Episode#34: Joseph Smith's Last Charge & The Transfiguration Of Brigham Young W/Drew Briney

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In Mormon history.
There are a few events that are

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watershed moments that shaped
the future of Mormonism for

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Generations.
A couple of those events are

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Joseph, Smith's last charge and
Brigham Young's Transfiguration

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after the martyrdom of the
Prophet Joseph Smith to better

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understand those events.
I have a man on the podcast,

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that certainly needs no
introduction in Mormon

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fundamentalist circles.
He is a former attorney and

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author of many books.
Both scholarly in nature as well

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as fiction, his name, Drew
grinding on this episode.

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We've Downed trees, back story a
little bit.

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And then dive into Joseph,
Smith's last charge and Brigham

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Young's Transfiguration, the
historical findings that Drew

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has discovered are really quite
groundbreaking and shed new

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light on these events.
That I think most of us haven't

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even considered.
That's next on this episode of

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the Mormon Renegade podcast.
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Your listing to the Mormon
Renegade podcast.

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Welcome back to the Mormon
Renegade podcast as always you

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can get ahold of me either by
email at Mormon Renegade at

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Mormon Renegade.
Also we have a website up and

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that's Mormon Renegade.com so go
check that out.

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Well Drew man, we tried for a
while and it was kind of Hit and

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Miss but you're here now and
Glad you're that, that yar.

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Yeah, thanks.
I'm glad to finally get around.

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I'm sorry.
My schedules been so awful.

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No, man.
It's all good, that I think

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that's just life these days.
I often dream about slowing down

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and it never really pans out the
way I'd hoped.

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So I gave up trying to even
comprehend what that is, I know

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if I was smart, I would do the
same but not, I haven't mastered

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that yet.
I always feel like I have things

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planned out and somehow the less
I plan, the better things seem

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to work, but So anyway again,
thanks for being here, man.

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I've looked forward to talking
to you for a while.

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There's certain people within
fundamentalism.

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I feel like they're just their
name, brings a certain amount of

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recognition and a little bit of
veritas if you will or

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authenticity.
And I definitely think you're

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one of those guys.
So again, I'm just super excited

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to talk to you.
Thanks, I appreciate that.

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So, did you did you start out?
Mormon, were you born into like

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a Mormon family?
No, I grew up in a, in a town

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that was there's a church on
every corner, but it was all

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Christian and anti-mormon, if
anything and extremely violence.

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Hometown, and I didn't really
have any concept of religion

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other than Some kids went to
church and my my friends and

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family didn't it was until I got
to high school that I started

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looking around and saying most
everybody I know in my extended

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family spent time in jail and
doing drugs and alcohol liquor a

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drug addict or something and
most of my peers had similar

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problems and I just looked
around and said I don't want to

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live my life like this.
You know, I mean, I was probably

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14 when I first started,
introspecting heavily that way.

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By the time I was 16, 17, I was
actively searching for a church

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that I could felt good.
And, and yeah, my dad, when he

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found out, I'd gone to church.
He would ground me and, and make

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me spend the whole day.
Weeding the garden.

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So.
Oh, wow, people opposite of a

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religious family.
I got Before going to church and

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then I don't know if this is too
much too much information but I

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went to a band party one day and
I played saxophone and jazz band

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in a normal band and we went to
this band party and and the

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family who is hosting it from my
perspective was super rich and I

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went to their house and in a I
felt really out of place.

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It was just very strange but I
felt the spirit Thayer.

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And I didn't know that I just
like, right?

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Wow, this I feel something here.
And I was, I felt awkward

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socially.
So I kind of went to the edge of

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the yard to get away from
everybody and two sisters, that

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lived there were hiding from
everybody and talking, and as,

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like the siblings like each
other, I'd never heard of

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siblings liking each other
before, it was just shocked him.

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And soon after that, I, somebody
said go.

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So, I can get a drink.
So I went inside to get a drink

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and nobody was there, except for
the husband and wife, and the

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husband was helping the wife
with a dishes, doing something

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nice for her, and nobody was
around.

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And I was like he like loves his
wife.

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Like I've never seen that.
He they're not faking it, they

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don't know.
I'm here there.

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You know, I've never even seen a
couple really.

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Truly love each other and take
care of each other before.

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And and so So I said to the
girl, I said, would you be

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offended if I went to your
church and being a faithful

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Latter-Day, think she'd beamed
and was like sure.

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So, I ended up spinning a long
time.

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Having missionary discussions, I
acted there were six missionary

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discussions and you're supposed
to do one per hour and I did

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Then in each of those
discussions had about six parts,

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each I did one of those parts in
about four hours and so I just

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grilled the missionaries turns
with lots of questions, rather,

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lots of anti-mormon stuff to try
and get a good balance

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perspective, you know, that sort
of thing.

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And sadly, the missionary one of
the main missionaries who taught

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me in a dip, apostatize me
because I pushed him with too

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many deep questions.
So so I still feel badly about

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it.
I know it's not exactly my

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fault.
I was just, you know, it's just

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a kid but I was reading
everything.

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I could get my hands on.
I want, I was so thirsty for the

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gospel and I just want to know
everything and Pat answers did

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not satisfy my curiosity, you
know.

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So yeah, I guess that's kind of
the short version or long

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version.
I don't know what that is but

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that's I am a great version.
So I went from there to a

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Presbyterian College, was the
only Mormon on campus and got

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grilled.
A lot went on a mission, went to

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BYU, got married and didn't
accidentally discovered

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fundamentalism.
So the first part of your story

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is gosh it reminds me of my
story so much.

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I wasn't nearly as willing to
become a Mormon upfront.

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In fact, even after I prayed
about it and learn that it was

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true, I felt like I had an out
and I was like yeah I still got,

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you know, I still got this but
unfortunately the missionaries I

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think we're or fortunately, I
should say we're in tune with

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the spirit and because when I
took the discussions I said No

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One's Gonna ask me at all to be
baptized.

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Let's get that out of the way
right now right?

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You asked me a jump.
In the in the pool or whatever.

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Hit the bricks I'm done.
And I was I was reticent like

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that too, actually.
But yeah, yeah, I was very

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hesitant.
But looking for a church at a

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young age, I can identify with
that.

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So my own man, and I was very
blessed in this, in this regard,

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is that my dad was in a lot of
ways.

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My best friend growing up, he
was just an excellent father and

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he passed away when I was 13.
And I remember there, Was and I

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won't say what, what church he
was from, but it was an

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Evangelical Church.
And I remember, I asked that

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Pastor that not the night.
He died.

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I said what happened to my dad?
He said, well, you know, unless

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he professed his faith in Jesus
Christ shortly before he died,

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he's lost now, I had no real
inkling of God, but I knew that

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if God was just in loving, like
they said, he was that made no

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sense.
Yeah.

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And so that got me started, so I
can definitely identify with

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with the idea of looking and
trying to find something that

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felt right?
So, yeah, yeah, I can totally

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identify so how did you How did
you find fundamentalism?

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So, I said it was by accident,
but it kind of wasn't my first

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year that I joined the church.
I read the standard works.

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I read Jesus.
The Christ marvelous work and a

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Wonder articles of Faith than
but the big fat version right

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and about a dozen Total Works
including editors Heim and for

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our Jesus Christ and you know,
these Messiah was gargantuan

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Right?
As I was reading crap like that.

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Well, I shouldn't say crap it.
I knew she loved like that.

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You're good.
Um, I just wanted to know

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everything.
There was snow and I continued

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that on my mission.
I was nicknamed Elder McConkey,

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by a number of the elders,
because it's a, Well, he knows

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everything.
He studies all that stuff, you

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know, I even got special
permission to keep a couple

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books because I read extra
cross-reference.

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So, when I got home, You know, I
mean when I was on my mission is

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pretty new to Mormonism.
So I felt like I was just kind

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of catching up, you know, anyone
I realized I wasn't but I still

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want to know everything there
was to know.

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And and so I started praying and
just saying, God, there's got to

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be more to your gospel penis.
I feel like every general

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conference is the same thing
I've heard forever.

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And every you know, I'm like
okay we're talking about the

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Sabbath, get your list out what
you can and can't do.

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That's the lesson.
We're not going to talk about

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anything else.
You know.

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We can't talk about the purpose.
So we can't talk about good

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Traditions or something's got to
do that list.

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You know, what can I do on the
Sabbath?

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I was just some just got to be
more, your gospel, what is it?

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And I prayed and prayed and
prayed and and I searched, I

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really couldn't find a whole
lot.

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I did in my senior year of
college, I finally found some

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stuff that nib.
Lee had referenced in some 70

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1970s in sign articles or Adam.
It was intense.

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I'm anyways about the Book of
Enoch and in The Book of Enoch,

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he in his article about the Book
of Enoch, you nibbly, said, and

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Lucifer, suffered the threefold
ritual reversal of the endowment

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and I was like, wow, that sounds
awesome.

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I want to know more about that.
Any reference, some materials

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that I couldn't find anywhere.
I looked everywhere for these

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books and one day I was walking
through church archives.

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I was doing some genealogy stuff
as taking genealogy course I was

223
00:13:49,400 --> 00:13:51,900
doing something.
I don't remember what it was as

224
00:13:51,900 --> 00:13:54,700
walking by this bookshelf and I
just felt drawn.

225
00:13:54,700 --> 00:13:58,100
Like, I literally felt like
there's this magnet.

226
00:13:58,100 --> 00:14:02,300
I just reached up on the Shelf,
without even looking at it, and

227
00:14:02,300 --> 00:14:04,700
grab the first book when I
looked To see what it was.

228
00:14:04,700 --> 00:14:05,800
Grab the first book and pull it
down.

229
00:14:05,800 --> 00:14:07,700
It's called the company book of
Martyrs.

230
00:14:08,200 --> 00:14:10,300
Okay?
That sounds awesome.

231
00:14:10,800 --> 00:14:14,600
I don't know what this is at any
rate.

232
00:14:14,600 --> 00:14:17,100
I opened it up.
I had no idea what it was.

233
00:14:17,600 --> 00:14:21,400
I just felt powerfully drawn to
this book and I pulled it down

234
00:14:21,600 --> 00:14:24,500
and I opened it up in one of the
things listed on it was the

235
00:14:24,500 --> 00:14:31,100
discourse of the Habit on And I
recognize that this was the book

236
00:14:31,100 --> 00:14:34,800
that was referred to, and by
Hyuna Hyuna blame, his 1970, in

237
00:14:34,800 --> 00:14:38,400
sign or whatever it was a
magazine article.

238
00:14:39,700 --> 00:14:44,800
And I was super excited about it
so I can copied it word for word

239
00:14:44,800 --> 00:14:47,200
and special collections because
it would let you copy it.

240
00:14:47,800 --> 00:14:51,500
And then like the next week
after I typed everything up, all

241
00:14:51,500 --> 00:14:54,000
my notes and formatted it made
it all myself, I found it on the

242
00:14:54,000 --> 00:14:56,500
internet then like barely had
got published like the The day

243
00:14:56,500 --> 00:15:03,800
after I finished doing it
myself, but in the process, I

244
00:15:03,800 --> 00:15:07,000
discovered another book called
The Apocalypse of Moses.

245
00:15:08,300 --> 00:15:15,500
And that book basically is the
story of Adam and Eve As Told

246
00:15:15,500 --> 00:15:17,500
from a restoration as
perspective.

247
00:15:17,500 --> 00:15:23,100
It's no longer just, here's the
Genesis account, it's got them

248
00:15:23,100 --> 00:15:26,100
praying with arms raised, its
got them doing signs and tokens.

249
00:15:26,100 --> 00:15:30,100
It's Prayer Circles of several
versions of it.

250
00:15:31,100 --> 00:15:33,700
I ended up doing my senior
thesis on it because I was like,

251
00:15:33,700 --> 00:15:36,900
this is like lost stuff.
Joseph had no access to, and

252
00:15:36,900 --> 00:15:39,100
it's the temple.
And down, this is like insane.

253
00:15:39,100 --> 00:15:43,900
That's super cool in the
discourse on a baton did the

254
00:15:43,900 --> 00:15:47,300
saying some of the same stuff
and so did the fall of the

255
00:15:47,300 --> 00:15:51,000
Archangel Michael and some other
stuff that I found.

256
00:15:51,000 --> 00:15:56,400
So I started researching some of
these ancient documents And but

257
00:15:56,400 --> 00:15:58,500
I'm still praying, there's more
to your gospel.

258
00:15:58,500 --> 00:16:01,800
What is it?
You know, and, and so that was

259
00:16:01,800 --> 00:16:08,100
part of it and I went to church
one day and some Elder said What

260
00:16:08,100 --> 00:16:10,300
do you think the order of the
resurrectionists?

261
00:16:10,400 --> 00:16:12,900
I mean, if God's got to order,
it seems like there would be

262
00:16:12,900 --> 00:16:15,900
like, you know, this is how it's
done.

263
00:16:16,900 --> 00:16:20,600
And I said I just got this book,
called discourses of Brigham

264
00:16:20,600 --> 00:16:23,700
Young somebody gave it to me.
I don't remember where I got it

265
00:16:24,800 --> 00:16:28,300
and Brigham teaches the order of
it and it makes so much sense

266
00:16:28,300 --> 00:16:31,600
and it was really inspiring to
me and so I shared what Brigham

267
00:16:31,600 --> 00:16:33,600
said and I had it in my hands,
you know?

268
00:16:34,500 --> 00:16:38,300
And thus, the Sunday school
teacher looked at me.

269
00:16:39,100 --> 00:16:40,500
And he said, we don't need to
debate.

270
00:16:40,500 --> 00:16:42,400
How many angels fit on the head
of a pin.

271
00:16:43,700 --> 00:16:48,100
That's like, this is the gospel.
This is a profit teaching about

272
00:16:48,100 --> 00:16:53,400
the gospel and you're dismissing
it in this insulting way.

273
00:16:54,100 --> 00:16:57,600
I was shocked.
So, the next week, I don't

274
00:16:57,600 --> 00:17:00,700
remember what the topic is.
But somebody said something in

275
00:17:00,700 --> 00:17:04,400
the elders Quorum, and as I go,
I just wanted in the discourses

276
00:17:04,400 --> 00:17:07,300
of Brigham Young.
And so, I started answering it

277
00:17:07,900 --> 00:17:12,099
and this high priest whose it
very well intentioned.

278
00:17:12,099 --> 00:17:16,300
I'm sure he turns over we looked
at me and he said, Elder, if you

279
00:17:16,300 --> 00:17:20,700
continue to study that stuff
you're going to apostatize And I

280
00:17:20,700 --> 00:17:24,599
thought, how and Hades name am I
going to apostatize dead?

281
00:17:24,599 --> 00:17:28,000
In the words of the Prophet.
This makes no sense to me.

282
00:17:28,500 --> 00:17:33,100
I had no place to put that.
I was like, this is insane.

283
00:17:35,700 --> 00:17:42,400
So at any rate, I just continued
with this prayer, my heart say,

284
00:17:42,400 --> 00:17:45,200
I want to know all trees.
Where's the rest of you guys?

285
00:17:45,200 --> 00:17:49,000
But I don't know where it is.
And I was teaching philosophy at

286
00:17:49,000 --> 00:17:51,500
UBS see, which is now you bu.
But was you?

287
00:17:51,500 --> 00:17:54,900
Yes, it's time.
And there's this young girl in

288
00:17:54,900 --> 00:17:58,200
my class and she came to me one
day after class.

289
00:17:58,700 --> 00:18:01,300
And well several days after
Classic it came to actually.

290
00:18:01,300 --> 00:18:05,000
She said I'm LDS but not LDS.
Do you know what I mean?

291
00:18:06,300 --> 00:18:11,400
I'm like I think I told her
because I was you know we were

292
00:18:11,408 --> 00:18:13,200
on a chummy basis at that point
in time.

293
00:18:13,200 --> 00:18:17,400
I said I've got a degree in
logic that does not Compute.

294
00:18:17,900 --> 00:18:19,500
Right?
I don't have any idea what you

295
00:18:19,500 --> 00:18:24,900
mean it and she says, well, I'm
fundamental.

296
00:18:24,900 --> 00:18:26,500
I know she said I'm a
polygamist.

297
00:18:26,700 --> 00:18:30,700
I said, oh, you like, I didn't
know there was such a thing

298
00:18:30,700 --> 00:18:32,900
today.
I thought the ended like 1890,

299
00:18:32,900 --> 00:18:35,100
you know?
I mean that's what what, what

300
00:18:35,100 --> 00:18:37,900
year would this have been about
Drew Wu?

301
00:18:39,300 --> 00:18:50,700
Dang, I was lost School.
I graduated in 2000, 2000 2001

302
00:18:50,700 --> 00:18:56,500
may be okay, I'm not some,
something like that and at any

303
00:18:56,500 --> 00:19:00,000
rate, we've added up talking and
I said, well, what else do you

304
00:19:00,000 --> 00:19:00,700
guys?
Believe it?

305
00:19:00,700 --> 00:19:04,000
She says, Adam God teachings.
And I said well, the brother and

306
00:19:04,000 --> 00:19:07,500
didn't teach that, you know,
that was just misquoted and and

307
00:19:07,500 --> 00:19:09,300
she says, I don't know.
I just know, we believe it.

308
00:19:09,900 --> 00:19:13,600
And so anyway, I told my
father-in-law about it.

309
00:19:14,300 --> 00:19:18,000
And and I said, you know, you'll
never guess what I meant.

310
00:19:21,600 --> 00:19:24,400
I didn't know there were these
polygamists and stuff in and she

311
00:19:24,400 --> 00:19:25,900
says, they believe in a god
teaches.

312
00:19:25,900 --> 00:19:28,700
He says, well Drew, you know, I
think bringing my to top that

313
00:19:29,800 --> 00:19:32,100
and I said, no, I've read
everything.

314
00:19:32,100 --> 00:19:34,800
The president of said, Marquis
Peterson McConkey, and I'd read

315
00:19:34,800 --> 00:19:36,700
all the video.
Clearly, he didn't teach it.

316
00:19:37,400 --> 00:19:39,500
He said Drew, I've got this book
by Greg.

317
00:19:39,500 --> 00:19:44,700
Took Craig Dolson.
Maybe give it a look, give a

318
00:19:44,708 --> 00:19:47,700
look at it and I never finished
reading it, but me you probably

319
00:19:47,700 --> 00:19:49,400
get through it.
So let me know what you think

320
00:19:49,900 --> 00:19:52,700
and I said, alright.
So I've got this book Mike,

321
00:19:52,700 --> 00:19:56,000
right?
Those it's I don't remember what

322
00:19:56,000 --> 00:19:59,900
he calls, it Adam God something,
have you read that book?

323
00:19:59,900 --> 00:20:04,100
By the way, I have not, I
personally don't recommend it.

324
00:20:04,600 --> 00:20:08,800
I might change my perspective
now, but when I read that then I

325
00:20:08,808 --> 00:20:11,600
just felt like it was just
bashing the church. 90% of the

326
00:20:11,608 --> 00:20:14,700
time, quote, brig, Bastard.
Quote, bringing back at you.

327
00:20:15,300 --> 00:20:20,500
I did not like the attitude and
so, when I was having a hard

328
00:20:20,500 --> 00:20:23,800
time with it, I'm like, I feel
like I'm feeling the spirit when

329
00:20:23,800 --> 00:20:27,500
I read Brigham and I lose the
spirit when I regret the Olson,

330
00:20:28,000 --> 00:20:29,700
right?
So no offense.

331
00:20:29,700 --> 00:20:31,800
The Folsom that's that was
that's my experience.

332
00:20:31,800 --> 00:20:35,800
And so I quit reading his
commentary, only read what bring

333
00:20:35,800 --> 00:20:37,700
him said from the for the rest
of the book.

334
00:20:39,200 --> 00:20:42,300
And as I did, I got toward the
very end.

335
00:20:43,400 --> 00:20:44,900
I'm sorry if this is kind of
long winded.

336
00:20:44,900 --> 00:20:46,600
No, that's my, that's my
weakness.

337
00:20:46,600 --> 00:20:49,000
And who I am?
I'm long-winded we got all the

338
00:20:49,000 --> 00:20:55,700
time in the world here so I so
I'm reading this book and I'm

339
00:20:55,700 --> 00:20:59,100
starting to believe that Brigham
really did teach this and that

340
00:20:59,100 --> 00:21:04,400
this is actually Doctrine and
not just speculation and and I'm

341
00:21:04,400 --> 00:21:06,500
talking to my wife about it,
she's getting panicky.

342
00:21:07,300 --> 00:21:13,800
Sure, and so I prayed really
intently And I said, Heavenly

343
00:21:13,800 --> 00:21:17,200
Father.
I don't care what street.

344
00:21:17,600 --> 00:21:22,400
I just want to know what is true
and I'm studying something that

345
00:21:22,400 --> 00:21:24,700
people are telling me is the
seven, deadly heresies.

346
00:21:24,800 --> 00:21:26,100
You're one of the seven, deadly
Hunters.

347
00:21:26,100 --> 00:21:32,000
He's and But when I read
Brigham's words and he was the

348
00:21:32,000 --> 00:21:34,900
Kimble's words and Dad, I am
grants words on this.

349
00:21:35,300 --> 00:21:39,300
I'm feeling like the same as
when I was dying.

350
00:21:39,300 --> 00:21:42,300
The gospel, get baptized.
This is like the same Spirit

351
00:21:42,300 --> 00:21:45,800
here.
If I'm being deceived, I need

352
00:21:45,800 --> 00:21:50,300
you to let me know in a big way,
you know, because I don't, I'm

353
00:21:50,300 --> 00:21:52,900
not studying this because I want
it to be true.

354
00:21:53,300 --> 00:21:56,400
I just want to know if it is
true and I want you to let me

355
00:21:56,400 --> 00:22:00,700
know if it is true, make it
clear to And if it's not help me

356
00:22:00,700 --> 00:22:03,200
know, so I can help people not
be deceived.

357
00:22:03,500 --> 00:22:06,400
That was my prayer.
I had no intentions of writing a

358
00:22:06,400 --> 00:22:07,700
book.
No.

359
00:22:07,700 --> 00:22:09,200
Thoughts about these types of
things.

360
00:22:09,200 --> 00:22:12,500
I'm just, you know, the very
beginning stages of, you know,

361
00:22:12,900 --> 00:22:17,200
studying this Doctrine.
So I got to the last several

362
00:22:17,200 --> 00:22:18,700
Pages.
Before I said this prayer, I

363
00:22:18,700 --> 00:22:21,500
couldn't sleep.
I got up to read in, my wife was

364
00:22:21,500 --> 00:22:26,600
asleep and so I was reading by
the bedside and I had this

365
00:22:26,600 --> 00:22:30,800
little desk there and And and I
didn't realize that time is

366
00:22:30,800 --> 00:22:34,400
October, 1854 discourse.
I didn't know that was a big

367
00:22:34,400 --> 00:22:36,500
deal or important or anything.
I was just reading.

368
00:22:37,700 --> 00:22:43,100
So, I was reading this discourse
and I had that peculiar

369
00:22:43,100 --> 00:22:45,300
experience for me.
I've never had another one like

370
00:22:45,300 --> 00:22:50,900
it, but when I turned the page,
I felt an increase in spirit and

371
00:22:50,900 --> 00:22:54,300
I noticed right away, I was
like, I'm getting excited, you

372
00:22:54,300 --> 00:22:56,500
know?
And I don't remember how many

373
00:22:56,500 --> 00:23:01,000
pages it was, but everyone was
this Elevated amount of the

374
00:23:01,000 --> 00:23:03,800
spirit and I paused, I said
heavenly father.

375
00:23:04,200 --> 00:23:07,200
If I'm being deceased being
deceived in, you're trying to

376
00:23:07,200 --> 00:23:09,700
tell me you're not doing a very
good job, right?

377
00:23:09,700 --> 00:23:13,300
Because I was expecting him to
say, this is where it's all been

378
00:23:13,300 --> 00:23:15,600
misunderstood.
I was expecting him to say it's

379
00:23:15,600 --> 00:23:20,300
not true, you know, that and I
just that's I mean the church.

380
00:23:20,300 --> 00:23:21,600
That's what I'm expecting, you
know?

381
00:23:22,400 --> 00:23:25,900
And so I said it like that.
I said I did a pretty good job

382
00:23:25,900 --> 00:23:28,400
if you're trying to keep me away
from this.

383
00:23:29,800 --> 00:23:32,100
And I just felt more and more
the spirit and by the time I

384
00:23:32,100 --> 00:23:37,000
turned that final page it was
just overwhelming to me and I

385
00:23:37,000 --> 00:23:40,600
knew it was true.
And I didn't know what to do

386
00:23:40,600 --> 00:23:44,100
about it.
And so I went in the other room

387
00:23:44,100 --> 00:23:48,500
have two toddlers at time and I
dep now down at side of their

388
00:23:48,500 --> 00:23:53,200
bed and I had to that time the
most sacred prayer I ever had.

389
00:23:54,500 --> 00:24:00,700
And I had no question.
Adam got teaching you a true I

390
00:24:00,700 --> 00:24:04,400
sat there while milk.
There they start now because I

391
00:24:04,408 --> 00:24:08,200
can't deal anymore because it
seemed like injuries, but I

392
00:24:08,200 --> 00:24:15,600
knelt there in had a an open Q&A
for hours and and just was

393
00:24:15,600 --> 00:24:21,100
overwhelmed.
And then I said, what next And,

394
00:24:22,400 --> 00:24:27,000
you know, I obviously there are
challenges with marriage

395
00:24:27,000 --> 00:24:30,700
discussions and, and the next
thing was studying plural

396
00:24:30,700 --> 00:24:33,000
marriage because my student who
taught me about Adam, got

397
00:24:33,000 --> 00:24:34,800
teaching.
The first place, wanted to write

398
00:24:34,800 --> 00:24:40,000
a paper on the 1886, Revelation
in the Lord, see Willie story

399
00:24:40,800 --> 00:24:46,300
and I it didn't really fit my
class but I could tell for her,

400
00:24:46,300 --> 00:24:48,500
it was a more of an ethical
issue.

401
00:24:48,800 --> 00:24:52,900
She was trying to Stand.
So I said give me some materials

402
00:24:52,900 --> 00:24:55,600
I'll read up on it because I
want to know more than you know

403
00:24:55,700 --> 00:25:01,400
whenever I grade your paper
that's only fair and and and so

404
00:25:01,400 --> 00:25:06,900
I did and then that got me
moving on further and and so

405
00:25:06,900 --> 00:25:10,100
after after that I wanted to
know everything there was to

406
00:25:10,100 --> 00:25:12,700
know about and God teaches.
So I bought every bucket book,

407
00:25:12,800 --> 00:25:15,300
Koli christensen's.
Adam God made his master's book.

408
00:25:15,400 --> 00:25:19,200
Crowds book, basically,
kristensen.

409
00:25:19,600 --> 00:25:23,500
Craig Wilson's book, I already
read, there were a bunch of

410
00:25:23,600 --> 00:25:29,700
Articles and in dialogue, you
know, accounts and that sort of

411
00:25:29,700 --> 00:25:32,800
stuff.
And so I got them all, and as I

412
00:25:32,808 --> 00:25:35,500
was reading him, I was so
annoyed.

413
00:25:36,100 --> 00:25:38,700
I was super annoyed.
I was like all of these have

414
00:25:38,700 --> 00:25:43,500
these strong biases to them.
And frankly, the fundamentalist

415
00:25:43,500 --> 00:25:48,100
ones would be have all these
brackets and these all capital

416
00:25:48,100 --> 00:25:52,100
letters and emphasis.
On every level and I just was

417
00:25:52,100 --> 00:25:54,100
like, can we just get rid of all
that cry?

418
00:25:54,100 --> 00:25:55,700
Just want to know what Brigham
said.

419
00:25:55,700 --> 00:25:58,200
I want to know what Heber C.
Kimball said, I don't care.

420
00:25:58,500 --> 00:26:01,800
You know, Adam brackets who is
God the Eternal Father Jehovah,

421
00:26:01,800 --> 00:26:03,800
and your diploma and in
Brackets.

422
00:26:03,800 --> 00:26:05,200
And then you know, something
else.

423
00:26:05,200 --> 00:26:08,700
And I'm like what would it bring
himself to look like back here

424
00:26:08,700 --> 00:26:11,200
and put it together and read it
without the brackets?

425
00:26:11,600 --> 00:26:15,000
I was just super annoyed and in
the scholars would be kind of

426
00:26:15,008 --> 00:26:17,500
the opposite.
Like well, the bring Adams got

427
00:26:17,500 --> 00:26:21,300
Theory and you know, some people
I think he modified his views

428
00:26:21,300 --> 00:26:24,800
because of this and there's all
these speculative things and

429
00:26:24,800 --> 00:26:28,900
very little documentation that
actually was in context.

430
00:26:29,400 --> 00:26:31,700
And I was like, this is crap,
too.

431
00:26:32,600 --> 00:26:38,000
And so, I said, I wish someone
would just write a book that all

432
00:26:38,000 --> 00:26:41,500
the quotes without all the
commentary and I could just know

433
00:26:41,500 --> 00:26:45,500
what the prophet said.
And in the instant I thought

434
00:26:45,500 --> 00:26:49,900
that I remembered a quote by
c.s., Lewis c.s.

435
00:26:49,900 --> 00:26:54,000
Lewis said I write books that I
want to read, but no one's

436
00:26:54,000 --> 00:26:57,800
written yet.
And and I was like oh crap I'm

437
00:26:57,800 --> 00:27:01,700
not writing that book.
If I write that I'm going to get

438
00:27:01,700 --> 00:27:05,200
excommunicated and you know and
I thought well maybe it can

439
00:27:05,200 --> 00:27:07,800
write it under a pen name and I
thought no because if I write it

440
00:27:07,800 --> 00:27:11,900
down, her pen name, people will
discount it because I wasn't

441
00:27:11,900 --> 00:27:14,500
willing to stand by it, but I
didn't want to get

442
00:27:14,500 --> 00:27:18,800
excommunicated either.
So I just said, I'm writing a

443
00:27:18,800 --> 00:27:23,700
book, it's going to be all all
original spellings, it's going

444
00:27:23,700 --> 00:27:25,700
to be original sources, it's
going to be heavily.

445
00:27:26,000 --> 00:27:27,800
Tainted.
And it's just going to be one

446
00:27:27,800 --> 00:27:31,500
quote after another, it's going
to be chronological so nobody

447
00:27:31,500 --> 00:27:35,300
can accuse me of bias.
And I'm just going to let the

448
00:27:35,300 --> 00:27:37,500
president speak for themselves
and I'll do a commentary at the

449
00:27:37,500 --> 00:27:40,500
end of each one for anything
that's not clear.

450
00:27:40,600 --> 00:27:43,900
In the more I studied more, I
compiled, the less I felt the

451
00:27:43,900 --> 00:27:50,600
need to expand because it was so
clear already right at any rate.

452
00:27:52,700 --> 00:27:56,200
I didn't get a text for writing
that book but I sort of.

