Episode #215: Deepening Our Faith In The Restored Gospel Of Jesus Christ W/Trina Boice

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How you doing?
Great.

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How are you doing?
I'm doing awesome.

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I'll tell you what.
I am so glad that I got your

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e-mail because as you and I
talked about this and and you

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told me what we were going to
talk about, I kind of did just

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some preliminary research and
boy is this fascinating.

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So thank you for being here.
I think so.

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And so I'm so thrilled that you
think so too.

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I could talk all day long and
your viewers and your listeners

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should know you and I have been
talking for I don't know how the

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last 40 minutes, just we could
talk all day long about so many

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things.
You're such a fun guys.

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Oh, well, thank you.
I appreciate that.

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And look, I, I just run a
microphone.

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It's folks like you that make
this thing go.

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So you're, I think you're pretty
great yourself.

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So you know, real quick before
we get in to talk about what

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we're going to talk about today,
I want to find out a little bit

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about you first.
Are you OK with that?

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Yes, but you have a big
announcement.

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Did you want to make the
announcement?

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What's happening in your life
right now as of?

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Oh, yeah, thank you.
I appreciate that.

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Look, everybody knows I'm pretty
prolific when it comes to social

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media and especially stuff like
this because quite frankly,

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these are things that don't
happen every day.

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And gosh, I'm just super proud
of that kid.

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So I'm, I'm excited.
I really do appreciate it.

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And, you know, to go along with
that, I want to say, you know,

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he's already way better looking
than I am.

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So that's another reason I can
be proud, proud of him.

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No, I'm super excited.
So I'll, I'll tell you what,

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there's quite an age gap between
my twins who are 19 and this

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baby that we, that we just had.
And man, it's, it's just been

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such an emotional, I don't want
to say roller coaster, but just

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kind of an emotional high.
I I'll tell you what, I I

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probably wept for three days as
I held that little boy and, and

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talk about making my mascara
run.

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It was rough.
I I was, I was tearing up every

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time I turned around just as I
was holding them.

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For your for your 19 year old
twins, you have.

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And maybe they've already done
this because you're out in

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Missouri, you're close to Ohio.
Have they been to the

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International Twins Days
festival in Twinsburg, OH?

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There's such a thing.
Yes, I so I have an identical

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twin sister and my twin sister
married a twin.

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He has a fraternal twin sister.
And so the four of us wore a

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little matchy outfits and went
to this big twins festival.

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It was hilarious and awesome.
And so your twins need to

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experience it because it kind of
feels like you're part of this

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special little club.
And they had triplets and even

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some quads.
When we went, there were 3000

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twins, triplets and quads there
and it was so much fun.

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And these science companies come
out and they give you cash

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prizes and other gifts to answer
questions and smell things and,

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you know, do little.
I was not going to say science

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experiments on us, but, you
know, other than smelling and

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tasting things.
And they would ask us questions.

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And anyway, it was super fun.
And they have twin entertainment

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and twin food and twin
everything.

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And then twin parade and a twin
cocktail party and a twin

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everybody.
All the twins stay in the same

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hotel.
And it's just a visual delight.

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I almost peed my pants.
It was so funny to just see, you

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know, all of these matching
pairs and people don't just wear

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matching outfits, but they were
matching costumes.

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It's a whole thing.
You, you, they need to

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experience it.
It's super fun.

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See, I'm a very practical man.
And when you talk about like

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twins who are, who are dressing
the same, the only thing I can

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think of is that's a trap.
Because I can only imagine that

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if, if one of my wives had a
twin sister and they were

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dressed the same as I walked by
and maybe get a pat on a rear

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and I pat the wrong the wrong
woman, that's going to make

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Thanksgiving really, really
rough.

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You're going to laugh because
that actually happened on my

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twin sister's wedding day, in
the temple no less.

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Her husband walked up to me.
I was, to give him credit, I was

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wearing her coat for some
reason.

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I don't know why.
But anyway, he walked up to me,

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put his arm around me, just
started to lean in and I went

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whoa.
And we are identical, but

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obviously our husbands can tell
us apart.

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But in that moment, you know, he
has never lived that down.

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I mean, we do.
I mean, we are identical, but

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you know, anyway, so but he's
made that mistake since his

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wedding day.
I'm trying to think if I don't

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think he has, but it's true
because our grandbabies now will

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look at both of us.
If we're together.

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They'll look and they're like so
confused, you know, it's really

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cute.
Awesome, so so were you raised

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LDS?
I was, I was raised by inactive

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parents, so they took us to
church.

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I was just telling my
daughter-in-law this the other

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day and she was so fascinated.
They basically dropped us off at

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the church.
They knew it was good for us.

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My father was raised as a member
of the church, but he was never

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super active.
And then my mother joined the

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church, but she was never super
active.

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And so I, I think that they,
they saw truth that was there

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and they wanted us to go and,
and get a good religious

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foundation.
And what's interesting is all

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two of my sisters and ME3 girls,
all of us served full time

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missions.
We were all in, we all graduated

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from BYU.
And those were things that

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neither of my parents did.
They, sadly, they divorced and

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remarried different people.
And so I have a brother who's

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not a member of the church, but
the three of us, yeah, the three

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girls, we're still all in.
And yeah, it's been interesting

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because I think growing up that
way, it caused us to really

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think about what we were being
taught, you know, because we saw

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things that made sense to us,
but our parents didn't

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necessarily live accordingly.
Do you know what I mean?

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And so we had to decide early
on, you know, did we?

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Did we believe this or not?
And, and I think that made us

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pretty pretty all in pretty
valiant, you know that we we

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bought it.
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

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Because mom and dad probably
aren't necessarily like, like I

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used to have to deal with my
kids, right?

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Like, hey, get up, come on, get
your brush your teeth, get your

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stuff together.
It's it's time to go to church,

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right?
You probably, you probably as a

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young adult have it pretty, have
it pretty well wrapped around in

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your mind that hey, if this is
what I want to do, I'm going to

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have to be a self starter in it,
right?

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Yeah, that's true.
And you know that way as well.

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I mean, you had to figure out
what you believed in and out of

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the church and even, you know,
with what you're doing right

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now.
What parts do I believe?

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What parts don't die?
Where am I going to be all in

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and where am I still
questioning?

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Everybody still has doubts and
questions as things new policies

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come up in the church.
You know, that kind of thing.

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You said you served a mission.
I did.

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I went to where'd?
You go.

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The Spain Madrid Mission.
Really.

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Yeah.
How?

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Was that sister?
It was amazing.

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Of course, I loved it.
I had been to Spain before with

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the BYU study abroad program, so
when I got my calling, I was

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kind of disappointed.
I wanted to go someplace new and

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different.
I wanted to go to Japan and

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learn a different language.
And Heavenly Father made it very

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clear.
I could hear him saying, Trina,

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this is not a travel and tourism
gig.

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You know, you're you are needed
in Spain.

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And I have to tell you so many
times, it was unmistakable to me

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through experiences and
conversations that I had that I

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absolutely was supposed to go to
Spain.

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I loved it.
It was interesting too, because

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as a study abroad exchange
student type of thing with BYU,

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you know, I saw a touristy side
of Spain, a fun, you know, just

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vacation type of Spain.
And then when I went back as a

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missionary, I saw the real Spain
and I love them both for sure.

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So my twin sister served her
mission in Colombia, the

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country, and then my older
sister, she served in Costa Rica

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and Panama.
And so we all, you know,

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whatever, we don't want
everybody to know what we're

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saying.
For years we would speak in

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Spanish, but with a little bit
different accents.

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But two of my sons served
Spanish speaking missions.

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One went to Nicaragua and one
went to Argentina.

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Again, very different accents.
And now we can't talk in front

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of them because now they know
what we're saying.

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So we're like, we need new
languages.

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So we've been learning, trying
to learn different languages

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that we can speak, you know,
whatever we speak in Spanish.

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My brother-in-law, the one
that's married to my twin, he's

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always just like, I know you're
talking about me because you're

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speaking Spanish.
And we're like, no, we

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legitimately might not be, you
know, we're just practicing

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Spanish.
Oh, that's great.

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That's great.
And so then you get home from

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BYU and what's next?
You get married.

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Like what happens from there?
Yeah, well, I graduated from BYU

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1st and then went on a mission.
My dad, bless his heart, I'm so

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grateful to him.
He was adamant that his three

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daughters absolutely get a
degree before they did anything

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else.
Whether it's a mission or a

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marriage or, you know, good
things, he said you've got to

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get that degree.
And I'm so grateful because I

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remember being a young girl,
little girl, and he would say,

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you don't know if you're ever
going to get married.

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You need to have a degree and
it's some education and

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experience to be able to support
yourself.

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And we were like, well, that
makes sense.

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And then he said, and even if
you did get married, you don't

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know, maybe your husband would
die.

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And you still need to be able to
support you and maybe the kids

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that might now be in your life,
you know, your children or you

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don't know, maybe your if you
get married, maybe he'll lose

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his job.
And all of that made logical

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sense to all of us.
And so we were like, OK, that

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sounds like a plan.
And what was fascinating is all

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of those things actually
happened to US.

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One husband did die, one did
lose his job.

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My older sister didn't marry
until she was later in her 30s.

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And I just thought, I'm so
grateful for a wise father.

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But what makes me laugh is he
always said, well, I never said

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I was paying for all that
education.

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So all three of my sisters have
doctoral.

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I mean, like the three girls,
two sisters plus me, we all have

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doctoral degrees.
That's when he was like, wait,

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wait, wait, wait.
I just said I'd pay for the

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bachelor's.
That was it.

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But he had drilled that into our
head so much that we all had

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doctoral degrees.
We've all taught at the

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university level for many years.
And then my brother who came

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along later when my, after my
parents divorced with my mom

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and, or my stepmom and my
father, he is, he earned a joint

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JD, MB A.
So he has a law degree.

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He's actually an attorney for
Facebook.

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And again, my dad was like, I'm
not paying for anything like

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that.
But we were like, Hey, we, we

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believe that education is
important.

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So all my kids just had such a
nerd because I love school.

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I would keep going to school if
somebody would pay for it.

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Nice.
You know, you may have to give

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me your brother in law's number
just in case I ever get put in

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Facebook jail again and see if
you can't spring me.

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I'm just kidding.
You know, back to women and

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being educated.
I think people forget that

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there's a rich history of that
in Mormonism.

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That's not a new thing.
Brigham was really telling some

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of the sisters early on, go back
east, get educated, become

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doctors, then come back West and
practice.

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00:12:57,880 --> 00:13:01,760
It's it's not something that as
Mormons, I think we necessarily

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00:13:01,760 --> 00:13:06,480
struggle with as say some of our
our sectarian Christian brothers

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and sisters do.
Right.

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So there seems to be more
latitude given to to women in

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the latter day St.
Tradition then historically had

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been available in other
Christian centered things.

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Yeah, especially educating your
women because the mother's

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educating the children and
their.

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Friends, that's what I'm saying.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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And I had so many girlfriends
growing up who years later, we

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reconnected and they always
said, wow, I remember you

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00:13:36,560 --> 00:13:39,200
talking about going to college
when we were in elementary

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school, you know, and they said
we didn't, I didn't have a

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00:13:43,320 --> 00:13:46,440
father that or a mother for that
matter, that told me to go to

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college.
So I never did, you know.

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00:13:48,680 --> 00:13:52,560
And again, I'm just so grateful
for a father that really pushed

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education.
And I remember when he got his

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00:13:56,280 --> 00:14:00,040
MB, AI was maybe 6 years old.
And I remember going to his

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00:14:00,040 --> 00:14:03,880
graduation and that visual had
such an impact on me.

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00:14:03,880 --> 00:14:07,400
And I remember at some point
asking, what's the most

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00:14:07,440 --> 00:14:10,000
education you can get?
Because I want to do that.

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00:14:10,200 --> 00:14:13,320
And somebody must have told me,
oh, you know, earn a doctoral

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00:14:13,320 --> 00:14:15,640
degree.
And I'm like, I want to do that.

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00:14:15,720 --> 00:14:19,920
And so that was my goal from
just such a young age.

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00:14:20,680 --> 00:14:21,920
Got you.
What'd you get doctored in?

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00:14:23,320 --> 00:14:27,760
All my degrees are just in
totally different fields because

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00:14:27,760 --> 00:14:30,800
I love variety.
So my doctoral degree is in

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00:14:30,800 --> 00:14:34,600
management and leadership with a
concentration in higher

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00:14:34,600 --> 00:14:37,120
education.
And then my I've got a couple of

256
00:14:37,120 --> 00:14:40,360
masters in Health Administration
and community Wellness

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00:14:40,360 --> 00:14:42,840
promotion.
And then I have a couple of

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00:14:42,840 --> 00:14:46,440
bachelor's degrees, 1 is in
international relations and 1 is

259
00:14:46,440 --> 00:14:50,560
in Spanish.
In fact, I earned that degree in

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00:14:50,560 --> 00:14:53,480
Spanish before I went on my
mission to Spain.

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00:14:53,800 --> 00:14:58,200
And even still, I remember, and
I'd been to Spain and I remember

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00:14:58,200 --> 00:15:01,400
struggling in the beginning,
like I've got a stinking degree

263
00:15:01,400 --> 00:15:03,280
in Spanish.
And I don't understand what you

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00:15:03,280 --> 00:15:07,120
just said to me, but I learned
quickly obviously.

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00:15:08,600 --> 00:15:13,640
Yeah, that is impressive.
And look, I always get people on

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00:15:13,640 --> 00:15:16,960
the podcast who are way smarter
than me, but then there are

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00:15:16,960 --> 00:15:20,560
certain people who I have on,
like yourself, who have, you

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00:15:20,560 --> 00:15:23,320
know, multiple master's degrees
and a doctorate.

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00:15:23,680 --> 00:15:27,400
And I'm like, yeah, I'm a bum,
but no good.

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00:15:27,400 --> 00:15:29,960
Good for you for getting that
level of education.

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00:15:29,960 --> 00:15:33,000
I think that's just absolutely
awesome that you were able to do

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00:15:33,000 --> 00:15:34,560
that.
So you said you taught at the

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00:15:34,560 --> 00:15:36,800
university level.
Where'd you teach and what'd you

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00:15:36,800 --> 00:15:37,040
teach?
Yeah.

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00:15:37,480 --> 00:15:39,400
Well, I taught at a bunch of
different colleges.

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00:15:39,400 --> 00:15:45,400
Right now I'm teaching at BYU
Idaho campus online and I've

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00:15:45,440 --> 00:15:47,360
been with them for about 15
years.

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00:15:47,680 --> 00:15:51,840
And and it's so wonderful
because I love being able to

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00:15:51,840 --> 00:15:56,720
talk about academic subjects
with the gospel lens, right?

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00:15:56,720 --> 00:16:00,280
Because that's who we are.
We live the gospel of Jesus

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00:16:00,280 --> 00:16:02,840
Christ.
And to tell somebody or have

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00:16:02,840 --> 00:16:05,480
somebody tell you no, but you
can't talk about that, you know,

283
00:16:05,640 --> 00:16:08,520
it's stifling.
But I do teach at another

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00:16:08,520 --> 00:16:12,040
college, also online, but it's
in Tennessee.

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00:16:12,920 --> 00:16:16,760
Awesome.
All right, well, let's let's dig

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00:16:16,760 --> 00:16:19,160
into these two books that that
we want to talk about because

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00:16:19,160 --> 00:16:20,800
I'm super excited to get to
these.

288
00:16:21,120 --> 00:16:23,600
So what's the, what's the first
one we're going to look at

289
00:16:23,600 --> 00:16:27,960
Trina.
Well, the first one, the both of

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00:16:27,960 --> 00:16:37,040
these are a lot about Israel,
Jerusalem, Judaism, some Hebrew.

291
00:16:37,200 --> 00:16:38,840
So we'll see how much we can get
to.

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00:16:38,840 --> 00:16:42,640
So the first one, I did a bunch
of other books for Cedar Fort,

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00:16:42,640 --> 00:16:47,840
but I had gone to Israel for the
first time and wasn't planning

294
00:16:47,840 --> 00:16:50,160
on writing books.
And now I've written too about

295
00:16:50,360 --> 00:16:53,000
Israel and all of that.
Let's see, Can you see that

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00:16:53,000 --> 00:16:58,360
without it being backwards?
Absolutely, via Dolorosa.

297
00:16:58,560 --> 00:17:03,560
Yeah, it's called Via Dolorosa,
Christ's path to the cross.

298
00:17:03,960 --> 00:17:10,040
So Via Dolorosa is Latin, but it
also is in Spanish, which means

299
00:17:10,040 --> 00:17:13,200
the painful path or the
sorrowing path.

300
00:17:13,640 --> 00:17:18,440
And what it refers to is the
actual path in Jerusalem where

301
00:17:18,480 --> 00:17:22,760
Jesus walked from condemnation.
You know, Pontius Pilate's

302
00:17:22,920 --> 00:17:27,319
praetorium, where he was
condemned to be crucified, and

303
00:17:27,319 --> 00:17:30,960
then the path that Jesus walked
through Jerusalem, through those

304
00:17:30,960 --> 00:17:33,960
city streets to where he was
crucified.

305
00:17:35,560 --> 00:17:37,800
And so that's what they call it,
the Via Dolorosa.

306
00:17:37,800 --> 00:17:42,320
And you can go to Jerusalem
today and they have a specific

307
00:17:42,320 --> 00:17:45,680
path that you walk.
There are signs and markers

308
00:17:45,680 --> 00:17:49,560
along what they call stations,
like a stop.

309
00:17:49,720 --> 00:17:54,400
So there are 14 stops or
stations where certain things

310
00:17:54,600 --> 00:17:57,320
happened.
Now, the controversial thing

311
00:17:57,320 --> 00:18:01,520
about these stations is, are
they legit?

312
00:18:02,040 --> 00:18:05,560
So there are historians and
archaeologists and Scripture

313
00:18:05,560 --> 00:18:11,360
scholars who have, you know,
continued to excavate and study

314
00:18:11,360 --> 00:18:17,360
Jerusalem to see can we really
verify some of these locations?

315
00:18:17,600 --> 00:18:21,320
So over the centuries, the
Catholic Church predominantly

316
00:18:21,320 --> 00:18:24,080
was the one, the ones that
identified it.

317
00:18:24,080 --> 00:18:31,400
So Constantine's mother became
Christian and wanted to find out

318
00:18:31,400 --> 00:18:35,400
where are the actual spots.
So she went to Jerusalem and

319
00:18:35,720 --> 00:18:39,440
long before Google and AI and
you know all of that, obviously

320
00:18:39,680 --> 00:18:43,160
she did the best research that
she knew how, and she was pretty

321
00:18:43,160 --> 00:18:47,280
confident that she had
identified certain places along

322
00:18:47,280 --> 00:18:52,760
this path.
And so traditionally in the

323
00:18:52,760 --> 00:18:58,080
Christian world, people would go
on pilgrimages to walk this

324
00:18:58,080 --> 00:19:01,320
path.
And you can see today, people

325
00:19:01,320 --> 00:19:05,480
will often be carrying big
crosses or holding little

326
00:19:05,480 --> 00:19:09,960
crosses, singing hymns along the
way, stopping at each station,

327
00:19:10,240 --> 00:19:15,360
reading scriptures, reflecting
on those things that we do know

328
00:19:15,480 --> 00:19:19,000
happened in the Bible.
And then at there was at one

329
00:19:19,000 --> 00:19:21,720
point, some Christians were
like, wait a second, not all of

330
00:19:21,720 --> 00:19:24,680
these stations are actually in
the Bible.

331
00:19:24,960 --> 00:19:27,880
And so the Roman Catholic Church
said, OK, you're right.

332
00:19:28,200 --> 00:19:34,560
So there are 9 official stations
that we can point to scriptures

333
00:19:34,560 --> 00:19:37,920
in the Bible and say we know
this happened and we think it

334
00:19:37,920 --> 00:19:40,600
might be here.
And then there are a few other

335
00:19:40,600 --> 00:19:45,560
stations that are kind of more
traditions, legends, slash

336
00:19:45,560 --> 00:19:49,800
myths.
But regardless on whether or not

337
00:19:50,000 --> 00:19:54,400
you're standing in the exact
spot, it's just a wonderful,

338
00:19:54,400 --> 00:20:00,000
sobering, very spiritual
experience to walk that path and

339
00:20:00,080 --> 00:20:05,000
to think of the Savior and what
he did for us through his

340
00:20:05,040 --> 00:20:10,720
atoning sacrifice and those last
brutal hours that he was willing

341
00:20:10,720 --> 00:20:15,720
to go through for us to pay the
price of our sin sins so that we

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00:20:15,720 --> 00:20:19,120
could repent and be forgiven and
washed clean.

343
00:20:19,360 --> 00:20:21,400
You know, it's, it's really
neat.

344
00:20:21,400 --> 00:20:23,960
And so I started writing this
book.

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00:20:24,480 --> 00:20:28,880
When the prophets, the President
Nelson, I don't know if you

346
00:20:28,880 --> 00:20:31,160
could see my screen, I just got
a little pop up, Let me get rid

347
00:20:31,160 --> 00:20:34,360
of that.
President Nelson encouraged

348
00:20:34,360 --> 00:20:37,880
members of the church to make a
bigger deal out of Easter

349
00:20:38,200 --> 00:20:43,080
because we go all out for
Christmas and rightly so.

350
00:20:43,080 --> 00:20:47,920
I mean, Christmas is amazing and
it should be celebrated, but the

351
00:20:47,920 --> 00:20:53,040
whole value of Christmas is that
Easter happened, right?

352
00:20:53,520 --> 00:20:56,480
And so I thought, well, this
would be a really neat book to

353
00:20:56,480 --> 00:21:01,320
write because members of our
church don't really know about

354
00:21:01,320 --> 00:21:05,440
this tradition, the Via
Dolorosa, so many other

355
00:21:05,440 --> 00:21:09,400
Christian denominations do.
And you see them all over

356
00:21:09,400 --> 00:21:13,080
Jerusalem singing hymns in
different languages and you know

357
00:21:13,080 --> 00:21:18,040
all of that.
It's so wonderful, but in our

358
00:21:18,040 --> 00:21:23,160
Mormon culture, we don't really
talk about it and we don't make

359
00:21:23,160 --> 00:21:26,560
a big trip, you know, like a big
pilgrimage like other Christians

360
00:21:26,560 --> 00:21:27,920
do.
And so I thought, I want to

361
00:21:27,920 --> 00:21:34,480
introduce this because it it is
so valuable to be able to

362
00:21:34,480 --> 00:21:37,960
reflect on the Savior and what
he experienced.

363
00:21:38,240 --> 00:21:42,600
And so I wrote the book kind of
to help families think about

364
00:21:42,600 --> 00:21:48,200
each of those stations and maybe
a week or two leading up to

365
00:21:48,200 --> 00:21:52,480
Easter, maybe read those
chapters.

