Episode #205: The Principles Of Brotherhood W/David Nielsen

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The.
You're listening to the Mormon

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Renegade podcast.
David, how you doing man?

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Good, good.
It's good to see you and meet up

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with you again.
Yeah, I do.

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I always enjoy our talks.
I I, when I just, I like you

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today.
I mean, I just love you.

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You're a great guy.
And I, I'm always game to have

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these conversations with you.
Before we get going here, we're

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going to talk tonight about
brotherhood and friendship,

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right?
And an interesting thing

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happened as you called me for
this.

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You called me about this when I
was wrapping up my first night

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in Philadelphia.
And I had walked around

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Philadelphia for probably a good
two hours, downtown, around

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city.
Hall.

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Independence Hall, you know,
that the, the whole downtown

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area there and the and, and I
was struck by City Hall and I

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probably looked at Philadelphia
City Hall probably 50, you know,

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upwards of 50 times I, I went
back to.

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Philadelphia a lot.
Especially when I lived on the

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East Coast, and honestly, I
didn't pay that much attention

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to William Penn, right?
Penn was always a guy that was

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kind of.
Before the the the.

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Revolution, right?
So I didn't, I didn't put, I

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didn't pay attention to him
enough, enough.

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I'm sure the Lord prompted me
to, but in those days I was kind

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of a bonehead.
So I probably didn't pick up on

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it like I should.
But this time I did and I got

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back to the hotel and I followed
that prompting and what it came

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through was and, and there's
going to be more here on this.

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I'm, I'm not going to go into
all the details here of of kind

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of what I I picked out of there.
But a big.

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Part of that was Penn's desire
to have a city where brotherly

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love and friendship was open to
all.

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I mean, that's really what he
did.

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And he, he actually spoke a lot
about it.

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So when you called me that night
as I'm at the hotel and I'm

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actually doing research and I
mean, I say it all the time, but

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I truly mean it, You know, God
bless my wives, right?

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Because we're there for, you
know, an anniversary kind of

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thing.
And we're getting ready to leave

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and she for for the airport
there in Kansas City.

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And she goes, no, you're going
to take your laptop, right?

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And I'm like, no, I'm not taking
my laptop.

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This is for us.
I'm not going to do that.

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And she goes, you know, if you
don't take that laptop, you're

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going to kick yourself in the
rear, right?

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I was like, but this is for us,
you know, this is for you.

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You've put up with me for 30
years.

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You deserve this.
And she's like, yeah, take your

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laptop.
And so she was, she was just,

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you know, relaxing there in the
hotel room with me.

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And then you called and I was, I
was already on fire.

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I'm sure you could tell, right?
Like I was already spitting

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fire.
Like, dude, you wouldn't believe

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what I saw.
Holy cow.

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And then I'm seeing this.
And so I apologize for that

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because I think I like totally
word vomited all over the phone

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at you as I was on there because
I was just amped up and excited.

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But then you said, you know, I,
I would like to come on the

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podcast and talk about
brotherhood.

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And I was like, no way, right,
Like no way.

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This, it's exactly what I was
looking at.

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Like no way.
And we talked a little bit and

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I'm just so grateful for how the
Lord works.

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I mean, he is just so good.
And there are certain times

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where I second guess myself,
right, like, OK, am I just

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getting amped up just on the
history or am I really picking

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something up here?
And so that kind of call that

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you made there, man, that just
kind of like sealed the deal.

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So I am really looking forward
to this.

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That's awesome.
Well, I that's, that's a great

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story And and you know, it is
true.

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The Lord, the Lord blesses us in
times when we're not expecting

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it, but there's something that
needs to happen.

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And you know, I don't know why
I'm not, I'm not the most

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prophetic person or anything.
I just, I've been thinking about

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this for a couple of weeks,
honestly, just going, you know,

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because we did a couple other
podcasts and, and I, I really

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enjoyed doing them, which is
kind of strange to say, I guess,

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but I just like talking the
gospel.

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But I just kept feeling like I
need, I feel like we need to go

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over something that's a little
more usable to people today,

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like the law of consecration.
Some of the other things went

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over.
It's, it's really good stuff.

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But but if there's something
that that we can use our

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personal experience to help
better people's lives today,

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man, I just felt like something
simple.

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And then I start diving into
more of this and I'm like, Oh,

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this is not simple.
This is there's a wealth of

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information here because really
you're talking about the

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foundation of the gospel, you
know, so, So yeah, that's great.

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And I was thinking after you,
after you told me you were in

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Philadelphia, I actually did a
little research myself to kind

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of because I'm unfamiliar with
some of that history.

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And that's where the name
Philadelphia comes from, is from

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the two Greek words Philo and,
and but Delphia, Delphus,

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something like that.
And that's brotherly love.

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That's what those two mean and
the kind of love because Greek

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has different words for
different love and not to get

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too complicated, but it's it's
different than the the love that

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Paul was talking about in First
Corinthians chapter 13.

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That's agape in the Greek.
Philo is like a real intimate

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kind of brotherly love.
Specifically not a romantic

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love, but a real genuine
fondness and caring for another

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person.
Yeah, yeah, You know, I'm still

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working on some stuff and I
started cross referencing some

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things that Penn had said and
then some things Joseph had said

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on this very subject.
And I'll tell you what, like

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it's, it's I, I won't say it's
verbatim because that's not

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true, but the message is
verbatim, right?

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I mean, the message is very
clear.

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And, and if you don't mind,
there's a couple things from

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Penn here I want to read real
quick.

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If if you're good with that If I
don't do real.

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Sure.
No, it's great.

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So one one thing he said is he
said a true, a true friend

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freely advises, justly assists,
readily adventures boldly takes.

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Takes all patiently, defends
courageously and continues a

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friend unchangeably.
And there there was there was

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another quote here that he gave
concerning the the Native

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Americans to which I found
really interesting.

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So in my, in my, my studies
here, what I discovered is that

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Penn had one of the longest
standing treaties with the

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Native Americans of any colonial
settlement.

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It was him and it was the
Puritans in, up in Plymouth.

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But it is it is absolutely
incredible when when you start

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looking at at the gospel.
And.

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Joseph actually speaks a lot on
brotherly love and affection and

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those things.
And there, especially in

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Joseph's writings, I think what
we what we can draw.

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Out is that.
He yearned for that kind of

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brotherhood, right?
This wasn't something that he

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was just doing because the Lord
told him to do in terms of, of

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trying to unite people together.
He he felt it at his core.

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That comes through when you
start looking up friendship

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quotes by Joseph Smith.
Yeah, it reminds me of that,

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that quote.
I remember listening lots of

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times growing up, but it was
what Willard, Richard Willard

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Richardson said that Joseph said
about him.

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And this would have been a
little later on, maybe in the

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40s.
And he had entrusted Willard

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Richards to keep his journals
and and kind of be a general

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manager for him because Joseph
wasn't very good at managing his

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finances and that.
But Willard Richards had a

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talent, and Joseph said
something to him.

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He says, I have, I'm going to,
I'm going to butcher this quote

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because I can't remember it
exactly.

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I have searched and searched for
a man after my own heart, and I

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have found that man in Willard
Richards.

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And this is the kind of
friendship, a deep confidence

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for each other that is, that is,
you know, goes beyond just mere

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friendly acquaintance, but a
genuine love for each other.

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And, you know, the gospel's full
of it.

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So and we see that and it's it's
really awesome that you you were

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out there having that
experience.

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William Penn was trying to do
this work.

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And I'm not going to steal your
Thunder from your other works

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you're going to do on it.
But there is a wealth of

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information on this topic in the
Scriptures and in the stories

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from the different brethren,
Because when you break it all

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down, brotherhood and
sisterhood, Alad and

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fellowshipping and friendship is
kind of cuts right at the core.

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You know, the Savior says the
two great commandments, and upon

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this hang all the law in the
prophets, that you love the Lord

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your God with all your heart,
might, mind, and strength.

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And the second is like unto it,
and he says like unto it because

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it's the same kind of love.
And we'll get into what that

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love is.
But you love your neighbors

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yourself.
And in the Hebrew where first

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states that I think Deuteronomy,
and then later in the New

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Testament, which is written in
Aramaic and then into Greek, all

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three of those languages use a
similar meaning in their

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language for that word love.
And it's, it's quite

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complicated, but I studied into
this because I wanted to

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understand it.
The the best way I can describe

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it is, is service properly
motivated you love you, you

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serve properly motivated the
Lord your God and you serve

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properly motivated your
neighbor.

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And it's that properly
motivation is bound in love for

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the other person, but it's, it's
an action.

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There's an action element to it.
And that's where the service

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comes in.
So, you know, by serving the

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Lord properly, we and serving
our neighbors properly, this

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principle of brotherhood starts
coming into view.

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And let's be real.
I mean, in today's world, what

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do we see?
What do we see around us?

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I mean, Democrats, Republicans,
Mormon, Christian, you name it,

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there's, you know, atheists and
all these people.

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And they have taken sides.
And like we've seen in the last

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little while, we have started to
see this get deadly.

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They're willing to take the life
or lives of somebody that they

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believe is less valuable because
of their beliefs or the things

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that they say.
And there's a massive divide.

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And I'm not going to say that it
this is the only day that it's

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been in.
I mean, obviously this is

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throughout the history of the
world.

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This is persecution, you know,
but Charlie Kirk gets

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assassinated.
We've seen, you know, countless

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things on the news about just
terrible things people do to

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each other.
And guy drives into a church

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and, you know, shoots a bunch of
LDS people and all this stuff is

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this is the devil really working
overboard?

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I feel like to draw these
divides between US and they can

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be a division over ideology or
political beliefs or spiritual

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beliefs or color of your skin or
whatever it is.

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He wants to divide us up.
And as fundamentalist, we know

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all about dividing.
Yeah, we've been doing it.

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And, you know, not to say the
Christians and the rest of the

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restoration hasn't, but, you
know, there's a way that we can,

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we can start to tackle this on a
principal basis.

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How do we deal with other
people?

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And why do we feel so drawn to
destroy someone for believing

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differently?
Right, You know, sorry, go

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ahead.
No, no, go ahead.

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I was going to say I could talk
for hours if you let me.

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So I just saying, just reading
earlier, you know, in Proverbs,

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I know that Proverbs is just a
bunch of good sayings, but

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they're sometimes really
interesting.

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He says a man, this is Proverbs
1824.

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A man that have friends must
show himself friendly and there

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is A and there is a friend that
sticketh closer than a brother.

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You know, you got to be
friendly.

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And what kind of things can we
do?

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You know, I, I talked to a man
the other day who is a staunch

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conservative and he's married to
a liberal and he says, yeah,

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sometimes she drives me crazy,
but I love her to death.

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Right.
And I was like, you know,

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there's something to that.
I I, I actually appreciate that

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you.
Know as I went to Philadelphia,

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it was only a couple weeks just
under 2 weeks removed from when

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Charlie Kirk was assassinated
and I did the two episodes on

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him and I thought, OK, hopefully
I'm done with this now, right?

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I, I don't like commenting on
these things.

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I feel I'm, I'm woefully, I'm
woefully unqualified to do so,

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right?
And so I wasn't feeling real

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good about it.
I didn't enjoy having

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necessarily having those
conversations because it's not

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really what I want to do, right?
It's unpleasant.

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Nobody wants to do it.
However, I still felt like I was

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missing something, right?
Not that anything that we talked

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00:15:28,200 --> 00:15:31,920
about before was, was wasn't
correct or I didn't think it was

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00:15:31,920 --> 00:15:33,320
true.
It was just felt like I was

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missing something and I am so
thankful for the way the Lord

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works because we weren't even
supposed to be there till about

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this time.
We had to move our trip because

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of some other things that were
going on.

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And so I wasn't even supposed to
be there as as early as I was.

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But boy, I sure glad I am.
And it caused me to do some

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looking once I got home and I, I
had all these just collection of

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notes and, and little, you know,
videos I made for myself to, to,

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to remind myself of what I was
feeling at that moment.

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And the thing that jumped out to
me as I did research on phases

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that our country has went
through over the years, it

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00:16:16,000 --> 00:16:18,680
became ready readily apparent.
And I don't say this

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00:16:18,680 --> 00:16:23,680
haphazardly.
I don't say this out, you know,

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00:16:24,040 --> 00:16:26,840
just throwing it around.
I'm, I'm very serious about

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this.
We might be right now as divided

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00:16:30,440 --> 00:16:33,720
as the country was during the
Civil War, right?

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00:16:34,360 --> 00:16:38,200
And this time it's not
geographical, it's it's

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00:16:38,200 --> 00:16:41,200
ideological, right?
Mixed everywhere.

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And that Spooks me a lot.
And I think if we're going to to

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kind of steady the boat, so to
speak, we have got to get to a

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point to where we are willing to
to listen to other people,

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certainly not back away from our
principles and certainly not

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00:17:02,480 --> 00:17:05,000
fight for those things that we
feel are correct.

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But we can't just hunker down.
We can't just shut off one side.

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And that's going to take a lot
from those of us who proclaim to

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follow Christ, because we are
now going to have to lock in and

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do some things that quite
frankly, I'm not wanting to do

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00:17:26,560 --> 00:17:30,240
right, which is engage with
people that you vehemently

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disagree with and then hear them
out.

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But I think that's really our
only hope at this point is, is

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this idea of, of brotherhood of,
of getting back to some sort of

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unity on the, on the macro
level, right, on the national

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level.
Because I think as a society, we

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are sick and we, we got to
figure out how it is we get

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better.
And I think this is a big part

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of that.
Yeah.

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And I think in that process,
then, you know, fundamentalists

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00:18:00,360 --> 00:18:07,000
and and other real adherence to
the gospel, there's a there's an

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idea that there's the truth,
there's the right way and

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00:18:10,720 --> 00:18:15,360
everything else is not good.
And that is true.

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There is the truth and there's
the one way and we're striving

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00:18:20,600 --> 00:18:24,960
for that.
But that doesn't mean that

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00:18:24,960 --> 00:18:28,800
people who feel differently have
different set of value.

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00:18:30,000 --> 00:18:33,720
This is how Nazi Germany did
what they did by devaluing a

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00:18:33,720 --> 00:18:38,640
certain group of people.
You can tolerate all manner of

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00:18:39,320 --> 00:18:44,840
quite frankly abhorrent
behavior, certainly not in

290
00:18:44,840 --> 00:18:47,000
keeping with our with our
values.

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00:18:47,000 --> 00:18:54,000
So as we as people feel to
interact with, you know, on a

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00:18:54,200 --> 00:18:57,280
national level with people who
may feel different or think

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00:18:57,280 --> 00:19:01,040
different, what kind of
conversation should we be having

294
00:19:01,040 --> 00:19:02,480
and what should our motivation
be?

295
00:19:03,720 --> 00:19:06,560
Because this is going to
determine a lot about the kind

296
00:19:06,560 --> 00:19:07,920
of conversations we're going to
have.

297
00:19:07,920 --> 00:19:11,760
Because, you know, your
motivation is to prove them

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00:19:11,760 --> 00:19:14,960
wrong.
Then I'm sorry, you're partaking

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00:19:14,960 --> 00:19:17,960
of the same spirit that is
dividing the country.

300
00:19:19,480 --> 00:19:22,040
But we're not there to prove
anybody wrong.

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00:19:22,520 --> 00:19:29,600
We what we should be doing is
recognizing that their soul has

302
00:19:29,600 --> 00:19:31,560
inherent value in the eyes of
God.

303
00:19:32,960 --> 00:19:37,240
And if, if it were possible and
if we have the the ability to

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00:19:37,240 --> 00:19:42,480
remove ourselves from our place
and say we hold the priesthood,

305
00:19:44,080 --> 00:19:49,320
we should be acting for God.
He is the father of all of these

306
00:19:49,320 --> 00:19:52,480
children.
Now, if that was my child who

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00:19:52,480 --> 00:19:56,440
was led astray, or maybe they
have a false belief or a false

308
00:19:56,440 --> 00:20:00,080
ideology in this in this world
and we understand some of the

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00:20:00,080 --> 00:20:06,280
truth, how would he deal with
them to help them, not just

310
00:20:07,240 --> 00:20:10,320
throw them to the wolves or
prove them wrong or man, if they

311
00:20:10,320 --> 00:20:13,760
would just die, then all this
problem would go away.

312
00:20:15,360 --> 00:20:19,600
What do you think he would do?
And in reality, for those of us

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00:20:19,600 --> 00:20:21,600
who believe.
What does he do?

314
00:20:22,960 --> 00:20:24,720
He continues to work with
people.

315
00:20:25,160 --> 00:20:29,440
You lay out the truth in a plain
and clear manner and say, you

316
00:20:29,440 --> 00:20:32,640
know, this is this is the way
that it is.

317
00:20:33,040 --> 00:20:39,040
We have to be very clear and I
would say concise on what the

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00:20:39,040 --> 00:20:43,920
truth is and make sure that we
don't fudge.

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00:20:43,920 --> 00:20:49,480
We're not lying in any way
because there's always going to

320
00:20:49,480 --> 00:20:55,320
be that temptation.
You know, when I was before I

321
00:20:55,320 --> 00:20:59,920
was married in a little after, I
was involved with the Republican

322
00:20:59,920 --> 00:21:04,920
Party in my area and I was the
way it is in Utah.

323
00:21:05,320 --> 00:21:09,920
They have the Republican Party
divided down into, they call

324
00:21:09,920 --> 00:21:12,480
them, you know, little vectors
or something.

325
00:21:12,480 --> 00:21:15,600
There's a word, I can't remember
it, but but they have delegates

326
00:21:15,600 --> 00:21:19,560
from each of these areas that
the people in the area are

327
00:21:19,560 --> 00:21:21,440
supposed to vote part of the
Republican Party.

328
00:21:21,760 --> 00:21:25,960
Well, these delegates, which I
was one of them, they there's

329
00:21:25,960 --> 00:21:32,440
like 2500 of us in the state and
our vote is what gets a

330
00:21:32,440 --> 00:21:35,240
candidate on the Republican
ballot for Utah.

331
00:21:36,360 --> 00:21:41,560
So we kind of became a rare item
and we got to meet, you know,

332
00:21:41,880 --> 00:21:45,400
some of the senators and some of
the the representatives and the

333
00:21:45,400 --> 00:21:48,040
governors and all these people
who are trying to get on the

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00:21:48,040 --> 00:21:49,440
ballot.
And they would take us to

335
00:21:49,440 --> 00:21:52,440
breakfast and they would do
their spill and try to get our

336
00:21:52,440 --> 00:21:55,760
vote.
But I got out of it for one

337
00:21:55,760 --> 00:22:01,520
reason, because there was lying
all the way around.

338
00:22:01,840 --> 00:22:04,080
And this is this is the
Republican Party.

339
00:22:04,080 --> 00:22:07,200
This is the one that's, you
know, many people believe is

340
00:22:07,200 --> 00:22:08,880
supposed to be standing up for
truth.

341
00:22:09,280 --> 00:22:12,720
And they were, they were snakes.
They were going behind people's

342
00:22:12,720 --> 00:22:16,880
back and, and lying and, and
swearing falsely and all the

343
00:22:16,880 --> 00:22:19,360
things that we're not in keeping
with my faith.

344
00:22:20,240 --> 00:22:24,400
And I said, I have to resign.
I can't, I can't go to my people

345
00:22:24,400 --> 00:22:28,000
in my area that I'm supposed to
represent and say, yeah, vote

346
00:22:28,000 --> 00:22:30,800
for this guy.
He's less of a snake than the

347
00:22:30,800 --> 00:22:33,920
other guy.
I can't do that in good

348
00:22:33,920 --> 00:22:39,400
conscience, you know, and but
yet, so as we start interacting

349
00:22:39,400 --> 00:22:43,000
with the outside world and many
people have we've I realize

350
00:22:43,000 --> 00:22:46,760
people have already been doing
this, but make sure that we're

351
00:22:46,760 --> 00:22:49,600
honest and truthful in
everything we do.

352
00:22:50,520 --> 00:22:56,520
You know, sometimes it's hard
for us to say, to want to tell

353
00:22:56,520 --> 00:23:01,320
the truth because some of us
that grew up in this society

354
00:23:02,360 --> 00:23:04,400
where, you know, our parents
were polygamists, our

355
00:23:04,400 --> 00:23:08,400
grandparents were polygamists.
And there's always a fear that

356
00:23:08,400 --> 00:23:13,080
the law is going to take you and
throw you in jail and be wise

357
00:23:13,080 --> 00:23:16,160
about it.
You know, don't don't cast your

358
00:23:16,160 --> 00:23:20,600
pearls before swine, as it were,
but you can stand up and defend

359
00:23:20,600 --> 00:23:26,040
the truth and say, you know,
this is this is what we need

360
00:23:26,040 --> 00:23:30,960
today.
Because without, I'll say that

361
00:23:30,960 --> 00:23:35,440
this way, there's a way to
communicate the truth in a

362
00:23:35,440 --> 00:23:42,800
compassionate and a loving way
that it may be offensive to

363
00:23:42,800 --> 00:23:47,200
people whose consciences are
plucked perhaps or pricked a

364
00:23:47,200 --> 00:23:50,360
little bit, but it's not meant
to be offensive.

365
00:23:50,600 --> 00:23:55,240
That's not the motivation that
you've decided to serve these

366
00:23:55,240 --> 00:24:00,840
people.
And I promise if, if people

367
00:24:00,840 --> 00:24:04,760
would approach other individuals
as though they have inherent

368
00:24:04,760 --> 00:24:10,320
value and bless them, you will
see massive change in their

369
00:24:10,320 --> 00:24:12,800
life.
Not very many of us are going to

370
00:24:12,800 --> 00:24:15,080
be able to reach millions of
people.

371
00:24:16,520 --> 00:24:20,560
We just, we have our circle of
influence, our friends, our

372
00:24:20,560 --> 00:24:23,480
neighbors, the ones we come in
contact with.

