Episode #214: Hidden Insights From The Nativity Story W/Drew Briney

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How's it going, Drew?
Mostly.

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Fabulous.
That's good.

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You know, it's funny, there's
been times I've been tempted to,

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like, record the stuff that I
don't record and just kind of

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like, put it behind, you know,
something so that when I die,

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people can actually hear what
it's like at the beginning of

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those podcasts.
Because we'll talk like when

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you're talking behind doors type
thing.

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Yeah, 10 or 15 minutes and
stuff.

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But then I was like, well, if I
do that, there's no guarantee

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that they all the people I talk
to will be dead by the time I'm

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dead too.
So probably better not do that

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wait for a generation or 4.
So, but man, I am excited for

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this conversation.
It's on the nativity and Drew

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sometimes I think because
because of the over

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commercialization of the of the
holiday, we have such a skewed

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version of what the nativity
scene probably looked like,

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right?
What the nativity was.

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It's not what we're we're used
to seeing.

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And you know, and honestly, I'm
not sure this is one of those

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things that anybody ever started
out with it being nefarious,

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right?
I just think they were looking

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at trying to condense a whole
story into one scene and it kind

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of caught fire.
Yeah, yeah.

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And I think in in the in the
process, people really like

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tradition and we don't really
care too much about truth in

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comparison.
We just like we, we like to do

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things the way we grew up and
and have the comfort of, of of

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the familiar.
The problem with that.

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And there's a great quote.
Oh, here I found it.

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It's a quote by Kenneth Bailey,
who's a biblical scholar who

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grew up as a as an Arab in
Palestine, I believe, and got

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kind of annoyed about nativity
traditions, especially the

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Western tradition.
And he, he made this

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observation.
He said, the more familiar we

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are with the biblical story, the
more difficult it is to view it

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outside the way it has always
been understood.

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The birth of Jesus is such a
story.

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So I, I think you're exactly
right.

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We, we, we were so caught up in,
in buying the presents.

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We're so caught up in, in
putting up a tree and lights and

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whatever else people do that we,
we completely start ignoring

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what really happened.
We, we pull out last minute, you

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know, Luke 2, dress up our kids
as sheep and donkeys, put a put

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a doll in a a little crash and
call that the nativity.

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And, you know, if you're really
exuberant, then you go to Temple

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Square or you go to some place
that's got nativity and you go

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smell the donkey and the sheep
and the oxen.

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You know, watch the watch the
portrayal of what never happened

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and consider that the Christmas
story that you know is is truly

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the most important one and
figure you've done a a good job

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in in instilling good tradition.
But even still, almost none of

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that is accurate.
I mean, the stuff we see

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portrayed, I don't, I don't
know, being somewhat critical of

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it, I've not seen a decent
nativity portrayal in the last

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1520 years at least.
Yeah, it, it, it's always a fine

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line with these things, right,
'cause on one hand, I, I'm a guy

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who thinks that, that good
traditions are something that

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can absolutely preserve faith,
right?

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Yes.
On the other hand, if if you're

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not careful with those
traditions, they somehow creep

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in and become doctrine to some
to people.

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And they get twisted.
And they get twisted exactly.

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They never seen it last till
they were started.

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No, no.
And, and, you know, I look, I

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could beat up a lot over my
stance on the holidays, right?

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I think they're a good thing.
And people say, well, they have

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Pagan roots.
And I'm like, well, yes.

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But so did the gold that was
tossed at the Israelites as they

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left in Egypt.
And they used it to adorn the

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Tabernacle.
And they also used it to build a

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golden calf.
So it really is one of those

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things where I feel like it's up
to you how you want to use these

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things, but I think first it
becomes super important that you

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have a really good idea of what,
of what those things really are.

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And I, I hope that's what we can
bring out here today with the

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nativity is, is sort out what's
been tradition because it's been

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in the Macy's, Macy's storefront
for, you know, 100 plus years.

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And and what actually is is the
text telling us.

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Yeah, yeah.
I've, I've been really

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surprised.
And, and also I, I might say add

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that I've been really
disappointed.

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Even really, really good
translations have had so much

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pressure from people because of
our traditions that they still

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don't translate some of the
stuff properly.

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And they know it, but they just
like our funds dry up and we get

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nothing.
So we'll just, you know, put

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those two words back there and
everybody's happy.

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Right.
So it's, it's, it's amazing how

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emotional we really get over
these stories.

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But for me, you know, I, I think
I got, I get started on this

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road with from Kenneth Bailey,
who says, you know, if you have

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a correct understanding of the
nativity, it's actually more

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beautiful than, than what we
imagined before.

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And, and further, it's nice just
knowing we've got good

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information, right, instead of
bad information.

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And so I've, I've kind of delved
into it.

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I, I looked this morning and
last night to kind of review.

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I've, I've been planning on
writing a book on the nativity

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for, gosh, probably 20 years.
And every year I'm like, Oh

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yeah, I got to get it done.
And I get a little bit done.

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I don't want to beat the
deadlines too, too stressful.

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So I wait for the next year
instead of just finishing like

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after Christmas or something and
then just not marketing it till

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the next Christmas.
But in any rate, as I was doing,

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I've got over 70 pages typed
pages with almost none of my

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commentary, just commentary from
ancient Near Eastern biblical

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commentaries and so forth.
And there's just a massive

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amount of information that we
have about the nativity that a

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lot of it's more or less
inconsequential, but interesting

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at least to to give us a better
perspective and a better

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understanding of what we're
really.

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Looking at Sure, absolutely.
Let's dig.

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Let's dig in.
OK, so excuse me, sorry, I think

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I probably have way too much
information.

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So we might want to kind of skip
around a little bit or do stuff

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from a maybe a shortened
abridged version.

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If I'm abridging too much just
kind of jump in and and squeeze

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me.
I have done 4 podcasts of this

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on my own channel and and delved
in some of the more detail, but

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even there, after four hours of
podcasting on it, there's still

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probably another three hours
that I haven't covered.

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Perfect.
I'll tell you what, I trust you.

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You know not, you know, you know
what you're doing here, You know

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what the highlights are.
We'll run with that.

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And if I got questions, as
always, we'll just run.

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I'll ask them and we'll we'll go
down those tangents.

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OK, so let me, let me just kind
of establish a bit of a

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background then I'll, I'll start
with Matthew's genealogy because

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everybody's super interested in
the genealogies, but I'm going

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to hit that is a background of
is it, is it it's I believe the

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genealogy is establishing A
context for the scandal, as it

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were, of what happens with, with
Mary and Joseph.

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And I call it that because that
was the that's going to be the

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cultural perspective.
And, and I think one of the most

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interesting neglected pieces of
the nativity is Joseph's part in

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it.
He really does some amazing

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things that we as Westerners
don't see, don't understand and

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really probably can't quite
fathom.

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Maybe some of some converts who
have lost all their friends and

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their job and all that sort of
stuff and had to start from

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scratch in a middle-aged man
type thing.

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Maybe we've got some
comprehension of what he went

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through, but I still don't think
we fully comprehend what

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happened to him.
So I'd like to hit the, the the

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genealogy for that reason, even
though it's the most

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controversial stuff that we'll
probably talk about tonight.

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So if you're listening and
you've never heard us talk

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before and, and, and you're kind
of stressed about the topic,

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don't worry, it won't last too
long and try not to get too

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deep.
Send all the hate mail to me.

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Leave Drew alone.
He's got work to do.

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Don't address and leave it to
me, Just give it to Dave.

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Just give it to me.
Let me let me eat that.

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He'll Drew's got work to do.
I'll take the slings and arrows.

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OK, so first of all, excuse me,
We, we, we know that Matthew is

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writing to the Jews.
That's a standard biblical

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perspective that every home
should have.

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And sadly, a lot of people
really don't know.

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If you don't know Matthew's
writing to the Hebrew audience,

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Luke's writing to the Gentile
audience, and and you don't

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understand that, you're really
missing out because Matthew does

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a lot of things that we wouldn't
expect as Western listeners.

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For instance, he'll repeat stuff
in passages of three or five or

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seven or sometimes even 9, and
he's expecting you to count.

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If you see a word repeated
multiple times, he's expecting

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you get out your pencil and go
tick, tick, tick, tick.

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OK, that showed up 7 times.
That's symbolic of a complete

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cycle of time.
And now I'm supposed to

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interpret that passage from that
perspective and read it again.

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That's what he's expecting you
to do.

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But, you know, nobody taught us
that at church.

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I don't, I don't care if you're
part of the LDS church or the

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Baptist Church or fundamentalist
Church.

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Nobody teaches us to read that
way.

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But that's how they read.
And if we don't do that, we miss

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stuff.
So, you know, in the at the end

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of the genealogy, he says, so
all the generations from Abraham

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to David were 14 and from David
to the deportation of Babylon

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was 14 and for deportation of
Babylon to Messiah was 14.

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He's trying to cue us in.
I'm doing something significant

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here.
There are three parts to the

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story of this genealogy and it's
divided into 14, which is, you

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know, has some symbolic
significance perhaps.

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But he's trying to say, I've
deliberately looked at this

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genealogy.
I've done stuff with it and it

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wasn't so you can say, Oh my
gosh, not again.

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So, so boring.
So and so begot so and so begot

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so and so, So what?
Right.

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I really don't care about your
genealogy, but he's trying to

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say I've taken really special
care of this genealogy.

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And, and it's not really three
sets of 14.

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He repeats David and he repeats
the the first king of the, the

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from the deportation of Babylon.
So really instead of 3 * 414

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being 42, it's there's 40 people
that are are listed.

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So anyway, I'm just saying he
stretches, he'll stretch a

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little bit to explain what he's
doing too, because that's

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symbolic to him.
The number 3 is symbolic of the

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Godhead.
He's talking about the Messiah.

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He's establishing it by saying
this is a member of the Godhead.

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So get that in your head.
This is important, but he does a

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bunch of other things too.
The number shoot, is it 14?

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I always forget this.
Dang.

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And I probably don't have good
in my notes.

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The shoot.
I should know this.

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I've just reviewed it and now
it's it's lost in my head.

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But the gematria of David, The
the name David in Hebrew terms,

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they.
Yeah, that's what I thought.

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OK.
They break down the letters,

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assign the numbers, and then
with those numbers they add them

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up.
And that's a significant thing.

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David, when added up, is 14.
So he's also trying to focus and

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say this is all about King David
and it's all about that lineage.

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So the purpose, of course, is to
say this is Joseph's royal

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genealogy.
It's his legal genealogy and it

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shows the kingship or the the
royal stature of this family.

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And he emphasizes that later.
And immediately when the Angel

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comes to visit Joseph, he
doesn't say, hey, Joe, how's it

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going?
He says Joseph, son of David.

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That is the only time that
Matthew ever uses that term not

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to refer to the Messiah.
That was a messianic title.

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And the Angel gives it to Joseph
right away.

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00:14:28,520 --> 00:14:32,040
So he's he's establishing that
background and why he's going to

224
00:14:32,040 --> 00:14:35,640
Bethlehem with this genealogy.
But there's something more

225
00:14:35,640 --> 00:14:37,880
scandalous going on here.
And that's what I want to kind

226
00:14:37,880 --> 00:14:42,720
of focus on for a few minutes
and hopefully only offend 13% of

227
00:14:42,720 --> 00:14:46,520
your audience.
Perfect.

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00:14:46,520 --> 00:14:47,520
So.
That's a good day.

229
00:14:48,080 --> 00:14:53,520
Yeah, I think, and, and this is
me speculating, I, I think

230
00:14:53,520 --> 00:14:56,920
Matthew did this on purpose and
that's why I'm drawing attention

231
00:14:56,920 --> 00:14:59,720
to it.
And, and lots of scholars have

232
00:14:59,720 --> 00:15:04,120
pointed out certain observations
about the women he includes in

233
00:15:04,120 --> 00:15:08,160
the genealogy, but I've never
heard anybody commentate on what

234
00:15:08,160 --> 00:15:11,040
we're going to talk about.
So here's the quick background.

235
00:15:11,520 --> 00:15:15,160
First of all, genealogies were a
dime a dozen.

236
00:15:15,160 --> 00:15:18,600
You could go to different
synagogues and get different

237
00:15:18,600 --> 00:15:23,000
genealogies because they didn't
consider it important.

238
00:15:23,000 --> 00:15:30,400
Like if if we go to gosh, what's
the church's their database,

239
00:15:31,240 --> 00:15:32,760
family treat database, whatever
it is.

240
00:15:32,960 --> 00:15:35,600
FamilySearch.
Yeah, FamilySearch, you're going

241
00:15:35,600 --> 00:15:39,080
to get every single person,
father, mother, children,

242
00:15:39,160 --> 00:15:41,160
father, mother, children,
father, mother, children.

243
00:15:41,160 --> 00:15:44,480
Everything they could possibly
fill in is filled in from top to

244
00:15:44,480 --> 00:15:46,880
bottom.
The Jews genealogies weren't

245
00:15:46,880 --> 00:15:50,240
like that.
You know, we get some some

246
00:15:50,240 --> 00:15:52,240
argument about endless
genealogies.

247
00:15:52,440 --> 00:15:55,680
That's not why.
It's because they skipped people

248
00:15:55,680 --> 00:15:57,640
and they had different types of
things that they were

249
00:15:57,640 --> 00:15:59,840
emphasizing.
And you know, they have

250
00:15:59,840 --> 00:16:02,960
different lines too, but they
would develop their genealogies

251
00:16:02,960 --> 00:16:06,680
to prove a point or to emphasize
something.

252
00:16:07,640 --> 00:16:12,600
So, But one of the things was
definitely certain is that a

253
00:16:12,600 --> 00:16:17,280
genealogy pretty much never
included women, ever.

254
00:16:18,640 --> 00:16:22,160
So Matthew includes 4.
He expects us to count that.

255
00:16:22,240 --> 00:16:26,120
Why 4?
Why are there 4 women in the

256
00:16:26,120 --> 00:16:28,720
Gospel of Matthew?
Well, first of all, all of them

257
00:16:29,000 --> 00:16:37,240
are believed to be Gentiles.
And so Matthew is very careful

258
00:16:37,240 --> 00:16:41,200
all throughout his gospel to
hint that the Gospel will

259
00:16:41,200 --> 00:16:44,120
eventually be given to all of
the Gentiles.

260
00:16:44,640 --> 00:16:49,040
So it's the four corners of the
earth represents the entire

261
00:16:49,040 --> 00:16:51,920
world.
So having four women who are all

262
00:16:51,920 --> 00:16:56,080
Gentiles is foreshadowing the
gospel is going to go to all the

263
00:16:56,080 --> 00:16:59,640
world.
So that's an interesting detail

264
00:16:59,640 --> 00:17:03,400
that a lot of older commentators
make, but isn't emphasized as

265
00:17:03,400 --> 00:17:06,240
much today because we kind of
take it for granted.

266
00:17:06,520 --> 00:17:11,200
That was a big deal back then.
But but then there's a second

267
00:17:11,200 --> 00:17:16,599
layer of these four women that a
lot of commentators mention, but

268
00:17:16,599 --> 00:17:21,960
kind of wrap it up in in bail.
And that is each one of these

269
00:17:21,960 --> 00:17:28,640
women has at least this shadow
implication accusation or some

270
00:17:28,640 --> 00:17:33,880
sort of story behind her that
includes sexual scandal.

271
00:17:35,760 --> 00:17:37,600
And that I think is super
interesting.

272
00:17:37,600 --> 00:17:39,000
And I think he did that on
purpose.

273
00:17:39,720 --> 00:17:43,320
So let's go 1 by 1.
And I'm not going to do a long

274
00:17:43,320 --> 00:17:46,680
version of this because people
can go read their own scriptures

275
00:17:46,680 --> 00:17:47,960
and find commentary and so
forth.

276
00:17:48,320 --> 00:17:52,080
And I don't want to belabor the
point and focus on, on this too

277
00:17:52,080 --> 00:17:56,360
much, but it really sets up and
establishes a fabulous context

278
00:17:56,800 --> 00:18:00,160
for what's going to get happened
with Joseph, which I do want to

279
00:18:00,160 --> 00:18:03,080
focus on.
So first of all, we have

280
00:18:03,080 --> 00:18:07,280
tomorrow.
So tomorrow's kind of an easy

281
00:18:07,760 --> 00:18:09,640
person to see.
And, and by the way, all of

282
00:18:09,640 --> 00:18:12,960
these women were considered by
most Jews is to be righteous

283
00:18:12,960 --> 00:18:17,000
women, despite their sexual
scandal, which is an important

284
00:18:17,000 --> 00:18:18,520
detail.
Tamara.

285
00:18:18,680 --> 00:18:22,440
Gentiles, right?
Yeah, Tamara gets married to 1

286
00:18:22,440 --> 00:18:25,680
of Judah's sons and God smites
him and kills him.

287
00:18:26,600 --> 00:18:28,960
So not the best situation for
tomorrow.

288
00:18:28,960 --> 00:18:31,840
So she goes to Judah and says
hey, God smote him, killed him,

289
00:18:31,840 --> 00:18:36,120
I need another husband.
I'm supposed to under Jewish law

290
00:18:36,480 --> 00:18:40,040
called Leverett marriage, which
there's a lot of debate over

291
00:18:40,040 --> 00:18:43,000
what that means and what the
parameters are and so forth.

292
00:18:43,560 --> 00:18:46,360
But under Jewish law, if your
husband died, you were entitled

293
00:18:46,360 --> 00:18:50,320
to marry the next in line of the
sons, usually the the young next

294
00:18:50,320 --> 00:18:54,720
younger, because you know,
otherwise you'd be constantly,

295
00:18:56,320 --> 00:18:58,560
you'd be running into the
problem that the the sons are

296
00:18:58,560 --> 00:19:01,240
all dead.
So they usually would go to the

297
00:19:01,240 --> 00:19:04,000
next younger son, but not
always.

298
00:19:04,000 --> 00:19:05,360
It could be anybody in the
family.

299
00:19:05,360 --> 00:19:07,520
So she goes to Judah and says,
Hey, I need another husband.

300
00:19:07,520 --> 00:19:10,520
He says, all right, So he gives
her another husband and that's

301
00:19:10,520 --> 00:19:14,320
the husband that famously is
smitten by God as well for

302
00:19:14,320 --> 00:19:18,480
spilling his seed.
The what's happening here is if

303
00:19:18,480 --> 00:19:24,080
she gets pregnant, has a son,
that son inherits all of that

304
00:19:24,080 --> 00:19:28,760
new husband's land and title and
all that sort of stuff because

305
00:19:28,760 --> 00:19:34,760
he doesn't have older sons.
The first born gets the land and

306
00:19:34,760 --> 00:19:38,240
all the all the ownership of
everything and is supposed to

307
00:19:38,240 --> 00:19:41,760
become basically the new father
of the family and takes care of

308
00:19:41,760 --> 00:19:44,440
everybody.
But this husband doesn't have

309
00:19:44,440 --> 00:19:47,840
that and he doesn't want her to
have that so she doesn't get

310
00:19:47,840 --> 00:19:49,440
pregnant.
God smites in dead for it.

311
00:19:49,960 --> 00:19:53,320
So strike two.
Both of these are Judah's son.

312
00:19:53,320 --> 00:19:57,840
So she goes to Judah and says I
need another husband and I'm

313
00:19:57,840 --> 00:20:00,800
entitled under law to have 1/3 a
new husband.

314
00:20:00,800 --> 00:20:04,120
I still don't have children and
he says I agreed absolutely.

315
00:20:04,880 --> 00:20:07,720
But you have to wait till he's
of age because he's a child.

316
00:20:08,600 --> 00:20:10,440
He's, you know, he's not old
enough.

317
00:20:10,840 --> 00:20:13,360
So she says, all right, but
Judah never does it.

318
00:20:14,840 --> 00:20:18,080
So Judah ends up becoming a
widower.

319
00:20:18,080 --> 00:20:21,720
His wife dies.
And so she goes.

320
00:20:21,720 --> 00:20:23,400
She knows where he's headed to
mourn.

321
00:20:23,800 --> 00:20:26,520
So she goes, dresses as a
prostitute, puts a veil over her

322
00:20:26,520 --> 00:20:31,000
face and entices him.
And he hires her and he agrees

323
00:20:31,000 --> 00:20:35,000
to pay her a goat for her
services and she but he doesn't

324
00:20:35,000 --> 00:20:37,520
have it.
So he gives her his King's seal,

325
00:20:37,880 --> 00:20:40,200
a staff and something else I
don't remember to say.

326
00:20:40,200 --> 00:20:41,480
I'll make good on it and pay
you.

327
00:20:41,960 --> 00:20:46,120
So she's like, great.
So a couple months later, Tamar

328
00:20:46,120 --> 00:20:49,520
is found out to be pregnant.
And King Judah says she is going

329
00:20:49,520 --> 00:20:52,880
to be killed because she's not,
you know, she's not supposed to

330
00:20:52,880 --> 00:20:56,840
be having any relations because
her husband's dead.

331
00:20:57,840 --> 00:21:00,920
So he was going to have her, I
believe, burned at stake for it.

332
00:21:02,280 --> 00:21:05,920
But she says she sends the
Insignia and the staff and

333
00:21:05,920 --> 00:21:09,360
whatever the other the third
thing was and says, this is the

334
00:21:09,360 --> 00:21:11,280
father.
These these things belong to the

335
00:21:11,280 --> 00:21:14,040
father and he recognizes the
situation.

336
00:21:14,040 --> 00:21:16,920
So he's like, oh, just kidding.
We're not going to kill her and

337
00:21:16,960 --> 00:21:18,880
leave her alone.
And that's it.

338
00:21:19,240 --> 00:21:24,120
Well, that is pretty scandalous
at the end of the day, because

339
00:21:24,280 --> 00:21:28,960
they're not married.
She's entitled to have a husband

340
00:21:28,960 --> 00:21:32,680
and to be married, and he's got
the duty to do it, but he

341
00:21:32,680 --> 00:21:37,000
doesn't do it.
And she's not ever listed in the

342
00:21:37,000 --> 00:21:38,760
Scriptures as being a bad girl
for that.

343
00:21:40,480 --> 00:21:45,400
Everybody looks at it, says
that's kind of, you know, we

344
00:21:45,400 --> 00:21:48,040
would call that adultery or we
would call it something bad

345
00:21:48,040 --> 00:21:51,040
today, and we would say you've
lost your exaltation and you

346
00:21:51,040 --> 00:21:54,840
know, you're bad or whatever.
But she is, you know, the first

347
00:21:54,840 --> 00:21:57,760
of the four women who is an
ancestor of Jesus.

348
00:21:59,160 --> 00:22:01,720
So then we go to #2 who is
Rahab?

349
00:22:02,280 --> 00:22:06,280
So Tamara pretends to be a
prostitute, but Rahab is a

350
00:22:06,280 --> 00:22:09,360
prostitute.
She is the one that's in

351
00:22:09,360 --> 00:22:11,400
Jericho.
And let's, let's in the spies

352
00:22:11,400 --> 00:22:14,560
and says, don't you know, if
you'll spare me, I'll let you do

353
00:22:14,560 --> 00:22:16,440
your spy stuff and just let me
be part of your people.

354
00:22:16,440 --> 00:22:18,760
And that's what happens.
And she's just considered to be

355
00:22:19,160 --> 00:22:23,360
a righteous proselyte.
But nonetheless, she's got a

356
00:22:23,360 --> 00:22:27,960
sordid background.
So then we come to #3 which is

357
00:22:27,960 --> 00:22:31,680
normally ignored by a lot of
people and a lot of

358
00:22:31,680 --> 00:22:35,840
commentators.
However, she's got some, some

359
00:22:36,480 --> 00:22:38,600
scandal behind her name as well.
And that's Ruth.

360
00:22:39,840 --> 00:22:44,800
So there is.
And I'm not, I'm not saying this

361
00:22:44,800 --> 00:22:49,200
is every scholar by any means.
This is a very controversial

362
00:22:49,280 --> 00:22:52,040
take on things, but it's been
something that's been really

363
00:22:52,040 --> 00:22:54,560
heavily written about in recent
years.

364
00:22:54,560 --> 00:22:56,440
In fact, they're they even made
a movie about it.

365
00:22:58,400 --> 00:23:04,160
But Ruth when she's talking with
Naomi at one point kisses Naomi

366
00:23:05,200 --> 00:23:09,200
and everybody says, oh, well,
you know, the the mid easterners

367
00:23:09,200 --> 00:23:11,680
do that all the time, kiss on
the cheek and and came back on

368
00:23:11,680 --> 00:23:13,360
my mission.
They did what's called a quakish

369
00:23:13,360 --> 00:23:15,400
kind of touched cheeks and make
a kiss sound, but you don't

370
00:23:15,400 --> 00:23:17,720
really kiss.
You know, that's kind of normal

371
00:23:17,720 --> 00:23:20,400
for Arab countries.
Nobody really thinks much about

372
00:23:20,400 --> 00:23:24,320
it.
But the the following sentences

373
00:23:24,320 --> 00:23:30,440
one of them says and Ruth clave
to Naomi and that word, if I

374
00:23:30,440 --> 00:23:34,680
recall right is Bedok or Bedok.
And the word is the same one

375
00:23:34,680 --> 00:23:37,640
used in Genesis where it says
therefore shall man leave his

376
00:23:37,640 --> 00:23:40,160
mother and father and cleave
unto his wife.

377
00:23:40,160 --> 00:23:44,640
And then else the word is also
used in other places in the Old

378
00:23:44,640 --> 00:23:46,720
Testament to refer to a sexual
union.

379
00:23:47,760 --> 00:23:53,080
So the word however, is also
used to to use to refer to the

380
00:23:53,080 --> 00:23:56,560
word tongue tied right and some
things that are completely non

381
00:23:56,560 --> 00:23:58,760
sexual.
So there's this question mark.

382
00:23:59,320 --> 00:24:05,920
Is this a sexual word or not?
Well, in Jerusalem rabbinic

383
00:24:06,080 --> 00:24:12,160
tradition, being bisexual or
being a lesbian woman was a bad

384
00:24:12,160 --> 00:24:14,200
sin.
It was a wicked thing and it was

385
00:24:14,200 --> 00:24:17,240
a sordid problem, and that made
you an evil person.

386
00:24:18,640 --> 00:24:21,400
Galilean rabbis at the time of
Christ, however, didn't think it

387
00:24:21,400 --> 00:24:23,080
was a big deal.
They didn't care.

388
00:24:23,240 --> 00:24:27,800
So this doesn't affect
inheritance laws.

389
00:24:27,800 --> 00:24:30,880
It doesn't affect other things.
She can't get pregnant.

390
00:24:31,480 --> 00:24:33,120
No harm, no foul.
We don't care.

391
00:24:34,200 --> 00:24:37,600
So even among the Jews, it was
really controversial whether

392
00:24:37,600 --> 00:24:39,800
this was OK or not.
But then there's also the

393
00:24:39,800 --> 00:24:42,880
controversy is, is that what the
text meant or not?

394
00:24:43,920 --> 00:24:47,120
But nevertheless, the shadow of
controversy is there.

395
00:24:47,520 --> 00:24:52,120
The question is there, and the
uncertainty is there.

396
00:24:52,160 --> 00:24:55,400
And it's of sexual nature like
the other three, the other the

397
00:24:55,400 --> 00:24:57,760
other three women.
So that's Ruth.

398
00:24:57,760 --> 00:25:02,400
So we've got pretend prostitute,
prostitute, possibly bisexual.

399
00:25:03,400 --> 00:25:05,560
And then of course, she lays at
the feet of Boaz.

400
00:25:05,680 --> 00:25:09,200
And when they're not in the
marriage ceremony, basically

401
00:25:09,200 --> 00:25:14,720
that was a a tradition lying at
the feet of a man was saying,

402
00:25:14,720 --> 00:25:19,040
let's consummate.
And and you know, in some

403
00:25:19,040 --> 00:25:22,520
circles that was understood to
be the marriage ceremony for

404
00:25:22,520 --> 00:25:24,440
those who didn't want the pomp
and circumstance.

405
00:25:24,880 --> 00:25:28,000
That's also controversial and
I'm not trying to say any of

406
00:25:28,000 --> 00:25:31,120
these things are right or any of
these things are wrong, only

407
00:25:31,360 --> 00:25:35,040
that there's a shadow of
controversy and of scandal with

408
00:25:35,040 --> 00:25:38,320
each of these women.
Now we go to Bathsheba.

409
00:25:38,320 --> 00:25:42,040
She's last and Matthew doesn't
even name her and most people

410
00:25:42,040 --> 00:25:44,680
just kind of glance gloss over
that just says, you know, the

411
00:25:44,760 --> 00:25:48,280
the wife of King David who David
to take it from Uriah, right,

412
00:25:49,520 --> 00:25:52,840
Mother Solomon.
And they just kind of ignore

413
00:25:54,720 --> 00:25:57,600
that her name isn't listed.
But a lot of commentators look

414
00:25:57,600 --> 00:26:01,960
and say Matthew seems to look
upon her with disdain.

415
00:26:01,960 --> 00:26:06,400
He won't even name her And most
people look at Bathsheba and

416
00:26:06,400 --> 00:26:10,360
say, well, it's not her fault.
You know, she's not the one sent

417
00:26:10,360 --> 00:26:12,560
her husband to the forefront and
all this sort of stuff.

418
00:26:14,200 --> 00:26:17,240
However, there is a school of
thought, a number of people,

419
00:26:17,240 --> 00:26:22,520
Jews and Christians included,
who believe that she was

420
00:26:22,520 --> 00:26:25,520
deliberately seducing David.
Otherwise she wouldn't have been

421
00:26:25,520 --> 00:26:27,200
on the rooftop.
And had she been on the rooftop,

422
00:26:27,200 --> 00:26:30,080
she would have at least had a
divider, one of those paper

423
00:26:30,080 --> 00:26:33,720
dividers or something that you
see to put up to be more modest

424
00:26:33,720 --> 00:26:36,920
so that she wouldn't be, you
know, in the sight of the king,

425
00:26:36,920 --> 00:26:40,440
which obviously she could tell
by her where she was sitting,

426
00:26:40,680 --> 00:26:45,760
who can see.
And and so therefore she must

427
00:26:45,760 --> 00:26:51,040
have been seducing him and
apparently by speculation and

428
00:26:51,040 --> 00:26:53,960
assumption, Matthews simple
certainly thought something like

429
00:26:53,960 --> 00:26:55,720
that.
He didn't even want to say her

430
00:26:55,720 --> 00:26:59,720
name, which so that's that's a
that's a really interesting

431
00:26:59,720 --> 00:27:02,480
thing.
So now we have 4 women all

432
00:27:02,480 --> 00:27:08,680
associated with as as ancestors
of Jesus who are associated with

433
00:27:08,680 --> 00:27:12,320
sexual scandal.
Now most Christian commentators

434
00:27:14,200 --> 00:27:17,360
just kind of stop right there
and instead of saying it like I

435
00:27:17,360 --> 00:27:20,280
just did, they say, well,
they've all got sorted past or

436
00:27:20,280 --> 00:27:23,720
tawdry past sort.
You know, they've they've

437
00:27:23,720 --> 00:27:26,400
they've each been encased in sin
and somehow or other.

