Episode #212: Christian Nationalism-Ancient & Modern Origins

1
00:00:38,880 --> 00:00:41,440
Hey everybody.
So Justin Franklin's going to be

2
00:00:41,440 --> 00:00:43,120
joining me here in just a few
minutes.

3
00:00:43,120 --> 00:00:46,400
But before he does, I wanted to
lay some groundwork on what

4
00:00:46,400 --> 00:00:49,280
Christian nationalism is and
then just go over a few quick

5
00:00:49,400 --> 00:00:53,040
other quick things with you.
So to start, I want to say I did

6
00:00:53,040 --> 00:00:56,360
not want to do this episode.
I in fact, tried reaching out to

7
00:00:56,360 --> 00:01:01,720
other people to see if they
would do it, but it I just feel

8
00:01:01,720 --> 00:01:03,480
like I still have to talk about
it here.

9
00:01:03,480 --> 00:01:05,560
And fortunately, Justin's going
to come on and help me.

10
00:01:06,000 --> 00:01:08,840
So know that I didn't want to do
this episode from from the

11
00:01:08,840 --> 00:01:11,320
beginning, but I feel like it's
super important.

12
00:01:11,840 --> 00:01:15,760
Next, this episode is riddled
with information.

13
00:01:15,960 --> 00:01:19,680
OK, a lot of information.
So throughout this first part,

14
00:01:19,680 --> 00:01:21,920
at least I'm going to be
checking my notes quite a bit.

15
00:01:21,920 --> 00:01:24,760
So as I look away from the
camera, just understand that's

16
00:01:24,760 --> 00:01:28,080
what I'm doing.
I'm just checking my notes. 3rd

17
00:01:28,080 --> 00:01:33,320
and final, this episode is going
to have a lot of terms in it

18
00:01:33,480 --> 00:01:37,600
that are used not just by
Mormons but also by Christian

19
00:01:37,600 --> 00:01:41,280
nationalists.
And the same term that you use

20
00:01:41,480 --> 00:01:45,600
may not mean the same thing when
a Christian nationalist uses it.

21
00:01:45,880 --> 00:01:47,360
So those terms are going to be
important.

22
00:01:47,520 --> 00:01:49,920
And to help you decipher and see
how this works, we got a little

23
00:01:49,920 --> 00:01:52,080
bit of a thought exercise I'm
going to do with you now.

24
00:01:52,520 --> 00:01:56,480
And that has to do with the
terms right and left

25
00:01:56,480 --> 00:01:58,840
politically.
So let's dig into that right

26
00:01:58,840 --> 00:02:01,800
now.
So we're again right and left

27
00:02:01,800 --> 00:02:02,280
here.
Right.

28
00:02:02,720 --> 00:02:06,960
This is the view of the right
versus the left in America, OK.

29
00:02:07,280 --> 00:02:10,160
Over here on the right side,
which typically means more

30
00:02:10,160 --> 00:02:11,880
conservative, you have
Republicans.

31
00:02:12,360 --> 00:02:15,880
Then way over here on the left,
we have the Democrats.

32
00:02:16,040 --> 00:02:19,600
Now it's up to some debate how
far apart they really are.

33
00:02:19,600 --> 00:02:22,760
All that other thing.
This is just simply an exercise

34
00:02:22,760 --> 00:02:25,920
to help you help illustrate what
it is I was talking to you about

35
00:02:25,920 --> 00:02:28,240
here.
So again, on the right side you

36
00:02:28,240 --> 00:02:31,600
have Republicans, and on the
left side you have Democrats,

37
00:02:31,960 --> 00:02:34,680
right being conservative, left
being liberal.

38
00:02:35,000 --> 00:02:39,880
OK, Now if we look at this, it
seems like they're miles apart,

39
00:02:39,880 --> 00:02:42,720
right?
But then confusion starts to set

40
00:02:42,720 --> 00:02:44,200
in.
If you're from Europe and you

41
00:02:44,200 --> 00:02:46,240
come to America.
And why is that?

42
00:02:47,360 --> 00:02:52,320
Because of how they view the
term right and left politically

43
00:02:52,320 --> 00:02:56,880
speaking.
On the right are the Nazis, On

44
00:02:56,880 --> 00:02:59,560
the left are the communists.
OK?

45
00:03:00,280 --> 00:03:05,480
Reason this is Nazis believed in
private ownership of business,

46
00:03:05,480 --> 00:03:07,960
but government was going to tell
you what to do with your

47
00:03:07,960 --> 00:03:09,640
business.
Communists just said I'm just

48
00:03:09,640 --> 00:03:12,600
going to take it.
OK, So again, right or left,

49
00:03:13,160 --> 00:03:16,440
depending on where you where,
where the party or the person

50
00:03:16,440 --> 00:03:21,560
falls on that spectrum.
Now it seems like it's kind of

51
00:03:21,560 --> 00:03:24,760
doesn't make sense, right?
Because Nazis had a lot of

52
00:03:24,760 --> 00:03:27,040
control, but they're on the
right side of things.

53
00:03:27,680 --> 00:03:31,840
Well, now if you look at right
and left from a worldview, it

54
00:03:31,840 --> 00:03:36,160
starts to come into focus.
Right over here we have the

55
00:03:36,160 --> 00:03:40,840
Republicans or conservatives,
right, who are small government

56
00:03:40,840 --> 00:03:45,840
people, want to have their own
business, want to just be left

57
00:03:45,840 --> 00:03:48,640
alone without the government
involving themselves in every

58
00:03:48,640 --> 00:03:51,360
facet of their lives.
Then over here, a little further

59
00:03:51,360 --> 00:03:53,200
to the left, you have the
Democrats.

60
00:03:53,520 --> 00:03:56,960
OK, now if you go all the way to
the left hand side of the

61
00:03:56,960 --> 00:04:00,720
spectrum, well, now there's the
Nazis and the Communists because

62
00:04:00,720 --> 00:04:03,400
they both wanted power from a
big government.

63
00:04:03,800 --> 00:04:06,760
It's just the Nazis wanted it a
little less.

64
00:04:07,160 --> 00:04:10,800
So you see how your frame of
reference here can absolutely

65
00:04:10,800 --> 00:04:15,560
dictate how it is you see the
world and how certain terms can

66
00:04:15,560 --> 00:04:20,560
become interchangeable with one
another when they don't really

67
00:04:20,560 --> 00:04:22,560
mean the same thing.
And that's what I wanted you to

68
00:04:22,560 --> 00:04:24,840
take away from this.
We're going to talk about some

69
00:04:24,840 --> 00:04:30,400
terms tonight that are not going
to mean the same thing to you as

70
00:04:30,400 --> 00:04:32,320
they mean to a Christian
nationalist.

71
00:04:32,680 --> 00:04:35,200
All right, so it's with
everything.

72
00:04:35,520 --> 00:04:42,160
The history is a good indication
of which way a, a, a movement

73
00:04:42,160 --> 00:04:46,240
could be heading, right?
Not always, but it doesn't hurt

74
00:04:46,240 --> 00:04:49,800
to know where it's coming from.
And if we look at Scripture,

75
00:04:49,800 --> 00:04:53,320
what does it say?
Can a bad fruit, bad tree

76
00:04:53,320 --> 00:04:56,360
produce good fruit?
Not usually.

77
00:04:56,560 --> 00:04:59,880
I mean hardly ever.
And so going back and looking at

78
00:04:59,880 --> 00:05:03,320
the history of things is
probably a good exercise to do

79
00:05:03,680 --> 00:05:07,280
when we're talking about these
types of movements.

80
00:05:07,680 --> 00:05:11,480
And when you start talking about
Christian nationalism, you have

81
00:05:11,480 --> 00:05:14,600
to start at the beginning.
And in America that starts with

82
00:05:14,600 --> 00:05:17,800
a guy named Gerald Lyman,
Kenneth Smith.

83
00:05:18,680 --> 00:05:21,320
But we're just going to call him
Kenneth Smith because that's a

84
00:05:21,320 --> 00:05:24,960
lot of words.
He's the father of modern day

85
00:05:24,960 --> 00:05:27,960
Christian nationalism.
Let me let me just pull up a

86
00:05:27,960 --> 00:05:31,760
picture of of this guy for you.
So this is him here.

87
00:05:33,080 --> 00:05:39,040
He is born in the late 18th
century, late 19th century,

88
00:05:39,040 --> 00:05:43,480
that'd be the late 1800s.
He is a preacher by profession.

89
00:05:43,840 --> 00:05:47,760
And because of his position as a
preacher slash pastor, he sees a

90
00:05:47,760 --> 00:05:51,800
lot of problems with social
ills, that sort of thing.

91
00:05:52,000 --> 00:05:54,680
And he begins to see these
problems and try to figure out

92
00:05:54,680 --> 00:05:58,320
what he can do to to fix it.
And the thing he has is he's got

93
00:05:58,320 --> 00:06:01,760
this idea that if he can just
mingle his religion with

94
00:06:01,760 --> 00:06:05,120
government, get government to
carry out his religion for him a

95
00:06:05,120 --> 00:06:11,120
little bit, he can go ahead and
he can start fixing some of the

96
00:06:11,120 --> 00:06:16,440
ills that are in the world.
So he he starts to do this and

97
00:06:16,440 --> 00:06:21,880
then the the stock market
collapses in 1929 and he really

98
00:06:21,880 --> 00:06:24,080
sees these social ills really
start to kick off.

99
00:06:24,080 --> 00:06:26,640
People are hungry, people are
scared.

100
00:06:26,880 --> 00:06:31,480
He sees that there's problems
and so he he ends up and he

101
00:06:31,480 --> 00:06:34,400
picks up moving, he picks up, he
ends up moving down to

102
00:06:34,400 --> 00:06:37,680
Louisiana.
And his his goal is there is

103
00:06:37,680 --> 00:06:41,280
he's going to infiltrate the
government of Louisiana first,

104
00:06:41,280 --> 00:06:43,400
right?
He's going to cozy up to some

105
00:06:43,400 --> 00:06:46,800
people and he sure does.
He ends up cozying up to a guy

106
00:06:47,160 --> 00:06:52,040
named Huey Long.
That's him right there.

107
00:06:52,360 --> 00:06:57,320
He was the governor at the time,
the 40th Governor of Louisiana

108
00:06:57,320 --> 00:07:02,760
from 1928 to 1932, and also a
United States Senator from 1930

109
00:07:02,880 --> 00:07:05,680
till 2 until his assassination
in 35.

110
00:07:06,200 --> 00:07:09,280
Now this guy.
He is a left wing populist

111
00:07:09,280 --> 00:07:12,680
member of the Democrat Party and
rose to national prominence

112
00:07:12,680 --> 00:07:17,160
during the Great Depression for
his vocal criticism of President

113
00:07:17,160 --> 00:07:21,600
Franklin D Roosevelt's New Deal.
Not necessarily because Huey

114
00:07:21,600 --> 00:07:25,480
here was a a warrior for liberty
and free markets, but because,

115
00:07:25,480 --> 00:07:31,360
as he put it, FD Rs New Deal
quote was insufficiently radical

116
00:07:31,360 --> 00:07:34,200
enough to accomplish the
redistribution of wealth

117
00:07:34,200 --> 00:07:41,480
necessary to affect real change.
So he's he's cozying up to all

118
00:07:41,480 --> 00:07:43,880
the right people right in in
Louisiana.

119
00:07:43,880 --> 00:07:47,040
He's trying to get inside the
government and he doesn't get

120
00:07:47,040 --> 00:07:50,800
inside, but he does get inside
with the people who influence

121
00:07:50,800 --> 00:07:55,400
government.
So at this point, Kenneth Smith,

122
00:07:55,400 --> 00:08:01,160
he's, he's a preacher and a
local pastor for a, a church

123
00:08:01,160 --> 00:08:05,960
there in Louisiana.
But in addition to that, because

124
00:08:05,960 --> 00:08:09,080
Huey likes Kenneth so much, he's
like, let me set you up with

125
00:08:09,080 --> 00:08:11,960
some of my people.
Well, some of the first people

126
00:08:11,960 --> 00:08:16,120
he sets, he sets him up with is
a labor union of all things.

127
00:08:16,120 --> 00:08:18,520
It was called.
Let me look it up here real

128
00:08:18,520 --> 00:08:23,160
quick, the American Federation
of of Labor and they would hold

129
00:08:23,160 --> 00:08:26,800
rallies, right?
And look, we all know labor

130
00:08:26,800 --> 00:08:30,120
unions for a long time have been
associated with the, you know,

131
00:08:30,120 --> 00:08:33,360
the extreme left, socialist,
communists, all sorts of things.

132
00:08:33,600 --> 00:08:37,799
And this union's no different.
And what's interesting is that

133
00:08:37,960 --> 00:08:43,799
when he gets set up to, to, to
meet with them, he does it under

134
00:08:43,799 --> 00:08:49,440
the guise of a preacher still.
And so AFL would become AFLCIO

135
00:08:49,440 --> 00:08:53,440
today.
They are certainly the biggest

136
00:08:54,080 --> 00:08:57,560
labor union in America, maybe
even the world.

137
00:08:57,560 --> 00:09:00,800
They're global now.
And I just went on and I decided

138
00:09:00,800 --> 00:09:03,000
to do a little research.
And sure enough, they still have

139
00:09:03,000 --> 00:09:06,480
a program for what they call,
quote, labor in the pulpit,

140
00:09:06,840 --> 00:09:09,360
right?
Which is basically this idea

141
00:09:09,360 --> 00:09:14,080
that if we can get preachers to
start giving our message on

142
00:09:14,080 --> 00:09:17,240
Sunday, maybe some of this
socialism, some of this

143
00:09:17,240 --> 00:09:22,440
communism might not be so bad.
And so that was kind of the

144
00:09:22,440 --> 00:09:23,120
plan.
Now.

145
00:09:23,760 --> 00:09:27,640
They're still doing that today.
And I don't think it's a it's a

146
00:09:27,640 --> 00:09:31,160
far stretch to say that they're
still in league with communists

147
00:09:31,160 --> 00:09:32,840
and socialists.
They work together.

148
00:09:33,120 --> 00:09:34,720
They've made no bones about
that.

149
00:09:34,960 --> 00:09:38,120
And if you just go to their
website, there's a couple of of

150
00:09:38,120 --> 00:09:41,440
kind of buzzwordy things that
you can look at which will

151
00:09:41,440 --> 00:09:43,960
usually give you a way.
This first one is corporate

152
00:09:43,960 --> 00:09:46,280
greed.
Look, I am not a fan of of

153
00:09:46,280 --> 00:09:49,000
corporate welfare.
I think that's a bad idea.

154
00:09:49,440 --> 00:09:52,960
I agree with them on that.
But again, this is kind of one

155
00:09:52,960 --> 00:09:54,480
of those words.
It's a buzzwords.

156
00:09:54,480 --> 00:09:58,960
It'll that'll tip a person or an
institution's hand and let you

157
00:09:58,960 --> 00:10:02,120
know what they're about.
The other is this global workers

158
00:10:02,120 --> 00:10:05,280
rights that is heavily
influenced by communism.

159
00:10:05,680 --> 00:10:10,080
Marx was very clear that you
cannot have a Marxist revolution

160
00:10:10,320 --> 00:10:15,160
without getting workers around
the world to unite.

161
00:10:15,600 --> 00:10:17,520
Communism has to be a global
thing.

162
00:10:18,360 --> 00:10:22,560
So that's what, what Huey,
excuse me, that's what Kenneth

163
00:10:22,560 --> 00:10:26,160
Smith does.
He gets set up by, by Huey Long,

164
00:10:26,160 --> 00:10:31,000
the governor, to go in and to
preach messages at these labor

165
00:10:31,000 --> 00:10:33,360
rallies, which I thought was
wild, right?

166
00:10:33,360 --> 00:10:35,400
I, I never, I never knew that
was a thing.

167
00:10:36,280 --> 00:10:40,960
Now, this ultimately leads to
Smith being fired from his job

168
00:10:41,280 --> 00:10:43,480
as a preacher at that local
church, right?

169
00:10:43,720 --> 00:10:47,720
So I can imagine very
conservative Deep South

170
00:10:48,520 --> 00:10:51,400
congregation probably was like,
yeah, that's enough of that

171
00:10:51,400 --> 00:10:54,120
stuff.
So at that point, he's kind of

172
00:10:54,120 --> 00:10:57,880
out of a job.
It's during this time that he

173
00:10:57,880 --> 00:11:02,080
becomes good friends with this.
I don't want to say, gentlemen,

174
00:11:02,360 --> 00:11:08,040
this guy, this guy's name is
William Dudley Pelley.

175
00:11:08,640 --> 00:11:13,320
Now, he was an American fascist
activist, journalist, writer,

176
00:11:13,480 --> 00:11:15,920
and just for good measure, and a
cultist.

177
00:11:16,400 --> 00:11:21,320
Now the other thing that that
our boy Pelley does here is he

178
00:11:21,320 --> 00:11:25,280
founds an organization called
the Silver Shirts, OK?

179
00:11:25,680 --> 00:11:28,400
And they were silver shirts with
a Big L on there.

180
00:11:28,640 --> 00:11:35,120
OK, now notice the pants there?
Yeah, that's that's a dead

181
00:11:35,120 --> 00:11:39,160
giveaway.
This dude is a major fanboy of

182
00:11:39,160 --> 00:11:43,880
Adolf Hitler.
In fact, his organization, he

183
00:11:43,880 --> 00:11:47,280
freely admits is a Nazi
organization in America.

184
00:11:47,800 --> 00:11:49,680
And that's what he's he's all
about.

185
00:11:50,080 --> 00:11:54,360
And this is the new guy that
Kenneth Smith is hanging around,

186
00:11:54,360 --> 00:11:56,960
right?
He loves this guy and he thinks

187
00:11:56,960 --> 00:11:59,800
this guy is 100% on the right
track.

188
00:12:00,040 --> 00:12:07,960
So much so that we do have
records of, of, of Kenneth Smith

189
00:12:07,960 --> 00:12:10,640
reaching out to Adolf Hitler
personally.

190
00:12:13,200 --> 00:12:17,920
Now, Kenneth Smith is so serious
about this stuff that he

191
00:12:17,920 --> 00:12:22,760
actually forms in 193043
something called the America

192
00:12:22,760 --> 00:12:26,600
First Party, OK.
And he actually throws his hat

193
00:12:26,600 --> 00:12:30,760
into the ring for the in 1944 to
become President of the United

194
00:12:30,760 --> 00:12:32,440
States.
And let me tell you, it went

195
00:12:32,440 --> 00:12:36,640
really, really well for him.
He ended up netting a whopping

196
00:12:36,880 --> 00:12:42,720
1800 votes nationwide.
Yeah, I think you can get 1800

197
00:12:42,720 --> 00:12:44,320
votes by just putting your name
down.

198
00:12:44,680 --> 00:12:48,760
So that's kind of what happens.
Now, obviously, he is defeated,

199
00:12:49,080 --> 00:12:51,680
so he retires again, kind of
licking his wound.

200
00:12:52,160 --> 00:12:55,680
Smith disappears for a few years
where he kind of retools his

201
00:12:55,680 --> 00:12:57,680
beliefs just a little bit in his
strategy.

202
00:12:58,320 --> 00:13:02,520
And rather than doing kind of a
full frontal invasion of the

203
00:13:02,520 --> 00:13:05,680
government like he tried last
time, his new idea is going to

204
00:13:05,680 --> 00:13:08,720
take far more of a subtle
religious kind of approach.

205
00:13:08,720 --> 00:13:11,840
Right now, he still believes all
the Nazi ideology.

206
00:13:12,000 --> 00:13:16,160
He's on board with that.
He just wants to couch it now in

207
00:13:16,160 --> 00:13:20,680
his Christianity and then try to
import that into the government.

208
00:13:21,520 --> 00:13:27,440
So he ends up forming a the the
Christian Nationalist Party,

209
00:13:27,600 --> 00:13:30,880
which actually ends up becoming
the Christian Nationalist

210
00:13:30,880 --> 00:13:33,760
Crusade, which is the
organization and it would be,

211
00:13:33,800 --> 00:13:38,480
would lead to the emergence of
Christian Identity as an as an

212
00:13:38,480 --> 00:13:42,720
organized movement in America.
Now, what is Christian Identity?

213
00:13:43,080 --> 00:13:44,600
Well, I'm kind of glad you asked
here.

214
00:13:44,920 --> 00:13:46,560
Christian Identity is a
movement.

215
00:13:46,560 --> 00:13:50,920
It's an offshoot of British
Israeli Israelism ideology.

216
00:13:51,360 --> 00:13:56,400
British Israelism is the belief
that Anglo-Saxon people are of

217
00:13:56,400 --> 00:13:59,760
the lost 10 tribes of Israel.
Now from a Mormon point of view,

218
00:13:59,760 --> 00:14:01,800
there is no problems with this
whatsoever.

219
00:14:02,120 --> 00:14:05,320
Joseph Smith taught this.
So there is no problems with

220
00:14:05,320 --> 00:14:08,280
this.
The rub comes in when you start

221
00:14:08,280 --> 00:14:11,640
looking at kind of the adjacent
doctrines that go along with

222
00:14:11,640 --> 00:14:14,120
this movement.
First, their view views on on

223
00:14:14,120 --> 00:14:16,360
the Jews.
They look at they, they

224
00:14:16,360 --> 00:14:20,640
basically say the Jews aren't
real Israelites, that they,

225
00:14:21,600 --> 00:14:23,480
they're not part of the tribe of
Judah.

226
00:14:23,720 --> 00:14:28,040
And that's all modern day Jews.
The next doctrine that's pretty

227
00:14:29,160 --> 00:14:33,440
suspect and quite frankly a
little disconcerting is the

228
00:14:33,440 --> 00:14:36,120
serpent seed doctrine.
And what that does is that

229
00:14:36,120 --> 00:14:40,280
basically postulates that Eve's
real sin wasn't in partaking of

230
00:14:40,280 --> 00:14:44,400
the forbidden fruit, but it was
actually because she had sexual

231
00:14:44,400 --> 00:14:47,480
intercourse with Lucifer.
And it's from that original

232
00:14:47,480 --> 00:14:53,840
parentage, black Lucifer and Eve
that all black people are

233
00:14:53,840 --> 00:14:57,080
descendants of.
Now, no matter how you feel

234
00:14:57,080 --> 00:14:59,960
about the priesthood band, I
think we could all agree that

235
00:14:59,960 --> 00:15:04,040
this is kind of a bad idea, bad
on on the very surface because

236
00:15:04,040 --> 00:15:06,760
quite frankly, it's unbiblical.
It it doesn't hold water with

237
00:15:06,760 --> 00:15:09,800
Scripture.
I mean, Genesis says, you know,

238
00:15:09,880 --> 00:15:12,720
Adam knew his wife Eve, and she
bare Cain, right?

239
00:15:13,000 --> 00:15:16,320
So that's well established.
The other problem is, is again,

240
00:15:16,320 --> 00:15:20,320
no matter how you feel about the
priesthood ban, black people are

241
00:15:20,320 --> 00:15:23,680
still people.
And anytime you dehumanize

242
00:15:23,680 --> 00:15:27,560
another group of people, history
tells us that then you can deny

243
00:15:27,560 --> 00:15:30,480
their rights and you have a
blank check on what to do with

244
00:15:30,480 --> 00:15:32,440
them.
And it's doubly bad when you

245
00:15:32,440 --> 00:15:36,800
say, no, no, no.
They're the offspring of Satan

246
00:15:36,800 --> 00:15:38,920
himself.
Highly problematic.

247
00:15:40,280 --> 00:15:45,080
And he imports all of this into
his version of Christian

248
00:15:45,080 --> 00:15:48,120
nationalism.
Now the Christian nationalist

249
00:15:48,120 --> 00:15:51,000
movement.
After a while it it seems to go

250
00:15:51,000 --> 00:15:53,320
into kind of a hibernation for
decades.

251
00:15:53,320 --> 00:15:56,280
Every once in a while you'll see
it flare up or, or shadows of

252
00:15:56,280 --> 00:15:59,800
it, but by and large, the
rhetoric really dies down around

253
00:15:59,800 --> 00:16:01,880
this.
However, if you kind of knew

254
00:16:01,880 --> 00:16:04,200
what to look for, you could tell
it was always kind of still

255
00:16:04,200 --> 00:16:06,920
there.
But in the last few years, it

256
00:16:06,920 --> 00:16:09,000
has started to become more and
more prevalent again.

257
00:16:09,600 --> 00:16:13,760
And after the assassination of
Charlie Kirk, it's become doubly

258
00:16:13,760 --> 00:16:16,680
so.
And this is going to prose the

259
00:16:16,680 --> 00:16:21,400
problems for Mormons.
OK, now I want to show you the

260
00:16:21,400 --> 00:16:26,760
key players and who are are the
prominent Christian nationalists

261
00:16:26,840 --> 00:16:32,640
for today.
One of them is a guy named Doug

262
00:16:32,640 --> 00:16:37,360
Wilson.
Now Doug Wilson is a pastor

263
00:16:37,360 --> 00:16:42,440
who's up in Moscow, ID and has a
congregation and has seated

264
00:16:42,440 --> 00:16:44,720
hundreds of churches around the
country.

265
00:16:45,080 --> 00:16:49,280
Now I want to be fair and clear
here to to Doug Wilson.

266
00:16:49,800 --> 00:16:53,320
He doesn't seem to have imported
all the other garbage that went

267
00:16:53,320 --> 00:16:59,520
with like British Israelis ISM
and early Christian nationalist

268
00:16:59,520 --> 00:17:01,320
movement.
He seems to have distanced

269
00:17:01,320 --> 00:17:04,200
himself from that.
But he does have some, some

270
00:17:04,200 --> 00:17:06,440
views that I, I feel are out
there anyway.

271
00:17:06,800 --> 00:17:11,480
Views like maybe we discounted
the natural affection between a

272
00:17:11,480 --> 00:17:14,119
slave and his master, whether
that be black or white.

273
00:17:15,359 --> 00:17:17,200
I'm not a, I'm not a huge fan of
slavery.

274
00:17:17,280 --> 00:17:23,040
I, I'm, I'm not down with that.
But hey, he is so, so that's him

275
00:17:23,040 --> 00:17:25,599
in a nutshell.
He is one of the major

276
00:17:25,599 --> 00:17:29,160
propagators of it today, and he
makes no bones about it.

277
00:17:29,160 --> 00:17:33,720
He wants to get his people into
positions of power so that they

278
00:17:33,720 --> 00:17:41,440
can now begin to legislate their
doctrine from the seat of power

279
00:17:41,440 --> 00:17:43,520
within the government.
And they've been pretty

280
00:17:43,520 --> 00:17:47,360
effective because there is a
high-ranking official in the

281
00:17:47,360 --> 00:17:51,320
Trump cabinet who goes to this
man's church.

282
00:17:52,800 --> 00:17:56,960
OK, Next we have Nick Fuentes,
Little Nicky, as I like to call

283
00:17:56,960 --> 00:17:59,440
him now.
He freely admits that he's a

284
00:17:59,440 --> 00:18:03,120
Christian nationalist.
He makes no bones about it, and

285
00:18:03,160 --> 00:18:06,360
he's got no compunction about
saying some other gruesome crap.

286
00:18:08,040 --> 00:18:12,640
I'm going to show you a list of
the things that Fuentes has said

287
00:18:12,640 --> 00:18:17,000
that just might make him the
love child of Adolf Hitler and

288
00:18:17,000 --> 00:18:21,040
Kenneth Smith.
One, he's got enormous praise

289
00:18:21,040 --> 00:18:24,600
for Hitler and Nazism.
He's made multiple remarks

290
00:18:24,600 --> 00:18:28,000
expressing admiration for Adolf
Hitler, saying quote, Hitler is

291
00:18:28,000 --> 00:18:30,000
awesome.
Hitler was right.

292
00:18:30,680 --> 00:18:35,200
And one live stream he gave a
Nazi salute and then expects

293
00:18:35,480 --> 00:18:39,200
expressed his willingness to
commit acts of political

294
00:18:39,200 --> 00:18:42,840
violence.
He went on in 2021 to praise the

295
00:18:42,840 --> 00:18:47,320
Taliban for their takeover.
And then he he has a propensity

296
00:18:47,320 --> 00:18:50,120
for advocating for political
violence.

297
00:18:50,800 --> 00:18:55,040
In another episode, he stated
that he would perform, quote,

298
00:18:55,520 --> 00:19:00,680
extrajudicial killing or torture
if he was ordered by an

299
00:19:00,680 --> 00:19:04,440
acceptable dictator.
Now, there's some more names

300
00:19:04,440 --> 00:19:07,680
we're going to go over later,
but that's kind of the major

301
00:19:07,680 --> 00:19:09,520
players right now.
And there's others coming on.

302
00:19:09,760 --> 00:19:15,640
There's Candace Owens and and
Pastor Mark Driscoll.

303
00:19:15,840 --> 00:19:18,280
And I'm going to show both of
them here in just a second.

304
00:19:19,160 --> 00:19:21,280
So let's sum this part all up
here.

305
00:19:21,280 --> 00:19:25,480
So what is Christian
nationalism?

306
00:19:26,360 --> 00:19:32,880
It's a fusion of of Christianity
with national identity that

307
00:19:32,880 --> 00:19:38,400
seeks to legislate their version
of Christianity from the seat of

308
00:19:38,400 --> 00:19:42,800
power in the United States.
Now, many Mormons have gone

309
00:19:42,800 --> 00:19:44,840
pandering after the title of
Christian.

310
00:19:45,240 --> 00:19:49,640
That term won't mean the same
thing to a Mormon as it does to

311
00:19:49,640 --> 00:19:52,880
a Christian nationalist.
A Christian nationalist will say

312
00:19:52,880 --> 00:19:55,800
that a Christian is someone who
believes in first sola

313
00:19:55,800 --> 00:20:00,160
scriptura, and there's only one
scripture, and that is the Holy

314
00:20:00,160 --> 00:20:02,760
Bible.
OK, so if it's not in the Bible,

315
00:20:02,760 --> 00:20:06,080
it can't be right?
And the Bible is the only

316
00:20:06,080 --> 00:20:10,200
arbiter, sola scriptura.
The second is the Trinity, one

317
00:20:10,200 --> 00:20:12,400
God manifest in three
personalities.

318
00:20:12,720 --> 00:20:16,160
So what Joseph saw on the Grove
with two distinct persons, just

319
00:20:16,440 --> 00:20:19,760
they call that a falsehood.
They believe heavily in the

320
00:20:19,760 --> 00:20:22,920
Trinity and that is a big marker
for what they will term a

321
00:20:22,960 --> 00:20:28,200
traditional Christian.
The other things like plural

322
00:20:28,200 --> 00:20:30,640
marriage out the door, they're
not going to be down with that.

323
00:20:30,640 --> 00:20:34,440
So for us as fundamentalists
understand, we don't fit there

324
00:20:34,920 --> 00:20:37,480
then no eternal marriage either,
right?

325
00:20:37,480 --> 00:20:40,840
If sola scriptura is their thing
and the Bible's the only thing

326
00:20:41,720 --> 00:20:47,320
without some context from Joseph
Smith and history about Judaism,

327
00:20:47,600 --> 00:20:50,800
you could see where that saying
by the Savior they're neither

328
00:20:50,800 --> 00:20:53,680
married nor given in marriage in
the resurrection could really

329
00:20:53,680 --> 00:20:56,440
throw a kink in that.
So this idea of eternal marriage

330
00:20:56,440 --> 00:21:00,200
gone, the deification of man,
right?

331
00:21:00,320 --> 00:21:05,000
We can step up and become as man
as God is now again, another

332
00:21:05,000 --> 00:21:09,480
central teaching to Mormonism
that will not fit within their

333
00:21:09,480 --> 00:21:11,960
traditional view of what
Christianity is.

334
00:21:12,200 --> 00:21:14,880
OK, now the government's role
again.

335
00:21:14,880 --> 00:21:19,200
They want to legislate their
version of Christianity from the

336
00:21:19,200 --> 00:21:22,000
seat of power.
The Christian nationalist seek

337
00:21:22,000 --> 00:21:24,880
to have the government promote
their worldview through

338
00:21:24,880 --> 00:21:27,160
legislation and enforcement of
those laws.

339
00:21:27,560 --> 00:21:32,520
Sometimes they feel like they
are divinely mandated to make

340
00:21:32,520 --> 00:21:35,880
sure that they fix everything
wrong in the Constitution.

341
00:21:36,160 --> 00:21:38,720
Now, let's be clear, I've said
this before a couple different

342
00:21:38,720 --> 00:21:43,160
times that that one quote about
with from Adams to Jefferson

343
00:21:43,160 --> 00:21:46,280
where, where Adams tells
Jefferson, hey, we should have

344
00:21:46,280 --> 00:21:48,760
put more Deuteronomy into the
Constitution.

345
00:21:49,080 --> 00:21:50,720
And Jefferson says, don't worry
about it.

346
00:21:51,800 --> 00:21:54,360
A future generation is going to
come along and they're going to

347
00:21:54,360 --> 00:21:57,160
see what we were trying to do
and they'll get it.

348
00:21:57,160 --> 00:22:00,240
Right now, I don't think he's
talking about Christian

349
00:22:00,240 --> 00:22:02,760
nationalism.
What I do think he's talking

350
00:22:02,760 --> 00:22:08,160
about is things like a balanced
budget amendment, being a lender

351
00:22:08,160 --> 00:22:11,080
nation, not a borrower nation,
those sorts of things.

352
00:22:11,960 --> 00:22:16,160
OK, so that's that's kind of
where where that comes through.

353
00:22:16,160 --> 00:22:19,440
Now the Christian Christian
nationalist wants everyone to

354
00:22:19,440 --> 00:22:22,680
bow to their idea of who God is
and what he wants.

355
00:22:23,040 --> 00:22:26,760
The well taught Mormon
understands that government's

356
00:22:26,760 --> 00:22:31,520
place is there to protect people
in their right to worship God.

357
00:22:34,400 --> 00:22:38,120
As a Mormon, we need to be in
touch with those early teachings

358
00:22:38,120 --> 00:22:40,520
for Smith and Brigham Young.
Why is that?

359
00:22:40,920 --> 00:22:44,320
Because that sets the agenda for
us.

360
00:22:44,440 --> 00:22:48,360
OK, That's what God revealed to
Joseph and Joseph told us.

