Episode #89: Tim Ballard, The LDS Church, & Modern Day Mormon Idolatry W/Justin Francom

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I know it's only Wednesday, but
because of the timeliness of the

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issue, I felt like I needed to
get this one out ASAP.

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Now, don't worry, I'll still be
releasing another episode on

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Saturday as well.
It's just one of those weeks.

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You're going to get 2 episodes
now if you're a Mormon, and

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unless you've been living under
a rock, I'm sure you've heard

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the noise about Tim Ballard and
the dust up he's having with the

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LDS church.
What this seems to be doing is

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dividing people into camps and
factions inside all of

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Mormonism.
Well, today I have Justin Frank

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come on to help.
Not just break down the story,

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but also get down to the root of
the problem here and it all

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comes down to one thing and
that's idolatry.

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Stick around for some analysis
on this situation.

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I don't think you're going to
get anywhere else.

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That's next on this episode of
the Mormon Renegade podcast.

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Look, it's no secret that our
society has become much more

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crude and coarse to become and
raise men and women of virtue

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and characters, a Herculean
task.

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To help with this, I've recently
wrote and published a book.

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Now, back in the 1700s,
Washington had a book called

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Rules of Civility and Decent
Behavior and Company and

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Conversation.
It was a book with 110 rules

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that talked about how to conduct
yourself like a civilized person

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in society, something that
today's society is sorely

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lacking.
What I did is I went back

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through the book and I
reinterpreted his original

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sayings for the 21st century.
So the book is laid out in a way

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in which you see Washington's
original rule.

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Right below that is my
explanation for the 21st

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century, and below that you'll
find two or three examples of

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where to use this in the real
world.

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Now, to go along with this,
there's a workbook that helps

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parents teach these principles
and practices to their kids.

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To find the book, go to
mormonrenegade.com.

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Go to the bottom of the page,
search out the blog post, and

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order your copy today.
I can bear personal testimony

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from personal experience that
this is an invaluable tool to

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help you raise men and women of
virtue and character.

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You're listening to the Mormon
Renegade podcast.

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Justin Back Again.
What is this now?

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Like five or six times, right?
Yeah, it's been quite a bit.

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You're well.
I think we could just always

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have such good conversations
that we can't help.

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And have you noticed that with
the exception?

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Well, I can't even say with the
exception of, but we seem to

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jump on like the really kindly
topics.

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I was thinking about that too,
right?

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Because it was, you know,
defending Joseph Smith.

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And then it was, we rolled like
literally our next one was that

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big shooting in Yovaldi and then
we did that one on Elder Haney

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and and now we're we're on to
this one, right?

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So we, we, I, I think we've
discovered a pattern.

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I don't think we set out for it
to be that way.

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But somehow it's just always the
current stuff that you and I

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seem to talk about.
Yeah, I guess I like to keep my

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ear down on what's kind of going
on in the world, I guess.

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And and I I like to think about
it a lot, right.

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Right.
So yeah, this is going to be on

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current events again, folks.
And I wouldn't feel like I

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wasn't doing a service here or
or or honest if I didn't

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approach what's going on with
Tim Ballard the LDS church blend

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back a little bit and everything
that's involved there.

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Now we're not going to go into
indepth on Ballard much tonight.

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I will say this and and I don't
take any Glee in this.

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I don't take any joy in this
because I I was just telling

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Justin before we started
recording that I'm, I'm kind of

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bummed because I thought Ballard
was the one of the good ones.

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I really did.
I thought, well, that's an

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honest dealer, but there seems
to be some fire here as well as

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smoke.
And we'll we'll dive more into

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that in another episode.
But there's something bigger at

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play here and Justin and I
wanted to talk about that

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because I feel like there's
there's bigger things at work

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here than just Tim Ballard and
maybe a pissing match with the

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LDS Church.
So that's, yeah, that's what

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we're going to talk about.
Absolutely.

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Well, it lines up with some
other, you know, some of the

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other news is over the last,
over the weekend was Donald

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Trump kind of coming out on on
the abortion issue in a way that

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is kind of upsetting.
And so I think all of this,

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these, these, these concerns and
disappointments, all kind of are

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centered around the same kind of
principle, right?

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And that's really what's been on
my mind and heart a lot

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actually, that for the last
probably few months.

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I've been telling you that I'm
actually kind of concerned about

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our country and the people in
this country and and I'm

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concerned about idolatry.
Like there's a very idolatrous

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spirit and it's it's making,
taking good people and and

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twisting their efforts and their
hopes and the desires and their

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ideals and it's leading to, in a
sense.

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The destruction of our nation.
You know Justin, I I really feel

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like and and I'm not trying to
pin you know play the game pin

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the tail on the apocalypse
because that's a losing game

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right.
People people have been saying

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you know all the end is near for
a long time.

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However, I'm going to say this,
I don't think I can remember,

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certainly in my lifetime a more.
I can't even say tumultuous,

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right?
Because I think in some ways 911

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was more tumultuous in the in
the immediate.

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But what I will say is, I don't
think I can ever remember a

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time, and I'm 45 now, so I've
had a little bit of time, but I

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certainly can't remember a time
when I have felt things this

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unstable for folks.
Everything that I feel like

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people thought they could rely
on is now turning liquid, right?

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Everything that was solid is now
becoming liquid and unstable.

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And it it, it does have a feel.
And again, not trying to play

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pin the Tail on the apocalypse,
but it does have kind of that

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third Nephi feel to it, right?
A lot of intrigue, a lot of

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instability both politically and
spiritually.

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And we are living in a time now
where where I think, I I think

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these are some of the times that
some of those ancient prophets

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foresaw.
Right.

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And and as we talk about this I
think it's important that we

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that maybe we frame it in that
mindset of everything that

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people thought they could rely
on.

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That's manmade I should say is
is about to turn to liquid it

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it.
You know, the the Lord's going

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to expose it for what it's it,
what it is, both, you know,

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whether that's church or state.
The other thing.

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And I like the way you put this
when you and I were having our

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phone conversation today.
Idolatry.

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Because sometimes, you know,
look, I think when people think

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about idolatry, they're like
they worship their cars now,

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right?
Because let's face it, for the

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most part, I should say the most
part because I have heard of a

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few crazy things, but for the
most part, people aren't

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worshipping statues of Bail any
longer, right?

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But yeah.
For the most part.

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For the most part, I have heard
some crazy crap.

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But for the most part, right?
So today I think, you know, when

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we think of idolatry, we think
of just people who put worldly

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things in front of God, right?
But that's too simple of an

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answer, right?
And and the reason I said that's

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too simple of an answer is
because the adversary is crafty,

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right?
He's not stupid, you know, We

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all wish he was stupid, but he's
not.

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He's crafty, he's cunning.
And so the kind of aisles that

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we're going to talk about today,
I think are going to rock some

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people a little bit.
And that's good because it's

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going to rock them away, right?
It's going to be that jolt, that

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cold water that, that sometimes
you need just to get you out of

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whatever funk or whatever
scenario you're in.

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So with with that why don't why
don't you, why don't you kind of

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break down this idolatry thing
that we were talking about.

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Yeah, well, so I think when we
like, like you said, you know,

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when I was raised in the church,
you think idolatry, you think of

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people, you know, putting
worldly things first.

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Justin, hold on.
Before we go there, should we

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break down for anyone who hasn't
heard about the whole Ballard

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and Church thing?
Yeah, I think that would be

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good.
I'd like to clarify you know my

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position on that.
So this so it's not

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misunderstood.
I I wouldn't want people putting

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words in my mouth on perfect.
Yeah.

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So let's, let's talk about the
idea about what actually is

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happening right now that's
causing this.

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And then from there, let's roll
into the idolatry stuff.

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OK, sounds good.
So here's my take on this.

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And this is just my take.
You know, you can take it or

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leave it.
But I've actually been looking

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into Tim Ballard for quite a
while, long before the movie

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came out, long before I got
that, You know, the current

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attention that it that it's got.
And I've I had a lot of concerns

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about Tim Ballard.
I I love the cause.

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I love the excitement that that
his organization generates.

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I think it's a very worthwhile
thing to do and I think that

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there's not enough awareness
about these kinds of problems.

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So I appreciate the light that
that he shines on it.

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But for myself, I I have a lot
of concerns with the way he's

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going about that.
Mostly I've been concerned about

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just the honesty.
I don't I I here's the first

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thing I don't think Tim Ballard
is in this for.

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I don't think he's in this to I
I think he believes in the

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cause.
I think he really does care.

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I think he's trying to make a
difference.

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He's trying to do good works.
So first of all I think he is

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very sincere in what he's trying
to accomplish.

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The challenges.
You know we're told that we need

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to have an eye single to the
glory of God.

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And when we don't it opens up
doors for the adversary to kind

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of get in and take this what
could have been a a very good

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work and manipulate it into
something else, distort it and

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that plays upon.
The the work that you're doing

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but it also plays upon the
individuals and there are a lot

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of stories especially in Utah of
the rise and fall of of fill in

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the blank where you had somebody
with a lot of potential to lot

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do a lot of good.
They gain a lot of influence.

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I mean heck I this is even a
little bit before my time and

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now it's really old so even
people and I know what to talk

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about.
But Orrin Hatch, I'd.

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I'd seen some early stuff.
From Senator Orrin Hatch when he

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was first a senator, that looks
actually, I mean inspiring, very

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constitutional, very inspiring.
And you know towards the end of

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his senatorship, I mean he was I
think one of the most infamous

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rhinos in the in the Senate.
And how does that happen?

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How do you go from you know, a
Dewey eyed I'm going to go and

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and and save this country and do
some good work to.

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Absolute, cynical sellout.
I mean, that's a process that

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that happens.
And I think it happens when our

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eyes are not single to the glory
of God, when we have these other

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desires and intents and
motivations behind what we're

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doing.
And that's where I run into some

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concerns with with Tim Ballard
real, real quick.

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I I want to explore that just a
little bit because I've thought

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a lot about this.
I've seen politician after

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politician do this right.
I pin my hopes to a guy right?

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Like okay.
I think this is the guy.

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He's got a background in
farming, right?

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This, this is the guy Jefferson
would have loved to have had in

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in in Congress or in the Senate
or even president.

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An ag guy, right.
But the problem is, and I

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thought about this and and I
lived inside the Beltway for a

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little while, right, for a
couple years.

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So you can't live back there,
especially in that inside the

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Beltway, without running into
guys who do lobbying and that

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sort of thing.
And I asked a guy who I felt

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like was an honest dealer once,
and I won't name names.

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It's not anybody.
Anyone would know, but I'm not

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sure how excited he'd be to have
his.

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Name in your podcast?
Thrown out in a Mormon

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fundamentalist podcast.
So I'm, I'm going to be be vague

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on his name but he was a guy
that was in the know, right?

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He would tell me things that
were happening and then a couple

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00:13:48,660 --> 00:13:51,380
days or maybe a week later you
hear something about it on the

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00:13:51,380 --> 00:13:53,940
news, right?
So he he knew what was going on.

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He was in the know.
And I remember I asked him this.

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I said cuz at the time it was a
guy named Jason Chaffetz who was

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from Utah, that I felt like, OK,
this this could be the you know,

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one of the guys right, that help
us get back on.

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You talked to a good game and
I'm just like, what what happens

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to these guys?
And he says what happens is I

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was like, let me guess, they
just get bought off by special

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00:14:18,710 --> 00:14:20,710
interest.
He's like not upfront, not

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00:14:20,710 --> 00:14:22,950
upfront.
He says what happens is you go

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00:14:22,950 --> 00:14:25,310
in wanting to make a difference,
right?

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And so you go in and you do
these things, but then you start

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00:14:28,870 --> 00:14:31,470
to compromise a little bit
because you say okay, If I vote

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00:14:31,470 --> 00:14:34,670
no on this, then it doesn't look
like I'm doing anything.

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Then I get voted out.
And then I can't guarantee who's

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00:14:37,350 --> 00:14:41,720
going to replace me, right?
So maybe if I compromise a

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00:14:41,720 --> 00:14:44,560
little bit here, right.
And I'm not talking about like

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00:14:44,880 --> 00:14:49,120
political compromise in terms
of, you know, healthy debate.

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00:14:49,200 --> 00:14:51,080
Like, like you were saying
optics sometimes.

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Sometimes there's a bad bill and
it's not going to pass.

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00:14:54,640 --> 00:14:56,800
Maybe.
And but you know, your

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00:14:56,800 --> 00:14:59,240
constituents might not
understand and you know, you're

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00:14:59,240 --> 00:15:02,560
going to get railed by the press
if you look like you're opposing

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00:15:02,560 --> 00:15:05,160
this.
I mean, yeah, let's be honest, I

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00:15:05,160 --> 00:15:09,810
think we all see this, right?
But what happens is, is that

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somehow their, their pride
starts to play into that, right?

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00:15:13,730 --> 00:15:16,410
And I think this is the
adversary that creeps and says

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they can't do this without you,
You need to be here.

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00:15:19,490 --> 00:15:23,450
So if you just sacrifice a
little bit of your integrity

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00:15:23,450 --> 00:15:27,050
here, look at all the good you
can do down the road, you can

256
00:15:27,050 --> 00:15:29,930
get reelected, you can come back
and do these other things.

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00:15:30,290 --> 00:15:32,810
And I think that's how they get
coopted, right.

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00:15:34,050 --> 00:15:37,210
And and I think the same could
go for someone who's involved

259
00:15:37,210 --> 00:15:40,210
in, in this kind of work, right?
I'm sure it's a little things,

260
00:15:40,210 --> 00:15:42,570
right?
Like, well, if I just compromise

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00:15:42,570 --> 00:15:45,290
myself a little bit here, I can
get a little more cash through

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00:15:45,290 --> 00:15:49,410
the door and maybe a little more
publicity, which is good for the

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00:15:49,410 --> 00:15:51,610
cause, right?
I could totally see how it could

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00:15:51,610 --> 00:15:56,410
happen to the best of us if
we're not super careful.

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If we don't have that, I single
to the glory of God.

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00:15:59,670 --> 00:16:02,710
Yeah, we, a lot of us have this
misunderstanding.

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00:16:02,710 --> 00:16:06,030
We are we are all broken.
All broken.

268
00:16:06,030 --> 00:16:08,230
It doesn't matter who we elect,
who we elect.

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00:16:08,230 --> 00:16:10,870
That guy, that guy's broken.
He's human.

270
00:16:11,390 --> 00:16:13,470
He's human.
Yeah, that's just the the state

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00:16:13,470 --> 00:16:15,990
of things.
And the only remedy to that is,

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00:16:16,430 --> 00:16:20,270
is when you have to constantly,
constantly consecrate your

273
00:16:20,270 --> 00:16:21,790
efforts to God.
And even then, you're still

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00:16:21,790 --> 00:16:26,500
going to screw up sometimes.
But when you don't if that, if

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00:16:26,500 --> 00:16:29,180
that motivation, if there's a
chink in that armor, the

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00:16:29,180 --> 00:16:33,460
adversary will exploit it.
And even good people with great

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00:16:33,460 --> 00:16:37,260
intentions and important calling
submissions can end up disaster.

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00:16:37,260 --> 00:16:38,700
I mean, look at the history of
the church.

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00:16:38,700 --> 00:16:42,020
But whatever happened to Sidney
Rigdon, Oliver, Where's Oliver

280
00:16:42,020 --> 00:16:44,980
Calgary these days?
I mean, how did, how did that

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00:16:44,980 --> 00:16:47,140
happen?
How did these amazing

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00:16:47,140 --> 00:16:50,340
individuals that were so vital
in the early days of the

283
00:16:50,340 --> 00:16:51,820
restoration, how did how did
they fall?

284
00:16:53,130 --> 00:16:55,450
It's trap.
It's heartbreaking, but it does

285
00:16:55,450 --> 00:16:57,250
happen.
And I it's not.

286
00:16:57,250 --> 00:16:59,090
Well, I'm better than that.
I wouldn't have done.

287
00:16:59,090 --> 00:17:02,450
No, I would have too.
We all would have, you know this

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00:17:02,530 --> 00:17:06,650
unless unless we constantly keep
our motivations in check.

289
00:17:06,650 --> 00:17:08,650
And that's why I think that
really is the I single to the

290
00:17:08,650 --> 00:17:10,130
glory of God.
That's it.

291
00:17:10,130 --> 00:17:12,530
That's a question of motivation
and intent.

292
00:17:13,530 --> 00:17:17,329
And it is so easy for that to
start slipping a little bit, and

293
00:17:17,329 --> 00:17:19,290
you might even still be doing
the right thing, but doing the

294
00:17:19,290 --> 00:17:22,810
right thing with a corrupted
intent.

295
00:17:23,280 --> 00:17:26,599
Well, that just opens the door
and it's little by little by

296
00:17:26,599 --> 00:17:32,280
little things can get in there.
And so I love the mission of

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00:17:32,280 --> 00:17:35,640
Operation under Grand Railroad
and and what Tim Bauer presented

298
00:17:35,960 --> 00:17:38,680
and I I think that there's a
very good chance that he really

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00:17:38,680 --> 00:17:42,880
was very inspired to pursue this
this mission.

300
00:17:43,640 --> 00:17:46,320
And I I cannot deny that there
are some very good things that

301
00:17:46,320 --> 00:17:48,520
have happened because of because
of the work that that

302
00:17:48,520 --> 00:17:51,560
organization has done.
However.

303
00:17:52,600 --> 00:17:57,720
What What put me a little bit on
edge and the initial concerns

304
00:17:57,720 --> 00:18:00,440
that I've that I've that I've
harbored for quite a long while

305
00:18:01,000 --> 00:18:03,240
has been more on on some of the
overhyping.

306
00:18:05,920 --> 00:18:10,200
It's been more of an issue of of
honesty and it might you know

307
00:18:10,200 --> 00:18:11,880
might not be.
Is it really that big of a deal

308
00:18:11,880 --> 00:18:16,720
to kind of exaggerate one of the
stories And I mean and it sounds

309
00:18:16,720 --> 00:18:19,000
better it's more inspiring.
I mean, there's there's nothing

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00:18:19,000 --> 00:18:21,160
wrong that doesn't hurt anybody
because.

311
00:18:21,890 --> 00:18:24,330
You know, I'm still going to do
this good work.

312
00:18:24,330 --> 00:18:26,890
And then, and if they're more
inspired, they'll be more

313
00:18:26,890 --> 00:18:28,610
inclined to want to help and get
involved.

314
00:18:28,650 --> 00:18:32,370
I mean, who loses?
If I exaggerate something, if I

315
00:18:32,370 --> 00:18:36,570
misrepresent something a little
bit and start telling because

316
00:18:36,570 --> 00:18:38,930
it's maybe it's a better story.
What?

317
00:18:38,930 --> 00:18:41,130
What's wrong with that?
That doesn't hurt anybody.

318
00:18:41,810 --> 00:18:43,290
Well, it it does.
It hurts you.

319
00:18:43,290 --> 00:18:46,490
It hurts you, right?
Absolutely.

320
00:18:47,010 --> 00:18:48,250
So Ballard, who?
Who?

321
00:18:48,250 --> 00:18:50,850
It looks like there could be
some fire there as well as

322
00:18:50,850 --> 00:18:55,770
smoke.
Yeah, so I've I've had concerns.

323
00:18:56,250 --> 00:19:00,130
Now obviously Vice is not our
friend and a lot of people

324
00:19:00,130 --> 00:19:05,850
talking about this are are very
rabid, anti Mormon, anti

325
00:19:05,850 --> 00:19:09,450
conservative, anti
fundamentalist type people are

326
00:19:09,450 --> 00:19:13,730
our worst enemies and you see
them attack somebody like Tim

327
00:19:13,730 --> 00:19:17,930
Ballard and you know the initial
reaction is Oh my gosh, he's

328
00:19:17,930 --> 00:19:21,750
under fire.
He must these must be the bad

329
00:19:21,750 --> 00:19:23,910
guys.
I know these are the bad guys.

330
00:19:23,910 --> 00:19:26,750
So he must be a good guy and I
need to and I need to go and and

331
00:19:26,750 --> 00:19:28,710
help him and and I need to stand
with him and that's what we're

332
00:19:28,710 --> 00:19:30,030
seeing right now.
That's what at least what I'm

333
00:19:30,030 --> 00:19:33,830
seeing right now in Mormon in
Mormondum is there is a a really

334
00:19:33,830 --> 00:19:39,070
big what's the word a bit.
There's a bit of a split and I'm

335
00:19:39,070 --> 00:19:41,990
seeing people that are actually
questioning the church and the

336
00:19:41,990 --> 00:19:45,750
churches, you know, statement on
this.

337
00:19:46,850 --> 00:19:50,650
Even even, like Glenn Beck put
out a tweet and he pulled it

338
00:19:50,650 --> 00:19:54,450
back afterwards.
But Glenn Beck, you know, you

339
00:19:54,450 --> 00:19:55,530
got those.
What is it?

340
00:19:55,530 --> 00:19:57,530
The midnight.
Midnight.

341
00:19:57,530 --> 00:20:03,450
Mormons, yeah, midnight Mormons.
And you know, I think

342
00:20:03,570 --> 00:20:06,330
questioning the church in the,
in the, in the context is is is

343
00:20:06,370 --> 00:20:07,490
very healthy.
Actually.

344
00:20:07,730 --> 00:20:09,650
I think there's nothing wrong
with, I think question

345
00:20:09,650 --> 00:20:13,770
everything, but there's a
tendency to think well.

346
00:20:13,770 --> 00:20:15,890
The enemy of my enemy is my
friend.

347
00:20:16,620 --> 00:20:18,780
And that's not always.
That's not always the case

348
00:20:18,820 --> 00:20:21,220
either.
You know, look back to the like

349
00:20:21,220 --> 00:20:25,060
the 2012 election.
What it what a disastrous

350
00:20:25,180 --> 00:20:27,180
situation that was.
That was so depressing to me.

351
00:20:27,420 --> 00:20:30,580
Am I going to vote for McCain or
am I going to vote for Obama?

352
00:20:33,460 --> 00:20:38,300
You know, it's bad choice one or
bad choice two that they were at

353
00:20:38,300 --> 00:20:41,860
each other's throats.
But just because Obama was was

354
00:20:41,900 --> 00:20:44,500
attacking McCain on on
conservative issues doesn't mean

355
00:20:44,500 --> 00:20:46,630
that McCain is a conservative,
right.

356
00:20:46,790 --> 00:20:48,190
And that's the important thing
to remember.

357
00:20:48,190 --> 00:20:51,470
So there's a tendency to say,
well, Vice is attacking him.

358
00:20:52,070 --> 00:20:54,030
That's one of our enemies.
These other progressive

359
00:20:54,030 --> 00:20:56,430
organizations, they're the ones
that are doing this and

360
00:20:56,430 --> 00:20:58,230
therefore he's got to be the
good guy.

361
00:20:58,270 --> 00:21:00,630
Well, you know, two things can
be wrong at the same time.

362
00:21:00,830 --> 00:21:02,710
Yep.
I was going to say another

363
00:21:02,710 --> 00:21:05,670
parallel that I find interesting
that I thought of after you and

364
00:21:05,670 --> 00:21:11,190
I talked on the phone, was this
could almost be like a Ukraine,

365
00:21:11,190 --> 00:21:14,760
Russia thing.
Right where where we felt we had

366
00:21:14,760 --> 00:21:17,800
to take a side, right.
I mean, poor Ukraine got beat up

367
00:21:17,800 --> 00:21:21,480
and blah blah, blah.
Well then you find out Ukraine's

368
00:21:21,480 --> 00:21:24,960
all sorts of corrupt right.
Now I I would say that that

369
00:21:24,960 --> 00:21:28,520
probably doesn't give Putin the
right to just March in there,

370
00:21:28,800 --> 00:21:31,760
but let's and I want to preface
this by.

