Episode #77: A Plan For Preserving Liberty W/Enoch Moore from Defending Utah

0:05 Happy Independence Day, everybody. Look, I'm not breaking any news here when I tell you that liberty has never been in such a precarious place as it is today. We have bad actors from every walk of life looking to curtail your rights and freedoms and liberty, from big tech to government to publicprivate partnerships. Well, today on this Independence Day, I wanted to find solutions for these problems. And after having this conversation with Enid Moore from defending Utah, I think he has come up with that solution. This will not require a grand, sweeping gesture trying to find some political Messiah or teaming up with a massive national organization. The solution is local, nonviolent, and has its roots in the founding era of this country.

0:46 Look, I told you a few weeks back that I felt like the time for us of being quiet was over. And that we're now in a place where we have to act. Stick around for a conversation that should not only excite you, but also give you hope that we the people still have the chance to save liberty for our children. That's next on this Independence Day episode of the Mormon Renegade podcast. Look, it's no secret that our society has become much more crude and coarse to become and raise men and women of virtue and characters, a Herculean task. To help with this, I've recently wrote and published a book. Now, back in the 1700s, Washington had a book called Rules of Civility and Decent Behavior and Company and Conversation. It was a book with 110 rules that talked about how to conduct yourself like a civilized person in society, something that today's society is sorely lacking. What I did is I went back through the book and I reinterpreted his original sayings for the 21st century. So the book is laid out in a way in which you see Washington's original rule.

1:49 Right below that is my explanation for the 21st century, and below that you'll find two or three examples of where to use this in the real world. Now, to go along with this, there's a workbook that helps parents teach these principles and practices to their kids. To find the book, go to mormonrenegade.com, go to the bottom of the page, search out the blog post, and order your copy. Today, I can bear personal testimony from personal experience. That this is an invaluable tool to help you raise men and women of virtue and character. You're listening to the Mormon Renegade podcast. Enoch, it's good to have you back, man. Thanks for having me.

2:54 Good to be back. So last time we talked, you would kind of talked about having an idea, something that would kind of help people get through, I shouldn't say get through, help people be able to kind of combat what is happening within their government. And you weren't quite ready to release that yet and you you wanted to to kind of spruce some things up, if you will. And then release it after you gave a presentation. So that's been done. So I'm, I'm super excited to hear hear what the plan is. So what's the plan? So what is the plan loaded questions. So let's give a little context and yeah, I'll I'll answer any of your questions and get into details. So you know we talked a little bit about the history of defending Utah last time I believe, but just kind of as a as a summary.

3:48 You know, we spent a lot of time laying the spiritual foundation for why the Constitution was important and sacred, right? We've created a film Constitution DV d.com has this film Profits in the Constitution. Just laying the LDS case without a shadow of a doubt that we have a duty to defend the Constitution all the way back from Joseph Smith. To do everyone up until the time you know that we had made it showing that this wasn't even an old thing. It's like even been a consistent message. Generally up to this day and and so we've laid this foundation for the spiritual need, the spiritual requirement as Mormons for us to defend the Constitution. And then we also laid the spiritual foundations about why it's under attack Okay who's trying to destroy the Constitution if we're supposed to defend it. And that's where we put out a lot of content over the years on secret combinations.

4:51 And we have a book, Utah Secret Combinations. And so there's been a lot of tools and resources we put out on the problem, with the problem that we've always presented. We've tried to give some idea of what can we do about it, and that has evolved over the years. What can we do about it? K so that the traditional thing people. Think about when they think, you know, I'm going to make a difference. Well, the first want to learn about their candidates and how do they vote smarter, right? And then they think, well, I can actually go talk to my representatives and tell them I don't like that law, right. Or tell them they shouldn't pass this law, right. And so there's all these layers that a lot of people go through when they're trying to make a difference in local government to promote freedom. And all these things are fine and dandy, but at the end of the day.

5:45 People feel frustrated that things are getting worse still because people have been trying to do good things like this for a very long time and there have been some great successes over the years. In the 60s, you know, we there was a lot of successes nationally on anti communist movements and so there's been ups and downs over the years, but it still seems like the world is heading overall to this, you know, destruction so. If we have a duty to do something to defend the Constitution, the question that a lot of people have after they've tried and they've been burned out and they're done with politics, there's nothing we can do or some people feel like, well, we still should do something. We've documented very well, we have a duty, but what can you do, right?

6:33 Someone can tell you their history of how, you know they spent 30 years supporting some organization and and helping get people elected and you know they're burned out. Right. And so this is something that I've spent a lot of time on as I've seen some successes and failures over the years. Okay, let me stop you right there because I have a few questions here. One question. But we we've seen these movements before, right? We've saw the anti communist movement. And then Reagan comes in and he pushes everything way back on the scale of liberty towards liberty. Yeah. Then you have the Tea Party, and then you have, like, the neocons. They're actually Communists.

7:14 They're Trotskyites. Right, exactly. My question is, is why were these freedom movements not successful? What was it that they were lacking? Well, I think the first movements were definitely dealing with different environments. The environments gotten harder and worse. The conspiracy against the Constitution has grown stronger and more powerful, and definitely as our culture has changed. Culture precedes legislation and so the enemies of liberty use, they go for the culture 1st and then when the culture is ready they pass the things they want to pass just at a high level that that's how they see it. So in the past culture was more on the side of liberty even though we still had you know issues from time to time. And also I think in the past there was not an understanding depends how far back you go but an understanding of. What is the threat to liberty, right. It's this grand conspiracy, which was one of the big gifts of Robert Welch, founder of the John Birch Society, to the world of really labeling that there's this global conspiracy. He called it the communist conspiracy. This was really the the root of the anti communist movement in the 60s and they evolved that to understand, wait, it's not communism, it's actually this greater thing above communism and.

8:36 And so that idea evolved over time and I think even since then it has evolved more which is really a lot of what I've been looking at the last 10 years and why now I've got this plan speak right. So what we were lacking in the past. So actually see it's still since the environment was different it's not necessarily we were lacking things in the past because again there were successes today what we lack. I think still without understanding the enemy of liberty, it's easy to get thrown off, right? So the reason people get burned out, they're begging their legislators to do the right thing. They're they're they're asking their City Council not, you know, to pass that horrible tax.

9:24 They're doing all these things. But the enemies of liberty have their tentacles. Everywhere to where people have loyalties elsewhere. Plus we have the culture that doesn't actually understand the Constitution. So you do get decent people in office from time to time or and they've they've never necessarily studied liberty themselves. Maybe through a Business Association they decided to run because their friend told them to run. Are they, You know there could be so many different reasons why people get involved. So we have the culture that doesn't understand liberty as well and then we have a lack of understanding of the enemies of liberty. Those are kind of two key things, however I want to. So that's like what we've said a lot over the years with defending Utah.

10:08 But I want to kind of take it a step further and say with all the understanding now of how the seeker combinations function and work and where they are and how they get they implement their plans against us, I can say that even without a full understanding. Or maybe even no understanding at all that they exist. You can still we can do something. The founding fathers gave us a pattern. K So I do think that if you're going to get involved in politics, you need to understand how secret combinations work. Otherwise you're going to have no clue what you're really dealing with all the time in the political game. K So they're involved in the politics game all the time. But let's say you don't want to get involved in politics, you just want to.

10:56 Keep the Constitution alive in your neighborhoods. You don't have to fully understand who the enemies of liberties of are or how they work. If you have a full solid understanding of constitutional principles, which I think is incredibly rare even among those that study it, right. And so people need to realize that if you have a full understanding, then you can simply execute. The principles of the Constitution, correctly and properly, and the secret combinations lose their power. Okay. So there is this need. You know, people talk a lot about the Second Coming and there's this, there was this doctrine called the Rapture Cult, or I call it the Rapture Cult, but it's the Rapture that was introduced.

