Episode #72:Discernment, A Heavenly Gift For Navigating These Troubled Days We Are In & The Darker Days Ahead W/Michael Ness

1
00:00:05,100 --> 00:00:07,800
We are now living in the times
that have been spoken about in

2
00:00:07,800 --> 00:00:11,200
the scriptures where false
prophets and false christs, walk

3
00:00:11,200 --> 00:00:15,200
among us, it's going to become
increasingly important that we

4
00:00:15,200 --> 00:00:18,300
be able to have the tools
necessary to be able to

5
00:00:18,300 --> 00:00:20,900
recognize truth from error on
this episode.

6
00:00:20,900 --> 00:00:24,400
I have Michael Nest back on the
podcast to talk about a tool.

7
00:00:24,400 --> 00:00:26,900
The Lord has given us to help us
choose truth.

8
00:00:27,000 --> 00:00:30,100
Michael and I have a fascinating
conversation about what

9
00:00:30,100 --> 00:00:33,400
discernment is what you can do
to strengthen it.

10
00:00:33,600 --> 00:00:35,800
And How to use it in your
day-to-day life.

11
00:00:35,900 --> 00:00:39,600
And that's next on this episode
of the Mormon Renegade podcast

12
00:00:40,200 --> 00:00:43,500
because of your generosity last
year, I was able to buy better

13
00:00:43,500 --> 00:00:46,800
audio equipment and software.
I can't tell you how much it

14
00:00:46,800 --> 00:00:48,500
meant to me.
That not only did you spend your

15
00:00:48,500 --> 00:00:52,200
time here with me on the podcast
but also that you found enough

16
00:00:52,200 --> 00:00:54,000
value.
And what I'm doing that you

17
00:00:54,000 --> 00:00:57,900
donated the podcast upgraded
this year, I want to continue to

18
00:00:57,900 --> 00:01:00,300
grow.
Now I want to add video to the

19
00:01:00,300 --> 00:01:04,599
podcast, continue to help you my
guests and my Self connect

20
00:01:04,599 --> 00:01:06,700
better through the show.
The other feature.

21
00:01:06,700 --> 00:01:10,100
I'm working on for this podcast,
is something I have to remain

22
00:01:10,100 --> 00:01:13,500
vague about for now.
But what I can say is that it's

23
00:01:13,500 --> 00:01:17,200
something that will help us
better connect as fundamentalist

24
00:01:17,200 --> 00:01:20,700
and traditional LDS.
Folks, now to get that equipment

25
00:01:20,700 --> 00:01:23,300
for the video content, I want to
do and to build the

26
00:01:23,308 --> 00:01:26,400
infrastructure for the other
project with this podcast

27
00:01:26,400 --> 00:01:29,800
donations would certainly be
welcome or you can go to Mormon

28
00:01:29,800 --> 00:01:32,900
Renegade.com, click that supply
store button and get some new

29
00:01:32,900 --> 00:01:35,400
swag.
New stuff will be out soon as

30
00:01:35,400 --> 00:01:37,800
well.
Now if you can't afford to you

31
00:01:37,800 --> 00:01:40,800
either of those two things, I
totally get it.

32
00:01:40,800 --> 00:01:43,500
Maybe just keep the podcasting
your prayers, that will be

33
00:01:43,500 --> 00:01:47,100
blessed with those resources.
Again, thank you for everything

34
00:01:47,100 --> 00:01:49,600
you do as well as for listening
to the podcast.

35
00:02:12,800 --> 00:02:15,500
You're listening to the Mormon
Renegade podcast.

36
00:02:22,300 --> 00:02:23,800
Michael.
Welcome back, man.

37
00:02:24,600 --> 00:02:29,700
It's good to be back.
So dude, you're you're on the

38
00:02:29,700 --> 00:02:34,300
cusp of becoming a father now.
Oh, p.s.

39
00:02:34,300 --> 00:02:38,200
I am anytime now.
Nervous, I am.

40
00:02:38,200 --> 00:02:42,700
I was thinking, you know, the
first time has dawned on me in

41
00:02:42,700 --> 00:02:45,300
this manner today, even, you
know, I was driving with my wife

42
00:02:45,300 --> 00:02:49,600
and thinking about how this is
the first time I'm able to

43
00:02:49,608 --> 00:02:54,500
participate in helping.
Being a spirit child of my, my

44
00:02:54,500 --> 00:02:56,700
heavenly Father in heaven.
We mother come into this life to

45
00:02:56,900 --> 00:02:58,800
experience.
What I've experienced so far.

46
00:02:59,000 --> 00:03:01,300
That's the first time I've
thought about it that way, but

47
00:03:01,300 --> 00:03:08,000
it's I thought, you know, that
is exciting, you know, to now

48
00:03:08,000 --> 00:03:11,900
it's that time to help teach and
encourage, and, and bring

49
00:03:11,900 --> 00:03:13,700
someone up to lovely gospel,
like I do.

50
00:03:13,700 --> 00:03:18,300
And I know that that makes the
anxiety, you know, go away in a

51
00:03:18,308 --> 00:03:25,100
bit, you know, Dude, I hear you.
I remember, I remember when when

52
00:03:25,100 --> 00:03:30,400
my son had his first baby and I
always said, look, your first

53
00:03:30,400 --> 00:03:32,000
one.
I'll make sure I'm in the

54
00:03:32,008 --> 00:03:34,900
waiting room with you, right?
I'll make sure I'm right on

55
00:03:34,900 --> 00:03:40,800
there because I remember my old
man had passed and we had a

56
00:03:40,800 --> 00:03:43,600
rough rough.
Start with my oldest boy.

57
00:03:44,000 --> 00:03:47,100
And I just remember thinking,
man, I wish my dad was here, so

58
00:03:47,100 --> 00:03:49,000
I was like, I'm going to make
sure I'm here for your first

59
00:03:49,000 --> 00:03:50,300
one.
One, I'll be right in the

60
00:03:50,300 --> 00:03:54,700
waiting room and so my son, you
know, we get the call.

61
00:03:54,700 --> 00:03:59,100
It's about 2:00 in the morning.
Hey Waters broke, it's game on,

62
00:03:59,500 --> 00:04:02,000
right?
So I go up me and my wife we go

63
00:04:02,000 --> 00:04:05,500
up to the hospital and my son's
in the waiting room, he comes

64
00:04:05,500 --> 00:04:08,000
out to greet us and I'm like,
you know how things going.

65
00:04:08,000 --> 00:04:11,800
He's like it's it's gonna it's
coming and I was like, well, go

66
00:04:11,800 --> 00:04:13,600
get him.
I was like, are you nervous?

67
00:04:13,600 --> 00:04:16,000
He's like, nah.
Now we got this and you could

68
00:04:16,000 --> 00:04:18,200
just tell he had a certain
Swagger to him.

69
00:04:18,899 --> 00:04:24,500
So, I said that I sat there in
the waiting room and I just kind

70
00:04:24,500 --> 00:04:27,400
of, you know, did a lot of
thinking, and I did some reading

71
00:04:28,000 --> 00:04:33,800
and he comes out of the delivery
room and he said, okay, you can

72
00:04:33,800 --> 00:04:35,100
come see the baby.
Now we go.

73
00:04:35,100 --> 00:04:37,800
See the baby and everything's
cool.

74
00:04:38,200 --> 00:04:42,700
And I go back into the waiting
room and I just kind of lean

75
00:04:42,700 --> 00:04:46,500
back into the chair.
My son comes over and he sits in

76
00:04:46,500 --> 00:04:49,200
the chair.
Next to me, his head goes back.

77
00:04:49,300 --> 00:04:55,000
Up against the wall and you just
kind of size real heavy and I'm

78
00:04:55,000 --> 00:04:58,000
like you're right.
He's like just dawned on me,

79
00:04:58,000 --> 00:04:59,700
dad.
That's like what he's like.

80
00:05:00,100 --> 00:05:04,100
I don't know what I'm doing.
It was like I was like son.

81
00:05:04,400 --> 00:05:05,900
None of us knew what we were
doing.

82
00:05:06,000 --> 00:05:09,000
We all made it up.
As we went along, I was like

83
00:05:09,000 --> 00:05:11,700
you're going to do just fine.
That would, that would be the

84
00:05:11,700 --> 00:05:15,900
thing to remember is that, you
know, in your kids are always a

85
00:05:15,900 --> 00:05:19,000
little bit different, right?
I mean, at the end of the day,

86
00:05:19,000 --> 00:05:22,400
they're still People.
And they come with a personality

87
00:05:22,400 --> 00:05:25,900
that is 100%.
There's we can influence that

88
00:05:25,900 --> 00:05:28,600
somewhat but they are who they
are.

89
00:05:28,800 --> 00:05:32,500
And you're young, you are
uniquely qualified to be your

90
00:05:32,500 --> 00:05:36,200
kids parents for sure.
So, yeah, yeah.

91
00:05:36,200 --> 00:05:39,500
No, it'll be exciting to figure
out who they're going to be, you

92
00:05:39,500 --> 00:05:42,500
know, it's, it's going to be
cool to see, you know what

93
00:05:42,500 --> 00:05:45,300
things they pick up from, you
know, me or or the mom, you

94
00:05:45,300 --> 00:05:48,000
know, and I have fun when I kind
of do that.

95
00:05:48,000 --> 00:05:49,700
Even with my siblings or my
Self.

96
00:05:49,700 --> 00:05:52,900
And you kind of see this golden
thread of characteristics that

97
00:05:52,900 --> 00:05:55,900
you, you know, that are so
constant in the family that it's

98
00:05:55,900 --> 00:05:59,900
like, never taught, but it's
just part of your DNA, you know,

99
00:06:00,000 --> 00:06:01,600
in your family.
That's cool.

100
00:06:01,700 --> 00:06:04,500
It's cool to see that.
I'll tell you what, ours was in.

101
00:06:04,500 --> 00:06:06,400
That was being hyper
competitive.

102
00:06:06,700 --> 00:06:10,100
I don't know how to find.
I don't know how many times in

103
00:06:10,100 --> 00:06:13,300
the Sanders household.
There was more than one Monopoly

104
00:06:13,300 --> 00:06:17,300
board that flew across the room
and someone screamed, you know,

105
00:06:17,300 --> 00:06:19,200
cheater.
So that was just kind.

106
00:06:19,600 --> 00:06:22,300
I think that was the thread that
ran through our family, more

107
00:06:22,300 --> 00:06:25,200
than anything else, being hyper
competitive.

108
00:06:25,200 --> 00:06:30,500
But dude, I brought you on
because you had posted in one of

109
00:06:30,508 --> 00:06:36,800
the groups that I follow talk
that you had given just off the

110
00:06:36,800 --> 00:06:38,700
cuff, right?
Call on.

111
00:06:38,700 --> 00:06:44,900
You got up, you gave a talk and
it was about discernment and I

112
00:06:44,900 --> 00:06:48,700
thought, yeah, we need to talk
about this and discernment.

113
00:06:48,700 --> 00:06:52,500
One of those Things that as
Mormons it.

114
00:06:54,800 --> 00:06:57,500
It's one of those things that
you feel like you hear a lot

115
00:06:57,500 --> 00:07:02,300
about but I'll say this, I think
we're in a time now where

116
00:07:03,200 --> 00:07:08,100
discernment is vitally important
and it's only going to get more

117
00:07:08,100 --> 00:07:11,800
important as the days.
Get darker ahead of us.

118
00:07:13,000 --> 00:07:16,700
It's very sure that, you know,
we learn in the church, you

119
00:07:16,700 --> 00:07:19,400
know, you get baptized, you
receive the gift of the Holy

120
00:07:19,400 --> 00:07:22,500
Ghost and you have the privilege
to receipt, you know, to have

121
00:07:22,500 --> 00:07:24,400
the presence of the Holy Ghost
with you always, right?

122
00:07:25,000 --> 00:07:28,700
And I'm at a point in my life
recently, you know where that I

123
00:07:28,700 --> 00:07:30,800
really want to lay hold of that
and that was the, you know,

124
00:07:30,800 --> 00:07:32,900
Polly, why this is able to come
out so.

125
00:07:32,900 --> 00:07:35,200
Well, you know, it's because
that's what I've been studying,

126
00:07:35,500 --> 00:07:39,200
probably more than anything.
It was the Holy Ghost and how

127
00:07:39,200 --> 00:07:41,700
you're not necessarily how to
discern but how can I live by

128
00:07:41,700 --> 00:07:44,600
Revelation as well?
You know, that's personal

129
00:07:44,600 --> 00:07:47,600
revelation and how can I know
it's personal revelation and not

130
00:07:47,600 --> 00:07:51,700
just my subconscious or, you
know, the natural man, whatever

131
00:07:51,700 --> 00:07:56,300
you know, but I'll tell you, you
know, Little anecdote as well,

132
00:07:56,600 --> 00:07:58,500
you know, because it plays into
this as well.

133
00:07:58,500 --> 00:08:02,800
You know, when I was serving a
mission for the church in

134
00:08:02,800 --> 00:08:06,000
Minnesota, there was a stake
president up in the Duluth

135
00:08:06,000 --> 00:08:10,600
steak, you know, and I thought
this was funny, funny Behavior.

136
00:08:11,400 --> 00:08:15,000
He, you never prepare and so
you'd always see him at the

137
00:08:15,000 --> 00:08:18,100
stand because he talked all the
time and I was, I was stationed

138
00:08:18,100 --> 00:08:19,800
in the ward, that was his home
Ward.

139
00:08:20,000 --> 00:08:23,400
And so he he had to be at the
stake, you know, in the Duluth

140
00:08:23,400 --> 00:08:25,900
steak or whatever.
Those times when he come back to

141
00:08:25,900 --> 00:08:30,500
the Virginia Ward, where I was,
you know, where I was placed and

142
00:08:30,500 --> 00:08:33,400
he would talk, but you see him
at the stand and he be playing

143
00:08:33,400 --> 00:08:35,600
with his scriptures and just
kind of fiddling, like he was

144
00:08:35,600 --> 00:08:39,200
nervous and I asked my
companion, like, what's he

145
00:08:39,200 --> 00:08:41,000
doing?
That is like well apparently

146
00:08:41,299 --> 00:08:43,900
when he was set apart as the
stake president, the 70 told

147
00:08:43,900 --> 00:08:47,800
him.
Strictly not fair any time

148
00:08:47,800 --> 00:08:51,000
before he got up to the pulpit
and that he'd have to be led by

149
00:08:51,000 --> 00:08:53,700
the spirit when he was giving a
talk.

150
00:08:54,000 --> 00:08:56,000
Now, I come to find And out.
That's the way that the church

151
00:08:56,000 --> 00:08:58,600
at always, you know, that's the
way in the early church, that's

152
00:08:58,600 --> 00:09:03,700
how meetings were ran, you know,
you know, you and anyone can be

153
00:09:03,700 --> 00:09:07,700
called on all these things.
And what it does is it makes you

154
00:09:07,700 --> 00:09:10,900
be a little bit more attentive
to what's happening in the

155
00:09:10,900 --> 00:09:12,300
meeting.
What's the theme of the meeting?

156
00:09:12,300 --> 00:09:15,100
For example, you know, you a
call Donnie, you know, he's, you

157
00:09:15,108 --> 00:09:19,200
know, you can get called out,
you know, any point and versus

158
00:09:19,400 --> 00:09:23,800
now speakers are chosen and
given the topic, right?

159
00:09:23,800 --> 00:09:27,700
And you don't have Fear of how
being able to, you know, and you

160
00:09:27,700 --> 00:09:31,900
got these silly jokes about, you
know, Bishop called me two weeks

161
00:09:31,900 --> 00:09:33,800
ago.
See if I was doing a give a

162
00:09:33,800 --> 00:09:35,400
talk.
Yeah.

163
00:09:35,500 --> 00:09:37,400
Kevin.
I didn't want to do it but he

164
00:09:37,400 --> 00:09:39,800
helps, right.
Thank you guys.

165
00:09:39,900 --> 00:09:43,200
It's like so silly.
We're so silly compared to, you

166
00:09:43,200 --> 00:09:46,800
know, what's wrong with giving a
talk and yeah?

167
00:09:46,900 --> 00:09:50,700
What, why deny all the
opportunity to receive what the

168
00:09:50,700 --> 00:09:54,500
Holy Ghost to tell you to impart
to the dear fellow Saints at

169
00:09:54,700 --> 00:09:56,700
That moment.
Hi, it's a privilege.

170
00:09:58,200 --> 00:10:03,000
I agree with you totally.
I remember, I remember when I

171
00:10:04,300 --> 00:10:10,900
was first called on to talk, let
me back up when I was first in

172
00:10:10,900 --> 00:10:17,200
fundamentalism full force out in
the open that sort of thing and

173
00:10:17,300 --> 00:10:21,800
realizing that any moment
someone could do just that in

174
00:10:21,800 --> 00:10:24,300
the meeting.
Dave, would you come talk to us

175
00:10:24,300 --> 00:10:28,600
for a It.
And what I noticed is that this

176
00:10:28,600 --> 00:10:32,500
is going to sound silly, my
scripture study, got way, more

177
00:10:32,500 --> 00:10:37,000
intense.
Because cool, I always wanted to

178
00:10:37,000 --> 00:10:42,000
be able to draw from that pool
at a moment's notice, right?

179
00:10:42,100 --> 00:10:48,100
And so my my own studies got way
more intense so that I could

180
00:10:48,100 --> 00:10:52,100
always be somewhat prepared.
No matter what circumstance I

181
00:10:52,100 --> 00:10:56,300
was in the other thing is that
That all of a sudden.

182
00:10:59,100 --> 00:11:01,800
Being in tune becomes a way
bigger deal.

183
00:11:03,800 --> 00:11:09,100
A way bigger deal.
And when you're in that, in that

184
00:11:09,400 --> 00:11:14,600
that mindset, that that
perspective, you really can't go

185
00:11:14,600 --> 00:11:16,700
wrong.
All of a sudden that promise

186
00:11:16,700 --> 00:11:20,300
it's made in the Doctrine and
Covenants about, you know, first

187
00:11:21,100 --> 00:11:25,000
obtain my word.
But then don't worry when it's

188
00:11:25,000 --> 00:11:30,200
your time to talk because I'll
be there to, to give you the

189
00:11:30,200 --> 00:11:32,500
message that needs to be
communicated.

190
00:11:32,500 --> 00:11:35,400
Yeah, I've gotten a big
testimony of that principle, you

191
00:11:35,400 --> 00:11:38,000
know, I that was that was with
the words.

192
00:11:38,000 --> 00:11:40,700
I But as I tried to learn the
gospel and Be an Effective

193
00:11:40,700 --> 00:11:43,800
missionary for the church and
that's exactly right.

194
00:11:43,800 --> 00:11:47,100
And then even dude, as it as an
elder you get picked on by the

195
00:11:47,400 --> 00:11:50,300
local authorities to I the
congregants.

196
00:11:50,300 --> 00:11:51,800
See.
Know you like you don't you

197
00:11:51,800 --> 00:11:54,200
can't really call them up with
the elders you can get called up

198
00:11:54,200 --> 00:11:58,200
right now to come talk you know
there's a if there's a lull in

199
00:11:58,200 --> 00:12:00,800
the meetings for some reason you
feel like we have to end right

200
00:12:00,800 --> 00:12:06,200
at 50 after.
Yeah, right right right.

201
00:12:06,200 --> 00:12:08,100
Yeah.
No that's it.

202
00:12:08,200 --> 00:12:12,300
It does keep you on your toes
and I've really appreciated that

203
00:12:12,800 --> 00:12:17,100
because again, it's just made my
my discipleship go a little bit

204
00:12:17,100 --> 00:12:21,600
deeper especially in studying
the gospel, so you get up there

205
00:12:21,600 --> 00:12:25,800
to give your talk and and why
don't you break down real quick?

206
00:12:25,900 --> 00:12:29,700
What it is your talk said, what
it was.

207
00:12:30,900 --> 00:12:34,800
That prompted you to be like,
you know, this will be of some

208
00:12:34,800 --> 00:12:38,400
Worth to someone else and then
put that out there on Facebook,

209
00:12:38,700 --> 00:12:39,500
you know?
All right.

210
00:12:39,500 --> 00:12:44,100
So like I said, I went to Helens
in church and I mean, I know,

211
00:12:44,100 --> 00:12:46,900
attention to Taka or anything,
you know, the meeting happened

212
00:12:46,900 --> 00:12:49,700
to be on discernment.
Several people have talked at

213
00:12:49,700 --> 00:12:52,600
the tail end of the meeting.
You know, person conducting the

214
00:12:52,600 --> 00:12:55,100
meeting asked you my full you
come up here and share your

215
00:12:55,100 --> 00:12:58,500
thoughts with us and you know,
it's pretty attentive to it, I

216
00:12:58,500 --> 00:13:01,300
love the topic, you know, it was
great, it was a good - meeting.

217
00:13:02,200 --> 00:13:04,300
So, I don't, this was not
prepared, you know, but after I

218
00:13:04,308 --> 00:13:07,600
gave the talk, I waited a few,
like, two or three days, and I

219
00:13:07,600 --> 00:13:10,400
was just thinking about it and
the principles and, you know,

220
00:13:10,400 --> 00:13:13,200
and I got to go type setup, you
know, off my memory.

221
00:13:13,600 --> 00:13:17,400
And so, that's what I did not.
So I got that before me, but

222
00:13:17,800 --> 00:13:20,800
there's, I don't even know where
to we could dive into it or I

223
00:13:20,800 --> 00:13:22,600
could.
But there's a there's a there's

224
00:13:22,600 --> 00:13:27,400
so many different things in our
history and present in the world

225
00:13:27,400 --> 00:13:30,200
amongst us and that that always
make me.

226
00:13:30,600 --> 00:13:32,900
You know, want to know what's
the truth and what's the counter

227
00:13:32,900 --> 00:13:35,300
fit, right?
In in the ancient history, we

228
00:13:35,300 --> 00:13:38,700
have the prophets of Baal and
the priests of Baal to always

229
00:13:38,700 --> 00:13:41,200
infiltrated.
They infiltrated?

230
00:13:41,200 --> 00:13:45,500
The scene in ancient Israel, and
in the Days of Elijah, he had to

231
00:13:45,500 --> 00:13:47,300
go tell them, you know, he said
go you to King.

232
00:13:47,300 --> 00:13:50,600
Ahab already has go gather
everyone in Mount Carmel and he

233
00:13:50,600 --> 00:13:54,600
made a proclamation in that day,
he says why halt, ye between two

234
00:13:54,600 --> 00:13:57,400
opinions because the people were
stuck because they couldn't

235
00:13:57,400 --> 00:14:01,000
discern the difference between
bail and Jehovah at Point in

236
00:14:01,000 --> 00:14:03,700
time, you know?
Because I believe this is my

237
00:14:03,800 --> 00:14:06,200
this is my perspective, there
are so many elements of the

238
00:14:06,200 --> 00:14:10,600
priests of Baal at that that
were so similar that it was like

239
00:14:10,600 --> 00:14:12,400
what's the difference if we call
them by one name.

240
00:14:12,400 --> 00:14:17,400
Versus mm brother, you know.
And but and so Elijah has to,

241
00:14:17,800 --> 00:14:19,500
we're deciding today.
You know.

242
00:14:19,600 --> 00:14:22,100
It was a God in Israel whether
it's whether it's bail or

243
00:14:22,100 --> 00:14:25,600
Jehovah and and so you have
that, you know, you have that

244
00:14:25,600 --> 00:14:29,100
theme, you know, in ancient
times and he have so many

245
00:14:29,500 --> 00:14:31,800
diverse of Vince in Mormonism
today.

246
00:14:31,800 --> 00:14:36,600
Even you know, it's look at the
Denver Snuffer and his, what do

247
00:14:36,608 --> 00:14:38,600
they call themselves?
The REM they call themselves a

248
00:14:38,600 --> 00:14:41,400
Remnant as I kind of how they
label themselves.

249
00:14:41,400 --> 00:14:45,600
Any of the the doctrine of
Christ, you know, movement /

250
00:14:45,600 --> 00:14:50,200
group with all sorts of
different undercurrents and I

251
00:14:50,200 --> 00:14:52,600
can't even list them all,
really, you know, there's but

252
00:14:52,900 --> 00:14:57,700
they are there may be taking a
claim by establishing a really

253
00:14:57,700 --> 00:15:00,000
good counterfeit on certain
things, you know.

254
00:15:00,000 --> 00:15:03,200
And and So it becomes really
important, I think to know what

255
00:15:03,200 --> 00:15:05,600
the true gospel.
It is it what what the true

256
00:15:05,600 --> 00:15:08,400
gospel is in study it so
efficiently that you can tell

257
00:15:08,400 --> 00:15:13,300
what a counterfeit looks like.
Yeah, we we need to remember

258
00:15:13,300 --> 00:15:19,500
that when it came to Moses write
in the pearl of great price

259
00:15:19,900 --> 00:15:23,800
Satan doesn't show up looking
like the Grim Reaper, right?

260
00:15:23,800 --> 00:15:28,200
He comes counterfeited, he tried
to Blind.

261
00:15:28,200 --> 00:15:33,800
Moses with light right now,
counterfeit light, but light,

262
00:15:33,800 --> 00:15:36,800
nonetheless, he thought if I
just make myself bright enough,

263
00:15:38,400 --> 00:15:42,700
I'll get the job done and write
what you see in these emergent

264
00:15:42,700 --> 00:15:47,200
movements and I say Divergent, I
mean, Divergent in the sense of

265
00:15:47,800 --> 00:15:51,200
when when they're done and you
look at them in their totality,

266
00:15:52,200 --> 00:15:55,500
they say, oh yeah, we we worship
Jesus Christ, we believe in the

267
00:15:55,508 --> 00:15:58,100
restored gospel, we believe in
Joseph Smith.

268
00:15:58,500 --> 00:16:02,500
But what you end up finding out
is it's a very different savior

269
00:16:02,500 --> 00:16:04,300
that they talk about than the
Savior.

270
00:16:04,300 --> 00:16:08,700
Joseph Smith talked about
absolutely And they remake

271
00:16:08,700 --> 00:16:11,400
Joseph Smith into something.
He's not.

272
00:16:11,400 --> 00:16:14,300
So it's a very different Joseph
that you end up encountering

273
00:16:14,300 --> 00:16:22,200
within these groups.
And then you also find that the

274
00:16:22,800 --> 00:16:26,200
there's this idea of
discrediting the early Brethren

275
00:16:26,300 --> 00:16:31,000
after Joseph and so what you
have is essentially the same

276
00:16:31,000 --> 00:16:35,700
tactic employed by Lucifer on
the mountain.

277
00:16:36,700 --> 00:16:40,500
With Moses, we'll just blind you
with light right works.