438
00:27:27,440 --> 00:27:30,000
And the point of Jesus being
brought in this bloodline is to

439
00:27:30,000 --> 00:27:32,800
purify and sanctify the
bloodline and, and forgive them.

440
00:27:32,800 --> 00:27:34,040
And you know, something like
that.

441
00:27:34,520 --> 00:27:38,400
That's kind of Matthew's point.
I don't think so that that

442
00:27:38,720 --> 00:27:41,160
that's part of it.
I think to be more accurate.

443
00:27:41,600 --> 00:27:45,080
I don't think that's it, though,
because the first thing that we

444
00:27:45,080 --> 00:27:50,360
read about when we go further
into the the genealogy was that

445
00:27:50,360 --> 00:27:53,480
Mary is caught up in the middle
of a sexual scandal.

446
00:27:53,800 --> 00:27:55,480
That's how it's going to be
perceived by the Jews.

447
00:27:56,320 --> 00:28:00,760
So I think he's preparing the
reader to look at her with a

448
00:28:00,760 --> 00:28:06,800
more empathetic, sympathetic
perspective because he's saying,

449
00:28:06,800 --> 00:28:10,400
look, we've got these four women
in our heritage that we all

450
00:28:10,400 --> 00:28:14,720
agree are righteous women and
founding matrix of our society.

451
00:28:15,120 --> 00:28:19,280
They were all engaged in some
sort of sexual scandal to give

452
00:28:19,280 --> 00:28:23,000
her the benefit of the doubt.
And, you know, if you don't

453
00:28:23,000 --> 00:28:26,800
believe her story, look at her
charitably and at least don't

454
00:28:26,800 --> 00:28:28,160
badmouth her for it or
something.

455
00:28:28,840 --> 00:28:30,360
Yeah.
He's basically saying there's a

456
00:28:30,360 --> 00:28:34,800
whole bunch of people in this
line that have clouds of

457
00:28:34,800 --> 00:28:38,680
dispersion over them.
So before you go judging Jesus's

458
00:28:38,680 --> 00:28:43,160
mother, understand what else has
been done here.

459
00:28:43,160 --> 00:28:44,760
Kind of softening the ground a
little.

460
00:28:44,760 --> 00:28:47,440
Bit yeah, open your minds, think
twice before you start judging

461
00:28:47,440 --> 00:28:49,240
her.
And that's assuming you don't

462
00:28:49,240 --> 00:28:53,120
believe her, you know, but
Joseph didn't believe her and

463
00:28:53,120 --> 00:28:54,560
that's the first part of his
story.

464
00:28:55,200 --> 00:28:57,880
So he's he's not going to be the
only one.

465
00:28:58,720 --> 00:29:03,200
So before we jump into that, I,
I want to back step a little bit

466
00:29:03,400 --> 00:29:07,520
and, and talk about something
that I'm going to refer to again

467
00:29:07,520 --> 00:29:09,440
later.
But it shows up in this

468
00:29:09,440 --> 00:29:12,040
genealogy and it shows up in
verse 16.

469
00:29:12,040 --> 00:29:15,000
And it's so exciting.
You'll, you'll immediately see

470
00:29:15,000 --> 00:29:16,960
what it is and say, oh, that's
what you're thinking.

471
00:29:17,920 --> 00:29:21,240
I'm being facetious.
Jacob, the father of Joseph, the

472
00:29:21,440 --> 00:29:25,040
husband of Mary, of whom was
born Jesus and Joseph as, as the

473
00:29:25,040 --> 00:29:27,040
prophets have written, who is
called Messiah.

474
00:29:27,680 --> 00:29:29,280
So that's it.
So what's there?

475
00:29:31,240 --> 00:29:36,720
Matthew uses the divine passive
a lot, and the divine passive is

476
00:29:36,720 --> 00:29:41,440
a term used by scholars mostly
and, and by Jews and rabbis and

477
00:29:41,440 --> 00:29:44,720
so forth to refer to the fact
that we're referring to God

478
00:29:44,720 --> 00:29:48,720
without saying his name.
We're all familiar with they

479
00:29:48,720 --> 00:29:51,600
don't want to say Elohim, and so
they start saying Jehovah, and

480
00:29:51,600 --> 00:29:54,680
then they want to say Jehovah.
So they come Adenai, you know,

481
00:29:54,680 --> 00:29:57,440
there's this constant recycling
of we've got to come something

482
00:29:57,440 --> 00:30:00,000
else.
And Jesus in the Gospel of

483
00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:04,600
Matthew frequently says he who
is in the heavens, he who hears

484
00:30:04,600 --> 00:30:08,680
all things, you know, he of whom
we we don't speak his name or

485
00:30:08,680 --> 00:30:10,120
something, you know, pre
Voldemort.

486
00:30:10,760 --> 00:30:14,120
So he's constantly speaking in
this divine passive.

487
00:30:14,120 --> 00:30:15,960
So he doesn't say the name of
God.

488
00:30:16,680 --> 00:30:19,000
Now I don't think that's because
Jesus thinks it's wrong.

489
00:30:19,360 --> 00:30:21,840
I think it's he's just catering
to his audience.

490
00:30:22,440 --> 00:30:27,000
But here it says the husband and
Mary of whom was born Jesus.

491
00:30:28,760 --> 00:30:33,080
Now that looks like a divine
passive in from a Mormon

492
00:30:33,080 --> 00:30:36,400
perspective, it certainly makes
sense for that to be a divine

493
00:30:36,400 --> 00:30:40,360
passive.
You know, Mary, of whom was born

494
00:30:40,360 --> 00:30:43,720
Jesus is saying God the Father
is the Father here, but we're

495
00:30:43,720 --> 00:30:49,040
not going to say his name.
Now there's a counterpoint to

496
00:30:49,040 --> 00:30:50,720
that.
There's also argument against

497
00:30:50,720 --> 00:30:53,200
it, which I think could be an
argument for it as well.

498
00:30:54,040 --> 00:30:59,640
And that's this of whom is
ginger feminine in Hebrew or or

499
00:30:59,640 --> 00:31:01,240
in Yeah, I believe it's in
Hebrew.

500
00:31:01,640 --> 00:31:05,200
Aramaic could be referring to
the Greek, but I'm I'm

501
00:31:05,840 --> 00:31:09,160
forgetting in my notes aren't
clear so but any rate, so it's

502
00:31:09,160 --> 00:31:11,520
saying it's feminine there.
And I believe that's referring

503
00:31:11,520 --> 00:31:15,520
to the Aramaic or the Hebrew.
And that's really interesting

504
00:31:15,520 --> 00:31:19,520
too, because a number of people
have pointed out the Elohim is

505
00:31:19,520 --> 00:31:23,760
plural, but they often don't
mention that heme is a feminine

506
00:31:23,800 --> 00:31:27,800
plural ending.
So some fundamentalists will

507
00:31:27,800 --> 00:31:30,320
look at that and say, well,
that's because in order to have

508
00:31:30,400 --> 00:31:33,680
a Godhead, it has to be Father,
Mother in heaven has to be

509
00:31:33,680 --> 00:31:38,560
husband, wife, and in order to
be Elohim, you have to be a

510
00:31:38,600 --> 00:31:43,000
couple.
So saying that it's a feminine

511
00:31:43,000 --> 00:31:47,760
plural of whom doesn't cast
aspersion to the possibility

512
00:31:47,760 --> 00:31:51,880
that this is a divine passive.
In fact, it could emphasize that

513
00:31:51,880 --> 00:31:56,760
he's thinking back to the term
Elohim as the Father as opposed

514
00:31:56,760 --> 00:31:59,560
to using the term Jehovah.
I see.

515
00:31:59,560 --> 00:32:03,280
I'm not saying that's right or
wrong, but it's interesting and

516
00:32:03,280 --> 00:32:06,160
it's something that we tend to
miss and it's certainly a

517
00:32:06,160 --> 00:32:08,920
possibility.
You know, those sorts of things

518
00:32:08,920 --> 00:32:13,240
are always fascinating because
look, obviously as as being guys

519
00:32:13,240 --> 00:32:14,680
who believe this through and
through.

520
00:32:14,680 --> 00:32:17,280
It's always cool when we can see
something, or maybe see

521
00:32:17,280 --> 00:32:24,760
something there that lends
credence to some very defined

522
00:32:24,760 --> 00:32:27,080
Mormon doctrines.
In this case it would be the the

523
00:32:27,080 --> 00:32:32,960
Divine Feminine Heavenly Mother.
Yeah, super interesting too in

524
00:32:32,960 --> 00:32:36,760
terms of the long standing
tradition of, of Mary being, you

525
00:32:36,760 --> 00:32:43,720
know the the Holy Mother.
And one more very small issue

526
00:32:43,720 --> 00:32:50,320
about the, the Matthew's
particular Gospel as he mentions

527
00:32:50,360 --> 00:32:56,880
Ahaz and Hezekiah, but then he
quotes in the next section the,

528
00:32:56,880 --> 00:33:01,240
the, the, the, the quote about
look at virgin Chuck and Stephen

529
00:33:01,240 --> 00:33:05,320
Bear son, right?
And that was given in front of

530
00:33:06,480 --> 00:33:08,240
Hezekiah, as I recall, King
Hezekiah.

531
00:33:08,880 --> 00:33:13,320
And so he's also mentioned in
the lineage, which again, you

532
00:33:13,320 --> 00:33:17,600
know, Matthew is just he, he's,
he's pretty, he's foreshadowing

533
00:33:17,600 --> 00:33:19,320
so many different things that
are happening.

534
00:33:19,320 --> 00:33:22,920
He's really paying attention to
these lines and who's in them.

535
00:33:23,720 --> 00:33:26,840
That's, that's not something you
see in a lot of authors and in

536
00:33:26,840 --> 00:33:29,760
the other other, other authors.
But you know, Matthew's doing it

537
00:33:29,760 --> 00:33:34,800
because he does this a lot.
And if if you're not familiar

538
00:33:34,800 --> 00:33:37,000
with that or you don't have much
experience with that, you can go

539
00:33:37,000 --> 00:33:40,520
get a Greek New Testament
commentary or, you know,

540
00:33:40,520 --> 00:33:43,400
something of that nature that
really delves deep into the

541
00:33:43,400 --> 00:33:47,360
original language and look for
somebody who's very familiar

542
00:33:47,360 --> 00:33:49,360
with a Jewish perspective of
Matthew.

543
00:33:49,440 --> 00:33:53,120
And they will all mention, OK,
in this pericope, you will find

544
00:33:53,120 --> 00:33:55,680
that, you know, this number is
mentioned five times and the

545
00:33:55,680 --> 00:33:57,960
subject is the law.
So he's clearly referring to the

546
00:33:57,960 --> 00:34:01,680
Pentateuch is a more broad
topic.

547
00:34:01,880 --> 00:34:04,360
And we can see this in the
following details.

548
00:34:04,640 --> 00:34:07,160
Matthew's really careful about
these type of things.

549
00:34:07,640 --> 00:34:11,639
So it's it's worth noting that,
you know, the the quote that

550
00:34:11,639 --> 00:34:14,960
he's going to share that a lot
of scholars say has nothing to

551
00:34:14,960 --> 00:34:16,639
do with the Messiah.
It wasn't foretelling the

552
00:34:16,639 --> 00:34:18,639
Messiah, but nonetheless shows
up.

553
00:34:19,719 --> 00:34:23,280
That person also shows up in the
genealogy, which doesn't have to

554
00:34:23,280 --> 00:34:25,040
be there because they skipped a
lot of people.

555
00:34:25,679 --> 00:34:28,400
You couldn't have easily skipped
those, those persons.

556
00:34:29,400 --> 00:34:31,159
So let me.
Ask this question real quick

557
00:34:31,159 --> 00:34:33,719
here before we move on here
because I am curious about this

558
00:34:34,080 --> 00:34:37,000
this literary device that
Matthew uses.

559
00:34:37,480 --> 00:34:43,960
Is this something that is simply
for ease in communicating with a

560
00:34:44,199 --> 00:34:47,920
a Jewish audience or is this
does this have other

561
00:34:48,280 --> 00:34:52,920
applications like maybe keeping
prying eyes away or something

562
00:34:52,920 --> 00:34:56,520
like that?
Yeah, I think it's, it's, well,

563
00:34:57,040 --> 00:35:02,200
broadly speaking, I, I would say
there's a vast majority

564
00:35:02,200 --> 00:35:05,760
consensus, if not unanimous,
that Matthew's doing this to

565
00:35:05,760 --> 00:35:12,000
appeal to Jews, to show them
that he is writing the story of

566
00:35:12,000 --> 00:35:15,240
the Messiah and proving that
Jesus is the Messiah.

567
00:35:15,240 --> 00:35:19,320
Being using all of these Hebrew
techniques, referring to

568
00:35:19,520 --> 00:35:22,520
interpretational techniques and
referring to Old Testament

569
00:35:22,520 --> 00:35:27,240
scriptures to prove it.
And for you and I, if we're

570
00:35:27,240 --> 00:35:29,720
going to quote something, it it
has to match.

571
00:35:30,400 --> 00:35:32,040
But that's not how the Jews did
it.

572
00:35:32,040 --> 00:35:34,560
And if if anybody bothers to
read the Talmud night, I don't

573
00:35:34,560 --> 00:35:38,000
necessarily encourage it.
It's so bad.

574
00:35:38,920 --> 00:35:42,200
They have a lot of commentaries
that are interesting, but some

575
00:35:42,200 --> 00:35:46,960
of their commentaries, it's like
logical non sequitur 400 in a

576
00:35:46,960 --> 00:35:52,360
row in massive conclusion.
It's really, really bad.

577
00:35:52,720 --> 00:35:56,040
It's hard to follow.
It doesn't make a lot of logical

578
00:35:56,040 --> 00:35:58,040
sense.
But they didn't care.

579
00:35:58,040 --> 00:35:59,800
That's not how they were
thinking.

580
00:35:59,800 --> 00:36:04,720
It wasn't intended to be, you
know, cite your sources and

581
00:36:04,720 --> 00:36:07,920
prove everything logically.
They were just making their

582
00:36:07,920 --> 00:36:11,880
argument based upon, I like this
interpretation.

583
00:36:11,880 --> 00:36:14,720
It kind of makes sense.
And if you add up the numbers of

584
00:36:14,720 --> 00:36:16,600
this word and the numbers of
this word, they're related.

585
00:36:16,600 --> 00:36:18,840
And so therefore these two
stories are related.

586
00:36:19,200 --> 00:36:22,040
And, you know, they, they were
just making up all these reasons

587
00:36:22,560 --> 00:36:26,240
to argue their point, but none
of them really make much sense.

588
00:36:26,840 --> 00:36:31,800
And and so the Talmud is full of
arguments that are completely

589
00:36:31,800 --> 00:36:35,240
illogical.
So when we see Matthew referring

590
00:36:35,240 --> 00:36:40,240
to things like, for instance,
this, this famous prophecy,

591
00:36:40,240 --> 00:36:42,360
look, the virgin Chuck can see
even bear sudden she called

592
00:36:42,760 --> 00:36:47,160
Emmanuel.
We don't have any context in the

593
00:36:47,160 --> 00:36:49,720
story to to suggest this is
Messianic at all.

594
00:36:50,240 --> 00:36:53,600
It wasn't considered messianic.
None of the Jews read it and

595
00:36:53,600 --> 00:36:55,320
said, oh, this is referring to
the Messiah.

596
00:36:55,760 --> 00:36:59,480
It wasn't a thing.
And so Matthew puts it in here,

597
00:36:59,880 --> 00:37:03,240
and then, you know, the Jews are
looking at it saying, you know,

598
00:37:03,240 --> 00:37:06,640
that's not a messianic prophecy,
but it does describe what

599
00:37:06,640 --> 00:37:10,760
happened.
So, you know, possibly we missed

600
00:37:10,760 --> 00:37:13,960
it.
So Matthew in some ways is going

601
00:37:13,960 --> 00:37:19,560
to redefine what the term.
Now I want to, I want to sorry.

602
00:37:19,920 --> 00:37:23,800
So at some point, yeah, some of
his scriptures clearly are not

603
00:37:23,800 --> 00:37:28,240
were not previously accepted as
messianic, but he's making them

604
00:37:28,520 --> 00:37:32,200
messianic.
He's proposing that's how it

605
00:37:32,200 --> 00:37:35,520
should have been interpreted, or
at least that this is a dual

606
00:37:35,520 --> 00:37:39,000
fulfillment and should be seen
this way because he does say as

607
00:37:39,000 --> 00:37:43,040
it is written, he uses that like
50 times or something.

608
00:37:43,040 --> 00:37:46,320
I don't I don't know a lot in
the in his gospel because he's

609
00:37:46,320 --> 00:37:48,560
trying to say all these things
foretold Jesus.

610
00:37:49,040 --> 00:37:51,160
That's what they were doing.
Totally.

611
00:37:51,440 --> 00:37:54,160
And then real quick, can you,
can you tell the audience what

612
00:37:54,160 --> 00:37:58,560
the Talmud is exactly?
OK, so there were two major

613
00:37:58,560 --> 00:38:00,600
Talmuds.
I think there's a, a third one

614
00:38:01,280 --> 00:38:03,560
that didn't get completed or
something.

615
00:38:03,560 --> 00:38:06,520
I'm, I'm not a super big expert
on that, but there was a

616
00:38:06,520 --> 00:38:08,720
Jerusalem Talmud and a
Babylonian Talmud.

617
00:38:09,000 --> 00:38:14,280
And the idea was they took all
of the oral traditions of their

618
00:38:14,440 --> 00:38:18,800
teachers and then they put them
in writing during the diaspora.

619
00:38:19,720 --> 00:38:26,640
And a lot of the ones around
Jerusalem area weren't far, sit

620
00:38:26,640 --> 00:38:28,680
far away.
And so they call it the

621
00:38:28,680 --> 00:38:31,880
Jerusalem Talmud because it was
basically founded there.

622
00:38:32,640 --> 00:38:36,640
But the other ones who were
dispersed more widely did the

623
00:38:36,640 --> 00:38:40,480
same thing.
And when they did that, they,

624
00:38:41,360 --> 00:38:43,600
they compiled it in a book they
called the Talmud.

625
00:38:44,280 --> 00:38:48,200
And they, they divide the Talmud
into like ridiculous amounts of

626
00:38:48,200 --> 00:38:52,840
subcategories and they all kind
of overlap and so on, so forth.

627
00:38:53,360 --> 00:38:56,240
But they're different because
they were compiled separately.

628
00:38:56,240 --> 00:39:01,160
But they were both were supposed
to represent their hundreds or

629
00:39:01,160 --> 00:39:05,920
thousands of years of teaching
tradition of what the Gospels or

630
00:39:05,920 --> 00:39:11,360
what the sorry, what the, what
the Scriptures were teaching.

631
00:39:11,880 --> 00:39:14,720
Now, this was not because they
had a set cannon.

632
00:39:14,720 --> 00:39:17,480
They didn't have a set cannon
until after the Christians did

633
00:39:17,480 --> 00:39:22,400
it, but they did have common
overlapping teachings in

634
00:39:22,400 --> 00:39:25,560
different synagogues.
And and so the Talmud is

635
00:39:25,560 --> 00:39:29,560
compilation of their teachings.
Now, I want to point out a lot

636
00:39:29,560 --> 00:39:31,720
of people look at that and say
what's just oral tradition

637
00:39:31,720 --> 00:39:34,280
that's obviously garbage and
wasted.

638
00:39:34,280 --> 00:39:36,840
And you know, I mean, why, Why
even look at it?

639
00:39:37,600 --> 00:39:42,760
And a lot of times that may be
true, but back then they

640
00:39:42,760 --> 00:39:46,800
memorized everything the, the
little Jewish boys and girls

641
00:39:46,800 --> 00:39:50,480
were expected to.
I don't remember what all, all

642
00:39:50,480 --> 00:39:53,080
it was, it's a long list, but
it's like by the time you're

643
00:39:53,080 --> 00:39:55,600
loving, you're expected to
memorize Psalms or something.

644
00:39:56,240 --> 00:39:59,840
And you know, they, they
memorized hundreds and hundreds

645
00:39:59,840 --> 00:40:03,920
of Old Testament texts.
That was their basic education

646
00:40:04,720 --> 00:40:10,200
and their retention and ability
to memorize was far superior

647
00:40:10,200 --> 00:40:16,240
from what we have now.
I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll

648
00:40:16,240 --> 00:40:19,520
just give an example of a from
my personal life.

649
00:40:20,360 --> 00:40:26,320
I had a little boy, he was like
4-5 or six Max, very, very

650
00:40:26,320 --> 00:40:31,000
small, still speaking with, you
know, a very strong lisp and

651
00:40:31,000 --> 00:40:33,080
that sort of stuff because he
just wasn't, had developed his

652
00:40:33,080 --> 00:40:37,000
oral skills very well yet.
And my wife brought him into the

653
00:40:37,000 --> 00:40:39,520
family and said he's got a poem
he wants to recite.

654
00:40:40,120 --> 00:40:42,480
We're like, all right, you know,
we do that sort of stuff.

655
00:40:42,480 --> 00:40:46,000
So we're all listening to him
and he goes on for like an hour

656
00:40:46,440 --> 00:40:49,680
reciting the poem of the Statue
of Liberty and that thing, if

657
00:40:49,680 --> 00:40:51,160
you look it up, it's honkin
long.

658
00:40:51,160 --> 00:40:54,200
It's like 32 stanzas.
Some fool, I don't know exactly,

659
00:40:54,200 --> 00:40:58,280
but it was it's super, super
long and he barely like only

660
00:40:58,280 --> 00:41:01,000
once or twice the entire time.
Did he need a prompt?

661
00:41:02,600 --> 00:41:05,040
But that's and and I'm not
saying I'm not I'm like that.

662
00:41:05,040 --> 00:41:08,440
I don't memorize that like that,
but that when they start them

663
00:41:08,440 --> 00:41:12,560
young like that, they can really
memorize very, very well, long,

664
00:41:12,560 --> 00:41:16,520
long things like the entire book
of Psalms and the, you know,

665
00:41:16,520 --> 00:41:20,840
the, the, the, the 55 main books
of the Pentateuch and so forth.

666
00:41:20,840 --> 00:41:24,720
So when, when you see the chosen
and they're all reciting these

667
00:41:24,720 --> 00:41:26,200
scriptures and there's like, Oh
yeah.

668
00:41:26,200 --> 00:41:27,520
And they referred to the
scripture.

669
00:41:28,040 --> 00:41:30,480
Those were expected that
everybody knew them.

670
00:41:30,840 --> 00:41:34,360
It wasn't like the educated new
you got to remember Jesus

671
00:41:34,360 --> 00:41:37,920
disciples in the his twelve were
considered uneducated, but they

672
00:41:37,920 --> 00:41:42,760
still knew all of these things.
It was just normal and and we

673
00:41:42,760 --> 00:41:45,120
see, we can see that in the four
Gospels, not just in the Chosen.

674
00:41:45,160 --> 00:41:48,160
I'll just mention that because
it's more easier context for a

675
00:41:48,160 --> 00:41:52,040
lot of people.
But at any rate, so when we say

676
00:41:52,040 --> 00:41:55,960
that the Talmud represents their
oral traditions, that doesn't

677
00:41:55,960 --> 00:41:58,320
mean it's completely
untrustworthy.

678
00:41:58,440 --> 00:42:01,080
I think a lot of it's garbage
personally.

679
00:42:01,680 --> 00:42:05,640
But that said, I also respect
the fact that their brains were

680
00:42:05,960 --> 00:42:11,000
a lot more adjusted to mass
memorization that we are today.

681
00:42:11,040 --> 00:42:14,640
Man, I have.
A hard enough time just

682
00:42:14,640 --> 00:42:16,960
remembering my schedule.
I can't imagine trying to

683
00:42:17,000 --> 00:42:21,200
memorize the entire Torah.
Yeah, you know, that's, it's so

684
00:42:21,200 --> 00:42:25,520
funny because even for me, I
remember being his kid, nobody

685
00:42:25,520 --> 00:42:30,520
had nobody had phones.
We had landlines and yeah, and

686
00:42:30,720 --> 00:42:32,920
every time you moved, you
memorized all your friends phone

687
00:42:32,920 --> 00:42:34,800
numbers and you didn't think
twice about it.

688
00:42:34,800 --> 00:42:36,720
You memorized their addresses,
memorized their phone numbers,

689
00:42:36,720 --> 00:42:39,720
memorized their mom and dad's
names, you know, So if you ever

690
00:42:39,720 --> 00:42:41,720
needed it, it was there and
available and you tell your

691
00:42:41,720 --> 00:42:45,480
parents and stuff and you know,
you meant we memorized tons of

692
00:42:45,480 --> 00:42:48,680
stuff that way all the time and
our calendars.

693
00:42:49,440 --> 00:42:51,040
I still.
Remember my home phone number

694
00:42:51,040 --> 00:42:55,000
from when I was a kid?
Right, me too, 966-2951.

695
00:42:55,520 --> 00:43:00,000
Yeah, 286424924.
I mean, just I could, I could

696
00:43:00,000 --> 00:43:02,080
just go for it, right?
Right.

697
00:43:02,320 --> 00:43:05,200
But like, ask me my wife's phone
number today.

698
00:43:05,200 --> 00:43:09,240
I'm like Amber, right?
It's on speed dial.

699
00:43:09,240 --> 00:43:10,920
I mean, why would I want a
number?

700
00:43:11,280 --> 00:43:15,240
Tanya, I don't know.
Yeah, No, I don't know the

701
00:43:15,240 --> 00:43:17,600
numbers, right.
But you're right though that

702
00:43:17,680 --> 00:43:19,400
that's a good point, Drew.
That's a good point.

703
00:43:19,400 --> 00:43:23,440
I never thought about that.
All right, Sorry to take us down

704
00:43:23,440 --> 00:43:24,720
that side tangent there.
I just.

705
00:43:24,720 --> 00:43:29,280
No, not at all.
The the, there's some really

706
00:43:29,280 --> 00:43:33,280
interesting things here that
kind of skipping over of, of

707
00:43:33,400 --> 00:43:35,960
Joseph Smith making some
corrections and and so forth

708
00:43:35,960 --> 00:43:38,760
that are kind of small, but
they're probably not worth the

709
00:43:39,320 --> 00:43:42,960
the diversion.
So let's kind of move on.

710
00:43:42,960 --> 00:43:50,320
So as we, as we get to Matthew
starts his story of the

711
00:43:50,320 --> 00:43:54,480
nativity, we've got a couple
things that Joseph changes.

712
00:43:54,600 --> 00:43:58,520
First of all, he says as it is
written, which is significant.

713
00:43:58,880 --> 00:44:01,240
And he, he mentions the dream
was a vision.

714
00:44:01,240 --> 00:44:04,160
He changes it.
So he, he sees this as a

715
00:44:04,160 --> 00:44:09,360
visitation or something rather
than just a, a, a, a normal

716
00:44:09,360 --> 00:44:14,560
dream, which, you know, the
early Christians didn't seem to

717
00:44:14,560 --> 00:44:18,520
distinguish much between the
two, but Joseph did and, and,

718
00:44:18,560 --> 00:44:21,800
and makes that distinction.
And he says as it is written now

719
00:44:21,800 --> 00:44:24,960
Luke says, he mentions, you
know, there are other nativity

720
00:44:24,960 --> 00:44:27,640
stories have been written.
And, and so some people say,

721
00:44:27,640 --> 00:44:31,320
well, that's Matthew, but he
says it in the plural.

722
00:44:31,320 --> 00:44:33,280
So he's clearly referring to
something else.

723
00:44:33,720 --> 00:44:37,600
So Joseph's saying as it is
written, adding that to Matthew,

724
00:44:38,080 --> 00:44:41,840
is suggesting there were other
nativity stories that we don't

725
00:44:41,840 --> 00:44:47,120
have any more, which to some
lends some credence to the the

726
00:44:48,000 --> 00:44:52,920
apocryphal stories of Jesus's
childhood, which most scholars

727
00:44:52,920 --> 00:44:57,640
believe are entirely fanciful.
I would categorize them from my

728
00:44:57,640 --> 00:45:00,720
perspective is at least 85%
fanciful.

729
00:45:01,720 --> 00:45:04,880
But they do have certain
traditions that that hold more

730
00:45:04,880 --> 00:45:07,880
water and and are more
interesting than others.

731
00:45:07,880 --> 00:45:10,960
So at any rate, it's interesting
to know that Joseph's, you know,

732
00:45:10,960 --> 00:45:13,280
he's aware of it.
He's he's thinking about it,

733
00:45:13,440 --> 00:45:17,200
he's interested and at least
adds that little footnote.

734
00:45:18,440 --> 00:45:22,640
OK, so notice verse 18.
I'm just going to read for a

735
00:45:22,640 --> 00:45:24,080
second.
Now, as it is written, the birth

736
00:45:24,160 --> 00:45:28,160
of Jesus the Messiah took place
in this way after his mother

737
00:45:28,160 --> 00:45:32,080
Mary had been engaged to Joseph,
but before they lived together.

738
00:45:32,320 --> 00:45:36,880
She was found to be with child
of the Holy Spirit.

739
00:45:38,040 --> 00:45:43,240
OK, notice divine passive there,
divine passive before it says of

740
00:45:43,240 --> 00:45:48,200
the Holy Spirit, which again is
something is, is a is an LDS

741
00:45:48,680 --> 00:45:52,440
person that we would look at and
say that's kind of like you were

742
00:45:52,440 --> 00:45:57,040
saying, hinting at something
deeper that's not outwardly

743
00:45:57,040 --> 00:45:59,680
expressing.
That is something that could be

744
00:45:59,680 --> 00:46:01,240
what's happening with Matthew
right there.

745
00:46:03,440 --> 00:46:07,480
But I want to point something
out because it's it's the angels

746
00:46:07,480 --> 00:46:09,280
going to mention this to Joseph
in just a second.

747
00:46:10,040 --> 00:46:13,800
So during the betrothal period,
and and I know this is

748
00:46:13,800 --> 00:46:15,920
uncomfortable for a lot of
people, but it usually happened

749
00:46:15,920 --> 00:46:20,680
at 12 to 13 for the girls and
some are 16 to 18 for the boys

750
00:46:21,480 --> 00:46:26,000
for their first marriages.
So Brigham was actually a

751
00:46:26,000 --> 00:46:28,960
liberal thinker to say, you
know, you've got to be 25 before

752
00:46:28,960 --> 00:46:32,320
you minister society as a man,
it'd be single.

753
00:46:32,320 --> 00:46:36,400
And I mean, it's the society.
So he's given him an extra 7

754
00:46:36,400 --> 00:46:39,320
years compared to the Jews.
Somewhere Perkins on the other

755
00:46:39,320 --> 00:46:42,080
side going turn around, you just
call me progressive.

756
00:46:45,880 --> 00:46:49,960
Score for me.
Hate that Denver snuffer.

