Oct. 21, 2023
Episode #94 Addendum #2
Addendum On George Q Cannon
--- Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/dave-kirkenbower/support1
00:00:02,280 --> 00:00:07,440
Taylor, what's going on, man?
Hey Dave, thanks so much again
2
00:00:07,440 --> 00:00:12,240
for having me back.
So I've I've just had someone
3
00:00:12,240 --> 00:00:15,840
something else get brought to my
attention that I need to correct
4
00:00:15,840 --> 00:00:18,360
from the the long podcast we did
last week.
5
00:00:19,320 --> 00:00:22,040
So there was one point where I
was talking about George Q
6
00:00:22,040 --> 00:00:25,360
Cannon, and I brought up some
history from the early 1900s
7
00:00:25,800 --> 00:00:29,270
and.
I I accused George Cucannan of
8
00:00:29,270 --> 00:00:32,270
being a hypocrite because he was
publicly teaching that you had
9
00:00:32,270 --> 00:00:34,510
to live plural marriage in this
life where you couldn't receive
10
00:00:34,510 --> 00:00:38,670
exultation while at the same
time actively persecuting and
11
00:00:38,670 --> 00:00:41,950
excommunicating post Second
Manifesto polygamist and and
12
00:00:41,950 --> 00:00:45,870
then secretly making sure his
own sons got sealed to plural
13
00:00:45,870 --> 00:00:48,030
wives right?
And and so.
14
00:00:48,030 --> 00:00:51,510
OK, so now if this were true
would be one thing, but I want
15
00:00:51,630 --> 00:00:55,190
to set the record straight and
make sure everyone knows that.
16
00:00:55,600 --> 00:00:57,600
I was wrong.
I misremembered a very crucial
17
00:00:57,600 --> 00:00:58,600
detail.
So.
18
00:00:58,760 --> 00:01:02,520
So there was a man who did
exactly what I said happened,
19
00:01:02,520 --> 00:01:05,920
but it was not George Buchanan.
His name.
20
00:01:05,920 --> 00:01:10,640
The person who did those things
was Francis Marion Lyman and he
21
00:01:10,640 --> 00:01:15,840
was the president of the Quorum
of the 12 from 19 O 3 to 1916.
22
00:01:16,360 --> 00:01:18,920
And and I didn't write about
this in my essay.
23
00:01:19,430 --> 00:01:21,950
So I hadn't reviewed the
information prior to the podcast
24
00:01:22,110 --> 00:01:25,190
and it was just going off of my
memory alone, like when I talked
25
00:01:25,190 --> 00:01:28,310
about it there in the moment.
And unfortunately I had crossed
26
00:01:28,470 --> 00:01:31,070
some wires in my head.
So cuz I mean I first studied
27
00:01:31,070 --> 00:01:34,030
this history about 10 or 11
years ago when I read two books
28
00:01:34,030 --> 00:01:38,590
by Drew Bryony called Apostles
On Trial was the first one and
29
00:01:38,590 --> 00:01:40,910
Silencing Mormon Polygamy was
the second one.
30
00:01:41,310 --> 00:01:43,510
OK.
And and and so Drew goes through
31
00:01:43,510 --> 00:01:46,510
a ton of evidence from that
period of church history.
32
00:01:46,900 --> 00:01:48,900
And I highly recommend these
books to anyone interested in
33
00:01:48,900 --> 00:01:52,900
learning more about the subject.
So again, I sincerely
34
00:01:52,900 --> 00:01:56,180
misremembered the actions of
Francis M Lyman and got him
35
00:01:56,180 --> 00:01:59,940
confused with George Q Cannon.
And when I mentioned that on the
36
00:01:59,940 --> 00:02:03,420
podcast, it was an honest
mistake, which is kind of
37
00:02:03,420 --> 00:02:06,300
interesting if you think about
it, because it's only been 10-11
38
00:02:06,300 --> 00:02:08,780
years.
Since I'd read that, and Can you
39
00:02:08,780 --> 00:02:11,740
imagine what I might have
thought 20 or 30 or 50 years
40
00:02:11,740 --> 00:02:14,700
later if if I hadn't had friends
bring to my attention that I was
41
00:02:14,700 --> 00:02:16,940
wrong on that?
And then I went back and checked
42
00:02:16,940 --> 00:02:17,940
the sources.