373
00:24:24,080 --> 00:24:28,400
We really ought to start there.
So we have a neighbor who

374
00:24:28,520 --> 00:24:30,880
believes something totally
different than us.

375
00:24:31,400 --> 00:24:37,480
I remember growing up, we had
neighbors who were Muslim and we

376
00:24:37,480 --> 00:24:39,280
actually got along with them
really, really good.

377
00:24:39,280 --> 00:24:42,080
They weren't extremists or
anything, but they kept to their

378
00:24:42,080 --> 00:24:44,800
faith, We kept to ours and we
found out there was lots of

379
00:24:44,800 --> 00:24:51,520
areas that we overlap and I, I
really appreciated them.

380
00:24:51,680 --> 00:24:55,160
They were good neighbors.
Now, we didn't sit down and talk

381
00:24:55,160 --> 00:24:58,400
to Joseph Smith or any of that,
but I could still speak the

382
00:24:58,400 --> 00:25:02,360
truth with them.
And I was young, but I just that

383
00:25:02,360 --> 00:25:05,040
made an impression on me as a
young person.

384
00:25:05,040 --> 00:25:08,840
So in our circle of influence,
what do we do to help bless

385
00:25:08,840 --> 00:25:12,440
people?
What are we willing to do, you

386
00:25:12,440 --> 00:25:15,040
know?
You are that is the question,

387
00:25:15,080 --> 00:25:16,840
right.
And you asked another question,

388
00:25:17,320 --> 00:25:19,560
you know, or or I shouldn't say
question, but you brought some

389
00:25:19,560 --> 00:25:22,000
stuff up here that I think is
really pertinent to the

390
00:25:22,000 --> 00:25:26,960
conversation at hand.
And you, you talked about, yes,

391
00:25:26,960 --> 00:25:29,920
there there is absolute truth
and, and we have some of that

392
00:25:29,960 --> 00:25:34,000
right.
But what good is being right or

393
00:25:34,000 --> 00:25:37,200
having the truth if you can't
bring others along with?

394
00:25:37,200 --> 00:25:43,160
You What good is it?
I, I, I contend it might be good

395
00:25:43,160 --> 00:25:44,560
for you.
It's going to be good for your

396
00:25:44,560 --> 00:25:47,840
family.
But I do believe when when we

397
00:25:47,840 --> 00:25:50,240
get to the other side, the
Lord's going to ask, what'd you

398
00:25:50,240 --> 00:25:52,480
do with?
With all that truth I gave you.

399
00:25:53,120 --> 00:25:56,200
Right.
Well, Lord, I, I, I went out and

400
00:25:56,200 --> 00:25:59,040
I defended it.
Yeah, but you didn't bring

401
00:25:59,040 --> 00:26:02,040
anybody with you.
What good is it?

402
00:26:02,880 --> 00:26:06,280
And I'm, I'm reminded, gosh, I'm
going to get beat up over this

403
00:26:06,280 --> 00:26:09,520
because I get beat up over every
time I bring up Abraham Lincoln

404
00:26:09,760 --> 00:26:12,240
on on the podcast because it's a
mixed bag, right?

405
00:26:12,600 --> 00:26:17,720
I understand Lincoln took
extreme executive privilege

406
00:26:17,720 --> 00:26:21,800
there to a new level.
But there's an interesting

407
00:26:22,440 --> 00:26:27,720
account of Lincoln trying to
talk to Thaddeus Stevens when

408
00:26:27,720 --> 00:26:29,920
they were trying to pass an
amendment.

409
00:26:30,680 --> 00:26:33,840
Now, for anyone who doesn't
know, Thaddeus Stevens was a

410
00:26:34,000 --> 00:26:37,320
firebrand.
I mean, he was pushing for that

411
00:26:37,320 --> 00:26:38,960
amendment like nobody's
business.

412
00:26:38,960 --> 00:26:41,040
And come hell or high water,
didn't matter.

413
00:26:41,040 --> 00:26:44,520
He's going forward.
He's just going to, like,

414
00:26:44,520 --> 00:26:49,360
bulldoze his way through there.
And Lincoln realizes this is

415
00:26:49,360 --> 00:26:53,080
going to be a problem, right?
Lincoln feels like he's correct,

416
00:26:53,360 --> 00:26:55,720
but it's a problem in the way
he's delivering it.

417
00:26:56,640 --> 00:26:59,760
So there was a party at the
White House and you can find

418
00:26:59,760 --> 00:27:01,600
this account in the book Team of
Rivals.

419
00:27:02,560 --> 00:27:06,480
It's a great book.
And he's talking to Thaddeus

420
00:27:06,480 --> 00:27:10,480
Stevens and he tells a story
about when he was surveying.

421
00:27:11,200 --> 00:27:15,120
And he said, you know, for many
years I surveyed and he said,

422
00:27:15,720 --> 00:27:19,440
and it's true that the compass
will point you N, but the

423
00:27:19,440 --> 00:27:24,960
compass has no advice about the
various chasms, swamps, deserts

424
00:27:25,080 --> 00:27:27,280
or bodies of water that you will
encounter.

425
00:27:28,480 --> 00:27:31,360
And what good is it to know
which direction you're heading

426
00:27:31,720 --> 00:27:36,320
if you end up finding a hole and
falling into it, right?

427
00:27:36,640 --> 00:27:39,400
So you never sacrifice on the
truth.

428
00:27:39,400 --> 00:27:41,840
You never back down from
principles that are true.

429
00:27:43,280 --> 00:27:47,160
But just like Paul was,
sometimes you got to figure out

430
00:27:47,160 --> 00:27:51,720
a different way of being able to
communicate that so that you can

431
00:27:51,720 --> 00:27:56,360
get the message across.
The other thing I'll say is that

432
00:27:56,360 --> 00:28:01,400
too often when we are having
discussions and and look, I want

433
00:28:01,400 --> 00:28:02,960
to say I am.
Guilty of this?

434
00:28:03,520 --> 00:28:07,680
I'm not saying I am without sin
when it comes to this, but

435
00:28:07,680 --> 00:28:10,440
sometimes we get arguing about
stuff and we just.

436
00:28:10,440 --> 00:28:13,240
Want to win?
Right above all else, and you're

437
00:28:13,240 --> 00:28:15,160
talking to a guy who's hyper
competitive.

438
00:28:15,560 --> 00:28:19,320
I love to win and I hate to
lose.

439
00:28:19,520 --> 00:28:21,840
I hate to lose more than I love
to win, right?

440
00:28:21,840 --> 00:28:23,560
I mean that kind of competitive
fire.

441
00:28:25,160 --> 00:28:28,440
But.
I think the guys who really make

442
00:28:28,440 --> 00:28:32,160
a difference are the guys who
first look to reconciliate

443
00:28:32,280 --> 00:28:35,800
before winning.
And I think that's kind of what

444
00:28:35,800 --> 00:28:38,320
what you're alluding to there.
As you say, how are we going to

445
00:28:38,320 --> 00:28:41,720
bless them, right?
You can't bless somebody if you

446
00:28:41,720 --> 00:28:46,120
would whore abhor them, right?
And certainly some people are

447
00:28:46,120 --> 00:28:51,120
just going to be beyond
touching, right?

448
00:28:51,120 --> 00:28:54,360
That they've, they've just,
they've isolated themselves in a

449
00:28:54,360 --> 00:28:56,320
place.
Those folks, I think you just

450
00:28:56,320 --> 00:28:58,560
got to kind of like move on
from.

451
00:28:58,880 --> 00:29:03,400
But I believe that the vast
majority of humanity hangs in

452
00:29:03,400 --> 00:29:06,880
the balance.
And as we share this truth,

453
00:29:07,440 --> 00:29:09,840
they're, they're going to want
to, we're going to want to be

454
00:29:09,840 --> 00:29:13,640
very careful on how we do it.
I the other.

455
00:29:13,640 --> 00:29:16,920
Thing that that came to mind as
you were talking there, Dave, is

456
00:29:16,920 --> 00:29:19,360
when I first came into
Mormonism, I came in in.

457
00:29:19,360 --> 00:29:22,120
Exactly the right place.
I mean, the Lord absolutely

458
00:29:22,120 --> 00:29:25,800
guided me into the war ward
boundaries that I would become a

459
00:29:25,800 --> 00:29:30,480
Mormon in.
And I remember one night I was

460
00:29:30,480 --> 00:29:35,600
thinking, really, I'm just the
product of the love that people

461
00:29:35,600 --> 00:29:39,760
have poured into me, right?
I mean, and I think we all are.

462
00:29:40,240 --> 00:29:42,800
And for some people, they didn't
get that.

463
00:29:43,280 --> 00:29:47,160
And that leads to a lot of
things and I think we have to be

464
00:29:47,160 --> 00:29:49,520
cognizant of that fact too as we
go about this.

465
00:29:49,520 --> 00:29:52,800
But anyway, just kind of some
side tangents there.

466
00:29:52,960 --> 00:29:58,160
Oh, it's super good, you know,
as we one of the things that

467
00:29:58,160 --> 00:30:02,040
comes to mind, and I think this
is so important because you will

468
00:30:02,040 --> 00:30:07,560
hear, you know, as we start
interacting with with all of the

469
00:30:07,560 --> 00:30:10,960
different people who may think
different, or if we start, if we

470
00:30:10,960 --> 00:30:15,520
feel that we're supposed to
stand up for truth, what does

471
00:30:15,520 --> 00:30:17,880
the Lord tell us to do in
relation to it?

472
00:30:17,880 --> 00:30:21,480
And I keep, I keep going back to
this in my mind because, you

473
00:30:21,480 --> 00:30:24,800
know, does he say anything about
how to deal with people who are

474
00:30:24,800 --> 00:30:29,280
not of your faith, people who
think different than you, you

475
00:30:29,280 --> 00:30:32,360
know, and, and it sure seems
like I got a page here and it's

476
00:30:32,360 --> 00:30:36,000
just full of quotes and they're
all about brotherly love, all

477
00:30:36,000 --> 00:30:39,360
about brotherly kindness, you
know, on and on.

478
00:30:39,360 --> 00:30:42,840
Love the brotherhood, love his
brethren.

479
00:30:43,240 --> 00:30:46,120
And then, you know, he that
loveth his brother abideth in

480
00:30:46,120 --> 00:30:54,680
the light and there's so our
brother and our sister is all of

481
00:30:54,680 --> 00:30:58,120
God's children.
We should have this love for

482
00:30:58,120 --> 00:31:02,160
each other and this desire to
serve and this desire to bless.

483
00:31:03,280 --> 00:31:09,040
So one of the things that comes
up all the time when you start

484
00:31:09,040 --> 00:31:13,120
interacting with people is how
are you going to make a

485
00:31:13,120 --> 00:31:19,720
difference in their life if you
have no, what we call moral

486
00:31:19,720 --> 00:31:25,200
authority with them?
Like if, if there's anybody out

487
00:31:25,200 --> 00:31:28,320
there that says, how do I start
this process?

488
00:31:29,000 --> 00:31:32,680
Well, the scriptures are full.
It starts right here.

489
00:31:34,960 --> 00:31:40,400
What can you do today to make
you a better person?

490
00:31:41,320 --> 00:31:45,840
What can you do to to, you know,
maybe be a little more kind or

491
00:31:46,360 --> 00:31:54,480
or at least show somebody that
you care about them because of

492
00:31:54,480 --> 00:31:59,120
who they are, not what they do
or what they stand for.

493
00:31:59,960 --> 00:32:01,800
You want to make a difference in
somebody's life.

494
00:32:03,240 --> 00:32:06,840
Show them that.
And if you don't feel like you

495
00:32:06,840 --> 00:32:10,000
can show them that you need to
find something within yourself.

496
00:32:10,680 --> 00:32:14,480
And I'll tell you, hands down
for all of us religious people,

497
00:32:14,560 --> 00:32:17,600
which this is primarily your
audience, right?

498
00:32:18,840 --> 00:32:23,160
You got to get close to your
Father in heaven in a real way.

499
00:32:24,440 --> 00:32:28,120
And if you can't see someone
else's value, ask him.

500
00:32:29,120 --> 00:32:34,640
Help me see this person as you
see them, because I'm not seeing

501
00:32:34,640 --> 00:32:36,600
it.
I'm seeing somebody that I would

502
00:32:36,600 --> 00:32:39,360
just as soon kick to the side
and not have anything to do

503
00:32:39,360 --> 00:32:44,960
with, you know, Jesus comes,
Jesus comes down and he he does

504
00:32:44,960 --> 00:32:51,360
his ministry amongst the poor
and the despised, amongst men.

505
00:32:52,200 --> 00:32:57,000
Almanamulek preach the gospel to
the poor and the cast out and

506
00:32:57,000 --> 00:33:01,440
the and the trodden down because
they're usually the people who

507
00:33:01,440 --> 00:33:06,000
are humble.
But also it shows something if

508
00:33:06,000 --> 00:33:11,240
you just want to befriend the
powerful, Are you sure your

509
00:33:11,240 --> 00:33:14,240
motives are right?
What do you really think's going

510
00:33:14,240 --> 00:33:17,760
on?
And not to say that the powerful

511
00:33:17,760 --> 00:33:21,080
don't have value.
You know, I'm reminded of King

512
00:33:21,080 --> 00:33:25,520
Agrippa in the New Testament
where he tells Paul, thou almost

513
00:33:25,520 --> 00:33:28,320
persuadest me to be a Christian,
you know, because he's preaching

514
00:33:28,320 --> 00:33:31,920
to the king.
So we have responsibilities

515
00:33:31,920 --> 00:33:35,000
there, too.
And even with that, we should be

516
00:33:35,000 --> 00:33:40,560
sure of ourself, sure of our
testimony, and preach the

517
00:33:40,560 --> 00:33:45,160
principles of godliness.
Because you can create all the

518
00:33:45,160 --> 00:33:48,960
laws you want for a country.
It actually isn't going to make

519
00:33:48,960 --> 00:33:53,280
good people.
If you don't have morality then

520
00:33:53,280 --> 00:33:56,720
laws don't do anything.
Nope, Nope.

521
00:33:56,840 --> 00:34:02,360
Look, this idea of, of, and, and
I hate to say this, the idea of

522
00:34:02,360 --> 00:34:06,040
trying to legislate morality,
it's kind of a losing battle,

523
00:34:06,160 --> 00:34:08,400
right?
You might get someone to change

524
00:34:08,400 --> 00:34:11,960
their behavior, but you haven't
really changed the heart, right?

525
00:34:12,280 --> 00:34:16,840
And I tend as as a guy who
struggled with addiction early

526
00:34:16,840 --> 00:34:19,920
in his life, I can tell you
until there's a change of heart,

527
00:34:20,080 --> 00:34:26,639
you will find whatever reason it
is to revert back to a revert

528
00:34:26,639 --> 00:34:29,360
back to those old ways.
You need something to change the

529
00:34:29,360 --> 00:34:33,760
heart that will will extract
those things from from your

530
00:34:33,760 --> 00:34:36,719
heart.
I I don't think it's it's a

531
00:34:36,719 --> 00:34:40,440
coincidence that Christ talks
about becoming new at baptism,

532
00:34:40,560 --> 00:34:42,960
right.
I think that there is this idea

533
00:34:42,960 --> 00:34:47,440
of letting the old you die as
you come forward something else

534
00:34:47,440 --> 00:34:50,560
right and writing those
commandments upon the heart so

535
00:34:50,560 --> 00:34:52,880
that they're no longer just
stone their flesh right.

536
00:34:52,880 --> 00:34:55,880
They're they're in US and.
And you're right.

537
00:34:58,360 --> 00:35:01,920
We want to reach, let's look at
the gospel, right?

538
00:35:01,920 --> 00:35:06,680
If we're talking the gospel of
someone and if our goal is, you

539
00:35:06,680 --> 00:35:11,040
know, someone wants to learn the
gospel, I contend that you're

540
00:35:11,040 --> 00:35:14,800
going to have a really hard time
helping the Spirit convert

541
00:35:14,800 --> 00:35:17,480
anybody if they don't feel a
love coming from you.

542
00:35:18,760 --> 00:35:22,160
Right, if you're just out there
to check a box like.

543
00:35:22,160 --> 00:35:25,480
Yep, did my missionary work?
That's good, but you're not

544
00:35:25,480 --> 00:35:27,120
going to be real effective,
right?

545
00:35:27,120 --> 00:35:30,360
I mean, that's a good place to
start, but that's not certainly

546
00:35:30,360 --> 00:35:35,720
where you want that to end.
Yeah, and you know, we've been

547
00:35:35,720 --> 00:35:39,880
talking a lot about the
political spectrum, but there's

548
00:35:39,880 --> 00:35:43,080
something even a little deeper
we can dive into in relation to

549
00:35:43,440 --> 00:35:47,440
the Restoration.
You know, why was Heber C

550
00:35:47,440 --> 00:35:50,760
Kimball so effective in in
England?

551
00:35:51,440 --> 00:35:54,080
Was it just because he was a man
full of the spirit and he could,

552
00:35:54,520 --> 00:35:56,840
he could preach like nobody's
business?

553
00:35:56,840 --> 00:35:58,520
Or maybe he was eloquent with
words?

554
00:35:58,880 --> 00:36:01,120
Well, we know he wasn't.
We know that he was.

555
00:36:01,440 --> 00:36:04,600
I mean, if you read his, his
letters, like his spelling and

556
00:36:05,000 --> 00:36:10,760
grammar was atrocious.
But but it says something when

557
00:36:10,760 --> 00:36:15,120
there's that one story and you
know somebody who recently read

558
00:36:15,120 --> 00:36:18,520
it could remember it way better.
But when he comes to that one

559
00:36:18,520 --> 00:36:22,040
town and all the people start
laying out their coats for him

560
00:36:22,040 --> 00:36:28,000
to walk on, you know, you don't
do that for someone who you

561
00:36:28,000 --> 00:36:31,600
think is being a bully or is a
dictator because of their

562
00:36:31,600 --> 00:36:38,000
position is somebody they I
guarantee they genuinely felt

563
00:36:38,400 --> 00:36:43,000
the love in his heart for them.
And I think it was the same for

564
00:36:43,000 --> 00:36:46,160
the other ones, the 12 for
Brigham and for the other

565
00:36:46,160 --> 00:36:50,920
members that that their, their
preaching was so effective

566
00:36:51,600 --> 00:36:53,440
because of the spirit that they
carried.

567
00:36:53,440 --> 00:36:55,520
And it wasn't just the message
they had.

568
00:36:55,600 --> 00:36:59,360
It had to be something inside,
had to be that love that they

569
00:36:59,360 --> 00:37:01,600
had for them that you could
feel.

570
00:37:01,920 --> 00:37:05,960
And I've been involved in
missionary work, not the same

571
00:37:05,960 --> 00:37:08,800
kind as them.
I haven't been out preaching on

572
00:37:08,800 --> 00:37:13,000
street corners in London, but
interacting with people coming

573
00:37:13,000 --> 00:37:15,880
from the church and from
Christianity and other places

574
00:37:15,880 --> 00:37:17,920
that are interested in the
fullness of the gospel.

575
00:37:18,880 --> 00:37:22,440
And I'll tell you, friends
first, converts later.

576
00:37:24,040 --> 00:37:27,520
Be a friend to somebody because
it's so rare out there.

577
00:37:28,760 --> 00:37:32,240
Listen to their story, try to
understand where they're coming

578
00:37:32,240 --> 00:37:35,240
from.
Sympathize with them, suffer

579
00:37:35,240 --> 00:37:39,200
with them if need be, which is
almost always going to be the

580
00:37:39,200 --> 00:37:42,440
case.
You know, people are lonely.

581
00:37:43,120 --> 00:37:48,760
They crave this, this attachment
and this friendship because who

582
00:37:48,760 --> 00:37:53,000
can they trust?
You know, Joseph says this and

583
00:37:53,000 --> 00:37:55,520
Joseph Smith says this.
You know, men that you think

584
00:37:55,520 --> 00:37:58,520
will be your friends and the
second you teach them a doctrine

585
00:37:58,520 --> 00:38:01,120
they don't agree with, they'll
come for your life.

586
00:38:01,120 --> 00:38:03,440
You know, something like that.
You probably remember the quote

587
00:38:03,440 --> 00:38:07,440
better, but.
But there's something about

588
00:38:07,440 --> 00:38:11,120
being a friend that.
No, it really.

589
00:38:11,120 --> 00:38:14,800
Gets people.
It, it is so, so true.

590
00:38:15,240 --> 00:38:18,520
And look, I I want to say this,
I don't want anyone to think

591
00:38:18,520 --> 00:38:21,360
that.
You have to get to this place to

592
00:38:21,360 --> 00:38:22,720
start.
Right, that that.

593
00:38:23,080 --> 00:38:26,880
That you're, you're going to
just need to sequester yourself

594
00:38:26,880 --> 00:38:30,160
in a room and beat yourself up
until you get to that point

595
00:38:30,160 --> 00:38:31,600
where you just have love for all
men.

596
00:38:31,600 --> 00:38:33,560
I don't think it really works
that way.

597
00:38:33,560 --> 00:38:36,960
It I think it's like any, any
other thing we try to learn and

598
00:38:36,960 --> 00:38:41,960
to to grow a good habit and it's
going to take time.

599
00:38:41,960 --> 00:38:44,560
It's going to take practice more
than time.

600
00:38:46,360 --> 00:38:49,240
There, there.
There's a story here that that

601
00:38:49,240 --> 00:38:56,320
happened to me once when I was
is still in the LDS church.

602
00:38:56,320 --> 00:39:00,520
This was right before we left
Idaho to move to North Dakota.

603
00:39:01,400 --> 00:39:03,640
Few years back I started to get
the feeling that we, as

604
00:39:03,640 --> 00:39:06,840
fundamentalists and orthodox
Mormons, we need our own stuff.