361
00:22:49,320 --> 00:22:53,680
Now I know Joseph had his
presidential run, but that was

362
00:22:53,680 --> 00:22:58,320
more out of protest as anything
else drawing attention to the

363
00:22:58,320 --> 00:23:02,160
Saints plight.
What God did tell Joseph for

364
00:23:02,160 --> 00:23:06,360
sure that we can take to the
bank is create a new society.

365
00:23:06,400 --> 00:23:09,360
Zion.
OK, so there again we see a

366
00:23:09,360 --> 00:23:11,760
couple of differences and how
they do it.

367
00:23:12,240 --> 00:23:15,920
Now what's the danger to Mormons
in Christian nationalism?

368
00:23:16,440 --> 00:23:18,440
Well, let's play this out right
now.

369
00:23:18,440 --> 00:23:21,760
The Christian nationalists might
actually encourage us for our

370
00:23:21,760 --> 00:23:26,200
help, heck, even ask us for our
help, because we have common

371
00:23:26,200 --> 00:23:28,800
foes.
We have an ever expanding

372
00:23:28,800 --> 00:23:32,680
godless society where God is
driven out, is driven out of the

373
00:23:32,680 --> 00:23:35,920
public square.
We have the LGBTQ trans agenda

374
00:23:35,920 --> 00:23:38,240
who's seeking to indoctrinate
our children.

375
00:23:38,680 --> 00:23:42,240
We got abortions, assaults on
normative gender roles, all of

376
00:23:42,240 --> 00:23:45,160
it, right?
And those things, we are going

377
00:23:45,160 --> 00:23:47,840
to agree with the Christian
nationalists on that Those are

378
00:23:47,840 --> 00:23:51,120
bad things, right?
And so at first, it's going to

379
00:23:51,120 --> 00:23:52,800
feel like, hey, these are our
allies.

380
00:23:53,280 --> 00:23:55,880
But I don't think that's it.
Let's ask this question.

381
00:23:56,280 --> 00:24:01,160
Suppose that's the case.
Suppose we work together and we

382
00:24:01,160 --> 00:24:04,000
push those fringe groups out to
the fringes.

383
00:24:04,320 --> 00:24:07,680
OK.
Do you think they're going to be

384
00:24:07,680 --> 00:24:09,680
content to just let us hang with
them?

385
00:24:09,680 --> 00:24:12,600
Are they going to be like, golly
Gee, those Mormons, they sure

386
00:24:12,600 --> 00:24:14,680
are great.
They totally fit with us.

387
00:24:15,360 --> 00:24:17,600
I think the answer is a big
negative on that one.

388
00:24:18,600 --> 00:24:22,440
I think the far more likely
scenario is that Mormons,

389
00:24:22,440 --> 00:24:26,200
especially the Brighamite ones,
yeah, I think we're we're going

390
00:24:26,200 --> 00:24:28,360
to be on their outs.
We're going to be the the next

391
00:24:28,360 --> 00:24:30,920
guys to be in their sights for
all those reasons I just

392
00:24:30,920 --> 00:24:34,640
mentioned, right?
We hold, we don't hold to Sola

393
00:24:34,640 --> 00:24:40,160
Script Torah.
We do not hold to to, you know,

394
00:24:40,160 --> 00:24:41,920
only being married for this
life.

395
00:24:42,120 --> 00:24:47,360
We do have a different view of
who God is, not a Trinitarian

396
00:24:47,360 --> 00:24:50,200
view.
At some point we will be next.

397
00:24:50,560 --> 00:24:53,680
Now to point this out, I want to
go to one of the pastors I told

398
00:24:53,680 --> 00:24:57,200
you about, Mark Driscoll, and I
want to tear that apart here

399
00:24:57,400 --> 00:25:00,880
after I show you this video.
It's globalism.

400
00:25:01,240 --> 00:25:02,920
So we're going to answer the
question, should we be

401
00:25:02,920 --> 00:25:07,320
nationalist, loving our nation
first, or globalist, hurting our

402
00:25:07,320 --> 00:25:09,160
nation for the cause of other
nations?

403
00:25:09,600 --> 00:25:11,840
Some of you may wonder where,
where's Mark going with this?

404
00:25:11,880 --> 00:25:13,440
I'm going to the book of
Genesis.

405
00:25:13,680 --> 00:25:16,400
What I'm going to do today, I'm
going to quote for you a number

406
00:25:16,400 --> 00:25:19,120
of scriptures.
Every single scripture comes

407
00:25:19,120 --> 00:25:21,120
from a book of the Bible that
I've taught.

408
00:25:21,880 --> 00:25:23,680
So we're going to pull some
themes and threads out of the

409
00:25:23,680 --> 00:25:26,640
Bible and what happens is
oftentimes people will say,

410
00:25:26,640 --> 00:25:29,200
well, that's political.
You shouldn't be political.

411
00:25:29,320 --> 00:25:30,640
Christians should just be
biblical.

412
00:25:30,640 --> 00:25:34,760
Let me tell you this, the Bible
is not just biblical, it's also

413
00:25:34,760 --> 00:25:37,640
political because the Bible
talks about nations and

414
00:25:37,640 --> 00:25:40,000
governments, nationalism and
globalism.

415
00:25:40,000 --> 00:25:42,320
Are you ready to go?
I don't care either way.

416
00:25:42,320 --> 00:25:45,120
I'm going.
And so Genesis 11, God is

417
00:25:45,120 --> 00:25:47,600
against globalism.
This is the first human attempt

418
00:25:47,880 --> 00:25:50,240
at globalism.
Genesis 11 one through 9.

419
00:25:50,520 --> 00:25:54,800
Now the whole earth had one
language, that's globalism and

420
00:25:54,800 --> 00:25:57,280
the same words.
And as the people migrated from

421
00:25:57,280 --> 00:26:00,360
the East in the Bible, when you
go E, you're running away from

422
00:26:00,360 --> 00:26:02,040
God.
So these are ungodly people.

423
00:26:02,400 --> 00:26:04,560
They found a plane in the land
of Shinar.

424
00:26:05,160 --> 00:26:08,560
Later this will become Babylon.
Today we would call it A.

425
00:26:08,560 --> 00:26:10,840
Rock.
And settled there they said,

426
00:26:10,840 --> 00:26:15,240
come, let us build ourselves a
city, counterfeit of this God

427
00:26:15,240 --> 00:26:19,080
city, the new Jerusalem, heaven
and a tower with its top in the

428
00:26:19,080 --> 00:26:20,960
heavens.
Let's go up and be like God.

429
00:26:21,200 --> 00:26:23,680
Look down on everybody else.
Let us make a name for

430
00:26:23,680 --> 00:26:25,840
ourselves.
We're not going to glorify God's

431
00:26:25,840 --> 00:26:27,200
name.
We're going to glorify our name

432
00:26:27,520 --> 00:26:30,120
lest we be dispersed over the
face of the whole earth.

433
00:26:30,840 --> 00:26:33,680
The Lord, that's the Lord Jesus
Christ, came down to see the

434
00:26:33,680 --> 00:26:36,760
city and the tower with which
the children of men had built.

435
00:26:37,000 --> 00:26:40,960
And the Lord said, behold, there
are one people, globalism, one

436
00:26:40,960 --> 00:26:44,720
language globalism.
This is only the beginning of

437
00:26:44,720 --> 00:26:47,800
what they will do, and nothing
that they propose to do will be

438
00:26:47,800 --> 00:26:50,720
impossible for them.
Come, let us go down there,

439
00:26:50,720 --> 00:26:53,960
confuse their languages so they
may not understand one another's

440
00:26:53,960 --> 00:26:57,840
speech.
And the Lord dispersed them from

441
00:26:57,840 --> 00:27:00,960
there over the face of all the
earth nations.

442
00:27:01,440 --> 00:27:05,880
You see that God scattered them
into nations with languages, and

443
00:27:05,880 --> 00:27:08,880
they left off building the city.
Therefore its name was called

444
00:27:09,200 --> 00:27:12,920
Babel, because there the Lord
confused the languages of all

445
00:27:12,920 --> 00:27:14,600
the earth.
And from there the Lord

446
00:27:14,600 --> 00:27:17,320
dispersed them from over the
face of all the earth.

447
00:27:17,560 --> 00:27:20,120
OK, let me just say from the
outset, there's a lot there that

448
00:27:20,120 --> 00:27:22,240
he said that I actually agree
with, right?

449
00:27:22,480 --> 00:27:25,720
I am not a globalist.
I think globalism is a bad, bad

450
00:27:25,720 --> 00:27:27,640
thing.
I think it's detrimental to

451
00:27:27,640 --> 00:27:29,760
nations and individuals and
families.

452
00:27:30,120 --> 00:27:33,920
So I agree with him in that the
point of that video was to show

453
00:27:33,920 --> 00:27:36,000
that he is keyed into this,
right?

454
00:27:36,240 --> 00:27:38,720
He is absolutely a Christian
nationalist.

455
00:27:39,120 --> 00:27:40,600
That's what that video was
about.

456
00:27:40,920 --> 00:27:44,000
Now I'm going to show you how he
feels about Mormons.

457
00:27:44,440 --> 00:27:46,560
Well, we're actually members of
the Church of Jesus Christ of

458
00:27:46,560 --> 00:27:48,200
Latter Day Saints.
We're members.

459
00:27:48,200 --> 00:27:50,280
We got married after six months
of dating.

460
00:27:50,400 --> 00:27:53,600
We say frictions, heck and Dang
instead of cuss words.

461
00:27:53,720 --> 00:27:56,280
Remembers we believe in the
Bible even though people don't

462
00:27:56,280 --> 00:27:59,040
think we do.
We worship Jesus Christ, not

463
00:27:59,040 --> 00:28:01,480
Joseph Smith people.
Think that we're in a cult and

464
00:28:01,480 --> 00:28:04,480
that I have sister wives.
Remembers whether church is at

465
00:28:04,560 --> 00:28:08,280
8:30 or 1:00, we're still late.
We're from Utah, I got married

466
00:28:08,280 --> 00:28:10,080
in the Bountiful Temple when I
was 19.

467
00:28:10,520 --> 00:28:13,320
You're in a cult.
A cult is a deviation from

468
00:28:13,320 --> 00:28:17,120
biblical Christianity, and Paul
talks about receiving another

469
00:28:17,120 --> 00:28:18,960
Christ.
So what you've got, you've got

470
00:28:18,960 --> 00:28:22,280
to counterfeit fake Jesus.
You had a demon show up to

471
00:28:22,280 --> 00:28:25,240
commence your religion.
You've had demons show up to

472
00:28:25,280 --> 00:28:29,040
write other books in addition to
the Bible for your religion.

473
00:28:29,040 --> 00:28:32,760
And your religion does not teach
that Jesus Christ is eternally

474
00:28:32,760 --> 00:28:35,640
the creator God, that he is a
created being.

475
00:28:36,320 --> 00:28:39,600
Well, I don't know about anybody
else, but I think he likes us.

476
00:28:40,120 --> 00:28:44,480
Like, I'm totally expecting a
Christmas card from Pastor

477
00:28:44,480 --> 00:28:47,360
Driscoll this year.
Look, this isn't anything new.

478
00:28:48,640 --> 00:28:52,120
Not the first time a religious
leader has claimed that

479
00:28:52,120 --> 00:28:57,120
Mormonism is demonic.
In fact, Joseph Smith deals with

480
00:28:57,120 --> 00:28:59,400
it himself, right?
I want to read right now from

481
00:28:59,400 --> 00:29:05,840
his account of when he talks to
Reverend Samuel Stebbins about

482
00:29:06,400 --> 00:29:08,760
his experience in the Sacred
Grove.

483
00:29:09,960 --> 00:29:15,960
He said he felt like quote, he
was treated his communication

484
00:29:15,960 --> 00:29:19,320
not only lightly but with great
contempt, saying it was all of

485
00:29:19,320 --> 00:29:23,720
the devil, as Reverend Samuel
Stebbins warned, and similar to

486
00:29:23,720 --> 00:29:26,520
the experience of Benjamin
Abbott and we'll talk about him

487
00:29:26,520 --> 00:29:29,640
in a second.
Abbott's Abbott.

488
00:29:29,640 --> 00:29:32,800
Smith's experience was dismissed
as the work of the devil.

489
00:29:33,200 --> 00:29:36,680
While he may have been hurt or
surprised at the accusation, it

490
00:29:36,680 --> 00:29:41,120
is possible that Smith knew that
that reaction would be possible

491
00:29:41,120 --> 00:29:45,640
to his spiritual experience.
So again, you know, Joseph tries

492
00:29:45,640 --> 00:29:48,040
to tell this minister, you know,
this is what happened.

493
00:29:48,040 --> 00:29:55,160
I saw God and the, the, the
remark was it's of the devil,

494
00:29:55,160 --> 00:29:57,800
right?
Pastor Mark Driscoll and a lot

495
00:29:57,800 --> 00:30:01,960
of Christians are going to say
that Benjamin Abbott was a guy

496
00:30:01,960 --> 00:30:05,080
who received a revelation or a
dream.

497
00:30:05,400 --> 00:30:08,480
And when he told his Clair Jamin
about it, it was the same thing.

498
00:30:08,480 --> 00:30:11,600
Oh, it's of the devil.
This is nothing new.

499
00:30:12,160 --> 00:30:14,360
This has been here for quite a
while.

500
00:30:14,800 --> 00:30:17,440
And it seems to to fit that
pattern.

501
00:30:18,000 --> 00:30:24,720
And so not only is it dismissive
of of the truth claims, but it

502
00:30:24,720 --> 00:30:30,520
ascribes something to leaders in
Mormonism historically as well

503
00:30:30,520 --> 00:30:32,800
as the followers of Mormonism
today.

504
00:30:33,080 --> 00:30:35,040
That is a bit dehumanizing,
right?

505
00:30:35,360 --> 00:30:37,840
Oh, well, you're probably
possessed.

506
00:30:38,000 --> 00:30:41,280
You know, you spoke with a
demon, those sorts of things.

507
00:30:42,680 --> 00:30:47,200
It's, it's a bit problematic.
And so we need to understand

508
00:30:47,200 --> 00:30:50,400
that we're not going to fit the
the Christian nationalist

509
00:30:50,400 --> 00:30:54,160
version of what Christian is.
It's just not going to happen.

510
00:30:54,480 --> 00:30:58,160
OK.
The other thing that we get beat

511
00:30:58,160 --> 00:31:05,000
up with a lot is this idea that
we're not quite American enough.

512
00:31:05,240 --> 00:31:10,000
And there have been all sorts of
conspiracy theories that have

513
00:31:10,000 --> 00:31:13,080
been formed about Mormons and
throughout time.

514
00:31:13,560 --> 00:31:16,240
And we're seeing that again
right now.

515
00:31:17,400 --> 00:31:22,000
And this will speak to the
nationalist part and being a

516
00:31:22,000 --> 00:31:25,160
Mormon and if it, Chris, fits
Christian nationalism.

517
00:31:25,960 --> 00:31:28,880
To illustrate this, I actually
want to go through a couple

518
00:31:28,880 --> 00:31:33,120
different videos that Candace
Owens has posted where she talks

519
00:31:33,120 --> 00:31:36,400
about Mormons.
And so this is a couple

520
00:31:36,400 --> 00:31:38,000
different videos that are
stitched together.

521
00:31:38,000 --> 00:31:39,920
And I want to share that with
you right now and just kind of

522
00:31:39,920 --> 00:31:41,280
break them down here a little
bit.

523
00:31:41,600 --> 00:31:44,080
Because I think this really
illustrates and drives home the

524
00:31:44,080 --> 00:31:48,160
point here that that we're not
going to fit with what they feel

525
00:31:48,160 --> 00:31:51,800
like an American should be in
terms of being a Christian

526
00:31:51,800 --> 00:31:53,560
nationalist.
So let's do that right now.

527
00:31:54,520 --> 00:31:58,520
Similarly, like I just said, had
a vivid dream this weekend and

528
00:31:58,520 --> 00:32:02,640
Charlie came to me and he told
me that he was betrayed.

529
00:32:03,280 --> 00:32:06,840
And so for me, you don't have to
believe that Tyler Boyer is the.

530
00:32:07,400 --> 00:32:11,560
OK, so that's what she says,
right?

531
00:32:11,680 --> 00:32:15,480
She says, hey, I had this
spiritual manifestation.

532
00:32:15,480 --> 00:32:18,120
Charlie Kirk came to me and that
he was betrayed.

533
00:32:18,120 --> 00:32:20,920
So I'm going to back this up
just a little bit here, and

534
00:32:20,920 --> 00:32:22,920
we're going to hear how he was
betrayed, Tyler.

535
00:32:23,760 --> 00:32:26,480
Boyer is the king of Shady at
Turning Point USA.

536
00:32:26,560 --> 00:32:30,760
He is the one like I said, that
has he has hired every person

537
00:32:31,320 --> 00:32:33,800
around Charlie.
Joke's on you if you think

538
00:32:33,800 --> 00:32:35,640
Turning Point USA is a Christian
organization.

539
00:32:35,640 --> 00:32:39,720
It's a Mormon one.
OK, let's stop that right there.

540
00:32:40,080 --> 00:32:42,520
So she's setting it up right?
I had this dream.

541
00:32:42,520 --> 00:32:45,800
Charlie told me he was betrayed.
Then there's this guy Tyler

542
00:32:45,800 --> 00:32:49,640
Boyer who's a Mormon, and the
joke's on you if you think

543
00:32:49,640 --> 00:32:52,560
Turning Point USA was a
Christian organization.

544
00:32:52,560 --> 00:32:56,760
It was a Mormon one.
OK, this goes to show her

545
00:32:56,800 --> 00:32:59,880
ignorance about Mormonism in
general.

546
00:33:00,440 --> 00:33:05,600
First point, the Turning Point
USA headquarters is in Arizona.

547
00:33:06,160 --> 00:33:10,880
There is a massive Mormon
population in that state.

548
00:33:12,040 --> 00:33:15,320
Second point, Mormons, by and
large, are some of the most

549
00:33:15,320 --> 00:33:18,520
patriotic individuals that you
will ever find.

550
00:33:19,160 --> 00:33:23,600
It's not a surprise that Mormons
came out of the woodwork to help

551
00:33:23,600 --> 00:33:27,280
with this work that Charlie was
starting because that's what we

552
00:33:27,280 --> 00:33:31,600
do, especially when it comes to
matters of liberty and that sort

553
00:33:31,600 --> 00:33:33,880
of thing.
So she's completely uninformed

554
00:33:33,880 --> 00:33:35,480
here.
Let's go ahead and let's

555
00:33:35,480 --> 00:33:39,960
continue to listen on here.
OK, and strangely, I'm not

556
00:33:39,960 --> 00:33:40,840
kidding.
I'm going to show you these

557
00:33:40,840 --> 00:33:44,960
messages I came across what
looked to me like a bunch of

558
00:33:44,960 --> 00:33:53,640
people talking about bees, like
literally bees in a way.

559
00:33:53,760 --> 00:33:55,680
That's the only way I can
describe it to you is like they

560
00:33:55,680 --> 00:33:58,160
were speaking about bees, but
they weren't speaking about

561
00:33:58,160 --> 00:33:59,840
bees.
It was a very coded.

562
00:34:00,160 --> 00:34:02,400
Then came September 10th.
Obviously Charlie lost his life.

563
00:34:02,400 --> 00:34:08,199
And a few days later I was told
and I sensed instantly that

564
00:34:08,199 --> 00:34:10,199
there was like a hive of people
that were involved in this.

565
00:34:10,199 --> 00:34:11,679
I just knew it.
And when it happened, I just

566
00:34:11,679 --> 00:34:16,800
went, oh, my goodness.
And my gut is telling me that

567
00:34:16,800 --> 00:34:18,960
this was the thing that the
dread that I sensed that was

568
00:34:18,960 --> 00:34:21,000
coming out.
And I had no idea.

569
00:34:21,000 --> 00:34:24,840
I am not a flag person at all.
And then someone told me, and I

570
00:34:24,840 --> 00:34:28,840
was astonished that Utah
recently, extraordinarily, you

571
00:34:28,840 --> 00:34:31,719
know, did modernize their bee
flag.

572
00:34:31,719 --> 00:34:38,199
I had no idea that the Utah
State flag is a hexagonal

573
00:34:38,400 --> 00:34:41,600
beehive, right?
And I mean, notice to me that it

574
00:34:41,800 --> 00:34:43,520
has always been the Beehive
state.

575
00:34:43,520 --> 00:34:46,320
So in 2024, they modernized
their flag, but they've always

576
00:34:46,320 --> 00:34:48,480
been known as the Beehive state.
And to be clear, it's not

577
00:34:48,480 --> 00:34:50,239
because they make honey, it's
not because they have a high

578
00:34:50,239 --> 00:34:52,960
presence of bees.
In fact, in terms of making

579
00:34:52,960 --> 00:34:57,720
honey or bee related products,
they rank #24 it's actually the

580
00:34:57,720 --> 00:35:02,120
beehive state.
It's relates to the Mormon

581
00:35:02,120 --> 00:35:03,800
church, the Church of Latter Day
Saints.

582
00:35:03,840 --> 00:35:06,880
Early Mormon pioneers founded
that state and they liked the

583
00:35:06,880 --> 00:35:11,680
idea of a beehive working toward
a common good.

584
00:35:11,680 --> 00:35:15,280
Now, if that sounds vaguely
familiar or communist to you,

585
00:35:15,360 --> 00:35:18,160
the idea of worker bees, yes,
that's where it's from.

586
00:35:18,360 --> 00:35:20,320
So, so what's happening here?
Well, I can tell you my

587
00:35:20,320 --> 00:35:23,040
suspicion.
I think that this is a program.

588
00:35:23,240 --> 00:35:29,120
I do, I don't know know, but I
know you know, I don't know

589
00:35:29,120 --> 00:35:32,960
know, but I know when I started
piercing this layer of the

590
00:35:32,960 --> 00:35:36,000
Mormon church, I was like, is
this a church or is this a real

591
00:35:36,000 --> 00:35:38,560
estate empire?
Never seen so many real estate

592
00:35:38,560 --> 00:35:41,280
transactions in my life.
People that were paying in cash,

593
00:35:41,480 --> 00:35:44,600
paying cash more than what the
property was worth.

594
00:35:44,800 --> 00:35:49,080
And I'm going me when I see this
much real estate being purchased

595
00:35:49,080 --> 00:35:51,800
in cash, I know a thing or two
about money laundering.

596
00:35:51,800 --> 00:35:55,360
It's a good business to be in is
all I'm saying, right.

597
00:35:55,360 --> 00:35:58,840
It's a good business to be in.
I similarly like I just said.

598
00:36:00,040 --> 00:36:08,240
Hey, now that we all took a trip
on some crazy town on the

599
00:36:08,240 --> 00:36:10,400
insanity train, let's break this
down.

600
00:36:12,880 --> 00:36:20,320
She focuses on bees OK and again
showing a massive amount of

601
00:36:20,320 --> 00:36:25,160
ignorance.
She is like OK I get that the

602
00:36:25,160 --> 00:36:28,960
Mormons use it, but it's really
coded language for Marxism.

603
00:36:34,490 --> 00:36:36,730
Nothing could be farther from
the truth.

604
00:36:37,290 --> 00:36:41,570
Almost all Mormons I know are
extremely patriotic.

605
00:36:41,890 --> 00:36:45,960
She needs to go look up Ezra
Kath Benson that will that will

606
00:36:45,960 --> 00:36:48,360
do it.
Look, I've had my problems with

607
00:36:48,360 --> 00:36:50,320
the LDS church.
I have called them out when I

608
00:36:50,320 --> 00:36:55,240
felt appropriate.
But the one thing I'm sure of is

609
00:36:55,240 --> 00:37:01,560
that they are not participating
in a communist plot, deep state

610
00:37:01,560 --> 00:37:06,160
thing going on.
I don't think they were

611
00:37:06,160 --> 00:37:08,160
responsible for the death of
Charlie Kirk.

612
00:37:10,120 --> 00:37:14,560
I think what we are seeing here
is a woman who is massively

613
00:37:15,040 --> 00:37:20,040
uninformed, extremely ignorant
of Mormonism in his population.

614
00:37:20,880 --> 00:37:25,400
If she understood what was
really going on, she would get

615
00:37:25,760 --> 00:37:33,160
that the the the the beehive and
the bees have gone back to the

616
00:37:33,160 --> 00:37:36,240
very beginning of of the
church's inception.

617
00:37:37,800 --> 00:37:42,000
It, it means industry, it means
going to work and, and providing

618
00:37:42,000 --> 00:37:44,720
for your family and being a
contributing member of society.

619
00:37:45,680 --> 00:37:49,000
So for her to roll out with this
is extremely ignorant on her

620
00:37:49,000 --> 00:37:51,360
part.
Do your homework first, Candy,

621
00:37:51,600 --> 00:37:56,000
before you decide just to jump
in here and start spouting at

622
00:37:56,000 --> 00:37:58,760
the lip because you look kind of
silly at the moment and quite

623
00:37:58,760 --> 00:38:01,440
frankly, you're demonizing a
whole bunch of people you

624
00:38:01,440 --> 00:38:07,760
obviously know nothing about.
But again, not the first time

625
00:38:07,760 --> 00:38:10,600
this has happened, right?
Let's go back into Joseph

626
00:38:10,600 --> 00:38:15,560
Smith's day, right?
When he's taken away from

627
00:38:15,560 --> 00:38:20,920
Missouri to Liberty Jail or
what's the charge?

628
00:38:21,320 --> 00:38:23,800
What's he jailed on?
Treason.

629
00:38:25,040 --> 00:38:31,480
And it was that same reason and
alleged treason that gives

630
00:38:31,680 --> 00:38:34,680
little Buller and Boggs the
opportunity to issue the

631
00:38:34,840 --> 00:38:39,440
extermination order, which ends
in the death of 17 Mormons at

632
00:38:39,440 --> 00:38:42,720
Hans Mill, some of those
children, and then driving

633
00:38:42,720 --> 00:38:49,160
people out into the cold in the
winter in the Midwest to the

634
00:38:49,160 --> 00:38:54,400
tune of about 14,000 people.
And when Joseph Smith gets taken

635
00:38:54,520 --> 00:38:56,800
to Carthage Jail, what's the
charge?

636
00:38:57,240 --> 00:39:02,000
It's treason.
It's it's treason.

637
00:39:04,880 --> 00:39:12,480
This is not the first time that
we have seen the charge of not

638
00:39:12,480 --> 00:39:16,200
being American enough being
leveled against the Mormons.

639
00:39:16,200 --> 00:39:21,200
This is old hat for us.
Now, we've just went over a

640
00:39:21,200 --> 00:39:23,160
little bit of stuff here.
I've shown you the history of

641
00:39:23,160 --> 00:39:25,720
Christian nationalism.
I've showed you where it stands

642
00:39:25,720 --> 00:39:27,840
today.
Here's the assertion I make.

643
00:39:28,120 --> 00:39:32,320
This is not new, OK?
They may not have called it

644
00:39:32,320 --> 00:39:35,800
Christian nationalism in Joseph
Smith's day, but that's what it

645
00:39:35,800 --> 00:39:39,840
was.
We're not Christian enough.

646
00:39:40,120 --> 00:39:45,280
We're not American enough.
And that because of those two

647
00:39:45,280 --> 00:39:50,120
things, we will not fit in with
Christian nationalism.

648
00:39:50,240 --> 00:39:55,960
And that's good.
That is a good thing because the

649
00:39:55,960 --> 00:39:59,360
Lord, through Joseph Smith, made
it abundantly clear.

650
00:40:00,480 --> 00:40:04,760
He was setting up his Kingdom.
He was worried about

651
00:40:04,760 --> 00:40:09,680
establishing his Zion, not
Mance.

652
00:40:11,520 --> 00:40:13,040
And I'm going to say something
else here.

653
00:40:13,640 --> 00:40:17,720
There's an interesting quote
from Joseph Smith about the

654
00:40:17,720 --> 00:40:22,520
destiny of Mormonism that I
think we should really listen to

655
00:40:22,840 --> 00:40:25,520
and hear the words really well.
OK.

656
00:40:27,040 --> 00:40:29,600
And it says it's familiar to
everyone.

657
00:40:29,600 --> 00:40:31,000
Everyone's going to remember
this.

658
00:40:31,320 --> 00:40:33,240
The standard of truth has been
erected.

659
00:40:33,680 --> 00:40:36,680
No one hollowed hand can stop
the work from progressing.

660
00:40:37,480 --> 00:40:42,400
Persecutions may rage, mobs may
combine, armies may assemble,

661
00:40:43,160 --> 00:40:46,720
colony may defame.
But the truth of God will go

662
00:40:46,720 --> 00:40:52,280
forth boldly, nobly and
independent, till it has

663
00:40:53,000 --> 00:40:58,240
penetrated every continent,
visited every climb, swept every

664
00:40:58,240 --> 00:41:02,520
country, sounded in every ear,
till the purposes of God shall

665
00:41:02,520 --> 00:41:06,360
be accomplished, and the great
Jehovah shall say, the work is

666
00:41:06,360 --> 00:41:13,160
done.
Your eyes should be on spreading

667
00:41:13,160 --> 00:41:18,400
the gospel to the world.
Now we need to put where we live

668
00:41:18,520 --> 00:41:24,120
1st in that, but none the less
our Commission is to the world,

669
00:41:24,640 --> 00:41:32,040
not just to 1 nation.
So even the stated end goal

670
00:41:32,040 --> 00:41:34,440
doesn't quite line up with
Christian nationalism.

671
00:41:35,120 --> 00:41:39,040
The other thing he says there,
it goes forth independently.

672
00:41:40,960 --> 00:41:43,680
If you're the LDS church, you
don't need to partner with the

673
00:41:43,680 --> 00:41:47,040
UN, you have all the resources
you need to do it yourself.

674
00:41:48,440 --> 00:41:52,800
If you are a Mormon of any
stripe, you don't need to join

675
00:41:52,800 --> 00:41:55,480
up with Christian nationalism.
That's not your goal.

676
00:41:55,720 --> 00:42:02,000
Your goal is to establish Zion
in your house, with your family,

677
00:42:02,480 --> 00:42:07,320
in your community, in your
neighborhood, wherever it is to

678
00:42:07,320 --> 00:42:10,880
push the ball a little farther
down the field towards the goal

679
00:42:10,880 --> 00:42:13,920
of Zion.
That is your responsibility.

680
00:42:15,480 --> 00:42:19,240
Now, I don't do this often, but
I feel like this is needed here.

681
00:42:20,120 --> 00:42:23,680
I warn you to stay away from
Christian nationalism.

682
00:42:24,400 --> 00:42:27,560
They will use you and it will
feel good at first.

683
00:42:30,160 --> 00:42:33,960
It will feel good to you because
you are teaming up with someone

684
00:42:33,960 --> 00:42:37,480
else against common foes.
But when they are done with

685
00:42:37,600 --> 00:42:41,920
that, we will be next.
We will be next.

686
00:42:41,920 --> 00:42:45,560
And I'm not talking in some
weird sort of, you know, I'm not

687
00:42:45,560 --> 00:42:48,960
talking physically even, I'm
talking about you will be

688
00:42:48,960 --> 00:42:52,120
relegated and thrown under the
bus and made to look silly.

689
00:42:52,320 --> 00:42:57,520
So let's not sign up to team up
with the guys that we know later

690
00:42:57,520 --> 00:42:58,960
are going to throw us under the
bus.

691
00:42:59,160 --> 00:43:03,560
We, as I've shown here from the
very beginning of Mormonism,

692
00:43:04,880 --> 00:43:07,960
they look at us as not being
Christian enough, and they look

693
00:43:07,960 --> 00:43:10,000
at us as not being American
enough.

694
00:43:12,240 --> 00:43:15,520
So let's just wear the moniker,
OK?

695
00:43:16,400 --> 00:43:17,920
We're not Christians.
We're Mormons.

696
00:43:18,760 --> 00:43:21,640
We follow the Nazarene.
We follow the Savior.

697
00:43:23,200 --> 00:43:24,880
Don't care what other people
call us.

698
00:43:25,240 --> 00:43:28,040
It's OK.
We're not supposed to be like

699
00:43:28,040 --> 00:43:30,960
everybody else.
And there are blessings to not

700
00:43:30,960 --> 00:43:33,680
being like everybody else.
We don't won't have everybody

701
00:43:33,680 --> 00:43:37,440
else's problems.
But if we choose to import the

702
00:43:37,440 --> 00:43:41,640
titles, if we choose to import
the behaviors, we will deal with

703
00:43:41,640 --> 00:43:43,080
the rest of the world's
problems.

704
00:43:44,160 --> 00:43:46,240
But that's not what our God
wants for us.

705
00:43:48,120 --> 00:43:52,080
OK, we'll be right back.
Justin Franklin's going to join

706
00:43:52,080 --> 00:43:54,080
us next, and we're going to
continue to break this down.

707
00:43:54,240 --> 00:43:57,080
We'll be right back.
I'm not breaking any news here.

708
00:43:57,280 --> 00:43:59,440
We live in spiritually perilous
times.

709
00:43:59,440 --> 00:44:02,200
It seems like danger is all
around us or our family

710
00:44:02,200 --> 00:44:05,320
spiritually all the time.
But our God hasn't left us

711
00:44:05,320 --> 00:44:08,120
defenseless.
We read in Ephesians chapter 6,

712
00:44:08,120 --> 00:44:11,560
verse 17 and take the helmet of
salvation and the sword of the

713
00:44:11,560 --> 00:44:13,160
Spirit, which is the word of
God.

714
00:44:13,520 --> 00:44:16,280
So in our spiritual battles, the
Scriptures are our sword.

715
00:44:16,680 --> 00:44:19,840
But just like real swords, not
all canons of scripture are made

716
00:44:19,840 --> 00:44:21,440
equal.
You need to make sure that

717
00:44:21,440 --> 00:44:23,400
you're entering the battle with
the right gear.

718
00:44:23,640 --> 00:44:25,920
With that thought in mind, Drew
Brownie and others have been

719
00:44:25,920 --> 00:44:29,440
working on a project to bring
you what is now being called the

720
00:44:29,440 --> 00:44:31,040
restored version of the
Scriptures.

721
00:44:31,840 --> 00:44:33,800
So what is the restored version
of the Scriptures?

722
00:44:34,000 --> 00:44:36,800
The restored version is the most
accurate, exhaustive,

723
00:44:37,040 --> 00:44:39,760
comfortable to read, triple
combination ever made.

