Episode #221: Having Our Feet In The Gospel Of Peace W/Joni Molloy

0:13 Joni, how's it going? Wonderful. How are you, Dave? I'm I'm doing better now, but there for a hot minute I was pretty sleep but deprived, I'm not going to lie. And as a guy who hasn't had a baby in the house in 20 years, pushing 20 years, it was like it took me a hot minute to get to get those, to put that hat back on, so to speak. But it's going good now. In fact, I don't get much chance to hold the little guy as much as I thought because I'm sharing in between Amber and Tanya. So it's. Yeah, No, but no. It's good. It's going good. Blessed. I'm. I'm very blessed. Oh. Yeah, so blessed. That's so fun.

0:54 Yep, Yep. How are you guys doing? We're doing well, yeah, Corey's under the weather, but besides that, pretty good. I think everybody's under the weather right now. Everybody OK, bring him here. Bring him here. Shameless. Plug this. Is all for ratings. This is all for ratings. Hello sweet little baby. Hi, baby. Asher, he's a little milk trunk at the moment, but he's he's doing OK. Right, He's not where they, he's not seeing anything beyond a little bit of light yet, so. No, no, he's yeah, he, he, he eats and and he gets to that, that phase where he just wants to sleep now. So which is nice.

1:45 He, he is a good sleeper. We have that going for us. So he he enjoys his sleep, so has not yet developed his old man's tendency to stay up at all hours of the night researching obscure things and stalking away, knowledge that can only be useful on Jeopardy. We're on a podcast. We're we're. On a podcast, right, right, right. Yeah, No, it's true. It's true. So someday I'm sure he'll listen to all these episodes after I'm long gone and been like, man, the old man had some thoughts but not sure they were good ones so. Oh no. But anyway, no good stuff. So, so you have the the gospel of peace, right? Yeah, feet shot in preparation for the Gospel of peace. But I have a few addendums for Corey's, which was the breastplate of righteousness.

2:38 Yeah, let's. Do it. So he wanted me to share some of my thoughts. He didn't get to. He talked a lot about meekness and since his is going to come out before mine, we'll just kind of add on to that meekness and compassion, having a pure heart. And he wanted to share some of the talk of Brad Wilcox, his most famous talk, the the one on grace. And we were talking about that talk and he wanted me to share my thoughts on it. And it starts out, if you remember, where the girl comes into his office and he's retelling how she's like, you know, I keep trying, but I mess up and I keep messing up. And, you know, there's that scripture in in Nephi that talks about we're saved by grace after all we can do, but I can't even do much, you know?

3:33 So I'm really fail failing here. And he says, well, draw a lot. I'm gonna draw a dot. Here's Jesus and here's you. How much do you think you're doing and how much do you think he's doing? And so he kind of elaborates on that story saying, you know, she's like, I knew I wasn't doing enough. And he's like, no, really. It's more like the piano analogy. Your parents pay for the piano lessons not because they want you to ever pay them back, but because they want you to become a piano player. And their only joy is that you learn to play the piano. And I was saying, well, for those of us who had parents who gave us piano lessons and we kind of drag our feet on practicing, that still just doesn't capture the change of heart that we're supposed to have. And so I said, I feel like it's more like somebody paid off your mortgage.

4:28 Like, how would you feel if that person came back and asked you to do anything? You'd be like, drop everything. I'm going to do it. And I guess later last year, he was on a podcast and was sharing his Grace is sufficient topic more and he compared it to like getting a scholarship. You know, you you get a scholarship, but that doesn't mean you don't do the work. And so that was one thing that we were talking about that Corey wanted me to share about on. That, you know, it's such an interesting thing, right? And as I've looked at it, sometimes we get beat up by our, our sectarian Christian brothers and sisters because they say that we, we, we say grace really isn't a thing, right?

5:17 And it's, it's somewhat interesting in that it that's not necessarily true, right? And I think it's, I think where, where the hang up gets to Joni is that for Mormons, there is saved and then there's exaltation, right? And where's there is no doubt that grace plays a huge part of that salvatic portion, portion of that, right, That being able to be saved. Exaltation's a different animal though, right? Exaltation is, is our covenants between US and God, right? And that's what's going to dictate where we land in that exaltation sphere, right?

6:00 And so oftentimes I've looked at it, especially when I'm talking to, to, to different types of Christians who are, who do you put that heavy emphasis on grace? I'm like, no, we, I, I understand that we can't get to exaltation without, without salvation, right? It's just part of it. It would like it would be trying to drive a car with everything except a motor, right? You're just not going to go anywhere. Now, once, once you have the motor, you can do some things, but until you have that, there's not much. And so, so often I've looked at that and I thought about that a lot when I first heard, heard Brad Wilcox talk, Gosh, probably the better part 10 years ago now, if I'm not mistaken, where I was like, well, he's not necessarily wrong.

6:48 And sometimes I think it's helpful to to show the dichotomy there right, between salvation and exaltation, because they are two different things, especially in the Mormon lexicon. Right. And when I moved to Utah, I started to understand how important that topic was to specifically to the culture within Utah because there is a big perfectionist culture there. And like Curry talked about on his podcast, being perfect in the Hebrew sense is that it's complete or it's whole. A good analogy is like, nobody looks at an acorn in the ground and says, gosh, why aren't you a tree yet, you know? And nobody looks at the sapling and says, why aren't you a mighty oak, You know, it's like it's perfect in the stage that it's at, and that kind of shows the progression as to how you get to where you're going.

7:47 And that perfection doesn't mean what we think it means. Anyway, those are some of my attendance. Absolutely. And I'm glad that you stayed away from the piano analogy because look, I'm a guy who's not musically inclined at all. Like if, if, if music, you know, if my ability to play music was tied to anything salvatic or, you know, of salvation or exaltation, I'd be up Creek. It was so bad. Like I remember I was in Junior. This is horrible. I was in junior high and I had, I had they, they made you take either like 1 semester of like choir or the band or whatever. Well, I already knew I couldn't sing. That was out the window, right?

8:30 So my next best hope was like an instrument, right? And I'm playing the Cuba and I am maybe, maybe 4 weeks into the, into the semester and the, the band teacher, he's like, hey, after, after class, I'm going to talk to you for a minute. I'm like, sure. And class gets over and he goes, are you enjoying this? And I'm like, not so much. And he's like, I'm glad because this is not your thing. You should get this over with and never, ever do it again. And like what some some people may have been like, well, that was horrible. I actually respected it. I'm like, thank you for pointing that out because yeah, no, this is not great.

9:14 So I'm glad that the music analogy was was out the window and they went with the mortgage. I think that's way better. So it's a little less close to home for Dave. Right, right. Anyway, so mine's feet shot in preparation for the gospel of peace. And so the first thing that stood out to me is, you know, you're supposed to put on the full armor of God so you can withstand the Wiles of the devil, and your feet will be shod with the preparation for the gospel of peace. And so the first thing that stood out is that's kind of a contradiction, right? We're preparing for battle while we're preparing for peace. And so we're told a lot that contentions of the devil, and I think sometimes we misunderstand a little bit of what contention is.

10:06 I was pretty active in politics, so I understand how to agree, agree, disagree agreeably a little bit more than some people do because I was a paid activist. So, you know, I had to be in the fight. And it was kind of fun. I liked it actually. So how do we arm ourselves for a fight while we're also preparing for peace? And DNC 18, you know, mentions the worth of souls. And it that interestingly, in verse 20, it says contend against no church but the Church of the devil. So that's one thing that we know about contention actually is that there is a time to contend.

10:48 And DNC 10 also tells us not to contend specifically with each other on points of doctrine. And I thought, well, that's very interesting. You know, how often do we get caught up in this? Well, I'm right and you're wrong. Instead of trying to let some things go that maybe don't matter at the moment and try and find unity in Zion. 100%, I think, I think you're really on to some stuff there, right? Right, so. One of the sorry I hit, I hit my mic and it accidentally turned it off. You can hear me OK, right?

11:30 No, I can. Yes. OK, perfect. One of the things I thought about as I first went through that scripture was your legs and your feet are pretty important, right? Like if we were to look at like, oh, going back to athletics, right? I remember as as a as an offensive lineman, one of the things we were taught is you never let your feet stop moving ever. Your feet always move. The other thing was is that when when we went to train specifically for our position, it was a lot of legs, right? We did a lot of like being explosive, being able to have that good base because as go your legs goes the fight, right? If your legs can't hold up, who knows. And so the the other thing that jumped out to me and you mentioned it right with with preparing for peace at the same time you're preparing for war.

12:27 Sometimes I ask the question will peace for who, peace for my adversary or peace for me, right? Like there is a certain piece that comes when you feel like you're prepared, right? I, I really feel like that that that that's you're, you're really on to something there. Right. And actually that's I love the topical guide. So that was where my mind went first. I said, well, I want to read all the scriptures on peace. And I thought first this has got to be about faith and action and all of those good things. But actually the scriptures about feet are more about stand firm. So let's see.

13:12 So stand there for having your loin skirt with about with truth and having on the breastpate of rice righteousness. Even that scripture prior to the feet shod one says to stand firm and then and your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of feast feet, peace, goodness. And yeah. So there's a couple of scriptures about feet, you know, that we're probably familiar with. Some, you know, stand in holy places, be not moved. But when I was looking in kind of the Old Testament, it also has to do with dominion. You know, Thou made us him to have dominion over the works of thy hands. Thou put all things under his feet, Speaking of the the Lord, and the earth is his footstool. And then one day we will stand before the Lord at judgment day. So and then we have a King Nebuchadnezzar's dream, where at the bottom there's the feet, which Daniel interprets as the kingdoms of the earth, and they're made of both clay, some weak kingdoms like clay, and then some strong like iron. And then at some future time, the stone cut out of the mountain without hands will come and fill the earth and the gospel of pieces.

14:29 You know, that time when Christ will come and return and fill the earth. But yeah, the feat actually was more about dominion and standing firm and strong, which is kind of quite pertinent to the last days and our our times and prophecies. You know, it says that things are going to get pretty rough from here on out. I love American history, and I know you do, too. So you're probably familiar with John Adams. He was ambassador to France for some time, and he and Abigail would write these wonderful letters, his wife, Abigail Adams. And so one of his letters he writes here, he talks about how, gosh, I'm surrounded by this beautiful architecture, these gardens and everything in Paris.

15:20 I wish I had time to, you know, go and explore and describe them to you. But my heart's too anxious because I must study war and politics so that my children can study the things of peace, architecture, art, mathematics and music and all of that. And that always just really touched me. You know, it shows the sacrifice of those, you know, not just the Founding Fathers, but of anyone who is given a time of life, of war instead of peace. Yeah, I, you know, it, it's funny.

16:04 You should bring that up because since Asher has been born, I've thought a lot about why I do the things I do. Gosh, now we're going to get into, like, Dave's psychoanalysis. So forgive me here, but I, I sat there and I, I, I was holding them and I thought, man, I got to go now tear off and I got to go back to work, right? And I got to go, go do the podcast and it stopped. Like everything in me would be perfectly content. Let me rephrase that. I think I could be content for a little while just being anonymous, hanging out, holding my baby, loving my wives, doing my temple work.