757
00:46:52,720 --> 00:46:55,360
That's awesome.
That one's definitely getting

758
00:46:55,360 --> 00:46:57,160
clipped into a short, I'm just
saying.

759
00:46:58,880 --> 00:47:03,200
Yeah, I get it.
OK, so, so anyway, they they

760
00:47:03,200 --> 00:47:05,840
were, they were betrothed and
you know, there was the

761
00:47:05,880 --> 00:47:07,840
contracts and stuff.
I don't want to get too far too

762
00:47:07,840 --> 00:47:11,880
deep and all that.
But after that period, they were

763
00:47:11,880 --> 00:47:18,240
considered by law married.
But she didn't move in with her

764
00:47:18,240 --> 00:47:24,760
new husband until a later time,
usually after her first

765
00:47:24,760 --> 00:47:31,120
menstruation, but not always.
And so there was, there was a

766
00:47:31,120 --> 00:47:34,200
designated time and word, and I
don't remember the word, there's

767
00:47:34,200 --> 00:47:38,640
a designated ritual where she
went from her father's house to

768
00:47:38,640 --> 00:47:40,280
her husband's house.
And that's why we get the

769
00:47:40,280 --> 00:47:42,640
parable of the 10 virgins and
the lambs and all that sort of

770
00:47:42,640 --> 00:47:45,520
stuff.
But with these, you know, with

771
00:47:45,520 --> 00:47:49,200
these younger girls, sometimes
they would move in with the new

772
00:47:49,200 --> 00:47:52,480
husband but haven't had their
first administration yet.

773
00:47:53,400 --> 00:47:57,040
So then there's a second word
for for consummating the

774
00:47:57,040 --> 00:47:59,560
marriage.
There's also a ritual that they

775
00:47:59,560 --> 00:48:05,080
had and that's those are all
phases of the marriage.

776
00:48:05,840 --> 00:48:11,960
So the actual betrothal is
legally marriage, but there's a

777
00:48:11,960 --> 00:48:15,800
following expected 2 stages to
that.

778
00:48:15,880 --> 00:48:18,880
That one, she's going to move in
with him and then she's going to

779
00:48:18,880 --> 00:48:21,280
consummate and hopefully those
happen at same time.

780
00:48:22,800 --> 00:48:25,880
But sometimes the girls were too
young and you know, the the

781
00:48:25,880 --> 00:48:27,640
husband was ready to take her
in.

782
00:48:28,040 --> 00:48:30,840
And so they there was just this
understanding that they're not

783
00:48:30,840 --> 00:48:33,280
going to do anything to them
until they've had their first

784
00:48:33,280 --> 00:48:36,080
administration.
So I mentioned that because.

785
00:48:36,080 --> 00:48:39,760
This is important too.
I, I just, it's a sad state of

786
00:48:39,760 --> 00:48:41,480
affairs.
I feel like I got to do this

787
00:48:41,960 --> 00:48:45,240
with these kind of
conversations, but nonetheless,

788
00:48:45,760 --> 00:48:48,960
and that's you can't judge
things through through things

789
00:48:48,960 --> 00:48:53,040
through presentism because right
now, I promise you somewhere

790
00:48:53,040 --> 00:48:58,400
there's a blue haired crazy
feminazi who's going to come and

791
00:48:58,400 --> 00:49:01,360
say you're for child brides.
No, that's not what we're

792
00:49:01,360 --> 00:49:03,720
saying.
What we're saying is this is

793
00:49:03,720 --> 00:49:10,040
what was acceptable in that time
period, during those days and.

794
00:49:10,040 --> 00:49:13,440
That's what was normal.
During those days, that's that's

795
00:49:13,440 --> 00:49:17,960
what was normal and most people
were only living into their 40s

796
00:49:17,960 --> 00:49:21,280
or 50s, right I.
Mean, yeah, maybe not even 50s,

797
00:49:21,640 --> 00:49:24,160
but certainly 40s getting old
back then.

798
00:49:24,800 --> 00:49:27,960
But, you know, and one of the
things that that modern society

799
00:49:27,960 --> 00:49:31,840
has forgotten is it's not it, it
you're talking about the blue

800
00:49:31,840 --> 00:49:37,000
hair so that it's not just Jews
and Christians who were like

801
00:49:37,000 --> 00:49:39,120
this.
And, and that tends to be the

802
00:49:39,120 --> 00:49:41,960
new modern way of looking at
it's the, it's the white

803
00:49:41,960 --> 00:49:45,200
privilege, mean bad guys who
have this patriarchal background

804
00:49:45,200 --> 00:49:49,400
who believe this.
No, this was Asian society, this

805
00:49:49,400 --> 00:49:54,120
was European Society, this was
Eastern European Russia, this

806
00:49:54,120 --> 00:49:57,680
was Indian societies, this was
African societies, Indonesian

807
00:49:57,680 --> 00:50:00,320
societies.
This was, you know, South

808
00:50:00,320 --> 00:50:03,680
America, all over the world,
this was the norm.

809
00:50:05,040 --> 00:50:07,920
Had way more to do about
lifespans than it did anything

810
00:50:07,920 --> 00:50:11,120
else.
Lifespans and and frankly, you

811
00:50:11,120 --> 00:50:14,080
know, kids grew up fast because
they were actually taught to

812
00:50:14,080 --> 00:50:16,160
think.
Now we teach them to memorize,

813
00:50:16,160 --> 00:50:21,520
regurgitate and not to think.
And that makes them less ready

814
00:50:21,520 --> 00:50:25,560
for the world.
But back then, you know, you

815
00:50:25,560 --> 00:50:29,240
have young kids who are very
mature and ready to take care of

816
00:50:29,240 --> 00:50:33,000
a household.
I watched a thing this week.

817
00:50:33,320 --> 00:50:38,040
This is a slight aside, but it's
it's pertinent on how Asian,

818
00:50:38,400 --> 00:50:42,240
specifically Japanese parents
teach their children to be so

819
00:50:42,240 --> 00:50:46,720
disciplined at a young age.
And they do it primarily through

820
00:50:46,720 --> 00:50:48,640
routines.
They have a morning routine.

821
00:50:48,640 --> 00:50:50,360
They have a school routine.
They have to after school

822
00:50:50,360 --> 00:50:51,600
routine.
They have a bed routine.

823
00:50:52,360 --> 00:50:54,840
And so the parents aren't like,
have you done your chores yet?

824
00:50:55,680 --> 00:50:59,600
The parents say, where are you
in this routine?

825
00:51:00,600 --> 00:51:03,200
And the kid would be like, oh,
this is where I'm at.

826
00:51:03,240 --> 00:51:06,560
And they, they're so used to
kids love routines.

827
00:51:06,560 --> 00:51:08,680
They feel comfortable with the
routine.

828
00:51:09,280 --> 00:51:11,880
So they'll just immediately be
like, oh, I'm supposed to be in

829
00:51:11,880 --> 00:51:15,000
the middle of this routine And
they will just go do it and, and

830
00:51:15,280 --> 00:51:19,160
take care of things.
And, you know, they also teach

831
00:51:19,160 --> 00:51:21,720
the like, they don't say, Hey,
you forgot your jacket.

832
00:51:22,040 --> 00:51:24,840
They don't do that.
They say, if you're going to

833
00:51:24,840 --> 00:51:28,880
school and it's cold, what do
you suppose would be good to

834
00:51:28,880 --> 00:51:31,800
have?
And then they'll be like, Oh

835
00:51:32,120 --> 00:51:34,160
yeah.
So they, they grow up and teach

836
00:51:34,160 --> 00:51:37,720
in a way that they have to make
up their own decisions and

837
00:51:37,720 --> 00:51:39,120
they're taking care of
themselves.

838
00:51:39,680 --> 00:51:43,040
Mom's not taking care of me.
She's reminding me I'm supposed

839
00:51:43,040 --> 00:51:47,240
to take care of myself.
And that attitude is huge.

840
00:51:47,880 --> 00:51:50,960
And so, you know, you've got, I
mean, watch some YouTube videos,

841
00:51:50,960 --> 00:51:53,320
man.
You got 8 year old kids who can

842
00:51:53,320 --> 00:51:57,360
do these amazing gymnastic feats
who are doing, you know,

843
00:51:57,400 --> 00:52:00,640
quadruple flippity flips and
landing in karate position and

844
00:52:01,080 --> 00:52:04,160
jumping up and kicking a
toothpick off of the top of it.

845
00:52:04,400 --> 00:52:09,320
You know, teeny tiny balancing
thing with kicking it with her

846
00:52:09,320 --> 00:52:11,480
toe.
They can do these amazing things

847
00:52:11,480 --> 00:52:15,240
at young ages because of how
they were raised.

848
00:52:16,120 --> 00:52:18,520
And you know, some people think
that's abusive and so forth.

849
00:52:18,520 --> 00:52:21,440
So we can ignore that.
But my point is, ancient

850
00:52:21,440 --> 00:52:26,280
societies were more like that
and had people that were much

851
00:52:26,280 --> 00:52:29,880
more mature, responsible and
capable than they are today

852
00:52:30,440 --> 00:52:34,360
because we.
Yeah, the the times necessitated

853
00:52:34,360 --> 00:52:36,720
that, right.
I mean, yeah, if you, if you're

854
00:52:36,720 --> 00:52:41,800
only living till you're to your
mid 40s, I mean, you got to kind

855
00:52:41,800 --> 00:52:45,520
of get out there, get a family
going and really take off from

856
00:52:45,520 --> 00:52:46,680
there.
Right.

857
00:52:48,400 --> 00:52:51,040
OK, so let's jump back into the
text.

858
00:52:51,040 --> 00:52:55,160
Her husband Joseph, by the way,
when you look at corruptions in

859
00:52:55,160 --> 00:52:58,640
Scripture, there are more
corruptions in the nativity than

860
00:52:58,640 --> 00:53:00,440
just about any section of the
Bible.

861
00:53:00,440 --> 00:53:04,800
There was so many changes to try
and say husband Joseph means,

862
00:53:04,840 --> 00:53:08,680
you know, or you know her, her
friend Joseph, you know, did

863
00:53:08,680 --> 00:53:12,400
this or whatever.
Just constantly getting rid of

864
00:53:12,400 --> 00:53:15,840
language that says he's the
father or that they're married

865
00:53:16,200 --> 00:53:18,640
or that they had sex or anything
like that.

866
00:53:18,640 --> 00:53:22,240
It's all corrupted somewhere and
changed and you can go back and

867
00:53:22,240 --> 00:53:25,560
find the earlier text and we can
just figure out that through a

868
00:53:25,560 --> 00:53:28,400
puzzle making process.
Which of the earlier text?

869
00:53:28,440 --> 00:53:31,560
And they're constantly trying to
get rid of the divinity of

870
00:53:31,560 --> 00:53:35,800
Christ because Gnostics didn't
believe he was divine, didn't

871
00:53:35,800 --> 00:53:38,480
believe he was pre existence,
and so they would change the

872
00:53:38,480 --> 00:53:42,080
text that he was just a good
prophet to match their message.

873
00:53:43,640 --> 00:53:49,000
There were other sects that did
the same thing, SCTS sects that

874
00:53:49,000 --> 00:53:52,200
did the same thing for different
reasons, but there are tons of

875
00:53:52,200 --> 00:53:55,600
changes in the nativity and I'm
I'm largely ignoring those, but

876
00:53:55,600 --> 00:53:57,200
we'll probably bring a couple to
attention.

877
00:53:58,400 --> 00:54:02,480
Her husband, being a righteous
man and unwilling to expose her

878
00:54:02,480 --> 00:54:05,840
to public disgrace, plans to
dismiss her quietly.

879
00:54:05,840 --> 00:54:08,800
Now I'm not using King James,
anybody who knows me knows I

880
00:54:08,800 --> 00:54:11,360
hate King James version.
It's full of way more

881
00:54:11,360 --> 00:54:14,600
corruptions than other versions
and hard to understand so I

882
00:54:14,600 --> 00:54:17,680
don't bother with it.
But this is an interesting

883
00:54:17,680 --> 00:54:23,320
detail.
In certain Jewish sex at that

884
00:54:23,320 --> 00:54:27,760
time, it was not optional to
divorce Mary.

885
00:54:28,800 --> 00:54:33,760
If your wife was found to have
cheated or committed adultery,

886
00:54:33,760 --> 00:54:37,480
which was perceived at this time
because she was betrothed, then

887
00:54:37,480 --> 00:54:42,120
she was to be strangled, burned
or stoned, and so was the guy

888
00:54:42,120 --> 00:54:45,360
who did it with her.
And that wasn't optional.

889
00:54:45,680 --> 00:54:47,840
It wasn't something you could
just say, I forgive her.

890
00:54:47,840 --> 00:54:50,920
She's 12 years old.
That wasn't an issue.

891
00:54:50,920 --> 00:54:54,480
That wasn't a thing.
And and not every sect thought

892
00:54:54,480 --> 00:54:59,000
it was mandatory, but you know,
a big chunk did.

893
00:54:59,400 --> 00:55:02,080
And so you can imagine that big
chunk for people who didn't

894
00:55:02,080 --> 00:55:05,800
think it was mandatory still
felt like that's probably the

895
00:55:05,800 --> 00:55:09,960
right thing to do you.
Doesn't the scripture, doesn't

896
00:55:09,960 --> 00:55:11,680
it say somewhere in the
scriptures that he had the

897
00:55:11,680 --> 00:55:14,440
option of putting her away
privately?

898
00:55:15,400 --> 00:55:17,360
Yeah, that's what he's, that's
what he's going to talk about.

899
00:55:17,360 --> 00:55:17,800
About.
Yeah.

900
00:55:17,800 --> 00:55:20,720
Plan to dismiss her quietly is
the same thing that you're

901
00:55:20,720 --> 00:55:26,000
remembering.
So for him, he is, if he were to

902
00:55:26,000 --> 00:55:32,440
marry her, he would be taking
upon himself, her shame, her

903
00:55:32,440 --> 00:55:38,480
disgrace, her sordid background
and her sin, Basically saying

904
00:55:38,520 --> 00:55:41,360
I'm OK with all this.
Not a big deal, right?

905
00:55:41,360 --> 00:55:45,440
All that sort of thing.
That was a huge, gargantuan

906
00:55:45,440 --> 00:55:48,920
humiliation.
This was not kind of how we see

907
00:55:48,920 --> 00:55:52,320
it today where there's, you
know, so many people cheat that

908
00:55:52,320 --> 00:55:55,120
it's just kind of almost normal.
And we just look the other way.

909
00:55:55,120 --> 00:55:56,920
We forgive each other and move
on.

910
00:55:57,320 --> 00:55:58,840
That's not how it was seen at
all.

911
00:55:59,240 --> 00:56:04,160
It was like you were shunned for
the rest of your life for this.

912
00:56:04,640 --> 00:56:09,520
If he did not marry Mary, she
would have not had a good social

913
00:56:09,520 --> 00:56:11,640
life.
She would have been naturally

914
00:56:11,640 --> 00:56:14,200
very poor.
Many people would not have

915
00:56:14,200 --> 00:56:16,600
contracted business with her on
the street, including selling

916
00:56:16,600 --> 00:56:19,120
food.
They would not hire her.

917
00:56:19,600 --> 00:56:21,360
They would not talk to her,
Right.

918
00:56:21,360 --> 00:56:24,400
You know, the woman in Samaritan
as well, She's there in the heat

919
00:56:24,400 --> 00:56:26,640
of the day because she's got a
bad reputation.

920
00:56:27,080 --> 00:56:28,840
You know, she can't go with the
other women.

921
00:56:29,360 --> 00:56:32,200
And so she's there by herself.
That would have been Mary,

922
00:56:32,920 --> 00:56:35,360
except for in Jerusalem or
Bethlehem or whatever she ended

923
00:56:35,360 --> 00:56:43,040
up the if she, if she had stayed
in Nazareth, with such a small

924
00:56:43,040 --> 00:56:46,440
city like that, she would have
had a bad reputation the whole

925
00:56:46,440 --> 00:56:51,760
rest of her life.
Now if Joseph marries her, he

926
00:56:51,920 --> 00:56:54,800
gets that bad reputation the
rest of his life.

927
00:56:55,960 --> 00:56:59,040
They're not going to look at her
and say, oh, the 12 year old,

928
00:56:59,040 --> 00:57:01,680
she was naughty.
She she, she had sex with her

929
00:57:01,680 --> 00:57:03,560
husband before she moved in with
him.

930
00:57:03,800 --> 00:57:07,520
They're going to say she's 12,
he's older, he's got the

931
00:57:07,520 --> 00:57:12,400
authority, he's her boss, he can
do what he wants, and she's just

932
00:57:12,480 --> 00:57:14,800
complying.
He's the one who's a bad guy,

933
00:57:15,080 --> 00:57:18,120
why can't he wait?
He's older, he's more mature, he

934
00:57:18,120 --> 00:57:19,440
should have more control of
himself.

935
00:57:19,440 --> 00:57:22,080
Shame on him.
So then they're going to look at

936
00:57:22,120 --> 00:57:25,720
him as a bad guy if he doesn't
expose that she's committed

937
00:57:25,720 --> 00:57:31,000
adultery.
Add to this the apocryphal count

938
00:57:31,000 --> 00:57:34,640
suggests he was about 50 years
old when he was married to her.

939
00:57:35,080 --> 00:57:38,720
Objected and said I'm too old of
a man to marry this young girl,

940
00:57:38,960 --> 00:57:41,600
choose somebody besides me.
But the temple high priest says

941
00:57:41,600 --> 00:57:45,840
no, we're going to do a trial
and ask God.

942
00:57:45,920 --> 00:57:49,320
And he chose Joseph and you
know, he dies pretty young,

943
00:57:49,320 --> 00:57:52,920
which is why we don't see him.
The rest of the the the four

944
00:57:52,920 --> 00:57:57,240
Gospels he's mentioned but never
seen again other than when Jesus

945
00:57:57,240 --> 00:58:00,880
is 12.
So this is one of those

946
00:58:00,880 --> 00:58:04,280
suggestions.
Again, if he's older, this is

947
00:58:04,280 --> 00:58:05,760
going to look really bad for
him.

948
00:58:06,120 --> 00:58:11,960
And it it's not a sin to be with
your betrothed before you get

949
00:58:11,960 --> 00:58:14,560
married, but it's heavily
frowned upon.

950
00:58:14,560 --> 00:58:17,840
And if you're 50 and she's 12,
everybody's just going to think

951
00:58:17,840 --> 00:58:21,400
you're a slimy old geezer and
and dishonorable.

952
00:58:21,720 --> 00:58:26,640
And so his whole life of having
a reputation as being a

953
00:58:26,640 --> 00:58:30,760
righteous man is lost.
So this is a really, really big

954
00:58:30,760 --> 00:58:34,800
deal for Joseph.
And not only that, we have

955
00:58:35,480 --> 00:58:38,680
apocryphal suggestions that he
had other wives.

956
00:58:39,600 --> 00:58:43,920
So imagine we we know from later
accounts in the in the in the

957
00:58:43,960 --> 00:58:48,080
Gospels that his family did not
know about his miraculous

958
00:58:48,080 --> 00:58:51,960
conception or as it's called,
they did not know the story that

959
00:58:51,960 --> 00:58:54,320
Joseph was not the natural
father.

960
00:58:54,320 --> 00:58:57,840
They'd never heard that.
Everybody that meets Jesus says

961
00:58:57,840 --> 00:58:59,360
Joseph was your father.
We knew him.

962
00:59:00,200 --> 00:59:02,640
Nobody says, well, God's your
father and Joseph just raised

963
00:59:02,640 --> 00:59:04,840
you.
Nobody says that because the

964
00:59:04,840 --> 00:59:07,320
story was not told until after
Jesus died.

965
00:59:08,280 --> 00:59:12,360
And so in this situation, if
he's plurally married, you can

966
00:59:12,360 --> 00:59:15,040
only imagine how the other wives
are going to feel.

967
00:59:15,360 --> 00:59:18,160
Joseph, you're 51 and you went
and you slept with your 12 year

968
00:59:18,160 --> 00:59:21,360
old and you couldn't wait for
her to, you know, blah, blah,

969
00:59:21,520 --> 00:59:24,520
blah, or 13 year old, whatever
it is doesn't matter.

970
00:59:24,520 --> 00:59:27,240
You can imagine the feelings
that would have been there and

971
00:59:27,240 --> 00:59:32,880
the, the, the disgust and the
disapproval of the impropriety

972
00:59:32,880 --> 00:59:38,480
of him being in that situation.
So now I hope we've kind of

973
00:59:38,480 --> 00:59:42,160
established for the listener
here what Joseph's looking at.

974
00:59:43,720 --> 00:59:49,720
He's he's, he's saying, he's
saying I can't, I can't take

975
00:59:49,720 --> 00:59:53,360
this little girl and expose her
to stoning.

976
00:59:54,120 --> 00:59:56,400
And she's not going to get
stoned because the Romans won't

977
00:59:56,400 --> 00:59:58,840
allow it right now.
But people will treat her

978
00:59:58,840 --> 01:00:01,280
horribly the whole rest of her
life if they find out.

979
01:00:02,280 --> 01:00:05,400
And maybe they will find out,
but I'm not going to make a big

980
01:00:05,400 --> 01:00:09,640
deal and make it worse for her.
So even though he's he's

981
01:00:09,640 --> 01:00:13,240
portrayed as being very
righteous, he's exercising a

982
01:00:13,400 --> 01:00:17,800
great deal of empathy here to
say I'll do it the quietest,

983
01:00:18,440 --> 01:00:22,920
easiest, most forgiving way I
could possibly do because maybe

984
01:00:22,920 --> 01:00:26,840
she wronged me badly.
But she's just a young kid.

985
01:00:27,120 --> 01:00:31,760
You know, he's, he's taking into
account her age and she she grew

986
01:00:31,760 --> 01:00:34,600
up in a temple.
She doesn't have the same kind

987
01:00:34,600 --> 01:00:37,760
of background a lot of people
have same temptations other

988
01:00:37,760 --> 01:00:40,920
people have.
And he's just exercising a lot

989
01:00:40,920 --> 01:00:43,840
of compassion.
And I, I think a lot of us

990
01:00:43,920 --> 01:00:46,480
ignore that and don't see that
in Joseph's story.

991
01:00:47,040 --> 01:00:51,800
But moreover, we don't see what
are the consequences of him not

992
01:00:51,960 --> 01:00:53,440
following through with a
divorce.

993
01:00:54,600 --> 01:00:57,480
And we're going to, we're going
to see that in just a minute by

994
01:00:57,480 --> 01:01:03,720
how the Angel addresses him.
It's such an amazing, beautiful

995
01:01:04,240 --> 01:01:09,640
story, I think, to watch and see
Joseph's costly love being

996
01:01:09,640 --> 01:01:12,960
unveiled.
I had some.

997
01:01:13,040 --> 01:01:19,200
Serious Christ like love, right?
Like this whole time I I've been

998
01:01:19,200 --> 01:01:26,640
like thinking about up to this
point, everything Jesus is going

999
01:01:26,640 --> 01:01:31,480
to be born into is kind of
pointing toward his towards his

1000
01:01:32,160 --> 01:01:38,440
salvatic mission mission, right.
If we look at what what Joseph

1001
01:01:38,440 --> 01:01:43,080
does for Mary in this moment,
knowing full well this doesn't

1002
01:01:43,080 --> 01:01:45,360
end well for me necessarily
right for.

1003
01:01:45,640 --> 01:01:48,360
The rest of his life.
For the rest of his life, he's

1004
01:01:48,360 --> 01:01:52,120
going to bear this right?
And look, we can only speculate.

1005
01:01:52,600 --> 01:01:56,360
I haven't dug into the apocrypha
to see, but I got to think the

1006
01:01:56,360 --> 01:01:58,960
guy probably lost a wife over
this, right?

1007
01:01:58,960 --> 01:02:01,520
Probably lost part of his
family, right?

1008
01:02:01,520 --> 01:02:03,440
That or at.
Least lost her respect.

1009
01:02:04,000 --> 01:02:08,960
On on on the table right?
Probably hard for him to get

1010
01:02:08,960 --> 01:02:13,600
work after this.
His good name is just gone.

1011
01:02:15,400 --> 01:02:19,240
He he very much is, is taking on
now.

1012
01:02:19,240 --> 01:02:22,360
There's actually no sin there,
but the appearance is is that he

1013
01:02:22,360 --> 01:02:27,560
is absolutely taking on on a
perceived sin on Mary's part.

1014
01:02:28,560 --> 01:02:30,520
Yep.
The, the other thing with the

1015
01:02:30,520 --> 01:02:34,960
women that you mentioned
beforehand, I do find it super

1016
01:02:34,960 --> 01:02:39,080
interesting that many of the
things that Christ does seems to

1017
01:02:39,080 --> 01:02:44,080
upset the apple cart in terms of
how men and women interact,

1018
01:02:44,200 --> 01:02:46,800
right?
And so seeing seeing what

1019
01:02:46,800 --> 01:02:50,440
Matthew chose to put in the
genealogy, I think further

1020
01:02:50,440 --> 01:02:55,600
points to that.
Yeah, so I mentioned briefly

1021
01:02:55,600 --> 01:02:59,400
earlier, but now in context, I
hope it it kind of resonates a

1022
01:02:59,400 --> 01:03:02,320
little harder.
The the Angel appears and says

1023
01:03:02,320 --> 01:03:08,480
Joseph, son of David.
Oh, I missed, I, I, I missed

1024
01:03:08,480 --> 01:03:09,840
verse 20.
There's something really

1025
01:03:09,840 --> 01:03:12,040
important here.
It says just when he had

1026
01:03:12,040 --> 01:03:14,200
resolved to do this, the Angel
came.

1027
01:03:14,760 --> 01:03:16,800
I, I skipped over that part of
the verse.

1028
01:03:16,800 --> 01:03:19,680
Sorry.
That's a significant thing

1029
01:03:19,720 --> 01:03:21,920
because the Greek word there,
which I won't bother to

1030
01:03:21,920 --> 01:03:24,560
pronounce because it's super
long, it's a $25 word.

1031
01:03:25,720 --> 01:03:31,800
But that Greek word there says
it implies that he's taken some

1032
01:03:31,800 --> 01:03:34,920
time to seriously think about
all the possibilities and

1033
01:03:34,920 --> 01:03:37,160
ruminate them through his head
before making a decision.

1034
01:03:38,560 --> 01:03:41,600
Now, you could just say you
could see this from Joseph's

1035
01:03:41,600 --> 01:03:43,160
perspective.
He's like, oh, she committed

1036
01:03:43,160 --> 01:03:46,040
adultery, I have to divorce her.
I have no choice.

1037
01:03:46,040 --> 01:03:49,960
That's what the law requires.
And so I'm going to do it easy.

1038
01:03:50,280 --> 01:03:54,440
3 second decision and he's maybe
pissed at her, right?

1039
01:03:55,000 --> 01:03:56,400
But that's not what this word
says.

1040
01:03:56,400 --> 01:03:59,920
This suggests he thought about
it maybe for days or, you know,

1041
01:04:00,000 --> 01:04:02,400
a full day or something.
He's given it a lot of thought,

1042
01:04:02,400 --> 01:04:03,960
agony, prayer, thinking about
it.

1043
01:04:04,240 --> 01:04:07,880
How am I going to handle this?
But it's obvious how he should

1044
01:04:07,880 --> 01:04:10,520
handle it from a Jew's
perspective at that time.

1045
01:04:11,240 --> 01:04:14,400
And, and, and he apparently
doesn't believe Mary or he

1046
01:04:14,400 --> 01:04:17,520
wouldn't have chosen decided
what he was going to do.

1047
01:04:18,280 --> 01:04:19,800
But he thought about it
carefully.

1048
01:04:20,680 --> 01:04:22,800
So that's a really important
detail.

1049
01:04:22,800 --> 01:04:24,200
This wasn't just a spur of the
moment.

1050
01:04:24,200 --> 01:04:25,680
Oh, that's what I'm supposed to
do, so I'm going to do it.

1051
01:04:26,360 --> 01:04:30,360
He really agonizes over this.
And then when the Angel shows

1052
01:04:30,360 --> 01:04:32,120
up, he says, Joseph, son of
David.

1053
01:04:32,120 --> 01:04:36,400
Now the the angel's purpose is
to correct him.

1054
01:04:37,560 --> 01:04:41,720
And he could say, come on,
Joseph, don't you haven't,

1055
01:04:41,720 --> 01:04:44,720
you're old.
Haven't you discerned the

1056
01:04:44,720 --> 01:04:47,000
Spirit?
How would you learn to tell when

1057
01:04:47,000 --> 01:04:48,560
God is speaking through
somebody?

1058
01:04:49,000 --> 01:04:51,000
Can't you discern these things?
What's your problem?

1059
01:04:52,200 --> 01:04:54,800
He could have come and rebuked
him, but he doesn't.

1060
01:04:55,200 --> 01:04:59,360
He gives him this honorific
title to say immediately, look,

1061
01:05:00,000 --> 01:05:04,440
I recognize and honor you for
who you are and your lineage and

1062
01:05:04,440 --> 01:05:08,240
your background and is a
righteous person, but you're

1063
01:05:08,240 --> 01:05:14,320
making a mistake here.
He says do not be afraid to take

1064
01:05:14,320 --> 01:05:17,360
Mary as your wife.
Now, the, the, the original

1065
01:05:17,360 --> 01:05:20,640
words here are as I was
describing earlier, there's a

1066
01:05:20,640 --> 01:05:24,240
ceremony where you take her home
to your house and there's a

1067
01:05:24,240 --> 01:05:25,760
separate ceremony for
consummation.

1068
01:05:26,120 --> 01:05:30,440
The word is very specific in the
original here to refer to take

1069
01:05:30,440 --> 01:05:32,240
her to your home.
So that's a it's a good

1070
01:05:32,240 --> 01:05:35,120
translation, but we don't get
really get the significance of

1071
01:05:35,120 --> 01:05:38,520
it unless, you know, we have the
context I gave earlier.

1072
01:05:38,880 --> 01:05:41,720
So he's saying you're going to
take her into your home.

1073
01:05:41,920 --> 01:05:44,240
You're going to continue with
this marriage.

1074
01:05:44,240 --> 01:05:46,800
You're not going to divorce.
That's what he's immediately

1075
01:05:46,800 --> 01:05:50,280
telling him for the child
conceived in her is of the Holy

1076
01:05:50,280 --> 01:05:52,000
Spirit.
So you're wrong.

1077
01:05:52,600 --> 01:05:57,000
And I'm announcing that to you
right now, keeping you from

1078
01:05:57,000 --> 01:05:59,760
making a mistake.
She will bear a son, and you are

1079
01:05:59,760 --> 01:06:03,320
to name him.
This is significant.

1080
01:06:03,880 --> 01:06:07,680
The only person in Jewish law is
allowed to name a child is the

1081
01:06:07,680 --> 01:06:13,040
legal father.
So the angel's saying to him, I

1082
01:06:13,120 --> 01:06:17,920
am commanding you to take the
part of the legal father of this

1083
01:06:17,920 --> 01:06:22,440
child.
You're not to say that it was an

1084
01:06:22,440 --> 01:06:24,560
adulterous child and you're
marrying her anyway.

