Episode #95: Tools For Healthier People & Families W/Liz Bradley

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So there's certain things that I
never thought I'd have to deal

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with when I first started this
podcast.

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One of the things that took me
by surprise were emails that I

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have gotten from listeners
asking me if I knew someone they

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could go to to try and improve
their family relationships.

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I looked around and there
weren't too many counselors I

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felt comfortable referring
Mormon fundamentalist to.

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I did, however, find someone who
I think could be a godsend to

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some of those who've reached out
to me.

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Her name is Liz Bradley.
I talked with Liz quite a bit on

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the phone before I had her on
the podcast, just to make sure

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she was who I thought she was.
Now Liz is an emotional

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breakthrough coach who is
interested in helping people

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heal both spiritually and
emotionally through a religious

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lens, rather than just trying to
mask symptoms.

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In our conversation, we talk
about what the difference is

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between what she does and
traditional counseling.

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We also talk about what made her
decide to set up and start her

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own practice.
We then move into How the

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Atonement of Jesus Christ
factors and your Techniques for

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Helping People heal.
That and more on this episode of

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the Mormon Renegade Podcast.
Look, it's no secret that our

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society has become much more
crude and coarse.

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To become and raise men and
women of virtue and character is

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a Herculean task.
To help with this, I've recently

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wrote and published a book.
Now, back in the 1700s,

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Washington had a book called
Rules of Civility and Decent

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Behavior and Company and
Conversation.

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It was a book with 110 rules
that talked about how to conduct

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yourself like a civilized person
in society, something that

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today's society is sorely
lacking.

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What I did is I went back
through the book and I

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reinterpreted his original
sayings for the 21st century.

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So the book is laid out in a way
in which you see Washington's

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original rule.
Right below that is my

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explanation for the 21st
century, and below that you'll

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find two or three examples of
where to use this in the real

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world.
Now, to go along with this,

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there's a workbook that helps
parents teach these principles

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and practices to their kids.
To find the book, go to

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mormonrenegade.com, go to the
bottom of the page, search out

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the blog post, and order your
copy.

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Today I can bear personal
testimony from personal

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experience that this is an
invaluable tool to help you

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raise men and women of virtue
and character.

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You're listening to the Mormon
Renegade podcast, Liz, how you

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doing?
I'm doing good.

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How are you?
Good.

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So like, we've bumped around a
little bit on some common

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Facebook group pages and we know
some, a few few people.

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And when I saw what you were
doing, I was fascinated and I I

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knew I wanted to get you on and
and we'll dive into that more in

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in just a minute.
But real quick, let's give the

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audience a chance to get to know
who you are.

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So your name's Liz Bradley and
and were you always a Mormon?

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Did you grow up Mormon?
I did, yeah.

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I was.
I was born into it.

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Nice.
Nice.

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Lived in Utah.
No, I was born in a tiny town in

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Idaho.
But and my parents, my dad had a

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farm that he'd had
generationally.

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And he.
Long story short, there's kind

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of a problem with water in the
area, which made farming harder.

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And when the farm wouldn't pay
for itself, when he had to go

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off to the farm to make money in
order to keep things going, he

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decided to move us.
And so we went from tiny, tiny

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looks like a truck stop town in
Idaho to Southern California,

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not LA.
But a city which at the time was

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similar to, well, I don't know
what to compare it to because I

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don't know where your listeners
are.

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But not a large city, but a city
in like a moderate sized city in

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in California.
What was the name of the town?

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In Idaho?
Urban Say what?

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What was the town in?
Idaho arco.

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Well, Arco was.
The hospital where I was born,

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but I my parents lived in Moore.
Which is where King Mountain is.

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Yep, King Mountain was named
after my ancestors.

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OK, OK, cool.
Now I actually I spent a lot of

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years in Idaho.
I was up in Boise and then

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almost to the Oregon border, a
little town called Parma and

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then also lived in Shoshone,
Idaho for a little while, about

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22 miles north of of Twin.
And but man I traipsed all over

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that state early in my my
career.

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So I, I, I know where you're
where you're talking.

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So nice little area.
Sorry.

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No you're good.
So, so you moved to California

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and then is that where you spend
the rest of your teenage years?

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So we moved there when I was
about four and we moved away

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from there when I was 10.
I was only there six years, but

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I honestly would say that I grew
up there.

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Because that's where a lot of
formative things happened.

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So we moved to Orem, UT when I
was 10, and then I lived in Orem

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until until shortly after we
were married.

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And then when I was just after I
had our first baby, two weeks

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after I moved out to California,
where my husband was already

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there doing military training.
Gotcha, gotcha.

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So you've been all, you've been
all over a little bit then?

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Yeah, And then after that it was
Texas.

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Nebraska.
A little stint in Utah, Florida,

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Georgia, Arizona, California.
Again, North Dakota, then Idaho.

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And not, not necessarily all in
those or that order, but so in

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North Dakota, was he in the Air
Force?

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So he got out of the Air Force,
I think 2008, and then continued

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working as a contractor doing
similar work.

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And when in 2020, his company,
after months of encouraging him

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to get the shot, let him go.
Oh, oh, so in North Dakota,

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where where were you at in North
Dakota?

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Oh my gosh, I'm having a blank.
I think Grand Forks, Grand

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Forks, Grand Forks.
I have to.

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I don't.
I just had a total.

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No, it's on the street.
It's all right.

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Remember we spent some time in
North Dakota as well.

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We were in Minot and then lived
in and and Grand Forks as well.

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So that's interesting.
Yeah, I.

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Think Grand Forks.
He got the shot and then they

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cut him.
No, he did not get the shot.

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He did not get the shot, OK?
So they technically did not

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state that as the reason, but
after months of the pressure and

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then the night before we he
received the call, they had sent

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everybody in the company the
form to upload their vaccine

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status and then the next morning
got the call.

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So we can't absolutely say that
it was because of the shot, but

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it was because of the shot.
Everything kind of points in

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that direction.
Yeah, I don't.

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Know, I mean, there are there
are guys that he worked with, it

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didn't lose their jobs.
Like they still have their jobs,

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but the company won't assign
them anywhere without the shot.

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And so while they still have
their jobs, they're not really

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working, so they're not really
getting paid.

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That must have been stressful on
you guys.

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It was.
We went back to his income based

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on what he could get in the
local area we were in, was about

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what he was making when my
oldest child was a baby.

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Oh.
No.

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So yeah, it's been.
It's been real.

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I bet.
I bet.

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Well, that's horrible.
I hope he finds something else.

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He is working into something
else right now.

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Good, good, good.
And it.

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Now I feel like this might be a
good place to make this jump.

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Is that when you decided to open
up your own practice?

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To start coaching again, Yeah.
No, it was more recently and

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that.
I mean, I contemplated it

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throughout that time, but the
Lord really wanted me focusing

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on other things and that's what
I did.

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So gotcha, gotcha.
And so real quick, you're a an

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emotional breakthrough coach,
correct?

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Yeah.
OK.

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And and and one of the reasons,
the main reason I brought you on

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is that within in my community
and I want to stress that, that

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Liz is an an active member of
the LDS Church, but she's got no

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problems with fundamentalists,
right.

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We'll just, we'll just get that
out of the way.

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But one of the reasons I had you
on is because as I've looked

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around, fundamentalism, just
like all people, right, We, we

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get classified into groups.
And sometimes we think, well,

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because I'm a part of this
group, I won't have the same

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kind of problems everyone else
does.

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And certainly there's there's
something to be said for that,

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right.
Typically, if you're a Mormon,

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you're not going to have a ton
of problems with tobacco, right,

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just because of culture and
those sorts of things.

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But you could, you could it.
It can happen.

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By and large, general generally,
right.

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Making a generalization, that's
not something you struggle with.

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However, I do think that there
are things that people go

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through that are ubiquitous to
humanity that just come with

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with being human, right.
I think we're all broken to some

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extent.
I think we all got garbage we

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got to clean up in our own lives
and and baggage that we carry.