371
00:21:32,570 --> 00:21:36,050
Stop looking for the good guy
right there.

372
00:21:36,050 --> 00:21:38,810
There's not going to be one
really in the story.

373
00:21:38,810 --> 00:21:41,250
There is, but he's the ultimate
good guy.

374
00:21:41,250 --> 00:21:42,730
Let's just put it like that,
right?

375
00:21:43,090 --> 00:21:48,210
So stop, Stop trying to look at
this in, in that, in that very

376
00:21:48,210 --> 00:21:51,450
black and white binary kind of
of thing.

377
00:21:51,450 --> 00:21:53,930
Right.
This, this takes some critical

378
00:21:53,930 --> 00:21:57,290
thought.
But the stakes are super high

379
00:21:57,290 --> 00:21:59,370
and that's why we felt like we
had to jump on here.

380
00:22:00,030 --> 00:22:02,910
Yeah.
So just to be clear, so VICE has

381
00:22:02,910 --> 00:22:05,630
put out an article with some
with some pretty serious

382
00:22:05,630 --> 00:22:07,670
allegations.
And in that article was a

383
00:22:07,670 --> 00:22:10,230
statement by the church.
And that's got a lot of people

384
00:22:10,230 --> 00:22:14,310
really kind of confused.
But it's.

385
00:22:14,990 --> 00:22:17,190
I don't think it's really, it's
not, it's not necessarily that

386
00:22:17,190 --> 00:22:22,670
complicated if there's some
legitimacy between these.

387
00:22:22,710 --> 00:22:25,070
And here's the thing I actually
think that we have, We've just

388
00:22:25,070 --> 00:22:26,390
seen the tip of the iceberg
right now.

389
00:22:26,430 --> 00:22:33,620
We don't actually have any idea
what the real where this is

390
00:22:33,620 --> 00:22:36,180
going and the and the stuff
that's going to come out with

391
00:22:36,260 --> 00:22:39,140
with Tim Ballard.
But I think the church does know

392
00:22:39,500 --> 00:22:41,660
and I think VICE knows.
I think they've been preparing

393
00:22:41,660 --> 00:22:46,740
this for a long time and they
are so that they're publishing

394
00:22:46,740 --> 00:22:48,580
an article, they're a news
organization, right?

395
00:22:48,580 --> 00:22:51,500
And they're publishing an
article which has some

396
00:22:51,500 --> 00:22:54,300
implications aimed at the
church.

397
00:22:54,900 --> 00:22:58,190
And it's standard practice among
journalists.

398
00:22:58,190 --> 00:22:59,030
Actually.
I think it's the legal

399
00:22:59,030 --> 00:23:04,190
requirement among journalists is
to offer the people involved in

400
00:23:04,190 --> 00:23:05,590
the story an opportunity to
comment.

401
00:23:06,910 --> 00:23:09,710
I mean and we know that the
media is not really, you know,

402
00:23:09,710 --> 00:23:13,150
unbiased anymore.
But it kind of it's to the idea

403
00:23:13,150 --> 00:23:15,670
is to preserve a certain amount
of unbiased, unbiased in

404
00:23:15,670 --> 00:23:17,590
journalism is here, here's what
we're reporting on the story,

405
00:23:17,590 --> 00:23:19,830
but here's the parties involved
and if they have an opinion on

406
00:23:19,830 --> 00:23:21,990
it, they need to be able to be
heard as well.

407
00:23:22,390 --> 00:23:26,740
So VICE reached out to the
church and said, hey, do you

408
00:23:26,740 --> 00:23:27,980
have any, do you want to
comment?

409
00:23:27,980 --> 00:23:29,540
We're going to be publishing
this information.

410
00:23:29,660 --> 00:23:32,740
Do you want, do you want to
include, do you want us to have

411
00:23:32,740 --> 00:23:33,780
a comment?
That's why I didn't go out

412
00:23:33,780 --> 00:23:35,460
through the church newsroom
because they're not breaking the

413
00:23:35,460 --> 00:23:39,140
story.
VICE is breaking the story and

414
00:23:39,140 --> 00:23:42,620
the church for whatever reason
said actually, I mean cause

415
00:23:42,620 --> 00:23:44,780
normally it's it's yeah no
comment no.

416
00:23:45,500 --> 00:23:48,540
You know when you see these
kinds of things generally

417
00:23:48,540 --> 00:23:51,540
speaking, you know they, you
know you'll see a little thing

418
00:23:51,540 --> 00:23:52,940
at the bottom.
You know, we reached out to so

419
00:23:52,940 --> 00:23:56,440
and so and no comment Okay.
This time though the church

420
00:23:56,440 --> 00:23:58,480
said, yeah, we have something to
say about this.

421
00:23:58,480 --> 00:23:59,800
They they wanted to get in front
of this.

422
00:23:59,800 --> 00:24:03,720
And in reality I would say that
they're trying to retcon this.

423
00:24:05,080 --> 00:24:08,480
And that's a pretty extreme take
on the I mean, the church is

424
00:24:08,480 --> 00:24:11,880
usually.
Explain Retcon, what that is for

425
00:24:11,880 --> 00:24:14,760
people who don't know.
Oh yeah, yeah, basically kind of

426
00:24:14,760 --> 00:24:20,080
rewrite the history.
Try to rewrite the public

427
00:24:20,080 --> 00:24:23,700
narrative on what happened in a,
in a, in a historical type of a

428
00:24:23,700 --> 00:24:26,300
context to to paint a different
narrative.

429
00:24:27,900 --> 00:24:30,780
And we see a lot of that.
You know, we also call it gas

430
00:24:30,780 --> 00:24:32,100
lighting and stuff like that.
But.

431
00:24:34,540 --> 00:24:36,900
And the right con here is the
nature of the church's

432
00:24:36,900 --> 00:24:39,980
relationship with Tim Ballard
because it is, it is a very

433
00:24:40,060 --> 00:24:42,340
legitimate, real, serious
relationship that they've had

434
00:24:42,340 --> 00:24:46,180
for a for a long time.
And then there's even financial

435
00:24:46,580 --> 00:24:48,140
connections to that.
I mean, we've got some of the

436
00:24:48,140 --> 00:24:50,460
people defending Tim Ballard
coming out saying, hey, yeah,

437
00:24:51,370 --> 00:24:55,170
you know, it was Elder Ballard
that actually pointed me in

438
00:24:55,170 --> 00:24:57,450
Tim's direction, suggested I
ought to go help, you know,

439
00:24:57,450 --> 00:25:01,850
help, help out in his cause.
And so certainly this can't be

440
00:25:01,850 --> 00:25:06,050
true because it was an inspired
decision to to go there.

441
00:25:06,050 --> 00:25:07,330
And that's that's the kind of
thing.

442
00:25:07,330 --> 00:25:09,530
And The thing is the church does
not apologize.

443
00:25:09,530 --> 00:25:11,730
We know that church doesn't
apologize.

444
00:25:12,810 --> 00:25:14,370
That's that's their official
stance.

445
00:25:15,580 --> 00:25:18,140
But if they are involved
something wrong what They might

446
00:25:18,140 --> 00:25:19,700
not apologize, but they
certainly want to.

447
00:25:20,060 --> 00:25:23,100
If they can, they'll try to
rewrite the story, rewrite the

448
00:25:23,100 --> 00:25:26,420
narrative.
And so that's what we're seeing

449
00:25:26,420 --> 00:25:28,820
here and that's it means it's a
pretty drastic measure.

450
00:25:28,900 --> 00:25:31,100
That's a pretty drastic measure
for the church to take.

451
00:25:31,100 --> 00:25:34,820
If there was, if this was all
smoke and no fire, the church

452
00:25:34,820 --> 00:25:35,940
probably would have just said
nothing.

453
00:25:35,940 --> 00:25:42,710
No comment at at, at at best,
possibly even defending him and

454
00:25:42,710 --> 00:25:44,670
say, I don't know, there's
nothing inappropriate in this

455
00:25:44,670 --> 00:25:46,870
and this and this is wrong and
we don't agree with what you're

456
00:25:46,870 --> 00:25:49,750
saying here.
The fact that, in a sense the

457
00:25:49,750 --> 00:25:54,190
Church is throwing Tim under the
bus indicates that the church

458
00:25:54,190 --> 00:25:57,990
sees a very, very serious threat
to its reputation.

459
00:25:58,310 --> 00:26:02,390
And its association with Tim
Ballard, and I don't, I don't

460
00:26:02,390 --> 00:26:03,510
believe the church would do
that.

461
00:26:03,510 --> 00:26:05,710
And I mean, there's some stuff I
don't want to get into details,

462
00:26:05,710 --> 00:26:09,990
but maybe maybe some other time.
But there are some very

463
00:26:09,990 --> 00:26:16,790
legitimate concerns here and so
it's not that wild to believe

464
00:26:16,790 --> 00:26:19,230
that the church would would it
would issue a statement on this

465
00:26:19,270 --> 00:26:23,310
and it.
The narrative though you know on

466
00:26:23,310 --> 00:26:26,430
Tim Ballard side is he's trying
to spend this as well.

467
00:26:26,430 --> 00:26:28,750
There's a he he's kind of
implying that there's kind of

468
00:26:28,750 --> 00:26:31,950
secret combinations in the
church and that they there's

469
00:26:31,950 --> 00:26:34,270
something really fishy going on.
There's a liberal movement in

470
00:26:34,270 --> 00:26:35,390
church.
They're trying to stop me

471
00:26:35,390 --> 00:26:40,350
because I'm a hero.
And and you know that's that's

472
00:26:40,350 --> 00:26:47,170
kind of just because the church
is throwing them under the bus

473
00:26:47,170 --> 00:26:51,490
doesn't mean that there's not a
real legitimate issue in in what

474
00:26:51,650 --> 00:26:53,970
what's going on here.
And I think that eventually it

475
00:26:53,970 --> 00:26:56,930
we're going to see this come out
and when it comes out I think

476
00:26:56,930 --> 00:26:58,890
it's not going to be very
pretty.

477
00:26:59,210 --> 00:27:02,530
And yeah, so that's kind of
what's going on right now.

478
00:27:02,530 --> 00:27:06,970
And again, Mormonism is in a bit
of a a tizzy over this because,

479
00:27:07,090 --> 00:27:08,490
you know, Tim Ballard's a Golden
Boy.

480
00:27:10,120 --> 00:27:13,880
Well, and to be fair, Kim might
not be wrong with there are

481
00:27:13,880 --> 00:27:16,040
secret combinations in the
church, right?

482
00:27:16,120 --> 00:27:18,440
Well, exactly.
And that's the hard part because

483
00:27:18,440 --> 00:27:22,240
he can be spinning this in a way
that's absolutely correct.

484
00:27:22,480 --> 00:27:24,880
There is maybe a liberal
movement in the church that's

485
00:27:25,160 --> 00:27:29,200
pushing progressive ideas and
it's trying to stymie the kind

486
00:27:29,200 --> 00:27:33,000
of positive impact that that him
wanted to, at least initially

487
00:27:33,000 --> 00:27:37,190
was was was championing.
But that doesn't mean that he

488
00:27:37,190 --> 00:27:39,270
might not also be guilty of
something here and then there

489
00:27:39,270 --> 00:27:42,790
might not be a serious problem
and that's that's what you got

490
00:27:42,790 --> 00:27:45,510
to watch out for.
It's so easy to to pick a side

491
00:27:45,830 --> 00:27:49,030
and get caught up in in this
kind of tribalism.

492
00:27:49,750 --> 00:27:52,230
Yeah.
Are you Team LDS Church or are

493
00:27:52,230 --> 00:27:53,790
you Team Ballot?
Right.

494
00:27:54,590 --> 00:27:57,710
Our our, our thrust here will be
don't be any of those teams

495
00:27:57,750 --> 00:27:59,630
because you're going to be
sorely disappointed.

496
00:28:02,430 --> 00:28:05,230
So let me see if I got my mind
wrapped around this just right

497
00:28:05,230 --> 00:28:08,530
here.
So you have Tim Ballard who who

498
00:28:08,650 --> 00:28:11,410
again I believe started out with
the best of intentions.

499
00:28:11,810 --> 00:28:15,250
I think that his his
organization or or his, the

500
00:28:15,250 --> 00:28:17,810
organization he used to head.
Oh, you are.

501
00:28:17,930 --> 00:28:23,090
It's done some great work.
There was a relationship between

502
00:28:23,090 --> 00:28:28,650
him and M Russell Ballard.
They were close.

503
00:28:28,650 --> 00:28:33,270
In fact, M Russell Ballard.
Went out of his way to be the

504
00:28:33,270 --> 00:28:36,830
person to set apart Tim's son
before he went on a mission.

505
00:28:37,910 --> 00:28:41,710
So there is a It gave that
blessing, healing blessing to

506
00:28:41,710 --> 00:28:43,350
his daughter when she was in the
hospital.

507
00:28:43,350 --> 00:28:45,710
I mean, yeah, they were.
They were tight.

508
00:28:46,070 --> 00:28:48,630
This wasn't just a passing
meeting.

509
00:28:48,630 --> 00:28:51,430
Maybe this, this was something
that had some personal

510
00:28:51,910 --> 00:28:55,520
implications and that's the
retconning that I was talking

511
00:28:55,520 --> 00:28:57,720
about, right.
And The funny thing is even Tim

512
00:28:57,720 --> 00:28:59,960
Ballard, he know he's coming out
to say no, we had no

513
00:29:00,120 --> 00:29:02,840
relationship, we had no
relationship that, well, they

514
00:29:02,920 --> 00:29:05,360
seem to both agree on that.
And that's the one thing that is

515
00:29:05,360 --> 00:29:07,880
kind of verifiably faults, one
of the one things that is

516
00:29:07,880 --> 00:29:10,200
verifiably faults in the story.
Right.

517
00:29:10,400 --> 00:29:17,040
And and so VICE publishes this
article and and again I I would

518
00:29:17,040 --> 00:29:19,000
agree with you that there's
probably more to come.

519
00:29:19,400 --> 00:29:22,840
The Church sees danger and the
Church just.

520
00:29:23,230 --> 00:29:25,750
Throws Ballard under the bus,
right.

521
00:29:26,070 --> 00:29:30,550
And so you essentially have
these two two things that may

522
00:29:30,550 --> 00:29:34,870
not be on the up and up.
But the problem is, at least

523
00:29:34,870 --> 00:29:38,510
from my perspective, is that
you've now thrown a whole

524
00:29:38,510 --> 00:29:43,110
segment of the church in
complete and utter disarray,

525
00:29:43,910 --> 00:29:46,030
right?
Who who do they go with?

526
00:29:46,790 --> 00:29:50,190
And I think the problem lies
deeper and and this is what

527
00:29:50,190 --> 00:29:52,550
we'll cover too here later on
when we get into it.

528
00:29:53,130 --> 00:29:57,810
Is that you kind of pinned, you
kind of hitch your wagon to the

529
00:29:57,810 --> 00:30:00,730
wrong horse, so to speak, and
we'll dive into that more.

530
00:30:01,730 --> 00:30:03,610
Yeah.
Well, well, that's exactly

531
00:30:03,610 --> 00:30:06,170
right.
Because, I mean one thing to be

532
00:30:06,170 --> 00:30:10,570
clear is some of the critics of
the church right now are saying,

533
00:30:10,570 --> 00:30:12,290
well this has been done
improperly.

534
00:30:12,290 --> 00:30:15,650
This this is supposed to go
through the through the Bishop

535
00:30:15,650 --> 00:30:19,010
and the state president and and
that would be absolutely correct

536
00:30:19,290 --> 00:30:22,750
if they had excommunicated him.
But that's not what's going on

537
00:30:22,750 --> 00:30:25,870
here.
This is a a a retconning.

538
00:30:25,950 --> 00:30:28,390
And you know doctor incumbents
doesn't tell us the correct

539
00:30:28,390 --> 00:30:31,390
procedure to retcon for the
church, to retcon a relationship

540
00:30:31,390 --> 00:30:34,030
with somebody who turns out to
be in a troublesome situation.

541
00:30:34,710 --> 00:30:38,550
I don't think you.
I I could never see Jesus

542
00:30:38,550 --> 00:30:41,110
retconning anybody, right.
I think.

543
00:30:41,110 --> 00:30:45,070
I think the appropriate thing,
you know, if if you really think

544
00:30:45,070 --> 00:30:46,790
there's fire there to say, you
know what?

545
00:30:46,790 --> 00:30:49,390
Yeah, we've been had.
And let's be fair, it's not the

546
00:30:49,390 --> 00:30:50,230
first time.
You have to.

547
00:30:51,850 --> 00:30:53,570
You're right.
But you know that's officially

548
00:30:53,810 --> 00:30:55,290
not the church policy.
They've come out.

549
00:30:55,290 --> 00:30:57,250
They do not.
The church does not apologize,

550
00:30:57,290 --> 00:30:59,330
even if it is wrong and makes
mistakes.

551
00:30:59,330 --> 00:31:01,130
So that's not an option.
That's off the table.

552
00:31:01,410 --> 00:31:03,530
Right.
And this isn't the first time

553
00:31:03,530 --> 00:31:06,690
that the LDS Church maybe got
taken for a ride by one of its

554
00:31:06,690 --> 00:31:09,570
members.
I can think back to certainly it

555
00:31:09,570 --> 00:31:12,370
was before my time as a Mormon,
but I've done my history.

556
00:31:12,570 --> 00:31:14,330
Paul H Dunn.
Right.

557
00:31:14,570 --> 00:31:17,850
The guy who said he was in a
war, he also said he played for,

558
00:31:18,090 --> 00:31:20,570
I think the Cincinnati Reds or
Atlanta Braves.

559
00:31:20,570 --> 00:31:23,650
One of those teams had great
stories.

560
00:31:24,130 --> 00:31:29,930
Come to find out through some
digging, not not what he said he

561
00:31:29,930 --> 00:31:32,610
was right.
And the church just quietly

562
00:31:32,610 --> 00:31:36,610
said, you know, he's now on
emeritus status, sort of a thing

563
00:31:36,610 --> 00:31:40,090
if I'm not mistaken.
And so it's it's not the first

564
00:31:40,090 --> 00:31:42,370
time that we've seen this
exercise done.

565
00:31:42,730 --> 00:31:44,770
Maybe the first time in our
adult lives.

566
00:31:44,970 --> 00:31:47,650
But this is kind of standard
operating procedure.

567
00:31:48,890 --> 00:31:50,770
Absolutely.
And you gotta ask that, well,

568
00:31:50,770 --> 00:31:52,330
what's the harm and lying for
the Lord?

569
00:31:53,170 --> 00:31:55,810
Well, yeah, we talked about, we
talked about it, right.

570
00:31:55,810 --> 00:31:58,730
There's the individual Breaking
that integrity affects the

571
00:31:58,730 --> 00:32:00,690
individual and it opens them up
to other things.

572
00:32:01,090 --> 00:32:04,660
It creates weaknesses.
The second, the second real

573
00:32:04,660 --> 00:32:07,980
issue here though is that I mean
there there is a problem in in

574
00:32:07,980 --> 00:32:10,780
lying for the Lord in this kind
of the context because Tim Bell,

575
00:32:10,780 --> 00:32:13,540
Operation Underground Railroad
is not the only charity out

576
00:32:13,540 --> 00:32:17,220
there that's trying to combat
human trafficking, right?

577
00:32:17,580 --> 00:32:19,780
But how how many can you think
about the top of your head?

578
00:32:20,100 --> 00:32:22,900
How many other child
trafficking, anti child

579
00:32:22,900 --> 00:32:24,700
trafficking charities are you
familiar with?

580
00:32:24,820 --> 00:32:26,460
I can think of four.
Now.

581
00:32:26,460 --> 00:32:29,300
I'd be hard pressed to name all
four, but I remember I just kind

582
00:32:29,300 --> 00:32:33,540
of looked at, and you know what?
And some of them might also be

583
00:32:33,540 --> 00:32:37,220
Tim Ballards, too, because he
didn't just, it wasn't just

584
00:32:37,220 --> 00:32:40,100
Operation Underground Railroad,
you know, he had the slave

585
00:32:40,100 --> 00:32:41,100
Steelers.
He had.

586
00:32:41,820 --> 00:32:43,380
Well, actually, that's not that.
I don't think that one's a

587
00:32:43,380 --> 00:32:44,860
charity.
I believe that's a for profit.

588
00:32:46,540 --> 00:32:48,500
What was that other one he did
with Glenn Beck?

589
00:32:49,420 --> 00:32:51,660
The Nazarene fund, yeah,
Nazarene fund.

590
00:32:52,900 --> 00:32:55,420
But there's other people out
there as well that are that are

591
00:32:55,420 --> 00:32:58,180
fighting this and we don't even
know who they are.

592
00:32:58,800 --> 00:33:02,280
They're just quiet, unassumed.
Nobody knows that they're but

593
00:33:02,280 --> 00:33:04,480
they they're against this.
They're opposed to this as well

594
00:33:04,680 --> 00:33:06,920
and they're they're combating it
in their own way.

595
00:33:08,320 --> 00:33:11,120
But when you start
misrepresenting things to get

596
00:33:11,160 --> 00:33:15,600
attention, you're taking, you're
you're potentially taking from

597
00:33:15,600 --> 00:33:19,720
somebody else you know in in the
free market of of charities

598
00:33:20,040 --> 00:33:21,400
trying to fight something like
this.

599
00:33:22,040 --> 00:33:26,120
If you're misrepresenting your
organization and and what you've

600
00:33:26,120 --> 00:33:28,800
accomplished and how you've
accomplished it, how effective

601
00:33:28,800 --> 00:33:32,040
you are, you know, I mean that's
kind of about that.

602
00:33:32,080 --> 00:33:33,880
I mean that's kind of like a,
you know phone company.

603
00:33:33,880 --> 00:33:36,560
You know, misrepresenting their
phone and saying hey buy our

604
00:33:36,560 --> 00:33:38,040
phone.
It does all this and this and

605
00:33:38,040 --> 00:33:39,560
you buy it and then maybe it
doesn't.

606
00:33:39,680 --> 00:33:41,440
Well, maybe you would have
bought a different phone if

607
00:33:41,440 --> 00:33:46,360
you'd have known that, right.
And in in a charity sense maybe

608
00:33:46,600 --> 00:33:50,400
all the money that operation
underground railroads making if

609
00:33:50,400 --> 00:33:53,820
people were actually look into
it maybe there's actually better

610
00:33:53,820 --> 00:33:56,540
places to put that money that
might be more effective at

611
00:33:56,660 --> 00:33:59,580
accomplishing the solution and
in a free market that's that's

612
00:33:59,580 --> 00:34:00,900
kind of how it's supposed to
work.

613
00:34:03,300 --> 00:34:05,980
Unfortunately though in a free
market also went into democracy

614
00:34:05,980 --> 00:34:10,500
as we see it's very easy to you
know the the best marketer

615
00:34:10,820 --> 00:34:15,780
usually wins the the the
slickest salesman usually ends

616
00:34:15,780 --> 00:34:19,100
up with the with the biggest cut
regardless of the quality of of

617
00:34:19,179 --> 00:34:21,020
of a product or an item or a
service.