605
00:39:07,200 --> 00:39:09,760
Up to now, we've been able to
buy and purchase all of our

606
00:39:09,760 --> 00:39:13,520
scriptures, books, art, and
music from other restoration

607
00:39:13,520 --> 00:39:15,720
organizations, and that's been
good.

608
00:39:15,920 --> 00:39:18,520
But there's no guarantee it's
going to remain that way.

609
00:39:19,040 --> 00:39:22,440
Also, it can be a bit tricky as
you scour the Internet trying to

610
00:39:22,440 --> 00:39:25,640
find all the books from your
favorite fundamentalist or

611
00:39:25,640 --> 00:39:28,960
orthodox Mormon authors.
As I thought about this, I feel

612
00:39:28,960 --> 00:39:31,840
like I was really given a
solution now through the hard

613
00:39:31,840 --> 00:39:34,880
work of others, because let's
face it, I'm the guy least

614
00:39:34,880 --> 00:39:37,000
qualified in all the world to
build a website.

615
00:39:37,440 --> 00:39:40,720
I'm happy to present to you 1830
mercantile.org.

616
00:39:41,320 --> 00:39:44,360
Right now on the website you can
see that we have all the books

617
00:39:44,360 --> 00:39:47,400
that have ever been written by 4
authors, including names like

618
00:39:47,400 --> 00:39:51,120
Drew, Briny and Ogdenkraut.
Also very soon there will be a

619
00:39:51,120 --> 00:39:55,760
link to buy art and music all
produced by Mormons with a deep

620
00:39:55,760 --> 00:39:59,120
love for the restored gospel.
There's also places for you to

621
00:39:59,120 --> 00:40:03,480
get free resources where you can
find podcasts, videos, classes,

622
00:40:03,480 --> 00:40:07,160
and other presentations.
Also coming very soon there will

623
00:40:07,160 --> 00:40:10,360
be a place for events where you
can list the events from your

624
00:40:10,360 --> 00:40:14,160
organization so that you can get
the most out of that attendance.

625
00:40:14,680 --> 00:40:17,080
Now this can be as big as you
want it to be.

626
00:40:17,080 --> 00:40:20,120
It's all up to you guys out
there if you want to buy and

627
00:40:20,120 --> 00:40:22,880
post things on here.
Now, if you're someone who

628
00:40:22,880 --> 00:40:26,080
produces something that you feel
like others can benefit from,

629
00:40:26,400 --> 00:40:29,840
1830 Mercantile is a place where
you can make all of those

630
00:40:29,840 --> 00:40:33,200
products available for purchase.
All you need to do is drop me an

631
00:40:33,200 --> 00:40:36,320
e-mail at
mormonrenegade@gmail.com and put

632
00:40:36,320 --> 00:40:40,600
1830 in in the title of that
e-mail with a short message and

633
00:40:40,600 --> 00:40:43,760
either myself or someone else
from the 1830 Mercantile team

634
00:40:44,000 --> 00:40:46,760
will reach out to you so we can
get your product up there on the

635
00:40:46,760 --> 00:40:51,080
site.
Now to make sure that all the

636
00:40:51,080 --> 00:40:54,720
products that we offer are
affordable and to ensure that

637
00:40:54,720 --> 00:40:59,240
the vast majority of the profits
go to the producer, the website

638
00:40:59,240 --> 00:41:03,160
percentage is only three to 4%
of the total cost.

639
00:41:03,160 --> 00:41:05,960
And that's just so I can pay the
pros that have created this

640
00:41:05,960 --> 00:41:08,520
website and keep the lights on
the website itself.

641
00:41:09,280 --> 00:41:12,400
Finally, by making some of your
purchases at 1830

642
00:41:12,400 --> 00:41:15,760
mercantile.org, you'll be
supporting folks whose

643
00:41:15,760 --> 00:41:19,040
principles and morals are close,
if not the same as yours.

644
00:41:19,240 --> 00:41:22,720
At the same time not giving your
money away to people who stand

645
00:41:22,720 --> 00:41:24,720
against everything you stand
for.

646
00:41:25,080 --> 00:41:28,080
So no matter if you're looking
to make a purchase or you're a

647
00:41:28,080 --> 00:41:31,320
seller that wants to get your
products listed, head on over to

648
00:41:31,320 --> 00:41:36,040
1830 mercantile.org today.
Drop me an e-mail and we'll make

649
00:41:36,040 --> 00:41:37,360
sure that we get back out to
you.

650
00:41:37,560 --> 00:41:42,000
Now back to the show.
We were in, I was in a ward in,

651
00:41:43,040 --> 00:41:48,480
in Caldwell, ID, and I was in
that ward all of a week and a

652
00:41:48,480 --> 00:41:52,840
half and I get a phone call from
the Bishop saying, hey, can you

653
00:41:52,840 --> 00:41:54,720
come in and meet with me and the
state president?

654
00:41:55,120 --> 00:41:58,440
I'm like, Oh no.
Right.

655
00:41:59,040 --> 00:42:03,000
And I.
I go in and they're like, Hey,

656
00:42:03,000 --> 00:42:05,600
we would like you to be the ward
mission leader.

657
00:42:06,720 --> 00:42:10,080
And I'm like, I, I don't know
anybody, right.

658
00:42:10,200 --> 00:42:14,880
And like I, I don't know anyone
I don't know, like, I barely

659
00:42:14,880 --> 00:42:16,800
know you.
And that's only because you

660
00:42:16,800 --> 00:42:18,920
first shook my hand and
introduced yourself and then

661
00:42:18,920 --> 00:42:21,800
called me like you, you got the
wrong guy here.

662
00:42:21,800 --> 00:42:24,600
I, I'm not saying you don't get
revelation, but that phone line

663
00:42:24,600 --> 00:42:28,240
may have been a little fuzzy.
And he's like, look, I'm, I'm

664
00:42:28,240 --> 00:42:33,280
certain about this.
I'm like, all right, so you

665
00:42:33,280 --> 00:42:36,680
know, I take the calling and
that first week he comes in and

666
00:42:36,680 --> 00:42:39,880
he says, OK, look, we're going
to break you in real nice and

667
00:42:39,880 --> 00:42:41,480
easy.
I don't want to overwhelm you.

668
00:42:42,000 --> 00:42:44,960
You know, I get that you're new
to to this ward, so we're going

669
00:42:44,960 --> 00:42:46,520
to break you in really nice and
easy.

670
00:42:48,760 --> 00:42:52,760
Then a week later, a 70 shows up
from Salt Lake and says, Hey, we

671
00:42:52,760 --> 00:42:56,200
need to really get going here.
There are people out there that

672
00:42:56,200 --> 00:42:59,000
are suffering that can use the
gospel and they're probably on

673
00:42:59,000 --> 00:43:01,880
your inactive roles, is what it
what he said.

674
00:43:02,560 --> 00:43:05,280
And so he said, and I'll never
forget it.

675
00:43:05,280 --> 00:43:07,480
He pointed, he, he kind of
pointed out towards the

676
00:43:07,480 --> 00:43:10,080
audience, he didn't know who I
was obviously, but he pointed

677
00:43:10,080 --> 00:43:13,200
out to the to the audience, he's
like, and you ward mission

678
00:43:13,200 --> 00:43:15,520
leaders, you need to spearhead
this.

679
00:43:16,240 --> 00:43:24,400
And I was like, no, no.
And so I the, the, the sacrament

680
00:43:24,400 --> 00:43:27,520
meeting ends and I, I just lock
eyes with my Bishop and I just

681
00:43:27,520 --> 00:43:28,840
kind of give him one of these,
right?

682
00:43:28,840 --> 00:43:31,000
Come here.
And he comes walking over.

683
00:43:31,000 --> 00:43:33,640
He's like, yeah, you're not
getting broke in easy.

684
00:43:33,640 --> 00:43:36,920
Sorry about this, right?
And so we next just go and he

685
00:43:36,920 --> 00:43:38,480
starts printing me the rolls,
right?

686
00:43:38,840 --> 00:43:41,720
And he starts, you know, telling
me the people that are inactive,

687
00:43:41,720 --> 00:43:43,720
he hadn't seen for a while or
ever.

688
00:43:44,320 --> 00:43:46,520
And he said, why don't you and
your mission, your award

689
00:43:46,520 --> 00:43:48,400
missionaries, go out and make
contact with these?

690
00:43:48,400 --> 00:43:51,920
Folks.
And there was one family named

691
00:43:51,920 --> 00:43:58,160
the CEO family.
And I had tried and tried to,

692
00:43:58,320 --> 00:44:01,320
to, to get there when someone
was home, right.

693
00:44:01,720 --> 00:44:05,760
I knocked on the door a few
times and got a kid or two, but

694
00:44:05,760 --> 00:44:10,320
really not much else.
And then as as everyone's well.

695
00:44:10,320 --> 00:44:11,680
Aware I love football.
Right.

696
00:44:11,680 --> 00:44:14,680
And it's Monday night.
My team is playing, right?

697
00:44:14,680 --> 00:44:17,280
I got a vested interest.
It's been a long day at work.

698
00:44:17,280 --> 00:44:19,200
I'm like, yeah, I'm just coming
home.

699
00:44:19,200 --> 00:44:22,000
I'm going to order a pizza, and
I'm going to watch some

700
00:44:22,000 --> 00:44:25,800
football, right?
So I get comfortable and like

701
00:44:26,400 --> 00:44:29,080
about midway through the second
quarter, I get this prompting

702
00:44:29,080 --> 00:44:31,520
like you should go try the Seals
again.

703
00:44:32,040 --> 00:44:34,720
And I'm like.
No, I've tried a whole bunch and

704
00:44:34,720 --> 00:44:39,000
they're never there.
I'm not doing it and I just keep

705
00:44:39,000 --> 00:44:42,240
watching the game and it's just,
it's that little thing in the

706
00:44:42,240 --> 00:44:44,840
back of your mind, right?
You, I, I, I hope you know what

707
00:44:44,840 --> 00:44:46,520
I'm talking about.
I hope I'm not the only guy

708
00:44:46,520 --> 00:44:48,800
that's stubborn, but just in the
back of your mind.

709
00:44:48,800 --> 00:44:50,320
Just go, just go.
Just go.

710
00:44:50,640 --> 00:44:53,320
Finally I get to halftime and
I'm like, fine, I'll go.

711
00:44:53,400 --> 00:44:55,400
I'll go.
I'll miss part of my game, but

712
00:44:55,400 --> 00:44:56,840
I'll go.
So I get in my.

713
00:44:56,840 --> 00:45:00,000
Car I drive.
You know, the couple blocks down

714
00:45:00,000 --> 00:45:03,880
the road, I get out, I knock on
the door, the husband answers

715
00:45:03,880 --> 00:45:06,760
the door and you can tell
immediately he is not happy to

716
00:45:06,760 --> 00:45:09,720
see me, right?
And I'm like, hey, my name is

717
00:45:09,720 --> 00:45:11,320
Dave.
I'm from the local ward.

718
00:45:11,320 --> 00:45:13,840
And I can see his wife is
standing right, right behind

719
00:45:13,840 --> 00:45:16,440
him.
And I'm like, my name is Dave.

720
00:45:16,440 --> 00:45:19,720
I'm here from the from the ward.
And, and we just wanted to know

721
00:45:19,720 --> 00:45:21,160
if there's anything we could do
for you.

722
00:45:21,400 --> 00:45:24,400
You know, we miss you.
What, what can we, what can we

723
00:45:24,400 --> 00:45:26,880
do to help, you know, checking
on you.

724
00:45:27,440 --> 00:45:30,040
And it was the shortest
conversation ever.

725
00:45:30,040 --> 00:45:32,000
He's like absolutely nothing.
We're good.

726
00:45:32,000 --> 00:45:33,960
Thanks.
And then just shut the door.

727
00:45:34,600 --> 00:45:37,800
And I just remember I kind of
took two steps off the porch and

728
00:45:37,800 --> 00:45:40,760
I just looked up at the sky and
I'm like, are you happy, right.

729
00:45:40,760 --> 00:45:44,560
Like that was fruitful, right?
And then I went back in my car

730
00:45:44,800 --> 00:45:46,280
and I went home and I finished
the game.

731
00:45:47,360 --> 00:45:55,320
Then about two weeks later, I
get a phone call from sister

732
00:45:55,320 --> 00:45:59,520
CEO, this man's wife.
And I had given one of the kids

733
00:45:59,520 --> 00:46:02,360
my phone number and said, you
know, on one of the previous

734
00:46:02,360 --> 00:46:04,600
visits and said, hey, can you
have your mom or dad call me?

735
00:46:06,320 --> 00:46:07,800
And that's how she got my
number.

736
00:46:08,080 --> 00:46:13,520
And she called me and she is
just in tears, just in tears and

737
00:46:13,520 --> 00:46:19,520
broken hearted.
And she said, I didn't know who

738
00:46:19,520 --> 00:46:22,720
else to call.
But my husband has cleaned out

739
00:46:22,720 --> 00:46:26,560
our bank accounts.
He has taking every card that I

740
00:46:26,560 --> 00:46:31,160
have.
He took one of the cars and just

741
00:46:31,160 --> 00:46:34,200
left a note saying he'd met
another woman, had fallen in

742
00:46:34,200 --> 00:46:37,160
love and has to go pursue his
truth.

743
00:46:37,160 --> 00:46:40,440
Wherever it lies.
And I have nothing.

744
00:46:42,520 --> 00:46:51,360
And I, I just in that moment I
was so ashamed of myself for,

745
00:46:51,360 --> 00:46:54,880
for, pardon the expression,
pissing and moaning on my chair

746
00:46:54,880 --> 00:46:58,440
and not putting it on my big boy
pants and going sooner.

747
00:46:58,520 --> 00:47:01,000
Not that I think the outcome
would have been any different,

748
00:47:01,560 --> 00:47:04,240
but I felt ashamed in that
moment.

749
00:47:05,640 --> 00:47:08,320
And I remember the.
Bishop I I I.

750
00:47:08,320 --> 00:47:10,560
Called the Bishop that night and
I'm like, hey, we got to do

751
00:47:10,560 --> 00:47:13,000
something here.
And he's like, I'll pick you up

752
00:47:13,000 --> 00:47:15,360
in about 15 minutes.
We'll go down, we'll take a look

753
00:47:15,360 --> 00:47:18,240
and we'll get this solved.
And, and this Bishop was one of

754
00:47:18,240 --> 00:47:19,760
the most stellar men I'd ever
met.

755
00:47:20,360 --> 00:47:26,320
And so we jump in the car.
We, we go down there, the Bishop

756
00:47:26,320 --> 00:47:29,600
calls his financial clerk in and
he, they just immediately start

757
00:47:29,600 --> 00:47:32,320
going to work and they, they
really take care of this woman

758
00:47:32,840 --> 00:47:36,000
and her kids.
And so she starts coming back to

759
00:47:36,000 --> 00:47:41,400
church and about about two
months later, I'm standing in a

760
00:47:41,400 --> 00:47:43,960
font and I'm baptizing all of
her children.

761
00:47:45,520 --> 00:47:49,640
And it was a privilege of a
lifetime, but it wouldn't have

762
00:47:49,640 --> 00:47:52,840
happened, I don't think, had I
not done my job.

763
00:47:53,280 --> 00:47:55,600
It probably would have the Lord
would have found somebody else,

764
00:47:55,920 --> 00:47:57,440
right?
It, it still would have

765
00:47:57,440 --> 00:47:58,680
happened.
That's, that's an arrogant

766
00:47:58,680 --> 00:48:02,320
thought.
But he, there are so many, I

767
00:48:02,400 --> 00:48:07,120
believe opportunities we miss
because we're just not wanting

768
00:48:07,120 --> 00:48:13,160
to engage, right.
I'm, I'm, I, I'm a guy who when

769
00:48:13,160 --> 00:48:16,680
my wife met me, I had hair down
in the middle of my back.

770
00:48:16,680 --> 00:48:19,920
Both my ears were pierced.
I had a couple tattoos.

771
00:48:19,920 --> 00:48:22,560
I mean.
I grew up rough, right?

772
00:48:26,480 --> 00:48:31,840
But no one realized I was
searching for something, right?

773
00:48:31,840 --> 00:48:35,120
I had questions of an eternal
nature that needed to be

774
00:48:35,120 --> 00:48:38,560
answered.
And I don't blame anyone for not

775
00:48:38,560 --> 00:48:42,920
approaching me with those
things, because I'm not sure I

776
00:48:42,920 --> 00:48:44,560
would have been as receptive,
right?

777
00:48:44,560 --> 00:48:46,920
I did have one friend.
His name was Lee.

778
00:48:46,920 --> 00:48:50,120
He tried to tried to say, well,
if you're investigating

779
00:48:50,120 --> 00:48:51,840
religion, you got to investigate
mine, right?

780
00:48:51,840 --> 00:48:53,360
And I'm like, yeah, I'll stop
drinking coffee.

781
00:48:53,360 --> 00:48:58,400
That'll fix it.
And he, you know, so I probably

782
00:48:58,400 --> 00:49:02,040
wasn't real receptive either.
But we don't know where

783
00:49:02,040 --> 00:49:05,280
someone's at.
We don't know what they've gone

784
00:49:05,280 --> 00:49:06,880
through.
We don't know where they're at

785
00:49:06,880 --> 00:49:11,480
currently.
And I think we do them a

786
00:49:11,480 --> 00:49:13,200
disservice.
And quite frankly, I think we.

787
00:49:13,200 --> 00:49:16,960
Do got a disservice by not.
Trying to engage more with his

788
00:49:16,960 --> 00:49:19,360
children, even the ones we
disagree with.

789
00:49:20,360 --> 00:49:25,360
Yeah, well, thank you for that.
That's I think anybody who has

790
00:49:25,360 --> 00:49:28,960
put their shoulder to the wheel,
as it were, is going to have

791
00:49:28,960 --> 00:49:31,440
those kind of stories.
And you're exactly right.

792
00:49:32,160 --> 00:49:35,400
So you don't feel worthy, so you
don't feel capable.

793
00:49:36,360 --> 00:49:40,360
You say, well, I don't have the
the gift of gab like maybe other

794
00:49:40,360 --> 00:49:42,120
people do.
I can't just sit down and talk

795
00:49:42,120 --> 00:49:43,520
to people.
I'm kind of an introvert.

796
00:49:43,520 --> 00:49:48,920
I don't like people.
There's something you can do, I

797
00:49:48,920 --> 00:49:52,680
guarantee it.
And do people matter?

798
00:49:53,640 --> 00:49:57,800
And, and, you know, I think that
this, this story and you can

799
00:49:57,800 --> 00:50:01,440
answer this because I, we all,
we all know the answer.

800
00:50:02,800 --> 00:50:06,360
You know, before you had done
that work for this lady and her

801
00:50:06,360 --> 00:50:08,440
family.
They were just a person.

802
00:50:09,480 --> 00:50:11,640
But after it was a different
story.

803
00:50:12,640 --> 00:50:16,240
There was investment on your
part, major investment.

804
00:50:17,440 --> 00:50:21,120
And when you get the opportunity
to bless somebody in a way,

805
00:50:21,440 --> 00:50:25,280
whether you meant to or not or
the Lord put this into your life

806
00:50:25,720 --> 00:50:31,680
and you found yourself at the,
you know, the, the linchpin for

807
00:50:31,680 --> 00:50:34,560
this massive work to be done in
someone else's life.

808
00:50:35,120 --> 00:50:37,680
And you just got to be an
instrument in the hands of God

809
00:50:37,680 --> 00:50:40,680
to do it.
It wasn't like I understand what

810
00:50:40,680 --> 00:50:42,120
you're saying.
I've been in those situations.

811
00:50:42,120 --> 00:50:46,080
It wasn't me, it wasn't you, but
we were willing.

812
00:50:46,520 --> 00:50:49,760
And the Lord opened the door and
said, hey, here's somebody you

813
00:50:49,760 --> 00:50:52,280
can bless.
And I'll tell you, it breaks

814
00:50:52,280 --> 00:50:55,200
down a lot of things inside of
us.

815
00:50:55,200 --> 00:50:59,680
We begin to develop this
compassion and it's kind of like

816
00:50:59,680 --> 00:51:06,480
the old, there's an old kind of
nursery rhyme type thing where

817
00:51:07,280 --> 00:51:13,200
you know, if you're in a canoe,
start moving because you can't

818
00:51:13,200 --> 00:51:17,360
steer unless you're moving.
And even if you have to go the

819
00:51:17,360 --> 00:51:21,280
wrong way for a minute, do
something and then get yourself

820
00:51:21,280 --> 00:51:25,160
right and start, you know, not
everybody's going to get asked

821
00:51:25,160 --> 00:51:30,120
to do a calling like like you
did in your ward, but everyone

822
00:51:30,120 --> 00:51:34,960
can bless somebody.
There was times growing up where

823
00:51:35,400 --> 00:51:40,240
I remember one time and things
were not always rosy for us.

824
00:51:40,240 --> 00:51:43,800
We didn't have a lot of money.
And I remember one time when we

825
00:51:43,800 --> 00:51:46,560
were just right down to the bare
bones of our food.

826
00:51:47,160 --> 00:51:52,520
And one of the neighbors went
and got, I guess they gathered

827
00:51:52,520 --> 00:51:55,080
up some people.
But we went out one morning to

828
00:51:55,080 --> 00:51:59,680
go get in our van and it was
loaded full of groceries from

829
00:51:59,680 --> 00:52:02,320
that night.
And that was just people

830
00:52:02,320 --> 00:52:04,440
blessing us.
And how did they know?

831
00:52:04,960 --> 00:52:06,760
How did they know what we were
struggling with?

832
00:52:06,760 --> 00:52:09,360
I don't know.
I was just a little kid going,

833
00:52:09,400 --> 00:52:10,920
what's all these groceries
doing?