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And unfortunately again with
with being in in our classifying

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ourselves into groups, sometimes
that allows us to get put into

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positions to where if we needed
to seek the help of another

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person like a life coach or a
counselor or something like

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that, it becomes a little more
tricky.

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Especially for fundamentalists.
Because now you're there have

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been stories that are true where
where fundamentalists have gone

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to counseling and then the
counselor says, well, you're all

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screwed up because you're living
this way and this can't work and

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so the family breaks apart.
However, that that doesn't mean

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that we still don't deal with
some issues that we could

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benefit from talking to another
person.

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And so as I've had a few
listeners reach out to me asking

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me for those kinds of resources,
I've kind of drawn a blank.

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And so I had kept my eye out.
And as I was just scrolling

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through Facebook, we're, we're
Facebook friends, I saw that

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that you had opened up this
practice and I was like, OK,

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this might be, this might be
something that's when I reached

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out to you.
So real quick, what What does an

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emotional breakthrough coach do?
So.

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What I what I like to do is so
we all have we have goals and we

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have aims both about things we
want to accomplish but also

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about the how we want to be.
And as followers of Jesus Christ

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there are certain things that we
want to let go of in our lives

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and ways that we want to heal
and become better.

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And what I do is I help people
identify the things that are in

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the way and using the scriptures
and.

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And principles that I've learned
over the years, I I help people

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to kind of move past those
things.

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Gotcha.
And how did how did you get into

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this work?
I mean, it seems like it's not

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something that you take a test
at school and they're like if

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you should be a life coach,
right?

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I've never seen that or an
emotional breakthrough coach.

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How how did you think about this
as as like a career path?

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So.
In a lot of ways, my entire life

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has been preparing me for it.
It really so at a really young

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age I experienced abuse from
someone outside my family and I.

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So really since the age of about
four or five, I have been

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studying principles of healing.
That's the way to put it.

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My foundation and the gospel
really saved me from a lot of

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things.
Going to church every week and

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singing I'm A Child of God
helped me to know that while I

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was dealing with enormous
amounts of shame and feelings of

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filthiness from that abuse, that
that wasn't me.

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That that was, and it did take
years of working to sort some

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things out because when you're a
child, you can't even, you can't

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even articulate the problem, let
alone, you know, get the help

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you need.
And so but as I clung to the

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foundation principles of I have
a heavenly Father and he loves

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me and I'm his daughter, that
grounded me and it wasn't easy.

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I I.
It was a lot of work, but as I

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held to those principles and
principles of repentance and

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principles of the Lord's power
to heal, the atonement was a

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really big part of it.
And then I had a lot of life

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experience.
Plus I read everything I could

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possibly read.
I I went through personal

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development programs and
certifications and.

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You know, I even I I've done, I
had had some traditional

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counseling.
For me it was a stumbling block,

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the traditional counseling
because of things like, well,

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because counseling and and
therapy cannot bring you

233
00:15:32,470 --> 00:15:35,870
healing.
They will tell you you can't

234
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heal from this, but we can teach
you how to cope.

235
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This is why people drink and are
addicted to drugs.

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Because going to say it sounds
like living.

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And kill themselves because
there's no living with it.

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There is no living with it, and
there's no coping with it

239
00:15:56,590 --> 00:16:04,070
either.
It's it is a the destructive

240
00:16:04,070 --> 00:16:07,990
things that happen from abuse
and other things.

241
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Are so pervasive and when you're
only offered coping mechanisms

242
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and medication and those things
don't work, that is why people

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that's why they take their
lives.

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They've lost hope.
And so for me, one of the

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reasons that I feel so strongly
about bearing a witness of Jesus

246
00:16:34,250 --> 00:16:38,930
Christ and his his ability to
heal us is so that.

247
00:16:39,360 --> 00:16:43,720
People have hope so that they're
not looking at what the world

248
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has to offer and going this is
all there is and I cannot live

249
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this way.
I can't so that there there is a

250
00:16:51,320 --> 00:16:57,160
hope for them and yeah, it's.
And there was a whole bunch of

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other things that I went through
that are, you know, we can't get

252
00:17:00,800 --> 00:17:03,520
into everything.
We don't have time for my story,

253
00:17:05,160 --> 00:17:09,480
but I think that's a good.
A good explanation of how I got

254
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here back in 2010 or 11 was
when.

255
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Because I've been, you know,
learning all of these things

256
00:17:16,400 --> 00:17:18,359
forever.
But that was when the Lord

257
00:17:18,400 --> 00:17:22,240
really just told me everything I
have given you is meant to

258
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share.
And so when I started coaching,

259
00:17:26,200 --> 00:17:29,600
but I took a break because I had
five kids that I needed to

260
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homeschool and focus on and.
It just was not the the

261
00:17:34,140 --> 00:17:37,100
important connections were just
not happening when I was trying

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to also be running a business.
So yeah, you know, there's so

263
00:17:41,420 --> 00:17:46,660
much there that that just it
definitely resonates with me.

264
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One is, is that the idea of we
can just teach you to cope with

265
00:17:54,140 --> 00:17:55,740
it.
That seems to be something

266
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that's all throughout, not just,
it's creeped into everything,

267
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right?
So if you go to the doctor, a

268
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lot of times it's just, let's
just alleviate the symptom,

269
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right?
Let's.

270
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Not just going to the root
cause, let's just alleviate the

271
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symptom.
The problem is, is that those

272
00:18:13,450 --> 00:18:17,810
system, those symptoms can then
come back, right?

273
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Because your system, your your,
excuse me, your symptom will

274
00:18:21,250 --> 00:18:24,370
build a tolerance, so to speak,
to whatever therapy you're doing

275
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root.
Causes then.

276
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Then your body, your emotion,
your soul finds another place to

277
00:18:30,930 --> 00:18:34,450
say, hey, I don't have a
problem, this isn't solved and

278
00:18:34,450 --> 00:18:37,890
and this is creeped into to
mental health as well, right?

279
00:18:37,890 --> 00:18:41,450
Because what we see is that and.
And I did a great big long

280
00:18:41,450 --> 00:18:45,890
episode with this with a woman
named Anne Blake Tracy who is

281
00:18:46,370 --> 00:18:50,130
just a bulldog when it comes to
trying to wake people up to the

282
00:18:50,130 --> 00:18:53,530
dangers of psychotropics, right.
And the overprescription of

283
00:18:53,530 --> 00:18:57,490
psychotropics.
And and it's just treating a

284
00:18:57,490 --> 00:19:01,330
symptom and then the other thing
we find is that well OK you

285
00:19:01,330 --> 00:19:03,850
treated that symptom but now
this medication triggers

286
00:19:03,850 --> 00:19:07,130
something else or has these
negative side effects and we

287
00:19:07,130 --> 00:19:11,450
never get to the root cause of
anything and it just it goes

288
00:19:11,690 --> 00:19:16,930
goes by the wayside and I I want
to be careful here not to not to

289
00:19:16,930 --> 00:19:20,090
say that all counselors are this
way I know that they're.

290
00:19:20,330 --> 00:19:24,030
Good.
I I look, I've never admitted

291
00:19:24,030 --> 00:19:30,350
this on on on this podcast, but
I'll I'll admit it here I I

292
00:19:30,350 --> 00:19:34,910
practiced plural marriage once
before and I'm a polygamist

293
00:19:34,910 --> 00:19:38,670
again and that marriage fell
apart and I had a lot of baggage

294
00:19:38,670 --> 00:19:42,030
with that right?
That I just didn't deal with and

295
00:19:42,030 --> 00:19:43,790
I didn't understand it at the
time.

296
00:19:43,790 --> 00:19:46,110
But the Lord kept just prompting
me.

297
00:19:46,110 --> 00:19:47,790
You got to go.
You got to work this out.