618
00:34:22,100 --> 00:34:23,980
And so there are victims as
well.

619
00:34:24,020 --> 00:34:27,780
There really are victims when
you're it's not just on Tim

620
00:34:27,780 --> 00:34:29,460
Ballard by misrepresenting
things.

621
00:34:29,460 --> 00:34:31,139
There's there's there are there
are other potential

622
00:34:31,139 --> 00:34:33,139
ramifications that can be very
damaging.

623
00:34:33,139 --> 00:34:36,500
And and you want a third
ramification is what I would

624
00:34:36,500 --> 00:34:41,340
call black Pilling because and
this is the big one like you

625
00:34:41,340 --> 00:34:46,580
know you mentioned with with,
with done when when you're lying

626
00:34:46,580 --> 00:34:51,900
for the Lord and you're building
all this faith on on on stories

627
00:34:51,900 --> 00:34:55,820
that aren't true and then those
stories come out to not be true

628
00:34:56,580 --> 00:35:01,500
that can be shattering to face.
In fact this is, this is, this

629
00:35:01,500 --> 00:35:03,860
is what precipitated my from the
church.

630
00:35:04,540 --> 00:35:06,300
It was a black Pilling.
It was bad.

631
00:35:06,300 --> 00:35:08,100
It was not.
It was not ideal.

632
00:35:10,340 --> 00:35:16,410
And it was, it was these kind of
realizing that, oh, you know,

633
00:35:16,410 --> 00:35:19,090
some of these things, maybe they
were well intended at the time,

634
00:35:19,090 --> 00:35:21,650
but some of these falsehoods,
some of these misrepresentations

635
00:35:21,650 --> 00:35:23,810
start coming out.
I mean, the most, I think I've

636
00:35:23,810 --> 00:35:24,970
mentioned before.
And one of the most

637
00:35:24,970 --> 00:35:33,090
heartbreaking things to me was
was the Bruce Armanki.

638
00:35:33,730 --> 00:35:37,170
And I I I loved him.
I I don't know.

639
00:35:37,210 --> 00:35:37,850
Here we go.
Right.

640
00:35:37,850 --> 00:35:42,090
I kind of idolized him.
I mean, or not.

641
00:35:42,090 --> 00:35:45,370
Bruce down.
Dominate jokes.

642
00:35:47,290 --> 00:35:50,450
Yeah, dominate jokes.
The one who was a Supreme Court

643
00:35:50,450 --> 00:35:52,610
Justice for Utah?
I think so.

644
00:35:52,650 --> 00:35:57,050
Shoot, I'm suddenly confused.
Been a long day.

645
00:35:57,970 --> 00:36:00,490
No, no, it's good.
You're talking about oaks.

646
00:36:00,490 --> 00:36:03,930
He's the one that's kind of who
did Mormon doctrine.

647
00:36:04,810 --> 00:36:06,650
Bruce R Mcconkey.
Bruce R Mcconkey.

648
00:36:06,650 --> 00:36:07,450
Yeah, it is.
OK.

649
00:36:07,450 --> 00:36:09,010
It was Mcconkey.
Yeah, it was Bruce R Mccon

650
00:36:09,010 --> 00:36:10,490
Mormon doctrine.
I love that book.

651
00:36:11,430 --> 00:36:14,950
I absolutely loved it and that
was very impactful to me in in

652
00:36:15,070 --> 00:36:19,470
the early days of my of my face
and and I'd I'd heard of Adam

653
00:36:19,470 --> 00:36:22,270
God doctrine and which is now
one of the most beautiful

654
00:36:22,270 --> 00:36:25,310
doctrines and and and glorious
tenets of my faith.

655
00:36:25,310 --> 00:36:29,150
But I heard him talk about this
in a in a in a letter or not is

656
00:36:29,150 --> 00:36:33,310
it is it a talk of BYU and and
he only he said it was not true

657
00:36:33,310 --> 00:36:35,550
that Brittman never taught it.
These people are just taking

658
00:36:35,550 --> 00:36:39,650
these things out of context and
I just assumed that was true and

659
00:36:39,650 --> 00:36:42,970
I I believed that.
And when I actually started

660
00:36:42,970 --> 00:36:48,650
reading the Journal of
Discourses and I say wow, it was

661
00:36:48,650 --> 00:36:50,530
beautiful.
I loved it that the doctrine was

662
00:36:50,650 --> 00:36:53,010
was beautiful.
To think that God himself would

663
00:36:53,010 --> 00:36:56,570
condescend to this earth in
order to bring about his

664
00:36:56,610 --> 00:36:59,930
eternal, his his eternal family
that's just I I love that idea

665
00:36:59,930 --> 00:37:02,090
and it it speaks truth to my
soul.

666
00:37:02,090 --> 00:37:05,690
But then it was like, oh, that
was lied to.

667
00:37:06,200 --> 00:37:11,320
I was lied to about this.
And the tendency at the time was

668
00:37:11,520 --> 00:37:14,200
well, maybe it's all lies.
Right.

669
00:37:14,600 --> 00:37:16,240
Maybe.
Maybe none of this is true.

670
00:37:16,280 --> 00:37:18,320
That kind of nihilistic black
billing.

671
00:37:19,400 --> 00:37:23,040
When you when we when we've got
an idol or somebody that we're

672
00:37:23,040 --> 00:37:25,720
idolizing, it might not even be
a legitimate thing.

673
00:37:25,720 --> 00:37:27,560
It might not be somebody saying
themselves up as an idol.

674
00:37:27,560 --> 00:37:31,080
When we start thinking that like
that guy, that guy, he's got it

675
00:37:31,080 --> 00:37:32,240
together.
He knows his stuff.

676
00:37:32,240 --> 00:37:34,600
Every word he says is true.
And you know, and the Lord

677
00:37:34,600 --> 00:37:37,920
blesses every, every, you know,
every step that he takes.

678
00:37:37,920 --> 00:37:40,960
And and then we we find out that
that's not the case.

679
00:37:40,960 --> 00:37:43,080
It can be.
It can be faith shattering.

680
00:37:43,680 --> 00:37:45,400
But why?
Well, because where was my

681
00:37:45,400 --> 00:37:49,120
faith?
Right, right.

682
00:37:49,120 --> 00:37:53,640
Wasn't in in in Jesus Christ.
It wasn't in God the the Eternal

683
00:37:53,640 --> 00:37:57,880
Father.
I mean and and let me say this,

684
00:37:58,600 --> 00:38:02,130
I think.
I think you can still have a

685
00:38:02,130 --> 00:38:06,010
testimony of Jesus Christ and
God the Eternal Father, but yet

686
00:38:06,090 --> 00:38:12,010
put too much stock or too much
faith into a man.

687
00:38:12,890 --> 00:38:17,370
Yeah, and I think that's really
what we're seeing here is kind

688
00:38:17,370 --> 00:38:20,210
of a battle of two idols, to be
honest.

689
00:38:21,330 --> 00:38:24,890
On the one hand, a lot of people
have made an idol out of Tim

690
00:38:24,890 --> 00:38:27,700
Ballard.
On the other hand, a lot of

691
00:38:27,700 --> 00:38:29,220
people have also made an idol
out of the church.

692
00:38:29,220 --> 00:38:30,700
That might seem like a weird
idea.

693
00:38:31,660 --> 00:38:33,740
How do you make an idol out of
the Church of Jesus Christ?

694
00:38:33,820 --> 00:38:37,620
Well, the same way you make an
idol out of anything.

695
00:38:38,500 --> 00:38:43,300
You don't see it for what it is,
and you put your faith where you

696
00:38:43,300 --> 00:38:46,740
have not been asked to place it.
Well and and let's be clear,

697
00:38:46,740 --> 00:38:50,980
right there's there's historical
president from Jesus time where

698
00:38:50,980 --> 00:38:54,420
he's talking about this and it
was very similar.

699
00:38:54,420 --> 00:38:57,600
It was.
The temple in Jerusalem, right?

700
00:38:57,600 --> 00:39:01,520
It was Solomon's temple where he
says this building's going to

701
00:39:01,520 --> 00:39:06,680
come down and people went into
an uproar, into a tizzy.

702
00:39:07,240 --> 00:39:10,080
How can you say that this temple
will come down?

703
00:39:11,960 --> 00:39:17,440
And he's basically calling out
that idol amongst, let's face

704
00:39:17,440 --> 00:39:19,320
it, God's people at the time,
right?

705
00:39:19,600 --> 00:39:24,600
This wouldn't be the first time
that God's people have decided

706
00:39:24,600 --> 00:39:27,670
to.
Put their faith into something

707
00:39:27,750 --> 00:39:30,870
other than just the Lord, you
know.

708
00:39:30,870 --> 00:39:33,110
And that's really fascinating
that you bring that up because

709
00:39:33,150 --> 00:39:36,270
you know in Christ's time you
actually, there were two

710
00:39:36,270 --> 00:39:40,350
factions within the within the
Jewish church, so to speak.

711
00:39:40,350 --> 00:39:42,470
At that time you have the
Pharisees and the Sadgeses.

712
00:39:42,470 --> 00:39:45,430
They didn't knock it along.
This was this was oil and water.

713
00:39:46,070 --> 00:39:48,870
And there's them actually some
pretty fascinating parallels

714
00:39:49,070 --> 00:39:51,790
because when you look at, you
look at the sadgesses, they they

715
00:39:51,790 --> 00:39:57,630
denied the resurrection a.
They were very equivalent of the

716
00:39:57,630 --> 00:40:02,710
kind of liberal elements within
the church that want to just

717
00:40:02,710 --> 00:40:04,950
kind of say, hey, you know, we
just, we can just kind of this

718
00:40:04,950 --> 00:40:07,950
is a buffet and we just take
what we like and what we want

719
00:40:07,950 --> 00:40:10,470
off this table and we can just
reject the stuff that we don't

720
00:40:10,470 --> 00:40:11,230
like.
It was.

721
00:40:11,510 --> 00:40:13,910
Cultural right, It was all.
Cultural.

722
00:40:14,310 --> 00:40:16,590
Yeah.
And some of the stuff was

723
00:40:16,590 --> 00:40:19,350
culturally not popular.
And I think we see that today.

724
00:40:19,350 --> 00:40:22,670
We see that with all kinds of
issues, especially the L, GB, TQ

725
00:40:22,670 --> 00:40:27,540
issues.
Where there's a lot of modern

726
00:40:28,500 --> 00:40:32,380
Mormons that are that they they
they want that.

727
00:40:32,620 --> 00:40:34,900
They want to be able to.
They want that to be an option.

728
00:40:35,020 --> 00:40:38,380
And you know, sure, they're
still members of the church and

729
00:40:38,380 --> 00:40:40,860
they they don't have any
intention necessarily leaving,

730
00:40:41,460 --> 00:40:44,700
but they've got an agenda with
that and they're pushing for

731
00:40:44,700 --> 00:40:47,660
hey, you know let's let's let's
just throw out the commandments

732
00:40:47,660 --> 00:40:50,900
we don't like because I think
this is more inclusive.

733
00:40:51,700 --> 00:40:53,660
That's very much like what the
Sadducees were doing.

734
00:40:54,260 --> 00:40:57,380
Now the Pharisees, though it's
not like when Christ was there,

735
00:40:57,380 --> 00:40:58,740
he did.
He didn't go to the He didn't

736
00:40:58,740 --> 00:41:01,620
say, you know, he didn't really
call out the sad, just he's

737
00:41:01,620 --> 00:41:03,260
nearly as much as he did the
Pharisees.

738
00:41:03,420 --> 00:41:06,580
Who are the Pharisees?
They would have been like the

739
00:41:06,580 --> 00:41:10,100
conservatives, right?
They're the ones preserving.

740
00:41:10,940 --> 00:41:13,700
I say preserving because there
was a lot of things they added

741
00:41:13,700 --> 00:41:16,220
to the law, right?
Yeah, but.

742
00:41:16,220 --> 00:41:20,780
But they were the ones kind of
trying to keep everybody on.

743
00:41:24,050 --> 00:41:26,450
Yeah, they were pretty much the
conservatives, right?

744
00:41:26,810 --> 00:41:29,610
For us, it was Mom.
For us, it's Mom app.

745
00:41:29,690 --> 00:41:32,330
You know America and baseball,
right?

746
00:41:32,730 --> 00:41:37,010
For them, they're rallying cry
would have been Moses, the Torah

747
00:41:37,450 --> 00:41:40,930
and.
And that's what they were big on

748
00:41:40,930 --> 00:41:44,330
salvation through the
commandments and make everybody,

749
00:41:44,330 --> 00:41:48,690
we got to get everybody to obey.
It's so important we get people

750
00:41:48,690 --> 00:41:52,050
to obey that let's invent extra
commandments to.

751
00:41:52,640 --> 00:41:56,040
Keep them from even getting
close to to to violating the

752
00:41:56,040 --> 00:42:01,080
real commandments.
They they're very, very extreme

753
00:42:02,040 --> 00:42:04,280
and unfortunately, you know,
cult liking.

754
00:42:04,280 --> 00:42:07,160
And that's ironically.
Interestingly or interestingly

755
00:42:07,160 --> 00:42:10,680
enough, those are the people
that Christ called out the

756
00:42:10,680 --> 00:42:13,560
hardest.
Because actually, the

757
00:42:13,560 --> 00:42:15,520
interesting thing was those
those are the ones who had the

758
00:42:15,520 --> 00:42:18,760
biggest issue with Christ.
I think the sad just these to

759
00:42:18,760 --> 00:42:20,320
certain degree, it's like, you
know what we're just kind of

760
00:42:20,320 --> 00:42:22,240
cultural Jews and you know we
we've got our stuff.

761
00:42:22,240 --> 00:42:27,560
But the Pharisees were the ones
that were really, really

762
00:42:27,560 --> 00:42:35,240
threatened by the truth because
they they they're the ones who I

763
00:42:35,240 --> 00:42:37,840
guess maybe saw themselves as as
saviors.

764
00:42:38,400 --> 00:42:40,560
They're the saviors of the
people, yeah.

765
00:42:40,560 --> 00:42:43,200
They saw themselves as
preserving the right way.

766
00:42:43,600 --> 00:42:46,400
And they were going to they were
going to intercede for everybody

767
00:42:46,600 --> 00:42:49,800
and and be that that guard to
protect everybody and and and

768
00:42:49,800 --> 00:42:53,920
Christ was threatening their
monopoly on that and and that I

769
00:42:53,920 --> 00:42:57,760
I think we see I can see at
least a lot of parallels today

770
00:42:57,760 --> 00:43:02,720
in politics even but especially
within the church and I know and

771
00:43:02,720 --> 00:43:05,480
I'm not just talking about the
Mormon LDS church either I mean

772
00:43:05,480 --> 00:43:08,520
I'm talking fundamentalism and
everything it's all.

773
00:43:09,500 --> 00:43:10,820
Maybe there's just nothing under
the sun.

774
00:43:10,820 --> 00:43:13,620
I don't know.
No, no, I I think you're right.

775
00:43:13,980 --> 00:43:20,500
I think you're right.
And anytime you set your what,

776
00:43:20,500 --> 00:43:24,260
let's not forget, Joseph Smith
had said one of the reasons

777
00:43:24,260 --> 00:43:27,220
Israel's minds were darkened is
because they refused to go up

778
00:43:27,220 --> 00:43:29,020
and meet the Lord.
They said, you know what, Moses?

779
00:43:29,020 --> 00:43:34,500
You just go do it right.
And sometimes it's awfully easy

780
00:43:34,900 --> 00:43:39,370
to abrogate our responsibilities
to someone more qualified,

781
00:43:39,690 --> 00:43:42,290
right?
Someone to go up and do it.

782
00:43:42,650 --> 00:43:47,890
And the problem with that is, is
that soon you start making idols

783
00:43:48,570 --> 00:43:52,890
of those people.
Just like I believe and and I

784
00:43:52,890 --> 00:43:55,010
love Moses, right?
I I can.

785
00:43:55,690 --> 00:44:00,250
I can identify with his story
about, you know, leaving behind

786
00:44:00,250 --> 00:44:05,450
what you were, taking some
lumps, and then the Lord working

787
00:44:05,450 --> 00:44:07,290
with you and making you into
something different.

788
00:44:07,290 --> 00:44:10,530
I find that story inspiring.
There's certain parallels that I

789
00:44:10,530 --> 00:44:12,090
have.
I'd never compare myself to

790
00:44:12,090 --> 00:44:16,450
Moses, but I could certainly
identify with some of those

791
00:44:16,450 --> 00:44:20,170
things.
But you could argue with as many

792
00:44:20,170 --> 00:44:24,050
times as the Pharisees talked
about Moses in the Law of Moses.

793
00:44:24,650 --> 00:44:27,050
They had idle.
They They turned Moses into an

794
00:44:27,050 --> 00:44:29,010
idol.
They turned the Law into an

795
00:44:29,010 --> 00:44:29,890
idol.
They were.

796
00:44:29,930 --> 00:44:33,050
They're building their golden
calf while Moses is up in the

797
00:44:33,050 --> 00:44:35,910
mountain.
But then you know in Christ time

798
00:44:35,910 --> 00:44:39,110
that, yeah, they they turn Moses
and the and the 10 commandments

799
00:44:39,110 --> 00:44:44,830
into an idol and that's and that
is who Christ called out more

800
00:44:44,830 --> 00:44:47,630
than anything else.
And it's interesting too, you

801
00:44:47,630 --> 00:44:49,870
know if you were in Israel in
that day, which which camp would

802
00:44:49,870 --> 00:44:51,150
you fall on?
Are you sad to see?

803
00:44:51,150 --> 00:44:54,430
Are you fair to see?
Honestly, I mean, look,

804
00:44:54,510 --> 00:44:59,390
honestly, if you were, if, if
I'm being completely honest, I

805
00:44:59,390 --> 00:45:02,390
would love to say, oh, I would
have recognized Jesus for sure.

806
00:45:02,820 --> 00:45:05,540
I, I, I would have been there.
But there's a part of me I could

807
00:45:05,620 --> 00:45:10,060
absolutely see going kind of the
Pharisees way, right?

808
00:45:10,660 --> 00:45:14,380
And I I think sometimes,
especially us as

809
00:45:14,380 --> 00:45:17,060
fundamentalists, we can fall
into that trap, right?

810
00:45:17,340 --> 00:45:23,020
We can certainly turn certain
things into idols and make that

811
00:45:23,620 --> 00:45:27,660
the end all be all of our belief
system.

812
00:45:31,060 --> 00:45:33,300
And so.
When you look at that who who

813
00:45:33,300 --> 00:45:34,980
are the ones that were following
Christ, though?

814
00:45:35,100 --> 00:45:36,900
It's interesting Who?
Who are the ones that Christ

815
00:45:36,900 --> 00:45:39,660
called that that, that that fall
into the end?

816
00:45:39,660 --> 00:45:41,540
Was it That was it The great
Priest?

817
00:45:41,620 --> 00:45:43,460
Was it the I?
Was the weak?

818
00:45:43,700 --> 00:45:45,980
It was the weak everyday guys
everyday.

819
00:45:46,020 --> 00:45:47,780
Guys.
And I think what they had going

820
00:45:47,780 --> 00:45:50,500
for him that the Pharisees and
the sad disease didn't have

821
00:45:50,500 --> 00:45:55,260
going for them, was they were
weak and they knew it, yeah.

822
00:45:55,740 --> 00:45:58,540
They knew they were weak.
I'm just, I'm just some broken

823
00:45:58,540 --> 00:45:59,820
fisherman.
I don't have wealth.

824
00:45:59,820 --> 00:46:04,110
I don't have status.
You know, and some of the people

825
00:46:04,110 --> 00:46:05,910
following Christ, they were the
sinners that, I mean, the

826
00:46:05,910 --> 00:46:07,510
Pharisees criticized Christ over
that.

827
00:46:07,510 --> 00:46:10,750
You're you're having dinner with
tax collectors.

828
00:46:10,910 --> 00:46:15,790
What is wrong with you?
But I, I, I guess the tax

829
00:46:15,790 --> 00:46:16,990
collector said, hey, you know
what?

830
00:46:16,990 --> 00:46:20,150
I'm I've got a really crappy job
here and I'm kind of the broken

831
00:46:20,150 --> 00:46:23,510
individual.
And so, you know, come help.

832
00:46:23,590 --> 00:46:25,710
Come help me.
The people that were looking for

833
00:46:25,710 --> 00:46:28,790
that help, that guidance.
And that's who Christ called.

834
00:46:28,790 --> 00:46:31,070
He didn't call the Pharisees.
He didn't call the Sadducees,

835
00:46:31,840 --> 00:46:33,280
right?
Right.

836
00:46:33,800 --> 00:46:36,080
And I think there's definitely a
lesson there for us to, you

837
00:46:36,080 --> 00:46:40,680
know, as we deal with these
challenges that the world keeps

838
00:46:40,680 --> 00:46:43,320
presenting in these stories and
the things that are happening in

839
00:46:43,320 --> 00:46:47,080
the news and politics with the
church and everything.

840
00:46:47,240 --> 00:46:50,880
Everything is saying pick a
side, pick a side, pick a side.

841
00:46:52,160 --> 00:46:54,800
And if we think that, hey, you
know, I know the answer.

842
00:46:54,840 --> 00:46:57,680
I know, I know I know what side
here is, is in the right.

843
00:46:57,680 --> 00:46:59,950
I know who.
Who we need to follow.

844
00:46:59,950 --> 00:47:02,110
I think that we're kind of
setting ourselves up.

845
00:47:02,870 --> 00:47:06,950
We are in.
And I want to say this too, It's

846
00:47:06,950 --> 00:47:12,430
not fair whether this guy is a
prophet of your church, a guy

847
00:47:12,430 --> 00:47:15,670
who or a guy who you perceive
doing a good work.

848
00:47:16,150 --> 00:47:20,030
It's not fair to those
individuals to make them idols,

849
00:47:20,070 --> 00:47:22,030
either.
No, it's not.

850
00:47:22,230 --> 00:47:26,110
Because because they put their
pants on the same way you and I

851
00:47:26,110 --> 00:47:32,440
do, one leg at a time, right?
And so as you put on unrealistic

852
00:47:32,440 --> 00:47:35,120
expectations, that's not fair to
them, right?

853
00:47:35,120 --> 00:47:37,120
They're still humans.
They're still capable of

854
00:47:37,120 --> 00:47:42,600
screwing up, and we should
extend grace and charity where

855
00:47:42,600 --> 00:47:48,840
we can for those things.
And likewise, you're not, you're

856
00:47:48,840 --> 00:47:52,320
being unfair to yourself as well
when you put somebody in that

857
00:47:52,320 --> 00:47:57,110
position, because now you're
requiring their perfection to

858
00:47:57,110 --> 00:48:01,670
sustain your faith.
And so far, I don't know about

859
00:48:01,670 --> 00:48:04,950
you, Justin, but I haven't met
Jesus yet, right?

860
00:48:04,950 --> 00:48:07,470
I don't think he's out there in
the world, floating around

861
00:48:07,470 --> 00:48:10,310
anywhere.
So if you're expecting

862
00:48:10,310 --> 00:48:14,230
perfection out of your leaders
or out of people in general,

863
00:48:14,550 --> 00:48:19,590
whether you perceive them to be
a good guy or not, you're you're

864
00:48:19,590 --> 00:48:21,550
kind of setting yourself up for
failure.