366
00:21:52,480 --> 00:21:56,840
And it has scriptures that go
with it and quotes and even

367
00:21:56,840 --> 00:22:01,040
activities that you can do to
learn about what happened at

368
00:22:01,040 --> 00:22:05,480
that station and how we can
incorporate those lessons into

369
00:22:05,480 --> 00:22:10,600
our life, or at least be more
grateful on a profound level of

370
00:22:10,600 --> 00:22:15,480
what Jesus Christ went through.
And of course, the last station

371
00:22:15,480 --> 00:22:19,680
is the crucifix or the, the, the
crucifixion and the burial.

372
00:22:19,840 --> 00:22:22,760
It's all inside this massive
church right now.

373
00:22:23,040 --> 00:22:27,200
The last several stations are in
this huge church building, which

374
00:22:27,200 --> 00:22:30,200
has been built on top of other
churches over and over the

375
00:22:30,200 --> 00:22:33,480
centuries.
But it doesn't tell the final

376
00:22:33,480 --> 00:22:38,080
story because the end of the
story is that Jesus was

377
00:22:38,080 --> 00:22:43,720
resurrected, right?
So, yeah, so there are some who

378
00:22:43,720 --> 00:22:47,680
believe that Jesus Christ was
buried in the same tomb right

379
00:22:47,680 --> 00:22:50,240
where this church is built.
It's called the Church of the

380
00:22:50,240 --> 00:22:52,800
Holy Sepulchre, and it's just
massive.

381
00:22:54,040 --> 00:22:59,480
And yet there are others who
believe that it was Golgotha and

382
00:22:59,480 --> 00:23:03,560
the Garden Tomb, which is
another part of Jerusalem, the

383
00:23:03,560 --> 00:23:07,640
Old City of Jerusalem.
And again, you know, I visited

384
00:23:07,640 --> 00:23:13,200
both and I, I couldn't tell you
because I've heard arguments for

385
00:23:13,200 --> 00:23:18,480
and against both locations.
But again, it doesn't matter

386
00:23:18,480 --> 00:23:22,320
because it, what both locations
do is force me to think about

387
00:23:22,320 --> 00:23:27,680
the savior in unique ways and to
reflect on what happened, you

388
00:23:27,680 --> 00:23:31,800
know, in at either that location
or whatever the real location

389
00:23:31,800 --> 00:23:32,640
was.
You know what I mean?

390
00:23:33,680 --> 00:23:36,400
No, I know what you mean.
Let me ask you this question

391
00:23:36,400 --> 00:23:38,320
real quick.
You made an interesting

392
00:23:38,320 --> 00:23:44,040
statement and it's something
that I I've seen and, and excuse

393
00:23:44,040 --> 00:23:50,920
me, I've seen this kind of, of,
of being ubiquitous across

394
00:23:50,920 --> 00:23:53,760
Mormonism, right?
Whether that's the mainstream

395
00:23:53,760 --> 00:23:57,280
church, whether that's the
fundamentalist, it's this idea

396
00:23:57,520 --> 00:24:01,560
that we, we don't give Easter a
resurrection day.

397
00:24:02,240 --> 00:24:04,720
It's due, right?
We, we don't put it in its

398
00:24:04,720 --> 00:24:07,520
proper place or maybe celebrate
it as much as we do, like

399
00:24:07,520 --> 00:24:08,880
Christmas or something like
that.

400
00:24:09,640 --> 00:24:11,920
I'm just kind of curious to get
your opinion on why do you think

401
00:24:11,920 --> 00:24:17,160
that is?
Possibly because everybody loves

402
00:24:17,160 --> 00:24:21,160
to celebrate a birth.
I mean, you just had a new birth

403
00:24:21,200 --> 00:24:26,760
in your family and it's joyous
and wonderful and fun to talk

404
00:24:26,760 --> 00:24:32,240
about and celebrate, but who
wants to talk about crucifixion

405
00:24:32,240 --> 00:24:38,120
and how brutal and horrific
these last few hours were that

406
00:24:38,120 --> 00:24:44,400
included torture and blood and
you know, of thorns on the

407
00:24:44,400 --> 00:24:48,040
saviors head and blood drippy.
I mean, it's awful.

408
00:24:48,360 --> 00:24:53,000
And so I think that generally
Mormons like to think of Jesus

409
00:24:53,080 --> 00:24:57,200
as the resurrected Christ, which
of course he is, because that's

410
00:24:57,480 --> 00:25:01,960
happy he's alive, it's good.
And we don't want to dwell on

411
00:25:01,960 --> 00:25:06,080
all of the just awful stuff that
he went through.

412
00:25:06,080 --> 00:25:07,920
I.
Think.

413
00:25:08,120 --> 00:25:09,680
Your children, you know?
Yeah.

414
00:25:10,320 --> 00:25:13,720
You know what it is?
I, I, I've always said if

415
00:25:13,720 --> 00:25:17,240
someone was to sit down and
actually create a movie of the

416
00:25:17,240 --> 00:25:21,440
Bible, I mean, a, a, a true to
the narrative, that thing's

417
00:25:21,440 --> 00:25:22,840
probably going to get an R
rating.

418
00:25:23,320 --> 00:25:27,680
I hate to break it to people
right, but like, it is a serious

419
00:25:27,680 --> 00:25:30,440
book.
Sometimes I think we tend to

420
00:25:30,440 --> 00:25:36,880
look at the scriptures and
perhaps we like to focus a

421
00:25:37,040 --> 00:25:39,960
little bit too much on the shiny
happy parts, right?

422
00:25:40,160 --> 00:25:42,720
Which is good.
That's, that's what it's there

423
00:25:42,720 --> 00:25:45,080
for.
We, we should get it, you know,

424
00:25:45,080 --> 00:25:48,000
we should get that, that feeling
from studying the scriptures,

425
00:25:48,440 --> 00:25:52,280
but I don't think we give it its
total due and pay attention to

426
00:25:52,280 --> 00:25:56,000
the parts that maybe we should
pay attention to a little more.

427
00:25:56,400 --> 00:26:00,560
And, and this ties in, I think
real heavily with the, with what

428
00:26:00,560 --> 00:26:03,120
the Savior had to endure right
in the Scriptures.

429
00:26:03,120 --> 00:26:07,040
It shows us this, it's a brutal
part of the Bible in terms of

430
00:26:07,040 --> 00:26:09,960
what he had to endure, which was
a lot.

431
00:26:10,400 --> 00:26:16,800
But I think, I think those are
the verses that that I think we

432
00:26:16,800 --> 00:26:19,800
really need to pay attention to
those painful verses, if you

433
00:26:19,800 --> 00:26:22,800
will, that we need to pay
attention to because I think

434
00:26:22,800 --> 00:26:28,040
it's probably pretty true that
that most of humanity learns a

435
00:26:28,040 --> 00:26:31,880
lot more from their failures
than they do their successes.

436
00:26:31,880 --> 00:26:34,160
Now, I'm not saying that the the
savior failed.

437
00:26:34,160 --> 00:26:37,520
That's not what I'm saying.
But there there's for sure parts

438
00:26:37,520 --> 00:26:40,280
of the scripture where we see
people fail.

439
00:26:40,920 --> 00:26:45,120
And if we just brush over the
difficult parts and and look,

440
00:26:45,120 --> 00:26:49,200
nobody likes to, nobody likes to
dwell on horrible things, but

441
00:26:49,200 --> 00:26:51,840
that doesn't mean that there's
still not some lessons that can

442
00:26:51,840 --> 00:26:54,920
be extracted from that.
Just like when we extract

443
00:26:54,920 --> 00:26:58,000
lessons from our own lives based
off of our own trials and our

444
00:26:58,000 --> 00:27:01,400
own tribulations.
I don't know about you, but many

445
00:27:01,400 --> 00:27:04,760
of my greatest spiritual
insights came during a time

446
00:27:04,760 --> 00:27:09,320
where I am stretched thin.
And because of being stretched

447
00:27:09,320 --> 00:27:13,320
like that, my perception changes
and I discover more truths.

448
00:27:13,320 --> 00:27:15,160
And that only comes through real
growth.

449
00:27:15,560 --> 00:27:18,880
And oftentimes, whether it's at
the gym or in your spiritual

450
00:27:18,880 --> 00:27:23,000
walk, you're only going to grow
through pain and, and through a

451
00:27:23,000 --> 00:27:27,400
little bit of anguish, you're.
100% right.

452
00:27:27,400 --> 00:27:32,320
It's those moments that drive
you to your knees with despair,

453
00:27:32,520 --> 00:27:38,400
that you finally appreciate how
valuable hope is and that that

454
00:27:38,400 --> 00:27:42,560
hope comes through Jesus Christ.
It's those horrible moments

455
00:27:42,560 --> 00:27:49,480
where you suffer and that you
finally gain insight there.

456
00:27:49,480 --> 00:27:51,400
In fact, there was a moment on
my mission.

457
00:27:51,840 --> 00:27:55,960
I was in one particular area in
Spain and it was, it was a

458
00:27:55,960 --> 00:27:59,960
beautiful area.
There were lots of green rolling

459
00:27:59,960 --> 00:28:02,160
hills, which I know doesn't
sound Spanish.

460
00:28:02,360 --> 00:28:04,560
When people, especially
Americans, think of Spain, we

461
00:28:04,560 --> 00:28:08,400
think of South southern Spain
dry more like Southern

462
00:28:08,400 --> 00:28:10,760
California versus Northern
California, right?

463
00:28:11,080 --> 00:28:15,120
More dry and touristy and sunny
and Northern California and

464
00:28:15,120 --> 00:28:19,000
northern Spain are were almost
like Scotland with green rolling

465
00:28:19,000 --> 00:28:23,200
hills and windmills and you know
stuff that a lot of Americans

466
00:28:23,200 --> 00:28:26,000
don't even know.
But anyway, it was a beautiful

467
00:28:26,200 --> 00:28:30,440
geographically was beautiful,
but there was this dark cloud

468
00:28:30,440 --> 00:28:34,800
hanging over this little city
and I felt it.

469
00:28:35,320 --> 00:28:38,520
And all of the people in that
little city felt it.

470
00:28:38,880 --> 00:28:45,480
I've never been surrounded by so
many people who felt despair and

471
00:28:45,480 --> 00:28:50,240
they were so depressed.
And I, I just hadn't been around

472
00:28:50,240 --> 00:28:53,080
that before.
And it got inside me.

473
00:28:53,360 --> 00:28:58,960
And to top that off, I was with
a companion who hated Americans.

474
00:29:00,240 --> 00:29:03,440
The first thing she said to me
was, you're American.

475
00:29:03,440 --> 00:29:05,280
You Americans have made me
suffer.

476
00:29:05,360 --> 00:29:09,920
I'm like, what?
And so it was not the, you know,

477
00:29:09,920 --> 00:29:13,440
the happy, fun companionship
that I had with all of my other

478
00:29:13,440 --> 00:29:15,600
companions.
But anyway, it was really weird.

479
00:29:15,600 --> 00:29:18,040
And she was the senior companion
at the time.

480
00:29:18,040 --> 00:29:22,360
And so she wanted to spend time
with people that were really not

481
00:29:22,360 --> 00:29:25,160
progressing, that we're not
going to be moving toward

482
00:29:25,160 --> 00:29:28,600
baptism or even wanting to learn
more.

483
00:29:28,600 --> 00:29:30,560
And I felt like it was a waste
of time.

484
00:29:30,560 --> 00:29:33,320
And I was so frustrated anyway.
And on and on.

485
00:29:33,480 --> 00:29:37,520
I had never felt despair until
that time.

486
00:29:37,920 --> 00:29:41,720
And not to say my life was easy
because I lived through my

487
00:29:41,720 --> 00:29:43,560
parents divorce and that was
awful.

488
00:29:43,560 --> 00:29:48,280
But spiritually, you know, I
just was like, what is happening

489
00:29:48,280 --> 00:29:50,160
here?
And so I remember going to a

490
00:29:50,160 --> 00:29:54,240
little district meeting and my
sweet little district missionary

491
00:29:54,240 --> 00:29:58,720
elder, he said, you know,
hermana, which means sister,

492
00:29:58,720 --> 00:30:00,800
He's like sister, you know what,
what's going on?

493
00:30:00,800 --> 00:30:03,680
You don't seem like yourself.
And I said, oh, I'm fine.

494
00:30:03,680 --> 00:30:06,120
You know, he's like, no, what's
going on?

495
00:30:06,120 --> 00:30:09,040
And so I'm like, OK, you know,
it's a mom.

496
00:30:09,560 --> 00:30:11,360
I'm telling him, you know how
I'm feeling.

497
00:30:11,360 --> 00:30:16,560
And he says, huh, that is so
interesting and thank you.

498
00:30:16,560 --> 00:30:18,720
I'm so glad that you've had to
go through that.

499
00:30:18,720 --> 00:30:22,080
And I'm like, what?
And he says, no, thank you for

500
00:30:22,080 --> 00:30:27,560
sharing that with me because I
didn't understand why I was

501
00:30:27,560 --> 00:30:30,920
going through something very
similar until just now.

502
00:30:31,160 --> 00:30:35,880
The fact that I can relate to
you and know how you're feeling

503
00:30:36,440 --> 00:30:42,480
helps me to be a better servant,
to be able to help you more

504
00:30:42,480 --> 00:30:46,120
because I can truly empathize
with what you're feeling.

505
00:30:46,120 --> 00:30:50,320
And all of a sudden, both of us
were like, that's why Christ had

506
00:30:50,320 --> 00:30:54,360
to suffer so that he could
sucker us, right?

507
00:30:54,560 --> 00:31:00,200
So that he, he truly knew our
thoughts and our feelings, which

508
00:31:00,200 --> 00:31:04,960
is what led him to bleed from
every pore that I can't even

509
00:31:04,960 --> 00:31:10,840
imagine that kind of suffering
that your, your soul and your

510
00:31:10,840 --> 00:31:14,600
body are crying out physically
in blood.

511
00:31:15,400 --> 00:31:18,200
Not to get all graphic, but, you
know, it was at that moment that

512
00:31:18,200 --> 00:31:22,400
I thought that's the value of
going through some of those

513
00:31:22,400 --> 00:31:24,200
things.
And he said not to brag or

514
00:31:24,200 --> 00:31:26,680
anything.
He said, but maybe someday I'll

515
00:31:26,680 --> 00:31:30,240
be a Bishop and I'll have
married couples coming to me who

516
00:31:30,240 --> 00:31:33,600
aren't getting along or I'll
have, you know, other situations

517
00:31:33,600 --> 00:31:37,040
where people are struggling and
I'll know what that feels like.

518
00:31:37,280 --> 00:31:41,520
And I'll be able to cry with
them and, and hopefully help

519
00:31:41,520 --> 00:31:44,880
them.
And I was just like, OK, I get

520
00:31:44,880 --> 00:31:46,840
it now.
And I don't know that I really

521
00:31:46,840 --> 00:31:49,280
fully got that until that
moment.

522
00:31:49,680 --> 00:31:53,000
So I think that that those
struggles, those challenges are

523
00:31:53,160 --> 00:31:57,040
incredibly purposeful in our
lives, even though we don't want

524
00:31:57,040 --> 00:31:59,600
to do it.
I I would never wish all those

525
00:31:59,840 --> 00:32:03,640
horrible moments on anybody, but
they're what bring us to our

526
00:32:03,640 --> 00:32:07,800
knees and they're what bring us
humility and hopefully lead us

527
00:32:07,800 --> 00:32:10,640
to Christ, right?
Absolutely.

528
00:32:10,680 --> 00:32:13,760
And you, you know, you brought
up another good point here,

529
00:32:14,680 --> 00:32:18,800
which is you were able to share
your experience with that

530
00:32:18,800 --> 00:32:21,640
district leader.
Let's look at Jonah, right?

531
00:32:22,480 --> 00:32:28,160
Jonah on the surface as a
natural man probably wouldn't be

532
00:32:28,160 --> 00:32:30,720
super happy that he was known
from running from God and

533
00:32:30,720 --> 00:32:34,480
getting swallowed by a whale,
probably not what he was

534
00:32:34,480 --> 00:32:37,560
thinking.
So I think as people, especially

535
00:32:37,560 --> 00:32:39,720
as men, men are, are doubly this
way.

536
00:32:40,360 --> 00:32:42,800
We're like, no, we're good, we
got this.

537
00:32:42,800 --> 00:32:46,480
I'm fine, I have no issues.
We're good, let's carry on.

538
00:32:46,960 --> 00:32:52,920
But I think we, we do, we do a,
we do a good service.

539
00:32:53,040 --> 00:32:54,880
We don't do a good service in
doing that.

540
00:32:55,240 --> 00:32:58,200
And this is something that I've
had to think about myself a

541
00:32:58,200 --> 00:33:02,320
little bit, right?
If I don't share what I go

542
00:33:02,320 --> 00:33:08,760
through with people who ask or
people who are close to me, or,

543
00:33:09,080 --> 00:33:12,560
you know, if I'm only bearing
testimony of the shiny happy

544
00:33:12,560 --> 00:33:17,920
things with, with how I, I got
there and, and excuse me, not

545
00:33:18,160 --> 00:33:20,840
how I got there.
Am I being as effective as I

546
00:33:20,840 --> 00:33:23,520
could, could be and ministering
to other people?

547
00:33:23,840 --> 00:33:28,360
I'm not saying just always spill
your guts, but let people in a

548
00:33:28,360 --> 00:33:31,040
little bit.
Let them see what you're going

549
00:33:31,040 --> 00:33:35,680
through because it's out of that
suffering that we find a lot of

550
00:33:35,680 --> 00:33:40,560
beauty.
It's I call it the Facebook

551
00:33:40,560 --> 00:33:43,680
paradox, right?
You go on to Facebook and

552
00:33:43,720 --> 00:33:48,320
everybody is having their best
day ever, but you never see what

553
00:33:48,320 --> 00:33:53,600
it takes to get there, right?
Like the mom, the young mother

554
00:33:53,600 --> 00:33:55,920
who looks like she's got her
crap together.

555
00:33:56,160 --> 00:33:59,600
She's, she's just got her two
hour gym session done.

556
00:33:59,920 --> 00:34:02,960
She's, you know, her house is
always put together.

557
00:34:03,120 --> 00:34:07,320
What everybody else doesn't see,
however, is how she got there

558
00:34:07,720 --> 00:34:11,560
and, and the truthfulness of, of
how she gets to that moment is

559
00:34:11,560 --> 00:34:14,600
going to look a lot different.
It's not going to show her

560
00:34:14,600 --> 00:34:17,000
yelling at her kids to pick up
the house, right?

561
00:34:17,199 --> 00:34:20,320
Or show her waking up in the
morning and just being

562
00:34:20,320 --> 00:34:22,800
disheveled.
Everybody's having their best

563
00:34:22,800 --> 00:34:27,400
day on Facebook all the time.
And I think it's important that

564
00:34:27,400 --> 00:34:31,639
we, we recognize that.
So there's value in sharing

565
00:34:31,639 --> 00:34:34,639
what, what you're going through,
even the parts that are hard.

566
00:34:35,000 --> 00:34:38,880
I think scripture really
illustrates that for us in, in

567
00:34:38,880 --> 00:34:42,960
Christ life and in other places
to show us that it's OK to do

568
00:34:42,960 --> 00:34:48,320
this.
And for a while I, I, I really

569
00:34:48,320 --> 00:34:51,800
closed off from that because I
didn't want to, to show any of

570
00:34:51,800 --> 00:34:56,840
my weaknesses.
I thought that, I thought in

571
00:34:56,840 --> 00:35:01,440
Mosiah, where we're kind of
commanded to do that right,

572
00:35:01,440 --> 00:35:05,200
that, that we got to be willing
to mourn with those that mourn.

573
00:35:05,520 --> 00:35:08,800
And I I think that that that's
the point it's trying to

574
00:35:08,800 --> 00:35:12,160
illustrate.
I think you make an excellent

575
00:35:12,160 --> 00:35:15,440
point that we were placed here
on this earth alone.

576
00:35:15,520 --> 00:35:19,200
I mean, we could have been, you
know, here, live, live your life

577
00:35:19,760 --> 00:35:22,680
alone.
We'd all do pretty well, you

578
00:35:22,680 --> 00:35:28,240
know, But the goal was to have
us be together to help each

579
00:35:28,240 --> 00:35:35,520
other, to learn how to help each
other because eternity isn't,

580
00:35:35,560 --> 00:35:37,760
you know, you're not going to be
alone.

581
00:35:37,880 --> 00:35:42,520
It's it's a family affair.
It's a, a community affair.

582
00:35:42,560 --> 00:35:45,400
You know, we are commanded to
fellowship one another.

583
00:35:45,400 --> 00:35:47,480
Anyway, I think that that's a
really good point.

584
00:35:47,480 --> 00:35:51,800
Thank you for making that.
So real quick, do you want, I, I

585
00:35:51,800 --> 00:35:55,160
don't want you to give away the
whole book because outside of

586
00:35:55,160 --> 00:35:58,160
consecration in United Order,
I'm a pretty big fan of

587
00:35:58,160 --> 00:36:00,640
capitalism.
I, I think it's done wonders

588
00:36:00,640 --> 00:36:04,120
for, for humanity in general.
So I, I want people to go buy

589
00:36:04,120 --> 00:36:07,560
the book.
However, I would, if you

590
00:36:07,560 --> 00:36:11,760
wouldn't mind, maybe I'd like
you to share maybe one or two of

591
00:36:11,760 --> 00:36:13,480
your favorite insights from the
book.

592
00:36:14,480 --> 00:36:16,200
From this book.
Yes.

593
00:36:16,440 --> 00:36:23,520
This one, here's an insight not
new to me, but it might be new

594
00:36:23,520 --> 00:36:28,680
to somebody listening as you go.
Have you been to Jerusalem, by

595
00:36:28,680 --> 00:36:30,120
the way?
I have not.

596
00:36:30,160 --> 00:36:34,080
It's on my short list, but but
and and I got to get that done

597
00:36:34,080 --> 00:36:36,680
or else I'm I'm never going to
get there because things keep

598
00:36:36,680 --> 00:36:38,600
getting dicey in that region of
the world.

599
00:36:38,960 --> 00:36:41,280
I know.
So way back when I was an

600
00:36:41,280 --> 00:36:46,200
undergrad at BYU, my twin sister
and I signed up to do BYU study

601
00:36:46,200 --> 00:36:48,760
abroad and it got cancelled
because there was terrorism

602
00:36:48,760 --> 00:36:51,080
going on.
And the next year we tried again

603
00:36:51,080 --> 00:36:53,240
and it got cancelled again
because there was terrorism.

604
00:36:53,240 --> 00:36:56,080
I mean, that's kind of how it
always is over there.

605
00:36:56,520 --> 00:36:59,560
And I just feel so grateful I
was able to catch a little

606
00:36:59,560 --> 00:37:04,760
window of relative safety.
Although like 2 days before we

607
00:37:04,920 --> 00:37:09,720
flew into Jerusalem, there were
shots fired on Temple Mount

608
00:37:09,720 --> 00:37:11,560
even.
And I'm like, Oh no, should we

609
00:37:11,560 --> 00:37:14,880
cancel?
And you know, our tour guide at

610
00:37:14,880 --> 00:37:18,480
the time was like, now this
happens all the time, but it is

611
00:37:19,000 --> 00:37:21,440
scary.
In fact, I was going to lead a

612
00:37:21,440 --> 00:37:26,600
group in October to Israel and 1
by 1, all of the guests were

613
00:37:26,600 --> 00:37:29,200
pulling out because they're
like, it's too scary.

