EPISODE #99: EXPOLRING BRANCHES OF MORMON FUNDAMENTALISM SERIES-A MORMON FUNDAMENTALIST COMMUNITY IN MISSOURI W/SETH LAUB

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So today on the podcast, we're
going to be picking back up the

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Exploring the Branches of
Fundamentalism series.

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Today on this episode, I have on
Seth Lobb.

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Now Seth is the grandson of the
man who first received a call

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from the Lord to go back to
Missouri and begin to establish

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a settlement of Mormon
fundamentalists.

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In this episode, we cover the
genesis of the move to Missouri,

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the hardship, struggles, and
miracles that accompanied that

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move out there.
From there, we cover other

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significant events that happened
as what started out as just a

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handful of family and friends
became a thriving community of

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Mormon fundamentalists.
We then finish up talking about

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how this group of
fundamentalists ended up feeling

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the pull to build a
fundamentalist temple in rural

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Missouri.
Now, as you listen to this

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episode, I think you'll be
amazed at how similar some of

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their experiences have been to
those of the early days of the

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Restoration.
That and more on this episode of

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the Mormon Renegade podcast.
Look, it's no secret that our

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society has become much more
crude and coarse.

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To become and raise men and
women of virtue and character is

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a Herculean task.
To help with this, I've recently

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wrote and published a book.
Now, back in the 1700s,

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Washington had a book called
Rules of Civility and Decent

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Behavior and Company and
Conversation.

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It was a book with 110 rules
that talked about how to conduct

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yourself like a civilized person
in society, something that

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today's society is sorely
lacking.

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What I did is I went back
through the book and I

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reinterpreted his original
sayings for the 21st century.

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So the book is laid out in a way
in which you see Washington's

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original rule.
Right below that is my

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explanation for the 21st
century, and below that you'll

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find two or three examples of
where to use this in the real

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world.
Now, to go along with this,

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there's a workbook that helps
parents teach these principles

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and practices to their kids.
To find the book, go to

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mormonrenegade.com, go to the
bottom of the page, search out

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the blog post, and order your
copy.

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Today, I can bear personal
testimony from personal

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experience that this is an
invaluable tool to help you

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raise men and women of virtue
and character.

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You're listening to the Mormon
Renegade podcast, Seth, how's

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everything going, man?
Going good.

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Going real good.
Good.

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So I got to tell you, First off
thanks for for taking me and my

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my family through the temple
when we got there and and just

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kind of being there as as we
were there, I really appreciated

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it, man.
You guys went to town out there

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in Missouri?
Yeah, that was that was our

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pleasure.
It was good meeting you and your

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family.
Yeah, no, we we really enjoyed

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it.
So I brought you on today to

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talk about kind of your family
and and 'cause you guys did

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something that's very unique in
in Mormon fundamentalism, which

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is not so much splitting off
from another group.

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I feel like that happens
frequently.

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But it was the fact that you
guys went out there and like,

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left Utah and went out to
Missouri and then like carved it

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out right.
I mean, you guys really went to

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town on that and and I think
that is just so commendable.

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But when did when did you guys
decide to make that move, right.

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I mean, it's it's a heck of a
move going from Utah to

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Missouri.
Yeah, so.

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One thing I can say about my
grandpa is he liked to repeat

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stories and I wasn't.
I wasn't born when you know, my

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mom was actually pregnant with
me when in fact she thought she

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was maybe gonna have me the
first time they that she came

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out.
Shortly after they bought the

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place.
But I did hear the story, you

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know hundreds of times.
So I can relate kind of what set

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that all in motion.
So maybe I'll start in Utah.

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We we we lived.
My grandparents and parents

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lived in enterprise.
And basically they bought they

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bought what they were trying to
carve out a refuge right.

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So it was it up ended up being
1100 a it's called Mitaka.

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We still, we still no, don't own
it because it's consecrated

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property, but we still go out
and visit basically he.

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Long story short, I won't go
into how we came out of the

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church.
So grandpa, My grandpa was in

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the church, found
fundamentalism, found the AUB

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and him and Owen.
Or not Owen.

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But Ruin hit it off pretty well.
He had, he's had a lot of

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respect for ruin.
Has talked in high, high regard

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of Ruin.
Well, he ended up having a dream

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that Ruin was standing in in the
Wash their talk when he was

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familiar with the area because
they were having horses and

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cows.
It's about dude as the crow

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flies it's probably 40 miles
from Enterprise 40 miles South

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in between Enterprise and
Mesquite.

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But he seed ruling sitting there
and in the river and and a bunch

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of people were coming coming
across the river and they they

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were scooping up water and what
somebody says oh this water's

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it's gross.
It tastes like malt.

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And then Roland said, it won't
hurt you.

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Darrell and Stephen have been
for years the river water there.

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And then Roland asked in his
dream.

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This was all a dream.
Roland asked him if he would, if

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he would help him build a
refuge.

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And Grandpa said, sure, in the
dream, right?

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And so.
The the he was going to go up

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and talk to ruling they were
meeting at prayer meetings not

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in Salt Lake did they drive up
there.

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So he was going to go up and
talk to ruling about this dream

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he had well the week ruling was
murdered you know before he got

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up there.
So that was right about the time

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Ruling was murdered and so that
was kind of the inspiration to

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buy that piece.
So they went down and they

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looked at it.
So it was 900 acres and then

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there was another part.
It was 200 acres.

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That was that was like twice as
much per acre than it was for

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the 900 acres.
And so they went out to pray

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about whether they should get
the the other 200 acres or

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whether they should just get the
900, not worry about the two

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acres or the 200 acres.
And basically Grandpa when they

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went down, Jim Staley name
names, it's not important.

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But I will name Grandpa because
that's the story that I'm

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following.
So Grandpa Steven basically went

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up the road and kneeled down and
was praying that they should get

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this property.
And he said the Spirit told him

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that this was the richest piece
of property of all of it.

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So for sure get it.
And so they end up buying in.

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In his mind, he thought gold,
right?

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He's, he was kind of a
prospector.

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I think everybody from that era
kind of was.

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So he was thinking, we're going
to find a gold mine, right?

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And on this piece?
Well, about two months after

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they bought it and this is the
very top of the ranch.

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It's the highest point in the
whole property.

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Literally a spring broke out
right on the property line out

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of the mountain, just gushed out
of the mountain.

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And when it first broke out it
was 400 gallons a minute of of

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water.
So a tremendous, A tremendous

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amount of water.
So when they first moved out

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there, obviously they were
hauling, they were hauling water

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from the river, but.
I I was out there till I was

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about 16.
That's when we finally made it

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to Missouri.
But my whole life we had gravity

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fed water from a spring, right.
So just free water.

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And it worked out really, really
good.

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So that's kind of been like a
faith you know, promoting story

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in the family.
Well, we were just like any

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other good Mormon family and
that was that Missouri was going

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to be wiped clean, right.
The yellow dog not so much as a

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yellow dog and.
Well, Grandpa was.

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They're basically hunkering in
to to build a refuge, right?

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You'll see a lot of Mormons
around that time.

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Refuge was the idea, I guess,
like a lot of people, my

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grandpa's age, it would have
been, oh, no, this would have

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been before that.
I don't even know, like 80s, you

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know?
Well, actually, no, it would

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have.
Yeah, you're right.

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It would have been 84.
Right, right.

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Where we are now, this is in the
peak of the Reagan years during

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the Cold War, right.
And like I, I wasn't very old,

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but I was probably, I don't
know, somewhere between 6:00 and

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8:00.
And I remember, you know, the

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the IT, it was kind of palpable,
right.

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I mean, everyone was worried
about going to war with Russia

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and exchanging nukes.
So is that kind of what they

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were seeing, you know, is that
what they were preparing for?

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Did I lose you, Seth?
Yeah, you lost me for a second

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there.
Oh, there you go.

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Yeah, I can hear you now.
Anyway, that that was about 84

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and I remember as a kid everyone
was convinced we were going to

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go to war with Russia, right.
And and is that kind of what

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they were hunkering in for was
was that exchange, so to speak?

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Well, yeah, I mean I know that
you know, the story was was is

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he started, they started.
They had a united order.

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So there's about, well, let me
see, about four or five families

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they had a united order they're
working together with.

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And grandpa was working on a
sailor, a sailor by King

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Springs.
He he, he put his homestead just

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right by the spring that broke
out of the mountain.

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So he was at the top of the
Canyon there and he was building

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a homestead.
And he heard a voice calling his

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name, you know, And he said,
well, it was an, it was an

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audible voice to him.
And so he thought it was someone

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from the house.
And he went down to the house

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and asked if anybody is whites
were calling him or if anybody

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called him.
They're like, no, we weren't

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calling you.
So we went back up and same

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thing.
He heard his name being called

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again.
So he went back down to the

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house.
Nobody.

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Nobody.
Called him down there.

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So he brought one of his, his
kids up, one of his daughters to

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listen.
And when he heard it, he he

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asked, you know, did you hear
that that someone called my name

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and she's like I didn't hear
anything And so he end up

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working on this, the seller for
about two or three days, the way

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he related the story to me.
And and all this is from my

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perspective.
So I guess I should, I should

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get that out right now.
This is how this is how I seen

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it.
You know, this is the way I

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remember it.
So you know, everybody has their

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own story.
I guess this would be the way I

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seen it.
But about two or three days he

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kept hearing his, his name being
called and he's starting to

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wonder if he was, you know,
going insane.

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He was just troubling him.
So he said he he sat down and

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started trying to pinpoint where
it was coming from.

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And and he finally decided that
he felt like it was coming from

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the mountain where the spring
had broke out.

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It's called King Springs.
Is the spring the mountain The

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King Springs Mountain.
And so he decided to go up and

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pray, you know, go up and see if
he could figure the origin of

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the voice.
And so he said he he went, he

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hiked up the mountain, and he
got up there about 3/4 of the

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way up.
And the spirit told him to

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remove his shoes and remove his
coat.

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Kind of a Moses thing, right?
Holy ground.

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And so he did that and went
forward and then knelt down.

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And this was also an audible
voice, according to his

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testimony.
And he was told to go to

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Missouri and buy a farm.
And so he went.

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Back down the mountain and this
was in the morning.

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He went back down the mountain
and Bruce and Kent were two of

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the two of the families that he
was two of the men that they had

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the United Order with they were
working with.

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They asked him what was on the
agenda for the day, 'cause they

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were working in the United
order.

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And he says, well, I I just
heard we're supposed to go to

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Missouri and buy a farm.
And so Bruce asked him, Well,

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Missouri's a big place.
You know where?

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00:13:36,480 --> 00:13:37,600
Where at?
In Missouri?

227
00:13:38,280 --> 00:13:42,280
And grandpa just said, I I guess
in independence, right?

228
00:13:42,280 --> 00:13:44,960
That's where that's where
Mormons are supposed to go.

229
00:13:45,800 --> 00:13:50,640
And Bruce says, well, you
probably better go back and, you

230
00:13:50,640 --> 00:13:52,800
know, ask him exactly where we
should go.

231
00:13:52,800 --> 00:13:56,080
It's a big state, you know.
So he went back up the mountain

232
00:13:56,080 --> 00:14:00,920
and and asked and he was told
and I don't.

233
00:14:01,240 --> 00:14:04,360
I don't remember if this was an
audible voice this part or not.

234
00:14:04,440 --> 00:14:06,280
I honestly don't.
I know the other part.

235
00:14:06,280 --> 00:14:09,640
He bore test when it was audible
and I don't know if this was the

236
00:14:09,640 --> 00:14:11,480
same.
But when he back up the

237
00:14:11,480 --> 00:14:18,560
mountain, he was told to to go
to the house and get a map and

238
00:14:18,560 --> 00:14:22,280
he would show him where to go
and he said it was about 100

239
00:14:22,280 --> 00:14:27,680
miles South of Independence.
So he went back to get a map

240
00:14:27,680 --> 00:14:32,720
and.
Ask the girls, his wives.

241
00:14:32,720 --> 00:14:34,640
He has two.
He had two wives at this point.

242
00:14:34,720 --> 00:14:37,840
Ask him, you know, if they had a
map and and both wives said they

243
00:14:37,840 --> 00:14:40,080
didn't have a map.
And he said, well, God, you

244
00:14:40,080 --> 00:14:41,840
know, told me to come look at a
map.

245
00:14:41,840 --> 00:14:44,960
So we got to have a map, you
know, otherwise this whole thing

246
00:14:44,960 --> 00:14:49,520
is.
And so finally I think one of

247
00:14:49,520 --> 00:14:52,040
his wives says, well, I have AI
have a map of the whole United

248
00:14:52,040 --> 00:14:54,080
States, right.
So it's just a little map of the

249
00:14:54,080 --> 00:14:56,000
whole United States.
So Missouri was just you know

250
00:14:56,320 --> 00:14:58,640
couple inch inches big, you
know?

251
00:15:00,000 --> 00:15:02,240
And so they nailed down around
that.

252
00:15:02,240 --> 00:15:07,360
That was the only map they could
find and they started praying.

253
00:15:08,600 --> 00:15:13,880
And he said when he opened his
eyes that Nevada, the locals out

254
00:15:13,880 --> 00:15:16,680
here call it Nevada, but if
you're from there, it's spelled

255
00:15:16,680 --> 00:15:21,920
the same as Nevada, so.
He said that Nevada stood out

256
00:15:22,080 --> 00:15:24,600
like in 3D off the map.
He just when he opened his eyes

257
00:15:24,600 --> 00:15:26,920
from their prayer, it was
standing out 3D off the map.

258
00:15:26,920 --> 00:15:28,400
And so that was kind of their
answer.

259
00:15:28,400 --> 00:15:30,800
Well we're we're going to
Nevada, MO right.

260
00:15:33,400 --> 00:15:39,440
And so they basically at this
time ruin had already been

261
00:15:39,440 --> 00:15:45,640
killed and Owen grandpa and Owen
had been button heads pretty

262
00:15:45,640 --> 00:15:47,400
good.
They've they'd had, you know,

263
00:15:47,400 --> 00:15:49,960
they didn't get along like.
He did with his older brother,

264
00:15:52,000 --> 00:15:56,400
but we were still in the AUB for
all intents and all of our group

265
00:15:56,400 --> 00:16:00,760
for all intents and purposes
that was so the next morning or

266
00:16:00,760 --> 00:16:04,400
they went in to buy tires and
then when they headed out they

267
00:16:04,520 --> 00:16:10,440
they they called grandpa, called
Owen and basically said that,

268
00:16:10,440 --> 00:16:12,760
you know, God told him to go to
Missouri and buy a farm.

269
00:16:13,720 --> 00:16:16,800
And Owen flat out told him at
that point he says well.

270
00:16:17,240 --> 00:16:19,480
You guys can go out and look
around, but we don't want any of

271
00:16:19,480 --> 00:16:21,040
our people back there, period.
Right.

272
00:16:21,760 --> 00:16:28,520
And so they said, all right, so
I think there was five or six of

273
00:16:28,520 --> 00:16:32,320
the men that came out.
It was pretty much my grandpa,

274
00:16:32,320 --> 00:16:35,840
his brother, and then their
oldest son.

275
00:16:35,840 --> 00:16:40,640
So my dad was one of the men who
came out to look at the property

276
00:16:40,840 --> 00:16:43,680
or to look for property the
first time they came out, which

277
00:16:43,720 --> 00:16:47,280
would have been.
I know it was deer season out

278
00:16:47,280 --> 00:16:51,560
here when they came out, so it
would have been just later this

279
00:16:51,560 --> 00:16:53,680
year.
Fall, late fall.

280
00:16:54,320 --> 00:16:59,200
Gotcha.
And so I hope the story ain't

281
00:16:59,200 --> 00:17:00,640
too boring.
But no, no.

282
00:17:00,640 --> 00:17:02,800
This is fantastic.
This is great.

283
00:17:02,800 --> 00:17:03,920
This is good stuff.
I.

284
00:17:05,359 --> 00:17:08,200
Guess This is why we're here
anyways.

285
00:17:09,200 --> 00:17:11,359
It's hard to know when you've
heard it 1000 times, right?

286
00:17:11,839 --> 00:17:12,599
Sure, sure.
Yeah.

287
00:17:12,880 --> 00:17:16,040
No, this is fascinating, dude.
This is the sort of stuff I

288
00:17:16,040 --> 00:17:18,240
really enjoy.
OK.

289
00:17:18,480 --> 00:17:20,119
OK.
I'll try to put some energy

290
00:17:20,119 --> 00:17:21,240
behind it.
No, you're.

291
00:17:21,400 --> 00:17:22,680
Doing great.
You're doing great.

292
00:17:22,720 --> 00:17:27,160
Don't sweat it.
Anyways, so there's I think

293
00:17:27,160 --> 00:17:29,040
there's five or five or seven of
them.

294
00:17:29,040 --> 00:17:31,400
It like I says non important but
that came out.

295
00:17:31,400 --> 00:17:36,760
It was and.
When they got here they.

296
00:17:36,960 --> 00:17:39,360
So it's interesting enough.
It's hard for me to comprehend,

297
00:17:39,360 --> 00:17:42,720
but they actually had a lot of
fear of the mobs in Missouri,

298
00:17:42,720 --> 00:17:44,400
right.
Even then like it's just kind of

299
00:17:44,400 --> 00:17:46,320
been bred in US, you know it's
just.

300
00:17:48,680 --> 00:17:53,480
But they stayed in Fort Kansas
and and the night said some

301
00:17:53,480 --> 00:17:58,720
prayers, you know, and the next
day they went out and as they

302
00:17:58,720 --> 00:18:02,120
were driving onto the freeway
they seen a realtor's office

303
00:18:02,120 --> 00:18:04,400
there when they finally made it
to Nevada, right.

304
00:18:04,760 --> 00:18:07,600
And so.
They stopped right on the on

305
00:18:07,600 --> 00:18:15,400
ramp back-to-back down Grandpa
and and I think Kent went into

306
00:18:15,400 --> 00:18:19,120
the realtor's office and and
asked him, you know, if they had

307
00:18:19,120 --> 00:18:22,840
any land for sale, which is kind
of a funny question because it's

308
00:18:22,840 --> 00:18:27,080
a realtor's office, right.
So the realtor, the realtor man

309
00:18:27,080 --> 00:18:29,520
said he's like, yeah, well what
are you looking for?

310
00:18:29,520 --> 00:18:31,560
You know you're looking for
cleared and and grandma's like

311
00:18:31,560 --> 00:18:34,440
well, maybe.
You know, they didn't know what

312
00:18:34,440 --> 00:18:36,240
they're looking for.
They're looking for where God

313
00:18:36,240 --> 00:18:38,800
was, you know, putting them,
that's what they're looking for.

314
00:18:38,800 --> 00:18:41,160
So he says, well, you're looking
for trees.

315
00:18:41,160 --> 00:18:43,600
And.
And he said, well, maybe.

316
00:18:44,960 --> 00:18:46,920
And the realtor started getting
frustrated with him, like, you

317
00:18:46,920 --> 00:18:47,920
got it.
You got to give me what you're

318
00:18:47,920 --> 00:18:49,840
looking for so I could tell you
my options.

319
00:18:49,840 --> 00:18:53,800
Well, they were taking quite a
bit of time in there and so

320
00:18:53,800 --> 00:18:59,000
Bruce came in.
And he noticed an ad for land on

321
00:18:59,000 --> 00:19:00,520
the bulletin board as he walked
in the door.

322
00:19:00,520 --> 00:19:02,640
And so he pulled that off the
board and handed it and said,

323
00:19:02,640 --> 00:19:06,600
well, what about this piece?
And the realtor is just like,

324
00:19:06,600 --> 00:19:08,960
oh, that's out of date.
I don't even know why that's

325
00:19:08,960 --> 00:19:10,960
still there.
And he he wadded up and threw it

326
00:19:10,960 --> 00:19:11,720
in the garbage.
And.

327
00:19:11,840 --> 00:19:14,160
And Grandpa said when that
happened, the Spirit told him

328
00:19:14,160 --> 00:19:16,480
that's the piece.
Oh, wow.

329
00:19:18,200 --> 00:19:20,520
And so they're like, well, that
that's it.

330
00:19:20,840 --> 00:19:24,520
And the realtor's just like I
he's like really, you know, you

331
00:19:24,520 --> 00:19:26,840
want the only piece that I I
can't give you because he's like

332
00:19:26,840 --> 00:19:29,480
the the listings old.
And I don't, I don't even have

333
00:19:29,480 --> 00:19:32,600
the guy's number anymore.
But they had somebody's number

334
00:19:32,600 --> 00:19:33,960
that they could get a hold of
the guy.

335
00:19:33,960 --> 00:19:36,280
So they he gave him a number.
They ended up tracking the guy

336
00:19:36,280 --> 00:19:40,280
down.
It was still for sale and they

337
00:19:40,280 --> 00:19:42,120
end up making a deal.
And I can't remember.

338
00:19:42,400 --> 00:19:45,920
I think they had to come up with
30,000 or maybe it's 20,000

339
00:19:45,920 --> 00:19:48,280
down.
So they gave him a down payment.

340
00:19:48,680 --> 00:19:53,680
So I mean everybody is poor than
dirt in the 80s so they didn't

341
00:19:53,680 --> 00:19:58,760
have any money at all but they
ended up putting as what they

342
00:19:58,760 --> 00:20:02,880
could down and then they they
said that they would come up

343
00:20:02,880 --> 00:20:04,880
with the rest in three months I
think and.

344
00:20:07,720 --> 00:20:12,560
So Seth, how like 30,000 that's
that's a lot of money to come up

345
00:20:12,560 --> 00:20:14,040
with.
How did your family do that?

346
00:20:14,040 --> 00:20:16,720
Did did they have the the the
funds in reserve?

347
00:20:16,800 --> 00:20:19,720
No and.
And that was actually they had

348
00:20:19,720 --> 00:20:25,360
to come up with with $30,000 in
30 days is was the the agreement

349
00:20:25,360 --> 00:20:30,040
they made that that was the
actual the agreement and so when

350
00:20:30,040 --> 00:20:36,880
they got back-to-back home to
Saint George area grandpa.

351
00:20:38,800 --> 00:20:41,200
Felt inspired that they were
that he could find the money in

352
00:20:41,200 --> 00:20:44,640
Salt Lake he could so is what
happened is they actually did a

353
00:20:44,640 --> 00:20:48,000
they did that converter run
which which brought more money

354
00:20:48,000 --> 00:20:51,120
than it at a head of abroad it
was like a $13,000 converter run

355
00:20:51,800 --> 00:20:56,200
and then for but they were still
short you know and so he was

356
00:20:56,200 --> 00:20:59,160
praying and he was told to go to
Salt Lake and he would find he'd

357
00:20:59,160 --> 00:21:03,200
find the rest of the money in
Salt Lake so and they so he went

358
00:21:03,200 --> 00:21:08,440
up to Salt Lake and checked with
all his his original sources.

359
00:21:09,560 --> 00:21:15,200
He knew some people in in the
Salt Lake area that he had

360
00:21:15,200 --> 00:21:20,880
borrowed money from before.
Anyways he he end up he end up

361
00:21:20,880 --> 00:21:24,000
having no luck there and so when
he was praying he was he was

362
00:21:24,000 --> 00:21:30,680
told to go to the Petersons and
Ken's mother and father were

363
00:21:30,680 --> 00:21:35,560
part of the Peterson group, the
branch and.

364
00:21:36,480 --> 00:21:41,040
So that they went, they went and
stayed with them and asked

365
00:21:41,040 --> 00:21:44,400
around the Peterson group and
didn't have any luck.

366
00:21:44,400 --> 00:21:47,880
And so when Grandpa was praying
and he he, the Spirit basically

367
00:21:47,880 --> 00:21:51,720
told him that there was more
than one Peterson in Salt Lake,

368
00:21:51,760 --> 00:21:56,960
in the Salt Lake area, OK.
And so then he remembered that

369
00:21:56,960 --> 00:21:58,320
he had a friend.
I can't remember what his

370
00:21:58,320 --> 00:22:01,280
friend's name was, but he had a
friend there in Salt Lake that

371
00:22:01,280 --> 00:22:05,440
knew a Peterson family, a man by
the name of Escrow Peterson.

372
00:22:05,960 --> 00:22:10,680
And so grandpa and them didn't
really know him but they had a a

373
00:22:10,680 --> 00:22:13,440
good friend that knew him so
they so they got in touch with

374
00:22:13,440 --> 00:22:16,800
him through their friend.
And this man had like I said he

375
00:22:16,800 --> 00:22:19,680
invented a a potato picker of
some kind something to do with

376
00:22:19,680 --> 00:22:23,920
potato harvesting.
So he he can't he had he just

377
00:22:23,920 --> 00:22:28,480
had come into some money.
But they didn't have any luck at

378
00:22:28,480 --> 00:22:30,160
first.
Well.

379
00:22:31,680 --> 00:22:34,920
That next morning when they were
getting ready to leave the

380
00:22:34,920 --> 00:22:37,720
escrow, Peterson actually called
him and said that the Spirit had

381
00:22:37,720 --> 00:22:44,080
told him to give them $20,000.
So between the 20 he gave them

382
00:22:44,640 --> 00:22:49,360
and the 13,013 or 14,000, when
the converter run, that was

383
00:22:49,360 --> 00:22:51,240
enough that they came out.
It was actually over enough.

384
00:22:51,240 --> 00:22:54,120
They came out and put the down
on within 30 days.

385
00:22:54,400 --> 00:22:56,000
Wow.
And you know, here's the other

386
00:22:56,000 --> 00:22:57,640
thing that strikes me about
this, right?

387
00:22:58,040 --> 00:22:59,440
Well, first let me clear this
up.

388
00:22:59,840 --> 00:23:03,640
This Eskel Peterson, was he part
of the Peterson group, or was he

389
00:23:03,640 --> 00:23:05,480
just a different Peterson
altogether?

390
00:23:06,280 --> 00:23:08,040
I I.
Do believe he's a different

391
00:23:08,040 --> 00:23:11,120
Peterson altogether.
I'm 99% sure he wasn't part of

392
00:23:11,120 --> 00:23:14,560
the Peterson group or the OR
even the the same family, right?

393
00:23:15,160 --> 00:23:17,880
They might be related, but I
don't know, Gotcha 10-4.

394
00:23:18,320 --> 00:23:21,680
But here's the other thing I was
thinking, Seth, we talk about

395
00:23:21,680 --> 00:23:25,560
$30,000 today and it's still a
good chunk of change, right?

396
00:23:25,560 --> 00:23:29,680
I mean it that's that's not a a
small amount, but we're talking

397
00:23:29,680 --> 00:23:34,120
1984, right.
So that amount must have seemed

398
00:23:34,120 --> 00:23:37,920
even more, you know, just almost
unattainable.

399
00:23:38,280 --> 00:23:44,120
So the the fact that they're
able to round up $30,000 in a

400
00:23:44,120 --> 00:23:48,160
month in 1984, that's nothing
short of miraculous.

401
00:23:50,520 --> 00:23:54,320
You know to add to that when
they were my grandma tells the

402
00:23:54,320 --> 00:23:58,680
story that when they were going
in, heading out to Missouri to

403
00:23:59,160 --> 00:24:03,000
to look at the piece or getting
ready to head head on a trip,

404
00:24:03,360 --> 00:24:08,760
she said that she needed a a
couple of Bobby pins to for her

405
00:24:08,760 --> 00:24:09,480
hair.
Right.

406
00:24:09,600 --> 00:24:12,880
And she said she just didn't
dare even ask for that.

407
00:24:12,880 --> 00:24:15,840
That's how broke they were,
right a couple of Bobby pins.

408
00:24:16,520 --> 00:24:18,200
So that's where they were
financially.

409
00:24:18,200 --> 00:24:22,000
If that gives you an idea, dude.
You know, and and this is the

410
00:24:22,000 --> 00:24:27,560
thing I love about Mormonism is
that unlike a lot of other

411
00:24:28,080 --> 00:24:31,440
groups out in Christendom,
right, who kind of think that

412
00:24:31,440 --> 00:24:36,040
you know, the days of miracles
have maybe passed us over, we

413
00:24:36,040 --> 00:24:39,320
just keep seeing this right now.
Your father didn't have to or

414
00:24:39,320 --> 00:24:42,200
your grandfather didn't have to
build a ship like Nephi did.

415
00:24:42,600 --> 00:24:47,160
But he definitely saw something
just as miraculous by having

416
00:24:47,160 --> 00:24:49,320
that amount of currency drop
into his lap.

417
00:24:49,640 --> 00:24:53,360
Considering what you just said,
that your grandma didn't even

418
00:24:53,360 --> 00:24:56,480
dare ask for money for a couple
of Bobby pins for her hair.

419
00:24:56,800 --> 00:25:00,200
I mean, that is, that's nothing
short of miraculous.

420
00:25:00,360 --> 00:25:03,240
So.
Yeah, yeah, a lot of miracles,

421
00:25:03,440 --> 00:25:07,200
you know, from the from the way
the story has been handed down

422
00:25:07,200 --> 00:25:13,000
for sure and when.
When grandpa and then got back

423
00:25:13,000 --> 00:25:15,720
from buying the piece, you know,
from from basically putting the

424
00:25:15,720 --> 00:25:18,440
first little bit down, then said
they'd come back in three months

425
00:25:18,440 --> 00:25:22,320
and and put the rest down.
He went back to Salt Lake and

426
00:25:22,360 --> 00:25:25,480
and basically they did a prayer
meeting, which I didn't know at

427
00:25:25,480 --> 00:25:27,440
the time.
And now I know because I have

428
00:25:27,440 --> 00:25:30,960
been through the temple but told
the story and I didn't

429
00:25:30,960 --> 00:25:33,800
understand at the time.
But he says, you know, he went

430
00:25:33,800 --> 00:25:35,560
to a prayer meeting.
I didn't know what that was and

431
00:25:35,560 --> 00:25:37,160
he says he?
He asked.

432
00:25:37,320 --> 00:25:39,680
He asked Owen.
You know?

433
00:25:40,120 --> 00:25:42,040
Well, we bought the land.
I know you told us.

434
00:25:42,080 --> 00:25:43,560
You know, you can go look
around, but we don't want you

435
00:25:43,560 --> 00:25:45,640
buying anything because we don't
want any people back there.

436
00:25:46,400 --> 00:25:49,000
And he said, you know, we bought
the land.

437
00:25:49,560 --> 00:25:51,000
You know?
Do you want me to kneel outside

438
00:25:51,000 --> 00:25:52,320
the circle?
You know what I'm saying?

439
00:25:52,520 --> 00:25:54,280
You good feelings, right?
Right.

440
00:25:54,440 --> 00:25:57,840
And he said Owen told him.
Well, are you a brother or

441
00:25:57,840 --> 00:25:59,040
aren't?
You and he said, well I'm a

442
00:25:59,040 --> 00:26:03,360
brother and he says, OK, you can
come stand by me and so nice.

443
00:26:03,600 --> 00:26:08,800
But, but honestly that was kind
of the the from then on.

444
00:26:09,800 --> 00:26:11,280
There was a lot of button heads,
right?

445
00:26:11,280 --> 00:26:19,480
You know, a lot of friction and
sometime I don't know when this

446
00:26:19,480 --> 00:26:22,200
happened.
It's like almost as long as I

447
00:26:22,200 --> 00:26:25,560
can remember.
I actually did a Saturday

448
00:26:25,560 --> 00:26:27,800
Sabbath as a kid and I don't
know when grandpa and then

449
00:26:27,800 --> 00:26:29,200
started doing a Saturday
Sabbath.

450
00:26:29,600 --> 00:26:33,280
But interesting, that was kind
of A to the first men who came

451
00:26:33,280 --> 00:26:35,600
out.
That was kind of what they had

452
00:26:35,600 --> 00:26:38,160
in common was.
They were doing the holy days.

453
00:26:38,160 --> 00:26:39,720
They were keeping the 7th day
Sabbath.

454
00:26:39,720 --> 00:26:44,480
They had kind of pulled.
You know, I'm saying to that and

455
00:26:44,600 --> 00:26:50,480
I don't know when that happened,
but most of my childhood

456
00:26:50,480 --> 00:26:55,280
memories of going to church
would was my mom would take her

457
00:26:55,280 --> 00:26:59,400
kids and we'd go up to Grandpa's
on Saturday and we would have

458
00:26:59,400 --> 00:27:01,880
church up there.
So, so a lot of my.

459
00:27:02,600 --> 00:27:05,520
I would say the majority of my
theology actually come from my

460
00:27:05,520 --> 00:27:08,400
grandpa as far as from those
meetings, right?

461
00:27:08,400 --> 00:27:10,440
And that's why I heard this
story over and over and over

462
00:27:10,440 --> 00:27:13,280
again as a really young kid.
Like, since It's been a long

463
00:27:13,280 --> 00:27:19,840
time now, but I heard it so many
times as a young kid and the.

464
00:27:22,120 --> 00:27:25,280
Growing up at Mataqua, there was
quite a bit of friction between

465
00:27:25,280 --> 00:27:28,400
some of the other families that
was there, basically the same

466
00:27:28,400 --> 00:27:30,720
stuff, right?
That grandpa was deceived.

467
00:27:30,720 --> 00:27:33,000
It was a deceptive spirit, you
know, because they're going

468
00:27:33,000 --> 00:27:39,800
against the priesthood.
And I I grew up, you know, as

469
00:27:40,240 --> 00:27:42,720
well keeping the Saturday
Sabbath.

470
00:27:42,880 --> 00:27:46,120
And so my dad had three wives or
has three wives.

471
00:27:46,640 --> 00:27:48,280
And you know, there's always
that.

472
00:27:48,280 --> 00:27:50,800
There was always kind of a split
in our own family.

473
00:27:51,200 --> 00:27:53,880
I find it interesting looking
back now because I I would get

474
00:27:53,880 --> 00:27:56,880
into Bates all the time as as
far back as I can remember with

475
00:27:56,880 --> 00:27:58,520
my brothers and my friends.
Right.

476
00:27:58,840 --> 00:28:01,880
You know, whether 7th Day
Sabbath's right or you know

477
00:28:01,880 --> 00:28:06,240
Sunday's right.
And, you know, and so I, I, I, I

478
00:28:06,240 --> 00:28:08,400
think it's really interesting
that I feel like God was

479
00:28:08,400 --> 00:28:12,440
definitely preparing me
personally to be able to handle

480
00:28:12,440 --> 00:28:14,160
conflict, Right.
Right.

481
00:28:14,160 --> 00:28:15,160
Yeah.
Because.

