education. I wrote most of this book. Well the first part of my book again, beneath sheep's, clothing of is the name of it. The subtitle is the Communist takeover of culture in the USSR and parallels. In today's America, I didn't have my son, I had my ID Written most of his book before I even had my son.

14:44 So I was not really focused on the education part of it that came later. What actually caught my attention. Interestingly enough was in 2008 when the flds had their had El Dorado Ranch rated by the government had their children taken without due process. Yeah, that was a guy that was like a oh this looks just like with the Soviets did to the Pentecostals. Yeah. And then I started looking more deeply and you know I'm not I'm not a fan of Warren Jeffs and from what from what you said earlier, you're not such a big fan of his either, but there's definitely some issues there, but that doesn't mean the government can just go in and just take over and not go through the proper legal channels and the proper due process and everything.

15:31 So I started looking more deeply and I found all three of the tactics. The anti-religious tactics that I studied in my thesis, I saw them not just Like a little bit. But like I saw it was just yeah, it was bad. And it only got worse though, with a little more time has gone on. It's gotten exponentially worse especially with. Well, it's gotten exponentially worse. We haven't seen the government come against Another church since 2008, in the same way that, you know, is big on the news, but I predict that we will if there are churches and groups to Christians, who defy the government, I predict that we will see such things increase, that is so spooky and you're right, as far as the flds.

16:24 And what's interesting is that if you look at the history of the flds, And I hope I'm getting the name right. I might be wrong, but I believe the man's name was Leroy Johnson. I might be wrong, but he was the original leader of the flds church and this was back in like the 40s and the 50s and for all intents and purposes, he was he was a pretty decent guy, right? He wasn't rearranging families, he wasn't doing anything like that. And so what you have is once the short Creek grades, Were to happen if forced those people underground.

17:05 And whenever you force a people into the Shadows, you set them up for one or two things. One is, is constant distrust and maybe turn them a little bit militant which didn't necessarily happen this time or you set them up to become victims of a tyrant. Absolutely. And that's what the short creycrey grades really did, because it allowed it allowed the, the Jeff's Family to come in. They're starting with This with warns, Dad to come in there and see, say, look there. They really are after you. So you listen to me and I'm going to keep you safe. And when that happens, it's brutal. It's absolutely brutal.

17:45 Anytime you force a church of people, a subculture into the Shadows. One of those one or two things is going to happen every time. Well, I agree. Absolutely. And so I find it interesting that the government creates the problem essentially and then has to try to fix the problem. Only, they once again, just violate all sorts of constitutional rights in getting it done, the other, the other big example of the government, going after a fringe religious, Nation which is even worse than the 2008. One was the Branch Davidians of Waco 1993. And I was graduating from high school. I was like in my final month of high school when that happened. And so I just believed whatever I saw on the news, but when I delved into that, I would say, out of everything I researched the treatment of the Branch Davidians and what happened there, we don't know everything, but what we do know is horrific, it's it is absolutely one of the worst things I've ever. Ever researched.

18:53 And what I could I was probably I'm guessing I was a sophomore in high school and that was going down. And what I remember most is, I kept asking the question, well, what did they do wrong, right? What, what was it? That was going on that cause the government show up in the first place. I was young, but and I wasn't raised Mormon of any stripe. So I was a troublemaker. So I understood you could. Get away with a lot as long as you weren't raising eyebrows, right? So, I was always like, what was it that those folks did that caused the eyebrows to raise, and I've heard things like, they were amassing weapons, or something like that, but it seems to be a pretty weak argument to show up with the amount of force that they did and and you can correct me here, but I'm going to say this both Ruby Ridge.

19:50 And the Branch Davidian debacle happened under the same Administration, the same party and you got to ask some what's that? I think Ruby Ridge. So was Ruby Ridge. Push it? I think it was because the branch to be okay Clinton had just been inaugurated like the month before like a month and a half before the raid on the Branch Davidians. So Ruby Ridge must have happened before that but it was the same BL. It was the same. ATF leadership been and from what I've researched under Clinton. They did get more. They did get additional funding and they kind of wanted to show the new president. This was only part of the puzzle that they that they were going to be doing a lot of great things protecting America. And so they needed to put on a big show to even Lobby for more funding.