453
00:27:56,200 --> 00:28:03,200
Did you got put on a watch list?
Well, what happened was?

454
00:28:05,000 --> 00:28:08,000
The bishop came out.
Well, I had a sister in law

455
00:28:09,000 --> 00:28:10,900
would be sister-in-law, who was
worried.

456
00:28:10,900 --> 00:28:14,100
I was going to show up at the
temple with all these apostate

457
00:28:14,100 --> 00:28:15,900
thoughts.
You know, participate

458
00:28:16,000 --> 00:28:18,600
participating in the
fundamentalist Church, didn't

459
00:28:18,600 --> 00:28:22,200
want me at her Temple wedding.
Forget that forget that the

460
00:28:22,200 --> 00:28:26,000
endowment is just still riddled
to this day with Adam God.

461
00:28:27,200 --> 00:28:30,000
If you know what you're looking
at, you get it.

462
00:28:30,200 --> 00:28:36,100
Yeah, well and forget just
talking And say, hey, I know you

463
00:28:36,100 --> 00:28:37,300
attend apostate.
Churches.

464
00:28:37,300 --> 00:28:39,800
Sometimes could, would you, are
you cool.

465
00:28:39,800 --> 00:28:41,800
Not showing up at the wedding,
you know?

466
00:28:41,800 --> 00:28:44,600
I would have said, yeah, I
actually don't have a recommend

467
00:28:44,600 --> 00:28:47,700
anymore because I didn't feel
comfortable with questions.

468
00:28:48,900 --> 00:28:51,800
I'm not going to go, you know,
I'll sit in the lobby you know

469
00:28:51,800 --> 00:28:54,700
it would have been fine but she
panicked about it and so she

470
00:28:54,700 --> 00:28:57,800
called the bishop and he showed
up at the doorstep and started

471
00:28:57,800 --> 00:29:01,600
asking questions and in the
process of asking questions, I

472
00:29:01,608 --> 00:29:04,300
gave him a copy that and God
book he actually bought it.

473
00:29:04,300 --> 00:29:09,000
I Think, I think he bought it.
If I think he paid for it later

474
00:29:09,000 --> 00:29:12,100
or something at any rate, he
passed it on to the stake.

475
00:29:12,100 --> 00:29:15,600
President to get me in trouble,
but then gave me really nice

476
00:29:15,600 --> 00:29:21,900
review of the book, so it was
kind of confusing to me in the

477
00:29:21,908 --> 00:29:23,100
stake.
President brought me in and

478
00:29:23,108 --> 00:29:27,800
said, hey Drew, you know, I
don't even know what Adam got

479
00:29:27,800 --> 00:29:31,100
thing is.
Could you tell me so I told him

480
00:29:31,900 --> 00:29:36,800
and I said, you know, this Most
truly out of God book you'll

481
00:29:36,800 --> 00:29:39,700
find like there's nothing out
there that's going to be as

482
00:29:39,700 --> 00:29:43,800
chill toward the church's.
This yeah it's really easy to

483
00:29:43,800 --> 00:29:46,600
try and make the church look bad
but I don't I don't go there,

484
00:29:46,900 --> 00:29:49,600
you know, I mean I did psyched
McConkey twice in the footnotes

485
00:29:49,600 --> 00:29:54,700
because I couldn't help it, you
know, because he says, you know,

486
00:29:55,100 --> 00:29:57,800
Brigham never taught this.
And he clearly teaches that

487
00:29:57,800 --> 00:30:03,100
exact thing in that in that.
So I footnote it, you know, but

488
00:30:03,100 --> 00:30:06,500
I try really hard to be Thankful
to the Brethren because I

489
00:30:06,500 --> 00:30:08,800
support them and not teaching it
at some level.

490
00:30:10,700 --> 00:30:15,200
And, and, and I'll just throw a
little sidebar there in Mark

491
00:30:15,200 --> 00:30:18,900
chapter 10.
I think it's Pharisees and

492
00:30:18,900 --> 00:30:23,600
Sadducees come to Jesus to my
say, hey Moses taught that men

493
00:30:23,600 --> 00:30:25,300
could get a divorce.
What do you say?

494
00:30:25,900 --> 00:30:29,500
And we all know that this is a
trick question and Jesus sites

495
00:30:29,500 --> 00:30:33,400
Genesis, which by the way, is,
is a rabbinical way of trimming

496
00:30:33,400 --> 00:30:36,300
there are core argument.
Earlier the scripture shows up

497
00:30:36,300 --> 00:30:40,600
in the in the in the pentateuch
the more powerful the argument

498
00:30:40,600 --> 00:30:44,100
he should eat was Genesis
chapter 2, which says in the

499
00:30:44,108 --> 00:30:49,200
beginning, you know, God created
a husband wife and in man will

500
00:30:49,200 --> 00:30:51,700
you know leave his father and
mother and cling to her and then

501
00:30:51,700 --> 00:30:54,000
I'll send that sort of stuff.
So he Trump's the argument by

502
00:30:54,900 --> 00:31:00,200
quoting the earliest impossible
but in the process he says In

503
00:31:00,200 --> 00:31:05,100
the beginning, it was not.
So Moses allowed this because of

504
00:31:05,108 --> 00:31:09,500
the hardness of your hearts.
He doesn't chew out Moses.

505
00:31:10,000 --> 00:31:15,500
He didn't say, Moses gave you a
lesser law because he was

506
00:31:15,600 --> 00:31:18,800
worried that you would read her.
He was acting on his own or he

507
00:31:18,800 --> 00:31:24,700
was being a jerk or he says he
took it away because you were

508
00:31:24,700 --> 00:31:28,400
being Wicked, right?
And and Joseph Smith says, the

509
00:31:28,400 --> 00:31:31,900
Old Testament basically was all
these caramel laws because of

510
00:31:31,908 --> 00:31:35,200
the wickedness of the people.
It was a cursing to them.

511
00:31:36,500 --> 00:31:40,300
So I'm You know, I'm looking at
this kind of attitude and saying

512
00:31:40,800 --> 00:31:43,600
God gives, and he takes away,
and he doesn't want you to have

513
00:31:43,600 --> 00:31:48,300
Doctrine, he just pulls it away.
So I in the people didn't want

514
00:31:48,300 --> 00:31:50,800
it, they fought and argued
against it.

515
00:31:51,200 --> 00:31:53,700
Some like it, some level.
I'm supportive of the church

516
00:31:53,700 --> 00:31:58,500
saying, no, he never taught it
or, you know, he speculated or

517
00:31:58,600 --> 00:32:00,000
he was wrong.
I don't care.

518
00:32:00,400 --> 00:32:03,000
As long as they're not lying,
that's where I do draw the line,

519
00:32:03,000 --> 00:32:08,300
I get to get frustrated with but
in and that was One of the goals

520
00:32:08,300 --> 00:32:10,300
of the book because I wanted, I
wanted this.

521
00:32:10,600 --> 00:32:13,400
He never taught it crap to end.
It's a lie.

522
00:32:13,700 --> 00:32:17,200
Everybody can just get on board.
That, that was a lie and get

523
00:32:17,200 --> 00:32:20,600
over it.
And to say he was speculating,

524
00:32:21,900 --> 00:32:24,600
you know, you can call it that
now, but he clearly thought he

525
00:32:24,600 --> 00:32:27,000
was in speculating.
He put it was in the endowment

526
00:32:27,000 --> 00:32:30,300
and they excommunicated people
for not believing in the hole 12

527
00:32:30,300 --> 00:32:32,800
wanted to excommunicate, Orson
Pratt for not believing it.

528
00:32:33,300 --> 00:32:35,300
So let's get rid of that crap,
too.

529
00:32:35,800 --> 00:32:37,600
That's part of why I wrote the
book, you know.

530
00:32:38,000 --> 00:32:40,800
And the first time we see it in
the Journal of discourses, it's

531
00:32:40,800 --> 00:32:44,300
at a general conference, right?
It's not a simple.

532
00:32:44,500 --> 00:32:49,600
Hey, and by the way, atoms, your
father, it's deep he's going in

533
00:32:49,900 --> 00:32:52,800
and he is explaining it at
length.

534
00:32:52,800 --> 00:32:58,000
So when they say he was
misquoted, I often say, then you

535
00:32:58,000 --> 00:33:02,800
have to ignore context, right?
Because there's a ton of context

536
00:33:02,800 --> 00:33:05,400
around this, you don't that
that's not an argument that's

537
00:33:05,400 --> 00:33:10,500
going to hold very much water.
Well, into I divided up very

538
00:33:10,500 --> 00:33:13,200
carefully.
It's a different chapter in the

539
00:33:13,200 --> 00:33:15,400
book, Jesus is sorry.
Chief.

540
00:33:16,100 --> 00:33:17,800
Jehovah is the father of our
Spirits.

541
00:33:18,400 --> 00:33:20,200
Jehovah is the father of Jesus.
We can disable.

542
00:33:20,200 --> 00:33:24,200
That means, Adam Scott, right?
I mean, but then you're like

543
00:33:24,200 --> 00:33:25,500
well, how does that am Jehovah?
Okay.

544
00:33:25,500 --> 00:33:26,700
Well we'll get these other
quotes.

545
00:33:26,700 --> 00:33:28,800
That's what a lot of
fundamentals did in the past.

546
00:33:29,200 --> 00:33:31,300
I'm like that doesn't say Adam
is God.

547
00:33:32,000 --> 00:33:34,300
I mean, people have have used
that to argue that, but it

548
00:33:34,300 --> 00:33:38,000
doesn't say it.
This says Adam is the Father of

549
00:33:38,000 --> 00:33:41,700
our Spirits, that's a different
section than Adam is God, you

550
00:33:41,700 --> 00:33:43,500
know?
Yeah, I think they mean the same

551
00:33:43,500 --> 00:33:47,100
thing, but they're distinction.
There's a distinction there and

552
00:33:47,100 --> 00:33:49,300
saying, Jehovah is the father of
our spirits.

553
00:33:49,800 --> 00:33:54,400
Well, that's different to that
doesn't say Adam, you know, it

554
00:33:54,400 --> 00:33:57,600
does mean Jesus, isn't that
Jehovah?

555
00:33:58,300 --> 00:34:00,500
At least it suggests it, you
know.

556
00:34:00,500 --> 00:34:03,100
So I divided all those in
separate chapters and just Adam

557
00:34:03,100 --> 00:34:08,500
is, God is like 100, you don't
misquote 100 times. 25 years.

558
00:34:09,300 --> 00:34:12,800
So that's part of why I did the
book the way I did.

559
00:34:13,300 --> 00:34:16,800
And since then I mean that's
been 17 years ago which makes me

560
00:34:16,800 --> 00:34:21,000
feel really old.
But but since that time that

561
00:34:21,000 --> 00:34:22,800
argument is pretty much out of
favor.

562
00:34:22,900 --> 00:34:26,900
Like I don't care that much.
I did see in forums for a while.

563
00:34:27,199 --> 00:34:30,100
I would just be curious every
once in a while going for him to

564
00:34:30,199 --> 00:34:33,400
Adam about forums and people
would be saying have you read

565
00:34:33,400 --> 00:34:35,600
Drew brownies and understanding,
Adam got teachings.

566
00:34:35,600 --> 00:34:38,900
And so you know and say quit.
Arguing all this crap that

567
00:34:38,900 --> 00:34:41,199
you're saying, read the book,
and if you still think that then

568
00:34:41,199 --> 00:34:43,300
you can talk to us.
But otherwise just stop it.

569
00:34:44,000 --> 00:34:49,400
And in as much as it was kind of
rude and ruthless, I was so

570
00:34:49,400 --> 00:34:57,600
gratified that that it wasn't.
It was no longer this old

571
00:34:57,600 --> 00:35:01,300
Paradigm, it was okay.
We had now have a book that gets

572
00:35:01,300 --> 00:35:05,400
rid of this argument, right?
Just definitive and if you just

573
00:35:05,400 --> 00:35:07,600
read it you cannot come to any
other conclusion.

574
00:35:07,800 --> 00:35:12,700
Version and move on.
And and I found that really

575
00:35:12,700 --> 00:35:15,300
gratifying because I was like,
that's, that's what I want.

576
00:35:15,500 --> 00:35:19,800
You know, it's not because the
argument sake, I want the truth

577
00:35:19,800 --> 00:35:24,300
to be available and out there
and Beyond dispute, you know, I

578
00:35:24,300 --> 00:35:27,200
think one of the things that's
so interesting is that your book

579
00:35:27,200 --> 00:35:30,400
comes out about the time we
start seeing Mormon history,

580
00:35:30,400 --> 00:35:33,000
getting plastered on the
internet, right?

581
00:35:33,000 --> 00:35:37,500
And so this idea that we could
just keep it a secret forever,

582
00:35:37,700 --> 00:35:40,000
So to speak isn't going to
happen.

583
00:35:40,000 --> 00:35:43,900
Not not in the information age,
not with the Internet, it's all

584
00:35:43,900 --> 00:35:47,400
over the place.
And if if we as fundamentalist

585
00:35:47,400 --> 00:35:52,100
don't go out there and talk
about it, then we allow someone

586
00:35:52,100 --> 00:35:57,700
else to frame that narrative and
and to me, it's so important

587
00:35:57,700 --> 00:36:02,000
that we talk about these sorts
of doctrines in these things.

588
00:36:02,000 --> 00:36:04,700
So we get a real clear
understanding of what they are

589
00:36:05,100 --> 00:36:09,700
because a lot of what what the
ante Mormons will do is they

590
00:36:09,700 --> 00:36:14,400
will take a snippet of it
without any context and so what

591
00:36:14,400 --> 00:36:19,900
the Republican is correct but
not in context yes and then

592
00:36:20,000 --> 00:36:27,500
correct yes exactly and that and
so I just find it a an act of

593
00:36:27,500 --> 00:36:30,400
Providence that your book comes
out about the time you start

594
00:36:30,400 --> 00:36:34,900
seeing all of this, hit the
internet and so in some ways I

595
00:36:34,900 --> 00:36:40,100
was fortunate because When I was
looking at the church, my mom

596
00:36:40,100 --> 00:36:43,800
was was dead set.
We were, I was going to be an

597
00:36:43,800 --> 00:36:46,400
Evangelical.
And when I told her, I was

598
00:36:46,400 --> 00:36:49,700
studying the Mormon faith,
shoot.

599
00:36:50,700 --> 00:36:55,600
Yeah, yeah.
She went, she went and had had

600
00:36:55,600 --> 00:36:58,000
her leader print up a bunch of
stuff from the Journal of

601
00:36:58,000 --> 00:37:00,300
discourses.
And I took it to the elders and

602
00:37:00,300 --> 00:37:03,100
it blew the elders minds, and
then the bishop, and it blew his

603
00:37:03,100 --> 00:37:05,200
mind.
And then the stake president

604
00:37:05,200 --> 00:37:07,100
said, well I remember hearing
Something about this.

605
00:37:07,100 --> 00:37:08,800
You need to go talk to
so-and-so.

606
00:37:09,100 --> 00:37:12,900
Who was our steak patriarch?
Just an old farmer, and he spent

607
00:37:12,900 --> 00:37:16,600
hours and hours, breaking this
stuff down for me.

608
00:37:16,700 --> 00:37:20,400
Everything from Adam God, the
plural marriage, you name it,

609
00:37:20,400 --> 00:37:23,400
right?
They nice blood, blood atonement

610
00:37:23,400 --> 00:37:27,900
but he explained it.
Also, when I did start really

611
00:37:27,900 --> 00:37:31,700
diving deep, I didn't have the
freakout factor that a lot of

612
00:37:31,700 --> 00:37:34,700
other folks.
Did, I was very blessed in that

613
00:37:34,700 --> 00:37:37,200
matter.
That would help me a lot.

614
00:37:37,200 --> 00:37:40,100
I think, yeah, I was always
excited.

615
00:37:40,100 --> 00:37:43,600
But every step along the way I
was like, Oh, shoot, what do I

616
00:37:43,607 --> 00:37:47,300
think about this?
You know, and what do I make of

617
00:37:47,300 --> 00:37:50,100
this?
And I didn't like, they're just

618
00:37:50,800 --> 00:37:55,300
as a, for example, there is a
book out there, that kind of

619
00:37:55,400 --> 00:38:00,200
addresses the topic, but you hit
stuff about multiple probations.

620
00:38:00,700 --> 00:38:05,800
There's there is no clear
well-organized.

621
00:38:05,900 --> 00:38:08,100
Work that lays out what the
Brethren taught.

622
00:38:09,000 --> 00:38:11,100
You know.
There's one book that says some

623
00:38:11,400 --> 00:38:14,700
got a lot of quotes but it's
mixed in with lots of other

624
00:38:14,700 --> 00:38:16,300
stuff.
It's very disorganized.

625
00:38:16,300 --> 00:38:19,900
It's got a lot of really good
resources but at the end of the

626
00:38:19,900 --> 00:38:23,700
day I'm like, okay.
So what about dissolution?

627
00:38:23,700 --> 00:38:25,900
What about second death?
What about Brigham's teaching

628
00:38:25,900 --> 00:38:27,900
that this didn't apply the sons
of Perdition?

629
00:38:27,900 --> 00:38:31,900
What about I mean there are tons
of topics that you run across,

630
00:38:31,900 --> 00:38:37,200
but there's no Where's the book
that puts all the stuff together

631
00:38:37,200 --> 00:38:39,300
for you?
You know, it's right, nobody

632
00:38:39,300 --> 00:38:43,500
wants to touch hot topics like
that and that one I've got a 3

633
00:38:43,500 --> 00:38:47,600
inch binder, but it's not
published that's waiting for me

634
00:38:47,600 --> 00:38:51,400
to go through it.
But there are lots of things

635
00:38:51,400 --> 00:38:54,500
like that and people lose their
testimonies over it and it's

636
00:38:54,500 --> 00:38:56,900
really easy for anti Mormons to
say, well, look at this, quote

637
00:38:56,900 --> 00:38:57,900
going.
Oh my gosh!

638
00:38:57,900 --> 00:39:01,800
What is what is that?
And in in with changed

639
00:39:01,800 --> 00:39:05,400
definitions of Simple.
Things like the definition of

640
00:39:05,400 --> 00:39:08,900
Jehovah, simple definition on
what is the kingdom of God and

641
00:39:08,900 --> 00:39:11,400
that isn't the church in early
Mormon teachings.

642
00:39:11,400 --> 00:39:14,400
And so, what does it mean?
When it says that what is

643
00:39:14,400 --> 00:39:16,800
intelligence versus spirit in
the early church?

644
00:39:16,800 --> 00:39:20,700
It's taught very frequently.
It's common it's a common theme

645
00:39:20,700 --> 00:39:23,500
today.
Not so much in the church and

646
00:39:23,500 --> 00:39:25,500
I've had some that even today.
Ask me.

647
00:39:25,900 --> 00:39:28,300
Well what do you think about
these different ideas as well?

648
00:39:28,700 --> 00:39:33,200
The early brother and taught
that intelligence was the basic

649
00:39:33,200 --> 00:39:36,000
development of who we are in a
spirit is added to that in the

650
00:39:36,008 --> 00:39:39,700
bodies added to that.
So what you're teaching doesn't

651
00:39:39,700 --> 00:39:43,200
mesh with that.
And so I stick with the early

652
00:39:43,200 --> 00:39:46,400
Brethren to go sir, the fountain
I get the more secure, I feel

653
00:39:46,600 --> 00:39:49,800
with meeting with their
doctrines generally speaking.

654
00:39:50,700 --> 00:39:53,800
You know there are some
exceptions when they later grow

655
00:39:53,800 --> 00:39:56,300
and say I didn't understand this
fully but she was more that's

656
00:39:56,300 --> 00:40:00,200
first time.
But there are a lot of topics

657
00:40:00,200 --> 00:40:03,100
that there just is no definitive
resource about it.

658
00:40:03,300 --> 00:40:07,000
So people continue to argue
about it until that's out there

659
00:40:07,600 --> 00:40:10,600
and and that's that's what
drives my, my studies.

660
00:40:13,400 --> 00:40:16,600
Anyway, that's awesome.
So at what point did you

661
00:40:16,600 --> 00:40:18,600
realize?
Oh crap.

662
00:40:18,600 --> 00:40:21,600
I'm a full-blown fundamentalist
because I remember having that

663
00:40:21,600 --> 00:40:23,000
thought.
Yeah.

664
00:40:24,400 --> 00:40:29,000
Well.
I think I kind of had an

665
00:40:29,000 --> 00:40:32,900
intellectual testimony.
That was sitting there that I

666
00:40:32,900 --> 00:40:35,700
knew certain things were true
but I didn't know where to put

667
00:40:35,700 --> 00:40:38,800
them.
I was content with a I'm sure

668
00:40:38,800 --> 00:40:40,900
the Brethren know these things
and they took away this light

669
00:40:40,900 --> 00:40:44,800
knowledge for the good of the
people and you know, but slowly

670
00:40:44,800 --> 00:40:50,300
that was getting eroded away but
I think what really solidified

671
00:40:50,300 --> 00:40:55,100
it for me is I got invited I
looked on the internet to find

672
00:40:55,100 --> 00:41:00,800
fundamentalist groups And the
man at the time on the internet.

673
00:41:00,800 --> 00:41:04,400
All everything was awful.
It's scary awful.

674
00:41:04,400 --> 00:41:10,300
Not just awful.
But I ran across somebody, and

675
00:41:10,300 --> 00:41:14,600
he was use a 70 in the EU be.
And for any listeners, don't

676
00:41:14,600 --> 00:41:15,900
know.
That's a pasta like United

677
00:41:15,900 --> 00:41:18,200
Brethren.
It's basically, they consider

678
00:41:18,200 --> 00:41:22,500
themselves a break off of the
church and honor the church, but

679
00:41:22,500 --> 00:41:26,100
don't go to church.
Well, the church like this.

680
00:41:26,800 --> 00:41:29,400
Anyway, so he was a 70 wheeler,
went over to his house for

681
00:41:29,400 --> 00:41:32,700
dinner, he is just going to
answer questions for me because

682
00:41:32,700 --> 00:41:34,100
I was like what else do you guys
believe?

683
00:41:34,100 --> 00:41:37,200
And you know I've been doing all
this studying and I was you know

684
00:41:37,200 --> 00:41:40,600
kind of curious for somebody who
was in it what they really

685
00:41:40,600 --> 00:41:46,300
thought about and in the despite
some of the bad press and I was

686
00:41:46,300 --> 00:41:50,300
their attorney for like the
Dozen Years or so this.

687
00:41:50,400 --> 00:41:54,600
So I know a lot of bad press is
crap but despite the bad press

688
00:41:54,600 --> 00:42:00,300
the really very They're normal
people for the most part, you

689
00:42:00,308 --> 00:42:03,100
know, I mean, as a group, the
very, very good people.

690
00:42:03,700 --> 00:42:07,000
And so I went to his house and
that it him and his two wives

691
00:42:07,500 --> 00:42:10,200
and we talked about all sorts of
stuff, you just answered all

692
00:42:10,200 --> 00:42:15,100
sorts of questions.
But I felt the spirit a lot and

693
00:42:15,100 --> 00:42:19,600
I was surprised.
I mean, part of me knew, I'm

694
00:42:19,600 --> 00:42:21,900
studying stuff, I'm feeling the
spirit, I know this is true,

695
00:42:21,900 --> 00:42:23,400
ponies.
Like there's no way this can be

696
00:42:23,400 --> 00:42:25,800
true.
There's no way that can be pre

697
00:42:25,800 --> 00:42:28,600
stood outside the church.
There's no way that there can be

698
00:42:29,400 --> 00:42:33,100
doctrines.
So voluminous that the church is

699
00:42:33,100 --> 00:42:37,700
rejected.
I just this is impossible but I

700
00:42:38,000 --> 00:42:41,000
was compelled to study and learn
anyways, I couldn't let it go

701
00:42:41,000 --> 00:42:43,800
because I kept running
spiritually Fed.

702
00:42:44,400 --> 00:42:49,200
So Anyway so I went to his
house.

703
00:42:49,200 --> 00:42:52,100
Answer questions went with my
wife, took her a while to be

704
00:42:52,100 --> 00:42:58,800
convinced even go and we left
his house and we got in the car

705
00:43:00,000 --> 00:43:02,200
and I started talked to her.
She said something like just

706
00:43:02,200 --> 00:43:06,200
drive just like okay so we got
to the end of the property where

707
00:43:06,200 --> 00:43:09,900
he lived and there's a railroad,
crossing stop sign, I stopped

708
00:43:09,900 --> 00:43:15,200
there and I said, you know, I
feel the spirit a lot.

709
00:43:15,200 --> 00:43:16,100
Do you have?
Don't you?

710
00:43:16,200 --> 00:43:20,900
She says, I don't want to talk
about it and I said if the, if

711
00:43:20,900 --> 00:43:24,500
he was living in adultery, we
would not feel the spirit like

712
00:43:24,500 --> 00:43:27,100
this.
And that's actually what she

713
00:43:27,100 --> 00:43:28,800
said, the book don't talk about
just drive.

714
00:43:29,800 --> 00:43:32,000
Because like, all right, so we
went home and I felt spared a

715
00:43:32,008 --> 00:43:34,100
lot.
And I just kind of thought,

716
00:43:34,100 --> 00:43:39,700
okay, well it's one more chapter
of my experience it now I'm

717
00:43:39,700 --> 00:43:42,400
having a hard time.
Not believing.

718
00:43:42,400 --> 00:43:47,400
This is where I need to be going
and she woke up.

719
00:43:47,400 --> 00:43:51,700
My wife woke up several times.
That night, spiritual excited.

720
00:43:52,300 --> 00:43:55,600
She's like keep waking up.
And I'm like, super excited.

721
00:43:55,600 --> 00:43:57,100
I'm like you can't be excited
about this.

722
00:43:57,100 --> 00:44:01,900
Plug-in is awful and so She's
like stop, you know, and then

723
00:44:01,900 --> 00:44:04,200
she fell back asleep at this,
kept happening to her and that

724
00:44:04,200 --> 00:44:06,400
was part of her testimony of her
girls, too.

725
00:44:09,500 --> 00:44:15,700
And I think that was probably
the night that I knew I needed

726
00:44:15,700 --> 00:44:19,200
to keep studying I needed to
keep learning and it was going

727
00:44:19,200 --> 00:44:22,000
to be a long time before I knew
everything that I wanted to

728
00:44:22,000 --> 00:44:27,000
know, but my wife wasn't ready.
So I waited about a year for her

729
00:44:27,300 --> 00:44:31,100
to feel comfortable and be ready
to say.

730
00:44:31,200 --> 00:44:35,200
I'm ready to get baptized and
even then, she had moments,

731
00:44:35,200 --> 00:44:40,400
feeling sketchy about it.
You're, you know, She grew a

732
00:44:40,400 --> 00:44:46,800
Pioneer Mormon and it was eldest
at 14 and had lots of pressure

733
00:44:46,800 --> 00:44:49,600
to stay the course in the
family.

734
00:44:50,200 --> 00:44:53,200
And most of her challenge,
really boiled down to.

735
00:44:53,600 --> 00:44:56,500
I don't want my family to be
disappointed in me, right?

736
00:44:56,800 --> 00:44:59,000
It wasn't doctrinal.
It wasn't spiritual.

737
00:44:59,000 --> 00:45:04,600
It was just social pressure and
and I really struggle being

738
00:45:04,600 --> 00:45:06,200
patient.
Waiting for that.

739
00:45:06,400 --> 00:45:11,300
No, because I'm just Like, I
don't care about my peers.

740
00:45:11,300 --> 00:45:13,300
I don't care about social.
I don't care about family.

741
00:45:13,800 --> 00:45:17,500
I care about God, I care about
the truth and to hell with

742
00:45:17,500 --> 00:45:20,600
everything else.
Yeah, I think guys, like you,

743
00:45:20,600 --> 00:45:23,900
and I have a different, a
different take on it because in

744
00:45:23,900 --> 00:45:27,900
some ways we've already ripped
up our foundation, once, right?

745
00:45:28,100 --> 00:45:32,400
Yes, the rip that bad boy up and
we built it and this time, you

746
00:45:32,400 --> 00:45:35,900
know, going from Mormon to
fundamentalist.

747
00:45:36,300 --> 00:45:38,100
Well, that's not nearly as
drastic, right?

748
00:45:38,100 --> 00:45:39,100
We're just going to take it
down.

749
00:45:39,300 --> 00:45:45,000
The stud this time, right?
And so and so this idea of

750
00:45:45,000 --> 00:45:48,200
discovering more, that that
doesn't really scare guys like

751
00:45:48,200 --> 00:45:50,300
you and I think, or at least
that's been the experience.

752
00:45:50,300 --> 00:45:53,200
I've had in talking to people
because we've been down there

753
00:45:53,200 --> 00:45:57,000
once we're like, yeah, it kind
of sucks at the beginning.

754
00:45:57,000 --> 00:46:03,100
But afterwards it's really cool.
And for others who have like,

755
00:46:03,100 --> 00:46:05,100
your wife, my wife was the same
way.

756
00:46:05,600 --> 00:46:08,700
They got, they do have those
social pressures, write those

757
00:46:09,200 --> 00:46:12,600
Hillier pressures.
That hey, you're going to screw

758
00:46:12,600 --> 00:46:17,200
up, heaven for us, right?
Yeah, and that's, that's a lot

759
00:46:17,200 --> 00:46:23,200
of pressure, and so, As I've
gotten older and a little bit

760
00:46:23,200 --> 00:46:25,300
more wiser, not much just a
skosh.

761
00:46:25,600 --> 00:46:30,700
I found that it takes, you got
to be gentle with folks in that

762
00:46:30,700 --> 00:46:33,900
situation, because, yeah, that's
a pressure.

763
00:46:33,900 --> 00:46:37,000
I will never understand.
I mean, I can know about it

764
00:46:37,000 --> 00:46:40,100
academically, but I've never
been in the thick of it.

765
00:46:41,300 --> 00:46:45,300
Yeah, well, you know, I for me,
I can't, I have to live

766
00:46:45,300 --> 00:46:48,400
authentically.
I can't pretend, I can't be in

767
00:46:48,400 --> 00:46:52,800
that fake land.
Where I'm sitting in church

768
00:46:52,800 --> 00:46:57,600
pretending to be happy because
that's what's expected and

769
00:46:57,600 --> 00:46:59,800
pretending to feel like.
Wow, that was a powerful.

770
00:47:00,900 --> 00:47:04,800
This course when I'm like, man,
I read hundreds of discourses

771
00:47:04,800 --> 00:47:06,700
from the early brother and I
haven't finished the general

772
00:47:06,700 --> 00:47:10,100
discourses, but I've read at
least, you know, quarter of it,

773
00:47:11,500 --> 00:47:13,900
she I read more than that, but
not a whole lot, you know.

774
00:47:16,300 --> 00:47:20,000
It's the end of the day they
taught way deeper stuff than

775
00:47:20,000 --> 00:47:21,700
what goes comes.
Across the pulpit now and I

776
00:47:21,707 --> 00:47:23,800
can't pretend like that was
moving to me.

