Episode #75: The Seven Churches In The Book Of Revelations & Possible Connections To The Churches Of RestorationW/Taylor Smith

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One of the things I love most
about the scriptures is that as

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our walk-in, our discipleship of
Jesus Christ, matures and

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changes.
So too, do the scriptures

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certain passages will take on
new personal meanings given

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where we are in our current
circumstances.

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This is why the scriptures will
always be relevant on this

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episode of the podcast.
I have Taylor Smith back on

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Taylor's working on hypothesis
that the in the Book of

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Revelation, the seven churches.
His mentioned are not only

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historical churches but also
could be a representation of

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certain groups.
Within the Restoration in these

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latter days stay tuned for a
fascinating conversation on this

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episode of the Mormon Renegade
podcast.

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Look, it's no secret that our
society has become much more

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crude and course to become and
raise men and women of virtue

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and characters are Herculean
task to help with this.

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I have recently wrote and
published a book.

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Now, back in the 1700s,
Washington had a book called

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Rules of Civility, indecent
behavior, and Company and

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conversation.
It was a book with 110 Rules

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that talked about how to conduct
yourself like a civilized person

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in society.
Something that today's society

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is sorely lacking, What I did is
I went back through the book and

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I reinterpreted his original
sayings for the 21st century.

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So, the book is laid out in a
way in which you see,

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Washington's original rule right
below.

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That is my explanation for the
21st century and below that,

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you'll find two or three
examples of where, to use this

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in the real world now to go
along with this, there's a

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workbook that helps parents
teach these principles and

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practices to their kids to find
the book.

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Go to Mormon, Renegade.com, go
to the bottom of the page.

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Search out the blog post in
order your copy today.

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I can bear personal testimony
from personal experience that

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this is an invaluable tool to
help you raise men and women of

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virtue and character.
Taylor, welcome back, man, how's

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things going going?
Great.

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Thanks Dave.
Glad to be back.

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So, you know, normally we spend
a little time kind of

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chit-chattin, but I got to tell
you, I'm super excited for this.

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When you, when you first showed
this, to me at the Book of

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Mormon evidence conference, I
was Kind of its kind of like,

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well there's there's some stuff
there and as I've read and I've

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only become to become more
intrigued so real quick.

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Why don't you break down?
What the premise is before we

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get into it big time.
Yeah.

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So you know I've had kind of a
personal tradition of New Year's

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to read scriptures and just do a
marathon, you know, because you

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know we often times will do deep
studies into various topics or

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will just be reading along more
at a you know, chapter 2 at a

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time in our daily studies but I
find tremendous value in at

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least once a year doing like a
big picture and you really get a

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different perspective.
When you read a lot of

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scriptures in close proximity.
So, you know, having kids, it's

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not as conducive to just yeah.
Pull in all.

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Yeah, there's and, you know, and
just read doing reading

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marathons, but we do the best we
can.

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And, and you know, I've invited
various brothers and family and

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friends to join me over the
years.

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And maybe this next year, we can
do something like that together,

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but if you'd be all this, yeah,
this last New Year's.

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I was reading the book of
Mormon.

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And was just just amazed at how
timely and questions, like, how,

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how prophetic these events being
described in the Book of Mormon

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are, and in the nature of
prophecies.

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It's much easier to identify in
retrospect, like, you know,

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prophecies.
You know, you look at Isaiah

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there, a lot vaguer when their
future events, but when you can

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look back or, as you can see,
current events unfolding The

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pieces start to fall in and fall
together a lot better.

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And so, my brother and I and Mom
and I were doing our New Year's

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study and as I was reading
though, in first Nephi chapter

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14, it talks about Nephi sees
this Vision, right?

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And and it's our day.
He sees the restoration, he sees

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the, the horror and the big
conflict in preparation.

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And then he says, and I'm going
to stop now.

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Because God has told me that
John, another of his servants is

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going to write the rest and when
I wrote when I read that I

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thought man, I haven't read the
book of Revelation in a few

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years.
I need to dive back into that.

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And so, and so, a few a couple
weeks after it.

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So this is still probably mid,
maybe late January, this point

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was, was looking at the first
couple of chapters of Revelation

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with my brother-in-law.
We were kind of doing this, this

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study together.
Her and it just started to hit

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us a lot of these.
Parallels.

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Because, you know, the
revelation of John, he's writing

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him on the island of Patmos in
Exile and and that he's

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addressing these various
churches, their seven churches

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in Asia Minor.
And what's interesting, you

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know, these are literal
historical bodies of the Saints

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in the first century BC to ad.
So this is post Christ's death.

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Resurrection Ascension and the
gospel has been preached.

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Paul had been, you know, doing
his labors.

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And so there were a lot of
converts.

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And there were these seven main
kind of, I guess, we might call

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them Stakes of Zion so to speak
branches of the church.

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But they're geographically
separated, and they have kind of

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their own unique things.
And the big like Epiphany that

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off.
Aha moment was whoa.

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I wonder if these are also like
archetypical and if there are

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any modern corollaries to these
seven, branches described in the

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Book of Revelation that I can
identify because I I started to

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see these parallels between, you
know, Ephesus is the first

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church will get into here in a
minute and and one of the

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branches of the restoration that
I've gotten to know and I've

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gotten to know people and, you
know, some of the strengths that

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are described some of their, you
know, the things that God

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commands them For also, some of
the problems that they have had

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and that they are invited to
overcome and I see, I saw these

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parallels, and I was like, whoa,
full of this works for this

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particular branch of the
restoration.

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I wonder if the other six
churches.

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If I could kind of fight
Identify some themes that

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correlate with some of the
other, you know, groups,

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organized groups or the the
mainstream church and my

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expectations.
My mind was blown because I I

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had that thought but I didn't
really expect it to be such a

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perfect fit and I'm not speaking
authoritatively on any of this.

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Let's just be clear up front.
These are just some insights

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that I believe the spirit has
led me to that.

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I find Value in and the spirit
has kind of resonated Within Me

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of these things and I'll bring
together some of the kind of the

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overarching takeaways at the
end.

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After we go through these these
scriptures.

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But the main thing for me is
it's just Just yet another

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testimony that despite how much
darkness is in the world,

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despite all of the, you know,
Division and the the kind of

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infighting and the wickedness
that we see all over the world

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and even within the restoration,
this is all going according to

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God's plan, you know, the, the
no unhallowed hand can stop the

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work of God from progressing.
And, and so, he saw all of this

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in foresight this, these these
book of Descriptions of these

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seven churches.
I believe are very applicable to

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this current state of the
restoration today.

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Yeah and when you first told me
this I was I was at first a

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little concerned because I kept
waiting for okay.

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Are we going to get to a point
to where nobody has dirt on

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their shirt so to speak?
Right?

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Is there going to be one group
that just squeaky clean?

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And the thing that did appeal to
me about it, the the The theory

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you have is that all these
branches, right?

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So so just to kind of break down
what you said, your we're going

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to correlate the the seven
churches that are talked about

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in Revelation with the branches
of the restoration and and it's

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your your I guess idea that that
that the seven churches are

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representative or archetypes of
maybe seven branches within the

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restoration.
Yeah, and so I guess I want to

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get out of the way.
First is that, while certainly

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we all have some mud on our
shirt, right?

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It doesn't mean the Lord's not
working with each of us on these

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things, right?
And just like you said, he

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commends us for certain things
and he says okay certain things

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you got to clean up and if
anybody whether it was an

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independent or from a group that
says hey we got this all figured

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out my question would be why you
still here, bro?

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Right, like why hasn't the Lord
come down and grabbed you?

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Taking you up, right?
Zion from, you know, above meet

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Zion from below.
And so, yeah, I want to make

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that clear that that this is not
to and pardon the expression

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crap on anybody's beliefs, or
anybody's organizations, or

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anybody's desire to be
independent.

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That's not what we're saying.
What we're saying is that these

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are, you know, this is an
archetype and maybe something

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worth looking into.
And I did like what you said

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there too.
Also tailor that that this is by

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no means authoritative.
This is an idea.

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This is this is a hypothesis.
You're still working through if

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I'm not mistaken.
Oh yeah, yes.

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And I think that one of the
thing that we can just I mean

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we're going to be reviewing this
at the end to because this is

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one of the big takeaways but you
know we have all of us have

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these Traditions.
Mhm.

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You're born into the church.
You think that's the one?

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True church?
You think that President Nelson

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is the one man.
And and, you know, you you look

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at very are LDS or fundamental
is break off groups or

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Independence and we have a
tendency to kind of look down on

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those poor benighted.
Souls that have gone astray.

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Meanwhile, people that are born
into the are LDS or the flds or

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whatever other branches they are
thinking will are guys the one

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man and you know, we're the only
ones that have legitimate

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Authority.
We're the only ones that Are,

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you know, actually not astray
and all of the other people.

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I'm so it breeds this
competitive Spirit of emnity and

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and division.
The thing that really I think

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brings it home.
And why I think that the spirit

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has kind of resonated that the
side that this kind of model

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resonates with me, is it just
drives home the fact that we're

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all part of the restoration?
No matter what branch you come

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from, or where you go to church
on Sunday, we are all.

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We have we have so much in
common, we believe in the Book

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of Mormon, we believe in the
prophetic role of Joseph Smith,

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we believe in the Savior and the
atonement.

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And and maybe there are
different levels of corruption

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in each of these branches.
But there are good solid.

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Humble faithful people in every
single branch.

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And, you know, and I've made
friends with most of these

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branches and, and my Prejudices
have been completely dissolved.

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The more the better I get to
know now it doesn't mean I'm

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blind to some of the
institutional problems in pretty

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much all of these branches.
But you know, there's one other

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thing before we kind of dive in
because like we've mentioned it

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does point out some specific
flops.

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I think that it's important to
kind of keep in mind while these

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are maybe General themes that
are, you know, the unique

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problems in general of a certain
Branch, you know, I might be in

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the church.
And we might be reading about

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one of these break off branches
and I might still have that

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problem, even if I'm in the
church or vice versa, you know,

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some of the problems in the
church, even though these are

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kind of generic themes of these
different branches.

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It's not a purse.
It's not a, like perfect thing

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for every individual people are
all different.

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You know, there might be a
saintly person within this

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branch.
That doesn't deal with the

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problems.
Kind of General to that branch

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of the restoration.
Ian.

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But he may, or she may have
problems that are kind of

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generic to some of these other
branches or we may have all of

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the problems personally, you
know.

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And so these are just general
themes not to be applied to

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every individual Within These
branches, right?

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Yeah.
But the other big takeaway is

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despite all these flaws.
Despite these divisions in these

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separations, God can work with
us and we have different roles.

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Play as these winding up scenes,
get darker and darker and, and

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the pressures Mount.
We don't have to like, if I'm in

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this particular branch of the
restoration, I don't have to

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have all the pressure of man, we
got to do everything.

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I think it's good and very Faith
promoting and hope hope building

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to recognize that that we're not
alone.

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You know?
We're not on island, we have

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other allies, whether they go to
church at the same place with us

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on Sunday or not.
God.

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Is working with various branches
and all of his promises will be

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fulfilled.
And we may have a key part to

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play in that whole drama that is
that we're watching in real-time

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unfold, but we're not alone and
we also shouldn't have other

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people that don't go to church
with us on Sunday.

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Yeah, yeah.
Well in you know, I'm not here

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to tell someone.
They're guys not the guy, right?

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00:14:24,700 --> 00:14:30,200
I mean certainly I have my my
feelings on it but I think

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there's value here whether
that's from an Institutional

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standpoint really like you were
just saying even from an

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individual standpoint you know
as we get into some of the

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critiques that the Lord has for,
for the seven churches.

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I think probably even more
importantly than looking at the

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institution is you better look
at your own heart to, you better

250
00:14:49,500 --> 00:14:51,800
figure out if you're guilty of
some of these things.

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Can you can you make changes in
your own personal life to make

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00:14:55,700 --> 00:15:00,800
them, make them better?
Not a Cent and it's also

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interesting since there are
flaws in all of them to note

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that Isaiah I believe it's
chapter 28 talks about vomit on

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all tables and so like we
shouldn't ever get like, you

256
00:15:15,000 --> 00:15:19,000
know, prideful or arrogant or
thinking that we're the one good

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branch and everybody else.
There's vomit on all tables.

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If Isaiah's prophecy is
applicable to our day, which I

259
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have 100% believe it is and so
it's very valuable from I'm a

260
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organizational like
institutional perspective, but

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since we, since you and I were
not, we're not in charge of the

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institutions where we go to
church on Sunday, we're just in

263
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charge of me.
And so to apply that at a

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personal level brings
opportunities for personal

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repentance and forgiveness and
sanctification.

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And at the end of the day
institution and organization is

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00:15:51,800 --> 00:15:54,200
important.
I mean, Joseph Joseph, spent his

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00:15:54,200 --> 00:15:57,300
whole life trying to build
institutions and organizations

269
00:15:58,100 --> 00:16:02,800
but The atonement is personal,
sanctification is personal,

270
00:16:03,100 --> 00:16:06,900
exaltation is personal and
ultimately these, these

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Collective accomplishments have
to be built on the personal

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achievements of every
participant in them.

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00:16:14,300 --> 00:16:17,500
Yeah, if we're trying to mimic
what Joseph did, which was built

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societies, right?
Build build communities.

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The the basic building block is
the individual, then the family,

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00:16:26,100 --> 00:16:31,600
then the, then the community.
And so, so if you want a good

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Community, you need to make sure
you're doing your part by being

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Because I kind of feel icky say
in this a good citizen of that

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Community, right?
Normally when I hear the term

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good citizen.
You're right.

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00:16:44,500 --> 00:16:47,900
I can't remember.
Yeah, yeah, I get a little

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00:16:47,900 --> 00:16:51,200
nervous.
But anyway, I guess we're still

283
00:16:51,200 --> 00:16:57,700
too close to covid-19 long way,
but anyway, all right, let's dig

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00:16:57,700 --> 00:16:58,900
into it.
Where do you want to start?

285
00:16:58,900 --> 00:17:01,700
So let's dive in.
Let's just start it.

286
00:17:01,900 --> 00:17:06,000
So we're going to be focusing on
the first three chapters of the

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00:17:06,000 --> 00:17:08,300
book.
Revelation in the New Testament

288
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and we'll start with 2:1.
So chapter 1, just a quick

289
00:17:13,300 --> 00:17:16,800
overview.
These are various, it's like the

290
00:17:16,800 --> 00:17:21,599
introduction and its various
titles and names and roles of

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00:17:21,599 --> 00:17:23,599
Christ.
And I think that it's

292
00:17:23,599 --> 00:17:26,599
interesting, it's fascinating
because these different

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00:17:26,599 --> 00:17:30,200
references are repeated
throughout chapters 2 and 3.

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As each of the different
churches are being addressed in

295
00:17:32,900 --> 00:17:37,200
this letter from John.
He say he He's basically saying

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00:17:37,700 --> 00:17:42,700
these are the words of you know
in verse 1 of chapter 2 unto the

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00:17:42,700 --> 00:17:45,800
angel of the Church of Ephesus,
write these things saith, he

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00:17:45,800 --> 00:17:49,700
that holdeth the Seven Stars in
his right hand, who walketh in

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00:17:49,700 --> 00:17:53,100
the midst of the seven golden
candlesticks and that is a

300
00:17:53,100 --> 00:17:56,600
direct quote of the last verse
of chapter 1, where it talks

301
00:17:56,600 --> 00:18:02,900
about how Christ is the is
speaking and the stars are these

302
00:18:02,900 --> 00:18:05,800
different Angels or
Representatives or messengers of

303
00:18:05,800 --> 00:18:07,500
the seventh.
She's in the candlesticks are

304
00:18:07,500 --> 00:18:11,200
these seven churches.
So this is just every time, Joe,

305
00:18:12,100 --> 00:18:16,100
John introduces and kind of
segues into the next church that

306
00:18:16,100 --> 00:18:20,500
he's addressing.
He reminds us the readers that

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00:18:20,500 --> 00:18:24,900
this is not him speaking as John
the man, he is speaking, the

308
00:18:24,900 --> 00:18:31,000
words of Christ.
So Ephesus is the first church

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00:18:31,200 --> 00:18:34,500
2:2.
I Know, Thy works and thy

310
00:18:34,500 --> 00:18:39,000
Labour, and thy patience.
It's and now how Kent's how thou

311
00:18:39,000 --> 00:18:41,400
canst?
Not bear them which are evil and

312
00:18:41,400 --> 00:18:44,500
now has tried them which say
they are Apostles and are not

313
00:18:44,700 --> 00:18:50,600
and Hast found them Liars.
Now Ephesus is a really

314
00:18:50,600 --> 00:18:54,100
interesting church because they
have not allowed false teachers,

315
00:18:54,400 --> 00:18:58,400
or false Apostles to infiltrate
them and gain influence within

316
00:18:58,400 --> 00:19:04,100
their, within their community.
And they do many good works like

317
00:19:04,100 --> 00:19:05,700
their sounds like they're very
industrious.

318
00:19:05,700 --> 00:19:08,400
They have.
And Labour and patience and they

319
00:19:08,400 --> 00:19:13,100
don't have any patience for the
evil people and the deceivers in

320
00:19:13,108 --> 00:19:16,400
the imposters.
So this is I think a really good

321
00:19:16,400 --> 00:19:19,200
like Commendation of the church
at Ephesus.

322
00:19:20,200 --> 00:19:24,400
And in continues into verse 3, a
few more kind of Praises thou

323
00:19:24,400 --> 00:19:28,000
Hast borne and Hast patience and
for my name's sake Hast,

324
00:19:28,000 --> 00:19:31,800
laboured and Hast not fainted.
So they've been working hard for

325
00:19:31,800 --> 00:19:35,200
Christ's sake without fainting.
That's that's fabulous.

326
00:19:36,500 --> 00:19:41,200
Nevertheless, I have somewhat
against thee because thou Hast

327
00:19:41,200 --> 00:19:45,200
left thy first love, so this
first church Ephesus.

328
00:19:45,900 --> 00:19:49,900
Their problem, I believe is that
they have neglected, the

329
00:19:49,900 --> 00:19:54,600
Preparatory gospel.
You know, the first love would

330
00:19:54,600 --> 00:19:58,600
be the good news of Jesus is
atonement.

331
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You know, the first works of
Faith repentance, baptism some

332
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of these Preparatory things that
are getting neglected.

333
00:20:06,800 --> 00:20:09,500
And, and so, this was the first
clue.

334
00:20:09,500 --> 00:20:12,100
This is this can't be applying
to the church because they've

335
00:20:12,100 --> 00:20:14,500
always emphasized the missionary
efforts, they've always

336
00:20:14,500 --> 00:20:19,900
emphasized these, these
Preparatory gospel things, but

337
00:20:19,900 --> 00:20:24,800
but various fundamental, People
that I've met there have been

338
00:20:24,800 --> 00:20:29,600
some times that I've heard that.
Oh yeah, we we didn't do any of

339
00:20:29,600 --> 00:20:33,800
the things like endowments or
any of these other ordinances

340
00:20:34,000 --> 00:20:37,400
because we were only supposed to
do plural, marriage and nothing

341
00:20:37,400 --> 00:20:41,500
else and you know, so it was
just like, that's what and I

342
00:20:41,500 --> 00:20:46,900
think that that is this is just
a gentle admonition that they

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00:20:46,900 --> 00:20:51,200
need to repent.
And and so continuing in verse

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00:20:51,200 --> 00:20:54,600
5, Remember therefore from
whence Thou Art fallen and

345
00:20:54,600 --> 00:21:01,400
repent and do the first works.
So again the first Works, what

346
00:21:01,400 --> 00:21:03,700
are the first works?
You know, if you look at

347
00:21:03,700 --> 00:21:07,200
articles of Faith number for
faith in Jesus Christ,

348
00:21:07,200 --> 00:21:11,900
repentance, baptism for
remission of sins, confirmation

349
00:21:11,900 --> 00:21:14,600
receiving the gift of the Holy
Ghost, I would even continue

350
00:21:14,600 --> 00:21:21,400
that into some of the other
ordinances Sacrament, you know,

351
00:21:21,500 --> 00:21:26,000
baby blessings.
These things that we if I still

352
00:21:26,000 --> 00:21:28,400
like, for me and you we have our
background in the church.

353
00:21:28,500 --> 00:21:31,700
Church and kind of just take for
granted but many fundamentalist

354
00:21:31,700 --> 00:21:35,600
kind of have forgotten or
neglected to do those types of

355
00:21:35,600 --> 00:21:37,900
things.
And so this is just an

356
00:21:37,900 --> 00:21:45,700
invitation to Repent and and,
you know, restore some things

357
00:21:45,700 --> 00:21:48,000
because it says Thou Art Fallen,
you know.

358
00:21:48,000 --> 00:21:51,300
So they're missing out on many
blessings because they are not

359
00:21:51,300 --> 00:21:53,800
doing some of these foundational
Preparatory things.

360
00:21:54,100 --> 00:21:58,900
The other thing is, you know, in
the for 30s and 40s, you know,

361
00:21:58,900 --> 00:22:02,200
if you were if we were our age
in the 30s and we were looking

362
00:22:02,200 --> 00:22:06,300
at some of the problems in the
church, you know, making

363
00:22:06,300 --> 00:22:10,200
decisions that we disagreed with
and didn't find in harmony with

364
00:22:10,200 --> 00:22:13,000
with our testimonies.
It's one thing for us because we

365
00:22:13,000 --> 00:22:15,900
would have probably received our
endowment from the church and

366
00:22:15,900 --> 00:22:20,300
been through the temple.
And so, like, in those days, I

367
00:22:20,300 --> 00:22:23,300
can kind of understand that
sentiment that some of the, you

368
00:22:23,300 --> 00:22:25,200
know, the grandparents
great-grandparents.

369
00:22:25,800 --> 00:22:30,300
Well, it, they expected.
This would be a very temporary

370
00:22:30,300 --> 00:22:33,900
and brief Division, and that the
church would be set in order.

371
00:22:33,900 --> 00:22:35,500
And there would be a
Reconciliation, they could come

372
00:22:35,500 --> 00:22:40,600
back into the fold, the problem
is 20 30 years pass and now

373
00:22:40,600 --> 00:22:41,800
their children.
Adults.

374
00:22:42,200 --> 00:22:44,600
And then another 20 30, 40 years
passed and now their

375
00:22:44,600 --> 00:22:47,000
grandchildren are a band and
they have not had those

376
00:22:47,000 --> 00:22:50,900
opportunities that they did to
to attend the temple to receive

377
00:22:50,900 --> 00:22:54,400
the these things that had been
at least to some degree

378
00:22:54,400 --> 00:22:59,600
preserved within the church and
many of these children of these

379
00:22:59,700 --> 00:23:03,700
of these early fundamentalists,
kind of just got lost along the

380
00:23:03,708 --> 00:23:09,100
way.
And so, and so, I believe that

381
00:23:09,100 --> 00:23:14,600
this Ephesus apply Rise to many
of those folks who, you know.

382
00:23:15,000 --> 00:23:19,200
So this this this is unique that
they have never allowed an a

383
00:23:19,200 --> 00:23:22,900
false Apostle or a false teacher
or evil to kind of gain

384
00:23:22,900 --> 00:23:26,300
influence among them.
But the problem with that is,

385
00:23:27,000 --> 00:23:31,400
you know, when a false leader
arose, they had to break away.

386
00:23:31,500 --> 00:23:34,400
And so it's it just causes more
and more fractures and more and

387
00:23:34,400 --> 00:23:40,200
more divisions as time passes.
But again, yeah, real quick

388
00:23:40,600 --> 00:23:42,200
because I'll I'll be honest with
you.

389
00:23:44,100 --> 00:23:49,800
What John Taylor said at the 18?
The eight hour meeting, excuse

390
00:23:49,800 --> 00:23:52,800
me.
He should be up for quite a

391
00:23:52,800 --> 00:23:56,000
while where he was explicit.
Don't start another church.

392
00:23:57,500 --> 00:24:01,900
And so that, that really, that
trip me up for a long time,

393
00:24:01,900 --> 00:24:05,400
trying to work, work around
that, because I was like, well,

394
00:24:05,400 --> 00:24:07,500
for not supposed to start
another church, then what are we

395
00:24:07,500 --> 00:24:10,400
supposed to do?
And so, I think that maybe some

396
00:24:10,400 --> 00:24:16,100
of that was even born out of of
the, the major grandpappy of

397
00:24:16,400 --> 00:24:20,200
fundamentalism, right?
John Taylor, and so portable, I

398
00:24:20,200 --> 00:24:23,000
think that that's something that
we have to take into account.

399
00:24:23,000 --> 00:24:29,200
And that's the other thing I
want to say is that I don't want

400
00:24:29,200 --> 00:24:34,800
anyone to feel like anybody,
whether their independence or in

401
00:24:34,800 --> 00:24:37,500
a group set out to do the wrong
thing, I don't think that was it

402
00:24:37,500 --> 00:24:40,300
at all.
I think this was all born out of

403
00:24:40,900 --> 00:24:46,000
a Time Of Confusion.
And yeah, just wanted to get

404
00:24:46,000 --> 00:24:49,700
that out there that, that 100%,
that, that this isn't something

405
00:24:49,700 --> 00:24:53,300
that was born out of not wanting
to live the gospel fully.

406
00:24:53,300 --> 00:24:56,600
It was just a Matter of what do
you do?

407
00:24:56,600 --> 00:24:59,900
I mean, there was a lot of
conflicting messages going on in

408
00:24:59,900 --> 00:25:03,500
this time, Right.
Yeah, and so, yeah, that's

409
00:25:03,500 --> 00:25:07,200
really important to kind of, you
know, get out in the open, is

410
00:25:07,200 --> 00:25:09,900
there.
None of this show is intended as

411
00:25:09,900 --> 00:25:14,400
a criticism, or like, finding
fault with anybody because we

412
00:25:14,400 --> 00:25:16,300
can easily apply this to
ourselves.

413
00:25:16,600 --> 00:25:19,600
How many times have I personally
neglected?

414
00:25:19,800 --> 00:25:23,500
My first love the atonement, you
know, applying the atonement in

415
00:25:23,500 --> 00:25:27,800
my life being more kind, in my,
in dealings, with my family and

416
00:25:27,800 --> 00:25:30,300
my filament.
Like, so, while this may be kind

417
00:25:30,300 --> 00:25:33,700
of an Arching theme of one of
these branches of the

418
00:25:33,700 --> 00:25:38,400
restoration, one of these
churches, we none of us is

419
00:25:38,400 --> 00:25:40,800
perfect.
I'm not speaking from a position

420
00:25:40,800 --> 00:25:44,900
of well, I've never neglected
the Preparatory gospel because I

421
00:25:44,900 --> 00:25:49,000
think all of us have room to
improve in those areas.

422
00:25:49,400 --> 00:25:52,400
And so I'm not speaking
critically or by way of

423
00:25:52,400 --> 00:25:56,800
condemnation of any individuals
living or dead, right?

424
00:25:57,800 --> 00:26:03,300
But hopefully, we can find Value
in connecting some of these dots

425
00:26:03,400 --> 00:26:05,700
and learning from some of these
past mistakes.

426
00:26:06,200 --> 00:26:07,500
That's My Hope.
Yeah.

427
00:26:07,500 --> 00:26:10,800
And going through this loop
size, so there's a couple more

428
00:26:10,800 --> 00:26:14,400
verses of Ephesus.
So now, we're in verse 6 of

429
00:26:14,400 --> 00:26:17,700
Revelation is too, but this thou
Hast so.

430
00:26:17,800 --> 00:26:21,300
So they have this thing going
for him, thou hatest the Deeds

431
00:26:21,300 --> 00:26:24,300
of the Nicolaitans, which I also
hate.

432
00:26:25,100 --> 00:26:27,600
So who tries to Nickel, Nickel
Athens?

433
00:26:28,000 --> 00:26:31,600
Yeah.
So I had studied this years ago

434
00:26:31,600 --> 00:26:34,700
I had to do a refresher though.
I remembered some of the vague

435
00:26:34,700 --> 00:26:41,000
you know high level details.
The Nicolaitans were basically a

436
00:26:41,000 --> 00:26:45,900
band of secret combinations in
the first century ad and they

437
00:26:45,900 --> 00:26:51,300
were kind of like a, you know,
Illuminati before the Illuminati

438
00:26:51,300 --> 00:26:54,800
ever existed.
But they taught in secret, they

439
00:26:54,800 --> 00:26:59,800
had kind of their secret agendas
and plans and one Of their main

440
00:26:59,800 --> 00:27:04,800
things that they loved to teach
was basically Indulgence you

441
00:27:04,800 --> 00:27:07,600
know kind of if you're familiar
with that term from Catholic

442
00:27:07,600 --> 00:27:14,800
history that basically if you
achieved a certain level of you

443
00:27:14,800 --> 00:27:18,200
know advancement within the
priesthood or whatever that you

444
00:27:18,200 --> 00:27:22,700
kind of were Exempted from
lesser Grievances and offenses.

445
00:27:23,000 --> 00:27:27,100
Now there is some truth, a small
grain of Kernel of Truth to that

446
00:27:27,100 --> 00:27:32,000
idea if Look at section 132 and
some of the promises of the

447
00:27:32,400 --> 00:27:34,000
second anointing.
And some of those highest

448
00:27:34,000 --> 00:27:37,800
sealing ordinances that
basically, you know, but it

449
00:27:37,800 --> 00:27:41,200
doesn't make any allowances for
sin and that's the that's the

450
00:27:41,200 --> 00:27:43,800
perversion that these
Nicolaitans would love to bring

451
00:27:43,800 --> 00:27:45,400
in.
And say, well, we have a change,

452
00:27:45,400 --> 00:27:47,200
we've attained unto this
position.

453
00:27:47,500 --> 00:27:49,500
So we don't have to worry about
repentance anymore.

454
00:27:49,500 --> 00:27:52,000
We don't have to worry about
these lesser things like we're

455
00:27:52,000 --> 00:27:57,100
living a higher law where exempt
from the lower laws and and it

456
00:27:57,100 --> 00:28:03,000
leads to To idolatry it leads to
ride in a big way.