11:50 And we've done a couple presentations over the years on what we call the Rapture Cult. There's a book that came out called that. OK, and it talks about how this doctrine was introduced into Christian society to get people to not be involved in defending liberty. Because who cares if the world is getting evil? It doesn't matter. You know, I want to explore that just for a second. Every time I do a podcast like this one where I'm talking about freedom, issues and liberty, inevitably I get 5 or 6 emails that say what does it matter? What does this have to do with Mormonism? I'm going to tell you why it matters because. Without the protections of the Constitution, especially the Bill of Rights, when you start talking about the 1st Amendment, I can't do this right. I can't have you over in broad daylight to have this conversation because we have the 1st Amendment, because we have those protections.

12:44 We can do it that way. Now I'm certainly willing to meet. Down in a basement somewhere. I'm willing to meet in the back alley to have these conversations, but it makes it real nice when when I can do this and get my voice out there in a very easy way, right? So without it, we're we're just kind of of left floating and hoping for the best. Those guarantees that are made to us in the Constitution allow us to do the things we're doing right here. Also, I would like to say that oftentimes, especially as Mormons, because of the White Horse Prophecy and that sort of thing, which which I I believe in, we have this grand picture that at some point we're just going to ride out of the mountains and save the Constitution. And I firmly believe that at some point that day will come. But first I think what we have to do is we have to save it locally and we got to save it at home first. That's why, one of the reasons why we originally made that film.

13:41 Prophets in the Constitution to just make it unquestionable what the doctrine and the advice and the teachings have always been and that they've addressed all these the like. Ezra Taft Benson was great on addressing the naysayers right. Here's the excuses they give for why it doesn't matter. And then he went and just addressed every point and and that's in our film. So, so so these so kind of this idea of the Rapture cult takes on different forms. And it's so the the the actual doctrine is that as people think, they can just run for the hills, wait for Jesus, and then then they'll join them in Zion, right?

14:24 They'll all be happy in the end. It's the doctrine is that Zion will not be built until secret combinations have been destroyed. Okay. We have a duty to build something because Christ must have a people and a place to come too. If he has nowhere to come, he's not going to come. So, so thinking about this, the Constitution was given to us and inspired as a stepping stone to something greater if we can't master the lower laws, so to speak, meaning working with fellow Americans to. Restore and defend the constitution. Then we are incapable of building Zion. Zion has to exist where a free government exists. So going deep on that would be a sort for another day. But I just wanted to say, in general the constitution matters because we cannot build Zion without establishing freedom. Isaiah chapter one talks about your solemn assemblies. Are the Lord just just annoyed?

15:34 Right with the Israelites for for all their ceremonies and all the religious things that they think they're doing that make them so great when he says but but in your land, your Princess are friends with thieves and the widow, you know that the oppression of the widow, it matters to him that there's corruption in your land and you're allowing it to go on. So if we forego this duty. And we allow all this sorrow and all these bad things to happen in our land, then whatever we do religiously isn't even acceptable to him. We have to be part of creating a free government and know knowing how that works. And that's what the Constitution was. It was a gift from our founding fathers that they gave to us so that then the gospel could roll forth and so on and so forth. So now when I talk about the plan and I say if you can execute the Constitution correctly then. The secret combinations.

16:33 Power dies Okay. This is this is how you and you can't literally. I don't. I don't imagine you could literally destroy them. What does that even mean right. They're just private clubs all across the world and they'll they'll always even have a right to associate privately under any circumstance. So what does that mean? It's destroying their ability for what they do to matter in our local communities and so the founding fathers pattern. It shows us exactly how to do that, Okay. So it takes a little bit to understand, even if you have studied the Constitution your whole lives to really see that power that was given to us and Doctrine and Covenants even talks about, I'm going to read from the DNC here and show you the foundation for this plan, some of these principles, Okay. So a lot of people would say, well, yeah, how about how do we execute the Constitution when it's all corrupt people in office when none of them listen to us, right. Because it feels that way.

17:33 It feels overwhelming. The first thing I'd say is sometimes you don't actually know what's in their hearts. And if we follow the principles and the Doctrine of Covenants, you might find that we have more, I want to say, more friends than you realize or more willing individuals than we realize. But there's some, there's a process to kind of. Figure that out, which is partially my what my handbook does. But let's say the worst case scenario. They're all corrupt. OK, totally corrupt. There's nothing you can do. The founding fathers protected the rights for us to to create something called Committees of Safety. OK, now for the listeners, if anyone wants to pause and sort of get the full background before we talk about this. I have two classes online that built up to this. So when we last met, I hadn't given those classes yet. They're now online and people can watch this. So if you go to defendingutah.org/solutions part one and then you can also go to Solutions Part 2, these are two classes in a row that kind of have have stepped ahead of what we've talked about over the years from just kind of secret combinations in the problem.

18:55 And now I started to summarize in our government how is the problem manifesting. And this has to do a lot with a shadow government that the UN is building and the secret society support using regional government entities. And so I break that down. Solutions Part one and solutions Part 2 then shows introduces the idea of committees of safety and the natural laws. That they're based upon and how they'll work, kind of introducing that idea, Okay. And so if you watch those two, you'll kind of see a much better presentation than me just babbling right now to where I've got slides and power, PowerPoint and pictures, and I've thought very carefully how I walk through so people can follow.

19:40 Are you good if I throw those links in the? Show definitely, Yeah, yeah. Those, those those are links you can chair around. Absolutely. I would like people to see those. And if you feel inspired watching those, please reach out to us, join with us, you know, we'll get these manuals and help us execute this. And I'll tell you some successes that we're already kind of seeing some exciting things in the works. But let me again before we get into all the details. Let's I want to read in Doctrine and Covenants. Okay. So the scripture I read, I read a few different scriptures and I presented at the Book of Mormon Expo a couple months ago as well as well as I presented privately.

20:26 And I am also open to give this as a cottage meeting in people's homes so if people want to reach out and invite their friends. And I would love to teach them about this solution and how it works and how we can defend the Constitution without having to even get people in office. You know, I think that's huge because for a lot of years I was a guy who was kind of looking for someone to fix this, right? And so, like, I remember I was really inspired with with the Tea Party when the Tea Party came along, right? I thought, finally, here we go, we're going to be able to get some stuff done. And a lot of them, not all of them, but a lot of them ended up getting coopted. And it's super frustrating.

21:07 And it feels like every time we send somebody good to Washington, they end up getting, I don't know, stained, I guess by by all the the, the corruption that goes on there. Which is we when we do that. It's a lazy way. To say let's find someone we think we like and maybe it's not lazy when you're trying to get them elected you feel like you worked your tail off but ultimately it's intellectually lazy and but also many of us are ignorant and we think that's our only option. We got to get good guys elected K the John Birch Society did a great job of showing how that's putting the cart before the horse if you don't change the culture K but I'm going to show you know a little more if you've got a if you've got and can gather a small group of good people. You can absolutely restore the rule of the Constitution without without getting any of your buddies elected without having to go through this process okay and and and that's kind of the difference the change and it takes a little bit of thinking of the high level principles and and the manual that I have here in front of us that I brought you a copy of right here. It's it's a lot of.

22:22 Practical tips that are all meant to align with the principles that I'm going to be talking about here and okay so Doctrine and Covenants 123 right Joseph Smith has has been lamenting, says duty of the Saints in relation to their persecutors as written by Joseph Smith the prophet while a prisoner in Liberty Jail. So. See this as also not just a Mormon thing, but here's an example of Joseph Smith understanding the problem from the Saints perspective. Right, All this prosecution and tyranny and oppression that has come upon them, but really, that's what all of America is dealing with right now.

23:05 OK, so so these principles apply neutrally, So he says. And again, we would suggest in verse one we would suggest for your consideration. Gathering up a knowledge of all the facts and suffering and abuses put upon them by the people of this state. So first step he's talking about here is how organized are how how well does. Do we know all the things that have actually even happened to us. Have we documented them? Do we just complain about them? Social media and we move on with our lives. I mean, that's how it is. We complain, we forget the enemies of liberty through the media are really good at. Pushing something and then letting go and maybe even making us happy for a little bit and we don't care. So here he's saying gathering up and understanding the problem is important.