20:45 That's one aspect of it, but there's other clues that I can't. Prove. But there's other clues that let's just say that Bill and Hillary Clinton may have been putting this show on to try to scare religious organizations into compliance. There's evidence for that, I can't prove it but there's evidence for it and not just them other other players to the government as well. So as you as you researched your book and you start to put the pieces together, How far how far along that Revolutionary Road? Are we?

21:26 The thing is, nobody knows. Nobody knows exactly how things are going to unfold. I mean, we're pretty far gone. We're pretty far gone, but a mass Awakening of people and it Mass people standing up and Awakening to what's really going on. Can I think prevent some of the worst plots from, you know, unfolding completely? But we're not going to escape some crazy times, right? When I watched When I watched the riots happen, the I believe it was the summer of 2020 after George Floyd was killed. And that was, that was horrible, right?

22:06 I'll never say that that was right or whatever, but you could tell that a lot of the riots that were happening weren't necessarily Grassroots. Yeah. Right these. These had been Orchestrated, they've been orchestrated. Thank you. Yeah, you're exactly right. And if you read Marx and you understand that that conflict has to exist before communism can take root and you heard some of the things that they were saying it was really spooky and that caused me to go. Look at black lives matter ink and look at just the website, right? And so I get on there and the first thing they talk about is that they want to disrupt.

22:52 The nuclear family going back to what Hillary Clinton had said about. You know, it takes a village sort of a thing, but if you again, go back to Mark's, you can see the seeds, right? Because Marx, was all about the idea of getting rid of the Bourgeois family that it needed to go away. And that those kids were the property of the state, not the parents. Yeah. The other thing that I discovered is that the actual founder was a trained Marxist. She admitted So it was really spooky to see it because I really came of age. I can remember when the, when the wall fell which was really the I mean, this the USSR hadn't completely Fallen yet, but that was kind of like, oh no, they're done, right? This is the death throes and so it was weird for me to have to look at all this and go.

23:46 Okay, it didn't die. It just changed it. They just took off a military uniform and put something else on. well, when it gets, even when you look further into the roots of Communism and America, You see that this is probably one of most controversial parts of my book but it's probably not going to be controversial to you or your audience. You look back at the roots of let's say infiltrating America's churches with Communists which was done at whoops. Beginning well over 100 years ago infiltrating the school will as public school was being developed, insinuate pushing it in with socialism and communism. This was funded by like the Rockefeller Foundation, Carnegie foundation and guess who funded the Russian Revolution and funded Lennon.

24:37 It was the same people is what monopolistic capitalists from America. I think there were some maybe from Germany that helped fund it too, but they're the same people, the same people, they began infiltrating things here, organizations here, in America, with Communism, and funding Lenin in the Soviet Union. So, Let me ask you this Julie because I'm always fascinated with this. And I don't doubt you for a minute because I've seen a lot of evidence that points to that, but I haven't been able to make sense of it. Communism at its core is, is really anti-capitalistic. You can make an argument they dig State capitalism but even that I mean, a true blue.

25:24 Well top Marxist strives for This Global takeover, right? That That the revolution has to sweep the globe in order for it to be truly successful, right? Why would folks like the Carnegie's The Rockefellers, those sorts of people? Why would they throw their lot in with them? Because they made their money from a capitalist system? What was the draw to get the Rockefellers and the Carnegie's to, to jump into that? Well, they made their money over there too, because Russia was just beginning to industrialize. And so, They were able to go and make money off of the industrialization of Russia and that's one thing.

26:06 Number two, it's all about control. And and these people, you have, they're not true. Capitalists are monopolistic capitalists. They want to keep themselves and their family lines. At the top of the Heap can communism, is a handy control grid to keep the rest of the masses down? Sure. Not makes. That makes perfect sense. Another question I got for you and I feel like this is really important especially for some of my LDS listeners. How when you talk about, infiltrating the church's, right? And I think we can see that right? With the church that like Barack Obama attended and and Oprah Winfrey attended where, you know, Jeremiah Wright.

26:54 I believe his name is, you can go Google him and find all sorts of just horrible things. He said, yeah. When you say infiltrate, are you talking about they actively place for lack of a better word operatives in the pews, or are they banking on this idea of culture, re-educating, the younger generation and then the younger generation. Unknowingly does the, the infiltrating in the churches for, for those in power. Well, we have all the above and infiltrating at the top. Ship levels. Now I will say this out of the major churches in America, there is less evidence of communist infiltration into the LDS church than there is in to any of the others.