834
00:52:10,920 --> 00:52:15,200
And of course, my mother's
emotional and about it because

835
00:52:15,280 --> 00:52:21,040
we really needed help.
And I mean this, this story that

836
00:52:21,040 --> 00:52:24,360
you tell and we and we could go
on and on telling stories like

837
00:52:24,360 --> 00:52:28,320
this because this is the
foundation of this whole entire

838
00:52:30,080 --> 00:52:33,680
this whole entire subject is
what can you do to bless

839
00:52:33,680 --> 00:52:37,440
somebody else's life?
Not everybody needs food or not

840
00:52:37,440 --> 00:52:39,040
everyone needs the same kind of
help.

841
00:52:39,960 --> 00:52:45,400
You know, I've met people who in
my ministry, I'll call it, just

842
00:52:45,400 --> 00:52:48,280
trying to go out and serve and
preach the gospel in the best

843
00:52:48,280 --> 00:52:52,040
way possible.
I've met people who were just

844
00:52:52,400 --> 00:52:57,320
broken emotionally and they had
a rough go of it.

845
00:52:57,360 --> 00:52:59,880
They had a rough life.
And people have not been nice

846
00:52:59,880 --> 00:53:04,120
because maybe, maybe they were
different than other folks or

847
00:53:04,120 --> 00:53:07,120
they looked different or they
act different or whatever it

848
00:53:07,120 --> 00:53:11,200
was.
And for them to come back

849
00:53:11,640 --> 00:53:16,440
sometimes years later and say,
you know, you made a difference

850
00:53:16,600 --> 00:53:18,960
in my life.
And I go, what did I do?

851
00:53:20,240 --> 00:53:23,800
She she treated me like a person
when no one else would.

852
00:53:24,880 --> 00:53:26,600
And I went, well, was that hard
to do?

853
00:53:27,800 --> 00:53:31,920
Was it hard for me to to say,
you know, feed somebody because

854
00:53:31,920 --> 00:53:35,960
they were hungry or, you know,
take someone and go do something

855
00:53:35,960 --> 00:53:38,680
fun with them or just just be
available?

856
00:53:39,240 --> 00:53:42,160
I mean, in today's world with
our phones and the messaging and

857
00:53:42,440 --> 00:53:46,280
all this stuff, you know, you
can message somebody at any

858
00:53:46,280 --> 00:53:49,120
time.
Hey, how you doing?

859
00:53:49,960 --> 00:53:52,280
Been praying about you.
Here's a scripture.

860
00:53:52,280 --> 00:53:57,320
Maybe this will help your day.
Who who cannot do that?

861
00:53:58,960 --> 00:54:02,560
You know, do you know anybody in
your life that you think could

862
00:54:02,560 --> 00:54:06,400
use a little uplifting man, go
to and do it.

863
00:54:06,400 --> 00:54:10,600
Start doing this work and watch
the doors fly open in front of

864
00:54:10,600 --> 00:54:14,240
you.
And you will find yourself in

865
00:54:14,840 --> 00:54:19,720
sometimes complicated situations
for sure, you know, but you'll

866
00:54:19,720 --> 00:54:22,400
get some really, really good
experience.

867
00:54:23,120 --> 00:54:26,120
And you know, you want to have
value for people.

868
00:54:26,720 --> 00:54:31,400
Listen to their story.
Really listen and say, you know

869
00:54:31,400 --> 00:54:36,800
what, there's something here
because the Heavenly Father

870
00:54:36,800 --> 00:54:39,560
knows each one of his children.
He has tremendous amount of

871
00:54:39,560 --> 00:54:41,920
compassion.
He knows them better than we do

872
00:54:41,920 --> 00:54:45,520
for sure.
But if you're finding yourself

873
00:54:45,520 --> 00:54:46,800
going, man, I don't know what to
do.

874
00:54:46,800 --> 00:54:48,400
Everything seems so taken care
of.

875
00:54:48,840 --> 00:54:52,600
You just open your eyes, look to
your neighbors, look to the

876
00:54:52,600 --> 00:54:55,760
people around you in your ward
or in your church or group or

877
00:54:55,760 --> 00:54:59,480
whatever you want to call them.
You know, if you stand up, if

878
00:54:59,480 --> 00:55:02,520
you ever have an opportunity to
talk in church, look out over

879
00:55:02,520 --> 00:55:05,800
the audience.
Look into people's eyes.

880
00:55:06,240 --> 00:55:09,120
What do you see?
You see people who are hungry,

881
00:55:09,480 --> 00:55:12,400
maybe hungry for affection or
need some.

882
00:55:13,040 --> 00:55:16,920
You know, it's not always money
and food and things that we can

883
00:55:16,920 --> 00:55:19,240
bless people with.
Sometimes it's friendship.

884
00:55:20,600 --> 00:55:23,320
Go to your wife.
Hey, dear, I went to church and

885
00:55:23,320 --> 00:55:27,000
I saw Sister so and so.
I know her husband passed away a

886
00:55:27,000 --> 00:55:29,280
couple months ago.
Should we invite her over for

887
00:55:29,280 --> 00:55:31,080
Sunday dinner?
Get to know her.

888
00:55:31,960 --> 00:55:35,280
Sure, it's a little awkward if
you're an introvert, it's super

889
00:55:35,280 --> 00:55:38,320
awkward to invite somebody in
and have this.

890
00:55:38,560 --> 00:55:43,040
But you might just gain a friend
out of it, and you might save

891
00:55:43,040 --> 00:55:52,920
somebody's life. 100 percent,
100%, you know, we, you know,

892
00:55:52,960 --> 00:55:56,000
and, and speaking nationally
now, right?

893
00:55:56,000 --> 00:55:59,800
And, and whenever you're ready
to move on to, to the other, we

894
00:55:59,800 --> 00:56:02,360
can here.
But speaking nationally right

895
00:56:02,360 --> 00:56:09,200
now, I think we have to
recognize that certainly the

896
00:56:09,200 --> 00:56:11,520
generation younger than us,
right?

897
00:56:12,880 --> 00:56:15,840
They grew up in a much different
world than you and I would have

898
00:56:15,840 --> 00:56:20,360
grown up in, right?
I remember as a kid, if I had a

899
00:56:20,360 --> 00:56:23,880
bad day at school, well, it was
over at 3:30 when I went home,

900
00:56:24,560 --> 00:56:26,080
right?
And tomorrow's a new day.

901
00:56:27,680 --> 00:56:30,800
Now those kids pack that with
them wherever they go in their

902
00:56:30,800 --> 00:56:35,160
pocket with their phone, right?
And I do believe that we are

903
00:56:35,160 --> 00:56:37,680
dealing with a damaged
generation now.

904
00:56:38,680 --> 00:56:41,960
And the, I think one of the big
questions is, is how are we

905
00:56:41,960 --> 00:56:44,080
going to respond as followers of
Christ?

906
00:56:44,840 --> 00:56:49,560
Are we going to continue to
punish them for that brokenness?

907
00:56:49,560 --> 00:56:53,280
Or are we going to reach out and
brotherly affection and try to

908
00:56:53,440 --> 00:56:56,600
try to befriend them and then
say there's a better way?

909
00:56:57,360 --> 00:56:59,880
Right.
I'm not saying it's a panacea,

910
00:56:59,880 --> 00:57:04,160
that it'll cure everything, but
it sure is a great start.

911
00:57:05,040 --> 00:57:12,800
Yeah, right.
And I've got this quote that it

912
00:57:12,800 --> 00:57:15,240
might be good.
I mean, 'cause I know, I know

913
00:57:15,240 --> 00:57:17,720
me, I could talk for hours and
hours, but not everybody can.

914
00:57:17,800 --> 00:57:21,400
Oh, you're good.
There's a quote from John Taylor

915
00:57:22,040 --> 00:57:27,040
and I just want to read part of
it because it it kind of ties

916
00:57:27,040 --> 00:57:29,640
into what we've been talking
about and then goes on to the

917
00:57:29,640 --> 00:57:34,400
next subject.
It's on page 258 of the Gospel

918
00:57:34,400 --> 00:57:38,480
Kingdom.
It's called the ideal of united

919
00:57:38,480 --> 00:57:41,160
brotherhood.
And he says, I cannot conceive

920
00:57:41,160 --> 00:57:44,280
of anything more beautiful and
heavenly than a united

921
00:57:44,280 --> 00:57:47,400
brotherhood organized after the
pattern lay down in the Doctrine

922
00:57:47,400 --> 00:57:50,680
Covenants.
When all act for the benefit of

923
00:57:50,680 --> 00:57:54,440
all.
When while we love God with all

924
00:57:54,440 --> 00:57:56,840
our hearts, we love our neighbor
as ourselves.

925
00:57:57,400 --> 00:58:00,960
Where our time, our property,
our talents, our mental and

926
00:58:00,960 --> 00:58:03,720
bodily powers, are all exerted
for the good of all.

927
00:58:04,520 --> 00:58:07,320
Where no man grabs or takes
advantage of another.

928
00:58:07,680 --> 00:58:11,160
Where there's a common interest,
a common purse, a common stock.

929
00:58:11,600 --> 00:58:14,920
Where, as they did on this
continent, it is said of them

930
00:58:14,920 --> 00:58:18,520
that they all dealt justly to
each other, and all acted for

931
00:58:18,520 --> 00:58:22,240
the general wealth.
When every man in every place

932
00:58:22,240 --> 00:58:23,680
could meet a brother and a
friend.

933
00:58:24,280 --> 00:58:26,720
When all the generous and
benevolent influences and

934
00:58:26,720 --> 00:58:30,320
sympathies of our nature are
carried out, and covetousness,

935
00:58:30,320 --> 00:58:34,360
arrogance, hatred, and pride,
and every evil are subdued and

936
00:58:34,360 --> 00:58:37,120
brought into subjection to the
will and Spirit of God.

937
00:58:37,920 --> 00:58:40,840
These principles are very
beautiful, and would be very

938
00:58:40,840 --> 00:58:46,840
happy finding for a community, a
territory, a state, nation, or

939
00:58:46,840 --> 00:58:52,720
the world.
Wow, and John Taylor has a way

940
00:58:52,720 --> 00:58:54,880
with words.
She sure does.

941
00:58:56,040 --> 00:58:58,400
His English Heritage sure does.
Oh yeah.

942
00:58:58,640 --> 00:59:00,640
I'm screaming through in in
those things.

943
00:59:01,880 --> 00:59:05,040
You know, and there's so this
ties in, Yeah, for the world,

944
00:59:05,040 --> 00:59:09,040
there's these principles,
everyone we meet, we should

945
00:59:09,040 --> 00:59:13,800
behave as brethren too.
But in the church and in the

946
00:59:13,800 --> 00:59:17,840
Restoration, the, it's been
fractured and splintered.

947
00:59:17,840 --> 00:59:22,200
And there's all these kind of
people who believe similarly and

948
00:59:22,200 --> 00:59:25,520
differently.
And some of the most hated

949
00:59:26,480 --> 00:59:29,480
people are not the ones that are
so far away, but they're the

950
00:59:29,480 --> 00:59:33,280
ones that were, you know,
involved in a split just 20

951
00:59:33,280 --> 00:59:38,520
years ago, you know, or, or the
traditions have been passed down

952
00:59:38,600 --> 00:59:40,600
by.
You'll say you're in, in the,

953
00:59:40,600 --> 00:59:43,320
you know, they call them the
Brighamite churches and the, and

954
00:59:43,320 --> 00:59:45,680
the Prairie churches.
It's like all those guys,

955
00:59:45,680 --> 00:59:47,960
they're way off, you know,
whoever they're going for.

956
00:59:48,680 --> 00:59:53,640
But you know, I've met some
people in the Prairie churches

957
00:59:54,360 --> 00:59:57,160
that are just some good souls.
I don't agree with their

958
00:59:57,160 --> 01:00:02,960
doctrine on everything, but
there's some really, really good

959
01:00:02,960 --> 01:00:05,880
people.
And I think I have some

960
01:00:05,880 --> 01:00:10,000
responsibility to befriend them
and help understand their

961
01:00:10,000 --> 01:00:12,160
position.
And maybe we don't have a lot of

962
01:00:12,160 --> 01:00:14,520
doctrinal discussions because we
know we disagree.

963
01:00:14,680 --> 01:00:17,840
That's OK.
What common ground do we have?

964
01:00:18,760 --> 01:00:20,920
And can I be a force for good in
their life?

965
01:00:21,520 --> 01:00:23,880
Maybe.
But I love having the

966
01:00:23,880 --> 01:00:29,240
conversations anyway, You know,
and for us as fundamentalists,

967
01:00:29,520 --> 01:00:33,880
when you start talking about the
church, the church has gone

968
01:00:33,880 --> 01:00:35,760
astray.
We feel that way.

969
01:00:35,840 --> 01:00:39,120
We feel that the leadership is
is gone down the road, that we

970
01:00:39,120 --> 01:00:40,800
are not interested in following
or else.

971
01:00:40,800 --> 01:00:46,000
But that's where we would be.
But my neighbors here that are

972
01:00:46,000 --> 01:00:50,640
in the local ward, there's some
good people, really good people.

973
01:00:51,640 --> 01:00:56,760
And do I care about them?
Do I care about them in a way

974
01:00:56,760 --> 01:01:00,800
that I would be willing to bless
them in the way they need to be

975
01:01:00,800 --> 01:01:03,080
blessed, not in the way that I
just want to bless them.

976
01:01:04,520 --> 01:01:06,800
Because if they get interested
in the fullness of the gospel,

977
01:01:06,800 --> 01:01:08,600
that's great, we'll talk about
it.

978
01:01:09,160 --> 01:01:11,160
What if they're not?
Where?

979
01:01:11,160 --> 01:01:12,680
How does the agency play into
this?

980
01:01:12,680 --> 01:01:15,600
How does how do we bless people
in the way they need to be

981
01:01:15,600 --> 01:01:20,120
blessed?
100% yeah.

982
01:01:20,120 --> 01:01:22,640
I think that is such an
important point, right?

983
01:01:23,000 --> 01:01:26,200
Bless them in the way that they
need blessed, right?

984
01:01:28,520 --> 01:01:31,400
If there's one thing I don't
like, it's it's a numbers game

985
01:01:31,400 --> 01:01:33,640
when you start talking about
conversion, right?

986
01:01:34,080 --> 01:01:38,080
I I just detest that.
And I think one of the reasons

987
01:01:38,080 --> 01:01:44,360
is, is because God is very clear
that, you know, All Souls are

988
01:01:44,360 --> 01:01:51,480
precious to me, all of them.
He makes it clear He didn't send

989
01:01:51,480 --> 01:01:58,360
Christ to die just for those who
were already living a great

990
01:01:58,360 --> 01:02:04,800
life, right?
He went for everybody.

991
01:02:05,240 --> 01:02:07,640
And I think Paul is a great
example of this, right?

992
01:02:08,120 --> 01:02:11,400
Look, Paul's a guy who's out
there persecuting Christians,

993
01:02:11,600 --> 01:02:15,240
ordering the deaths of some
Christians, right?

994
01:02:18,760 --> 01:02:20,440
This is why the savior's a
savior.

995
01:02:20,440 --> 01:02:23,840
And I'm not because I'd have
been like, yeah, he's about to

996
01:02:23,840 --> 01:02:27,920
have an accident, right?
But but what does, what does the

997
01:02:27,920 --> 01:02:30,240
Lord do?
He sees with different eyes,

998
01:02:30,240 --> 01:02:34,480
Dave, He, he looks right.
And and the fractionalism that

999
01:02:34,560 --> 01:02:38,200
that exists within Mormonism, it
runs deep, right?

1000
01:02:38,200 --> 01:02:41,960
I didn't realize how deep it ran
until I started really probing,

1001
01:02:41,960 --> 01:02:44,200
right?
And I'm like, there's some

1002
01:02:44,200 --> 01:02:48,400
leftover stuff in here, right?
Like it's, you know, it's

1003
01:02:48,400 --> 01:02:52,040
poignant and it's, it's tough.
And, and I'm not, I'm not

1004
01:02:52,040 --> 01:02:54,560
cheapening that in any way.
I understand that they're,

1005
01:02:54,880 --> 01:02:57,160
they're matters of conscience
and principle.

1006
01:02:58,560 --> 01:03:01,400
But that doesn't mean we have to
hate each other either, though,

1007
01:03:01,800 --> 01:03:04,240
right?
Especially within Mormonism,

1008
01:03:04,640 --> 01:03:09,000
where if you're from a
Brighamite tradition, right, you

1009
01:03:09,000 --> 01:03:13,040
and I don't go to the same, to
the same place for, for, for

1010
01:03:13,040 --> 01:03:16,440
church, right?
But that doesn't mean we have to

1011
01:03:16,440 --> 01:03:20,880
hate each other, right?
We share about 95% in my

1012
01:03:20,880 --> 01:03:24,080
estimation, the same beliefs.
Right.

1013
01:03:26,280 --> 01:03:27,960
That that should count for
something.

1014
01:03:28,640 --> 01:03:31,400
Right.
And let's not let our

1015
01:03:31,400 --> 01:03:36,200
differences define us.
They exist, but you know, they

1016
01:03:36,200 --> 01:03:39,800
exist with the person that sits
in the row front of me at my

1017
01:03:39,800 --> 01:03:42,240
church.
Some differences exist.

1018
01:03:42,640 --> 01:03:46,040
We just, they happen to not be
ones that we can't tolerate.

1019
01:03:46,240 --> 01:03:51,280
So, you know, I mean, but I'll
tell you what, you and I both

1020
01:03:51,280 --> 01:03:54,240
feel this way.
If either one of us comes to the

1021
01:03:54,560 --> 01:03:56,800
meetings that either one of us,
we're just happy to see you,

1022
01:03:57,920 --> 01:03:59,480
it's great.
No problem.

1023
01:04:00,520 --> 01:04:04,560
You know, we may be asked to
serve people.

1024
01:04:04,840 --> 01:04:08,160
You know, you were mentioning
Paul, and I just looked up

1025
01:04:08,160 --> 01:04:11,640
because I couldn't remember
exactly the name, but how would

1026
01:04:11,640 --> 01:04:18,720
you like to be Ananias?
You know, this guy's going to

1027
01:04:18,720 --> 01:04:22,320
come and he's like, whoa, wait a
minute, I know this guy.

1028
01:04:23,440 --> 01:04:26,720
Why why are you blessing him?
Why is he coming here?

1029
01:04:27,400 --> 01:04:30,600
And I'll bet you Ananias felt
very, very different about Saul

1030
01:04:30,760 --> 01:04:37,800
or Paul after that because he
served him, you know, and with,

1031
01:04:37,920 --> 01:04:40,360
with all my friends in, in the
different groups in the

1032
01:04:40,360 --> 01:04:43,600
different areas, you know, the
ones that I've listened to and

1033
01:04:43,600 --> 01:04:46,440
the ones that I've had
interactions with, I can

1034
01:04:46,440 --> 01:04:48,280
understand why they're where
they are.

1035
01:04:49,280 --> 01:04:53,240
And that's OK to me.
I could say, well, you're not

1036
01:04:53,240 --> 01:04:56,280
holding to the truth and you're
but what, what you're going to

1037
01:04:56,280 --> 01:04:58,040
go to hell?
Really.

1038
01:04:58,840 --> 01:05:03,200
Are you so sure that everything
you believe is so right?

1039
01:05:03,440 --> 01:05:07,120
And yet we're moving forward.
We're asking the Lord for light,

1040
01:05:07,120 --> 01:05:08,600
and we're trying to come
together.

1041
01:05:09,760 --> 01:05:12,840
And there's something to that.
And I'll tell you, we would get

1042
01:05:12,840 --> 01:05:16,000
a lot farther if we would serve
one another.

1043
01:05:17,680 --> 01:05:22,600
You know, how was it in the days
of Jesus when after he died and

1044
01:05:22,600 --> 01:05:28,040
goes over to the Nephites?
We don't know the status of

1045
01:05:28,040 --> 01:05:29,720
their people.
We don't know if there was

1046
01:05:29,720 --> 01:05:32,640
fractures or splinters.
We know a lot of people died and

1047
01:05:32,640 --> 01:05:37,640
there was this great cataclysm
and the people that he came to

1048
01:05:37,640 --> 01:05:41,560
went and gathered at the temple
and and he came and united them

1049
01:05:41,560 --> 01:05:45,360
and blessed them and and set
them on this path and they

1050
01:05:45,360 --> 01:05:49,240
became one people.
You know, what would that be

1051
01:05:49,240 --> 01:05:51,960
like in our day?
I think there would have to be

1052
01:05:51,960 --> 01:05:54,120
some distractions.
There have to be some things to

1053
01:05:54,120 --> 01:05:59,960
prepare us, but there's, there's
a lot of good that we can do

1054
01:05:59,960 --> 01:06:02,680
together rather than separate
and apart.

1055
01:06:02,680 --> 01:06:04,960
And yet I understand those
things need to be there.

1056
01:06:05,360 --> 01:06:09,520
I'm not, I'm not advocating for
a complete breakdown of all the

1057
01:06:09,960 --> 01:06:13,120
social structures and
everything, but that doesn't

1058
01:06:13,120 --> 01:06:14,960
mean we have to treat people
poorly.

1059
01:06:16,600 --> 01:06:19,360
And you know, so a lot of people
do really good.

1060
01:06:19,360 --> 01:06:21,520
I will say a lot of people do
really good.

1061
01:06:22,560 --> 01:06:25,720
But if you if you put yourself
in a place where you can be a

1062
01:06:25,720 --> 01:06:28,720
genuine help again, it comes
back.

1063
01:06:29,080 --> 01:06:31,120
You've got to have a
relationship with your Father in

1064
01:06:31,120 --> 01:06:34,400
heaven and bless people the way
they need to be blessed.