23:55 If we're saying the Constitution's been violated and is and is under threat, can you point to specific details, not just your favorite headline from your favorite, you know, newspaper online, but if you had to go to court and someone said. OK, we'll fix the Constitution. Show us where it's wrong. Could you bring forth something that explains, oh, it's right here, right? It's when this happened, and here's why. Here's the line in the Constitution K How well have we documented? Do we actually understand how it's getting violated? Because I tell you, a lot of times we don't. The headlines are very abstract, a lot of rhetoric. We just feel like something's wrong, Something is wrong.

24:37 But being able to do this is kind of a first step. Gather up the knowledge of all the facts and the sufferings and abuses. Okay. Then also the property that is verse 2 property and amount of damages with that has been sustained personal you know personal injuries real property and the names of all the persons that have had a hand and the oppressions and so forth. So Joseph Smith is saying in the in this so he's talking about gathering all these things in great detail. So what are we going to do with these things once we once we've gathered them let's say you got a stack of papers and. And you've interviewed all the neighbors and you have exact testimony of what they are, of things that have happened.

25:21 Okay. You've created verse four, perhaps a committee. Very interesting word because the founding fathers talked about committees of safety and and this is exactly in line with the same principle, Perhaps the committee can be appointed to find out all these things. Okay. So a research committee take statements and affidavits. Gather up all the libelous publications that are afloat. So affidavits why are what are affidavits? An affidavit is a written statement that is admissible in a court of law.

26:02 So if you go into a court and you raise your right hand and you say, I promise to tell the truth, you're now under oath that that whatever you say is true. And and OS, OK, I said that's, I won't go on a tangent about OS. That was an interesting thought. But like, people can lie under oath. And and it was interesting. People used to take their oath seriously. Like, if someone swore under God, right, It was understood this guy really believes God will punish him if he lies, right? But either way an affidavit is a sworn testimony, not in a courtroom but outside a courtroom. So the money outside of court, because let's say you have a court case and you got to prove your side and you have 100 witnesses, but they all can't show up to the court date at the same time.

26:52 You can gather those testimonies in advance. And when you gather those testimonies, how do you know that they're true? So today, affidavits to be acceptable in court, you use a notary, which is an office of the state. Anyone can be applying to come a notary. By the way, you don't be elected to be 1. And so a notary has an official process. This is a common law principle, goes back thousands, at least 1000 years, I'm sure right, into old England. And the Greeks had some actually, yeah, we we did an article on on notaries recently. And so the notary is an independent person whose job is to make sure that when somebody signs a document, it's really them. So that way it can be trusted.

27:41 So if I hand you a paper and say, hey, here's the proof that I did something, here's the here's the contract that, you know, I signed with your friend that you've taken whatever it is. Business uses this all the time in the world in order to trust documents and say, well, it's notarized and it's got two witnesses on it. That's good enough for me, right? And so there has to be a way in the world for people to trust documents. For the world even function in a healthy way, right. And and that's how this came about as a common law principle and why it's still alive today and it's still the way that documents are trusted. So that's what it's talking about in the scriptures here in Doctrine Covenants 123. Former committee take statements and affidavits, affidavits of all these problems.

28:28 So one job of a committee is documenting grievances. K so. So when you put that's one job, there's a few other jobs when you put them all together. You'll start to see the, the, the picture come forth. Okay. So what do you do now? You have all these affidavits. You have these statements. Are you going to throw them in the governor's face? And he's going to say, sorry, I'm a bad guy, right. And and then we're done. Right. So. So there's there's more to the process, but you got to start there. The founding fathers did this in the Declaration of Independence. So they understood these natural laws that I'm starting to explain here and they used them and my my classes talk about that. Okay the solutions part one and Part 2. So they use these natural processes. So then here in a verse six, what are we going to do with these documents and statements now that we may not only publish to all the world.

29:26 So first thing is publish it to all the world. If you might have a lot of people on your side that would agree with you. That they're living their life, They're clueless, especially back then. You know there's no Internet. But even today, a mountain of disinformation, people don't really understand the problems that are happening. You just, they just have a gut feeling things are wrong, but they could never put their finger on it. So by being able to document and publish it, this is one of the first laws of nature we have to satisfy. So publish to all the world and present them to the Heads of Government in all their dark and hellish shoe. So we have a duty regardless of who's in office. To document these properly, Not with angry letters. Not with our opinions of, you know what Q said, you know. Not with, not with.

30:16 We just know you're all sacrificing children. You know you'll you better stop, right? Like not with ridiculous things, with things that are that are would would be admissible in a court of law that a judge could look at and couldn't deny. Right at that level of intelligence. OK, so present them to the Heads of Government and all their dark and hellish shoe. Why? As the last effort which is enjoined on us, required by us by our Heavenly Father before he can fully and or before we can fully and completely claim that promise. OK, so by doing this we are able to claim a promise. There is a spiritual.

31:00 Blessing. By for doing this properly okay, we can fully claim a promise. What is the promise? The promise which shall call him forth from His hiding place. So if we want God to come out with miracles on behalf of liberty to to support us the same miracles that we saw the founding Fathers have right the wind that blew the ships back to London. George Washington couldn't be hurt by a bullet. You know of all these the miracles we hear about in the founding era. If we want those kinds of miracles to support liberty, we have to go through this process to fully claim and complete, to fully and completely claim that promise which will call him forth from his hiding place. And also OK, so this is how the Lord comes back, comes with to help fight our battles for us then. Also that the whole nation may be left without excuse before he can send forth the power of His mighty arm. So it is important that the that the nation at the at the time, but even now the tyrants that are taking our liberty. It is so important to God himself and to satisfy the laws of nature that people are left without excuse. Ignorance is a big excuse.

32:24 Not, you know, not knowing and understanding. You know, I used to think, you know, what's the point of convincing A tyrant that they're a tyrant? OK, maybe we'll convince him and he'll do the right thing. And we definitely found that over over the years, enough pressure on a tyrant will make him do the right thing because people are watching and there isn't a natural law with that. OK, but. Consider also Christ gave the parable of the unjust judge K The judge didn't care about this old lady's problems at all, but because she weary me, I will avenge her K So there's a principle in that, even with tyrants, that the way we deal with our government.

33:22 You know that there are, there are principles here that we have to follow. So presenting them to the Heads of Government and that's how we call forth all the prayers we have. We're praying for the nation. We're praying for miracles heal the nation. We haven't followed this pattern. You're 100% correct. And and let me say this too, right, because I think this kind of goes along with it is we haven't followed the pattern that has been given us, but yet there is a tremendous amount of people who are like well, when do we get to take up arms? And my, my response to that is not yet, not ever. Hopefully not ever. Because as soon as we do, we know we're done, right? The Republic as we know it is done.

34:03 They will come down from on top and they will, they they will absolutely crush us. So no, we saw what they did just with January 6th, right. And that, you know, look at how hard they came down on that. Which was all fraudulent anyway, and I definitely believe. It is totally unnecessary. And if we follow these steps, I've been more and more convinced to that is is horrible as our situation seems. It's not about elections, like I was saying. It's about the ability to organize and these committees of safety and then start to learn the natural principles of what you do as you organize. In my manual I have I have a listing the legal basis of a committee of safety.

34:47 OK, for inherent rights that are protected by the Founding Fathers. Remember, the founding Fathers had the same problem. They had no representation. They couldn't get a guy elected, so to speak. They've solved this problem already. They first they solved this problem, and then they constituted a new government in 1787 through the Constitution. We only have to do half of that. We don't have to constitute a new government. We only have to solve the problem of why we're not being represented. Right. Effectively, no, That makes sense. And once we get there, we don't have to change the Constitution. We don't have to, you know hold a new convention for a new national constitution.

