Episode #63: The Atonement & Resurrection & The Infiltration of Pagan Gods Into The Celebration Of Saviors Atonement W/Just Francom

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Well, last week, I released an
episode on Passover.

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This week, I sit down have a
conversation with Justin Frank.

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I'm on the savior's atonement in
this conversation, Justin, and I

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recount, and dive into the last
week of the savior's mortal

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Ministry to suffering in the
garden, his crucifixion, his

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triumphant Resurrection.
We then do a deep dive on how

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the celebration of the savior's
atonement was infiltrated by

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Pagan celebrations.
And we wrap up by talking about

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what we can do to take these
important religious celebrations

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back.
And that's next on this episode

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of the Mormon Renegade podcast.
The DNC is perhaps one of the

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most unique books, in all of
religious scripture, we hear the

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voice of the Lord.
So, clearly in it, it allows us

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to jump back in time and see the
progression of Mormon theology.

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However, sometimes we're still
left with questions as we try to

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consider and get in the minds of
those early leaders.

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As we read these Revelations,
well, the help us with that and

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get back to the original Dual
intent, Drew brownies latest

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project, the annotated version
of the Doctrine, and Covenants

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will be an invaluable tool with
this version.

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You'll be able to see the
original as well as current

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versions of the revelations with
each Revelation.

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You will also be able to see
what those early church leaders

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thought on the principles of
each Revelation.

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Now, whether you're seeking to
gain greater insights into the

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Doctrine and Covenants, or
you're just a church history

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buff, this annotated version of
the Doctrine.

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And Covenants is a must-have,
click the link in this episode

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page.
To find out how you can get your

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hands on a copy today.
You're listening to the Mormon

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Renegade podcast.
Justin my man.

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Welcome back, dude, how's things
been?

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Hey, Dave, it's been great.
It's been great.

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A lot of stuff going on here in
Missouri and just getting stuff

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settled here on my Homestead.
Nice nice, everything going.

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Good as far as homesteading that
thing.

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Oh yeah.
Yeah, it's going good.

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I mean the weather was 80 here.
You know what just be quiet

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about that here in Utah.
It like well you know you were

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kind of raised here, right?
You get it.

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But dude we just keep getting
like not a little bits of Snow

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either like feet of snow all the
time and it won't stop it

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teases.
You like, we got probably eight

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inches at my place over Monday
and Tuesday and then next

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Tuesday is supposed to be 72.
To.

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So all we're doing is setting up
for flooding so well that the

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Ishtar yeah that's right.
That's right.

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I suppose you haven't been to
the temple prostitutes enough?

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No probably not.
That's probably part of it.

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Is that that that I haven't
paid?

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My dues to the to the Babylonian
Gods is probably what happened.

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But no what happened was?
We were all praying for moisture

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and he's like okay here it
comes.

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So get ready.
But anyway, Well ma'am, we're

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going to have a great
conversation.

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We talked a little bit off, are
last weekend about doing this,

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and we, I just recently covered
Passover with with Joshua and

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now we're going to focus on
really, you know, the the

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accounts out of the New
Testament of Jesus, atonement

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and sacrifice and then what that
means to us.

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And I think, you know, I can't
think of a better guy to have on

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Help me out with that then you.
So let's get into it, man.

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What sticks out to you about
this whole thing?

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Yeah.
Well you know I love the topic

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of the atonement and it's really
been something that's been kind

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of primary in my focus on
scriptures and stuff like that

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ever since my mission and I was
really actually fortunate to

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have a mission president that he
really stuck me with some great

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questions that have followed me
throughout my life and I think

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there's nothing better than a
great question to ponder and

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really get the Mind activated.
I mean if you look at most of

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Joseph Smith Revelations their
founded upon questions and I

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think that you know, asking
questions is one of the one of

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the greatest things we can do.
So I've actually I've got a

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question for you Dave?
Yeah.

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This is a a kind of a question
that got posed to me by my

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mission president.
Okay okay it was explained that

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when he was on his mission he
had a companion and this

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companion of his I told him I'm
no uncertain terms that to truly

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appreciate the atonement of
Jesus Christ.

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You have to have repented from a
serious transgression.

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Now my mission president told me
that he was kind of of the

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opinion that that there's Elder
knew that from firsthand

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experience but it really raises
a really to me a really great

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question.
Do you need to have egregious

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sin in your life that you've
repented of to truly have a deep

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understanding and appreciation
of the automa I meant, what do

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you think of that?
So I'm just going to speak from

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personal experience on this one.
When I first, was exploring

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Mormonism, not even
fundamentalism.

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Just, you know, I was I was
taking the discussions with the

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with the elders there to to join
the LDS church and as we were

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going down just the basic
things, right?

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And this was back in like, 95.
So you still have the, the

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series of six discussions and
you get a pamphlet in the Book

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of Mormon.
Oh, you know, missionary

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version.
And then you have reading

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assignments and that was my
mission, okay.

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As I start getting into it,
right?

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And we start going through all
these.

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I go ahead and I just start
reading more on my own.

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And all of a sudden, I'm like,
yeah, most of the dump, the

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stuff.
They say, our don'ts in here, I

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do on a regular basis and some
of them were, you know, there

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were definitely, you know, like
Chastity kind of things that

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that I had violated before I was
a Mormon at all and Once I

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started to really think about
those things.

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I became more appreciative of
the Savior and what he did,

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because I realized, I'm kind of
a dirtbag, right?

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I had to have that very
uncomfortable conversation of

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yeah, I'm a dirtbag and that led
to a lot of things abuse of

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alcohol, harder drugs, those
sorts of things and I remember

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standing in the font and just
telling God, I'll follow and

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this was probably how I ended
up.

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On the mentalism fundamentalist.
You as I said, I'll follow this

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out to its logical, conclusion,
whatever, that is, wherever you

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are.
That's what I wear.

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I want to be and I'll do
whatever it is.

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You ask me to do.
I just don't ever want to have

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to feel like I have felt for the
past five years.

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Now, let me say this.
There have been times that I

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have had to repent of sins that
maybe aren't that Grievous,

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right?
Maybe I've offended someone and

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maybe I didn't even mean to But
I still felt horrible about it.

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So the thing I'll say is, is as
you grow closer to the Savior

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and your discipleship, even the
little sins can feel

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overwhelming at times.
So this idea that you have to

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have this, you know, Grievous
sin to come back from.

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I don't think so because I don't
think for God, there's a whole

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lot of difference in most sins,
right?

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A sin is a sin, is a sin.
Obviously there are some that

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are bigger in nature because of
the impact.

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They have on other people, but
if we're not offending somebody

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else, we're probably offending
God.

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And when you think about that,
that makes it huge in and of

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itself.
I know that was a long answer to

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a short question.
Well, I think good answer, it's

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a deep question, really, I think
because the premise of it On at

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surface value.
I mean, my initial on my

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mission.
At that time, I kind of got

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reaction was well, that's
ridiculous.

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Because, you know, it's better
not to sin.

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And so what, How could somebody
who is lived a life in sin, get

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this reward of a greater
appreciation and connection to

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the tollman in Christ because of
that.

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But that was kind of my kind of
gut reaction, you know, and not

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to go into details.
But, you know, I ran into some

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issues after my mission.
And I had some experiences.

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I wouldn't even necessarily say,
Grievous sins, but I don't know,

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maybe, maybe you would call him
Grievous sins and it was really

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actually, after some of those
experiences that even for

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myself, I truly gained a much,
much deeper, appreciation of the

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atonement.
It was it me, it means so much

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more to me now than before, and
so, there does seem to be

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something to that.
A friend of mine brought up that

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one of the, one of Christ
Parables talks about the debtor

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that, you know, owed Oda a
little and then the debtor that

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over the lot and they do that
hola.

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How much how much more
appreciative is he?

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When his debt was forgiven him,
right?

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So, in the other she thing is
like, I cuz the downside of this

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is, if you buy into that kind of
an idea that that sin will lead

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to a greater appreciation of the
atonement that might lead to

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this idea.
Well then go and commit some

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Grievous sin, right?
And I'm not trying to promote

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that at all.
But a lot of people that I know

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who are really, really hardcore
in their faith and dependence on

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Christ, really have gone through
a kind of a Saul like

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transformation in their lives.
And that seems to be pretty much

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undeniable.
I mean, I don't know for sure if

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it's if it's actually truly
required but I personally don't

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know anybody that hasn't really
struggled.

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And then in that kind of
Darkness to really be able to

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who truly truly really deeply
appreciates the Light of Christ.

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Well I'll say this, right is
one, I think all sin, no matter

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what it is, I think has that
ability to separate you from

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God.
Right?

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And so the outcomes are the
same, whether it's Fornication,

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or if it's just speaking ill of
another, you know, I think that

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that you know the outcomes can
be pretty much the same.

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Now we do know that there are
degrees of Glory for a reason,

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right?
So obviously some sins are more

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more Grievous than others.
However I think if it results in

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the separation of you from God I
think it's Grievous no matter

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what as far as people who have
that kind of Of Saul of Tarsus

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moment.
I'll say this for me again, and

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I'm pretty I'm pretty black and
white when it comes, when it

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comes to to my religion in a lot
of ways, I am pretty nuanced on

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some things but a lot of it's
black and white for me.

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And There's times where and I
felt this coming out of the

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font, I felt this coming into
fundamentalism.

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I feel it today that you know
what?

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I owe God something right and
I'll never be able to pay it

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back.
I don't want anyone to think

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that, that, that we have this
ability to pay it back, but

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there is a certain amount of Of
wanting to put forth some sort

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of token saying, I tried.
I did the best I could.

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And so I think maybe some of
that where you find people

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who've had those those moments
where where there's been a

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drastic change in a drastic
conversion.

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I think sometimes can be like,
yeah, I gotta, I gotta start

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paying it forward here a little
bit.

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Yeah, you know, it's
interesting.

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You bring that up because I
think a lot of it actually.

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So, you're right, whether it's a
egregious sin or a, some minor

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thing, all those things separate
us from God, they all have the

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same spiritual death but not all
of them.

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Have the same kind of immediate
consequences, right?

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And I think it's really some of
the sun sends have immediate or

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more present, Grievous
consequences.

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And that's really what we're
talking about, right?

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Right thinking about Revis in is
is the one where you, you know,

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immediately like wow.
That's that was really really

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bad.
You really end up in that in

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that place of recognizing.
How how damaging that was and I

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think you're right even small,
I'll send you know speaking bad

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about somebody behind their
back, you know, maybe that's not

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a grievous sin.
If that leads to some rumors

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going around and and leads to,
you know, some gossip which

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Leads to bullying, which might
lead somebody into Despair and

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may be suicidal thoughts or some
like that.

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I mean, we don't really know the
consequence that, you know, the

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consequences of our actions.
And so, I think really what it

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is.
We need to have committed a

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great degree that sin to
appreciate the atonement.

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I think what we need to do is we
need to recognize the

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grievousness of our sins to
appreciate the atonement.

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I like that.
Yeah, I know I I think that's

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definitely the case.
I like that we recognize the

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grievousness of our sins because
you're right some things it and

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what I don't know if this is
necessarily doctrinally.

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Correct and I won't ever pretend
to say it is.

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I've told everybody on this
podcast, I'm not your Bishop.

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I'm not your priest, I'm not
your Rabbi.

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I'm not your stake president,
I'm not your Prophet.

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I'm just a dude with a
microphone but I'll say this.

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I've always kind of gauged, how
bad a sin is by, how badly it

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affects another, right?
So let's say you're in the car

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and someone cuts you off in
traffic and you, you know, have

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a little bit of contempt in your
heart, right?

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That's not necessarily healthy
but the impact on anybody else

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but yourself and your
relationship with God is, you

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know, fairly minimal.
Now you go out and you screw

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around on your wife.
Now you've got now you've hurt

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yourself, you hurt God, you've
broken a covenant, you broke

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your wife's heart.
When we find out in Jacob that

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that's huge.
God counts those tears, you've

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wounded your children, you don't
know what the effect on

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everyone's testimony.
That's going to be down the

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road.
So I tend to think that that

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sometimes the, the grievousness
of sins can can really be

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dependent upon what you doing.
How badly you hurt another.

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If we look at Just the Ten
Commandments primarily, with the

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exception of things like the
Sabbath day and, you know, idol

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worship it all has to do with
how it affects other people,

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right?
Don't covet your neighbor's

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wife.
You don't want to destroy a

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marriage, you know?
Don't don't murder.

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Don't take the life of another
don't take from somebody else.

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So it's really about how we are
interacting.

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Acting with everybody else.
And I think that plays into a

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large part of just how grave
this the sin is Well, that's a

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great point about the road rage
actually because that seems like

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a small thing but the actual I
mean, it's so this is something,

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I'm actually, I've tried, I've
tried to work on with myself

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because I noticed that.
Well, back when I lived in Utah,

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you know, how you top drivers
are.

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No, I don't know what you're
talking about.

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I live in this state, we got to
be quiet.

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So, okay, all right, yeah, I'm
I'm just kidding.

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Fantastic except it's those
California.

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It's The Californians.
And so that, California and cuts

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you off and you get pissed.
But that happens like three or

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four times when you just go into
the store and you get back from

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the store and you're still
pissed because you're a guy and

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you throw interacting with your
wife's, right?

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Interacting with your children
or possibly.

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Even God forbid, you get really
pissed off while you're driving,

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and then you do something
stupid.

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You get in a car accident, you
get you hurt injure, somebody

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else change your own family.
Get People killed.

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I mean, the potential
consequences, even of just

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getting pissed off for getting
cut off.

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Can be huge.
Yeah.

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And you know, and so I think
that The it's losing control of

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00:17:34,900 --> 00:17:36,200
yourself, right?
That's really kind.

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00:17:36,200 --> 00:17:38,000
What that anger is.
You're losing control of

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yourself.
You're not making it sound

289
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judgment and anytime you're in
that kind of situation.

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Like, I don't think there's
anything inherently evil that

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alcohol.
But you put yourself in a state

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where where you're inebriated
and all of a sudden you could do

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some serious serious damage to
your life and other people's

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lives.
And that's why I think that's

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there's such a fine line between
the morality And immorality of

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drinking and things.
Yeah, yeah.

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And I always go to the default
of, if it Separates Me From God,

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it's something that has to be
rectified.

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00:18:13,700 --> 00:18:18,300
Yeah, absolutely.
So you know I was kind of

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00:18:18,300 --> 00:18:22,300
curious when we're talking off
air beforehand last week, we

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were talking a little bit about
the worship of Ishtar.

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Yeah.
And I'm kind of curious if you

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00:18:29,200 --> 00:18:31,500
wanted to.
Yeah, let's go into that a

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little bit.
Let's let's dive into that.

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00:18:34,100 --> 00:18:41,400
But maybe before we do, I would
like to give maybe an overview

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of what it was the savior had to
endure for the atonement first

307
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because I want to set that table
and then after that, lets go

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into how that act had been
basically stolen by Ishtar

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because I find that fascinating,
I think that's been more I think

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00:19:06,800 --> 00:19:10,100
the celebration of Christ's
atonement has been more

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00:19:10,100 --> 00:19:16,600
bastardized and even Christmas
on a large scale because it it

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00:19:16,600 --> 00:19:22,600
has just overarching
consequences if we don't realize

313
00:19:23,000 --> 00:19:27,500
just how important that is.
So that's, that's why I'd like

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00:19:27,500 --> 00:19:28,900
to start.
If you're good with that.

315
00:19:29,700 --> 00:19:34,700
Now, that'd be great.
So For me.

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00:19:35,900 --> 00:19:38,400
I think when we start talking
about the process of the

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00:19:38,400 --> 00:19:42,900
atonement and the events leading
up to it, there's a couple

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00:19:42,900 --> 00:19:45,600
things that really jumped out to
me that that I found

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00:19:45,600 --> 00:19:49,800
fascinating, as I was reading
the account again this week and

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00:19:49,800 --> 00:19:57,100
one was in and it seems kind of
of almost a side note sometimes.

321
00:19:57,800 --> 00:20:03,100
And that's when Christ is taken
by Pilot before the people of

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00:20:03,300 --> 00:20:05,200
Jerusalem, who are gathered
there.

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00:20:05,900 --> 00:20:09,200
Here's something else to think
about right Christ?

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00:20:09,200 --> 00:20:12,000
Just a few days before rides
into Jerusalem.

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00:20:12,000 --> 00:20:17,200
Triumphant right there are
people who are like here we go.

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00:20:17,200 --> 00:20:20,300
You know that where he's going
to kick the Romans out and he's

327
00:20:20,300 --> 00:20:23,500
going to do all these things and
we're going to usher in this

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00:20:23,500 --> 00:20:27,800
this Millennial Reign and it's
going to be all good and Jesus

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00:20:27,800 --> 00:20:31,600
is going to get it done.
Well, we know from scripture

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00:20:32,100 --> 00:20:38,500
that Christ was betrayed, he was
taken to Pata to Caiaphas first,

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00:20:38,500 --> 00:20:40,100
if I'm not mistaken, it was
Caiaphas.

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00:20:40,700 --> 00:20:43,700
And Caiaphas was like, you know
what, take him to the Romans.

333
00:20:44,900 --> 00:20:47,900
And so, and along the way, he's
getting beat up.

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00:20:47,900 --> 00:20:50,100
Pretty good, right?
He's getting slapped.

335
00:20:50,100 --> 00:20:53,300
He's getting harassed.
And so he finally makes his way

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00:20:53,300 --> 00:20:57,000
to Pilot and you could tell
Pilots got some apprehension,

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00:20:57,000 --> 00:21:00,000
his wife has had some
premonitions, you know, hey,

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00:21:00,000 --> 00:21:02,300
don't do this.
That, you know, I've had a dream

339
00:21:02,800 --> 00:21:06,800
and and so Pilots kind of you
Almost get this feeling like

340
00:21:06,800 --> 00:21:09,100
Pilots trying to find a way out.
He has this idea.

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00:21:09,100 --> 00:21:12,500
I'll just take him out and I
will give the people their

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00:21:12,500 --> 00:21:15,000
choice.
They can either have Barabbas or

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00:21:15,000 --> 00:21:21,500
they can have Jesus, right?
As is the custom Now, when you

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00:21:21,900 --> 00:21:25,700
study Josephus a little bit when
you, when you look at some

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00:21:25,700 --> 00:21:29,900
historical sources and some oral
Traditions, they say Barabbas

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00:21:29,900 --> 00:21:33,300
was a murderer.
But what you don't get is that

347
00:21:33,400 --> 00:21:37,100
he was a zealot which meant that
he was one of the ones trying to

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00:21:37,100 --> 00:21:41,200
kick Rome out.
And so when they take Jesus and

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00:21:41,200 --> 00:21:46,600
they present them to the crowd,
You in the crowd Christ for

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00:21:46,600 --> 00:21:49,900
Barabbas.
It's because the people are

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00:21:49,900 --> 00:21:54,800
politically angry.
Which I think is a huge thing,

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00:21:54,800 --> 00:21:58,000
especially in today's day and
age, right?

353
00:21:58,000 --> 00:22:02,500
Because look, I'll admit, I
didn't vote for Donald Trump.

354
00:22:02,500 --> 00:22:04,500
The first time around, I did the
second time.

355
00:22:04,900 --> 00:22:07,000
I didn't trust him.
I didn't think he was a

356
00:22:07,000 --> 00:22:09,000
constitutionalist.
I didn't think he was measured

357
00:22:09,000 --> 00:22:13,100
enough.
I had concerns, I was wrong.

358
00:22:13,100 --> 00:22:15,100
I'll be the first guy on here to
admit.

359
00:22:15,100 --> 00:22:17,800
I was wrong.
The thing that scared me about

360
00:22:17,800 --> 00:22:23,700
Trump is that he appealed to
people's anger And every time in

361
00:22:23,700 --> 00:22:26,700
history, we've seen a political
leader appeal to somebody's

362
00:22:26,700 --> 00:22:30,200
anger.
It turns out way bad, right?

363
00:22:30,600 --> 00:22:33,900
And it did this time, right?
They gave the citizens their

364
00:22:33,900 --> 00:22:36,400
choice.
Do you want Barabbas, or do you

365
00:22:36,408 --> 00:22:39,700
want Jesus?
And by now, they're like, well,

366
00:22:39,700 --> 00:22:43,800
Jesus is in Roman custody.
He's obviously not the guy give

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00:22:43,800 --> 00:22:48,100
us Barabbas.
So sometimes I think we're

368
00:22:48,100 --> 00:22:53,000
really quick to allow some of
those political divisions to

369
00:22:53,000 --> 00:22:55,700
creep into our spiritual lives.
And I think that's something

370
00:22:55,700 --> 00:22:59,900
that we have to be very careful
of That's kind of a timely

371
00:22:59,900 --> 00:23:03,600
analogy with trunk getting
indicted and all that.

372
00:23:03,600 --> 00:23:04,600
Right?
Exactly.

373
00:23:04,600 --> 00:23:07,900
Yeah, we today, would we do we
want Trump or what we want

374
00:23:07,900 --> 00:23:10,400
Christ?
Yeah, yeah.

375
00:23:10,400 --> 00:23:14,100
Well, and, and I'm not saying
Trump was a, was a bad guy,

376
00:23:14,100 --> 00:23:16,700
right?
You know, he didn't take the

377
00:23:16,700 --> 00:23:19,900
same covenants that guys like
you and I took, right?

378
00:23:21,000 --> 00:23:25,400
But nonetheless, I won't pretend
to judge the guy right during

379
00:23:25,400 --> 00:23:27,600
his presidency.
I think he did some good things.

380
00:23:27,600 --> 00:23:30,000
I think he did some Bad things.
I think he was like every other

381
00:23:30,000 --> 00:23:33,200
president.
In some ways I do think he's

382
00:23:33,200 --> 00:23:35,900
scared the establishment to
death and that's why they are

383
00:23:35,900 --> 00:23:37,800
working so hard against him
right now.

384
00:23:38,200 --> 00:23:44,300
But do we if we allow ourselves
to be swept up, in a moment of

385
00:23:44,300 --> 00:23:49,800
anger, What would we do?
What could we be party to?

386
00:23:50,400 --> 00:23:55,400
And so, I think this part of
Christ's passion, if you will to

387
00:23:55,400 --> 00:24:00,500
borrow from the Catholics, a
little bit is very telling about

388
00:24:00,500 --> 00:24:07,700
The Human Condition Yeah, well
the desire for immediate

389
00:24:08,700 --> 00:24:11,300
restitution.
Yeah, I wanted to maybe get

390
00:24:11,300 --> 00:24:16,100
results and and that's I and and
there's also this even then like

391
00:24:16,100 --> 00:24:18,700
they were looking, they were
looking for a spiritual savior,

392
00:24:18,700 --> 00:24:21,800
there were no political savior.
They kind of had that wrong,

393
00:24:22,400 --> 00:24:25,400
right?
And in a kind of an inverse way

394
00:24:25,400 --> 00:24:29,300
today though you know I kind of
agree with you on Trump for the

395
00:24:29,300 --> 00:24:32,600
most part but where we're at now
with them?

396
00:24:32,600 --> 00:24:36,400
What kind of bothers Is me, is
there seems to be a cult around

397
00:24:36,400 --> 00:24:39,900
him, that seems to be this idea
that will you know, he's this

398
00:24:39,900 --> 00:24:45,800
outlet for this anger and this
rage and as Justified as maybe

399
00:24:45,800 --> 00:24:50,800
the abuses that this country has
received recently, maybe I don't

400
00:24:50,800 --> 00:24:53,600
think ultimately, that's really
we're not, we're not going to

401
00:24:53,608 --> 00:24:59,000
find Salvation and Trump, no,
not he's not cheat.

402
00:24:59,000 --> 00:25:01,000
Oh, Jesus.
No, no.

403
00:25:01,500 --> 00:25:04,100
And, and the other thing I'll
say, Is that?

404
00:25:05,200 --> 00:25:09,000
If you look at the American
Revolution, we got right,

405
00:25:09,000 --> 00:25:11,400
spiritually?
First before we did anything any

406
00:25:11,400 --> 00:25:15,200
fighting, right?
You had, you had leaders telling

407
00:25:15,200 --> 00:25:18,100
you, you better go to church.
You better pray for the

408
00:25:18,300 --> 00:25:23,000
protection of Divine Providence.
We had better engage in days of

409
00:25:23,000 --> 00:25:27,800
fasting and humiliation to stay
humble, because we're any God

410
00:25:27,800 --> 00:25:30,600
for this.
And in your anger, you're

411
00:25:30,600 --> 00:25:33,400
typically not looking for God
all the time.

412
00:25:34,100 --> 00:25:36,600
Right.
And your anger your like screw

413
00:25:36,600 --> 00:25:38,300
this.
I'm going to take care of this

414
00:25:38,300 --> 00:25:43,300
myself and usually that's when
things go downhill very quickly.

415
00:25:44,900 --> 00:25:50,800
Yeah, absolutely so and if an a
point here you want to jump in

416
00:25:50,800 --> 00:25:56,900
just jump in. so, the other
thing that I wanted to focus on

417
00:25:58,500 --> 00:26:04,200
Was Peter because Peter gives me
so much hope, right?

418
00:26:04,700 --> 00:26:07,800
When Jesus says, you know where
I'm going?

419
00:26:07,800 --> 00:26:11,300
You can't go and Peter's like
dude I'm with you.

420
00:26:11,300 --> 00:26:13,300
I'm going to I'm going to ride
or die with you.

421
00:26:14,800 --> 00:26:19,100
And then he's like, no, you're
not because before this nights

422
00:26:19,100 --> 00:26:20,700
over here and deny me three
times.