457
00:28:03,000 --> 00:28:09,300
And it just, it it is very
anathema, to the Gospel of Jesus

458
00:28:09,300 --> 00:28:15,200
Christ, right?
So it's so these first few

459
00:28:15,200 --> 00:28:18,300
verses have have addressed
Ephesus, its described some of

460
00:28:18,300 --> 00:28:21,200
their, you know, the good things
that they have going formats

461
00:28:21,200 --> 00:28:22,700
describes, some of their
problems.

462
00:28:22,700 --> 00:28:28,300
And, and, and now in verse 7, He
that hath an ear, let him hear

463
00:28:28,400 --> 00:28:32,200
what the spirit saith unto the
churches to him that overcometh.

464
00:28:32,200 --> 00:28:35,100
Now we're going to see this
repeated seven different times

465
00:28:35,100 --> 00:28:39,000
as we go through the churches.
It's addressing people who have

466
00:28:39,000 --> 00:28:42,900
their ears open who are
receptive to the workings of the

467
00:28:42,900 --> 00:28:46,100
spirit and the invitation of
Christ to him that overcometh.

468
00:28:46,100 --> 00:28:48,700
In other words, anyone that
overcomes these particular

469
00:28:48,700 --> 00:28:52,800
faults with in Ephesus.
Will I give to eat of the tree

470
00:28:52,800 --> 00:28:55,300
of life which is in the midst of
the paradise of God.

471
00:28:56,900 --> 00:29:02,600
Now, you know, our Mormon are
our axis to the Book of Mormon

472
00:29:02,600 --> 00:29:06,800
and lehi's vision of the Tree of
Life, rise, even greater depth

473
00:29:06,800 --> 00:29:09,600
to the beauty of this promise.
And we know that that is a

474
00:29:09,600 --> 00:29:13,500
representation of partaking of
the love of God, obtaining a

475
00:29:13,508 --> 00:29:18,000
remission of our sins.
And you know, just that joy that

476
00:29:18,000 --> 00:29:25,400
surpasses understanding awesome.
So maybe we'll go through the

477
00:29:25,400 --> 00:29:27,900
different churches and then I'll
kind of at the end.

478
00:29:27,900 --> 00:29:32,400
Maybe I'll give the names of the
different groups that I think

479
00:29:32,400 --> 00:29:36,400
may fit and, you know, but maybe
should we go through the rest of

480
00:29:36,408 --> 00:29:38,600
the churches and then we'll do
that at the end.

481
00:29:38,600 --> 00:29:41,100
Let's let's go through through
the rest of the churches.

482
00:29:41,500 --> 00:29:45,900
And if you're not comfortable
given a name, To the modern day

483
00:29:45,900 --> 00:29:49,600
church has, that's okay?
We, I can, I can have people

484
00:29:49,600 --> 00:29:51,300
reach out.
It's up to you whatever you want

485
00:29:51,300 --> 00:29:55,400
to do, it's not that I'm not
comfortable, it's just that I I

486
00:29:55,400 --> 00:29:58,100
hesitate because I'm not
speaking authoritative, we hear

487
00:29:59,500 --> 00:30:03,400
that, you know, I wouldn't want
somebody who happens to be long

488
00:30:03,400 --> 00:30:08,600
to one of those churches, right
offended that I may be speaking

489
00:30:08,700 --> 00:30:13,300
harshly against their grandpa,
what I think.

490
00:30:15,000 --> 00:30:17,200
I think there is still value to
identify that but let's go

491
00:30:17,200 --> 00:30:20,300
through all of them and kind of
look at it more at a principal

492
00:30:20,300 --> 00:30:25,700
level and then I'll Venture my
kind of feelings just from my

493
00:30:26,000 --> 00:30:30,000
own experience which is
admittedly incomplete and you

494
00:30:30,000 --> 00:30:31,900
know not perfect.
It's okay.

495
00:30:33,500 --> 00:30:37,800
Alright, the next Church begins
in 2:8 unto the angel of the

496
00:30:37,800 --> 00:30:41,100
church in Smyrna.
So the second church is Meredith

497
00:30:41,100 --> 00:30:43,600
these things.
Saith the first and the last,

498
00:30:43,600 --> 00:30:47,600
which was dead, and is alive.
And so, this is a reference to

499
00:30:48,000 --> 00:30:52,400
verses 17 and 18 of chapter 1.
Again, a reminder that Christ is

500
00:30:52,400 --> 00:30:56,100
the messenger, right?
Price is the source of this

501
00:30:56,100 --> 00:31:01,200
message, right?
So in verse 9, I Know Thy works

502
00:31:01,200 --> 00:31:05,000
and tribulation and poverty But
Thou Art rich.

503
00:31:06,100 --> 00:31:08,900
And I know the blasphemy of them
which say they are Jews and are

504
00:31:08,908 --> 00:31:11,500
not, but are the synagogue of
Satan.

505
00:31:13,100 --> 00:31:19,200
And now this is really
interesting because it, you

506
00:31:19,200 --> 00:31:20,900
know, and I guess I should have
said.

507
00:31:20,900 --> 00:31:25,100
So there this this Church Smyrna
is described as Works

508
00:31:25,100 --> 00:31:29,100
tribulation poverty but then in
parentheses it says but Thou Art

509
00:31:29,100 --> 00:31:34,200
rich Okay, I think that this
relates to temporal poverty,

510
00:31:34,700 --> 00:31:40,800
right?
But spiritual abundance - so.

511
00:31:40,800 --> 00:31:44,400
Um poor poor, according to money
and wealth and all those.

512
00:31:44,400 --> 00:31:47,000
Oh yeah, they struggle
economically.

513
00:31:47,000 --> 00:31:50,300
They probably, you know, trying
to feed their families and just

514
00:31:50,300 --> 00:31:52,200
get by living,
paycheck-to-paycheck, whatever

515
00:31:52,200 --> 00:31:58,400
that looks like for many people.
They are doing work but they

516
00:31:58,400 --> 00:32:02,200
faced a lot of adversity and
Elation and they, a lot of that

517
00:32:02,200 --> 00:32:04,700
is due to their temporal
poverty.

518
00:32:04,900 --> 00:32:09,000
Gotcha.
And they, so this is this

519
00:32:09,000 --> 00:32:12,900
interesting, the one of my
friends, let's to call him fake

520
00:32:12,900 --> 00:32:14,700
Jews.
You know, people who say they

521
00:32:14,700 --> 00:32:16,900
are Jews but are not there.
The synagogue of Satan.

522
00:32:17,300 --> 00:32:19,800
Again Christ said by their
fruits, you shall know them.

523
00:32:19,900 --> 00:32:22,700
Many deacons many people can
say, Lord Lord have we not

524
00:32:22,700 --> 00:32:26,200
prophesied in thy name and done,
you know, even Christians, there

525
00:32:26,200 --> 00:32:28,800
are a lot of professing
Christians, even Mormons.

526
00:32:29,000 --> 00:32:32,000
There's a lot of Passing
Mormons, you look at a guy like,

527
00:32:33,000 --> 00:32:36,300
you know, maybe Harry Reid as an
example or, you know, people who

528
00:32:36,300 --> 00:32:39,600
claim to and identify as Mormon
and maybe they're even active

529
00:32:39,600 --> 00:32:41,800
and in good standing with the
church or whatever.

530
00:32:42,100 --> 00:32:47,100
But you look at the things that
ideas, their proponents pushing

531
00:32:47,100 --> 00:32:51,000
and the agendas that they're
trying to see take place and you

532
00:32:51,000 --> 00:32:53,500
align that with the scriptures
in, it doesn't fit at all.

533
00:32:53,500 --> 00:32:55,500
It's kind of like the opposite,
you know.

534
00:32:56,100 --> 00:33:00,100
Anyway so so yeah and I
mentioned Harry because he He's,

535
00:33:00,200 --> 00:33:03,900
he's dead, but I don't mean to
offend anybody, if you like

536
00:33:03,900 --> 00:33:07,400
Harry Reid.
But, you know, as a Utah

537
00:33:07,400 --> 00:33:09,600
conservative, I've always had
concerns.

538
00:33:09,600 --> 00:33:13,700
And my circle of friends and
family, we can all kind of agree

539
00:33:13,700 --> 00:33:14,000
that.
Yeah.

540
00:33:14,000 --> 00:33:16,700
Harry Reid wasn't, it wasn't a
great representative of the

541
00:33:16,700 --> 00:33:21,400
church in our opinion.
So but yeah, if it wasn't for

542
00:33:21,408 --> 00:33:25,200
that whole piske, you know,
abortion thing, and then the

543
00:33:25,200 --> 00:33:29,500
socialism thing and they all the
longer I mean, other than that,

544
00:33:29,500 --> 00:33:35,000
he's great.
He's right there, so yep.

545
00:33:35,600 --> 00:33:40,300
All right, so yeah, okay, so
continuing on verse 10, so again

546
00:33:40,300 --> 00:33:42,600
this is addressing smirnov
Church number to fear.

547
00:33:42,600 --> 00:33:47,000
None of those things which Thou
shalt suffer behold, the devil

548
00:33:47,000 --> 00:33:50,900
shall cast some of you into
prison that ye may be tried.

549
00:33:51,000 --> 00:33:53,200
Ye shall have tribulation ten
days.

550
00:33:53,900 --> 00:33:57,400
Be thou faithful unto death and
I will give thee a Crown of Life

551
00:33:58,700 --> 00:34:01,300
and so this, this Church of
Smyrna.

552
00:34:01,800 --> 00:34:05,200
It's describing some being cast
into prison experiencing all of

553
00:34:05,200 --> 00:34:09,600
this tribulation and some even
being murdered do not fear

554
00:34:09,600 --> 00:34:13,900
sufferings or these tests.
I faithful and their promised to

555
00:34:13,900 --> 00:34:22,600
receive a crown identify this as
kind of loosely the

556
00:34:22,600 --> 00:34:27,000
independence.
You know, people who are kind of

557
00:34:27,000 --> 00:34:30,800
independent Mormons.
They don't have Lot of the

558
00:34:31,199 --> 00:34:34,100
protections of a community.
They're kind of more like, you

559
00:34:34,100 --> 00:34:36,699
know, just on their own in the
wilderness and they're

560
00:34:36,699 --> 00:34:39,500
surrounded by neighbors.
Who don't understand?

561
00:34:39,500 --> 00:34:44,100
They're being persecuted by
federal agents, who don't have

562
00:34:44,100 --> 00:34:47,699
any empathy and have no
compunction in enforcing the

563
00:34:47,707 --> 00:34:49,699
laws because they're a
standalone.

564
00:34:49,900 --> 00:34:52,000
Like, a lone wolf is an easy
target, you know?

565
00:34:52,600 --> 00:34:56,400
And, and I look at some of these
guys, you know, Ogden crowd,

566
00:34:56,400 --> 00:35:01,400
Kevin Kraut, some of the
independence.

567
00:35:01,600 --> 00:35:02,800
What was his name?
I think.

568
00:35:02,800 --> 00:35:06,900
John Singer was a man.
Who, if you've never heard of

569
00:35:06,900 --> 00:35:09,600
John Singer, he was an
independent Mormon

570
00:35:09,600 --> 00:35:13,700
fundamentalist, by all accounts.
An amazing guy, a wonderful

571
00:35:13,700 --> 00:35:19,500
father and patriarch over his
household but he was living the

572
00:35:19,500 --> 00:35:25,500
principle and in the 70s or 80s.
That was much more dangerous

573
00:35:26,000 --> 00:35:30,700
than it is even today.
There's there's risks in any You

574
00:35:30,700 --> 00:35:34,800
know, in this culture that we
live in, but he was especially

575
00:35:34,800 --> 00:35:39,400
vulnerable in that time, but
interestingly, they were never

576
00:35:39,400 --> 00:35:41,700
able to have, he went to prison
and stuff, but they were never

577
00:35:41,700 --> 00:35:46,200
able to, like, lock him away.
But what happened is, he was

578
00:35:46,200 --> 00:35:51,000
homeschooling and his, his
children were not enrolled in

579
00:35:51,008 --> 00:35:54,300
the public school system and so
that it got, you know,

580
00:35:54,800 --> 00:35:57,900
government agents involved and
long story short.

581
00:35:57,900 --> 00:36:01,100
He kind of had was like House
under house arrest, couldn't

582
00:36:01,100 --> 00:36:03,500
leave his property and because
they were waiting at all of the

583
00:36:03,500 --> 00:36:08,100
borders of his land and one day
for some reason he had to go and

584
00:36:08,100 --> 00:36:11,000
do something and he went out to
the edge of his property and he

585
00:36:11,000 --> 00:36:15,400
was murdered.
And so I like these guys

586
00:36:15,400 --> 00:36:19,600
religions I can't remember if it
was state or federal but yeah,

587
00:36:19,600 --> 00:36:24,900
it was it was government agents.
And so like these Independents

588
00:36:24,900 --> 00:36:30,900
are because they don't have that
Community Support structures and

589
00:36:30,900 --> 00:36:33,900
they're kind of more isolated.
I think that that leads to

590
00:36:33,900 --> 00:36:39,600
economic impoverishment, they're
much more easily able to

591
00:36:39,600 --> 00:36:43,700
struggle with economic things
Financial things, they're more

592
00:36:43,700 --> 00:36:48,500
vulnerable for being arrested.
Put in prison, having these

593
00:36:48,500 --> 00:36:52,800
persecutions and tribulations
come upon them and even, In the

594
00:36:52,800 --> 00:36:58,000
case of John Singer and various
others, paid the ultimate price

595
00:36:58,000 --> 00:37:00,000
with their lives for their
faith.

596
00:37:01,300 --> 00:37:07,200
Hmm.
So now the promises of Smyrna

597
00:37:07,200 --> 00:37:09,500
are interesting.
He that hath an ear, let him

598
00:37:09,500 --> 00:37:13,400
hear what the spirit saith.
He, that overcometh shall not be

599
00:37:13,400 --> 00:37:19,500
hurt of the second death.
So even if their faith and their

600
00:37:19,500 --> 00:37:22,300
sacrifices, their living,
according to their conscience,

601
00:37:22,600 --> 00:37:27,200
even if that results in losing
their life, they will not hurt

602
00:37:27,200 --> 00:37:30,100
of the second death.
In other words, they will

603
00:37:30,100 --> 00:37:32,600
inherit that crown.
On that it mentioned in verse 10

604
00:37:32,700 --> 00:37:37,300
of Life, they will be welcomed
into the fold of God on the

605
00:37:37,300 --> 00:37:43,000
other side.
So you know, I think that it's

606
00:37:43,000 --> 00:37:48,700
just, I think valuable to look
at, you know, the sacrifices,

607
00:37:48,700 --> 00:37:53,200
the various Independence like
you were talking about your time

608
00:37:53,500 --> 00:37:56,000
of trying to figure out well,
John Taylor said, don't start

609
00:37:56,000 --> 00:37:59,100
another church.
So now what, what do I do?

610
00:37:59,700 --> 00:38:03,700
You know?
He people feel in good in like

611
00:38:03,700 --> 00:38:07,300
in conscience that they're being
led, you know, maybe they're not

612
00:38:08,000 --> 00:38:10,900
accepted by the church, many of
them get excommunicated or they

613
00:38:10,900 --> 00:38:13,800
just don't attend, but they
don't for whatever reason feel

614
00:38:13,800 --> 00:38:16,200
led to join another
organization.

615
00:38:16,700 --> 00:38:20,500
And so they just do the best
they can as an independent and

616
00:38:20,500 --> 00:38:23,500
there's probably tens of
thousands, certainly many

617
00:38:23,500 --> 00:38:27,300
thousands of Independence out,
there may be some of them listen

618
00:38:27,300 --> 00:38:30,100
to this podcast.
And so I think it's valuable for

619
00:38:30,100 --> 00:38:34,700
us to recognize Nuys the risk
and the sacrifices and the you

620
00:38:34,700 --> 00:38:39,500
know, the strength that these
brothers and sisters have so

621
00:38:39,500 --> 00:38:43,900
root and that they are invited
as a church real quick.

622
00:38:45,100 --> 00:38:47,700
Mac and emphasis there was a
little bit of.

623
00:38:47,700 --> 00:38:51,800
Hey, you're doing this wrong.
What, what, what is the Lord

624
00:38:51,800 --> 00:38:55,400
saying that, that, that smearing
is doing wrong?

625
00:38:58,300 --> 00:39:00,500
So that's that's a good
question.

626
00:39:01,000 --> 00:39:05,600
I I don't know that I can point
to like a specific law.

627
00:39:07,600 --> 00:39:13,300
I mean, it's just more of a
statement of reality that they

628
00:39:13,300 --> 00:39:16,100
experience a lot of tribulation
and have poverty.

629
00:39:16,900 --> 00:39:19,300
Okay.
And so you know I wouldn't

630
00:39:19,300 --> 00:39:24,700
necessarily say that that God is
condemning them for but you

631
00:39:24,700 --> 00:39:28,000
know, I guess if they were to
experience tribulation and

632
00:39:28,000 --> 00:39:32,400
poverty and and these
persecutions and falter in their

633
00:39:32,400 --> 00:39:35,900
faith, I think that that would
be a problem.

634
00:39:35,900 --> 00:39:39,100
I think that is kind of
implicitly being warned against

635
00:39:39,200 --> 00:39:43,000
in Smyrna, because it's hard.
You know, if you're feeling

636
00:39:43,000 --> 00:39:46,600
alone all alone, it's you
against the world, it would be

637
00:39:46,600 --> 00:39:50,300
real easy to just say, you know,
what is this really worth it?

638
00:39:50,300 --> 00:39:53,100
I could I could just go back to
church or I could go join a

639
00:39:53,107 --> 00:39:56,100
group or I could just for go
Mormonism.

640
00:39:56,100 --> 00:39:58,300
Maybe you know, maybe this isn't
all, it's cracked up to be.

641
00:39:58,300 --> 00:40:01,800
And and and I think there are
some who falter in their

642
00:40:01,800 --> 00:40:06,500
testimonies And so when it
describes to him that

643
00:40:06,500 --> 00:40:09,800
overcometh, I think that that
somebody who overcomes that

644
00:40:09,800 --> 00:40:15,000
Temptation that weakness to deny
the faith and to falter in their

645
00:40:15,000 --> 00:40:16,700
testimonies.
Gotcha.

646
00:40:16,900 --> 00:40:21,800
Gotcha.
Do you think there's any Well,

647
00:40:22,300 --> 00:40:26,000
I'll leave that one alone.
Go ahead move on, you know, I

648
00:40:26,008 --> 00:40:29,500
guess another thing you could
say and I don't mean this to be

649
00:40:29,500 --> 00:40:33,500
come across harsh or critical of
any individuals, but I have

650
00:40:33,600 --> 00:40:38,200
talked with a few Independence
and you might say that because

651
00:40:38,200 --> 00:40:43,300
it specifically calls out the
they they're, you know, they're

652
00:40:43,300 --> 00:40:45,600
aware of the threat of the false
Jews.

653
00:40:45,600 --> 00:40:49,300
In the synagogue of Satan, there
is a little bit of a purpose.

654
00:40:49,400 --> 00:40:53,200
City amongst Independence to get
kind of really sucked into the

655
00:40:53,200 --> 00:41:00,500
conspiracy rabbit hole.
And you know, there are there

656
00:41:00,500 --> 00:41:04,000
are certainly conspiracy facts.
There are also conspiracy

657
00:41:04,000 --> 00:41:08,000
theories which are not based on
fact or objective reality.

658
00:41:08,400 --> 00:41:13,100
And so we have I guess maybe
this could be this is just my

659
00:41:13,100 --> 00:41:15,400
opinion.
I'm not speaking authoritatively

660
00:41:15,400 --> 00:41:18,300
or definitively or attributing
this to the Book of Revelation

661
00:41:18,300 --> 00:41:21,600
here.
Um, I think that you can go a

662
00:41:21,600 --> 00:41:25,600
little too far down the road
into like paranoia when it comes

663
00:41:25,600 --> 00:41:29,200
to conspiracy and so that would
maybe be something that the

664
00:41:29,200 --> 00:41:33,400
independence in this Smyrna
Branch could could profit from.

665
00:41:34,400 --> 00:41:38,800
Yeah, the other thing I was
thinking, is that If you're an

666
00:41:38,800 --> 00:41:45,900
island unto yourself, sometimes
you can get fixated even on an

667
00:41:45,900 --> 00:41:48,900
idea and there's no one to reel
you back in, right?

668
00:41:48,900 --> 00:41:51,800
Like come here brother, let's
talk about this and that's why

669
00:41:51,800 --> 00:41:53,800
I'm a Believer.
We all need each other, right?

670
00:41:53,800 --> 00:41:56,500
We need someone to be like Whoa,
man.

671
00:41:56,500 --> 00:42:00,300
You you you might be off
off-kilter on this one.

672
00:42:00,300 --> 00:42:03,700
Let's let's talk this through.
Right let's let's reason

673
00:42:03,700 --> 00:42:07,000
together as Paul says.
And so I think, I think maybe

674
00:42:07,000 --> 00:42:10,300
that's one of Of of the dangers,
so to speak.

675
00:42:10,800 --> 00:42:13,200
But yeah, that's good.
I'm gonna have to want to make

676
00:42:13,200 --> 00:42:15,900
it clear.
I know many many, many good

677
00:42:15,900 --> 00:42:20,100
independent fundamentalist,
right the majority certainly

678
00:42:20,100 --> 00:42:23,600
don't they stay sound they you
know they do a great job.

679
00:42:24,100 --> 00:42:27,500
So yeah.
Awesome.

680
00:42:28,400 --> 00:42:31,100
Alright, let's move into the
Third Church in.

681
00:42:31,100 --> 00:42:34,600
So we're now in verse 12 of
chapter 2 of relation to the

682
00:42:34,600 --> 00:42:38,800
angel of the church in pergamos,
write these things saith, he

683
00:42:38,800 --> 00:42:41,100
which hath the sharp sword with
two edges.

684
00:42:41,100 --> 00:42:45,600
So this is a reference to verse
16 of chapter 1 again, this is

685
00:42:45,600 --> 00:42:48,700
Christ speaking.
I Know Thy works and where thou

686
00:42:48,700 --> 00:42:54,500
dwellest even where Satan's seat
is and thou holdest fast my name

687
00:42:54,500 --> 00:42:56,800
and Hast.
Not Denied, my faith, even in

688
00:42:56,800 --> 00:43:01,300
those days, wherein Antipas was
my faithful martyr who was slain

689
00:43:01,300 --> 00:43:07,900
among you where Satan dwelleth.
So this is like it just repeats

690
00:43:07,900 --> 00:43:10,400
and kind of emphasizes over and
over that they're in close

691
00:43:10,400 --> 00:43:13,900
proximity to Satan's seat,
whatever that may mean.

692
00:43:14,700 --> 00:43:17,700
But they haven't denied Christ
name or the faith.

693
00:43:18,300 --> 00:43:21,500
And this is interesting that
there is a faithful martyr

694
00:43:21,600 --> 00:43:24,200
described amongst this.
This church of pergamos.

695
00:43:25,100 --> 00:43:29,000
So when you said they were
dwelling close to the seat of

696
00:43:29,000 --> 00:43:31,500
Satan, I was trying to see I was
trying to remember if there were

697
00:43:31,500 --> 00:43:35,500
any fundamentalist groups close
to the the IRS building but I'm

698
00:43:35,500 --> 00:43:37,000
drawing a blank.
Maybe you can.

699
00:43:39,200 --> 00:43:42,900
You know, there's there's, you
know, I'm not going to get too

700
00:43:42,900 --> 00:43:49,900
deep into Satan's team, but I
think it would be safe to say

701
00:43:49,900 --> 00:43:54,500
that there are there is a great
deal of satanic influence with

702
00:43:54,500 --> 00:43:59,000
in Salt Lake.
And so my guess is that this

703
00:43:59,000 --> 00:44:03,400
would be describing a group in
close proximity to the Salt

704
00:44:03,400 --> 00:44:07,400
Lake, Valley Draught you and
we'll kind of go into more like,

705
00:44:07,500 --> 00:44:10,600
Like details the specifics at
the end here.

706
00:44:10,800 --> 00:44:16,900
The Martyr is an interesting
detail of this one and now going

707
00:44:16,900 --> 00:44:21,000
into verse 14, I have a few
things against thee, so here's

708
00:44:21,100 --> 00:44:23,700
kind of a list of grievances
Christ is going through, but

709
00:44:23,700 --> 00:44:25,800
before we go there, can I ask
you a question?

710
00:44:26,300 --> 00:44:30,900
Yeah, let's let's talk about
Antipas for a little bit for a

711
00:44:30,900 --> 00:44:35,700
minute, who was he Who has a
good question.

712
00:44:35,900 --> 00:44:38,100
I looked into it.
I can't remember what I found.

713
00:44:38,800 --> 00:44:41,600
Okay.
Yes my bad.

714
00:44:41,600 --> 00:44:44,900
I should have no no.
You're good.

715
00:44:44,900 --> 00:44:46,800
You're good dude.
These are questions.

716
00:44:46,800 --> 00:44:49,100
I come up with off the cuff so I
don't expect anyone.

717
00:44:49,100 --> 00:44:52,700
Yeah.
And if anybody feels that's

718
00:44:52,700 --> 00:44:56,900
important and I we can give a
follow-up in the notes II looked

719
00:44:56,900 --> 00:45:00,600
in a few months ago, but I don't
remember and so I don't want to

720
00:45:01,200 --> 00:45:03,400
say anything wrong.
Nope, you're good.

721
00:45:04,700 --> 00:45:08,500
So, going into verse 14, the
list of grievances, I have a few

722
00:45:08,500 --> 00:45:12,200
things against thee because thou
Hast them, there them that hold

723
00:45:12,200 --> 00:45:17,000
the doctrine of Balaam.
Who taught block to cast a

724
00:45:17,000 --> 00:45:21,100
stumbling block before the
children of Israel to eat things

725
00:45:21,100 --> 00:45:24,600
sacrificed unto idols, and to
commit fornication.

726
00:45:25,600 --> 00:45:31,100
So this third Church pergamos.
They have a problem in that,

727
00:45:31,100 --> 00:45:34,600
some of them, hold this doctrine
of Balaam and and the doctrine

728
00:45:34,600 --> 00:45:40,500
of Balaam is that they set up
its idolatry is the ancient

729
00:45:41,000 --> 00:45:46,300
correlation and and so they
Would create these Idols that

730
00:45:46,300 --> 00:45:49,900
they would worship and then they
would give offerings to the

731
00:45:49,900 --> 00:45:54,300
idols.
And the people will, you know,

732
00:45:54,300 --> 00:46:00,200
the leaders would take that
offering that was given to, you

733
00:46:00,200 --> 00:46:04,000
know, that was sacrificed to the
idols and and enrich themselves

734
00:46:04,000 --> 00:46:06,900
with it.
And so, I would, I would submit

735
00:46:06,900 --> 00:46:11,600
that, you know, I think idolatry
can take many forms.

736
00:46:11,900 --> 00:46:17,800
I think one form of idolatry.
Could easily be L worship.

737
00:46:18,200 --> 00:46:23,400
Now, this is kind of putting a
leader up on a pedestal and

738
00:46:23,400 --> 00:46:29,000
saying that this leader is, you
know, our intercessor, you know,

739
00:46:29,000 --> 00:46:31,700
you know, we talked to this
leader, the leader talks to

740
00:46:31,700 --> 00:46:34,900
Christ Christ, talks to the
father and so we set up this

741
00:46:35,200 --> 00:46:37,500
this kind of gatekeeper if you
will.

742
00:46:37,900 --> 00:46:43,000
I've actually heard some people
literally refer to the

743
00:46:43,000 --> 00:46:44,600
leadership as kind of The
Gatekeepers.

744
00:46:44,700 --> 00:46:50,500
Keepers for the people.
And and so I think that it's

745
00:46:50,500 --> 00:46:56,900
it's wise for us to check and
say, am I putting my leaders too

746
00:46:56,900 --> 00:47:02,200
high on a pedestal to the point
of almost leader Worship in the

747
00:47:02,200 --> 00:47:04,600
sense of like, well I'm going to
just do whatever they tell me

748
00:47:04,600 --> 00:47:07,100
because well, they're speaking
for the Lord, their the Lord's

749
00:47:07,100 --> 00:47:10,000
representative their the prophet
or that, you know, whatever you

750
00:47:10,000 --> 00:47:13,200
want to call it there, you know,
speaking for God.

751
00:47:13,200 --> 00:47:16,400
And if we if we Begin to do
that.

752
00:47:16,400 --> 00:47:19,900
We're doing what Nephi describes
as putting our trust in the arm

753
00:47:19,900 --> 00:47:22,200
of Flesh.
We're putting our trust in a man

754
00:47:22,500 --> 00:47:27,200
rather than in God.
All sorts of, you know, and I'm

755
00:47:27,200 --> 00:47:32,300
not saying this like critically
or to condemn anybody because I

756
00:47:32,500 --> 00:47:35,900
myself was kind of raised up in
these traditions of, you know,

757
00:47:35,900 --> 00:47:39,100
just follow the Brethren.
Follow the prophet that the God

758
00:47:39,100 --> 00:47:41,200
won't allow the prophet to lead
the church astray.

759
00:47:41,200 --> 00:47:44,600
These types of traditions are
very pervasive.

760
00:47:44,700 --> 00:47:49,700
Massive with in almost all
branches of Mormonism and and

761
00:47:49,700 --> 00:47:55,600
and I think that it's a danger
to ever put the decisions and

762
00:47:55,600 --> 00:47:59,900
the teachings of men more
important than getting personal

763
00:47:59,900 --> 00:48:02,800
revelation with heaven to
ourselves.

764
00:48:04,400 --> 00:48:08,000
You know, I remember because
that was a major concern for me

765
00:48:08,000 --> 00:48:09,700
before I joined a group.
Right?

766
00:48:09,700 --> 00:48:12,600
It really was.
I was I'd been down that road

767
00:48:12,600 --> 00:48:16,700
once before and I was like Like
I'm kind of gun-shy about this

768
00:48:16,700 --> 00:48:19,100
whole thing of this kind of
structure again.