298
00:19:48,510 --> 00:19:53,530
You need to talk to somebody.
And so I sought out a counselor

299
00:19:53,530 --> 00:19:57,730
and found a really good one.
But but she even told me she's

300
00:19:57,730 --> 00:19:59,650
like, what I talk to you about
here.

301
00:19:59,690 --> 00:20:05,050
She's like, I don't talk to 99%
of my patients this way.

302
00:20:05,130 --> 00:20:09,690
Because I can't, right?
Because I I legally can't.

303
00:20:09,690 --> 00:20:13,050
But she was big on the atonement
and the gospel and the things

304
00:20:13,050 --> 00:20:16,610
that you talked about.
And so I didn't realize it, but

305
00:20:16,610 --> 00:20:19,150
I was.
That right there is actually why

306
00:20:19,150 --> 00:20:24,110
I haven't sought to become a
licensed counselor or therapist.

307
00:20:24,110 --> 00:20:28,430
Because then you get into the
world where you are legally not

308
00:20:28,430 --> 00:20:32,750
allowed to speak the truth that
people need to hear.

309
00:20:32,950 --> 00:20:36,070
Yeah, yeah.
And and in my case it was just

310
00:20:36,070 --> 00:20:40,390
something of I needed to to
process that baggage and she was

311
00:20:40,390 --> 00:20:44,290
just she was there to help me.
But it was someplace I could go

312
00:20:44,290 --> 00:20:45,890
and be.
Like, yes, I was a practicing

313
00:20:45,890 --> 00:20:47,370
polygamist.
I had a marriage that fell

314
00:20:47,370 --> 00:20:50,170
apart, and I didn't realize it.
It's time.

315
00:20:50,170 --> 00:20:52,890
But the Lord was helping me, you
know, prompting me to work this

316
00:20:52,890 --> 00:20:55,610
stuff out because there was
somebody else he was bringing

317
00:20:55,610 --> 00:20:58,250
into the family.
And I I needed to have my my

318
00:20:58,250 --> 00:21:00,810
baggage squared away, right?
I had to.

319
00:21:01,250 --> 00:21:04,610
And and for a guy like me, that
was humiliating.

320
00:21:05,370 --> 00:21:08,290
I mean, I'll be honest with you.
I was the kind of guy that's

321
00:21:08,290 --> 00:21:11,170
like, you don't feel good.
Eat some steak and lift some

322
00:21:11,170 --> 00:21:15,330
weights, You'll be OK.
And and and so, you know, that's

323
00:21:15,330 --> 00:21:19,570
that's how I dealt with it now.
But I didn't realize how much

324
00:21:19,570 --> 00:21:22,370
there I had to unpack until I
started the process.

325
00:21:23,090 --> 00:21:26,570
And then I remember there was
just one day where she was like,

326
00:21:27,210 --> 00:21:29,570
you know, unless something comes
up, I don't, I don't think you

327
00:21:29,570 --> 00:21:33,410
need to be back here.
She's like you can go and then

328
00:21:33,410 --> 00:21:36,410
like six months later, Tanya
joins the family.

329
00:21:36,570 --> 00:21:40,690
So.
I think sometimes we have

330
00:21:40,690 --> 00:21:42,930
baggage that we don't recognize
that we have.

331
00:21:42,930 --> 00:21:46,290
We think we've dealt with it,
you know, whatever.

332
00:21:46,290 --> 00:21:47,410
But.
But it's there.

333
00:21:48,370 --> 00:21:50,450
Yeah.
And so unless you have somebody

334
00:21:50,450 --> 00:21:54,410
that's willing to bring in the
atonement into these

335
00:21:54,410 --> 00:21:58,050
conversations and bring in,
bring in those gospel

336
00:21:58,050 --> 00:22:00,650
principles, you're never gonna
get to the root cause.

337
00:22:01,010 --> 00:22:04,810
You're just going to continue to
mask symptoms and those symptoms

338
00:22:04,810 --> 00:22:07,970
will get worse and worse.
And just like you said then

339
00:22:07,970 --> 00:22:10,050
there's there's no sense of
hope.

340
00:22:11,050 --> 00:22:14,570
Well, and so there, like you
said, there's good counseling

341
00:22:14,570 --> 00:22:16,770
and not good counseling.
And one of the concerns that

342
00:22:16,770 --> 00:22:21,810
I've had is I've watched is that
a lot of it seems to be, well,

343
00:22:21,810 --> 00:22:25,290
we want to get rid of shame, but
because we're not founded in the

344
00:22:25,290 --> 00:22:29,450
truth and the gospel what we're
trying to, we normalize things

345
00:22:29,890 --> 00:22:36,800
instead of saying, no, it isn't
OK, but it's changeable, right.

346
00:22:36,840 --> 00:22:42,240
It's changeable, healable, you
know and so so that's one of the

347
00:22:42,240 --> 00:22:46,400
differences for me too is I'm,
I'm not seeking to normalize

348
00:22:46,400 --> 00:22:48,760
anything that God says is not a
good idea.

349
00:22:49,080 --> 00:22:57,160
And so there's it really comes.
It gets go back to the

350
00:22:57,160 --> 00:22:59,920
scriptures and find out is is a
big part of it.

351
00:23:00,640 --> 00:23:04,360
But there's also things like
there's the thing that's

352
00:23:04,360 --> 00:23:06,480
interesting is that whole you
can't change.

353
00:23:06,480 --> 00:23:09,120
You have to cope with it.
It's not even true from a

354
00:23:09,120 --> 00:23:13,800
neuroscience standpoint, as I've
learned some more things and I'm

355
00:23:13,800 --> 00:23:16,280
not a neuroscientist and I won't
get the terms right and

356
00:23:16,280 --> 00:23:18,040
everything.
But there are, there are

357
00:23:18,040 --> 00:23:22,520
literally, there are ways that
neuroscience knows that you can

358
00:23:22,520 --> 00:23:26,440
change even the patterns that
have already been set up in your

359
00:23:26,440 --> 00:23:29,910
brain, right.
And so, and to me that goes, I'm

360
00:23:29,910 --> 00:23:33,350
like, well, of course there is.
Because God said we could

361
00:23:33,350 --> 00:23:37,350
change, right?
Right, that's what.

362
00:23:37,430 --> 00:23:41,350
That's what repentance literally
means, is to change.

363
00:23:41,990 --> 00:23:46,510
And so we have, we have a point
of agency by which we can

364
00:23:46,510 --> 00:23:50,790
change, but we do need the power
of God in order to fully change,

365
00:23:51,310 --> 00:23:54,470
and only he.
But there has to be a point of

366
00:23:54,470 --> 00:23:57,310
choice.
And what I don't like about the

367
00:23:57,350 --> 00:23:58,950
you'll never heal, you'll only
cope.

368
00:23:58,950 --> 00:24:01,710
Thing is like, they're
eliminating my choice.

369
00:24:02,190 --> 00:24:06,270
That what they're saying to me
really is somebody else did

370
00:24:06,270 --> 00:24:10,910
something to you and you have to
live with it for the rest of

371
00:24:10,990 --> 00:24:14,630
your life.
That just doesn't make sense to

372
00:24:14,630 --> 00:24:16,230
me.
No and and.

373
00:24:16,750 --> 00:24:20,230
It's the opposite of the the
promise of the atonement, right?

374
00:24:20,310 --> 00:24:23,270
It's it's the opposite of the
promise of Jesus, which is.

375
00:24:24,580 --> 00:24:28,380
I I can heal you but you have
you have to approach me and

376
00:24:28,380 --> 00:24:33,180
sometimes I think we feel so
broken that that we're that

377
00:24:33,180 --> 00:24:37,140
leads to some doubt or some
unbelief of well.

378
00:24:37,540 --> 00:24:46,460
And when we so even even as
Christians sometimes we we we

379
00:24:46,460 --> 00:24:50,700
respect too much the
philosophies of men and the

380
00:24:51,180 --> 00:24:59,050
opinions to the point where we
we only seek to justify and

381
00:24:59,050 --> 00:25:04,450
excuse and understand instead of
seeking changed and healing.