423
00:26:21,900 --> 00:26:27,200
And Peter, I'm sure Peter was
like, no way.

424
00:26:27,300 --> 00:26:30,400
I'm your I'm your boy, you know,
we're not going to go.

425
00:26:30,600 --> 00:26:32,000
You're not going to go through
this alone.

426
00:26:32,000 --> 00:26:34,000
We're going to make sure that
you're okay.

427
00:26:34,500 --> 00:26:39,000
And sure enough, he ends up
doing it but yet he still is

428
00:26:39,000 --> 00:26:42,100
used as a tool for God.
And again, I think that's us a

429
00:26:42,108 --> 00:26:44,800
lot.
I think as humans because of the

430
00:26:44,800 --> 00:26:47,100
human condition, we can run hot
and cold a lot.

431
00:26:48,300 --> 00:26:51,700
Absolutely.
And honestly it to me, that's a

432
00:26:51,700 --> 00:26:56,500
pivotal moment in Peters
Ministry when he realizes that

433
00:26:56,800 --> 00:26:59,000
we were just talking about
Grievous sins and appreciation

434
00:26:59,000 --> 00:27:02,100
for the atonement.
I think that was that was a huge

435
00:27:02,100 --> 00:27:12,000
one for Peter and The fact that
really drove it home that Peter

436
00:27:12,000 --> 00:27:14,400
realized.
Oh my gosh, wow.

437
00:27:14,500 --> 00:27:16,900
This is, this is what I am
without Christ.

438
00:27:16,900 --> 00:27:20,700
I'm I'm nothing and without
relying upon Christ in the

439
00:27:20,700 --> 00:27:22,300
future.
Obviously, he would have

440
00:27:22,300 --> 00:27:25,800
remained a nothing but obviously
he didn't do that because he, he

441
00:27:25,800 --> 00:27:29,600
learned his lesson from that
experience and that experience.

442
00:27:30,000 --> 00:27:32,900
Even even the experience of him
denying Christ through the

443
00:27:32,900 --> 00:27:36,700
atonement.
Actually, cemented his

444
00:27:36,700 --> 00:27:40,500
conviction and his dedication as
a disciple of Christ.

445
00:27:41,200 --> 00:27:43,700
Right.
Right.

446
00:27:44,900 --> 00:27:49,400
You know, the the other one that
gets me is when Jesus is

447
00:27:49,400 --> 00:27:54,700
suffering in the garden, right?
And this is the first time we

448
00:27:54,700 --> 00:28:00,100
see a savior who's truly in
distress, who just wants his

449
00:28:00,100 --> 00:28:05,700
friends to stay awake while he
goes and Does this and they just

450
00:28:05,700 --> 00:28:09,700
can't stay awake.
And there's a lot of symbolism

451
00:28:09,700 --> 00:28:15,600
in that Oh yeah.
Well one of the interesting

452
00:28:15,600 --> 00:28:18,600
things to me in the right.
The restoration scripture brings

453
00:28:18,600 --> 00:28:23,500
forth this idea of the of Christ
and a bitter Cup, right?

454
00:28:23,600 --> 00:28:27,000
And if you've ever drink
anything really bitter before,

455
00:28:27,800 --> 00:28:32,600
it's not just an issue of I
don't want to do this.

456
00:28:32,600 --> 00:28:36,300
There's almost like a
physiological incapacity to your

457
00:28:36,300 --> 00:28:38,700
body.
Just will try to prevent you.

458
00:28:38,700 --> 00:28:47,200
It just no not not happening.
And to me that symbolically,

459
00:28:47,200 --> 00:28:54,300
it's very, very poignant to
describe the atonement that way.

460
00:28:55,300 --> 00:29:00,500
Because I think it priced in
spirit was willing.

461
00:29:00,500 --> 00:29:03,700
Absolutely.
But I don't think maybe going

462
00:29:03,700 --> 00:29:07,700
into that, he quite understood,
the depths of that suffering,

463
00:29:07,700 --> 00:29:11,500
right?
And I think, absolutely, he had

464
00:29:11,500 --> 00:29:16,800
to, White Knuckle his way
through that.

465
00:29:17,300 --> 00:29:22,500
Yeah, it was, it was even for
for Christ to, let's not forget

466
00:29:22,500 --> 00:29:24,400
to Christ, wasn't just a mortal
man.

467
00:29:24,400 --> 00:29:29,700
He was, he was the literal son
of the father.

468
00:29:29,700 --> 00:29:35,600
He was deity incarnate.
He was half God and even for him

469
00:29:35,600 --> 00:29:39,900
to, to want to shirk away from
that, right?

470
00:29:39,900 --> 00:29:46,800
I mean, it just really, really
Drives home, the sacrifice that

471
00:29:46,800 --> 00:29:51,000
he made and the things that he
was willing to do for us do for

472
00:29:51,000 --> 00:29:57,200
me. you know, yeah, and as far
as those apostles who just could

473
00:29:57,200 --> 00:30:03,200
not stay awake, Oftentimes,
there there's times I'll look at

474
00:30:03,200 --> 00:30:06,800
the news or I'll look at what's
happening with in Mormonism and

475
00:30:06,800 --> 00:30:09,500
I want throw my hands up.
I'm like, I don't want to do

476
00:30:09,500 --> 00:30:12,800
this anymore.
It's not making an impact.

477
00:30:12,800 --> 00:30:15,400
I'm done.
I'm gonna go downstairs.

478
00:30:15,700 --> 00:30:18,200
I'm going to turn on football.
I'm going to grab a bag of

479
00:30:18,200 --> 00:30:22,400
Doritos and I'm done right?
Good, screw this.

480
00:30:24,600 --> 00:30:27,700
I think that's the equivalent of
going to sleep now, right?

481
00:30:27,700 --> 00:30:31,600
And we hear this a lot from
people is I'm just going to

482
00:30:31,600 --> 00:30:38,400
disengage and look, I think I
think it's a clever trick,

483
00:30:38,600 --> 00:30:40,800
right?
Because we sometimes look at

484
00:30:40,800 --> 00:30:45,400
disengagement as a means of
safety and maybe on some level

485
00:30:45,400 --> 00:30:50,100
it could be but the problem
doesn't get resolved with

486
00:30:50,100 --> 00:30:54,600
disengagement.
And so there's this idea of

487
00:30:54,600 --> 00:31:01,800
being awake, not woke awake and
being able to to identify what's

488
00:31:01,800 --> 00:31:05,700
happening and understand the
significance of it, right?

489
00:31:05,800 --> 00:31:09,200
Like if there, if an angel had
came down and told them, hey,

490
00:31:09,200 --> 00:31:10,900
you're going to want to pay
attention to this because this

491
00:31:10,900 --> 00:31:15,200
is the pivotal moment in all of
human history, right here, right

492
00:31:15,200 --> 00:31:19,400
in this little garden, 20 yards
away from you, you're going to

493
00:31:19,408 --> 00:31:22,700
want to see this.
I think they'd have been wired,

494
00:31:22,700 --> 00:31:25,600
right?
But because you get the sense

495
00:31:25,600 --> 00:31:27,500
that, you know, they were just
worn down.

496
00:31:28,600 --> 00:31:31,300
You know, these are men who
traveled with the Savior

497
00:31:31,300 --> 00:31:34,500
extensively.
Watch him do Miracles and and,

498
00:31:34,500 --> 00:31:37,300
you know, dealt with the throngs
of people.

499
00:31:37,600 --> 00:31:41,100
And so you get the sense that
maybe they were just worn down.

500
00:31:41,100 --> 00:31:43,900
And I think we're all in that
stage, but I don't think we can

501
00:31:43,900 --> 00:31:48,400
use as an excuse to go to sleep.
You, well, yeah, and it's

502
00:31:48,400 --> 00:31:51,200
interesting thinking about
sleep, how intoxicating it can

503
00:31:51,200 --> 00:31:53,300
be.
Sometimes like, I mean I've got

504
00:31:53,300 --> 00:31:55,200
little kids and, you know, I
wake up in the middle of the

505
00:31:55,208 --> 00:31:59,800
night and it can be so hard to
pull yourself out of that.

506
00:31:59,800 --> 00:32:02,600
Drowsiness sometimes it's kind
of be like the house is on fire

507
00:32:02,600 --> 00:32:07,500
or kids screaming bloody murder.
Otherwise leave me be I'm tired,

508
00:32:07,500 --> 00:32:09,800
you know.
Right.

509
00:32:10,000 --> 00:32:10,800
Right?
Yeah.

510
00:32:11,800 --> 00:32:16,800
And the other thing is, is that
if we're not awake, we can't

511
00:32:16,800 --> 00:32:20,200
bear testimony of what happened,
right?

512
00:32:20,300 --> 00:32:25,800
Think about the, the kind of
testimony, they could have boar

513
00:32:25,800 --> 00:32:26,800
had.
They saw it.

514
00:32:28,300 --> 00:32:32,000
Had they saw him sweat blood
right?

515
00:32:33,500 --> 00:32:37,000
What kind of words would they
have used if we're not awake?

516
00:32:37,100 --> 00:32:40,600
If we're not engaged?
It's pretty hard to testify to

517
00:32:40,600 --> 00:32:45,000
others because when we tend to
disengage today, we don't want

518
00:32:45,000 --> 00:32:47,100
to talk to anybody else.
At least?

519
00:32:47,100 --> 00:32:50,000
I don't again, I want to turn on
football and eat Doritos.

520
00:32:50,000 --> 00:32:57,500
That's my, that's my go-to.
Method of operation but if we're

521
00:32:57,500 --> 00:33:01,500
awake we're engaged.
We can bear testimony of the

522
00:33:01,500 --> 00:33:04,900
Savior.
So I found that very interesting

523
00:33:04,900 --> 00:33:07,600
as well.
Now that's a great analogy, I

524
00:33:07,608 --> 00:33:10,900
like that.
And then the Savior says

525
00:33:10,900 --> 00:33:14,200
something in the garden that I
know we all talk about a little

526
00:33:14,200 --> 00:33:19,900
bit, but I really want to talk
about this for a second.

527
00:33:20,400 --> 00:33:23,600
And that is I think at this
point, Point things are getting

528
00:33:23,600 --> 00:33:27,700
real and and the Savior can feel
the weight beginning to press on

529
00:33:27,700 --> 00:33:30,400
him.
And he said, let this cup pass.

530
00:33:30,400 --> 00:33:32,200
Please father, let this cup
pass.

531
00:33:33,600 --> 00:33:38,900
But your will be done.
In that moment the Savior

532
00:33:38,900 --> 00:33:44,100
surrenders his Ultimate Will to
his father knowing full.

533
00:33:44,100 --> 00:33:51,300
Well was about to transpire.
God will intercede in a many,

534
00:33:51,300 --> 00:33:54,300
many things.
But the one thing, he'll never

535
00:33:54,300 --> 00:33:59,500
touch is our agency that's for
us to choose with, and if he

536
00:33:59,500 --> 00:34:02,700
violates that, I think it's one
of those Eternal laws, he ceased

537
00:34:02,700 --> 00:34:05,900
to be God.
How do we get to a point to

538
00:34:05,900 --> 00:34:08,400
where we can offer, our will up
to the father?

539
00:34:09,800 --> 00:34:14,199
in a similar fashion as the
Savior did, Because I think

540
00:34:14,199 --> 00:34:16,400
that's really the only thing we
can give him right?

541
00:34:18,199 --> 00:34:21,400
Well, yeah, that's the, you
know, the king, Benjamin address

542
00:34:21,600 --> 00:34:26,500
their, you have people that are
taught about their coming savior

543
00:34:27,500 --> 00:34:30,000
or not.
I came King the no yeah King

544
00:34:30,000 --> 00:34:35,400
Benjamin in mosiah where he
teaches the people that they

545
00:34:35,400 --> 00:34:38,000
need a savior.
You know he explains even me I'm

546
00:34:38,000 --> 00:34:41,400
your king and you know I'm just
I'm the dust I'm less than the

547
00:34:41,400 --> 00:34:44,300
dust of the Earth.
The dust at least obeys God.

548
00:34:44,300 --> 00:34:47,500
I mean us, I mean us, Mortals,
we don't even do that.

549
00:34:47,500 --> 00:34:54,000
So, That testimony that he Bears
to the people about their coming

550
00:34:54,000 --> 00:34:59,000
savior, causes a transformation
in them where they're basically

551
00:34:59,200 --> 00:35:01,400
is exactly what it is.
They are at that point where

552
00:35:01,400 --> 00:35:05,700
they were are willing and
desirous to put their hearts but

553
00:35:05,700 --> 00:35:09,200
their agency put their will on
that Altar and and give it all

554
00:35:09,200 --> 00:35:12,100
to God and Mark that with a
covenant.

555
00:35:13,200 --> 00:35:17,600
And you know I think that's
really a beautiful Barton Book

556
00:35:17,600 --> 00:35:19,300
of Mormon and a beautiful
example.

557
00:35:19,300 --> 00:35:21,700
But you know in our own lives I
don't know II.

558
00:35:21,700 --> 00:35:25,200
There's been times when I have
been In.

559
00:35:25,300 --> 00:35:27,900
Well, there's been times where
I've been in the depths of

560
00:35:27,900 --> 00:35:34,700
Despair and in a kind of a anti
reverse atonement aspect.

561
00:35:34,700 --> 00:35:38,700
It's like in that despair,
anything, I'll do anything.

562
00:35:38,700 --> 00:35:42,400
Lord, I Surrender, my agency
also enter, my will deliver me

563
00:35:42,400 --> 00:35:44,900
please, because I can't endure
this.

564
00:35:44,900 --> 00:35:51,300
I can't bear this.
That's probably for me, been

565
00:35:51,300 --> 00:35:55,500
some of the, the most
transformational experiences has

566
00:35:55,500 --> 00:35:58,300
been.
When I, when I was in some of my

567
00:35:58,308 --> 00:36:00,400
darkest places and that's not
necessarily even necessarily

568
00:36:00,400 --> 00:36:03,400
consequence of sin.
Well, I mean, probably

569
00:36:03,400 --> 00:36:07,500
ultimately, all of that is but
sometimes we experience,

570
00:36:08,000 --> 00:36:10,800
horrible devastating effects in
our life because of something.

571
00:36:10,800 --> 00:36:14,200
Other people do to us, or even
sometimes, even just natural

572
00:36:14,200 --> 00:36:17,700
things happen.
And, you know, there's no Mal

573
00:36:17,700 --> 00:36:20,600
Intent, no clear, right?
I'm a reason things happen.

574
00:36:21,200 --> 00:36:25,500
I lost a loved one last summer,
my family and things happen.

575
00:36:25,500 --> 00:36:29,500
Sometimes that put us in these
places where we get

576
00:36:29,500 --> 00:36:33,300
opportunities to really decide.
What are we going to do?

577
00:36:33,400 --> 00:36:35,300
Are we going to just go to
sleep?

578
00:36:35,700 --> 00:36:39,000
Are we going to just turn to
something else and just try to

579
00:36:39,000 --> 00:36:41,400
numb our pain?
Or are we going to go to God?

580
00:36:41,400 --> 00:36:44,200
And in those moments, I think
that's when we really clearly

581
00:36:44,200 --> 00:36:50,200
here that still Small Voice say
That what the words asking, if

582
00:36:50,200 --> 00:36:54,300
he's asking, for a sacrifice of
our, of our hearts, he wants our

583
00:36:54,500 --> 00:36:56,600
hearts.
Yeah.

584
00:36:56,600 --> 00:37:01,000
And and that's, and that can be
the toughest thing to surrender,

585
00:37:01,800 --> 00:37:05,200
right?
And I remember, I remember my

586
00:37:05,200 --> 00:37:10,400
first real time when I had to
surrender, right?

587
00:37:10,500 --> 00:37:15,800
Which was so, so let me go back
because there's actually a story

588
00:37:15,800 --> 00:37:18,700
of how I got to the This this
place and it's not my fight

589
00:37:18,700 --> 00:37:24,600
against still to this day.
When my old man passed away, I

590
00:37:24,600 --> 00:37:28,800
was getting, I was a freshman in
high school, and I was getting

591
00:37:28,800 --> 00:37:38,900
ready to wrestle for four
qualifiers for state, and my dad

592
00:37:38,900 --> 00:37:42,800
had passed away that Tuesday.
And I was supposed to wrestle

593
00:37:43,100 --> 00:37:47,500
Friday night, and my coach came
to me, He came to the house.

594
00:37:47,500 --> 00:37:52,400
He said, look, here's the deal.
I was able to get a variance so

595
00:37:53,100 --> 00:37:57,700
we will set up a special
tournament at a neutral site or

596
00:37:57,700 --> 00:38:00,300
a special match a neutral site.
So you can wrestle at a

597
00:38:00,300 --> 00:38:03,400
different time.
And I sat there and I thought

598
00:38:03,400 --> 00:38:07,700
about for a minute and I went no
no.

599
00:38:07,700 --> 00:38:12,700
I want to do this right now.
You know, I want to do it at its

600
00:38:12,700 --> 00:38:15,000
normal time, I want to get this
done.

601
00:38:16,500 --> 00:38:21,800
And I was going up against a guy
who had really just kicked my

602
00:38:21,800 --> 00:38:25,000
rear all over the mat three
times before during the season.

603
00:38:26,100 --> 00:38:31,200
And so we get we get to the
point where the match happens

604
00:38:31,200 --> 00:38:34,300
and I remember it was the
strangest thought and I'm not

605
00:38:34,300 --> 00:38:37,000
sure where it came from, but I
remember I stepped on the mat

606
00:38:37,000 --> 00:38:40,500
and I thought I've heard all
week long and I'm not going to

607
00:38:40,508 --> 00:38:44,100
hurt today.
I can control everything inside

608
00:38:44,100 --> 00:38:49,100
of this circle.
If I Really want to and I did.

609
00:38:49,600 --> 00:38:53,400
But what that did Justin is even
though I won that match and it

610
00:38:53,400 --> 00:38:57,900
gave me a little bit of reprieve
a little reprieve, excuse me

611
00:38:58,300 --> 00:39:04,800
from my pain.
It it it for it.

612
00:39:04,800 --> 00:39:09,600
Kind of put this idea in my head
that no matter what the

613
00:39:09,600 --> 00:39:14,500
situation is, I'll just I'll
just force it to my will.

614
00:39:15,000 --> 00:39:19,300
I'll just bend it to my will?
I will just force it to go my

615
00:39:19,300 --> 00:39:22,400
way.
And in some ways that served me

616
00:39:22,400 --> 00:39:25,500
very well.
But in other ways, it didn't

617
00:39:25,700 --> 00:39:29,800
because there's some things that
we can't do we are mortal.

618
00:39:30,200 --> 00:39:35,400
We cannot affect certain things
and when we get in that stage,

619
00:39:35,400 --> 00:39:38,200
it's a form of Pride.
Right now, I recognize that in

620
00:39:38,200 --> 00:39:42,500
myself now is that, that was a
very prideful attitude to take

621
00:39:44,700 --> 00:39:51,900
and so, we get to a point to
where I think all of us who are

622
00:39:51,900 --> 00:39:54,700
trying to be Disciples of
Christ, we've got to get to that

623
00:39:54,700 --> 00:39:58,900
point to where we're willing to
just be like, you know, I've

624
00:39:58,900 --> 00:40:00,900
tried it my way, this is not
working.

625
00:40:00,900 --> 00:40:04,800
I remember my, I remember mine
is clear as day looking in the

626
00:40:04,800 --> 00:40:10,000
mirror.
And realizing, oh, I'm horrible.

627
00:40:10,100 --> 00:40:16,500
I got, I've done horrible things
to good people and in this

628
00:40:16,500 --> 00:40:18,900
effort to bend everything to my
will.

629
00:40:21,200 --> 00:40:23,800
And as soon as I was willing to
look up into the heavens and

630
00:40:23,800 --> 00:40:26,700
tell God, okay, I've screwed
this all up.

631
00:40:27,100 --> 00:40:29,500
This is all on me.
I've done all this.

632
00:40:30,300 --> 00:40:32,400
Help me now, I'll do whatever it
is.

633
00:40:32,400 --> 00:40:35,100
You want me to do, you have my
undivided attention?

634
00:40:35,500 --> 00:40:38,900
I will do whatever it is, and I
think we got to get to that

635
00:40:38,900 --> 00:40:41,200
point.
But the question is, is how do

636
00:40:41,200 --> 00:40:43,700
we get there?
And then, how can we stay there?

637
00:40:45,400 --> 00:40:48,500
It's one thing to talk about
offering up your will, it's

638
00:40:48,500 --> 00:40:55,500
another thing to do it.
Well, I think that's why the

639
00:40:55,500 --> 00:40:57,600
Lord directs our lives to be
honest.

640
00:40:57,600 --> 00:41:00,900
I think I am a firm believer
that nothing in life is an

641
00:41:00,900 --> 00:41:03,600
accident.
Nothing is nothing is by chance.

642
00:41:03,600 --> 00:41:07,500
All of this is a very, very
carefully.

643
00:41:07,500 --> 00:41:15,000
Orchestrated plan to present us
with exactly what we need and no

644
00:41:15,000 --> 00:41:20,200
more. should be able to truly
find out who we are and find out

645
00:41:20,200 --> 00:41:24,900
whether we're going to turn to
Christ or what, you know, when I

646
00:41:24,900 --> 00:41:31,900
got back from my mission and I
was just on fire and I was Like,

647
00:41:31,900 --> 00:41:35,100
all right, I've done my mission.
Next Step get married.

648
00:41:35,100 --> 00:41:38,900
Start a family.
And so, I went about to do that

649
00:41:39,400 --> 00:41:42,500
and time passes.
And I go about to do it some

650
00:41:42,500 --> 00:41:46,300
more and time passes.
And and I just have failed

651
00:41:46,300 --> 00:41:48,700
relationship after failed
relationship.

652
00:41:49,000 --> 00:41:55,600
And I was actually in my 30s.
And at this point I have I had

653
00:41:55,600 --> 00:41:58,500
like seen at all.
I have been through just about

654
00:41:58,500 --> 00:42:03,600
any kind of problematic.
Interpersonal, relationship,

655
00:42:03,600 --> 00:42:06,700
love tight situation.
You could possibly imagine I

656
00:42:06,700 --> 00:42:12,600
have made every mistake in the
book and I was with, I was

657
00:42:12,600 --> 00:42:14,400
traveling with my
brother-in-law.

658
00:42:14,400 --> 00:42:19,300
We stopped at some some of his
in-laws to stop for conference.

659
00:42:20,100 --> 00:42:26,400
And I'm in my, I'm in my 30s now
and he has a, he has this this

660
00:42:26,500 --> 00:42:29,900
Aunt, who does this face reading
stuff?

661
00:42:29,900 --> 00:42:34,600
Kind of a kind of a Parlor
trick, but but you know, she'll

662
00:42:34,600 --> 00:42:36,900
look at your nose, your ears,
and your eyes, and she'll like

663
00:42:36,900 --> 00:42:40,700
Divine, your personality and
character stuff like that.

664
00:42:41,200 --> 00:42:45,600
And you know, I was just there
Chillin, havin fun and I was

665
00:42:45,600 --> 00:42:48,700
like, oh sure, why not?
You know, get my get my tarot

666
00:42:48,700 --> 00:42:52,600
card reading.
So she's she's looking at me.

667
00:42:52,600 --> 00:42:55,300
I can remember something, like,
something about my ears or

668
00:42:55,300 --> 00:42:58,600
imbalanced and that means I'm
not a very generous person I

669
00:42:58,607 --> 00:43:00,300
thought, huh?
I don't know.

670
00:43:01,000 --> 00:43:04,900
Maybe that's true.
I'd it doesn't I don't feel that

671
00:43:04,900 --> 00:43:10,400
way, but then she really latched
onto something and, you know, at

672
00:43:10,400 --> 00:43:14,400
the time part of me thinking,
well, duh, if I'm, if I'm a

673
00:43:14,400 --> 00:43:17,400
devout Mormon, I'm, I'm 31 or
32.

674
00:43:17,400 --> 00:43:20,400
I'm not married yet.
Obviously, you know, there's

675
00:43:21,100 --> 00:43:26,200
there's trouble there but she
looked at me, she's like, You

676
00:43:27,000 --> 00:43:32,400
are afraid of having a series of
serious relationships and so you

677
00:43:32,400 --> 00:43:37,600
sabotage every relationship
you're in and that really stung

678
00:43:38,000 --> 00:43:42,400
it really, really stung and it
really troubled me and I

679
00:43:42,400 --> 00:43:45,600
remember I went to bed that
night just in kind of turmoil

680
00:43:45,600 --> 00:43:49,500
about this.
And this turmoil brought came to

681
00:43:49,500 --> 00:43:52,000
a head that next morning and I
just, I got up.

682
00:43:52,400 --> 00:43:54,700
I wandered off into the end of
the day.

683
00:43:54,800 --> 00:43:58,800
Desert.
And Found this River and I just

684
00:43:58,800 --> 00:44:04,500
knelt down and I and I was at my
limit I'm like, what is going on

685
00:44:04,500 --> 00:44:08,700
and what I don't care what it
is, I just want to be fixed, I

686
00:44:08,700 --> 00:44:10,600
want to be able to have a
family.

687
00:44:11,300 --> 00:44:13,400
I want a wife who I can love and
who loves me?

688
00:44:13,400 --> 00:44:17,200
I want children that I can do my
best to raise.