35:30 Now, I I will agree that at the state levels, we, we have good constitutions across the country at the states, but then there's a lot of nonsense here and there sprinkled in to the various state constitutions and. But before we can complain about the bad things in the state constitutions, we have to enforce the good things. We we have to show that we even understand what's good in there. Because if you think you're going to change something and create something new, but you don't even know what was good and what we had, you're not going to create something better, OK. So we have to enforce what we have. 1st and then you can talk about, gosh, that one part of the Constitution is kind of messed up or it conflicts with our rights over here.

36:13 In fact, I think a lot of the bad things in our state constitution, that's exactly how you can identify them. They will conflict with a different part of the same Constitution that is good. And so when you see that, you'll find that, you know, natural laws can can trump, but it's kind of a different conversation. So when you organize. The the legal basis of a Committee of Safety, you know, what right do we have to form and call ourselves a committee and that, that we're representing ourselves. And let me actually clarify too. Committees of Safety were understood in the founding era and for decades after the founding era because they were used to institute new government in the days of the colonists.

36:59 OKA Committee of Safety. In fact, let me read this. This is a great statement from the National Liberty Alliance in the manual. I have a history of committees Section okay Committees of Safety existed prior to 1692 and and we're and right now I'm quoting a manual from the National Liberty Alliance here. Committees of Safety existed prior to 1692 and were called by various names. So it's also a principle, even if they weren't always called that the committee which was created in that year in New York is significant in that it was created by the militia.

37:43 The colonists were dissatisfied with the government of the Crown, headed by British Governor Sir Edmund Andros. But recognizing that the militia authority must always be subordinate to civil authority, okay, militias can't just run off and do what they want. They they have, they're they're governed by the existing government. So, recognizing that and having serious concern over the abuse of authority imposed by the British Governor, the militia of New York created their own civil authority in the form of a Committee of Safety. Representation on the committee was based upon 2 delegates being elected by the citizenry who had public elections to represent each community.

38:25 The delegates gathered and exercised their authority by eventually. Imprisoning the governor for a period of a year on and off, Many communities, colonies, and provinces exercise their right of selfgovernment by establishing committees as the need arose. So this is 1692. This is littered throughout American history and one of the strongest things that has been forgotten. And there's a there's a story in the Journal of Discourses about Joseph Smith being saved by a committee of safety from an overzealous sheriff. OK. So I got a quick question then. Were these committees like formed historically to deal with certain issues and they'd be called and then they would disband? Or was this kind of a, I don't know, for lack of a better term, a neighborhood watch for constitutional issues? What were the mechanisms that set these up? So as I just read here right they they had a problem. So that was triggered by a specific problem. And and I think overall it they were facing these constant problems.

39:30 So it was something that caught on and definitely over time it was understood that it needed to be a standing neighborhood watch for the Constitution, so to speak. Okay, we talk all the time in constitutional lingo that the people are the source of the power, right. But what's the enforcement arm for that power? K now I talk I talk about that in the solutions part one class. I talk about well it's it's the people but it's also the government itself checks and balances on each other but what happens when all the checks and balances are broken the people have the authority to institute a civil authority that represents them if they're not getting representation.

40:15 K now now the there a lot of questions can arise from that and what that means you know and. And can every Joe in his basement just decide he's, you know has some authority and so there are natural laws you have to follow in order for that to be acknowledged. But but think small K so mentally start very small to understand the committee and then I'll get into these foreign rights on the legal basis of a committee K thinking very small you as an individual have the right to. Demand your rights. Okay someone comes to your door and knocks on it and says we want to search your home.

40:56 You individually can say you can't search my home without a warrant. I know my rights. No one would question today that that you have the right that's pretty common even today that people understand that and and it would be acknowledged right. The officers say okay and because they do that all the time where they just they're hoping to just gain consent. They're curious they're investigating something. And if you'll let them that they'll search all day and night. You know they'll go neighborhood if neighbor, they'll go house to house in a neighborhood if they think they're going to find something. But anyone that says, well, if you had a warrant, sorry, can't help you today and you can politely assert your rights you had the legal authority to enforce the constitution in that moment.

41:39 Does that make sense as an individual K So as a as a father you also let's think let's grow it a little bit bigger. You have the right to enforce the the rights for your whole family, right? Head of household, you will say, you know what? Our family doesn't go along with such and such because it violates the law and the Constitution. Right? Right. And so forth. OK, so if you understand you have that power as one household, your neighbor can also understand he has that power as an individual household, right? Same with the next neighbor. So if you have a whole neighborhood, you got 20 houses on your street, you 20 can get together and say, you know, as individual household households.

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43:21 You 20 can get together and say, you know, as individual household households, we we don't want to go along with any of this lockdown nonsense, for example, right? Or whatever It is K and so. You could all 20 say we're not going to do it together or you could all say, you know what, Dave, you've got the most free time. We elect you to sort of represent our neighborhood and you go tell the city, we're not, we're not doing this. You have all the legal authority to represent this neighborhood, to go to the city and declare your rights K but and now you're starting to grow, strengthen numbers.

44:05 Does that make sense? Now you do not have the authority to make up any rule you want, but what you do have is all the authority in the Constitution weak? That is already the law. The Constitution is the voice of the people. I have a whole section on that in the manual. Okay. We need to understand that. What is the voice of the people when we say the people control our government? If it's just the loudest voice how who can make the most phone calls to your legislator, then we're democracy. That's the mob. And in fact, you'll hear this in actual democracies, in Europe, you know the most people who say something that that's kind of how they see it.

44:45 But yet we as a Republic say the voice of the people rules. So how are we different from a democracy then? Because the voice of the people got together a long time ago. And when they and so that was somewhat democratic, they they elected representatives to a constitutional convention. That was the people at the convention who then wrote down what the voice of the people is in that document. So the Constitution is the voice of the people. Every individual has the authority to enforce that document on on the government. And and our representatives in office have the authority to enforce that on on a different government office that's breaking it.

45:31 That's where checks and balances come in K so. So a committee of safety is simply the right of the people to assemble that we have. That's the first principle, your right to petition for redress so you can assemble as a community and you can tell the government they're causing problems and you can document how they're causing these problems and so forth. K, when you petition for redress, you know one of the principles we read here in DNC Don't just publish them to one officer, publish them to the whole neighborhood. Get the whole neighborhood on board, educating the community on what their rights are. Hey, you don't have to listen to these lockdowns. You have the right to be open if you want, you know, K And so there's also the right of contract in the Constitution, which is your ability to associate. So if you are as a community get together and you want to be a little more formal, you already have the right to do this casually as we've just kind of walked through. Right.

46:29 So you want to be a little more formal. You can associate even contractually, you can create a charter. You can say we are a committee of we are, we are the 5th Oram S committee. You know we're we're the Sandy UT committee from 7000. E right, Whatever you want to call it. You're kind of claiming a jurisdiction. And you're saying this is who we represent. And if you've, you know, gathered your neighbors together and you kind of picked who's going to represent you, then great, right. Then you followed all these natural law, these natural law steps. So you can see that there's there is authority, there is a there is an honest authority to represent the people.

47:11 Again, you don't write your own laws, but you enforce the existing law and being that the government is breaking these laws all the time. There's a lot to do and there's a there's a lot you can write about. There's a lot you know and you know you can start small and and and there's that's why I say there's a lot of practical steps in here on how to go about this as you publish to your neighbors. This is kind of also the difference between a mob of people demanding something versus gaining some authority with your neighbors. When you go to your neighbors, if you were complaining about how they hurt Trump. You're just seen as a political activist, right? Or Black Lives Matters. They go to the neighborhood and and they said, you know, some left wing rhetoric, so to speak, you're you're not exercising authority to represent all the people.

48:00 But when you stick to the Constitution, fundamental rights we all have, you know, the same rights to protect our children and so forth, you are representing all the people. So it's very important that these organizations stick exactly to constitutional issues. Because when you do that, you completely sidestep the whole left right game, that this is the communist divide and conquer. Okay, I think I'm starting to see here. So politics, they're they're fluid. They always change. They're never static and they're never clear. So if if we ground ourselves in principle. We know that that that's going to always be our polar star, so to speak. So what you're saying is, is by grounding ourselves in the Constitution, we're grounding ourselves in principle and those principles don't ever change.