724
00:44:40,040 --> 00:44:43,240
It was designed to honor Joseph
Smiths revelatory words and

725
00:44:43,240 --> 00:44:46,680
edits through clean and accurate
Joseph approved texts.

726
00:44:47,040 --> 00:44:49,920
The restored version contains
each book found in the modern

727
00:44:49,920 --> 00:44:53,720
LDS triple combination that is
the Book of Mormon, the Doctrine

728
00:44:53,720 --> 00:44:56,760
and Covenants, and the Pearl of
Great Price, except it has

729
00:44:56,760 --> 00:45:00,920
Joseph's original inspired text
and an easy to read format.

730
00:45:01,160 --> 00:45:03,760
It restores the Lectures on
Faith which were removed in

731
00:45:03,760 --> 00:45:07,440
1921.
It adds an additional 87

732
00:45:07,440 --> 00:45:11,360
uncanonized revelations of
Joseph Smith, as well as 33

733
00:45:11,360 --> 00:45:14,800
revelations received by Brigham
Young, John Taylor and Wilfred

734
00:45:14,800 --> 00:45:17,080
Woodruff and other members of
the Quorum of the 12.

735
00:45:17,600 --> 00:45:20,360
Each copy of the restored
version is built to last.

736
00:45:20,600 --> 00:45:24,400
These scriptures look good, feel
comfortable, and are bound to

737
00:45:24,400 --> 00:45:27,240
last.
The restored version uses cover

738
00:45:27,240 --> 00:45:30,920
material that is ideal for for
high quality books that is both

739
00:45:30,920 --> 00:45:34,560
hard wearing and soft and should
handle many years of use.

740
00:45:34,840 --> 00:45:37,680
It has beautiful gold and silver
gilded edges.

741
00:45:37,960 --> 00:45:41,800
It has sturdy, flexible binding
making it so the book may

742
00:45:41,800 --> 00:45:44,240
comfortably and safely be laid
on a desk.

743
00:45:44,720 --> 00:45:49,040
It has reliable paper that is
very thin yet sturdy and thick

744
00:45:49,040 --> 00:45:52,000
enough that it's hard to see
through, and comes with marking

745
00:45:52,000 --> 00:45:54,280
ribbons so that you never lose
your reading place.

746
00:45:54,680 --> 00:45:57,040
Each copy of the restored
version are built with the

747
00:45:57,040 --> 00:46:00,680
intent of lasting for years and
years, just like the LDS

748
00:46:00,680 --> 00:46:02,320
versions of the triple
combination.

749
00:46:03,320 --> 00:46:05,800
You might be asking yourself,
what are the benefits of owning

750
00:46:05,800 --> 00:46:08,200
your own copy of the restored
version of the scriptures?

751
00:46:08,480 --> 00:46:12,680
Well, how's this for starters #1
the spiritual significance.

752
00:46:12,680 --> 00:46:16,000
The restored version contains
every known revelation of Joseph

753
00:46:16,000 --> 00:46:18,880
Smith as well as those of his
first successors.

754
00:46:19,120 --> 00:46:22,480
The historical significance.
While the foundational text for

755
00:46:22,480 --> 00:46:25,440
the restored version is the
latest edition of each book of

756
00:46:25,440 --> 00:46:28,840
Scripture that Joseph approved,
the Restored Version carefully

757
00:46:28,840 --> 00:46:32,960
documents through footnotes,
italicized texts every

758
00:46:33,320 --> 00:46:37,160
definitive change made by Joseph
Oregon his editing committee,

759
00:46:37,160 --> 00:46:39,760
making the Restored version a
truly original set of

760
00:46:39,760 --> 00:46:43,160
Scriptures.
Formatting Significance The

761
00:46:43,160 --> 00:46:46,520
restored version contains no
columns, no cumbersome Croft

762
00:46:46,520 --> 00:46:50,600
references, and no paragraph
breaks at every verse just like

763
00:46:50,600 --> 00:46:53,760
the original, and has been
improved with many verse numbers

764
00:46:53,760 --> 00:46:57,200
in the paragraphs, which provide
a smooth, seamless reading

765
00:46:57,200 --> 00:47:00,960
experience that makes it easy to
lose track of time while reading

766
00:47:00,960 --> 00:47:04,720
and makes it easier to see the
large, larger narrative within

767
00:47:04,720 --> 00:47:08,160
the scriptures.
It is also the first original

768
00:47:08,160 --> 00:47:11,760
editions published that can be
used with study guides, since

769
00:47:11,760 --> 00:47:14,800
almost all of the other
originals don't have verses in

770
00:47:14,800 --> 00:47:17,040
it.
The restored version offers a

771
00:47:17,040 --> 00:47:20,320
pure offers pure doctrine and
the most historically

772
00:47:20,320 --> 00:47:23,720
transparent Mormon triple
combination ever made with a

773
00:47:23,720 --> 00:47:27,320
modern format that provides for
a smooth, seamless and spiritual

774
00:47:27,320 --> 00:47:30,080
read.
Now to get your copy today, just

775
00:47:30,080 --> 00:47:34,600
go to www.restoredscriptures.com
or click the link in this

776
00:47:34,600 --> 00:47:37,080
episode show notes.
Again, that is

777
00:47:37,080 --> 00:47:41,200
www.restoredscriptures.com or
click the link in this episode,

778
00:47:41,200 --> 00:47:44,520
show notes and order your copy
today and arm you and your

779
00:47:44,520 --> 00:47:47,240
family with the word of God.
Now let's get back to our

780
00:47:47,240 --> 00:47:50,480
conversation.
Well, Justin, I'm, I'm glad

781
00:47:50,480 --> 00:47:53,680
you're here to help because that
was that was some rough stuff to

782
00:47:53,680 --> 00:47:56,920
have to go through.
I did not relish that at all.

783
00:47:56,920 --> 00:48:00,960
Like, and I was so surprised as
I started peeling back the

784
00:48:00,960 --> 00:48:04,800
layers on it, right?
It's like every bad idea you

785
00:48:04,800 --> 00:48:08,600
could get, like Smith tried to
institute, right?

786
00:48:08,600 --> 00:48:12,040
That that LG or whatever his
name was, Smith, he, he, he

787
00:48:12,040 --> 00:48:14,120
really went for bad ideas.
I got to give him credit.

788
00:48:14,120 --> 00:48:17,920
He did not go halfway with that.
Right, right.

789
00:48:18,000 --> 00:48:20,600
And I mean, that was a lot of
information all at once.

790
00:48:21,680 --> 00:48:25,760
And so I'm thinking maybe here
we could kind of dig into some

791
00:48:25,760 --> 00:48:28,080
of this in, in kind of more
detail and just kind of break it

792
00:48:28,080 --> 00:48:31,960
down and really get into the
whys and all that, right?

793
00:48:31,960 --> 00:48:37,560
Like there's definitely a really
shady history here, but I kind

794
00:48:37,560 --> 00:48:39,440
of I'm interested in taking a
little bit further back than

795
00:48:39,440 --> 00:48:43,240
that.
So The thing is, has Christian

796
00:48:43,240 --> 00:48:49,760
nationalism ever been tried
before, right.

797
00:48:49,880 --> 00:48:53,480
And so there's a, there's
different ways of looking at,

798
00:48:53,520 --> 00:48:57,880
at, at his history.
A lot of times we live in a very

799
00:48:57,880 --> 00:49:00,600
secular world and we just look
at history as a bunch of facts.

800
00:49:00,600 --> 00:49:02,600
You know, this happened On this
date, this happened on that

801
00:49:02,600 --> 00:49:05,640
date.
And it's just a diary of

802
00:49:05,640 --> 00:49:09,640
mankind.
But anciently and scripturally,

803
00:49:09,640 --> 00:49:14,160
right, Keeping histories is a
theologic process.

804
00:49:14,240 --> 00:49:19,960
This is not something to be
understood as man's endeavors

805
00:49:20,120 --> 00:49:21,840
and, and you know, and man's
events.

806
00:49:21,840 --> 00:49:26,600
But no, this is God is sovereign
and these are the acts of of

807
00:49:26,800 --> 00:49:29,920
God's relationship with man.
And we look at history and see

808
00:49:29,920 --> 00:49:34,840
how that relationship works.
So with a, with kind of more of

809
00:49:34,840 --> 00:49:39,040
a theological look at history,
right, we can see the, the real

810
00:49:39,040 --> 00:49:42,960
rise of Christian nationalism
really starts with Christianity

811
00:49:43,560 --> 00:49:49,680
by and large, not early
Christianity where Christianity

812
00:49:49,680 --> 00:49:53,280
was a, was like a small cult of,
of this Jewish religion in this

813
00:49:53,280 --> 00:49:57,640
backwater nation of Israel and,
and was like illegal, right.

814
00:50:00,440 --> 00:50:05,160
But once we get to this idea of
the Holy Roman Empire, you know,

815
00:50:05,160 --> 00:50:08,120
Christianity's made legal with
like Constantine and then and

816
00:50:08,400 --> 00:50:10,800
then later on it, it becomes the
state religion.

817
00:50:11,400 --> 00:50:15,160
And we see Christianity is taken
to all the world, just like the

818
00:50:15,160 --> 00:50:18,520
Great Commission, you know,
says, says it should.

819
00:50:18,960 --> 00:50:22,760
Most of the civilized world at
this point, you know, in the

820
00:50:22,760 --> 00:50:25,600
West at least, it's these are,
these are Christian nations.

821
00:50:26,400 --> 00:50:30,800
But is that really Christianity?
Because if you, if you look at

822
00:50:31,320 --> 00:50:35,680
the, the more holy Roman Empire
age of Christianity, it looks

823
00:50:35,680 --> 00:50:38,360
very different from what we see
today, right?

824
00:50:38,360 --> 00:50:42,120
You got to understand most of
the Christians in those days

825
00:50:42,120 --> 00:50:45,080
were converts through through
government force.

826
00:50:46,200 --> 00:50:49,400
They were worshipping Zeus or
they're worshipping Jupiter.

827
00:50:49,760 --> 00:50:52,440
And then all of a sudden, you
know, the peasants are told, oh,

828
00:50:52,440 --> 00:50:55,080
you're Christians now and and
you worship Christ.

829
00:50:58,080 --> 00:51:00,800
OK.
It makes it makes the conversion

830
00:51:00,800 --> 00:51:05,840
process a lot quicker, right?
Like it's way more.

831
00:51:06,280 --> 00:51:08,240
It's, it's way quicker if you
can do it that way.

832
00:51:08,440 --> 00:51:12,360
I'm just saying but problematic
because that whole turning your

833
00:51:12,360 --> 00:51:15,000
heart towards Jesus thing that
doesn't work out so well.

834
00:51:15,000 --> 00:51:18,440
Usually at at the barrel of a
gun or the point of sword.

835
00:51:19,920 --> 00:51:21,480
Yeah, exactly.
And and don't get me wrong

836
00:51:21,480 --> 00:51:24,080
there, there are good things
happening with the Holy Roman

837
00:51:24,080 --> 00:51:25,920
Empire in this early Christian
churches.

838
00:51:25,920 --> 00:51:29,840
You know that that that
movement, it is increasing

839
00:51:29,840 --> 00:51:32,360
things like education and
literacy over time.

840
00:51:32,600 --> 00:51:35,240
There's more and more educated
people, There's more and more

841
00:51:35,240 --> 00:51:39,520
people thinking the, the
priestly class, you know, it's

842
00:51:39,520 --> 00:51:44,200
still kind of an elite class,
but it's encouraging education

843
00:51:44,320 --> 00:51:46,640
and, and study for for the
elites, right?

844
00:51:46,640 --> 00:51:48,760
But for the peasants, you know,
you just do what you're told.

845
00:51:48,800 --> 00:51:51,720
You know, you go to mass, you
sit down, they speak to you in a

846
00:51:51,720 --> 00:51:54,040
language you understand, you go
home and you know, that's,

847
00:51:54,120 --> 00:51:58,840
that's being a Christian.
And obviously there's also a lot

848
00:51:58,840 --> 00:52:02,080
of corruptions of the original
doctrine that we understand that

849
00:52:02,080 --> 00:52:07,680
as Mormons really well, right?
But even the Protestants and and

850
00:52:07,800 --> 00:52:10,840
the majority of Christianity in
America today understands that

851
00:52:10,840 --> 00:52:13,280
there were some serious problems
and.

852
00:52:13,560 --> 00:52:15,160
Can I ask you a question real
quick?

853
00:52:15,400 --> 00:52:17,680
Yeah.
You think that this is an

854
00:52:17,680 --> 00:52:20,760
outgrowth, not that it makes it
correct.

855
00:52:20,760 --> 00:52:22,800
I'm not saying that, but I'm
always curious about where

856
00:52:22,800 --> 00:52:25,600
things originate, right.
Do you think that this is like

857
00:52:25,600 --> 00:52:29,160
an outgrowth of an early
yearning for Zion that they're

858
00:52:29,160 --> 00:52:31,560
trying to to get done, so to
speak?

859
00:52:31,560 --> 00:52:34,840
Or do you think that this is way
more about politics than it is

860
00:52:35,240 --> 00:52:40,120
God's earthly Kingdom?
Yeah, You know, at this point I

861
00:52:40,120 --> 00:52:42,040
would say it's way more
political.

862
00:52:42,800 --> 00:52:45,960
I, there is a trace of that
yearning for Zion, I think in

863
00:52:45,960 --> 00:52:51,880
this concept of this, this idea
of a Christian nation, right,

864
00:52:51,880 --> 00:52:54,960
The Holy Roman Empire every, you
know, you have the, the Catholic

865
00:52:54,960 --> 00:52:57,080
Church and they're basically
running all of the Western

866
00:52:57,080 --> 00:53:03,640
governments.
And I, I for the average person

867
00:53:03,640 --> 00:53:06,360
living in that world at that
time, what is religion?

868
00:53:06,360 --> 00:53:08,200
It's politics.
And that's the thing we don't

869
00:53:08,200 --> 00:53:09,840
realize.
It's not even just Christian

870
00:53:09,840 --> 00:53:11,960
nationalism.
The the history of the entire

871
00:53:11,960 --> 00:53:17,240
world has pretty much been Theo
nationalism of some kind.

872
00:53:18,320 --> 00:53:20,400
Right.
Right, Whether it you're in

873
00:53:20,400 --> 00:53:25,240
Greece, you're in, you're in
Persia, wherever you are in the

874
00:53:25,240 --> 00:53:27,080
world, right?
It's, it's, there's an

875
00:53:27,080 --> 00:53:30,880
understanding that if you're in
a, you're in a nation, that

876
00:53:30,880 --> 00:53:34,520
nation is going to have a
religious, a state religion,

877
00:53:35,800 --> 00:53:39,520
whether it's, you know,
Christianity or, or some form

878
00:53:39,520 --> 00:53:45,720
of, of what we call paganism.
And you are by coercion of

879
00:53:45,720 --> 00:53:51,320
government required to adhere to
the, the precepts, the laws, the

880
00:53:51,320 --> 00:53:54,920
standards, whatever, you know of
that religion, which was really

881
00:53:55,040 --> 00:53:58,000
a big problem with some of the
things with early trade, even

882
00:53:58,000 --> 00:53:59,960
because these ancient
civilizations, it's, it's kind

883
00:53:59,960 --> 00:54:03,360
of, you know, if you're, if
you're from Babylon and you're

884
00:54:03,360 --> 00:54:08,400
heading down to Syria or
something, if you know different

885
00:54:08,400 --> 00:54:10,040
state religion, you don't have
rights.

886
00:54:10,040 --> 00:54:13,960
You're not a, you don't get to
go into, into Babylon as a, as

887
00:54:14,000 --> 00:54:17,000
a, as a sovereign citizen with
equal rights under the law.

888
00:54:17,480 --> 00:54:19,880
You're there as a stranger.
And why?

889
00:54:20,240 --> 00:54:25,560
Because of religion, if you want
to have respect in that state,

890
00:54:25,560 --> 00:54:28,480
in that government, you have to
be a member of that religion.

891
00:54:28,960 --> 00:54:33,960
That is basically religion is
where your your rights come from

892
00:54:33,960 --> 00:54:37,640
or what literally you can call
some of the really early

893
00:54:37,640 --> 00:54:41,680
barbaric times.
And so even before Christianity,

894
00:54:41,680 --> 00:54:44,360
it's that has, has been the
norm.

895
00:54:44,400 --> 00:54:49,560
This, this idea of, you know,
governments rule through a form

896
00:54:49,560 --> 00:54:51,480
of, of, of the state religion in
a sense.

897
00:54:51,640 --> 00:54:54,640
And everybody in that on, if
you're on that land, then you

898
00:54:54,640 --> 00:54:58,280
are required to be part of that
religion or you're kind of a

899
00:54:58,280 --> 00:55:01,000
stranger and generally you're
not going to be treated very

900
00:55:01,000 --> 00:55:03,400
well.
Israel was really the exception

901
00:55:03,760 --> 00:55:10,440
in that right with more laws and
things demanding that the that

902
00:55:10,440 --> 00:55:14,160
the Israelites have to treat the
strangers with under the same

903
00:55:14,160 --> 00:55:16,160
kind of standards that that
they're living under.

904
00:55:17,760 --> 00:55:22,520
It is interesting because that
is a that is a, a political

905
00:55:22,520 --> 00:55:26,440
development, right?
We and again, a Theo political

906
00:55:26,440 --> 00:55:29,440
development, but a a development
nonetheless.

907
00:55:29,440 --> 00:55:33,400
That does set Israel off or
apart from a lot of other

908
00:55:33,400 --> 00:55:36,720
places, right?
I mean, there, there were a

909
00:55:36,720 --> 00:55:39,200
couple of them because I went
back and read some stuff and I

910
00:55:39,200 --> 00:55:42,640
think it was, I think it was
Babylon, where even if you were

911
00:55:42,640 --> 00:55:45,960
just visiting, right, you were
just like, Hey, I just want to

912
00:55:46,320 --> 00:55:48,920
cross your desert here and get
to the other place.

913
00:55:49,360 --> 00:55:53,960
You kind of had to make a token
offering to ball or whoever the

914
00:55:53,960 --> 00:55:59,320
God is there, right?
It wasn't it wasn't just, hey,

915
00:55:59,320 --> 00:56:02,040
I'm just traveling through here.
So Israel's a little different

916
00:56:02,040 --> 00:56:03,760
than that.
And I did find that rather

917
00:56:03,760 --> 00:56:05,560
interesting.
Right.

918
00:56:05,560 --> 00:56:08,960
And I think that's again, this,
what I see in history, and this

919
00:56:08,960 --> 00:56:12,040
is, this is a little different
maybe than than typical, but I

920
00:56:12,040 --> 00:56:16,520
view history progressively
because I see God's relationship

921
00:56:16,520 --> 00:56:23,160
with man becoming better and
better leading, culminating

922
00:56:23,160 --> 00:56:27,320
with, with, with Christ, right,
and, and his ministry and the

923
00:56:27,320 --> 00:56:31,640
atonement and all of that.
And, but then, you know, we have

924
00:56:31,640 --> 00:56:35,520
the great apostasy as, as it's
described in the Book of Mormon.

925
00:56:36,120 --> 00:56:39,560
And there's a bit of a, of a
reset we get, we, there's that

926
00:56:39,560 --> 00:56:43,360
culmination of, of the triumph
of, of Christ and, and

927
00:56:43,400 --> 00:56:47,440
redemption of mankind.
But then things almost, it

928
00:56:47,440 --> 00:56:49,000
almost looks like Satan's going
to win.

929
00:56:49,120 --> 00:56:52,080
He's going to wipe Christianity
out or he's just corrupted it so

930
00:56:52,080 --> 00:56:55,360
bad.
And again, like when you've got

931
00:56:55,360 --> 00:56:59,480
a people that are used to living
under a state religion, right,

932
00:57:01,280 --> 00:57:02,640
all of a sudden now you're
Christian.

933
00:57:02,800 --> 00:57:07,280
Well, are you Christian or are
you just going to obey the

934
00:57:07,280 --> 00:57:09,280
government because you don't
want to get your head shot?

935
00:57:09,280 --> 00:57:12,840
Tough.
Much like the Inquisitions or

936
00:57:12,840 --> 00:57:17,080
something like that.
Right, So, but so there, so

937
00:57:17,080 --> 00:57:20,360
there's some good though with
the Catholic Empire too, right.

938
00:57:20,360 --> 00:57:23,720
And this Christianity in, in
that time is advancing.

939
00:57:24,320 --> 00:57:26,520
There's a, there's a lot of
myths about like the, the dark

940
00:57:26,520 --> 00:57:32,600
ages being like, there's a, of
a, like mankind descends into a,

941
00:57:32,600 --> 00:57:37,040
a, a pit of darkness.
And it's, I don't think that's

942
00:57:37,040 --> 00:57:41,280
actually very accurate.
I, I think that most of history

943
00:57:41,280 --> 00:57:46,200
mankind is kind of the dark ages
and where we start seeing the

944
00:57:46,200 --> 00:57:49,880
light at the end of that tunnel
is, is through this kind of

945
00:57:49,880 --> 00:57:54,120
period of time.
And with that education, you

946
00:57:54,120 --> 00:57:59,520
start having the, you next have
the Protestant movement and I'd

947
00:57:59,520 --> 00:58:01,240
see this.
I, I mean, I, I'm looking at

948
00:58:01,240 --> 00:58:05,200
history like a giant chess board
and God's moving these like,

949
00:58:05,240 --> 00:58:07,400
here's the night, he's jumping
this way, he's jumping that way,

950
00:58:07,400 --> 00:58:09,440
The board's moving.
It's dynamic.

951
00:58:09,440 --> 00:58:12,480
You might lose a piece here, but
that changed.

952
00:58:12,600 --> 00:58:15,200
That changes the layout of the
board, and now you can make a

953
00:58:15,200 --> 00:58:16,760
move here.
And that just changes the

954
00:58:16,760 --> 00:58:21,240
context.
And so you have a Christian

955
00:58:21,240 --> 00:58:22,960
national state under
Catholicism.

956
00:58:22,960 --> 00:58:27,960
And the Protestants hate it
because they have learned to

957
00:58:28,040 --> 00:58:31,720
study this stuff themselves.
They have become, you know, home

958
00:58:31,720 --> 00:58:36,600
theologians, the, the layman is
learning the scriptures and

959
00:58:36,600 --> 00:58:39,440
studying and, and learning and
because of literacies going up,

960
00:58:39,440 --> 00:58:41,280
all that kind of stuff.
And some of them are like, hey,

961
00:58:42,120 --> 00:58:45,000
we think you got it wrong.
We think you got some of this

962
00:58:45,000 --> 00:58:50,080
stuff wrong.
Well, you don't and.

963
00:58:50,080 --> 00:58:52,560
That point you're not just,
you're not just irritating your

964
00:58:52,560 --> 00:58:55,520
priest right now, you're
irritating your civil

965
00:58:55,520 --> 00:58:58,280
magistrate, which is a different
matter altogether.

966
00:58:58,600 --> 00:59:01,880
Well, exactly right.
In a Christian national state,

967
00:59:02,040 --> 00:59:05,560
nationalist state, you don't
tell the state that it's got the

968
00:59:05,560 --> 00:59:08,600
Christianity part wrong or they
will kill you, right?

969
00:59:10,400 --> 00:59:11,960
And that's literally what
happens, right?

970
00:59:11,960 --> 00:59:14,640
We've got these bloody wars
between the, the Protestants and

971
00:59:14,640 --> 00:59:18,600
the, and the Papists.
And you know, it's not a, it's

972
00:59:18,600 --> 00:59:20,400
not a good time in history,
right?

973
00:59:20,480 --> 00:59:25,320
But there's an attempt at
getting back to this original

974
00:59:25,320 --> 00:59:29,800
Christianity, to getting back to
the correct doctrines, removing

975
00:59:29,800 --> 00:59:33,200
the corruptions.
And so the Protestant

976
00:59:33,200 --> 00:59:37,360
Reformation, while kind of a
reaction to the Catholic Empire,

977
00:59:39,800 --> 00:59:42,200
there's good and bad with that
movement, right?

978
00:59:42,720 --> 00:59:46,200
Some of the bad that we can all
agree on, right, is they, the

979
00:59:46,200 --> 00:59:48,400
Protestants abandoned this
concept of the priesthood.

980
00:59:50,080 --> 00:59:53,920
It's just kind of gone.
You know, ordinances kind of

981
00:59:53,920 --> 00:59:55,440
disappear.
You know, some of them hold to

982
00:59:55,440 --> 00:59:59,360
baptism still.
But over time, you know, there's

983
00:59:59,360 --> 01:00:06,320
a less of an emphasis on things
like receiving communion, having

984
01:00:06,640 --> 01:00:09,880
the the liturgy, like, you know,
the Catholic version of like,

985
01:00:09,880 --> 01:00:11,720
you know, the endowment and
things like that.

986
01:00:12,480 --> 01:00:15,480
And those get thrown out the
window with Protestantism.

987
01:00:18,320 --> 01:00:20,680
You know, that's fascinating.
That's fascinating because it

988
01:00:20,680 --> 01:00:22,880
feels like an overcorrection,
right?

989
01:00:23,440 --> 01:00:25,960
Right, because.
Exactly the the Protestants, I,

990
01:00:26,000 --> 01:00:28,640
I do believe we're on to
something, but the problem is,

991
01:00:29,000 --> 01:00:31,800
is that they they overcorrect,
right.

992
01:00:32,120 --> 01:00:35,240
And so rather than saying, you
know what, this idea of

993
01:00:35,240 --> 01:00:38,960
priesthood, it didn't work out
so well this time with the

994
01:00:38,960 --> 01:00:40,880
Catholic Church, but I think
there's something here, they

995
01:00:40,880 --> 01:00:43,240
just say, we'll just toss it out
all out now.

996
01:00:43,760 --> 01:00:46,640
Just toss it all out now.
We, we all have the priesthood

997
01:00:46,640 --> 01:00:49,560
of all believers, right?
Is, is one of those things.

998
01:00:49,920 --> 01:00:54,240
And, and it seems to be an
overcorrection to this, to this

999
01:00:54,240 --> 01:00:55,640
thing, right?
So they're, they're very

1000
01:00:55,640 --> 01:01:00,360
theologically right, so to
speak, when with the Holy Roman

1001
01:01:00,360 --> 01:01:02,400
Empire.
And then by the time you get to

1002
01:01:02,400 --> 01:01:07,000
Protestantism it, it's almost
like a knee jerk reaction of,

1003
01:01:07,000 --> 01:01:08,720
well, that's what the Catholics
were doing.

1004
01:01:08,720 --> 01:01:11,280
So that can't be right, So.
That's got.

1005
01:01:11,400 --> 01:01:13,440
To be wrong, it's got to be
wrong, right?

1006
01:01:13,680 --> 01:01:16,480
There's no nuance there to say,
well, maybe they had something

1007
01:01:17,040 --> 01:01:21,040
and it it that kind of really
explains why there was a need

1008
01:01:21,040 --> 01:01:24,200
for a restoration.
Right, but you see that kind of

1009
01:01:24,200 --> 01:01:26,800
reaction even today, you see
that reactionism right as people

1010
01:01:26,800 --> 01:01:30,240
leave the LDS church.
Well, then it all, you know, so

1011
01:01:30,240 --> 01:01:33,320
and so some prophet's brother
does something wrong and this

1012
01:01:33,320 --> 01:01:37,000
can't be true.
But then they they throw

1013
01:01:37,000 --> 01:01:39,960
everything out for sure as an
overreaction.

1014
01:01:39,960 --> 01:01:42,880
Not and not everybody does, but
that that that is a human

1015
01:01:42,880 --> 01:01:46,200
tendency.
When we see something wrong, we

1016
01:01:46,200 --> 01:01:50,160
want to we want to not just make
it better, but make it so better

1017
01:01:50,160 --> 01:01:51,960
at that wrong will never happen
again.

1018
01:01:54,120 --> 01:01:55,160
We're going to do more than
we're.

1019
01:01:55,880 --> 01:01:57,560
Going to discover new.
Problems.

1020
01:01:58,280 --> 01:02:02,400
Yes, yes, new problems.
And that's the thing even the

1021
01:02:02,400 --> 01:02:06,920
Protestants now they're a thing
and you know, there's there's

1022
01:02:06,920 --> 01:02:09,080
wars, there's conflict, but it
but they're a thing.

1023
01:02:09,080 --> 01:02:13,600
They're staying.
They're not going anywhere and.

1024
01:02:13,600 --> 01:02:16,160
Illustrate real quick how deep
that hatred runs.

1025
01:02:16,760 --> 01:02:21,560
I'm a kid in the 80s and if I'm
not mistaken in Ireland they're

1026
01:02:21,560 --> 01:02:25,440
still going blow for blow
between the the the IRA and.

1027
01:02:25,600 --> 01:02:27,440
The you know.
The the Catholic believers,

1028
01:02:27,440 --> 01:02:29,440
right?
Like it's still going on clear

1029
01:02:29,440 --> 01:02:32,640
into the 1980s.
Those feuds do not end quickly.

1030
01:02:33,000 --> 01:02:35,760
Like when that when that stuff
comes down, it's a horror show

1031
01:02:35,760 --> 01:02:39,560
for a while, the 100 years War
and then in Ireland it goes a

1032
01:02:39,560 --> 01:02:43,280
lot longer.
Yes, goes a lot longer.

1033
01:02:43,680 --> 01:02:46,240
And so, you know, and here's
here's just an example.

1034
01:02:46,240 --> 01:02:50,000
It wasn't even just the Papists
versus the Protestants, right?

1035
01:02:50,000 --> 01:02:54,120
And, and, and we have a very
famous case in, in Geneva,

1036
01:02:55,080 --> 01:02:58,440
Switzerland, where Calvin, John
Calvin, one of the early

1037
01:02:58,440 --> 01:03:01,880
Protestants fathers sets up
shop, right?

1038
01:03:01,880 --> 01:03:07,520
And he kind of becomes the, the,
he's kind of the one man of, of,

1039
01:03:08,360 --> 01:03:14,640
of, of Protestant Geneva.
And there was another Protestant

1040
01:03:14,640 --> 01:03:18,400
guy named Michael Cervetis.
I think that's how you, I might,

1041
01:03:18,480 --> 01:03:19,600
I might have that pronunciation
wrong.

1042
01:03:19,600 --> 01:03:20,960
But this guy was also a
Protestant.

1043
01:03:20,960 --> 01:03:22,880
He wasn't a papist.
He's also a Protestant.

1044
01:03:23,360 --> 01:03:28,040
He feels in alignment with other
Protestantism ideas, but he's

1045
01:03:28,160 --> 01:03:32,520
maybe a little bit more extreme
than the more mainstream, well

1046
01:03:32,520 --> 01:03:34,080
known Protestants would have
liked.

1047
01:03:34,480 --> 01:03:38,160
In fact, he had two really
controversial views, really

1048
01:03:38,160 --> 01:03:40,920
controversial views.
One of them was he was against

1049
01:03:41,000 --> 01:03:47,480
infant baptism.
Yeah, interesting, huh.

1050
01:03:47,560 --> 01:03:49,880
No, I mean, he's, he had
different reasons for that than

1051
01:03:49,880 --> 01:03:53,640
than than Mormons do.
But he was more worried about

1052
01:03:53,640 --> 01:03:58,840
polluting the church with with
infants baptized into it who

1053
01:03:58,840 --> 01:04:01,040
didn't really earn their way in.
Maybe right.

1054
01:04:01,080 --> 01:04:04,320
I mean, it's a little different,
but nonetheless, he had issue

1055
01:04:04,320 --> 01:04:07,040
with infant baptism.
The other doctrine he had

1056
01:04:07,040 --> 01:04:08,720
issues.
He had a different view on the

1057
01:04:08,720 --> 01:04:13,080
Trinity.
He was not transparent.

1058
01:04:13,240 --> 01:04:15,600
I'm not actually sure.
I tried to, I tried to do a

1059
01:04:15,600 --> 01:04:17,880
little bit of research on I
probably need to get a book and

1060
01:04:17,880 --> 01:04:21,280
really, you know, dig in, which
I'm actually interested in

1061
01:04:21,280 --> 01:04:23,720
doing, but I just wasn't able to
do quick research and figure

1062
01:04:23,720 --> 01:04:26,760
that one out.
But nonetheless, those are two

1063
01:04:26,800 --> 01:04:29,960
interesting things, right?
So Michael Cervet is he goes to

1064
01:04:29,960 --> 01:04:34,760
Geneva and he and he listens to
Calvin preach and I don't know

1065
01:04:34,760 --> 01:04:39,000
what his motivations were.
Maybe he wanted to stir stuff

1066
01:04:39,000 --> 01:04:40,080
up.
Maybe he just wanted to have a

1067
01:04:40,080 --> 01:04:42,600
friendly talk.
Regardless, immediately after

1068
01:04:42,600 --> 01:04:47,320
Calvin servant is finished, the
government grabs him and they're

1069
01:04:47,320 --> 01:04:51,440
charging him with blasphemy.
You know, the guy just blows

1070
01:04:51,440 --> 01:04:54,080
into town, you know, checks out
church in this area.

1071
01:04:54,080 --> 01:04:59,080
And then and he's getting
arrested and there's a bit of a

1072
01:04:59,080 --> 01:05:05,320
controversy over whether Calvin
is the one who is the sort of

1073
01:05:05,320 --> 01:05:10,280
judge, jury executioner here
because what the civil

1074
01:05:10,280 --> 01:05:14,200
magistrate decides is he's
guilty of of blasphemy and he's

1075
01:05:14,200 --> 01:05:21,040
to be burned at the stake.
And you know, Calvin in his

1076
01:05:21,040 --> 01:05:25,240
defense thought it wasn't that
bad to to warrant him being

1077
01:05:25,240 --> 01:05:27,240
burned at the stake.
You know, in this letter he

1078
01:05:27,240 --> 01:05:29,800
wrote, he just thought he should
be beheaded.

1079
01:05:32,400 --> 01:05:36,760
So so there's.
This means that to.

1080
01:05:36,760 --> 01:05:40,120
Calvin's point, that does sound
a little bit more humane, right?

1081
01:05:40,120 --> 01:05:43,040
I'm not, I'm not saying it
doesn't sound more humane, but

1082
01:05:43,040 --> 01:05:46,320
I'm kind of a fan of, I don't
know, different ideas and not

1083
01:05:46,320 --> 01:05:48,200
killing each other.
I'm old fashioned that way.