689
00:44:17,200 --> 00:44:20,700
These are experiences that are
really really important to me

690
00:44:21,400 --> 00:44:24,800
and I haven't been able to find.
I haven't mailed to do this, I

691
00:44:24,800 --> 00:44:26,100
don't know why, I don't know
why.

692
00:44:26,100 --> 00:44:28,700
Maybe maybe she's right.
Right, maybe I am sabotage.

693
00:44:28,700 --> 00:44:33,200
So I just in, in probably the
most absolute state of humility

694
00:44:33,200 --> 00:44:34,900
in my life.
I knelt down.

695
00:44:34,900 --> 00:44:37,400
And I asked, God, what is wrong
with me?

696
00:44:38,500 --> 00:44:42,200
And whatever it is, I will fix
it.

697
00:44:42,300 --> 00:44:45,600
I will do whatever it takes.
Just I, I Surrender myself to

698
00:44:45,600 --> 00:44:48,000
thee.
If it's I self-sabotage, then

699
00:44:48,000 --> 00:44:51,400
I'll accept that.
Just show me how to overcome it.

700
00:44:51,400 --> 00:44:53,500
If it's something else, show me
what it is.

701
00:44:53,500 --> 00:44:57,000
And but I need, I need help.
I can't do this.

702
00:44:57,100 --> 00:45:02,200
I can't do this alone.
And, you know, I had a very,

703
00:45:02,500 --> 00:45:07,300
very powerful sacred experience
with the Lord and I received my

704
00:45:07,700 --> 00:45:10,100
ending of what I needed.
I was willing to surrender

705
00:45:10,100 --> 00:45:13,000
anything, you know, even even
these dreams in these ideas of

706
00:45:13,000 --> 00:45:15,300
having a family, if need be, if
that wasn't my lot in life.

707
00:45:15,300 --> 00:45:20,100
If the Lord said, hey, it hasn't
happened because I need you to

708
00:45:20,100 --> 00:45:24,000
be some kind of a celibate monk,
okay, if that's what if that's

709
00:45:24,000 --> 00:45:25,200
my plan.
If that's your plan for me in

710
00:45:25,200 --> 00:45:29,100
this life, I'll take it.
But I need some resolution here,

711
00:45:29,100 --> 00:45:32,800
right?
And I got I got some resolution

712
00:45:33,200 --> 00:45:38,200
and I mean, it was literally, No
more than two months after that

713
00:45:38,200 --> 00:45:40,300
experience.
I think two months, maybe three

714
00:45:40,300 --> 00:45:44,500
months and I was married.
But it didn't really happen

715
00:45:44,500 --> 00:45:50,000
until I finally complete and
complete abject utter humility

716
00:45:50,000 --> 00:45:52,900
and absolute nakedness
prostrated myself before God.

717
00:45:52,900 --> 00:45:55,600
And just said, help me, please
help me.

718
00:45:55,600 --> 00:45:58,500
I need help.
I can't, I can't do this.

719
00:45:58,500 --> 00:46:07,500
I can't do this on my own. you
know, I think I think God loves

720
00:46:07,500 --> 00:46:12,600
broken people a lot because I
think they're people, he can

721
00:46:12,600 --> 00:46:18,700
work with I think when
everything is going good, we

722
00:46:18,700 --> 00:46:22,100
have a tendency to get real fat
and happy, right?

723
00:46:22,100 --> 00:46:27,900
We we get real complacent real
quickly and in a state of

724
00:46:27,900 --> 00:46:34,400
Brokenness, we can tend to, We
tend to go seeking for answers

725
00:46:35,000 --> 00:46:39,100
and we tend to go looking for
God in those moments and

726
00:46:40,100 --> 00:46:45,300
oftentimes that's where he
that's that's when we were

727
00:46:45,300 --> 00:46:48,300
finally ready to meet him on his
terms, right?

728
00:46:48,300 --> 00:46:52,900
As when we've become broken, he
even Joseph Smith, right?

729
00:46:52,900 --> 00:46:57,300
I mean, this is a young man who
has tormented in his soul about

730
00:46:57,300 --> 00:47:01,200
his brother Alvin about which
church he should join about.

731
00:47:01,200 --> 00:47:03,000
You know, what's going to happen
to his family?

732
00:47:03,000 --> 00:47:07,500
This is a kid who's, who's
feeling this weight and

733
00:47:07,500 --> 00:47:11,800
somewhat, I would say probably a
little broken in some ways and

734
00:47:11,800 --> 00:47:14,700
as he kneels down, I mean that's
the beginning of it.

735
00:47:15,400 --> 00:47:18,900
I also find it interesting that
it seems to be the darkest

736
00:47:18,900 --> 00:47:23,100
moments.
That light really bursts forth.

737
00:47:23,400 --> 00:47:26,900
I mean and we'll cover the
savior's experience on this here

738
00:47:26,900 --> 00:47:30,100
in a second.
But Let's talk about Joseph

739
00:47:30,100 --> 00:47:34,300
Smith for a moment.
Joseph Smith's darkest time.

740
00:47:36,100 --> 00:47:40,700
One of his darkest times.
Is just moments.

741
00:47:42,200 --> 00:47:46,700
Proceeding the bursting forth of
heavenly light.

742
00:47:47,700 --> 00:47:52,100
And having a theophany that
would change certainly

743
00:47:52,100 --> 00:47:56,400
christened him forever if not
the entire religious world.

744
00:47:57,500 --> 00:48:03,800
So our darkest moments can Can
become our.

745
00:48:06,100 --> 00:48:10,500
Salvation in some way, right?
Are that that a powerful time of

746
00:48:10,500 --> 00:48:13,100
change?
I'll absolutely the prophets of

747
00:48:13,100 --> 00:48:17,500
old Abraham, the dries moment of
his life as he's heading up the

748
00:48:17,500 --> 00:48:19,300
mountain with Isaac.
Yeah.

749
00:48:20,000 --> 00:48:26,800
And And I firmly believe that it
was from that experience that he

750
00:48:26,800 --> 00:48:29,400
received all of those blessings
and Covenants from the Lord.

751
00:48:29,400 --> 00:48:33,700
He was because he went through
that that he received that Moses

752
00:48:35,000 --> 00:48:38,400
in the book of Moses.
You know, where we know that he,

753
00:48:38,600 --> 00:48:40,800
he sees God and then the Devil
Comes.

754
00:48:41,900 --> 00:48:46,900
And in that struggle afterwards,
Lord returns to him again, and

755
00:48:46,900 --> 00:48:50,800
he has his Grand Vision and sees
the end from the beginning and

756
00:48:50,800 --> 00:48:54,600
just that whole amazing thing.
I mean, there's just so many

757
00:48:54,600 --> 00:48:59,600
accounts of a Darkness, kind of
proceeding a light Jonah and the

758
00:48:59,600 --> 00:49:02,700
whale even right?
Yeah, he's running away from

759
00:49:02,700 --> 00:49:06,000
God, he's he's knocking.
He's, he's gonna do his own

760
00:49:06,000 --> 00:49:09,700
will.
And, and then, you know, he

761
00:49:09,700 --> 00:49:11,100
spends some time on those stormy
seas.

762
00:49:11,200 --> 00:49:15,000
He's and and then in the, in the
great fish, and after that, he's

763
00:49:15,000 --> 00:49:18,100
he's ready to surrender, his
will to God and see what God has

764
00:49:18,100 --> 00:49:19,300
to do.
And that was a hard thing for

765
00:49:19,300 --> 00:49:22,800
Jonah to do as well as she needs
to be understood that the never

766
00:49:22,800 --> 00:49:26,200
nights were were terrible
terrible.

767
00:49:27,100 --> 00:49:29,600
Commit horrible.
Atrocities on the Israelite

768
00:49:29,600 --> 00:49:31,200
people.
Yeah.

769
00:49:31,200 --> 00:49:32,800
So it was not an easy thing to
go.

770
00:49:32,800 --> 00:49:37,400
Preach repentance to your
greatest enemy that would be

771
00:49:37,400 --> 00:49:41,200
like, you know, imagine getting
called to go preach repentance.

772
00:49:41,300 --> 00:49:43,200
Thence to, you know, the White
House.

773
00:49:44,100 --> 00:49:46,000
Yeah.
You'd be like, no, I don't.

774
00:49:46,400 --> 00:49:47,800
I don't want those guys to
repent.

775
00:49:47,800 --> 00:49:52,300
How are those guys go to hell?
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,

776
00:49:52,400 --> 00:49:57,100
absolutely.
You know, I remember So this was

777
00:49:57,100 --> 00:49:59,600
before I was a father, like,
right?

778
00:49:59,600 --> 00:50:04,500
Before hours before.
This is when we were still in

779
00:50:04,500 --> 00:50:08,600
the LDS church.
And me and my wife got married,

780
00:50:08,600 --> 00:50:12,400
civilly.
First, because you were just in

781
00:50:12,400 --> 00:50:15,000
love and wanted to get married,
so we had to do the obligatory

782
00:50:15,000 --> 00:50:16,800
now.
You got to wait a year kind of

783
00:50:16,800 --> 00:50:20,000
thing.
To go through the temple.

784
00:50:20,800 --> 00:50:24,100
So I'm like, this is cool.
We'll go ahead and we'll spend

785
00:50:24,100 --> 00:50:26,700
time.
This will be good for us, you

786
00:50:26,700 --> 00:50:29,000
know, we can spend time
grounding ourselves to the

787
00:50:29,000 --> 00:50:32,700
gospel and grounding ourselves
to the Lord, and we'll work the

788
00:50:32,700 --> 00:50:35,600
plan, right?
So we make sure.

789
00:50:35,600 --> 00:50:38,700
I mean, we're Johnny on the spot
when it comes to our tithing, we

790
00:50:38,700 --> 00:50:41,100
are johnny-on-the-spot with our
church attendance.

791
00:50:41,100 --> 00:50:43,800
We are johnny-on-the-spot with
our scripture study and prayers

792
00:50:43,800 --> 00:50:48,200
at home and our Temple prep
class and about two weeks.

793
00:50:48,300 --> 00:50:54,000
Weeks before we are scheduled to
go through the temple, which my

794
00:50:54,000 --> 00:50:59,000
wife by now is really pregnant.
She's about, she's about six and

795
00:50:59,000 --> 00:51:03,600
a half months along and we're
like, okay we're getting close

796
00:51:03,600 --> 00:51:10,200
and then something happens, her
grandfather dies and we find out

797
00:51:10,200 --> 00:51:12,200
when the funeral is and we're
like no big deal.

798
00:51:12,200 --> 00:51:15,600
We can get up there and back in
time to do the session will have

799
00:51:15,600 --> 00:51:19,700
you know, three days to spare
So, we go up to Washington state

800
00:51:19,700 --> 00:51:23,200
from Idaho.
We go to the funeral and her mom

801
00:51:23,200 --> 00:51:28,800
says, hey, can you postpone your
endowment and your ceiling just

802
00:51:28,800 --> 00:51:32,700
a couple of days because I got
to clean up some stuff here from

803
00:51:32,700 --> 00:51:35,600
my dad, right?
I gotta, I gotta go through his

804
00:51:35,600 --> 00:51:39,600
papers and we got to get all the
insurance stuff, all situated,

805
00:51:40,400 --> 00:51:42,900
and I was bummed, but I
understood I'm like, yep.

806
00:51:42,900 --> 00:51:44,200
Yep.
You know, whatever.

807
00:51:44,200 --> 00:51:49,400
So we go back home, we
reschedule and then literally

808
00:51:49,500 --> 00:51:51,600
the day before we're supposed to
go through the Temple.

809
00:51:51,600 --> 00:51:53,900
My wife starts going into
premature labor.

810
00:51:55,200 --> 00:51:58,100
And so she Wheels, you know,
they wheel her into the

811
00:51:58,107 --> 00:52:02,300
emergency room, they stopped
the, they stop the contractions,

812
00:52:02,700 --> 00:52:05,100
but the doctor comes in.
He says, look, she needs to be

813
00:52:05,100 --> 00:52:10,400
flat on her back and I could
tell by the old Celestial smile

814
00:52:10,400 --> 00:52:15,000
under his white shirt that he
was a Mormon and I said, look,

815
00:52:16,000 --> 00:52:19,400
Here's the deal.
We are literally a day or so

816
00:52:19,400 --> 00:52:20,900
away from going through the
temple.

817
00:52:21,700 --> 00:52:24,500
And I remember he looked down
and he just kind of kicked the

818
00:52:24,500 --> 00:52:26,900
floor a little bit.
He said, look, you've never been

819
00:52:26,900 --> 00:52:30,600
through but trust me, there's a
lot of standing up and sitting

820
00:52:30,600 --> 00:52:34,400
down and if she got because this
was before some of the changes

821
00:52:34,400 --> 00:52:37,800
had taken place.
And he says, if you go through

822
00:52:37,800 --> 00:52:40,100
there, I promise you, you're not
going to get through the

823
00:52:40,107 --> 00:52:43,300
session.
She will be right back here and

824
00:52:43,300 --> 00:52:45,400
we will be Wheeling her out of
the temple.

825
00:52:46,300 --> 00:52:49,200
So you're going to have to wait
till after the baby's born and I

826
00:52:49,200 --> 00:52:52,900
was devastated devastated,
right?

827
00:52:53,200 --> 00:52:56,200
Because I so wanted my child to
be born under the Covenant.

828
00:52:57,000 --> 00:53:01,100
Oh yeah.
And then But I'm like, it's

829
00:53:01,100 --> 00:53:03,500
okay, it's alright, we're going
to stay patient.

830
00:53:03,500 --> 00:53:06,600
Wearing continue to work this
plan and then as soon as

831
00:53:06,600 --> 00:53:10,600
everybody's healthy and strong
enough after after the baby

832
00:53:10,600 --> 00:53:12,500
comes, we'll go through the
temple.

833
00:53:15,600 --> 00:53:23,300
Amber goes into labor and she
has the baby and everything

834
00:53:23,300 --> 00:53:25,800
seems fine, right?
Everything seems fine.

835
00:53:26,600 --> 00:53:30,000
Her mom goes in to see Amber and
I said, hey why your mom's here?

836
00:53:30,000 --> 00:53:34,600
I'm going to go check out our
son and so I go in and I start

837
00:53:34,600 --> 00:53:43,500
checking on him and All of a
sudden these these monitor start

838
00:53:43,500 --> 00:53:49,300
going off, big-time just beeping
everywhere where my son's at,

839
00:53:49,600 --> 00:53:52,800
and the nurses rush in, and they
kind of pushed me out of the

840
00:53:52,808 --> 00:53:55,600
way.
Doctor comes in listens to him.

841
00:53:55,600 --> 00:53:59,100
He's like, he's got pneumonia.
We don't have the facilities

842
00:53:59,100 --> 00:54:01,700
here in Caldwell, take care of
it.

843
00:54:01,900 --> 00:54:09,800
We need to ship him to Boise.
Okay, so I start, I start, you

844
00:54:09,800 --> 00:54:13,900
know, I'm here, I'm watching
them work on my son, and I got

845
00:54:13,900 --> 00:54:16,800
this primal thing going on in my
gut that I didn't know I had,

846
00:54:16,800 --> 00:54:19,400
right?
When you become a parent, things

847
00:54:19,400 --> 00:54:22,700
change drastically.
I'm and I'm all of 19 years old,

848
00:54:22,700 --> 00:54:28,300
by the way, right?
I'm not, I'm not, I'm young and

849
00:54:30,000 --> 00:54:33,000
as I'm watching them, this nurse
comes up and she's like, I need

850
00:54:33,000 --> 00:54:35,800
you back in your, in, your
wife's room right now, she just

851
00:54:35,800 --> 00:54:41,800
passed out And I'm like, what in
the hell is happening right now?

852
00:54:42,500 --> 00:54:45,700
So I run into my wife's room and
sure enough, they're picking her

853
00:54:45,700 --> 00:54:48,700
up off the floor.
My mother-in-law is gone.

854
00:54:48,800 --> 00:54:54,000
I have no one else there, but my
adrenaline is now going hard,

855
00:54:54,000 --> 00:54:59,900
right?
Hard, and I start, I start

856
00:54:59,900 --> 00:55:06,100
really getting worked up and I
call her mom back, we get ahold

857
00:55:06,100 --> 00:55:08,000
of her shoe.
This was 96.

858
00:55:08,000 --> 00:55:09,500
Six.
So she had a pager.

859
00:55:10,000 --> 00:55:11,700
So I was able to get a hold of
her pager.

860
00:55:11,700 --> 00:55:13,500
If she turns around, she comes
back.

861
00:55:14,800 --> 00:55:17,700
And I'm watching them work on my
son.

862
00:55:17,700 --> 00:55:21,100
So so I be in the room, I'd make
sure a okay and then I jump over

863
00:55:21,100 --> 00:55:23,500
and I look at my son and make
sure he was okay, and I was just

864
00:55:23,500 --> 00:55:26,000
bouncing everywhere.
And finally there like we got

865
00:55:26,000 --> 00:55:29,100
get your son to Boise.
We're going to put him in an

866
00:55:29,100 --> 00:55:32,900
ambulance and get him there.
And this is, this is late

867
00:55:32,900 --> 00:55:37,500
September.
And I'm talking to my

868
00:55:37,500 --> 00:55:40,200
mother-in-law, my wife and the
doctors looking at my wife.

869
00:55:40,200 --> 00:55:42,300
He's like, she's just exhausted
as all.

870
00:55:43,000 --> 00:55:45,900
And so, my wife says you go, you
follow the ambulance.

871
00:55:47,500 --> 00:55:50,300
So I'm driving it.
Excuse me.

872
00:55:50,800 --> 00:55:55,500
I'm driving, and it's just a
crappy night.

873
00:55:55,600 --> 00:56:00,400
I mean the rain is coming down
in sheets and I'm in the car and

874
00:56:00,400 --> 00:56:04,700
as soon as the door shuts I look
up into the above me.

875
00:56:04,700 --> 00:56:07,300
I'm like you and me are going to
have this out right now.

876
00:56:07,900 --> 00:56:10,300
Right now I have done
everything.

877
00:56:10,300 --> 00:56:13,200
You've asked me to do, I have
done everything.

878
00:56:13,200 --> 00:56:16,200
You wanted me to do.
Why are you putting me in this

879
00:56:16,200 --> 00:56:20,400
position?
I don't understand and I do this

880
00:56:20,400 --> 00:56:23,100
for the whole drive and it's
about a half hour drive from

881
00:56:23,100 --> 00:56:24,700
Caldwell.
The downtown Boise were the

882
00:56:24,700 --> 00:56:27,300
hospitalist.
And I mean, I'm keeping up with

883
00:56:27,300 --> 00:56:32,500
the ambulance, I'm doing pretty
good and they wheel them in and

884
00:56:32,500 --> 00:56:38,200
the nurses start working on him
and they get him stabilized.

885
00:56:38,400 --> 00:56:44,800
He's resting comfortably and I'm
just there by myself, And

886
00:56:44,800 --> 00:56:46,900
there's a little chapel down in
st.

887
00:56:46,900 --> 00:56:50,700
Luke's hospital that you can
just go and sit and I'm like,

888
00:56:50,700 --> 00:56:53,400
yeah, we're going to have some
more talks because I have not

889
00:56:53,400 --> 00:56:57,000
gotten an answer yet.
I have not gotten an answer yet.

890
00:56:59,200 --> 00:57:04,700
and I remember, I was I'm
ashamed to admit this.

891
00:57:04,700 --> 00:57:08,900
I was very, very arrogant and
how I question, God.

892
00:57:10,700 --> 00:57:13,100
What are you doing?
What is the plan here?

893
00:57:13,600 --> 00:57:17,800
You're going to let my son die
without without being sealed to

894
00:57:17,800 --> 00:57:20,100
me and I'm doing everything.
You're asking me to do.

895
00:57:20,500 --> 00:57:28,600
Why what have I done wrong?
and in that moment, it wasn't an

896
00:57:28,600 --> 00:57:32,400
audible voice but it they were
words that came in my mind with

897
00:57:32,400 --> 00:57:38,200
such force that just said be
still and know that I am and I

898
00:57:38,200 --> 00:57:40,500
have your son.
Like I have you right now.

899
00:57:42,000 --> 00:57:46,700
And I love him every much.
As I love you, you're going to

900
00:57:46,700 --> 00:57:50,300
get through this but you have
got to slow down so you can

901
00:57:50,300 --> 00:57:53,500
learn the lessons.
You have been so wrapped up in

902
00:57:53,508 --> 00:57:57,400
the checklists that you haven't
stopped to think about what they

903
00:57:57,400 --> 00:58:01,900
really meant and so much to my
chagrin.

904
00:58:01,900 --> 00:58:06,000
I realized he had the Lord was
right again, I been checking

905
00:58:06,000 --> 00:58:12,900
boxes without letting it.
Percolate into my heart now

906
00:58:13,700 --> 00:58:15,900
ultimately, I'm a
fundamentalist.

907
00:58:15,900 --> 00:58:19,200
So in the long run, it probably
didn't matter a whole bunch, but

908
00:58:19,200 --> 00:58:25,600
in that moment, it was, it was a
crisis that needed resolved,

909
00:58:25,600 --> 00:58:26,400
right?
Then.

910
00:58:27,300 --> 00:58:31,700
And in that moment, was another
one of those, those pivot Points

911
00:58:32,100 --> 00:58:34,600
where I realized.
Okay, I've got to surrender.

912
00:58:34,600 --> 00:58:39,200
My will here.
Again, I have to, I have to I

913
00:58:39,200 --> 00:58:41,700
have to go deeper than checking
boxes.

914
00:58:44,300 --> 00:58:48,300
Yeah, that's beautiful.
Well, I wouldn't say that it

915
00:58:48,300 --> 00:58:50,300
didn't mean anything either.
I think it meant a lot.

916
00:58:50,300 --> 00:58:54,100
I mean, in all of our Lives the
things that come into it or

917
00:58:54,100 --> 00:58:57,100
stepping stones and there you
know these experiences happen to

918
00:58:57,100 --> 00:59:02,300
us for our growth but I mean
like I would not be the person I

919
00:59:02,308 --> 00:59:04,900
am today.
If I hadn't liked been a

920
00:59:04,900 --> 00:59:10,300
missionary for the LDS church
that was fundamental and I'd say

921
00:59:10,300 --> 00:59:14,700
existential to the person that I
am today and so I think those

922
00:59:14,700 --> 00:59:20,800
things do mean a lot and I think
again that just shows God's

923
00:59:20,800 --> 00:59:24,500
mercy for us that he's willing
to chastise us that he's willing

924
00:59:24,500 --> 00:59:27,600
to put us in those situations
that cause us pain because we

925
00:59:27,600 --> 00:59:30,600
know another, one of the amazing
Revolution.

926
00:59:30,600 --> 00:59:34,600
Revelations from the restoration
is that God cries.

927
00:59:35,100 --> 00:59:40,500
Yeah.
God fills our sorrows and as as

928
00:59:40,500 --> 00:59:42,500
desperate of the situation that
you were in and those

929
00:59:42,500 --> 00:59:47,500
experiences that you were in Not
only father, but Christ, they

930
00:59:47,500 --> 00:59:52,000
understand they've been there,
they know exactly what it was

931
00:59:52,000 --> 00:59:55,200
and they didn't want to and I'm
sure they did not want to put

932
00:59:55,200 --> 00:59:56,500
you there.
Just like I don't think they

933
00:59:56,500 --> 00:59:59,600
wanted to afflict job or right
will be afflicted, the way that

934
00:59:59,600 --> 01:00:03,200
he was, but it was necessary for
our growth.

935
01:00:03,200 --> 01:00:05,800
And that's the beauty of the
plan.

936
01:00:05,800 --> 01:00:08,900
Is that is that God will
chastise us when we get out of

937
01:00:08,900 --> 01:00:11,000
here.
So, so certain degree, I don't

938
01:00:11,000 --> 01:00:14,300
know that we need to necessarily
go out of our way to look Our

939
01:00:14,600 --> 01:00:18,700
for these things.
Because our thankfully, we have

940
01:00:18,700 --> 01:00:21,700
a father who, when we, when we,
when we fall asleep, he comes

941
01:00:21,700 --> 01:00:23,400
and he wakes us up.
Yep.

942
01:00:24,500 --> 01:00:28,200
Get better to be awake,
obviously better to be awake,

943
01:00:28,400 --> 01:00:33,900
but he's patient with us and he
gives us those opportunities to

944
01:00:34,400 --> 01:00:37,500
find out what it is in our
hearts that would separate us

945
01:00:37,500 --> 01:00:42,400
from him and he'll give us
exactly what we need to change

946
01:00:42,400 --> 01:00:45,300
that and all and the The funny
thing is no matter what the

947
01:00:45,300 --> 01:00:48,500
situation is due, it's just as
you described this, the solution

948
01:00:48,500 --> 01:00:51,300
is that surrender, is that
surrendering of ourselves to

949
01:00:51,300 --> 01:00:52,500
God?
And when we surrender ourselves

950
01:00:52,500 --> 01:00:58,400
to God, nothing can touch our
peace now, and I think it's that

951
01:00:58,400 --> 01:01:02,700
surrendered surrendering that
causes those dark times to

952
01:01:02,700 --> 01:01:06,500
suddenly become a light, right?
It was in that moment when I was

953
01:01:06,500 --> 01:01:09,600
surrendering and crying out to
God in a way, I had never cried

954
01:01:09,600 --> 01:01:12,000
out to him before.
Right?

