Episode #55: The Infiltration of Our Churches, Schools, & Institutions W/Julie Behling Part 2

0:05 Welcome back to part 2 of my conversation with Julie be dealing in this episode, Julie. And I go deep into the roots of Communism. We talked about the ideology, the practice and the failed Promises of Communism. We then take a deeper dive into the infiltration of Communism into America. After that, we talk about the war in Ukraine and break down and look at the roots of the conflict. Finally, we wrap up by discussing what we as Americans can do to stop them. March of Communism in America now because I have to be very careful about what gets posted on YouTube. If you head over to rumble to the Mormon Renegade podcast Channel, you'll find a complete uncut version of me, and Julie's conversation. That's next on this episode of the Mormon Renegade podcast. So I want to take just a few moments here and just say, thank you for listening.

0:55 I can never tell you how much it means to me that you spend your time here with me. Now, on top of that. Last year, I received donations, that help me upgrade the audio equipment and software. This year, I want to do the same thing for video. Now, if you want to help out and make a donation, you can do that by going to Mormon Renegade.com, and making a donation. They're also check out the Mormon Renegade, supply store at Mormon, Renegade.com, and pick up some merch. Now, if you can't do Any of those I completely understand. It's not like it's been a banner year necessarily for our finances so maybe just keep the podcast in your prayers. Finally, as I've started to do more video, there's a YouTube channel up for the podcast but just between you and me. Yeah, I'm gonna be there very long. So I have a feeling on my kicked off. So to stay one step ahead of that. I've made a channel on Rumble, so head on over to rumble, look up the Mormon Renegade podcast Channel there and Crush that like And subscribe button.

1:50 Thank you. I've been very careful on this podcast to only advertise for items that I feel will add value and purpose in your life. That said, I've discovered a book that I really believe should be in every Mormons Library. The book is called beneath sheep's clothing. In this book, the author Julie be Ling breaks down the Communist infiltration into our schools institutions and perhaps even most distressing our Church's, the book backs up its claims with well cited sources. So you can go do the research yourself, this book will allow you to see the The Communist tactics and gives you the tools on how to combat this Insidious movement in America Julia's, right now, trying to raise money to make the book into a documentary and I can't recommend donating to this cause strongly enough. So head over to Mormon Renegade.com and you can find the link to buy the book and donate to the documentary in this episode page or scroll down to the very bottom of the landing page at Mormon, Renegade.com, to find a link to buy the book.

3:09 You're listening to the Mormon Renegade podcast. So Julie, first again, thanks for coming back on my pleasure, Julie. First off, thanks for writing that book. That is not that must not have been an easy book to write. What about what was the most challenging part of it? For you? Definitely the most challenging part? I mean, all of it had its challenges, but the most challenging part was the ending finish. Well, not the ending of the book with the what I did last, which was exactly a year ago when I was catching up the marks. First incursion into our education and our culture in America to our modern day. And there's just so many different rabbit holes and I had to make sure that I was being thorough without going too far down any rabbit holes and getting lost and also just realizing how far gone things are and where that a very late stage right now much later than what I wrote most of my book in 2010-2011 like where we're at now. It's just you know, exponential.

4:18 I think we talked about that last time. And so to try to do justice, to what's happened to our education, and the origins of that, that was probably the hardest part. I got. You know, I would it's tough to look at that stuff because as you look at it, despite how hard we try it seeps in and in you know, not to the point of turning you to that. But I'm a big believer in what you look at a lot of times will will somehow find its way into your soul. And, and it takes us and especially courageous person to be able to look at the ugly stuff, call it out by name and then and then kind of bear those consequences a little bit.

5:12 We talked last time and you had you had went on your mission to Russia and that's where where you kind of get your first idea of what communism was versus versus what it was portrayed. As I want to go back to that early days of communism a little bit because sometimes we can't figure out where we are without seeing where we've been or what the what the Genesis of the story is so to speak. For those who haven't read Marx, who haven't, you know, whether that was The Communist Manifesto or Das kapital or any of those other books that that he had wrote? Is is the spread of Communism really essential to Marx's ideas.