1085
01:06:24,880 --> 01:06:27,160
That's the possibility.
Really.

1086
01:06:27,160 --> 01:06:30,800
Weird one, maybe for a Jew, but
he's emphasizing you were going

1087
01:06:30,800 --> 01:06:33,080
to marry her.
You're not going to call it off

1088
01:06:33,560 --> 01:06:35,840
and you're going to pretend this
is your child.

1089
01:06:36,280 --> 01:06:40,480
So you are going to look like
this perv and you're going to

1090
01:06:40,480 --> 01:06:41,760
have to deal with it the rest of
your life.

1091
01:06:42,520 --> 01:06:45,600
So he's calling him to this
costly love we were referring to

1092
01:06:45,600 --> 01:06:49,360
earlier very specifically and
making it very clear to him.

1093
01:06:49,960 --> 01:06:53,280
But then he doesn't say you
shall call his name Joseph

1094
01:06:53,480 --> 01:06:55,600
because it was his right to call
his son Joseph.

1095
01:06:56,360 --> 01:06:58,760
They were allowed to choose the
name and it usually was a family

1096
01:06:58,760 --> 01:07:00,800
name.
And your first born is often

1097
01:07:00,800 --> 01:07:02,720
your name.
And so he's going to say, I'm

1098
01:07:02,720 --> 01:07:05,200
going to give you the you were
to name him.

1099
01:07:05,480 --> 01:07:06,760
He doesn't give him a choice
either.

1100
01:07:06,760 --> 01:07:10,640
He says, and I'm going to tell
you what to name him, which

1101
01:07:10,960 --> 01:07:14,000
names back then was a really big
deal.

1102
01:07:14,240 --> 01:07:18,320
It was not just a title.
It was to describe your destiny

1103
01:07:18,320 --> 01:07:20,840
or, you know, your, your mission
or whatever.

1104
01:07:20,840 --> 01:07:23,880
And that was a father's right
and privilege to pray about and

1105
01:07:23,880 --> 01:07:26,880
get revelation on and think
about it, you know, or maybe

1106
01:07:26,880 --> 01:07:29,560
just name it after himself
because none of his otherwise

1107
01:07:29,560 --> 01:07:31,760
did or whatever.
It's you know, this is a really

1108
01:07:31,760 --> 01:07:35,600
big deal for them more than it
is today, even though it's still

1109
01:07:35,600 --> 01:07:39,840
kind of a big deal today.
Nowadays, you know, the husband

1110
01:07:39,840 --> 01:07:43,320
and wife confer on it back then
husband names it, you know, as

1111
01:07:43,320 --> 01:07:46,760
we see with the story of
Zechariah and and you know,

1112
01:07:47,320 --> 01:07:49,160
they're they're saying, you
know, you're just not going to

1113
01:07:49,160 --> 01:07:50,480
name him John Elizabeth, get out
of here.

1114
01:07:50,480 --> 01:07:52,200
It's not your business.
He's the one that names him.

1115
01:07:52,880 --> 01:07:55,960
So he's saying you're taking on
legal responsibility and you're

1116
01:07:55,960 --> 01:07:58,720
going to name him Jesus popular
name at the time.

1117
01:07:59,120 --> 01:08:03,600
But then he says for he will
save them in his their sins and

1118
01:08:03,600 --> 01:08:07,800
it says his people there save
his people from their sins.

1119
01:08:09,440 --> 01:08:14,000
So that perspective alone is a
really interesting detail that

1120
01:08:14,280 --> 01:08:19,120
was not clearly understood it it
Jesus's time until after he's

1121
01:08:20,040 --> 01:08:21,720
gone through, you know, the
atonement.

1122
01:08:22,160 --> 01:08:25,560
People didn't really understand
what it meant that they were his

1123
01:08:25,560 --> 01:08:28,840
people or that he was saving
them from their sins.

1124
01:08:28,840 --> 01:08:31,600
But this is what Joseph gets
right away, some kind of big

1125
01:08:31,600 --> 01:08:34,880
doctrinal revelations.
We don't appreciate when we read

1126
01:08:34,880 --> 01:08:36,439
it.
It's just that's the pretty

1127
01:08:36,439 --> 01:08:39,640
words we read it, it, it, it at
Christmas.

1128
01:08:40,200 --> 01:08:43,800
But there's, you know, some this
is new doctrine for him and new

1129
01:08:43,800 --> 01:08:47,279
doctrine for the people.
And then he says this took place

1130
01:08:47,279 --> 01:08:49,760
to fulfill all things that have
been spoken by the Lord through

1131
01:08:49,760 --> 01:08:51,760
the prophets.
And then it does the quote,

1132
01:08:52,200 --> 01:08:54,040
look, the virgin shall conceive
and bear a son.

1133
01:08:54,040 --> 01:08:56,479
You shall name him Emmanuel,
which means God is with us.

1134
01:08:57,800 --> 01:09:00,000
There's all sorts of background
on that I don't want to get into

1135
01:09:00,000 --> 01:09:01,720
cause honestly, I think it's a
little bit boring.

1136
01:09:02,399 --> 01:09:06,279
But I do want to point out this
usage of the word virgin.

1137
01:09:06,319 --> 01:09:09,319
And, you know, I remember being
in the mainstream church, I

1138
01:09:09,319 --> 01:09:13,040
heard so many times, oh, these
other translations, they'd call

1139
01:09:13,040 --> 01:09:16,359
her a young girl or a young
maiden, but they don't want,

1140
01:09:16,359 --> 01:09:18,399
it's not important that they
call her a virgin.

1141
01:09:18,800 --> 01:09:21,800
And you know, so they don't
translate it well, blah, blah,

1142
01:09:21,800 --> 01:09:22,800
blah.
They say all these things.

1143
01:09:23,640 --> 01:09:27,479
That's just ignorance.
As far as the the, the, the

1144
01:09:27,600 --> 01:09:31,120
Jewish culture is concerned and
the Hebrew language, the word

1145
01:09:31,120 --> 01:09:33,920
here is alma and it refers to
young girl.

1146
01:09:35,120 --> 01:09:37,479
That's it.
It doesn't specify if she's a

1147
01:09:37,479 --> 01:09:41,760
virgin or not.
But that said, if you were a

1148
01:09:41,760 --> 01:09:46,720
Hebrew or if you're a 1st
century Jew and you're seeing

1149
01:09:46,720 --> 01:09:50,560
the word alma, you're going to
assume she's a virgin.

1150
01:09:50,960 --> 01:09:55,240
Unless somebody says otherwise,
there's no reason to assume a 12

1151
01:09:55,240 --> 01:09:57,840
year old is not a virgin.
And you're just not going to

1152
01:09:57,840 --> 01:10:00,200
assume that's the case or not
the case.

1153
01:10:00,520 --> 01:10:03,920
Unless somebody says, oh, by the
way, you know, she's on her

1154
01:10:03,920 --> 01:10:07,600
second baby, sure, then you
might think something.

1155
01:10:07,960 --> 01:10:11,960
So using the word in translating
young woman is not denigrating

1156
01:10:12,360 --> 01:10:14,960
and saying she's not a virgin or
that's not important.

1157
01:10:14,960 --> 01:10:18,480
It's just the word they used.
But in their culture that was

1158
01:10:18,480 --> 01:10:21,280
presumed.
And I think that's an important

1159
01:10:21,280 --> 01:10:25,360
part, not to be bashing on
translations for being accurate

1160
01:10:26,880 --> 01:10:30,160
and and suggesting they're
trying to encourage a belief in

1161
01:10:30,160 --> 01:10:33,920
something else because it's not.
It's just a different culture

1162
01:10:34,920 --> 01:10:37,640
that they're referring to.
OK, what now?

1163
01:10:37,640 --> 01:10:40,680
This is significant.
This happens three times with

1164
01:10:40,680 --> 01:10:43,680
Joseph, maybe 4, and each time
is the exact same.

1165
01:10:43,680 --> 01:10:47,360
When Joseph awoke out of his
vision, he did as the Lord

1166
01:10:47,360 --> 01:10:50,440
commanded him.
He took his wife but had no

1167
01:10:50,440 --> 01:10:54,560
marital relations with her until
she had borne a son and he named

1168
01:10:54,560 --> 01:10:59,280
him Jesus.
In each case, when Joseph is

1169
01:10:59,280 --> 01:11:01,200
warned by an Angel, he
immediately obeys.

1170
01:11:02,760 --> 01:11:05,520
He quietly obeys.
We don't have him say, well, I

1171
01:11:05,520 --> 01:11:07,360
don't know, I'm kind of
concerned about this or what

1172
01:11:07,360 --> 01:11:10,400
about this, or well, if I do
this, then this one might

1173
01:11:10,400 --> 01:11:13,080
happen.
He, you know, he might maybe ask

1174
01:11:13,080 --> 01:11:15,160
questions in the vision.
We don't have record of that.

1175
01:11:15,160 --> 01:11:17,760
But as soon as he wakes up, he's
like, all right, we're going to

1176
01:11:17,760 --> 01:11:18,720
Egypt.
All right.

1177
01:11:18,720 --> 01:11:20,640
We're going to Nazareth.
All right, we're going to, you

1178
01:11:20,640 --> 01:11:23,320
know, we're moving.
Angel told me to do something.

1179
01:11:23,320 --> 01:11:29,160
It's done this immediate
obedience and this translation

1180
01:11:29,160 --> 01:11:34,000
is actually a really good one
and it's from it's like the

1181
01:11:35,440 --> 01:11:37,280
Greek New Testament commentary
or something like that.

1182
01:11:37,400 --> 01:11:41,880
I don't remember which one I got
it from, but it said he had no

1183
01:11:41,880 --> 01:11:45,560
marital relations with her until
she had born a son.

1184
01:11:45,560 --> 01:11:49,920
That was taken out of a lot of
early texts and it's softened in

1185
01:11:49,920 --> 01:11:53,200
the King James Version, but the
the point is clear.

1186
01:11:53,200 --> 01:11:57,800
They Mary had other children
later and more interestingly,

1187
01:11:59,960 --> 01:12:11,220
where maybe it's an earlier one,
maybe it's later.

1188
01:12:13,500 --> 01:12:18,980
It says that that Mary brought
forth a first born son.

1189
01:12:20,940 --> 01:12:23,540
Maybe it's a maybe that's a
Luke, I'm not sure.

1190
01:12:25,860 --> 01:12:29,860
And and maybe that's actually
what's what's implied here in in

1191
01:12:29,900 --> 01:12:31,380
or it comes in the King James or
something.

1192
01:12:32,120 --> 01:12:36,240
But at any rate, it uses a
specific non definite article

1193
01:12:36,520 --> 01:12:39,720
for a first born forward as
opposed to a definite article.

1194
01:12:39,720 --> 01:12:44,760
The first born son implying that
Jesus is her first born.

1195
01:12:44,760 --> 01:12:47,560
But Joseph later had his first
born as well.

1196
01:12:48,400 --> 01:12:51,720
And of course, you know, you'd
see later in the Gospels his his

1197
01:12:51,720 --> 01:12:54,680
brothers and sisters are
mentioned is coming and saying,

1198
01:12:54,680 --> 01:12:55,720
you know, they're trying to get
to you.

1199
01:12:55,720 --> 01:12:59,920
They think you've gone crazy,
but it refers to them and and

1200
01:12:59,920 --> 01:13:03,160
the, the, the Greek word that's
used, as I recall, refers to at

1201
01:13:03,160 --> 01:13:06,440
least 2 girls and one boy.
So we know had at least three

1202
01:13:06,440 --> 01:13:12,040
siblings from Joseph, but any at
any rate, because the Catholic

1203
01:13:12,160 --> 01:13:16,560
Catholic tradition that she was
perpetually a virgin for her

1204
01:13:16,560 --> 01:13:19,400
whole life.
They don't talk about that.

1205
01:13:19,400 --> 01:13:22,240
They don't like to mention that,
but it's, I think it's

1206
01:13:22,240 --> 01:13:24,840
interesting from a Mormon
perspective when we understand

1207
01:13:24,840 --> 01:13:29,680
that God the Father was her
first husband, the one for

1208
01:13:29,680 --> 01:13:33,760
eternity and Joseph was the one
for time that we see that she

1209
01:13:33,760 --> 01:13:35,200
does have other children with
him.

1210
01:13:35,680 --> 01:13:42,920
And some commentators have
noticed, and it kind of snubbed

1211
01:13:42,920 --> 01:13:48,040
Catholicism's perspective by
saying as a Hebrew woman, it it,

1212
01:13:48,080 --> 01:13:51,000
it honors her to say she
fulfilled what was required of

1213
01:13:51,000 --> 01:13:54,160
her by being a mother.
That's what her job was.

1214
01:13:54,680 --> 01:13:58,600
That's the most important thing
a woman can do, and to say she

1215
01:13:58,600 --> 01:14:01,400
never had children again is to
rob her of that.

1216
01:14:02,000 --> 01:14:05,280
And and so it's.
Kind of disparaging from a

1217
01:14:05,280 --> 01:14:07,760
Jewish point of view.
To say that she.

1218
01:14:08,120 --> 01:14:10,320
Was she?
She never had children after

1219
01:14:10,320 --> 01:14:12,040
that.
Yeah, it's like saying Jesus was

1220
01:14:12,040 --> 01:14:14,120
never married.
It's the same kind of idea.

1221
01:14:14,680 --> 01:14:17,040
Well, if he's not married, how
could he possibly be a rabbi?

1222
01:14:17,040 --> 01:14:19,600
How's he supposed to have the
wisdom to know how to lead

1223
01:14:19,600 --> 01:14:21,160
people if he doesn't even have a
family?

1224
01:14:21,880 --> 01:14:25,200
That's how you learn to be a
leader is by having a family in

1225
01:14:25,200 --> 01:14:30,120
the first place.
So at any rate, there's some

1226
01:14:30,120 --> 01:14:33,640
interesting things here.
The word for birth is changed

1227
01:14:33,640 --> 01:14:37,000
and and altered in in all sorts
of early manuscripts to make it

1228
01:14:37,000 --> 01:14:42,320
look like it was.
So Jesus wasn't pre existent or

1229
01:14:42,320 --> 01:14:45,680
he was depending on who's
arguing it and that it was a

1230
01:14:45,680 --> 01:14:48,640
birth and not just the origin of
Jesus and things like this.

1231
01:14:49,400 --> 01:14:52,880
All sorts of interesting things
there, but probably too boring

1232
01:14:52,880 --> 01:14:55,960
to it for the podcast.
So I'll just kind of skip

1233
01:14:55,960 --> 01:15:00,560
forward.
I'm not breaking any news here.

1234
01:15:00,760 --> 01:15:02,880
We live in spiritually perilous
times.

1235
01:15:02,880 --> 01:15:05,680
It seems like danger is all
around us or our family

1236
01:15:05,680 --> 01:15:08,800
spiritually all the time.
But our God hasn't left us

1237
01:15:08,800 --> 01:15:11,600
defenseless.
We read in Ephesians chapter 6

1238
01:15:11,600 --> 01:15:15,040
verse 17 and take the helmet of
salvation and the sword of the

1239
01:15:15,040 --> 01:15:16,640
spirit, which is the word of
God.

1240
01:15:16,960 --> 01:15:19,760
So in our spiritual battles, the
scriptures are our sword.

1241
01:15:20,200 --> 01:15:23,360
But just like real swords, not
all Canon of scripture are made

1242
01:15:23,360 --> 01:15:24,960
equal.
You need to make sure that

1243
01:15:24,960 --> 01:15:26,920
you're entering the battle with
the right gear.

1244
01:15:27,120 --> 01:15:29,400
With that thought in mind, Drew
Brownie and others have been

1245
01:15:29,400 --> 01:15:32,920
working on a project to bring
you what is now being called the

1246
01:15:32,920 --> 01:15:34,520
Restored version of the
Scriptures.

1247
01:15:35,240 --> 01:15:37,320
So what is the restored version
of the Scriptures?

1248
01:15:37,520 --> 01:15:40,320
The restored version is the most
accurate, exhaustive,

1249
01:15:40,560 --> 01:15:43,280
comfortable to read, a triple
combination ever made.

1250
01:15:43,560 --> 01:15:46,760
It was designed to honor Joseph
Smith's revelatory words and

1251
01:15:46,760 --> 01:15:50,200
edits through clean and accurate
Joseph approved texts.

1252
01:15:50,440 --> 01:15:53,440
The restored version contains
each book found in the modern

1253
01:15:53,440 --> 01:15:57,240
LDS triple combination that is
the Book of Mormon, the Doctrine

1254
01:15:57,240 --> 01:16:00,240
and Covenants, and the Pearl of
Great Price, except it has

1255
01:16:00,240 --> 01:16:04,440
Joseph's original inspired text
and an easy to read format.

1256
01:16:04,680 --> 01:16:07,160
It restored is the Lectures on
Faith, which were removed in

1257
01:16:07,160 --> 01:16:10,880
1921.
It adds an additional 87

1258
01:16:10,880 --> 01:16:14,800
uncanonized revelations of
Joseph Smith, as well as 33

1259
01:16:14,800 --> 01:16:18,240
revelations received by Brigham
Young, John Taylor and Wilford

1260
01:16:18,240 --> 01:16:20,520
Woodruff and other members of
the Quorum of the 12.

1261
01:16:21,040 --> 01:16:23,800
Each copy of the restored
version is built to last.

1262
01:16:24,000 --> 01:16:27,800
These scriptures look good, feel
comfortable, and are bound to

1263
01:16:27,800 --> 01:16:30,720
last.
The restored version uses cover

1264
01:16:30,720 --> 01:16:34,760
material that is ideal for high
quality books that is both hard

1265
01:16:34,760 --> 01:16:38,040
wearing and soft and should
handle many years of use.

1266
01:16:38,280 --> 01:16:41,160
It has beautiful gold and silver
gilded edges.

1267
01:16:41,480 --> 01:16:45,320
It has sturdy, flexible binding,
making it so the book may

1268
01:16:45,320 --> 01:16:47,720
comfortably and safely be laid
on a desk.

1269
01:16:48,360 --> 01:16:52,560
It has reliable paper that is
very thin, yet sturdy and thick

1270
01:16:52,560 --> 01:16:55,520
enough that it's hard to see
through, and comes with marking

1271
01:16:55,520 --> 01:16:57,800
ribbons so that you never lose
your reading place.

1272
01:16:58,200 --> 01:17:00,560
Each copy of the restored
version are built with the

1273
01:17:00,560 --> 01:17:04,200
intent of lasting for years and
years, just like the LDS

1274
01:17:04,200 --> 01:17:05,840
versions of the triple
combination.

1275
01:17:06,760 --> 01:17:09,360
You might be asking yourself,
what are the benefits of owning

1276
01:17:09,360 --> 01:17:11,720
your own copy of the restored
version of the scriptures?

1277
01:17:12,000 --> 01:17:15,480
Well, how's this for starters?
Number one, the spiritual

1278
01:17:15,480 --> 01:17:17,680
significance.
The restored version contains

1279
01:17:17,760 --> 01:17:21,440
every known revelation of Joseph
Smith as well as those of his

1280
01:17:21,440 --> 01:17:24,360
first successors, the historical
significance.

1281
01:17:24,520 --> 01:17:27,200
While the foundational text for
the Restored Version is the

1282
01:17:27,200 --> 01:17:30,640
latest edition of each book of
Scripture that Joseph approved,

1283
01:17:30,880 --> 01:17:33,960
the Restored Version carefully
documents through footnotes,

1284
01:17:34,240 --> 01:17:38,200
italicized texts, every
substantive change made by

1285
01:17:38,200 --> 01:17:42,040
Joseph or his editing committee,
making the Restored Version a

1286
01:17:42,040 --> 01:17:43,920
truly original set of
Scriptures.

1287
01:17:44,280 --> 01:17:48,160
Formatting Significance The
Restored Version contains no

1288
01:17:48,160 --> 01:17:52,040
columns, no cumbersome Croft
references, and no paragraph

1289
01:17:52,040 --> 01:17:55,560
breaks at every verse just like
the original, and has been

1290
01:17:55,560 --> 01:17:59,120
improved with many verse numbers
in the paragraphs, which provide

1291
01:17:59,120 --> 01:18:02,240
a smooth, seamless reading
experience that makes it easy to

1292
01:18:02,240 --> 01:18:06,120
lose track of time while reading
and makes it easier to see the

1293
01:18:06,120 --> 01:18:09,000
large, larger narrative within
the Scriptures.

1294
01:18:09,440 --> 01:18:13,200
It is also the first original
editions published that can be

1295
01:18:13,200 --> 01:18:16,640
used with study guys since
almost all of the other

1296
01:18:16,640 --> 01:18:18,560
originals don't have verses in
it.

1297
01:18:18,960 --> 01:18:22,720
The restored version offers a
pure offers pure doctrine and

1298
01:18:22,720 --> 01:18:25,240
the most historically
transparent Mormon triple

1299
01:18:25,240 --> 01:18:29,080
combination ever made with a
modern format that provides for

1300
01:18:29,080 --> 01:18:31,240
a smooth, seamless and spiritual
read.

1301
01:18:31,720 --> 01:18:36,720
Now to get your copy today, just
go to www.restoredscriptures.com

1302
01:18:36,960 --> 01:18:39,160
or click the link in this
episode show notes.

1303
01:18:39,240 --> 01:18:43,440
Again, that is
www.restoredscriptures.com or

1304
01:18:43,440 --> 01:18:46,440
click the link in this episode
show notes and order your copy

1305
01:18:46,440 --> 01:18:49,400
today and arm you and your
family with the word of God.

1306
01:18:49,640 --> 01:18:51,560
Now let's get back to our
conversation.

1307
01:18:51,800 --> 01:18:55,680
OK, so let's get back to in
Matthew chapter 2 now.

1308
01:18:57,160 --> 01:19:02,520
And there is so much here.
I, I, I never know how much to

1309
01:19:03,000 --> 01:19:07,280
I, I focus every year when I do
the, the Christmas presents with

1310
01:19:07,280 --> 01:19:11,720
my kids before we open, we go
over the, the nativity and

1311
01:19:11,720 --> 01:19:15,320
usually we do it the night
before and the day and remind

1312
01:19:15,320 --> 01:19:19,600
the kids that the, the practice
of trading presents stemmed with

1313
01:19:19,600 --> 01:19:23,120
the magi bringing old
frankincense and myrrh and that

1314
01:19:23,120 --> 01:19:25,160
they actually showed up about
Christmas time.

1315
01:19:25,200 --> 01:19:27,360
And that appears to be why we do
it at Christmas time.

1316
01:19:27,360 --> 01:19:29,640
And that's not really his birth.
And, you know, we talked about

1317
01:19:29,640 --> 01:19:33,720
some of these things, but there
are a lot of traditions about

1318
01:19:33,720 --> 01:19:35,680
the magi that are really, really
interesting.

1319
01:19:35,680 --> 01:19:39,120
I did a podcast on a review of
the book called Revelation of

1320
01:19:39,120 --> 01:19:45,920
the Magi, which purports to be
an ancient document about the

1321
01:19:45,920 --> 01:19:50,720
magi's trip to come find Jesus
and was was hidden in the

1322
01:19:50,720 --> 01:19:53,640
Vatican for hundreds of years
and that sort of stuff.

1323
01:19:54,040 --> 01:19:56,320
Anyway, interesting book.
I'll allude a little bit to

1324
01:19:56,320 --> 01:20:00,880
what's going on there, but if I
forget, Dave, don't forget to

1325
01:20:00,880 --> 01:20:05,080
remind me about the tradition of
Adam and Eve in the gold

1326
01:20:05,080 --> 01:20:08,400
frankincense and myrrh and where
these magic got it if I don't

1327
01:20:08,400 --> 01:20:10,520
mention that.
Yeah, no, I'm going to remember

1328
01:20:10,520 --> 01:20:11,680
that real.
Quick.

1329
01:20:12,480 --> 01:20:15,720
And if you're going to mention
this somewhere in in in your

1330
01:20:15,720 --> 01:20:17,840
notes there, that's great.
But.

1331
01:20:19,960 --> 01:20:22,000
Who?
Who were the Magi exactly

1332
01:20:22,040 --> 01:20:25,080
according to this this
revelation of the magi that.

1333
01:20:25,080 --> 01:20:29,200
Yeah, so talked about.
So that's, that's scholars have

1334
01:20:29,200 --> 01:20:30,720
said all they're clearly
Persians.

1335
01:20:30,720 --> 01:20:33,120
No, they're not Persians.
They're they're from somewhere

1336
01:20:33,120 --> 01:20:36,280
in the in the ancient Near East,
but they're probably about 50

1337
01:20:36,280 --> 01:20:37,880
miles north of where the
Persians would be.

1338
01:20:38,200 --> 01:20:41,880
They have all these arguments
based on star alignments and all

1339
01:20:41,880 --> 01:20:45,360
this sort of stuff.
The, the book Revelation of the

1340
01:20:45,360 --> 01:20:48,680
Magi, I don't recall.
It seems like it might have

1341
01:20:48,800 --> 01:20:50,760
indicated they were Persian, but
I don't recall.

1342
01:20:52,520 --> 01:20:54,680
Cause frankly, I just don't care
about geography.

1343
01:20:55,840 --> 01:20:58,160
I care about doctrine, you know,
not geography.

1344
01:20:58,520 --> 01:21:04,440
So at at any rate, the, the
tradition in that book basically

1345
01:21:04,440 --> 01:21:06,280
says that there was a sect of
monks.

1346
01:21:07,400 --> 01:21:09,720
And I don't, I don't think they
use that term, but it's

1347
01:21:09,720 --> 01:21:15,760
something like that that had
been given to guard gold,

1348
01:21:15,760 --> 01:21:18,480
frankincense and myrrh that had
been given to Adam and Eve in

1349
01:21:18,480 --> 01:21:22,120
the Garden of Eden.
Possibly might say that I think

1350
01:21:22,120 --> 01:21:26,440
it says that, I'm not positive.
But at any rate they were to

1351
01:21:26,440 --> 01:21:30,080
guard the the gold, frankincense
and myrrh, for the day would

1352
01:21:30,080 --> 01:21:33,720
come when it would be revealed
to them through the heavens that

1353
01:21:33,960 --> 01:21:37,960
that King Messiah had been born
among the Jews, and they were to

1354
01:21:38,200 --> 01:21:41,800
go and find him and deliver
those presents.

1355
01:21:42,760 --> 01:21:44,680
Interesting.
That was their whole.

1356
01:21:45,520 --> 01:21:48,240
That was their whole reason for
being in that.

1357
01:21:48,800 --> 01:21:51,520
For hundreds of years, yeah,
they, they just kept, it was

1358
01:21:51,520 --> 01:21:56,040
like kind of a, a masonry type
idea brotherhood, they're

1359
01:21:56,040 --> 01:21:57,880
keeping the secret alive type
thing.

1360
01:21:58,720 --> 01:22:01,080
And so that's, that's kind of
the, the background of it.

1361
01:22:01,560 --> 01:22:04,240
And the, the main thing that I
recall that was different about

1362
01:22:04,240 --> 01:22:07,320
their story was it acknowledges
that the star was really an

1363
01:22:07,320 --> 01:22:12,400
Angel at certain points.
And you know, there are stars

1364
01:22:12,400 --> 01:22:16,400
that line up at, at a certain
point and, and people have

1365
01:22:16,400 --> 01:22:20,720
argued 1520 different stars
lining up is this is Jesus's

1366
01:22:20,720 --> 01:22:24,640
birth and blah, blah, blah.
But none of them can account for

1367
01:22:24,640 --> 01:22:29,440
some of the words that are used
in describing these, these

1368
01:22:29,440 --> 01:22:31,600
stars.
They, they don't act like stars.

1369
01:22:32,280 --> 01:22:36,560
They, they stop, they move
again, they have somebody follow

1370
01:22:36,560 --> 01:22:40,280
them And you know, they don't
just do natural things.

1371
01:22:40,720 --> 01:22:44,800
So there's been a speculation
that stars often refer to angels

1372
01:22:44,800 --> 01:22:46,560
and maybe this is one of those
situations.

1373
01:22:47,080 --> 01:22:52,360
Revelation the magi seems to
seems to affirm that.

1374
01:22:52,960 --> 01:22:55,600
So rather than mentioning the
Adam and Eve earlier, since

1375
01:22:55,600 --> 01:22:57,640
since since you asked that
question, let me just address

1376
01:22:57,720 --> 01:23:00,280
it.
Might as well just address it

1377
01:23:00,280 --> 01:23:02,400
here because that's part of the
background of the magi.

1378
01:23:02,400 --> 01:23:04,760
Sorry about.
That drew so.

1379
01:23:04,760 --> 01:23:07,120
Not at all.
So Adam and Eve get kicked out

1380
01:23:07,120 --> 01:23:11,560
of the garden and Adam's sad and
Eve is sad and Adam's sick and

1381
01:23:11,560 --> 01:23:14,800
he says go and ask the Angel at
the edge of the garden if you'll

1382
01:23:14,800 --> 01:23:20,040
give me some token out of the
garden to relieve my sadness.

1383
01:23:20,880 --> 01:23:23,560
That's basically the story.
I think this is in the Forgotten

1384
01:23:23,560 --> 01:23:26,400
Books of Adam and Eve, the book
of Adam and Eve or something

1385
01:23:26,400 --> 01:23:28,400
like that.
I'll be doing some podcasts on

1386
01:23:28,400 --> 01:23:30,880
this soon anyway, because I'm
I'm reviewing all that stuff.

1387
01:23:32,800 --> 01:23:39,400
So in this story, I believe it's
Seth goes and he's he's also

1388
01:23:39,400 --> 01:23:42,200
asking for some oil from the
tree of life to heal his father.

1389
01:23:42,200 --> 01:23:46,240
I think that's part of it.
So he goes and he ends up

1390
01:23:46,240 --> 01:23:53,440
getting gifts out of the garden
and the, the, they each are in

1391
01:23:53,440 --> 01:23:56,520
different places, referred to as
different things and they have

1392
01:23:56,520 --> 01:24:01,120
different descriptions, but they
end up putting the gold in their

1393
01:24:01,120 --> 01:24:03,000
cave of treasures is what it's
referred to.

1394
01:24:03,000 --> 01:24:05,200
And there's a apocryphal work
called The Cave of treasures

1395
01:24:05,200 --> 01:24:09,280
that talks about it.
And the gold is luminescent.

1396
01:24:09,400 --> 01:24:15,520
It's shines, it brings light to
them and, and it represents the

1397
01:24:15,520 --> 01:24:20,360
Kingdom of God.
And then the frankincense is

1398
01:24:20,360 --> 01:24:25,600
also found in, in the temple,
temple offerings and so forth,

1399
01:24:26,280 --> 01:24:29,880
and is considered to be a
representative that the Messiah

1400
01:24:29,880 --> 01:24:37,040
will be a priest and a healer.
Sorry, just a priest and a, a

1401
01:24:37,040 --> 01:24:40,920
teacher.
And the myrrh is a, is a

1402
01:24:40,920 --> 01:24:44,080
medicinal.
It's not a herb.