48:49 Yeah. So you're not political at all. So the the last principle that is in the national constitution, the state constitution is the right. It's written there. It's the law that that the people have the right to alter or reform their government now. There is no details on how they do that. Okay, but it is the people's right now I wouldn't recommend again, we're not doing what the founding fathers did. We're not abolishing and creating something new. We have an amazing roadmap that we can follow and so we we have a duty to really read and understand every line.

49:33 Of our Constitution and why it's there? Because each one was debated well, and that is the voice of the people. You cannot uphold it if you don't understand every single line. And I read through it countless times and I still learn new things. And a lot of the lot of the new things I learned come from historical context. You know, we have, we have a weekly class with Dr. Scott Bradley who has more historical context on the Constitution than anyone I've ever met. And I I I learned things from him. I just learned the other week the difference between oath or affirmation and why that mattered to a lot of people. Right. I just never thought about it before. But it says, you know, that this constitution shall be supported by oath or affirmation. Why?

50:13 OK, so I want. In fact that's a really good segue. I can. I can explain a step here on some powers that the committees have. So imagine in government, why is it that checks and balances exist. The founding fathers talked about how government, this free government, will maintain and sell itself because ambition will check ambition. So when the executive department doesn't like what the legislative department does, they are legally bound. They can appeal to the higher law, the Constitution, and say I'm not going to sign that, you know law, or I'm going to ignore your executive order.

50:57 Right. Or the county could tell the state we're not going to go along with these lockdowns because appeal to this constitution. The emergency powers of the constitution talk about how you know things that they they can't do. And so by by each government officer being sworn by oath or affirmation to support that document that is the legal fundamental basis for why government officials can ignore other government officials. And so as a committee when you. When you approach your local representatives, your sheriff, your City Councilman, and you've established a relationship with them, and they know that you're intelligent and you're bringing them things that are thoughtful and wise, you're coming to them not as hey you oathbreaker, how dare you be so tyrannical?

51:46 You're not doing that, which is what we're always tempted to do. And sometimes we feel like they deserve it, and some of them definitely do, but what you're doing is. Listen to the wisdom of the founders appeal to their ambition. Okay. Ambition checks ambition. So you say, Hey sheriff, we want we're here to help you maintain your authority because that is what the oath to the Constitution is all about. Okay, we're here to help you. And so here are constitutional grievances that are well documented from the people and. You can show him that you've got 30 organizations that have seen this and that have signed, you know, on it.

52:32 You can show that you've got, you know, thousands of supporters. You've got, you know, the head of the Health Freedom Club, you've got the head of, you know, the soccer club, the PTA, whatever it is, right. There's a lot of, you know, tools and tips that that I've talked about. But when you show him, the people have come to him with a grievance and what they're saying is. The state is doing these things to us. The federal government's doing this to us. Sheriff, we need you to do this. Here is the legal affidavit, sworn testimony admissible in court for what is happening to us as a people. You now give it to the Heads of Government as the scriptures talk about. Appeal to their ambition that all these people are behind them when they execute well on their oath of office to to. To then take the next step.

53:24 You know, I think you bring up an interesting point here too, because so often we are quick to just jump on the guys who aren't protecting our constitutional rights and as we should, but we're kind of slow to get behind the guys who are actually doing the job that that we hired them to do. When we elected them right. So I like how we're we're kind of empowering our our local elected officials by by saying here, let us help you in this process and and I think that only serves to do 2 things. One, it gives us an opportunity to as the founder said Sue for address.

54:08 And then on the other side, it allows us to kind of foster a relationship with our local elected leaders, such as a sheriff by saying, you know what, here's all this and we want you to know we have your back as well. Now imagine the worst case scenario, because everyone's always going to ask what if he doesn't listen? This is always going to be the question, right? And so this process is designed to where to deal with that, so. I think in a lot of cases when you build that kind of relationship, we're going to start being surprised more often than we expect. And right now, I expect 0 from past experience generally, right.

54:49 So but I I, I think it doesn't take a lot to to to see some light. So if part of this right now is this is a new concept where we're training our officials. That the people know how to organize and self govern. K So there's there's like multiple phases of this. We're training our elected officials that we understand the Constitution. We're wise about it. We can document and be helpful because you can go to a sheriff with a complaint, but if you hand him on a silver platter everything he needs, you know you're taking away a lot of the busy work. You know he's who knows where his mind is and so forth and you're you're assisting him.

55:33 And you're also starting to leave him without excuse. Okay. Do you see that? Okay. So we're starting to fulfill nature's requirements for this and the Lord's requirements for this. So. So we want you want to regularly, you know, start doing these kinds of things. And you keep a record as a committee of how often they side with the people and how often they don't. If that is done correctly, now you're going to start to really have something to document to the public K to your community K And it's not just an angry letter. Did you know our mayor did this horrible thing? People like it's just another angry Republican or another angry Democrat, right?

56:20 That's that's all they see nowadays when you try to warn your neighbor about things. K partisan issues and emotion. Instead it's like, did you know? That last year, you know, 115 businesses got licensed by this one, you know got this fine, which is was a violation of the state constitution and 30 businesses had to shut down. And we brought this grievance to the city on five different occasions and and they agreed we were right and they didn't do anything about it right. So you've got a much different case against the things that are happening. And you're really starting to train your local powers that that the people pay attention and they pay attention well and intelligently and so forth.

57:07 And now you're satisfying the laws of nature. Now the the according to the Doctrine and Covenants, the Lord can be more pleased and and we're satisfying that right. Okay. So now I have another question for you. There are attorneys that maybe aren't on the side of liberty. And they have a way of just twisting things or creating loopholes that you know, will say, well, gosh, I I think the, the the constitution should be interpreted this way. And so I like the idea of of finally as conservatives getting to the point to where we're organizing right. I'm a conservative, but I I have to admit this conservatives suck when it comes to being able to.

57:52 To community organize. We're just busy with our jobs. We don't have millionaire daddies to bail us out, but eventually these things are going to get kicked up a notch and they're going to get kicked into the courts. What do we do when that happens? Because we may not have the same kind of high-powered attorneys that other folks do. Yeah, we don't win in the courts. And the goal here is not to go to the court. Definitely not. You combine all of this with. The CC if you're publishing this to the community and you're actually keeping a record, you've got all these businesses that have been hurt and and you're well, you're documenting this well. You're holding town halls. Once in a while, people are going to start claiming right there will be, you will spread civil disobedience to the unconstitutional laws more and more, right?

58:43 And so now sometimes that's easier. Then other times depending on the situation and I I I recognize that and and I've thought through you know different scenarios and I believe there are answers to every scenario over time. So this takes a lot to kind of wrap your heads around because this is new thinking I think for a lot of people that's why I have the manual and the classes and and I love helping people process individual situations and and defending Utah is here to support people in that that's that's what we're doing. Okay. So but it's a great question because to me the problem is not so much Oh no, in court they're gonna get us Okay because once you know you have a right, you learn to claim it as a community. I mean okay let's let's back up to the simple example that I gave you earlier.

59:34 If the officer says who knocked on your door and says he wants to search your house and you says if you get a warrant and he says, well we'll let a judge decide that. You're probably going to say no, you can get a warrant, you know, and I guess a judge, they get a warrant from a judge. But. But if they wanted to not have a warrant, they might say, our lawyers say we don't have to. That's a better way to explain it. OK. Our lawyers say we don't need a warrant. Or our lawyers say this napkin in my pocket is a warrant. That happens a lot, actually, where they give you something and they call it a warrant. And it's not really a warrant because they're trying to kind of gaslight you. OK. I've heard of this. Don't. Go to jail for that. There's got it's got to be illegal. To misrepresent a document.