865
00:48:23,010 --> 00:48:27,250
And and it's okay to, I think to
look at some people and go man,

866
00:48:27,250 --> 00:48:30,810
this guy on this one topic, man,
I think he's really got it

867
00:48:30,810 --> 00:48:33,450
figured out and then maybe try
to emulate some of the good

868
00:48:33,450 --> 00:48:35,290
stuff.
I'm not saying it's not a good

869
00:48:35,290 --> 00:48:40,890
thing to to take examples away
when someone does right.

870
00:48:40,890 --> 00:48:43,330
I think that's a good thing.
I think that's a healthy thing.

871
00:48:43,890 --> 00:48:48,170
But when you set them on a
pedestal, you're just begging to

872
00:48:48,170 --> 00:48:51,060
be hurt when that falls.
Absolutely.

873
00:48:51,140 --> 00:48:52,980
And here's the thing.
I know that Joseph Smith was a

874
00:48:52,980 --> 00:48:56,460
true prophet, but I think, I
think people were trying to make

875
00:48:56,460 --> 00:48:59,180
an idol out of him too.
In fact, I I just remembered

876
00:48:59,420 --> 00:49:01,820
that here's a is a quote from
the Journal discourses.

877
00:49:03,940 --> 00:49:06,220
Mind if I share it real quick?
Sure, please do.

878
00:49:06,580 --> 00:49:08,340
Yeah.
So some members of the Church

879
00:49:08,340 --> 00:49:12,180
say I depend upon you, Brother
Joseph, upon you, Brother

880
00:49:12,180 --> 00:49:15,420
Brigham, upon you Brother Heber,
or upon you, Brother James.

881
00:49:15,820 --> 00:49:18,100
I believe your judgment is
superior to mine, and

882
00:49:18,100 --> 00:49:20,100
consequently I let you judge for
me.

883
00:49:21,000 --> 00:49:23,920
Those men or those women
suspending their own

884
00:49:23,920 --> 00:49:27,040
understanding and pinning their
faith upon another sleeve, will

885
00:49:27,040 --> 00:49:29,760
never be capable of entering
into the celestial glory, to be

886
00:49:29,760 --> 00:49:33,200
crowned as they anticipate they
will never be capable of

887
00:49:33,200 --> 00:49:37,840
becoming gods.
And you know, that was that was

888
00:49:37,840 --> 00:49:40,640
from Brigham Young.
Joseph Smith pretty much said

889
00:49:40,640 --> 00:49:47,680
something very, very similar,
though these men were concerned

890
00:49:47,760 --> 00:49:49,880
about even if they weren't going
to be.

891
00:49:50,240 --> 00:49:52,440
Idolatris themselves, they were
worried about becoming an idol.

892
00:49:52,440 --> 00:49:57,360
They didn't want the people to
follow them because they

893
00:49:57,360 --> 00:49:59,320
idolized that.
They wanted them to follow them

894
00:49:59,320 --> 00:50:03,800
because they're doing the Lord's
work, and the Lord would have

895
00:50:03,800 --> 00:50:06,040
them do that.
But again, it goes back to

896
00:50:06,040 --> 00:50:07,400
motivation.
You wouldn't think it'd be that

897
00:50:07,400 --> 00:50:10,440
big of a deal, right?
If you're going to, if, if

898
00:50:10,440 --> 00:50:13,480
you're following Joseph Smith,
if Joseph Smith's inspired of

899
00:50:13,480 --> 00:50:15,840
God, it probably doesn't matter
why you're following Joseph

900
00:50:15,840 --> 00:50:17,960
Smith, does it?
Well, I think it does.

901
00:50:17,960 --> 00:50:21,160
I mean Cory and Brigham Young.
Celestial glory is on the line.

902
00:50:22,840 --> 00:50:26,520
That's the difference, That's
the difference, that motivation

903
00:50:29,640 --> 00:50:31,160
and it.
And it's like you said, it's not

904
00:50:31,160 --> 00:50:33,320
fair.
It's not fair.

905
00:50:33,480 --> 00:50:36,480
It's not fair to those men to to
put that responsibility on them

906
00:50:36,480 --> 00:50:39,200
when it when the Lord hasn't,
hasn't placed it there.

907
00:50:39,240 --> 00:50:41,480
Lord has not told us to to
follow after men.

908
00:50:41,600 --> 00:50:46,000
He's told us to to to not to
rely upon the arm of flesh.

909
00:50:48,380 --> 00:50:52,180
Which means we need, we need to
be turning to the Lord and not

910
00:50:52,180 --> 00:50:57,060
getting overly caught up to us.
I mean, for me, I I want the

911
00:50:57,060 --> 00:51:01,300
truth more than anything else.
And I believe that's a, I mean,

912
00:51:01,300 --> 00:51:03,500
I hopefully I'm not making an
idol of the truth, but I believe

913
00:51:03,500 --> 00:51:08,740
that Christ is the the
personification of truth and so

914
00:51:08,780 --> 00:51:15,300
it doesn't matter to me who's.
Who's right or who's wrong it it

915
00:51:15,300 --> 00:51:17,580
this is my guy.
I I he's got to be right.

916
00:51:17,580 --> 00:51:23,220
I really want him to be right.
If it's if it's true I want I

917
00:51:23,220 --> 00:51:26,500
want to know that truth.
And you know and as far as who

918
00:51:26,500 --> 00:51:30,700
we're going to follow.
I think we need to be focused

919
00:51:30,700 --> 00:51:35,940
and centered on the Lord and
because otherwise we are going

920
00:51:35,940 --> 00:51:38,300
to be disappointed because like
I said earlier, we are all

921
00:51:38,300 --> 00:51:40,060
broken.
The plan of salvation.

922
00:51:40,370 --> 00:51:43,970
As presented was we're going to
come down here and we're going

923
00:51:43,970 --> 00:51:50,690
to fail and screw up and stumble
and face plant and again and

924
00:51:50,690 --> 00:51:54,610
again and again and again that
was that was the plan we we came

925
00:51:54,610 --> 00:51:58,810
down here to fail so to speak
and that's why a savior was

926
00:51:58,810 --> 00:52:03,090
provided that was that was going
to be able to pull us back out

927
00:52:03,090 --> 00:52:06,490
afterwards but that's that's how
we grow is we we learn we make

928
00:52:06,490 --> 00:52:13,240
mistakes and.
We don't want to make an idol

929
00:52:13,240 --> 00:52:15,240
out of anybody.
Right.

930
00:52:16,080 --> 00:52:18,640
Right.
You, you know, And and that was,

931
00:52:18,960 --> 00:52:21,840
I'll be honest with you, that
was a concern for me when I

932
00:52:21,840 --> 00:52:24,320
first fired up this microphone.
Right.

933
00:52:24,760 --> 00:52:27,960
I know how flat I am.
My very first episode that I

934
00:52:27,960 --> 00:52:31,400
called the Primer, I went out of
my way to say I'm not your

935
00:52:31,400 --> 00:52:33,320
priest.
I'm not your Bishop, I'm not

936
00:52:33,320 --> 00:52:36,640
your state president, your Pope,
your prophet, any of those

937
00:52:36,640 --> 00:52:39,420
things.
You take what I have to say with

938
00:52:39,420 --> 00:52:41,300
a grain of salt.
Do your own research.

939
00:52:41,300 --> 00:52:44,620
If you agree, great.
If I got it wrong, let me know

940
00:52:44,620 --> 00:52:48,620
and I will lead with that.
But don't set me up for that

941
00:52:48,620 --> 00:52:50,580
because you're going to be
disappointed.

942
00:52:50,980 --> 00:52:54,140
I am kind of a meathead.
I love me some football, I love

943
00:52:54,140 --> 00:52:56,580
to lift weights, and I love a
good steak.

944
00:52:56,820 --> 00:53:01,060
So if you're looking to me for
the end all, be all of your

945
00:53:02,060 --> 00:53:05,140
spiritual nourishment, go to
church.

946
00:53:05,740 --> 00:53:07,900
The best thing you could do is
go to church because you pin it

947
00:53:07,900 --> 00:53:09,180
to me, you're going to be
disappointed.

948
00:53:10,220 --> 00:53:16,940
Well, yeah, go to church so you
can get it from the Lord, right?

949
00:53:17,060 --> 00:53:18,620
Yeah.
No, that's an important

950
00:53:18,620 --> 00:53:20,220
connotation too, right?
Is.

951
00:53:20,460 --> 00:53:24,300
I mean, it's kind of the topic
is like who's here's this battle

952
00:53:24,420 --> 00:53:25,780
and everybody's talking about
it.

953
00:53:25,780 --> 00:53:28,980
Who's in the right Was the
church wrong, was was or was Tim

954
00:53:28,980 --> 00:53:31,540
Ballard wrong and and who's the
good guy here?

955
00:53:31,580 --> 00:53:33,860
Who's the savior?
You know, I think it's very

956
00:53:33,860 --> 00:53:36,740
interesting parallel.
In our modern society as a

957
00:53:36,740 --> 00:53:43,900
whole, I think it's fascinating
how prominent superhero movies

958
00:53:43,900 --> 00:53:47,660
have become.
Now, sure, I they're, they're

959
00:53:47,660 --> 00:53:50,380
fun movies and I've always
enjoyed superhero comics and

960
00:53:50,380 --> 00:53:52,020
stuff like that.
It's it's fun stuff.

961
00:53:52,020 --> 00:53:55,460
But I think that there's a a
fascination, a modern

962
00:53:55,500 --> 00:53:59,820
fascination with the idea of the
of the superhero, of the

963
00:53:59,820 --> 00:54:05,800
Superman.
Because people have lost as a as

964
00:54:05,800 --> 00:54:08,040
a, as a country.
I, I, I fear that we have

965
00:54:08,040 --> 00:54:10,600
rejected Christ.
We, I don't believe we're

966
00:54:10,600 --> 00:54:12,320
necessarily a Christian country
anymore.

967
00:54:13,120 --> 00:54:19,120
But something's got to fill that
void and the at least from a

968
00:54:19,320 --> 00:54:22,520
from a mythological perspective
for a lot of Americans, what's

969
00:54:22,520 --> 00:54:24,440
replaced that?
What's filled that void from a

970
00:54:24,440 --> 00:54:27,600
mythological sense is superhero
movies.

971
00:54:30,360 --> 00:54:33,920
Yeah, no, I I agree.
Actual endowed men and women and

972
00:54:33,920 --> 00:54:41,200
that have beyond human powers
that rise up and not make

973
00:54:41,200 --> 00:54:45,880
mistakes and will protect us and
save us from the destructions

974
00:54:45,880 --> 00:54:48,040
and the and the things that are
out there that would get us

975
00:54:48,720 --> 00:54:54,560
right.
And there there's only one

976
00:54:55,320 --> 00:54:57,800
individual you should be putting
that kind of faith into, and

977
00:54:57,800 --> 00:54:59,960
that's Jesus Christ.
Period.

978
00:55:00,290 --> 00:55:02,850
Right.
And then the next thing I would

979
00:55:02,850 --> 00:55:08,210
say is, is you, you have to get
comfortable being able to go to

980
00:55:08,210 --> 00:55:12,290
him and get your answers.
Don't rely on anybody else to

981
00:55:12,290 --> 00:55:14,290
give you the answer.
Don't rely on me.

982
00:55:14,290 --> 00:55:17,770
Don't rely on Justin.
Don't rely on M Russell Ballard.

983
00:55:17,770 --> 00:55:21,010
Don't rely on Tim Ballard.
Go get it yourself.

984
00:55:21,010 --> 00:55:25,090
The Lord will talk to you if if
you're honestly seeking.

985
00:55:25,890 --> 00:55:27,850
So let let me ask you this
Justin.

986
00:55:27,850 --> 00:55:30,930
How is it then that that we can
prevent ourselves?

987
00:55:31,690 --> 00:55:36,850
Because I don't think anyone
ever sets out and says oh you

988
00:55:36,850 --> 00:55:39,690
know what, M Russell Ballard or
or Kim Ballard.

989
00:55:40,050 --> 00:55:43,050
Those guys have it all figured
out.

990
00:55:43,490 --> 00:55:47,090
I can just rely on them.
I don't think anyone starts

991
00:55:47,090 --> 00:55:50,930
there.
I think it's a a process, right?

992
00:55:50,930 --> 00:55:55,550
You you just continue to look
with admiration and pretty soon

993
00:55:55,550 --> 00:55:58,470
you're kind of in in this new
form of idolatry.

994
00:56:01,070 --> 00:56:03,550
So how do we prevent ourselves
from getting there?

995
00:56:05,030 --> 00:56:06,310
You know, that's a great
question.

996
00:56:06,310 --> 00:56:09,150
And also, how do we prevent
ourselves from becoming an idol?

997
00:56:09,270 --> 00:56:11,990
Possibly as well, because we're
all involved in things.

998
00:56:11,990 --> 00:56:15,830
We're all doing things no matter
what it is, even if it's just

999
00:56:15,830 --> 00:56:18,030
even if you're flipping burgers,
you might be the best burger

1000
00:56:18,030 --> 00:56:22,190
flipper you know at McDonald's
and and you could suddenly

1001
00:56:22,190 --> 00:56:24,310
become somebody that other
people start looking up to.

1002
00:56:25,040 --> 00:56:28,960
And so we're at whatever Our
Calling, whatever our station in

1003
00:56:28,960 --> 00:56:33,920
life, wherever we're at right
now we should we we need not

1004
00:56:33,920 --> 00:56:37,800
only be wary of falling into
idolatry, we also I think we

1005
00:56:37,800 --> 00:56:39,920
need to make sure that we want
to make sure that we don't

1006
00:56:39,920 --> 00:56:44,640
become idols ourselves and and
it's not just it's not just

1007
00:56:44,640 --> 00:56:47,200
podcasters and and people in
media that need to watch out for

1008
00:56:47,200 --> 00:56:52,040
that and I I think I know my
thoughts are I think the

1009
00:56:52,040 --> 00:56:56,020
solution to that is.
Is a regular careful analysis of

1010
00:56:56,140 --> 00:57:00,100
of our motivations.
And I see this.

1011
00:57:00,100 --> 00:57:01,540
There's two ways this can
happen.

1012
00:57:01,900 --> 00:57:05,660
One of the one of the best and
ritualistic ways is is when

1013
00:57:05,660 --> 00:57:08,020
we're taking in the sacrament.
It's the perfect opportunity to

1014
00:57:08,020 --> 00:57:11,620
really stop and think about what
you're doing in your life and

1015
00:57:11,620 --> 00:57:14,500
more than asking what you're
doing because you will always

1016
00:57:14,500 --> 00:57:18,660
have something to repent of that
comes there was always going to

1017
00:57:18,660 --> 00:57:20,820
be something you think 00 K
yeah, I want to repent of that.

1018
00:57:20,820 --> 00:57:22,500
I want to repent of that.
I want to repent of that.

1019
00:57:23,120 --> 00:57:25,000
And that's that that I'm not,
I'm not knocking that.

1020
00:57:25,000 --> 00:57:26,760
That's a there's a good
practice.

1021
00:57:27,520 --> 00:57:33,120
But you can dig a little bit
deeper possibly and say what did

1022
00:57:33,120 --> 00:57:35,520
I do good?
What did I do right and what is

1023
00:57:35,520 --> 00:57:38,920
my motivation what what is
inspire me to do?

1024
00:57:38,960 --> 00:57:42,160
Am I doing the right thing for
the right reasons or is there

1025
00:57:42,160 --> 00:57:46,960
something else going on here?
I remember I sitting in a in a

1026
00:57:46,960 --> 00:57:52,370
singles ward sacrament meeting.
And and a bunch of younger guys

1027
00:57:52,370 --> 00:57:55,810
in front, in the bench in front
of me, we're talking.

1028
00:57:55,810 --> 00:57:59,050
It's fast and testimony meeting.
And one of them goes up there

1029
00:57:59,050 --> 00:58:04,890
and he reads a beautiful quote
and says a cool testimony and

1030
00:58:04,890 --> 00:58:07,610
you know, it was really nice.
And he comes and sits back down

1031
00:58:08,290 --> 00:58:11,890
and he turns to his friend who's
sitting next to him, and he's

1032
00:58:11,890 --> 00:58:16,570
like, I bet that'll give me a
few dates, yeah.

1033
00:58:17,250 --> 00:58:18,930
And I'm just like.
Wow.

1034
00:58:18,970 --> 00:58:22,450
But then I started thinking, Oh
my gosh, you know, seriously,

1035
00:58:22,450 --> 00:58:25,410
though, you know, you're single.
You're looking around.

1036
00:58:25,410 --> 00:58:27,450
You're in a single war.
There's girls here.

1037
00:58:27,450 --> 00:58:32,530
Hey, you know, maybe I want to
go bear my testimony or maybe I

1038
00:58:32,530 --> 00:58:37,770
just kind of want to get seen.
And so it's not.

1039
00:58:38,170 --> 00:58:40,010
We're all going to do wrong
things.

1040
00:58:40,530 --> 00:58:42,490
And identifying that and
repenting it, that's an

1041
00:58:42,490 --> 00:58:46,530
important thing to do.
The pride and the and the danger

1042
00:58:46,530 --> 00:58:50,000
here.
Though I think creeps in, in the

1043
00:58:50,080 --> 00:58:52,040
the right things we do, the good
things we do.

1044
00:58:52,320 --> 00:58:55,120
And asking ourselves again is is
my eye single?

1045
00:58:55,120 --> 00:58:57,800
The glory of God?
Do I want to get there and bear

1046
00:58:57,800 --> 00:59:00,280
my testimony?
Because I feel it burning within

1047
00:59:00,280 --> 00:59:02,440
me and I want to share that with
everybody else.

1048
00:59:03,320 --> 00:59:05,440
Or do I want to be seen?
Do I want people to think that,

1049
00:59:05,440 --> 00:59:11,480
hey, wow, that guy's got a good
testimony, the little things

1050
00:59:11,480 --> 00:59:15,100
like that, that I think can.
Really get us in the subject of

1051
00:59:15,100 --> 00:59:17,340
idolatry, and that's a very hard
thing to watch.

1052
00:59:17,340 --> 00:59:21,140
It's such a hard thing to watch.
But here's the thing, we've all

1053
00:59:21,140 --> 00:59:23,860
seen it in others, right?
And that's that's also the

1054
00:59:23,860 --> 00:59:27,780
dangerous part, right?
Like, I I don't care what ward

1055
00:59:27,780 --> 00:59:29,700
you're in.
I don't care what stake and what

1056
00:59:29,700 --> 00:59:31,740
state.
Doesn't matter.

1057
00:59:32,540 --> 00:59:35,500
We all know the guy who gets up
and bears his testimony because

1058
00:59:35,500 --> 00:59:37,960
he's angling to be the next
Bishop, right?

1059
00:59:38,280 --> 00:59:42,200
Gonna share some amazing
scriptural insight he's got.

1060
00:59:42,440 --> 00:59:48,240
Not for the sake of just sharing
it, but for for the the sake of,

1061
00:59:49,320 --> 00:59:52,160
you know, I could be the next
man, so to speak.

1062
00:59:53,080 --> 00:59:54,960
Yeah, but I don't think it's
necessarily black.

1063
00:59:54,960 --> 00:59:57,040
It's not a black and white
issue, I don't believe.

1064
00:59:57,120 --> 00:59:59,480
I don't think it's either your
motives are right or your

1065
00:59:59,480 --> 01:00:01,440
motives are wrong.
I think there's a spectrum

1066
01:00:01,440 --> 01:00:03,200
there.
There is and.

1067
01:00:03,600 --> 01:00:06,560
That's something you can always
work on.

1068
01:00:07,440 --> 01:00:12,240
Then if we're 99% doing it for
the right reason, that's okay,

1069
01:00:12,360 --> 01:00:14,600
because that means that we still
got a 1% to work on.

1070
01:00:14,600 --> 01:00:17,360
And that is that last 1% too
that you that's, that's that

1071
01:00:17,360 --> 01:00:21,360
that that eternally dividing
number that never quite reaches

1072
01:00:21,360 --> 01:00:25,800
0.
So yeah, yeah.

1073
01:00:26,640 --> 01:00:31,080
And here's the other thing you
got to watch when things when

1074
01:00:31,080 --> 01:00:34,640
you start getting emotional,
when you start getting

1075
01:00:34,640 --> 01:00:38,830
emotional.
You need to really, really stop

1076
01:00:40,270 --> 01:00:44,590
and ask yourself why and really
look at that, right.

1077
01:00:45,230 --> 01:00:47,670
I mean, and here's the thing, I
mean, yeah, we're good friends

1078
01:00:47,670 --> 01:00:49,790
here, but we don't always agree
on things, right?

1079
01:00:49,870 --> 01:00:52,070
No.
And sometimes we disagree and

1080
01:00:52,070 --> 01:00:54,470
that's okay, you know.
And when we were having our

1081
01:00:54,470 --> 01:00:58,790
conversation earlier today as we
were talking, I noticed that how

1082
01:00:59,710 --> 01:01:01,230
sensing a little bit of emotion
here.

1083
01:01:01,950 --> 01:01:04,990
And I don't, I don't like that.
Where is this coming from?

1084
01:01:05,720 --> 01:01:08,160
And, you know, I stopped and I
was like, you know, I asked you

1085
01:01:08,160 --> 01:01:10,880
a couple questions, like, let's,
let's calm down here.

1086
01:01:10,880 --> 01:01:13,800
But, you know, because, I mean,
we didn't get an argument, but

1087
01:01:13,800 --> 01:01:15,760
it seemed like it could could
have been heading that way.

1088
01:01:15,760 --> 01:01:19,000
Right?
Because our, you know, we're

1089
01:01:19,000 --> 01:01:21,080
getting emotional, all right.
At least I was getting

1090
01:01:21,080 --> 01:01:22,960
emotional.
And I'm thinking, well, why?

1091
01:01:22,960 --> 01:01:27,160
And you know, when you stop and
interrupt that, look at it, it

1092
01:01:27,480 --> 01:01:30,080
was very clear, like, oh, we're
just, we're saying the same

1093
01:01:30,080 --> 01:01:32,480
thing here.
We're just, we're just using a

1094
01:01:32,480 --> 01:01:34,120
different work.
No big deal.

1095
01:01:35,260 --> 01:01:36,540
And so, I mean, that's a
valuable thing and

1096
01:01:36,540 --> 01:01:39,500
interpersonally, but it's when
you see stuff going on, it's

1097
01:01:39,500 --> 01:01:43,220
when you see stuff going on.
And so I guess like in a sense

1098
01:01:43,220 --> 01:01:45,460
with Tim Ballard, when when
you're, when you're listening to

1099
01:01:45,460 --> 01:01:47,780
this, if you're saying you're
just like, Oh my gosh, I'm so

1100
01:01:47,780 --> 01:01:50,220
upset about this, How how dare
this person say this?

1101
01:01:50,220 --> 01:01:53,620
How dare somebody say that we
get caught up in this emotional

1102
01:01:53,620 --> 01:01:56,740
moment?
That's kind of the sign, because

1103
01:01:57,140 --> 01:02:01,700
idolatry does not exist without
that strong allegiance.

1104
01:02:03,040 --> 01:02:05,880
And as human beings, when our
allegiances are threatened, you

1105
01:02:05,880 --> 01:02:12,240
know, we want to bare our teeth.
And so you maybe it's a good

1106
01:02:12,240 --> 01:02:15,400
reason to be wearing your teeth,
but if you're feeling that

1107
01:02:15,400 --> 01:02:20,240
emotional, whoa, it's a good
time to stop and double check?