27:43 That's good to know. So but that, but there still is more recently, it's getting problematic. But what? So when I'm talking infiltration of America's churches, what I mean is that on paper, it's all their evidence that by mid-century mid-twentieth Century upwards of half of America's Mainline, Christian churches were infiltrated at the top and so what, what Rockefeller, what he did is, he funded different operatives to go into the seminaries and then become heads of seminaries and then be training. The pastor's, especially for the was called first. It was called the federal Council of churches and then it changed its name to the National Council of churches because it started getting a bad rap because people saw that they were being infiltrated at the time, it was happening and They did what these operatives did is, they went in and they started changing doctrines and they started casting doubt on the Divinity of Jesus.

28:41 Now, that's fine. If you have doubt in the Divinity of Jesus, but that's a little strange for a Christian Pastor to cast doubt on the Divinity of Jesus. Yeah, I mean maybe you're in the wrong profession. If you don't believe in the Divinity of Jesus, don't be a Christian pastor, but they began preaching from the pulpit casting doubt on the Virgin birth casting doubt on Jesus as a A savior. You know, Jesus was just a prophet. He was just a good person and then what they switched they did a little Switcheroo instead of having to focus the app is far as I understand it. Correct me if I'm wrong, the kernel of Christianity is that mankind has fallen and God sent Jesus to atone for the sins of mankind. We can be can turn ourselves over to Jesus become one with him and we can be, we can be saved, right? Is there a right that?

29:29 That's that's a pretty good encapsulation of Iowa. Say just about all Christianity. If that is the kernel of Christianity, what they did, what these operatives did is, they went in there? And instead of making it about an individual relationship with God and about Redemption from sin, it became a social justice gospel. They peeled away, the aspect of Christianity be where we are supposed to do service to those in need. Absolutely, but they peel that away from the relationship with God. Aspect discarded. The Friendship with God at least the focus on it and now the focus is social justice. And of course, we need people in this world who care about the downtrodden.

30:13 That's essentially, the very can see how easy it would be to play that Switcheroo game. So now it's gotten you know, much more apparent by now. But even by the mid-50s they had half of the church's half of Mainline Christian churches in America, Bamboozled with this and then even by the 60s, you'd see the National Council of churches, putting out pamphlets for teenagers, trying to strip away at the principle of Chastity and encouraging teenagers. That it's okay to go and play around and see what you like. You would expect that from certain organizations, but not from an organization representing half of America's Christian churches. And there's, there's more.

30:54 Then you get into the black liberation theology, which you mentioned, Jeremiah Wright Liberation. Theology. That's how Communism spread in Latin America unlike Colombia and those different places they use Catholic priests, they trained Catholic priests to be Marxist, operatives to go in and rally up the peasantry to turn against you. And of course, the peasants in Latin America were highly impressed. It's not hard to find oppressed people in history of the world, so it's very brilliant marks his whole plan, find some depressed people, get them, rather them up to anger against their oppressor and get them to tear down Society than the Marxist will come in and take power and then oh, everyone gets to still be oppressed. Yeah, but Liberation theology in Latin America came out. Just a little bit for Black Liberation but Theology and all the evidence points to Black Liberation. Asian theology in America being up being a KGB operation. And what's really interesting?

31:52 And I haven't seen anyone mention this anywhere. I've discovered this, in my research that the guy who founded, he's credited with founding Black Liberation theology, which for anyone who's not familiar, it puts this. It's I mean it was before woke is and became big, but it puts the plight of black people being oppressed and white. People being the oppressors at the heart of the Christian message. It's like his marriage between tween Christianity and a struggle for remanence or just a struggle for to reduce oppression amongst black people. You can see how they could be tricked because obviously black people have been oppressed throughout history in America. Anyways, But the man who was credited with founding Black Liberation theology, Reverend cone, he says that it was this this white couple boy act, I can't remember their first names and, last names was the last names were boy, ack, that they were this head of this Methodist seminary in like Iowa or someplace where he was studying and they gave him the idea and they encouraged him to come up with this new Theory.

32:58 Well, I looked into this couple and I have to look at their names, really? You're good. Guess where they came after they after they, I think they're KGB operative. Guess what? After they they got this guy to come up with black liberation theology to infiltrate the Christian churches for so many of black Americans. They came to Salt Lake City Utah and they became movers and shakers in the Christian realm, not the LDS. But the, the Christian Societies, in Salt Lake City, and in fact, they became high up With in Westminster College wow one of them was the dean of students, they both passed away. One of them was the dean of admissions or something. And anyways, they won all these awards for their work. And how much do you want to bet?