482
00:28:16,720 --> 00:28:20,640
Because I had my own brothers.
You know, on the other side of

483
00:28:20,640 --> 00:28:26,600
these issues, but Long story
short, Missouri was always

484
00:28:26,720 --> 00:28:29,240
something that, as far back as I
can remember, was something that

485
00:28:29,240 --> 00:28:31,080
we were, that's where we're
going, right?

486
00:28:31,080 --> 00:28:35,680
It was Zion.
It was, it was the, it was the

487
00:28:35,680 --> 00:28:41,160
plan.
And you know, there was a lot of

488
00:28:42,000 --> 00:28:46,200
of criticism on that grown up.
That's how I felt as a kid.

489
00:28:47,680 --> 00:28:51,280
You know a lot of, well, most of
my friends would every time

490
00:28:51,280 --> 00:28:53,800
you'd go, they would say, you
know, oh you're going to misery.

491
00:28:53,800 --> 00:28:55,920
You know they love to jab at
that it's misery.

492
00:28:56,200 --> 00:29:02,160
You know, so but after they
bought the piece and I actually

493
00:29:02,160 --> 00:29:06,320
have a journal entry, Kent is
probably the only one that that

494
00:29:06,320 --> 00:29:08,560
the Lobs don't keep journals,
OK?

495
00:29:09,600 --> 00:29:12,120
At least, well, we do.
We do have some that do.

496
00:29:12,120 --> 00:29:16,640
But but I had a welcome to 90%
of Mormonism.

497
00:29:16,640 --> 00:29:19,080
We all should, and we all fall
short on that.

498
00:29:19,080 --> 00:29:22,920
So.
But that next summer, so we

499
00:29:22,920 --> 00:29:25,360
bought, we bought the piece in
the fall and then that next

500
00:29:25,360 --> 00:29:28,520
summer all those men brought
their their whole families out

501
00:29:28,520 --> 00:29:30,400
to look at the piece that they
had bought.

502
00:29:30,400 --> 00:29:35,160
And I have some some journal
entries from Kent which I think

503
00:29:35,160 --> 00:29:36,840
are kind of cool.
They kind of, they kind of share

504
00:29:36,840 --> 00:29:39,440
what the men were, were, you
know, their hearts and and what

505
00:29:39,440 --> 00:29:46,000
they were feeling at the time.
Oh so this is June 10th, 1984.

506
00:29:46,160 --> 00:29:49,520
So they all went out.
They traveled out to Missouri

507
00:29:49,520 --> 00:29:53,200
and some school buses is kind of
like a united order thing and

508
00:29:53,320 --> 00:29:56,200
and like I was born July 20th of
84.

509
00:29:56,480 --> 00:29:59,440
So my mom actually thought she
was she was expecting me this

510
00:29:59,440 --> 00:30:04,760
time and she actually thought
that that she was possibly going

511
00:30:04,760 --> 00:30:10,880
to have me in Missouri Anyways.
So this is June 9th, 1984.

512
00:30:12,560 --> 00:30:16,280
Journal entry by Kent Andre got
a bunch of groceries this

513
00:30:16,280 --> 00:30:19,480
morning and got out to the
property in good time.

514
00:30:19,880 --> 00:30:24,160
We we thanked God for His
blessings on our trip.

515
00:30:24,240 --> 00:30:28,200
Missouri is so beautiful and
green and we camped out on the

516
00:30:28,200 --> 00:30:33,680
little east Meadow that was E
That was E to drive what?

517
00:30:33,680 --> 00:30:36,800
Oh, sorry, that was easy to
drive off the road past Pates

518
00:30:36,800 --> 00:30:38,800
Orchard.
Reading out loud is not my

519
00:30:38,800 --> 00:30:40,800
strong point.
You're good, dude.

520
00:30:40,840 --> 00:30:44,960
You're doing just fine.
Bruce and I and Dean, so Dean's,

521
00:30:44,960 --> 00:30:48,800
my dad and some of the other
children set up 7 big tents.

522
00:30:49,000 --> 00:30:51,080
Darrell went off to find a water
source.

523
00:30:51,240 --> 00:30:54,960
I can't right hear the feelings
of gratitude we have to God for

524
00:30:54,960 --> 00:30:58,360
making all this possible.
It is very beautiful.

525
00:30:59,280 --> 00:31:06,160
And then June June 9th again
Sabbath, Sabbath.

526
00:31:06,520 --> 00:31:09,960
We had a meeting in the in the
bus this morning.

527
00:31:10,400 --> 00:31:14,080
And Steven said when he went out
to pray this morning.

528
00:31:15,320 --> 00:31:16,560
Well, I'm right.
I'm right.

529
00:31:16,560 --> 00:31:18,520
I'm reading someone's
handwriting, so it's hard to

530
00:31:18,520 --> 00:31:19,800
read.
No, you're just fine.

531
00:31:20,560 --> 00:31:24,200
All right, Steven said.
When he went out to pray this

532
00:31:24,200 --> 00:31:28,400
morning, he was informed that he
was camping on the front lawn of

533
00:31:28,400 --> 00:31:31,640
the temple.
We were all very excited and

534
00:31:31,640 --> 00:31:34,160
afterwards went up here, went
up.

535
00:31:35,400 --> 00:31:40,080
Here on the hill and climbed a
big tree and saw that it was the

536
00:31:40,080 --> 00:31:45,160
highest point for some distance
in every direction.

537
00:31:48,680 --> 00:31:52,760
The view was beautiful and it
was very amazing how much.

538
00:31:53,200 --> 00:31:55,120
The flat room was on top of the
hill.

539
00:31:55,200 --> 00:31:59,360
Steven said that the hill had
water bearing rock and would be

540
00:31:59,360 --> 00:32:03,080
a good water source and we
should have a water source in

541
00:32:03,080 --> 00:32:06,600
the on the inside of the temple.
We went on a few hikes around

542
00:32:09,000 --> 00:32:11,320
now that's cool.
Let let me stop you right there.

543
00:32:11,920 --> 00:32:17,160
So one just the fact your
grandpa just listened, right?

544
00:32:17,160 --> 00:32:19,760
Just went for it.
That's cool.

545
00:32:20,080 --> 00:32:22,760
And then you have the this group
of families that move out.

546
00:32:23,120 --> 00:32:27,400
And if there's one thing about
Mormonism that that always

547
00:32:27,400 --> 00:32:29,520
intrigues me, it's the the
cycle.

548
00:32:29,880 --> 00:32:31,720
It it's it's almost sickular,
right?

549
00:32:31,960 --> 00:32:35,200
Is that there?
There is a new trek to make.

550
00:32:35,200 --> 00:32:40,200
There's a new place to settle.
And the other thing is that the

551
00:32:40,200 --> 00:32:43,200
fact your grandpa had the faith
to do that, that's straight up

552
00:32:43,200 --> 00:32:45,560
gangster, right?
Like we're going to cut ties

553
00:32:45,560 --> 00:32:48,320
with everything we know and
we're going to move out here,

554
00:32:48,320 --> 00:32:52,640
'cause God told us to do it.
It's it's just cool and and I

555
00:32:52,640 --> 00:32:56,360
also think it's cool that that
from the Lord they seem to get

556
00:32:56,360 --> 00:32:59,160
these like right away.
The first thing the Lord tells

557
00:32:59,160 --> 00:33:01,560
them is there's going to be a
temple right here.

558
00:33:01,560 --> 00:33:03,920
You're camping on the front lawn
of the temple and someday

559
00:33:03,920 --> 00:33:05,600
there's going to be a temple
right here.

560
00:33:06,280 --> 00:33:11,800
And so again it it's very
reminiscent of when Brigham gets

561
00:33:11,800 --> 00:33:14,040
to Salt Lake right.
I mean first thing he does he's

562
00:33:14,040 --> 00:33:16,880
like that's where we'll build
the temple of our God, right.

563
00:33:16,880 --> 00:33:19,800
And he points to the to the
temple lot there in downtown

564
00:33:19,800 --> 00:33:22,240
Salt Lake.
So I find all this very

565
00:33:22,240 --> 00:33:26,000
fascinating that that the Lord
is just repeating this over and

566
00:33:26,000 --> 00:33:29,480
over again every time he feels
like he needs to move a a a

567
00:33:29,480 --> 00:33:31,320
branch of people for whatever
reason.

568
00:33:31,960 --> 00:33:33,640
It's the same pattern over and
over.

569
00:33:34,920 --> 00:33:37,320
Let me ask you this real quick
before you go on there.

570
00:33:38,960 --> 00:33:41,760
What about the prophecies?
Did did your did your

571
00:33:41,760 --> 00:33:44,920
grandfather, Did any of those
early folks out there ever have

572
00:33:44,920 --> 00:33:47,480
worry about, you know, like you
were talking about the Yellow

573
00:33:47,480 --> 00:33:50,200
Dog prophecy of of it being
swept clean?

574
00:33:50,600 --> 00:33:53,720
Oh, yeah, yeah.
And so after, you know, so that

575
00:33:53,720 --> 00:33:57,840
led them into actually
researching a lot of these, to

576
00:33:57,840 --> 00:33:59,960
be honest, interesting
traditions.

577
00:33:59,960 --> 00:34:00,840
Right.
Right.

578
00:34:00,960 --> 00:34:05,520
And so Kent actually wrote a
book.

579
00:34:07,280 --> 00:34:10,440
But it's a lot of his work that
that I've used.

580
00:34:11,040 --> 00:34:14,760
They they actually flushed out a
lot of a lot of this.

581
00:34:15,239 --> 00:34:19,800
I've actually noticed a common
theme whenever so and so.

582
00:34:19,800 --> 00:34:22,239
This has been a huge battle with
my wife's family.

583
00:34:23,400 --> 00:34:27,159
Man, it's just like you just
know you're not supposed to go

584
00:34:27,159 --> 00:34:28,920
to Missouri.
Like, I don't know if it's still

585
00:34:28,920 --> 00:34:31,199
that way because I'm so far
removed now, right.

586
00:34:31,199 --> 00:34:33,159
I've been here so long and I
think feel like that the

587
00:34:33,159 --> 00:34:36,560
stigmatism maybe of this being
here songs kind of just worn it

588
00:34:36,560 --> 00:34:37,440
down.
Maybe it hasn't.

589
00:34:37,440 --> 00:34:39,960
You know, it's been a long time
since I've brought this up.

590
00:34:41,800 --> 00:34:45,480
But it is, it is just something
that everybody knows you don't

591
00:34:45,480 --> 00:34:48,639
do.
And yet when, when it, when it's

592
00:34:48,639 --> 00:34:49,600
challenged.
Right.

593
00:34:49,600 --> 00:34:51,000
Well, what?
Where's the scripture that says

594
00:34:51,000 --> 00:34:52,040
that?
Where is this coming from?

595
00:34:52,040 --> 00:34:54,239
Right.
It all falls on its face real

596
00:34:54,239 --> 00:34:56,320
fast.
And so Ken did a lot of really

597
00:34:56,320 --> 00:34:58,240
good work actually tracking down
the yellow dog.

598
00:34:58,240 --> 00:35:01,040
And it doesn't exist, right.
There's only one place you can

599
00:35:01,040 --> 00:35:04,280
find it that that somebody
attributed that Joseph or that

600
00:35:04,280 --> 00:35:05,720
Brigham Young said something
about a yellow dog.

601
00:35:05,720 --> 00:35:09,920
But the yellow dog is
interesting to even look at that

602
00:35:09,920 --> 00:35:12,760
and try to find where it came
from because it's it just pretty

603
00:35:12,760 --> 00:35:14,720
much there's nothing there, you
know?

604
00:35:16,480 --> 00:35:21,240
So they actually, because of you
know what, God told them that.

605
00:35:21,800 --> 00:35:25,040
That started on the on this
journey of actually relooking

606
00:35:25,040 --> 00:35:28,800
at, you know some of these
things with new eyes and and I

607
00:35:28,800 --> 00:35:32,000
think that all fell over form
pretty fast as far as being

608
00:35:32,000 --> 00:35:35,800
swept clean or wiped clean.
You know, I felt like they they

609
00:35:35,800 --> 00:35:39,680
they end up taking the stance
that the Civil War did that,

610
00:35:39,680 --> 00:35:43,400
right?
Well I think I think there's and

611
00:35:43,400 --> 00:35:46,920
I'll be releasing an episode
here in a week or two with a guy

612
00:35:46,920 --> 00:35:54,080
who is a mainstream LDS guy but
he's he's out in our expert and

613
00:35:54,080 --> 00:35:56,560
he wrote a book about the
prophecies of Joseph Smith that

614
00:35:56,560 --> 00:35:58,640
were fulfilled.
And one of the things he

615
00:35:58,640 --> 00:36:02,760
mentioned in there was Missouri
being swept clean because just

616
00:36:02,760 --> 00:36:06,320
that the Civil War where because
the Missouri was the kind of the

617
00:36:06,320 --> 00:36:10,840
bread basket of the Confederacy.
And so when they were you know

618
00:36:10,960 --> 00:36:14,480
in instituting Total War they
were like burn it, burn it.

619
00:36:14,480 --> 00:36:15,760
We don't want them getting
grained.

620
00:36:15,760 --> 00:36:19,160
We don't we want to cut off
their their their food supplies.

621
00:36:19,680 --> 00:36:24,040
And Joseph did make a prophecy
to the effect of Missouri would

622
00:36:24,040 --> 00:36:26,720
be wiped clean.
And you remember Donovan it was

623
00:36:26,720 --> 00:36:34,320
like his attorney or something.
And Donovan had actually said as

624
00:36:34,320 --> 00:36:37,920
he looked over the destruction
there at towards the end of the

625
00:36:37,920 --> 00:36:41,120
Civil War, he said gentlemen
today the Prophet Joseph Smith's

626
00:36:41,120 --> 00:36:44,640
words are fulfilled.
And so yeah, I think there's

627
00:36:44,640 --> 00:36:46,240
ample evidence that already
happened.

628
00:36:46,640 --> 00:36:49,200
But I still think it shows.
And and I think this is a lesson

629
00:36:49,200 --> 00:36:53,720
we can all take away as your, as
your progenitors are moving out

630
00:36:53,720 --> 00:36:56,040
there.
They don't know that that this

631
00:36:56,040 --> 00:36:58,040
prophecy has already been
fulfilled, right.

632
00:36:58,280 --> 00:37:01,280
They have no idea.
But they feel like the Lord said

633
00:37:01,320 --> 00:37:05,120
you go here And even though
everything in them was probably

634
00:37:05,120 --> 00:37:07,760
like, Are you sure?
I mean we know what's supposed

635
00:37:07,760 --> 00:37:11,240
to happen in Missouri, right?
And and they had enough faith

636
00:37:11,240 --> 00:37:15,960
just to say stand where the Lord
tells you to stand, right.

637
00:37:16,240 --> 00:37:18,800
And I think so often that's such
an important point.

638
00:37:18,800 --> 00:37:22,160
We we sometimes try to think we
have it all figured out that

639
00:37:22,160 --> 00:37:25,160
there's no way that could be.
And you just got to stand where

640
00:37:25,160 --> 00:37:27,600
the war tells you to stand.
And he'll take care of the rest.

641
00:37:28,160 --> 00:37:30,040
And so I think it's a great
example of that.

642
00:37:30,320 --> 00:37:34,200
Yeah, no, for sure.
You know, and that's one thing

643
00:37:34,200 --> 00:37:37,800
that I probably should back on
track on, 'cause it.

644
00:37:37,800 --> 00:37:41,640
It's another thing that has to
do with the temple, because

645
00:37:42,040 --> 00:37:47,040
Grandpa had another dream.
Be well, this would have been

646
00:37:47,040 --> 00:37:49,400
shortly before they bought
Mattaqua or while they're

647
00:37:49,400 --> 00:37:51,920
building Mattaqua.
But he said he's seen a big

648
00:37:51,920 --> 00:37:55,800
temple.
He's seen a temple in amongst

649
00:37:55,800 --> 00:38:01,640
big oak trees and they actually
leveled off a a place in

650
00:38:01,640 --> 00:38:04,040
Mattaqua to build a temple.
So, so, so building temple is

651
00:38:04,040 --> 00:38:06,080
always in his heart, you know
that was always something that

652
00:38:06,080 --> 00:38:09,600
they had felt called to do at
some point.

653
00:38:10,360 --> 00:38:12,760
But it never, it never worked
out right and never felt right

654
00:38:12,760 --> 00:38:15,240
till they come to Missouri.
And then he had this other

655
00:38:15,240 --> 00:38:16,280
experience, right.
Right.

656
00:38:16,280 --> 00:38:18,880
When they first showed up, It's
like, oh, here's the oak trees,

657
00:38:18,880 --> 00:38:20,560
right.
So a lot of things start falling

658
00:38:20,560 --> 00:38:24,680
into place there too, that
privacy like, like and that

659
00:38:24,680 --> 00:38:26,920
seems like that's what God's
definitely done in my life where

660
00:38:26,920 --> 00:38:28,720
he, he plants little seeds.
Right.

661
00:38:28,720 --> 00:38:31,400
And it all comes together at the
right moment to give you, you

662
00:38:31,400 --> 00:38:34,080
know, the confidence you need to
move forward.

663
00:38:34,080 --> 00:38:35,680
So there was, there was quite a
bit of that.

664
00:38:35,680 --> 00:38:39,240
I think that they had as well.
Nice, Nice.

665
00:38:39,800 --> 00:38:42,040
Anyway, yeah, continue.
Continue on with your story.

666
00:38:42,040 --> 00:38:43,760
This is fascinating.
I didn't mean to interrupt you

667
00:38:43,760 --> 00:38:46,240
there, but I had to point that
out or I'll lose my train of

668
00:38:46,240 --> 00:38:49,880
thought.
Yeah, just I can talk a lot and

669
00:38:49,880 --> 00:38:52,440
I can talk fast.
So stop me whenever you need.

670
00:38:52,440 --> 00:38:54,000
You're just fine.
You're doing great.

671
00:38:56,880 --> 00:39:02,160
Anyways, like I said, I actually
so the first the first families

672
00:39:02,160 --> 00:39:07,280
that moved out were.
I think Uncle Darrell's, that

673
00:39:07,280 --> 00:39:10,480
was Grandpa's brother, moved out
with his families.

674
00:39:10,480 --> 00:39:14,560
He had two wives.
Kent and Bruce moved out pretty,

675
00:39:14,920 --> 00:39:19,560
you know, pretty immediate.
And they started their unite

676
00:39:19,560 --> 00:39:23,480
order out here.
But I didn't actually, you know,

677
00:39:23,480 --> 00:39:27,960
my dad didn't make it out until,
oh, it was probably 96 when I

678
00:39:27,960 --> 00:39:30,640
moved out here.
Dad had a heck of a heck of a

679
00:39:30,640 --> 00:39:34,400
time getting his family out.
You know there was a lot there

680
00:39:34,400 --> 00:39:37,600
was a lot of this like I'm
saying, you know Alton delusive

681
00:39:37,600 --> 00:39:39,680
spirits you're being deceived.
You know, it's got to be clipped

682
00:39:39,680 --> 00:39:43,480
swept clean so.
So the family, my mom ended up

683
00:39:43,480 --> 00:39:47,360
just moving her kids out.
Dad kind of moved the wife that

684
00:39:47,360 --> 00:39:50,120
would move out and then he was
going back and forth for few

685
00:39:50,120 --> 00:39:53,640
years.
Two wives stayed and then they

686
00:39:53,640 --> 00:39:57,200
finally got the courage.
Just, you know, pretty much the

687
00:39:57,200 --> 00:39:59,240
one that was having the hardest
time was pretty much told that

688
00:39:59,280 --> 00:40:01,000
the Lord said I'm taking care of
you here.

689
00:40:01,320 --> 00:40:02,800
I can take care of you there,
right.

690
00:40:03,400 --> 00:40:06,160
And so that gave her enough that
she needed to to come out.

691
00:40:07,840 --> 00:40:12,960
And so like I said, but I had, I
had my heart was tied to

692
00:40:12,960 --> 00:40:14,920
Mattaqua for a for a lot of
years.

693
00:40:14,920 --> 00:40:16,320
I loved Utah.
I loved the mountains.

694
00:40:16,320 --> 00:40:19,520
It was actually really hard for
me to to adapt to Missouri as my

695
00:40:19,520 --> 00:40:21,560
home.
It it's finally tooken root.

696
00:40:21,880 --> 00:40:25,520
But it was not an easy
transition, you know.

697
00:40:26,120 --> 00:40:31,640
Mattaqua was 1100 acres and it's
surrounded by hundreds of miles

698
00:40:31,640 --> 00:40:34,160
of BLM land.
We did, you know, horse riding

699
00:40:34,160 --> 00:40:36,800
and dirt biking and whatever.
And it was just and I still miss

700
00:40:36,800 --> 00:40:42,040
that with all my heart just
being alone and and but then I

701
00:40:42,040 --> 00:40:46,640
also see that that you can make
a living here, right.

702
00:40:46,640 --> 00:40:51,520
We're 30 miles out from the
desert on a rough dirt Rd.

703
00:40:51,520 --> 00:40:53,080
It's really hard to make a
living.

704
00:40:54,240 --> 00:40:56,400
So you kind of there's always a
trade off.

705
00:40:56,400 --> 00:40:58,960
In other words, you know, you
can't have your cake and eat it

706
00:40:58,960 --> 00:41:03,640
too anyway.
So you know, I don't know

707
00:41:03,640 --> 00:41:06,800
exactly how things went before I
showed up, right?

708
00:41:07,360 --> 00:41:10,040
We, we coming to Missouri was
always a plan and we would

709
00:41:10,040 --> 00:41:12,480
usually come out about once a
year, Thanksgiving or something,

710
00:41:12,480 --> 00:41:15,680
as far back as I can remember,
you know, and we'd play with our

711
00:41:15,680 --> 00:41:21,760
cousins out here and whatever.
And I really don't know, you

712
00:41:21,760 --> 00:41:24,520
know, how they function other
than it was the United order.

713
00:41:25,240 --> 00:41:29,120
And at some point it kind of
broke apart.

714
00:41:30,720 --> 00:41:38,120
And then the other big families
that moved out here, Joseph

715
00:41:38,120 --> 00:41:41,680
Zitting, moved out here around
1990, you know, and that's

716
00:41:42,120 --> 00:41:47,840
Charles Zitting's son.
And he was kind of interesting

717
00:41:47,840 --> 00:41:49,400
enough.
That was when I said that he

718
00:41:49,400 --> 00:41:54,080
would, he got into the kind of
the holy days at the Crick.

719
00:41:54,080 --> 00:41:56,800
Right.
And.

720
00:41:57,320 --> 00:42:01,120
I'm sorry and.
This is why no one should feel

721
00:42:01,120 --> 00:42:05,720
bad about this.
Is he coming from the the, the,

722
00:42:05,880 --> 00:42:09,720
the Centennial Park or is he
coming from the FLDS?

723
00:42:09,960 --> 00:42:12,160
Where is he coming from as he
moves to Missouri?

724
00:42:12,160 --> 00:42:13,800
And what prompted him to do
that?

725
00:42:14,480 --> 00:42:17,120
Do you know or.
Yeah, you know.

726
00:42:17,120 --> 00:42:21,600
I don't know his story, so I
won't try to tell it.

727
00:42:21,600 --> 00:42:24,520
And I don't know if that's good
his history.

728
00:42:24,520 --> 00:42:29,760
I do know that that that someone
had asked him to look into the

729
00:42:29,760 --> 00:42:35,320
holy days at their group and he
looked into them and it kind of

730
00:42:35,320 --> 00:42:37,800
converted him on doing some of
the holy days.

731
00:42:37,800 --> 00:42:40,240
So that kind of started
isolating him from the group,

732
00:42:40,240 --> 00:42:42,080
you know from his.
I think that was kind of the

733
00:42:42,080 --> 00:42:46,320
start that isolated him a little
bit.

734
00:42:46,640 --> 00:42:49,880
And once again, these stories,
that's just can all be.

735
00:42:50,720 --> 00:42:53,360
That's just from what I know,
which ain't very much.

736
00:42:53,840 --> 00:42:57,800
Sure.
And anyway, another man that got

737
00:42:57,840 --> 00:43:01,120
acquainted with this and and
family still here is is the name

738
00:43:01,200 --> 00:43:03,320
a man by the name of Leland
Williams.

739
00:43:04,360 --> 00:43:09,880
And we had sent Leland the, the
order, the the United order

740
00:43:10,240 --> 00:43:13,720
picked one man to go take some
law classes that were being

741
00:43:13,720 --> 00:43:15,920
offered somewhere here in
Missouri.

742
00:43:16,760 --> 00:43:21,160
And that I know that's where Joe
Ziding met kind of got

743
00:43:21,160 --> 00:43:23,720
associated with us because he
came to take the same classes.

744
00:43:23,720 --> 00:43:25,360
Right.
And he met Leland and Leland's

745
00:43:25,360 --> 00:43:27,200
like, hey, there's you know,
there's we're over here in

746
00:43:27,200 --> 00:43:29,520
Missouri and they they hit it
off and then they found out you

747
00:43:29,520 --> 00:43:34,000
know, all that they had in
common and you know, so then he

748
00:43:34,000 --> 00:43:41,760
moved his family out and then
another big family was, was Tom

749
00:43:41,760 --> 00:43:48,800
Williams and they moved out in
909495, I think somewhere in

750
00:43:48,800 --> 00:43:51,600
there and that's a different
Williams family.

751
00:43:51,600 --> 00:43:54,360
So there's two there's two
families that are with the last

752
00:43:54,360 --> 00:43:55,800
name Williams and they're not
related.

753
00:43:56,080 --> 00:44:01,640
OK, may bet you that made for
some confusion up front.

754
00:44:02,240 --> 00:44:05,160
Yeah.
But anyway so that was and the

755
00:44:05,160 --> 00:44:12,320
Williams's and so all this is
important you know for for how

756
00:44:12,320 --> 00:44:15,600
we function together I think is
why I'm sharing sure I guess if

757
00:44:15,600 --> 00:44:19,920
anybody's wondering.
But then dad moved his family

758
00:44:19,920 --> 00:44:22,760
out and that was another that
was another big family and we

759
00:44:22,760 --> 00:44:26,360
moved out like I said I think
it's probably somewhere 9697

760
00:44:26,360 --> 00:44:29,600
somewhere right in there and
that was another big family.

761
00:44:29,600 --> 00:44:31,880
So we had we had several big
families move out around that

762
00:44:31,880 --> 00:44:34,640
time I think which kind of and
that's what I'm familiar with.

763
00:44:34,640 --> 00:44:39,680
So that's the landscape that I'm
familiar with and we had a

764
00:44:39,680 --> 00:44:43,080
little church building that we
were all pretty united in,

765
00:44:43,080 --> 00:44:44,960
right.
We all just met together.

766
00:44:44,960 --> 00:44:48,960
All those families, the the the
order had kind of broke up like

767
00:44:48,960 --> 00:44:54,040
all united orders do you know.
But they were still meeting

768
00:44:54,040 --> 00:44:58,120
together in a church.
Church had a little church

769
00:44:58,120 --> 00:44:59,360
building built the time I got
here.

770
00:44:59,360 --> 00:45:02,160
So when we would visit they
would just meet in a house.

771
00:45:02,800 --> 00:45:04,920
The big the biggest house we
had, that's where we did church.

772
00:45:04,920 --> 00:45:08,840
And I remember coming to church
meetings there, by the time I

773
00:45:08,840 --> 00:45:11,280
moved here, there was an actual
little Chapel built.

774
00:45:11,640 --> 00:45:15,120
And so we'd all meet in there
and and you know, all those

775
00:45:15,120 --> 00:45:19,080
families that I talked about had
would pretty much meet together.

776
00:45:19,600 --> 00:45:21,320
And we all met.
We were doing a Saturday

777
00:45:21,320 --> 00:45:23,240
Sabbath.
So, you know, it's kind of

778
00:45:23,240 --> 00:45:28,280
interesting.
And man, I don't even know when

779
00:45:28,280 --> 00:45:31,880
my grandpa made it out, but he
was almost the last one to

780
00:45:31,880 --> 00:45:33,920
actually physically move out
here.

781
00:45:34,920 --> 00:45:39,120
And he had, he spent a lot of
time I think to try and help

782
00:45:39,120 --> 00:45:40,840
hit.
Some of his kids were stuck out

783
00:45:40,840 --> 00:45:43,360
there and also he was trying to
get money to build the temple

784
00:45:43,360 --> 00:45:46,960
because he had that dream.
So he he he prospered, he had

785
00:45:46,960 --> 00:45:50,800
some mining prospects that fell
through and his whole nothing

786
00:45:50,800 --> 00:45:55,160
seemed to really work out.
But I know he talked about

787
00:45:55,160 --> 00:45:57,560
wanting some equipment to to dig
out the hole.

788
00:45:57,560 --> 00:46:01,360
So he ended up working and
getting a track, how he moved

789
00:46:01,360 --> 00:46:04,960
out here and some stuff.
But he was actually that, like I

790
00:46:04,960 --> 00:46:07,240
said, the last one to move out
here, which I think was really

791
00:46:07,240 --> 00:46:09,880
good in a lot of ways because he
was already accused of being,

792
00:46:09,880 --> 00:46:12,480
you know, the big head honcho,
the leader of the, you know, all

793
00:46:12,480 --> 00:46:14,560
the people out here.
And he was never even here.

794
00:46:14,560 --> 00:46:16,480
So that just wasn't the case,
right.

795
00:46:18,160 --> 00:46:23,200
I don't know what's it was
probably around, oh, around

796
00:46:23,200 --> 00:46:29,200
2000, 2003 or so.
Some of the brothers out here

797
00:46:29,280 --> 00:46:32,160
started wanting to.
They started reaching out to the

798
00:46:32,320 --> 00:46:36,640
to the AUB and wanted to
basically, you know, re rekindle

799
00:46:36,640 --> 00:46:38,320
that connection.
Right.

800
00:46:38,720 --> 00:46:42,520
And I've been 2004 ish somewhere
in there.

801
00:46:44,920 --> 00:46:51,960
And so kind of A and I actually
should say that that the AUB had

802
00:46:51,960 --> 00:46:57,840
actually set Daryl apart as a
Bishop from Mattaqua and they

803
00:46:57,840 --> 00:47:05,320
had they had made Darrell and
Steve that have the apostles or

804
00:47:05,320 --> 00:47:09,400
Danum 70 apostles.
Interestingly enough they had

805
00:47:09,400 --> 00:47:13,600
received their high baptisms too
but hadn't got any second

806
00:47:13,600 --> 00:47:18,480
anointings or anything but and
grandpa and then I I know what

807
00:47:18,480 --> 00:47:21,360
it is now he's he's he shared
that that they had a high

808
00:47:21,360 --> 00:47:22,880
baptism.
I know what that is now but I

809
00:47:22,880 --> 00:47:26,200
didn't know then right.
So interesting there, but

810
00:47:26,200 --> 00:47:32,240
anyways back to the story, we
kind of they kind of established

811
00:47:32,240 --> 00:47:34,360
some ties in somewhat of a
branch I guess you could say out

812
00:47:34,360 --> 00:47:40,720
here of the AUB, right.
So started up some some

813
00:47:41,000 --> 00:47:47,680
relations with them and the the
AUB is obviously against

814
00:47:48,440 --> 00:47:52,680
Saturday Sabbath and so they
started up an actual Sunday

815
00:47:52,680 --> 00:47:55,360
Sabbath.
So then for for quite a few

816
00:47:55,360 --> 00:47:59,560
years, we had Saturday Sabbath
that, you know, kind of the

817
00:47:59,560 --> 00:48:01,680
community was doing the
original, you know, kind of the

818
00:48:01,680 --> 00:48:05,280
founder, you know, people.
And then they had, you know,

819
00:48:05,280 --> 00:48:09,080
Sunday Sabbath that the AUB
people are doing.

820
00:48:09,280 --> 00:48:12,160
So it's kind of like a little a
little schism there.

821
00:48:13,040 --> 00:48:15,640
Not really like we still did
everything together, you know,

822
00:48:15,680 --> 00:48:18,080
all our dances and everything we
do together because it's family,

823
00:48:18,080 --> 00:48:20,880
right, family and friends.
But there are those who are

824
00:48:20,880 --> 00:48:25,880
trying to honor kind of the the
the quote of the all word group

825
00:48:25,880 --> 00:48:35,160
for lack lack of a better word
and we had kind of a thing in in

826
00:48:35,160 --> 00:48:39,880
my family that was there was
kind of as an idea, I'll put it

827
00:48:39,880 --> 00:48:41,800
that way.
It was an idea that the man

828
00:48:42,440 --> 00:48:44,680
being the patriarch of the
family could could seal

829
00:48:44,680 --> 00:48:47,360
marriages, right.
Because we we had kind of been

830
00:48:47,360 --> 00:48:50,600
outside of I guess I'll just say
full and super priesthood trying

831
00:48:50,600 --> 00:48:53,960
to function outside of full and
super priesthood, right.

832
00:48:54,800 --> 00:49:01,960
And so I always figured that,
you know, when I got married, I

833
00:49:01,960 --> 00:49:05,840
would just, I would just have my
wife's father seal us and you

834
00:49:05,840 --> 00:49:07,240
know, that'd be good enough,
right?

835
00:49:07,240 --> 00:49:09,400
I think it's kind of interesting
what what God did to me

836
00:49:09,400 --> 00:49:13,840
personally because my first
wife, her her dad was actually

837
00:49:13,840 --> 00:49:14,760
dead.
So.

838
00:49:14,760 --> 00:49:17,720
So that little loophole that I
thought I had didn't didn't work

839
00:49:17,720 --> 00:49:23,200
out for me, right.
So then so obviously being

840
00:49:23,200 --> 00:49:29,280
sealed is important and so I
started looking at the AUB for

841
00:49:29,280 --> 00:49:31,840
to to be sealed, right because I
wanted my marriage sealed.

842
00:49:32,440 --> 00:49:36,240
So we we got married.
We got married and just had just

843
00:49:36,240 --> 00:49:42,160
had our Bishop Mary's here for
time and but we started working

844
00:49:42,160 --> 00:49:46,360
towards trying to get a
relationship so we could go

845
00:49:46,360 --> 00:49:53,280
through and get sealed by the
Allred group and man I think I I

846
00:49:53,280 --> 00:49:58,360
got married in 2004 and oh
that's my memory so bad I don't

847
00:49:58,360 --> 00:50:00,240
know if I went through I don't
know when I went through it

848
00:50:00,240 --> 00:50:03,560
would have been probably a
couple years after that I want

849
00:50:03,560 --> 00:50:07,480
to I want to say 2008 but that
sounds too late but anyways it

850
00:50:07,480 --> 00:50:12,320
was sometimes between 2004 and
2008 but we started working with

851
00:50:12,600 --> 00:50:18,360
started to kind of open up this
this communication and you know

852
00:50:18,360 --> 00:50:20,800
around I I cannot remember when
Grandpa.

