Episode #69: Re-Baptism & Baptisms For Health: Practices Desperately Needed W/Benjamin Winfield

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There are certain ordinances and
principles in the restored

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gospel that were revealed by the
early leaders of the LDS church

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that are no longer practiced or
even remembered within the

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church.
Some of those practices are the

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principles of re-baptism and
baptisms for health today, I

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have Benjamin Winfield back on
the podcast.

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Now, you might remember been
from a previous episode where we

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discussed his Tick-Tock Channel
1889 An ism today, been breaks

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down the history of these
principles and practices.

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Why they were abandoned by the
LDS church and how these

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ordinances can be one more way
that we as Mormons can

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strengthen our connection with
our father and our savior.

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That's next, on this episode of
the Mormon Renegade podcast.

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There is no doubt as a general
rule, Mormons are a real social

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people and there's no better
place to connect with other

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people than at conferences
devoted to Mormonism with that

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said, there's one coming up that
I can't recommend highly enough

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and that is the restoration tour
conference.

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It is happening this year on May
26th and 27th and wind in Utah.

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Many speakers.
You will hear.

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There have been on this podcast.
They include Jacob between

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Hannah, Stoddard Taylor Smith,
Joshua Erickson, Kimberly Smith,

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myself and more.
Go to Restoration Torah

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conference dot-org, or click on
the link in this episode page

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notes to find out how you can
attend.

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You're listening to the Mormon
Renegade podcast.

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Ben.
How's it going man?

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Oh good, good.
Everything Rockin good out

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there.
Indiana?

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Yeah, no tornadoes.
No, actually.

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We did have one like a few weeks
ago, so did you?

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Yeah, yeah.
There was like, I had to like, I

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was locked down in a Walmart for
like a half hour, it was it was

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a little bit crazy.
So after that and this will tell

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you how I feel about Marked now
that you've done.

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That, would you rather be locked
down in a Walmart or really

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think long and hard about outer
Darkness because I'm not sure.

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There'd be a whole lot of
difference.

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Something.
Yeah, we were all like crowded

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like in the back.
You know, with a just a bunch of

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random strangers, like just
chill until we got the all-clear

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to leave, dude, I'll tell you
what.

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So I imagine being Being locked
down in a Walmart and I'm like,

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yeah, you know, maybe a
vasectomy with a spoon, wouldn't

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be so bad.
So, but that's.

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But anyway.
Well, dude, I appreciate you

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coming back to bed, though.
Good good.

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Well, I'm glad you guys are
staying safe.

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I've only ever been in one
tornado, and that was enough for

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me to be like this, stupid, I'm
out of here.

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Give me some place where that
breaks it up.

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But, man, it sounds.
I remember we were I was in

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Oklahoma.
Doing a job.

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And I was in my hotel room and
all of a sudden, my phone rang

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like the one in the room, which
is weird.

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Because who uses that anymore?
Everyone's got cell phones,

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right?
I pick it up.

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It's the front desk and they're
like downstairs.

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Now, you know, there's a tornado
coming, and so I go downstairs

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and do die.
It didn't do any damage to the

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hotel, but you could hear it
downstairs.

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And it sounded like a freight
train and went out the next day.

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Day and the project we were
working on was flattened and I'm

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like, well, I'm going home.
I'm cashing that ticket early

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and I'm going, but man, get on.
You, for being able to, whether

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those those are, those are a
different Beast.

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Yeah, you know, wasn't too bad.
Some tree branches, there was a

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local park, there's a big tree
that went down, but, you know,

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nothing, nothing too crazy.
No one's house has got, you

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know, picked up no, Wicked Witch
of the West, we're okay.

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It's good.
It's good.

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Well dude, I appreciate you
coming back on again.

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I enjoyed our conversation last
time.

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And as I was thinking and
praying about the subject, we're

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going to talk about which is
re-baptism.

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I was trying to think of guys
who I thought had a good grasp

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on it, and who, who just feels
these doctrines and your name

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came to mind.
So I appreciate you being on.

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Yeah, I I really appreciate
that.

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I'm glad you thought of me
because I I've Got The Tick.

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Tock, you know, 1889 and
Mormonism.

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If anyone wants to find me there
and I was I was just thinking

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like I really need to like kind
of walk people through

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re-baptism, you know, like how
would I do that?

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And I was kind of like thinking
about it and that and, and then

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you messaged me like an hour and
a half later and you're like, I

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need I'm one to talk to me about
re-baptism I'm like okay well I

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guess that was the Lord it is
you know I should we shouldn't

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be surprised when that happens
but when it does it is still

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cool.
Right?

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When those when everything syncs
up like that it's just awesome

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to always see that.
So and people don't realize that

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That re-baptism is something
that was in the church for quite

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a while.
Like, this wasn't just a passing

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fad until they gained you for
understanding.

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This was their kind of from the
beginning, right?

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Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
From the beginning, like

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practiced ancient.
They and the, and the Book of

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Mormon, you can find re-baptism
you find some evidence

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re-baptism in the Bible to, it's
it's there.

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And so there's this kind of When
I was coming in the church and

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the LDS church, and that's kind
of where I came out of into

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fundamentalism.
There was always this idea

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whenever you hear about
discrepancies between like how

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the church does things now and
how the church did things back

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then, it's kind of like well the
Brethren, you know, they were

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doing their best, you know, like
they had, they had some things

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right.
But there are other things that

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just weren't quite clear on
until You know, in the 80s.

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That's when we figured it out,
you know, like and and we laugh

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about that now.
But when I was in the church

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that kind of made sense, I was
like, okay, that that must be

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what it is, you know, and my
kind of Journey for just from

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understanding this Doctrine is.
I, you know, I first I talked

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about before, like, coming
across Ogden crowd, when I was a

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teenager and I, that's like the
first, like, ever heard of my

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co, you could be re-baptized
again.

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And I like, not just because you
were excommunicated, you know,

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that's the only time that the
church does it now.

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Which side note, they will
excommunicate you.

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Now if you do get re-baptized
which would require you to be

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re-baptized in order to repent.
So you know, didn't want to go

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that route.
The LDS church is okay with it.

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You know there's certain times
like there is a shirt that I

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have that says Department of
redundancy Department.

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Right.
And sometimes the bigger the

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organization gets, the more
those redundancies just seem to

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crop up out of nowhere Benjamin.
Yeah.

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Yeah I do.
I but that's it.

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So don't you can be baptized or
you'll need to be re-baptized to

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repent for being rude.
Baptized so you said, you can

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find evidences of it in the Book
of Mormon.

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Yeah.
Yeah, you definitely can.

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So if you go to, like 3rd Nephi
fact, I got, you know, reference

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here we there's several places
where we talks about people

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getting baptized.
So, you know, nephite talks

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about how he baptized many
people, many Believers and he

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ordained men into this ministry
and the a Years later and

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destruction of the nephite
nation happens and they went

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down into the waters and were
baptized again, an e Phi.

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So this is the profit gets
re-baptized after the

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destruction of their Nation as
they're kind of waiting for the

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second coming and then it says
that the elders and teachers and

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Priests were baptized well if
you're a priest or teacher an

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elder you've been Sized.
Yeah.

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And what chapters at in.
So, you're going to find that in

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a few different places.
Well, 3519, is where you going

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to see Nephi going and getting
baptized, and if you look

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carefully, you'll see in a few
other places.

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If you go back to Alma, you
know, when he starts out right,

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where he is a priest.
One of the Priest of King Noah

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and have been a tie comes to him
and breeches, and he's the only

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one who listens.
He's the only one who listens

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and goes and repents.
And he goes and teaches people

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would have been at I taught and
then they go form Church of

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Christ and it's kind of hinted.
I think in the Book of Mormon,

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that the alma was legitimately a
priest.

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He was just way sure.
And so he goes to the Waters of

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Mormon and they're Sizing people
and he goes, and it records that

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he brings someone down into the
waters to baptize them, but he

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goes down into the water with
that person and they come out

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together, but he only did that
for the first person that he

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baptized.
Whoa.

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So I think in this instance,
where it's kind of a unique case

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because you would normally need
someone else to be re-baptized.

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To re-baptized you but where he
did hold the priesthood and

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there really wasn't someone else
to administer to him.

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And he was he had repented of
his sins.

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He was given that opportunity to
essentially re-baptized himself.

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I'm not looks like unique case.
I don't think we've seen

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anything else in the scriptures
where that happens, but with

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Alma he that was a kind of a
re-baptism.

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Wow.
Yeah.

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So I mean, It goes back.
Further than just the beginnings

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of the restoration, this, this
is obviously scriptural, right?

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I mean, we can find evidences of
it in the scriptures.

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Yeah.
And if you go to the New

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Testament, you've got the
Apostle.

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Paul.
There's a story in Acts and Acts

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19 where he comes across people
who were baptized and they're

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like, well, we were baptized
according to John's baptism.

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And Paul says, well have you
received the Holy Ghost said,

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You were baptized and I know
never told us about a holy

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ghost, we're not really sure.
And Paul's like, okay, let's get

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you baptized again.
Hmm.

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So that they could be confirmed
and we're kind of assuming that,

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that baptism of John, is a
reference to John.

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The Baptist right was acting in
with the authority there on a

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priesthood and therefore, he
didn't have the authority to lay

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on hands.
For the, the gift of the Holy

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Ghost for confirmation.
So he was just baptizing people

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for remission of their sins.
And these people, this was a

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group of people that the Apostle
Paul comes in contact, with who

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had been baptized before is
like, what you need to be

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baptized again.
And then in the Book of

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Revelation, there's kind of a
reference.

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And people might argue with this
one, but I do think that it's a

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reference, you know, John is
Writing to the church at Ephesus

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and he says, remember, therefore
from whence Thou Art fallen.

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So he's calling them to
repentance and he says, and

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repent, do the first works or
else.

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I will come unto thee quickly,
and will remove thy Candlestick

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out of his place, except thou
repent.

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So that's in the Book of
Revelations.

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And so saying, go well, what are
the first Works?

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What are the first works of the
Gospel repentance?

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Faith, baptism and Gift of the
Holy Ghost, right?

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Right.
So John is writing to a branch

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of the church that had, you
know, fallen into sin and doing

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a lot of things that shouldn't.
And he's saying go back and do

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the first works again.
Hmm, guys, got got lost in to go

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back and do the first of you.
He's telling them.

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I think, though, it's not
explicit, he's telling them.

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You need to be re-baptized, you
guys have been doing wrong and

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need to start over.
Over again.

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Wow, dude.
That's so like, I've never

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picked that up and it's funny,
what, what you you miss in the

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scripture, sometimes by not
paying attention, a little bit

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more which I'm completely guilty
of.

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Like, there's times I'm reading
my scriptures and I'm like, I

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could sure go for a pizza,
right?

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Or you know, something like
that.

223
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So yeah, it's I think it just
lends Credence to that, you

224
00:14:15,400 --> 00:14:17,000
know?
Like I never would have spotted

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00:14:17,000 --> 00:14:20,600
that had I not talk to you.
I think it also lends Credence

226
00:14:20,600 --> 00:14:24,400
to this idea of gathering with
other people is a good thing,

227
00:14:24,400 --> 00:14:26,200
right?
Being able to bounce ideas off

228
00:14:26,200 --> 00:14:29,600
one another, because your
perspective isn't mine, and

229
00:14:29,600 --> 00:14:32,500
you're going to see things that
I don't, and I can benefit from

230
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them.
Yeah, you know, and as I kind of

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00:14:36,400 --> 00:14:39,300
like, look back to son like my
experience with it, you know I

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heard about re-baptism when I
was a teenager and I kind of got

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00:14:45,000 --> 00:14:47,100
us thinking about it because I
was like preparing a serve a

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00:14:47,108 --> 00:14:51,400
mission for the the church and I
thought well shoot, I got

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baptized when I was eight I
haven't done anything wrong then

236
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like basically all of my sins
have been after.

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00:14:58,900 --> 00:15:02,900
I got baptized you know like
every stupid thing I've done was

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like after I got baptized.
I feel like, you know, shouldn't

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I be baptized again.
You know, before I go on my

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mission I just kind of like felt
like the right thing but then,

241
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you know, of course, like not
really having enough

242
00:15:18,600 --> 00:15:22,600
understanding at the time.
I just kind of brush that aside

243
00:15:23,200 --> 00:15:27,400
and thought, well, I guess like
we don't do that anymore so I'll

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just like repent and ask for
forgiveness and kind of move on.

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But that was sort of like, in my
Head.

246
00:15:34,200 --> 00:15:36,700
I'm like, well, it kind of seems
like I ought to also be

247
00:15:36,700 --> 00:15:40,000
re-baptized, you know.
Right, right.

248
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Absolutely.
Well, that's awesome.

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That it can be found in the
scriptures like that.

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00:15:44,900 --> 00:15:49,400
Because now we've moved into a
different realm from just the

251
00:15:49,400 --> 00:15:54,400
restoration to Antiquity, right?
I mean, now we're we're dealing

252
00:15:54,400 --> 00:15:57,200
with stuff, much older and much
closer to the Savior.

253
00:15:58,300 --> 00:16:02,500
Yeah, this was the, this was an
ancient practice this happened,

254
00:16:02,700 --> 00:16:05,400
you know, wherever we Is the
gospel Ancien.

255
00:16:05,400 --> 00:16:12,500
They re baptism is a part of it
and if you look at the Pioneers,

256
00:16:12,500 --> 00:16:16,600
there are a lot of different
reasons why they re-baptized, I

257
00:16:16,600 --> 00:16:24,800
think repentance of sin is so so
important because that's kind of

258
00:16:24,800 --> 00:16:27,100
the big one.
But other reasons you'd be

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00:16:27,100 --> 00:16:33,000
re-baptized Brigham Young had
everyone when they immigrated

260
00:16:33,600 --> 00:16:36,300
into.
To the into Deseret soon as they

261
00:16:36,300 --> 00:16:38,900
came in Salt Lake Valley, you
need to be re-baptized again.

262
00:16:39,400 --> 00:16:42,500
You're baptized before, that's
fine, you do it again.

263
00:16:43,800 --> 00:16:47,500
So when they immigrated, anytime
someone entered into United

264
00:16:47,500 --> 00:16:51,600
order then needed to be
re-baptized before you got

265
00:16:51,600 --> 00:16:56,100
married, you should be
re-baptized when you go through

266
00:16:56,100 --> 00:17:00,000
the temple to receive your
endowments, it under Brigham

267
00:17:00,000 --> 00:17:03,700
Young, and John Taylor.
It was a requirement that you'd

268
00:17:03,700 --> 00:17:06,900
be.
Re-baptized before you go and

269
00:17:07,400 --> 00:17:10,000
lose your downloads.
Wow.

270
00:17:10,000 --> 00:17:14,099
So you know this happened a lot.
You know, other reasons they

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00:17:14,099 --> 00:17:19,500
would do baptism re baptisms for
healing of the sick.

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Dude, I just participated in one
of those two weeks ago.

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It was my very first hear from
you.

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It was my first one I'd ever
done.

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I didn't know the wording.
Fortunately, someone was there

276
00:17:33,400 --> 00:17:38,700
to walk me through it, but, and
last week was the first week.

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00:17:38,700 --> 00:17:42,100
I actually get a re-baptism for
myself as well.

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00:17:43,800 --> 00:17:48,200
And I don't know why other than
just timing and just things not

279
00:17:48,200 --> 00:17:51,600
working out, but I was
re-baptized.

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00:17:51,600 --> 00:17:55,900
And then my wife who had to go
in for next surgery on Monday

281
00:17:56,500 --> 00:17:59,300
that the following Monday.
She wanted to be re-baptized for

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00:17:59,300 --> 00:18:03,900
health, and I was like, who I've
never seen this done, but I'll

283
00:18:03,900 --> 00:18:05,400
figure it out.
And like I said, fortunately,

284
00:18:05,400 --> 00:18:08,400
there was a great guy there.
The the same guy who did the

285
00:18:08,900 --> 00:18:12,800
podcast with me on Temple
changes He was there and he

286
00:18:12,800 --> 00:18:16,900
could walk me through it and
it's not, you know, it's not

287
00:18:16,900 --> 00:18:20,000
that much different.
It's almost like a normal

288
00:18:20,000 --> 00:18:24,200
baptism and then halfway through
the wording you stop and say,

289
00:18:24,700 --> 00:18:29,200
you know, so that such and such
might be healed and whatnot.

290
00:18:29,500 --> 00:18:35,400
And then Bap to the baptism
happens, and it was such an

291
00:18:35,500 --> 00:18:40,500
awesome feeling to not only have
the opportunity to be

292
00:18:40,500 --> 00:18:45,400
re-baptized. but to be able to
perform that for my wife was

293
00:18:45,400 --> 00:18:50,500
just I mean, it was, it was
awesome.

294
00:18:50,500 --> 00:18:51,600
I don't know how else to
explain.