278
00:16:40,500 --> 00:16:41,900
It works.
You read in the pearl of great

279
00:16:41,900 --> 00:16:44,600
price right?
After right after Adam makes

280
00:16:44,600 --> 00:16:47,400
known you know the principles of
the law of sacrifice and other

281
00:16:47,400 --> 00:16:50,900
things to his children.
It says Satan Kim among the

282
00:16:50,900 --> 00:16:54,200
children of Adam and Eve and
said believe it or not, you

283
00:16:54,200 --> 00:16:56,500
know.
And and they believe the not a

284
00:16:56,500 --> 00:16:59,200
says because named Angel like
came, you know which was Satan

285
00:16:59,200 --> 00:17:01,900
came to Adam's children at the
dump L Dad don't leave your

286
00:17:01,900 --> 00:17:05,599
father and and then it said and
then they began to love Satan

287
00:17:05,599 --> 00:17:07,400
more than God.
God in those days, right?

288
00:17:07,400 --> 00:17:10,200
And it worked.
Yep, absolutely.

289
00:17:10,599 --> 00:17:15,000
And, and so this, this is why I
think having discernment is so

290
00:17:15,000 --> 00:17:20,900
important today, because I've
been a Mormon, now, since 1995,

291
00:17:21,700 --> 00:17:23,300
right?
That's when I joined the LDS

292
00:17:23,300 --> 00:17:26,599
church and then later went into
fundamentalism.

293
00:17:27,099 --> 00:17:30,500
So what is that?
That's almost 30 years now.

294
00:17:31,300 --> 00:17:32,900
Holy crap.
That's almost 30 years.

295
00:17:32,900 --> 00:17:36,100
Now, you've been a Mormon longer
than I've been alive.

296
00:17:37,400 --> 00:17:38,600
You can stop there.
We're done.

297
00:17:38,700 --> 00:17:40,600
We're done wrap this up.
We're done.

298
00:17:41,400 --> 00:17:43,300
We're gonna end of the
interview.

299
00:17:44,300 --> 00:17:46,800
I always said, you had a
standing invitation to come back

300
00:17:46,800 --> 00:17:50,900
on for the first time ever.
I'm revoking that, I appreciate

301
00:17:50,900 --> 00:18:03,600
that only by a year so yeah, we
thought it was great.

302
00:18:04,400 --> 00:18:07,300
Yeah, there's really nothing.
for me to look forward to now,

303
00:18:07,300 --> 00:18:16,700
accept my AARP card, so And
talking really loud and saying

304
00:18:16,700 --> 00:18:19,200
offense offense, full things
because that's just what old

305
00:18:19,200 --> 00:18:21,000
people get it.
Get to look forward to.

306
00:18:21,100 --> 00:18:26,700
Anyway let's get back on back on
this in my estimation.

307
00:18:27,800 --> 00:18:34,000
I'm not sure that we have had
this many Divergent movements

308
00:18:34,600 --> 00:18:38,700
since maybe the secession crisis
right after Joseph died.

309
00:18:39,800 --> 00:18:43,800
It could be very true and And
when I say Divergent I'm not

310
00:18:43,800 --> 00:18:48,500
talking about just a difference
between LDS and fundamentalists.

311
00:18:48,500 --> 00:18:54,100
I'm talking about repainting who
Joseph was repainting who the

312
00:18:54,100 --> 00:19:00,800
savior is recasting the early
leading Brethren especially in

313
00:19:00,800 --> 00:19:05,200
the Utah period as Despicable.
I mean this this is something

314
00:19:05,200 --> 00:19:08,800
Insidious, we haven't seen in a
long time and it's actually

315
00:19:08,800 --> 00:19:11,900
reminds me of what they did to
the founding.

316
00:19:12,000 --> 00:19:12,900
Others.
Right.

317
00:19:12,900 --> 00:19:17,000
Starting about two years ago.
The idea was as if you discredit

318
00:19:17,200 --> 00:19:21,300
who the founders are, you can.
Discredit the documents they

319
00:19:21,300 --> 00:19:24,800
created and now you can remake
America into something

320
00:19:24,800 --> 00:19:28,700
different, the same thing.
Now the same tactic is being

321
00:19:28,700 --> 00:19:32,100
employed within the church where
they can say look if we can

322
00:19:32,100 --> 00:19:37,000
discredit those early Brethren
from the Utah, period Brigham,

323
00:19:37,100 --> 00:19:41,700
John Taylor.
And then paint Joseph as

324
00:19:41,700 --> 00:19:44,100
somebody different.
Well then we can remake the

325
00:19:44,100 --> 00:19:48,500
gospel into whatever we want and
that is a trajectory.

326
00:19:49,100 --> 00:19:51,700
Yeah, and we're going to talk
about that and I'll even let you

327
00:19:51,700 --> 00:19:52,900
know.
I think we have room to talk

328
00:19:52,900 --> 00:19:56,200
about the succession crisis.
As we dive into this talk to

329
00:19:56,500 --> 00:19:58,300
because like it's touched on a
little bit.

330
00:19:59,100 --> 00:20:01,100
I suppose, I can read, I don't
know.

331
00:20:01,400 --> 00:20:05,000
Yeah, so yeah.
Hopefully this flows.

332
00:20:05,000 --> 00:20:06,900
Well this will pull up just
fine.

333
00:20:07,200 --> 00:20:12,100
So starting with this time, I
say I haven't looked at the time

334
00:20:12,100 --> 00:20:15,300
but I don't plan on taking too
long at the end here since the

335
00:20:15,300 --> 00:20:16,500
theme of the meeting has been
discernment.

336
00:20:16,500 --> 00:20:19,100
And brother Hyrum wants to know
my thoughts, I would cite your

337
00:20:19,100 --> 00:20:20,900
minds to the very beginning of
the restoration.

338
00:20:20,900 --> 00:20:24,400
One of the first lessons we ever
learned as a convert, or as a

339
00:20:24,408 --> 00:20:27,200
child because it's at the very
beginning of the Book of Mormon,

340
00:20:27,200 --> 00:20:29,900
we learn at the start of the
Book of Mormon about a great

341
00:20:29,900 --> 00:20:32,600
prophet named Lehi, he
prophesied the destruction of

342
00:20:32,600 --> 00:20:34,600
Jerusalem around.
The time of Jeremiah, the

343
00:20:34,600 --> 00:20:37,200
prophet we see that he had
visions and he was called a

344
00:20:37,200 --> 00:20:40,000
Visionary man, but I imagine to
Get to that point.

345
00:20:40,000 --> 00:20:42,900
He had to have developed quite a
gift of discernment for a while.

346
00:20:42,900 --> 00:20:46,100
He prophesied the destruction of
Jerusalem and told the Jews of

347
00:20:46,100 --> 00:20:49,100
their wickedness, we see that
his sons Laman and Lemuel.

348
00:20:49,100 --> 00:20:51,300
Considered the people of
Jerusalem to be righteous

349
00:20:51,500 --> 00:20:53,300
because they kept the law of
Moses.

350
00:20:53,600 --> 00:20:57,200
That means the Laman and Lemuel
knew the law and were obedient

351
00:20:57,200 --> 00:21:01,100
to the letter of the law, they
and the Jews kept the law, but

352
00:21:01,100 --> 00:21:04,300
something else was wrong by
outward, appearances.

353
00:21:04,600 --> 00:21:07,000
It seems the Covenant people
were doing what they had been

354
00:21:07,000 --> 00:21:09,000
told to do.
And I imagined it.

355
00:21:09,500 --> 00:21:12,100
Quite a gift of discernment to
determine that beneath this

356
00:21:12,100 --> 00:21:15,500
facade of keeping the law.
The people were actually Wicked

357
00:21:15,500 --> 00:21:18,600
enough to be condemned to
destruction, Lehigh and other

358
00:21:18,600 --> 00:21:20,500
prophets.
Can discern that the people were

359
00:21:20,500 --> 00:21:24,000
Wicked with a covering of being
a saint, the Laman and Lemuel

360
00:21:24,000 --> 00:21:25,700
and others could not discern
passed.

361
00:21:25,700 --> 00:21:29,100
A counterfeit gospel or going
through the motions, you know,

362
00:21:29,100 --> 00:21:32,200
of, in their society.
Let me see this your Prophet

363
00:21:32,200 --> 00:21:34,300
Lehi.
I would, yeah, let's feel free

364
00:21:34,300 --> 00:21:36,100
to do that.
Yeah, you can stop me anytime.

365
00:21:36,100 --> 00:21:38,300
Yep, let me stop you right
there.

366
00:21:38,600 --> 00:21:42,900
Let's Really kind of Define what
discernment is first, right?

367
00:21:42,900 --> 00:21:46,700
Sure, sometimes discernment can
seem a bit nebulous, right?

368
00:21:46,700 --> 00:21:49,400
Can seem kind of like it's just
floating out there in The Ether

369
00:21:49,400 --> 00:21:51,000
so to speak.
I agree.

370
00:21:51,300 --> 00:21:55,000
So what what is discernment?
Well ma'am if you put that on me

371
00:21:55,600 --> 00:21:58,900
I just I think it's knowing
what's real and what's not real

372
00:21:59,000 --> 00:22:02,100
you know what's what's telling
you a lion was telling you the

373
00:22:02,100 --> 00:22:04,900
truth is there a spirit there
that's trying to tell you sell

374
00:22:04,900 --> 00:22:08,200
you something and deceive you
you know versus you know or is

375
00:22:08,200 --> 00:22:10,200
this something that's going to I
defy you and you need to know

376
00:22:10,200 --> 00:22:12,400
you need to know the difference,
you know.

377
00:22:12,800 --> 00:22:16,800
Discernment is not being
confused, you know, between two

378
00:22:16,800 --> 00:22:18,600
courses in life, I guess, you
know.

379
00:22:20,300 --> 00:22:24,200
And so it's interesting to
ponder the situation because you

380
00:22:24,200 --> 00:22:29,600
have Lehigh who's giving an
extremely unpatriotic message in

381
00:22:29,600 --> 00:22:32,100
the days of Jerusalem and Judah
when they're at war with

382
00:22:32,100 --> 00:22:34,800
Babylon.
And that's a heart, that's a

383
00:22:34,808 --> 00:22:38,300
hard thing to sell the people,
you know, because the you can

384
00:22:38,300 --> 00:22:41,400
read in Jeremiah Shh, where
Jeremiah is telling the people

385
00:22:41,600 --> 00:22:46,400
that unless you make a deal with
Babylon and peace, you will be

386
00:22:46,400 --> 00:22:49,000
utterly destroyed.
You know, but the people didn't

387
00:22:49,000 --> 00:22:50,700
want peace, they wanted
Independence and I get it.

388
00:22:50,708 --> 00:22:54,300
Who wants to, who wants to be in
servitude to this week in

389
00:22:54,300 --> 00:22:56,100
nation.
But because of their own

390
00:22:56,100 --> 00:22:58,700
wickedness and not relying on
the Lord, that was the Judgment.

391
00:22:58,700 --> 00:23:01,400
That was the Judgment that they
had and that's what they had to

392
00:23:01,800 --> 00:23:04,200
deal with.
And that was the Lord's terms,

393
00:23:04,300 --> 00:23:07,600
you know, was that, if you can,
if you can agree that key piece

394
00:23:07,600 --> 00:23:10,000
of Babylon and at least keep To
the Sabbath day.

395
00:23:10,000 --> 00:23:13,300
Pull holy, I will not destroy
you and it wouldn't do that.

396
00:23:13,300 --> 00:23:18,700
You know it's interesting that
so it is interesting because it

397
00:23:18,708 --> 00:23:20,500
doesn't sound like they're
keeping the Commandments from

398
00:23:20,500 --> 00:23:22,900
that book of Jeremiah.
But Laman and Lemuel were

399
00:23:22,900 --> 00:23:25,000
convinced that they were you
know are we know our people are

400
00:23:25,000 --> 00:23:26,800
righteous people because they
keep the law of Moses.

401
00:23:27,300 --> 00:23:31,300
Well let's for a second.
Let's talk about that because I

402
00:23:31,300 --> 00:23:35,700
think that's an interesting.
An interesting parallel or

403
00:23:35,700 --> 00:23:40,500
Paradigm, right?
This idea of we're doing

404
00:23:40,500 --> 00:23:43,600
everything right, okay?
Right.

405
00:23:44,500 --> 00:23:48,900
I like to push back on that a
little bit couple reasons, one,

406
00:23:48,900 --> 00:23:52,500
is that if you're doing
everything right, you've assent,

407
00:23:52,500 --> 00:23:54,300
or you think you're doing
everything right?

408
00:23:54,300 --> 00:23:57,000
You've put yourself into a
position to where you've

409
00:23:57,000 --> 00:24:01,400
essentially made yourself
unteachable, right?

410
00:24:01,800 --> 00:24:08,100
The next thing I would say is
that, No matter what, Walk of

411
00:24:08,100 --> 00:24:13,800
Life, if you think you have it
made you stop striving a little

412
00:24:13,800 --> 00:24:15,700
bit.
Right?

413
00:24:15,700 --> 00:24:20,600
You stopped working.
If you wasn't, I just watched

414
00:24:21,400 --> 00:24:23,300
here.
It's been out for about a year

415
00:24:23,300 --> 00:24:27,400
but I just got done watching it.
It was called The Last Dance,

416
00:24:27,500 --> 00:24:31,700
and it was about the, the 96
bowls and it followed Jordan

417
00:24:31,700 --> 00:24:35,300
through his career.
And what I realized is what that

418
00:24:35,300 --> 00:24:39,200
man was a maniac, right?
That dude was never satisfied,

419
00:24:39,400 --> 00:24:42,800
Excellence was not good enough.
And I think when it comes to the

420
00:24:42,800 --> 00:24:48,300
gospel, we have to adopt a That
attitude of her picture of,

421
00:24:48,400 --> 00:24:50,900
okay, maybe you have the
scriptures, all memorized, how

422
00:24:50,900 --> 00:24:53,200
about your ordinances?
You got those all memorized,

423
00:24:53,500 --> 00:24:55,700
right?
What, how close are you to the

424
00:24:55,700 --> 00:24:57,800
Lord, really?
I mean, are you striving to have

425
00:24:57,800 --> 00:25:01,500
that encounter that Joseph did?
Because if you're not, you're

426
00:25:01,500 --> 00:25:06,000
not upping your game and I'm a
big believer in no matter how

427
00:25:06,000 --> 00:25:08,400
well you did, you can always up
your game.

428
00:25:09,600 --> 00:25:12,300
Yep.
And and so when we start talking

429
00:25:12,300 --> 00:25:17,500
about boy, I'm gonna get in
trouble here, I'm just going to

430
00:25:17,500 --> 00:25:21,000
say it.
If you look at the Wasatch Front

431
00:25:21,000 --> 00:25:25,200
right now, you have a lot of
successful people.

432
00:25:25,600 --> 00:25:30,600
Oh yeah, absolutely, there's no
shortage of money out there.

433
00:25:31,700 --> 00:25:37,500
The problem is is that your
monetary success right now,

434
00:25:37,500 --> 00:25:43,000
along the Wasatch Front seems to
have been tied by man.

435
00:25:44,000 --> 00:25:47,800
To this idea of you must be
really righteous, then yeah.

436
00:25:47,800 --> 00:25:52,400
My the proof of my righteousness
is in the how big my house is

437
00:25:52,400 --> 00:25:53,800
and I got a boat that I can take
to Lake.

438
00:25:53,800 --> 00:25:56,100
Powell every summer.
Yep.

439
00:25:56,300 --> 00:25:58,200
Yep.
And you see a lot of that.

440
00:25:58,500 --> 00:26:03,300
And so, when I look at Laman and
Lemuel, And they're like, we're

441
00:26:03,300 --> 00:26:05,800
all good over here.
I mean, look, we got this all

442
00:26:05,800 --> 00:26:08,300
going.
We can go out for dinners.

443
00:26:08,300 --> 00:26:11,100
We can do X Y and Z.
We're loaded.

444
00:26:11,100 --> 00:26:14,000
We got plenty of cash, dad did
okay, right?

445
00:26:14,000 --> 00:26:17,900
We, you know, and the rest of
the, the nation seems to be

446
00:26:17,900 --> 00:26:23,200
doing, okay.
But again discernment would tell

447
00:26:23,200 --> 00:26:26,500
you.
Your wealth has nothing to do

448
00:26:27,200 --> 00:26:32,600
with your righteousness and so
having a of discernment is

449
00:26:32,600 --> 00:26:37,500
probably or not having it in
this case probably led to Laman

450
00:26:37,500 --> 00:26:41,400
and Lemuel.
Again being deceived somewhat

451
00:26:41,600 --> 00:26:46,200
because they in.
So when you know they say we're

452
00:26:46,200 --> 00:26:48,500
keeping the Commandments.
Well, how many Commandments are

453
00:26:48,500 --> 00:26:49,800
you really keeping?
I mean.

454
00:26:50,100 --> 00:26:52,500
Are you justifying your way out
of some?

455
00:26:52,700 --> 00:26:56,000
I mean, lets you know, so just
like what we see today?

456
00:26:56,400 --> 00:26:58,400
Yeah, I think so.
Yeah, it's a good point to bring

457
00:26:58,400 --> 00:27:00,100
up.
I hadn't thought along those

458
00:27:00,100 --> 00:27:02,300
parallels.
So we have this great prophet

459
00:27:02,300 --> 00:27:05,400
Lehi who likely had a great
talent for discernment and the

460
00:27:05,408 --> 00:27:07,100
spirit of the Lord and abundance
to help him.

461
00:27:07,400 --> 00:27:08,900
But we read that in one of his
Visions.

462
00:27:09,100 --> 00:27:11,700
He was left in great.
Mists of Darkness for a very

463
00:27:11,700 --> 00:27:14,400
long time, and you can't discern
too much when you have nothing

464
00:27:14,400 --> 00:27:17,900
to see or compare ricotta or
have any contrast and Lehi was

465
00:27:17,900 --> 00:27:20,000
wandering alone in The Mists of
darkness in this world.

466
00:27:20,200 --> 00:27:22,800
This for a prolonged period and
eventually comes to the iron

467
00:27:22,800 --> 00:27:24,400
rod.
And this is the only thing that

468
00:27:24,400 --> 00:27:27,500
he can discern around them.
Maybe those Mists of Darkness

469
00:27:27,500 --> 00:27:30,100
can represent periods of time
when the Lord will withdraw the

470
00:27:30,100 --> 00:27:33,400
presence of the Holy Ghost from
us, not because of some sin or

471
00:27:33,408 --> 00:27:35,500
transgression.
But because I think it's

472
00:27:35,500 --> 00:27:39,100
possible that the Lord will do
that to test us in our faith and

473
00:27:39,100 --> 00:27:42,600
our conversion to see if you'll
keep his Commandments without

474
00:27:42,600 --> 00:27:45,100
the presence of the Holy Ghost,
we read in the scriptures that

475
00:27:45,100 --> 00:27:48,500
even our Lord though through no,
cause of his own, you know, no

476
00:27:48,500 --> 00:27:51,500
transgression or sin.
He had the spirit of his father

477
00:27:51,500 --> 00:27:54,400
was drawn from him and his last
trials to see if he would fully

478
00:27:54,400 --> 00:27:56,600
submit to following the course,
ordained for him.

479
00:27:56,800 --> 00:27:58,900
I imagine Lehigh is having the
same kind of test being

480
00:27:58,900 --> 00:28:01,900
represented before him and now
in a state where he is being

481
00:28:01,900 --> 00:28:04,500
tested without the spirit.
What does he find a guy item,

482
00:28:04,600 --> 00:28:08,100
the iron Rod, which is the word
of God, that's the tool that's

483
00:28:08,100 --> 00:28:10,700
given to him.
And to us to compare and

484
00:28:10,700 --> 00:28:14,000
contrast between right and wrong
discern between the truth and an

485
00:28:14,000 --> 00:28:16,400
imitation of Truth.
When perhaps we don't feel like

486
00:28:16,400 --> 00:28:18,600
we have the spirit though, it's
no fault of our own at the

487
00:28:18,600 --> 00:28:21,400
moment.
Now, I realize that this can get

488
00:28:21,400 --> 00:28:24,100
relatively subjective for.
We belong to a faith.

489
00:28:24,100 --> 00:28:26,300
That takes a standard of
measurement in the Christian

490
00:28:26,300 --> 00:28:28,900
world.
And we say, we believe the Bible

491
00:28:28,900 --> 00:28:32,100
to be the word of God in as much
as it is translated correctly.

492
00:28:32,300 --> 00:28:34,700
And that adds some subjectivity
to the Bible being a measuring

493
00:28:34,700 --> 00:28:36,800
stick for us.
And it requires us to also

494
00:28:36,800 --> 00:28:40,900
believe in the restored content
that Joseph Smith gave to remove

495
00:28:41,000 --> 00:28:43,000
some of the problems that we
find in the Bible.

496
00:28:43,100 --> 00:28:46,500
So in light of this relative
flexibility, how do we determine

497
00:28:46,500 --> 00:28:49,500
what an appropriate measuring
stick is when you are in Mists

498
00:28:49,500 --> 00:28:51,400
of Darkness.
Enos and without being able to

499
00:28:51,400 --> 00:28:54,800
discern the presence of the Holy
Ghost, the Brethren have given

500
00:28:54,800 --> 00:28:57,800
us some good measuring six over
the years, but it requires you

501
00:28:57,800 --> 00:28:59,200
to get a testimony of their
words.

502
00:28:59,400 --> 00:29:01,900
One measuring stick, I believe
in is given to us by President

503
00:29:01,900 --> 00:29:04,400
Brigham Young.
He said that any Spirit or

504
00:29:04,400 --> 00:29:06,700
messenger in this world that
does not confess.

505
00:29:06,700 --> 00:29:09,700
That Joseph Smith lived and died
a prophet of God is an

506
00:29:09,700 --> 00:29:11,900
antichrist.
There are a few people out in

507
00:29:11,908 --> 00:29:14,000
the, in the world who believe in
their faith.

508
00:29:14,000 --> 00:29:16,700
That Joseph Smith lived as a
prophet of God, but that he had

509
00:29:16,700 --> 00:29:19,500
a fall from grace, and became a
fallen profit before his death

510
00:29:19,600 --> 00:29:20,800
and some of Differ in their
reasons.

511
00:29:20,800 --> 00:29:24,500
Why when Brigham Young is saying
this and giving this ski, he is

512
00:29:24,500 --> 00:29:27,100
paraphrasing something from the
Epistle of John.

513
00:29:27,400 --> 00:29:30,500
Yeah, it's first.
John chapter 4 which says

514
00:29:30,600 --> 00:29:34,400
beloved believe, not every
Spirit, but try the spirits,

515
00:29:34,400 --> 00:29:39,100
whether they are of God because
many false prophets are gone out

516
00:29:39,100 --> 00:29:42,100
into the world.
Hereby know, ye the spirit of

517
00:29:42,100 --> 00:29:44,300
God.
Every spirit, that confesseth

518
00:29:44,300 --> 00:29:47,100
that Jesus Christ is come in,
the flesh is of God.

519
00:29:47,200 --> 00:29:50,200
And every spirit that confesseth
not that Jesus Christ is Come

520
00:29:50,200 --> 00:29:53,200
in, the flesh is not of God.
And this is the spirit of

521
00:29:53,200 --> 00:29:56,400
antichrist where for where of
you have heard that it should

522
00:29:56,400 --> 00:29:59,300
come.
And even now it is already in

523
00:29:59,300 --> 00:30:02,400
the world, so real quick.
Sure.

524
00:30:02,500 --> 00:30:05,500
Before we, before we move on
there, I think there's a couple

525
00:30:05,500 --> 00:30:12,600
things I want to dive into their
sure. and that is this idea of

526
00:30:12,600 --> 00:30:20,700
being able if I'm understanding
you correctly being able to For

527
00:30:20,700 --> 00:30:24,300
short periods of time because I
want to make this clear, right?

528
00:30:24,300 --> 00:30:28,800
I think life is I don't think I
know the life that life is

529
00:30:28,800 --> 00:30:31,500
better.
When you have companionship of

530
00:30:31,500 --> 00:30:34,100
the Holy Ghost.
Absolutely.

531
00:30:35,300 --> 00:30:39,200
However there are times of trial
whether we get put into a place

532
00:30:39,200 --> 00:30:43,900
where the Holy Ghost feels like
he can't be because it's Unholy

533
00:30:43,900 --> 00:30:46,100
or whatever and we find
ourselves that place.

534
00:30:47,200 --> 00:30:52,400
What is discernment?
Then if not something given by

535
00:30:52,400 --> 00:30:56,100
the Holy Ghost, is this the
Light of Christ were talking

536
00:30:56,100 --> 00:30:57,700
about?
Well we do know from the

537
00:30:57,708 --> 00:31:00,700
scriptures.
Every every person has a son or

538
00:31:00,700 --> 00:31:03,200
daughter of our heavenly father
has as the Light of Christ to

539
00:31:03,208 --> 00:31:05,300
lead them to do, right?
And that's That's a conscience,

540
00:31:05,300 --> 00:31:07,000
right?
And depending on what you do

541
00:31:07,000 --> 00:31:09,800
with your life, you can you can
Divorce Yourself from that by

542
00:31:09,800 --> 00:31:12,200
degrees, but I'd like to ask you
a question.

543
00:31:13,500 --> 00:31:16,600
Have you ever had this, you
know, profoundly spiritual

544
00:31:16,600 --> 00:31:18,900
experiences?
And then once it's done, just

545
00:31:18,900 --> 00:31:22,000
like, Moses being on the mount
but he's left to himself and you

546
00:31:22,000 --> 00:31:24,700
just feel alone afterwards
either comes a point.

547
00:31:24,700 --> 00:31:27,700
Oh yeah, this experience.
You feel drained and you can't

548
00:31:27,700 --> 00:31:31,100
you had the spiritual eye at.
And dude, you just left and

549
00:31:31,100 --> 00:31:33,600
drain and you feel miserable and
then you don't feel the Holy

550
00:31:33,600 --> 00:31:35,100
Ghost and you wonder why?
Y-you know.

551
00:31:35,400 --> 00:31:38,100
And its that's what I'm the kind
of referring to even, you know,

552
00:31:38,100 --> 00:31:41,100
where your this is a test and
it's it should be short-lived

553
00:31:41,100 --> 00:31:43,800
normally, but God's, I'm
thinking that's the moment where

554
00:31:43,800 --> 00:31:47,400
God is saying, I'm just giving
you this Revelation, I'm just

555
00:31:47,400 --> 00:31:49,400
giving you this gift and I need
to see if you're going to walk

556
00:31:49,400 --> 00:31:51,500
up to it, you know.
Yeah.

557
00:31:51,500 --> 00:31:54,100
I think so.
I think, I think the other thing

558
00:31:54,100 --> 00:32:00,400
is and I've won your dis, if, if
discernment isn't a little bit

559
00:32:00,400 --> 00:32:03,900
of Light of Christ, coupled with
the work you've already done.

560
00:32:05,800 --> 00:32:11,100
So you've essentially matured to
a point at which you are so

561
00:32:11,100 --> 00:32:17,200
familiar with the truth, that
it's not just the absence of

562
00:32:17,200 --> 00:32:22,400
truth that sets you off, but the
recognition of its Counterpoint

563
00:32:22,600 --> 00:32:25,300
opposite that make sense it
does.