614
00:37:29,200 --> 00:37:32,120
And I'm like, pull out.
I'm not going to go.

615
00:37:32,560 --> 00:37:34,800
I'm not going to send anybody if
it's not safe.

616
00:37:35,520 --> 00:37:37,480
So we didn't, we cancelled the
whole thing.

617
00:37:37,480 --> 00:37:39,960
And I'm bummed about that
because I would love to go back.

618
00:37:39,960 --> 00:37:44,760
But what, but what I was going
to say, the insight that I that

619
00:37:44,840 --> 00:37:52,240
I wanted to share was I've been
to cathedrals and churches,

620
00:37:52,800 --> 00:37:55,760
synagogues, mosques all around
the world.

621
00:37:55,760 --> 00:38:00,320
I guess I love that.
I absolutely love experiencing

622
00:38:00,320 --> 00:38:05,520
other religions and different
faiths and the architecture,

623
00:38:05,520 --> 00:38:08,720
language, music, all of it.
I love all of that.

624
00:38:09,400 --> 00:38:13,200
And so when you go to Israel or
when you go in Jerusalem

625
00:38:13,200 --> 00:38:16,520
specifically, it's divided into
four quarters.

626
00:38:16,720 --> 00:38:20,120
There's the Christian quarter,
the Muslim quarter, the Jewish

627
00:38:20,120 --> 00:38:24,040
quarter, and then the Armenian
quarter, which seems super

628
00:38:24,040 --> 00:38:29,680
random, but they were the first
country really to become a

629
00:38:29,680 --> 00:38:32,280
Christian country.
And so somehow they got their

630
00:38:32,280 --> 00:38:35,520
own quarter.
But anyway, a lot of these

631
00:38:35,520 --> 00:38:42,240
stations specifically for the
Via Dolorosa are maintained and

632
00:38:42,240 --> 00:38:46,200
run by the Roman Catholic
Church, some by the Armenian

633
00:38:46,200 --> 00:38:50,800
Church and then a few other
denominations.

634
00:38:50,800 --> 00:38:54,560
But Christian denominations,
including this Church of the

635
00:38:54,560 --> 00:38:59,320
Holy Sepulchre, which is shared
by the Greek Orthodox, I think

636
00:38:59,320 --> 00:39:01,640
it was the Armenian and the
Roman Catholic Church.

637
00:39:01,920 --> 00:39:06,760
And they all take ownership, not
legally, but ownership in that

638
00:39:06,920 --> 00:39:11,320
they all work together.
They take turns worshipping in

639
00:39:11,320 --> 00:39:15,080
their certain areas of that
church building itself.

640
00:39:15,920 --> 00:39:20,040
They take turns cleaning it.
And there's this really cute a

641
00:39:20,160 --> 00:39:25,840
physical joke when you walk into
the entrance, way up high,

642
00:39:25,840 --> 00:39:31,720
there's a ladder and it's just
sitting kind of on a mantle

643
00:39:33,320 --> 00:39:37,480
going up to like another window.
And I thought, well, that's

644
00:39:37,640 --> 00:39:40,600
super random.
And later, when I researched it,

645
00:39:41,280 --> 00:39:44,480
the reason it's still there and
it is centuries old, it's a

646
00:39:44,480 --> 00:39:47,880
wooden ladder, is because all of
these churches have to get

647
00:39:47,880 --> 00:39:51,840
together and decide by policy
how they're going to take care

648
00:39:51,840 --> 00:39:54,400
of this building physically.
You know, who's going to clean

649
00:39:54,400 --> 00:39:56,640
it, who's going to worship at
this time and who's going to

650
00:39:56,640 --> 00:39:58,440
light the candles and who's
paying for that?

651
00:39:58,440 --> 00:40:01,320
You know, and as a group, they
work together.

652
00:40:01,320 --> 00:40:06,080
And I think that's so fantastic.
But they could not agree on what

653
00:40:06,080 --> 00:40:08,920
should be done with this ladder.
Do we put it, take it down?

654
00:40:08,920 --> 00:40:10,880
Do we leave it up?
Who owns it?

655
00:40:10,880 --> 00:40:13,360
What do we?
They use it for and so for lack

656
00:40:13,360 --> 00:40:16,760
of being able to agree that
ladder is still there on that

657
00:40:16,760 --> 00:40:19,440
facade of the building, which I
just think is really cute.

658
00:40:19,760 --> 00:40:24,240
But what I was going to say is a
lot of members of the church,

659
00:40:24,520 --> 00:40:32,240
Mormons specifically, when we go
in it, it's, well, how I have to

660
00:40:32,360 --> 00:40:39,280
say this delicately because our
temples are very light and airy

661
00:40:39,280 --> 00:40:45,440
and white and symbolically so
because those things evoke

662
00:40:45,440 --> 00:40:49,640
certain images and feelings and
teach a certain gospel

663
00:40:49,640 --> 00:40:53,080
principles, right?
And so in many Catholic

664
00:40:53,080 --> 00:40:57,880
cathedrals, they're very dark.
You can often smell incense or

665
00:40:57,880 --> 00:41:02,640
there is incense swinging, You
know, there are candles.

666
00:41:03,080 --> 00:41:05,880
And it's just not the same
aesthetic.

667
00:41:05,880 --> 00:41:10,120
And so I've heard many members
of the church say, oh, I cannot

668
00:41:10,120 --> 00:41:14,320
feel the Holy Ghost or I can't
feel the Spirit when I'm in a

669
00:41:14,720 --> 00:41:17,720
cathedral like that.
It's dark and it feels

670
00:41:17,720 --> 00:41:20,640
oppressive and, you know, it's
not good.

671
00:41:21,120 --> 00:41:27,120
And I always say, oh, contraire
my prayer, you know, that was

672
00:41:27,120 --> 00:41:30,200
terrible French.
I, I totally disagree.

673
00:41:30,200 --> 00:41:34,720
I have felt the spirit in all of
those places along the stations.

674
00:41:34,960 --> 00:41:39,440
I have felt them in many other
cathedrals and in synagogues and

675
00:41:39,680 --> 00:41:45,200
in mosques that I've been in.
Because if you're looking for

676
00:41:45,200 --> 00:41:50,400
this spirit and you're sensitive
to it and you want to feel it,

677
00:41:50,920 --> 00:41:55,040
the, the Spirit's, the Holy
Ghost's goal mission is to

678
00:41:55,040 --> 00:41:59,600
testify of truth, right?
And I love you because you are

679
00:41:59,600 --> 00:42:04,440
open to truth wherever it comes
from, right?

680
00:42:04,840 --> 00:42:09,440
And so I was just going to say,
if you do go to Jerusalem and

681
00:42:09,440 --> 00:42:13,080
you end up at this final station
and this church, it has all of

682
00:42:13,080 --> 00:42:15,720
those darker elements and the
paintings and the oils and the

683
00:42:15,720 --> 00:42:20,800
smells and all of that.
And yet it is beautiful.

684
00:42:20,800 --> 00:42:27,160
And there's so many lessons that
you can glean by just physically

685
00:42:27,160 --> 00:42:30,240
being there.
And before we started filming,

686
00:42:30,240 --> 00:42:33,120
you and I started talking about
that expression that's become

687
00:42:33,320 --> 00:42:35,320
really popular now in
Christianity.

688
00:42:35,480 --> 00:42:40,040
It's called holy envy.
And, and you said you were

689
00:42:40,040 --> 00:42:42,040
familiar with that.
Do you know how that expression

690
00:42:42,040 --> 00:42:43,960
came to be?
Do you know the story behind

691
00:42:43,960 --> 00:42:45,560
that?
I don't.

692
00:42:46,560 --> 00:42:50,680
So the The Church of Jesus
Christ of Latter Day Saints was

693
00:42:50,680 --> 00:42:55,040
getting ready to build a temple
in Stockholm, Sweden.

694
00:42:55,160 --> 00:42:58,720
And I've been to that temple.
It's not even this big massive

695
00:42:58,720 --> 00:43:02,200
structure.
It's very simple and very sweet.

696
00:43:03,160 --> 00:43:09,480
And the community around was
alarmed and not sure what to

697
00:43:09,480 --> 00:43:14,040
expect and not sure what it
meant to have a Mormon temple in

698
00:43:14,040 --> 00:43:16,880
their community.
And so there were debates and

699
00:43:16,880 --> 00:43:20,240
some protesting and you know,
that often happens.

700
00:43:21,160 --> 00:43:24,360
I I just moved from Las Vegas
and we were getting ready to

701
00:43:24,360 --> 00:43:26,800
build our second temple.
And I just thought this was

702
00:43:26,800 --> 00:43:30,080
hilarious.
The the neighbors where this

703
00:43:30,080 --> 00:43:34,120
temple is going to be built
protested that the lights would

704
00:43:34,120 --> 00:43:38,160
be too bright.
And I was like, we live in Las

705
00:43:38,160 --> 00:43:40,280
Vegas.
You realize that, right?

706
00:43:42,080 --> 00:43:44,520
And that was a big argument, you
know.

707
00:43:45,080 --> 00:43:50,600
But anyway, so it was a Swedish,
Swedish Bishop who actually was

708
00:43:50,600 --> 00:43:54,400
the the Dean of Divinity School
of Harvard at some point.

709
00:43:54,640 --> 00:43:58,360
But then he became a Bishop in
Stockholm.

710
00:43:58,680 --> 00:44:01,120
And he said, oh, hold on,
everybody.

711
00:44:01,680 --> 00:44:05,840
Do you even know all the good
that can come to your community?

712
00:44:05,840 --> 00:44:10,200
When Mormons build a temple,
they're known for service and

713
00:44:10,200 --> 00:44:14,560
family and love and kindness and
peace.

714
00:44:14,560 --> 00:44:18,880
And he went on and on and said,
we want that in our community.

715
00:44:18,880 --> 00:44:22,160
That will be a huge blessing to
our community.

716
00:44:22,160 --> 00:44:25,240
And then he introduced this
phrase that he coined called

717
00:44:25,240 --> 00:44:28,880
holy envy.
And he said, I have holy envy

718
00:44:28,880 --> 00:44:31,640
for the Mormons for all of these
good things.

719
00:44:31,640 --> 00:44:33,600
You know, they were Boy Scouts
or, you know, all the things

720
00:44:33,600 --> 00:44:36,200
that he listed.
And then he said, but I also

721
00:44:36,200 --> 00:44:42,320
have holy envy for the Jews for
how devout they are to the

722
00:44:42,320 --> 00:44:45,000
commandments.
And I have holy envy to the for

723
00:44:45,000 --> 00:44:49,960
the Muslims for how committed
they are to daily prayer five

724
00:44:49,960 --> 00:44:53,240
times a day, you know.
And then he listed other

725
00:44:53,240 --> 00:44:57,920
religious groups and
denominations and said, surely

726
00:44:57,920 --> 00:45:02,320
we can make room in our faith
for admiring and respecting the

727
00:45:02,320 --> 00:45:07,440
good in other religions, right?
And and you, my friend, are such

728
00:45:07,440 --> 00:45:10,560
a great example of that because
as you and I were talking about

729
00:45:10,560 --> 00:45:14,760
earlier, you know, you are so
open and willing to accept truth

730
00:45:14,760 --> 00:45:17,480
from wherever it comes.
And so I love that.

731
00:45:17,480 --> 00:45:22,480
And so maybe that was my insight
as I worked on this book was I

732
00:45:22,480 --> 00:45:27,880
just, I sang hymns with people
from other religions in Israel,

733
00:45:27,880 --> 00:45:30,480
where, you know, all the various
sites that I went to.

734
00:45:30,480 --> 00:45:33,560
And and then there were people
singing in other languages and

735
00:45:33,560 --> 00:45:36,240
they would sing and then our
group would sing back to them in

736
00:45:36,240 --> 00:45:39,000
English.
And we didn't know what the

737
00:45:39,000 --> 00:45:42,800
words were, but we all knew we
were there to worship and

738
00:45:42,800 --> 00:45:45,800
celebrate Jesus Christ.
And I loved that.

739
00:45:46,200 --> 00:45:52,200
And I just fell in love with the
Jews even more by watching how

740
00:45:52,200 --> 00:45:57,320
they behaved in Jerusalem
specifically.

741
00:45:57,320 --> 00:46:04,200
So if you get to go someday, try
to go on a Friday, because

742
00:46:04,200 --> 00:46:09,880
Friday morning is where
thousands of Muslims go to the

743
00:46:09,880 --> 00:46:14,960
Temple Mount.
Two of the most sacred buildings

744
00:46:15,000 --> 00:46:18,360
in Islam are on the Temple
Mount.

745
00:46:18,600 --> 00:46:22,760
One is the Alaska Mosque and one
is the Dome of the Rock.

746
00:46:23,120 --> 00:46:28,080
And so they fill the streets of
the Old City of Jerusalem,

747
00:46:28,080 --> 00:46:32,760
heading to Temple Mount to pray
and to worship and to do all

748
00:46:32,760 --> 00:46:37,040
their special Sabbath.
We don't call it Sabbath, but

749
00:46:37,040 --> 00:46:40,960
you know their special day.
And then soon as they're done,

750
00:46:40,960 --> 00:46:44,600
they leave.
It's a mass exodus of the old

751
00:46:44,600 --> 00:46:48,040
city.
And then the Jews pour into the

752
00:46:48,040 --> 00:46:53,880
Old City, and they also head to
not on top of the Temple Mount

753
00:46:53,880 --> 00:46:58,240
because there are policies that
prevent them from going.

754
00:46:59,160 --> 00:47:02,800
Even as Christians, we were not
allowed to open our scriptures

755
00:47:03,040 --> 00:47:05,040
and read them on the Temple
Mount.

756
00:47:05,400 --> 00:47:09,640
And so anyway, so they don't go
on top of the Temple Mount, but

757
00:47:09,640 --> 00:47:14,080
they go to the Temple wall or
what they believe is the, yeah,

758
00:47:14,080 --> 00:47:17,000
the Western Wall.
It's called the Wailing Wall

759
00:47:17,000 --> 00:47:19,520
sometimes.
And they believe that that's the

760
00:47:19,520 --> 00:47:24,080
last remaining wall of the
Second Temple, right?

761
00:47:24,320 --> 00:47:28,600
And then they begin their
Shabbat, their Sabbath service.

762
00:47:29,040 --> 00:47:33,560
And one thing that I saw there
that was just amazing to me,

763
00:47:34,000 --> 00:47:38,920
especially as I compared it to
how people of my faith worship

764
00:47:39,280 --> 00:47:43,440
the Sabbath day.
You know, as Mormons, we tend to

765
00:47:43,440 --> 00:47:48,320
be very reverent, right?
The Sabbath day, it's just, you

766
00:47:48,320 --> 00:47:53,360
know, you're very reverent and
quiet, and you sing hymns and

767
00:47:53,360 --> 00:47:55,920
you give serious talks at
church.

768
00:47:55,960 --> 00:47:57,720
You know, it's just very
reverent.

769
00:47:57,960 --> 00:48:03,640
That's just the big word.
But I saw exuberant joy at the

770
00:48:03,640 --> 00:48:07,560
Western Wall.
It was just amazing.

771
00:48:09,600 --> 00:48:13,000
I don't know how much you want
me to spend talking about this

772
00:48:13,000 --> 00:48:16,080
one experience, but it was kind
of life changing for me.

773
00:48:16,200 --> 00:48:19,840
First of all, you see all of the
Jews coming in wearing all of

774
00:48:19,840 --> 00:48:23,840
their fun different outfits
depending on which type of Jew

775
00:48:23,840 --> 00:48:26,880
they are.
And they're Orthodox or Hasidic.

776
00:48:26,880 --> 00:48:30,640
And they have different hats and
hairdos and robes and black

777
00:48:30,640 --> 00:48:33,480
trees on their forehead, you
know, prayer shawls, the whole

778
00:48:33,480 --> 00:48:38,040
thing, whatever it is.
Oh, I think my, oh, my son just

779
00:48:38,040 --> 00:48:42,840
came in from the front door.
And I love that because, you

780
00:48:42,840 --> 00:48:47,560
know, a lot of religions have
something that they wear, but

781
00:48:47,560 --> 00:48:50,760
oftentimes they're embarrassed
or shy.

782
00:48:50,880 --> 00:48:53,120
Hey, honey.
Oh, awesome.

783
00:48:53,360 --> 00:48:55,440
Thanks.
I've been doing a podcast, OK?

784
00:48:56,440 --> 00:48:59,120
This was at.
The door Oh, thanks, A little

785
00:48:59,120 --> 00:49:01,080
Christmas gift at my door.
That's so awesome.

786
00:49:02,280 --> 00:49:07,800
Anyway, and they just, they pour
in and they're wearing all this

787
00:49:07,800 --> 00:49:11,840
stuff and they're just, I love
all of the outfits and they're

788
00:49:11,840 --> 00:49:14,160
proud and they're happy about
it.

789
00:49:14,560 --> 00:49:19,440
And, you know, members of the
church have garments that we

790
00:49:19,440 --> 00:49:24,160
wear and a lot of members are
embarrassed or they don't wear

791
00:49:24,160 --> 00:49:28,160
them correctly or they don't
wear them at all, you know, and

792
00:49:28,160 --> 00:49:30,000
I'm like, and that's underneath
our clothes.

793
00:49:30,000 --> 00:49:33,840
Nobody even sees that.
And yet the Jews are, you know,

794
00:49:33,840 --> 00:49:37,080
just proud to show that they are
on Team God, you know, and I

795
00:49:37,080 --> 00:49:41,360
love that about them.
And so then a bunch of teenage

796
00:49:41,360 --> 00:49:47,400
boys came and out like right up
against the wall, people are

797
00:49:47,400 --> 00:49:49,760
worshipping.
And then there's this massive

798
00:49:49,760 --> 00:49:54,160
concrete area.
And so these schools, they were

799
00:49:54,160 --> 00:49:56,640
Jewish schools that were
bringing in all these teenage

800
00:49:56,640 --> 00:49:59,400
boys and they had their arms
around each other and they're

801
00:49:59,400 --> 00:50:01,840
singing and they're dancing and
they're putting each other up on

802
00:50:01,840 --> 00:50:05,320
their shoulders and they're
worshipping the Sabbath.

803
00:50:05,760 --> 00:50:08,800
And I'm like, that's kind of
different from the Mormon

804
00:50:08,800 --> 00:50:12,320
teenage boys that I know, you
know, because again, we're so

805
00:50:12,320 --> 00:50:14,680
reverent.
But they were like cheering for

806
00:50:14,680 --> 00:50:17,520
God and singing songs.
And, you know, I didn't know

807
00:50:17,520 --> 00:50:21,320
everything they were saying, but
I was just like, wow, that's

808
00:50:21,320 --> 00:50:24,400
celebrating the Sabbath.
That's amazing.

809
00:50:24,960 --> 00:50:28,880
And then have you ever seen
pictures of the Western Wall?

810
00:50:28,880 --> 00:50:33,200
There's like a division and so
men are worshiping on one side

811
00:50:33,200 --> 00:50:35,720
and the women are worshiping on
the other side.

812
00:50:36,080 --> 00:50:43,480
And so generally you walk in and
but it's outdoor, so I shouldn't

813
00:50:43,480 --> 00:50:45,760
say you walk in, but there's
kind of a little gate kind of a

814
00:50:45,760 --> 00:50:47,680
thing.
But anyway, you walk up to the

815
00:50:47,680 --> 00:50:54,640
wall and then it is one of the
most important things you could

816
00:50:54,640 --> 00:50:57,840
do as a Jew is to study the
Torah.

817
00:50:58,320 --> 00:51:02,440
And the Torah is the first five
books of the Old Testament.

818
00:51:02,440 --> 00:51:07,560
We call it the Pentateuch also.
And those are the commandments.

819
00:51:07,560 --> 00:51:10,880
And they are so faithful about
not just reading the

820
00:51:10,880 --> 00:51:13,200
commandments, but really
studying.

821
00:51:13,480 --> 00:51:19,440
And there's this really cool
word called Haggah in Hebrew and

822
00:51:20,200 --> 00:51:25,040
the definition that as I studied
with a rabbi, he said, it's kind

823
00:51:25,040 --> 00:51:27,720
of like you're tasting the
scriptures.

824
00:51:28,000 --> 00:51:32,640
You're not just reading them,
but you're you're meditating,

825
00:51:32,840 --> 00:51:38,520
you're ingesting them into your
soul as you're pondering them

826
00:51:38,520 --> 00:51:42,160
and reflecting.
And I love that in the Book of

827
00:51:42,160 --> 00:51:48,120
Mormon, we learn that we should
kind of taste the scriptures as

828
00:51:48,120 --> 00:51:50,560
well.
Feast of the Scriptures, right,

829
00:51:50,560 --> 00:51:53,120
is what the Book of Mormon
encourages us to do.

830
00:51:53,400 --> 00:51:57,920
And so there's this rocking
motion because they also believe

831
00:51:57,920 --> 00:52:02,440
that if you're really ingesting
and pondering and meditating,

832
00:52:02,640 --> 00:52:08,000
that your whole body is into it.
And I love that imagery.

833
00:52:08,480 --> 00:52:12,120
And so you see the Jewish men
and they're holding the Torah,

834
00:52:12,320 --> 00:52:13,920
they're reading it, they're
rocking it.

835
00:52:13,920 --> 00:52:19,760
And part of that word also
connotes a murmuring of saying

836
00:52:19,760 --> 00:52:23,440
it out loud so that your soul
can hear it, but your ears can

837
00:52:23,440 --> 00:52:27,360
also hear the Scriptures.
I mean, talk about being all in,

838
00:52:27,360 --> 00:52:29,760
right?
The whole body and soul are

839
00:52:29,760 --> 00:52:31,720
engaged.
And I love that.

840
00:52:32,160 --> 00:52:35,760
And so women are not allowed on
that side.

841
00:52:35,760 --> 00:52:38,840
So my twin sister and I got to
travel there and so she or our

842
00:52:38,840 --> 00:52:41,680
husbands were hanging out with
the guys, you know, with the

843
00:52:41,680 --> 00:52:44,760
Jews and and they have a little
yamakas that you could put on

844
00:52:44,760 --> 00:52:48,000
your head if you don't have 1.
And so I have a picture of them

845
00:52:48,000 --> 00:52:50,480
standing there with all of these
wonderful Jewish men.

846
00:52:50,920 --> 00:52:53,440
And then so we went to the
women's side and it's really

847
00:52:53,440 --> 00:52:55,800
just kind of a curtain wall kind
of a thing.

848
00:52:56,200 --> 00:53:00,280
And the women don't have all the
outfit stuff, you know, that the

849
00:53:00,280 --> 00:53:04,640
men have, but generally they'll
wear a shawl over their heads.