1108
01:02:21,040 --> 01:02:24,480
Absolutely.
Is this really something I want

1109
01:02:24,480 --> 01:02:28,760
to bare my teeth over?
Because, you know, Tim Ballard

1110
01:02:28,760 --> 01:02:30,200
can have done a lot of good
work.

1111
01:02:30,960 --> 01:02:33,720
And and he might have made some
mistakes.

1112
01:02:33,880 --> 01:02:35,600
That doesn't discount the good
work he does.

1113
01:02:35,600 --> 01:02:37,080
It doesn't make you a bad
person.

1114
01:02:37,160 --> 01:02:41,040
If, if, if, if, if, he if, if we
were swindled by him and it

1115
01:02:41,040 --> 01:02:42,920
turns out he's not what he
represented himself.

1116
01:02:42,920 --> 01:02:44,440
We don't have to have a stake in
that.

1117
01:02:44,840 --> 01:02:47,480
In fact, the only stake we
should have in that is, well,

1118
01:02:47,480 --> 01:02:49,880
what is the truth here?
That's the only thing we could

1119
01:02:49,880 --> 01:02:52,760
really care about.
Can't get enough of the Mormon

1120
01:02:52,760 --> 01:02:55,640
Renegade Podcast?
Well, good news, we're on

1121
01:02:55,640 --> 01:02:58,080
Patreon and there's three
packages that you can choose

1122
01:02:58,080 --> 01:03:00,270
from.
The first one, the Slightly

1123
01:03:00,270 --> 01:03:03,510
Rowdy package, allows you to
hear the podcast without all

1124
01:03:03,510 --> 01:03:05,470
those pesky commercials getting
in the way.

1125
01:03:05,910 --> 01:03:08,830
For those who want a slightly
more indepth experience, there's

1126
01:03:08,830 --> 01:03:12,350
the Stirring It Up package where
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1127
01:03:12,590 --> 01:03:16,350
adfree video, and transcripts.
Finally, for those who want to

1128
01:03:16,350 --> 01:03:19,710
go full Renegade, that package
is available to where you can

1129
01:03:19,710 --> 01:03:23,470
get everything in the previous
two packages, plus an extra show

1130
01:03:23,470 --> 01:03:26,830
where myself and Ben Winfield
break down the news of the day

1131
01:03:26,830 --> 01:03:28,590
from a very Mormon point of
view.

1132
01:03:29,020 --> 01:03:33,020
You will also get exclusive
access to Renegade chat, and on

1133
01:03:33,020 --> 01:03:35,220
there you'll be able to talk to
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1134
01:03:35,220 --> 01:03:36,940
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mind.

1135
01:03:37,300 --> 01:03:40,580
Go to Patreon today and get your
exclusive content.

1136
01:03:40,740 --> 01:03:43,340
This episode of the podcast is
brought to you by Deseret

1137
01:03:43,340 --> 01:03:45,980
flag.com.
I've said this before and I

1138
01:03:45,980 --> 01:03:48,460
really mean it.
Mormonism isn't just a religion,

1139
01:03:48,460 --> 01:03:50,700
it's a culture.
As such, it has its own

1140
01:03:50,700 --> 01:03:53,460
vernacular and practices, but
also its own symbols.

1141
01:03:53,740 --> 01:03:56,220
And those symbols become even
more important and prominent

1142
01:03:56,220 --> 01:03:57,860
when you look back into our
history.

1143
01:03:58,290 --> 01:04:00,410
Perhaps one of the most
recognizable symbols of

1144
01:04:00,410 --> 01:04:04,010
Mormonism is the Deseret flag.
This is the flag that I use as

1145
01:04:04,010 --> 01:04:07,650
cover art in this podcast.
This was also used for a good

1146
01:04:07,650 --> 01:04:09,970
chunk of time during the Pioneer
era in Utah.

1147
01:04:10,330 --> 01:04:13,210
Now, today we have people who
want to replace the existing

1148
01:04:13,210 --> 01:04:16,210
Utah flag with some other
progressive monstrosity.

1149
01:04:16,410 --> 01:04:19,410
Well, I think it's damn past
time that we start pushing back

1150
01:04:19,410 --> 01:04:22,200
here a little bit in Utah.
Our friends at Defending Utah

1151
01:04:22,200 --> 01:04:24,560
are here to help you with that.
Now, if you go to

1152
01:04:24,560 --> 01:04:28,280
deseretflag.com, you can now
purchase your own Deseret State

1153
01:04:28,280 --> 01:04:30,520
flag.
It's time here that we start

1154
01:04:30,520 --> 01:04:33,720
making ourselves known and join
the resistance against those who

1155
01:04:33,720 --> 01:04:35,680
seek to rewrite our state's
history.

1156
01:04:36,080 --> 01:04:40,640
Go to deseretflag.com or check
out the link in this episode's

1157
01:04:40,640 --> 01:04:42,880
page.
Show notes and get yours today.

1158
01:04:43,600 --> 01:04:46,800
And and none of us have those
answers right now.

1159
01:04:46,840 --> 01:04:48,920
Not enough information has come
out and.

1160
01:04:51,280 --> 01:04:53,120
And so on either side, whether
it's you're, you know where

1161
01:04:53,120 --> 01:04:55,280
you're swinging on the on the
church on this issue or Tim

1162
01:04:55,280 --> 01:04:57,920
Ballard on the issue, we really
ought to be in a kind of a

1163
01:04:57,920 --> 01:05:01,120
neutral place and just be like
well let's find out let's find

1164
01:05:01,120 --> 01:05:04,320
out what it is and you know and
if and if I made mistakes, if

1165
01:05:04,320 --> 01:05:07,080
we've made something okay, well,
we'll learn from that and we'll

1166
01:05:07,080 --> 01:05:11,320
do that and it's okay.
I think nothing bothers me more

1167
01:05:11,320 --> 01:05:14,360
than this false idea in
Christianity is even it's it's

1168
01:05:14,360 --> 01:05:18,600
probably it's everywhere that
you know, as Christians or as

1169
01:05:18,600 --> 01:05:22,380
Mormons, we don't sin.
We don't want to be seen

1170
01:05:22,380 --> 01:05:24,300
sinning.
We don't want to be seen making

1171
01:05:24,300 --> 01:05:28,060
mistakes.
We want to always make the right

1172
01:05:28,060 --> 01:05:29,940
decision.
We want to always have the right

1173
01:05:29,940 --> 01:05:33,980
opinion.
And because we don't want that

1174
01:05:33,980 --> 01:05:39,300
shame, we're afraid of the shame
of people seeing us as as weak.

1175
01:05:40,780 --> 01:05:44,220
And so we know within ourselves
that, hey, I'm not a perfect

1176
01:05:44,220 --> 01:05:48,540
person, but we look around us
and.

1177
01:05:49,550 --> 01:05:52,550
And even in the way we present
ourselves to the world, we tend

1178
01:05:52,550 --> 01:05:57,550
to want to put up, put a mask
and present ourselves as I'm not

1179
01:05:57,550 --> 01:06:00,030
somebody who whoever screws up,
I'm.

1180
01:06:00,070 --> 01:06:04,430
I'm never wrong.
And it's it's missing the entire

1181
01:06:04,430 --> 01:06:10,470
point of Christianity, missing
the entire point we should, we

1182
01:06:10,550 --> 01:06:15,950
should see all of us as brothers
and sisters, fellow kneaders of

1183
01:06:15,950 --> 01:06:22,130
the Savior, right.
I I would say this as well.

1184
01:06:22,130 --> 01:06:25,490
So I I want to touch on on all
all three of these things.

1185
01:06:25,490 --> 01:06:27,530
First off, on on the emotional
thing.

1186
01:06:28,530 --> 01:06:33,690
I think part of the reason that
people might have a hard time

1187
01:06:33,690 --> 01:06:37,090
accepting that, hey, maybe both
parties involved here are wrong

1188
01:06:37,530 --> 01:06:40,050
is because they've hitched their
wagon there, right?

1189
01:06:40,050 --> 01:06:44,090
They've they've made that the
engine at which it drives their

1190
01:06:44,090 --> 01:06:49,030
faith and their motivation.
That's scary when you find out.

1191
01:06:49,030 --> 01:06:52,990
Maybe you're wrong there.
But I'll say this Welcome to

1192
01:06:52,990 --> 01:06:58,870
Mormonism K the founder Joseph
Smith, the Wellspring.

1193
01:06:58,950 --> 01:07:03,990
The dispensation head called
Oliver Cowdery, who turned out

1194
01:07:04,030 --> 01:07:11,510
to be not so good at times, did
great other times, but wasn't so

1195
01:07:11,510 --> 01:07:14,590
good.
He also called John C Bennett,

1196
01:07:15,790 --> 01:07:17,870
right.
There's no harm in saying, you

1197
01:07:17,870 --> 01:07:19,790
know what?
I thought this guy was this, but

1198
01:07:19,790 --> 01:07:23,750
it turns out he was that.
Or he did some good things and

1199
01:07:23,750 --> 01:07:28,750
he did some bad things, right?
Winston Churchill's a great

1200
01:07:28,750 --> 01:07:32,950
example of that.
If you talk to most people in in

1201
01:07:32,950 --> 01:07:38,430
western, in the western world,
America, England, France, Great

1202
01:07:38,430 --> 01:07:44,430
Britain, obviously even Germany.
Churchill was a great guy.

1203
01:07:44,820 --> 01:07:47,660
You know, he, he really rallied
everybody when he had to.

1204
01:07:48,220 --> 01:07:52,860
But if you talk to people in
India, well, that guy was was a

1205
01:07:52,860 --> 01:07:55,620
complete, pardon the expression,
he was a complete ass to those,

1206
01:07:55,660 --> 01:07:58,860
to the to the people in India.
And so the question becomes,

1207
01:07:58,860 --> 01:08:01,460
well, which one is he?
Well, he's both.

1208
01:08:02,380 --> 01:08:03,900
Yeah, he's both.
He's.

1209
01:08:03,980 --> 01:08:05,060
We don't want to see it that
way.

1210
01:08:05,060 --> 01:08:06,060
We don't want to see it that
way.

1211
01:08:06,060 --> 01:08:09,340
We want to believe some people
are perfect and our enemies are

1212
01:08:09,340 --> 01:08:16,660
absolutely evil and you know.
Truth is black and white, but we

1213
01:08:16,779 --> 01:08:22,779
stand in in this great space in
between and we can do good

1214
01:08:22,779 --> 01:08:27,140
things and we can do bad things.
And we're going to do both.

1215
01:08:27,220 --> 01:08:29,899
We're going to be a mix.
Everybody's going to be a mix.

1216
01:08:30,100 --> 01:08:32,580
You know, people, people want to
make idols out of George

1217
01:08:32,580 --> 01:08:36,460
Washington, Abraham Lincoln, and
none of those.

1218
01:08:36,580 --> 01:08:40,420
I mean, I, I, I, I guarantee you
that they would not accept those

1219
01:08:40,420 --> 01:08:42,060
titles.
We don't want them on them.

1220
01:08:42,819 --> 01:08:45,779
No.
And and so, you know, and it's

1221
01:08:45,779 --> 01:08:49,260
not Even so much a Gray area,
Justin, as it is both black and

1222
01:08:49,260 --> 01:08:51,140
white, right?
We do some really good things

1223
01:08:51,779 --> 01:08:53,660
and we do some really crappy
things.

1224
01:08:53,859 --> 01:08:57,300
All of us do, right.
I've always said I can never run

1225
01:08:57,300 --> 01:09:02,220
for public office because prior
to 1995, someone's going to say,

1226
01:09:02,220 --> 01:09:03,979
hey, I think I got a picture of
you.

1227
01:09:04,020 --> 01:09:07,380
What year 94, Good chance.
I'm just going to take your word

1228
01:09:07,380 --> 01:09:12,979
for it, right?
But post 95, I've led and not

1229
01:09:12,979 --> 01:09:16,660
say I haven't made mistakes
because I certainly have all

1230
01:09:16,660 --> 01:09:21,300
along the way, but nothing quite
as drastic as as my pre Mormon

1231
01:09:21,460 --> 01:09:26,420
life, right?
And so I'm sure my kids will

1232
01:09:26,420 --> 01:09:29,979
read my journal someday and go,
the old man was kind of a

1233
01:09:29,979 --> 01:09:33,260
dirtbag for a while, right?
And then they're going to look

1234
01:09:33,260 --> 01:09:36,060
and say, OK, he did some good
stuff along the way and there'll

1235
01:09:36,060 --> 01:09:40,240
be a mix all the way through.
I just I I just try to do better

1236
01:09:40,240 --> 01:09:42,560
every day.
It brings up a really

1237
01:09:42,560 --> 01:09:44,080
interesting question when you
say that.

1238
01:09:44,080 --> 01:09:48,640
So is anybody qualified to run
for president by that standard?

1239
01:09:48,920 --> 01:09:52,880
I I don't.
I think there's guys who have

1240
01:09:52,880 --> 01:09:58,080
led better lives than I had.
I had LED certainly wouldn't

1241
01:09:58,080 --> 01:10:01,480
have, wouldn't wouldn't have
that degree of screwing up

1242
01:10:01,640 --> 01:10:04,720
right?
But I think what's really

1243
01:10:04,720 --> 01:10:07,600
important is, is where we're at
now, right?

1244
01:10:07,940 --> 01:10:09,100
Right, exactly.
And.

1245
01:10:09,220 --> 01:10:12,540
Right now where we're trying to
go, it at least be able to show

1246
01:10:12,540 --> 01:10:15,740
a pivot point, right?
Say up to this point I was kind

1247
01:10:15,740 --> 01:10:19,340
of this way, but once I hit
here, I pivoted, right?

1248
01:10:19,340 --> 01:10:22,260
I I understood I had to make
changes and and and made those

1249
01:10:22,260 --> 01:10:27,260
changes as far as not allowing
ourselves to become idols to

1250
01:10:27,260 --> 01:10:31,020
other people.
This is why it's so important to

1251
01:10:31,020 --> 01:10:35,380
have people around that'll call
you on your BSI don't know how

1252
01:10:35,380 --> 01:10:39,190
else to put it right.
If for no other reason.

1253
01:10:39,190 --> 01:10:43,590
I am so thankful for my wife,
not just because of the love and

1254
01:10:43,590 --> 01:10:48,590
care they give me, but also they
don't have a problem in saying

1255
01:10:48,790 --> 01:10:50,790
you're kind of being an ass,
right?

1256
01:10:50,790 --> 01:10:54,470
And then keeping me grounded.
The conversation you and I had

1257
01:10:54,470 --> 01:10:56,830
today again.
Well, Dave, I don't think you

1258
01:10:56,830 --> 01:11:00,790
completely got it right on this.
I I welcome that, right.

1259
01:11:00,990 --> 01:11:05,930
You need that kind of support
system to keep you in check to

1260
01:11:06,450 --> 01:11:09,050
people to call you out and say
no, your crap really does stink,

1261
01:11:09,450 --> 01:11:13,130
right?
As far as not making idols of

1262
01:11:13,130 --> 01:11:17,530
other people, I would say this.
You keep your eyes fixed on

1263
01:11:17,570 --> 01:11:21,730
Jesus Christ.
You keep your eyes fixed on that

1264
01:11:21,730 --> 01:11:23,930
example.
That's where your eyes should be

1265
01:11:23,930 --> 01:11:27,570
fixed.
That should be the one and only

1266
01:11:27,570 --> 01:11:32,490
individual that you seek out to
emulate wholeheartedly.

1267
01:11:33,290 --> 01:11:36,790
The other thing is, is that when
these kind of scenarios are

1268
01:11:36,790 --> 01:11:39,990
coming up like we're seeing now
and and and you and I are

1269
01:11:39,990 --> 01:11:42,430
similar in the sense we both
kind of keep our thumb on the

1270
01:11:42,430 --> 01:11:44,710
pulse of Mormonism across the
spectrum.

1271
01:11:45,430 --> 01:11:50,110
And I've seen so much emotion
here, right?

1272
01:11:50,950 --> 01:11:55,550
Fix yourself in principle.
Fix yourself in principle.

1273
01:11:56,310 --> 01:11:59,110
Don't fix yourself on an
individual.

1274
01:12:00,620 --> 01:12:03,140
That was the beauty of the US
Constitution, right?

1275
01:12:03,140 --> 01:12:06,420
Was this idea of we're going to
write this down so we're never

1276
01:12:06,420 --> 01:12:09,500
subject to the whims of a king,
right?

1277
01:12:09,500 --> 01:12:13,620
Which can change on a dime,
which, you know, is full of

1278
01:12:13,620 --> 01:12:16,180
passion and emotion and those
sorts of things.

1279
01:12:16,180 --> 01:12:20,620
We're going to fix it on, on
something that that will maybe

1280
01:12:20,620 --> 01:12:23,940
check that.
Fix yourself on good principles

1281
01:12:23,940 --> 01:12:27,140
within your eyes, firmly set on
the Savior.

1282
01:12:28,030 --> 01:12:31,390
I think that's the best way that
you can avoid making idols out

1283
01:12:31,390 --> 01:12:36,070
of people and institutions that
you shouldn't be making idols

1284
01:12:36,070 --> 01:12:40,790
out of.
Yeah, absolutely.

1285
01:12:41,950 --> 01:12:45,030
The other thing is, is that when
these times come along, you can

1286
01:12:45,030 --> 01:12:52,030
make a healthy distinction
between you can make a healthy

1287
01:12:52,030 --> 01:12:56,140
distinction back to yeah,
they're people, and as people,

1288
01:12:56,460 --> 01:13:00,260
we all suck sometimes.
I think this is a really

1289
01:13:00,260 --> 01:13:04,300
pertinent topic and it's only
going to become more and more

1290
01:13:04,300 --> 01:13:07,420
important as time passes.
I think that what we're seeing

1291
01:13:07,420 --> 01:13:12,140
right now is is just the
beginning of of what we have in

1292
01:13:12,140 --> 01:13:15,060
store as a nation, as as a
church.

1293
01:13:15,580 --> 01:13:21,860
And yeah, a lot of this actually
has some very significant

1294
01:13:21,980 --> 01:13:26,650
parallels to to.
To the knee fight civilization

1295
01:13:26,650 --> 01:13:28,570
right before Christ visited
them.

1296
01:13:31,650 --> 01:13:33,490
Would you like me to?
Yeah, yeah, let's.

1297
01:13:34,170 --> 01:13:38,090
Dive Yeah, let's dive into it.
All right, so the fascinating

1298
01:13:38,090 --> 01:13:41,610
thing is here, right before this
happened, right before this

1299
01:13:41,610 --> 01:13:43,770
happened, the knee fights had
had beat the giddy Anton

1300
01:13:43,770 --> 01:13:45,650
robbers.
They buried their secret plans.

1301
01:13:45,650 --> 01:13:47,570
They they cleaned up the knee
fights.

1302
01:13:47,730 --> 01:13:50,090
The Lamanites, you know, living
together in harmony.

1303
01:13:50,090 --> 01:13:54,970
Things were things were good.
Really, really good.

1304
01:13:55,320 --> 01:14:02,080
But they fell apart so fast, and
in 3rd Nephi chapter six started

1305
01:14:02,120 --> 01:14:05,440
here just in verse 414, and this
is a fascinating parallel.

1306
01:14:06,120 --> 01:14:09,560
And thus there became a great
inequality in all the land, in

1307
01:14:09,560 --> 01:14:12,480
so much that the church began to
be broken up.

1308
01:14:14,320 --> 01:14:19,400
Yay, so much that in the 30th
year the church was broken up in

1309
01:14:19,440 --> 01:14:22,480
all the land save it were among
a few of the Lamanites.

1310
01:14:22,830 --> 01:14:25,790
Who were converted into the true
faith, for they would not depart

1311
01:14:25,790 --> 01:14:29,870
from it, for they were firm and
steadfast and immovable, willing

1312
01:14:30,310 --> 01:14:32,870
with all diligence to keep the
commandments of the Lord.

1313
01:14:34,390 --> 01:14:39,870
That just when I first saw that
I mean I I hadn't comprehended

1314
01:14:39,870 --> 01:14:44,150
this historically, since since I
became converted to

1315
01:14:44,150 --> 01:14:49,230
fundamentalism.
The first thing was, and it

1316
01:14:49,230 --> 01:14:51,870
starts with pride.
And people lifting themselves up

1317
01:14:51,870 --> 01:14:54,150
and and and classism and all
that.

1318
01:14:54,590 --> 01:14:58,630
And the first thing is the
church becomes broken up, right?

1319
01:14:59,030 --> 01:15:02,790
And I'm like looking around
thinking wow, I can see some

1320
01:15:02,790 --> 01:15:05,870
parallels.
I can see some parallels.

1321
01:15:08,230 --> 01:15:12,830
And now this cause of this
iniquity was of the people was

1322
01:15:12,830 --> 01:15:15,030
this.
Satan had great power under the

1323
01:15:15,030 --> 01:15:17,710
string up of the people to do
all manner of iniquity and the

1324
01:15:17,710 --> 01:15:21,350
puffing them up with pride.
Attempting them to seek for

1325
01:15:21,350 --> 01:15:24,470
power and authority and riches
and the vain things of the

1326
01:15:24,470 --> 01:15:27,790
world.
In other words, get your eyes

1327
01:15:28,190 --> 01:15:30,350
off.
Don't not even I single.

1328
01:15:30,350 --> 01:15:32,070
No, no, no.
Get your eyes off the Lord

1329
01:15:32,070 --> 01:15:36,150
entirely.
It's motivation.

1330
01:15:36,310 --> 01:15:38,470
It's what the people are are
living for.

1331
01:15:38,470 --> 01:15:40,550
They're not, they're not living
for the Lord anymore.

1332
01:15:40,590 --> 01:15:42,870
They're not living to to live
the gospel and for their

1333
01:15:42,870 --> 01:15:47,870
families and to just enjoy the
fruits of the gospel.

1334
01:15:48,790 --> 01:15:55,750
There, well, no power,
authority, riches and these

1335
01:15:55,750 --> 01:15:59,230
motivations start creeping in
among the knee fights and the

1336
01:15:59,230 --> 01:16:01,510
churches.
Now it's interesting, the

1337
01:16:01,510 --> 01:16:04,990
churches has broken up.
It's not functioning the way

1338
01:16:04,990 --> 01:16:07,150
that it needs.
And you know you can look at

1339
01:16:07,150 --> 01:16:09,310
that within Mormonism and see
the church being broken up.

1340
01:16:09,310 --> 01:16:12,230
You can also look at this at a
macro level in the country.

1341
01:16:12,310 --> 01:16:15,910
Christianity, the church has
broken up where we once had

1342
01:16:15,910 --> 01:16:20,010
strong allies.
At least maybe, maybe if we

1343
01:16:20,010 --> 01:16:21,930
weren't even maybe we weren't
friendly.

1344
01:16:21,930 --> 01:16:26,290
But we still had strong
political allies with with the

1345
01:16:26,290 --> 01:16:27,690
rest of the Christians in this
nation.

1346
01:16:27,930 --> 01:16:31,290
We might not see eye to eye on
Joseph Smith in the Book of

1347
01:16:31,290 --> 01:16:38,010
Mormon, but certainly we see eye
to eye on on how we how we

1348
01:16:38,010 --> 01:16:42,650
treat, how we treat other
people, how what is morally

1349
01:16:42,650 --> 01:16:45,770
acceptable, what things should
be taught to our children.