564
00:32:25,300 --> 00:32:28,900
And I think that lesson we learn
in what section 8 and section 9

565
00:32:28,900 --> 00:32:31,800
of the Doctrine and Covenants
where you know, Oliver cowdery

566
00:32:31,800 --> 00:32:33,800
sold.
You know you thought you thought

567
00:32:33,800 --> 00:32:36,000
you can take no thought Not
before but to ask me, but you

568
00:32:36,000 --> 00:32:39,700
need to study it out in your
mind to know, you know, then ask

569
00:32:39,700 --> 00:32:42,400
me, you know, and it's the same
thing, you know, there might be

570
00:32:42,400 --> 00:32:45,800
moments where you just get, I
you like the spirit.

571
00:32:46,100 --> 00:32:47,900
He's to tell you, something, you
like, and you would've been

572
00:32:47,900 --> 00:32:50,400
completely unprepared, and it's
no fault of your own and that

573
00:32:50,400 --> 00:32:53,100
you will get a revelation.
Like, right now that by K, this

574
00:32:53,100 --> 00:32:56,000
person is lying to you or or
what-have-you, right?

575
00:32:56,000 --> 00:32:59,200
Like there's those emergency
situations where you're a, all

576
00:32:59,200 --> 00:33:01,400
right?
But a lot of times we we need to

577
00:33:01,400 --> 00:33:04,500
prepare ourselves to buy study
and prayer and study.

578
00:33:04,700 --> 00:33:07,900
The truth so that we can you
know, see if someone's really

579
00:33:07,900 --> 00:33:10,400
trying to sell us you know snake
oil right?

580
00:33:11,100 --> 00:33:14,000
Yeah.
And to go along with that.

581
00:33:14,000 --> 00:33:19,500
I think if the spirit works with
the heart I've often thought

582
00:33:19,500 --> 00:33:21,800
discernment maybe works a lot
more.

583
00:33:23,400 --> 00:33:26,800
Appear with with your head a
little bit more to write because

584
00:33:26,800 --> 00:33:29,500
user who didn't the time to
study, you've put in the time,

585
00:33:29,500 --> 00:33:32,800
it takes to prepare yourself to
recognize truth.

586
00:33:33,200 --> 00:33:36,100
So that you can spot error a
mile away.

587
00:33:36,500 --> 00:33:40,300
And so, the other thing I think
it's worthwhile to mention here

588
00:33:40,300 --> 00:33:50,400
is this idea of Being able to.
Put that work in because it's

589
00:33:50,400 --> 00:33:53,400
because sometimes I think we get
to a point where we can excuse

590
00:33:53,400 --> 00:33:58,200
ourselves, like, I'm busy, I
don't have time for scripture

591
00:33:58,200 --> 00:34:01,700
study or prayer or any of those
other things and then you end up

592
00:34:01,700 --> 00:34:04,400
getting getting pulled off into
the weeds as well.

593
00:34:04,700 --> 00:34:07,800
Yeah, I think so too.
It's hard, man.

594
00:34:07,900 --> 00:34:11,600
It's a, that's the thing that's
the, that's the trial we're

595
00:34:11,600 --> 00:34:14,300
giving, you know, and it's
interesting because I remember

596
00:34:15,199 --> 00:34:18,000
learning, you know, when I was
trying to learn what the what,

597
00:34:18,199 --> 00:34:22,600
The spirit feel like, what does
the spirit sound like and as so

598
00:34:22,600 --> 00:34:24,300
hard to be in that position to
learn?

599
00:34:24,300 --> 00:34:26,300
Because then you're fearful of
making these mistakes?

600
00:34:26,300 --> 00:34:28,100
Write it like am I following the
spirit?

601
00:34:28,100 --> 00:34:31,300
You know, when I'm praying, I
want an answer, this question.

602
00:34:31,500 --> 00:34:34,699
And am I going to be judged if I
listened to the wrong Spirit,

603
00:34:34,699 --> 00:34:37,000
you know, I remember having
those questions with somebody,

604
00:34:37,000 --> 00:34:39,500
you know, all my mission and
there was a lady in one of the

605
00:34:39,500 --> 00:34:42,900
wards who, you know, I have this
discussion with him and it was

606
00:34:42,900 --> 00:34:45,900
pretty comforting her opinion
was, you know, obviously unless

607
00:34:45,900 --> 00:34:48,000
you're doing something truly
Wicked.

608
00:34:48,800 --> 00:34:50,900
The Lord will know your heart
when you're trying to learn what

609
00:34:50,900 --> 00:34:53,000
the spirit is.
And he's naughty, can't really

610
00:34:53,100 --> 00:34:56,400
condemn you for not knowing what
the sphere of feels like when

611
00:34:56,400 --> 00:34:59,200
your try when you're striving to
learn it right at first.

612
00:34:59,600 --> 00:35:01,600
Sure.
And so you have to kind of make

613
00:35:01,600 --> 00:35:04,800
a leap of faith and and you know
okay I'm going to make this

614
00:35:04,800 --> 00:35:09,800
decision and it kind of see how
it plays out and and Learn by it

615
00:35:09,800 --> 00:35:12,000
and then you're just going to
make mistakes as you try to

616
00:35:12,000 --> 00:35:14,200
identify what the holy ghost
sounds like I think.

617
00:35:16,200 --> 00:35:18,700
But the important thing is you
don't give up when you do Stop

618
00:35:19,000 --> 00:35:20,200
right.
Right.

619
00:35:20,200 --> 00:35:24,100
You know, the other thing I want
to talk about is this idea of

620
00:35:24,100 --> 00:35:29,300
testing that you brought up
where, you know, the Savior went

621
00:35:29,300 --> 00:35:31,900
through his experience, and
Moses went through his where,

622
00:35:32,500 --> 00:35:35,600
you know, and Moses I think is a
real good example of this.

623
00:35:35,900 --> 00:35:42,400
He gets this profound spiritual
manifestation and experience and

624
00:35:42,400 --> 00:35:44,900
then everything kind of goes
dark, right?

625
00:35:45,000 --> 00:35:47,900
Yeah, just kind of drained
can't.

626
00:35:48,100 --> 00:35:52,100
Can't can't probably can't think
much just wants to sit and just

627
00:35:52,100 --> 00:35:56,500
kind of be for a minute.
I think as we progress we can

628
00:35:56,500 --> 00:35:58,700
expect some of those tests,
right?

629
00:35:58,700 --> 00:36:00,500
Because we have to look at the
end goal.

630
00:36:00,600 --> 00:36:01,800
Right.
What's the end goal here?

631
00:36:01,800 --> 00:36:04,700
What is it?
We're doing here with the gospel

632
00:36:04,700 --> 00:36:06,900
wants to try to be as God is
someday.

633
00:36:08,100 --> 00:36:11,100
There's got to be checks and
tests along the way.

634
00:36:11,100 --> 00:36:14,000
Those are going to come.
Absolutely.

635
00:36:14,300 --> 00:36:17,500
How could you?
I'll give you a full power for

636
00:36:17,500 --> 00:36:20,300
that.
He With himself, if you haven't

637
00:36:20,300 --> 00:36:23,300
been tried and tested to be true
that you're going to use it in

638
00:36:23,300 --> 00:36:26,300
the way that he uses it.
Right, right.

639
00:36:26,600 --> 00:36:31,200
And and I think that discernment
that we gained through study

640
00:36:31,200 --> 00:36:37,800
prayer, recognizing the spirit,
all those things are Are just

641
00:36:37,800 --> 00:36:42,700
that they are the small baby
steps that we have to take to

642
00:36:42,700 --> 00:36:45,400
get to that position.
Yeah, I agree.

643
00:36:45,400 --> 00:36:47,000
And we're going to talk more
about that too.

644
00:36:47,000 --> 00:36:49,700
I think maybe we should let me.
I want to touch on a few things.

645
00:36:50,700 --> 00:36:52,900
Just read these, look at it real
quick.

646
00:36:53,000 --> 00:36:56,300
One thing I would like to say,
you know, so that we relate that

647
00:36:56,300 --> 00:37:00,200
the iron Rod is the word of God,
and sometimes we relate that,

648
00:37:00,200 --> 00:37:02,700
that's the scriptures.
The scriptures is the word of

649
00:37:02,700 --> 00:37:05,400
God.
I would very much say that the

650
00:37:05,400 --> 00:37:08,300
scriptures contain the word of
God, but they should not

651
00:37:08,300 --> 00:37:12,400
necessarily always be synonymous
with the word of God, right?

652
00:37:12,400 --> 00:37:16,100
And so you have different
sources of, you know, what, this

653
00:37:16,100 --> 00:37:18,900
iron Rod can be, what is the
word of God, you know, you know?

654
00:37:18,900 --> 00:37:22,500
So the the iron Rod is in the
scriptures because the word of

655
00:37:22,500 --> 00:37:25,800
God is found in the scriptures,
sometimes the iron Rod or the

656
00:37:25,800 --> 00:37:28,200
word of God is found in the
teachings of Joseph Smith and

657
00:37:28,200 --> 00:37:30,400
it's not written down anywhere
else besides the teachings of

658
00:37:30,400 --> 00:37:32,500
Joseph Smith, right?
Or the teachings of Brigham

659
00:37:32,500 --> 00:37:36,100
Young, you know and I have a
testimony of the you know that

660
00:37:36,100 --> 00:37:39,600
Brigham Young had.
Things that were absolutely the

661
00:37:39,600 --> 00:37:43,300
word of God, you know, and then
there's the revelations that

662
00:37:43,300 --> 00:37:44,800
you've had.
Personally, you know, that, you

663
00:37:44,800 --> 00:37:49,300
know, that you have to live true
to, you know, and those things

664
00:37:49,600 --> 00:37:52,800
are what you have to measure
against further Revelation, or

665
00:37:52,800 --> 00:37:55,200
inspiration that you can be
seeking so you're not to see.

666
00:37:56,000 --> 00:38:01,400
Absolutely.
You know, That's one of the

667
00:38:01,400 --> 00:38:04,600
things I loved about Mormonism.
Was this idea of we don't

668
00:38:04,600 --> 00:38:09,500
necessarily have a closed Canon
of scripture, right?

669
00:38:09,500 --> 00:38:13,600
Right there are subcategories to
what scripture is.

670
00:38:13,600 --> 00:38:17,900
You have, you know, the standard
works that are contained in your

671
00:38:17,900 --> 00:38:23,000
quad, you have sermons from
those early Brethren and you

672
00:38:23,000 --> 00:38:27,000
have your own personal
revelation, and so.

673
00:38:27,000 --> 00:38:31,300
So for Mormons this idea of a
close Cannon, Just really

674
00:38:31,300 --> 00:38:35,300
shouldn't shouldn't be a thing.
Know there's a, there's an

675
00:38:35,300 --> 00:38:38,600
anecdote and and this you know,
I think I've seen online, some

676
00:38:38,600 --> 00:38:40,900
of the doctrine of Christ people
will kind of get upset over

677
00:38:40,900 --> 00:38:43,000
this, you know, where there's an
anecdote with like, you know,

678
00:38:43,000 --> 00:38:45,900
Hiram gets up and said, you
know, in meeting says, you know,

679
00:38:45,900 --> 00:38:47,800
Hyrum Smith and he says, these
are the scriptures.

680
00:38:47,800 --> 00:38:49,700
And these are the standard works
of the church.

681
00:38:49,700 --> 00:38:51,900
And this is what you'll be
judged by blah, blah blah.

682
00:38:52,100 --> 00:38:54,400
And then Joseph Smith asks
Brigham to get up and he says

683
00:38:54,400 --> 00:38:58,300
he's, you know, and also the
Oracles of God, you know, also

684
00:38:58,300 --> 00:39:00,200
those by that will be judged
also.

685
00:39:00,800 --> 00:39:02,300
Hiram gets up and says I'm
sorry.

686
00:39:02,300 --> 00:39:05,400
I am, you know, I was negligent
and I did not mean to be

687
00:39:05,400 --> 00:39:08,300
negligent in mentioning the
living oracle's as well.

688
00:39:08,300 --> 00:39:11,100
Right?
And but here's a, here's the

689
00:39:11,100 --> 00:39:13,300
thing, though, with living
oracle's, you can take that too

690
00:39:13,300 --> 00:39:16,400
far to you can do needs to be
balanced, you?

691
00:39:16,400 --> 00:39:17,600
Yep.
They're guys used to be

692
00:39:17,600 --> 00:39:18,800
balanced.
And I don't know if I mention

693
00:39:18,800 --> 00:39:22,500
that in this.
I think I did later in this

694
00:39:22,500 --> 00:39:24,800
talk, and if it wasn't, it
wasn't a different talk.

695
00:39:24,800 --> 00:39:28,800
That I gave relatively recently,
but you can't justify going

696
00:39:28,800 --> 00:39:34,100
against the scriptures.
With with live with living

697
00:39:34,100 --> 00:39:38,100
oracle's or against other living
oracle's, you know, you know,

698
00:39:38,100 --> 00:39:40,700
otherwise you are going to run
into this, you know, you got to

699
00:39:40,707 --> 00:39:43,400
pick or choose, you know, but
the spirit of the Lord is the

700
00:39:43,400 --> 00:39:45,500
same.
What you God is the same

701
00:39:45,500 --> 00:39:49,000
yesterday today and forever.
And so it really just, you know,

702
00:39:49,300 --> 00:39:51,400
it comes down to, are you
worshiping the right daughters?

703
00:39:52,100 --> 00:39:54,400
You know, is what it comes down
to eventually.

704
00:39:54,800 --> 00:39:56,900
Well, if you have a right
understanding of his character

705
00:39:56,900 --> 00:40:00,700
and attributes, Yeah, and I
think you bring up a good point,

706
00:40:00,700 --> 00:40:03,500
right?
Because whether they be words of

707
00:40:03,500 --> 00:40:08,200
a prophet with the words of a
prophet, they should, they

708
00:40:08,200 --> 00:40:12,800
should never contradict the
scriptures right now.

709
00:40:13,300 --> 00:40:17,200
There may be times where we
perceive a contradiction and

710
00:40:17,200 --> 00:40:21,200
that requires us to study deeper
and harder to find out how they

711
00:40:21,800 --> 00:40:25,500
they mesh.
But I would say this if you ever

712
00:40:25,500 --> 00:40:29,800
had a leader that said something
that was in Pleat contradiction

713
00:40:30,100 --> 00:40:34,400
and after a good long thorough
study, you can't get those two

714
00:40:34,400 --> 00:40:38,600
principles to line up.
That's why the scriptures are

715
00:40:38,600 --> 00:40:40,700
there.
That's why there's just a moment

716
00:40:41,000 --> 00:40:45,200
that's why there's holy the Holy
Ghost so that you can check

717
00:40:45,900 --> 00:40:50,100
constantly in this Mortal coil
that we're all going through.

718
00:40:51,900 --> 00:40:56,900
Yeah, there's a lie can put this
well, but it's just like, Moroni

719
00:40:56,900 --> 00:40:58,000
Mormon say in the Book of
Mormon, right?

720
00:40:58,000 --> 00:41:00,300
If these things, if there are
errors in these things, that's

721
00:41:00,300 --> 00:41:03,200
the errors of men, right?
And so, they acknowledge right

722
00:41:03,200 --> 00:41:06,300
off the bat, there's going to be
translation problems, you know,

723
00:41:06,300 --> 00:41:08,600
or engraving problems, even, you
know.

724
00:41:08,700 --> 00:41:11,900
So there's you know, if you can
be so nuanced Sandeep cynical or

725
00:41:11,900 --> 00:41:15,200
whatever, you know, if you have
you know, something like the

726
00:41:15,700 --> 00:41:20,700
Book of Mormon with potential
scribal errors and then the

727
00:41:20,700 --> 00:41:23,800
filter Of Revelation to
someone's understanding at the

728
00:41:23,800 --> 00:41:27,700
moment.
You have certain things that you

729
00:41:27,700 --> 00:41:30,200
know maybe with further
Revelation, could have been

730
00:41:30,200 --> 00:41:31,900
tweaked over there.
And you see that with Joseph

731
00:41:31,900 --> 00:41:35,600
Smith, changing some things in
the Book of Mormon in later

732
00:41:35,600 --> 00:41:40,300
Publications or on the Doctrine
and Covenants, you know, as more

733
00:41:40,300 --> 00:41:44,000
light and knowledge has given
people people like to take on

734
00:41:44,000 --> 00:41:45,700
certain things like the lectures
on faith.

735
00:41:45,700 --> 00:41:48,500
It shows that there's only two
gods in the godhead and the Holy

736
00:41:48,500 --> 00:41:53,800
Ghost is just the mind and will
of Of the father and the son and

737
00:41:53,800 --> 00:41:56,800
so they harp on this thing.
That Mormonism is departed from

738
00:41:56,900 --> 00:42:00,900
Joseph's original Doctrine which
was actually, you know, that

739
00:42:00,900 --> 00:42:05,100
there's one God or that there's
a to God, you know, you know,

740
00:42:05,200 --> 00:42:08,800
system with the godhead And I
don't like you're saying, I

741
00:42:08,800 --> 00:42:11,700
think that you can come to those
conclusions if you're not

742
00:42:11,700 --> 00:42:15,700
studying pretty well, you know,
well enough because I think the

743
00:42:15,700 --> 00:42:18,600
lectures on faith are absolutely
beautiful for taking that as an

744
00:42:18,600 --> 00:42:22,800
example and I see nothing wrong
with what it said there.

745
00:42:22,800 --> 00:42:25,800
Because there are two
percentages in the godhead, you

746
00:42:25,800 --> 00:42:28,600
know?
And you know as Tabernacle,

747
00:42:28,800 --> 00:42:31,700
right?
And it's even more interesting

748
00:42:31,800 --> 00:42:34,800
on a psychological level.
What he says about the Holy

749
00:42:34,800 --> 00:42:37,400
Ghost.
I'm a big fan of psychology.

750
00:42:37,400 --> 00:42:40,000
That was probably my favorite
subject to study in school

751
00:42:41,400 --> 00:42:43,700
because it involves the mind,
right.

752
00:42:43,700 --> 00:42:47,900
The study of the mind and to say
that the Holy Ghost is the mind

753
00:42:48,400 --> 00:42:51,800
and the will that's shared
between the father and the son.

754
00:42:52,100 --> 00:42:55,900
And that's the Holy Ghost.
That's saying very esoterically

755
00:42:56,300 --> 00:43:00,100
if you were to get your will and
your mind aligned with the

756
00:43:00,100 --> 00:43:02,400
father and the son, you could be
the Holy Ghost.

757
00:43:03,300 --> 00:43:06,300
You would have the Holy Ghost in
you and what is Joseph Smith?

758
00:43:06,300 --> 00:43:10,000
Say, in the king Follett
discourse, you know I have the

759
00:43:10,000 --> 00:43:12,900
oldest book in the world and I
know more than all the other

760
00:43:12,900 --> 00:43:16,100
professors of religion or the
Holy Ghost does anyhow and I

761
00:43:16,107 --> 00:43:18,600
will associate myself with him.
Right.

762
00:43:19,500 --> 00:43:22,500
Right, right.
Yeah.

763
00:43:22,500 --> 00:43:25,300
No.
That's that's very profound and

764
00:43:25,300 --> 00:43:30,700
and that, you know, can lead
into things like Joseph's

765
00:43:30,700 --> 00:43:32,900
pre-existence.
And that sort of thing that will

766
00:43:32,900 --> 00:43:34,700
just leave.
Esoteric at the mall.

767
00:43:34,700 --> 00:43:35,400
No.
Sure.

768
00:43:36,200 --> 00:43:38,800
You know.
But yeah, the other thing that I

769
00:43:38,800 --> 00:43:43,600
think we need to realize is that
Because this kind of ties in

770
00:43:43,600 --> 00:43:48,600
with what you were saying there
is that in this mortar Mortal

771
00:43:49,200 --> 00:43:55,000
realm that we live in on this
Mortal sphere, we are giving the

772
00:43:55,000 --> 00:44:02,600
opportunity and small portions.
To do every single work that the

773
00:44:02,600 --> 00:44:05,700
godhead does, right?
Absolutely.

774
00:44:06,100 --> 00:44:11,400
You know as as a testator or or
what not testifying of Christ

775
00:44:11,400 --> 00:44:14,600
testifying of the father.
Those are the works of the

776
00:44:14,600 --> 00:44:16,400
spirit.
Yes.

777
00:44:16,600 --> 00:44:21,200
To be saviors on Mount.
Zion doing your your your temple

778
00:44:21,200 --> 00:44:24,700
work, your genealogy.
Getting those things that you

779
00:44:24,700 --> 00:44:28,700
get to engage with the savior in
Salvation.

780
00:44:29,100 --> 00:44:30,700
Of work.
Yeah.

781
00:44:30,700 --> 00:44:35,700
And then finally, having
children whether adopted or

782
00:44:36,300 --> 00:44:42,100
naturally you get to participate
in the work of the father and I

783
00:44:42,100 --> 00:44:44,200
would say no.
Absolutely, right sure.

784
00:44:44,300 --> 00:44:50,300
And so we have everything within
the gospel to prepare us for

785
00:44:50,300 --> 00:44:53,400
those roles and there will be
further tutoring on the other

786
00:44:53,400 --> 00:44:58,300
side and other things we must do
I get that but I think it's

787
00:44:58,300 --> 00:45:00,700
important to realize Lies that
we have that now.

788
00:45:01,100 --> 00:45:05,500
And with that, I think there's
some responsibility to nurture

789
00:45:05,500 --> 00:45:10,800
this gift of discernment that we
have, because how we decide to

790
00:45:10,800 --> 00:45:18,500
exercise, Being able to help out
and that work of the, the holy

791
00:45:18,500 --> 00:45:22,100
ghost in the Son.
And the father that carries huge

792
00:45:22,100 --> 00:45:25,200
repercussions that echo through
the eternities.

793
00:45:25,800 --> 00:45:30,800
So discernment ties in very
closely in his very much needed

794
00:45:30,800 --> 00:45:35,100
when exercising those roles.
So to speak when you when you

795
00:45:35,100 --> 00:45:38,600
think of the savior's on Mount
Zion in particular you know you

796
00:45:38,600 --> 00:45:42,200
are affecting the Jenny the
future Jenny ology and progeny

797
00:45:42,300 --> 00:45:45,200
of M.
Generations of gods that have

798
00:45:45,200 --> 00:45:50,000
already come into existence and
you are the link between the

799
00:45:50,000 --> 00:45:55,300
past and the future and all, you
know, we are coming to a point

800
00:45:55,300 --> 00:45:58,500
where we are trying to obtain
the privilege of perpetuating,

801
00:45:58,500 --> 00:46:02,200
there's feces.
And and so they are very

802
00:46:02,200 --> 00:46:06,200
invested in us and doing our
work here because it allows them

803
00:46:06,200 --> 00:46:10,800
to have these Eternal lives to
reproduce through us, you know,

804
00:46:10,800 --> 00:46:13,400
and we get to be in their place
and so forth and so on.

805
00:46:13,400 --> 00:46:15,100
So on, and so yeah, to be a
savior on Mount.

806
00:46:15,100 --> 00:46:18,300
Zion is to do this, this
salvific work, where we are

807
00:46:18,400 --> 00:46:21,200
allowing our brothers and
sisters, who died without the

808
00:46:21,200 --> 00:46:24,800
gospel to be joint, heirs with
us, as Christ has allowed us to

809
00:46:24,800 --> 00:46:27,500
be joint heirs.
And if you know, anyone

810
00:46:27,500 --> 00:46:29,400
listening, you know, Angie you
day.

811
00:46:29,400 --> 00:46:33,500
I would recommend mediation and
atonement by John Taylor, you

812
00:46:33,500 --> 00:46:37,300
know, that there is some
wonderful things about the

813
00:46:37,300 --> 00:46:42,200
godhead, and, and our place with
our relationship with that.

814
00:46:42,200 --> 00:46:47,000
And that Absolutely love.
I want to say just tell a quick

815
00:46:47,000 --> 00:46:52,300
story about sure about this so
often we hear the phrase.

816
00:46:53,200 --> 00:46:58,200
One person can't make a
difference and I remember,

817
00:46:59,800 --> 00:47:01,800
right?
Right after I received my

818
00:47:01,800 --> 00:47:07,200
Endowment in the LDS church, I
stay Temple Night had rolled

819
00:47:07,200 --> 00:47:11,700
around and they said, hey, you
know, I have this, this kind of

820
00:47:11,700 --> 00:47:15,900
mentor.
Sure, in his first name was Dawn

821
00:47:15,900 --> 00:47:19,200
and I'll leave it at that and
Don called me up.

822
00:47:19,200 --> 00:47:23,000
And he's like, hey, are you
going to the temple night?

823
00:47:23,000 --> 00:47:27,100
And I'm like, dude, I just work,
you know, like, 14 hours.

824
00:47:27,500 --> 00:47:30,900
I got a little bit of school.
I got to finish up and he's

825
00:47:30,900 --> 00:47:33,000
like, that's fine.
It's not like you're affecting

826
00:47:33,000 --> 00:47:35,000
anybody salvation?
You do you?

827
00:47:35,500 --> 00:47:43,500
I was like, oh, well, let me
just go take a shower and put on

828
00:47:43,500 --> 00:47:45,100
a tie.
I'm on my way.

829
00:47:45,300 --> 00:47:48,500
So no pressure in that
whatsoever, right?

830
00:47:50,300 --> 00:47:55,200
He laid it down on it, it hit me
hard, but I am so thankful for

831
00:47:55,200 --> 00:47:59,300
that because that taught me earn
that moment that you know what?

832
00:47:59,400 --> 00:48:03,500
Sometimes there's no substitute
for you just being there.

833
00:48:04,000 --> 00:48:07,400
Sometimes your best ability, is
your availability and I really

834
00:48:07,400 --> 00:48:10,600
believe that, and it really does
apply to the gospel as well.

835
00:48:12,200 --> 00:48:14,500
Let's see if there was anything
else.

836
00:48:14,500 --> 00:48:18,700
I wanted to comment on I think I
just like to recap.

837
00:48:18,700 --> 00:48:21,100
So yeah.
So Brigham says the any spirit

838
00:48:21,100 --> 00:48:24,300
that does not confess that
Joseph Smith lived and died a

839
00:48:24,308 --> 00:48:26,700
prophet is Antichrist.
You know?

840
00:48:26,700 --> 00:48:28,100
And that's a that's a measuring
stick up.

841
00:48:28,100 --> 00:48:31,500
Taken for myself or I believe
that Joseph Smith lived and died

842
00:48:31,600 --> 00:48:34,100
a prophet of God, that all the
revelations, we have to him to

843
00:48:34,100 --> 00:48:36,600
the end of his life.
There was no dark Revelations.

844
00:48:36,800 --> 00:48:39,000
He says at the end of his life
that you know, I had no dark

845
00:48:39,000 --> 00:48:41,200
Revelations.
Now we have this movement out

846
00:48:41,400 --> 00:48:43,300
Out there.
That's polygamy denial and all

847
00:48:43,300 --> 00:48:45,700
these things, you know.
So they will you know say oh of

848
00:48:45,700 --> 00:48:47,800
course I believe Joseph was a
prophet, but he didn't teach

849
00:48:47,800 --> 00:48:51,100
polygamy, you know, that's, you
know, you can believe that if

850
00:48:51,100 --> 00:48:53,700
you want, I think that's
ignorant and we're not gonna,

851
00:48:53,700 --> 00:48:56,000
We're Not Gonna touch into that.
I don't think we need to.