850
00:53:04,640 --> 00:53:07,280
And we, my sister and I, brought
1 so that we could be

851
00:53:07,280 --> 00:53:10,280
respectful.
And so, you know, we put the

852
00:53:10,280 --> 00:53:13,920
shawl over.
And I remember as a little girl,

853
00:53:14,880 --> 00:53:17,960
I don't know where.
It must have been, some TV show

854
00:53:17,960 --> 00:53:22,000
or movie or something where I
saw people worshipping at the

855
00:53:22,000 --> 00:53:25,640
Western Wall.
And I saw all the slips of paper

856
00:53:26,160 --> 00:53:30,120
with prayers and notes put
inside the rocks.

857
00:53:30,120 --> 00:53:32,440
You know what I'm talking about.
I know exactly what you're

858
00:53:32,440 --> 00:53:33,600
talking.
About yeah.

859
00:53:33,600 --> 00:53:36,400
And I was like, I want to do
that.

860
00:53:36,400 --> 00:53:40,520
And so this is was a just a
dream in the making.

861
00:53:40,520 --> 00:53:44,640
I had my little letter prepared
and she and I read our letters

862
00:53:44,640 --> 00:53:47,680
to each other and we cried and
we're like, we're here.

863
00:53:47,680 --> 00:53:51,200
We're finally here, you know,
and so we put them in the rocks

864
00:53:51,200 --> 00:53:55,040
and we were just so excited.
And, and then after that we kind

865
00:53:55,040 --> 00:54:01,640
of sat down just to kind of
observe and the men, you know,

866
00:54:01,680 --> 00:54:04,400
you definitely see that rocking
motion.

867
00:54:04,720 --> 00:54:09,200
And with the women, not as much.
But there was this cute young

868
00:54:09,200 --> 00:54:12,720
girl and we called her a beehive
because she looked like she was

869
00:54:12,720 --> 00:54:15,000
12 or 13.
Do you remember back in the

870
00:54:15,000 --> 00:54:17,360
church I.
I remember what a beehive was.

871
00:54:17,360 --> 00:54:19,160
Yeah, I had.
Several daughters who were a

872
00:54:19,160 --> 00:54:23,560
beehive so I I get.
It so 12 and 13 year old girls,

873
00:54:23,560 --> 00:54:27,240
right so that's what she looked
like and it must have been her

874
00:54:27,240 --> 00:54:32,960
first time because she looked
unsure of herself She kind of

875
00:54:32,960 --> 00:54:36,160
slowly walked up approached the
wall, but she wasn't touching

876
00:54:36,160 --> 00:54:37,520
the wall.
She was kind of standing back

877
00:54:37,760 --> 00:54:41,320
and she kind of kept glancing
over to see if she was doing it

878
00:54:41,320 --> 00:54:44,560
right and I, which I thought was
cute.

879
00:54:44,560 --> 00:54:48,600
There's no right way to do
religion, you know, or, or even

880
00:54:48,600 --> 00:54:51,560
worship in my opinion, you know,
but anyway.

881
00:54:51,560 --> 00:54:53,880
And so she's kind of looking
around and she had some

882
00:54:53,880 --> 00:54:56,680
scriptures because they have
them on tables for the women as

883
00:54:56,680 --> 00:54:59,400
well.
And she kind of started rocking

884
00:54:59,400 --> 00:55:01,000
and again, was kind of looking
around.

885
00:55:01,000 --> 00:55:04,440
And then, you know, we were busy
looking at other people and we

886
00:55:04,440 --> 00:55:08,560
kept glancing back at her.
Pretty soon, she was in her

887
00:55:08,600 --> 00:55:10,920
rocking mode.
She was in her groove.

888
00:55:11,200 --> 00:55:14,600
And you could tell she had
forgotten that everybody else

889
00:55:14,600 --> 00:55:16,760
was around.
She stopped looking around.

890
00:55:17,000 --> 00:55:20,760
She was worshipping.
And it was just a sight to

891
00:55:20,760 --> 00:55:23,040
behold.
I was so happy for her.

892
00:55:23,400 --> 00:55:27,040
And then a little bit later,
another teenage girl showed up.

893
00:55:27,240 --> 00:55:30,040
And there's, this is, you know,
women across the wall.

894
00:55:30,040 --> 00:55:34,000
It's a long space, but we were
just kind of focused on these

895
00:55:34,000 --> 00:55:37,720
two young girls for a time
because they were so fascinating

896
00:55:37,720 --> 00:55:40,680
to us.
So this other girl was a Laurel,

897
00:55:40,720 --> 00:55:44,400
what we would call a Laurel, you
know, 1617 year old girl.

898
00:55:44,720 --> 00:55:48,600
She was wearing all white and
she did not hesitate.

899
00:55:48,600 --> 00:55:50,600
She clearly had been there
before.

900
00:55:50,680 --> 00:55:56,160
Well, I think she walked up to
the wall and put her whole body

901
00:55:56,160 --> 00:55:58,680
on the wall.
Her feet were touching the wall.

902
00:55:58,680 --> 00:56:01,280
Her, you know, her whole body
was touching the wall, her

903
00:56:01,280 --> 00:56:06,640
hands, her face, and she just
started pouring her heart out to

904
00:56:06,640 --> 00:56:11,400
God.
And I was I, I can't even think

905
00:56:11,400 --> 00:56:16,120
of a good adjective to describe
or how I was even, you know,

906
00:56:16,120 --> 00:56:19,080
feeling.
I just was so overwhelmed.

907
00:56:19,320 --> 00:56:25,240
She was so all in and and I'm
going to get all the klimt,

908
00:56:25,920 --> 00:56:30,320
which is a Yiddish word for
teary eyed and and choked up.

909
00:56:31,520 --> 00:56:36,800
She just was so all in and I
thought that's what I need to

910
00:56:36,800 --> 00:56:39,040
be.
That's what I want to be.

911
00:56:39,400 --> 00:56:42,320
I don't want to be looking
around and making sure I'm doing

912
00:56:42,320 --> 00:56:46,520
religion right.
I want God to know I am there

913
00:56:46,520 --> 00:56:50,360
with him and I believe in him
and I hope in him and I'm

914
00:56:50,360 --> 00:56:53,280
grateful for Him and all of
those things.

915
00:56:53,280 --> 00:56:58,520
And I just loved that moment so
much and have not obviously

916
00:56:58,520 --> 00:57:02,760
forgotten about it.
I share that story in this book

917
00:57:03,600 --> 00:57:06,920
and this book, both books
because.

918
00:57:07,760 --> 00:57:11,640
It seems like that's a great
segue into the second book.

919
00:57:11,640 --> 00:57:15,800
But before we go to that second
book, I just want to unpack a

920
00:57:15,800 --> 00:57:21,040
few things here because I think
I think you're 100% correct that

921
00:57:22,800 --> 00:57:26,680
that that thing you said about
how maybe some Mormons might

922
00:57:26,680 --> 00:57:29,200
say, well, I can't feel the
spirit here, right?

923
00:57:29,520 --> 00:57:34,560
It it's, it's not there.
Well, look, I don't know how

924
00:57:34,560 --> 00:57:37,040
else to say this.
So I'm just going to put it

925
00:57:37,040 --> 00:57:41,680
bluntly.
If, if you, if you, if you're

926
00:57:41,680 --> 00:57:44,760
someplace and you can't feel the
spirit, that's kind of a you

927
00:57:44,760 --> 00:57:48,000
problem.
Now obviously you don't want to

928
00:57:48,000 --> 00:57:50,120
be going into a bar or something
like that, right?

929
00:57:50,960 --> 00:57:54,960
That would be a problem.
But if, if, if you're in a a

930
00:57:54,960 --> 00:58:01,040
place that is a sacred site and
you can't feel the Spirit, not

931
00:58:01,040 --> 00:58:04,360
always, but nine times out of
10, that's a you problem.

932
00:58:04,960 --> 00:58:08,120
Even if the Spirit wasn't there.
It's kind of our job as

933
00:58:08,120 --> 00:58:10,440
disciples of Christ to bring the
Spirit with us.

934
00:58:10,880 --> 00:58:16,880
So, so kind of get yourself in
that proper, proper headspace,

935
00:58:16,880 --> 00:58:18,840
right?
That, that, that proper heart

936
00:58:18,840 --> 00:58:22,800
space space, spiritually
speaking and, and you will feel

937
00:58:22,800 --> 00:58:24,800
the spear and you will get
there, right?

938
00:58:25,320 --> 00:58:27,680
So that that's what I'd say to
that.

939
00:58:28,840 --> 00:58:33,440
Granted, we are counseled to
stand in holy places, but

940
00:58:34,280 --> 00:58:37,480
anywhere the grocery store could
be a holy place if that's where

941
00:58:37,480 --> 00:58:40,320
you're feeling the Spirit or
your car or whatever.

942
00:58:40,320 --> 00:58:43,240
But I mean, you know, of course
you do want to.

943
00:58:44,560 --> 00:58:47,760
I mean, I wouldn't challenge
anybody to go to a bar and fill

944
00:58:47,760 --> 00:58:49,600
the Spirit, you know?
Sure, sure.

945
00:58:49,600 --> 00:58:51,800
Right.
There's absolutely there's

946
00:58:51,800 --> 00:58:57,000
reasons to that.
But by and large, we hear it all

947
00:58:57,000 --> 00:58:59,240
the time, right?
Sacrament memes are one of those

948
00:58:59,240 --> 00:59:03,840
things I think of a lot.
You'll hear guys who go to

949
00:59:03,840 --> 00:59:07,400
sacrament meeting and I'll say,
gosh, the the speaker didn't do

950
00:59:07,400 --> 00:59:10,800
a good job.
Well, had you been in the right

951
00:59:10,800 --> 00:59:14,280
place spiritually, the spirit
would have given you what you

952
00:59:14,280 --> 00:59:17,040
needed.
But you were, you were relying

953
00:59:17,040 --> 00:59:19,840
on somebody else to get you to
feel the spirit.

954
00:59:19,840 --> 00:59:22,000
That's nobody else's
responsibility.

955
00:59:22,320 --> 00:59:27,800
That's your responsibility to
put yourself into a position to

956
00:59:27,800 --> 00:59:32,240
where you can feel the spirit
and and be able to receive that

957
00:59:32,240 --> 00:59:35,200
revelation you need.
If you don't do that, you're

958
00:59:35,200 --> 00:59:37,520
just kind of signing yourself up
for disaster.

959
00:59:37,720 --> 00:59:40,520
You got to knock that off.
That's not going to work long

960
00:59:40,520 --> 00:59:43,640
term.
You never want to sacrifice

961
00:59:43,720 --> 00:59:48,120
your, your beliefs, your, your,
your principles, those things

962
00:59:48,120 --> 00:59:51,200
that you know to be true.
We never want to sacrifice that

963
00:59:51,200 --> 00:59:54,600
or or doctrine that we know to
be true, but that doesn't mean

964
00:59:54,600 --> 00:59:58,120
we can't learn from other people
of other faiths either.

965
00:59:59,520 --> 01:00:02,520
Look at sometimes I've looked at
Muslims and thought, man, I

966
01:00:02,520 --> 01:00:07,120
should be completely serious.
What would it look like if I was

967
01:00:07,120 --> 01:00:12,200
to try to pray five times a day,
very deliberately get into the

968
01:00:12,200 --> 01:00:16,440
to the ceremony and ritual of
prayer five times a day, even if

969
01:00:16,440 --> 01:00:18,840
they're not long prayers, could
that help me?

970
01:00:18,840 --> 01:00:22,000
I I don't see how praying more
is ever a bad thing.

971
01:00:22,880 --> 01:00:26,400
In fact, I think as Mormons,
we're commissioned to do that,

972
01:00:26,400 --> 01:00:28,920
right.
Joseph Smith said that all truth

973
01:00:28,920 --> 01:00:31,600
belongs to Mormonism.
Every bit of truth belongs to

974
01:00:31,600 --> 01:00:34,040
Mormonism.
It's our job to go out there and

975
01:00:34,040 --> 01:00:37,920
gather as much of that truth as
we can and incorporate it into

976
01:00:37,920 --> 01:00:40,720
our lives.
So I see nothing wrong with that

977
01:00:40,720 --> 01:00:45,400
idea of being able to learn from
others to your I'm not breaking

978
01:00:45,400 --> 01:00:48,160
any news here.
We live in spiritually perilous

979
01:00:48,160 --> 01:00:49,800
times.
It seems like danger is all

980
01:00:49,800 --> 01:00:52,720
around us or our family
spiritually all the time.

981
01:00:53,160 --> 01:00:55,160
But our God hasn't left us
defenseless.

982
01:00:55,360 --> 01:00:59,400
We read in Ephesians chapter 6
verse 17 and take the helmet of

983
01:00:59,400 --> 01:01:01,880
salvation and the sword of the
Spirit, which is the word of

984
01:01:01,880 --> 01:01:04,120
God.
So in our spiritual battles, the

985
01:01:04,120 --> 01:01:07,480
scriptures are our sword.
But just like real swords, not

986
01:01:07,480 --> 01:01:09,440
all Canon of scripture are made
equal.

987
01:01:09,680 --> 01:01:11,760
You need to make sure that
you're entering the battle with

988
01:01:11,760 --> 01:01:14,080
the right gear.
With that thought in mind, Drew

989
01:01:14,080 --> 01:01:16,920
Brownie and others have been
working on a project to bring

990
01:01:16,920 --> 01:01:19,520
you what is now being called the
Restored version of the

991
01:01:19,520 --> 01:01:22,200
Scriptures.
So what is the restored version

992
01:01:22,200 --> 01:01:24,640
of the Scriptures?
The Restored version is the most

993
01:01:24,640 --> 01:01:27,520
accurate, exhaustive,
comfortable to read a triple

994
01:01:27,520 --> 01:01:30,720
combination ever made.
It was designed to honor Joseph

995
01:01:30,720 --> 01:01:34,360
Smith's revelatory words and
edits through clean and accurate

996
01:01:34,360 --> 01:01:37,560
Joseph approved texts.
The restored version contains

997
01:01:37,600 --> 01:01:41,280
each book found in the modern
LDS triple combination that is

998
01:01:41,280 --> 01:01:44,000
the Book of Mormon, the Doctrine
and Covenants, and the Pearl.

999
01:01:44,000 --> 01:01:47,920
Great price, except it has
Joseph's original inspired text

1000
01:01:48,160 --> 01:01:51,600
and an easy to read format.
It restores was the Lectures on

1001
01:01:51,600 --> 01:01:53,880
Faith, which were removed in
1921.

1002
01:01:54,280 --> 01:01:58,320
It adds an additional 87
uncanonized revelations of

1003
01:01:58,320 --> 01:02:01,960
Joseph Smith, as well as 33
revelations received by Brigham

1004
01:02:01,960 --> 01:02:05,240
Young, John Taylor and Wilfred
Woodruff and other members of

1005
01:02:05,240 --> 01:02:08,040
the Quorum of the 12.
Each copy of the restored

1006
01:02:08,040 --> 01:02:11,760
version is built to last.
These scriptures look good, feel

1007
01:02:11,760 --> 01:02:14,040
comfortable, and are bound to
last.

1008
01:02:14,720 --> 01:02:18,280
The restored version uses cover
material that is ideal for for

1009
01:02:18,280 --> 01:02:21,960
high quality books that is both
hard wearing and soft and should

1010
01:02:21,960 --> 01:02:25,800
handle many years of use.
It has beautiful gold and silver

1011
01:02:25,800 --> 01:02:29,560
gilded edges.
It has sturdy, flexible binding,

1012
01:02:29,560 --> 01:02:32,640
making it so the book may
comfortably and safely be laid

1013
01:02:32,640 --> 01:02:35,880
on a desk.
It has reliable paper that is

1014
01:02:35,880 --> 01:02:39,360
very thin, yet sturdy and thick
enough that it's hard to see

1015
01:02:39,360 --> 01:02:42,520
through, and comes with marking
ribbons so that you never lose

1016
01:02:42,520 --> 01:02:45,040
your reading place.
Each copy of the restored

1017
01:02:45,040 --> 01:02:47,880
version are built with the
intent of lasting for years and

1018
01:02:47,880 --> 01:02:50,680
years, just like the LDS
versions of the triple

1019
01:02:50,680 --> 01:02:53,640
combination.
You might be asking yourself,

1020
01:02:53,640 --> 01:02:56,240
what are the benefits of owning
your own copy of the restored

1021
01:02:56,240 --> 01:02:59,040
version of the scriptures?
Well, how's this for starters?

1022
01:02:59,560 --> 01:03:01,800
Number one, the spiritual
significance.

1023
01:03:01,800 --> 01:03:05,160
The restored version contains
every known revelation of Joseph

1024
01:03:05,160 --> 01:03:09,120
Smith as well as those of his
first successors, the historical

1025
01:03:09,120 --> 01:03:11,600
significance.
While the foundational text for

1026
01:03:11,600 --> 01:03:14,600
the Restored Version is the
latest edition of each book of

1027
01:03:14,600 --> 01:03:17,960
Scripture that Joseph approved,
the Restored Version carefully

1028
01:03:17,960 --> 01:03:22,040
documents through footnotes,
italicized texts, every

1029
01:03:22,040 --> 01:03:26,320
substantive change made by
Joseph or his editing committee,

1030
01:03:26,320 --> 01:03:28,920
making the Restored Version a
truly original set of

1031
01:03:28,920 --> 01:03:32,320
Scriptures.
Formatting Significance The

1032
01:03:32,320 --> 01:03:35,680
Restored Version contains no
columns, no cumbersome Croft

1033
01:03:35,680 --> 01:03:39,760
references, and no paragraph
breaks at every verse just like

1034
01:03:39,760 --> 01:03:42,920
the original, and has been
improved with many verse numbers

1035
01:03:42,920 --> 01:03:46,360
in the paragraphs, which provide
a smooth, seamless reading

1036
01:03:46,360 --> 01:03:50,120
experience that makes it easy to
lose track of time while reading

1037
01:03:50,120 --> 01:03:53,880
and makes it easier to see the
large, larger narrative within

1038
01:03:53,880 --> 01:03:57,320
the Scriptures.
It is also the first original

1039
01:03:57,320 --> 01:04:00,920
editions published that can be
used with study guys, since

1040
01:04:00,920 --> 01:04:04,000
almost all of the other
originals don't have verses in

1041
01:04:04,000 --> 01:04:06,200
it.
The restored version offers a

1042
01:04:06,200 --> 01:04:10,200
pure offers pure doctrine in the
most historically transparent

1043
01:04:10,200 --> 01:04:14,040
Mormon triple combination ever
made with a modern format that

1044
01:04:14,040 --> 01:04:16,920
provides for a smooth, seamless
and spiritual read.

1045
01:04:17,320 --> 01:04:22,320
Now to get your copy today, just
go to www.restoredscriptures.com

1046
01:04:22,560 --> 01:04:24,760
or click the link in this
episode show notes.

1047
01:04:24,840 --> 01:04:29,040
Again, that is
www.restoredscriptures.com or

1048
01:04:29,040 --> 01:04:32,040
click the link in this episode
show notes and order your copy

1049
01:04:32,040 --> 01:04:35,000
today and arm you and your
family with the word of God.

1050
01:04:35,240 --> 01:04:38,360
Now let's get back to our
conversation story about your

1051
01:04:38,360 --> 01:04:40,160
observations at the Wailing
Wall.

1052
01:04:41,040 --> 01:04:43,880
Brigham Young.
There was an interesting account

1053
01:04:43,880 --> 01:04:47,080
in the Nauvoo Temple that after
a temple session, they

1054
01:04:47,080 --> 01:04:52,080
essentially got up and danced.
They danced and and Mormonism is

1055
01:04:52,080 --> 01:04:56,960
very unique in its view of of
our flesh or our humanity.

1056
01:04:59,200 --> 01:05:02,680
The doctrines that come out of
Mormonism says your humanity can

1057
01:05:02,680 --> 01:05:05,640
be holy and all of its facets,
right?

1058
01:05:05,920 --> 01:05:08,360
That's why we believe in the
temple.

1059
01:05:08,520 --> 01:05:12,400
One of the covenants says you're
going to bridle all of those

1060
01:05:12,400 --> 01:05:16,760
passions because your humanity
doesn't have to always be an

1061
01:05:16,760 --> 01:05:20,200
enemy to God.
You can overcome some of that

1062
01:05:20,240 --> 01:05:24,320
that stuff in the natural man.
And if you can do that, your

1063
01:05:24,320 --> 01:05:30,160
humanity becomes holy, your
relationships become holy, your

1064
01:05:30,160 --> 01:05:35,360
appetites can become holy, your
friendships can become holy,

1065
01:05:35,360 --> 01:05:37,200
your relationships can become
holy.

1066
01:05:38,480 --> 01:05:42,240
All of those things can be an
exercise in holiness.

1067
01:05:42,640 --> 01:05:48,760
And so this idea of being all
in, in your worship, I don't

1068
01:05:48,760 --> 01:05:52,080
think is necessarily out of sort
that that, let me rephrase that,

1069
01:05:52,360 --> 01:05:55,840
that everything we can do,
everything we do in life can be

1070
01:05:55,840 --> 01:05:59,640
a form of worship.
Again, there's a, there's a time

1071
01:05:59,640 --> 01:06:04,040
and place for everything.
But I think even our, our

1072
01:06:04,040 --> 01:06:10,080
vocations can be, can be holy if
if viewed through the right,

1073
01:06:10,520 --> 01:06:12,760
right lens and, and the right
perspective.

1074
01:06:12,760 --> 01:06:17,400
Yeah.
And Speaking of dancing, King

1075
01:06:17,400 --> 01:06:23,280
David danced before the Lord and
the Jews adore King David.

1076
01:06:23,320 --> 01:06:27,080
I mean, Jerusalem was built by
King David.

1077
01:06:27,440 --> 01:06:31,000
And I think often times Mormons
will look at King David and go,

1078
01:06:31,000 --> 01:06:33,960
oh, he was a naughty boy.
He did some bad.

1079
01:06:34,040 --> 01:06:35,920
I mean, we're talking adultery,
murder.

1080
01:06:36,080 --> 01:06:41,280
He kind of did all the stuff.
And but, and Jews know that, of

1081
01:06:41,280 --> 01:06:45,160
course, but they're like, but
that's OK because God knew his

1082
01:06:45,160 --> 01:06:48,040
heart.
Of course he repented too, but

1083
01:06:48,200 --> 01:06:54,440
he knew his heart.
And it gives me hope that if God

1084
01:06:54,440 --> 01:06:58,240
called King David, you know, a
man after his own heart, and I

1085
01:06:58,240 --> 01:07:01,720
thought that's so sweet because
he did love him with his heart.

1086
01:07:02,000 --> 01:07:04,880
And it gives me hope that I'm
completely imperfect.

1087
01:07:04,880 --> 01:07:08,080
I mean, I haven't done any of
that bad stuff, you know, but

1088
01:07:08,080 --> 01:07:11,480
that, that that God can still
love me even though I'm

1089
01:07:11,480 --> 01:07:14,760
imperfect and that we should be
dancing.