955
01:01:12,000 --> 01:01:15,100
And I've often wondered what
that conversation is going to be

956
01:01:15,100 --> 01:01:20,600
like if I'm so fortunate and
I've done been the right things

957
01:01:20,600 --> 01:01:23,500
to meet the Lord.
You know what that conversation

958
01:01:23,500 --> 01:01:26,000
is going to be like when I see
him and he says, you remember

959
01:01:26,000 --> 01:01:28,800
that time when you were all
freaked out when your son was

960
01:01:28,800 --> 01:01:31,400
being born, let's talk about
that a little bit.

961
01:01:32,600 --> 01:01:35,500
But it's often that surrender
that causes those.

962
01:01:35,600 --> 01:01:38,100
Those are home personal
theophanies.

963
01:01:38,100 --> 01:01:41,000
Right?
Where, where we encounter God?

964
01:01:41,300 --> 01:01:44,800
So I guess for anyone else
listening, I don't, you know, I

965
01:01:44,808 --> 01:01:46,300
don't know what anyone else is
going through.

966
01:01:46,300 --> 01:01:51,200
I know it's tough out there but
if you're in one of those

967
01:01:51,200 --> 01:01:55,000
moments know that you could be
moments away from the white

968
01:01:55,000 --> 01:02:00,200
bursting forth and chasing away
the darkness, Absolutely, you

969
01:02:00,200 --> 01:02:04,300
know, in first John and verse 5
it says and the light shineth in

970
01:02:04,300 --> 01:02:07,800
darkness and the Darkness
comprehended comprehended it not

971
01:02:07,800 --> 01:02:11,500
and I really actually love this
verse but I have my own

972
01:02:11,500 --> 01:02:14,700
addendum.
This is The Gospel According to

973
01:02:14,700 --> 01:02:18,900
Justin but the darkness
comprehended it not.

974
01:02:19,300 --> 01:02:24,300
But the last night, the other
lights that were out there,

975
01:02:24,600 --> 01:02:26,800
that's where they can see it.
That's where you could

976
01:02:26,800 --> 01:02:28,400
comprehend it.
If it wasn't it, that light

977
01:02:28,400 --> 01:02:31,100
wasn't shy, You in the dark and
that light was shining in some

978
01:02:31,100 --> 01:02:33,700
giant, you know, brilliant
Stadium.

979
01:02:34,500 --> 01:02:37,600
It would be a lot harder to see.
It would be a lot harder to

980
01:02:37,600 --> 01:02:39,400
discern.
What it is you're looking at.

981
01:02:39,400 --> 01:02:42,500
But when you've got a light and
it's surrounded by nothing, but

982
01:02:42,500 --> 01:02:47,500
Darkness, you see that light?
There's nothing else to see it's

983
01:02:47,500 --> 01:02:51,700
pronounced, right?
I had a good buddy who was

984
01:02:51,700 --> 01:02:56,400
raised in Washington state and
then he ended up moving to, I

985
01:02:56,408 --> 01:02:59,500
want to say Phoenix.
And he said, one of the things

986
01:02:59,500 --> 01:03:05,100
that amazed him was just how
distinct his shadow looked,

987
01:03:05,200 --> 01:03:07,400
right?
He lived up in the Pacific

988
01:03:07,400 --> 01:03:10,300
Northwest where there was very
little sunlight, right?

989
01:03:10,300 --> 01:03:14,900
So he wasn't used to that.
Brilliant light and then this

990
01:03:14,900 --> 01:03:19,300
really dark shadow.
And so he went back to that

991
01:03:19,300 --> 01:03:22,900
locks, it made a pretty big
impression on him, right?

992
01:03:22,900 --> 01:03:28,700
This this idea of of as light
gets more pronounced or as

993
01:03:28,700 --> 01:03:34,500
Darkness gets more pronounced.
So does the like and I think it

994
01:03:34,500 --> 01:03:37,100
ties in perfectly with what
you're saying there with.

995
01:03:37,400 --> 01:03:40,500
You know, it comprehended that
not it, chases it away.

996
01:03:41,500 --> 01:03:44,900
Yeah, well it's also interesting
to this whole thing kind of ties

997
01:03:44,900 --> 01:03:47,600
back to where we're at in the
world right now on this grand

998
01:03:47,600 --> 01:03:50,000
scheme of things, it looks like
more.

999
01:03:50,300 --> 01:03:53,100
I mean it seems like everything
is just kind of falling and Into

1000
01:03:53,100 --> 01:03:54,600
Darkness.
Yep.

1001
01:03:55,000 --> 01:03:56,900
Every day.
If you watch the news it just

1002
01:03:56,900 --> 01:04:00,500
seems darker and darker and
darker and it can get easy.

1003
01:04:00,500 --> 01:04:03,000
Like you're talking about to
just kind of want to fall asleep

1004
01:04:03,000 --> 01:04:06,300
and ignore that because it's too
hard to deal with.

1005
01:04:06,300 --> 01:04:10,000
But it's really it's I think
it's an opportunity.

1006
01:04:10,100 --> 01:04:13,900
I think it's because Christ is
coming back, Christ is going to

1007
01:04:13,900 --> 01:04:17,800
return and we need any needs us
to be prepared to.

1008
01:04:17,800 --> 01:04:20,300
He needs us to be ready and
we're not going to do that.

1009
01:04:20,300 --> 01:04:22,100
We're not going to be there
unless we go through that kind

1010
01:04:22,100 --> 01:04:23,000
of refining.
Fire.

1011
01:04:23,000 --> 01:04:26,700
If we don't face that Darkness.
Yeah, and use the atonement

1012
01:04:26,700 --> 01:04:29,200
right.
That's the other thing is in,

1013
01:04:29,200 --> 01:04:33,300
get so often.
I think we look at the atonement

1014
01:04:33,300 --> 01:04:37,300
as something that happens to us
by somebody else.

1015
01:04:37,700 --> 01:04:39,100
But I don't think that's it at
all.

1016
01:04:39,100 --> 01:04:41,000
I think we're supposed to engage
in that.

1017
01:04:41,200 --> 01:04:45,700
Somewhat right.
Call upon that, make that a part

1018
01:04:45,700 --> 01:04:50,500
of our daily walk.
If you will with with Christ to

1019
01:04:50,508 --> 01:04:54,900
borrow from the from some of
the, the evangelicals is this

1020
01:04:54,900 --> 01:04:59,200
idea of working out our own
salvation before God which you

1021
01:04:59,200 --> 01:05:03,000
know, it says in scripture and I
think that that goes into yeah

1022
01:05:03,000 --> 01:05:06,700
we have a part to play in this
whole idea of atonement it

1023
01:05:06,700 --> 01:05:12,200
doesn't become You know,
effective until we we call upon

1024
01:05:12,200 --> 01:05:15,600
God to Deliver Us from those
things.

1025
01:05:17,000 --> 01:05:20,500
Oh, yeah, absolutely.
Well the path of sanctification.

1026
01:05:20,600 --> 01:05:21,700
Yep.
Yep.

1027
01:05:21,800 --> 01:05:23,900
You know that kind of brings up.
Another interesting thing to me

1028
01:05:23,900 --> 01:05:29,100
about the atonement and this is
very unique to Mormonism, but

1029
01:05:29,400 --> 01:05:34,400
the atonement is for everybody.
Yes, it really is for everybody.

1030
01:05:34,600 --> 01:05:38,500
It's not just for Christians who
profess his name.

1031
01:05:38,900 --> 01:05:43,000
Right.
And I've got it testimony that

1032
01:05:43,900 --> 01:05:47,700
the atonement Works in other
people's lives and works in

1033
01:05:47,700 --> 01:05:49,800
non-christians.
Life's it works in Buddhist.

1034
01:05:49,900 --> 01:05:55,200
Absolutely yes life's and it is
their lives would be different

1035
01:05:55,200 --> 01:05:56,700
without it.
And the other beautiful thing

1036
01:05:56,700 --> 01:06:00,000
too is that through with a full
understanding with restored,

1037
01:06:00,000 --> 01:06:01,600
understanding the fullness of
the Gospel.

1038
01:06:01,600 --> 01:06:08,900
We know that the atonement
ultimately will That everybody

1039
01:06:08,900 --> 01:06:13,400
will be redeemed right?
Side of a few specific

1040
01:06:13,400 --> 01:06:19,100
situations that that whether we,
you know, we suffer the price of

1041
01:06:19,100 --> 01:06:21,100
our sins or not might be up to
us.

1042
01:06:21,200 --> 01:06:24,400
But the consequences, the
ultimate Eternal consequences,

1043
01:06:25,100 --> 01:06:27,000
it's been paid.
Yeah.

1044
01:06:27,000 --> 01:06:30,000
And everybody gets to be a
partaker of that and that that

1045
01:06:30,000 --> 01:06:33,300
is beautiful to me because I
mean I you probably understand

1046
01:06:33,300 --> 01:06:36,300
this too since you didn't come
from a Christian background

1047
01:06:36,300 --> 01:06:41,200
originally but I I know a lot of
good people that aren't Mormons,

1048
01:06:41,200 --> 01:06:44,700
even some that aren't even
Christians and to me that just

1049
01:06:44,700 --> 01:06:48,100
the idea that that they're going
to die and they're just going to

1050
01:06:48,100 --> 01:06:51,100
go to hell forever because they
picked the wrong team or they

1051
01:06:51,100 --> 01:06:54,300
picked the wrong church or
something like that is abhorrent

1052
01:06:54,300 --> 01:06:58,700
absolutely abhorrent.
I mean my just brotherly love

1053
01:06:59,500 --> 01:07:05,300
for for these for these men and
women makes me Revolt at the

1054
01:07:05,300 --> 01:07:07,800
idea that they're just going to
be consigned to eternal.

1055
01:07:08,000 --> 01:07:11,000
This meant that they're not
going to let the atonement

1056
01:07:11,000 --> 01:07:15,500
doesn't count for them because
they didn't they didn't claim

1057
01:07:15,500 --> 01:07:20,500
his name at least in this life.
Dude, that question right there

1058
01:07:20,900 --> 01:07:24,600
is the thing that led me to
Mormonism, ultimately, right?

1059
01:07:24,600 --> 01:07:30,800
When my dad passed and I
remember there was a religious

1060
01:07:30,800 --> 01:07:32,600
leader.
I won't say from what church or

1061
01:07:32,600 --> 01:07:34,700
anything else.
I just asked him.

1062
01:07:34,700 --> 01:07:36,800
What?
What happened to my dad, right?

1063
01:07:36,800 --> 01:07:39,600
My dad was a good guy, but He
wasn't a religious guy either,

1064
01:07:40,300 --> 01:07:42,300
he was spiritual but he wasn't
religious.

1065
01:07:43,400 --> 01:07:45,300
I asked him, what?
What happens to my dad and he

1066
01:07:45,300 --> 01:07:49,700
said, well, if he didn't call
upon the name of Jesus Christ,

1067
01:07:49,700 --> 01:07:52,100
before he died, he's kind of
lost.

1068
01:07:52,700 --> 01:07:55,100
I'm like, well, what the hell
does that?

1069
01:07:55,100 --> 01:07:58,400
I mean, this is hours after my
dad had passed, I'm like, what

1070
01:07:58,400 --> 01:08:03,300
the hell does that mean?
And he's I'm like, dude, no, I

1071
01:08:03,300 --> 01:08:05,400
doesn't sit right.
That's what started me down.

1072
01:08:05,400 --> 01:08:08,600
This path was to answer that
question, right?

1073
01:08:08,600 --> 01:08:11,500
What happened my old man?
Because he was a good guy.

1074
01:08:11,500 --> 01:08:13,100
He did a lot of good in the
world.

1075
01:08:13,200 --> 01:08:18,800
I mean, if that's your idea of a
just and loving God, I don't

1076
01:08:18,800 --> 01:08:22,200
want that God because that God
isn't power 0, powerful enough

1077
01:08:22,200 --> 01:08:26,200
to save, right?
So this idea of an infinite and

1078
01:08:26,200 --> 01:08:30,800
eternal atonement is something
that is very unique to Mormonism

1079
01:08:30,800 --> 01:08:33,800
and something that I don't think
we should take take lightly.

1080
01:08:35,200 --> 01:08:37,899
Yeah, it's easy to take that
rented when you're when you are

1081
01:08:37,899 --> 01:08:42,500
raised in the church.
Yeah things are just hot but you

1082
01:08:42,500 --> 01:08:44,600
know it's funny that you say
that because I mean you already

1083
01:08:44,600 --> 01:08:47,700
mentioned it but I think that
was actually one of the driving

1084
01:08:47,700 --> 01:08:51,200
forces if not the driving force
behind Joseph Smith motivation,

1085
01:08:51,700 --> 01:08:54,500
that day in the sacred Road.
You know, is what about what

1086
01:08:54,500 --> 01:08:55,399
about what happened to his
brother?

1087
01:08:55,399 --> 01:08:57,200
Alvin, what's the state of the
Soul?

1088
01:08:57,200 --> 01:08:58,300
You've got these different
churches.

1089
01:08:58,300 --> 01:09:00,899
You got some that say that it's
all your predestined to this, or

1090
01:09:00,899 --> 01:09:04,000
that you've got.
And I think he was concerned.

1091
01:09:04,399 --> 01:09:08,899
Right, legitimate, absolute
sincere concern and having a

1092
01:09:08,907 --> 01:09:11,700
need to know.
Well, what is true because

1093
01:09:13,200 --> 01:09:16,500
Because I've got a brother on
the other side and I need to

1094
01:09:16,508 --> 01:09:19,300
know, right?
Right.

1095
01:09:19,899 --> 01:09:23,500
Let's talk about, I think one of
the other things that are that

1096
01:09:23,500 --> 01:09:29,600
is unique to Mormonism.
Is this idea that While the

1097
01:09:29,600 --> 01:09:33,899
cross was certainly an important
and integral part that had to

1098
01:09:33,899 --> 01:09:36,600
happen.
The bulk of the atonement

1099
01:09:36,600 --> 01:09:42,399
happens in the garden, right?
And that's uniquely Mormon.

1100
01:09:43,000 --> 01:09:48,700
That is uniquely.
It's not something you hear a

1101
01:09:48,700 --> 01:09:54,200
lot in Evangelical churches or
Catholic churches or anything

1102
01:09:54,200 --> 01:09:55,800
else.
This is something that's unique

1103
01:09:55,800 --> 01:10:02,400
to the restoration and it's this
idea of of, you know, Christ

1104
01:10:02,400 --> 01:10:06,200
took upon him your sins and I
want will dive in a little

1105
01:10:06,200 --> 01:10:09,400
deeper to what all the atonement
entails.

1106
01:10:09,400 --> 01:10:15,300
But it was somewhat
earth-shattering to me this idea

1107
01:10:15,300 --> 01:10:21,200
that everything I did wrong the
Savior paid for Right.

1108
01:10:21,400 --> 01:10:25,600
That to me was mind-blowing and
earth-shattering at some level

1109
01:10:26,000 --> 01:10:32,500
is that there's this guy who
came and he lived a sinless life

1110
01:10:32,800 --> 01:10:38,500
and his reward for that was
since my life has been perfect.

1111
01:10:38,700 --> 01:10:43,800
Now, I'm going to take on
everyone else's sin, and pay the

1112
01:10:43,800 --> 01:10:49,600
price for that.
Yeah.

1113
01:10:49,900 --> 01:10:54,500
It's, it's profound and I think
you're right.

1114
01:10:54,500 --> 01:10:57,200
I think to me when I think of
the atonement, I don't think of

1115
01:10:57,208 --> 01:10:59,900
the Cross, although I actually
don't really have an issue with

1116
01:10:59,900 --> 01:11:02,700
the symbolism of the Cross.
No, I don't either.

1117
01:11:03,000 --> 01:11:07,300
I think there's two me a.
It's very, I mean, I think it's

1118
01:11:07,300 --> 01:11:10,300
a wonderful symbol as a
Christian because Christ told us

1119
01:11:10,300 --> 01:11:12,200
to take up our crosses and
follow him, right.

1120
01:11:12,300 --> 01:11:13,800
And that's what a when I see a
cross.

1121
01:11:13,800 --> 01:11:16,800
That's what I think.
I think of that charge from

1122
01:11:16,800 --> 01:11:20,100
Christ himself to take up Mike.
Across as well and to follow

1123
01:11:20,100 --> 01:11:22,100
him.
But when I think the atonement,

1124
01:11:22,100 --> 01:11:24,100
it's the garden.
It's not about.

1125
01:11:24,500 --> 01:11:27,100
Yeah, he was physically
tortured.

1126
01:11:27,500 --> 01:11:30,300
He was brutalized.
His death was horrific.

1127
01:11:30,300 --> 01:11:34,400
That was no mistake.
That was a bad deal.

1128
01:11:35,500 --> 01:11:40,900
But that was, I think that was
nothing compared to the more

1129
01:11:40,900 --> 01:11:44,200
spiritual experience of the
atonement that he had to endure

1130
01:11:44,200 --> 01:11:47,200
in the garden.
I remember once.

1131
01:11:48,800 --> 01:11:55,200
I had went backpacking up in the
Tetons on the border of Idaho

1132
01:11:55,200 --> 01:12:00,300
and Wyoming.
And I woke up early, one night,

1133
01:12:00,700 --> 01:12:03,400
one morning and everyone else
was asleep.

1134
01:12:03,400 --> 01:12:05,600
So I thought, yeah, I'm just
going to get the fire going and

1135
01:12:05,600 --> 01:12:07,400
I'll just sit here and read my
scriptures.

1136
01:12:08,700 --> 01:12:12,300
So, I got my little head lamp on
and I'm reading and I'm reading

1137
01:12:12,700 --> 01:12:15,000
this account, right?
I'm reading the account of the

1138
01:12:15,008 --> 01:12:18,300
savior in the garden and then
his subsequent execution on the

1139
01:12:18,300 --> 01:12:22,300
cross, and it was the weirdest
thought I'd ever had.

1140
01:12:23,000 --> 01:12:27,700
But as I'm reading it, and I'm
reading about him bleeding from

1141
01:12:27,700 --> 01:12:36,700
every pore because of the weight
that he feels, That the thought

1142
01:12:36,700 --> 01:12:38,800
came to my mind.
Wow.

1143
01:12:38,800 --> 01:12:42,200
By then probably the physical
torture was almost a relief in

1144
01:12:42,200 --> 01:12:47,200
some ways.
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

1145
01:12:47,800 --> 01:12:50,800
Well you know and that's that's
actually kind of an interesting

1146
01:12:50,800 --> 01:12:53,600
thing.
I've been looking at some of the

1147
01:12:53,600 --> 01:12:55,700
scriptures and Doctrine
covenants and stuff.

1148
01:12:55,700 --> 01:13:00,200
And I've heard this theory that,
I mean this is just a theory but

1149
01:13:00,400 --> 01:13:05,400
to me it kind of there seems to
be something to this that the

1150
01:13:05,700 --> 01:13:08,300
there's something about blood.
There's something very special

1151
01:13:08,300 --> 01:13:10,900
about blood.
You look at the the Jewish,

1152
01:13:12,200 --> 01:13:16,100
their ceremonies about the blood
and Same blood on things in the

1153
01:13:16,100 --> 01:13:19,100
symbolism behind that you look
at.

1154
01:13:20,200 --> 01:13:21,900
And then you look at the
restored, understanding of the

1155
01:13:21,900 --> 01:13:25,700
atonement that it wasn't just
sweating like blood.

1156
01:13:25,700 --> 01:13:28,100
But no, he was bleeding from
every pore.

1157
01:13:28,100 --> 01:13:33,200
He was purging that blood out of
him and then we also have this

1158
01:13:33,200 --> 01:13:35,700
account that a resurrected
beings don't have blood.

1159
01:13:36,400 --> 01:13:40,200
Yeah, they're quick and with
spirit and I just it makes me

1160
01:13:40,200 --> 01:13:42,900
think that he was actually
undergoing a transformation

1161
01:13:42,900 --> 01:13:44,400
there as well.
A physiological.

1162
01:13:44,800 --> 01:13:47,400
Information, while he was doing
that, right?

1163
01:13:48,100 --> 01:13:50,700
And then the one of the
evidences to that is when they

1164
01:13:50,700 --> 01:13:54,900
when the, when the soldiers
pierced his side with this beer

1165
01:13:54,900 --> 01:13:58,000
and water came out not blood
right, right?

1166
01:13:58,000 --> 01:14:02,300
It's it's kind of a I think
there's some interesting

1167
01:14:02,300 --> 01:14:05,400
symbolism there and then also
just that you know it's true

1168
01:14:05,400 --> 01:14:10,200
Christ blood that we are washed
clean, there were washed in his

1169
01:14:10,200 --> 01:14:15,400
blood and there's some beautiful
symbolism I think Find that.

1170
01:14:15,700 --> 01:14:19,700
Yeah yeah.
I the other part of the

1171
01:14:19,700 --> 01:14:27,000
atonement that I don't think we
focus enough on is Don't get me

1172
01:14:27,000 --> 01:14:29,700
wrong.
It is a tremendous gift that we

1173
01:14:29,700 --> 01:14:38,700
have that we have this ability
to be forgiven, but I think

1174
01:14:38,700 --> 01:14:43,400
sometimes maybe the bigger thing
that we miss with the atonement

1175
01:14:44,000 --> 01:14:49,200
is that he felt all of our pain.
Right?

1176
01:14:49,300 --> 01:14:53,700
And that makes him uniquely
qualified to be able to give us

1177
01:14:53,700 --> 01:14:56,500
rest in relief because he took
it all.

1178
01:14:57,200 --> 01:15:00,500
He knows all the pain I ever
endured that story.

1179
01:15:00,500 --> 01:15:05,100
I shared just a few minutes ago
about my son, he knew that pain

1180
01:15:05,700 --> 01:15:11,500
in a personal way.
And because of that, he is

1181
01:15:11,500 --> 01:15:17,800
uniquely qualified.
To be able to give comfort in

1182
01:15:17,800 --> 01:15:23,700
our times of desperation, and
sorrow, and woe, and all those

1183
01:15:23,700 --> 01:15:26,400
things.
Yeah.

1184
01:15:26,500 --> 01:15:29,600
I mean the scriptures talk about
he takes and he takes it upon

1185
01:15:29,800 --> 01:15:34,300
himself our infirmities and
that's that's that's a little

1186
01:15:34,300 --> 01:15:36,700
bit different from our sins.
That's a little bit different.

1187
01:15:36,700 --> 01:15:39,900
You know, I've been saying
Spanish little bit and foremost,

1188
01:15:39,900 --> 01:15:43,700
you got this, you got this, this
word, it deals with like our

1189
01:15:43,700 --> 01:15:46,300
physical or physiological,
shortcomings as well.

1190
01:15:47,800 --> 01:15:51,400
Sicknesses, the pains, the
things that we experience in

1191
01:15:51,407 --> 01:15:56,000
these mortal bodies, but as far
as Things sometimes we miss on

1192
01:15:56,000 --> 01:15:59,000
the atonement to me.
One of the that really stands

1193
01:15:59,000 --> 01:16:03,800
out that I am probably.
I'd be lying.

1194
01:16:03,800 --> 01:16:06,600
If I said I was most grateful
for because I think I'm probably

1195
01:16:06,600 --> 01:16:13,600
most grateful that I'm forgiven,
but a very close second is that

1196
01:16:14,000 --> 01:16:19,100
there's restitution in the
atonement because You know, some

1197
01:16:19,100 --> 01:16:22,900
of the things that I've done in
my life have caused other people

1198
01:16:22,900 --> 01:16:24,700
harm and cause other people
pain.

1199
01:16:25,700 --> 01:16:32,000
And I think that understanding
that not only is he paying the

1200
01:16:32,000 --> 01:16:35,100
price, he is going to make
restitution, he has the power to

1201
01:16:35,100 --> 01:16:40,900
make restitution as well.
And I find great joy and hope in

1202
01:16:40,900 --> 01:16:43,700
that as well.
That not only does he has he

1203
01:16:43,700 --> 01:16:48,700
paid his, he suffered, so to
speak for my sins but He has

1204
01:16:48,700 --> 01:16:54,200
power to undo to make
restitution for the suffering

1205
01:16:54,300 --> 01:16:56,000
that my sins caused other
people.

1206
01:16:56,900 --> 01:16:59,500
Yeah, yeah.
And that's just it.

1207
01:16:59,500 --> 01:17:02,800
He and that's the amazing thing
about it, right?

1208
01:17:02,800 --> 01:17:07,600
Is that Not only did he bear the
weight of our sins but he bared

1209
01:17:07,600 --> 01:17:10,600
the weight of how those sins
made everybody else feel.

1210
01:17:11,800 --> 01:17:17,100
And when you start diving into
this, you realize, oh, there's

1211
01:17:17,100 --> 01:17:20,400
not much I can do to pay this
back, right?

1212
01:17:20,400 --> 01:17:23,200
And so sometimes we get in this
attitude of, well, I'll just

1213
01:17:23,200 --> 01:17:26,500
keep the Commandments to kind of
pay things back and I talked

1214
01:17:26,500 --> 01:17:30,300
about that earlier, right?
And it's like, good luck, good

1215
01:17:30,300 --> 01:17:32,500
luck.
Let me know when you get a tenth

1216
01:17:32,500 --> 01:17:35,200
of the way there because you're
probably translated at that

1217
01:17:35,200 --> 01:17:37,900
point.
Because there's no paying that

1218
01:17:37,900 --> 01:17:41,100
back.
Let me, let me challenge you a

1219
01:17:41,100 --> 01:17:43,600
little bit on this, not that I
disagree, but okay.

1220
01:17:43,600 --> 01:17:50,500
Um, So in Doctrine and Covenants
section, I think it's 1138.

