Episode #71: What Is The Shelf Life Of Prophetic Counsel, Allen D. Haynie's Talk At LDS General Conference & What It Means For The LDS Church W/Justin Francom

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Every so often the LDS church in
Mormonism have watershed

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moments.
These moments serve as

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inflection point signaling.
The direction.

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The LDS church will head and the
speed at which they will intend

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to make changes.
To serve this new course.

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I believe that one such
inflection point just happened

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at the last LDS General
Conference.

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When elder Allen D Haney gave a
talk in which he stated that

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prophetic counsel has an
expiration date.

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I mean, that's just perfect.
So now you no longer have to

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read those Dusty old books known
as the scriptures or go

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searching for things that Joseph
and Brigham or other early

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church leader said, isn't that
great?

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I don't think so.
Not so much today.

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Justin Frank I'm joins me again
on the podcast as we discuss.

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What this change means for the
LDS church in Mormonism.

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Stick around is Justin and I
connect the dock and give you

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commentary, you'll get nowhere
else on where the LDS church is

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heading.
That's next on this episode of

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You're listening to the Mormon
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Justin, how you doing?
I'm doing great.

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That's awesome.
Really good.

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So you reached out to me about a
week ago and this was a topic I

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was trying to find someone to
talk on when you reached out.

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And I'm continually blessed with
these experiences where, well,

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just the other day.
I haven't released the episode

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yet.
It's probably Q or three weeks

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out yet, but I had on been
Winfield again.

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And we talked about re-baptism
and what was interesting is that

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I was like, okay, this is
something I want to talk about,

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who, you know, who do, I know
that would do a good job and I

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thought several people, and just
the thought came into my head,

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just just that stroke of
inspiration that we all get from

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time to time, check with
Benjamin Winfield and so I did.

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And he's like, you know, it's
funny.

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I was just studying up on this,
I felt the Lord tug on me to

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look at this.
So the very same thing happened

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here, and I want to emphasize
that as I as we talk about this,

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we're going to do it from a
place of love, but we're also

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going to raise kind of a warning
voice.

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I feel like the church kind of
crossed the Rubicon, so to

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speak, when I say the church, I
mean the LDS church, they kind

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of crossed the Rubicon.
They, let no doubt be had at

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this point that things are
changing now.

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And that was just this last
General Conference and that was

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by Elder Alan d Haney.
So Justin, I'm going to turn it

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over to you to kind of explain
what it is that he said in his

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talk.
Yeah, so and I want to be clear

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here, too.
So, this is a topic I did not

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want to address.
I really did not want.

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When I, when I heard this talk
during conference, I mean I

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listened to conference still.
I still have a lot, a lot of

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respect for the LDS church and I
consider I consider the

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membership in the church as
brothers and sisters.

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And we're all part of this
restoration together.

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And, and I Listen to General
Conference and sometimes I find

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really inspiring talks to I
learned from I still learn from

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it and I find it a productive
thing to do.

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But I heard this talk and it was
one of the most upsetting

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experiences I've ever had
listening to conference and I

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thought that I needed to talk.
I felt like even if the time I

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need to say something about it,
I need to say something about

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this and I kept trying to put it
off and the spirit just kept

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coming back at me saying and
showing me and show me things,

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like, you need to talk about
this.

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You need to talk about that.
You have buy them like I don't,

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I don't know if David would want
to talk about this because this

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is a Hot Topic and I have no,
this is I have never ever

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publicly spoken ill of anything.
Being taught by the church and

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that is not my intent.
Here is not a, this isn't a

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bash, the church kind of thing
or an anti-mormon type of a

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rant.
There are some real truths here

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that I think are vital
absolutely vital to our temporal

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and spiritual salvation in this
in these latter days and these

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truths need to be spoken.
So I don't look at this so much

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as I'm trying to I've nothing
against Elder Haney, I feel no -

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ill will I, you know I have no
ill will towards him or the

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leadership in the church that
put this out.

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But what's said here is there's
some serious serious errors and

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I feel like they need to be
addressed because Because we are

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in the last times I mean Elder
Haney was right about that in

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this talk that we are in the
last times and the trials that

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we face in life are getting
getting more and more difficult.

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The decisions that we have to
make are getting more and more

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important and the example that
we're setting for our children,

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his probably never been more
vital at least since since the

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restoration and since
registration began.

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And so I want to approach this
as humbly as I can.

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But there are some things here
that I think really just need to

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be addressed.
Is that make sense?

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Absolutely, it does not
appreciate that.

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So what was it that he said, in
particular, that, that really

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struck you.
I think everybody knows by now,

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but let's go over it just to
make sure, we're sure.

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Yeah, yep, let's go over it.
Yeah.

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So I think there's always been a
certain amount of what you might

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call leader Worship in the
church.

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And somebody who has, you know,
gone into fundamentalism at this

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point, obviously that's
something I've always been aware

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of.
And that the church is always,

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though, there's always been an
out.

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There's always been a escape a
and that escape is always been

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when a prophet is speaking as a
prophet, that's when it's

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inspired and that profits are
just men and they're not, they

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don't only that this was
Doctrine.

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Not, you know, this was Doctrine
three months ago that went

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across.
It's not speaking as a Vut.

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It's not inspired and we
shouldn't expect it to be.

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And at the very beginning of
this talk, one of the very first

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things he says here, is that
knowing by Revelation that there

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is a living Prophet on Earth
changes, everything it causes

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one to be uninterested in the
debate about when is a prophet

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speaking as a prophet or whether
one is ever justified in

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selective rejection of prophetic
counsel.

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That is huge.
That is a, that is an entirely

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different stance.
He's saying, it's this, it's

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not, that's unimportant, it
doesn't matter if the prophets

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inspired or not, he is the
Prophet by virtue of his title.

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We should accept everything that
he has to say.

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And I think that.
There is a context here as well

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in this talk.
And I kind of want to actually

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kind of approach that to maybe
the beginning.

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Here's here's what I've seen.
So, during covid, the church

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came out and recommended the
membership to the jab.

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And I know personally know a lot
of members faithful members who

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have testimonies of the
correctness of their of the

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church and And the inspiration
of the leadership who chose not

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to get that vaccine a lot.
I know a lot who didn't and they

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understood this as a situation
where well, you know, the

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prophet didn't say it in general
conference that they need to

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get.
He didn't say thus, saith the

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Lord in general conference that
they need to get vaccinated with

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the covid job.
And so they.

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So they chose to say, well I
believe they pray, and they

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didn't just choose to the
research.

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They studied it out.
And they prayed about it, they

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sincerely prayed about it.
And like I said most, I know

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most of actually most of the
active members in the LDS church

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that I know chose not to get
that job.

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They struggled with it.
It wasn't just a flippant

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decision to make.
They really took it seriously

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and they decided that that was
not prophetic counsel in that

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instance.
And so this very beginning right

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here.
What he's saying it doesn't

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uninterested in this debate on
whether it's inspired or not.

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This is this is, this is
targeting a large portion of the

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membership of the church.
This, this, this talk it's being

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addressed to these people
specifically, and it's kind of

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doubling down on that.
We should that?

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Well, blind obedience right.
What is blind, obedience?

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I would say it's probably a
obedience without you receiving

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a testimony for yourself.
Of the, of the maps.

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Whatever.
That principle is.

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Yeah.
Absolutely.

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And I have never achieved, never
felt that the church.

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Even even in, you know, before
this when I felt, I couldn't

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remain active and I've never
felt that they were officially

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truly advocating for blind
obedience, because there were

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always caveat.
So, there was always, well,

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here's a talk about how
important it is to follow the

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prophet that they also in that
same talk talk about getting

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your own Revelation, and Getting
your own inspiration.

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And so that's not happening here
and that's why it's so

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disturbing.
And because it was so applicable

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to so many people.
So, so he goes on and he says,

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president Russell.
I'm Nelson Has testified that

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God's long established pattern
of teaching his children through

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prophets.
As sure as us, that he will

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bless each prophet and that he
will bless those who he'd

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prophetic counsel.
So, the key is to follow the

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living Prophet, brothers and
sisters.

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I'm like vintage comic books in
classic cars.

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Prophetic teachings, do not
become more valuable with age.

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That is why we should not seek
to use the words of past

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prophets to dismiss the
teachings of the living

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prophets. so does true prophetic
counsel and teaching ever really

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contradict I would say no and
you think of I would say no.

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And the reason I would say no is
because Joseph was very clear.

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If anyone preaches to you a
gospel different than the one

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I'm preaching to you.
You can set that person aside as

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an apostle as an impostor.
So I think you have some very

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clear guidelines from from
Joseph himself and and I am a

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guy who believes that the waters
are pure at their source.

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And so I would say in this
instance, Instant.

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No, I think we can get further
Revelation on things.

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I think we can get further
understanding, but I don't think

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it should ever be at the expense
of being.

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Contrary to the previous profit.
Does that make sense?

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Yeah.
Well, in my study of the

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scriptures, I can't think of
any, any profits that really

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contradict each other.
What if you read the Old

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Testament, or in the New
Testament, you don't really see.

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The closest I found is Christ
himself.

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Elf.
That's the closest I could find

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to a so, to speak profit
contradicting, an older profit.

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But even in that context Christ
said, think not that I am come

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to destroy the law or the
prophets.

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I am not come to destroy, but to
fulfill right, right?

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The law was still being
observed.

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It was just through Christ.
It was being fulfilled.

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Yeah, and, you know, in the
restoration all of the stuff

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00:14:08,500 --> 00:14:11,900
that Joseph Smith restored to
the restoration, none of That

227
00:14:12,600 --> 00:14:16,800
contradicts the prophets of old.
He adds to it, he gives greater

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00:14:16,800 --> 00:14:20,600
context greater meaning greater
depth but he doesn't actually

229
00:14:20,600 --> 00:14:22,300
contact.
He doesn't contradict anything.

230
00:14:22,300 --> 00:14:24,900
There is no contradiction,
right?

231
00:14:26,400 --> 00:14:28,900
And you know I think that it's
also important and the

232
00:14:28,900 --> 00:14:32,000
difference between you know you
have policies and you've got

233
00:14:32,000 --> 00:14:35,300
doctrines right?
And I'm fine with policies,

234
00:14:35,300 --> 00:14:37,200
changing.
Those kinds of things do change

235
00:14:37,200 --> 00:14:40,100
because situations and
environments change.

236
00:14:40,700 --> 00:14:43,800
But truth truth shouldn't be
able to change.

237
00:14:43,800 --> 00:14:47,100
Right?
I mean is it not true that if

238
00:14:47,100 --> 00:14:49,700
God can change, if truth can
change?

239
00:14:49,700 --> 00:14:53,200
Then then he is no longer God,
right?

240
00:14:53,900 --> 00:14:57,100
But I mean I guess Joseph Smith
taught that and so Being an

241
00:14:57,100 --> 00:14:59,300
older profit that can be
contradicted.

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00:15:00,000 --> 00:15:04,800
So, let me push back for just a
second because there are, I

243
00:15:04,800 --> 00:15:08,100
believe it's in D and see where
the Lord says.

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00:15:08,100 --> 00:15:10,800
I giveth and taketh away as seen
with me good.

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00:15:12,000 --> 00:15:15,300
Hmm, how would you, how would
you respond to that then?

246
00:15:16,400 --> 00:15:19,500
Well, that's a great example.
And I think an example of this

247
00:15:19,500 --> 00:15:24,300
happening in scriptures is in
Jacob, when Jacob basically

248
00:15:24,300 --> 00:15:27,800
revokes the Age of practicing
plural.

249
00:15:27,800 --> 00:15:30,600
Marriage to the Nephites, he
takes it away.

250
00:15:30,700 --> 00:15:33,900
He says, you've abused this.
You've done wrong with this.

251
00:15:34,500 --> 00:15:40,400
And this privilege is being
removed and that's a contextual

252
00:15:40,400 --> 00:15:41,200
thing.
But what?

253
00:15:41,200 --> 00:15:45,700
But you'll notice though, what
he does not say is that this is

254
00:15:45,700 --> 00:15:49,700
a false principle.
In fact, he doubles down.

255
00:15:49,700 --> 00:15:54,400
He says that when God That if
God Is Ours to raise up a

256
00:15:54,400 --> 00:15:57,000
righteous Branch, he will
command his people to live this

257
00:15:57,000 --> 00:16:01,700
law.
That's speaking.

258
00:16:01,700 --> 00:16:04,700
Highly highly favorably of the
principal.

259
00:16:06,900 --> 00:16:09,800
Is just saying in this context,
for you, for you, where you're

260
00:16:09,800 --> 00:16:12,800
at right now, this is being
removed from you, but he doesn't

261
00:16:12,800 --> 00:16:16,600
contradict the doctrine.
He doesn't contradict, doesn't

262
00:16:16,600 --> 00:16:19,300
contradict the law.
He just says, As a matter of

263
00:16:19,300 --> 00:16:22,400
policy for where you're at, this
is the situation.

264
00:16:22,500 --> 00:16:27,700
And so I think that can be I
don't think there's necessarily

265
00:16:27,700 --> 00:16:29,100
a problem with that.
I don't think that's a

266
00:16:29,100 --> 00:16:34,400
contradiction, but didn't.
So, if you change that into a

267
00:16:34,400 --> 00:16:38,200
policy where you don't practice
that is the holiest Church

268
00:16:38,200 --> 00:16:42,500
didn't in the right when they
say, okay, we're no longer

269
00:16:42,500 --> 00:16:46,700
practicing plural marriage.
I actually think it's very

270
00:16:46,700 --> 00:16:54,100
possible that it is.
I mean, There's are you familiar

271
00:16:54,100 --> 00:16:56,200
with the Walker Lake incident?
No.

272
00:16:58,000 --> 00:17:02,500
So right around the same time
when the LDS church issued a

273
00:17:02,500 --> 00:17:07,099
Manifesto bunch of Indians
traveled to Walker Lake.

274
00:17:07,099 --> 00:17:10,400
Nevada.
And I know a little bit about

275
00:17:10,400 --> 00:17:16,700
this as a as a descendant of the
Lakota people and Sitting Bull

276
00:17:17,300 --> 00:17:23,099
had heard about this event this
Gathering and he sent two of two

277
00:17:23,099 --> 00:17:26,500
of his Brave to go down there
and find out what's going on and

278
00:17:26,500 --> 00:17:29,300
report back to him.
And this is actually, this is

279
00:17:29,300 --> 00:17:36,100
the origin of the ghost dance.
So they went down there and they

280
00:17:36,100 --> 00:17:39,100
had a Miraculous Journey because
they didn't speak English and

281
00:17:39,100 --> 00:17:43,600
they were on this train and they
didn't know where to get off to

282
00:17:43,600 --> 00:17:49,600
get to Walker Lake.
And they claimed that two white

283
00:17:49,600 --> 00:17:54,500
men, white men dressed
completely as if they were

284
00:17:54,500 --> 00:17:57,100
Indians came and approached them
on the train and suddenly said,

285
00:17:57,100 --> 00:17:59,200
this is your stop.
Top, get off here and so, they

286
00:17:59,200 --> 00:18:03,600
did and they travel down to
Walker Lake.

287
00:18:03,600 --> 00:18:07,500
And there was a gathering of
with people from all these

288
00:18:07,500 --> 00:18:09,900
different tribes, and North
America.

289
00:18:10,500 --> 00:18:14,400
And what they claimed is that
Christ appeared to them and said

290
00:18:14,400 --> 00:18:20,000
that the Gentiles have rejected
me really.

291
00:18:20,900 --> 00:18:26,700
And that from here, on that,
that these things were going to

292
00:18:26,700 --> 00:18:29,100
be Given to them, and they were
taught.

293
00:18:29,100 --> 00:18:30,700
They were given the white
garments.

294
00:18:32,000 --> 00:18:35,800
And they were told to wear them
and to perform these certain

295
00:18:35,800 --> 00:18:38,900
dances and they were told that
these garments would be to

296
00:18:38,900 --> 00:18:42,500
astute agree that they'd be
protection to those who protect

297
00:18:42,500 --> 00:18:44,200
them.
They had this belief that they

298
00:18:44,200 --> 00:18:49,000
did that it would make them
bulletproof even and so sounds

299
00:18:49,000 --> 00:18:49,700
off.
We don't know.

300
00:18:50,600 --> 00:18:53,200
Yeah, it sounds really familiar
and that we don't have all the

301
00:18:53,200 --> 00:18:55,200
details.
Unfortunately, because they went

302
00:18:55,200 --> 00:18:57,900
back and they reported to
Sitting Bull and Sitting Bull

303
00:18:57,900 --> 00:18:59,600
said, this is good.
This is true.

304
00:18:59,600 --> 00:19:02,000
This is right.
And so and at this point Point.

305
00:19:02,000 --> 00:19:05,300
They're all out there on the
Pine Ridge reservation, really?

306
00:19:05,300 --> 00:19:08,400
And the reservation is, you
know, really got their thumb on

307
00:19:08,400 --> 00:19:15,400
them and it and Sitting Bull in
dorste and gave his approval for

308
00:19:15,400 --> 00:19:18,400
this Ghost Dance.
And so the natives, they started

309
00:19:18,400 --> 00:19:22,200
making these white garments and
they wear them and they would do

310
00:19:22,200 --> 00:19:24,300
this dance and they were told
that they would do this dance

311
00:19:24,300 --> 00:19:28,100
and that eventually that that
Christ was going to give this

312
00:19:28,100 --> 00:19:31,300
land back to them that they
would be freed from this prison

313
00:19:31,300 --> 00:19:32,400
of in there.
Reservation.

314
00:19:32,400 --> 00:19:36,100
And that they would end up re
inheriting this land.

315
00:19:37,400 --> 00:19:42,900
If they do this dance and so
they did and the agent on the

316
00:19:42,908 --> 00:19:47,100
reservation decided that this
is, this is an uprising.

317
00:19:47,400 --> 00:19:51,500
This is an act of rebellion.
Even though they were not armed,

318
00:19:51,900 --> 00:19:54,000
there is nothing.
There is no violent rhetoric.

319
00:19:54,000 --> 00:19:55,900
They were, they weren't saying
that they were going to

320
00:19:55,900 --> 00:20:00,700
violently retake their freedom.
They were just saying that God

321
00:20:00,700 --> 00:20:03,400
was going to give this land back
to them.

322
00:20:04,500 --> 00:20:08,700
And so, did their Ghost, Dance
was forbidden by the agents and

323
00:20:09,400 --> 00:20:11,800
so they went off into the
Wilderness to do their ghosts

324
00:20:11,800 --> 00:20:16,500
and dance and my
great-grandmother was on the

325
00:20:16,500 --> 00:20:21,000
reservation at this time.
She was a little girl and she

326
00:20:21,000 --> 00:20:23,700
remember, she wasn't part of the
ghost stance herself.