33:50 They were? They were tearing down aspects and true Christianity, and Salt Lake, and promoting Marxism instead? Yeah, that whole story, I don't doubt it for a minute and Going back to the whole social justice thing. Yeah I remember when that started to really when I first caught wind of this I want to say it was probably Midway through Obama's second term and it became a buzzword right? Social justice social justice and you start peeling back the layers especially within a religious context because at first from a religious context you're like well I guess I can see that to a degree, right?

34:32 We we get Christians. We are commissioned to go and relieve the suffering of others. Yeah. So I can see that but then what got me as it moved from a a Salvation comes to a person based on a relationship between you and deity. In this case Christ, right? Where you would be, like I accept him as my savior. I'm going to throw all, you know, I'm going to rely on his Moment and it became more of this quasi spiritual istic. Bat pardon, the expression bastardization between organized, religion and a communist effort because there is this idea of we can't be saved, unless were all saved.

35:19 And in order to get there, we have to do certain things within the churches, almost like what you'd see on a national communistic front. It was really spooky when I started putting those pieces together. So, Today we we don't see as much as you said in the LDS church, which I am so glad for, do you think that, that's maybe an outgrowth of I was sitting here thinking about it one. Is that I can't think of another religion that claims the founding documents of the United States, things, like the Declaration, the Constitution, the Bill of Rights, Were divinely inspired. I mean darn near scripture and then the other is that you had the administration of Ezra Taft Benson during the what was it? Late 70s, early 80s.

36:17 I'm not mistaken as the I was before my time as being a Mormon. So I'm trying to up until the early 90s early 90s, okay, thank you. Do you think that's why the LDS church has been able to escape some of? That was just kidding. That's left over. Yes, I do and that there's a problem. So so I wrote most of my book and 2009 through 2011 and then I just couldn't finish it and then I pulled it out the summer of 20 21. I was like it's now or never, I've got to finish this book and then I caught there's the, you know, the had to catch it up to modern day and boy. Things have gotten way worse with education. Things have gotten way worse with the churches and what we've seen in more recent years, as we've seen, because because to the time that I had written the book by 2011, I thought it's just half of the Americas churches that are infiltrated with Communism, where we're at.

37:17 Now the Evangelical churches have been hardcore infiltrated at this point from the top. The people the adherents are like, what is going on here? No, but that On the top there have been infiltrated and we see signs of infiltration of well, because I'm, which it woke ism is Neo. Marxism in the LDS at BYU. There's professors at BYU that teach, you know, the gender fluidity. And that they teach against the binary genders, which that is gender Theory, which is part of woke, Neo Marxism with the whole point to destroy the binary genders because the binary genders are supposedly, a relic of Oppression.

38:01 But anyway, so we do see infiltration now and is that from the top or is that from whatever I do? I probably maybe not the top but it is spreading like a virus throughout Society. It's and it's within there is some evidence that some leaders have kind of tiptoed into that direction and people really need to understand what that is, you know, and that's a whole other can of worms, you know, the gender Theory, the queer theory of Prism and then the whole gay agenda. And then, yes, we get to be loving and respectful of all people. And how do we, how do we balance? All of that. But once you understand that, the agenda is a Marxist agenda to tear down the family to tear down the binary genders, and to create as much chaos as possible in society. Then you can and you can see how that agenda operates, and we probably have time to go into all of that, but there's A lot of information out there, I do go into it in my book as well, but we have to separate that agenda from the people who are gay or are whatever and have love and respect. There's a seat at the table and Society for everyone. Whether you're gay or straight, whether you're whatever you are, everybody gets to participate in our society and everyone is worthy of respect, but we don't need to let our are worried of being seen as judgmental.

39:29 Keep us from speaking out against pornography, in school libraries, which is rampant through Utah. Let me just tell you, one quick story. I was talking with one of my closest friends, I live in Huracan, Huracan down in Washington. County is one of the most conservative towns. It's very highly conservative town. It's a hotbed, I would say it's a hotbed of conservatism. Here, we have one high school. One of my good friend, her daughter is a senior there her. She said her Water performed at her at hurricanes highs talent show a couple weeks ago. And right before she went on, I guess she was singing. A kid came on stage and came out of the closet and ended in a drag show and in the whole school was on their feet roaring with clapping and cheering. And, you know, I don't want any gay child to be oppressed or, you know, Anyone to make fun of them but to cheer on a drag show that's going a bit far at a drag show to public school. I think we've gone will bit too far there and this isn't a hotbed of conservatism that that's what the kids are doing. So hmm.