1350
01:16:47,020 --> 01:16:51,380
Whether or not it's okay to to
kill inconvenient babies, I

1351
01:16:51,380 --> 01:16:53,580
mean, we we, we shared a lot of
common ground.

1352
01:16:53,780 --> 01:16:56,700
And with this country.
Now, the church being broken up

1353
01:16:56,700 --> 01:17:00,420
within the country, that
foundation's not there anymore.

1354
01:17:00,820 --> 01:17:03,620
That moral foundation's not
there anymore.

1355
01:17:05,340 --> 01:17:12,580
So things became bad among the
knee fights, and you've got

1356
01:17:12,580 --> 01:17:15,940
Nephi there.
Who's out testifying?

1357
01:17:16,820 --> 01:17:18,900
To the people that, hey, you
know, this isn't right.

1358
01:17:19,060 --> 01:17:21,980
And we we need to repent and we
need to get back to the Lord.

1359
01:17:21,980 --> 01:17:24,140
We need to fix, fix our hearts
and stuff, right.

1360
01:17:24,460 --> 01:17:29,100
And now 21, it says now there
were many of the people who were

1361
01:17:29,100 --> 01:17:32,020
exceedingly angry because of
those who testified of these

1362
01:17:32,020 --> 01:17:35,700
things and those who were angry
and we we talked about emotion

1363
01:17:35,700 --> 01:17:38,700
and getting angry about stuff.
Why were they getting angry?

1364
01:17:38,700 --> 01:17:40,660
Well, maybe idols were being
smashed, right?

1365
01:17:43,300 --> 01:17:47,260
But those who are angry were
chiefly the chief judges, and

1366
01:17:47,260 --> 01:17:49,100
they who had been high priests
and lawyers.

1367
01:17:49,980 --> 01:17:52,220
All those who were lawyers were
angry with those who testified

1368
01:17:52,220 --> 01:17:54,660
of these things.
Now there was no lawyer, nor

1369
01:17:54,660 --> 01:17:58,420
judge, nor high priest that had,
that could have power to condemn

1370
01:17:58,460 --> 01:18:00,340
anyone to death.
Say their condemnation was

1371
01:18:00,340 --> 01:18:01,900
signed by the governor of the
land.

1372
01:18:02,740 --> 01:18:05,500
Now there were many of those who
testified of things pertaining

1373
01:18:05,500 --> 01:18:09,020
to Christ, who testified boldly,
who were taken and put to death

1374
01:18:09,020 --> 01:18:12,060
secretly by the judges.
That the knowledge of their

1375
01:18:12,060 --> 01:18:15,260
death came not unto the governor
of the land until after their

1376
01:18:15,260 --> 01:18:18,580
death.
I think what we're seeing here

1377
01:18:18,580 --> 01:18:21,780
is we've got their secret
combinations going on, right?

1378
01:18:21,860 --> 01:18:29,060
They're back these.
Authority really are threatened

1379
01:18:29,180 --> 01:18:32,260
by the message of Christianity.
That's going to smash idols.

1380
01:18:32,540 --> 01:18:35,500
That's going to and it's going
to expose them and they don't

1381
01:18:35,500 --> 01:18:38,790
want to be exposed.
They like their position.

1382
01:18:38,790 --> 01:18:44,510
And so they've got these really
inconvenient prophets and people

1383
01:18:44,510 --> 01:18:47,230
coming among them.
They're kind of shining light

1384
01:18:47,310 --> 01:18:52,110
and kind of ruining their game.
And at this point in time,

1385
01:18:52,430 --> 01:18:56,030
they're not, you know, this
isn't King Noah who's just going

1386
01:18:56,030 --> 01:18:57,630
to, you know, take them, and
we're just going to publicly

1387
01:18:57,630 --> 01:19:01,190
execute this dude they got.
They've got to do it quietly,

1388
01:19:01,190 --> 01:19:03,870
kind of in secret, illegally,
right?

1389
01:19:04,270 --> 01:19:06,670
But they feel a need to do it
nonetheless, and.

1390
01:19:08,450 --> 01:19:10,930
I see parallels with this in our
day and age too, especially with

1391
01:19:11,130 --> 01:19:15,730
the weaponization of of our
justice system in America right

1392
01:19:15,730 --> 01:19:17,330
now and the politicization of
it.

1393
01:19:17,370 --> 01:19:22,770
And and there's some stuff that
just really doesn't quite add up

1394
01:19:22,770 --> 01:19:25,730
and it's becoming exposed.
It's it's kind of coming into

1395
01:19:25,730 --> 01:19:28,090
the open, but there there's
being the works being done in

1396
01:19:28,090 --> 01:19:30,290
secret.
And undeniably I've got a lot of

1397
01:19:30,290 --> 01:19:34,490
questions about all kinds of
really fishy things going on.

1398
01:19:34,490 --> 01:19:36,610
You know Ray Epps just recently
was.

1399
01:19:38,590 --> 01:19:42,590
Like got charged, you know, with
like like a misdemeanor.

1400
01:19:43,910 --> 01:19:46,590
Meanwhile, you've got other
people who, and he was the one

1401
01:19:46,590 --> 01:19:48,950
who was calling for violence and
saying we're going to sponsor

1402
01:19:48,990 --> 01:19:51,710
capital.
And at the front of the line

1403
01:19:51,710 --> 01:19:53,230
doing that.
Then you got some grandmother

1404
01:19:53,230 --> 01:19:57,110
who who just was there and
followed the crowd in, never

1405
01:19:57,110 --> 01:19:59,950
hurt anybody, didn't touch
anything, just wandered in and

1406
01:19:59,950 --> 01:20:01,390
wandered down.
And it's like, you know, five

1407
01:20:01,390 --> 01:20:04,630
years in prison, you're an
insurrectionist, but.

1408
01:20:04,910 --> 01:20:08,060
But this guy's not.
It seems to me I could be wrong,

1409
01:20:08,060 --> 01:20:11,580
but it seems to me that there's
maybe something kind of secret

1410
01:20:11,580 --> 01:20:13,860
going on here.
Just a little bit.

1411
01:20:14,340 --> 01:20:17,580
Maybe something's a little, you
know on on the on the down low

1412
01:20:17,620 --> 01:20:22,060
and shrouded in in in the cover
of darkness about what's really

1413
01:20:22,060 --> 01:20:25,980
going on.
So now that that didn't really

1414
01:20:25,980 --> 01:20:30,500
last among the knee fights
because what they were doing was

1415
01:20:30,500 --> 01:20:32,580
wrong.
They were violating their their

1416
01:20:32,580 --> 01:20:36,220
government, their governmental
mandates and abusing that

1417
01:20:36,220 --> 01:20:39,620
authority and you know they
couldn't keep it secret forever

1418
01:20:39,940 --> 01:20:43,380
and it and it came to the they
came up to the chief judge to

1419
01:20:43,380 --> 01:20:45,780
their to their president.
It's hey, you know we we caught

1420
01:20:45,780 --> 01:20:47,700
some people doing some really
shady things here.

1421
01:20:48,900 --> 01:20:50,060
What are you going to do about
it.

1422
01:20:50,620 --> 01:20:53,420
So on on verse 26 it says Now it
came to pass that they were

1423
01:20:53,420 --> 01:20:56,500
taken and brought up before the
judge to be judged of the crime

1424
01:20:56,500 --> 01:20:59,380
which they had done according to
the law which had been given by

1425
01:20:59,380 --> 01:21:02,410
the people.
Now it came to pass that those

1426
01:21:02,410 --> 01:21:05,250
judges had many friends and
kindreds in the and the

1427
01:21:05,250 --> 01:21:08,930
remainder, yeah, even almost all
the lawyers and the high priest

1428
01:21:08,930 --> 01:21:11,450
did gather themselves together
and unite with the kindreds of

1429
01:21:11,450 --> 01:21:13,650
those judges who were to be
tried according to the law.

1430
01:21:16,130 --> 01:21:18,290
And they did enter into a
covenant, one with one with

1431
01:21:18,290 --> 01:21:20,940
another.
Yeah, even unto that into that

1432
01:21:20,940 --> 01:21:23,540
covenant which was given by them
of old which covenant was given

1433
01:21:23,540 --> 01:21:25,860
and administered by the devil,
to combine against all

1434
01:21:25,860 --> 01:21:27,540
righteousness.
Therefore they did combine

1435
01:21:27,540 --> 01:21:29,700
against the people of the Lord,
and enter into a covenant to

1436
01:21:29,700 --> 01:21:33,620
destroy them, and to deliver
those who are guilty of murder

1437
01:21:33,620 --> 01:21:37,180
from the grasp of justice, which
was about to be administered

1438
01:21:37,180 --> 01:21:39,740
according to the law.
And they set at defiance the law

1439
01:21:39,740 --> 01:21:41,740
and the rights of their country.
And they did covenant one with

1440
01:21:41,740 --> 01:21:45,100
another to destroy the governor
and to establish a king over the

1441
01:21:45,100 --> 01:21:46,860
land.
That the land should no more be

1442
01:21:46,860 --> 01:21:49,220
at liberty, but should be
subject on the kings.

1443
01:21:50,260 --> 01:21:54,420
I think we are right here.
Yep, Erica today.

1444
01:21:55,060 --> 01:21:59,100
And and I want to liken this a
little bit and and we alluded to

1445
01:21:59,100 --> 01:22:05,100
it earlier, Trump, right where
he comes out and says, well, you

1446
01:22:05,100 --> 01:22:08,940
know, I don't know really how I
feel about abortion, how many

1447
01:22:08,940 --> 01:22:13,420
people to be fair, he said he
thinks a six week abortion ban

1448
01:22:13,420 --> 01:22:15,020
is awful.
Right.

1449
01:22:16,330 --> 01:22:21,490
That's ooh ooh, that's not, in
my opinion, that's not quite

1450
01:22:21,490 --> 01:22:22,730
saying.
I don't know how I feel.

1451
01:22:22,730 --> 01:22:26,090
That's kind of saying, hey, you
know what, under six weeks and

1452
01:22:26,090 --> 01:22:28,090
old, you're not a human yet.
And murder's Okay.

1453
01:22:28,570 --> 01:22:31,170
Personal right.
And that's, and that's what I

1454
01:22:31,170 --> 01:22:35,170
was going to say is people
hitched their political wagons

1455
01:22:35,810 --> 01:22:39,330
to him like he was the savior of
the Republic.

1456
01:22:39,890 --> 01:22:41,890
And I remember I got beat up
over this.

1457
01:22:41,890 --> 01:22:44,530
I continue to get beat up over
this because I'm like, look.

1458
01:22:45,570 --> 01:22:48,090
Is he better than other options?
Probably.

1459
01:22:48,730 --> 01:22:52,690
But let's not for a minute
pretend that he is the savior of

1460
01:22:52,690 --> 01:22:55,210
the Republic, right?
Yeah.

1461
01:22:55,850 --> 01:22:59,050
And and again just another
example of this.

1462
01:23:03,170 --> 01:23:05,210
Well yeah.
And you know in in just in in

1463
01:23:05,210 --> 01:23:08,530
exactly in in relation to that I
here's the thing.

1464
01:23:08,530 --> 01:23:10,330
I've got that.
I've got a real issue with Trump

1465
01:23:10,330 --> 01:23:13,260
now person.
I mean, for me personally, I'm

1466
01:23:13,260 --> 01:23:14,980
the one issue voter on certain
things.

1467
01:23:15,100 --> 01:23:17,420
Abortion is one of those issues
where it's like, okay.

1468
01:23:17,700 --> 01:23:20,860
I cannot vote for him now unless
he recants his stance on that.

1469
01:23:20,900 --> 01:23:22,620
I I can't.
And it's so stupid because he

1470
01:23:22,620 --> 01:23:24,660
didn't even have to go there,
because it's not like it's

1471
01:23:24,660 --> 01:23:26,980
likely that such a bill would
ever land on his desk.

1472
01:23:28,420 --> 01:23:30,980
Where we're at right now,
politically, the likelihood that

1473
01:23:30,980 --> 01:23:34,900
even happening is almost
nonexistent.

1474
01:23:35,340 --> 01:23:39,700
But, but I I you know, it's
either you're pro abortion or

1475
01:23:39,700 --> 01:23:42,770
you're not.
I don't care if it's one week,

1476
01:23:42,770 --> 01:23:45,290
two weeks through it you you can
play with those numbers all you

1477
01:23:45,290 --> 01:23:47,290
like.
Abortion is abortion, though.

1478
01:23:48,170 --> 01:23:52,490
Right.
And so that's a that's a no for

1479
01:23:52,490 --> 01:23:55,530
me.
But before that, you know, I I

1480
01:23:55,530 --> 01:23:58,410
I've been open, right.
And I absolutely believe that

1481
01:23:58,410 --> 01:24:00,930
he's being politically
persecuted right now, though.

1482
01:24:01,410 --> 01:24:04,770
He is again.
The two aren't mutually

1483
01:24:04,770 --> 01:24:06,730
exclusive.
Yeah, it's not mutually.

1484
01:24:06,730 --> 01:24:09,930
And I believe that they
absolutely stole the election

1485
01:24:09,930 --> 01:24:16,300
from him that was manipulated.
And and now here we are in a in

1486
01:24:16,300 --> 01:24:19,060
a place where it's like, you
know, I want to root for him

1487
01:24:19,260 --> 01:24:21,860
because the bad guys are after
him and I want to root for him.

1488
01:24:23,780 --> 01:24:26,900
But am I going to, am I making
an idol out of them?

1489
01:24:27,300 --> 01:24:30,980
If I do so, can I at this point
or can I have to say, hey, you

1490
01:24:30,980 --> 01:24:32,460
know what, I'd.
I'd love to.

1491
01:24:32,460 --> 01:24:35,820
But these are, this is, this is
my standard.

1492
01:24:35,820 --> 01:24:37,700
And if you're if you're not
going to live up to that

1493
01:24:37,700 --> 01:24:40,740
standard, then then I don't want
you, I don't want you to be my

1494
01:24:40,740 --> 01:24:42,620
president.
Right, right.

1495
01:24:43,140 --> 01:24:45,620
And that's healthy.
That's 100%.

1496
01:24:45,860 --> 01:24:50,420
That's 100% healthy and and I'm
like you when it comes to the

1497
01:24:50,420 --> 01:24:53,740
abortion thing that'll make you
or break you with me, right?

1498
01:24:54,820 --> 01:24:58,660
It it just is.
I mean, if it's human life.

1499
01:24:59,510 --> 01:25:02,510
And, and I know this is a strong
statement, but it's something I

1500
01:25:02,510 --> 01:25:05,190
truly believe at my core, so
I'll take the heat for it.

1501
01:25:06,150 --> 01:25:11,470
But if if that is a human life,
which I believe it is, it would

1502
01:25:11,470 --> 01:25:15,550
be a lot like saying, well,
Hitler did a lot of good things

1503
01:25:15,550 --> 01:25:18,150
except for the Holocaust, right?
No, no, no.

1504
01:25:18,190 --> 01:25:22,270
The Holocaust is enough to
cancel out the VW Bug and the

1505
01:25:22,270 --> 01:25:25,750
Autobahn, right.
So let's let's just get that out

1506
01:25:25,750 --> 01:25:27,990
of the way that not not all
things are equal.

1507
01:25:29,150 --> 01:25:30,550
Yeah.
But we're seeing the kind of

1508
01:25:30,550 --> 01:25:33,710
political intrigue.
And the truth of the matter is

1509
01:25:33,710 --> 01:25:40,230
Trump exposed a lot of this.
He exposed the media for their

1510
01:25:40,230 --> 01:25:42,910
hypocrisy and then he, you know,
he exposed the left.

1511
01:25:42,910 --> 01:25:45,630
The left lost their minds over
Trump.

1512
01:25:45,670 --> 01:25:49,070
We found out that we found
people like Elon Musk, who

1513
01:25:49,070 --> 01:25:51,310
always consider himself a
liberal, suddenly saying, well,

1514
01:25:51,310 --> 01:25:54,430
I guess I'm a conservative now
because I'm not, you know, he's

1515
01:25:54,430 --> 01:25:57,310
he's shown some light there on
the left and what we saw was

1516
01:25:57,780 --> 01:25:59,740
pretty scary.
That happened because of Trump.

1517
01:26:01,460 --> 01:26:03,900
But let's go back to what you
were talking about, about

1518
01:26:03,900 --> 01:26:05,940
intent, right?
Yeah.

1519
01:26:06,140 --> 01:26:10,260
I don't think Trump was ever
about I'm going to save America.

1520
01:26:10,380 --> 01:26:13,140
I think he was about I'm going
to save America and I'm going to

1521
01:26:13,140 --> 01:26:17,060
look so good doing it, right?
And I think that was kind of the

1522
01:26:17,500 --> 01:26:21,660
his, his arch there exactly.
And now it it puts us in a

1523
01:26:21,660 --> 01:26:24,100
situation if we have made an
idol out of him, it puts us in

1524
01:26:24,100 --> 01:26:27,670
the situation of saying hey, is
he going to shine a light on us?

1525
01:26:28,670 --> 01:26:32,870
Are we are we going to find out
what us as conservatives really

1526
01:26:32,870 --> 01:26:36,230
believe?
Are we are we going to stand for

1527
01:26:36,230 --> 01:26:39,550
for our principles on this.
And because here's the thing.

1528
01:26:39,550 --> 01:26:43,150
I mean Trump ran.
I I don't believe Trump ever was

1529
01:26:43,270 --> 01:26:46,870
honestly pro-life.
His past.

1530
01:26:46,870 --> 01:26:49,870
He was pro abortion.
He was he he was honest though

1531
01:26:49,910 --> 01:26:53,680
in a degree that he made a deal
and said hey I'll be your

1532
01:26:53,680 --> 01:26:57,480
conservative champion and hear
the ground rules and I'll be,

1533
01:26:57,480 --> 01:27:01,560
I'll be anti abortion and I will
be you know we're going to build

1534
01:27:01,560 --> 01:27:02,920
a wall.
We're going to deal with the

1535
01:27:02,920 --> 01:27:06,200
immigration crisis.
We're going to deal with all of

1536
01:27:06,200 --> 01:27:13,080
these issues and we said okay we
accept we accept those terms And

1537
01:27:13,080 --> 01:27:16,320
he for the most part I think he,
he did his best to live up to

1538
01:27:16,320 --> 01:27:17,520
every single one of those
things.

1539
01:27:18,200 --> 01:27:21,620
He kept his he kept his side of
that deal but what's going on

1540
01:27:21,620 --> 01:27:23,260
now is he's he's looking to make
a new deal.

1541
01:27:24,140 --> 01:27:28,180
He thinks now that hey I'm I'm
I'm the guy I'm the guy y'all

1542
01:27:28,180 --> 01:27:33,860
love but and now we but but he's
trying to renegotiate the terms

1543
01:27:33,860 --> 01:27:37,540
and I'm sorry for me that that's
a no I can I can respect you you

1544
01:27:37,540 --> 01:27:40,420
know if if that's not your thing
and you still you know support

1545
01:27:40,420 --> 01:27:42,060
that.
But I I, I would just hope that

1546
01:27:42,060 --> 01:27:45,500
we're not making an idol out of
him, because I'm afraid that we

1547
01:27:45,500 --> 01:27:47,540
are singing that too, because
that's the other thing, this

1548
01:27:47,540 --> 01:27:49,620
thing just broken.
And I'm not seeing a lot of

1549
01:27:50,390 --> 01:27:54,550
prominent conservative talking
heads condemning this.

1550
01:27:56,350 --> 01:28:01,990
I'll be guarantee you if it was,
if it was like if it was Mitt

1551
01:28:01,990 --> 01:28:06,950
Romney who's saying something
like that, it would be everybody

1552
01:28:06,950 --> 01:28:09,510
would be talking about it.
Everybody.

1553
01:28:09,510 --> 01:28:12,150
But these same people who would
be talking about it if it was

1554
01:28:12,150 --> 01:28:17,470
pretty much anybody else are
suddenly like, let's not, we

1555
01:28:17,830 --> 01:28:20,350
don't want to talk about that.
Why?

1556
01:28:20,630 --> 01:28:22,670
Why?
What's going on here?

1557
01:28:23,510 --> 01:28:32,030
Yeah, I remember, I remember I
had real concerns at the RNC,

1558
01:28:32,550 --> 01:28:37,670
the the, the convention when he
was running the first time and

1559
01:28:37,750 --> 01:28:40,070
and he said I will be your
voice.

1560
01:28:40,310 --> 01:28:42,430
And at that point I got a little
nervous.

1561
01:28:42,430 --> 01:28:46,620
I was like well.
We have other ways of getting

1562
01:28:46,620 --> 01:28:50,460
our voice out there, and if
you're going to be my voice, we

1563
01:28:50,460 --> 01:28:52,940
don't see eye to eye on a lot of
things, right?

1564
01:28:53,380 --> 01:28:55,700
How are you going to be a voice
for everybody?

1565
01:28:55,780 --> 01:28:57,820
That doesn't work.
Yeah.

1566
01:28:58,060 --> 01:29:00,460
No, I hear you.
I was very, very skeptical the

1567
01:29:00,580 --> 01:29:02,380
the the first term, you know,
second time I was.

1568
01:29:02,420 --> 01:29:04,180
I felt very comfortable voting
for him, though.

1569
01:29:04,340 --> 01:29:05,500
I did.
I did too.

1570
01:29:05,660 --> 01:29:07,660
I did too.
He proved me wrong his first

1571
01:29:07,660 --> 01:29:09,060
term.
I'll be fair.

1572
01:29:09,060 --> 01:29:11,660
He did a lot of stuff that
didn't make sense politically.

1573
01:29:12,130 --> 01:29:15,810
That seemed to be almost a
principled stand, right?

1574
01:29:15,810 --> 01:29:18,770
And I can think back to moving
the embassy to Jerusalem.

1575
01:29:19,570 --> 01:29:22,610
That was that was he repented
and I'd say he repented of his

1576
01:29:22,610 --> 01:29:24,490
mistakes too.
You know at one point he was

1577
01:29:24,490 --> 01:29:29,370
kind of going on a on a on a on
an anti gun angle over and then

1578
01:29:29,370 --> 01:29:32,130
he sat down with some people and
they kind of explained the

1579
01:29:32,130 --> 01:29:36,370
Second Amendment to him and and
what conservatives think of the

1580
01:29:36,370 --> 01:29:38,690
Second Amendment and he and he
came back and said okay, never

1581
01:29:38,690 --> 01:29:40,490
mind.
Yeah, yeah.

1582
01:29:40,970 --> 01:29:44,760
No, he he he did it.
And that's very, very honorable,

1583
01:29:45,920 --> 01:29:48,960
very honorable in that regards.
But we for the fact that within

1584
01:29:48,960 --> 01:29:51,160
his personal life, there's
issues and I don't think that

1585
01:29:51,160 --> 01:29:53,120
disqualifies in premium press,
just like you were saying you

1586
01:29:53,120 --> 01:29:55,400
could never run.
Well, here's the thing.

1587
01:29:55,400 --> 01:29:59,440
It matters is where you're at
now, not where you used to be.

1588
01:30:00,160 --> 01:30:02,640
And that holds true if you've
got a checkered past.

1589
01:30:02,640 --> 01:30:06,840
I believe, I believe that we are
required to forgive all men.