1221
01:17:54,300 --> 01:17:57,700
We have Joseph F Smith speaking,
mmm.

1222
01:17:59,500 --> 01:18:03,200
And he says that.
Speaking of those who are dead

1223
01:18:04,100 --> 01:18:06,600
that the Dead who repent will be
redeemed through obedience to

1224
01:18:06,600 --> 01:18:08,100
the ordinance of the house of
God.

1225
01:18:08,200 --> 01:18:10,500
Okay, makes sense.
And after they have paid the

1226
01:18:10,500 --> 01:18:13,000
penalty of their transgression
in are washed clean.

1227
01:18:13,000 --> 01:18:16,600
Shall receive a reward according
to Works for, they are heirs to

1228
01:18:16,600 --> 01:18:17,900
Salvation and that's kind of
what I'm saying.

1229
01:18:17,900 --> 01:18:22,700
Like, everybody is saved and
right woman theology, but it

1230
01:18:22,700 --> 01:18:25,700
says, after they've paid the
penalty of their transgressions,

1231
01:18:27,200 --> 01:18:30,700
And you know, for a while, I'll
I kind of looked at that and

1232
01:18:30,700 --> 01:18:32,600
thought, well, it kind of sounds
like they're gonna, they're

1233
01:18:32,600 --> 01:18:34,700
gonna pay for the wrong since
then.

1234
01:18:36,600 --> 01:18:39,900
And that is a concept that, you
know, those spirits and spirit

1235
01:18:39,900 --> 01:18:42,800
prison, you know, they're not
going to be released until

1236
01:18:42,800 --> 01:18:45,200
they've until they won.
How does it go and you pay the

1237
01:18:45,400 --> 01:18:47,000
most Farthing or something, you
know?

1238
01:18:47,100 --> 01:18:48,200
Right.
Basically.

1239
01:18:50,000 --> 01:18:54,900
But the implication is
eventually they will have gone

1240
01:18:54,900 --> 01:19:03,400
through that process and then be
you know, declared fit for a

1241
01:19:03,400 --> 01:19:08,400
T-Rex troll Kingdom.
But I was under the I was under

1242
01:19:08,400 --> 01:19:11,400
the impression that that was
only for people who rejected

1243
01:19:11,400 --> 01:19:16,600
Christ's atonement.
Yeah, you accepted the atonement

1244
01:19:16,700 --> 01:19:21,400
that you could pass that by.
Oh absolutely.

1245
01:19:21,700 --> 01:19:26,000
Yeah but I also think that it's
I don't think that's correct.

1246
01:19:26,000 --> 01:19:29,800
Either though, the reason why is
because it says those who have

1247
01:19:29,800 --> 01:19:32,400
paid the penalty of their
transgression and are washed

1248
01:19:32,400 --> 01:19:40,200
clean And that being washed
clean implies something beyond

1249
01:19:40,300 --> 01:19:45,700
beyond ourselves, right?
And so what I think is we can't

1250
01:19:45,700 --> 01:19:49,000
really atone for our own sins.
What we can do is we can suffer

1251
01:19:49,200 --> 01:19:51,900
for our own sins.
Yeah, but just because we've

1252
01:19:51,900 --> 01:19:54,900
suffered for our sins that
doesn't actually rectify

1253
01:19:54,900 --> 01:19:56,000
anything.
No.

1254
01:19:57,400 --> 01:20:01,100
Because the balance the scales,
whoever whoever is injured,

1255
01:20:01,100 --> 01:20:03,800
Whoever has been harmed by our
actions that that has not been

1256
01:20:03,800 --> 01:20:06,600
undone.
We might mean, might have an eye

1257
01:20:06,600 --> 01:20:09,000
for an eye, makes the whole
world blind so to speak.

1258
01:20:09,000 --> 01:20:13,200
Write a law of Moses approach to
sin and atonement doesn't really

1259
01:20:13,200 --> 01:20:16,400
work in the long run and that
works okay for a legal for a

1260
01:20:16,407 --> 01:20:21,800
legal justice system maybe, but
that doesn't work for for a

1261
01:20:21,808 --> 01:20:24,700
spiritual atonement.
Yeah, that doesn't work for a

1262
01:20:24,708 --> 01:20:28,400
spiritual atonement and I that
just leaves Everybody suffering

1263
01:20:28,800 --> 01:20:32,700
right, buddy.
Damned so, I think even even for

1264
01:20:32,700 --> 01:20:35,400
those sin.
Those are those Sinners, those

1265
01:20:35,400 --> 01:20:36,200
of us.
Sinners.

1266
01:20:37,000 --> 01:20:40,500
Right.
Don't accept Christ and pay for

1267
01:20:40,500 --> 01:20:43,800
their own transgressions.
That's still really not in a

1268
01:20:43,808 --> 01:20:46,800
moment.
They're just paying the

1269
01:20:46,808 --> 01:20:49,800
consequences and it still
requires the atonement for them

1270
01:20:49,800 --> 01:20:53,800
to be washed clean and to be,
you know, to be fit to inherit

1271
01:20:53,800 --> 01:20:57,800
their Glory well and I think
it's important to also, Lives

1272
01:20:58,000 --> 01:21:01,500
that just because we may be
forgiven.

1273
01:21:02,800 --> 01:21:06,300
Doesn't necessarily mean that
we're relinquished from all

1274
01:21:06,300 --> 01:21:12,200
consequences either, right.
I have absolutely, I've had to

1275
01:21:12,200 --> 01:21:14,600
play pay a couple, you know,
there.

1276
01:21:14,600 --> 01:21:18,600
There's a couple of times I
can't believe I'm at this on

1277
01:21:18,600 --> 01:21:22,900
there.
I remember once there was a girl

1278
01:21:22,900 --> 01:21:25,800
that I had a relationship with
that.

1279
01:21:25,800 --> 01:21:29,700
I ended it pretty horrific lie
and this is when I first

1280
01:21:29,700 --> 01:21:35,500
discovered, I was a dirtbag and
I ran into her at the store one

1281
01:21:35,500 --> 01:21:40,200
day and I thought where you
going to do What are you going

1282
01:21:40,200 --> 01:21:44,100
to do?
How sorry are you and I just

1283
01:21:44,100 --> 01:21:48,100
took a few minutes to apologize
and that was the most

1284
01:21:48,100 --> 01:21:51,500
humiliating moment.
I think I can remember up to

1285
01:21:51,508 --> 01:21:55,200
that point in my young life was
to have to admit.

1286
01:21:55,300 --> 01:21:59,300
I was wrong and I hurt you.
And I there's nothing I can do

1287
01:21:59,300 --> 01:22:03,000
to help you, you know, with with
the hurt that I caused but I

1288
01:22:03,000 --> 01:22:06,600
just want you to know.
I'm sorry, I still had to Bear

1289
01:22:06,600 --> 01:22:08,600
the weight of that in some
degree.

1290
01:22:09,600 --> 01:22:16,700
I end I think I think that that
just because we we know we can

1291
01:22:16,700 --> 01:22:18,700
be forgiven.
That doesn't necessarily mean

1292
01:22:18,700 --> 01:22:21,400
we're completely off the hook
right?

1293
01:22:21,400 --> 01:22:25,400
We still have to contend with
that and do what we can to make

1294
01:22:25,400 --> 01:22:28,400
things right.
Or smells absolutely reminds me

1295
01:22:28,400 --> 01:22:31,700
of King David and Psalms right
for that will not leave my soul

1296
01:22:31,700 --> 01:22:34,400
in hell right?
Yeah he had made mistakes, he

1297
01:22:34,400 --> 01:22:37,900
was there were consequences that
David realized he gave up trying

1298
01:22:37,900 --> 01:22:40,300
to avoid.
He knew these things Were going

1299
01:22:40,300 --> 01:22:43,900
to have to be dealt with.
He found his peace in knowing

1300
01:22:43,900 --> 01:22:45,600
that it just wouldn't be
Eternal.

1301
01:22:45,800 --> 01:22:50,400
That there would be an eventual
Redemption even for him for what

1302
01:22:50,400 --> 01:22:52,200
he had caused.
And I think we all can kind of

1303
01:22:52,200 --> 01:22:56,000
take a certain comfort and in
that, when we consider the

1304
01:22:56,000 --> 01:22:58,600
things that I've been there,
like I said, I've the

1305
01:22:58,600 --> 01:23:00,000
relationships that I went
through.

1306
01:23:01,100 --> 01:23:03,100
Yeah, I learned that lesson.
Yeah.

1307
01:23:03,100 --> 01:23:06,100
Not listen to and it sucks.
It really sucks.

1308
01:23:06,500 --> 01:23:10,200
That's what I mean about to that
that I find joy in the Not just

1309
01:23:10,200 --> 01:23:13,700
that I get to be forgiven to,
but that even though it's not

1310
01:23:13,700 --> 01:23:17,100
within my power, it within the
Lord's power to make that up to

1311
01:23:17,100 --> 01:23:18,400
her, you know?
Yep.

1312
01:23:18,600 --> 01:23:19,700
Yep.
Absolutely.

1313
01:23:21,000 --> 01:23:23,200
Okay.
So, we've talked a little bit

1314
01:23:23,200 --> 01:23:26,800
about the garden part of this.
Now, I don't want to get into

1315
01:23:26,800 --> 01:23:29,900
the Gory details if you want.
If people want that, I would

1316
01:23:29,900 --> 01:23:34,000
recommend passion for the Christ
or Passion of the Christ and go

1317
01:23:34,000 --> 01:23:38,300
watch that movie and get a real
good idea of how horrific the

1318
01:23:38,300 --> 01:23:42,700
the The, the torture was that
that our savior had to endure,

1319
01:23:42,700 --> 01:23:47,000
their there is some rich
symbolism in that suffering,

1320
01:23:47,000 --> 01:23:51,500
that is, you know, hearkens back
to the types and shadows that

1321
01:23:51,500 --> 01:23:54,100
were practiced in the Old
Testament.

1322
01:23:56,800 --> 01:24:02,400
But I want to focus now a little
bit on the resurrection because

1323
01:24:03,400 --> 01:24:11,600
this is the moment at which it
becomes plainly evident that

1324
01:24:11,600 --> 01:24:16,200
something has shifted in the
heavens as well as in the Earth,

1325
01:24:16,500 --> 01:24:20,100
right?
Mary goes to the tomb.

1326
01:24:21,400 --> 01:24:24,200
And it's empty.
It's gone.

1327
01:24:24,200 --> 01:24:31,000
He's gone and I find it
especially for this time period.

1328
01:24:32,000 --> 01:24:35,800
Now, there's some serious
implications here with who he

1329
01:24:35,800 --> 01:24:42,000
appears to First.
If you were going to go based

1330
01:24:42,000 --> 01:24:48,600
off of a hierarchy within a
church structure, you would say,

1331
01:24:49,200 --> 01:24:52,400
well, you probably go to Peter
first, he's the chief Apostle.

1332
01:24:53,600 --> 01:24:57,000
But he didn't, he first appears
to marry.

1333
01:24:57,300 --> 01:25:04,700
Now there's a lot of
Significance to that, right?

1334
01:25:04,700 --> 01:25:09,000
One is you got to ask.
The question was, was she his

1335
01:25:09,000 --> 01:25:13,400
wife?
I tend to believe she was But

1336
01:25:13,400 --> 01:25:22,400
more than that Justin this now.
Will separate Christianity in

1337
01:25:22,400 --> 01:25:27,000
large portion portion and I'm
going to come back and here in a

1338
01:25:27,008 --> 01:25:30,800
second and tell you why.
I think Joseph Smith Smith did

1339
01:25:30,800 --> 01:25:35,600
something similar.
This sets Christianity apart in

1340
01:25:35,600 --> 01:25:40,100
the sense that he appeared to a
woman first, right?

1341
01:25:40,100 --> 01:25:44,000
This is a time when women are
viewed as chattel and now he's

1342
01:25:44,000 --> 01:25:49,100
like coming to her first to
Proclaim his resurrection.

1343
01:25:49,600 --> 01:25:55,500
That's revolutionary.
Yeah.

1344
01:25:55,500 --> 01:25:58,900
It is to me.
It's not that surprising though.

1345
01:25:59,100 --> 01:26:03,200
I think it's absolutely clear
that because I mean I mean if I

1346
01:26:03,208 --> 01:26:07,400
think who would I you know, if I
were to die and then and I could

1347
01:26:07,400 --> 01:26:09,400
come back.
Who would I want to see first?

1348
01:26:09,400 --> 01:26:11,000
Do I want to write see my
Bishop?

1349
01:26:11,200 --> 01:26:14,900
I could see if I want to go see
that the elders Quorum president

1350
01:26:14,900 --> 01:26:18,700
or do I want to go maybe see my
wife, right?

1351
01:26:19,300 --> 01:26:23,800
Especially if I knew that she
was in pain and suffering.

1352
01:26:24,300 --> 01:26:28,000
Because of feelings of loss,
right?

1353
01:26:28,100 --> 01:26:30,900
Right.
And even for those who, don't

1354
01:26:30,900 --> 01:26:35,600
believe that he was married.
It's revolutionary, right?

1355
01:26:35,600 --> 01:26:39,000
Because again up to this time,
women are second-class citizens.

1356
01:26:39,000 --> 01:26:47,500
They don't have the same rights
that men do and Jesus totally

1357
01:26:47,500 --> 01:26:50,300
upends that whole thing in that
one moment.

1358
01:26:50,900 --> 01:26:54,700
Well and I'd say it's even more
than he appeared to her first.

1359
01:26:54,800 --> 01:26:59,500
Because he I mean yeah he
appeared to her first, but he

1360
01:26:59,500 --> 01:27:01,900
also says what?
At don't touch me.

1361
01:27:01,900 --> 01:27:03,400
I have not yet ascended to my
father.

1362
01:27:03,500 --> 01:27:07,000
A father, right?
And yet later on when he when he

1363
01:27:07,000 --> 01:27:10,100
with the next, when he next does
visit the church, he's asking

1364
01:27:10,100 --> 01:27:13,100
them to feel his feel his palms,
right?

1365
01:27:13,100 --> 01:27:15,300
Filicide.
Feel his wounds come touch me.

1366
01:27:15,300 --> 01:27:20,100
So he actually he didn't want to
marry before he went to Father.

1367
01:27:20,400 --> 01:27:22,600
Yeah, I think that's pretty
pretty amazing.

1368
01:27:22,600 --> 01:27:25,700
Oh that's a great Point.
That's that's a fantastic point.

1369
01:27:25,700 --> 01:27:29,800
I hadn't thought about that but
yeah, you're 100% right now.

1370
01:27:29,800 --> 01:27:32,100
I want to fast forward and do a
comparison here.

1371
01:27:34,700 --> 01:27:37,200
I shouldn't say comparison but
maybe an addendum.

1372
01:27:38,500 --> 01:27:45,200
I think Joseph Smith had just as
much an effect on certainly

1373
01:27:45,200 --> 01:27:48,800
Mormonism, obviously.
But Christianity is a whole and

1374
01:27:48,800 --> 01:27:53,600
I think had we stuck to our guns
as Mormons especially within the

1375
01:27:53,900 --> 01:27:59,900
the mother Church Joseph Smith
comes out and goes, no, no, God

1376
01:27:59,900 --> 01:28:03,300
hurts.
Not Just For Men, God hoods for

1377
01:28:03,300 --> 01:28:08,000
the Sisters as well.
That's revolutionary, right?

1378
01:28:08,000 --> 01:28:14,200
So I find it interesting that
you have both Jesus and Joseph.

1379
01:28:15,700 --> 01:28:20,700
That in some ways.
Tip the religions of their day

1380
01:28:20,700 --> 01:28:23,600
kind of on their head.
Right.

1381
01:28:23,600 --> 01:28:27,600
That they absolutely change the
paradigm.

1382
01:28:30,500 --> 01:28:33,700
Yeah, well, I mean, the temple,
the potential, the blessings

1383
01:28:33,700 --> 01:28:38,100
that we are promised we can
attain to in the temple of kings

1384
01:28:38,100 --> 01:28:42,600
and queens, priests and
priestesses, right?

1385
01:28:42,600 --> 01:28:47,900
It's even even I think
priesthood is something that

1386
01:28:48,100 --> 01:28:53,700
ultimately in the eternities is
a, is a man and woman together.

1387
01:28:53,700 --> 01:28:56,500
It's not just.
Yeah, yeah.

1388
01:28:56,500 --> 01:28:57,000
Yeah.
No.

1389
01:28:57,000 --> 01:29:00,100
And, and Joseph very clear about
that Brethren you're not going

1390
01:29:00,100 --> 01:29:04,000
to Get to where you want to be
without your without your wives.

1391
01:29:04,500 --> 01:29:10,700
I know that right now that that
has to be, you know, and I think

1392
01:29:10,700 --> 01:29:12,500
this might be a good time to
that.

1393
01:29:13,700 --> 01:29:15,600
I've said this before and I
really believe it.

1394
01:29:15,600 --> 01:29:20,700
I think, I think modern
Christendom has painted Christ

1395
01:29:20,700 --> 01:29:23,900
in really pastel colors.
Right.

1396
01:29:24,200 --> 01:29:26,400
Very soft.
Very gentle.

1397
01:29:26,400 --> 01:29:30,000
What you was.
I'm not saying he wasn't, but

1398
01:29:30,000 --> 01:29:34,800
let's not forget for a moment
that He was pissing everybody

1399
01:29:34,800 --> 01:29:37,400
off.
He was pissing off the religious

1400
01:29:37,400 --> 01:29:41,800
structure, his time, he was
pissing off the the Civil

1401
01:29:41,800 --> 01:29:45,900
authority of his time.
This was a man who in some ways

1402
01:29:47,300 --> 01:29:52,300
Was.
Was into challenging the status

1403
01:29:52,300 --> 01:29:58,600
quo and did so oh absolutely not
washing their hands before

1404
01:29:58,600 --> 01:30:02,400
eating even right right.
I mean he these guys were

1405
01:30:02,400 --> 01:30:03,800
radicals.
Yep.

1406
01:30:04,100 --> 01:30:09,600
Yep absolutely.
One of the things I've often

1407
01:30:09,600 --> 01:30:12,700
thought wondered is what must it
have been like to have been,

1408
01:30:12,700 --> 01:30:16,800
some of his Apostles, just
trying to make sense in your

1409
01:30:16,800 --> 01:30:20,900
mind about what had happened.
Christ talks about this coming

1410
01:30:20,900 --> 01:30:26,300
forth of the kingdom and now all
of a sudden, he's gone.

1411
01:30:26,900 --> 01:30:31,600
You think he's died?
What, what must they have felt

1412
01:30:31,600 --> 01:30:35,800
inside of their rooms, where
they were hiding, right?

1413
01:30:35,800 --> 01:30:38,400
Let's not forget fear has to be
a big motivation here.

1414
01:30:38,400 --> 01:30:41,300
You just saw them.
Off Your Leader.

1415
01:30:42,700 --> 01:30:45,700
You're not immune to that.
So they're hiding out in

1416
01:30:45,700 --> 01:30:48,100
probably trying.
There's probably grief and fear

1417
01:30:48,100 --> 01:30:51,300
all mixed into one trying to
make sense of it.

1418
01:30:53,400 --> 01:30:57,300
Well, I think it does go to show
how the Lord works with us.

1419
01:30:58,100 --> 01:31:01,000
You might think that, well, gee,
those guys.

1420
01:31:01,100 --> 01:31:02,500
Look, we're living their life
with Christ.

1421
01:31:02,500 --> 01:31:05,900
Surely Christ, explain to every
thing to them and explicit

1422
01:31:05,900 --> 01:31:08,200
detail.
Well, apparently not,

1423
01:31:08,200 --> 01:31:10,800
apparently.
So, I mean, I kind of look at

1424
01:31:10,800 --> 01:31:13,400
that to a degree and say, well,
you know, I'm trying to

1425
01:31:13,400 --> 01:31:18,200
understand stuff too, and, and I
find some some comfort to know

1426
01:31:18,200 --> 01:31:23,100
that, you know, the apostles,
Even the apostles and Christ

1427
01:31:23,100 --> 01:31:28,500
time could could needed to learn
gradually light upon light

1428
01:31:28,500 --> 01:31:31,300
precept upon precept, even
though they were taught directly

1429
01:31:31,300 --> 01:31:34,200
by Christ.
And so that's how Christ dealt

1430
01:31:34,200 --> 01:31:35,300
with them.
I think that's Christ.

1431
01:31:35,300 --> 01:31:38,100
I think that's how Christ in God
deals with us, that we just kind

1432
01:31:38,100 --> 01:31:41,300
of learn things.
Step, by step, he comes to us

1433
01:31:41,300 --> 01:31:44,800
where we're at helps us along,
but he just doesn't, he doesn't

1434
01:31:44,800 --> 01:31:47,300
throw it all upon us, all at
once, right?

1435
01:31:47,400 --> 01:31:50,300
Which I think is, you know, I
think that's for our benefit

1436
01:31:50,300 --> 01:31:54,100
because it's so easy.
To take up too much strength.

1437
01:31:54,100 --> 01:31:56,800
You know, when we're given too
much that Pride enters in you,

1438
01:31:56,800 --> 01:32:03,400
look at the xenix analogy where
you've got the vineyard in the,

1439
01:32:03,400 --> 01:32:07,100
in the, in the, in the olive
trees and, you know, they work

1440
01:32:07,100 --> 01:32:08,500
on.
But sometimes they just take up

1441
01:32:08,500 --> 01:32:11,400
strength too much.
It was, is always this balance

1442
01:32:11,400 --> 01:32:14,700
of nourish them enough, but
don't over nourish them or they

1443
01:32:14,700 --> 01:32:21,100
kind of take up straighter, it
becomes overly Hottie it becomes

1444
01:32:21,100 --> 01:32:24,900
overly may be prideful.
We can we're not made were not

1445
01:32:24,900 --> 01:32:28,600
ready for the things that or
there's truth that.

1446
01:32:28,600 --> 01:32:33,000
I mean something can be true,
but it can also be a lie, right?

1447
01:32:33,100 --> 01:32:35,000
I think, I think we might have
talked about stuff like this

1448
01:32:35,000 --> 01:32:37,000
before.
Yeah, somebody can be saying

1449
01:32:37,000 --> 01:32:42,200
something that's technically
completely accurate, but said in

1450
01:32:42,200 --> 01:32:46,300
a time, and in a context to
actually deceive and manipulate,

1451
01:32:46,600 --> 01:32:50,600
right?
And so even even Even a truth,

1452
01:32:50,600 --> 01:32:53,700
can be a lie in the wrong
context.

1453
01:32:53,800 --> 01:33:00,500
And as as I think, you know, I
my personal, you know, walk with

1454
01:33:00,500 --> 01:33:04,300
Christ, I think, you know, it's
just just enough just enough for

1455
01:33:04,300 --> 01:33:08,900
what I need now, and hopefully
not hopefully no more because

1456
01:33:08,900 --> 01:33:12,700
that's there's wisdom in in
dealing with us that way.

1457
01:33:12,900 --> 01:33:14,500
And I think that's how he dealt
with the apostles.

1458
01:33:14,500 --> 01:33:16,900
And they, you know, that was
part of their process of

1459
01:33:17,000 --> 01:33:19,500
learning and developing their
own faith and getting there.

1460
01:33:19,600 --> 01:33:25,000
Testimony and understanding.
So I'm not too surprised to see

1461
01:33:25,000 --> 01:33:26,200
that.
They kind of missed it.

1462
01:33:26,200 --> 01:33:27,900
They thought, I think they
thought they were part of some

1463
01:33:27,900 --> 01:33:33,200
sort of a political Rebellion to
rush degree and they were just

1464
01:33:33,200 --> 01:33:37,200
as surprised as the populace
when when that wasn't the

1465
01:33:37,200 --> 01:33:40,200
intention at that coming.
Absolutely.

1466
01:33:41,300 --> 01:33:44,100
All right.
Before we switch gears now and

1467
01:33:44,100 --> 01:33:50,500
move onto each tar.
Let me, let me ask you this what

1468
01:33:50,500 --> 01:33:55,400
does the atonement mean to you?
I know that's a big ask.

1469
01:33:58,800 --> 01:34:04,900
Yeah, well man, it is a big ass
because it's so big.

1470
01:34:05,000 --> 01:34:08,800
There's just it means so much to
me.

1471
01:34:11,200 --> 01:34:13,500
To me, the atonement is
probably.

1472
01:34:14,900 --> 01:34:17,500
Everything.
But the most important thing is

1473
01:34:17,500 --> 01:34:21,700
it is my joy.
I remember when I was in

1474
01:34:21,700 --> 01:34:24,000
college, studying the scriptures
and well, actually, I was

1475
01:34:24,000 --> 01:34:29,900
studying philosophy, but it got
me on this kind of idea on

1476
01:34:29,900 --> 01:34:32,100
questions and looking at the
meanings of words.

1477
01:34:32,100 --> 01:34:35,200
And, and I remember at one point
I thought I want to I'm gonna

1478
01:34:35,200 --> 01:34:39,500
Joy, is the rather than taking
the Philosopher's approach and

1479
01:34:39,500 --> 01:34:41,500
just kind of reason it around in
my head.

1480
01:34:41,500 --> 01:34:43,200
I thought I'm gonna, I'm gonna
see what the scriptures have to

1481
01:34:43,200 --> 01:34:45,200
say about it.
And one of the things occurred

1482
01:34:45,200 --> 01:34:49,100
to me will was, where does Joy
Acker scripturally?