1065
01:06:34,400 --> 01:06:40,240
Like we said, that's an old
story and I it may be

1066
01:06:40,240 --> 01:06:43,280
apocryphal.
I just remember hearing it, but

1067
01:06:43,280 --> 01:06:48,040
it's about Gandhi.
You know, the, the guy over in

1068
01:06:48,040 --> 01:06:51,800
India that the pacifist and
nonviolent.

1069
01:06:52,920 --> 01:06:54,000
Oh, what's the word?
You know it.

1070
01:06:54,800 --> 01:06:57,560
Nonviolent resistance.
Nonviolent resistance.

1071
01:06:58,120 --> 01:07:05,280
But one of the Hindus came to
him and said, I know that you're

1072
01:07:05,280 --> 01:07:08,200
all for non violence and
everything, but the Muslims

1073
01:07:08,200 --> 01:07:11,680
killed my son in this war that
was happening.

1074
01:07:11,880 --> 01:07:15,520
Muslims killed my son.
What am I supposed to do?

1075
01:07:17,160 --> 01:07:20,080
And I thought his response,
according to the story, was so

1076
01:07:20,080 --> 01:07:25,240
interesting.
He says go and find a little

1077
01:07:25,240 --> 01:07:30,560
Muslim boy whose parents have
died and raise him as a Muslim.

1078
01:07:34,360 --> 01:07:37,920
And I thought, there's
something, there's something to

1079
01:07:37,920 --> 01:07:41,080
that.
Would we be able to do that, you

1080
01:07:41,080 --> 01:07:44,200
know?
I, I hope so, I hope so.

1081
01:07:45,200 --> 01:07:47,920
I, I, I hope I could be that
man, right?

1082
01:07:47,920 --> 01:07:50,320
I can't say for sure.
I won't ever pretend to say I

1083
01:07:50,320 --> 01:07:53,240
could or couldn't because I'm
not in that position and

1084
01:07:53,240 --> 01:07:57,920
thankfully so be hard, but it
would be hard.

1085
01:07:58,640 --> 01:08:01,960
You know, I, my mind draws draws
to two things, right?

1086
01:08:02,680 --> 01:08:06,960
With a story like that one was
years back.

1087
01:08:06,960 --> 01:08:09,000
I I want to say it's been over a
decade now.

1088
01:08:09,000 --> 01:08:14,040
I might be wrong.
As I get older, time seems to

1089
01:08:14,040 --> 01:08:17,120
get more and more mushed and
scrambled.

1090
01:08:17,120 --> 01:08:21,720
But there was an Amish community
where a man came in and just

1091
01:08:22,240 --> 01:08:26,840
shot a bunch of young Amish
children and a bunch of Amish

1092
01:08:26,840 --> 01:08:36,120
adults and they ended up looking
after his wife.

1093
01:08:37,439 --> 01:08:40,720
The man who shot those people,
they looked after his wife.

1094
01:08:42,080 --> 01:08:47,880
And one of the parts of the
story that I find so moving is

1095
01:08:47,880 --> 01:08:51,640
that one of the men that were in
the the the group that went over

1096
01:08:51,640 --> 01:08:55,560
to his wife to first make
contact, the perpetrator's wife,

1097
01:08:56,720 --> 01:08:58,880
his child was one of the
children that were killed.

1098
01:09:01,040 --> 01:09:04,439
And I thought, I got a long ways
to go.

1099
01:09:05,800 --> 01:09:13,600
I've got a long ways to go.
And what what some members of

1100
01:09:13,600 --> 01:09:17,840
the LDS Church did in the face
of what happened in Michigan is

1101
01:09:17,960 --> 01:09:21,680
absolutely inspiring.
Look, I've had my differences

1102
01:09:21,680 --> 01:09:23,960
with the church and I've been
vocal about them when I felt

1103
01:09:23,960 --> 01:09:29,399
like it was necessary.
But there's something good

1104
01:09:29,399 --> 01:09:33,279
there, right?
Something was good there and

1105
01:09:33,279 --> 01:09:41,359
something good came out of that.
And I think, I think we have to

1106
01:09:41,800 --> 01:09:43,840
start working towards being
those people.

1107
01:09:43,840 --> 01:09:45,359
I'm not sure I'd ever get to
that place.

1108
01:09:45,359 --> 01:09:48,279
I hope so, right?
I'm working real hard at it.

1109
01:09:48,760 --> 01:09:53,680
But that's a different level of
discipleship than what I think

1110
01:09:53,680 --> 01:09:57,400
many of us ever encounter.
And so here's my question, Dave,

1111
01:09:57,920 --> 01:10:06,490
how do we get there?
I'll think about that because

1112
01:10:06,490 --> 01:10:09,530
it's it, there is a complicated
answer and there's a simple

1113
01:10:09,530 --> 01:10:11,890
answer.
And for people who don't know

1114
01:10:11,890 --> 01:10:16,610
what happened with the, with the
church in, in Michigan, what,

1115
01:10:16,690 --> 01:10:20,210
what you're referencing is they,
they were raising money for the

1116
01:10:20,370 --> 01:10:24,440
shooter's family, right?
And didn't they raise like the,

1117
01:10:24,440 --> 01:10:27,080
the goal was half $1,000,000,
but they raised quite a bit of

1118
01:10:27,080 --> 01:10:30,400
money to give to them because at
the end of the day, they're just

1119
01:10:30,400 --> 01:10:36,240
victims of a different sort.
But I really think that the path

1120
01:10:36,240 --> 01:10:43,920
to that kind of discipleship,
it, it has to be the recognition

1121
01:10:44,480 --> 01:10:46,920
that we're all just one big
family here.

1122
01:10:48,200 --> 01:10:51,440
And, you know, we live in a
place in the time where it seems

1123
01:10:51,440 --> 01:10:56,080
that mental health struggles
are, are going crazy and people

1124
01:10:56,080 --> 01:11:00,520
do things that they wouldn't do
had they had their full

1125
01:11:00,520 --> 01:11:03,920
faculties.
And we have to be able to

1126
01:11:04,160 --> 01:11:08,000
understand that and put that
into our, into our, you know,

1127
01:11:08,000 --> 01:11:11,520
our sheet of, of variables
because you have to say, well,

1128
01:11:12,160 --> 01:11:15,840
who was it really?
You know, anybody who's had a, a

1129
01:11:15,840 --> 01:11:20,360
friend or a family member who
perhaps passed away because of

1130
01:11:20,360 --> 01:11:24,520
suicide, because of their mental
health, you know, you feel very

1131
01:11:24,520 --> 01:11:28,920
hesitant to say, you know, they
deserved it.

1132
01:11:29,640 --> 01:11:32,120
I mean, and anybody who says
that it's just almost

1133
01:11:32,120 --> 01:11:36,280
distasteful and uncomfortable.
You don't know the struggle.

1134
01:11:36,280 --> 01:11:38,160
You don't know the struggle
other people are having.

1135
01:11:39,600 --> 01:11:42,800
And, you know, we talk about
this, this brotherly kindness

1136
01:11:42,800 --> 01:11:48,480
towards each other and this true
caring in a real way, this

1137
01:11:48,480 --> 01:11:53,000
service with purpose.
This is what it looks like in

1138
01:11:53,000 --> 01:11:56,480
action.
And this was kind of publicized.

1139
01:11:57,280 --> 01:12:00,960
And so we know about it.
But you know, what about what

1140
01:12:00,960 --> 01:12:02,760
about the ones that aren't so
publicized?

1141
01:12:03,600 --> 01:12:05,280
And we've talked a little bit
about them.

1142
01:12:06,040 --> 01:12:11,080
Little acts of kindness every
day that help change people's

1143
01:12:11,080 --> 01:12:14,640
lives for the better.
We're asked to minister and a

1144
01:12:14,640 --> 01:12:19,880
fellowship with those in our in
our societies in a very real way

1145
01:12:20,000 --> 01:12:21,800
that may look different for
different people.

1146
01:12:22,720 --> 01:12:26,920
You know, it might be that guys
like you and I who know how to

1147
01:12:26,920 --> 01:12:30,400
cook a good steak, invite
somebody over who doesn't and

1148
01:12:30,400 --> 01:12:34,720
teach them all about the gospel
because we're having a good meal

1149
01:12:34,720 --> 01:12:37,320
together, you know, and we're
doing good for them.

1150
01:12:38,280 --> 01:12:41,640
Sometimes it's like you say,
it's calling someone up and

1151
01:12:41,640 --> 01:12:45,720
remembering that it's not just
the Bishop's job, it's not just

1152
01:12:45,720 --> 01:12:49,360
the elders quorum president's
job to check up on the people.

1153
01:12:50,000 --> 01:12:54,680
If you feel something, go do it.
Go bless somebody's life.

1154
01:12:55,600 --> 01:12:59,600
And because those people in
leadership positions, it's a

1155
01:12:59,600 --> 01:13:05,160
different kind of feeling it you
if you take upon yourself.

1156
01:13:05,200 --> 01:13:08,440
And this is for all the for all
the men out there who have

1157
01:13:08,600 --> 01:13:11,600
responsibilities and the women,
there's a Relief Society

1158
01:13:11,600 --> 01:13:13,720
presidents, there's all these
callings in the different

1159
01:13:13,720 --> 01:13:17,720
churches and they're asked to
minister and serve the people.

1160
01:13:18,720 --> 01:13:23,680
When you take upon yourself the
spirit of that calling, you're

1161
01:13:23,680 --> 01:13:27,720
going to get yourself in some
interesting situations.

1162
01:13:28,160 --> 01:13:30,360
But you have opportunity to
bless people.

1163
01:13:31,800 --> 01:13:34,600
You know what a good friend of
mine told me one time?

1164
01:13:34,880 --> 01:13:38,600
Well, it's no more than a good
friend, but you know, he says

1165
01:13:38,600 --> 01:13:41,520
when you when you get called
into these positions or you're

1166
01:13:41,520 --> 01:13:44,880
put in a place to really help
someone, sometimes helping

1167
01:13:44,880 --> 01:13:47,760
someone looks a lot more like
climbing down in the mud with

1168
01:13:47,760 --> 01:13:55,240
them to get them out.
And it's, it's not fun, but you

1169
01:13:55,240 --> 01:13:59,280
can be supreme in your assurance
that you're doing the thing God

1170
01:13:59,280 --> 01:14:01,320
wants you to do and he'll
protect you.

1171
01:14:02,240 --> 01:14:08,720
How many of us would hesitate
for a moment to go into

1172
01:14:08,720 --> 01:14:12,800
someone's house and give them a
blessing for the sick?

1173
01:14:15,120 --> 01:14:17,520
You know, even if they had a
disease that we really didn't

1174
01:14:17,520 --> 01:14:20,960
really want to get, you know, if
you're really up to the spirit

1175
01:14:20,960 --> 01:14:25,400
of your calling, would you say,
not going to go do it because I

1176
01:14:25,400 --> 01:14:29,040
might get this sickness?
Or you say, God has asked me to

1177
01:14:29,040 --> 01:14:31,280
do this, I'm going to go do my
best.

1178
01:14:31,360 --> 01:14:34,000
And if I die, I die in the line
of my duty.

1179
01:14:35,680 --> 01:14:39,520
That should be what we're what
we're about because the

1180
01:14:39,520 --> 01:14:43,080
priesthood and the church
organization and all these helps

1181
01:14:43,080 --> 01:14:46,040
and things the Lord has given us
is for the blessing of the

1182
01:14:46,040 --> 01:14:49,480
Saints.
You know, you have Joseph and

1183
01:14:49,480 --> 01:14:53,160
Joseph Smith and all of the men
in Nauvoo with when the malaria

1184
01:14:53,160 --> 01:14:57,920
was going around, spending all
of their time and effort just

1185
01:14:58,000 --> 01:15:01,560
blessing people to try to help
them get better.

1186
01:15:02,720 --> 01:15:07,040
Now what?
What glory is there in that, You

1187
01:15:07,040 --> 01:15:09,280
know, that's just real
discipleship.

1188
01:15:09,280 --> 01:15:13,560
That's real brotherhood.
And do you know of somebody

1189
01:15:13,560 --> 01:15:15,920
who's struggling, say then we
all do.

1190
01:15:16,880 --> 01:15:21,160
Sometimes we don't know how to
help people and sometimes all we

1191
01:15:21,160 --> 01:15:25,160
can do is pray for them and
that's that's legitimate.

1192
01:15:25,400 --> 01:15:32,040
But as in our prayers, I would
wager and say if you ask the

1193
01:15:32,040 --> 01:15:35,560
Lord not just OK, bless them so
that I get this off my

1194
01:15:35,560 --> 01:15:39,000
conscience.
What could I do to help to

1195
01:15:39,000 --> 01:15:46,400
genuinely help the opportunity
will open up and like that

1196
01:15:46,400 --> 01:15:48,720
story.
I can't remember the man's name,

1197
01:15:48,720 --> 01:15:50,960
but I've heard it so many times
growing up.

1198
01:15:53,640 --> 01:15:56,920
Oh, brother Tanner, I'm sure
it's a popular story in the in

1199
01:15:56,920 --> 01:16:00,920
the church.
But he he had gathered up all

1200
01:16:00,920 --> 01:16:02,960
their food supplies.
They were starving.

1201
01:16:02,960 --> 01:16:07,800
They were in the cabin in the
1800s and they didn't have a lot

1202
01:16:07,800 --> 01:16:12,480
of food left.
And my brother Tanner says we

1203
01:16:12,480 --> 01:16:15,720
need to set this food aside.
Someone's coming and they're

1204
01:16:15,720 --> 01:16:17,760
going to need it.
Set aside some of it.

1205
01:16:18,280 --> 01:16:20,280
And I might get the story a
little wrong, but this is the

1206
01:16:20,320 --> 01:16:22,200
gist of it.
And a man came to the door,

1207
01:16:23,200 --> 01:16:26,120
knocked on the door and he
opened it and he said, do you

1208
01:16:26,120 --> 01:16:28,640
have any food?
He says, Yep, we have this food,

1209
01:16:29,280 --> 01:16:31,280
take their meager supplies and
give it to them.

1210
01:16:31,280 --> 01:16:35,640
And, and if I remember right,
the man said, an Angel told me

1211
01:16:35,640 --> 01:16:38,040
to come and find you and you
would be able to bless my

1212
01:16:38,040 --> 01:16:41,000
family.
And he walked away.

1213
01:16:41,600 --> 01:16:45,000
And Brother Tanner, I think he
wrote in his journal, I'm just

1214
01:16:45,000 --> 01:16:52,120
grateful that the Lord knows
Brother Tanner, you know, I

1215
01:16:52,120 --> 01:16:55,360
mean, and yeah, we, we may not
be there, we may not be able to

1216
01:16:55,360 --> 01:16:57,920
be inspired to that level, but
we can get there.

1217
01:16:58,960 --> 01:17:03,840
Start doing what you can and you
will find yourself in a position

1218
01:17:03,840 --> 01:17:06,200
to bless people over and over
and over.

1219
01:17:06,600 --> 01:17:11,640
And you take yourself out of it.
It's not a glory thing for any

1220
01:17:11,640 --> 01:17:15,600
of us that have done this, but
you take yourself out of it and

1221
01:17:15,600 --> 01:17:20,560
you bless people and you invest
in them and your life betters.

1222
01:17:21,160 --> 01:17:25,360
You begin to understand what it
means to be a minister, to be a

1223
01:17:25,360 --> 01:17:28,320
father, to truly care for
others.

1224
01:17:29,200 --> 01:17:33,240
And in the meantime, you're
genuinely helping someone who

1225
01:17:33,240 --> 01:17:38,040
genuinely needs help.
And the Father, our Father in

1226
01:17:38,040 --> 01:17:43,080
heaven, knows how to do this.
He just is anxious, anxious for

1227
01:17:43,080 --> 01:17:48,440
us to bless each other.
That was a great story that I

1228
01:17:48,440 --> 01:17:51,840
read that took place, and it's a
pretty familiar story.

1229
01:17:51,840 --> 01:17:53,320
I'm sure you've heard it a few
times.

1230
01:17:54,040 --> 01:17:57,760
There was a town in France I
believe, and it kind of their

1231
01:17:57,760 --> 01:18:01,560
claim to frame is they had this
one just Immaculate statue

1232
01:18:02,600 --> 01:18:06,240
commissioned where they of the
savior.

1233
01:18:07,160 --> 01:18:13,960
And of course, as happens, you
know, bombs fly and things get

1234
01:18:13,960 --> 01:18:17,960
destroyed.
And when the bombing had stopped

1235
01:18:19,640 --> 01:18:22,800
with just about everyone's homes
destroyed, right?

1236
01:18:22,800 --> 01:18:25,960
I think they said upwards of 3/4
of the homes were destroyed,

1237
01:18:25,960 --> 01:18:29,200
which means that you're housing
an entire community and

1238
01:18:29,200 --> 01:18:32,160
essentially 1/3 of the homes,
right?

1239
01:18:32,160 --> 01:18:35,280
They threw open the doors to
their, to their, their fellow

1240
01:18:35,280 --> 01:18:40,600
townsmen.
But during the cleanup, it was

1241
01:18:40,640 --> 01:18:42,200
what happened to the statue,
right?

1242
01:18:42,200 --> 01:18:46,560
It was, it was kind of their, it
was something that the community

1243
01:18:46,560 --> 01:18:49,320
valued in total.
And they went and they found the

1244
01:18:49,320 --> 01:18:54,160
statue and it was remarkably
intact except for the hands that

1245
01:18:54,160 --> 01:18:56,840
were destroyed during the
bombing.

1246
01:18:57,520 --> 01:19:00,840
So you have this statue of the
savior without hands, without

1247
01:19:00,840 --> 01:19:04,960
arms.
And so they actually held a town

1248
01:19:04,960 --> 01:19:07,640
meeting even in their current
situation to find out what they

1249
01:19:07,640 --> 01:19:09,240
were going to do about this
statue.

1250
01:19:10,840 --> 01:19:14,760
And they talked about, you know,
well, let's just see if we can't

1251
01:19:15,280 --> 01:19:18,520
find the original sculptor and,
you know, see if he can fix it.

1252
01:19:19,200 --> 01:19:21,840
And they said, well, we don't
even know if he's alive.

1253
01:19:22,280 --> 01:19:23,800
And two, we don't have any
money.

1254
01:19:24,280 --> 01:19:28,120
That's not an option, right?
And so, you know, they thought,

1255
01:19:28,120 --> 01:19:30,880
well, let's see what we can do.
And so they tried to fashion

1256
01:19:30,880 --> 01:19:32,400
some arms, but it just didn't
look.

1257
01:19:32,480 --> 01:19:36,480
Right.
And they had a third and final

1258
01:19:36,480 --> 01:19:40,080
meeting.
And the story goes is that there

1259
01:19:40,080 --> 01:19:44,400
was an old man in the back who
didn't talk much during the

1260
01:19:44,400 --> 01:19:48,520
first two meetings.
But he raises his hand and he

1261
01:19:48,520 --> 01:19:54,720
tells them his suggestion.
And they say that feels right.

1262
01:19:55,160 --> 01:20:00,280
And that's what they did.
His idea was this, leave the

1263
01:20:00,280 --> 01:20:07,880
arms off and let's just erect A
plaque that says the Lord has

1264
01:20:07,880 --> 01:20:10,120
given it to our hands to bless
people.

1265
01:20:12,680 --> 01:20:19,600
And that is a true principle.
Look, God in his omnipotent way

1266
01:20:19,600 --> 01:20:22,160
could bless every single one of
us and make sure we all have

1267
01:20:22,160 --> 01:20:24,560
what we need all the time, and
we wouldn't have to struggle.

1268
01:20:26,760 --> 01:20:28,480
But I don't think we'd learn
that way, Dave.

1269
01:20:28,640 --> 01:20:31,320
And we certainly wouldn't know
how to knit our hearts together.

1270
01:20:31,320 --> 01:20:34,280
And we couldn't have Zion
without it, right?

1271
01:20:35,520 --> 01:20:41,400
This idea of, of blessing other
people is so vital to forming

1272
01:20:41,400 --> 01:20:45,600
that brotherhood that we seek.
You know, I, I couple months

1273
01:20:45,600 --> 01:20:51,400
back I was reading in Matthew
chapter 16 and I verses 17 and

1274
01:20:51,400 --> 01:20:53,120
18.
I probably read the scripture

1275
01:20:53,120 --> 01:20:57,360
100 times and this never jumped
out at me quite like it did the

1276
01:20:57,400 --> 01:21:02,720
this night.
But it, it starts out and I'm

1277
01:21:02,720 --> 01:21:05,240
just going to read it here and
it says starting in 17.

1278
01:21:05,240 --> 01:21:07,680
And Jesus answered and said unto
him, Blessed art thou, Simon

1279
01:21:07,680 --> 01:21:11,360
Barjona, for flesh and blood
hath not revealed it unto thee,

1280
01:21:11,680 --> 01:21:13,200
but my Father, which is in
heaven.

1281
01:21:13,200 --> 01:21:17,000
Now this is when when Peter
testifies of of the Savior's

1282
01:21:17,000 --> 01:21:19,880
sonship and and him being the
Savior.

1283
01:21:20,800 --> 01:21:23,040
And this is where it gets
interesting in 18.

1284
01:21:23,720 --> 01:21:26,560
And he says, And I say unto
thee, that thou art Peter, and

1285
01:21:26,560 --> 01:21:30,960
upon this rock will I build my
church, and the gates of hell

1286
01:21:30,960 --> 01:21:37,600
shall not prevail against it.
Now that's a funny imagery,

1287
01:21:37,840 --> 01:21:39,520
right?
The gates of hell shall not

1288
01:21:39,520 --> 01:21:45,400
prevail against thee.
Because for a long time, Dave, I

1289
01:21:45,400 --> 01:21:48,080
thought what that gate was doing
was keeping hell out.