777
00:47:23,800 --> 00:47:26,500
It's like that's baby Doctrine.
I've heard that loss.

778
00:47:26,600 --> 00:47:32,600
It's just not powerful and I
can't live the lie, you know,

779
00:47:32,600 --> 00:47:34,500
right.
And that's, yeah.

780
00:47:34,500 --> 00:47:37,800
I could like we were talking
about when we were off air here,

781
00:47:38,100 --> 00:47:41,700
I was the same way.
Only I would hear things that

782
00:47:41,700 --> 00:47:46,600
were patently false and I would
be like Leaving church.

783
00:47:46,600 --> 00:47:51,000
Just pissed off, right?
Yeah, right.

784
00:47:51,000 --> 00:47:54,400
But it's not their fault because
they are the most of the people

785
00:47:54,400 --> 00:47:57,100
who say it honestly, believe it.
Yes.

786
00:47:57,100 --> 00:47:58,400
Right.
And so yeah.

787
00:47:58,500 --> 00:48:01,100
Yeah.
I think Drew I, at least for me

788
00:48:01,100 --> 00:48:04,400
once, you know, you know, you
might be able to press it for a

789
00:48:04,400 --> 00:48:09,000
while, but in some point the
truth is going to have its day.

790
00:48:09,400 --> 00:48:14,800
Yeah.
Yeah, you know, and, and I think

791
00:48:14,800 --> 00:48:18,500
everybody has these these Faith
crisis along the way.

792
00:48:19,900 --> 00:48:27,700
But if you really God wants us
to grow.

793
00:48:28,800 --> 00:48:33,300
It doesn't matter what level
you're on, and it might not be

794
00:48:33,300 --> 00:48:35,400
every week.
It might not be every month, but

795
00:48:35,400 --> 00:48:38,100
every once in a while, he gives
you, these really powerful

796
00:48:38,100 --> 00:48:42,500
experiences that Let you know
that you're on the right course

797
00:48:43,500 --> 00:48:52,700
and and you know I worried for a
long time if I can digress for a

798
00:48:52,700 --> 00:48:54,100
minute.
Absolutely.

799
00:48:55,700 --> 00:49:00,200
You know I was under a lot of
social pressure that you know

800
00:49:00,200 --> 00:49:03,900
Drew you're just really off the
deep end and you're a bad guy

801
00:49:04,400 --> 00:49:07,500
and you're an attorney and
you're living a lie.

802
00:49:07,500 --> 00:49:12,100
You've got to oath to protect
the, you know, against The Ted

803
00:49:13,000 --> 00:49:16,100
to stand up for the law and
polygamy is against the law, and

804
00:49:16,100 --> 00:49:19,800
you're living polygamy in what
they've got all their arguments.

805
00:49:20,900 --> 00:49:24,800
Meanwhile, I produce a pamphlet
called I defy, the United

806
00:49:24,800 --> 00:49:26,900
States, which is a quote, from
John Taylor on civil

807
00:49:26,900 --> 00:49:32,600
disobedience, and, you know, but
there's, there's all that I was

808
00:49:32,600 --> 00:49:36,100
getting a lot of pressure and I
hadn't had as many spiritual

809
00:49:36,100 --> 00:49:38,600
experiences as I was accustomed
to for a while.

810
00:49:39,100 --> 00:49:43,500
It's just is kind of a hard time
of life and I went to Zion on

811
00:49:43,500 --> 00:49:50,900
vacation and We were hiking
every day for a week and I've

812
00:49:50,900 --> 00:49:54,900
got 15 kids.
I think I had 13 then 12.

813
00:49:54,900 --> 00:49:59,700
Maybe so a lot, but they're all
hiking and I had a

814
00:49:59,707 --> 00:50:03,300
seven-year-old who she was?
She was six almost seven, but

815
00:50:03,300 --> 00:50:05,400
she knew she was hiking with
everybody else.

816
00:50:05,400 --> 00:50:08,200
And then when we got home to
Camp, she's playing frisbee like

817
00:50:08,200 --> 00:50:09,700
with herself because nobody
wanted place.

818
00:50:09,700 --> 00:50:10,600
So she throw it.
Run.

819
00:50:10,600 --> 00:50:12,100
Chase it, grab it, pick it up
front.

820
00:50:12,800 --> 00:50:15,900
She played with everybody.
She could she just non-stop, you

821
00:50:15,908 --> 00:50:19,100
know.
And we got home from the

822
00:50:19,100 --> 00:50:23,300
vacation, and she came into my
bedroom and she said, Mom, Dad,

823
00:50:23,300 --> 00:50:28,000
I'm feeling sick.
And we're like, okay well how

824
00:50:28,000 --> 00:50:31,900
you Feelin sick?
She basically described that she

825
00:50:31,900 --> 00:50:34,800
was dehydrated.
So I said, how do you been in a

826
00:50:34,808 --> 00:50:37,000
desert for a week and you don't
stop.

827
00:50:37,000 --> 00:50:38,600
Go.
Drink a bunch, she'll be fine.

828
00:50:38,700 --> 00:50:41,600
You know, you got a headache and
didn't Asia, you'll be okay.

829
00:50:42,500 --> 00:50:44,900
So about half hour later she
comes back in, she starts

830
00:50:44,900 --> 00:50:46,500
talking throws up all over the
floor.

831
00:50:48,600 --> 00:50:52,200
I'm not a super patient guy.
She's old enough not to do that.

832
00:50:52,200 --> 00:50:58,900
I'm a little bit annoyed and so,
you know, we just kind of kind

833
00:50:58,900 --> 00:51:05,500
of deal with it cleanup and the
next morning we get up and she's

834
00:51:05,500 --> 00:51:09,000
got these purple lines that look
like lightning streaks on her

835
00:51:09,000 --> 00:51:12,000
cheeks.
Like shoot, what's that?

836
00:51:13,200 --> 00:51:17,300
And I look it up so we I don't
know.

837
00:51:17,300 --> 00:51:23,300
I'm in a hurry to work and so I
give her a blessing and I said,

838
00:51:23,300 --> 00:51:25,700
I command you to be healed
according to the faith of your

839
00:51:25,700 --> 00:51:30,600
parents.
And I took my hands off in that

840
00:51:30,600 --> 00:51:33,900
purple was gone.
Wow, now I didn't know at the

841
00:51:33,908 --> 00:51:40,300
time that was per performance
which is comes from D IC, which

842
00:51:40,300 --> 00:51:43,500
is a blood condition that the
nurses affectionately calls

843
00:51:43,500 --> 00:51:46,300
death is coming.
I don't know what it really

844
00:51:46,300 --> 00:51:47,600
stands for me.
That's what they call it,

845
00:51:47,600 --> 00:51:52,300
because almost nobody survives.
So, I go to work and that purple

846
00:51:52,300 --> 00:51:54,100
is gone.
Something can God's answered my

847
00:51:54,100 --> 00:51:55,400
prayer.
It's not a big deal.

848
00:51:55,500 --> 00:51:57,300
I've got, you know, Been gone
for a week.

849
00:51:57,300 --> 00:52:10,300
I got to catch up and it's going
to be a busy day. so, I So I get

850
00:52:10,300 --> 00:52:13,200
a call from my wife later and
she said that purples back and I

851
00:52:13,200 --> 00:52:15,000
said I'd looked it up.
It looks like it might be a

852
00:52:15,000 --> 00:52:18,700
black widow bite.
You know because of all she's

853
00:52:18,700 --> 00:52:22,100
talking I'm looking it up.
She said I can I take her to the

854
00:52:22,100 --> 00:52:24,400
doctor?
I said well sure just don't let

855
00:52:24,400 --> 00:52:26,000
him.
Give you all the hype.

856
00:52:26,000 --> 00:52:29,600
You know, make you think it's a
big deal, it's not type thing.

857
00:52:30,000 --> 00:52:34,300
So she goes to this doctor, he's
a family member and extended

858
00:52:34,300 --> 00:52:38,100
family and he's really nice guy.
And I get a call about an hour

859
00:52:38,100 --> 00:52:39,100
later.
This is Drew.

860
00:52:39,600 --> 00:52:44,900
I know early says that you know,
you don't want me to be.

861
00:52:46,700 --> 00:52:50,000
Blowing this out of proportion,
but I'm really concerned about

862
00:52:50,000 --> 00:52:53,500
your daughter and if it was me,
I would want her in the hospital

863
00:52:53,500 --> 00:52:59,100
right away.
Fine, you know, and I don't know

864
00:52:59,107 --> 00:53:01,900
if I spoke right or not, but she
just said, you know, you mind if

865
00:53:01,900 --> 00:53:05,100
I take her to the doctor, you
know, not the hospital.

866
00:53:05,500 --> 00:53:07,400
So I'm like, fine, take her to
the hospital, you know?

867
00:53:08,300 --> 00:53:12,700
And so I get called later from
the hospital's like true, we

868
00:53:12,700 --> 00:53:15,900
need to lie flat, her to
Children's Primary and she's

869
00:53:15,900 --> 00:53:18,700
getting worse.
And I'm like this is exactly

870
00:53:18,700 --> 00:53:20,900
what I'm talking about.
You know, it don't blow this out

871
00:53:20,900 --> 00:53:24,300
of proportion and the guy says,
I can't tell you how concerned I

872
00:53:24,300 --> 00:53:31,200
am for your daughter.
And and and so I'm like, I mean,

873
00:53:31,200 --> 00:53:33,700
do what you got to do?
And I was, I was an attorney

874
00:53:33,700 --> 00:53:37,400
doing all sorts of stuff.
I knew that a lifeflight sixteen

875
00:53:37,400 --> 00:53:39,600
thousand dollar medical bill,
right?

876
00:53:39,600 --> 00:53:42,900
And I'm, you know, I wasn't
making great money but I wasn't

877
00:53:42,900 --> 00:53:45,700
making horrible money.
But 16 thousands big chunk for,

878
00:53:46,100 --> 00:53:50,600
you know, being overcautious.
So I later found out that they

879
00:53:50,600 --> 00:53:54,300
had doctor at primary children
said it was just a drill for

880
00:53:54,300 --> 00:53:55,800
her.
Stay expected her to be dead

881
00:53:55,800 --> 00:53:59,400
when she showed up based on the
information they got but I had

882
00:53:59,400 --> 00:54:02,000
no clue at this point.
I'm just, you know, the doctors

883
00:54:02,000 --> 00:54:05,200
can be overly reactionary and I
hate that about medicine

884
00:54:05,200 --> 00:54:09,200
profession.
So next thing I know I'm driving

885
00:54:09,200 --> 00:54:12,500
up to the hospital and driving
my kids back to home, while my

886
00:54:12,500 --> 00:54:15,900
wife is life lighting to Salt
Lake with the kids and you know

887
00:54:15,900 --> 00:54:18,300
doing the in the middle of my
day that I'm really already

888
00:54:18,300 --> 00:54:20,000
behind in.
You know, the sort of stuff.

889
00:54:21,200 --> 00:54:26,100
So by the time I get to the
hospital, my daughter is hooked

890
00:54:26,100 --> 00:54:32,000
up to all sorts of life support.
And I'm like, what the heck is

891
00:54:32,000 --> 00:54:34,000
going on?
You know, I gave her blessing

892
00:54:34,000 --> 00:54:38,100
the Healer and it was honored
and now it's worse than ever,

893
00:54:38,100 --> 00:54:42,100
you know, and I'm feeling pretty
bad about myself and I'm getting

894
00:54:42,100 --> 00:54:45,300
all this social pressure, Drew
you're fundamentalist, you got

895
00:54:45,300 --> 00:54:47,600
to be a wicked guy.
You got to repent, go to come

896
00:54:47,600 --> 00:54:51,000
back to the church, you know,
God's not going to honor you any

897
00:54:51,000 --> 00:54:53,700
more for me, going off, the
stream, living adultery, all the

898
00:54:53,700 --> 00:54:57,000
stuff, you know.
And I and I am really

899
00:54:57,000 --> 00:54:58,500
struggling.
I'm like, man.

900
00:55:01,900 --> 00:55:03,600
Maybe I'm off somewhere.
I don't know.

901
00:55:03,600 --> 00:55:04,900
And I'm praying.
Really hard.

902
00:55:04,900 --> 00:55:06,000
Where am I off?
You know.

903
00:55:06,800 --> 00:55:09,300
So few days are like this and I
asked my father-in-law, to give

904
00:55:09,300 --> 00:55:13,200
her a blessing.
And, and he's fundamentals to

905
00:55:13,300 --> 00:55:17,800
back these rulon Allred son and
he gave him a favor of blessing.

906
00:55:17,800 --> 00:55:20,300
He basically said less the
doctors figure out what's wrong

907
00:55:20,300 --> 00:55:25,000
with you and I was and I love
the guys, a good friend of mine,

908
00:55:25,000 --> 00:55:27,000
I was kind of pissed.
Sure.

909
00:55:27,000 --> 00:55:29,500
I was like that is not a
Facebook blessing you know

910
00:55:29,500 --> 00:55:31,300
that's a that's a cop-out
blessing.

911
00:55:31,600 --> 00:55:33,600
Don't care about the stupid
doctors, I care about God.

912
00:55:33,600 --> 00:55:37,000
I've seen God's power of see
I've I've seen, I had a boy,

913
00:55:37,000 --> 00:55:41,100
gave him a blessing and he
couldn't speak at six years old,

914
00:55:41,100 --> 00:55:42,600
and he immediately started
talking.

915
00:55:42,600 --> 00:55:45,600
I gave him a blessing and I've
seen people cure to cancer and

916
00:55:45,600 --> 00:55:48,900
I've seen skin grown back, you
know, minutes or hours after

917
00:55:48,900 --> 00:55:53,200
blessing, from from Burns and
from brown, recluse bites.

918
00:55:53,200 --> 00:55:57,600
And I've seen all these Slots of
Miracles, I believe this is a

919
00:55:57,600 --> 00:56:00,800
real thing in the doctors who
care about the doctors.

920
00:56:01,600 --> 00:56:03,200
Katie gonna give a blessing do
it right?

921
00:56:03,200 --> 00:56:07,800
You know, Joseph at one point
said, you've been in the gospel

922
00:56:07,800 --> 00:56:10,500
long enough, you shouldn't be
relying on the doctors, you

923
00:56:10,500 --> 00:56:12,900
should just be giving a faithful
blessing, and if they should

924
00:56:12,900 --> 00:56:16,700
just be healed, that's where we
should be at to be fair.

925
00:56:16,700 --> 00:56:19,500
Joseph, gave a blessing after
that, the person wasn't healed,

926
00:56:20,900 --> 00:56:24,500
but that sentiment was Heavy in
my mind and I just felt awful.

927
00:56:24,800 --> 00:56:27,600
I'm like, if this is my faith,
this is my fault.

928
00:56:28,900 --> 00:56:31,000
I don't have the faith to kill
my daughter.

929
00:56:31,600 --> 00:56:33,800
And having faith crisis, you
know.

930
00:56:35,600 --> 00:56:40,700
So about a week and a half into
the hospital.

931
00:56:40,800 --> 00:56:44,300
I've been praying really hard
and Anna.

932
00:56:44,300 --> 00:56:48,300
By this point, my daughter has
been gitis of the brain which

933
00:56:48,300 --> 00:56:51,200
can kill you.
She's got lung failure, she's on

934
00:56:51,200 --> 00:56:54,200
Longs for it.
She's had kidney failure,

935
00:56:54,500 --> 00:56:57,700
they're functioning like 10 to
20%, it's got liver.

936
00:56:57,700 --> 00:57:01,800
Failure is functioning 10, 20 %.
She's got the IC, which Luckily,

937
00:57:01,800 --> 00:57:03,500
his blood clots.
That's what that was, that

938
00:57:03,500 --> 00:57:05,400
purple stuff.
I got you.

939
00:57:05,700 --> 00:57:08,200
So that's like a scab underneath
the Skin.

940
00:57:08,200 --> 00:57:11,400
So to have that gone away, from
a blessing is a miracle by

941
00:57:11,400 --> 00:57:14,100
itself, but I didn't know what
that, you know, learning is,

942
00:57:14,100 --> 00:57:18,200
we're going on, she's on the
verge of heart failure, they're

943
00:57:18,200 --> 00:57:23,000
really worried her heart's going
to go and she's got meanwhile,

944
00:57:23,000 --> 00:57:26,800
she's got these purple blood
clots all over her body and her

945
00:57:26,800 --> 00:57:36,500
toes are turning black and And I
I'm, I'm upset. and I'm standing

946
00:57:36,500 --> 00:57:41,500
at the head of her bed and I'm
stroking her hair and There are

947
00:57:41,500 --> 00:57:44,300
other people coming in and out,
so I couldn't just give a

948
00:57:44,308 --> 00:57:46,700
blessing, but I would like one.
And I was like, I'm ready to

949
00:57:46,700 --> 00:57:48,300
give a blessing.
I need to give a blessing now,

950
00:57:49,100 --> 00:57:50,400
but people were coming in and
out.

951
00:57:50,400 --> 00:57:53,400
I didn't know how to nurse.
We please.

952
00:57:53,400 --> 00:57:58,400
Quit tending to my daughter.
Right, right, right.

953
00:57:58,400 --> 00:58:01,000
And family member, please go
away.

954
00:58:01,300 --> 00:58:05,100
I want you to support, you know.
I mean I just don't know what to

955
00:58:05,100 --> 00:58:06,900
do.
And I had this really strong

956
00:58:06,900 --> 00:58:08,700
impression.
Give a silent blessing.

957
00:58:09,900 --> 00:58:11,700
I can place a of it.
Never occurred to me.

958
00:58:11,707 --> 00:58:16,000
Give a sign of blessing before.
It's not that novel of an idea,

959
00:58:16,000 --> 00:58:20,700
but I just never occurred to me.
So I was like, okay, I can do

960
00:58:20,700 --> 00:58:23,000
this and I'm already at the head
of her bed, and she's got all

961
00:58:23,000 --> 00:58:26,600
this equipment, all over her.
You know, she can't.

962
00:58:27,100 --> 00:58:30,700
She's tiny with all these tubes
and face masks for her.

963
00:58:31,200 --> 00:58:34,700
She can't function or here, and
she's having hallucinations and

964
00:58:34,700 --> 00:58:38,800
stuff when she is awake.
And So I give her blessing and I

965
00:58:38,800 --> 00:58:43,500
basically said, I command your
brain to be healed.

966
00:58:43,800 --> 00:58:45,500
I command your heart to be
healed.

967
00:58:45,600 --> 00:58:48,600
I commend your lungs to be
healed and your kidneys to be

968
00:58:48,600 --> 00:58:50,700
healed, Commander, liver to be
healed.

969
00:58:51,300 --> 00:58:56,200
I command your blood to fix it.
So I don't never lasted, you

970
00:58:56,200 --> 00:58:58,700
know, work properly, put
clotting when it's not supposed

971
00:58:58,700 --> 00:59:03,300
to and and name of Jesus Christ.
Amen.

972
00:59:04,100 --> 00:59:08,200
Nothing happened.
I just stood there and she's

973
00:59:08,200 --> 00:59:13,200
asleep still, and I'm like and I
go back to work.

974
00:59:14,500 --> 00:59:17,000
And I feel kind of awful on the
way to work.

975
00:59:18,000 --> 00:59:20,600
It's a busiest day.
I think I've ever had in my

976
00:59:20,600 --> 00:59:24,400
whole life today.
Still that was like 10 years ago

977
00:59:25,600 --> 00:59:31,700
and I got a call from my wife
about 8:00 p.m. and she said

978
00:59:31,700 --> 00:59:33,900
I've got an update.
Well, not day to that point been

979
00:59:33,900 --> 00:59:35,700
like, oh, her liver failed
today.

980
00:59:36,300 --> 00:59:38,600
Oh, well, the kidneys be doing
better but now they're way

981
00:59:38,600 --> 00:59:41,300
worse.
And that's what an update was

982
00:59:41,300 --> 00:59:44,700
and I had been so busy.
I'd literally be get an instant

983
00:59:44,700 --> 00:59:47,200
not like 10 minutes, but like
the inside, get off the phone.

984
00:59:47,600 --> 00:59:49,900
I got an email, get a respond to
that because a text message

985
00:59:49,900 --> 00:59:53,500
responded that talk to my right
is my secretary get a file, get

986
00:59:53,500 --> 00:59:55,700
it out, sign something, do
something, you know, instant,

987
00:59:55,700 --> 00:59:57,600
I'm done with something
something else is on my desk.

988
00:59:57,600 --> 01:00:00,100
It's like All day.
No break.

989
01:00:00,500 --> 01:00:05,500
I think I work through lunch and
everything so it's 8:00 at night

990
01:00:05,500 --> 01:00:08,200
issue and she gives me this
phone call and I'm like, oh

991
01:00:08,200 --> 01:00:10,000
yeah, right my daughters in the
hospital.

992
01:00:10,500 --> 01:00:14,600
You know what's your update?
And she said, well, a little bit

993
01:00:14,600 --> 01:00:17,700
after you left the doctors,
thought that give her a test

994
01:00:17,700 --> 01:00:21,600
trial off of the lungs support.
See how she handled it and

995
01:00:21,600 --> 01:00:23,800
she's, they're moving her up
into normal room.

996
01:00:23,800 --> 01:00:27,700
She's no longer an emergency
care and they took off 10 of the

997
01:00:27,700 --> 01:00:28,900
12.
Forms of life, support.

998
01:00:28,900 --> 01:00:31,600
The only ones that are on there
still is antibiotics.

999
01:00:32,000 --> 01:00:37,100
Wow, and her numbers are
imperfect but they're they're

1000
01:00:37,100 --> 01:00:39,100
like, they don't, they can't
explain why there's so much

1001
01:00:39,100 --> 01:00:40,500
better.
Yeah.

1002
01:00:40,700 --> 01:00:48,900
And I was like, oh happy news,
you know, and that it just I was

1003
01:00:48,900 --> 01:00:51,900
so excited to go see her, you
know, and and there continue to

1004
01:00:51,900 --> 01:00:55,300
be some challenges and some
problems but those those things

1005
01:00:55,300 --> 01:01:04,500
were out of the woods and my
wife who had been I don't want

1006
01:01:04,500 --> 01:01:07,100
to pertain to - of life, but a
my perspective.

1007
01:01:07,100 --> 01:01:09,200
She's constantly kind of saying
you're Wicked.

1008
01:01:09,200 --> 01:01:13,500
And it's all the stuff is wrong
with you and, and, you know, and

1009
01:01:13,500 --> 01:01:15,900
her family, of course, is like
your wedding, could be an

1010
01:01:15,908 --> 01:01:21,300
apostate, so stuff, but my wife
was more just being critical

1011
01:01:21,300 --> 01:01:23,600
and, you know, you're not
spiritual like, you used to be

1012
01:01:23,600 --> 01:01:26,400
or whatever, you know, that's
sort of stuff, right?

1013
01:01:26,400 --> 01:01:30,200
And that had been really hard on
me, she called me up, and she

1014
01:01:30,200 --> 01:01:36,900
said, Drew I'm because you know
this healing is like huge.

1015
01:01:36,900 --> 01:01:39,900
Like the statistics statistics
of her surviving were like one

1016
01:01:39,900 --> 01:01:43,600
in five million.
I calculated it from several

1017
01:01:43,600 --> 01:01:48,000
doctor conversations because I
was I was I just wanted to

1018
01:01:48,008 --> 01:01:50,700
understand where we were at and
at one point I asked the lady

1019
01:01:50,700 --> 01:01:52,300
doctor.
What are the chances of her

1020
01:01:52,300 --> 01:01:54,100
survival?
And she said, every moment flip

1021
01:01:54,100 --> 01:01:57,400
a coin, And we don't know why
she's a life.

1022
01:01:59,100 --> 01:02:02,300
And, and so then all of sudden
she's on the mend.

1023
01:02:02,300 --> 01:02:06,100
And, you know, we're later
learned, she didn't, it was

1024
01:02:06,100 --> 01:02:08,300
about born without a spleen and
all this sort of stuff.

1025
01:02:09,600 --> 01:02:13,600
And I met my wife had been in my
estimation really critical of

1026
01:02:13,600 --> 01:02:15,500
me.
She said, I was just reading, I

1027
01:02:15,500 --> 01:02:17,000
think it's alma-ata, could be
wrong.

1028
01:02:17,200 --> 01:02:22,100
Sorry. 3rd Nephi 8.
Whatever.

1029
01:02:22,200 --> 01:02:25,600
That's probably wrong citation.
But anyway, it says he performed

1030
01:02:25,600 --> 01:02:27,800
Mighty Miracles, therefore, when
you his, a man of God.

1031
01:02:28,300 --> 01:02:33,000
And so, she kind of apologized
to me her brow hard on me, and I

1032
01:02:33,008 --> 01:02:35,000
was like, wow, that's really,
that's awesome.

1033
01:02:37,700 --> 01:02:41,400
All this, all this good news
and, you know, family healing on

1034
01:02:41,400 --> 01:02:43,100
top of what's going on with my
daughter.

1035
01:02:43,100 --> 01:02:44,700
And meanwhile, she's been
babysitting.

1036
01:02:44,700 --> 01:02:47,500
All my other wives kids being a
real gem that way.

1037
01:02:50,600 --> 01:02:55,900
It is that kind of experience.
I've had multiple times,

1038
01:02:55,900 --> 01:02:59,400
although that was the biggest
one for us, but it really

1039
01:02:59,400 --> 01:03:03,900
demonstrated the power of God is
still there.

1040
01:03:04,000 --> 01:03:09,400
You know, the priesthood is a
living breathing thing and he

1041
01:03:09,400 --> 01:03:16,300
honors that for purpose in him
and he He's still looking after

1042
01:03:16,600 --> 01:03:20,900
us and he's not saying, well,
here's a wicked guy and I'm not

1043
01:03:20,900 --> 01:03:22,800
going to answer his prayers.
Here's what we could guy, and

1044
01:03:22,800 --> 01:03:24,400
I'm not gonna honor his
priesthood, because he's an

1045
01:03:24,400 --> 01:03:27,300
apostate.
And, you know, it was very faith

1046
01:03:27,300 --> 01:03:31,100
and Firming, and I've continued
to have experiences like that,

1047
01:03:31,200 --> 01:03:35,200
and I wasn't having those
anymore in the church, you know?

1048
01:03:35,200 --> 01:03:37,100
And that's why, because it's not
the church's fault.

1049
01:03:37,100 --> 01:03:40,800
It was just I wasn't growing,
right.

1050
01:03:41,600 --> 01:03:46,700
I was getting closer to God
anymore and, and, you know, I

1051
01:03:47,000 --> 01:03:54,100
think those types of experiences
are kind of missing in in the,

1052
01:03:54,300 --> 01:03:56,800
in the dialogue about
fundamentalism.

1053
01:03:57,100 --> 01:04:00,700
They absolutely are I so this
was before, I was a

1054
01:04:00,707 --> 01:04:03,900
fundamentalist, but gosh, you're
so much of what you say that I

1055
01:04:03,900 --> 01:04:10,000
can person personally, relate to
me and My wife, my we adopted a

1056
01:04:10,000 --> 01:04:14,800
set of twins from my sister and
we were living in Maryland at

1057
01:04:14,800 --> 01:04:18,600
the time and she was back in
Boise and she had given birth to

1058
01:04:18,600 --> 01:04:22,600
these twins and they were just
in horrible shape, she was on

1059
01:04:22,600 --> 01:04:26,300
meth while they were in utero.
I mean it was it was a horror

1060
01:04:26,300 --> 01:04:29,100
show and we got the call while I
was in Maryland.

1061
01:04:29,900 --> 01:04:32,200
You know do you want them if you
don't want them whereas for him

1062
01:04:32,200 --> 01:04:36,200
up because we're going to have
yeah, their medical problems are

1063
01:04:36,200 --> 01:04:37,800
so overwhelming.
We don't feel comfortable

1064
01:04:37,800 --> 01:04:38,800
giving.
The family.

1065
01:04:39,100 --> 01:04:41,400
Anybody else other than family,
give them both of them.

1066
01:04:41,500 --> 01:04:45,200
I mean, yeah.
So we move back and we adopted

1067
01:04:45,200 --> 01:04:47,500
them.
But my daughter got the worst of

1068
01:04:47,500 --> 01:04:50,400
it.
Where her essentially, where her

1069
01:04:50,400 --> 01:04:53,400
large intestine was was where
her small intestine was supposed

1070
01:04:53,400 --> 01:04:55,600
to be.
So they actually had to go in

1071
01:04:55,600 --> 01:05:00,100
and like rework her stomach and
she didn't eat for the first six

1072
01:05:00,100 --> 01:05:02,400
months of her life.
She received every bit of her

1073
01:05:02,400 --> 01:05:06,100
nutrients through a PICC line
and we would try to feed her and

1074
01:05:06,100 --> 01:05:07,900
it would just come right back
up.

1075
01:05:08,000 --> 01:05:12,100
Up and the doctor when they
replace the PICC line for the

1076
01:05:12,100 --> 01:05:15,100
third time he said, look, here's
the deal.

1077
01:05:16,700 --> 01:05:19,800
If this gets infected again,
we're going to jerk the line.

1078
01:05:20,200 --> 01:05:23,100
Well when this gets infected
again, we're going to jerk the

1079
01:05:23,100 --> 01:05:25,200
line.
It's not like we weren't keeping

1080
01:05:25,200 --> 01:05:27,800
her clean.
It's just a matter of time

1081
01:05:27,800 --> 01:05:33,000
before bacteria gets in there.
Yeah, he said it's Sink or Swim

1082
01:05:33,000 --> 01:05:41,200
time and he said I'm going to go
hiking this weekend because I

1083
01:05:41,300 --> 01:05:42,900
and it was the first time I saw
dr.

1084
01:05:42,900 --> 01:05:44,400
Cry.
He said, because I can't be put

1085
01:05:44,400 --> 01:05:48,500
in that position anymore to have
to do this because I can't say

1086
01:05:48,500 --> 01:05:55,900
no to her. and so, We took her
home and sure enough, within two

1087
01:05:55,900 --> 01:06:03,800
days, it was infected again.
And they took the pic wine and I

1088
01:06:04,200 --> 01:06:07,100
it was the peak of the housing
market for land surveyors.

1089
01:06:07,100 --> 01:06:09,400
It was insanely busy.
Yeah.

1090
01:06:09,700 --> 01:06:12,000
And I called my buddy, and who I
worked for?

1091
01:06:12,000 --> 01:06:14,400
I said, look, I'm not going to
be in, I'll bring a laptop home

1092
01:06:14,400 --> 01:06:19,200
and do some work from home, but
she was just getting worse and

1093
01:06:19,200 --> 01:06:20,800
worse.
Every time she tried to eat it

1094
01:06:20,800 --> 01:06:26,100
would just come right back up
and the home health care nurse

1095
01:06:26,100 --> 01:06:28,500
came in and of course our
daughters dropping weight

1096
01:06:29,100 --> 01:06:35,500
exponentially. and she she said,
look, she said this This

1097
01:06:35,500 --> 01:06:37,800
probably isn't going to end the
way you want it to end.