1084
01:05:48,200 --> 01:05:51,040
I'm I'm down for that.
Right, right.

1085
01:05:51,040 --> 01:05:54,960
But so again, even in
Protestantism we still have a

1086
01:05:54,960 --> 01:05:57,400
form of Christian nationalism.
Geneva is a Christian

1087
01:05:57,400 --> 01:06:01,840
nationalist town under Calvin.
And that's the kind of things

1088
01:06:01,840 --> 01:06:04,640
you see happening in, in, in
Christian nationalist towns.

1089
01:06:05,920 --> 01:06:11,920
And it's important, important to
point out too the you know, you

1090
01:06:11,920 --> 01:06:17,040
just did that podcast on the,
the, the, the pilgrims and the

1091
01:06:17,360 --> 01:06:21,360
Puritans, right?
And these guys are Calvinist in

1092
01:06:21,360 --> 01:06:27,600
Theo in theology, right?
So there's some obviously some

1093
01:06:27,600 --> 01:06:29,520
serious issues with going on
there, right?

1094
01:06:29,520 --> 01:06:34,360
And this is exactly the whole
reason why, again, as as in that

1095
01:06:34,360 --> 01:06:38,640
in your last podcast, as we just
saw, This is why the Puritans

1096
01:06:38,640 --> 01:06:42,920
and the Separatists wanted to
get out of England, because

1097
01:06:42,920 --> 01:06:46,440
England is a Christian national
town, a Protestant Christian

1098
01:06:46,440 --> 01:06:50,960
national state government, but
they don't have rights there

1099
01:06:50,960 --> 01:06:55,800
because they worship the wrong
Christian God in some way.

1100
01:06:55,800 --> 01:06:59,840
I mean, you know.
Let's just say it because it's

1101
01:06:59,840 --> 01:07:02,560
used on us all the time.
The wrong Jesus.

1102
01:07:02,960 --> 01:07:05,560
Right the wrong, Jesus.
Yeah, that's what we hear and

1103
01:07:05,560 --> 01:07:07,320
and that's what we.
Hear the wrong Christian?

1104
01:07:07,320 --> 01:07:11,040
Nationalists right is that you
Mormons, you got a different

1105
01:07:11,040 --> 01:07:14,120
Jesus and look, I'm going to say
something now kind of spicy.

1106
01:07:14,240 --> 01:07:16,680
They're not wrong they're not
wrong.

1107
01:07:17,200 --> 01:07:20,400
Our Jesus is a lot different
than how they look at Jesus,

1108
01:07:20,560 --> 01:07:24,880
right, right.
And I, I think that needs

1109
01:07:24,880 --> 01:07:28,040
bearing out, right?
And, and look, I'm not saying we

1110
01:07:28,040 --> 01:07:31,880
can't work with Christians.
I'm just saying that this whole

1111
01:07:31,880 --> 01:07:35,840
idea of Christian nationalism,
chances are when they're done

1112
01:07:35,840 --> 01:07:38,720
beating everybody else up, we're
next, right?

1113
01:07:38,720 --> 01:07:39,080
Yeah.
Oh yeah.

1114
01:07:39,800 --> 01:07:41,640
And we're going to and we're
going to get there.

1115
01:07:41,640 --> 01:07:44,360
We're going to, we're going to
see exactly why we are next,

1116
01:07:44,360 --> 01:07:46,720
right?
I've got some videos to share.

1117
01:07:46,720 --> 01:07:49,480
Actually, I thought we'd look at
some of the Christian nationals

1118
01:07:49,480 --> 01:07:51,720
from their own, from their own
void, but just finishing up this

1119
01:07:51,720 --> 01:07:54,920
history stuff, right?
So the Puritans are like, oh,

1120
01:07:54,960 --> 01:07:56,720
right, this isn't working for
us.

1121
01:07:56,720 --> 01:08:01,640
We want to go somewhere brand
new, start fresh clean slate

1122
01:08:01,720 --> 01:08:05,840
with their brand of again,
though, with their brand of

1123
01:08:05,840 --> 01:08:10,280
Christian nationalism.
Now there's something beautiful

1124
01:08:10,320 --> 01:08:16,960
in Calvin theology, which is
this idea of a covenant nation.

1125
01:08:17,040 --> 01:08:19,000
You know, they look at the Old
Testament and they, and they

1126
01:08:19,000 --> 01:08:21,960
take that seriously, this idea
that God has covenants with

1127
01:08:21,960 --> 01:08:26,040
nations.
And that was this idea of a, of

1128
01:08:26,160 --> 01:08:29,680
a, a covenant people living in a
covenant nation under covenant

1129
01:08:29,680 --> 01:08:32,319
with God.
They had this beautiful vision

1130
01:08:33,359 --> 01:08:37,960
of a Christian utopia as a kind
of Zion, right?

1131
01:08:38,680 --> 01:08:42,880
And so they they go to America
with and they bring that vision

1132
01:08:42,880 --> 01:08:47,479
with them.
And but again, even in America,

1133
01:08:47,560 --> 01:08:50,640
this is still Christian
nationalism at this point.

1134
01:08:52,600 --> 01:08:56,439
There's some interesting stuff
going on here.

1135
01:08:56,439 --> 01:08:59,720
You have, well, here's just
here's some examples of some of

1136
01:08:59,720 --> 01:09:01,000
the laws that I was able to look
up.

1137
01:09:01,000 --> 01:09:05,520
OK, in, in Virginia, see,
General Thomas Gates began his

1138
01:09:05,520 --> 01:09:09,120
colonial laws with a call to
men's duty, to God, to whom men

1139
01:09:09,120 --> 01:09:12,920
owe highest and supreme duty.
He required all captains and

1140
01:09:12,920 --> 01:09:14,920
officers to have morning and
evening prayer.

1141
01:09:16,240 --> 01:09:18,720
That's interesting being
legally, you know, I mean, I, I

1142
01:09:18,720 --> 01:09:20,960
think it's good to have money
and eating prayer.

1143
01:09:20,960 --> 01:09:23,920
But like, you know, as a legal
requirement, that's kind of

1144
01:09:23,920 --> 01:09:26,960
interesting, right?
The death penalty was to be

1145
01:09:26,960 --> 01:09:30,680
imposed on anyone speaking
impiously regarding any person

1146
01:09:30,680 --> 01:09:35,840
of the Trinity.
OK.

1147
01:09:35,880 --> 01:09:39,319
No man shall speak any word or
do any act which may tend to the

1148
01:09:39,319 --> 01:09:45,880
derision or despite of God's
holy Word upon pain of death.

1149
01:09:45,920 --> 01:09:48,680
You.
Know Joseph's not getting very

1150
01:09:48,680 --> 01:09:52,560
far in that society.
Right, right, right.

1151
01:09:52,560 --> 01:09:57,560
He, he's, he's, he's going to
question later the, the nature

1152
01:09:57,560 --> 01:10:00,800
of God, right?
He's, he's calling, look,

1153
01:10:00,800 --> 01:10:04,400
essentially he's calling BS on
the Trinity as it was understood

1154
01:10:04,400 --> 01:10:06,040
by sectarian Christians of his
time.

1155
01:10:06,440 --> 01:10:09,000
And he's also going to question
the Bible a little bit where he

1156
01:10:09,000 --> 01:10:11,200
says as far as it's translated
correctly.

1157
01:10:11,760 --> 01:10:13,920
And by the way, there's this
other book of Scripture too.

1158
01:10:13,920 --> 01:10:15,960
He's not making it very far,
right.

1159
01:10:15,960 --> 01:10:19,920
No, no, no, he's not.
And that's, that's really the

1160
01:10:19,920 --> 01:10:23,200
underlying fundamental problem
with this idea of Christian

1161
01:10:23,200 --> 01:10:29,600
nationalism, because it's, it's,
you'd almost could say it's the

1162
01:10:29,600 --> 01:10:32,680
idea, the ideal version of
Christian nationalism is

1163
01:10:33,400 --> 01:10:38,960
perfectly conservative.
It they have set up a standard

1164
01:10:39,000 --> 01:10:42,680
and they're going to hold and
preserve this standard as

1165
01:10:42,920 --> 01:10:47,120
perfectly as they can and not
allow any change or deviation

1166
01:10:47,120 --> 01:10:50,920
from it, right.
And I think while I'm

1167
01:10:50,920 --> 01:10:55,040
politically A conservative, I
think you can take that too far.

1168
01:10:55,960 --> 01:10:58,320
And even as a political
conservative, you know, some

1169
01:10:58,320 --> 01:11:05,200
things aren't worth preserving.
And honestly, in today's world,

1170
01:11:05,200 --> 01:11:08,040
you can even say that I'm
actually a progressive because

1171
01:11:08,760 --> 01:11:11,200
the standard has become crazy
world.

1172
01:11:12,320 --> 01:11:14,840
And I'm more of that.
I feel like I'm more in a, in a,

1173
01:11:14,960 --> 01:11:19,200
in a rebellion against this
horrible standard, which would

1174
01:11:19,200 --> 01:11:23,880
make me progressive if I if I
don't agree with with the

1175
01:11:23,880 --> 01:11:28,440
transgender ideas, that kind of
makes me a rebel today.

1176
01:11:28,640 --> 01:11:33,040
That kind of puts me on the on
the person calling for change.

1177
01:11:34,120 --> 01:11:38,640
So you could almost say we are
in a Theo national estate right

1178
01:11:38,640 --> 01:11:42,520
now with this kind of a woke
religion.

1179
01:11:43,960 --> 01:11:45,800
Sure.
Let me ask you this question.

1180
01:11:45,800 --> 01:11:47,920
If you're going to cover it
later, just let me know and we

1181
01:11:47,920 --> 01:11:51,360
can show it.
But because this is something I

1182
01:11:51,360 --> 01:11:54,240
feel like it's fundamentalist,
there's got to be the right

1183
01:11:54,240 --> 01:11:57,000
balance to, right?
Because I do feel like this

1184
01:11:57,000 --> 01:12:00,480
fundamentalist, one of our major
callings is let's preserve the

1185
01:12:00,480 --> 01:12:02,560
stuff that everybody else is
getting rid of.

1186
01:12:03,920 --> 01:12:07,600
So the question then becomes,
how do we balance that out,

1187
01:12:07,680 --> 01:12:10,520
right?
How do we hold to those those

1188
01:12:10,520 --> 01:12:14,680
things that everyone else wants
to get rid of at the same time,

1189
01:12:14,680 --> 01:12:19,120
be flexible enough to adjust,
maybe not on principle or

1190
01:12:19,120 --> 01:12:24,360
doctrine, but adjust in our in
in other ways so that we can, we

1191
01:12:24,360 --> 01:12:26,520
can go forward with the work,
right?

1192
01:12:26,880 --> 01:12:29,040
Right.
Well, so again, going back, I've

1193
01:12:29,040 --> 01:12:30,880
got this, I've got things, I've
got this.

1194
01:12:31,080 --> 01:12:34,280
I found the solution.
It's in history and it's so

1195
01:12:34,280 --> 01:12:36,840
cool, right, 'cause it ties
right into where we're at.

1196
01:12:37,200 --> 01:12:40,360
So the, the Puritans and the,
and the Pilgrims, they bring

1197
01:12:40,360 --> 01:12:45,160
over this beautiful Zionist
idea, right, of, of becoming

1198
01:12:45,160 --> 01:12:47,920
God's people.
But they, they're still carrying

1199
01:12:47,920 --> 01:12:51,480
this, this kind of Christian
national, you know, state

1200
01:12:51,480 --> 01:12:54,760
enforced Christianity baggage
with them.

1201
01:12:55,200 --> 01:13:00,600
And obviously God, like you
said, God cannot restore the

1202
01:13:00,600 --> 01:13:04,120
gospel in this country, in this
country at that time.

1203
01:13:05,040 --> 01:13:07,480
But I think God still God's got
a plan.

1204
01:13:07,760 --> 01:13:09,320
He's the Grand Master chess
player.

1205
01:13:09,320 --> 01:13:11,920
It might look like, you know,
check here, but you know, he's,

1206
01:13:12,000 --> 01:13:15,200
he's got another move.
And the move interesting comes

1207
01:13:15,200 --> 01:13:18,200
from a guy that also got brought
up in your last podcast, and

1208
01:13:18,200 --> 01:13:23,040
that's Rodger Williams.
And so Rodger Williams, I think

1209
01:13:23,040 --> 01:13:27,320
you'd like Rodger Williams.
He, he was he, he, he pissed

1210
01:13:27,320 --> 01:13:31,560
everybody off, right?
He pissed everybody off.

1211
01:13:31,560 --> 01:13:35,120
And he starts off really with
this kind of extreme

1212
01:13:35,120 --> 01:13:37,360
zealousness.
So he comes over with the

1213
01:13:37,360 --> 01:13:39,640
pilgrims.
I mean, he comes over with the

1214
01:13:39,640 --> 01:13:43,560
Puritans and he's in their
society and he keeps arguing the

1215
01:13:43,560 --> 01:13:45,960
Pilgrim, the separatist
argument, like we have to be

1216
01:13:45,960 --> 01:13:47,640
separate from the Anglican
Church.

1217
01:13:47,640 --> 01:13:49,800
We have to be completely
separated from them.

1218
01:13:49,800 --> 01:13:51,760
They, they are so corrupt.
It's irredeemable.

1219
01:13:52,200 --> 01:13:56,640
And, and the, the Puritans are
like, no, no, no, that's a

1220
01:13:56,640 --> 01:13:59,320
little bit too much.
You're going, you're going too

1221
01:13:59,320 --> 01:14:01,280
far.
And eventually they try him for

1222
01:14:01,280 --> 01:14:06,360
blasphemy over that.
Well, they try to, they charge

1223
01:14:06,360 --> 01:14:10,400
him with it and, and he ends up
fleeing and he goes and joins

1224
01:14:10,400 --> 01:14:12,880
the pilgrims.
And that, I mean, that makes a

1225
01:14:12,880 --> 01:14:14,760
lot of sense because they're
also separatists.

1226
01:14:14,760 --> 01:14:17,040
He was getting in trouble for
preaching separatism.

1227
01:14:17,480 --> 01:14:21,360
But as your last guest pointed
out, he didn't get along very

1228
01:14:21,400 --> 01:14:25,560
there very well either.
He starts telling them, you

1229
01:14:25,600 --> 01:14:26,960
know, this is you got to do it
this way.

1230
01:14:26,960 --> 01:14:29,120
You got to do it this way.
He had the answers.

1231
01:14:29,120 --> 01:14:31,960
He knew how to do it.
They kicked him out.

1232
01:14:35,360 --> 01:14:37,280
Sound like the guy already to be
honest with you.

1233
01:14:37,880 --> 01:14:39,520
Right.
So I get the impression he's a

1234
01:14:39,520 --> 01:14:42,560
lot like Saul before he becomes
Paul, right?

1235
01:14:42,600 --> 01:14:45,880
He's just super, super zealous.
And he, he goes back with the

1236
01:14:45,880 --> 01:14:48,000
Puritans, tries to hang out
there.

1237
01:14:48,000 --> 01:14:49,640
And it's just not.
And they're, they're coming to

1238
01:14:49,640 --> 01:14:51,600
come after him and they're like,
we're done with this guy.

1239
01:14:51,840 --> 01:14:53,200
We're going to send it back to
England.

1240
01:14:53,520 --> 01:14:55,440
He can't we we can't let him
stay out here.

1241
01:14:55,440 --> 01:14:56,600
He's going to cause too much
trouble.

1242
01:14:57,440 --> 01:14:58,600
Yeah.
He can't hang anymore.

1243
01:14:58,600 --> 01:15:01,080
He's got to go home.
Yeah, but apparently the

1244
01:15:01,080 --> 01:15:04,440
governor tipped him off and he
fled before they came to arrest

1245
01:15:04,440 --> 01:15:07,640
him.
And he goes on to found

1246
01:15:08,920 --> 01:15:13,320
Providence Plantation, which we
now call Rhode Island.

1247
01:15:15,360 --> 01:15:20,280
And in this whole process, at
some point, I don't know exactly

1248
01:15:20,280 --> 01:15:24,440
where he has a, he kind of has a
come to Jesus moment, I think,

1249
01:15:25,360 --> 01:15:29,480
and he kind of realizes he's
being overzealous and maybe

1250
01:15:29,920 --> 01:15:32,720
maybe all of the churches are
corrupt.

1251
01:15:35,520 --> 01:15:42,520
An interesting idea, isn't it?
And so instead of trying to

1252
01:15:42,520 --> 01:15:47,800
create a, the perfect Christian
nationalist utopia, he starts

1253
01:15:47,800 --> 01:15:52,800
thinking, you know what, what we
really need is a place where you

1254
01:15:52,800 --> 01:15:55,200
have a guaranteed freedom of
conscience.

1255
01:15:58,240 --> 01:16:00,640
And this is a revolutionary
idea.

1256
01:16:01,000 --> 01:16:06,520
In fact, the, the Rhode Island
Charter is the first government

1257
01:16:06,520 --> 01:16:10,000
document, right?
Charter, constitution thing of

1258
01:16:10,000 --> 01:16:13,600
that thing of that sort,
guaranteeing, guaranteeing these

1259
01:16:13,600 --> 01:16:18,240
religious rights.
I think I had like picture of it

1260
01:16:18,280 --> 01:16:20,960
somewhere.
Well, it might not.

1261
01:16:20,960 --> 01:16:23,680
It's, it's, it's pretty good.
Look it up sometime if you got

1262
01:16:23,680 --> 01:16:25,240
the time.
It's it's, it's pretty cool.

1263
01:16:25,240 --> 01:16:29,040
Basically, they're like, yeah,
you know, religions tend to

1264
01:16:29,040 --> 01:16:32,640
persecute and try to suppress
other beliefs that aren't in

1265
01:16:32,640 --> 01:16:37,000
line with the majority.
And as long as you're not just

1266
01:16:37,000 --> 01:16:40,680
going out and causing hell, like
murdering, you know, just

1267
01:16:41,560 --> 01:16:43,800
serious problems, as long as
you're not going out causing

1268
01:16:43,800 --> 01:16:47,680
serious problems in your
religious belief, we're going to

1269
01:16:47,680 --> 01:16:51,160
try and experiment and let this
colony have a charter where

1270
01:16:51,160 --> 01:16:54,920
there is a guaranteed freedom,
basically freedom of religion.

1271
01:16:55,880 --> 01:17:00,200
Now, it might be explicitly
Christian at this time, but it

1272
01:17:00,200 --> 01:17:04,320
is nonetheless a huge
advancement in, in the history.

1273
01:17:04,320 --> 01:17:09,680
I mean, this is a, the history
of, of, of mankind, this idea of

1274
01:17:09,680 --> 01:17:12,560
we're going to have a, a
government that's going to not

1275
01:17:12,560 --> 01:17:16,840
just protect the state religion
or enforce a state religion or

1276
01:17:16,840 --> 01:17:18,360
protect, no, it's going to
protect everybody.

1277
01:17:19,480 --> 01:17:21,440
Everybody gets, everybody gets
to have rights.

1278
01:17:21,520 --> 01:17:23,320
You get rights, you get rights
you get.

1279
01:17:24,400 --> 01:17:26,200
Rights.
It's the Oprah of of rights,

1280
01:17:26,640 --> 01:17:28,200
everybody.
Gets the Oprah of rights.

1281
01:17:28,840 --> 01:17:32,120
You know, and that, that you're,
you're right that that is a huge

1282
01:17:32,120 --> 01:17:38,440
leap forward because sometimes
mankind's progress goes one

1283
01:17:38,440 --> 01:17:41,680
small step at a time, and
sometimes there's huge leaps,

1284
01:17:41,880 --> 01:17:44,600
Right, Right.
And that huge leap right there

1285
01:17:44,600 --> 01:17:48,880
that you talked about with
Rodger Williams would echo for

1286
01:17:49,120 --> 01:17:51,560
it's still echoing for years to
come, right?

1287
01:17:52,120 --> 01:17:57,560
That one thing sets up so much
for not just the ability to

1288
01:17:57,560 --> 01:18:02,480
speak freely, but to be able to
articulate ideas that may not

1289
01:18:02,480 --> 01:18:06,080
necessarily be popular.
And you're protected in that.

1290
01:18:07,040 --> 01:18:11,520
That is a a different thing than
quite frankly, as I look back, I

1291
01:18:11,520 --> 01:18:13,680
don't think anybody else tried
it, right?

1292
01:18:13,920 --> 01:18:19,000
I think this is the first time
in in the world that someone had

1293
01:18:19,000 --> 01:18:23,480
the crazy idea of like, well, do
we have to kill each other over

1294
01:18:23,480 --> 01:18:24,080
this?
Right?

1295
01:18:24,080 --> 01:18:25,400
Like can.
We have to kill each other.

1296
01:18:25,520 --> 01:18:27,080
That's actually OK.
I got to show this.

1297
01:18:27,080 --> 01:18:28,600
That's literally.
Just get along.

1298
01:18:29,280 --> 01:18:31,320
This is it.
This is from Roger Williams

1299
01:18:31,320 --> 01:18:33,800
writings.
OK, he's and he's gone through

1300
01:18:33,800 --> 01:18:35,240
Doc.
He's going to issue his bullet

1301
01:18:35,240 --> 01:18:38,800
points.
OK, Burst that the blood of so

1302
01:18:38,800 --> 01:18:42,560
many 100,000 souls of
Protestants and Papists spilt in

1303
01:18:42,560 --> 01:18:45,480
the wars of present and former
ages for the respective

1304
01:18:45,480 --> 01:18:51,840
conscious conscious consciences
is not required nor accepted by

1305
01:18:51,880 --> 01:18:57,440
Jesus Christ, the Prince of
Peace, Maestro.

1306
01:18:57,440 --> 01:19:01,720
Spicy.
So this is kind of

1307
01:19:01,720 --> 01:19:04,000
revolutionary.
And again, I guess, you know,

1308
01:19:04,000 --> 01:19:09,800
the Pilgrims and the Puritans
weren't huge fans, but you know,

1309
01:19:09,800 --> 01:19:17,920
who were kind of big fans of
this, the founding Fathers, they

1310
01:19:17,920 --> 01:19:23,240
were, I mean, basically the, the
1st Amendment goes back to Roger

1311
01:19:23,240 --> 01:19:26,760
Williams and his idea of, of
freedom of conscience.

1312
01:19:28,480 --> 01:19:30,640
So and.
I want to bring something up

1313
01:19:30,640 --> 01:19:32,680
here about the First Amendment
because I think this is

1314
01:19:32,680 --> 01:19:37,720
important to realize and I think
it's the story I've told you

1315
01:19:37,720 --> 01:19:41,080
before.
But when I was going to to to

1316
01:19:41,080 --> 01:19:44,360
college the last time after I
tore my ACL and I was on the

1317
01:19:44,360 --> 01:19:45,920
mend and I had nothing better to
do.

1318
01:19:46,760 --> 01:19:49,560
I went in and took a bunch of
classes on political science,

1319
01:19:49,560 --> 01:19:53,000
right couple classes on the
Constitution and understanding

1320
01:19:53,000 --> 01:19:55,040
it.
And we were talking about the

1321
01:19:55,160 --> 01:19:58,480
the 1st Amendment and my
professor said something

1322
01:19:58,480 --> 01:20:00,520
fascinating.
He said, do you want to know

1323
01:20:00,520 --> 01:20:03,280
what kind of speech needs
protected the most?

1324
01:20:03,920 --> 01:20:07,160
And of course just.
A ton of hands go up.

1325
01:20:08,120 --> 01:20:12,120
And so everyone's like freedom
of religion, freedom to

1326
01:20:12,120 --> 01:20:18,040
criticize the government and
ability to, to explain ideas

1327
01:20:18,040 --> 01:20:20,160
that are difficult or may be
hard to hear.

1328
01:20:20,800 --> 01:20:23,040
And everyone, almost everyone
takes crack.

1329
01:20:23,240 --> 01:20:26,160
And finally he's like, you're
close, you're almost getting

1330
01:20:26,160 --> 01:20:27,360
there.
And he goes, let me tell you

1331
01:20:27,360 --> 01:20:30,360
what kind of speech needs
protection, the kind you

1332
01:20:30,360 --> 01:20:36,760
disagree with the most.
And when, when we get like,

1333
01:20:37,440 --> 01:20:40,520
like, as I look at it, what is
the First Amendment for?

1334
01:20:41,240 --> 01:20:45,640
It's for the profits.
It's for the profits because

1335
01:20:46,000 --> 01:20:50,800
before the before this idea of
we're not going to kill anybody

1336
01:20:50,800 --> 01:20:52,720
over what they say or their
ideas.

1337
01:20:53,320 --> 01:20:56,200
You're Samuel the Lamanite,
you're up on the wall getting

1338
01:20:56,200 --> 01:20:59,680
arrows shot at you, right?
There's no protections there.

1339
01:21:00,120 --> 01:21:05,360
If you are, if you are are
Lehigh, it's perfectly normal

1340
01:21:05,360 --> 01:21:07,920
for you to be stoned.
You said something that they

1341
01:21:07,920 --> 01:21:09,600
disagree with.
You're going to take one to the

1342
01:21:09,600 --> 01:21:13,880
head.
Take break it to you that

1343
01:21:13,880 --> 01:21:16,200
amendment.
Methods of execution changed,

1344
01:21:16,240 --> 01:21:18,560
but that rule has.
That has been the rule of

1345
01:21:18,560 --> 01:21:24,600
history.
Like America was the exception

1346
01:21:24,600 --> 01:21:28,200
to the rule.
People, I think have taken it

1347
01:21:28,200 --> 01:21:30,640
for granted because a lot of
these principles have spread out

1348
01:21:30,640 --> 01:21:33,640
to other places, I don't think
quite as successfully as

1349
01:21:33,640 --> 01:21:35,600
America, but they have spread
out.

1350
01:21:35,920 --> 01:21:38,320
And I think people kind of take
it for granted now.

1351
01:21:38,720 --> 01:21:42,480
And I keep, it's frustrating to
me because I'm like this last

1352
01:21:42,480 --> 01:21:46,160
250 years, Yeah, this is an an
anomaly, right?

1353
01:21:46,320 --> 01:21:49,560
This doesn't happen a lot, if at
all.

1354
01:21:49,880 --> 01:21:53,120
Like, this is it.
And so people have to understand

1355
01:21:53,120 --> 01:21:58,920
that that that First Amendment
there is there to protect

1356
01:21:59,400 --> 01:22:03,760
against the ability to shut a
profit down essentially, right?

1357
01:22:03,760 --> 01:22:07,640
I'm sure they didn't look at it
like prophets, but that's

1358
01:22:07,640 --> 01:22:10,920
essentially what it's about.
Well, it really is, right.

1359
01:22:10,920 --> 01:22:13,120
So the First Amendment is about
religion.

1360
01:22:13,480 --> 01:22:15,840
Freedom of speech is about
religion, right?

1361
01:22:15,840 --> 01:22:21,520
That is a direct condom.
Prohibition of blasphemy laws is

1362
01:22:21,520 --> 01:22:24,040
the idea there, right?
The complete prohibition of it.

1363
01:22:24,040 --> 01:22:28,520
We this is not to be continued.
And they they knew what they

1364
01:22:28,520 --> 01:22:31,240
were talking about, right?
They're only a couple

1365
01:22:31,240 --> 01:22:37,520
generations away from from those
problems and they wanted more.

1366
01:22:37,520 --> 01:22:41,520
I mean, there's a lot to admire
limited government rule of law.

1367
01:22:41,560 --> 01:22:44,560
There's a lot of great
principles in the American

1368
01:22:44,560 --> 01:22:48,880
Revolution and the American
founding, but I would say the

1369
01:22:48,920 --> 01:22:52,760
most important, which is
probably why it's also the First

1370
01:22:52,760 --> 01:22:56,160
Amendment right, is that freedom
of religion and the freedom to

1371
01:22:56,440 --> 01:23:01,200
believe and preach whatever
gospel you believe in.

1372
01:23:03,280 --> 01:23:08,760
And so with without that, the
restoration could not have

1373
01:23:08,760 --> 01:23:11,840
happened.
So again, and then, you know,

1374
01:23:11,840 --> 01:23:13,920
again, going back to Rodger
Williams, it's kind of funny, a

1375
01:23:14,400 --> 01:23:19,680
lot of the Christian nationals
criticize him because he he

1376
01:23:19,680 --> 01:23:25,760
undid what they want redone.
But the critique is kind of

1377
01:23:25,760 --> 01:23:32,040
focused on he was wishy washy.
You know, he's with the

1378
01:23:32,040 --> 01:23:34,240
Pilgrims, he's with the
Puritans.

1379
01:23:34,440 --> 01:23:40,280
He actually found the Baptist
Church in America and then he

1380
01:23:41,160 --> 01:23:45,880
quits it, right?
And they look at this as a bad

1381
01:23:45,880 --> 01:23:47,960
thing.
This guy's inconsistent in his

1382
01:23:47,960 --> 01:23:50,640
faith.
I, I find that admirable.

1383
01:23:50,640 --> 01:23:53,160
He's a seeker.
He wants the truth more than

1384
01:23:53,160 --> 01:23:55,400
anything else.
That's what he wanted.

1385
01:23:55,400 --> 01:23:57,600
He was like, I want the truth.
And if I'm going to find in the

1386
01:23:57,600 --> 01:24:01,520
Puritans or the pilgrims or
Baptists, wherever, that's what

1387
01:24:01,520 --> 01:24:05,240
I want.
And when he realized, I think he

1388
01:24:05,240 --> 01:24:07,320
came, I think there's a point
where he realized this isn't

1389
01:24:07,320 --> 01:24:11,880
going to happen in my day.
And if it's not going to happen

1390
01:24:11,880 --> 01:24:17,440
in my day, I need to set in
motion the gears so that this

1391
01:24:17,440 --> 01:24:19,920
can't happen.
And you see the gear spin, you

1392
01:24:19,920 --> 01:24:23,680
see God's chess board move
again.

1393
01:24:23,680 --> 01:24:25,200
And we have the American
Revolution.

1394
01:24:25,880 --> 01:24:30,360
And so there's a lot of debate
if you know, if America is a

1395
01:24:30,360 --> 01:24:33,200
Christian nation, if it was
America founded as a Christian

1396
01:24:33,200 --> 01:24:35,400
nation.
I mean, I think you can.

1397
01:24:35,400 --> 01:24:38,720
It's undeniable.
It was a Christian nation in the

1398
01:24:38,720 --> 01:24:43,200
colony era, right?
But is America a Christian

1399
01:24:43,200 --> 01:24:50,800
nation under the Constitution?
You know, this is going to

1400
01:24:50,800 --> 01:24:56,080
irritate people so badly, I'm
going to say no, right?

1401
01:24:56,080 --> 01:24:58,080
I think it's at the Puritans
time.

1402
01:24:58,080 --> 01:25:02,040
I think the answer is yes.
Now I want to be clear here.

1403
01:25:02,040 --> 01:25:05,880
I think, I think there is
employment of Christian

1404
01:25:05,880 --> 01:25:09,120
principles that are universal,
right?

1405
01:25:10,480 --> 01:25:15,320
However, I do believe the
founders worded things the way

1406
01:25:15,320 --> 01:25:17,400
they did.
They weren't dummies, right?

1407
01:25:18,000 --> 01:25:22,720
These are people who have who
studied all sorts of religion,

1408
01:25:22,760 --> 01:25:25,320
all sorts of different
civilizations.

1409
01:25:26,160 --> 01:25:29,680
They're not dumb.
And so this idea that these

1410
01:25:29,680 --> 01:25:36,280
devout Christian men, which 90%
of them were, that they have

1411
01:25:36,280 --> 01:25:40,800
this idea that that, you know,
it's going to be an exclusively

1412
01:25:40,800 --> 01:25:44,640
Christian nation, and then they
just somehow forget to mention

1413
01:25:44,640 --> 01:25:47,440
the name Jesus in the founding
documents.

1414
01:25:48,040 --> 01:25:54,920
Now they say God or nature's God
or, or the supreme architect,

1415
01:25:55,560 --> 01:25:58,320
they'll use different verbiage
like that, but they are very

1416
01:25:58,320 --> 01:26:00,360
careful to stay away from the
name of God.

1417
01:26:01,400 --> 01:26:06,440
And given who those men were,
that was not happenstance.

1418
01:26:06,440 --> 01:26:09,760
I don't see that happening.
You're saying that Thomas

1419
01:26:09,760 --> 01:26:12,160
Jefferson wasn't an atheist or a
deist?

1420
01:26:12,960 --> 01:26:16,040
No, no.
In fact, per the last episode,

1421
01:26:16,520 --> 01:26:19,920
right, he's pining for a
restoration.

1422
01:26:20,760 --> 01:26:26,840
So he's firmly in a Christian,
but he understands it's been

1423
01:26:26,840 --> 01:26:30,520
lost, right?
And to get where he wants to go,

1424
01:26:32,240 --> 01:26:36,320
you're going to have to have a
government that is pliable

1425
01:26:36,320 --> 01:26:38,440
enough to make room for the
profits.

1426
01:26:39,680 --> 01:26:42,440
Right, exactly.
And I think that's how they

1427
01:26:42,440 --> 01:26:44,320
understood it.
It's clearly how they understood

1428
01:26:44,320 --> 01:26:47,200
it.
And here's here's my contention.

1429
01:26:47,280 --> 01:26:52,240
I think that makes it a
Christian nation because of

1430
01:26:52,240 --> 01:26:55,440
that.
So what exactly is a Christian

1431
01:26:55,440 --> 01:26:58,880
nation?
See, the Christian nationalists

1432
01:26:58,880 --> 01:27:03,080
would define a Christian nation
as one where either, and there's

1433
01:27:03,080 --> 01:27:05,720
different ideas on Christian
nationalism, to be fair, right?

1434
01:27:06,000 --> 01:27:10,840
But either a nation where every
member has, has been converted

1435
01:27:10,840 --> 01:27:13,440
one way or another, right?
Everybody's Christian.

1436
01:27:13,680 --> 01:27:17,680
He's a holy Roman Empire.
You know, you're a, you're a

1437
01:27:17,680 --> 01:27:19,720
Hindu.
Well, we've got the guns.

1438
01:27:19,800 --> 01:27:21,680
You're a, you're a Christian
now.