1090
01:07:14,760 --> 01:07:17,360
We should be so happy.
We should be the happiest people

1091
01:07:17,360 --> 01:07:20,920
on earth because we have the
gospel of Jesus Christ in our

1092
01:07:20,920 --> 01:07:25,920
life.
And anyway, so on to this one.

1093
01:07:26,120 --> 01:07:27,920
Can you see that one?
Language of Heaven.

1094
01:07:28,200 --> 01:07:33,720
Yeah, so the old test it's
called, the subtitle is Hebrew

1095
01:07:33,720 --> 01:07:35,520
words every Latin.
This is a long one.

1096
01:07:35,520 --> 01:07:38,560
I have to read it to remember
what I called it Hebrew words

1097
01:07:38,560 --> 01:07:42,680
every latter day St. should know
to better understand the Bible,

1098
01:07:42,680 --> 01:07:47,440
covenants and God.
And so it's got the Jewish

1099
01:07:47,440 --> 01:07:49,840
menorah on here.
Obviously, it's called the

1100
01:07:49,840 --> 01:07:54,120
language of heaven because the
Old Testament was predominantly

1101
01:07:54,120 --> 01:07:59,720
written in Hebrew.
And the book's goal, my goal

1102
01:07:59,760 --> 01:08:05,320
with the book is to teach just a
few Hebrew words and their

1103
01:08:05,320 --> 01:08:11,280
deeper meaning because it truly
provides insights that I think

1104
01:08:11,280 --> 01:08:14,840
oftentimes we just don't even
know are connected with that

1105
01:08:14,840 --> 01:08:16,960
particular word.
Like the word that I told you

1106
01:08:16,960 --> 01:08:20,200
before, when you know, it means
to study the scriptures, to read

1107
01:08:20,200 --> 01:08:24,319
the Scriptures, but no, it means
so much more to ingest them, to

1108
01:08:24,319 --> 01:08:27,279
taste them, to live them, you
know, that kind of thing.

1109
01:08:27,279 --> 01:08:32,359
And so I love symbolism.
I love layers and diving deep.

1110
01:08:32,680 --> 01:08:38,520
And so as I had, I've been
studying Judaism for many, many

1111
01:08:38,520 --> 01:08:44,080
years and I just find the words
to be so fascinating.

1112
01:08:45,520 --> 01:08:46,880
Here's an example.
Oh well.

1113
01:08:46,880 --> 01:08:49,560
So hold on.
I'll come back to the example

1114
01:08:49,560 --> 01:08:53,560
here in just a second.
So what the book does is offer a

1115
01:08:53,560 --> 01:08:57,600
Hebrew word for every week of
the year, plus a few extras.

1116
01:08:57,600 --> 01:09:02,160
So if your family wanted to
study one word and you know,

1117
01:09:02,160 --> 01:09:06,920
practice using the word in your
sentences in your daily life or

1118
01:09:06,920 --> 01:09:11,399
whatever for a week, the each
chapter features one word and

1119
01:09:11,399 --> 01:09:17,040
then gives examples of the
scriptures where it has that

1120
01:09:17,040 --> 01:09:19,560
word.
It uses that word and it just

1121
01:09:19,560 --> 01:09:24,680
brings that scripture to life
when you go, oh, interesting,

1122
01:09:24,680 --> 01:09:27,520
you know, and then there are
quotes and then there are

1123
01:09:27,520 --> 01:09:31,600
stories in the Bible that
perfectly illustrate the concept

1124
01:09:31,600 --> 01:09:35,520
of that Jewish word.
And then it also has a section

1125
01:09:35,520 --> 01:09:40,479
where it shows how Latter Day
Saints understand that word and

1126
01:09:40,479 --> 01:09:44,960
even how it appears sometimes in
the Book of Mormon, sometimes in

1127
01:09:44,960 --> 01:09:48,359
the actual Jewish word, even
though the Book of Mormon wasn't

1128
01:09:48,359 --> 01:09:52,600
written in Hebrew.
The Book of Mormons started with

1129
01:09:52,600 --> 01:09:55,520
Lehi and his family and they
came from Jerusalem, you know

1130
01:09:55,520 --> 01:09:58,720
what I mean?
But anyway, and then it offers

1131
01:09:59,280 --> 01:10:04,520
activity ideas on how to, you
know, again, as a family, maybe

1132
01:10:04,520 --> 01:10:08,640
incorporate those words.
And then it has a little fun

1133
01:10:08,640 --> 01:10:11,480
fact of Judaism related to that
word.

1134
01:10:11,480 --> 01:10:14,560
And I think that section is
probably my favorite part just

1135
01:10:14,560 --> 01:10:20,040
because I think it's so
interesting anyway, So I'll give

1136
01:10:20,040 --> 01:10:24,240
you an example of a word.
So the word is shema.

1137
01:10:24,480 --> 01:10:26,080
Have you ever heard that word
before?

1138
01:10:27,480 --> 01:10:35,520
Sounds familiar, but no.
So Shema is a type of prayer

1139
01:10:35,760 --> 01:10:39,880
that the Jews call it the Israel
Shema prayer.

1140
01:10:40,160 --> 01:10:43,120
They pray it the first thing
they do when they wake up in the

1141
01:10:43,120 --> 01:10:47,040
morning, and then they're also
supposed to pray it the last

1142
01:10:47,040 --> 01:10:51,640
thing they do before they go to
bed and if possible, the last

1143
01:10:51,640 --> 01:10:55,680
thing they say before they die.
You know, again, if that's

1144
01:10:55,680 --> 01:10:59,160
possible.
And So what it it comes from

1145
01:10:59,160 --> 01:11:02,280
Deuteronomy chapter 6, verses 4
through 9.

1146
01:11:02,560 --> 01:11:06,840
And it basically, you've heard
this because it's also echoed in

1147
01:11:06,840 --> 01:11:11,440
the New Testament and it even in
the Book of Mormon, which is to

1148
01:11:11,440 --> 01:11:16,080
love God with all your heart
might and soul, right?

1149
01:11:17,360 --> 01:11:21,040
And some people even say heart,
might, mind and soul.

1150
01:11:21,040 --> 01:11:23,200
But anyway, you, you know that
concept, right?

1151
01:11:23,720 --> 01:11:27,200
And so have you ever seen the TV
show The Chosen?

1152
01:11:27,200 --> 01:11:29,320
Have you ever seen that series?
Oh yeah, yeah.

1153
01:11:29,560 --> 01:11:30,640
Oh yeah.
Yeah.

1154
01:11:30,640 --> 01:11:33,800
Have you seen all of the OR all
of the episode or seasons so

1155
01:11:33,800 --> 01:11:35,160
far?
I have not gone through all the

1156
01:11:35,160 --> 01:11:37,280
episodes yet.
OK, so you might not have seen

1157
01:11:37,280 --> 01:11:41,840
it, but there are two or three
episodes where you see Jonathan

1158
01:11:41,840 --> 01:11:47,240
Rumi, who plays Jesus, reciting
the Shema prayer.

1159
01:11:48,600 --> 01:11:52,160
And then there's another episode
where he's reciting it with

1160
01:11:52,160 --> 01:11:54,760
children.
Or they're he, he's asking them,

1161
01:11:54,760 --> 01:11:57,240
do you know it?
Because every Jewish child

1162
01:11:57,240 --> 01:12:00,200
learns it and memorizes it.
And so they're like, yes, of

1163
01:12:00,200 --> 01:12:01,840
course.
And he said, say it, you know,

1164
01:12:02,360 --> 01:12:04,560
share it with me.
And so the children are saying

1165
01:12:04,560 --> 01:12:09,440
it to him, which is so symbolic
and so beautiful.

1166
01:12:10,800 --> 01:12:14,400
And so it's a commitment to God.
It's a promise to God, saying

1167
01:12:14,400 --> 01:12:19,680
again, I'm team God, you know,
I, I hear you, I'm listening and

1168
01:12:19,680 --> 01:12:24,400
I'm obeying.
And it's, it's very sweet.

1169
01:12:24,400 --> 01:12:28,880
And so sometimes when I, when
I'm asleep and then I just start

1170
01:12:28,880 --> 01:12:32,960
to wake up, I'll try to say it
out loud or sometimes just in my

1171
01:12:32,960 --> 01:12:37,200
mind or if I'm exhausted,
sometimes I'll just say Shema.

1172
01:12:37,320 --> 01:12:41,640
And I know Heavenly Father knows
what I'm saying just again,

1173
01:12:41,680 --> 01:12:45,360
waking up saying God, you're the
man.

1174
01:12:45,360 --> 01:12:48,920
I'm I am willing to do whatever
you need me to do today.

1175
01:12:48,920 --> 01:12:53,880
And again, you're such a great
example because you said you did

1176
01:12:53,880 --> 01:12:57,920
not want to do this podcast, but
the Lord Oh at.

1177
01:12:57,920 --> 01:13:01,040
The beginning, yeah.
Yeah, the Lord told you you

1178
01:13:01,040 --> 01:13:05,880
should do this, and you did it.
And it what a blessing it's been

1179
01:13:05,880 --> 01:13:08,720
to so many people.
Anyway, that's the concept of

1180
01:13:08,720 --> 01:13:12,160
shaman.
I just think how wonderful that

1181
01:13:12,160 --> 01:13:14,800
would be if everybody woke up
and the first thing on their

1182
01:13:14,800 --> 01:13:17,800
mind was God.
You know, whatever, however you

1183
01:13:17,800 --> 01:13:21,040
see God, whatever denomination
or faith, you know, religion.

1184
01:13:21,240 --> 01:13:24,880
But if we all had that eye
single to the glory of God, you

1185
01:13:24,880 --> 01:13:27,320
know the first thing when we
woke up and the last thing

1186
01:13:27,320 --> 01:13:29,520
before we went to bed, that
would.

1187
01:13:29,520 --> 01:13:32,680
Change the world.
You know, I, I was just looking

1188
01:13:32,680 --> 01:13:34,280
this up.
I think it's worth reading,

1189
01:13:34,320 --> 01:13:35,800
right?
I just read through it here as

1190
01:13:35,800 --> 01:13:37,640
we were talking.
I think it's worth reading

1191
01:13:39,200 --> 01:13:41,720
Deuteronomy chapter 6 verses 4
through 9.

1192
01:13:42,520 --> 01:13:47,760
Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God
is 1 Lord, and thou shalt love

1193
01:13:47,760 --> 01:13:51,080
the Lord thy God with all thy
heart, and with all thy soul,

1194
01:13:51,080 --> 01:13:54,600
and with all thy might.
And these words which I command

1195
01:13:54,600 --> 01:13:58,800
thee this day shall be in thine
heart, and thou shalt teach them

1196
01:13:58,800 --> 01:14:03,000
diligently into thy children.
And thou shalt talk of them when

1197
01:14:03,000 --> 01:14:07,000
thou art in the house, and when
thou walkest by the way, and

1198
01:14:07,000 --> 01:14:09,760
when thou lie us down, and when
thou risest up.

1199
01:14:10,280 --> 01:14:15,640
And thou shalt bind them for a
sign upon thy hand, and they

1200
01:14:15,640 --> 01:14:20,160
shall be as frontlets between
thine eyes, and thou shalt write

1201
01:14:20,160 --> 01:14:22,280
upon them upon.
Excuse me.

1202
01:14:22,280 --> 01:14:25,640
And thou shalt write upon the
post of the house, and on thy

1203
01:14:25,640 --> 01:14:30,560
gates.
What this is, if I'm not

1204
01:14:30,560 --> 01:14:35,080
mistaken, and you can correct me
if I'm wrong here, but if I'm

1205
01:14:35,080 --> 01:14:38,760
not mistaken, a lot of Jews,
when you, when you see them go

1206
01:14:38,760 --> 01:14:41,400
to the wall, they'll have
something on their hand or a box

1207
01:14:41,400 --> 01:14:44,160
on, on their forehead, right?
Yes.

1208
01:14:45,160 --> 01:14:47,760
Well, so they have something
called the phylactery, which is

1209
01:14:47,760 --> 01:14:52,080
that little box and it is the
Shema prayer inside.

1210
01:14:52,080 --> 01:14:55,560
Sometimes they have other things
as well in there and then they

1211
01:14:55,560 --> 01:14:58,160
have it connected.
You can see like leather straps

1212
01:14:58,400 --> 01:15:01,720
that that connect this
phylactery from the forehead and

1213
01:15:01,720 --> 01:15:05,200
wrap it around the arm.
And the, the imagery that I love

1214
01:15:05,200 --> 01:15:09,680
about that is that when you're
thinking about God, trying to

1215
01:15:09,680 --> 01:15:12,640
obey God, studying the
scriptures, it, it starts, you

1216
01:15:12,640 --> 01:15:16,960
know, learning in your head, in
your mind, but it doesn't end

1217
01:15:16,960 --> 01:15:20,120
there.
It's that idea of taking action.

1218
01:15:20,120 --> 01:15:23,720
And so I love that the leather
straps go down the arm.

1219
01:15:23,920 --> 01:15:28,960
The arm historically,
artistically from forever, has

1220
01:15:28,960 --> 01:15:32,920
represented movement and power,
taking action.

1221
01:15:33,200 --> 01:15:38,000
And so I love that not all Jews
wear that, but that they do

1222
01:15:38,000 --> 01:15:41,720
that.
There's also something you may

1223
01:15:41,720 --> 01:15:46,880
have seen on Jewish homes, and
that's called a mezuzah.

1224
01:15:47,000 --> 01:15:50,760
You know what that is?
Yep, it's, it's, it's a place

1225
01:15:50,760 --> 01:15:57,880
where where they stick a scroll.
Is, is, is that what you're what

1226
01:15:57,880 --> 01:15:59,520
you're kind of talking about?
Yeah.

1227
01:15:59,520 --> 01:16:02,760
And again, it could be the Shema
prayer, but it also could

1228
01:16:02,760 --> 01:16:05,920
include other scriptures.
And they put it in this little,

1229
01:16:05,920 --> 01:16:09,560
tight little scroll and they put
it inside this little box.

1230
01:16:09,920 --> 01:16:14,200
And So what they do, they were
commanded again in the

1231
01:16:14,200 --> 01:16:18,000
scriptures in the Bible to put
it on their houses.

1232
01:16:18,760 --> 01:16:23,640
And so if you go to a front door
and sometimes for, you know, for

1233
01:16:24,400 --> 01:16:26,560
growing up as a young girl, I
never noticed it.

1234
01:16:26,560 --> 01:16:29,640
But then when I learned what a
mezuza was later, I was like,

1235
01:16:30,120 --> 01:16:33,640
oh, I've seen that on this house
and on that house and on this

1236
01:16:33,640 --> 01:16:36,440
building or on, of course, you
know, on synagogues or whatever.

1237
01:16:36,760 --> 01:16:41,160
And what's cute is rabbis love
to debate.

1238
01:16:41,160 --> 01:16:44,400
So the Torah is the first five
books of the Old Testament,

1239
01:16:44,400 --> 01:16:46,280
right?
The Tanakh is the rest of the

1240
01:16:46,320 --> 01:16:49,680
Old Testament.
And then they have a third body

1241
01:16:49,680 --> 01:16:52,960
of not exactly scripture, but
it's called the Talmud.

1242
01:16:53,320 --> 01:16:58,120
And it is rabbis debating,
arguing, trying to decide what

1243
01:16:58,120 --> 01:17:02,560
does this Scripture mean.
And so, you know, for centuries

1244
01:17:02,560 --> 01:17:05,160
they have all of these writings
from rabbis.

1245
01:17:05,480 --> 01:17:11,120
And so some Jews will put the
menorah vertically on a doorpost

1246
01:17:11,120 --> 01:17:13,680
of their house.
Some will do horizontal, but

1247
01:17:13,680 --> 01:17:17,120
most of them will do it at a
diagonal because that way

1248
01:17:17,120 --> 01:17:20,440
they're kind of in between.
They're compromising, you know,

1249
01:17:20,440 --> 01:17:22,520
instead of straight up or
straight across.

1250
01:17:22,720 --> 01:17:24,960
You'll see it more often than
not diagonal.

1251
01:17:25,200 --> 01:17:27,400
And I don't know why that just
tickles me to death.

1252
01:17:27,400 --> 01:17:29,920
I just think that's so funny.
I mean, you know, kind of

1253
01:17:31,000 --> 01:17:34,920
compromise, I guess anyway.
But I love that when you see a

1254
01:17:34,920 --> 01:17:37,960
Jew walk out of the house, they
will touch that and then, you

1255
01:17:37,960 --> 01:17:40,920
know, to their lips when they
come into the house, they'll

1256
01:17:40,920 --> 01:17:43,800
touch it to their lips and then
touch the mezuzah.

1257
01:17:44,320 --> 01:17:47,640
And God is so much a part of
their daily lives.

1258
01:17:47,640 --> 01:17:50,760
And I had told you before, I
didn't want to get all political

1259
01:17:50,760 --> 01:17:54,320
about the nation of Israel and
you know all of that because

1260
01:17:54,320 --> 01:17:56,960
that will take us in other
places.

1261
01:17:57,320 --> 01:18:02,360
But in terms of the Jewish
religion, there's so much good

1262
01:18:02,360 --> 01:18:05,360
there that we can learn from and
incorporate.

1263
01:18:05,360 --> 01:18:08,520
I'm not saying we all have to
have mezuzahs, but you know, do

1264
01:18:08,520 --> 01:18:13,400
we hang scriptures on our walls
at home or have pictures of the

1265
01:18:13,400 --> 01:18:15,880
temple or have pictures of
Christ?

1266
01:18:15,880 --> 01:18:18,240
You know, that would be maybe an
equivalent.

1267
01:18:18,440 --> 01:18:22,560
Are we praying together as a
family morning when we wake up,

1268
01:18:22,760 --> 01:18:25,320
evening before we go to bed?
You know the it's the same

1269
01:18:25,320 --> 01:18:29,720
concept, but how, how valiant
are we in doing those things?

1270
01:18:31,040 --> 01:18:38,040
100% and I I have a theory.
It's just my own theory, but I

1271
01:18:38,080 --> 01:18:42,000
don't think that, that there's
another religion that we may not

1272
01:18:42,000 --> 01:18:47,480
be able to relate to more than
perhaps Judaism, right.

1273
01:18:48,160 --> 01:18:53,960
And, and I first noticed this
when on, on all things.

1274
01:18:53,960 --> 01:18:57,600
It was, it was when I was in the
LDS Church and I was a young

1275
01:18:57,600 --> 01:19:02,680
man's president and we took the
young men on trek, right?

1276
01:19:03,160 --> 01:19:06,920
And so we're, we're going up to
Wyoming where, you know, going

1277
01:19:06,920 --> 01:19:10,080
to pull those hand carts, you
know, and all, all that sort of

1278
01:19:10,080 --> 01:19:12,880
thing.
And, you know, it's the typical

1279
01:19:12,880 --> 01:19:14,680
stuff.
Somebody's got blisters,

1280
01:19:14,680 --> 01:19:19,080
someone's irritated about this
or someone won't quit touching

1281
01:19:19,080 --> 01:19:21,480
my stuff and, and all these
things.

1282
01:19:22,520 --> 01:19:26,920
But it got me thinking like, OK,
I, I get the why for the most

1283
01:19:26,920 --> 01:19:30,640
part, right?
And then I was thinking then we

1284
01:19:30,640 --> 01:19:35,000
have like the 24th of July,
which is a official holiday in

1285
01:19:35,000 --> 01:19:38,920
Utah, which is great if you live
in Missouri because it's just an

1286
01:19:38,920 --> 01:19:40,880
extra day off it.
But yet the banks are all still

1287
01:19:40,880 --> 01:19:43,120
open.
So I can go get whatever I need

1288
01:19:43,120 --> 01:19:49,120
to get done.
But the, it got me thinking, I

1289
01:19:49,120 --> 01:19:52,720
was like, do other religions do
this sort of a thing, right?

1290
01:19:53,200 --> 01:19:56,320
Put themselves kind of in the
place of the ancestors.

1291
01:19:57,240 --> 01:20:02,320
Well, Judaism does a lot, right?
And like if you've ever seen a

1292
01:20:02,320 --> 01:20:07,840
Passover meal, it's interesting
verbiage because it's not.

1293
01:20:08,520 --> 01:20:12,400
They say, they don't say this is
what the Lord did for our

1294
01:20:12,400 --> 01:20:15,560
ancestors.
They say, this is what the Lord

1295
01:20:15,560 --> 01:20:18,360
did for me.
And then they'll explain

1296
01:20:18,440 --> 01:20:22,240
everything that happened
throughout Exodus, right?

1297
01:20:22,720 --> 01:20:26,520
Yes.
Likewise, if we look at our

1298
01:20:26,520 --> 01:20:29,760
temple rites, we are putting
ourself, especially the

1299
01:20:29,760 --> 01:20:33,640
endowment, we are putting
ourselves in the place of the

1300
01:20:33,680 --> 01:20:37,840
ancestor.
In fact, we are instructed to

1301
01:20:37,840 --> 01:20:42,080
consider yourselves as if we
were the ancestors, right?

1302
01:20:42,320 --> 01:20:45,480
And it's through that mechanism
that we will make the same

1303
01:20:45,480 --> 01:20:50,800
covenants with God.
And I find it very interesting

1304
01:20:50,800 --> 01:20:55,640
that we have very similar
parallels in in both religions.

1305
01:20:57,600 --> 01:21:01,120
Yeah, absolutely.
You just said something that,

1306
01:21:01,120 --> 01:21:02,960
oh, we were talking about the
Passover.

1307
01:21:02,960 --> 01:21:09,240
There's so much rich symbolism.
And again, I think my goal for

1308
01:21:09,240 --> 01:21:15,800
this book as a supplement for
the 2026 Old Testament Study

1309
01:21:15,800 --> 01:21:20,240
Program through the Come, Follow
Me program is to help members of

1310
01:21:20,240 --> 01:21:24,040
the church see Jesus Christ in
the Old Testament.

1311
01:21:24,520 --> 01:21:27,440
A lot of times there's a
disconnect that God of the Old

1312
01:21:27,440 --> 01:21:30,720
Testament was so mean.
He was always punishing

1313
01:21:30,720 --> 01:21:33,680
everybody, and he was just
weird, you know?

1314
01:21:35,800 --> 01:21:39,960
And yet the God of the New
Testament, you know, we see

1315
01:21:39,960 --> 01:21:42,880
Jesus Christ and he's so loving,
and he taught us such good

1316
01:21:42,880 --> 01:21:46,080
principles.
And it's the same God, it's the

1317
01:21:46,080 --> 01:21:50,240
same Savior, right?
There's, I think there's such

1318
01:21:50,280 --> 01:21:56,160
rich symbolism in the Passover
and it was there all along to

1319
01:21:56,200 --> 01:22:01,080
point the Jews to the Messiah.
So when he came, they would

1320
01:22:01,080 --> 01:22:03,120
recognize him.
And some did.

1321
01:22:03,120 --> 01:22:07,360
Some obviously followed Jesus
Christ and and proclaimed him

1322
01:22:07,360 --> 01:22:10,720
the Messiah.
But so many Jews missed that

1323
01:22:10,720 --> 01:22:12,640
mark.
They didn't see the symbolism.