327
00:20:23,700 --> 00:20:27,900
She was in a school and she
remembers when the agent called

328
00:20:27,900 --> 00:20:31,600
the Army and the Army came.
Mmmmm and they went out to find

329
00:20:31,600 --> 00:20:36,200
them out in the wilderness and
that was the, that was the

330
00:20:36,200 --> 00:20:38,600
massacre.
That was the Wounded Knee

331
00:20:38,600 --> 00:20:40,900
Massacre.
They killed them, they killed

332
00:20:40,900 --> 00:20:47,700
all of them.
And after that, it kind of

333
00:20:47,708 --> 00:20:51,800
vanished, at least among the
Lakota people and we don't have,

334
00:20:51,800 --> 00:20:54,400
like I said, we don't have a lot
of information because most of

335
00:20:54,400 --> 00:20:58,100
this was translated later, by
people Sitting Bull, didn't

336
00:20:58,100 --> 00:21:00,100
live, a whole bunch of didn't
live, much longer after that

337
00:21:00,100 --> 00:21:05,300
himself and and quickly.
The leadership of the, the

338
00:21:05,300 --> 00:21:08,100
Native American leadership
became kind of working hand in

339
00:21:08,100 --> 00:21:10,900
hand, with, with the agents in
the reservation.

340
00:21:12,300 --> 00:21:15,800
So, yeah.
There's a lot in there, we don't

341
00:21:15,800 --> 00:21:18,600
know.
But anyway, the bit of a tangent

342
00:21:18,600 --> 00:21:21,900
where were we?
This was the topic of ask you

343
00:21:21,908 --> 00:21:24,500
the question that maybe the
oldest church was, right?

344
00:21:24,500 --> 00:21:27,500
Because if yeah rescinded plural
marriage.

345
00:21:28,600 --> 00:21:32,600
Well, I think that if they if
they rejected it, God will

346
00:21:32,600 --> 00:21:36,700
respect that.
If you're going to choose, not

347
00:21:36,700 --> 00:21:40,700
to live God's law.
I think at a certain point and

348
00:21:40,700 --> 00:21:43,800
gods going to respect that you
might lose things, things might

349
00:21:43,800 --> 00:21:50,000
be taken away and it could
become wrong for some people.

350
00:21:50,300 --> 00:21:55,000
Now those who I guess broke off
with some metals and they were

351
00:21:55,000 --> 00:21:57,700
following their own, they were
following their own testimony.

352
00:21:58,100 --> 00:22:00,300
There are the inspiration that
they had received about those

353
00:22:00,300 --> 00:22:02,100
things and I think that's
totally valid.

354
00:22:02,700 --> 00:22:07,200
I mean, even in Israel ancient
Israel, there were I mean Elijah

355
00:22:07,200 --> 00:22:11,800
had the Melchizedek priesthood.
Clearly he had sealing power

356
00:22:11,800 --> 00:22:15,800
even well, wait a minute but but
Moses forbid them of that.

357
00:22:15,800 --> 00:22:17,100
He gave them the lower
priesthood.

358
00:22:17,600 --> 00:22:20,900
Well yeah, as a people as a
whole yes, it was taken from

359
00:22:20,900 --> 00:22:23,300
them, their opportunity to
receive those things were taken

360
00:22:23,300 --> 00:22:26,700
from them but that doesn't mean
that God didn't work with people

361
00:22:26,700 --> 00:22:31,800
individually and Inspire them.
Yeah, I guess the thing I would

362
00:22:31,800 --> 00:22:38,700
say is that in Jacob, what you
have is a very pronounced, the

363
00:22:38,700 --> 00:22:40,900
theater, Or kind of Revelation,
right?

364
00:22:40,900 --> 00:22:46,500
I mean he's yes, absolutely
coming coming hard and here,

365
00:22:46,500 --> 00:22:49,500
asin's it for a time and we
don't know if it was just for

366
00:22:49,500 --> 00:22:52,200
sending amongst the general
population or if it was

367
00:22:52,200 --> 00:22:54,200
everybody.
Yeah.

368
00:22:56,500 --> 00:23:00,000
The difference is this time
around, I would say, is that

369
00:23:00,900 --> 00:23:05,100
there was never a thus saith the
Lord Revelation in regards to

370
00:23:05,100 --> 00:23:07,900
ceasing plural marriage in our
day, right?

371
00:23:07,900 --> 00:23:11,700
DNC, 132 Yeah.
Of course, I don't care what

372
00:23:11,700 --> 00:23:16,800
anyone says I will never any of
them manifest those, whether

373
00:23:16,800 --> 00:23:21,700
it's, you know, was 1898 and
then 1904 or something like

374
00:23:21,700 --> 00:23:24,300
that.
Neither one of them start with

375
00:23:24,300 --> 00:23:27,600
the severely, you know, barely
thus saith the Lord, right?

376
00:23:27,600 --> 00:23:31,400
It's not like to whom this is
concerned concerned.

377
00:23:32,800 --> 00:23:36,000
So, yeah, I guess that's how I
would.

378
00:23:36,000 --> 00:23:38,900
I would frame that argument
there, but I see now.

379
00:23:39,300 --> 00:23:42,400
And I agree and I agree with
that, I do I do.

380
00:23:42,400 --> 00:23:47,000
But all I'm saying, is I'm open
to the idea though that the, the

381
00:23:47,000 --> 00:23:50,900
lack of this ordinate of these
ordinances and these blessings

382
00:23:50,900 --> 00:23:57,300
in the LDS church, I think that
there is a possibility that it

383
00:23:57,300 --> 00:23:59,600
really is something that God has
said.

384
00:23:59,600 --> 00:24:01,600
Alright?
Well if you're not willing to if

385
00:24:01,600 --> 00:24:04,400
you're not willing to live my
law then you will not have my

386
00:24:04,400 --> 00:24:07,800
law as a people.
Well and and they were clearly

387
00:24:07,800 --> 00:24:09,800
some people that were willing To
keep it though.

388
00:24:09,800 --> 00:24:12,200
And I think it was intended to
intentionally preserved among

389
00:24:12,200 --> 00:24:13,200
them.
Yeah.

390
00:24:13,800 --> 00:24:19,700
And I will say this, I think I
think For Better or Worse, you

391
00:24:19,700 --> 00:24:24,000
know, we did go against Taylor's
Revelation, right?

392
00:24:24,000 --> 00:24:25,700
The 1886 room.
Yes.

393
00:24:26,300 --> 00:24:30,600
Where Taylor, basically,
receives a thus saith the Lord

394
00:24:30,800 --> 00:24:35,500
Revelation that used to be in
the Doctrine and Covenants,

395
00:24:35,900 --> 00:24:40,100
which said hold true to these
principles and I will fight your

396
00:24:40,100 --> 00:24:44,300
battles and instead caves,
right?

397
00:24:44,300 --> 00:24:48,900
And so yeah, I think in that way
you can maybe see a little bit

398
00:24:48,900 --> 00:24:51,600
of Disobedience on the part of
the LDS church there.

399
00:24:52,500 --> 00:24:57,000
Well, yeah, they made and you
look at the history when they,

400
00:24:57,100 --> 00:25:01,200
the manifesto was never intended
to be in effect upon the

401
00:25:01,200 --> 00:25:04,400
membership.
It was a trick to confuse the

402
00:25:04,400 --> 00:25:06,500
the government.
They're trying to fool the

403
00:25:06,500 --> 00:25:09,000
devil, they had no intention of
abolishing it.

404
00:25:09,100 --> 00:25:11,600
It.
They were just trying to get

405
00:25:11,600 --> 00:25:16,000
some relief and yet now it is a
standard.

406
00:25:16,000 --> 00:25:20,700
It is now a Doctrine.
It is it has become it wasn't

407
00:25:20,700 --> 00:25:22,900
intended to be that, but they
were also told not to do that,

408
00:25:22,900 --> 00:25:26,400
they will Top.
They were told not to make a

409
00:25:26,400 --> 00:25:29,600
deal with the US government, not
to try to appease them and they

410
00:25:29,600 --> 00:25:32,600
did and they did it.
And if it's just thinking about

411
00:25:32,600 --> 00:25:39,300
President woodruff's Manifesto,
he never even says the word Mm.

412
00:25:39,300 --> 00:25:42,300
And he says, I strongly
recommend, right?

413
00:25:42,300 --> 00:25:50,500
I know he and I find it
interesting that the president

414
00:25:50,500 --> 00:25:52,700
Woodruff left some wiggle room
there.

415
00:25:54,700 --> 00:25:59,600
And then, but when the vaccine
rolls out, you didn't have that

416
00:25:59,600 --> 00:26:06,600
kind of wiggle room, right?
This was I strongly encourage

417
00:26:06,600 --> 00:26:10,800
you or, you know, not quite
saying I command, but it was, it

418
00:26:10,800 --> 00:26:13,800
was darn close.
But what does that even mean

419
00:26:13,800 --> 00:26:14,400
though?
Right?

420
00:26:14,400 --> 00:26:16,300
Because I mean, you look in the
LDS church right now.

421
00:26:16,300 --> 00:26:19,500
The word of wisdom, the word of
wisdom, the Revelation

422
00:26:19,500 --> 00:26:22,400
explicitly says that this is not
to be a commandment.

423
00:26:23,900 --> 00:26:26,500
And yet, it has now become a de
facto commandment.

424
00:26:26,500 --> 00:26:33,400
You will be the blessings of the
temple are going to be withheld

425
00:26:33,400 --> 00:26:37,600
from you.
If you do not obey this non

426
00:26:37,600 --> 00:26:40,600
commandment, it's become a
commandment.

427
00:26:40,600 --> 00:26:44,500
And so it's things like that
that create this kind of a

428
00:26:44,508 --> 00:26:51,800
culture and this idea of that.
you need to even if it's not

429
00:26:51,800 --> 00:26:58,600
commanded you need you need to
do this in No, I'm having facial

430
00:26:58,600 --> 00:26:59,200
hair.
Right?

431
00:26:59,200 --> 00:27:00,400
Where's where's the Commandment
that?

432
00:27:00,400 --> 00:27:03,200
Says that men should not have
facial hair.

433
00:27:04,800 --> 00:27:09,200
And yet at BYU well, outside of
certain things like a mustache,

434
00:27:09,200 --> 00:27:10,600
I think.
But you can't have a beard, you

435
00:27:10,600 --> 00:27:12,800
can't have a beard at BYU,
right.

436
00:27:12,800 --> 00:27:15,800
And not only, can you not have
not have a beer to BYU?

437
00:27:16,000 --> 00:27:18,800
You're not supposed to, you
can't have a beard.

438
00:27:18,900 --> 00:27:22,900
If you're going to become a
general Authority and you and I

439
00:27:22,900 --> 00:27:27,000
mean it's very, very rarely that
I've ever seen you in a bishop,

440
00:27:27,200 --> 00:27:30,900
have a beard.
And well, what is that?

441
00:27:30,900 --> 00:27:34,100
Where is that coming from?
If that's not a That there's no

442
00:27:34,100 --> 00:27:36,000
Doctrine behind it.
What's going on?

443
00:27:36,000 --> 00:27:38,500
And I asked, I asked a bishop
when I was when I was, when I

444
00:27:38,500 --> 00:27:43,100
was going to college about that,
and he was just like, well, you

445
00:27:43,100 --> 00:27:46,000
know, look at the Brethren and
mimic them.

446
00:27:47,600 --> 00:27:50,100
Even if they don't command you
to just look to them and try to

447
00:27:50,100 --> 00:27:55,400
emulate their example.
But where is that coming from?

448
00:27:55,400 --> 00:27:58,700
Like what where's the scripture?
Where's the doctrine that says

449
00:27:58,700 --> 00:28:05,000
that we're supposed to look to
these men in such a way that we

450
00:28:05,600 --> 00:28:08,600
seek to emulate every little
thing about them?

451
00:28:08,800 --> 00:28:14,500
The way they the way they
manager themselves, right?

452
00:28:15,600 --> 00:28:20,400
You know I certainly think that
we can certainly look to leaders

453
00:28:20,400 --> 00:28:23,100
and find certain qualities that
we find in.

454
00:28:23,300 --> 00:28:27,300
Operational that perhaps we
would like to mimic right?

455
00:28:27,300 --> 00:28:29,500
Good quality.
Yeah, you know, I love the way

456
00:28:29,500 --> 00:28:34,800
this guy framed certain topics.
Or, you know, I love how he

457
00:28:34,800 --> 00:28:38,300
conducts himself with his family
or any number of things, right?

458
00:28:38,700 --> 00:28:44,400
So many my knowledge, there was
only one individual we were

459
00:28:44,400 --> 00:28:48,200
supposed to try to emulate.
That was the Savior, right?

460
00:28:48,200 --> 00:28:52,800
That was the one that we were
supposed to supposed to kind of

461
00:28:52,800 --> 00:28:55,300
hit you.
Our wagons too, so to speak and

462
00:28:55,300 --> 00:28:57,700
try to really do everything that
he does.

463
00:28:59,100 --> 00:29:04,600
Yeah, and so in this talk Elder
Haney shares what he calls a

464
00:29:04,608 --> 00:29:08,300
parable.
And in this Parable he's getting

465
00:29:08,300 --> 00:29:11,700
lunch and this was actually, I
thought it was kind of

466
00:29:11,700 --> 00:29:14,800
interesting because he said, he
said that my insecurities caused

467
00:29:14,800 --> 00:29:18,700
me to make a quick detour away
from that table, where president

468
00:29:18,700 --> 00:29:24,000
Nelson, and, and the in his
counselors were sitting, And I

469
00:29:24,008 --> 00:29:28,900
thought, and I think to myself
why there isn't that may be a

470
00:29:28,900 --> 00:29:34,300
valuable lesson in this Parable,
why would he feel insecure about

471
00:29:34,300 --> 00:29:39,200
sitting at a table with a fellow
brother in Christ?

472
00:29:41,400 --> 00:29:44,500
Unless he saw him as something
different.

473
00:29:45,000 --> 00:29:48,100
Right?
Well, I think that's, I think

474
00:29:48,100 --> 00:29:54,300
that's just it, I think.
I'm trying hard to be diplomatic

475
00:29:54,300 --> 00:29:58,200
here, you know what?
Screw it.

476
00:29:59,000 --> 00:30:04,900
So, That's a meant for
apprehension that I think we're

477
00:30:04,900 --> 00:30:08,000
all going to feel a little bit.
When we have our encounter with

478
00:30:08,000 --> 00:30:15,600
the Savior, some has been
transferred to Mortal men who

479
00:30:15,600 --> 00:30:21,800
hold certain positions and
that's a little worrisome.

480
00:30:21,800 --> 00:30:30,900
Absolutely.
And I have to ask myself, what

481
00:30:30,900 --> 00:30:33,300
was the point of this Parable?
Because Cuz you know just to

482
00:30:33,300 --> 00:30:34,600
just to go over right?
It.

483
00:30:34,600 --> 00:30:38,000
What happens is President
Nelson, flattens his water

484
00:30:38,000 --> 00:30:44,300
bottle and he's too curious but
he doesn't dare ask which,

485
00:30:44,300 --> 00:30:47,700
again, it shows a weird.
I mean, what kind of the is kind

486
00:30:47,700 --> 00:30:50,700
of shows that an idolatry.
I'll just be, there's that shows

487
00:30:50,700 --> 00:30:52,400
an idolatrous relationship,
right?

488
00:30:52,600 --> 00:30:54,800
That's not the way that you
behave around people that you

489
00:30:54,800 --> 00:30:59,400
see is as, as equals and we are
equals.

490
00:30:59,400 --> 00:31:02,800
There's not that we're all at
different points on our Anybody

491
00:31:03,000 --> 00:31:05,600
but under Christ we are all
equals.

492
00:31:05,600 --> 00:31:15,900
There is no man that is set
above us to be some kind of

493
00:31:15,900 --> 00:31:19,500
intercessor between us and God
other than Christ himself.

494
00:31:21,200 --> 00:31:25,400
You know, it's so yeah.
I totally agree and and let's

495
00:31:25,400 --> 00:31:29,400
look at the men who really,
really hold up within the

496
00:31:29,400 --> 00:31:32,800
gospel.
That.

497
00:31:34,000 --> 00:31:36,600
If there was someone that maybe
we should feel uncomfortable

498
00:31:36,600 --> 00:31:41,700
with it would be these guys.
Right.

499
00:31:41,800 --> 00:31:45,400
Let's start with the with Joseph
Smith, right?

500
00:31:45,900 --> 00:31:49,900
All the accounts are, this is a
guy who makes people feel very

501
00:31:49,900 --> 00:31:52,500
comfortable around him, right?
Yeah.

502
00:31:52,500 --> 00:31:58,900
The guy that people flocked to
wanted to talk with wanted to to

503
00:31:58,900 --> 00:32:04,000
be in association with likewise,
he appears to be a guy who Hopes

504
00:32:04,000 --> 00:32:07,100
to be around these people, you
know, around people.

505
00:32:07,900 --> 00:32:11,300
And let's look at the Savior,
right?

506
00:32:11,400 --> 00:32:18,100
The savior of all mankind.
The most powerful being perhaps

507
00:32:18,100 --> 00:32:23,400
with the exception of Adam and
his his glory has ever stepped

508
00:32:23,400 --> 00:32:27,000
foot on the earth.
And what's all the accounts of

509
00:32:27,000 --> 00:32:30,800
Jesus?
Yeah, comment.

510
00:32:30,800 --> 00:32:34,500
Yeah, everybody.
Come here, come here and and and

511
00:32:34,500 --> 00:32:41,900
so you look at this dichotomy
and look, I try never to bring

512
00:32:43,000 --> 00:32:45,000
the church.
I attend into the podcast a

513
00:32:45,000 --> 00:32:47,400
whole bunch, because some point,
I'm going to say something that

514
00:32:47,700 --> 00:32:52,500
it's going to be, okay.
But anyway, like when, when I

515
00:32:52,508 --> 00:32:55,000
first joined the branch and
someone says, you want to meet

516
00:32:55,000 --> 00:32:57,700
the prophet?
And I'm like, no, no, I don't,

517
00:32:57,700 --> 00:33:02,300
but thanks for offering and I
because I still have the, the,

518
00:33:02,900 --> 00:33:05,300
the old frame of reference,
right?

519
00:33:06,500 --> 00:33:11,200
And I meet this guy and he's
Completely warm and welcoming

520
00:33:11,200 --> 00:33:17,500
and open and doesn't give off
that Vibe of, you know, your

521
00:33:17,500 --> 00:33:20,500
lesser than sort of a thing,
right?

522
00:33:20,800 --> 00:33:26,000
And so I think if we look at
guys who are truly trying to

523
00:33:26,000 --> 00:33:31,100
emulate the savior, Or the
Savior himself.

524
00:33:31,500 --> 00:33:35,200
There is a warmth that is
radiated that draws people to

525
00:33:35,200 --> 00:33:38,300
them.
Now, if you're feeling repelled,

526
00:33:39,300 --> 00:33:41,700
you have to ask the question.
Why is that?

527
00:33:42,000 --> 00:33:47,900
My guess is, is because you've
transformed, you've transferred

528
00:33:47,900 --> 00:33:51,300
a sense of reverence that should
be reserved for the Savior onto

529
00:33:51,300 --> 00:33:54,800
a mortal individual.
Yeah, exactly.

530
00:33:54,800 --> 00:33:57,500
And I think that in that
context, this is a great

531
00:33:57,500 --> 00:34:00,000
Parable, that's a great pair of
all.