295
00:18:51,600 --> 00:18:54,500
I'm trying to put words to it.
And I'm just drawing a blank

296
00:18:54,900 --> 00:18:58,000
because the feelings, the words
don't do justice to the

297
00:18:58,000 --> 00:19:00,600
feelings.
That's beautiful.

298
00:19:02,500 --> 00:19:06,800
Yeah.
And that should be a blessing in

299
00:19:06,800 --> 00:19:09,700
a privilege that's available to
Believers.

300
00:19:10,100 --> 00:19:14,400
And this isn't, you know, for me
like re-baptism isn't one of

301
00:19:14,400 --> 00:19:17,800
these like It's not the Adam God
Doctrine.

302
00:19:17,800 --> 00:19:22,000
It's not it's not Celestial
plural, marriage.

303
00:19:22,000 --> 00:19:25,900
It's not.
This like really meaty difficult

304
00:19:25,900 --> 00:19:31,600
concept, this should be just a
part of our regular gospel

305
00:19:31,600 --> 00:19:33,500
living, you know, just all
right.

306
00:19:33,500 --> 00:19:38,300
This should be something that's
available to all of us and it's

307
00:19:38,300 --> 00:19:42,600
heartbreaking to see the church
forsake something.

308
00:19:42,600 --> 00:19:45,700
So, so elegant and so simple and
so beautiful.

309
00:19:46,500 --> 00:19:52,400
Yeah, yeah.
And and I'll say this and this

310
00:19:52,400 --> 00:19:57,900
was something I wasn't prepared
for there's a richness there

311
00:19:57,900 --> 00:20:05,600
that happens when when you go
through that again and you come

312
00:20:05,600 --> 00:20:09,000
out of the font and you're like,
I'm good.

313
00:20:09,400 --> 00:20:11,400
Now, my case where I'm really
flawed.

314
00:20:11,700 --> 00:20:15,400
I'm good up until someone cuts
me off in traffic and then I

315
00:20:15,408 --> 00:20:18,200
lose it but go back.
Right?

316
00:20:18,300 --> 00:20:22,600
Exactly.
But but for that whole weekend,

317
00:20:22,800 --> 00:20:27,900
man, it was just, it was awesome
and I can still feel it even now

318
00:20:27,900 --> 00:20:32,500
right where it's just like it's
just that recommitment.

319
00:20:32,500 --> 00:20:34,100
I don't know how else to explain
it.

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00:20:35,700 --> 00:20:38,300
It's awesome.
It's like when you miss It's a

321
00:20:38,300 --> 00:20:41,900
couple of days of lifting at the
gym and then you go back and you

322
00:20:41,900 --> 00:20:46,200
just get a good one in its kind
of that feeling like, okay, I'm

323
00:20:46,200 --> 00:20:48,300
back on track.
I'm backward doing what I'm

324
00:20:48,300 --> 00:20:53,800
supposed to and it absolutely
changes kind of your outlook and

325
00:20:53,800 --> 00:21:00,500
how you want to go forward.
Yeah, yeah, it's huge.

326
00:21:00,500 --> 00:21:04,500
And that's something that that
ought to be available to us.

327
00:21:04,500 --> 00:21:07,300
No, not another thing that kind
of came to mind.

328
00:21:07,300 --> 00:21:13,700
I was thinking about When I was
a missionary for the LDS church,

329
00:21:14,400 --> 00:21:21,100
we taught family.
And the, the woman had been

330
00:21:21,300 --> 00:21:23,800
completely inactive member of
the church.

331
00:21:24,000 --> 00:21:28,400
She'd been baptized when she was
like 12 or 13 and then her

332
00:21:28,400 --> 00:21:32,700
family went inactive.
And she did too and and and then

333
00:21:32,700 --> 00:21:36,800
she married a man who was a
member of the church, but years

334
00:21:36,800 --> 00:21:39,200
later, they've got kids.
Kids and they're kind of

335
00:21:39,200 --> 00:21:45,800
interested and coming back to
church and so we teach them and

336
00:21:45,800 --> 00:21:48,700
it was really great experience
like they're really excited

337
00:21:49,500 --> 00:21:53,200
about coming to church and
reading the scriptures and and

338
00:21:53,200 --> 00:21:57,800
it's just this really great
experience and and we challenged

339
00:21:57,800 --> 00:22:01,500
him to be baptized the husband.
And he's like oh yeah like I

340
00:22:01,500 --> 00:22:05,700
want to be baptized like and
he's so he's excited and then

341
00:22:05,800 --> 00:22:13,000
his wife says well I want to be
Taste and, and it's sad looking

342
00:22:13,000 --> 00:22:17,300
back.
But in my ignorance, I had to

343
00:22:17,300 --> 00:22:21,600
say, well no, you you can't be
baptized, you were baptized when

344
00:22:22,300 --> 00:22:25,800
when you're a kid and she's
like, well, yeah, but I didn't

345
00:22:25,800 --> 00:22:30,100
know anything when I was a kid.
Like I was, I just did it

346
00:22:30,108 --> 00:22:32,600
because my parents did.
I'm like, now, I actually

347
00:22:32,600 --> 00:22:36,500
understand the gospel.
I I want to choose it.

348
00:22:36,500 --> 00:22:39,700
I want to I want to be Baptized,
because I actually have an

349
00:22:39,700 --> 00:22:44,400
understanding and we're like,
well, you know, she's like an on

350
00:22:44,400 --> 00:22:47,200
top of that, like everything I
shouldn't have done was like

351
00:22:47,600 --> 00:22:50,500
afterwards, and I was like,
well, you know, you can go.

352
00:22:50,900 --> 00:22:53,500
If you feel bad about something,
you can go confess the bishop,

353
00:22:53,500 --> 00:22:58,400
but, you know, just repent and
and, and you're good.

354
00:22:59,000 --> 00:23:05,400
And even at the time, it didn't
feel right, but there wasn't

355
00:23:05,400 --> 00:23:07,900
anything else that I could
really, all right?

356
00:23:08,500 --> 00:23:09,600
You know.
Yeah.

357
00:23:09,600 --> 00:23:12,500
Cuz you're constrained by that
piece of holy writ known as the

358
00:23:12,500 --> 00:23:16,000
handbook.
So I mean you can't you can't go

359
00:23:16,000 --> 00:23:22,300
against that I mean but all
right, ya know it.

360
00:23:23,200 --> 00:23:26,600
This is and you're right.
It's not it's not needy like

361
00:23:26,600 --> 00:23:30,600
plural marriage or law of
consecration or Adam God

362
00:23:30,600 --> 00:23:34,200
Doctrine.
And for the life of me, I can't

363
00:23:34,200 --> 00:23:37,800
figure out why the mainstream
LDS Church.

364
00:23:38,000 --> 00:23:40,800
Got away from it.
Do you have any reasons on why

365
00:23:40,800 --> 00:23:43,700
they're?
So, I was thinking about that,

366
00:23:43,700 --> 00:23:45,600
you know?
And of course is all

367
00:23:45,600 --> 00:23:49,600
fundamentalist that our first
suspect is always Heber J.

368
00:23:49,600 --> 00:23:54,200
Grant because that scoundrel is
usually the one who's

369
00:23:54,200 --> 00:23:56,600
responsible?
You know what I find

370
00:23:56,600 --> 00:23:59,800
fascinating?
Is that both the church and the

371
00:23:59,800 --> 00:24:03,500
government really go off the
rails about the same time.

372
00:24:04,000 --> 00:24:07,900
And if I'm not mistaken, Woodrow
Wilson was president.

373
00:24:08,200 --> 00:24:13,100
About or at the same time as
Heber, J Grant.

374
00:24:14,000 --> 00:24:17,900
And yeah, I think so maybe a
little bit before, but yeah it

375
00:24:17,900 --> 00:24:20,200
but that it's that whole
beginning of the Progressive

376
00:24:20,200 --> 00:24:22,700
Era.
So, I feel like as

377
00:24:22,700 --> 00:24:26,700
fundamentalist Mormons, we have
to write, you have Woodrow

378
00:24:26,700 --> 00:24:29,800
Wilson on the on the government
side and then Heber J.

379
00:24:29,800 --> 00:24:33,800
Grant on the church side where
you're just like those two,

380
00:24:34,000 --> 00:24:39,100
those two, everything was fine
until you guys showed up.

381
00:24:41,700 --> 00:24:47,900
And so yeah, we want To and he
certainly, I think he did end up

382
00:24:47,900 --> 00:24:53,100
putting like the, the final nail
in the coffin, but if you want

383
00:24:53,100 --> 00:24:58,200
to go back to when it was really
first, they were trying to get

384
00:24:58,200 --> 00:25:00,800
rid of it.
It's Wilford.

385
00:25:00,900 --> 00:25:06,500
Woodruff is the man to blame and
I feel so there's no yeah

386
00:25:07,600 --> 00:25:12,700
important lesson here.
So now so we look here and I

387
00:25:12,700 --> 00:25:14,700
wrote down kind of like
Timeline.

388
00:25:14,700 --> 00:25:18,900
As I was putting some things
together of significant events.

389
00:25:19,400 --> 00:25:25,700
There is the 1889 Revelation
that Wilford Woodruff receives,

390
00:25:25,700 --> 00:25:29,200
which many members of the church
are completely unaware of.

391
00:25:29,600 --> 00:25:33,000
I think most fundamentalist have
at least heard of it, but

392
00:25:33,000 --> 00:25:36,300
Wilford Woodruff records, it in
his journal.

393
00:25:36,900 --> 00:25:42,200
And essentially, the kind of
point of the Revelation is the

394
00:25:42,200 --> 00:25:45,900
Lord is warning.
Woodruff not to make a deal with

395
00:25:45,900 --> 00:25:49,300
the enemies of the church.
Don't enter it enter into any

396
00:25:49,300 --> 00:25:54,700
agreements trust in me and I can
take care of you.

397
00:25:54,700 --> 00:25:57,500
I can protect you but you gotta
trust in me.

398
00:25:58,000 --> 00:26:04,100
And this was received less than
a year before Wilford Woodruff

399
00:26:04,400 --> 00:26:05,700
issues.
The manifesto.

400
00:26:07,600 --> 00:26:15,200
That's an 1890 and then we start
to when Apostasy happens that

401
00:26:15,200 --> 00:26:18,500
happens.
Kind of in groupings.

402
00:26:18,500 --> 00:26:21,800
It seems like there's a lot that
happens all at once and then

403
00:26:21,800 --> 00:26:25,600
things will be kind of still for
a while and then a lot will

404
00:26:25,600 --> 00:26:30,000
happen down the road.
But the groupings of things that

405
00:26:30,000 --> 00:26:34,500
we lost in 1890.
We have the church predicting

406
00:26:34,600 --> 00:26:37,700
rejecting plural marriage.
Of course, we know it's still

407
00:26:37,700 --> 00:26:42,500
going on for quite a while after
that before the church really

408
00:26:42,500 --> 00:26:44,400
says, okay.
We're Serious.

409
00:26:44,900 --> 00:26:52,200
But at least publicly they've
they've quit in 1890 and then in

410
00:26:52,400 --> 00:26:58,800
1894 we see the end of law of
adoption ceilings Wilford

411
00:26:58,800 --> 00:27:02,700
Woodruff announces that.
We shouldn't be doing that

412
00:27:02,700 --> 00:27:08,400
anymore and for anyone who's
listening who might not be

413
00:27:08,400 --> 00:27:11,400
familiar with that.
That's just the the practice of

414
00:27:12,300 --> 00:27:16,200
a convert who comes in.
Of the church instead of they're

415
00:27:16,200 --> 00:27:21,100
doing their family history work
instead of being filled to their

416
00:27:22,300 --> 00:27:28,800
their biological parents.
They would be adopted and to

417
00:27:29,700 --> 00:27:34,300
faithful home and he may not
change your name or have any?

418
00:27:34,500 --> 00:27:39,400
This wouldn't be a legal thing.
I'd be a spiritual adoption but

419
00:27:39,400 --> 00:27:44,200
that's who you would be sealed
to and then you would go And

420
00:27:44,200 --> 00:27:48,000
seal Your Righteous ancestors to
you, you would adopt them.

421
00:27:48,600 --> 00:27:54,800
And that's how we're tied back
and they changed it in 1894 and

422
00:27:54,800 --> 00:27:58,200
they said, no, you got to go the
other way around and you gotta

423
00:27:58,800 --> 00:28:04,000
seal yourself up and seal your
ancestors up back to Adam and

424
00:28:05,100 --> 00:28:07,200
for most people, I don't think
that's possible.

425
00:28:07,700 --> 00:28:13,500
No, no, I don't think so.
And so that's a, that's a whole

426
00:28:13,500 --> 00:28:19,400
problem but that that starts in
1894 and then in a year later

427
00:28:19,700 --> 00:28:26,800
1895 we have Wilford Woodruff
make this very interesting

428
00:28:27,600 --> 00:28:31,000
statement.
He says cease troubling

429
00:28:31,000 --> 00:28:33,900
yourselves about who God is who
Adam is?

430
00:28:33,900 --> 00:28:37,200
Who Christ is who Jehovah is For
Heaven's Sake.

431
00:28:37,600 --> 00:28:42,600
That these things alone So
Wilford Woodruff is saying hey

432
00:28:43,200 --> 00:28:45,700
we should be talking about the
atom God Doctrine.

433
00:28:45,800 --> 00:28:54,300
That's what that is, that's 1895
and in that same conference, the

434
00:28:54,300 --> 00:28:59,700
church, announces that re
baptisms should be discontinued.

435
00:29:01,600 --> 00:29:06,700
Now, my understanding is that
for a while they would still

436
00:29:06,700 --> 00:29:12,600
allow if you wanted to be. be
baptized when you received your

437
00:29:12,600 --> 00:29:20,000
endowments because people are
still and for re baptisms for

438
00:29:20,000 --> 00:29:27,300
healing, those were typically
done in the temple and instead

439
00:29:27,300 --> 00:29:30,400
of just out in like a river or a
creek or river, you'd actually

440
00:29:30,400 --> 00:29:37,300
go to the temple for that and
they kind of allowed that to

441
00:29:37,308 --> 00:29:42,900
keep going and I think probably
what really Opened is the

442
00:29:42,900 --> 00:29:46,100
individual Temple presidents
just sort of assumed like that

443
00:29:46,100 --> 00:29:49,800
probably doesn't apply to this.
We've always done this and they

444
00:29:49,800 --> 00:29:51,800
just kept doing it.
Gotcha.

445
00:29:52,800 --> 00:29:59,600
But eventually they say no we
can't we can't do that.

446
00:29:59,600 --> 00:30:01,700
And so that's kind of our
timeline.

447
00:30:01,700 --> 00:30:04,800
We have George Q, Cannon makes
this statement.

448
00:30:05,500 --> 00:30:10,000
He says we hear a good deal of
talk about re-baptism and the

449
00:30:10,000 --> 00:30:13,900
first presidency and the twelve
have felt that so much free

450
00:30:13,900 --> 00:30:18,500
baptism ought to be stopped men
when they commit sin, think if

451
00:30:18,500 --> 00:30:21,900
they can only get the bishop to
re-baptized them, they are.

452
00:30:21,900 --> 00:30:24,100
All right.
And their sins are condoned.

453
00:30:24,100 --> 00:30:26,600
It is a fallacy.
It will lead to destruction.

454
00:30:26,600 --> 00:30:29,200
There is no such thing and the
gospel of the Lord.

455
00:30:29,200 --> 00:30:31,400
Jesus Christ.
It is repentance from sin.

456
00:30:31,400 --> 00:30:36,700
That will save you, not
re-baptism So George Q Cannon

457
00:30:37,600 --> 00:30:43,100
says that an 1897.
So they're very Very against

458
00:30:43,100 --> 00:30:46,500
that.
You want to compare that to what

459
00:30:46,500 --> 00:30:48,400
Brigham Young said about.
Re-baptism.

460
00:30:49,400 --> 00:30:51,100
Hmm methinks.
I do.

461
00:30:51,100 --> 00:30:54,400
Yes, please.
All right, I think you do.

462
00:30:56,400 --> 00:31:01,000
This is what Brigham Young said
my counsel to them today, as it

463
00:31:01,000 --> 00:31:04,200
has been on former occasions to
all who have come into these.

464
00:31:04,200 --> 00:31:08,900
Valleys go and be baptized for
the remission of sins.

465
00:31:09,200 --> 00:31:12,200
Repenting of all your wanderings
from the path of righteousness.

466
00:31:12,400 --> 00:31:16,300
This believing firmly in the
name of Jesus Christ that all

467
00:31:16,300 --> 00:31:20,500
your sins will be washed away.
If any of you inquire, what is

468
00:31:20,500 --> 00:31:22,800
the necessity of your being
baptized?

469
00:31:22,800 --> 00:31:24,600
As you have not committed any
sense.

470
00:31:24,800 --> 00:31:28,500
I answer it is necessary to
fulfill all righteousness.