1403
01:24:44,120 --> 01:24:48,920
It's ASAP from a tree, but it's,
it's medicinal and it's actually

1404
01:24:48,920 --> 01:24:51,520
an abortive.
So for those of you who like

1405
01:24:51,920 --> 01:24:53,880
taking it for upset stomach,
don't do that when you're

1406
01:24:53,880 --> 01:24:56,520
pregnant.
I'd know fundamentalist do that

1407
01:24:56,520 --> 01:24:58,960
sometimes.
So key point there.

1408
01:24:58,960 --> 01:25:02,680
It does abort babies cause.
That one's myrrh.

1409
01:25:02,840 --> 01:25:04,400
Or are we still talking about
Frank and.

1410
01:25:04,400 --> 01:25:08,360
Yeah, myrrh is really good for
as an antacid for some people.

1411
01:25:08,360 --> 01:25:11,280
It never works for me, but
apparently it's really good as

1412
01:25:11,280 --> 01:25:13,760
an antacid, but it is an
abortive as well.

1413
01:25:15,000 --> 01:25:18,680
So that was given to him to
represent that the Messiah would

1414
01:25:18,680 --> 01:25:21,480
be a healer.
So I think that's really

1415
01:25:21,480 --> 01:25:25,480
interesting because you've got
prophet, priest and king, you

1416
01:25:25,480 --> 01:25:27,960
know, you've got him in his
priestly office, his kingly

1417
01:25:27,960 --> 01:25:31,800
office and as a healer and as a
teacher among the people.

1418
01:25:32,600 --> 01:25:35,400
So that's the, that's the
symbolism behind gold,

1419
01:25:35,400 --> 01:25:37,120
frankincense and myrrh of the
gifts.

1420
01:25:37,680 --> 01:25:42,720
And those were given to Adam and
Eve after they left the garden

1421
01:25:42,720 --> 01:25:48,840
as kind of a you're, you're not,
you're not abandoned forever.

1422
01:25:48,840 --> 01:25:52,280
I don't hate you.
You know, here's a consolation

1423
01:25:52,280 --> 01:25:54,400
prize for being out of the
garden, having miserable life

1424
01:25:54,400 --> 01:25:58,480
forever.
At any rate, that's I think

1425
01:25:58,480 --> 01:26:00,480
there's some beautiful symbolism
in that.

1426
01:26:01,080 --> 01:26:04,400
Absolutely.
Especially if you're looking at

1427
01:26:04,560 --> 01:26:08,960
higher Mormon ordinances.
Did frankincense come from trees

1428
01:26:08,960 --> 01:26:11,800
as well?
Yeah, frankincense and myrrh are

1429
01:26:11,800 --> 01:26:16,000
both made out of trees that used
to be indigenous to the Holy

1430
01:26:16,000 --> 01:26:20,160
Land is I don't know if you know
how Maple trees work, but for

1431
01:26:20,160 --> 01:26:23,120
it's a similar process.
So for people who are familiar

1432
01:26:23,120 --> 01:26:24,520
with that, I'm going to use that
analogy.

1433
01:26:24,960 --> 01:26:28,040
If you go to a Maple tree at the
right time of the year and you

1434
01:26:28,040 --> 01:26:31,240
tap a little cylinder in it, and
they've got special ones that

1435
01:26:31,240 --> 01:26:32,760
are made now so that they drip,
right.

1436
01:26:33,240 --> 01:26:36,760
If you tap a cylinder into it,
the SAP will come out of that

1437
01:26:36,760 --> 01:26:40,080
cylinder and drip into a bucket
that you put below it.

1438
01:26:40,760 --> 01:26:44,160
And that's how you collect
Maple, you know, in the, in the,

1439
01:26:44,320 --> 01:26:47,880
in the real farms.
I, I remember doing that on my

1440
01:26:47,880 --> 01:26:50,720
mission.
And we, we boil it and then, you

1441
01:26:50,720 --> 01:26:53,160
know, you pour it over snow and
then it makes a kind of a, a

1442
01:26:53,800 --> 01:26:56,400
Carmelie type texture for a
sucker.

1443
01:26:57,760 --> 01:27:00,240
Interesting.
The reason I asked about that is

1444
01:27:00,240 --> 01:27:03,720
I remember when I was in
college, I asked we we'd taken a

1445
01:27:03,720 --> 01:27:08,600
course on on the Middle East and
frankincense was on there and

1446
01:27:08,600 --> 01:27:12,000
like it was.
So it was like the, IT was more

1447
01:27:12,440 --> 01:27:16,400
like more sought after than gold
in a lot of ways and.

1448
01:27:16,880 --> 01:27:18,040
It was.
It was worth more.

1449
01:27:18,480 --> 01:27:20,240
Yep.
They would, they would grow

1450
01:27:20,240 --> 01:27:27,280
these trees on like the side of
cliffs because it was so, so

1451
01:27:27,280 --> 01:27:31,000
sought after and they would
throw like poisonous serpents

1452
01:27:31,640 --> 01:27:33,720
into the trees to like guard
them.

1453
01:27:34,840 --> 01:27:36,600
It was, it was some serious
stuff.

1454
01:27:36,640 --> 01:27:39,280
I, I, I think, I think you're
100% correct, Drew.

1455
01:27:39,840 --> 01:27:43,720
I don't think we take into
account how much those gifts

1456
01:27:43,720 --> 01:27:46,000
were that the magi brought.
Those.

1457
01:27:46,400 --> 01:27:50,520
Were not inexpensive gifts.
Yeah, and, and, and we think,

1458
01:27:50,520 --> 01:27:53,080
you know, 3 magi showed up.
That's, that's not how it came.

1459
01:27:53,080 --> 01:27:55,960
They brought servants.
They had to have a caravan of

1460
01:27:55,960 --> 01:28:01,440
people to armed military escort
of some sort to protect their

1461
01:28:01,440 --> 01:28:04,640
treasure.
This was a big deal when they,

1462
01:28:04,640 --> 01:28:07,040
when they showed up.
This wasn't three guys in

1463
01:28:07,040 --> 01:28:10,880
wearing weird robes.
This was 50 people or 25 people

1464
01:28:10,880 --> 01:28:13,200
or something with a small
caravan.

1465
01:28:14,360 --> 01:28:18,480
So this this app is done
similarly with frankincense and

1466
01:28:18,480 --> 01:28:21,440
myrrh, except for they, they're
not big enough to use those big

1467
01:28:21,440 --> 01:28:23,000
tubes.
So they basically just kind of

1468
01:28:23,000 --> 01:28:26,000
scar the tissue and it drips and
they collect it.

1469
01:28:26,480 --> 01:28:30,080
You can buy frankincense and
myrrh are fairly cheap today.

1470
01:28:30,600 --> 01:28:34,720
And a lot of people that will
suggest that you just burn it

1471
01:28:34,720 --> 01:28:38,680
like incense that produces a
very sharp smell.

1472
01:28:39,120 --> 01:28:41,520
It's not very pleasant for a lot
of people.

1473
01:28:41,520 --> 01:28:45,480
I personally don't like it at
all like that, but there's a

1474
01:28:45,480 --> 01:28:48,240
really nice way that you can get
it and you can, if you order on

1475
01:28:48,240 --> 01:28:50,320
eBay or Amazon, you can get it
by Christmas.

1476
01:28:51,640 --> 01:28:54,040
And we, we, we bought enough
that we, we've been using the

1477
01:28:54,040 --> 01:28:57,320
same batch for 20 years.
You bought a huge bag of it.

1478
01:28:58,400 --> 01:29:01,600
But what you can do is you can
put in a usually use a frying

1479
01:29:01,600 --> 01:29:05,440
pan.
But anyway, just take a small

1480
01:29:05,440 --> 01:29:08,920
frying pan, you fill it with
water up maybe half inch deep

1481
01:29:09,400 --> 01:29:13,480
and then you drop one or two
pellets of and they look like

1482
01:29:13,480 --> 01:29:19,560
it's kind of a resin.
So it like look, the shape can

1483
01:29:19,560 --> 01:29:22,640
be it's very dynamic, but could
look like a Raisin or something

1484
01:29:22,640 --> 01:29:24,600
like that.
But you just drop a pellet in

1485
01:29:24,600 --> 01:29:26,800
there and you don't want it
boiling.

1486
01:29:26,800 --> 01:29:32,080
But just keep it at a hot steamy
temperature and your house will

1487
01:29:32,080 --> 01:29:35,720
smell like frankincense pretty
quickly after 5-10 minutes.

1488
01:29:37,360 --> 01:29:39,800
Personally, I think myrrh smells
a lot better this way.

1489
01:29:41,720 --> 01:29:44,440
So, you know, maybe try both.
But we we do that most

1490
01:29:44,440 --> 01:29:50,760
Christmases and it's a kind of a
fun way to to create a sensation

1491
01:29:50,760 --> 01:29:53,400
for everybody to get in the
holiday and to to think about

1492
01:29:53,400 --> 01:29:54,840
things from a different
perspective.

1493
01:29:54,840 --> 01:29:56,400
And, you know.
That's pretty cool.

1494
01:29:57,040 --> 01:29:59,880
Associate Christmas with
frankincense and myrrh instead

1495
01:29:59,880 --> 01:30:02,760
of cinnamon and pine, which I
also like.

1496
01:30:02,760 --> 01:30:07,440
But I'm saying sure, sure, sure.
Nobody hates cinnamon rolls.

1497
01:30:07,440 --> 01:30:10,040
I mean, come on.
Actually, the British do.

1498
01:30:10,040 --> 01:30:11,600
The British.
A lot of British people hate

1499
01:30:11,720 --> 01:30:12,760
cinnamon.
I don't get it.

1500
01:30:12,960 --> 01:30:14,600
I I.
That's why we fought a war in

1501
01:30:14,600 --> 01:30:17,360
1776, so we don't have to worry
about what they like.

1502
01:30:18,080 --> 01:30:20,840
Yeah, there was actually a
cinnamon based tea for the Tea

1503
01:30:20,840 --> 01:30:22,680
Party.
Right.

1504
01:30:25,320 --> 01:30:31,200
OK, so that's that's kind of the
background story for the the the

1505
01:30:31,200 --> 01:30:33,680
revelation of the Magi.
I don't remember call anything

1506
01:30:33,680 --> 01:30:38,040
groundbreaking in there other
than basically that they, they,

1507
01:30:38,160 --> 01:30:41,560
they knew what to expect.
And when the specific star arose

1508
01:30:41,560 --> 01:30:45,800
in the specific constellation,
it represented the Jews and

1509
01:30:45,800 --> 01:30:48,360
another constellation that was
there where it showed up

1510
01:30:48,360 --> 01:30:52,000
represented a king.
So they recognize this is a king

1511
01:30:52,000 --> 01:30:55,760
that's been born among the Jews.
And then so they packed up and

1512
01:30:55,760 --> 01:30:58,680
got their stuff ready and made
their four month trip or however

1513
01:30:58,680 --> 01:31:04,960
long it took and showed up OK.
In the time of King Herod, after

1514
01:31:05,000 --> 01:31:08,640
Jesus was born in Bethlehem of
Judea, wise men from the east

1515
01:31:08,640 --> 01:31:11,760
came to Jerusalem asking where
the child who had been born the

1516
01:31:11,760 --> 01:31:15,360
Messiah of the Jews, Joseph
changes it, say Messiah.

1517
01:31:15,640 --> 01:31:17,240
The original says the king of
the Jews.

1518
01:31:18,640 --> 01:31:23,120
For we observed his star at its
rising and have come to pay him

1519
01:31:23,120 --> 01:31:25,320
homage.
When does the star arise?

1520
01:31:26,480 --> 01:31:28,560
It all of a sudden, is this a
new star and they're calling

1521
01:31:28,560 --> 01:31:31,800
that a rising or is it a move
movement that they're calling it

1522
01:31:31,800 --> 01:31:34,280
rising?
That's where scholars start

1523
01:31:34,280 --> 01:31:36,160
saying this is not a normal
star.

1524
01:31:36,680 --> 01:31:41,040
And, and again, the mash, I saw
a new star, which could have

1525
01:31:41,040 --> 01:31:43,760
been an alignment of two planets
and made it shine brighter,

1526
01:31:43,760 --> 01:31:46,680
something like that.
But they perceived it as a star.

1527
01:31:47,120 --> 01:31:50,680
But then afterwards it starts
behaving differently.

1528
01:31:51,000 --> 01:31:55,440
So the concept here is to, to
make it a little simpler for,

1529
01:31:55,920 --> 01:32:00,360
for listeners, I guess is a, a
new star appears and that's

1530
01:32:00,360 --> 01:32:03,000
probably, like I said, it's
probably a planetary alignment,

1531
01:32:03,760 --> 01:32:08,120
could have been some sort of
planetary eclipse mix, something

1532
01:32:08,120 --> 01:32:10,320
rather.
But at any rate, there's a big

1533
01:32:10,320 --> 01:32:13,520
flashy star that comes in the
sky and it's in the middle of

1534
01:32:13,520 --> 01:32:17,640
two constellations.
So they know where to go.

1535
01:32:18,720 --> 01:32:23,520
They they know we need to go to
Jerusalem and find the King of

1536
01:32:23,520 --> 01:32:25,360
the Jews and find out
specifically when we get there,

1537
01:32:25,360 --> 01:32:28,040
where it is.
So they follow that star.

1538
01:32:28,960 --> 01:32:30,520
Now, did the star last in the
sky?

1539
01:32:30,520 --> 01:32:32,400
Four months?
Maybe, maybe not.

1540
01:32:32,520 --> 01:32:34,960
It doesn't matter because they
knew what the constellation was

1541
01:32:34,960 --> 01:32:38,880
and they knew how to get
Jerusalem so that the star gave

1542
01:32:38,880 --> 01:32:43,560
them the answer they needed.
But as they get closer, then the

1543
01:32:43,560 --> 01:32:46,840
star starts moving and they
follow the star more

1544
01:32:46,840 --> 01:32:49,240
specifically, that's when they
actually go to Bethlehem.

1545
01:32:51,160 --> 01:32:54,440
So some scholars and a lot of
people looking at this say the

1546
01:32:54,480 --> 01:32:56,920
the wording is really weird.
It's not really a star, It's

1547
01:32:56,920 --> 01:32:59,480
several stars.
And the revelation, the Magi

1548
01:32:59,600 --> 01:33:01,440
really kind of confirms that,
says, yes, there was a

1549
01:33:01,440 --> 01:33:04,360
constellation, there was
original star, but after it

1550
01:33:04,360 --> 01:33:06,960
disappeared, it kind of
converted to an Angel.

1551
01:33:07,360 --> 01:33:09,920
And then an Angel just, you
know, moves along with them and

1552
01:33:09,920 --> 01:33:12,920
they follow the Angel to the
specific spot they go to.

1553
01:33:15,240 --> 01:33:18,040
When King Herod heard of the
child, he was frightened in all

1554
01:33:18,040 --> 01:33:21,240
Jerusalem with him.
Such a funny statement.

1555
01:33:21,640 --> 01:33:23,160
I think most people are probably
familiar.

1556
01:33:23,160 --> 01:33:26,000
The King Herod was a complete
paranoid guy.

1557
01:33:26,000 --> 01:33:28,840
He killed a lot of his own
family and siblings because he

1558
01:33:28,840 --> 01:33:30,840
was worried that they were
trying to take his power.

1559
01:33:31,640 --> 01:33:34,680
So when he's scared and upset
about something the whole city

1560
01:33:34,680 --> 01:33:38,800
is scared and upset about, same
thing and calling together.

1561
01:33:40,040 --> 01:33:44,360
It does flow downhill.
Yeah, calling himself together

1562
01:33:44,360 --> 01:33:46,120
all the chief priests and
scribes to the people, he

1563
01:33:46,120 --> 01:33:48,000
inquired of them where the
Messiah was to be born.

1564
01:33:48,320 --> 01:33:53,360
Now, this is an odd thing and
and this is just ignored by most

1565
01:33:53,360 --> 01:33:54,200
people.
Oh, he didn't.

1566
01:33:54,200 --> 01:33:56,640
He didn't know.
But he was a Jew.

1567
01:33:57,520 --> 01:34:00,640
He should have known this like
all the Jews knew this.

1568
01:34:00,640 --> 01:34:02,840
This was not a hard question.
Where is the Messiah going to be

1569
01:34:02,840 --> 01:34:04,200
born?
Bethlehem.

1570
01:34:04,320 --> 01:34:07,040
That's the answer.
Nobody has to think about it.

1571
01:34:07,040 --> 01:34:10,000
It's not up for debate.
You have to go and find a

1572
01:34:10,000 --> 01:34:11,840
scholar who knows obscure
things.

1573
01:34:12,280 --> 01:34:16,120
Everybody knows this.
So the fact that Sharon doesn't

1574
01:34:16,120 --> 01:34:18,640
know this kind of emphasized the
fact he's not a very good Jew.

1575
01:34:20,000 --> 01:34:21,400
He doesn't know his religion
really well.

1576
01:34:21,400 --> 01:34:24,120
He doesn't care.
He thinks he's got to get all

1577
01:34:24,120 --> 01:34:26,720
these really great scholars
gathered together to get the

1578
01:34:26,720 --> 01:34:28,960
answer for this.
But he's going to ask this

1579
01:34:28,960 --> 01:34:32,120
question.
It's like saying, OK, where do

1580
01:34:32,120 --> 01:34:36,680
you find the story of Nephi?
I don't know, let's go get the

1581
01:34:36,680 --> 01:34:38,800
scholars.
We'll figure it out, right?

1582
01:34:38,800 --> 01:34:40,320
So he he asked them this
question.

1583
01:34:40,320 --> 01:34:43,080
They have to be sitting, sitting
there looking at him like, are

1584
01:34:43,080 --> 01:34:46,240
you serious?
Are we supposed to pretend to

1585
01:34:46,240 --> 01:34:49,960
not know and go consult about
this so he doesn't get offended?

1586
01:34:50,600 --> 01:34:54,000
Or what do we do here?
You have to wonder what those

1587
01:34:54,000 --> 01:34:55,680
guys are thinking.
I'm sure they were better

1588
01:34:55,680 --> 01:34:58,560
politicians than scholars, so
they figured it out.

1589
01:34:58,600 --> 01:35:00,520
But regardless, that's where it
goes.

1590
01:35:02,360 --> 01:35:05,920
So they told him Bethlehem in
Judea, for it's written by the

1591
01:35:05,920 --> 01:35:08,240
prophets, he should be born in
Bethlehem in Judea.

1592
01:35:08,240 --> 01:35:11,120
For thus have they said the word
Lord came unto a saying, and you

1593
01:35:11,120 --> 01:35:14,520
Bethlehem, which lies in Judea,
and they shall be born a Prince.

1594
01:35:14,960 --> 01:35:17,680
OK.
So then he sent them to

1595
01:35:17,680 --> 01:35:20,320
Bethlehem saying, go search
diligently for the child,

1596
01:35:20,320 --> 01:35:21,520
because I want to worship him,
right?

1597
01:35:21,520 --> 01:35:24,240
Because he's lying.
So this is where the Angel

1598
01:35:24,240 --> 01:35:27,680
appears and said Bethlehem is
this way.

1599
01:35:27,680 --> 01:35:31,280
And I'll lead you precisely to
where it is in over The Cave

1600
01:35:31,280 --> 01:35:34,040
where they're they're staying or
the house where they're staying.

1601
01:35:34,960 --> 01:35:40,760
Now, I don't want to go too far
into this, mostly because our,

1602
01:35:40,760 --> 01:35:42,440
our time is probably going to
get too short.

1603
01:35:44,360 --> 01:35:49,840
But when they, when they, they,
they go to Bethlehem, they enter

1604
01:35:49,840 --> 01:35:53,760
the house and they use a
different word here than they

1605
01:35:53,760 --> 01:35:57,320
used before.
And I know some fundamentalists

1606
01:35:57,320 --> 01:35:59,760
are aware of this, but I'm
always surprised how many people

1607
01:35:59,760 --> 01:36:03,720
are not aware.
But in, in, in earlier, you

1608
01:36:03,720 --> 01:36:08,920
know, Jesus is born a baby now
he's born a padion, as I recall,

1609
01:36:08,920 --> 01:36:13,080
is the word.
But the, but the word indicates

1610
01:36:13,200 --> 01:36:17,640
a young child.
And by tradition, this is, you

1611
01:36:17,640 --> 01:36:20,240
know, he's at least gone from
April to Christmas.

1612
01:36:20,800 --> 01:36:24,400
But the word padion suggests
it's a year plus that.

1613
01:36:24,400 --> 01:36:27,840
So he's not quite two years old
year and a half year 2/3

1614
01:36:27,840 --> 01:36:30,240
whatever.
He's a toddler at this page

1615
01:36:30,240 --> 01:36:34,840
space stage.
He's you know, he's toddling

1616
01:36:34,840 --> 01:36:37,120
around.
He's not probably not crawling

1617
01:36:37,120 --> 01:36:40,720
anymore.
You know, when the when the

1618
01:36:42,080 --> 01:36:43,800
shepherds see him, he's in the
Manger.

1619
01:36:43,800 --> 01:36:47,000
Yes, and we'll get to that with
Luke, but at the time the

1620
01:36:47,000 --> 01:36:50,960
manager show it show up, he's a
toddler and he's probably kind

1621
01:36:50,960 --> 01:36:54,240
of aware what's going on.
He might not understand how much

1622
01:36:54,240 --> 01:36:57,120
wealth is being given.
He might not understand what the

1623
01:36:57,520 --> 01:37:00,880
these things are, but he's
seeing these people show up and

1624
01:37:00,880 --> 01:37:05,000
giving him things and kneeling
down before him and worshiping

1625
01:37:05,000 --> 01:37:07,600
him.
The The word is proskinesis,

1626
01:37:07,600 --> 01:37:11,160
which means literally to kneel,
put your hands up and put your

1627
01:37:11,520 --> 01:37:15,120
head and hands to the ground.
That's usually what you see

1628
01:37:15,120 --> 01:37:17,440
Arabs doing.
To this day, Muslims do that.

1629
01:37:17,440 --> 01:37:19,960
Still I.
Take on the word prostate.

1630
01:37:20,680 --> 01:37:24,600
Yeah, so that's process.
Process kinesis or something

1631
01:37:24,600 --> 01:37:27,560
like that.
My Greek is so rusty, I better

1632
01:37:27,560 --> 01:37:32,280
start studying again.
But anyway, that's that's the

1633
01:37:32,280 --> 01:37:33,560
idea.
And so they give him the gold

1634
01:37:33,560 --> 01:37:37,520
Prince, frankincense and myrrh
and pay him homage.

1635
01:37:39,120 --> 01:37:42,720
And then they leave their to
another leave to their country,

1636
01:37:42,720 --> 01:37:47,280
to another Rd.
Not a whole lot to to go there

1637
01:37:47,280 --> 01:37:52,800
besides what we've already said,
other than just to say that, you

1638
01:37:52,800 --> 01:37:57,040
know, Herod was really, really
bad guy and he when he got

1639
01:37:57,040 --> 01:37:58,880
tricked, he goes to kill
everybody.

1640
01:37:58,880 --> 01:38:02,080
We see that more in Luke, so
I'll defer to that.

1641
01:38:02,560 --> 01:38:07,240
There are, however, some ancient
Near Eastern commentaries that I

1642
01:38:07,240 --> 01:38:09,400
wanted to just quote a couple of
them because I thought they're

1643
01:38:09,400 --> 01:38:14,000
astute observation.
King Herod, unaware of a true

1644
01:38:14,000 --> 01:38:18,240
King's birth, unwittingly helps
fulfill prophecy when despised

1645
01:38:18,240 --> 01:38:21,200
peasants and Gentile strangers
correctly interpret the signs of

1646
01:38:21,200 --> 01:38:25,440
the Messiah's birth.
So here, here it is.

1647
01:38:25,520 --> 01:38:30,000
A Jew, King of the Jews, should
be the one you know or or his

1648
01:38:30,000 --> 01:38:31,720
people ought to be the one
receiving the sign.

1649
01:38:31,720 --> 01:38:33,920
The Messiah is born.
But he's not.

1650
01:38:34,440 --> 01:38:37,760
It's strangers, Gentiles who
come from out of town, who are

1651
01:38:37,760 --> 01:38:39,160
the ones that are open to the
message.

1652
01:38:40,240 --> 01:38:44,560
Interesting again.
So this is from the ancient

1653
01:38:44,560 --> 01:38:47,480
Christian Commentary, which is a
collection of the early church

1654
01:38:47,480 --> 01:38:50,000
fathers commentary.
I really like it because it's

1655
01:38:50,200 --> 01:38:54,320
it's got a lot of garbage in it,
but it's a collection

1656
01:38:54,520 --> 01:38:57,400
specifically to verse by verse
of the scriptures.

1657
01:38:57,920 --> 01:39:02,400
And so I can go and read through
10 quotes and find 2 that are

1658
01:39:02,400 --> 01:39:06,760
actually decent without reading
volumes and volumes and volumes

1659
01:39:06,760 --> 01:39:10,680
of their materials, because a
lot of the early church fathers

1660
01:39:10,680 --> 01:39:13,600
taught a lot of weird stuff.
But when they're specifically

1661
01:39:13,600 --> 01:39:17,640
talking about scriptures, you
can go get a volume that shows

1662
01:39:17,640 --> 01:39:20,960
when they talked about specific
scriptures and quotes them there

1663
01:39:21,400 --> 01:39:22,920
so that you can find out what
they had to say.

1664
01:39:22,920 --> 01:39:26,160
This is from there.
Jerusalem remained troubled

1665
01:39:26,160 --> 01:39:29,400
precisely when God was pouring
out his greatest benefits to

1666
01:39:29,400 --> 01:39:31,840
them.
What a what a beautiful

1667
01:39:31,840 --> 01:39:34,360
observation.
How many times in our lives has

1668
01:39:34,360 --> 01:39:37,040
that happened?
Although troubled, they

1669
01:39:37,040 --> 01:39:39,920
nevertheless did not try to
understand what was happening.

1670
01:39:40,400 --> 01:39:41,960
They did not follow the wise
men.

1671
01:39:43,600 --> 01:39:46,960
So anyway, some interesting
observations.

1672
01:39:47,360 --> 01:39:48,880
I, I really like that first
part.

1673
01:39:48,880 --> 01:39:52,040
And I think it's an important
detail that we often gloss over.

1674
01:39:52,040 --> 01:39:55,120
And I want to, I want to mention
I've been studying samurai a lot

1675
01:39:55,120 --> 01:39:56,920
and they're kind of stuck in my
head.

1676
01:39:57,560 --> 01:40:02,680
And there's a story of this one
great sword maker.

1677
01:40:03,240 --> 01:40:07,720
And swordsmith and he he was
getting to the end of finishing

1678
01:40:07,720 --> 01:40:12,520
this great fabulous sword and he
is apprentice who was dinking

1679
01:40:12,520 --> 01:40:16,080
around like kids do, spilt some
sand on it.

1680
01:40:17,240 --> 01:40:20,840
And the the master swordsmith is
ticked off.

1681
01:40:20,840 --> 01:40:25,120
He's really, really upset.
Probably beat up his apprentice.

1682
01:40:25,160 --> 01:40:28,200
I don't know.
But anyway, he's he goes back,

1683
01:40:28,200 --> 01:40:30,960
he's trying to beat all the sand
out of it and it's Polish it and

1684
01:40:30,960 --> 01:40:36,320
do everything.
He can't get rid of it and he he

1685
01:40:36,360 --> 01:40:38,320
it.
Nevertheless, it's a great

1686
01:40:38,320 --> 01:40:39,360
sword.
It works well.

1687
01:40:39,360 --> 01:40:43,520
It's just got this aesthetic
problem and it had this strange

1688
01:40:45,400 --> 01:40:48,000
side effect nobody expected.
And that's what that it sung,

1689
01:40:49,120 --> 01:40:52,680
meaning that whenever it swung
it, it made whistling type

1690
01:40:52,680 --> 01:40:54,760
sounds and they were pleasant to
hear.

1691
01:40:55,920 --> 01:41:01,800
And so as it turned out, these
these guys were really pleased

1692
01:41:01,800 --> 01:41:04,520
with the singing sword.
And this is a true story.

1693
01:41:04,560 --> 01:41:08,000
This is not a fake story.
So they're, you know, they're

1694
01:41:08,000 --> 01:41:09,960
showing all their friends.
Look, when I do a downward

1695
01:41:09,960 --> 01:41:12,120
stroke, it makes this sound.
When I do a side struck it as

1696
01:41:12,120 --> 01:41:15,560
this sound.
And if I do it incorrectly, it

1697
01:41:15,560 --> 01:41:17,600
makes the wrong sound.
You know, they're telling all

1698
01:41:17,600 --> 01:41:20,840
these things and these other
guys are this, this is amazing.

1699
01:41:20,840 --> 01:41:24,440
We all want once they all order
a singing sword from this sword

1700
01:41:24,440 --> 01:41:28,720
Smith.
But the problem is no matter how

1701
01:41:28,720 --> 01:41:31,960
hard he tries for decades, he's
never able to make another

1702
01:41:31,960 --> 01:41:35,120
singing sword.
So there's some specific about

1703
01:41:35,120 --> 01:41:38,640
the composition of the sand, the
heat of it at the time that it

1704
01:41:38,680 --> 01:41:41,080
fell on it, and he never could
replicate it.

1705
01:41:41,960 --> 01:41:44,960
But they started using the sword
to train people because if you

1706
01:41:45,120 --> 01:41:49,160
did a stroke improperly made the
wrong sound so you can swing

1707
01:41:49,160 --> 01:41:51,640
until you get the right sound.
And you always knew it was

1708
01:41:51,640 --> 01:41:53,960
perfect without feedback from
your sensei.

1709
01:41:54,840 --> 01:41:57,040
And so it became a very coveted
sword.

1710
01:41:57,600 --> 01:42:00,800
I mentioned that because it's he
says Jerusalem remained troubled

1711
01:42:00,920 --> 01:42:04,200
sword Smith is pissed because
the Santa got spilled on it

1712
01:42:04,720 --> 01:42:07,960
precisely when God was pouring
out his greatest benefits upon

1713
01:42:07,960 --> 01:42:10,000
them.
You know, so this turned out to

1714
01:42:10,000 --> 01:42:12,280
be.
This I see the connection huge.

1715
01:42:13,080 --> 01:42:16,480
You know, beneficial thing for
the the sword Smith that could

1716
01:42:16,480 --> 01:42:18,120
have been even bigger if he
would have figured it out.

1717
01:42:19,760 --> 01:42:22,960
But you know, I've seen that
kind of thing happened in a lot

1718
01:42:22,960 --> 01:42:26,440
of famous people's stories made
this big mistake in the boom.

1719
01:42:26,440 --> 01:42:29,920
It turned out to be this
awesome, awesome thing I.