17:03 I would be totally OK with that for a while. But I don't think that's the time I live in. And this applies to my other kids as well as Asher, but I think Asher is new enough that, and he's my first child born in in fundamentalism. And there was a renewed sense of fight in my bones, in my gut that fired right back up that I thought had made me waned a little bit. And I was like, no, I'm not done kicking indoors. We're, we're just getting started because I don't ever want to have to have my son live in the shadows, right?

17:55 I'll tear down whatever wall, I'll take off any door off of its hinges, whatever I got to do. And so before where I was starting to feel a little bit, I won't say tired, but maybe a little bit worn down Now I'm feeling like, oh, I'm just getting started. And somewhere somebody just had a children down their spine 'cause they're like, no, I'm sick of hearing them. Anyway, I, I don't think those are the times any of us live in right now, right? It's been a beautiful year. And in some ways it's been a weird year. As you know, I'm older now than my dad was when he passed away, right? That was weird, right?

18:35 And the whole time expecting a baby, that was weird. And then when Charlie Kirk went down, got assassinated, I felt like there was a seismic shift in things. And if you're going to stand, it's going, it's going to incur wrath. It's the only way. It's going to be something that ties into that a little bit. I was when, when Amber and I went back east, there were so many things I was showing this time around, like when I first got the prompting, hey, you got to go back east and you got to look at some stuff again. I thought, man, I lived back there, right? I've seen it.

19:18 I've seen it all at least two dozen times. But no, I got to go back and I remember I was in Independence Hall there in Philadelphia, and we were really fortunate that there was an Eagles game. So it actually was pretty quiet that day, right? We were there on a Sunday. And so I was just sitting in there. You know, I could see Washington's chair where he said that, which is the only original piece of furniture that's in there. There's period pieces in there that come from the same time. But the only documented piece of furniture that was there during the Constitutional convention is Washington's chair. And I was sitting there and, and I was just like, father, what? What is it I'm supposed to take away here? I do not understand.

20:04 Show me. And I got the prompting to read the deck, the Declaration of Independence and. That first line jumped out at me. We hold these truths to be self-evident and it it dawned on me. Speaking truth in a time when society is coming undone is a revolutionary act. And I think we are there right I think. I think it now falls to men and women of Christ to be steadfast and immovable, to plant your feet and in some ways get real uncomfortable with being uncomfortable because I don't think it's going to get easier from this point forward.

20:58 I agree 100%. And I kind of felt that shift in 2020 myself. And for the first time, you know, I've been so engaged in politics for the first time, it kind of was a, a shift in there's not going to be a politician to come and save us from ourselves. And I'm going to get more into that a little bit. But first, when I was looking up the peace scriptures, 'cause that was the other word that stuck out. So I went to the topical guide and browsed through all the peace scriptures. You know, when that stuck out as Matthew 1034, think not that I am come to send peace on earth. I am not to send peace, but a sword where Christ is talking and then he describes all these horrible scenes at the last days. And this is in response to the question of, you know, what's it going to be like at the last days? Being hated by all men.

21:52 Fear not those who killed the body, only the soul. If you deny me before men, I will deny you before the Father. Your own household, your father, sister, mother, brother will be against you. And those who will not take up their cross aren't worthy of Savior, you know, So I just thought that was really, really, you know, some of these scriptures kind of hit really hard. And then DNC 135. I have a lot of scriptures, so I'm going to look down at notes a lot too. For I. Am no respecter persons, and will that all men shall know that the day speedily cometh the hour is not yet, but is not at hand.

22:36 When peace shall be taken from the earth, and the devil shall have power over his own dominion. And you know that's what the temple says as well about dominion. And interesting that we're going back to this word dominion, when the feet, you know, we're supposed to stand firm and yet the devil is going to have a season of dominion on the earth that we have to face. And like you said, like man, the I wish I weren't born in these times, but I was also. That's kind of the the quote that came to mind from I love the Fellowship of the Rings, The Lord of the Rings. And Frodo says I wish it need not have happened in my time. And Gandalf the Wise replies, so do I and so do all who live to see such times.

23:26 But it is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time given us. And I just thought that was really, really powerful, 100%. We were sitting here talking. One of the things that occurred to me maybe one of the first scriptures that have to do with with the feet. Is in the Garden of Eden. Right, we go to the old and testaments in the Pearl. Great price. You know what's what? What is it that the Lord tells the adversary you're you'll have power to bruise his heel, but he'll have power to crush your head, right? That will be the instrument by which you just finish it, right. And, and it's interesting when we talk about standing right, it's not necessarily marching off to war more as it is just planting yourself like a tree or a rock and being like, no, you move, I'm not moving.

24:26 This is this is holy ground. You can move around me, but I'm not moving. Right. Absolutely. So the other thing that came up that surprised me actually. Was. Mark 950, it says salt is good, but if the salt have lost it, his saltness, where, wherein will you season it? Have salt in yourselves and have peace one with another. And I thought, well, that's interesting. What does salt have to do with peace, you know, And what does it mean to salt ourselves, really? So apparently in a Google search and from other Scriptorians, not myself, salt is a symbol of loyalty, purity, and an enduring covenant. And that's not LDS, that's just Bible scholars. So that was really interesting in it referenced in Second Kings chapter 2, Elisha heals the poisonous spring in Jericho with salt.

25:30 And the Arabs in those countries to eat a meal together is a symbol of friendship. You know, they have put a high value on hospitality. And so as the Arabs would say, if you sit down to eat together, they would say there's salt between US. And then as I looked more into this. Salt was required. For the meat offering. So you may have heard this before, but I don't know if I have. So in Leviticus 213 it says in every oblation of thy meat offering shalt thou season with salt. Neither shalt thou suffer the salt of the covenant of thy God to be lacking from thy meat offering. With all thine offerings, thou shalt offer salt.

26:13 And I thought that. Was really fascinating 'cause I hadn't realized all of the scriptures about salt kind of reference back to the fact that he's talking to the covenant people who are commanded to give the best offering that they have to the Lord and to salt it. Absolutely. And what's interesting too, if I'm not mistaken, Correct me if I'm wrong here, Joni, 'cause I can usually remember what I read, but I can't remember always where I read it. If I'm not mistaken, it tells you what happens to that salt if it loses its savour. It's cast out and trodden under foot, right? Like there's, there's some imagery there that that's interesting.

26:55 But I, I want, I want to stay there with that right Because. With the salt thing 'cause I. Think it's it's super important. As you were reading through that, what was your take away from that then? I mean, as you read through those scriptures, what pops out at you? What's what's the big take away there? Well, what came? To my mind. And I'm going to get to, I actually have those scriptures about the salt losing its, its savour and being trodden under the feet of men. So which also has feet in it. So I'll get to those in just a second because the first thing that popped into my mind was the the fact that it's a symbol of purity, loyalty and an enduring covenant.

27:37 And one of my favorite books is Mark Twain's least known book of all time. He wrote a book about Joan of Arc called Recollections of Joan of Arc. And it's it's her page from her pages perspective. And so it's historical fiction. And here's what he said about this book. On his 73rd birthday and just a year and a half before his death, Mark Twain declared I like Joan of Arc best of all my books. And it is the best I. Know it perfectly well and besides, it furnished me 7 times the pleasure afforded me by any of the others. 12 years of preparation and two years of writing. The others needed no preparation and got none. And I thought, wow, that's really fascinating. He spent 12 years writing this book and nobody even knows he really wrote it.

28:30 We're all you know. He's famous for Huckleberry Finn and and Tom Sawyer, and this one is really different than all of his other books. It doesn't have the same humor laced into everything. He's not poking fun at anyone. He has a deep respect for her and it just flows through the pages in the story. He described her as the most noble life that was ever born, save only one. Of course, you know Jesus. And he also noted that Joan of Arc's the only person in all of recorded history at the age of 17, male or female, to lead an entire army.

29:11 What stood out to me in this book is what she did with the soldiers. They were completely loyal to her. So the, the Prince is kind of a coward and he's gone into hiding and she rallies all these, you know, all the troops and these men more than twice her age. And this is war. These are harsh men. And what she does is, you know, armies at that time and maybe all times have like prostitutes following the camp and, and it's kind of a rough scene, you know, and, and so she says, no, we're not going to if, if God's on our side, we can't have this. And so she makes them clean up their language.

29:53 She kicks out the prostitutes and you know, it's really fascinating because they're so loyal that they did all that, at least the the superiors, you know, I don't know how the the rank members felt about about her about it, but we know that, you know, the other officers absolutely respected and enforced that level of purity that she required of them. There was no prostitutes. There was no foul language. And she really said, hey, if we're going to do what God intends us to do and save France, then we've got to get our act together. And they did, they followed her and they, they did. It's really a beautiful story.

30:37 But that part stood out because of the purity, loyalty, and an enduring covenant. You know, we, we want God's help and we need to be him to be on our side. But are we on his side? Have we purified our hearts, you know, so that we can have the enduring covenant 'cause there's going to be some enduring coming up? If if Mark 10 and Matthew 24 are all those end time prophecies, even half of them come in any of our lifetimes, we're all going to be tested and tried for sure, 100%. One of the things I thought about is another function of that salt is a preservative. Right, it was used in preserving. Meat and if we look back at Genesis and we look at what Abraham does is he bargains for the Lord right save the city for 100 good people.

31:39 Would you save the city for I? I think he goes down to 10 and then all the way eventually down to one, right? I don't. Think and and. I think we can see this kind of like you said with Joan of Arc there, right, where she understood that if they wanted to win, they were going to need the blessings of the Lord. And you said one other thing that that I have talked about a few different times, and I believe it's absolutely true. And you kind of brought up the difference between God being on our side and us purifying our hearts to be on his side, right? Those are two incredibly different things. And I think you're in American history buff too.

32:22 So you, you may have already picked up on this. If I look at the founders and, and I, you know, you, you listen to what the founders say, they talk a lot about being reliant on divine Providence, right? And then if you start looking at the context that surrounds that line, when they use it, it becomes readily apparent. It's always like calling for a day of Thanksgiving and humiliation, right? Which is usually a day of fasting to to beseech heaven for her, her her protection, that divine Providence and protection. And so there's this feeling of. Us trying to be on God's side and then something really interesting happens during Andrew Jackson's administration.

33:07 We have Manifest destiny, and if you read the sermons from Manifest Destiny now, lots of people love Manifest destiny. And I'm not saying that it was all horrific. I'm a fan of westward migration. I thought that was good. But there's no doubt that if you listen to the if, if you read some of the sermons that are given, it's different. It's no, no, no, no. God's on our side. Manifest destiny doesn't matter what we do, we are justified. God is in our on our side. So we go take the West. Pardon the expression, but. To hell with those people, right? The Native Americans make a March. This is our destiny.

33:49 God has foreordained it. We're going to go there's. Something that. Goes. Dark when you when? You go from, excuse me when you go from saying I'm going to be on God's side to no, no, no, God's on my side there. There's a shift that happens in perception and it it can produce some really ugly things. Oh. Absolutely. 100% I want to read the scriptures about the salt because it brings up something really interesting in those scriptures. So on DNC one one O 139, when men are called into mine everlasting gospel and covenant with an everlasting covenant, they are counted as the salt of the earth and the savor of men.