471
00:31:28,600 --> 00:31:30,800
So bring me I'm saying.
Even if you haven't committed

472
00:31:30,800 --> 00:31:35,000
any sentence, you come here and
you be re-baptized, but it gets

473
00:31:35,000 --> 00:31:37,400
the little even more interesting
here.

474
00:31:38,200 --> 00:31:41,400
I have heard some of you cursing
and swearing, even some of the

475
00:31:41,400 --> 00:31:44,900
elders.
I would be baptized 7 times

476
00:31:44,900 --> 00:31:47,900
where I in your place I would
not stop.

477
00:31:47,900 --> 00:31:52,600
Teasing some good Elder to
baptize me again and again until

478
00:31:52,600 --> 00:31:54,500
I could think my sins are
forgiven.

479
00:31:54,800 --> 00:31:58,500
I would not live over another
night until I was baptized

480
00:31:58,500 --> 00:32:02,900
enough to satisfy me that my
sins were forgiven then go and

481
00:32:02,900 --> 00:32:06,800
be confirmed as you were when
you first embrace the religion

482
00:32:06,800 --> 00:32:11,300
of Jesus that is my counsel.
Wow.

483
00:32:12,700 --> 00:32:15,000
And that's from the Journal of
discourses.

484
00:32:15,100 --> 00:32:16,600
What year was that
approximately?

485
00:32:16,600 --> 00:32:20,700
Does it say?
I did not drop that down

486
00:32:21,200 --> 00:32:29,000
references, General discourses,
289, I'm afraid.

487
00:32:29,000 --> 00:32:32,700
I don't have the date that but I
would have been That would have

488
00:32:32,900 --> 00:32:39,600
been in the 1850s, or maybe
1840s at the earliest, at the

489
00:32:39,600 --> 00:32:42,600
earliest, because I think, I
think the Mormons reach the Salt

490
00:32:42,600 --> 00:32:46,000
Lake Valley and 4747 right?
So yeah.

491
00:32:46,000 --> 00:32:51,000
So then the earliest it could
have been is late 1840s, right?

492
00:32:51,500 --> 00:32:55,400
Right.
And so really in the space and,

493
00:32:55,400 --> 00:32:58,400
and let's say this right, I
can't remember what year,

494
00:32:58,400 --> 00:33:01,400
Brigham died.
But I want to say it was the

495
00:33:01,500 --> 00:33:05,700
Late, 1800s, 1870, or 1880.
If I'm not mistaken.

496
00:33:06,400 --> 00:33:09,200
Yeah, probably that, I don't.
Yeah, I think 1870s or

497
00:33:09,200 --> 00:33:14,900
thereabouts is problematic and
we know that Brigham was Was

498
00:33:14,900 --> 00:33:18,200
pretty tenacious in guarding
these doctrines, right.

499
00:33:18,200 --> 00:33:23,000
He was not one to just roll over
and change his mind if he

500
00:33:23,000 --> 00:33:25,900
thought he was right.
And he received Revelation so

501
00:33:25,900 --> 00:33:28,500
you could say he probably went
to his death bed.

502
00:33:29,600 --> 00:33:32,000
Believing that same thing that
you just read.

503
00:33:32,700 --> 00:33:36,300
Now from the time he dies, 17
years later.

504
00:33:36,800 --> 00:33:43,600
That's all it, takes 17 years
and Look at where where they

505
00:33:43,600 --> 00:33:46,200
ended up.
That's, that's a breathtaking

506
00:33:46,200 --> 00:33:52,000
amount of time to go from the
gospel in its fullness to

507
00:33:52,000 --> 00:33:55,200
starting to water it down to
starting to see these things

508
00:33:55,200 --> 00:33:58,900
begin to, to go away.
And as we were sitting here

509
00:33:58,900 --> 00:34:03,300
talking about this, it really is
the apostasy almost all over

510
00:34:03,300 --> 00:34:05,100
again.
Except for the fact this time

511
00:34:05,100 --> 00:34:08,600
the Lord has said, no, they'll
be people around that are going

512
00:34:08,600 --> 00:34:13,400
to keep the stuff alive but You
look at like the Council of

513
00:34:13,400 --> 00:34:17,400
nicaea, right?
They change who God is they go

514
00:34:17,400 --> 00:34:22,600
from three, separate individuals
to the Trinity, right?

515
00:34:22,600 --> 00:34:26,699
You look at what, what we did is
a people we went from the atom,

516
00:34:26,699 --> 00:34:29,699
God Doctrine to the godhead,
right?

517
00:34:29,699 --> 00:34:35,500
And in, I shouldn't say that's
the change, but misidentifying

518
00:34:35,500 --> 00:34:40,900
who God is and especially the
temple endowment godhead, right?

519
00:34:41,300 --> 00:34:47,900
We we change the identities
completely, and then, you know,

520
00:34:49,000 --> 00:34:54,100
you you start seeing things like
practices being denied and then

521
00:34:54,100 --> 00:34:58,200
eventually, I mean, there's some
questions about priesthood

522
00:34:58,200 --> 00:35:02,200
Authority that come up, right?
And so it's like replaying

523
00:35:02,200 --> 00:35:05,500
itself all over again with the
exception of you got the

524
00:35:05,508 --> 00:35:08,400
fundamentalist now, who are out
there trying to keep these

525
00:35:08,400 --> 00:35:10,900
things alive, I just find it's
an interesting parallel.

526
00:35:11,000 --> 00:35:14,100
Well, yeah.
You know what?

527
00:35:14,100 --> 00:35:18,200
One, where some people said that
we're promised that the church

528
00:35:18,200 --> 00:35:20,300
won't go into apostasy in the
last days.

529
00:35:20,700 --> 00:35:23,200
And I think it is more accurate
to say that we were promised

530
00:35:23,200 --> 00:35:27,800
that the priesthood will not be
taken from the earth, right?

531
00:35:27,800 --> 00:35:29,700
Right.
And those are two completely

532
00:35:29,700 --> 00:35:34,600
different things.
So is that the whole reason that

533
00:35:34,600 --> 00:35:37,500
they decided to discontinue it
is they felt like it was being

534
00:35:37,500 --> 00:35:41,500
misused.
Well, I think that's kind of the

535
00:35:41,500 --> 00:35:43,900
reasoning that George Q Cannon
gives.

536
00:35:43,900 --> 00:35:46,400
Right.
Is that, you know, he thinks

537
00:35:46,400 --> 00:35:48,900
people are trying to be sneaky
about it, you know?

538
00:35:49,200 --> 00:35:54,700
Like I can go out and go part
being Saturday night and I'll

539
00:35:54,700 --> 00:35:57,700
just get someone to re-baptized
me and I go bless the sacrament

540
00:35:57,700 --> 00:35:59,600
and we've got some experience
with that.

541
00:35:59,600 --> 00:36:02,000
Like I don't know growing up in
Utah.

542
00:36:02,000 --> 00:36:05,800
I remember, you know, you'd see
certain people bless the

543
00:36:05,800 --> 00:36:10,100
sacrament and you'd be like, I
know what you been up to earlier

544
00:36:10,100 --> 00:36:12,900
in the week and I don't know
what you're doing up there, you

545
00:36:12,900 --> 00:36:13,900
know?
Right.

546
00:36:14,800 --> 00:36:19,900
And so I kind of wonder if that
sort of the and I follow that

547
00:36:19,900 --> 00:36:23,300
logic.
You know, like that makes sense

548
00:36:23,400 --> 00:36:25,200
that maybe you're not taking it
seriously.

549
00:36:25,400 --> 00:36:28,200
And I certainly think that if
you aren't taking it seriously,

550
00:36:29,400 --> 00:36:36,600
that is inappropriate and and
sinful thing, but Brigham Young

551
00:36:36,600 --> 00:36:42,800
is so, So powerful there.
He's saying do it, do it again,

552
00:36:42,800 --> 00:36:44,400
do it again.
If you're struggling with sin

553
00:36:44,400 --> 00:36:47,900
and you're trying to repent get
baptized get and then do it

554
00:36:47,900 --> 00:36:50,600
again.
You know do it as many times as

555
00:36:50,600 --> 00:36:57,200
you need to to to get those sins
away from you rhyme and such a

556
00:36:57,207 --> 00:37:02,600
different Viewpoint there you
know?

557
00:37:02,600 --> 00:37:07,300
And now the church preaches
totally against it.

558
00:37:07,900 --> 00:37:12,000
And they say, oh well you know,
taking the sacrament is the same

559
00:37:12,100 --> 00:37:18,700
that renews your your covenants.
That's not know.

560
00:37:18,700 --> 00:37:22,600
We take the sacrament to
remember Christ and and there is

561
00:37:22,600 --> 00:37:28,200
a rededication that happens with
that but if you want to be

562
00:37:28,200 --> 00:37:31,900
re-baptized, You got to go be
re-baptized.

563
00:37:32,000 --> 00:37:35,600
You got to, go do it.
Well, and I guess that was going

564
00:37:35,600 --> 00:37:39,800
to be my next question, right?
And it to play Devil's Advocate

565
00:37:40,300 --> 00:37:44,700
this, maybe even a little more
literally in this conversation,

566
00:37:44,700 --> 00:37:50,400
but, um, that was always the sum
of the justification that I had

567
00:37:50,400 --> 00:37:51,900
read was.
Well, you already take the

568
00:37:51,908 --> 00:37:54,700
sacrament that renews your
baptismal Covenants.

569
00:37:57,700 --> 00:38:01,100
I'm what's your response to
that?

570
00:38:01,200 --> 00:38:05,800
I mean.
I'm pretty convinced that, that

571
00:38:06,600 --> 00:38:12,200
was something that was used as
an excuse for getting rid of

572
00:38:13,300 --> 00:38:21,300
re-baptism is because I don't I
don't see that being taught by

573
00:38:21,300 --> 00:38:26,100
their early Brethren of like oh
you got to take the sacrament to

574
00:38:26,100 --> 00:38:31,200
renew your covenants.
I'm II see, you know and here we

575
00:38:31,200 --> 00:38:37,200
can I can pull out the second
prayers and we can read them

576
00:38:37,200 --> 00:38:38,800
because what do they say?
They do?

577
00:38:38,900 --> 00:38:42,600
You know, there you go again,
you crazy fundamentalist going

578
00:38:42,600 --> 00:38:45,000
right back to the scriptures.
Yeah.

579
00:38:45,200 --> 00:38:49,400
One of the revelations say,
that's a crazy thing.

580
00:38:49,500 --> 00:38:54,500
All right, so we get got, we've
got o God, the Eternal Father.

581
00:38:54,500 --> 00:38:58,300
We ask thee in the name of thy
son, Jesus Christ bless and

582
00:38:58,300 --> 00:39:01,800
sanctify.
This bread to all those Souls

583
00:39:01,800 --> 00:39:03,900
who take of it.
So that they may eat in

584
00:39:03,908 --> 00:39:08,800
remembrance of the body witness
unto thee that they're willing

585
00:39:08,800 --> 00:39:12,400
to take upon them, the name of
thy son and always remember him

586
00:39:12,400 --> 00:39:19,200
and keep his commandments.
So you are promising.

587
00:39:19,200 --> 00:39:23,600
They're right.
But so you're what are you're

588
00:39:23,600 --> 00:39:26,100
taking?
The sacrament and you are

589
00:39:26,200 --> 00:39:30,000
promising that you're going to
remember You're going to

590
00:39:30,008 --> 00:39:33,100
remember the sacrifice of Jesus
Christ, you're promising that

591
00:39:33,400 --> 00:39:38,300
you're going to take on the name
of Christ and you're going to

592
00:39:38,300 --> 00:39:42,100
keep the Commandments.
Now, we do promise that at

593
00:39:42,100 --> 00:39:45,200
baptism.
So I don't think that that's

594
00:39:46,700 --> 00:39:53,800
Entirely wrong to associate
those two together, but it does

595
00:39:53,800 --> 00:39:57,000
not.
In fact, say That we're

596
00:39:57,000 --> 00:39:59,100
renewing.
Our baptismal covenants.

597
00:39:59,200 --> 00:40:02,800
We are making promises and we
should be making these promises

598
00:40:02,900 --> 00:40:03,800
frequently.
You know.

599
00:40:03,800 --> 00:40:08,700
It says that we should gather
together often to take the

600
00:40:08,700 --> 00:40:15,400
sacrament and it also says that
we should use wine of Arnold.

601
00:40:15,400 --> 00:40:16,700
Make.
Yep.

602
00:40:16,700 --> 00:40:18,900
Is overlooked.
Yep.

603
00:40:19,400 --> 00:40:23,700
I you know, look whatever side
of that argument.

604
00:40:23,700 --> 00:40:26,100
Someone falls on whether it
renews their coven.

605
00:40:26,300 --> 00:40:28,500
You know, their baptismal
covenants or not.

606
00:40:30,000 --> 00:40:34,400
This I will say there is
something different when you

607
00:40:34,400 --> 00:40:40,100
walk down into those Waters
again and you're immersed and

608
00:40:40,100 --> 00:40:44,200
you come out, there is a
different feeling to that,

609
00:40:44,600 --> 00:40:49,600
right?
And it's something that I know

610
00:40:49,600 --> 00:40:56,200
sounds strange to mainstream LDS
folks on the surface but you're

611
00:40:56,200 --> 00:41:00,800
really I think you're feeling
doing yourself a disservice by

612
00:41:00,800 --> 00:41:03,700
not being more open to this idea
of re-baptism.

613
00:41:04,200 --> 00:41:10,100
I mean there's there's nothing
spooky to it, I mean nothing

614
00:41:10,400 --> 00:41:13,200
find your local fundamentalist,
you'll even keep a secret for

615
00:41:13,200 --> 00:41:20,100
you if you feel it's right.
We certainly will but, you know,

616
00:41:20,100 --> 00:41:24,700
for me, as I like kind of like,
more personally think about

617
00:41:24,700 --> 00:41:32,000
this, you know, I had, you know,
I've told people that the atom

618
00:41:32,000 --> 00:41:40,600
God Doctrine is what made me a
fundamentalist in my heart, but

619
00:41:41,200 --> 00:41:46,000
re-baptism is what made me a
fundamentalist in practice

620
00:41:47,900 --> 00:41:53,600
because And I like, I felt that
the Lord drag me kicking and

621
00:41:53,600 --> 00:41:56,600
screaming and to fundamentalism
like I didn't I just wanted to

622
00:41:56,600 --> 00:42:00,500
be that normal guy and the
church, nothing special, nothing

623
00:42:00,500 --> 00:42:03,900
important just shows that I've
does, is calling has a big

624
00:42:03,900 --> 00:42:06,900
family, you know, fun to be
around, that's it.

625
00:42:08,800 --> 00:42:14,700
But like, as I so everything
that came at me I was just like,

626
00:42:14,700 --> 00:42:17,400
well okay, you know what?
Plural marriage, it's a true

627
00:42:17,400 --> 00:42:18,300
principle.
I see.

628
00:42:18,400 --> 00:42:22,700
I see it and I see that we
probably shouldn't have gotten

629
00:42:22,700 --> 00:42:24,600
rid of it.
But does that mean that I

630
00:42:24,600 --> 00:42:27,000
personally must?
Well, I don't know.

631
00:42:27,000 --> 00:42:29,900
That's part of the Lord's plan.
Maybe maybe yeah.

632
00:42:29,900 --> 00:42:32,300
And I'm currently I am a
monogamous.

633
00:42:32,300 --> 00:42:39,300
So like I can you can
righteously especially by should

634
00:42:39,300 --> 00:42:44,900
say you can righteously be a
monogamist and go forward into

635
00:42:44,900 --> 00:42:52,600
the Celestial Kingdom unless
Doing so reject, such a

636
00:42:52,600 --> 00:42:56,600
direction from the Lord to you.
If he tells you that you need to

637
00:42:56,600 --> 00:43:01,000
enter plural marriage and you
reject that now you're in

638
00:43:01,000 --> 00:43:04,000
trouble, but if you haven't been
given that opportunity and you

639
00:43:04,008 --> 00:43:06,600
believe in your heart, Bring me
I was pretty clear about this.

640
00:43:07,000 --> 00:43:10,400
That's good enough and I can be
taken care of at some point in

641
00:43:10,408 --> 00:43:13,800
the future.
So I reason, okay, maybe I don't

642
00:43:13,800 --> 00:43:16,500
need to live plural marriage.
Okay, so I don't need to be a

643
00:43:16,500 --> 00:43:18,300
fundamentalist that doesn't have
to take me.

644
00:43:18,400 --> 00:43:23,600
They're Adam, God doctor and
I'll just you know, be kind of

645
00:43:23,600 --> 00:43:25,900
quiet about it.
Maybe I tell my kids you know

646
00:43:26,000 --> 00:43:29,000
but right right.
I don't bring it up in Sunday

647
00:43:29,000 --> 00:43:30,900
school.
I should still be okay.