532
00:34:00,000 --> 00:34:03,200
I'm glad it was shared.
I don't think that's the point.

533
00:34:03,200 --> 00:34:08,600
That that, that he was going for
though, think so either.

534
00:34:11,300 --> 00:34:16,600
Yeah, so he goes on and he
explains how and I mean to be

535
00:34:16,600 --> 00:34:20,800
fair he does describe president
has been very welcoming and and

536
00:34:20,800 --> 00:34:26,400
personable and you know inviting
him over but he shows him the

537
00:34:26,400 --> 00:34:31,100
proper way to to, crush a water
bottle and then teaches everyone

538
00:34:31,100 --> 00:34:33,000
else to proper way to crush a
water bottle.

539
00:34:33,000 --> 00:34:38,900
And and he asked this question,
is this like some sort of the

540
00:34:38,900 --> 00:34:42,699
new policy is this No, is in the
cafeteria.

541
00:34:42,699 --> 00:34:47,400
Is this how we're supposed to do
this from now on and and

542
00:34:47,400 --> 00:34:50,000
president Oaks just kind of
smiles and says, well, you need

543
00:34:50,000 --> 00:34:53,900
to follow the prophet.
I would presume that was being

544
00:34:53,900 --> 00:34:56,300
tongue-in-cheek, right?
Right.

545
00:34:56,300 --> 00:34:59,800
That was humor but if it was
humor than what is the point of

546
00:34:59,800 --> 00:35:02,500
this Parable?
What is he trying to say?

547
00:35:04,600 --> 00:35:09,200
Because it's not very clear.
It seems to be saying that he's

548
00:35:09,200 --> 00:35:11,300
saying.
Well, you do need to follow up,

549
00:35:11,300 --> 00:35:13,800
not not tongue-in-cheek.
You need to follow a prophet but

550
00:35:13,800 --> 00:35:17,500
no in all seriousness, you need
to follow the prophet.

551
00:35:19,600 --> 00:35:24,900
Well, and I don't think, okay,
so here's the thing, whether

552
00:35:24,900 --> 00:35:27,600
whether they're, you know,
whether you think there's a

553
00:35:27,600 --> 00:35:31,800
prophet on the Earth today or
not or whether you think there's

554
00:35:31,800 --> 00:35:35,000
one to come.
I think there is this idea of

555
00:35:35,000 --> 00:35:39,700
and we can see it throughout
throughout the early days of the

556
00:35:39,700 --> 00:35:45,100
restoration of, you know, You
might want to heat prophetic

557
00:35:45,100 --> 00:35:52,800
counsel when it's given, right?
But But don't, I think there has

558
00:35:52,800 --> 00:35:55,500
to be a litmus test there to
make sure that that prophetic

559
00:35:55,500 --> 00:36:02,300
counsel is in keeping with the
standards of the restored

560
00:36:02,300 --> 00:36:07,500
gospel, right?
And so it better profits and it

561
00:36:07,500 --> 00:36:11,600
had better line up with
scripture to a degree.

562
00:36:11,600 --> 00:36:14,300
I here's the thing.
That bothers me about this, here

563
00:36:14,300 --> 00:36:18,400
he is sharing an example of,
which is intended to present

564
00:36:18,400 --> 00:36:21,100
this idea of the Portents of
following prophetic counsel

565
00:36:22,300 --> 00:36:26,100
where is an example of him.
Following president, Nelson's

566
00:36:26,100 --> 00:36:29,900
prophetic counsel and it turning
out to be a blessing.

567
00:36:31,800 --> 00:36:33,300
If that's the point, he's trying
to make.

568
00:36:33,300 --> 00:36:35,200
Why is that not the example?
He's sharing.

569
00:36:35,200 --> 00:36:36,900
Why this weird convoluted
example?

570
00:36:36,900 --> 00:36:42,300
About a cafeteria right now, I
can share something myself.

571
00:36:42,700 --> 00:36:45,000
I'm actually a descendant of
Israel Barlow.

572
00:36:45,800 --> 00:36:50,600
Okay.
And there is a story in my

573
00:36:50,600 --> 00:36:56,200
family by if I share it no
please do.

574
00:36:57,500 --> 00:37:00,500
All right, so there's actually a
couple stories.

575
00:37:00,500 --> 00:37:01,400
I'm going to show the second one
in.

576
00:37:01,600 --> 00:37:04,100
Well, a little better known, so
on another occasion.

577
00:37:04,100 --> 00:37:06,700
My great-great-grandfather was
was assisting in building, the

578
00:37:06,700 --> 00:37:09,300
template Nauvoo and was driving
a pair of beautiful

579
00:37:09,300 --> 00:37:13,100
high-spirited black Mayors.
He took great pride in the fact

580
00:37:13,100 --> 00:37:16,700
that his animals answered to his
commands and never had to use a

581
00:37:16,707 --> 00:37:21,600
whip on them because on them, to
make them mind because he was a

582
00:37:21,600 --> 00:37:25,200
kind man and well respected,
because it is care with animals

583
00:37:26,300 --> 00:37:30,000
one day while backing his Wagon
at, in at the query Quarry,

584
00:37:30,300 --> 00:37:31,400
which was down by the River's
Edge.

585
00:37:31,500 --> 00:37:33,300
Age.
The Prophet came over to him and

586
00:37:33,300 --> 00:37:37,500
said Israel on your next trip
stop and buy yourself a buggy

587
00:37:37,500 --> 00:37:41,800
whip.
To which he assented on his next

588
00:37:41,800 --> 00:37:44,100
trip.
Uptown he bought a buggy Whip

589
00:37:44,100 --> 00:37:47,400
and returned for another load of
rock, backing the team in this

590
00:37:47,400 --> 00:37:49,400
time.
He attempted to stop them as

591
00:37:49,400 --> 00:37:52,300
usual by saying woe to which
they paid.

592
00:37:52,300 --> 00:37:54,900
No attention.
But kept backing until Israel in

593
00:37:54,900 --> 00:37:58,100
excitement was compelled to use
the whip, which the prophet told

594
00:37:58,100 --> 00:38:01,400
him to buy the horses jump
forward, and the wagon stopped

595
00:38:01,400 --> 00:38:03,800
right at the edge of the Quarry
Beyond which there would have

596
00:38:03,800 --> 00:38:09,400
plunged below.
That's a story of getting some

597
00:38:09,400 --> 00:38:14,300
prophetic counsel and it's
clearly prophetic.

598
00:38:14,300 --> 00:38:16,500
There's fruits.
You can see the fruits of it.

599
00:38:17,700 --> 00:38:22,300
and, He you can look at this, he
wasn't asked to do anything that

600
00:38:22,300 --> 00:38:26,400
violated his conscience Prophet
Joseph, didn't tell them hey you

601
00:38:26,400 --> 00:38:29,000
know what, start using a whip on
your animals.

602
00:38:29,400 --> 00:38:31,300
That wasn't what he just told
him to buy one.

603
00:38:31,800 --> 00:38:35,200
He didn't say to use it.
He just said to buy one and he

604
00:38:35,207 --> 00:38:39,600
did and he had no intention of
using it until he needed to to

605
00:38:39,600 --> 00:38:44,500
say, to save his life, right?
And that came from previous

606
00:38:44,500 --> 00:38:47,200
experiences with the Prophet
Joseph Smith, where he had given

607
00:38:47,200 --> 00:38:49,400
him counsel and some of the
things he was doing.

608
00:38:50,300 --> 00:38:55,200
Which ultimately saved him.
From, what would have?

609
00:38:55,200 --> 00:38:59,200
Otherwise, been destruction.
So there's a pattern here of of

610
00:39:00,000 --> 00:39:04,500
truly inspired prophetic
counsel, where is that, where

611
00:39:04,500 --> 00:39:06,900
but like, in this, where is that
in the story?

612
00:39:07,300 --> 00:39:10,200
Where is this, where he
crunched, his water bottle, the

613
00:39:10,200 --> 00:39:14,800
way that President Nelson told
him to and miraculously this and

614
00:39:14,800 --> 00:39:18,100
this and this happened.
And he and inverted some

615
00:39:18,200 --> 00:39:22,100
horrible crisis.
It's it's not there.

616
00:39:22,100 --> 00:39:26,100
It's this isn't really a story
of faith and inspired prophetic

617
00:39:26,100 --> 00:39:30,800
counsel.
It's the story of idolatry as

618
00:39:30,800 --> 00:39:35,300
it's the story of of kind of
leader worship.

619
00:39:35,300 --> 00:39:40,700
I door idol worship and there's
no, there's no payoff, there's

620
00:39:40,700 --> 00:39:46,800
no inspired fruit.
And I think that's important

621
00:39:47,600 --> 00:39:50,500
because he could have shared he
in the same talk, he could have

622
00:39:50,500 --> 00:39:52,500
shared my great-grandfather
story.

623
00:39:53,600 --> 00:39:57,000
As an example of why you should
follow prophetic counsel, why

624
00:39:57,000 --> 00:39:59,300
didn't why didn't he have
anything here to share?

625
00:39:59,500 --> 00:40:03,300
I don't, I don't know, but the
story is kind of empty and to me

626
00:40:03,300 --> 00:40:06,900
it's actually scary, its kind of
cult like Behavior.

627
00:40:07,600 --> 00:40:13,400
Yeah, to to go beyond even
obedience Beyond obedience and

628
00:40:13,400 --> 00:40:19,000
into emulation to such in such a
degree on things that aren't

629
00:40:19,000 --> 00:40:23,300
even being asked of you, right?
Right.

630
00:40:23,400 --> 00:40:25,800
Yeah, no I could I could see
that.

631
00:40:28,500 --> 00:40:31,700
And so you really feel like this
was aimed at members of the

632
00:40:31,700 --> 00:40:33,600
church who didn't take the
vaccine.

633
00:40:34,600 --> 00:40:39,200
Absolutely.
So as he goes on and talks about

634
00:40:39,200 --> 00:40:44,200
the the importance of following
the, the importance of having

635
00:40:44,200 --> 00:40:49,100
this divine inspiration from a
prophet, in the latter days that

636
00:40:49,100 --> 00:40:53,800
these are hard times, there's
great turmoil and more than

637
00:40:53,800 --> 00:40:55,700
ever.
These are the, this is a

638
00:40:55,700 --> 00:40:57,900
blessing that we need in our
lives.

639
00:40:59,100 --> 00:41:02,100
Right?
And I don't disagree with the

640
00:41:02,100 --> 00:41:04,400
context at all.
I think he's completely accurate

641
00:41:04,400 --> 00:41:11,400
in describing that, but He says
and it's right here says it is

642
00:41:11,400 --> 00:41:14,200
that very Council that will
allow the rising generation to

643
00:41:14,200 --> 00:41:17,900
see the enemy, while he is, yet
far off and then they can be

644
00:41:17,900 --> 00:41:19,900
ready to withstand the enemies
attack.

645
00:41:21,400 --> 00:41:27,800
Are seemingly small deviations.
Small deviations, right?

646
00:41:27,800 --> 00:41:30,400
That's right.
What's a, what's a small that's

647
00:41:30,400 --> 00:41:32,300
means.
I'm mostly complying but I'm

648
00:41:32,300 --> 00:41:34,600
just changed the way I'm do.
I'm still obeying?

649
00:41:35,100 --> 00:41:37,800
I'm just doing it in a slightly
different way.

650
00:41:39,200 --> 00:41:44,300
Or quiet, neglect, quiet neglect
that saying, you know what, I

651
00:41:44,300 --> 00:41:46,600
don't feel good about this.
I'm not going to do it.

652
00:41:46,600 --> 00:41:48,800
I'm not going to say anything.
I'm not going to raise a fuss.

653
00:41:48,800 --> 00:41:52,900
I'm not gonna Bear My Testimony
in the next fast and testimony

654
00:41:52,900 --> 00:41:57,300
meeting about how how dangerous
these the Jabs are, but I'm just

655
00:41:57,300 --> 00:42:00,200
quietly.
I'm going to neglect to get that

656
00:42:00,200 --> 00:42:12,900
vaccine or whispered criticisms.
which, I mean, criticism is such

657
00:42:12,900 --> 00:42:16,300
a maligned word, but I think
it's such an important work

658
00:42:18,300 --> 00:42:22,300
criticism.
Is not a negative thing.

659
00:42:22,300 --> 00:42:25,500
It's not a bad thing.
It can be in, when done in a bad

660
00:42:25,500 --> 00:42:28,700
Spirit, but there is such thing
as constructive.

661
00:42:28,700 --> 00:42:32,400
Criticism criticism is the
foundation of critical thinking.

662
00:42:34,100 --> 00:42:36,000
We're told the glory of God is
intelligence.

663
00:42:37,400 --> 00:42:42,700
But if if criticism and critical
thinking become villainized,

664
00:42:43,100 --> 00:42:47,200
then we're saying that the glory
of God Is Blind obedience and

665
00:42:47,200 --> 00:42:51,300
slavery.
But these are the these are the

666
00:42:51,300 --> 00:42:54,000
three are seemingly small
deviations, quite neglect or

667
00:42:54,000 --> 00:42:55,700
whispered.
Criticisms in response to

668
00:42:55,707 --> 00:42:58,500
prophetic counsel.
May result in are only walking

669
00:42:58,500 --> 00:43:00,500
dangerously near the edge of the
Covenant path.

670
00:43:00,500 --> 00:43:05,900
So doing that might not may be
an apostate, but when magnified

671
00:43:05,900 --> 00:43:08,600
by the adversary in the life of
the rising generation, such

672
00:43:08,600 --> 00:43:13,200
actions May influence them to
leave the path altogether, such

673
00:43:13,200 --> 00:43:15,900
a result is a generational price
that is too high.

674
00:43:16,200 --> 00:43:20,600
This is I was going to I was
going to I was So upset, I was

675
00:43:20,600 --> 00:43:24,500
going to throw a chair at my at
my computer when I heard this.

676
00:43:27,600 --> 00:43:30,800
But I mean, but seriously, this
is Abyss is a big deal, okay,

677
00:43:30,800 --> 00:43:34,300
because he's not just saying
that you need to do this, this

678
00:43:34,300 --> 00:43:37,100
is what you need.
He's saying that if you don't

679
00:43:37,400 --> 00:43:42,100
your children's souls are at
stake, Right.

680
00:43:44,400 --> 00:43:51,700
So as I as I think about this
quite a bit, right?

681
00:43:52,400 --> 00:43:56,900
I am somewhat sympathetic to the
leadership of the LDS church

682
00:43:56,900 --> 00:44:01,000
during this pandemic, right?
Because they have a decision to

683
00:44:01,000 --> 00:44:03,900
make, right?
Which is how are they going to

684
00:44:03,900 --> 00:44:07,500
advise their people knowing that
they're there?

685
00:44:09,300 --> 00:44:11,200
What they say is going to carry
some weight?

686
00:44:12,200 --> 00:44:15,400
Hmm.
So I try to be a bit sympathetic

687
00:44:15,400 --> 00:44:25,500
to that, but in looking at and
reading the statement that was

688
00:44:25,500 --> 00:44:32,000
given by by President Nelson and
the first presidency, it was we

689
00:44:32,000 --> 00:44:36,100
encourage every member of the
church to get this vaccine.

690
00:44:36,500 --> 00:44:41,700
It's safe, it's effective, it's
the only I believe he said it.

691
00:44:41,900 --> 00:44:45,200
It's the only way out of this
pandemic essentially and a

692
00:44:45,200 --> 00:44:50,600
return to normalcy.
I just want to examine those a

693
00:44:50,600 --> 00:44:53,500
little bit those claims, right?
Absolutely.

694
00:44:53,500 --> 00:44:56,800
Let's look at that because I
think that's super important.

695
00:44:56,800 --> 00:45:00,300
Oh, I am so getting taken off
YouTube for this one.

696
00:45:01,500 --> 00:45:05,100
Oh yeah.
First off, I'm just going to

697
00:45:05,100 --> 00:45:09,000
announce something here.
I haven't announced until just

698
00:45:09,000 --> 00:45:11,600
this second and I think it's
super important that I do.

699
00:45:12,200 --> 00:45:20,100
So people understand in a today
is May 3rd 20:23 in about a week

700
00:45:20,100 --> 00:45:25,600
and a half, I'm going to have a
brand new website where it's

701
00:45:25,600 --> 00:45:28,000
going to be really hard to get
rid of me.

702
00:45:29,200 --> 00:45:33,900
All of my episodes will be
self-contained video, some new

703
00:45:33,900 --> 00:45:38,300
bells and whistles.
Some extra content is going to

704
00:45:38,308 --> 00:45:45,000
be available just just so I can
have these conversations, right?

705
00:45:46,400 --> 00:45:50,300
I'm not big enough to Get to
Garner the kind of respect that.

706
00:45:50,300 --> 00:45:55,900
Maybe some other big podcasters
have, I'm just not that big.

707
00:45:56,000 --> 00:45:58,900
I'm cool with that, but I got to
take steps to make sure that the

708
00:45:58,900 --> 00:46:02,000
audience can still find me.
So in about a week week and a

709
00:46:02,000 --> 00:46:05,900
half, maybe two tops, they'll be
a brand new website where no one

710
00:46:05,900 --> 00:46:09,200
will be able to take me off.
So hopefully I get this released

711
00:46:09,200 --> 00:46:12,700
about that time because this
next statement these next few

712
00:46:12,700 --> 00:46:15,600
statements that they're
definitely going to D platform

713
00:46:15,600 --> 00:46:17,500
me.
Okay.

714
00:46:18,600 --> 00:46:23,600
First let's talk about the
vaccine being effective, we know

715
00:46:23,600 --> 00:46:26,500
it was not effective that's not
my words.

716
00:46:26,900 --> 00:46:31,400
That's the cdc's words, okay?
At best you could call the

717
00:46:31,400 --> 00:46:36,400
vaccine a therapeutic.
Right.

718
00:46:36,500 --> 00:46:41,400
That it that's it.
Best that it may be lessen.

719
00:46:41,400 --> 00:46:45,500
The symptoms.
Let's talk about it being safe

720
00:46:46,100 --> 00:46:49,300
and I've been public on here.
I took the first Jab.

721
00:46:50,500 --> 00:46:55,600
Because my wife had some things,
we prayed about it and we felt

722
00:46:55,600 --> 00:46:58,000
like, okay, let's do this.
And then the Lord was very

723
00:46:58,000 --> 00:47:03,900
clear, no more, no more.
So, we took the first chap.

724
00:47:07,500 --> 00:47:10,400
And praise God.
We haven't had any ill effects

725
00:47:10,400 --> 00:47:15,600
or anything but we know beyond a
shadow of a doubt that there

726
00:47:15,600 --> 00:47:22,400
were cases of myocarditis That
occurred because of the vaccine.

727
00:47:24,800 --> 00:47:27,000
So you can't see.
It was safe for everybody.

728
00:47:27,500 --> 00:47:31,300
You can't say it's effective.
Those two statements don't hold

729
00:47:31,300 --> 00:47:36,600
water.
Down to two to quote.

730
00:47:37,100 --> 00:47:40,900
I am so getting kicked off to
quote my favorite little Health.