1290
01:21:50,480 --> 01:21:52,560
But that's a.
Funny way of wording it if

1291
01:21:52,560 --> 01:21:56,240
that's what he's implying.
What I think he is saying is

1292
01:21:57,040 --> 01:21:59,000
hell won't stop you from doing
your mission.

1293
01:22:00,400 --> 01:22:05,640
You will kick down the various
gates of hell, those various

1294
01:22:05,640 --> 01:22:09,160
stages of hell where people are
in both on this side of the veil

1295
01:22:09,160 --> 01:22:12,280
and the other.
And you're on a rescue mission,

1296
01:22:13,000 --> 01:22:15,920
right?
This, if there's one thing that

1297
01:22:15,920 --> 01:22:19,160
I don't like, it's kind of
passive discipleship, right?

1298
01:22:19,520 --> 01:22:21,480
At some point you got to do
something.

1299
01:22:21,880 --> 01:22:24,360
This isn't a, this isn't a
spectator sport.

1300
01:22:24,360 --> 01:22:26,960
You got to get in there, man.
You got to do stuff.

1301
01:22:27,360 --> 01:22:30,560
And the beautiful outgrowth of
that going on a rescue mission

1302
01:22:32,640 --> 01:22:35,160
is your heart is going to be
knit to somebody else's.

1303
01:22:36,600 --> 01:22:39,240
And maybe it's you that gets
rescued, right.

1304
01:22:39,240 --> 01:22:41,680
When someone does something,
what good when someone does

1305
01:22:41,680 --> 01:22:44,160
something in service for you,
how does it make you feel?

1306
01:22:46,200 --> 01:22:47,880
Right?
I, I don't know about anybody

1307
01:22:47,880 --> 01:22:51,160
else, but I tend to look at
somebody and it's real hard to

1308
01:22:51,160 --> 01:22:56,840
hold a grudge or to think
unkindly towards that person

1309
01:22:58,200 --> 01:23:01,520
because they are imparting a
little bit of who they are for

1310
01:23:01,520 --> 01:23:08,840
my benefit.
And it's, it's absolutely vital

1311
01:23:09,040 --> 01:23:14,120
that we get in the game, right.
And by getting in the game, you

1312
01:23:14,120 --> 01:23:18,440
will forge bonds of friendship
and brotherhood that will last

1313
01:23:18,440 --> 01:23:20,640
forever.
Yeah.

1314
01:23:21,160 --> 01:23:26,160
And that's a great, that's a
great segue into kind of the,

1315
01:23:26,360 --> 01:23:28,960
the deepest part of this whole
entire subject.

1316
01:23:30,720 --> 01:23:33,960
You know, we, we talk about
forming a real brotherhood.

1317
01:23:33,960 --> 01:23:37,800
We talk about these principles
that we ought to be treating all

1318
01:23:37,800 --> 01:23:44,680
of God's children.
And you know, the Lord laid out

1319
01:23:44,680 --> 01:23:53,240
a way, the Lord laid out a way
in the Scriptures for men to be

1320
01:23:53,240 --> 01:23:57,000
knit together.
And I think women too, they laid

1321
01:23:57,000 --> 01:24:01,240
out a way for men to be knit
together in covenant towards

1322
01:24:01,240 --> 01:24:04,560
each other.
And you, you know what I'm

1323
01:24:04,560 --> 01:24:08,240
talking about, I think.
But when he sets up the school,

1324
01:24:08,240 --> 01:24:12,720
the prophets in Section 88 and I
have pulled up brotherhood.

1325
01:24:13,560 --> 01:24:16,720
Yeah, I haven't pulled it 88133
Yeah, I got.

1326
01:24:16,720 --> 01:24:17,320
It.
Yeah.

1327
01:24:19,200 --> 01:24:20,440
Yeah.
Well, if you've got it, why

1328
01:24:20,440 --> 01:24:22,440
don't you read it?
I've got it too.

1329
01:24:22,480 --> 01:24:25,400
I'll read it with you.
Hey, art thou a brother or

1330
01:24:25,400 --> 01:24:27,600
brethren?
I salute you in the name of the

1331
01:24:27,600 --> 01:24:30,480
Lord Jesus Christ.
And this is where it starts to

1332
01:24:30,480 --> 01:24:34,120
get really beautiful.
In token of remembrance of the

1333
01:24:34,120 --> 01:24:38,160
everlasting covenant, in which
covenant I receive you to

1334
01:24:38,160 --> 01:24:43,000
fellowship in a determination
that is fixed and movable and

1335
01:24:43,000 --> 01:24:46,120
unchangeable.
To be your friend and brother

1336
01:24:46,560 --> 01:24:51,160
through the grace of God in the
bonds of love, to walk in all

1337
01:24:51,160 --> 01:24:53,800
the commandments of God,
blameless and Thanksgiving

1338
01:24:54,040 --> 01:24:55,720
forever and ever.
Amen.

1339
01:24:58,200 --> 01:25:03,400
It's absolutely astounding.
You, you think about this

1340
01:25:03,800 --> 01:25:11,680
covenant you could enter into
that's everlasting this, this

1341
01:25:11,680 --> 01:25:16,120
covenant, I believe, or
something similar is the

1342
01:25:16,120 --> 01:25:22,560
foundation or what we call
Elohim, the council of the Gods.

1343
01:25:23,640 --> 01:25:30,800
And over there, over there, they
gathered together in this same

1344
01:25:30,800 --> 01:25:34,600
spirit because they perfected
their characters and they've

1345
01:25:34,600 --> 01:25:37,760
gotten to this place, they've
blessed, they've blessed

1346
01:25:37,760 --> 01:25:39,320
everyone they've come in contact
with.

1347
01:25:39,600 --> 01:25:42,880
And now they've entered into a
covenant with each other that

1348
01:25:42,880 --> 01:25:45,840
they will receive them into
fellowship, that they're

1349
01:25:45,840 --> 01:25:49,760
determined to do this and
they'll befriend and brother in

1350
01:25:49,760 --> 01:25:53,360
the grace of God, in the bonds
of love to walk in all the

1351
01:25:53,360 --> 01:25:56,000
commandments.
This is a heavy duty covenant

1352
01:25:56,760 --> 01:25:59,960
that is often overlooked by
many, many people.

1353
01:26:00,800 --> 01:26:04,560
And you know Section 132 is to
be believed.

1354
01:26:04,680 --> 01:26:09,000
What does it say?
All covenants, all contracts,

1355
01:26:09,040 --> 01:26:13,480
all bonds, all associations, all
expectations, and on and on.

1356
01:26:13,760 --> 01:26:16,720
All these things that are made,
entered into and sealed by the

1357
01:26:16,720 --> 01:26:19,480
Holy Spirit of promise do not
have an end when men are dead,

1358
01:26:19,600 --> 01:26:22,400
including a covenant of
brotherhood.

1359
01:26:23,560 --> 01:26:29,040
We could sit and counsel with
brethren on the other side and

1360
01:26:29,040 --> 01:26:32,720
we can, you know, talk about
this.

1361
01:26:32,720 --> 01:26:38,480
This is what really talking
about is really, really having a

1362
01:26:38,480 --> 01:26:44,200
priesthood of our that's that's
a brotherhood, which is which

1363
01:26:44,200 --> 01:26:50,080
gives the priesthood power, by
the way, truly to being to be in

1364
01:26:50,080 --> 01:26:54,080
compliance with eternal law.
So here you have the the

1365
01:26:54,080 --> 01:26:58,320
covenant of brotherhood.
Now there's there's some teeth

1366
01:26:58,320 --> 01:27:03,320
in here that you walk in all the
commandments and that you'll be

1367
01:27:03,320 --> 01:27:06,600
a friend and brother.
You may enter into a covenant,

1368
01:27:07,120 --> 01:27:10,840
this covenant or one like it
throughout your lifetime.

1369
01:27:11,680 --> 01:27:14,560
Now what if one of your brethren
that you've entered into a

1370
01:27:14,560 --> 01:27:16,440
covenant?
What if he walks away?

1371
01:27:16,520 --> 01:27:19,080
Or what if he does something
that's not in compliance?

1372
01:27:19,880 --> 01:27:23,280
How do we learn?
How do we learn how to apply

1373
01:27:23,280 --> 01:27:28,080
this thing fully?
Because Christ came and died for

1374
01:27:28,080 --> 01:27:30,880
our sins, but he also died for
our grace.

1375
01:27:31,920 --> 01:27:35,080
And he knows we've got to take
these steps up a ladder and

1376
01:27:35,080 --> 01:27:37,680
we're not going to be good at
them in the beginning.

1377
01:27:38,160 --> 01:27:40,800
And none of us are going to be
perfect in the very beginning.

1378
01:27:41,760 --> 01:27:43,880
You know, we don't just enter
into this covenant and all of a

1379
01:27:43,880 --> 01:27:46,680
sudden you're a perfect brother,
right?

1380
01:27:47,120 --> 01:27:49,760
So how do you how do you apply
this?

1381
01:27:50,160 --> 01:27:53,440
We can all learn to be good to
our neighbors, but now it's

1382
01:27:53,440 --> 01:27:57,040
serious.
Does the scriptures say anything

1383
01:27:57,040 --> 01:28:01,000
about how to help?
I actually have some really

1384
01:28:01,000 --> 01:28:06,600
interesting, you know, DNC 42
Matthew chapter 18 those when

1385
01:28:06,600 --> 01:28:10,760
they talk about if your brother
trespasses against you, take him

1386
01:28:10,760 --> 01:28:14,600
between he and thee alone and
try to work out the problem.

1387
01:28:14,600 --> 01:28:18,120
And if you can't bring in a
mediator, an elder, a Bishop, or

1388
01:28:18,120 --> 01:28:21,800
somebody, try to work through
the problem, because the end

1389
01:28:21,800 --> 01:28:25,920
goal is not to just prove that
you're right.

1390
01:28:27,200 --> 01:28:33,240
It's actually to fulfill a
covenant to help each other walk

1391
01:28:33,240 --> 01:28:37,360
in the commandments of God, to
receive each other in fellowship

1392
01:28:37,360 --> 01:28:40,800
and friendship.
And the sisters can do the same

1393
01:28:40,800 --> 01:28:45,560
thing with their relationships,
sister wives or in the Relief

1394
01:28:45,560 --> 01:28:48,720
Society or mothers and
granddaughters, you name it,

1395
01:28:49,480 --> 01:28:52,360
they can do this too.
So lest they feel like they can

1396
01:28:52,360 --> 01:28:55,560
get out Scott free, it's just
for the men.

1397
01:28:55,560 --> 01:28:59,040
No, this, this is a big deal.
This is a community that we're

1398
01:28:59,040 --> 01:29:02,440
talking about.
You know, we, we, one of our

1399
01:29:02,440 --> 01:29:05,600
other podcasts, we talked about
the United Order.

1400
01:29:06,400 --> 01:29:10,280
If you don't have this at the
core, you know, it's going to

1401
01:29:10,280 --> 01:29:11,720
fail.
It's going to fail.

1402
01:29:11,800 --> 01:29:15,680
But you've got to be able to
hold people accountable.

1403
01:29:16,320 --> 01:29:21,360
Now Section 121, it's famous, it
gets quoted all the time, but it

1404
01:29:21,360 --> 01:29:23,200
really lays out a good
principle.

1405
01:29:23,920 --> 01:29:29,520
Sometimes the Lord reproves us
with sharpness, and then He says

1406
01:29:29,520 --> 01:29:33,440
afterwards showing forth a
greater degree of kindness, lest

1407
01:29:33,440 --> 01:29:36,800
He esteem thee to be thy enemy,
doesn't say the Lord, it says,

1408
01:29:37,120 --> 01:29:39,920
you know, that's sometimes what
we do, and it gives us this

1409
01:29:39,920 --> 01:29:43,280
outline.
Sometimes we have to hold people

1410
01:29:43,280 --> 01:29:46,960
accountable, that is true.
And there's going to be

1411
01:29:47,320 --> 01:29:49,760
difficult conversations in that
process.

1412
01:29:50,840 --> 01:29:55,800
But my experience is this.
When the person who has to hold

1413
01:29:55,800 --> 01:30:00,920
you accountable, when you know
beyond a shadow of a doubt that

1414
01:30:01,080 --> 01:30:07,720
they care more about you than
being right, you receive that

1415
01:30:07,720 --> 01:30:10,600
correction.
And they show forth that

1416
01:30:10,600 --> 01:30:13,920
afterwards a greater degree of
love, and you don't esteem them

1417
01:30:13,920 --> 01:30:17,440
to be the enemy.
In fact, your hearts are knit

1418
01:30:17,440 --> 01:30:22,080
together even more because you
have something real that's based

1419
01:30:22,080 --> 01:30:26,080
in the truth.
And not only that, but you were

1420
01:30:26,080 --> 01:30:31,120
given an opportunity to become
better and they were given an

1421
01:30:31,120 --> 01:30:37,360
opportunity to invest in you.
You can invest in others.

1422
01:30:37,360 --> 01:30:42,200
In the same way, we ought to not
stand up in front of our people

1423
01:30:42,200 --> 01:30:47,280
if we're ministers and just, you
know, flay them open all the

1424
01:30:47,280 --> 01:30:54,800
time, bless them first, and then
when correction is needed, do it

1425
01:30:54,800 --> 01:30:58,400
this way.
We do this with our kids, with

1426
01:30:58,400 --> 01:31:04,560
our wives, with our brethren,
whoever we're have interactions

1427
01:31:04,560 --> 01:31:07,240
with that we're responsible for
especially.

1428
01:31:08,640 --> 01:31:15,200
And I really, you know, I know
that this Section 88 verse 133

1429
01:31:15,200 --> 01:31:17,160
is in relation to the school of
prophets.

1430
01:31:18,800 --> 01:31:25,360
And what an idea, what an idea
to have a school of prophets

1431
01:31:27,480 --> 01:31:32,200
bound together in love, in the
commandments, together, doing

1432
01:31:32,200 --> 01:31:34,520
the will of God, learning from
each other.

1433
01:31:35,400 --> 01:31:40,360
That kind of a true force would
be unstoppable.

1434
01:31:41,600 --> 01:31:46,920
Absolutely, absolutely.
You know, and I think a big part

1435
01:31:46,920 --> 01:31:50,360
of that covenant too.
And it's something that I've not

1436
01:31:50,360 --> 01:31:52,920
where I'm at currently, but I've
witnessed it in other places.

1437
01:31:52,920 --> 01:31:56,800
I've witnessed it in the church
and, and in in various

1438
01:31:56,800 --> 01:32:01,440
circumstances at work.
There will be something that's

1439
01:32:01,440 --> 01:32:03,760
said or a rumor that gets
started.

1440
01:32:04,600 --> 01:32:08,040
And we are so quick to just
believe that, right?

1441
01:32:08,400 --> 01:32:13,280
And not take the scriptural
injunction that's given in 133,

1442
01:32:13,560 --> 01:32:18,080
I mean 88133 or the ones from
the New Testament about going to

1443
01:32:18,080 --> 01:32:22,360
your brother and and talking
those things out, right?

1444
01:32:22,680 --> 01:32:24,080
Just saying, look, man, I heard
this.

1445
01:32:24,080 --> 01:32:26,560
Is this true?
And then if it's true, get the

1446
01:32:26,560 --> 01:32:29,920
back story too, right?
So often I think we look at

1447
01:32:29,920 --> 01:32:33,800
things and this took me years to
figure out, right?

1448
01:32:33,800 --> 01:32:37,880
And, and again, woefully so,
shamefully so, I believe that

1449
01:32:37,880 --> 01:32:43,040
about 99% of people never start
out wanting to mess up or

1450
01:32:43,040 --> 01:32:47,040
wanting to do wrong, right.
I don't think that's anybody's

1451
01:32:47,040 --> 01:32:50,400
intent most of the time.
Now, certainly you can put

1452
01:32:50,400 --> 01:32:53,760
yourself in some really horrible
situations that is more

1453
01:32:53,760 --> 01:32:57,400
conducive to making mistakes and
you should avoid those where you

1454
01:32:57,400 --> 01:33:00,360
can.
But I don't think anybody ever

1455
01:33:00,360 --> 01:33:03,120
starts out with wanting to do
evil.

1456
01:33:03,400 --> 01:33:08,000
I think it's something that
happens as as you continue to

1457
01:33:08,000 --> 01:33:12,400
make make some bad decisions.
But I think we have to be very

1458
01:33:12,400 --> 01:33:17,720
careful.
I would never want to be judged

1459
01:33:17,720 --> 01:33:23,000
on my worst day, right?
And I try not to judge somebody

1460
01:33:23,000 --> 01:33:27,200
else on their worst day ever.
Sometimes that worst day is like

1461
01:33:27,200 --> 01:33:29,680
really, really bad.
And you can't you there's no way

1462
01:33:29,680 --> 01:33:32,680
around it, right?
But I think for the vast

1463
01:33:32,680 --> 01:33:37,680
majority of transgressions and
sins that we find, I think there

1464
01:33:37,680 --> 01:33:41,400
can be way more grace applied.
And certainly when we start

1465
01:33:41,400 --> 01:33:45,040
talking on, on the level of the
gospel and in our various

1466
01:33:45,040 --> 01:33:48,560
churches and groups and we have
disagreements.

1467
01:33:50,440 --> 01:33:53,920
I, I'm often drawn back to
something Joseph said about

1468
01:33:53,920 --> 01:33:55,200
Zion.
And I'm going to butcher this

1469
01:33:55,200 --> 01:33:56,760
quote.
I don't have it in front of me,

1470
01:33:57,360 --> 01:33:59,280
but Joseph says, why do we not
have Zion?

1471
01:33:59,440 --> 01:34:01,800
Because we can't stay together
long enough to get it.

1472
01:34:03,000 --> 01:34:08,360
We fly, we we just go at each
other over minutia.

1473
01:34:09,280 --> 01:34:13,480
Meanwhile we're missing the boat
we were we were on.

1474
01:34:13,520 --> 01:34:16,280
We were on the docks fist
fighting about who gets the

1475
01:34:16,280 --> 01:34:19,440
window seat.
Meanwhile, the boats taken off.

1476
01:34:21,760 --> 01:34:27,120
And we both, yeah, you know that
you bring up a good principle

1477
01:34:27,120 --> 01:34:32,480
because, you know, people do.
We hear things about each other

1478
01:34:32,960 --> 01:34:38,440
and we believe them, which
destroys the very fabric of this

1479
01:34:38,440 --> 01:34:44,960
covenant and brotherhood.
It gossip and all of the I don't

1480
01:34:44,960 --> 01:34:48,200
know how else to say it other
than horrors that accompany it,

1481
01:34:48,840 --> 01:34:53,320
just talk about people and and
and just make their lives

1482
01:34:53,320 --> 01:34:56,200
miserable without them even
being able to defend themselves.

1483
01:34:57,200 --> 01:35:01,800
And, you know, there's a story
that in the history of the

1484
01:35:01,800 --> 01:35:05,880
church and it's very applicable,
but there was a problem between

1485
01:35:05,880 --> 01:35:08,120
the First Presidency and the
corn of the 12.

1486
01:35:08,680 --> 01:35:11,240
There's been several of them,
but there was one in particular.

1487
01:35:11,240 --> 01:35:15,440
And it was, it was a real doozy.
And they really got in out of

1488
01:35:15,440 --> 01:35:19,240
sorts with each other.
But Joseph Smith gathered them

1489
01:35:19,240 --> 01:35:22,280
up and they, they, I've got the
story in front of me.

1490
01:35:22,480 --> 01:35:24,320
It's quite long, so I don't want
to read the whole thing.

1491
01:35:24,320 --> 01:35:31,160
But but they, he gathered them
up and he apologized.

1492
01:35:31,520 --> 01:35:33,160
He believes some things about
them.

1493
01:35:34,040 --> 01:35:37,400
The others had told him that
we're not true and their

1494
01:35:37,400 --> 01:35:42,800
feelings were hurt because of it
and they didn't act correctly

1495
01:35:42,800 --> 01:35:44,520
either.
And so there was a problem

1496
01:35:44,680 --> 01:35:47,360
between the two quorums.
But Joseph says something.

1497
01:35:47,360 --> 01:35:52,120
And I think this can be taken as
a a principle for how to behave

1498
01:35:52,120 --> 01:35:58,200
in a brotherhood.
He, Joseph, tells him this.

1499
01:35:59,040 --> 01:36:02,360
He says he makes a covenant with
the Quorum of the 12 at this

1500
01:36:02,360 --> 01:36:04,880
point.
So I will now covenant with you

1501
01:36:04,880 --> 01:36:08,240
before God, that I will not
listen to nor credit any

1502
01:36:08,240 --> 01:36:12,160
derogatory report against any of
you, nor condemn you upon any

1503
01:36:12,160 --> 01:36:15,360
testimony beneath the heavens,
short of that testimony which is

1504
01:36:15,360 --> 01:36:18,280
infallible, until I could see
you face to face and know the

1505
01:36:18,280 --> 01:36:20,800
surety.
And I do place unremitted

1506
01:36:20,800 --> 01:36:23,920
confidence in your word, for I
believe you to be men of truth.

1507
01:36:24,840 --> 01:36:27,880
And that's the same of you when
I tell you anything that you

1508
01:36:27,880 --> 01:36:31,840
place equal confidence in my
word, for I will not tell you I

1509
01:36:31,840 --> 01:36:34,560
know anything that I do not
know.

1510
01:36:36,440 --> 01:36:39,120
And he just lays it out for
them, saying I'm not going to

1511
01:36:39,120 --> 01:36:40,640
believe gossip anymore about
you.

1512
01:36:41,360 --> 01:36:44,400
And I believe after a
conversation, because they

1513
01:36:44,400 --> 01:36:47,640
reconciled, that I believe you
to be interested in the truth.

1514
01:36:47,800 --> 01:36:49,600
And I believe that you want
what's right.