853
00:50:20,800 --> 00:50:24,680
Actually officially made it out,
but it probably would have been

854
00:50:24,680 --> 00:50:29,960
around 2000 and 8:00-ish.
And he came out and he started

855
00:50:31,360 --> 00:50:34,440
digging the hole out on the
temple right on the basement up

856
00:50:34,440 --> 00:50:36,360
there.
Because it was it's it's it's

857
00:50:36,360 --> 00:50:39,120
all rock.
And at this time, like, it's

858
00:50:39,120 --> 00:50:41,240
hard for me to think now, but at
this time, to say the word

859
00:50:41,240 --> 00:50:45,320
temple would make you feel
uncomfortable around anybody in,

860
00:50:45,320 --> 00:50:47,800
in the community, right?
You just, you know, so the

861
00:50:47,800 --> 00:50:50,920
temple is always in.
It was always in our hearts,

862
00:50:50,920 --> 00:50:53,600
especially kind of my mom's
kids, 'cause like I says we were

863
00:50:54,040 --> 00:50:58,640
we we had kind of been raised by
grandpa religiously, right?

864
00:50:58,640 --> 00:51:01,080
You know, So we kind of had his
concepts in our mind.

865
00:51:02,040 --> 00:51:07,000
I always joked that I was, I was
my grandpa's most faithful

866
00:51:07,000 --> 00:51:10,280
apostle, even though he never
noticed me because he he always,

867
00:51:10,480 --> 00:51:13,120
he always worked with my older
brothers, Flynn, Slade.

868
00:51:13,680 --> 00:51:16,440
And I was always just a young
pipsqueak that was just there.

869
00:51:16,440 --> 00:51:20,200
But, but I'd always been
interested in the gospel things.

870
00:51:20,200 --> 00:51:22,400
I always, I always like.
I don't even remember when we

871
00:51:22,400 --> 00:51:25,680
went camping, you know, when we
were in Utah, Mattawa, we went

872
00:51:25,680 --> 00:51:27,920
camping at a place called Aspens
Park.

873
00:51:28,640 --> 00:51:31,720
And you know, it was Saturday
and Grandpa kept a Saturday

874
00:51:31,720 --> 00:51:34,000
Sabbath no matter what, you
know.

875
00:51:34,000 --> 00:51:36,280
And all my friends went hiking.
But he was preaching the gospel.

876
00:51:36,280 --> 00:51:37,760
And I I just stayed and
listened, right.

877
00:51:37,920 --> 00:51:40,360
I just enjoyed it.
I enjoyed hearing the gospel.

878
00:51:40,360 --> 00:51:44,320
So I was kind of different than
some of my other friends my age.

879
00:51:44,320 --> 00:51:47,600
Sure.
But I had a lot of high, high

880
00:51:47,600 --> 00:51:51,800
respect for my grandpa and I
still do like he's always been a

881
00:51:53,280 --> 00:51:56,880
been a someone I've tried to
inspire, aspire to.

882
00:51:58,760 --> 00:52:04,320
Anyway, so we had we had myself
and some of the family would

883
00:52:04,320 --> 00:52:07,160
talk about a temple and it would
literally just be awkward.

884
00:52:07,160 --> 00:52:08,960
I don't know if you could if
that makes sense, but I don't

885
00:52:08,960 --> 00:52:10,000
know if you ever had anything
like that.

886
00:52:10,000 --> 00:52:11,840
But it's almost like you don't
you can't even talk about it.

887
00:52:11,840 --> 00:52:14,960
You know you can't say the word
temple where everyone gets

888
00:52:14,960 --> 00:52:16,000
uncomfortable.
Yeah.

889
00:52:16,000 --> 00:52:21,120
No, I and and I in in talking
with with Michael Ness about the

890
00:52:21,120 --> 00:52:24,680
muster years, I can see why that
would be right being a convert

891
00:52:24,680 --> 00:52:27,680
to being the only Mormon on
either side of my family at all.

892
00:52:28,400 --> 00:52:31,360
Some of those things that that
you relate to, it's hard for me

893
00:52:31,360 --> 00:52:35,240
to understand just because I
didn't grow up Mormon of any

894
00:52:35,240 --> 00:52:37,880
stripe, right.
But.

895
00:52:38,200 --> 00:52:42,000
After talking about Musser like
we did those two episodes, I get

896
00:52:42,000 --> 00:52:44,720
where it comes from, right,
'cause the idea was always

897
00:52:45,080 --> 00:52:48,200
'cause this came from upper
leadership in in the LDS church

898
00:52:48,200 --> 00:52:51,760
during Musser's younger years,
where it's like, look, just keep

899
00:52:51,760 --> 00:52:54,720
your family records and just
know this is gonna be over quick

900
00:52:54,720 --> 00:52:56,640
and we're gonna bring you right
back into the church.

901
00:52:56,920 --> 00:53:00,920
And so I think that's a that's a
holdover where it's like, well,

902
00:53:00,920 --> 00:53:02,520
are we supposed to build
temples?

903
00:53:02,520 --> 00:53:05,000
Are we not?
And so it I think it did create

904
00:53:05,000 --> 00:53:08,000
some uncomfortability there.
I could be wrong on that

905
00:53:08,000 --> 00:53:10,240
assertion, but that's kind of
the vibe I got.

906
00:53:10,640 --> 00:53:12,320
Yeah.
And then the other thing is, is

907
00:53:12,480 --> 00:53:15,640
is, you know, our, our
priesthood head, so to speak,

908
00:53:15,640 --> 00:53:19,000
had absolutely said no, we
weren't even supposed to be

909
00:53:19,000 --> 00:53:20,480
here, right?
Much less be building the

910
00:53:20,480 --> 00:53:23,080
temple.
And we didn't have the authority

911
00:53:23,080 --> 00:53:26,200
and and we really didn't, right.
We had a 70.

912
00:53:26,200 --> 00:53:28,640
That's what we had.
Which is why I had to kind of

913
00:53:28,640 --> 00:53:32,560
look to be sealed somewhere, you
know, when push came to shove.

914
00:53:33,360 --> 00:53:36,720
But anyways.
So Grant when Grandpa came out

915
00:53:36,720 --> 00:53:40,800
he he he's getting old at this
point and he started just he

916
00:53:40,800 --> 00:53:48,120
started digging the the
foundation out and he end up he

917
00:53:48,120 --> 00:53:54,400
actually had a stroke just
either right after he started

918
00:53:54,400 --> 00:53:56,640
digging the basement out or
during.

919
00:53:56,640 --> 00:54:00,880
Right.
Because I remember we were

920
00:54:00,880 --> 00:54:04,840
trying to build relationships
with with the Alward group again

921
00:54:05,320 --> 00:54:07,960
we and and a lot of people were
kind of upset with he was up

922
00:54:07,960 --> 00:54:08,720
there digging.
Right.

923
00:54:08,720 --> 00:54:10,440
That's not helping.
I I could hear the.

924
00:54:10,720 --> 00:54:13,960
I could hear the the the hydro
hammer going because it was it

925
00:54:13,960 --> 00:54:16,480
was a hydro hammer on a track
hoe because the salt rock the

926
00:54:16,480 --> 00:54:19,720
basement was salt rock.
And so I laughed even at the

927
00:54:19,720 --> 00:54:21,200
time I laughed.
It's like we're trying to build

928
00:54:21,200 --> 00:54:24,840
relationships and grandpa's just
you know I I got to get this

929
00:54:24,840 --> 00:54:27,000
done.
I got to get this hole dug and

930
00:54:27,000 --> 00:54:28,760
he actually held off as long as
he could.

931
00:54:28,760 --> 00:54:34,480
I mean, we're talking, you know,
wanting to talking about

932
00:54:34,480 --> 00:54:37,720
building a temple in 84 to 2008,
right.

933
00:54:38,040 --> 00:54:42,240
And and he actually held off, I
think from what from what I've

934
00:54:42,240 --> 00:54:46,000
seen my own eyes is I think he
held off until he realized that

935
00:54:46,000 --> 00:54:47,840
he was going to die.
If he didn't, you know what I'm

936
00:54:47,840 --> 00:54:49,160
saying?
He he had to do what he could

937
00:54:49,160 --> 00:54:51,000
do.
His life was out, you know, it

938
00:54:51,000 --> 00:54:54,360
was, it was the end, right.
So he just, he just kind of

939
00:54:54,360 --> 00:54:56,680
threw caution to the wind and
started digging out the the

940
00:54:56,680 --> 00:54:58,640
hole.
And it was kind of a bad time

941
00:54:58,640 --> 00:55:02,400
because we were really trying to
to to reconnect with the odd

942
00:55:02,400 --> 00:55:05,720
group and get authority right.
And you know, some of us had

943
00:55:05,720 --> 00:55:09,960
realized that was important.
I remember I asked grandpa about

944
00:55:09,960 --> 00:55:15,320
authority because you know, and
he said, he said he said the

945
00:55:15,320 --> 00:55:18,200
Lord will send us what we need.
That was, you know, just like

946
00:55:18,200 --> 00:55:20,240
you said he.
That was definitely his attitude

947
00:55:20,240 --> 00:55:22,000
about everything.
He said the Lord will send us

948
00:55:22,000 --> 00:55:27,280
what we need.
That is so admirable because it

949
00:55:27,320 --> 00:55:33,240
it when you have to go about.
I I've always said the hardest

950
00:55:33,240 --> 00:55:36,280
decisions in this sort of
scenario is where you're not

951
00:55:36,280 --> 00:55:40,120
necessarily mad at anybody but
you feel like the Lord's telling

952
00:55:40,120 --> 00:55:45,120
you something different than
what your group is doing.

953
00:55:45,520 --> 00:55:49,520
And so to continue to have the
intestinal fortitude to just

954
00:55:49,520 --> 00:55:53,600
keep at it I think just speaks
volumes to your grandfather's

955
00:55:53,600 --> 00:55:55,880
personality as well as his his
faith.

956
00:55:56,280 --> 00:55:59,560
I it's it's it's super cool.
It's a it's a great story.

957
00:56:00,760 --> 00:56:02,440
Yeah.
Yeah.

958
00:56:02,880 --> 00:56:05,960
It it's interesting because
shortly after he said that he he

959
00:56:05,960 --> 00:56:07,800
was, you know, he was digging on
the hole.

960
00:56:09,160 --> 00:56:12,960
Shortly after that, a man by the
name of Robert Lefever came came

961
00:56:12,960 --> 00:56:15,080
by and he was actually going up.
He was going up.

962
00:56:15,320 --> 00:56:18,120
Independence, right.
That's he he had felt called to

963
00:56:18,120 --> 00:56:19,640
Missouri.
And that's one thing I want to

964
00:56:19,640 --> 00:56:20,840
say.
All these names that I've

965
00:56:20,840 --> 00:56:22,320
shared, they have their own
story.

966
00:56:22,320 --> 00:56:23,720
They're really doing their own
testimony.

967
00:56:23,720 --> 00:56:27,200
That's why I could never share
it, and I wouldn't want to, but

968
00:56:27,200 --> 00:56:29,960
they all have their own story of
of the Lord bringing them here.

969
00:56:30,400 --> 00:56:33,640
Sure.
Anyways, if I can gather my

970
00:56:33,640 --> 00:56:36,840
thoughts back in.
So you left off with Robert

971
00:56:36,840 --> 00:56:40,080
Lefever coming out?
So yeah, Robert Lefever came out

972
00:56:40,200 --> 00:56:42,560
and he he said he this is his
story.

973
00:56:42,560 --> 00:56:46,560
He's like I was just, I was just
he knew grandpa from from back

974
00:56:46,560 --> 00:56:49,400
in their younger days and he
said I was just going to pop the

975
00:56:49,400 --> 00:56:52,040
clutch and say hi, but he visits
with grandpa and.

976
00:56:53,280 --> 00:56:55,440
And he got really interested in
the temple that grandpa was

977
00:56:55,440 --> 00:56:57,240
doing, right.
Grandpa was digging out the hole

978
00:56:57,680 --> 00:57:01,040
and he had fullness of
priesthood, right.

979
00:57:02,240 --> 00:57:08,400
And so he, he was ordained by
Ted Jessup, who was Ted Jessup,

980
00:57:08,400 --> 00:57:11,840
who was ordained by Joe
Thompson, who was ordained by

981
00:57:11,840 --> 00:57:14,280
Joseph Musser.
You know so that's kind of the

982
00:57:14,480 --> 00:57:21,600
that's the fullness line that we
have which ultimately man, it's

983
00:57:21,600 --> 00:57:24,040
hard to and it's hard to cover
all the.

984
00:57:24,640 --> 00:57:27,000
The different lines if I get
inside track, but I'll do the

985
00:57:27,000 --> 00:57:28,800
best I can.
You're doing great.

986
00:57:28,800 --> 00:57:30,680
And if.
I get if I get boring.

987
00:57:30,680 --> 00:57:32,360
Dave, please.
Just like, you know, you know,

988
00:57:32,360 --> 00:57:33,960
bring me back on track if I get
off.

989
00:57:34,000 --> 00:57:36,080
On the You're doing great.
You're doing great.

990
00:57:37,400 --> 00:57:42,320
OK, well anyways, so Robert
Lefever came out and he was

991
00:57:42,320 --> 00:57:46,600
really interested in the temple
and he started he started doing

992
00:57:46,600 --> 00:57:52,000
some temple classes and you
know, right off.

993
00:57:53,600 --> 00:57:57,360
I was not sure about.
I was not sure about Robert.

994
00:57:58,240 --> 00:57:59,800
Yeah.
Anyways, yeah.

995
00:57:59,800 --> 00:58:03,960
So Robert, the fever came out
and and so I should share this

996
00:58:03,960 --> 00:58:06,440
with my wife because this is,
this is kind of interesting.

997
00:58:07,080 --> 00:58:11,840
When I married her, I had to
make I had to promise her

998
00:58:12,840 --> 00:58:15,640
because her family was so
against my grandpa.

999
00:58:16,640 --> 00:58:18,000
They had a lot.
I don't, I don't know.

1000
00:58:18,240 --> 00:58:20,760
You know.
Anyways, he had a reputation of

1001
00:58:20,760 --> 00:58:25,600
being deceived, I guess.
So and so you know this was

1002
00:58:25,600 --> 00:58:28,800
really hard for them, for her
marrying me was really hard.

1003
00:58:29,680 --> 00:58:31,760
Interesting.
Some of her families kind of

1004
00:58:31,760 --> 00:58:35,320
disowned her for that, for you
know, shortly they they repented

1005
00:58:35,320 --> 00:58:40,320
fastly.
But anyway when I married her, I

1006
00:58:40,320 --> 00:58:44,160
I she made me promised that I
would not help on the temple.

1007
00:58:44,600 --> 00:58:47,640
So I got married in 2004.
So she made me promise that I

1008
00:58:47,640 --> 00:58:49,560
wouldn't help on the temple
unless God.

1009
00:58:51,400 --> 00:58:53,400
Unless God told me right?
And I felt like that was a

1010
00:58:53,400 --> 00:58:55,080
pretty safe promise because I
didn't want to help on the

1011
00:58:55,080 --> 00:58:56,680
temple less, God told me.
You know what I'm saying?

1012
00:58:56,800 --> 00:58:58,040
Right.
Yeah, yeah.

1013
00:58:59,400 --> 00:59:01,520
So, So I felt like it was
something I could do.

1014
00:59:01,520 --> 00:59:04,600
So I was just like, hey, yeah.
So she she wasn't going to marry

1015
00:59:04,600 --> 00:59:06,680
me unless I could promise her
that I wasn't just following

1016
00:59:06,680 --> 00:59:08,040
Steve, right, Following my
grandpa.

1017
00:59:08,040 --> 00:59:09,360
Because that's what we're being
accused of.

1018
00:59:09,360 --> 00:59:11,080
Because everybody knew, you know
what I'm saying?

1019
00:59:11,680 --> 00:59:17,960
Anyways, so when Robert came
out, this this is kind of her

1020
00:59:17,960 --> 00:59:19,480
story, but I do think it's
interesting.

1021
00:59:20,160 --> 00:59:27,680
He gave a he gave a temple prep
class and Robert is not a good

1022
00:59:27,680 --> 00:59:32,040
speaker if anybody that knows
him and a lot of times he's

1023
00:59:32,720 --> 00:59:38,760
anyways I won't go there but but
he he he gave this talk and and

1024
00:59:38,760 --> 00:59:42,920
afterwards my wife's heart was
just burning it was just burning

1025
00:59:42,920 --> 00:59:48,360
inside her and she she pretty
much got a testimony right

1026
00:59:48,360 --> 00:59:51,120
there.
That temple work was something

1027
00:59:51,120 --> 00:59:52,400
she was supposed to be involved
in.

1028
00:59:52,600 --> 00:59:54,480
Like I remember after the
meeting she went out and she was

1029
00:59:54,480 --> 00:59:56,640
just crying and she's just like,
you know, my heart, is it?

1030
00:59:56,640 --> 00:59:58,040
She said my bosom's burning,
right?

1031
00:59:58,040 --> 01:00:00,280
I guess the burning of the bosom
that was, That's pretty much

1032
01:00:00,280 --> 01:00:03,000
exactly how she described it.
Right.

1033
01:00:04,520 --> 01:00:07,520
And the time frames on these are
going to be a little scrambled

1034
01:00:07,520 --> 01:00:12,440
up.
But anyways, Robert came out and

1035
01:00:12,840 --> 01:00:13,920
I didn't.
I didn't like him.

1036
01:00:15,840 --> 01:00:17,000
I viewed him as kind of a
threat.

1037
01:00:17,000 --> 01:00:19,600
So right out of the bat he
started sitting, he started

1038
01:00:19,600 --> 01:00:23,360
sitting and you know grandpa on
him and and a few of the older

1039
01:00:23,360 --> 01:00:25,640
guys at the front of the
meetings, tradition style,

1040
01:00:25,640 --> 01:00:27,040
right.
And and you know, kind of the

1041
01:00:27,040 --> 01:00:31,320
leadership and everybody that
has had kind of come from

1042
01:00:31,320 --> 01:00:35,760
Missouri had been burnt so bad
from, you know, pre scrap so to

1043
01:00:35,760 --> 01:00:39,640
speak, that, you know, these
little things were pretty

1044
01:00:39,640 --> 01:00:44,080
touchy, right.
So Robert got a lot of pushback

1045
01:00:44,080 --> 01:00:46,640
because he was pretty much.
Just trying to structure things

1046
01:00:46,640 --> 01:00:52,440
exactly like the group, right,
the groups, groups he came from,

1047
01:00:52,440 --> 01:00:54,360
you know you got the, you got
the guys in charge and then

1048
01:00:54,840 --> 01:00:57,560
anyways you know he had the
fullness of priesthood.

1049
01:00:57,560 --> 01:01:00,360
So we kind of and I was roughly
one of the ones that gave a lot

1050
01:01:00,360 --> 01:01:05,200
of pushback on that.
But right around this time Dave

1051
01:01:05,200 --> 01:01:09,800
Watson and Harry Bonnell
actually come out to Missouri.

1052
01:01:10,800 --> 01:01:14,000
So we actually let me back up
just a little bit.

1053
01:01:14,640 --> 01:01:17,080
OK.
Grandpa, Grandpa was up there

1054
01:01:17,080 --> 01:01:20,120
working on the on the the
temple.

1055
01:01:20,240 --> 01:01:22,720
It was after he had a stroke
because I remember he said that

1056
01:01:22,920 --> 01:01:25,280
when he was loading the dump
truck, he said there were two

1057
01:01:25,280 --> 01:01:27,800
dump trucks and he had to decide
which one was the real dump

1058
01:01:27,800 --> 01:01:31,600
truck and which one was the not
the dump truck.

1059
01:01:31,920 --> 01:01:37,760
So this grandpa went from being
a strong older man to having a

1060
01:01:37,760 --> 01:01:40,640
stroke.
And he was like, just like that

1061
01:01:40,640 --> 01:01:43,120
he was.
A feeble old man it was it was

1062
01:01:43,120 --> 01:01:44,520
insane.
So that's how it hit him.

1063
01:01:44,520 --> 01:01:49,720
He had a stroke and then from
then on he was just he was

1064
01:01:49,720 --> 01:01:52,480
really feeble, but he had been
working up their funds for

1065
01:01:52,480 --> 01:01:57,640
months.
Well, finally me and my a few of

1066
01:01:57,640 --> 01:01:59,840
my brothers.
About four of my brothers had a

1067
01:01:59,840 --> 01:02:05,800
had a roofing company and we
just decided to take a week off

1068
01:02:05,800 --> 01:02:09,760
work and all of us went up and
helped him finish clearing out

1069
01:02:09,760 --> 01:02:13,280
the.
The basement, basically of the

1070
01:02:13,280 --> 01:02:17,960
rock.
And because he, he was really

1071
01:02:17,960 --> 01:02:22,440
feeble and obviously you get 5,
you know, young men up there and

1072
01:02:22,640 --> 01:02:24,840
you can make a lot of things
happen way faster.

1073
01:02:24,840 --> 01:02:26,880
But even when we got up, that's
kind of what I thought.

1074
01:02:27,240 --> 01:02:28,880
And when we got up there, I
couldn't believe.

1075
01:02:29,080 --> 01:02:34,400
So my older brother Flint took
over the track hoe and as we

1076
01:02:34,400 --> 01:02:37,120
measured the footings, because
he had a measurement that they

1077
01:02:37,120 --> 01:02:38,600
had, you know, felt like they
had got.

1078
01:02:39,480 --> 01:02:41,640
Revelation on how big the temple
is supposed to be, right?

1079
01:02:42,160 --> 01:02:44,320
Right.
So it wasn't quite big enough,

1080
01:02:44,320 --> 01:02:46,200
so we had to break out a little
more rock.

1081
01:02:46,560 --> 01:02:48,720
And so my older brother Flint
got on the track.

1082
01:02:48,720 --> 01:02:52,920
Go to break out just a couple
more feet and you know, he said

1083
01:02:52,920 --> 01:02:56,000
afterwards, like, I can't
believe Grandpa seeing double S,

1084
01:02:56,080 --> 01:02:58,440
you know, did all that by
himself.

1085
01:02:58,560 --> 01:03:00,200
It was just the rock was so
hard.

1086
01:03:01,720 --> 01:03:06,360
But we ended up clearing that
that rock out and.

1087
01:03:07,000 --> 01:03:11,760
Shortly after shortly when we we
started doing this, it was

1088
01:03:11,760 --> 01:03:16,040
announced basically, I don't
know, somebody invited Harry and

1089
01:03:16,560 --> 01:03:20,920
Dave Watson I guess to come out.
I mean, Harry's dead now, he he

1090
01:03:20,920 --> 01:03:23,720
passed on.
And Dave I guess is is in charge

1091
01:03:23,720 --> 01:03:29,280
now.
And to the AAB, you still there?

1092
01:03:29,600 --> 01:03:30,760
Yeah, I'm here.
I'm listening, man.

1093
01:03:31,600 --> 01:03:37,280
OK sorry Anyways so.
They came out and it was

1094
01:03:37,280 --> 01:03:39,840
actually, it was really, it's
really a beautiful, a beautiful

1095
01:03:39,840 --> 01:03:41,960
experience.
We had a we had a priesthood

1096
01:03:41,960 --> 01:03:47,640
meeting and Robert kind of got
up and and said some things, and

1097
01:03:47,640 --> 01:03:50,760
they kind of just shut him down.
And then he just went home, you

1098
01:03:50,760 --> 01:03:55,600
know.
And so there's kind of like, you

1099
01:03:55,600 --> 01:03:58,240
know, a little bit of a pissing
match, I guess you could say,

1100
01:03:58,240 --> 01:03:59,640
right?
Sure, yeah.

1101
01:04:01,400 --> 01:04:03,480
But.
He He was.

1102
01:04:03,760 --> 01:04:05,440
Robert was humble about it.
He just, you know.

1103
01:04:05,760 --> 01:04:10,960
Said all right, you know, and he
went home and we, Dave Watson

1104
01:04:10,960 --> 01:04:16,720
and Harry Bonnell, basically
said some blessings over the

1105
01:04:16,720 --> 01:04:17,920
ranch.
We had a meeting in the

1106
01:04:17,920 --> 01:04:24,440
afternoon out outside on a on a
pavilion and basically they

1107
01:04:24,440 --> 01:04:30,960
invited my grandpa and Daryl.
To come out and they and we

1108
01:04:30,960 --> 01:04:32,720
could do a reconciliation is
what they call it a

1109
01:04:32,760 --> 01:04:35,800
reconciliation and you know we
could reconnect to the group and

1110
01:04:35,800 --> 01:04:38,920
you know I'm saying we could you
know be back united.

1111
01:04:38,920 --> 01:04:43,280
You know you know I should back
up a little bit because this is

1112
01:04:43,280 --> 01:04:44,240
important.
I'll say I'm missing.

1113
01:04:44,440 --> 01:04:49,920
I'm missing some stuff right
around 2005 the group kind of

1114
01:04:50,240 --> 01:04:53,240
and this went everywhere but
they they, they pretty much said

1115
01:04:53,240 --> 01:04:57,360
everybody needs to come to Salt
Lake right and.

1116
01:04:58,000 --> 01:05:02,720
So, so quite a few people that
had had tied that tie, they

1117
01:05:02,720 --> 01:05:05,160
actually moved.
So about four or five families

1118
01:05:05,160 --> 01:05:08,560
moved and they're still out
there, right, moved out because

1119
01:05:08,560 --> 01:05:11,240
they were asked to.
And so that happened around

1120
01:05:11,240 --> 01:05:15,800
2006.
So we already already people had

1121
01:05:15,800 --> 01:05:18,400
moved out and that was kind of
the standing policy that they

1122
01:05:18,400 --> 01:05:21,040
you had, right.
If you want to join us just move

1123
01:05:21,040 --> 01:05:23,760
out.
But they had a they had a branch

1124
01:05:23,760 --> 01:05:26,080
here, but when everybody left,
it was really, it really was

1125
01:05:26,080 --> 01:05:30,960
kind of small.
And so when Harry and Dave came

1126
01:05:30,960 --> 01:05:37,560
out in 2009, that was kind of
exciting because they they kind

1127
01:05:37,560 --> 01:05:40,800
of came out and they kind of
were like you guys can stay,

1128
01:05:40,800 --> 01:05:42,040
right?
Like we're going to do a

1129
01:05:42,040 --> 01:05:45,520
reconciliation, you guys can
stay in Missouri, you know.

1130
01:05:46,880 --> 01:05:52,360
And so they invited my grandpa
and and Daryl to come out and do

1131
01:05:52,360 --> 01:05:54,600
a reconciliation.
So, So we all went out there.

1132
01:05:54,600 --> 01:05:57,080
A bunch of us went out for for
for the conference.

1133
01:05:57,800 --> 01:06:01,480
And you know, my dad was there,
All a bunch of families were

1134
01:06:01,480 --> 01:06:04,120
there.
We went in.

1135
01:06:04,120 --> 01:06:06,560
Lemoyne Jensen was the was the
guy at the time.

1136
01:06:06,560 --> 01:06:13,600
Right, right.
And it kind of was it kind of.

1137
01:06:13,600 --> 01:06:17,000
Well, afterwards we found out
that I guess Lemoyne Jensen had

1138
01:06:17,000 --> 01:06:20,520
an anniversary with his wife or
something that he was late for.

1139
01:06:21,240 --> 01:06:25,000
So it's kind of just like, OK,
you know, all right, if you guys

1140
01:06:25,000 --> 01:06:28,640
will stop.
Stop Saturday Sabbath.

1141
01:06:29,320 --> 01:06:34,760
Stop working on the temple and
stop doing the sacrament with

1142
01:06:35,240 --> 01:06:37,200
with anybody that ain't baptized
by us.

1143
01:06:37,280 --> 01:06:39,520
Then we'll we'll consider it a
reconciliation.

1144
01:06:39,520 --> 01:06:40,640
Right.
Right.

1145
01:06:40,640 --> 01:06:45,200
And we voted on it.
Several people didn't vote.

1146
01:06:45,200 --> 01:06:47,800
I actually, I actually voted.
Yeah, let's do it.

1147
01:06:47,800 --> 01:06:50,480
Right.
My grandpa and Daryl voted.

1148
01:06:50,480 --> 01:06:52,880
It's kind of one of those things
was just like I this is what

1149
01:06:52,880 --> 01:06:55,920
we're doing right anyways.
So they raised their hand.

1150
01:06:55,920 --> 01:07:02,680
Yeah, OK, we'll we'll do that.
So they came back and this is

1151
01:07:02,680 --> 01:07:05,520
kind of when I feel like that
that some of the people we're

1152
01:07:05,520 --> 01:07:08,240
working with this kind of pushed
them.

1153
01:07:08,240 --> 01:07:11,360
So, so now there's the Nelson
group right out here.

1154
01:07:11,760 --> 01:07:13,160
OK.
So the Nielsen Nailers who were

1155
01:07:13,160 --> 01:07:16,880
there during this time?
No, not exactly right.

1156
01:07:16,880 --> 01:07:18,720
I think this is kind of what
pushed.

1157
01:07:19,320 --> 01:07:22,840
Those who were affiliated or
kind of came out of of of that

1158
01:07:22,840 --> 01:07:28,160
branch, you know the the as we
tied tried to tie to the our

1159
01:07:28,160 --> 01:07:32,320
group, it kind of pushed them to
tie to their you know where they

1160
01:07:32,320 --> 01:07:33,960
came from.
OK all.

1161
01:07:34,000 --> 01:07:35,560
Right.
So, so they started kind of

1162
01:07:35,560 --> 01:07:39,200
looking that way and so then you
know and obviously they'd have

1163
01:07:39,200 --> 01:07:41,440
to tell their own story.
This is, this is how it kind of

1164
01:07:41,440 --> 01:07:45,600
played out.
The way I remember it is that

1165
01:07:45,600 --> 01:07:47,720
kind of was a catalyst in
pushing them so.

1166
01:07:48,760 --> 01:07:51,600
You know, to to well tie back
because in a lot of ways I kind

1167
01:07:51,600 --> 01:07:54,360
of feel like well, well, we kind
of abandoned them, right,

1168
01:07:55,000 --> 01:07:59,680
because the the actual we did
have the Saturday Sabbath and

1169
01:07:59,680 --> 01:08:03,440
then we did.
Have the kind of the AUB on

1170
01:08:03,440 --> 01:08:06,640
Sunday, well then all the
Saturday Sabbath people pretty

1171
01:08:06,640 --> 01:08:09,000
much said, OK, well we'll meet
on Sunday, right?

1172
01:08:09,400 --> 01:08:13,120
And then that left all the other
people that that come from the

1173
01:08:13,120 --> 01:08:16,240
Creek and the other families
like, OK, well now what are we

1174
01:08:16,240 --> 01:08:19,080
going to do, right?
So I think that's kind of what

1175
01:08:19,479 --> 01:08:23,760
initially started the the ball
rolling to to create an A Nelson

1176
01:08:23,760 --> 01:08:28,399
Naylor branch out here, right?
Definitely had a part to play in

1177
01:08:28,399 --> 01:08:29,359
it.
I'll put it that way.

1178
01:08:29,359 --> 01:08:31,800
I don't know how big of a part,
but it was definitely a.

1179
01:08:34,040 --> 01:08:35,120
Part.
Sure.

1180
01:08:35,520 --> 01:08:39,560
But anyway, so they said they
would do this.

1181
01:08:39,560 --> 01:08:43,840
When we got back this, actually
really, it was hard for

1182
01:08:43,840 --> 01:08:46,560
everybody, for one, because we
were.

1183
01:08:46,600 --> 01:08:48,040
We're all.
Friends and family here.

1184
01:08:48,040 --> 01:08:50,920
And then we pretty much said,
OK, we will no longer take it a

1185
01:08:50,920 --> 01:08:52,120
sacrament with each other,
right.

1186
01:08:52,120 --> 01:08:55,040
So that kind of it kind of, it
was kind of a brutal tear,

1187
01:08:55,040 --> 01:08:57,439
right?
Trying to remain true to that.

1188
01:08:57,720 --> 01:08:59,399
It just didn't feel right to be
right, honest.

1189
01:08:59,399 --> 01:09:02,640
It just, it became, it became
obvious, real clear, I think to

1190
01:09:02,640 --> 01:09:06,359
most of us on this side that
this wasn't right.

1191
01:09:06,359 --> 01:09:09,319
Like this ain't going to work,
you know what I mean?

1192
01:09:09,319 --> 01:09:10,520
Yeah.
Yeah.

1193
01:09:12,640 --> 01:09:17,720
And I remember that.
On Sunday they did sacrament,

1194
01:09:17,720 --> 01:09:21,479
and during the sacrament,
grandpa, grandpa stayed,

1195
01:09:21,479 --> 01:09:22,920
kneeling through the whole
thing.

1196
01:09:23,040 --> 01:09:27,840
And then he just pretty much
said afterwards, she says, I

1197
01:09:27,840 --> 01:09:30,040
feel like I've signed a
manifesto with the devil, is

1198
01:09:30,040 --> 01:09:34,359
what he said.
And he said I I I have to break

1199
01:09:34,359 --> 01:09:37,720
this.
I can't.

1200
01:09:37,760 --> 01:09:40,279
I can't remain true to what I
said I'd do, which was was

1201
01:09:40,279 --> 01:09:42,120
really hard on him.
You know what I'm saying?

1202
01:09:42,640 --> 01:09:44,439
Sure.
It kind of.

1203
01:09:44,960 --> 01:09:47,319
You know kind of break your word
like that basically.

1204
01:09:47,359 --> 01:09:51,960
Basically just I mean he told
him call him says I can't do it

1205
01:09:51,960 --> 01:09:53,319
guys.
I'm going to have to I'm going

1206
01:09:53,319 --> 01:09:55,800
to have to recant on that you
know or whatever you want to

1207
01:09:55,800 --> 01:09:59,760
call it.
And so that pretty much that was

1208
01:09:59,760 --> 01:10:04,760
a lot of, you know that pretty
much put a cut.

1209
01:10:06,640 --> 01:10:09,200
I guess that was the beginning
of the end with the our group

1210
01:10:09,240 --> 01:10:12,440
for me for good, right?
Because I had worked hard.

1211
01:10:12,960 --> 01:10:14,640
I'd actually went through we've
been failed.