40:40 It's and I'm like you, right? I don't want anybody to have to live in the shadows. I think I pointed that out before. That's that's a recipe for disaster at the same time. I feel like I feel like those matters need to be reserved for home, right? So we're going at least an adult setting, not not not a school talent show, right? And that's and that's where I have major concerns. My other concern is, is that It appears to me and in this, this I'll probably get a strike on YouTube for this and that's okay too, but it appears to me like a lot of this seems to be the in Vogue thing now, right?

41:23 Where where kids are saying that they're trans or whatever. Yeah, but they're lauded, right? And when you start talking about victimization seems to be the new Social Capital upon which our society is operating. The, the best thing you can do for your own social standing at that point, is to become a member of the oppressed class, right? And then we hearken back to March and we start talking about opposition versus versus, you know, the Bourgeois, see who has it, you know, has the power that sort of thing and it just foments more and more conflict which is exactly what Marxism aims for. Yeah.

42:05 Yeah. This gender Theory and queer Theory where there Clearing our children with the social and emotional learning, and they can do it in any number of ways. They can teach at. There's, I am a firm believer in that. There's a lot of evidence for this that there are operatives in schools. And honestly, Utah has been a prime target for this because in Utah. Yes, we, we traditionally are very conservative state, but we're also very trusting and trusting, and respectful of authority. And so I, there's a A lot of evidence. I'm not the only one saying this that Utah has been a special little guinea pig to see how far they can push it.

42:46 In fact, a friend of mine says that the the wife of our governor Cox had in an email had said that her goal was to push the Utah as far as close to California with his education as possible as much get away with and Utah but any case what they're doing is the kids. So you know there's the critical race Theory. Are the effects to Marxism is all about oppressor versus a pressed the oppressed class with critical race theory is people of color, the oppressor class is not just white people, not just white supremacist, but whiteness, whatever. Rightness is anything can be made to be a relic of whiteness including a constitution.

43:28 And so the kids then, you know, they do these like different exercises, these different privilege exercises and the kids with more privileged that are Christian white heterosexual. Actual they're made to feel guilty and then the way that they can atone for their sins of privilege is to either become part of the oppressed class or become an ally, but it's even better to become part of the oppressed class. And if you can pick from, like six different genders, and sexualities was in one of my best friend's has seven kids and her family. She and her husband got divorced a couple of years ago and there's a bit of upheaval for her kids and now she has two of her. Kids are somewhere on the queer Spectrum.

44:11 And that's not how they were raised. And honestly, I doubt that that's organic. I really think that that is James, Lindsay is a great anti-communist for people to research and he calls that the SEL social emotional learning training. That's especially hardcore for high school and middle schoolers. He calls it. Cult grooming in the classroom and the religion of choice is then woke, Neo, Marxism. Well I and I think you hit on another thing I think I do think that the Marxist learned and I think they learned that mankind, naturally, seeks out religion. Yes, whether whether we want to admit it or not mankind, naturally seeks out a religious structure always has always will. And so, I think the Marxist got smart in the sense of. Okay, we need to Try to feed the souls of these people. Something that resembles that because if you look at what's going on now and you described it perfectly, my daughter who came home from from college, one semester had the book White fragility by that she was forced to read. And I remember I was like, yes, I was like, give me that book, right?

45:28 And so I started looking at it and and I was like, you've got to be kidding me because what it described and And you waited out here really well, Julie is, it's almost a repentance process, right where you recognize, if you're a white heterosexual individual, that is your sin, right? And even though you may not be able to quote overcome your sin in this instant, you should still go through these repentance steps process where you ask for forgiveness and and then maybe if you're lucky you can then find yourself in one of those oppressor classes. So this is He much or religion. It's not a, it's not a religion. We would recognize per se because the savior in this aspect seems to be Society / the state. And so, as you can gain social Credit in that way, it feeds into this whole religion, religious feel to this thing. Yeah, most definitely and I I have some friends like, one of my best friend's works with an organization in Salt Lake that serves the homeless and she finds herself around a lot of like woke people and social justice people. And so she's confused and like telling her look, here's how you can tell whether you're doing service to humanity, or you've gone when the woke direction.