1439
01:27:22,800 --> 01:27:25,800
Or, you know, maybe we're going
to preach the gospel to them,

1440
01:27:25,800 --> 01:27:28,120
we're going to convert them, and
then they're all going to become

1441
01:27:28,720 --> 01:27:30,760
Christians.
But a Christian nation is a

1442
01:27:30,760 --> 01:27:37,120
nation where everybody expresses
the Christian faith.

1443
01:27:37,960 --> 01:27:41,360
And I would argue that that is
not a Christian nation because

1444
01:27:41,360 --> 01:27:44,680
that is not what Christ wants
for a nation.

1445
01:27:45,200 --> 01:27:47,880
It might be what Christ wants as
an outcome.

1446
01:27:49,320 --> 01:27:51,200
Christ wants everybody to come
to him.

1447
01:27:52,160 --> 01:27:55,640
But does Christ want people
compelled to conversion at?

1448
01:27:57,120 --> 01:28:00,200
The point of a gun.
At the point of a gun or at the

1449
01:28:00,200 --> 01:28:04,200
point of an economic stick or at
the end of the economic carrot,

1450
01:28:06,080 --> 01:28:09,440
what is it that Christ, how does
Christ want a nation to be

1451
01:28:09,440 --> 01:28:12,440
ordered?
Because I think a Christian

1452
01:28:12,440 --> 01:28:15,040
nation is the nation that's
organized according to the

1453
01:28:15,040 --> 01:28:17,960
principles that Christ wants
that nation to be organized

1454
01:28:17,960 --> 01:28:24,080
under, not whether or not you've
got a cross bumper sticker.

1455
01:28:25,360 --> 01:28:26,800
On your car.
You know what I mean?

1456
01:28:28,600 --> 01:28:30,960
He's after the heart.
He's after the heart.

1457
01:28:32,240 --> 01:28:36,080
And he wants that, you know, in
terms of how that society would

1458
01:28:36,080 --> 01:28:39,880
operate if people got to that
point, that would be great.

1459
01:28:39,960 --> 01:28:44,560
That would be fantastic because
everyone's living up to that

1460
01:28:44,560 --> 01:28:46,440
standard that Christ puts in the
heart.

1461
01:28:48,360 --> 01:28:55,400
But listening to to the Savior
in Scripture, you can tell that

1462
01:28:55,400 --> 01:28:59,000
he would not be happy with this
idea of convert or die.

1463
01:29:00,000 --> 01:29:02,640
Right.
And it's it and that's an

1464
01:29:02,640 --> 01:29:04,920
extreme way to frame it.
It doesn't even have to be,

1465
01:29:05,240 --> 01:29:07,640
well, it's an extreme way to
frame it.

1466
01:29:07,640 --> 01:29:10,280
And I think people at sport
Christian Nationalism reject

1467
01:29:10,280 --> 01:29:11,760
that.
But that is the ultimate

1468
01:29:11,760 --> 01:29:14,920
outcome, right?
When you, when you abolish the

1469
01:29:14,920 --> 01:29:18,800
First Amendment, which to be
clear is, is what they want,

1470
01:29:18,800 --> 01:29:20,360
that that's the outcome they
want.

1471
01:29:21,400 --> 01:29:25,600
When you abolish that, you are
going to at some ways form or

1472
01:29:25,600 --> 01:29:28,120
another, you're, you're coercing
conversions.

1473
01:29:29,920 --> 01:29:35,720
And I think that we are, we
aren't here to be a Christian

1474
01:29:35,720 --> 01:29:38,000
nation in that sense.
If God wanted a Christian nation

1475
01:29:38,000 --> 01:29:40,960
like that, God could raise up a
prophet to do that.

1476
01:29:43,040 --> 01:29:47,160
I mean, even Joseph Smith, I
mean, if Joseph Smith could have

1477
01:29:48,000 --> 01:29:53,320
performed miraculous powers with
the priesthood and not just

1478
01:29:53,320 --> 01:29:55,160
perform the restoration, we
could have that.

1479
01:29:55,160 --> 01:29:58,120
We could have a Mormon national
nationalist country today.

1480
01:30:01,000 --> 01:30:03,880
If, if Moses did like what if,
if, if Joseph Smith did like

1481
01:30:03,880 --> 01:30:06,000
what Moses did and what the
president, we're going to send

1482
01:30:06,000 --> 01:30:07,280
plagues.
We're going to, we're going to

1483
01:30:08,400 --> 01:30:11,600
100%.
Give us, give us this country.

1484
01:30:12,200 --> 01:30:16,720
We'll talk a little bit about
Zion versus what Christian

1485
01:30:16,720 --> 01:30:19,640
nationalism, because they're two
different things.

1486
01:30:21,240 --> 01:30:24,760
Joseph Smith, right?
Not you and me extrapolating.

1487
01:30:24,800 --> 01:30:28,520
It's pretty clear.
So yeah, no, I'm looking forward

1488
01:30:28,520 --> 01:30:30,000
to it.
Right.

1489
01:30:30,080 --> 01:30:33,000
And so the other thing is in
Mormonism we believe in

1490
01:30:33,000 --> 01:30:37,760
different degrees of glory.
And I think this actually is a

1491
01:30:37,760 --> 01:30:41,960
really important point too,
because, OK, we are different

1492
01:30:41,960 --> 01:30:43,960
from the Christians.
Let's be clear here.

1493
01:30:44,440 --> 01:30:45,800
It is kind of a different
gospel.

1494
01:30:46,440 --> 01:30:49,760
One of the reasons it's a
different gospel is because if

1495
01:30:49,760 --> 01:30:53,080
you're a strict Protestant or
Catholic, you are operating

1496
01:30:53,080 --> 01:30:54,560
under this.
Maybe not with some, there's

1497
01:30:54,560 --> 01:30:57,240
amazing nuance with with
Catholic and stuff in purgatory,

1498
01:30:57,240 --> 01:31:01,720
but to a large degree, basically
if you, if you are not, if you

1499
01:31:01,720 --> 01:31:04,000
are not a Christian, if you have
not confessed Christ, you are

1500
01:31:04,000 --> 01:31:09,320
going to spend eternity in hell.
Well, that's a serious

1501
01:31:09,320 --> 01:31:11,640
consequence and eternity of
hell.

1502
01:31:13,920 --> 01:31:19,320
If your children, by getting
converted to Buddhism by their

1503
01:31:19,320 --> 01:31:22,280
Buddhist by the Buddhist
neighbors, are now going to

1504
01:31:22,280 --> 01:31:25,560
spend eternity in hell, what
wouldn't you do to save your

1505
01:31:25,560 --> 01:31:30,120
children from that fate?
100% yeah, I see where you're

1506
01:31:30,120 --> 01:31:31,480
going.
Right.

1507
01:31:32,080 --> 01:31:35,120
And Christ clearly doesn't teach
to do that, which is why I don't

1508
01:31:35,120 --> 01:31:38,960
think we see that.
But the theology, the standard

1509
01:31:38,960 --> 01:31:42,640
theology of of Christianity, the
standard gospel does lead to

1510
01:31:42,640 --> 01:31:47,320
that conclusion that we should
be, you know, even if we've got

1511
01:31:47,320 --> 01:31:50,280
it at the barrel of a gun,
whatever it takes, we need to

1512
01:31:50,280 --> 01:31:53,240
make other people Christian and
we need to prevent them from

1513
01:31:53,240 --> 01:32:00,480
unchristianizing us at any cost
because eternal suffering is

1514
01:32:00,480 --> 01:32:04,880
hanging in the balance here.
And so with the restoration,

1515
01:32:04,880 --> 01:32:08,640
though, we, we get a very
different theology to a large

1516
01:32:08,640 --> 01:32:13,840
degree, everybody is saved.
Who wants to be saved under our

1517
01:32:13,840 --> 01:32:15,760
theology.
If you did, well, what if you

1518
01:32:15,760 --> 01:32:17,680
didn't confess Christ in this
life?

1519
01:32:18,880 --> 01:32:22,040
Well, you're going to be able
to, if you choose to, you can

1520
01:32:22,040 --> 01:32:25,040
accept Christ after this life
and we can get those ordinances

1521
01:32:25,040 --> 01:32:28,720
done.
You're not damned to health for

1522
01:32:28,720 --> 01:32:32,760
eternity after all.
And we've got 3° of glory as

1523
01:32:32,760 --> 01:32:35,680
well.
Is the law the same in every

1524
01:32:35,680 --> 01:32:39,280
degree of glory?
Do they all operate under the

1525
01:32:39,280 --> 01:32:43,400
exact same law?
No, there's different

1526
01:32:43,400 --> 01:32:45,200
responsibilities.
That means there's different

1527
01:32:45,200 --> 01:32:47,920
laws that are associated with
those rights and

1528
01:32:47,920 --> 01:32:50,040
responsibilities.
Right.

1529
01:32:50,080 --> 01:32:51,960
So how do you have a?
How do you have the?

1530
01:32:52,280 --> 01:32:57,480
How do you have a heaven?
How do you have the prototype of

1531
01:32:57,480 --> 01:33:00,800
heaven here on earth?
If some people are striving for

1532
01:33:00,800 --> 01:33:03,360
a tea luster glory, some are
going for a terrestrial glory,

1533
01:33:03,360 --> 01:33:04,960
some are going for a sea luster
glory.

1534
01:33:05,480 --> 01:33:08,920
Different laws, but we're all
living here at the same time.

1535
01:33:10,840 --> 01:33:14,600
Peacefully.
Peacefully, hopefully, right it

1536
01:33:14,600 --> 01:33:18,320
shouldn't we be?
Don't we need to be?

1537
01:33:18,320 --> 01:33:24,320
Don't we need to accommodate for
everything If if you're going to

1538
01:33:24,320 --> 01:33:27,080
hold everybody to the highest
law and that's the only thing

1539
01:33:27,080 --> 01:33:30,320
that's allowable, you're now
exercising unrighteous dominion

1540
01:33:30,320 --> 01:33:33,840
on those that are lower and vice
versa is the same too, which is

1541
01:33:33,840 --> 01:33:37,400
the threat I think people are
struggling with today is we are

1542
01:33:37,720 --> 01:33:42,040
we are being the the
government's today seem to be

1543
01:33:42,040 --> 01:33:48,520
trying to force us into a state
where it's not that different

1544
01:33:48,520 --> 01:33:52,400
for the Christian nationalists
are arguing for basically an end

1545
01:33:52,400 --> 01:33:55,000
of plurality and then enforce
state religion.

1546
01:33:55,280 --> 01:33:59,240
Will that state religion be the
woke, the woke left or will it

1547
01:33:59,240 --> 01:34:07,400
be well, well, the woke right.
And I think it's a bit of a

1548
01:34:07,400 --> 01:34:12,760
false dilemma that that freedom
of of speech and religion

1549
01:34:12,760 --> 01:34:18,040
doesn't work.
We can't make that work, but I

1550
01:34:18,040 --> 01:34:19,960
do understand the draw and I
want, I want to talk a little

1551
01:34:19,960 --> 01:34:22,320
bit to the motivations behind
this too, because I don't, I

1552
01:34:22,320 --> 01:34:25,320
don't look down on anybody who
is a Christian nationalist,

1553
01:34:25,320 --> 01:34:26,800
right?
Any friends I have and family

1554
01:34:26,800 --> 01:34:28,400
that are kind of buying into
this.

1555
01:34:28,800 --> 01:34:33,440
It's not a I'm better than you
type of an attitude here because

1556
01:34:33,480 --> 01:34:36,560
there are some legitimate
problems in the world today.

1557
01:34:37,320 --> 01:34:42,880
And Christian nationalism looks
like a really good answer to, I

1558
01:34:42,880 --> 01:34:44,640
think, to a lot of these kinds
of problems.

1559
01:34:45,920 --> 01:34:48,960
You know, here's an example, a
personal example.

1560
01:34:48,960 --> 01:34:53,240
I used to live in Idaho, and I
lived in a small town in Idaho.

1561
01:34:53,520 --> 01:34:57,720
And it's a rural, very, very
conservative, right.

1562
01:34:58,760 --> 01:35:00,320
But the Californians are moving
in.

1563
01:35:02,800 --> 01:35:07,640
Californians are moving in, and
they are messing stuff up.

1564
01:35:07,800 --> 01:35:11,720
When my grandpa first moved to
Idaho, there was no building

1565
01:35:11,720 --> 01:35:14,000
permit requirements in the
county.

1566
01:35:14,760 --> 01:35:18,640
And he, he's a builder coming
from California and he actually

1567
01:35:18,640 --> 01:35:23,400
agrees with the building permit
standards and he chose to build

1568
01:35:23,400 --> 01:35:26,040
his house according to those
standards regardless.

1569
01:35:26,880 --> 01:35:33,440
But in Idaho back in that day,
back in like 9899, there was no,

1570
01:35:34,000 --> 01:35:35,360
there was no building permit
loss.

1571
01:35:36,040 --> 01:35:39,440
Well, a few years back, I hear
that one of my grandpa's old

1572
01:35:39,440 --> 01:35:44,600
neighbors got fined and ticketed
by the county because he had a

1573
01:35:44,920 --> 01:35:49,200
plastic wrapped wooden, not even
wood.

1574
01:35:49,200 --> 01:35:56,520
I it's a plastic pole greenhouse
on his property and he had built

1575
01:35:56,880 --> 01:36:04,360
this thing without a permit.
This is a non permanent

1576
01:36:04,360 --> 01:36:06,680
structure, right?
This is literally just APVC pipe

1577
01:36:06,880 --> 01:36:09,920
and some and some plastic wrap.
It's a tent.

1578
01:36:10,600 --> 01:36:11,520
It's a tent.
Yeah.

1579
01:36:12,560 --> 01:36:15,680
This is a tent For, for, for,
for, for your groceries.

1580
01:36:16,480 --> 01:36:20,680
And there's the city, county
went after them for not having a

1581
01:36:20,680 --> 01:36:23,760
permit to build that.
I mean, things are changing.

1582
01:36:23,960 --> 01:36:27,800
Things have changed in Idaho.
And do you know why they're

1583
01:36:27,800 --> 01:36:31,440
changing?
As the demographics are

1584
01:36:31,440 --> 01:36:34,520
changing.
Yeah, these foreigners, these

1585
01:36:34,520 --> 01:36:38,920
foreigners are coming in with
their their foreigners by

1586
01:36:39,000 --> 01:36:40,760
Californians, right?
They don't have, but they don't

1587
01:36:40,760 --> 01:36:44,600
have our values.
They really are foreigners and

1588
01:36:44,640 --> 01:36:47,680
in the true sense of the word.
And they, and they're bringing

1589
01:36:47,680 --> 01:36:51,080
their false gods and they're
setting up their, their, they're

1590
01:36:51,080 --> 01:36:54,840
setting up their false temples
and they're trying to push us

1591
01:36:54,840 --> 01:37:00,640
out.
And in that context, I

1592
01:37:00,640 --> 01:37:05,160
understand a reaction to want to
be like, well, we've got to, we

1593
01:37:05,160 --> 01:37:09,600
have got to stop our cities and
communities from getting

1594
01:37:09,600 --> 01:37:13,960
corrupted by this terrible
influence, right?

1595
01:37:15,080 --> 01:37:16,280
Right.
So.

1596
01:37:16,280 --> 01:37:18,840
But here's the rub.
But here's the rub.

1597
01:37:19,120 --> 01:37:24,280
OK, this is the same thing that
the Missourians said about the

1598
01:37:24,280 --> 01:37:28,520
Mormons and what justified their
extermination orders. 100

1599
01:37:28,520 --> 01:37:35,400
percent, 100% and this is where
that equilibrium has to be

1600
01:37:35,400 --> 01:37:40,680
struck right To where to where
you're you're you're just open

1601
01:37:40,680 --> 01:37:46,560
enough to to welcome people in,
but also just conservative

1602
01:37:46,560 --> 01:37:52,040
enough to say.
But you got to kind of, you

1603
01:37:52,040 --> 01:37:56,480
know, walk to these bare minimum
standards of behavior.

1604
01:37:57,480 --> 01:38:00,800
Yeah, not belief, but behavior.
Those are two different things.

1605
01:38:01,640 --> 01:38:05,680
And, and, and it, it, it, it is
a rub.

1606
01:38:05,680 --> 01:38:10,400
It's never easy to to strike
that, that equilibrium because

1607
01:38:10,400 --> 01:38:15,240
you do, I would think in a, in a
healthy, robust society, you do

1608
01:38:15,240 --> 01:38:19,840
want some debate, you want some
back and forth, because it's

1609
01:38:19,840 --> 01:38:23,360
often through that debate that
things get stronger, right?

1610
01:38:23,800 --> 01:38:27,560
That's what made the United
States Constitutional become the

1611
01:38:27,560 --> 01:38:32,520
longest acting constitution on
the planet, was the fact it was

1612
01:38:32,520 --> 01:38:37,480
forged out of debate and out of
an exchange of ideas that were

1613
01:38:37,480 --> 01:38:42,160
at times uncomfortable to the
point that it almost blows up.

1614
01:38:42,160 --> 01:38:45,760
And Franklin's got to be like,
come back in, let's all say a

1615
01:38:45,760 --> 01:38:52,280
prayer and we'll do this again.
But the fruit of that was

1616
01:38:52,280 --> 01:38:55,480
stability.
And so it is a rub.

1617
01:38:55,480 --> 01:38:58,760
You got to figure out what the
right the right balances there.

1618
01:38:59,680 --> 01:39:02,960
Yeah, and I, I think here we
are, right.

1619
01:39:02,960 --> 01:39:07,160
And Mormonism survived by the
skin of its teeth even in

1620
01:39:07,160 --> 01:39:12,880
America with the incredibly
liberal idea, liberal meaning

1621
01:39:12,960 --> 01:39:16,640
changeable right of freedom of
speech and freedom of religion

1622
01:39:16,640 --> 01:39:21,360
in America.
Even still, the Restoration

1623
01:39:22,000 --> 01:39:26,400
survives by the skin of its
teeth countless times, again and

1624
01:39:26,400 --> 01:39:29,680
again and again.
And we're and we, we basically

1625
01:39:29,680 --> 01:39:30,920
are.
We're driven out of America

1626
01:39:30,920 --> 01:39:36,600
entirely.
And even that wasn't enough.

1627
01:39:38,360 --> 01:39:40,000
Even that was.
An accident later.

1628
01:39:40,840 --> 01:39:46,320
Yeah.
So there's, I understand the

1629
01:39:46,320 --> 01:39:48,880
desire to say, hey, you know
what, it looks like everything

1630
01:39:48,880 --> 01:39:51,760
is falling apart.
All of our institutions are

1631
01:39:51,760 --> 01:39:53,760
failing.
Nothing's going the way that it

1632
01:39:53,760 --> 01:39:56,120
should.
We've got to do something about

1633
01:39:56,120 --> 01:40:00,120
this.
And I don't disagree with that

1634
01:40:00,120 --> 01:40:01,600
sentiment.
I think we do need to do

1635
01:40:01,600 --> 01:40:05,160
something about it.
But what I'm questioning is, is,

1636
01:40:05,160 --> 01:40:09,280
is is Christian nationalism
really the solution?

1637
01:40:09,840 --> 01:40:12,160
Because as I was going through
that history, right, the

1638
01:40:12,160 --> 01:40:14,440
restoration could not have
happened without the American

1639
01:40:14,440 --> 01:40:16,800
founders.
The American founders could not

1640
01:40:16,800 --> 01:40:19,320
have happened if not for the the
pilgrims and the Puritans.

1641
01:40:19,880 --> 01:40:22,040
The Pilgrims and the Puritans
couldn't have happened without

1642
01:40:22,040 --> 01:40:25,760
the without the Reformation.
That never would have happened

1643
01:40:25,760 --> 01:40:27,640
without the holy, the Holy Roman
Empire.

1644
01:40:27,760 --> 01:40:31,480
Christianity might have died off
if if the Holy Roman Empire

1645
01:40:31,480 --> 01:40:34,920
hadn't happened and and
Christians were continued to be

1646
01:40:34,920 --> 01:40:38,280
persecuted.
All of this in history.

1647
01:40:38,280 --> 01:40:43,600
I see God's hand and he's, it's
almost always like 2 steps

1648
01:40:43,600 --> 01:40:48,320
forward, one step back, right?
We make a couple advancements,

1649
01:40:48,640 --> 01:40:51,400
but then there's a a compromise
made and something that's lost,

1650
01:40:51,920 --> 01:40:54,560
but then we make a couple
advancements and then maybe

1651
01:40:54,560 --> 01:40:57,400
another compromise.
And to get to that place where

1652
01:40:57,400 --> 01:41:01,960
the restoration can happen.
And that last key piece of the

1653
01:41:01,960 --> 01:41:07,760
puzzle was freedom of religion
was a plural, pluralistic,

1654
01:41:07,760 --> 01:41:13,160
secular society and government,
and it couldn't have happened

1655
01:41:13,160 --> 01:41:16,960
any other way.
And so while things are falling

1656
01:41:16,960 --> 01:41:20,680
apart around us right now, my
contention is we don't need to

1657
01:41:21,360 --> 01:41:25,400
take that step back.
Few years back I started to get

1658
01:41:25,400 --> 01:41:27,680
the feeling that we, as
fundamentalists and orthodox

1659
01:41:27,680 --> 01:41:31,080
Mormons, we need our own stuff.
Up to now, we've been able to

1660
01:41:31,080 --> 01:41:34,920
buy and purchase all of our
scriptures, books, art and music

1661
01:41:35,080 --> 01:41:38,120
from other restoration
organizations and that's been

1662
01:41:38,120 --> 01:41:39,960
good.
But there's no guarantee it's

1663
01:41:39,960 --> 01:41:43,360
going to remain that way.
Also, it can be a bit tricky as

1664
01:41:43,360 --> 01:41:46,800
you scour the Internet trying to
find all the books from your

1665
01:41:46,800 --> 01:41:49,960
favorite fundamentalist or
orthodox Mormon authors.

1666
01:41:50,520 --> 01:41:52,840
As I thought about this, I feel
like I was really given a

1667
01:41:52,840 --> 01:41:55,760
solution now through the hard
work of others, because let's

1668
01:41:55,760 --> 01:41:59,000
face it, I'm the guy least
qualified in all the world to

1669
01:41:59,000 --> 01:42:02,280
build a website.
I'm happy to present to you 1830

1670
01:42:02,280 --> 01:42:05,800
mercantile.org.
Right now on the website you can

1671
01:42:05,800 --> 01:42:08,640
see that we have all the books
that have ever been written by 4

1672
01:42:08,640 --> 01:42:11,640
authors, including names like
Drew, Briny and Ogdenkraut.

1673
01:42:12,000 --> 01:42:16,760
Also very soon there will be a
link to buy art and music all

1674
01:42:16,760 --> 01:42:20,080
produced by Mormons with a deep
love for the restored gospel.

1675
01:42:20,320 --> 01:42:23,960
There's also places for you to
get free resources where you can

1676
01:42:23,960 --> 01:42:27,560
find podcast videos, classes,
and other presentations.

1677
01:42:28,080 --> 01:42:31,560
Also coming very soon there will
be a place for events where you

1678
01:42:31,560 --> 01:42:35,480
can list the events from your
organization so that you can get

1679
01:42:35,480 --> 01:42:39,200
the most out of that attendance.
Now this can be as big as you

1680
01:42:39,200 --> 01:42:41,200
want it to be.
It's all up to you guys out

1681
01:42:41,200 --> 01:42:44,000
there if you want to buy and
post things on here.

1682
01:42:44,640 --> 01:42:47,360
Now, if you're someone who
produces something that you feel

1683
01:42:47,360 --> 01:42:51,120
like others can benefit from,
1830 Mercantile is a place where

1684
01:42:51,120 --> 01:42:54,200
you can make all of those
products available for purchase.

1685
01:42:54,480 --> 01:42:56,520
All you need to do is drop me an
e-mail at

1686
01:42:56,520 --> 01:43:01,400
mormonrenegade@gmail.com and put
1830 in in the title of that

1687
01:43:01,400 --> 01:43:04,800
e-mail with a short message and
either myself or someone else

1688
01:43:04,800 --> 01:43:08,200
from the 1830 Mercantile team
will reach out to you so we can

1689
01:43:08,200 --> 01:43:09,960
get your product up there on the
site.

1690
01:43:10,440 --> 01:43:16,000
Now to make sure that all the
products that we offer are

1691
01:43:16,000 --> 01:43:19,640
affordable and to ensure that
the vast majority of the profits

1692
01:43:19,640 --> 01:43:24,840
go to the producer, the website
percentage is only three to 4%

1693
01:43:24,960 --> 01:43:27,400
of the total cost.
And that's just so I can pay the

1694
01:43:27,400 --> 01:43:30,360
pros that have created this
website and keep the lights on

1695
01:43:30,360 --> 01:43:33,840
the website itself.
Finally, by making some of your

1696
01:43:33,840 --> 01:43:37,160
purchases at 1830
mercantile.org, you'll be

1697
01:43:37,160 --> 01:43:40,480
supporting folks whose
principles and morals are close,

1698
01:43:40,520 --> 01:43:43,960
if not the same as yours.
At the same time not giving your

1699
01:43:43,960 --> 01:43:47,160
money away to people who stand
against everything you stand

1700
01:43:47,160 --> 01:43:49,200
for.
So no matter if you're looking

1701
01:43:49,200 --> 01:43:52,200
to make a purchase or you're a
seller that wants to get your

1702
01:43:52,200 --> 01:43:56,480
products listed, head on over to
1830 mercantile.org today.

1703
01:43:56,960 --> 01:44:00,080
Drop me an e-mail and we'll make
sure that we get back out to

1704
01:44:00,080 --> 01:44:01,680
you.
Now back to the show.

1705
01:44:02,880 --> 01:44:05,920
Gotcha.
So yeah.

1706
01:44:06,160 --> 01:44:07,440
Do you have anything else on
that?

1707
01:44:08,400 --> 01:44:11,720
No, that makes sense to me, man.
Awesome.

1708
01:44:11,720 --> 01:44:15,240
So what I was thinking might be
kind of fun would be to explore

1709
01:44:15,240 --> 01:44:20,680
Christian nationalism from their
own perspective, which I think

1710
01:44:20,680 --> 01:44:22,600
is which I think is the fairest
way to do it.

1711
01:44:22,600 --> 01:44:24,120
Right?
Rather than me telling you what

1712
01:44:24,120 --> 01:44:28,760
the Christian nationalists
believe and think, let's explore

1713
01:44:29,000 --> 01:44:31,080
their their ideas in their own
words.

1714
01:44:33,040 --> 01:44:38,560
And I'm hoping that we can kind
of go through this and kind of

1715
01:44:38,560 --> 01:44:42,360
stop part way, you know, stop as
we're going through and, you

1716
01:44:42,360 --> 01:44:44,360
know, discuss kind of what we're
looking at here.

1717
01:44:44,360 --> 01:44:48,480
A. 100%.
All right, so this is a this is

1718
01:44:48,480 --> 01:44:51,160
a little bit of a long clip.
If you want to stop at any time,

1719
01:44:51,160 --> 01:44:52,760
just let me know when we can
stop and discuss.

1720
01:44:53,200 --> 01:44:57,400
But this is this is a man Doug,
you you talked about him

1721
01:44:57,400 --> 01:45:02,360
earlier.
This is his take on Christian

1722
01:45:02,360 --> 01:45:04,800
nationalism mostly and I mostly
got clips of Doug Wilson.

1723
01:45:04,800 --> 01:45:09,760
The reason why I chose Doug
Wilson is because he is probably

1724
01:45:09,760 --> 01:45:13,720
the most moderate of the
Christian nationalists.

1725
01:45:14,080 --> 01:45:19,360
His version of Christian
nationalism is the most non

1726
01:45:19,360 --> 01:45:24,200
aggressive kind of, you know,
easiest to swallow.

1727
01:45:26,120 --> 01:45:31,320
And from from here it just goes,
oh, just crazy.

1728
01:45:31,480 --> 01:45:35,680
Honestly, Yeah.
I, you know, I want to say this

1729
01:45:35,680 --> 01:45:37,280
and, and people are going to
think I'm nuts.

1730
01:45:37,560 --> 01:45:40,000
I genuinely kind of like the
guy, right?

1731
01:45:40,000 --> 01:45:44,040
Like as I hear him talk, there's
nothing there that essentially

1732
01:45:44,040 --> 01:45:46,720
is like, I think he's super
evil.

1733
01:45:47,280 --> 01:45:51,760
I'm just like, that's a bad idea
because as I hear him talk, I

1734
01:45:51,760 --> 01:45:53,920
genuinely kind of like him.
But.

1735
01:45:53,920 --> 01:45:56,160
And there's a lot of things here
and, and this is one of the

1736
01:45:56,160 --> 01:45:57,640
things that makes it so
problematic.

1737
01:45:57,960 --> 01:46:00,440
There's so many things that
people of faith are going to be

1738
01:46:00,440 --> 01:46:03,000
like, yeah, yeah, that's what I
want to do.

1739
01:46:03,120 --> 01:46:04,800
Yeah.
And it's.

1740
01:46:04,840 --> 01:46:07,160
Like.
Slow your roll a little bit.

1741
01:46:07,160 --> 01:46:10,000
This isn't going to go how you
think so.

1742
01:46:10,000 --> 01:46:13,200
What does it really look like?
All right, so this is these

1743
01:46:13,200 --> 01:46:15,520
first ones are from an interview
he does with I, I think this

1744
01:46:15,520 --> 01:46:19,280
guy's name is Sam.
He's an atheist, but he's got

1745
01:46:19,280 --> 01:46:21,560
him, and he's trying to give him
a fair shake to just, hey,

1746
01:46:22,000 --> 01:46:23,920
floor's yours.
Tell us what Christian

1747
01:46:23,920 --> 01:46:26,280
nationalism is.
That's Sam Harris, right?

1748
01:46:26,680 --> 01:46:31,320
Sam Harris, yeah.
Yeah, Christian nationalism is

1749
01:46:31,640 --> 01:46:37,320
in in the short form is that is
the conviction that secularism

1750
01:46:37,560 --> 01:46:43,360
is a failed project.
The attempt to govern ourselves

1751
01:46:43,640 --> 01:46:48,480
without reference to a
transcendent reality is coming

1752
01:46:48,480 --> 01:46:50,520
up short.
And we're starting to see the

1753
01:46:50,520 --> 01:46:54,760
pieces fall off around us in a
number of different ways.

1754
01:46:55,280 --> 01:46:59,560
Post World War 2, the sort of
the, the Liberal Democratic

1755
01:46:59,560 --> 01:47:06,040
secular heyday, the high
watermark of Liberal Democratic

1756
01:47:06,040 --> 01:47:10,480
secularism, the United States
was king of the hill and

1757
01:47:10,480 --> 01:47:15,360
everything looked like Fukuyama
talked about the end of history.

1758
01:47:15,400 --> 01:47:17,360
You know, it looked like looked
like we've oops.

1759
01:47:18,840 --> 01:47:21,240
Was the video stopped?
It was stopped.

1760
01:47:21,600 --> 01:47:24,120
It got frozen somehow.
Sorry about that, let me try.

1761
01:47:24,560 --> 01:47:28,400
Average Christian guy is looking
at the world.

1762
01:47:28,880 --> 01:47:34,600
Christian guy is looking at the
world and he thinks everyone has

1763
01:47:34,600 --> 01:47:38,520
lost their ever loving mind.
What's, you know, what is going

1764
01:47:38,520 --> 01:47:42,200
on?
So Justice Jackson, the Supreme

1765
01:47:42,200 --> 01:47:46,440
Court couldn't answer the
question, what is a woman in her

1766
01:47:46,440 --> 01:47:49,880
confirmation hearings because
she's not a biologist, which is

1767
01:47:49,960 --> 01:47:52,560
to me like saying, I don't, I
don't know whether it's raining

1768
01:47:52,560 --> 01:47:54,960
or not because I'm not a
meteorologist.

1769
01:47:56,760 --> 01:47:58,720
But a lot of people looked at
that.

1770
01:47:58,720 --> 01:48:03,200
A lot of regular people looked
at that and it just they're just

1771
01:48:03,200 --> 01:48:06,160
left aghast.
And and they've come they've

1772
01:48:06,160 --> 01:48:10,640
come to the conclusion, many of
them that the secular project

1773
01:48:12,640 --> 01:48:17,960
has sort of done a face plant.
And particularly in the last

1774
01:48:17,960 --> 01:48:23,840
five years, where I travel in
circles where people believe

1775
01:48:24,080 --> 01:48:29,840
that virtually every respected
institution in America disgraced

1776
01:48:29,840 --> 01:48:33,680
itself in the last five in the
last five years, whether it was

1777
01:48:33,680 --> 01:48:37,840
the military or Congress or the
courts or higher education or

1778
01:48:37,840 --> 01:48:44,320
the OR the CDC or the military,
everything just came unstuck.

1779
01:48:44,640 --> 01:48:47,600
And so a lot of people don't
know what to believe anymore,

1780
01:48:47,600 --> 01:48:48,800
don't know what to think.
Don't.

1781
01:48:49,320 --> 01:48:55,480
I grew up in a high trust
society and we are now at the at

1782
01:48:55,480 --> 01:48:59,360
the dregs level, the basement
level of we're a low trust

1783
01:48:59,360 --> 01:49:03,360
society and then some doesn't.
Leave a lot right there for a

1784
01:49:03,360 --> 01:49:04,440
second.
Yep.

1785
01:49:05,280 --> 01:49:07,280
I want to point something out
here because it's something I

1786
01:49:07,280 --> 01:49:10,440
alluded to in that in that last
podcast I did when I was talking

1787
01:49:10,440 --> 01:49:15,480
about the monument, where I
talked about when you have, when

1788
01:49:15,480 --> 01:49:20,240
you lose faith in a society's
institutions, you have become

1789
01:49:20,360 --> 01:49:25,360
unanchored.
And Wilson is explaining exactly

1790
01:49:25,360 --> 01:49:28,720
what I was talking about, that
sentiment that he's talking

1791
01:49:28,720 --> 01:49:35,200
about there where he says, you
know, they've lost trust in the

1792
01:49:35,200 --> 01:49:39,280
last five years.
This is exactly what he's

1793
01:49:39,280 --> 01:49:41,560
talking about.
He cannot trust the

1794
01:49:41,560 --> 01:49:45,640
institution's anymore.
And so as a guy like Wilson

1795
01:49:45,640 --> 01:49:48,680
starts looking around, this is
the knee jerk reaction.