1590
01:30:07,520 --> 01:30:11,280
But that also holds true.
If you've got a fabulous past,

1591
01:30:11,640 --> 01:30:14,800
if you've got a shining
reputation, doesn't matter how

1592
01:30:14,800 --> 01:30:18,240
great you were then.
What matters is where are you at

1593
01:30:18,720 --> 01:30:20,880
today?
And that's what you judge.

1594
01:30:20,920 --> 01:30:25,320
Not, not hold on to this
idolatry of of the good done

1595
01:30:25,320 --> 01:30:27,880
before because that that that
does become an idol.

1596
01:30:28,320 --> 01:30:32,800
So here among the knee fights,
there's this huge cumulative

1597
01:30:32,800 --> 01:30:37,160
event happening as the people
are recognizing that their

1598
01:30:37,160 --> 01:30:38,480
institutions are kind of
cheating.

1599
01:30:39,160 --> 01:30:40,920
They're not being honest.
They're not being upfront.

1600
01:30:40,920 --> 01:30:46,040
First, first the church falls
apart and now this crap's going

1601
01:30:46,040 --> 01:30:49,040
on in their government and it's
been exposed.

1602
01:30:49,080 --> 01:30:52,880
And I mean, I I would say in a
way that is very similar to

1603
01:30:52,880 --> 01:30:55,720
maybe the election fraud where
it was just done out in the

1604
01:30:55,720 --> 01:31:00,360
open, it's so in your face.
It doesn't take a lot of effort

1605
01:31:00,520 --> 01:31:03,920
to look into that, to see all
kinds of undeniable red flags,

1606
01:31:03,920 --> 01:31:07,240
things that cannot be explained,
that have no reasonable

1607
01:31:07,240 --> 01:31:10,130
explanation other than rampant
fraud.

1608
01:31:10,490 --> 01:31:12,210
Right.
It was done right in front of

1609
01:31:12,210 --> 01:31:15,330
our faces.
And and whether you believe that

1610
01:31:15,330 --> 01:31:19,170
Biden had enough votes to win or
not is inconsequential.

1611
01:31:19,450 --> 01:31:24,650
The fact that there was fraud
taking place is enough.

1612
01:31:25,370 --> 01:31:28,210
Is enough to say maybe we need
to take a second look at how

1613
01:31:28,210 --> 01:31:31,290
we're doing this right.
Yeah, when you break the rules,

1614
01:31:31,290 --> 01:31:32,810
that's the thing.
Just even breaking the rules.

1615
01:31:32,810 --> 01:31:35,810
And we're going to, we're going
to stop counting votes, kick out

1616
01:31:35,810 --> 01:31:39,050
the the watchdogs and then start
again in the middle of the

1617
01:31:39,050 --> 01:31:43,690
night.
That's what what other reason

1618
01:31:43,690 --> 01:31:47,970
would you have to do that that's
that's suspicious and that's

1619
01:31:48,050 --> 01:31:53,770
that destroys our faith in our
institutions and that is what

1620
01:31:53,770 --> 01:31:56,330
happened in the knee fights.
I think their faith was tested.

1621
01:31:56,450 --> 01:31:59,530
And with the church gone, you
got to realize their

1622
01:31:59,530 --> 01:32:02,570
governmental institution is a
lot too large to be all that

1623
01:32:02,570 --> 01:32:06,290
they've got left.
They're putting their faith in

1624
01:32:06,290 --> 01:32:07,770
that government.
That's what's holding things

1625
01:32:07,770 --> 01:32:09,610
together, That's what's keeping
things sane.

1626
01:32:09,610 --> 01:32:12,930
And all of a sudden they just
said, Oh my gosh, our government

1627
01:32:13,490 --> 01:32:16,890
is against us.
We just saw horrible crimes

1628
01:32:16,890 --> 01:32:23,610
committed and basically they get
away with it now in seven.

1629
01:32:23,610 --> 01:32:26,010
It clarifies, you know, and
behold, I will show unto you

1630
01:32:26,010 --> 01:32:29,710
that they did not establish a
king over the land, but in the

1631
01:32:29,710 --> 01:32:33,150
same year, yay, the 30th year,
they did destroy upon the

1632
01:32:33,150 --> 01:32:35,270
judgments.
He did murder the chief judge of

1633
01:32:35,270 --> 01:32:38,230
the land.
And the people were divided one

1634
01:32:38,230 --> 01:32:40,070
against another.
And they did separate one from

1635
01:32:40,070 --> 01:32:42,990
another into tribes, every man
according to his family and his

1636
01:32:42,990 --> 01:32:45,550
kindred and friends.
And thus they did destroy the

1637
01:32:45,550 --> 01:32:49,310
government of the land, and
every tribe did appoint a chief

1638
01:32:49,390 --> 01:32:52,350
or a leader over them.
And thus they became tribes and

1639
01:32:52,350 --> 01:32:55,340
leaders of tribes.
Now behold, there was no man

1640
01:32:55,340 --> 01:32:57,860
among them, save he had much
family and many kindreds and

1641
01:32:57,860 --> 01:32:59,420
friends.
Therefore their tribes became

1642
01:32:59,420 --> 01:33:03,220
exceedingly great.
We're seeing society fracture.

1643
01:33:04,380 --> 01:33:06,580
It's it.
It's coming apart at the seams.

1644
01:33:06,580 --> 01:33:10,420
The church isn't where it needs
to be for them.

1645
01:33:11,100 --> 01:33:15,580
Their government is just
completely falling apart.

1646
01:33:15,660 --> 01:33:20,890
And then the people turn against
each other and they find, they

1647
01:33:20,890 --> 01:33:23,370
find basically these little
tribes.

1648
01:33:23,450 --> 01:33:24,890
You know, you can also say
cults.

1649
01:33:26,690 --> 01:33:30,090
And you know, you might ask
yourself, so which of these,

1650
01:33:30,090 --> 01:33:32,570
which of these cults was the the
true cult?

1651
01:33:32,570 --> 01:33:35,490
Right.
Which of these, which of these

1652
01:33:35,490 --> 01:33:40,530
tribes was the right tribe?
Well, it says that, you know,

1653
01:33:41,160 --> 01:33:43,720
these and the regulation of the
governments were destroyed

1654
01:33:43,720 --> 01:33:45,600
because of the secret
combination and the friends of

1655
01:33:45,600 --> 01:33:47,440
those who murdered the prophets.
And they did cause a great

1656
01:33:47,440 --> 01:33:49,920
contention in the land and so
much that the more righteous

1657
01:33:49,920 --> 01:33:52,480
part of the people had nearly
all become wicked.

1658
01:33:52,760 --> 01:33:55,720
Yay, they were but few righteous
men among them.

1659
01:33:55,720 --> 01:33:58,840
And it's interesting, it talks
about a dog returning to his

1660
01:33:58,840 --> 01:34:02,240
vomit, which reminds me of
Isaiah saying, you know, there's

1661
01:34:02,240 --> 01:34:07,960
vomit upon all the tables.
It's it's a situation where when

1662
01:34:07,960 --> 01:34:11,000
you're in that place who do you
trust?

1663
01:34:12,120 --> 01:34:16,880
Who do you trust?
Well what these people did is

1664
01:34:16,880 --> 01:34:18,640
they trusted themselves.
They found strong men to be

1665
01:34:18,640 --> 01:34:19,880
their lead.
They found idols.

1666
01:34:20,360 --> 01:34:23,320
They found idols.
Set those idols up and said

1667
01:34:23,320 --> 01:34:27,840
we'll follow you.
You're our guy and you know I, I

1668
01:34:27,840 --> 01:34:30,000
look at that today and I can, I
can see this.

1669
01:34:30,320 --> 01:34:32,720
You know we've got the ETQ
tribe.

1670
01:34:32,920 --> 01:34:36,570
We've got the Ultra Maga tribe.
We've got to a certain degree

1671
01:34:36,570 --> 01:34:39,090
with there's the there's the Tim
Ballard the Operation

1672
01:34:39,090 --> 01:34:43,370
Underground Railroad tribe.
And just because some of these

1673
01:34:43,370 --> 01:34:46,730
tribes, I mean I imagine some of
these tribes probably tried to

1674
01:34:46,730 --> 01:34:49,850
do a decent job of of being just
and equitable and all that,

1675
01:34:49,850 --> 01:34:51,570
right.
I mean I mean there was a secret

1676
01:34:51,570 --> 01:34:53,650
combination tribe too actually
interestingly enough.

1677
01:34:56,290 --> 01:35:00,130
But what the people, what the
people didn't do is they didn't

1678
01:35:00,130 --> 01:35:04,470
repent and turn to Christ.
They fragmented into tribes and

1679
01:35:04,470 --> 01:35:07,750
split apart.
And that's why I'm concerned

1680
01:35:07,750 --> 01:35:10,310
that, you know, I think that
what we're seeing right now is

1681
01:35:10,310 --> 01:35:17,710
only going to get worse and the
more the like it shined on these

1682
01:35:17,710 --> 01:35:19,510
things.
As more as more of this gets

1683
01:35:19,510 --> 01:35:25,710
exposed, we're going to see more
and more fragmentation and a

1684
01:35:25,710 --> 01:35:30,480
greater desperation for people
to find something, to hold on,

1685
01:35:30,480 --> 01:35:35,000
to find some somewhere, somehow.
I don't care if it's a it might

1686
01:35:35,000 --> 01:35:38,440
not be a golden cap.
It might be a it might be a what

1687
01:35:38,440 --> 01:35:39,760
are those?
Those circus cookies?

1688
01:35:41,200 --> 01:35:44,680
It might be an animal cracker.
But heck, at least it's it's

1689
01:35:44,680 --> 01:35:48,240
kind of golden color.
And in my pocket.

1690
01:35:48,240 --> 01:35:52,160
I mean, you know the extent.
Yeah, go ahead.

1691
01:35:52,600 --> 01:35:59,680
Sorry, I was going to say I.
I remember probably 3-4 months

1692
01:35:59,680 --> 01:36:07,480
ago in in my in my prayers.
I remember asking the Lord I I

1693
01:36:07,480 --> 01:36:09,040
should say it was a little
longer than that.

1694
01:36:09,040 --> 01:36:12,520
It's been about a year ago.
It's when I lost my job because

1695
01:36:12,520 --> 01:36:19,640
of the podcast and I had to ask
the question, where do I go?

1696
01:36:19,640 --> 01:36:22,440
What do I do?
Lead me to a good spot Father.

1697
01:36:23,280 --> 01:36:26,800
And I got an answer back I
wasn't expecting, which is.

1698
01:36:27,940 --> 01:36:32,100
Everything man has built without
me will surely crumble.

1699
01:36:32,100 --> 01:36:36,620
It will surely come apart at the
seams.

1700
01:36:37,500 --> 01:36:41,180
And I think we're just entering
that time now, Justin, Where?

1701
01:36:41,780 --> 01:36:44,740
And we're starting to see it.
Everything we thought was solid

1702
01:36:45,780 --> 01:36:51,540
is now coming undone.
And those structures of men are

1703
01:36:51,540 --> 01:36:54,740
going to start coming down and
all the perceived.

1704
01:36:55,180 --> 01:36:59,020
Security we thought we had in
those structures of men will

1705
01:36:59,020 --> 01:37:06,500
continue to come apart and I
think the only solution is fix

1706
01:37:06,580 --> 01:37:11,820
your bearings on Christ and be
rooted in truth and principle

1707
01:37:12,660 --> 01:37:14,980
and not just any truth.
His truth.

1708
01:37:16,020 --> 01:37:18,980
Yeah I'm very I'm, I'm very
concerned about this because I

1709
01:37:19,660 --> 01:37:23,020
the the tendency and what pretty
much happened among the knee

1710
01:37:23,020 --> 01:37:26,650
fights is they were black build.
When all this went down in the

1711
01:37:26,650 --> 01:37:29,610
end they were Blackville.
They they they became nihilistic

1712
01:37:30,490 --> 01:37:33,010
and I don't want to see that
happen.

1713
01:37:33,450 --> 01:37:38,250
I don't want to see that happen
here but there are there are

1714
01:37:38,250 --> 01:37:45,890
people that well in to a certain
degree this is is a great

1715
01:37:45,890 --> 01:37:48,370
opportunity to to repent for and
to be clear too.

1716
01:37:48,690 --> 01:37:50,920
I'm an idolater.
I'm not.

1717
01:37:50,920 --> 01:37:54,560
I'm saying that it's all you
guys out there, whoever you are.

1718
01:37:54,640 --> 01:37:57,200
I don't know who you are.
I I know you're an idolater

1719
01:37:57,280 --> 01:37:58,920
because I'm an idolater.
We all are.

1720
01:37:59,240 --> 01:38:08,400
But but there's a couple really
big idols here, and I think that

1721
01:38:08,400 --> 01:38:11,160
one of the biggest one I'm most
concerned about is the church.

1722
01:38:12,000 --> 01:38:16,160
I think that this stuff going on
with Tim Ballard is shining some

1723
01:38:16,160 --> 01:38:19,110
light there and it's going to
it.

1724
01:38:19,110 --> 01:38:21,270
It's it's burning.
I remember being there.

1725
01:38:21,270 --> 01:38:27,710
It's burdensome to hold on to
that and have to just okay.

1726
01:38:27,950 --> 01:38:29,750
Well, I don't understand what's
going in here.

1727
01:38:29,750 --> 01:38:32,870
Maybe this doesn't seem right,
but and you're holding on

1728
01:38:32,870 --> 01:38:35,550
because that's because that's
where you where you put your

1729
01:38:35,550 --> 01:38:37,830
face and you don't know if
there's anything else.

1730
01:38:38,670 --> 01:38:45,020
It's it's kind of scary to to be
in that situation, but I'm

1731
01:38:45,020 --> 01:38:47,660
concerned that it's the, you
know, the the trees being

1732
01:38:47,660 --> 01:38:49,660
shaken, the fruits going to
fall.

1733
01:38:49,780 --> 01:38:52,100
Where is it going to end up?
Where are people going to go?

1734
01:38:52,260 --> 01:38:55,340
Are people going to end up black
pilled?

1735
01:38:55,340 --> 01:38:58,060
Are they going to go nihilistic?
Are they going to lose faith and

1736
01:38:58,060 --> 01:39:00,460
everything?
Because, I mean, I I was close

1737
01:39:00,860 --> 01:39:05,260
to to doing that at one point in
in my journey when I was reading

1738
01:39:05,260 --> 01:39:09,260
Denver Smart for Stuff.
It was very dark, and it was

1739
01:39:10,100 --> 01:39:13,020
very it would have been very
easy for me to have gotten

1740
01:39:13,020 --> 01:39:15,790
sucked in into that darkness and
giving up hope.

1741
01:39:16,310 --> 01:39:19,830
Right and so.
Let me ask you this question

1742
01:39:19,830 --> 01:39:22,270
because I think this is a
question worth exploring too.

1743
01:39:23,030 --> 01:39:26,670
If you happen to be that person,
whether you're in the LDS church

1744
01:39:26,670 --> 01:39:31,630
or not, and you discover that
that you know what, Okay, maybe

1745
01:39:31,630 --> 01:39:35,070
I've set some people or some
institutions up as idols.

1746
01:39:36,070 --> 01:39:39,710
Once you recognize that, what do
you do next?

1747
01:39:42,480 --> 01:39:44,880
Yeah.
Well I I think actually this is

1748
01:39:44,880 --> 01:39:49,120
the answered in 3rd Nephi in
this story as this continues

1749
01:39:49,120 --> 01:39:51,240
here.
So you know you got the tribes,

1750
01:39:51,240 --> 01:39:53,320
they've got their rules.
None of them are good.

1751
01:39:53,320 --> 01:39:55,080
They're all, they're all stoning
the profits.

1752
01:39:55,840 --> 01:39:57,960
One of the few things, the only
couple things they've got in

1753
01:39:57,960 --> 01:39:59,960
common is they're not going to
open warfare with each other and

1754
01:39:59,960 --> 01:40:01,480
they're not stoning the profits.
But they don't get along.

1755
01:40:01,480 --> 01:40:04,680
They hate each other.
Everybody's polarized,

1756
01:40:04,680 --> 01:40:07,680
everybody's separate.
And it is at this time that says

1757
01:40:07,680 --> 01:40:11,280
a Nephi did minister with power
and with great authority.

1758
01:40:11,880 --> 01:40:14,560
And it came to pass that they
were angry with him even because

1759
01:40:14,560 --> 01:40:17,920
he had greater power than they,
for it were not possible that

1760
01:40:17,920 --> 01:40:22,160
they could disbelieve his words.
That's also like, imagine the

1761
01:40:22,160 --> 01:40:28,560
level of idolatry where you even
absolutely know that that Nephi

1762
01:40:28,560 --> 01:40:32,120
is right here, and that you're
in the wrong, but nonetheless

1763
01:40:32,360 --> 01:40:36,040
nonetheless, you're going to
resist.

1764
01:40:36,240 --> 01:40:38,320
You're going to, you're going to
kick against the pricks.

1765
01:40:41,930 --> 01:40:44,250
For so great was his faith in in
the Lord Jesus Christ that

1766
01:40:44,250 --> 01:40:45,850
angels administer unto him
daily.

1767
01:40:46,850 --> 01:40:53,290
And So what we're seeing here is
we're seeing Nephi rising up

1768
01:40:53,290 --> 01:40:59,450
with power and in the midst of
this turmoil and this is, this

1769
01:40:59,450 --> 01:41:01,770
is, I'll be honest, this is kind
of what I experienced when I,

1770
01:41:01,770 --> 01:41:05,090
when I was in that place.
What one of the things that

1771
01:41:05,090 --> 01:41:11,100
saved me were were Ogden Kraut's
books, because I was in that

1772
01:41:11,100 --> 01:41:13,340
place and I'm just like, OKI
can't trust this anymore.

1773
01:41:13,340 --> 01:41:15,180
Who do I believe?
What do I believe?

1774
01:41:16,580 --> 01:41:21,900
And one of the things that
really jumped out to me was I I

1775
01:41:21,900 --> 01:41:24,300
came across the Ogden Krauts
books and I was reading this and

1776
01:41:24,300 --> 01:41:27,220
I was, and I was reading about
the past and how things used to

1777
01:41:27,220 --> 01:41:28,340
be in the church.
And one of the things that

1778
01:41:28,340 --> 01:41:33,900
really struck hard was this idea
of of that people used to

1779
01:41:33,900 --> 01:41:38,540
receive their endowments and go
home and set up altars in their

1780
01:41:38,540 --> 01:41:41,690
homes and do prayer circles with
their wives.

1781
01:41:46,450 --> 01:41:48,770
They would do prayer circles
with their friends and family,

1782
01:41:50,570 --> 01:41:53,250
those who had received.
Their endowments.

1783
01:41:53,490 --> 01:41:58,410
They left the temple empowered,
endowed with power from, endowed

1784
01:41:58,410 --> 01:42:04,740
with power from on high.
And so that's exactly what I

1785
01:42:04,740 --> 01:42:08,020
felt happened to me in, in a
way, it was, it was terrifying

1786
01:42:08,020 --> 01:42:10,980
and it was scary, But also it
became liberating because I

1787
01:42:10,980 --> 01:42:12,380
realized, wait a minute, you
know what?

1788
01:42:13,460 --> 01:42:16,980
I I believe the Book of Mormon.
I have a testimony of it, and I

1789
01:42:16,980 --> 01:42:19,100
believe in the Restoration.
I believe in the priesthood that

1790
01:42:19,100 --> 01:42:22,540
was restored.
And that priesthood, that

1791
01:42:22,540 --> 01:42:26,660
priesthood that I have received,
entitles me to I can.

1792
01:42:26,660 --> 01:42:29,060
I can hold sacrament.
I can hold sacrament for my

1793
01:42:29,060 --> 01:42:31,580
family whenever I want.
It doesn't even have to be

1794
01:42:31,580 --> 01:42:34,930
Sunday.
If I feel that spiritual

1795
01:42:34,930 --> 01:42:38,290
yearning, I I can do that by the
virtue of the priesthood that

1796
01:42:38,290 --> 01:42:42,530
I've received.
I don't have to live in in in

1797
01:42:42,530 --> 01:42:48,290
some kind of fear and trembling
place of offending God for using

1798
01:42:48,290 --> 01:42:54,090
the priesthood that he gave me
for its intended purpose and and

1799
01:42:54,090 --> 01:42:56,650
the idea of of having an altar
in my home.

1800
01:42:57,570 --> 01:43:00,330
It was liberating.
It was freeing.

1801
01:43:00,890 --> 01:43:04,050
It was full of light.
And you know, there was a

1802
01:43:04,050 --> 01:43:08,530
certain amount of darkness in in
recognizing that I'd made an

1803
01:43:08,530 --> 01:43:11,730
idol of the church.
There's an even greater darkness

1804
01:43:11,770 --> 01:43:16,330
in the deception and
manipulations that I saw in what

1805
01:43:16,330 --> 01:43:21,290
Denver Snuffer had written.
But that left me with, you know,

1806
01:43:22,330 --> 01:43:25,290
darkness or darkness, lesser.
You know, the evil or lesser of

1807
01:43:25,290 --> 01:43:29,140
evil.
It wasn't a We find ourselves to

1808
01:43:29,140 --> 01:43:31,060
that way all the time,
politically find ourselves that

1809
01:43:31,060 --> 01:43:32,860
way all the time, right.
Well, I'm going to vote for this

1810
01:43:32,860 --> 01:43:36,380
guy not because I think he's
right, but he's the lesser of

1811
01:43:36,380 --> 01:43:38,580
two evils.
That's not.

1812
01:43:38,740 --> 01:43:42,820
That's not the gospel.
The gospel is liberating and

1813
01:43:42,820 --> 01:43:46,140
gives us opportunities to choose
the right and to do the things.

1814
01:43:46,140 --> 01:43:52,020
So finding that freedom to kind
of rise up and here's that.

1815
01:43:52,020 --> 01:43:54,500
Here's the thing with idolatry
that also we don't always

1816
01:43:54,500 --> 01:43:57,340
realize.
You got to ask why?

1817
01:43:57,340 --> 01:44:00,580
Why do we have such a tendency
to to make Isles out of things?

1818
01:44:00,780 --> 01:44:03,260
What's our motivation for
creating an idol?

1819
01:44:03,900 --> 01:44:07,020
Well, I think I think we might
have briefly touched upon it

1820
01:44:07,020 --> 01:44:10,860
earlier, but I think one of
those reasons is delegation of

1821
01:44:10,860 --> 01:44:14,820
authority.
You know, if I'm if if Trump's

1822
01:44:14,820 --> 01:44:19,740
my guy and I'm voting for Trump,
then hey, that's like 5.

1823
01:44:19,940 --> 01:44:23,300
That's like a, you know, maybe
about 5 minutes.

1824
01:44:23,300 --> 01:44:25,860
It's many 5 minutes cast a vote.
But you know driving there,

1825
01:44:26,100 --> 01:44:30,740
that's about an hour out of my
out of my day every every four

1826
01:44:30,740 --> 01:44:32,980
years.
I mean, hey that's not, that's

1827
01:44:32,980 --> 01:44:36,100
not that's not much of a price
to pay to save the country, you

1828
01:44:36,100 --> 01:44:40,660
know.
You know 15 minutes an hour

1829
01:44:40,700 --> 01:44:43,700
every once every four years and
and hey, I've done my duty.

1830
01:44:45,740 --> 01:44:55,200
When we create idols, we give
our power, that idol, and we

1831
01:44:55,200 --> 01:44:57,040
give our responsibility to that
idol.