6:10 Because I think people have this idea that that communism is something that that country is trying to do and it doesn't necessarily affect us, but I don't think that's the case. Am I wrong on that? Um, I don't know that I can answer that question. I mean, the way that I see Marxism it's the Playbook to achieve communism. Okay. It's the it's the Playbook to that that marks delineate adhan to to pit groups of people against Powers but pit oppressed people sometimes legitimately so sometimes maybe not as legitimately pit. The oppressed people, the masses against the power structures to tear down the power structures and then call me.

6:53 Them communist government can come in and and fill in the void. That's kind of how I understand it. Okay. Because I was always under the understanding that in order for for communism to do what it wants to do, it has to have kind of a global Revolution, right? Oh yeah, for sure. And I guess that's where I was getting at. It's not enough for just You know, soviet-era Russia to becoming a store or China to become. Yes. What what is it in that thought process? That makes it makes it intrinsic that this idea of Communism spread well it's a me communism is like the inversion of Christianity of true Christianity and just as Christianity, which is to spread. But it does though through free will, at least true Christianity uses free will.

7:50 To proselytize, communism uses, force, and violence to, to spread its evil message. It's just an improvement in version of Christianity, and it's pretty apparent to me after studying communism and seeing what it does that it is inspired by not by God. That's for sure, inspired by Satan, if you wanted me to be direct about it, no II appreciate that. Because, just a couple months ago, I got done reading a book called The Devil and Karl Marx, mmm, which, which was a deep dive on on what what Marx is beliefs Works, whether you're religious or not or whether you consider yourself religious or not.

8:37 I think everybody somewhat religious, right? Yeah, it just depends on what you're going to. To fixate that on. Are you going to fix that fixate on God or you going to fixate on something else. Anyway, in this book, he talks about like, marks his favorite play was the Faust about when Faust sells his soul, to the devil and mom. The other thing I didn't know about Marx, was that he was also a playwright and He basically, like took the the Faustian bargain to another level in, in his, all this plays, not in his poetry, it's fascinating book, but it doesn't surprise me. I mean, you clearly see, you know, the whole scripture by their fruits, you shall know them. I mean, the fruits of Marxism is death and destruction, enslavement of humanity.

9:34 So yeah. Great. Well yeah. So when do the, when do the Communist really take over Russia? When did they take over Russia? Yep. Well I mean the whole Russian Revolution all of that 1917 is when it began there was, I'm not 100% sure on my dates but there was a period of years where It was the Reds versus the whites, the why it was the Blue Jean de. The people who had supported as are the people with money and in the aristocracy and the Reds were the the Marxist, the Communists. And, you know, there was Warfare in the countryside and that was over a period of years. My foot, my area of main area of focus was post World War Two with Soviet history so I'm sorry I can't give you exact dates on. It did take some time but you know the Russian populace was really highly vulnerable to Communism. They had just been I mean Russia just a couple decades of a few decades before communism came in. It had been a nation with serfdom over 80% of the population were serves, which is really not much more than Slaves.

10:53 Just maybe like one little tiny bit above the life of a slave. And so, these are people that were mostly illiterate. They were people who were not used to Freedom. The freedom was not really even a concept that they could comprehend. They were used to a very poor standard of living kind of to give you an idea of the disparity between like it because our and the aristocracy and the server, or the end, the peasants, The Peasants, the average. A peasant would live in a hut and their livestock would live in there with them during the winter and there's like a stove in the middle of the Hut, and it's just filled. It's just filthy, you know, there was very little health care for the peasants and the serfs very little schooling. They had to till the land of the landowners and give most of what they grew to the landowner, and they got to, you know, till a little bit of the land for Themselves. It was very dysfunctional.