852
00:48:56,100 --> 00:48:57,700
I'll let other people fight that
battle.

853
00:48:58,800 --> 00:49:03,100
But Joe Joseph Smith laid down a
pattern for us to follow at the

854
00:49:03,100 --> 00:49:04,600
end of his life that I think was
inspired.

855
00:49:04,600 --> 00:49:08,300
And that comes that that's an
important thing that we're going

856
00:49:08,300 --> 00:49:11,500
to pick up on in a bit.
But this thing, this Is

857
00:49:11,500 --> 00:49:14,300
measuring stick that Brigham
gives us is a paraphrase of

858
00:49:14,300 --> 00:49:15,200
John.
Right?

859
00:49:15,300 --> 00:49:18,200
Ray says that, there are false
spirits in the world, there's

860
00:49:18,200 --> 00:49:21,100
false prophets in the world and
he says, here's a key.

861
00:49:21,100 --> 00:49:23,200
For you.
Every spirit that confesses that

862
00:49:23,200 --> 00:49:27,500
Jesus Christ is come in, the
flesh is of God and a spirit

863
00:49:27,500 --> 00:49:30,300
that does not confess that Jesus
Christ is come in, the flesh is

864
00:49:30,300 --> 00:49:32,700
not of God, you know, it's
Antichrist.

865
00:49:32,900 --> 00:49:35,300
And so it's like, how do you
understand that today?

866
00:49:35,300 --> 00:49:37,000
You know, I would ask you that
day.

867
00:49:37,000 --> 00:49:39,800
If it's kind of a trick question
but you've also read the paper.

868
00:49:39,800 --> 00:49:41,900
So you know.
But how does That translate

869
00:49:41,900 --> 00:49:43,800
today or what should you get out
of that?

870
00:49:44,600 --> 00:49:49,300
Well, I think so.
I like what Brigham said there.

871
00:49:49,400 --> 00:49:54,800
I really, really do.
But I think this is something

872
00:49:54,800 --> 00:49:57,400
that I shouldn't say he didn't
see coming.

873
00:49:57,900 --> 00:50:02,100
I think this is something that
Brigham may have been unfamiliar

874
00:50:02,100 --> 00:50:10,100
with its time which is this idea
of remaking Joseph Smith, right?

875
00:50:10,700 --> 00:50:13,800
And so My takeaway when I was
reading that was this.

876
00:50:15,500 --> 00:50:20,900
You are going to have to get so
well grounded in the truth.

877
00:50:21,900 --> 00:50:25,500
And you are going to need the
gift of discernment every step

878
00:50:25,500 --> 00:50:28,000
of the way.
So that when someone comes to

879
00:50:28,000 --> 00:50:32,200
you with a different Joseph
Smith, or a different Jesus, you

880
00:50:32,200 --> 00:50:36,700
can say that's counterfeit.
So that's what I got from those.

881
00:50:36,900 --> 00:50:38,700
Yeah.
And so I'm about to give the

882
00:50:38,700 --> 00:50:41,600
historical context because I
gave that in the talk regarding

883
00:50:41,600 --> 00:50:44,700
this verse and it's like you're
saying, I even bring him Stephen

884
00:50:44,700 --> 00:50:47,500
this key that he gives while
applicable his day because

885
00:50:47,500 --> 00:50:49,700
they're dealing with the
reorganized church and the

886
00:50:49,700 --> 00:50:52,500
denial, you know, but they
weren't really dealing with what

887
00:50:52,500 --> 00:50:54,500
we're dealing today.
It's a certain things need to be

888
00:50:54,500 --> 00:50:58,000
recalibrated.
So I continued my saying.

889
00:50:58,500 --> 00:51:00,600
So how do we test or try the
spirits?

890
00:51:00,600 --> 00:51:03,200
We are told in the Doctrine and
Covenants, that there are many

891
00:51:03,200 --> 00:51:06,300
false Spirits in our day, as
well as them Brigham, Young

892
00:51:06,300 --> 00:51:09,100
updated, the measuring stick.
Because in our day, we have many

893
00:51:09,100 --> 00:51:12,400
sectarian Christians who would
be happy to tell us that Jesus

894
00:51:12,400 --> 00:51:14,800
Christ came in the flesh but
that does not mean that they are

895
00:51:14,808 --> 00:51:17,500
telling you the truth or giving
you the fullness of the Gospel

896
00:51:17,800 --> 00:51:21,000
right II.
I served in the midwest.

897
00:51:21,000 --> 00:51:22,500
Do I ever wanted?
Protestant.

898
00:51:23,000 --> 00:51:26,600
And they this this thing that
John in the epistle.

899
00:51:26,600 --> 00:51:29,800
Yeah, he's telling you, they
will seek by that because

900
00:51:29,800 --> 00:51:32,500
they'll tell you, that Mormons
are teaching a false counterfeit

901
00:51:32,500 --> 00:51:36,300
gospel, but they'll tell you,
that Jesus was born died and

902
00:51:36,300 --> 00:51:38,700
resurrected.
So how does this get

903
00:51:38,700 --> 00:51:42,200
recalibrated, right?
So, what did John mean when he

904
00:51:42,200 --> 00:51:45,400
wrote this to the Saints?
His advice is very critical for

905
00:51:45,400 --> 00:51:48,400
us to understand and it's
context, but a face value.

906
00:51:48,400 --> 00:51:50,200
It doesn't seem to pertain to
the world.

907
00:51:50,200 --> 00:51:54,200
We are now in The problem, the
saints were facing at the time

908
00:51:54,200 --> 00:51:56,000
involved, various groups of
people.

909
00:51:56,000 --> 00:51:59,700
We now call gnostics and I'd be
happy to tell you why they were

910
00:51:59,700 --> 00:52:02,300
one of the principal causes of
the great apostasy.

911
00:52:02,400 --> 00:52:04,800
Because that does pertain to the
time that we are in.

912
00:52:04,900 --> 00:52:07,300
The gnostics were a group or
groups.

913
00:52:07,300 --> 00:52:10,400
They were groups of people who
claim to have secret knowledge.

914
00:52:10,500 --> 00:52:14,200
Gnosis means knowledge.
Essentially, they claimed that

915
00:52:14,200 --> 00:52:17,900
the Apostles of Jesus Christ had
given them secret knowledge.

916
00:52:18,000 --> 00:52:20,700
That was necessary for
enlightenment that, which would

917
00:52:20,700 --> 00:52:23,000
essentially guess One into the
presence of God.

918
00:52:23,200 --> 00:52:26,000
And by doing this, the gnostics
were laying a claim to

919
00:52:26,000 --> 00:52:28,300
Authority.
Essentially laying a claim to

920
00:52:28,300 --> 00:52:32,800
keys that was that were given to
them without having to claim

921
00:52:32,800 --> 00:52:36,100
ordination.
And so there's no three stood

922
00:52:36,100 --> 00:52:39,100
line of authority, but we have
the knowledge, we have the

923
00:52:39,100 --> 00:52:43,400
endowment, we can, you know, we
can show you the keys that you

924
00:52:43,400 --> 00:52:48,200
need to get back into God's
presence, and that was the key,

925
00:52:48,400 --> 00:52:51,500
that was The Leverage that they
use to get.

926
00:52:51,600 --> 00:52:56,300
Get into the church and get
followings and begin to subvert,

927
00:52:56,300 --> 00:53:00,700
right?
And the gnostics had elements of

928
00:53:00,700 --> 00:53:02,700
Truth, you know?
And one of the early Christian

929
00:53:02,700 --> 00:53:04,500
writers explain.
And I don't remember which one

930
00:53:04,500 --> 00:53:05,800
it was.
It might have been hearin, a.s.,

931
00:53:05,800 --> 00:53:08,800
or origin or whoever.
You know what he says that they

932
00:53:08,800 --> 00:53:12,800
mixed wine was poisoned.
So you got the good and the bad,

933
00:53:12,800 --> 00:53:16,100
you know, you make some truth
with some are you apply the

934
00:53:16,100 --> 00:53:19,700
philosophies of men to
understand the scripture verses

935
00:53:19,700 --> 00:53:21,500
understand and then the
scripture to the hole.

936
00:53:21,700 --> 00:53:25,000
Go straight.
And then they would begin to

937
00:53:25,000 --> 00:53:28,900
spiritualize things that were
meant to be literal.

938
00:53:29,200 --> 00:53:31,700
And this is very interesting and
I'll go off on a tangent here.

939
00:53:32,900 --> 00:53:36,100
You know, for example, the
resurrection was not a literal

940
00:53:36,100 --> 00:53:40,600
Resurrection, it was a
attaining, a higher self, right?

941
00:53:40,600 --> 00:53:43,300
You're raising your ear free or
frequency.

942
00:53:43,300 --> 00:53:45,700
You're a you know you're going
to a higher plane, you're

943
00:53:45,700 --> 00:53:48,800
opening your third eye whatever.
Yeah, that's the resurrection of

944
00:53:48,800 --> 00:53:51,400
the Soul, you're getting to a
higher plane but it's not a

945
00:53:51,600 --> 00:53:53,000
Literal resurrection of the
body.

946
00:53:53,000 --> 00:53:55,500
And so these things, the
gnostics began to explain away

947
00:53:55,500 --> 00:53:59,100
certain things because they
believe through Greek philosophy

948
00:53:59,100 --> 00:54:02,800
that the Corporal or corporeal
world, the temporal world that

949
00:54:02,800 --> 00:54:06,600
we live in, which is made of
matter, was inherently evil.

950
00:54:07,100 --> 00:54:11,000
And so that at his face is very
opposed to Mormon Doctrine

951
00:54:11,000 --> 00:54:15,200
because we have received the
Revelation through Joseph Smith.

952
00:54:15,500 --> 00:54:19,300
That is actually a union of
spirit matter and temporal

953
00:54:19,300 --> 00:54:23,700
matter together that create The
Eternal Felicity and endless joy

954
00:54:23,700 --> 00:54:26,100
and you need that, that
Resurrection to obtain that

955
00:54:26,100 --> 00:54:27,900
state.
But matter isn't inherently

956
00:54:27,900 --> 00:54:31,800
evil, it's just crude
essentially, right?

957
00:54:31,800 --> 00:54:35,100
But we have to go through this
refining process, but we can't

958
00:54:35,100 --> 00:54:38,200
be perfect without it.
And so the gnostics didn't

959
00:54:38,200 --> 00:54:40,300
believe in stuff in a literal
Resurrection.

960
00:54:40,300 --> 00:54:43,100
So, how could they believe in a
Christ that was resurrected,

961
00:54:43,300 --> 00:54:44,700
right?
And because, and then in a

962
00:54:44,707 --> 00:54:48,900
universal reservation because
they wouldn't want to be you.

963
00:54:48,900 --> 00:54:52,800
They believed that there was an
ethereal God, you know what that

964
00:54:52,800 --> 00:54:56,900
with you know I'm getting ahead
of myself but if you remove from

965
00:54:56,900 --> 00:55:00,300
the presence of this bodiless
God and be trapped in a body

966
00:55:00,900 --> 00:55:03,400
would be going backwards to the
way that they viewed life.

967
00:55:04,600 --> 00:55:05,300
Right.
You know?

968
00:55:05,400 --> 00:55:07,500
And so it's interesting.
You see it, you see these

969
00:55:07,500 --> 00:55:10,800
breadcrumb Trails throughout the
scriptures, you see it in the

970
00:55:10,800 --> 00:55:15,400
Epistle of Peter, you see it in
Jude, you see it in John and my

971
00:55:15,400 --> 00:55:18,800
favorite stuff, you know, off
top my head when Peters talking

972
00:55:18,800 --> 00:55:22,500
about these guys.
He says we have not because

973
00:55:22,500 --> 00:55:24,700
because they're twisting the
interpretation of scripture,

974
00:55:24,700 --> 00:55:26,900
right?
And he says, we have not

975
00:55:26,900 --> 00:55:29,200
followed cunningly devised
fables.

976
00:55:29,700 --> 00:55:33,600
We were eyewitnesses of the
Majesty of Our Lord on the Mount

977
00:55:33,600 --> 00:55:36,100
of transfiguration.
That's in second Peter chapter

978
00:55:36,100 --> 00:55:38,200
2.
We were eyewitnesses.

979
00:55:38,600 --> 00:55:41,800
We heard the voice from Heaven
saying, this is my beloved Son,

980
00:55:41,800 --> 00:55:45,100
hear him and he says in there
will come scoffers and

981
00:55:45,100 --> 00:55:48,900
disbelievers and tell you that
the flood never happened you

982
00:55:48,900 --> 00:55:53,200
know, in the last days and so
when you when you see that

983
00:55:53,200 --> 00:55:56,600
that's what was happening and
you co because these gnostics

984
00:55:56,600 --> 00:56:00,400
came in and they're there their
reasoning away, the literalness

985
00:56:00,400 --> 00:56:04,600
of the history of the scriptures
in order to, you know, Get their

986
00:56:04,600 --> 00:56:08,300
own following, you know?
But Peter is saying look, I

987
00:56:08,300 --> 00:56:11,500
walked on water.
I you know, I I've seen the

988
00:56:11,500 --> 00:56:15,500
Lord, you know, he's a real
promises and even a who was it,

989
00:56:16,000 --> 00:56:19,000
was it a clement?
Climate was one of the early

990
00:56:19,000 --> 00:56:23,100
church fathers.
He was raised in Rome and Hugh

991
00:56:23,100 --> 00:56:25,200
Nibley and some of his Works
likes to talk about plemons

992
00:56:25,200 --> 00:56:29,000
experience where he was
completely unsatisfied by the

993
00:56:29,000 --> 00:56:31,700
philosophies of all the
different schools of philosophy

994
00:56:31,700 --> 00:56:34,200
in Rome even access to
everything Acts.

995
00:56:34,400 --> 00:56:39,000
Every kind of thought or Dogma
or whatever and he wanted to

996
00:56:39,000 --> 00:56:42,400
know was there life after death
and he'd go study with one

997
00:56:42,400 --> 00:56:47,100
person and another and it'd be
really happy when yo, one

998
00:56:47,100 --> 00:56:49,400
philosopher could say I can
prove to you, there's life after

999
00:56:49,400 --> 00:56:53,000
death and then he'd be really
sad when another guy would tell

1000
00:56:53,000 --> 00:56:54,700
honestly, I can disprove
everything he just said and I

1001
00:56:54,700 --> 00:56:57,200
can tell you why there's no life
after death and he was just

1002
00:56:57,200 --> 00:57:01,800
being, he's juggled around.
And then one day he saw was a

1003
00:57:01,800 --> 00:57:04,900
Barnabas.
It was Barnabas the So preaching

1004
00:57:04,900 --> 00:57:09,500
in Rome and he heard his
testimony and he said, I knew,

1005
00:57:10,200 --> 00:57:13,200
you know, I know there's life
after death because I've seen

1006
00:57:13,200 --> 00:57:16,000
it, I've seen it in a man named
Jesus Christ.

1007
00:57:16,100 --> 00:57:19,700
Who was, who was crucified.
He had to redeem us and he rose

1008
00:57:19,700 --> 00:57:22,200
from the grave and I can tell
you that there's life after

1009
00:57:22,200 --> 00:57:24,100
death.
And so Clement goes and grabs

1010
00:57:24,100 --> 00:57:26,400
Barnabas and takes him into his
house.

1011
00:57:26,800 --> 00:57:29,800
And like you gotta tell me more,
you gotta tell me more about

1012
00:57:29,800 --> 00:57:33,600
this, you know I think what
we're seeing here.

1013
00:57:34,200 --> 00:57:39,300
Even even in this early day with
the gnostics is it again?

1014
00:57:41,000 --> 00:57:44,600
A different Jesus, right?
This is a Jesus.

1015
00:57:44,800 --> 00:57:48,600
That is an ascended Master,
right?

1016
00:57:48,700 --> 00:57:56,500
He is one who whose Resurrection
was simply attaining a higher, a

1017
00:57:56,500 --> 00:57:59,500
higher free phase of life,
right?

1018
00:57:59,500 --> 00:58:01,900
Total awareness.
That's what, that's what this

1019
00:58:01,900 --> 00:58:05,700
Resurrection is.
That's a much different Jesus

1020
00:58:05,700 --> 00:58:10,300
than the Jesus that bled from
every pore in the garden.

1021
00:58:10,800 --> 00:58:15,200
Absolutely took upon him, the
sins of the world that was

1022
00:58:15,200 --> 00:58:21,300
beaten with stripes that was
crucified mercilessly.

1023
00:58:22,600 --> 00:58:27,000
Buried or entombed and then came
forward.

1024
00:58:28,300 --> 00:58:31,500
That's a different Jesus entire
and that's interesting because

1025
00:58:31,500 --> 00:58:34,800
you know, the Bible wasn't
standardized as it is now in

1026
00:58:34,800 --> 00:58:38,600
those days and so they wouldn't
have to deal with, you know, we

1027
00:58:38,600 --> 00:58:39,700
don't want, you know, what is it
Luke?

1028
00:58:39,700 --> 00:58:42,300
That says, he's sweat.
Great drops of blood blood.

1029
00:58:42,300 --> 00:58:45,000
They wouldn't have to accept
that right as cat has Cannon to

1030
00:58:45,000 --> 00:58:47,800
them and they can, yeah, we
don't have to worry about that,

1031
00:58:47,800 --> 00:58:50,300
right?
So it's interesting, it's very

1032
00:58:50,300 --> 00:58:53,500
interesting thing, but yeah, we
I love how you put that, you

1033
00:58:53,500 --> 00:58:56,400
know, this we believe in a
savior that literally suffered

1034
00:58:56,900 --> 00:59:00,300
and how could he know Know how
to sell, how, how would he know

1035
00:59:00,300 --> 00:59:03,900
how to, you know, help us if he
didn't take on our sins and our

1036
00:59:03,900 --> 00:59:07,100
problems and our pains, how
would he know, you know, and it

1037
00:59:07,400 --> 00:59:09,900
forms that relationship that
gives us the grace.

1038
00:59:09,900 --> 00:59:13,600
You know, that we need to repent
of our sins, you know?

1039
00:59:15,000 --> 00:59:16,400
Yeah, yeah.
No exactly.

1040
00:59:16,400 --> 00:59:18,000
Right.
And it's Insidious.

1041
00:59:18,000 --> 00:59:20,200
Right?
Because we see this now we've

1042
00:59:20,200 --> 00:59:24,900
seen this for quite a while.
I remember if you make one old

1043
00:59:24,900 --> 00:59:27,300
joke when I say this.
So help me Michael.

1044
00:59:28,000 --> 00:59:30,300
Anyway.
Clear back in the 90s I can

1045
00:59:30,300 --> 00:59:33,100
remember hearing these arguments
and they may be even older than

1046
00:59:33,100 --> 00:59:36,600
that right where I give G.
You know, people would say I did

1047
00:59:36,600 --> 00:59:39,100
Jesus, he was a really good
philosopher.

1048
00:59:39,100 --> 00:59:42,900
He was a really good teacher but
I'm not sure I can buy this

1049
00:59:42,900 --> 00:59:49,800
whole savior of the world thing.
All of these things boil down to

1050
00:59:50,500 --> 00:59:53,100
what Jesus are you following?
Yeah?

1051
00:59:53,300 --> 00:59:56,700
What Joseph Smith do you
espouse?

1052
00:59:57,800 --> 01:00:02,500
And what Brigham Young and John
Taylor. do you feel was real

1053
01:00:03,100 --> 01:00:08,800
because all those things are
going to have to Trigger.

1054
01:00:08,800 --> 01:00:12,900
Some discernment to figure out
which ones because the Snuffer

1055
01:00:12,900 --> 01:00:16,600
writes, the the the doctrine of
Christ movement.

1056
01:00:18,700 --> 01:00:22,300
Various other offshoots German.
They'll be more, they'll be

1057
01:00:22,300 --> 01:00:25,000
countless, they'll be, they'll
be countless more were promised

1058
01:00:25,000 --> 01:00:26,800
that, right?
False prophets everywhere.

1059
01:00:27,400 --> 01:00:32,300
So, we had better get real
comfortable real fast.

1060
01:00:32,400 --> 01:00:35,000
Figuring out how to use this
gift of discernment.

1061
01:00:35,600 --> 01:00:38,300
I absolutely agree.
So, I'll just continue where we

1062
01:00:38,300 --> 01:00:41,600
left off.
So, after talking about the

1063
01:00:41,600 --> 01:00:45,500
Greek philosophy, asserting that
matter is evil, The Logical

1064
01:00:45,500 --> 01:00:48,200
conclusion to this.
Is that any Doctrinal teaching

1065
01:00:48,200 --> 01:00:50,200
such as a belief.
In a literal, Resurrection would

1066
01:00:50,200 --> 01:00:52,800
be abhorrent to these gnostics.
Why would they want to be

1067
01:00:52,800 --> 01:00:56,000
trapped again in a body of
matter that they considered evil

1068
01:00:56,000 --> 01:00:59,700
that they considered a prism?
This is why Paul had a hard time

1069
01:00:59,700 --> 01:01:02,400
in teaching, teaching the gospel
and Athens when he brought up

1070
01:01:02,400 --> 01:01:04,700
the resurrection they Leo they
laughed him out of there, he's

1071
01:01:04,700 --> 01:01:07,400
teaching on Mars Hill and that
whole thing was going really

1072
01:01:07,400 --> 01:01:10,100
well until he mentioned the
resurrection of the body.

1073
01:01:11,100 --> 01:01:14,500
Naturally, then the gnostics
would say that Christ was just a

1074
01:01:14,500 --> 01:01:17,800
great spirit and he appeared as
a man but he was actually a

1075
01:01:17,808 --> 01:01:21,400
messenger of life and that
because he was divine, he

1076
01:01:21,400 --> 01:01:24,700
couldn't have it for real body
and therefore he had no flesh,

1077
01:01:24,700 --> 01:01:28,200
no death and no Resurrection.
What does that sound like?

1078
01:01:28,200 --> 01:01:32,000
What kind of God does that sound
like that has nobody right

1079
01:01:32,000 --> 01:01:34,600
there.
Appears as a messenger of light.

1080
01:01:36,100 --> 01:01:39,100
These doctrines and other items
were spiritualized away to mean,

1081
01:01:39,100 --> 01:01:41,400
other things just as the
apostles died.

1082
01:01:42,100 --> 01:01:43,900
And this was a cancer in the
church.

1083
01:01:44,000 --> 01:01:47,400
We have warnings from John Peter
and Jude regarding these people.

1084
01:01:48,500 --> 01:01:52,100
John warns us that are deceivers
who confess not that Christ came

1085
01:01:52,100 --> 01:01:54,700
in the flesh and the teach that
there was no Resurrection.

1086
01:01:54,700 --> 01:01:57,500
He called them them Antichrist.
Brigham.

1087
01:01:57,500 --> 01:02:00,800
Young recalibrates the scripture
to better apply for our day and

1088
01:02:00,800 --> 01:02:03,400
he told the Saints at any Spirit
or message.

1089
01:02:03,400 --> 01:02:06,100
That doesn't confess that.
Joseph Smith lived and died a

1090
01:02:06,100 --> 01:02:09,700
prophet of God is an antichrist
in his day.

1091
01:02:09,700 --> 01:02:13,400
Many people had broken away
after Joseph's death, and some

1092
01:02:13,400 --> 01:02:15,200
claimed appointment for
authority.

1093
01:02:16,200 --> 01:02:19,200
But they did not carry out all
of what Brigham in the 12 would

1094
01:02:19,200 --> 01:02:22,100
call.
Well, the measures of Joseph and

1095
01:02:22,100 --> 01:02:25,800
quote, which included Temple
ordinances and the fullness of

1096
01:02:25,800 --> 01:02:28,300
the Eternal Marriage, Covenant
and work for the dead.

1097
01:02:28,700 --> 01:02:32,300
These are items that I would use
as my measuring stick to test

1098
01:02:32,300 --> 01:02:35,700
the spirits or Messengers or
doctrines because they are the

1099
01:02:35,700 --> 01:02:38,300
principles that Joseph lived and
died to restore.

1100
01:02:38,500 --> 01:02:42,500
And I believe he lived and died
a prophet of God, there are more

1101
01:02:42,500 --> 01:02:45,900
things to consider but I have a
testimony that this is a solid.

1102
01:02:46,000 --> 01:02:49,600
Good platform to start from.
I'll just wrap up the Mojo,

1103
01:02:49,600 --> 01:02:52,600
touch up since we're at the last
paragraph, but I want to talk

1104
01:02:52,600 --> 01:02:54,400
about that laughs, the one we
just read.

1105
01:02:55,100 --> 01:02:58,400
Absolutely.
I close by saying these tactics

1106
01:02:58,400 --> 01:03:00,400
will be employed Again by the
adversary.

1107
01:03:00,400 --> 01:03:03,400
And there are people who claim a
secret knowledge given them by

1108
01:03:03,400 --> 01:03:06,900
Revelation and will offer to
teach it to you, to show you how

1109
01:03:06,900 --> 01:03:09,600
to see Christ.
Therefore understanding the

1110
01:03:09,600 --> 01:03:13,000
context of John's epistle is
relevant to us, but there are

1111
01:03:13,000 --> 01:03:16,200
going to be nuances in the way
that the adversary approaches us

1112
01:03:16,200 --> 01:03:19,500
in a modern day.
I have a testimony that any

1113
01:03:19,500 --> 01:03:22,800
Spirit or message or doctrine
that tells you that you can't

1114
01:03:22,800 --> 01:03:26,400
live up to and fulfill all the
measures of Joseph in this time

1115
01:03:26,400 --> 01:03:30,500
is Antichrist.
That is a measuring stick or an

1116
01:03:30,500 --> 01:03:34,200
iron Rod to me and I pray that
we all individually, will be

1117
01:03:34,200 --> 01:03:37,200
able to find cling to the iron
Rod, to help us discern the

1118
01:03:37,200 --> 01:03:39,100
truth.
When we are being tested by Our

1119
01:03:39,100 --> 01:03:40,500
Father in heaven, to do what he
would have us.

1120
01:03:40,500 --> 01:03:43,300
Do when we feel that we are
wandering in midst of Mists of

1121
01:03:43,300 --> 01:03:46,800
darkness and that we make into
the Tree of Life In The Name of

1122
01:03:46,800 --> 01:03:48,100
Jesus Christ.
Amen.

1123
01:03:48,800 --> 01:03:55,900
And so the first difference in
the succession crisis versus

1124
01:03:55,900 --> 01:03:58,700
like what the gnostics did in
the, in the first First century,

1125
01:03:58,800 --> 01:04:02,000
the gnostics claim, knowledge.
And at least, we don't know if

1126
01:04:02,000 --> 01:04:06,400
they claimed any Authority, but
we in the succession crisis with

1127
01:04:06,400 --> 01:04:08,100
Joseph Smith.
It's a little different, right?