1324
01:22:12,880 --> 01:22:16,760
For example, their typical
Shabbat dinner.

1325
01:22:16,760 --> 01:22:18,520
Or.
It is.

1326
01:22:18,960 --> 01:22:22,280
You've got the board, a wood
board which would represent the

1327
01:22:22,280 --> 01:22:24,680
cross.
You've got the loaf of bread,

1328
01:22:24,680 --> 01:22:28,960
the hala bread, which is unique
for Jewish Shabbat bread, where

1329
01:22:28,960 --> 01:22:30,720
it's kind of a twisted, braided
thing.

1330
01:22:30,720 --> 01:22:32,320
It's really pretty and delicious
too.

1331
01:22:33,120 --> 01:22:37,440
But we know that Jesus has been
referred to as the bread of life

1332
01:22:37,920 --> 01:22:42,920
and he was born in Bethlehem,
which means the House of bread.

1333
01:22:43,080 --> 01:22:44,560
I mean, you can kind of go on
and on.

1334
01:22:44,840 --> 01:22:49,400
And then part of the Shabbat is,
oh, then they have usually a,

1335
01:22:49,440 --> 01:22:54,680
like a, a linen, white linen or
napkin that goes over the bread,

1336
01:22:55,240 --> 01:23:00,400
which represents to us the
shroud where Jesus was wrapped

1337
01:23:00,400 --> 01:23:02,760
and buried in the tomb and all
of that.

1338
01:23:03,000 --> 01:23:07,040
But there are two other pieces
of that Shabbat setup, and that

1339
01:23:07,040 --> 01:23:11,240
is 2 candlesticks.
And I had asked Jewish people

1340
01:23:11,240 --> 01:23:14,760
for years, OK, I totally get the
other symbolism.

1341
01:23:15,000 --> 01:23:16,840
What's the deal with the two
candlesticks?

1342
01:23:16,840 --> 01:23:22,320
And they were always like, you
know, I don't know, light is

1343
01:23:22,320 --> 01:23:26,600
good or, you know, they would
kind of grasp for things that

1344
01:23:26,600 --> 01:23:30,120
maybe resonated with them.
And I thought, OK, but there's

1345
01:23:30,120 --> 01:23:32,080
kind of be a reason why are
there 2?

1346
01:23:32,800 --> 01:23:34,960
You know, that's got to mean
something because I'm always

1347
01:23:34,960 --> 01:23:40,640
looking for meaning and symbols.
And anyway, finally I talked

1348
01:23:40,640 --> 01:23:44,080
with this Jewish rabbi that I
had studied with when I was

1349
01:23:44,080 --> 01:23:46,360
writing this book.
And he's like, oh, that's

1350
01:23:46,360 --> 01:23:50,840
because you don't just hear the
word of God, you do the word of

1351
01:23:50,840 --> 01:23:53,240
God.
Again, it's the learning and

1352
01:23:53,240 --> 01:23:58,040
studying and the taking action.
And I was like, yes, I love

1353
01:23:58,040 --> 01:24:00,080
that.
That's absolutely what those two

1354
01:24:00,080 --> 01:24:04,040
candles would be about.
When you study, you get light,

1355
01:24:04,520 --> 01:24:08,200
but when you study and take
action, that brings light to

1356
01:24:08,280 --> 01:24:12,400
others as well.
Anyway, so how do we get on that

1357
01:24:12,400 --> 01:24:15,720
tangent?
I was talking about how we

1358
01:24:16,440 --> 01:24:19,760
Mormons and and and Judaism
share this idea of putting

1359
01:24:19,760 --> 01:24:22,240
ourselves in the place of the
ancestors with some of our

1360
01:24:22,240 --> 01:24:24,840
practices.
Yes, yes, you know, and there's

1361
01:24:25,000 --> 01:24:26,560
AI keep.
I don't know if you keep seeing

1362
01:24:26,560 --> 01:24:28,120
these pop ups on your screen,
but.

1363
01:24:28,200 --> 01:24:29,280
No, I do.
I do not.

1364
01:24:29,440 --> 01:24:30,080
No.
Oh, good.

1365
01:24:30,080 --> 01:24:33,160
OK, well, I got rid of that one.
There's another really neat

1366
01:24:33,440 --> 01:24:39,440
Hebrew word and it we don't
really have a word for it in

1367
01:24:39,440 --> 01:24:43,240
English.
What it means is a kinsman

1368
01:24:43,320 --> 01:24:51,360
Redeemer and how it's used is
let's say your nephew owed a

1369
01:24:51,360 --> 01:24:54,560
bunch of money and you didn't
have the money and you were

1370
01:24:54,560 --> 01:24:57,800
going to be thrown into jail
because you didn't have the

1371
01:24:57,800 --> 01:25:01,120
money to pay your debt.
One of your family members, a

1372
01:25:01,120 --> 01:25:07,840
relative who wants to help you
and restore you to the position

1373
01:25:07,840 --> 01:25:10,360
you were in before, can save
you.

1374
01:25:10,360 --> 01:25:14,200
And you can think of a lot of
very practical worldly

1375
01:25:15,880 --> 01:25:19,240
adaptations, you know, you owe
money or somebody goes to jail

1376
01:25:19,240 --> 01:25:24,200
or, you know, whatever.
But obviously the, the deeper

1377
01:25:24,200 --> 01:25:31,320
symbolic meaning is the Jesus
Christ is our kinsman Redeemer.

1378
01:25:31,520 --> 01:25:35,560
He's literally our brother.
He's the Son of God and we are

1379
01:25:35,560 --> 01:25:38,480
children of God.
He's our brother and he's

1380
01:25:38,560 --> 01:25:41,960
redeeming us.
He is restoring us to what we

1381
01:25:41,960 --> 01:25:46,880
once were without sin.
And I love that imagery.

1382
01:25:46,920 --> 01:25:51,640
I mean, that one word in Hebrew
says all of that that I just

1383
01:25:51,640 --> 01:25:52,560
said.
I don't.

1384
01:25:52,560 --> 01:25:55,920
I think that's really cool.
I love it when other languages

1385
01:25:55,920 --> 01:25:58,960
because I I do like to study and
learn other languages when one

1386
01:25:58,960 --> 01:26:04,160
word just has this all this
connotation and meaning summed

1387
01:26:04,160 --> 01:26:10,400
up in one word.
Absolutely say 100% and, and I

1388
01:26:10,400 --> 01:26:13,240
have a theory and it's just my
own theory, but I think that,

1389
01:26:13,520 --> 01:26:17,960
that, that there's a, there's
not another religion that we

1390
01:26:17,960 --> 01:26:22,920
may, excuse me, there's another
religion that, that we may not

1391
01:26:23,280 --> 01:26:27,120
be able to relate to more than
perhaps Judaism, right.

1392
01:26:27,480 --> 01:26:33,440
And I first noticed this when,
of, of all things, I was in the

1393
01:26:33,440 --> 01:26:37,400
LDS church and I took a group of
young men when I was young men's

1394
01:26:37,400 --> 01:26:40,680
president on Trek.
And, and so we were going out

1395
01:26:40,680 --> 01:26:45,120
into Wyoming where, you know,
going to pull hand cards and,

1396
01:26:45,120 --> 01:26:51,880
and all, all that sort of thing.
And as we were doing that, of

1397
01:26:51,880 --> 01:26:53,800
course I hear all the
complaining, someone's got

1398
01:26:53,800 --> 01:26:57,480
blisters, someone's irritated or
someone won't quit touching my

1399
01:26:57,480 --> 01:26:59,840
stuff, just go down the list,
all those things.

1400
01:27:00,520 --> 01:27:05,680
But it got me thinking, OK, I
get the Y for the most part,

1401
01:27:05,680 --> 01:27:09,720
right?
And then I was thinking then we

1402
01:27:09,720 --> 01:27:12,800
have like this 24th of July
celebration.

1403
01:27:13,080 --> 01:27:19,440
But these things got me thinking
it, it got me thinking, I was

1404
01:27:19,440 --> 01:27:22,520
like, do other religions do this
sort of the thing right?

1405
01:27:22,520 --> 01:27:24,880
Put themselves in the place of
their ancestors?

1406
01:27:25,120 --> 01:27:27,520
Well, Judaism does, right?
Like a lot.

1407
01:27:27,840 --> 01:27:32,160
And I think if, if you've seen a
Passover meal, it's interesting

1408
01:27:32,160 --> 01:27:34,560
verbiage because it's they, it's
not.

1409
01:27:35,120 --> 01:27:39,960
They say, they don't say this is
what the Lord did for, for our

1410
01:27:39,960 --> 01:27:42,920
ancestors.
They say this is what the Lord

1411
01:27:42,920 --> 01:27:45,280
did for me.
And, and that's kind of

1412
01:27:45,280 --> 01:27:47,080
impossible, right?
They weren't there for it.

1413
01:27:47,880 --> 01:27:50,880
And then they'll explain
everything that happened through

1414
01:27:50,880 --> 01:27:53,960
throughout Exodus, right?
Likewise, if we look at our

1415
01:27:53,960 --> 01:27:57,440
temple rites, we are putting
ourselves especially in the

1416
01:27:57,440 --> 01:28:01,520
endowment in the place of the
ancestors.

1417
01:28:01,760 --> 01:28:06,240
In fact, if we are instructed
that that that were to consider

1418
01:28:06,240 --> 01:28:08,520
ourselves as if we were the
ancestors, right.

1419
01:28:08,800 --> 01:28:12,520
And it's through that mechanism
that we will make sacred

1420
01:28:12,520 --> 01:28:16,040
covenants with God.
We see this to a lesser degree

1421
01:28:16,160 --> 01:28:18,440
with Trek, right?
You're putting yourself in the

1422
01:28:18,440 --> 01:28:22,600
place of the ancestors.
And so I, I find that there are

1423
01:28:22,600 --> 01:28:25,560
some interesting parallels
between both religions.

1424
01:28:26,920 --> 01:28:32,400
I was, I was talking about how
we as Mormons and and and and

1425
01:28:32,400 --> 01:28:36,480
and Jews share this idea of
putting ourselves in the place

1426
01:28:36,480 --> 01:28:39,280
of the ancestors with some of
our practices.

1427
01:28:39,920 --> 01:28:41,680
Absolutely.
And, and you know it.

1428
01:28:43,520 --> 01:28:47,480
The more I don't, I don't know
Hebrew.

1429
01:28:47,480 --> 01:28:51,720
I'm not proficient in Hebrew.
I have a little app on my phone

1430
01:28:52,320 --> 01:28:55,360
that my buddy showed me and it's
called Scriptures for All, which

1431
01:28:55,360 --> 01:28:59,360
allows you to take a verse and
it will you just type it in and

1432
01:28:59,360 --> 01:29:02,720
it will give you the Hebrew
translation of what that word

1433
01:29:02,720 --> 01:29:07,400
meant in the Old Testament and
what it means in the Greek in

1434
01:29:07,400 --> 01:29:12,000
the New Testament.
And when you get to the to the

1435
01:29:12,000 --> 01:29:16,840
context of things in Scripture,
things begin to pop a little

1436
01:29:16,840 --> 01:29:19,760
more you.
One of my favorite examples of

1437
01:29:19,760 --> 01:29:23,160
this is Jesus teaching by the
pool of Bethesda, right?

1438
01:29:24,080 --> 01:29:26,360
There's a man who's laying
beside this pool.

1439
01:29:26,600 --> 01:29:31,640
He's been there for 30 years.
And Jesus comes along and he

1440
01:29:31,640 --> 01:29:37,200
said, would thou be whole?
And it seems like kind of a

1441
01:29:37,200 --> 01:29:40,640
silly question, right?
Because the, the, the whole gist

1442
01:29:40,640 --> 01:29:43,760
of this, of this story is, is
that at certain times of the

1443
01:29:43,760 --> 01:29:46,960
year, they, they believed an
Angel would go down and quote,

1444
01:29:46,960 --> 01:29:50,520
trouble the waters and the first
person in there would be healed

1445
01:29:50,520 --> 01:29:54,360
of whatever infirmity they had.
But this guy beside the pool,

1446
01:29:54,360 --> 01:29:56,800
he's crippled and there's no one
to take him into the pool.

1447
01:29:57,400 --> 01:30:01,960
And so Jesus comes along and
he's like, would you be whole?

1448
01:30:02,160 --> 01:30:04,600
And we think what Jesus is
asking is, do you want to be

1449
01:30:04,600 --> 01:30:06,200
healed?
Well, that's kind of a silly

1450
01:30:06,200 --> 01:30:08,440
question, right?
Because he's been hanging out

1451
01:30:08,440 --> 01:30:11,600
there for like 30 years.
Of course he'd want to be

1452
01:30:11,600 --> 01:30:14,080
healed.
But when you look at the word

1453
01:30:14,080 --> 01:30:18,040
whole, Jesus isn't simply asking
him, do you want to be healed?

1454
01:30:18,440 --> 01:30:23,360
What he is saying is, Are you
ready to become an self

1455
01:30:23,360 --> 01:30:27,000
actualized individual?
Are you ready to hold down a

1456
01:30:27,000 --> 01:30:29,520
job?
Are you ready to have a family?

1457
01:30:29,840 --> 01:30:36,160
Are you ready to live live life
in the gospel the way your God

1458
01:30:36,400 --> 01:30:39,200
describes?
Are you ready to do all those

1459
01:30:39,200 --> 01:30:42,280
things?
And that changes everything

1460
01:30:42,280 --> 01:30:47,920
drastically because obviously
the guy is making it somehow,

1461
01:30:48,160 --> 01:30:52,000
right?
The guy's, the guy's being fed

1462
01:30:52,480 --> 01:30:56,680
and so he's obviously be being
taken care of somehow.

1463
01:30:57,080 --> 01:31:00,720
Well, we can see what Jesus is
really driving at in the

1464
01:31:00,720 --> 01:31:03,400
subsequent interaction between
the man and the Pharisees.

1465
01:31:03,720 --> 01:31:06,600
Because the, once the Pharisees
learn that this guy's been

1466
01:31:06,600 --> 01:31:11,320
healed, they, they basically
ask, who told you you were

1467
01:31:11,320 --> 01:31:14,400
healed?
And so we see what Jesus is

1468
01:31:14,400 --> 01:31:17,880
really doing here.
And, and yes, he is healing this

1469
01:31:17,880 --> 01:31:21,880
man, but he's obviously
upsetting the power structure of

1470
01:31:21,880 --> 01:31:24,440
the day.
And the Pharisees were the ones

1471
01:31:24,680 --> 01:31:27,680
who were making sure that this
man was getting his sustenance.

1472
01:31:27,920 --> 01:31:31,760
So this man kind of was beholden
to the Pharisees, right?

1473
01:31:31,760 --> 01:31:34,760
It's a power dynamic.
And Jesus comes along and he's

1474
01:31:34,760 --> 01:31:40,280
going to threaten that dynamic.
And so we can see how context

1475
01:31:40,760 --> 01:31:47,600
creates a getting the context
absolutely changes the meaning

1476
01:31:47,600 --> 01:31:49,280
of what's being said in the
Scripture.

1477
01:31:49,920 --> 01:31:53,200
And it's important then to
understand that the idea as it,

1478
01:31:53,640 --> 01:31:56,040
it's important to try to
understand the idea as it was

1479
01:31:56,040 --> 01:31:58,120
originally there.
Same thing with the word

1480
01:31:58,120 --> 01:31:59,680
perfect, the Sermon on the
Mount.

1481
01:31:59,680 --> 01:32:03,240
You're commanded to be perfect
even as your Father in heaven is

1482
01:32:03,240 --> 01:32:06,600
perfect.
Well, that doesn't mean our idea

1483
01:32:06,600 --> 01:32:12,640
of perfection, when you look at
that word perfection in its

1484
01:32:12,640 --> 01:32:18,480
original Hebrew, it means
literally whole or balanced,

1485
01:32:18,480 --> 01:32:21,560
right?
A complete person, they are

1486
01:32:21,560 --> 01:32:25,000
complete.
That's a whole lot different

1487
01:32:25,000 --> 01:32:29,920
than perfection.
And I think we can look and, and

1488
01:32:29,920 --> 01:32:34,920
we can see where this Scripture
has been maybe used to, to allow

1489
01:32:34,920 --> 01:32:38,080
ourselves to beat ourselves up
because we weren't perfect.

1490
01:32:39,240 --> 01:32:42,960
And in all reality, that's not
what the Savior is saying there.

1491
01:32:43,160 --> 01:32:47,400
He says, be whole, be complete,
be, you know, have have your

1492
01:32:47,400 --> 01:32:49,840
physical life in order, have
your spiritual life in order,

1493
01:32:49,840 --> 01:32:53,360
have your family life in order,
be balanced, be complete.

1494
01:32:53,640 --> 01:32:58,240
And once you put context to all
those things, well, then the

1495
01:32:58,240 --> 01:33:01,000
scripture goes from being
something where you're like, Oh,

1496
01:33:01,120 --> 01:33:03,440
geez, here we go again.
I got to try to be perfect.

1497
01:33:03,840 --> 01:33:07,600
And you get to a point of no, I
just need to be balanced in how

1498
01:33:07,600 --> 01:33:11,400
I approach things.
And balance is a lot easier to

1499
01:33:11,400 --> 01:33:14,320
try to tackle.
It's still hard, but it's a lot

1500
01:33:14,320 --> 01:33:16,120
easier to tackle than
perfection.

1501
01:33:17,480 --> 01:33:19,520
I love that.
That's such a great insight.

1502
01:33:19,840 --> 01:33:25,840
And I'm not an artist, that is
just so not my talent, but I

1503
01:33:25,840 --> 01:33:30,320
love art and learning about art.
And before Hebrew was a written

1504
01:33:30,320 --> 01:33:35,320
language as we know it today,
they wrote kind of like Egyptian

1505
01:33:35,320 --> 01:33:37,400
hieroglyphics.
In other words, they use

1506
01:33:37,400 --> 01:33:42,360
pictograms, you know, in the
pictures of things to convey

1507
01:33:42,360 --> 01:33:48,840
ideas.
And the very first sentence in

1508
01:33:48,840 --> 01:33:54,520
the Old Testament in Hebrew,
well in English too, is, you

1509
01:33:54,520 --> 01:33:58,960
know, the very first sentence.
In the beginning.

1510
01:33:59,680 --> 01:34:02,800
Yeah, in the beginning, God
created the heavens and the

1511
01:34:02,800 --> 01:34:04,200
earth, right?
Yeah.

1512
01:34:04,200 --> 01:34:10,040
And so when you pick apart
today's Hebrew, the words that

1513
01:34:10,040 --> 01:34:14,160
they created you and they read,
they read and write from right

1514
01:34:14,160 --> 01:34:17,080
to left.
So I don't know, what if I'm

1515
01:34:17,360 --> 01:34:21,000
pointing right to left on, you
know, how things get switched on

1516
01:34:21,000 --> 01:34:22,560
camera.
So anyway, pretend like I'm

1517
01:34:22,560 --> 01:34:24,840
going right to left because
that's what I'm doing in my

1518
01:34:25,200 --> 01:34:28,480
world right now.
But anyway, you pick apart those

1519
01:34:28,480 --> 01:34:35,240
words and it describes in the
beginning, before this mortal

1520
01:34:35,240 --> 01:34:41,440
existence, the gods plural,
because Elohim is plural,

1521
01:34:41,440 --> 01:34:45,840
whether it be Adam and Eve
together as a God entity or the

1522
01:34:45,840 --> 01:34:49,040
council of gods.
And there's debate about both of

1523
01:34:49,040 --> 01:34:52,680
those ideas.
But you know, they created

1524
01:34:53,480 --> 01:34:57,560
basically the way that it it
works is I mean, the way that it

1525
01:34:58,600 --> 01:35:03,920
translates is they had man come
here to earth and there was a

1526
01:35:03,920 --> 01:35:08,640
plan and there would be a savior
to redeem them from the sins of

1527
01:35:08,640 --> 01:35:13,600
this world.
And the pictogram showed like a

1528
01:35:13,680 --> 01:35:19,000
a bowl, which bulls horns like
even in sign language if you do

1529
01:35:19,000 --> 01:35:21,720
bulls that.
Represents alfit if I'm not

1530
01:35:21,720 --> 01:35:23,440
mistaken right?
Isn't that the name for it?

1531
01:35:23,920 --> 01:35:27,120
The Alfit Alfit.
Yeah, Aleph.

1532
01:35:27,720 --> 01:35:31,480
Yeah.
So it represents power, but in

1533
01:35:31,480 --> 01:35:33,800
sign language it does too, which
I think is really interesting.

1534
01:35:34,840 --> 01:35:38,200
So we're talking about the gods
and those who were in power set

1535
01:35:38,200 --> 01:35:41,320
up this plan.
And then there's actually a

1536
01:35:41,320 --> 01:35:44,800
cross.
The pictogram has a wooden

1537
01:35:44,800 --> 01:35:47,640
cross.
So Jesus Christ is in the very

1538
01:35:47,640 --> 01:35:51,600
first sentence of the Bible in
Hebrew.

1539
01:35:51,920 --> 01:35:56,680
And yet again, some Hebrews saw
Jesus for the Messiah when he

1540
01:35:56,680 --> 01:35:58,480
came the first time, and then
some of them did.

1541
01:35:58,480 --> 01:36:02,640
And some obviously still don't
see him in the Old Testament at

1542
01:36:02,640 --> 01:36:04,880
all.
But there are so many things

1543
01:36:04,880 --> 01:36:08,160
that point to Jesus in the Old
Testament.

1544
01:36:08,160 --> 01:36:13,800
And I told you I just moved to
Utah and from Las Vegas and I

1545
01:36:13,800 --> 01:36:16,920
just got a new calling here
since I just moved here.

1546
01:36:17,120 --> 01:36:21,840
And I'm going to be teaching Old
Testament and or you should say

1547
01:36:21,840 --> 01:36:25,600
Gospel doctrine.
I taught the last lesson at the

1548
01:36:25,600 --> 01:36:28,600
Doctrine and Covenants for my
first lesson, But then the next

1549
01:36:28,600 --> 01:36:31,640
lesson I'm teaching is the first
Sunday in January.

1550
01:36:31,960 --> 01:36:34,320
And that's my big goal.
And I'm going to spend the whole

1551
01:36:34,320 --> 01:36:36,920
lesson.
If you've seen actually do

1552
01:36:36,920 --> 01:36:40,320
fundamentalists use the Come
Follow Me program?

1553
01:36:41,000 --> 01:36:43,000
No.
No, we, we, we do not.

1554
01:36:43,000 --> 01:36:50,800
We, we tend, we tend to, to, to,
well, look, there's a bunch of

1555
01:36:50,800 --> 01:36:54,480
different fundamentalist groups
and then there's independence.

1556
01:36:54,640 --> 01:36:57,480
So I can't say no across the
board.