1098
01:06:38,300 --> 01:06:45,600
And She said I think tomorrow if
if she hasn't gained much more

1099
01:06:45,600 --> 01:06:47,900
weight, we're going to call in
hospice to at least make her

1100
01:06:47,900 --> 01:06:52,800
comfortable.
And I just remember, just

1101
01:06:52,800 --> 01:06:57,700
feeling defeated Drew.
I had given her many blessings

1102
01:06:57,700 --> 01:07:00,100
via and feeling like it.
Why are, why is this not

1103
01:07:00,100 --> 01:07:01,100
working?
I'm failing.

1104
01:07:01,100 --> 01:07:03,600
I, you know, something's not
right.

1105
01:07:05,300 --> 01:07:10,200
And I remember like literally it
was 2:30 in the morning.

1106
01:07:10,200 --> 01:07:14,000
The home health care nurse was
going to be there at 8:00 in the

1107
01:07:14,000 --> 01:07:18,100
morning.
And we were living in Meridian

1108
01:07:18,100 --> 01:07:21,100
Idaho at the time.
And I remember, we have these

1109
01:07:21,100 --> 01:07:23,600
bay windows that looked out on
this empty field.

1110
01:07:23,600 --> 01:07:26,100
We were the last phase of the
subdivision.

1111
01:07:26,100 --> 01:07:33,200
We were in and, Our daughter was
fussing a really hard.

1112
01:07:33,400 --> 01:07:37,400
She was hungry and my poor wife,
she'd been up with her for so

1113
01:07:37,400 --> 01:07:39,600
much.
I said, I got her honey, I got

1114
01:07:39,600 --> 01:07:42,100
her.
So I took her downstairs and I

1115
01:07:42,100 --> 01:07:46,200
sat in front of those windows.
In our living room and I just

1116
01:07:46,200 --> 01:07:49,300
had her on my chest.
And I just remember, saying the

1117
01:07:49,300 --> 01:07:52,800
prayer to God, look, there's a
lot of things I can take.

1118
01:07:53,900 --> 01:07:57,300
I can take a lot of stuff but I
can't take this.

1119
01:07:57,800 --> 01:08:04,300
I I'm not strong enough to have
to bury a kid and I started to

1120
01:08:04,300 --> 01:08:09,400
kind of doze off and I've never
shared this story up with maybe

1121
01:08:09,400 --> 01:08:15,800
a handful of people before.
But it was about, it was about

1122
01:08:15,800 --> 01:08:21,500
3:15 in the morning and it was
as close to an audible voice as

1123
01:08:21,500 --> 01:08:26,200
I'd ever heard and it said she
needs something heavier.

1124
01:08:28,100 --> 01:08:33,899
And in that moment at 3:15 in
the morning, I knew exactly what

1125
01:08:33,899 --> 01:08:37,899
she needed.
She needed mashed potatoes and I

1126
01:08:37,899 --> 01:08:42,600
know that sounds dumb, but I ran
upstairs with her arms and I get

1127
01:08:42,600 --> 01:08:44,800
my wife.
I'm like we need mashed

1128
01:08:44,800 --> 01:08:47,800
potatoes.
And she's like, what in the hell

1129
01:08:47,800 --> 01:08:50,000
are you talking about?
It's three big feet.

1130
01:08:50,899 --> 01:08:54,700
I was like, trust me.
I know what I heard and so she's

1131
01:08:54,700 --> 01:08:57,100
like, well, we don't have any.
I'm like, take the The baby I'm

1132
01:08:57,100 --> 01:09:00,200
going to Winco.
I'll be back in a minute when Co

1133
01:09:00,200 --> 01:09:04,600
is just right around the corner.
So I mean, I, I was making like

1134
01:09:04,600 --> 01:09:07,800
the fat kid in gym class in
Holland but because, man, I was

1135
01:09:07,800 --> 01:09:12,899
in a hurry and I get home and I
start making my wife's, like,

1136
01:09:12,899 --> 01:09:15,399
what are you doing?
And I'm like, just just trust

1137
01:09:15,399 --> 01:09:16,600
me, right?
Just trust me.

1138
01:09:16,600 --> 01:09:19,200
I and I don't blame her because
I must have looked like a madman

1139
01:09:20,300 --> 01:09:23,600
and I, we mix these up, and I
said, help me get it Superior

1140
01:09:23,700 --> 01:09:28,399
right, but not too soupy and we
did And it was soupy enough, it

1141
01:09:28,399 --> 01:09:30,200
would actually get into a
bottle.

1142
01:09:30,200 --> 01:09:33,200
We had to cut the nipple a
little bit in the bottle, but it

1143
01:09:33,200 --> 01:09:37,899
was enough that she could get it
out and she drank she drank

1144
01:09:37,899 --> 01:09:42,800
probably four ounces.
And then she just like went limp

1145
01:09:43,600 --> 01:09:48,200
and I went, I just killed her.
I just killed her.

1146
01:09:48,600 --> 01:09:51,300
That was the first thought I
had, but she was still

1147
01:09:51,300 --> 01:09:52,800
breathing.
Uh-huh.

1148
01:09:53,000 --> 01:09:55,200
She was still breathing and they
were sleeping in our room at

1149
01:09:55,200 --> 01:09:59,100
that time because they had all
all sorts of monitors and we

1150
01:09:59,100 --> 01:10:02,800
wanted to be close.
And so I later down and that

1151
01:10:02,800 --> 01:10:08,800
whole night, I didn't sleep and
about 6:30, she woke back up and

1152
01:10:08,800 --> 01:10:13,100
she was hungry but she hadn't
thrown up and we fed her again.

1153
01:10:13,500 --> 01:10:16,300
And same thing.
She kept it down.

1154
01:10:16,400 --> 01:10:19,800
She went right.
Back to sleep, hour and a half

1155
01:10:19,800 --> 01:10:23,100
later than home health care
nurse shows up and she's gained

1156
01:10:23,100 --> 01:10:27,500
4 ounces.
And she's never looked back.

1157
01:10:29,200 --> 01:10:32,000
Sometimes I think we look at
blessings that don't work as

1158
01:10:32,000 --> 01:10:35,300
failed blessings or let me
rephrase that we see them.

1159
01:10:35,300 --> 01:10:38,600
It's not working, right?
We see them is not doing what

1160
01:10:38,600 --> 01:10:41,300
they're supposed to my first
thought when you were telling me

1161
01:10:41,300 --> 01:10:43,300
your story, maybe that first
blessing.

1162
01:10:43,300 --> 01:10:45,100
Got your daughter to the
hospital.

1163
01:10:46,000 --> 01:10:47,900
Yeah.
Who knows what that looks like?

1164
01:10:47,900 --> 01:10:50,800
Had you not given her a
blessing, right?

1165
01:10:51,100 --> 01:10:55,700
And maybe the the blessings that
I perceived failed for my Order.

1166
01:10:56,700 --> 01:11:00,200
We're simply prepare a Tory for
the final part.

1167
01:11:00,300 --> 01:11:03,600
I don't know.
Maybe it was some maybe they put

1168
01:11:03,600 --> 01:11:05,200
me in a revelatory state of
mind.

1169
01:11:05,200 --> 01:11:09,700
So I was at least open it
hearing when communication, did

1170
01:11:09,700 --> 01:11:11,700
come.
Yes, yeah.

1171
01:11:11,700 --> 01:11:17,100
Well, and like with me, it's
similar that the principal I saw

1172
01:11:17,100 --> 01:11:22,100
was he did something that I
could manifestly and undeniably,

1173
01:11:22,100 --> 01:11:24,700
say he just answered that
prayer.

1174
01:11:25,300 --> 01:11:28,200
But she's dying anyways.
Why would he do that?

1175
01:11:29,100 --> 01:11:32,400
What's going on here?
So I know he's answering prayer

1176
01:11:32,400 --> 01:11:35,200
but I also know he needs me to
step up.

1177
01:11:35,700 --> 01:11:38,400
He needs something to happen
here.

1178
01:11:39,400 --> 01:11:42,300
Otherwise my prayer because I
don't say that in, but I don't

1179
01:11:42,300 --> 01:11:44,100
think I've ever said that in
blessing a blessing to be healed

1180
01:11:44,100 --> 01:11:45,000
according to Faith, your
parents.

1181
01:11:45,000 --> 01:11:47,100
I've never said that before.
I haven't said it since, I don't

1182
01:11:47,100 --> 01:11:52,900
think, you know, it's just,
maybe I have, but I don't know

1183
01:11:52,900 --> 01:11:56,400
me, you know, it was meant to
come out like, that makes me

1184
01:11:56,400 --> 01:12:00,200
stop and say, okay, my faith
needs to step up.

1185
01:12:01,200 --> 01:12:03,400
I need to do something because
it's not good enough right now

1186
01:12:04,700 --> 01:12:06,600
and I would, but I wouldn't have
thought that without that

1187
01:12:06,600 --> 01:12:10,500
blessing I would, I don't know
what I would have thought right

1188
01:12:10,500 --> 01:12:14,300
now you know, because it changed
my life forever but I probably

1189
01:12:14,300 --> 01:12:17,500
would have thought something
different and did prepare me to

1190
01:12:17,500 --> 01:12:21,900
introspect and did prepare me to
be desperate and to say, okay I

1191
01:12:22,000 --> 01:12:25,500
need to take some accountability
here because that's what I was

1192
01:12:25,500 --> 01:12:29,400
inspired to say and you know,
that that cushiony.

1193
01:12:30,000 --> 01:12:34,600
So I didn't see it as a failed
blessing for very long.

1194
01:12:35,400 --> 01:12:38,300
Even when I did, have that some
of that perspective, I was You

1195
01:12:38,300 --> 01:12:41,900
can say well but he that was a
miracle.

1196
01:12:41,900 --> 01:12:44,100
I mean I know what that is.
That was a scab underneath the

1197
01:12:44,100 --> 01:12:47,600
skin and it's gone in an instant
that doesn't happen.

1198
01:12:48,200 --> 01:12:53,800
That was a miracle but why what?
You know and in the part of the

1199
01:12:53,800 --> 01:12:57,800
story I didn't tell is when
everything was done and she's

1200
01:12:57,900 --> 01:13:00,800
you know she's quote healthy,
I'm making it a lot, simpler

1201
01:13:00,800 --> 01:13:06,400
story, you know her toes were
still traveling and I thought I

1202
01:13:06,400 --> 01:13:08,500
forgot.
I'm such a Idiot.

1203
01:13:08,500 --> 01:13:11,800
I forgot to pray for tones if I
would have done it at the time,

1204
01:13:12,100 --> 01:13:15,600
she read all the way.
So then I'm like okay I need the

1205
01:13:15,600 --> 01:13:18,400
spirit of healing upon me again
and I just kept praying for that

1206
01:13:18,400 --> 01:13:21,600
for weeks until finally the
doctor said if you don't cut

1207
01:13:21,600 --> 01:13:23,300
them off.
Now we're going to have to cut

1208
01:13:23,300 --> 01:13:29,800
off at the hip and as like you
know, he's a got to get Faith,

1209
01:13:29,800 --> 01:13:33,300
do we got to do it and we
finally swallowed and that was a

1210
01:13:33,308 --> 01:13:37,900
horrific experience.
But yeah, at the end of the day,

1211
01:13:38,100 --> 01:13:41,200
Everything else was healed and
so I was like, for a while that

1212
01:13:41,200 --> 01:13:46,800
was again, my failure.
But as like no, you know, if, if

1213
01:13:46,800 --> 01:13:51,300
that was meant to be that
wouldn't have been forgotten if

1214
01:13:51,300 --> 01:13:53,900
that was, you know, it's not,
like, I healed her.

1215
01:13:54,000 --> 01:13:58,300
Anyways, you know, if I screwed
up in the blessing, that's on

1216
01:13:58,300 --> 01:14:00,500
him and he could have fixed it
did, right?

1217
01:14:00,500 --> 01:14:06,100
So anyway, I think it's humans
and especially as men we

1218
01:14:06,100 --> 01:14:12,200
weekend.
We can to take those things on a

1219
01:14:12,208 --> 01:14:15,300
little bit and I think it's
healthy and some respect.

1220
01:14:15,700 --> 01:14:18,700
I want to say that.
I think that's part of manhood.

1221
01:14:18,700 --> 01:14:21,700
Probably a little bit growing.
Yeah.

1222
01:14:22,000 --> 01:14:27,300
But I'll say this too.
Because we do have that and it

1223
01:14:27,300 --> 01:14:29,800
is good.
There's also a downside to that

1224
01:14:29,800 --> 01:14:34,500
which is Sometimes we have this
idea of how things are supposed

1225
01:14:34,500 --> 01:14:38,400
to look, right?
And we don't know the ends from

1226
01:14:38,400 --> 01:14:41,200
the beginning.
Hell we're lucky if we get a

1227
01:14:41,200 --> 01:14:44,200
glimpse of what's in the middle,
right?

1228
01:14:44,300 --> 01:14:47,900
Yeah.
And and so we I think we tend to

1229
01:14:47,900 --> 01:14:54,200
want to tell God how things
should be right and we don't see

1230
01:14:54,200 --> 01:14:56,900
what happens on the other side
of the veil and we don't

1231
01:14:56,900 --> 01:15:00,100
remember what we promised we
would do when we got here.

1232
01:15:01,300 --> 01:15:05,500
And so, sometimes I think we
take undue failure upon

1233
01:15:05,500 --> 01:15:09,600
ourselves.
Yeah, because what we view as a

1234
01:15:09,600 --> 01:15:12,700
failure now.
Well, I I could be a great big

1235
01:15:12,700 --> 01:15:15,900
blessing.
And in the end you ever hear

1236
01:15:15,900 --> 01:15:20,200
that proverb about the about the
Chinese village wise, man.

1237
01:15:21,600 --> 01:15:23,900
I've heard a couple about 10
years, those Weisman.

1238
01:15:24,600 --> 01:15:31,200
So there's there's a village
wise man in and this boy, he's

1239
01:15:31,200 --> 01:15:33,400
been wanting a horse his whole
life.

1240
01:15:33,400 --> 01:15:35,800
And finally, the boy gets a
horse and he goes to the wise

1241
01:15:35,800 --> 01:15:37,700
and people go.
The wise, man, they say, isn't

1242
01:15:37,700 --> 01:15:39,700
it?
Great, you got a horse said,

1243
01:15:39,700 --> 01:15:43,800
we'll see, we'll see ya.
Boy gets bucked off the horse

1244
01:15:43,800 --> 01:15:47,200
and he breaks his arm and, and
they go to the, the wise, man,

1245
01:15:47,200 --> 01:15:49,400
they say, isn't it horrible?
He broke his arm and he says,

1246
01:15:49,700 --> 01:15:52,400
we'll see.
Or breaks out.

1247
01:15:52,400 --> 01:15:55,200
But the young man can't fight in
it because his arms broke.

1248
01:15:55,400 --> 01:15:57,200
They said, isn't it great that
he doesn't have to fight in the

1249
01:15:57,200 --> 01:15:58,700
war?
And he says, we'll see.

1250
01:15:59,200 --> 01:16:02,900
And I think sometimes not
sometimes I think a lot of our

1251
01:16:02,900 --> 01:16:05,200
lives are much like that, right?
Yeah.

1252
01:16:05,300 --> 01:16:08,900
We have a desired outcome, but
we don't know what all that

1253
01:16:08,900 --> 01:16:12,600
desired outcome and Tails and we
don't know what strength someone

1254
01:16:12,600 --> 01:16:18,000
will gain from adversity.
Or what connection or yeah?

1255
01:16:18,100 --> 01:16:19,200
Definitely.
Exactly.

1256
01:16:19,200 --> 01:16:22,300
Yeah.
So how did you get into writing

1257
01:16:22,300 --> 01:16:24,600
books?
I mean, obviously, the atom God

1258
01:16:24,600 --> 01:16:26,100
Doctrine.
Was that kind of the, the

1259
01:16:26,600 --> 01:16:29,600
opinion of the, the, the
Catalyst, if you will for

1260
01:16:29,600 --> 01:16:32,000
writing.
Yes, sort of.

1261
01:16:32,000 --> 01:16:38,500
Yeah, you know, let me think.
I'm trying to remember what came

1262
01:16:38,500 --> 01:16:41,300
first because it didn't occur to
me until this very moment.

1263
01:16:42,400 --> 01:16:44,900
So I took a creative writing
course in high school.

1264
01:16:45,200 --> 01:16:48,400
Okay.
And and my teacher told me, she

1265
01:16:48,400 --> 01:16:52,600
just she said, you know, Drew
I'm starting a new course.

1266
01:16:52,600 --> 01:16:56,700
I want you to take it because I
really think you've got a talent

1267
01:16:56,700 --> 01:17:00,500
here, but you don't know because
you haven't explored it.

1268
01:17:01,500 --> 01:17:04,700
And you know, when you're a
teenage kid, somebody tells you

1269
01:17:04,700 --> 01:17:09,200
that you're like okay, okay.
I took a course I loved it.

1270
01:17:09,300 --> 01:17:15,100
I love creative writing.
And so I was interested in it

1271
01:17:16,000 --> 01:17:21,800
and and but I just never really
pursued it because it's a lame

1272
01:17:21,800 --> 01:17:25,200
career right?
You know I'm going to make any

1273
01:17:25,200 --> 01:17:29,500
money that I grew up super,
super poor and you to it was I

1274
01:17:29,500 --> 01:17:32,200
was encouraged the like you get
the only way you're getting out

1275
01:17:32,200 --> 01:17:37,900
of this poverty is if you get
good grades that was before you

1276
01:17:37,900 --> 01:17:40,800
know the modern thing where that
changed back whenever I was a

1277
01:17:40,808 --> 01:17:43,500
kid that was true.
You want a good job, you better

1278
01:17:43,500 --> 01:17:48,200
go to college for the most part
and so I got a lot of great and

1279
01:17:48,600 --> 01:17:51,500
you know, that was that's what
you going to do to make money

1280
01:17:51,500 --> 01:17:57,300
and I was the very first class
graduating where we weren't kind

1281
01:17:57,300 --> 01:18:01,100
of guarantee good jobs.
There was a smaller percentage

1282
01:18:01,100 --> 01:18:05,300
of people getting good jobs than
ever before and getting jobs and

1283
01:18:05,300 --> 01:18:07,600
it can open it wasn't the
easiest path for me.

1284
01:18:08,100 --> 01:18:12,100
And my very first set of things
was all about how to prosecute.

1285
01:18:12,200 --> 01:18:14,500
Polygamists that stuff like, you
know seminars.

1286
01:18:17,400 --> 01:18:21,200
So so, you know, writing, Adam
got teachings.

1287
01:18:22,300 --> 01:18:26,800
I was really putting my neck on
the line because I'd gone to a

1288
01:18:26,800 --> 01:18:29,500
seminar and they said, you know,
we're not really Prosecuting

1289
01:18:29,500 --> 01:18:33,900
polygamist generally speaking.
But if you find anybody, that's

1290
01:18:33,900 --> 01:18:38,900
taken an oath of an office, you
know, police officer and mayor a

1291
01:18:38,900 --> 01:18:41,700
judge and attorney we're going
to nail them to the wall.

1292
01:18:44,100 --> 01:18:47,900
So writing, Adam God teachings.
Is not saying I'm a polygamist

1293
01:18:47,900 --> 01:18:51,100
but it's kind of hinting to get
to it.

1294
01:18:51,100 --> 01:18:53,600
Yeah, you're tipping your hand a
little.

1295
01:18:53,900 --> 01:18:57,700
Yeah.
And and so it was, it was

1296
01:18:57,700 --> 01:19:05,300
intimidating from that level.
and, Yeah, but I just felt like

1297
01:19:05,300 --> 01:19:09,700
I had to.
And then the next book that

1298
01:19:09,700 --> 01:19:14,200
wrote, Simon time exploring a
little bit, my head while you're

1299
01:19:14,200 --> 01:19:15,500
good.
I'm asking that question.

1300
01:19:15,900 --> 01:19:18,900
Next book, I wrote with
silencing Mormon polygamy and

1301
01:19:19,800 --> 01:19:22,700
and that was kind of an
accident.

1302
01:19:22,700 --> 01:19:24,500
I wasn't intending to write that
book either.

1303
01:19:24,600 --> 01:19:29,600
I was asked to teach an Elders
Quorum, it was a large Quorum

1304
01:19:30,400 --> 01:19:33,600
class about the 1886, Revelation
to John Taylor.

1305
01:19:34,500 --> 01:19:38,900
And from an attorney's
perspective.

1306
01:19:40,200 --> 01:19:44,400
So I was like, okay I know
almost nothing about this.

1307
01:19:44,700 --> 01:19:50,200
So I went and got Max Anderson's
original manuscript that he did

1308
01:19:50,200 --> 01:19:53,800
before his manuscripts like this
freaking big and his books along

1309
01:19:53,800 --> 01:19:57,700
isn't it was really thick and
there's a lot of good

1310
01:19:57,700 --> 01:20:02,400
information in it.
And from what I hear, basically

1311
01:20:02,400 --> 01:20:04,700
Marquis Peterson said, get rid
of all that crap.

1312
01:20:04,700 --> 01:20:07,100
It makes us look bad.
And this is the book you're

1313
01:20:07,100 --> 01:20:10,700
supposed to, right?
And it It was Tiny and Crown.

1314
01:20:11,500 --> 01:20:14,100
Meanwhile Brian C.
Hales is writing his stuff

1315
01:20:14,100 --> 01:20:18,400
against Lauren, see Willie and
and when Bishop wrote that book

1316
01:20:18,400 --> 01:20:22,500
1886 or something and and it's
the I just got everything I

1317
01:20:22,500 --> 01:20:26,300
could and started reading it and
started doing this Elders Quorum

1318
01:20:26,300 --> 01:20:30,000
class.
Well I had notes that I was

1319
01:20:30,000 --> 01:20:33,400
using to teach the class and
after class I kept having men

1320
01:20:33,400 --> 01:20:36,200
come up to me and saying can we
get a copy of your notes?

1321
01:20:37,000 --> 01:20:42,700
And I'm like, sure.
Next thing I know, I've been

1322
01:20:42,700 --> 01:20:46,900
requested and produced 500
copies of my notes for that

1323
01:20:46,900 --> 01:20:51,400
class.
And I'm like, this is insane.

1324
01:20:51,800 --> 01:20:55,900
Like, people don't know very
much about this and they want to

1325
01:20:55,900 --> 01:21:01,500
know a lot more.
And so at this point, like every

1326
01:21:01,500 --> 01:21:07,200
week, I'm going to Kinko's, and
having my notes found and, and

1327
01:21:07,200 --> 01:21:10,500
I'm like, this is stupid, you
know, and frankly, my notes

1328
01:21:10,500 --> 01:21:13,600
weren't that good, which is
annoying because Brian, see,

1329
01:21:13,600 --> 01:21:17,200
Hills got a copy of a and
responded online.

1330
01:21:17,200 --> 01:21:20,000
As if this was my final
Published book and these were

1331
01:21:20,000 --> 01:21:25,100
just and and so he's like,
there's no Citation for this,

1332
01:21:25,100 --> 01:21:27,800
but he says this, I'm like, come
on and he knew better.

1333
01:21:27,800 --> 01:21:31,100
Like I talked to him before he
responded to it, I said respond

1334
01:21:31,100 --> 01:21:33,600
to silence a Mormon polygamy,
that's the book.

1335
01:21:33,900 --> 01:21:36,300
The notes are just for elders,
Quorum, you have, until you put

1336
01:21:36,300 --> 01:21:38,900
it out there, it's your problem.
So I'm like whatever.

1337
01:21:39,900 --> 01:21:42,500
So the notes weren't tight, they
weren't good, but people were

1338
01:21:42,500 --> 01:21:45,900
desperate for them.
And so I said, I need, I need to

1339
01:21:45,900 --> 01:21:52,700
write this book and And so, I
did, and she's see, I told you I

1340
01:21:52,700 --> 01:21:59,900
was long-winded so so I okay.
Here's my situation.

1341
01:21:59,900 --> 01:22:03,800
I'm at work and I've decided to
write this book and I've got all

1342
01:22:03,800 --> 01:22:08,800
my notes, and I put everything
together and, and I'm broke.

1343
01:22:09,600 --> 01:22:13,000
I'm like, desperate behind at
the office.

1344
01:22:13,000 --> 01:22:16,400
Like, people think all attorneys
are rich, but we have a lot of

1345
01:22:16,400 --> 01:22:20,500
expenses and I Solo practitioner
because if I practice with

1346
01:22:20,500 --> 01:22:24,000
somebody else and got found out
as polygamist it would win their

1347
01:22:24,000 --> 01:22:25,900
career.
And that's not fair of me.

1348
01:22:25,900 --> 01:22:28,500
So I just stayed on my own and
it's super hard to do that.

1349
01:22:29,300 --> 01:22:32,700
So I'm behind and I'm getting
about six thousand dollars

1350
01:22:32,700 --> 01:22:37,200
behind it office like I need six
grand now to make my bills and

1351
01:22:37,200 --> 01:22:43,300
I'm like not making my bills so
but I don't have any work

1352
01:22:43,300 --> 01:22:44,900
either.
Like nothing's coming through my

1353
01:22:44,900 --> 01:22:47,900
door except for this hundred
dollar gig whatever.

1354
01:22:48,700 --> 01:22:51,700
And so I started off my day and
I'm like, alright well I'm just

1355
01:22:51,700 --> 01:22:55,100
going to write this book then
and then I'll buy afternoon,

1356
01:22:55,100 --> 01:22:57,100
I'll work on what I've got and
that's plenty of time.

1357
01:22:57,100 --> 01:23:01,100
So that's what I was doing.
But every time I started working

1358
01:23:01,200 --> 01:23:03,300
as an attorney, I would get
distracted.

1359
01:23:03,300 --> 01:23:04,900
Next thing I know I've got all
my notes out.

1360
01:23:04,900 --> 01:23:07,500
I'm writing the book again.
I'm like, what the heck am I

1361
01:23:07,500 --> 01:23:09,200
mom?
Who's my secretary time?

1362
01:23:09,200 --> 01:23:12,500
She's like Drew, you know, you
realize how far behind we are

1363
01:23:12,500 --> 01:23:15,300
gonna eat you button here and
start working and I'm like, yeah

1364
01:23:15,300 --> 01:23:18,300
yeah you know that's all gonna
make me 50 bucks and Just

1365
01:23:18,600 --> 01:23:21,300
everybody penny counts.
I'm like no it doesn't it's not

1366
01:23:21,300 --> 01:23:25,200
enough.
And next thing I know I'm you

1367
01:23:25,200 --> 01:23:27,700
know if she gives me the file on
working on it next thing I know

1368
01:23:27,700 --> 01:23:30,800
it's outside of my desk happen
ished and I'm writing a footnote

1369
01:23:30,800 --> 01:23:33,200
and I'm cross referencing
something and fixing something

1370
01:23:33,200 --> 01:23:37,700
that's not quite right and I
can't stop and this happens for

1371
01:23:37,700 --> 01:23:41,700
weeks like three weeks, two and
a half week, I don't know and

1372
01:23:41,700 --> 01:23:46,000
I'm I'm at this point realizing
I need six thousand dollars.

1373
01:23:46,000 --> 01:23:49,800
Now it's not for the whole A
month, it's just nothing's come

1374
01:23:49,800 --> 01:23:52,300
in and I need it.
Now, I'd like three days or

1375
01:23:52,300 --> 01:23:56,100
something, you know, it's
probably more like a week when I

1376
01:23:56,100 --> 01:23:59,000
had that realization.
That I'm almost done with the

1377
01:23:59,000 --> 01:24:04,700
book and I finish it and I pray
and this is how I am with all

1378
01:24:04,700 --> 01:24:07,200
my, all my books but this is the
only one I've had experience

1379
01:24:07,200 --> 01:24:09,100
like this.
I'm like, I'm done.

1380
01:24:09,800 --> 01:24:12,800
The book is finished.
Do you want me to change

1381
01:24:12,800 --> 01:24:16,300
anything?
And, you know, and I've had

1382
01:24:16,300 --> 01:24:20,700
experiences doing that for For,
he's like this section, you came

1383
01:24:20,700 --> 01:24:23,800
across really biased.
You need to go talk about the

1384
01:24:23,800 --> 01:24:28,000
other side here.
More or you didn't address this

1385
01:24:28,000 --> 01:24:31,800
detail and it should be in a
footnote and look at least or

1386
01:24:31,800 --> 01:24:33,600
whatever.
I just get direction like that

1387
01:24:33,600 --> 01:24:35,400
and I'll go fix.
What's not, right?

1388
01:24:35,400 --> 01:24:38,200
So I'm waiting for him to tell
me this ain't right.

1389
01:24:38,300 --> 01:24:43,600
You know, instead he says, I
want you to add three chapters

1390
01:24:43,600 --> 01:24:49,500
to the beginning.
That's like six thousand dollars

1391
01:24:49,700 --> 01:24:55,100
in like a week now, or three or
four days and I'm done.

1392
01:24:58,100 --> 01:25:00,600
But at the same time, I'm like,
that's a great idea.

1393
01:25:01,100 --> 01:25:03,200
I hadn't considered even
throwing that stuff in there.

1394
01:25:03,200 --> 01:25:06,800
Provides a great context for all
of the academic stuff, I just

1395
01:25:06,800 --> 01:25:10,700
did and it makes it more of a
book instead of a paper.

1396
01:25:10,900 --> 01:25:13,800
I mean, it was long but you
know, it doesn't read as this

1397
01:25:13,800 --> 01:25:18,100
academic treatise.
And I put it in there and it

1398
01:25:18,100 --> 01:25:21,000
felt so good.
It came together, super fast,

1399
01:25:21,000 --> 01:25:24,400
I'd already had all the research
done for something else, put

1400
01:25:24,400 --> 01:25:26,800
together really fast, and I said
the same prayer again.

1401
01:25:26,900 --> 01:25:29,700
And he said, you need to add a
chapter on Legend, the

1402
01:25:29,700 --> 01:25:34,900
priesthood and, and in this area
and that's just a label or

1403
01:25:35,100 --> 01:25:37,500
frankly, would I live
differently, if I was going to

1404
01:25:37,500 --> 01:25:40,100
do it now, but there was a quote
that talked about the priesthood

1405
01:25:40,100 --> 01:25:42,400
of Elijah's, so I called it
that.

1406
01:25:43,200 --> 01:25:48,600
Um, and it was dumb.
And and and I put it, I had my

1407
01:25:48,600 --> 01:25:51,100
own publishing company.
So I just started Printing and

1408
01:25:51,200 --> 01:25:54,700
getting things ready and I had a
client walk in the door.

1409
01:25:55,900 --> 01:26:00,900
And he basically in a nutshell
said I've been super successful.