731
00:47:40,900 --> 00:47:46,500
Not see, you know, it's safe and
effective, it really wasn't.

732
00:47:46,500 --> 00:47:49,800
Okay, the guy he said, Don't
wear a mask wear a mask.

733
00:47:49,800 --> 00:47:52,100
Don't worry, I'm a square.
I'm a square two masks, don't

734
00:47:52,100 --> 00:47:55,900
wear a mask, just kidding.
That's that's the other thing,

735
00:47:55,900 --> 00:47:58,400
right?
In the same speech, if I'm not

736
00:47:58,400 --> 00:48:01,800
mistaken, president, Nelson
encourages everyone to keep

737
00:48:01,800 --> 00:48:05,900
wearing masks.
We know from foul cheese first,

738
00:48:05,900 --> 00:48:11,000
email, that went out to somebody
at the who if I'm not mistaken

739
00:48:11,700 --> 00:48:19,100
that he said the masks were
ineffective, then he, they even

740
00:48:19,100 --> 00:48:22,300
say that publicly look, this is
an Airborne virus, the chances

741
00:48:22,300 --> 00:48:26,200
of you being able to keep it out
by a mask, are slim to none.

742
00:48:26,600 --> 00:48:29,500
Then all of a sudden they
changed him bow and they say no,

743
00:48:29,500 --> 00:48:33,000
we need a mask.
You, you have to wear a mask or

744
00:48:33,000 --> 00:48:39,100
else you can't go out in public.
Then after the pandemics over,

745
00:48:39,100 --> 00:48:41,900
they say you have a mass didn't
do much.

746
00:48:43,200 --> 00:48:50,100
Okay, so we know the masks were
largely ineffective, right?

747
00:48:50,200 --> 00:48:53,000
Could you just stop some things?
Sure, if you work often, I

748
00:48:53,000 --> 00:48:56,300
suppose, you know, certain
droplets could have been

749
00:48:56,300 --> 00:49:00,400
prevented from being spewed out,
but by and large The Masks were

750
00:49:00,400 --> 00:49:04,400
ineffective.
All those things.

751
00:49:04,800 --> 00:49:09,500
President Nelson.
Threw his weight behind and from

752
00:49:10,400 --> 00:49:13,700
and I want to be gentle here, I
really am trying to be gentle,

753
00:49:14,100 --> 00:49:19,200
but from a LDS person's
perspective, not only is your

754
00:49:19,200 --> 00:49:25,100
profit and your leader but he's
also a doctor right here, what

755
00:49:25,100 --> 00:49:27,400
he's saying is going to carry
some weight.

756
00:49:27,800 --> 00:49:34,800
No, now when all of those
statements come back as largely

757
00:49:34,800 --> 00:49:41,100
being proven wrong, What are you
left with your you will?

758
00:49:41,100 --> 00:49:44,200
You're left with a profits, only
a prophet when he's speaking as

759
00:49:44,200 --> 00:49:48,100
a prophet and that was just him
speaking as a man, traditionally

760
00:49:48,300 --> 00:49:50,900
that that's that.
That was, that is the out, that

761
00:49:50,900 --> 00:49:55,300
is the explanation, but you
can't fault, you can't.

762
00:49:55,300 --> 00:49:57,900
They can't use that anymore,
right?

763
00:49:58,600 --> 00:50:00,400
They can't use that.
They can't say that anymore.

764
00:50:00,400 --> 00:50:04,000
They doubled down and this is
what was so sickening they

765
00:50:04,000 --> 00:50:06,400
double down on.
And that's what this talk is

766
00:50:06,400 --> 00:50:08,300
done.
I'm doubling down on that issue

767
00:50:08,700 --> 00:50:13,000
and assisting that that it
doesn't matter well, maybe it

768
00:50:13,000 --> 00:50:15,400
maybe, it doesn't matter.
They need to get the vaccine to

769
00:50:15,400 --> 00:50:19,600
save their souls because maybe
it doesn't protect its covid,

770
00:50:19,600 --> 00:50:21,200
but it, but it, but it will save
your soul.

771
00:50:21,200 --> 00:50:23,800
Maybe, I don't, I don't know.
I don't know where you can go

772
00:50:23,800 --> 00:50:28,500
with that.
But undeniably, this talk is

773
00:50:28,500 --> 00:50:32,400
aimed at the large majority, not
in the majority, the large

774
00:50:32,400 --> 00:50:35,800
amount of a large minority,
probably a decently sized

775
00:50:35,800 --> 00:50:38,600
minority of.
Church members who refused the

776
00:50:38,600 --> 00:50:42,800
vaccine and did not follow that
Council, because they looked at

777
00:50:42,800 --> 00:50:46,100
it themselves, and didn't need
to be a prophet to see.

778
00:50:46,100 --> 00:50:49,400
There's something really fishy
going on with this vaccine and

779
00:50:49,400 --> 00:50:52,000
what's being said about it.
It doesn't add up.

780
00:50:54,000 --> 00:50:57,600
I look back and I say, because I
have a lot of good friends, who

781
00:50:57,600 --> 00:51:02,400
are still active, Mormon active
LDS members.

782
00:51:03,700 --> 00:51:06,600
I asked a good friend of mine
who refused to take the Jab.

783
00:51:07,200 --> 00:51:11,000
About this very thing.
And he said, he just come

784
00:51:11,000 --> 00:51:14,200
because he took a lot of heat
from his family, for not getting

785
00:51:14,200 --> 00:51:19,400
the jab from from, not taking
the vaccine him, and his wife

786
00:51:19,400 --> 00:51:23,600
prayed about it and they were
like, no, we shouldn't get it

787
00:51:23,900 --> 00:51:27,100
and they went with their what
they received.

788
00:51:28,300 --> 00:51:31,400
But they got, they got chastised
in their family.

789
00:51:31,400 --> 00:51:36,500
They got chastised at church,
they got chastised with certain

790
00:51:36,500 --> 00:51:38,800
friends.
They lost certain friends.

791
00:51:39,200 --> 00:51:44,500
I mean this was utterly
destructive, I guess it and to

792
00:51:44,500 --> 00:51:54,100
make a blanket statement like
that, that is so vague, right?

793
00:51:54,100 --> 00:51:57,500
And in terms of this is going to
apply to everybody.

794
00:51:58,400 --> 00:52:01,700
Well not everybody is going to
respond to the vaccine is the

795
00:52:01,700 --> 00:52:06,100
way people had hoped, right?
Of course, even if it was even

796
00:52:06,100 --> 00:52:10,900
her was mostly safe and truly
was effective, it still wouldn't

797
00:52:10,900 --> 00:52:14,200
have been right for everybody.
No, and that's in that point

798
00:52:14,200 --> 00:52:15,900
medicine, doesn't work that way
medicine.

799
00:52:15,900 --> 00:52:17,300
Never works that way.
No.

800
00:52:17,700 --> 00:52:23,300
So rather than then say things
like this is the only way out.

801
00:52:23,500 --> 00:52:29,100
Maybe say something like we
wreck, you know, we We encourage

802
00:52:29,100 --> 00:52:32,700
everyone to make this a matter
of prayer and were sunk a

803
00:52:32,900 --> 00:52:35,100
revelation for it.
They had they have the

804
00:52:35,100 --> 00:52:40,300
opportunity to do that and they
just didn't well that one point

805
00:52:40,300 --> 00:52:42,900
actually might be the one thing
he was right on that.

806
00:52:42,900 --> 00:52:48,400
This is the only way out.
Not because that not what are

807
00:52:48,400 --> 00:52:50,500
you talking about?
A way out of what is this?

808
00:52:50,500 --> 00:52:54,100
The only way out of this
government control lockdown

809
00:52:54,400 --> 00:52:58,500
insanity or the only way out of
the pandemic because if And then

810
00:52:58,500 --> 00:53:00,100
make.
Now we were mostly already out

811
00:53:00,100 --> 00:53:01,600
of it at that point.
By the time, they were pushing

812
00:53:01,600 --> 00:53:03,800
the vaccines almost.
Everybody had already had it the

813
00:53:03,800 --> 00:53:07,500
rates the people die, people
weren't dying from it as much

814
00:53:07,500 --> 00:53:08,800
anymore.
And I do believe that.

815
00:53:08,800 --> 00:53:11,900
I mean, I have friends that were
severely injured from the actual

816
00:53:11,900 --> 00:53:17,300
covid virus.
So it wasn't a, a non-issue, I'm

817
00:53:17,300 --> 00:53:20,000
not saying that but the
government turned it into

818
00:53:20,000 --> 00:53:23,100
something the world government
turned it into something that

819
00:53:23,100 --> 00:53:26,300
we've never seen.
We've never seen in our

820
00:53:26,300 --> 00:53:31,300
lifetimes and And as far as
getting out of that, there might

821
00:53:31,300 --> 00:53:34,500
have been some truth to that.
Because you told me, we were

822
00:53:34,500 --> 00:53:35,800
getting the government off our
back on.

823
00:53:35,800 --> 00:53:39,800
This is is take the shot.
Otherwise it's going to.

824
00:53:39,800 --> 00:53:42,000
They're going to just keep
turning the screws and turning

825
00:53:42,000 --> 00:53:43,300
the screws and turning the
screws.

826
00:53:44,700 --> 00:53:46,900
Although the alternative also
could have been if enough people

827
00:53:46,900 --> 00:53:50,600
resisted.
Then we also could have through

828
00:53:50,600 --> 00:53:54,000
non-compliance could have also
gotten out of it that way.

829
00:53:54,000 --> 00:53:57,700
So I guess maybe I don't agree
with that entirely but I can see

830
00:53:57,700 --> 00:54:01,200
a A point in that aspect, but
only that aspect and, you know,

831
00:54:01,200 --> 00:54:03,200
you're talking about the
ramifications and I remember I

832
00:54:03,207 --> 00:54:07,200
was living in Utah, during a lot
of that pandemic and I remember

833
00:54:07,700 --> 00:54:11,900
in my local grocery store and
nobody's wearing a mask, even

834
00:54:11,900 --> 00:54:14,900
though the government was
recommending it, nobody was,

835
00:54:15,300 --> 00:54:18,600
everybody knew it was
ridiculous.

836
00:54:19,300 --> 00:54:22,700
And then the statement came out
with the church to asking the

837
00:54:22,707 --> 00:54:25,500
memberships to wear a mask and
the next thing, you know,

838
00:54:26,500 --> 00:54:29,100
everybody's wearing a mask of
that Grocery store, and then a

839
00:54:29,100 --> 00:54:32,400
few days later they made it
policy.

840
00:54:32,900 --> 00:54:35,000
Well, they'll throw you out.
If you don't wear a mask,

841
00:54:36,200 --> 00:54:39,500
nothing changed legally, nothing
changed legally.

842
00:54:39,900 --> 00:54:43,500
There was no new statement from
the government or the CDC or the

843
00:54:43,500 --> 00:54:46,300
Utah.
The, you know, nothing what

844
00:54:46,300 --> 00:54:52,100
changed was, this supposedly
prophetic counsel and so you can

845
00:54:52,100 --> 00:54:56,300
see the wide-ranging impact and
that my life became pretty rough

846
00:54:56,300 --> 00:54:59,700
at the after that because I II
would not wear a mask and so

847
00:54:59,700 --> 00:55:03,300
there's very few places I could
shop without being thrown out

848
00:55:03,600 --> 00:55:06,600
and even though I wasn't thrown
out still getting, you know

849
00:55:06,600 --> 00:55:07,900
you're getting dirty looks for
everybody.

850
00:55:07,900 --> 00:55:11,500
You know, and it's it can be
intimidating, it can be very

851
00:55:11,500 --> 00:55:14,600
intimidating and so you're
telling about your friends in

852
00:55:14,600 --> 00:55:18,200
the stuff that they went through
and really what's needed?

853
00:55:18,200 --> 00:55:21,500
Here is an apology What's really
needed?

854
00:55:21,500 --> 00:55:27,300
Here is an apology and instead
the end then part of this talk

855
00:55:27,300 --> 00:55:29,800
here, he says some of you may
feel, you have fallen short in

856
00:55:29,800 --> 00:55:31,900
your efforts, to follow the
counsel of present.

857
00:55:31,900 --> 00:55:34,700
Russell M, Nelson.
I feel like I do.

858
00:55:35,100 --> 00:55:40,400
I definitely fell short.
If that is the case, then pat

859
00:55:40,400 --> 00:55:42,300
yourself.
No, no then repent.

860
00:55:43,700 --> 00:55:46,700
Wow.
Then repent, you didn't get that

861
00:55:46,700 --> 00:55:50,700
Jab.
And you ignored all that crap?

862
00:55:51,300 --> 00:55:54,700
Well, to top it off.
Repent.

863
00:55:55,400 --> 00:55:59,500
Yeah.
It's just I mean talk about talk

864
00:55:59,500 --> 00:56:01,200
about getting sand.
Kicked in your face.

865
00:56:01,700 --> 00:56:05,400
Yeah, absolutely.
Set aside the distractions of

866
00:56:05,400 --> 00:56:09,500
childish cartoons and Trust the
Lord's anointed childish

867
00:56:09,500 --> 00:56:12,000
cartoons.
Is that, is that what was that?

868
00:56:12,000 --> 00:56:14,800
What this vote vaccine is?
That the things that have

869
00:56:14,800 --> 00:56:18,000
happened?
That the miscarriages, the the

870
00:56:18,000 --> 00:56:20,000
lives that have been lost that
the harm.

871
00:56:20,000 --> 00:56:23,200
The damages is though, these
aren't cartoons people?

872
00:56:23,700 --> 00:56:27,500
I hope you understand that that
this is, this is really serious.

873
00:56:29,100 --> 00:56:34,200
this is really serious stuff and
it hurts, it hurts me to have to

874
00:56:34,200 --> 00:56:43,000
say this, but If you did get the
vaccine, I would suggest you

875
00:56:43,000 --> 00:56:45,300
repent.
If you blindly follow the

876
00:56:45,300 --> 00:56:49,600
leadership against your own
conscience, I suggest you might

877
00:56:49,600 --> 00:56:53,900
consider a pending and the Lord
is merciful.

878
00:56:55,200 --> 00:56:59,300
And I know that.
There's a there's a better way.

879
00:56:59,600 --> 00:57:02,000
There's a better way.
This isn't.

880
00:57:02,000 --> 00:57:06,800
This isn't the church that this
isn't the way that Christ wants

881
00:57:06,800 --> 00:57:09,600
his church to be run.
He doesn't want blind,

882
00:57:09,600 --> 00:57:14,500
obedience, and here's the thing.
So I've got so this whole in

883
00:57:14,500 --> 00:57:17,400
this whole talk, how many
scriptures are quoted.

884
00:57:18,300 --> 00:57:22,200
I don't think any like one or
there's like one or two is then

885
00:57:22,700 --> 00:57:25,000
the Fig Leaf, you know, summer
is nigh.

886
00:57:26,000 --> 00:57:27,500
Okay.
I think there's any others.

887
00:57:27,800 --> 00:57:31,600
But none of them in the context
of the point he's arguing like

888
00:57:31,800 --> 00:57:35,600
here we have thousands of years
of history of profits on the

889
00:57:35,600 --> 00:57:39,000
Earth leading, God's people
thousands and thousands and

890
00:57:39,000 --> 00:57:43,200
thousands of years of this and
you can't come up with a single

891
00:57:43,200 --> 00:57:47,500
scripture to argue his points.
Instead, it's the circular

892
00:57:47,500 --> 00:57:52,800
Authority and the truth of the
matter is, it is circular

893
00:57:52,800 --> 00:57:55,000
Authority.
It is self-contradictory.

894
00:57:58,300 --> 00:58:01,000
There's, there's a quote I
wanted to share a couple quotes

895
00:58:01,000 --> 00:58:02,600
here from Brigham.
Young, would that be all right?

896
00:58:02,600 --> 00:58:05,300
Absolutely, I'm always down for
a little know.

897
00:58:06,400 --> 00:58:10,100
We can't trust what Brigham
Young says here because he's an

898
00:58:10,100 --> 00:58:16,600
old Prophet.
But, but nonetheless, this is,

899
00:58:16,600 --> 00:58:19,500
this is this is what some some
of Brigham Young's feelings,

900
00:58:20,400 --> 00:58:24,400
what a Pity it would be if we
were led by one man to utter

901
00:58:24,400 --> 00:58:27,500
destruction.
Are you afraid of this?

902
00:58:28,200 --> 00:58:31,300
I am more afraid that this
people have so much confidence

903
00:58:31,300 --> 00:58:34,700
in their leaders, that they will
not inquire for themselves of

904
00:58:34,700 --> 00:58:37,500
God.
Whether they are led by him, I

905
00:58:37,500 --> 00:58:42,400
am fearful they settle down in a
state of blind self-security

906
00:58:42,600 --> 00:58:46,000
trusting their Eternal Destiny
in the hands of their Leaders

907
00:58:46,000 --> 00:58:49,900
with a reckless confidence that
in itself would thwart the

908
00:58:49,900 --> 00:58:51,600
purpose of God in their
salvation.

909
00:58:52,200 --> 00:58:57,100
And weaken that influence they
could give to their L, did they

910
00:58:57,100 --> 00:59:00,400
know for themselves by the
revelations of Jesus that they

911
00:59:00,400 --> 00:59:05,300
are lead in the right way?
Let every man and woman know by

912
00:59:05,300 --> 00:59:09,400
the whisperings of the holy of
the spirit of God to themselves,

913
00:59:09,400 --> 00:59:11,700
whether their leaders are
walking in a path, the Lord

914
00:59:11,700 --> 00:59:17,500
dictates or not, this has been
my exhortation continually let

915
00:59:17,500 --> 00:59:21,300
all persons be fervent in prayer
until they know the things of

916
00:59:21,300 --> 00:59:23,900
God for themselves and become
certain that they are walking in

917
00:59:23,900 --> 00:59:25,800
the path that leads to
everlasting life.

918
00:59:26,900 --> 00:59:31,500
Journal of discourses.
Brigham Young from conference

919
00:59:31,500 --> 00:59:36,300
January January.
Not conference those January 12

920
00:59:36,500 --> 00:59:40,700
1862.
And here's another one.

921
00:59:41,300 --> 00:59:45,400
I have said to the Latter-Day
Saints, many and many a time,

922
00:59:45,800 --> 00:59:48,400
and I say to them.
Now, live, your religion, that

923
00:59:48,400 --> 00:59:52,000
the spirit of God may be with
you, lack a, well of water

924
00:59:52,000 --> 00:59:55,800
springing up to everlasting
life, suppose, I were to give

925
00:59:55,900 --> 01:00:00,000
Away, suppose I were to give way
to the spirit of the enemy and

926
01:00:00,000 --> 01:00:04,900
leave the spirit of the Gospel.
Why can't that can't be right.

927
01:00:04,900 --> 01:00:07,700
The prophets can't do that.
I thought, but regardless

928
01:00:07,700 --> 01:00:12,100
bringing posing the question,
then if you are not prepared to

929
01:00:12,100 --> 01:00:14,600
judge between the voice of the
Good Shepherd in the voice of

930
01:00:14,600 --> 01:00:19,000
the stranger, I could lead you
to ruin be prepared that you may

931
01:00:19,000 --> 01:00:21,500
know the voice.
When it comes to the Servants of

932
01:00:21,500 --> 01:00:24,600
God, then you can declare for
yourselves.