382
00:25:05,730 --> 00:25:10,330
Because we either by the world's
definition everything is OK

383
00:25:10,370 --> 00:25:15,770
right Anything or the world has
told us that we can't change.

384
00:25:15,770 --> 00:25:20,210
So if we believe, if we forget
to bring in, wait a minute,

385
00:25:20,210 --> 00:25:22,490
there is a God.
I have a savior.

386
00:25:22,490 --> 00:25:28,090
That means that I can change.
Then we then we can admit safely

387
00:25:28,410 --> 00:25:31,770
I messed up.
I'm broken.

388
00:25:31,770 --> 00:25:36,210
I've got some screws loose.
I've got some misdirected wires

389
00:25:36,210 --> 00:25:39,330
and cross connections.
But God can help me.

390
00:25:39,530 --> 00:25:44,490
If you think that the only hope
you have is in your excuses, you

391
00:25:44,490 --> 00:25:48,150
will never admit.
You'll never admit to your,

392
00:25:48,190 --> 00:25:51,630
your, your wrongs.
And if you think that the only

393
00:25:51,630 --> 00:25:57,590
way to find love and belonging
is to have an excuse, you will

394
00:25:57,590 --> 00:26:02,270
not admit what's wrong and
you'll ground yourself.

395
00:26:02,270 --> 00:26:04,190
Literally.
It's damning.

396
00:26:04,430 --> 00:26:08,670
That's literally damning to you.
That will stop your progress.

397
00:26:08,670 --> 00:26:10,790
It will stop you in your tracks,
you.

398
00:26:10,790 --> 00:26:14,950
It will anchor you and your sins
and your misgivings and your

399
00:26:14,950 --> 00:26:19,050
wrong thinking.
But it's not because you can't

400
00:26:19,050 --> 00:26:21,130
change, and it's not because you
can't be forgiven.

401
00:26:21,130 --> 00:26:24,370
It's because you won't admit
that something's wrong.

402
00:26:24,610 --> 00:26:29,250
And the New Testament there's a
a place where Jesus tells the

403
00:26:29,250 --> 00:26:34,690
scribes and Pharisees.
If you admit that you're blind,

404
00:26:34,890 --> 00:26:38,410
then you would see.
But you keep that you see,

405
00:26:38,450 --> 00:26:40,810
therefore you keep your
blindness.

406
00:26:41,250 --> 00:26:47,280
And that's the same principle.
If we believe that our our

407
00:26:47,280 --> 00:26:51,400
salvation, our love and
belonging are dependent on our

408
00:26:51,400 --> 00:26:56,080
ability to justify and excuse
ourselves, then we don't admit.

409
00:26:56,080 --> 00:26:59,000
And that means that what we
really, the problem we really

410
00:26:59,000 --> 00:27:03,120
have is that we don't really
believe in Jesus Christ and his

411
00:27:03,120 --> 00:27:07,320
redeeming power.
That's a hard thing to admit as

412
00:27:07,320 --> 00:27:11,770
a as a practicing Christian.
But really, if if you can't

413
00:27:11,770 --> 00:27:14,970
admit that you're wrong and that
you're flawed, first you're

414
00:27:14,970 --> 00:27:18,570
denying that you're in a you're
a fallen being, which we are,

415
00:27:19,570 --> 00:27:21,810
and then you're denying that you
need a savior.

416
00:27:22,130 --> 00:27:26,650
That's what that means.
If my salvation, if my love and

417
00:27:26,650 --> 00:27:30,370
belonging, success and
everything depends on my being a

418
00:27:30,370 --> 00:27:34,610
perfect person, then I'm
actually denying the need for

419
00:27:34,610 --> 00:27:37,950
the atonement.
I'm a savior, but it's really

420
00:27:37,950 --> 00:27:41,190
common today, and part of it is,
I'm sorry.

421
00:27:41,190 --> 00:27:45,870
Part of it is because
traditional therapy is seeking

422
00:27:45,870 --> 00:27:49,870
to help someone be OK with who
they are and what they've done

423
00:27:50,350 --> 00:27:55,950
without God.
And as our society has pushed

424
00:27:55,950 --> 00:28:00,070
God to the side, even as
Christians, you know, if we're

425
00:28:00,070 --> 00:28:04,230
living in this fallen world, and
if we forget that, then we seek

426
00:28:04,230 --> 00:28:06,830
to be normal instead of seeking
to be holy.

427
00:28:07,620 --> 00:28:08,980
Oh, that's so good.
Yeah.

428
00:28:09,500 --> 00:28:10,260
Yeah.
No.

429
00:28:10,260 --> 00:28:14,260
And you, you kind of started to
allude to it a little bit.

430
00:28:14,260 --> 00:28:19,220
But as as we had our first phone
conversation, you had mentioned

431
00:28:19,220 --> 00:28:23,060
that that one of the principles
that really drives your practice

432
00:28:23,060 --> 00:28:25,380
is accountability.
Oh yeah.

433
00:28:25,820 --> 00:28:27,540
Can you dive into that a little
bit?

434
00:28:27,900 --> 00:28:31,990
I mean like.
Yeah, I could see how on the

435
00:28:31,990 --> 00:28:33,670
surface it could be
counterintuitive.

436
00:28:33,670 --> 00:28:37,270
If you've had someone who comes
in who has suffered from abuse,

437
00:28:37,870 --> 00:28:41,350
how accountability is going to
tie, I speak to that from

438
00:28:41,350 --> 00:28:44,750
experience.
So one of the hurdles for me for

439
00:28:44,750 --> 00:28:53,430
healing was I chose to go to the
place where the abuse occurred

440
00:28:55,070 --> 00:29:01,240
and I didn't have to be there.
And even though I didn't have

441
00:29:01,240 --> 00:29:07,960
the gift of the Holy Ghost, as I
opened the gate I felt a

442
00:29:08,040 --> 00:29:11,400
distinct warning.
Do not go in here.

443
00:29:14,000 --> 00:29:18,000
But because this person was
trusted by all the adults around

444
00:29:18,000 --> 00:29:22,280
me, by the authorities around
me, and because this person

445
00:29:22,280 --> 00:29:26,680
always gave me candy, I to this
day hate it when people use

446
00:29:26,680 --> 00:29:28,920
candy as bribes and reports for
kids.

447
00:29:29,780 --> 00:29:37,340
But I brushed aside that warning
and I went in there.

448
00:29:38,140 --> 00:29:41,420
Now, for most of my life, people
said, well, that wasn't your

449
00:29:41,420 --> 00:29:46,060
fault, that wasn't your fault.
But what that really did was

450
00:29:46,060 --> 00:29:51,060
keep me from applying the
forgiveness that I needed,

451
00:29:51,340 --> 00:29:54,900
right?
So even though I was four and

452
00:29:54,900 --> 00:30:00,910
the abuse was not my fault,
going in that gate was my fault.

453
00:30:01,550 --> 00:30:04,910
And that, and that sounds some
people I know, people are going

454
00:30:04,910 --> 00:30:07,230
to scream out, Oh my gosh, you
can't hold a little child

455
00:30:07,230 --> 00:30:09,310
accountable for that.
But you know what it did?

456
00:30:09,310 --> 00:30:11,990
It freed me hold myself
accountable for that.

457
00:30:12,350 --> 00:30:17,630
And instead of turning and
excusing it, saying that was my

458
00:30:17,630 --> 00:30:23,270
fault, I did do that.
I betrayed myself and I and and

459
00:30:23,270 --> 00:30:27,110
to some degree betrayed the Lord
in that moment because I didn't

460
00:30:27,110 --> 00:30:34,320
heed him.
And then I could say, but

461
00:30:34,320 --> 00:30:41,360
through the atonement of Jesus
Christ and the love of God, I am

462
00:30:41,360 --> 00:30:46,200
forgiven, and then I'm free.
And you know how empowering that

463
00:30:46,200 --> 00:30:49,160
is?
Because on top of that it gave

464
00:30:49,160 --> 00:30:53,280
me the power later in my life
when there were authorities in

465
00:30:53,280 --> 00:30:57,000
my life telling me that I needed
to do something then God was

466
00:30:57,000 --> 00:31:01,920
giving me that exact same do not
go in there warning.