1796
01:49:49,080 --> 01:49:53,840
OK, this failed me.
The Bible hasn't, and that's

1797
01:49:53,840 --> 01:49:55,760
what we're going to go with.
And that's the law now.

1798
01:49:55,760 --> 01:49:59,320
That's what I'm pushing.
This is the danger in failing

1799
01:49:59,320 --> 01:50:01,120
institutions.
Sorry about that.

1800
01:50:01,120 --> 01:50:03,840
I just wanted to point that out.
No, exactly.

1801
01:50:04,320 --> 01:50:06,720
I, I completely relate with
everything he's saying right

1802
01:50:06,720 --> 01:50:10,360
here, right?
Like I, I, I completely, I get

1803
01:50:10,360 --> 01:50:12,880
this problem.
This makes so much sense.

1804
01:50:13,520 --> 01:50:15,680
But he's saying secularism
failed, right?

1805
01:50:17,680 --> 01:50:19,160
We need it.
We'll we'll dig a little bit

1806
01:50:19,160 --> 01:50:20,160
deeper into that here in a
minute.

1807
01:50:20,160 --> 01:50:23,640
Susceptible to conspiracy
theories and the latest thing

1808
01:50:23,640 --> 01:50:27,000
they read on the Internet and
other people.

1809
01:50:27,000 --> 01:50:31,720
It's opened them up to things
that we were saying 20 years ago

1810
01:50:31,720 --> 01:50:37,560
or 30 years ago about the
necessity of a confession that

1811
01:50:37,560 --> 01:50:40,720
Christ is Lord.
We need a transcendent grounding

1812
01:50:40,720 --> 01:50:44,440
for what we say we're going to
do as a people together.

1813
01:50:45,160 --> 01:50:47,440
And if we don't have that
transcendent grounding, then

1814
01:50:47,440 --> 01:50:51,720
everything comes apart in our
hands as it as it is doing so

1815
01:50:51,920 --> 01:50:56,000
the conviction that secularism
is a failed project and that

1816
01:50:56,000 --> 01:51:01,360
Christians need to be Christians
in public and say I, I believe

1817
01:51:01,360 --> 01:51:06,000
that what we need to do is
confess our dependence upon God

1818
01:51:06,240 --> 01:51:09,920
and upon his Son Jesus Christ
and Orient ourselves that way.

1819
01:51:10,040 --> 01:51:14,600
That's.
So real quick, right, I think

1820
01:51:14,600 --> 01:51:17,320
he's right about the solution to
right, Christ is the answer to

1821
01:51:17,320 --> 01:51:19,440
the problems.
We're seeing this this failing

1822
01:51:19,440 --> 01:51:24,480
of of the secular institutions,
but he's also saying we've got

1823
01:51:24,480 --> 01:51:30,800
to reject secularism and we also
need to be Christian in public

1824
01:51:30,800 --> 01:51:31,360
life.
Here's the thing.

1825
01:51:31,360 --> 01:51:35,040
I agree we do need to be
disciples of Christ in all areas

1826
01:51:35,040 --> 01:51:37,440
of our life, right?
You don't go in the public

1827
01:51:37,440 --> 01:51:41,320
square and now you, you've got
to, you know, hide your, hide

1828
01:51:41,320 --> 01:51:43,480
your religious beliefs.
You got to be silent.

1829
01:51:43,480 --> 01:51:48,800
I mean, again, that's, that's,
that's a, that, that in and of

1830
01:51:48,800 --> 01:51:53,000
itself would be a violation of,
of this idea of freedom of

1831
01:51:53,000 --> 01:51:55,720
religion, freedom of conscience,
to not be able to go out and

1832
01:51:55,720 --> 01:52:00,800
express your ideas.
But the the concern here is he's

1833
01:52:00,800 --> 01:52:03,760
saying secularism is the enemy,
right?

1834
01:52:03,760 --> 01:52:07,280
And this is a word that I think
often does get a lot of Flack

1835
01:52:07,520 --> 01:52:10,520
in, in religious circles, right?
We think secularism is a bad

1836
01:52:10,520 --> 01:52:12,160
thing.
The secular world, that's like

1837
01:52:12,160 --> 01:52:14,080
Babylon, right?
Secular is Babylon.

1838
01:52:16,080 --> 01:52:19,560
But we're going to get a
different definition here right

1839
01:52:19,560 --> 01:52:21,160
now.
And it's important to take a

1840
01:52:21,160 --> 01:52:23,720
look at that, this definition
and and we'll see that Doug

1841
01:52:23,720 --> 01:52:25,960
Wilson ultimately agrees with
this definition.

1842
01:52:26,680 --> 01:52:31,360
Before before you do that, I do
want to point out that again,

1843
01:52:31,400 --> 01:52:36,640
and and this is the the problem
with terms, right, unless you

1844
01:52:36,640 --> 01:52:38,840
define those terms before you
start something.

1845
01:52:39,120 --> 01:52:42,080
He says here we need to get
people to be disciples of

1846
01:52:42,080 --> 01:52:45,880
Christ.
Yeah, I agree with that 100%.

1847
01:52:46,160 --> 01:52:48,720
But.
His discipleship will look a lot

1848
01:52:48,720 --> 01:52:52,200
different than a Mormon's
discipleship, and I think that's

1849
01:52:52,200 --> 01:52:54,680
important to note.
Right.

1850
01:52:54,720 --> 01:52:57,000
Exactly.
And who's right?

1851
01:52:57,440 --> 01:53:00,520
Well, I think we're right, but
they think they're right.

1852
01:53:01,600 --> 01:53:02,960
So how are we going to resolve
this?

1853
01:53:04,440 --> 01:53:06,320
Right.
Right, here's the dichotomy.

1854
01:53:06,320 --> 01:53:09,000
Here's the true dichotomy.
How do you resolve that?

1855
01:53:09,040 --> 01:53:12,560
You got 2 choices, right?
One of them is we agree to

1856
01:53:12,560 --> 01:53:16,760
disagree.
The other is one of us picks up

1857
01:53:16,760 --> 01:53:20,120
a gun.
Those are.

1858
01:53:20,320 --> 01:53:22,960
That is it.
That is, those are the options.

1859
01:53:23,880 --> 01:53:27,880
Those are the options, right?
So what exactly is secularism?

1860
01:53:30,200 --> 01:53:32,920
And it's grin to disagree,
right?

1861
01:53:34,320 --> 01:53:37,280
The short form of saying
Christian nationalism.

1862
01:53:37,360 --> 01:53:39,600
OK, well, great.
Let me just make sure we're

1863
01:53:39,600 --> 01:53:42,920
dealing with the same definition
of secularism, because many

1864
01:53:42,920 --> 01:53:46,280
people confuse that term with
with atheism, right.

1865
01:53:46,280 --> 01:53:51,480
So secularism in my lexicon has
no implication of atheism.

1866
01:53:51,760 --> 01:53:54,160
It's simply an agreement.
And it's really born of the

1867
01:53:54,160 --> 01:53:58,920
Christian tradition, an
agreement to keep religion out

1868
01:53:58,920 --> 01:54:04,400
of politics and, and any kind of
in a coercive posture with

1869
01:54:04,400 --> 01:54:07,480
respect to, to public life.
So you can be a Christian in the

1870
01:54:07,480 --> 01:54:10,400
privacy of your life and in and
in your home.

1871
01:54:11,200 --> 01:54:14,400
I can be an atheist or a Muslim
or a Buddhist or whatever I want

1872
01:54:14,400 --> 01:54:18,080
to be.
And we agree that in the public

1873
01:54:18,360 --> 01:54:21,920
square, it's not that we're not
going to express our faith in

1874
01:54:21,920 --> 01:54:23,920
any conspicuous way.
You can wear whatever you want

1875
01:54:23,920 --> 01:54:25,080
to wear.
You can listen.

1876
01:54:25,080 --> 01:54:28,320
You know, you can, you can
announce that, that you guys are

1877
01:54:28,320 --> 01:54:32,320
celebrating on, on any given day
a certain, you know, holy

1878
01:54:32,720 --> 01:54:35,760
moment.
But with respect to the laws

1879
01:54:35,760 --> 01:54:40,040
that the government is going to
make and the requirements on

1880
01:54:40,040 --> 01:54:45,080
citizenry, those are going to be
basically agnostic with respect

1881
01:54:45,080 --> 01:54:48,560
to anyone's faith commitments.
That's that's how I think of

1882
01:54:48,560 --> 01:54:50,120
secularism.
And I could.

1883
01:54:51,400 --> 01:54:56,000
So that's the definition, right,
that that he's gives.

1884
01:54:56,000 --> 01:55:00,840
And Doug Wilson says, correct.
And he's going to go in and

1885
01:55:00,840 --> 01:55:02,440
double down on it.
But he's saying this is what

1886
01:55:02,440 --> 01:55:04,720
needs to be removed.
This is what is Christian

1887
01:55:04,720 --> 01:55:09,720
nationalism, opposition to
secularism, Secularism being

1888
01:55:09,720 --> 01:55:14,720
defined as we kind of agree to
disagree when it comes to

1889
01:55:15,880 --> 01:55:21,200
religion and government.
Become part way in agreeing with

1890
01:55:21,200 --> 01:55:24,400
you secular.
At first, I agree that secular

1891
01:55:24,400 --> 01:55:28,400
does not necessitate atheism.
For example, in the medieval

1892
01:55:28,400 --> 01:55:32,120
period, there were the regular
clergy who were living according

1893
01:55:32,120 --> 01:55:35,960
to monastic rule, and then there
were the secular clergy who were

1894
01:55:36,040 --> 01:55:39,240
who were out in the villages and
towns ministering to regular

1895
01:55:39,240 --> 01:55:42,520
people.
Also, there is secular life,

1896
01:55:43,720 --> 01:55:49,720
that is the word profane comes
from profanum outside the

1897
01:55:49,720 --> 01:55:52,760
temple.
So you could say there's a

1898
01:55:52,760 --> 01:55:55,880
sacred space.
And then if we're using this

1899
01:55:55,960 --> 01:56:00,320
lowercase S, there's the sacred
space, word and sacrament, the

1900
01:56:00,320 --> 01:56:03,280
worship services proper.
And then there's the secular

1901
01:56:03,280 --> 01:56:08,000
realm, which is the world of
automobile mechanics and

1902
01:56:08,160 --> 01:56:10,960
computer coding and just regular
life.

1903
01:56:11,280 --> 01:56:14,720
So I don't mind using the word
secular there in that sense.

1904
01:56:14,720 --> 01:56:19,080
And A and a Christian can be in
his secular life, a believer in

1905
01:56:19,080 --> 01:56:22,160
God and so on.
But secularism, the way I was

1906
01:56:22,280 --> 01:56:26,600
talking about the secular
project had to do with the the

1907
01:56:27,320 --> 01:56:30,680
way you just formulated it.
And here's this would be the.

1908
01:56:31,800 --> 01:56:33,600
So notice he's still agreeing,
right?

1909
01:56:33,960 --> 01:56:37,360
He's still agreeing with that
definition because it, it can be

1910
01:56:37,360 --> 01:56:41,040
hard to follow because, you
know, I, I like what he's saying

1911
01:56:41,040 --> 01:56:46,280
here, but this is what he's also
saying is the enemy the problem.

1912
01:56:46,280 --> 01:56:49,000
This is the, this is the, this
is the the, the problem that

1913
01:56:49,000 --> 01:56:50,520
Christian nationalism is going
to solve.

1914
01:56:51,800 --> 01:56:54,240
Thing that we find we're up
against, then what we disagree

1915
01:56:54,240 --> 01:56:56,640
with.
I believe that corporate

1916
01:56:56,640 --> 01:57:01,720
entities like nations, towns,
nations, cities, denominations,

1917
01:57:02,320 --> 01:57:09,440
universities are moral agents.
They they can launch genocidal

1918
01:57:09,440 --> 01:57:12,960
attacks, for example.
They can break treaties, they

1919
01:57:12,960 --> 01:57:16,640
can oppress A minority within
their boundaries.

1920
01:57:17,600 --> 01:57:21,000
A a university can break a
contract that they made with a a

1921
01:57:22,040 --> 01:57:23,840
professor, they can break their
word.

1922
01:57:24,120 --> 01:57:29,080
So individuals are moral agents,
but but when we come together to

1923
01:57:29,080 --> 01:57:33,080
act in concert, we are we remain
moral agents.

1924
01:57:33,600 --> 01:57:39,000
And when we come together as
Americans to make a moral, you

1925
01:57:39,000 --> 01:57:42,640
know, moral decision.
My very favorite question on in

1926
01:57:42,640 --> 01:57:47,640
this is by what standard?
Now, if you have the secular

1927
01:57:47,640 --> 01:57:53,080
space, we have to be agnostic
about our Islam or Hinduism or

1928
01:57:53,080 --> 01:57:59,560
Christianity or atheism, then
what possible moral standard

1929
01:58:00,120 --> 01:58:03,360
could we have?
Can we adopt if someone said,

1930
01:58:03,360 --> 01:58:06,160
well, how about utilitarianism?
I say, yeah, but I'm not a

1931
01:58:06,160 --> 01:58:09,040
utilitarian.
I I don't follow Jeremy Bentham

1932
01:58:09,040 --> 01:58:10,520
or John Stuart Mill.
Why?

1933
01:58:10,840 --> 01:58:15,760
You know, why do we do a lowest
common denominator morality and

1934
01:58:15,880 --> 01:58:19,200
and do we?
And what is permissible and not

1935
01:58:19,200 --> 01:58:23,360
permissible?
So, for example, is monogamy the

1936
01:58:23,480 --> 01:58:27,080
the norm because we live in a
downstream from a Christian

1937
01:58:27,080 --> 01:58:30,800
heritage?
Or if we bring in millions of

1938
01:58:30,800 --> 01:58:33,960
Muslims, do we go up to four
wives?

1939
01:58:33,960 --> 01:58:37,640
The way Muhammad taught is that?
Is that an option?

1940
01:58:38,560 --> 01:58:41,200
So what it was.
So basically, I think that we

1941
01:58:41,200 --> 01:58:45,960
have painted ourselves into a
corner with the the immigration

1942
01:58:45,960 --> 01:58:52,120
debate has slopped over into the
debate about how we make

1943
01:58:52,120 --> 01:58:55,440
collective moral choices because
it and it's frightfully

1944
01:58:55,440 --> 01:59:00,880
confusing because not all world
views generate the same moral

1945
01:59:00,880 --> 01:59:03,160
system.
And it places they're radically

1946
01:59:03,160 --> 01:59:08,520
at odds with one another.
And so if someone says, look,

1947
01:59:08,520 --> 01:59:12,160
why don't we just adopt the
morality of the average NPR

1948
01:59:12,160 --> 01:59:16,480
listener?
I'd say, well, I'm not, I don't

1949
01:59:16,480 --> 01:59:17,560
listen to NPR.
Why?

1950
01:59:18,200 --> 01:59:21,680
You know how are we going to
navigate this when we have?

1951
01:59:21,680 --> 01:59:24,000
I'm not sure I would sign on
that dotted line either.

1952
01:59:25,560 --> 01:59:29,200
OK, so there we have it, the
definition of Christian

1953
01:59:29,200 --> 01:59:33,360
nationalism.
First, first and foremost, given

1954
01:59:33,360 --> 01:59:35,920
my current marital status, I
don't think I'm getting a

1955
01:59:35,920 --> 01:59:37,720
Christmas card this year from
Doug Wilson.

1956
01:59:37,840 --> 01:59:39,520
I'm just going to throw that out
there right now.

1957
01:59:39,520 --> 01:59:42,960
I'm not going to hold my breath.
I don't think it's coming and

1958
01:59:42,960 --> 01:59:45,120
it's really sad.
I hear his Christmas card is the

1959
01:59:45,120 --> 01:59:54,280
the the pre eminent holiday
experience but oh dude man there

1960
01:59:54,280 --> 01:59:57,280
is so much there to unpack.
You want to take it first and

1961
01:59:57,280 --> 01:59:59,680
then I'll follow up.
Sure.

1962
01:59:59,720 --> 02:00:03,960
Well, so yeah, what he's saying
is Christian nationalism is we

1963
02:00:03,960 --> 02:00:07,400
are going to remove the secular
world, we're going to

1964
02:00:07,400 --> 02:00:12,480
Christianize the secular, which
what that means is we are going

1965
02:00:12,480 --> 02:00:17,320
to define a a state religion of.
Christianity, now he's got some

1966
02:00:17,320 --> 02:00:21,960
broad idea of like Protestantism
all coming together in harmony

1967
02:00:22,240 --> 02:00:26,000
in that regards.
But nonetheless, this is a, you

1968
02:00:26,000 --> 02:00:28,880
know, he asked, he begs the
question, well, by what moral

1969
02:00:28,880 --> 02:00:36,080
standard are we coming together
because things like polygamy

1970
02:00:36,480 --> 02:00:40,000
cannot be accepted.
Interesting.

1971
02:00:40,000 --> 02:00:43,640
Interesting choice to take,
especially as Mormons.

1972
02:00:43,640 --> 02:00:49,160
Again, what is what are the
Christian nationalists going to

1973
02:00:49,160 --> 02:00:51,880
do with Joseph Smith?
What are they going to do with

1974
02:00:51,880 --> 02:00:53,120
Brigham Young?
What are they going to do with

1975
02:00:53,120 --> 02:00:57,040
us?
You think they've already showed

1976
02:00:57,040 --> 02:00:58,200
us, right?
They weren't calling it

1977
02:00:58,200 --> 02:01:00,080
Christian nationalism back in
the day.

1978
02:01:00,480 --> 02:01:05,240
But if you listen, if you read
all the critiques of Mormonism

1979
02:01:05,240 --> 02:01:09,400
in those early days, it sounds a
lot, a lot like Christian

1980
02:01:09,400 --> 02:01:12,200
nationalism.
Right.

1981
02:01:13,040 --> 02:01:18,280
So this at face value, I think
you'd we can all see this does

1982
02:01:18,280 --> 02:01:23,480
not work with Mormonism because
it's directly hostile to

1983
02:01:23,480 --> 02:01:27,640
Mormonism for.
Yeah, I I do want to point

1984
02:01:27,640 --> 02:01:32,040
something else out here and, and
let me finish the whole thought

1985
02:01:32,040 --> 02:01:35,720
here because at first it may,
may, may stick in somebody's

1986
02:01:35,720 --> 02:01:38,400
head on what I'm saying.
So let me finish the thought

1987
02:01:38,400 --> 02:01:43,360
here.
I agree with Doug Wilson that

1988
02:01:43,360 --> 02:01:47,400
you should Christian you, you
should make holy your secular

1989
02:01:47,400 --> 02:01:49,640
life.
But let me explain what I mean.

1990
02:01:51,880 --> 02:01:54,480
I think that you can make your
work holy.

1991
02:01:55,600 --> 02:01:59,160
I think everything we do, we can
make holy and consecrated.

1992
02:02:00,320 --> 02:02:03,600
That doesn't mean that I force
everybody to recognize that

1993
02:02:03,600 --> 02:02:09,720
that's what I'm doing.
And so this idea that he puts

1994
02:02:09,720 --> 02:02:15,240
forward, I kind of agree with
him, but not to the ends that he

1995
02:02:15,240 --> 02:02:22,520
wants to take it.
He wants a mass almost like he

1996
02:02:22,520 --> 02:02:27,760
wants to, to, to make it to
where it's a litmus test, right?

1997
02:02:27,960 --> 02:02:31,520
You come in, you say the right
words to show you're, you're in

1998
02:02:31,520 --> 02:02:35,280
the right religious tribe.
And then from there we can do

1999
02:02:35,280 --> 02:02:38,560
business.
I'm of the opinion, no, we

2000
02:02:38,560 --> 02:02:39,920
can't.
We can get along just fine.

2001
02:02:39,960 --> 02:02:44,080
And I don't particularly care
what religion somebody is as

2002
02:02:44,080 --> 02:02:47,520
long as they do a good job.
That's been the great equalizer,

2003
02:02:48,160 --> 02:02:50,520
he said.
By what standard, right?

2004
02:02:50,520 --> 02:02:52,840
By what moral standard?
I don't know.

2005
02:02:53,040 --> 02:02:56,000
Why don't we go back to what we
were originally doing, right.

2006
02:02:56,240 --> 02:03:02,360
And when I say originally from
about the the revolution, with a

2007
02:03:02,360 --> 02:03:05,520
few exceptions, right, what what
happened to us as Mormons that

2008
02:03:05,520 --> 02:03:09,160
was that was kind of rough.
But by and large, just go back

2009
02:03:09,160 --> 02:03:13,200
to the regular civic standards
we had held for years because

2010
02:03:13,640 --> 02:03:16,680
that seemed to work really well.
And the other thing I want to

2011
02:03:16,680 --> 02:03:22,720
point out is he says in the last
five years, you know, a lot of

2012
02:03:22,720 --> 02:03:25,280
Americans have lost trust.
I get that.

2013
02:03:25,440 --> 02:03:30,280
I resonate with that, but you're
talking about throwing out the

2014
02:03:30,280 --> 02:03:39,560
last 190 or last 245 years over
Fab 5, bad, really bad years

2015
02:03:40,680 --> 02:03:43,080
before we throw the whole baby
out with the bathwater.

2016
02:03:43,080 --> 02:03:47,240
Let's look at this holistically
and ask the question, throughout

2017
02:03:47,240 --> 02:03:50,000
America's history, how well has
everything work that we've been

2018
02:03:50,000 --> 02:03:51,880
doing?
Have there been problems?

2019
02:03:52,200 --> 02:03:57,720
Sure.
And I think Mr. Wilson here is

2020
02:03:57,720 --> 02:04:00,520
missing something super
important.

2021
02:04:00,960 --> 02:04:04,920
And that was, we're never going
to have a perfect union till

2022
02:04:04,920 --> 02:04:08,760
Christ comes back, right?
What the founders say in order

2023
02:04:08,760 --> 02:04:13,240
to create a more perfect union,
and what I think they're missing

2024
02:04:13,240 --> 02:04:14,720
here.
And, and this has been one of my

2025
02:04:14,720 --> 02:04:19,000
contentions here, Christian
nationalism is the lazy shortcut

2026
02:04:19,000 --> 02:04:21,680
to missionary work.
Right.

2027
02:04:22,640 --> 02:04:26,400
Right, it's the lazy shortcut to
get the ultimate quest of Zion,

2028
02:04:27,240 --> 02:04:29,480
right?
OK, well, it's taken too long

2029
02:04:29,480 --> 02:04:32,800
winning hearts and minds, so
let's just do it by by force,

2030
02:04:33,160 --> 02:04:36,040
whatever force that takes.
Well, to be.

2031
02:04:36,040 --> 02:04:37,640
Important.
Oh, go ahead.

2032
02:04:38,080 --> 02:04:42,960
Well, to be fair to Doug and his
take on this, right, he is a

2033
02:04:42,960 --> 02:04:45,440
Calvin comes from a Calvinist
background, right?

2034
02:04:45,720 --> 02:04:48,920
And his take on Christian
nationalism is getting there

2035
02:04:48,920 --> 02:04:51,880
through doing the hard work,
which is why he expects it's

2036
02:04:51,880 --> 02:04:56,720
going to take 500 years.
So he's not there are absolutely

2037
02:04:56,720 --> 02:04:59,120
Christian nationalists saying
let's just do this at the barrel

2038
02:04:59,120 --> 02:05:02,880
of a gun and and forced
conversions.

2039
02:05:03,120 --> 02:05:07,800
He is adamantly against that in
how you get there.

2040
02:05:08,800 --> 02:05:10,920
But the there is the same there,
right?

2041
02:05:11,200 --> 02:05:13,600
So here's a really quick clip
where he just clarifies that.

2042
02:05:13,880 --> 02:05:17,440
But as a practical matter, I
don't believe reforms can be

2043
02:05:17,440 --> 02:05:20,920
instituted without significant
buy in from the people.

2044
02:05:21,280 --> 02:05:25,120
So that means out of the three
options, it's church planting,

2045
02:05:25,440 --> 02:05:28,160
it's evangelism, it's
discipleship.

2046
02:05:29,000 --> 02:05:30,920
So nothing different than we're
doing right now.

2047
02:05:31,400 --> 02:05:32,440
Nothing different than we're
doing.

2048
02:05:32,440 --> 02:05:34,320
Right now I think, I think it
needs to be accented, Doug, I'm

2049
02:05:34,320 --> 02:05:36,200
not.
I I don't think people are

2050
02:05:36,200 --> 02:05:38,440
hearing you that way.
Italicize it.

2051
02:05:38,520 --> 02:05:43,840
Italicize it.
So, yeah, I think that.

2052
02:05:43,840 --> 02:05:46,600
So that's a different interview.
That was, oh, shoot, what was

2053
02:05:46,600 --> 02:05:51,560
his name kind of somewhere.
Shoot, it's not there.

2054
02:05:52,240 --> 02:05:56,640
He's a, a, a, a Christian in
California, a preacher and he's

2055
02:05:56,640 --> 02:05:59,680
got his YouTube channel and
stuff.

2056
02:05:59,680 --> 02:06:02,320
And anyways, he knows his stuff
theologically.

2057
02:06:02,320 --> 02:06:04,520
And this is kind of the debate
he brought him on his and to

2058
02:06:04,520 --> 02:06:06,800
debate him because he has like
I've got as a Christian, I've

2059
02:06:06,800 --> 02:06:08,760
got serious concerns about
Christian nationalism.

2060
02:06:09,440 --> 02:06:11,800
So he invited the Doug on to to
have a debate with him.

2061
02:06:12,960 --> 02:06:16,120
And so as you see, Doug's,
Doug's take on this is we're

2062
02:06:16,120 --> 02:06:22,880
going to get there through the
hard work, but what is there a

2063
02:06:22,880 --> 02:06:26,440
place where everybody
voluntarily throws out the, the,

2064
02:06:26,760 --> 02:06:28,720
the 1st Amendment got?
You.

2065
02:06:29,640 --> 02:06:35,560
And you know, you know, there's
a fascinating connection between

2066
02:06:35,560 --> 02:06:40,000
Christian nationalism and
communism and socialism.

2067
02:06:40,560 --> 02:06:43,680
I mean, both of the, if you look
at it, Christian nationalism

2068
02:06:43,680 --> 02:06:47,280
and, and and and Marxism, right?
These are both revolutionary

2069
02:06:47,280 --> 02:06:55,880
ideas, they're both utopian,
they both have this predicted

2070
02:06:56,240 --> 02:06:58,600
place where everything, all the
problems are gone.

2071
02:06:58,600 --> 02:07:01,080
Everything's going to be great.
It's it's going to be heaven on

2072
02:07:01,080 --> 02:07:08,320
earth once we get there, right?
And Marx proposes, or it might

2073
02:07:08,320 --> 02:07:10,880
have been Lenin.
I, it's been a while since I've

2074
02:07:10,880 --> 02:07:15,040
studied communism, but there
were two paths presented to get

2075
02:07:15,040 --> 02:07:21,560
to that communist utopia for
the, the kind of third world

2076
02:07:21,560 --> 02:07:23,440
countries.
We're going to do it by

2077
02:07:23,440 --> 02:07:26,760
communism, which is political
coup.

2078
02:07:27,560 --> 02:07:30,920
And we see that the Bolshevik
revolution now all this stuff,

2079
02:07:30,920 --> 02:07:33,360
right?
Violent force, we're going to

2080
02:07:33,360 --> 02:07:37,160
get there through violent force.
Well, that wasn't the only idea

2081
02:07:37,440 --> 02:07:39,480
on how to get to that communist
utopia.

2082
02:07:40,440 --> 02:07:43,280
There was also this other plan
called socialism.

2083
02:07:45,880 --> 02:07:50,600
Same objective, like same
outcome is supposed to get

2084
02:07:50,600 --> 02:07:52,480
there, right?
But instead of doing a military

2085
02:07:52,480 --> 02:07:57,160
coup, socialism says let's use
democratic systems against

2086
02:07:57,160 --> 02:08:01,120
themselves.
We'll use the democratic process

2087
02:08:02,240 --> 02:08:08,960
to piece meal, implement what
will ultimately become a

2088
02:08:08,960 --> 02:08:11,440
communist government.
We'll get the people to buy in

2089
02:08:11,440 --> 02:08:13,680
and they'll voluntarily
surrender to this.

2090
02:08:17,640 --> 02:08:19,760
Who was it?
Ezra Taft Benson when he was

2091
02:08:19,760 --> 02:08:22,600
serving as the Secretary of
agriculture.

2092
02:08:23,040 --> 02:08:25,160
He has a real interesting
exchange.

2093
02:08:25,160 --> 02:08:29,040
He talks about in General
Conference of all places, where

2094
02:08:29,040 --> 02:08:31,280
he has an exchange with Nikita
Khrushchev.

2095
02:08:32,400 --> 02:08:36,600
And they were talking about
their different economic

2096
02:08:36,600 --> 02:08:39,760
systems, America's free market
system versus communism.

2097
02:08:40,720 --> 02:08:47,320
And Khrushchev says the natural
outcome is that someday your

2098
02:08:47,480 --> 02:08:50,800
grandkids or maybe even your
great, great grandkids are going

2099
02:08:50,800 --> 02:08:54,760
to live under communism.
And Benson, and I think,

2100
02:08:54,960 --> 02:08:58,120
honestly, I think this is a
moment where Benson has a moment

2101
02:08:58,160 --> 02:09:03,360
in which this will inform his
entire prophetic drive as he, as

2102
02:09:03,360 --> 02:09:05,640
he, you know, gets into that
office.

2103
02:09:06,920 --> 02:09:13,160
But Benson says, there's no way.
I've taught my kids and

2104
02:09:13,160 --> 02:09:16,280
Khrushchev just smiles at him
and says we're just going to

2105
02:09:17,040 --> 02:09:21,280
feed you dribs and drabs of
socialism until 1 morning you

2106
02:09:21,280 --> 02:09:27,560
wake up and it's communist and
that goes right along with what

2107
02:09:27,560 --> 02:09:29,720
you're saying there.
That is the game plan.

2108
02:09:30,560 --> 02:09:32,720
Right.
And so Doug Wilson's game plan

2109
02:09:32,720 --> 02:09:36,280
is, is that social?
We're going to do just bit by

2110
02:09:36,280 --> 02:09:40,280
bit Christian nationalism, step
by step until we get to the

2111
02:09:40,320 --> 02:09:44,440
place where we can have the
state coercion, the state

2112
02:09:44,440 --> 02:09:48,880
enforced Christianity, you know,
and another similarity here with

2113
02:09:48,880 --> 02:09:55,720
with communism, Who's in charge?
Who's in charge?

2114
02:09:56,200 --> 02:09:59,640
You know, in communism, well,
the people are in charge, right?

2115
02:09:59,640 --> 02:10:01,400
This is all for the people's
benefit.

2116
02:10:01,440 --> 02:10:03,840
The people are in charge.
Who's in charge of the Christian

2117
02:10:03,840 --> 02:10:05,760
national state?
Well, the Christians.

2118
02:10:06,320 --> 02:10:11,720
OK, which Christian?
The Baptist, the Presbyterian,

2119
02:10:12,600 --> 02:10:20,560
the Anglican, I mean the Quaker,
who's the the Mormon whose

2120
02:10:21,000 --> 02:10:25,120
Christianity is in charge?
Do you think?

2121
02:10:25,120 --> 02:10:28,920
That's the question, right.
And also, what does the world

2122
02:10:28,920 --> 02:10:30,680
look like?
What does this Christian

2123
02:10:30,680 --> 02:10:33,800
nationalist utopia look like
legally speaking?

2124
02:10:34,600 --> 02:10:37,160
This is another kind of
important area to go to because

2125
02:10:38,160 --> 02:10:41,080
again, the similarities with
communism, it sounds good on

2126
02:10:41,080 --> 02:10:48,320
paper, but when you look at it
and practice, not not so hot in

2127
02:10:48,320 --> 02:10:50,440
my at least in.
My opinion, not ideal.

2128
02:10:50,480 --> 02:10:53,160
Not, not, not the kind of world
I want to live in, right?

2129
02:10:54,440 --> 02:10:57,200
And I can't.
Wow, man, they just keep on

2130
02:10:57,200 --> 02:11:00,120
coming.
You know, also with communism

2131
02:11:00,120 --> 02:11:02,560
and socialism, right?
You know, you meet the, the, the

2132
02:11:02,680 --> 02:11:06,080
the stereotypical 20 year old
blue haired college student,

2133
02:11:06,720 --> 02:11:08,600
right?
We need to do communism.

2134
02:11:08,600 --> 02:11:10,800
Well, look, we've we've tried it
here, we've tried it here, we've

2135
02:11:10,800 --> 02:11:12,000
tried it here, we've tried it
here.

2136
02:11:12,000 --> 02:11:14,200
It's never, we just haven't done
it right.

2137
02:11:15,320 --> 02:11:16,560
It just hasn't been implemented
right?

2138
02:11:16,560 --> 02:11:19,800
It's never really been tried.
It's, it's just responsible for

2139
02:11:19,800 --> 02:11:22,320
more deaths in the in the 20th
century than anything else.

2140
02:11:22,320 --> 02:11:25,400
But we haven't really, it hasn't
gotten its fair shake yet.

2141
02:11:26,400 --> 02:11:29,200
Well, I, I'll be honest, I kind
of feel the same about Christian

2142
02:11:29,200 --> 02:11:31,280
nationalism to a certain degree.
You're saying.

2143
02:11:31,280 --> 02:11:34,480
Well, OK, yeah.
Well, the Puritans didn't do it

2144
02:11:34,480 --> 02:11:35,680
right.
The pilgrims, yeah, it didn't

2145
02:11:35,680 --> 02:11:36,800
work there because they didn't
do it right.

2146
02:11:36,800 --> 02:11:39,240
And the, and the, the English
Church, it didn't work there

2147
02:11:39,240 --> 02:11:42,400
because they didn't do it right.
And, and Calvin Geneva didn't

2148
02:11:42,400 --> 02:11:44,040
work there because they didn't
do it right.

2149
02:11:44,040 --> 02:11:46,880
And, and the, the Holy Roman
Empire, they just didn't do it

2150
02:11:46,880 --> 02:11:50,040
right.
But at a certain point you've

2151
02:11:50,040 --> 02:11:52,960
got to say, does this really
work?