Sure enough.
43
00:02:18,300 --> 00:02:24,100
So in fact, since it's possible
that, like, people could stumble
44
00:02:24,100 --> 00:02:27,020
across that episode maybe like
next year or something down the
45
00:02:27,020 --> 00:02:30,700
road and might not notice or
listen to this correction, would
46
00:02:30,700 --> 00:02:34,620
you, Dave, be willing to edit
the original podcast to take
47
00:02:34,620 --> 00:02:37,360
just those comments out?
Yeah, yeah.
48
00:02:37,360 --> 00:02:39,280
And then just leave the
addendums up, right?
49
00:02:39,680 --> 00:02:40,280
Exactly.
Yeah.
50
00:02:40,280 --> 00:02:41,680
So it's so yeah, because
perfect.
51
00:02:41,800 --> 00:02:44,040
I don't want to.
I'm not trying to memory hole
52
00:02:44,040 --> 00:02:46,480
this mistake or anything like
this.
53
00:02:46,640 --> 00:02:50,600
This public correction will be
eternal proof of my fallibility.
54
00:02:52,600 --> 00:02:55,280
But in the interest of of truth,
I don't want to leave that.
55
00:02:55,480 --> 00:02:56,160
What?
What?
56
00:02:56,160 --> 00:02:58,760
Since I now know that that was
false information in the
57
00:02:58,760 --> 00:03:00,520
original podcast, I don't want
to leave it there because I
58
00:03:00,520 --> 00:03:04,400
don't want to misinform anyone
or distract from the rest of the
59
00:03:04,400 --> 00:03:07,110
message down the road.
Sure enough, yeah, no, we can do
60
00:03:07,110 --> 00:03:08,470
that.
We can do that.
61
00:03:08,470 --> 00:03:11,430
We'll we'll be able to to
correct that so that it's not
62
00:03:11,430 --> 00:03:14,550
out there hanging out and then
someone doesn't listen to the
63
00:03:14,550 --> 00:03:16,630
addendums.
But we'll leave the addendums up
64
00:03:16,630 --> 00:03:19,270
to just kind of show that hey,
there was a mistake made and
65
00:03:19,270 --> 00:03:21,030
we'll go from there.
Absolutely.
66
00:03:21,030 --> 00:03:23,910
And I'll make sure that maybe
I'll put into those show notes.
67
00:03:23,910 --> 00:03:27,270
I'll edit those show notes to
say see addendums one and two
68
00:03:28,030 --> 00:03:29,950
and that should that should
clear it up.
69
00:03:30,270 --> 00:03:31,150
So.
Right on.
70
00:03:31,670 --> 00:03:35,830
So I I guess just in closing, I
I apologize one last time for
71
00:03:35,830 --> 00:03:39,070
wrongfully accusing George
Cuchanan of crimes he did not
72
00:03:39,070 --> 00:03:41,190
commit.
I shouldn't have done it.
73
00:03:41,270 --> 00:03:44,950
It was an honest mistake and and
since I made that publicly, I
74
00:03:44,950 --> 00:03:47,750
really appreciate you giving me
the chance to fix that mistake
75
00:03:47,750 --> 00:03:51,470
publicly.
And you know, I I still, I still
76
00:03:51,470 --> 00:03:54,190
have some pretty major concerns
about George Cuchanan,
77
00:03:54,550 --> 00:03:57,990
especially in regard to his
positions on eugenics as well as
78
00:03:57,990 --> 00:04:01,310
his role in in getting the 1890
manifesto signed.
79
00:04:01,700 --> 00:04:04,460
Which maybe we can discuss in
greater some other time, in
80
00:04:04,460 --> 00:04:06,020
greater depth some other time.
But.
81
00:04:06,220 --> 00:04:08,420
But for right now, I'm more than
happy to just set the record
82
00:04:08,420 --> 00:04:10,900
straight.
He is not guilty of the crimes
83
00:04:10,900 --> 00:04:14,300
and hypocrisy that Francis M
Lyman did.
84
00:04:14,980 --> 00:04:16,339
Perfect.
I like it.
85
00:04:16,820 --> 00:04:18,260
All right.
Anything else?
86
00:04:18,820 --> 00:04:20,500
No, thank you, Sir.
Awesome.