467
00:31:02,440 --> 00:31:06,440
Then I had the power to say I
don't have to do this.

468
00:31:08,040 --> 00:31:12,000
I I I know what happens when I
don't listen to this warning

469
00:31:12,000 --> 00:31:16,080
voice and and that gave me
safety.

470
00:31:16,080 --> 00:31:22,040
So accountability and that The
thing is there's a there's a

471
00:31:22,040 --> 00:31:27,280
support a foundation that goes
under accountability that makes

472
00:31:27,280 --> 00:31:31,760
it safe for you to be
accountable and that there is a

473
00:31:31,760 --> 00:31:38,320
God, there is a savior.
And because of him I can change

474
00:31:38,880 --> 00:31:43,800
and because I am his daughter.
I have a divine nature and the

475
00:31:43,800 --> 00:31:47,640
sin that I've committed and the
mistakes that I've made are

476
00:31:47,640 --> 00:31:51,800
passing events in my life.
As long as I turn them over to

477
00:31:51,800 --> 00:31:57,540
him, they don't define me
because my divine nature from

478
00:31:57,540 --> 00:32:00,740
God defines me.
Now you put that underneath you

479
00:32:02,140 --> 00:32:06,660
and then you turn and you go,
OK, that means that I can admit

480
00:32:07,220 --> 00:32:10,740
that sometimes I mess up,
because it doesn't mean I am a

481
00:32:10,740 --> 00:32:14,260
mess up.
And I could admit that I have

482
00:32:14,260 --> 00:32:17,180
done bad things and even had bad
intentions.

483
00:32:17,180 --> 00:32:20,540
That I did something based on
fear instead of love.

484
00:32:22,420 --> 00:32:28,050
That I I misapplied.
I maybe I had good intentions

485
00:32:28,050 --> 00:32:30,850
but applied them poorly or.
Or what?

486
00:32:30,850 --> 00:32:34,570
Whatever it is, I I can admit
that I did these wrong things,

487
00:32:34,570 --> 00:32:38,770
you know, because because they
don't define me.

488
00:32:39,730 --> 00:32:42,250
I'm a daughter of God, and that
defines me.

489
00:32:42,810 --> 00:32:47,290
And all the rest is just things
that I either can't.

490
00:32:47,330 --> 00:32:50,610
I can choose to hold on to, or I
can choose to let them go

491
00:32:51,350 --> 00:32:57,310
through the power of the Savior.
Yeah, you know, as a guy who

492
00:32:57,310 --> 00:33:01,870
wasn't Mormon to start out with
of any type, I found I was

493
00:33:01,870 --> 00:33:06,830
really only naturally gifted at
two things, football and

494
00:33:06,830 --> 00:33:09,110
drinking my face off like that.
That was it.

495
00:33:09,110 --> 00:33:13,350
Those those were seemed to be my
2 natural talents and the and

496
00:33:13,350 --> 00:33:16,110
the drinking became a coping
mechanism, right?

497
00:33:16,750 --> 00:33:19,070
And A and A and a very unhealthy
1.

498
00:33:20,300 --> 00:33:26,140
And I remember there was a
moment at which I had to look in

499
00:33:26,140 --> 00:33:30,820
the mirror and really say,
you're kind of a dirt bag,

500
00:33:31,020 --> 00:33:33,300
right?
And just own it, right?

501
00:33:33,980 --> 00:33:38,700
Just own it, right?
That's that moment sucked.

502
00:33:38,980 --> 00:33:43,020
I mean sucked where?
Where it's just you and

503
00:33:43,020 --> 00:33:47,020
yourself.
And you realize you know either

504
00:33:47,020 --> 00:33:53,420
through the the painful.
Fruit because of the seeds that

505
00:33:53,420 --> 00:33:56,220
you've sown.
That something's not right.

506
00:33:56,460 --> 00:33:59,820
Or someone tells you that, hey,
you know, maybe pricks your

507
00:33:59,820 --> 00:34:03,060
heart a little bit by talking to
you about some things.

508
00:34:03,540 --> 00:34:06,860
And you have to have that
uncomfortable moment of being

509
00:34:07,500 --> 00:34:09,820
being ruthlessly honest with
yourself.

510
00:34:10,540 --> 00:34:13,260
And it's that Uncle Son thing.
Sorry.

511
00:34:13,260 --> 00:34:17,100
Yeah.
No, no, you're good and but it.

512
00:34:17,449 --> 00:34:19,370
Here, here's the thing I
discovered you're in.

513
00:34:19,370 --> 00:34:22,489
In those moments, you're faced
with two options, right?

514
00:34:22,690 --> 00:34:28,010
You can continue to blame
everybody else or every other

515
00:34:28,050 --> 00:34:31,730
circumstance, right?
Or at least I could for my

516
00:34:31,730 --> 00:34:33,449
drinking.
Or which is.

517
00:34:34,650 --> 00:34:36,929
Bond which is what?
Bondage.

518
00:34:37,330 --> 00:34:39,449
Yeah, which is bondage.
Every fault.

519
00:34:39,449 --> 00:34:41,090
They're in control of you.
Yep.

520
00:34:41,570 --> 00:34:45,449
Or you can just own it.
Now here's the beautiful thing.

521
00:34:45,449 --> 00:34:47,810
And I and I think this is kind
of what you were talking about

522
00:34:47,929 --> 00:34:52,370
when you own that, when you say,
OK, you know what, yeah, I got

523
00:34:52,370 --> 00:34:58,530
dealt a crappy hand in whatever
fashion and I got hurt, right?

524
00:34:59,410 --> 00:35:03,290
And it really doesn't matter
whose fault it is, because I'm

525
00:35:03,290 --> 00:35:06,810
here now, right?
And the only thing that I can

526
00:35:06,810 --> 00:35:13,130
control is how I respond to that
and when you just take back that

527
00:35:13,130 --> 00:35:18,860
bit of ownership.
That little bit of of being able

528
00:35:18,860 --> 00:35:23,420
to to say, you know what, this
is my garbage I have to deal

529
00:35:23,420 --> 00:35:25,300
with.
Well, now all of a sudden you're

530
00:35:25,300 --> 00:35:28,340
empowered and that's a much
different thing than being

531
00:35:28,340 --> 00:35:33,180
beholden to circumstances or
events or people that harms you.

532
00:35:34,460 --> 00:35:37,620
You've taken that power back and
now you can make the appropriate

533
00:35:37,620 --> 00:35:40,300
changes.
One of one of my favorite

534
00:35:40,300 --> 00:35:44,310
scriptures in the New Testament.
Is when Christ is and it's in

535
00:35:44,310 --> 00:35:45,950
John.
I can't remember what chapter,

536
00:35:46,350 --> 00:35:52,910
but he's healing the man at the
pool of Bethesda and Christ asks

537
00:35:53,150 --> 00:35:56,750
a funny question and he tells.
He tells the man.

538
00:35:56,750 --> 00:36:00,070
He says, would thou be whole now
for us?

539
00:36:00,190 --> 00:36:03,190
We think the Savior saying would
you be healed?

540
00:36:03,710 --> 00:36:07,990
Well, the dude sitting by the
pool for the last however many

541
00:36:07,990 --> 00:36:12,390
years, it sounds like he's been
there a while and the man says.

542
00:36:13,240 --> 00:36:15,360
Yes.
But here's what the Lord was

543
00:36:15,360 --> 00:36:19,960
saying that word whole that's
Are you ready to stand up?

544
00:36:20,040 --> 00:36:23,760
Are you ready to have a family.
Are you ready to have a career.