769
00:48:20,800 --> 00:48:23,000
And I'm glad you phrased it the
way you did.

770
00:48:23,000 --> 00:48:29,000
It becomes a problem when you
put the man before God, right?

771
00:48:29,600 --> 00:48:34,700
If it and, and one of the things
I saw that was refreshing and

772
00:48:34,700 --> 00:48:38,900
I'll say this, only I believe
it's this way in a lot of

773
00:48:38,900 --> 00:48:43,300
fundamentalist groups is that
it's almost another witness,

774
00:48:43,500 --> 00:48:46,200
right?
And so you get your Revelation,

775
00:48:46,200 --> 00:48:49,300
you go, you say, this is what I
got, right?

776
00:48:49,400 --> 00:48:51,200
I am a big fan of file
leadership.

777
00:48:51,200 --> 00:48:54,200
I think it can really keep us
out of a lot of stumbling

778
00:48:54,200 --> 00:48:57,600
blocks.
Sometimes just just a second

779
00:48:57,600 --> 00:49:00,400
witness in the mouth of two or
three Witnesses, all things are

780
00:49:00,400 --> 00:49:03,800
established and I don't think
that's necessarily bad I think

781
00:49:03,800 --> 00:49:06,000
when it becomes bad as what
again.

782
00:49:07,800 --> 00:49:10,800
What, what you saw with Warren
Jeffs, right?

783
00:49:10,800 --> 00:49:15,400
When he said no, no, everything
comes through me, you don't get

784
00:49:15,400 --> 00:49:19,000
to have an opinion and you will
bow.

785
00:49:19,000 --> 00:49:21,300
The knee to me and then I'll go
bail.

786
00:49:21,300 --> 00:49:25,100
The need to the Savior.
I think that's when it becomes

787
00:49:25,900 --> 00:49:31,800
an issue is when, when it gets
between you and God, right?

788
00:49:31,800 --> 00:49:35,500
When you no longer feel like you
can just go to God in prayer and

789
00:49:35,500 --> 00:49:38,700
get an answer yourself. that's
when you have to take a step

790
00:49:38,700 --> 00:49:42,700
back and evaluate, and really
say, okay, where am I add on

791
00:49:42,700 --> 00:49:48,400
this, you know, where you know,
It's hugely important.

792
00:49:49,300 --> 00:49:52,800
This idea that there's no
intermediary between you and

793
00:49:52,800 --> 00:49:56,000
God.
Now again, Except Christ.

794
00:49:56,300 --> 00:49:58,500
Christ is the great intercessor
and accept.

795
00:49:58,900 --> 00:50:01,900
Yes, we need a man to intercede
between us in Christ.

796
00:50:01,900 --> 00:50:04,000
We can go directly to him.
He is our intercessor.

797
00:50:04,400 --> 00:50:09,400
Yeah, I guess, and, and that's a
fine line to walk as Mormons,

798
00:50:09,400 --> 00:50:11,100
right?
Because we do believe in

799
00:50:11,100 --> 00:50:14,100
profits, we do believe in
Apostles, right?

800
00:50:14,100 --> 00:50:17,700
I mean, look, if Joseph Smith
wasn't a prophet, then we're all

801
00:50:17,700 --> 00:50:20,900
here.
Just debate in the words of some

802
00:50:20,900 --> 00:50:26,300
guy, right?
But so so it is a fine line that

803
00:50:26,300 --> 00:50:28,600
you have to have some tension
on, right?

804
00:50:28,800 --> 00:50:32,700
And and you have to be able to
walk that fine line.

805
00:50:33,800 --> 00:50:36,400
I will say real quick scripture.
Really speaking.

806
00:50:36,800 --> 00:50:40,300
There are not verses that say
follow the prophet.

807
00:50:42,200 --> 00:50:45,800
You know, there are verses that
say heed the words of the

808
00:50:45,800 --> 00:50:50,900
prophets and so and hearken unto
the voice of God.

809
00:50:50,900 --> 00:50:57,100
So but I think you know, just a
quick definition, check of

810
00:50:57,100 --> 00:51:02,200
contrasting the word Harkin with
the word he'd Parkin is a very

811
00:51:02,200 --> 00:51:05,000
common scriptural phrase.
That means just basically

812
00:51:05,000 --> 00:51:06,900
respectfully.
Listen and Obey.

813
00:51:07,300 --> 00:51:10,100
And when the Lord is speaking,
we should hearken to the voice

814
00:51:10,100 --> 00:51:14,600
of the Lord, like, even if we
don't want to, even if we have

815
00:51:14,600 --> 00:51:19,700
concerns, we can humble
ourselves and put our trust in

816
00:51:19,700 --> 00:51:21,800
God.
Even if it even if it defies our

817
00:51:21,800 --> 00:51:25,600
current mortal limited
understandings like that is a,

818
00:51:25,600 --> 00:51:28,700
that is an appropriate time to
Humble ourselves.

819
00:51:28,700 --> 00:51:32,000
And, and be surrender to the to
the will of God.

820
00:51:32,900 --> 00:51:38,100
Eid though is very different.
He'd literally means pay

821
00:51:38,100 --> 00:51:42,500
attention to and almost like
When it says take heed that's

822
00:51:42,500 --> 00:51:46,600
like be careful of.
So it's actually a counseling

823
00:51:46,600 --> 00:51:52,700
scriptures counsel us to pay
close attention and be wary of

824
00:51:52,700 --> 00:51:55,400
or be careful about the words of
prophets.

825
00:51:55,400 --> 00:51:58,500
Heed, the words of the prophets.
That doesn't mean ignore them.

826
00:51:58,600 --> 00:52:01,800
That doesn't mean always disobey
them many times prophets.

827
00:52:02,100 --> 00:52:07,300
Our are the the messenger that's
delivering the voice of God to

828
00:52:07,300 --> 00:52:10,400
us.
And in those moments, we should

829
00:52:10,500 --> 00:52:15,300
Could park into those words, but
not because that man, the

830
00:52:15,300 --> 00:52:20,300
prophet said them, but because
it was of God, so we should or

831
00:52:20,300 --> 00:52:22,700
obey because so-and-so said,
yeah.

832
00:52:22,700 --> 00:52:26,100
I think that's kind of the
distinction here if God said it.

833
00:52:26,100 --> 00:52:28,700
And the spirit gives you a
testimonial witness of the, that

834
00:52:28,700 --> 00:52:32,900
it even, if it comes through
mortal messenger, we should

835
00:52:32,900 --> 00:52:34,700
obey.
And we should humble ourselves

836
00:52:34,700 --> 00:52:39,500
and receive that counsel, but
even if the same, dude, the SEC

837
00:52:39,500 --> 00:52:43,300
The Next Step, Since over says
something else, we don't just,

838
00:52:43,300 --> 00:52:46,800
you know, obey because well, he
gave us Good Counsel last time,

839
00:52:46,800 --> 00:52:48,300
you know, and now he's still
speaking.

840
00:52:48,300 --> 00:52:50,800
So we're, it's not like every
word that comes out of that

841
00:52:50,800 --> 00:52:53,300
man's mouth is infallible, word
of God.

842
00:52:53,500 --> 00:52:55,800
And so, that's what I think
heating is paying close

843
00:52:55,800 --> 00:52:59,700
attention, having the spirit and
having a personal testimony and

844
00:52:59,700 --> 00:53:03,700
moving forward, any time the
prophet delivers, the counsel of

845
00:53:03,700 --> 00:53:06,500
God to us.
We respectfully, Listen and

846
00:53:06,500 --> 00:53:10,500
Obey.
Sometimes he does not deliver

847
00:53:10,700 --> 00:53:14,200
the counsel of God to us.
And in those moments, the last

848
00:53:14,200 --> 00:53:16,600
thing we should do is just
blindly obey because now we have

849
00:53:16,600 --> 00:53:20,500
set up an idol.
Now, we are just following a man

850
00:53:20,500 --> 00:53:22,900
rather than following God.
Yeah.

851
00:53:23,100 --> 00:53:28,100
And and and we've had plenty of
examples, we're just heating

852
00:53:28,100 --> 00:53:30,600
blindly, right?
That's the other thing.

853
00:53:30,600 --> 00:53:35,700
I've always said is, don't don't
go into it, just blindly and and

854
00:53:35,700 --> 00:53:39,500
I, you know, the the other I'll
say is, is that's not fair to

855
00:53:39,500 --> 00:53:43,400
profit either, right?
I'm that's not fair to them

856
00:53:43,400 --> 00:53:48,000
because now you put them in a
position to where they have to

857
00:53:48,000 --> 00:53:50,800
be right 100% of the time.
And we forget that these are

858
00:53:50,800 --> 00:53:54,200
still men.
Granted, I have seen certain

859
00:53:54,200 --> 00:53:58,700
instances where men are are very
inspired and what they say and

860
00:53:58,700 --> 00:54:05,600
and our profits but to take
Well, I go back to the LDS talk,

861
00:54:05,600 --> 00:54:08,200
right?
Where Russell and Nelson.

862
00:54:08,200 --> 00:54:10,900
Squishes the water bottle and
then everybody squishes the

863
00:54:10,900 --> 00:54:13,100
water bottle.
I don't think that's Doctrine,

864
00:54:13,100 --> 00:54:15,700
right?
And so to set a man on a

865
00:54:15,700 --> 00:54:18,500
pedestal like that isn't fair to
him either.

866
00:54:19,600 --> 00:54:21,500
That's that's a lot of undue
pressure.

867
00:54:22,500 --> 00:54:26,200
And I will say, I don't
necessarily fault any of the

868
00:54:26,200 --> 00:54:31,000
current living leadership in the
church and in other branches,

869
00:54:31,300 --> 00:54:34,800
for kind of perpetuating this
tradition because it's not like

870
00:54:34,800 --> 00:54:37,600
it's a brand new thing like you
you search back through the

871
00:54:37,600 --> 00:54:40,200
timelines of the histories and
all these personalities that

872
00:54:40,207 --> 00:54:43,000
have have had leadership roles
in the restoration.

873
00:54:45,400 --> 00:54:49,300
You know, Joseph was very
careful and he liked in the

874
00:54:49,300 --> 00:54:52,300
Nauvoo period.
He said he read Ezekiel. 14.

875
00:54:52,300 --> 00:54:54,700
And then he's, like, the people
are becoming dark and in their

876
00:54:54,700 --> 00:54:58,000
minds because they're depending
too much upon the prophet, which

877
00:54:58,000 --> 00:55:02,300
is not pleasing to God, like he
was trying to convince and

878
00:55:02,300 --> 00:55:05,800
persuade, the people who were
trusting in Him and knock it

879
00:55:05,800 --> 00:55:08,500
off.
Follow God, I'm just a man.

880
00:55:08,700 --> 00:55:12,400
Now it was it was difficult
because occasionally he would

881
00:55:12,400 --> 00:55:14,800
deliver the word and will of God
to the people.

882
00:55:15,200 --> 00:55:20,000
And so I it's just that thing is
so hard for people to kind of

883
00:55:20,000 --> 00:55:24,700
differentiate when Profit is
speaking as a prophet and we get

884
00:55:24,700 --> 00:55:28,200
a personal witness from heaven.
We need to obey that as the will

885
00:55:28,200 --> 00:55:31,000
of God.
When a prophet is speaking is n.

886
00:55:32,000 --> 00:55:35,900
We can respect his personal
opinion on this or that or the

887
00:55:35,900 --> 00:55:40,000
other, but that we shouldn't
take it as gospel and Brigham

888
00:55:40,000 --> 00:55:42,300
Young.
He was a very strong forceful

889
00:55:42,300 --> 00:55:43,800
leader.
He had a very, you know,

890
00:55:44,100 --> 00:55:49,300
powerful way of, you know,
persuading people to do what he

891
00:55:49,300 --> 00:55:55,100
wanted and and I think with good
reason like Brigham was it was

892
00:55:55,100 --> 00:55:57,500
amazing.
What he was able to accomplish

893
00:55:57,500 --> 00:56:01,400
in the short time that you know
of leading the Saints across to

894
00:56:01,400 --> 00:56:05,800
the Salt Lake Valley surviving
and then building this thriving

895
00:56:05,900 --> 00:56:10,900
Zion Society but there were
certainly a lot of kind of

896
00:56:10,900 --> 00:56:13,100
Follow the Man.
Followed Brigham.

897
00:56:13,100 --> 00:56:16,700
You know, do what Brigham says
the Traditions that were kind of

898
00:56:17,000 --> 00:56:20,000
begun and reinforced throughout
that time period, And like I

899
00:56:20,000 --> 00:56:21,600
love Brigham Young, I respect
him greatly.

900
00:56:21,600 --> 00:56:24,400
I'm Not going to ever say, you
know, find fault.

901
00:56:24,400 --> 00:56:27,700
But I do think that it's
important to acknowledge that

902
00:56:27,700 --> 00:56:30,900
some of these Traditions that
have become so enshrined in our

903
00:56:31,200 --> 00:56:35,000
Traditions today actually, do go
back to the very early days of

904
00:56:35,000 --> 00:56:38,400
the restoration and that doesn't
mean that Brigham was evil.

905
00:56:38,500 --> 00:56:42,300
It doesn't mean we reject
Brigham as a one of the Lord's

906
00:56:42,300 --> 00:56:44,100
anointed or anything along those
lines.

907
00:56:44,600 --> 00:56:49,400
But I think that we can learn
from some of the unprincipled

908
00:56:49,400 --> 00:56:53,800
actions that we could qualify as
takes and do better in our own

909
00:56:53,800 --> 00:56:56,400
lives and break them towards the
end of his life.

910
00:56:56,400 --> 00:57:01,000
He was down in St, George just
shortly before he died and he

911
00:57:01,000 --> 00:57:05,800
gave a talk in which, you know,
maybe I can just even find it

912
00:57:05,800 --> 00:57:08,100
really quick.
I have it in my notes in another

913
00:57:08,100 --> 00:57:12,700
place.
But so he shared this sentiment

914
00:57:13,700 --> 00:57:18,800
In which he says, I am more
afraid that this people have so

915
00:57:18,800 --> 00:57:20,600
much confidence in their
leaders, that they will not

916
00:57:20,600 --> 00:57:23,600
inquire for themselves of God,
whether or not the leaders are

917
00:57:23,600 --> 00:57:26,600
led by him.
I am fearful that people settle

918
00:57:26,600 --> 00:57:28,400
down in a state of blind
self-security.

919
00:57:28,400 --> 00:57:31,200
Trusting their Eternal Destiny
in the hands of their Leaders

920
00:57:31,500 --> 00:57:35,300
with a reckless confidence that
in itself would for the purposes

921
00:57:35,300 --> 00:57:38,000
of God in their salvation and
weaken the influence they could

922
00:57:38,000 --> 00:57:40,500
give to their leaders.
Did they know for themselves by

923
00:57:40,500 --> 00:57:43,000
the revelations of Jesus?
That they are LED in the right

924
00:57:43,000 --> 00:57:44,800
way?
Let every man and woman.

925
00:57:44,800 --> 00:57:47,400
No by the whisperings of the
spirit of God to themselves,

926
00:57:47,400 --> 00:57:49,500
whether their leaders are
walking in the path, the Lord

927
00:57:49,500 --> 00:57:52,900
dictates or not, this has been
my exportation continually.

928
00:57:54,000 --> 00:57:58,300
So how do we sustain the the
leadership and the profit?

929
00:57:58,900 --> 00:58:02,000
You can you get a testimony?
You get a testimony of what

930
00:58:02,000 --> 00:58:06,200
they're saying, right?
If they say something and look,

931
00:58:06,200 --> 00:58:11,700
any any man would, and if they
get off track, you helped

932
00:58:11,700 --> 00:58:14,900
influence them.
With you know with your own

933
00:58:14,900 --> 00:58:18,800
personal witness and and you
know, a true Prophet hopefully

934
00:58:18,800 --> 00:58:21,100
would have the humility to say,
huh.

935
00:58:21,100 --> 00:58:23,800
Maybe I did get a little carried
away there, maybe I should

936
00:58:24,000 --> 00:58:26,800
reconsider, I maybe, I took too
hard line of a stance on that

937
00:58:26,800 --> 00:58:30,100
issue.
And and I think that that

938
00:58:30,100 --> 00:58:34,600
there's nothing week or
unmasculine about being humble

939
00:58:34,800 --> 00:58:39,400
and being open to correction.
And I think that that really the

940
00:58:39,400 --> 00:58:41,800
best way we can sustain our
leaders, whether we're in the

941
00:58:41,800 --> 00:58:46,200
church or in a different group.
Setting organized, organized

942
00:58:46,200 --> 00:58:50,100
fundamentalist group is to get
our own revelation.

943
00:58:51,300 --> 00:58:56,500
And support our leadership when
we are in that alignment.

944
00:58:56,900 --> 00:58:57,700
Yeah.
Yeah.

945
00:58:57,700 --> 00:59:01,500
No I think you're right.
Because it and this has been the

946
00:59:01,500 --> 00:59:04,600
tricky thing with fundamentalism
that I can tell for a while,

947
00:59:04,600 --> 00:59:07,900
right?
Is And I was pleasantly

948
00:59:07,900 --> 00:59:11,500
surprised when I got in that
that that I agree with you, it

949
00:59:11,500 --> 00:59:13,300
doesn't seem to be going this
way.

950
00:59:13,300 --> 00:59:19,000
Any any longer as much as it
did, but for a long time, it was

951
00:59:19,000 --> 00:59:21,500
one of these things where you
were either completely

952
00:59:21,500 --> 00:59:28,800
independent or you put a guy up
on a pedestal that was that was

953
00:59:28,800 --> 00:59:34,200
was kind of the the two options.
I don't think it's that way

954
00:59:34,200 --> 00:59:35,800
anymore.
Certainly.

955
00:59:35,900 --> 00:59:38,900
Only the church I attend.
I've heard the man himself say

956
00:59:38,900 --> 00:59:41,600
you better get a testimony of
what I'm saying, right?

957
00:59:41,600 --> 00:59:43,500
Don't don't just take my word
for it.

958
00:59:43,900 --> 00:59:47,500
So I think I think that's that's
good and I've heard that come

959
00:59:47,500 --> 00:59:51,700
out of other groups and and look
whoever you think that guy is

960
00:59:52,000 --> 00:59:54,800
good on you you know you do your
own research, you your own

961
00:59:54,800 --> 00:59:58,600
praying and figure out where
you're supposed to be and go

962
00:59:58,600 --> 01:00:02,400
that way.
But if any guy ever tells you I

963
01:00:02,400 --> 01:00:04,400
have the answers.
You don't have to pray about

964
01:00:04,400 --> 01:00:08,600
this that Might be a dead
giveaway, right?

965
01:00:09,100 --> 01:00:13,100
Or PR this discourages you from
going and getting your own

966
01:00:13,100 --> 01:00:15,200
testimony of the thing that he's
saying.

967
01:00:15,700 --> 01:00:18,100
I think that's something that
you want to be a little bit

968
01:00:18,100 --> 01:00:23,500
weary of or someone who either
personally or allows others to

969
01:00:23,600 --> 01:00:28,600
to support or even just
implicitly says This is what you

970
01:00:28,600 --> 01:00:32,100
should do and if you get a
different answer, you're not

971
01:00:32,100 --> 01:00:35,300
inspired by the right spirit and
just, you know, basically

972
01:00:35,300 --> 01:00:39,100
labeling anybody who doesn't
conform to their opinion on

973
01:00:39,100 --> 01:00:43,400
everything, an apostate or, you
know, an Infidel.

974
01:00:43,900 --> 01:00:46,000
That's not fair.
That's not right, that's not

975
01:00:46,000 --> 01:00:49,300
scriptural.
And so yeah, that should be a

976
01:00:49,308 --> 01:00:53,800
big red flag for anybody.
I do want to I remembered one

977
01:00:53,800 --> 01:00:57,000
other point on this doctrine of
Balaam.

978
01:00:57,500 --> 01:01:00,600
And like, to eat things
sacrificed unto Idols.

979
01:01:01,700 --> 01:01:06,900
If by hypothesis that the idols
referred to like the corollary

980
01:01:06,900 --> 01:01:11,900
in our time is leader worship.
I think that this could easily

981
01:01:11,900 --> 01:01:16,400
be applied to a group that's
attempting to live United order

982
01:01:17,700 --> 01:01:21,400
in which the members of that
Community consecrate their

983
01:01:21,400 --> 01:01:27,100
property to the leadership and
they take those offerings.

984
01:01:27,400 --> 01:01:32,600
To the idols to the leadership
and they are personally enriched

985
01:01:32,600 --> 01:01:35,300
by them.
You know, you look at various

986
01:01:35,300 --> 01:01:39,100
United order attempts that I've
seen and usually, the leaders

987
01:01:39,100 --> 01:01:45,800
live in very nice, comfortable,
well-furnished, large houses,

988
01:01:45,800 --> 01:01:49,700
and the rank-and-file membership
of that order live in much

989
01:01:49,700 --> 01:01:55,300
smaller, not nearly as fancy
circumstances.

990
01:01:55,300 --> 01:02:00,000
And, and I think, That that
would be another kind of just

991
01:02:00,000 --> 01:02:03,200
symptom of this.
This idea of applying the

992
01:02:03,200 --> 01:02:06,200
doctrine of Balaam.
How is that going to manifest in

993
01:02:06,200 --> 01:02:09,600
our day?
I think that's could be a very

994
01:02:09,900 --> 01:02:14,000
telling corollary there.
Yeah, yeah.

995
01:02:14,100 --> 01:02:18,500
Know if, yeah.
And, and we certainly saw that

996
01:02:18,600 --> 01:02:23,000
in a couple of cases where you
saw abuses taking place, right?

997
01:02:25,300 --> 01:02:28,500
That's not to discourage people
who I want to live a United

998
01:02:28,500 --> 01:02:30,900
order, right?
I'm sure there are great groups

999
01:02:30,900 --> 01:02:35,600
out there doing it, trying their
hardest and, you know, making it

1000
01:02:35,600 --> 01:02:37,900
work.
And, and as long as you don't

1001
01:02:37,900 --> 01:02:42,100
see that disparity, I think
you're, you know, go for it,

1002
01:02:42,100 --> 01:02:45,500
right?
But but I think that disparity

1003
01:02:45,500 --> 01:02:48,700
that you were pointing out.
That should be a red flag,

1004
01:02:48,700 --> 01:02:51,900
right?
If everybody else is suffering

1005
01:02:52,400 --> 01:02:58,200
and the man tends to be above
that that's that's Not not good.

1006
01:02:58,200 --> 01:03:02,700
If if you're out there working
and you never see, see the man

1007
01:03:02,700 --> 01:03:06,800
out there working alongside you
might want to think twice here a

1008
01:03:06,800 --> 01:03:08,600
little bit.
Totally.

1009
01:03:08,800 --> 01:03:11,100
Yeah.
And it's just an invitation,

1010
01:03:11,200 --> 01:03:13,500
maybe maybe, we're just
perpetuating.

1011
01:03:13,500 --> 01:03:18,300
Some of the broken unprincipled
approaches that kind of have way

1012
01:03:18,300 --> 01:03:21,000
too much communism flavor for my
taste.

1013
01:03:21,400 --> 01:03:24,900
Like the Zion is not communism,
the United order is not

1014
01:03:24,900 --> 01:03:28,300
communism and you've had other
guests that have Clearly kind of

1015
01:03:28,700 --> 01:03:34,600
disambiguated those Concepts
United order is, is a voluntary

1016
01:03:34,600 --> 01:03:39,400
Association and it is an
extremely Equitable Association

1017
01:03:39,600 --> 01:03:43,000
and the one of the other signs
that it's built on these correct

1018
01:03:43,000 --> 01:03:46,400
principles is that everybody
prospers together.

1019
01:03:46,400 --> 01:03:49,200
It's not just well, the
leadership prospers and it's at

1020
01:03:49,207 --> 01:03:54,900
the expense of everybody else.
It's rising tide should lift All

1021
01:03:54,900 --> 01:04:00,900
Ships, right?
So Okay, and I know we kind of

1022
01:04:00,908 --> 01:04:04,500
got onto a pretty good rabbit
hole there, but let's just wrap

1023
01:04:04,500 --> 01:04:08,500
up on pergamos.
So, the next verse verse 15.

1024
01:04:08,700 --> 01:04:13,200
It says that this third Church
pergamos also has some of them

1025
01:04:13,200 --> 01:04:17,100
that hold the doctrine of the
Nicolaitans, which thing I hate.

1026
01:04:17,700 --> 01:04:22,700
So there there is perhaps a
propensity within this branch of

1027
01:04:22,700 --> 01:04:26,300
the restoration to have some of
those secret combinations and

1028
01:04:26,300 --> 01:04:32,100
maybe Indulgence Men, you know,
mentalities and by Indulgence.

1029
01:04:32,100 --> 01:04:36,000
Like, I think that the way that
Indulgence perspective would

1030
01:04:36,000 --> 01:04:39,100
manifest within a
fundamentalist, Mormon Community

1031
01:04:39,100 --> 01:04:41,700
is a little different from the
Catholic idea of indulgence.

1032
01:04:41,900 --> 01:04:46,200
I think that the Mormon version
of indulgence would be well, I

1033
01:04:46,200 --> 01:04:48,900
have three wives.
I don't have to worry about

1034
01:04:49,000 --> 01:04:53,400
repentance or, you know, being
honest in all my dealings.

1035
01:04:53,400 --> 01:04:56,000
Yeah.
We you know, that would be kind

1036
01:04:56,000 --> 01:05:00,400
of the Indulgence would mean I'm
living the higher law and so,

1037
01:05:00,400 --> 01:05:03,500
I'm exempt from, you know, I
don't, I can defraud the

1038
01:05:03,500 --> 01:05:06,300
government on some of these, you
know, welfare program.

1039
01:05:06,400 --> 01:05:09,600
Like, I'm not making any
personal accusations or anything

1040
01:05:09,600 --> 01:05:11,900
along those lines.
I'm just saying, I've heard

1041
01:05:11,900 --> 01:05:17,500
stories that that sometimes has
happened within some, you know,

1042
01:05:17,500 --> 01:05:20,200
that that is, that is a
mentality that is in some

1043
01:05:20,200 --> 01:05:23,500
fundamentalist rights,
absolutely.

1044
01:05:25,000 --> 01:05:30,000
Now, this Peugeot most, the next
verse repent or else, I will

1045
01:05:30,000 --> 01:05:33,400
come unto thee quickly and will
fight against them with the

1046
01:05:33,400 --> 01:05:41,800
sword of my mouth. so this is a
warning that Christ, he's kind

1047
01:05:41,800 --> 01:05:48,600
of letting things fly as they
are the time being, but quickly

1048
01:05:48,600 --> 01:05:54,500
would mean without warning and
he's going to basically Take him

1049
01:05:54,500 --> 01:05:57,700
take out some of these corrupt
leaders that if they don't

1050
01:05:57,700 --> 01:06:00,000
repent.
And so my hope is that anybody

1051
01:06:00,000 --> 01:06:03,100
listening to this or you know,
hopefully we can all take this

1052
01:06:03,100 --> 01:06:05,100
internally and use this as a
mirror.

1053
01:06:05,100 --> 01:06:11,500
Where can I do better have I've
been you know indulging myself

1054
01:06:11,500 --> 01:06:14,500
and not paying attention to some
of the details because I'm

1055
01:06:14,500 --> 01:06:17,400
moving higher laws or whatever
our justifications are am I am I

1056
01:06:17,408 --> 01:06:20,200
not being honest in my faith in
my dealings.

1057
01:06:20,200 --> 01:06:25,100
Am I, you know, enriching Elf
and and and you know,

1058
01:06:25,100 --> 01:06:28,400
redistributing wealth in an
inequitable way like any of

1059
01:06:28,400 --> 01:06:31,800
those types of things, whether
we're a member of this, these

1060
01:06:31,800 --> 01:06:33,900
groups or a leader of these
groups.

1061
01:06:34,200 --> 01:06:37,600
Hopefully all of us can use this
as a personal mirror to find.

1062
01:06:37,600 --> 01:06:41,800
Where can I Repent right hand
and this warning though does

1063
01:06:41,800 --> 01:06:46,900
seem to be more directed at the
leadership of pergamos and and

1064
01:06:46,900 --> 01:06:48,800
that you will fight against
them.

1065
01:06:48,800 --> 01:06:51,000
So he's not going to hold them
in this corruption.

1066
01:06:51,200 --> 01:06:55,600
He's actually going to You know,
remove their influence and, and

1067
01:06:55,600 --> 01:06:59,500
remove them from those
positions, he that hath an ear.

1068
01:06:59,700 --> 01:07:02,300
Let him hear what the spirit
saith unto the churches to him

1069
01:07:02,300 --> 01:07:06,100
that overcometh with in
pergamos, will I give to eat of

1070
01:07:06,100 --> 01:07:09,200
the Hidden Manna and will give
him a white stone and in the

1071
01:07:09,200 --> 01:07:13,200
stone, a new name written which
no man knoweth saving he that

1072
01:07:13,200 --> 01:07:18,400
receiveth it So the promise of
pergamos is actually quite

1073
01:07:18,400 --> 01:07:22,100
beautiful like, give to eat of
the Hidden manna.

1074
01:07:23,400 --> 01:07:28,300
This I think is just a reference
to the children of Israel in the

1075
01:07:28,300 --> 01:07:30,500
times of Moses, when they're
wandering in the wilderness,

1076
01:07:31,000 --> 01:07:32,900
they didn't know where their
next meal was coming from.

1077
01:07:33,500 --> 01:07:36,500
And, you know, if you're like
just to go back to that United

1078
01:07:36,500 --> 01:07:40,800
order kind of reference, if
you're part of a United order

1079
01:07:41,700 --> 01:07:47,400
and you recognize some red
flags, the challenges is it's

1080
01:07:47,400 --> 01:07:53,100
really hard to walk away.
Because you have nothing, you

1081
01:07:53,100 --> 01:07:56,900
know, because you in many of
these orders the house is not in

1082
01:07:56,900 --> 01:07:59,100
your name, the title and the
deed is not in your name, it's

1083
01:07:59,100 --> 01:08:03,200
in the orders name or the
leaderships name and and so like

1084
01:08:03,300 --> 01:08:05,400
and theirs and they'll say, oh,
you're welcome to leave.