34:34 So when we say salt. Those who have. Lost their saltiness. We are talking about members of the church because they are the only ones who have the salt of the covenant. So we're not talking about people outside of the covenant. This is covenant language here and DNC clarifies that. So if we think about Christ when he's saying the salt that lost its savour really interesting being trodden under foot. So DNC the next verse says they are called to be the Saber of men. Therefore if the salt of the earth lose its savor, behold, it is henceforth good for nothing, only to be cast out and trodden under the foot of man. But then DNC 1039 repeats this, but says some things distinctly different, and it's really fascinating. It says, for they were set to be light unto the world, and to be saviors of men.

35:34 And inasmuch as they are not saviors of men, they are as salt that has lost its savor, and is thenceforth good for nothing but to be cast out and trodden under the foot of men. So. If we're not. Saviors of men on Mount Zion, we're not doing what you know, if we're not bringing our brothers along with us, we're losing our salt and we better be thinking about that. And that's. Probably. Just as much for me as anyone else. I didn't serve a mission, you know, traditional LDS mission. And so I'm not, I'm not as missionary minded as some people. I'm a little bit more reserved about my beliefs. I'm very opinionated and not afraid to share my voice, but a little more reserved about the spiritual things in my life. And so that's kind of a call to all of us to remember that we're meant to be saviors and a light into the world. Absolutely.

36:37 Absolutely. And so. I I want to tie this portion with salt all together. Were were we pretty much done with the salt portion here? I don't want to jump ahead. So if we're if we're going to tie this together, I think it it's it's this idea that that likes a feat, right? It's, it's one of those things that that we stand right. And likewise, salt being the preservative or the, the, the element that draws out more flavor. If if. People. And and. It being a symbol of covenant, if we don't stand and then we shirk from the covenant, we're the salt that's gone bad.

37:19 And, and we, we lose that opportunity to, to be those saviors as as the scripture says. I, I'll say this though, too, I, I can't help but think that that part of that being saviors isn't just missionary work here on this side of the veil. There's also, you know, allusions to when you start participating in temple things, you become saviors on Mount Zion, right. And so and so if if you were to step away from your covenants, both, both of those things, missionary work and temple work just kind of go out the window. Right, right. There's a lot. More to what that means, you know what your duties are. Savior's on Mount Zion.

38:03 So that's going to be a theme that comes up in the other scriptures. And so it's interesting how these themes are going to reappear in, in the other subjects that I looked up. And then purity, loyalty and the enduring covenant, you know, also come up. And I, I've always struggled with the endure to the end, kind of an LDS, we say, oh, you know, you just have to endure to the end. Well, what does that really mean? You know, that's kind of a hard, intangible idea. I, I like the phrase enduring covenant a lot better, you know, 'cause now it gives me something more tangible. I'm supposed to keep these covenants and stand firm with them.

38:43 You know that at least for me, that feels more tangible, that I'm just like. 100. Percent endurance. And like and and look, some of this can be in translation, right? If, if, if it wasn't a great translation. But sometimes I look at endurance and it almost denotes an inactivity. I'm just going to wait here, right? I'm just going to just going to wait. I'm just going to endure in wherever I'm at. I don't think that's what the Lord wants for his people, right? No, no, no, you go. This is what you do. You go, you go proclaim the gospel. You go do temple work. You go relieve the the suffering of the of the the poor and the you know, the the widows and the orphans and so.

39:29 Yeah, I'm with you sometimes. Endure just doesn't feel like the right word, OK? So. Yeah, the next part I'm going to share is possibly going to get into a little bit of Renegade type stuff here. So look out. I have to share this part because my thoughts on it he really liked and I'm just going to have to follow the the spirit about it. But probably about two or three years ago it started to bother me so. Mary anoints Jesus's feet so once again, the feet scriptures. I was looking up all those but when he when he anoints, when she anoints his feet, it's right before his birth or not his birth, sorry, his death.

40:18 So in preparation for his death and Judas who holds the purse, says, you know, this spike nerd could have been used to feed the poor, you know, and kind of complained and gave her a hard time. Corey looked it up. It was probably worth about 54,000 in U.S. dollars today. So. It's a good. It's a good chunk of. Money. So, you know, that's that's what it is pure nard or spikenard oils made from the roots of a plant. Smells woody, musky, deformed, spicy undertones. Yeah. So just kind of, you know, the fun background. So Mary, we learned that this is Mary of Bethany Lazarus sister. That does it.

41:02 Luke identifies her. And in Matthew 26 and Mark 14, it says wheresoever this Gospel shall be preached throughout the whole world, this also that she hath done shall be spoken of or memorial of her. And that kind of started to bother me. I started to kind of Google and look up, you know, artistic renditions or Christian churches and like who's talking about Mary anointing Jesus and, and who actually preaches that? And you know, a lot of actually Christian churches do focus on her more so than LDS culture does. Yet when you start to realize what the anointing of feat is, that it's.

41:48 Actually. An ordinance that is given, then you realize, oh. You know that this will be. Preached wherever the Gospels had that scripture bothered me for about two or three years, 'cause I didn't know. And I really do wish, you know, we're treading on sacred waters here. So I'll just keep it very limited. But I really do wish that the LDS church spoke. More about. The second anointing few months back. Justin Frankham had an idea to make learning about the fullness of the restored gospel a lot easier.

42:29 It was an idea that once I had my mind wrapped around it, I felt like it could do a lot of good. Mormon Legacy Ministries is a multi denominational ministering effort to provide a safe landing place for Mormons to land until they find their forever church home, while at the same time offering folks an opportunity for worship and fellowship. Here's a little bit of what Mormon Legacy Ministries is offering. Every second and 4th Saturday of the month at 3:00 PM Mountain Standard Time, a sacrament meeting is conducted by Joshua Erickson. Every Thursday at 6:00 PM Mountain Standard Time is the Gospel Fundamentals class hosted by Elior Walker and Braxton Bogart. Quarterly men's meetings are also held. The next one of those will be Saturday, February 14th at 6:00 PM Mountain Standard Time.

43:13 There's a women's organization, and to learn more about that, go to mormonlegacy.org and click on that link. Finally, for a limited time, starting February 2nd at 6:00 PM and every Monday after that at 6:00 PM Mountain Standard Time, a discussion group will be held on the book The 5000 Year Leap by Cleon Skousen. So whether you're an independent Mormon fundamentalist, or maybe you're a Mormon fundamentalist already in a group, but you want more opportunities to learn and serve, or perhaps you're an LDS person wanting to learn more about what your theological cousins believe, or maybe even you're not a Mormon at all and you're just curious about the faith, Mormon Legacy Ministries is the place for you where you can go to learn all those things from the comfort of your own home over Zoom. To get there, all you need to do is go to mormonlegacy.org and then click any or all of those classes that are being offered there.

44:08 Again, that's Mormon legacyministries.org. Go there today and sign up and what it is. Because I remember. That Kate Kelly woman was really. Mad that women didn't have the priesthood and it was just. Joanie, real quick give, give because there's a lot of people who aren't going to on the podcast who aren't going to know who Kate Kelly was because it, you know, it didn't necessarily affected them. Can you just give us some background on who she was so we get the full context of that story yes. So she. Was an activist who felt like she could change the church by being loud and change the church policies and they did kind of cater to her a little bit her she was a feminist who felt that women were not being treated fairly and equally. And I was in Utah at the time, so it was, it was just kind of loud in in your face, you know, like I went to general conference and you would just see the signs and everything about these women just feeling like they didn't have a place in the church because there was an equality because they didn't hold the priesthood.

45:19 And I was told my whole life that women don't hold the priesthood as well. And it was kind of like, well, women have motherhood and men have priesthood. And, you know, I was single for long enough to where it was a little bit of an ache, you know, like, well, what if I don't get motherhood in this life? You know, like, you know, that's not very comforting or consoling. You know, so I could I could kind of see where these women were coming from. And a lot of women, you know, have been abused. And so asking for a priesthood blessing from a male figure in their life, you know, whether it's, you know, friend, father or priest or like Bishop, you know, was a little more difficult for them.

46:05 So a lot of these forums would talk about, well, you know, I prayed A heavenly mother or I, you know, or why can't women give me a blessing for healing because I would feel more comfortable. And those were just such interesting conversations. And I didn't really have a huge, like I didn't have a huge judgment towards them or but I also didn't feel like the way that Kate Kelly was going about it was right. You know, like the church isn't just going to given, given to pressure from a lot of you know, it's not politics in the same way as, you know, I was an activist for politics and, and your political leaders are directly accountable to you because they represent your voice. But your church leaders, it's a little bit different because they're accountable to God and not necessarily to just do what you want or the majority wants.

47:02 It's not a democracy. So that's kind of the background of that conversation. And so this was probably happening about 2015 ish. So. Roughly 10 years ago. And then of course, she ended up being excommunicated in the and it died down. But women were allowed to say prayers in general conference after that, you know, kind of a thing. But when I learned about the second anointing, and like I said, I want to keep this very sacred, it is given mostly to apostles now and is still given, as far as I understand, the women actually are given the priesthood, not like figuratively, but literally. And I would just scratch my head and thought, why couldn't somebody have just said that, you know, why couldn't somebody have just like relieved these women's suffering and pain and said, well, actually, women do get the priesthood, just not all women, which maybe wouldn't have gone over well, you know, if you say it that way.

48:07 But really, that was kind of the The thing is that in the second anointing, there is a washing of feet. And that seems to be what Mary was doing here. And that we do have that as a memorial to her, but we don't really talk about it. So I don't know. It's definitely a fine balance when you talk about spiritual things. And even in my scripture study today, I, I ran into the, the scripture and I have it here somewhere that, where he says, you know the, the reason why? Oh, in Luke 810, Jesus says, and he said unto his disciples, unto you, it is given to know the mysteries of the Kingdom of God.

48:51 But to others in parables that seeing they might not see and hearing they might not understand. And then he references Isaiah and how Isaiah said that you know, your hearts are too hard and you're not ready for this. And that's why we have to speak in parables. But also the Greek word for mystery is mousse. Tarion, if I even say that right, means religious secrets. In other words, something that you're initiated into. So things that you would maybe only learn in the temple in an initiation and isn't meant to be shared to the general populace.

49:33 So, you know, that's anything. You want to add to. That yeah, No, there, there. There's there's quite a bit I'm going to be very careful here in in the next few minutes, but. I think. I think when? We start looking at at something like that. It it's unfortunate. OK, what I'm going to say next I. Am not picking on the church. I am not. I'm I'm going to, I want to get that across. I'm I'm not throwing stones here. I'm just stating a fact. Much of the. Consternation that I. Find out of the sisters these days in the LDS church, and I want to say this, they are asking good questions.

50:21 None of those questions that they're asking are bad questions to ask. They should ask those questions, however. I think the answers to. A lot of those questions that deal with with with things that the sisters are really concerned about Heavenly Mother women in the priesthood are still found within fundamentalism today. Now a woman like Kate Kelly, I, I'm just going to imagine maybe I'm wrong. I'm willing to be wrong here. I'm, I'm going to make a statement, but I'm guessing that somebody who's an avowed feminist, that answer is still not going to be. Good enough?