545
00:36:24,000 --> 00:36:29,520
Are you ready to be kind of self
actualized in some ways and what

546
00:36:29,520 --> 00:36:35,040
I find interesting even more
than that the Savior saying I'll

547
00:36:35,040 --> 00:36:37,360
make you whole.
I'll make you self actualized.

548
00:36:37,360 --> 00:36:42,850
I can help you heal the.
The response I find most

549
00:36:42,850 --> 00:36:45,530
interesting isn't from the man
himself, but from what the

550
00:36:45,530 --> 00:36:49,250
Pharisees say.
Because they say, wait, who told

551
00:36:49,250 --> 00:36:51,730
you you were healed, right?
Who?

552
00:36:51,730 --> 00:36:55,690
Who has that authority, right?
Who told you he's healed right?

553
00:36:55,690 --> 00:36:57,770
And.
And in some ways, I think the

554
00:36:57,770 --> 00:37:02,210
Pharisees really can represent a
lot of the structures that are

555
00:37:02,250 --> 00:37:07,010
in our time now, right?
Because I do think that there's

556
00:37:07,010 --> 00:37:10,890
a certain amount of control and
there is a certain amount of.

557
00:37:12,270 --> 00:37:16,310
Gratification both monetarily
and praises of men that these

558
00:37:16,310 --> 00:37:19,550
structures take, right.
Obviously this man's getting

559
00:37:19,550 --> 00:37:21,230
fed.
I'm guessing he's getting fed

560
00:37:21,230 --> 00:37:26,070
from some sort of system that's
in place and now Jesus is

561
00:37:26,070 --> 00:37:30,590
upsetting the applecart and say
become self actualized and do

562
00:37:30,590 --> 00:37:34,950
this your you know begin to be
whole and and I find that that

563
00:37:34,950 --> 00:37:38,670
ties in really interestingly
enough with.

564
00:37:39,540 --> 00:37:43,340
With how it is, we are are
approaching counseling and

565
00:37:43,340 --> 00:37:47,860
healing and those sorts of
things, so yeah.

566
00:37:48,500 --> 00:37:53,540
I I think, I think some of it
like what you said, what it made

567
00:37:53,540 --> 00:37:57,780
me think of as it's one of the
hindrances that people have for

568
00:37:57,780 --> 00:38:03,020
healing is while they don't like
some of the negative effects on

569
00:38:03,020 --> 00:38:08,710
them, they kind of like it as
the excuse, you know, like, oh,

570
00:38:08,710 --> 00:38:14,070
I I can't do that because or
well, This is why I'm that way

571
00:38:14,070 --> 00:38:19,470
because instead of taking the
responsibility of making the

572
00:38:19,470 --> 00:38:22,510
changes that that need to be
made.

573
00:38:23,390 --> 00:38:27,710
And so sorry, I just had someone
coming to talk to me anyway.

574
00:38:27,830 --> 00:38:31,510
So anyway, so yeah, one of the
hindrances that we have to

575
00:38:31,510 --> 00:38:35,110
overcome is that we're willing
to let go of the excuses and

576
00:38:35,110 --> 00:38:38,950
take accountability for it.
But again, if we if we keep

577
00:38:38,950 --> 00:38:42,430
underneath us, that foundation
of God is real.

578
00:38:42,950 --> 00:38:45,230
He loves me.
I'm his child.

579
00:38:45,670 --> 00:38:49,670
Then we can get courage from
that, to take on the

580
00:38:49,670 --> 00:38:53,550
responsibility to stop using the
excuse and to move forward.

581
00:38:53,950 --> 00:38:56,310
Perfect.
Let's let's move along then.

582
00:38:56,310 --> 00:38:58,030
I don't want to keep you.
It sounds like you.

583
00:38:58,030 --> 00:38:59,630
You got stuff to do.
Yeah.

584
00:38:59,910 --> 00:39:01,180
Sorry.
No, you're good.

585
00:39:01,340 --> 00:39:03,300
What are some of the other
principles that drive your

586
00:39:03,300 --> 00:39:08,060
practice?
So to be really simplified, it

587
00:39:08,060 --> 00:39:11,980
would be identity.
You know, I'm a child of God.

588
00:39:12,900 --> 00:39:15,740
God is real and I'm his child.
Accountability.

589
00:39:15,740 --> 00:39:19,860
We just talked about gratitude
and faith and gratitude.

590
00:39:19,860 --> 00:39:24,220
So a lot of people, when they're
in a in a hard situation or

591
00:39:24,220 --> 00:39:27,740
especially trying to overcome
something traumatic, they've

592
00:39:27,740 --> 00:39:31,770
kind of lost.
They don't have faith in God, as

593
00:39:31,770 --> 00:39:35,450
their protector, as their
provider, you know, whatever.

594
00:39:35,770 --> 00:39:41,410
And gratitude builds up our our
evidence for faith.

595
00:39:42,130 --> 00:39:45,930
And so using gratitude is a
really great, it's a really

596
00:39:45,930 --> 00:39:52,130
great way to go from.
I don't know if I can trust God

597
00:39:52,370 --> 00:39:55,170
right to.
Well, I know I can trust God,

598
00:39:55,170 --> 00:39:57,450
because here's what he's already
doing for me.

599
00:39:58,210 --> 00:40:00,150
Gotcha.
Got you.

600
00:40:00,550 --> 00:40:02,470
OK.
And then tool twice.

601
00:40:02,550 --> 00:40:07,870
I you know, I use questions,
visualizations, writing.

602
00:40:10,470 --> 00:40:12,070
Those are a few.
OK.

603
00:40:12,870 --> 00:40:18,710
Let let me ask some questions
then that, well let me ask this

604
00:40:18,710 --> 00:40:22,190
and then we'll move on to that.
Would you say that, that your

605
00:40:22,190 --> 00:40:26,150
practice is goal oriented?
I mean, when you see a client

606
00:40:26,150 --> 00:40:29,190
come in, do you say, OK what,
what are the goals?

607
00:40:29,510 --> 00:40:32,750
And how do we achieve those?
Because I'm a real practical

608
00:40:32,750 --> 00:40:34,830
guy, right?
I want like step by step and

609
00:40:34,870 --> 00:40:37,070
step.
So there there is from that

610
00:40:37,070 --> 00:40:42,430
standpoint it is goal oriented
because what I would say is OK,

611
00:40:42,430 --> 00:40:47,590
what what is your intention for
this for this visit?

612
00:40:47,630 --> 00:40:51,350
What is it you're looking to
identify?

613
00:40:51,350 --> 00:40:53,750
What is it you're looking to
achieve here?

614
00:40:54,670 --> 00:40:57,630
What is it you want ultimately?
OK.

615
00:40:58,000 --> 00:41:02,440
All right, cool.
And let me ask you this now.

616
00:41:02,440 --> 00:41:05,480
Now we're going to get into your
practice.

617
00:41:05,480 --> 00:41:08,760
Specifically, do you have a
certain age group that you

618
00:41:08,760 --> 00:41:12,400
tailor to or is it across the
board?

619
00:41:12,400 --> 00:41:19,080
I I have done work with teens.
I also do a lot of work with

620
00:41:19,160 --> 00:41:23,600
moms.
I have worked with people that

621
00:41:23,600 --> 00:41:27,910
are older.
My I would say that I will work

622
00:41:27,910 --> 00:41:34,910
with anyone who's ready to work.
OK, who want who's ready to to

623
00:41:34,910 --> 00:41:37,110
do something different?
What?

624
00:41:37,270 --> 00:41:43,390
When someone comes in, and I
hate to put a litmus test on

625
00:41:43,390 --> 00:41:48,790
anything, but when a person
comes in when, what should?

626
00:41:48,830 --> 00:41:50,270
What should?
Well, let me phrase it like

627
00:41:50,270 --> 00:41:53,310
this.
What kind of things should be

628
00:41:53,310 --> 00:41:55,230
exhibited in a person who's
ready?