1:00:17 They This is why fighting in the courts isn't good most of the time because I have I have some opinions on the court but you don't get your liberate in the court because they are so good at playing games okay and so you know it's a case by case thing again but I would guess that. They would say, well, you didn't ask for a real warrant. Or they'll say this is an administrative warrant, They'll change the language. So they didn't actually claim it was a warrant. Like, whatever it is, it's a game somewhere, OK. So you have to inherently understand your rights so well that no matter what is thrown at you, you can stand in your square. This is so important. OK, Being able to stand in your square and then teaching more people to be able to do that. So when you say, you know, well, I know that's not a warrant because.

1:01:06 Doesn't have these three constitutional requirements that would have warrant this. So thank you, officer. When you come back with a valid constitutional warrant other than that, I'd ask you to leave my property, right. And so it's like now you know, they're trespassing and all that kind of stuff. But you got to learn how to do all these things intelligently, without emotion. When you stand on your rights, there's so much power, more than we believe we have K so, so then that being said. My concern is not so much courts, but being able to for us. We need to learn how to stand in our square on these things. We need to We need to nullify. We talked a lot about nullification over the years.

1:01:46 K not just nullificate. Large legislators can nullify the feds. Our counties can nullify the state, but we personally nullify these committees as communities can nullify. That is the very essence of the checks and balances. But we want to help our sheriff nullify the ATF when they come into town. That's protecting his authority, showing him why he has the authority to nullify. The problem is lawyers, Okay, lawyers are a problem that you're bringing up. It's not so much that he's going to go open some case in court and then we're going to have to adjudicate this. The problem is more he's going to be buddies with the County Attorney. Hey, Joe, what do you think of this? Right, K that's the issue.

1:02:30 And so even if you help him get excited, he actually wants to do the right thing. He thinks, gosh, all these people will love me if I just do this simple little thing. I'll do that. I'll maintain my power longer. Even though the voting system's rigged, they love that all their constituents would love them. So there is an ambition aspect that they will want to do the right thing if you bring them something intelligent. So when he goes to his lawyer and he says, hey, they had this declaration. And you know I want I'm, I'm thinking I'm going to get behind this and I'm going to you know whatever it is, whatever action you're asking for and I've written a number of examples of these by the way we we can talk about that and that attorney is going to look at it and go no because then he'll throw in these case law examples. So, so that really is the goal.

1:03:22 We have to understand the law so well that we do get around that. You know, to to a degree and and I've worked very hard on that and really if you understand the Constitution, your rights well enough, it's really just a matter of articulating it correctly. So it's not like our words are magic that if you say the right thing, the sheriff will obey you right. And it's it's about understanding the process he's going to go through and helping him get around misunderstandings or confusions. So if we don't study the Constitution. Which is why we have our weekly class with Dr. Scott Bradley. We can't execute on this as well.

1:04:03 Now we're never going to be perfect. We're never going to know it well enough to be perfect. But we're we're going to try and we're going to fail. We're going to learn and then we're going to try better. And I've already seen this this happen. So defending Utah, if you, if you watch the classes that I've given, has some examples of things we've tried but also. We have an affiliate organization that we've created, which is a national organization, OK, called the American Committees Association. OK, so we taken all this knowledge that we've gained that. I'm only giving a teaser of here on this podcast. I want to make that clear. I know, I know people listening are going to have questions. It won't work because of this.

1:04:43 Or what about this? Those are all great questions. I am convinced the founding fathers knew what they were doing and that these natural laws are correct and so we can address. All these questions and yes, it takes work. But by consistently applying and honoring these natural laws, we will get the end results we're looking for. I I believe that wholeheartedly and I believe everyone else can too. You just got, it's new. You got to process it. You got to think about it okay. So. So the American Communities Association is taking these these ideas and these plans and these organizing concepts and we've have been. Sharing them.

1:05:24 This manual has been shared across the the country and we have 3 committees in California that are using this manual today. They've had sheriff meetings already. We've been getting feedback. We've been seeing some shocking successes as far as in California of all of all places, OK And of course, this is all very new. This is new in the, in the landscape of just activism in America in general, OK. At least being able to actually apply this. The successes are a lot in this the the the the willingness of sheriffs to want to be on the side of the people.

1:06:06 They just can't have an angry mob or an unintelligent thing. You're thrown at them. They will look stupid to their County Attorney, to whoever else they have to answer to. So you you have to give them things that are legally sound, this one sheriff in California. Responded to this committee in in one meeting and said, so if you're going to be bringing me these, these documents, these affidavits, these declarations, you must have a constitutional attorney on your team, right? Almost testing them, Okay. And this is what we have to understand is the intelligent people in the system will test you and you have to be able to stand your square.

1:06:48 So the test was you must have a constitutional attorney. You must know the law so well if you think you know you're going to do this right. And but of course, you know, one part of the discussion was how many constitutional attorneys even are there in the country, attorneys that understand the Constitution. Right. And the sheriff agreed. The sheriff was like okay. It was a good answer. But, you know, and they discussed a little more but you know, he said he's willing to listen. So they, you know, having established that relationship. And in in Arizona, I've been talking to people in Michigan, I've been talking to groups that are very excited about this. So in Utah, we've had a a committee in in Southern Utah that has been exploring and operating under this manual and charter at least an older version of it for two years and and then just this past week.

1:07:47 And we've had some organizations actually go to elected officials and talk about some of the problems with public private partnerships, and they've been delivering declarations and meeting with sheriffs. So we're starting to use this process. But again, it's gonna take some time as we explore and learn, and we will. So I'm just sitting here thinking and. Even if you're not getting the desired results you want, you're at least slowing down the process on the other side, right? Some of these, you know, similar tactics work simply from traditional activist organizations by being a loud voice. And there's a natural law that they feel accountable to the loud voice to the mob a little bit, right?

1:08:29 Or at least they can be nervous, but sometimes they laugh in our face also at the same time, OK. The the, the smart cities is something that that that was actually what was delivered. We were starting to deliver this past this past week. So if you go to the website Utah committee dot US okay this is a state level committee where we publish these constitutional principle declarations that we've been practicing at this for a couple years. And they're getting better and stronger. And, you know, in 2020, we had a lockdown, one that was about, you know, terminating emergency powers. I think we're going to have to revisit that because they're doing some things with water and trying to take our water under what they call water emergencies. But the idea is that how do you push back against smart cities? Well, you have to identify why they're illegal. Why is the government breaking the law in what they're doing? And can they do it in a way that they're not breaking the law? You can't just complain about them. We don't like smart cities, right? If if you are enforcing the voice of the people, you have to be able to understand how it's illegal in in the state constitution.

1:09:46 K and and so on that website Utah Committee US there's a link called documents and I label these declarations that we put out and the the 2nd to last one right now 2023-4 is about these districts. And it and it lists out the parts of the constitution that get violated. And then actually I wrote a much more readable article on our website. If you go to defendingutah.org for slash smart cities, I walk through how they're legal with the legislature is doing, they're trying to, you know erase various boundaries. So and I can tell you right now it it is a principle of republicanism to have boundaries and jurisdiction and otherwise you can't have representation at all. And so they are erasing those.

1:10:35 They're trying to redelegate authority to private companies, to regional governments, things that are connected to like the UN and and so forth. But break it down simply to there's a line in the state constitution that prohibits the redelegation of authority. It's right there in black and white. OK, so we need to show our elected officials our sheriff's hey, they're redelegating authority. They can't do that. We need you to get behind this and enforce it. Another thing they're doing is there's a free trade clause in the state constitution where I in my article that I just mentioned. I broke it down grammatically because it's difficult to understand that first, and it is one of the most blatantly ignored lines in our state constitution. If you ask me.

1:11:23 It's the whole line that says why. Mixing government with business is illegal. Is is downright illegal. Yet we do it every day now. We praise it as the most wonderful thing that we're cooperating, right? People don't understand that's the very definition of fascism, right? Where in communism they're going to come in and they're just going to nationalize everything. With fascism, If you look back historically, Hitler kept Krupp steel, Mussolini kept the corporations. And and instead of being federalized, they just worked kind of for the government and with the government. And it's great that we have in our state constitution something to prevent that.