51:02 Because they're going to say it's got to be without the man, right? Well, the gospel doesn't work that way, just like it doesn't work for the man without the woman, right? This is mutually exclusive on that ordinance you just talked about. A single guy can't get that. A single woman can't get that. That has to be together. And so I'm not sure that answer would have sufficed. Nonetheless, let's look at the question about Heavenly Mother and and Joni, I don't know where you fall on it. So I want to make it clear that this is my statement and nobody else's. You want to know, you want to learn more about Heavenly Mother, go study the Adam God doctrine. I'll tell you exactly who she was or is and you're going to know a lot more now than then. Then what you do now that's that's where I'll wrap that up at.

51:54 Right. And you know, just to. Kind of segue. Into a similar topic but different is I've also heard people that are struggling say, well, there's nothing about the temple in the scriptures. And it's really hard for me because I'm like, it's all over the place. But they are these mysteries, so they are kind of hidden. So it's like it's everywhere, but it's not clear everywhere. And how do I teach this to you? So I mean, I was also a teacher at one point at a very elite private school. So we taught logic through grammar and I learned how to diagram sentences for the first time teaching 1st and 4th grade. And actually 4th grade was pretty intense with how far the kids had gotten into grammar already. And so every word really does matter. And.

52:55 Sometimes. The book is less important than the mentor, someone Wise once told me, and I've thought about that so many times. So many times we read the scriptures and we only see or hear the parts that have been pointed out in Sunday school or that were in the Living Scripture cartoons or, you know, whatever we grew up with culturally, you know, and I almost wish sometimes we could like erase all that and just read the scriptures for what they say. And you know, when summer I did and probably for five years straight, I read through the entire everything Bible, Pearl of Great Price and Book of Mormon, all of it in a year for like 5 years straight so that everything would be familiar. And I, you know, made an effort to understand Isaiah and understand Hebrew.

53:56 I studied a little bit of Hebrew, nothing like that. I would. Remember but. It changed how I thought and saw the Scriptures because I understood a little bit more of the history and the culture and actually the old CES. For the Institute. Manuals for the Old Testament or even better than studying Hebrew. Those were great, but I did not get that in the actual classes. But the actual manuals explain the history pretty clearly and give you, you know, that background. And I mean, they've changed since then. I'm sure I'm to the point where these probably are out of print, but I have them. I don't know where to get them or even which which ones they are exactly, but you know the the temple is everywhere in the scriptures and you just need the initiated to kind of point it out to you sometimes 100%. I.

54:55 Was talking with a. With a gentleman here, probably a little while back, it was a guy who'd reached out to me online and he was struggling with temple theology. Very same question. Why don't I see more about it in Scripture? And I said, well, you kind of do. And he says, what do you mean? I kind of do. I said, it's there, but you don't recognize it yet. And he's like, well, how do I recognize it? And I said, go to the temple, right? Like your temple experience, ordinances are going to require you. To step out in. Faith because of the sacred nature of things we don't divulge a ton right look, I did a series on the temple covenants just so people could begin to get comfortable with that right this is what what kind of covenant you're going to be under when you come out of there that's. A huge part of the.

55:49 Temple, but there's also, there's also an entire liturgy to the temple that will, will will give you what I believe a lot of the endowment is geared towards. Not only is it meant to put you under covenant, but it's also going to give you knowledge. That knowledge isn't always readily available or readily apparent. I should say in scripture. It's going to require you first to go and have the experience. Then as you continue your scripture study, things will pop out at you. Also the Savior Himself was didn't reveal certain things right? How often in 3rd Nephi did we hear him say, I'm constrained to speak more to you, or we hear the phrase that that ear has not heard nor you know, I seen the things in which Jesus taught and spoke those days, right?

56:45 Why aren't they illuminating that? Probably because they're temple in nature and they're they're dealing with the mysteries of godliness as they're put. So I agree with you wholeheartedly. If if people haven't been to the temple and they're worried that the temple's not in scriptures, it absolutely isn't scripture. But you're not going to understand that until you go have the experience and become initiated, in which case then it will start jumping off the page at you and the old. Testament too. Part of the problem is, is a lot of Mormons aren't reading the Old Testament. Thankfully, you know, cover to cover, especially thankfully next year is the Old Testament and I'm excited to see I'm in primary so I guess I won't see much of the Gospel doctrine discussions, but hopefully it will inspire people to be reading that more. And I know because we say, well, you know, the Book Mormon's more true because it doesn't, it didn't go through all these massive changes and interpretations. But if we have the Book of Mormon to clarify the Bible and the next part, I'm going to take you through some scriptures about publishing peace because, you know, what is the gospel of peace?

58:00 Then, you know, we kind of we kind of think, well, missionary work and maybe a little bit more, you know, but if we're out here, you know, fighting, what are we hoping for? What are we waiting for? So Isaiah prophecies of a time when we will beat our swords into plowshares and Spears into pruning hooks and nations will no longer learn war. And so the publishing peace scriptures actually show up in Isaiah 52. But then Nahem also quotes it, and then first Nephi and then Christ quotes it in 3rd Nephi when he returns, and then also the Doctrine and Covenants.

58:41 And each of these, each of these different interpretations kind of clarify possible meanings because sometimes scriptures mean multiple things and not just one thing. But this one's really interesting. So I want to take you through Abenadi Abenadi's recounting of that scripture if you. Remember. Abenadi actually goes to trial and he has the wicked king priests of Noah and it's a very different trial than what we would imagine because they're the leaders of the their nation or city state or whatever they are, but they're also spiritual leaders at the same time. There's not really a separation, and that we can not like we have today.

59:29 And so Messiah 12 the priest asked him an interesting question. So he's on trial, remember. And this is what they asked him. And it says, And it came to pass, one of them said unto him, What meaneth the words which are written, and which have been taught by our fathers, saying, How beautiful upon the mountains are the feet of him that bringeth good tidings, that publishes peace, and bringeth good tidings of good, that publisheth salvation, that saith unto Zion, Thy God raideth thy watchman shall lift up the voice with the voice. Together shall they sing, for they shall see eye to eye. When the Lord shall bring again Zion, break forth into joy, sing together you waste places of Jerusalem. For the Lord hath comforted his people, He hath hath redeemed Jerusalem, the Lord hath made bear his holy arm in the eyes of all nations, and all the ends of the earth shall see the salvation of our God.

1:00:22 So. That's. The question. They ask Abenadi on trial, So what does this, you know, how beautiful are the feet of those who publish peace scripture really mean in Isaiah? And he kind of scoffs at them. If you remember the response, he's like, you guys pretend to be priests. What the heck are you teaching people? You don't understand Isaiah. So what have you been teaching them? And they say, well, we teach the law of Moses. And then he kind of was like, well, why aren't you living it? And then he goes into this long like 2 chapter discourse on, well, the law of Moses is going to be fulfilled anyway by Christ coming. And we look forward to Christ coming.

1:01:03 And he quotes Isaiah 53. You know who hath heard our report? And he will be despised, rejected of men. You know, there is no comeliness that we should desire. And those those scriptures, he quotes that one verbatim. And then we get, you know, so all the way into chapter 15, he talks about how you know Christ is going to be despised, rejected man put on a a cross, yet he shall rise again. Then he goes back and answers that question that was asked verses ago, you know, so most people kind of already forgot about that question. And he says, Who shall declare his generation, Speaking of Isaiah? And now I say unto you, Who shall declare his generation? Behold, I say unto you, that when his soul has been made an offering for sin, he shall see his seed. And now what say you?

1:01:57 And who shall be his seed? Behold, I say unto you, that whosoever has heard the words of the prophets, yeah, all the holy prophets who have prophesied concerning the coming of the Lord, I say unto you, that all those who have hearkened under their words, and believe that the Lord would redeem his people, and have looked forward to that day for a remission of their sins, I say unto you, that these are His seed, or they are heirs of the Kingdom of God. For these are those whose sins He has borne. These are they for whom He died to redeem them from their transgressions. And now are they not His seed? Then we get to the beautiful feet. Yeah. And are not the prophets everyone that has opened his mouth to prophecy and that has not fallen into transgression?

1:02:42 I mean all the holy prophets ever since the world began, I say unto you, they are his seed. And these are they who have published peace, who have brought good tidings of good, who have published salvation, and said unto Zion, thy God Reyna. And oh, how beautiful upon the mountains were their feet, And how beautiful upon the mountains are the feet of those that are still publishing peace. And again, how beautiful upon the mountains and feet of all those who shall hereafter publish peace from this time henceforth, and forever. And so if you. Remember in the. Old Testament Jerusalem has a mountain to the east of it, and that's also called Mount Zion.

1:03:23 So it's actually creating an imagery of Zion, possibly even maybe Zion, the New Jerusalem and those on Mount Zion. That's probably the mount where the feet are that published Peace. But anyway, it's. Those who prophecy of Christ, who speak of Christ, prophets past, present and future. But also, you know, I don't think it limits just to prophets. I think it's everyone who's taken that covenant to be a savior on Mount Zion because we're on Mount Zion, absolutely.

1:04:04 Absolutely. Let me ask you this, right? We, we talked a little bit about prophets and apostles and all those, those offices there. What does it look like for an elder or just a sister in a Relief Society or women's organization? What does it mean to publish Peace? That's a great question and. That's one that I actually have been thinking about. I think it goes back to standing firm and standing up for what's right and. I think the. Other answer, which is the harder answer, is that it points to Zion and that's why I chose the scriptures specifically in the scriptures afterwards is that now we're not just talking about missionary work or temple work even.

1:04:53 We're actually talking about something else. When we start talking about Zion. What is the preparation of the gospel piece? It's something in the future, a piece that we have in the future that we don't have yet. There's also a beautiful scripture in Isaiah that says that we will wait upon the Lord. We're going to be wait, wait for him to free us from bondage type of an idea to liberate the captive. And I think that Zion is actually a real place that will be built upon the American continent to prepare the world for Christ's second coming. And so for me personally, I think it's imagining and possibly this is because I like history and politics, but imagining what would that government look like And what would our, you know, but if maybe if maybe that's too big for you, what would that look like in your home and your family?

1:05:53 And I think if we started to. Live a life. Closer to our Heavenly Father, and this is for myself as well. We'd be probably a little bit more like Corey Tenboom. If you remember, after the Nazi concentration camp, she writes a second book called Tramp for the Lord where she describes her missionary efforts. And she is literally going without purse or script and saying, I don't know where this money is going to come from, but I feel like I need to be in this country. I don't have any money for a ticket. And the money just shows up, you know, And I think often the challenge in Mormon culture is that we're told that we're supposed to do all that we can do. And we're we're trying to have neat, organized life. And sometimes that doesn't give a lot of room for miracles because miracles usually happen when you need something and it's very uncomfortable to need something, even if you need it from the Lord.

1:06:57 That's not a fun place to be, Absolutely. Absolutely. You know, it's interesting when when it starts pointing a Zion and I'm glad you took it there because I do think that that is the ultimate destination, right? I go back to one simple statistic that I find so telling. Bearing and Joseph Smith's. Entire ministry? How many chapels does he build Joni? 1. Technically the Kirtland Temple, but it was the temple, right? Zero. He builds. 0.

1:07:39 Chapels. He preaches outdoors, he preaches in people's homes. He will preach in the Kirtland Temple, but he's building 0 chapels. His vision was. Something else, his vision was about community, it was about Zion, it was about temples and communities. So everything we do in Mormonism ought to point back to at some point, the temple in Zion. That's it. That's where we're working towards. That's our goal, that's what we're doing. And when you start getting into to Zion? And what? What? Attributes Zion has.