2152
02:11:54,520 --> 02:11:59,080
Or are we just too enamored with
the potential outcome and we're

2153
02:11:59,080 --> 02:12:04,120
willing to just ignore what's
really what history shows us?

2154
02:12:05,640 --> 02:12:08,640
100%.
So let's take a look at what

2155
02:12:08,640 --> 02:12:10,920
what is the law?
What does life look like inside

2156
02:12:11,080 --> 02:12:13,080
the the Christian national
utopia?

2157
02:12:14,240 --> 02:12:18,880
And again, this is Doug Wilson.
He is the most tame mild of

2158
02:12:19,120 --> 02:12:21,200
these people that are out there
promoting.

2159
02:12:21,200 --> 02:12:24,720
We'll look at a couple, a couple
other ones afterwards, but this

2160
02:12:24,720 --> 02:12:27,680
is the tame take.
Oh, and so this is a this is a

2161
02:12:27,680 --> 02:12:31,280
question here.
He the the interviewer brings up

2162
02:12:31,280 --> 02:12:33,160
the question.
Sam says, So what about things

2163
02:12:33,160 --> 02:12:36,320
like, you know, blasphemy laws?
What about, you know, there's a

2164
02:12:36,320 --> 02:12:38,440
commandment?
And so this is another important

2165
02:12:38,440 --> 02:12:40,160
thing to understand, right?
And Christianity, there's two

2166
02:12:40,160 --> 02:12:44,800
different ideas.
There's a in Christian theology,

2167
02:12:44,800 --> 02:12:46,560
you have dispensationalism,
right?

2168
02:12:46,560 --> 02:12:48,240
And and and non
dispensationalism.

2169
02:12:49,200 --> 02:12:53,560
And what it comes down to is the
dispensationalist view Israel as

2170
02:12:53,560 --> 02:12:59,360
a special case that was, you
know, the Old Testament was kind

2171
02:12:59,360 --> 02:13:02,800
of God's law for them at that
time in their context.

2172
02:13:03,560 --> 02:13:09,240
And and then Christ comes and
and the gospel of Christ is a

2173
02:13:09,240 --> 02:13:13,640
new dispensation and therefore a
new covenant.

2174
02:13:13,640 --> 02:13:16,640
And therefore the stuff in the
Old Testament, we might be able

2175
02:13:16,640 --> 02:13:19,080
to learn a lot of really good
stuff from it still, but it

2176
02:13:19,080 --> 02:13:22,920
doesn't necessarily, it doesn't
apply, at least if it's not

2177
02:13:22,920 --> 02:13:24,840
reiterated in the new covenant.
OK.

2178
02:13:24,840 --> 02:13:26,520
And that's called
dispensationalism.

2179
02:13:27,000 --> 02:13:30,040
And I mean, honestly, I, I, I
tend to believe that this isn't

2180
02:13:30,040 --> 02:13:31,800
a universal idea.
I tend to believe that Mormon

2181
02:13:31,800 --> 02:13:35,240
theology leans heavier towards
dispensationalism than non

2182
02:13:35,240 --> 02:13:40,400
dispensationalism.
But obviously that's not, that's

2183
02:13:40,400 --> 02:13:43,840
not a universal idea.
But some of the stuff that

2184
02:13:43,840 --> 02:13:46,320
Joseph Smith, you know, you've
got stuff in doctor comments

2185
02:13:46,320 --> 02:13:49,280
about the law being a curse.
The children of Israel, we know

2186
02:13:49,280 --> 02:13:51,920
they didn't walk up to the
potential that was being given

2187
02:13:51,920 --> 02:13:57,840
them at Mount Sinai, right?
And, and Christ is talking about

2188
02:13:57,840 --> 02:14:01,440
a higher law.
And so I think it's pretty clear

2189
02:14:01,440 --> 02:14:04,520
there are maybe 2 standards
being represented here.

2190
02:14:05,600 --> 02:14:09,480
But regardless, so a lot of the
Christian nationalists, these

2191
02:14:09,480 --> 02:14:12,120
guys are tend to be non
denominational, non

2192
02:14:12,440 --> 02:14:15,840
dispensationalists.
And so again, what that means is

2193
02:14:15,840 --> 02:14:20,480
the Old Testament law is is, is
fully applicable today.

2194
02:14:21,760 --> 02:14:23,880
In fact, if you're going to
create this Christian

2195
02:14:23,880 --> 02:14:25,560
nationalist utopia, you need
laws.

2196
02:14:25,560 --> 02:14:27,720
And where do you find laws in
the Scripture to know what the

2197
02:14:27,720 --> 02:14:29,960
laws are supposed to be?
Old Testament.

2198
02:14:30,440 --> 02:14:33,440
Old Testament, Yeah.
And so this guy's like, well, in

2199
02:14:33,440 --> 02:14:36,520
Deuteronomy, it says that you
can kill your children if they

2200
02:14:36,520 --> 02:14:40,280
disobey you.
How does how does this work in a

2201
02:14:41,280 --> 02:14:45,760
in a Christian national state?
I think it's a good question, so

2202
02:14:45,760 --> 02:14:48,680
let's let's hear the answer.
If I were a Machiavellian, I

2203
02:14:48,680 --> 02:14:51,400
could build a huge website, no?
That's not the right one.

2204
02:14:51,680 --> 02:14:52,920
Sorry.
Let me find the right clip.

2205
02:14:52,920 --> 02:14:57,640
It's this clip.
So for a father and mother to

2206
02:14:57,640 --> 02:15:02,240
turn their a wastrel son over to
the authorities to be executed,

2207
02:15:02,520 --> 02:15:05,440
his behavior had to have been
really, really bad.

2208
02:15:05,800 --> 02:15:08,600
Well, well, well, let me let me
make it worse then.

2209
02:15:08,600 --> 02:15:11,520
So I mean, these these are all
killing offenses, if memory

2210
02:15:11,520 --> 02:15:14,520
serves, and Deuteronomy.
But let's say you're your

2211
02:15:14,520 --> 02:15:19,680
wayward son or daughter goes off
to a yoga class and decides that

2212
02:15:19,800 --> 02:15:22,680
they would really rather worship
the God Shiva.

2213
02:15:23,160 --> 02:15:28,040
And they come back and we can't
be discouraged from that

2214
02:15:28,040 --> 02:15:32,160
project.
And on top of that, they're gay.

2215
02:15:32,160 --> 02:15:33,960
On top of that, they want to
work on the Sabbath.

2216
02:15:34,760 --> 02:15:37,400
Give the compound error upon
error here.

2217
02:15:38,240 --> 02:15:41,320
Surely you can turn that child
over to the authorities for for

2218
02:15:41,320 --> 02:15:44,880
killing.
Yes, if all right, and here's

2219
02:15:44,960 --> 02:15:50,760
and this is the big if that we
talked about earlier, the when

2220
02:15:50,840 --> 02:15:53,960
Jesus had the woman caught in
adultery brought to him in the

2221
02:15:53,960 --> 02:16:00,520
Gospel of John.
What you have is a is a textbook

2222
02:16:00,520 --> 02:16:05,720
case of how you deal with that
kind of sin in a new covenant

2223
02:16:06,280 --> 02:16:08,800
way, right?
It's it's not that the sin is

2224
02:16:08,800 --> 02:16:14,160
OK, the sins, the sins not OK.
And you want to effectively deal

2225
02:16:14,160 --> 02:16:16,360
with it.
You, you, you want to, you don't

2226
02:16:16,360 --> 02:16:20,000
want to just say girls will be
girls or boys will be boys.

2227
02:16:20,440 --> 02:16:22,400
And you don't want to jolly it
along.

2228
02:16:22,800 --> 02:16:24,800
You want to actually deal with
it.

2229
02:16:25,280 --> 02:16:31,520
So coming down with sort of the
rough justice of Deuteronomy on,

2230
02:16:31,760 --> 02:16:37,200
you know, 1 little snide
remarked a mom and you're

2231
02:16:37,200 --> 02:16:41,480
executed or you or, or the yoga
class or that sort of thing.

2232
02:16:41,799 --> 02:16:45,639
That's not how I'd go back to
Romans 413.

2233
02:16:45,799 --> 02:16:50,080
That's not how the Kingdom of
God is established in the new

2234
02:16:50,080 --> 02:16:53,160
covenant.
In 2nd Corinthians 10, it says

2235
02:16:53,440 --> 02:16:56,719
we don't use carnal weapons.
So we don't, we don't try to

2236
02:16:56,719 --> 02:17:03,240
institute this regime by means
of knocking heads together or

2237
02:17:03,240 --> 02:17:06,959
punishing people is simply not.
I just want to be clear here.

2238
02:17:06,959 --> 02:17:11,680
So what he's saying is we don't
use that to get there, but he's

2239
02:17:11,680 --> 02:17:13,760
not saying that that's not where
there is.

2240
02:17:14,840 --> 02:17:17,320
I was going to say, it sounds
like he's having it both ways

2241
02:17:17,320 --> 02:17:19,120
here a little bit.
He's trying to have it both

2242
02:17:19,120 --> 02:17:22,840
ways, but what he's saying is
we're not going to use that to

2243
02:17:22,840 --> 02:17:25,240
get to the Christian nationalist
utopia.

2244
02:17:25,959 --> 02:17:28,600
But once we're in the utopia,
that might be the thing.

2245
02:17:28,879 --> 02:17:30,480
But.
Once we're in the utopia, that

2246
02:17:30,480 --> 02:17:32,480
has to be the thing, right?
It's, it's in the law.

2247
02:17:34,000 --> 02:17:35,400
That's why he's like, you got to
kill him.

2248
02:17:35,400 --> 02:17:39,480
And his first he's like, yes.
And now he's kind of tangent,

2249
02:17:39,480 --> 02:17:40,559
right?
He's it's a bit, a little bit

2250
02:17:40,559 --> 02:17:44,360
evasive here, but maybe he's
just trying to clarify his point

2251
02:17:44,920 --> 02:17:46,920
because it sounds like he's
saying that's not what we're

2252
02:17:46,920 --> 02:17:49,480
going to do.
But what he's saying is that's

2253
02:17:49,480 --> 02:17:50,600
not how we're going to get
there.

2254
02:17:51,760 --> 02:17:53,080
So you got to you got to pay
attention.

2255
02:17:53,520 --> 02:17:56,240
So I mean, I'm going to continue
with his answer here unless you

2256
02:17:56,240 --> 02:17:57,639
got something else.
Nope.

2257
02:17:58,200 --> 02:18:00,639
OK.
The way it comes about now,

2258
02:18:00,639 --> 02:18:04,799
once, once it's established,
once that everybody acknowledges

2259
02:18:05,160 --> 02:18:08,200
the authority of God's word and
we're living in this Republic

2260
02:18:08,520 --> 02:18:12,480
and someone sins in a high
handed way.

2261
02:18:12,879 --> 02:18:16,200
I, I can see that it's going to
have an impact on the laws.

2262
02:18:16,200 --> 02:18:21,360
And I can see that at some point
certain high handed rebellions

2263
02:18:21,360 --> 02:18:25,040
would be dealt with that way.
And it says in Proverbs, if you

2264
02:18:25,040 --> 02:18:27,920
strike the fool, the simple
learn wisdom.

2265
02:18:28,240 --> 02:18:33,120
So if someone is guilty of
outlandish behavior, you know,

2266
02:18:33,120 --> 02:18:38,760
let's say a priest molesting
altar boys and, and in that

2267
02:18:38,760 --> 02:18:43,559
setting, that person is executed
for it, That's going to steady a

2268
02:18:43,559 --> 02:18:45,760
lot of people up.
Yes, so.

2269
02:18:46,639 --> 02:18:48,040
So it's kind of not the example
though, right?

2270
02:18:48,040 --> 02:18:51,559
The guy gave an example.
I think everybody agrees that.

2271
02:18:51,600 --> 02:18:54,280
Well, maybe not everybody, but I
think most people probably be

2272
02:18:54,280 --> 02:18:59,040
at, if not, if not life in
prison, execution for child

2273
02:18:59,040 --> 02:19:01,440
abuse should probably be a
thing, right?

2274
02:19:03,360 --> 02:19:06,840
I think that's something that
through through natural law

2275
02:19:06,840 --> 02:19:10,600
understanding, you know, through
utilitarianism, we have come to

2276
02:19:10,600 --> 02:19:15,000
that conclusion already.
That's not what's worrying,

2277
02:19:15,080 --> 02:19:16,879
right?
That's not what worries me about

2278
02:19:17,120 --> 02:19:20,600
this implementation of
Deuteronomy.

2279
02:19:21,520 --> 02:19:24,160
Right, right.
And look, this is a this is a

2280
02:19:24,160 --> 02:19:27,320
Mormon show, right?
And so look, I think the

2281
02:19:27,320 --> 02:19:31,520
question has to be asked, what
beliefs do we hold that they're

2282
02:19:31,520 --> 02:19:35,040
going to consider so blasphemous
that if we're in that Christian

2283
02:19:35,719 --> 02:19:40,480
nationalist government, what
beliefs do you have that are are

2284
02:19:41,120 --> 02:19:44,680
stoning offenses, right.
Probably our marriage practices,

2285
02:19:44,840 --> 02:19:48,240
our views on God, our views on
Scripture, our view on authority

2286
02:19:48,240 --> 02:19:52,200
and priesthood go down the list
like it doesn't.

2287
02:19:52,200 --> 02:19:55,760
Historically, all of those
things are, are, are are

2288
02:19:55,760 --> 02:20:00,040
executionable offenses in the
history of of the application of

2289
02:20:00,040 --> 02:20:01,920
Christian nationalism.
Yep.

2290
02:20:02,560 --> 02:20:05,480
And the other thing I want to
point out, and it was a sneaky

2291
02:20:05,480 --> 02:20:08,080
tactic he employed there.
You kind of mentioned it.

2292
02:20:09,760 --> 02:20:17,320
Harris is very clear that he is.
He was very specific in what he

2293
02:20:17,320 --> 02:20:19,200
named there, right?
Right.

2294
02:20:19,480 --> 02:20:23,240
Because he wanted to make sure,
look, this isn't about molesting

2295
02:20:23,240 --> 02:20:24,680
a kid.
This isn't about killing

2296
02:20:24,680 --> 02:20:27,440
somebody.
This is about your son or

2297
02:20:27,440 --> 02:20:35,840
daughter converting to Shiva.
And to prove his point, Wilson

2298
02:20:35,840 --> 02:20:38,880
takes it to the absolute extreme
and hurting a child.

2299
02:20:39,440 --> 02:20:42,320
And like you were saying, very
few of us are going to have a

2300
02:20:42,320 --> 02:20:47,920
problem with that.
But keep in mind that at some

2301
02:20:47,920 --> 02:20:50,320
point we are going to get to
there.

2302
02:20:50,560 --> 02:20:54,000
There's no way you can't.
If they get to implement it, at

2303
02:20:54,000 --> 02:20:57,480
some point it is going to be the
things of like being

2304
02:20:57,480 --> 02:21:03,040
disrespectful to your parents,
being blasphemous in one of your

2305
02:21:03,040 --> 02:21:05,240
beliefs that will get you to
that point.

2306
02:21:06,440 --> 02:21:08,040
Yeah, yeah.
And he's not denied.

2307
02:21:08,040 --> 02:21:09,960
That's that's basically what
he's saying here, right?

2308
02:21:09,960 --> 02:21:13,120
And it can be a little tricky
because, again, he kind of tries

2309
02:21:13,120 --> 02:21:15,320
to win you over by using a
different example.

2310
02:21:15,760 --> 02:21:19,520
And he also kind of downplays
the significance of that by

2311
02:21:19,520 --> 02:21:21,560
saying, well, we're not going to
use that to get there.

2312
02:21:21,640 --> 02:21:24,640
But what is the vision of the
utopian Christian nationalism?

2313
02:21:25,320 --> 02:21:29,120
It's a world where parents can
take their child and have them

2314
02:21:29,600 --> 02:21:37,840
put to death for disobedience.
And I don't care what that

2315
02:21:37,840 --> 02:21:44,160
disobedience means, right?
There is no justification ever

2316
02:21:45,000 --> 02:21:51,760
to execute one of your children
because they have different

2317
02:21:51,760 --> 02:21:54,760
beliefs.
Yeah.

2318
02:21:55,120 --> 02:21:57,080
That that's not a world we can
live in.

2319
02:21:57,200 --> 02:21:58,840
But that's the example that he's
giving.

2320
02:21:59,000 --> 02:22:01,360
And.
And yeah, Doug's like, yeah,

2321
02:22:01,360 --> 02:22:05,880
that's in the extreme cases
we're going to.

2322
02:22:05,880 --> 02:22:07,440
That's where we got it.
We have to do that.

2323
02:22:07,680 --> 02:22:12,800
What I heard you say there, I
think is you invoke this notion,

2324
02:22:12,800 --> 02:22:15,520
this kind of pragmatic notion of
incrementalism.

2325
02:22:15,520 --> 02:22:17,040
How do we get from here to
there?

2326
02:22:17,040 --> 02:22:22,840
But once we get there, it sounds
like the the sanction for

2327
02:22:22,840 --> 02:22:28,040
transgression will be quite a
bit clearer, right?

2328
02:22:28,040 --> 02:22:31,240
And biblical.
I'm I'm not going to one of the

2329
02:22:31,240 --> 02:22:35,400
things one of my baseline
convictions is I'm not going to

2330
02:22:35,400 --> 02:22:39,840
apologize for any sanction
that's clearly in the Bible.

2331
02:22:40,200 --> 02:22:44,920
So when, when these when these
judgments fell on people back in

2332
02:22:44,920 --> 02:22:49,040
Moses, Israel, right, when the
man there was a man who was

2333
02:22:49,040 --> 02:22:53,160
executed for picking up sticks
on the Sabbath, I'm not going to

2334
02:22:53,160 --> 02:22:55,760
apologize for that.
That was holy, righteous and

2335
02:22:55,760 --> 02:22:58,240
good.
When someone was executed for

2336
02:22:58,240 --> 02:23:00,880
the various offenses you
mentioned back then, that was

2337
02:23:00,880 --> 02:23:03,520
holy, righteous and good.
So I'm not going to apologize

2338
02:23:03,760 --> 02:23:09,840
for anything in the Bible.
OK, we've got to talk about

2339
02:23:09,840 --> 02:23:16,440
this, right?
You follow Christian nationalism

2340
02:23:20,280 --> 02:23:22,880
and you apply that back to Jesus
as a day.

2341
02:23:23,920 --> 02:23:27,960
You're killing Jesus and his
apostles as soon as they eat the

2342
02:23:27,960 --> 02:23:32,640
corn on on the Sabbath.
Yeah, yeah.

2343
02:23:34,240 --> 02:23:35,680
But that's.
Talking about it, but.

2344
02:23:36,400 --> 02:23:38,880
That's OK, because it it,
because, you know, we've got

2345
02:23:38,880 --> 02:23:40,520
these stories in, in the Old
Testament.

2346
02:23:41,600 --> 02:23:47,440
So, so Protestants believe in
this thing called Sola

2347
02:23:47,440 --> 02:23:53,040
scriptura, right?
They have this view of the Bible

2348
02:23:53,040 --> 02:23:58,200
that says it is inerrant.
And the, the, the Calvinists

2349
02:23:58,200 --> 02:24:01,480
particularly have this idea that
you can find that they, the

2350
02:24:01,480 --> 02:24:03,840
Bible has the answers to every
question.

2351
02:24:05,080 --> 02:24:09,720
Now, I love that approach, but I
think you can take it to an

2352
02:24:09,720 --> 02:24:14,160
extreme as well, right?
So what do we believe as Mormons

2353
02:24:14,160 --> 02:24:20,720
about the Bible?
That is true and translate.

2354
02:24:20,800 --> 02:24:24,520
You know it's true, and as far
as it's translated correctly per

2355
02:24:24,520 --> 02:24:27,080
Joseph Smith.
And as far as it's translated

2356
02:24:27,080 --> 02:24:32,240
correctly, and so I'll be
honest, I have, I do have issues

2357
02:24:32,240 --> 02:24:35,040
with some of the stuff that I
have found in the Old Testament,

2358
02:24:36,040 --> 02:24:39,000
some of these laws like this one
of, of taking children to be

2359
02:24:39,000 --> 02:24:41,200
executed for disobedience to the
parents.

2360
02:24:44,280 --> 02:24:49,680
I don't, I don't see a very good
explanation for how that can be

2361
02:24:49,680 --> 02:24:54,640
the same God that sends his Son
Jesus Christ to teach what he

2362
02:24:54,640 --> 02:24:59,720
taught.
And I think that that's a very,

2363
02:25:02,920 --> 02:25:04,840
we don't know the specifics,
right?

2364
02:25:04,840 --> 02:25:09,200
But I think this idea of that
maybe maybe the Old Testament

2365
02:25:09,200 --> 02:25:13,720
and New Testament aren't the
most reliable things in the

2366
02:25:13,720 --> 02:25:16,400
world.
That's kind of a Mormonism.

2367
02:25:17,520 --> 02:25:21,360
I think that really is kind of
one of one of our core tenants.

2368
02:25:22,320 --> 02:25:25,600
And in fact, I, I wanted to go
to the scriptures on this

2369
02:25:25,880 --> 02:25:29,520
because interestingly enough,
and I, I wanted to maybe do some

2370
02:25:29,520 --> 02:25:32,600
more scripture stuff later.
But we have this whole story

2371
02:25:32,600 --> 02:25:38,360
playing out here in the Book of
Mormon in first Nephi chapter

2372
02:25:38,360 --> 02:25:41,520
13, we've got Nephi and he's
having that vision that his

2373
02:25:41,520 --> 02:25:43,480
father had, right?
And he's being guided around by

2374
02:25:43,480 --> 02:25:46,600
an Angel and he's seeing
everything he sees, he sees

2375
02:25:47,920 --> 02:25:51,160
Christ's ministry and he sees
our days.

2376
02:25:51,760 --> 02:25:56,040
And in the process of that, in
chapter 13, it says in verse 10.

2377
02:25:56,040 --> 02:25:59,120
And it came to pass that I
looked and beheld many waters,

2378
02:25:59,280 --> 02:26:02,120
and they divided the Gentiles
from the seed of my brethren.

2379
02:26:02,640 --> 02:26:05,360
And it came to pass that the
Angel said unto me, Behold, the

2380
02:26:05,360 --> 02:26:07,600
wrath of God is upon the seed of
thy brethren.

2381
02:26:07,960 --> 02:26:10,600
The brethren there would be the
the Lamanites, the Indians.

2382
02:26:11,720 --> 02:26:14,640
And I looked and beheld a man
among the Gentiles who was

2383
02:26:14,640 --> 02:26:17,800
separated from the seed of my
brethren by the many waters.

2384
02:26:17,800 --> 02:26:20,760
And I beheld the step, the
Spirit of God, that it came down

2385
02:26:20,760 --> 02:26:24,080
and wrought upon the man, and he
went forth upon many waters,

2386
02:26:24,080 --> 02:26:26,280
even unto the seat of my
brethren who were in the

2387
02:26:26,280 --> 02:26:28,280
promised land.
Who is this?

2388
02:26:30,200 --> 02:26:33,520
It's, it's Columbus, right,
Right.

2389
02:26:33,560 --> 02:26:36,120
Yeah.
The Spirit falls upon him, and

2390
02:26:36,120 --> 02:26:37,640
he gets and he has this
inspiration.

2391
02:26:37,640 --> 02:26:39,440
He wants to go, and he finds the
promised land.

2392
02:26:41,320 --> 02:26:43,680
And it came to pass that he
beheld the Spirit of God, that

2393
02:26:43,680 --> 02:26:46,320
it wrought upon other Gentiles,
and they went forth out of

2394
02:26:46,320 --> 02:26:48,920
captivity upon many waters.
Who are these that.

2395
02:26:48,920 --> 02:26:51,160
Would be the Pilgrims and the
Puritans.

2396
02:26:51,640 --> 02:26:53,840
Right, right.
So I mean, this is, this is a

2397
02:26:53,840 --> 02:26:55,720
good thing to review anyways,
right, Because we were just

2398
02:26:55,720 --> 02:26:58,520
talking about or you were just
talking about, you know, the,

2399
02:26:58,560 --> 02:27:00,920
the Puritans and the, or the
pilgrims, right, and the

2400
02:27:00,920 --> 02:27:05,480
separatists the other day.
So let's see what the Book of

2401
02:27:05,480 --> 02:27:10,520
Mormon has to say about them.
And I looked, and beheld a man

2402
02:27:10,520 --> 02:27:15,080
among the Oh, wait, Brown Spot
14 And it came to pass that I

2403
02:27:15,080 --> 02:27:18,200
beheld many multitudes of the
Gentiles upon the land of

2404
02:27:18,200 --> 02:27:22,160
promise, And I beheld the wrath
of God that it was upon the seat

2405
02:27:22,160 --> 02:27:24,920
of my brethren, and they were
scattered before the Gentiles,

2406
02:27:24,920 --> 02:27:27,640
and were smitten.
Sorry, Mitiga.

2407
02:27:31,600 --> 02:27:33,840
Daddy's worthy.
But sorry, I couldn't help

2408
02:27:33,840 --> 02:27:36,120
myself.
Look at that if you.

2409
02:27:36,120 --> 02:27:38,000
Need to.
I think I might just leave that

2410
02:27:38,000 --> 02:27:40,000
in unless you really want me to
take it out.

2411
02:27:41,680 --> 02:27:43,400
All right.
So, yeah.

2412
02:27:43,400 --> 02:27:47,120
What, what the, the, the, the
Indians were naughty, right?

2413
02:27:47,400 --> 02:27:50,200
And God is letting the Gentiles
scatter them.

2414
02:27:53,000 --> 02:27:56,280
And I beheld the spirit of the
Lord that it was upon the

2415
02:27:56,280 --> 02:27:59,240
Gentiles, and they did prosper
and obtain the land for their

2416
02:27:59,240 --> 02:28:00,760
inheritance.
And I beheld that they were

2417
02:28:00,760 --> 02:28:03,520
white, and exceedingly fair and
beautiful, and they were like

2418
02:28:03,520 --> 02:28:05,200
unto my people before they were
slain.

2419
02:28:05,880 --> 02:28:08,560
So these are the, these are the
English people, right?

2420
02:28:10,160 --> 02:28:13,480
The Pilgrims, the Puritans, and
it came to pass that I, Nephi,

2421
02:28:13,480 --> 02:28:17,080
beheld that the Gentiles who had
gone forth out of captivity did

2422
02:28:17,080 --> 02:28:19,880
humble themselves before the
Lord, and the power of the Lord

2423
02:28:19,880 --> 02:28:23,880
was with them.
Wine on right.

2424
02:28:23,960 --> 02:28:26,400
We just, we just heard about
these miracles.

2425
02:28:27,240 --> 02:28:29,440
Right.
And I beheld that their mother

2426
02:28:29,440 --> 02:28:32,240
Gentiles were gathered together
upon the waters and upon the

2427
02:28:32,240 --> 02:28:34,320
land also to battle against
them.

2428
02:28:34,320 --> 02:28:38,120
Now we're into the Revolutionary
War and I.

2429
02:28:38,440 --> 02:28:41,000
Shall be able to withstand 1000
of our enemies.

2430
02:28:41,680 --> 02:28:44,720
Right, right.
Yeah, It's just so amazing how

2431
02:28:44,720 --> 02:28:48,200
prophetic that time was, right?
I mean, the people in that day

2432
02:28:48,200 --> 02:28:51,920
were prophets, you know, maybe
lowercase P but nonetheless,

2433
02:28:52,520 --> 02:28:56,480
honestly, I'd almost even say
maybe uppercase Pi mean some

2434
02:28:56,480 --> 02:28:59,160
amazing people came in that time
of history.

2435
02:28:59,880 --> 02:29:06,600
Absolutely a time of many great
prophets and I'd beheld that the

2436
02:29:06,600 --> 02:29:09,760
power of God was with them and
also the wrath of God, whereupon

2437
02:29:09,760 --> 02:29:12,360
all those who were gathered
together against them to battle.

2438
02:29:12,760 --> 02:29:16,240
And I, Nephi, beheld that the
Gentiles that had gone forth out

2439
02:29:16,240 --> 02:29:18,840
of captivity were delivered by
the power of God out of the

2440
02:29:18,840 --> 02:29:22,120
hands of all other nations.
So this is, this is God

2441
02:29:22,120 --> 02:29:24,760
establishing us as a covenant
people, right?

2442
02:29:24,880 --> 02:29:28,040
Just like they said we are.
This is a covenant land and that

2443
02:29:28,040 --> 02:29:31,200
is undeniable.
I mean, that aspect of Christian

2444
02:29:31,200 --> 02:29:35,840
nationalism they do have, right,
that this is a covenant land,

2445
02:29:35,880 --> 02:29:43,400
that we are a blessed people
inasmuch inasmuch as we obey

2446
02:29:43,400 --> 02:29:46,720
God's laws.
But here's the question, right?

2447
02:29:46,880 --> 02:29:49,520
Here's the rub.
What are those laws?

2448
02:29:49,520 --> 02:29:51,800
Because we just saw Doug Wilson
say that he's going to outlaw

2449
02:29:51,800 --> 02:29:54,120
Mormonism.
We just saw Calvin say that he's

2450
02:29:54,120 --> 02:29:56,600
going to outlaw Mormonism.
We saw the the pilgrims, we're

2451
02:29:56,600 --> 02:29:58,600
going to, we're going to kill
Joseph Smith.

2452
02:30:00,920 --> 02:30:04,640
What are those laws?
Well, I think that's exactly

2453
02:30:04,640 --> 02:30:09,680
what Nephi wants to answer next.
What are those laws?

2454
02:30:10,200 --> 02:30:12,280
Because that is the question to
ask at this point.

2455
02:30:12,880 --> 02:30:14,920
And it came to pass that I,
Nephi, beheld that they did.

2456
02:30:15,080 --> 02:30:17,520
Oh, I read that part.
And the Angel, you know they

2457
02:30:17,520 --> 02:30:19,000
didn't.
OK, Verse 20.

2458
02:30:19,000 --> 02:30:21,120
And it came to pass that I,
Nephi, beheld that they did

2459
02:30:21,120 --> 02:30:23,760
prosper in the land.
And I beheld a book, and it was

2460
02:30:23,760 --> 02:30:26,560
scattered forth among them.
Oh, a book.

2461
02:30:28,160 --> 02:30:30,680
An Angel said unto me, Knowest
thou the meaning of the book?

2462
02:30:31,120 --> 02:30:36,280
And I said unto him, I know not.
And he said, behold, it

2463
02:30:36,280 --> 02:30:39,080
proceedeth out of the mouth of a
Jew.

2464
02:30:39,480 --> 02:30:42,000
Notice it's a Jew.
Singular, right?

2465
02:30:42,160 --> 02:30:44,680
I find that very interesting
actually.

2466
02:30:44,680 --> 02:30:48,120
I don't actually believe in the
documentary hypothesis, at least

2467
02:30:48,120 --> 02:30:51,720
certainly not it's presented by
the by the secularists and the

2468
02:30:51,720 --> 02:30:55,000
academics.
But this almost sounds like

2469
02:30:55,040 --> 02:31:00,000
there was a Jew that's maybe
responsible for compiling this

2470
02:31:00,000 --> 02:31:03,120
book because it says it comes
forth out of the mouth of a Jew.

2471
02:31:03,280 --> 02:31:06,760
Well, you know, Micah and Isaiah
and Jeremiah, these were not the

2472
02:31:06,760 --> 02:31:13,360
same Jew.
So I'm thinking this is a

2473
02:31:14,040 --> 02:31:17,680
version of the Bible, a
collection of sacred writing.

2474
02:31:19,200 --> 02:31:21,120
It proceedeth out of the mouth
of a Jew.

2475
02:31:21,400 --> 02:31:23,920
And I, Nephi, beheld it.
And he said unto me, The book

2476
02:31:23,920 --> 02:31:26,120
that thou beholdest is the
record of the Jews, which

2477
02:31:26,120 --> 02:31:29,320
contains the covenants of the
Lord, which he hath made unto

2478
02:31:29,320 --> 02:31:33,080
the House of Israel.
And it also contains many of the

2479
02:31:33,080 --> 02:31:36,240
prophecies of the holy prophets.
And it is a record like unto the

2480
02:31:36,240 --> 02:31:38,480
engravings which were upon the
plates of brass, save there are

2481
02:31:38,480 --> 02:31:41,520
not so many.
Nevertheless they contain the

2482
02:31:41,520 --> 02:31:44,040
covenants of the Lord, which He
hath made unto the House of

2483
02:31:44,040 --> 02:31:47,000
Israel, wherefore they are of
great worth unto the Gentiles.

2484
02:31:47,160 --> 02:31:50,560
So this is great, right?
This is a really important book.

2485
02:31:51,160 --> 02:31:54,120
If they didn't have this book,
they probably wouldn't be able

2486
02:31:54,120 --> 02:31:57,360
to be there 'cause they wouldn't
understand the covenants, right?

2487
02:31:57,360 --> 02:32:01,560
They're not there to create
this, this city on a hill

2488
02:32:02,000 --> 02:32:04,360
without an understanding of
those covenants.

2489
02:32:04,360 --> 02:32:08,480
So they wouldn't have come if it
that they didn't have this book

2490
02:32:08,480 --> 02:32:10,080
and these covenants.
So that's a good thing.

2491
02:32:11,120 --> 02:32:17,400
But 24 An Angel said unto, said
unto me, That was beheld, that

2492
02:32:17,400 --> 02:32:21,240
the book proceedeth forth from
the mouth of a Jew, and when it

2493
02:32:21,240 --> 02:32:25,280
proceedeth forth from the mouth
of a Jew, it contained the

2494
02:32:25,280 --> 02:32:28,000
fullness of the gospel of the
Lord.

2495
02:32:28,560 --> 02:32:30,160
Justin, can I stop you right
there?

2496
02:32:30,240 --> 02:32:33,000
Because you you said something
about and I found it

2497
02:32:33,000 --> 02:32:35,600
interesting, right?
And look, I'm not trying to

2498
02:32:35,600 --> 02:32:37,520
trash talk a whole section of
people.