933
01:00:25,100 --> 01:00:28,300
This is the word of the Lord, my
caution and counsel to the

934
01:00:28,300 --> 01:00:30,400
Latter-Day Saints.
And to all the inhabitants of

935
01:00:30,400 --> 01:00:35,200
the earth is live.
So that you will know the truth

936
01:00:35,200 --> 01:00:37,600
from error.
I say to you Brethren and

937
01:00:37,600 --> 01:00:41,500
sisters be faithful lives with
at the Spirit of the Lord will

938
01:00:41,500 --> 01:00:44,800
abide within you, then you can
judge for yourselves.

939
01:00:45,200 --> 01:00:47,700
I have docked instead to the
Latter Day Saints live so that

940
01:00:47,700 --> 01:00:50,800
you will know whether I teach
you truth or not.

941
01:00:51,200 --> 01:00:54,500
Suppose you are careless and I'm
concerned and give way to the

942
01:00:54,500 --> 01:00:57,800
spirit of the world and I am LED
likewise to preach the things of

943
01:00:57,800 --> 01:01:02,500
the world and to accept things
that are not of God, how easy it

944
01:01:02,500 --> 01:01:03,900
would.
Would be for me to lead you

945
01:01:03,900 --> 01:01:07,700
astray.
But I say unto you live so that

946
01:01:07,700 --> 01:01:11,200
you will know for yourselves
whether I tell the truth or not.

947
01:01:13,000 --> 01:01:15,300
I mean that's some pathetic
Council.

948
01:01:16,200 --> 01:01:21,400
Yeah, and this is coming from a
guy who's often critiqued as

949
01:01:21,400 --> 01:01:26,300
being too forceful when he
commands something, right?

950
01:01:26,700 --> 01:01:31,300
Yeah, this is coming from a guy
who isn't necessarily known for

951
01:01:31,300 --> 01:01:34,400
his sparkling personality,
right?

952
01:01:34,400 --> 01:01:37,200
I mean, he's a little bit
different than what Joseph was

953
01:01:37,500 --> 01:01:40,700
and even he's like, look, get
your own Revelation on this.

954
01:01:41,800 --> 01:01:44,800
Yeah, right on.
Whatever gospel principle or

955
01:01:45,300 --> 01:01:48,900
item.
That has come to the Forefront

956
01:01:48,900 --> 01:01:51,400
that day, get your own
Revelation on it, because if

957
01:01:51,400 --> 01:01:55,200
you're relying on somebody
else's light, especially like

958
01:01:55,200 --> 01:01:58,800
the like this pandemic that we
just went through, right?

959
01:01:59,100 --> 01:02:01,100
Some people.
Absolutely.

960
01:02:01,100 --> 01:02:04,200
I will, I will go to my grave
saying this, were there people

961
01:02:04,200 --> 01:02:06,700
who were helped by the vaccine.
I'll bet you.

962
01:02:06,700 --> 01:02:08,300
There are.
I'll bet you.

963
01:02:08,308 --> 01:02:10,500
There are.
Are there people that were

964
01:02:10,500 --> 01:02:12,800
injured by the vaccine?
Absolutely.

965
01:02:13,600 --> 01:02:20,400
So it's not a An A B.
It's not black and white in this

966
01:02:20,400 --> 01:02:22,600
issue, right?
It's black and white for you as

967
01:02:22,600 --> 01:02:26,800
an individual but it's not black
and white for Humanity as a

968
01:02:26,800 --> 01:02:31,900
whole.
And so my Hope was is that they

969
01:02:31,900 --> 01:02:34,900
would be like, look pray about
this, get your own Revelation

970
01:02:34,900 --> 01:02:40,000
and then and then follow that.
So the church has your back,

971
01:02:40,000 --> 01:02:43,900
whatever it is you decide to do.
And we're not going to let this

972
01:02:43,900 --> 01:02:46,600
be a source of contention among
our members.

973
01:02:47,000 --> 01:02:53,000
But that's not what happened.
I'll just call it like I see it.

974
01:02:53,000 --> 01:02:59,800
This talk and look.
We know that nothing gets said

975
01:02:59,800 --> 01:03:03,600
from the pulpit at General
Conference without it being

976
01:03:03,600 --> 01:03:08,700
fully vetted first scrutinized,
we actually have Clips.

977
01:03:08,700 --> 01:03:11,400
I can't remember the name of the
member of the seventy in

978
01:03:11,400 --> 01:03:16,000
question, but we actually have
video evidence.

979
01:03:16,000 --> 01:03:23,900
Now of him changing a talk post.
Post General Conference.

980
01:03:24,400 --> 01:03:27,700
Yes guy came out.
He talked about, you know, at

981
01:03:27,700 --> 01:03:31,900
some point when your obedience
gets to the Lord gets to a

982
01:03:31,900 --> 01:03:34,900
certain level, is well, he's
explaining the difference

983
01:03:34,900 --> 01:03:39,000
between the priesthood and the
church exactly.

984
01:03:39,300 --> 01:03:41,600
And he was explaining them as
these things are different and

985
01:03:41,600 --> 01:03:43,000
separate.
And you need to respect them

986
01:03:43,000 --> 01:03:45,800
differently and they have
different roles and these things

987
01:03:45,800 --> 01:03:49,700
are different and somebody who
had a satellite connection back

988
01:03:49,700 --> 01:03:53,600
in that day when TVs were new
and satellite things were I had

989
01:03:53,600 --> 01:03:57,500
and they had a vcr and they
recorded that conference talk,

990
01:03:59,100 --> 01:04:01,500
this was before internet
anything like that, right?

991
01:04:01,500 --> 01:04:06,000
So somebody actually recorded
the talk and then months later

992
01:04:06,200 --> 01:04:10,900
when they released a video of
the the talk it was an entirely

993
01:04:10,900 --> 01:04:13,000
different and when they publish
the tax it was entirely

994
01:04:13,000 --> 01:04:14,200
different.
They had changed it.

995
01:04:14,400 --> 01:04:16,800
Yeah he and he went back and
they made him a even made him.

996
01:04:16,800 --> 01:04:21,400
Go back and rerecord the talk
with the corrections that they

997
01:04:21,400 --> 01:04:22,600
wanted.
Yeah.

998
01:04:22,600 --> 01:04:27,800
In an empty and aunties and made
it look like that was that was

999
01:04:27,800 --> 01:04:31,800
General Conference and the only
way we know is is that the

1000
01:04:31,800 --> 01:04:34,400
somebody happened to have
recorded the original on their

1001
01:04:34,400 --> 01:04:38,000
personal VHS.
I'll post the link to that video

1002
01:04:38,000 --> 01:04:42,100
because it's on YouTube, I'll
post a link in this in this

1003
01:04:42,900 --> 01:04:48,500
episode show notes, but my point
is, is nothing gets said in

1004
01:04:48,500 --> 01:04:53,600
general conference without it
being fully vetted, At least

1005
01:04:53,600 --> 01:04:58,200
after that, which was, I believe
again back in the 80s, early

1006
01:04:58,200 --> 01:04:59,400
80s.
Yeah.

1007
01:04:59,400 --> 01:05:04,300
And you look at the the the the
the what they went to to correct

1008
01:05:04,300 --> 01:05:06,300
it afterwards as well.
If there wasn't something that

1009
01:05:06,300 --> 01:05:08,900
need to be corrected, they will
correct it.

1010
01:05:09,000 --> 01:05:10,300
Yep.
Yep.

1011
01:05:10,600 --> 01:05:14,400
Anyway, my point was that.
Nothing gets said from the

1012
01:05:14,400 --> 01:05:16,500
pulpit, that's probably not
vetted.

1013
01:05:16,700 --> 01:05:23,600
Six ways to Sunday.
Then let's let's look at the

1014
01:05:23,600 --> 01:05:26,800
actions that the LDS church has
taken as of late.

1015
01:05:30,400 --> 01:05:35,700
There is a change happening with
in Mormonism to distance itself,

1016
01:05:35,700 --> 01:05:38,100
from kind of those Pioneer
routes.

1017
01:05:39,200 --> 01:05:42,400
Again, not that this is
doctrinal, but why is it?

1018
01:05:42,400 --> 01:05:47,700
None of the temples have the new
temples Have the angel on top

1019
01:05:47,700 --> 01:05:53,300
like they have since, I don't
know, the church began those,

1020
01:05:53,300 --> 01:05:55,200
those are gone.
Now, on the new temples.

1021
01:05:55,600 --> 01:05:58,100
Let's look at what they're doing
to the Salt Lake Temple.

1022
01:05:58,400 --> 01:06:01,500
They've gutted it, you know,
they've taken down those

1023
01:06:01,500 --> 01:06:04,700
Pioneer.
Murals, no more live sessions.

1024
01:06:04,700 --> 01:06:09,400
This will all be.
This will all be done by video

1025
01:06:09,400 --> 01:06:14,300
again.
And so you have this change

1026
01:06:14,600 --> 01:06:19,500
happening right now?
Now, and I believe this talk, we

1027
01:06:19,500 --> 01:06:23,400
will look back in 10 years.
This talk will be the talk

1028
01:06:23,400 --> 01:06:27,400
that's referenced as the moment.
The LDS church went through a

1029
01:06:27,400 --> 01:06:33,300
fundamental transformation where
we are now distancing ourselves

1030
01:06:33,500 --> 01:06:37,700
from those past profits from
those past teachings and you

1031
01:06:37,700 --> 01:06:41,400
only need to worry about the guy
who's at the helm right now.

1032
01:06:42,900 --> 01:06:54,900
Explain the dangers in that.
Well, you can you can we can see

1033
01:06:54,900 --> 01:06:56,600
all kinds of examples of the
dangers of this.

1034
01:06:56,600 --> 01:07:01,400
This is ultimately and I hate to
say this but this is what Cults

1035
01:07:01,400 --> 01:07:04,000
do.
This is what Cults do.

1036
01:07:05,500 --> 01:07:12,400
Obey US based off of us a
circular referencing Authority.

1037
01:07:12,900 --> 01:07:18,000
We there is a reason why there
are two or three witnesses that

1038
01:07:18,000 --> 01:07:19,800
that was the reason.
There's a reason why the Lord

1039
01:07:19,800 --> 01:07:23,000
operates through the law of, of
multiple Witnesses.

1040
01:07:24,200 --> 01:07:27,300
And we're supposed to have our
own witness.

1041
01:07:28,300 --> 01:07:31,400
The witness of a prophet and the
witness and the witness of

1042
01:07:31,400 --> 01:07:33,400
inspired scripture that has come
before.

1043
01:07:34,100 --> 01:07:37,500
Those things are all supposed to
work together, to give us the

1044
01:07:37,500 --> 01:07:41,700
confidence.
And that's also, it's a form of

1045
01:07:41,700 --> 01:07:45,700
protection, it helps.
If one of those things gets

1046
01:07:45,700 --> 01:07:48,500
corrupted, the other two can
help balance it.

1047
01:07:48,600 --> 01:07:51,700
If I misled in my own personal
revelation, the scriptures and

1048
01:07:51,700 --> 01:07:54,100
inspired leaders to help.
Get me get back on track.

1049
01:07:54,700 --> 01:07:57,700
If the leaders gone astray, I
can get personal revelation and

1050
01:07:57,700 --> 01:08:00,200
fines.
Pictures that help me.

1051
01:08:00,200 --> 01:08:03,300
Do what I what really needs to
be done or if the scriptures

1052
01:08:03,300 --> 01:08:06,600
become corrupted through the
Holy Spirit and myself and an

1053
01:08:06,600 --> 01:08:08,800
inspired be like Joseph Smith
doing it, you know, jury

1054
01:08:08,800 --> 01:08:14,600
translating things.
We can and we can recover the

1055
01:08:14,600 --> 01:08:21,399
truth, but this law of witnesses
is what separates Most real, I

1056
01:08:21,399 --> 01:08:23,500
mean, in other religions have
this as well, it may have the

1057
01:08:23,500 --> 01:08:25,300
very least there's two
tradition, right?

1058
01:08:25,300 --> 01:08:28,700
It's not just this guy saying it
all the sudden who just came out

1059
01:08:28,700 --> 01:08:32,700
of nowhere.
There is a tradition of belief

1060
01:08:33,100 --> 01:08:37,300
and in a tradition to survive,
there must be a certain amount

1061
01:08:37,300 --> 01:08:41,899
of of truth to it.
I believe otherwise if it's just

1062
01:08:41,899 --> 01:08:46,399
completely completely off the
wall radical no value.

1063
01:08:46,800 --> 01:08:49,500
Those things tend to tend to die
off over time are or get

1064
01:08:49,500 --> 01:08:53,800
reinvented but but for the, for
these things that we're the

1065
01:08:53,800 --> 01:08:56,700
danger, we're looking at here is
exactly the danger that is

1066
01:08:56,700 --> 01:09:01,000
warned about we are in the last
days and more than ever, we need

1067
01:09:01,700 --> 01:09:06,200
that personal Revelation.
We need to be able to get

1068
01:09:06,200 --> 01:09:10,700
answers personally about what we
need to do, and the answers are

1069
01:09:10,707 --> 01:09:13,000
going to be different.
I'm not going to get the same

1070
01:09:13,000 --> 01:09:15,800
answer.
You get Dave, I haven't right

1071
01:09:16,899 --> 01:09:19,500
where we're at.
We both have gone through

1072
01:09:19,500 --> 01:09:21,100
different experiences.
Our families are different.

1073
01:09:21,100 --> 01:09:23,600
They have different needs.
We have different, maybe things

1074
01:09:23,600 --> 01:09:29,100
that we need to do in our life's
calling, but there are still

1075
01:09:29,100 --> 01:09:33,899
fundamental Truth is out there
that we can come together that

1076
01:09:33,899 --> 01:09:38,200
we can come together on and we
can only do that because we have

1077
01:09:38,200 --> 01:09:43,300
the Holy Spirit correlating
those truths and if I didn't

1078
01:09:43,300 --> 01:09:45,899
have that Holy Spirit I wouldn't
be able to be here.

1079
01:09:46,300 --> 01:09:48,600
Talking to you about this.
You wouldn't have nailed it.

1080
01:09:48,600 --> 01:09:53,500
Then your podcast.
We need the Holy Spirit more

1081
01:09:53,500 --> 01:09:57,400
than ever.
And this is this is going to

1082
01:09:57,400 --> 01:10:01,200
darken their there's one more
thing to I guess that.

1083
01:10:01,300 --> 01:10:03,700
Joseph, Joseph Smith had
actually had something to say

1084
01:10:03,700 --> 01:10:06,100
about this as well.
We don't have full details, but

1085
01:10:06,100 --> 01:10:08,700
we have some of the minutes
present in.

1086
01:10:08,700 --> 01:10:14,900
This is from the 1842.
Upper the upper room with red

1087
01:10:14,900 --> 01:10:18,600
brick store at Wrigley Society
minutes, president Smith, rose

1088
01:10:18,600 --> 01:10:23,100
red, the 14th chapter of Ezekiel
said, the Lord had declared by

1089
01:10:23,100 --> 01:10:25,900
the prophet that the people
should each one stand for

1090
01:10:25,900 --> 01:10:30,600
himself and depend on no men or
men in that state of Corruption

1091
01:10:30,600 --> 01:10:33,400
of the Jewish.
Search that righteous persons

1092
01:10:33,400 --> 01:10:38,100
could only be Gluck, could only
deliver their own souls, and

1093
01:10:38,100 --> 01:10:38,900
that's key.
Right there.

1094
01:10:38,900 --> 01:10:41,100
Could only deliver their own
Souls.

1095
01:10:41,400 --> 01:10:46,800
A profit cannot save you, right?
He then applied it to the

1096
01:10:46,800 --> 01:10:48,600
present state of the Church of
Latter Day.

1097
01:10:48,600 --> 01:10:52,600
Saints and said, if the people
departed from the Lord, they

1098
01:10:52,600 --> 01:10:57,300
must fall that they were
depending on the prophet, hence,

1099
01:10:57,300 --> 01:11:01,000
were darkened in their minds
from neglect of themselves.

1100
01:11:01,400 --> 01:11:04,500
Envious toward the innocent
while they afflict a virtuous

1101
01:11:04,800 --> 01:11:08,900
with their shafts of Envy.
Joseph Smith said that the

1102
01:11:08,900 --> 01:11:11,500
memberships mind had become
darkened because they were

1103
01:11:11,500 --> 01:11:17,000
overly relying on him.
And he's not even, he's not even

1104
01:11:17,000 --> 01:11:21,800
getting bad Council, right?
He's actually getting real

1105
01:11:21,800 --> 01:11:25,100
Revelations and the denial Evil
Revelations.

1106
01:11:25,100 --> 01:11:28,500
So that that became true.
He was giving prophetic counsel

1107
01:11:28,500 --> 01:11:35,300
to people that saved lives.
And even in that state, he was

1108
01:11:35,300 --> 01:11:39,100
saying that the people's minds
that were darkened in their

1109
01:11:39,100 --> 01:11:44,200
minds from neglected themselves.
That is a serious problem.

1110
01:11:44,300 --> 01:11:48,000
When you delegate out the Light
of Christ to somebody else, it's

1111
01:11:48,000 --> 01:11:51,200
going to create a Darkness, it's
going to create a void within

1112
01:11:51,200 --> 01:11:59,600
you, and I just brothers and
sisters, please, we We need to

1113
01:11:59,600 --> 01:12:03,100
be able to come together.
We as even even the Christians

1114
01:12:03,200 --> 01:12:06,900
in this country, we all need to
be able to come together to face

1115
01:12:06,900 --> 01:12:11,100
this darkness and go ahead.
Sorry.

1116
01:12:11,100 --> 01:12:14,900
I don't mean to cut you off.
Well yeah, well I we need to be

1117
01:12:14,900 --> 01:12:16,900
able to come together and the
way that we're going to come

1118
01:12:16,900 --> 01:12:19,800
together as through the Holy
Spirit but we have to have it.

1119
01:12:19,800 --> 01:12:23,400
If we're going to do that we
have to have that spirit and I'm

1120
01:12:23,400 --> 01:12:28,100
afraid that that a talk like
this is is encouraging the exact

1121
01:12:28,100 --> 01:12:29,800
opposite.
It's going to drive the spirit

1122
01:12:29,800 --> 01:12:33,600
away.
When you mindlessly cult is SLI,

1123
01:12:34,100 --> 01:12:39,800
put your salvation in the hands
of the arm of Flesh fellow

1124
01:12:39,800 --> 01:12:43,800
mortal.
Yeah, Let me tell you the

1125
01:12:43,800 --> 01:12:47,300
dangers.
I see in this in, this is from a

1126
01:12:47,300 --> 01:12:53,700
largely losing, the gospel kind
of perspective. if we go back,

1127
01:12:55,000 --> 01:12:59,700
Just over 100 years ago now.
It was the birth of the

1128
01:12:59,700 --> 01:13:02,000
Progressive Era with, in
America.