1:08:22 It's all. About a promise of peace for the righteous right people who don't want to lift up the sword against their neighbor in the last days, they will flee to Zion. But for those who. Tried to make war with Zion. What is it? Said said. It'll be terrible. Do not do that. You know those guys, those folks in Zion, I mean, they got something going on because every time we try it. Fails and and. People our our side gets decimated. And so there again. We have that interesting dichotomy that you first illuminated at the very beginning of this where you were saying, you know, you're, you're, you're, you're prepping for war by putting on.

1:09:07 Having your feet shod. With the gospel of peace, right, They absolutely go together. Now I'm going to make a little political and somewhere somebody's going to get mad at me, and that's OK. I remember Reagan. As a small child, right? Probably 6-7, but I don't remember a. Lot of the more complex. Dealings, right, but. Reagan's Doctrine. When it came to foreign policy, was peace through strength, right? This idea that look, we don't want war. But if we have to do it. We're going to do it well and and that tended to be a pretty decent deterrent for a lot of years.

1:09:53 I don't think peace. And conflict are necessarily opposites. I know they may feel like it, but I think they're far closer than any of us really, truly want to admit. Maybe. And I want to just say something. About. Politics in general. Are the, the season that we're in? And I, I'll hint at this a little bit more, but my feeling is that there's not, I mean, I voted for Trump, right? You know, sure, I like him better than the other guy. He's done some good things. He's done some things that really frustrate me. There's no need to get into details about politics. The thing is, is that since 2020, I realized it's not about politics anymore.

1:10:48 It's not about politics anymore. And I I what I mean by that is that. And I'll get more into this. But there is a covenant on this land and the only way that we can have God on our side is through the purity, loyalty and an enduring covenant. And I'll get into more of what that means, but that's it's like, no, there is no political figure. You can't vote for the right guy anymore. It's just that time has passed. It's the wicked will punish the wicked and and some good people will do the best that they can within the system.

1:11:30 And sure, you should get involved in politics. I'm not saying you shouldn't get involved, get involved locally, you know, absolutely. But there's, there's been a shift spiritually and to me, it's gotten a little darker, but don't lose hope because there's, there's still Zion. And I want to point back to that, that idea of God returning to his people and this peaceful community of Zion and possibly what that looks like. There's a lot of scriptures saying we will sing the songs of Zion. We'll go to Zion singing songs. And there's even in DNCA specific song, it tells us that we will sing.

1:12:12 And you know, I'm like, these are scriptures that we kind of gloss over. Nobody really reads or talks about. I've been reading, as you know, you know, because we've talked about this before in other settings, Zion in the courts, and that's been a really fascinating book. And in the introduction, it's just going through a church history like Joseph Smith, Nabu period and, and the polygamy period in Utah from a law perspective, the lawyer and he makes 2 fascinating arguments. You can agree or disagree, but it's just something that's mulling around in my head and I don't, I don't know exactly where I stand on all of this, but he's the first thing he says is that it wasn't just about polygamy.

1:13:00 That's not why they you. Know that's not why they hated Mormons. They actually hated Mormons because they were trying to set up a whole nother government and they couldn't figure out how this fit into the American Constitution. And and you know, all, you know, hell kind of broke loose and they just, you know, kicked him out. And it, it goes through a lot of the different things in the Nauvoo period that Joe Smith was doing. And then you know the polygamy period of of setting up kind of a. Theo Democracy kind. Of government in Utah and how, you know, the people just were like, that's not compatible, you know, that's not what we're doing here.

1:13:42 But the other fascinating point that the introduction of that book makes is that our idea of the Millennium is completely different from other religions. And you will have prophets arise, and you had prophets of that time saying Jesus is going to return, and he's going to return this time. And then, you know, that time comes and goes and, you know, they must not really be a prophet. But what did Joseph Smith say? He didn't give a time. He gave a place. And that is really fascinating because that's a totally different paradigm than most religions, most Christian religions. It's like, no, Christ is going to return.

1:14:22 And when he returns to the earth, it's going to be this place in Missouri called Adam on Diamond. It was where Adam, the Ancient of days, you know, for was first there where the Garden of the Eden was. And that's where Christ will return. And there's going to be a new Jerusalem on the American continent. Like, wow, that's new. That's really that sets us apart from all other religions, and that's something to ponder about. 100. Percent. 100% there, you know you're. You're 100%. Correct. In the in the in your assertion that that we got to stop looking for the political savior. He does not exist. If you're looking for another George Washington, just stop.

1:15:05 He ain't coming. I've made no illusions before or. Or or I've left. Nothing to the imagination to let people know where I stand when it comes to my feelings on America, the founding documents, all sorts of things. Because I do stand by the fact. That I think that as the Law of Moses is to the higher law, so the US Constitution is to to Zion. I really believe that and that's not necessarily my words. That's that's what I think is inferred through Doctrine and Covenants where the Lord said I inspired men to write, to write the declaration and and the Constitution.

1:15:50 And so lately. I've been. I've been. A lot more. Focused on on some things, the founders have said that. I think point to. This time that we're in now where it's more about covenant and less about party, one of those is right before washing, right before they have the vote on the Constitution. It's constitutional convention and. Washington makes 1. Last speech. Before the. Before the vote and he basically this part I'll summarize or, or paraphrase, he basically says, look, we've, we've been these many months sequestered here in Philadelphia, which would have been miserable. It was one of the hottest summers on record. And if you've ever looked at their clothing, it is not breathable.

1:16:40 It's pretty it's pretty heavy, no air conditioning. And he basically says we've hammered this out. We've, we've done the best we could. And then he says this. Let us raise a standard to which the wise and noble can repair. Gentlemen, the event is in God's hands. And then. They have the vote. But it's interesting. Right. In that he's not saying the work is done. He's saying we've taken this as far as we can take it. So let us at least raise this to which a future generation who will be both wise and noble and repair to the standard that some of us were really aiming for.

1:17:30 And I think that is fascinating. And I think that's an illusion to the times we're in now, right? I think Washington at. One point Washington. Has a sweetheart deal from King George to just end the revolution. They get pretty much self government, government governance. If you look at it, it would look like America would have eventually gained its independence. Kind of like Canada did, right? But for. Washington. That was not enough. I think he has a moment where he starts to understand the destiny here and what's what's really at play. And. And he's telling everybody there's going to come this time, there's going to be people.

1:18:11 Here that are going to be both. Wise and noble and they're going to need a standard to look to to repair to that and I. Really. Do think that that what you just illuminated or or alluded to hear about, it's not political, it's not about parties, it's about covenant. I think that's exactly what Washington was on to as well. Beautifully said I. Love that quote. I actually don't remember that one. I've got a lot of scriptures. That lead that leads right into. But first I want to share one that is a little bit more just about the I'll tie it all together. You'll see so in Isaiah 4923. And king shall be their nursing fathers, and their Queens thy nursing mothers.

1:18:59 They shall bow down to thee with their face towards the earth, and lick the dust off of thy feet. And thou shalt know that I am the Lord, for they shall not be ashamed that wait for me. And so once again, this goes back to the Savior's on Mount Zion. Those who publish peace literally will be kings and Queens unto the Most High of God, and those that are brought to Zion will. You know pretty much this. Is for our culture very subservient and and we wouldn't really look at this positively and in most scenarios, but they bow down and lick off the dust off our feet, you know, so that's it's a powerful imagery though, and it was something that during those times would have been an acceptable way to show extreme gratitude for. Some.

1:19:56 Somebody doing that, but once again, there's some temple, you know, being kings and Queens and and and also in DNC one O 117. Oh no, this is in in 3rd Nephi when Jesus is talking about the beautiful feet scripture. He adds this at the end. And this is an interesting clarification too. So. Shall he? Sprinkle many nations, the king shall shut their mouths at him. For that which they had not been told them, shall they see, and that which they had not heard shall they consider. And so I'd read that before, but I'd never noticed the first part where it says he will sprinkle many nations.

1:20:42 And we were just talking about the salt that would be sprinkled, you know, over the covenant. I'm like, sprinkle has to be referring to the salt of the covenant. I don't know what else it could be referring to. You know, it's not. We don't sprinkle for baptism. So yeah, perhaps the salt of the Covenant, many nations it would have to be, right? I mean it would have to be and, and sprinkle it. What was it? Many lands shall sprinkle that is it. Is that the way that was worded? Many nations he. Shall sprinkle many nations. That is. Fascinating and that and that's what it would have to be right. Is that salt of the covenant or standing in those covenant that is fascinating.

1:21:28 That's and just sorry, just. Like you were saying previously about Moses. You know, in Deuteronomy. 30 He sets up them as a covenant people, and with that covenant comes a blessing and a curse. And this is fascinating because Second Nephi actually. Refers to this. And repeats it for America as well. So covenant people are blessed. If they obey as a nation they will prosper. And if they disobey, they don't prosper. And usually that means that times of famine and war are coming.

1:22:11 And so Lehi repeats this blessing and cursing to the American Zion. So this is second knee by chapter one, verse 7. Wherefore this land is consecrated unto him whom he shall bring. And if it so be that they shall serve him God according to the commandments which he hath given, it shall be a land of liberty unto them, wherefore they shall never be brought down into captivity. If so, it shall be because of iniquity. For if iniquity shall abound, cursed shall be the land for their sakes, but unto the righteous it shall be blessed forever. So once again, we have this dichotomy of of the Book Mormon clarifying the Bible for them working hand in hand, where Nephi gathers or Lehi gathers his people together right before he's going to die and explains that nations that follow the Lord and covenant nations, they have blessings and curses for not living up to that that covenant.

1:23:14 Just kind of like you were saying. 100. Percent. There. There's definitely within. The Book of Mormon, kind of. Two sets of. Covenants that go on, right? There are the personal covenants, right? Those are covenants that that Dave and Joni are going to end to individually. And then there seems to be kind of a, a national covenant, right? Not in the way that traditional Christian nationalists are going to interpret it. But there there is. A covenant here, right? And it seems to be that way all throughout the history of this land, right?

1:23:58 Whether you're you're a God person or not, if you're a God person, well, we definitely know, you know, Adam, Adam made covenants, right? Then we go forwards, right? We have, we have the the Nephites who are coming out and that's all about that covenant. There's whole chapters devoted in 1st and 2nd Nephites illuminating what that covenant is. Then we go forwards to, to, to the discovery of the new world. And if we look at those Puritans and those, those pilgrims, right, all of it centered around covenant. And so you, you are 100% correct again on that, that, that this sprinkling of the covenant, it's serious business. It's not something that should be taken lightly and quite. Frankly, it's one of the things I. Love about the restored gospel, right? We can absolutely have salvation on our own. But exaltation in.

1:24:57 Zion that takes. Other people. Right exaltation on on the family level. That's me and my wife being sealed eternally together. We can only enjoy those blessings if we're together. Zion, you can have a Zion type family, no doubt about that. I won't debate that one bit. But you can't have Zion without working with other people. And so there is a sense of both individual covenants and national covenants at work here. And I love how you're picking up on this idea that it's it's not about politics, It's about it's about covenant.