1128
01:04:09,300 --> 01:04:12,000
Where you have different claims
to Authority, you know, and they

1129
01:04:12,008 --> 01:04:13,900
do claim or Nation or
appointment.

1130
01:04:13,900 --> 01:04:15,500
And so, with James, J strain,
right?

1131
01:04:15,500 --> 01:04:18,100
He has his letter showing a
Joseph Smith.

1132
01:04:18,100 --> 01:04:21,100
Got Revelation appointed me to
be the next prophet and it has

1133
01:04:21,100 --> 01:04:23,200
some backing right in a way
because it does say in what

1134
01:04:23,200 --> 01:04:26,000
section 43 or whatever.
Where it says, if you were to

1135
01:04:26,000 --> 01:04:28,500
fall, you shall have none other
power.

1136
01:04:28,500 --> 01:04:32,000
But to appoint a successor in
your place, right?

1137
01:04:32,300 --> 01:04:36,100
And the and you have Sidney
Rigdon, oh, I Was Made equal.

1138
01:04:36,100 --> 01:04:39,200
Joseph, I'm in the first
presidency, of course. going to

1139
01:04:39,207 --> 01:04:42,800
be a guardian of the church
until Joseph kids are old enough

1140
01:04:42,800 --> 01:04:47,100
to take, you know, and then you
have the eyewitnesses of you

1141
01:04:47,100 --> 01:04:50,000
know with the years later
setting that you know, the

1142
01:04:50,000 --> 01:04:55,000
Prophet Joseph ordained his son
Joseph to be hit the successor

1143
01:04:55,000 --> 01:04:59,400
in his stead, you know, and even
though he was 8 years old or 10

1144
01:04:59,400 --> 01:05:02,100
years old as a time, you know,
if that was done, that happened

1145
01:05:02,500 --> 01:05:09,400
and Then you have live and white
claiming Authority off of being

1146
01:05:09,400 --> 01:05:13,100
a member of the Council of 50
and a and being an apostle, you

1147
01:05:13,100 --> 01:05:16,700
know, the more particularly
having received endowments, you

1148
01:05:16,700 --> 01:05:21,400
know, and okay, I'm good to go.
Bei should be the Alan.

1149
01:05:21,400 --> 01:05:25,300
So I'm just going to go off and
build my temple and Texas and

1150
01:05:25,500 --> 01:05:29,700
it's interesting to me how these
things all play out and what

1151
01:05:29,700 --> 01:05:32,700
they these people did and what
they didn't do, you know.

1152
01:05:32,700 --> 01:05:35,900
And so the measuring stick Nick
is essentially, you know,

1153
01:05:36,000 --> 01:05:38,000
Brigham Young won the People by
saying we're going to build the

1154
01:05:38,000 --> 01:05:39,000
temple.
We're not leaving.

1155
01:05:39,200 --> 01:05:41,700
We're going to finish building
the Temple, and we're going to

1156
01:05:41,707 --> 01:05:44,200
give people their endowments
because that's what Joseph

1157
01:05:44,200 --> 01:05:47,800
wanted to do, you know, and it's
even in Joseph new and we know

1158
01:05:47,800 --> 01:05:51,100
this that he he knew that the
saints were going to have to go

1159
01:05:51,100 --> 01:05:54,400
west eventually the Rocky
Mountains and you can you can

1160
01:05:54,400 --> 01:05:57,600
find in the book Words of Joseph
Smith, where he says, what

1161
01:05:57,600 --> 01:06:01,200
happens when the saints are out
there in the mountains and they

1162
01:06:01,200 --> 01:06:03,700
want to talk to their God, they
need their endowments.

1163
01:06:04,200 --> 01:06:05,800
And this is a place where we're
going to give them their

1164
01:06:05,800 --> 01:06:08,500
endowments.
And so that was vitally

1165
01:06:08,500 --> 01:06:14,300
important that that swells.
Had the knowledge of how to and

1166
01:06:14,300 --> 01:06:17,200
and authority to administer
those to the people and that's

1167
01:06:17,200 --> 01:06:20,700
exactly what was done and and
work for the dead, right?

1168
01:06:20,700 --> 01:06:23,800
And plural marriage.
And so you can see what these

1169
01:06:23,800 --> 01:06:27,200
other claimants even if they
held a one.

1170
01:06:27,400 --> 01:06:30,300
It seems as if an element of one
of the others was dropped off,

1171
01:06:30,600 --> 01:06:32,600
right?
And so that's my litmus test

1172
01:06:32,600 --> 01:06:36,900
personally, regarding how Joe
Brigham Young was clearly the

1173
01:06:37,300 --> 01:06:42,600
carrying on Joseph measures and
it Joseph Give young never

1174
01:06:42,600 --> 01:06:46,100
claimed to be his successor,
Joseph successor, but he was the

1175
01:06:46,100 --> 01:06:50,300
one that carried on his work.
I'm glad you brought that up

1176
01:06:50,300 --> 01:06:53,800
because that's what that's what
jumped out to me and that's the

1177
01:06:53,800 --> 01:06:59,400
litmus test I use.
Okay, is you said something

1178
01:06:59,900 --> 01:07:03,800
super profound?
They're just in passing early

1179
01:07:03,800 --> 01:07:06,100
on.
After you got done reading where

1180
01:07:06,100 --> 01:07:09,000
you said Brigham Young said, no.
We're going to stay here and

1181
01:07:09,000 --> 01:07:11,800
finish this Temple because
that's what Joseph wanted to do,

1182
01:07:12,800 --> 01:07:15,600
right.
My witness test is always this

1183
01:07:17,000 --> 01:07:18,900
In.
This is why I kind of jumped on

1184
01:07:18,900 --> 01:07:21,500
this.
The thing I get about filling

1185
01:07:21,500 --> 01:07:26,300
those roles here on Earth or, or
working in those offices with

1186
01:07:26,300 --> 01:07:29,700
those various percentages within
the godhead.

1187
01:07:30,900 --> 01:07:35,500
My litmus test, is, are you
doing the things that Jesus did?

1188
01:07:35,500 --> 01:07:38,600
Are you trying to live the way
Jesus lived?

1189
01:07:38,600 --> 01:07:42,200
Are you trying to do the things
that Joseph did?

1190
01:07:42,900 --> 01:07:45,800
If the answer is, yes, there's a
good.

1191
01:07:45,900 --> 01:07:48,100
Possibility.
We're going to we're going to be

1192
01:07:48,700 --> 01:07:51,200
good.
Friends theologically right?

1193
01:07:51,200 --> 01:07:54,800
We may not agree on everything
but we'll be close enough where

1194
01:07:54,800 --> 01:07:57,900
we can hang.
I agree.

1195
01:07:57,900 --> 01:08:05,900
I agree with that when when
Those paths start to diverge and

1196
01:08:06,700 --> 01:08:10,400
I don't want to just use the
term historical because I feel

1197
01:08:10,400 --> 01:08:17,200
like historical can be twisted.
And I know this is a bold claim,

1198
01:08:17,500 --> 01:08:25,600
but I'm going to make it here.
When I encounter somebody whose

1199
01:08:25,600 --> 01:08:29,700
Joseph Smith doesn't do the same
works.

1200
01:08:30,899 --> 01:08:35,100
That we know beyond the shadow
of a doubt based on historicity

1201
01:08:35,500 --> 01:08:40,600
based on Witnesses of the spirit
based on what other people's

1202
01:08:40,600 --> 01:08:43,200
testimonies was.
Chances are we're not going to

1203
01:08:43,200 --> 01:08:47,399
hang together theologically
because it's a different Joseph

1204
01:08:47,399 --> 01:08:51,100
Smith that you have not a
correct.

1205
01:08:51,100 --> 01:08:53,600
Joseph Smith.
Yep.

1206
01:08:54,100 --> 01:08:57,399
We see if you study the last
year.

1207
01:08:57,399 --> 01:09:01,600
So Joseph Smith's speeches it I
work from the dead work, for the

1208
01:09:01,600 --> 01:09:05,200
dead work, for the dead.
And so anything that can

1209
01:09:05,200 --> 01:09:07,600
conflict with that
theologically, I tossed it out

1210
01:09:07,600 --> 01:09:09,800
right now.
Yeah, I taught I toss that out

1211
01:09:09,800 --> 01:09:14,899
right now as you should that was
that was his the seal that was

1212
01:09:14,899 --> 01:09:17,500
that was it?
That was and he died established

1213
01:09:17,500 --> 01:09:21,100
a testimony for that principle.
That would that would bind this

1214
01:09:21,100 --> 01:09:26,200
dispensation to all the others
and what does malloc I say if if

1215
01:09:26,200 --> 01:09:29,899
the if the promises you know, of
the fathers were not planted in

1216
01:09:29,899 --> 01:09:33,200
the hearts that children in our
hearts, do not turn to our

1217
01:09:33,200 --> 01:09:37,000
fathers, the Earth of the
utterly wasted, at the coming of

1218
01:09:37,000 --> 01:09:38,100
the Lord.
Yeah.

1219
01:09:38,899 --> 01:09:40,600
Yeah, 100%.
Yeah.

1220
01:09:41,000 --> 01:09:45,600
And so Forgive me because it's
frustrating to me when I hear

1221
01:09:45,600 --> 01:09:48,600
people say things like work for
the dead.

1222
01:09:48,600 --> 01:09:51,700
That was that was Brigham's
invention or that was Taylor's

1223
01:09:51,700 --> 01:09:55,200
invention.
I'm like have you read anything

1224
01:09:55,200 --> 01:09:59,300
from the Nauvoo period?
Anything chances are you're

1225
01:09:59,300 --> 01:10:05,000
gonna bump into it really easy.
I would agree with you because

1226
01:10:05,000 --> 01:10:09,200
at the end of Joseph Ministry it
was all about the temple.

1227
01:10:09,200 --> 01:10:11,000
It was all about work for the
dead.

1228
01:10:11,300 --> 01:10:15,900
It was In large portion, I would
say that, you know, even though

1229
01:10:15,900 --> 01:10:21,200
it was on the the the DL he was
all about plural marriage, it

1230
01:10:21,200 --> 01:10:24,800
was all there.
And so when I see somebody

1231
01:10:25,200 --> 01:10:29,400
claimed a Joseph Smith who's not
all about that, that should

1232
01:10:30,100 --> 01:10:32,700
raise a red flag and that's
where discernment kicks in.

1233
01:10:33,200 --> 01:10:36,300
Because if you've done, if
you've done the work, if you've

1234
01:10:36,300 --> 01:10:40,700
had spiritual experiences, if
you've, if you've read history,

1235
01:10:41,100 --> 01:10:45,200
if you have checked, Our sources
discernments, a real, I

1236
01:10:45,200 --> 01:10:48,400
shouldn't say super easy thing
to come by, but it's not

1237
01:10:48,400 --> 01:10:51,000
difficult to obtain either,
right?

1238
01:10:51,000 --> 01:10:55,000
And it's a it's hard because,
you know, even going up in the

1239
01:10:55,000 --> 01:10:57,800
church and they talk about, you
know, we the church has hundreds

1240
01:10:57,800 --> 01:10:59,900
of temples in the world and
that's what you do.

1241
01:10:59,900 --> 01:11:02,900
It's you do work for the day.
You know, it wasn't really

1242
01:11:02,900 --> 01:11:06,600
impressed upon me how important
it was until I studied.

1243
01:11:06,700 --> 01:11:11,500
Joseph Smith's words on it and
it hit me like it was the most

1244
01:11:11,500 --> 01:11:14,000
important.
Thing in the world and I felt

1245
01:11:14,000 --> 01:11:15,800
the weight of it.
I felt the weight of how

1246
01:11:15,800 --> 01:11:18,000
important that was.
I felt like the entire weight of

1247
01:11:18,000 --> 01:11:21,900
the world was dependent was on
my back, you know?

1248
01:11:22,000 --> 01:11:24,200
And, and not, and not just me,
but I felt it.

1249
01:11:24,200 --> 01:11:28,000
I felt it personally, you know,
you know, but and I'm like, what

1250
01:11:28,000 --> 01:11:31,600
does anyone else feel this way?
You know, like this so important

1251
01:11:31,600 --> 01:11:33,800
that we get this right and do
things, right?

1252
01:11:33,800 --> 01:11:37,600
And it's concerning to me that
ordinances change, because it

1253
01:11:37,600 --> 01:11:40,100
would you administer ordinances
for the dead that are changed in

1254
01:11:40,100 --> 01:11:43,000
a temple.
You're putting them in a

1255
01:11:43,008 --> 01:11:46,000
different Kingdom because the
law that they're covenanting

1256
01:11:46,000 --> 01:11:49,300
through proxy is different.
And so you are you really

1257
01:11:49,300 --> 01:11:52,900
binding families together, you
know, and sealing them together,

1258
01:11:52,900 --> 01:11:54,900
you're throwing the whole work
of God and the confusion.

1259
01:11:54,900 --> 01:11:59,100
Because Joseph Smith says that
all must be saved on the same

1260
01:11:59,100 --> 01:12:03,200
principles.
Yeah, and I would say this, you

1261
01:12:03,200 --> 01:12:08,900
might be trying to change God.
The Father into somebody who he

1262
01:12:08,900 --> 01:12:13,300
says he is not right?
So, If this idea of ordinances

1263
01:12:13,300 --> 01:12:18,100
change based on the times in
which we live well though all of

1264
01:12:18,100 --> 01:12:21,200
a sudden means god is a
respecter of persons even though

1265
01:12:21,200 --> 01:12:23,500
he said he's no respecter of
persons.

1266
01:12:23,900 --> 01:12:28,400
And so by changing those
ordinances, you're basically a

1267
01:12:28,400 --> 01:12:33,600
scribing to him an attribute
which he himself.

1268
01:12:33,600 --> 01:12:37,700
Vehement Lee denied, I can't be
a respecter of persons.

1269
01:12:38,100 --> 01:12:40,300
Is what God is saying,
everybody.

1270
01:12:40,300 --> 01:12:43,300
If you listen Just like you
quote from Joseph Smith.

1271
01:12:44,200 --> 01:12:49,000
If?
If those things can change, God

1272
01:12:49,000 --> 01:12:51,200
sees his kind, kind of to be
God.

1273
01:12:51,300 --> 01:12:56,100
I mean there's there's there's
no there's no consistency there

1274
01:12:56,100 --> 01:12:59,100
and if there's no consistency,
that's not a God, I'm really

1275
01:12:59,100 --> 01:13:02,200
interested in following.
Yeah, I'll go and I'll say, you

1276
01:13:02,200 --> 01:13:05,700
know, I logically to me.
It doesn't make sense that I

1277
01:13:05,700 --> 01:13:09,500
could obtain the same blessings
without a full disclosure of the

1278
01:13:09,500 --> 01:13:13,500
penalties of breaking my
covenants, that my parents got

1279
01:13:13,500 --> 01:13:16,500
when they went to the temple.
You know how How can I be, how

1280
01:13:16,500 --> 01:13:18,100
can I be entitled to the same
blessings?

1281
01:13:18,100 --> 01:13:20,900
If they, if they agree, if the
full agreement was not disclosed

1282
01:13:20,900 --> 01:13:26,700
to me Yeah, right.
You can't you can't be God.

1283
01:13:27,200 --> 01:13:30,300
God would cease to be just in
that sense.

1284
01:13:31,000 --> 01:13:34,100
Right?
You're so right.

1285
01:13:34,100 --> 01:13:37,300
And so, these are things that we
can plan our still talking on.

1286
01:13:37,300 --> 01:13:40,700
But what else do I want to touch
on something else here, too?

1287
01:13:42,100 --> 01:13:44,400
Where was it?
It was on the Book of Mormon

1288
01:13:44,400 --> 01:13:46,100
actually.
So, it wasn't and what we just

1289
01:13:46,100 --> 01:13:52,100
read, but many of these many of
the groups we see out Out there

1290
01:13:52,400 --> 01:13:57,600
that are refraining Joseph Smith
in the into a new narrative will

1291
01:13:57,600 --> 01:14:01,300
support it based off of what I
would call an erroneous,

1292
01:14:01,700 --> 01:14:05,200
interpretation of the Book of
Mormon and what and what that's

1293
01:14:05,200 --> 01:14:10,100
telling you and like Jacob,
yeah, like Jacob, chapter 2 and

1294
01:14:10,100 --> 01:14:15,400
and polygamy denials, and also
ordinance denial, you know, and

1295
01:14:15,800 --> 01:14:19,800
because I was just reading a
second EFI, 28, or 29, 30, we're

1296
01:14:19,800 --> 01:14:24,100
somewhere in there today, work.
Crisis or we're Nephi is telling

1297
01:14:24,600 --> 01:14:27,500
he's expounding the Prophecies
of Isaiah.

1298
01:14:27,500 --> 01:14:30,200
I can just right after the
Isaiah chapters and he's

1299
01:14:30,200 --> 01:14:32,700
expounding all these prophecies
to the people and he says, I

1300
01:14:32,708 --> 01:14:35,800
Delight in playing this only
explain this to you after the

1301
01:14:35,800 --> 01:14:38,600
manner of preaching, which is
plane which I Delight in, you

1302
01:14:38,600 --> 01:14:44,100
know, and he goes on and says
Yeah, I do this so that my seed,

1303
01:14:44,100 --> 01:14:49,000
and so that the Gentiles will
believe in Christ, right?

1304
01:14:49,300 --> 01:14:53,000
And, and if you, and then he
says, but if you believe not,

1305
01:14:53,000 --> 01:14:57,100
these words Believe In Christ.
But if you believe in Christ,

1306
01:14:57,100 --> 01:15:00,200
you will believe these words
that are they are found in this

1307
01:15:00,200 --> 01:15:02,300
book.
And if you believe these words,

1308
01:15:02,600 --> 01:15:05,600
you will believe.
You know, we're told oftentimes

1309
01:15:05,600 --> 01:15:08,600
by Mormon and Moreau.
And I, the, the spirit stops me

1310
01:15:08,600 --> 01:15:10,800
from writing more.
I was about to write more but if

1311
01:15:10,800 --> 01:15:14,800
you Leave these things.
Greater things will be made

1312
01:15:14,800 --> 01:15:17,700
known to you.
So that if these people are,

1313
01:15:17,700 --> 01:15:20,900
then reframing Joseph Smith by
saying the Book of Mormon, only

1314
01:15:20,900 --> 01:15:22,800
tells you to have faith in Jesus
Christ.

1315
01:15:22,800 --> 01:15:25,800
Repent of your sins.
Be baptized and then you get

1316
01:15:25,800 --> 01:15:28,500
this baptism of fire in the Holy
Ghost in your set.

1317
01:15:29,000 --> 01:15:31,000
You know, that's it.
That's the doctrine of Christ.

1318
01:15:31,000 --> 01:15:32,300
You can read it right in 3rd
Nephi.

1319
01:15:32,300 --> 01:15:33,700
That's all it is.
There's nothing more.

1320
01:15:33,700 --> 01:15:36,600
And he says if you add on that
you're on a Sandy Foundation,

1321
01:15:36,600 --> 01:15:39,300
right?
But it's ignoring the other

1322
01:15:39,300 --> 01:15:43,000
statements about if you believe
these things there's more so

1323
01:15:43,000 --> 01:15:46,600
then I challenge, I would
challenge anyone to say what are

1324
01:15:46,600 --> 01:15:50,000
those other things?
Besides the endowment besides

1325
01:15:50,000 --> 01:15:52,900
work for the dead?
Besides the whole, the all the

1326
01:15:52,900 --> 01:15:56,300
ordinances of the Holy
priesthood that were revealed

1327
01:15:56,300 --> 01:16:01,200
through Joseph Smith before he
died and I I'm a Loosely I do

1328
01:16:01,200 --> 01:16:03,100
follow the doctrine of Christ
too much, you know, because I

1329
01:16:03,108 --> 01:16:05,600
don't have the time for it but I
do know.

1330
01:16:05,600 --> 01:16:08,200
It seems like a big claim was
made that there's This

1331
01:16:08,200 --> 01:16:10,500
Melchizedek priesthood baptism,
okay?

1332
01:16:10,500 --> 01:16:13,900
Prove that from the scriptures,
but that's the thing, you know,

1333
01:16:14,000 --> 01:16:16,000
you can't do it.
You can't prove that that's, you

1334
01:16:16,000 --> 01:16:19,100
know, but you know this, this if
you will believe these things,

1335
01:16:19,100 --> 01:16:22,700
this will be added to you.
But the scriptures do talk about

1336
01:16:22,800 --> 01:16:24,900
holy anointings in several
places.

1337
01:16:25,300 --> 01:16:29,700
And it talks about entering into
the presence of the Lord, you

1338
01:16:29,700 --> 01:16:34,600
know, Avail ceremony and even in
the Joseph Smith translation,

1339
01:16:34,600 --> 01:16:36,800
what is a Genesis 15 14,
whatever it is?

1340
01:16:38,000 --> 01:16:40,700
and when God is making his
Covenant with Abraham and he

1341
01:16:40,700 --> 01:16:46,800
says Abraham your father's have
Departed From my ways and they

1342
01:16:46,800 --> 01:16:51,400
are not administering the
anointing and the burial or

1343
01:16:51,400 --> 01:16:53,700
baptism where was I had
commanded them?

1344
01:16:54,100 --> 01:16:58,400
You know, and so okay.
So what does the baptism?

1345
01:16:58,400 --> 01:16:59,900
Isn't a known anointing by the
way.

1346
01:16:59,900 --> 01:17:02,000
And that's a what?
Well, there's only one thing

1347
01:17:02,000 --> 01:17:05,700
that was revealed to you.
The only anointings revealed

1348
01:17:05,700 --> 01:17:07,800
through the Prophet Joseph
Smith, where the ordinance is

1349
01:17:07,800 --> 01:17:10,700
done in the solemn assembly and
Kirtland, Ohio, where there was

1350
01:17:10,700 --> 01:17:14,000
a washing of the feet and an
anointing of the head, where

1351
01:17:14,000 --> 01:17:17,100
there was Prophetic blessings
given and sealed up on your head

1352
01:17:17,100 --> 01:17:20,300
and then the Washings and
anointings in the Nauvoo Temple

1353
01:17:20,800 --> 01:17:23,800
and in the second anointing,
those are the only things.

1354
01:17:24,100 --> 01:17:25,200
Yep.
Yep.

1355
01:17:25,800 --> 01:17:28,800
You know, when it comes to the
Book of Mormon, there's

1356
01:17:28,800 --> 01:17:34,000
definitely Illusions because I
feel like that with some of

1357
01:17:34,000 --> 01:17:38,600
these groups and they know who
they are, I'll get plenty of

1358
01:17:38,600 --> 01:17:41,100
hate off of this, which you got
to admit.

1359
01:17:41,100 --> 01:17:46,000
I kind of like, I don't know
why, but, but My grandfather

1360
01:17:46,000 --> 01:17:48,300
used to say if you're not taking
slack, you're not over the

1361
01:17:48,300 --> 01:17:54,300
Target, so I tend to be if that
hurts that hurts for a reason.

1362
01:17:54,300 --> 01:18:00,000
So anyway, going going back to
what I was saying here.

1363
01:18:00,100 --> 01:18:04,800
While there are definitely
allusions to exaltation within

1364
01:18:04,800 --> 01:18:09,300
the Book of Mormon We don't get
to really start talking about

1365
01:18:09,300 --> 01:18:12,200
exaltation until we get to the
Doctrine and Covenants, the

1366
01:18:12,200 --> 01:18:15,800
pearl of great price.
Those are those other things,

1367
01:18:15,800 --> 01:18:18,500
right?
So in some sense, I'm willing to

1368
01:18:18,500 --> 01:18:22,100
say, no, you're right, there's
not a lot of quote exaltation

1369
01:18:22,200 --> 01:18:25,600
talk in the Book of Mormon.
But there's not in the New

1370
01:18:25,600 --> 01:18:28,900
Testament either.
Now, what I would challenge

1371
01:18:28,900 --> 01:18:33,400
anyone to do, who doesn't like
this idea of further light

1372
01:18:33,400 --> 01:18:39,000
knowledge of further, you know,
Um, teachings.

1373
01:18:40,300 --> 01:18:43,500
You know, because we do get some
of that, even from third from

1374
01:18:43,500 --> 01:18:47,100
3rd Nephi where it says, in
Christ said many more things

1375
01:18:47,100 --> 01:18:51,000
which I am constrained, not just
stay here right there.

1376
01:18:51,000 --> 01:18:54,400
There's all these hints like,
hey, there's more there's more,

1377
01:18:54,400 --> 01:18:58,500
there's more and then come forth
the Doctrine and Covenants and

1378
01:18:58,600 --> 01:19:04,200
the pearl of great price which
lays out that exaltation path.

1379
01:19:04,400 --> 01:19:08,200
So yes, I'm perfectly
comfortable saying, you'll find

1380
01:19:08,200 --> 01:19:10,500
a lot of Salvation in the Book
of Mormon, but you're going to

1381
01:19:10,508 --> 01:19:14,000
find a lot of exaltation.
Well, Doctrine, and Covenants.

1382
01:19:14,300 --> 01:19:17,000
And look at subscribe, look at
the time lapse between the

1383
01:19:17,008 --> 01:19:19,600
publishing of the Book of Mormon
and the start of the church.

1384
01:19:19,700 --> 01:19:22,900
And when Joseph got the book of
Moses, the book of Moses was

1385
01:19:22,900 --> 01:19:28,800
received like entirely from June
of 1832 like January of 1831 and

1386
01:19:28,800 --> 01:19:31,800
so it's within the year of the
church being Valley at the as

1387
01:19:31,800 --> 01:19:36,700
soon as the church was founded.
You have profound Teachings of

1388
01:19:36,800 --> 01:19:39,900
exaltation where you have in the
first book of Moses where it

1389
01:19:39,900 --> 01:19:44,100
says that God created, Man In
His Image male and female.

1390
01:19:44,100 --> 01:19:47,100
He created it.
And there's more emphasis on how

1391
01:19:47,100 --> 01:19:50,500
it was created by in the spirit.
After the image of mine, only

1392
01:19:50,500 --> 01:19:53,500
begotten son.
And so it reinforces this idea

1393
01:19:53,500 --> 01:19:56,300
that man is like more than you
get from the Bible either man is

1394
01:19:56,400 --> 01:19:58,500
The Offspring and in the image
of God.

1395
01:19:58,500 --> 01:20:00,400
Literally.
And that's right there, as right

1396
01:20:00,400 --> 01:20:02,400
there at the beginning of the
book of Moses, right?

1397
01:20:02,500 --> 01:20:05,700
And then you get, it is in the
says it.

1398
01:20:05,900 --> 01:20:07,600
Was a sewer three or somewhere
in there.

1399
01:20:08,200 --> 01:20:12,200
That Adam was the son of God,
yes, Jenny logically, it

1400
01:20:12,200 --> 01:20:15,900
connects the Human family to the
race of the Gods.

1401
01:20:16,000 --> 01:20:19,600
Huge huge element of the
exaltation theology.

1402
01:20:19,800 --> 01:20:25,000
The next thing that corroborates
that is Moses 659. 1 Enoch is

1403
01:20:25,000 --> 01:20:27,100
going out and teaching but he's
quoting.