1085
01:08:05,400 --> 01:08:07,500
We're not forcing to stay here
but you literally have to walk

1086
01:08:07,500 --> 01:08:10,000
away and if you've been in that
trying to, you know, build

1087
01:08:10,000 --> 01:08:13,200
equity or contribute to it for
four years or decades or your

1088
01:08:13,200 --> 01:08:16,000
whole life, and you're just now
going to walk away.

1089
01:08:16,200 --> 01:08:19,300
Like that's a big sacrifice and
it's could be scary.

1090
01:08:19,899 --> 01:08:23,500
I think that this, this eat
give, I will give to eat of the

1091
01:08:23,500 --> 01:08:28,399
Hidden Manna, is a is basically
a promise that God will provide

1092
01:08:29,200 --> 01:08:34,700
and, you know, Mana is, it was
just a gift that kind of

1093
01:08:34,700 --> 01:08:36,899
distilled Out of Heaven.
And the people walked out of

1094
01:08:36,907 --> 01:08:38,800
their tents in the morning and
it was there and they were

1095
01:08:38,800 --> 01:08:41,700
sustained.
And I think that if we have that

1096
01:08:41,800 --> 01:08:45,300
faith, if that is what God is
giving anybody listening to

1097
01:08:45,300 --> 01:08:48,399
this, or considering that these
ideas, the prompting that they

1098
01:08:48,399 --> 01:08:49,700
should get out of that
situation.

1099
01:08:49,800 --> 01:08:52,100
Ocean.
It's going to be a big scary

1100
01:08:52,100 --> 01:08:56,899
sacrifice, but God will provide
and he will take care of you.

1101
01:08:58,000 --> 01:09:00,100
I think it's also important when
you say something.

1102
01:09:00,399 --> 01:09:03,200
Yeah, yeah, I was going to say.
I think it's also important that

1103
01:09:03,200 --> 01:09:09,800
we we make the clarification
that the Lord's not going to

1104
01:09:09,800 --> 01:09:13,000
provide, if you're not doing
your end to, right?

1105
01:09:13,000 --> 01:09:18,399
Like, if you decide, if you get
burned by buy a bag group and

1106
01:09:18,399 --> 01:09:21,399
then you toss the baby, A out
with the bathwater, I'm not sure

1107
01:09:21,399 --> 01:09:24,300
those same promises apply, you
know what I mean?

1108
01:09:24,800 --> 01:09:27,300
If you say, well, the whole
Mormonism things bunk and

1109
01:09:27,300 --> 01:09:30,800
there's no God and that sort of
stuff, I don't think you can can

1110
01:09:30,800 --> 01:09:34,200
reasonably expect that, you're
going to get get those

1111
01:09:34,200 --> 01:09:36,800
blessings.
So, don't throw the baby out

1112
01:09:36,800 --> 01:09:40,600
with the bathwater just because
you would mixed up with a bad

1113
01:09:40,600 --> 01:09:45,000
group, doesn't mean there's not
not truth there in Mormonism as

1114
01:09:45,000 --> 01:09:48,899
a whole.
Yeah and I don't know too many

1115
01:09:48,899 --> 01:09:52,000
but I met a few like brothers
and sisters that were formerly

1116
01:09:52,000 --> 01:09:57,300
in the Warren Jeffs flds
organization and you know my

1117
01:09:57,300 --> 01:10:00,400
heart goes out to them because
they literally did walk away

1118
01:10:00,400 --> 01:10:04,000
from everything that you know,
their lives and many of their

1119
01:10:04,000 --> 01:10:07,100
family connections.
Like is a massive sacrifice but

1120
01:10:07,100 --> 01:10:09,900
this says to him that overcometh
so I think that this is

1121
01:10:09,900 --> 01:10:14,500
specifically referring to
somebody who retains their solid

1122
01:10:14,500 --> 01:10:20,200
foundation their testimony and
Thin the gospel and yet, maybe

1123
01:10:20,200 --> 01:10:23,000
makes those sacrifice and takes
that leap of faith.

1124
01:10:23,000 --> 01:10:26,700
And so if you can, if you can
get out of a bad situation, but

1125
01:10:26,700 --> 01:10:30,300
retain your faith in the gospel,
I believe, that is what is meant

1126
01:10:30,300 --> 01:10:34,100
by to him that overcometh.
And it's not just the hidden

1127
01:10:34,100 --> 01:10:36,900
Manna.
It says, we're all this pergamus

1128
01:10:36,900 --> 01:10:43,000
is also promised to receive a
white stone and, you know, and a

1129
01:10:43,008 --> 01:10:46,800
new name.
And I think that this is is

1130
01:10:46,800 --> 01:10:49,100
referring to basically Seer
Stones.

1131
01:10:49,100 --> 01:10:52,300
Seer ship the ability to obtain
Revelation.

1132
01:10:52,800 --> 01:10:57,200
I think that when you're in a,
you know, a condition where

1133
01:10:57,200 --> 01:11:00,000
you've set your leaders up on an
idol, you've made Idols out of

1134
01:11:00,000 --> 01:11:03,900
your leaders.
There's a, you know, inequity

1135
01:11:04,300 --> 01:11:08,900
amongst the leadership versus
the membership and you know,

1136
01:11:09,500 --> 01:11:12,800
this Dynamic doesn't just apply
with Mormonism just anywhere.

1137
01:11:13,100 --> 01:11:15,200
But when you have that
perspective, Even you've

1138
01:11:15,200 --> 01:11:20,200
basically allowed a man to to
stick himself between you and

1139
01:11:20,200 --> 01:11:23,100
God.
That is a barrier to Revelation

1140
01:11:23,100 --> 01:11:26,300
and and when you can repent and
overcome and get out of that

1141
01:11:26,300 --> 01:11:31,100
situation and retain your faith
and testimony now you can you've

1142
01:11:31,100 --> 01:11:35,800
unlocked God, can now provide
that stone in new name which is

1143
01:11:35,800 --> 01:11:38,600
representative of kind of some
Temple covenants and promises

1144
01:11:38,600 --> 01:11:40,800
and section 130.
If you want to look at that.

1145
01:11:41,200 --> 01:11:44,300
These are these are really
Heavenly gifts.

1146
01:11:44,500 --> 01:11:48,000
It's and the most important
aspect of it is I believe

1147
01:11:48,300 --> 01:11:54,000
receiving Revelation.
Yeah absolutely well and this

1148
01:11:54,000 --> 01:11:58,400
kind of ties back into to back
with a conversation.

1149
01:11:58,400 --> 01:12:01,200
I was having not that long ago.
I want to say a couple months

1150
01:12:01,200 --> 01:12:06,900
ago where where the conversation
was coming up about how do you

1151
01:12:07,700 --> 01:12:12,100
become an effective missionary
if you will or an effective

1152
01:12:12,400 --> 01:12:16,200
witness of Christ.
And the thought came to my mind.

1153
01:12:17,600 --> 01:12:19,900
Just set up the appointment
right.

1154
01:12:20,100 --> 01:12:23,100
Just set up the appointment.
Just point somebody back towards

1155
01:12:23,100 --> 01:12:25,200
Christ and say look, this is
what you did for me.

1156
01:12:26,900 --> 01:12:30,600
You can have this too and
anybody that sets them up, set

1157
01:12:30,600 --> 01:12:34,200
somebody up to say look you you
know, don't worry about personal

1158
01:12:34,200 --> 01:12:36,600
relationship.
With Christ have one with me and

1159
01:12:36,600 --> 01:12:39,500
I'll I'll I'll do the legwork
for you.

1160
01:12:39,900 --> 01:12:43,500
I'll be the one that I'll be the
one that introduces you to

1161
01:12:43,500 --> 01:12:47,400
Christ.
Like your are people who have

1162
01:12:47,400 --> 01:12:51,800
literally said that that
sentence and and people have

1163
01:12:52,900 --> 01:12:55,100
surrendered that power to them.
Yeah.

1164
01:12:55,100 --> 01:12:58,400
And I think that's the
invitation here is to overcome

1165
01:12:58,400 --> 01:13:00,000
that condition.
Yeah.

1166
01:13:00,300 --> 01:13:02,400
Yeah.
As if you want to Be an

1167
01:13:02,400 --> 01:13:06,000
Effective Minister for Christ,
the best thing you can do is set

1168
01:13:06,000 --> 01:13:08,000
up the appointment and then get
out of the way and let the

1169
01:13:08,008 --> 01:13:09,800
spirit, and Christ you their
work.

1170
01:13:10,900 --> 01:13:15,500
So if you're if you're putting
yourself or there's somebody,

1171
01:13:15,500 --> 01:13:19,400
that's putting your themselves
between you and Christ, that

1172
01:13:19,400 --> 01:13:23,300
should be something, you should
be a little wary of Yep.

1173
01:13:25,000 --> 01:13:29,600
All right.
So that's the that's pergamos in

1174
01:13:29,600 --> 01:13:31,300
Revelations.
Chapter 2 verse 18.

1175
01:13:31,300 --> 01:13:34,900
Now we're going to go into
thyatira, okay?

1176
01:13:35,000 --> 01:13:38,900
And if you know a better
pronunciation like I'm just a

1177
01:13:39,100 --> 01:13:41,800
hick from Utah.
So this is just my best of to

1178
01:13:41,800 --> 01:13:44,800
like announcing.
We're going to go with it, so

1179
01:13:45,000 --> 01:13:47,700
thyatira these things.
Saith the Son of God.

1180
01:13:47,700 --> 01:13:50,700
Who hath his eyes like unto a
flame of fire and his feet are

1181
01:13:50,700 --> 01:13:52,600
like fine brass.
This is verse 15.

1182
01:13:52,800 --> 01:13:56,600
Chapter one again, Christ
speaking, I Know Thy works and

1183
01:13:56,600 --> 01:14:00,900
charity and service and faith
and thy patience and thy works.

1184
01:14:01,100 --> 01:14:08,300
And the last to be more than the
first so thyatira, like that's a

1185
01:14:08,300 --> 01:14:10,200
lot of good things going for him
crisis.

1186
01:14:10,200 --> 01:14:12,400
Basically praising them for
their Works, their charity

1187
01:14:12,400 --> 01:14:16,800
service Faith, patience.
And the last more than the first

1188
01:14:16,800 --> 01:14:20,600
like, so basically, they're
doing more now than they've ever

1189
01:14:20,600 --> 01:14:23,200
done before.
Now, this sounds like a really

1190
01:14:23,300 --> 01:14:26,800
solid faithful Branch.
Whoever this may be

1191
01:14:28,900 --> 01:14:33,600
notwithstanding.
It's not all, it's not all good

1192
01:14:33,600 --> 01:14:35,100
stuff.
Notwithstanding, I have a few

1193
01:14:35,100 --> 01:14:39,200
things against thee.
Because thou sufferest that

1194
01:14:39,200 --> 01:14:43,200
woman Jezebel, which calleth
herself a prophetess to teach

1195
01:14:43,200 --> 01:14:47,100
and to seduce my servants, to
commit fornication, and to eat

1196
01:14:47,100 --> 01:14:53,400
things, sacrificed unto Idols.
So, so thyatira, this Branch

1197
01:14:53,400 --> 01:14:56,900
this church, they have a lot
going for them.

1198
01:14:56,900 --> 01:15:00,100
They're very little, you know,
industrious and they've done a

1199
01:15:00,100 --> 01:15:04,900
lot of good works, but they have
allowed this false prophet or

1200
01:15:04,900 --> 01:15:11,100
false teacher to infiltrate.
And seduce some of some of

1201
01:15:11,100 --> 01:15:17,000
Christ's servants to fornicate.
And I think that, you know,

1202
01:15:17,000 --> 01:15:21,500
there are certain elements or
factions or, you know,

1203
01:15:21,500 --> 01:15:26,100
propensities that I've seen
within fundamentalism that are

1204
01:15:26,100 --> 01:15:30,200
basically like they're saying,
well, hey, in the days of Joseph

1205
01:15:30,200 --> 01:15:32,600
people were speaking in tongues
and they, you know, they're, you

1206
01:15:32,600 --> 01:15:36,900
know, they're they're basically
saying, why aren't we having

1207
01:15:36,900 --> 01:15:42,000
these These Pentecostal like out
whoring types of experiences in

1208
01:15:42,000 --> 01:15:46,400
our churches.
And I think that is a valid

1209
01:15:46,600 --> 01:15:49,500
question.
I think that, you know, maybe we

1210
01:15:49,500 --> 01:15:52,700
are too.
You know in many in many

1211
01:15:52,700 --> 01:15:56,300
instances were not.
We don't have strong enough

1212
01:15:56,300 --> 01:15:59,200
Faith to obtain all of these
gifts of the Spirit, which the

1213
01:15:59,200 --> 01:16:04,000
scriptures describe as being
kind of inherent to Faith and

1214
01:16:04,000 --> 01:16:08,400
discipleship of Christ.
But I've seen It this maybe it's

1215
01:16:08,400 --> 01:16:11,800
a good desire, but it gets
misguided because I've seen

1216
01:16:11,800 --> 01:16:17,000
Mormons going and reverting to
Christian like Evangelical types

1217
01:16:17,000 --> 01:16:19,500
of congregations.
And I think that the woman

1218
01:16:19,500 --> 01:16:25,600
Jezebel is actually sectarian
Christianity and it is seducing

1219
01:16:26,300 --> 01:16:29,500
fundamentalist and Mormons who
have testimonies of the fullness

1220
01:16:29,900 --> 01:16:36,700
to to, to basically fornicate to
to give up that testimony of the

1221
01:16:36,700 --> 01:16:40,700
fullness of the gospel and
embrace sectarian Christianity

1222
01:16:40,700 --> 01:16:43,200
because they're in pursuit of
these Evangelical types of

1223
01:16:43,200 --> 01:16:46,200
experiences.
These Pentecostal types of

1224
01:16:46,200 --> 01:16:48,800
experiences, is that?
Does that make sense?

1225
01:16:49,000 --> 01:16:49,400
Yeah.
No.

1226
01:16:49,400 --> 01:16:53,000
That makes total sense.
And, and what I find interesting

1227
01:16:53,300 --> 01:16:57,500
to on this Taylor is that this
could apply to a lot of

1228
01:16:57,500 --> 01:17:01,600
different branches of Mormonism,
because I think it's something

1229
01:17:01,600 --> 01:17:04,100
that we're starting to see get
in there.

1230
01:17:04,100 --> 01:17:09,000
I know you have a specific group
in mind but But I think I think

1231
01:17:09,000 --> 01:17:11,500
this is something that I'm
seeing more and more and

1232
01:17:11,500 --> 01:17:15,600
Mormonism in general, right?
Where we're seeing the more

1233
01:17:18,500 --> 01:17:20,900
Orthodox.
And I use quotations, their

1234
01:17:21,400 --> 01:17:23,900
Christian thought creeping in.
Right?

1235
01:17:23,900 --> 01:17:30,400
The the more saved by grace.
Sanctification is a moment kind

1236
01:17:30,400 --> 01:17:36,700
of a thing more seeking seeking
after like outward expressions

1237
01:17:36,700 --> 01:17:40,900
of Right.
Yeah, hung's.

1238
01:17:40,900 --> 01:17:45,500
And it kind of almost that that
southern Pentecostal list

1239
01:17:45,500 --> 01:17:48,600
creeping in.
In some ways, not not to bash on

1240
01:17:48,600 --> 01:17:50,600
Southern Pentecostals if that's
your Creed.

1241
01:17:50,600 --> 01:17:55,600
But I'm just saying that that
it's not really Mormon dish.

1242
01:17:56,200 --> 01:18:02,900
I don't know if that's a word.
I told you last week that I had

1243
01:18:02,900 --> 01:18:05,400
another announcement coming.
So here it is.

1244
01:18:06,300 --> 01:18:08,000
First.
As always, just let me thank you

1245
01:18:08,008 --> 01:18:10,700
for listening for supporting
when you have.

1246
01:18:10,900 --> 01:18:12,800
I can't tell you how much that
means to me.

1247
01:18:13,500 --> 01:18:16,700
Now, let's move on here.
So here's the announcement.

1248
01:18:16,800 --> 01:18:22,300
I am going to start offering
exclusive content on patreon and

1249
01:18:22,300 --> 01:18:24,800
that's going to be broken down
into three categories.

1250
01:18:25,400 --> 01:18:29,400
But before I do that, I want to
tell you why it is.

1251
01:18:29,400 --> 01:18:33,500
I am doing what Doing here and
I'm going to make an admission.

1252
01:18:33,500 --> 01:18:36,200
I haven't made before on the
podcast.

1253
01:18:36,200 --> 01:18:40,700
Here, as I tell you why it is,
I'm doing what I'm doing.

1254
01:18:42,300 --> 01:18:48,500
Back last September, I lost my
job because of the podcast.

1255
01:18:49,400 --> 01:18:56,400
Essentially, the the company I
worked for was working for a

1256
01:18:56,400 --> 01:19:01,300
client, an organization that
found out that I was doing the

1257
01:19:01,300 --> 01:19:07,200
podcast and there were some
pressure put on to get me to put

1258
01:19:07,200 --> 01:19:11,200
the mic away and just shut up.
As you can probably, guess

1259
01:19:11,200 --> 01:19:14,500
shutting up isn't necessarily my
forte not my thing.

1260
01:19:15,900 --> 01:19:22,000
So I told them no, probably less
diplomatic that diplomatically

1261
01:19:22,000 --> 01:19:24,600
than what I should have.
But nonetheless I told them no

1262
01:19:26,300 --> 01:19:28,800
and they said then you no longer
work here.

1263
01:19:29,300 --> 01:19:32,700
Now, I was very fortunate and
very blessed that I was able to

1264
01:19:32,708 --> 01:19:35,900
go out and find another job.
Didn't take me long at all,

1265
01:19:36,700 --> 01:19:39,400
however, it did reinforce this
idea.

1266
01:19:39,600 --> 01:19:45,900
You have that, I'm susceptible
because I am so public and

1267
01:19:46,300 --> 01:19:48,900
certainly while I put my trust
in the Lord.

1268
01:19:50,300 --> 01:19:53,900
I kind of asked him what I
should do here, just in case

1269
01:19:54,300 --> 01:20:00,800
this ever happened again and the
idea of charging for the podcast

1270
01:20:00,800 --> 01:20:06,100
just didn't feel right?
And so I was kind of hesitant on

1271
01:20:06,100 --> 01:20:09,600
what to do.
I've also sunk some money in To

1272
01:20:09,600 --> 01:20:14,400
this for software for hardware.
And it's gotten a little

1273
01:20:14,400 --> 01:20:16,800
expensive.
So I need to try to offset those

1274
01:20:16,800 --> 01:20:23,900
costs if I can So here's what I
decided on rather than beg for

1275
01:20:23,900 --> 01:20:28,300
donations, I want to start
giving you something that maybe

1276
01:20:28,300 --> 01:20:34,000
you feel is worth your time and
worth your money.

1277
01:20:34,600 --> 01:20:37,300
I've never wanted to waste your
time on this podcast.

1278
01:20:37,300 --> 01:20:40,200
Not once.
As I thought about.

1279
01:20:40,200 --> 01:20:42,300
Okay.
Do I put the old episodes behind

1280
01:20:42,300 --> 01:20:44,200
a pay wall?
That didn't feel right either

1281
01:20:44,200 --> 01:20:48,200
felt like priestcraft because
I'm not these aren't my truths.

1282
01:20:48,200 --> 01:20:52,200
These are God's truths and I
feel like this is a calling for

1283
01:20:52,200 --> 01:20:56,400
me to get those out there.
So I racked my brain hard on

1284
01:20:56,400 --> 01:21:00,900
what to do and after a lot of
prayer and some fasting, the

1285
01:21:00,900 --> 01:21:05,600
idea came to me, rather than put
an episode behind a pay wall

1286
01:21:05,700 --> 01:21:08,300
offer extras.
And that's what these three

1287
01:21:08,300 --> 01:21:10,900
packages.
Going to do on patreon is they

1288
01:21:10,900 --> 01:21:15,200
are going to give you an
opportunity to purchase extras.

1289
01:21:15,200 --> 01:21:19,800
Now, I want to start by saying
this, the podcast itself will

1290
01:21:19,800 --> 01:21:22,800
always be free.
I can't charge for that

1291
01:21:22,800 --> 01:21:25,500
whatsoever.
I wouldn't feel right about it

1292
01:21:25,500 --> 01:21:27,200
and it just doesn't sit well
with me.

1293
01:21:27,200 --> 01:21:30,500
So you'll always be able to go
to Spotify or apple or wherever

1294
01:21:30,500 --> 01:21:33,300
you get your podcast and
download it there.

1295
01:21:34,600 --> 01:21:38,200
And that's always going to have
commercials and ads and those

1296
01:21:38,200 --> 01:21:41,100
sorts of things.
It's so let me break down the

1297
01:21:41,100 --> 01:21:47,600
three packages if you will, but
you can purchase on patreon that

1298
01:21:47,700 --> 01:21:49,900
will help me.
Hopefully generate some income.

1299
01:21:50,000 --> 01:21:54,800
Now package one, I've titled
slightly Rowdy and on that

1300
01:21:54,900 --> 01:21:59,300
you're just going to get ad free
audio and that's three dollars a

1301
01:21:59,300 --> 01:22:02,700
month.
Now, package number two, I've

1302
01:22:02,700 --> 01:22:06,100
titled stirring it up.
And on that package, you're

1303
01:22:06,100 --> 01:22:11,200
going to get ad free audio ad.
Video and transcripts and

1304
01:22:11,200 --> 01:22:14,100
transcripts is are something
that I've been asked for a lot

1305
01:22:14,400 --> 01:22:17,800
so that you can have all that
for six dollars.

1306
01:22:18,600 --> 01:22:24,100
The third and final package is
the full Renegade package and on

1307
01:22:24,100 --> 01:22:28,300
that, you're going to get ad
free video ad free audio, the

1308
01:22:28,300 --> 01:22:31,300
transcripts and then two
additional items and I want

1309
01:22:31,300 --> 01:22:33,000
break those down here real
quick.

1310
01:22:33,700 --> 01:22:36,500
The first additional item is a
private community Through

1311
01:22:36,500 --> 01:22:39,800
Discord.
This will allow ow, you The

1312
01:22:39,800 --> 01:22:42,400
Listener to get on and talk
about some of these things.

1313
01:22:42,400 --> 01:22:45,700
With other Mormons of many
different Stripes.

1314
01:22:46,200 --> 01:22:49,000
If you're an LDS person and you
have questions.

1315
01:22:49,000 --> 01:22:51,800
But, you know, it's not like,
you know, your bishop and say,

1316
01:22:51,800 --> 01:22:54,300
hey you want to break down blood
atonement for me or plural

1317
01:22:54,300 --> 01:22:59,300
marriage or Adam God you can get
on there and there's going to be

1318
01:22:59,300 --> 01:23:02,500
people on there that will help
answer those questions for you.

1319
01:23:03,100 --> 01:23:06,600
The nice thing about this is
It's not like a Facebook group

1320
01:23:06,600 --> 01:23:11,300
where you're going to have.
The potential of having someone

1321
01:23:11,300 --> 01:23:14,200
from the strengthening church
members committee, there to take

1322
01:23:14,200 --> 01:23:17,700
your information down and haul
you into The Bishop's office or

1323
01:23:18,200 --> 01:23:20,400
maybe you're already a
fundamentalist, but it's just a

1324
01:23:20,407 --> 01:23:24,500
question, you don't feel
comfortable asking anybody else

1325
01:23:24,500 --> 01:23:28,600
and you can do that anonymously.
Obviously on this on this

1326
01:23:28,600 --> 01:23:31,400
community chat room, so to
speak.

1327
01:23:32,200 --> 01:23:38,800
Now, the Final Extra you get in
that full Renegade package,

1328
01:23:39,000 --> 01:23:41,900
Which is there's going to be an
additional show that I'm doing

1329
01:23:41,900 --> 01:23:46,500
with Benjamin Winfield, called
more fun news and we've already

1330
01:23:46,500 --> 01:23:49,400
recorded a couple episodes and
it's a great time.

1331
01:23:49,800 --> 01:23:53,100
And what we do is Bend and I get
on there and we pick out three

1332
01:23:53,100 --> 01:23:57,400
or four new stories a week for
that week that we thought were

1333
01:23:57,400 --> 01:24:01,300
important or interesting, or
maybe even a little funny and we

1334
01:24:01,300 --> 01:24:03,700
break it down from a very Mormon
point of view.

1335
01:24:04,300 --> 01:24:07,700
Now, that last package, the, the
full Renegade package, that's

1336
01:24:07,700 --> 01:24:09,500
yours for 12.
Dollars.

1337
01:24:10,000 --> 01:24:12,800
Now, if you can afford to do
this, that's great.

1338
01:24:12,900 --> 01:24:16,000
If you can afford to buy any of
those packages that will help.

1339
01:24:16,100 --> 01:24:19,400
If not, I completely understand.
And please don't feel like you

1340
01:24:19,400 --> 01:24:22,500
got to stop listening.
Like I said, I'm always going to

1341
01:24:22,500 --> 01:24:26,600
have those podcasts available
for you with ads for free on

1342
01:24:26,600 --> 01:24:30,500
Spotify, on Apple wherever you
get your podcast.

1343
01:24:30,500 --> 01:24:32,600
So that's it.
That's that was the next big

1344
01:24:32,600 --> 01:24:35,300
announcement.
One last thing I want to mention

1345
01:24:35,300 --> 01:24:39,300
is that in the coming weeks?
You'll see a new website up And

1346
01:24:39,300 --> 01:24:43,900
that new website will have an
ability for you to be able to

1347
01:24:43,900 --> 01:24:48,000
search episodes by topic by
guest, whatever it is, you're

1348
01:24:48,000 --> 01:24:51,000
going to have some options there
that you can really dig into the

1349
01:24:51,008 --> 01:24:55,500
website and extract useful
information as quickly as

1350
01:24:55,500 --> 01:24:58,400
possible to sign up for the
patreon.

1351
01:24:58,400 --> 01:25:02,800
I put the link to the patreon.
In this episode show notes, go

1352
01:25:02,800 --> 01:25:07,500
there, click on it, if you can
afford it, God bless you, as

1353
01:25:07,500 --> 01:25:08,900
always, I appreciate all the
support.

1354
01:25:09,000 --> 01:25:11,400
Fort.
I appreciate your listenership

1355
01:25:11,400 --> 01:25:13,800
and I look forward to continue
to bring you.

1356
01:25:14,400 --> 01:25:17,000
Excellent guest on interesting
topics.

1357
01:25:17,200 --> 01:25:21,500
Thanks.
Yeah, well and I mean I look at

1358
01:25:21,500 --> 01:25:26,700
it as, as sure, maybe we do have
room for improvement.

1359
01:25:26,700 --> 01:25:31,500
I'm very open to the to the
likelihood that all I will say,

1360
01:25:31,500 --> 01:25:37,300
I am very open to the certainty
that most Mormons, we've kind of

1361
01:25:37,300 --> 01:25:40,500
gotten a little too sleepy.
We've gotten a little too, like

1362
01:25:40,500 --> 01:25:45,900
Pious, and we have lost touch
with the the component of

1363
01:25:45,900 --> 01:25:49,400
discipleship of Christ.
That would be like, praise Raise

1364
01:25:49,400 --> 01:25:52,800
and joy and like we we restrain
ourselves because that's not

1365
01:25:52,800 --> 01:25:55,600
Reverend, you know, and we, you
know, keep it down, you know,

1366
01:25:55,700 --> 01:25:59,300
want to get too out of control
and I don't, I'm not saying we

1367
01:25:59,300 --> 01:26:03,900
should lose control or anything
but I think that there is value

1368
01:26:03,900 --> 01:26:08,700
and Truth to being so
overwhelmed by the joy of like a

1369
01:26:08,708 --> 01:26:11,400
remission of sins that you just
have to sing.

1370
01:26:11,400 --> 01:26:13,600
Hallelujah at the top of your
lungs.

1371
01:26:14,000 --> 01:26:17,400
Try doing that in most Mormon
congregations, and you're going

1372
01:26:17,400 --> 01:26:21,300
to get a lot of weird looks
right. and so I don't think that

1373
01:26:21,300 --> 01:26:24,600
there's a problem of looking at
our culture and saying, hey,

1374
01:26:24,900 --> 01:26:28,500
maybe we could be a little bit
more praising of the lore or

1375
01:26:28,500 --> 01:26:31,900
maybe we could be a little bit
more like excited about this

1376
01:26:31,900 --> 01:26:38,300
whole gospel thing like but to
to revert back to the Christian

1377
01:26:38,500 --> 01:26:40,900
types of church like you know
because because some

1378
01:26:40,900 --> 01:26:45,200
fundamentalist like even
polygamists, start attending

1379
01:26:45,200 --> 01:26:48,900
these these Christian
congregations and it's like

1380
01:26:49,500 --> 01:26:53,000
They're trying to befriend them
but it's like, you know, they

1381
01:26:53,000 --> 01:26:55,200
hate you right?
You know, they don't believe and

1382
01:26:55,200 --> 01:26:58,800
they think that you're living in
sin because you have a second

1383
01:26:58,800 --> 01:27:02,300
wife or whatever like why are
you putting yourself into that

1384
01:27:02,300 --> 01:27:04,800
environment and butthole?
But I feel the spirit there like

1385
01:27:04,800 --> 01:27:09,100
I've never felt in my Mormon
congregations, it's like Yes.

1386
01:27:09,100 --> 01:27:13,400
But they're denying the, they're
denying, The Plan of Salvation

1387
01:27:13,400 --> 01:27:16,700
that Joseph taught.
They're denying Adam God, like,

1388
01:27:16,700 --> 01:27:19,700
all of these, you know, fullness
of the Gospel principles are

1389
01:27:19,700 --> 01:27:24,100
completely rejected, but they
think that they're progressing

1390
01:27:24,100 --> 01:27:29,100
but went, but it's really a
regression for I focused biggest

1391
01:27:29,100 --> 01:27:34,700
lift up in a spirit of worship,
not the spirit of worship and

1392
01:27:35,000 --> 01:27:39,200
and in doing.
So you're kind of Acceptable to

1393
01:27:39,200 --> 01:27:43,600
to some some false traditions
and false beliefs creeping in

1394
01:27:43,600 --> 01:27:46,500
there.
Yeah seek and ye shall find

1395
01:27:46,500 --> 01:27:49,500
cannot be a two-edged sword.
Right?