629
00:41:55,560 --> 00:41:59,640
To make the appropriate changes.
Is it just the act of being

630
00:41:59,640 --> 00:42:02,640
there?
You think that's the first step,

631
00:42:02,640 --> 00:42:04,480
so the first step is to reach
out.

632
00:42:05,800 --> 00:42:10,040
Someone should be willing to
admit there and be trying to

633
00:42:10,040 --> 00:42:13,960
figure out what their part is so
that that we can move in a

634
00:42:13,960 --> 00:42:17,960
productive direction.
And but so much should be

635
00:42:17,960 --> 00:42:21,680
willing to ready to work in a
productive direction by looking

636
00:42:22,260 --> 00:42:25,580
for what they can do.
So for instance, if I was

637
00:42:25,580 --> 00:42:30,860
working with a couple and I was
working with them individually,

638
00:42:31,700 --> 00:42:37,540
separately, if the person was
talking to me and all they could

639
00:42:37,540 --> 00:42:41,460
talk about was what their spouse
had done wrong, then I would

640
00:42:41,460 --> 00:42:45,060
stop the conversation and I
would say, well, you're the one

641
00:42:45,060 --> 00:42:46,860
that we're going to be working
on today.

642
00:42:46,860 --> 00:42:49,300
So let's talk about what your
part is in this.

643
00:42:49,960 --> 00:42:53,680
Maybe the situation is not 100%
your responsibility because

644
00:42:53,680 --> 00:42:56,440
there are two of you involved.
But since you are the one that

645
00:42:56,440 --> 00:42:59,480
I'm talking to, we are gonna, we
are gonna stay focused on what

646
00:42:59,480 --> 00:43:01,400
you can do.
Right.

647
00:43:02,160 --> 00:43:04,000
OK, good.
Good deal.

648
00:43:04,480 --> 00:43:08,320
So and that brings me to my next
question and and this is gonna

649
00:43:08,320 --> 00:43:10,640
get these are the Fundy
questions.

650
00:43:10,800 --> 00:43:16,520
So do you work with couples?
I would.

651
00:43:17,280 --> 00:43:20,720
Yeah.
Would you be comfortable working

652
00:43:20,720 --> 00:43:24,200
with, say, like, two Sister
wives?

653
00:43:25,240 --> 00:43:26,360
Sure.
OK.

654
00:43:26,680 --> 00:43:30,200
All right.
And then my my goal would be to

655
00:43:30,560 --> 00:43:35,640
to help everyone function in in
in a marriage in a way that

656
00:43:35,960 --> 00:43:41,000
brought everyone the closest to
each other and to God.

657
00:43:41,480 --> 00:43:44,400
Right, right.
And and I I won't get into

658
00:43:44,400 --> 00:43:46,480
specifics here because I want to
respect.

659
00:43:46,980 --> 00:43:51,340
Respect your privacy but we had
a conversation on on the phone

660
00:43:51,340 --> 00:43:57,220
and and I never plug something
unless I'm damn sold on it right

661
00:43:57,220 --> 00:43:59,700
because I've developed a
relationship of trust with the

662
00:43:59,700 --> 00:44:05,020
listeners.
But but I I feel like after

663
00:44:05,020 --> 00:44:08,420
talking to you I would totally
be down sending someone your

664
00:44:08,420 --> 00:44:12,180
direction because I know who you
are a little bit and and that

665
00:44:12,180 --> 00:44:15,780
that speaks volumes.
But fundamentalists?

666
00:44:16,300 --> 00:44:20,820
You know there's there's unique
dynamics there that that I think

667
00:44:20,820 --> 00:44:23,820
that if you were to even walk
into a traditional counselor and

668
00:44:23,820 --> 00:44:27,820
say hey this is our goal.
We want to have you know I I

669
00:44:27,820 --> 00:44:30,940
want to be a better husband all
the way around or you know if

670
00:44:30,940 --> 00:44:33,860
it's too sister wise we want to
learn how to build a a good

671
00:44:33,860 --> 00:44:38,660
relationship with each other and
I don't think most counselors

672
00:44:39,420 --> 00:44:41,580
are are down for that.
They don't even know how to

673
00:44:41,580 --> 00:44:50,520
broach that well, I I think in
any setting it really comes down

674
00:44:50,520 --> 00:44:54,840
to consecration.
Every person involved is willing

675
00:44:54,840 --> 00:44:59,760
to put what is right first and
not who is the most important

676
00:44:59,760 --> 00:45:02,680
first, but make God the most
important.

677
00:45:03,080 --> 00:45:08,320
Then everyone can find unity
because everyone, nobody, it's

678
00:45:08,360 --> 00:45:11,720
it's then, you know we talk
about submission and stuff, but

679
00:45:11,720 --> 00:45:15,620
the whole purpose of submission
in any setting is that we're

680
00:45:15,620 --> 00:45:21,700
submitting to the Lord.
So it's it it's not who's the

681
00:45:21,700 --> 00:45:27,140
most important who came first
it's what is the will of God for

682
00:45:27,140 --> 00:45:35,460
me in this situation.
And the we all have to overcome

683
00:45:35,460 --> 00:45:38,380
our insecurities in order to do
that.

684
00:45:38,820 --> 00:45:43,340
And it you know, it means that
some of the problems that I can

685
00:45:43,340 --> 00:45:50,320
see in in in marriages with with
multiple partners is that there

686
00:45:50,400 --> 00:45:53,520
well we see in the scriptures we
see that there can be

687
00:45:53,520 --> 00:45:57,720
competition, there can be
raising of 1 above another.

688
00:45:58,600 --> 00:46:03,640
You know, Jacob was rather
foolish in being openly

689
00:46:03,960 --> 00:46:08,640
preferential towards one wife,
and he created dissension among

690
00:46:08,640 --> 00:46:13,790
his children and his wives
because of his failure to say,

691
00:46:13,790 --> 00:46:18,230
well, no matter how this
happened, you are now both my

692
00:46:18,230 --> 00:46:22,510
wives and you're both.
It is my job to be a

693
00:46:22,510 --> 00:46:26,830
representative of God's love to
you and this situation.

694
00:46:26,830 --> 00:46:31,710
And you know, thank goodness the
Lord was giving the love and the

695
00:46:32,550 --> 00:46:34,710
nothing's necessary.
But you see in there that there

696
00:46:34,710 --> 00:46:39,150
are some, some weaknesses that
you know, could have been

697
00:46:39,550 --> 00:46:44,780
remedied had had Jacob been
looking at his wives from a

698
00:46:44,780 --> 00:46:48,060
heavenly perspective instead of
a worldly one.

699
00:46:48,660 --> 00:46:52,340
I mean, I I can sure understand
why he would feel pretty

700
00:46:52,340 --> 00:46:57,100
betrayed by Laban with the
deception that happened there

701
00:46:57,540 --> 00:47:01,020
and that you.
Yeah, he had naturally chosen

702
00:47:02,020 --> 00:47:05,580
Rachel, but then he also had to
deal with Leah, who he had not

703
00:47:05,580 --> 00:47:07,900
chosen.
But here again, we get into that

704
00:47:07,900 --> 00:47:12,230
same thing where we talk about
we can't control what someone

705
00:47:12,230 --> 00:47:15,310
else does to us.
But if someone lets their dog

706
00:47:15,310 --> 00:47:18,430
come and poop in your yard and
you leave the poop there and you

707
00:47:18,430 --> 00:47:20,870
just whine and complain about
it, whose fault is it at that

708
00:47:20,870 --> 00:47:23,550
point?
And who's suffering the most,

709
00:47:23,630 --> 00:47:25,470
right.
Like, your kids are going to

710
00:47:25,470 --> 00:47:27,630
suffer because the poop's in the
yard.

711
00:47:28,070 --> 00:47:32,310
So you can either take a shovel
and, you know, dig it into a

712
00:47:32,310 --> 00:47:36,310
spot and use it for fertilizer.
You can take the hose and spray

713
00:47:36,310 --> 00:47:38,670
it down and it becomes
fertilizer for your lawn.