1410
01:26:00,900 --> 01:26:03,200
I don't know why, I don't know
what I'm doing, but I've been

1411
01:26:03,200 --> 01:26:05,800
told to see an attorney and get
my business structure set forth

1412
01:26:05,800 --> 01:26:09,700
in my Estate Planning.
And I want, you know, all the

1413
01:26:09,700 --> 01:26:13,400
sudden, he described this
elaborate huge amount of

1414
01:26:13,400 --> 01:26:15,300
corporate structure that he
wanted for all these different

1415
01:26:15,300 --> 01:26:17,600
businesses.
The more he talked and the more

1416
01:26:17,600 --> 01:26:24,700
estate planning he needed done
was, is a lot of stuff and he

1417
01:26:24,700 --> 01:26:26,500
threw down 11.
Dollars that day.

1418
01:26:27,100 --> 01:26:32,600
And and I'll said, you know, I
want all this stuff done.

1419
01:26:32,700 --> 01:26:35,900
Get it done.
And I was like, holy flip.

1420
01:26:36,400 --> 01:26:41,200
Yeah.
And he'll and the manner of

1421
01:26:41,200 --> 01:26:43,400
stuff that he wanted.
I was able to work through

1422
01:26:43,400 --> 01:26:46,600
pretty quickly.
I mean, relatively speaking and

1423
01:26:46,600 --> 01:26:48,700
my secretary was able to do a
lot of it.

1424
01:26:49,900 --> 01:26:52,600
So I was able to take care of
you know getting The Binding

1425
01:26:52,600 --> 01:26:55,900
done and hiring the person who
did the hardcover and You know,

1426
01:26:55,900 --> 01:26:59,200
just stuff like that and and
take care of all those all those

1427
01:26:59,200 --> 01:27:06,200
ends and I had extra money and
and and so I started feeling

1428
01:27:06,200 --> 01:27:08,300
pretty supported and what I was
doing.

1429
01:27:08,500 --> 01:27:13,800
Oh yeah.
And then I have some spiritual

1430
01:27:13,800 --> 01:27:15,900
experiences for said I want you
to write this book and I want

1431
01:27:15,900 --> 01:27:19,200
you to do this and and then that
kind of quit.

1432
01:27:20,600 --> 01:27:23,700
And meanwhile I started writing
science fiction fantasy for

1433
01:27:23,700 --> 01:27:27,200
totally different reasons and on
the side I'm that's just that

1434
01:27:27,200 --> 01:27:29,400
between the two of them kept me.
Very, very busy.

1435
01:27:30,200 --> 01:27:35,000
And I felt for a while.
Like okay, I put out those 57

1436
01:27:35,000 --> 01:27:36,400
books, whether depends on how
you call it.

1437
01:27:36,400 --> 01:27:38,100
I did two volumes ancient near
Eastern Long.

1438
01:27:38,100 --> 01:27:41,800
Law school with Jean Welch and
does that really count?

1439
01:27:41,800 --> 01:27:45,300
And you know what?
You know, 50 page paper on

1440
01:27:45,300 --> 01:27:47,600
deuteronomic law in the Book of
Mormon and, you know, whatever

1441
01:27:47,700 --> 01:27:53,300
does that count.
So but I kind of felt like I'm

1442
01:27:53,300 --> 01:27:59,300
only really interested in
writing a Books that there are

1443
01:27:59,300 --> 01:28:01,300
Urgent.
I didn't feel like compelled to

1444
01:28:01,300 --> 01:28:05,500
write like right now.
Like I've done a ancient

1445
01:28:05,500 --> 01:28:11,600
Christian traditions and beliefs
on the Nativity and completely

1446
01:28:11,600 --> 01:28:14,500
changes how we see the birth of
Christ.

1447
01:28:14,500 --> 01:28:19,200
And the circumstances were
happened and I'm like, almost

1448
01:28:19,200 --> 01:28:21,500
done for 10 years, but haven't
published it.

1449
01:28:21,900 --> 01:28:25,700
And I did a poetic version of
DNC.

1450
01:28:25,700 --> 01:28:28,500
To the original with massive
amount of annotations, which I

1451
01:28:28,500 --> 01:28:33,400
had for free on my website, but
my websites down, so awesome

1452
01:28:33,400 --> 01:28:37,100
stuff there.
And I really interested in

1453
01:28:37,100 --> 01:28:40,100
Mormon, reincarnation,
teachings, and dissolution,

1454
01:28:40,100 --> 01:28:43,100
second death, and all those
types of teachings and eternal

1455
01:28:43,100 --> 01:28:47,600
progression.
What did they really take a lot

1456
01:28:47,600 --> 01:28:49,700
of rumors.
A lot of out of context things

1457
01:28:49,700 --> 01:28:54,700
and a lot of speculation.
And, but nothing's really well

1458
01:28:54,700 --> 01:29:00,500
organised and And I wanted to
write that but it's just kept

1459
01:29:00,500 --> 01:29:06,100
getting distracted, you know,
anyway, it's I moved to Missouri

1460
01:29:06,600 --> 01:29:12,700
and and there's some people
there that are Mormon, but not

1461
01:29:12,700 --> 01:29:17,000
Mormon AB, but there's a small
group of people that I

1462
01:29:17,000 --> 01:29:20,400
associated with and some of them
were kind of mainstream

1463
01:29:20,400 --> 01:29:24,800
fundamentalist and some of them
were Joseph.

1464
01:29:24,800 --> 01:29:26,800
I'd spit didn't always Really
believe we're Joseph caught

1465
01:29:26,800 --> 01:29:30,600
either, you know.
And one day I was, I was talking

1466
01:29:30,600 --> 01:29:35,500
to somebody and I had mentioned
a quote for some, some teaching

1467
01:29:35,500 --> 01:29:37,000
about Jesus being our elder
brother.

1468
01:29:38,200 --> 01:29:42,400
He said, Jesus is not our elder
brother and he said, I said,

1469
01:29:42,400 --> 01:29:44,400
what are you talking about?
Joseph, clearly taught that you

1470
01:29:44,400 --> 01:29:46,000
believe in Joseph.
He said Joseph, never taught

1471
01:29:46,000 --> 01:29:49,500
that it's unscriptural, it's not
doctrinal, and Joseph never

1472
01:29:49,500 --> 01:29:52,300
would have caught it.
And I was like, Wow.

1473
01:29:55,500 --> 01:30:00,000
But then I looked and and
started finding some quotes for

1474
01:30:00,000 --> 01:30:03,800
him because he said you can't
find any and, you know to me,

1475
01:30:03,800 --> 01:30:05,600
isn't that good demic?
I'm like, okay, I've got a

1476
01:30:05,608 --> 01:30:07,000
database.
I've been working on for

1477
01:30:07,000 --> 01:30:09,500
decades.
I'm trying to find it and give

1478
01:30:09,500 --> 01:30:11,700
it to you, you know?
And I was shocked.

1479
01:30:11,700 --> 01:30:16,200
I found very few quotes were
Joseph clearly said Jesus is our

1480
01:30:16,200 --> 01:30:20,000
older brother.
I only found four and it was a

1481
01:30:20,008 --> 01:30:21,600
quick search.
I didn't go through my entire

1482
01:30:21,600 --> 01:30:24,900
database and I didn't search
diligently, but I was shocked

1483
01:30:24,900 --> 01:30:26,200
how a few times.
He said it.

1484
01:30:26,600 --> 01:30:31,600
The definitive when I found was
in a king fall, at recording of

1485
01:30:32,500 --> 01:30:37,100
the recording of the king
Follett discourse by this man's

1486
01:30:37,100 --> 01:30:40,800
great, great, great, great
grandpa that wasn't published in

1487
01:30:40,800 --> 01:30:42,900
the words of Joseph Smith but
was in the CD-ROM version.

1488
01:30:44,500 --> 01:30:48,800
So and it was awesome.
It Other new doctrines to it's

1489
01:30:48,800 --> 01:30:50,400
like, you know, just stuff like
this.

1490
01:30:50,400 --> 01:30:53,900
It's you know, it's like, wow, I
found all this stuff in one

1491
01:30:53,900 --> 01:30:55,000
quotes.
Pretty awesome.

1492
01:30:56,900 --> 01:30:59,900
But anyway, the way I'm reason,
I mentioned that in context of

1493
01:30:59,900 --> 01:31:03,300
your question of what got me
into writing is, I started

1494
01:31:03,300 --> 01:31:06,400
saying, I don't know the
teachings and Joseph, as well as

1495
01:31:06,400 --> 01:31:09,400
I thought I did.
What I know, is the whole

1496
01:31:09,400 --> 01:31:13,000
housing of Mormon
fundamentalism, but who taught,

1497
01:31:13,000 --> 01:31:16,100
which part of it.
It didn't matter to me because I

1498
01:31:16,100 --> 01:31:20,200
was looking for truth, not just
with Joseph, bring in top,

1499
01:31:20,200 --> 01:31:25,500
right?
So that put me on a track that

1500
01:31:25,500 --> 01:31:28,300
to write five volumes of Joseph
Smith teachings, that are not in

1501
01:31:28,300 --> 01:31:29,800
the teachings of the Prophet
Joseph Smith.

1502
01:31:30,600 --> 01:31:32,300
And so that's what I've been
working on.

1503
01:31:32,300 --> 01:31:36,400
Now, what, so, how long have you
been working on that now?

1504
01:31:38,900 --> 01:31:42,000
I don't know.
So are you familiar with the

1505
01:31:42,000 --> 01:31:45,800
book, remembering Joseph?
And I Am David McCullough.

1506
01:31:46,300 --> 01:31:48,900
I highly recommend it to
anybody.

1507
01:31:49,600 --> 01:31:53,300
McConkey says openly just in
spirit of his uncle or grandpa

1508
01:31:53,300 --> 01:31:56,400
or dad, or whoever he is Bruce
are become Keen.

1509
01:31:56,400 --> 01:31:59,800
Oh well this is obviously
incorrect teaching because it

1510
01:31:59,800 --> 01:32:01,700
goes against what the modern
prophets teach.

1511
01:32:01,700 --> 01:32:04,300
So Joseph didn't teach this.
Don't put that in your book

1512
01:32:04,400 --> 01:32:08,800
fair.
But other than some of that it

1513
01:32:08,800 --> 01:32:12,600
is a fabulous resource.
The book is pretty thick but the

1514
01:32:12,600 --> 01:32:15,100
CD-ROM version I'm guessing, I
don't know.

1515
01:32:15,100 --> 01:32:19,000
I would guess it be 900 Pages if
it was published and it's just

1516
01:32:19,200 --> 01:32:22,200
people telling their experience
knowing Joseph Smith and what he

1517
01:32:22,200 --> 01:32:26,900
taught.
Well I think this is about two

1518
01:32:26,900 --> 01:32:32,400
years ago and I said this was a
huge spiritual experience for

1519
01:32:32,400 --> 01:32:34,500
me.
Reading this CD-ROM, I mean it

1520
01:32:34,500 --> 01:32:38,900
took forever.
And I'd marked up the book

1521
01:32:38,900 --> 01:32:43,900
already and then I decided I
want I'm getting use the CD-ROM

1522
01:32:43,900 --> 01:32:46,700
to create some other resources
database and stuff like this.

1523
01:32:47,600 --> 01:32:50,200
And as I did, I was like, you
know, there are tons of

1524
01:32:50,200 --> 01:32:55,200
teachings were Joseph's teaching
stuff that is aren't on the TGs,

1525
01:32:55,200 --> 01:33:01,200
they're not in wjs either.
Why is nobody published?

1526
01:33:01,200 --> 01:33:04,000
So why do we care?
So, little about the restoration

1527
01:33:04,700 --> 01:33:07,800
that we don't have a complete
teachings that Joseph Smith, we

1528
01:33:07,800 --> 01:33:10,900
think we do.
No George Albert Smith compiles.

1529
01:33:10,900 --> 01:33:14,100
It Joseph Fielding Smith
publishes it and they did quite

1530
01:33:14,100 --> 01:33:16,500
a bit of changing in it, which I
was surprised to find out

1531
01:33:16,500 --> 01:33:19,100
because we're does just that he
had a basically says anyone will

1532
01:33:19,100 --> 01:33:23,000
change much, mostly didn't, but
sometimes you really did a lot,

1533
01:33:23,300 --> 01:33:25,200
right?
I got to do a whole body, mm,

1534
01:33:25,200 --> 01:33:30,500
just on the changes.
In any rate.

1535
01:33:32,300 --> 01:33:36,400
So it's a tremendous resource.
I highly recommend it to anybody

1536
01:33:37,200 --> 01:33:40,700
but it wasn't what I wanted
either because there's a lot of

1537
01:33:40,700 --> 01:33:45,100
well Joseph had you know the
flat forehead and pronounced

1538
01:33:45,100 --> 01:33:47,600
eyebrows with all these stupid
this fruit trees.

1539
01:33:48,100 --> 01:33:50,900
And sometimes people just say
yeah I met this Mormon prophet

1540
01:33:50,900 --> 01:33:54,800
guy, he seemed like a nice
fellow and that's it, you know,

1541
01:33:54,800 --> 01:33:57,700
well that's nice from historians
perspective and I'm happy

1542
01:33:57,700 --> 01:33:59,900
because I've got a degree in
history and that's kind of an

1543
01:33:59,900 --> 01:34:03,300
obsession of mine.
But At the same time, I want to

1544
01:34:03,308 --> 01:34:05,800
know what he taught.
You know, at the end of the day,

1545
01:34:06,400 --> 01:34:09,600
what he did, they today is
inspiring but what he taught and

1546
01:34:09,600 --> 01:34:14,900
those principles.
That's what that's, that's the

1547
01:34:14,900 --> 01:34:17,200
whole reason we're here.
That's I want to know everything

1548
01:34:17,200 --> 01:34:19,500
there is to know about the
gospel, right?

1549
01:34:19,700 --> 01:34:23,100
If he was spouting off Sunday
and said, some stupid and

1550
01:34:23,100 --> 01:34:25,200
somebody wrote it down wrong,
but fine.

1551
01:34:25,500 --> 01:34:28,800
But I want to know what he said,
you know, it was going on in his

1552
01:34:28,800 --> 01:34:31,900
head and he said it just off the
cuff, fine.

1553
01:34:32,100 --> 01:34:34,100
Fine.
But it tells me where his mind

1554
01:34:34,100 --> 01:34:37,200
was and that, you know, you
would have only thought that if

1555
01:34:37,200 --> 01:34:40,200
you believe this, you know, I'm
I'm that kind of guy, so I

1556
01:34:40,200 --> 01:34:42,700
wanted to have all of it.
When we suspect, this isn't

1557
01:34:42,700 --> 01:34:46,200
going to take me that long to go
through and just kind of cut and

1558
01:34:46,200 --> 01:34:50,400
paste, you know.
Oh my gosh, it's taken me

1559
01:34:50,500 --> 01:34:57,500
probably 200 hours, just to put
citations into the footnotes and

1560
01:34:57,500 --> 01:35:01,800
format and in trimmed the story.
That's three pages.

1561
01:35:01,800 --> 01:35:04,700
Long Down to the two paragraphs
were actually taught something

1562
01:35:05,200 --> 01:35:10,100
and and modernized spelling or
whatever, you know, that sort of

1563
01:35:10,100 --> 01:35:13,100
stuff.
And I'm only a third way through

1564
01:35:13,500 --> 01:35:15,900
a family value.
Few figure this bad boy is going

1565
01:35:15,900 --> 01:35:21,500
to be, so I think that volume
and this is just like journals

1566
01:35:21,500 --> 01:35:23,500
and reminiscences.
I'm not talking about times and

1567
01:35:23,500 --> 01:35:27,300
Seasons, Joseph Smith, papers
kind of traffic, you know,

1568
01:35:27,300 --> 01:35:30,900
Kirtland Council minutes.
I am thinking just that one is

1569
01:35:30,900 --> 01:35:35,900
four to six hundred pages.
When I'm done, I don't know, but

1570
01:35:36,300 --> 01:35:38,800
it is not like those are
unpublished.

1571
01:35:39,100 --> 01:35:41,800
You know, they've been in higher
mattresses, they knew the

1572
01:35:41,800 --> 01:35:44,800
Prophet Joseph Smith, The Seer
room and bring Joseph.

1573
01:35:45,100 --> 01:35:47,100
Some of them only in
Remembering, Joseph CD-ROM.

1574
01:35:48,700 --> 01:35:53,100
But for the most part, those are
not like available as teachings,

1575
01:35:53,400 --> 01:35:55,700
right?
Because they're not reliable,

1576
01:35:55,700 --> 01:36:00,400
because they say basic deep crap
the church don't like, right?

1577
01:36:00,600 --> 01:36:03,200
Right.
And and I.

1578
01:36:03,200 --> 01:36:05,600
So anyway, I started writing
this book.

1579
01:36:06,900 --> 01:36:08,800
It.
Well, I should say I started

1580
01:36:08,800 --> 01:36:13,400
editing compiling this book and
just putting tags in, you know,

1581
01:36:13,400 --> 01:36:22,600
here's okay, Zions Camp, cholera
complaining, gratitude tags, you

1582
01:36:22,600 --> 01:36:29,000
know of what's going on here,
besides an index so that you can

1583
01:36:29,000 --> 01:36:31,400
kind of get a flavor of what's
going to be there, you know in,

1584
01:36:31,400 --> 01:36:34,600
right?
And kind of have a more modern

1585
01:36:34,800 --> 01:36:36,500
something you have a searchable
database.

1586
01:36:36,600 --> 01:36:41,500
Base that I can use for my
index, so that it's not just by

1587
01:36:41,500 --> 01:36:43,800
trigger words that maybe don't
show up.

1588
01:36:44,300 --> 01:36:48,300
It might not say science camp,
you know, it might say on the

1589
01:36:48,308 --> 01:36:51,700
way to Zion, but I know from
Context, it was can pretty much

1590
01:36:51,700 --> 01:36:54,900
say while we were en route.
We got cholera because men were

1591
01:36:54,900 --> 01:36:58,100
griping and complaining, but it
doesn't say science camp.

1592
01:36:58,100 --> 01:37:01,300
So Zions can't won't show up
there on the data on the index.

1593
01:37:01,300 --> 01:37:05,100
So right tags to do all this
stuff, it's just taking an

1594
01:37:05,100 --> 01:37:09,400
enormous amount of time.
And I get to this section about

1595
01:37:10,100 --> 01:37:15,000
the Transfiguration of Brigham
Young and I haven't finished

1596
01:37:15,000 --> 01:37:16,300
compiling.
All of that.

1597
01:37:16,300 --> 01:37:20,300
What's in the book is awesome.
I was so inspired but what's in

1598
01:37:20,300 --> 01:37:25,100
the CD-ROM is like way more her,
but I think that's looking like

1599
01:37:25,100 --> 01:37:29,000
just the accounts themselves in
a six by nine format is

1600
01:37:29,000 --> 01:37:33,200
something like 60 Pages.
Holy cow.

1601
01:37:34,100 --> 01:37:36,400
Just the on the Transfiguration
I think.

1602
01:37:37,100 --> 01:37:38,700
Last I checked.
It was something like that.

1603
01:37:39,600 --> 01:37:42,100
I haven't got, I've been
spending so much time on the

1604
01:37:42,700 --> 01:37:44,800
listen to that being a separate
book because I'm like the

1605
01:37:44,800 --> 01:37:47,200
transfigure Brigham.
Young isn't really the teachings

1606
01:37:47,200 --> 01:37:51,000
of Joseph, right?
But Brigham's, talking all about

1607
01:37:51,000 --> 01:37:55,300
the last charge which was
Joseph's teaching that led to

1608
01:37:55,308 --> 01:37:57,800
that event, although I don't
think it's really been

1609
01:37:58,200 --> 01:38:01,600
academically studied from that
perspective, so I'm like, I'm

1610
01:38:01,600 --> 01:38:03,400
just gonna write a second book
on this time.

1611
01:38:03,900 --> 01:38:06,600
Well, that's what I'm working on
now, but I think that's an

1612
01:38:06,600 --> 01:38:11,400
important Horton one, right?
Because that if they if that's

1613
01:38:11,400 --> 01:38:16,700
not Grounded in reality.
If that's not true, we can't go

1614
01:38:16,700 --> 01:38:19,000
back and look at it.
Yeah.

1615
01:38:19,000 --> 01:38:22,700
And that leaves a whole lot of
room for other things to come

1616
01:38:22,700 --> 01:38:25,000
in, right?
Whether that be the string, i'ts

1617
01:38:25,300 --> 01:38:28,200
whether that be and this isn't a
slam on the string, it's I'm

1618
01:38:28,200 --> 01:38:33,400
just saying, you know, you know
that maybe he's the rightful

1619
01:38:33,400 --> 01:38:37,100
Heir, maybe it does stay in in
Kirtland.

1620
01:38:37,100 --> 01:38:40,200
I mean inaudible and Kirtland
with Emma and her kids, maybe it

1621
01:38:40,200 --> 01:38:43,500
does.
You know, there's All sorts of

1622
01:38:43,500 --> 01:38:46,700
ways it can go so that that
moment in history where there's

1623
01:38:47,300 --> 01:38:49,900
where there's kind of a vacuum
in Joseph's absence.

1624
01:38:49,900 --> 01:38:56,400
That's a huge part of Mormonism
that I think has to be explored

1625
01:38:56,400 --> 01:39:03,900
a little bit better.
Okay, okay let me tell you.

1626
01:39:04,600 --> 01:39:11,500
Well, if I may yeah.
So I so I started I started

1627
01:39:14,100 --> 01:39:16,500
Okay.
Well, I came to couple

1628
01:39:16,500 --> 01:39:22,400
realizations as I was
researching this, and I can't

1629
01:39:22,400 --> 01:39:24,700
give it to you right now.
It'll be in the book.

1630
01:39:26,500 --> 01:39:28,500
But I read a quote of Brigham
Young.

1631
01:39:30,200 --> 01:39:35,900
And he basically says, you all
heard Joseph's last charge when

1632
01:39:35,900 --> 01:39:41,600
he said blah.
This is in front of the 5,000

1633
01:39:41,600 --> 01:39:44,900
Saints in the morning.
He's saying that to the crowd of

1634
01:39:44,900 --> 01:39:46,600
me afternoon.
We don't know what the count is.

1635
01:39:46,600 --> 01:39:49,400
I can't imagine if there were
5,000 morning, listen Sidney

1636
01:39:49,400 --> 01:39:53,600
Rigdon that there were at least
four thousand shown up to listen

1637
01:39:53,600 --> 01:39:55,800
to Brigham Young and Sidney
Rigdon site, where the church is

1638
01:39:55,800 --> 01:39:59,000
going to be its couple few hours
away, you know, I mean six hours

1639
01:39:59,000 --> 01:40:02,100
or something I can't imagine it
being two different but let's

1640
01:40:02,100 --> 01:40:08,200
say there were only 3,000 he
says you heard What happened

1641
01:40:08,200 --> 01:40:10,000
Haiti's name?
Did all those people here.

1642
01:40:10,500 --> 01:40:14,000
If it was March, 23rd, March 26
in the Council of 50 minutes

1643
01:40:14,700 --> 01:40:15,400
meeting.
Right?

1644
01:40:15,800 --> 01:40:17,000
Where do they hear the last
charge?

1645
01:40:18,200 --> 01:40:21,700
He hat recognizes that it was
repeated in a prayer circle

1646
01:40:21,700 --> 01:40:25,600
because Bathsheba Smith gives
them a record of Joseph giving a

1647
01:40:25,600 --> 01:40:29,400
last charge in a circle but it
treats it as an echo in the

1648
01:40:29,400 --> 01:40:32,800
Quorum of anointed meetings and
whatever that.

1649
01:40:35,000 --> 01:40:38,900
What's this series?
It's it's Anderson bruguera but

1650
01:40:38,900 --> 01:40:41,200
it's the Quorum of anointed
documentary history.

1651
01:40:41,200 --> 01:40:46,300
But then the second one is the
Nauvoo endowment company in the

1652
01:40:46,300 --> 01:40:49,500
third one is the history of the
temple, you know, which series

1653
01:40:49,500 --> 01:40:50,700
on the talking about.
Yeah.

1654
01:40:50,700 --> 01:40:54,200
And there it says he had
suggested this meeting, give

1655
01:40:54,200 --> 01:40:56,800
this and they quote the
certificate of the twelve and so

1656
01:40:56,800 --> 01:40:59,900
forth.
But, you know, I'm reading the,

1657
01:41:00,600 --> 01:41:03,100
he had to research at Queen's
research and it's all about

1658
01:41:03,100 --> 01:41:06,500
Council, 50 Council 50, you read
Le bare Nightfall, but cancelled

1659
01:41:06,500 --> 01:41:09,800
it can't be.
Not Johnson said, but I know

1660
01:41:09,800 --> 01:41:15,000
that there's a lot of quotes out
there, and, and I'm thinking

1661
01:41:15,000 --> 01:41:20,200
Brigham says everybody heard it.
So, how how do I put these

1662
01:41:20,200 --> 01:41:23,700
through together?
It doesn't make sense to me, but

1663
01:41:23,700 --> 01:41:26,000
it's inspiring to me and makes
me rethink stuff.

1664
01:41:26,000 --> 01:41:29,000
And so, so this is kind of what
happened.

1665
01:41:30,300 --> 01:41:34,200
So first of all, I grabbed all
the quotes and I start putting

1666
01:41:34,200 --> 01:41:40,200
them together and I organized
them by who said it and not

1667
01:41:40,200 --> 01:41:42,700
chronologically because we don't
know when some of the stuff was

1668
01:41:42,700 --> 01:41:45,700
recorded and when it's published
and that's the problem that we

1669
01:41:45,700 --> 01:41:48,100
didn't have with adaptation.
So I'm doing it differently.

1670
01:41:49,300 --> 01:41:52,200
But anyway, I'm formatting and
putting all together and I used

1671
01:41:52,900 --> 01:41:55,600
at the end of it.
I realized something really,

1672
01:41:55,700 --> 01:41:58,300
really unique.
And I started putting this all

1673
01:41:58,300 --> 01:42:02,200
together on multiple levels.
And these two really are very

1674
01:42:02,200 --> 01:42:04,600
related topics.
Last charge Transfiguration,

1675
01:42:04,600 --> 01:42:08,100
Brigham Young sure.
They seem very unrelated.

1676
01:42:09,600 --> 01:42:12,200
Anyway, I put them together.
I got about 70 accounts now.

1677
01:42:12,200 --> 01:42:16,000
He had and Quinn said, they
found 100 quotes last charge of

1678
01:42:16,000 --> 01:42:21,700
quotes, Okay?
I keep finding stuff that it's

1679
01:42:21,700 --> 01:42:26,800
not really a last charge quote,
but it kind of is and I think

1680
01:42:26,800 --> 01:42:30,800
those Count Their hundred but
I'm looking like, Reminiscent

1681
01:42:30,800 --> 01:42:34,800
accounts.
There are roughly 70 in my count

1682
01:42:34,800 --> 01:42:37,900
that I put in the book.
Couple of them are almost not

1683
01:42:37,900 --> 01:42:41,500
reminiscent there.
It's kind of you just have to

1684
01:42:41,500 --> 01:42:44,000
read each one to see
individually but sometimes they

1685
01:42:44,000 --> 01:42:48,000
don't read as a room, this and
account, it's just The

1686
01:42:48,000 --> 01:42:51,200
commentary on something that
happened that, you know, was the

1687
01:42:51,200 --> 01:42:55,100
last charge, but never says it,
you know, and at any rate.

1688
01:42:55,100 --> 01:42:58,400
So I think I probably found all
the same ones he had Quinn did -

1689
01:42:58,400 --> 01:43:01,500
a couple of maybe don't matter
but I just looked at it created

1690
01:43:01,500 --> 01:43:05,100
this long table and I asked
several questions for the team.

1691
01:43:06,000 --> 01:43:09,700
First question I asked was, you
know what's the name?

1692
01:43:10,100 --> 01:43:12,800
But when was this account given
because I want to compare a

1693
01:43:13,000 --> 01:43:15,500
50-year room this and accounts,
not same something to have three

1694
01:43:15,500 --> 01:43:17,100
months after it's just I don't
care.

1695
01:43:17,200 --> 01:43:21,300
How good your memory is, it's
just not that awesome and then I

1696
01:43:21,308 --> 01:43:24,000
asked the little bear.
My question, who was given

1697
01:43:24,000 --> 01:43:28,600
authority to 12 or the 12 and
somebody else or somebody else

1698
01:43:29,300 --> 01:43:30,500
and you know what I'm talking
about?

1699
01:43:30,500 --> 01:43:31,300
Sure.
Yep.

1700
01:43:31,700 --> 01:43:32,800
Okay.
Maybe for some of your

1701
01:43:32,800 --> 01:43:35,800
listeners.
LeBaron is basically say,

1702
01:43:35,800 --> 01:43:38,200
Benjamin F, Johnson was a member
of the council 50.

1703
01:43:38,200 --> 01:43:41,100
His very first meeting was the
last charge.

1704
01:43:41,100 --> 01:43:43,900
And he basically says, Joseph
gave the power to lead the

1705
01:43:43,900 --> 01:43:47,200
church to to the 12 in
connection.

1706
01:43:47,300 --> 01:43:51,300
The 50 and they weren't supposed
to do it alone and twelve or we

1707
01:43:51,300 --> 01:43:56,000
could it being flippant.
But, you know, that's kind of

1708
01:43:56,000 --> 01:44:01,800
the idea in the next question.
I asked is where was the last

1709
01:44:01,800 --> 01:44:04,800
charge given?
And this is a no-brainer that

1710
01:44:04,800 --> 01:44:07,300
known no academics really
asking.

1711
01:44:08,200 --> 01:44:13,200
But this is an important issue
and I'll explain why in a

1712
01:44:13,208 --> 01:44:15,300
minute.
And then what were the keys?

1713
01:44:15,400 --> 01:44:17,100
Joseph gave them were the keys
to the kingdom.

1714
01:44:17,400 --> 01:44:19,300
Or the keys to the church or
both.

1715
01:44:20,700 --> 01:44:23,100
And, you know, today in the
modern church.

1716
01:44:23,100 --> 01:44:25,700
That's the same thing.
But in Joseph's day, it was not

1717
01:44:25,700 --> 01:44:29,100
the same, same thing.
It was absolutely a separate

1718
01:44:29,100 --> 01:44:31,600
thing.
It was continued 100% different.

1719
01:44:31,700 --> 01:44:34,500
Yes.
And then the third question was,

1720
01:44:34,500 --> 01:44:37,600
does it mention the fullness of
the priests who s in 19th, the

1721
01:44:37,600 --> 01:44:44,700
account in the last one, which,
which has been completely mocked

1722
01:44:44,700 --> 01:44:46,900
by some Scholars is were women
present?