1129
01:13:03,200 --> 01:13:07,200
And there was this idea that we
would progress past the

1130
01:13:07,200 --> 01:13:10,700
Constitution.
We would progress to a different

1131
01:13:10,700 --> 01:13:15,800
form of government what the
progressives weren't counting on

1132
01:13:15,800 --> 01:13:21,200
was just how fervently Americans
held to those founding

1133
01:13:21,200 --> 01:13:24,100
documents.
And to those founding fathers

1134
01:13:25,200 --> 01:13:29,700
they held to them rabidly And so
they understood that it would

1135
01:13:29,700 --> 01:13:34,700
have to be done in incremental
changes and they understood that

1136
01:13:34,700 --> 01:13:37,400
the generation that was clinging
to.

1137
01:13:37,400 --> 01:13:41,700
Those things weren't weren't
going to be willing to progress

1138
01:13:41,900 --> 01:13:47,300
past that so they focused on the
Next Generation and so through

1139
01:13:47,300 --> 01:13:54,800
education Academia, they have
this idea if we can separate.

1140
01:13:56,400 --> 01:14:00,400
The founders, if we can,
discredit the founders, we can

1141
01:14:00,400 --> 01:14:06,600
discredit the Constitution.
This is the birth of this idea

1142
01:14:06,600 --> 01:14:09,900
that the, the founders were
nothing more than rich white

1143
01:14:09,900 --> 01:14:14,100
slave owners, they, discredit
the founder and then you can

1144
01:14:14,100 --> 01:14:20,200
discredit the document, okay?
And, and now how the how the

1145
01:14:20,200 --> 01:14:26,200
government runs that has been
unfortunately wildly successful,

1146
01:14:27,100 --> 01:14:33,200
if we look at where we are now,
That plan has been been wildly

1147
01:14:33,200 --> 01:14:40,300
successful.
When an organization, a society

1148
01:14:41,600 --> 01:14:48,500
begins to discredit the founders
or ignore the founders.

1149
01:14:50,800 --> 01:14:55,200
Of a movement, an organization,
a government.

1150
01:14:55,900 --> 01:15:00,100
Well, now, you can do all sorts
of things that you couldn't do

1151
01:15:00,100 --> 01:15:06,200
before.
You can begin to change, how

1152
01:15:06,200 --> 01:15:11,900
things are ran, how things are
taught, what things mean today.

1153
01:15:12,400 --> 01:15:16,600
And you're opening the door for
1984 to becoming reality lutely.

1154
01:15:16,700 --> 01:15:19,200
Absolutely.
And like it or not, we've had a

1155
01:15:19,208 --> 01:15:22,000
bit of 1984.
Within the LDS church, I was

1156
01:15:22,000 --> 01:15:25,000
still a member when Russell
named Nelson came out and said,

1157
01:15:27,900 --> 01:15:32,600
let's back up just a year or so.
Before Russell him Nelson, made

1158
01:15:32,600 --> 01:15:35,800
that statement.
You have the, I'm a Mormon

1159
01:15:35,800 --> 01:15:42,100
campaign, you had more man.org,
you had all of those things.

1160
01:15:43,300 --> 01:15:46,100
Fast forward, just a couple
years.

1161
01:15:47,400 --> 01:15:52,700
A couple years tops, Justin.
And it turns into every time you

1162
01:15:52,700 --> 01:15:56,900
use the word Mormon, it's a
victory for Satan, his words,

1163
01:15:56,900 --> 01:16:00,400
not pop a dies.
Yeah, yeah, exactly.

1164
01:16:00,900 --> 01:16:09,500
So that sounds a lot to me like
orwellian 1984 Newspeak, right?

1165
01:16:09,600 --> 01:16:13,200
And so, yeah, 84 and I don't
think that's far off from this

1166
01:16:13,200 --> 01:16:20,800
scenario, but If you can,
discredit the founders, you can.

1167
01:16:20,800 --> 01:16:25,700
Now take this church in any
direction you desire.

1168
01:16:26,000 --> 01:16:29,900
Maybe 132 finally does go away,
right?

1169
01:16:29,900 --> 01:16:32,600
Maybe section 132 of the
Doctrine and Covenants does go

1170
01:16:32,600 --> 01:16:34,900
away.
You know what, this was an

1171
01:16:34,900 --> 01:16:38,800
error, we know this was an error
because all the additives going

1172
01:16:38,800 --> 01:16:41,700
that way, right?
I mean originally, it was we're

1173
01:16:41,700 --> 01:16:44,400
just going to trick the
government then it became, well,

1174
01:16:44,400 --> 01:16:46,400
no.
We need to live this but this is

1175
01:16:46,400 --> 01:16:48,400
still a true principle.
Maybe we'll come back To it.

1176
01:16:48,400 --> 01:16:52,200
Someday the chain, the recent
changes in the temple are pretty

1177
01:16:52,200 --> 01:16:54,000
clear that?
No, they're not.

1178
01:16:54,300 --> 01:16:56,500
This is not something we're
going that they intend to ever

1179
01:16:56,500 --> 01:17:00,200
go back to they are right
already based off the changes in

1180
01:17:00,200 --> 01:17:03,900
the temple the attitude and
perspective of celestial

1181
01:17:03,900 --> 01:17:07,600
marriage has already been
dragged through the mud at this

1182
01:17:07,600 --> 01:17:12,300
point and it's just a hair
breath away from being

1183
01:17:12,300 --> 01:17:17,600
villainized and it was wrong.
I really do think we're going to

1184
01:17:17,600 --> 01:17:20,700
look back.
Look this talk in 10 years and

1185
01:17:20,700 --> 01:17:25,200
realize this was a clear
declaration and they were there

1186
01:17:25,200 --> 01:17:29,100
have been others along the way.
Go back to when Russell and

1187
01:17:29,100 --> 01:17:31,300
Nelson.
Not this previous conference

1188
01:17:31,300 --> 01:17:33,300
where Elder that, we're talking
about now.

1189
01:17:33,300 --> 01:17:37,500
But the one before it, I believe
Russell, let Nelson makes the

1190
01:17:37,500 --> 01:17:43,900
comment of the endowment has
changed and it will continue to

1191
01:17:43,900 --> 01:17:45,700
change.
Okay.

1192
01:17:46,300 --> 01:17:50,700
Now just Put that statement up
against the statement from

1193
01:17:50,700 --> 01:17:57,800
Joseph Smith that says, the
ordinances were revealed by Adam

1194
01:17:57,800 --> 01:18:03,100
and are not to be altered.
Period.

1195
01:18:03,400 --> 01:18:06,600
That was it.
Look at those two statements.

1196
01:18:06,700 --> 01:18:11,500
Somebody has to be wrong.
Somebody has to be wrong.

1197
01:18:11,700 --> 01:18:15,500
Those two statements are
diametrically opposed.

1198
01:18:16,700 --> 01:18:21,800
Now Russell, I'm Nelson went on
to say well we know that Joseph

1199
01:18:21,800 --> 01:18:25,700
gave Brigham some latitude and
quote systematizing and

1200
01:18:25,700 --> 01:18:29,700
organizing the endowment.
Sure, but the covenants and

1201
01:18:30,900 --> 01:18:34,000
that's a hell of a lot different
than saying, we're going to get

1202
01:18:34,000 --> 01:18:36,500
rid of certain covenants.
We're going to do certain things

1203
01:18:36,500 --> 01:18:40,500
differently.
Imagine being the last woman, in

1204
01:18:40,500 --> 01:18:43,900
the LDS church who covet into to
obey her husband.

1205
01:18:44,900 --> 01:18:49,500
Poor girl.
I mean, you know, one day later

1206
01:18:49,700 --> 01:18:52,200
and she would have been is you
have been seeing clear that

1207
01:18:52,200 --> 01:18:54,700
right?
I mean how do you reconcile that

1208
01:18:54,700 --> 01:18:58,700
even even right now in the
church who's under Covenant to,

1209
01:18:58,700 --> 01:19:03,800
what You're exactly right.
So if this is better, right?

1210
01:19:03,800 --> 01:19:09,500
If this new endowment is better,
and it really is more correct

1211
01:19:09,800 --> 01:19:11,800
than are you going to go back
and redo?

1212
01:19:11,800 --> 01:19:14,700
Everybody's endowments that took
it out the old way and then are

1213
01:19:14,700 --> 01:19:16,900
you going to go back and you're
going to redo all those

1214
01:19:16,900 --> 01:19:21,000
vicarious names?
To correct it because that's

1215
01:19:21,000 --> 01:19:23,900
really what you're saying here.
And that's a big difference.

1216
01:19:24,300 --> 01:19:30,200
Yeah I mean covenanting to obey
her husband or not is a huge

1217
01:19:30,300 --> 01:19:34,000
that's changing the fundamental
organization of family just as

1218
01:19:34,000 --> 01:19:40,900
much as saying Two Dads or two
moms and I'll go a step further.

1219
01:19:41,800 --> 01:19:45,300
You're trying to change the
order in which God governs the

1220
01:19:45,300 --> 01:19:49,700
universe Right.
Yeah, this is closer to

1221
01:19:49,700 --> 01:19:56,100
transgenderism, right?
And so so again Look at Nelson

1222
01:19:56,100 --> 01:19:59,300
statement.
Look at Joseph statements, whose

1223
01:19:59,300 --> 01:20:01,500
right?
And who are you going to go

1224
01:20:01,500 --> 01:20:04,100
with?
That's the question.

1225
01:20:05,300 --> 01:20:10,700
And and I haven't been this bold
about this subject on here

1226
01:20:11,500 --> 01:20:17,400
intentionally, but I feel like
the time has come if you're in

1227
01:20:17,400 --> 01:20:21,700
the LDS church and you sense,
something is wrong, you're

1228
01:20:21,700 --> 01:20:24,400
right.
Something is very, very wrong.

1229
01:20:25,200 --> 01:20:33,000
You're not alone in that. your I
get you have a lot to lose, but

1230
01:20:33,000 --> 01:20:36,000
you also have a lot to lose in
the other direction as well, if

1231
01:20:36,000 --> 01:20:42,900
you stay silent on this, I think
it's time that if you're a

1232
01:20:42,900 --> 01:20:45,500
member of the LDS church and you
don't feel like it's your time

1233
01:20:45,500 --> 01:20:50,100
to leave, you may have to become
a conscientious objector, you

1234
01:20:50,100 --> 01:20:53,600
may have to push back and that's
a lonely place to be and I get

1235
01:20:53,600 --> 01:20:57,000
that.
But something is wrong.

1236
01:20:57,100 --> 01:20:59,700
I wanted that, I want to go back
to the vaccine here for a

1237
01:20:59,708 --> 01:21:02,600
second.
Again, this is something I

1238
01:21:02,600 --> 01:21:06,000
haven't brought up before.
I have the video, I have the

1239
01:21:06,000 --> 01:21:08,700
Audio.
I will post it in this show

1240
01:21:08,700 --> 01:21:12,300
notes episode in the episode
notes.

1241
01:21:14,000 --> 01:21:18,600
In 2020.
Maybe it was 20 21, I can't

1242
01:21:18,600 --> 01:21:26,800
remember, but David, A Bednar
spoke at the G20 and while at

1243
01:21:26,800 --> 01:21:30,400
the G20, he said, and I'm
paraphrasing.

1244
01:21:30,400 --> 01:21:36,500
But I will post the video.
He said, Churches and religion

1245
01:21:36,500 --> 01:21:39,900
can be a strong.
Can be a strong partner to

1246
01:21:39,900 --> 01:21:43,600
governments of the world.
When a vaccine comes out, there

1247
01:21:43,600 --> 01:21:48,300
will be hesitation.
We Stand ready to do our part.

1248
01:21:49,400 --> 01:21:53,300
To help communicate the correct
message.

1249
01:21:54,800 --> 01:21:58,100
What Bednar is saying there is
that will carry the water for

1250
01:21:58,100 --> 01:22:01,500
you on this but we want a seat
at the table.

1251
01:22:01,800 --> 01:22:06,700
Make no mistake.
Everything that's happening.

1252
01:22:06,700 --> 01:22:10,300
Now that you feel is wrong,
right?

1253
01:22:10,300 --> 01:22:14,700
And we all feel it, if you're a
disciple of Christ, you know,

1254
01:22:15,100 --> 01:22:18,800
something is wrong, whether
you're going to the LDS church,

1255
01:22:18,900 --> 01:22:22,400
whether you're a independent
fundamentalist, whether you're a

1256
01:22:23,200 --> 01:22:28,200
fundamentalist Who belongs to a
group, whether you are just a

1257
01:22:28,900 --> 01:22:32,700
Christian, you know, something
is wrong, look around, it's not

1258
01:22:32,700 --> 01:22:36,700
hard to see.
There is a fundamental

1259
01:22:36,700 --> 01:22:39,900
transformation coming to the
world.

1260
01:22:40,400 --> 01:22:45,200
There is a new table being set
and I really feel I truly

1261
01:22:45,200 --> 01:22:49,700
believe the LDS church wants a
seat at that new table.

1262
01:22:50,900 --> 01:22:55,100
And they're doing everything
they can to obscene to obtain

1263
01:22:55,100 --> 01:22:58,200
that seat and that's going to be
there.

1264
01:22:59,800 --> 01:23:03,800
But in order to have to obtain
that seat at this new table,

1265
01:23:04,300 --> 01:23:08,600
they're going to have to disavow
certain practices that were

1266
01:23:08,600 --> 01:23:12,800
historically.
Mormon, this talk will go down

1267
01:23:12,800 --> 01:23:18,800
in history as the time when the
LDS church, made it known to all

1268
01:23:18,800 --> 01:23:23,100
the world that we are done with
Joseph Smith that we are done

1269
01:23:23,100 --> 01:23:25,600
with Brigham Young.
We are done with plural

1270
01:23:25,600 --> 01:23:28,400
marriage.
We are done with anything that

1271
01:23:28,400 --> 01:23:31,500
was considered.
Third uniquely Mormon.

1272
01:23:31,500 --> 01:23:34,400
We are moving into a new phase
within this church.

1273
01:23:36,700 --> 01:23:41,500
Yeah, and you better accept it,
you better accept it or you and

1274
01:23:41,500 --> 01:23:44,900
your children's salvation are at
stake and here's the thing to a

1275
01:23:44,907 --> 01:23:49,500
nice.
What so what should be done?

1276
01:23:49,700 --> 01:23:51,800
What can you what can you do
about this?

1277
01:23:52,100 --> 01:23:55,300
If you feel that being in the
church, still is your place.

1278
01:23:55,300 --> 01:23:58,000
I get that.
I, I have faith that there are

1279
01:23:58,000 --> 01:24:02,300
many who are called to minister
still within the LDS church.

1280
01:24:02,300 --> 01:24:05,300
That, that is where the Lord
wants them to be and that could

1281
01:24:05,300 --> 01:24:07,600
be you.
But what do you do?

1282
01:24:08,400 --> 01:24:11,800
Well, what you don't do is you
don't, you don't follow this

1283
01:24:11,800 --> 01:24:15,000
talk, you don't apply this.
You do.

1284
01:24:17,200 --> 01:24:19,400
When it comes to what were those
things.

1285
01:24:19,400 --> 01:24:27,200
Those little you do Implement
small deviations, you do quietly

1286
01:24:27,200 --> 01:24:30,200
neglect.
Maybe you do have whispered

1287
01:24:30,200 --> 01:24:33,400
criticisms as inspired by the
spirit.

1288
01:24:34,000 --> 01:24:38,100
You've got to have that Spirit
though and that's what I feel.

1289
01:24:38,100 --> 01:24:40,800
Is just so important and
fundamental here.

1290
01:24:42,000 --> 01:24:45,400
And so I'm going to ask you, I'm
gonna ask you this Dave, what do

1291
01:24:45,400 --> 01:24:48,200
you think is if somebody's
listening to this right now and

1292
01:24:48,200 --> 01:24:53,500
they're saying okay yeah I see
this, I see this I agree, I'm

1293
01:24:53,500 --> 01:24:55,600
feeling conflicted.
What do I do?

1294
01:24:56,100 --> 01:25:01,900
What what what do I do then?
First, I would say this because

1295
01:25:01,900 --> 01:25:03,400
I've been there, you've been
there.

1296
01:25:04,700 --> 01:25:06,800
We both come out of the
mainstream church.

1297
01:25:07,600 --> 01:25:13,200
One, just breathe for a second.
Don't panic.

1298
01:25:13,700 --> 01:25:15,600
I know.
It feels like your whole world

1299
01:25:15,600 --> 01:25:27,600
is falling apart.
I know you have a ton of You,

1300
01:25:27,600 --> 01:25:32,100
you have a lot to lose, you have
family within the church, you

1301
01:25:32,100 --> 01:25:38,000
have your kids, I understand.
I'm going to get real personal

1302
01:25:38,000 --> 01:25:41,000
here for a second.
That's something that I try not

1303
01:25:41,000 --> 01:25:44,700
to do is ever make it about me.
I try to make this podcast about

1304
01:25:44,700 --> 01:25:47,600
my guests in about whatever
topic we're talking on.

1305
01:25:49,600 --> 01:25:59,100
But in the past few weeks, my
family and, and I would ask for

1306
01:25:59,108 --> 01:26:00,700
some prayers from the audience
here.

1307
01:26:03,200 --> 01:26:08,300
My family has been under
immense, emotional, duress.

1308
01:26:10,000 --> 01:26:13,300
We knew this would come.
We knew this would come from

1309
01:26:13,300 --> 01:26:18,600
what I was doing.
And my, my first wife Amber.

1310
01:26:19,400 --> 01:26:22,000
She is an absolute rock star of
a woman.

1311
01:26:22,800 --> 01:26:27,900
She is, I mean, Mike, who wives,
are everything I aspire to be

1312
01:26:27,900 --> 01:26:31,600
someday when I grow up, I really
believe that they are just

1313
01:26:31,600 --> 01:26:38,400
awesome. but, The first time I
live plural marriage.

1314
01:26:39,300 --> 01:26:43,900
Her family did know, something
was up and when that marriage

1315
01:26:43,900 --> 01:26:49,200
ended And it was just me and
Amber again, the rumor was the

1316
01:26:49,200 --> 01:26:52,300
desire.
I was having an affair with the

1317
01:26:52,300 --> 01:26:56,800
woman that was my second wife.
I said just let him think that

1318
01:26:56,800 --> 01:26:58,700
because it's going to keep the
heat off of you.

1319
01:26:59,500 --> 01:27:01,700
I, you know what, they didn't
like me from the beginning.

1320
01:27:01,700 --> 01:27:03,100
They're not going to like me
now.

1321
01:27:03,400 --> 01:27:06,600
It's fine.
Just just let him think that

1322
01:27:08,000 --> 01:27:11,000
I've got big broad shoulders.
I can handle this.

1323
01:27:13,400 --> 01:27:20,300
Fast forward a decade and I am
throwing my voice out to the

1324
01:27:20,300 --> 01:27:21,400
world.
Telling them, I'm a

1325
01:27:21,407 --> 01:27:25,100
fundamentalist.
I'm very open with my audience,

1326
01:27:25,300 --> 01:27:28,200
you know, I got remarried just
bad.