1:25:37 You're right. And I think I've heard you say. It before, too, is that, you know, nations, they don't get their punishments in the hereafter. They get it now. Jefferson. Yeah. Jefferson OK, that's. Where I've heard it before and the scriptures say the just, the rain falls on the just and the unjust. So even if you're righteous, it's kind of like there's this world interconnected, not in a weird socialist, communist way, but you know, we're all interconnected. We can't really separate it. I know we love individualism for individual rights and we have individual covenants and individual responsibility, but it all adds up into a cohesive unit. And there are some things that you cannot do alone. Most things have a family, build Zion. And I think that's what's so fascinating about. The Gospel and what?

1:26:34 Joseph Smith was striving for like in the Nauvoo period. Is is this idea of Zion is not something like, oh, well, if I'm good, I just get to heaven and I don't have to care what other people do. And I'm pretty libertarian. So that's kind of my default mode. It's like, I'll just take care of myself. I'm super independent and you guys do whatever you're doing over there. I don't want to worry about you. But in reality, when the gospel has changed us, kind of like Corey was saying on his part of the podcast, is has a change of your your heart and you want to share that with other people. When you're excited about something, the first thing you want to do is call somebody as somebody that you care about and share it with them. You know, it's gets pretty boring if you we had exciting news to, you know, sit at home and look in the mirror and go, yes, yes, yes.

1:27:26 You know, you can only do that for so long before it's like, OK, that was fun. Now, now what? You know, it's like excitement is meant to be shared. We don't live in a bubble. No man is an island. Every man's part of the the main, you know, So don't ask for whom the bell tolls. It tolls for thee. You know, John Donne, Speaking of the the pulling of church bells when somebody dies, that, you know, every man's death diminishes me. That kind of an idea. We're all, we're all in it together. Yeah, I would. Really encourage people and we don't have to go through these scriptures because they're kind of long, but to read the second chapter of Joel along with where is it in Helaman? Oh, it's in Helaman chapter 10.

1:28:34 Those are really interesting scriptures to read together. Talking about Last days and Zion in general. What's happening is in Joel chapter 2, there's a trumpet in Zion calling the people to gather to a holy assembly, but in between those that there's allusions to, and it's very poetic. So it's hard for people to understand, but when you do, it's actually really beautiful. Few years back I started to get. The feeling that we, as fundamentalists and orthodox Mormons, we need our own stuff. Up to now, we've been able to buy and purchase all of our scriptures, books, art, and music from other restoration organizations, and that's been good.

1:29:17 But there's no guarantee it's going to remain that way. Also, it can be a bit tricky as you scour the Internet trying to find all the books from your favorite fundamentalist or orthodox Mormon authors. As I thought about this, I feel like I was really given a solution now through the hard work of others, because let's face it, I'm the guy least qualified in all the world to build a website. I'm happy to present to you 1830 mercantile.org. Right now on the website you can see that we have all the books that have ever been written by 4 authors, including names like Drew, Briny and Ogdenkraut. Also very soon there will be a link to buy art and music all produced by Mormons with a deep love for the restored gospel. There's also places for you to get free resources where you can find podcasts, videos, classes, and other presentations. Also coming very soon there will be a place for events where you can list the events from your organization so that you can get the most out of that attendance.

1:30:15 Now this can be as big as you want it to be. It's all up to you guys out there if you want to buy and post things on here. Now, if you're someone who produces something that you feel like others can benefit from, 1830 Mercantile is a place where you can make all of those products available for purchase. All you need to do is drop me an e-mail at mormonrenegade@gmail.com and put 1830 in in the title of that e-mail with a short message and either myself or someone else from the 1830 Mercantile team will reach out to you so we can get your product up there on the site now. To make sure. That all the products that we offer are affordable and to ensure that the vast majority of the profits go to the producer.

1:30:59 The website percentage is only three to 4% of the total cost. And that's just so I can pay the pros that have created this website and keep the lights on the website itself. Finally, by making some of your purchases at 1830 mercantile.org, you'll be supporting folks whose principles and morals are close, if not the same as yours. At the same time not giving your money away to people who stand against everything you stand for. So no matter if you're looking to make a purchase or you're a seller that wants to get your products listed, head on over to 1830 mercantile.org today. Drop me an e-mail and we'll make sure that we get back out to you. Now back to the show. Noise of Chariots.

1:31:44 War, times of war. And then before they're faced, the people shall be much pained. All faces shall gather blackness. And poetically this probably could mean fear or horror or sadness or despair. And then there's a mighty army in Jewel that comes and saves them basically, and those who repent are gathered to Zion. Yes, and he says, I'll restore to you the years that the locust has Hathy in the cankerworm of the Caterpillar, the Palmer worm, my great army, which I said among you. And he talks about the rain returning.

1:32:26 So we know he that he is talking about famine at some point. And ye shall eat in plenty, and be satisfied, and praise the name of your Lord God that hath dealt wondrously with you, and my people shall never be ashamed. And ye shall know that I am in the midst of Israel, and that I am the Lord your God, and none else, and my people shall never be ashamed. And then actually we should read these next scriptures, because these are quoted by Peter at the day of Pentecost. And the Angel Moroni quotes Joel chapter 2 to Joseph Smith. And these are the verses which Joseph Smith said he quoted to us. Oh, let's, let's dig into it. Yeah, I this is. Really fun, you know, and most people kind of gloss over, gloss over these scriptures. And it shall come to pass after that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh.

1:33:15 And your sons and your daughters shall prophecy. Your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions, and also upon the servants and upon the handmaids. In those days will I pour out my spirit, and I will shew wonders in heavens and in the earth, blood and fire and pillars of smoke. The sun shall be turned Into Darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and terrible day of the Lord come. And it shall come to pass that whosoever shall call in the name of the Lord shall be delivered. For in Mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the Lord has said, and in the remnant whom the Lord shall call. So I don't claim to know half of what those scriptures mean, but it's a interesting image of a post apocalyptic time of gathering and especially the first part where we'll have the Lord's spirit and dream dreams and see visions. But the Book of Mormon.

1:34:09 Echoes a lot of this, but it's, it's slightly different and it's more clear, it's less poetic. And that's why I, I say, go back and read the Bible and use the Book of Mormon to clarify the Bible. And here's a funny story. I'll interrupt and share a funny story. So, you know, I, I was kind of a little nerdy and thought I was smart those years. I was in College in my early 20s and I was putting in the work, you know, to study the scriptures a little bit more, really focusing. I took some biblical Hebrew courses and I took some and I. Took a summer. And studied Isaiah, you know, trying to figure out what it meant.

1:34:52 And, and not just like a John, by the way, type study, but more of like Abraham Gileadi type study, you know, like, let's see what different translations say and compare and let's read. You know, like I said, the CES manual back then actually was really helpful in understanding Isaiah and, and saying, well, this is just like referring to, you know, a time in the history of the Israelites and it's just referencing their history. Just like if I said, you know, Paul Revere's right and or the Old N Chapel, you would know what I'm referring to If I said the Old N Chapel, you know, that's where, you know, the story happens. And so a lot of Isaiah actually has to be understood by knowing the history.

1:35:39 But anyway, So what? I was kind of frustrated. Because I was, I was at home 1 semester. I was going to College in Cedar City, but I didn't have enough money. So I was back home working. And there's a little Community College here. So there's an institute and all of that. And so I had this guy that was a friend of my cousin that became kind of someone we hung out with. His name was Sam. Sam was a very good guy and delightful as can be. And one day I decided I would complain to Sam that Mormons never read the Bible. And Sam said to me, he said, yeah, the Bible's kind of hard.

1:36:21 I try to read the Bible, you know, but I try and read it once a month or so, you know, But, you know, that's it, because I really love the Book of Mormon. I was like, Sam, how fast do you read? And you know, 'cause I'm like. You read it what, once a month? What are you talking about? And he's like, well, you know, if I sat down and read straight, you know, he says, but I don't do this. You know, he was still like post mission reading for two hours, scripture study in the morning. And he said I could I, I can get through the Book of Mormon halfway through the Book of Mormon in two hours. So I was like, OK, so he reads, he's reads really fast speed read the Book of Mormon in two.

1:37:08 Hours. Yep. Yep, he happens. Around, Yep. Yep. Super smart guy. And so I just kind of like jaw dropped. It was kind of like the slap in my face, like stop complaining, you know, like if you complain to the wrong guy and but that you know. And so from that though, if anyone wants to know, it really isn't that hard to read all the triple combination in one year. You're not going to be able to do it in every phase of your life, not when you just had a baby and are getting less sleep. But if you read the average 250 words per minute that the average reader reads, then it's 4.35. So you have to read 5 chapters a day. So some days will be a little bit longer, but most people can do that if you read 250 words per minute in 30 minutes of scripture study a day.

1:37:58 So if you were just trying to get through the the entire thing in a year, it actually isn't as hard unless, unless you struggle with reading and that's a whole nother conversation, but you can listen. There's all sorts of tools for that, you know, But that's anyway the teacher and me. So anyway. Read the Book of Mormon. To clarify the Bible, so Joel's talking about all of that and the prophet Nephi in Helaman chapter 10, if you remember, he gets the sealing power and that's really beautiful says and this is Nephi the third like in Helaman Nephi.

1:38:39 So this isn't. Nephi. In the beginning, this is Nephi, named after Nephi, back when, you know, they're all a little bit more wicked and he's on his tower and just like, wailing because of the wickedness of the people. And they're all like the government's falling apart. There's intrigue, there's judges being assassinated. It's rough. Yeah. Yeah. So. It's that time period that Nephi, and so he gets the sealing power. In chapter 10 and verse 4 it says, Blessed art thou, Nephi, for those things which thou hast done. For I beheld how thou hast with unwearingness declared the word which I have given unto thee, unto this people.

1:39:20 And thou hast not feared them, and hast not sought thine own life, but have sought my will and to keep my commandments. And now because thou hast done this with such unwearingness, behold, I will bless thee forever, and I will make thee mighty in Word and in deed and in faith and in works. Yeah, even that all things shall be done unto thee according to thy word, for thou shalt not ask that which is contrary to my will. And what does he tell them that he should ask for next? A famine? Drought. Right. Yeah, A. Famine. Excuse me, I said. Drought. Famine going back? To that covenant. People, the covenant and the curse. Yeah, but then the people do repent and the famines ended, and so Nephi cries for the people.

1:40:03 And pleads for them before the Lord, and asks the Lord to turn his heart to them again. And the Lord willingly turns once the people repent. And so back when I was studying some biblical Hebrew stuff, I ran across the book called the Zohar, I believe it was. And this is like very creative, just forgot the word about cabal called cabalism. Yeah. So it's really a fun to read though. So I mean, I wouldn't take it literally, but the the Jews have a hierarchy of prophets, you know, like they they have favorites, but it's, but it's it's like national favorites. Like Abraham's like the prophet of all prophets. And he's the greatest prophet that ever there was. And so he's like very high on the totem pole. Well, Noah's lesser on the totem pole of these hierarchy of prophets.

1:41:08 And the Zohar has a really fascinating retelling of the story. Of the flood. And it has a very powerful moral. So don't take this literally. I don't think this is really how it went down with Noah. I think Noah's a great guy, but it think about yourself, put yourself in Noah's shoes and being a savior on Mount Zion. So in this retelling of the story, Noah is pained to see all the wickedness around and he asked the Lord to send a flood and.