1723
01:44:48,400 --> 01:44:52,900
And, you know, I'm finding in
footnotes, like, in the corner

1724
01:44:52,900 --> 01:44:56,000
of anointed, there's kind of a
footnote says, we don't know for

1725
01:44:56,000 --> 01:44:57,300
sure.
This is Corman, meaning meaning

1726
01:44:57,300 --> 01:44:59,300
might have been a counselor 50
meeting, but he had things that

1727
01:44:59,300 --> 01:45:01,600
might not have been so we would
put it here because it makes it

1728
01:45:01,600 --> 01:45:05,000
look thicker.
Okay, it exaggerated.

1729
01:45:09,400 --> 01:45:12,100
Or you know, why is this really
hear?

1730
01:45:12,100 --> 01:45:14,200
What's the argument?
This should be here.

1731
01:45:14,600 --> 01:45:16,400
I agreed that.
It should be there by the way.

1732
01:45:17,200 --> 01:45:19,900
But it's not there in the
Council of 50 minutes.

1733
01:45:20,200 --> 01:45:23,200
There is no discussion of
there's no mention of the March

1734
01:45:23,200 --> 01:45:25,400
23rd and March 26 meeting with
the last church.

1735
01:45:25,400 --> 01:45:29,500
It's not there March, 23rd
didn't happen.

1736
01:45:29,500 --> 01:45:32,800
That's the date that person
Pratt offers and the March 26

1737
01:45:32,800 --> 01:45:34,600
account which is probably what
happened.

1738
01:45:34,600 --> 01:45:38,400
Says nothing about it and he has
got some Fabulous speculations

1739
01:45:38,400 --> 01:45:42,600
As why that's the case.
But why is it not there?

1740
01:45:42,700 --> 01:45:44,700
Well, you get a couple of
footnotes that's about it.

1741
01:45:46,400 --> 01:45:49,000
So after seven accounts and
looked at each of those, each of

1742
01:45:49,008 --> 01:45:56,100
those issues and and I haven't
frankly since I compiled that

1743
01:45:56,100 --> 01:45:58,400
made sure my notes are
absolutely perfect compare them

1744
01:45:58,400 --> 01:46:00,700
with the original quotes.
So I could be a bit of off in

1745
01:46:00,700 --> 01:46:04,100
the numbers but I think there
are only three accounts they

1746
01:46:04,100 --> 01:46:09,900
clearly say Council of 50.
And the only person to say that

1747
01:46:09,900 --> 01:46:14,600
authority to give was just to
give the authority to the 12 in

1748
01:46:14,600 --> 01:46:17,800
connection with it.
T was Benjamin of transfer.

1749
01:46:17,800 --> 01:46:20,100
That's it.
He's the only one.

1750
01:46:21,100 --> 01:46:24,400
Now that's a 50-year amidst, an
account.

1751
01:46:24,800 --> 01:46:29,700
But on the other hand, I've got
35 accounts Dimension, fullness

1752
01:46:29,700 --> 01:46:32,700
of the priesthood seven more,
that suggests fulness of

1753
01:46:32,700 --> 01:46:37,600
priesthood and well over, I
think 50 accounts would say the

1754
01:46:37,600 --> 01:46:43,600
12 were given the all the
authority and Power in about 12

1755
01:46:43,600 --> 01:46:46,100
accounts.
Let's say the twelve were given

1756
01:46:46,100 --> 01:46:49,000
that power in connection with
another core which other Quorum

1757
01:46:49,800 --> 01:46:54,400
not clear one says high priest.
One says a council in probably

1758
01:46:54,400 --> 01:47:00,900
that sounds like Council 50 but
it's doesn't say and some say

1759
01:47:00,900 --> 01:47:03,400
the holy priesthood men in
connection with the Holy

1760
01:47:03,400 --> 01:47:09,800
priesthood.
And other vague statements who

1761
01:47:10,300 --> 01:47:16,300
you know, men important people.
Not all the Authorities to the

1762
01:47:16,300 --> 01:47:17,800
church.
These are some of the buzz words

1763
01:47:18,200 --> 01:47:22,400
that are used, but it's it's
saying it's not just the 12.

1764
01:47:23,600 --> 01:47:26,800
So there is some substance maybe
to what Benjamin have Johnson

1765
01:47:26,800 --> 01:47:29,800
said.
But when you've got 70 accounts,

1766
01:47:30,900 --> 01:47:35,300
50 of them, say the 12, 12 of
them, say the 12, and somebody

1767
01:47:35,300 --> 01:47:39,800
else, and only ones that say 12
with 50 or one person 50, or

1768
01:47:39,800 --> 01:47:43,000
reminiscent, it's not very
compelling, right?

1769
01:47:43,100 --> 01:47:46,600
Historical evidentiary
perspective, that's not

1770
01:47:46,600 --> 01:47:49,900
compelling.
And so I was like, oh, that's

1771
01:47:49,900 --> 01:47:51,400
interesting.
So then I start adding some of

1772
01:47:51,407 --> 01:47:53,400
these other things because I'm
reading through the original

1773
01:47:53,400 --> 01:47:56,700
sources, and asking more
questions now, because I thought

1774
01:47:58,700 --> 01:48:03,900
I people have a lot of feelings
about D, Michael Quinn, he was a

1775
01:48:03,900 --> 01:48:08,100
good scholar in, he may be, he
messed up on some of his stuff,

1776
01:48:08,100 --> 01:48:11,900
don't we all?
Because really nice guy, I felt

1777
01:48:11,900 --> 01:48:13,900
really honored when I made his
Christmas list and send me

1778
01:48:13,900 --> 01:48:19,300
Christmas card, he was going to
quote, my Book Apostles on trial

1779
01:48:19,300 --> 01:48:20,900
extensively and ask my
permission.

1780
01:48:20,900 --> 01:48:25,400
I'm like, you know, of course,
thanks for the formality.

1781
01:48:25,400 --> 01:48:29,700
But, you know, that's an honor.
So, yeah, and then he died

1782
01:48:29,700 --> 01:48:32,400
before he published that book,
which I'm really upset about

1783
01:48:32,400 --> 01:48:35,100
because I was going to write the
same book and stopped because he

1784
01:48:35,100 --> 01:48:38,200
was writing it, I thought he'll
do a better job, right?

1785
01:48:38,600 --> 01:48:42,500
Anyway.
So so anyway, he studied this

1786
01:48:42,500 --> 01:48:45,300
and he had studied this and I
thought I'm sure they've been

1787
01:48:45,300 --> 01:48:49,100
down these rabbit holes.
But I know what it's like.

1788
01:48:49,100 --> 01:48:52,200
Sometimes you have this
perspective of something and you

1789
01:48:52,200 --> 01:48:56,800
just don't see past it.
So I started reviewing some of

1790
01:48:56,808 --> 01:48:59,600
these things and you know there
are Scholars out there who mock

1791
01:48:59,600 --> 01:49:04,300
the idea that Joseph did last
charging from the novel Legion.

1792
01:49:05,400 --> 01:49:08,400
There are three counts that say
Joseph gave the last charge does

1793
01:49:08,400 --> 01:49:11,900
not religion.
They said well Morons.

1794
01:49:12,200 --> 01:49:14,000
It was a council of 50.
They don't know the difference

1795
01:49:14,000 --> 01:49:15,700
between Legion and the counselor
15.

1796
01:49:15,700 --> 01:49:17,800
These people were confused, you
know?

1797
01:49:19,100 --> 01:49:23,000
And because he had Quinn said
it's Council 50 me, and that's

1798
01:49:23,000 --> 01:49:24,800
the truth.
That's, that's what it is, you

1799
01:49:24,800 --> 01:49:26,200
know?
And I'm like, we've got three

1800
01:49:26,200 --> 01:49:29,500
accounts, one of these accounts.
The guy says Joseph stood at the

1801
01:49:29,500 --> 01:49:33,600
frame and the mansion house so
he's in the doorway he remembers

1802
01:49:33,600 --> 01:49:37,400
is watching in the doorway.
That's the kind of let speaking

1803
01:49:37,400 --> 01:49:41,000
to a large crowd, right?
I mean, right, well and besides

1804
01:49:41,000 --> 01:49:44,000
that is a historian that's the
kind of detail when somebody

1805
01:49:44,000 --> 01:49:47,400
remembers that.
That's not them bravado e,

1806
01:49:48,000 --> 01:49:50,300
right?
I mean, we've got, we've got

1807
01:49:50,500 --> 01:49:52,900
John Lee saying he's a
Transfiguration of Brigham

1808
01:49:52,900 --> 01:49:54,300
Young.
He was on a mission, you didn't

1809
01:49:54,300 --> 01:49:56,300
get back to the 20th that
happened on the eighth.

1810
01:49:56,400 --> 01:49:58,700
He probably was just saying that
to make people.

1811
01:49:59,500 --> 01:50:02,200
I knew I was back in the day
when Brigham was transfigured,

1812
01:50:02,200 --> 01:50:03,200
man.
That was cool.

1813
01:50:03,200 --> 01:50:05,600
And I don't know what he's
thinking but he wasn't there.

1814
01:50:06,200 --> 01:50:08,100
You know, right?
But when you start making

1815
01:50:08,100 --> 01:50:10,900
distance, he says he's in the
frame of the mansion house.

1816
01:50:10,900 --> 01:50:14,500
I was standing in the friend, in
the street, leaning on the

1817
01:50:14,500 --> 01:50:17,800
picket fence with my brother and
the not be Legion.

1818
01:50:17,800 --> 01:50:21,300
Cub this call and response with
Joseph about what they died for

1819
01:50:21,300 --> 01:50:23,900
each other or not.
And then Joseph gives the last

1820
01:50:23,900 --> 01:50:26,200
charge.
That's not the kind of detail

1821
01:50:26,200 --> 01:50:29,100
people make up typically
speaking as a historian.

1822
01:50:29,400 --> 01:50:35,200
That's a dang, good red flag,
good quote, but all their stupid

1823
01:50:35,200 --> 01:50:37,300
because it Remember the Nabi
Legion from the council 50?

1824
01:50:37,300 --> 01:50:39,400
Then these people are carrying
around bayonets and guns in the

1825
01:50:39,400 --> 01:50:42,500
street, the guy remembers right,
right?

1826
01:50:43,100 --> 01:50:46,300
And then they're like, well, the
women, this woman said that she

1827
01:50:46,300 --> 01:50:49,300
heard the last charge but she
couldn't have because it was a

1828
01:50:49,300 --> 01:50:51,400
council of 50 meeting.
She must remember because her

1829
01:50:51,500 --> 01:50:54,200
brother, was in the Council of
50 and blah, blah, blah.

1830
01:50:54,400 --> 01:50:57,700
Well guess what?
We have eight separate women

1831
01:50:57,700 --> 01:51:00,500
saying that he's physically
heard with their own ears, the

1832
01:51:00,500 --> 01:51:04,000
last charge One of them was
Bathsheba Smith.

1833
01:51:04,200 --> 01:51:05,800
Okay?
So if we go to the prayer

1834
01:51:05,800 --> 01:51:08,600
circles in the corner of
anointed meetings, and we check

1835
01:51:08,600 --> 01:51:11,000
up all the times.
The best Sheena Smith shows up a

1836
01:51:11,000 --> 01:51:13,100
circle meetings when they could
have given last heard.

1837
01:51:13,100 --> 01:51:16,300
That sounds like, maybe that was
the last charge date to change.

1838
01:51:16,300 --> 01:51:18,300
Its family shows up in three
meetings.

1839
01:51:19,000 --> 01:51:20,700
One of them is for her second
anointing.

1840
01:51:20,900 --> 01:51:24,800
That's just not a good venue for
second, glass charge and the

1841
01:51:24,800 --> 01:51:27,000
others.
William laws excommunication

1842
01:51:27,000 --> 01:51:28,200
getting kicked out of the
Quorum.

1843
01:51:28,200 --> 01:51:30,400
Basically is not meeting
expectations kicked out of the

1844
01:51:30,407 --> 01:51:33,300
corner anointed.
And the third one sounds like

1845
01:51:33,300 --> 01:51:34,300
maybe that was the last charge
me.

1846
01:51:34,300 --> 01:51:38,100
That was December. 2013, 43.
Lots of early date for prayer

1847
01:51:38,100 --> 01:51:39,300
circle.
We're not expecting.

1848
01:51:39,700 --> 01:51:42,400
He had speculates the 17th
because of Orson Heights,

1849
01:51:42,400 --> 01:51:49,500
comments but she's not there.
So you say, okay, well, it was

1850
01:51:49,500 --> 01:51:52,100
given to the Quorum anointed.
So that's why some of the women

1851
01:51:52,100 --> 01:51:54,100
showed up at the other ones must
have been mistaken.

1852
01:51:54,100 --> 01:51:56,100
Well, guess what?
There were seven other women.

1853
01:51:56,100 --> 01:51:58,400
Testified, they were physically
present and they weren't in the

1854
01:51:58,400 --> 01:52:00,300
corner of anointed when Joseph
was alive.

1855
01:52:01,100 --> 01:52:02,700
So they had to hear in a public
meeting.

1856
01:52:03,800 --> 01:52:07,400
So now we have Wilford Woodruff
starting mostly later in his

1857
01:52:07,400 --> 01:52:09,300
life face.
But starting, you know, early

1858
01:52:09,300 --> 01:52:11,700
on, he starts testifying about
the last charge but especially

1859
01:52:11,700 --> 01:52:13,800
at the end of his life.
He says, you know, Joseph gave

1860
01:52:13,800 --> 01:52:18,600
this discourse many times and
further he gave it to the relief

1861
01:52:18,600 --> 01:52:21,400
societies plural.
Not just one meeting but

1862
01:52:21,400 --> 01:52:24,400
multiple times.
There's a one I can remember

1863
01:52:24,400 --> 01:52:27,200
first name, but as a last name,
is Maga Norm on or something

1864
01:52:27,200 --> 01:52:31,500
like that.
And she said, and from then on,

1865
01:52:32,200 --> 01:52:35,400
that was his Joseph.
He was preaching the last charge

1866
01:52:35,900 --> 01:52:40,000
she says like it was a topic.
He just talked about a lot so

1867
01:52:40,200 --> 01:52:42,100
whoever would just side one more
quick thing.

1868
01:52:42,200 --> 01:52:45,800
Okay, well for window says,
hundreds or thousands of you

1869
01:52:45,900 --> 01:52:51,000
personally heard Joseph preach
the last charge in his going to

1870
01:52:51,000 --> 01:52:57,800
been like, you know, Wilfred
woodruff's bravado, this is, you

1871
01:52:57,800 --> 01:53:02,300
know, remiss and account because
he's he's bias in favor of the

1872
01:53:02,300 --> 01:53:05,300
twelve and He doesn't remember
right and all this sort of

1873
01:53:05,300 --> 01:53:10,000
stuff.
But I have at least 11 separate

1874
01:53:10,000 --> 01:53:14,400
venues documented and there are
several more that say he said it

1875
01:53:14,400 --> 01:53:18,900
oft-repeated, many occasions
numerous times, the Joseph gave

1876
01:53:18,900 --> 01:53:21,200
this discourse.
There's at least one.

1877
01:53:21,200 --> 01:53:24,300
When a child Joseph Smith, the
third was present for the talk.

1878
01:53:25,000 --> 01:53:27,600
We've got at least seven women
who heard it, who weren't in the

1879
01:53:27,600 --> 01:53:29,500
corner of nodes?
That had to be a general

1880
01:53:29,500 --> 01:53:32,300
conference meeting.
People say it was in the Bowery

1881
01:53:32,300 --> 01:53:34,000
it was a stand east of the
Temple.

1882
01:53:34,400 --> 01:53:37,000
And we've got one person saying
it was on the way to Carthage

1883
01:53:37,000 --> 01:53:40,900
Jail.
And you've got another who says

1884
01:53:40,900 --> 01:53:44,500
it was, he was preparing.
He went and fetched water for

1885
01:53:44,500 --> 01:53:46,800
Joseph to get water for the
endowments.

1886
01:53:46,800 --> 01:53:49,400
He said, I want you to be my
witness, I'm giving a damn.

1887
01:53:49,400 --> 01:53:54,300
It's to the 12 this day and that
was the day over winter says, he

1888
01:53:54,300 --> 01:53:56,300
gave the last charge to the 12
is when he gave him their

1889
01:53:56,300 --> 01:53:58,400
endowments.
And that's got its own little

1890
01:53:58,400 --> 01:54:01,500
issues going on there, but I've
got at least 11 different

1891
01:54:01,500 --> 01:54:03,400
accounts.
We know women were present.

1892
01:54:03,500 --> 01:54:06,600
We know a child was present and
we've got people testifying it

1893
01:54:06,600 --> 01:54:08,200
happened over and over and over
again.

1894
01:54:09,400 --> 01:54:13,800
So all of the scholarships
saying happened at one Council

1895
01:54:13,800 --> 01:54:19,100
50-minute event is rubbish.
There's no way this was a

1896
01:54:19,100 --> 01:54:23,500
one-time event and that changes
the entire history of the

1897
01:54:23,500 --> 01:54:24,700
Transfiguration of Brigham
Young.

1898
01:54:25,500 --> 01:54:28,100
Well, yeah, and that's what
where I was going.

1899
01:54:28,400 --> 01:54:31,900
But let's talk about the
ramifications of this, right?

1900
01:54:31,900 --> 01:54:36,700
If what you're saying and what
you're finding is as fact, what

1901
01:54:36,700 --> 01:54:39,600
does that mean, what does that
mean for us as Mormons is a

1902
01:54:39,600 --> 01:54:44,400
hole, right?
So this is where this is where

1903
01:54:44,400 --> 01:54:46,800
even a good memory can get
screwed up.

1904
01:54:47,300 --> 01:54:53,700
So It hit, I ready, hats thesis,
probably in like, 2000 two or

1905
01:54:53,700 --> 01:54:55,000
three?
I don't remember.

1906
01:54:55,900 --> 01:55:01,100
And by the way, his less time
misconstrued, I I'm dedicating

1907
01:55:01,100 --> 01:55:03,300
my book to Andre.
Yeah, I think he's a is

1908
01:55:03,800 --> 01:55:07,900
undervalued scholar and he's
done a Monumental service to

1909
01:55:07,900 --> 01:55:10,400
Mormonism.
I really admire appreciate him,

1910
01:55:11,300 --> 01:55:14,700
but I read his thesis earlier,
on what I remember is I was

1911
01:55:14,700 --> 01:55:16,700
studying.
Mormon fundamentalism, as this.

1912
01:55:16,700 --> 01:55:20,500
He hat in, this is not Accurate,
is that there's a Twist on this?

1913
01:55:20,500 --> 01:55:22,000
But this is what my memory was
telling me.

1914
01:55:22,900 --> 01:55:28,300
He had says, isn't it remarkable
that Brigham Young's argument as

1915
01:55:28,300 --> 01:55:32,000
the successor of Joseph Smith
says, hey guess what?

1916
01:55:32,600 --> 01:55:36,100
I have a secret priesthood
because his secret ordinations

1917
01:55:36,100 --> 01:55:39,400
from Joseph, at these secret
meetings, in a secret Quorum

1918
01:55:39,400 --> 01:55:42,800
that none of, you know about
it's called, well, nevermind we

1919
01:55:42,800 --> 01:55:45,500
just won't talk about that.
But Joseph gave me all this

1920
01:55:45,500 --> 01:55:48,400
extra Authority with the 12 and
we should leave the church.

1921
01:55:48,500 --> 01:55:51,700
Church.
That is basically as argument, I

1922
01:55:51,700 --> 01:55:53,700
got secret priesthood from
secret meetings.

1923
01:55:54,200 --> 01:55:56,300
Isn't it remarkable that all the
saints, followed him.

1924
01:55:57,000 --> 01:55:59,700
I mean, you know, you've got
string, I'd scare the rigging

1925
01:55:59,700 --> 01:56:02,900
nights, you've got the, the
Cutler, I'd say, you've got, you

1926
01:56:02,907 --> 01:56:07,600
know, lyman's, white following
Mass alignment, all these people

1927
01:56:07,800 --> 01:56:11,700
fine, but they were so small
compared to the vast majority of

1928
01:56:11,700 --> 01:56:15,600
saints who follow Brigham Young.
And I thought, man, that's

1929
01:56:15,600 --> 01:56:21,400
fascinating that the whole
foundation of the western church

1930
01:56:21,400 --> 01:56:23,100
is based on these secret
meetings.

1931
01:56:23,100 --> 01:56:26,100
In the secret priesthood, the
second no meetings, right?

1932
01:56:26,100 --> 01:56:27,600
That's what Brigham Young was
talking on.

1933
01:56:27,800 --> 01:56:32,300
His fullness of the priesthood.
So that's stuck in my head for a

1934
01:56:32,308 --> 01:56:35,100
couple decades and I ruminated
over it.

1935
01:56:35,100 --> 01:56:38,300
I just thought was fascinating,
you know, and for all the air

1936
01:56:38,300 --> 01:56:41,600
time how evil Wicked secret
meetings are in the mainstream

1937
01:56:41,600 --> 01:56:43,900
church today, that's what was
going down.

1938
01:56:45,100 --> 01:56:48,800
You know, the Quorum of anointed
was not recognized by the people

1939
01:56:48,800 --> 01:56:50,800
as a corn because it was not in
the Scriptures.

1940
01:56:50,800 --> 01:56:54,100
It was not in a revelation, it
was not publicly acknowledged,

1941
01:56:54,500 --> 01:56:56,700
and frankly, most people just
didn't know about it.

1942
01:56:57,100 --> 01:56:59,700
And the same was pretty much
true the Council of 50, there's

1943
01:56:59,700 --> 01:57:03,000
no I Thus saith the Lord
organized you a quorum of high

1944
01:57:03,000 --> 01:57:05,200
priest and they shall former
High Council and they'll judge

1945
01:57:05,200 --> 01:57:06,500
people.
And there's all this Revelation

1946
01:57:06,500 --> 01:57:09,300
telling us about the hype and I
counsel you want to not read

1947
01:57:09,300 --> 01:57:10,700
about Elders.
The, here's the owners.

1948
01:57:10,700 --> 01:57:13,200
Quorum has shall have this many
96 members and then there would

1949
01:57:13,200 --> 01:57:15,700
be, you know, in same thing with
deacons and all the way down to

1950
01:57:15,700 --> 01:57:19,900
priests and all these lesser
important, things have

1951
01:57:19,900 --> 01:57:22,700
Revelation, but the whole
foundation of the church is

1952
01:57:22,700 --> 01:57:26,100
based on a quorum that's not
acknowledged when Joseph dies.

1953
01:57:27,100 --> 01:57:30,200
In any way, shape, or form.
So that's an amazing

1954
01:57:30,200 --> 01:57:32,600
observation.
Now, that's not what he had

1955
01:57:32,600 --> 01:57:35,100
said.
When I went back to the truck to

1956
01:57:35,100 --> 01:57:37,900
find the quote, because I was
dedicating, the book to him and

1957
01:57:37,900 --> 01:57:40,000
trying to say here, this is,
what inspired the book.

1958
01:57:40,100 --> 01:57:44,500
What he actually said is Rigdon
was told that, you know, he

1959
01:57:44,500 --> 01:57:47,600
didn't have the fullness of the
priesthood and he you should

1960
01:57:47,600 --> 01:57:49,600
know better than to try and
ordained people to something he

1961
01:57:49,600 --> 01:57:53,100
doesn't have.
But at the end of the day, he

1962
01:57:53,100 --> 01:57:56,800
had says, the Quorum of anointed
was never intended.

1963
01:57:56,900 --> 01:58:00,400
Doobie at leadership Forum that
was guiding the church.

1964
01:58:00,600 --> 01:58:03,500
You know, it was Joseph's hope
that everybody would receive

1965
01:58:03,500 --> 01:58:05,100
their second anointings and blah
blah blah.

1966
01:58:05,800 --> 01:58:08,300
Totally on board with what he
said but that's not what

1967
01:58:08,300 --> 01:58:11,900
happened.
Brigham Young said the 12 should

1968
01:58:11,900 --> 01:58:15,300
leave the church not because the
doctor Kevin says, so it doesn't

1969
01:58:15,300 --> 01:58:18,700
not because that's our job, dr.
Kevin says, it's not their job

1970
01:58:19,100 --> 01:58:21,600
not?
Because we were ordained in 1835

1971
01:58:21,600 --> 01:58:24,600
and, you know, given his they
give that a run.

1972
01:58:25,200 --> 01:58:29,300
Anyways, is a quorum of 12.
But because we received a

1973
01:58:29,300 --> 01:58:32,200
fullness of priesthood in the
secret meetings that you guys

1974
01:58:32,200 --> 01:58:34,700
don't know about, that's why
we're running the church now.

1975
01:58:35,000 --> 01:58:37,500
And Joseph said, so, in the last
charge, it gave it a secret

1976
01:58:37,500 --> 01:58:39,700
meeting called the council 50,
right?

1977
01:58:40,300 --> 01:58:41,700
That's kind of what it boils
down to.

1978
01:58:41,700 --> 01:58:44,100
And so I'm reading he has thesis
in the irony of all.

1979
01:58:44,100 --> 01:58:48,800
This is just blowing my mind.
You know, I've got my

1980
01:58:48,800 --> 01:58:52,800
father-in-law saying Drew, you
can't have this 1886 meeting

1981
01:58:52,800 --> 01:58:54,700
where there's any secret
organizations that might have

1982
01:58:54,708 --> 01:58:56,700
been given or this priest again,
junk?

1983
01:58:56,900 --> 01:58:59,100
That was a given to the church,
and if it was Revelation, it

1984
01:58:59,100 --> 01:59:01,400
wasn't sanctioned by the church
and, you know, all this sort of

1985
01:59:01,407 --> 01:59:03,700
stuff.
And so this really sticks out in

1986
01:59:03,700 --> 01:59:06,200
my mind that the whole church is
founded upon this.

1987
01:59:06,700 --> 01:59:10,600
Now, how does, what I've been
studying change that.

1988
01:59:11,600 --> 01:59:16,000
Well, here's how it changes it
in and just quickly summarizing

1989
01:59:16,000 --> 01:59:22,800
again.
Well let me backtrack to one

1990
01:59:22,800 --> 01:59:27,100
more thing real quickly Orson.
Pratt presents a draft

1991
01:59:27,100 --> 01:59:29,700
certificate of The Twelve
Apostles which really their only

1992
01:59:29,700 --> 01:59:32,900
nine at they were present
saying, we were this last charge

1993
01:59:32,900 --> 01:59:37,300
meeting in the council 50 where
Joseph anointed us and gave us

1994
01:59:37,300 --> 01:59:41,300
the authority to lead the church
basically and the kingdom. he

1995
01:59:41,300 --> 01:59:45,500
presents the certificate which
is now available in Joseph Smith

1996
01:59:45,500 --> 01:59:54,000
papers dot-org, I think it's on
might be Might be on the March

1997
01:59:54,000 --> 01:59:56,600
25th 1845.
That's when the council

1998
01:59:56,600 --> 02:00:00,100
15-minute meeting was, but any
rate you can find it on the just

1999
02:00:00,100 --> 02:00:02,800
the papers dot-org.
He presents this trap

2000
02:00:02,800 --> 02:00:06,000
certificate with their testimony
about the last charge when he

2001
02:00:06,000 --> 02:00:10,100
presents it to the Council of 53
objections are made.

2002
02:00:10,600 --> 02:00:14,000
First of all, Brigham Young
said, Joseph, never anointed Us

2003
02:00:14,000 --> 02:00:17,800
in that in that meeting.
And I don't care what people

2004
02:00:17,800 --> 02:00:20,200
think if they understand where
we got our Authority or not.

2005
02:00:20,700 --> 02:00:24,500
So that's Brigham's objection.
Orson Pratt says, I wasn't

2006
02:00:24,500 --> 02:00:28,100
present at the meeting but I was
President a similar meeting when

2007
02:00:28,100 --> 02:00:31,300
he gave the last charge and he
said all this stuff and, you

2008
02:00:31,300 --> 02:00:33,400
know, gave this authority to the
12 and so forth.

2009
02:00:33,400 --> 02:00:35,700
So I can testify to that but I
wasn't at the council. 50

2010
02:00:35,700 --> 02:00:38,000
meeting was an Omission or
something, I don't remember.

2011
02:00:39,100 --> 02:00:41,300
So, that's significant because
now, that's, that's a different

2012
02:00:41,300 --> 02:00:46,200
venue that he's referring to a,
and then, Lucy and Woodworth.

2013
02:00:46,200 --> 02:00:50,200
Which frankly is not like this
massive pillar of Mormon done

2014
02:00:50,200 --> 02:00:52,500
that everybody knows like Heber
C, Kimball or Jebediah, Grant or

2015
02:00:52,500 --> 02:00:53,700
somebody.
You know, somebody like that,

2016
02:00:53,700 --> 02:00:56,600
but he's in the council 50.
He's also in the corner of

2017
02:00:56,600 --> 02:01:00,300
anointed and losing Woodworth
says, I don't think it's

2018
02:01:00,300 --> 02:01:03,200
appropriate for you to be
talking about this stuff Orson

2019
02:01:03,200 --> 02:01:07,000
hide in the council 15 meetings,
that information belongs in a

2020
02:01:07,008 --> 02:01:08,700
different Quorum, it's not
appropriate.

2021
02:01:08,900 --> 02:01:12,000
It for you to talk about it here
and it's talking about second

2022
02:01:12,000 --> 02:01:13,900
anointings.
Yeah, it's talking about

2023
02:01:13,900 --> 02:01:16,100
fullness of priesthood.
He's clearly referring to Quorum

2024
02:01:16,100 --> 02:01:19,700
of anointed but he's staying
Orson high, he made a mistake

2025
02:01:20,300 --> 02:01:23,100
that meeting was not a council
of 50 meeting.

2026
02:01:24,400 --> 02:01:26,200
That's what all three of those
brother and are saying.

2027
02:01:27,100 --> 02:01:30,400
And and so it gets dropped and
that certificate never get

2028
02:01:30,400 --> 02:01:32,600
signed.
Well, this is interesting.

2029
02:01:32,900 --> 02:01:36,700
So why is Orson hide wrong?
Well, how did he mess that up?

2030
02:01:37,000 --> 02:01:39,700
Well, of course, I'm anointed
meetings guess where they're at,

2031
02:01:39,700 --> 02:01:43,800
Red Brick Store most time where
we're Council of 15 meetings Red

2032
02:01:43,800 --> 02:01:49,500
Brick Store who was present for
the last charge the 12 and a few

2033
02:01:49,500 --> 02:01:55,100
other man Hyrum Smith and Joseph
Smith for sure mentioned And

2034
02:01:55,100 --> 02:01:58,800
guess who's in the council 50?
Same in, right.

2035
02:01:59,500 --> 02:02:03,300
And guess what?
The topic was is the same topic,

2036
02:02:03,700 --> 02:02:05,400
you know?
And frankly problem there was a

2037
02:02:05,400 --> 02:02:07,700
last charge given in the council
50 meetings.