87
00:04:20,500 --> 00:04:22,220
Appreciate you.
You too.
00:00:02,280 --> 00:00:07,440
Taylor, what's going on, man?
Hey Dave, thanks so much again
2
00:00:07,440 --> 00:00:12,240
for having me back.
So I've I've just had someone
3
00:00:12,240 --> 00:00:15,840
something else get brought to my
attention that I need to correct
4
00:00:15,840 --> 00:00:18,360
from the the long podcast we did
last week.
5
00:00:19,320 --> 00:00:22,040
So there was one point where I
was talking about George Q
6
00:00:22,040 --> 00:00:25,360
Cannon, and I brought up some
history from the early 1900s
7
00:00:25,800 --> 00:00:29,270
and.
I I accused George Cucannan of
8
00:00:29,270 --> 00:00:32,270
being a hypocrite because he was
publicly teaching that you had
9
00:00:32,270 --> 00:00:34,510
to live plural marriage in this
life where you couldn't receive
10
00:00:34,510 --> 00:00:38,670
exultation while at the same
time actively persecuting and
11
00:00:38,670 --> 00:00:41,950
excommunicating post Second
Manifesto polygamist and and
12
00:00:41,950 --> 00:00:45,870
then secretly making sure his
own sons got sealed to plural
13
00:00:45,870 --> 00:00:48,030
wives right?
And and so.
14
00:00:48,030 --> 00:00:51,510
OK, so now if this were true
would be one thing, but I want
15
00:00:51,630 --> 00:00:55,190
to set the record straight and
make sure everyone knows that.
16
00:00:55,600 --> 00:00:57,600
I was wrong.
I misremembered a very crucial
17
00:00:57,600 --> 00:00:58,600
detail.
So.
18
00:00:58,760 --> 00:01:02,520
So there was a man who did
exactly what I said happened,
19
00:01:02,520 --> 00:01:05,920
but it was not George Buchanan.
His name.
20
00:01:05,920 --> 00:01:10,640
The person who did those things
was Francis Marion Lyman and he
21
00:01:10,640 --> 00:01:15,840
was the president of the Quorum
of the 12 from 19 O 3 to 1916.
22
00:01:16,360 --> 00:01:18,920
And and I didn't write about
this in my essay.
23
00:01:19,430 --> 00:01:21,950
So I hadn't reviewed the
information prior to the podcast
24
00:01:22,110 --> 00:01:25,190
and it was just going off of my
memory alone, like when I talked
25
00:01:25,190 --> 00:01:28,310
about it there in the moment.
And unfortunately I had crossed
26
00:01:28,470 --> 00:01:31,070
some wires in my head.
So cuz I mean I first studied
27
00:01:31,070 --> 00:01:34,030
this history about 10 or 11
years ago when I read two books
28
00:01:34,030 --> 00:01:38,590
by Drew Bryony called Apostles
On Trial was the first one and
29
00:01:38,590 --> 00:01:40,910
Silencing Mormon Polygamy was
the second one.
30
00:01:41,310 --> 00:01:43,510
OK.
And and and so Drew goes through
31
00:01:43,510 --> 00:01:46,510
a ton of evidence from that
period of church history.
32
00:01:46,900 --> 00:01:48,900
And I highly recommend these
books to anyone interested in
33
00:01:48,900 --> 00:01:52,900
learning more about the subject.
So again, I sincerely
34
00:01:52,900 --> 00:01:56,180
misremembered the actions of
Francis M Lyman and got him
35
00:01:56,180 --> 00:01:59,940
confused with George Q Cannon.
And when I mentioned that on the
36
00:01:59,940 --> 00:02:03,420
podcast, it was an honest
mistake, which is kind of
37
00:02:03,420 --> 00:02:06,300
interesting if you think about
it, because it's only been 10-11
38
00:02:06,300 --> 00:02:08,780
years.
Since I'd read that, and Can you
39
00:02:08,780 --> 00:02:11,740
imagine what I might have
thought 20 or 30 or 50 years
40
00:02:11,740 --> 00:02:14,700
later if if I hadn't had friends
bring to my attention that I was
41
00:02:14,700 --> 00:02:16,940
wrong on that?
And then I went back and checked
42
00:02:16,940 --> 00:02:17,940
the sources.
Sure enough.