1483
01:34:50,100 --> 01:34:51,600
What does it mean?
They're what does it occur for

1484
01:34:51,600 --> 01:34:53,500
the first time?
Where is the first explanation

1485
01:34:53,500 --> 01:34:57,500
of joy?
And it's fascinating because

1486
01:34:57,700 --> 01:35:01,800
when Adam and Eve are, are
kicked out of the garden and are

1487
01:35:02,400 --> 01:35:08,100
so to speak, cursed, you know,
Eve is told that that she would

1488
01:35:09,200 --> 01:35:14,200
was it late labor and sorrow or
not labor, that she'd bear in

1489
01:35:14,200 --> 01:35:16,100
sorrow.
Thou shalt bring forth children.

1490
01:35:16,900 --> 01:35:19,800
Yeah, in sorrow, Thou shalt
bring forth children, Aaron and

1491
01:35:19,800 --> 01:35:22,200
sorrow.
Well, that's not Joy, that's

1492
01:35:22,200 --> 01:35:28,100
kind of the opposite of Joy, but
in the book of Moses, which has

1493
01:35:28,100 --> 01:35:34,100
a much more Fuller detailed
account of of Genesis, Adam and

1494
01:35:34,100 --> 01:35:36,600
Eve have been obeying after
they've been kicked out.

1495
01:35:36,600 --> 01:35:38,900
They've been obeying God,
they've been doing what they

1496
01:35:38,900 --> 01:35:40,400
were told.
They said they don't know why

1497
01:35:40,400 --> 01:35:43,700
but they're going to do it
anyways and an angel comes to

1498
01:35:43,700 --> 01:35:47,000
Adam and explains and says hey
you know there's there's a

1499
01:35:47,008 --> 01:35:51,500
savior prepared, there's a
savior I prepared and there's

1500
01:35:51,500 --> 01:35:56,900
going to be Redemption.
And that is the first instance

1501
01:35:56,900 --> 01:36:02,100
of the word Joy coming up.
Historically is when they

1502
01:36:02,100 --> 01:36:03,700
learned that there would be a
savior.

1503
01:36:03,700 --> 01:36:07,600
And I thought the reason why
even more so than for themselves

1504
01:36:07,600 --> 01:36:12,300
is for their children, right?
That's that's what Joy is and so

1505
01:36:12,300 --> 01:36:15,600
to me the atonement, it's not
just a hope for myself, it's a

1506
01:36:15,608 --> 01:36:20,000
hope for my children.
And so from my posterity Yeah.

1507
01:36:20,300 --> 01:36:24,400
And that to me is Joy knowing
that they've got a chance, they

1508
01:36:24,400 --> 01:36:26,600
don't have to go through what I
did.

1509
01:36:26,600 --> 01:36:29,500
They don't have to suffer the
things that that I did and they

1510
01:36:29,500 --> 01:36:33,700
don't and just and and with me
they don't have to be consigned

1511
01:36:33,700 --> 01:36:38,800
to the to an eternal consequence
of our failings and bad

1512
01:36:38,800 --> 01:36:44,100
decisions.
Absolutely for me lately, I'll

1513
01:36:44,100 --> 01:36:47,000
just say lately because the more
I dive into the atonement, the

1514
01:36:47,008 --> 01:36:50,100
more I realize I'll never have
it figured get out right.

1515
01:36:50,400 --> 01:36:55,200
I'll have a rudimentary
knowledge until until I get

1516
01:36:55,200 --> 01:37:00,400
getting to you know hopefully
get to a place to where where

1517
01:37:00,400 --> 01:37:02,100
the Lord can instruct me
further.

1518
01:37:02,700 --> 01:37:06,300
But lately I've noticed that the
first five letters in the word,

1519
01:37:06,300 --> 01:37:16,100
atonement spell at one and that
idea of being at one With with

1520
01:37:16,100 --> 01:37:21,400
God again, through, Christ's
sacrifice, I think can't be

1521
01:37:21,400 --> 01:37:25,900
overstated, right?
It's the that that act that the

1522
01:37:25,900 --> 01:37:32,300
Savior performed on our behalf
The suffering in the garden, the

1523
01:37:32,300 --> 01:37:35,700
scourgings at the hands of the
Romans and his Ultimate Death.

1524
01:37:36,700 --> 01:37:41,100
All is supposed to point us back
to getting back to our dad,

1525
01:37:41,300 --> 01:37:46,100
getting us back to our father
and being at one with him.

1526
01:37:47,100 --> 01:37:51,900
And I think it this idea of
Resurrection that was part of

1527
01:37:51,907 --> 01:37:54,900
the atonement.
This idea that that your

1528
01:37:54,900 --> 01:38:02,200
Humanity can be holy that's
that's big stuff and that stuff

1529
01:38:02,200 --> 01:38:06,800
that that deserves certainly our
gratitude to the Savior

1530
01:38:07,800 --> 01:38:12,400
certainly more than gratitude
maybe our adoration our worship

1531
01:38:12,400 --> 01:38:20,800
of of of Christ that Took upon
him, all manner of.

1532
01:38:22,700 --> 01:38:28,000
Pain and sorrow, and yet bore it
so that we could have a chance,

1533
01:38:28,600 --> 01:38:35,600
right?
I love what, what the Greeks,

1534
01:38:36,300 --> 01:38:40,200
the Romans, and even the Vikings
used to say about their gods,

1535
01:38:40,200 --> 01:38:45,500
they used to call him Champions
and I've often looked at Christ

1536
01:38:45,500 --> 01:38:49,300
and thought I can't think of a
better word than the champion of

1537
01:38:49,300 --> 01:38:50,700
humanity.
Right?

1538
01:38:51,200 --> 01:38:57,000
The, the, the The god that saved
all.

1539
01:38:57,300 --> 01:39:02,000
You know it's the infinite and
eternal atonement goes without

1540
01:39:02,000 --> 01:39:03,900
bounds.
There's no bounce to it.

1541
01:39:03,900 --> 01:39:09,200
It's forever.
And so for me, the atonement, Is

1542
01:39:09,200 --> 01:39:12,700
the Crux of this whole thing
that we're doing here.

1543
01:39:12,700 --> 01:39:15,800
Right of the restored gospel, is
this idea that?

1544
01:39:15,800 --> 01:39:21,500
Yeah, he came, he was real.
He lived he still lives and

1545
01:39:22,200 --> 01:39:27,100
through his sacrifice.
We can ultimately not only be

1546
01:39:27,100 --> 01:39:32,700
with our families forever, but
be as God is one day and that's

1547
01:39:32,700 --> 01:39:37,400
revolutionary and heavy stuff.
Absolutely.

1548
01:39:38,800 --> 01:39:41,900
Alright, so now that we've set
that table, I wanted to do that

1549
01:39:41,900 --> 01:39:44,300
first because I feel like it's
so important.

1550
01:39:44,800 --> 01:39:48,400
Let's talk about the progression
of Easter here, a little bit or

1551
01:39:48,400 --> 01:39:53,700
the the progression of the, the
celebration of the savior's

1552
01:39:53,700 --> 01:39:57,500
atonement which we kind of
touched on briefly before we did

1553
01:39:57,500 --> 01:40:02,600
this part.
Yeah.

1554
01:40:02,600 --> 01:40:06,500
It's this is it kind of an
interesting subject I think.

1555
01:40:08,600 --> 01:40:13,600
And honestly, it's one
personally that I'm I'm not

1556
01:40:13,600 --> 01:40:23,100
particularly Convicted on either
way, but it's kind of a debate.

1557
01:40:23,100 --> 01:40:25,200
And as it was, it's become a
debate out there.

1558
01:40:25,200 --> 01:40:27,700
Apparently, I didn't realize
this because I mean, I first

1559
01:40:27,700 --> 01:40:32,400
came upon the idea that, you
know, most Christian holidays

1560
01:40:32,400 --> 01:40:39,300
are kind of paganized, I don't
know, maybe 20 years ago or so,

1561
01:40:39,400 --> 01:40:47,200
you know, a long time ago.
And so, To me, it wasn't it's

1562
01:40:47,200 --> 01:40:48,500
sort of self evident.
Right?

1563
01:40:48,500 --> 01:40:52,600
When I mean when you look at the
way that we celebrate these

1564
01:40:53,100 --> 01:40:57,200
holidays, which are supposed to
be holy days, right?

1565
01:40:57,200 --> 01:41:03,500
They're not particularly holy
know, and so clearly something

1566
01:41:03,500 --> 01:41:07,200
seems a little bit off and, you
know, having have a little bit

1567
01:41:07,200 --> 01:41:12,600
of experience with some of the
Jewish Traditions, you know, I

1568
01:41:12,600 --> 01:41:16,500
mean I can see Holiness in that.
Even though absolutely not be

1569
01:41:16,500 --> 01:41:19,200
the fullness.
There's there's something there

1570
01:41:19,500 --> 01:41:22,100
but you know, you look at the
way that we traditionally

1571
01:41:22,100 --> 01:41:24,100
celebrate, things like Easter
and Christmas, and it's just

1572
01:41:24,100 --> 01:41:26,700
like, hmm.
I don't know, seems pretty

1573
01:41:26,900 --> 01:41:35,800
Hollow and empty at best.
Yeah, it's when we start talking

1574
01:41:35,800 --> 01:41:40,500
about, You know, Easter and and
Christmas there.

1575
01:41:40,500 --> 01:41:44,600
And that's why I love having
Joshua Erickson on the podcast

1576
01:41:44,600 --> 01:41:48,900
because he keeps all those old
Jewish holidays, which is are

1577
01:41:48,900 --> 01:41:55,200
just rich in symbolism and I
feel like we as Mormons can take

1578
01:41:55,200 --> 01:42:00,100
a lot away from that because if
this is the if this is the you

1579
01:42:00,100 --> 01:42:04,100
know the restoration of all
things certainly we have to look

1580
01:42:04,100 --> 01:42:08,300
at some of those early holidays
in those feasts and And ask

1581
01:42:08,300 --> 01:42:12,300
ourselves are there.
Different ways we can do this.

1582
01:42:14,500 --> 01:42:18,700
Yeah, absolutely.
But, you know, it's interesting.

1583
01:42:18,700 --> 01:42:23,200
So, I served a mission in Korea
and they've got this holiday,

1584
01:42:23,200 --> 01:42:27,500
they call chuseok, and it's a
traditional thing and it's, you

1585
01:42:27,500 --> 01:42:30,500
know, the early Christians
labeled it ancestor worship and,

1586
01:42:30,600 --> 01:42:36,500
and forbade it.
But even the Christian Krantz,

1587
01:42:37,300 --> 01:42:41,000
most of them, still still do
follow this tradition and it's

1588
01:42:41,000 --> 01:42:44,400
not really a, I don't believe
it's intended as a deification

1589
01:42:44,400 --> 01:42:47,600
of their dead.
I think it's a Respect and honor

1590
01:42:47,600 --> 01:42:50,700
of their dead that he departed
and they've got their own kind

1591
01:42:50,700 --> 01:42:54,800
of Feasts and ceremonies around
it, which I think are actually

1592
01:42:54,800 --> 01:42:57,000
pretty beautiful and they do
this around the time of

1593
01:42:57,000 --> 01:42:59,500
Thanksgiving in the US but some
of the lunar calendar.

1594
01:42:59,500 --> 01:43:03,400
So it kind of shifts around and
I had an opportunity to

1595
01:43:03,400 --> 01:43:04,900
participate with the Korean
family.

1596
01:43:05,100 --> 01:43:10,500
I was invited into their home
and and was able to experience

1597
01:43:10,500 --> 01:43:12,700
that with them and it was a
beautiful experience.

1598
01:43:12,700 --> 01:43:16,300
And I remember thinking, you
know this, I think there's a lot

1599
01:43:16,300 --> 01:43:20,600
of Out of value in Remembering
our ancestors and those who came

1600
01:43:20,600 --> 01:43:25,500
before us even if they're not
God, there's a lot of value in

1601
01:43:25,500 --> 01:43:32,000
remembering them and respecting
their lives that allowed us our

1602
01:43:32,000 --> 01:43:35,500
lives.
And so, you know, I kind of took

1603
01:43:35,500 --> 01:43:37,600
away with that they can, you
know, I want to when I get back

1604
01:43:37,600 --> 01:43:40,500
to the States, when I get a
family of my own, I want to

1605
01:43:40,700 --> 01:43:42,600
continue.
I want to develop that

1606
01:43:42,600 --> 01:43:43,800
tradition.
I want to bring that kind of a

1607
01:43:43,800 --> 01:43:46,200
tradition into my family.
It might not be explicitly.

1608
01:43:46,300 --> 01:43:52,200
Christian, but it's it's kind of
beautiful and it can bring a lot

1609
01:43:52,200 --> 01:43:58,500
of awareness and connection to
our ancestors who are a vital

1610
01:43:58,500 --> 01:44:00,500
part.
I mean, and if you look at the,

1611
01:44:03,000 --> 01:44:06,500
the Malachi prophecy that, you
know, that before the day of the

1612
01:44:06,500 --> 01:44:09,600
Lord, that you turn the hearts
of the children to the father's

1613
01:44:09,600 --> 01:44:12,700
in the fathers and children all
that stuff, that's at, that's a

1614
01:44:12,700 --> 01:44:20,300
part of the restoration to is
recognizing And loving and

1615
01:44:20,300 --> 01:44:26,700
serving our ancestors and so so
I thought that anyways so I mean

1616
01:44:26,700 --> 01:44:31,400
to me I'm not I'm not a hardcore
fundamentalist when it comes to

1617
01:44:31,400 --> 01:44:34,000
holidays and where I'm, you
know, some Christians are just

1618
01:44:34,000 --> 01:44:38,300
like if it's not in the Bible
it's of the devil and it should

1619
01:44:38,300 --> 01:44:41,000
be forbidden.
I don't think that's necessarily

1620
01:44:41,000 --> 01:44:45,100
the case.
As long as what's being practice

1621
01:44:45,100 --> 01:44:50,300
is Lightning.
And but honestly, I mean, sure,

1622
01:44:50,400 --> 01:44:52,400
Christmas and Easter.
I remember them being kind of

1623
01:44:52,400 --> 01:44:55,800
fun times as a kid but they they
weren't particularly in

1624
01:44:55,800 --> 01:44:58,100
lightning.
No, no.

1625
01:44:58,100 --> 01:44:59,800
And I think that's that's the
challenge.

1626
01:44:59,800 --> 01:45:06,500
We have is parents now, right?
Is to somehow Maybe take those

1627
01:45:06,500 --> 01:45:10,700
things back.
Right, take take those things

1628
01:45:10,700 --> 01:45:13,300
back.
I will say Easter, I think

1629
01:45:13,300 --> 01:45:19,100
present some unique challenges
in the sense that even the name

1630
01:45:19,100 --> 01:45:22,100
Easter.
You know, is, is East are,

1631
01:45:22,100 --> 01:45:24,700
right?
And when you start studying, who

1632
01:45:24,900 --> 01:45:29,800
Ishtar was, she's an abomination
of a God, right?

1633
01:45:30,600 --> 01:45:35,300
Hurr, Hurr, Hurr adherence would
would go through.

1634
01:45:35,500 --> 01:45:38,100
Well, I'm just going to call it
like, I see it here.

1635
01:45:39,000 --> 01:45:40,700
This is going to get me another
strike.

1636
01:45:40,800 --> 01:45:48,000
Um, they would transition from
male to female That was one of

1637
01:45:48,000 --> 01:45:52,500
the ways they would do it as her
priests or priestesses.

1638
01:45:52,500 --> 01:45:57,300
Is this idea of changing from
man to woman and woman to man,

1639
01:45:58,000 --> 01:46:03,300
it was absolutely an Abomination
the egg, right?

1640
01:46:03,300 --> 01:46:07,000
That we all liked color is kids
and whatnot.

1641
01:46:08,900 --> 01:46:13,500
Those are you know that that has
symbolism back to her fertility

1642
01:46:13,500 --> 01:46:17,200
rites.
And so some of this is Deeply

1643
01:46:17,200 --> 01:46:21,200
interwoven and we have a real
challenge, I think of trying to

1644
01:46:21,200 --> 01:46:23,400
parse it out.
And I never used to be this guy

1645
01:46:23,400 --> 01:46:25,000
either.
I was more the guy like you're

1646
01:46:25,000 --> 01:46:28,800
reading too much into it and you
know, you're, you're diving too

1647
01:46:28,800 --> 01:46:32,100
deep and but the more I looked
at it, the more I was like,

1648
01:46:32,200 --> 01:46:37,700
whoo, whoo, this is not good.
Oh, yeah, now I remember that.

1649
01:46:37,700 --> 01:46:40,300
Like, I remember growing up, you
know, Disney movies, you know,

1650
01:46:40,300 --> 01:46:42,800
lad and Little Mermaid.
I do, whatever.

1651
01:46:42,800 --> 01:46:45,100
It's fun game.
So I kind of grew up with it.

1652
01:46:45,100 --> 01:46:47,900
So, I got these this kind of
I'll check attachment to it, but

1653
01:46:47,900 --> 01:46:50,400
then I watch it as a parent.
It's like, well, my kids

1654
01:46:50,400 --> 01:46:53,900
watching this, this is, this is
a story about, you know, this is

1655
01:46:53,900 --> 01:46:56,900
kind of glorifying theft, this
one's kind of glorifying,

1656
01:46:56,900 --> 01:47:00,200
disobeying your parents and
making deals with the devil

1657
01:47:00,200 --> 01:47:03,500
instead and don't worry.
It's got a happy ending because

1658
01:47:03,500 --> 01:47:07,300
this, right?
And suddenly, it's like, mmm

1659
01:47:07,600 --> 01:47:10,200
man.
I used to not be that guy but

1660
01:47:10,500 --> 01:47:14,700
I'm starting to become that guy
because yeah man once you kind

1661
01:47:14,700 --> 01:47:16,900
of pull back the curtain on some
of this stuff Tough.

1662
01:47:16,900 --> 01:47:19,900
It's like it.
Maybe it's harmless, maybe it's

1663
01:47:19,900 --> 01:47:24,500
all fun and games but you kind
of got to ask yourself.

1664
01:47:25,200 --> 01:47:28,400
How can you get it wrong?
Pretty much every single time

1665
01:47:28,400 --> 01:47:30,500
though, right?
Why does every single kids movie

1666
01:47:30,500 --> 01:47:34,300
that comes out, have to preach
some kind of the anti parent

1667
01:47:34,400 --> 01:47:40,500
anti Christian values anti, even
just trick it anti traditional

1668
01:47:40,500 --> 01:47:45,200
culture that I use.
I mean, it's it can't just be a

1669
01:47:45,200 --> 01:47:46,300
half.
I mean, there's got to be an

1670
01:47:46,300 --> 01:47:46,900
agenda.
Here.

1671
01:47:46,900 --> 01:47:50,700
And I think it's undeniable that
it is, maybe it's slow, but over

1672
01:47:50,700 --> 01:47:53,000
time, this is having an effect
on culture.

1673
01:47:53,300 --> 01:47:58,900
Absolutely is so, I mean, I
don't know what your thoughts.

1674
01:47:58,900 --> 01:48:02,300
What, how do you take that back
even well.

1675
01:48:02,600 --> 01:48:05,300
So, this is kind of interesting,
because I remember reading quite

1676
01:48:05,300 --> 01:48:10,200
a bit about Easter and it's
Pagan Traditions.

1677
01:48:10,400 --> 01:48:13,600
Mmm, I'm a long time ago, and,
you know, I knew we were going

1678
01:48:13,600 --> 01:48:15,800
to come on and, and we're going
to be talking about the

1679
01:48:15,800 --> 01:48:17,700
atonement.
But also, Also, maybe Eastern

1680
01:48:17,700 --> 01:48:19,200
little bit.
I thought I'd, you know, just,

1681
01:48:19,200 --> 01:48:20,800
you know, freshen up on some of
that.

1682
01:48:20,800 --> 01:48:22,000
Yeah, absolutely.
So.

1683
01:48:22,300 --> 01:48:27,500
So you know, I do a Google
search Easter is star and I

1684
01:48:27,500 --> 01:48:35,700
can't find a single site on
Google's top list that isn't

1685
01:48:35,700 --> 01:48:38,000
saying that that's not true at
all and it's been completely

1686
01:48:38,000 --> 01:48:43,300
debunked.
So I'm like hmm that's

1687
01:48:43,300 --> 01:48:45,400
interesting.
Well, maybe maybe maybe it has

1688
01:48:45,400 --> 01:48:47,700
been debunked, I don't know.
Maybe that's maybe that's not

1689
01:48:47,700 --> 01:48:50,300
the case may be.
It is a Christian tradition.

1690
01:48:50,300 --> 01:48:55,900
I mean if it's true I'd be open
to that but I start looking at

1691
01:48:55,900 --> 01:48:58,700
these are all these articles and
they're all like, you know, 2000

1692
01:48:58,800 --> 01:49:03,900
2021 2022 2023.
And I start reading them and

1693
01:49:03,900 --> 01:49:08,700
they're all saying that the
exact date like huge chunks are

1694
01:49:08,700 --> 01:49:11,600
quoted verbatim.
And all of these things I'm just

1695
01:49:11,600 --> 01:49:14,600
like, well, that's kind of
interesting.

1696
01:49:15,000 --> 01:49:18,900
That's kind of interesting.
I can't seem to find anything

1697
01:49:18,900 --> 01:49:23,600
suggesting that Easter has
anything to do with Pagan

1698
01:49:23,600 --> 01:49:29,300
religion and I'm doing a Google
search.

1699
01:49:30,000 --> 01:49:33,100
I mean, I thought Google
supposed to be like, you know,

1700
01:49:33,100 --> 01:49:36,600
anti Christian values.
What, what, what is Google's

1701
01:49:36,600 --> 01:49:40,900
motivation and, and the media is
motivation, And promoting, I

1702
01:49:40,907 --> 01:49:42,800
mean, some of the stories are
from, you know, these kind of

1703
01:49:42,800 --> 01:49:46,800
mega churches that kind of
bought into that whole, what was

1704
01:49:46,800 --> 01:49:50,100
that campaign?
They ran the Super Bowl Christ,

1705
01:49:50,100 --> 01:49:53,600
he knows us, right?
Said of, instead of instead of

1706
01:49:53,600 --> 01:49:57,300
Christ, he's your savior,
repent, it was no, he gets you,

1707
01:49:57,400 --> 01:50:01,300
he gets you.
Okay, no, no, okay, whatever,

1708
01:50:01,300 --> 01:50:03,400
but it's those same kinds of
churches that are there.

1709
01:50:04,300 --> 01:50:06,700
Promoting these messages and
here, we've got big Tech.

1710
01:50:06,700 --> 01:50:10,300
Who seems to be really pushing
this idea.

1711
01:50:11,500 --> 01:50:13,500
And so I kind of was looking
through these articles.

1712
01:50:13,500 --> 01:50:15,700
I mean, would you be interested
in trying to challenge some of

1713
01:50:15,708 --> 01:50:18,200
these points?
Yeah, yeah.

1714
01:50:18,200 --> 01:50:19,900
What see what we can come up
with?

1715
01:50:19,900 --> 01:50:22,700
I don't know what they are, but
let's give it a crap.

1716
01:50:24,200 --> 01:50:29,500
All right, so this was just a
short one I found from a radio

1717
01:50:30,800 --> 01:50:35,600
Radio guy.
Where'd it go saying that Easter

1718
01:50:35,600 --> 01:50:40,300
is not a pagan holiday,
Christian radio talk show.

1719
01:50:42,300 --> 01:50:46,000
Looks like a kale Clark Show.
I'm not familiar with it, but I

1720
01:50:46,008 --> 01:50:50,600
don't know it.
So he basically starts off by

1721
01:50:50,600 --> 01:50:54,600
saying that he quotes this
scholar.

1722
01:50:55,300 --> 01:50:58,000
Well, first of all, he says,
it's a meme, there's recently

1723
01:50:58,000 --> 01:51:00,200
been a meme going around
suggesting Eastern Ishtar

1724
01:51:00,200 --> 01:51:02,300
connected and I don't know,
maybe there is, I'm not on

1725
01:51:02,300 --> 01:51:06,500
social media anymore, but this
goes way back, this goes a lot

1726
01:51:06,500 --> 01:51:09,900
further back then than a meme,
you know, in the last year or

1727
01:51:09,900 --> 01:51:14,100
two, but it's Art's out trying
to set it in that kind of a

1728
01:51:14,100 --> 01:51:19,100
context and then he quotes this
saint Betty a Catholic in

1729
01:51:19,100 --> 01:51:25,000
English and English Catholic
monk who basically puts forth

1730
01:51:25,000 --> 01:51:39,800
this claim that it is a it's
called after the God, okay?

1731
01:51:39,800 --> 01:51:42,300
He basically makes the claim
that Easter the month of the

1732
01:51:42,300 --> 01:51:47,000
holiday that we call Easter was
called after a goddess of these

1733
01:51:47,000 --> 01:51:53,600
pagans named Yost, Ray.
Whose honor Feast was celebrated

1734
01:51:53,600 --> 01:51:57,500
in that month then and so this
is a this is a quote from a

1735
01:51:57,500 --> 01:52:02,700
Catholic monk and 725.
A.d. making the case that Easter

1736
01:52:02,800 --> 01:52:08,600
has pagan origins.
But apparently and I think this

1737
01:52:08,600 --> 01:52:11,000
would be worth going over
because I keep finding these

1738
01:52:11,000 --> 01:52:12,900
points everywhere when I look
for this now.