1212
01:10:14,640 --> 01:10:18,160
I did some work with the dad and
you know I have nothing good to

1213
01:10:18,160 --> 01:10:20,920
say.
All the men I interacted with

1214
01:10:20,920 --> 01:10:25,520
there were great men and I I
have nothing good but good to

1215
01:10:25,520 --> 01:10:28,600
say about Dave Watson.
I love Terry Bonnell.

1216
01:10:28,960 --> 01:10:32,320
He actually really kind of.
I don't know we connected

1217
01:10:32,360 --> 01:10:34,640
especially with with with my
mom's family.

1218
01:10:34,720 --> 01:10:36,920
We stayed his house every time I
went out there we'd stayed his

1219
01:10:36,920 --> 01:10:38,280
house.
He was he was kind of a hard

1220
01:10:38,320 --> 01:10:40,080
hard ass for lack of better
words.

1221
01:10:40,960 --> 01:10:44,520
But but.
He was, he was still an awesome

1222
01:10:44,520 --> 01:10:45,520
guy.
He was very genuine.

1223
01:10:46,120 --> 01:10:50,080
And then Dave Watson was Dave
Watson's awesome heart, very

1224
01:10:50,080 --> 01:10:53,400
spiritual, very awesome guy.
In fact, I I've never been so

1225
01:10:53,400 --> 01:10:55,320
happy.
Then when I figured out he's,

1226
01:10:55,360 --> 01:10:58,480
he's the guy in charge.
I think that's beyond awesome

1227
01:10:58,480 --> 01:11:04,520
out there because one of the
things that kind of like started

1228
01:11:04,520 --> 01:11:10,720
pulling me away, you know, was I
got caught in the crossfire with

1229
01:11:10,720 --> 01:11:12,000
what Grandpa and then did,
right?

1230
01:11:12,280 --> 01:11:15,840
It was kind of like OK, chopped
off right.

1231
01:11:15,920 --> 01:11:21,240
So it now now it's back to
anybody that wants to be part of

1232
01:11:21,240 --> 01:11:22,800
AB.
They need to move out was pretty

1233
01:11:22,800 --> 01:11:26,160
much the mandate was back up
then you know if you want to be

1234
01:11:26,160 --> 01:11:28,840
a part of us, you need to you
need to move out.

1235
01:11:29,840 --> 01:11:33,520
And around this time, I had, I
had been doing a lot of

1236
01:11:33,520 --> 01:11:38,120
pondering on, like, why?
Why have so many fundamentalist

1237
01:11:38,120 --> 01:11:42,440
groups gone bad?
Like gone really horrible bad.

1238
01:11:42,440 --> 01:11:44,680
I'm talking like Warren Jeffs
and Ervil Lebaron.

1239
01:11:44,680 --> 01:11:51,240
Right.
And so I, I, I was reading a lot

1240
01:11:51,240 --> 01:11:52,440
about these guys.
Right.

1241
01:11:52,440 --> 01:11:55,040
Like, what was the principles
that kind of what trying to

1242
01:11:55,040 --> 01:11:59,640
identify, you know.
And one thing I I noticed with

1243
01:11:59,760 --> 01:12:04,440
Ervil is like one thing he did
was it was he took control of of

1244
01:12:04,440 --> 01:12:06,280
who could marry who.
You know what I'm saying?

1245
01:12:06,280 --> 01:12:09,920
It's like if you if you.
You know, if you wanted to marry

1246
01:12:09,920 --> 01:12:12,880
a girl, you had to, you had to,
you had to get permission from

1247
01:12:12,880 --> 01:12:13,200
him.
So.

1248
01:12:13,480 --> 01:12:16,800
So that obviously makes you like
like everybody wants to get

1249
01:12:16,800 --> 01:12:18,880
married.
That's going to make you kiss up

1250
01:12:18,880 --> 01:12:21,000
the guy who has the power to.
You know what I mean?

1251
01:12:21,000 --> 01:12:23,080
Let you get married, right?
Right.

1252
01:12:24,440 --> 01:12:28,720
And so the last, the last
conference I actually went to

1253
01:12:28,720 --> 01:12:33,400
with AUB, you know it was said
over the the pulpit, that's one

1254
01:12:33,400 --> 01:12:35,240
thing they were pushing, they
were pushing it like several

1255
01:12:35,240 --> 01:12:38,240
talks they were pushing that if
you want to court a girl.

1256
01:12:38,520 --> 01:12:40,320
You talked to the head of the
priesthood, right?

1257
01:12:40,880 --> 01:12:42,160
Like that's what you're supposed
to do.

1258
01:12:42,160 --> 01:12:46,680
And and and to me, I was just
like, I don't like, I don't like

1259
01:12:46,680 --> 01:12:48,720
this at all.
Now the the reason I throw this

1260
01:12:48,720 --> 01:12:51,760
in because today's credit, I
that was kind of the first thing

1261
01:12:51,760 --> 01:12:55,800
he did was he just like, OK, if
you want to get to know a girl

1262
01:12:55,800 --> 01:12:58,640
to go talk to the, you know, the
Bishop, the the her parents and

1263
01:12:58,640 --> 01:13:00,640
the local Bishop, right.
You know what I'm saying?

1264
01:13:00,640 --> 01:13:03,800
Which is, which is spreading the
power out, which is makes me

1265
01:13:03,800 --> 01:13:05,720
feel so much better.
You know, I don't like to seek

1266
01:13:05,720 --> 01:13:08,560
power concentrated like that.
Because it's too easy to start

1267
01:13:08,560 --> 01:13:13,360
manipulating people.
So anyway, there's a lot of

1268
01:13:13,360 --> 01:13:17,480
things that stacked up to me
that just ended up pulling me

1269
01:13:17,480 --> 01:13:22,520
away.
Well, at this time, I think

1270
01:13:22,520 --> 01:13:28,800
Robert had kind of realized
because we're so sensitive to to

1271
01:13:29,560 --> 01:13:32,080
priest craft, I don't know.
Without saying that he was a

1272
01:13:32,080 --> 01:13:34,920
priest wanted to do priest crap
but we're just like you know

1273
01:13:35,000 --> 01:13:39,160
anybody in charge or the one man
like is almost a curse word to

1274
01:13:39,160 --> 01:13:47,200
to most of us here was anyways.
And so he, I think he kind of

1275
01:13:47,200 --> 01:13:52,920
gave up and moved he moved up
north, up by up by Adam on to

1276
01:13:52,920 --> 01:13:58,120
Almond.
OK and you know started started

1277
01:13:58,120 --> 01:14:03,200
doing some stuff up there and.
At this point, I kind of, I

1278
01:14:03,760 --> 01:14:07,800
don't know.
I knew that my family was was

1279
01:14:07,800 --> 01:14:10,680
going to be going up to him to
to receive ordinance work right.

1280
01:14:11,280 --> 01:14:12,680
I just knew that my siblings
were.

1281
01:14:13,400 --> 01:14:15,200
I knew that that was their only
option.

1282
01:14:16,920 --> 01:14:23,040
And so I decided to go up and
and just investigate because I

1283
01:14:23,040 --> 01:14:25,360
had been through the endowment
and I kind of, I kind of felt

1284
01:14:25,360 --> 01:14:28,960
like like I knew and what?
Knew kind of what You know how

1285
01:14:28,960 --> 01:14:31,160
it was supposed to be, I guess,
for lack of a better word.

1286
01:14:31,560 --> 01:14:34,080
So I just.
Kind of wanted to go scout it

1287
01:14:34,080 --> 01:14:37,560
out, in all honesty.
And so I went up and visited

1288
01:14:37,560 --> 01:14:41,160
with Robert and then I did some
work from the dead and and you

1289
01:14:41,160 --> 01:14:44,440
know, the there's a, there's a
particular spirit in doing

1290
01:14:44,440 --> 01:14:46,440
temple work.
And I I was actually quite

1291
01:14:46,440 --> 01:14:48,760
shocked.
I was like, Oh my heck, that

1292
01:14:48,760 --> 01:14:49,680
spirit's here.
Right.

1293
01:14:50,040 --> 01:14:54,040
The same spirit.
And so that was kind of like I

1294
01:14:54,040 --> 01:14:58,040
guess is what I wonder is can I?
Can I encourage my family to go

1295
01:14:58,040 --> 01:14:59,680
this direction?
You know, can I be like, hey,

1296
01:14:59,680 --> 01:15:03,880
yeah, this is good.
And so I had that experience and

1297
01:15:05,240 --> 01:15:08,080
it was kind of like an answer to
my my prayer, Yeah, what's going

1298
01:15:08,080 --> 01:15:12,720
on here is good.
And so I actually continue to to

1299
01:15:12,720 --> 01:15:14,800
go up.
I try to go up once, you know,

1300
01:15:14,880 --> 01:15:17,200
once every couple of months.
It's about a three hour drive

1301
01:15:17,200 --> 01:15:22,640
from where I live here and and
had some really beautiful

1302
01:15:22,640 --> 01:15:27,880
experiences up there.
I just, I I just you know I

1303
01:15:27,880 --> 01:15:30,520
share one experience.
Well I have two things to share

1304
01:15:32,800 --> 01:15:36,280
and one one thing I found found
interesting is is is it?

1305
01:15:36,440 --> 01:15:42,160
It got so predictable that
without fail when when we would

1306
01:15:42,160 --> 01:15:47,880
go up to do temple work
something would come up and me

1307
01:15:47,880 --> 01:15:50,160
and my wife would would would
start fighting over something

1308
01:15:50,160 --> 01:15:52,960
right.
And we we literally had a place

1309
01:15:52,960 --> 01:15:56,040
about 5 minutes by a river, 5
minutes before we get the place

1310
01:15:56,040 --> 01:15:57,920
where we'd pull off and we'd
have to, because you have to

1311
01:15:57,920 --> 01:15:59,400
make right.
You can't go temple work, you

1312
01:15:59,400 --> 01:16:00,880
know, while you're all upset at
each other.

1313
01:16:01,360 --> 01:16:05,840
Sure.
And it was crazy to me how we'd

1314
01:16:05,840 --> 01:16:07,440
get in the car.
No feelings.

1315
01:16:07,440 --> 01:16:09,040
Everything was good.
We're excited.

1316
01:16:09,040 --> 01:16:11,520
And then something would come up
and we'd be, you know, fighting

1317
01:16:11,520 --> 01:16:12,920
for three hours.
You know what I'm saying?

1318
01:16:14,400 --> 01:16:15,120
Right.
I I get it.

1319
01:16:17,680 --> 01:16:19,560
And it's like we started to
recognize we we joke about it,

1320
01:16:19,560 --> 01:16:20,960
right?
Like, hey, if we're if it's

1321
01:16:20,960 --> 01:16:23,360
almost like we'd be like, let's
not even say we're going up

1322
01:16:23,360 --> 01:16:27,080
there because you know let's
just sneak up there because when

1323
01:16:27,080 --> 01:16:29,080
we say it feels like we get
sabotaged every time.

1324
01:16:29,080 --> 01:16:31,480
So I started noticing that
pattern and it was just it was

1325
01:16:31,920 --> 01:16:34,120
it was crazy predictable how it
was.

1326
01:16:36,400 --> 01:16:42,160
But one particular time after I
had done ordinance work as I was

1327
01:16:42,160 --> 01:16:45,040
driving home, I I stopped to get
gas and.

1328
01:16:46,320 --> 01:16:48,840
I just had an overwhelming
amount of love for God's

1329
01:16:48,840 --> 01:16:50,080
children, right?
Like it was.

1330
01:16:50,120 --> 01:16:53,000
My heart felt like it was going
to explode out of my chest.

1331
01:16:53,880 --> 01:16:57,680
Wow.
And I went in to get gas and

1332
01:16:57,680 --> 01:16:59,720
there was a guy, there was a
Harley rider in there and he had

1333
01:16:59,720 --> 01:17:03,040
his Harley attire on and a beard
and tattoos.

1334
01:17:03,280 --> 01:17:05,600
And I literally wanted to just
hug him and tell him, you know,

1335
01:17:05,600 --> 01:17:07,400
you are a beautiful, beautiful
person.

1336
01:17:07,720 --> 01:17:09,560
It was weird.
I, you know, I had to restrain

1337
01:17:09,560 --> 01:17:12,440
myself from just wanting to pour
that on him, right?

1338
01:17:12,600 --> 01:17:17,360
And.
You know, that has been, that

1339
01:17:17,360 --> 01:17:21,080
has been a big mark to me, to
what the spirit of God is, right

1340
01:17:21,080 --> 01:17:26,400
and how, how often I don't have
it, you know, right.

1341
01:17:26,520 --> 01:17:29,080
No, you still there?
Yep, I'm here.

1342
01:17:29,080 --> 01:17:34,440
I'm listening.
OK, anyways, and so I had quite

1343
01:17:34,680 --> 01:17:40,360
a quite a few beautiful
experiences Anyway, about like

1344
01:17:40,360 --> 01:17:43,280
says, I may be jumping forth
back and forth in time.

1345
01:17:43,280 --> 01:17:44,040
It's.
OK.

1346
01:17:44,560 --> 01:17:52,080
But it was probably around 2000
and it would have been sometime

1347
01:17:52,080 --> 01:17:58,000
it would have been from 2012 to
2014 right in there.

1348
01:17:59,000 --> 01:18:03,200
So my so Camille had had had her
experience about the temple,

1349
01:18:03,200 --> 01:18:08,720
right?
And then she also was told to be

1350
01:18:08,720 --> 01:18:13,160
a part of a great work, so.
And then she was like, dragging

1351
01:18:13,160 --> 01:18:14,760
me, right?
Like I'm just like, I don't

1352
01:18:14,760 --> 01:18:16,400
know, like trying to muster up
Faith.

1353
01:18:16,400 --> 01:18:18,040
And she's just like this, Let's
do it right.

1354
01:18:18,040 --> 01:18:20,160
So I thought, I've always found
that hilarious that, you know,

1355
01:18:20,160 --> 01:18:22,320
she made me promise that I
wouldn't help on the temple.

1356
01:18:22,320 --> 01:18:24,240
And then she had to sit there
and kick me in the butt.

1357
01:18:24,680 --> 01:18:28,280
Right, right.
Let's do it, you know, So that's

1358
01:18:28,280 --> 01:18:33,840
always been a kind of a big
testimony, but they're just man,

1359
01:18:33,840 --> 01:18:38,640
like I says, they're still like
to say Temple going back to that

1360
01:18:38,640 --> 01:18:40,520
was kind of like it would get
awkward.

1361
01:18:42,040 --> 01:18:48,240
There's just a few people that
were even interested and at this

1362
01:18:48,240 --> 01:18:53,160
time I felt like that.
So my wife, I I guess I should

1363
01:18:53,160 --> 01:18:54,960
say this.
My wife is really gifted at

1364
01:18:54,960 --> 01:18:56,720
drawing up house plants.
So.

1365
01:18:56,800 --> 01:18:59,080
So when we, we, we.
Our house burned down so she

1366
01:18:59,080 --> 01:19:02,240
built it and and I was shocked.
She just like and she loved to

1367
01:19:02,240 --> 01:19:04,120
draw plants like it's kind of
her passion right.

1368
01:19:04,680 --> 01:19:08,040
It made her happy to draw 10
house plants really.

1369
01:19:08,200 --> 01:19:12,280
And so I.
So I started feeling like that,

1370
01:19:12,600 --> 01:19:14,440
well, we need some plans for
this temple, right?

1371
01:19:14,440 --> 01:19:17,360
'cause I I started feeling like,
well, to get energy, like maybe

1372
01:19:17,360 --> 01:19:19,640
to get some excitement around
getting this, Maybe we, if we

1373
01:19:19,640 --> 01:19:21,720
could present like something
people could see, like, hey,

1374
01:19:21,720 --> 01:19:23,160
this is what we want to build,
right?

1375
01:19:23,160 --> 01:19:25,320
Like, like, if you could see it,
maybe it'd help people.

1376
01:19:25,320 --> 01:19:27,840
Like, yeah, let's do it.
Hey, let.

1377
01:19:27,960 --> 01:19:30,400
Me and so.
Seth, let me stop you right

1378
01:19:30,400 --> 01:19:33,400
there, 'cause I got a question.
So how long, how long did this

1379
01:19:33,440 --> 01:19:36,240
open hole that your grandfather
dug for the footings?

1380
01:19:36,240 --> 01:19:38,200
How long did that just stay
open?

1381
01:19:38,600 --> 01:19:41,840
Well.
We dug, we dug the hole and we

1382
01:19:41,840 --> 01:19:50,400
poured the footings in 2010, so
the end of 2009, 2010 and then

1383
01:19:50,400 --> 01:19:54,400
we didn't actually start
anything different until the the

1384
01:19:54,400 --> 01:19:58,280
winter of 2019, so however long
that is.

1385
01:19:58,920 --> 01:20:01,480
About nine years.
So it just sat vacant for for

1386
01:20:01,480 --> 01:20:05,040
nine years?
Yeah, long enough that there was

1387
01:20:05,040 --> 01:20:07,800
some pretty, pretty big trees
growing in the in there, I know

1388
01:20:07,800 --> 01:20:10,800
that.
OK, because we had to pull those

1389
01:20:10,880 --> 01:20:20,800
trees out 10, four anyways, but
I but I felt I kept waiting for

1390
01:20:20,800 --> 01:20:23,000
someone to do something right.
Right.

1391
01:20:23,000 --> 01:20:28,720
And nobody was doing anything.
And I no, I I have to, I have to

1392
01:20:28,720 --> 01:20:30,920
tell this because that's the
only when I say, I say the only

1393
01:20:30,920 --> 01:20:33,520
reason I played the drums is
because I was the only one that

1394
01:20:33,520 --> 01:20:40,040
would play the drums, you know?
Yeah, as a kid we had a little,

1395
01:20:40,040 --> 01:20:42,800
We had you know as teenagers we
kind of start up a little band.

1396
01:20:42,800 --> 01:20:47,440
Me and my three brothers and my
younger brother bought he he

1397
01:20:47,440 --> 01:20:52,280
paid like $700.00 and and bought
a drum set and I I played

1398
01:20:52,280 --> 01:20:53,560
guitar.
I wanted to play guitar.

1399
01:20:53,560 --> 01:20:56,680
I loved playing guitar.
So two of us were playing guitar

1400
01:20:56,680 --> 01:20:58,120
and he bought it.
So he's like, I'll, I'll play

1401
01:20:58,120 --> 01:21:00,360
the drums, right.
Well, he bought a drum set but

1402
01:21:00,360 --> 01:21:02,360
he just didn't have any rhythm.
So he just couldn't play the

1403
01:21:02,360 --> 01:21:08,520
drums and and I literally didn't
want to play the drums, but I I

1404
01:21:08,520 --> 01:21:10,560
was just it literally hurt me
that they were just that that

1405
01:21:10,560 --> 01:21:12,600
much money was just sitting
there not being used.

1406
01:21:12,600 --> 01:21:14,080
So I was like, all right, I'll,
I'll play them.

1407
01:21:14,080 --> 01:21:15,480
So then I was the drummer, you
know.

1408
01:21:15,520 --> 01:21:22,920
So that's what happened.
That's awesome And so that's

1409
01:21:22,960 --> 01:21:25,800
that's exactly how I felt with
this like hey.

1410
01:21:26,320 --> 01:21:29,960
And so I was like well let's
start drawing plans I I felt I

1411
01:21:29,960 --> 01:21:31,680
felt called in and I should go
back.

1412
01:21:32,360 --> 01:21:35,200
I've always felt like I mean
I've always it's weird just like

1413
01:21:35,200 --> 01:21:40,320
this nagging on me that that if
I I felt like that I was

1414
01:21:40,320 --> 01:21:43,920
supposed to get this temple on
track and and going and I felt

1415
01:21:43,920 --> 01:21:47,800
like I before it's it's weird to
explain it but you know my mom

1416
01:21:47,800 --> 01:21:50,880
was I was in my mom's belly when
they first came out and and we

1417
01:21:50,880 --> 01:21:52,000
kind of read where that temple
was.

1418
01:21:52,000 --> 01:21:55,520
You know they said I felt like I
was like I was excited about

1419
01:21:55,520 --> 01:21:58,240
that work you know what I'm
saying And that I pretty much

1420
01:21:58,240 --> 01:22:00,880
said I would make sure this gets
done That's honestly how I felt

1421
01:22:00,960 --> 01:22:03,160
you know that literally I guess
that's probably the words I I

1422
01:22:03,160 --> 01:22:05,440
pretty much felt like that in
the pre existence I was like

1423
01:22:05,440 --> 01:22:07,800
I'll make sure this this
building gets done and that's

1424
01:22:07,800 --> 01:22:12,160
kind of what I felt like my one
of my jobs And so I knew that if

1425
01:22:12,160 --> 01:22:17,280
I I every time I pitched myself
on my deathbed I I knew that

1426
01:22:17,520 --> 01:22:19,520
that that would just bother me
that I didn't do that.

1427
01:22:19,560 --> 01:22:21,240
You know what I'm saying?
Gotcha.

1428
01:22:21,360 --> 01:22:23,040
Gotcha.
So you're feeling you're feeling

1429
01:22:23,040 --> 01:22:25,520
a calling coming from the Lord
of OF.

1430
01:22:25,640 --> 01:22:29,720
Let's get this going.
Yeah, pretty pretty much.

1431
01:22:29,800 --> 01:22:31,920
You know, you're kind of waiting
for someone more qualified,

1432
01:22:31,920 --> 01:22:33,560
right?
Right.

1433
01:22:34,800 --> 01:22:38,400
But it's just so and then my
wife is really good at drawing

1434
01:22:38,400 --> 01:22:40,120
plans so.
So it's what we did is it's like

1435
01:22:40,120 --> 01:22:42,720
well you know what let's start
praying about it and and let's

1436
01:22:42,720 --> 01:22:47,920
start drawing plans and and
we'll just we'll just present it

1437
01:22:47,920 --> 01:22:50,600
to anybody that's interested and
see what they think And so so

1438
01:22:50,600 --> 01:22:54,200
she started drawing up plans and
and I remember first thing I I I

1439
01:22:54,200 --> 01:22:57,520
went to grandpa and I asked him
if he had any plans if he you

1440
01:22:57,520 --> 01:23:01,800
know what I'm saying.
And and somebody had drawn up

1441
01:23:01,800 --> 01:23:05,040
plant drawn some plans one of
his kids and at least drawn what

1442
01:23:05,040 --> 01:23:06,840
it looked like.
Right.

1443
01:23:06,840 --> 01:23:09,200
But he couldn't.
They couldn't find any, any

1444
01:23:09,200 --> 01:23:12,200
information, and he just said
God's just going to have to show

1445
01:23:12,200 --> 01:23:13,840
someone else It's pretty much
what he said.

1446
01:23:14,520 --> 01:23:17,320
Gotcha.
So right off we started drawing

1447
01:23:17,320 --> 01:23:20,920
cleansing, and right off
realized, wow for for try to fit

1448
01:23:21,200 --> 01:23:22,880
everything that we would want in
this building.

1449
01:23:22,880 --> 01:23:27,760
It's way too small.
You know, 60 by 40 turns out to

1450
01:23:27,760 --> 01:23:34,160
be pretty small as a temple.
And so the first plan we drew is

1451
01:23:34,160 --> 01:23:37,760
just like it was huge and we
just, we just went, we added

1452
01:23:37,760 --> 01:23:39,600
bigger than the actual basement,
right.

1453
01:23:40,400 --> 01:23:42,640
And then we pretty much just
said, hey, you know, anybody

1454
01:23:42,640 --> 01:23:46,080
who's interested about on the
temple, come get with us, meet

1455
01:23:46,080 --> 01:23:48,560
with us over to our house and
and we'll pray about this dog,

1456
01:23:48,560 --> 01:23:52,040
about this.
So you know about 5 or 6-7

1457
01:23:52,040 --> 01:23:56,520
people would show up, you know?
This episode of the podcast is

1458
01:23:56,520 --> 01:23:58,680
brought to you by Deseret
flag.com.

1459
01:23:59,120 --> 01:24:00,960
I've said this before, and I
really mean it.

1460
01:24:00,960 --> 01:24:03,600
Mormonism isn't just a religion,
it's a culture.

1461
01:24:03,880 --> 01:24:06,640
As such, it has its own
vernacular and practices, but

1462
01:24:06,640 --> 01:24:09,440
also its own symbols.
And those symbols become even

1463
01:24:09,440 --> 01:24:11,680
more important and prominent
when you look back into our

1464
01:24:11,680 --> 01:24:13,520
history.
Perhaps one of the most

1465
01:24:13,520 --> 01:24:16,440
recognizable symbols of
Mormonism is the Deseret flag.

1466
01:24:16,760 --> 01:24:20,040
This is the flag that I use as
cover art in this podcast.

1467
01:24:20,480 --> 01:24:23,440
This was also used for a good
chunk of time during the Pioneer

1468
01:24:23,440 --> 01:24:26,160
era in Utah.
Now today we have people who

1469
01:24:26,160 --> 01:24:29,160
want to replace the existing
Utah flag with some other

1470
01:24:29,160 --> 01:24:32,200
progressive monstrosity.
Well, I think it's damp past

1471
01:24:32,200 --> 01:24:34,880
time that we start pushing back
here a little bit in Utah.

1472
01:24:35,240 --> 01:24:37,960
Our friends at Defending Utah
are here to help you with that.

1473
01:24:38,160 --> 01:24:41,080
Now if you go to
deseretflag.com, you can now

1474
01:24:41,080 --> 01:24:43,080
purchase your own Deseret State
flag.

1475
01:24:43,480 --> 01:24:46,680
It's time here that we start
making ourselves known and join

1476
01:24:46,680 --> 01:24:49,520
the resistance against those who
seek to rewrite our state's

1477
01:24:49,520 --> 01:24:53,000
history.
Go to deseretflag.com or check

1478
01:24:53,000 --> 01:24:56,640
out the link in this episode's
page, Show notes and get yours

1479
01:24:56,640 --> 01:24:58,640
today.
Can't get enough of the Mormon

1480
01:24:58,640 --> 01:25:01,520
Renegade podcast?
Well, good news, we're on

1481
01:25:01,520 --> 01:25:03,920
Patreon and there's three
packages that you can choose

1482
01:25:03,920 --> 01:25:06,120
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The first one, the Slightly

1483
01:25:06,120 --> 01:25:09,360
Rowdy package, allows you to
hear the podcast without all

1484
01:25:09,360 --> 01:25:11,360
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1485
01:25:11,760 --> 01:25:14,440
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1486
01:25:14,440 --> 01:25:17,400
there's the Stirring It Up
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1487
01:25:17,400 --> 01:25:20,400
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1488
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Finally, for those who want to
go full Renegade, that package

1489
01:25:24,280 --> 01:25:26,920
is available too, where you can
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1490
01:25:26,920 --> 01:25:31,000
two packages, plus an extra show
where myself and Ben Winfield

1491
01:25:31,240 --> 01:25:34,120
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1492
01:25:34,120 --> 01:25:36,200
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You will also get exclusive

1493
01:25:36,200 --> 01:25:39,960
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1494
01:25:39,960 --> 01:25:42,440
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1495
01:25:42,440 --> 01:25:45,320
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Go to Patreon today and get your

1496
01:25:45,320 --> 01:25:49,720
exclusive content and.
But we really, we really ironed

1497
01:25:51,040 --> 01:25:54,280
a lot of that out just with
feedback.

1498
01:25:54,680 --> 01:25:59,920
And we got it down to where
everybody was pretty happy and

1499
01:25:59,920 --> 01:26:05,320
and through a lot of prayer and
and fasting and basically, you

1500
01:26:05,320 --> 01:26:10,040
know, just trying to just trying
to walk forward in faith until

1501
01:26:10,040 --> 01:26:11,200
God showed you, you know what
I'm saying?

1502
01:26:11,200 --> 01:26:12,960
It was kind, I guess it was a
trial and error, right.

1503
01:26:12,960 --> 01:26:18,800
So it's how it would work is a
lot of times is you know Camille

1504
01:26:18,800 --> 01:26:20,920
would Draw Something and and I
would come and I'd say that's

1505
01:26:20,920 --> 01:26:23,160
just not right, right.
I didn't know exactly what was

1506
01:26:23,160 --> 01:26:24,280
wrong.
But that's just not right.

1507
01:26:24,280 --> 01:26:26,080
And she'd be like yeah, that
doesn't feel right to me.

1508
01:26:26,240 --> 01:26:28,440
So we'd work on it and then we'd
present it and then get

1509
01:26:28,440 --> 01:26:30,640
feedback, right.
And then we'd go back and try to

1510
01:26:31,120 --> 01:26:35,080
to incorporate that in got you.
Well, we pretty much we pretty

1511
01:26:35,080 --> 01:26:37,000
much got it.
Everybody felt like you know

1512
01:26:37,000 --> 01:26:39,960
what you know grandpa on them
felt inspired of the size.

1513
01:26:39,960 --> 01:26:43,120
So we need to fit whatever we
need to fit in just the original

1514
01:26:43,120 --> 01:26:47,000
footprint, so to speak.
So we so we tried to make it all

1515
01:26:47,000 --> 01:26:56,080
work there and I have to tell
this, I have to to to tell this

1516
01:26:56,080 --> 01:27:00,760
part because it's quite funny.
Around this time Robert came

1517
01:27:00,760 --> 01:27:05,880
down and he said, I heard you
guys are back working on the

1518
01:27:05,880 --> 01:27:08,520
temple, right.
He's like this time, don't let

1519
01:27:08,520 --> 01:27:12,520
anyone stop you because before
the AED kind of shut it down,

1520
01:27:12,520 --> 01:27:14,400
right.
The reconciliation, they're like

1521
01:27:14,720 --> 01:27:16,160
so.
And it just kind of stalled out

1522
01:27:16,160 --> 01:27:17,200
for what?
What'd you say?

1523
01:27:17,200 --> 01:27:19,640
Whatever that was, you know.
About nine years, yeah.

1524
01:27:21,720 --> 01:27:23,840
But he said this time, don't let
anybody stop you.

1525
01:27:24,640 --> 01:27:30,280
And we got it.
We got it drawn out on paper.

1526
01:27:31,640 --> 01:27:35,360
But obviously me or my wife
doesn't know how to how to

1527
01:27:36,920 --> 01:27:38,760
detail or engineer anything you
know.

1528
01:27:39,200 --> 01:27:41,160
Right.
And blow bearing walls, that

1529
01:27:41,160 --> 01:27:43,360
sort of thing.
Exactly.

1530
01:27:43,360 --> 01:27:45,640
And then just get it on a
computer where it's actually

1531
01:27:45,640 --> 01:27:52,920
workable, you know, not on a on
a ^2 paper, but we had a few

1532
01:27:52,920 --> 01:27:57,760
guys that could do that.
Anyway I talked, I talked to Tom

1533
01:27:58,040 --> 01:28:03,400
Zitting and he he was pretty
adamant that Hiram Zitting was

1534
01:28:03,400 --> 01:28:12,080
the guy that.
But you know so Hiram said Long

1535
01:28:12,080 --> 01:28:15,600
story short basically yeah yeah
he he can work on that.

1536
01:28:16,120 --> 01:28:20,640
So we started meeting with Hiram
and like I says this is this was

1537
01:28:20,640 --> 01:28:22,400
a slow process.
This is what I find.

1538
01:28:22,520 --> 01:28:25,720
I think this is important to the
testimony of the of the building

1539
01:28:25,720 --> 01:28:33,840
I guess is it was just slow
going for one it's hard to work

1540
01:28:33,840 --> 01:28:35,680
on.
You want to have it.

1541
01:28:35,680 --> 01:28:38,560
You want to, you want to to put
yourself in a space.

1542
01:28:38,560 --> 01:28:40,880
If you're going to work on the
temple that you're, you feel

1543
01:28:40,880 --> 01:28:43,000
like you're worthy, right?
Or you're at least you've

1544
01:28:43,000 --> 01:28:45,760
somewhat It's not just an
everyday thing that you're just

1545
01:28:45,760 --> 01:28:47,400
like God here, you know?
You don't treat it like it's

1546
01:28:47,400 --> 01:28:49,120
just an everyday job.
It's something that you want to

1547
01:28:49,160 --> 01:28:51,680
have a good spirit about, right?
Right.

1548
01:28:52,120 --> 01:28:56,760
And that played in a lot of how
slow things went working on it

1549
01:28:56,760 --> 01:28:59,720
when you when you felt like you
were had the right spirit to

1550
01:28:59,720 --> 01:29:03,600
work on it.
And I I end up just telling

1551
01:29:03,960 --> 01:29:08,280
telling Hiram that you know
whenever he wanted to to work on

1552
01:29:08,280 --> 01:29:10,520
it just call us.
I was I, I I pretty much told me

1553
01:29:10,520 --> 01:29:12,600
and Camille pretty much made our
top priority.

1554
01:29:13,320 --> 01:29:16,160
So whenever was good for him,
we'll drop everything and we'll

1555
01:29:16,160 --> 01:29:19,120
just go and and work with you on
the computer, you know.

1556
01:29:19,880 --> 01:29:23,000
And so we started working with
Hiram for quite a few years

1557
01:29:23,040 --> 01:29:25,920
trying to meet once a month.
But sometimes it was more like

1558
01:29:25,920 --> 01:29:27,280
once every three months or
whatever.

1559
01:29:27,360 --> 01:29:29,720
It's just hard to get together.
And it was really a snail's

1560
01:29:29,720 --> 01:29:34,440
pace, right?
Man, this story, this story is

1561
01:29:34,440 --> 01:29:35,240
super long.
Dave.

1562
01:29:35,240 --> 01:29:37,880
How long do we want to go?
It's it's your call, dude.

1563
01:29:37,920 --> 01:29:42,440
I'm, I'm good.
So basically we're working on

1564
01:29:42,440 --> 01:29:44,960
the plans.
There's just not any traction.

1565
01:29:44,960 --> 01:29:47,640
We we can't get any traction,
but we're really trying right

1566
01:29:49,120 --> 01:29:55,160
and right.
I'm going to jump now to to 20,

1567
01:29:55,920 --> 01:30:01,560
well to 2019 I guess, because
this, this is a part of this

1568
01:30:01,560 --> 01:30:06,680
story.
And basically some of my sisters

1569
01:30:06,760 --> 01:30:12,040
and friends, their friends
decided to go I guess like

1570
01:30:12,040 --> 01:30:15,640
better, where they really were
looking for something, you know,

1571
01:30:15,760 --> 01:30:22,320
felt like something was missing.
So they decided to go to like a

1572
01:30:22,320 --> 01:30:26,040
Christian, what they call like a
workshop of some kind, right.