1327
01:27:28,200 --> 01:27:31,700
I shouldn't say remarried.
I got married again back in

1328
01:27:32,100 --> 01:27:34,100
February.
Someone practicing

1329
01:27:34,100 --> 01:27:37,700
fundamentalist.
Now and my wife Amber.

1330
01:27:37,700 --> 01:27:41,200
My first wife, she felt like
it's time to let her voice be

1331
01:27:41,200 --> 01:27:43,000
known to.
So she wrote a blog post.

1332
01:27:43,100 --> 01:27:52,200
Post for a very well-known,
polygamous blah, blah guy think

1333
01:27:52,200 --> 01:27:53,900
it's called speaking of
polygamy.

1334
01:27:55,500 --> 01:27:59,100
And she wrote an article, and
then she did something that

1335
01:27:59,100 --> 01:28:01,800
really surprised me because when
I first started this podcast, my

1336
01:28:01,800 --> 01:28:04,700
wife said, don't you dare even
think about getting me on the

1337
01:28:04,700 --> 01:28:09,200
podcast ever, you know, I don't
need that.

1338
01:28:09,500 --> 01:28:12,500
Well, she went ahead and took
that blog and then posted it on

1339
01:28:12,500 --> 01:28:16,400
her Facebook page knowing that
her mom and her sisters would

1340
01:28:16,400 --> 01:28:22,700
see.
And, and this comes out of the

1341
01:28:22,700 --> 01:28:27,200
fact of My mother-in-law had
figured out what was going on?

1342
01:28:28,600 --> 01:28:34,200
And it's been tough, it's been
tough.

1343
01:28:34,200 --> 01:28:39,500
The blowback has been immense.
So I understand, I shouldn't

1344
01:28:39,500 --> 01:28:42,200
say, I understand, I just see
what my wife's going through.

1345
01:28:42,200 --> 01:28:45,800
I haven't had to deal with that
sort of stuff, because to be

1346
01:28:45,800 --> 01:28:49,700
honest with you, when I became a
polygamist, my family who aren't

1347
01:28:49,700 --> 01:28:52,300
Mormons weren't shocked, they
were like, well, yeah, that's

1348
01:28:52,300 --> 01:28:58,200
what Mormons do.
But for my wife's family, who is

1349
01:28:58,300 --> 01:29:02,300
Devoutly ALDS.
It's, it's been huge.

1350
01:29:02,300 --> 01:29:06,900
So I understand to those who see
something is wrong, you have a

1351
01:29:06,900 --> 01:29:09,200
lot to lose and I'm not saying
go live plural marriage.

1352
01:29:09,200 --> 01:29:13,600
That's not what I'm saying, but
I understand the, the blowback

1353
01:29:13,600 --> 01:29:19,100
that happens when you begin to
criticize the leadership of the

1354
01:29:19,100 --> 01:29:20,900
LDS church.
I understand.

1355
01:29:21,000 --> 01:29:23,300
I get it.
You have a lot to lose.

1356
01:29:23,800 --> 01:29:28,600
So first just breathe,
understand it feels like the

1357
01:29:28,600 --> 01:29:33,800
world is coming apart.
But it's not your just now

1358
01:29:33,800 --> 01:29:40,900
beginning to look and to see s,
it will be rough.

1359
01:29:41,100 --> 01:29:43,300
I'm not going to lie to you.
There's going to be a little bit

1360
01:29:43,300 --> 01:29:47,300
of an adjustment period where
you get some blowback for

1361
01:29:47,300 --> 01:29:51,600
criticizing the church.
Third, pray, like you've never

1362
01:29:51,600 --> 01:29:56,500
prayed before your knees.
Anytime you feel the weight of

1363
01:29:56,508 --> 01:30:01,200
the darkness beginning to Heap
upon your shoulders and unload?

1364
01:30:01,300 --> 01:30:05,700
That burden seek Solace from
your father in Heaven, seek

1365
01:30:05,700 --> 01:30:07,500
advice from your father in
Heaven.

1366
01:30:08,100 --> 01:30:12,800
And then fourth, this is why
I've had this is why I did the

1367
01:30:12,800 --> 01:30:16,800
podcast because I felt this
coming.

1368
01:30:17,800 --> 01:30:20,800
This is why I had so many
different people from.

1369
01:30:20,800 --> 01:30:24,700
So many different expressions of
the restoration on here.

1370
01:30:26,900 --> 01:30:31,000
Talk to people talk to people.
And this new website that I

1371
01:30:31,008 --> 01:30:36,300
talked about, it's going to have
a feature where you can get in

1372
01:30:36,400 --> 01:30:40,900
and just chat with other people
and get some perspective.

1373
01:30:41,600 --> 01:30:44,200
I'm trying to set something up.
Now for this.

1374
01:30:46,100 --> 01:30:51,300
Excuse me.
Um, I feel the so deeply reach

1375
01:30:51,300 --> 01:30:55,100
out there.
Those I will help you.

1376
01:30:55,100 --> 01:30:58,100
If I can't help you, I will
point you to Justin's Direction.

1377
01:30:58,100 --> 01:31:00,900
He's way smarter than I am.
He's a better speaker.

1378
01:31:01,300 --> 01:31:05,300
So, not even there's, there's
other people you can talk to.

1379
01:31:05,300 --> 01:31:08,200
I will help.
I will personally help you find

1380
01:31:08,300 --> 01:31:12,500
someone to talk to.
Know that you're not alone, it's

1381
01:31:12,500 --> 01:31:14,500
going to feel like you're alone.
You're not alone.

1382
01:31:14,800 --> 01:31:19,600
You're not alone ever.
So that that would be.

1383
01:31:19,600 --> 01:31:23,300
My advice is just breathe.
Do not throw the baby out with

1384
01:31:23,300 --> 01:31:27,800
the bathwater just because you
might feel like the church is

1385
01:31:28,500 --> 01:31:30,500
not doing what you think it
should be doing.

1386
01:31:30,500 --> 01:31:32,900
If it's following the gospel
doesn't mean the gospels.

1387
01:31:32,900 --> 01:31:36,300
Not true.
It's not the only purveyor of

1388
01:31:36,300 --> 01:31:42,400
gospel truth.
Get close to your god, get close

1389
01:31:42,400 --> 01:31:45,800
to your family, that would be my
recommendations.

1390
01:31:47,800 --> 01:31:50,400
I like something like that to
add to that if you don't mind,

1391
01:31:50,700 --> 01:31:54,000
please do from from my personal
experience.

1392
01:31:54,800 --> 01:31:57,700
Don't get bitter, don't get
better.

1393
01:31:57,800 --> 01:32:02,500
Remember Christ admonition for
us to forgive it, is it can also

1394
01:32:02,500 --> 01:32:09,600
become very easy to take this
darkness that you're seeing and

1395
01:32:09,600 --> 01:32:14,400
pull it into yourself and that's
not the right way.

1396
01:32:14,600 --> 01:32:17,000
That isn't, that's its
destructive.

1397
01:32:17,600 --> 01:32:25,300
I struggled with that when I
first came out and it doesn't

1398
01:32:25,300 --> 01:32:30,300
have to be that way.
You can find peace in your

1399
01:32:30,300 --> 01:32:33,700
savior and then God in your
family.

1400
01:32:36,300 --> 01:32:41,300
But don't poison it with the
bitterness just please, you

1401
01:32:41,300 --> 01:32:43,500
know.
And here's the thing, I think

1402
01:32:43,500 --> 01:32:46,700
it's important to say that
you're going to feel mad, right?

1403
01:32:46,700 --> 01:32:48,500
You're going to feel like yes,
you're going to, you're going to

1404
01:32:48,500 --> 01:32:51,000
feel mad.
And you feel that disappointment

1405
01:32:51,000 --> 01:32:54,100
you are, it's going to happen.
But you've got to find a way to

1406
01:32:54,100 --> 01:32:56,400
let it go.
Don't you hold on to it?

1407
01:32:56,500 --> 01:32:58,900
You have to access the
atonement.

1408
01:32:59,500 --> 01:33:07,600
You have to now hit your knees.
and, and let the atonement work

1409
01:33:07,600 --> 01:33:12,400
in your life and let that go
just let, let all the anger, let

1410
01:33:12,400 --> 01:33:16,700
all the disappointment.
Let that just go focus on what

1411
01:33:16,700 --> 01:33:19,500
you need to do.
I would say this, if you decide

1412
01:33:19,500 --> 01:33:22,600
to stay in the LDS church,
that's great.

1413
01:33:23,000 --> 01:33:25,100
If that's what the Lord has
commanded you to do.

1414
01:33:25,700 --> 01:33:30,700
Perfect seek out.
Good traditional LDS folks that

1415
01:33:30,700 --> 01:33:34,200
you can hang out with.
Look at Hannah Stoddard, look at

1416
01:33:34,200 --> 01:33:37,200
Kimberly's.
Lee Watson Smith, look at those

1417
01:33:37,500 --> 01:33:40,600
those folks there, they can
provide some Solace if you're

1418
01:33:40,600 --> 01:33:43,000
going to be within the LDS
church because I feel like their

1419
01:33:43,000 --> 01:33:44,900
message is still true to the
gospel.

1420
01:33:46,800 --> 01:33:52,100
But seek seek like-minded people
out that's going to be important

1421
01:33:52,100 --> 01:33:54,500
as well.
And I'm doing everything in my

1422
01:33:54,500 --> 01:33:58,100
power to bring you a tool that
can help you do that.

1423
01:34:00,300 --> 01:34:04,000
One week and a half, two weeks
tops, that bad boy should be up

1424
01:34:04,000 --> 01:34:11,500
and running.
All right.

1425
01:34:11,500 --> 01:34:17,000
Well, I feel maybe to share
something.

1426
01:34:17,500 --> 01:34:20,800
If you don't mind please.
This is a this is a an

1427
01:34:20,800 --> 01:34:24,100
experience from my mission and I
might have shared it before even

1428
01:34:24,200 --> 01:34:26,600
on this podcast but I think it's
really relevant right now.

1429
01:34:27,400 --> 01:34:31,100
I served I served a mission for
the LDS church in Busan, Korea

1430
01:34:31,100 --> 01:34:35,600
Mission and my mission
president, president Slover was

1431
01:34:35,600 --> 01:34:41,800
a second-generation Mission
president in Korea and one of

1432
01:34:41,808 --> 01:34:44,700
the earliest his father's on the
first missionaries in.

1433
01:34:44,800 --> 01:34:49,900
Ria and very long, family,
tradition and connection even

1434
01:34:49,900 --> 01:34:52,900
though they were, they were
Mormons from Utah or Colorado

1435
01:34:54,200 --> 01:35:00,000
and my mission president was was
such an inspiration to me and I

1436
01:35:00,000 --> 01:35:03,600
cared for him very deeply and he
taught us something very

1437
01:35:03,600 --> 01:35:06,600
important to on our mission,
which was don't baptize

1438
01:35:06,600 --> 01:35:09,600
children.
Do not baptize children, he

1439
01:35:09,600 --> 01:35:13,700
explained why?
Because it's so easy to find

1440
01:35:13,700 --> 01:35:17,400
eight, nine ten year old kids
who've never seen a white

1441
01:35:17,900 --> 01:35:21,300
American before.
Who would love to spend time

1442
01:35:21,300 --> 01:35:25,000
with you for any reason
including hearing hearing the

1443
01:35:25,000 --> 01:35:28,300
gospel and they will be your
friend and they will come to

1444
01:35:28,300 --> 01:35:31,400
church.
And then you're going to go to a

1445
01:35:31,407 --> 01:35:34,600
new area and they're never going
to see that church.

1446
01:35:34,600 --> 01:35:38,100
Again there's cases where Elders
would teach people.

1447
01:35:38,200 --> 01:35:42,400
All the gospel discussions, go
to bat and they could be

1448
01:35:42,400 --> 01:35:44,900
converted as adult.
And it go to baptize them.

1449
01:35:44,900 --> 01:35:47,900
They find out they were already
baptized and they didn't even

1450
01:35:47,900 --> 01:35:50,800
remember themselves.
I think it was just an

1451
01:35:50,800 --> 01:35:54,800
experience with kids that whole
baseball baptism thing down

1452
01:35:54,800 --> 01:35:57,500
there, right?
Yeah.

1453
01:35:57,500 --> 01:36:02,700
So it's English class these
days, and it's so easy to

1454
01:36:03,500 --> 01:36:06,900
install our mission.
President says, don't the church

1455
01:36:06,900 --> 01:36:11,100
needs.
Ali's priesthood leaders mothers

1456
01:36:11,900 --> 01:36:14,400
and their children.
Not just the children.

1457
01:36:15,200 --> 01:36:19,200
Don't baptize children.
Find the families and that was

1458
01:36:19,200 --> 01:36:22,500
drilled into us.
Well, at the end of my mission.

1459
01:36:22,500 --> 01:36:27,600
I was so the Korea Mission, the
pre and post our mission was

1460
01:36:27,600 --> 01:36:31,300
lopsided.
There are some historical event

1461
01:36:31,300 --> 01:36:33,800
that caused a delay in
missionaries meal to go in.

1462
01:36:34,600 --> 01:36:38,600
And so at any point in time
within the mission, They might

1463
01:36:38,600 --> 01:36:41,800
have a fixed number of
missionaries, but how old or

1464
01:36:41,800 --> 01:36:44,700
young those missionaries are,
would fluctuate and there'd be

1465
01:36:44,700 --> 01:36:49,000
one point where there's almost
almost everybody's fresh in the

1466
01:36:49,000 --> 01:36:50,700
mission.
And then you'll have periods

1467
01:36:50,700 --> 01:36:53,300
where everybody's been there
forever and everybody's old and

1468
01:36:53,300 --> 01:36:55,900
cankerous?
You know, experience maybe.

1469
01:36:56,500 --> 01:37:02,400
Well, I'm in this wave where I'm
at the end of my mission and I'm

1470
01:37:02,400 --> 01:37:04,300
experienced I can speak the
language.

1471
01:37:04,300 --> 01:37:09,100
Finally barely enough to
actually communicate And there's

1472
01:37:09,100 --> 01:37:13,800
and there's only like 20 of us.
Everybody else is just fresh

1473
01:37:13,800 --> 01:37:20,500
from the MTC and in the midst of
that President Slover goes home.

1474
01:37:20,500 --> 01:37:23,500
And we get a new Mission.
President our new Mission

1475
01:37:23,500 --> 01:37:27,700
president is Korean and it was
baptized as a child.

1476
01:37:27,800 --> 01:37:33,400
He was one of the very few that
held on through his childhood

1477
01:37:34,100 --> 01:37:39,300
and hey, came in like a raise
Raging Bull.

1478
01:37:40,600 --> 01:37:45,300
Ready to reform our mission and
focus on what matters finding

1479
01:37:45,300 --> 01:37:48,700
those kids.
Getting those kids baptized.

1480
01:37:49,400 --> 01:37:53,500
And we had these interviews with
our, with our new Mission

1481
01:37:53,500 --> 01:37:56,600
president and he was kind of, to
be honest.

1482
01:37:56,600 --> 01:38:00,600
He was gauging our loyalty to
his vision for the mission, and

1483
01:38:00,600 --> 01:38:03,700
I was very blunt with him and I
told him, no, I'm not really

1484
01:38:03,700 --> 01:38:05,600
interested in that.
I want to find families.

1485
01:38:05,600 --> 01:38:07,700
I believe that, that's the right
way to do this.

1486
01:38:07,700 --> 01:38:11,700
And, and he was telling me the
wonders of these different

1487
01:38:11,700 --> 01:38:15,200
programs, he had in mind English
class for kids English class for

1488
01:38:15,200 --> 01:38:19,400
for, for moms that have nothing
to.

1489
01:38:19,400 --> 01:38:23,500
To do during the day English
classes for these and all these

1490
01:38:23,700 --> 01:38:29,600
and I just I wasn't inspired.
Well lo and behold despite being

1491
01:38:29,600 --> 01:38:32,100
one of the few Elders on the
mission that could actually even

1492
01:38:32,100 --> 01:38:36,000
speak Korean.
I quickly found myself no longer

1493
01:38:36,000 --> 01:38:41,700
a district leader and cast to
the far edge of the mission.

1494
01:38:42,300 --> 01:38:45,800
The outer Darkness far away the
outer door about as far away

1495
01:38:45,800 --> 01:38:51,200
from anybody else as I could
possibly get Everybody in my, he

1496
01:38:51,208 --> 01:38:54,900
called on me, but everybody in
my hood, come out with me.

1497
01:38:55,000 --> 01:38:56,600
If that's who was in the MTC
with me.

1498
01:38:56,600 --> 01:39:03,100
When I came out there, all APS
and Zone leaders and, and, or at

1499
01:39:03,100 --> 01:39:06,300
the very least District leaders
because there is such a need for

1500
01:39:06,300 --> 01:39:10,600
experience.
And here I am off by myself and

1501
01:39:10,700 --> 01:39:14,400
I even had a younger Zone leader
of quite a bit younger Zone

1502
01:39:14,400 --> 01:39:18,500
leader, who was, who was a lot
less experienced and and

1503
01:39:18,500 --> 01:39:20,800
everybody I Realize this good
old thankfully.

1504
01:39:20,800 --> 01:39:23,600
I was far enough away from the
politics in that art of Darkness

1505
01:39:23,600 --> 01:39:25,500
where I needed to be.
If I wasn't, it would have

1506
01:39:25,500 --> 01:39:29,000
killed me.
I will have gone insane because

1507
01:39:29,300 --> 01:39:31,800
I came to find out.
Everybody was talking about me,

1508
01:39:32,100 --> 01:39:35,600
everybody else, basically bowed
the knee and and was well

1509
01:39:35,600 --> 01:39:41,900
rewarded for it.
And I wasn't, but something

1510
01:39:41,900 --> 01:39:44,400
happened.
I was given a greeny.

1511
01:39:44,800 --> 01:39:50,300
They kind of had to, because
they all The missionaries coming

1512
01:39:50,300 --> 01:39:52,300
in and they need to pair them
with.

1513
01:39:52,300 --> 01:39:54,600
You can't just have to
missionaries in a foreign

1514
01:39:54,600 --> 01:39:57,700
country that don't know how to
operate, can't even function in

1515
01:39:57,700 --> 01:39:58,500
the country.
Right?

1516
01:39:58,500 --> 01:40:02,100
And so they kind of had to put
me with, with a new missionary

1517
01:40:02,100 --> 01:40:05,700
who was just coming in.
And I just thought, he doesn't

1518
01:40:05,700 --> 01:40:10,600
know present Slover.
He doesn't know any of what, I

1519
01:40:10,600 --> 01:40:12,500
know.
He's all he's going to know this

1520
01:40:12,500 --> 01:40:14,200
Mission president for his whole
mission.

1521
01:40:14,200 --> 01:40:17,900
That's all he's going to have.
And I started requesting the

1522
01:40:17,900 --> 01:40:20,900
morality of my decision.
I started second-guessing

1523
01:40:21,200 --> 01:40:25,300
whether it was right for me to
rebel against my priesthood

1524
01:40:25,300 --> 01:40:29,400
Authority in the in this, in the
quiet, you know?