648
00:43:30,900 --> 00:43:34,900
You know I don't need a don't
need to be a fun of us now and

649
00:43:34,900 --> 00:43:42,200
then it's like re-baptism and I
knew I knew I needed to be

650
00:43:42,200 --> 00:43:44,600
re-baptized or a few.
There were a few times that I

651
00:43:44,607 --> 00:43:47,900
just felt that.
So so so much I need to be

652
00:43:47,900 --> 00:43:56,500
baptized And what for me after I
had gone through a divorce and I

653
00:43:56,500 --> 00:44:01,900
was kind of taking the pieces of
my life and like looking back

654
00:44:02,200 --> 00:44:07,800
and I wanted to be sincere like
I hear guys, you know, who get

655
00:44:07,800 --> 00:44:11,800
divorced, like my ex she was
just crazy, you know.

656
00:44:12,300 --> 00:44:16,300
And and I knew that that wasn't
accountability, you know.

657
00:44:18,000 --> 00:44:21,200
And so I Back and I was like, no
yeah maybe she did something she

658
00:44:21,200 --> 00:44:25,500
shouldn't have but I know that
some of my actions contributed

659
00:44:25,700 --> 00:44:30,100
to that failure if I if I have
to be honest and that is the

660
00:44:30,100 --> 00:44:36,300
truth and and I wanted to work
that out and I knew that I

661
00:44:36,300 --> 00:44:40,700
needed to be re-baptized another
things that I had done that I

662
00:44:40,800 --> 00:44:45,000
couldn't feel right if I could
be baptized again.

663
00:44:46,000 --> 00:44:49,900
But and I knew that the church
wouldn't.

664
00:44:49,900 --> 00:44:53,000
Let me do that.
I drove me crazy.

665
00:44:54,100 --> 00:44:57,900
I went I, you know, I, I think I
told you before when I was, was

666
00:44:57,900 --> 00:45:05,700
on here that I traveled out to
Missouri with, to meet some

667
00:45:05,700 --> 00:45:08,700
friends there, and I felt
strongly that I needed to be

668
00:45:08,700 --> 00:45:10,800
re-baptized.
I even said, like, I think I

669
00:45:10,808 --> 00:45:14,000
need to be re-baptized and then
they're like, okay, great, let's

670
00:45:14,000 --> 00:45:16,500
do it.
And then I just like, I was

671
00:45:16,500 --> 00:45:19,200
stunned and I back down as I
don't think I can do that,

672
00:45:19,200 --> 00:45:21,900
actually.
And then I drove back to Indiana

673
00:45:22,500 --> 00:45:28,200
and it was it was like a I don't
know if it was a couple months

674
00:45:28,200 --> 00:45:31,400
later.
I just had from that moment, I

675
00:45:31,400 --> 00:45:36,600
just had this like Dark Cloud
following me where I just knew,

676
00:45:36,600 --> 00:45:40,300
I wasn't right.
And I knew that the Lord had

677
00:45:40,300 --> 00:45:46,600
told me to rewrite re-baptized,
and and I hadn't done it and And

678
00:45:47,100 --> 00:45:50,500
I one night, I prayed, I said,
okay.

679
00:45:50,900 --> 00:45:55,700
Okay I'll do it.
Please don't make me carry all

680
00:45:55,700 --> 00:46:00,900
this anymore and it was like at
that moment, the heavens just

681
00:46:00,900 --> 00:46:06,400
kind of lightened up and and I
just felt like that Darkness.

682
00:46:06,400 --> 00:46:10,700
Go away even before I got
baptized it was as soon as I

683
00:46:10,700 --> 00:46:14,900
said I'll do it.
I'm sorry I ran away, I'll do

684
00:46:14,900 --> 00:46:19,500
it.
That was when I became clear and

685
00:46:19,500 --> 00:46:23,500
I called him up and I said,
okay, I want to read the be

686
00:46:23,500 --> 00:46:28,500
re-baptized.
I'm serious about it and and I

687
00:46:29,100 --> 00:46:34,900
went out there.
I was re-baptized on Easter

688
00:46:34,900 --> 00:46:38,900
weekend of 2020.
Okay.

689
00:46:38,900 --> 00:46:44,800
And I have to say that is the
That is one of the most

690
00:46:44,800 --> 00:46:51,200
meaningful and important moments
of my life because I did feel

691
00:46:51,500 --> 00:46:55,900
that weight wash off of me, and
I did feel that.

692
00:46:56,000 --> 00:47:01,900
And I tell you it is, it was a
hinge point for my life

693
00:47:01,900 --> 00:47:09,500
afterwards, it was very soon
after that, I met my wife.

694
00:47:11,500 --> 00:47:16,000
And we got remarried, she's
about to and the next couple

695
00:47:16,000 --> 00:47:19,600
months here, sometime soon.
She's about to give birth to our

696
00:47:19,600 --> 00:47:23,900
second daughter whoo-hoo.
Very excited about this.

697
00:47:24,400 --> 00:47:30,500
And, you know, I had gone from
after my divorce struggling with

698
00:47:30,500 --> 00:47:35,000
this deep depression loneliness,
feeling that I had lost my

699
00:47:35,000 --> 00:47:42,600
opportunity to have a family and
You just total darkness, I made

700
00:47:42,600 --> 00:47:48,400
that decision.
As re-baptized found the perfect

701
00:47:48,400 --> 00:47:54,200
woman, have this growing family
and it all just started coming

702
00:47:54,200 --> 00:47:57,600
really quickly and I know that
it goes off to following the

703
00:47:57,600 --> 00:48:01,000
Savior, whether or not it was
scary for me whether or not, I

704
00:48:01,008 --> 00:48:06,500
knew what that would mean.
I knew I had to do that and I

705
00:48:06,500 --> 00:48:10,800
had tried to run from it so much
that when I actually, Ed and and

706
00:48:10,800 --> 00:48:14,000
did it.
It became all of them were clear

707
00:48:14,000 --> 00:48:17,600
to me, that it was the right
thing for me to do and I can see

708
00:48:17,600 --> 00:48:20,600
that.
And and every blessing that I've

709
00:48:20,600 --> 00:48:25,000
experienced in my life since
then has come as a direct result

710
00:48:25,000 --> 00:48:27,400
of the decision to do that on
that day.

711
00:48:27,400 --> 00:48:34,400
You know, in this is this is a
side note because in my case it

712
00:48:34,400 --> 00:48:40,800
wasn't re-baptism but I think
the Lord It puts us in those

713
00:48:40,800 --> 00:48:45,000
situations.
Wanting and expecting that we

714
00:48:45,000 --> 00:48:50,800
act on the promptings, we get
and too often instead of being

715
00:48:50,800 --> 00:48:56,000
diligent and doing what we're
supposed to.

716
00:48:56,500 --> 00:49:00,700
When we're asked we run, we fall
into the Jonah trap right where

717
00:49:00,700 --> 00:49:03,500
we're like that.
Well I'll just kind of Mosey my

718
00:49:03,500 --> 00:49:06,800
way over here and we'll forget
about any of this.

719
00:49:07,100 --> 00:49:09,900
I really thought that living the
gospel would be a lot easier,

720
00:49:10,000 --> 00:49:11,800
right?
Right.

721
00:49:12,100 --> 00:49:16,400
And and, you know, I shared with
you here, a few minutes ago

722
00:49:16,400 --> 00:49:20,900
before we were recording and
I'll share it publicly very soon

723
00:49:20,900 --> 00:49:27,200
when I roll out, some new stuff.
There was a time when early on

724
00:49:27,200 --> 00:49:31,000
about six months in to this
podcast, where I was, like,

725
00:49:31,700 --> 00:49:36,300
maybe the price is too steep,
maybe I shouldn't be doing this,

726
00:49:36,900 --> 00:49:40,800
and I had to wrestle with myself
a little bit.

727
00:49:41,100 --> 00:49:45,800
Not much a little bit to keep
going.

728
00:49:46,900 --> 00:49:51,500
But once I committed like nope
this is what I was asked to do.

729
00:49:51,500 --> 00:49:53,200
I'm going to do it, come hell or
high water?

730
00:49:53,300 --> 00:49:56,600
Even if it's just me, an eight
other listeners, whatever I'm

731
00:49:56,600 --> 00:50:00,900
going to do this.
You know, it's have this podcast

732
00:50:00,900 --> 00:50:04,600
that I get in touch with with my
wife.

733
00:50:04,600 --> 00:50:09,600
Tanya, you know, she comes into
the family and then it's just

734
00:50:09,600 --> 00:50:14,200
been one blessing after another
and too often, I think we're

735
00:50:14,200 --> 00:50:17,700
scared of the change, right?
When it comes right down to it,

736
00:50:17,700 --> 00:50:21,000
the Lord asks us to do something
and we look at the change in

737
00:50:21,000 --> 00:50:23,100
order like who I don't want any
part of that.

738
00:50:23,100 --> 00:50:25,000
That's the unknown.
That's spooky.

739
00:50:25,000 --> 00:50:28,700
I don't want to do that.
And it made me think of another

740
00:50:28,700 --> 00:50:32,500
experience.
I had when we adopted our twins,

741
00:50:32,800 --> 00:50:36,100
gosh over, you know, just over
17 years ago.

742
00:50:36,100 --> 00:50:41,200
Now we had to become foster
parents first even though we

743
00:50:41,200 --> 00:50:44,100
already had four kids, we had to
be foster parents.

744
00:50:44,100 --> 00:50:47,400
So we have to go through
parenting classes being taught

745
00:50:47,400 --> 00:50:51,500
by somebody who never had
children which for anyone who

746
00:50:51,500 --> 00:50:55,100
hasn't done that.
Oh are you missing out on just

747
00:50:55,100 --> 00:50:58,500
the most special of experiences?
Has anyway.

748
00:51:00,300 --> 00:51:04,500
One night, I'm getting ready to
leave and I'm talking to a guy,

749
00:51:04,500 --> 00:51:06,300
I know who's in the class as
well.

750
00:51:07,000 --> 00:51:11,900
We just happened to bump into
each other there and the lady

751
00:51:11,900 --> 00:51:16,600
who teaches the class comes up
and she says, hey, we have to go

752
00:51:18,200 --> 00:51:20,800
get a kid out of some horrible
circumstances.

753
00:51:21,500 --> 00:51:25,100
And if you guys go with us
because there's only one copy

754
00:51:25,100 --> 00:51:30,000
available, Will sign your paper
and you don't have to come back

755
00:51:30,200 --> 00:51:33,400
and I'm like, yes, ma'am.
Sign me up.

756
00:51:33,700 --> 00:51:38,100
I'll do that.
So we go this house Benjamin and

757
00:51:38,100 --> 00:51:43,000
it is absolutely horrific.
It's a horror show.

758
00:51:44,300 --> 00:51:48,000
There's feces on the wall.
There's moldy food everywhere.

759
00:51:48,600 --> 00:51:52,300
There is not a lot of food in
the house.

760
00:51:52,700 --> 00:51:56,500
That is good to eat.
You can tell these kids are in

761
00:51:56,500 --> 00:52:02,100
diapers that they've had on for
probably all day long unbathed

762
00:52:02,200 --> 00:52:08,100
stinks like I remember walking
in thinking, I need a tetanus

763
00:52:08,100 --> 00:52:11,100
shot when I'm done in here,
right, like it was that bad.

764
00:52:13,100 --> 00:52:16,000
And as they're taking this
child, it was the most

765
00:52:16,000 --> 00:52:17,800
heart-wrenching thing I ever
saw.

766
00:52:19,600 --> 00:52:24,500
Despite us telling the child who
was like five years old, not

767
00:52:24,500 --> 00:52:27,500
potty trained yet.
At five, we're going to get put

768
00:52:27,500 --> 00:52:30,500
you in some place where there's
food and it's safe.

769
00:52:31,700 --> 00:52:36,300
They still struggle to stay in
that condition and I thought,

770
00:52:37,700 --> 00:52:40,400
that's probably pretty
appropriate to how the Lord

771
00:52:40,400 --> 00:52:43,300
looks sometimes.
When he asks us to make changes,

772
00:52:43,400 --> 00:52:46,000
right?
Whether that's re-baptism or

773
00:52:46,000 --> 00:52:50,000
anything else will fight and
Claw to stay in a Situation,

774
00:52:50,000 --> 00:52:52,900
even if it's bad because it's
familiar.

775
00:52:53,600 --> 00:52:56,700
And I think that's where that
Faith really has to kick in.

776
00:52:56,700 --> 00:52:59,700
And and in order for us to
embrace that change a little

777
00:52:59,700 --> 00:53:08,000
bit, Yeah.
Yeah, you know when when I got

778
00:53:08,000 --> 00:53:15,300
re-baptized or just after, I was
talking to a friend and, you

779
00:53:15,300 --> 00:53:18,400
know, they said that the reason
that they came into

780
00:53:18,400 --> 00:53:23,800
fundamentalism as they, they
realized, you know, they said

781
00:53:23,800 --> 00:53:30,400
that they realized that the
church wasn't secretly doing the

782
00:53:30,400 --> 00:53:33,100
right.
Thing, you know, like he kind of

783
00:53:33,107 --> 00:53:38,400
thought like well maybe they're
teaching the higher things of

784
00:53:38,400 --> 00:53:42,000
the Kingdom but they're just
kind of doing another way that

785
00:53:42,000 --> 00:53:43,800
most people won't notice you
know.

786
00:53:43,800 --> 00:53:47,400
And so he kept us trying to like
hyper analyze every conference

787
00:53:47,400 --> 00:53:52,300
talk to like figure it out and
then he just after a while that

788
00:53:52,300 --> 00:53:54,900
I realized like nope that's
that's not what's happening.

789
00:53:55,000 --> 00:54:00,800
And then you know he said that
he connected the Joseph Smith

790
00:54:00,900 --> 00:54:05,100
You can't change the ordinances
mature changing the ordinances

791
00:54:05,100 --> 00:54:08,800
and said, all right, I need to,
I need to go elsewhere to suit

792
00:54:08,800 --> 00:54:15,600
the fulness of the gospel.
And I told him, you know, I was

793
00:54:15,600 --> 00:54:18,300
looking for the basics, the
gospel.

794
00:54:18,900 --> 00:54:23,600
I wanted Faith repentance and
baptism and they wouldn't let me

795
00:54:23,600 --> 00:54:26,100
have it.
Like they wouldn't let me have

796
00:54:26,100 --> 00:54:33,500
that ISM and, you know, yeah, I
think like Like you had a

797
00:54:34,400 --> 00:54:39,500
Christina Rossetti on a while
back and she kind of talked

798
00:54:39,500 --> 00:54:43,500
about there's one things you
said that like stuck with me.

799
00:54:43,500 --> 00:54:48,500
Is she said that she has people
ask her like how to keep people

800
00:54:48,700 --> 00:54:53,000
leaving the church and becoming
fundamentalist and her answer

801
00:54:53,000 --> 00:54:56,500
was stopped.
Excommunicating them right?

802
00:54:56,500 --> 00:55:00,600
Yeah quit kicking them out of
the church, right?

803
00:55:01,700 --> 00:55:05,700
And you know, this is a, you
know, free piece of advice that

804
00:55:05,700 --> 00:55:07,600
no one in the church will ever
take.

805
00:55:08,600 --> 00:55:12,700
Let people be re-baptized like
if you want to keep people.

806
00:55:12,900 --> 00:55:15,400
This is these are basics of the
Gospel.

807
00:55:16,000 --> 00:55:19,400
Yes isn't this?
Isn't the higher things?

808
00:55:19,600 --> 00:55:23,800
This isn't the this is like this
is the basics.

809
00:55:24,100 --> 00:55:29,100
We should be baptizing people
for remission of their sins and

810
00:55:29,100 --> 00:55:32,500
this was taught by This was
taught by the early Brethren.

811
00:55:32,500 --> 00:55:38,200
This was taught by Joseph Smith.
There's evidence that Joseph

812
00:55:38,200 --> 00:55:42,200
Smith and Nauvoo required the
entire church to go.

813
00:55:42,200 --> 00:55:45,500
Be re-baptized really?
Can you explain that?

814
00:55:46,900 --> 00:55:53,700
That is a reference that I was
looking into.

815
00:55:53,800 --> 00:55:57,700
So, I am, I do apologize, but it
was D Michael Quinn.

816
00:55:58,200 --> 00:56:03,800
Who said that he had seen a
letter that indicated that

817
00:56:03,800 --> 00:56:07,100
Joseph had asked the church to
be re-baptized in Abu.

818
00:56:07,500 --> 00:56:11,400
So people might fight about that
if you want and I, you know, I'm

819
00:56:11,400 --> 00:56:16,000
sure we can kind of dig that up.
That's as far as I got into it,

820
00:56:16,300 --> 00:56:19,600
For that day, Michael Quinn
reference.