1720
01:42:30,000 --> 01:42:33,160
Think that is such a fabulous
take away that I think there's

1721
01:42:33,160 --> 01:42:39,960
so many times that we look at
events that happen and we're

1722
01:42:39,960 --> 01:42:45,640
quick to label them good or bad.
And the longer I'm alive, the

1723
01:42:45,640 --> 01:42:49,320
more I realize that that's maybe
not a correct connotation for

1724
01:42:49,320 --> 01:42:53,200
our experiences.
They just are what what

1725
01:42:53,200 --> 01:42:55,680
determines if they're good or
bad is how we're going to use

1726
01:42:55,680 --> 01:42:59,680
them.
And I think, I think that's one

1727
01:42:59,680 --> 01:43:02,680
of those those I think that's a
beautiful thing that's pointed

1728
01:43:02,680 --> 01:43:06,520
out there.
Yeah, I, I, you know, they come

1729
01:43:06,520 --> 01:43:09,280
up with a lot of really weird
conclusions and strange sayings

1730
01:43:09,280 --> 01:43:12,720
and, and just so off doctrinally
that they're not worth looking

1731
01:43:12,720 --> 01:43:14,480
at.
But then they have these really

1732
01:43:14,480 --> 01:43:18,960
profound insights on details
that we never hear.

1733
01:43:20,080 --> 01:43:22,240
It's a, it's a beautiful thing.
This is, This is why I've got,

1734
01:43:22,240 --> 01:43:24,080
I've had this for the last 20
years.

1735
01:43:24,080 --> 01:43:30,600
I've been very slowly writing a
commentary of a survey of 2000

1736
01:43:30,600 --> 01:43:34,560
years of Christian commentary
and about the four gospels and,

1737
01:43:35,000 --> 01:43:36,600
and what Mormons can get from
it.

1738
01:43:36,600 --> 01:43:39,760
Because there's a lot of stuff
teaching Mormonism that was

1739
01:43:39,760 --> 01:43:44,840
later shunned and written out of
the books early on that we have.

1740
01:43:44,880 --> 01:43:48,200
And there's also just really
great insights into the original

1741
01:43:48,200 --> 01:43:53,160
language and, and insights that
we just would never have because

1742
01:43:53,160 --> 01:43:56,280
we were too far removed from the
people writing.

1743
01:43:56,640 --> 01:43:59,920
So really cool stuff.
OK, Pagdon.

1744
01:44:00,680 --> 01:44:02,760
Pagdon.
That's the word for small child.

1745
01:44:02,760 --> 01:44:07,440
I want to emphasize that again,
just briefly, because Joseph

1746
01:44:07,440 --> 01:44:11,920
stayed in Bethlehem for probably
a year and a half at least.

1747
01:44:11,960 --> 01:44:14,440
We don't know how long for sure,
roughly that amount of time.

1748
01:44:15,200 --> 01:44:16,760
That's important for two
reasons.

1749
01:44:17,320 --> 01:44:22,960
One is, remember in Nazareth,
everybody knows the shame of

1750
01:44:22,960 --> 01:44:25,560
Joseph.
So they're moving out of this

1751
01:44:25,560 --> 01:44:29,400
tiny little town and going down
to another tiny town outside of

1752
01:44:29,400 --> 01:44:31,320
Jerusalem.
It's not super tiny, but not

1753
01:44:31,320 --> 01:44:33,480
very big.
It's called Bethlehem.

1754
01:44:34,040 --> 01:44:38,040
He's staying away from the the
public shame, right?

1755
01:44:38,040 --> 01:44:42,520
He's made some distance here
possibly is a landowner here in

1756
01:44:42,520 --> 01:44:45,920
jurors in Bethlehem.
That's something we're not

1757
01:44:45,920 --> 01:44:48,800
totally certain about, but he
stays there for a year and a

1758
01:44:48,800 --> 01:44:50,680
half.
And I mentioned that because

1759
01:44:50,880 --> 01:44:53,040
some of the commentators,
especially Kenneth Bailey, have

1760
01:44:53,040 --> 01:44:57,880
noted we have this idea from the
nativity stories that we watch

1761
01:44:57,880 --> 01:45:01,280
every year that Joseph's this
really crappy husband.

1762
01:45:02,360 --> 01:45:05,560
He could have gone without Mary
to the tax thing.

1763
01:45:05,960 --> 01:45:09,120
He didn't need her there.
He could have not waited until

1764
01:45:09,120 --> 01:45:11,320
she was going to have a baby on
the on the donkey.

1765
01:45:11,520 --> 01:45:16,040
He could have, you know, gone
two months earlier or something

1766
01:45:16,040 --> 01:45:19,120
so that she wasn't in this
desperate situation begging for

1767
01:45:19,720 --> 01:45:22,440
a room at the end last minute
and, you know, about ready to

1768
01:45:22,440 --> 01:45:27,440
have a baby pop out.
And then, you know, he, he as

1769
01:45:27,680 --> 01:45:29,800
soon as that's over, he decides
to move her again.

1770
01:45:30,280 --> 01:45:34,480
That's kind of the perspective
we get when we read the Nativity

1771
01:45:34,480 --> 01:45:37,160
and when, when kids listen to
it, that's kind of what they

1772
01:45:37,160 --> 01:45:40,440
hear is, you know, this
emergency situation.

1773
01:45:41,040 --> 01:45:42,560
But that's not what happened at
all.

1774
01:45:44,040 --> 01:45:48,160
Joseph apparently had pre
planned where he was going to go

1775
01:45:48,160 --> 01:45:50,880
for Mary.
They stayed there for a year and

1776
01:45:50,880 --> 01:45:56,000
a half so that she had time to
recover and relax and have

1777
01:45:56,000 --> 01:46:00,280
vacation, you know, visit with
relatives and so forth before

1778
01:46:00,280 --> 01:46:02,120
moving on to wherever they moved
on to.

1779
01:46:02,120 --> 01:46:08,240
We'll get a little bit more into
that in a minute, but I I think

1780
01:46:08,240 --> 01:46:13,160
that that mentioning that he's a
Pydeon, a young child and not a

1781
01:46:13,160 --> 01:46:15,400
baby anymore is really, really
important.

1782
01:46:16,200 --> 01:46:17,760
I'm going to skip the slide to
Egypt stuff.

1783
01:46:18,200 --> 01:46:20,040
Go ahead.
Can can I ask a quick question

1784
01:46:20,040 --> 01:46:25,000
real here?
So we're, we're often shown that

1785
01:46:25,400 --> 01:46:29,400
either because of we, we read
the Gospels and we have a

1786
01:46:29,400 --> 01:46:31,760
certain idea in our minds, or
maybe it's something that's

1787
01:46:31,760 --> 01:46:35,320
exhibited for us in media and
that sort of thing.

1788
01:46:35,880 --> 01:46:40,120
It, it feels like the event
where Herod orders the execution

1789
01:46:40,120 --> 01:46:44,960
of all the, the male children is
like a one night kind of a thing

1790
01:46:45,480 --> 01:46:47,320
here.
It doesn't necessarily seem to

1791
01:46:47,320 --> 01:46:51,240
be the case, right?
Because if if Herod's out

1792
01:46:51,240 --> 01:46:56,360
hunting, that means that Mary
and Joseph have to lay somewhat

1793
01:46:56,360 --> 01:46:59,360
low, correct?
Yes, yeah.

1794
01:46:59,360 --> 01:47:01,760
OK.
Well, and also, you know, the

1795
01:47:01,760 --> 01:47:04,240
Magi stop.
He's, he's already, you know,

1796
01:47:04,280 --> 01:47:08,400
the Herod kills everybody under
2, which suggests that Jesus is

1797
01:47:08,400 --> 01:47:11,440
under 2.
They don't know exactly when he

1798
01:47:11,440 --> 01:47:14,520
was born.
They know when the star came and

1799
01:47:14,520 --> 01:47:16,640
it was about a year and 2/3
before.

1800
01:47:16,960 --> 01:47:18,880
So he says, all right, baby's
under 2, kill him.

1801
01:47:19,280 --> 01:47:21,880
That's what we're going to do.
Incidentally, the slaughter of

1802
01:47:21,880 --> 01:47:24,800
the innocents was probably only
10 to 30 children.

1803
01:47:25,200 --> 01:47:28,120
And I don't, I don't want to say
only like it's not a big deal,

1804
01:47:28,720 --> 01:47:31,640
but a lot of times people have
this idea that are hundreds of

1805
01:47:31,640 --> 01:47:33,520
kids and he's going through all
these different towns.

1806
01:47:34,080 --> 01:47:36,240
There weren't a lot of towns in
that area.

1807
01:47:36,240 --> 01:47:37,640
We know how many children they
had.

1808
01:47:37,640 --> 01:47:41,040
We know about roughly their
ages, not really well.

1809
01:47:41,440 --> 01:47:45,240
So we could kind of surmise 10
to 30 kids were executed.

1810
01:47:45,280 --> 01:47:51,160
The boys, like you said, so, so
and, and it's not recorded

1811
01:47:51,160 --> 01:47:54,240
anywhere else in history shows
up in in Matthew and that's it.

1812
01:47:54,600 --> 01:47:56,760
We don't have any other count of
this happening.

1813
01:47:57,560 --> 01:48:01,160
But you know, from Herod's
perspective in his brutal take

1814
01:48:01,160 --> 01:48:05,760
out, killing 10 to 30 kids is
just not that big of a bookmark

1815
01:48:05,760 --> 01:48:09,000
in history.
He's killing people all the

1816
01:48:09,000 --> 01:48:10,480
time.
He's slaughtering people all the

1817
01:48:10,480 --> 01:48:13,360
time.
This is particularly nasty to do

1818
01:48:13,360 --> 01:48:17,600
it to babies.
But it's, it's it, you know, it

1819
01:48:17,600 --> 01:48:19,760
wasn't a big enough event that
it caught people's attention

1820
01:48:19,760 --> 01:48:23,320
because it's a tiny little town
and or tiny little towns around

1821
01:48:23,320 --> 01:48:25,560
the tiny little town, you know,
a certain environment that he

1822
01:48:25,560 --> 01:48:30,480
went to try and kill all of them
at any rate.

1823
01:48:33,640 --> 01:48:36,480
OK, so let's jump to, to Luke's
nativity.

1824
01:48:37,520 --> 01:48:40,680
So, and, and we're skipping a
little bit of, of Matthew's

1825
01:48:40,680 --> 01:48:43,800
story, but none, none of it's
super, super pertinent.

1826
01:48:44,960 --> 01:48:48,200
But there is really, really big
stuff in, in Luke.

1827
01:48:49,760 --> 01:48:52,280
Luke too, in those days of
decree went out for Emperor

1828
01:48:52,280 --> 01:48:55,120
Augustus that all his empire
should be registered now

1829
01:48:55,120 --> 01:48:58,280
interesting here a lot of
commentaries, early commentaries

1830
01:48:58,280 --> 01:49:01,840
especially have noticed that
Emperor Augustus was that he

1831
01:49:01,840 --> 01:49:05,520
brought a proud bought about
brought about Pax Ramona, right.

1832
01:49:05,880 --> 01:49:09,360
It was he's the one that made
peace in the Roman Empire.

1833
01:49:10,680 --> 01:49:14,840
And so he's establishing this
era of peace that allows

1834
01:49:14,840 --> 01:49:18,840
Christianity to thrive.
It, you know, without that, it's

1835
01:49:18,840 --> 01:49:22,280
it's not going to be able to if
people, if people who are

1836
01:49:22,280 --> 01:49:24,800
restricted from moving or
migrating, going from place to

1837
01:49:24,800 --> 01:49:27,240
place, you can't spread the word
as well.

1838
01:49:27,840 --> 01:49:30,520
And it was his peaceful reign
that allowed that to a great

1839
01:49:30,520 --> 01:49:34,600
extent.
That said, there's a lot of bad

1840
01:49:34,600 --> 01:49:39,960
stuff going on in Jerusalem
under Herod, but more globally

1841
01:49:39,960 --> 01:49:41,560
speaking, there was there was
good stuff.

1842
01:49:42,000 --> 01:49:44,520
OK.
And he said that all his empire

1843
01:49:44,520 --> 01:49:46,680
should be registered.
Now that's Joseph Smith's word

1844
01:49:46,680 --> 01:49:50,560
to say his empire.
You know, the, the, the world

1845
01:49:50,560 --> 01:49:53,200
and you know, those types of
words are used in the original

1846
01:49:54,840 --> 01:50:01,400
and you know, those are the
types of words that we read and

1847
01:50:01,400 --> 01:50:05,480
we don't necessarily know what
they mean because they, they've

1848
01:50:05,480 --> 01:50:08,080
got a specialized meaning back
there that the word translated

1849
01:50:08,080 --> 01:50:12,720
here by Joseph's empire, the
original means the inhabited

1850
01:50:12,720 --> 01:50:16,240
world.
You know, they, they didn't

1851
01:50:16,240 --> 01:50:20,160
recognize that there were other
places that existed.

1852
01:50:20,640 --> 01:50:22,800
And so when they say four
corners of the Earth, for

1853
01:50:22,800 --> 01:50:25,680
instance, that might have been
the four corners that they were

1854
01:50:25,680 --> 01:50:30,280
aware of.
And anecdotally, there's a funny

1855
01:50:30,280 --> 01:50:33,520
story.
I want to say it was King

1856
01:50:33,520 --> 01:50:37,920
Alexander the Great.
I could be wrong, so don't quote

1857
01:50:37,920 --> 01:50:40,840
me on this, but I'm pretty sure
it was King Alexander the Great

1858
01:50:40,840 --> 01:50:44,440
because he, he had this ID, he
was going to conquer everything,

1859
01:50:44,440 --> 01:50:46,240
the whole world, everything that
existed.

1860
01:50:46,240 --> 01:50:48,760
That was his goal.
So he's going along and he's

1861
01:50:48,760 --> 01:50:50,360
conquering all these different
people.

1862
01:50:51,680 --> 01:50:54,480
And then he invades a part of
India.

1863
01:50:55,120 --> 01:50:58,040
And in India they're fighting
with elephants that are armored

1864
01:50:58,560 --> 01:51:02,800
and and they just decimate
Alexander's army.

1865
01:51:04,080 --> 01:51:08,240
And so he declares that that's
outside of the known world and

1866
01:51:08,240 --> 01:51:09,560
doesn't count as part of the
world.

1867
01:51:09,560 --> 01:51:12,040
He's conquered the whole world.
He goes back home.

1868
01:51:14,480 --> 01:51:15,360
Oh, how many?
Confessionals.

1869
01:51:16,360 --> 01:51:18,560
Coaching jobs could have been
saved if you could have just

1870
01:51:18,560 --> 01:51:20,040
said that didn't count as a
game.

1871
01:51:20,600 --> 01:51:24,680
Right, exactly.
So I just say that to give you

1872
01:51:24,680 --> 01:51:28,400
the this, this, this attitude,
this concept in the ancient

1873
01:51:28,400 --> 01:51:31,440
world, they didn't think of a
globe.

1874
01:51:31,680 --> 01:51:34,160
They didn't think of, you know,
there are people probably on the

1875
01:51:34,160 --> 01:51:36,120
other side of this Earth that
are in the millions and have

1876
01:51:36,120 --> 01:51:39,480
this great technology.
They they're just like this as

1877
01:51:39,480 --> 01:51:41,960
far as anybody that we have
record has ever travelled.

1878
01:51:42,400 --> 01:51:43,800
And this is what we know about
it.

1879
01:51:43,960 --> 01:51:49,000
That's the known world and you
know, that didn't include China,

1880
01:51:49,000 --> 01:51:52,360
it didn't include Russia, it
didn't, it certainly didn't

1881
01:51:52,360 --> 01:51:56,440
include Australia.
So their their mentality is just

1882
01:51:56,440 --> 01:51:59,480
a little bit different.
So but so it says the known

1883
01:51:59,480 --> 01:52:01,400
world, but Joseph translates an
empire.

1884
01:52:01,400 --> 01:52:03,320
Probably other places might as
well.

1885
01:52:03,320 --> 01:52:05,280
I don't know because that's
really what it meant.

1886
01:52:06,760 --> 01:52:10,880
Now it says this was the first
registration and was while

1887
01:52:10,880 --> 01:52:15,240
Quinarius was governor of Syria.
Now we're told it was the

1888
01:52:15,240 --> 01:52:18,840
taxation in the King James
Version, and that's got stuck in

1889
01:52:18,840 --> 01:52:21,200
everybody's mind.
They're they came to Jerusalem

1890
01:52:21,200 --> 01:52:23,000
to be taxed or Bethlehem to be
taxed.

1891
01:52:23,640 --> 01:52:26,000
It we don't know that it was a
tax.

1892
01:52:26,280 --> 01:52:30,920
It's more likely that it was a
census governor Querianius was

1893
01:52:30,920 --> 01:52:32,760
actually governor twice of
Syria.

1894
01:52:33,120 --> 01:52:38,000
He started a census about 5 or 6
BC and then finished it about

1895
01:52:38,000 --> 01:52:42,160
six years later.
So could this could be referring

1896
01:52:42,160 --> 01:52:44,520
to him finishing the first
census?

1897
01:52:45,080 --> 01:52:48,440
And this is just when Joseph
gets notified because he wasn't

1898
01:52:48,440 --> 01:52:51,120
governor the whole time he's
governor, lost his job, came

1899
01:52:51,120 --> 01:52:55,000
back, did it again.
So we don't know some of those

1900
01:52:55,000 --> 01:52:57,680
details, but the word is not
clear.

1901
01:52:58,160 --> 01:53:01,200
It could have been a taxation.
If it was, we have a pretty good

1902
01:53:01,200 --> 01:53:05,000
idea it was a land tax.
And that's significant for a

1903
01:53:05,000 --> 01:53:08,040
couple reasons.
So first of all, we don't have

1904
01:53:08,080 --> 01:53:15,920
any record in other places of of
a census being made where they

1905
01:53:15,920 --> 01:53:19,440
catered the way that looks like
the catering to the Jews here.

1906
01:53:19,920 --> 01:53:22,040
When they did a census, it was
just go out, get all the

1907
01:53:22,040 --> 01:53:23,480
information, bring it back to
me.

1908
01:53:23,960 --> 01:53:28,480
The Jews locally had this kind
of tradition that they would go

1909
01:53:28,480 --> 01:53:31,800
to the place where they're
supposed to be counted and then

1910
01:53:31,800 --> 01:53:35,480
go back.
Just really invasive.

1911
01:53:37,000 --> 01:53:39,960
It's a big deal.
You know, imagine if you're

1912
01:53:39,960 --> 01:53:42,480
like, OK, Drew, go back to your
hometown to get tax.

1913
01:53:42,480 --> 01:53:44,680
I'm like, Dang, I got to make a
trip to Washington.

1914
01:53:45,280 --> 01:53:48,160
Let's see how like a 1518 hour
drive for me.

1915
01:53:48,160 --> 01:53:51,320
I hate driving.
It's a big deal, you know, And

1916
01:53:52,840 --> 01:53:55,200
so, but they never did that
before.

1917
01:53:55,200 --> 01:53:58,200
But that was the kind of thing
that the Jews did and it kind of

1918
01:53:58,200 --> 01:54:00,960
catered to their culture.
So it's interesting that we have

1919
01:54:00,960 --> 01:54:04,560
this account because it suggests
they're trying to really work

1920
01:54:04,560 --> 01:54:08,640
with the Jews to so that they're
not really ticked off about the

1921
01:54:08,640 --> 01:54:10,760
census because why are you doing
the census?

1922
01:54:11,320 --> 01:54:16,720
Because you're going to tax them
that, you know, it may not be a

1923
01:54:16,720 --> 01:54:19,120
tax, but it's, you know, you
call it, we're counting heads,

1924
01:54:19,120 --> 01:54:21,440
but really, you know that if you
lie your head to be counted,

1925
01:54:21,440 --> 01:54:23,480
they're going to come back later
and say you're a citizen, you

1926
01:54:23,480 --> 01:54:28,920
owe us money.
So at any rate, So again, I just

1927
01:54:28,920 --> 01:54:31,960
want to emphasize, we don't know
for sure it was a census or

1928
01:54:32,440 --> 01:54:36,520
there was not a tax, but we're
pretty confident that it was

1929
01:54:36,520 --> 01:54:43,040
likely a census, not a taxation.
If it was a taxation, this

1930
01:54:44,320 --> 01:54:47,920
introduces a couple oddities
into the story.

1931
01:54:48,880 --> 01:54:51,640
And it's very possible that it
was a tax.

1932
01:54:51,800 --> 01:54:55,040
But if it was, it was a land
tax, which means Joseph was a

1933
01:54:55,040 --> 01:54:58,080
land holder, which usually would
mean that he was very wealthy

1934
01:54:58,080 --> 01:55:03,520
and had plenty of spare cash.
But he pays the poor man's price

1935
01:55:03,880 --> 01:55:08,280
for a first born son.
So, you know, sometimes you can

1936
01:55:08,280 --> 01:55:12,720
have big land and not and not
and be cash poor.

1937
01:55:13,200 --> 01:55:16,160
Liquidity is a problem for a lot
of land holders today.

1938
01:55:16,680 --> 01:55:19,320
But back in his day it was less
of an issue.

1939
01:55:19,320 --> 01:55:21,560
And I want to emphasize less
because it wasn't always the

1940
01:55:21,560 --> 01:55:24,200
case.
But usually if you had land, you

1941
01:55:24,200 --> 01:55:26,880
had people working it, you had
people making money off of it.

1942
01:55:26,920 --> 01:55:29,200
You were they were paid from
their labor and then you had

1943
01:55:29,200 --> 01:55:31,960
extra and so you always had
extra cash.

1944
01:55:32,640 --> 01:55:35,000
That doesn't appear to be what
was going on with Joseph.

1945
01:55:35,400 --> 01:55:39,280
So that's a, an indicator that
it wasn't a land tax.

1946
01:55:40,040 --> 01:55:43,800
But sorry, again, it is possible
that it was a land tax and he

1947
01:55:43,800 --> 01:55:46,760
just bought something and now he
was cash poor because he

1948
01:55:46,760 --> 01:55:49,640
overextended himself, wasn't
expecting to get married.

1949
01:55:50,240 --> 01:55:53,160
And now here he is with, you
know, this, this challenge.

1950
01:55:53,760 --> 01:55:58,080
Now, if that's the case,
however, and if this is a land

1951
01:55:58,080 --> 01:56:01,880
tax, then why is he staying with
somebody besides his own family?

1952
01:56:03,440 --> 01:56:06,720
That's a big question.
And especially if we believe

1953
01:56:06,720 --> 01:56:10,400
that he was already married and
had another wife or two in the

1954
01:56:10,400 --> 01:56:14,080
vicinity, we wouldn't expect him
to be staying with friends or

1955
01:56:14,080 --> 01:56:18,280
relatives for a year and a half
for the magi to show up and

1956
01:56:18,280 --> 01:56:21,600
visit him.
Now, it doesn't say precisely

1957
01:56:21,600 --> 01:56:24,800
that he was with friends or
family at that year and a half

1958
01:56:24,800 --> 01:56:27,120
stage doesn't really tell us at
all.

1959
01:56:27,120 --> 01:56:31,680
So it's possible this is just at
his home where they showed up,

1960
01:56:32,720 --> 01:56:35,040
but they're they're little
details about the story that

1961
01:56:35,040 --> 01:56:36,520
suggests that probably wasn't
the case.

1962
01:56:36,520 --> 01:56:39,280
So anyway, I'm just throwing out
there that there's some little

1963
01:56:39,280 --> 01:56:44,920
details that are happening here
that are interesting and leave

1964
01:56:44,920 --> 01:56:47,200
us uncertain what was really
going on.

1965
01:56:49,320 --> 01:56:53,000
But, you know, for people who
haven't lived plural marriage,

1966
01:56:53,320 --> 01:56:58,200
you don't understand how cash
poor you can get really fast if

1967
01:56:58,200 --> 01:57:02,480
you're a landholder or not.
And so that's an interesting

1968
01:57:02,480 --> 01:57:04,040
detail, too.
A lot of commentators are

1969
01:57:04,040 --> 01:57:06,200
saying, well, you know, if he's
a landowner, he's got all this

1970
01:57:06,200 --> 01:57:08,960
extra cash.
And I'm thinking, man, I

1971
01:57:08,960 --> 01:57:12,800
remember making six figures and
I only had two wives, and I was

1972
01:57:12,800 --> 01:57:15,200
really struggling sometimes
against meat.

1973
01:57:16,480 --> 01:57:17,960
It just was never enough to go
around.

1974
01:57:18,440 --> 01:57:21,600
Absolutely.
So at any rate, there's there's

1975
01:57:21,600 --> 01:57:25,000
a number of things to speculate
and think about there, but we

1976
01:57:25,000 --> 01:57:26,680
really don't know.
So I'm just going to move on.

1977
01:57:27,440 --> 01:57:30,960
Joseph also went from the town
of Nazareth in Galilee to Judea

1978
01:57:30,960 --> 01:57:34,120
to the city of David had called
Bethlehem because he was

1979
01:57:34,120 --> 01:57:36,200
descended from the house and
family of David.

1980
01:57:36,840 --> 01:57:38,840
He went to be registered with
Mary.

1981
01:57:39,200 --> 01:57:41,320
OK, let's for right now, let's
just stop there.

1982
01:57:42,640 --> 01:57:45,760
Here's the challenge.
There's two things going on here

1983
01:57:45,760 --> 01:57:49,480
that are usually ignored.
He's from the House of David.

1984
01:57:49,520 --> 01:57:53,200
What does that tell you?
He's royalty.

1985
01:57:53,560 --> 01:57:58,120
He's descendant of royalty.
That's a big deal in the Near

1986
01:57:58,120 --> 01:58:00,840
Near East.
If if I came to you and showed

1987
01:58:00,840 --> 01:58:02,680
up at your house and say, hey,
I'm Prince of Wales, you'd be

1988
01:58:02,680 --> 01:58:05,400
like, oh, where's Wales?
And that like part of Great

1989
01:58:05,400 --> 01:58:08,360
Britain or something.
Nobody cares.

1990
01:58:08,760 --> 01:58:11,000
You know, it's like you were
born to it.

1991
01:58:11,000 --> 01:58:13,440
No, I don't respect you didn't
make your own man.

1992
01:58:13,440 --> 01:58:14,920
You just were born to.
We don't care.

1993
01:58:15,800 --> 01:58:18,600
But in their culture, it was a
really, really big deal if I

1994
01:58:18,600 --> 01:58:23,040
showed up at your house or
you're in and said, hey, I'm a

1995
01:58:23,400 --> 01:58:25,840
descendant of David.
I need a place to stay.

1996
01:58:26,760 --> 01:58:30,920
It would bring shame upon you
and your community if you said

1997
01:58:30,920 --> 01:58:34,360
no to me.
That's a big deal to realize and

1998
01:58:34,360 --> 01:58:37,720
understand.
So when when Joseph shows up in

1999
01:58:37,720 --> 01:58:42,720
Bethlehem and says there's no
room in the end, we've we've got

2000
01:58:42,720 --> 01:58:46,240
to look at some cultural context
here and say this isn't making

2001
01:58:46,240 --> 01:58:49,160
sense.
So we we need to take a step

2002
01:58:49,160 --> 01:58:51,560
back and understand something's
going here.

2003
01:58:51,920 --> 01:58:54,720
Did you get those links that I
sent you in time to to drop for

2004
01:58:54,720 --> 01:58:57,720
the podcast?
Yes, let me pull those up.

2005
01:58:58,040 --> 01:59:00,920
OK, so I'm.
Going to refer to those pictures

2006
01:59:00,920 --> 01:59:04,320
in a minute.
If if for for the listener,

2007
01:59:04,680 --> 01:59:07,880
there links that are going to be
at the bottom of the podcast

2008
01:59:08,240 --> 01:59:11,880
that are going to show you
pictures of the word of what a

2009
01:59:12,240 --> 01:59:15,120
1st century home in Judea looked
like.

2010
01:59:15,480 --> 01:59:19,720
And there are a couple different
things that that we'll see, but

2011
01:59:19,720 --> 01:59:22,720
this is all pertinent.
So let me let me go ahead and

2012
01:59:22,720 --> 01:59:25,120
read and then we'll we'll jump
back to that issue.

2013
01:59:25,120 --> 01:59:28,520
He went to be registered with
Mary, to whom he was engaged and

2014
01:59:28,520 --> 01:59:32,040
who was expecting a child.
Now she's only expecting here.

2015
01:59:32,120 --> 01:59:35,160
It doesn't say that she's 9 1/2
months pregnant and about ready

2016
01:59:35,160 --> 01:59:39,560
to to drop, right?
It just says she's expecting and

2017
01:59:39,560 --> 01:59:41,720
he's going to be registered with
her again.

2018
01:59:41,840 --> 01:59:45,240
He didn't have to take her his
head of household.

2019
01:59:45,800 --> 01:59:52,160
She had no duty to show up and
he had no duty to take her, only

2020
01:59:52,160 --> 01:59:54,000
the head of household or the
landowner.

2021
01:59:54,320 --> 01:59:56,320
She didn't own the land.
She wasn't in a house.

2022
01:59:56,640 --> 01:59:59,160
He could have left her behind.
He didn't.

2023
02:00:00,080 --> 02:00:03,400
Chances are he's being
thoughtful about this because

2024
02:00:03,400 --> 02:00:05,520
he's not going to leave her to
shame in Nazareth.

2025
02:00:06,280 --> 02:00:11,360
He's taking her with him so that
she can not be embarrassed as to

2026
02:00:11,360 --> 02:00:15,320
what happened, taking her to
Bethlehem with him to start a

2027
02:00:15,320 --> 02:00:20,680
new life and further.
He's probably taken time to

2028
02:00:20,680 --> 02:00:22,640
arrange housing, which we'll
talk about in a minute.

2029
02:00:23,960 --> 02:00:26,680
While they were there, the time
came for her to deliver child.

2030
02:00:26,760 --> 02:00:30,600
While they were there does not
mean the next morning we a lot.

2031
02:00:30,600 --> 02:00:35,400
There's this big assumption that
she's big Roly Poly belly and

2032
02:00:35,400 --> 02:00:36,840
it's going to fall out any
moment.

2033
02:00:38,000 --> 02:00:42,160
We don't know that and the
chances are it's not the case at

2034
02:00:42,160 --> 02:00:45,040
all as well.
We'll go as we go further and

2035
02:00:45,040 --> 02:00:47,600
she gave birth to her first born
son and wrapped him in bands of

2036
02:00:47,600 --> 02:00:49,160
cloth and laid him in a major
OK.

2037
02:00:50,240 --> 02:00:52,280
I got those pictures pulled up
when you're ready, Drew.

2038
02:00:52,640 --> 02:00:53,400
Perfect.
Thank you.

2039
02:00:54,200 --> 02:00:57,680
OK, so she gave birth to her
first, a first born son.