1525
01:40:29,600 --> 01:40:33,200
And in the ways as we talked
about here quite neglect, small

1526
01:40:33,200 --> 01:40:37,200
deviations whisper criticisms
within my own heart.

1527
01:40:37,300 --> 01:40:39,500
But I was concerned about
whispered criticisms to this,

1528
01:40:39,500 --> 01:40:44,100
this young Elder who wasn't
going to do anything else, and I

1529
01:40:44,200 --> 01:40:47,900
started, I decided to sincerely,
pray and take it for God and I

1530
01:40:47,900 --> 01:40:50,400
needed if I needed to I Really
Need to know what the right

1531
01:40:50,400 --> 01:40:53,700
thing here is because I'm I mean
I know what the right thing is,

1532
01:40:53,700 --> 01:40:55,800
but all of a sudden I'm
questioning what is the right

1533
01:40:55,800 --> 01:40:58,900
thing for me to do, given this
change in context.

1534
01:40:59,800 --> 01:41:02,700
I started thinking maybe there's
a possibility that I do need to

1535
01:41:02,700 --> 01:41:05,400
get with this program for his
sake at the very least, if

1536
01:41:05,400 --> 01:41:09,500
nothing else.
And I took it to the Lord and

1537
01:41:10,300 --> 01:41:15,400
the Lord.
Reconfirmed Reconfirmed most of

1538
01:41:15,400 --> 01:41:20,300
my convictions, but there was
one area where he said, no adopt

1539
01:41:20,300 --> 01:41:23,500
that program start doing that.
And it was this odd, you my

1540
01:41:23,500 --> 01:41:29,400
English or they was the the
married kind of married woman

1541
01:41:29,400 --> 01:41:33,300
who's older and kids are kind of
grown up, maybe and doing

1542
01:41:33,300 --> 01:41:38,700
English for them.
And I was like, okay And I was

1543
01:41:38,700 --> 01:41:41,800
also told to, you know, not to
share any of those other

1544
01:41:41,800 --> 01:41:44,100
concerns concerns with my
companion.

1545
01:41:44,100 --> 01:41:49,200
Don't don't do wrong things.
But but but don't put that on

1546
01:41:49,200 --> 01:41:52,300
him instead just show him the
right way to do the mission at

1547
01:41:52,300 --> 01:41:53,800
work.
So we worked our butts off.

1548
01:41:54,400 --> 01:41:58,700
We worked our butts off, and we
started teaching, like, nobody

1549
01:41:58,700 --> 01:42:00,900
had ever taught before, and I'm
not saying this.

1550
01:42:01,000 --> 01:42:02,600
It's not me.
It wasn't me.

1551
01:42:02,800 --> 01:42:06,500
It was the Lord, right?
I don't take credit for this,

1552
01:42:06,500 --> 01:42:11,700
but We would spend an entire
day, proselyting talking to

1553
01:42:11,708 --> 01:42:14,500
thousands of people, and not
even get a single discussion.

1554
01:42:14,500 --> 01:42:17,500
And usually, that was, that was
pretty par for the course.

1555
01:42:18,200 --> 01:42:20,100
And as me and my companion were
serving.

1556
01:42:20,700 --> 01:42:25,100
The lord has blessed us like no
other, and we can get any

1557
01:42:25,100 --> 01:42:28,800
proselyting time in every time,
we decided to proselyte, we

1558
01:42:28,800 --> 01:42:30,600
talked to a couple people and
next thing, you know, we were in

1559
01:42:30,600 --> 01:42:34,200
the discussion and we're sharing
the gospel and it was amazing.

1560
01:42:35,100 --> 01:42:39,500
My eyes only or came out because
Stats were looking terrible

1561
01:42:40,000 --> 01:42:42,900
because we weren't talking to
enough people.

1562
01:42:43,900 --> 01:42:45,300
He's looking at her.
That's like, what are you

1563
01:42:45,300 --> 01:42:46,100
saying?
You're having all these

1564
01:42:46,100 --> 01:42:50,800
discussions and that you're not
talking to enough people?

1565
01:42:50,800 --> 01:42:52,600
There's no way this could be
really, there's no way.

1566
01:42:52,600 --> 01:42:53,700
This is true.
There's no way.

1567
01:42:53,700 --> 01:42:56,700
This is real.
So he came out to reprimand us,

1568
01:42:56,700 --> 01:42:59,700
basically.
And so we were on splits and and

1569
01:42:59,700 --> 01:43:02,700
I went with him and I don't know
if it was just because of where

1570
01:43:02,700 --> 01:43:06,500
he was at, but the spirit was
kind of withdrawn, we didn't get

1571
01:43:06,500 --> 01:43:08,200
anything.
We didn't do find anybody to

1572
01:43:08,200 --> 01:43:09,900
teach.
We worked our butts off, though.

1573
01:43:10,100 --> 01:43:12,200
We worked our butts off.
We probably talked to 2,000

1574
01:43:12,200 --> 01:43:14,500
people and I was sighing so
hard.

1575
01:43:14,500 --> 01:43:18,200
I want to show them that look
know the Lord's just blessing

1576
01:43:18,200 --> 01:43:19,600
us.
We're not we're not being bad

1577
01:43:19,600 --> 01:43:21,600
missionaries out here.
The Lord just happened is just

1578
01:43:21,600 --> 01:43:27,600
blessing us and I was just
feeling really depressed when we

1579
01:43:27,600 --> 01:43:30,300
got back that night and we
didn't have a single discussion

1580
01:43:30,500 --> 01:43:36,200
not a single one and he came to
me that evening and he's just

1581
01:43:36,200 --> 01:43:37,700
like, hell, do I need to
apologize?

1582
01:43:39,400 --> 01:43:43,100
The missions saying, all this
bad stuff about you, and I

1583
01:43:43,100 --> 01:43:47,100
believed it, and they peas were
telling me that you're lying

1584
01:43:47,100 --> 01:43:49,700
about your stats.
And I need to come here and and

1585
01:43:49,700 --> 01:43:54,100
see that, and, and call you on
it, and he said, I've never

1586
01:43:54,100 --> 01:43:56,000
worked so hard in my life as a
missionary.

1587
01:43:56,000 --> 01:44:00,300
Like, if I've never worked this
hard as a missionary, We didn't

1588
01:44:00,300 --> 01:44:02,400
and I like, well bleep, we
didn't talk to anybody.

1589
01:44:02,400 --> 01:44:06,100
It's like yeah.
But we were you're trying, you

1590
01:44:06,100 --> 01:44:09,100
know, you were trying, you were
and you have the spirit and you

1591
01:44:09,700 --> 01:44:13,000
and he was like, I'm so sorry.
I judged you incorrectly and he

1592
01:44:13,000 --> 01:44:15,700
apologized and that really meant
something.

1593
01:44:15,700 --> 01:44:18,500
Because at the time I was
feeling very persecuted, very

1594
01:44:18,500 --> 01:44:21,800
singled out.
I was getting close to maybe

1595
01:44:21,800 --> 01:44:28,600
even being depressed and but the
point of this whole thing

1596
01:44:28,600 --> 01:44:33,200
though, is that that we were
doing that that mother and the

1597
01:44:33,200 --> 01:44:40,000
mother English class and We
started having baptisms from

1598
01:44:40,000 --> 01:44:42,800
that.
And, and from our prostitute

1599
01:44:42,800 --> 01:44:46,200
Tory efforts, like nothing that
nothing our mission had ever

1600
01:44:46,200 --> 01:44:54,300
seen. and, The point is it, I
did.

1601
01:44:55,200 --> 01:45:00,300
The point is is that I had I
sought the spear I sought

1602
01:45:00,300 --> 01:45:02,300
answers from God.
I was in a bind.

1603
01:45:02,300 --> 01:45:05,200
I was in a paradox.
I didn't know the right way out.

1604
01:45:05,700 --> 01:45:07,600
I took it to the Lord and things
didn't go.

1605
01:45:07,600 --> 01:45:09,900
Exactly.
As I expected them to, I didn't

1606
01:45:09,900 --> 01:45:13,100
just make a stand and say this
is the truth and I'm not going

1607
01:45:13,100 --> 01:45:18,200
to budge neither.
Did I surrender to something I

1608
01:45:18,200 --> 01:45:21,800
knew to be false.
I was guided through that

1609
01:45:21,800 --> 01:45:24,800
minefield.
By the spirit.

1610
01:45:26,200 --> 01:45:31,000
And by inspiration.
And ultimately it was one of the

1611
01:45:31,008 --> 01:45:34,300
most powerful spiritual
experiences of my life and I

1612
01:45:34,308 --> 01:45:40,200
came home feeling like I did it.
I did what I came to do, and I

1613
01:45:40,200 --> 01:45:42,800
learned from it and I Grew From
it and I face these challenges

1614
01:45:42,800 --> 01:45:47,600
and my point in sharing this is
that I this is this is a lot

1615
01:45:47,600 --> 01:45:50,600
harder.
This is a lot harder when it's

1616
01:45:50,600 --> 01:45:53,300
that when it's the church wants,
the whole church that you're

1617
01:45:53,300 --> 01:45:56,900
finding this Paradox with not
just an isolated, Ranch or their

1618
01:45:56,900 --> 01:46:03,800
single Ward, or a mission, but
when it is, the whole thing that

1619
01:46:03,800 --> 01:46:06,800
makes it so much harder.
And I do understand that, but I

1620
01:46:06,800 --> 01:46:11,300
can promise you that there is a
way through this maze.

1621
01:46:11,500 --> 01:46:15,800
There's a way to hold on to the
things that, you know, to be

1622
01:46:15,800 --> 01:46:20,100
true.
And hold on to the blessings of

1623
01:46:20,108 --> 01:46:23,300
the gospel and even be prospered
and blessed from it.

1624
01:46:23,300 --> 01:46:25,700
There might be persecution,
there might be some, there might

1625
01:46:25,700 --> 01:46:27,700
be some stuff sometimes where
you going to have to do things.

1626
01:46:27,700 --> 01:46:32,600
You don't want to do, but there
is a way through this and it's

1627
01:46:32,600 --> 01:46:35,600
with the Lord and I can promise
you that.

1628
01:46:37,500 --> 01:46:40,600
With the Lord, there is there's
a way through this and you can

1629
01:46:40,600 --> 01:46:45,200
have, despite all this stuff
that Dave was saying, there is

1630
01:46:45,200 --> 01:46:48,800
peace, there is Comfort.
There's Faith there is Joy.

1631
01:46:48,800 --> 01:46:52,700
There is light even in these
times of Darkness, even with it

1632
01:46:52,700 --> 01:46:56,600
seeming, like the whole world is
coming in on you and then, and

1633
01:46:56,600 --> 01:46:59,100
then your best friend.
Seemingly stabs.

1634
01:46:59,100 --> 01:47:05,000
You in the back, there's still a
lot of light and joy, and peace

1635
01:47:05,000 --> 01:47:06,900
in this world and you can find
it through Christ.

1636
01:47:06,900 --> 01:47:08,700
And so I just want to share that
testimony.

1637
01:47:09,600 --> 01:47:10,900
That's awesome.
Thank you.

1638
01:47:11,900 --> 01:47:15,600
I'll end with this and then I'm
going to let you wrap up with

1639
01:47:15,600 --> 01:47:20,100
anything you want to say we've
spoken some hard truth on here.

1640
01:47:22,600 --> 01:47:27,900
I certainly have been more blunt
than I have been before on this

1641
01:47:27,900 --> 01:47:35,200
issue with with with the church.
I want to make sure that the

1642
01:47:35,208 --> 01:47:41,500
listeners who are LDS, no, I
love you.

1643
01:47:41,800 --> 01:47:45,900
I really do.
I don't say these things to pick

1644
01:47:45,900 --> 01:47:47,900
on the church.
That's not what I'm doing.

1645
01:47:49,600 --> 01:47:55,600
I'm trying to.
Just raise the warning that if

1646
01:47:55,600 --> 01:47:58,200
you're feeling like, something's
not quite right, you're not

1647
01:47:58,200 --> 01:48:02,700
alone.
I stand ready to serve you,

1648
01:48:02,700 --> 01:48:07,100
however, I can, I know this is
uncomfortable.

1649
01:48:07,300 --> 01:48:10,900
It's not something.
I, it's not something I

1650
01:48:10,900 --> 01:48:14,100
delighted in talking about, to
be honest with you, I hope.

1651
01:48:14,100 --> 01:48:16,800
No, I had hoped that.
Nobody else would want to talk

1652
01:48:16,800 --> 01:48:19,100
about this, so I could let it
go.

1653
01:48:19,800 --> 01:48:22,700
Sorry, Dave, I didn't want to.
I didn't want to ask about it.

1654
01:48:22,700 --> 01:48:32,900
Even myself, you're good, you're
good. but, I just want to say

1655
01:48:32,900 --> 01:48:36,800
it's not just you, if you're
feeling like something isn't

1656
01:48:36,800 --> 01:48:39,500
right, you're not alone, you're
not alone.

1657
01:48:39,500 --> 01:48:43,500
Chances are there someone that
you sit next to a church who's

1658
01:48:43,500 --> 01:48:46,000
feeling the same way, but
because of social pressures, you

1659
01:48:46,000 --> 01:48:48,700
just don't say anything.
I get that.

1660
01:48:50,200 --> 01:48:55,100
Not everybody has as low and IQ,
as I do to want to just throw

1661
01:48:55,100 --> 01:48:57,100
their voice out into the ether
and scream.

1662
01:48:57,100 --> 01:49:00,100
I'm a fundamentalist, I get it.
I get it.

1663
01:49:00,100 --> 01:49:02,300
I didn't have as much to lose as
a lot E.

1664
01:49:03,200 --> 01:49:04,800
I didn't.
My wife was on board.

1665
01:49:04,800 --> 01:49:09,200
My kids were on board.
I was the only Mormon on either

1666
01:49:09,200 --> 01:49:13,700
side of my family.
I I was, you know, I was spared

1667
01:49:13,700 --> 01:49:15,900
a lot of pain from that.
I get it.

1668
01:49:16,000 --> 01:49:18,700
You that may not be your
situation, but you're not alone.

1669
01:49:19,700 --> 01:49:25,100
There are we love you we want to
serve you however we can if that

1670
01:49:25,100 --> 01:49:27,900
means you want to figure out a
way to stay in the LDS church

1671
01:49:28,000 --> 01:49:31,300
I'm down for that.
Whatever you figure out what the

1672
01:49:31,300 --> 01:49:36,900
Lord wants you to do and we'll
support you 100%.

1673
01:49:37,000 --> 01:49:42,600
But no, you're not alone.
No, that those feelings you have

1674
01:49:42,600 --> 01:49:47,100
are warranted.
Just breathe.

1675
01:49:47,300 --> 01:49:50,700
Pray a lot.
Find like-minded people.

1676
01:49:53,100 --> 01:49:55,700
And go forward with faith
because I can promise you

1677
01:49:56,000 --> 01:50:00,000
through this storm.
It's again, it's going to feel

1678
01:50:00,000 --> 01:50:02,500
like your whole world is
crashing down but through this

1679
01:50:02,500 --> 01:50:05,700
storm on the other side there is
peace.

1680
01:50:05,700 --> 01:50:09,800
There's contentment.
And you're going to be able one

1681
01:50:09,800 --> 01:50:15,800
day to stand before God Almighty
and say I did the best I could

1682
01:50:15,800 --> 01:50:19,100
with what I was given and that
will be enough.

1683
01:50:22,300 --> 01:50:23,900
Amen, brother.
Amen.

1684
01:50:26,600 --> 01:50:29,200
Well, dude, we've been at this
for, just over two hours now.

1685
01:50:29,400 --> 01:50:32,200
It's like what?
Almost eleven where you are.

1686
01:50:34,300 --> 01:50:37,800
I'll Asylum and me 10:30, I
guess, but we're pushing 11.

1687
01:50:38,400 --> 01:50:40,000
Okay.
Is there anything else you want

1688
01:50:40,000 --> 01:50:41,800
to go over?
We didn't cover on this Justin.

1689
01:50:45,100 --> 01:50:48,500
I think I think we covered.
I think we covered at least as

1690
01:50:48,500 --> 01:50:52,900
best as we could.
I hope that I just hope that

1691
01:50:55,400 --> 01:50:58,000
We're heard the right way, I
really do.

1692
01:50:58,000 --> 01:51:01,000
I again, like I said, this at
the beginning, I did not want to

1693
01:51:01,000 --> 01:51:04,200
have died.
I never ever wanted to ever have

1694
01:51:04,200 --> 01:51:07,400
to say anything against the
church.

1695
01:51:07,800 --> 01:51:11,100
We know what it's taught.
This is not a place I ever ever

1696
01:51:11,100 --> 01:51:15,000
intended or wanted to be and I
still don't feel like I have I'm

1697
01:51:15,000 --> 01:51:19,000
not we're not speaking against
the church, we're speaking

1698
01:51:19,000 --> 01:51:23,300
against we're speaking for the
truth in defense of the truth,

1699
01:51:23,500 --> 01:51:25,400
right?
And if Leave in these truths if

1700
01:51:25,400 --> 01:51:29,000
you believe what Brigham Young
taught and when Joseph Smith

1701
01:51:29,000 --> 01:51:32,200
taught, if you believe the
testimony is in the scriptures

1702
01:51:32,600 --> 01:51:38,100
and then look at it that way,
look at it that way and say that

1703
01:51:38,300 --> 01:51:41,600
and recognize.
We don't have any desire to tear

1704
01:51:41,600 --> 01:51:43,800
down Faith or to tear down the
church.

1705
01:51:45,800 --> 01:51:48,400
But we want to let you know
that.

1706
01:51:49,900 --> 01:51:52,900
We just want to let you know
that you don't have to follow

1707
01:51:52,900 --> 01:51:54,400
this.
You don't have to go this

1708
01:51:54,400 --> 01:51:57,300
direction if it's repulsive to
your soul.

1709
01:51:57,700 --> 01:52:01,300
If this is not what you signed
up for.

1710
01:52:02,200 --> 01:52:04,600
It's okay.
That's all right.

1711
01:52:04,800 --> 01:52:07,200
There is a way through this and
you still.

1712
01:52:07,200 --> 01:52:10,100
Can you still maintain your
faith in the restoration?

1713
01:52:10,200 --> 01:52:13,800
You still keep your testimony of
the Book of Mormon and you still

1714
01:52:13,800 --> 01:52:16,800
have that relationship with God?
There's a, there's a way through

1715
01:52:17,200 --> 01:52:18,700
you don't have to give those
things up.

1716
01:52:19,400 --> 01:52:23,800
And that's, that's ultimately
why I decided I was willing to.

1717
01:52:24,000 --> 01:52:27,400
I wanted I needed to talk about
this subject.

1718
01:52:29,300 --> 01:52:33,100
Absolutely.
All right, dude, awesome.

1719
01:52:33,100 --> 01:52:37,000
Thanks for coming on, man.
Of course, Dave, thank you for

1720
01:52:37,000 --> 01:52:39,600
having me.
Bye everybody.

1721
01:52:53,800 --> 01:52:57,000
You're listening to the Mormon
Renegade podcast.