1515
01:36:50,360 --> 01:36:53,320
And this, this is one of the
ways that you can soothe

1516
01:36:53,320 --> 01:36:58,320
feelings and emotions by
admitting fault when there's

1517
01:36:58,320 --> 01:37:03,840
problems in in our councils, you
know, there are people all over

1518
01:37:04,000 --> 01:37:08,960
who have circles of influence
and call it a, a quorum or a

1519
01:37:08,960 --> 01:37:13,760
council or a brotherhood.
They exist in probably all the

1520
01:37:13,760 --> 01:37:17,560
groups.
How do we navigate some of those

1521
01:37:17,560 --> 01:37:21,240
complexities?
Because stuffing it all inside

1522
01:37:21,240 --> 01:37:24,280
and pretending everything's OK,
that doesn't work well in your

1523
01:37:24,280 --> 01:37:26,480
marriage.
It won't work well there.

1524
01:37:27,520 --> 01:37:31,920
But having these conversations
and really working through them

1525
01:37:32,440 --> 01:37:35,440
and if you need to make a
promise to each other, we've

1526
01:37:35,440 --> 01:37:38,720
been through this now I promise
I will do better.

1527
01:37:39,360 --> 01:37:43,200
I will listen.
I will try to not get angry and

1528
01:37:43,680 --> 01:37:49,080
and actually do those things.
You would see men and women who

1529
01:37:49,080 --> 01:37:54,120
could bless the whole entire
earth because you can't do that

1530
01:37:54,440 --> 01:37:57,760
with the brethren that are
around you, the ones that you

1531
01:37:57,760 --> 01:38:03,480
have close associations with and
have that not spill over into

1532
01:38:03,560 --> 01:38:07,640
your acquaintances at work, your
acquaintances in the church and

1533
01:38:08,040 --> 01:38:10,640
and in the community as a as a
whole.

1534
01:38:10,920 --> 01:38:14,800
That because you start changing
inside of you and you become a

1535
01:38:14,800 --> 01:38:17,560
light unto all that you come in
contact with.

1536
01:38:18,200 --> 01:38:20,160
This is the purpose.
If anything.

1537
01:38:20,760 --> 01:38:24,600
If anything, we should be
applying these principles

1538
01:38:25,160 --> 01:38:27,280
because we want to be God's
people.

1539
01:38:28,760 --> 01:38:31,640
Yes.
And this is just good.

1540
01:38:32,080 --> 01:38:38,160
This is just good.
You know, 100% and we're, you

1541
01:38:38,160 --> 01:38:41,120
know, you were talking about how
do we navigate that?

1542
01:38:41,920 --> 01:38:49,040
And I, I look at my, my own self
for, for correction on this.

1543
01:38:49,320 --> 01:38:53,480
It took, took again, took me
years to to apply this and

1544
01:38:53,480 --> 01:38:55,800
figure this out.
And I'm still not perfect at it,

1545
01:38:56,640 --> 01:39:01,720
but something happens to people
and I haven't figured out why.

1546
01:39:01,720 --> 01:39:03,960
I don't understand the
mechanisms.

1547
01:39:04,840 --> 01:39:09,320
But often times when someone
says something that we disagree

1548
01:39:09,320 --> 01:39:12,480
with, we will attach motive to
that.

1549
01:39:14,920 --> 01:39:17,320
We will say, oh, I know why he's
doing this, right?

1550
01:39:17,320 --> 01:39:21,720
He's he's got all these I'll
intense, right, Stop that, stop

1551
01:39:21,720 --> 01:39:25,640
that.
Sometimes they have that idea,

1552
01:39:25,720 --> 01:39:30,040
even if you think it's a bad
idea, they have it because

1553
01:39:30,800 --> 01:39:32,920
probably their life experience,
right?

1554
01:39:33,240 --> 01:39:38,120
And so those light, those early
life experiences largely make up

1555
01:39:38,120 --> 01:39:40,560
the filter through which we view
everything.

1556
01:39:42,600 --> 01:39:45,600
And then the, the other thing
I've noticed is and, and in

1557
01:39:45,600 --> 01:39:50,600
these times when I've caught
myself, which again, isn't as

1558
01:39:50,880 --> 01:39:55,640
often as it should be as I've
caught myself, I've had to ask

1559
01:39:55,640 --> 01:39:58,120
myself a question, OK, why do I
feel this way all of a sudden,

1560
01:39:58,480 --> 01:40:01,640
right?
Why do I, why do I want to

1561
01:40:01,640 --> 01:40:05,400
assign an intent there?
Maybe there's no intent there

1562
01:40:05,400 --> 01:40:07,600
other than that's just the way
he sees it.

1563
01:40:08,040 --> 01:40:09,960
And if that's just the way he
sees it?

1564
01:40:10,440 --> 01:40:15,520
And he's not doing damage to to
the group and he's not doing

1565
01:40:15,520 --> 01:40:18,560
damage to ordinances or any of
those other things.

1566
01:40:21,080 --> 01:40:22,640
I don't care what someone else
believes.

1567
01:40:23,000 --> 01:40:25,600
And Joseph didn't really care
what someone else believes.

1568
01:40:26,000 --> 01:40:29,760
And let's remember, both Brigham
and Joseph talked about there

1569
01:40:29,760 --> 01:40:34,920
would be other faiths in Zion
during the Millennium, right?

1570
01:40:35,280 --> 01:40:38,240
I think he mentions
Presbyterians and Methodists in

1571
01:40:38,240 --> 01:40:42,800
particular, right?
So I don't know how, how all

1572
01:40:42,800 --> 01:40:45,920
that works, Dave.
I, I don't know how that all

1573
01:40:46,960 --> 01:40:50,800
gets figured out, but I trust
the Lord to do that because I

1574
01:40:50,800 --> 01:40:52,520
can't look at somebody else's
heart.

1575
01:40:52,680 --> 01:40:56,960
I wish I could, right?
I think we might get into that

1576
01:40:56,960 --> 01:41:00,960
place once in a while where we
can, we, we, we have our vision

1577
01:41:00,960 --> 01:41:04,320
expanded and, and, and our
perspective shifts.

1578
01:41:04,680 --> 01:41:07,760
But more times than not, we
don't know what, what was in

1579
01:41:07,760 --> 01:41:10,000
that other person's heart.
We don't know what made it up.

1580
01:41:10,640 --> 01:41:15,160
And often times what I've
discovered is that when someone

1581
01:41:15,160 --> 01:41:18,000
says something puts forth a bad
idea with which I disagree with.

1582
01:41:18,480 --> 01:41:22,000
And and it does kind of start
those feelings to well up there

1583
01:41:22,000 --> 01:41:23,320
of getting riled up a little
bit.

1584
01:41:23,680 --> 01:41:26,320
I'm like, OK, maybe I'm insecure
in what I believe.

1585
01:41:26,320 --> 01:41:28,520
And maybe that's what this is,
right?

1586
01:41:28,920 --> 01:41:31,320
And those, look, I'm not, I'll
be the first guy to tell you

1587
01:41:32,440 --> 01:41:35,360
that stinks on ice having to ask
that question, right?

1588
01:41:35,720 --> 01:41:41,840
And but it's healthy, right?
And some some ideas I've let go

1589
01:41:42,320 --> 01:41:45,400
because I'm like, maybe I'm not
as firm on this as what I

1590
01:41:45,400 --> 01:41:50,400
thought I was.
And maybe I need to to, to do

1591
01:41:50,400 --> 01:41:52,800
some more investigation there.
And sometimes I've walked away

1592
01:41:52,800 --> 01:41:54,760
even more convinced.
And other times I've been like,

1593
01:41:55,120 --> 01:41:58,320
yeah, it was probably a crappy
idea on my part and I just need

1594
01:41:58,320 --> 01:42:02,640
to accept this correction and
say I don't know.

1595
01:42:02,640 --> 01:42:05,680
Or, heaven forbid, maybe even I
was wrong.

1596
01:42:06,360 --> 01:42:10,680
Right.
Well, we you just something I've

1597
01:42:10,680 --> 01:42:14,920
learned in relationships, you
will always get farther if you

1598
01:42:14,920 --> 01:42:22,120
can approach a problem from the
very beginning, having a view of

1599
01:42:22,120 --> 01:42:26,960
yourself, saying you might be
wrong, even if you're probably

1600
01:42:26,960 --> 01:42:31,040
not, even if you're really,
really sure, when you go to have

1601
01:42:31,040 --> 01:42:35,040
these conversations, they're
difficult with your brother,

1602
01:42:35,040 --> 01:42:39,120
with your wife, with your
children, whoever approach it

1603
01:42:39,120 --> 01:42:43,960
carefully and learn to listen.
This has been the hardest lesson

1604
01:42:43,960 --> 01:42:48,880
for me, especially because as
anyone can attest by our

1605
01:42:48,880 --> 01:42:52,280
conversations, man, I must love
the sound of my own voice.

1606
01:42:52,800 --> 01:42:57,400
Listening is really, really hard
for me because it gets awkward.

1607
01:42:57,400 --> 01:42:59,280
I just want to talk.
I just want to talk and fill up

1608
01:42:59,280 --> 01:43:01,560
the silence.
But learning to listen to

1609
01:43:01,560 --> 01:43:06,520
another person and say, help me
understand your perspective,

1610
01:43:07,880 --> 01:43:12,160
because that immediately starts
to take out this temptation to

1611
01:43:12,160 --> 01:43:15,120
assign a motive, because that's
what we want to do.

1612
01:43:15,320 --> 01:43:18,560
We really want to assign a
motive so that we can prove that

1613
01:43:18,560 --> 01:43:20,920
they're wrong.
And not only are they wrong,

1614
01:43:21,240 --> 01:43:26,000
they are wrong because they have
a bad motive and they want to

1615
01:43:26,000 --> 01:43:28,960
destroy me or whatever.
There's all kinds of motives.

1616
01:43:29,640 --> 01:43:37,280
But if we stop and pause and
say, I want to just hear you

1617
01:43:37,280 --> 01:43:41,240
out, that will bring about a
certain kind of spirit in your

1618
01:43:41,240 --> 01:43:45,080
conversation or the other person
will then want to hear you out.

1619
01:43:45,360 --> 01:43:47,320
And if they don't, it's their
loss.

1620
01:43:48,000 --> 01:43:51,120
But now you understand them, you
have invested in them.

1621
01:43:51,840 --> 01:43:55,560
And even if you walk away and
say thank you for expressing

1622
01:43:55,560 --> 01:43:58,360
yourself, now you can think
about it.

1623
01:43:58,480 --> 01:44:02,560
And when, you know, I got called
out a little bit ago, couple of

1624
01:44:02,560 --> 01:44:05,360
weeks ago, and it was really an
interesting experience because

1625
01:44:05,960 --> 01:44:09,520
somebody is kind of on a basic
point of the gospel, but

1626
01:44:09,520 --> 01:44:12,880
somebody says, Hey, I noticed
you, you're not very good at

1627
01:44:12,880 --> 01:44:16,720
this thing, you know, and, and
immediately I wanted to justify

1628
01:44:16,720 --> 01:44:19,360
myself and I wanted to say,
well, you just think that

1629
01:44:19,360 --> 01:44:22,000
because you're, you want to be
better than me and, and

1630
01:44:22,000 --> 01:44:23,680
everything.
And, you know, I had to stop.

1631
01:44:24,360 --> 01:44:26,480
I had to stop.
It was a conversation over

1632
01:44:26,480 --> 01:44:28,240
texting.
I just stopped.

1633
01:44:28,400 --> 01:44:30,920
And I said, you know, I'll get
back with you tomorrow.

1634
01:44:31,800 --> 01:44:34,760
I got to process this.
I know right now if I let my

1635
01:44:34,760 --> 01:44:36,680
emotions start doing the
talking, I'm going to cause a

1636
01:44:36,680 --> 01:44:38,800
lot of damage.
I didn't say that to him, but I

1637
01:44:38,800 --> 01:44:42,480
knew.
And I stopped, just got myself

1638
01:44:42,480 --> 01:44:47,080
busy, prayed about it, thought
about it through the night, came

1639
01:44:47,080 --> 01:44:48,920
back the next day and said, you
know what?

1640
01:44:50,120 --> 01:44:51,520
There's something to what you're
saying.

1641
01:44:51,800 --> 01:44:53,440
Maybe you don't see the whole
picture.

1642
01:44:53,440 --> 01:44:55,920
Maybe you don't understand where
I'm coming from all the way.

1643
01:44:56,360 --> 01:44:59,000
But you make a good point.
But I do better.

1644
01:44:59,320 --> 01:45:04,240
Yeah, I can do better, and I
probably need to do better,

1645
01:45:04,560 --> 01:45:07,000
because who of us is perfect in
everything we do.

1646
01:45:08,200 --> 01:45:13,640
And I have appreciated the I'm
going to read something from

1647
01:45:13,640 --> 01:45:16,720
Brigham because I've appreciated
when people's done this to me.

1648
01:45:16,880 --> 01:45:21,000
Brigham Young says General's
Discourses 9 age 124.

1649
01:45:21,680 --> 01:45:25,400
If a man is out of the way, is
the duty of his brethren to tell

1650
01:45:25,400 --> 01:45:28,520
him of it in a kind and friendly
spirit.

1651
01:45:30,000 --> 01:45:33,600
When someone has done that for
me in a kind of friendly spirit,

1652
01:45:34,960 --> 01:45:40,320
man, the power it has over my
mind and I go, you know, I want

1653
01:45:40,320 --> 01:45:44,640
to do better now I do, because
they're not attacking me.

1654
01:45:44,640 --> 01:45:46,120
They're not throwing me under
the bus.

1655
01:45:46,880 --> 01:45:48,880
But I'll take correction however
it comes.

1656
01:45:49,080 --> 01:45:53,600
But correction done in that way
has had more of a positive

1657
01:45:53,600 --> 01:45:56,960
effect at times than even
flattering words.

1658
01:45:57,880 --> 01:46:01,080
Or people praise your good
virtues and they say, hey, I

1659
01:46:01,080 --> 01:46:04,920
noticed you did this and it
wasn't good and it wasn't useful

1660
01:46:05,160 --> 01:46:07,560
and you can feel all down and
depressed for a minute.

1661
01:46:08,560 --> 01:46:11,520
You can even stay there I guess
if you want to, but it's not

1662
01:46:11,520 --> 01:46:14,840
advised.
This is what repentance is for.

1663
01:46:16,040 --> 01:46:20,280
Do better, take a step forward
and watch your whole world

1664
01:46:20,280 --> 01:46:23,960
change.
Absolutely.

1665
01:46:24,960 --> 01:46:30,400
I, I, I think we live in such a
world now that and it's

1666
01:46:30,400 --> 01:46:35,960
unfortunate it took took the
events that we've witnessed as

1667
01:46:35,960 --> 01:46:38,040
of late for me to to really
realize it.

1668
01:46:38,880 --> 01:46:43,400
But we've got to let that light
shine, right?

1669
01:46:45,640 --> 01:46:50,360
Especially amongst our our own,
certainly to the world, I think,

1670
01:46:54,320 --> 01:47:01,240
I think, I think the price of
discipleship is, is to be

1671
01:47:01,240 --> 01:47:03,560
present.
We're not sent out into the

1672
01:47:03,560 --> 01:47:09,720
world to simply hunker down and
wait for the end, right?

1673
01:47:10,280 --> 01:47:13,440
I think, I think the Savior
expects us to be change agents

1674
01:47:15,120 --> 01:47:19,320
and to be those agents of change
for the better.

1675
01:47:20,000 --> 01:47:25,320
We have to be willing to engage
and engage, quite frankly, with

1676
01:47:25,320 --> 01:47:27,440
an open heart.
And that's spooky, right?

1677
01:47:27,680 --> 01:47:30,720
Because if you approach someone
with an open heart, you're

1678
01:47:30,720 --> 01:47:37,040
vulnerable, you're exposed, and
you risk getting hurt.

1679
01:47:37,680 --> 01:47:40,400
I won't sugarcoat it.
You risk getting hurt.

1680
01:47:41,520 --> 01:47:47,200
But would any of us ever say I
don't want to marry a spouse

1681
01:47:47,720 --> 01:47:51,240
because I'm afraid of the end.
Gosh, I don't know what's going

1682
01:47:51,240 --> 01:47:53,400
to happen.
I could lose my spouse in a

1683
01:47:53,400 --> 01:47:55,920
horrible car accident.
Then what do I do?

1684
01:47:56,920 --> 01:48:02,560
I mean, if we lived in such a,
in such a state as that we miss,

1685
01:48:02,880 --> 01:48:10,280
we miss out on so much.
And to go along with that, I

1686
01:48:10,280 --> 01:48:14,040
think sometimes, and, and this
is, this is really guilty

1687
01:48:14,040 --> 01:48:17,840
amongst the brethren, myself
perhaps more than anybody else,

1688
01:48:18,400 --> 01:48:22,760
when a loved one has a problem
or, or anybody that I feel a

1689
01:48:22,760 --> 01:48:28,000
vested interest in, my first, my
first thing is, OK, how do I fix

1690
01:48:28,000 --> 01:48:28,880
this?
I got to fix this.

1691
01:48:29,120 --> 01:48:31,040
I got to help them fix it.
Right.

1692
01:48:31,720 --> 01:48:36,960
And what's interesting is that
nowhere in in the Scripture

1693
01:48:36,960 --> 01:48:40,640
where where Alma's getting ready
to baptize and he's putting

1694
01:48:40,640 --> 01:48:45,760
people under covenant, does he
say, you know, and you'll mourn

1695
01:48:45,760 --> 01:48:48,000
with them and then you're going
to help them fix their problems.

1696
01:48:48,840 --> 01:48:51,520
No, he says, you're just going
to mourn with those that mourn,

1697
01:48:51,720 --> 01:48:54,520
right.
And sometimes that's just to be

1698
01:48:54,520 --> 01:48:56,920
there, just to be there with
them.

1699
01:48:58,360 --> 01:49:02,000
And I, I can't, I can't help
escaping that thought that there

1700
01:49:02,000 --> 01:49:05,160
is there's something powerful in
mourning with somebody else.

1701
01:49:05,480 --> 01:49:12,000
Not trying to fix it, not trying
to, to make it better, right?

1702
01:49:12,000 --> 01:49:15,040
Then sometimes you just got to
go through the fire with them.

1703
01:49:16,080 --> 01:49:20,400
And for for guys, that's tough
because we want to fix it.

1704
01:49:20,400 --> 01:49:23,200
All right, give me some duct
tape and a hammer.

1705
01:49:23,240 --> 01:49:27,360
I'll put it back together.
But that doesn't always work.

1706
01:49:28,440 --> 01:49:30,720
No, it doesn't.
And what you're talking about

1707
01:49:30,720 --> 01:49:35,840
when you mourn with people is is
you learn to suffer with them.

1708
01:49:38,000 --> 01:49:41,360
And it is so against our nature,
especially as men like you say

1709
01:49:41,560 --> 01:49:43,840
it is.
It's probably the number one

1710
01:49:43,840 --> 01:49:46,160
complaints that most wives have
against their husbands.

1711
01:49:47,200 --> 01:49:50,960
I just want you to listen to me
and be empathetic.

1712
01:49:51,280 --> 01:49:53,440
But all you try to do is tell me
how to fix my problem.

1713
01:49:54,160 --> 01:49:57,960
And it seems so obvious to us.
You know, it's not about the

1714
01:49:57,960 --> 01:50:01,360
nail.
That famous thing on, you know,

1715
01:50:01,360 --> 01:50:04,280
the lady has the nail and in her
head, and I just have this

1716
01:50:04,280 --> 01:50:06,440
pounding headaches and she's
trying to explain it.

1717
01:50:06,440 --> 01:50:08,560
And he's like, well, yeah, you
got a nail on your head.

1718
01:50:09,440 --> 01:50:11,440
You know, I mean, we just pull
it out.

1719
01:50:11,440 --> 01:50:15,360
It would be all better, but.
But you know the this difference

1720
01:50:15,360 --> 01:50:19,760
between men and women, but but
it we see this even amongst men

1721
01:50:19,760 --> 01:50:25,400
and men, if we would learn to
suffer with each other truly.

1722
01:50:26,880 --> 01:50:30,160
And that means helping when
needed to be helped.

1723
01:50:30,640 --> 01:50:35,760
And sometimes there's no helping
that can be done when you've had

1724
01:50:35,760 --> 01:50:38,560
one of your dear friends lose a
child.

1725
01:50:40,040 --> 01:50:44,280
There's no helping that.
There's no magic words you can

1726
01:50:44,280 --> 01:50:48,080
say that make it all better.
You can say I'm going to sit

1727
01:50:48,080 --> 01:50:50,840
here with you so you're not
alone.

1728
01:50:52,040 --> 01:50:55,120
I know it probably doesn't seem
like it helps much, but it

1729
01:50:55,120 --> 01:50:57,240
helps.
It helps a lot.

1730
01:50:57,760 --> 01:51:01,200
People's prayers help a lot.
And if we're going to be the

1731
01:51:01,200 --> 01:51:05,480
kind of people to deal out
solutions, we need to be the

1732
01:51:05,480 --> 01:51:09,040
kind of people that are willing
to receive others help too.

1733
01:51:09,760 --> 01:51:12,280
People need to suffer with us
and we need to suffer with them.

1734
01:51:13,400 --> 01:51:16,760
And this is, I mean, I know
we're, we're going all over, but

1735
01:51:16,760 --> 01:51:21,640
it, this all connected theme
really boils down to this.

1736
01:51:23,040 --> 01:51:26,240
Christ suffered for us.
Are we willing to do the same

1737
01:51:26,240 --> 01:51:33,200
for others?
Absolutely, Absolutely.

1738
01:51:34,080 --> 01:51:40,880
I, I think if we want Zion, I
think we have to do this.