821
00:56:21,400 --> 00:56:26,300
But we do know from the history
of the church that in the Nauvoo

822
00:56:26,300 --> 00:56:32,000
Temple they were doing baptism
is for healing. so you know

823
00:56:32,000 --> 00:56:36,800
we've got that and you know
Brigham Young said that Joseph

824
00:56:36,800 --> 00:56:42,400
Smith told the church that they
could be re-baptized that we

825
00:56:42,400 --> 00:56:49,100
baptism is available and I am
one who if Brigham Young says

826
00:56:49,100 --> 00:56:52,300
that Joseph Smith told him
something, I believe the Brigham

827
00:56:52,300 --> 00:56:56,900
Young is telling the truth about
that and some people don't feel

828
00:56:56,900 --> 00:57:02,800
that way but I do And so yeah,
this was this was from the

829
00:57:03,400 --> 00:57:08,600
pretty early in the restoration
we had this and now that kind of

830
00:57:08,600 --> 00:57:11,700
like takes me back, a lot of
times, we blame the government

831
00:57:13,500 --> 00:57:17,600
and we say like well the
government made us stop plural,

832
00:57:17,600 --> 00:57:20,600
marriage.
And and I think that we should

833
00:57:20,600 --> 00:57:24,700
probably start saying that
instead of saying the

834
00:57:24,700 --> 00:57:29,000
government, we should start
saying Babylon because it isn't

835
00:57:29,000 --> 00:57:33,000
just Like the government, like
the government didn't make it

836
00:57:33,000 --> 00:57:37,300
stop doing re-baptism, they
don't really like the church

837
00:57:37,300 --> 00:57:39,800
gave that one away for free, you
know, there wasn't any

838
00:57:39,900 --> 00:57:47,900
persecution, it's Babylon.
And when the church subjected

839
00:57:47,900 --> 00:57:52,200
themselves to the government,
they were subjecting themselves

840
00:57:52,200 --> 00:57:55,200
to Babylon.
They were subjecting themselves

841
00:57:55,200 --> 00:57:59,800
to the Beast.
Flee satanic system.

842
00:58:00,000 --> 00:58:06,600
That runs this world and the
reason that we lost re-baptism

843
00:58:07,400 --> 00:58:12,900
isn't because the government
told the church they had to stop

844
00:58:13,300 --> 00:58:17,900
it was because re baptism is
spiritually fortifying it

845
00:58:17,900 --> 00:58:23,900
spiritually strengthening its
purifying, and it's a tool.

846
00:58:23,900 --> 00:58:29,000
It's a simple tool that people
can use to become closer to God,

847
00:58:29,600 --> 00:58:32,600
and And Babylon doesn't want
that.

848
00:58:33,100 --> 00:58:36,200
Like, that's why like of we're
looking at just a spiritual

849
00:58:36,200 --> 00:58:39,600
level here.
That's why we baptism is taking

850
00:58:39,600 --> 00:58:42,500
away.
That's why all these things get

851
00:58:42,500 --> 00:58:48,000
taken away and that's why you
know, even if people are

852
00:58:48,000 --> 00:58:51,800
uncomfortable with poor my
image, they feel like they can't

853
00:58:51,800 --> 00:58:55,300
do it.
It doesn't matter that it was

854
00:58:55,300 --> 00:58:57,200
plural, marriage, that was taken
away.

855
00:58:57,400 --> 00:59:01,900
It was matters that anything at
all was taken away, right?

856
00:59:01,900 --> 00:59:05,000
That's what matters.
Because if you can give up

857
00:59:05,000 --> 00:59:08,000
anything you've kind of.
It's just a matter of time as to

858
00:59:08,000 --> 00:59:10,100
whether or not you've given up
everything else.

859
00:59:11,200 --> 00:59:15,600
I couldn't agree more.
I think I remember.

860
00:59:16,500 --> 00:59:20,500
It's funny how my life revolves
around you or my some of my

861
00:59:20,500 --> 00:59:23,200
pivotal moments revolve around
the game of football.

862
00:59:23,900 --> 00:59:30,200
I remember I was it was, it was
summer and it was, you know

863
00:59:30,800 --> 00:59:34,800
early practicing right to add a
kind of things, which I don't

864
00:59:34,800 --> 00:59:39,400
know if they do them anymore.
But we had we had two a days and

865
00:59:40,900 --> 00:59:44,900
Just In the Heat of the day we
were running ladders all the

866
00:59:44,900 --> 00:59:49,000
way, all three hundred feet 100
yards, up and back up and back.

867
00:59:50,700 --> 00:59:56,800
And I remember I had this Coach
Jerry Lunsford was his name, I

868
00:59:56,808 --> 00:59:59,300
mean he was a short little guy,
but he was Stout.

869
00:59:59,300 --> 01:00:02,600
He was an Oregon logger before
he became a teacher.

870
01:00:03,000 --> 01:00:06,200
I mean just look like he could
chew on steel for fun, kind of a

871
01:00:06,200 --> 01:00:08,800
guy.
And I remember as we're, you

872
01:00:08,800 --> 01:00:11,900
know, running back and forth out
of shape because we've been

873
01:00:11,900 --> 01:00:16,200
messing around all summer.
He said, if you quit once, it

874
01:00:16,200 --> 01:00:20,400
gets easier to quit twice and
then if you quit twice, It's a

875
01:00:20,408 --> 01:00:24,900
habit and I think this applies
to anything including the

876
01:00:24,900 --> 01:00:27,600
gospel, right?
If you're willing to quit on

877
01:00:27,600 --> 01:00:32,000
something once well quitting
something else isn't so hard the

878
01:00:32,000 --> 01:00:33,800
next time around.
Right.

879
01:00:34,200 --> 01:00:38,100
And so I agree with you.
I think we have to be a little

880
01:00:38,100 --> 01:00:43,000
bit Fierce and defending these
doctrines because they do

881
01:00:43,000 --> 01:00:45,300
matter.
They were revealed by the Lord.

882
01:00:45,300 --> 01:00:49,700
Through Joseph Smith expounded
on by Brigham Young for a a

883
01:00:49,707 --> 01:00:53,500
reason.
And if we just think we know

884
01:00:53,500 --> 01:00:56,800
better, we put ourselves into
some serious Jeopardy.

885
01:00:57,900 --> 01:01:01,800
Yeah, yeah.
It's a it's a true arrogance

886
01:01:01,800 --> 01:01:05,700
because, you know, and I find
this a lot with in discussions

887
01:01:05,700 --> 01:01:10,400
about like the atom God
Doctrine, where people who

888
01:01:10,400 --> 01:01:17,600
haven't really haven't read
anything and cysts that oh it

889
01:01:17,600 --> 01:01:22,000
was just this crazy idea that
Brigham at the church they

890
01:01:22,100 --> 01:01:26,700
straighten that out.
And you know it was just wrong,

891
01:01:27,000 --> 01:01:30,100
you know and And then I'm like,
okay well what about the lecture

892
01:01:30,100 --> 01:01:33,200
at the veil?
It's like, what about, you know,

893
01:01:33,200 --> 01:01:35,800
other than you you go through
all the stuff and it's like and

894
01:01:35,800 --> 01:01:41,900
they don't really know and I
think re-baptism is the same

895
01:01:41,900 --> 01:01:43,700
thing.
You know, if you listen to I

896
01:01:43,700 --> 01:01:47,000
think even General authority of
the church they would just say

897
01:01:47,000 --> 01:01:50,200
oh well you know we didn't have
as much light and knowledge like

898
01:01:50,200 --> 01:01:57,200
they want to just kind of push
that under the rug and you know,

899
01:01:57,700 --> 01:02:02,100
Four members of the church for
anywhere else, you have to have

900
01:02:02,100 --> 01:02:06,300
integrity and you can't let
people do that to you.

901
01:02:07,000 --> 01:02:10,700
You can just let you know, okay?
Well, if it was something they

902
01:02:10,700 --> 01:02:15,600
didn't understand, you know?
Why was Brigham Young so adamant

903
01:02:15,600 --> 01:02:20,000
that it was important that we do
this, you know, like why did

904
01:02:20,000 --> 01:02:22,400
they have?
It's the set up for people to do

905
01:02:22,400 --> 01:02:25,600
and temples why?
You know why did Brigham Young

906
01:02:25,600 --> 01:02:28,600
and and John Taylor?
Wire it before.

907
01:02:28,600 --> 01:02:34,300
We receive our endowments like
why and get answers those

908
01:02:34,300 --> 01:02:37,200
questions and you know a fair
warning.

909
01:02:38,200 --> 01:02:39,900
There's a good chance.
They're just going to ask for

910
01:02:39,900 --> 01:02:46,400
you negate you if you do that
because They don't have answers

911
01:02:46,400 --> 01:02:52,100
to give but you still have to,
like, stand your ground and you

912
01:02:52,100 --> 01:02:55,500
don't just don't just waffle,
you know?

913
01:02:56,200 --> 01:02:59,300
Really.
This is your salvation, you're

914
01:02:59,300 --> 01:03:02,500
dealing with.
It's worth taking seriously.

915
01:03:02,500 --> 01:03:08,000
It's worth like knowing
thoroughly and not just going

916
01:03:08,000 --> 01:03:11,300
along with whatever kind of
sounds good.

917
01:03:12,600 --> 01:03:18,900
Absolutely.
I the other thing that That I

918
01:03:18,908 --> 01:03:21,100
would say.
And this goes back to that lady,

919
01:03:21,100 --> 01:03:23,700
you talked, about you
encountered on your mission,

920
01:03:25,700 --> 01:03:29,500
Don't get me wrong, we baptized
all of our children when they

921
01:03:29,500 --> 01:03:33,300
were eight, right?
And then the ones who came along

922
01:03:33,300 --> 01:03:36,700
with us on this fundamentalist
Journey, we re baptize them as

923
01:03:36,700 --> 01:03:40,100
well.
But really, what do you know at

924
01:03:40,100 --> 01:03:44,200
8 years old?
I mean, don't get me wrong.

925
01:03:45,400 --> 01:03:48,700
I've seen determination and
commitment out of an

926
01:03:48,700 --> 01:03:52,300
eight-year-old but you're eight,
right?

927
01:03:52,400 --> 01:03:57,800
And so as time goes along,
You're not done, maturing right?

928
01:03:57,800 --> 01:04:00,000
And so you're going to make
mistakes.

929
01:04:00,000 --> 01:04:03,900
You're going to waver somewhat
here and there and so there,

930
01:04:05,800 --> 01:04:09,900
This idea of well, it's you did
it when you were eight and

931
01:04:09,900 --> 01:04:12,600
that's good enough.
I don't know, man.

932
01:04:13,000 --> 01:04:18,200
I think as you mature, as you
grow as you make mistakes, you

933
01:04:18,200 --> 01:04:22,000
will repent.
The Lord has given us this great

934
01:04:22,000 --> 01:04:26,900
opportunity to go back into the
Waters of baptism, recommit

935
01:04:26,900 --> 01:04:30,200
ourselves.
Have those sins washed away and

936
01:04:30,200 --> 01:04:32,500
then come out again and go
forward.

937
01:04:32,900 --> 01:04:38,800
I love those old accounts where
where, my wife's family goes

938
01:04:39,200 --> 01:04:48,000
quite a ways back in the LDS
church, and she, she has this

939
01:04:48,000 --> 01:04:53,300
one journal and one of her
great, great, whatever talks

940
01:04:53,300 --> 01:04:55,400
about it.
And he was called as bishop.

941
01:04:55,900 --> 01:04:59,600
And he just writes in his
journal was called as Bishop

942
01:04:59,600 --> 01:05:04,300
today.
I desire the Waters of

943
01:05:04,300 --> 01:05:10,600
re-baptism before I begin my
Ministry and I'm like yeah.

944
01:05:10,600 --> 01:05:16,000
And and and the weird thing is
been is that as I can remember,

945
01:05:16,000 --> 01:05:19,600
being in the LDS church and
being called into the bishop

946
01:05:19,600 --> 01:05:23,300
brick or being called as Elders,
Quorum president and going mad.

947
01:05:24,200 --> 01:05:28,900
When it be cool if I could just
be baptized again and start this

948
01:05:28,900 --> 01:05:33,400
whole thing out fresh and and
cleaned up and I always thought

949
01:05:33,400 --> 01:05:36,900
what a silly idea that is right
and then lo and behold I

950
01:05:36,900 --> 01:05:40,500
discover fundamentalism I'm like
oh well okay let's maybe not

951
01:05:40,500 --> 01:05:45,000
that silly after all but I just
find it's one of those things

952
01:05:45,000 --> 01:05:50,900
that It kind of boggles my mind
that it was done away with.

953
01:05:50,900 --> 01:05:53,400
Right?
Because if you worried about

954
01:05:53,400 --> 01:05:56,700
fundamentalism and
fundamentalists, there's nothing

955
01:05:56,700 --> 01:05:59,100
in there.
That's really fundamentalist,

956
01:05:59,100 --> 01:06:00,600
right?
You're not talking, like you

957
01:06:00,600 --> 01:06:02,900
said, you're not talking about
Adam God, you're not talking

958
01:06:02,900 --> 01:06:06,900
about plural marriage.
You're talking about a baptism.

959
01:06:08,600 --> 01:06:12,000
Yeah, yeah.
Like I said there's a I mean you

960
01:06:12,000 --> 01:06:17,900
know I kind of see clearly now
and I know that I'm on the path,

961
01:06:17,900 --> 01:06:23,300
the Lord wants Madrid to be on,
but there is a moment where if

962
01:06:23,300 --> 01:06:27,200
the church had, let me have
re-baptism, they probably would

963
01:06:27,200 --> 01:06:31,200
have kept me for at least quite
a bit longer, you know, then

964
01:06:31,200 --> 01:06:38,800
than they did.
And yeah, but you know, now when

965
01:06:38,800 --> 01:06:43,000
people study these things,
they've got to come to us

966
01:06:43,300 --> 01:06:46,100
because no one else is doing it,
you know.

967
01:06:46,100 --> 01:06:50,100
And I think, you know, as with
all ordinances, you should be

968
01:06:50,100 --> 01:06:53,600
prayer for all the person you
seek to administer.

969
01:06:53,600 --> 01:06:55,500
Those things ought to have
authority.

970
01:06:55,500 --> 01:06:58,000
They ought to be a faithful
person.

971
01:06:59,000 --> 01:07:01,900
You know, you shouldn't just go
to just anybody.

972
01:07:02,300 --> 01:07:05,600
There should be priesthood
Authority and you should be

973
01:07:05,600 --> 01:07:09,700
confident about that.
But anyone, you know, listening

974
01:07:09,700 --> 01:07:12,900
to this, who has had those kinds
of thoughts that like, you and I

975
01:07:12,908 --> 01:07:16,500
describe where you've had those
moments where maybe you're

976
01:07:16,500 --> 01:07:19,900
having kind of a new start to
your life, you've moved to a new

977
01:07:19,900 --> 01:07:24,500
place, you've gotten married you
become a parent, you know,

978
01:07:24,500 --> 01:07:28,100
there's some way in which you're
engaging in something new.

979
01:07:28,800 --> 01:07:34,200
It is part of the Lord's work
for you and you want to do that

980
01:07:34,300 --> 01:07:41,500
with a rededication to Christ or
be baptism is that's it serves

981
01:07:41,500 --> 01:07:47,800
that purpose for you.
And I would encourage anyone.

982
01:07:47,800 --> 01:07:50,700
Who's had those thoughts and
feelings that not to push those

983
01:07:50,700 --> 01:07:52,300
away.
That's the spirit of the Lord

984
01:07:52,300 --> 01:07:57,100
speaking to you and embrace that
and ask for direction, until you

985
01:07:57,100 --> 01:07:59,900
can find someone who can
administer that to you.

986
01:08:01,100 --> 01:08:05,700
Yeah, and I can bear testimony
that when if you're feeling that

987
01:08:05,700 --> 01:08:09,600
and you go seeking, you'll find
it, you'll find them, right?

988
01:08:09,600 --> 01:08:16,000
And and If you're a Mormon, I'm
going to say this.

989
01:08:16,800 --> 01:08:20,399
And this, this is going to, this
is going to get, could get me in

990
01:08:20,399 --> 01:08:24,500
some trouble with some folks
that aren't fundamentalist, but

991
01:08:24,500 --> 01:08:27,899
I'll say it.
Anyway, if you're Mormon and

992
01:08:27,899 --> 01:08:34,500
you're striving to live your
religion, you are entitled to

993
01:08:34,500 --> 01:08:37,899
Blessings as being a citizen in
the kingdom of God.

994
01:08:39,000 --> 01:08:45,800
And to sell yourself, short is a
sad sad thing because there are

995
01:08:45,800 --> 01:08:48,899
so many blessings to be had
through living the restored

996
01:08:48,899 --> 01:08:56,000
gospel, you just have to have
the desire and the commitment to

997
01:08:56,000 --> 01:08:59,800
seek, after him to get those
things because they're out there

998
01:09:00,000 --> 01:09:03,500
and they're life-changing and
they make life sweet.