1573
01:30:26,200 --> 01:30:35,400
It's like a like a hands on like
faith workshop sign type thing,

1574
01:30:35,400 --> 01:30:39,080
right, Like like so they went,
they went to this Christian

1575
01:30:39,080 --> 01:30:41,560
workshop man.
I don't know if that's the right

1576
01:30:41,560 --> 01:30:49,240
word but and it so happens that
a few of them got baptized.

1577
01:30:50,240 --> 01:30:53,840
They were they and they were
tongues was wild at this place

1578
01:30:53,840 --> 01:30:56,720
right.
And they start speaking in

1579
01:30:56,720 --> 01:30:59,960
tongues.
And so they come back, you know,

1580
01:31:00,320 --> 01:31:03,120
super excited about, you know,
the gifts of the Spirit, I

1581
01:31:03,120 --> 01:31:06,880
guess.
And obviously there's, I don't

1582
01:31:06,880 --> 01:31:12,120
know, maybe you don't have it if
you're a Mormon, born and raised

1583
01:31:12,920 --> 01:31:15,760
where I where I was.
Like a million red flags are

1584
01:31:15,760 --> 01:31:18,160
going off, right?
No, that would that would make

1585
01:31:18,160 --> 01:31:22,240
red flags go off for me too.
Seth, I I've been a Mormon of

1586
01:31:22,240 --> 01:31:25,120
one form or another now for 28
years.

1587
01:31:25,520 --> 01:31:27,480
And yeah, at this point it's
ingrained.

1588
01:31:27,480 --> 01:31:30,000
So yeah, that would that would
send up some red flags too.

1589
01:31:30,640 --> 01:31:36,560
Anyway, so I was like, I was
actually quite frustrated and

1590
01:31:37,760 --> 01:31:44,840
you know, just real arm's length
of this thing, man.

1591
01:31:44,840 --> 01:31:46,840
I'm trying to figure out how to
shorten this and just stick to

1592
01:31:46,840 --> 01:31:50,320
the to the main root of the
story that maybe would be

1593
01:31:50,320 --> 01:31:53,400
interesting or not interesting,
basically.

1594
01:31:55,320 --> 01:32:00,000
Long story short, my brother
came and talked to me and said,

1595
01:32:00,000 --> 01:32:03,080
hey, the bottom line is we met,
you know, we met with, we met

1596
01:32:03,080 --> 01:32:05,560
with them and and the spirits
really strong and he's just

1597
01:32:05,560 --> 01:32:06,920
like, I start speaking in
tongues.

1598
01:32:06,920 --> 01:32:12,840
I was just like, I had enough
trust in him and he was like,

1599
01:32:13,240 --> 01:32:17,080
I'm kind of a guy that that will
attack something and shut it

1600
01:32:17,080 --> 01:32:18,800
down if I feel like it's
dangerous, right?

1601
01:32:19,200 --> 01:32:20,600
Right.
And he can't.

1602
01:32:20,600 --> 01:32:22,640
He came to come talk to me.
Just like, you know, I feel like

1603
01:32:22,640 --> 01:32:24,240
you need to investigate this.
Like, don't.

1604
01:32:24,240 --> 01:32:26,560
Just don't just attack it.
Because, you know, we're all

1605
01:32:26,560 --> 01:32:32,520
whatever.
And so we actually, we actually

1606
01:32:32,520 --> 01:32:36,760
had a, we were actually doing a
prayer meeting at this point.

1607
01:32:36,760 --> 01:32:39,760
A lot of people at this point
had actually got their endowment

1608
01:32:39,880 --> 01:32:44,440
from up north, from Roberts,
from Robert basically.

1609
01:32:45,280 --> 01:32:48,320
And we had a monthly prayer
meeting that we that we do, you

1610
01:32:48,320 --> 01:32:51,880
know, prayer circle.
Well, at this prayer circle, you

1611
01:32:51,880 --> 01:32:55,640
know, we started those, those
individuals there that went to

1612
01:32:55,640 --> 01:33:01,320
this Christian thing, right?
We started praying and and

1613
01:33:01,320 --> 01:33:04,320
tongues broke, Tongues broke out
in in our prayer meeting.

1614
01:33:04,320 --> 01:33:05,800
Right.
Right.

1615
01:33:06,040 --> 01:33:12,400
And I decided what the heck,
I'll I'll be right on it.

1616
01:33:13,680 --> 01:33:17,080
I was looking at one of my
brothers and I could see the joy

1617
01:33:17,080 --> 01:33:19,840
he was feeling and it was
actually irritating me that I

1618
01:33:19,840 --> 01:33:22,200
couldn't partake of it, right.
And so I'm like, what do I need

1619
01:33:22,200 --> 01:33:24,920
to do to to to to feel that joy
that I can see?

1620
01:33:24,920 --> 01:33:27,040
He's feeling right.
I could see it on his count.

1621
01:33:27,160 --> 01:33:34,160
Great joy.
And so, you know, people started

1622
01:33:35,560 --> 01:33:37,800
kind of splitting off into
different little circles and

1623
01:33:37,800 --> 01:33:39,840
just praying.
Right, Right.

1624
01:33:39,840 --> 01:33:44,800
And I had one of my good friends
that I was working with.

1625
01:33:46,040 --> 01:33:48,440
It was it was the wife to the
brother that came and talked to

1626
01:33:48,440 --> 01:33:51,640
me.
OK so so this was my brother and

1627
01:33:51,720 --> 01:33:55,960
and he he he actually started
praying with me and he and he he

1628
01:33:55,960 --> 01:33:58,600
prayed a lot of beautiful
prophetic prayers.

1629
01:33:59,040 --> 01:34:03,040
They're they're quite beautiful.
And he was holding his arms up

1630
01:34:03,040 --> 01:34:05,920
to the square and he was trying
to get me to hold them up to the

1631
01:34:05,920 --> 01:34:08,240
square and I couldn't do it.
I kept getting tired, right.

1632
01:34:08,280 --> 01:34:11,320
And literally for probably a
solid hour, you know, as he was

1633
01:34:11,320 --> 01:34:17,280
praying and and I'm just trying
to to get my mind around some

1634
01:34:17,280 --> 01:34:19,840
things but I'm really trying to
let go.

1635
01:34:19,840 --> 01:34:24,000
I feel like there was I I have
been fasting to try to get

1636
01:34:24,000 --> 01:34:26,280
myself in a humble place.
Right.

1637
01:34:26,560 --> 01:34:32,040
And I felt like, usually when I
fast, I could feel the spirit,

1638
01:34:32,040 --> 01:34:35,360
but I just feel like I just felt
strong, like physically, like

1639
01:34:35,440 --> 01:34:40,120
there was a block there.
And at some point throughout the

1640
01:34:40,120 --> 01:34:44,200
time, this brother's wife came
over and she started praying

1641
01:34:44,200 --> 01:34:47,480
with me and then she got or she
started saying I'm through

1642
01:34:47,640 --> 01:34:50,120
repetitive prayer.
Seth, you're sounding like

1643
01:34:50,120 --> 01:34:51,720
you're kind of far away from
your phone.

1644
01:34:53,120 --> 01:34:53,760
Sorry.
Is that better?

1645
01:34:54,200 --> 01:34:59,360
Yeah, that's better, Yeah.
Anyways, she started praying in

1646
01:34:59,360 --> 01:35:06,000
tongues, A repetitive message,
and it was to this is what she

1647
01:35:06,000 --> 01:35:08,400
was saying Tovia Asea Akuma or
Yaha.

1648
01:35:09,160 --> 01:35:12,480
Tovia Asea Akuma or Yaha.
And she kept saying, this is for

1649
01:35:12,480 --> 01:35:14,200
you, Seth.
This is, this is for you.

1650
01:35:15,120 --> 01:35:20,680
And I am a serious, skeptical,
skeptical person.

1651
01:35:20,680 --> 01:35:27,520
Right.
Like, and I, she kept saying you

1652
01:35:27,520 --> 01:35:29,400
say it and I couldn't.
I couldn't pronounce it right.

1653
01:35:29,520 --> 01:35:31,000
And she's just like, oh, that's
not right.

1654
01:35:31,000 --> 01:35:32,040
That's not right.
And she was.

1655
01:35:33,040 --> 01:35:34,440
And so I was like, you know
what?

1656
01:35:34,440 --> 01:35:35,440
Let's write it down.
So.

1657
01:35:35,440 --> 01:35:41,840
So I I was, you know, I asked
one of my my mother's that were

1658
01:35:41,840 --> 01:35:43,920
there if she would, she would
write it down.

1659
01:35:44,080 --> 01:35:45,640
And and this is, this is the
truth.

1660
01:35:45,640 --> 01:35:52,360
This is how it happened.
I, as she was writing down the

1661
01:35:52,360 --> 01:35:53,680
thought popped in my head.
You know what?

1662
01:35:53,680 --> 01:35:58,320
I've had words come come to me
in dreams, and if you don't know

1663
01:35:58,320 --> 01:36:00,520
how to spell them, then it
doesn't do any good, right?

1664
01:36:00,680 --> 01:36:02,680
Especially if it's a different
language, Sure.

1665
01:36:02,880 --> 01:36:13,280
So right when I'm thinking this,
this lady basically says Tovia

1666
01:36:13,280 --> 01:36:17,000
TUVIA, she spells it out.
That was the only word she

1667
01:36:17,000 --> 01:36:18,920
spelled that that was all I
cared about this time.

1668
01:36:18,920 --> 01:36:20,160
My cup was full.
Right.

1669
01:36:20,840 --> 01:36:22,080
So to speak.
Kind of.

1670
01:36:22,120 --> 01:36:24,200
I guess.
So much happened I guess that

1671
01:36:24,200 --> 01:36:27,440
night and we we'll keep going
because it is kind of

1672
01:36:27,440 --> 01:36:34,120
interesting.
But right then I took that I I I

1673
01:36:34,120 --> 01:36:35,960
ripped that I didn't care about
anything else.

1674
01:36:35,960 --> 01:36:38,120
I only needed that one word.
And I and I was just like,

1675
01:36:38,120 --> 01:36:41,600
we'll, we'll see about this.
Like, I'll prove this right.

1676
01:36:41,600 --> 01:36:42,840
Like I'll see what's going on
here.

1677
01:36:42,880 --> 01:36:45,880
Is this jumbo mumbo or is this
something important, right.

1678
01:36:46,240 --> 01:36:47,440
This is what I was thinking at
the time.

1679
01:36:47,440 --> 01:36:55,640
So I put it in my bag was a
night went on, everybody, the

1680
01:36:55,640 --> 01:37:00,800
meeting closed and I was still
feeling like I was feeling

1681
01:37:00,800 --> 01:37:09,400
blocked from the spirit, right.
And basically, and as I was

1682
01:37:09,400 --> 01:37:13,800
getting ready to leave, was
pretty much just told to stay.

1683
01:37:14,680 --> 01:37:19,560
So I stayed, My wife stayed, my
brother and his wife stayed, and

1684
01:37:19,560 --> 01:37:21,760
one of my close friends just
stayed.

1685
01:37:22,840 --> 01:37:29,840
And as we started as as I, I
just felt, I felt like I was

1686
01:37:29,840 --> 01:37:32,240
blocked, right.
So it was kind of like like they

1687
01:37:32,240 --> 01:37:34,400
were staying for me because I
just wanted to stay and pray.

1688
01:37:34,400 --> 01:37:35,920
Like, why am I feeling so
blocked?

1689
01:37:37,680 --> 01:37:43,000
Well, it turns out that I had
struggled with something in my

1690
01:37:43,000 --> 01:37:47,440
life and I never felt like I
could get over it.

1691
01:37:47,600 --> 01:37:49,320
I just felt like I I kept
tripping on it.

1692
01:37:49,320 --> 01:37:50,600
Tripping on it and tripping on
it.

1693
01:37:52,360 --> 01:37:57,040
Well, well, I felt like that I
needed to actually come clean

1694
01:37:57,040 --> 01:37:58,680
and basically say, hey, look,
you know what I'm saying?

1695
01:38:00,000 --> 01:38:01,640
I've, I've had this, I've had
this problem.

1696
01:38:01,640 --> 01:38:02,880
I just haven't been able to
overcome it.

1697
01:38:02,880 --> 01:38:04,440
It's like one of those things
where it's like, you think I'd

1698
01:38:04,440 --> 01:38:09,600
get it, You think I'd get it and
and, you know, but I didn't have

1699
01:38:09,600 --> 01:38:11,400
the courage to say it.
I just didn't.

1700
01:38:11,400 --> 01:38:16,160
I didn't, you know?
And my brother's wife, her

1701
01:38:16,160 --> 01:38:17,640
name's Jessica.
I guess I could just say her

1702
01:38:17,640 --> 01:38:19,920
name.
Jessica basically just said,

1703
01:38:19,920 --> 01:38:24,360
hey, look, yeah, she pretty
much, she pretty much called me

1704
01:38:24,360 --> 01:38:26,760
out on it.
She pretty much just said, you

1705
01:38:26,760 --> 01:38:31,720
know, she said this bars you
from the spirit, you know, And I

1706
01:38:31,720 --> 01:38:33,720
was like, wow, you know, at that
point.

1707
01:38:33,720 --> 01:38:40,840
And so I just, I just confessed
and they basically everyone

1708
01:38:40,840 --> 01:38:44,040
there just loved me.
And at that moment.

1709
01:38:44,040 --> 01:38:47,160
So this was, this was in the
middle of winter.

1710
01:38:48,360 --> 01:38:50,360
It was really cold.
That's all I do know.

1711
01:38:50,360 --> 01:38:51,920
It was really cold.
And it was about 1:00 in the

1712
01:38:51,920 --> 01:38:53,200
morning.
There was actually just a little

1713
01:38:53,200 --> 01:38:57,000
bit of snow on the ground.
But immediately when I

1714
01:38:57,000 --> 01:38:59,840
confessed, it's like I wanted to
be baptized.

1715
01:39:00,640 --> 01:39:02,840
I desired it with my whole
heart.

1716
01:39:03,320 --> 01:39:07,480
And this is what I like because
I was born, I was born in the

1717
01:39:07,480 --> 01:39:11,000
gospel, and I was baptized when
I was eight or nine, right?

1718
01:39:11,000 --> 01:39:16,280
And it's just even to this day,
that feels like my conversion,

1719
01:39:16,400 --> 01:39:17,920
right?
Sure.

1720
01:39:18,480 --> 01:39:21,040
Even though I grew up in the
gospel, it was my it was a

1721
01:39:21,040 --> 01:39:24,880
conversion for me, of a very
powerful conversion for me, I

1722
01:39:24,880 --> 01:39:27,760
guess.
But I actually for the first

1723
01:39:27,760 --> 01:39:31,280
time longed for baptism and I
and I understood why, you know

1724
01:39:31,280 --> 01:39:35,600
some of the early stories in the
in the Mormon Church, why that

1725
01:39:35,600 --> 01:39:39,720
they, you know, they chopped,
they chopped holes in the in the

1726
01:39:39,720 --> 01:39:41,680
ice, right to be baptized, you
know, all the stories.

1727
01:39:42,040 --> 01:39:42,560
Right.
Yeah.

1728
01:39:44,920 --> 01:39:48,800
And so as a kid, when I'd read
those stories, like, Good Grief,

1729
01:39:48,800 --> 01:39:50,480
Just wait for spring, right?
Or whatever.

1730
01:39:50,480 --> 01:39:52,080
Like, you guys are so silly, you
know?

1731
01:39:53,600 --> 01:39:54,800
Yeah, like.
What?

1732
01:39:54,920 --> 01:39:56,960
What?
What kind of extreme lunatics

1733
01:39:56,960 --> 01:40:00,800
Are you, right?
And so I kind of feel like like

1734
01:40:00,800 --> 01:40:04,400
that's kind of the story.
Of of my life.

1735
01:40:04,400 --> 01:40:06,640
That's kind of anyways we'll get
there.

1736
01:40:07,000 --> 01:40:11,920
So basically I want to be
baptized and and I kind of said

1737
01:40:11,920 --> 01:40:14,480
I want to be re baptized like
right now like it needs done

1738
01:40:14,480 --> 01:40:18,200
immediately.
And my brother said, well,

1739
01:40:18,200 --> 01:40:20,160
there's, you know, there's a
bathtub.

1740
01:40:20,160 --> 01:40:22,400
We could do it in that or
there's a pond close by, you

1741
01:40:22,400 --> 01:40:27,040
know, And I was just like, you
know, I can't, I can't get me

1742
01:40:27,080 --> 01:40:29,720
baptized in a bathtub.
Like that's that just don't feel

1743
01:40:29,720 --> 01:40:35,320
right.
And so we made, we made our way

1744
01:40:35,360 --> 01:40:38,760
down to the pond and it's, it's
pitch black.

1745
01:40:38,760 --> 01:40:40,080
It's in the middle.
You know, it's like one in the

1746
01:40:40,080 --> 01:40:45,720
morning And when we went in, you
know, it was so cold that that

1747
01:40:46,480 --> 01:40:49,360
that it was, it was hard to keep
your words about you.

1748
01:40:49,360 --> 01:40:51,080
We couldn't figure out how, how
he's supposed to hold your

1749
01:40:51,080 --> 01:40:52,040
hands.
You know what I'm saying?

1750
01:40:52,040 --> 01:40:55,880
And right.
And I kind of know we we finally

1751
01:40:55,880 --> 01:40:59,960
got that figured out and I kind
of know what my brother was

1752
01:40:59,960 --> 01:41:02,320
thinking.
He was he was thinking well,

1753
01:41:02,320 --> 01:41:05,200
there's no witnesses.
So I need to take him down deep

1754
01:41:05,200 --> 01:41:07,040
and I need to take him down
long, right.

1755
01:41:08,840 --> 01:41:11,080
And.
Or that's a story he's going to

1756
01:41:11,080 --> 01:41:15,800
tell just to hold you down.
Well, I kind of make the joke

1757
01:41:15,920 --> 01:41:21,680
and you know, if, if, if, if, if
you.

1758
01:41:21,680 --> 01:41:24,960
I'm starting to stutter now.
Wow, an old Sinner.

1759
01:41:25,760 --> 01:41:27,520
You know, young people.
I I put it this way.

1760
01:41:27,520 --> 01:41:30,640
At 8 years old, you should be
you should be baptized in a font

1761
01:41:30,640 --> 01:41:33,320
with warm water.
At 30 years old, you should be

1762
01:41:33,320 --> 01:41:36,440
baptized in the middle of the
night in ice cold water, you

1763
01:41:36,440 --> 01:41:41,200
know, You know, that's kind of
my testimony, I guess, but he

1764
01:41:41,200 --> 01:41:43,680
took me down.
Not to take away from your

1765
01:41:43,680 --> 01:41:47,360
story, but I once had a good
friend who told me that when he

1766
01:41:47,360 --> 01:41:52,240
was on his mission in the LDS
church, there was one guy.

1767
01:41:52,960 --> 01:41:56,440
Who when he got baptized, put
like 2 bath bombs in his pocket

1768
01:41:57,640 --> 01:42:01,520
and then it started foaming and
like everyone ran out screaming.

1769
01:42:02,280 --> 01:42:06,880
So anyway, sorry about that.
Go ahead.

1770
01:42:08,440 --> 01:42:11,040
No.
So yeah, he took, he took me

1771
01:42:11,040 --> 01:42:13,760
down and he, I felt like I went
to the depths of hell.

1772
01:42:13,760 --> 01:42:15,800
I'll be honest, how I felt it
was it was actually a powerful

1773
01:42:15,800 --> 01:42:18,320
experience.
I went down, it was so cold and

1774
01:42:18,320 --> 01:42:20,200
it was so dark.
It was dark or underwater

1775
01:42:20,200 --> 01:42:21,200
because there's a little bit of
a moon.

1776
01:42:21,200 --> 01:42:23,560
There's a sliver of a moon.
But it went so dark when I'm

1777
01:42:23,560 --> 01:42:25,440
underwater.
And I felt like he just took me

1778
01:42:25,440 --> 01:42:29,600
down, down, down.
And like says I, we're pretty

1779
01:42:29,600 --> 01:42:32,800
particular on making sure, you
know, no part sticks out of the

1780
01:42:32,800 --> 01:42:34,760
water.
And then he held me there for

1781
01:42:34,960 --> 01:42:37,720
for a second and then he brought
me back up.

1782
01:42:37,720 --> 01:42:42,480
And when I came out of that
water, I I literally felt like

1783
01:42:42,480 --> 01:42:47,840
that that that my old self had
stayed in the grave, right?

1784
01:42:48,720 --> 01:42:53,440
I came up a new man, a clean a
clean new man, you know, for the

1785
01:42:53,440 --> 01:42:55,600
first time in my life, because I
don't really remember ever

1786
01:42:55,600 --> 01:42:58,120
feeling that way.
You know, it's my first baptism.

1787
01:42:58,120 --> 01:43:00,600
I don't remember it.
And I I have been re baptized

1788
01:43:00,600 --> 01:43:07,000
before, but just never was.
It never was that powerful, you

1789
01:43:07,120 --> 01:43:09,320
know?
Well, I think you set a good

1790
01:43:09,320 --> 01:43:14,080
example there, Seth, in the
sense that that you had

1791
01:43:14,080 --> 01:43:17,400
something that that as you put
it, kept tripping you up right?

1792
01:43:17,560 --> 01:43:19,200
And and we all have those,
right?

1793
01:43:19,200 --> 01:43:22,240
Anyone who says they don't have
those, I'm like, why you still

1794
01:43:22,240 --> 01:43:25,760
here, bro, 'cause if you don't
have those, you would you would

1795
01:43:25,760 --> 01:43:27,600
have either been translated or
taken.

1796
01:43:28,320 --> 01:43:31,640
And so I I think I think you're
you're you're setting a good

1797
01:43:31,640 --> 01:43:34,040
example of how re baptism should
go.

1798
01:43:34,040 --> 01:43:37,200
You should have that feeling.
And if you don't have that

1799
01:43:37,200 --> 01:43:41,480
feeling, I'm not saying you're
doing it wrong, but maybe deep

1800
01:43:41,680 --> 01:43:44,080
dig a little deeper within
yourself, you know what I mean?

1801
01:43:45,760 --> 01:43:49,800
Yeah.
So that's that's exactly kind of

1802
01:43:51,320 --> 01:43:55,280
kind of what had came through
from this, from this Christian

1803
01:43:55,280 --> 01:44:00,440
workshop, right.
Was basically the the deep

1804
01:44:00,440 --> 01:44:04,800
confession.
The deep making things right.

1805
01:44:04,840 --> 01:44:07,200
And then baptism.
So that was kind of what was

1806
01:44:07,200 --> 01:44:10,720
going around and that was kind
of what was being, you know, and

1807
01:44:11,040 --> 01:44:13,440
even I was surprised.
So after I kind of I kind of

1808
01:44:13,440 --> 01:44:17,360
just went for it, you know.
Then I in the DNCI couldn't

1809
01:44:17,360 --> 01:44:20,880
believe everywhere it was
confess your sins and forsake

1810
01:44:20,880 --> 01:44:23,000
them and be baptized.
I I kind of thought, you know,

1811
01:44:23,000 --> 01:44:26,440
confessing was confessing was
something that you that the

1812
01:44:26,440 --> 01:44:27,840
Catholic Church did.
You know what I'm saying?

1813
01:44:28,280 --> 01:44:29,240
Right.
Right.

1814
01:44:31,080 --> 01:44:34,480
But one thing that I I always, I
always had this thing right that

1815
01:44:34,480 --> 01:44:37,760
I was just like you know,
confess your sins I and then it

1816
01:44:37,760 --> 01:44:41,080
was always, you know, to God,
you know what I'm saying?

1817
01:44:41,080 --> 01:44:43,520
I was like, oh, thank goodness
that nobody has to know, right.

1818
01:44:43,640 --> 01:44:45,680
You know nobody has to know
these things about me.

1819
01:44:47,320 --> 01:44:51,200
But I found that that that
actually the devil was using

1820
01:44:51,200 --> 01:44:57,600
that against me and basically
afterwards after I confessed and

1821
01:44:57,600 --> 01:45:01,480
was re baptized the first thing
he tried to do is he tried to he

1822
01:45:01,480 --> 01:45:04,080
he tried to bring it up and just
like you're you're guilty of

1823
01:45:04,080 --> 01:45:07,640
this and and I was just like I
know they they know I told him

1824
01:45:07,640 --> 01:45:11,160
everybody knows now right and
then it it then he was just gone

1825
01:45:11,240 --> 01:45:13,280
like.
Right, right.

1826
01:45:13,280 --> 01:45:14,640
He couldn't use that as
leverage.

1827
01:45:15,080 --> 01:45:16,720
And then it helped me just let
it go too.

1828
01:45:16,720 --> 01:45:18,680
It was weird.
It had no power of me anymore.

1829
01:45:18,680 --> 01:45:21,040
It's like I I was free from it.
It's weird.

1830
01:45:21,240 --> 01:45:24,440
So the so I, I, I have a huge
testimony in the power of

1831
01:45:24,440 --> 01:45:27,200
confession.
I do think that it's that it

1832
01:45:27,200 --> 01:45:31,360
needs to be kept in the context
of as Joseph says don't do

1833
01:45:31,360 --> 01:45:34,880
things that will, that will,
that will make you lose

1834
01:45:34,880 --> 01:45:37,200
confidence in one.
So it needs to be to a brother

1835
01:45:37,200 --> 01:45:39,560
that's trusted, right.
Because it will be used against

1836
01:45:39,560 --> 01:45:40,720
you.
The devil will use it against

1837
01:45:40,720 --> 01:45:42,760
you.
And that's why I choose not to

1838
01:45:42,760 --> 01:45:45,280
say it on here, because it's
more of an open form and and I

1839
01:45:45,280 --> 01:45:47,240
don't know who this goes to, you
know?

1840
01:45:47,720 --> 01:45:51,040
And so when you confess, it
needs to be to a brother that's

1841
01:45:51,040 --> 01:45:52,920
trusted and that's going to have
your back.

1842
01:45:52,920 --> 01:45:57,360
And then when the devil tries to
use it against you, it just

1843
01:45:57,360 --> 01:45:59,280
doesn't work, 'cause you're
like, yeah, all my, all my

1844
01:45:59,280 --> 01:46:01,600
friends know, right?
My closest brothers already

1845
01:46:01,600 --> 01:46:03,040
know.
Right.

1846
01:46:04,760 --> 01:46:07,760
So this started kind of a a deep
repentance.

1847
01:46:07,760 --> 01:46:10,600
And this may sound strange maybe
to other people, but you know,

1848
01:46:10,600 --> 01:46:12,880
when you're born and raised a
fundamentalist and this is kind

1849
01:46:12,880 --> 01:46:15,920
of so, So then we start getting
a lot of attacks, right?

1850
01:46:16,120 --> 01:46:18,840
And obviously there's red flags,
right.

1851
01:46:18,840 --> 01:46:21,600
But then there's also legitimate
attacks kind of from this

1852
01:46:21,600 --> 01:46:24,080
Christian perspective that are
hitting me.

1853
01:46:24,760 --> 01:46:27,880
And you know, a lot of them were
off base and the bottom

1854
01:46:27,960 --> 01:46:30,600
beginning, a lot of more false
accusations, but then a lot of

1855
01:46:30,600 --> 01:46:32,720
them were were true, they were
hitting right or they're hitting

1856
01:46:32,720 --> 01:46:34,360
me right on heart and I couldn't
ignore them.

1857
01:46:34,360 --> 01:46:37,960
I was just like, no, that's
actually it's actually true.

1858
01:46:37,960 --> 01:46:42,680
I'm actually guilty of that.
And that was one of the things

1859
01:46:42,880 --> 01:46:47,160
is I feel like that that growing
up in the fullness of gospel,

1860
01:46:48,040 --> 01:46:50,440
it's my parents were great
parents and they of course they

1861
01:46:50,440 --> 01:46:52,280
teach you baptism, right?
Of course they teach you

1862
01:46:52,280 --> 01:46:53,200
repentance.
That's.

1863
01:46:53,520 --> 01:46:57,400
But it's weird how we're so
focused on the fullness of the

1864
01:46:57,400 --> 01:47:01,520
gospel as a grown up a
fundamentalist that sometimes

1865
01:47:01,840 --> 01:47:04,120
even though you think you know,
or even though I thought I

1866
01:47:04,120 --> 01:47:07,880
understood, I didn't, I didn't
really understood how to truly

1867
01:47:07,880 --> 01:47:12,560
repent, truly confess, and then
truly know that God had forgiven

1868
01:47:12,560 --> 01:47:15,880
you of your sins, right?
Yeah, yeah.

1869
01:47:16,160 --> 01:47:20,840
And and so it was kind of like
this we it was powerful like

1870
01:47:20,840 --> 01:47:24,800
there's definitely a spiritual
movement we were feeling called

1871
01:47:24,800 --> 01:47:30,280
to repentance big time and and
so it was kind of like we were

1872
01:47:30,280 --> 01:47:34,360
meeting every other night just
just just someone to be like,

1873
01:47:34,360 --> 01:47:37,240
hey haven't let's have a meeting
you know and boom, you'd show up

1874
01:47:37,240 --> 01:47:40,080
and there'd be 20 guys there,
right. 20 or 20 people.

1875
01:47:40,560 --> 01:47:43,360
It's kind of like this, this
tight, this tight little circle

1876
01:47:43,360 --> 01:47:48,120
of your closest friends and
we're just getting together and

1877
01:47:48,120 --> 01:47:52,680
and sharing our experiences and
basically encouraging one

1878
01:47:52,680 --> 01:47:56,600
another.
And and it was always in the

1879
01:47:56,600 --> 01:47:58,960
tone of trying to understand
repentance better.

1880
01:47:59,120 --> 01:48:01,160
Truly repenting and being
forgiven.

1881
01:48:01,880 --> 01:48:06,680
And it's interesting because I
will, I will say this, I always

1882
01:48:06,680 --> 01:48:08,640
laughed at the Christians when
they'd come to me.

1883
01:48:08,640 --> 01:48:11,560
You know, I I actually, I was
actually the guy that would

1884
01:48:11,560 --> 01:48:13,440
debate them for hours at Nauvoo
right?

1885
01:48:13,440 --> 01:48:16,240
When you'd have the preacher on
the corner of Mormonism's Fault.

1886
01:48:16,240 --> 01:48:20,080
You know, it's like I I
literally, I I spent hours and

1887
01:48:20,080 --> 01:48:22,480
hours.
But it's funny, one question

1888
01:48:22,480 --> 01:48:24,000
they'd all ask you to have you
been saved?

1889
01:48:24,000 --> 01:48:26,360
And it's like, I mean obviously,
of course I've been saved.

1890
01:48:26,360 --> 01:48:31,320
Like, you know what I mean?
But now I can honestly say, when

1891
01:48:31,320 --> 01:48:32,520
a Christian asked me, Have you
been saved?

1892
01:48:32,600 --> 01:48:35,440
I can literally say I was like
at 100%, brother.

1893
01:48:35,520 --> 01:48:38,880
Like I know I I can relate on
their level what they're saying,

1894
01:48:38,880 --> 01:48:41,360
which I couldn't be for.
So I think that's quite, quite

1895
01:48:41,360 --> 01:48:44,920
interesting and valuable 'cause
I I never experienced it, and

1896
01:48:44,920 --> 01:48:46,920
even to this day.
Go ahead.

1897
01:48:47,360 --> 01:48:50,080
No, you go.
I was gonna, I was gonna say,

1898
01:48:52,320 --> 01:48:55,920
because we're Mormons, right?
And and I don't want to lose

1899
01:48:55,920 --> 01:48:57,800
sight of this 'cause it's so
important.

1900
01:48:58,560 --> 01:49:02,640
Exaltation is often placed in
front of salvation.

1901
01:49:03,920 --> 01:49:07,000
And I get it right because
exaltation is where we're all

1902
01:49:07,000 --> 01:49:10,680
aiming.
But the first ordinances of the

1903
01:49:10,680 --> 01:49:13,320
gospel have everything to do
with salvation.

1904
01:49:13,520 --> 01:49:18,360
It has everything to do with
confession, repentance, and and

1905
01:49:18,360 --> 01:49:21,120
baptism.
And sometimes, I think because

1906
01:49:21,120 --> 01:49:25,800
we we, we know we've been tasked
with loftier things.

1907
01:49:26,600 --> 01:49:30,400
I think it's it's kind of within
human nature to lose sight of

1908
01:49:30,400 --> 01:49:32,440
the first things.
Does that make sense?

1909
01:49:32,960 --> 01:49:35,800
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
And it sounds like you

1910
01:49:35,800 --> 01:49:38,800
rediscovered those those first
things again.

1911
01:49:39,440 --> 01:49:42,160
Yeah, I mean, like I said, it's
hard because of course I was

1912
01:49:42,160 --> 01:49:44,280
taught repentance.
Of course I was taught baptism.

1913
01:49:44,280 --> 01:49:48,200
But there was definitely a a a a
lot more power to it.

1914
01:49:49,320 --> 01:49:53,040
And you know, and I told that, I
told them at meetings, I I was

1915
01:49:53,040 --> 01:49:55,000
constantly sharing my concerns.
Right.

1916
01:49:55,160 --> 01:49:58,800
And and I told him, you know
what, I'll go as far as I can,

1917
01:49:58,800 --> 01:50:01,280
but when this thing takes a left
turn, I can't go with you guys.

1918
01:50:01,280 --> 01:50:03,480
Right.
You know, just that's what I

1919
01:50:03,480 --> 01:50:06,720
told him, right, right early on.
But I kind of I've, I've

1920
01:50:06,720 --> 01:50:10,800
absolutely like Joseph Smith, my
hero.

1921
01:50:10,800 --> 01:50:14,880
So that's that's like his words.
And I guess that's kind of how I

1922
01:50:14,880 --> 01:50:16,920
kind of got this.
This is one thing I got from my

1923
01:50:16,920 --> 01:50:23,080
grandpa is, you know, scriptures
first and and then Joseph and

1924
01:50:23,080 --> 01:50:26,440
then beyond that it was, you
know, it was all in question to

1925
01:50:26,440 --> 01:50:27,520
me.
That's just how that's me

1926
01:50:27,520 --> 01:50:28,960
personally.
That's how I was always raised.

1927
01:50:28,960 --> 01:50:32,040
So it's really hard to it's
really hard to talk to people

1928
01:50:32,040 --> 01:50:35,320
that that I realized, like I was
talking to a family member and I

1929
01:50:35,320 --> 01:50:39,800
said, OK, if Scripture says one
thing and the journal Discourses

1930
01:50:39,800 --> 01:50:41,840
says another thing that
contradicts it, which one do you

1931
01:50:41,840 --> 01:50:43,280
take?
And he was just like, oh, hands

1932
01:50:43,280 --> 01:50:45,440
down journal Discourses.
I was like, oh, wow.