11:54 Society, very oppressive. These were not people who were prepared to embrace Freedom, no concept of that. So, to take over Russia and then just make all these big promises over we're going to, you know, give bread and land to all that was one of the slogans of the Communists. So it sounded good and you know, really easy to get a lot of people to go along with it and then get them to turn against the power structures. And it was not the most difficult Nation to subvert to Communism, I guess is what I'm coming at, you know. And I think you, you make a very valid point in that. Because look, if you would have dropped, you know, communism. And when I say that, I mean without the mask, right? Just someone coming out in 1950s, America and saying, you know, hey, we're communist, it wouldn't have took, right? Cuz we had seen the fruits of other things of capitalism of freedom of free, markets of all those things. A people has to be prepared to give up its freedom. This isn't something that just happens overnight, he's missing. It's a conditioning process, right? Absolutely.

13:10 That's one of the things that I point out in my book, the similarities between how communism took over the culture in Russia was pretty relatively simple, and easy versus Erica will we had to be subverted over many decades and dumbs down and weekend and, you know, quite a bit of a difference between the average American in the 20th century and their standard of living and their expectation of Freedom versus Russian peasants in the beginning of the 20th century and it's night and day so it's in the same. But you know what, what marks laid out with Marxism, as you know, I'm sure if there's you studied, I'm sure to some degree.

13:50 There was different iterations of Marxism than the cultural marxists came out and like the 1920s 30s and they realized that the West was not going to fall to Communism. Like they had hoped and they had to tweak things. And what they how they tweaked it was, okay, we need to infiltrate the institutions of culture. We need to infiltrate education, but legal institutions, the church, the family, and the media. We need to infiltrate the As institutions, so that we can start promoting communism, socialism certain socialism, communism is just the forceful implementation of socialism, the Communists mostly call themselves socialists.

14:35 His name. But the cold to Mark, says, set out to infiltrate institutions, there's ample evidence that they were highly successful all throughout the west and then we had the, the neo-marxists from the Frankfurt School. A few decades later coming out with, you know, starting with critical theory which morphed into then critical race Theory and any number of other critical theories, which takes the marks marks as comp concept of oppressed versus a Presser Sir, which, which marks it was, the peasant, the proletariat versus the blue, or the upper class. And now, you, can you pick any? You just locate a group of people within a nation that are oppressed or who feel oppressed or who can be made to feel oppressed, tell them keep telling them how impressed they are Stoke, their anger to get them to tear down the power structure with critical race Theory.

15:24 It's people of color versus white whiteness white supremacy. Critical queer Theory and gender Theory. It's You know, the lgbtq whatever non-binary people versus people who are heteronormative cisgender. That's normal heterosexual people there that enemy now to tear that system down in order to destroy the, binary, genders, and the family essentially. And so, they retooled Marxism to Prey Upon the weakness of Americans with, for sure our Legacy of Oppression of People of color and slavery was probably our easiest point, you know, to exploit and they also were exploiting the compassion of Americans who don't like to feel like they're oppressing anyone.

16:17 So now it's easy for that for this culture, the system that they're implementing to make, try to make Americans feel guilty for. So if, you know, we have to do the gender affirming care for children because we don't want children to commit suicide. Aside, you know, they exploit The Compassion of Americans and that way, but we have to understand what's going on here. And for sure, we need to be compassionate, but we have to be wise as serpents as well. Yeah. And I think you, you hit in describing you know this the critical theory of Marxism, Neo Marxism, right, What I find interesting is that it cannot work. Unless there is an oppressed versus an oppressor, whether it's true or not, right?

17:05 And, and marks is very clear on this that there has to be conflict, right? And it's out of this conflict that this new Society will will emerge From the Ashes. In fact, if I'm not mistaken marks once wrote a poem in which he said, you know, I will strike I'd like a Creator through the destruction in which my ideas have have created. So, he was very aware of this idea of of struggle of conflict. Conflict was just at the center of how you got things done, which really raised a lot of red flags for me.