1396
01:27:50,700 --> 01:27:56,800
So because God, God does allow
us according to the desires of

1397
01:27:56,800 --> 01:28:00,600
our hearts.
And so we have to be mindful of

1398
01:28:00,700 --> 01:28:03,300
where those desires are leading
to a leading us to.

1399
01:28:04,000 --> 01:28:07,500
And it goes on in verse 21, it
says I gave her space to repent

1400
01:28:07,500 --> 01:28:09,300
of her fornication.
Asian, and she repented.

1401
01:28:09,300 --> 01:28:13,500
Nah, so this is just tragic
because it's not that that these

1402
01:28:13,700 --> 01:28:16,400
folks were this branch has not
been warned.

1403
01:28:16,500 --> 01:28:19,800
They've been warned, they've had
opportunities to repent, but

1404
01:28:19,800 --> 01:28:23,900
these have been ignored or
squandered behold.

1405
01:28:24,000 --> 01:28:27,900
I will cast her into a bed and
then that commits adultery with

1406
01:28:27,900 --> 01:28:31,600
her into Great Tribulation,
except they repent of their

1407
01:28:31,600 --> 01:28:38,000
deeds.
So, and I think verse 23 is the

1408
01:28:38,200 --> 01:28:41,900
Dist tragedy.
I will kill her children with

1409
01:28:41,900 --> 01:28:45,100
death and all the churches shall
know that I am.

1410
01:28:45,100 --> 01:28:52,300
He which searcheth the reins and
hearts, and I will give unto

1411
01:28:52,300 --> 01:28:54,300
every one of you according to
your works.

1412
01:28:54,800 --> 01:29:01,000
So I think that this is
basically a prophecy that those

1413
01:29:01,000 --> 01:29:07,000
who fornicate with Jezebel so to
speak and who do not repent the

1414
01:29:07,000 --> 01:29:08,700
ultimate price.
They will Pays that their

1415
01:29:08,700 --> 01:29:11,900
children will be lost.
Maybe not like, it's not, I

1416
01:29:11,900 --> 01:29:13,700
don't think it's necessarily
like a temporal death.

1417
01:29:13,700 --> 01:29:17,400
I think it's a spiritual, right?
They're gonna lose their

1418
01:29:17,400 --> 01:29:20,100
children to the children will
fall from the faith.

1419
01:29:21,100 --> 01:29:23,800
Exactly.
Because there's a do, you might

1420
01:29:23,800 --> 01:29:26,600
remember and hold on, to some
things but the more you expose

1421
01:29:26,600 --> 01:29:31,300
your kids to false Doctrine and
false ideas, They'll take it and

1422
01:29:31,300 --> 01:29:36,600
run with it.
Yes yeah no, that makes sense.

1423
01:29:37,700 --> 01:29:43,000
So yeah continuing on into verse
24 but I say in but unto you I

1424
01:29:43,000 --> 01:29:45,800
say and unto the rest in
thyatira as many as have not

1425
01:29:45,800 --> 01:29:48,400
this Doctrine in which have not
known the depths of Satan at the

1426
01:29:48,407 --> 01:29:51,600
as they speak I will put upon
you, none other burden.

1427
01:29:52,400 --> 01:29:55,600
So losing, their children will
be burden enough.

1428
01:29:58,700 --> 01:30:05,400
But that that which she have
already hold fast till I come.

1429
01:30:06,300 --> 01:30:11,500
So don't allow this Jezebel
seductress to shake.

1430
01:30:11,500 --> 01:30:14,800
You from the things that God has
given you the testimonies that

1431
01:30:14,800 --> 01:30:23,600
you already possess hold fast
until I come and And and he that

1432
01:30:23,600 --> 01:30:26,500
overcometh.
Okay, so now we're pivoting into

1433
01:30:26,500 --> 01:30:30,600
like, so we've talked about kind
of the the challenges that are

1434
01:30:30,600 --> 01:30:34,500
unique to this this branch and
maybe certain individuals within

1435
01:30:34,500 --> 01:30:38,400
it.
But we're also pivoting now into

1436
01:30:40,300 --> 01:30:47,900
My app, just crashed.
Hold on. so now we're pivoting

1437
01:30:47,900 --> 01:30:54,500
into kind of the, the promised
blessings if they overcome, if

1438
01:30:54,500 --> 01:30:58,500
they, if they repent and and
hold fast to the things that

1439
01:30:58,500 --> 01:31:06,700
they've received, there we go.
He that overcometh and keepeth

1440
01:31:06,700 --> 01:31:10,300
my Works unto the end to him.
Will I give power over the

1441
01:31:10,300 --> 01:31:12,900
nation's?
This is fascinating.

1442
01:31:13,000 --> 01:31:17,800
So this thyatira church, number
four, they are going to be, I

1443
01:31:17,800 --> 01:31:22,100
mean, it basically nations would
imply political power, right?

1444
01:31:23,100 --> 01:31:25,600
Okay.
And he shall rule them with a

1445
01:31:25,600 --> 01:31:29,400
rod of iron.
So so thyatira the church.

1446
01:31:29,400 --> 01:31:35,300
This branch of the restoration
will rule with a rod of iron.

1447
01:31:35,500 --> 01:31:39,300
Now that could sound
super-severe, which if you look

1448
01:31:39,300 --> 01:31:44,100
at the lawlessness and the you
know the the chaos in the world

1449
01:31:44,100 --> 01:31:49,800
today people that come to to to
hear I believe that this branch

1450
01:31:49,900 --> 01:31:54,700
is actually in Missouri today
and and so when it's talking

1451
01:31:54,700 --> 01:31:58,300
about these nations flowing to
them and given Power over them.

1452
01:31:58,400 --> 01:32:03,800
I think that this is a reference
to come to Zion like the, you

1453
01:32:03,800 --> 01:32:07,000
know, when when Zion is
established and a city is

1454
01:32:07,000 --> 01:32:10,200
beginning to be built and the
scriptures talk prophetically

1455
01:32:10,200 --> 01:32:15,100
about all nations will flow unto
Zion and will say, teach us the

1456
01:32:15,100 --> 01:32:17,400
laws of God because they have
forgotten.

1457
01:32:17,900 --> 01:32:21,500
You know, if you look at our
nation today, 99% of the

1458
01:32:21,500 --> 01:32:27,100
population of the u.s. don't
understand what God's law is.

1459
01:32:28,600 --> 01:32:29,300
Right.
You know?

1460
01:32:29,300 --> 01:32:33,900
And because you look at the
early days, the founding fathers

1461
01:32:33,900 --> 01:32:36,800
they knew very clearly what
God's law was and they tried to

1462
01:32:36,800 --> 01:32:39,800
do their best to pattern the
Civil codes that the

1463
01:32:39,800 --> 01:32:43,600
constitution of the legal code,
the law of the land after God's

1464
01:32:43,600 --> 01:32:46,000
law.
And that's what led to the

1465
01:32:46,000 --> 01:32:49,400
freedom and the prosperity that
we have enjoyed as our heritage

1466
01:32:49,400 --> 01:32:52,900
As Americans.
But as we depart from that

1467
01:32:52,900 --> 01:32:56,800
standard as we forsake, the laws
of God and and go whoring after

1468
01:32:56,800 --> 01:33:01,800
our own, Own desires, are, you
know, and other gods we

1469
01:33:01,900 --> 01:33:06,700
eventually we forget what God's
law even is and Zion is going to

1470
01:33:06,700 --> 01:33:11,300
be governed by God's law.
So it's it may feel like a rod

1471
01:33:11,300 --> 01:33:16,000
of iron straightening you out,
but I think the other thing

1472
01:33:16,000 --> 01:33:18,300
that's really fascinating about
the rod of iron, if you think

1473
01:33:18,300 --> 01:33:25,300
about the vision of Lehi and the
tree of life and when Nephi sees

1474
01:33:25,300 --> 01:33:29,300
the same vision and he asks for
the Rotation of the rod of iron,

1475
01:33:29,900 --> 01:33:33,600
it's the word of God, you know,
it's you know, so you could

1476
01:33:33,600 --> 01:33:37,100
interpret that as scriptures but
then if you think of the word of

1477
01:33:37,100 --> 01:33:39,700
God and then the Book of John,
it says, in the beginning was

1478
01:33:39,700 --> 01:33:42,400
the word and was the word was
with God, and the Word was God.

1479
01:33:42,800 --> 01:33:45,300
Without the word was not made.
Anything that was made.

1480
01:33:45,400 --> 01:33:48,600
And in verse 10 it says and the
Word was made flesh and dwelt

1481
01:33:48,600 --> 01:33:51,100
Among Us.
So the word of God is scripture

1482
01:33:51,100 --> 01:33:56,800
but it's also Christ.
So Zion will be presided over

1483
01:33:56,800 --> 01:33:59,700
this is That Christ will reign
personally upon the earth, and

1484
01:33:59,700 --> 01:34:06,200
the people prior to his
triumphal return, and raining in

1485
01:34:06,200 --> 01:34:10,900
the flesh during the Millennium,
the people who will be building

1486
01:34:10,900 --> 01:34:15,000
up, Zion will be led by Christ.
They will be instructed by

1487
01:34:15,000 --> 01:34:18,000
Christ and I think that that's
what is is ultimately.

1488
01:34:18,000 --> 01:34:22,400
This is kind of the deepest
layer of this verse 27 that

1489
01:34:22,400 --> 01:34:27,600
thyatira shall rule them the
nations with a rod of iron In

1490
01:34:27,600 --> 01:34:31,800
other words, according to
Christ's personal instructions,

1491
01:34:32,600 --> 01:34:36,200
as the vessels of a Potter,
shall they be broken to Shivers?

1492
01:34:37,200 --> 01:34:41,400
So the hardness that we bring in
to Zion isn't going to last

1493
01:34:41,400 --> 01:34:45,000
because we will be governed by
Christ or we won't be in Zion

1494
01:34:45,700 --> 01:34:50,000
and and and any of our false
Traditions or the hardness of

1495
01:34:50,000 --> 01:34:54,700
our hearts that we carry to Zion
will be broken and I will give

1496
01:34:54,700 --> 01:35:00,700
him the Morning Star verse 28.
Now, the Morning Star, I

1497
01:35:00,700 --> 01:35:03,700
actually had to do a little bit
of research on that too.

1498
01:35:05,100 --> 01:35:08,600
And I found a couple I love
scriptures in the Bible that

1499
01:35:08,600 --> 01:35:13,300
refer to the Morning Star as yet
another name of Christ.

1500
01:35:13,600 --> 01:35:18,100
So in other words to him that
overcometh of thyatira priced,

1501
01:35:18,200 --> 01:35:21,800
will they will be able to
receive Christ and he will

1502
01:35:21,800 --> 01:35:24,200
personally minister to them.
He that hath an ear.

1503
01:35:24,200 --> 01:35:26,500
Let him hear what the spirit
saith, unto the churches.

1504
01:35:27,500 --> 01:35:33,900
Hmm, fascinating So yep so
that's sites here.

1505
01:35:34,500 --> 01:35:37,600
Now the that's the end of
chapter 2 now we're going to

1506
01:35:37,608 --> 01:35:40,800
dive into Revelations chapter 3,
was there anything you wanted to

1507
01:35:40,800 --> 01:35:43,700
say before?
We do know I was just passing

1508
01:35:43,700 --> 01:35:44,900
stuff.
That was good stuff.

1509
01:35:45,700 --> 01:35:49,400
Alright.
So 3:1 unto the angel of the

1510
01:35:49,400 --> 01:35:57,700
church in Sardis Sardis is well
we'll discuss will discuss the

1511
01:35:57,700 --> 01:36:00,900
attributes because I think
there's some really fascinating.

1512
01:36:01,100 --> 01:36:05,900
Anything's here and say half the
seven spirits of God, the Seven

1513
01:36:05,900 --> 01:36:07,700
Stars.
I Know Thy works that thou Hast

1514
01:36:07,700 --> 01:36:09,800
a name that thou livest and art
dead.

1515
01:36:10,200 --> 01:36:14,800
So again Christ is speaking,
that's from chapter 1, verses 4

1516
01:36:14,800 --> 01:36:19,400
and 16 kind of a reference to
some of his titles, but it talks

1517
01:36:19,400 --> 01:36:23,300
about you have, I know.
So Christ knows the works of

1518
01:36:23,300 --> 01:36:28,600
Sardis and thou Hast a name that
thou livest and art dead.

1519
01:36:29,700 --> 01:36:34,300
So, a name, this could be very
literal.

1520
01:36:34,300 --> 01:36:37,900
It could be symbolic of maybe a
reputation that they are a

1521
01:36:37,900 --> 01:36:40,800
living church, but they're
actually dead.

1522
01:36:42,600 --> 01:36:46,300
And so Be watchful and
strengthen the things which

1523
01:36:46,300 --> 01:36:51,900
remain that are ready to die.
So any folks who feel that they

1524
01:36:51,900 --> 01:36:55,700
are, maybe part of Sardis,
you're in a church that has a

1525
01:36:55,700 --> 01:36:59,300
name of being or a reputation of
being a living.

1526
01:36:59,500 --> 01:37:02,100
Church.
But it's actually dead the like

1527
01:37:02,800 --> 01:37:07,300
it's not very living anymore.
Strengthen the things which

1528
01:37:07,300 --> 01:37:09,800
remain that are ready to die
for.

1529
01:37:09,800 --> 01:37:12,800
I have not found thy works
perfect before God.

1530
01:37:13,700 --> 01:37:15,500
Now, I'd like to read an
alternate.

1531
01:37:15,500 --> 01:37:18,100
So that's from the King James,
which is also the the Joseph

1532
01:37:18,100 --> 01:37:25,000
Smith, like inspired version.
But I found verse 2 was kind of

1533
01:37:25,000 --> 01:37:27,800
like not super clear.
So I was on Bible Hub and I

1534
01:37:27,808 --> 01:37:30,900
found a New Living Translation.
Installation that I think

1535
01:37:30,900 --> 01:37:33,500
clarifies these ideas a lot
better.

1536
01:37:34,200 --> 01:37:40,500
So again Sardis wake up,
strengthen what strength and

1537
01:37:40,500 --> 01:37:43,000
what little remains for even
what is left?

1538
01:37:43,000 --> 01:37:47,000
Is almost dead.
I find that your actions do.

1539
01:37:47,000 --> 01:37:49,600
Not meet the requirements of my
God.

1540
01:37:50,200 --> 01:37:55,500
Hmm.
Remember therefore how thou Hast

1541
01:37:55,500 --> 01:38:00,300
received and heard and hold fast
and repent if therefore Thou

1542
01:38:00,300 --> 01:38:03,500
shalt not watch, I will come on
thee as a thief.

1543
01:38:03,500 --> 01:38:05,600
And thou shalt not know what
hour, I will.

1544
01:38:05,600 --> 01:38:09,400
Come upon thee.
So Sardis Church, number 5

1545
01:38:09,800 --> 01:38:13,300
membership here must repent, and
remember what it has received

1546
01:38:13,300 --> 01:38:16,200
and heard in the past and hold
fast to it.

1547
01:38:16,500 --> 01:38:22,400
If you don't Christ will come as
a thief, which means that he's

1548
01:38:22,400 --> 01:38:25,400
going to take you is he will
still like a thief and will be

1549
01:38:25,400 --> 01:38:28,100
lost to you.
The things that you think you

1550
01:38:28,100 --> 01:38:31,100
have will be taken from you and
you don't even see it coming.

1551
01:38:33,400 --> 01:38:37,500
Thou Hast a few names, even in
Sardis, which have not defiled

1552
01:38:37,500 --> 01:38:41,100
their garments, and they shall
walk with me in white for they

1553
01:38:41,100 --> 01:38:45,100
are worthy.
So, this is an Institutional

1554
01:38:45,200 --> 01:38:49,000
condemnation, not an individual,
there are individuals even in

1555
01:38:49,000 --> 01:38:52,000
Sardis Who Remain worthy and
have, not defiled their

1556
01:38:52,000 --> 01:38:57,500
garments.
And, and so to them, I would say

1557
01:38:57,500 --> 01:39:01,200
if you're incident, you know, I
think some of these others, it

1558
01:39:01,200 --> 01:39:03,000
makes sense to kind of hold to
the end.

1559
01:39:03,000 --> 01:39:05,800
Some of the names, I think if
it's not already pretty obvious,

1560
01:39:06,400 --> 01:39:09,200
I'll just come out and say, I
believe this is the, the

1561
01:39:09,400 --> 01:39:13,300
mainstream mother Church LDS is
incorporated.

1562
01:39:13,700 --> 01:39:16,800
I think this is the, the, you
know, they literally owned the

1563
01:39:16,800 --> 01:39:21,100
trademark of the name.
So now has two name like they

1564
01:39:21,100 --> 01:39:23,800
have church, right?
It doesn't get much more clear

1565
01:39:23,800 --> 01:39:27,100
than that, right?
So they've got the name, none of

1566
01:39:27,100 --> 01:39:29,300
these other branches.
Technically legally owns the

1567
01:39:29,300 --> 01:39:32,500
name.
They have a reputation of being

1568
01:39:32,500 --> 01:39:37,200
a living church but as an
institution it is a dead branch.

1569
01:39:38,000 --> 01:39:43,800
And the folks that are within
Sardis, like I think anybody

1570
01:39:43,800 --> 01:39:47,200
probably listening to this
podcast is pretty concerned

1571
01:39:47,200 --> 01:39:51,100
about the current state of enter
the trajectory and the and the

1572
01:39:51,500 --> 01:39:55,000
rate of acceleration of have
where things are headed within

1573
01:39:55,000 --> 01:39:58,700
the church.
And I would just encourage any

1574
01:39:58,700 --> 01:40:01,800
brothers and sisters who are
still within a church that are

1575
01:40:01,800 --> 01:40:06,400
listening to this.
To do not defile, your garments

1576
01:40:06,400 --> 01:40:11,500
hold fast to the the teachings
of the restoration, the

1577
01:40:11,500 --> 01:40:16,600
scriptures, the words of Joseph
and, and the temple ordinances

1578
01:40:16,600 --> 01:40:20,100
the covenants that you have
made, not the not the revised

1579
01:40:20,100 --> 01:40:22,900
ones that are available today,
but the ones you've first

1580
01:40:22,900 --> 01:40:26,400
received that were, you know,
close a little further,

1581
01:40:26,400 --> 01:40:32,300
Upstream, quite as muddy.
This is it's a difficult place

1582
01:40:32,500 --> 01:40:39,900
to find. and yourself to realize
I am in Christchurch but the

1583
01:40:39,900 --> 01:40:47,100
church has a has abandoned
Christ's gospel and and I have

1584
01:40:47,100 --> 01:40:53,400
great empathy because I've been
there and and I guess my message

1585
01:40:53,400 --> 01:41:01,600
is You know, got we can use all
of the good people in the church

1586
01:41:01,700 --> 01:41:06,100
that we can get.
And you know, it may feel like

1587
01:41:06,100 --> 01:41:09,800
an uphill battle because it is
you may be the minority because

1588
01:41:09,800 --> 01:41:14,100
you are but hold fast, don't
defile, your garments.

1589
01:41:14,100 --> 01:41:19,000
Don't break your covenants and
God needs righteous servants

1590
01:41:19,200 --> 01:41:23,500
within even the dead branch of
the mother church and you know

1591
01:41:23,500 --> 01:41:27,100
and there are still Good people
that God has not forgotten.

1592
01:41:27,900 --> 01:41:30,100
Let me just keep going here in
verse 4.

1593
01:41:30,900 --> 01:41:33,600
So the few names even in Sardis,
which have not defiled their

1594
01:41:33,600 --> 01:41:37,800
garments, they shall walk with
me in white for they are worthy.

1595
01:41:39,400 --> 01:41:43,900
He that overcometh in Sardis the
same shall be clothed in white

1596
01:41:43,900 --> 01:41:46,900
raiment, and I will not blot out
his name out of the book of

1597
01:41:46,900 --> 01:41:49,300
life.
But I will confess his name

1598
01:41:49,300 --> 01:41:51,500
before my father and before his
angels.

1599
01:41:52,900 --> 01:41:57,300
So boy, brothers and sisters,
who are in the church?

1600
01:41:59,000 --> 01:42:04,300
The Lord sure seems to be
pointing out that that that

1601
01:42:04,800 --> 01:42:08,100
there's not a lot of them coming
out of this, right?

1602
01:42:08,100 --> 01:42:09,800
I mean is that the vibe you're
getting?

1603
01:42:12,200 --> 01:42:15,500
Yeah, I mean and this is not
really surprising given.

1604
01:42:15,800 --> 01:42:17,700
You think about The Sermon on
the Mount where it's talking

1605
01:42:17,700 --> 01:42:23,700
about the the gate, the the path
the road to condemnation is

1606
01:42:23,700 --> 01:42:28,100
Broad and many there be that
find it and the the path to life

1607
01:42:28,100 --> 01:42:30,800
is narrow and straight and few
there be that find it.

1608
01:42:31,000 --> 01:42:35,100
I will say the church.
The LDS Incorporated mainstream

1609
01:42:35,100 --> 01:42:38,200
church is by far the largest
numeric Branch.

1610
01:42:38,200 --> 01:42:41,800
So few could still be a good
number, you know, we could be.

1611
01:42:41,800 --> 01:42:44,000
So Talking maybe, tens of
thousands.

1612
01:42:44,000 --> 01:42:48,400
I I would hope that there would
be tens of thousands of faithful

1613
01:42:48,400 --> 01:42:54,000
Saints still within the church
membership rolls, but I think

1614
01:42:54,000 --> 01:42:58,200
that their numbers are dwindling
and and they will continue to

1615
01:42:58,200 --> 01:43:02,800
decrease as the trajectory of
the church moves forward.

1616
01:43:04,500 --> 01:43:08,700
And so, I think it's this this
this concept real quick, I just

1617
01:43:08,700 --> 01:43:12,900
finish up this one thought of
being clothed in white that is

1618
01:43:13,700 --> 01:43:21,100
to me a promise that Even if you
feel like a an island in the

1619
01:43:21,100 --> 01:43:23,900
church like you're the only one
still standing for the

1620
01:43:23,900 --> 01:43:27,100
principles of the Constitution
and the restoration, like the

1621
01:43:27,100 --> 01:43:30,100
original teachings and have a
testimony of Joseph, and all of

1622
01:43:30,108 --> 01:43:32,800
these things and they're not
getting swept up in the moment.

1623
01:43:33,400 --> 01:43:37,200
Like even if you feel very
isolated in that situation, your

1624
01:43:37,600 --> 01:43:41,000
God has not forgotten.
You Christ will confess your

1625
01:43:41,000 --> 01:43:45,100
name to the father.
He and you will be clothed in

1626
01:43:45,100 --> 01:43:47,000
white and Christ will present
you.

1627
01:43:47,300 --> 01:43:51,700
Before the father, he that hath
an ear, let him hear you, are

1628
01:43:51,700 --> 01:43:56,000
you were going to say something?
Yeah, this is always a little

1629
01:43:56,000 --> 01:44:01,500
bit of a touchy subject for me
because I get Dude, I'll be

1630
01:44:01,500 --> 01:44:06,600
honest, I get probably 50 emails
a week on this subject, right?

1631
01:44:06,600 --> 01:44:11,200
Like I know something's wrong
but I feel like God's telling me

1632
01:44:11,200 --> 01:44:15,600
to stay and that's a tough place
to be.

1633
01:44:16,000 --> 01:44:18,800
It really is my I have a lot of
sympathy.

1634
01:44:19,100 --> 01:44:25,200
I have a lot of compassion
because obviously I have a, I

1635
01:44:25,208 --> 01:44:27,500
have a lot of admiration.
Yeah.

1636
01:44:27,500 --> 01:44:31,600
Because in that situation, In it
would probably be even as hard

1637
01:44:31,600 --> 01:44:34,700
as it is.
To be an independent

1638
01:44:34,700 --> 01:44:37,500
fundamentalist is probably
easier than being.

1639
01:44:37,500 --> 01:44:40,100
The only one swimming upstream
and everything else is going the

1640
01:44:40,100 --> 01:44:44,000
opposite direction, right?
I've had people ask me, well,

1641
01:44:44,000 --> 01:44:47,700
when is it, do I get out and I'm
like don't ask me bro?

1642
01:44:47,800 --> 01:44:50,500
That's that's between you and
your God, right?

1643
01:44:50,500 --> 01:44:54,300
You better get comfortable with
with asking him that question,

1644
01:44:54,800 --> 01:44:57,300
you know, you got to kind of ask
the Lord.

1645
01:44:57,300 --> 01:44:59,600
What, what is my red line?
Right way.

1646
01:44:59,800 --> 01:45:03,900
Is the line that cannot be
crossed before I have to leave?

1647
01:45:03,900 --> 01:45:07,200
For me.
It was it was the can't even say

1648
01:45:07,200 --> 01:45:08,900
the last round of Temple
changes.

1649
01:45:08,900 --> 01:45:13,900
Now it was the round before that
where I was like okay I'm and

1650
01:45:13,900 --> 01:45:16,700
and this was just me I'm not
telling anybody else what's you

1651
01:45:16,700 --> 01:45:19,300
but for me I was like this is
getting close to that whole

1652
01:45:19,300 --> 01:45:21,100
mocking.
God thing right?

1653
01:45:21,100 --> 01:45:25,600
Because because I know II know
what was there before and I know

1654
01:45:26,000 --> 01:45:30,200
what's here now and so I've got
that now that May not be

1655
01:45:30,200 --> 01:45:33,300
everybody's red wine.
The Lord may have you there

1656
01:45:33,700 --> 01:45:39,200
simply to be a Mormon to witness
the downfall to be one.

1657
01:45:39,200 --> 01:45:42,600
That bears testimony.
And if that's your calling, God

1658
01:45:42,600 --> 01:45:46,000
bless you.
Because you got, you got to have

1659
01:45:46,000 --> 01:45:47,700
some patience and some
fortitude.

1660
01:45:47,900 --> 01:45:50,700
So this is one of those things
where where, you know, I'm like,

1661
01:45:50,700 --> 01:45:53,400
look, you've got to make these
decisions.

1662
01:45:54,800 --> 01:45:57,100
With God.
Don't let me influence.

1663
01:45:57,100 --> 01:45:59,100
You don't let Taylor influence
you.

1664
01:45:59,500 --> 01:46:03,200
You go to your God and you
figure out when it is it's time

1665
01:46:03,200 --> 01:46:07,100
for you to leave.
So I want to be clear on that

1666
01:46:08,000 --> 01:46:11,400
and I think that another I think
I we kind of covered it a little

1667
01:46:11,400 --> 01:46:14,400
bit but it seems like a great
time to remember and remind

1668
01:46:14,400 --> 01:46:18,800
ourselves the beauty of this
perspective of the seven

1669
01:46:18,800 --> 01:46:25,300
churches in Revelations, 2 & 3
is to realize that Okay, I might

1670
01:46:25,300 --> 01:46:28,200
be in this Branch but this isn't
the only Branch.

1671
01:46:28,200 --> 01:46:32,300
This is not the only church and
to know that you're not alone

1672
01:46:32,700 --> 01:46:37,400
and to know that each different
branch of the restoration.

1673
01:46:37,400 --> 01:46:43,200
Each different church has a role
to play and you are being

1674
01:46:43,200 --> 01:46:47,000
uniquely prepared for your
future roles by your current

1675
01:46:47,000 --> 01:46:50,000
experiences.
And so, if you're calling is to

1676
01:46:50,000 --> 01:46:57,600
stay in Sardis, then Then that
is your calling and we will

1677
01:46:57,600 --> 01:47:01,900
support you and we consider you
allies and friends and brothers,

1678
01:47:01,900 --> 01:47:05,100
and sisters in the gospel.
Even if we go to totally

1679
01:47:05,100 --> 01:47:07,400
different churches, on Sunday
and maybe some of our other

1680
01:47:07,400 --> 01:47:09,800
friends, think that that's
impossible, that you can't both

1681
01:47:09,800 --> 01:47:14,300
be part of restoration.
We are this this interpretation

1682
01:47:14,300 --> 01:47:20,000
of Revelations really drives the
point home and so we can be much

1683
01:47:20,000 --> 01:47:22,900
more.
I think supportive of one

1684
01:47:22,900 --> 01:47:28,400
another in our Unique different
roles as we move forward.

1685
01:47:28,400 --> 01:47:30,600
In preparing for the second
coming.

1686
01:47:31,000 --> 01:47:33,900
Absolutely.
And and if there's one thing

1687
01:47:33,900 --> 01:47:36,400
I've tried to do, I've made a
conscious effort of it.

1688
01:47:36,400 --> 01:47:39,500
I don't know if I've succeeded a
whole bunch, but I've tried to

1689
01:47:39,500 --> 01:47:44,500
have active LDS folks on right?
We're because because look where

1690
01:47:44,500 --> 01:47:48,200
we can stand together, we'd
better stand together because

1691
01:47:48,200 --> 01:47:52,300
too often and I don't know if it
ever brings it up in here, but

1692
01:47:52,800 --> 01:47:55,500
too often, what I find is that
That within branches of the

1693
01:47:55,500 --> 01:47:59,100
restoration, we tend to
cannibalize each other, right?

1694
01:47:59,100 --> 01:48:02,300
We tend to beat up on each other
and when were busy fighting

1695
01:48:02,300 --> 01:48:05,500
amongst ourselves?
The real enemy is at the gate,

1696
01:48:06,100 --> 01:48:09,700
the real enemies breaking down
the door and so where we can

1697
01:48:09,700 --> 01:48:12,000
stand together, I think we
absolutely should.