1933
01:50:45,520 --> 01:50:47,200
You know, it's it's it's weird
to learn that.

1934
01:50:47,200 --> 01:50:50,160
And so that point you're like,
well, you know, of course we

1935
01:50:50,160 --> 01:50:51,800
can't ever come to anything,
right.

1936
01:50:53,720 --> 01:50:59,040
But I love what Joseph Smith
taught on basically we accept

1937
01:50:59,040 --> 01:51:00,600
truth no matter where it comes
from.

1938
01:51:01,040 --> 01:51:03,520
And if you don't you won't come
out true Mormon, right.

1939
01:51:03,920 --> 01:51:07,120
So to me, you know it's it's
that it's that idea that that

1940
01:51:07,120 --> 01:51:10,200
has always shaped my life.
And so I'm I'm, I always say I'm

1941
01:51:10,200 --> 01:51:13,200
never afraid to to investigate
or try anything once.

1942
01:51:13,200 --> 01:51:15,400
Right.
And really feel it out right.

1943
01:51:17,080 --> 01:51:20,920
And so if it's true, it's true.
But I told him, you know, I'm

1944
01:51:20,920 --> 01:51:22,840
saying as soon.
As this thing proves to be

1945
01:51:22,840 --> 01:51:24,080
untrue to me, you know what I'm
saying?

1946
01:51:24,080 --> 01:51:25,960
As soon as this boat tax
attorney is how I've worked with

1947
01:51:25,960 --> 01:51:28,880
it, then you know, I, I, I'm
jumping on, you know, I just

1948
01:51:28,880 --> 01:51:32,440
want you guys to know, 'cause
there's in the mix this, there's

1949
01:51:32,440 --> 01:51:35,720
a lot of of red flags too,
right?

1950
01:51:35,720 --> 01:51:41,680
And to me anyways, but to to
carry on.

1951
01:51:43,000 --> 01:51:45,040
You're kind of oh.
There you're back.

1952
01:51:45,640 --> 01:51:49,480
Sorry.
No, you're good to carry on.

1953
01:51:50,880 --> 01:51:55,600
This is this is obviously
causing a huge stir in in the

1954
01:51:55,600 --> 01:51:59,160
community, right?
And for good reason, right.

1955
01:52:00,000 --> 01:52:01,800
I don't.
I don't blame anybody, you know.

1956
01:52:01,800 --> 01:52:04,320
This is because my families I
have sisters, are married on the

1957
01:52:04,320 --> 01:52:07,280
other side.
Anyways, and I and I told them,

1958
01:52:07,280 --> 01:52:09,280
look, bottom line is, if I was
over there, I'd be doing what

1959
01:52:09,280 --> 01:52:11,960
they're doing right.
So it's up to us to prove

1960
01:52:12,000 --> 01:52:16,000
whether to to take the good
right and prove that it's worth

1961
01:52:16,000 --> 01:52:20,520
something or not I guess.
Anyways sorry I'm getting on a

1962
01:52:20,720 --> 01:52:24,520
side note.
So basically we we all met

1963
01:52:24,520 --> 01:52:28,520
together.
It was it was winter 2019 right

1964
01:52:28,520 --> 01:52:31,760
before the New Year that we were
having a lot of meetings or we

1965
01:52:31,760 --> 01:52:38,760
had quite a few meetings and at
that meeting the spirit was was

1966
01:52:38,760 --> 01:52:44,840
so strong and we felt like that
that we were so close to to part

1967
01:52:44,840 --> 01:52:47,440
in the veil.
It's almost like you could feel

1968
01:52:47,440 --> 01:52:50,160
the veil over over your head
that's what it felt like to me

1969
01:52:50,160 --> 01:52:54,440
like I could almost feel the
veil over over my head and

1970
01:52:55,520 --> 01:53:00,120
basically someone started
speaking in tongues and then

1971
01:53:00,120 --> 01:53:02,400
someone started interpreting.
So that's kind of how this

1972
01:53:02,400 --> 01:53:05,400
tongues was working that's how
that's how the tongues was was

1973
01:53:05,400 --> 01:53:08,840
manifest us.
We always had someone who would

1974
01:53:08,840 --> 01:53:12,360
say something and then different
people would interpret, you

1975
01:53:12,360 --> 01:53:15,400
know, I'm saying it just
depended on who heard it, right.

1976
01:53:16,280 --> 01:53:19,800
And so in this meeting and this
came through tongues and so

1977
01:53:19,800 --> 01:53:22,240
obviously this was all going
around, this had all been going

1978
01:53:22,240 --> 01:53:24,000
around the community.
You can't take tongues for

1979
01:53:24,000 --> 01:53:25,680
doctrine, you know, on and on
and on.

1980
01:53:27,160 --> 01:53:31,680
But this is how it went down in
this particular meeting is

1981
01:53:31,680 --> 01:53:35,600
basically through tongues.
There's a lot of things that

1982
01:53:35,600 --> 01:53:37,280
happened, very powerful spirit
there.

1983
01:53:37,280 --> 01:53:40,760
But through tongues basically it
was we were asking God, what do

1984
01:53:40,760 --> 01:53:42,760
we need to do to come into your
presence to break this battle.

1985
01:53:42,760 --> 01:53:47,000
We feel like we're so close and
God said why would why would I

1986
01:53:47,400 --> 01:53:50,440
come to you in this living room
when it's only because

1987
01:53:50,600 --> 01:53:54,800
slothfulness and lack of faith
that you haven't built a house

1988
01:53:54,800 --> 01:53:58,240
for me?
And he said if one of you were

1989
01:53:58,240 --> 01:54:03,200
to quit your job and work on a
temple full time and his family

1990
01:54:03,200 --> 01:54:06,200
be supported from the tithing,
then it would be money well

1991
01:54:06,200 --> 01:54:10,400
spent.
And then one of the one of the

1992
01:54:10,800 --> 01:54:13,040
the men there.
Because I thought it was

1993
01:54:13,040 --> 01:54:15,800
interesting because several of
us felt the call like, oh man, I

1994
01:54:15,800 --> 01:54:18,480
need to quit my job, right.
And go full time on the temple.

1995
01:54:20,000 --> 01:54:24,840
Several people felt that call.
Well, I, one of the one of the

1996
01:54:24,840 --> 01:54:27,240
brothers there says what if more
than one of us?

1997
01:54:27,560 --> 01:54:33,600
And then it was said, if all of
you quit your jobs, I would take

1998
01:54:33,600 --> 01:54:38,360
care of you, you know, and that
was that actually scared me.

1999
01:54:38,360 --> 01:54:39,800
A lot of things scared me to me
because I could.

2000
01:54:39,880 --> 01:54:42,040
I know, I knew my faith was
there, right?

2001
01:54:42,560 --> 01:54:44,360
Like, I can't just quit my job,
right?

2002
01:54:44,960 --> 01:54:47,040
And I almost felt like he's
being called.

2003
01:54:47,040 --> 01:54:49,120
Hey, quit your job and work for
me, right?

2004
01:54:49,840 --> 01:54:54,880
And afterwards I said, you're
not strong enough to do this,

2005
01:54:55,520 --> 01:54:57,800
but you need to start working
towards this, right?

2006
01:54:57,840 --> 01:55:01,880
You need to start working
towards working for me, I bet.

2007
01:55:01,880 --> 01:55:08,480
I guess, basically.
Anyway, that that meeting, 2019

2008
01:55:08,480 --> 01:55:11,480
meeting was what's was what
started the energy.

2009
01:55:12,400 --> 01:55:16,080
And so through this whole time
we had still been working with

2010
01:55:16,080 --> 01:55:20,600
hiring with the plans, right.
So we had the plans done to the

2011
01:55:20,840 --> 01:55:26,080
to the attic.
We were to the attic And so

2012
01:55:26,600 --> 01:55:30,880
there was about 20 men there.
A couple of them quit their jobs

2013
01:55:30,880 --> 01:55:34,320
cold Turkey and just started
working every day up there,

2014
01:55:34,320 --> 01:55:37,040
right, and getting getting on
this.

2015
01:55:37,800 --> 01:55:44,600
And basically so we started
physical construction and real

2016
01:55:44,600 --> 01:55:49,960
fast the physical building
caught up to the the computer

2017
01:55:49,960 --> 01:55:53,160
plans, if that makes sense.
Even with what we had, we had it

2018
01:55:53,160 --> 01:55:56,000
done almost.
So I find all this interesting,

2019
01:55:56,000 --> 01:55:58,120
like God placed everything in
place, right?

2020
01:55:58,600 --> 01:56:04,480
Right.
And you know I shortly after OK

2021
01:56:04,480 --> 01:56:07,800
so shortly after this this
meeting I'm talking about that

2022
01:56:07,880 --> 01:56:09,680
that they started working on it.
Yeah.

2023
01:56:10,400 --> 01:56:12,960
One of my brother in laws came
out and him and my brother and

2024
01:56:12,960 --> 01:56:15,520
another friend went up to the
Temple hole and started praying.

2025
01:56:16,800 --> 01:56:21,480
And they received not through
tongues but through just

2026
01:56:21,480 --> 01:56:25,120
revelation.
They were told basement to

2027
01:56:25,120 --> 01:56:29,640
steeple in two years.
And you know we talked a lot

2028
01:56:29,640 --> 01:56:32,640
about that for for me, I always
thought if we can set the

2029
01:56:32,640 --> 01:56:34,600
steeple and have the building
dried in in two years.

2030
01:56:34,600 --> 01:56:37,040
Right.
We've we've, we've made that a

2031
01:56:37,040 --> 01:56:38,920
lot of people.
You know, we're just like, no,

2032
01:56:38,920 --> 01:56:40,400
we have to have it finished in
two years.

2033
01:56:40,760 --> 01:56:43,560
So, you know, not that it
matters, but we kind of had

2034
01:56:43,560 --> 01:56:46,200
that.
But it is quite a miracle.

2035
01:56:46,200 --> 01:56:49,200
I can't even tell you how many
like God could have shut this

2036
01:56:49,200 --> 01:56:52,280
project down so many times at
every turn.

2037
01:56:52,520 --> 01:56:55,440
And yet he just keeps opening
things up and opening things up

2038
01:56:55,440 --> 01:56:59,120
and opening things up.
And through a miracle, we

2039
01:56:59,120 --> 01:57:02,720
actually were able to set the
steeple in the fall of the two

2040
01:57:02,720 --> 01:57:05,120
year, two year mark.
OK.

2041
01:57:06,080 --> 01:57:09,160
Real quick, Can can I just make
a couple of observations?

2042
01:57:10,240 --> 01:57:19,040
Yeah, Yeah.
So first I can see kind of if I

2043
01:57:19,040 --> 01:57:23,400
might be so bold, you, you talk
about this extreme repentance

2044
01:57:23,400 --> 01:57:26,800
process that happens out there.
And I don't mean extreme in the

2045
01:57:26,800 --> 01:57:32,200
terms of like, you know,
hardcore evangelical, you know,

2046
01:57:32,200 --> 01:57:35,400
revival.
Revivalist, you know, shouting

2047
01:57:35,400 --> 01:57:38,080
from the rooftops kind of stuff.
But there's a general feeling

2048
01:57:38,080 --> 01:57:42,800
moving through where where the
Lord is, is, is prompting you

2049
01:57:42,800 --> 01:57:49,160
guys to to repent, to get right,
to re baptize, to get yourselves

2050
01:57:50,280 --> 01:57:53,640
right with God.
And what I find very interesting

2051
01:57:53,640 --> 01:57:58,360
is that as soon as you do that,
then kind of the windows of

2052
01:57:58,360 --> 01:58:02,600
heaven break forth here, right?
And and all these things start

2053
01:58:02,600 --> 01:58:04,640
happening in in the building
process.

2054
01:58:06,400 --> 01:58:11,000
So often we look we look at a
temple and we we think it's it's

2055
01:58:12,760 --> 01:58:16,480
it's for the glory of of the
temple itself right.

2056
01:58:17,200 --> 01:58:20,840
And that's not the case
sometimes, I think.

2057
01:58:20,840 --> 01:58:25,360
And and this definitely Harkins
back to to the early Saints with

2058
01:58:25,360 --> 01:58:29,640
Joseph and Brigham part of the
reason the Lord commanded.

2059
01:58:30,440 --> 01:58:34,080
Them to build a temple and not
farm it out to somebody to do

2060
01:58:34,080 --> 01:58:38,800
for them like is done in the
mother Church today was because

2061
01:58:38,800 --> 01:58:43,440
that the Lord wanted a people
humble enough that they would be

2062
01:58:43,440 --> 01:58:46,880
able to build a temple so that
he could communicate with them.

2063
01:58:47,200 --> 01:58:50,080
And I think it's very
interesting that that that

2064
01:58:50,080 --> 01:58:54,120
pattern is repeated again here
out there in in Missouri.

2065
01:58:54,800 --> 01:58:59,440
The next thing I want to say.
Is that the fact you were able

2066
01:58:59,560 --> 01:59:04,040
to go basement to steeple in two
years is nothing short of

2067
01:59:04,040 --> 01:59:07,240
miraculous.
I've worked on a on an LDS

2068
01:59:07,240 --> 01:59:11,040
temple about the size of yours
went back when I was a member of

2069
01:59:11,040 --> 01:59:14,720
the LDS church.
Now the LDS Church today, it

2070
01:59:14,720 --> 01:59:21,760
farms out all of its labor right
to quote the prose and you would

2071
01:59:21,760 --> 01:59:25,600
be hard pressed to get a temple
for the LDS Church.

2072
01:59:26,680 --> 01:59:31,760
That finished in two years, even
with hired help, even with all

2073
01:59:31,760 --> 01:59:36,600
the church's resources.
And you guys did it with

2074
01:59:37,160 --> 01:59:42,360
essentially volunteer help and
not near.

2075
01:59:42,360 --> 01:59:44,880
And maybe I'm wrong, but I don't
think you guys have the

2076
01:59:44,880 --> 01:59:48,040
resources of the LDS church as
far as money, right?

2077
01:59:49,280 --> 01:59:51,880
No.
And so the fact that you could

2078
01:59:51,880 --> 01:59:54,760
do that is nothing short of
miraculous.

2079
01:59:55,440 --> 02:00:01,080
It is nothing short of of quite
frankly divine intervention and

2080
02:00:01,080 --> 02:00:04,840
I I think that's something that
that that should be accounted

2081
02:00:04,840 --> 02:00:10,360
for here because I I think it
shows certainly the hand of God

2082
02:00:10,360 --> 02:00:13,520
they're working amongst the the
folks there in Missouri.

2083
02:00:13,840 --> 02:00:14,600
Yeah.
No.

2084
02:00:14,600 --> 02:00:17,760
And I've I've also thought a lot
about that too is exactly what

2085
02:00:17,760 --> 02:00:20,040
you said.
I, I, I can't help but notice

2086
02:00:20,080 --> 02:00:24,160
that we all like it was kind of
a it was kind of thing, which

2087
02:00:24,760 --> 02:00:26,480
there's a good reason freaked
the community out.

2088
02:00:26,480 --> 02:00:29,080
But we were doing we'd we'd meet
together and then we're doing

2089
02:00:29,080 --> 02:00:30,240
baptisms at night.
Right.

2090
02:00:30,240 --> 02:00:35,040
Just a lot of baptisms.
But it's like like I almost feel

2091
02:00:35,040 --> 02:00:37,160
like God was cleaning us, you
know?

2092
02:00:37,160 --> 02:00:41,560
OK now you're clean.
Now you can now now you can work

2093
02:00:41,560 --> 02:00:42,320
on my house.
Right.

2094
02:00:42,320 --> 02:00:44,160
You're ready to work on your on
my house.

2095
02:00:44,800 --> 02:00:49,440
And and that was, it was one
thing we've always used as you

2096
02:00:49,440 --> 02:00:51,320
know what Joseph said Scott's
not building the house.

2097
02:00:51,320 --> 02:00:52,600
He's trying to build the people.
Right.

2098
02:00:52,880 --> 02:00:55,800
Exactly.
And then the other thing with

2099
02:00:55,800 --> 02:01:00,200
the finances that's like my
brother's the Bishop and that's

2100
02:01:00,200 --> 02:01:03,520
one of his testimonies is, is,
is the finances don't make sense

2101
02:01:03,600 --> 02:01:07,320
and we've had, we've had quite a
bit of comfort contributions

2102
02:01:07,320 --> 02:01:09,840
from people, right.
But to be honest the people, the

2103
02:01:09,840 --> 02:01:13,520
handful of people that that
built this building, I don't I

2104
02:01:13,520 --> 02:01:17,760
don't even know how it's done.
I literally don't like it's just

2105
02:01:17,760 --> 02:01:21,560
a handful of people that's built
this building and and you know,

2106
02:01:22,280 --> 02:01:24,920
it just doesn't make sense.
It literally don't make sense.

2107
02:01:26,720 --> 02:01:28,680
You know, there like I said,
there's a lot of interest.

2108
02:01:28,680 --> 02:01:30,440
There's been a lot.
I don't want to cut people off,

2109
02:01:30,440 --> 02:01:32,800
I guess.
And so I I I hesitate to know

2110
02:01:32,800 --> 02:01:36,280
how to say it because obviously
there has been help.

2111
02:01:36,640 --> 02:01:39,760
But it's actually, on the other
hand, been embarrassing how

2112
02:01:39,760 --> 02:01:41,720
little help has been on this
building.

2113
02:01:42,640 --> 02:01:45,720
You know, for the people even in
this community, how little help

2114
02:01:45,720 --> 02:01:48,720
has been building this building.
It's quite, quite interesting.

2115
02:01:48,720 --> 02:01:51,320
And yet God just keeps opening
up the windows of heaven.

2116
02:01:51,480 --> 02:01:54,080
Kind of feel like it's like the
story in the Bible of, you know,

2117
02:01:54,280 --> 02:01:56,520
you know, you have too many men.
Cut them down more, you know,

2118
02:01:56,560 --> 02:01:57,880
you still got too many.
Cut them down more.

2119
02:01:57,880 --> 02:02:02,160
So at least for ourselves, we
can't deny that God is, you

2120
02:02:02,160 --> 02:02:07,120
know, maybe blessing this
building, I guess, or opening up

2121
02:02:07,120 --> 02:02:08,160
the way.
Right.

2122
02:02:08,400 --> 02:02:11,760
Well, something else I I want to
point out here too that I find

2123
02:02:11,760 --> 02:02:15,280
remarkable is that.
As you've described the

2124
02:02:15,280 --> 02:02:19,400
community out there, and as
you've described how this came

2125
02:02:19,400 --> 02:02:25,920
to be, there wasn't like the one
central figure or even it even

2126
02:02:25,920 --> 02:02:29,320
sounds like necessarily even a
governing body that was

2127
02:02:29,320 --> 02:02:32,000
overseeing this.
This was just people coming

2128
02:02:32,000 --> 02:02:35,680
together because they felt the
call from the Lord and got it

2129
02:02:35,680 --> 02:02:37,360
done, right?
Yeah.

2130
02:02:37,360 --> 02:02:43,880
So you know initially we.
Had started the the the physical

2131
02:02:43,880 --> 02:02:46,720
building of the building and
we're working on some of the the

2132
02:02:46,720 --> 02:02:53,720
details on the attic section and
some complications broke out and

2133
02:02:53,800 --> 02:02:57,760
that's when we decided to
actually what we needed to warm

2134
02:02:57,760 --> 02:02:59,440
a council.
So one of the brothers they said

2135
02:02:59,440 --> 02:03:04,040
hey look we need a council so we
we end up coming together in our

2136
02:03:04,040 --> 02:03:10,400
priesthood body and and and
voted in 12 men to to oversee

2137
02:03:10,400 --> 02:03:12,400
the building project.
Right.

2138
02:03:12,400 --> 02:03:16,400
And so about about halfway
through the physical building of

2139
02:03:16,400 --> 02:03:18,720
the building we actually
organized an official council

2140
02:03:18,720 --> 02:03:24,200
and that's been man so helpful
which meets every Sunday evening

2141
02:03:24,480 --> 02:03:28,960
we meet and and basically talk
you know just just what we need

2142
02:03:28,960 --> 02:03:31,760
to do and go over you know
continue because we're still

2143
02:03:32,320 --> 02:03:35,320
we're still in the final pay.
I mean the things that have to

2144
02:03:35,320 --> 02:03:38,200
be picked out and accounted for
and you know, I'm saying decided

2145
02:03:38,200 --> 02:03:42,240
on just never end.
It's just, you know, I I

2146
02:03:42,240 --> 02:03:45,560
actually can't believe how many,
how many decisions that have to

2147
02:03:45,560 --> 02:03:48,280
be make had to be made in
building a building like this.

2148
02:03:48,280 --> 02:03:49,760
I don't think anybody can
comprehend.

2149
02:03:49,760 --> 02:03:51,600
I mean probably can that's been
exaggerated.

2150
02:03:51,600 --> 02:03:54,800
But I couldn't comprehend how
many decisions have to be made.

2151
02:03:55,760 --> 02:03:57,920
And so that's pretty much those
12 men do.

2152
02:03:57,920 --> 02:04:02,120
And then at the 1st of every
month, anybody that wants from

2153
02:04:02,120 --> 02:04:06,400
the community can come and sit
in the meeting and you know, put

2154
02:04:06,400 --> 02:04:08,680
in there if they've got any
revelation or anything, you

2155
02:04:08,680 --> 02:04:11,640
know, put it in as a suggestion
of hey, you know, this is what

2156
02:04:11,640 --> 02:04:13,680
we got or whatever.
OK.

2157
02:04:14,640 --> 02:04:16,720
And then we do have.
Go ahead.

2158
02:04:16,720 --> 02:04:20,840
I was just to say we do have, we
are organized as a as as a

2159
02:04:20,840 --> 02:04:22,520
church.
We have articles and covenants

2160
02:04:22,520 --> 02:04:25,760
and you know, so we are somewhat
organized.

2161
02:04:26,160 --> 02:04:29,560
But yeah, I know that a lot of
people have come here for the

2162
02:04:29,560 --> 02:04:32,880
most part of this community
functions like Jasmine says, I

2163
02:04:32,880 --> 02:04:35,120
teach them correct principle and
they govern themselves.

2164
02:04:37,080 --> 02:04:40,920
You know, we kind of have things
in place, but they're not really

2165
02:04:40,920 --> 02:04:44,120
used to be honest, right?
They just, everybody just kind

2166
02:04:44,120 --> 02:04:47,160
of knows what they need to do.
And it works because we're, you

2167
02:04:47,160 --> 02:04:50,880
know, everybody just is good
people to be honest, great.

2168
02:04:51,320 --> 02:04:52,960
So that's kind of how we
function.

2169
02:04:52,960 --> 02:04:55,880
And it takes people a long time
to figure that out.

2170
02:04:56,560 --> 02:04:58,160
They're always trying to figure
out, well, how are you guys?

2171
02:04:58,160 --> 02:04:59,960
Who's in charge?
What's this, what's that?

2172
02:05:00,080 --> 02:05:04,760
And at the end we do have things
in place, but it it's it, it

2173
02:05:04,760 --> 02:05:08,400
works very organically, you
know.

2174
02:05:08,840 --> 02:05:10,920
So it's definitely a lot
different than I think.

2175
02:05:11,000 --> 02:05:13,760
What people are used to seeing
in in a fundamentalist

2176
02:05:14,200 --> 02:05:17,080
community?
Dude, when I was out there, I

2177
02:05:17,080 --> 02:05:20,080
was super impressed.
Not just with the temple, and

2178
02:05:20,080 --> 02:05:22,200
I'll get back to the temple here
in a second.

2179
02:05:23,160 --> 02:05:25,880
Not just with the temple, but
with the community at large,

2180
02:05:26,000 --> 02:05:28,000
right?
I was out there a couple

2181
02:05:28,000 --> 02:05:33,520
different days and I I mean.
You got you got a little store,

2182
02:05:33,520 --> 02:05:38,280
a little cafe.
I mean businesses, homes, I mean

2183
02:05:38,280 --> 02:05:40,840
it it a school, if I'm not
mistaken.

2184
02:05:40,840 --> 02:05:43,680
If I'm revealing too much Seth,
let me know and I'll edit this

2185
02:05:43,680 --> 02:05:45,120
out.
No, I.

2186
02:05:45,600 --> 02:05:48,600
I don't want to betray.
You're good now.

2187
02:05:48,640 --> 02:05:51,600
We've already we've already had
a reporter report all of this,

2188
02:05:52,040 --> 02:05:53,960
right?
It's it's out there for people

2189
02:05:53,960 --> 02:05:58,400
to find. 10-4 and and when I was
there.

2190
02:05:58,760 --> 02:06:01,360
I mean, you guys are are really
close, right?

2191
02:06:01,360 --> 02:06:04,320
Because it was down to just
painting the different rooms,

2192
02:06:04,320 --> 02:06:05,760
correct?
Yeah.

2193
02:06:05,760 --> 02:06:12,520
So I mean the attic is still
lacks some some work, but the

2194
02:06:12,520 --> 02:06:15,080
building's pretty much done up.
We're down to one last room, the

2195
02:06:15,080 --> 02:06:17,200
very last room.
Every other than that we're just

2196
02:06:17,200 --> 02:06:19,840
doing touch up and the
paintings.

2197
02:06:21,360 --> 02:06:23,800
Do you guys know what year that
will be dedicated.

2198
02:06:24,520 --> 02:06:29,440
You know, we don't know yet.
We were, we were, if I was to be

2199
02:06:29,440 --> 02:06:33,000
honest, I'm going to say next
fall around Feast of

2200
02:06:33,000 --> 02:06:34,680
Tabernacles.
You know, a lot of people are

2201
02:06:34,680 --> 02:06:38,200
hoping for, you know, April 6th,
we were hoping to have it done

2202
02:06:38,200 --> 02:06:43,680
right now and and then we were
going to take some time to to to

2203
02:06:43,680 --> 02:06:46,600
meet in it and and figure out
how to govern it, right.

2204
02:06:46,600 --> 02:06:48,840
Like what do we need to do,
which we have.

2205
02:06:48,840 --> 02:06:51,960
We have since figured out a lot
of that stuff, but we need to,

2206
02:06:51,960 --> 02:06:54,240
we need to meet together and get
some more stuff sorted out

2207
02:06:54,240 --> 02:06:59,040
before we kind of, you know,
like open it I guess or dedicate

2208
02:06:59,040 --> 02:07:02,880
it, I think, sure.
So I would, I'm gonna, I'm gonna

2209
02:07:02,880 --> 02:07:07,000
say probably not till next fall.
But you know, we planned on

2210
02:07:07,000 --> 02:07:10,240
trying to, if we know something
sooner, we'd try to get the word

2211
02:07:10,240 --> 02:07:12,360
out for anybody that wants to
come to the dedication.

2212
02:07:12,840 --> 02:07:15,680
Right on.
Can I throw out another

2213
02:07:15,680 --> 02:07:17,720
observation at you?
Go for it.

2214
02:07:18,080 --> 02:07:22,160
I was sitting here and I was
just doing the math and if it's

2215
02:07:22,160 --> 02:07:26,400
dedicated in 2024?
Which it sounds like it's kind

2216
02:07:26,400 --> 02:07:31,200
of on track to be in, right from
the time your grandfather first

2217
02:07:31,200 --> 02:07:34,560
gets out there to the time when
the temple's dedicated.

2218
02:07:34,680 --> 02:07:39,480
That'll be exactly 40 years.
Now that's a pretty that is a

2219
02:07:39,480 --> 02:07:42,520
pretty interesting number.
How long did the children of

2220
02:07:42,520 --> 02:07:46,560
Israel wander in the wilderness?
40 years, 40 years.

2221
02:07:46,680 --> 02:07:49,640
How long did it take to complete
the Salt Lake Temple?

2222
02:07:50,240 --> 02:07:52,920
40 years.
I just yeah, that's interesting.

2223
02:07:53,000 --> 02:07:55,120
I'm.
I find it fascinating.

2224
02:07:55,280 --> 02:07:58,000
All I'm saying is that once
again the Lord seems to be

2225
02:07:58,000 --> 02:08:00,760
repeating a pattern.
Oh, you know, another

2226
02:08:00,760 --> 02:08:05,560
interesting thing is, is the the
day we pour at the last oxen.

2227
02:08:06,120 --> 02:08:07,880
OK, so this is how this went
down Dave.

2228
02:08:08,680 --> 02:08:15,120
We met in our temple council
meeting and we were we we have

2229
02:08:15,120 --> 02:08:18,200
to rent to get a crane over
there to set the steeple right.

2230
02:08:18,560 --> 02:08:20,240
Right.
And we thought, well, that's

2231
02:08:20,240 --> 02:08:22,280
kind of a cool, that's kind of a
big deal, right?

2232
02:08:22,280 --> 02:08:26,720
So, so in my mind, I wanted to
maybe push it to that Saturday

2233
02:08:27,080 --> 02:08:33,360
and basically we talked about it
and everyone, everyone in there

2234
02:08:33,360 --> 02:08:36,200
basically was just like we we're
going to be ready Wednesday,

2235
02:08:36,200 --> 02:08:37,800
let's do it Wednesday.
And I was like, all right, we're

2236
02:08:37,800 --> 02:08:41,480
doing it Wednesday.
So that Wednesday after the fact

2237
02:08:42,040 --> 02:08:44,320
one of our good friends did just
what you did.

2238
02:08:44,880 --> 02:08:47,760
It happened that we poured the
very last auction on the font

2239
02:08:47,760 --> 02:08:51,000
which is in the basement and we
set the the, the capstone on a

2240
02:08:51,000 --> 02:08:57,320
Wednesday and that was 2020.
Oh my God, I'm bad with mass.

2241
02:08:57,320 --> 02:08:59,440
So that was exactly, that would
have been exactly 2 years.

2242
02:08:59,440 --> 02:09:02,280
We started in 2020, so it was
2022.

2243
02:09:02,280 --> 02:09:07,640
That was the fall of 2022 and it
landed exactly on Feast of

2244
02:09:07,640 --> 02:09:09,600
Trump's.
You know which kind of blew my

2245
02:09:09,600 --> 02:09:13,160
mind then so and and I've I've
made this.

2246
02:09:13,280 --> 02:09:16,760
I've made this observation.
We've talked about it, obviously

2247
02:09:16,760 --> 02:09:19,800
because like there's so much to
to tear down your faith when

2248
02:09:19,800 --> 02:09:21,000
you're doing a project like
this.

2249
02:09:21,000 --> 02:09:23,080
The devil just hits you and hits
you and hits you.

2250
02:09:23,480 --> 02:09:27,960
And so we try to share.
But one thing that I've that

2251
02:09:28,040 --> 02:09:31,800
that I've warned my testimony is
from that experience when we've

2252
02:09:31,800 --> 02:09:35,080
talked about finishing this
building, whenever it's done, I

2253
02:09:35,080 --> 02:09:37,760
promise you it'll be on God's
timing, right?

2254
02:09:38,800 --> 02:09:42,040
Because every time we try to
plan something like I did it's

2255
02:09:42,040 --> 02:09:44,320
not as cool as when he does it.
So we haven't really worried.

2256
02:09:44,320 --> 02:09:47,960
We just try to put our shoulders
at will and and trust that he

2257
02:09:47,960 --> 02:09:51,280
will get it, help us get it done
when it needs to be done.

2258
02:09:51,960 --> 02:09:54,280
So that is quite interesting. 40
years.

2259
02:09:54,360 --> 02:09:56,120
I'll have to take your word for
it, 'cause that's how bad I am

2260
02:09:56,120 --> 02:09:58,520
at math, but I'm going to go
home and punch those numbers in

2261
02:09:58,520 --> 02:10:01,920
and see if you're right.
Yeah, no, I I I did the math on

2262
02:10:01,920 --> 02:10:04,040
my calculator here 'cause it
caught my eye.

2263
02:10:04,040 --> 02:10:10,520
So 1984 to 2024 is 40 years.
Well, I guess that's easy, man.

2264
02:10:11,240 --> 02:10:12,960
Yeah.
Wow.

2265
02:10:13,560 --> 02:10:18,680
Well you know we're I I'm
there's not a a bone in my body

2266
02:10:18,680 --> 02:10:21,560
that thinks we're not gonna be
done by next tabernacles.

2267
02:10:21,680 --> 02:10:25,160
You know unless God stops to
work for for his own purposes

2268
02:10:25,200 --> 02:10:27,560
that that for sure.
I think that that gives us

2269
02:10:27,560 --> 02:10:33,600
plenty of cushion to get it done
and so that is quite cool.

2270
02:10:34,000 --> 02:10:36,560
Yeah, yeah.
No, I was just sitting here as

2271
02:10:36,560 --> 02:10:39,200
as you were talking about it.
And I was like, OK, how?

2272
02:10:39,840 --> 02:10:42,200
Thinking back to what it looked
like when I was there, I was

2273
02:10:42,200 --> 02:10:44,360
like, 'cause I remember walking
through there and I was like,

2274
02:10:44,360 --> 02:10:47,800
OK.
Probably another six months to a

2275
02:10:47,800 --> 02:10:51,520
year out before it's completed,
'cause I work construction, so,

2276
02:10:51,520 --> 02:10:54,440
you know, I'm a surveyor.
So I'm, I'm used to looking at

2277
02:10:54,560 --> 02:10:56,880
projects complete and that sort
of thing.

2278
02:10:56,880 --> 02:10:58,440
And I'm like, yeah, probably a
year away.

2279
02:10:58,960 --> 02:11:01,760
And then as you were sitting
here talking in 84 was the first

2280
02:11:01,760 --> 02:11:06,400
time that your your grandfather
got there with with all of his,

2281
02:11:06,400 --> 02:11:10,280
his friends.
I was like, holy cow, That's

2282
02:11:10,600 --> 02:11:13,480
like 40 years.
Yeah.

2283
02:11:14,240 --> 02:11:15,560
No, that's interesting.
Is that?

2284
02:11:15,760 --> 02:11:19,880
Yeah, that is interesting.
So Seth, we've covered a lot

2285
02:11:19,880 --> 02:11:21,680
here.
Is there anything else you want

2286
02:11:21,680 --> 02:11:24,240
to go over that you feel is
important that that maybe I I

2287
02:11:24,240 --> 02:11:26,880
didn't give you a chance to say
or or I glossed over?