1557
01:36:58,200 --> 01:37:01,960
We typically have not that, you
know, the, the, the group I I

1558
01:37:01,960 --> 01:37:06,480
associate with doesn't mean that
there's not families out there

1559
01:37:06,480 --> 01:37:09,440
who aren't using it or whatever.
It's pretty good curriculum.

1560
01:37:09,440 --> 01:37:11,920
I was there.
I was still in the church.

1561
01:37:12,960 --> 01:37:15,440
I want to say year two of the
program but don't go.

1562
01:37:15,480 --> 01:37:17,680
OK.
So it's, it's not, yeah, it's

1563
01:37:17,680 --> 01:37:19,880
not not a bad program at all to
work through the.

1564
01:37:19,880 --> 01:37:23,120
Scripture with it's a great
program and every year we focus

1565
01:37:23,120 --> 01:37:25,080
on a different block of
Scripture.

1566
01:37:25,080 --> 01:37:29,520
So last year we just finished
Doctrine and Covenants. 2026 is

1567
01:37:29,520 --> 01:37:31,400
all about the Old Testament
obviously.

1568
01:37:31,560 --> 01:37:36,400
And the first lesson that they
have us teaching is look for

1569
01:37:36,480 --> 01:37:38,560
Jesus Christ in the Old
Testament.

1570
01:37:39,080 --> 01:37:42,400
It is sometimes we just get all
wrapped up in these weird

1571
01:37:42,400 --> 01:37:46,120
stories and we're like, why
should I care about this random

1572
01:37:46,120 --> 01:37:48,480
thing?
You know, because there are

1573
01:37:48,480 --> 01:37:53,320
layers of understanding and so
many types and symbols that

1574
01:37:53,320 --> 01:37:58,720
point to Jesus Christ so many
times that God was trying to

1575
01:37:58,720 --> 01:38:05,120
say, do this thing so that when
Jesus comes, you'll recognize

1576
01:38:05,120 --> 01:38:06,720
him.
Like the whole Passover, like

1577
01:38:06,720 --> 01:38:11,400
you just said it all, all of the
symbols, all the food items, for

1578
01:38:11,400 --> 01:38:16,000
example, on the Passover meal,
they all point to Jesus Christ.

1579
01:38:16,000 --> 01:38:18,960
And the Bible of the Old
Testament is filled with stuff

1580
01:38:18,960 --> 01:38:20,520
like that.
So I'm super excited.

1581
01:38:21,600 --> 01:38:25,120
Awesome, awesome.
So was there any other parts of

1582
01:38:25,120 --> 01:38:27,960
the book you wanted to share?
If not, I got other questions

1583
01:38:27,960 --> 01:38:30,920
and we can move on from here.
Yeah, we, we can move on.

1584
01:38:30,920 --> 01:38:34,160
I mean, obviously you can get
both of these books on Amazon,

1585
01:38:34,160 --> 01:38:37,520
my little shameless plug, as
well as I have 35 books.

1586
01:38:37,520 --> 01:38:40,800
And so you can find almost all
of them on Amazon, some of them

1587
01:38:40,800 --> 01:38:43,040
in bookstores.
The the newer ones that are

1588
01:38:43,040 --> 01:38:45,240
still in books, well, even some
of the old ones are still in

1589
01:38:45,240 --> 01:38:47,760
bookstores.
Don't worry, we're not we're not

1590
01:38:47,760 --> 01:38:50,440
done shamelessly plugging.
I'll I can do that for you.

1591
01:38:50,760 --> 01:38:53,320
I my buddy Ken Peterson, shout
out to him.

1592
01:38:53,600 --> 01:38:56,680
Active LDS guy wrote the book
Mormonism in the Apocrypha.

1593
01:38:56,680 --> 01:38:59,360
Every time he comes on, I'm
like, what was that book again?

1594
01:38:59,360 --> 01:39:01,160
You got that from Ken.
Can you tell me that one more

1595
01:39:01,160 --> 01:39:03,200
time?
And he gets I wear him out with

1596
01:39:03,200 --> 01:39:04,000
it.
He hates that.

1597
01:39:04,040 --> 01:39:06,520
But yeah, that is such a
fascinating topic.

1598
01:39:06,520 --> 01:39:10,440
I went to BYU Education Week
this last August because we had

1599
01:39:10,440 --> 01:39:12,920
just moved here in July and I'm
like, I live here, I can go

1600
01:39:12,920 --> 01:39:16,280
every day if I want anyway.
And so I went to a whole series

1601
01:39:16,280 --> 01:39:18,880
on the Apocrypha.
Super fascinating stuff.

1602
01:39:19,920 --> 01:39:23,560
So some of my follow up
questions here are are first,

1603
01:39:23,560 --> 01:39:27,040
are you proficient in Hebrew?
Is that is that how you were

1604
01:39:27,040 --> 01:39:31,880
able to to get this book done?
No, I would not say that at all.

1605
01:39:31,960 --> 01:39:39,720
No, I I love learning it and
studying it, but no, I would

1606
01:39:39,720 --> 01:39:41,840
never ever say that I was an
expert at all.

1607
01:39:42,560 --> 01:39:45,040
Gotcha.
All right, No, I was just

1608
01:39:45,040 --> 01:39:47,120
curious.
I, I know a couple of guys who

1609
01:39:47,120 --> 01:39:51,560
are and, and typically when,
when they're talking to me, I'm

1610
01:39:51,560 --> 01:39:55,520
like, Yep, Yep, I'm a moron.
Those guys who can learn Hebrew

1611
01:39:55,520 --> 01:40:01,120
like that, man, that's that's
really, that's, that's top notch

1612
01:40:01,120 --> 01:40:02,680
stuff.
I'm I'm not sure I'll ever get

1613
01:40:02,680 --> 01:40:04,640
there.
I hope to someday, but I'm not

1614
01:40:04,640 --> 01:40:08,480
sure I'll ever get there.
I can understand some word, for

1615
01:40:08,480 --> 01:40:12,760
example, I was at a gym and this
is sort of the origins of that

1616
01:40:12,840 --> 01:40:15,640
the the Hebrew book or the
language of Heaven book.

1617
01:40:16,120 --> 01:40:18,760
I was in the gym, I was in the
sauna, and there were two guys

1618
01:40:18,760 --> 01:40:20,440
sitting next to me speaking
Hebrew.

1619
01:40:20,440 --> 01:40:23,160
And I knew they were speaking
Hebrew, but I wasn't catching

1620
01:40:23,160 --> 01:40:25,680
everything they were saying.
And so finally there was like a

1621
01:40:25,680 --> 01:40:27,280
little pause in their
conversation.

1622
01:40:27,280 --> 01:40:29,160
And I said, are you guys
speaking Hebrew?

1623
01:40:29,160 --> 01:40:31,560
And they're like, yeah.
And so I'm like, oh, I want to

1624
01:40:31,560 --> 01:40:33,320
write this book.
You know who?

1625
01:40:33,320 --> 01:40:35,040
What?
Which rabbi in town would you

1626
01:40:35,040 --> 01:40:37,400
recommend?
And they were like, shocked, you

1627
01:40:37,400 --> 01:40:40,280
know, this lady in a bathing
suit in the in the saunas

1628
01:40:40,280 --> 01:40:43,160
talking about Hebrew and wanting
to study with the rabbi, you

1629
01:40:43,160 --> 01:40:45,520
know.
Anyway, turns out it was a

1630
01:40:45,680 --> 01:40:47,560
couple of really great young
guys.

1631
01:40:47,840 --> 01:40:53,040
They were actually talking about
this one guy was having an

1632
01:40:53,040 --> 01:40:56,120
argument with his girlfriend,
you know, and I wanted to give

1633
01:40:56,120 --> 01:40:58,640
him my female advice, but I
didn't talk about that.

1634
01:40:58,840 --> 01:41:01,240
You know, it was just kind of
entertaining to hear what they

1635
01:41:01,240 --> 01:41:03,440
were saying.
I was like, I have a lot of

1636
01:41:03,440 --> 01:41:06,360
advice for you, but let's talk
about Hebrew anyway.

1637
01:41:06,640 --> 01:41:09,640
So they were the one that put me
in touch with this one rabbi

1638
01:41:10,120 --> 01:41:12,960
that I studied with.
And they both the both the young

1639
01:41:12,960 --> 01:41:15,520
guy and the rabbi wrote
endorsements for the book.

1640
01:41:15,840 --> 01:41:18,160
And one of the rabbi was really
sweet.

1641
01:41:18,160 --> 01:41:22,800
He said, you know, I, I love how
Trina has presented this

1642
01:41:22,800 --> 01:41:27,000
information, especially to help
Christians understand Judaism.

1643
01:41:27,000 --> 01:41:29,000
But he said, you know, the
reverse is true.

1644
01:41:29,280 --> 01:41:33,800
Jews can understand and learn a
lot about Christianity based on,

1645
01:41:33,800 --> 01:41:37,800
you know, how she's comparing
and contrasting words and trying

1646
01:41:37,800 --> 01:41:43,880
to dig deeper and find relations
between our understanding and

1647
01:41:43,880 --> 01:41:45,880
maybe a deeper level of
understanding.

1648
01:41:46,160 --> 01:41:50,960
But anyway, said this rabbi, he
said I was asking a lot of

1649
01:41:50,960 --> 01:41:54,760
really dumb questions, some good
questions, but some really basic

1650
01:41:54,760 --> 01:41:56,640
stuff.
And he said, but, you know, I

1651
01:41:56,640 --> 01:41:59,120
think you might really benefit
from reading this one book by

1652
01:41:59,120 --> 01:42:00,720
this one rabbi that I really
like.

1653
01:42:01,000 --> 01:42:03,520
And so I was like, absolutely,
whatever you want me to read.

1654
01:42:03,520 --> 01:42:06,320
And so he recommends this book.
And I go on to Amazon.

1655
01:42:06,320 --> 01:42:10,560
I see the cover of the book, and
it doesn't show you how thick

1656
01:42:10,560 --> 01:42:12,960
the book is.
If I'd paid attention, it would

1657
01:42:12,960 --> 01:42:15,760
have told me how many pages.
But anyway, so I buy it.

1658
01:42:15,960 --> 01:42:19,200
It comes in the mail.
The book is like that thick.

1659
01:42:19,200 --> 01:42:23,040
You know, I'm like, oh, I've got
a lot of reading to do.

1660
01:42:23,040 --> 01:42:26,440
Anyway, it's a great book.
That's awesome.

1661
01:42:26,600 --> 01:42:28,880
So did he help out a lot with
the translation?

1662
01:42:29,320 --> 01:42:32,960
That one, That one rabbi.
Yeah, with some of it.

1663
01:42:33,360 --> 01:42:37,360
And then you mean the the, the
in person rabbi and then the

1664
01:42:37,360 --> 01:42:39,280
book.
I learned a lot of stuff and

1665
01:42:39,280 --> 01:42:44,400
then just doing research online.
And they have classes that you

1666
01:42:44,400 --> 01:42:49,040
can take from colleges where
even BYU has a really great one

1667
01:42:49,040 --> 01:42:51,960
where you don't get college
credit, but you can get a

1668
01:42:51,960 --> 01:42:56,040
certificate in Hebrew from BYU.
If you go through this

1669
01:42:56,040 --> 01:42:58,560
particular class.
The teacher that does that is

1670
01:42:58,560 --> 01:43:01,520
Doctor Perry, Donald Perry.
In fact, he was the one that was

1671
01:43:01,520 --> 01:43:04,160
teaching that class at BYU
Education Week.

1672
01:43:04,160 --> 01:43:06,320
And so he kind of put in a plug
for that.

1673
01:43:07,000 --> 01:43:11,320
And Duolingo has Hebrew where
you can learn Hebrew.

1674
01:43:11,320 --> 01:43:13,800
Do you know what Duolingo is I.
Do not.

1675
01:43:14,040 --> 01:43:19,400
Oh, it's a, a free app or you
can pay to upgrade it and have

1676
01:43:19,400 --> 01:43:24,560
more functionality, but it
teaches you languages, whatever.

1677
01:43:24,560 --> 01:43:29,400
And so I've been learning
Hebrew, Mandarin, German and

1678
01:43:29,400 --> 01:43:34,280
French on Duolingo.
And it's, it's like a gamifying

1679
01:43:34,280 --> 01:43:38,440
education, language learning
Anyway, So I do it every day.

1680
01:43:38,440 --> 01:43:44,200
In fact, today I'm on a 1040 day
streak, meaning every single day

1681
01:43:44,200 --> 01:43:47,640
I've been studying on Duolingo.
Wow, that's impressive.

1682
01:43:47,920 --> 01:43:50,000
Yeah, I think language is
fascinating.

1683
01:43:50,320 --> 01:43:52,840
I mean, think of what Jesus
Christ is.

1684
01:43:53,000 --> 01:43:57,080
He's been described as the word.
Right.

1685
01:43:57,160 --> 01:43:58,640
Yep, right.
Absolutely.

1686
01:43:58,680 --> 01:44:03,000
Words have power.
Absolutely.

1687
01:44:03,400 --> 01:44:08,400
As as you were putting together
the book about about Hebrew and

1688
01:44:08,400 --> 01:44:11,200
that sort of thing, what was the
biggest challenge to you?

1689
01:44:14,320 --> 01:44:20,240
Probably learning Hebrew.
Do you mean like the writing of

1690
01:44:20,240 --> 01:44:23,120
it or the content?
All of it.

1691
01:44:23,280 --> 01:44:25,040
Any of it.
Yeah, probably just learning

1692
01:44:25,040 --> 01:44:27,720
about Hebrew.
And even though I've studied

1693
01:44:27,720 --> 01:44:31,120
Judaism for many years, I
learned so many new things that

1694
01:44:31,120 --> 01:44:33,520
I was like, how did I not know
that before?

1695
01:44:33,520 --> 01:44:38,760
That's so fascinating.
But even understanding concepts

1696
01:44:41,400 --> 01:44:46,000
of of the actual language of
Hebrew, I, I, it it's hard for

1697
01:44:46,000 --> 01:44:51,240
me especially like I can
understand I because I'm fluent

1698
01:44:51,240 --> 01:44:54,000
in Spanish already.
I can understand a lot of

1699
01:44:54,560 --> 01:44:59,520
Portuguese, French, Italian,
because they're Latin based

1700
01:44:59,520 --> 01:45:03,520
Romance languages and they have
so many similar roots.

1701
01:45:04,040 --> 01:45:07,320
And, and so I'm familiar.
So those are fairly easy for me

1702
01:45:07,320 --> 01:45:09,240
to learn.
But then I started learning

1703
01:45:09,240 --> 01:45:14,480
German last year because my
grandmother is from Germany and

1704
01:45:14,480 --> 01:45:17,520
my husband and I actually went
to Germany in Austria twice last

1705
01:45:17,520 --> 01:45:19,920
year.
And it's very different.

1706
01:45:19,920 --> 01:45:25,920
It's, you know, a Germanic
language, but English has roots

1707
01:45:25,920 --> 01:45:29,720
of both the Romance and the
Germanic languages, but their

1708
01:45:29,720 --> 01:45:32,240
sentence structure is so
different.

1709
01:45:32,480 --> 01:45:37,480
And then Hebrew, like Mandarin
with the, the chicken scratch,

1710
01:45:37,880 --> 01:45:42,360
you know, I call it, the letters
are so hard for me.

1711
01:45:42,360 --> 01:45:44,760
My one of my sons married a girl
from Hong Kong.

1712
01:45:44,760 --> 01:45:49,160
And so I had been doing a lot of
business going to Hong Kong or

1713
01:45:49,160 --> 01:45:52,280
to mainland and Hong Kong, but
mostly mainland back and forth

1714
01:45:52,280 --> 01:45:54,600
for a number of years.
And I just loved it.

1715
01:45:55,600 --> 01:45:59,600
And so I could speak a little
Mandarin and have conversations,

1716
01:45:59,600 --> 01:46:04,800
but I couldn't read signs
because it just looks just all

1717
01:46:05,400 --> 01:46:07,840
chicken scratch.
It's really hard for me anyway.

1718
01:46:08,520 --> 01:46:10,680
So the language probably that
was the hardest part for me.

1719
01:46:11,600 --> 01:46:14,000
But also fun.
I could see it, I could see it.

1720
01:46:14,160 --> 01:46:15,440
I get it.
I.

1721
01:46:15,480 --> 01:46:18,560
So for example, we were talking
about what was the word that we

1722
01:46:18,560 --> 01:46:23,240
were talking about?
Oh, in Shema, for example, if

1723
01:46:23,240 --> 01:46:27,080
you take the last Hebrew letter
in Shema and then you take the

1724
01:46:27,080 --> 01:46:30,480
1st letter of another word,
which is sort of related Enoch,

1725
01:46:30,880 --> 01:46:33,760
and you put them together, it
spells the word in Hebrew

1726
01:46:33,760 --> 01:46:36,600
witness.
So when you're saying that Shema

1727
01:46:36,600 --> 01:46:41,560
prayer, you are witnessing to
God what your faith is, that you

1728
01:46:41,560 --> 01:46:47,480
believe in him and that you're
going to obey and and try to be

1729
01:46:47,480 --> 01:46:50,640
worthy of all of his blessings.
You know, that's just another

1730
01:46:50,640 --> 01:46:53,440
little element that's embedded
in that.

1731
01:46:53,440 --> 01:46:55,400
I just think that that's so
cool.

1732
01:46:55,760 --> 01:46:58,560
Absolutely.
Let me ask you this question.

1733
01:47:00,320 --> 01:47:04,920
What is your hope that that
people will get from these books

1734
01:47:04,920 --> 01:47:09,640
that you've written?
Well, the simple answer would be

1735
01:47:09,640 --> 01:47:13,680
a greater pro, more profound
testimony of Jesus Christ that

1736
01:47:13,680 --> 01:47:19,600
he is real and that he lives and
that the more I learn, the more

1737
01:47:19,600 --> 01:47:23,960
it just seems so obvious that
it's all true.

1738
01:47:24,440 --> 01:47:29,920
You know, I, I have dear friends
who don't know if God is real or

1739
01:47:29,920 --> 01:47:35,160
if Jesus Christ is real or if
he's the Messiah, you know, and

1740
01:47:35,880 --> 01:47:39,960
we all have to get there, right?
We all have to study and learn

1741
01:47:40,320 --> 01:47:44,000
and like you, be open and
willing to learn and to find the

1742
01:47:44,000 --> 01:47:47,720
truth.
And for me, it just seems so

1743
01:47:47,720 --> 01:47:53,680
obvious because there's so many
layers and each layer teaches

1744
01:47:53,680 --> 01:47:56,720
you another element or another
character of God.

1745
01:47:57,600 --> 01:48:00,600
Hey, I've got a podcast I would
recommend to you and your

1746
01:48:00,600 --> 01:48:03,080
listeners.
I think it's fascinating.

1747
01:48:03,280 --> 01:48:05,560
It's called the ancient
tradition.

1748
01:48:05,800 --> 01:48:08,040
Have you ever heard that?
I have not.

1749
01:48:08,760 --> 01:48:14,640
It is so cool because one of my
sons wants to know what is the

1750
01:48:14,640 --> 01:48:18,600
original religion, right?
And, and that's what this whole

1751
01:48:18,600 --> 01:48:22,160
podcast is.
It's this professor, I think she

1752
01:48:22,160 --> 01:48:26,080
goes to Yale, she teaches at
Yale University, but she's

1753
01:48:26,520 --> 01:48:29,280
really impossible to find
online.

1754
01:48:29,280 --> 01:48:32,120
But she just kind of leaves
these little clues.

1755
01:48:33,240 --> 01:48:36,760
And I think she also is a member
of the Church of Jesus Christ of

1756
01:48:36,760 --> 01:48:39,960
Latter Day Saints based on the
things that she says.

1757
01:48:39,960 --> 01:48:45,320
I'm just like that's we believe
that it's totally supports

1758
01:48:45,360 --> 01:48:47,560
everything that I already
believe.

1759
01:48:47,760 --> 01:48:51,040
But what she does is she has
gone and, and I have wanted to

1760
01:48:51,040 --> 01:48:56,720
do this, but she's taken the
time to do this, to really study

1761
01:48:56,760 --> 01:48:59,680
every religion out there in the
world and find what are the

1762
01:48:59,680 --> 01:49:03,680
common elements?
Where did those common elements

1763
01:49:03,680 --> 01:49:07,320
come from?
And so she goes way back to

1764
01:49:07,520 --> 01:49:11,480
ancient scripts, ancient
manuscripts from all of these

1765
01:49:11,480 --> 01:49:13,480
cultures and religions around
the world.

1766
01:49:13,840 --> 01:49:19,480
And there's a common story.
And other religions maybe will

1767
01:49:20,920 --> 01:49:24,360
really latch on to this one part
of the story.

1768
01:49:24,360 --> 01:49:27,040
And then that's how their
religion is founded, you know?

1769
01:49:27,040 --> 01:49:30,040
And then another religion maybe
will pick that part of the story

1770
01:49:30,040 --> 01:49:34,120
that they really get into
anyway, I think that's super

1771
01:49:34,120 --> 01:49:37,920
fascinating.
So if you have any listeners who

1772
01:49:38,120 --> 01:49:41,160
would love to do the same thing
but don't have the time, I

1773
01:49:41,160 --> 01:49:45,320
highly recommend that podcast.
I think it is so good, so full

1774
01:49:45,320 --> 01:49:51,160
of symbolism, so many things.
For example, the symbols of it's

1775
01:49:51,160 --> 01:49:56,840
almost like the epic drama.
You know, as a writer, I don't

1776
01:49:56,840 --> 01:50:02,760
write fiction, but you know, the
epic drama, the heroes journey,

1777
01:50:02,960 --> 01:50:07,160
that's the story.
And when you look at, for

1778
01:50:07,160 --> 01:50:10,640
example, the Olympics and you
look at all of the symbols in

1779
01:50:10,640 --> 01:50:12,320
the Olympics, where did those
come from?

1780
01:50:12,680 --> 01:50:15,120
They came from the ancient
tradition.

1781
01:50:15,120 --> 01:50:18,080
And they mean this, that.
And the other thing where you

1782
01:50:18,080 --> 01:50:23,360
look at any religion and you're
like, that is that same hero's

1783
01:50:23,360 --> 01:50:28,640
journey that we're all on in
this life to we were we.

1784
01:50:30,040 --> 01:50:32,240
I mean, what is the the hero's
drama?

1785
01:50:32,240 --> 01:50:34,200
Are you a big fiction fan?
You know what?

1786
01:50:34,200 --> 01:50:37,640
Happens Oh, Oh yeah, no, I love
me some Joseph Campbell.

1787
01:50:38,400 --> 01:50:44,640
So yeah, the hero's journey is
is kind of a pattern that that

1788
01:50:44,640 --> 01:50:48,960
we find throughout history, both
as a literary device and I think

1789
01:50:48,960 --> 01:50:52,240
it follows the human experience.
Look, we're all heroes of our

1790
01:50:52,240 --> 01:50:55,360
own stories, right?
It's it's just the way it is.