17:53 And this is the part where I fully intend that. I'll Another strike on YouTube, but that's all right. When you looked at broke black lives matter ink right, the actual organization, there was no doubt that that thing had it seeds. Sown within within that Marxist ideal, it took me a while to figure out how closely it was, right? But if you just read that first part in there about class struggle about racial struggle, it became very apparent and then it even went so far as to say you know, we We really push against this idea of the nuclear family and that it takes a society to raise good children.

18:33 Right? Because the family is oppressive, right? Right. Yep. And then it was a couple months later. When I figured out the woman that actually started the organization, she confessed, she was a trained Marxist. Yep. And so in that you see all The Tell-Tale signs Of this, this, this conflict ideology. I don't know how else to explain it. I is just this ideology of conflict. It's led me to wonder though. How does it operate once it gets past that point, right? Because if you always have to have the oppressor versus the oppressed kind of mentality, how do you, how does that make for a functioning Society without constant Bloodshed and blood running in the streets? Well, I mean, you saw we saw Stalin if you look at Soviet history when Stalin was in power, especially during the purges in the 30s, it, they Stalin took that to a very far point where they were arresting just random people. They were arresting people on false charges as enemies of the state.

19:43 And it was a he was very paranoid and Stalin was the cause of the massacre of, you know, millions of people the torture the Imprisonment, execution. And many of these people were actually members of the Communist Party who were True Believers in the system and they just, it was just this absolute bloodbath. And is for sure, the ugliest era of Soviet history, because he took it to that length of making enemies and to people who were not enemies of that system. And I think now took it pretty far, it's the purging purges of it. Society, that is a normal feature of Communists and communist Nation because of that constant struggle, right?

20:31 And it's interesting when you when you just compare the two the two theories. Like if you look at what what classical liberal principles were? And when I say that, I mean like George Washington and Thomas Jefferson, kind of classic liberalism There was this idea that it didn't matter what your race was. You know, I understand that the founder struggled with slavery, but I think an honest assessment and history will show. It was a struggle. It wasn't something that that all of them were necessarily for. Absolutely. But you, you get this sense that they're looking towards something where everyone's going to identify as American regardless of.

21:20 Of their, their nationality, their race. Whatever the case is, so you had one system that was was about Unity, right? It was it was revolutionary in its idea because it was through this idea of kind of rugged individualism that we could all come together as a community which seems counterintuitive on the surface but it worked really well for a long time and then you what's Free Will as a centerpiece of that. Yes. Absolutely. The hinge point, if you will, which everything else rested on and then you had communism, which was kind of Unity by force.

22:00 Right. You'll agree with us or we'll send you to a gulag or you know, absolutely something like that. So did you ever study anything about Chinese Marxism because that's where we're or Chinese communism? Because that's really where. Where the next big revolution happened right outside. Outside of Russia, I have not studied it in depth. I've studied it, I am learning about it as I go and it's there's definitely episodes of maoism, you know, in the cultural revolution in China that are just as shocking and horrific as what happened in the Soviet Union. Now definitely was inspired by Stalin and you know it's something that I am interested in learning more about but I can't speak definitively on that as I can on the Soviet. So Get history.

22:50 Sure. No, that's that's just fine, especially, especially once again, my area of focus was Christians and the Soviet Union were specifically, right? What is it about? What is it about the idea of God that Communists and communism found so abhorrent that they couldn't let it stand because they want the state to be God. And so there can be no other God other than the communist state, the Socialist State. That's wherever all the people have to look to the state as their protector as their provider. And the rule Giver there can be no other God before the state. Right.

23:33 That that in itself is a massive hinge point for communism. If you listen to what the founders said, they were very clear that the rights that we possess because we simply exist as people weren't granted by men, they were granted by God and then they were wise enough to say, someday there's going to be people who don't believe in God. So, you know, will say nature or Nature's God or something along those lines. But but but their major hinge point was If rights are a man-made construct, then man can take them away. But if they're given from God, They're not man's to meddled. And when you look at what what Russia was doing or communism, I should say it was, it was trying to serve plant God in every way because if God is the author of those, they can never be touched.