2040
02:00:57,680 --> 02:01:01,520
This is where it says right, her
first born son and wrapped him

2041
02:01:01,520 --> 02:01:03,960
in bands of cloth.
Now the basically these babies,

2042
02:01:04,040 --> 02:01:08,680
you know, could describe them as
little mummies, but the the

2043
02:01:08,680 --> 02:01:11,440
swaddling claws that they had,
and I know a lot of

2044
02:01:11,760 --> 02:01:14,920
fundamentalists probably already
know this, but probably some

2045
02:01:14,920 --> 02:01:19,040
groups don't teach it much.
So when you got married in

2046
02:01:19,040 --> 02:01:24,280
Hebrew culture, you would
embroidery your genealogy onto a

2047
02:01:24,280 --> 02:01:28,760
strip of linen typically, and on
the one side you'd embroidery

2048
02:01:28,800 --> 02:01:32,080
the husband's genealogy.
On the other side you embroidery

2049
02:01:32,120 --> 02:01:35,160
the wife's genealogy with which
a lot of people see with

2050
02:01:35,440 --> 02:01:39,600
Matthew's genealogy is Joseph's
and Luke's genealogy is Mary's.

2051
02:01:39,920 --> 02:01:42,320
That may or may not be so, but
that's kind of the same idea.

2052
02:01:42,320 --> 02:01:43,840
You embroidery put on one piece
of cloth.

2053
02:01:44,560 --> 02:01:49,080
When you go to hold hands and
make the covenant, you wrap that

2054
02:01:49,560 --> 02:01:52,800
cloth around both of your arms
to bind you together,

2055
02:01:53,240 --> 02:01:56,240
symbolizing you're uniting those
two genealogies.

2056
02:01:57,600 --> 02:02:02,320
So kind of a beautiful ceremony,
but there's something more that

2057
02:02:02,480 --> 02:02:06,840
became the swaddling cloth.
So then later they wrapped the

2058
02:02:06,840 --> 02:02:10,920
baby in those same linens with
the genealogy on it.

2059
02:02:11,440 --> 02:02:12,760
They would have other things
too.

2060
02:02:13,200 --> 02:02:17,240
Typically they would wash the
baby with salt and gosh, what

2061
02:02:17,240 --> 02:02:20,080
else was it?
It wasn't just salt and water,

2062
02:02:20,080 --> 02:02:23,640
but there's salt and something,
honey or something, I don't

2063
02:02:23,640 --> 02:02:26,000
remember.
But any rate, they would wash

2064
02:02:26,000 --> 02:02:28,320
the baby with the salt and this
sort of thing, and then they

2065
02:02:28,320 --> 02:02:32,480
would wrap their arms like a
mummy and wrap their legs like a

2066
02:02:32,480 --> 02:02:36,120
mummy so that their bones would
not bend.

2067
02:02:36,240 --> 02:02:40,120
There was this ancient fear or
concern that if you didn't do

2068
02:02:40,120 --> 02:02:42,240
that, that your arms and legs
would go crooked.

2069
02:02:44,120 --> 02:02:46,520
And so it became just this
tradition to wrap them in

2070
02:02:46,520 --> 02:02:48,800
swaddling clothes so your little
baby looks like a little mummy.

2071
02:02:49,680 --> 02:02:51,200
It wasn't just a cute little
blanket.

2072
02:02:51,320 --> 02:02:52,480
They were they were mummified
or.

2073
02:02:53,560 --> 02:02:54,920
Something there was a point to
that.

2074
02:02:55,400 --> 02:03:00,080
Right and laid him in a Manger.
And the word there is fatne.

2075
02:03:00,680 --> 02:03:05,560
And if we think of a Manger, we
think of, you know, what we see

2076
02:03:05,560 --> 02:03:08,520
at the nativity, right?
You've got a stall, you build it

2077
02:03:08,520 --> 02:03:11,520
up, it's got hay on the top.
It's about waist height, maybe

2078
02:03:11,520 --> 02:03:14,120
taller, blah, blah, blah.
That's not fontenay.

2079
02:03:15,040 --> 02:03:17,680
Typically fontenay refers to a
hole dug in the ground and

2080
02:03:17,680 --> 02:03:20,000
filled with hay so that the
animals could eat.

2081
02:03:20,680 --> 02:03:24,920
And so this is where if you, if
you look at the picture, you can

2082
02:03:24,920 --> 02:03:27,800
you can see where those fontenay
would be.

2083
02:03:28,200 --> 02:03:30,160
But let me Mint go one step
further.

2084
02:03:30,160 --> 02:03:36,960
First there was none to give
place for them in the guest

2085
02:03:36,960 --> 02:03:40,400
room.
The word there is kaluma,

2086
02:03:40,960 --> 02:03:46,120
alternately used as kaluma,
kalumati and kaluma.

2087
02:03:46,840 --> 02:03:50,840
But the word is referring to the
guest room of a house.

2088
02:03:52,080 --> 02:03:56,440
Now, some some people say, well,
you know, Luke would know

2089
02:03:56,440 --> 02:03:57,760
better.
He's the one writing this,

2090
02:03:57,760 --> 02:04:00,440
right?
Well, Luke uses the word in in

2091
02:04:00,440 --> 02:04:03,360
the story of the Good Samaritan.
He knows very well what that

2092
02:04:03,360 --> 02:04:05,200
word is.
And the word is pendocheon.

2093
02:04:05,840 --> 02:04:10,080
It's very different than Kaluma.
Any idiot can tell the

2094
02:04:10,080 --> 02:04:11,880
difference looking at it.
Even if you don't read the

2095
02:04:11,880 --> 02:04:13,760
language, it's clear they're not
the same.

2096
02:04:15,280 --> 02:04:18,880
What we, what scholars have
speculated is that when the King

2097
02:04:18,880 --> 02:04:23,600
James translators got this word
is the first time they'd ever

2098
02:04:23,600 --> 02:04:26,880
seen the word kudaluma.
They didn't know what it was

2099
02:04:26,880 --> 02:04:31,160
because it's referring to a
guest room in a Jewish Home, not

2100
02:04:31,160 --> 02:04:35,360
just any place.
And it was an obscure word.

2101
02:04:35,400 --> 02:04:36,800
They didn't know what to do with
it.

2102
02:04:36,800 --> 02:04:40,160
They looked at the context and
said they must have gone to an

2103
02:04:40,160 --> 02:04:43,360
inn because they're out of town,
and so it's an inn.

2104
02:04:43,840 --> 02:04:48,000
But there was no inn.
That's pedakion.

2105
02:04:48,640 --> 02:04:53,720
It's a word that is not used by
Luke, and it doesn't make any

2106
02:04:53,720 --> 02:04:55,520
sense.
There's no archaeological

2107
02:04:55,520 --> 02:05:01,000
evidence, and there is no
written manuscript evidence of

2108
02:05:01,080 --> 02:05:03,480
any N being anywhere near
Bethlehem.

2109
02:05:03,480 --> 02:05:07,520
It was too small to support one.
It was not on a major trade

2110
02:05:07,520 --> 02:05:09,880
route.
There was no need for an N.

2111
02:05:10,120 --> 02:05:13,600
And further, most people didn't
use NS in the ancient Near East.

2112
02:05:14,480 --> 02:05:17,800
They stopped by family or they
would knock on somebody's door

2113
02:05:17,800 --> 02:05:20,000
and say, hey, I'm a poor
traveler or can you let me stay?

2114
02:05:20,320 --> 02:05:23,920
And people generally did, unless
you looked really rough.

2115
02:05:24,560 --> 02:05:28,640
Now in any culture in the world,
if a pregnant woman comes and

2116
02:05:28,640 --> 02:05:31,520
knocks on your door and says, my
baby's about to drop, can I stay

2117
02:05:31,520 --> 02:05:34,040
the night?
Is there any culture that says

2118
02:05:34,080 --> 02:05:39,440
no, go away?
Pretty much the answers, no, and

2119
02:05:39,440 --> 02:05:43,200
certainly not among the Jews,
and certainly not among the

2120
02:05:43,200 --> 02:05:45,880
Arabs.
Broadly speaking, that would be

2121
02:05:45,880 --> 02:05:49,280
considered one of the most
disgraceful, disgusting things

2122
02:05:49,280 --> 02:05:52,400
you could do.
It would dishonor the family and

2123
02:05:52,400 --> 02:05:54,840
the community and their whole
culture.

2124
02:05:55,400 --> 02:05:59,680
They could not in any decent
type of good conscience tell a

2125
02:05:59,680 --> 02:06:03,720
pregnant woman, no, I'm sorry,
you need a house, go somewhere

2126
02:06:03,720 --> 02:06:05,880
else.
Nobody would do that.

2127
02:06:06,600 --> 02:06:08,120
You wouldn't do that.
I wouldn't do that.

2128
02:06:08,120 --> 02:06:09,520
People listening wouldn't do
that.

2129
02:06:10,080 --> 02:06:12,480
It's just not something that
that that happens.

2130
02:06:12,920 --> 02:06:17,080
What does make sense is that
there was no room for her in the

2131
02:06:17,360 --> 02:06:20,760
in the in the Kaluma.
Few years back, I started to get

2132
02:06:20,760 --> 02:06:23,000
the feeling that we, as
fundamentalists and orthodox

2133
02:06:23,000 --> 02:06:26,400
Mormons, we need our own stuff.
Up to now, we've been able to

2134
02:06:26,400 --> 02:06:29,800
buy and purchase all of our
scriptures, books, art, and

2135
02:06:29,800 --> 02:06:33,440
music from other restoration
organizations, and that's been

2136
02:06:33,440 --> 02:06:35,240
good.
But there's no guarantee it's

2137
02:06:35,240 --> 02:06:38,640
going to remain that way.
Also, it can be a bit tricky to

2138
02:06:38,640 --> 02:06:42,120
scour the Internet trying to
find all the books from your

2139
02:06:42,120 --> 02:06:45,280
favorite fundamentalist or
orthodox Mormon authors.

2140
02:06:45,720 --> 02:06:48,120
As I thought about this, I feel
like I was really given a

2141
02:06:48,120 --> 02:06:51,040
solution now through the hard
work of others, because let's

2142
02:06:51,040 --> 02:06:54,280
face it, I'm the guy least
qualified in all the world to

2143
02:06:54,280 --> 02:06:57,560
build a website.
I'm happy to present to you 1830

2144
02:06:57,560 --> 02:07:01,080
mercantile.org.
Right now on the website you can

2145
02:07:01,080 --> 02:07:03,920
see that we have all the books
have ever been written by 4

2146
02:07:03,920 --> 02:07:06,920
authors, including names like
Drew, Briny and Ogdenkraut.

2147
02:07:07,280 --> 02:07:12,040
Also very soon there will be a
link to buy art and music all

2148
02:07:12,040 --> 02:07:15,360
produced by Mormons with a deep
love for the restored gospel.

2149
02:07:15,600 --> 02:07:19,240
There's also places for you to
get free resources where you can

2150
02:07:19,240 --> 02:07:22,840
find podcasts, videos, classes,
and other presentations.

2151
02:07:23,360 --> 02:07:26,840
Also coming very soon there will
be a place for events where you

2152
02:07:26,840 --> 02:07:30,760
can list the events from your
organization so that you can get

2153
02:07:30,760 --> 02:07:34,480
the most out of that attendance.
Now this can be as big as you

2154
02:07:34,480 --> 02:07:36,480
want it to be.
It's all up to you guys out

2155
02:07:36,480 --> 02:07:39,280
there if you want to buy and
post things on here.

2156
02:07:39,960 --> 02:07:42,680
Now, if you're someone who
produces something that you feel

2157
02:07:42,680 --> 02:07:46,440
like others can benefit from,
1830 Mercantile is a place where

2158
02:07:46,440 --> 02:07:49,520
you can make all of those
products available for purchase.

2159
02:07:49,800 --> 02:07:51,840
All you need to do is drop me an
e-mail at

2160
02:07:51,840 --> 02:07:56,720
mormonrenegade@gmail.com and put
1830 in in the title of that

2161
02:07:56,720 --> 02:08:00,120
e-mail with a short message and
either myself or someone else

2162
02:08:00,120 --> 02:08:03,520
from the 1830 Mercantile team
will reach out to you so we can

2163
02:08:03,520 --> 02:08:05,280
get your product up there on the
site.

2164
02:08:05,760 --> 02:08:11,280
Now to make sure that all the
products that we offer are

2165
02:08:11,280 --> 02:08:14,920
affordable and to ensure that
the vast majority of the profits

2166
02:08:14,920 --> 02:08:20,120
go to the producer, the website
percentage is only three to 4%

2167
02:08:20,240 --> 02:08:22,680
of the total cost.
And that's just so I can pay the

2168
02:08:22,680 --> 02:08:25,640
pros that have created this
website and keep the lights on

2169
02:08:25,640 --> 02:08:29,120
the website itself.
Finally, by making some of your

2170
02:08:29,120 --> 02:08:32,440
purchases at 1830
mercantile.org, you'll be

2171
02:08:32,440 --> 02:08:35,760
supporting folks whose
principles and morals are close,

2172
02:08:35,800 --> 02:08:39,240
if not the same as yours.
At the same time not giving your

2173
02:08:39,240 --> 02:08:42,440
money away to people who stand
against everything you stand

2174
02:08:42,440 --> 02:08:44,480
for.
So no matter if you're looking

2175
02:08:44,480 --> 02:08:47,480
to make a purchase or you're a
seller that wants to get your

2176
02:08:47,480 --> 02:08:51,760
products listed, head on over to
1830 mercantile.org today.

2177
02:08:52,240 --> 02:08:55,360
Drop me an e-mail and we'll make
sure that we get back out to

2178
02:08:55,360 --> 02:08:56,960
you.
Now back to the show.

2179
02:08:57,520 --> 02:09:01,600
So now if we go to the pictures
and I, I put a couple different

2180
02:09:01,600 --> 02:09:04,520
links on there because there are
different possibilities of

2181
02:09:04,520 --> 02:09:09,280
what's being referred to here.
I think one of the links is

2182
02:09:09,280 --> 02:09:11,640
probably wrong and one's
probably right.

2183
02:09:12,600 --> 02:09:16,400
So I'm going to talk about that.
I, I wish I had, I put up a

2184
02:09:16,400 --> 02:09:20,920
picture on my podcast that I did
that was a little bit closer to

2185
02:09:20,920 --> 02:09:23,680
accurate, but the one that
you've got up on the screen

2186
02:09:23,680 --> 02:09:28,880
right now is really good.
OK, so as you walk into the

2187
02:09:28,880 --> 02:09:34,640
house, you typically walked into
the stable and the stable was a

2188
02:09:34,640 --> 02:09:38,600
step down.
It was dug into the ground and

2189
02:09:38,600 --> 02:09:42,440
it usually slanted.
So as you walk into the house,

2190
02:09:42,960 --> 02:09:45,440
the first Fontenay, which is
what those circles are the

2191
02:09:45,440 --> 02:09:50,240
major, those are the Fontenay.
Those are the, the line between

2192
02:09:50,240 --> 02:09:54,200
the two rooms is usually a
little kind of a fence.

2193
02:09:54,200 --> 02:09:57,800
And it was just, you know, some
XS holding up a, a, a bar that

2194
02:09:57,800 --> 02:09:59,600
went across.
And when it's feeding time, you

2195
02:09:59,600 --> 02:10:02,480
remove the bar so the animal
could reach the fontnate, the

2196
02:10:02,480 --> 02:10:07,440
Manger feeding through.
And the big animals like an ox,

2197
02:10:07,440 --> 02:10:10,880
if you had one, or a donkey
would eat at the end of the

2198
02:10:10,880 --> 02:10:13,680
Manger because it was deeper and
the sheep would eat at the

2199
02:10:13,680 --> 02:10:16,920
shallower end, which was closer.
Now, first of all, you're saying

2200
02:10:16,920 --> 02:10:20,440
why are they eating with a
stable in the house?

2201
02:10:21,240 --> 02:10:25,840
There were two reasons.
One is people would steal

2202
02:10:25,840 --> 02:10:27,280
animals if they were left
outside.

2203
02:10:27,800 --> 02:10:31,200
So to protect your animals, you
would keep them inside.

2204
02:10:31,200 --> 02:10:33,640
Now it's a big deal in today's
stay and age.

2205
02:10:33,640 --> 02:10:35,280
You're like, Dang, somebody
stole my sheep.

2206
02:10:35,640 --> 02:10:38,800
Oh, shoot, man, that sucks.
You're gonna buy a new one next

2207
02:10:38,800 --> 02:10:41,520
year.
It's not a big loss.

2208
02:10:41,520 --> 02:10:45,560
It's not something that ruins
your life in in that time

2209
02:10:45,560 --> 02:10:49,040
period.
However, if you lost a cow, that

2210
02:10:49,040 --> 02:10:51,720
could be something that you
saved up for 10 years to buy,

2211
02:10:52,200 --> 02:10:56,560
that you relied upon for milk
and that you know, you, you used

2212
02:10:56,560 --> 02:10:59,880
to help plow your, your, you
know, your, your field or

2213
02:10:59,880 --> 02:11:01,400
something.
Even if it wasn't an ox, you

2214
02:11:01,400 --> 02:11:04,400
might use a cow.
It's could, is extremely

2215
02:11:04,400 --> 02:11:06,840
valuable.
If somebody stole it, it would

2216
02:11:06,840 --> 02:11:09,640
be devastating.
It might take years to recover

2217
02:11:09,920 --> 02:11:13,280
financially.
So you kept it inside the house

2218
02:11:13,280 --> 02:11:16,840
with you.
Second reason is in the cold

2219
02:11:16,840 --> 02:11:20,120
times of the winter, the more
bodies you have in an area, the

2220
02:11:20,120 --> 02:11:23,120
more it warms it up.
Just like if you've ever been in

2221
02:11:23,120 --> 02:11:27,880
A at a congregation, a church,
or if you go to a convention,

2222
02:11:27,880 --> 02:11:30,160
there are lots of people.
Next thing, first thing, you're

2223
02:11:30,160 --> 02:11:33,560
like shaking your shirt and
you're sweating and it's really

2224
02:11:33,560 --> 02:11:34,960
hot because it's all the body
heat.

2225
02:11:35,440 --> 02:11:39,560
They helped heat up the homes,
especially when they lived in

2226
02:11:39,560 --> 02:11:41,560
caves.
And a lot of the peasants lived

2227
02:11:41,560 --> 02:11:44,280
in caves and so that's where
they were.

2228
02:11:44,680 --> 02:11:50,480
So they were separated from the
main living area by steps and

2229
02:11:50,480 --> 02:11:52,360
and they would they just put a
bar across so the animals

2230
02:11:52,360 --> 02:11:54,960
couldn't get up.
And when it was feeding time,

2231
02:11:54,960 --> 02:11:58,320
they would remove some of those
bars so that they could access

2232
02:11:58,320 --> 02:12:01,680
the font name.
OK, so now when we read about

2233
02:12:01,720 --> 02:12:05,840
Jesus being born in a Manger, we
see it's actually the family

2234
02:12:05,840 --> 02:12:08,720
area of the house, the biggest
room of the house.

2235
02:12:09,360 --> 02:12:13,520
That would allow the midwife to
go up and down the steps through

2236
02:12:13,520 --> 02:12:18,000
the main entrance of the house
and have some privacy because it

2237
02:12:18,000 --> 02:12:21,120
was shut off from the from the
sleeping quarters for the rest

2238
02:12:21,120 --> 02:12:26,120
of the family and is able to
tend to the baby who's being

2239
02:12:26,120 --> 02:12:29,040
kept in a bunch of fresh hay on
the floor.

2240
02:12:30,400 --> 02:12:34,560
That would be a perfectly nice,
normal way for people to have a

2241
02:12:34,560 --> 02:12:38,000
baby in 1st century Palestine.
So.

2242
02:12:38,000 --> 02:12:39,480
Oh.
Yeah, sure paints a different

2243
02:12:39,480 --> 02:12:41,920
picture other than just tossing
Mary out.

2244
02:12:42,520 --> 02:12:44,400
Mary and Joseph out on their
own.

2245
02:12:44,720 --> 02:12:48,160
Yes, and and further, the
picture you've got shows a

2246
02:12:48,160 --> 02:12:54,040
separate door to the Cataluma.
That is not always how it is.

2247
02:12:54,040 --> 02:12:57,000
So imagine if you will take that
guest room, split it

2248
02:12:57,000 --> 02:13:01,040
horizontally and instead of
having a door there, have the

2249
02:13:01,040 --> 02:13:05,920
door go into the family area.
That's mom and dad's room and it

2250
02:13:05,920 --> 02:13:08,800
goes into the family area.
Kids just sleep in the main

2251
02:13:08,800 --> 02:13:11,400
area.
And if a family was poor enough,

2252
02:13:11,480 --> 02:13:14,200
and sometimes dad would anyway,
the dad would sleep next to the

2253
02:13:14,200 --> 02:13:19,160
door so that if anybody came in,
he would be alerted.

2254
02:13:20,400 --> 02:13:22,440
And so it says, which of you
going to your neighbors at

2255
02:13:22,440 --> 02:13:24,000
midnight to ask for bread,
right?

2256
02:13:24,000 --> 02:13:26,520
And you're knocking on the door.
Dad's the one by the door.

2257
02:13:26,520 --> 02:13:28,360
That's why you're going to
stumble over him first because

2258
02:13:28,360 --> 02:13:30,800
he's guarding the area.
But now he's going to fumble

2259
02:13:30,800 --> 02:13:33,320
around in the dark to try and
find the bread, which is not

2260
02:13:33,320 --> 02:13:36,880
going to be where the, the the
stable area is going to have to

2261
02:13:36,880 --> 02:13:39,800
go somewhere in one of the other
the family area to find it.

2262
02:13:39,800 --> 02:13:41,560
And everybody else is sleeping
on the floor.

2263
02:13:42,080 --> 02:13:43,600
So he's going to stumble over
everybody.

2264
02:13:43,600 --> 02:13:48,720
So a normal family would have
the a room for the parents and

2265
02:13:48,720 --> 02:13:52,480
then a guest room would have a
separate entrance going into

2266
02:13:52,960 --> 02:13:56,760
through the family area.
Not always, it depends on how

2267
02:13:56,760 --> 02:13:59,800
wealthy you are.
The poorer families had a

2268
02:13:59,800 --> 02:14:01,480
entrance through the family
room.

2269
02:14:02,160 --> 02:14:05,000
A richer family had an entrance
that's separate like the picture

2270
02:14:05,000 --> 02:14:08,200
that you have.
And if you get even richer,

2271
02:14:08,240 --> 02:14:12,160
which is not how it's described
in the Nativity story, then you

2272
02:14:12,160 --> 02:14:15,880
have a second floor where the
family area where the people

2273
02:14:15,880 --> 02:14:19,720
sleep is on the 2nd floor and
there's a stable underneath it.

2274
02:14:19,840 --> 02:14:24,080
I think kind of a main area like
the family area here.

2275
02:14:24,640 --> 02:14:27,800
I don't think that makes any
sense at all with the with the

2276
02:14:27,800 --> 02:14:29,440
story.
If we look at the original words

2277
02:14:29,440 --> 02:14:33,160
and the setup and how how things
are described, it doesn't make

2278
02:14:33,160 --> 02:14:35,800
sense.
Now, let's take a step back now

2279
02:14:35,800 --> 02:14:39,960
and say they show up and say
there was no room for them in

2280
02:14:39,960 --> 02:14:43,000
the Cataluma, the guest room,
Why?

2281
02:14:44,080 --> 02:14:45,960
It's a census there in
Bethlehem.

2282
02:14:46,280 --> 02:14:48,760
Everybody who's a descendant of
David is showing up at

2283
02:14:48,760 --> 02:14:51,360
Bethlehem.
It's a tiny town and there are

2284
02:14:51,360 --> 02:14:53,240
thousands of people showing up
to stay.

2285
02:14:54,800 --> 02:14:57,600
And the locals can't say no
because they're royalty.

2286
02:14:59,560 --> 02:15:03,720
And so the guest room is already
full and but they're not going

2287
02:15:03,720 --> 02:15:06,280
to say no.
You know, he could have said,

2288
02:15:06,280 --> 02:15:08,880
you know what, I'm going to move
the other people to the guest

2289
02:15:08,880 --> 02:15:11,560
room so you can have the main
family area because it will give

2290
02:15:11,560 --> 02:15:14,520
more privacy.
It'll be nicer area for the

2291
02:15:14,520 --> 02:15:17,920
midwife to have access to come
in and out without walking

2292
02:15:17,920 --> 02:15:20,960
through everybody else.
And you know, Mary's not going

2293
02:15:20,960 --> 02:15:24,200
to have a bunch of people coming
in and out of her room going,

2294
02:15:24,280 --> 02:15:27,400
you know, walking from where
they are at or something.

2295
02:15:27,680 --> 02:15:30,560
Who who knows?
It depends on the specific home

2296
02:15:30,560 --> 02:15:32,760
and how it worked, but it makes
sense.

2297
02:15:33,520 --> 02:15:35,560
Yeah.
It's a normal functioning place.

2298
02:15:35,560 --> 02:15:39,000
It makes sense that they're
saying, look, you know, the

2299
02:15:39,000 --> 02:15:42,200
cataloom is not big enough for
you to have the baby.

2300
02:15:42,200 --> 02:15:44,280
You got to have midwives are
coming in and out.

2301
02:15:44,800 --> 02:15:48,200
You've got, you know, maybe the
kids are going to bring her

2302
02:15:48,200 --> 02:15:51,000
water or maybe they're going to
bring food into her.

2303
02:15:51,520 --> 02:15:54,560
There's just, there's not.
They're tiny rooms.

2304
02:15:54,560 --> 02:15:57,320
So this is this.
This just is not the best place

2305
02:15:57,320 --> 02:15:58,760
for you.
We'll give you the main family

2306
02:15:58,760 --> 02:16:02,520
area and we'll, we'll sneak all
the kids into the room and keep

2307
02:16:02,520 --> 02:16:04,440
them quiet while the baby's
being there.

2308
02:16:04,800 --> 02:16:06,400
So you won't have people going
in and out.

2309
02:16:06,920 --> 02:16:10,840
And the, the midwives can take,
take care of you as needed.

2310
02:16:11,160 --> 02:16:14,760
You can clean up and not, you
know, you can have your privacy.

2311
02:16:15,360 --> 02:16:18,960
Now, to be fair, privacy in the
ancient Near East and then most

2312
02:16:18,960 --> 02:16:22,840
societies is not like what we
experienced today.

2313
02:16:23,480 --> 02:16:25,520
So it wasn't as big of a deal,
but it would have been a

2314
02:16:25,520 --> 02:16:27,320
consideration.
It would have been something to

2315
02:16:27,320 --> 02:16:33,240
do to be kind.
So, and I mentioned that just

2316
02:16:33,240 --> 02:16:36,840
just as an example, I love the
archaeology Bible.

2317
02:16:36,840 --> 02:16:40,080
It's a, it's a Bible that that
has pictures of archaeological

2318
02:16:40,080 --> 02:16:43,120
evidences of how things were
back in Jesus's time.

2319
02:16:43,840 --> 02:16:46,520
And one of the interesting
things is they show a bathroom

2320
02:16:46,799 --> 02:16:51,879
in Jerusalem at the time.
And all it was was planks every,

2321
02:16:52,040 --> 02:16:55,440
you know, every spaced, every so
often you sat on the 2 planks, 1

2322
02:16:55,440 --> 02:16:57,680
on each leg and that was your
toilet.

2323
02:16:58,440 --> 02:17:00,879
There were no dividers.
There was no male or female

2324
02:17:00,879 --> 02:17:02,559
room.
It was everybody went to the

2325
02:17:02,559 --> 02:17:05,440
bathroom together, seeing each
other like the literally be like

2326
02:17:05,440 --> 02:17:08,840
40 of these in a big U shape all
across this big room.

2327
02:17:10,400 --> 02:17:14,480
So the idea of privacy and you
know how you looked at things

2328
02:17:14,480 --> 02:17:17,520
and all those things are very,
very different in the ancient

2329
02:17:17,520 --> 02:17:19,879
Near East.
And I'm not saying that so how

2330
02:17:19,879 --> 02:17:24,799
the Jews preferred it, but
that's how it was in Rome and in

2331
02:17:24,799 --> 02:17:28,440
Jerusalem at at the time there
was a a place they've got

2332
02:17:28,440 --> 02:17:30,040
pictures of.
That's how it was.

2333
02:17:30,559 --> 02:17:33,480
And so that kind of suggests
this is an environment they're

2334
02:17:33,480 --> 02:17:37,000
kind of accustomed to.
And so their concept of privacy

2335
02:17:37,000 --> 02:17:41,799
is not the same as it is today.
But nevertheless, it gives you

2336
02:17:41,799 --> 02:17:44,480
a, a different perspective than
we might expect.

2337
02:17:45,120 --> 02:17:50,080
So now there is no innkeeper.
There is no guy saying, get out

2338
02:17:50,080 --> 02:17:51,160
of here, I don't have room for
you.

2339
02:17:51,320 --> 02:17:54,000
Oh wait, you can stay with all
the animals in the stable.

2340
02:17:55,719 --> 02:17:59,680
Nobody would do that.
That's what we teach every

2341
02:17:59,680 --> 02:18:02,440
Christmas and every nativity.
That's what we see.

2342
02:18:02,879 --> 02:18:06,799
But if you look at this 1st
century home, you see the

2343
02:18:06,799 --> 02:18:08,760
stables where everybody walked
through.

2344
02:18:08,760 --> 02:18:12,280
When you went to home, you went
up the stairs away from the

2345
02:18:12,280 --> 02:18:15,879
stable.
But the Fontenay, the Manger was

2346
02:18:15,879 --> 02:18:18,680
right next to the wall where the
animals were.

2347
02:18:18,680 --> 02:18:21,200
So, well, the baby's being
placed in the Manger.

2348
02:18:21,200 --> 02:18:23,280
You've got the sheep and the
donkey, Leone over there

2349
02:18:23,280 --> 02:18:27,360
sniffing at it and curious about
it and blowing and making, you

2350
02:18:27,360 --> 02:18:29,719
know, the sounds that we have
described in the, in the

2351
02:18:29,719 --> 02:18:34,000
nativity scenes, which by the
way, do have some scriptural

2352
02:18:34,000 --> 02:18:37,000
support in the Old Testament
and, and in some of the early

2353
02:18:37,000 --> 02:18:40,080
church fathers.
But that's what we're seeing

2354
02:18:40,080 --> 02:18:43,400
here.
And, and that's very different

2355
02:18:43,400 --> 02:18:47,120
than what we see in the nativity
scenes at Christmas time.

2356
02:18:47,719 --> 02:18:52,280
And, and also, you know, you've
got a family where probably,

2357
02:18:52,280 --> 02:18:55,719
like I said, to get guest room
is probably not separate there.

2358
02:18:56,080 --> 02:18:59,639
The mom and dad are probably in
a room that's just offset from

2359
02:18:59,639 --> 02:19:03,240
the family area.
So the the wife can come in and

2360
02:19:03,240 --> 02:19:06,879
out and help the midwives or
provide food or get extra

2361
02:19:06,879 --> 02:19:08,920
blankets or wash or whatever
needs help.

2362
02:19:09,320 --> 02:19:12,320
She's going to be able to help.
She's going to be right there.