1:41:53 The Lord sends a flood. And then later he's praying and he's like, well, Lord, why didn't you save those people? You know, if there's a lot of lot of people nowadays that read the Bible, he's not saying this, but just interjecting here. There's a lot of people nowadays that read the Bible and like, yeah, that God in the Old Testament, he's kind of harsh. He just wipes out people like, oh, that was a bad experiment. Those people were naughty. Let's just try again. But the the, you know, Noah's kind of having a hard time with that too. Like, you know, well, that was kind of harsh God and and the Lord puts it right back on him and says, you know what my my servant Abraham did is Abraham.

1:42:37 He prayed If there was even just 10 people, you know if. There was 50. People, will you save this wicked city if you could just find, if I find just 20 people, will you save this? And, and the Lord reprimands them and says it was your duty to pray for those people so that they would, they would repent, but you didn't. Instead, you know, they got wiped out. And that's, it's a really fascinating retelling. Like I said, I I doubt that's really how it went down, but it's really points an interesting image about our duty to our fellow human beings. 100%. 100% There's two ways I think that we can view our discipleship right.

1:43:24 One of them is a. Very passive, quiet, subdued kind of discipleship. Spoiler alert, I don't think that that's how the Lord wants it. Then there's another view of discipleship which tends to focus on some things the Savior had said. And I want to say this, the more I look at scripture, the more of these I find right where. It's. You're the light on the hill. You're the salt. You are. Essentially a. Change agent within society, right where you you are.

1:44:09 And part of that would be praying. For people right a praying for a repentance a a I'm going to use a very. Sectarian word now a. Revival of sorts to happen amongst the the inhabitants of the nation a returning to God. I like that model better. And the more I read with with that in mind, the more I see that pop out. One of my favorite examples of this Joanie R is found when when Christ and his apostles are down in in Caesarea Philippi and the Savior is, is there. And, and he asked them, who do people say that I am?

1:44:50 And you know, somebody says, well, some say you're John, you know, you're, you're, you're Isaiah, you know, or Elijah on somebody else's. Some say you're John the Baptist comeback, right? And then Christ says, but who do you say that I am? And, and Peter answers him. He says you're you're the Christ, you're the Son of God. And he says something interesting. He said, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to thee, but your father, which is in heaven and. Upon this rock. Shall I build my church? And the gates of hell shall not prevail against it, OK? The first thing I take away is the. Need for revelation right when he says I'll build upon this rock while it.

1:45:36 Can be a play. On words for Peter, whose name is Rock. I think what he's really saying is it's going to be built on revelation. But the part that really. Caught my mind in terms of the different types of discipleship is where he sets the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. What do gates do? Well, they either keep people in or they keep people out. Well, if, if. You're an apostle of Jesus Christ. I'm guessing you're already outside the gate. So what's Jesus, really? Saying I think what he's saying is this is a rescue mission. We're going to get our people and hell itself cannot shut us out.

1:46:21 Those gates will not hold us. And we? Look at the restored gospel. It is absolutely. A mission of rescue. We're going to go, we're going to find people who are alive now and we're going to preach to him the gospel and those who accept it will have their lives changed for the better. And the people who are on the other side of the veil that her that died without ever hearing about this. Yeah. We're going to go get them. Too, And and this ties back into with what you're saying here about about. About being the light, the. Being being that salt, praying for people, right? Discipleship.

1:47:04 Should be something where where you buckle up for right and I think what we're talking about in this series about that armor of God is dealing with just that This is this. This is not weak kneed discipleship. This is a rescue mission. This is SEAL Team 6, spiritually speaking. Going in to get our boys is what this is and we are now living in times where we better get real comfortable with that because it's not getting easier from this point forward. 100%. Absolutely. And the other thing, you know, going back to purity. Loyalty. And the enduring covenant and even the breastplate of righteousness and, and the heart, you know, having your heart changed, like Corey was talking about, is when we're touched by the spirit, our heart has changed and we want to share that with others.

1:48:02 When we have a, a change in our heart or we feel love or peace or hope or excitement, you know, those aren't things that we no one wants to experience that on their own If they want to share that with people that are close to them and. Well, too often I think we're going. Through the motions and expecting. Expecting to earn. Heaven or to you know, to just go through the motions instead of actually having that change of heart. But the the Lord is has said that our hearts will change if we give if we give him our heart and if our feet are shod and we're standing firm, then you know those changes will happen and if the the listeners who are waiting for that change of heart, it will it will happen.

1:48:55 You know hang in there. It's really is a gift when something changes and I I feel like I've been kind of the. I grew up in the church. Everything for me has just been. I've always believed it, probably always will believe it. Joseph Smith, You know, it's been little by little slow, no big angelic visitation as of yet. So, you know, it's it's been that way for me. But when it comes to charity and a change of heart, I had a really profound experience one time I was.

1:49:40 Probably still in. College, but probably in Utah and came home and my grandma was teaching at a private school. So she was, she was retired, but still working. And so she was teaching and she had an art class and I was an art major for two years and have some artistic skill. And so she's, she asked me to come do an art demonstration for her class. And they're probably about fourth, fifth grade ish. And so I like to draw people. So I was like, well, I'm going to do 215 minute portraits and kind of talk about a little bit of art history and, you know, pass pass some things around to the kids.

1:50:25 And I drew my grandma and then had her pick somebody in the class for me to draw. And, you know, then they got to take the picture home. And the girl that she picked was really interesting. She was the epitome of what by worldly standards, she was not a cute girl. She was overweight. She had scraggly hair. She was wearing AT shirt, you know, a little, a little frumpy, not not well kept, you know, so. Initial impression. Was like, oh, you know this will be interesting.

1:51:07 You know, arts usually about beauty and I. Pick up that pencil. And when you're drawing, just for those who aren't artistic, it's about what you see, not what your hand is doing. And about halfway through, tears came to my eyes because suddenly this little girl became so. Beautiful to me and it was just such a. Fascinating experience to go from the. Initial impression. Of what, you know, my natural response was maybe a little bit of repulsion is too harsh of a word, but you know, like, oh, you know, this human being isn't attractive to me, you know, despised.

1:51:58 Rejected. Of man, Man of Sorrows, acquainted with grief and to suddenly seeing her with completely different eyes like this little girl became beautiful. And I don't know if my drawing a 15 minute portrait of, of her face had any impact on her, but it sure did on me. You know, I, I went home and I will always remember that experience and how that changed me to see her differently because I had that change of heart. It was my eyes that changed. It was my perceptions. And I think that's, you know, if if anything else comes from from these topics, you know, when you first gave it to me, I was like, what am I going to find on feet shod for the preparation of gospel of peace?

1:52:50 Like that's a mouthful in and of itself. What could be in there? And then the more I looked into the scriptures, I was like, there's actually a lot here and. You know all of. Those publishing feast scriptures, actually, there is a lot to them. And the last scripture I'll read tonight and then I'll let you have some closing words is when Joseph Smith and this is an interesting. Oh, I did not put which D&C this is, but I think it's like 133. It's it's the one where he signs his name. Your your friend Joseph Smith. So this is. The most this. Is Joseph Smith's words more so than the rest of DNC being more revelation? And he quotes the publishing piece Scripture from Isaiah as well.

1:53:37 And he says, after following that, he says, Brethren, shall we not go on? And so great A cause go forward, not backward. Courage, brethren, and on on to the victory. Let your hearts rejoice and be exceedingly glad. Let the earth break forth into singing. Let the dead speak forth. Anthems of eternal praise to the King Emmanuel, who hath ordained before the world was that which would enable us to redeem them out of their prison. For the prisoners shall go free. Let the mountain shout for joy, and all ye valleys cry aloud, and all ye seas and dry lands tell the wonders of your eternal King, and ye rivers and brooks and reels flow down with gladness. Let the woods and the trees of the field praise the Lord, and ye solid rocks weep for joy, and let the sun, moon, and the morning stars sing together.

1:54:28 And let the sons of God shout for joy, and let the eternal creations declare his name forever. And again I say, How glorious is the voice we hear from heaven, proclaiming in our ears glory and salvation, and honor, and immortality, and eternal life, kingdoms, principalities and powers. Behold, the great day of the Lord is at hand, and who can abide the day of His coming, And who can stand when he appeareth? For he is like a refiner's fire, and like a fool or soap. And he shall sit as a refiner and purifier of silver, and he shall purify the sons of Levi, and perch them as gold and silver, that they may offer unto the Lord an offering in righteousness. Let us, therefore, as the Church and as a people, and as Latter Day Saints, offer unto the Lord an offering in righteousness, and let us present in His holy temple, when it is finished, a book containing the record of our records of our dead, which shall be worthy of all acceptation.

1:55:25 And. You. Know, I think he. Felt. I think his feet were shot with the. Gospel of the preparation of peace. I think he felt felt joy and hope for Zion in those words. And it's just beautiful the way he says that, you know, courage go on to victory. We have much to be grateful for because of Joseph Smith and what he restored. And we have much to live up to because of what he restored. And we're not there. We're not there as a church. And I think that even if it starts in our hearts and in our homes, that Zion is the goal that we're going to be singing the songs of Zion and, and preparing for the return of our Savior. And, you know, for whatever that means to each of the listeners, it's, you know, up to them to follow the Spirit and to pray about it and get that revelation. Absolutely.

1:56:22 Good stuff. So I got I got a couple follow up questions here I want to I want to dive into. And first one is this, I want to kind of put a bow on this a little bit so. Explain to me. Exactly, if if someone was to come to you and say give me the give me the 5 or 10 minute answer, what does it mean to have your feet shod with the, the, the, the gospel of peace? I would say. It means that you were prepared to fight, but you know when to put away your sword and that you have the salt of the covenant. You are striving for purity, loyalty to your Lord and Savior who is the leader of your army, and you're bound to Him with an enduring covenant.

1:57:11 And that you're bringing others along with you. Absolutely good. Stuff. Now let me ask this question. How do we put them on? Oh. Great question. I. Think it's going to look a little different for everybody. Like I said, I really. Feel like, and maybe I'm getting a little too preachy for this, but I really feel like we've lost the focus of Zion. And you know, we've got, to me, that's twofold. That's our individual purity and loyalty to our Savior. You know, where are our hearts? Where are our lives? Are we having daily miracles? Are we getting answers to our prayers? Do we?

1:57:58 Get promptings and. Follow them, you know, and just sidetrack into that a little bit. Corey's been sick. And so we were watching the latest Harriet Tubman movie that came out a few years ago the other night. You know, he's watching a few movies, being sick and and that one really beautiful retelling of her story and probably decently accurate as far as history goes, as far as I remember at least, she was very spiritual and she had a brain injury that.

1:58:40 She would pass. Out sometimes and sometimes when praying she would pass out and she would see things. And the movie was really powerful because, you know, in cinematography, it could show glimpses of what was going to come, what she was seeing that she was literally seeing into the future. And because it's cinematography, you could experience that with her. She was seeing what was going to happen. And no, don't go that way there, you know. There's bad people. That way. But somebody in the movie 1 of the characters stops and asks her what's it like for you, you know, having this communication to God. And she said it's beautiful and sometimes it's hard. She said.