24:44 But if it's not, then you have Car Blanc to do whatever you need to, to remake Society. To something that you feel is better. Yep, one thing that I want to just that came to mind that I want to point out. We, in recent decades, in America have gotten really complacent and like cam, you know, once the Soviet Union fell and it's like, okay, oh, great communism is just going to be, you know, it's just going to be relegated to the Dustbin of history. But if you look at like the mid 80s, we had a third of the world was under a communist regime. A third of the population of the world lived under a Communist Regime, and we still do have quite a big chunk.

25:26 Now, China has, you know, they made some economic changes to the system to kind of meld. It's like a building between fascism and communism now, but communism is, it's here, it's alive and well in the world. And again, I think more of the, the from what I've read and researched, it's the model of the melding with the She doesn't like what China has is more of what the powers that be have in mind for the world. Do it's not going to hold, just like what happened in the Soviet Union more? Like what modern day China is? I was going to say, didn't he didn't China? Even give it a cute name like State capitalism or something like that and made it sound. I think that was something that they coined early on was was this idea of?

26:12 No, no, we're not Communists. A more, we're State capitalist, right? You know, we're highly. We're an extremely planned economy but you know, we deal with capitalist principles on the on the national level. I thought it was kind of laughable, but when, when do we first start seeing Communist really begin to infiltrate the United States. Well, from, from my research, it was really early 20th century. Pretty, pretty early on in the 20th century, even even in some cases before or at the same time of the Russian Revolution, because we had our super wealthy, super Elite here that they started funding different Communists to infiltrate organizations the churches The Rockefellers foundation and Carnegie those types, and they got control of every every institution and not all of it was infiltrated with Communism necessarily, but they were there. They were infiltrating the churches with Communism very early on from the 1920s, at least. And as far as education goes, I did an interview. I don't know if you know who Alex Newman is, he's, he's excellent.

27:38 He has He's a reporter for the epoch times or a contributor to the epoch times and also has his podcast a liberty Sentinel. And anyways, I interviewed him a couple months ago for my documentary, which is based on the content in my book, beneath sheep's clothing and he gave, I asked him to give a history of Communism in education, America, and he even took it. I learned some new things and so that's going to be a really crucial part of my documentary. But he goes so far as to say that the very origins of public education in America. Erica were Communists in nature that there was communism, right? If they from the get-go, with the individuals who instituted public education in America and it's definitely hard to hear, but sounds like that's the case. The Rockefellers Carnegie's were very, very involved in taking over education, at one point, I believe it was the 20s. Perhaps the 30s, they were actually paying they were actually paying more money to education in America than the government was, they had bought out the system and you read, let me see if I can find this quote really quickly. I can find this quote from, I mean, this quote, it's just This is from.

29:03 Second, okay, from the Rockefellers, general education board mission statement from the year 1913. And this is in my, I have in my book, this is a quote in our dreams, we have Limitless resources, and people yield themselves. With perfect disability, to our molding hand, the present education conventions fade from their minds and unhampered by tradition. We work, our own will Upon A grateful and responsive rural folk. We shall not try to make these people or any of their children. Children into philosophers or men of learning or men of science. We have not to raise up from them author or Educators poets. Men of letters we shall not search for embryo. Great artists painters, musicians, nor will we cherish even the humbler ambition to raise up from them.

29:49 Among from, from among them lawyers. Doctors preachers politicians. Statesmen of whom we now have ample Supply, Basically, the mission statement of the Rockefeller, general education board was to keep the people subjugated to the power structure that was already in place and to mold them according to their own well. So and then the Rockefellers funded various individuals do we, for example, and they were educated in Prussia and they became educated and socialism many of these individuals that started the different schools of Education in the universities Across America. They were highly disenchanted with Christianity and had embraced socialism and also had embraced The board is, is remember the word, but the rat in the cage where the rat pushes a button and gets a palette that will cold happens. When dog kind of response.