46:50 Are you trying to tear some, some aspect of society down or you just trying to help people. If you're just trying to help people, she's going in helping homeless people is she trying to like destroy part of society? No, she's not. She's not gone too far, but what they Take this good impulse that so many of us have to help other people and want to help underprivileged if then we then take that to hurl bricks at the courthouse and you know, take a bike lock to someone's head or want to destroy, you know, different aspects of society in a very violent way than you might be going in the direction of woke Marxism, right? Right.

47:33 Is, as I've watched this all unfold, and I've watched how its Institute, excuse me, how it's infiltrated public education. It's absolutely frightening. So I've said this before on the podcast, I'm a huge fan of the founders of the country. The founding fathers. I moved back to Maryland for five years just so I could be closer to the history and What scared what scared me the most is when I had my sophomore, my oldest son was a sophomore. He came home and I remember, we were just sitting around the table eating dinner and He looked at my picture of Washington praying at Valley Forge and he's like, did you know he was a right?

48:25 Oh, a white rich slave owner and I just kind of dropped my Fork. I'm like where the hell did you hear that? And why in my house? Are you saying that? And I mean we had long conversations just had to try to get that removed because they did they absolutely did. And when I see how well they've done it. My fear is that what they did to the founders in education, they're now doing to Mormonism. In particular now, right? Because there's this new movement within Mormonism where it's like, well, we, you know that there are certain parts of Mormonism. That's redefining who Joseph Smith was, and then out and outright calling, Brigham Young & Asser / and those sorts of things.

49:15 And its really the same tactic that they used with the founders. Right of the country is, if you can discredit the founder or the early. Progenitor, I guess of that idea, you can just discredit the idea. And so what they did with the founders, I think is now underway across Mormonism Spectrum. Right mainstream LDS and fundamentalist alike and I've said for a while, all our kids are on the on the chopping block, this point you're doing the same thing. I also agree with you that Utah's a special case for I think Utah and Texas. I feel like I think there's this feeling of, if we can get it done in those two states, we can get it done anywhere.

49:59 Yeah, yeah. And back to what you said about attacks against the LDS church, I'm not currently active in the LDS church, but I'm very LDS friendly and I've still share the foundational truths, so I feel very close to the LDS church still. But what I believe, just from my research and just from this whole pattern of everything, I think they hold the church's hostage, I'll just say in general, the churches are held hostage And churches that go, that will defy the government, you know, they'll cut off a finger, they'll whatever. And I see these things more and more in the news against the LDS church.

50:40 What we need to do is we need to get the word out to all. You know, like you said, the only LDS Spectrum, we should expect Mass disclosure of ill, Deeds from leaders, whether they're real or not, I don't know. But we should expect that and that's a good sign. That means that the leaders of the church are actually Standing up to the government. If we don't see that, that's when you have to worry, because that means that the LDS church will just go. The LDS Church of this moment is capitulating to the government. I believe that any church in the next coming years that doesn't capitulate and Go full woke, or fully allow or much more than currently allow the infiltration of these Marxist ideologies to proliferate through their churches. Any church, that doesn't do that, especially a major church is going to be Massively lambasted and they will mostly do it through propaganda.

51:34 If there's a small church that is a special threat for whatever reason, then they could get the, you know, the Branch Davidian. Flds treatment LDS church is so large, they probably wouldn't be able to get away with that. This is one little thing. Thus, in the Soviet Union, they focused their heavy hand on the churches that no one liked. No one likes the Baptist's or the Pentecostals are the Seventh-day Adventist or Jehovah's Witnesses. They were all considered Cults in Russia because they were not Orthodox, so it would they were very easy Targets. In America. Branch Davidians were made to be easy targets, a lot of what was said about them was not true, some of it was true. Same thing with flds easy targets, some of what was they've been accused of is true, some of it not But with the LDS church, they will, with they'll put out more and more dirt on different leaders present past whatever.

52:27 And again, whether it's true or not, I don't know. But we should expect that and we should actually tell we need to like tell the church. Hey we would rather that they come out with smear campaigns every single day and you stand up to them, then to capitulate and not have those smear campaigns. You're just Sorry, go ahead. We just need to become immune to the smear campaign to maybe and maybe some of them will be true and we can research that for ourselves but it's going to meet we're going to need to be able to have our heads on straight and be able to also Realize that Jesus himself said there would be wolves in sheep's clothing. Every church, every church is going to have some really bad apples in high positions at different times, the Catholic Church. Hello there have been some bad eye, you can see some bad apples going on there throughout history. So an LDS church is not going to be immune in any church. Any major Church, 100% promise you. This is one of the main things.