2499
02:32:37,520 --> 02:32:40,760
I'm trying to point out that
Joseph Smith is consistent in

2500
02:32:40,760 --> 02:32:43,520
this.
So when you say a Jew, I want to

2501
02:32:43,520 --> 02:32:46,200
take you to the King Follett
discourse because he says it

2502
02:32:46,200 --> 02:32:53,280
again, OK, He says it says in
the King Follett discourse,

2503
02:32:53,280 --> 02:32:56,640
Joseph interpreted the Hebrew
word Bereshit.

2504
02:32:57,600 --> 02:33:01,920
He claimed that an old Jew
without any authority added the

2505
02:33:01,920 --> 02:33:08,600
word, which again kind of ties
back to the Book of Mormon,

2506
02:33:08,600 --> 02:33:10,360
right?
And so again, it's not about a

2507
02:33:10,360 --> 02:33:13,280
whole group of people as much as
it is about there seems to be

2508
02:33:13,280 --> 02:33:19,520
this one, one guy maybe, right.
Well, pointing out.

2509
02:33:20,120 --> 02:33:23,040
Well, I, I think this guy, it
says it contained the fullness

2510
02:33:23,040 --> 02:33:25,720
of the gospel when it comes
forth from this a Jew.

2511
02:33:26,120 --> 02:33:29,400
So I think this, a Jew, is
probably has a prophetic

2512
02:33:29,400 --> 02:33:34,600
calling, a lot like Moroni.
OK, but after that, this is a

2513
02:33:34,600 --> 02:33:37,000
text that needs to be
replicated, interestingly

2514
02:33:37,000 --> 02:33:39,520
enough, right?
These are ancient records.

2515
02:33:39,520 --> 02:33:41,640
They're written on scrolls.
These things deteriorate.

2516
02:33:41,640 --> 02:33:46,040
They don't last forever, which
means you've got to keep copying

2517
02:33:46,040 --> 02:33:48,200
them over time and over time and
over time.

2518
02:33:48,960 --> 02:33:52,640
Now, if you had these engraved
on like stone, you'd be unable

2519
02:33:52,640 --> 02:33:56,080
to alter them.
Or like tablets?

2520
02:33:56,920 --> 02:34:03,320
Or maybe brass plates.
Yeah, a lot harder to to change

2521
02:34:03,320 --> 02:34:04,880
that, right?
If you're doing a scroll, you

2522
02:34:04,880 --> 02:34:07,360
can change it anytime.
Any scribe can change it anytime

2523
02:34:07,360 --> 02:34:10,000
they're copying it potentially.
Right.

2524
02:34:10,520 --> 02:34:13,720
You could have banned versions,
you could have families that

2525
02:34:13,720 --> 02:34:17,800
unintentionally, right deviate
in the in their copings of these

2526
02:34:17,800 --> 02:34:21,440
things.
But yeah, so it's coming forth

2527
02:34:21,440 --> 02:34:25,040
from the mouth of a Jew.
But yeah, a Jew didn't like a

2528
02:34:25,040 --> 02:34:27,280
part, so they changed it.
Now I don't understand this.

2529
02:34:27,280 --> 02:34:29,240
This doesn't make sense to me.
It might not even been in bad

2530
02:34:29,240 --> 02:34:33,000
faith, but regardless, this
can't be right.

2531
02:34:33,000 --> 02:34:34,840
This doesn't make sense
according to how I understand

2532
02:34:34,840 --> 02:34:37,400
everything.
So I'm going to, I'm just going

2533
02:34:37,400 --> 02:34:41,160
to change it as I'm copying it
for my family or for, for

2534
02:34:41,160 --> 02:34:44,120
selling or to do it for the
synagogue or whatever, right.

2535
02:34:44,800 --> 02:34:49,120
Exactly.
So at one point this, what we

2536
02:34:49,120 --> 02:34:53,200
today call the Bible, has the
fullness of the of the gospel of

2537
02:34:53,200 --> 02:34:56,200
the Lord in it.
OK.

2538
02:34:57,200 --> 02:34:59,360
Of whom the 12 apostles bear
record.

2539
02:34:59,360 --> 02:35:01,320
It's interesting that he, now
he's bringing up the apostles.

2540
02:35:02,240 --> 02:35:04,400
Why?
Because.

2541
02:35:04,520 --> 02:35:07,080
And they bear record according
to the truth, which is in the

2542
02:35:07,080 --> 02:35:11,480
Lamb of God.
Therefore these things go forth

2543
02:35:11,480 --> 02:35:14,160
from the Jews in purity unto the
Gentiles.

2544
02:35:14,160 --> 02:35:16,640
Now it's saying, the Jews what?
Which Jews?

2545
02:35:17,800 --> 02:35:22,120
The Sanhedrin?
The Pharisees?

2546
02:35:22,120 --> 02:35:26,480
The Sadducees.
Or is it the apostles?

2547
02:35:27,040 --> 02:35:29,880
The apostles, we just got
introduced to the apostles and

2548
02:35:29,880 --> 02:35:34,800
they're Jews.
Wiles bring up the apostles and,

2549
02:35:34,800 --> 02:35:36,680
and say that what they're going
to teach is of great worth to

2550
02:35:36,680 --> 02:35:38,680
the Gentiles.
And these are these are true

2551
02:35:38,680 --> 02:35:41,760
things.
They're going to teach some true

2552
02:35:41,760 --> 02:35:45,240
things here.
And then it, it, it becomes,

2553
02:35:45,240 --> 02:35:48,840
it's, it's pretty clear too.
It says, and the Angel of the

2554
02:35:48,840 --> 02:35:50,280
Lord said unto me, thou has
beheld it.

2555
02:35:50,280 --> 02:35:52,200
The book proceedeth.
Wait, I did that already, right?

2556
02:35:52,200 --> 02:35:54,520
Yeah.
Therefore these things go forth

2557
02:35:54,520 --> 02:35:57,640
from the Jews in purity unto the
Gentiles, according to the truth

2558
02:35:57,640 --> 02:36:00,800
which is in God, which they just
said.

2559
02:36:00,800 --> 02:36:04,920
The apostles are testifying of
the truth which is in God, and

2560
02:36:04,920 --> 02:36:07,840
after they go forth by the hand
of the 12 apostles of the Lamb,

2561
02:36:07,840 --> 02:36:10,600
and there you go, now you know.
There's the answer.

2562
02:36:11,160 --> 02:36:15,840
There's a.
Pure version of this Bible that

2563
02:36:15,960 --> 02:36:24,600
the 12 apostles have that it
goes forth from them unto 12

2564
02:36:24,600 --> 02:36:26,720
Apostle Lamb from the Jew unto
the Gentile.

2565
02:36:26,720 --> 02:36:28,960
Thou seest the formation of the
great and abominable church,

2566
02:36:28,960 --> 02:36:31,560
which is most abominable above
all of the churches.

2567
02:36:31,560 --> 02:36:35,880
For behold, they have taken away
from the gospel of the Lamb many

2568
02:36:35,880 --> 02:36:39,760
parts which are plain and most
precious and also many covenants

2569
02:36:39,760 --> 02:36:42,240
of the Lord have they taken
away.

2570
02:36:42,720 --> 02:36:45,280
Now here's here's my contention.
And this is again, this is my

2571
02:36:45,280 --> 02:36:47,680
opinion on this too, right?
This is my theologic.

2572
02:36:47,680 --> 02:36:53,880
This is no, I'm not speaking on
behalf of, of God or even my,

2573
02:36:54,000 --> 02:36:56,160
my, you know, even the Mormon
legacy ministries.

2574
02:36:56,480 --> 02:36:59,760
I'm speaking from my own
understanding of what I'm

2575
02:36:59,760 --> 02:37:02,480
reading here, right?
But I think this makes sense.

2576
02:37:04,440 --> 02:37:09,040
This the Bible is corrupted by
the great and abominable church

2577
02:37:09,080 --> 02:37:11,640
after it says after it goes
forth from the 12 apostles, but

2578
02:37:11,640 --> 02:37:14,200
we don't necessarily know what
the 12 apostles had.

2579
02:37:16,040 --> 02:37:20,280
When I hear Christ say what is
the Christ quotes Deuteronomy

2580
02:37:20,280 --> 02:37:23,480
and says what he asked them what
is the 1st and great commandment

2581
02:37:24,040 --> 02:37:26,560
to love the Lord God with all
your heart, might, mind and soul

2582
02:37:26,560 --> 02:37:30,200
right and then Christ says, and
the second is like unto it, you

2583
02:37:30,240 --> 02:37:31,680
shall love your neighbor like
yourself.

2584
02:37:32,240 --> 02:37:34,000
I didn't see the second in
Deuteronomy.

2585
02:37:40,240 --> 02:37:43,480
Is quite is Christ quoting a
more complete version of

2586
02:37:43,480 --> 02:37:45,600
Deuteronomy in both of the
verses?

2587
02:37:45,600 --> 02:37:48,560
Maybe.
Interesting.

2588
02:37:49,000 --> 02:37:53,520
I don't think we would know if
he didn't spell it out, if he

2589
02:37:53,520 --> 02:37:58,880
doesn't say hey, and it we read
in Deuteronomy and and Christ

2590
02:37:58,880 --> 02:38:01,320
doesn't do that.
None of his quotations do that.

2591
02:38:01,320 --> 02:38:04,720
So honestly, I even wonder how
much Christ actually quotes in

2592
02:38:04,720 --> 02:38:07,680
the Old Testament, because we
see him quote stuff that we

2593
02:38:07,680 --> 02:38:10,440
have.
Could he have been quoting other

2594
02:38:10,440 --> 02:38:13,360
stuff as well that that we have
no idea that that was also a

2595
02:38:13,360 --> 02:38:16,280
quote.
Maybe that was also Deuteronomy.

2596
02:38:16,280 --> 02:38:18,200
It was just a different
Deuteronomy.

2597
02:38:19,760 --> 02:38:23,200
And I don't think what's being
said here precludes the idea

2598
02:38:23,200 --> 02:38:25,920
that these texts could have been
corrupted beforehand as well,

2599
02:38:26,240 --> 02:38:33,200
right?
If Christ had suppose that is

2600
02:38:33,200 --> 02:38:36,280
the case and, and, and, and the
Old Testament has been corrupted

2601
02:38:36,440 --> 02:38:39,960
and Christ is doing his
ministry, what would happen if

2602
02:38:39,960 --> 02:38:43,200
Christ says, oh, and by the way,
you think that's the law of

2603
02:38:43,200 --> 02:38:47,320
Moses where it says this in that
verse and that is wrong.

2604
02:38:48,280 --> 02:38:52,160
That's not the law, right?
I, I think they would have, they

2605
02:38:52,160 --> 02:38:53,400
would have killed him
immediately.

2606
02:38:53,760 --> 02:38:57,160
I mean, you're speaking out
against the Holy Spirit.

2607
02:38:57,160 --> 02:38:59,920
I mean, look what, look at what,
look at the what the Christians

2608
02:38:59,920 --> 02:39:03,160
did.
It's Joseph Smith, 100.

2609
02:39:03,480 --> 02:39:06,280
Percent.
You've got a a new Bible, you've

2610
02:39:06,280 --> 02:39:08,520
got a different, you're saying
our Bible is not reliable.

2611
02:39:08,520 --> 02:39:14,520
You're saying that provokes
violence among among religious

2612
02:39:14,520 --> 02:39:22,200
people 9/9 times out of 10.
So, so I don't know that Christ

2613
02:39:22,200 --> 02:39:25,720
would necessarily draw attention
to the corruption, but if it's

2614
02:39:25,720 --> 02:39:28,320
not all corrupt, he could
certainly use the parts that

2615
02:39:28,320 --> 02:39:31,080
aren't to illustrate the things
he needs to teach.

2616
02:39:33,040 --> 02:39:35,360
And so that's kind of the take
that I'm taking on this.

2617
02:39:35,360 --> 02:39:38,800
This is how I understand what
Nephi is explaining here too.

2618
02:39:38,880 --> 02:39:42,360
So it is pure.
So the 12 apostles, maybe Christ

2619
02:39:42,360 --> 02:39:45,840
has a, a copy that isn't
corrupted.

2620
02:39:45,840 --> 02:39:49,200
Maybe he does a Joseph Smith
translation of his own that he

2621
02:39:49,200 --> 02:39:50,560
gives to the apostles.
I don't know.

2622
02:39:50,640 --> 02:39:55,920
But they have a version that's
that's uncorrupted and it's

2623
02:39:55,920 --> 02:39:58,080
going to go to the to the
Gentiles.

2624
02:39:58,520 --> 02:40:01,720
But and so who are those
Gentiles, by the way?

2625
02:40:03,040 --> 02:40:05,960
I would dare to say it's
probably those that Holy Roman

2626
02:40:05,960 --> 02:40:08,640
Empire at that point is what
he's talking about there.

2627
02:40:09,240 --> 02:40:12,000
I think it's before.
You think it's before that?

2628
02:40:12,320 --> 02:40:15,120
Wherefore these things go forth
from the Jews impurity unto the

2629
02:40:15,120 --> 02:40:17,040
Gentiles, according to the
truth, which is.

2630
02:40:17,080 --> 02:40:18,520
Involved.
That's a good point, yeah.

2631
02:40:19,240 --> 02:40:21,040
Right.
So I think this is Paul and

2632
02:40:21,040 --> 02:40:27,520
Peter and and Barnabas and the
original 12 apostles.

2633
02:40:28,440 --> 02:40:31,200
They're the ones who delivered
to the early church.

2634
02:40:32,680 --> 02:40:37,200
So we don't have copies of of
what the Bible looked like in

2635
02:40:37,200 --> 02:40:38,960
the early church.
Again, like, you know, we have

2636
02:40:38,960 --> 02:40:41,480
these ancient older versions of
stuff like the Septuagint

2637
02:40:41,480 --> 02:40:45,160
things, right, The Dead Sea
Scrolls, but we don't know that

2638
02:40:45,160 --> 02:40:47,080
that was what they were using
either.

2639
02:40:49,600 --> 02:40:51,880
And so regardless, it's
impurity.

2640
02:40:51,880 --> 02:40:56,040
But then after they go forth by
the hand of the 12 apostle Lamb

2641
02:40:56,040 --> 02:40:58,800
from the June and this is the
great and bobble church, right?

2642
02:40:59,640 --> 02:41:02,000
They've taken away from the
gospel of the Lamb many parts

2643
02:41:02,000 --> 02:41:04,360
which are plain and most
precious and also many covenants

2644
02:41:04,360 --> 02:41:05,680
of the Lord.
Have they taken away.

2645
02:41:07,240 --> 02:41:11,400
This is important here because I
think what Nephi with the Angel

2646
02:41:11,400 --> 02:41:14,680
here is trying to explain is, is
that the Bible that these

2647
02:41:14,680 --> 02:41:18,400
Gentiles bring over the ocean to
America with that they bring,

2648
02:41:18,880 --> 02:41:22,000
it's not reliable.
It has been contaminated.

2649
02:41:22,080 --> 02:41:24,360
That's the main point here,
right?

2650
02:41:24,360 --> 02:41:27,160
And it's interesting that they
specifically, he says, taken

2651
02:41:27,160 --> 02:41:30,960
away, taken away.
It seems like it's been

2652
02:41:30,960 --> 02:41:35,080
corrupted mostly by removal than
it has necessarily by addition.

2653
02:41:36,040 --> 02:41:39,320
And what's fascinating is when
you look at Joseph Smith's Moses

2654
02:41:40,000 --> 02:41:46,240
and you look at Genesis, Genesis
as in as defined in the, in the

2655
02:41:46,240 --> 02:41:50,040
Bible as we have it today,
right, is pretty much word for

2656
02:41:50,040 --> 02:41:57,360
word there in the book of Moses.
But the book of Moses has a heck

2657
02:41:57,360 --> 02:42:00,640
of a lot more.
And it's, it's a wild how

2658
02:42:00,640 --> 02:42:02,800
different it is.
I mean, you're in, you're

2659
02:42:02,800 --> 02:42:05,080
reading the book of Moses,
you're finding out that Noah and

2660
02:42:05,080 --> 02:42:07,840
his sons are preaching the
gospel of Jesus Christ before

2661
02:42:07,840 --> 02:42:11,520
the flood.
It just flat out it says they're

2662
02:42:11,520 --> 02:42:14,000
teaching Jesus Christ.
Did Noah know who Jesus Christ

2663
02:42:14,000 --> 02:42:17,920
was according to Genesis?
Not according to Genesis.

2664
02:42:17,920 --> 02:42:19,040
We don't know.
We don't know.

2665
02:42:19,040 --> 02:42:20,280
We don't know anything about
that.

2666
02:42:22,320 --> 02:42:25,280
But when we look at Joseph Smith
translation, no, he was teaching

2667
02:42:25,280 --> 02:42:29,720
the gospel of Jesus Christ.
That is what Noah was preaching.

2668
02:42:30,480 --> 02:42:32,920
Well, that's kind of important.
And if you don't like Christ for

2669
02:42:32,920 --> 02:42:34,720
some reason and you want to
remove him from the Old

2670
02:42:34,720 --> 02:42:38,960
Testament, that's what you're,
that's you're going to remove

2671
02:42:38,960 --> 02:42:42,400
the plain and precious things.
The fact that Joseph Smith

2672
02:42:42,400 --> 02:42:44,760
translation basically in, in
Moses.

2673
02:42:44,760 --> 02:42:48,120
And I, I actually agree with a
comment Joshua Erickson made on

2674
02:42:48,120 --> 02:42:50,040
your podcast a few, a few weeks
back, right?

2675
02:42:50,720 --> 02:42:53,600
I think that a lot of the
translation of the of the Old

2676
02:42:53,600 --> 02:42:56,440
and New Testament that Joseph
Smith did is interpretive.

2677
02:42:56,600 --> 02:43:00,000
He's not necessarily restoring
the, the text.

2678
02:43:00,800 --> 02:43:05,400
He's giving interpretation.
He's restoring the meaning of

2679
02:43:05,400 --> 02:43:07,320
the text.
Yeah, he's getting the meaning

2680
02:43:07,320 --> 02:43:10,000
back to what it should be, but
he's not getting it back to the

2681
02:43:10,000 --> 02:43:12,240
original narrative.
Except.

2682
02:43:13,360 --> 02:43:18,080
Except in Moses.
In Moses that's exactly what you

2683
02:43:18,080 --> 02:43:20,320
see and what we call the book of
book of Moses.

2684
02:43:21,320 --> 02:43:25,400
We see this humongous amount of
addition that just changes

2685
02:43:26,200 --> 02:43:29,240
everything on how you look at
those stories.

2686
02:43:29,240 --> 02:43:31,600
And unfortunately, it stops
right before Noah.

2687
02:43:32,080 --> 02:43:35,480
We get an introduction to Noah.
We learned important things like

2688
02:43:35,840 --> 02:43:38,960
in Genesis, it says God repented
that he had created man.

2689
02:43:39,440 --> 02:43:44,080
God is like, man, I wish I
didn't man, you guys all suck.

2690
02:43:44,080 --> 02:43:46,880
I wish you could you could
parent homeless children.

2691
02:43:49,320 --> 02:43:51,400
Like that's a little rough.
I'll be honest.

2692
02:43:51,400 --> 02:43:54,040
That's not the best example as a
father to be like, you know, I

2693
02:43:54,040 --> 02:43:56,200
wish you, I wish we'd never had
you.

2694
02:43:57,880 --> 02:44:03,200
But but in the inspired version,
when we find out that was Noah

2695
02:44:03,280 --> 02:44:06,400
making that complaint, I.
Get.

2696
02:44:06,440 --> 02:44:09,560
It and if you grow up with a lot
of siblings, that's a whole lot

2697
02:44:09,560 --> 02:44:12,640
more reasonable.
Man, I wish you'd never been

2698
02:44:12,640 --> 02:44:21,120
born.
But anyways, I mean, I think we

2699
02:44:21,120 --> 02:44:25,080
see that there is definitely
some unreliableness in the

2700
02:44:25,080 --> 02:44:26,680
Bible.
The Puritans didn't know that

2701
02:44:26,680 --> 02:44:28,880
Noah's preaching the gospel of
Jesus Christ.

2702
02:44:28,880 --> 02:44:33,320
We only know that because of
Joseph Smith and he put those

2703
02:44:33,320 --> 02:44:36,480
testimonies back in.
The first thing that Moses has

2704
02:44:36,480 --> 02:44:39,120
in in his whole vision of
Genesis before the vision even

2705
02:44:39,120 --> 02:44:42,720
starts, right, is he's taught
the gospel.

2706
02:44:43,080 --> 02:44:45,160
He's taught that he's taught
that there's going to be a

2707
02:44:45,160 --> 02:44:49,320
savior.
Jesus Christ is, you know,

2708
02:44:49,840 --> 02:44:52,480
people talk about like the Book
of Mormon is so Christ centric,

2709
02:44:52,520 --> 02:44:54,120
right?
It's like, it's like he's

2710
02:44:54,120 --> 02:44:56,840
referenced like I don't remember
this, this was it like 4 1/2

2711
02:44:56,840 --> 02:44:58,160
times on every page or
something?

2712
02:45:00,200 --> 02:45:03,320
Pretty wild.
You know, the restored version

2713
02:45:03,320 --> 02:45:07,600
of Genesis looks like that.
The Joseph Smith's The Pearl of

2714
02:45:07,600 --> 02:45:11,920
Great Price, Books of Moses.
They look a lot like the Book of

2715
02:45:11,920 --> 02:45:14,480
Mormon in that regards.
And what exactly is Nephi saying

2716
02:45:14,480 --> 02:45:18,520
here?
That the plain and precious

2717
02:45:18,520 --> 02:45:21,640
parts are going to be removed.
But what is the Book of Mormon?

2718
02:45:22,680 --> 02:45:26,680
Well, the plain and precious
parts restored, maybe not the

2719
02:45:26,680 --> 02:45:29,200
same stories, but it's brought
back.

2720
02:45:29,200 --> 02:45:31,240
Christ is the center of the Book
of Mormon.

2721
02:45:31,560 --> 02:45:34,800
I think Christ is the center of,
of the Old Testament as well.

2722
02:45:35,640 --> 02:45:38,080
I think the only reason you
don't really see Christ outside

2723
02:45:38,080 --> 02:45:43,120
of deep, deep, deep symbolic
analysis, which requires, you

2724
02:45:43,120 --> 02:45:51,160
know, a Talmudic degree and,
and, and as a, as a Jew is

2725
02:45:53,040 --> 02:45:55,160
because it was removed.
It was there.

2726
02:45:55,680 --> 02:46:00,280
It's not there now.
Now, if that is the case and the

2727
02:46:00,280 --> 02:46:03,080
Puritans are coming over to
America, they're bringing this

2728
02:46:03,080 --> 02:46:07,560
book as their standard, what
would happen next?

2729
02:46:08,800 --> 02:46:10,400
Well, let's find out.
Let's ask the Angel.

2730
02:46:11,520 --> 02:46:14,520
Did you want to comment?
Oh, go ahead.

2731
02:46:15,360 --> 02:46:20,520
All right.
Versus I think we're on 29.

2732
02:46:21,880 --> 02:46:23,880
OK.
If not, that's all right.

2733
02:46:23,880 --> 02:46:26,240
We'll we'll continue from.
No, I think it's 29 we're on.

2734
02:46:27,080 --> 02:46:29,600
And after these plain and
precious things were taken away,

2735
02:46:29,600 --> 02:46:32,720
it goeth forth from all the
nations of the Gentiles.

2736
02:46:32,720 --> 02:46:35,400
And after it goes forth unto all
the nations of the Gentiles.

2737
02:46:35,400 --> 02:46:38,440
Yeah, even across the many
waters now all the nations.

2738
02:46:38,440 --> 02:46:40,320
That's the whole that sounds
like the Holy Roman Empire,

2739
02:46:40,440 --> 02:46:42,480
right being established.
This Bible, it's, it's going

2740
02:46:42,640 --> 02:46:47,560
everywhere. 100%.
And it's even across the ocean,

2741
02:46:49,560 --> 02:46:52,880
yeah, even across many waters
that I've seen with the scene

2742
02:46:52,880 --> 02:46:55,520
with the Gentiles which have
gone forth out of captivity.

2743
02:46:56,000 --> 02:46:59,080
Thou seeest because of the many
plain and precious things which

2744
02:46:59,080 --> 02:47:02,160
have been taken out of the book,
which were plain unto the

2745
02:47:02,160 --> 02:47:05,600
understanding of the children of
men, according to the plainness

2746
02:47:05,600 --> 02:47:09,080
which is in the Lamb of God.
Because these things which were

2747
02:47:09,080 --> 02:47:12,280
taken out of the gospel of the
Lamb, an exceedingly great

2748
02:47:12,280 --> 02:47:17,520
number, many do stumble.
Yay, insomuch that Satan hath

2749
02:47:17,520 --> 02:47:21,600
great power over them, saying
these guys that come across the

2750
02:47:21,600 --> 02:47:23,800
law of the Bible, they're going
to they're going to stumble.

2751
02:47:25,320 --> 02:47:31,760
Now the Jews kind of stumbled as
well, right?

2752
02:47:32,720 --> 02:47:34,200
The Jews kind of stumbled as
well.

2753
02:47:34,520 --> 02:47:38,000
They stumbled because they've
been waiting for this Messiah

2754
02:47:38,360 --> 02:47:42,800
for millennia and he shows up
and they reject him.

2755
02:47:43,800 --> 02:47:47,480
Why?
Because they're looking for a

2756
02:47:47,480 --> 02:47:50,400
political savior, right?
They want a guy to bring the

2757
02:47:50,400 --> 02:47:53,280
sword.
They want him to drive Rome out.

2758
02:47:53,520 --> 02:47:56,360
They want to reestablish the
Davidic rule.

2759
02:47:56,680 --> 02:47:59,840
They want they.
Want nationalism?

2760
02:48:00,600 --> 02:48:04,400
Yes, Yep.
They're looking for Jewish

2761
02:48:04,400 --> 02:48:08,360
nationalism, and when Christ
doesn't give it to him, they

2762
02:48:08,360 --> 02:48:11,520
stumble.
I see.

2763
02:48:12,440 --> 02:48:15,960
Well, the Gentiles that these
Puritans and pilgrims, they're

2764
02:48:15,960 --> 02:48:20,840
going to stumble too, in fact,
exceedingly great many do

2765
02:48:20,840 --> 02:48:22,400
stumble.
And so, yeah, in so much that

2766
02:48:22,400 --> 02:48:23,720
Satan have great power over
them.

2767
02:48:23,720 --> 02:48:26,240
Nevertheless, thou beheldest
that the Gentiles who have gone

2768
02:48:26,240 --> 02:48:29,120
forth out of the captivity and
have been lifted up by the power

2769
02:48:29,120 --> 02:48:31,680
of God above all the nations,
upon the face of the land which

2770
02:48:31,680 --> 02:48:34,880
is choice above all other lands,
which is the land that Lord God

2771
02:48:34,880 --> 02:48:37,560
had covenanted with thy Father,
and that his seed should have

2772
02:48:37,560 --> 02:48:40,160
for a land of their inheritance.
Wherefore thou seest that the

2773
02:48:40,160 --> 02:48:42,560
Lord God will not suffer, that
the Gentiles will utterly

2774
02:48:42,560 --> 02:48:45,760
destroy the mixture of thy seed
which are among thy brethren.

2775
02:48:47,200 --> 02:48:56,000
So the Gentiles, despite this
issue, they've got God's going

2776
02:48:56,000 --> 02:48:59,280
to allow them to take take the
land, but also, but not

2777
02:48:59,280 --> 02:49:01,680
completely take it.
In other words, they're not

2778
02:49:01,680 --> 02:49:07,600
going to establish Christian
nationalism, which would

2779
02:49:07,600 --> 02:49:12,240
eradicate the pagans if it were
truly implemented in that way

2780
02:49:12,240 --> 02:49:15,200
over time.
They're going to be the, the,

2781
02:49:15,320 --> 02:49:18,400
the Lamanites, the Native
Americans, they're going to be a

2782
02:49:18,400 --> 02:49:23,440
portion of them are going to be
preserved in this state.

2783
02:49:24,560 --> 02:49:27,320
Nevertheless, he will suffer
that the Gentiles shall destroy

2784
02:49:27,320 --> 02:49:29,320
the seed of thy brethren.
They're going to destroy him,

2785
02:49:29,360 --> 02:49:31,280
but they're, some of them are
going to survive.

2786
02:49:32,200 --> 02:49:34,880
Neither will the Lord God suffer
that the Gentiles shall ever

2787
02:49:34,880 --> 02:49:40,680
forever remain in that awful
state of blindness wish thou

2788
02:49:40,680 --> 02:49:43,480
beheld, as therein because of
the plain and most precious

2789
02:49:43,480 --> 02:49:45,880
parts of the Gospel of the Lamb,
which have been kept back by

2790
02:49:45,880 --> 02:49:49,000
that abominable Church whose
formation thou has seen.

2791
02:49:50,120 --> 02:49:53,240
Wherefore saith the Lamb of God,
I will be merciful unto the

2792
02:49:53,240 --> 02:49:56,280
Gentiles unto the visiting of
the remnant of the House of

2793
02:49:56,280 --> 02:50:03,000
Israel in great judgement.
So in this, in this, in the

2794
02:50:03,000 --> 02:50:06,200
state of whether the Native
Americans repel the, the, the

2795
02:50:06,400 --> 02:50:09,080
the colonizers or the colonizers
are going to win, right.

2796
02:50:09,440 --> 02:50:12,480
God saying that God's going to
favor the colonizers in this

2797
02:50:12,480 --> 02:50:17,200
case, even though, even though
he's going to be merciful unto

2798
02:50:17,200 --> 02:50:21,800
the Gentiles, even though
they're blind because of the

2799
02:50:22,000 --> 02:50:26,560
this flaw in this in this book
that they've got this important

2800
02:50:26,560 --> 02:50:30,800
flaw.
He's recognizing that that and

2801
02:50:30,800 --> 02:50:33,760
and correct me if this is an
unfair assessment, they're going

2802
02:50:33,760 --> 02:50:36,600
to stumble because the of all
the plain and precious things

2803
02:50:36,600 --> 02:50:38,880
that have been taken out of the
owner's manual, right?

2804
02:50:38,880 --> 02:50:40,800
The how to manual on how to do
things.

2805
02:50:41,320 --> 02:50:43,960
And so that's the reason they
stumble and that's probably the

2806
02:50:43,960 --> 02:50:50,400
reason he has has mercy on them,
because he recognizes it's not

2807
02:50:50,400 --> 02:50:51,960
really.
They're doing their best.

2808
02:50:52,000 --> 02:50:54,280
It's not their fault, right?
They're doing their best.

2809
02:50:54,280 --> 02:50:55,680
They think they've got this
book.

2810
02:50:55,680 --> 02:51:01,400
They think it says that they've
got to do this. 100%, you know,

2811
02:51:01,400 --> 02:51:04,960
and that's once again, and I've
said this before on the podcast

2812
02:51:04,960 --> 02:51:10,000
several times, I think God waits
for us to do stuff first, right?

2813
02:51:10,000 --> 02:51:11,920
Like how serious you going to
take it?

2814
02:51:11,920 --> 02:51:13,080
Are you going to make an
attempt?

2815
02:51:13,200 --> 02:51:14,720
Because if you make an attempt,
they'll help you.

2816
02:51:15,200 --> 02:51:17,920
But if you're just going to sit
back and continue to be academic

2817
02:51:17,920 --> 02:51:21,400
about it, there's not much I can
help you with there, right?

2818
02:51:21,400 --> 02:51:24,360
I'll let you fumble around for
the answers, but at some point

2819
02:51:24,360 --> 02:51:26,960
do something.
And here we see it again, right?

2820
02:51:27,160 --> 02:51:30,880
You have a people who's willing
to do something and then the

2821
02:51:30,880 --> 02:51:33,160
Lord's like, good enough.
I can work with that.

2822
02:51:33,160 --> 02:51:35,600
From there, we'll move.
Forward with that, it's a move.

2823
02:51:35,640 --> 02:51:38,320
It's a chess play, right?
Chess play.

2824
02:51:38,320 --> 02:51:42,040
I'm I might not be in Zion yet,
but I'm one step closer.

2825
02:51:42,640 --> 02:51:46,200
Yeah, you've entered the game.
You've you've coaches put you

2826
02:51:46,200 --> 02:51:47,680
in.
Time to go?

2827
02:51:47,960 --> 02:51:49,240
Yep.
OK.

2828
02:51:50,120 --> 02:51:51,840
So, but what is God going to do
about it?

2829
02:51:51,840 --> 02:51:53,560
Because this is still, this is a
problem.

2830
02:51:54,120 --> 02:51:56,280
This is a big problem
nonetheless, if we're going to

2831
02:51:56,280 --> 02:52:00,600
get to an actual covenant city,
if we're going to get to an

2832
02:52:00,600 --> 02:52:05,000
actual covenant nation of God,
the fact that the the the

2833
02:52:05,000 --> 02:52:08,600
handbook for the manual is
unreliable, that's a problem.

2834
02:52:11,560 --> 02:52:14,720
OK, so we still have 2 1/2 hours
left of this thing, so we're

2835
02:52:14,720 --> 02:52:16,360
going to stop right there for
this week.

2836
02:52:16,800 --> 02:52:19,680
Now, when Justin and I finish
our conversation next week,

2837
02:52:19,960 --> 02:52:22,960
we'll be diving back into the
scriptures where Justin will

2838
02:52:22,960 --> 02:52:26,400
show exactly how the Lord fixed
the issues described in First

2839
02:52:26,400 --> 02:52:28,680
Nephi.
After that, we're going to do a

2840
02:52:28,680 --> 02:52:32,120
deep dive as we parse out the
differences between Christian

2841
02:52:32,120 --> 02:52:35,360
nationalism and Zion.
We will then be examining more

2842
02:52:35,360 --> 02:52:37,800
videos of self-described
Christian nationalists and show

2843
02:52:37,800 --> 02:52:40,640
you the theological fallacies of
Christian nationalism.

2844
02:52:40,960 --> 02:52:45,480
And what have to say about it.
Then we will go move on to talk

2845
02:52:45,480 --> 02:52:48,000
about what you should be
focusing on as a Mormon and

2846
02:52:48,000 --> 02:52:51,000
finish all that up as I make a
big announcement on something

2847
02:52:51,000 --> 02:52:53,360
new for next year.
Thanks again for listening.

2848
02:52:53,360 --> 02:52:54,840
We'll see you here next
Saturday.

2849
02:52:54,960 --> 02:52:55,760
Bye everybody.