30:54 Yeah, they Embrace that scientific method to implement into the schools to basically to see the school children as animals with animalistic Minds that was stimulus. Response is what when it is and to train them up. Using that stimulus response to make them into cogs for the machine that they themselves manage and run not to not to teach children to embrace their, their own unique, talents and gifts and to reach for the stars but to be subjugated and as we go even further we go into like the 1950s, there's different experiments done. There was an experiment done in some in Our city schools amongst African-American children where they and this was Mark, definitely a communist.

31:48 They they put different things into the reading curriculum that was involving like acts of Terror and like setting things on fire and I think, you know, not promoting it necessarily but like, teaching children to read using stories of oh, setting setting the house on fire and oh doing this and and also mocking Christianity and some of these Is and there are other experiment the other things that they did to dumb down, America's kids with taking away, phonics from the reading curricula, in many cases, and just changing things as they want and then it reached even more will just fast forward and obviously glossing over a lot. But now we're let's get to like the late 70s and then we have Charlotte.

32:37 Is there be? Are you familiar with who she is? No. She, she was appointed by Ronald, Reagan in his first term to, to the Department of Education and Reagan had intended to disband, the Department of Education. And so she was called in to be one of the people to help prepare it to be done away with. And she was she she was alive up until she didn't die that long ago. There's a lot of interviews and she wrote several books, she got into that position in 1980 and then she had access to all of the files and the papers and she said, what, what she realized was happening with education in America and the world was horrifying to her, that their goal was to set up a computerized One World curriculum, that was designed to Determine the world and America, and the world into a gigantic fascist communist state and to brainwash the kids and to make sure they don't develop critical thinking and just prepare them for that system. But it's coming.

33:47 And she said, Bill Gates was involved. All right, way back. Then in the late 70s with, with helping set that up, way back in the 70s, Bill Gates was involved in this, Yeah. She said as yeah as at least by 1979 yeah that he was involved in. See here's where me years to wrap my mind around this because you're right as you start looking at communism with in America you start seeing people that on the surface you would think well, that makes no sense why they would would go that way, right? Rockefeller Carnegie get later Bill Gates. These are guys who made their money. Money in this capitalistic system, right? And so you would think that that by Nature, they would have court anything that would have compromised that, but what I don't, they don't, they don't want other people to be able to rise up to their level.

34:44 And right, they already have the money, they already. They already have that wealth. And now it's just the power that needs to be maintained right? And, and And I guess until you truly understand what communism does not what it says it's going to do, but what it does it doesn't redistribute wealth evenly and equitably across the board. There's always those that have The money, the power, right? And when, once you begin to understand that, okay, they have a vested interest in which their money, and their power may not necessarily be as vulnerable if it's within this this communist this fascist fascistic system because they would be, they would be the head. So to speak of the new Pro American proletariat right where they get to.

35:40 Be on top, still always and forever. Yeah, it's a system is a control grid to keep the masses down and to maintain power and yeah so it's this very bizarre amalgam between monopolistic capitalism fascism and communism. If, you know, three very corrosive and systems and yeah, we don't want that. I don't want that. You keep saying something that fascinates me. And that is you keep bumping fascism in with Communism which I agree with. But if you listen to academics, they'll say well no fascism and communism.

36:23 Those are completely different things, you know, fascist and communist, don't get along. I mean, Germany was fascist and the Communists fought against Germany in World War Two. Explain to, to me and to the listeners, how it is. Those two are more closely related than they are Polar Opposites. Because I think that's something that's super important to realize and I'll explain when you're done, why I think that is. Well, I don't consider myself an expert on fascism, but the way I understand it, I mean is that governments run the businesses and they don't necessarily so in a true communist.

37:06 Scenario like the Soviet Union, you didn't have big business, you just had everything. All the industry managed by the government and as far as I understand, it a fascist system, there are different businesses. But the government has control is very much embedded with them and the businesses are not allowed to just do whatever they want. The government has a say in that. I mean, yeah, it's not really opposite. It's just, it's just a Different Twist on things, and And then you add the monopolistic capitalism. You know, we have our Amazon and our apple and, you know, our Walmart and these various Mega companies and They're making the big bucks to small. Businesses are getting the short end of the stick and that probably is likely to get worse.