2038
02:02:07,700 --> 02:02:10,700
I firmly assume and believe
there was, but there was also

2039
02:02:10,700 --> 02:02:14,200
one of the counts than the when
he Joseph gives the endowments

2040
02:02:14,200 --> 02:02:17,200
again or a second anointings
again, along with their

2041
02:02:17,200 --> 02:02:22,000
appointment for any gives the
last charge as Dennison.

2042
02:02:22,000 --> 02:02:25,600
Harris, lot says, President��s a
lot Harrison.

2043
02:02:25,600 --> 02:02:28,800
I'm currently whatever one of
those hard names for me to

2044
02:02:28,800 --> 02:02:33,000
remember but at any rate it's
easy to see why a person hide

2045
02:02:33,500 --> 02:02:36,800
messed that up and he gets
corrected by three brethren in

2046
02:02:36,800 --> 02:02:39,100
the Council of 15 meetings,
think that was not a council 50

2047
02:02:39,100 --> 02:02:44,400
me you're mixing things up.
So so with that acknowledge,

2048
02:02:44,400 --> 02:02:49,900
we've got 11, at least eleven
venues acknowledged in these

2049
02:02:49,900 --> 02:02:54,100
Accounts at least I think when
you says multiple times.

2050
02:02:54,300 --> 02:02:56,100
You know, I mean we've got a
cottage meeting.

2051
02:02:56,100 --> 02:03:00,700
We've got on the way to Carthage
and there are a lot of the

2052
02:03:00,700 --> 02:03:03,200
Legion, the relief societies are
a lot of places that are just

2053
02:03:03,200 --> 02:03:05,000
not even secret priest of
meetings.

2054
02:03:05,700 --> 02:03:09,200
But so in the end up with that
perspective, at least 11, we've

2055
02:03:09,200 --> 02:03:14,300
got at least eight women being
testifying that they were there

2056
02:03:14,300 --> 02:03:17,500
and we've got more that are
brought up as saying it was, it

2057
02:03:17,500 --> 02:03:19,500
was, you know, in this General
Conference.

2058
02:03:19,500 --> 02:03:22,700
It was like outside.
And I heard him talk, you know,

2059
02:03:22,700 --> 02:03:24,900
Outdoors by the power Hurry or
something.

2060
02:03:25,700 --> 02:03:28,400
When you look at all this, I
think we need to consider

2061
02:03:28,400 --> 02:03:32,200
Wilfred woodruff's, testimony
really carefully.

2062
02:03:32,200 --> 02:03:35,400
The hundreds or thousands heard
that testimony.

2063
02:03:36,000 --> 02:03:41,500
And when you look at Brigham
Young's rhetoric to people, He

2064
02:03:41,500 --> 02:03:45,900
doesn't have to explain all the
details, he's just saying you

2065
02:03:45,900 --> 02:03:48,500
guys remember the last charge?
I mean, the fullness of the

2066
02:03:48,500 --> 02:03:50,800
priesthood and these things
knowing oh yeah, we remember

2067
02:03:50,800 --> 02:03:52,200
hearing about that.
Why?

2068
02:03:52,300 --> 02:03:56,300
Because as Magan testified, that
was his burden from then.

2069
02:03:56,300 --> 02:04:00,400
On to preach about, you know,
the authority being given to the

2070
02:04:00,400 --> 02:04:05,100
12th Joseph prepared.
The Saints in hundreds or

2071
02:04:05,100 --> 02:04:08,900
thousands of them recognize that
Joseph knew and designated the

2072
02:04:08,900 --> 02:04:12,300
12 to be leaders.
As of the church before he died.

2073
02:04:12,700 --> 02:04:15,500
That's how this is different.
And Brigham Young acknowledges

2074
02:04:15,500 --> 02:04:19,700
that in the Transfiguration
accounts specifically in this

2075
02:04:19,700 --> 02:04:22,800
is, this is one of those things
I'm like, how clear was it when

2076
02:04:22,800 --> 02:04:24,900
I rather?
Because it's been, you know,

2077
02:04:24,900 --> 02:04:28,200
I've been last 80 hours of my
research has all been last

2078
02:04:28,200 --> 02:04:32,400
charge at Transfiguration, is
just in my mind, is, you know,

2079
02:04:32,500 --> 02:04:35,600
how this affected it.
But Brigham Young was pretty in

2080
02:04:35,600 --> 02:04:37,800
my mind and I tend to be picky
about these things.

2081
02:04:37,800 --> 02:04:41,900
He's very clear to say you all
have heard the last Richie you

2082
02:04:41,900 --> 02:04:43,900
heard Joseph, give us the
authority.

2083
02:04:44,700 --> 02:04:46,600
That's a very different
perspective from.

2084
02:04:47,200 --> 02:04:50,400
I got this secret priesthood
from the secret meetings that

2085
02:04:50,400 --> 02:04:52,100
you guys don't know anything
about.

2086
02:04:52,200 --> 02:04:53,400
That's what you should believe
me.

2087
02:04:54,300 --> 02:04:57,400
And so because it's not
compelling now, there's this

2088
02:04:57,400 --> 02:05:00,200
miracle that happens, the it
sounds like Joseph Smith to the

2089
02:05:00,200 --> 02:05:03,800
whistle on his tooth being
kicked out from the beating.

2090
02:05:03,800 --> 02:05:05,400
He opted.
When they tried to poison him,

2091
02:05:05,900 --> 02:05:09,300
you know, all these types of
descriptions are given of Joseph

2092
02:05:09,300 --> 02:05:13,600
Smith are bringing a During his
Joseph Smith, well, that just

2093
02:05:13,600 --> 02:05:18,300
sounds like, Miracle or
polemics.

2094
02:05:18,300 --> 02:05:22,600
If you're cynical right, it's
this, this political retrospect

2095
02:05:22,700 --> 02:05:29,200
like conspiracy, right?
But from this perspective, if we

2096
02:05:29,200 --> 02:05:32,400
look at it, I don't, I don't
think it's, I don't think you

2097
02:05:32,400 --> 02:05:36,300
can argue any anymore when you,
when you see all the accounts

2098
02:05:36,300 --> 02:05:39,900
together and they're all
published without the framework

2099
02:05:39,900 --> 02:05:42,600
of counsel.
D, I don't think he can look at

2100
02:05:42,600 --> 02:05:46,400
this anymore and say.
The Saints didn't know what to

2101
02:05:46,400 --> 02:05:50,700
do, you know, I think he will
for what, for Woodruff was fond

2102
02:05:50,700 --> 02:05:53,200
of saying, we didn't understand
what Joseph was saying.

2103
02:05:53,600 --> 02:05:55,800
We thought he was going to take
a break for a while.

2104
02:05:55,900 --> 02:05:59,600
We thought he was just gonna,
you know, take a vacation and

2105
02:05:59,600 --> 02:06:02,600
come back and fix everything.
And I'm sure the Saints thought

2106
02:06:02,600 --> 02:06:04,900
similar things.
Some of them, but Joseph can

2107
02:06:04,900 --> 02:06:06,600
never die.
He even said in one of his last

2108
02:06:06,600 --> 02:06:08,000
discourses.
Some people thought I could

2109
02:06:08,000 --> 02:06:10,000
never die.
And there was a time in my life

2110
02:06:10,000 --> 02:06:12,400
when my promises weren't
fulfilled, that was true, but it

2111
02:06:12,400 --> 02:06:15,500
is no longer true, man.
Any man on subject to death, He

2112
02:06:15,500 --> 02:06:18,600
prophesied of his martyrdom.
I think I probably got 40

2113
02:06:18,600 --> 02:06:22,600
accounts of it.
It wasn't like he thought about

2114
02:06:22,600 --> 02:06:25,800
it, and said it to two people.
He talked about it many times.

2115
02:06:26,300 --> 02:06:28,700
In fact, frankly, I think a lot
of those times were probably

2116
02:06:28,700 --> 02:06:32,100
last charge accounts, if we will
view the record, we, you know,

2117
02:06:32,100 --> 02:06:34,900
if we want to start piecing
things together, but at the end

2118
02:06:34,900 --> 02:06:39,600
of the day, you can't say it was
a council 50-minute, only, I

2119
02:06:39,600 --> 02:06:42,000
think it did happen, there it
also happened in the corner of

2120
02:06:42,000 --> 02:06:44,300
anointed multiple times.
I think it happened in the leaf

2121
02:06:44,300 --> 02:06:46,700
Society.
Besides have been with the novel

2122
02:06:46,700 --> 02:06:49,600
Legion happened in personal
Cottage meeting.

2123
02:06:49,600 --> 02:06:53,700
It happens in a endowment
session with the 12 and on and

2124
02:06:53,700 --> 02:06:56,500
on it goes there were multiple
times he did this.

2125
02:06:57,100 --> 02:07:01,300
And so when Brigham Young stands
up and says the 12 were supposed

2126
02:07:01,300 --> 02:07:05,900
to leave the church, it's not a
surprise people are like, oh

2127
02:07:05,900 --> 02:07:08,400
yeah.
Just like Brigham, Young said

2128
02:07:08,400 --> 02:07:10,300
first and goes to take the keys
to the kingdom.

2129
02:07:11,500 --> 02:07:15,600
No, he gave us all the authority
that could be had You know, he's

2130
02:07:15,600 --> 02:07:18,300
just his grief over, took him
for a minute and he's like, duh,

2131
02:07:18,800 --> 02:07:23,000
I remember now and so they did
the Saints just needed reminded

2132
02:07:23,600 --> 02:07:28,300
now there's an objection to this
type of approach and and I think

2133
02:07:28,300 --> 02:07:31,500
this is, why part part of this
has been missed frankly, I kind

2134
02:07:31,500 --> 02:07:33,200
of Wonder.
I'm like you've got eight women

2135
02:07:33,200 --> 02:07:35,400
testifying they were there.
Why do you blow this off?

2136
02:07:36,100 --> 02:07:38,200
You've got three people
testifying not religion her.

2137
02:07:38,200 --> 02:07:44,300
That's why do we blow that off?
It's just we love ehat Quinn and

2138
02:07:44,500 --> 02:07:47,600
they're off.
And we trust them, you know, and

2139
02:07:47,600 --> 02:07:49,800
that's great.
I do too but everybody makes

2140
02:07:49,800 --> 02:07:52,700
mistakes.
So I just think it's been

2141
02:07:52,700 --> 02:07:56,400
carelessness that we haven't
seen this before but at the end

2142
02:07:56,400 --> 02:08:01,900
of the day, The saints were
reminded not taught about the

2143
02:08:01,907 --> 02:08:04,200
last church.
That's, that's the big

2144
02:08:04,200 --> 02:08:06,300
difference.
That's a huge difference.

2145
02:08:06,400 --> 02:08:09,400
Now I want to, I want to point
out one more thing and I see

2146
02:08:09,400 --> 02:08:16,800
this a modern scholarship, a lot
and it really annoys me People

2147
02:08:16,800 --> 02:08:20,000
are like, well, how come it
first.

2148
02:08:20,000 --> 02:08:23,000
They only gave this much of an
account and then later it's

2149
02:08:23,000 --> 02:08:24,800
double.
The size of later, this triple

2150
02:08:24,800 --> 02:08:28,800
the details, they're making it
up, you know, I seen that a lot

2151
02:08:28,800 --> 02:08:31,500
with Lauren, see, Willie stuff.
There's a lot of critique for

2152
02:08:31,500 --> 02:08:37,000
him, but but first of all, look
at, look at this, the gospel of

2153
02:08:37,000 --> 02:08:42,100
Mark is long.
Esteemed, my all good Scholars -

2154
02:08:42,100 --> 02:08:46,400
a couple Catholics bookmark was
written first guest, which The

2155
02:08:46,400 --> 02:08:48,500
gospels is a shortest.
Mark.

2156
02:08:48,900 --> 02:08:50,600
And guess what?
He ended.

2157
02:08:50,600 --> 02:08:54,500
The he ended the story too
early, and it made people upset,

2158
02:08:54,500 --> 02:08:57,800
and so people added the last
couple chapters to it.

2159
02:08:57,800 --> 02:08:59,300
That's not Mark.
Who wrote that.

2160
02:08:59,900 --> 02:09:02,400
So it was even shorter.
Yes.

2161
02:09:02,400 --> 02:09:04,900
Which book of the three synoptic
gospels?

2162
02:09:04,900 --> 02:09:08,300
Is the longest, Luke guess which
one was written last.

2163
02:09:08,900 --> 02:09:11,200
Luke.
This is common.

2164
02:09:11,500 --> 02:09:14,000
It happened with the first
Vision happens with accounts of

2165
02:09:14,008 --> 02:09:15,500
the restoration of the
priesthood.

2166
02:09:15,800 --> 02:09:17,600
This is Happened lots of times
in Scholars.

2167
02:09:17,600 --> 02:09:22,200
Are constantly saying who I see
conspiracy here, they're making

2168
02:09:22,200 --> 02:09:24,100
stuff up, and then they just
keep adding crap.

2169
02:09:24,100 --> 02:09:28,400
As time goes on, you know
historians, good historians.

2170
02:09:28,400 --> 02:09:32,000
Know, better than to fall into
this trap and I'll give it a

2171
02:09:32,008 --> 02:09:35,700
really easy example, if the
years 2020.

2172
02:09:36,200 --> 02:09:42,400
And I say that mean haired man.
That mean here, I'm sorry that

2173
02:09:42,400 --> 02:09:46,100
mean orange haired guy made it
mean tweet today.

2174
02:09:46,900 --> 02:09:51,100
And I tell you that, you don't
say gosh that Brock about know,

2175
02:09:51,100 --> 02:09:54,000
it's Biden.
Who's mean?

2176
02:09:54,100 --> 02:09:57,200
Orange haired guy, right.
I don't have to tell you.

2177
02:09:57,300 --> 02:10:04,300
It's so obvious in if I say that
orange haired guy made a mean

2178
02:10:04,300 --> 02:10:07,400
tweet this morning, I don't need
to explain to you.

2179
02:10:07,400 --> 02:10:09,400
That's Twitter.
I don't need to explain to you

2180
02:10:09,400 --> 02:10:11,000
social media.
I don't need to explain to you

2181
02:10:11,000 --> 02:10:13,000
internet.
I don't need to explain to.

2182
02:10:13,000 --> 02:10:16,100
You woke is mm.
I don't need to explain to you.

2183
02:10:16,400 --> 02:10:18,600
That he was a controversial,
pick figure because he didn't

2184
02:10:18,600 --> 02:10:20,900
like the radical left.
I don't need to explain to you

2185
02:10:20,907 --> 02:10:23,100
about the Socialist and
communist movement among the

2186
02:10:23,100 --> 02:10:25,800
Democrats, you know, all that
stuff.

2187
02:10:26,600 --> 02:10:28,800
I just say the orange haired
dude, made me tweet in your

2188
02:10:28,800 --> 02:10:33,200
like, oh what, what do you say?
That's all you ask, right?

2189
02:10:33,200 --> 02:10:37,500
If I give you the same statement
in 2050, there are a lot of

2190
02:10:37,500 --> 02:10:38,900
questions.
What the heck?

2191
02:10:38,900 --> 02:10:40,300
Are you talking about?
Who's the orange hair guy?

2192
02:10:40,800 --> 02:10:42,800
Oh, he's the president, which
one Donald Trump.

2193
02:10:42,800 --> 02:10:44,700
Oh yeah.
Yeah, I remember him having one

2194
02:10:44,700 --> 02:10:47,800
chair and why?
When people think it was me well

2195
02:10:47,800 --> 02:10:51,400
there is this thing called woke
isn't going on either you know,

2196
02:10:51,400 --> 02:10:54,300
you have to explain more stuff
as time goes on because people

2197
02:10:54,300 --> 02:11:00,500
don't know what was right normal
and in history, you don't say

2198
02:11:00,500 --> 02:11:03,400
this is conspiracy because now
he's explaining who Donald Trump

2199
02:11:03,400 --> 02:11:06,900
is, you know, he didn't say it
before, it was Donald Trump.

2200
02:11:06,900 --> 02:11:09,300
But now he's, you know, now,
he's trying to make us think

2201
02:11:09,300 --> 02:11:13,800
that's who it was.
He just, you know, who was and,

2202
02:11:14,300 --> 02:11:17,400
and this type of thing.
You should still have a

2203
02:11:17,407 --> 02:11:21,300
skeptical eye as a historian.
I'm not denying that but neither

2204
02:11:21,300 --> 02:11:24,100
do you assume conspiracy because
they're more details later.

2205
02:11:24,100 --> 02:11:29,100
Because guess what people ask
questions and is hey you were

2206
02:11:29,100 --> 02:11:31,300
the last charge, right?
Well, what else happened?

2207
02:11:31,300 --> 02:11:33,900
Grandpa?
You know, you were as you were

2208
02:11:33,900 --> 02:11:38,600
there but what else did he say?
Well, let me think, you know, I

2209
02:11:38,600 --> 02:11:40,700
don't know what I told you all
before, but this is what I

2210
02:11:40,700 --> 02:11:42,300
remember now.
Well, what about this?

2211
02:11:42,300 --> 02:11:44,800
And you can, so he starts
recalling, you answering more

2212
02:11:44,800 --> 02:11:47,500
questions in the ads, more.
I'll still like to do right that

2213
02:11:47,500 --> 02:11:48,300
damn.
Damn it.

2214
02:11:48,400 --> 02:11:50,500
That's interesting.
Yeah, no.

2215
02:11:51,000 --> 02:11:53,900
Yeah.
And going back to your to what

2216
02:11:53,900 --> 02:11:57,000
you were saying about as time
goes on maybe you get some more

2217
02:11:57,000 --> 02:11:59,000
details.
The other thing to remember is

2218
02:11:59,000 --> 02:12:03,600
that sometimes when you're that
close to an event, you tend to

2219
02:12:03,600 --> 02:12:07,300
just write down the things that
you find pertinent in that

2220
02:12:07,300 --> 02:12:10,300
moment.
Yes, right on how big of a deal

2221
02:12:10,300 --> 02:12:12,300
it is too late.
You don't understand how big of

2222
02:12:12,308 --> 02:12:14,800
a deal it is.
So maybe by the time we get to

2223
02:12:14,800 --> 02:12:20,500
Luke Luke not only has his
perspective but he has other

2224
02:12:20,500 --> 02:12:25,000
people's perspectives and he has
the, he has the gift of that

2225
02:12:25,000 --> 02:12:26,800
perspective to say, you know
what?

2226
02:12:26,900 --> 02:12:29,900
I didn't think that was
important, but gosh, I'm gonna

2227
02:12:29,900 --> 02:12:33,600
add that because now, with
hindsight, I can see what a big

2228
02:12:33,600 --> 02:12:38,400
deal that is and so it and a lot
of these things where we talked

2229
02:12:38,400 --> 02:12:42,900
about early church history it
may have well been 2,000 years

2230
02:12:42,900 --> 02:12:49,400
ago because when we look at
where we are now I tend to feel

2231
02:12:49,400 --> 02:12:54,600
like because of the tech, we
have 100 years ago, feels a lot

2232
02:12:54,600 --> 02:12:56,400
longer now than it did back in
the air.

2233
02:12:56,400 --> 02:13:01,200
Yeah, and so that gift of
hindsight, I think makes a big

2234
02:13:01,200 --> 02:13:04,900
difference.
It doesn't frankly Luke copied

2235
02:13:04,900 --> 02:13:09,600
Mark word for word in places,
Luke copied, Matthew word for

2236
02:13:09,600 --> 02:13:11,900
word in different places, you
know?

2237
02:13:11,900 --> 02:13:14,300
And, and so he's been some
stuff.

2238
02:13:14,300 --> 02:13:18,300
He's like that's just Spot on.
He didn't do that for the whole

2239
02:13:18,300 --> 02:13:20,900
accounts.
He's like, no, no, no.

2240
02:13:20,900 --> 02:13:24,100
This is what happened and he
seems contrary details because

2241
02:13:24,100 --> 02:13:26,700
he remembers it differently.
Well, it doesn't mean they're

2242
02:13:26,700 --> 02:13:29,100
making it up.
He saw it from a different

2243
02:13:29,100 --> 02:13:30,300
angle.
Right.

2244
02:13:30,300 --> 02:13:33,800
You know, in the Transfiguration
accounts, one of the women says,

2245
02:13:34,000 --> 02:13:36,500
you know, she was sitting down
breastfeeding so she couldn't

2246
02:13:36,500 --> 02:13:40,400
see what happened.
And she said is that Joseph's

2247
02:13:40,400 --> 02:13:44,400
voice in her husband's like,
yeah.

2248
02:13:44,400 --> 02:13:48,500
But it's Brigham talking.
You know, in one of the boys, he

2249
02:13:48,500 --> 02:13:50,900
can't see, he's too short.
He's like, looking through the

2250
02:13:50,900 --> 02:13:56,600
crowd, he's like, Dad is Joseph
resurrected and his dad's like

2251
02:13:57,100 --> 02:14:00,400
no, it's Brigham, but he's looks
like Joseph and you know.

2252
02:14:01,100 --> 02:14:04,600
And and so everybody's got their
different perspective of what

2253
02:14:04,600 --> 02:14:05,800
happened.
What's going on other people

2254
02:14:05,800 --> 02:14:09,700
like I didn't see anything.
Well, it was a crowded room

2255
02:14:09,800 --> 02:14:15,600
where you in the back.
You know there are lots of

2256
02:14:15,600 --> 02:14:18,100
different Reasons why somebody
might not have had the same

2257
02:14:18,100 --> 02:14:21,300
experience you know that's just
it doesn't have to be

2258
02:14:21,300 --> 02:14:24,900
conspiracy.
I think it's super helpful to be

2259
02:14:24,900 --> 02:14:31,100
have a healthy skepticism of
details so that exists but I

2260
02:14:31,500 --> 02:14:34,500
think you got to be careful that
why you're skeptic and it's easy

2261
02:14:34,500 --> 02:14:38,300
for non-trained historians to
write about crap and get things

2262
02:14:38,300 --> 02:14:43,300
wrong because they don't know
how common that sort of thing is

2263
02:14:43,300 --> 02:14:48,400
history.
Yeah and and And how you

2264
02:14:48,400 --> 02:14:50,300
explain.
It is exactly why history.

2265
02:14:50,300 --> 02:14:54,300
So important I've been on this
on this kick for a long time

2266
02:14:54,300 --> 02:14:57,000
with American history.
Just how important it is we get

2267
02:14:57,000 --> 02:15:00,600
to history, right?
Yeah and and I think the same

2268
02:15:00,600 --> 02:15:03,800
thing is happening within the
church, right now, if we don't

2269
02:15:03,800 --> 02:15:08,600
get the history, right, where
America is now in terms of its

2270
02:15:08,600 --> 02:15:13,900
political Stripes, that's where
the church will soon to be.

2271
02:15:14,100 --> 02:15:17,100
And I say the church, I mean the
LDS church but also In

2272
02:15:17,100 --> 02:15:19,500
fundamentalist, right?
If we don't get the history

2273
02:15:19,500 --> 02:15:23,500
right?
We will be in the same sort of

2274
02:15:23,500 --> 02:15:25,400
bad situation.
We find the country.

2275
02:15:25,900 --> 02:15:28,700
Yeah.
So what you know and it has huge

2276
02:15:28,700 --> 02:15:32,900
implications Drew when you start
talking about validating what

2277
02:15:32,900 --> 02:15:35,500
Brigham Young said when you
start talking about the multiple

2278
02:15:35,500 --> 02:15:41,400
accounts of the last charge.
Well that puts squarely upon the

2279
02:15:41,400 --> 02:15:50,200
westward church, that branch of
Mormonism A very very undeniable

2280
02:15:50,200 --> 02:15:53,700
and verifiable.
Stamp and seal of approval from

2281
02:15:53,700 --> 02:15:54,900
Joseph.
The prophet.

2282
02:15:55,500 --> 02:15:59,000
Yes, yes.
And I say that from his

2283
02:15:59,000 --> 02:16:04,400
perspective of thinking is a
fundamentalist that the LDS

2284
02:16:04,400 --> 02:16:06,500
church suffers a certain degree
of apostasy.

2285
02:16:07,300 --> 02:16:13,400
Yeah.
And it is at the same time and

2286
02:16:13,400 --> 02:16:17,100
this is a different branch from
what we were just staying at the

2287
02:16:17,100 --> 02:16:20,300
same time.
You know you look at Benjamin

2288
02:16:20,300 --> 02:16:23,300
have Johnson's counts statement
that while he gave the 12

2289
02:16:23,300 --> 02:16:26,200
Authority in connection with the
Council of 50.

2290
02:16:27,000 --> 02:16:30,000
Well there's a lot of
circumstantial evidence that we

2291
02:16:30,000 --> 02:16:32,900
can use to push that to
substantiate that.

2292
02:16:33,400 --> 02:16:37,299
But I've got 12 other accounts
that are vague about what

2293
02:16:37,299 --> 02:16:40,600
chordoma was one specifically
says high priest.

2294
02:16:40,900 --> 02:16:45,000
One says minute of the Holy
priesthood, I think a lot more

2295
02:16:45,000 --> 02:16:47,700
scholarship needs to be looked
into to see what are those

2296
02:16:47,700 --> 02:16:52,500
forms.
And Equally with 35 accounts,

2297
02:16:52,500 --> 02:16:55,500
mentioning the fullness of the
priesthood and another seven

2298
02:16:55,900 --> 02:16:59,100
suggesting that all the keys to
Joseph had or something like

2299
02:16:59,100 --> 02:17:03,500
that.
That's In context sounds like

2300
02:17:03,500 --> 02:17:05,200
the fullness of priesthood
because that's what all the

2301
02:17:05,200 --> 02:17:08,500
other accounts say and besides,
that's what he was preaching

2302
02:17:08,500 --> 02:17:10,299
from the standings, trying to
get the temple built.

2303
02:17:11,100 --> 02:17:15,400
You know when when you look at
all of that is he really saying

2304
02:17:15,500 --> 02:17:20,799
in conjunction with this Council
of Quorum of nitin which 75% of

2305
02:17:20,799 --> 02:17:25,200
the people who are in the shoot
I'm going to give this

2306
02:17:25,200 --> 02:17:26,900
backwards.
I don't remember. 75% of the

2307
02:17:26,907 --> 02:17:29,600
courtroom anointed was in this
Council 50 or vice versa.

2308
02:17:31,000 --> 02:17:34,799
I think it was formulated was
when I cancel 50 of the men.

2309
02:17:35,500 --> 02:17:41,600
That's a lot of crossover and
makes more sense from a, from a

2310
02:17:41,600 --> 02:17:44,299
teaching of what the fullness of
the priesthood perspective is

2311
02:17:44,299 --> 02:17:48,400
that it, they hold all keys and
are able to fill any position in

2312
02:17:48,400 --> 02:17:50,700
any.
Any situation, it makes sense.

2313
02:17:50,700 --> 02:17:52,400
That's what he was talking about
now.

2314
02:17:52,400 --> 02:17:55,600
He could have been referring to
other quorums and it's possible.

2315
02:17:55,600 --> 02:17:59,200
Joseph was in different form,
saying I want the 12 in

2316
02:17:59,200 --> 02:18:01,799
connection with this High
counsel, Soul which that's not

2317
02:18:01,799 --> 02:18:03,400
one of the examples.
I'm just making that up.

2318
02:18:04,200 --> 02:18:06,700
I'm withdrawing connection with
this Council, the High Council,

2319
02:18:07,400 --> 02:18:10,200
to lead the church and then
another venue says, I want this

2320
02:18:10,200 --> 02:18:15,600
12, the 12 in connection with
this Quorum of Elders to lead

2321
02:18:15,600 --> 02:18:18,000
the church.
And later he says I'm a 12 in

2322
02:18:18,000 --> 02:18:21,700
connection with the Council of
50 to lead the church and I want

2323
02:18:21,700 --> 02:18:24,400
the 12 in connection with a
quorum of anointed to lead the

2324
02:18:24,407 --> 02:18:28,600
kingdom in the church.
You know that very well could

2325
02:18:28,600 --> 02:18:30,400
be, is like, trying to say I
didn't establish all these

2326
02:18:30,400 --> 02:18:31,700
forms.
Throw them away.

2327
02:18:32,500 --> 02:18:35,600
Once you work with all of them.
Now, I'm not saying that's what

2328
02:18:35,600 --> 02:18:38,500
he meant.
I'm saying, that's a possibility

2329
02:18:38,500 --> 02:18:42,400
of what he meant, what he meant.
And if we look at this evidence

2330
02:18:42,500 --> 02:18:47,600
holistically and we don't have
to discard all of you hadn't,

2331
02:18:47,600 --> 02:18:50,400
Quince research, I'm Franklin,
super grateful for all that,

2332
02:18:50,400 --> 02:18:53,299
they've done for this research,
but I think we need to expand

2333
02:18:53,299 --> 02:18:55,299
upon it.
And frankly to honor what

2334
02:18:55,299 --> 02:18:57,900
they've done.
We need to build on it, not just

2335
02:18:58,000 --> 02:19:01,700
regurgitate it, but I think, At
this point with all this

2336
02:19:01,900 --> 02:19:05,900
information, we now have a duty
to stop and say, what Quorum did

2337
02:19:05,900 --> 02:19:09,600
Joseph mean and did he mean that
he really wanted them to have

2338
02:19:09,600 --> 02:19:12,299
keys and authority to lead
everybody to Spartan?

2339
02:19:12,299 --> 02:19:15,700
Infighting between the chorim's,
is do what's right thing and

2340
02:19:15,700 --> 02:19:18,500
bicker about it.
Or was he just saying?

2341
02:19:19,000 --> 02:19:21,600
I want this.
What I've created to stay all

2342
02:19:21,600 --> 02:19:26,900
together and not to be discarded
if that's the case.

2343
02:19:26,900 --> 02:19:29,299
Then we say well what is the
Council of 50 today?

2344
02:19:29,299 --> 02:19:35,100
Dang it.
And you know, where's our Quorum

2345
02:19:35,100 --> 02:19:36,900
of anointed today?
Okay, great.

2346
02:19:36,900 --> 02:19:38,799
We go to the temple, right?
We're in doubt.

2347
02:19:38,799 --> 02:19:40,000
Great.
We go to somebody's house to get

2348
02:19:40,000 --> 02:19:41,799
it down or whatever.
Your situation may be is a

2349
02:19:41,799 --> 02:19:48,100
fundamentalist but where's our
Quorum and and if Joseph saying

2350
02:19:48,100 --> 02:19:51,700
I don't want these things broken
up that shows at our own level

2351
02:19:51,700 --> 02:19:54,600
of disorganization.
So when you were asking earlier,

2352
02:19:54,600 --> 02:19:57,900
what's the implication of this,
I think it's huge.

2353
02:19:58,000 --> 02:20:00,100
I think it's bigger than just
saying, well, the saints were

2354
02:20:00,100 --> 02:20:02,100
right to call.
I'll break them, which I

2355
02:20:02,100 --> 02:20:06,100
personally think is pretty
evident from the record from the

2356
02:20:06,100 --> 02:20:09,800
last charge record.
I think it's bigger than that, I

2357
02:20:09,800 --> 02:20:12,500
think it's.
It's Joseph saying, look at the

2358
02:20:12,500 --> 02:20:15,400
foundation that created you need
to build upon this and don't

2359
02:20:15,400 --> 02:20:17,800
Despair and it don't throw it
away, keep it together.