1791
01:50:55,800 --> 01:50:59,720
And the hero's journey typically
begins with, with a call to

1792
01:50:59,720 --> 01:51:02,000
action, right?
Something has happened that that

1793
01:51:02,320 --> 01:51:06,880
causes you to go on a quest,
either a physical quest or a, a

1794
01:51:06,880 --> 01:51:11,440
metaphysical quest, if you will.
And then usually you're, you're

1795
01:51:11,440 --> 01:51:15,720
accompanied by a mentor, then
the mentor goes away, then the

1796
01:51:15,720 --> 01:51:21,440
hero gets defeated.
Then the hero goes back and, and

1797
01:51:21,440 --> 01:51:24,920
tries to get better and comes
back and finally gets rid of the

1798
01:51:24,920 --> 01:51:27,440
adverse, you know, whatever
adversary they're working

1799
01:51:27,440 --> 01:51:29,720
against.
And then there's a return home.

1800
01:51:30,040 --> 01:51:33,600
And if I'm not mistaken, that is
kind of the, the pattern of the

1801
01:51:33,600 --> 01:51:37,160
hero's journey.
And, and you can see this in all

1802
01:51:37,160 --> 01:51:41,040
sorts of literature ranging
from, and movies, by the way,

1803
01:51:41,280 --> 01:51:45,840
ranging from like the classics
and, you know, Greek mythology.

1804
01:51:46,960 --> 01:51:49,000
Odysseus goes on the hero's
journey.

1805
01:51:49,000 --> 01:51:53,000
Hercules goes on the hero's
journey in modern day.

1806
01:51:53,000 --> 01:51:55,240
Star Wars is all about the
hero's journey.

1807
01:51:56,280 --> 01:52:01,880
And so the reason it's so
powerful is because it really

1808
01:52:01,880 --> 01:52:04,480
does mimic real life and how we
do things.

1809
01:52:04,480 --> 01:52:09,000
I think all of us repeat the
hero's journey many times in our

1810
01:52:09,000 --> 01:52:17,480
life as we as we seek to go and
we try to get better, right?

1811
01:52:17,760 --> 01:52:21,440
All of us start out on some sort
of journey, whether that is

1812
01:52:22,040 --> 01:52:25,400
figurative or literally, and
we're going to repeat that

1813
01:52:25,400 --> 01:52:28,200
pattern several, several times,
and that's where growth comes

1814
01:52:28,200 --> 01:52:30,720
from.
But it's the hero's journeys in

1815
01:52:30,720 --> 01:52:33,760
Harry Potter and Lord of the
Rings and you know, all of these

1816
01:52:33,800 --> 01:52:38,160
epic journeys where absolutely
the hero has to find out who the

1817
01:52:38,160 --> 01:52:42,200
he is or she, you know, who they
are as they go through

1818
01:52:42,200 --> 01:52:43,920
challenges.
And you and I just talked about

1819
01:52:44,000 --> 01:52:47,200
the value of going through
struggles and challenges because

1820
01:52:47,600 --> 01:52:51,200
it is a journey of self
discovery and the ultimate goal

1821
01:52:51,200 --> 01:52:54,040
of returning home victoriously,
right?

1822
01:52:54,560 --> 01:52:55,440
Exactly.
Yep.

1823
01:52:55,520 --> 01:52:57,080
And so that's kind of the hero's
journey.

1824
01:52:57,080 --> 01:53:00,440
It's it's, it's, it's, it's
secular in nature, right,

1825
01:53:00,440 --> 01:53:02,720
Because you ultimately end back
to where you started.

1826
01:53:03,120 --> 01:53:08,560
But you, the hero has, has come
to full actualization, right?

1827
01:53:08,680 --> 01:53:12,520
He knows who he is.
He's defeated the monsters and

1828
01:53:12,520 --> 01:53:16,440
has returned home victorious.
And, and the, the reason we

1829
01:53:16,440 --> 01:53:20,560
should know this, right?
Because I think the reason it's

1830
01:53:20,560 --> 01:53:23,120
a pattern is because it's true,
right?

1831
01:53:24,280 --> 01:53:27,840
People, people look at the, the
hero's journey and sometimes

1832
01:53:27,840 --> 01:53:35,200
they divorce themselves of the,
the utilitarian benefits of, of

1833
01:53:35,200 --> 01:53:39,560
understanding that.
And whether we realize it or

1834
01:53:39,560 --> 01:53:42,120
not, we are the heroes in our
own story.

1835
01:53:42,120 --> 01:53:44,640
And I think God meant it to be
that way, right?

1836
01:53:45,000 --> 01:53:50,480
And so we all, we all imitate
the hero's journey at one point

1837
01:53:50,480 --> 01:53:53,400
or another.
And so, yeah, I'm, I'm, I'm

1838
01:53:54,200 --> 01:53:56,120
pretty familiar with the the
concept there.

1839
01:53:56,120 --> 01:53:59,440
Yeah, it's like even the story
of the Good Samaritan, you know,

1840
01:53:59,440 --> 01:54:02,800
you can look at that at face
value and say, oh, the lesson

1841
01:54:02,800 --> 01:54:06,200
we're supposed to learn is to be
kind and to help other people,

1842
01:54:06,200 --> 01:54:07,960
right?
Great lesson.

1843
01:54:08,520 --> 01:54:14,800
But wait, there's more, right?
That that man who was out in the

1844
01:54:14,800 --> 01:54:19,520
wilderness is US, and he fell
among thieves, which is all the

1845
01:54:19,520 --> 01:54:23,520
wickedness in the world, right?
And that Samaritan who helped

1846
01:54:23,520 --> 01:54:27,680
him is Jesus Christ, right?
I mean, you could go on and on

1847
01:54:27,680 --> 01:54:31,640
and dig even deeper and look at
even more layers.

1848
01:54:32,680 --> 01:54:34,560
And so you asked again, what is
my hope?

1849
01:54:34,560 --> 01:54:38,200
I hope that people look for
those layers and they see Jesus

1850
01:54:38,200 --> 01:54:42,080
Christ and all of the things
that testify in Jesus Christ.

1851
01:54:42,680 --> 01:54:44,800
Beautiful.
Well, Trina, we've, we've been

1852
01:54:44,800 --> 01:54:47,600
going down this road now for,
for just about two hours.

1853
01:54:47,600 --> 01:54:51,800
Is there anything else?
You yeah, yeah, no, it goes

1854
01:54:51,800 --> 01:54:56,000
quick, right.
Is is there anything else you

1855
01:54:56,000 --> 01:54:59,720
wanted to to bring up?
I hope somebody still.

1856
01:54:59,720 --> 01:55:03,240
Don't worry about that.
I've had I've done way longer

1857
01:55:03,240 --> 01:55:04,520
podcast.
You're just fine.

1858
01:55:04,960 --> 01:55:08,800
Oh trust me, this isn't bad.
I have had a couple of five hour

1859
01:55:08,800 --> 01:55:11,440
podcasts before.
Yeah, you totally have 4 hours.

1860
01:55:11,480 --> 01:55:14,360
Wow.
And, and I've also had some that

1861
01:55:14,360 --> 01:55:18,160
have been several episodes that
total about 18 hours on certain

1862
01:55:18,160 --> 01:55:21,240
subjects.
So it's yeah, no, you're, you're

1863
01:55:21,240 --> 01:55:24,000
just fine.
Is there anything you want to

1864
01:55:24,440 --> 01:55:26,320
mention?
We didn't, you know, I didn't

1865
01:55:26,320 --> 01:55:28,880
ask a question about or anything
you wanted to bring up that that

1866
01:55:28,880 --> 01:55:33,000
we didn't have a chance to.
Well, you would ask me what was

1867
01:55:33,000 --> 01:55:34,960
the most difficult part of
writing the book.

1868
01:55:34,960 --> 01:55:37,720
And so we didn't really talk.
I mean, I didn't talk so much

1869
01:55:37,720 --> 01:55:42,520
about the writing of it, but I
kind of feel like everybody has

1870
01:55:42,520 --> 01:55:45,920
a book in them.
I mean, I think it's telling

1871
01:55:45,920 --> 01:55:50,120
that that God gave us
scriptures, you know, to read

1872
01:55:50,240 --> 01:55:55,600
books and that you mentioned we
are the writer of our own story,

1873
01:55:55,600 --> 01:56:00,480
our own hero's journey.
And So what book do you have

1874
01:56:00,480 --> 01:56:03,800
inside of you that hasn't been
written yet?

1875
01:56:05,400 --> 01:56:08,640
Is that actually a question for
me or was that like a rhetorical

1876
01:56:08,640 --> 01:56:10,080
question?
Yeah, it could go out to

1877
01:56:10,080 --> 01:56:13,200
everybody too, but for you
specifically, do you have a book

1878
01:56:13,200 --> 01:56:15,960
in you that you haven't written?
Well, there is.

1879
01:56:15,960 --> 01:56:18,720
But look, let's face it, there's
a reason I do a podcast.

1880
01:56:18,960 --> 01:56:20,800
That's because I I stink at
writing.

1881
01:56:23,720 --> 01:56:26,440
Well, you can turn transcripts
into a book.

1882
01:56:26,440 --> 01:56:29,480
You know, like back in the day
when everybody was blogging.

1883
01:56:29,720 --> 01:56:33,760
You can turn a blog into a book.
Yes, well, that, that is true.

1884
01:56:33,760 --> 01:56:37,240
But I mean, look, there's things
that that I have to do and, and

1885
01:56:37,520 --> 01:56:39,920
I'm going to do them until I tip
over.

1886
01:56:39,920 --> 01:56:45,040
Ultimately, some people were
like, I just want to go out

1887
01:56:45,040 --> 01:56:48,160
sweetly and softly in my bed and
that's great.

1888
01:56:48,600 --> 01:56:52,640
I, you know, I, I can see the
piece in that.

1889
01:56:52,920 --> 01:56:55,520
However, I think I would just
prefer to tip over.

1890
01:56:55,800 --> 01:56:58,240
And so the, the, the story's
never done.

1891
01:57:00,240 --> 01:57:02,760
The story's never finished.
Chapters are done.

1892
01:57:02,760 --> 01:57:05,680
Parts of it are done, but I
don't think we ever get

1893
01:57:05,680 --> 01:57:11,720
finished.
I think, I think you're never

1894
01:57:11,720 --> 01:57:15,640
done even in the eternities.
I, I think it continues to go on

1895
01:57:15,640 --> 01:57:17,960
forever learning and growing in
those sorts of things.

1896
01:57:18,280 --> 01:57:20,880
So the story's never done,
right.

1897
01:57:20,880 --> 01:57:23,720
The story is never finished,
right.

1898
01:57:24,040 --> 01:57:30,640
Chapters get finished, sections
get finished of that book, but

1899
01:57:32,360 --> 01:57:35,720
if you think you're ever done,
you're not done.

1900
01:57:37,320 --> 01:57:39,120
I love watching a lot of
eternity.

1901
01:57:40,000 --> 01:57:42,880
Yeah, thank you.
I, I was just going to add to

1902
01:57:42,880 --> 01:57:45,640
that and say I love watching a
lot of these near death

1903
01:57:45,640 --> 01:57:52,080
experience videos on YouTube,
you know, and we think, you

1904
01:57:52,080 --> 01:57:54,440
know, my life is done here on
earth.

1905
01:57:54,720 --> 01:57:57,240
But like you said, it goes on
for eternity.

1906
01:57:57,440 --> 01:58:01,880
The story is still going on.
One thing that I love and I

1907
01:58:02,040 --> 01:58:05,000
again, I think that that you're
so good about this.

1908
01:58:05,000 --> 01:58:10,920
I mean, it just inviting me on
your show that when people die

1909
01:58:11,120 --> 01:58:17,080
and they see Jesus, there's this
overwhelming sense of love, not

1910
01:58:17,080 --> 01:58:19,680
judgement, not oh, you're a
fundamentalist.

1911
01:58:19,680 --> 01:58:23,000
You go in that line.
You're, you know, a mainstream

1912
01:58:23,000 --> 01:58:24,520
member of the Church of Jesus
Christ.

1913
01:58:24,680 --> 01:58:27,520
You go in that room over there,
Catholics are down the hall.

1914
01:58:27,560 --> 01:58:31,000
You know, there's none of that.
Nobody ever says that.

1915
01:58:31,200 --> 01:58:35,160
It's just this feeling of love
and goodness and kindness.

1916
01:58:35,160 --> 01:58:40,920
And you know, I think when when
we all get there, we'll all just

1917
01:58:40,920 --> 01:58:48,200
go, Oh, it was also simple.
Just focus on the Savior and

1918
01:58:48,200 --> 01:58:53,320
you'll get there.
A. 100% You know, when we when

1919
01:58:53,320 --> 01:58:58,960
we start to talk like about
Zion, I think we all have this

1920
01:58:58,960 --> 01:59:01,320
idea in our head about what
Zion's going to look like.

1921
01:59:01,720 --> 01:59:05,520
But if you go and read the early
guys and what they had to say

1922
01:59:05,520 --> 01:59:09,640
about it, Joseph, Brigham, those
kind of guys, usually it's going

1923
01:59:09,640 --> 01:59:13,440
to paint a different picture
than what you think of for a lot

1924
01:59:13,440 --> 01:59:16,400
of people, they think, well,
Zion is just just for Mormons.

1925
01:59:16,960 --> 01:59:20,440
Well, if you read Joseph and
Brigham and what they had to say

1926
01:59:20,440 --> 01:59:23,880
on it, they both say we expect
to see Catholics there.

1927
01:59:23,880 --> 01:59:26,200
We expect to see Presbyterians
there.

1928
01:59:26,440 --> 01:59:29,600
We expect to see Episcopalians
there.

1929
01:59:30,000 --> 01:59:34,360
And, and it's going to run the
full gamut of, of representative

1930
01:59:34,640 --> 01:59:36,320
religion, I think for the most
part.

1931
01:59:36,800 --> 01:59:40,640
And so the older I get, the more
it becomes very apparent that I

1932
01:59:40,640 --> 01:59:43,280
don't know nearly as much as I
thought I did.

1933
01:59:44,960 --> 01:59:53,000
And this idea that, that there's
something that that you're, that

1934
01:59:53,000 --> 01:59:57,560
we can look at outwardly and
say, oh, that's, that's a good

1935
01:59:57,560 --> 01:59:59,920
person or that person will never
make it.

1936
02:00:00,440 --> 02:00:04,040
I think sometimes we can
woefully error in in those

1937
02:00:04,040 --> 02:00:07,720
decision makings.
And, and I can, I can use my own

1938
02:00:07,720 --> 02:00:12,080
experience as an example.
When my wife first first met me

1939
02:00:12,080 --> 02:00:15,160
before I was a Mormon, I had
hair down to my shoulders.

1940
02:00:15,160 --> 02:00:18,600
Both my ears were pierced.
I mean, I was rough.

1941
02:00:18,600 --> 02:00:20,600
I was, I was kind of hell on
wheels.

1942
02:00:21,880 --> 02:00:25,400
But what people couldn't see
through and, and this wasn't

1943
02:00:25,400 --> 02:00:28,400
their fault because of my
appearance, I understand that

1944
02:00:28,400 --> 02:00:31,640
there was a facade there and I
was using that kind of as a way

1945
02:00:31,640 --> 02:00:35,520
to shield myself.
They, they didn't see the young

1946
02:00:35,520 --> 02:00:40,200
man who was questioning
existence itself and the mystery

1947
02:00:40,520 --> 02:00:44,040
that surrounds why it is we have
consciousness and, and other

1948
02:00:44,040 --> 02:00:47,400
animals seem to have a lesser
form of it and, and trying to

1949
02:00:47,400 --> 02:00:51,880
figure out all those things.
And so I fully expected to, to,

1950
02:00:52,320 --> 02:00:55,360
I fully expect to get to the
other side and, and quite

1951
02:00:55,360 --> 02:00:59,680
frankly be surprised as to who's
there and who's not.

1952
02:01:01,000 --> 02:01:06,200
So I'm totally open to that and
actually kind of relish that,

1953
02:01:06,600 --> 02:01:09,080
quite frankly, because I enjoy
awkward humor.

1954
02:01:09,320 --> 02:01:13,640
And I can't imagine, you know, 2
mortal enemies having to meet up

1955
02:01:13,640 --> 02:01:17,080
in the same place going, how'd
you get in here?

1956
02:01:17,480 --> 02:01:19,960
And the savior being like, well,
you were both kind of right and

1957
02:01:19,960 --> 02:01:22,560
you were both kind of wrong.
And I think there's going to be

1958
02:01:22,560 --> 02:01:25,080
a lot of sorting out that's done
on the other side.

1959
02:01:25,640 --> 02:01:29,160
And it's going to be both to our
chagrin and our happy surprise

1960
02:01:29,160 --> 02:01:31,160
as well.
Very well said.

1961
02:01:31,440 --> 02:01:33,960
Anyway, Katrina, this has been
awesome.

1962
02:01:33,960 --> 02:01:37,920
I appreciate it.
Now, I tell everybody this and I

1963
02:01:37,920 --> 02:01:40,360
mean it.
Once you've been on the podcast,

1964
02:01:40,360 --> 02:01:42,280
you have a standing invitation
to come back.

1965
02:01:42,600 --> 02:01:44,440
So you just got to call me and
we'll get you.

1966
02:01:44,560 --> 02:01:47,840
We'll get you on.
So you do a new book or or Yeah,

1967
02:01:47,920 --> 02:01:50,400
yeah, you're doing some new
research that you think might be

1968
02:01:50,400 --> 02:01:52,560
interesting.
Hit me up and we'll get you back

1969
02:01:52,560 --> 02:01:56,200
on right away because I, I can
tell you got a lot of great

1970
02:01:56,200 --> 02:01:59,280
things to to say here.
Perfect.

1971
02:01:59,280 --> 02:02:00,600
Well, thank you.
I would love to.

1972
02:02:00,600 --> 02:02:04,040
It's so much fun talking to you
and we could talk for 5 or 18

1973
02:02:04,040 --> 02:02:06,840
hours because there's so much
fun stuff to talk about.

1974
02:02:07,440 --> 02:02:10,720
Let let's plug that book.
Let's let's plug those books one

1975
02:02:10,720 --> 02:02:14,840
more time here.
Where, where do people go to to

1976
02:02:14,960 --> 02:02:17,840
to find those books and and what
was the name of them again?

1977
02:02:18,400 --> 02:02:22,880
So this is perfect for Easter
via Dolorosa.

1978
02:02:22,880 --> 02:02:25,120
Let's see.
There we go Christ path to the

1979
02:02:25,120 --> 02:02:30,280
cross ice.
And and by the way, when they

1980
02:02:30,280 --> 02:02:34,320
first showed me the cover, it
was red, not orange.

1981
02:02:34,320 --> 02:02:39,320
And I was like, oh, that's very
realistic and accurate, but

1982
02:02:39,320 --> 02:02:43,120
might be a little bit much for
Mormon sensitivities, you know,

1983
02:02:43,560 --> 02:02:46,720
so they, they had to count it
down with the orange, which I

1984
02:02:46,720 --> 02:02:49,640
appreciated because I'm like,
that's just so harsh.

1985
02:02:50,120 --> 02:02:53,880
And the language of heaven.
Let's see, here we go.

1986
02:02:54,160 --> 02:02:57,680
So you again, you can find
almost all of my books in

1987
02:02:57,680 --> 02:03:02,520
bookstores, but certainly on
Amazon and on my website,

1988
02:03:02,520 --> 02:03:06,920
whichistrinaboyce.com.
And some of them are at Cedar

1989
02:03:06,920 --> 02:03:10,440
Fort Books and they often have
sales going on.

1990
02:03:10,440 --> 02:03:13,160
And you can follow me.
I'm on all the socials, you

1991
02:03:13,160 --> 02:03:17,480
know, on Facebook and Instagram
and TikTok and Twitter and you

1992
02:03:17,480 --> 02:03:20,320
know, all everywhere.
So I always have links when my

1993
02:03:20,320 --> 02:03:24,280
books are free, which is every
weekend.

1994
02:03:24,280 --> 02:03:27,680
I have one of my books that
Ioffer up on Amazon for free.

1995
02:03:28,000 --> 02:03:31,040
So if you follow me you can see
which ones are being offered for

1996
02:03:31,040 --> 02:03:32,760
free.
In fact, well, I don't know what

1997
02:03:32,760 --> 02:03:36,520
day this is going to.
OK, let me tell you what's going

1998
02:03:36,520 --> 02:03:42,280
to be on for free on Saturday.
It is one of the first little

1999
02:03:42,280 --> 02:03:45,400
books that I've ever written.
All of my books are non fiction,

2000
02:03:45,400 --> 02:03:48,960
but this one, I sat at the
kitchen table with my young

2001
02:03:48,960 --> 02:03:53,840
little boys and we were cutting
colored paper and making little

2002
02:03:53,840 --> 02:03:55,800
artwork.
And again, I told you art is not

2003
02:03:55,800 --> 02:03:57,760
my thing.
But I just started making a

2004
02:03:57,760 --> 02:04:01,120
bunch of hearts and I was in,
you know, like a mood that you

2005
02:04:01,120 --> 02:04:03,520
get in.
I like awkward, funny, weird

2006
02:04:03,760 --> 02:04:07,000
jokes and things.
And so I made this little book

2007
02:04:07,280 --> 02:04:10,800
and have they're all visual
puns.

2008
02:04:11,080 --> 02:04:15,160
They're different types of love,
like the perfect heart with an

2009
02:04:15,160 --> 02:04:18,320
arrow going through it.
That would be, you know, pure

2010
02:04:18,320 --> 02:04:23,280
love or true love or whatever.
And then I have, wow, my mind's

2011
02:04:23,280 --> 02:04:27,280
going blank.
But like puppy love would be

2012
02:04:27,280 --> 02:04:30,560
instead of the arrow, they're
puppy paw prints going through

2013
02:04:30,560 --> 02:04:36,960
the heart.
Or I have one that's it's a

2014
02:04:36,960 --> 02:04:40,760
heart and it's got little blood
drops coming off of that.

2015
02:04:40,760 --> 02:04:43,400
So that's the liberal, that's
the the bleeding heart, you

2016
02:04:43,400 --> 02:04:48,240
know, anyway, they're all just
visual funds on derivations of a

2017
02:04:48,240 --> 02:04:50,080
perfect heart.
Anyway, that one's going to be

2018
02:04:50,320 --> 02:04:54,640
for free on Amazon.
So it's called a gift of love.

2019
02:04:54,640 --> 02:04:58,440
I don't know if I sold it or
made it sound super weird, but

2020
02:04:58,440 --> 02:05:02,840
it's a it's kind of a fun little
gift you can give somebody, you

2021
02:05:02,840 --> 02:05:07,640
know, for anniversary or a
wedding or your birthday or any

2022
02:05:07,640 --> 02:05:09,040
occasion where you love
somebody.

2023
02:05:09,040 --> 02:05:10,760
It's kind of a cute little gift
book.

2024
02:05:13,040 --> 02:05:17,160
Perfect.
All right, Well, you hang out

2025
02:05:17,160 --> 02:05:18,840
for just 5 minutes.
All right.

2026
02:05:19,000 --> 02:05:19,880
Bye everybody.