1739
01:51:41,080 --> 01:51:43,040
I think we have to gain this
brotherhood.

1740
01:51:43,080 --> 01:51:44,960
I don't think there's any way
around it.

1741
01:51:47,240 --> 01:51:52,760
And I think it's going to
require us to redefine what the

1742
01:51:52,760 --> 01:51:55,840
Lord really means.
Or, or let me rephrase this, I

1743
01:51:55,840 --> 01:51:59,720
think it's, it's going to take
us figuring out what the Lord

1744
01:51:59,720 --> 01:52:04,000
really means by Zion being a
people of 1 heart and one mind

1745
01:52:04,680 --> 01:52:06,880
forever.
I thought that meant, oh, we'll

1746
01:52:06,880 --> 01:52:09,800
just agree on everything.
That's what that will be.

1747
01:52:10,640 --> 01:52:13,200
But the older I get, the more
I'm like, I don't think that's

1748
01:52:13,200 --> 01:52:17,960
what he's talking about.
I think I think there's going to

1749
01:52:17,960 --> 01:52:21,240
be differences of opinion all
the way through this and that's

1750
01:52:21,240 --> 01:52:23,720
good.
That is good.

1751
01:52:26,360 --> 01:52:32,280
One last story I I want to
relate from Philadelphia here is

1752
01:52:32,680 --> 01:52:36,680
the men that went into hammer
out what would become the

1753
01:52:36,680 --> 01:52:38,400
Constitution of the United
States.

1754
01:52:40,160 --> 01:52:43,280
Jefferson wasn't part of that.
Jefferson was was over in France

1755
01:52:43,280 --> 01:52:48,560
still as an ambassador.
But when Madison writes to him

1756
01:52:48,560 --> 01:52:52,960
and says what's happening,
Jefferson was quoted as saying,

1757
01:52:52,960 --> 01:52:57,960
you've assembled a group of
demigods, right?

1758
01:52:58,560 --> 01:53:04,120
Meaning these were men who were
very intelligent, very

1759
01:53:04,120 --> 01:53:08,720
passionate, many of them had
bled for their country already.

1760
01:53:10,960 --> 01:53:14,200
And there's a great book called
Miracle in Philadelphia which

1761
01:53:14,200 --> 01:53:20,600
chronicles the this process.
And there were vehement

1762
01:53:20,600 --> 01:53:27,160
disagreements, vehement
disagreements about all sorts of

1763
01:53:27,160 --> 01:53:31,320
things ranging from taxation to
slavery.

1764
01:53:31,640 --> 01:53:33,960
How strong is the executive
branch going to be?

1765
01:53:34,160 --> 01:53:35,760
Should we have an executive
branch?

1766
01:53:35,920 --> 01:53:39,800
One guy suggested we should have
a king with term limits, Right?

1767
01:53:39,800 --> 01:53:40,920
I mean like.
It was.

1768
01:53:41,040 --> 01:53:47,560
All over the place, right?
And several times Franklin calls

1769
01:53:48,160 --> 01:53:50,800
for them just to take a break
and get on their knees and pray

1770
01:53:53,000 --> 01:53:55,960
because he recognized it was
going off the rails.

1771
01:53:59,200 --> 01:54:01,480
But what was the result of all
that disagreement?

1772
01:54:02,240 --> 01:54:05,280
Well, they, they first hung
together, right?

1773
01:54:06,320 --> 01:54:09,000
There was, there was no real
imperative that they hang

1774
01:54:09,000 --> 01:54:12,520
together as tight as they did
because they were no longer

1775
01:54:13,240 --> 01:54:17,640
fighting off the British, right?
The, the, the, the actual life

1776
01:54:17,640 --> 01:54:21,920
and death stuff had kind of
passed, but they stuck together.

1777
01:54:22,880 --> 01:54:27,080
And what I find interesting is
that and, and the author makes

1778
01:54:27,080 --> 01:54:32,320
the point and I think I think
she's correct, that we would not

1779
01:54:32,320 --> 01:54:35,880
have had a as a durable
constitution as what we've had

1780
01:54:36,840 --> 01:54:43,720
without some of that friction
that it's out of the, the

1781
01:54:43,720 --> 01:54:48,840
sorting through those ideas and
all of that.

1782
01:54:48,920 --> 01:54:56,640
But yet staying together, that
produces what has been the most

1783
01:54:56,640 --> 01:55:00,840
durable form of government,
representative government that

1784
01:55:00,840 --> 01:55:05,680
the world has ever seen.
But that doesn't come without a

1785
01:55:05,680 --> 01:55:08,200
cost.
And so I look at those men and I

1786
01:55:08,200 --> 01:55:12,800
say, well, were they united?
I think they were.

1787
01:55:13,480 --> 01:55:18,480
I don't think it fit my version
of unity that I had an

1788
01:55:18,480 --> 01:55:23,040
understanding of earlier on, but
I think there definitely was a

1789
01:55:23,040 --> 01:55:27,920
brotherhood there and somehow
they managed to get it done.

1790
01:55:29,360 --> 01:55:32,040
Likewise, we can see in the
Restoration, there were

1791
01:55:32,040 --> 01:55:40,320
tremendous disagreements.
But before Joseph dies, people

1792
01:55:40,320 --> 01:55:43,800
go, they come back, they go
again, right?

1793
01:55:43,800 --> 01:55:46,840
I mean, there's all of this, but
there was a core group.

1794
01:55:47,360 --> 01:55:51,280
There was a core group of guys
who just took what would become

1795
01:55:51,280 --> 01:55:57,720
DNC 88133 and they lived it.
And as I look at this idea of

1796
01:55:57,720 --> 01:56:02,280
gaining that brotherhood that is
so vital that quite frankly can

1797
01:56:02,280 --> 01:56:06,680
be a remedy to so much of what
divides Mormonism and quite

1798
01:56:06,680 --> 01:56:10,400
frankly, the country on, on on
the on the macro level.

1799
01:56:12,480 --> 01:56:15,480
That's that's the bomb.
I think that can heal some of

1800
01:56:15,480 --> 01:56:16,440
this.
Right.

1801
01:56:16,840 --> 01:56:21,680
Is is that man and brother?
Yeah.

1802
01:56:21,760 --> 01:56:22,640
He is.
Right.

1803
01:56:24,320 --> 01:56:27,600
He is.
And because he's a brother, I am

1804
01:56:27,600 --> 01:56:31,120
no better than he is.
I disagree with him and I'm not

1805
01:56:31,120 --> 01:56:35,240
going to back down, but I'm not
going to just cast him aside.

1806
01:56:35,320 --> 01:56:40,040
And I think that's I, I think,
you know, take it with a huge

1807
01:56:40,040 --> 01:56:42,000
grain of salt.
I think that's how we get there,

1808
01:56:42,000 --> 01:56:45,840
Dave.
Well, and we and we start that

1809
01:56:45,840 --> 01:56:50,520
process in the circles of
influence that we have wherever

1810
01:56:50,520 --> 01:56:54,920
they are, because if we're of
the same spirit, we'll begin to

1811
01:56:54,920 --> 01:56:58,640
grow together.
And if we want to have something

1812
01:56:58,640 --> 01:57:03,320
that's that's truly lasting, you
mentioned the government, as

1813
01:57:03,320 --> 01:57:06,360
long as it's lasted, we're
talking about an eternal

1814
01:57:06,920 --> 01:57:09,840
covenant.
You better believe there's going

1815
01:57:09,840 --> 01:57:11,400
to be some obstacles to
overcome.

1816
01:57:12,080 --> 01:57:15,280
There's going to be some things
that we get to chip off of

1817
01:57:15,280 --> 01:57:20,200
ourselves and help bless each
other, but never giving up,

1818
01:57:21,120 --> 01:57:24,800
never giving up doing our best.
You know, we can go through our

1819
01:57:24,800 --> 01:57:28,320
histories, we can see splinters,
we can see people.

1820
01:57:28,520 --> 01:57:31,920
And I don't fault any of those
brethren because I understand

1821
01:57:32,320 --> 01:57:36,680
it's difficult and I may have
done the same thing, but can I

1822
01:57:36,680 --> 01:57:39,120
learn from those mistakes and
can I do better?

1823
01:57:39,640 --> 01:57:42,880
There's the truth, like we said
in the very beginning, there's

1824
01:57:42,880 --> 01:57:47,520
the truth, and we can stand on
true principle, but we ought to

1825
01:57:47,520 --> 01:57:50,560
be able to treat each other with
brotherhood.

1826
01:57:50,560 --> 01:57:55,160
And you want to convince the
human mind, treat him that way.

1827
01:57:56,000 --> 01:57:58,160
You want to help someone see a
different perspective.

1828
01:57:59,040 --> 01:58:01,560
Don't just divide over the first
thing that happens.

1829
01:58:02,880 --> 01:58:07,760
You know, the Scriptures tell
us, can the hand say to the I, I

1830
01:58:07,760 --> 01:58:10,480
have no need of thee?
You know, the Savior brings up

1831
01:58:10,480 --> 01:58:14,680
that parable.
You know, who's to say who we

1832
01:58:14,680 --> 01:58:18,680
need and who we don't?
But the eye and the hand and the

1833
01:58:18,680 --> 01:58:22,120
foot and all these parts of the
body are probably going to be

1834
01:58:22,120 --> 01:58:27,120
used for very different things.
And I think it's DNC Section 46

1835
01:58:27,520 --> 01:58:30,680
says that to some is given one
gift and to some is given

1836
01:58:30,680 --> 01:58:32,760
another that the whole may be
profited.

1837
01:58:33,480 --> 01:58:36,640
How much are we missing because
we haven't been able to

1838
01:58:36,640 --> 01:58:40,200
reconcile our differences?
Some things I realize are big

1839
01:58:40,200 --> 01:58:44,200
deal to people and I don't want
to negate that.

1840
01:58:44,480 --> 01:58:49,520
But then the same time I go, do
we have a responsibility to try

1841
01:58:49,520 --> 01:58:52,080
to work through it?
Do we have a responsibility to

1842
01:58:52,080 --> 01:58:54,640
try to do better?
I'm not going to tell people

1843
01:58:54,640 --> 01:58:58,600
what to do.
All I know is that I can create

1844
01:58:58,600 --> 01:59:00,800
friendships and we can learn to
disagree.

1845
01:59:01,240 --> 01:59:03,680
What's that famous statement
that Joseph made?

1846
01:59:04,800 --> 01:59:07,920
You know, don't fault someone
for airing in doctrine.

1847
01:59:07,960 --> 01:59:13,280
It's no sin.
And yet we can still associate

1848
01:59:13,280 --> 01:59:17,000
with them and even have them in
the church because it's not a

1849
01:59:17,000 --> 01:59:21,160
sin to air and doctrine, but it
is a sin to treat people poorly.

1850
01:59:22,760 --> 01:59:28,600
And if we want to be God's
people, we got to be like Him.

1851
01:59:30,040 --> 01:59:33,520
He has people.
I mean, I it baffles my mind.

1852
01:59:33,520 --> 01:59:38,560
I don't have the answer for it,
but how can the Lord sit by and

1853
01:59:38,560 --> 01:59:42,960
have and choose people to come
into His Kingdom that aren't

1854
01:59:42,960 --> 01:59:45,880
living the truth?
He has the accurate judgement.

1855
01:59:45,880 --> 01:59:49,000
The judge would all by but but
there are all kinds of people

1856
01:59:49,560 --> 01:59:52,720
and we may be asked to bless and
serve and help.

1857
01:59:53,600 --> 01:59:57,240
And if we take these principles
we talked about today and truly

1858
01:59:57,240 --> 02:00:03,560
apply them, we could become the
man of the West, right?

1859
02:00:03,840 --> 02:00:08,400
The I know that W is whatever it
is, but that famous prophecy,

1860
02:00:08,400 --> 02:00:11,440
whether it's true or not.
But the men of the West would

1861
02:00:11,440 --> 02:00:15,320
come down from the from the
mountains, save the Constitution

1862
02:00:15,320 --> 02:00:19,920
and save the people because of
their belief in God and because

1863
02:00:19,920 --> 02:00:23,840
of their characters, because
they stand on the principles of

1864
02:00:23,840 --> 02:00:32,560
truth, not divide over a comma,
right, You know?

1865
02:00:34,360 --> 02:00:36,040
Yeah.
And, and you hit on it, right?

1866
02:00:36,600 --> 02:00:43,840
I think, I think the adversary's
been very clever to this point

1867
02:00:44,920 --> 02:00:48,640
on keeping us divided, right?
And, and this isn't a call for

1868
02:00:48,640 --> 02:00:50,440
everyone to get united on
Sunday.

1869
02:00:50,440 --> 02:00:54,080
So that's not what what David or
myself are talking about.

1870
02:00:54,280 --> 02:00:55,960
That's.
Right.

1871
02:00:58,080 --> 02:01:05,080
But if he keeps us fighting
amongst ourselves and we can't

1872
02:01:05,080 --> 02:01:10,680
unite on anything, I think it's
a important question to be

1873
02:01:10,680 --> 02:01:13,200
asked.
What is it that the adversary

1874
02:01:13,200 --> 02:01:19,720
finds so threatening about men
being united together?

1875
02:01:23,200 --> 02:01:29,960
That has been his his operation
for a long, long, long time.

1876
02:01:30,440 --> 02:01:37,080
Just keeping fighting amongst
themselves because I think I

1877
02:01:37,080 --> 02:01:42,760
think if we could get to that
point, if we could be ADNC 88133

1878
02:01:42,760 --> 02:01:48,520
kind of people, I think the
foundations of hell would shake.

1879
02:01:49,120 --> 02:01:53,360
I do, I think, I think nothing
would be held back and I think,

1880
02:01:54,520 --> 02:01:58,480
I think we could, could Pierce
The Veil and we could, we could

1881
02:01:58,480 --> 02:02:02,360
do all sorts of things that we
read about in the Old Testament

1882
02:02:02,920 --> 02:02:06,480
or, and, and the New Testament
in those days, early days of the

1883
02:02:06,480 --> 02:02:10,560
restoration.
I think it just takes us getting

1884
02:02:10,560 --> 02:02:15,320
our hearts right and then
knitting them together to form

1885
02:02:15,320 --> 02:02:18,120
that nuclear nucleus that that
can do the job.

1886
02:02:18,840 --> 02:02:20,880
I think brotherhood is so
important in this.

1887
02:02:21,440 --> 02:02:27,000
And I, like you feel that maybe
we haven't paid enough attention

1888
02:02:27,000 --> 02:02:30,120
to that.
And certainly I, I, I want to

1889
02:02:30,120 --> 02:02:36,640
say this, I, I have made some
mistakes, some very public

1890
02:02:36,640 --> 02:02:42,160
mistakes on this podcast.
I worry that I have sown too

1891
02:02:42,160 --> 02:02:44,760
much division at times.
And it's something that I'm

1892
02:02:44,760 --> 02:02:51,000
seeking to correct quickly.
And I'll never back down from

1893
02:02:51,000 --> 02:02:54,480
the truth.
And if, if I see gross error,

1894
02:02:55,560 --> 02:02:59,640
I'll still call that out.
But certainly I can do it better

1895
02:03:00,560 --> 02:03:04,440
and certainly I can do it in a
more judicious way that seeks to

1896
02:03:04,440 --> 02:03:08,320
build rather than tear down.
And so that's, that's something

1897
02:03:08,320 --> 02:03:10,640
in my own life that I know
needs.

1898
02:03:10,640 --> 02:03:18,400
Correcting quickly one more
analogy, and just before I do,

1899
02:03:18,400 --> 02:03:22,960
just to your point there, a good
friend of mine brought out some

1900
02:03:22,960 --> 02:03:25,320
interesting ideas.
There's a difference between

1901
02:03:25,320 --> 02:03:27,920
calling people out and calling
people up.

1902
02:03:29,480 --> 02:03:34,120
And I think I think we could
focus on the latter and remember

1903
02:03:34,120 --> 02:03:38,360
why we why we're trying to
straighten people out, not just

1904
02:03:38,360 --> 02:03:40,880
to prove a right, but to get to
the truth.

1905
02:03:42,120 --> 02:03:47,440
But I want to liken ourselves in
this this analogy to remember

1906
02:03:47,440 --> 02:03:51,720
the Lord says that he uses the
vineyard quite a bit in the

1907
02:03:51,720 --> 02:03:55,320
Scriptures.
And when you look at even just

1908
02:03:55,320 --> 02:04:01,560
our people, we really are a
vineyard and the Lord has, he's

1909
02:04:01,560 --> 02:04:03,440
trying to work with us.
He's trying to help us.

1910
02:04:03,440 --> 02:04:06,520
But you know, you have this
people over in this corner and

1911
02:04:06,840 --> 02:04:10,120
well, they're producing certain
kinds of fruit and it's good to

1912
02:04:10,120 --> 02:04:12,880
the taste.
Some of it's good, some of it's

1913
02:04:12,880 --> 02:04:15,360
not so good.
And you know, we're over here

1914
02:04:15,360 --> 02:04:17,880
and some of our fruits good,
some of it's not so good.

1915
02:04:17,880 --> 02:04:20,280
And other people scattered
around.

1916
02:04:20,880 --> 02:04:23,120
The Lord is tending to his
vineyard because he knows the

1917
02:04:23,120 --> 02:04:26,160
value.
But what's going to happen in

1918
02:04:26,160 --> 02:04:30,360
that day when he decides, OK,
I've done enough, I've

1919
02:04:30,360 --> 02:04:34,480
strengthened the vines, I've
strengthened the the the roots

1920
02:04:35,120 --> 02:04:37,480
and the trees.
So now I can take and make

1921
02:04:37,480 --> 02:04:42,200
cuttings of these different
trees or different vines and

1922
02:04:42,200 --> 02:04:45,120
graft them together.
That's really what the devil

1923
02:04:45,120 --> 02:04:50,120
doesn't want is a tree that can
produce enough fruit to bless

1924
02:04:50,120 --> 02:04:55,000
the whole earth.
I'm not in a position, nor do I

1925
02:04:55,000 --> 02:05:00,360
have the authority to say that
anybody else isn't exactly where

1926
02:05:00,360 --> 02:05:03,840
the Lord wants them.
For now, I couldn't say.

1927
02:05:04,560 --> 02:05:10,040
But if there's fruits in your
life, get close to your Father

1928
02:05:10,040 --> 02:05:12,720
in heaven.
Do the work He asked you to do.

1929
02:05:13,200 --> 02:05:17,040
Learn the principles contained
in the Scriptures.

1930
02:05:17,040 --> 02:05:20,840
All these things, the things you
go over, the things everybody

1931
02:05:20,840 --> 02:05:24,240
goes over every Sunday, hate
those principles in the

1932
02:05:24,240 --> 02:05:28,960
commandments of God, apply them
into your life, treat people

1933
02:05:28,960 --> 02:05:33,320
like brethren.
And we will start to see changes

1934
02:05:33,320 --> 02:05:37,120
within ourselves.
And the Lord may just say it is

1935
02:05:37,120 --> 02:05:42,120
time and he may begin to graft,
even if it's just those who will

1936
02:05:42,720 --> 02:05:47,600
begin to graft people together
so that he could do His great

1937
02:05:47,600 --> 02:05:50,720
plan.
Because He said He'll do

1938
02:05:50,720 --> 02:05:52,240
everything he can for His
children.

1939
02:05:53,320 --> 02:05:56,240
And that's His glory, right?
To bring to pass the immortality

1940
02:05:56,240 --> 02:05:57,640
and eternal lives of his
children.

1941
02:05:58,000 --> 02:06:00,840
But at the end, there's really a
great battle that's going on.

1942
02:06:02,120 --> 02:06:06,680
And it's said that he will win.
And if we are not the people to

1943
02:06:06,680 --> 02:06:09,360
do it, hopefully there's another
people that will.

1944
02:06:10,280 --> 02:06:13,320
But we have a chance today, so
let's do our best.

1945
02:06:15,000 --> 02:06:18,840
Good stuff.
So, Dave, I, I really do

1946
02:06:18,840 --> 02:06:22,040
appreciate all of our, our
conversations that we have.

1947
02:06:22,800 --> 02:06:25,680
I really do.
Is there anything else you

1948
02:06:25,680 --> 02:06:27,440
wanted to go over before we wrap
this up?

1949
02:06:28,080 --> 02:06:30,400
I think we've done it.
I have no idea how long we've

1950
02:06:30,400 --> 02:06:34,640
been going, but I know that we
we've gone through it also.

1951
02:06:35,760 --> 02:06:39,720
About two hours, not bad.
So dude, I, I appreciate you.

1952
02:06:39,720 --> 02:06:41,480
I, I love you.
I appreciate everything you

1953
02:06:41,480 --> 02:06:43,400
bring to the table.
I really do.

1954
02:06:43,400 --> 02:06:46,160
You, you, you're a good man.
And I, I'm just happy to

1955
02:06:46,160 --> 02:06:48,320
associate with you whenever and
wherever I can.

1956
02:06:48,720 --> 02:06:51,600
If there was one bummer moment
from my trip in Philly, it's

1957
02:06:51,600 --> 02:06:54,200
that when you called me and
said, hey, I'm in Missouri, I'm

1958
02:06:54,200 --> 02:06:58,400
like, so.
But you'll be coming out soon

1959
02:06:58,400 --> 02:06:59,360
enough.
Again, we'll have to get

1960
02:06:59,360 --> 02:07:01,360
together.
Yep, I'll be coming out in a

1961
02:07:01,360 --> 02:07:03,320
couple weeks so.
Awesome.

1962
02:07:03,960 --> 02:07:06,960
All right, Dave, thank you.
Hang around for 5 minutes.

1963
02:07:07,120 --> 02:07:39,920
Bye everybody.
You're listening to the Mormon

1964
02:07:39,920 --> 02:07:41,360
Renegade podcast.