714
00:47:38,910 --> 00:47:44,070
But if you leave the poop thing
there, like, you know, somebody

715
00:47:44,070 --> 00:47:47,310
did this thing to me, now I'm
going to let it affect my family

716
00:47:47,810 --> 00:47:51,610
that's, you know, that's on you.
So I think when even when it

717
00:47:51,610 --> 00:47:56,090
comes to multiple people in a
relationship, any setting in

718
00:47:56,090 --> 00:48:00,970
which everyone is willing to
overcome their their pride and

719
00:48:00,970 --> 00:48:06,410
their insecurities and put God
first there can you can find

720
00:48:06,410 --> 00:48:09,250
harmony and unity in that.
Perfect.

721
00:48:09,650 --> 00:48:13,770
Perfect.
So real quick, I just want to

722
00:48:13,770 --> 00:48:17,250
say if if if you're a
fundamentalist.

723
00:48:17,580 --> 00:48:20,140
And and you're struggling in
your family relationships.

724
00:48:20,140 --> 00:48:23,220
Don't be satisfied with that.
Don't be complacent about that.

725
00:48:24,020 --> 00:48:28,860
Take some steps to rectify that.
And if you need help, I again,

726
00:48:28,860 --> 00:48:35,660
I've had a private conversation
here with Liz that I more than

727
00:48:35,660 --> 00:48:38,460
feel comfortable sending
somebody to her.

728
00:48:38,780 --> 00:48:42,660
Seek her out.
Get the help you need, Liz real

729
00:48:42,660 --> 00:48:44,060
quick.
How can people find you?

730
00:48:45,500 --> 00:48:49,810
So I'm I'm rebuilding my web
presence right now, so the best

731
00:48:49,810 --> 00:48:54,250
way to contact me is either
through my e-mail

732
00:48:54,930 --> 00:49:01,450
liz.kingbradley@gmail.com or by
texting my phone which is

733
00:49:01,450 --> 00:49:08,170
912-484-5621 and or messaging me
private.

734
00:49:08,170 --> 00:49:11,170
Messaging me on Facebook is a
good Ave. as well.

735
00:49:11,810 --> 00:49:13,810
Perfect.
And I'll I'll put links in the

736
00:49:13,810 --> 00:49:15,850
show notes to that so folks can
find you.

737
00:49:16,530 --> 00:49:20,050
But but really, as I just want
to say this, as fundamentalists

738
00:49:20,050 --> 00:49:24,010
we should be exhibiting healthy
families, right?

739
00:49:25,210 --> 00:49:29,490
If if what we want right, then
you need to stand as a best

740
00:49:29,490 --> 00:49:32,330
witness you possibly can.
Yeah, absolutely.

741
00:49:32,650 --> 00:49:35,650
And and we we've ceded a a lot
of ground.

742
00:49:35,990 --> 00:49:39,430
And allowing other alternative
lifestyles to be way more

743
00:49:39,430 --> 00:49:43,030
represented than ours and and I
feel like it's time to take that

744
00:49:43,030 --> 00:49:44,990
back.
But in doing that there there is

745
00:49:44,990 --> 00:49:48,630
some responsibility and onus
right If if people just see that

746
00:49:48,630 --> 00:49:52,270
that you know our families
aren't functioning as well as

747
00:49:52,270 --> 00:49:57,750
they should or and and or that
that you know some some shady

748
00:49:57,750 --> 00:50:00,150
stuff is going on.
Get that cleaned up.

749
00:50:00,150 --> 00:50:03,350
Seek Liz out get the help that
that you need.

750
00:50:03,790 --> 00:50:05,550
She'll keep that all
confidential.

751
00:50:06,850 --> 00:50:10,490
She, she guards it like a
bulldog, like any counselor or

752
00:50:10,490 --> 00:50:13,410
anything else.
And so really go, go seek her

753
00:50:13,410 --> 00:50:17,610
out.
So thanks so much, Liz.

754
00:50:17,610 --> 00:50:19,570
Thank you so much.
I appreciate your time.

755
00:50:20,690 --> 00:50:22,570
It was a pleasure to be here.
Thank you for having me.

756
00:50:22,850 --> 00:50:26,050
See ya Can't get enough of the
Mormon Renegade podcast?

757
00:50:26,170 --> 00:50:28,930
Well, good news, we're on
Patreon and there's three

758
00:50:28,930 --> 00:50:30,410
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759
00:50:30,970 --> 00:50:33,250
The first one?
The slightly rowdy package.

760
00:50:33,600 --> 00:50:36,280
Allows you to hear the podcast
without all those pesky

761
00:50:36,280 --> 00:50:39,320
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762
00:50:39,320 --> 00:50:41,640
more in depth experience,
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763
00:50:41,640 --> 00:50:45,720
package where you can hear ad
free audio, ad free video and

764
00:50:45,720 --> 00:50:48,400
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Finally, for those who want to

765
00:50:48,400 --> 00:50:51,760
go full renegade, that package
is available too, where you can

766
00:50:51,760 --> 00:50:55,520
get everything in the previous
two packages, plus an extra show

767
00:50:55,520 --> 00:50:58,880
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breakdown the news of the day

768
00:50:58,880 --> 00:51:00,640
from a very Mormon point of
view.

769
00:51:01,080 --> 00:51:05,080
You will also get exclusive
access to Renegade Chat, and on

770
00:51:05,080 --> 00:51:07,280
there you'll be able to talk to
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771
00:51:07,280 --> 00:51:09,000
whatever topics are on your
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772
00:51:09,360 --> 00:51:12,640
Go to Patreon today and get your
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773
00:51:12,800 --> 00:51:15,400
This episode of the podcast is
brought to you by Deseret

774
00:51:15,400 --> 00:51:18,040
flag.com.
I've said this before and I

775
00:51:18,040 --> 00:51:20,520
really mean it.
Mormonism isn't just a religion,

776
00:51:20,520 --> 00:51:22,760
it's a culture.
As such, it has its own

777
00:51:22,760 --> 00:51:25,520
vernacular and practices, but
also its own symbols.

778
00:51:25,800 --> 00:51:28,280
And those symbols become even
more important and prominent

779
00:51:28,280 --> 00:51:29,920
when you look back into our
history.

780
00:51:30,350 --> 00:51:32,470
Perhaps one of the most
recognizable symbols of

781
00:51:32,470 --> 00:51:36,070
Mormonism is the Deseret flag.
This is the flag that I use as

782
00:51:36,070 --> 00:51:39,710
cover art in this podcast.
This was also used for a good

783
00:51:39,710 --> 00:51:42,030
chunk of time during the pioneer
era in Utah.

784
00:51:42,390 --> 00:51:45,270
Now, today we have people who
want to replace the existing

785
00:51:45,270 --> 00:51:48,270
Utah flag with some other
progressive monstrosity.

786
00:51:48,510 --> 00:51:51,430
Well, I think it's damp past
time that we start pushing back

787
00:51:51,430 --> 00:51:54,250
here a little bit in Utah.
Our friends at Defending Utah

788
00:51:54,250 --> 00:51:56,090
are here to help you with that.
Now.

789
00:51:56,090 --> 00:51:59,610
If you go to deseretflag.com,
you can now purchase your own

790
00:51:59,610 --> 00:52:02,570
Deseret State flag.
It's time here that we start

791
00:52:02,570 --> 00:52:05,770
making ourselves known and join
the resistance against those who

792
00:52:05,770 --> 00:52:07,730
seek to rewrite our state's
history.

793
00:52:08,130 --> 00:52:12,690
Go to deseretflag.com or check
out the link in this episode's

794
00:52:12,690 --> 00:52:14,930
page.
Show notes and get yours today.

795
00:52:45,430 --> 00:52:48,110
You're listening to the Mormon
Renegade podcast.