43
00:02:18,300 --> 00:02:24,100
So in fact, since it's possible
that, like, people could stumble
44
00:02:24,100 --> 00:02:27,020
across that episode maybe like
next year or something down the
45
00:02:27,020 --> 00:02:30,700
road and might not notice or
listen to this correction, would
46
00:02:30,700 --> 00:02:34,620
you, Dave, be willing to edit
the original podcast to take
47
00:02:34,620 --> 00:02:37,360
just those comments out?
Yeah, yeah.
48
00:02:37,360 --> 00:02:39,280
And then just leave the
addendums up, right?
49
00:02:39,680 --> 00:02:40,280
Exactly.
Yeah.
50
00:02:40,280 --> 00:02:41,680
So it's so yeah, because
perfect.
51
00:02:41,800 --> 00:02:44,040
I don't want to.
I'm not trying to memory hole
52
00:02:44,040 --> 00:02:46,480
this mistake or anything like
this.
53
00:02:46,640 --> 00:02:50,600
This public correction will be
eternal proof of my fallibility.
54
00:02:52,600 --> 00:02:55,280
But in the interest of of truth,
I don't want to leave that.
55
00:02:55,480 --> 00:02:56,160
What?
What?
56
00:02:56,160 --> 00:02:58,760
Since I now know that that was
false information in the
57
00:02:58,760 --> 00:03:00,520
original podcast, I don't want
to leave it there because I
58
00:03:00,520 --> 00:03:04,400
don't want to misinform anyone
or distract from the rest of the
59
00:03:04,400 --> 00:03:07,110
message down the road.
Sure enough, yeah, no, we can do
60
00:03:07,110 --> 00:03:08,470
that.
We can do that.
61
00:03:08,470 --> 00:03:11,430
We'll we'll be able to to
correct that so that it's not
62
00:03:11,430 --> 00:03:14,550
out there hanging out and then
someone doesn't listen to the
63
00:03:14,550 --> 00:03:16,630
addendums.
But we'll leave the addendums up
64
00:03:16,630 --> 00:03:19,270
to just kind of show that hey,
there was a mistake made and
65
00:03:19,270 --> 00:03:21,030
we'll go from there.
Absolutely.
66
00:03:21,030 --> 00:03:23,910
And I'll make sure that maybe
I'll put into those show notes.
67
00:03:23,910 --> 00:03:27,270
I'll edit those show notes to
say see addendums one and two
68
00:03:28,030 --> 00:03:29,950
and that should that should
clear it up.
69
00:03:30,270 --> 00:03:31,150
So.
Right on.
70
00:03:31,670 --> 00:03:35,830
So I I guess just in closing, I
I apologize one last time for
71
00:03:35,830 --> 00:03:39,070
wrongfully accusing George
Cuchanan of crimes he did not
72
00:03:39,070 --> 00:03:41,190
commit.
I shouldn't have done it.
73
00:03:41,270 --> 00:03:44,950
It was an honest mistake and and
since I made that publicly, I
74
00:03:44,950 --> 00:03:47,750
really appreciate you giving me
the chance to fix that mistake
75
00:03:47,750 --> 00:03:51,470
publicly.
And you know, I I still, I still
76
00:03:51,470 --> 00:03:54,190
have some pretty major concerns
about George Cuchanan,
77
00:03:54,550 --> 00:03:57,990
especially in regard to his
positions on eugenics as well as
78
00:03:57,990 --> 00:04:01,310
his role in in getting the 1890
manifesto signed.
79
00:04:01,700 --> 00:04:04,460
Which maybe we can discuss in
greater some other time, in
80
00:04:04,460 --> 00:04:06,020
greater depth some other time.
But.
81
00:04:06,220 --> 00:04:08,420
But for right now, I'm more than
happy to just set the record
82
00:04:08,420 --> 00:04:10,900
straight.
He is not guilty of the crimes
83
00:04:10,900 --> 00:04:14,300
and hypocrisy that Francis M
Lyman did.
84
00:04:14,980 --> 00:04:16,339
Perfect.
I like it.
85
00:04:16,820 --> 00:04:18,260
All right.
Anything else?
86
00:04:18,820 --> 00:04:20,500
No, thank you, Sir.
Awesome.
87
00:04:20,500 --> 00:04:22,220
Appreciate you.
You too.