1698
01:48:12,000 --> 01:48:18,100
I mean, I folks like Kimberly
Watson Smith can Peterson Sarah

1699
01:48:18,100 --> 01:48:23,300
Allen, all I mean all active,
develop LDS people and I respect

1700
01:48:23,300 --> 01:48:27,800
who they are.
And I don't necessarily want to

1701
01:48:27,800 --> 01:48:31,300
just pull people from any place
that they feel like God has put

1702
01:48:31,300 --> 01:48:35,900
them.
And so again just do as the Lord

1703
01:48:35,900 --> 01:48:39,900
instructs, you wherever you are,
whatever you're doing the safest

1704
01:48:39,900 --> 01:48:42,600
place for you.
To stand is right where God

1705
01:48:42,600 --> 01:48:47,200
tells you to stand?
Yeah, I will share just maybe

1706
01:48:47,200 --> 01:48:48,700
some of my own personal
experiences.

1707
01:48:48,700 --> 01:48:52,400
So when I first kind of awaken
to my awful situation and I

1708
01:48:52,400 --> 01:48:55,600
realized that that some of the
things that I had been taught in

1709
01:48:55,600 --> 01:48:59,900
my, you know, upbringing within
the church culture were not

1710
01:48:59,900 --> 01:49:02,700
really accurate historically or
doctrinally.

1711
01:49:03,700 --> 01:49:06,400
And I kind of, I gained a
testimony of some of these

1712
01:49:06,400 --> 01:49:10,500
fundamental teachings and early
teachings and principles of the

1713
01:49:10,500 --> 01:49:15,200
gospel.
And I found myself faced with

1714
01:49:15,200 --> 01:49:20,700
the reality that, okay?
I have a testimony that I really

1715
01:49:20,700 --> 01:49:24,200
wasn't even asking for it, but
the spirit gave it to me.

1716
01:49:25,600 --> 01:49:29,400
I mean, I wanted to know the
truth, but I didn't, but I

1717
01:49:29,407 --> 01:49:32,900
gained a testimony of plural
marriage.

1718
01:49:33,100 --> 01:49:35,200
And I'm not a practicing
polygamist.

1719
01:49:35,200 --> 01:49:39,000
I have not practiced the
principle, but I've had a very

1720
01:49:39,200 --> 01:49:42,000
powerful testimony of it.
Born of the spirit for about

1721
01:49:42,000 --> 01:49:46,100
nine years now.
And, you know, I at the time I

1722
01:49:46,100 --> 01:49:52,300
was very active in the church, I
was in gospel principles class

1723
01:49:52,300 --> 01:49:55,100
of or gospel Doctrine class
evolved of all places.

1724
01:49:55,100 --> 01:49:59,400
When this, this testimony came
over me and it was a powerful

1725
01:49:59,400 --> 01:50:01,600
like energy coursing through my
body.

1726
01:50:01,600 --> 01:50:04,200
And it just gave me this pure
knowledge, this this witness

1727
01:50:04,800 --> 01:50:09,200
and, and, you know, it would be
real convenient to convince

1728
01:50:09,200 --> 01:50:12,400
myself.
I was just, you know, deceiving

1729
01:50:12,400 --> 01:50:13,800
myself for it was a
hallucination.

1730
01:50:13,900 --> 01:50:17,000
Nation or who knows, you know,
you to just forget it and

1731
01:50:17,000 --> 01:50:23,300
dismiss it but I can't.
And and so now when I first got

1732
01:50:23,300 --> 01:50:27,400
that witness I was just like, oh
my heck what does this mean?

1733
01:50:28,100 --> 01:50:30,900
And because I was like, shoot,
does this mean I'm gonna be like

1734
01:50:31,100 --> 01:50:34,000
a polygamous soon?
And and I mean I was open to it,

1735
01:50:34,000 --> 01:50:37,900
but I was certainly not in the
in in the zone of I'm going to

1736
01:50:37,907 --> 01:50:43,400
go and it's happen and I think
that there is value to not rush

1737
01:50:43,400 --> 01:50:47,600
into things Like you may get a
testimony of plural marriage.

1738
01:50:47,600 --> 01:50:50,100
That doesn't necessarily mean
that you change anything.

1739
01:50:50,100 --> 01:50:52,600
It maybe it does.
Maybe you do need to, you know,

1740
01:50:52,600 --> 01:50:56,000
find a different branch of the
restoration that would support

1741
01:50:56,000 --> 01:50:59,200
you in in following that if
that's God's will for you but it

1742
01:50:59,200 --> 01:51:01,900
may not.
And in my case, I had

1743
01:51:01,900 --> 01:51:04,900
opportunities over the next
several years, to be an Elders

1744
01:51:04,900 --> 01:51:07,700
Quorum president to be a gospel
Doctrine teacher.

1745
01:51:07,700 --> 01:51:11,300
I was the organist.
And so I had many opportunities

1746
01:51:11,300 --> 01:51:16,200
to serve home teacher and No
various opportunities to serve,

1747
01:51:16,400 --> 01:51:20,700
it would have been a mistake for
me to leave the church just

1748
01:51:20,700 --> 01:51:23,800
because I got a testimony of
something that the church

1749
01:51:24,200 --> 01:51:29,100
doesn't want me to do, or do,
you know, doesn't doesn't

1750
01:51:29,100 --> 01:51:36,200
support and so, but then after,
after a few years, the time came

1751
01:51:36,200 --> 01:51:39,300
that I was led to not attend
church anymore.

1752
01:51:39,400 --> 01:51:42,200
And and my first thought was
okay, well then, which group

1753
01:51:42,200 --> 01:51:44,500
should I join God?
You know, because That mode

1754
01:51:44,500 --> 01:51:47,700
like, okay, well, where do I go
to church now?

1755
01:51:48,200 --> 01:51:50,700
And the spirit really
constrained join.

1756
01:51:50,700 --> 01:51:52,600
None of them.
And so, I felt.

1757
01:51:52,900 --> 01:51:57,100
I felt led to kind of just be an
independent and we did, you

1758
01:51:57,108 --> 01:51:59,700
know, like, we homeschool our
kids, we did home church as well

1759
01:51:59,700 --> 01:52:04,900
for very similar reasons.
And I think that, that, that was

1760
01:52:05,600 --> 01:52:11,400
kind of a, an opportunity for me
to be taught by experience, how

1761
01:52:11,400 --> 01:52:16,100
to stand on my own feet, how To
have more discernment and to to

1762
01:52:16,100 --> 01:52:20,700
be more reliant on on my
heavenly father for guidance and

1763
01:52:20,700 --> 01:52:24,900
very recently just in the last
few months, I have been led to

1764
01:52:24,900 --> 01:52:28,100
join another branch of the
restoration formally and and

1765
01:52:28,100 --> 01:52:31,800
that has also provided great
opportunities for me to learn

1766
01:52:31,800 --> 01:52:34,300
and grow and serve.
And, you know, my family to

1767
01:52:34,300 --> 01:52:38,400
benefit from there, from the
social support and all of that.

1768
01:52:38,600 --> 01:52:45,400
And so, my first, I would just
say to In Sardis that still in

1769
01:52:45,400 --> 01:52:50,200
the church today.
I know it's hard and I commend

1770
01:52:50,200 --> 01:52:53,100
you for your integrity.
Do not defile, your garments

1771
01:52:53,300 --> 01:52:56,100
hold fast to the things that God
has given you and that you have

1772
01:52:56,100 --> 01:52:59,500
testimony of, don't be gas-lit.
Don't allow yourself to forget,

1773
01:52:59,500 --> 01:53:01,900
or let go of these things,
because your soul is in the

1774
01:53:01,900 --> 01:53:04,300
balance.
And if you are faithful, if you

1775
01:53:04,300 --> 01:53:07,400
overcome, you will be clothed in
white Christ will own you before

1776
01:53:07,400 --> 01:53:11,600
the father.
And, and you may be called to

1777
01:53:11,600 --> 01:53:17,000
Bear a burden of Having this
testimony in an environment that

1778
01:53:17,000 --> 01:53:19,600
is not supportive of your
testimony, maybe you'll even get

1779
01:53:19,600 --> 01:53:21,600
excommunicated.
Who knows sometimes that does

1780
01:53:21,600 --> 01:53:24,700
happen.
In which case always be led by

1781
01:53:24,700 --> 01:53:28,100
God in the spirit.
Don't just go join the next

1782
01:53:28,100 --> 01:53:30,000
Church.
Your branch that you come across

1783
01:53:30,000 --> 01:53:33,600
because who knows, I mean if God
leads you to it perfect.

1784
01:53:33,700 --> 01:53:38,200
But be led by God, not your own
wisdom and certainly not other

1785
01:53:38,200 --> 01:53:43,800
men, right?
I do think this is something I

1786
01:53:43,808 --> 01:53:46,500
was going to save to the end of
it, we're getting close to the

1787
01:53:46,500 --> 01:53:47,800
end.
So let's let's start.

1788
01:53:47,900 --> 01:53:50,700
We have a couple more churches
to briefly cover but but I do

1789
01:53:50,700 --> 01:53:54,800
want to say like hopefully this
exercise of going through these

1790
01:53:54,800 --> 01:53:57,000
churches and analyzing it in
this way and having this

1791
01:53:57,000 --> 01:54:02,900
conversation is a wake-up call
to basically put to bed once.

1792
01:54:02,900 --> 01:54:10,400
And for all this whole our man
one man is the only one man and

1793
01:54:10,400 --> 01:54:13,400
an art.
Ranch is the only true branch in

1794
01:54:13,400 --> 01:54:16,800
all of the rest of you guys are
apostates, which is so

1795
01:54:17,200 --> 01:54:19,200
prevalent.
And, and like you were saying,

1796
01:54:19,300 --> 01:54:23,400
I'm encouraged as well to see
many people throwing off that

1797
01:54:23,400 --> 01:54:27,700
false tradition and becoming a
lot more open to, hey, you know

1798
01:54:27,700 --> 01:54:30,400
what, I respect that, you're in
that group.

1799
01:54:30,500 --> 01:54:33,900
I'm in this group, that doesn't
mean that we that I'm the one

1800
01:54:33,900 --> 01:54:38,000
true branch and you're a false
Branch like that, because that

1801
01:54:38,000 --> 01:54:41,000
it kind of goes hand in hand
with the infallibility.

1802
01:54:41,100 --> 01:54:45,100
T Doctrine, this leader worship.
Our one man is the only real one

1803
01:54:45,100 --> 01:54:49,800
man, and he can't be led astray
because God won't allow it, you

1804
01:54:49,800 --> 01:54:54,000
know, which leads to effective
infallibility and it that those

1805
01:54:54,000 --> 01:54:59,400
perspectives cause so much
Division and strife within the

1806
01:54:59,400 --> 01:55:02,000
restoration.
And we just we need to kind of

1807
01:55:02,100 --> 01:55:04,800
we need to get over it.
We need to move past it and get

1808
01:55:04,800 --> 01:55:09,500
beyond that.
I believe that this is a call

1809
01:55:09,500 --> 01:55:13,400
and an invitation for us.
Us to unite with our brothers

1810
01:55:13,400 --> 01:55:17,600
and sisters of the other
branches in the restoration and

1811
01:55:17,600 --> 01:55:21,100
recognize each other as friends
and allies not as rivals or

1812
01:55:21,100 --> 01:55:22,200
enemies.
Yeah.

1813
01:55:22,200 --> 01:55:27,600
And and you go along with that
we're not asking anybody to.

1814
01:55:29,000 --> 01:55:31,600
You know, to give up where
they're at if they're

1815
01:55:31,600 --> 01:55:34,200
comfortable there and they've
been LED there by the Lord.

1816
01:55:34,200 --> 01:55:38,300
We're not saying, you know, stop
going to that one place and go

1817
01:55:38,300 --> 01:55:40,600
to the other place or anything
like that.

1818
01:55:40,700 --> 01:55:46,500
It's just a simple call for
mutual respect and love and and

1819
01:55:46,500 --> 01:55:51,800
charity and brotherly affection.
One to another Yeah.

1820
01:55:52,100 --> 01:55:55,400
And I think if it hasn't been
obvious to yet, like this is

1821
01:55:55,400 --> 01:55:59,500
also a wake-up call, all is not
well in Zion, and it doesn't

1822
01:55:59,500 --> 01:56:04,500
matter which branch of Zion that
you may currently find yourself.

1823
01:56:05,100 --> 01:56:08,800
Every branch has its issues and
we all have our problems in our

1824
01:56:08,800 --> 01:56:11,300
weaknesses and we all need to
repent.

1825
01:56:11,300 --> 01:56:16,500
We all need to put our trust in
Christ and in the father we need

1826
01:56:16,500 --> 01:56:19,600
to overcome.
So these are some general Trends

1827
01:56:19,600 --> 01:56:22,100
but like we said at the
beginning, Beginning, you may

1828
01:56:22,100 --> 01:56:26,700
personally not at all these you
may be part of a branch, but you

1829
01:56:26,700 --> 01:56:30,400
may not struggle personally with
the kind of the general theme of

1830
01:56:30,400 --> 01:56:33,100
that Branch.
But you may have others and you

1831
01:56:33,100 --> 01:56:37,300
may, or you may have a degree of
all of these flaws that.

1832
01:56:37,300 --> 01:56:39,300
And, and we could all benefit
from.

1833
01:56:39,600 --> 01:56:44,800
And so, this is an invitation
for personal reflection, we need

1834
01:56:44,800 --> 01:56:49,100
to become healed, we need to
become Sanctified, you know,

1835
01:56:49,100 --> 01:56:53,500
even if you've repented your
Done like you they're the same

1836
01:56:53,500 --> 01:57:00,600
Tiff, ocation process requires
refining, fire and Zion will be

1837
01:57:00,600 --> 01:57:05,000
built by purified in heart
people and so we must become

1838
01:57:05,000 --> 01:57:09,000
purified and apart and
Sanctified if we strive.

1839
01:57:09,000 --> 01:57:13,300
And if we desire to be part of
Zion in the future and so like

1840
01:57:14,600 --> 01:57:17,100
and it and we're not going to be
the only ones building Zion, I'm

1841
01:57:17,100 --> 01:57:20,200
sorry these others, these seven
churches, the seven different

1842
01:57:20,200 --> 01:57:23,000
branches.
It's not like a hundred percent

1843
01:57:23,000 --> 01:57:26,900
of any one of these branches is
going to be in Zion, but there

1844
01:57:26,900 --> 01:57:29,300
will be representatives, from
all of these branches, who will

1845
01:57:29,300 --> 01:57:32,100
come together and build Zion
when the time comes.

1846
01:57:32,600 --> 01:57:37,300
And and we can recognize one
another as allies and brothers

1847
01:57:37,300 --> 01:57:40,300
and sisters, right?
Yep. /.

1848
01:57:40,300 --> 01:57:42,500
Let's get through these last
couple of churches.

1849
01:57:42,900 --> 01:57:48,100
Now, I had one last thing to
share as we're realizing, we've

1850
01:57:48,100 --> 01:57:50,200
gone down some good tangents and
it was all great.

1851
01:57:50,200 --> 01:57:52,100
But that's That's what I do,
dude.

1852
01:57:52,100 --> 01:57:54,200
You knew what coming on.
So lame?

1853
01:57:54,500 --> 01:57:57,600
Yeah, I'm with you.
All right, so with Revelations

1854
01:57:57,600 --> 01:58:02,000
chapter 3 and verse 7.
We're now on chapped, on Church

1855
01:58:02,400 --> 01:58:06,900
number six in Philadelphia these
things.

1856
01:58:06,900 --> 01:58:10,300
Saith he that is, Holy he, that
is true, he that hath the Key of

1857
01:58:10,300 --> 01:58:12,600
David.
He that openeth and no man,

1858
01:58:12,600 --> 01:58:15,400
shutteth and shutteth and no man
openeth.

1859
01:58:16,600 --> 01:58:21,100
Now this is unique because these
descriptions of Christ which is

1860
01:58:21,100 --> 01:58:24,900
clearly Christ being described
here but these are not found in

1861
01:58:24,900 --> 01:58:27,900
chapter 1.
This is the only of the sixth of

1862
01:58:27,900 --> 01:58:29,700
the seven churches.
This is only one that doesn't

1863
01:58:29,700 --> 01:58:32,300
have these titles and
descriptions of Christ up here

1864
01:58:32,300 --> 01:58:35,700
in chapter one but it conveys
Christ.

1865
01:58:35,700 --> 01:58:40,400
His sealing power his connection
to the House of David or you

1866
01:58:40,407 --> 01:58:43,100
know, of the tribe, his kingship
in the tribe of Judah.

1867
01:58:43,500 --> 01:58:45,500
And so this is a little
different.

1868
01:58:46,100 --> 01:58:49,000
I Know Thy Works.
Verse 8, behold I have set

1869
01:58:49,000 --> 01:58:54,000
before thee an open door and no
man can shut it for thou Hast a

1870
01:58:54,008 --> 01:58:57,200
little strength, and has kept my
word and Hast, not denied my

1871
01:58:57,200 --> 01:59:00,400
name.
So Philadelphia Church number

1872
01:59:00,400 --> 01:59:06,600
six, they have an open
invitation from Christ, that no

1873
01:59:06,600 --> 01:59:11,800
man can revoke, and it's just
open and it would it would

1874
01:59:11,800 --> 01:59:14,900
appear to suggest that maybe
they haven't accepted that

1875
01:59:14,900 --> 01:59:17,000
invitation yet.
But it is available.

1876
01:59:17,000 --> 01:59:20,100
And eventually the time will
come, when they walk through

1877
01:59:20,100 --> 01:59:25,000
that Open Door, behold verse 9,
I will make them of the

1878
01:59:25,000 --> 01:59:28,000
synagogue of Satan which say
they are Jews and are not.

1879
01:59:28,000 --> 01:59:32,200
But do lie behold.
I will make them to come and

1880
01:59:32,200 --> 01:59:36,600
worship before thy feet and to
know that I have loved thee.

1881
01:59:38,800 --> 01:59:45,400
So so this church, this branch
of the restoration, they do not

1882
01:59:45,400 --> 01:59:49,200
deny the name of Christ, that's
really important in verse 8, but

1883
01:59:49,200 --> 01:59:52,400
it's interesting because in
verse 9, it starts describing

1884
01:59:52,400 --> 01:59:57,700
things like this synagogue of
Satan these fake Jews and it's

1885
01:59:57,700 --> 02:00:01,500
saying that the these fake Jews
will be forced or, you know,

1886
02:00:01,500 --> 02:00:06,300
compelled to come and learn how
to Worship in truth.

1887
02:00:07,100 --> 02:00:10,600
From this branch of the
restoration now.

1888
02:00:11,700 --> 02:00:16,300
There are surprisingly a lot of
people within the restoration

1889
02:00:16,700 --> 02:00:21,400
who have felt inclined to to
start doing like some of the

1890
02:00:21,400 --> 02:00:25,400
Passover and the Sukkot and
Shavuot and some of these

1891
02:00:25,700 --> 02:00:30,600
ancient Hebrew feasts and
holidays and festivals and and

1892
02:00:30,600 --> 02:00:38,200
become more of a like Messianic
Orthodox kind of Jewish practice

1893
02:00:38,200 --> 02:00:40,000
of the rest of the form of the
restoration.

1894
02:00:40,000 --> 02:00:45,700
And I think that, as long as
they do not deny Christ name and

1895
02:00:45,700 --> 02:00:47,600
hold fast the to the
restoration.

1896
02:00:47,600 --> 02:00:55,300
This is an interesting Branch,
the these the fake Jews who are,

1897
02:00:55,300 --> 02:00:57,700
you know, maybe culturally
Jewish but are not actually

1898
02:00:57,700 --> 02:01:00,600
worshiping at, is God ever asked
of the user of any of the

1899
02:01:00,600 --> 02:01:02,700
ancient Hebrews.
They're going to be taught by

1900
02:01:02,700 --> 02:01:06,500
this brand.
And in verse 10 because thou has

1901
02:01:06,500 --> 02:01:09,500
kept the word of my patience.
I will also keep thee from the

1902
02:01:09,500 --> 02:01:13,000
hour of Temptation which shall
come upon all the world to try

1903
02:01:13,000 --> 02:01:19,500
them that dwell upon the Earth.
And behold, I come quickly hold

1904
02:01:19,500 --> 02:01:23,000
that fast which thou Hast that?
No man take thy Crown.

1905
02:01:23,400 --> 02:01:28,600
So they're promised protection,
if they will hold fast and

1906
02:01:28,600 --> 02:01:31,100
someone I guess it may be.
Some people may try to take

1907
02:01:31,100 --> 02:01:34,300
their Crown so you know, they'll
be able to keep it if they hold

1908
02:01:34,300 --> 02:01:40,000
fast verse 12.
This begins to come to go

1909
02:01:40,000 --> 02:01:43,200
through some of the promises of
this Branch him.

1910
02:01:43,200 --> 02:01:45,100
That overcometh.
Will I make a pill?

1911
02:01:45,200 --> 02:01:48,400
Her in the temple of my God and
he shall go no more out.

1912
02:01:48,500 --> 02:01:51,400
And I will write upon him, the
name of my God and the name of

1913
02:01:51,400 --> 02:01:55,000
the city of my God, which is New
Jerusalem, which cometh down out

1914
02:01:55,000 --> 02:01:58,300
of Heaven, from my God.
And I will write upon him my new

1915
02:01:58,300 --> 02:02:02,800
name.
So if they overcome which to me

1916
02:02:03,000 --> 02:02:07,800
is just hope that holding fast
and also walking through that

1917
02:02:07,900 --> 02:02:10,400
Open Door, the invitation has
been extended once.

1918
02:02:10,400 --> 02:02:17,200
They accept it, they have been
promised to be Just part

1919
02:02:17,200 --> 02:02:21,000
partakers of the temple, but to
be made a pillar in the temple.

1920
02:02:21,200 --> 02:02:25,800
This to me suggests some
Priestly roles in the temple of

1921
02:02:26,100 --> 02:02:29,400
Jerusalem.
And so this is a very

1922
02:02:29,400 --> 02:02:33,700
interesting promise to the, to
this Branch, this is this is

1923
02:02:33,700 --> 02:02:35,900
this is quite a unique Church,
you know?

1924
02:02:36,000 --> 02:02:40,400
Right.
This this particular one and

1925
02:02:41,100 --> 02:02:48,400
it's Philadelphia and Anyway, so
we'll talk about, maybe some

1926
02:02:48,400 --> 02:02:51,400
speculation on who that could
apply to in just a minute.

1927
02:02:51,400 --> 02:02:52,700
Let's go through the very last
church.

1928
02:02:52,700 --> 02:02:58,100
So this is verse 14.
The seventh Church on to the

1929
02:02:58,100 --> 02:03:01,400
Church of the laodiceans, write
these things, saith the amen,

1930
02:03:01,400 --> 02:03:04,000
the faithful and true witness
the beginning of the creation of

1931
02:03:04,000 --> 02:03:06,100
God.
That's a title of Christ.

1932
02:03:06,100 --> 02:03:11,400
In verse 5 of chapter, 1 loud.
Asea I Know Thy works that thou

1933
02:03:11,400 --> 02:03:16,200
art, neither cold nor hot.
I would Would that thou Wert

1934
02:03:16,200 --> 02:03:20,500
cold or hot?
So loud of a see it.

1935
02:03:20,500 --> 02:03:23,900
There's there's it's kind of a
fence writing type of a of a

1936
02:03:23,900 --> 02:03:27,100
group warm so then because Thou
Art lukewarm and neither cold

1937
02:03:27,100 --> 02:03:29,000
nor hot.
I will spue thee out of my

1938
02:03:29,000 --> 02:03:33,000
mouth.
Now this one may apply generally

1939
02:03:33,000 --> 02:03:37,300
to the group of loud, ecija this
particular church or Branch, but

1940
02:03:37,300 --> 02:03:43,800
I think that all of us have at
least some opportunity to become

1941
02:03:43,800 --> 02:03:46,700
a little more hot or cold in our
discipleship, whether it could

1942
02:03:46,700 --> 02:03:51,000
be in How we practice our
religion, in our political

1943
02:03:51,000 --> 02:03:55,200
involvement, how we practice our
religion in our family

1944
02:03:55,200 --> 02:03:58,800
relationships, how we do it in
our communities, let alone in

1945
02:03:58,800 --> 02:04:04,300
our church in our faith, right?
You know, dipole ship is, is a

1946
02:04:04,300 --> 02:04:08,100
whole life Pursuit, not just a
Sunday, you know, spiritual

1947
02:04:08,100 --> 02:04:14,300
Pursuit and so I will spue thee
out of my mouth because you're

1948
02:04:14,300 --> 02:04:17,800
lukewarm, you remember that
story, a friend of mine, shared

1949
02:04:17,800 --> 02:04:19,700
a story.
About, you know, there is this

1950
02:04:19,700 --> 02:04:24,200
big field and Christ was on one
side and Satan is on the other

1951
02:04:24,200 --> 02:04:27,600
side, the devil and they were
trying to persuade people to

1952
02:04:27,600 --> 02:04:30,800
come and follow after them and
right down the middle was a big

1953
02:04:30,800 --> 02:04:35,800
fence separating the two and all
of the people had to pick one

1954
02:04:35,800 --> 02:04:39,800
side or the other and you know
many followed Christ, many

1955
02:04:39,800 --> 02:04:43,700
followed the devil.
One guy wouldn't pick.

1956
02:04:43,800 --> 02:04:47,500
He refused both sides didn't
really like the terms either way

1957
02:04:47,500 --> 02:04:51,400
and so So everybody else had
made their decision and we're

1958
02:04:51,400 --> 02:04:54,900
kind of wandering off and the
Devil comes back and he's like,

1959
02:04:54,900 --> 02:04:58,600
looking around and like, like he
lost something and he looks

1960
02:04:58,600 --> 02:05:01,400
around and the guys like are you
looking for something?

1961
02:05:02,000 --> 02:05:04,200
And the devil looks up at him
and he's sitting on the fence

1962
02:05:04,200 --> 02:05:07,000
and he says, oh there you are.
Come with me and the guys, like,

1963
02:05:07,000 --> 02:05:10,700
I didn't pick you, And the
devil's, like, I know you didn't

1964
02:05:10,700 --> 02:05:16,600
take me, but I own the fence,
that's pretty good.

1965
02:05:17,400 --> 02:05:22,400
So so yeah, this idea that we
can, you know, play the Diplomat

1966
02:05:22,400 --> 02:05:25,600
or play both sides or not, make
a firm commitment, one way or

1967
02:05:25,608 --> 02:05:29,700
another, not making a commitment
is also a commitment.

1968
02:05:29,700 --> 02:05:34,700
It's a decision.
And so that's a warning in

1969
02:05:34,700 --> 02:05:37,000
general of this seventh church,
this Branch.

1970
02:05:37,000 --> 02:05:41,400
But I think that all of us
personally should consider that

1971
02:05:41,407 --> 02:05:45,000
and, you know, look in the
mirror, right?

1972
02:05:45,000 --> 02:05:48,800
Comes to that this, these next
verse 17.

1973
02:05:48,800 --> 02:05:52,400
This is kind of unique.
This Branch this allowed to see

1974
02:05:52,400 --> 02:05:55,500
you because thou sayest.
I am rich and increased with

1975
02:05:55,500 --> 02:05:58,700
goods and have need of nothing
and knowest, not that thou art

1976
02:05:58,700 --> 02:06:02,700
wretched and miserable and poor.
And And blind and naked.

1977
02:06:03,800 --> 02:06:09,800
So this is kind of the inverse
of thyatira that the second

1978
02:06:09,800 --> 02:06:16,600
Church on, you know, was there
The second Rouge was.

1979
02:06:20,100 --> 02:06:27,000
Ephesus loudest.
I don't know why it's so I can't

1980
02:06:27,000 --> 02:06:29,300
I can remember.
So the theater is not the the

1981
02:06:29,300 --> 02:06:34,200
second Church artists thyatira
Philadelphia.

1982
02:06:35,800 --> 02:06:42,300
We're going MOS.
Is it Smyrna, Smyrna?

1983
02:06:42,500 --> 02:06:45,300
That suit is so Smyrna, is kind
of the inverse.

1984
02:06:45,300 --> 02:06:49,300
Smyrna is described as basically
temporally in poverty.

1985
02:06:49,300 --> 02:06:53,400
But spiritually, Rich loud.
Asea is basically described as

1986
02:06:53,400 --> 02:06:56,300
temporally, very rich or wealthy
increased with Goods.

1987
02:06:56,300 --> 02:06:59,700
They don't need anything but
they're actually spiritually

1988
02:06:59,700 --> 02:07:02,000
impoverished.
The Wretched miserable poor

1989
02:07:02,000 --> 02:07:05,700
blind and naked, that's
interesting.

1990
02:07:05,800 --> 02:07:09,500
Yeah.
And and if it's a general thing,

1991
02:07:09,500 --> 02:07:15,400
that applies great but it could
also apply personally doesn't

1992
02:07:15,400 --> 02:07:19,300
apply to me.
You know, I feel like tevye if

1993
02:07:19,300 --> 02:07:21,600
riches are a curse.
May God smite me with it and I

1994
02:07:21,600 --> 02:07:26,700
never recover.
Yeah, I I could I could I could

1995
02:07:26,700 --> 02:07:30,300
probably figure out how to deal
with that curse if it came down

1996
02:07:30,300 --> 02:07:32,800
to it.
That's not a, That's Not My

1997
02:07:32,800 --> 02:07:37,300
Cross to Bear, but I know that
many people do have that and And

1998
02:07:37,300 --> 02:07:41,100
it, I would invite any
individuals that this applies

1999
02:07:41,100 --> 02:07:43,400
to.
That does enjoy personal, you

2000
02:07:43,400 --> 02:07:47,100
know, temporal wealth.
Make sure that you're not

2001
02:07:47,100 --> 02:07:52,700
neglecting the spirit, right?
So Verse 18.

2002
02:07:52,700 --> 02:07:56,600
I counsel thee to buy of me.
Gold tried in the fire that thou

2003
02:07:56,600 --> 02:07:59,200
mayest be rich and white
raiment, that thou mayest be

2004
02:07:59,200 --> 02:08:01,100
clothed.
And that the shame of thy

2005
02:08:01,100 --> 02:08:04,500
nakedness, do not appear, and
anoint thine eyes with eye

2006
02:08:04,500 --> 02:08:06,000
Salve.
That thou mayest.