1:59:27 And they and you know, they asked a follow up question, well, how do you do it? And she said, well, I. Don't stop and. Think about it and I just do it. And you know that. I'm a thinker more than a doer, unfortunately, because I like to think. I like to analyze things and that comes with, you know, some, some weaknesses and some strengths. But the weaknesses is that sometimes I have a hard time following that spirit because I might overthink it too much. And it's just like, that's what. Simple faith is like a. Child is, you know, if you get that prompting you just, you just go and do it. And I was going to segue into the nation at the national level.

2:00:12 You know, the the gut instinct and the feeling for me is that there's a promise on this land. And as a nation we are promised that we'll be a land of liberty if we keep the commandments. But if we don't, that promise is null and void. If we're not keeping our end of the bargain, there's no reason for him to keep his end of the bargain. So we can't look to any political leader at this point unless our hands are clean. And so, you know, the the purity, loyalty and an enduring covenant, you know, are our hands pure as a nation for us to be able to ask God to intervene on our behalf? We're not prospering, Dave, and prosperity is not an individual promise.

2:01:01 Sometimes we think of that as an individual promise. So if I'm righteous, I'm everything's going to go great. I'm going to be wealthy and I'll prosper. I'll become a mission president and then, you know, climb the church ladder as well. It's like, no, that was a that was a group promise, not you individually. You might have challenges. You know, if it were that easy, we all would follow the Lord because hey blessings, I get what I want. Yeah, no, the rain. Falls on the just and the unjust. So but nations are different. There's a group promise and the outcome for the group is that if we don't obey, then there's possibly captivity in the future of some sort or famine.

2:01:45 And I work with bankruptcy attorneys. So I see all the people struggling. There's, I know there's a lot of prosperity for some people, but the, the gap between the, the top and the bottom has widened and we won't dive into all the reasons for that. I, I have some theories on that. But then it is it's really rough out there financially for a lot of folks prospering, probably not so much as a nation, not with how much debt, right? Right, you know, I I thought about. This long and hard and and I made. I made a short little. Video When I was on vacation back east for my anniversary with Amber, I had an episode cocked and ready to go, but. After I'd been.

2:02:36 Through it. And I the closer I got to Saturday, the more I felt the Lord's say don't. Don't release that yet. Instead, tell them how you're feeling. And this was only two weeks removed from the Charlie Kirk incident. I had a baby on the way. I had not necessarily gotten tired, but was maybe going through the motions a little bit and those. Two things I. Think really have shaken me from that and lit a fire again that.

2:03:17 I'm not sure will. Subside subside this time. I think I think the. Seasons have changed which? Is probably part of the. Reason for this, this series as well. We're going to have to stand. We're going to have to very peacefully. I don't want anyone getting any any cross ideas here that I'm calling for violence because that's not what I'm doing. What I am doing is saying standing. Resistance. Nonviolent resistance is the path. Forward.

2:03:59 But that's not weakness, right? So often it's interesting. I remember reading some stuff that was assigned to me to read the first time I went to college, and it was on some of the Viking sagas and that sort of thing. And it was about the time that Christianity was starting to make inroads into Europe. And one of the things that maybe some of the older guard from those Viking nations said was why would I follow a God who was defeated and is weak? Well, that was their own misconception, right?

2:04:39 Because he stood and then he was crucified, now resurrected, but none the less. The Savior. Absolutely performed A revolutionary act. Simply by standing. Right being nonviolent, but to. Stand in the face of. That kind of opposition that takes a level of intestinal fortitude that quite frankly, I'm not sure I've mastered as of yet and find myself wanting in, in terms of not having those things. But I think we have to. Get to a point where we take those temple covenants so seriously.

2:05:24 That we can say. Like The Pioneers did, right? Why the pioneer? Why were they able to to leave Nauvoo and dive headlong into a wilderness that had barely been explored? Go to the Great Basin where nothing grows right, they were warned. You'll break a plow before you get one year of corn out of that ground and then get it done. It's because they. Had faith in their. Covenants. They had just went through the. Temple. So in order to put on. You know the. Having your feet prepared with the gospel of preparation and peace. Take those covenants and then take them seriously first and foremost.

2:06:16 The next thing is to recognize that discipleship is not. Simply a state. Of being on the down low. It is an active process to stand in discipleship. To be unmoved, right? What's that? Scripture? Be steadfast and immovable, right? That to me, I don't know how it says I'm just, that's badass, right? I mean, like, you're just going to plant yourself and tell everybody else. You move around me. I, I will not go that way. You mentioned Corey Tenboom earlier. I'm a huge fan of that woman.

2:06:59 You know what the Righteous of the Nations is in in Israel. No, I don't think I'm familiar with. That, excuse me, there's a whole Rd. That's dedicated to the Righteous Among the Nations and guys like Oscar Schindler have a tree on that Blvd. planted in his name. So does Corey Kenbu and when her tree was being planted. And I got you can still. Find the the. The video on YouTube, but this this interviewer. Asks her. What? What allowed you to?

2:07:40 Stand in this time to take the risk that you took in. Housing people that. That the Nazis were looking for. And she said something that both thrilled me and at the same time I think was a little bit of a warning as well. And she? Said. The righteous didn't suddenly become more righteous. We. Just refused to go. Over the Cliff with the rest of humanity. So you talk about having. Your feet having no standing in that place, having it shod with the gospel of peace.

2:08:23 You've got to make the decision now. Right. I don't think we're seeing full fruition of things yet, but the time is quickly approaching and so you don't have time to screw around with this, right? We are there. We can see the event in the distance. It's time to get serious about our discipleship and also understand that the Scripture is tipping its hand to us. These are the things you are going to need to make it through in these days. Peace does not mean the absence of struggle. I think what what they're. Talking about here with having your feet shod with the gospel of peace, it's that you will feel peace even in the midst of the uncertainty, in the midst of the trial, in the midst of of the rest of humanity going off the Cliff. And I don't think.

2:09:22 And here's the crazy part. There's the covenants and then I think it's the little things. My grandmother used to say something great. I used to watch my grandmother and she would always sweep the corners of the floor first. Always. Even if it. Looked like the. Rest of the floor was clean. And I asked her one day. Right. I just remember looking and of course you know, again I. Was lazy from the. Beginning as I was probably eating a bag of Doritos looking, you know, at at whatever football game was on. So like, why you do that? And she's like, if you keep the corners clean, the center takes care of itself now. As I grew and. I got it, became a man and I became a Mormon and I started, you know, this, this, this walk and discipleship to to Jesus Christ. That became.

2:10:13 A lot more applicable, right? I think his people were really good at keeping the center of the floor clean, right? Because that's where everybody's looking, right? Well, no, I, I haven't cheated on my spouse. I haven't, I haven't committed murder. I, I, I don't do anything that looks bad on me. What's your corners look like? Where do your corners look like? Right. And the corners are, are you saying your prayers both by yourself and with your family? Are you reading your scriptures? Are you paying your tithes? Are you, are you doing all those things that we would quote being the little things? But I think it's in doing the little things that those covenants that we need to take to prepare ourselves to, to have our feet prepared to stand.

2:10:57 I think that's where it comes from. So Cory, this excuse me, Joni, this was great stuff. I appreciate it. I'm going to leave it to you now to to to wrap this all up with anything else you want to say. The one word I didn't. Focus on was preparation and I've been thinking about that a lot this week. I like what you just said about the the corners. Focusing on the corners and the scripture comes to mind by small and simple things. Great things shall come to pass, and. You know what small things? Should we be doing to become more pure, loyal, and to have an everlasting and enduring covenant with the Lord?

2:11:44 I think that's kind of the question that I've been asking myself. But as I think about the word preparation for the gospel piece, there's a lot of things that I do in the kitchen that don't take as much time as you think. Like I've started learning sourdough bread and really, it's not hard. It's not hard, It's not a hard thing. It's a simple thing to make your own start. It's just. You have to plan. Ahead and Corey and I have a health food company that we're starting and everything healthy, you know, everything on the shelf that's like convenient and ready to go.

2:12:33 A lot of the nutrient value has just gone down, down, down to maintain shelf life and keep it stable. And so half the stuff that most people are eating just doesn't have any nutritional value. And as we've been, you know, we've both grown up being pretty health nutty, but even we learn more and more as we go along. And sourdough bread, for example. It's. So simple to make, but most people won't make it because it requires a couple of weeks in advance preparation. And the more I think about preparation, a lot of things are like that in your life. There are little things that you need to do, but you need to be doing them.

2:13:22 They're not hard to do, but you have to plan ahead otherwise it doesn't work out. Baking the actual bread and then you knead it and it sits for a few hours and rises and then you need it again and put it in the pan and bake it, you know. So once again, there's like this waiting period of, well, I did my part, I did the the first step and then I did the second step and then I wait and then I do the last step. It's not something that you suddenly wake up and say, you know, you're sitting on the couch or after work and you're like, I'm hungry. Sourdough bread sounds really good right now. You can't open up the microwave and throw something in. It's not that way.

2:14:06 And when you actually grind the flour and bake the bread the same day, freshly ground flour actually has 90% more nutrients than if you wait even 24 hours. You know, it's like, wow, that's really fascinating. So there's another extra step that might take a little bit more preparation, but time wise it doesn't take that much more time. So that might. That cooking. Analogy might be a bad one for some people, but think about the things in your life where it's probably something small, but you need to plan it in and just put it in.

2:14:50 And it actually isn't hard. It's very simple, but you have to think ahead. And a lot of life's like that, you know, having children, raising children, it's really bad to start. Discipline means to teach. You know, if you want your kids to behave at the grocery store, you don't want to wait till they misbehave to teach them how to behave. It starts way long before you get to the grocery store. You could maybe role play and say, hey, you know what? We're going to the grocery store. What do we do at the grocery store? What do we say when we see this bright shiny object that we want to put in the cart? What do we say when mom says no? You know what happens when mom says no? Maybe even let them be the parent for you, the whiny kid. You know, it's like these things take preparation, you know? Are we preparing?

2:15:43 Who are we preparing our kids to be? You know they're not going to be that overnight. And the worst time to to parent is when you're in panic mode or when something goes wrong. The best time to beach is before you know, best time to plant tree is 20 years ago. Is that how the saying goes? That's I guess. That's the only thing I didn't add into my talk. But other than that, you know, purity, loyalty, the enduring covenant, what are those small things that you can add into your life to add more salt to your covenant and be more pure and loyal? Or maybe it's taking something out. Perfect.

2:16:24 Joni I. Really. Appreciate it. This has been awesome. I know I got a lot to think about, as I'm sure everyone else does, and let's do it again. Let's do it. Well, thanks so much Dave. I really had a lot of fun because it forced me to focus on being better at scripture study than I have been this whole last year. So now moving forward, I'm going to be much better prepared because it lit the fire underneath me and held me accountable. So I appreciate it well. If nobody. Else got anything? I did well, no. We look. I've always said I get way more out of of doing the podcast and probably anyone else does listening.

2:17:09 And that's I think just a function of of how the gospel plan works. But awesome. Yeah, let's do it again. You have something else you want to talk to? Don't hesitate and give me a call. All right, All right. Have a wonderful night and give your family hugs for me will do hang out for. Just 5 minutes. Bye everybody.