999
01:09:03,800 --> 01:09:11,800
And they're those little moments
in life, where Where it just

1000
01:09:11,800 --> 01:09:14,600
makes all the toil.
We have to go through as Mormons

1001
01:09:14,600 --> 01:09:19,600
worthwhile.
The Lord said, you know, you

1002
01:09:19,600 --> 01:09:22,700
know, the power of God is made
manifest through the ordinances

1003
01:09:23,600 --> 01:09:26,800
partake in that.
Go forward with that.

1004
01:09:26,800 --> 01:09:32,100
Didn't allow yourself to taste
that because the fruit of it is

1005
01:09:32,100 --> 01:09:36,500
sweet.
Yeah, it is.

1006
01:09:37,100 --> 01:09:41,399
And I was trying to find as you
were speaking.

1007
01:09:41,399 --> 01:09:46,200
I was looking for a reference,
but because I will just skate,

1008
01:09:46,200 --> 01:09:47,899
man.
Oh, I was looking in the, The

1009
01:09:47,899 --> 01:09:57,100
Book of John but Christ speaks
about the Pharisees and he

1010
01:09:57,100 --> 01:10:01,700
rebukes them and I says, you
know, you've hidden the key of

1011
01:10:01,700 --> 01:10:05,700
knowledge.
You entered Then yourself and

1012
01:10:05,700 --> 01:10:10,700
those who would have entered,
you've hindered, and the

1013
01:10:10,700 --> 01:10:15,300
leaders, the LDS church or under
condemnation for that they are

1014
01:10:15,300 --> 01:10:18,200
in that position.
They've hidden the key of

1015
01:10:18,200 --> 01:10:22,300
knowledge and they haven't
entered in to themselves.

1016
01:10:22,600 --> 01:10:26,800
And those who have tried to
they've hindered, they stood in

1017
01:10:27,200 --> 01:10:33,500
the way of them and that's not,
you know, for such a long time.

1018
01:10:33,500 --> 01:10:36,900
I just sort of I wasn't aware
that there were other people out

1019
01:10:36,900 --> 01:10:40,100
there.
I wasn't aware that priesthood

1020
01:10:40,100 --> 01:10:45,600
could exist outside the church,
and I just thought, like, well

1021
01:10:45,600 --> 01:10:47,200
I'll just live as much the
gospels.

1022
01:10:47,200 --> 01:10:53,500
I can, you know, but if anyone's
out there like, it's there, no

1023
01:10:53,700 --> 01:10:58,700
seek ask the Lord to lead, you
know, it's there for you.

1024
01:10:58,800 --> 01:11:04,800
And if people are denying, you
What the scriptures are offering

1025
01:11:04,800 --> 01:11:09,400
you and what the Prophet Joseph
Smith and bring young and what

1026
01:11:09,400 --> 01:11:13,600
those, you know, early Brethren
were offering and enjoying

1027
01:11:14,000 --> 01:11:15,900
someone standing in the way of
that.

1028
01:11:17,400 --> 01:11:21,700
Doesn't matter that they were
fine and costly apparel.

1029
01:11:22,800 --> 01:11:27,100
It doesn't matter that they have
very important titles.

1030
01:11:27,600 --> 01:11:30,000
It doesn't matter that they have
a lot of people giving them

1031
01:11:30,000 --> 01:11:33,700
money and attention.
If they're trying to withhold

1032
01:11:34,100 --> 01:11:39,200
those things from you, you have
to look elsewhere and that can

1033
01:11:39,200 --> 01:11:43,000
be really hard thing for a lot
of people, but it's like that.

1034
01:11:43,000 --> 01:11:45,900
That's just what you have to do
and I encourage anyone out there

1035
01:11:45,900 --> 01:11:48,200
to do it.
Awesome.

1036
01:11:48,600 --> 01:11:52,300
I think it's important to that.
That I just mentioned that.

1037
01:11:53,300 --> 01:11:59,400
Really outside of gospels
Scholars, so, to speak.

1038
01:11:59,400 --> 01:12:02,500
And when I say, Scholars, I'm
not talking about anybody with

1039
01:12:02,500 --> 01:12:04,800
letters behind their name,
right?

1040
01:12:04,800 --> 01:12:08,200
I feel like that that doesn't
doesn't make you a gospel

1041
01:12:08,200 --> 01:12:10,000
scholar.
I'm just talking about people

1042
01:12:10,000 --> 01:12:12,200
that are really well read on the
history.

1043
01:12:12,200 --> 01:12:17,500
This is a foreign concept all
over again, right?

1044
01:12:17,500 --> 01:12:20,500
I would say that you could
probably even go to most stake

1045
01:12:20,500 --> 01:12:23,800
presidents.
And go tell me about ISM.

1046
01:12:24,400 --> 01:12:26,200
And he would say exactly what
you'd said.

1047
01:12:26,200 --> 01:12:29,400
He'd be like, well, you haven't
been excommunicated, have you?

1048
01:12:29,400 --> 01:12:31,200
I don't think it's on anybody's
radar.

1049
01:12:31,700 --> 01:12:35,300
So I think we're at a point now,
where I don't think many people

1050
01:12:35,300 --> 01:12:37,800
are intentionally withholding
it.

1051
01:12:38,200 --> 01:12:41,900
I just don't think most people
know about it and that it's out

1052
01:12:41,900 --> 01:12:44,800
there, you know what I mean?
Yeah, yeah.

1053
01:12:45,200 --> 01:12:50,100
And that's, that's fair and they
haven't Dug deep that are

1054
01:12:50,100 --> 01:12:54,000
they're not aware of it and you
know it doesn't take a lot of

1055
01:12:54,000 --> 01:12:59,000
studying you know no look if go
get on Google get on Ogden crowd

1056
01:12:59,000 --> 01:13:03,500
talk huh.
Oh Kevin keeps that up spend

1057
01:13:03,500 --> 01:13:05,800
spend a few hours on there and
then you'll know more about the

1058
01:13:05,800 --> 01:13:09,400
gospel then your stake president
does sure.

1059
01:13:10,300 --> 01:13:16,600
You know people who want to dig
into these things, the resources

1060
01:13:16,600 --> 01:13:19,700
are there you know go out and
find it but But that was

1061
01:13:19,700 --> 01:13:23,500
something that I found, you
know, when it kind of came out

1062
01:13:23,500 --> 01:13:27,200
that I was a fundamentalist and
my stake president came to you

1063
01:13:27,208 --> 01:13:32,400
know confirm rumors that were
going on about and asking me

1064
01:13:32,400 --> 01:13:39,400
questions.
And I love and respect him.

1065
01:13:39,400 --> 01:13:42,800
If he ever hears this.
I want him to know.

1066
01:13:42,800 --> 01:13:45,000
I still love and respect and
he's a good man.

1067
01:13:46,900 --> 01:13:50,900
It just seemed that didn't take
very long until we were out of

1068
01:13:50,900 --> 01:13:54,800
his depth.
And he's right about the things

1069
01:13:54,800 --> 01:14:00,900
that were talking about and, you
know, and it and the answers

1070
01:14:00,900 --> 01:14:03,900
that he gave him when we were
talking about plural marriage

1071
01:14:04,700 --> 01:14:07,800
and he said, well, like the
church would have been destroyed

1072
01:14:07,800 --> 01:14:11,100
if we hadn't given it up.
He said that.

1073
01:14:11,700 --> 01:14:19,600
So like shocked that someone who
has faith in God could ever say

1074
01:14:20,300 --> 01:14:23,200
right now.
That you know how I like how

1075
01:14:23,200 --> 01:14:25,900
could you say that?
Like if God wants us to do

1076
01:14:25,900 --> 01:14:28,700
something, then he will protect
us.

1077
01:14:28,700 --> 01:14:33,600
And if he doesn't then you know,
if we really believe in God we

1078
01:14:33,600 --> 01:14:37,000
should be willing to face
whatever that means to you know

1079
01:14:37,900 --> 01:14:41,300
like Shadrach Meshach and
Abednego they They were saved by

1080
01:14:41,300 --> 01:14:44,600
God, but before they went into
the furnace, they said, you

1081
01:14:44,600 --> 01:14:50,700
know, but if he has power to
save us, but if, if not, we

1082
01:14:50,700 --> 01:14:53,600
still will not worship.
You know, he said we still won't

1083
01:14:53,600 --> 01:14:58,800
do what you want and you we
should be willing to face death

1084
01:14:58,800 --> 01:15:01,300
if necessary, you know, it's too
bad.

1085
01:15:01,300 --> 01:15:03,700
We don't have a set of
scriptures that maybe has

1086
01:15:03,700 --> 01:15:07,400
something in it, like, I know
God gives nothing to the

1087
01:15:07,400 --> 01:15:09,800
children of men safe.
He shall prepare way you do it.

1088
01:15:09,800 --> 01:15:11,900
I mean it's really too bad.
We don't have something like

1089
01:15:11,900 --> 01:15:14,900
that somewhere.
Stashed in a book that was maybe

1090
01:15:14,900 --> 01:15:18,200
translated from Golden Plates.
I don't know, that's off the top

1091
01:15:18,200 --> 01:15:20,100
of my head.
We had something like that.

1092
01:15:20,200 --> 01:15:25,500
We had something like that and
on top of that fundamentals are

1093
01:15:25,508 --> 01:15:29,400
still still around.
Yeah, government didn't like us.

1094
01:15:29,600 --> 01:15:33,300
We're not, we're not always in
great shape, but we're here.

1095
01:15:33,800 --> 01:15:36,700
Yeah, you know.
So this they would have

1096
01:15:36,700 --> 01:15:39,200
destroyed you like you just keep
going.

1097
01:15:39,500 --> 01:15:41,900
Yeah, no.
Yeah, no, dude.

1098
01:15:41,900 --> 01:15:43,900
I can't, I can't agree with you
more.

1099
01:15:46,800 --> 01:15:51,500
Sometimes I will say, I feel
like and I know other

1100
01:15:51,500 --> 01:15:54,700
fundamentalist of felt like
Rocky right before things get

1101
01:15:54,700 --> 01:15:58,400
good right when he's you know,
spitting blood in the corner a

1102
01:15:58,407 --> 01:16:01,000
little bit.
Right.

1103
01:16:01,100 --> 01:16:04,100
Right.
But but we always get back up

1104
01:16:04,100 --> 01:16:05,800
right?
We always get Cup.

1105
01:16:05,800 --> 01:16:09,700
And that's what we got to do.
If we just have to hold to these

1106
01:16:09,700 --> 01:16:13,400
things with tenacity and with
with love even, right?

1107
01:16:13,400 --> 01:16:17,500
That's the other thing.
I I'm we got to hold on to him

1108
01:16:17,500 --> 01:16:20,200
with love and be approachable a
little bit.

1109
01:16:20,200 --> 01:16:23,900
So when people do find out about
this, we're we're kind of some

1110
01:16:23,900 --> 01:16:26,400
folks that can help and not seem
so spooky.

1111
01:16:27,400 --> 01:16:29,900
Yeah, but but yeah, we're out
there.

1112
01:16:30,300 --> 01:16:33,000
So guy asked you what was it?
Like, I want to compare some

1113
01:16:33,000 --> 01:16:34,900
notes here.
So we're going to Veer off topic

1114
01:16:34,900 --> 01:16:39,600
for just a second.
When when it came out you were a

1115
01:16:39,608 --> 01:16:42,500
fundamentalist.
What was it like inside your

1116
01:16:42,500 --> 01:16:44,400
wart did you get people calling
you?

1117
01:16:45,500 --> 01:16:54,600
Well know I was in a bit of a
strange situation because we

1118
01:16:54,600 --> 01:16:56,700
have been too personal you don't
have to share.

1119
01:16:57,000 --> 01:17:01,500
Oh no it's okay.
I was I was already sort of a

1120
01:17:01,500 --> 01:17:03,500
social outcast.
Okay.

1121
01:17:03,800 --> 01:17:12,400
The time you know that that And
so because of where I live, the

1122
01:17:12,400 --> 01:17:17,600
wards and Stakes are
geographically very large in

1123
01:17:17,600 --> 01:17:23,000
order to get as many people to
into a ward to actually do

1124
01:17:23,000 --> 01:17:25,900
stuff.
Just not a lot of church members

1125
01:17:26,000 --> 01:17:30,000
here.
And as a consequence of that

1126
01:17:30,400 --> 01:17:35,100
after my divorce, I said, well
I'm going to stay near where my

1127
01:17:35,100 --> 01:17:38,400
ex-wife those so that I can Will
be interacting with my son's

1128
01:17:38,400 --> 01:17:43,800
frequently and as a consequence
of that I'm in the same ward as

1129
01:17:43,800 --> 01:17:49,600
my ex-wife and the ward was
already pretty uncomfortable

1130
01:17:49,600 --> 01:17:51,700
with that.
And they had all you know that

1131
01:17:51,700 --> 01:17:59,400
like this is weird for us and so
they kind of went with the like

1132
01:17:59,500 --> 01:18:01,000
single mom.
You know.

1133
01:18:01,400 --> 01:18:04,300
That's a safe bet.
She's the old, fake president's

1134
01:18:04,300 --> 01:18:06,100
daughter.
Really get stick with that,

1135
01:18:06,100 --> 01:18:10,000
that's probably You're you know,
you got a beard.

1136
01:18:10,000 --> 01:18:12,400
You look how weird.
We're just gonna, we're gonna go

1137
01:18:12,400 --> 01:18:16,600
with her.
So I tell people she got the

1138
01:18:16,600 --> 01:18:25,900
church in the divorce, you know?
So Dude, I'll tell you what.

1139
01:18:25,900 --> 01:18:31,700
When so I live in the same
neighborhood, I do did when I

1140
01:18:32,000 --> 01:18:34,400
left the church when I said no
more.

1141
01:18:34,900 --> 01:18:36,900
Okay.
And I was in a pretty high

1142
01:18:36,900 --> 01:18:41,700
calling, I won't say which one
because I want to be gentle, but

1143
01:18:41,900 --> 01:18:44,200
it did cause some ripples,
right?

1144
01:18:45,200 --> 01:18:48,300
So when I go in, and I'm like,
hey, I'm out.

1145
01:18:48,300 --> 01:18:52,400
The first thing my leader tells
me is Is it because you're

1146
01:18:52,400 --> 01:18:55,900
struggling with how the church
treats homosexuals?

1147
01:18:57,100 --> 01:19:01,700
Nope.
He's like he's like oh um

1148
01:19:01,700 --> 01:19:05,800
brother Sanders have you have
you cheated on your wife and I

1149
01:19:05,800 --> 01:19:12,100
was like nope and he's like um
brother Sanders have you found

1150
01:19:12,100 --> 01:19:14,600
some disturbing information?
And I was like, I found

1151
01:19:14,600 --> 01:19:18,600
disturbing information about it
decade ago, that's not it.

1152
01:19:19,300 --> 01:19:23,000
And so I basically go through my
My Spiel of, I think you've went

1153
01:19:23,000 --> 01:19:27,700
too far, right?
You, you've crossed a line from

1154
01:19:27,700 --> 01:19:30,700
my point of view that, you can't
really come back from and this

1155
01:19:30,700 --> 01:19:36,200
was that when they change the
temple, ordinance in 2019 and I

1156
01:19:36,200 --> 01:19:41,000
said, I'm done, you know, before
I could use some mental,

1157
01:19:41,000 --> 01:19:44,000
gymnastics it hurt, but I could
do.

1158
01:19:44,000 --> 01:19:48,400
I could stretch that far, but I
feel like my stretching is done.

1159
01:19:48,400 --> 01:19:51,500
Thanks, thanks for playing.
I'm out.

1160
01:19:52,100 --> 01:19:58,000
And so Immediately I have this
nice guy in my ward and he was a

1161
01:19:58,000 --> 01:20:02,900
super nice guy, he comes over
and he's like, what's wrong?

1162
01:20:04,000 --> 01:20:06,800
And he's actually the guy who
later filled my position and I

1163
01:20:06,808 --> 01:20:10,500
was like well they change this
and they change at and they

1164
01:20:10,500 --> 01:20:12,200
change this.
Now it's kind of willing to live

1165
01:20:12,200 --> 01:20:14,700
with that but then they change
this and there's no way I can

1166
01:20:14,700 --> 01:20:18,100
come back from that and he's
like, so you don't have a

1167
01:20:18,100 --> 01:20:21,700
problem with Brigham Young
Brigham, Brigham Young's racism

1168
01:20:21,700 --> 01:20:24,900
that's like, nope, he's like you
don't have a problem with the

1169
01:20:24,900 --> 01:20:26,400
church's history and plural
marriage.

1170
01:20:26,400 --> 01:20:31,100
I'm like, nope in a way but that
how you're thinking?

1171
01:20:31,300 --> 01:20:34,300
Right, exactly.
And he just Swings back.