37:56 As time goes here in America. The government's not going to take over Apple in terms of like Get doing away with the logo and the name of it. But to have, you know, these Partnerships with Facebook with Twitter, they definitely are doing that and it's just, it looks like the powers that be are just using whatever systems work for. Amassing the most power and wealth at the top and keeping the rest of the population under control. Yeah. I tore up. I'm I think I've told you this before. I've told everybody else on the podcast. I'm a surveyor by profession. And one summer I tore my knee up. Good tore the ACL.

38:39 It was like a full six-month recovery and I remember I was just getting bored. I'd done just as bad as much office work as I could do to catch up and the guy worked for he was like well you want to go to school, you want pick up some more classes and I'm like, yeah, that sounds fun. He's like, tell you what, I'll pay for half your half of whatever you want to take. Well, I already have a degree in land surveying. So now I'm going to take courses that are fun and and I'm going to divulge just what kind of nerd. I am I totally went for political science, right? And went towards towards that towards world, government in and constitutional studies.

39:22 And so, I just took a hodgepodge of classes. And when I was studying, Ying World Government. The thing that jumped out to me is how ambiguous some of our political terms are. Right? When one, we talked, about right left in America, for the most part, it's still kind of within, you know, and I'm saying, the average person, right? It's still within that kind of 19 or 1776, kind of mindset, right? Right left. On that Spectrum, when you talk about right left in Europe, you're talking about fascism and communism, right? And so, we use that term, right?

40:09 And left. And it doesn't mean the same thing as it means in Europe, right? So if you were to look at like a whole scale that was nothing but freedom and you know, the the right side is like complete Freedom, almost Anarchy, you know, libertarianism You know, America bump back to about here, but then if you go to the left side of that Spectrum, you have communism on the complete end or monarchy and then you have just a few steps down fascism. So, it's that an ambiguity of terms that I think really confuses a lot of people, as well, right? Like, oh well, the Communists were against fascism Ergo.

40:52 They must be more closely related to up to us and that's not the case. Whatsoever. And so I I was fascinated to hear you want those in together because it you're the first person I've talked to that actually kind of recognize how close they actually were there not miles apart. They are really really close and they're just abusive to individual rights and abusive to any people that would try to rise up and usurp the power structures, right? Right. We tend to think that At. Communism could never happen here. We tend to think that that it's one of those things that's a European problem, right?

41:42 But that's not the case. We see it coming here, we've seen that, it's been here. Why do you think it is? That Americans are so unwilling to see the just, what kind of danger were really in on this biggest problem? Is that educating Americans about the nature of Communism was deleted from the curricula from all of the education from beginning many, many decades ago, maybe perhaps from the beginning, very specifically that was done so that they would not understand how communism and Marxism work. And then we had, I mean, you look, Hollywood and those culture makers from the get-go. You know, there were those scandals that occurred with different movie, directors, being found to be Communists and there was the Red Scare of amongst Hollywood Executives but that was a real thing.

42:35 They were many of them were different, Hollywood directors. And writers screenwriters were recruited in like the 1920s to become communist and some of them did And they began inserting that agenda into, you know, the movies in the / different Productions. And I don't know that I mean obviously socialism and different ideologies, friendly to Communism, have been huge in our entertainment and now we're to the point of woke Insanity. Where entertainment is just putting out all this neo-marxist drivel for preschoolers for children for everyone where it's like hard to even want to watch a movie anymore. It's just so absolutely overrun with Neo work. Neo-marxist, woke, ideologies, communism again it's the wolf in sheep's clothing that can have a nice appearance. It can look nice and warm and fuzzy. And if you don't understand how to look what's beneath the surface, you can be easily duped and communism. Really praised on, on a lot of weak thing weaknesses that we humans have to do bus.