53:23 I came away with for my thesis and my book. Any major Church of influence is a major Target for Raishin whether it How Deeply it's infiltrated, that's a question but it will be a made any major church. That is a big influence for good is going to be a major Target and they've been in this game for over 100 years working to infiltrate. There's there's no way that there haven't been some operatives placed within the LDS church that we got. That would be impossible. And I will say one, other thing that I that I discovered an article showing that the Communist Party USA. This was In the 30s, I believe the 1930s, they actually sent they actually recruited their members.

54:07 These were people who had were no longer Christian, they were Communist party members. They asked them to go back into their church because of origin and pose as. Oh, I'm back. But then behind the scenes, try to, you know, do some funny business and there was one of the people that that was showcased in the article was Mormon and I just don't know what he was able to accomplish. I don't have that information. I don't know if anyone But we have to assume every Jesus said, there's the wheat. And the tares, there's the wolves in sheep's clothing. Every church is going to be infiltrated, and we just have to look for the signs of that. And just keep our heads on straight and we need to have our focus, our relationship with God first and foremost, and not in any one person or body of people that we call leaders. Sure.

54:54 Sure, great stuff. Okay, I know we said we had to keep this to an hour today. So, real Real quick. Let's plug the book again, and tell people where they can find it. Sure, you can grab my book beneath sheep's clothing again, the Communist takeover of culture, and the USSR and parallels. In today's America, it's on Amazon. You can also go to my website, beneath sheep's. Clothing.com, I do have where you can get the first couple chapters of the book for free. I also am in the in the end stages of putting together, three home, school lessons for parents. Whether you home school or not, their fees are for There's and from it's all the information that is crucial that I believe is crucial pertains to understand about freedom and tyranny.

55:38 The first lesson is available for free on my website right now it's called widest Freedom matter. The second one is the anatomy of tyranny and it goes through in all the some of the main ways that you can tell that there's a tyranny censorship, different things like that. The third one is the ideology of localism, it's a two-part lesson. I'm still hammering out a few little details on that. And then the last thing I'm actually working with a documentary filmmaker and we're making a documentary with this content on my book, if that's awesome. Yeah, the trailer the documentary, he's working on it and they will be doing fundraising if there's anyone who wants to contribute or know, someone who might want to help fund a work like this, the really a wake-up call to America as Christians, America's parents with kids in school and just Patriots in general, you can shoot me an email at beneath sheep's clothing at gmail.com and And we're going to be hopefully getting this documentary completed this year. That's awesome.

56:37 I will, I'll put that information in the episode page note. And people can can go there and and definitely donate to a cause I feel like it's worth it. All right, Julie. Anything else. He wants a inclusion. Yeah, I do. I want to say one more thing. When I wrote my Master's thesis the biggest takeaway. I had I looked at the different tactics of the different, Christians, and different religious organizations, and how their survival tactics, and which ones were most associated with success and failure of those groups. And what I discover the, the underground Pentecostals were the most successful and they were also the most decentralized.

57:17 The ones the churches that had more highly centralized leadership. Once those leadership was infiltrated like The Seventh-Day Adventist that I studied, they were very highly centralized and they were once they were once. The top leadership was breached, it was game over for them. But with the Pentecostals their philosophy was what they called. The priesthood of the believer that individuals could connect with God, to know, what they're calling was their function within the church, and just in society and they encourage people to do. You feel called to go. Preach in this city, go for it. You feel called to do this great so they can and the decentralized leaders were much less prominent. The people were more empowered to have that connection with God and therefore they when they would have, you know, different leaders of the church will be arrested the church would function just as normal, it didn't impact things, all that much.

58:06 So I would really, it's, I really feel that's an important message for Christians in America today. And the world over is that it's our connection with God and knowing our own function. What is it? We're here to do that is first and foremost and we don't need to sit around and wait for any leader of any church. You know, to tell us everything to do. That's perfect. That's awesome. Julie, let's do this again. Okay, sure, no, I really liked it. All right, everybody will talk to you next time. Hang out for just a few minutes to here. Julie. Okay. You're listening to the Mormon Renegade podcast. You're listening to the Mormon Renegade podcast.