1739
01:52:12,900 --> 01:52:15,300
So that's why I was like, you
know, I want to bring this up

1740
01:52:15,300 --> 01:52:17,600
because if anybody's listening
to this and they decided to do

1741
01:52:17,600 --> 01:52:19,700
their own Google search on it,
they're probably going to find

1742
01:52:19,700 --> 01:52:22,200
this kind of an article because
this is is just right

1743
01:52:22,200 --> 01:52:25,200
everywhere.
So this guy claims are several

1744
01:52:25,200 --> 01:52:28,400
things worth noting about Saint
beta is writing first, it's

1745
01:52:28,400 --> 01:52:30,800
worth reiterating that this is
the only piece of writing in

1746
01:52:30,800 --> 01:52:34,100
human history, that mentions the
goddess Pele stray.

1747
01:52:36,700 --> 01:52:43,000
I find that kind of interesting.
However, have you ever read some

1748
01:52:43,000 --> 01:52:46,800
of the church history stuff like
Britain and journals from the

1749
01:52:46,800 --> 01:52:48,700
actual Journal like the
handwritten type Journal?

1750
01:52:48,700 --> 01:52:50,100
Sure.
Got these sure.

1751
01:52:50,100 --> 01:52:53,900
Thanks.
It was shocking to me out first

1752
01:52:53,900 --> 01:53:00,800
how Challenging spelling,
apparently it was yeah, not even

1753
01:53:00,800 --> 01:53:02,700
that long.
I mean today with computers

1754
01:53:02,700 --> 01:53:05,800
autocorrect our current
education system, it seems

1755
01:53:05,800 --> 01:53:10,100
pretty straightforward, but I
don't think spelling was nearly

1756
01:53:10,100 --> 01:53:14,000
as straightforward in the past
and especially when you're

1757
01:53:14,000 --> 01:53:16,500
trying to describe the name of
some God.

1758
01:53:17,200 --> 01:53:19,600
In some religion, who might be
using an entirely different

1759
01:53:19,600 --> 01:53:22,600
language than you're using, how
do you end up coming up with

1760
01:53:22,600 --> 01:53:24,600
that?
So, I mean, he's saying that

1761
01:53:24,600 --> 01:53:27,100
this goddess, yo, straight
doesn't show up.

1762
01:53:27,100 --> 01:53:31,000
Is it mention anywhere else?
Well, what does he mean by the

1763
01:53:31,000 --> 01:53:34,800
goddess EOS tray?
Because there's also in the

1764
01:53:34,800 --> 01:53:39,400
Pagan world, you often had God's
being transplanted from culture

1765
01:53:39,400 --> 01:53:41,000
to culture to culture and each
culture.

1766
01:53:41,000 --> 01:53:43,000
They, when culture would go to
bat, you know, they go to

1767
01:53:43,000 --> 01:53:44,800
Babylon.
Oh, I like that, God.

1768
01:53:45,100 --> 01:53:47,400
Well, we're going to take that
God back to our People.

1769
01:53:47,500 --> 01:53:49,900
But in our language, we're going
to call that God and they'll

1770
01:53:49,900 --> 01:53:51,200
come up with an entirely new
name.

1771
01:53:51,200 --> 01:53:53,600
Sometimes they're phonetically
similar, sometimes they're not

1772
01:53:53,600 --> 01:53:56,900
similar at all.
And that was a pretty common

1773
01:53:56,900 --> 01:54:00,100
practice.
So just because you can't find a

1774
01:54:00,100 --> 01:54:04,900
goddess by that specific
spelling, don't think that

1775
01:54:04,900 --> 01:54:08,000
necessarily means that this guy
was up in the air.

1776
01:54:08,000 --> 01:54:09,600
I mean he had to come up with it
somewhere.

1777
01:54:09,600 --> 01:54:12,800
I mean, do you think this
Catholic monk was just like, I'm

1778
01:54:12,800 --> 01:54:16,800
going to make up a fake goddess
and I mean everybody around

1779
01:54:17,000 --> 01:54:21,200
Probably be like nobody's ever
heard of that goddess, you're

1780
01:54:21,200 --> 01:54:21,900
lying.
What you?

1781
01:54:21,900 --> 01:54:23,800
Just wrote there, that isn't
true.

1782
01:54:24,100 --> 01:54:25,700
Yeah, I mean he wouldn't do
that.

1783
01:54:25,700 --> 01:54:27,200
Right?
Right.

1784
01:54:27,200 --> 01:54:32,200
The and here's the other thing
we know for a fact that the gods

1785
01:54:32,200 --> 01:54:37,400
were shared across culture.
It happened a lot between Rome

1786
01:54:37,400 --> 01:54:43,300
and Egypt.
Isis and Aphrodite, and then you

1787
01:54:43,300 --> 01:54:46,800
can trace it back further.
So I just read a fascinating

1788
01:54:46,800 --> 01:54:49,100
book about this and I can't
recommend it enough.

1789
01:54:49,100 --> 01:54:55,900
It's by a guy who was born
Jewish and then became a

1790
01:54:55,900 --> 01:54:58,300
Christian minister.
And his name is Jonathan Cahn

1791
01:54:59,300 --> 01:55:02,600
and he has a book called Return
of the Gods and he died

1792
01:55:02,600 --> 01:55:06,500
recommend it.
He does a very good job of

1793
01:55:06,500 --> 01:55:11,500
documenting how those those and
In parentheses here for anyone

1794
01:55:11,500 --> 01:55:18,900
not watching God's, how they,
how they went from one Society

1795
01:55:18,900 --> 01:55:22,600
to another right through trans
through, you know, people

1796
01:55:22,600 --> 01:55:25,000
visiting Egypt.
And then they take it back to

1797
01:55:25,000 --> 01:55:28,700
Rome.
So if you look at like Isis in

1798
01:55:28,700 --> 01:55:34,300
Egypt, well you saw that the
Romans, Identified her as

1799
01:55:34,300 --> 01:55:39,100
Aphrodite.
Likewise the Babylonians Isis

1800
01:55:39,100 --> 01:55:45,400
was Ishtar and so when this
Catholic monk starts finding

1801
01:55:45,400 --> 01:55:47,600
another name, you got to ask a
question.

1802
01:55:47,600 --> 01:55:52,600
He's probably not familiar with
with whatever the Babylonians

1803
01:55:52,600 --> 01:55:57,000
were speaking, or with whatever
the the native tongue was of the

1804
01:55:57,000 --> 01:56:01,800
Egyptians, maybe he was really
good with Latin, but we know

1805
01:56:01,800 --> 01:56:04,000
Latin wouldn't come across the
same way.

1806
01:56:04,400 --> 01:56:09,000
So, I think there's enough there
that you got to say.

1807
01:56:09,000 --> 01:56:12,100
Okay, it looks to me like this
was one of those cases where

1808
01:56:12,100 --> 01:56:17,100
this God was carried in by her
adherence to a different

1809
01:56:17,100 --> 01:56:19,300
civilization.
And that's how he was able to

1810
01:56:19,300 --> 01:56:22,200
translate.
Yeah, exactly.

1811
01:56:22,200 --> 01:56:23,800
I that's that's what I come to
to.

1812
01:56:23,800 --> 01:56:26,400
I don't think that really proves
anything just because you don't

1813
01:56:26,400 --> 01:56:29,100
find that specific spelling of
this God, right?

1814
01:56:29,100 --> 01:56:34,400
I mean he wasn't talking about
Isis or is star And then his

1815
01:56:34,400 --> 01:56:36,900
second point is really kind of
the same.

1816
01:56:36,900 --> 01:56:40,100
Actually he says, as Sorensen
mention it's more likely that

1817
01:56:40,100 --> 01:56:43,000
saying that a was mistaken about
this adoption for several

1818
01:56:43,000 --> 01:56:46,600
reasons.
Yo, straight does not appear in

1819
01:56:46,600 --> 01:56:48,600
any of the surrounding
mythologies as she would.

1820
01:56:48,600 --> 01:56:52,000
If she were a goddess, you can't
make that judgment.

1821
01:56:52,000 --> 01:56:54,700
Unless you know, the story of
this goddess though, which this

1822
01:56:55,000 --> 01:56:57,500
Catholic priest didn't share, I
mean, without the story.

1823
01:56:57,500 --> 01:57:01,700
How can you know whether that
God has existed in knew that

1824
01:57:01,700 --> 01:57:03,300
other surrounding cultures
mythologies?

1825
01:57:03,300 --> 01:57:04,900
They Don't keep the same names
to these things.

1826
01:57:04,900 --> 01:57:08,300
You wouldn't expect them to keep
the same names even within a

1827
01:57:08,308 --> 01:57:11,200
single Society to the names
change over time.

1828
01:57:11,700 --> 01:57:14,800
Well let's just look at
Christianity right?

1829
01:57:14,800 --> 01:57:20,500
When Christianity starts out.
The name of Jesus in Aramaic and

1830
01:57:20,500 --> 01:57:27,400
Hebrew is Joshua right?
And then the hellenized version

1831
01:57:27,400 --> 01:57:33,100
of that becomes Jesus.
And so you essentially have the

1832
01:57:33,100 --> 01:57:37,700
same thing on Christianity side,
right?

1833
01:57:37,700 --> 01:57:43,000
Yeah, this this name that is
carried over and is translated

1834
01:57:43,000 --> 01:57:46,800
differently.
Oh yeah, like in Korean, it's

1835
01:57:47,200 --> 01:57:49,800
Yaesu.
Yeah, how do they end up with

1836
01:57:49,800 --> 01:57:50,700
the issue?
Shouldn't?

1837
01:57:50,700 --> 01:57:53,200
I mean the Koreans can make the
sounds for Jesus for the most

1838
01:57:53,200 --> 01:57:54,600
part are why wouldn't they go to
Jesus?

1839
01:57:54,600 --> 01:57:58,300
Well, because the Bible was
taken by Spanish missionaries

1840
01:57:58,300 --> 01:58:01,600
into China, right?
And then it went from China to

1841
01:58:01,600 --> 01:58:06,700
Korea.
And and so they pronounce the J

1842
01:58:06,700 --> 01:58:11,900
is as the a, in its Yaesu.
So, yeah, it that argument is

1843
01:58:11,900 --> 01:58:15,900
that guy makes that are in that
article holds no water none.

1844
01:58:16,000 --> 01:58:18,300
Yeah.
So those are his first two

1845
01:58:18,300 --> 01:58:21,300
arguments and I agree.
I think they're very, very weak

1846
01:58:21,300 --> 01:58:26,700
that doesn't prove or disprove
anything other than that pagan

1847
01:58:26,700 --> 01:58:31,800
gods are diverse and
interpretation and in name and

1848
01:58:31,800 --> 01:58:35,300
in pronunciation and he Even
Ishtar, you know, I think that

1849
01:58:35,300 --> 01:58:38,000
we print out different.
People have different finesses

1850
01:58:38,000 --> 01:58:39,800
Asians of, of how they don't say
that.

1851
01:58:39,800 --> 01:58:43,400
So, so here's where I get a
little more interesting.

1852
01:58:44,800 --> 01:58:48,700
Thirdly, if she was a local
goddess, why would the Catholic

1853
01:58:48,700 --> 01:58:53,400
Church adopt and christianize a
springtime celebration of hers?

1854
01:58:57,300 --> 01:59:00,000
Well, I think you have to look
at the Catholic church has an

1855
01:59:00,000 --> 01:59:06,200
extension of Rome, and we know
for a fact, Rome did this a lot,

1856
01:59:06,200 --> 01:59:08,900
right?
Because when Rome was Empire

1857
01:59:08,900 --> 01:59:12,200
Building, I'm not a fan of
Empires II.

1858
01:59:12,200 --> 01:59:15,000
Want to get that out of the way,
but as far as being able to

1859
01:59:15,008 --> 01:59:18,900
build a really sustainable
Empire, Rome had it figured out,

1860
01:59:18,900 --> 01:59:20,300
right?
We're going to go in.

1861
01:59:20,900 --> 01:59:24,200
We're going to show overwhelming
Force, so hopefully no one ever

1862
01:59:24,200 --> 01:59:26,000
fires a shot.
The right that's the other

1863
01:59:26,000 --> 01:59:27,800
thing.
It's lost in history, is that

1864
01:59:27,800 --> 01:59:32,400
Rome conquers a lot of ground
without ever tossing a spear or

1865
01:59:32,400 --> 01:59:35,600
firing an arrow, right?
Just the, the sight of these

1866
01:59:35,600 --> 01:59:39,300
guys come in was enough to be
like, so you just want us to pay

1867
01:59:39,300 --> 01:59:44,100
taxes and we can keep our God's
Good.

1868
01:59:44,100 --> 01:59:51,400
We're fine.
We'll go with that and so The

1869
01:59:51,400 --> 01:59:57,000
the fact that that Rome was able
to do that, when's itself to

1870
01:59:57,000 --> 01:59:59,300
just that thing that you were
talking about there.

1871
02:00:00,300 --> 02:00:04,100
Yeah, well it was keep your Gods
but also subvert them right?

1872
02:00:04,200 --> 02:00:07,900
You had this gymnasium culture
stuff that they had right from

1873
02:00:07,900 --> 02:00:11,700
the Greeks and they were
actually pretty good at

1874
02:00:12,500 --> 02:00:14,900
subverting the cultures that
they conquered as well.

1875
02:00:14,900 --> 02:00:17,000
I think that was part of the
success of their empire was they

1876
02:00:17,000 --> 02:00:20,700
realize we need if we conquer an
Empire, we need things to be.

1877
02:00:21,700 --> 02:00:25,500
I'm a modulus.
Yeah, among these different

1878
02:00:25,500 --> 02:00:29,200
conquered vassal States or
they're going to knock it along

1879
02:00:29,200 --> 02:00:32,500
and break off and there's going
to be conflict and so they were

1880
02:00:32,500 --> 02:00:36,500
really good at bringing all that
kind of stuff together and they

1881
02:00:36,500 --> 02:00:39,700
were very good at doing it in a
politically correct way.

1882
02:00:39,700 --> 02:00:41,300
Right.
And so they you could keep your

1883
02:00:41,300 --> 02:00:46,100
God but your God has to now mean
what they want it to mean is

1884
02:00:46,100 --> 02:00:49,000
kind of was the really the true
approach that was going on

1885
02:00:49,000 --> 02:00:52,200
there, right?
And I think, It was in

1886
02:00:52,200 --> 02:01:00,500
Christianity that they found
this kind of a a perfect, a

1887
02:01:00,500 --> 02:01:04,500
perfect weapon.
Brother Empire Building, because

1888
02:01:05,600 --> 02:01:09,300
for whatever reason, there are
these fragments of truths and

1889
02:01:09,300 --> 02:01:12,200
all these Pagan religions.
And there's the Tricia's into

1890
02:01:12,200 --> 02:01:17,000
these stories that all kind of,
really kind of point back to

1891
02:01:17,000 --> 02:01:19,400
Christ and stuff.
I mean, did you know Egyptians

1892
02:01:19,400 --> 02:01:22,900
you've got you know the with the
story Isis and all that

1893
02:01:23,900 --> 02:01:27,500
resurrections going on.
There's these fragments of Truth

1894
02:01:27,500 --> 02:01:30,600
in all of these things.
And I think they recognize well

1895
02:01:30,600 --> 02:01:35,500
in Christianity and The story of
Christ, we can actually unify

1896
02:01:35,800 --> 02:01:39,100
all this stuff, even even better
than we've ever done before, we

1897
02:01:39,100 --> 02:01:42,300
can bring it all together, but
in doing.

1898
02:01:42,300 --> 02:01:46,200
So they also polluted the
previous a lot of the primary

1899
02:01:46,500 --> 02:01:49,900
meanings and messages.
And they also had to make

1900
02:01:49,900 --> 02:01:52,700
concessions because some of
their people really like their

1901
02:01:52,700 --> 02:01:55,400
parties.
And so it was like fine.

1902
02:01:55,900 --> 02:02:00,800
Keep your keep your party but
convert to Christianity, right?

1903
02:02:01,000 --> 02:02:03,900
Right.
And Yeah, and I think that's an

1904
02:02:03,900 --> 02:02:06,300
outgrowth of that Roman
mentality, right?

1905
02:02:06,600 --> 02:02:13,600
And so they're, they're able to
to use their their subverted

1906
02:02:13,600 --> 02:02:17,200
cultures.
If you will use their their

1907
02:02:17,200 --> 02:02:19,600
holidays, to reinforce their
religion.

1908
02:02:20,200 --> 02:02:25,500
And at the same time, it it's a
heck of a unifier, right?

1909
02:02:25,500 --> 02:02:27,900
Well, I mean, that's actually
Fascinate isn't there some

1910
02:02:27,900 --> 02:02:30,300
interesting parallels to today,
right?

1911
02:02:30,300 --> 02:02:31,700
I mean, did I don't, we just
have to do it.

1912
02:02:31,800 --> 02:02:34,400
You just get a new holiday.
I don't know if it was official

1913
02:02:34,400 --> 02:02:36,900
or not, but this trans day of
visibility.

1914
02:02:37,400 --> 02:02:41,300
Yes, yes we did.
Yes, you are correct.

1915
02:02:42,500 --> 02:02:47,100
It's interesting how Empires use
these things to, you know, kind

1916
02:02:47,100 --> 02:02:50,600
of subvert culture.
So yeah, so this argument, if it

1917
02:02:50,600 --> 02:02:53,200
was a local goddess, why would
the Catholic Church adopt and

1918
02:02:53,200 --> 02:02:59,200
christianize that kind of a
Pagan religion, or or

1919
02:02:59,200 --> 02:03:04,700
celebration?
Well, Because they don't want to

1920
02:03:04,800 --> 02:03:06,500
cause a revolution.
They don't want to rock the

1921
02:03:06,500 --> 02:03:10,100
boat, they're trying to make
everything, everything just kind

1922
02:03:10,100 --> 02:03:15,500
of equally corrupt, right,
right?

1923
02:03:15,700 --> 02:03:18,700
And like you said to because
they did it with everything else

1924
02:03:19,000 --> 02:03:24,000
along with Christianity.
I mean over time, nothing

1925
02:03:24,000 --> 02:03:25,900
happens.
Then vacuum you have to look at

1926
02:03:25,900 --> 02:03:29,800
where where you know Christendom
got it.

1927
02:03:30,700 --> 02:03:33,800
Got, it's funny.
Start right with this Chrome

1928
02:03:33,900 --> 02:03:35,500
from a Catholic.
I don't think this guy's a

1929
02:03:35,500 --> 02:03:38,600
Catholic.
Maybe the sky is a cat, I don't

1930
02:03:38,600 --> 02:03:41,400
know.
It'd be funny if it was a

1931
02:03:41,400 --> 02:03:46,400
Protestant making this argument
on Catholic Church would do

1932
02:03:46,400 --> 02:03:48,600
something like that.
Right.

1933
02:03:49,000 --> 02:03:56,100
But as essentially, Culturally
Protestant at least as far as

1934
02:03:56,100 --> 02:04:00,200
the Catholic Church goes.
I don't find it that difficult

1935
02:04:00,200 --> 02:04:02,100
to understand why that would
happen.

1936
02:04:02,100 --> 02:04:04,900
So that was his that was his
third argument.

1937
02:04:04,900 --> 02:04:08,900
Now here's this fourth one.
Making the jump from a goddess

1938
02:04:08,900 --> 02:04:11,900
named illustrator who may or may
not have actually been part of

1939
02:04:11,900 --> 02:04:14,200
the Pagan religion to Ishtar The
Babylon.

1940
02:04:14,200 --> 02:04:17,400
Deity isn't logical.
Whoo.

1941
02:04:17,400 --> 02:04:18,100
Whoo.
Whoo.

1942
02:04:19,100 --> 02:04:21,500
Whoo, that's it.
That's a strong argument there.

1943
02:04:21,500 --> 02:04:24,700
I'm not, I'm not sure if I could
counter that, although he's got

1944
02:04:24,700 --> 02:04:28,000
a little more to say, let me
keep going to be fair, you know

1945
02:04:28,000 --> 02:04:31,700
stray, likely comes from
yesterday, which means, meant

1946
02:04:31,700 --> 02:04:34,900
Springtime or Dawn, and Old
English East are.

1947
02:04:34,900 --> 02:04:38,000
The Babylonian goddess is the
goddess of many things,

1948
02:04:38,000 --> 02:04:41,000
including fertility, and sex,
and the supporters of the Ishtar

1949
02:04:41,000 --> 02:04:44,100
Theory have conveniently chosen,
those two devotions to match

1950
02:04:44,600 --> 02:04:51,300
Springtime in life.
So OK, that to me logically that

1951
02:04:51,700 --> 02:04:54,500
he argued against this point,
right?

1952
02:04:56,600 --> 02:05:00,400
And it really begs the question.
It really, really begs the

1953
02:05:00,407 --> 02:05:05,500
question if Easter and the way
we celebrate Easter is Christian

1954
02:05:05,500 --> 02:05:11,000
in any way or form.
Then why does the symbology I'll

1955
02:05:11,000 --> 02:05:14,600
point to Ishtar regardless of,
whether you called Ishtar or

1956
02:05:14,600 --> 02:05:18,200
yellow stray, or whatever,
you've got, you know, these this

1957
02:05:18,200 --> 02:05:21,900
focus on these eggs which you
know that it makes sense from a

1958
02:05:21,900 --> 02:05:24,400
fertility perspective.
One of the counter arguments

1959
02:05:24,400 --> 02:05:30,200
that I've seen also is that.
Well, eggs and bunnies are not

1960
02:05:30,200 --> 02:05:35,500
are not symbols of of Ishtar.
Her thing was was lions and I'm

1961
02:05:35,508 --> 02:05:39,100
like well but she was the
goddess of fertility, right?

1962
02:05:39,100 --> 02:05:44,300
I mean I don't think it takes a
genius to realize, there's kind

1963
02:05:44,300 --> 02:05:53,300
of a symbolic connection between
things like eggs and rabbits and

1964
02:05:53,300 --> 02:05:55,300
the concept of fertility.
If you can't, if you can't

1965
02:05:55,300 --> 02:06:00,800
connect those dots, then I don't
know what else to say they're

1966
02:06:00,800 --> 02:06:03,500
pretty.
And if you're going to argue

1967
02:06:03,500 --> 02:06:06,900
that it is somehow Christian
then.

1968
02:06:07,000 --> 02:06:11,000
Okay, where does that go?
Where is Christ described as the

1969
02:06:11,100 --> 02:06:16,800
That we're we're, you know, in
where is the sacrament of eggs,

1970
02:06:17,400 --> 02:06:21,400
right?
In the Bible, where does that

1971
02:06:21,400 --> 02:06:26,100
come from?
And also conveniently, they're

1972
02:06:26,100 --> 02:06:28,800
speaking as far as each star
goes that they can't connect it

1973
02:06:28,800 --> 02:06:30,500
to eggs.
Well, is this think as you

1974
02:06:30,500 --> 02:06:34,900
pointed out that Ishtar has many
names, including Isis including

1975
02:06:35,200 --> 02:06:37,600
Aphrodite.
Yep, Aphrodite.

1976
02:06:38,200 --> 02:06:46,400
I'm a pronounced that wrong but
no, And one of them also is is

1977
02:06:46,400 --> 02:06:51,800
this idea of Venus and the birth
of Venus in an egg or a clam

1978
02:06:51,800 --> 02:06:56,500
shell.
So, you actually can tie all of

1979
02:06:56,500 --> 02:07:01,000
the symbolism of what we
celebrate in Easter to these

1980
02:07:01,800 --> 02:07:04,900
pagan holidays.
So, to me, it's kind of like,

1981
02:07:04,900 --> 02:07:08,500
whether you call it.
I mean, whether you can you

1982
02:07:08,500 --> 02:07:12,800
know, from a scholarly
perspective, find evidence of

1983
02:07:12,800 --> 02:07:17,100
this chain of custody for these
writings that go back to Ishtar

1984
02:07:17,100 --> 02:07:20,400
directly or not, it doesn't
really change the fact that the

1985
02:07:20,400 --> 02:07:23,200
symbol the symbolisms have
nothing.

1986
02:07:23,400 --> 02:07:26,100
To do with Christ in the
atonement or the resurrection

1987
02:07:26,600 --> 02:07:30,200
and everything to do with Pagan
fertility Gods.

1988
02:07:30,800 --> 02:07:35,400
Yeah, okay.
I'm going to share a story.

1989
02:07:35,400 --> 02:07:38,900
Now that I have never shared on
the podcast, I've alluded to it

1990
02:07:38,900 --> 02:07:41,600
a couple of times but I've never
shared it.

1991
02:07:43,200 --> 02:07:46,200
When I worked back East, I
worked with a good friend whose

1992
02:07:46,200 --> 02:07:50,100
name was Joel and Joel's dad was
a rabbi.

1993
02:07:51,200 --> 02:07:53,600
And immediately.
I was like, whoo.

1994
02:07:53,600 --> 02:07:56,000
Cuz I was just fascinated with
with Judaism.

1995
02:07:56,000 --> 02:07:59,100
I still am, right?
It's hard to understand.

1996
02:07:59,300 --> 02:08:04,200
Jesus, without understanding his
background and Judaism is his

1997
02:08:04,200 --> 02:08:10,400
background right up there.
So, I had a very big drive and,

1998
02:08:10,400 --> 02:08:14,800
and Joel's dad was super
accommodating, right?

1999
02:08:14,800 --> 02:08:16,900
I was like, I want to see a
satyr meal.