1:12:08 We just got to hold the politicians to it. Right. And we have to be able to understand it. So that because a lawyer, I'd be shocked how many lawyers even understand that because it's not part of their job, it's not part of their training, it's it's one of those things that never even comes up probably. And so I think what's commonly understood among the legal profession is conspiracy. If you could prove someone's conspiring to control part of the market, that then that is more understood. But but the state constitution doesn't say conspiracy in trade is the only thing that's legal. It's broken down into three parts. Any contract in restraint of trade, you can do it wide open and on purpose. Doesn't even have to be a conspiracy. If you create a contract with the state and that restrains the free market from filling a need, that is unconstitutional, it's right there in black and white.

1:13:06 And so I broke that down in this article. And and that's something though we definitely have to teach our sheriffs, we have to teach our, our city council's this very specific thing why publicprivate partnerships are illegal when they start to learn it. It needs to become as commonly understood as the Second Amendment. Oh, you can't take our guns. Oh, you can't fund that private company because now the free market can't fill it. Now I'm not totally ignorant to that question is is could get a little more detailed. Sometimes government you know goes to private companies to fill their needs and so forth. But but in general we are so overboard on this as we're praising publicprivate partnerships and we're taking that as a. First approach and then we're giving private companies the power to make law.

1:13:57 We're redelegating authority to private companies. And so there's a variety of unconstitutional things here. So if we want to go against the smart cities. We're not just we can't just complain that we're worried about it is still being future even though that is exactly what they're you know the building, right. Our neighbor. It's too much for our neighbors to to to who don't even know about smart cities to talk about. You know they're building this crazy prison for us, right? It's going to go in one, air out the other. You can't give them the background by just knocking on their door. So but what we can do is we can identify how they're violating a specific line. And that is the voice of the people, and we have the authority to enforce that.

1:14:42 So yeah. Anyway. Oh, OK. So this is a pretty good point, too, so that the next declaration I put out is about these, the privacy invasions. This is a big deal. I think it's even bigger than the smart cities. So you go to the airport now. Right. And they got all these face scanners and and let me give advice to everybody or I meant to make a YouTube video about this and I haven't yet. People need to know, they need to be opting out at the airport. They can you walk up to the the, you know, security, they're going to tell you put your face, you know, in the box and if you say do I have to do that, they'll say yes, that's what we do.

1:15:28 You have to use the keyword opt out, Okay. And so all these things are happening. This is why they would argue it's legal right now because, well, you can opt out. We're not forcing you to do it, you know any of these things, but they're collecting your data, they're putting you in a facial recognition database so that all the cameras all around the cities can start to recognize it's China style. We've seen those videos about China doing that, right. They are absolutely building that infrastructure right now. It's not just going to be in the smart cities, but it's going to expand and to everywhere if they, you know, they can help in 20 years so. Right now, we have the right to opt out. That's a soft way to kind of, you know, push back. But let me explain to you how the courts see this.

1:16:10 Because I wanted to write a declaration that would tell cities they need to take those cameras down so that as committees you can go to your city, you can gather the voice of the people, you can gather signatures and you can create a legally a lawful document admissible in court. That that shows the grievances and you're demanding redress and if if the cities are on your side and they agree, they will start taking the cameras down. In theory, right? This is the theory. You can call it a big dream if you want, right? But but I believe it is possible and so so my thought was. Let's define how they're violating the law. Pretty simple.

1:16:51 Did you have a warrant you know to take my facial recognition you know data did you have and all these things. But I thought very carefully, how does the court see this because when the sheriff gets these declarations that's he's going to take it to his County Attorney and he'll say, well we have the right because of this and this ruling and so forth. And then the sheriff sheriff can ignore his County Attorney if he agrees with us. We just need to show him why he's justified and give him the motivation to to. Use his ambition. Like we said, right? With his ambition, he has all the power to ignore everybody who's a naysayer, if we can show him why it's lawful, and so forth. So I investigated the courts, and when they ruled against our privacy and it was very interesting, I was shocked that I was more impressed with the courts than I thought I would be.

1:17:41 They were more reasonable than I thought they would be, while still sometimes they weren't. But it wasn't like a wholesale just abandoning of our rights like I thought I was going to find. So imagine this. We can think through logically and have empathy for this process. Long time ago, whether someone violated your right to privacy was very simple. You own property, there's a property line, you cross it, you're trespassing. Pretty simple. We didn't have telephones. We didn't have the Internet, you know, and so forth. And so it used to be the courts, the way, you know, they would look at trespassing a long time ago is simply, did they cross the property line and without permission, You know, pretty simple.

1:18:23 And there's still an element of that. But imagine this case that came before the courts. Guy walks into a phone booth in public. He he closes the phone booth and he gets on a phone call. And someone was listening to him, a agent of a police agent was, was listening to him, gathered evidence against him. And it becomes goes all the way, all the way to the Supreme Court whether he violated his right to privacy. Well, he was in public. He wasn't in his home, in, you know, behind his property line. And I'm kind of paraphrasing the case. I didn't read the whole thing, but I got the gist of it here. There was the phone booth case. And so the courts had to decide. How do we know?

1:19:05 That this guy had a right to privacy while he was in public and the courts are very mechanical as an as a software engineer I can appreciate that it's very mechanical to the details because you have to realize that whatever they apply they're going to set a precedent that will that can mechanically be applied you know to other things. And so they they said well it is obvious to everybody. That when he went into that phone booth and closed his door, he wanted to have a private conversation. K they take the the key obvious to everybody they that's a cultural thing. Does the culture at large believe that you have a right to privacy when you close the door in the phone booth? You ask anyone on the street, they'd say yeah, that's why you have a private phone booth.

1:19:58 K So therefore we this precedent came. A legal doctrine of an A reasonable expectation of privacy makes sense. So if you're out in public and you have a reasonable expectation of privacy. But how do you know? Well, there was an overt act that you closed the door to the phone booth maybe? Or there was another case where so like if you walk by a house and you're on a public St. you can see something from the public. He can't expect the police officer to close his eyes and not look at every house. K that's not his problem. You have to claim your privacy by closing your window shades, right?

1:20:43 It's very reasonable when you think about it. K So by understanding that these are the kinds of things that the lawyers, you know, look at. So one day the court is going to rule on the street cameras in America. One day they will. We have to get ahead of that. Right now, if we say nothing and we allow it, they're going to say, well, we've had these cameras for 15 years now and everybody knows that they're getting scanned because we all go to the driver's license. We let them scan us, we go to the airport, we let them scan us. We are going to allow it by simply being silent. And even if we complain on social media, that doesn't count. OK, what matters is that there has never been any action taken. There's never been any complaints made. There's never been any petitions for redress and so forth. Now we don't have some people would say, OK, let's file lawsuits.

1:21:38 That is not where I say go. That is expensive. That is one way to put yourself on record, OK, to show that there are lawsuits, but we're not asking the courts to rule. And if we have the right to privacy, we as a community are going to nullify. We're going to start demanding. We're going to take out, you know, taking affidavits, delivering them to every county clerk, to every sheriff. Hey, city, you don't have the right to put these cameras up and invade our privacy. We are going to go on records, you know, really loud and not just as a mob, but with affidavits that are sworn testimony. You know, you know, notarize whatever it is, right? You use those tools now that the lawyer will push back and say, well, it's in public. And we already have cameras.

1:22:23 It's probably what it's pretty well established that security cameras in public places, especially with private businesses, right, can kind of protect their borders. And when you're in public, you don't have a reasonable expectation of privacy. So I understood this. So I thought, what's the difference between these cameras then? Right. I'm sure they're going to use that argument of they're just cameras. OK. But but so I thought through this carefully and in the declaration I published, actually, I addressed these issues. Okay. So there was another. I don't know how long you want me to Babble on this because I did a lot of deep diving on this. I'm kind of fascinated. Now, there was another case about a guy in his house, and he was growing marijuana plants in his house.