1832
01:44:57,880 --> 01:45:00,360
But there's power there as well,
right?

1833
01:45:01,240 --> 01:45:04,240
And when we take that back,
well, now we've got that

1834
01:45:04,240 --> 01:45:07,000
responsibility again.
Well, it was always there,

1835
01:45:07,000 --> 01:45:08,920
right?
As far as the Lord's concerned,

1836
01:45:09,120 --> 01:45:10,880
we we were never really off the
hook.

1837
01:45:11,160 --> 01:45:14,240
It was never really okay to
just, you know, wash our hands

1838
01:45:14,240 --> 01:45:17,360
of of that, of our
responsibilities.

1839
01:45:17,840 --> 01:45:20,200
But when we take back that
responsibility, we get the power

1840
01:45:20,200 --> 01:45:24,030
back too.
Yeah, and that's the amazing

1841
01:45:24,190 --> 01:45:27,350
thing.
Yeah, I would say this.

1842
01:45:27,350 --> 01:45:30,910
If if you find yourself like, oh
crap, maybe I did make some

1843
01:45:30,910 --> 01:45:34,190
idols out of some people or
institutions I shouldn't have,

1844
01:45:35,430 --> 01:45:38,910
well, you've done the hard part.
You've recognized that yourself

1845
01:45:39,950 --> 01:45:42,590
and that that really is the
hardest part, right?

1846
01:45:42,590 --> 01:45:46,190
So if you're there, if you're at
that point and you're like,

1847
01:45:46,190 --> 01:45:51,140
okay, I I've done this.
Fix your eyes on the Savior,

1848
01:45:51,460 --> 01:45:53,300
right?
I keep going back to that.

1849
01:45:53,300 --> 01:45:55,140
I keep feeling drawn back to
that.

1850
01:45:55,660 --> 01:45:59,660
Fix your eyes on the Savior.
He is your exemplar.

1851
01:46:00,420 --> 01:46:06,780
Next, you open those scriptures,
get rooted in it, especially the

1852
01:46:06,780 --> 01:46:09,660
Book of Mormon, because I think
the Book of Mormon was written

1853
01:46:09,660 --> 01:46:13,420
for, like, this week.
So you're going to want to.

1854
01:46:13,660 --> 01:46:17,420
You're going to want to get into
that and then root yourself

1855
01:46:17,420 --> 01:46:19,710
also.
Get, I shouldn't say root.

1856
01:46:19,990 --> 01:46:24,390
Familiarize yourself with the
Doctrine and Covenants, because

1857
01:46:24,390 --> 01:46:26,950
that'll tell you how the Church
is supposed to operate.

1858
01:46:27,430 --> 01:46:30,630
The Doctrine and Covenants is
one of the most unique books of

1859
01:46:30,630 --> 01:46:35,110
scripture, certainly within
Christen them and probably

1860
01:46:35,110 --> 01:46:41,430
within all of of religious texts
anywhere, because in that book

1861
01:46:41,590 --> 01:46:45,310
it's almost exclusively Joseph
asking a question and then God

1862
01:46:45,310 --> 01:46:47,720
talking to you.
So if you want to know what's

1863
01:46:47,720 --> 01:46:51,000
right or wrong within church,
government and church affairs,

1864
01:46:51,520 --> 01:46:55,160
read the Doctrine and Covenants.
It's got everything in there.

1865
01:46:55,160 --> 01:46:59,200
It's it's the original handbook
for church administration.

1866
01:46:59,640 --> 01:47:02,600
Read that.
That will get you grounded

1867
01:47:02,600 --> 01:47:05,240
there.
Ground yourself in in those

1868
01:47:05,240 --> 01:47:07,480
things.
Keep your eyes fixed on the

1869
01:47:07,480 --> 01:47:09,560
Savior and that's the other
thing.

1870
01:47:10,480 --> 01:47:13,400
And then I also want to touch on
what you said about.

1871
01:47:15,210 --> 01:47:22,370
You can do this yourself.
You don't have to rely on the

1872
01:47:22,370 --> 01:47:26,490
idols, right?
You don't have to rely on the

1873
01:47:26,490 --> 01:47:28,770
Church.
You don't have to rely on men.

1874
01:47:29,210 --> 01:47:36,010
If you have the priesthood, you
have the opportunity to go out

1875
01:47:36,810 --> 01:47:43,210
and teach your family to to
bless the sacrament in your own

1876
01:47:43,210 --> 01:47:45,640
home.
If you don't feel comfortable

1877
01:47:45,640 --> 01:47:52,040
doing that, drop me a line.
I will be more than happy to

1878
01:47:52,040 --> 01:47:55,720
have you worship with me and you
can see how it's done in a home

1879
01:47:55,720 --> 01:47:59,040
setting if you need to.
And then you can go on your way.

1880
01:47:59,760 --> 01:48:05,840
But you are capable and for
heaven's sakes, just do

1881
01:48:05,880 --> 01:48:10,280
something.
Do not abrogate your godgiven

1882
01:48:10,280 --> 01:48:13,160
responsibilities and your
godgiven.

1883
01:48:16,250 --> 01:48:21,090
Abilities to to anyone else take
charge of that.

1884
01:48:21,330 --> 01:48:23,410
You're responsible for your
family.

1885
01:48:24,130 --> 01:48:27,890
I I don't think there's going to
be much of A leg for us to stand

1886
01:48:27,890 --> 01:48:34,130
on if we pass this life and
we're on the other side and

1887
01:48:34,130 --> 01:48:37,330
we're found wanting and we said
well we just we just followed

1888
01:48:37,330 --> 01:48:39,690
that guy we just did what he
did.

1889
01:48:41,570 --> 01:48:44,680
I I don't think that's enough.
I think the Lord's going to say,

1890
01:48:44,680 --> 01:48:48,320
well, I gave you these
scriptures, I gave you these

1891
01:48:48,320 --> 01:48:52,160
examples.
Did you not think to crack the

1892
01:48:52,160 --> 01:48:55,480
book once in a while?
I mean, check the owner's

1893
01:48:55,480 --> 01:49:02,160
manual.
Yeah, along with that, you know,

1894
01:49:02,400 --> 01:49:05,320
it's we're we're facing troubled
times.

1895
01:49:05,640 --> 01:49:09,760
I think everybody knows it.
And it's the ideal.

1896
01:49:09,760 --> 01:49:11,520
Gives a false sense of security,
right?

1897
01:49:12,160 --> 01:49:14,600
It gets a fault, but it is a
fault security.

1898
01:49:14,600 --> 01:49:17,440
And if you've hitched your if
you end up pitching your wagon

1899
01:49:17,440 --> 01:49:21,320
to it, to it, to an idol, you
will be disappointed eventually.

1900
01:49:21,800 --> 01:49:23,600
It will disappoint you.
So it's not even a real

1901
01:49:23,600 --> 01:49:27,000
security, but it it's scary and
it can be overwhelming to think,

1902
01:49:27,000 --> 01:49:29,160
wait, I've got to do all of this
myself.

1903
01:49:29,920 --> 01:49:31,960
What about what there's food
shortages?

1904
01:49:31,960 --> 01:49:33,400
What if COVID mandates come
back?

1905
01:49:33,400 --> 01:49:35,280
What if, What if?
What if?

1906
01:49:35,360 --> 01:49:38,920
Well, yeah, and those things
probably are going to happen.

1907
01:49:39,200 --> 01:49:42,870
And that's scary.
That can be very, very

1908
01:49:42,870 --> 01:49:46,190
terrifying And that's I think
that's one of the reasons why

1909
01:49:46,190 --> 01:49:48,630
it's it's so it's a lot easier
to just say hey somebody else

1910
01:49:48,630 --> 01:49:50,950
will take care of it for me.
I'm not going to worry about it

1911
01:49:51,310 --> 01:49:54,870
because it's overwhelming and
you might be afraid.

1912
01:49:54,870 --> 01:49:56,670
I don't.
I don't want to do this because

1913
01:49:56,670 --> 01:50:02,670
what if I make a mistake?
Well, yes, you will make

1914
01:50:02,670 --> 01:50:06,030
mistakes and and you and you're
not going to be ready for the

1915
01:50:06,030 --> 01:50:08,410
challenges that come.
You're just not.

1916
01:50:08,410 --> 01:50:10,970
That's that's not how.
But that's not how God's plan

1917
01:50:10,970 --> 01:50:12,370
works.
God does have a plan.

1918
01:50:12,810 --> 01:50:15,410
It's like having a kid.
No one's ever really ready.

1919
01:50:15,690 --> 01:50:19,010
Yeah, it's like being a parent.
You're never going to be ready

1920
01:50:19,010 --> 01:50:21,730
no matter how long you wait.
It's not going to.

1921
01:50:22,250 --> 01:50:23,610
You're not going to be more
ready.

1922
01:50:24,450 --> 01:50:28,210
But what you find out is you
might not be ready, but hey,

1923
01:50:28,370 --> 01:50:31,730
you've got this.
You can do this.

1924
01:50:31,730 --> 01:50:33,770
The Lord qualifies those who he
calls.

1925
01:50:34,170 --> 01:50:37,850
It's really easy to look at
Moses and think, man, now what

1926
01:50:37,850 --> 01:50:44,650
an amazing prophet Moses was.
Moses was a man just like you.

1927
01:50:46,290 --> 01:50:51,210
He wasn't extra special.
What made him special was his

1928
01:50:51,210 --> 01:50:55,210
willingness to listen to the
Lord and just follow that.

1929
01:50:55,610 --> 01:50:58,210
That's what made him special.
He was special because he was

1930
01:50:58,210 --> 01:51:00,450
weak.
Not because he was powerful.

1931
01:51:00,450 --> 01:51:01,810
Not because he had it all
figured out.

1932
01:51:01,810 --> 01:51:05,570
Not because he had seven years,
food storage, 10 million guns

1933
01:51:06,330 --> 01:51:10,090
and and A and a Fallout Shelter
in his backyard.

1934
01:51:11,010 --> 01:51:14,090
That's not how he did it.
He was unprepared.

1935
01:51:14,890 --> 01:51:17,250
He was weak.
He was wandering the desert.

1936
01:51:17,250 --> 01:51:19,130
He was exiled.
He was cast out.

1937
01:51:19,130 --> 01:51:23,130
He had a stutter.
And that's exactly why the Lord

1938
01:51:23,130 --> 01:51:27,890
called him.
And I'm willing to bet everybody

1939
01:51:28,370 --> 01:51:30,770
who's listening to this, if you
really listen, the Lord's

1940
01:51:30,770 --> 01:51:33,410
calling you.
The Lord is calling you.

1941
01:51:34,180 --> 01:51:36,820
He's asking you stand up.
There's something you can do.

1942
01:51:37,620 --> 01:51:39,540
Like Dave said, something,
anything.

1943
01:51:40,060 --> 01:51:43,180
And maybe you're not so sure
That's okay.

1944
01:51:43,180 --> 01:51:45,780
You don't have to be.
Maybe.

1945
01:51:45,780 --> 01:51:48,740
Maybe you'll maybe you're here
wrong and it's not and it and

1946
01:51:48,740 --> 01:51:50,980
it's not right doesn't work out.
That's okay too.

1947
01:51:51,220 --> 01:51:53,860
That's okay.
You're not going to offend God

1948
01:51:54,740 --> 01:51:58,020
by trying to do what you believe
he wants him to do.

1949
01:51:58,020 --> 01:52:00,700
If you keep your heart sincere,
you keep your eye single to his

1950
01:52:00,700 --> 01:52:03,030
glory.
I'm not saying you're not going

1951
01:52:03,030 --> 01:52:04,430
to screw up.
I'm not going to say you're not

1952
01:52:04,430 --> 01:52:06,110
going to make mistakes.
I'm not going to say it's not

1953
01:52:06,110 --> 01:52:10,630
scary, but it's okay, and the
Lord makes it right.

1954
01:52:10,630 --> 01:52:15,310
He makes up for our differences.
And and just the very act of

1955
01:52:15,310 --> 01:52:19,910
trying, just the very act of
doing something, usually the

1956
01:52:19,910 --> 01:52:22,630
Lord starts opening doors for
you, right?

1957
01:52:22,910 --> 01:52:25,190
You and I were talking about
that on the phone today.

1958
01:52:26,050 --> 01:52:28,490
When?
When I decided I was going to do

1959
01:52:28,490 --> 01:52:31,130
something, when I was done
pissing and moaning to God

1960
01:52:31,130 --> 01:52:34,770
about, I didn't want to do XY&Z
and I just did it.

1961
01:52:35,650 --> 01:52:38,010
All of a sudden there were
people that came out of the

1962
01:52:38,010 --> 01:52:41,050
woodwork to help me out.
There were opportunities that

1963
01:52:41,050 --> 01:52:45,290
presented themselves, but that
didn't happen until I did some.

1964
01:52:45,490 --> 01:52:48,090
Let's go back to Moses, because
I think that's a great example.

1965
01:52:48,090 --> 01:52:52,050
Again, he's cast out of Egypt.
He wanders around.

1966
01:52:52,410 --> 01:52:55,010
When does things get start to
get better for him?

1967
01:52:55,370 --> 01:52:58,930
When he acts on behalf of
Jethro's daughters at the well,

1968
01:53:00,490 --> 01:53:04,250
he acts that one time.
And then what happens all the

1969
01:53:04,250 --> 01:53:08,410
sudden he, you know, becomes
married to Zapora.

1970
01:53:08,890 --> 01:53:11,930
Then he receives A priesthood
from his brother, from his

1971
01:53:12,130 --> 01:53:16,530
Fatherinlaw and Jethro.
Then he becomes a herdsman, and

1972
01:53:16,530 --> 01:53:22,570
then God's talking to him.
And then he goes, and he

1973
01:53:22,570 --> 01:53:26,630
delivers, he he with the Lord.
Through the Lord's power, he

1974
01:53:26,630 --> 01:53:31,910
delivers Egypt K But that's all
centered on Moses taking that

1975
01:53:31,910 --> 01:53:37,230
one opportunity to do something
after he's lost it all.

1976
01:53:38,550 --> 01:53:44,430
So just do something, even if
even if you don't feel like

1977
01:53:44,550 --> 01:53:48,590
you're ready to, or or that you
should leave the church, start

1978
01:53:48,590 --> 01:53:51,630
getting comfortable with doing
those home sacraments again.

1979
01:53:52,240 --> 01:53:54,640
Start getting comfortable with
teaching your kids.

1980
01:53:54,640 --> 01:53:58,480
Again, Do not abrogate that
responsibility and quite

1981
01:53:58,480 --> 01:54:02,800
frankly, that blessing to
anybody else.

1982
01:54:04,360 --> 01:54:10,680
I was in the church during COVID
for a small time early on.

1983
01:54:10,680 --> 01:54:14,200
Well, no, I can't say that I was
out before then, but.

1984
01:54:15,030 --> 01:54:18,150
It was during that same time in
COVID where I was watching

1985
01:54:18,150 --> 01:54:24,110
certain people really dwindling
in in disbelief and activity in

1986
01:54:24,110 --> 01:54:27,270
the gospel.
Mine stayed pretty consistent.

1987
01:54:27,270 --> 01:54:30,990
In fact, it ramped up because
now my kids, well, they could

1988
01:54:30,990 --> 01:54:35,670
ask me anything because I'm, I'm
just their dad, right?

1989
01:54:35,710 --> 01:54:40,590
And so we had some very profound
gospel conversations, because it

1990
01:54:40,590 --> 01:54:43,870
was just him, you know, me and
the kids and and and their mom.

1991
01:54:45,480 --> 01:54:48,520
So, so get used to that.
There's blessings to be found

1992
01:54:48,520 --> 01:54:49,520
there.
Not only is there

1993
01:54:49,520 --> 01:54:53,840
responsibility, there's
blessings, but do something and

1994
01:54:53,840 --> 01:54:55,360
there's power.
There really is.

1995
01:54:55,360 --> 01:54:57,040
The Lord qualifies those He
calls.

1996
01:54:57,160 --> 01:55:00,840
And if you're willing it, if
you're willing to put in the

1997
01:55:00,840 --> 01:55:05,520
effort, I I am 100% confident.
Lord's got your back.

1998
01:55:06,160 --> 01:55:08,920
He's always had mine and I've
screwed up and I've made

1999
01:55:08,920 --> 01:55:12,660
mistakes.
I even like, completely

2000
01:55:12,660 --> 01:55:15,820
misunderstood what God wanted me
to do at times and he didn't

2001
01:55:15,820 --> 01:55:17,860
condemn me.
He wasn't offended and said,

2002
01:55:17,860 --> 01:55:22,140
hey, I don't want anything to do
with you anymore because you

2003
01:55:22,140 --> 01:55:24,700
screwed up on this issue.
Should have left it.

2004
01:55:24,700 --> 01:55:27,220
You should have followed some
other guy and let let him, let

2005
01:55:27,220 --> 01:55:31,140
him bear that burden.
No, the Lord took me back into

2006
01:55:31,140 --> 01:55:35,820
his arms.
So you got we've got nothing to

2007
01:55:35,820 --> 01:55:38,220
lose.
There's there's nothing to lose

2008
01:55:38,260 --> 01:55:43,570
and there's so much to gain and
and the world, the Lord needs

2009
01:55:43,570 --> 01:55:44,890
us.
So that's the world.

2010
01:55:45,490 --> 01:55:47,330
And if if you look, if you're
looking around in the world

2011
01:55:47,330 --> 01:55:51,850
today and it breaks your heart
seeing the suffering and and and

2012
01:55:51,850 --> 01:55:53,610
the tragedies that are
happening.

2013
01:55:53,770 --> 01:55:57,370
You know we've got people sick
and losing family members to

2014
01:55:57,370 --> 01:56:02,530
COVID or vaccines.
We've got these children being

2015
01:56:02,530 --> 01:56:06,010
taken from parents and and the
horrible things being done to

2016
01:56:06,010 --> 01:56:08,290
children.
If you're looking around in the

2017
01:56:08,290 --> 01:56:12,180
world and that and that bothers
you, you know with an I single

2018
01:56:12,180 --> 01:56:15,900
to God's glory you can, you can
make a difference.

2019
01:56:17,540 --> 01:56:19,820
I think the Lord, I think the
Lord's calling you.

2020
01:56:21,020 --> 01:56:23,620
If those things are important to
you, and they and they touch

2021
01:56:23,620 --> 01:56:25,060
your heart, I think the Lord's
calling you.

2022
01:56:25,940 --> 01:56:28,340
Absolutely.
Just don't make an idol out of

2023
01:56:28,340 --> 01:56:29,700
it.
That's that leads to.

2024
01:56:30,180 --> 01:56:32,940
That's the only way you screw
that up.

2025
01:56:33,380 --> 01:56:36,140
And even if you do, though, you
can still repent.

2026
01:56:36,540 --> 01:56:40,960
Yeah, so.
It's what we're here to do.

2027
01:56:41,080 --> 01:56:45,120
We're here to figure stuff out.
Figure out who we are and figure

2028
01:56:45,120 --> 01:56:47,760
out if you know, well,
ultimately, are we Are we going

2029
01:56:47,760 --> 01:56:49,440
to do the things the Lord tells
us to do?

2030
01:56:49,560 --> 01:56:51,200
And again, another perfect
example.

2031
01:56:51,200 --> 01:56:53,320
Nephi, right.
Go and get those plates.

2032
01:56:54,040 --> 01:56:56,600
Right.
He wasn't qualified to do that.

2033
01:56:56,600 --> 01:57:00,160
He wasn't prepared to do that.
No, you're talking about a

2034
01:57:00,160 --> 01:57:02,280
military operation.
Yeah.

2035
01:57:03,680 --> 01:57:05,560
I can't imagine anything more
terrifying.

2036
01:57:06,120 --> 01:57:08,440
Personally, I don't think I
would have handled it as well as

2037
01:57:08,440 --> 01:57:09,970
Nephi did.
But hey, you know what?

2038
01:57:09,970 --> 01:57:13,530
Even that's okay.
And if I didn't have it all

2039
01:57:13,530 --> 01:57:15,290
figured out, he didn't have a
plan.

2040
01:57:15,330 --> 01:57:17,610
Well, he did have a plan.
And what What happened?

2041
01:57:18,010 --> 01:57:21,490
Oh, it it he fell on his, he
fell flat on his face.

2042
01:57:21,770 --> 01:57:23,930
You know, let's buy the plates
from him.

2043
01:57:23,970 --> 01:57:27,970
That's a good idea.
Didn't work, but it was a good

2044
01:57:27,970 --> 01:57:30,650
idea.
That's Okay.

2045
01:57:31,130 --> 01:57:33,090
He did something.
It didn't work.

2046
01:57:33,410 --> 01:57:35,830
Something.
And then the Lord didn't work.

2047
01:57:36,110 --> 01:57:37,310
Yeah.
And then the Lord was like,

2048
01:57:37,310 --> 01:57:41,110
okay, you're willing to try?
Now let me give you this.

2049
01:57:41,790 --> 01:57:43,550
Yeah.
Let me show you how I'm glad

2050
01:57:43,550 --> 01:57:46,110
you're willing to try.
Yeah, show you how now.

2051
01:57:46,630 --> 01:57:51,710
Exactly, exactly.
And and and and we have covered

2052
01:57:51,710 --> 01:57:54,670
some dark stuff, right?
But I think the big take away

2053
01:57:54,670 --> 01:57:59,850
should be here is that.
It's vital that you don't

2054
01:57:59,850 --> 01:58:02,570
abrogate your responsibilities
to anybody else.

2055
01:58:02,610 --> 01:58:05,610
Do not make an idol of people or
institutions.

2056
01:58:05,890 --> 01:58:11,410
They're going to fail you.
But it's at the end.

2057
01:58:11,410 --> 01:58:14,650
It's a message of hope because
you you are enough.

2058
01:58:14,770 --> 01:58:17,770
And especially if you're here
listening to Justin and I talk,

2059
01:58:18,130 --> 01:58:20,850
you didn't get here by accident.
You might think it was an

2060
01:58:20,850 --> 01:58:24,730
accident, but you're listening
to this for a reason and I'm

2061
01:58:24,730 --> 01:58:27,490
guessing it's because you got
some work that you got to do.

2062
01:58:28,450 --> 01:58:31,570
Just know the Lord has your back
in that and do something.

2063
01:58:31,930 --> 01:58:36,450
And from there, I promise I can
bear testimony that the doors

2064
01:58:36,450 --> 01:58:40,410
will start opening and the plans
will start coming and you're

2065
01:58:40,410 --> 01:58:42,410
going to make some mistakes
along the way.

2066
01:58:43,490 --> 01:58:48,010
Keep some humor about it, be
humble, and the Lord will see

2067
01:58:48,010 --> 01:58:51,210
you through on it.
Absolutely Amen.

2068
01:58:51,890 --> 01:58:54,810
All right, Justin, as always,
dude.

2069
01:58:55,370 --> 01:59:00,130
It's a good one.
All right, awesome.

2070
01:59:00,210 --> 01:59:03,370
I enjoy having you.
All right, Justin, we'll talk to

2071
01:59:03,370 --> 01:59:04,450
you later.
I love you, big guy.

2072
01:59:04,450 --> 01:59:05,730
All right.
Take care.

2073
01:59:06,250 --> 01:59:30,990
Bye, everybody.
You're listening to the Mormon

2074
01:59:30,990 --> 01:59:32,270
Renegade podcast.