1404
01:20:27,400 --> 01:20:29,900
What the Lord said to Adam out
of the book of remembrance,

1405
01:20:29,900 --> 01:20:32,400
because that's what they had
from scripture and he's saying,

1406
01:20:32,400 --> 01:20:35,700
inasmuch, as I made you out of
dust.

1407
01:20:35,800 --> 01:20:41,600
Dust a living Soul through water
and blood and spirit.

1408
01:20:41,600 --> 01:20:46,900
And so it's defining being made
of the dust as procreation.

1409
01:20:47,200 --> 01:20:51,200
Yep, right there, as if Sam
Adams procreate is and that's a

1410
01:20:51,208 --> 01:20:54,000
Brigham, Young talk all day
long.

1411
01:20:54,100 --> 01:20:58,500
Was that Adam was born on
another Earth and brought here

1412
01:20:58,900 --> 01:21:01,600
and anybody?
And he was resurrected from the

1413
01:21:01,600 --> 01:21:05,200
Dust As we all are going to be.
Yeah.

1414
01:21:05,200 --> 01:21:08,400
But not the dust of this Earth,
the dust of another Earth and

1415
01:21:08,400 --> 01:21:12,100
then came here, right?
And so those things were

1416
01:21:12,100 --> 01:21:14,300
actually writing the beginning
of Mormonism.

1417
01:21:14,900 --> 01:21:18,400
Yeah.
But they weren't explained, but

1418
01:21:18,400 --> 01:21:21,300
the source material right there.
1830.

1419
01:21:22,200 --> 01:21:24,700
Yep.
Yep.

1420
01:21:24,700 --> 01:21:28,600
A 1844 18:30.
Yep.

1421
01:21:28,900 --> 01:21:32,900
And and the thing is that you
can see the progression of the

1422
01:21:32,900 --> 01:21:35,200
early adherence to Mormonism,
right?

1423
01:21:35,700 --> 01:21:38,000
They have the Bible, they wanted
more.

1424
01:21:38,300 --> 01:21:41,800
Here Comes The Book of Mormon.
They wanted more, here comes the

1425
01:21:41,808 --> 01:21:44,300
Doctrine and Covenants and the
pearl of great price.

1426
01:21:44,400 --> 01:21:48,000
Now, chew on this for a good
hundred years, right?

1427
01:21:49,800 --> 01:21:53,300
The other thing I'll say is that
what's interesting?

1428
01:21:54,200 --> 01:21:57,400
is that if you follow out what
some of these other groups teach

1429
01:21:57,400 --> 01:22:04,500
about Joseph Smith, you get a
regression. so yeah no longer

1430
01:22:04,500 --> 01:22:08,900
have a Joseph Smith, who is a
prophet, you get a Joseph Smith,

1431
01:22:09,100 --> 01:22:13,900
who is simply another Minister
because if he has nothing

1432
01:22:14,100 --> 01:22:19,700
profound to reveal, if the Book
of Mormon is simply another book

1433
01:22:19,700 --> 01:22:25,500
that adds to this idea of saved
by grace or another Pentecostal

1434
01:22:25,500 --> 01:22:33,600
kind of Experience that lead you
to Salvation.

1435
01:22:34,000 --> 01:22:37,500
You painted Joseph Smith into
something that he said he never

1436
01:22:37,500 --> 01:22:40,900
was absolutely.
And so these people are the

1437
01:22:40,900 --> 01:22:43,000
modern gnostics, all right?
That we have to deal with, and

1438
01:22:43,000 --> 01:22:48,900
it's they come with variance and
nuances in different flavors and

1439
01:22:49,100 --> 01:22:53,400
they're the the false prophets,
false, priests false christs,

1440
01:22:53,400 --> 01:22:55,900
fault, you know.
And and Dude any we know what we

1441
01:22:55,900 --> 01:22:58,500
know, some people claim to be
Christ Incarnated, some people

1442
01:22:58,500 --> 01:23:00,900
seem to be Joseph Smith
reincarnated, or some other

1443
01:23:00,900 --> 01:23:04,800
figure of the restoration, you
know, reincarnated In the Flesh.

1444
01:23:05,000 --> 01:23:09,200
And it's a yeah, I mean, I would
just freak, urge anyone who's

1445
01:23:09,200 --> 01:23:12,600
curious about that, kind of
stuff to really study, Joseph's,

1446
01:23:12,600 --> 01:23:17,400
teachings, on work for the dead
and for the Eternal exaltation

1447
01:23:17,400 --> 01:23:19,100
and and see what that looks
like.

1448
01:23:19,100 --> 01:23:22,700
You know, and that don't think I
don't think they're this

1449
01:23:22,700 --> 01:23:25,600
multiple lives thing.
Works the way people are saying

1450
01:23:25,600 --> 01:23:27,900
it works.
Now, you know what Really

1451
01:23:27,900 --> 01:23:30,200
discouraged.
Me and this was before I was a

1452
01:23:30,200 --> 01:23:34,600
Mormon on this idea of
reincarnation.

1453
01:23:36,400 --> 01:23:39,500
It was that nobody.
Everybody was somebody important

1454
01:23:39,600 --> 01:23:43,500
like, for some reason, every
woman was Cleopatra and every

1455
01:23:43,500 --> 01:23:48,600
guy was was somebody important.
Nobody was ever Balki, the

1456
01:23:48,600 --> 01:23:52,200
produce boy that got ran over by
the dunk heart, right?

1457
01:23:52,500 --> 01:23:54,000
It was always somebody
important.

1458
01:23:54,800 --> 01:23:57,800
But you know you're right.
These are these are things to

1459
01:23:57,800 --> 01:24:02,100
stay away from now.
Real quick, I want to talk about

1460
01:24:02,100 --> 01:24:04,600
how it is.
We develop we kind of touched on

1461
01:24:04,600 --> 01:24:08,900
a little bit but I don't don't
feel like we really let this

1462
01:24:08,900 --> 01:24:11,600
idea kind of mature a little bit
here, I'm sure.

1463
01:24:11,700 --> 01:24:13,800
Yeah, I think I know where you
where you want to go with us.

1464
01:24:14,100 --> 01:24:21,200
How do we Develop this sense.
This, this gift of discernment

1465
01:24:21,300 --> 01:24:25,200
so that when we see an imposter
coming down, the road a month,

1466
01:24:25,300 --> 01:24:28,500
we can spot them a mile away.
We can be like whoop there it

1467
01:24:28,500 --> 01:24:31,900
is, get it out of the way
because it's easier to deal with

1468
01:24:31,900 --> 01:24:35,900
this stuff in its infancy than
it is when it becomes a

1469
01:24:35,900 --> 01:24:38,000
full-blown problem.
That's very true.

1470
01:24:38,100 --> 01:24:42,000
You know speaking from
experience you know and it is

1471
01:24:42,000 --> 01:24:44,900
experience you know you have to
gain light knowledge and yes you

1472
01:24:44,900 --> 01:24:47,700
placing yourself in a position
Soon where you were accumulating

1473
01:24:48,000 --> 01:24:50,800
like knowledge and you're not
decreasing in light knowledge

1474
01:24:50,800 --> 01:24:54,100
first off and you have to you
know, so Revelation that kind of

1475
01:24:54,100 --> 01:24:56,200
stuff.
It takes, huge, true, humility

1476
01:24:56,500 --> 01:24:59,500
and charity and so, yeah.
Like live the gospel, obviously,

1477
01:24:59,600 --> 01:25:04,200
get those attributes.
I remember my baby, testimony of

1478
01:25:04,208 --> 01:25:07,500
the Gospel came from The Book of
Mormon and it convinced me that

1479
01:25:07,500 --> 01:25:12,500
Jesus Christ died for my sins.
And that I could truly be

1480
01:25:12,500 --> 01:25:16,100
forgiven of the, the really dumb
things I've done in my life.

1481
01:25:16,200 --> 01:25:20,800
And then being grateful enough
to for that experience.

1482
01:25:20,800 --> 01:25:23,500
I wanted to go serve a mission
and teach people that same

1483
01:25:23,500 --> 01:25:24,900
thing.
I wanted them to feel that you

1484
01:25:24,900 --> 01:25:29,200
know, feel this weight of sin
lifted off, you know, and that's

1485
01:25:29,200 --> 01:25:32,200
where I started.
But then I wanted to Be an

1486
01:25:32,200 --> 01:25:35,800
Effective Teacher of the
fullness of the gospel.

1487
01:25:35,800 --> 01:25:39,100
And so I had to understand what
a Joseph.

1488
01:25:39,100 --> 01:25:41,800
Teach not just what the I know
the Book of Mormon says, what

1489
01:25:41,800 --> 01:25:44,200
did Joseph say?
What did Brigham Young say?

1490
01:25:44,200 --> 01:25:47,300
You know, and you have to To
know what they say.

1491
01:25:47,300 --> 01:25:51,900
And some people get offended
over things that I think are

1492
01:25:51,900 --> 01:25:56,200
quite silly to be honest.
If you were to ask people in the

1493
01:25:56,200 --> 01:25:59,500
church have you ever read a full
sermon of Joseph Smith?

1494
01:25:59,700 --> 01:26:02,800
How do you think would say they
have even red buff, 11 full

1495
01:26:02,800 --> 01:26:07,500
sermon of the Prophet Joseph?
I would say 10% best as a

1496
01:26:07,500 --> 01:26:10,100
terrible statistic, isn't it?
Yeah, it is.

1497
01:26:10,100 --> 01:26:13,100
An absolutely.
You don't know who that man is,

1498
01:26:13,800 --> 01:26:16,700
if you're not at all, you have
is a repetition Titian you have

1499
01:26:16,700 --> 01:26:19,800
the telephone game of church
authorities and other people in

1500
01:26:19,800 --> 01:26:22,100
your Seminary.
Teachers in the whoever telling

1501
01:26:22,100 --> 01:26:25,000
you a Joseph said, but you've
never gone and read a full you,

1502
01:26:25,000 --> 01:26:28,100
you're gonna tell me, you're
gonna go run to the enzyme to

1503
01:26:28,100 --> 01:26:31,000
find the other publishing, you
know, of the last General

1504
01:26:31,000 --> 01:26:33,300
Conference and you going to read
that but you've never gone and

1505
01:26:33,300 --> 01:26:35,400
looked for a sermon from Joseph
Smith to read it.

1506
01:26:35,800 --> 01:26:39,600
That's absolutely ridiculous.
I agree, honey.

1507
01:26:39,600 --> 01:26:41,900
Call ourselves.
Believers and restoration, have

1508
01:26:41,900 --> 01:26:44,800
no idea if you've never read
talks, with Joseph Smith, you,

1509
01:26:45,400 --> 01:26:47,900
if you shouldn't even call
yourself a Latter-Day Saints,

1510
01:26:48,800 --> 01:26:52,000
I'll put that out there.
Yeah, no II agree with you,

1511
01:26:52,000 --> 01:26:55,000
totally.
I agree with you 100%.

1512
01:26:55,000 --> 01:27:00,800
The words of Joseph are so
important, because Well, it's

1513
01:27:00,800 --> 01:27:04,100
the same reason Madison's notes
are so important when it comes

1514
01:27:04,100 --> 01:27:07,900
to understanding the arguments
for the Constitution, Joseph,

1515
01:27:07,900 --> 01:27:11,600
lays out the intent, right?
And the Lord lays out through

1516
01:27:11,600 --> 01:27:14,000
the intent, through the
revelations of Joseph Smith.

1517
01:27:14,900 --> 01:27:19,200
And so, if you don't understand
the intent, you don't know where

1518
01:27:19,200 --> 01:27:21,500
you're going.
You have no clue.

1519
01:27:21,800 --> 01:27:26,500
Intent is the North Star by
which in the gospel.

1520
01:27:26,500 --> 01:27:29,700
We we frame our whole
discipleship.

1521
01:27:30,700 --> 01:27:35,900
As Disciples of Christ, the
intent is to get back to God,

1522
01:27:35,900 --> 01:27:39,300
our Eternal Father, and be like
him, if that goes away.

1523
01:27:40,800 --> 01:27:42,400
Where we going?
What are we doing?

1524
01:27:42,900 --> 01:27:44,900
What's our intent?
Yep.

1525
01:27:45,600 --> 01:27:53,100
And that's what I love about.
Default all that succeeded carry

1526
01:27:53,100 --> 01:27:55,500
on the measures of Joseph.
Is that's what they talked about

1527
01:27:55,600 --> 01:27:57,300
They carried on.
That's the ology of.

1528
01:27:57,300 --> 01:27:59,200
We are trying to be like our
heavenly father.

1529
01:27:59,200 --> 01:28:01,700
Now, I don't know if we have
records from people like alpheus

1530
01:28:01,700 --> 01:28:04,600
Cutler or lime and white that I
don't know what they were

1531
01:28:04,600 --> 01:28:07,700
teaching in Texas, or up in
Minnesota or Wisconsin to

1532
01:28:07,700 --> 01:28:09,600
wherever, they went, you know,
because you have this

1533
01:28:09,600 --> 01:28:11,400
splintering of these groups,
right?

1534
01:28:11,900 --> 01:28:16,300
But we know from periodicals in
the church innahu, like,

1535
01:28:16,300 --> 01:28:19,400
Millennials are morning and
evening star, whatever you have,

1536
01:28:19,500 --> 01:28:22,300
Joseph, you have hyerim, you
have Brigham as the president of

1537
01:28:22,300 --> 01:28:25,800
the twelve.
They're teaching publicly that

1538
01:28:25,800 --> 01:28:29,400
man can become like God, you
know, and where did that go?

1539
01:28:29,600 --> 01:28:33,700
Where was, you know, where did
that golden thread of theology

1540
01:28:33,700 --> 01:28:35,400
continue?
Right.

1541
01:28:35,700 --> 01:28:38,200
That's so important to me.
You know, that I can be like my

1542
01:28:38,200 --> 01:28:43,700
heavenly father and and
participate by type and Shadow.

1543
01:28:43,800 --> 01:28:46,800
As you've said, in these in all
the elements of the godhead and

1544
01:28:46,800 --> 01:28:49,400
even in, what is it in
Colossians in the New Testament,

1545
01:28:49,900 --> 01:28:52,900
You know it says that the
fullness of the godhead in

1546
01:28:52,900 --> 01:28:56,400
dwelled in Christ bodily right?
I think it's such an interesting

1547
01:28:56,500 --> 01:29:01,300
scripture, interesting way to
put that is you know he had the

1548
01:29:01,300 --> 01:29:05,900
attributes by of or archetypes
of all three in him.

1549
01:29:05,900 --> 01:29:08,500
Even though he hit me, he was
the son, he wasn't the father,

1550
01:29:08,500 --> 01:29:12,500
he wasn't the Holy Ghost but he
had the attributes and had and

1551
01:29:12,500 --> 01:29:16,400
in ways had fulfilled the roles
of all three, right?

1552
01:29:16,700 --> 01:29:19,900
And what is it that we get to do
the same thing that You said

1553
01:29:19,900 --> 01:29:23,500
earlier, we get to be Father's,
we get to work.

1554
01:29:23,500 --> 01:29:27,000
The work of a savior on Mount
Zion, we get to testify of the

1555
01:29:27,000 --> 01:29:31,300
father and the son and in that
we hopefully are putting in us,

1556
01:29:31,400 --> 01:29:33,700
you know, in the temple.
Well, here's where our bodies

1557
01:29:33,700 --> 01:29:36,000
are supposed to Temples the
spirit of God and the fullness

1558
01:29:36,000 --> 01:29:39,500
of the attributes of the godhead
bodily in our soul, right?

1559
01:29:39,500 --> 01:29:43,500
And we get to be joint heirs.
Yeah, with Christ and God, you

1560
01:29:43,500 --> 01:29:47,300
know, doing that.
And so we have the records from

1561
01:29:47,300 --> 01:29:51,000
novel before the martyrdom that
this was You taught, you know.

1562
01:29:51,000 --> 01:29:54,200
And so I don't know if like I
said, if we're else was this

1563
01:29:54,200 --> 01:29:59,500
top, there are LDS didn't do it.
You know, the the Cutler rights

1564
01:29:59,800 --> 01:30:03,300
backtracked on it even though
alpheus Cutler performs plural,

1565
01:30:03,300 --> 01:30:07,200
marriages, you know, and I don't
know if you live polygamy but he

1566
01:30:07,200 --> 01:30:11,300
performed plural marriages, you
know, lot line and white

1567
01:30:11,400 --> 01:30:15,500
continue plural marriage down in
zodiac, Texas and a form of the

1568
01:30:15,500 --> 01:30:19,200
endowment.
But to what end?

1569
01:30:19,700 --> 01:30:23,700
To what end to what end where I
would be willing to look at the

1570
01:30:23,700 --> 01:30:29,400
claims if a group existed today
that embodied all the measures

1571
01:30:29,400 --> 01:30:32,400
that Joseph Smith was laying
down, right?

1572
01:30:32,700 --> 01:30:34,900
But through, Brigham Young and
John Taylor.

1573
01:30:34,900 --> 01:30:38,200
That's the only way that that
golden thread continued.

1574
01:30:38,300 --> 01:30:42,900
And so that's the golden thread,
the iron Rod to me is that's

1575
01:30:42,900 --> 01:30:45,700
the, that's the way I test those
things and it because it's

1576
01:30:45,700 --> 01:30:47,800
consistent with what Joseph
revealed.

1577
01:30:48,500 --> 01:30:50,800
At the Inception of the
restoration.

1578
01:30:51,500 --> 01:30:54,900
Yeah yeah.
I would say this to in addition

1579
01:30:54,900 --> 01:31:00,700
to understanding who Joseph was,
I think another big key to

1580
01:31:02,000 --> 01:31:07,600
developing discernment is
getting real familiar with what

1581
01:31:09,400 --> 01:31:15,500
What truth feels like and I know
that sounds kind of soj hair.

1582
01:31:16,200 --> 01:31:22,600
Sure but there's a reason that
that old saying stands true.

1583
01:31:22,600 --> 01:31:27,500
Today, the truth has a certain
ring to it and we have to get

1584
01:31:27,500 --> 01:31:34,400
very comfortable. with being in
a position to feel what truth is

1585
01:31:34,400 --> 01:31:40,000
because if we can't feel it, I
spoke earlier about discernment

1586
01:31:40,000 --> 01:31:44,900
you know being somewhat mental
but this is the part that goes

1587
01:31:44,900 --> 01:31:46,600
to the heart, you should feel
that.

1588
01:31:46,600 --> 01:31:51,700
I remember when I first started
discovering the doctrines of

1589
01:31:51,708 --> 01:31:57,400
Mormonism and I'm like, I always
knew that I I don't know how

1590
01:31:57,400 --> 01:32:01,900
cause I've never heard it, but I
remember that or that feels

1591
01:32:01,900 --> 01:32:06,400
right and we have to be careful
when we start talking about.

1592
01:32:07,000 --> 01:32:09,400
In right?
But we should recognize those

1593
01:32:09,400 --> 01:32:14,700
truths absolutely and be
comfortable with that because if

1594
01:32:14,700 --> 01:32:18,800
we if we know what truth feels
like and I know this must sound

1595
01:32:18,800 --> 01:32:20,900
really esoteric.
I hope people are understanding

1596
01:32:20,900 --> 01:32:24,600
what I'm saying here.
But if truth if you get familiar

1597
01:32:24,600 --> 01:32:30,100
with what truth feels like, If
someone teaches you something

1598
01:32:30,100 --> 01:32:36,800
that doesn't have that same feel
run run don't walk run right?

1599
01:32:36,800 --> 01:32:39,500
And so that's that's testing the
sphere all right what it feels

1600
01:32:39,500 --> 01:32:45,100
like that's how I would Define
that and some Spirits just don't

1601
01:32:45,100 --> 01:32:49,400
match dude the spirit of a
certain message will not match

1602
01:32:49,400 --> 01:32:53,800
the Holy Ghost and that's where
you run like you're saying and

1603
01:32:54,000 --> 01:32:56,000
you can tell you can tell the
difference you or you could look

1604
01:32:56,000 --> 01:32:59,600
at the fruits to it sometimes.
It's sometimes that's obvious.

1605
01:32:59,600 --> 01:33:04,500
Sometimes it's not as obvious
and I would give Grace to people

1606
01:33:04,500 --> 01:33:07,400
to, you know, it's not like the
Lord is going to condemn you for

1607
01:33:07,600 --> 01:33:10,900
asking a question about, you
know what, when it is murky

1608
01:33:11,000 --> 01:33:12,500
right?
When you are in these Mists of

1609
01:33:12,500 --> 01:33:15,800
darkness and you can't and you
are trying to figure it out, you

1610
01:33:15,800 --> 01:33:18,200
know, it's like you're not under
condemnation when you're trying

1611
01:33:18,200 --> 01:33:20,600
to figure it out right either?
I right?

1612
01:33:20,600 --> 01:33:26,200
And and so but you gotta figure
it out but it's it's all sorts

1613
01:33:26,200 --> 01:33:29,800
of things there's for There's a
this one I believe in the catch.

1614
01:33:30,200 --> 01:33:32,800
This is let's see if we can
relate this.

1615
01:33:33,000 --> 01:33:36,400
I believe to have your calling
and election made sure you need

1616
01:33:36,500 --> 01:33:41,100
a three-fold testimony of an
experience with the Savior that

1617
01:33:41,100 --> 01:33:45,900
is site that is touch and that
is hearing from his lips.

1618
01:33:45,900 --> 01:33:47,700
Good thou good and faithful
servant.

1619
01:33:47,700 --> 01:33:50,100
You have lot with me in my
kingdom, right?

1620
01:33:50,700 --> 01:33:53,700
Right.
And and so it's all three of

1621
01:33:53,708 --> 01:33:55,800
those and there's more details
than just that too.

1622
01:33:56,000 --> 01:33:58,900
But that's But what the calling
election made, sure.

1623
01:33:58,900 --> 01:34:01,000
It encapsulate Siz all three of
those things.

1624
01:34:01,000 --> 01:34:04,200
I believe a person can see a
vision of Christ even see Christ

1625
01:34:04,400 --> 01:34:07,700
you know but if you don't get
that promise from his mouth and

1626
01:34:07,700 --> 01:34:10,500
physical contact, where you can
either feel his hands on your

1627
01:34:10,500 --> 01:34:15,100
head or feel the wounds in his
hands or in his feet, you don't

1628
01:34:15,100 --> 01:34:17,600
that you're not there yet.
You know, you're not there

1629
01:34:17,600 --> 01:34:19,600
you've gotten something that's
great and fantastic.

1630
01:34:19,800 --> 01:34:22,500
I think don't get me wrong, or
maybe you haven't seen what

1631
01:34:22,500 --> 01:34:24,300
you've heard his voice, right?
But you haven't seen him, right?

1632
01:34:24,300 --> 01:34:27,600
But you need all three of these
things that are concrete to Have

1633
01:34:27,600 --> 01:34:29,900
to save that you've obtained,
your calling election made sure.

1634
01:34:30,000 --> 01:34:34,100
And so to have this discernment,
you have to be familiar with the

1635
01:34:34,100 --> 01:34:36,400
scriptures.
You have to be familiar with the

1636
01:34:36,400 --> 01:34:41,100
oracles living and dead, you
know and you have to seek to get

1637
01:34:41,100 --> 01:34:45,300
them yourself.
I would say, you know, you

1638
01:34:45,300 --> 01:34:48,100
because you got to have the Holy
Ghost with you, in the, Holy

1639
01:34:48,100 --> 01:34:51,600
Ghost is going to give you the
tongue of angels, right?

1640
01:34:51,600 --> 01:34:54,300
As it says, in the Book of
Mormon or oracle's or whatever

1641
01:34:54,300 --> 01:34:57,900
you want to call them, but you
gotta line up pretty well, I

1642
01:34:57,900 --> 01:35:00,500
think and if they do, I think
you've you'll learn and know

1643
01:35:00,500 --> 01:35:02,500
what what the gospel looks like
in.

1644
01:35:02,500 --> 01:35:04,300
You're not going to be fazed by
annotations.

1645
01:35:04,700 --> 01:35:12,000
No, and look, I said it earlier
and I really mean this time.

1646
01:35:12,200 --> 01:35:13,400
You're only going to get
tougher.

1647
01:35:15,200 --> 01:35:18,900
And I think there's a lot of
people who haven't yet, who are

1648
01:35:18,900 --> 01:35:21,600
about to experience that Dark
Night of the Soul.

1649
01:35:26,100 --> 01:35:29,200
Something else that I kind of
struggled with and went back and

1650
01:35:29,200 --> 01:35:36,000
forth on when I was thinking
about how we gain discernment

1651
01:35:36,600 --> 01:35:39,600
says, sometimes we need help
with that, right?

1652
01:35:39,700 --> 01:35:45,200
We have to have, in my opinion,
we have to surround ourselves

1653
01:35:45,200 --> 01:35:48,300
with people who are well
anchored in the gospel.

1654
01:35:48,900 --> 01:35:53,700
So that when we do ask questions
and maybe come up with

1655
01:35:53,700 --> 01:35:58,300
conclusions that are less than
or The docks. there's someone

1656
01:35:58,300 --> 01:36:01,900
there to be like I think you're
bumped your head this morning,

1657
01:36:01,900 --> 01:36:04,600
when you gotta beg.
So that's, that's a bat-crap

1658
01:36:04,600 --> 01:36:08,000
crazy idea, right?
And you can do it even nicer

1659
01:36:08,000 --> 01:36:10,800
than that, to maybe they'll be
but because I was going, well, I

1660
01:36:10,808 --> 01:36:14,700
was I was giving you the Dave
that's that's what Dave does.

1661
01:36:14,700 --> 01:36:19,700
It is a so after my mission for
the church today I got so into

1662
01:36:19,700 --> 01:36:22,400
like always esoteric like deep
doctrines right?

1663
01:36:22,400 --> 01:36:25,500
And now I know how little I
knew, you know, five years later

1664
01:36:26,700 --> 01:36:31,500
and I, you know, I I know more
by sticking Going to, you know,

1665
01:36:31,700 --> 01:36:34,800
the journal discourses, the
scriptures and is trying to live

1666
01:36:34,800 --> 01:36:37,300
my life in a way that have the
constant companionship of the

1667
01:36:37,300 --> 01:36:41,400
Holy Ghost, then trying to
rewire and reframe some some

1668
01:36:41,400 --> 01:36:43,700
scripture somewhere.
But, you know, that talks about

1669
01:36:43,800 --> 01:36:49,700
multiple mortalities potentially
alluding to that or or you name

1670
01:36:49,700 --> 01:36:53,000
it, there's this different
things out there and I feel like

1671
01:36:53,000 --> 01:36:56,100
the direction my life is better.
When I've understood clearly,

1672
01:36:56,300 --> 01:37:00,800
what was laid out for us to
follow through Joseph Smith And

1673
01:37:01,300 --> 01:37:03,100
that's still out in there for us
to obtain.

1674
01:37:03,500 --> 01:37:06,700
You know, we get so distracted
to buy this, buy these things

1675
01:37:07,300 --> 01:37:09,500
and that should be another
witness to us.