2360
02:20:17,800 --> 02:20:25,000
And keep you know this is my
life's work, don't lose it every

2361
02:20:25,000 --> 02:20:28,200
Everybody the law of entropy
right?

2362
02:20:28,200 --> 02:20:30,600
Everybody moves towards apostasy
as an organization.

2363
02:20:30,800 --> 02:20:33,500
Just what happens, don't let
this happen.

2364
02:20:33,500 --> 02:20:35,200
Hold it together.
You've got 12 Min.

2365
02:20:35,200 --> 02:20:39,500
Now not just one, you got 12
holding things up together and

2366
02:20:39,500 --> 02:20:42,600
if they kill you off, Joseph
said multiple times last charge

2367
02:20:43,200 --> 02:20:44,900
ordained.
Somebody else to fill your spot.

2368
02:20:45,100 --> 02:20:47,100
You've got the pattern will
never be able to take this power

2369
02:20:47,100 --> 02:20:49,600
from the earth.
So here's the statement of

2370
02:20:49,600 --> 02:20:53,100
Joseph Smith prophesying.
The fullness of the priesthood

2371
02:20:53,100 --> 02:20:55,600
will never be taken from the
multiple times.

2372
02:20:55,700 --> 02:20:58,500
He says this, I've got other
counts of him saying the

2373
02:20:58,500 --> 02:21:01,700
priesthood of Melchizedek will.
Ever be taken from the earth.

2374
02:21:01,900 --> 02:21:04,400
Another canceling, the
priesthood of ironic priest of

2375
02:21:04,400 --> 02:21:05,700
will never be taken from the
earth.

2376
02:21:05,900 --> 02:21:09,800
Those are significant statements
all in the last charge context

2377
02:21:11,500 --> 02:21:15,300
and all by themselves.
Basically say okay these

2378
02:21:15,300 --> 02:21:17,900
breakout groups who say we only
have high priests or these

2379
02:21:17,900 --> 02:21:21,800
breakout groups who say we only
have you know the core Elders is

2380
02:21:21,800 --> 02:21:25,700
the highest priesthood that's
left there all the fullness of

2381
02:21:25,700 --> 02:21:27,700
the priesthood is out there.
Can you find it?

2382
02:21:30,200 --> 02:21:31,800
It's not going to be taken from
the Earth.

2383
02:21:31,900 --> 02:21:34,400
Where is it?
No.

2384
02:21:34,400 --> 02:21:38,500
And I think those are
significant repercussions of

2385
02:21:39,700 --> 02:21:44,200
this misunderstanding.
Absolutely, absolutely.

2386
02:21:44,600 --> 02:21:49,300
And I can't help but feel that
in some way.

2387
02:21:50,800 --> 02:21:56,100
All of Mormon them in some
respects our I think trying to

2388
02:21:56,100 --> 02:22:00,800
get back to that, right?
And and sometimes it feels like

2389
02:22:00,800 --> 02:22:03,500
we're stumbling in the dark
trying to figure it all out and

2390
02:22:03,500 --> 02:22:08,100
I think that's why research like
this is so important because

2391
02:22:08,200 --> 02:22:13,700
sometimes Well, don't let me say
this first as human beings.

2392
02:22:13,700 --> 02:22:16,000
We have this natural tendency to
look for the newest.

2393
02:22:16,000 --> 02:22:20,500
Brightest shiniest thing to fix
what's going on.

2394
02:22:21,000 --> 02:22:27,100
Yeah, oftentimes so we gotta
look back, we gotta say, what

2395
02:22:27,100 --> 02:22:30,800
was intended?
What was our starting point

2396
02:22:30,800 --> 02:22:34,800
where we at now, how do we
course-correct to get back

2397
02:22:34,800 --> 02:22:35,900
there?
Yeah.

2398
02:22:35,900 --> 02:22:40,200
And that's sometimes what I feel
like we miss when we read

2399
02:22:40,200 --> 02:22:42,100
history.
Yeah, times.

2400
02:22:42,100 --> 02:22:44,500
We read history because it's
interesting and it is

2401
02:22:44,500 --> 02:22:49,000
fascinating.
However, I think sometimes we

2402
02:22:49,000 --> 02:22:51,400
need to read it with the eye of
like a map.

2403
02:22:52,100 --> 02:22:55,300
Where were we when it start?
Where?

2404
02:22:55,300 --> 02:22:58,000
What was the destination?
And where are we now?

2405
02:22:58,600 --> 02:23:00,100
Oh crap.
We're off.

2406
02:23:00,400 --> 02:23:02,700
We're off bearing.
How do we get back on?

2407
02:23:03,200 --> 02:23:05,900
Yeah, and I think history
provides those answers.

2408
02:23:06,700 --> 02:23:09,700
Yeah, that's exactly what I was
trying to do with that

2409
02:23:09,700 --> 02:23:12,900
understanding item.
God teachings is to say what did

2410
02:23:12,900 --> 02:23:15,700
the Brethren teach?
And at the point I'm like I

2411
02:23:15,708 --> 02:23:17,200
don't know who I'll get Carly
is.

2412
02:23:17,200 --> 02:23:19,800
I don't have just a mother is I
didn't call it Christmas.

2413
02:23:19,800 --> 02:23:22,000
It is I don't care.
I don't bream is.

2414
02:23:22,200 --> 02:23:26,300
I know he was the Kimball is and
Jedediah Jim Grant is what did

2415
02:23:26,300 --> 02:23:29,500
they say?
You know what did Joseph say

2416
02:23:29,500 --> 02:23:31,900
about it?
And you know, I'm there's all

2417
02:23:31,900 --> 02:23:35,300
sorts of topics all by
themselves there but but that's

2418
02:23:35,300 --> 02:23:38,400
you know what?
I what I found was from what I

2419
02:23:38,408 --> 02:23:40,700
learned from that experience.
What I continue to do, when I do

2420
02:23:40,700 --> 02:23:46,300
research today's the same exact
thing I thought they're only

2421
02:23:46,300 --> 02:23:50,100
going to be 10 quote, say this,
and I'm going to have to compare

2422
02:23:50,100 --> 02:23:53,800
to these other sections of the
book in these other remote

2423
02:23:53,900 --> 02:23:57,400
places to help people understand
what he meant from context,

2424
02:23:57,400 --> 02:23:59,600
because people don't teach those
things anymore, you know.

2425
02:24:00,300 --> 02:24:03,500
But what I found was, when I put
all the quotes together, it was

2426
02:24:03,500 --> 02:24:05,900
pretty clear.
I didn't have much to say.

2427
02:24:06,800 --> 02:24:10,100
So I just left my analysis to be
these tiny little paragraphs at

2428
02:24:10,100 --> 02:24:14,600
the end of a long chapter.
And I find the same thing with

2429
02:24:14,600 --> 02:24:16,500
this.
If you read all the last charge

2430
02:24:16,500 --> 02:24:19,500
against forget what?
Quinn wrote forget what he had.

2431
02:24:19,500 --> 02:24:24,100
Wrote forget with, you know,
Bradshaw Road or whoever just

2432
02:24:24,100 --> 02:24:27,500
read the original counts, all
together and are you still

2433
02:24:27,500 --> 02:24:29,800
convinced that this is one time
event?

2434
02:24:31,100 --> 02:24:36,100
If you do should, um, you know,
is there's no way that was a

2435
02:24:36,100 --> 02:24:40,300
one-time event and then you just
say, well what does that change

2436
02:24:40,300 --> 02:24:42,900
for me?
What does that mean?

2437
02:24:43,300 --> 02:24:45,600
What are the repercussions?
The just the same question you

2438
02:24:45,600 --> 02:24:49,300
were asking earlier and I
explained I fully expect and I

2439
02:24:49,300 --> 02:24:53,700
hope that when people read all
of them they'll come with some

2440
02:24:54,100 --> 02:24:57,600
you know, observation.
I totally missed in five years

2441
02:24:57,600 --> 02:24:58,800
from now.
Someone is going to say Joe and

2442
02:24:58,800 --> 02:25:01,400
taking a lunch.
What's What you probably totally

2443
02:25:01,400 --> 02:25:05,600
missed this detail and I'll go,
I got to do second edition.

2444
02:25:05,600 --> 02:25:08,300
That's awesome.
You know, I totally hope that

2445
02:25:08,300 --> 02:25:12,000
happens and I wrote in my
introduction to this book.

2446
02:25:12,000 --> 02:25:18,300
I'm like, I'm abandoning all the
erudite academic conventions

2447
02:25:18,600 --> 02:25:21,500
that I've been pretty diligent
with previous books.

2448
02:25:21,900 --> 02:25:25,300
And that's not totally true, but
this is me inviting

2449
02:25:26,200 --> 02:25:28,600
Conversation.
This is me inviting.

2450
02:25:29,800 --> 02:25:33,700
Let's talk about this.
It's open discourse about these

2451
02:25:33,700 --> 02:25:35,400
things.
This is not me.

2452
02:25:35,400 --> 02:25:38,500
Let me prove my point.
This is me saying, let's go back

2453
02:25:38,500 --> 02:25:41,700
to the original quotes like
you're saying and see what we

2454
02:25:41,700 --> 02:25:45,500
messed up in.
Okay, so what, so, women were

2455
02:25:45,500 --> 02:25:46,500
right.
What does that mean?

2456
02:25:47,400 --> 02:25:49,400
Well, it wasn't a priesthood
thing.

2457
02:25:50,100 --> 02:25:53,800
Okay, that's a starter was mean
to kids were there?

2458
02:25:54,200 --> 02:25:56,800
It means he wasn't shy about
talking about this in public.

2459
02:25:57,500 --> 02:25:59,500
Was it mean that he gave it on,
at least 11:00?

2460
02:25:59,600 --> 02:26:02,200
It means he wanted everybody to
know.

2461
02:26:04,000 --> 02:26:08,400
This was not a secret recipe is
now part of a, you know, the

2462
02:26:08,400 --> 02:26:10,300
secret Corman secret
organizations and all this.

2463
02:26:10,300 --> 02:26:13,200
This was a Joseph saying okay
I'm in the middle of doing all

2464
02:26:13,200 --> 02:26:15,800
this and getting death threats.
I want everybody to know, this

2465
02:26:15,800 --> 02:26:18,300
is what I've been doing in.
Follow the 12, they'll teach

2466
02:26:18,300 --> 02:26:22,000
you, whatever you need.
No, that's what it was and and

2467
02:26:22,000 --> 02:26:24,400
more I don't even know what more
is, you know.

2468
02:26:24,900 --> 02:26:27,700
And then you know, I'm putting
that context.

2469
02:26:27,700 --> 02:26:30,500
The Transfiguration of Brigham
Young is suffer similar

2470
02:26:30,500 --> 02:26:33,200
problems.
I'll though it's maybe less

2471
02:26:33,200 --> 02:26:36,200
active.
Interesting academically, it's

2472
02:26:36,200 --> 02:26:39,500
inspiring to read all the
different accounts, it really?

2473
02:26:39,900 --> 02:26:42,100
Sorry.
That's that's to me.

2474
02:26:42,100 --> 02:26:44,000
The gospel is about miracles to
me.

2475
02:26:44,000 --> 02:26:47,200
The gospel is about awesome
things that happen and if

2476
02:26:47,200 --> 02:26:48,900
somebody's poo-pooing and
Miracle.

2477
02:26:49,300 --> 02:26:51,700
I'm so sorry for them that they
haven't seen him.

2478
02:26:52,100 --> 02:26:55,400
I've had way too many spiritual
experiences to blow off

2479
02:26:55,400 --> 02:26:59,000
anything, their accounts of
Joseph Smith rising from the

2480
02:26:59,000 --> 02:27:02,400
ground while he's talking.
I haven't seen that happen, but

2481
02:27:02,400 --> 02:27:05,200
guess what?
I have seen enough stuff, I

2482
02:27:05,200 --> 02:27:07,600
don't doubt it.
I mean, I don't know.

2483
02:27:07,600 --> 02:27:08,900
It's true.
I'm not saying you got a

2484
02:27:08,908 --> 02:27:13,400
testimony of it, but I'm like
possible to me why not?

2485
02:27:13,800 --> 02:27:17,600
You know, I've I thought well
ever since I joined the LDS

2486
02:27:17,600 --> 02:27:23,200
church and start studying
Mormonism in depth. the one

2487
02:27:23,200 --> 02:27:28,000
thing that's always come back to
me, is that If we're not having

2488
02:27:28,100 --> 02:27:32,700
those experiences whatever they
are, right?

2489
02:27:32,700 --> 02:27:36,300
You and I talked about a couple
that we had if we're not having

2490
02:27:36,300 --> 02:27:41,100
those we are not we are not
sampling.

2491
02:27:41,100 --> 02:27:44,800
Some of the best and sweetest
fruit that the gospel has to

2492
02:27:44,800 --> 02:27:46,200
offer.
Yes.

2493
02:27:46,300 --> 02:27:51,900
And if you if you really read
Joseph Smith and I until I'm

2494
02:27:51,900 --> 02:27:55,000
proven wrong, I will go to my
grave singing this song.

2495
02:27:56,300 --> 02:27:58,300
You get to feel out of
everything.

2496
02:27:58,300 --> 02:28:01,400
Joseph says, when he's talking
to people, as I had my

2497
02:28:01,400 --> 02:28:03,800
experience with God and guess
what?

2498
02:28:04,000 --> 02:28:06,300
You can have one too.
You should have warned us.

2499
02:28:06,900 --> 02:28:09,500
Yes.
So if we're not striving for

2500
02:28:09,700 --> 02:28:14,100
that level of revelation that
level of Miracle, we're really

2501
02:28:14,100 --> 02:28:16,300
selling ourselves short as
Mormons.

2502
02:28:17,400 --> 02:28:19,000
Absolutely.
I love that.

2503
02:28:19,000 --> 02:28:24,600
You said that.
And I When I was on my mission,

2504
02:28:25,700 --> 02:28:31,600
I read Nephi's account of the
tree of life, and I just

2505
02:28:31,600 --> 02:28:33,500
completely fell in love with
that idea.

2506
02:28:33,500 --> 02:28:36,700
He says, the angel comes, he
says, what do you want to see?

2507
02:28:37,300 --> 02:28:39,100
He says, I want to know what my
father saw.

2508
02:28:40,200 --> 02:28:42,000
What do you believe your
father's side?

2509
02:28:42,900 --> 02:28:44,500
Well, that's kind of a dumb
question.

2510
02:28:44,700 --> 02:28:47,700
What the heck, am I doing?
I'm getting you out of Heaven.

2511
02:28:48,000 --> 02:28:49,700
Asking you questions.
You of course.

2512
02:28:49,700 --> 02:28:54,500
That's what I want to see, you
know, but it really stuck with

2513
02:28:54,500 --> 02:28:57,900
me and then in when he talked to
Laman and Lemuel, he doesn't say

2514
02:28:58,400 --> 02:29:00,300
you guys are lame because you
never pray.

2515
02:29:00,900 --> 02:29:04,900
They said the Lord does chose no
such things on task and these

2516
02:29:04,900 --> 02:29:06,400
were the sons of the prophets.
They weren't saying, we don't

2517
02:29:06,400 --> 02:29:09,300
know how to say family prayer.
We don't know how to say grace.

2518
02:29:09,500 --> 02:29:13,400
So Vermeil, they're saying we
don't get Revelation like that.

2519
02:29:14,500 --> 02:29:19,500
And Nephi's response is to say
that's because you Wicked in

2520
02:29:19,500 --> 02:29:21,900
your heart, not heart, your
heart in your heart and you need

2521
02:29:21,900 --> 02:29:26,400
to repent.
He doesn't say, well, I'm going

2522
02:29:26,400 --> 02:29:28,600
to be the new prophet and so you
need to follow me.

2523
02:29:29,000 --> 02:29:31,800
You need to hang your laurels on
me because I will receive

2524
02:29:31,800 --> 02:29:33,900
Revelation for you.
Never, you would are worried.

2525
02:29:34,800 --> 02:29:37,500
He's saying you're waking
because you are not having the

2526
02:29:37,500 --> 02:29:45,000
heavens opened and Joseph Smith.
When he says God will not show

2527
02:29:45,200 --> 02:29:48,100
hasn't done anything to me or
brother Brigham that he won't

2528
02:29:48,100 --> 02:29:50,700
show unto you.
He's saying that in a time of

2529
02:29:50,700 --> 02:29:54,500
his life, he said some pretty
massive experiences Forget the

2530
02:29:54,500 --> 02:29:57,400
first Vision alone.
I mean he's had some pretty

2531
02:29:57,400 --> 02:30:01,600
massive experiences on every
level and and you know there's a

2532
02:30:01,608 --> 02:30:04,000
more only seven things as if
you're not experiencing these

2533
02:30:04,300 --> 02:30:08,600
Miracles well want to you but
the thing that I love about

2534
02:30:08,600 --> 02:30:12,700
Joseph and that I don't see a
modern Mormonism, even in

2535
02:30:12,700 --> 02:30:19,500
fundamentalism lot of time, his
Joseph was saying, I get these

2536
02:30:19,500 --> 02:30:22,100
experiences because I want them
and guess what?

2537
02:30:22,100 --> 02:30:24,300
God loves you just as much as he
does me and it gives you the

2538
02:30:24,300 --> 02:30:27,500
same experiences and if you
don't believe that you'll give

2539
02:30:27,500 --> 02:30:29,800
them to bring them to the same
ones as Brigham.

2540
02:30:30,400 --> 02:30:34,600
This is for you.
This isn't for us to say, wow.

2541
02:30:34,600 --> 02:30:36,900
Joseph is awesome and I sure
wish I was like him.

2542
02:30:37,500 --> 02:30:42,200
He's saying you can be like me.
I'm not this unsurmountable

2543
02:30:42,600 --> 02:30:47,300
goal.
I'm not this ethereal heroic

2544
02:30:47,300 --> 02:30:50,600
mythical.
And I am a normal man.

2545
02:30:50,600 --> 02:30:51,700
Just like you.
Brigham Young.

2546
02:30:51,700 --> 02:30:53,200
One of my favorite quotes is
Brigham Young.

2547
02:30:53,600 --> 02:30:57,500
He said, I want I feel like
rejoicing and singing.

2548
02:30:57,500 --> 02:30:59,700
Hallelujah, Every Time I Think
of the Prophet Joseph that I

2549
02:30:59,708 --> 02:31:04,900
knew him but the context is he
saying, Joseph did some really

2550
02:31:04,900 --> 02:31:07,900
dumb things and he was a
fallible human being.

2551
02:31:08,000 --> 02:31:11,300
And I thought if God could work
with somebody like that and

2552
02:31:11,300 --> 02:31:16,300
maybe there was a chance for me
to and all of those principles

2553
02:31:16,300 --> 02:31:17,800
is echoing.
What you just said.

2554
02:31:17,900 --> 02:31:23,500
And I had for a long time in my
life and I usually don't kind of

2555
02:31:24,000 --> 02:31:26,300
throw this out there, but since
you said it, I just want to say

2556
02:31:26,300 --> 02:31:27,800
a hearty.
Amen to that.

2557
02:31:28,100 --> 02:31:30,000
I have for a long time.
In my life, I will stop.

2558
02:31:30,000 --> 02:31:32,300
And say, when was the last time
that I had a spiritual

2559
02:31:32,300 --> 02:31:35,500
experience.
And I'm not saying, I felt the

2560
02:31:35,500 --> 02:31:40,000
spirit Sunday school, I'm saying
gift of tongues, I'm saying

2561
02:31:40,000 --> 02:31:43,800
Vision, I'm saying, Angelic,
visitation I'm saying, Heavens

2562
02:31:43,800 --> 02:31:47,800
open, I'm saying, whatever, you
know, my daughter.

2563
02:31:48,000 --> 02:31:50,500
Healed of several
life-threatening conditions.

2564
02:31:50,900 --> 02:31:56,000
My other daughter being bit by a
brown recluse and having her

2565
02:31:56,100 --> 02:32:00,800
muscles missing in flesh, torn
out because of the Venom and

2566
02:32:00,800 --> 02:32:03,500
growing it back by the next
morning after blessing.

2567
02:32:04,200 --> 02:32:08,000
How often was the last time I
had experienced like that and if

2568
02:32:08,000 --> 02:32:13,900
my answer was, it's been six to
eight months, then my thought

2569
02:32:13,900 --> 02:32:16,400
isn't oh, well, I'm just an
average, normal, Mormon, having

2570
02:32:16,400 --> 02:32:20,000
my Mormon experience My thought
is, I should probably repent of

2571
02:32:20,000 --> 02:32:22,200
something.
What's my problem?

2572
02:32:23,100 --> 02:32:26,200
Those like you're saying those
are some of the best fruits that

2573
02:32:26,200 --> 02:32:28,300
were meant to have men.
Are that they are attacked.

2574
02:32:28,500 --> 02:32:30,900
That they might have joy.
That's the joy.

2575
02:32:31,200 --> 02:32:34,000
It's those spiritual experience,
it's a spiritual fruit.

2576
02:32:34,100 --> 02:32:36,900
And if you're not having them,
you're missing out.

2577
02:32:37,300 --> 02:32:40,600
And that's not say think those
people are wicked.

2578
02:32:40,700 --> 02:32:42,500
I'm saying they're missing out
there.

2579
02:32:43,000 --> 02:32:46,600
There's fruit offered to them
and they're not partaking, and

2580
02:32:46,600 --> 02:32:49,900
it's sad thing for Because they
can't have it.

2581
02:32:50,200 --> 02:32:53,000
They don't have to be perfect.
I don't have to obey every

2582
02:32:53,000 --> 02:32:56,700
single 562 Commandments, they
can find check it off on their

2583
02:32:56,700 --> 02:32:59,500
list.
You know, God just says, I just

2584
02:32:59,500 --> 02:33:01,200
want you to love me and try
hard.

2585
02:33:01,800 --> 02:33:04,900
And if you're doing your best,
I'm going to bless you.

2586
02:33:05,100 --> 02:33:08,100
If you have faith, ask if you
haven't seen somebody healed of

2587
02:33:08,100 --> 02:33:11,900
cancer, you haven't lived yet.
If you haven't seen somebody

2588
02:33:12,100 --> 02:33:14,200
speak in tongues, you haven't
lived yet.

2589
02:33:14,500 --> 02:33:17,800
If you haven't interpreted
times, you haven't lived yet.

2590
02:33:17,900 --> 02:33:19,900
Let me show you the joys of the
Gospel.

2591
02:33:20,200 --> 02:33:23,100
It isn't just to argue about
whether or not Council 50 happen

2592
02:33:23,400 --> 02:33:28,800
to have the last charge on March
23rd or 26 or April 17.

2593
02:33:29,300 --> 02:33:31,500
You know.
It started December 23rd and a

2594
02:33:31,508 --> 02:33:35,100
quorum of anointed meeting with
the shiba Smith recording it and

2595
02:33:35,100 --> 02:33:37,200
ended.
Probably a couple days before he

2596
02:33:37,200 --> 02:33:40,200
died on his way to Carthage.
You know.

2597
02:33:40,200 --> 02:33:43,900
That's a six-month period of
time that he was preaching these

2598
02:33:43,900 --> 02:33:47,800
things to the Saints, you know
so we can argue about that.

2599
02:33:48,300 --> 02:33:54,400
But if you had a vision
recently, as God has heard your

2600
02:33:54,400 --> 02:33:58,400
prayers a healed somebody for
you, has he changed somebody

2601
02:33:58,400 --> 02:34:03,600
dramatically in their heart and
save them from horrible

2602
02:34:03,600 --> 02:34:06,000
depression and now they're happy
and whatever it doesn't matter

2603
02:34:06,000 --> 02:34:08,700
what the miracle is, that's for
the individual.

2604
02:34:09,400 --> 02:34:12,300
But that's that's the whole core
of the gospel and that's what we

2605
02:34:12,300 --> 02:34:15,500
should be.
It's what this is all about, you

2606
02:34:15,500 --> 02:34:18,000
know, it's not just the detail
of what date did.

2607
02:34:18,100 --> 02:34:19,400
Happen again, or you got it
wrong.

2608
02:34:19,400 --> 02:34:22,500
There are four people who
testified that about three do

2609
02:34:22,500 --> 02:34:24,600
bit academic, you know?
Right.

2610
02:34:24,800 --> 02:34:27,500
Right.
Cuz Anyway.

2611
02:34:28,400 --> 02:34:29,500
No.
Absolutely.

2612
02:34:30,100 --> 02:34:32,100
Well, when do you think those
books will come out Drew?

2613
02:34:33,100 --> 02:34:38,400
I am hoping and, and I'm
horrible at this detail, but I

2614
02:34:38,400 --> 02:34:43,600
am hoping that I will at least
have for pre-order available the

2615
02:34:43,600 --> 02:34:47,500
last charge and Transfiguration
book by Thanksgiving and ice.

2616
02:34:47,500 --> 02:34:51,700
I'm back close.
If not, maybe it'll be like

2617
02:34:51,700 --> 02:34:55,200
pre-order for Christmas and dang
it, you know, least Amazon does

2618
02:34:55,200 --> 02:34:58,400
print on demand and hey, As long
as it's before Christmas.

2619
02:34:58,400 --> 02:35:01,800
So let me tell you, I am the
most predictable man in the

2620
02:35:01,800 --> 02:35:05,500
world, every year for Christmas.
It's like, get the old man, some

2621
02:35:05,500 --> 02:35:07,500
books, right?
I got older kids now.

2622
02:35:07,500 --> 02:35:10,500
I'm like, load me up.
I'm good as long as you got

2623
02:35:10,500 --> 02:35:12,800
those bad boys, ready?
You know, a couple weeks before

2624
02:35:12,800 --> 02:35:14,700
Christmas right.
We're gonna be good.

2625
02:35:14,700 --> 02:35:19,100
Drew so.
Well, dude, this was awesome.

2626
02:35:19,100 --> 02:35:21,800
I had such a good time likewise.
Thank you.

2627
02:35:22,300 --> 02:35:24,700
Would you mind coming back on
because my, I feel like I could

2628
02:35:24,700 --> 02:35:26,600
pick your brain about history
for a long time.

2629
02:35:26,700 --> 02:35:30,000
Oh, absolutely.
Yeah, I, you know, I have a

2630
02:35:30,000 --> 02:35:32,800
really big weakness and
sometimes I feel like hash and

2631
02:35:32,800 --> 02:35:37,100
kind of neglecting my family,
but, you know, I had a before I

2632
02:35:37,108 --> 02:35:41,500
moved from Missouri, I had on a
multiple occasions, people's pop

2633
02:35:41,500 --> 02:35:44,100
up and spend like four hours
just talking because but with me

2634
02:35:44,100 --> 02:35:47,200
and I'm like, dang, I didn't get
this thing into the got that get

2635
02:35:47,200 --> 02:35:49,000
done but boy I sure feel happy
now.

2636
02:35:49,700 --> 02:35:52,500
Yeah.
So yeah, I'd love to I'm always

2637
02:35:52,500 --> 02:35:57,000
I'm always open to chat about a
gospel stuff and and I think

2638
02:35:57,000 --> 02:35:59,900
dialogue is super, super
important.

2639
02:35:59,900 --> 02:36:05,300
And in, frankly, not being part
of a group presently, that's

2640
02:36:05,300 --> 02:36:08,600
that's part of that something
that I'm missing.

2641
02:36:08,700 --> 02:36:13,700
So, yeah, absolutely Floyd's do
this again because I love

2642
02:36:13,700 --> 02:36:16,200
talking to you, man.
Let's let's do this again.

2643
02:36:17,200 --> 02:36:20,300
Likewise sounds great.
Yeah, up to let me, let me take

2644
02:36:20,300 --> 02:36:22,000
one quick thing for your
listeners.

2645
02:36:23,600 --> 02:36:27,200
I have kept up with Adam God.
Things.

2646
02:36:27,200 --> 02:36:32,800
And if you buy my book or have a
copy of it and want to know what

2647
02:36:32,800 --> 02:36:36,500
has changed since 2005, I've got
like a four-page, document is

2648
02:36:36,500 --> 02:36:39,000
all that I found.
And people have found forming

2649
02:36:39,100 --> 02:36:42,700
given to me type thing of
updated quotes and I give that

2650
02:36:42,700 --> 02:36:44,300
free to anybody wants to email
me.

2651
02:36:44,300 --> 02:36:45,900
It's just my name.
Drew Briny Gmail.

2652
02:36:47,800 --> 02:36:50,700
I have a website, forgot,
Mormon, teachings, and I've got

2653
02:36:50,700 --> 02:36:53,700
free stuff on there.
It's dead right now, but if

2654
02:36:53,700 --> 02:36:58,000
you'd like to know more about
DNC 76, Quite a conversion and

2655
02:36:58,000 --> 02:37:01,300
how it compares to the original
and an annotated version of.

2656
02:37:01,300 --> 02:37:04,300
We got a free version of that.
If it's not online, hit me with

2657
02:37:04,300 --> 02:37:08,100
an e-mail, I'm happy too.
Happy to, you know, turn those

2658
02:37:08,100 --> 02:37:10,200
things out at doesn't cost
anything.

2659
02:37:10,200 --> 02:37:12,900
If they're just PDFs that you
print them out, 400 pages of

2660
02:37:12,908 --> 02:37:17,100
whatever it is and really
amazing stuff and it's I'll

2661
02:37:17,100 --> 02:37:19,700
probably publish it eventually.
But until then it's free to

2662
02:37:19,700 --> 02:37:21,300
anybody.
Who'd like stuff.

2663
02:37:22,000 --> 02:37:26,300
Awesome dude, do me a favor when
your website gets back online.

2664
02:37:26,700 --> 02:37:29,400
Let me know because I'll
announce that on the podcast as

2665
02:37:29,400 --> 02:37:31,600
well.
Okay, sounds sounds great.

2666
02:37:31,600 --> 02:37:35,100
I don't even know why it's down.
So I'm just, like, hoping my

2667
02:37:35,100 --> 02:37:38,900
backups are strong.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

2668
02:37:38,900 --> 02:37:41,300
So little dude, like I said,
this was awesome.

2669
02:37:41,300 --> 02:37:43,900
I'm serious.
Let's do this again and I tell

2670
02:37:43,900 --> 02:37:47,400
all my guess you've been on once
you have a standing invitation

2671
02:37:47,400 --> 02:37:49,300
to come back on.
So if you come up with something

2672
02:37:49,300 --> 02:37:51,400
that you think Dave, this is
awesome.

2673
02:37:51,400 --> 02:37:54,300
I'd love to talk about this.
You tell me and we'll make the

2674
02:37:54,300 --> 02:37:58,000
time alright.
Sounds like Sounds good.

2675
02:37:58,100 --> 02:38:00,300
Bye everybody.
God bless, take care.