2288
02:11:27,000 --> 02:11:31,360
Yeah, I should, man.
I got a couple of things I need

2289
02:11:31,360 --> 02:11:36,240
to tie up, and I want to, I want
to, I want to take my time, but

2290
02:11:36,240 --> 02:11:39,680
get through it as quickly as
possible because it's kind of, I

2291
02:11:39,680 --> 02:11:43,120
just want to represent people, I
guess the best I can.

2292
02:11:44,280 --> 02:11:49,400
But I had mentioned that, that
when Robert had first come out,

2293
02:11:49,400 --> 02:11:51,720
you know, I gave him a lot of
pushback and me and him didn't

2294
02:11:51,720 --> 02:11:53,960
necessarily get along real well
at first.

2295
02:11:54,320 --> 02:11:57,600
Right.
I should circle back and you

2296
02:11:57,600 --> 02:12:00,440
know, while he was still here,
we actually became really good

2297
02:12:00,440 --> 02:12:03,480
friends and and built a a really
good relationship.

2298
02:12:04,440 --> 02:12:09,640
We always kind of, I guess, had
friction, you know.

2299
02:12:10,040 --> 02:12:13,960
And I can speak for I know a lot
of us here feel this way, that

2300
02:12:14,120 --> 02:12:18,320
we feel real strong, that God's
trying to do something

2301
02:12:18,320 --> 02:12:20,560
different.
And that was everybody that came

2302
02:12:20,560 --> 02:12:22,240
here.
They came here in their heart to

2303
02:12:22,240 --> 02:12:27,360
try to establish Zion, right.
The place where, you know all

2304
02:12:27,360 --> 02:12:29,080
those who don't want to lift up
their sword against their

2305
02:12:29,080 --> 02:12:31,600
neighbor must please design.
So it's kind of in our heart

2306
02:12:31,600 --> 02:12:33,680
it's it's it's definitely that
idea.

2307
02:12:33,680 --> 02:12:35,840
Not maybe.
Not that we're creating the

2308
02:12:35,840 --> 02:12:37,720
literal center stake of Zion,
but.

2309
02:12:38,040 --> 02:12:40,400
Trying to be a stake of that and
built on those principles.

2310
02:12:40,400 --> 02:12:43,600
And I I know that a lot of us
have always felt that God's

2311
02:12:43,600 --> 02:12:45,160
trying to do something a little
different.

2312
02:12:45,800 --> 02:12:51,360
And so there's, there's, there
was always that kind of I guess

2313
02:12:52,240 --> 02:12:56,040
kind of like what I said with
with just setting things up with

2314
02:12:56,040 --> 02:13:00,880
you know, this guy's in charge
and it didn't work real good

2315
02:13:00,880 --> 02:13:06,200
with Robert in that way in this
community because I guess trying

2316
02:13:06,200 --> 02:13:10,160
to put it in.
Trying to put it in a way that

2317
02:13:10,160 --> 02:13:16,080
people would understand is I
feel like with us here basically

2318
02:13:16,720 --> 02:13:20,400
man, for lack of a better words
it's like we we've we've created

2319
02:13:20,400 --> 02:13:23,680
a lot of idolatries or we're we
really easy fall into idolatry,

2320
02:13:23,680 --> 02:13:27,600
right.
And it's really easy to have all

2321
02:13:27,600 --> 02:13:30,760
this guy's in charge that you
know what I'm saying right.

2322
02:13:30,760 --> 02:13:33,720
Right and to.
To to kind of make man your God

2323
02:13:33,760 --> 02:13:35,680
sometimes.
Exactly.

2324
02:13:35,680 --> 02:13:37,880
It's not and we almost do with
everything.

2325
02:13:37,880 --> 02:13:41,800
So you know so in Isaiah I
believe he basically says that

2326
02:13:41,800 --> 02:13:45,040
you know only God will be
exalted right.

2327
02:13:45,880 --> 02:13:50,400
Nothing else.
And it almost it's weird in I

2328
02:13:50,400 --> 02:13:53,600
I've seen it in Mormon culture
and maybe fundamentals culture

2329
02:13:53,600 --> 02:13:58,600
where in so many ways we're
almost like the Jaredites or

2330
02:13:58,600 --> 02:14:02,440
even Samuel we're this like you
know give us a king where in

2331
02:14:02,440 --> 02:14:04,640
Zion.
I know that basically.

2332
02:14:05,520 --> 02:14:08,000
Christ is the king, right?
And it's too easy if you're not

2333
02:14:08,000 --> 02:14:11,400
real careful to put a man there
where you where it makes us

2334
02:14:11,400 --> 02:14:13,560
lazy, I guess.
Because we don't have to, you

2335
02:14:13,560 --> 02:14:15,680
know, we don't have to, we don't
have to exert ourselves.

2336
02:14:15,680 --> 02:14:18,400
We we just go somewhere.
Well, yeah, and.

2337
02:14:19,040 --> 02:14:21,240
And that goes back to what
Joseph Smith said, right?

2338
02:14:21,480 --> 02:14:24,440
He said the children of Israel
really became darkened in their

2339
02:14:24,440 --> 02:14:28,680
minds when when he's like, OK,
everybody, we're all going to

2340
02:14:28,680 --> 02:14:30,840
come up here and we're all going
to see the Lord, right?

2341
02:14:30,840 --> 02:14:33,320
We're all going up the mountain.
And they were like.

2342
02:14:33,880 --> 02:14:38,120
I don't think so.
Moses, you go right and and that

2343
02:14:38,120 --> 02:14:42,800
was what Joseph, Joseph Smith
said was, you know, they became

2344
02:14:42,800 --> 02:14:45,840
darkened in their minds when
they didn't desire to commune

2345
02:14:45,840 --> 02:14:48,280
with God directly.
Right, right.

2346
02:14:48,360 --> 02:14:51,800
And that that's another thing in
like section 101 where he says,

2347
02:14:51,800 --> 02:14:54,920
you know the time will come when
you won't say, do you know the

2348
02:14:54,920 --> 02:14:56,320
Lord?
For you'll all know the Lord

2349
02:14:56,800 --> 02:14:59,920
from the least, the greatest.
So that's kind of like the idea,

2350
02:14:59,920 --> 02:15:03,280
and I think that God has.
I mean it's my own personal view

2351
02:15:03,280 --> 02:15:06,160
and testimony things.
I feel like God's worked really

2352
02:15:06,160 --> 02:15:09,320
hard to try to keep us out of
creating anything where you can

2353
02:15:09,320 --> 02:15:13,000
just look in and say you know oh
that guy's in charge or that

2354
02:15:13,000 --> 02:15:15,520
groups in charge because
ultimately if God ain't in

2355
02:15:15,520 --> 02:15:19,520
charge here right then then
we're kind of failed I guess and

2356
02:15:19,520 --> 02:15:22,840
so that was kind of what the the
friction was but yet it's it's

2357
02:15:22,840 --> 02:15:25,880
really hard to accomplish things
too that comes with its own set

2358
02:15:25,880 --> 02:15:29,680
of challenges so so that's I
think when Robert end up just.

2359
02:15:30,240 --> 02:15:32,640
Seeing that wasn't working, he
ended up moving up north, which

2360
02:15:32,640 --> 02:15:34,960
actually worked really good
because then he could just do

2361
02:15:34,960 --> 02:15:39,000
what he needed to do and then
you know, we could go up and and

2362
02:15:39,000 --> 02:15:42,040
learn from him and receive from
him and and then he could be in

2363
02:15:42,040 --> 02:15:44,880
total control right where we
weren't having this conflict of

2364
02:15:44,880 --> 02:15:48,640
kind of ideas I guess of how
things should be governed

2365
02:15:50,360 --> 02:15:53,040
anyway.
So, so, so we kind of that's

2366
02:15:53,040 --> 02:15:56,600
kind of what in other words is
what I'm trying to say is that

2367
02:15:56,600 --> 02:15:57,960
was actually a really good
thing.

2368
02:15:58,600 --> 02:16:03,400
And I I mentioned, I mentioned,
you know, that it was kind of

2369
02:16:03,400 --> 02:16:07,000
funny because you know about
right after we started working

2370
02:16:07,000 --> 02:16:09,800
on the temple plans, Robert came
to me personally, You know, he

2371
02:16:09,800 --> 02:16:11,400
looked me in the eye and he
says, you know, I hear you guys

2372
02:16:11,400 --> 02:16:14,360
are starting the temple and this
time don't let anyone stop you.

2373
02:16:14,920 --> 02:16:18,560
Well then the time we actually,
so that's when we're just

2374
02:16:18,560 --> 02:16:21,280
working on the plans, The time
we actually started the physical

2375
02:16:21,480 --> 02:16:25,120
building, you know we've been
separated and he kind of had the

2376
02:16:25,120 --> 02:16:28,160
idea that.
Well, we should all be going up

2377
02:16:28,160 --> 02:16:30,760
there and and building something
up there.

2378
02:16:31,160 --> 02:16:34,320
And you know, then he told me
personally, you know, you need

2379
02:16:34,320 --> 02:16:36,600
to not build that temple.
You need to come up here.

2380
02:16:36,600 --> 02:16:40,639
So I I found that quite kind of
funny that he was the one who

2381
02:16:40,639 --> 02:16:43,280
said, you know, don't let anyone
stop you and then end up being

2382
02:16:43,280 --> 02:16:48,559
kind of like, hey, I think you
guys need to come up here, but

2383
02:16:48,559 --> 02:16:50,680
the last.
I think he had a lot of mixed

2384
02:16:50,680 --> 02:16:53,440
feelings on on this building, to
be honest, 'cause he told

2385
02:16:53,799 --> 02:16:56,520
different people different
things and and he's always been

2386
02:16:56,520 --> 02:17:01,600
engaged and, you know,
interested, but in the end, you

2387
02:17:01,600 --> 02:17:04,840
know, he end up he end up
definitely kind of.

2388
02:17:05,360 --> 02:17:07,680
And I I'm trying to represent
him correctly, I guess, 'cause I

2389
02:17:07,680 --> 02:17:10,520
don't want him roped into things
that he doesn't want roped into,

2390
02:17:10,520 --> 02:17:13,200
if that makes sense.
But I want to give him the honor

2391
02:17:13,200 --> 02:17:15,360
that I that he deserves, I
guess.

2392
02:17:15,360 --> 02:17:18,080
So that's why I want to take
some time on on kind of that

2393
02:17:18,080 --> 02:17:21,799
relationship.
You know the last time that me

2394
02:17:21,799 --> 02:17:24,320
and my brother actually talked
to him and he he just said no, I

2395
02:17:24,320 --> 02:17:26,680
can't tell you guys that you're
not supposed to build that.

2396
02:17:26,680 --> 02:17:29,000
And he said I may have to repent
for the things I've said to you.

2397
02:17:29,959 --> 02:17:32,879
So he's always had mixed
feelings but in a lot of ways

2398
02:17:34,080 --> 02:17:37,120
we've had a really good
relationship but we've kind of

2399
02:17:37,120 --> 02:17:40,120
been think kind of a a pain in
his side too.

2400
02:17:40,799 --> 02:17:45,959
So, but anyways, that that was.
Yeah, you, you know, with with

2401
02:17:45,959 --> 02:17:48,160
that sort of thing.
That's just human nature, I

2402
02:17:48,160 --> 02:17:50,280
think.
To to some extent, right.

2403
02:17:51,520 --> 02:17:55,160
If if you're looking for perfect
consistency all the time from a

2404
02:17:55,160 --> 02:17:58,959
human being, you're going to be
sorely disappointed.

2405
02:18:00,080 --> 02:18:03,240
And so those sorts of things
sometimes you can chalk up to,

2406
02:18:03,240 --> 02:18:09,000
you know, hey, I've changed my
view on this or you know, just

2407
02:18:09,000 --> 02:18:10,959
having a bad day or whatever,
right?

2408
02:18:11,440 --> 02:18:14,480
And so I I think we have to be
careful and I think you've done

2409
02:18:14,480 --> 02:18:18,879
a good job of that of.
Of being able to offer grace and

2410
02:18:18,879 --> 02:18:22,120
and understanding in those times
when when you can't see eye to

2411
02:18:22,120 --> 02:18:26,200
eye with somebody like in the
case you just said, but yet

2412
02:18:26,200 --> 02:18:29,000
still be still be brothers about
it too, right.

2413
02:18:29,000 --> 02:18:33,480
I I think that's that's a lesson
that that the world needs sorely

2414
02:18:33,480 --> 02:18:35,440
today, for sure.
Exactly.

2415
02:18:35,440 --> 02:18:38,440
And that's kind of, you know,
it's, I don't know if you ever,

2416
02:18:38,440 --> 02:18:41,520
ever heard that joke about the
five or the story about the five

2417
02:18:41,520 --> 02:18:43,000
blind man and the elephant,
right.

2418
02:18:44,559 --> 02:18:46,320
You you ever heard that?
I haven't.

2419
02:18:46,360 --> 02:18:47,840
I was.
I was sitting here going back

2420
02:18:47,840 --> 02:18:50,080
thinking, well, tell, tell me
about it.

2421
02:18:51,600 --> 02:18:54,600
Well, you there were there was 5
blind men.

2422
02:18:54,760 --> 02:18:56,200
Men.
I was hoping you heard it,

2423
02:18:56,200 --> 02:18:59,160
because it's been a long time
since I've I've even thought

2424
02:18:59,160 --> 02:18:59,719
about it.
But.

2425
02:19:00,280 --> 02:19:02,600
I can get most of the points.
There are five blind men filling

2426
02:19:02,600 --> 02:19:04,680
an elephant and they're all,
they're all trying to convince

2427
02:19:04,680 --> 02:19:06,600
each other what it was.
And one grabbed the ear.

2428
02:19:06,680 --> 02:19:08,959
You know, they said, well,
here's an elephant SO5 black

2429
02:19:08,959 --> 02:19:11,200
blind men went in, started
filling the elephant and one

2430
02:19:11,200 --> 02:19:13,400
started filling the ear.
And he says, oh, an elephants.

2431
02:19:13,559 --> 02:19:15,160
Elephants like a big, big old
leaf.

2432
02:19:15,160 --> 02:19:18,639
It's like a big flat leaf.
And then the other blind man had

2433
02:19:18,639 --> 02:19:19,920
the tail.
And he's just like, oh, you're

2434
02:19:19,920 --> 02:19:21,440
full of, you know, you're full
of it.

2435
02:19:21,440 --> 02:19:22,840
An elephant's like a rope, you
know.

2436
02:19:22,840 --> 02:19:25,080
And then the other one had the
Tusk, and he's just like, what?

2437
02:19:25,080 --> 02:19:26,200
Like a rope?
You're crazy.

2438
02:19:26,200 --> 02:19:27,760
It's, you know, it's like a
sharp spear.

2439
02:19:28,040 --> 02:19:30,320
You know, the one had the, the
one had the leg.

2440
02:19:30,320 --> 02:19:31,920
It's it's like a tree trunk, you
know?

2441
02:19:32,320 --> 02:19:33,799
And technically they're all
right.

2442
02:19:33,799 --> 02:19:34,879
Right.
If they would actually

2443
02:19:34,879 --> 02:19:37,520
communicate with each other and
learn from each other, they'd

2444
02:19:37,520 --> 02:19:39,799
have the picture of what a real
elephant looks like.

2445
02:19:39,799 --> 02:19:43,480
And and I feel like that's how a
lot of times we are with God, We

2446
02:19:43,480 --> 02:19:45,959
all have a piece of the truth
and we're so busy.

2447
02:19:46,400 --> 02:19:49,120
Contended with each other that
we that we don't realize that

2448
02:19:49,400 --> 02:19:52,000
that if we put all those pieces
together, you know, we could

2449
02:19:52,000 --> 02:19:54,080
actually know what an elephant
really is supposed to look like.

2450
02:19:54,600 --> 02:19:56,920
You know that I'm.
I'm actually glad you told me

2451
02:19:56,920 --> 02:20:00,000
that Cause, 'cause that I think
that definitely applies to

2452
02:20:00,000 --> 02:20:03,480
fundamentalism.
So often we we get in these

2453
02:20:03,480 --> 02:20:05,760
traps of thinking, no, no, we're
we're right.

2454
02:20:05,760 --> 02:20:07,760
We got we.
We know.

2455
02:20:07,960 --> 02:20:10,600
We know beyond a shadow of a
doubt what this is.

2456
02:20:12,440 --> 02:20:16,560
But do we I mean. 1.
Guy outside of maybe some of

2457
02:20:16,560 --> 02:20:20,960
those early early brethren I I'm
not sure any of us have a real

2458
02:20:20,960 --> 02:20:23,840
good idea of what the complete
picture looks like.

2459
02:20:24,240 --> 02:20:28,360
And I think even the most humble
among us who who who have tried

2460
02:20:28,360 --> 02:20:31,480
to figure these things out.
I think when the time comes when

2461
02:20:31,480 --> 02:20:35,040
when the the whole plan is
revealed, we're all going to be

2462
02:20:35,040 --> 02:20:38,400
going like well, I didn't see
that one coming and.

2463
02:20:39,040 --> 02:20:42,680
And and I I think that's a
healthy reminder of of the fact

2464
02:20:42,680 --> 02:20:46,800
that that we all have a part to
play and if we just do what the

2465
02:20:46,800 --> 02:20:49,600
Lord has asked us to do, we'll
be fine.

2466
02:20:49,680 --> 02:20:53,160
I don't think I've ever shared
this on on the podcast.

2467
02:20:53,160 --> 02:20:57,360
Maybe I have, but it it reminds
me of something that I came to

2468
02:20:57,360 --> 02:21:02,400
about a year ago and that was.
It it's funny, I started this

2469
02:21:02,400 --> 02:21:05,240
podcast thinking I was doing
something for somebody else and

2470
02:21:05,240 --> 02:21:08,120
what I found is it's been way
more of a testimony builder to

2471
02:21:08,120 --> 02:21:12,480
me than than anyone else.
As I started this podcast, I

2472
02:21:12,480 --> 02:21:15,440
thought, man, we're we're all we
we all have such varying

2473
02:21:15,440 --> 02:21:17,480
different opinions about so many
things.

2474
02:21:17,760 --> 02:21:20,640
And I I don't know how this is
ever going to work.

2475
02:21:20,640 --> 02:21:23,800
And I remember there was one
night after, I just had a great

2476
02:21:23,800 --> 02:21:27,920
podcast and I just got all my
knees and I said a prayer

2477
02:21:27,920 --> 02:21:30,360
Thanksgiving like I do every
time I do one of these.

2478
02:21:31,200 --> 02:21:36,920
And it it kind of, I just had
this idea and this thought that

2479
02:21:36,920 --> 02:21:39,440
there's going to come a time
where it's going to look pretty

2480
02:21:39,440 --> 02:21:42,120
dark for all of us as as
Mormons.

2481
02:21:42,720 --> 02:21:45,280
And if there's one thing I've
learned from the scriptures,

2482
02:21:45,280 --> 02:21:47,480
it's that God loves a dramatic
ending.

2483
02:21:49,240 --> 02:21:54,720
He He loves a dramatic ending.
And I think that that, like evil

2484
02:21:54,720 --> 02:21:57,280
always does Seth.
I think evil's going to overplay

2485
02:21:57,280 --> 02:21:59,960
its hand.
And it's going to look like

2486
02:21:59,960 --> 02:22:04,600
evil's going to win, and even
Evil is thinking he's going to

2487
02:22:04,600 --> 02:22:07,560
win.
And at that moment, God's just

2488
02:22:07,560 --> 02:22:10,600
going to say, OK, everybody
stand up.

2489
02:22:10,880 --> 02:22:14,160
And we're all going to be doing
our various parts and pieces.

2490
02:22:14,640 --> 02:22:17,760
And when we stand up, the
results going to be as Evil's

2491
02:22:17,760 --> 02:22:22,560
going to find itself surrounded
and as we argue about all these

2492
02:22:22,560 --> 02:22:25,640
things.
Or you know, who's who's the one

2493
02:22:25,640 --> 02:22:29,280
and only who who's, you know,
who's priesthood is valid and

2494
02:22:29,280 --> 02:22:32,000
who's not.
And we have all these questions.

2495
02:22:32,120 --> 02:22:35,800
I I think we'll be shocked to
see who stands up in that day.

2496
02:22:36,560 --> 02:22:40,320
You know, that's that's actually
a perfect segue into the next

2497
02:22:40,320 --> 02:22:45,000
thing I wanted to talk about and
that was, you know, that night

2498
02:22:45,000 --> 02:22:49,080
when I when I talked about this
kind of it was that powerful.

2499
02:22:49,440 --> 02:22:54,160
It was definitely my second
conversion, you know, because it

2500
02:22:54,160 --> 02:22:57,080
was something OK, first I I want
to frame this and I think I've,

2501
02:22:57,080 --> 02:22:58,400
I think I've hit this.
Pretty good.

2502
02:22:58,400 --> 02:23:00,240
But I don't.
It can't be overstated.

2503
02:23:00,240 --> 02:23:04,720
And it's kind of what you're
saying, 'cause I ain't, I ain't

2504
02:23:04,720 --> 02:23:08,360
here trying to call people out
to join anything, right?

2505
02:23:09,600 --> 02:23:13,600
If you if you if you stay right
where you are and you actually

2506
02:23:13,680 --> 02:23:17,880
apply correct principles, then
God will start moving in your

2507
02:23:17,880 --> 02:23:20,520
life way more powerful than you
thought possible.

2508
02:23:20,520 --> 02:23:24,920
And and this the beginning of
that is always repentance,

2509
02:23:24,920 --> 02:23:26,000
right.
Repentance.

2510
02:23:26,920 --> 02:23:32,960
That deep level of repentance.
But that so so going into that

2511
02:23:32,960 --> 02:23:35,360
and that's why that was so
powerful because you know we had

2512
02:23:35,360 --> 02:23:39,120
people traveling 2000 miles to
go make something right like

2513
02:23:39,120 --> 02:23:40,520
that.
It wasn't just like oh I'm gonna

2514
02:23:40,720 --> 02:23:41,520
I'm sorry.
Right.

2515
02:23:41,520 --> 02:23:44,800
If they actually had someone
that that they felt like they

2516
02:23:44,800 --> 02:23:48,040
had offended or done wrong, they
took it serious and they went

2517
02:23:48,040 --> 02:23:52,080
and found them right, made it
better, cleared it up and so

2518
02:23:52,080 --> 02:23:56,560
they could so then and so then
you could be re baptized and and

2519
02:23:56,560 --> 02:23:58,120
then it was weird.
It was powerful when you took it

2520
02:23:58,120 --> 02:24:01,120
that serious.
And so you no matter who you

2521
02:24:01,120 --> 02:24:06,040
are, no matter where you are,
it's not about what whether in

2522
02:24:06,040 --> 02:24:07,840
the church or what group you're
in.

2523
02:24:07,840 --> 02:24:11,280
It's about how how serious you
are about, you know applying

2524
02:24:11,280 --> 02:24:14,400
these correct principles of the
gospel that will work like God

2525
02:24:14,400 --> 02:24:19,480
won't leave you hanging, right.
Anyways, so that that was kind

2526
02:24:19,480 --> 02:24:24,280
of the what was going on was was
taking this, this repentance

2527
02:24:24,280 --> 02:24:27,320
real serious in that way making
everything right, looking and

2528
02:24:27,320 --> 02:24:30,240
deep inside your heart trying to
fix everything.

2529
02:24:30,240 --> 02:24:32,880
And then when you when when the
Spirit stopped bringing things

2530
02:24:32,880 --> 02:24:35,080
up to your remembrance of what
you needed to make right.

2531
02:24:35,240 --> 02:24:38,160
Then go into baptism.
Come up and you know, then it

2532
02:24:38,160 --> 02:24:40,160
was it was quite a powerful
experience.

2533
02:24:40,760 --> 02:24:42,320
And that's definitely what
happened to me.

2534
02:24:43,080 --> 02:24:45,920
So we talked about that night
that I I got baptized in the

2535
02:24:45,920 --> 02:24:47,480
middle of the night and it was
freezing cold.

2536
02:24:48,320 --> 02:24:51,000
So much happened that night.
The next morning I was just

2537
02:24:51,000 --> 02:24:55,560
laying in bed pondering it And
and then I remembered Oh yeah, I

2538
02:24:55,560 --> 02:24:57,880
wrote something down from that
meeting, you know from the from

2539
02:24:57,880 --> 02:25:01,560
the tongues that broke out and
it was to via and and at the

2540
02:25:01,560 --> 02:25:05,520
start of that night, you know,
kind of like I said I'm very

2541
02:25:05,520 --> 02:25:09,000
like cautious and I'm and I
remember my feelings perfectly.

2542
02:25:09,000 --> 02:25:11,000
I was like I'm going to trace
this down and see if this is

2543
02:25:11,800 --> 02:25:13,880
mumbo jumbo, right, just blah,
blah, blah.

2544
02:25:14,040 --> 02:25:15,920
Or whether it actually means
something because different

2545
02:25:15,920 --> 02:25:18,680
languages just sound like, you
know they don't sound like a

2546
02:25:18,680 --> 02:25:22,440
language all you know.
And so I took out that that I

2547
02:25:22,440 --> 02:25:29,360
had written and I typed it in
and the the first the first word

2548
02:25:29,360 --> 02:25:34,080
was to via and it it popped
right up on Google first thing

2549
02:25:34,080 --> 02:25:38,360
that popped up and it and it
said Hebrew a name and it said

2550
02:25:38,360 --> 02:25:42,400
meaning of the name God is good
holy cow and that.

2551
02:25:42,560 --> 02:25:45,760
So we're clear you weren't you
hadn't necessarily been

2552
02:25:45,760 --> 02:25:47,440
schooled.
In Hebrew, right?

2553
02:25:48,240 --> 02:25:50,200
No, no.
The, the, the.

2554
02:25:50,400 --> 02:25:53,560
Trust me, none of us even knew
what Hebrew looked like.

2555
02:25:53,560 --> 02:25:56,920
And that's, that's one thing I
can like, you know, you bring up

2556
02:25:56,920 --> 02:26:00,000
a good point because people
might think that this was a

2557
02:26:00,120 --> 02:26:01,800
this, this could be all
orchestrated.

2558
02:26:01,800 --> 02:26:03,960
There's like, like, who this
came through.

2559
02:26:03,960 --> 02:26:05,400
I'm good friends with her,
right.

2560
02:26:05,400 --> 02:26:08,240
It's my wife's or my brother's
wife.

2561
02:26:08,960 --> 02:26:11,520
And I know for a fact she
doesn't know a stitch of Hebrew,

2562
02:26:11,520 --> 02:26:14,040
not one word in Hebrew.
And neither did I, right.

2563
02:26:14,040 --> 02:26:15,920
Like.
And so yeah.

2564
02:26:16,440 --> 02:26:20,360
And this was more powerful to
me, just the first one, because

2565
02:26:20,720 --> 02:26:25,120
only God knows what I I've been
struggling with and for years

2566
02:26:26,000 --> 02:26:27,080
and I won't go into it.
But.

2567
02:26:27,080 --> 02:26:30,280
But in a nutshell, I felt like
God told me this and this and

2568
02:26:30,280 --> 02:26:34,120
this was going to happen and
then it didn't happen and and I

2569
02:26:34,120 --> 02:26:38,560
and I felt like it really shook
my faith because it was a real

2570
02:26:38,560 --> 02:26:42,320
curveball and through life a lot
of things that happened and I

2571
02:26:42,320 --> 02:26:45,600
and I and I the question my that
kept coming to me and I knew it.

2572
02:26:45,600 --> 02:26:48,040
Wasn't right.
Like, I knew it was a bad spirit

2573
02:26:48,040 --> 02:26:49,640
that kept bringing these on, but
it just kept coming.

2574
02:26:50,440 --> 02:26:51,680
Is God really good?
Like, he's.

2575
02:26:51,720 --> 02:26:53,640
He's not really good.
Like, he's cursing you, right?

2576
02:26:53,640 --> 02:26:56,400
Like he continues to curse you.
He continues to just not look

2577
02:26:56,400 --> 02:26:59,360
after you.
And and in my mind, like I said,

2578
02:26:59,360 --> 02:27:00,800
I knew they weren't right
thoughts.

2579
02:27:01,600 --> 02:27:03,800
And on one hand, you're just
like, well, I know I'm, I'm a

2580
02:27:03,800 --> 02:27:05,120
Sinner, right?
But then the other hand, just

2581
02:27:05,120 --> 02:27:07,760
like, I'm really trying.
Why is why is all this stuff

2582
02:27:07,760 --> 02:27:10,400
happening to me?
Is God, You know, is God, Is God

2583
02:27:10,400 --> 02:27:13,800
good or is he not good?
And so the way that that came to

2584
02:27:13,800 --> 02:27:18,200
me was that's all.
That's all I needed because it

2585
02:27:18,200 --> 02:27:20,760
was so personal to me.
So it may not hit other people

2586
02:27:20,760 --> 02:27:23,840
like it and me, but it just
answered that deep question I've

2587
02:27:23,840 --> 02:27:25,840
had for probably a year and a
half.

2588
02:27:26,080 --> 02:27:28,360
I'm fighting in my heart.
Is God really good?

2589
02:27:28,720 --> 02:27:30,600
And it was just like, boom,
God's good.

2590
02:27:31,360 --> 02:27:38,040
And I'm a very logical person.
So things like it's what this

2591
02:27:38,040 --> 02:27:41,640
did to me is is it made it to
where I couldn't deny.

2592
02:27:41,680 --> 02:27:45,400
Now you can decide whether it
was a bad spirit or a good

2593
02:27:45,400 --> 02:27:48,400
spirit but something happened
where information was conveyed

2594
02:27:48,400 --> 02:27:52,280
right And the information they
conveyed the very first word was

2595
02:27:52,280 --> 02:27:54,600
God is good that you know and
there's no there's no

2596
02:27:54,600 --> 02:27:58,440
explanation literally no other
way to explain it other than

2597
02:27:58,440 --> 02:28:01,240
through the spirit.
Like spirit manifested something

2598
02:28:01,920 --> 02:28:05,320
right.
And so I I sent that

2599
02:28:05,320 --> 02:28:09,440
back-to-back to my brother and
his wife and just like, hey, you

2600
02:28:09,440 --> 02:28:11,200
know, this is Hebrew.
And that's what I mean.

2601
02:28:11,400 --> 02:28:13,680
And we thought that.
I mean that was kind of a kind

2602
02:28:13,680 --> 02:28:16,400
of a testimony to us because we
were wondering, even even

2603
02:28:18,000 --> 02:28:20,280
Jessica who was speaking it,
she's wondering if it's a real

2604
02:28:20,280 --> 02:28:20,960
language.
Right?

2605
02:28:20,960 --> 02:28:23,640
Is it a real language or is it
just, you know, she doesn't

2606
02:28:23,640 --> 02:28:26,880
know?
And so then once we knew it was

2607
02:28:26,880 --> 02:28:29,960
Hebrew, I didn't really even
worry about anything else else.

2608
02:28:30,040 --> 02:28:34,680
You know God is good was good
enough for me, but they end up

2609
02:28:35,440 --> 02:28:38,080
she ended up once she knew the
language she ended up trying to

2610
02:28:38,080 --> 02:28:39,880
to trace down the rest of it.
Right.

2611
02:28:41,120 --> 02:28:43,360
Because it was a it was a phrase
that was said over and over

2612
02:28:43,360 --> 02:28:52,800
again to Avia Saya Como Yaha and
so the so she got back from

2613
02:28:52,800 --> 02:28:54,440
about A.
Week later and said hey you know

2614
02:28:54,440 --> 02:28:57,400
I I kind of figured out what the
rest of that what the rest of

2615
02:28:57,400 --> 02:29:04,280
that said and Isaiah the next
one is is is another easy one

2616
02:29:04,280 --> 02:29:06,960
it's another name it's another
Hebrew name So to via Saya and

2617
02:29:07,440 --> 02:29:14,880
Isaiah is God has created and ha
is basically behold or pay

2618
02:29:14,880 --> 02:29:19,720
attention and this is what stood
me what you said is kum is

2619
02:29:19,720 --> 02:29:26,480
basically stand or rise to rise
up to stand up almost it almost

2620
02:29:26,480 --> 02:29:30,760
it one meeting is to to rise up
against right a foreign enemy to

2621
02:29:30,760 --> 02:29:33,840
stand up rise up basically that
that's kind of that's what it's

2622
02:29:34,440 --> 02:29:39,720
I guess means so that that's
what that's what triggered is is

2623
02:29:39,960 --> 02:29:48,680
kum stand up arise and then
interesting always is is a is a

2624
02:29:48,680 --> 02:29:52,720
symbol it it it always
precursors something before

2625
02:29:52,720 --> 02:29:57,080
God's name and here's the thing
about Hebrew so every letter

2626
02:29:57,080 --> 02:29:59,920
means something too right.
So you can so you can break this

2627
02:29:59,920 --> 02:30:02,440
down in a lot of different ways
like you could make there's a

2628
02:30:02,440 --> 02:30:07,080
ton of information packed in a
in a little thing but Long story

2629
02:30:07,080 --> 02:30:14,000
short kind of what we had come
up with what it means is God is

2630
02:30:14,000 --> 02:30:21,520
good God created rise up and
stand for me I am the living God

2631
02:30:21,760 --> 02:30:27,560
and so you know at that at that
point I had with what with what

2632
02:30:27,560 --> 02:30:31,200
happened through through the
course of that night and then

2633
02:30:31,360 --> 02:30:35,440
kind of my my experience of
being actually freely freely I

2634
02:30:35,440 --> 02:30:37,920
guess feeling actually forgiven
and delivered.

2635
02:30:39,840 --> 02:30:43,440
I didn't I didn't so much need
this and then it was just like

2636
02:30:43,520 --> 02:30:47,240
the the physical side of the the
the cherry on the top right.

2637
02:30:48,040 --> 02:30:49,840
Right.
But it's interesting when we

2638
02:30:49,840 --> 02:30:54,120
talked about, we talked about
patterns because it's almost

2639
02:30:54,120 --> 02:30:58,280
like we're we're struggling with
our own Kirtland experience as

2640
02:30:58,280 --> 02:31:00,920
well.
And you know a few years have

2641
02:31:00,920 --> 02:31:05,840
gone by and it really helps.
I think, I think hindsight I can

2642
02:31:05,840 --> 02:31:11,320
really start seeing more and
more because I always and I kind

2643
02:31:11,320 --> 02:31:14,480
of said this I always thought
that that you know God was going

2644
02:31:14,480 --> 02:31:16,120
to be like good good job.
You know you're a

2645
02:31:16,120 --> 02:31:18,360
fundamentalist.
You guys have the truth and you

2646
02:31:18,360 --> 02:31:20,600
know pat you on the back and you
know what you can clean up a few

2647
02:31:20,600 --> 02:31:23,320
things.
But I never dreamed that he was

2648
02:31:23,320 --> 02:31:27,160
going to he was going to give
me, he was going to give me an

2649
02:31:27,160 --> 02:31:30,240
Isaiah 1 experience.
And I don't know if you're

2650
02:31:31,360 --> 02:31:35,040
that's just been going in my
head and I probably should have

2651
02:31:35,040 --> 02:31:36,840
got it to read it.
But go read Isaiah 1.