1676
01:37:09,500 --> 01:37:13,900
You know that you know that the
things that Joseph did reveal

1677
01:37:13,900 --> 01:37:16,000
are the true things.
You know, there's so many things

1678
01:37:16,000 --> 01:37:19,200
that want to, you know, take our
attention here, there or

1679
01:37:19,200 --> 01:37:22,200
whatever.
Redstone, it's pretty simple

1680
01:37:22,200 --> 01:37:24,800
though.
We need to we need to have a

1681
01:37:25,100 --> 01:37:27,600
Brigham Young.
Also used the iron Rod has an

1682
01:37:27,600 --> 01:37:30,100
example.
He said the ceilings that are

1683
01:37:30,100 --> 01:37:33,800
done between the families will
be an iron rod.

1684
01:37:33,800 --> 01:37:37,500
And without that there is no
exaltation for the Human family

1685
01:37:37,800 --> 01:37:40,400
because anything that's not
attached to that will not be

1686
01:37:40,400 --> 01:37:43,900
connected to the tree of life.
You know which is a genealogical

1687
01:37:44,000 --> 01:37:47,500
tree, right?
Jenny illogical Tree of Life of

1688
01:37:47,700 --> 01:37:49,400
heavenly parents and
grandparents.

1689
01:37:50,200 --> 01:37:53,600
And so how do we do that?
What does the endowment tissue

1690
01:37:53,700 --> 01:37:57,600
to you know, when you look at
and break down the principles of

1691
01:37:57,600 --> 01:38:00,800
the covenants that are made
through those ordinances can you

1692
01:38:00,800 --> 01:38:03,800
say those are bad things to keep
the law of Chastity and keeps

1693
01:38:03,800 --> 01:38:07,600
the law of consecration to live
the law of God to live the law

1694
01:38:07,600 --> 01:38:09,700
of sacrifice.
Can you say that that's evil

1695
01:38:09,700 --> 01:38:12,100
fruits right there?
Absolutely not.

1696
01:38:12,200 --> 01:38:14,200
No.
And so people have the issues

1697
01:38:14,200 --> 01:38:18,000
with these things and it's like
This is knows are the instruct

1698
01:38:18,000 --> 01:38:19,900
that's instruction.
Manual to teach you how to get

1699
01:38:19,900 --> 01:38:23,800
into heaven by changing your
heart into a person that wants

1700
01:38:23,800 --> 01:38:26,000
to not cheat on their wife or
husband by living the law of

1701
01:38:26,000 --> 01:38:29,300
Chastity that wants to live
according to the word of God in

1702
01:38:29,308 --> 01:38:31,000
the Bible Book of Mormon
Doctrine and Covenants and pearl

1703
01:38:31,000 --> 01:38:34,800
of great price that wants to
give of their substance to the

1704
01:38:34,800 --> 01:38:37,600
poor and the needy, why would
you want to be a kind of person

1705
01:38:37,600 --> 01:38:40,200
like that?
You know those are the it's

1706
01:38:40,200 --> 01:38:44,000
that's what tells us to be like
God and it does hold us at least

1707
01:38:44,000 --> 01:38:46,800
originally to a standard that if
you These.

1708
01:38:47,100 --> 01:38:49,300
Well, if you don't you're gonna
fail, right?

1709
01:38:49,300 --> 01:38:52,900
You're going to fail in, trying
to walk up to God's Excellence,

1710
01:38:53,000 --> 01:38:54,400
but then you get up and you do
it again.

1711
01:38:54,400 --> 01:38:56,800
You don't break your covenants
by revealing the things that

1712
01:38:56,800 --> 01:38:58,400
you're not meant to reveal
right.

1713
01:38:58,500 --> 01:39:01,200
People get so caught up on that,
they're not focused on the

1714
01:39:01,200 --> 01:39:05,400
blessings and what it's meant to
do to change your heart.

1715
01:39:05,600 --> 01:39:10,000
You know, you bring up a good
point there which is as human

1716
01:39:10,000 --> 01:39:12,700
beings.
For some reason, we seem to

1717
01:39:12,700 --> 01:39:17,500
focus on all the prohibitions
and never the Calls to action,

1718
01:39:17,900 --> 01:39:20,700
right?
I think, I think that's probably

1719
01:39:21,100 --> 01:39:25,600
Illustrated in in the in the
word of wisdom, more than any

1720
01:39:25,600 --> 01:39:28,200
other Revelation.
I can think of right.

1721
01:39:29,700 --> 01:39:34,800
You know the word of wisdom says
you know, I don't drink hard,

1722
01:39:34,900 --> 01:39:40,200
hard liquor, don't drink, hot
drinks, tobacco's not for for

1723
01:39:40,200 --> 01:39:44,600
the body.
And so we hyper-focus on that,

1724
01:39:44,900 --> 01:39:48,200
what we miss out on is eat
fruit?

1725
01:39:48,200 --> 01:39:50,500
That is within its season,
right?

1726
01:39:51,700 --> 01:39:55,800
The things that the Lord is
telling you to do for some

1727
01:39:55,800 --> 01:39:58,600
reason, I seem to really hyper
fixate, I don't know if it's

1728
01:39:58,600 --> 01:40:01,700
because we were all raised on.
Well, no, even the Ten

1729
01:40:01,700 --> 01:40:04,300
Commandments there, there are
certain Commissions in those.

1730
01:40:04,300 --> 01:40:08,400
I have no idea why it is.
We hyper-focus on the

1731
01:40:08,400 --> 01:40:12,100
prohibitions rather than the
commission's of right.

1732
01:40:12,200 --> 01:40:15,400
Sniffs.
And so on the word of wisdom to,

1733
01:40:15,400 --> 01:40:17,200
you know, and I'm fine, I'll
keep the word of wisdom, not

1734
01:40:17,200 --> 01:40:19,600
nearly, as well as I should, you
know, like the spirit of it.

1735
01:40:19,600 --> 01:40:21,100
It's terrible.
Because I know what the

1736
01:40:21,100 --> 01:40:23,300
blessings are because I've been
to the temple.

1737
01:40:23,300 --> 01:40:25,100
What is this?
A you'll have health in the

1738
01:40:25,100 --> 01:40:27,900
navel and Marrow in your bones.
It says that right there in

1739
01:40:27,900 --> 01:40:30,900
section 89, that's a tie in
right?

1740
01:40:30,900 --> 01:40:34,500
To the mysteries of godliness.
And I hate it because I know I'm

1741
01:40:34,500 --> 01:40:36,100
guilty of not living a little
nervous.

1742
01:40:36,100 --> 01:40:41,500
This is yeah, yeah, no, I know
it's a sick there, you know, on

1743
01:40:41,500 --> 01:40:45,100
a certain level.
Oil and, you know, so I do I

1744
01:40:45,108 --> 01:40:48,300
even try to discern my own life
you know maybe I do I justify

1745
01:40:48,300 --> 01:40:51,500
myself and not do it, you know
it's hard man to you know to

1746
01:40:51,500 --> 01:40:56,500
live that is so hard but we do
need to live every word that

1747
01:40:56,500 --> 01:41:00,300
comes from the mouth of God and
although there's certain things

1748
01:41:00,800 --> 01:41:02,500
no no I'll leave it there.
I'm gonna bow is about to

1749
01:41:02,508 --> 01:41:05,200
backtrack, I'm not gonna do
that.

1750
01:41:06,600 --> 01:41:08,200
You guys do not kill me here,
bro.

1751
01:41:08,300 --> 01:41:11,100
After all we've been through,
you're gonna you're gonna start

1752
01:41:11,100 --> 01:41:14,200
down the road.
That you're not going to finish.

1753
01:41:14,300 --> 01:41:15,400
Okay.
All right.

1754
01:41:15,400 --> 01:41:19,100
I'll know I had, I was gonna say
it says not like instrument the

1755
01:41:19,100 --> 01:41:20,600
Commandment or constraint, you
know?

1756
01:41:20,600 --> 01:41:23,200
And so like, is that binding?
I don't know.

1757
01:41:23,200 --> 01:41:26,300
I that's what I struggle with
personally is on those things,

1758
01:41:26,300 --> 01:41:30,100
you know, as I drink a Coke, or
energy Drinker, or whatever, you

1759
01:41:30,100 --> 01:41:33,400
know, and, and I know that's not
the spirit of that wall, you

1760
01:41:33,400 --> 01:41:37,300
know, there's there's some what,
you know, but I do other things,

1761
01:41:37,300 --> 01:41:39,400
you know, where I know I would
do other things pertaining to

1762
01:41:39,400 --> 01:41:42,000
those, you know, that law, if it
was convenient.

1763
01:41:42,100 --> 01:41:44,700
If I Had a Farm or whatever,
dude, I would, totally be like,

1764
01:41:44,700 --> 01:41:46,700
yeah, I'm producing my own food.
I want to eat fruit in its

1765
01:41:46,700 --> 01:41:51,600
season and all that, you know.
But you live out of a grocery

1766
01:41:51,600 --> 01:41:54,000
store and it gets a lot harder
to pay attention to that kind of

1767
01:41:54,008 --> 01:41:57,300
stuff, right?
I can bear testimony of this

1768
01:41:57,300 --> 01:42:03,300
personally so I'll share a story
that I have never revealed on

1769
01:42:03,300 --> 01:42:05,600
the podcast here.
See, I'm willing to meet you.

1770
01:42:05,900 --> 01:42:09,000
You are a little something.
I'll reveal something, I'll let

1771
01:42:09,000 --> 01:42:11,700
you make fun of my age on my
podcast.

1772
01:42:12,100 --> 01:42:15,800
I'll I'm willing to meet you
halfway anyway.

1773
01:42:17,500 --> 01:42:21,500
I went about how I want to say
it was about 2018.

1774
01:42:21,800 --> 01:42:26,700
Now, maybe 2017.
I got salmonella and I got

1775
01:42:26,700 --> 01:42:33,500
salmonella like I don't think.
Anybody in my family has ever

1776
01:42:33,500 --> 01:42:36,700
had salmonella, maybe the whole
Human family, like literally

1777
01:42:36,700 --> 01:42:40,200
day, it was horrible.
I thought I was dying.

1778
01:42:40,300 --> 01:42:44,500
That's not an exaggeration.
Like, you know, without getting

1779
01:42:44,500 --> 01:42:46,100
gruesome.
There were a few signs there

1780
01:42:46,100 --> 01:42:50,300
that pointed towards cancer and
I was like, well, it's been a

1781
01:42:50,300 --> 01:42:53,200
good run time to hit that time
card, right?

1782
01:42:53,500 --> 01:42:57,800
So I go into the doctor and the
doctors like first off, stop

1783
01:42:57,800 --> 01:42:59,600
freaking out.
Let's run some tests.

1784
01:42:59,700 --> 01:43:03,900
You see what's going on.
So he runs some tests and you

1785
01:43:03,900 --> 01:43:05,300
have to understand the
relationship.

1786
01:43:05,300 --> 01:43:08,800
I have with my doctor.
My doctor is very old school and

1787
01:43:08,800 --> 01:43:12,600
he calls me back up and goes,
son, did you take a bath with

1788
01:43:12,600 --> 01:43:17,300
raw chicken?
And I was like, no, no, no.

1789
01:43:17,700 --> 01:43:20,900
And he goes because you've got
salmonella like, I've never

1790
01:43:20,900 --> 01:43:24,000
seen.
He's like, this is nuts.

1791
01:43:24,000 --> 01:43:27,600
He's like, so here's some,
here's some pills, you should be

1792
01:43:27,600 --> 01:43:30,800
good to go, you know?
This should get rid of it.

1793
01:43:30,800 --> 01:43:35,200
Well, it did, but there were
some lingering side effects and

1794
01:43:35,200 --> 01:43:37,800
I went to see a
gastroenterologist about it and

1795
01:43:37,800 --> 01:43:39,300
they're like, oh no, we've seen
this.

1796
01:43:39,600 --> 01:43:42,200
You will never again.
Eat certain nightshade

1797
01:43:42,200 --> 01:43:46,400
vegetables or dairy.
See you later off.

1798
01:43:46,400 --> 01:43:49,800
You go.
Dang, so I struggled with that

1799
01:43:49,800 --> 01:43:53,900
for a long time.
Didn't seem like I'm afraid

1800
01:43:54,400 --> 01:43:57,400
looking at it and years.
It doesn't seem too long, but it

1801
01:43:57,400 --> 01:43:59,300
was it was rough.
Like my guts would just

1802
01:43:59,300 --> 01:44:02,000
constantly.
Currently be twisted just hurt.

1803
01:44:03,100 --> 01:44:07,700
And I went down to where our
church headquarters were and

1804
01:44:07,700 --> 01:44:10,800
they they predominantly grow,
most of their own food.

1805
01:44:11,200 --> 01:44:15,700
Awesome.
And dude, I was down there off

1806
01:44:15,700 --> 01:44:20,000
and on for I'm still down there
off and on quite a bit, but I

1807
01:44:21,500 --> 01:44:24,800
After about, I don't know, four
or five trips down there and

1808
01:44:24,800 --> 01:44:29,000
eating the same things they did.
Dude, my guts have been fine.

1809
01:44:29,600 --> 01:44:34,500
That's also have any problems
and I really, really think that

1810
01:44:34,500 --> 01:44:39,200
that little part in the word of
wisdom about conspiring men in

1811
01:44:39,200 --> 01:44:44,500
the last days.
Has more truth to it than any of

1812
01:44:44,500 --> 01:44:47,300
us want to admit.
That's very true.

1813
01:44:47,500 --> 01:44:50,300
You know, and we could, we could
do a whole other podcast episode

1814
01:44:50,300 --> 01:44:53,500
on talking about, you know,
something that I believe in is

1815
01:44:53,500 --> 01:44:55,600
the, you know, ideal way to
live.

1816
01:44:55,600 --> 01:44:57,800
The gospel is agrarian.
Yeah.

1817
01:44:57,800 --> 01:45:00,400
You know it's there's a there's
a paper that was written, was

1818
01:45:01,200 --> 01:45:05,300
called the pursuit of the Mormon
agrarian ideal, the sedative you

1819
01:45:05,300 --> 01:45:07,100
can read personally, it's
fantastic.

1820
01:45:07,200 --> 01:45:09,700
Yeah, pressure.
That's what it's only, like, six

1821
01:45:09,700 --> 01:45:13,100
to eight pages.
Has put a talks about all, you

1822
01:45:13,100 --> 01:45:16,200
know, the history of the church
and programs to get people by

1823
01:45:16,200 --> 01:45:18,500
out of the cities and into the
rural areas in a toddy, gently

1824
01:45:18,500 --> 01:45:21,600
quotes, general authorities
about how, you know, how the

1825
01:45:21,600 --> 01:45:23,700
whole world is dependent on the
farmers, you know.

1826
01:45:23,800 --> 01:45:25,700
And that's one of the best
professions that you can have

1827
01:45:25,700 --> 01:45:28,500
say one guys, wrote the Joseph
have strength or something, you

1828
01:45:28,500 --> 01:45:29,800
know.
I just want to, I want to go to

1829
01:45:29,800 --> 01:45:32,900
the city, I want to learn how to
be an accountant, my fault.

1830
01:45:32,900 --> 01:45:35,400
But my father wants to wants me
on the farm.

1831
01:45:35,400 --> 01:45:38,800
What should I do?
And goes if Smith's like to stay

1832
01:45:38,800 --> 01:45:43,300
on the farm, marry a good girl.
And raise a good family, you

1833
01:45:43,300 --> 01:45:46,200
know that's what we need.
You know, and people look at

1834
01:45:46,200 --> 01:45:48,800
that as like some sort of
slavery do I would I would

1835
01:45:48,800 --> 01:45:52,300
reject everything.
I have to do door that I'm

1836
01:45:52,300 --> 01:45:54,000
forced to temporarily to make a
living.

1837
01:45:54,000 --> 01:45:58,300
If I could do that in the bottle
and I would, dude, 100%.

1838
01:45:58,400 --> 01:46:01,000
And at least you're figuring
this out young, right?

1839
01:46:01,000 --> 01:46:02,800
It took me a while to figure
this out.

1840
01:46:03,000 --> 01:46:06,300
I, you know, in my Advanced
years, if you've as you've been

1841
01:46:06,300 --> 01:46:09,900
so kind of point out a few times
on the podcast, it was one time.

1842
01:46:10,800 --> 01:46:13,400
Hi, I don't remember that.
I feel like it was an utter

1843
01:46:13,400 --> 01:46:18,700
assault upon my my agent self.
But no.

1844
01:46:18,700 --> 01:46:24,200
I the older I get the more I'm
like yeah there ain't nothing

1845
01:46:24,200 --> 01:46:26,600
wrong with the desert.
Stick me out in the desert.

1846
01:46:26,600 --> 01:46:29,300
Stick me in the mountains
somewhere.

1847
01:46:30,500 --> 01:46:35,700
I'm I see the crap along the
Wasatch Front and I'm like, huh.

1848
01:46:36,600 --> 01:46:39,100
I gotta get out of here.
I get my family out of here.

1849
01:46:39,800 --> 01:46:41,900
Yeah.
And I'm right there with you.

1850
01:46:41,900 --> 01:46:43,900
I know exactly what you're
talking about.

1851
01:46:44,900 --> 01:46:48,800
So, this crazy my dad grew up in
Orem when it was a, it was a

1852
01:46:48,800 --> 01:46:50,800
rural town, full of farms and
Orchards.

1853
01:46:50,900 --> 01:46:54,000
That's how he described it.
And he said, Lehi Utah wasn't

1854
01:46:54,000 --> 01:46:57,000
even on the map practically when
he was growing up and you just

1855
01:46:57,000 --> 01:46:59,500
look at what it is now.
And it's, it's insane.

1856
01:46:59,800 --> 01:47:02,100
And I'm with you, dude.
I live.

1857
01:47:02,300 --> 01:47:06,100
I live rurally now I don't have
my own land but I live in the

1858
01:47:06,100 --> 01:47:07,600
sticks.
I live in the boonies and that's

1859
01:47:07,600 --> 01:47:10,900
fantastic in a big way.
I wish I could live in the

1860
01:47:10,900 --> 01:47:13,800
desert a little bit.
I would love a change of pace

1861
01:47:13,800 --> 01:47:16,800
that way.
I like a drier climate then when

1862
01:47:16,800 --> 01:47:22,200
I have currently, but living off
the land is isn't what the Lord

1863
01:47:22,200 --> 01:47:25,600
commanded, you know, you know,
Adam and Eve's, you know, as a,

1864
01:47:25,800 --> 01:47:28,500
you know, work together, go till
till the Earth, right?

1865
01:47:28,500 --> 01:47:30,600
And yeah, they work together to
do that.

1866
01:47:30,600 --> 01:47:33,300
And it's just like from the very
beginning you have this.

1867
01:47:33,500 --> 01:47:38,700
This model of what a Godly
family looks like and I continue

1868
01:47:38,900 --> 01:47:43,300
using you see the warnings, you
know, when changes happen to

1869
01:47:43,300 --> 01:47:45,800
that and you have a nice day
Shh, it's in chapter 5.

1870
01:47:45,800 --> 01:47:49,000
I think maybe it's chapter 8
where he says woe unto them that

1871
01:47:49,000 --> 01:47:52,800
join house to house and link
fence to fence and Layfield.

1872
01:47:53,900 --> 01:47:56,600
Field that there be no place
left that.

1873
01:47:56,600 --> 01:48:01,700
Yeah, he stopped development.
I would agree with that.

1874
01:48:01,700 --> 01:48:07,000
But then then don't we have to
contend with Joseph's idea

1875
01:48:07,000 --> 01:48:10,000
building Zion a holy city to
God.

1876
01:48:10,200 --> 01:48:13,400
Well, those are cities that were
supposed to not exceed a certain

1877
01:48:13,400 --> 01:48:16,200
population density.
Ole Anderson be, abundant

1878
01:48:16,200 --> 01:48:19,000
Farmland around the city
exactly.

1879
01:48:19,000 --> 01:48:20,600
Yep.
Yep.

1880
01:48:20,600 --> 01:48:26,700
Nope, you're 100% right.
So yeah dude, good stuff there.

1881
01:48:26,700 --> 01:48:28,700
Anything we didn't get to cover
you want to cover.

1882
01:48:28,900 --> 01:48:33,300
We talked about how the Book of
Mormon is Promised as a stepping

1883
01:48:33,300 --> 01:48:34,900
stone, to further light of
knowledge.

1884
01:48:35,000 --> 01:48:36,800
You know, I don't know if
there's anything else you wanted

1885
01:48:36,800 --> 01:48:40,600
to touch on on that anymore.
I want to have more concrete

1886
01:48:40,600 --> 01:48:44,000
answers on discernment and I
don't know, maybe, you know, I

1887
01:48:44,000 --> 01:48:45,100
pray the Lord.
Can give me something

1888
01:48:45,100 --> 01:48:49,600
intelligent to say right now,
maybe, because I do feel

1889
01:48:49,600 --> 01:48:52,700
personally a weakness in this
where so much of what we've

1890
01:48:52,700 --> 01:48:54,700
discussed does seem to be
subjective.

1891
01:48:54,700 --> 01:48:56,800
Like, okay, I don't think it
will come over here.

1892
01:48:56,800 --> 01:49:00,800
Bible here, you don't take what
Joseph Smith says here, and

1893
01:49:00,800 --> 01:49:03,600
maybe you could frame it in a
way that's like a surveying

1894
01:49:03,600 --> 01:49:05,700
analogy, but you got to have
multiple points of reference,

1895
01:49:05,700 --> 01:49:08,900
right?
So, in order to get some

1896
01:49:08,900 --> 01:49:11,600
calculations or something, maybe
you can build that into

1897
01:49:11,600 --> 01:49:15,600
something better than I can, but
you got to have Four Points of

1898
01:49:16,000 --> 01:49:21,600
contact to I think to, you know,
to help you have a surety and

1899
01:49:21,600 --> 01:49:23,400
that's kind of what the that
analogy.

1900
01:49:23,400 --> 01:49:26,100
I was getting with without
threefold witness of receiving

1901
01:49:26,400 --> 01:49:29,000
the Christ and you're calling an
election made sure is there's

1902
01:49:29,000 --> 01:49:35,500
three points of contact or more
you know is and there's five

1903
01:49:35,500 --> 01:49:38,700
laws in the endowment you know,
five laws of social Fellowship.

1904
01:49:39,100 --> 01:49:41,200
You all have that you have to
work on that at 5 Points of

1905
01:49:41,200 --> 01:49:44,200
reference that gets you into the
presence of God, you know?

1906
01:49:44,300 --> 01:49:47,100
Yep.
Yep, I'll say this, I got an

1907
01:49:47,100 --> 01:49:50,100
analogy here for you.
It's what we call in surveying a

1908
01:49:50,100 --> 01:49:53,200
calibration.
So, when you first go out and

1909
01:49:53,200 --> 01:49:57,900
you set up a GPS and you're
getting ready to go survey, you

1910
01:49:58,300 --> 01:50:01,400
are, are essentially taking
measurements and what's called

1911
01:50:01,400 --> 01:50:05,900
wgs84.
It's a version of raw Latin Wong

1912
01:50:06,000 --> 01:50:08,800
right now.
Latin long doesn't work real

1913
01:50:08,800 --> 01:50:12,600
good to actually stake out a
location.

1914
01:50:13,700 --> 01:50:17,900
Within a hundredth of a foot,
it's just too big of a system so

1915
01:50:17,900 --> 01:50:22,000
you scale that and you scale
that too.

1916
01:50:23,600 --> 01:50:27,000
To the the the dimensions of
your project.

1917
01:50:27,300 --> 01:50:30,600
So the general rule is to to
calibrate one.

1918
01:50:30,600 --> 01:50:32,700
Two, check three points of
reference.

1919
01:50:33,300 --> 01:50:38,000
So you you hang your hat on one
point for me, I would always

1920
01:50:38,200 --> 01:50:43,500
hang your hat on the scriptures.
Maybe another pick any other one

1921
01:50:43,500 --> 01:50:46,900
you want, right?
Whether that is the words of the

1922
01:50:46,900 --> 01:50:50,300
modern day Prophet, you know,
the the, the, the prophets of

1923
01:50:50,300 --> 01:50:56,100
the early restoration or whether
that's a testimony to you by the

1924
01:50:56,100 --> 01:50:59,900
Holy Ghost.
That's your second reference

1925
01:50:59,900 --> 01:51:03,400
point, that will give you your
basis of bearing that will give

1926
01:51:03,400 --> 01:51:07,000
you your line and then one last
check.

1927
01:51:07,500 --> 01:51:11,400
Go hit any of those other.
Principles.

1928
01:51:11,400 --> 01:51:15,900
We brought up as a check, get
your basics of bearing and then

1929
01:51:15,900 --> 01:51:20,100
check another point because in
that you will gain certainty.

1930
01:51:20,300 --> 01:51:22,600
I like that.
I like that a lot.

1931
01:51:22,700 --> 01:51:24,700
So yeah.
I think you know I'd hang my hat

1932
01:51:24,700 --> 01:51:27,000
on the principle of the
atonement and Resurrection you

1933
01:51:27,000 --> 01:51:30,000
know, for sure, you know more
specifically, you know, that's

1934
01:51:30,000 --> 01:51:33,200
what the scriptures testify of
essentially, you know, we going

1935
01:51:33,200 --> 01:51:34,100
back to that.
Yeah.

1936
01:51:34,100 --> 01:51:35,900
Story about climate and Barnabas
you.

1937
01:51:35,900 --> 01:51:38,900
Got this guy who's so worried
about what the whole point of

1938
01:51:38,900 --> 01:51:41,400
religion is, is I Do.
Is there a Life after death.

1939
01:51:41,400 --> 01:51:43,700
And if there was a life after
death was their life before,

1940
01:51:44,200 --> 01:51:46,800
right?
And so we have this Revelation

1941
01:51:47,800 --> 01:51:50,500
that, yes, the answer is these
things and it's an eyewitness

1942
01:51:50,500 --> 01:51:53,400
Revelation from the from those
men knew Christ.

1943
01:51:53,700 --> 01:51:57,300
And it's interesting because
there's there is a point in

1944
01:51:57,300 --> 01:52:00,100
Mormon history even where there
was an apostle named the mass

1945
01:52:00,100 --> 01:52:02,700
alignment and I never studied
the super in depth, but

1946
01:52:02,700 --> 01:52:05,800
apparently, he didn't believe in
the atonement of Jesus Christ.

1947
01:52:05,800 --> 01:52:08,000
After a certain point, they
dropped him from the Quorum of

1948
01:52:08,000 --> 01:52:12,100
the twelve and like 1860 and the
II don't I don't know what the

1949
01:52:12,100 --> 01:52:13,900
framework.
He personally had begun to

1950
01:52:13,900 --> 01:52:18,900
develop was regarding how, how
do you obtain godhood?

1951
01:52:18,900 --> 01:52:21,700
Because it seemed like he
believed in exaltation, but he

1952
01:52:21,700 --> 01:52:25,100
didn't believe the atonement was
efficacious in the same way that

1953
01:52:25,100 --> 01:52:27,200
the others did.
When they found that out, it was

1954
01:52:27,200 --> 01:52:29,000
like a huge Scandal and they
dropped him.