2000
02:08:17,000 --> 02:08:19,400
He's like, well, come on over.
I'll let you participate in and

2001
02:08:19,400 --> 02:08:22,600
bring your wife and your kids
and and absolutely and he was

2002
02:08:22,600 --> 02:08:27,500
super accommodating.
And I promise you, this is going

2003
02:08:27,500 --> 02:08:32,400
someplace.
I was reading and Lamentations

2004
02:08:32,400 --> 02:08:37,700
and Jeremiah and I kept coming
across but all of Molech all the

2005
02:08:37,708 --> 02:08:41,700
time, right?
And I'm like, okay the Lord's

2006
02:08:41,700 --> 02:08:44,700
pointing me here, but I don't
understand what he's trying to

2007
02:08:44,700 --> 02:08:48,200
tell me.
Well, it's Old Testament stuff.

2008
02:08:48,600 --> 02:08:50,000
Let's go.
Talk to Joel's dad.

2009
02:08:50,900 --> 02:08:54,800
So I make an appointment to go
see Joel's dad and I sit down.

2010
02:08:54,800 --> 02:08:57,700
I start talking with him.
And I said, tell me what this

2011
02:08:57,700 --> 02:09:04,900
means in lamentation is Jeremiah
and he goes, no, I'm thinking,

2012
02:09:05,500 --> 02:09:08,000
what, what the hell do you mean
know, you've been so open with

2013
02:09:08,000 --> 02:09:11,000
me so far, what do you mean?
No, he's like, that's not for

2014
02:09:11,000 --> 02:09:14,400
you Gentiles, he's like just
trust.

2015
02:09:14,400 --> 02:09:16,900
There's a real good reason.
We don't do this.

2016
02:09:17,300 --> 02:09:20,300
We're where we don't pass this
along without a lot.

2017
02:09:20,500 --> 02:09:25,400
Lot of Preparatory work.
So, no.

2018
02:09:26,300 --> 02:09:28,700
And I said well can I have the
Preparatory work?

2019
02:09:28,700 --> 02:09:33,000
And he said no.
And so I left somewhat dejected

2020
02:09:33,000 --> 02:09:37,600
in a little pissed off, right?
And he, he calls me back a few

2021
02:09:37,600 --> 02:09:42,500
days later and he said, I can't
get our last conversation out of

2022
02:09:42,500 --> 02:09:46,400
our mind, out of my mind.
So I'm going to tell you.

2023
02:09:46,400 --> 02:09:50,400
And then what you do with it is
on you from there.

2024
02:09:51,400 --> 02:09:55,000
So come over at this time and it
was a couple days later and I'll

2025
02:09:55,000 --> 02:09:57,300
break this all down for you,
essentially.

2026
02:09:58,800 --> 02:10:01,700
So we go in and we go into a
study and this is when I know

2027
02:10:01,700 --> 02:10:03,700
things are getting serious
because he only goes into a

2028
02:10:03,708 --> 02:10:10,000
study, when he's about to talk
about some big things, and he

2029
02:10:10,000 --> 02:10:13,600
takes me into his study.
And he says, first, let me tell

2030
02:10:13,600 --> 02:10:17,600
you why we tend to be careful
about who we pass this along to.

2031
02:10:19,300 --> 02:10:24,600
because America made the same
Covenant with the god of

2032
02:10:24,600 --> 02:10:31,500
Abraham, Isaac and Jacob as
Israel did and every time, But

2033
02:10:31,500 --> 02:10:38,400
all our moloch shows up that
Nation Falls. and he says I'm

2034
02:10:38,400 --> 02:10:43,900
going to tell you what the
ancient practices were and then

2035
02:10:43,900 --> 02:10:49,500
tell you about how it's being
practiced today and I said whoa

2036
02:10:49,500 --> 02:10:53,700
slow down you're telling me
today people are worshiping but

2037
02:10:53,700 --> 02:10:58,900
all and Molech and he goes and
Ishtar You can't forget about

2038
02:10:58,900 --> 02:11:03,100
Ishtar and I'm like, okay,
whoever this is.

2039
02:11:04,800 --> 02:11:08,100
So he starts telling me about
how Israel fell into it during

2040
02:11:08,100 --> 02:11:12,200
the times of Lamentations in
Jeremiah interestingly enough.

2041
02:11:12,200 --> 02:11:15,200
That's the same time.
Lehi begins to be plucked out of

2042
02:11:15,200 --> 02:11:19,100
Israel to to make his journey to
the new world.

2043
02:11:20,800 --> 02:11:28,000
He said, what happened was that?
There was a drought in the land

2044
02:11:28,900 --> 02:11:36,300
and rather than people stop and
turn back to Jehovah and repent.

2045
02:11:37,600 --> 02:11:43,300
They double down with these
God's from Babylon and the

2046
02:11:43,300 --> 02:11:46,700
Canaanites, and I was like, what
you mean double down?

2047
02:11:46,700 --> 02:11:52,500
He said, well, what they would
do is in a slight drought,

2048
02:11:52,700 --> 02:11:55,500
right?
They would turn a portion of

2049
02:11:55,500 --> 02:11:59,000
their fields back ferrule as an
offering.

2050
02:12:02,100 --> 02:12:05,800
The next year because they
didn't turn back to Jehovah.

2051
02:12:06,900 --> 02:12:15,400
The drought got worse.
So, they invoked Ishtar and

2052
02:12:15,400 --> 02:12:21,200
Ishtar was all about fertility.
Rites So, for anyone out there

2053
02:12:21,200 --> 02:12:23,300
who's listening with little
ears, I'm going to count down

2054
02:12:23,300 --> 02:12:26,800
five seconds for you to either
shut this off or get them out of

2055
02:12:26,800 --> 02:12:34,800
the room, 5, 4, 3 2 1.
It was beige.

2056
02:12:34,800 --> 02:12:39,900
Basically ritualistic orgies,
the Only Rule was you couldn't

2057
02:12:39,900 --> 02:12:45,000
be happier, engaging in sexual
impropriety, with your husband,

2058
02:12:45,000 --> 02:12:50,200
or wife.
It had to be somebody else. and

2059
02:12:50,200 --> 02:12:58,100
that was, Was the thrust of it.
What happens when you have that

2060
02:12:58,100 --> 02:13:02,600
kind of activity?
You have unwanted pregnancies.

2061
02:13:04,400 --> 02:13:12,500
and in a culture that values,
highly Parentage and ancestors

2062
02:13:12,700 --> 02:13:16,700
like Israel did Jenny illogical
lines, right?

2063
02:13:18,200 --> 02:13:21,400
That was a big deal.
Well, fast forward about a year

2064
02:13:21,400 --> 02:13:24,200
later.
And now it's a famine because

2065
02:13:24,200 --> 02:13:28,800
you have turned part of your
Fields Farrell, so you're not

2066
02:13:28,800 --> 02:13:31,800
raising enough food to even get
you through.

2067
02:13:33,100 --> 02:13:38,700
You've fractured the family.
Now, you have these unwanted

2068
02:13:38,700 --> 02:13:44,400
pregnancies and who's there to
take care of that moloch and for

2069
02:13:44,400 --> 02:13:47,100
anyone, if anyone wants to go
Google, this go Google.

2070
02:13:47,100 --> 02:13:50,300
This, the picture of moloch is a
bowl, God.

2071
02:13:51,300 --> 02:13:56,200
And that bold look God.
Has outstretched arms and a hole

2072
02:13:56,200 --> 02:13:59,800
in his stomach.
And they would feed Fire.

2073
02:14:00,900 --> 02:14:05,900
Into the build a fire inside
this hollow idle and then they

2074
02:14:05,900 --> 02:14:09,200
would put infants and toddlers
in the arms and they'd roll in

2075
02:14:10,000 --> 02:14:15,200
and burn to death.
Now at this point, I want to

2076
02:14:15,200 --> 02:14:19,400
throw up.
I'm so disgusted by this but I

2077
02:14:19,500 --> 02:14:24,000
still don't believe.
What this Rabbi is saying that

2078
02:14:24,000 --> 02:14:29,100
we're practicing this today.
And he said we are totally

2079
02:14:29,100 --> 02:14:32,700
practicing this today.
And I'm like, how and he's like,

2080
02:14:33,200 --> 02:14:37,000
what's the big push with
environmentalism turn as much of

2081
02:14:37,000 --> 02:14:41,000
it Back To Nature as possible?
Let's go into the free love

2082
02:14:41,000 --> 02:14:42,700
movement.
If it feels good.

2083
02:14:42,700 --> 02:14:44,400
Do it.
What does that work?

2084
02:14:45,300 --> 02:14:48,300
What does that result in
unwanted pregnancies?

2085
02:14:49,900 --> 02:14:52,300
What does that result in
abortions?

2086
02:14:53,800 --> 02:14:56,300
He's like we're doing everything
the same.

2087
02:14:57,000 --> 02:14:59,700
It's just been repackage for
modern consumption.

2088
02:15:03,100 --> 02:15:08,700
The maybe maybe now you're not
quote giving that ground back to

2089
02:15:08,700 --> 02:15:12,500
the all but maybe you're giving
it back to Gaia right, Mother

2090
02:15:12,500 --> 02:15:17,100
Earth and hopes that she will be
appeased and then we won't have

2091
02:15:17,100 --> 02:15:19,500
droughts or fires or any of
those other things.

2092
02:15:20,400 --> 02:15:22,800
Right?
I mean the climate called that

2093
02:15:22,800 --> 02:15:24,700
it really.
I mean yeah, that is exactly

2094
02:15:24,700 --> 02:15:28,000
what they're saying is.
Yeah this Net Zero or the Earth

2095
02:15:28,000 --> 02:15:30,200
is going to be destroyed and
we're all gone.

2096
02:15:30,600 --> 02:15:33,500
And yeah, definitely their
primary message to is

2097
02:15:33,800 --> 02:15:38,300
depopulation.
Yes, yes, Saudi, population,

2098
02:15:38,900 --> 02:15:41,900
feel if it feels good, do it.
So now you have this whole free

2099
02:15:41,900 --> 02:15:46,500
love kind of movement, right?
And you have men not wanting to

2100
02:15:46,500 --> 02:15:49,000
step up and take responsibility
for what they did.

2101
02:15:49,000 --> 02:15:51,800
You have extramarital?
Affairs ends and unwanted

2102
02:15:51,800 --> 02:15:56,400
pregnancies which leads to
abortion and maybe those priests

2103
02:15:56,400 --> 02:16:01,800
no longer wear Scarlet, robes,
but white lab coats or scrubs.

2104
02:16:02,600 --> 02:16:06,700
And so when he painted me that
picture Justin, I was horrified

2105
02:16:07,400 --> 02:16:12,000
and I went home and I don't
classify them as dreams.

2106
02:16:12,000 --> 02:16:15,500
I've, I classify them as visions
and that's another story will go

2107
02:16:15,500 --> 02:16:19,800
into another time.
But there is no doubt.

2108
02:16:19,800 --> 02:16:23,800
In my mind that today, we are
practicing idolatry.

2109
02:16:24,100 --> 02:16:27,500
We may not call them by their
old names, but make no mistake

2110
02:16:27,500 --> 02:16:29,900
about it.
This is the same worship that

2111
02:16:29,900 --> 02:16:33,799
weakens a nation.
That has made a covenant with

2112
02:16:33,799 --> 02:16:41,799
God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.
And And it's been repackage for

2113
02:16:41,799 --> 02:16:44,600
modern consumption.
And I think when you talk about

2114
02:16:44,600 --> 02:16:48,200
Easter Christmas and I love
Christmas, I'm a Christmas kind

2115
02:16:48,200 --> 02:16:51,900
of guy right now.
We've turned it on its head in

2116
02:16:51,900 --> 02:16:55,200
our home.
We make it very, very, very

2117
02:16:55,200 --> 02:16:58,200
christ-centered to the point
that we've taken on a few of our

2118
02:16:58,200 --> 02:17:01,400
own Traditions to make it more
christ-centered.

2119
02:17:03,900 --> 02:17:07,100
But when in dealing with these
things, if we're not careful,

2120
02:17:07,400 --> 02:17:08,799
right?
Because here's the thing, I

2121
02:17:08,799 --> 02:17:13,100
don't think anybody on that side
that's in the climate called or

2122
02:17:13,700 --> 02:17:16,500
practicing abortion or the free
love thing.

2123
02:17:16,700 --> 02:17:19,100
I don't think any of them, maybe
a few of them.

2124
02:17:19,400 --> 02:17:22,200
There's a few, I might say, but
I don't think many of them went

2125
02:17:22,200 --> 02:17:25,100
in there going.
Oh, I'm gonna go worship ball

2126
02:17:25,100 --> 02:17:27,900
and then Ishtar and then moloch,
I don't think that's how it

2127
02:17:27,900 --> 02:17:30,100
works.
So if they can fall in that

2128
02:17:30,100 --> 02:17:33,299
trap, I don't think we should be
too blind into arrogant, say

2129
02:17:33,299 --> 02:17:35,000
that.
We couldn't fall into that trap

2130
02:17:35,000 --> 02:17:38,700
as well, and I think that's why
this this needs some attention

2131
02:17:38,700 --> 02:17:42,299
here, right?
Is if you if we're going to

2132
02:17:42,299 --> 02:17:46,700
celebrate this, Meaning the the
resurrection in the atonement of

2133
02:17:46,700 --> 02:17:51,799
our savior, we need to take it
back and we need to be forceful

2134
02:17:51,799 --> 02:17:55,000
about how we do it within the
walls of our own home and make

2135
02:17:55,000 --> 02:17:57,700
sure that we instill that into
our children.

2136
02:18:00,000 --> 02:18:03,100
Well said, well said, I agree,
wholeheartedly?

2137
02:18:03,100 --> 02:18:05,799
You know, I grew up with these
traditions and like I said, I've

2138
02:18:05,799 --> 02:18:13,000
got fond memories of them, is as
activities as special days, but

2139
02:18:14,799 --> 02:18:18,700
personally, I think, I don't
think it you're a bad person

2140
02:18:18,700 --> 02:18:23,400
just because you are
participating in the culture.

2141
02:18:23,400 --> 02:18:26,000
I mean, that's, that's why,
that's why they're subverting

2142
02:18:26,000 --> 02:18:31,200
the culture.
Yeah, but it might make you, you

2143
02:18:31,200 --> 02:18:34,600
might be a little, but you might
be ignorant of some things.

2144
02:18:34,600 --> 02:18:38,799
And again, that doesn't
necessarily mean that you're

2145
02:18:38,799 --> 02:18:46,200
doing something wrong.
But why, why settle for a pagan

2146
02:18:46,200 --> 02:18:50,100
holiday when we have Christ's
atonement and Resurrection to be

2147
02:18:50,100 --> 02:18:52,299
celebrating, right?
Right.

2148
02:18:52,299 --> 02:18:55,900
That's, that's exactly right.
And here's the other thing,

2149
02:18:55,900 --> 02:18:58,600
right?
And This is from the book of

2150
02:18:58,608 --> 02:19:00,299
Dave.
I'm not saying that this is,

2151
02:19:00,799 --> 02:19:06,799
This is Gospel at all, but if,
if, if our father in Heaven, had

2152
02:19:06,799 --> 02:19:10,000
certain angels that were
captains of things right in

2153
02:19:10,000 --> 02:19:14,000
think it Gabriel.
You can think of Raphael, you

2154
02:19:14,000 --> 02:19:17,100
can think of, you know, any of
those other Angels.

2155
02:19:17,100 --> 02:19:19,900
What makes you think that the
the adversary wouldn't have his

2156
02:19:19,900 --> 02:19:22,700
own?
And I find it interesting that

2157
02:19:22,700 --> 02:19:26,400
about the same time that Easter
is around where one of the

2158
02:19:26,400 --> 02:19:29,000
practices here we go.
We're going to go for two

2159
02:19:29,000 --> 02:19:37,200
strikes on one episode a week.
In the celebration of a goddess

2160
02:19:37,299 --> 02:19:43,100
whose priests would churn from
men to women and women to men.

2161
02:19:43,600 --> 02:19:47,500
We now have just instituted the
day of visibility for the trans

2162
02:19:47,500 --> 02:19:52,200
community.
Those gods are still at work,

2163
02:19:52,700 --> 02:19:58,300
and we need to be very Vigilant
to make sure that we, we are not

2164
02:19:58,300 --> 02:20:02,800
participating.
We don't have to be, we don't

2165
02:20:02,800 --> 02:20:07,900
have to be overbearing about it.
We just have to be deliberate.

2166
02:20:08,200 --> 02:20:11,000
And when we decide to be
deliberate, there's a lot of

2167
02:20:11,000 --> 02:20:15,100
things we can take and
reincorporate, and I'm all for

2168
02:20:15,100 --> 02:20:18,200
using, look, the children of
Israel.

2169
02:20:18,400 --> 02:20:19,900
They used.
Old.

2170
02:20:20,500 --> 02:20:27,600
That was out of Egypt to create
the Ark of the Covenant, as well

2171
02:20:28,000 --> 02:20:33,200
as the golden calf.
So we can take those things and

2172
02:20:33,200 --> 02:20:37,300
repurpose them.
And make them in consecrate them

2173
02:20:37,300 --> 02:20:39,800
and make them Gods.
But that means that we as

2174
02:20:39,800 --> 02:20:43,300
parents have to be deliberate
and doing it.

2175
02:20:46,200 --> 02:20:51,000
Amen.
I couldn't agree more and, you

2176
02:20:51,000 --> 02:20:55,000
know, I mean, even in my own
family II do have some positive

2177
02:20:55,000 --> 02:20:58,300
memories around about Christmas
and it kind of Christmas feel

2178
02:20:58,300 --> 02:21:01,400
and that cultures there.
It doesn't seem to be actually,

2179
02:21:01,700 --> 02:21:02,900
it doesn't seem to be there
anymore.

2180
02:21:02,900 --> 02:21:04,100
I don't know what.
I don't know what's happened to

2181
02:21:04,100 --> 02:21:06,200
Christmas these days.
It's not like it was when I was

2182
02:21:06,200 --> 02:21:11,800
a kid, I used to be so much more
commercialized, but I do still

2183
02:21:11,800 --> 02:21:16,900
have these positive memories of
the Christmas season and I

2184
02:21:16,900 --> 02:21:20,200
remember, a couple years ago, I
kind of decided that, you know,

2185
02:21:20,200 --> 02:21:24,700
I don't want to take that away,
but I also don't want Santa

2186
02:21:24,700 --> 02:21:29,500
Claus and this kind of stuff to
be the Focus, right, right.

2187
02:21:30,100 --> 02:21:33,300
So what I ended up doing is I
and I felt like this was.

2188
02:21:33,300 --> 02:21:34,300
All right.
Well first of all, I do

2189
02:21:34,300 --> 02:21:37,900
personally I don't like telling
my kids that, you know, this is

2190
02:21:37,900 --> 02:21:41,000
that there's some imaginary, you
know, guy running around with

2191
02:21:41,000 --> 02:21:44,000
presents and stuff.
So, I mean, I just I'm up front,

2192
02:21:44,300 --> 02:21:45,800
right?
Kind of thing, myself.

2193
02:21:46,000 --> 02:21:49,600
And that's how we do things in
my family, but we still

2194
02:21:49,600 --> 02:21:52,500
celebrated Christmas in a more
traditional cultural kind of

2195
02:21:52,500 --> 02:21:55,100
way.
And it's kind of hard men to try

2196
02:21:55,100 --> 02:21:58,000
to take that away from the kids
when that's kind of becomes an

2197
02:21:58,000 --> 02:22:02,100
expectation, right?
And so what I ended up doing was

2198
02:22:03,300 --> 02:22:05,800
right out right after Christmas,
you've got three kings day.

2199
02:22:06,300 --> 02:22:10,600
Yeah, and that's more of a
Catholic tradition and that's

2200
02:22:10,600 --> 02:22:14,900
not something that I'd ever
celebrated and I thought, wow,

2201
02:22:15,000 --> 02:22:18,800
well you've got Not fertile,
ground here.

2202
02:22:18,800 --> 02:22:23,200
It's a great concept and I can
make anything I want out of this

2203
02:22:23,500 --> 02:22:28,600
because well because I'm not
Catholic and there's no no

2204
02:22:28,600 --> 02:22:31,300
there's no expectation and my
family built around it.

2205
02:22:31,300 --> 02:22:36,500
So we ended up doing this
really, really cool countdown

2206
02:22:36,500 --> 02:22:43,300
from Christmas to the to the
Three Kings Day to Ascension and

2207
02:22:43,700 --> 02:22:46,700
it was actually really powerful.
We just took Every single day.

2208
02:22:46,700 --> 02:22:49,900
We had some special little thing
that evening like a mini family

2209
02:22:49,900 --> 02:22:54,300
home evening talking about
Christ, Leah up to that.

2210
02:22:54,300 --> 02:22:56,900
And, and, and, you know, it's
kind of funny because in the

2211
02:22:56,900 --> 02:23:01,800
restoration, you know, we know
that Christ wasn't born on

2212
02:23:02,300 --> 02:23:04,900
Christmas Eve.
No, no, no.

2213
02:23:05,000 --> 02:23:11,100
He wasn't.
We don't need to I guess we

2214
02:23:11,100 --> 02:23:15,200
don't need to hold on to that
specific date for that purpose.

2215
02:23:15,200 --> 02:23:17,900
I don't think know.
I was like, you know what, I'm

2216
02:23:17,900 --> 02:23:23,100
good with keeping Christmas as
my my memories of a traditional

2217
02:23:23,100 --> 02:23:26,500
American Christmas.
But I want to counter that a

2218
02:23:26,500 --> 02:23:29,700
counter balance, that with
something new, something

2219
02:23:29,700 --> 02:23:34,200
different that can be a lot more
focused and intense done on

2220
02:23:34,200 --> 02:23:36,500
Christ.
And I think, you know, honestly,

2221
02:23:36,500 --> 02:23:39,500
I this year we are Yeah, I kind
of did something kind of

2222
02:23:39,508 --> 02:23:42,500
similar, we basically
celebrated, the traditional

2223
02:23:42,500 --> 02:23:46,800
cultural Easter a week ago.
Yeah.

2224
02:23:47,100 --> 02:23:54,100
Because because come Sunday,
it's really, it's Christ's

2225
02:23:54,100 --> 02:23:55,600
resurrection.
And it's atonement day.

2226
02:23:55,600 --> 02:23:59,500
It's yeah, it's not Yom Kippur
that's that's in the fall but I

2227
02:23:59,500 --> 02:24:02,400
really is it's the Christian Yom
Kippur right?

2228
02:24:02,400 --> 02:24:07,900
And and so we're not doing
Easter Bunny and eggs and stuff

2229
02:24:07,900 --> 02:24:12,000
like that.
On on this coming Sunday.

2230
02:24:12,400 --> 02:24:17,200
Yeah, you know we did have a
semblance of it before but it

2231
02:24:17,200 --> 02:24:19,400
was also, you know, I'm obscure
with my kids.

2232
02:24:19,400 --> 02:24:23,300
You know, we're doing this as a
cultural activity.

2233
02:24:23,300 --> 02:24:25,200
There's nothing symbolic here.
This isn't.

2234
02:24:25,200 --> 02:24:30,100
We're not worshiping false gods.
We're playing fun games because

2235
02:24:30,100 --> 02:24:33,500
it's springtime and it's fun to
play eggs.

2236
02:24:33,500 --> 02:24:35,800
I've got a bunch of chickens now
and they're producing like two

2237
02:24:35,800 --> 02:24:38,400
dozen eggs a day and how do you
eat that many eggs?

2238
02:24:38,500 --> 02:24:40,200
Eggs.
Yeah, I gotta do something with

2239
02:24:40,200 --> 02:24:42,700
them right.
Right.

2240
02:24:42,900 --> 02:24:44,900
No.
And I think it's important to

2241
02:24:44,900 --> 02:24:48,100
know that this is going to look
different from family to family

2242
02:24:48,200 --> 02:24:52,700
and that's okay, right?
But I guess I guess, my main

2243
02:24:52,700 --> 02:24:58,700
thrust is take it back repurpose
it, consecrate it, and use it to

2244
02:24:58,708 --> 02:25:02,900
the glory of God in some way.
Period.

2245
02:25:03,000 --> 02:25:06,100
However, you do that then that's
between you and God and your

2246
02:25:06,100 --> 02:25:10,100
family.
But anyway, Dude, this was a

2247
02:25:10,108 --> 02:25:13,400
great talk.
Yeah, I love it brother.

2248
02:25:14,700 --> 02:25:17,200
All right well is there anything
else you want to add before you

2249
02:25:17,200 --> 02:25:25,900
wrapped up?
um, I think we covered a lot of

2250
02:25:25,900 --> 02:25:27,300
ground.
We did.

2251
02:25:27,300 --> 02:25:29,000
It was a it was a good
conversation.

2252
02:25:29,000 --> 02:25:31,400
Justin.
I frankly think I could probably

2253
02:25:31,400 --> 02:25:34,800
can go and dig back into the
Dome and stuff for a while.

2254
02:25:34,800 --> 02:25:38,500
But, you know, frankly I need to
probably get some rest.

2255
02:25:38,500 --> 02:25:41,000
Shouldn't stay up all night
doing, right, cast?

2256
02:25:41,400 --> 02:25:42,100
Yeah.
Yeah.

2257
02:25:42,100 --> 02:25:45,200
No.
We both have families and jobs.

2258
02:25:45,200 --> 02:25:47,100
We got to do.
So dude.

2259
02:25:47,100 --> 02:25:50,600
Let's do it again before long.
All right.

2260
02:25:51,100 --> 02:25:53,200
Awesome.
Alright, bye everybody.

2261
02:26:17,000 --> 02:26:19,800
You're listening to the Mormon
Renegade podcast.