2652
02:31:36,840 --> 02:31:40,360
And he basically it's like this
he says your new moons, your

2653
02:31:40,360 --> 02:31:45,160
sabbaths, your assemblies.
I hate them, the away with them,

2654
02:31:45,160 --> 02:31:47,480
right.
And that's kind of the that's

2655
02:31:47,480 --> 02:31:49,480
kind of the information that
we're getting.

2656
02:31:50,080 --> 02:31:56,560
And so then which I I think
Isaiah understanding, Isaiah I

2657
02:31:56,560 --> 02:31:59,320
think can really help us with
these spiritual movements,

2658
02:31:59,320 --> 02:32:01,440
right.
Because what is, what is, what

2659
02:32:01,440 --> 02:32:03,240
you end up having, is you end up
having.

2660
02:32:04,160 --> 02:32:06,440
How do you not throw the baby
out with the bathwater?

2661
02:32:07,040 --> 02:32:11,480
And when when I read Isaiah, I I
I started reading Isaiah and I

2662
02:32:11,480 --> 02:32:13,600
wondered what How did they not
throw out Moses?

2663
02:32:13,600 --> 02:32:16,800
Right, because Moses gave him
because he says Your new moons,

2664
02:32:16,800 --> 02:32:19,680
your sabbaths, all your
sacrifices, he says.

2665
02:32:19,680 --> 02:32:22,640
Your your incenses, they stink
to my nostrils right?

2666
02:32:23,040 --> 02:32:27,360
And it's easy to read the Bible
and and and and think you would

2667
02:32:27,360 --> 02:32:29,120
make those connections but but
if God says.

2668
02:32:29,120 --> 02:32:32,360
That to you, our natural
instinct is be like, oh, I mean,

2669
02:32:32,360 --> 02:32:34,760
if we live back, oh, Moses must
have been a false prophet.

2670
02:32:34,760 --> 02:32:37,040
He gave a seasoned God saying he
hates those, right?

2671
02:32:37,360 --> 02:32:39,720
Right.
But what is, what is God really

2672
02:32:39,720 --> 02:32:42,760
saying?
What he's really saying there, I

2673
02:32:42,760 --> 02:32:47,240
think, is that in some ways.
They weren't digging deep

2674
02:32:47,240 --> 02:32:49,520
enough, right?
They thought we did.

2675
02:32:49,640 --> 02:32:52,720
We we hit this checklist and we
did the checklist and we're

2676
02:32:52,720 --> 02:32:54,720
good, right.
Exactly.

2677
02:32:54,880 --> 02:32:57,280
And And what God is saying.
No, no, no, you're you're not

2678
02:32:57,280 --> 02:32:58,840
understanding.
I want your heart.

2679
02:32:59,840 --> 02:33:01,600
Exactly.
I want your heart.

2680
02:33:01,600 --> 02:33:06,560
I want It's good that you did
this checklist right, But now

2681
02:33:06,560 --> 02:33:09,640
you focus so much on this
checklist that you've lost the

2682
02:33:09,640 --> 02:33:13,000
meaning behind it.
The checklist isn't isn't the

2683
02:33:13,000 --> 02:33:15,680
goal.
The checklist is to bring you to

2684
02:33:15,680 --> 02:33:20,120
your knees so that the Lord can
really work with your heart.

2685
02:33:20,120 --> 02:33:24,040
Now because, and I think as
Mormons, we fall into this quite

2686
02:33:24,040 --> 02:33:25,440
easily.
And I don't care what stripe of

2687
02:33:25,440 --> 02:33:27,160
Mormon you are.
Fundamentalist.

2688
02:33:27,160 --> 02:33:28,200
Mainstream.
Whatever.

2689
02:33:28,680 --> 02:33:31,000
There, there's there's kind of a
plan, right?

2690
02:33:31,200 --> 02:33:35,880
And you work that plan and
sometimes the plan becomes the

2691
02:33:35,880 --> 02:33:37,920
goal and it should never be that
goal.

2692
02:33:38,440 --> 02:33:43,880
That plan is there to drive you
to your knees, to get you to to

2693
02:33:43,880 --> 02:33:49,520
have that relationship with God
that is really required to be

2694
02:33:50,560 --> 02:33:55,000
well, to make you a prophet unto
your own house, right?

2695
02:33:55,560 --> 02:33:58,960
Joseph Smith, I think, said.
That every man could be a

2696
02:33:58,960 --> 02:34:05,040
prophet and talk to God and
that's what the Lord's trying to

2697
02:34:05,040 --> 02:34:07,880
make us into.
And if we're just working that

2698
02:34:07,880 --> 02:34:13,680
checklist, Seth, I I don't think
unless we're looking for the

2699
02:34:13,680 --> 02:34:16,920
reason why we're doing the
checklist it's not enough.

2700
02:34:17,200 --> 02:34:20,200
At least it's not for for the
God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

2701
02:34:20,480 --> 02:34:23,640
He wants your heart.
He wants a relationship.

2702
02:34:24,280 --> 02:34:25,720
Yeah, and that's the thing that
end up.

2703
02:34:26,120 --> 02:34:30,640
You know end up stabbing me
pretty hard and and is I started

2704
02:34:30,640 --> 02:34:35,560
realizing that and it's it's
like we make it's weird it's

2705
02:34:35,560 --> 02:34:37,800
hard to say but we are such an
idolatrous people right.

2706
02:34:37,800 --> 02:34:41,240
We make anything an idol and and
we make our our ordinances idols

2707
02:34:41,240 --> 02:34:44,680
we make our temple idols we make
so all these things are tools to

2708
02:34:45,320 --> 02:34:49,080
facilitate.
OK and essentially it's what God

2709
02:34:49,080 --> 02:34:52,680
saying is is is is what we end
up doing is is is we get

2710
02:34:52,680 --> 02:34:54,920
married.
So and this is how I've worked

2711
02:34:54,920 --> 02:34:59,160
out in my mind is the marriage
covenant is important and the

2712
02:34:59,640 --> 02:35:01,080
and the wedding ring is
important.

2713
02:35:01,080 --> 02:35:05,440
You know the the wedding ring is
a token of the marriage but it's

2714
02:35:05,440 --> 02:35:08,680
what it was what you had is is
so they're like oh we got God

2715
02:35:08,680 --> 02:35:11,520
wants us to get married.
So it's like OK I get the

2716
02:35:11,520 --> 02:35:13,600
wedding ring and I make the
commitments and then they just

2717
02:35:13,920 --> 02:35:15,480
treat the wife like trash.
Right.

2718
02:35:15,520 --> 02:35:17,720
Like, see what I'm saying?
They don't.

2719
02:35:18,040 --> 02:35:21,320
So and now and now we end up
throwing the baby out of the

2720
02:35:21,320 --> 02:35:25,680
bathwater on in both camps,
where on one side we end up

2721
02:35:25,680 --> 02:35:27,800
saying, oh, it's all it's just
about the heart and the

2722
02:35:27,800 --> 02:35:30,080
relationship and then, but we
don't.

2723
02:35:30,240 --> 02:35:31,960
The ceremony means nothing.
You don't have to have a

2724
02:35:31,960 --> 02:35:34,520
ceremony, right?
And then the other side says,

2725
02:35:34,560 --> 02:35:36,720
oh, no, you.
The ceremony is most important.

2726
02:35:36,720 --> 02:35:38,880
And then they end up, then they
end up kind of neglecting the

2727
02:35:38,880 --> 02:35:40,480
bride, right.
I don't know if that's making

2728
02:35:40,480 --> 02:35:41,640
sense.
It is.

2729
02:35:41,680 --> 02:35:43,440
Yep.
You're making perfect sense.

2730
02:35:43,920 --> 02:35:46,600
So that's a lot of, I think
when, when?

2731
02:35:46,600 --> 02:35:50,520
The Spirit of When the Spirit of
God starts moving and any will

2732
02:35:50,520 --> 02:35:52,840
right, because God's the same
yesterday day and forever.

2733
02:35:52,840 --> 02:35:58,440
And it's not anything.
Wherever you're at, if you get

2734
02:35:58,440 --> 02:36:00,680
serious about it, the Spirit
will start moving.

2735
02:36:01,880 --> 02:36:04,800
But then you're going to have to
figure out and I OK, this is, I

2736
02:36:04,800 --> 02:36:07,720
think, why we're so afraid of.
Spiritual movements, right.

2737
02:36:08,120 --> 02:36:11,800
Because with every spiritual
movement you do have a Kirtland

2738
02:36:11,800 --> 02:36:14,280
situation, right?
You have the apostasy after

2739
02:36:14,280 --> 02:36:18,720
sides or afterwards.
But I think if we could if we

2740
02:36:18,720 --> 02:36:21,920
can figure out how to marry
these two things together and

2741
02:36:21,920 --> 02:36:24,280
and we have Isaiah to really
help us because later on in

2742
02:36:24,280 --> 02:36:27,000
Isaiah he says to the law and
the prophets you know anybody

2743
02:36:27,000 --> 02:36:28,480
that speaks different than
these.

2744
02:36:29,840 --> 02:36:34,160
So this all comes into balance
of of tying both sides in both

2745
02:36:34,160 --> 02:36:38,760
halves and the spiritual half
and and and the physical half,

2746
02:36:39,040 --> 02:36:41,720
you know the the the ordinances
and the spirit.

2747
02:36:42,400 --> 02:36:45,080
But you really have to start
digging deep and kind of what

2748
02:36:45,080 --> 02:36:46,680
you're saying, Well, what are
these mean?

2749
02:36:46,680 --> 02:36:49,480
What are these trying to get us
to actually do and then start

2750
02:36:49,480 --> 02:36:51,880
doing those things?
Because ultimately that's what

2751
02:36:51,880 --> 02:36:54,880
God said.
And Isaiah is he's just like

2752
02:36:55,280 --> 02:36:57,280
you're neglecting the sick.
You're you're not taking care of

2753
02:36:57,280 --> 02:36:58,600
the widows, like, you know what
I mean?

2754
02:36:58,600 --> 02:37:00,800
So it's like if you're, if
you're not, if you're not

2755
02:37:00,800 --> 02:37:02,840
understanding what these things
are supposed to be doing inside

2756
02:37:02,840 --> 02:37:07,720
your heart, then he ends up
chastising you pretty hard about

2757
02:37:07,720 --> 02:37:10,720
doing those things.
And ultimately that's what we

2758
02:37:10,720 --> 02:37:13,400
found and ultimately that's
what's been caused a ton of

2759
02:37:13,400 --> 02:37:15,400
confusion.
I mean that's what happened to

2760
02:37:15,400 --> 02:37:18,160
us is we started getting
chastised big time on.

2761
02:37:18,680 --> 02:37:22,600
I mean, it's it, it sounded a
lot like Isaiah 1.

2762
02:37:22,640 --> 02:37:24,080
You know, that's kind of what it
is.

2763
02:37:24,080 --> 02:37:26,080
And we're building a temple.
And also just like, oh, God

2764
02:37:26,080 --> 02:37:28,240
doesn't want ordinances.
God doesn't want on into any of

2765
02:37:28,240 --> 02:37:32,280
this because, you know, when
when you start getting chastised

2766
02:37:32,280 --> 02:37:35,440
by the spirit, then it's real
easy to, like said, throw the

2767
02:37:35,440 --> 02:37:38,640
baby out the bathwater anyway,
right?

2768
02:37:39,520 --> 02:37:43,680
Well, dude, I look you.
You're doing something right.

2769
02:37:44,160 --> 02:37:47,520
I mean, and and I've been
fascinated through this whole

2770
02:37:47,520 --> 02:37:53,080
conversation because.
In some ways, you, the folks out

2771
02:37:53,080 --> 02:37:58,320
there have moved through like
every significant moment within

2772
02:37:59,280 --> 02:38:03,160
within the Restoration, again,
right?

2773
02:38:04,240 --> 02:38:09,360
Setting up a community, building
temples, having these, these

2774
02:38:09,360 --> 02:38:11,640
manifestations like they had in
Kirtland.

2775
02:38:12,120 --> 02:38:16,640
And yeah, I mean, look.
I think it shows that that

2776
02:38:17,000 --> 02:38:19,760
there's a humility there that
the Lord recognizes he could

2777
02:38:19,760 --> 02:38:23,400
work with and and that's that's
awesome to see.

2778
02:38:25,320 --> 02:38:27,200
Yeah.
And that's definitely one thing

2779
02:38:27,200 --> 02:38:29,120
that's been extremely hard for
me and.

2780
02:38:29,640 --> 02:38:31,760
You know, I got, I got to share
this side of the story.

2781
02:38:31,760 --> 02:38:35,480
I was visiting with a family
member and it's it's been so

2782
02:38:35,480 --> 02:38:39,680
hard for me to not just say it's
right or it's wrong to actually.

2783
02:38:40,200 --> 02:38:41,520
I mean that's what I want to
say.

2784
02:38:41,640 --> 02:38:43,240
Oh, it's all right or it's all
wrong.

2785
02:38:43,920 --> 02:38:47,560
And I was visiting with one of
my sisters.

2786
02:38:47,600 --> 02:38:50,600
Like says, we first started with
such a tight little circle and

2787
02:38:50,600 --> 02:38:55,160
it was obvious to me that that
she was throwing out things that

2788
02:38:55,160 --> 02:38:58,000
I knew were true, right, that I
had got a testimony of.

2789
02:38:58,800 --> 02:39:03,160
And it's like I, I actually,
because I'm, I'm, I'm kind of

2790
02:39:03,160 --> 02:39:05,480
the type of personality that I'm
just like, OK, I'm going to.

2791
02:39:06,200 --> 02:39:09,160
If I decide to attack something
with veracity or stand for

2792
02:39:09,160 --> 02:39:12,520
something, it's like I do it
wholeheartedly, right?

2793
02:39:12,520 --> 02:39:17,480
I just and and I was welling up.
I was like, this is BS.

2794
02:39:17,480 --> 02:39:19,200
I am so done with all of this.
Like there's.

2795
02:39:19,240 --> 02:39:23,160
There's so much confusion and
kind of what I've explained with

2796
02:39:23,160 --> 02:39:26,280
Isaiah, Isaiah, Isaiah's helped
me and IA lot of things are

2797
02:39:26,280 --> 02:39:28,680
becoming more and more clear as
time goes on if we can patient

2798
02:39:28,680 --> 02:39:31,120
up.
But at this point in my life I

2799
02:39:31,120 --> 02:39:34,200
was like that's it.
I'm I'm hammered down.

2800
02:39:34,240 --> 02:39:36,800
I'm done with this whole
spiritual movement.

2801
02:39:36,800 --> 02:39:43,200
You know what I'm saying?
And and I that's I I this was

2802
02:39:43,200 --> 02:39:45,280
all blowing my mind I didn't
speak it out right but this is

2803
02:39:45,280 --> 02:39:47,920
what's going on in my mind.
Well I went after we talked I

2804
02:39:47,960 --> 02:39:51,280
went we were visiting on the
temple grounds with with a bunch

2805
02:39:51,280 --> 02:39:54,560
of the family was there.
I went home and my sister and

2806
02:39:54,560 --> 02:40:00,800
brother-in-law, they could fill
my energy building and they

2807
02:40:01,040 --> 02:40:02,200
they.
Were praying for me.

2808
02:40:02,200 --> 02:40:05,720
And they came to me and they
said, hey, look, the bottom line

2809
02:40:05,720 --> 02:40:09,600
is, is we just got a strong
answer that you're supposed to

2810
02:40:09,600 --> 02:40:13,400
fast.
And tell God, tell God reveals

2811
02:40:13,400 --> 02:40:18,120
to you what what you're supposed
to do, because what you're about

2812
02:40:18,120 --> 02:40:21,160
to do is not is.
God is not there, right?

2813
02:40:21,160 --> 02:40:24,240
And I knew they were right
because it's what is what you

2814
02:40:24,240 --> 02:40:28,800
end up doing.
As we we cut ourselves.

2815
02:40:28,800 --> 02:40:31,000
That's all we do is we cut
ourselves off from the spirit.

2816
02:40:31,040 --> 02:40:33,280
And if you pay attention when
you take the wrong.

2817
02:40:33,280 --> 02:40:35,400
Move.
You're just left to yourself to

2818
02:40:35,400 --> 02:40:37,640
kick against the pricks or how
that that's honestly how it

2819
02:40:37,640 --> 02:40:39,880
feels and it's like every time
I.

2820
02:40:40,440 --> 02:40:43,920
I rise up to attack the spirit
leaves me and yet I have a

2821
02:40:43,920 --> 02:40:46,640
testimony of something so I'm
like what it was just been

2822
02:40:46,640 --> 02:40:49,240
really hard.
Anyways I had a trip planned

2823
02:40:49,240 --> 02:40:51,560
like in a week and I was just
like oh I want to be done with

2824
02:40:51,560 --> 02:40:53,480
this fast.
I knew that they were right.

2825
02:40:53,480 --> 02:40:56,960
I've been I've been feeling like
I needed to fast for a long time

2826
02:40:56,960 --> 02:41:01,680
and and she's just like hey, my
my brother-in-law and my sister

2827
02:41:01,680 --> 02:41:04,400
just they went to to both
separate ends.

2828
02:41:04,400 --> 02:41:07,040
The house they said and they're
both told go talk to Seth so.

2829
02:41:08,680 --> 02:41:10,840
And it's like anything, if
somebody says something that you

2830
02:41:10,840 --> 02:41:13,360
don't already, that the spirit
hasn't already told you, right,

2831
02:41:13,360 --> 02:41:16,920
It doesn't mean too much.
It's like I knew I knew they

2832
02:41:16,920 --> 02:41:22,040
were right.
So anyways, I started this fast

2833
02:41:22,360 --> 02:41:25,080
and you know, I try to just
each.

2834
02:41:25,080 --> 02:41:26,520
Week.
We kind of changed it.

2835
02:41:27,640 --> 02:41:29,480
I guess I won't go into my
personal feelings because I.

2836
02:41:29,480 --> 02:41:34,200
Hate fasting and and she's like
I I feel like they're like I

2837
02:41:34,200 --> 02:41:35,680
feel like it's going to be a
long one.

2838
02:41:36,240 --> 02:41:38,000
So I tried to prepare myself
anyways.

2839
02:41:38,280 --> 02:41:39,720
It was one of the best things I
ever did.

2840
02:41:39,720 --> 02:41:42,280
It was it was a fast each week
and it wasn't fast off

2841
02:41:42,280 --> 02:41:44,080
everything.
Sometimes it was off everything

2842
02:41:44,520 --> 02:41:49,520
but through that fast man, God
really changed me even more.

2843
02:41:50,000 --> 02:41:55,640
And I fall all the time, but but
every time it's basically he's

2844
02:41:55,640 --> 02:41:58,200
basically saying you need to
stand.

2845
02:41:58,200 --> 02:42:02,280
For truth and do what you need
to do and not attack people,

2846
02:42:02,280 --> 02:42:04,880
right, Which has been really
hard for me.

2847
02:42:05,280 --> 02:42:08,480
Because I I want to attack
things because he's like, no,

2848
02:42:08,480 --> 02:42:09,880
you need to.
You need to lead out.

2849
02:42:09,880 --> 02:42:12,720
I guess is ultimately what what
I came away with is.

2850
02:42:12,720 --> 02:42:15,280
It's like you need to lead out.
You need to stand up and lead

2851
02:42:15,280 --> 02:42:16,920
out and and and people will come
or they.

2852
02:42:16,920 --> 02:42:19,840
Won't.
That's not your job to, I guess,

2853
02:42:19,840 --> 02:42:24,160
compel people anywhere, right?
Like, set a good example, let

2854
02:42:24,160 --> 02:42:27,320
your light shine and if you have
something then then they'll

2855
02:42:27,320 --> 02:42:31,080
flow, right?
People are starving and and.

2856
02:42:32,280 --> 02:42:34,800
If you have something then, then
it'll attract.

2857
02:42:34,800 --> 02:42:37,720
And like says even knowing all
that, I haven't figured out how

2858
02:42:37,720 --> 02:42:41,120
to accomplish it exactly, but
but it definitely changed the

2859
02:42:41,120 --> 02:42:45,200
way I have to just let people go
and let them because sometimes

2860
02:42:45,200 --> 02:42:46,960
experience is the best teacher,
right.

2861
02:42:47,280 --> 02:42:48,080
Absolutely.
Absolutely.

2862
02:42:48,880 --> 02:42:54,840
So, So, yeah, yeah, that really
after that it's, you know, I

2863
02:42:54,840 --> 02:42:57,960
think that I think that we're
going to see.

2864
02:42:58,840 --> 02:43:00,920
I guess a lot more clarity.
I'm already seeing a lot more

2865
02:43:00,920 --> 02:43:02,640
clarity.
If we're patient enough.

2866
02:43:02,640 --> 02:43:07,640
We we we we we take the Spirit
and we take the scriptures and

2867
02:43:07,640 --> 02:43:10,640
we harmonize things together and
we and we let the scriptures

2868
02:43:10,640 --> 02:43:13,320
help us understand what God's
trying to say.

2869
02:43:13,480 --> 02:43:16,000
It just takes both, right.
You can't just grab a hold of

2870
02:43:16,000 --> 02:43:19,400
the scriptures or grab a hold of
just what God's saying.

2871
02:43:19,400 --> 02:43:22,920
Like it kind of takes both to
keep you going somewhat straight

2872
02:43:23,160 --> 02:43:26,640
across the sea, so to speak.
So that that's what I'm trying

2873
02:43:26,640 --> 02:43:31,840
to do in my life and.
But I can promise anybody if you

2874
02:43:32,320 --> 02:43:35,440
if you start the steps and you
and you find.

2875
02:43:35,440 --> 02:43:40,400
The repentance you find the
humility and you actually humble

2876
02:43:40,400 --> 02:43:44,480
yourself down low enough.
Like God will speak to you, He

2877
02:43:44,480 --> 02:43:46,040
will.
You just have to learn how to

2878
02:43:46,040 --> 02:43:49,440
hear him.
But after he starts doing that

2879
02:43:50,000 --> 02:43:52,160
then a lot of confusion can set
in too.

2880
02:43:53,000 --> 02:43:55,520
And but it's but it's worth it,
right?

2881
02:43:55,680 --> 02:43:57,080
Because.
Because.

2882
02:43:57,640 --> 02:44:00,440
You're dead it's it ends up
being a dead gospel without

2883
02:44:00,440 --> 02:44:05,280
actual that that connection with
the heavens I guess so to speak.

2884
02:44:06,280 --> 02:44:07,680
Yeah and ultimate.
Oh go ahead.

2885
02:44:07,720 --> 02:44:09,640
Sorry.
All I was gonna say ultimately

2886
02:44:09,640 --> 02:44:12,560
bringing it back full circle is
kind of so worth is is I think

2887
02:44:12,560 --> 02:44:16,160
that's what truly Zion will be
is when everybody is keeping up

2888
02:44:16,160 --> 02:44:18,240
self in check because they're
like oh I just offended the

2889
02:44:18,240 --> 02:44:21,520
spirit right.
Like the spirit just left me and

2890
02:44:21,520 --> 02:44:26,360
then nobody has to so so that at
that at that point God is.

2891
02:44:27,040 --> 02:44:31,240
The the literal king of of of
the wherever you're at right

2892
02:44:31,640 --> 02:44:34,240
because you're accountable to
the spirit and and you're and

2893
02:44:34,240 --> 02:44:37,960
you're you've you've you've
created a sensitive heart to be

2894
02:44:37,960 --> 02:44:43,800
able to hear it and ultimately
that's I think what we're really

2895
02:44:43,800 --> 02:44:48,160
interested in trying to create
here is is that where and that's

2896
02:44:48,160 --> 02:44:50,760
kind of interesting enough kind
of what you said is you know

2897
02:44:51,040 --> 02:44:53,520
everybody just trying to follow
the spirit and and do the right

2898
02:44:53,520 --> 02:44:55,680
thing and work together in a
very organic way.

2899
02:44:56,440 --> 02:45:02,120
And and let God lead because if
he's not leading, if, if, if,

2900
02:45:02,160 --> 02:45:05,680
if, if, it's if.
If it's men, right.

2901
02:45:05,680 --> 02:45:07,160
Who's interested?
I know I'm not.

2902
02:45:07,240 --> 02:45:10,320
I'm not interested in a group of
men or a man doing anything.

2903
02:45:10,680 --> 02:45:15,440
If we're not following God then
then I'm not interested.

2904
02:45:15,720 --> 02:45:18,560
So I think that's got to be at
the the forefront of our hearts

2905
02:45:18,560 --> 02:45:22,600
is is.
God is the king and we exalt him

2906
02:45:22,600 --> 02:45:24,320
and everything is the point to
him.

2907
02:45:24,320 --> 02:45:27,560
Everything he's has us do is to
help us build our relationship

2908
02:45:27,920 --> 02:45:30,440
with each other and with him I
guess if that makes sense.

2909
02:45:30,440 --> 02:45:33,920
So that I got that's a long way
around I guess that's kind of my

2910
02:45:33,920 --> 02:45:36,760
testimony maybe getting preachy
here but anyway that's that's

2911
02:45:36,760 --> 02:45:42,280
pretty much what I had with that
is, is for one I want to make it

2912
02:45:42,280 --> 02:45:46,000
clear that that it's not about
come here or go there.

2913
02:45:46,040 --> 02:45:49,600
It doesn't matter where you're
at if you if you start applying

2914
02:45:49,600 --> 02:45:52,200
the right.
Ingredients and live at what the

2915
02:45:52,200 --> 02:45:55,000
gospel teaches.
Then you're going to have you're

2916
02:45:55,360 --> 02:45:59,000
going to have results right.
And and I guess that's one thing

2917
02:45:59,000 --> 02:46:02,160
that my grandpa instilled in me
and when I said I, I looked up

2918
02:46:02,160 --> 02:46:04,440
to him.
It's funny, I I need to clarify

2919
02:46:04,440 --> 02:46:07,520
that because the thing that I
loved about him the very most

2920
02:46:07,920 --> 02:46:08,960
was he.
I don't.

2921
02:46:09,040 --> 02:46:12,640
When he'd speak, he made me
believe that I could hear God.

2922
02:46:13,640 --> 02:46:17,960
You know that God could speak to
me and that took a long time for

2923
02:46:17,960 --> 02:46:21,080
me to be able to hear, but in
the end, I learned that it

2924
02:46:21,080 --> 02:46:23,200
wasn't God's problem, it was my
problem, right?

2925
02:46:23,200 --> 02:46:25,840
God's always speaking.
We just can't hear him because

2926
02:46:25,840 --> 02:46:28,080
we're not we.
We have stiff necks and hard

2927
02:46:28,080 --> 02:46:30,400
hearts, right?
That like those scriptures just

2928
02:46:30,400 --> 02:46:33,920
keep beating on me stiff necks
and hard hearts and I that's

2929
02:46:33,920 --> 02:46:36,520
what I'm trying to if I could
leave anything with.

2930
02:46:36,960 --> 02:46:40,880
With your listeners, it would be
that that God can absolutely

2931
02:46:40,880 --> 02:46:43,960
speak to you, right?
And I guess I'll try to pass on

2932
02:46:43,960 --> 02:46:48,680
what my grandpa passed on to me
was, is no matter who you are,

2933
02:46:48,680 --> 02:46:51,360
this is what this is what he
said with his first or not, it

2934
02:46:51,360 --> 02:46:54,400
wasn't his first experience.
But with King Springs, he said,

2935
02:46:54,440 --> 02:46:57,600
he always said God called me and
he knew my name and he'd always

2936
02:46:57,600 --> 02:47:00,040
say he knows your name like,
like that was quite powerful to

2937
02:47:00,040 --> 02:47:01,360
him.
And the way he expressed it was

2938
02:47:01,360 --> 02:47:03,200
always powerful Me like he knows
your name.

2939
02:47:03,440 --> 02:47:06,440
So whoever you are, he knows.
He knows your name, which is

2940
02:47:06,440 --> 02:47:10,640
quite special, and the the
gospel works.

2941
02:47:10,640 --> 02:47:12,640
If you apply the right
ingredients, you're going to

2942
02:47:12,640 --> 02:47:16,840
start getting results.
But with us, or at least with me

2943
02:47:16,920 --> 02:47:20,840
and I, we have always been
really different even than a lot

2944
02:47:20,840 --> 02:47:23,520
of the, I guess a lot of the
other circles.

2945
02:47:24,760 --> 02:47:30,040
But even I was surprised that
still how chastising God was

2946
02:47:30,040 --> 02:47:32,000
like, you guys got to get your
hearts right, like there's too

2947
02:47:32,000 --> 02:47:33,920
much idolatry.
And I didn't think we had any

2948
02:47:33,920 --> 02:47:35,160
right.
Right.

2949
02:47:36,400 --> 02:47:39,880
But but we did and I I think
that's the biggest thing that

2950
02:47:39,880 --> 02:47:44,800
that was facing me is is
idolatry things.

2951
02:47:44,960 --> 02:47:50,040
Things for one sins that I
couldn't, that not knowing how

2952
02:47:50,040 --> 02:47:55,560
to truly be free of my sins.
And then for two just a hard

2953
02:47:55,560 --> 02:47:58,600
heart, a stiff neck and
idolatry.

2954
02:47:58,600 --> 02:48:00,120
Things.
Things in the place think good.

2955
02:48:00,120 --> 02:48:03,680
Things you think are good and
God's like, you got you got to

2956
02:48:03,680 --> 02:48:06,200
move it all out.
You know, got to put him very

2957
02:48:06,200 --> 02:48:09,360
first, I guess, right?
Yeah.

2958
02:48:09,720 --> 02:48:12,440
No, I I couldn't agree with you
more.

2959
02:48:12,440 --> 02:48:13,880
I mean, there were there.
Was a couple things you

2960
02:48:13,880 --> 02:48:16,920
mentioned in there that that
resonated me with me.

2961
02:48:16,920 --> 02:48:21,000
One was this idea that we have
to attack right?

2962
02:48:21,360 --> 02:48:24,600
And and look, we we need to
stand for principle.

2963
02:48:25,160 --> 02:48:29,720
We need to stand for truth.
But we don't necessarily need to

2964
02:48:29,720 --> 02:48:33,880
attack.
I go back to Gandhi who?

2965
02:48:34,360 --> 02:48:40,360
He his people were oppressed.
And look, I'm not saying Gandhi

2966
02:48:40,360 --> 02:48:41,960
was was a.
Perfect individual.

2967
02:48:41,960 --> 02:48:45,000
That's not what I'm saying.
What I am saying is that he was

2968
02:48:45,000 --> 02:48:52,640
very cognizant of using Christ
as an example of of peaceful,

2969
02:48:52,640 --> 02:48:57,120
nonviolent resistance.
And what that did is that one

2970
02:48:57,120 --> 02:49:01,160
people to his side.
He wasn't a weak.

2971
02:49:01,160 --> 02:49:03,520
Man, he didn't just back down to
the British.

2972
02:49:04,080 --> 02:49:08,160
But what he did do is that he
stood and he stood peacefully.

2973
02:49:08,960 --> 02:49:10,520
And sometimes that's all it
takes.

2974
02:49:10,960 --> 02:49:14,080
And Seth, I can.
I can identify with what you

2975
02:49:14,080 --> 02:49:17,480
were feeling so much.
There are so many times that I'm

2976
02:49:17,480 --> 02:49:23,880
so thankful I I have the wives I
do to to temper me because I I

2977
02:49:23,880 --> 02:49:26,480
am the first guy that's like
grab the spear and the shield,

2978
02:49:26,480 --> 02:49:28,120
let's kick down the door and
let's go.

2979
02:49:29,120 --> 02:49:30,960
Right.
And they're like, well, maybe

2980
02:49:30,960 --> 02:49:34,960
that's not the best tack here,
right, Exactly.

2981
02:49:34,960 --> 02:49:37,240
And so they keep me, they keep
me honest and they keep me

2982
02:49:37,240 --> 02:49:38,680
humble.
And I'll I'll forever be

2983
02:49:38,680 --> 02:49:42,320
grateful and and and love them
for for that, for sure.

2984
02:49:43,360 --> 02:49:45,320
But that's not often what's
needed.

2985
02:49:45,400 --> 02:49:47,960
Sometimes you just have to
stand, right?

2986
02:49:48,160 --> 02:49:50,040
Yeah.
Well, well, the thing that's

2987
02:49:50,040 --> 02:49:53,200
been really hard to me is it's
amazing how hard it's been for

2988
02:49:53,200 --> 02:49:55,600
me to.
And I fail every day.

2989
02:49:55,600 --> 02:49:57,760
So anybody thinks that I'm
they're like oh this that's a

2990
02:49:57,760 --> 02:50:03,720
hip Ric and I I fail every day
to to to know how to stand and

2991
02:50:03,720 --> 02:50:08,280
and share your share truth that
God has given you and yet not

2992
02:50:08,560 --> 02:50:11,600
you know just go and attack is
actually extremely hard to do at

2993
02:50:11,600 --> 02:50:16,880
least for me I it's.
I I automatically turn into to

2994
02:50:16,880 --> 02:50:20,200
attack and Condemning, you know,
instead of just letting your

2995
02:50:20,200 --> 02:50:23,640
light shine and planting seeds
and let the seeds grow.

2996
02:50:23,640 --> 02:50:25,440
So.
Yep, Absolutely.

2997
02:50:25,760 --> 02:50:27,840
Absolutely, dude.
Beautiful stuff.

2998
02:50:27,960 --> 02:50:31,240
You got anything else?
I think that's it Dave.

2999
02:50:31,240 --> 02:50:34,280
I I think, I think that's all I
got.

3000
02:50:34,320 --> 02:50:36,720
So perfect.
All right.

3001
02:50:36,720 --> 02:50:39,480
Well, that's awesome.
Seth, you're the man.

3002
02:50:39,600 --> 02:50:41,320
I appreciate you so.
Much, buddy.

3003
02:50:41,640 --> 02:50:42,800
You too.
Thank you, Dave.

3004
02:50:43,120 --> 02:50:44,400
All right.
Bye everybody.