1172
01:20:34,300 --> 01:20:40,000
He's like you're a
fundamentalist and I'm like Yep.

1173
01:20:40,000 --> 01:20:42,800
Yeah I think I am your right eye
a that way.

1174
01:20:43,000 --> 01:20:48,100
Yeah and he goes oh okay.
And dude after that I am like

1175
01:20:48,100 --> 01:20:52,200
persona non grata.
It is like you do not talk to

1176
01:20:52,200 --> 01:20:55,600
that dude.
And it's been funny because in

1177
01:20:55,600 --> 01:21:00,700
some ways I mean, I still reach
out to Pete, I still have people

1178
01:21:00,700 --> 01:21:03,400
on the podcast who are LDS?
I love a lot.

1179
01:21:04,000 --> 01:21:06,700
Oh yeah, I love people in the
church.

1180
01:21:06,700 --> 01:21:11,100
I really do and I don't have a
major ax to grind, but I did

1181
01:21:11,100 --> 01:21:14,200
find it funny that they were way
more willing to reach out to

1182
01:21:14,200 --> 01:21:18,900
someone who didn't believe in
anything as opposed to to me.

1183
01:21:18,900 --> 01:21:22,800
I was, you know, I think guys
like you and I are the worst

1184
01:21:22,800 --> 01:21:29,400
kind of apostates, right?
Because If knowledge is power,

1185
01:21:30,400 --> 01:21:36,100
it also is contagious and so
that's the sort of thing that

1186
01:21:36,100 --> 01:21:38,600
that I think is most threatening
of all.

1187
01:21:40,000 --> 01:21:43,700
Yeah, you know.
It's true.

1188
01:21:43,800 --> 01:21:48,200
And there's just kind of the
sense that you know we need a

1189
01:21:49,100 --> 01:21:52,400
like stay away from you guys.
Like there's something like

1190
01:21:52,400 --> 01:21:56,300
well, we'll catch what you've
got and you know sometimes I

1191
01:21:56,300 --> 01:22:01,200
wonder like, you know, another
thing is like when I got

1192
01:22:01,200 --> 01:22:09,400
excommunicated, it was not long
after that whole shoe.

1193
01:22:09,400 --> 01:22:12,100
What was the Hulu show about the
100?

1194
01:22:12,200 --> 01:22:13,900
The banner of Heavens.
Yeah.

1195
01:22:14,200 --> 01:22:18,400
Okay so that was like going on
right and that was in the news

1196
01:22:18,400 --> 01:22:27,000
and so my stake president was
like you know not like totally

1197
01:22:27,000 --> 01:22:31,800
sure he wanted to excommunicate
me like he was like they're like

1198
01:22:32,200 --> 01:22:34,900
and this I like he was like
trying to like hang on.

1199
01:22:34,900 --> 01:22:38,500
He's like well you know, like if
we kick him out then you know

1200
01:22:38,500 --> 01:22:42,100
like maybe if we stick around we
can get him to see reason.

1201
01:22:42,300 --> 01:22:45,900
Come around, you know.
And and I was like, I well you

1202
01:22:45,900 --> 01:22:52,400
know let me know what you want
to do and he said, well, I got

1203
01:22:52,400 --> 01:22:58,400
to talk to the area seventy and
you know, I don't know how that

1204
01:22:58,400 --> 01:23:02,800
conversation went but he came
back and it was nope, you got to

1205
01:23:02,800 --> 01:23:06,900
get rid of this guy and I
thought about it and I was like,

1206
01:23:06,900 --> 01:23:11,200
you know, I wonder if it's just
like I wonder if the 70 was like

1207
01:23:11,300 --> 01:23:15,200
scared that Like what if this
guy does something crazy five

1208
01:23:15,200 --> 01:23:20,100
years from now?
And we want to be able to say

1209
01:23:20,500 --> 01:23:23,400
that he wasn't one of ours you
know.

1210
01:23:23,500 --> 01:23:27,300
Right.
And because that's the you know,

1211
01:23:27,300 --> 01:23:30,700
I wanted because that's kind of
like what they were all doing

1212
01:23:30,900 --> 01:23:34,700
when the Hulu show came out
there were like hey just so you

1213
01:23:34,700 --> 01:23:38,400
guys know these were in our
people you know like we had

1214
01:23:38,400 --> 01:23:42,000
nothing to do with that, we kick
them out, you know.

1215
01:23:42,400 --> 01:23:48,300
And I think like there's that
just like mindset of like well

1216
01:23:48,300 --> 01:23:50,500
we don't want to do anything to
look bad.

1217
01:23:50,800 --> 01:23:55,600
So if he's associated with that
you know because that but I

1218
01:23:55,600 --> 01:24:00,000
didn't do anything.
I think like so then we just

1219
01:24:00,000 --> 01:24:02,600
wanted, if he does something
crazy, we want to be able to say

1220
01:24:02,600 --> 01:24:07,600
like it wasn't wasn't our guy.
So I'll share, I'll share One

1221
01:24:07,600 --> 01:24:12,600
More Story here.
And this happened just a few

1222
01:24:12,600 --> 01:24:17,000
months ago when Tanya join the
family.

1223
01:24:18,200 --> 01:24:23,500
Yeah, a guy across the street,
who's a member of the bishopric

1224
01:24:24,100 --> 01:24:27,500
and he came over and he's like,
hey, I see there's another car

1225
01:24:27,500 --> 01:24:31,900
in your parking lot and I was
like, sure is and he's like,

1226
01:24:32,300 --> 01:24:37,100
he's like, oh, who is?
She was like just family, he

1227
01:24:37,100 --> 01:24:39,800
goes, he goes, what are you
doing?

1228
01:24:40,400 --> 01:24:44,000
And I just thought for a second
like, okay, what do I say?

1229
01:24:45,200 --> 01:24:48,000
And I know his history, it goes
back a little ways and I just

1230
01:24:48,008 --> 01:24:50,200
looked at him and I smiled and
Grand.

1231
01:24:50,200 --> 01:24:52,900
And I just said nothing, your
ancestors wouldn't be proud of

1232
01:24:52,900 --> 01:24:54,400
and I just winked and then
walked away.

1233
01:24:54,400 --> 01:24:59,900
So but you got take that for
what it is.

1234
01:24:59,907 --> 01:25:04,700
I'm a guy who's humors probably
a bit sophomoric and I really

1235
01:25:04,700 --> 01:25:08,900
enjoy awkwardness.
So I think that that lent itself

1236
01:25:08,900 --> 01:25:14,600
to that but no, yeah II it was,
it's been it's been an

1237
01:25:14,600 --> 01:25:16,500
interesting.
Alright, I'm super happy.

1238
01:25:16,500 --> 01:25:21,300
Now, I'm happier now than Then
what I had been the previous,

1239
01:25:21,300 --> 01:25:24,500
you know, ten years when I was
trying to go back to the LDS

1240
01:25:24,500 --> 01:25:30,600
church and trying to fit that
box and and it's never a good

1241
01:25:30,600 --> 01:25:33,000
sign if you're walking out of
church pissed off.

1242
01:25:33,300 --> 01:25:36,100
And there was a lot of Sunday's
where I was walking out of

1243
01:25:36,108 --> 01:25:38,500
there.
Pissed off, not necessarily

1244
01:25:38,500 --> 01:25:42,800
anybody in particular because,
you know, again, I don't think

1245
01:25:42,800 --> 01:25:45,600
the stuff that we talked about
on this podcast and we talked

1246
01:25:45,600 --> 01:25:48,200
about as fundamentalists are are
well known.

1247
01:25:48,600 --> 01:25:52,500
So I don't place any blame at
leaders feet or anything like

1248
01:25:52,500 --> 01:25:55,100
that.
I just think there were some

1249
01:25:55,100 --> 01:25:57,900
decisions made in the past that
have been ramifications.

1250
01:25:57,900 --> 01:26:00,100
But when you hear something
that, you know, that's not

1251
01:26:00,100 --> 01:26:05,300
right, historically or
doctrinally, and you can't say

1252
01:26:05,300 --> 01:26:10,400
anything that's frustrating that
well, you know, the way I go

1253
01:26:10,400 --> 01:26:14,100
about it is obviously, you know,
you don't want to judge like an

1254
01:26:14,100 --> 01:26:19,500
individual person and so, I
don't, you know, like I don't Oh

1255
01:26:19,500 --> 01:26:23,800
well, this brother Elder so and
so he's a rat and I like I don't

1256
01:26:23,800 --> 01:26:29,000
do that.
But you know, I think that it is

1257
01:26:29,000 --> 01:26:33,800
appropriate for us to say look
this is what is being kept from

1258
01:26:33,800 --> 01:26:39,300
you and it doesn't have to be
and and at this point I think

1259
01:26:39,300 --> 01:26:44,000
it's fair that it could be out
of ignorance, you know?

1260
01:26:44,700 --> 01:26:48,200
It could just be, they don't
know either, you know, like

1261
01:26:48,200 --> 01:26:50,500
this.
You know, they got rid of this

1262
01:26:51,100 --> 01:26:54,900
100 years ago, it's not how they
were raised.

1263
01:26:54,900 --> 01:26:57,800
So they don't, you know, it's
not how they're how their

1264
01:26:57,800 --> 01:27:05,200
parents were raised, but forgot
about it and, and that's fine.

1265
01:27:05,800 --> 01:27:10,300
But, you know, the the saying
that, you know, I've heard that

1266
01:27:10,800 --> 01:27:17,000
recently that has stuck with me
is that when an honest man finds

1267
01:27:17,000 --> 01:27:22,600
out that he's mistaken, he I
must either cease to be mistaken

1268
01:27:22,800 --> 01:27:29,400
or he must cease to be honest.
Yeah, and that's when you learn,

1269
01:27:30,000 --> 01:27:34,300
now, you're in that position of
which is it, which is going to

1270
01:27:34,308 --> 01:27:36,500
be going to stop being mistake
moving.

1271
01:27:36,500 --> 01:27:38,500
A stop being honest.
Yeah.

1272
01:27:38,500 --> 01:27:40,800
No.
I I think that's a fair

1273
01:27:40,800 --> 01:27:44,500
assessment and yeah, no, I know
that.

1274
01:27:44,500 --> 01:27:50,000
That's a very fair assessment.
I I know there's been a few guys

1275
01:27:50,000 --> 01:27:53,300
who have come over the house
since I've left the LDS church

1276
01:27:55,400 --> 01:28:00,500
and one of them said well what
was it, what what happened and I

1277
01:28:00,500 --> 01:28:03,700
was I'm always I always give
them a choice, right?

1278
01:28:03,800 --> 01:28:07,500
Sometimes I feel like Morpheus,
I'm like you can have the moon

1279
01:28:07,500 --> 01:28:11,400
pill or you can take the red
pill, but understand you take

1280
01:28:11,400 --> 01:28:13,800
the red pill.
There's not really any going

1281
01:28:13,800 --> 01:28:17,500
back, right?
So which one do you want?

1282
01:28:17,800 --> 01:28:22,100
And I leave it up to them before
I just start like well let's

1283
01:28:22,100 --> 01:28:23,500
pull off.
Do you know Journal of

1284
01:28:23,500 --> 01:28:26,000
discourses?
Number one and we'll talk about,

1285
01:28:26,000 --> 01:28:28,700
you know, will re see what
brother Brigham had to say about

1286
01:28:28,700 --> 01:28:32,400
Adam coming to Earth with one of
his wives Eve and then we'll go

1287
01:28:32,400 --> 01:28:36,200
from there.
But yeah, I always try to try to

1288
01:28:36,200 --> 01:28:40,300
be like, okay, but you need to
know nothing's ever going to be

1289
01:28:40,300 --> 01:28:42,700
the same after this.
Yeah.

1290
01:28:43,900 --> 01:28:46,500
Yeah.
So it's an interesting place.

1291
01:28:46,500 --> 01:28:49,400
We find ourselves in In as
fundamentalist, but I wouldn't

1292
01:28:49,400 --> 01:28:51,900
trade it for the world.
I am so much happier.

1293
01:28:53,200 --> 01:28:55,600
Doing what I'm doing now.
Yeah.

1294
01:28:56,200 --> 01:29:01,500
Oh, absolutely.
The just for me, like, just

1295
01:29:01,500 --> 01:29:10,100
being a piece, you know, just
the being able to have access to

1296
01:29:11,300 --> 01:29:16,000
those blessings, you know.
And and you know, even for my

1297
01:29:16,000 --> 01:29:20,500
wife, you know, we talked about
it like her being able to go and

1298
01:29:20,500 --> 01:29:23,500
get a Mother's blessing.
Before.

1299
01:29:23,500 --> 01:29:25,900
Yeah.
Yeah.

1300
01:29:27,600 --> 01:29:31,200
The church doesn't even know
that that was an option.

1301
01:29:31,200 --> 01:29:38,800
And, you know, it's something
that, you know, she really had

1302
01:29:38,800 --> 01:29:43,800
with our first.
She really had a difficult

1303
01:29:43,800 --> 01:29:47,500
delivery and there was
challenges there, but like

1304
01:29:47,500 --> 01:29:53,200
having had that blessing like
helped, give her strength to get

1305
01:29:53,200 --> 01:29:59,300
through it.
And I Wish that, you know, that

1306
01:29:59,300 --> 01:30:04,400
the sisters knew that.
But that there was so much more

1307
01:30:04,400 --> 01:30:06,700
for them that they that they
could have as well.

1308
01:30:07,300 --> 01:30:12,800
You know, I find it interesting
that a lot of the things that

1309
01:30:12,900 --> 01:30:15,000
that the LDS church are
struggling with.

1310
01:30:15,000 --> 01:30:19,100
Now, fundamentalism has answers
to right.

1311
01:30:19,100 --> 01:30:23,100
I mean I remember not this last
conference but I think the one

1312
01:30:23,100 --> 01:30:27,600
before it someone was up there
talking about heavenly mother

1313
01:30:27,700 --> 01:30:30,400
right saying you know we don't
know a lot about her, we know

1314
01:30:30,400 --> 01:30:34,200
she exists whatever I'm like
well Well, if you study the Adam

1315
01:30:34,200 --> 01:30:37,500
God Doctrine, you'd know a whole
lot more about, right?

1316
01:30:38,500 --> 01:30:41,600
Or you know, women in the
priesthood, how does that all

1317
01:30:41,600 --> 01:30:43,300
work?
You just mentioned a mother's

1318
01:30:43,300 --> 01:30:49,100
blessing and I had on a panel of
women in fundamentalism.

1319
01:30:49,500 --> 01:30:51,400
That kind of talks about that,
right?

1320
01:30:51,400 --> 01:30:55,800
And I'm like, it just dawned on
me, we have a lot of answers,

1321
01:30:56,300 --> 01:30:57,700
right?
We really do.

1322
01:30:57,700 --> 01:31:01,500
And in some of those answers I
think we can give without

1323
01:31:01,500 --> 01:31:08,500
threatening somebody He's
testimony of, you know, the

1324
01:31:08,500 --> 01:31:12,500
restored gospel in even be able
to give them answers in that let

1325
01:31:12,500 --> 01:31:14,400
him stay in the LDS church,
right.

1326
01:31:14,400 --> 01:31:17,500
If they so desire, we just, you
know.

1327
01:31:18,700 --> 01:31:24,600
Yeah, I think we definitely have
a part to play, and I definitely

1328
01:31:24,600 --> 01:31:27,200
think his fundamentalist.
Now, we're in a kind of a golden

1329
01:31:27,200 --> 01:31:30,000
era.
One, that I think, maybe some of

1330
01:31:30,008 --> 01:31:32,300
the older folks never dreamed,
would come.

1331
01:31:32,400 --> 01:31:35,400
We're a moron.
Could grab a microphone and be

1332
01:31:35,400 --> 01:31:39,100
like, yep, I'm a fundamentalist
and just start spouting at the

1333
01:31:39,100 --> 01:31:41,000
lip, right?
And not have to worry about

1334
01:31:41,000 --> 01:31:43,700
reprisal.
Well, yeah, and even like the

1335
01:31:43,700 --> 01:31:48,600
fear of being known to live
plural marriage, right?

1336
01:31:48,600 --> 01:31:53,100
Yeah.
The there's never been a safer

1337
01:31:53,100 --> 01:31:55,300
time to be a polygamous than
there is now.

1338
01:31:55,600 --> 01:31:56,900
Yeah.
Yes.

1339
01:31:56,900 --> 01:31:58,600
Doesn't.
You know, there's that's that's

1340
01:31:58,600 --> 01:32:02,600
never.
You know, just don't do, you

1341
01:32:02,600 --> 01:32:05,900
know, like a I heard a lawyer
say that.