2007
02:08:06,000 --> 02:08:11,600
See.
So the priority here so you

2008
02:08:11,600 --> 02:08:13,700
don't put our trust in temporal
Goods.

2009
02:08:14,300 --> 02:08:17,500
Gold is a precious metal and it
retains value.

2010
02:08:17,500 --> 02:08:20,200
It's a hedge against inflation.
I mean it's a great investment.

2011
02:08:20,200 --> 02:08:24,500
If you have like a retirement or
prefer portfolio 100%.

2012
02:08:24,500 --> 02:08:27,800
I think gold is a great place to
put that but this is referring

2013
02:08:27,800 --> 02:08:33,500
to a spiritual purchase of God.
In other words, we make

2014
02:08:33,900 --> 02:08:38,000
voluntary payments to God.
We would Translate that to

2015
02:08:38,000 --> 02:08:40,800
sacrifice, this is the principle
of sacrifice.

2016
02:08:40,800 --> 02:08:44,800
When you lay a sacrifice on the
altar, we are making a spiritual

2017
02:08:44,800 --> 02:08:47,700
payment to God of our own free
will and choice.

2018
02:08:48,100 --> 02:08:51,900
And and really the any religion
that doesn't require the

2019
02:08:51,900 --> 02:08:55,000
sacrifice of all things.
Cannot produce the faith

2020
02:08:55,000 --> 02:08:58,000
necessary to Salvation.
It's not just because God wants

2021
02:08:58,000 --> 02:09:01,000
our stuff, he's got all this
stuff like he doesn't need our

2022
02:09:01,000 --> 02:09:04,500
stuff.
We need to surrender and make

2023
02:09:04,500 --> 02:09:07,000
that voluntary, sacrifice in
payment.

2024
02:09:07,300 --> 02:09:10,900
In order to Humble ourselves,
choose to be humble, rather than

2025
02:09:10,900 --> 02:09:12,600
compelled to be compelled to be
humble.

2026
02:09:13,000 --> 02:09:16,000
And this is really, by making
those sacrifices.

2027
02:09:16,500 --> 02:09:19,100
And it may be in the form of,
like, the rich, man, who asked,

2028
02:09:19,100 --> 02:09:22,000
Jesus, what lack I yet and he
says, give everything you have

2029
02:09:22,000 --> 02:09:25,900
to the poor and follow me.
It could be a sacrifice of all

2030
02:09:26,100 --> 02:09:27,700
worldly wealth.
I don't know.

2031
02:09:27,800 --> 02:09:29,300
I'm not that.
I'm not God.

2032
02:09:29,400 --> 02:09:31,900
If that is your cross though, if
that's God's calling for you,

2033
02:09:32,300 --> 02:09:35,400
it's worth it.
Like it may seem like money.

2034
02:09:35,400 --> 02:09:37,000
You have the harder.
It probably is.

2035
02:09:37,100 --> 02:09:39,700
Is to sacrifice everything.
If you're, if you got nothing

2036
02:09:40,200 --> 02:09:43,000
giving everything away.
So you can follow God, isn't

2037
02:09:43,000 --> 02:09:46,100
that big of a sacrifice?
I think that the nature of these

2038
02:09:46,200 --> 02:09:50,600
temporal riches is it can?
If we're not careful, it can be

2039
02:09:50,600 --> 02:09:55,200
a barrier to discipleship.
And so, we need to obtain

2040
02:09:55,200 --> 02:09:58,400
spiritual wealth.
And, you know, it talks about

2041
02:09:58,400 --> 02:10:02,000
nakedness.
So spiritual clothing or armor.

2042
02:10:02,000 --> 02:10:03,900
The armor of God.
Yep.

2043
02:10:04,700 --> 02:10:08,100
And then I Sava talks about we
And discernment.

2044
02:10:08,100 --> 02:10:12,600
We need to be able to see and
perceive truth spiritually.

2045
02:10:13,300 --> 02:10:15,600
And so it's referring to this
eye Salve.

2046
02:10:15,800 --> 02:10:19,300
These are the things that when
you make that spiritual payment

2047
02:10:19,300 --> 02:10:24,400
to God, he will give you a us.
The gift of protection armor,

2048
02:10:24,700 --> 02:10:30,300
and site discernment verse 19.
As many as I love, I rebuke and

2049
02:10:30,300 --> 02:10:32,900
chasten be zealous therefore and
repent.

2050
02:10:33,900 --> 02:10:37,200
Behold I stand at the door and
knock If any man hear my voice

2051
02:10:37,200 --> 02:10:40,900
and open the door, I will come
in to him and will sup with him

2052
02:10:41,200 --> 02:10:47,900
and he with me.
So Christ is there he is not the

2053
02:10:47,900 --> 02:10:53,200
limiting factor in this
invitation he's waiting, it's

2054
02:10:53,200 --> 02:10:55,800
the this individual or this
church.

2055
02:10:55,800 --> 02:11:01,500
This Branch to open the door
and, you know, receive and you

2056
02:11:01,508 --> 02:11:06,700
know the The, the spiritual ears
and open up to him to him that

2057
02:11:06,700 --> 02:11:10,600
overcometh.
Will I grant to sit with me in

2058
02:11:10,600 --> 02:11:12,700
my throne?
Even as I also overcame and a.m.

2059
02:11:12,700 --> 02:11:17,100
set down with my father in his
throne, so joint Airship is the

2060
02:11:17,100 --> 02:11:20,500
promise he that hath an ear.
Let him hear what the spirit

2061
02:11:20,500 --> 02:11:24,100
saith unto the churches.
Hmm.

2062
02:11:24,400 --> 02:11:29,900
And those are the seven churches
of of Revelations chapter 1

2063
02:11:29,900 --> 02:11:34,900
through 3.
Let me go through real quick and

2064
02:11:34,900 --> 02:11:38,100
I'll just these are just
personal speculations.

2065
02:11:38,800 --> 02:11:43,100
I personally see kind of some
fit, but I could be wrong.

2066
02:11:43,500 --> 02:11:47,700
And and I may be missing some,
I'm a, you know, the I think

2067
02:11:47,700 --> 02:11:51,800
that maybe like, for instance,
going first off to Ephesus, I

2068
02:11:51,800 --> 02:11:53,500
think Ephesus is a beautiful
church.

2069
02:11:53,900 --> 02:11:57,800
Have they have a lot of amazing,
good things.

2070
02:11:57,800 --> 02:12:00,400
And then just a few things,
like, the no.

2071
02:12:00,400 --> 02:12:03,000
Stop neglecting the first love.
Be the first.

2072
02:12:04,400 --> 02:12:09,600
This would be a, they have not
allowed false teachers and false

2073
02:12:09,600 --> 02:12:12,900
leaders to, to lead them to
destruction these.

2074
02:12:12,900 --> 02:12:16,700
I would say it would be folks
like the Nielsen's, the nailers

2075
02:12:16,700 --> 02:12:20,000
Winston Blackmore were up in
Canada Shem.

2076
02:12:20,000 --> 02:12:22,900
And some of the Johnsons up in
northern Idaho, there's some

2077
02:12:22,900 --> 02:12:26,900
folks out in Missouri.
They basically begun to kind of

2078
02:12:28,600 --> 02:12:33,000
gather various Pockets that had
just been so fragmented.

2079
02:12:33,100 --> 02:12:36,700
Cuz you know they would see
something go funky or wrong in

2080
02:12:36,700 --> 02:12:39,900
the fundamentalist leadership
and they're like, well we're not

2081
02:12:39,900 --> 02:12:41,800
following that.
I'm not going to sustain that or

2082
02:12:41,800 --> 02:12:45,300
go along with that.
And so they kind of Just divided

2083
02:12:45,300 --> 02:12:47,700
themselves.
But they've begun to gather

2084
02:12:47,700 --> 02:12:50,700
again.
And and so they're doing a lot

2085
02:12:50,700 --> 02:12:54,600
of work, they are.
I think well on the way of

2086
02:12:56,400 --> 02:13:00,300
overcoming, some of the
problems, they're still always

2087
02:13:00,300 --> 02:13:03,600
room to grow and each
individual's are different.

2088
02:13:03,600 --> 02:13:07,200
Some of the individuals are very
far along in my opinion that I

2089
02:13:07,208 --> 02:13:10,800
know and have worked with in
love many others.

2090
02:13:10,800 --> 02:13:14,300
Maybe are just beginning
starting to work.

2091
02:13:14,300 --> 02:13:19,500
The right direction but that
would be my identification of

2092
02:13:19,500 --> 02:13:22,400
the first church Ephesus.
Okay, Smyrna.

2093
02:13:22,400 --> 02:13:25,000
I guess I already kind of said,
yes, we're learning is oriented

2094
02:13:25,000 --> 02:13:30,500
work on scene and I guess
another one.

2095
02:13:30,700 --> 02:13:33,100
Are you familiar with the guy?
There was the police officer.

2096
02:13:33,100 --> 02:13:37,700
I think Roy Potter was his name.
He's an independent.

2097
02:13:37,700 --> 02:13:42,200
And he gained a testimony of the
gospel and was blackballed.

2098
02:13:42,200 --> 02:13:44,300
He had to move out of state
because he was a police officer.

2099
02:13:44,308 --> 02:13:46,100
Officer.
He was actually very well

2100
02:13:46,100 --> 02:13:48,200
respected in this field but then
it came.

2101
02:13:48,300 --> 02:13:51,400
It came out that he was a
practicing polygamist, he got

2102
02:13:51,400 --> 02:13:54,100
excommunicated from the church.
He got fired from his job and

2103
02:13:54,100 --> 02:13:56,100
couldn't get work, so he had to
move out of state.

2104
02:13:57,400 --> 02:14:02,100
And so just again, struggled,
financially temporarily, but

2105
02:14:02,100 --> 02:14:06,700
many amazing spiritual gifts.
So, and obviously, I think the

2106
02:14:06,700 --> 02:14:10,500
crowds Ogden Kevin Crowder are
some of the very prominent

2107
02:14:10,500 --> 02:14:15,900
names, angst Independence.
So the Third Church pergamos.

2108
02:14:17,100 --> 02:14:23,000
They I think headquartered near
Salt Lake is a good indication.

2109
02:14:23,000 --> 02:14:26,500
This is probably the Allred
group also known as the,

2110
02:14:26,500 --> 02:14:31,800
apostolic United Brethren and
and be the other thing.

2111
02:14:31,800 --> 02:14:38,800
I think that really correlates.
Well, here is ruling was ruling,

2112
02:14:38,800 --> 02:14:42,700
all red if anybody is not
familiar with that history, he

2113
02:14:42,700 --> 02:14:46,200
was murdered.
By an extremist from a different

2114
02:14:46,200 --> 02:14:51,800
faction in the 70s.
And, and he was someone who

2115
02:14:51,800 --> 02:14:53,800
testified that he had seen the
Savior.

2116
02:14:53,800 --> 02:14:58,100
And, you know, was it was an
apostle in word, not just in

2117
02:14:58,100 --> 02:15:02,400
title, are indeed, not just in
word, I should say, faithful

2118
02:15:02,400 --> 02:15:06,500
martyr there.
And so, man of some, of the

2119
02:15:06,508 --> 02:15:11,400
cautions, there may come across
as harsh or critical of the all

2120
02:15:11,400 --> 02:15:13,300
reds.
I don't mean it that way.

2121
02:15:13,300 --> 02:15:17,300
I think that You know, take take
it for what it's worth if there

2122
02:15:17,300 --> 02:15:21,200
is application here.
The the it's an invitation to

2123
02:15:21,200 --> 02:15:25,000
repent and do better and all of
us can repent and do better.

2124
02:15:25,000 --> 02:15:30,700
We all need that reminder
possibly Peterson's could be

2125
02:15:30,800 --> 02:15:34,200
part of that Branch as well
because they kind of came from.

2126
02:15:34,300 --> 02:15:37,900
They're basically like, they
broke directly off the all reds,

2127
02:15:38,200 --> 02:15:40,400
Gerald.
I don't, I don't really know the

2128
02:15:40,400 --> 02:15:44,700
history, but I've heard that he
was also a martyr and it was,

2129
02:15:44,700 --> 02:15:47,900
you know, had a testimony as an
apostle and then was like, a

2130
02:15:47,900 --> 02:15:49,900
faithful martyr.
I don't know.

2131
02:15:49,900 --> 02:15:54,800
I'll defer to somebody that has
more experience or knowledge to

2132
02:15:54,800 --> 02:15:58,600
cease outfit.
Anyway, that that's another

2133
02:15:58,600 --> 02:16:02,100
possibility.
So the fourth Church thyatira,

2134
02:16:03,600 --> 02:16:09,500
there is a group out in Missouri
who I have a great love and

2135
02:16:09,500 --> 02:16:15,700
respect for they are lob family.
And, and Kind of network, that's

2136
02:16:15,700 --> 02:16:19,300
not just the logs, but they're
kind of the most prominent name.

2137
02:16:19,300 --> 02:16:24,600
So we kind of call them the
logs, but they, they are very

2138
02:16:24,600 --> 02:16:28,300
engaged in preparing for Zion
there in Missouri.

2139
02:16:28,300 --> 02:16:33,200
Not in, not in, you know,
Independence, but few hours

2140
02:16:33,200 --> 02:16:37,700
away.
They are in making amazing

2141
02:16:37,700 --> 02:16:41,500
strides towards just building a
self-sustaining Community.

2142
02:16:41,799 --> 02:16:44,500
You know, they can live off grid
pretty well there, They're

2143
02:16:44,500 --> 02:16:47,200
they're not dependent upon
Babylon.

2144
02:16:47,200 --> 02:16:51,200
Like most of us are right for
our livelihoods and four are

2145
02:16:52,000 --> 02:16:58,000
they they're in the process of
you know preparing a temple in

2146
02:16:58,200 --> 02:17:00,700
that area.
They're doing amazing things.

2147
02:17:00,700 --> 02:17:03,100
So like when it says, they're
doing more now than they ever

2148
02:17:03,100 --> 02:17:05,500
have before, I think that that
really applies what.

2149
02:17:05,500 --> 02:17:10,799
Well, I think they have seen
some of the problems of being

2150
02:17:10,799 --> 02:17:15,500
allowing some of their family
and some of their brother To be

2151
02:17:15,500 --> 02:17:19,000
seduced by sectarian
Christianity and forsake some of

2152
02:17:19,000 --> 02:17:23,900
the principles of the fullness
and the the tragedy that it

2153
02:17:23,900 --> 02:17:28,900
causes with the children and,
you know, families being broken

2154
02:17:28,900 --> 02:17:32,299
up and all of that.
And you know, again I don't

2155
02:17:32,299 --> 02:17:34,500
there are some pretty harsh
criticisms.

2156
02:17:35,299 --> 02:17:38,600
I'm not saying this because I'm
trying to condemn anybody.

2157
02:17:38,600 --> 02:17:43,200
I'm just saying, if these
principles apply whether it's to

2158
02:17:43,200 --> 02:17:47,200
your group or two, You
personally, I invite you to

2159
02:17:47,500 --> 02:17:52,200
receive them humbly and and the
promises if you overcome are

2160
02:17:52,200 --> 02:17:55,600
pretty amazing.
So start person that would that

2161
02:17:55,600 --> 02:17:58,500
would be the other thing.
I'd say, start person before.

2162
02:17:59,400 --> 02:18:02,000
Before you think you're going to
go correct, anybody else?

2163
02:18:02,000 --> 02:18:06,400
This should be more of a Call of
looking at yourself before you

2164
02:18:06,400 --> 02:18:08,700
start looking at at your
neighbor.

2165
02:18:09,500 --> 02:18:12,700
So any and I actually I have
ties to the lab.

2166
02:18:12,700 --> 02:18:14,799
So I would also apply that to do
Self.

2167
02:18:14,799 --> 02:18:18,600
And this is something that
engine to be vigilant and guard

2168
02:18:18,600 --> 02:18:20,600
against and also worn my
neighbor.

2169
02:18:20,600 --> 02:18:24,299
Because if, if I perceive a
threat or a problem and I don't

2170
02:18:24,299 --> 02:18:28,700
do anything, how is that true
love for my brother and if I

2171
02:18:28,700 --> 02:18:30,900
don't even warning him of
something that could be

2172
02:18:30,900 --> 02:18:34,100
catastrophic spiritually.
So, yeah.

2173
02:18:34,600 --> 02:18:38,600
And then so Sardis is number
five, the mainstream church.

2174
02:18:38,600 --> 02:18:41,600
We talked quite extensively
about that Philadelphia.

2175
02:18:41,900 --> 02:18:45,400
This really unique branch.
That is Kind of may be

2176
02:18:45,400 --> 02:18:48,299
practicing some of the Old
Testament ceremonies and

2177
02:18:48,299 --> 02:18:51,400
festivals Incorporated with the
restoration, but they are not

2178
02:18:51,400 --> 02:18:54,200
denying the name of Christ and
they're preserving and holding

2179
02:18:54,200 --> 02:18:57,400
fast that what they have, they
have a little strength.

2180
02:18:57,700 --> 02:19:02,100
I think that this would be a
great representative that the

2181
02:19:02,100 --> 02:19:07,100
the zarahemla foundation would
be a great you no match for this

2182
02:19:07,100 --> 02:19:13,700
Philadelphia Church decision.
Who folks are great, folks, a

2183
02:19:13,700 --> 02:19:14,600
lot of good.
Friends.

2184
02:19:14,600 --> 02:19:18,400
And I fellowship with them many
times over the years, I love

2185
02:19:18,400 --> 02:19:21,799
them dearly as well.
And and, you know, and just,

2186
02:19:22,700 --> 02:19:27,600
again invite them to whenever
the time is and they're moved to

2187
02:19:27,600 --> 02:19:31,700
walk through that door and
accept that invitation and I do,

2188
02:19:32,100 --> 02:19:37,299
I do see them fulfilling a
Priestly role in the temple.

2189
02:19:37,500 --> 02:19:40,700
Diane, Josh.
Yeah, the zarahemla foundation

2190
02:19:40,700 --> 02:19:43,299
has done a great job in
preserving.

2191
02:19:44,200 --> 02:19:50,200
Preserving a Heritage, right,
that that that with the lens,

2192
02:19:50,200 --> 02:19:52,800
through the lens of the
restoration to right through the

2193
02:19:52,800 --> 02:19:55,500
lens of the restoration that and
and that was something that

2194
02:19:55,500 --> 02:19:59,100
impressed me early on as I got
to talk to Joshua.

2195
02:19:59,100 --> 02:20:04,100
So frequently on here was that
even though he was holding fast

2196
02:20:04,500 --> 02:20:09,100
to those Jewish customs in the
Jewish rites like Passover and

2197
02:20:09,108 --> 02:20:12,400
that sort of thing, he was doing
it through the lens of Christ,

2198
02:20:12,400 --> 02:20:13,900
and through the lens of the
restoration.

2199
02:20:14,400 --> 02:20:17,300
And I got nothing but respect
and love for that man and his

2200
02:20:17,300 --> 02:20:20,700
family.
Yeah, and I do see a time.

2201
02:20:20,900 --> 02:20:23,900
So in the temple of New
Jerusalem, we know that there

2202
02:20:23,900 --> 02:20:29,300
are 12 temples of Aaron ironic
priesthood and 12 old temples of

2203
02:20:29,300 --> 02:20:33,800
Melchizedek priesthood.
And Joseph, I mean, he talked a

2204
02:20:33,800 --> 02:20:36,900
little bit about some of the
aaronic priesthood, but a lot of

2205
02:20:36,900 --> 02:20:41,800
it was was not ever fully
developed and so whatever that,

2206
02:20:42,300 --> 02:20:46,100
you know, in its full form,
turns out to be, I see people

2207
02:20:46,100 --> 02:20:50,500
like that, you know, Joshua, the
zarahemla Station and any others

2208
02:20:50,500 --> 02:20:53,800
who have a testimony of Christ
in the restoration, but who feel

2209
02:20:53,800 --> 02:20:56,800
a calling her an affinity
towards those Hebrew feasts and

2210
02:20:56,800 --> 02:20:59,500
festivals.
I believe that they will be

2211
02:20:59,500 --> 02:21:03,800
instrumental in administering in
those ironic temples Sherman

2212
02:21:03,800 --> 02:21:06,300
and, and talks about being
pillar in the temple.

2213
02:21:06,300 --> 02:21:11,200
And then loud, asea the seventh
church.

2214
02:21:11,200 --> 02:21:17,300
This one?
Just because of the temporal

2215
02:21:17,300 --> 02:21:24,700
wealth, I tend to identify with
like the Kingston's just because

2216
02:21:24,700 --> 02:21:28,100
I know they're very, you know,
temporally speaking very

2217
02:21:28,100 --> 02:21:31,100
wealthy.
And again, I don't know if

2218
02:21:31,100 --> 02:21:33,300
there's anybody in the
Kingston's that's listening to

2219
02:21:33,300 --> 02:21:35,700
this.
This is not personal and I'm not

2220
02:21:35,700 --> 02:21:38,700
speaking critically or I'm not
accusing, you of being lukewarm

2221
02:21:38,700 --> 02:21:41,900
or anything along those lines.
But I think that there are

2222
02:21:42,000 --> 02:21:46,100
certain challenges that are
unique, when you have great

2223
02:21:46,100 --> 02:21:48,500
temper, wealth, you're going to
have a different set.

2224
02:21:48,700 --> 02:21:52,100
Out of Temptations and
propensities and things to watch

2225
02:21:52,100 --> 02:21:59,900
out for then the less cursed
like, like I am, right?

2226
02:22:00,000 --> 02:22:04,400
And and so just, you know, take
it for what it's worth and and

2227
02:22:04,400 --> 02:22:10,100
it's an invitation.
If there's one thing I can share

2228
02:22:10,300 --> 02:22:12,200
your, I guess.
Any other thoughts, any other

2229
02:22:12,300 --> 02:22:14,800
names you want to ask that?
Yes, oh yeah.

2230
02:22:14,800 --> 02:22:18,200
I want to say this.
And then I'll, I'll turn it over

2231
02:22:18,400 --> 02:22:20,000
to you.
You to wrap this up here.

2232
02:22:20,700 --> 02:22:25,900
This is one of the few places in
scripture where the Lord doesn't

2233
02:22:25,900 --> 02:22:31,900
seem to be saying, One way or
another is going to come out,

2234
02:22:31,900 --> 02:22:36,700
right.
There's a lot of ifs in these in

2235
02:22:36,700 --> 02:22:41,000
in in a conditionals.
Yeah, a lot of conditionals, so

2236
02:22:42,500 --> 02:22:44,800
This idea of well it's all set
in stone.

2237
02:22:44,800 --> 02:22:47,500
There's nothing we can do.
There's certainly prophecies

2238
02:22:47,500 --> 02:22:51,200
that are that way.
I don't think this is one of

2239
02:22:51,200 --> 02:22:53,800
them, right?
As I read through this prepping

2240
02:22:53,800 --> 02:22:57,500
for it, I just kept focusing on
the word.

2241
02:22:57,500 --> 02:23:03,300
F that came up a lot throughout
two and three and even if it's

2242
02:23:03,300 --> 02:23:06,800
not written it's very implicit
to him that overcometh.

2243
02:23:07,000 --> 02:23:09,900
That's a conditional, right?
Right.

2244
02:23:09,900 --> 02:23:13,100
And so so that's that's That's
the one thing I would say this

2245
02:23:13,100 --> 02:23:17,400
is by no means, nobody should
walk away from this saying, oh

2246
02:23:17,600 --> 02:23:20,200
crap, the place I go to church,
has condemned.

2247
02:23:20,200 --> 02:23:23,100
That's not what we're saying,
whatever.

2248
02:23:24,100 --> 02:23:27,800
The other thing is, I want to be
very clear that this is not a

2249
02:23:27,800 --> 02:23:31,700
call to repentance.
Maybe you could use these as,

2250
02:23:32,000 --> 02:23:34,500
you know, something to reflect
on, right?

2251
02:23:34,500 --> 02:23:37,800
Only you can decide if there's
something there that, that, that

2252
02:23:37,800 --> 02:23:41,200
needs to be repented of
certainly I have my list and it

2253
02:23:41,200 --> 02:23:43,900
is Long.
And it is arduous, and I

2254
02:23:43,900 --> 02:23:47,000
struggle with it every day.
I think that's the price of

2255
02:23:47,000 --> 02:23:49,500
discipleship.
We shouldn't shun that we should

2256
02:23:49,500 --> 02:23:52,800
welcome that to a certain extent
that that invitation for

2257
02:23:52,800 --> 02:23:56,100
personal growth.
And lastly, I just like to say

2258
02:23:56,100 --> 02:24:00,500
I've met people from every one
of these groups, certainly it.

2259
02:24:00,900 --> 02:24:05,200
And if it's not okay I will I'll
edit it out but like you were

2260
02:24:05,200 --> 02:24:09,300
talking we're two guys who who
belong to different groups,

2261
02:24:09,300 --> 02:24:11,400
right?
I am a member of the branch.

2262
02:24:11,500 --> 02:24:14,900
Or the Petersons, you, you
attend with the Nielsen nailers?

2263
02:24:14,900 --> 02:24:18,900
Right?
So we, you know, I feel like, I

2264
02:24:18,900 --> 02:24:21,500
feel like your theory is very
just, right?

2265
02:24:21,500 --> 02:24:24,600
You're not singling one person
out or one group out over

2266
02:24:24,600 --> 02:24:29,100
another.
But I've met many, many people

2267
02:24:29,100 --> 02:24:31,500
from from all these different
groups.

2268
02:24:31,500 --> 02:24:33,400
I love each and every one of the
folks.

2269
02:24:33,400 --> 02:24:36,700
I've met their great people, so
please don't take this as us

2270
02:24:37,100 --> 02:24:38,700
again.
Crapping on where you go to

2271
02:24:38,700 --> 02:24:40,400
church, because that's not what
we're doing.

2272
02:24:42,000 --> 02:24:47,000
We're not bashing on anyone.
We're bashing on wickedness and,

2273
02:24:47,200 --> 02:24:51,500
you know, treating lightly that
they were, we hope that this can

2274
02:24:51,500 --> 02:24:55,600
be a good reminder of the
importance of holding fast.

2275
02:24:55,600 --> 02:24:58,300
Like that's another recurring
theme, that's in most of these

2276
02:24:58,300 --> 02:25:01,800
branches is hold fast.
What you have received?

2277
02:25:01,800 --> 02:25:06,500
Don't let people deceive you or
don't let people bully you into

2278
02:25:06,500 --> 02:25:10,000
letting go of the trews in the
gifts that God has given you.

2279
02:25:10,800 --> 02:25:14,400
Come that adversity and the
promises are very beautiful.

2280
02:25:16,000 --> 02:25:21,500
I guess one other thing is You
know, in the church.

2281
02:25:22,700 --> 02:25:27,100
I felt like I had to stay in the
church because I had this you

2282
02:25:27,100 --> 02:25:29,200
know the blinders that that's
the only place that was

2283
02:25:29,200 --> 02:25:35,100
legitimate and as I overcame
that I started to think well

2284
02:25:35,100 --> 02:25:36,600
maybe the church is
insufficient.

2285
02:25:36,600 --> 02:25:39,900
Maybe I haven't gotten my full
priesthood ordinances and so,

2286
02:25:40,400 --> 02:25:44,100
you know, I think part of why
God led me to not join any of

2287
02:25:44,100 --> 02:25:46,900
the other groups is because at
the time, I had this perspective

2288
02:25:46,900 --> 02:25:49,200
of, well, what can I get out of
this group?

2289
02:25:49,200 --> 02:25:50,700
What can I get out of this other
group?

2290
02:25:50,700 --> 02:25:53,600
What can only look at it.
Wrong way, will either.

2291
02:25:54,500 --> 02:25:58,700
And so, like, I don't think that
I would just invite wherever you

2292
02:25:58,700 --> 02:26:00,500
are.
Don't be looking at it.

2293
02:26:00,500 --> 02:26:03,900
Like, well, what can I get out
of, you know, my membership in

2294
02:26:03,900 --> 02:26:07,300
this church, or this group, or
this branch of the restoration,

2295
02:26:07,700 --> 02:26:13,500
our perspective should be one of
priests and Kings, we should be

2296
02:26:13,500 --> 02:26:17,600
asking God.
What, how would you like me to

2297
02:26:17,600 --> 02:26:22,300
serve my fellow brothers in this
branch in this church in this?

2298
02:26:22,600 --> 02:26:25,700
And so if you're called to stay
in the LDS, mainstream Sardis

2299
02:26:25,700 --> 02:26:29,200
Church, it shouldn't you
shouldn't be lamenting.

2300
02:26:29,200 --> 02:26:31,800
Will my church is failing me
because that it is.

2301
02:26:31,900 --> 02:26:33,900
It could I understand the
feeling?

2302
02:26:33,900 --> 02:26:37,000
I can have great empathy, my
church is failing me, they've

2303
02:26:37,000 --> 02:26:41,000
betrayed me, those are real
feelings and but Christ can heal

2304
02:26:41,000 --> 02:26:43,300
them.
What you what I think is a far

2305
02:26:43,300 --> 02:26:47,500
more productive way to expend
energy and focus is to is to

2306
02:26:47,500 --> 02:26:50,900
seek.
And and ask God, how do you want

2307
02:26:50,900 --> 02:26:56,600
me to serve Your church and the
people, and it's all personal,

2308
02:26:56,900 --> 02:26:58,800
you know, you don't really serve
the institution.

2309
02:26:59,200 --> 02:27:02,500
How do you want me to serve my
fellow brother, or sister that I

2310
02:27:02,508 --> 02:27:06,000
go to church with on Sunday?
That is how we should approach

2311
02:27:06,000 --> 02:27:09,400
our discipleship.
As members of the restoration,

2312
02:27:09,400 --> 02:27:14,100
we are all great beneficiaries
of the restoration and but

2313
02:27:14,100 --> 02:27:18,700
there's so much that needs to be
done and we are the instruments.