2363
02:19:13,480 --> 02:19:16,040
Whereas if she was in a separate
room with a separate thing like

2364
02:19:16,040 --> 02:19:19,200
the Cataluma, she's not going to
be quite as accessible.

2365
02:19:19,520 --> 02:19:22,320
Again, it could be either way,
but I think from what we read,

2366
02:19:23,600 --> 02:19:26,520
the the the first scenario makes
more sense.

2367
02:19:26,920 --> 02:19:30,639
And that's what Kenneth Bailey,
Kenneth Bailey in his book with

2368
02:19:30,639 --> 02:19:33,080
his diagram doesn't show the
Catalan with a separate

2369
02:19:33,080 --> 02:19:35,680
entrance.
It's as I, as I was describing

2370
02:19:35,680 --> 02:19:39,559
earlier, draw a horizontal line
there and there there's

2371
02:19:39,879 --> 02:19:42,360
sometimes they don't have doors
or just have sheet or something

2372
02:19:42,360 --> 02:19:43,680
like the 70s.
They just have beads or

2373
02:19:43,680 --> 02:19:46,760
something.
It wasn't like a formal doorway

2374
02:19:46,760 --> 02:19:49,280
necessarily might just be an
archway from room to room.

2375
02:19:50,400 --> 02:19:53,080
But regardless, you know,
there's a certain amount of

2376
02:19:53,080 --> 02:19:56,800
privacy there, but those are
usually small.

2377
02:19:56,800 --> 02:19:59,360
And that's why it makes sense to
says there's there's no room for

2378
02:19:59,360 --> 02:20:01,080
you And there let's let's give
you the family room.

2379
02:20:01,080 --> 02:20:05,200
It's bigger.
We'll get you some fresh hay and

2380
02:20:05,200 --> 02:20:08,240
then everybody can have access
middle of the night if you need

2381
02:20:08,240 --> 02:20:12,840
to, whenever it happens and wife
will be readily available

2382
02:20:12,840 --> 02:20:15,120
anytime you need her.
Just call for help.

2383
02:20:15,120 --> 02:20:20,120
She'll wake up and husband's
usually are not involved at at

2384
02:20:20,120 --> 02:20:22,320
that point.
So there he goes.

2385
02:20:23,120 --> 02:20:31,640
OK, so out of out of that, I
think a lot of the rest of the

2386
02:20:31,640 --> 02:20:35,000
stuff starts getting a little
bit less interesting.

2387
02:20:37,120 --> 02:20:40,080
I think this is kind of one of
the bigger messages, I think

2388
02:20:40,080 --> 02:20:43,840
for, for people who are saying,
well, what's a, a better

2389
02:20:43,840 --> 02:20:46,480
understanding of the nativity
that I have today?

2390
02:20:46,560 --> 02:20:50,360
What's something that's
different that I could learn

2391
02:20:50,360 --> 02:20:53,640
that would help me to better
understand the story of Christ's

2392
02:20:53,680 --> 02:20:56,520
birth?
You know, and I, I think that

2393
02:20:56,520 --> 02:21:00,360
last thing is, is the big,
that's, that's the big take away

2394
02:21:00,360 --> 02:21:03,880
take away.
So for me, when I look look at

2395
02:21:03,880 --> 02:21:07,560
the nativity and I focus on it
with my kids, I really look at

2396
02:21:07,560 --> 02:21:11,480
two different things each year.
And I'm, I'm not saying this is

2397
02:21:12,040 --> 02:21:13,440
how it has to be.
I'm just amusing.

2398
02:21:13,440 --> 02:21:15,040
This really it's kind of a wrap
up for you.

2399
02:21:16,880 --> 02:21:21,440
But I, I think the story of
Joseph's costly love and his

2400
02:21:21,440 --> 02:21:26,560
sacrifice and how he was asked
to handle Mary in that situation

2401
02:21:27,280 --> 02:21:32,120
is often overlooked.
And I think that's one of the

2402
02:21:32,120 --> 02:21:37,120
beautiful sides of masculinity
that is often overlooked where

2403
02:21:37,120 --> 02:21:41,440
you have good men who will
sacrifice their own honor, their

2404
02:21:41,440 --> 02:21:45,320
own what, whatever they need,
they sacrifice it for the

2405
02:21:45,320 --> 02:21:49,280
benefit of their family or the
benefit of the wife and not the

2406
02:21:49,280 --> 02:21:52,720
whole family or whatever to
protect and serve them and, and

2407
02:21:52,880 --> 02:21:55,720
strengthen them.
And we see that in Joseph.

2408
02:21:55,840 --> 02:21:59,800
And not only does he do that,
but he's in a really difficult

2409
02:21:59,800 --> 02:22:02,640
situation, something that we we
can't even really fathom in our

2410
02:22:02,640 --> 02:22:04,920
modern culture.
But when the Angel tells him to

2411
02:22:04,920 --> 02:22:08,400
do something, he immediately
responds in each time.

2412
02:22:08,880 --> 02:22:13,600
OK, go to Bethlehem, go to
Egypt, go back to Nazareth, you

2413
02:22:13,600 --> 02:22:16,600
know, boom, boom, boom
immediately obeys every time.

2414
02:22:16,960 --> 02:22:19,720
And you don't hear him being a
whiny butt and saying, wait, a

2415
02:22:19,720 --> 02:22:22,760
car.
Jeez, you're asking an awful lot

2416
02:22:22,760 --> 02:22:23,600
here.
What about this?

2417
02:22:23,600 --> 02:22:26,440
What about this?
You know, I supposed to just

2418
02:22:26,440 --> 02:22:28,880
take all those shame, all this
bad stuff.

2419
02:22:29,760 --> 02:22:32,520
He's just like, all right, done.
God wants it.

2420
02:22:32,520 --> 02:22:36,720
It's it's there.
That's a a very beautiful side

2421
02:22:36,720 --> 02:22:39,680
of the story that is, is pretty
much completely overlooked.

2422
02:22:41,040 --> 02:22:46,120
And the, the Matthew genealogy
we started out with, I think is

2423
02:22:46,120 --> 02:22:50,120
a really good set up for that
because he's acknowledging,

2424
02:22:50,600 --> 02:22:56,080
yeah, this story has kind of, if
you don't believe it and a lot

2425
02:22:56,080 --> 02:22:59,880
of you reading won't believe it
because Matthew realizes he's

2426
02:22:59,880 --> 02:23:01,960
not, not everybody's going to
read and be a convert.

2427
02:23:03,080 --> 02:23:08,240
If you don't believe it at least
shows a little bit of hesitancy

2428
02:23:08,240 --> 02:23:11,200
before you judge because look at
our history and our background.

2429
02:23:12,040 --> 02:23:13,640
This could be another woman like
that.

2430
02:23:13,640 --> 02:23:17,640
So give her some space, Don't
judge her harshly, you know,

2431
02:23:17,680 --> 02:23:20,520
these types of things.
I think that sets up that

2432
02:23:20,640 --> 02:23:22,880
understanding of what's
happening for Joseph really

2433
02:23:22,880 --> 02:23:26,360
beautifully as well.
And and lastly, I think very by

2434
02:23:26,360 --> 02:23:30,040
far the most important thing is
I would, I would love to

2435
02:23:30,040 --> 02:23:33,120
participate or see a nativity
that was actually done right

2436
02:23:33,920 --> 02:23:38,320
when I learned about this first
time 1520 years ago, I don't

2437
02:23:38,320 --> 02:23:42,320
remember, but when I first
learned about it, it was just so

2438
02:23:42,320 --> 02:23:48,000
touching to me.
You know, if, if Christ's birth,

2439
02:23:48,520 --> 02:23:50,880
if Christ being the savior of
the world, you'd think his birth

2440
02:23:50,880 --> 02:23:55,760
is nativity scenario would be
doctrinally important for

2441
02:23:55,760 --> 02:23:58,680
whatever reason, there's some
significance there.

2442
02:23:59,160 --> 02:24:02,560
And if we have a false
understanding of it, we're,

2443
02:24:02,560 --> 02:24:06,320
we're missing something.
But having a, a correct

2444
02:24:06,320 --> 02:24:09,240
understanding of what these
words mean and what's happening

2445
02:24:09,240 --> 02:24:13,880
in, in doing that, it has to
bring the spirit to you to, to,

2446
02:24:14,000 --> 02:24:19,800
to grasp that and, and say, oh,
all those weird things that I've

2447
02:24:19,800 --> 02:24:21,560
always wondered about and just
ignored.

2448
02:24:22,080 --> 02:24:25,760
They actually make sense now
that that there's no mean in

2449
02:24:25,760 --> 02:24:27,920
Keeper.
They're not, you know, she's not

2450
02:24:27,920 --> 02:24:31,240
giving birth while animals are
bumping her and walking around

2451
02:24:31,240 --> 02:24:34,400
her and all this sort of stuff.
Joseph's not this complete

2452
02:24:34,400 --> 02:24:39,000
schmuck who doesn't think ahead,
doesn't have a place for her to

2453
02:24:39,000 --> 02:24:42,320
stay, hasn't thought enough
about it until she's 9 1/2

2454
02:24:42,320 --> 02:24:45,160
months pregnant and, you know,
baby's falling out.

2455
02:24:45,160 --> 02:24:47,160
Then all of a sudden he's like,
oh, I need a place to stay

2456
02:24:47,160 --> 02:24:49,400
tonight.
What a jerk.

2457
02:24:49,440 --> 02:24:52,200
I mean, who does that?
He's not thoughtless like that.

2458
02:24:53,040 --> 02:24:55,560
And moreover, he stays there for
a year and a half.

2459
02:24:55,600 --> 02:24:58,520
You think he negotiated that on
the eve of her having the baby?

2460
02:24:59,600 --> 02:25:03,000
You know, he had to prepare and
organize that beforehand.

2461
02:25:03,480 --> 02:25:05,600
Before he showed up to to
Bethlehem.

2462
02:25:05,600 --> 02:25:07,880
He probably said, hey, uncle so
and so.

2463
02:25:08,240 --> 02:25:10,400
I need a place to stay.
I've got a pregnant wife.

2464
02:25:11,480 --> 02:25:14,920
You've got a pregnant wife.
She's only, you know you.

2465
02:25:16,400 --> 02:25:18,040
What's the story there?
Never mind.

2466
02:25:18,040 --> 02:25:19,480
We can we stay for a year and a
half.

2467
02:25:20,160 --> 02:25:22,760
You know, he's had to go through
some of this difficult

2468
02:25:22,760 --> 02:25:26,440
conversation and negotiations
before he even shows up or else

2469
02:25:26,440 --> 02:25:27,880
he wouldn't be able to stay
there that long.

2470
02:25:29,080 --> 02:25:32,840
And if not, it's with his other
family in which he's got small,

2471
02:25:32,840 --> 02:25:35,280
so difficult conversations to
arrange.

2472
02:25:36,800 --> 02:25:39,440
But then it doesn't look like
it's staying with family because

2473
02:25:39,440 --> 02:25:40,920
there's no room in the guest
room, right?

2474
02:25:41,680 --> 02:25:46,240
It's not her house either. 100%.
Possible it was a sister wife's

2475
02:25:46,240 --> 02:25:50,640
house, but at any rate, looking
at it that way, he's not a

2476
02:25:50,640 --> 02:25:53,600
schmuck.
You know, he's really had some

2477
02:25:53,600 --> 02:25:55,920
difficult conversations.
He's handled them.

2478
02:25:55,920 --> 02:26:00,760
He's negotiated a place to stay.
Good, bad, mid grade, ugly,

2479
02:26:00,760 --> 02:26:03,360
happy, whatever.
He's done what he can to take

2480
02:26:03,360 --> 02:26:06,120
care of her, to get her out of a
place where she's going to be

2481
02:26:06,120 --> 02:26:09,520
humiliated, embarrassed and
subject to ridicule and shame.

2482
02:26:10,080 --> 02:26:12,680
Brought her to a new place.
They're able to stay there

2483
02:26:12,680 --> 02:26:16,600
stably for a year and a half and
he's able to take care of her

2484
02:26:17,080 --> 02:26:21,200
and, you know, have her stay
with whatever extended families

2485
02:26:21,200 --> 02:26:26,520
probably who he stayed with
because there are there

2486
02:26:27,040 --> 02:26:29,920
everybody's technically extended
family, but you know, it's

2487
02:26:29,920 --> 02:26:32,760
likely somebody he knew in the
1st place and negotiated with is

2488
02:26:32,760 --> 02:26:35,520
my point.
So it paints a very different

2489
02:26:35,520 --> 02:26:40,560
picture of Joseph as, as you
know, some men are like that,

2490
02:26:40,600 --> 02:26:42,080
right?
I think they'll take their

2491
02:26:42,880 --> 02:26:46,800
pregnant wife and be like, oh, I
I thought you'd really like to

2492
02:26:46,800 --> 02:26:48,320
go ice skating.
You're only nine months

2493
02:26:48,320 --> 02:26:51,840
pregnant.
I forgot, you know, there's

2494
02:26:51,840 --> 02:26:53,400
always this schmuck out there
that's like that.

2495
02:26:53,720 --> 02:26:56,280
That's not Joseph, you know,
that's not, that's not what

2496
02:26:56,280 --> 02:26:58,720
happened.
And I think that paints a much

2497
02:26:58,720 --> 02:27:01,520
more beautiful setup for
Christ's family.

2498
02:27:01,520 --> 02:27:07,680
OK.
I only, I only laugh.

2499
02:27:08,240 --> 02:27:11,560
Forgive me because, you know,
you'd have to live with me.

2500
02:27:11,560 --> 02:27:13,280
And I may edit this part.
I don't know.

2501
02:27:13,880 --> 02:27:16,720
But Tanya was like, hey, are you
going to have all your podcasts

2502
02:27:16,720 --> 02:27:19,080
arranged so that when I go into
labor, you don't have to worry

2503
02:27:19,080 --> 02:27:21,280
about it?
And I was like, arranged.

2504
02:27:21,280 --> 02:27:23,960
What are you talking about?
We're going to do a podcast

2505
02:27:23,960 --> 02:27:25,800
right in the middle of that.
You know how many ratings I

2506
02:27:25,800 --> 02:27:30,360
could grab with that complete
joke, but nonetheless.

2507
02:27:30,360 --> 02:27:33,960
Good material here.
Right.

2508
02:27:34,320 --> 02:27:37,920
Nonetheless, I thought, you
know, you were speaking about

2509
02:27:37,920 --> 02:27:39,400
schmuck husbands and I just
couldn't.

2510
02:27:39,400 --> 02:27:43,760
Help myself.
Well, to be fair, my first

2511
02:27:43,800 --> 02:27:47,480
mother-in-law was skiing and
water skiing and nine months

2512
02:27:47,480 --> 02:27:50,280
pregnant.
That's just the type of woman

2513
02:27:50,280 --> 02:27:53,560
she was So.
And it wasn't because her

2514
02:27:53,560 --> 02:27:55,480
husband was a schmuck.
She just wanted to.

2515
02:27:56,080 --> 02:27:58,600
Right, right, it looked.
That.

2516
02:27:59,600 --> 02:28:01,520
The sisters get what they want
during that time.

2517
02:28:01,520 --> 02:28:04,920
Period, right?
It did not matter, and rightly

2518
02:28:04,920 --> 02:28:07,080
so.
Not everybody is built the same,

2519
02:28:07,080 --> 02:28:08,600
so I guess some people can do
that.

2520
02:28:09,040 --> 02:28:11,480
Right.
You know, Drew, I am so glad we

2521
02:28:11,480 --> 02:28:17,040
did this because I don't.
There has been so much made

2522
02:28:17,040 --> 02:28:18,880
about this one particular
holiday.

2523
02:28:19,000 --> 02:28:22,320
And look, it's no secret I'm
kind of a fan of it, right?

2524
02:28:22,320 --> 02:28:26,920
I enjoyed this time of year and
I've had people say, oh, well,

2525
02:28:26,920 --> 02:28:29,800
it's got Pagan roots and it's
got this and it's got that.

2526
02:28:30,520 --> 02:28:36,240
Well, that might be true.
That might be true.

2527
02:28:36,480 --> 02:28:40,360
However, I think you've done a
good job first to show that this

2528
02:28:40,360 --> 02:28:44,600
might actually be in
commemoration of not just the

2529
02:28:44,600 --> 02:28:47,360
Savior's birth, but when when
those magi show up.

2530
02:28:47,800 --> 02:28:49,760
Right?
That would make sense with the

2531
02:28:49,760 --> 02:28:51,520
time frame.
That's actually early Christian

2532
02:28:51,520 --> 02:28:53,160
tradition.
That's what they believed.

2533
02:28:53,720 --> 02:28:56,680
Right.
The other thing I'm going to say

2534
02:28:56,680 --> 02:29:02,160
is even if it does fall on those
days, I think it's important to

2535
02:29:02,160 --> 02:29:05,240
remember I alluded to this
earlier that when the children

2536
02:29:05,240 --> 02:29:09,560
of Israel were leaving Egypt,
the Egyptians threw gold at

2537
02:29:09,560 --> 02:29:13,120
them.
Just take our money and leave

2538
02:29:13,120 --> 02:29:14,840
sort of a thing.
Yeah.

2539
02:29:15,400 --> 02:29:20,120
They get out to the wilderness
and they do two things with that

2540
02:29:20,120 --> 02:29:25,280
gold.
They adorn the Tabernacle with

2541
02:29:25,280 --> 02:29:29,360
it and the Ark of the Covenant,
and they make a golden calf.

2542
02:29:30,040 --> 02:29:32,040
Now is it the gold that's the
problem?

2543
02:29:32,800 --> 02:29:35,000
No, it's not.
It's not the gold that's the

2544
02:29:35,000 --> 02:29:39,120
problem, no more than it's a
hammer's problem if it no more

2545
02:29:39,120 --> 02:29:40,440
than it's a problem with the
hammer.

2546
02:29:40,440 --> 02:29:43,680
If you use it to whack your
buddy upside the head, right?

2547
02:29:45,360 --> 02:29:47,440
It's all about how you're going
to use these things.

2548
02:29:48,040 --> 02:29:50,840
So you can use it to do
something to point towards the

2549
02:29:50,840 --> 02:29:54,040
Savior, or you can use it to
point something towards Babylon.

2550
02:29:54,200 --> 02:29:57,720
Your call.
But I, I don't think we should

2551
02:29:57,720 --> 02:30:01,520
necessarily just give it up
because the world has espoused

2552
02:30:01,520 --> 02:30:05,120
it or a version of it.
But in order to get to there,

2553
02:30:05,120 --> 02:30:07,720
Drew, I think these
conversations are important

2554
02:30:07,720 --> 02:30:11,280
because you got to know what it
is that you're professing to

2555
02:30:11,280 --> 02:30:13,040
believe.
And then you've got to be

2556
02:30:13,040 --> 02:30:16,640
willing to lay aside certain
traditions for the sake of

2557
02:30:16,640 --> 02:30:19,440
truth.
And that can be hard to do, but

2558
02:30:19,440 --> 02:30:22,240
I think there's real fulfillment
to be found in doing that.

2559
02:30:24,040 --> 02:30:25,520
Excuse me?
Yeah, I agree.

2560
02:30:25,880 --> 02:30:31,920
I and and I've, to the
consternation of both my wives

2561
02:30:31,920 --> 02:30:38,480
and children at times, I I have
really emphasized and focused on

2562
02:30:38,480 --> 02:30:42,280
having a nativity being the
centerpiece of the holidays.

2563
02:30:43,200 --> 02:30:49,520
And often we'll keep it open and
available in the house until

2564
02:30:49,520 --> 02:30:53,120
Easter.
Not all the time the same thing.

2565
02:30:53,960 --> 02:30:56,040
Yeah.
And you know, sometimes I've,

2566
02:30:56,160 --> 02:30:58,640
I've had complaints and say,
well, that just puts a Christmas

2567
02:30:58,640 --> 02:31:01,360
presents underneath the nativity
set and that just kind of takes

2568
02:31:01,360 --> 02:31:06,360
away from the purpose as opposed
to separating it by the the

2569
02:31:06,360 --> 02:31:11,040
Pagan tree, whether or not you
believe it's a Jeremiah 10 or

2570
02:31:11,040 --> 02:31:14,200
whatever.
That is so beautifully describes

2571
02:31:14,200 --> 02:31:20,080
the Christmas tree, you know,
you know, but I, for me, it's

2572
02:31:20,320 --> 02:31:24,520
like whatever's going on there,
if, if you're understanding that

2573
02:31:24,520 --> 02:31:28,920
the nativity is representation,
those crushes, whatever you want

2574
02:31:28,920 --> 02:31:34,800
to call them, of two events,
both the birth and the magi

2575
02:31:34,880 --> 02:31:37,080
appearing and sometimes the
shepherds too.

2576
02:31:38,640 --> 02:31:39,960
So you've got three different
events.

2577
02:31:40,560 --> 02:31:44,320
But if you're understanding,
it's two different events and

2578
02:31:44,320 --> 02:31:48,080
you're understanding the, that
there was symbolic value for the

2579
02:31:48,080 --> 02:31:54,560
gifts that were given and, and,
and that that whole genealogy of

2580
02:31:54,560 --> 02:31:57,880
that story in the 1st place with
Adam and Eve getting them first.

2581
02:31:59,680 --> 02:32:02,240
I, I think that kind of gives
you different perspective of the

2582
02:32:02,240 --> 02:32:05,000
gift giving too, and what, what
that's about.

2583
02:32:05,720 --> 02:32:11,200
And maybe if you're didn't do as
good a job as a parent that year

2584
02:32:11,200 --> 02:32:14,520
and all you bought is the kids
was video games, maybe that

2585
02:32:14,800 --> 02:32:19,120
symbolism doesn't do a whole lot
of good underneath the nativity

2586
02:32:19,120 --> 02:32:23,080
set, you know, having only video
only video games there.

2587
02:32:23,560 --> 02:32:27,200
And, and, and I don't like video
games myself much, But I'm, I'm

2588
02:32:27,200 --> 02:32:31,560
not trying to, to emphasize that
detail so much as I'm saying, if

2589
02:32:31,560 --> 02:32:35,000
you made something for your
child or you bought them some

2590
02:32:35,000 --> 02:32:40,720
clothes and some toys or useful
gifts for them as well as fun

2591
02:32:40,720 --> 02:32:44,440
gifts.
But if you're, if you're really

2592
02:32:44,440 --> 02:32:47,600
focusing and talking about the
story of the magi coming and

2593
02:32:47,600 --> 02:32:51,880
expressing love through gift
giving as one of the five love

2594
02:32:51,880 --> 02:32:55,720
languages, and you know, you're
trying to be thoughtful about it

2595
02:32:56,920 --> 02:33:01,240
and get people something that's
unique and special to them as

2596
02:33:01,240 --> 02:33:07,480
opposed to their sibling, then,
you know, that whole tradition

2597
02:33:07,480 --> 02:33:10,760
of gift giving can be a lot more
meaningful as well.

2598
02:33:12,040 --> 02:33:16,160
At any rate, I try to instill
that by by teaching the, the

2599
02:33:16,160 --> 02:33:20,880
magi story and how they gave
gifts and the symbolisms behind

2600
02:33:20,880 --> 02:33:24,000
the gifts and the thoughtfulness
of that whole process.

2601
02:33:25,400 --> 02:33:26,800
And I've, I've been really
gratified.

2602
02:33:26,800 --> 02:33:30,280
I've got, you know, some, some
older kids that, that are super

2603
02:33:30,280 --> 02:33:33,840
thoughtful about it.
And it's not just a, Oh, I'm

2604
02:33:33,840 --> 02:33:35,840
expected to give gifts.
It's that time of year.

2605
02:33:35,840 --> 02:33:39,560
I have to go buy something.
But it's a really thoughtful,

2606
02:33:40,880 --> 02:33:45,160
what can I get this person that
shows my love to them and honors

2607
02:33:45,160 --> 02:33:50,560
their unique individuality and
anyway in ways that they're

2608
02:33:50,560 --> 02:33:53,440
better at it than I am.
So that's real.

2609
02:33:53,440 --> 02:33:56,040
That's really nice.
But in anyway, my point is

2610
02:33:56,080 --> 02:34:00,960
that's that's something that can
function as a nice merger of of

2611
02:34:00,960 --> 02:34:03,720
the holiday.
And I think back to what you

2612
02:34:03,720 --> 02:34:06,160
were saying too.
I'm just basically agreeing with

2613
02:34:06,160 --> 02:34:07,840
you.
I guess I can just say I agree,

2614
02:34:08,360 --> 02:34:10,600
but I'm too verbose to do so, I
guess.

2615
02:34:11,320 --> 02:34:14,040
But the, the other thing I think
that's important to remember is

2616
02:34:14,160 --> 02:34:17,800
I, I constantly asked myself,
what is the nature of God?

2617
02:34:19,320 --> 02:34:24,520
How would he, what would he be
like during this holiday season?

2618
02:34:26,480 --> 02:34:30,480
And you could say, well, Jesus
overthrew the temple, overthrew

2619
02:34:30,480 --> 02:34:34,160
the tables of the temple and
whipped people and wove had nine

2620
02:34:34,160 --> 02:34:36,920
tails and maybe hurt some people
in the process and let off

2621
02:34:37,920 --> 02:34:39,920
sheeps escape.
And you know, there's I mean,

2622
02:34:39,920 --> 02:34:41,800
there's there's that side of
him, to be fair.

2623
02:34:43,080 --> 02:34:46,320
But I think if he was in our
society today and looking around

2624
02:34:46,320 --> 02:34:49,200
and saying, you know, I've got
some people trying to honor me,

2625
02:34:50,280 --> 02:34:56,160
maybe misguidedly and some
people not, I'll take the

2626
02:34:56,160 --> 02:35:01,880
misguided worship and the
misguided efforts to copy me and

2627
02:35:01,880 --> 02:35:05,800
build on that.
You know, that's what we see in

2628
02:35:05,840 --> 02:35:09,480
every situation through all of
Scriptures where he'd say

2629
02:35:10,040 --> 02:35:11,840
there's beauty that comes out of
people.

2630
02:35:11,840 --> 02:35:14,280
Christmas that doesn't come out
the rest of the year.

2631
02:35:14,560 --> 02:35:18,080
People tend to be more loving
and giving, more soft hearted,

2632
02:35:18,800 --> 02:35:23,240
more thoughtful about the beggar
on the street and these types of

2633
02:35:23,240 --> 02:35:25,520
things.
And, you know, should that

2634
02:35:25,520 --> 02:35:28,360
happen all year round?
Yeah, it doesn't know.

2635
02:35:28,680 --> 02:35:32,800
But that holiday brings that out
of people.

2636
02:35:33,240 --> 02:35:37,240
So let's magnify that.
Let's build upon that and and

2637
02:35:37,240 --> 02:35:39,720
strengthen it.
And I to me, that's what I see

2638
02:35:39,720 --> 02:35:43,440
God would be doing, not
destroying it and not saying,

2639
02:35:43,520 --> 02:35:45,160
oh, well, this just has Pagan
roots.

2640
02:35:45,640 --> 02:35:49,840
This is because the fertility
goddess, you know, was, was

2641
02:35:49,840 --> 02:35:52,360
merged from sun worship or
whatever it is that people are

2642
02:35:52,360 --> 02:35:54,560
worried about.
You know, there's always

2643
02:35:54,560 --> 02:35:58,360
something evil to be found
everywhere, especially

2644
02:35:58,360 --> 02:35:59,720
Halloween.
That's a different story.

2645
02:36:00,520 --> 02:36:01,360
Yes.
Yes.

2646
02:36:03,080 --> 02:36:07,000
But there's so much good in it
that's available and it does

2647
02:36:07,000 --> 02:36:09,680
historically coincide with the,
with the visit of the Magi.

2648
02:36:09,840 --> 02:36:15,120
So, you know, I, I think, I
think it's, there's, there's,

2649
02:36:15,120 --> 02:36:17,720
there's beauty to be found
there, not just completely blown

2650
02:36:17,720 --> 02:36:20,840
off, But that's just, that's
just me.

2651
02:36:21,760 --> 02:36:24,480
Nope, I'm with you, Drew.
Well, man, this was awesome.

2652
02:36:27,000 --> 02:36:29,640
Fancy again beforehand.
You have a good Christmas, man.

2653
02:36:30,360 --> 02:36:32,160
Likewise.
Yeah, I love you.

2654
02:36:32,160 --> 02:36:34,120
I love these conversations we
have.

2655
02:36:34,600 --> 02:36:35,760
I love the work you do.
Drew.

2656
02:36:35,760 --> 02:36:38,320
You're you're a good man.
And I'm I'm grateful to count

2657
02:36:38,320 --> 02:36:40,800
you as a friend.
Thanks likewise.

2658
02:36:41,360 --> 02:36:48,160
Yeah, I'm, I'm great grateful to
be able to, to to chat about all

2659
02:36:48,160 --> 02:36:50,200
these things to, to good
audience.

2660
02:36:50,200 --> 02:36:53,120
I, I think you know, you've got
a lot of people who are

2661
02:36:53,120 --> 02:36:57,280
searching for truth on this
channel and, and super, super

2662
02:36:57,280 --> 02:37:00,360
important topic that's ignored a
lot, but I'm super passionate

2663
02:37:00,400 --> 02:37:03,320
about as you can tell by my my
nerdocracy.

2664
02:37:04,280 --> 02:37:08,440
Awesome, Drew, anything else you
want to say before we wrap this

2665
02:37:08,440 --> 02:37:13,560
up, big guy?
Not, not, not that I could think

2666
02:37:13,600 --> 02:37:16,280
of.
I mean, we didn't cover the,

2667
02:37:16,280 --> 02:37:18,680
the, the visit of the shepherds.
I don't think there's a whole

2668
02:37:18,680 --> 02:37:22,040
lot of big insight there and
some other little details, but

2669
02:37:22,640 --> 02:37:25,600
I, I think we pretty much
covered the, the meaty stuff.

2670
02:37:26,280 --> 02:37:27,960
Well, that's good enough for me,
man.

2671
02:37:27,960 --> 02:37:29,480
We're going to do our 2 1/2
hours.

2672
02:37:29,480 --> 02:37:31,280
So we definitely did our due
diligence.

2673
02:37:31,560 --> 02:37:34,200
Right.
Well, we can keep going if you

2674
02:37:34,200 --> 02:37:34,640
need it.
Don't.

2675
02:37:35,040 --> 02:37:35,480
Worry.
No.

2676
02:37:35,480 --> 02:37:37,840
No, I think we're good.
Not that I didn't enjoy that,

2677
02:37:37,840 --> 02:37:39,520
but let's save some for next
year.

2678
02:37:40,200 --> 02:37:42,800
So awesome.
All right.

2679
02:37:42,800 --> 02:37:44,680
Well, Drew again, man, I
appreciate hanging out.

2680
02:37:44,680 --> 02:37:47,200
Five minutes and we'll see
everyone else later.

2681
02:37:47,440 --> 02:37:48,080
Bye all.
Right.

2682
02:37:48,080 --> 02:37:49,160
Take care.
God bless.