1342
01:32:05,900 --> 01:32:09,700
If you have to commit a crime
just make sure you only commit

1343
01:32:09,700 --> 01:32:17,500
one crime at a time is like
you're way less likely to get

1344
01:32:17,500 --> 01:32:20,700
caught, you know, like if you
know, he said, if you have to,

1345
01:32:21,000 --> 01:32:24,500
you have to travel with an
illegal weapon, make sure that

1346
01:32:24,500 --> 01:32:28,900
your tags are expired, right?
Your driver's license has been

1347
01:32:28,900 --> 01:32:32,700
renewed, you know.
Like just pick one crime and

1348
01:32:32,700 --> 01:32:37,500
just do that one.
So I'm saying the plural,

1349
01:32:37,700 --> 01:32:39,700
plural, marriage.
That's your crime.

1350
01:32:39,700 --> 01:32:43,100
That's that's it.
You get one, don't do any of the

1351
01:32:43,100 --> 01:32:45,500
others and you're going to be
fine.

1352
01:32:47,000 --> 01:32:51,400
It's funny, you know, the other
night me and me and the family

1353
01:32:51,400 --> 01:32:54,000
were just kind of sitting around
the table laughing and having a

1354
01:32:54,008 --> 01:32:57,700
good time and we were talking
about just kind of the state and

1355
01:32:57,700 --> 01:33:01,200
of the world today and shocker,
I'm To reveal something.

1356
01:33:01,600 --> 01:33:04,100
I believe there are differences
between men and women.

1357
01:33:04,200 --> 01:33:07,600
I know that's crazy but I'm
going to stick with that one.

1358
01:33:08,100 --> 01:33:12,200
But anyway I was like you ever
find yourself thinking that it's

1359
01:33:12,200 --> 01:33:14,900
weird that you kind of pine for
the old days when the weirdest

1360
01:33:14,900 --> 01:33:19,900
thing was our marital situation
you know we're not you know now

1361
01:33:19,900 --> 01:33:22,500
we seem kind of tame compared to
everything else right.

1362
01:33:22,500 --> 01:33:27,000
I mean now we're just that
boring so I like you I do find

1363
01:33:27,000 --> 01:33:30,000
it pretty interesting but I
think that I think the fact

1364
01:33:30,000 --> 01:33:32,900
we're Blessed living in the time
we are and I do think there are

1365
01:33:32,900 --> 01:33:37,200
blessings for living today is
that before?

1366
01:33:37,300 --> 01:33:42,000
I mean look i-i've had access to
some of the old-timers who kept

1367
01:33:42,000 --> 01:33:44,300
these things alive for us,
right?

1368
01:33:44,300 --> 01:33:49,700
They paid a price who they had
skin in the game for sure.

1369
01:33:49,700 --> 01:33:51,900
You know, they were worried
about losing their kids.

1370
01:33:52,600 --> 01:33:55,600
They did lose tits, right?
I mean they're, they're kids

1371
01:33:55,600 --> 01:33:59,300
were snatched.
I feel like we almost have a

1372
01:33:59,300 --> 01:34:03,300
responsibility now that we live
in this time where we can be a

1373
01:34:03,300 --> 01:34:07,100
little more open to be a little
more vocal and out front, so

1374
01:34:07,800 --> 01:34:09,600
it's always scary coming on
here.

1375
01:34:09,600 --> 01:34:11,500
But man, I sure appreciate you
being here.

1376
01:34:13,100 --> 01:34:15,900
Yeah, but that's it.
And it's not that there's no

1377
01:34:15,900 --> 01:34:17,800
risk.
Might like sometimes there are

1378
01:34:17,800 --> 01:34:22,100
people who wield power
arbitrarily and their cruel.

1379
01:34:22,100 --> 01:34:26,000
And so I, so for people who have
experienced those kinds of

1380
01:34:26,200 --> 01:34:29,800
abuses of Of power.
I don't want to belittle, you

1381
01:34:29,800 --> 01:34:34,300
know what, they go through and
are going through now.

1382
01:34:35,500 --> 01:34:43,600
But speaking in general terms
there's it's never really been

1383
01:34:43,600 --> 01:34:49,200
easier to live our faith than it
is now and the thing that we

1384
01:34:49,200 --> 01:34:55,900
fight against is apathy.
Yeah like we've got it's really

1385
01:34:55,900 --> 01:35:01,900
easy to Let's play video games,
right?

1386
01:35:02,900 --> 01:35:08,600
Scroll on your phone and except
for Tick-Tock, if you are

1387
01:35:08,600 --> 01:35:13,700
looking at, you know, Mormon
fundamentalist 1889 you need to

1388
01:35:13,700 --> 01:35:15,600
go there.
Stay there, scroll on that one.

1389
01:35:15,600 --> 01:35:20,100
Yeah, maronna jessup's as well.
Yeah go go to his go to been

1390
01:35:20,100 --> 01:35:23,700
Winfield's but ya know, other
than that stops growing but

1391
01:35:23,700 --> 01:35:28,600
those two you need to scroll on
more so well and I and this As I

1392
01:35:28,600 --> 01:35:30,500
like, and I struggle with this
as well.

1393
01:35:30,500 --> 01:35:37,100
Where, you know, I wanna Relax
and then there's nothing wrong

1394
01:35:37,100 --> 01:35:40,600
with a little bit of that.
You gotta keep yourself fresh

1395
01:35:40,600 --> 01:35:46,000
from time to time but I think
that's like our big pole is

1396
01:35:46,000 --> 01:35:50,900
apathy, you know?
Just like complacency hey, just

1397
01:35:50,900 --> 01:35:54,500
relax, everything's fine.
You don't have to put in the F,

1398
01:35:54,500 --> 01:35:57,200
the extra effort things'll, you
know?

1399
01:35:57,200 --> 01:36:00,500
And, and I think that's like the
real danger, that most of us

1400
01:36:00,500 --> 01:36:04,400
face.
Is that just kind of like Soft

1401
01:36:04,400 --> 01:36:09,100
Whisper Of Satan of that.
Go back to sleep, you don't,

1402
01:36:09,100 --> 01:36:11,400
there's nothing difficult.
You got to worry about, you

1403
01:36:11,400 --> 01:36:16,000
know, take have another beer,
little everything's just fine.

1404
01:36:16,100 --> 01:36:18,500
You know.
And I think that's the big thing

1405
01:36:18,500 --> 01:36:20,800
that we have to guard ourselves
against.

1406
01:36:21,000 --> 01:36:23,300
Oh, I think you're right.
I think you're right.

1407
01:36:23,300 --> 01:36:27,300
I think we're definitely like, I
keep hearing about this idea of

1408
01:36:27,300 --> 01:36:30,400
having, you know, of another
civil war and I'm like, we're

1409
01:36:30,400 --> 01:36:33,500
too lazy for another civil war.
There's no way.

1410
01:36:33,600 --> 01:36:37,200
Why we do that, we don't have
enough gumption to do that.

1411
01:36:38,600 --> 01:36:42,100
Yeah, yeah, that's a.
I mean, I like, who knows,

1412
01:36:42,100 --> 01:36:43,800
right?
Like, who knows what could

1413
01:36:43,800 --> 01:36:48,700
happen in the future.
But I think that right now is

1414
01:36:48,700 --> 01:36:53,600
mostly a fantasy.
Yep, that people have now that

1415
01:36:53,700 --> 01:36:59,600
20 years from now, hooting
things have changed totally but

1416
01:36:59,900 --> 01:37:02,900
you know, right now.
Ya know like shoot, no one is

1417
01:37:02,900 --> 01:37:06,000
motivated.
Enough to have Civil War, right?

1418
01:37:06,100 --> 01:37:10,000
No, no, no.
We're way too preoccupied with

1419
01:37:10,000 --> 01:37:14,700
Netflix to do that.
So, but, and now, if the

1420
01:37:14,700 --> 01:37:18,400
electricity goes down, oh, and
it's chaos, right?

1421
01:37:18,400 --> 01:37:20,300
Yeah, things might change,
right?

1422
01:37:21,300 --> 01:37:25,500
But as it stands.
No, you know, no one's people

1423
01:37:25,500 --> 01:37:30,300
are fat and happy and
distracted, and they're not

1424
01:37:30,300 --> 01:37:32,800
going to do anything.
Unless something interrupts

1425
01:37:32,800 --> 01:37:35,200
their, their Calories for their
entertainment.

1426
01:37:35,300 --> 01:37:40,700
You'd I'll tell you what I would
write if like brisket was gone,

1427
01:37:40,800 --> 01:37:42,600
right?
I'm going to war at that point.

1428
01:37:42,600 --> 01:37:46,300
I'm like load load up.
Let's get the Posse together.

1429
01:37:46,300 --> 01:37:47,500
Rib.
Fix this right now.

1430
01:37:47,900 --> 01:37:52,900
But yeah.
Nope well dude, we've been at

1431
01:37:52,900 --> 01:37:53,900
it.
Almost two hours.

1432
01:37:53,900 --> 01:37:56,800
I appreciate you coming on.
It's been a pleasure.

1433
01:37:57,700 --> 01:38:01,000
Yeah, let's do it again before,
too much longer to.

1434
01:38:01,000 --> 01:38:05,700
I enjoy talking to you.
Yeah, not that It's always a

1435
01:38:05,700 --> 01:38:10,300
pleasure and joy so it only
other thing I want to bring up,

1436
01:38:10,300 --> 01:38:12,600
I'm sure you're gonna do like an
ad or whatever for this.

1437
01:38:12,600 --> 01:38:17,800
But everyone go and donate to
Drew Brown any and his work with

1438
01:38:18,700 --> 01:38:24,300
the annotated DNC who data is
such a worthy, a worthy project.

1439
01:38:24,300 --> 01:38:26,300
It really is.
Yeah.

1440
01:38:27,000 --> 01:38:32,300
It's and look, I've been broke
before I've even been so broke

1441
01:38:32,300 --> 01:38:34,500
that.
I actually we probably couldn't

1442
01:38:34,500 --> 01:38:40,500
come up with five bucks to give
to something and if someone's in

1443
01:38:40,500 --> 01:38:46,500
that kind of a condition, you
know, God be with you, it's

1444
01:38:46,500 --> 01:38:50,300
fine.
Don't feel guilty but pretty

1445
01:38:50,300 --> 01:38:56,400
much anyone else, you know?
Like if even if things are tight

1446
01:38:56,500 --> 01:38:58,500
you know like if there's
something if there's some

1447
01:38:59,400 --> 01:39:04,700
Leisure or some Indulgence that
you can get rid of for A brief

1448
01:39:04,700 --> 01:39:08,000
period of time to come up with
something, you know, stop,

1449
01:39:08,000 --> 01:39:10,800
grabbing snacks at the gas
station for a week, if you need

1450
01:39:10,800 --> 01:39:12,300
to, you know, something like
that.

1451
01:39:13,600 --> 01:39:17,000
But do something.
If you're able and and if and I

1452
01:39:17,000 --> 01:39:18,800
know that not we're not all
broke.

1453
01:39:18,900 --> 01:39:23,000
Some of us are doing quite well
and if that's the case of anyone

1454
01:39:23,000 --> 01:39:27,000
listening and you you're doing
well, I think you kind of have a

1455
01:39:27,000 --> 01:39:31,700
responsibility to do it a little
more than just a little so

1456
01:39:32,300 --> 01:39:35,600
donate to that because We need
to have a Doctrine and Covenants

1457
01:39:35,600 --> 01:39:39,500
that we can give to our kids
that isn't going to tell them

1458
01:39:39,500 --> 01:39:43,200
that their parents are living in
sin and absolutely need to.

1459
01:39:43,800 --> 01:39:46,700
We can't be relying on that
alistar's anymore for that.

1460
01:39:46,700 --> 01:39:49,700
Like we need to be able to give
them something really valuable.

1461
01:39:50,400 --> 01:39:53,300
Yeah.
And and my worst fear is that

1462
01:39:54,900 --> 01:39:59,300
Things like 1:30 to go do go
away at some point, right?

1463
01:39:59,300 --> 01:40:02,900
I mean that's that's that's
always a possibility.

1464
01:40:02,900 --> 01:40:05,900
It wouldn't be the first section
of the Doctrine and Covenants.

1465
01:40:05,900 --> 01:40:10,000
That's been removed.
So that's, that's a very real

1466
01:40:10,000 --> 01:40:12,100
possibility and there's so many
right.

1467
01:40:12,200 --> 01:40:15,400
Like, look, the John Taylor's
they tended to six Revelation

1468
01:40:15,600 --> 01:40:18,000
that ought to be in the Doctrine
and Covenants.

1469
01:40:18,000 --> 01:40:19,800
Yep.
You know the Revelation

1470
01:40:19,800 --> 01:40:24,000
reference earlier with Wilfred
Woodruff and 1880, people don't

1471
01:40:24,000 --> 01:40:28,400
know about these.
Things and they should.

1472
01:40:28,400 --> 01:40:32,600
And yeah, so just anyone, I just
anyone, if you can come up with

1473
01:40:32,600 --> 01:40:37,400
only five bucks than do that and
if you, if you're got the cash,

1474
01:40:37,400 --> 01:40:40,700
then do a lot more than that,
whatever your person situation

1475
01:40:40,700 --> 01:40:44,900
is like help-help, Drew makes
makes that a real thing.

1476
01:40:45,100 --> 01:40:47,100
I want to I want to see that be
successful.

1477
01:40:47,300 --> 01:40:49,200
Awesome.
I second that as well.

1478
01:40:50,100 --> 01:40:52,300
All right, dude well it was fun
again.

1479
01:40:52,300 --> 01:40:54,200
Let's not wait too long to do
this again.

1480
01:40:55,200 --> 01:40:57,000
Alright.
Alright, good.

1481
01:40:57,200 --> 01:41:13,900
Bye everybody.
You're listening to the Mormon

1482
01:41:13,900 --> 01:41:28,400
Renegade podcast.
Here's the unfortunate truth

1483
01:41:28,400 --> 01:41:32,800
right now as fundamentalists and
traditional LDS folks, we can't

1484
01:41:32,800 --> 01:41:36,800
expect to have accurate history
told by others because true

1485
01:41:36,800 --> 01:41:40,200
history and scholarship is
problematic for certain people.

1486
01:41:40,200 --> 01:41:43,400
And organizations, we're going
to have to do this work

1487
01:41:43,400 --> 01:41:46,500
ourselves and to do that, we
will have to support each other

1488
01:41:46,500 --> 01:41:50,400
in this kind of work.
Now, anybody who's anybody in

1489
01:41:50,400 --> 01:41:54,500
fundamentalist, circles knows
who drew Briny is, he is perhaps

1490
01:41:54,500 --> 01:41:57,700
the most prolific author.
Within Mormon fundamentalism.

1491
01:41:58,100 --> 01:41:59,900
Drew's newest project is
something.

1492
01:41:59,900 --> 01:42:03,600
I think all Mormons can benefit
from he is in the process of

1493
01:42:03,600 --> 01:42:06,600
creating an annotated version of
the Doctrine and Covenants.

1494
01:42:07,200 --> 01:42:09,900
Once you have a copy of this,
you will be able to compare

1495
01:42:09,900 --> 01:42:12,800
current sections with previous
versions.

1496
01:42:12,800 --> 01:42:17,100
And also what early LDS leaders
had to say about that particular

1497
01:42:17,100 --> 01:42:20,000
section as fundamentalists and
traditional LDS.

1498
01:42:20,000 --> 01:42:23,000
Folks, we are constantly trying
to get back into the minds of

1499
01:42:23,000 --> 01:42:26,700
the early Brethren this project
that Drew's and Aged in right

1500
01:42:26,700 --> 01:42:29,600
now is going to be the ultimate
tool to help us do that.

1501
01:42:29,900 --> 01:42:32,400
Now because this annotated
version of the Doctrine and

1502
01:42:32,407 --> 01:42:35,400
Covenants is such a massive
undertaking, Drew needs some

1503
01:42:35,400 --> 01:42:39,100
help from others, Drew's plan
for getting this annotated

1504
01:42:39,100 --> 01:42:41,600
version of the Doctrine and
Covenants out is through

1505
01:42:41,600 --> 01:42:45,600
crowdfunding the link for that
will be out April 4th if you

1506
01:42:45,600 --> 01:42:48,700
want more details sooner, go to
Drew's Facebook page and

1507
01:42:48,700 --> 01:42:52,400
messaging from there and he'll
give you all the details further

1508
01:42:52,400 --> 01:42:55,400
on Saturday.
April 8, I'll be releasing an

1509
01:42:55,400 --> 01:42:57,500
episode.
That talks about this project in

1510
01:42:57,500 --> 01:43:00,500
Greater detail.
So please if you feel impressed

1511
01:43:00,500 --> 01:43:03,800
to do so and have the means I'd
humbly ask that you reach out to

1512
01:43:03,800 --> 01:43:06,800
Drew and support this project,
that will help Advance the

1513
01:43:06,800 --> 01:43:10,400
scholarship and true doctrine of
the restored gospel.

1514
01:43:24,200 --> 01:43:27,400
You're listening to the Mormon
Renegade podcast.