2314
02:27:18,700 --> 02:27:21,900
We can be, we have been called
and invited to be God's

2315
02:27:21,900 --> 02:27:23,700
instrument.
Ants in preparing the world for

2316
02:27:23,700 --> 02:27:28,100
his coming.
Absolutely and here's the thing.

2317
02:27:28,100 --> 02:27:33,500
If you're looking to get
something out of whatever Branch

2318
02:27:33,500 --> 02:27:38,200
you're in, just serve just sir
serve somebody else.

2319
02:27:38,200 --> 02:27:44,300
That's the strangest.
Yet most beautiful part of of

2320
02:27:44,300 --> 02:27:47,200
Christ's message.
You know, is that that part

2321
02:27:47,200 --> 02:27:49,700
where?
He says, if you lose your life

2322
02:27:49,700 --> 02:27:52,900
you'll find it.
Yeah, right.

2323
02:27:53,100 --> 02:27:59,100
Just just serve.
If you just serve you will find

2324
02:27:59,700 --> 02:28:01,100
what it is.
You're looking for.

2325
02:28:02,200 --> 02:28:06,200
If you're looking just to be
served, well, you're I don't see

2326
02:28:06,200 --> 02:28:12,800
being served necessarily as one
of the tenants of Christ

2327
02:28:12,800 --> 02:28:18,700
conditions, right?
We were called as servants to to

2328
02:28:18,700 --> 02:28:22,400
our fellow man and certainly our
Brothers and Sisters in Christ

2329
02:28:22,700 --> 02:28:25,700
and within the restoration.
So I think we got it all starts

2330
02:28:25,700 --> 02:28:31,100
with with that attitude of who
is it that I serve and and how

2331
02:28:31,100 --> 02:28:34,400
can can I I be of the most
benefit in building up the

2332
02:28:34,408 --> 02:28:38,800
kingdom of God.
And I think service sometimes at

2333
02:28:38,800 --> 02:28:41,900
least in my baggage I think
service means you go do service

2334
02:28:41,900 --> 02:28:45,400
projects like you're raking old
ladies yards and in and it's

2335
02:28:45,400 --> 02:28:49,000
like actions and or money or you
know, gifts or whatever.

2336
02:28:49,400 --> 02:28:52,200
And, and those are very
wonderful.

2337
02:28:52,200 --> 02:28:55,200
I'm not taking anything away
from that, but I would also

2338
02:28:55,200 --> 02:28:59,200
invite you to consider expand
that service to Simply being

2339
02:28:59,200 --> 02:29:03,900
kind to reaching out to
expressing appreciation.

2340
02:29:03,900 --> 02:29:08,000
For one another to being loving
and It starts in your own home

2341
02:29:08,000 --> 02:29:11,300
and family relationships, how
can you be a greater service to

2342
02:29:11,300 --> 02:29:13,100
your wife?
Well, yeah, you could probably

2343
02:29:13,100 --> 02:29:16,100
do more dishes and that's never
going to be a bad idea.

2344
02:29:16,500 --> 02:29:22,700
But are you treating her as the
daughter of God that she is?

2345
02:29:22,700 --> 02:29:26,200
Are you treating her?
How you would want your

2346
02:29:26,300 --> 02:29:29,600
son-in-law to treat your
daughter like and like just

2347
02:29:29,600 --> 02:29:31,400
putting those types of things
into perspective.

2348
02:29:31,400 --> 02:29:34,800
We sometimes take those
relationships for granted and

2349
02:29:34,800 --> 02:29:36,600
just kindness building those
relationships.

2350
02:29:36,700 --> 02:29:39,400
And ships during testimony.
I think that's another really

2351
02:29:39,400 --> 02:29:41,400
underrated way that we can serve
one.

2352
02:29:41,400 --> 02:29:46,400
Another is to well, I guess,
first off obtain a testimony and

2353
02:29:46,400 --> 02:29:50,300
then share it and bear it and
remind each other, and we can

2354
02:29:50,300 --> 02:29:54,900
strengthen our faith through
those sharing of experiences and

2355
02:29:54,900 --> 02:30:01,000
our daily walk of discipleship.
I have one last thing, it's a

2356
02:30:01,000 --> 02:30:06,300
vision and you know this is
something that I'd like to share

2357
02:30:07,100 --> 02:30:10,400
that.
I think really ties this

2358
02:30:10,800 --> 02:30:13,500
principle of the unity of the
restoration.

2359
02:30:13,500 --> 02:30:16,200
We're all even if we're in
different branches or churches

2360
02:30:16,200 --> 02:30:20,600
were part of Christchurch and we
all have a role to play in this

2361
02:30:20,600 --> 02:30:25,900
in these winding up scenes.
This, this was a vision that

2362
02:30:25,900 --> 02:30:32,600
occurred And of mine received,
brother-in-law, on July 12 2020,

2363
02:30:32,900 --> 02:30:38,100
and this goes back to the height
of the first covid summer.

2364
02:30:38,100 --> 02:30:42,100
So this is right after George,
Floyd had been killed and so

2365
02:30:42,100 --> 02:30:45,700
there's all those bli.
It's the last, those, those last

2366
02:30:45,700 --> 02:30:49,400
few weeks leading up to that, he
was killed at the end of May,

2367
02:30:49,400 --> 02:30:53,300
and this was mid-july.
And then covid was about four or

2368
02:30:53,308 --> 02:30:57,800
five months into that pandemic.
So, just a lot of uncertainty in

2369
02:30:57,808 --> 02:31:01,000
the The world.
And so, he wrote this out, I'd

2370
02:31:01,000 --> 02:31:04,700
like to just read his words.
He says, I was a passenger on a

2371
02:31:04,708 --> 02:31:08,500
long drive through the back,
highways of Southern Idaho and I

2372
02:31:08,500 --> 02:31:11,400
dozed off while pondering these
troubling events of the world.

2373
02:31:11,700 --> 02:31:14,100
While asleep.
I had a kind of dark and

2374
02:31:14,100 --> 02:31:16,700
disturbing dream.
And I suddenly awoke with a

2375
02:31:16,708 --> 02:31:20,100
question foremost on my mind,
what is going to happen to this

2376
02:31:20,100 --> 02:31:24,000
country with all the riots God,
is there gonna be a civil war,

2377
02:31:24,000 --> 02:31:26,200
what's going on?
And in answer to the question,

2378
02:31:26,400 --> 02:31:30,400
he looked out the window and
There's a road sign and it said

2379
02:31:30,400 --> 02:31:34,800
America Falls.
Now, we actually knew this was a

2380
02:31:34,808 --> 02:31:37,800
sign for a town.
Like, you know, this is where

2381
02:31:37,800 --> 02:31:41,500
you turn to go to American Falls
Idaho, but he read it, coming

2382
02:31:41,500 --> 02:31:43,800
out of that dream.
With that question on his mind,

2383
02:31:43,900 --> 02:31:49,100
America Falls and he took that
as a sign from God, that this is

2384
02:31:50,700 --> 02:31:52,600
an answer to his question.
What's going to happen to the

2385
02:31:52,600 --> 02:31:53,700
country?
It's going to fall.

2386
02:31:54,000 --> 02:31:59,000
I told my companion whose
driving I've seen, In a sign, we

2387
02:31:59,000 --> 02:32:01,300
began to discuss the troubling
core tenants at one point.

2388
02:32:01,300 --> 02:32:03,100
He brought up a counter
argument.

2389
02:32:03,100 --> 02:32:04,500
What about the White Horse
prophecy?

2390
02:32:04,500 --> 02:32:06,800
Be, doesn't it say that the
constitution will hang by a

2391
02:32:06,808 --> 02:32:08,500
thread?
But ultimately will be saved by

2392
02:32:08,500 --> 02:32:13,000
the church or the elders neither
of us had read that Revelation

2393
02:32:13,000 --> 02:32:15,300
in some time.
So, I pulled it up and began to

2394
02:32:15,300 --> 02:32:17,500
study it.
Much of it did seem inspired but

2395
02:32:17,500 --> 02:32:19,600
I also felt something was off.
It seemed to me.

2396
02:32:19,600 --> 02:32:22,300
That either the Revelation had
been misremembered or was

2397
02:32:22,300 --> 02:32:25,300
incomplete or maybe even was
just being misinterpreted.

2398
02:32:25,300 --> 02:32:27,800
Then for the first time in my
life I received a prompting out.

2399
02:32:28,000 --> 02:32:31,200
Was to prepare myself to receive
a vision in clarification,

2400
02:32:32,200 --> 02:32:34,800
unsure of what to do.
I told my companion, I was going

2401
02:32:34,800 --> 02:32:36,500
to be meditating and praying for
a while.

2402
02:32:36,800 --> 02:32:40,000
I proceeded to close my eyes and
began focusing on an image of a

2403
02:32:40,000 --> 02:32:43,500
white horse, after what seemed
like a few minutes of constant,

2404
02:32:43,500 --> 02:32:46,700
raishin and nothing, but my own
imagined image of a white horse.

2405
02:32:47,300 --> 02:32:50,900
The vision suddenly opened.
Instead of a horse, I beheld, a

2406
02:32:50,908 --> 02:32:55,100
large tree in an open Mountain
Meadow, as I looked a sudden

2407
02:32:55,100 --> 02:32:57,800
bolt of lightning struck the
tree blasting.

2408
02:32:57,900 --> 02:33:01,300
An entire branch of it off of
it, onto the ground.

2409
02:33:01,700 --> 02:33:04,800
I looked at the Fallen branch
and saw it rapidly die, and

2410
02:33:04,800 --> 02:33:08,100
Decay back into the Earth, it no
longer being connected to the

2411
02:33:08,100 --> 02:33:11,100
large tree.
In its Deep Roots, I looked back

2412
02:33:11,100 --> 02:33:14,800
up to the tree and in dismay I
saw begin to wilt and die.

2413
02:33:15,600 --> 02:33:18,300
Starting at the uppermost
branches and slowly working

2414
02:33:18,300 --> 02:33:20,200
down.
The leaves began to turn brown

2415
02:33:20,200 --> 02:33:23,300
and fall away, leaving nothing
but Baron dead branches pointing

2416
02:33:23,300 --> 02:33:26,800
into the sky.
I was given an understanding

2417
02:33:26,800 --> 02:33:28,700
that the wound that had blasted
off.

2418
02:33:28,700 --> 02:33:32,800
The branch would ultimately be
fatal and the tree was lost as

2419
02:33:32,800 --> 02:33:34,600
the final branches withered and
died.

2420
02:33:34,700 --> 02:33:37,200
I cried out in despair.
This can't be How It Ends I

2421
02:33:37,200 --> 02:33:39,700
called out.
I looked back to where the

2422
02:33:39,700 --> 02:33:43,100
broken Branch had fallen and in
astonishment, I saw less than a

2423
02:33:43,100 --> 02:33:45,200
dozen different species of
flowers.

2424
02:33:45,200 --> 02:33:49,100
Sprout up out from the ground.
I understood that the branch had

2425
02:33:49,100 --> 02:33:50,800
carried these seeds away with
it.

2426
02:33:51,700 --> 02:33:54,400
And while the branch didn't
survive, it preserves.

2427
02:33:54,400 --> 02:33:58,100
See Deeds that only now began to
bloom and Blossom.

2428
02:33:58,100 --> 02:34:00,100
Now that the original tree was
nothing more than a lifeless

2429
02:34:00,100 --> 02:34:03,300
stick in the ground.
I wondered at how a Tree's seeds

2430
02:34:03,300 --> 02:34:06,200
could bring forth flowers.
But as the flowers grew, they

2431
02:34:06,200 --> 02:34:08,200
came together and formed a new
sap link.

2432
02:34:08,700 --> 02:34:11,400
Thus the liberty and freedom of
God's children would be

2433
02:34:11,400 --> 02:34:13,500
preserved.
I awoke from the vision which

2434
02:34:13,500 --> 02:34:15,800
seemed to take place in a matter
of seconds to find.

2435
02:34:15,800 --> 02:34:19,300
I had been out for hours.
I am convinced that this is a

2436
02:34:19,300 --> 02:34:21,000
true Vision, but I don't claim
exclusive.

2437
02:34:21,100 --> 02:34:23,900
For complete knowledge of its
interpretation, as I have prayed

2438
02:34:23,900 --> 02:34:25,600
and pondered it.
I believe the tree to represent

2439
02:34:25,600 --> 02:34:29,600
the restored Church of Christ.
The lightning bolt symbolized,

2440
02:34:29,600 --> 02:34:32,300
the abandonment of the doctrines
of the little get literal

2441
02:34:32,300 --> 02:34:34,700
Gathering of Israel.
The application of covenants

2442
02:34:34,700 --> 02:34:37,200
like the United order and the
administration of sacred

2443
02:34:37,200 --> 02:34:38,700
ordinances such as Celestial
marriage.

2444
02:34:38,700 --> 02:34:41,700
Without these things.
The tree or the church was

2445
02:34:41,700 --> 02:34:45,100
doomed to die a slow death and
thus, be unable to fulfill its

2446
02:34:45,100 --> 02:34:48,300
intended role in preserving.
The Constitution, the branch

2447
02:34:48,300 --> 02:34:51,500
that broke off carried these
doctrines, or There's another

2448
02:34:51,500 --> 02:34:54,500
things away, but failed to
establish a new tree or church

2449
02:34:54,500 --> 02:34:57,300
at that time.
Ultimately, I believe the vision

2450
02:34:57,300 --> 02:35:00,200
answers, the question of how the
freedom of and Liberty of God's

2451
02:35:00,200 --> 02:35:03,000
children would be preserved,
despite the death of Christ

2452
02:35:03,000 --> 02:35:05,100
Church, in the coming,
destruction of America, as a

2453
02:35:05,100 --> 02:35:08,600
government and Nation the
flowers, symbolize the various

2454
02:35:08,600 --> 02:35:11,200
fragments and remnants of the
fundamentalist break off groups,

2455
02:35:11,200 --> 02:35:13,900
that will ultimately preserve
the principles of the

2456
02:35:13,900 --> 02:35:16,800
Constitution among many other
things as they come together in

2457
02:35:16,800 --> 02:35:19,300
a new location to the East and
re-establish.

2458
02:35:19,300 --> 02:35:22,200
The living and restored church
and a Additional government in

2459
02:35:22,200 --> 02:35:24,000
the form of Zion the New
Jerusalem.

2460
02:35:24,900 --> 02:35:31,800
How so yeah, I think that the
timing is really interesting

2461
02:35:31,800 --> 02:35:35,800
because many of these
fundamentalist branches Haven't

2462
02:35:35,800 --> 02:35:40,400
really been doing so hot
themselves but we like you've

2463
02:35:40,400 --> 02:35:41,900
observed.
You've seen it.

2464
02:35:41,900 --> 02:35:44,800
I've seen it just in these last
few years, there has been a

2465
02:35:44,800 --> 02:35:50,100
Resurgence of inspire in a
inspired leadership, Revelation

2466
02:35:50,500 --> 02:35:56,400
and renewed, resolve, and
commitment, and excitement to

2467
02:35:57,100 --> 02:36:00,700
build up, Zion and prepare for
that in the future.

2468
02:36:01,100 --> 02:36:02,500
And it's not just in your
branch.

2469
02:36:02,500 --> 02:36:05,400
It's not just in my Branch.
It's not just in anyone. and

2470
02:36:05,400 --> 02:36:08,700
it's like you know most if not
all of these fundamentalist

2471
02:36:08,700 --> 02:36:12,600
branches and even within the
church, The Remnant those few

2472
02:36:12,600 --> 02:36:15,200
that have you know that are
remaining in the church that are

2473
02:36:15,400 --> 02:36:20,100
awake and alert and are seeing
these problems and and you know

2474
02:36:21,000 --> 02:36:26,400
holding the line as best they
can in a dying Branch like this

2475
02:36:26,400 --> 02:36:31,400
is a time where there's far more
communication and mutual respect

2476
02:36:31,400 --> 02:36:35,700
and collaborative Brotherhood
then I think has ever Ever been

2477
02:36:36,100 --> 02:36:40,500
in the history of Mormonism.
We very much stayed in our silos

2478
02:36:40,500 --> 02:36:43,800
and forced everybody.
Just keep away.

2479
02:36:44,800 --> 02:36:49,700
You know, no, no contact zones
and those days have passed.

2480
02:36:49,800 --> 02:36:52,700
I'm excited for the future.
I think there are dark times

2481
02:36:52,700 --> 02:36:56,100
ahead, but the light of the
Gospel cannot be a sting

2482
02:36:56,100 --> 02:37:00,300
extinguished because again, no
unhallowed hand can stop God's

2483
02:37:00,300 --> 02:37:02,500
work from progressing
persecutions.

2484
02:37:02,500 --> 02:37:05,000
May rage mobs?
May combine a cow.

2485
02:37:05,200 --> 02:37:10,000
On the May defame.
Armies May assemble I'm out of

2486
02:37:10,000 --> 02:37:13,700
order but you know but the truth
of God will go forth boldly

2487
02:37:13,700 --> 02:37:17,300
nobly and independent.
And until the great Jehovah

2488
02:37:17,300 --> 02:37:22,400
shall say, the work is done.
This is we're on the cusp of a

2489
02:37:22,400 --> 02:37:26,300
greater outpouring of spiritual
power than has been seen since

2490
02:37:26,300 --> 02:37:29,100
the very beginning of the
restoration, not just in a

2491
02:37:29,100 --> 02:37:33,400
private individuals lives, but
in large group settings because

2492
02:37:33,400 --> 02:37:36,400
without that we wouldn't be
surviving. diving, the darkness

2493
02:37:36,400 --> 02:37:41,000
that is utter doorsteps and I
think that despite the darkness

2494
02:37:41,000 --> 02:37:44,600
and the tribulations and all of
these sacrifices that were going

2495
02:37:44,600 --> 02:37:49,000
to make which could feel
overwhelming at times the the

2496
02:37:49,200 --> 02:37:53,700
brightness of Truth and hope has
never been brighter and we can

2497
02:37:53,700 --> 02:37:57,800
take great comfort in knowing
that God is at the helm, he is

2498
02:37:57,800 --> 02:38:01,900
directing the Affairs of men on
the earth and women and and we

2499
02:38:01,900 --> 02:38:06,800
have an opportunity to rather
than letting Divisions separate

2500
02:38:06,800 --> 02:38:12,900
us, you know, one last little
quote, there is a quote, I was

2501
02:38:12,900 --> 02:38:15,900
reading in the south on a
marquee.

2502
02:38:15,900 --> 02:38:20,700
Have a Baptist Church about 12
years ago, 13 years ago, it said

2503
02:38:20,700 --> 02:38:24,100
it's better to be divided by
truth than to be United in error

2504
02:38:25,000 --> 02:38:27,500
and I believe that is a true
statement.

2505
02:38:27,600 --> 02:38:29,800
I think it is better to be
divided by truth and to be

2506
02:38:29,800 --> 02:38:33,900
United in error and but that in
a nutshell is formed as Mormon

2507
02:38:33,900 --> 02:38:37,300
fundamentalism.
If we don't like what what this

2508
02:38:37,300 --> 02:38:39,800
leader saying, we just break off
if we don't like, what this

2509
02:38:39,800 --> 02:38:42,000
church is doing.
We just break out like Mormonism

2510
02:38:42,000 --> 02:38:45,500
has fragmented.
So many times there are almost

2511
02:38:45,500 --> 02:38:48,300
unkempt too many to count
various factions.

2512
02:38:48,400 --> 02:38:51,600
And many of them could just be a
single family, like a single

2513
02:38:51,600 --> 02:38:54,600
household.
We have, we have divided

2514
02:38:54,600 --> 02:39:01,300
ourselves over the truth, and I
think that the time has come to

2515
02:39:01,400 --> 02:39:06,100
rewrite that statement, Rather
than focus on the, you know,

2516
02:39:06,200 --> 02:39:08,700
being divided by truth then
United an error.

2517
02:39:08,900 --> 02:39:14,000
I think the time has come to it
is better to be United in truth

2518
02:39:14,100 --> 02:39:19,000
than to be / error.
And all of us have our errors.

2519
02:39:19,300 --> 02:39:23,400
All of us have our personal and
Collective issues that we can do

2520
02:39:23,400 --> 02:39:27,100
better and and work through and
be healed from through the

2521
02:39:27,100 --> 02:39:30,200
atonement.
The time has come to put aside

2522
02:39:30,200 --> 02:39:35,100
those differences and unite in
the core. foundational truths of

2523
02:39:35,108 --> 02:39:43,100
the restoration and You know, if
not then we probably won't be

2524
02:39:43,100 --> 02:39:47,000
involved with Zion, we might not
even survive the darkness that's

2525
02:39:47,000 --> 02:39:50,000
coming in.
I think that we do need to focus

2526
02:39:50,300 --> 02:39:54,600
bring that focus more on uniting
in truth rather than being

2527
02:39:54,600 --> 02:39:56,900
divided by truth.
Yeah.

2528
02:39:56,900 --> 02:40:03,100
And you can unite on truth and
still hold and because this has

2529
02:40:03,100 --> 02:40:06,100
been the tricky thing, right?
And and oddly enough, it's been

2530
02:40:06,100 --> 02:40:09,900
the tricky thing for America as
a whole So is this how do you

2531
02:40:09,900 --> 02:40:13,600
keep your in this case religious
identity?

2532
02:40:14,900 --> 02:40:21,200
And at the same time, reach out
to other groups and other folks.

2533
02:40:21,200 --> 02:40:27,900
So that you can build You can
build those relationships that

2534
02:40:27,900 --> 02:40:30,600
only strengthened look, one of
the ways.

2535
02:40:31,800 --> 02:40:37,300
Fascism was so effective in
Germany under under the Nazi.

2536
02:40:37,300 --> 02:40:43,900
Socialist Party was They just
singled out one group at a time.

2537
02:40:45,300 --> 02:40:48,500
And everyone said it.
Well my group they were coming

2538
02:40:48,500 --> 02:40:52,200
after those folks first and then
pretty soon I can't remember who

2539
02:40:52,200 --> 02:40:55,100
wrote the poem but pretty soon.
You looked around and there's no

2540
02:40:55,100 --> 02:40:58,300
one else to stand behind you
because you allowed everybody

2541
02:40:58,300 --> 02:41:04,800
else to get cannibalized first.
And so again we're not saying

2542
02:41:04,800 --> 02:41:08,900
stop going to where you're going
or you know we all need to come

2543
02:41:08,900 --> 02:41:12,200
together to form one giant
church right now we're just

2544
02:41:12,200 --> 02:41:18,100
saying worked together, where we
can that's that to me has been

2545
02:41:19,600 --> 02:41:22,900
Ben the overarching theme, it's
just work together on stuff

2546
02:41:22,900 --> 02:41:25,400
where you can don't be afraid to
reach out.

2547
02:41:25,500 --> 02:41:29,700
Don't be afraid to to help your
neighbor, you know, your

2548
02:41:29,700 --> 02:41:32,800
brother, whether he's in the
Nielsen nailers or he's out in

2549
02:41:32,808 --> 02:41:37,200
Missouri or in the LDS church,
whatever the case is.

2550
02:41:38,200 --> 02:41:42,600
Just serve, just serve and and
the rest will take care of

2551
02:41:42,600 --> 02:41:46,400
itself.
Well in the amazing thing is you

2552
02:41:46,400 --> 02:41:50,100
know you may have stereotypes
because you don't know.

2553
02:41:51,100 --> 02:41:58,400
I from personal experience.
I have learned to love and build

2554
02:41:58,400 --> 02:42:03,200
these amazing french tips and
and respect I have learned to

2555
02:42:03,200 --> 02:42:08,300
respect many friends in all of
these various branches and

2556
02:42:08,400 --> 02:42:11,400
they're way less weird and scary
than you might have thought

2557
02:42:11,400 --> 02:42:15,800
before you got to know him and
so we So much more in common

2558
02:42:16,200 --> 02:42:19,200
than we have.
That is different.

2559
02:42:19,500 --> 02:42:22,700
I mean, if you look at the
that's just the world.

2560
02:42:23,700 --> 02:42:27,900
What fraction of a percentage
even is aware of the fullness of

2561
02:42:27,908 --> 02:42:31,100
the gospel and and the, you
know, the early teachings of

2562
02:42:31,100 --> 02:42:33,300
Joseph Smith.
It's a very, very small

2563
02:42:33,600 --> 02:42:38,200
percentage and yet we get so
upset with one another because

2564
02:42:38,200 --> 02:42:42,800
we take this for that private
interpretation and and you know

2565
02:42:42,800 --> 02:42:46,100
that may have been fine.
In our grandparents time, but I

2566
02:42:46,100 --> 02:42:51,200
think we have a common foe, the
whore sitting on many Waters

2567
02:42:51,400 --> 02:42:54,900
Gathering her armies to come out
an open war against Christ in

2568
02:42:54,900 --> 02:42:59,900
the Church of the lamb.
And so the time has come to put

2569
02:42:59,900 --> 02:43:06,900
aside the the Preferences, the
differences of opinion and unite

2570
02:43:06,900 --> 02:43:11,400
on the principles and and we all
have a testimony of Christ.

2571
02:43:11,700 --> 02:43:16,400
And the Prophet Joseph Smith and
his teachings, the doctrines and

2572
02:43:16,400 --> 02:43:20,400
ordinances of the restoration.
Let's focus on what we have in

2573
02:43:20,400 --> 02:43:24,900
common and build a build
friendships respect and get rid

2574
02:43:24,900 --> 02:43:28,800
of these false Traditions.
You know, I'll I'll say one last

2575
02:43:28,800 --> 02:43:35,500
thing I'm sorry I keep saying
that but So in full disclosure

2576
02:43:36,100 --> 02:43:40,400
back in gosh, what was it March
when I had the barbecue at my

2577
02:43:40,400 --> 02:43:43,800
place?
Yeah, March or April Marjorie.

2578
02:43:44,300 --> 02:43:48,300
I had a big barbecue at my place
and I had vited a bunch of

2579
02:43:48,300 --> 02:43:51,600
people from from the church.
I go to I invited a bunch of

2580
02:43:51,600 --> 02:43:55,900
people from the podcast.
I mean Joshua Erickson was

2581
02:43:55,900 --> 02:44:00,400
there.
Jacob the dream Taylor, myself

2582
02:44:00,400 --> 02:44:03,700
some folks I'd actually never
met which was cool that got

2583
02:44:03,700 --> 02:44:11,800
invited through friends. and the
interesting thing was and I

2584
02:44:11,800 --> 02:44:14,700
remember at one point I just
kind of was looking as everyone

2585
02:44:14,700 --> 02:44:19,700
was eating and talking, and I
was like, Maybe I'm wrong, but

2586
02:44:19,700 --> 02:44:22,000
I'm not sure this would have
happened 20 years ago.

2587
02:44:23,600 --> 02:44:27,000
Right?
Maybe I'm wrong, but from from

2588
02:44:27,000 --> 02:44:30,300
everything, I've heard it was
very fragmented.

2589
02:44:30,400 --> 02:44:34,000
It was very, I got my thing and
I'm going to stay right here.

2590
02:44:34,000 --> 02:44:37,000
You got your thing, you stay
over there and that's how it

2591
02:44:37,000 --> 02:44:39,400
wasn't.
So, what's that?

2592
02:44:39,900 --> 02:44:41,800
And keep your distance, and keep
your distance.

2593
02:44:41,800 --> 02:44:44,500
Right.
And, and what I find interesting

2594
02:44:44,500 --> 02:44:47,700
now is some of that seems to be
dying off.

2595
02:44:48,100 --> 02:44:51,900
And, and I'm so encouraged by
that because we can keep our

2596
02:44:51,900 --> 02:44:57,500
differences and still be It, I
think our strength isn't just in

2597
02:44:57,500 --> 02:45:01,700
unity but it's in our
differences and and we need to

2598
02:45:01,708 --> 02:45:05,900
hold on to those as well.
But I agree with you.

2599
02:45:05,900 --> 02:45:11,600
I don't think I've been been as
encouraged as I have been since

2600
02:45:11,600 --> 02:45:15,400
I started doing this podcast and
look, I'm not going to sit here

2601
02:45:15,400 --> 02:45:19,200
and blow Sunshine up your
backside.

2602
02:45:19,200 --> 02:45:23,400
But I will say this evil has a
way of overplaying.

2603
02:45:23,400 --> 02:45:28,900
Its hand every time and there
are going to be darker days than

2604
02:45:28,900 --> 02:45:32,400
this ahead.
But if there's one thing that

2605
02:45:32,408 --> 02:45:37,000
that God shows time and again in
the scriptures as he loves a

2606
02:45:37,008 --> 02:45:40,600
dramatic ending, he is the
master and author of the

2607
02:45:40,600 --> 02:45:44,100
dramatic ending, and it's going
to get dark, folks.

2608
02:45:44,100 --> 02:45:46,800
I'm not going to lie to you and
it's going to look like we lose

2609
02:45:47,600 --> 02:45:52,400
up to the very end.
And I think God will say to

2610
02:45:52,400 --> 02:45:54,900
those who've been trying to
follow him who have done their

2611
02:45:54,900 --> 02:45:58,300
best.
Now is the time to stand and

2612
02:45:58,300 --> 02:46:02,100
when we stand Evil will
understand it.

2613
02:46:02,100 --> 02:46:05,400
It's overplayed, his hand, just
keep doing what you're doing out

2614
02:46:05,400 --> 02:46:06,800
there, folks, you're doing
great.

2615
02:46:06,800 --> 02:46:09,400
I love you.
I know it sounds strange, but I

2616
02:46:09,408 --> 02:46:12,900
can feel you at times through
the podcast.

2617
02:46:13,400 --> 02:46:15,500
I'm always here.
I love you.

2618
02:46:16,000 --> 02:46:19,600
That's all I got anything else
Taylor?

2619
02:46:19,800 --> 02:46:21,600
No, amen.
And amen.

2620
02:46:21,900 --> 02:46:24,200
God bless.
All right, bye everybody.

2621
02:46:46,000 --> 02:46:48,800
You're listening to the Mormon
Renegade podcast.

2622
02:46:46,000 --> 02:46:48,800
You're listening to the Mormon
Renegade podcast.