1955
01:52:29,600 --> 01:52:33,100
You know, I'm just trying to
wrap my mind around how that

1956
01:52:33,100 --> 01:52:35,900
would work.
But okay, you got interesting

1957
01:52:35,900 --> 01:52:40,400
because well you see afterwards,
he declined Enlighten knowledge.

1958
01:52:40,500 --> 01:52:44,200
H.
And by the time of David Hyrum

1959
01:52:44,200 --> 01:52:47,700
Smith and Joseph youngest son
comes out to visit From Nabu or

1960
01:52:47,700 --> 01:52:50,600
Iowa or wherever their base to
that time, he goes meets up with

1961
01:52:50,600 --> 01:52:53,400
a mass of lime and he's doing
these spiritualists Seance

1962
01:52:53,400 --> 01:52:56,000
meetings.
And he says, I can conjure up

1963
01:52:56,000 --> 01:52:58,600
your dad and Heber C Kimball to
talk to us.

1964
01:52:59,700 --> 01:53:03,500
You know, and they started doing
the same old stuff and so you

1965
01:53:03,500 --> 01:53:07,400
have to help former Apostle, you
know, talking to the son of the

1966
01:53:07,400 --> 01:53:09,800
prophet and then you got David
Hyrum Smith.

1967
01:53:09,800 --> 01:53:13,500
He goes into a mental Asylum
after that, you know, and this

1968
01:53:13,500 --> 01:53:17,800
is it's it's interesting.
So I hang my hat for sure.

1969
01:53:17,800 --> 01:53:21,100
On the atonement and the
resurrection for sure.

1970
01:53:22,300 --> 01:53:24,400
And you know, I don't know.
I need to think about the other

1971
01:53:24,400 --> 01:53:27,800
ones, I guess, but I'm pretty
well certain on what I know the

1972
01:53:27,800 --> 01:53:31,000
spirit has revealed to me.
And I would just encourage any

1973
01:53:31,000 --> 01:53:34,900
listener to find those points of
reference that you're talking

1974
01:53:34,900 --> 01:53:38,100
about and then state to him, you
know?

1975
01:53:38,100 --> 01:53:41,800
Yeah.
And and test test test test and

1976
01:53:41,800 --> 01:53:44,200
find those true points.
One other one I think is just

1977
01:53:44,600 --> 01:53:46,900
Joseph Smith lived and died a
prophet of God.

1978
01:53:47,600 --> 01:53:49,800
There's a lot of people that
want to change who he is and

1979
01:53:49,800 --> 01:53:55,000
defame him and say, you know,
say that what was said about

1980
01:53:55,000 --> 01:53:57,800
him, you know, was added by
Brigham, Young and others but

1981
01:53:58,500 --> 01:54:01,600
Look at the fruits.
Look at the fruits of these

1982
01:54:01,600 --> 01:54:03,700
things and look at who carry
them on.

1983
01:54:04,100 --> 01:54:06,500
You know, I think we were humble
enough.

1984
01:54:06,500 --> 01:54:08,900
We can see that these things
will benefit us and we don't

1985
01:54:08,900 --> 01:54:10,700
have to like things that benefit
us either.

1986
01:54:11,000 --> 01:54:14,800
We don't have to, we're so
caught up in 1s and of maybe

1987
01:54:14,800 --> 01:54:16,000
that's another key on the
server.

1988
01:54:16,000 --> 01:54:18,900
We don't have to like the answer
that we get.

1989
01:54:19,100 --> 01:54:22,000
No, no.
When I go to the gym, I can

1990
01:54:22,000 --> 01:54:26,200
promise you.
I hate every minute of it,

1991
01:54:27,100 --> 01:54:30,700
right?
Even the part of lifting Which

1992
01:54:30,700 --> 01:54:36,800
eye is 10 times better than
cardio, but even in the midst of

1993
01:54:36,800 --> 01:54:39,900
lifting I'm like, this is
stupid.

1994
01:54:39,900 --> 01:54:47,800
What am I doing here?
But I know that the end not

1995
01:54:47,800 --> 01:54:52,700
necessarily of the workout, but
but the, the intent is better,

1996
01:54:52,900 --> 01:54:55,400
right?
Which is healthier body that you

1997
01:54:55,400 --> 01:54:58,100
can do more things with and
you're right.

1998
01:54:58,300 --> 01:55:00,100
We don't have to like the
answer.

1999
01:55:00,600 --> 01:55:03,000
And in that case, I would
recommend putting in the

2000
01:55:03,000 --> 01:55:06,300
discipline and discipleship,
because that's what it's going

2001
01:55:06,300 --> 01:55:10,200
to take for you to get there.
And the other thing I would say

2002
01:55:10,200 --> 01:55:15,800
is, Do the work of discovering
true history?

2003
01:55:16,700 --> 01:55:21,300
I think I think that is a far
bigger crisis right now than any

2004
01:55:21,300 --> 01:55:25,700
of us care to admit, then we're
in a world.

2005
01:55:25,700 --> 01:55:28,100
I don't know if you fall to AI
stuff, for example like it's

2006
01:55:28,100 --> 01:55:31,000
getting scary with like
musicians putting out songs and

2007
01:55:31,000 --> 01:55:33,800
writing songs and other artists
four holes you know, you get an

2008
01:55:33,800 --> 01:55:37,800
AI to sing a song and someone
else's voice, you know, or and

2009
01:55:37,800 --> 01:55:40,700
so you can have these you can
have deep fakes or whatever dude

2010
01:55:40,700 --> 01:55:43,200
like talk Skin, and anyone's
voice.

2011
01:55:43,300 --> 01:55:46,700
And I see this stuff all over
the Internet and trying to get

2012
01:55:46,700 --> 01:55:52,000
endorsements for a project with
the image of Joe Rogan or or or

2013
01:55:52,000 --> 01:55:56,100
sauce on us, you know, renowned
as you know, pretty credible,

2014
01:55:56,200 --> 01:55:57,600
right?
But it's not them.

2015
01:55:58,500 --> 01:56:04,100
Yeah you know and and this is
tournament is going to become so

2016
01:56:04,100 --> 01:56:07,100
so important because I feel like
we are on.

2017
01:56:07,300 --> 01:56:09,600
I feel like we're on the eve of
a lot of things.

2018
01:56:09,800 --> 01:56:12,200
Let me say that.
I think we're about to

2019
01:56:12,200 --> 01:56:15,800
experience something that
Humanity has never faced before

2020
01:56:17,100 --> 01:56:22,200
and to be honest with you,
Anything we really care to face

2021
01:56:24,300 --> 01:56:28,600
but you will not be able to
believe your own eyes and your

2022
01:56:28,600 --> 01:56:34,900
owners and you all coming years.
So you better be able to have

2023
01:56:34,900 --> 01:56:39,900
something else right in
conjunction with your own

2024
01:56:40,800 --> 01:56:44,300
discernment, you had better
lived with the Holy Ghost

2025
01:56:44,600 --> 01:56:48,000
because there will be deceptions
like we've never seen.

2026
01:56:48,400 --> 01:56:55,600
And they are going to be so
convincing, so, realistic.

2027
01:56:56,600 --> 01:56:58,300
I mean, look at what it's doing
now.

2028
01:56:58,400 --> 01:57:00,500
What does it look like in five
years?

2029
01:57:01,100 --> 01:57:04,700
Well, sure.
Yeah, think about this.

2030
01:57:05,300 --> 01:57:06,900
I can't believe I'm doing this
again.

2031
01:57:07,500 --> 01:57:11,700
Um, when I was a kid, we didn't
even have Hannah net, shut up,

2032
01:57:11,800 --> 01:57:16,600
just shut up.
I didn't, I didn't even have the

2033
01:57:16,600 --> 01:57:19,500
internet, right?
That wasn't to thing until I was

2034
01:57:19,500 --> 01:57:23,300
in my early 20s.
Now, 25 years later.

2035
01:57:23,300 --> 01:57:28,700
Later.
We went from sending my first

2036
01:57:28,700 --> 01:57:32,800
email to having more computing
power in my pocket.

2037
01:57:33,100 --> 01:57:35,800
Then those massive computers at
that.

2038
01:57:35,800 --> 01:57:39,500
That landed a man on the moon,
right?

2039
01:57:39,600 --> 01:57:44,600
If we use that same exponential
growth in a couple years, all

2040
01:57:44,600 --> 01:57:48,900
those things I just talked about
where you won't be able to To

2041
01:57:48,900 --> 01:57:53,400
believe what you see in here are
going to be here and we had

2042
01:57:53,400 --> 01:57:59,400
better be in a position to where
we can discern truth and error.

2043
01:58:00,400 --> 01:58:02,300
No.
Dude, it's a moment.

2044
01:58:02,300 --> 01:58:04,900
It's getting crazy levels
because you got those movements

2045
01:58:04,900 --> 01:58:08,600
letter like the posthuman or
transhuman type movements of the

2046
01:58:08,600 --> 01:58:10,900
new literally.
Even in Mormonism, you have that

2047
01:58:10,900 --> 01:58:14,200
tran transhuman Mormonism stuff
where it's like, they want to

2048
01:58:14,208 --> 01:58:17,200
become a hybrid of machine and
Ai.

2049
01:58:17,600 --> 01:58:20,500
And Newman.
And that is going to be

2050
01:58:20,500 --> 01:58:24,500
interesting if that if it gets
to a certain level where they

2051
01:58:24,500 --> 01:58:29,000
begin to really play with that.
That's like end times scenario

2052
01:58:29,000 --> 01:58:30,300
to me, dude.
Like that's where I'm going to

2053
01:58:30,308 --> 01:58:33,500
be like, we're like the Amish
and go hide in the Hills

2054
01:58:33,500 --> 01:58:38,700
somewhere and wait for a solar
flare that fry, everyone and

2055
01:58:39,200 --> 01:58:40,900
that's got a chip in their heads
or something.

2056
01:58:40,900 --> 01:58:42,300
He's not.
Oh no.

2057
01:58:42,800 --> 01:58:46,700
You just this week we were
watching some YouTube videos at

2058
01:58:46,700 --> 01:58:50,400
work of The Boston Dynamics
robots.

2059
01:58:51,300 --> 01:58:54,300
Now, you couple those with like
Ai.

2060
01:58:54,800 --> 01:58:57,500
And I think, within five years,
we could be seeing something

2061
01:58:57,500 --> 01:59:02,100
like, if you remember in the
documentary Terminator, right,

2062
01:59:04,000 --> 01:59:04,800
dude.
All right.

2063
01:59:04,800 --> 01:59:07,400
So there's, there's that, right?
So, did you ever watch the

2064
01:59:07,400 --> 01:59:08,700
movie?
Dude, if they came out, like,

2065
01:59:08,700 --> 01:59:11,200
last year, two years ago.
Now, did you see Doom?

2066
01:59:12,200 --> 01:59:15,400
So, let me tell you my history.
I Tried reading the book and I

2067
01:59:15,400 --> 01:59:18,100
fell asleep.
Then I tried watching the movies

2068
01:59:18,100 --> 01:59:20,100
that Has made in like, the early
80s.

2069
01:59:20,300 --> 01:59:22,600
Yeah, I fell asleep by wish.
Yeah.

2070
01:59:23,000 --> 01:59:27,400
And then I tried watching the
other one and I fell asleep.

2071
01:59:28,000 --> 01:59:31,700
That movie works though.
The whole thing seems to work

2072
01:59:31,700 --> 01:59:37,100
better for me than like ambient.
I mean, that's how I will just

2073
01:59:37,100 --> 01:59:43,300
put me down so, well, no, I'll
nerd out and share be vulnerable

2074
01:59:43,300 --> 01:59:47,000
with you again.
The Dune books are my favorite

2075
01:59:47,000 --> 01:59:48,400
things outside of scripture as
far.

2076
01:59:48,500 --> 01:59:54,100
Books to read like and but it's
the they had, they didn't go

2077
01:59:54,100 --> 01:59:56,300
into this in the movie that was
gonna, you know, I was going to

2078
01:59:56,300 --> 01:59:58,600
talk about the movie with you,
if you'd seen it, but they go

2079
01:59:58,600 --> 02:00:00,400
into this.
They don't go into this, they

2080
02:00:00,400 --> 02:00:03,800
probably will eventually go into
this, but it's a future Society,

2081
02:00:03,800 --> 02:00:09,400
based off of the aftermath of
humanity, basically surrendering

2082
02:00:09,600 --> 02:00:13,200
to Ai, and the what happened, as
a result of it.

2083
02:00:13,400 --> 02:00:16,600
And so, there are no computers
in the Dune universe.

2084
02:00:16,600 --> 02:00:18,400
And yeah, it takes place in a
Star Ferry.

2085
02:00:18,400 --> 02:00:22,800
During Intergalactic, you know,
sci-fi civilization, but there's

2086
02:00:22,800 --> 02:00:28,500
no computers because computers
are outlawed because of a yeah

2087
02:00:28,600 --> 02:00:32,700
events that happened in the
distant past that were, you

2088
02:00:32,700 --> 02:00:36,500
know, Humanity surrendered,
their agency, till machines, to

2089
02:00:36,500 --> 02:00:38,900
do all the work for him and then
it turned into what the

2090
02:00:38,907 --> 02:00:42,900
Terminator situation, basically,
or a Cylon situation with

2091
02:00:42,900 --> 02:00:47,400
Battlestar Galactica, right?
And what is interesting to me,

2092
02:00:47,700 --> 02:00:50,500
you know that.
So do all these calculations

2093
02:00:50,500 --> 02:00:53,800
right to have a Starship travel.
From one star system to another,

2094
02:00:54,400 --> 02:00:57,900
they actually train people to do
the mental calculations and so

2095
02:00:57,907 --> 02:01:00,600
that was kind of the author's.
You know.

2096
02:01:00,608 --> 02:01:03,500
It was his thing with in his
world creating was like, look at

2097
02:01:03,500 --> 02:01:07,500
what, this is what I imagine
human potential without the aid

2098
02:01:07,500 --> 02:01:11,700
of machines could actually be is
that you could actually train

2099
02:01:11,700 --> 02:01:14,800
someone from infancy to be such
a great mathematician.

2100
02:01:15,400 --> 02:01:19,300
Whatever that they could
mechanically pilot.

2101
02:01:20,400 --> 02:01:24,000
A Starship, you know, through
whatever hazards that there's

2102
02:01:24,000 --> 02:01:26,600
possibly out there.
That's instantaneous warp

2103
02:01:26,600 --> 02:01:30,600
travel, you know, but you know,
but it's interesting that he

2104
02:01:30,800 --> 02:01:34,000
rejected did the author of these
books were ejected.

2105
02:01:34,000 --> 02:01:38,600
The machine answer in favor of a
this is the potential that

2106
02:01:38,600 --> 02:01:41,200
Humanity has within ourselves,
you know?

2107
02:01:42,700 --> 02:01:46,100
And almost borders on a
Mankind's Evolution to godhood.

2108
02:01:46,500 --> 02:01:50,600
That's, that's interesting.
I bring that up, I in about two

2109
02:01:50,600 --> 02:01:56,400
weeks, I'll release an episode
with Russ Barlow, where he wrote

2110
02:01:56,400 --> 02:02:01,000
a book about water of all things
and how water testifies of

2111
02:02:01,000 --> 02:02:02,600
Christ.
Interesting.

2112
02:02:03,100 --> 02:02:07,400
And there was some stuff in
there about human potential in

2113
02:02:07,400 --> 02:02:11,500
our conversation.
The deals with that spark of

2114
02:02:11,500 --> 02:02:14,000
divinity, which God has placed
within each of us.

2115
02:02:14,600 --> 02:02:16,900
That, that that's pretty
interesting.

2116
02:02:16,900 --> 02:02:20,200
I think you'd find that
interesting based off of what

2117
02:02:20,200 --> 02:02:24,200
you just said about.
Those horrible books and movies

2118
02:02:24,800 --> 02:02:29,100
that, I mean asleep and I can't
recommend the future movies.

2119
02:02:29,200 --> 02:02:32,300
I don't know what Hollywood will
end up doing, you know, my, they

2120
02:02:32,300 --> 02:02:35,500
might completely wreck it.
But there's a, there's

2121
02:02:35,500 --> 02:02:39,100
interesting dialogue, a few
books down the road where it's

2122
02:02:39,100 --> 02:02:42,600
literally questioning of it
questions.

2123
02:02:42,600 --> 02:02:47,600
The Omni God complex of like
Christianity of like what would

2124
02:02:47,600 --> 02:02:52,900
God even looks like he was
omniscient and Omnipresence and,

2125
02:02:53,400 --> 02:02:56,200
you know, can such a being
exists in happiness.

2126
02:02:56,200 --> 02:02:59,100
Even and it almost like it's
almost Mormon a thing, you know,

2127
02:02:59,100 --> 02:03:03,100
in a way where it's like, you
couldn't be happy if you weren't

2128
02:03:03,100 --> 02:03:07,100
progressing and knowledge or you
know what I mean, right?

2129
02:03:07,400 --> 02:03:10,800
No because I think the person,
oh, sorry you go.

2130
02:03:10,900 --> 02:03:14,000
No, go ahead.
I was a character in the book,

2131
02:03:14,000 --> 02:03:17,500
attains something similar to
what the Christian world would

2132
02:03:17,500 --> 02:03:21,300
view as omniscience throughout
through evolution.

2133
02:03:21,500 --> 02:03:25,600
Really breeding program, you
know and I forced Evolution

2134
02:03:25,600 --> 02:03:28,200
through genetic not
manipulation.

2135
02:03:28,200 --> 02:03:32,600
Not I'm not on a knot on a
scientific like in a lab level

2136
02:03:32,600 --> 02:03:36,600
the through, picking Partners
over 8 and thousand year

2137
02:03:37,800 --> 02:03:41,800
projected pedigree chart and you
know it culminated insult.

2138
02:03:41,800 --> 02:03:45,300
You know a person that was able
to with the right triggers

2139
02:03:45,300 --> 02:03:49,100
attain, what was looked up as a
missions, but it gets very

2140
02:03:49,100 --> 02:03:51,200
philosophical and you might find
boring.

2141
02:03:51,400 --> 02:03:54,700
I thought I was a fascinating
commentary on what people

2142
02:03:54,700 --> 02:03:58,900
consider to be human versus
Divine or and where the where

2143
02:03:58,900 --> 02:04:01,400
the where it meets which is kind
of what we're about and

2144
02:04:01,400 --> 02:04:05,000
Mormonism.
Dude, I think I think human

2145
02:04:05,000 --> 02:04:07,900
being you were going to say I
think as human beings.

2146
02:04:07,900 --> 02:04:13,600
Part of that Divine spark is we
seem to be wired for struggle,

2147
02:04:14,700 --> 02:04:17,300
right?
I think a lot of the social ills

2148
02:04:17,300 --> 02:04:21,000
that we face right now are
because things are just too

2149
02:04:21,000 --> 02:04:28,200
easy. if you look, if look At
the same time, everything's

2150
02:04:28,200 --> 02:04:32,200
going to hell in a handbasket
socially, right?

2151
02:04:32,800 --> 02:04:36,400
Whether that's the trans
movement, there's a strike from

2152
02:04:36,400 --> 02:04:41,700
YouTube, whether that is,
whether that, that is, you know,

2153
02:04:41,700 --> 02:04:45,800
how victimhood becomes has
become the new social currency

2154
02:04:46,200 --> 02:04:47,800
of choice.
Well sure.

2155
02:04:48,300 --> 02:04:51,900
I think that all has to do with
this fact of we don't struggle

2156
02:04:51,900 --> 02:04:56,400
anymore, right?
We go to these really soft jobs.

2157
02:04:56,700 --> 02:05:00,800
Where we push the mouse around a
little bit, and we, you know,

2158
02:05:00,800 --> 02:05:06,200
send some emails.
We don't do anything hard, but

2159
02:05:06,200 --> 02:05:09,700
we don't and, and it's in that
struggle.

2160
02:05:09,700 --> 02:05:14,100
Look, look, I just talked about
hating the gym, I hate doing my

2161
02:05:14,100 --> 02:05:17,500
workout.
But I love coming out of the

2162
02:05:17,500 --> 02:05:22,600
gym, it's absolutely hardest
best part of my day because when

2163
02:05:22,600 --> 02:05:28,100
I come out of there, I know I
have done probably the hardest

2164
02:05:28,100 --> 02:05:32,200
thing, I'll do all day long.
Yeah, right.

2165
02:05:32,400 --> 02:05:39,200
And I conquered my, my inner
wuss I have said, you know, no,

2166
02:05:39,200 --> 02:05:41,300
we're going to go do this
because it's good for me.

2167
02:05:43,400 --> 02:05:45,800
And and I think we're all while
wired.

2168
02:05:46,000 --> 02:05:50,400
That struggle a little bit and
if we aren't struggling somehow,

2169
02:05:51,000 --> 02:05:55,000
well, then we'll go find new
ways to fill that void with

2170
02:05:55,000 --> 02:05:58,200
victimhood with identity
politics.

2171
02:05:58,900 --> 02:06:02,100
Whatever it is.
We'll find a way to struggle.

2172
02:06:03,300 --> 02:06:04,600
Have you ever watched The
Matrix?

2173
02:06:05,400 --> 02:06:08,300
Oh yeah, yeah, that's a good.
Those are good movies.

2174
02:06:09,000 --> 02:06:11,100
So now we're all now, we're
talking the same language case,

2175
02:06:11,200 --> 02:06:16,600
where agent Smith tells Neo but
it was a Morpheus where They

2176
02:06:16,600 --> 02:06:19,500
created a first Matrix That was
supposed to be like.

2177
02:06:20,300 --> 02:06:22,500
That was like, that was agent
Smith.

2178
02:06:22,500 --> 02:06:24,300
Yeah.
When yep.

2179
02:06:25,100 --> 02:06:27,700
Be a paradise and he was so
disgusted.

2180
02:06:28,000 --> 02:06:31,000
He's I can you guys couldn't
live in the paradise so he gave

2181
02:06:31,000 --> 02:06:33,100
you, you just died.
They died in the television

2182
02:06:33,100 --> 02:06:36,300
bodies because the humans the
humans didn't have adversity.

2183
02:06:37,400 --> 02:06:39,300
And they would just die in these
tanks.

2184
02:06:39,400 --> 02:06:42,300
And so the machines that were
creating the Matrix are like oh

2185
02:06:42,300 --> 02:06:45,300
there goes our batteries and so
they created the secondary

2186
02:06:45,300 --> 02:06:50,600
Matrix that would, you know,
create the illusion of adversity

2187
02:06:50,600 --> 02:06:52,900
so that they could that humans
is wouldn't kill themselves and

2188
02:06:52,900 --> 02:06:55,000
give up the will to live.
So it's interesting that you

2189
02:06:55,008 --> 02:07:01,200
bring up how adversity is is so
natural to our development, but

2190
02:07:01,200 --> 02:07:05,200
the devil's Know appropriating
It, Like A Parasite and fun,

2191
02:07:05,200 --> 02:07:08,900
forcing it into it.
Avenues that are not productive

2192
02:07:08,900 --> 02:07:14,200
for us, but also on the Matrix,
I'm assuming you've watched the

2193
02:07:14,208 --> 02:07:16,500
whole trilogy, even though the
critics hate the other two

2194
02:07:16,500 --> 02:07:20,000
movies, the symbolisms for Zion.
Yeah.

2195
02:07:20,600 --> 02:07:24,500
Definition of Zion and the cycle
of like one Eternal round and

2196
02:07:24,500 --> 02:07:28,300
all of that, that's in that and
where the architect tells Neo,

2197
02:07:28,400 --> 02:07:32,300
oh, you're like what the seven
savior or and this is like the

2198
02:07:32,300 --> 02:07:35,900
seventh is Ian or whatever and
we're just we rebuild it and

2199
02:07:35,900 --> 02:07:39,600
we're waiting for it to break.
The cycle and the pain a point

2200
02:07:39,600 --> 02:07:42,100
where there is a Liberation you
know?

2201
02:07:43,100 --> 02:07:46,200
Yes yeah but it's so it's so
interesting.

2202
02:07:46,500 --> 02:07:51,100
It really you have ties in with
worlds without number and or you

2203
02:07:51,100 --> 02:07:54,900
know and how God is waiting for
us to rise up and become Zion?

2204
02:07:55,400 --> 02:07:58,700
You know, it just wait.
What happens if we don't gets

2205
02:07:58,700 --> 02:08:01,400
destroyed New Earth?
Yep.

2206
02:08:01,700 --> 02:08:04,100
See if they'll do it.
Yep.

2207
02:08:04,500 --> 02:08:06,200
Yeah.
No those moving that.

2208
02:08:06,200 --> 02:08:10,200
And that is Malachi says, the
Earth will be utterly wasted at

2209
02:08:10,200 --> 02:08:11,900
the Lord's coming.
What is what does that mean?

2210
02:08:11,900 --> 02:08:15,100
What is wasted mean?
It means that everything else

2211
02:08:15,100 --> 02:08:18,300
done up till now will be for
naught if we don't get our bleep

2212
02:08:18,300 --> 02:08:21,200
together and a Genesis 10.
Is Joseph Smith translation.

2213
02:08:21,200 --> 02:08:25,100
So you when God says to Noah,
the Covenant that I made with I

2214
02:08:25,100 --> 02:08:29,000
father Enoch that when thy
posterity shall keep all my

2215
02:08:29,000 --> 02:08:33,600
Commandments, then shall heaven
or Zion from above?

2216
02:08:33,600 --> 02:08:36,600
Look on Zion below.
Yep.

2217
02:08:36,800 --> 02:08:40,500
Yep.
No I agree with you 100% dude I

2218
02:08:40,500 --> 02:08:44,800
think I think everybody got
something out of this episode.

2219
02:08:45,300 --> 02:08:48,300
They got you making fun of my
age.

2220
02:08:48,700 --> 02:08:54,400
Yeah they got a little bit on
movie critiques.

2221
02:08:54,800 --> 02:08:57,200
Yeah.
And we covered discernment and

2222
02:08:57,200 --> 02:08:59,500
I'm pretty sure I'll get a ton
of hate mail from the doctrine

2223
02:08:59,500 --> 02:09:02,300
of Christ folks.
So I feel like I'm fulfilled.

2224
02:09:02,500 --> 02:09:05,200
I feel like we can we can
shoulder that burden together.

2225
02:09:05,300 --> 02:09:07,700
I'm happy to be on their, their
list, their Hit List.

2226
02:09:08,700 --> 02:09:11,200
Yeah, yeah.
I know, I have no doubt, I'm

2227
02:09:11,200 --> 02:09:15,600
slowly ascending the the ladder
of their, their most infamous at

2228
02:09:15,600 --> 02:09:17,500
this point.
So.

2229
02:09:17,800 --> 02:09:20,100
But anyway, dude, this was
awesome.

2230
02:09:20,100 --> 02:09:22,300
Let's do it again.
You got it.

2231
02:09:22,700 --> 02:09:47,000
Alright, bye everybody.
You're listening to the Mormon

2232
02:09:47,000 --> 02:09:48,500
Renegade podcast.