1:23:04 This this made it to the Supreme Court, and he was doing it privately in his house. The police were surveilling his house, windows were closed. So he should have had all the privacy in the world. They can't collect any evidence on him. Unless they can somehow get a warrant into his house and they didn't have any information to get a warrant into his house, all they could do is watch from the outside. The guy was totally within his rights as far as privacy is concerned to and and they didn't have any justifiable means. What they did was they used a heat camera that could measure the heat outside his house. This went all the way to the Supreme Court because because because it was like, well, the heat went outside his house.

1:23:47 And therefore, now it's in the public right. But yet he was, he was growing with heat lamps inside his house and it became another one of these phone booth cases. K Initially the lower courts ruled, well, you didn't take any overt act to protect the heat from going outside your house. That was the initial ruling K But then it got reversed by the Supreme Court. So the initial ruling, they were trying to follow this, this the same concept if you didn't close your window shades. Right, Kate. And so they when they appealed it to the Supreme Court, I think it was who's that judge that everybody likes that just recently passed away. He was one of our Scalia.

1:24:31 Yeah. I think it was Scalia who ruled on this, which is probably why it got such a good ruling. Don't quote me on that. I read a bunch of cases so maybe I'm cross referencing them wrong. But I'm pretty sure that was the Scalia case and. And he thought about this so deeply because this was established doctrine. He did no overt act to keep the heat in his house from being measured outside, right, Kind of silly. K1 of the arguments they said was, well, the device that they used, that the police used was this high tech device that is not common among people. So it wasn't like he used an app on his phone. It was a see, it was a high tech device.

1:25:11 So we started going down that route. So you see the thread here that what is common among the people, what we are saying out loud, ultimately finds its way into the courts courtrooms. OK, and. And not that again, the courts are not the arbiters on our rights, but it will also find its way into how the lawyer pushes back against the sheriff. If we try to claim our rights, we'll also find its way into every aspect of government in general. So culture is so important and it's so important that we're loud voices. It has a bigger natural impact than we realize. Okay. But we're going to get better at it. We're going to get better than just being loud activists. We want to get, we want to upgrade how we do this so that it has even more effect.

1:25:55 But the back to the court case. So Scalia thought about this the the the fact that the device was, you know, wasn't in common use was one argument. But the ultimate argument was that Scalia said, you know, we live in a new world. With high technology, we have to interpret the intention of the 4th Amendment within the meaning it had in the day it was written. And so he thought about it carefully and he said the way we rule on this, you know, setting a precedent for the future, if it changes the meaning of the intention of the original intent of the 4th Amendment, it's the wrong ruling. And so he thought about it carefully and and ultimately and he reversed it.

1:26:47 And he said we cannot allow the use of, you know, these devices to just gather data on us. Anything you gather has to be if if the if you could not have otherwise gathered it without getting a warrant to enter the home, then you violated their rights and that evidence is not permissible in court. So it was a really good ruling. From the Supreme Court, even though the lower courts ruled wrong at first, but I gained an appreciation for the struggle they were dealing with right through that process. So I then applied all of that into this, this declaration. Now that I've written, it's a three page declaration on what our rights are with with these cameras and why facial recognition is illegal.

1:27:29 And all this, this biometrics and these declarations are now asking cities to take down cameras. That they've installed if they have facial recognition and to not participate in these programs, this is going to start the conversation in a very different way if we get more people on board following this program. So that's an invitation to listeners and anyone we have this program. It is well thought out. It it we just need strength in numbers now and people willing to dedicate you know an hour a month. And and maybe your Monday night, if you want to learn from Scott Bradley so that you can do this well.

1:28:09 But we're trying to do the heavy lifting on the constitutional arguments and then let everybody use them. So this new declaration I wrote addresses this question of expectation of privacy. We absolutely have an expectation of privacy on our. Biometrics. This is, this is like could they have scanners in public that look through our clothes? You know, can cameras look through and and you remember this was a TSA question actually rather than 11. Only the TSA. Right. But even with the TSA, people push back on that far enough people don't know it that it does that anymore because you know, they used to have the pictures where they you could see through and you knew they were taking these these. Underclosed pictures of us, but now that's out of sight, out of mind.

1:28:59 People don't know that anymore. They had to pull back because people did push back on that. But you because people didn't accept that and same argument. People wouldn't accept that out in, in, in public if they knew that was happening. So. So my eyeballs cannot be observed casually by other human beings, right? My eyeball scans my facial features, you know, documented by a computer. Mathematically cannot be observed by the general public. These are private features to me. I have a reasonable expectation that those are private to me and that cameras aren't harvesting that data off of me. This is a claim we have to publicly start making now and we need to deliver that those claims to mayors, to city councils, to sheriffs and saying we will not accept this public surveillance at this level.

1:29:54 Now if you have a camera for safety, we've accepted that. We're not even complaining about that, but we want to shut down the facial recognition databases in the state. That's kind of the goal. So I think it's possible. We just need more players on the field. Now I think more intelligent people will come out of the woodwork when they understand this with better ideas, and we're all going to work on this together and we can find pockets of freedom that blossom in the state. Even if you find a few here and there, this ought to work really well in rural communities. Even just having rural communities now case by case basis, right?

1:30:35 But still, even having those small pockets of freedom. As this grows, bigger cities will get jealous of the freedom you have. And also that sets precedent. How come these three cities aren't going along with this one thing? How come they don't have climate lockdowns? You know, in this part so. This is why, one reason why high density housing. You know that the the elite want to squash us into a manageables the the four county area. That's their goal. 4 counties that they you know they say by 2050 they they don't want any rural areas even populated. Their backup plan is that if those rural areas stay populated and they can't quite move people away. Then they're just going to have many smart cities they want to put smart infrastructure to.

1:31:20 They want Total Information awareness with their technology. So today we've got to start declaring why it's wrong. We've got to say no, it is not the end of the world like it feels like. When we read the headlines, I want to tell people that OK, they set ambitious goals by 20-30. We're going to have, you know, a World Economic Forum inspired new world order. It's just a goal they have. You know, they've had, they had goals to be a Soviet US by 1976. That was right. That was one of their original goals. They always have goals and they are getting closer to them. And it is true that we shouldn't waste time, but let's not waste time running after things that don't work, right?

1:32:03 Let's understand the Founders patterns, let's understand the scriptural patterns and then let's apply them well, let's execute them as best and quickly as we can. And it's okay that we fail and it might not work perfectly, but we'll keep trying and I believe this will catch on and will end the conspiracies, influence and their authority over us. So then, from an LDS perspective, a free society prepares the way for any hopes of Zion after that from a political standpoint. Dude, that's awesome. I am so jacked up. Where can people go to find more information on this again? Okay, so defending utah.org.

1:32:47 I would invite people to join. Become a member and learn with us. Each week there's a membership tab. If you want to read just about committees at first, you can go to defendingutah.org/solutions Part one Okay and then that will lead you to Solutions Part 2. We do have a Liberty Boot camp on our website. If you click on that, that's a lot more of the the background on why the Constitution matters, secret combinations. It's a great foundation and if you want to geek out on it and get everything, you can go through that. But if you just, but if you're already there, you're already, you know, stalwart for the Constitution. You can start with this committee, Solutions Part One and Solutions Part 2, then join our meetings.

1:33:31 And you know, work with me personally, I'll mentor anyone to walk through this and and we'll go from there. Perfect. I am so excited to see where this goes. So promise me as you get more kind of case by case data back on how this has worked, promise me you'll come back on and tell us about it, All right? Sure, definitely. Yeah. We've got, we've got a lot of initial examples. But definitely, yeah, we'll keep coming back. We'll keep talking, absolutely. Awesome. All right. Happy 4th of July, everybody.

1:34:27 You're listening to the Mormon Renegade podcast.