43:48 It's just human nature. And so, obviously, educating people about the true nature of Communism is, I'm extremely passionate about it. Wrote my book, my documentary, based on the content of my book, I'm hoping to reach many, more people with this information and not just Reach people, but help people, my documentary will be used as a tool segments of it to help people in their local communities to be able to educate people. And I have a whole I'm not going to spill the beans on that, but we really need to reach Each Mass numbers of people as quickly as we can to help them understand these agendas. We still people a lot of people with good Hearts, good compassionate Hearts have been duped because it sounds like a nice thing to help the oppressed of course, that sounds like a nice thing and we do need to help the oppressed. But if it's involving violence and focusing on grievance and stoking people to anger, well there's your red flag. You're dealing with Marxism?

44:50 Absolutely you bring up a good point that I don't think people one truly understand what fashion. Excuse me. What communism is anymore? Look, I was a kid when the Berlin Wall fell? And I remember I was watching cartoons and I remember, I think it was Dan Rather, if I'm not mistaken came on and said, boys and girls are going to want to wake up your parents. And so I went and woke up my parents and it was He's like, hey, you gotta, you gotta come watch TV. I guess, I don't know they interrupted the cartoons. I was super pissed. I remember about, I remember that. I was like you. What, what you you got rid of the Smurfs for Dan Rather, but yeah, I was upset so I went and woke up my folks. and, I remember my dad saying, I think this is finally over.

45:42 I think we want. And if I'm not mistaken and, and one of the In the world government class. I was in some there was actually a kind of a dissertation or thesis wrote that really Caught Fire Within academic circles. This idea of be end of time, right? We had defeated this, this monolith of communist, whatever, it's on the dust. It's in the Dustbin of history on the ash Heap, but it comes back. When when you're starting to encounter a lot of these things, again, do you are you surprised? It has come back.

46:26 Well, let me I don't know. Did it ever really leave? No, no, of course not. I mean, there's several Nations that there was there, you know, North Korea. China, many other nations have been communist all along. Yeah, it was a lot of people say that communism just kind of went underground in terms of It's threat to the west but boy, in the last 10 years it has certainly shown its face. I wasn't very politically aware. When I was a teenager or even a young adult, I just was kind of more of a generic. My parents were both conservative, my dad was in the military and so I had more of a conservative leaning, but I was very unaware, it was really, and truly living in Russia coming back, studying Soviet history. and then building into my thesis and studying, you know, up to my neck, as I say, way in primary sources of the oppression of Christians, in the Soviet Union and, you know, reading all these Horvath accounts and my major Professor for my Russian language and literature, Masters herself being a Soviet dissident, who escaped, the Soviet Union by the skin of her teeth in the 70s and we studied the dissident literature of the Soviet Union and boy, it's Unforgettable and it really it really opened my eyes.

47:51 I think in some ways I think it was very unusual for for me to get that kind of education in grad school. I don't think most Russian professors are former Soviet dissidents, I think there's probably a lot more Progressive type folks that are major professors. Before that major Professor, the previous head of the Russian department at Florida State where I attended was Actually nlds man who was one of the first mission presidents for the LDS church in Moscow. And so that whole Russian department at Florida State was, I think a little bit different from the get-go do to him and his legacy.

48:34 But yeah, I had an unusual experience as I met different people who also studied Russian history. Even Soviet history in graduate school and they didn't come away with the same type of understanding of Communism that I did. I think it also helps that I've lived in Russia before and I sorry saw the aftermath and, you know, the the human toll not all of it obviously. But I saw a lot of relics of Communism and what that had done to people and I really deeply care about the people of Russia and the former Soviet Union. And so it was very personal to me. So yeah. But again, I really wasn't politically aware at all until this process that occurred in my mid-20s and kind of matured more into my 30s, if you're comfortable with it because I don't want to do anything that you're not comfortable with here. Can you tell me about that?

49:31 That human toll? It took that You saw what was it that you saw that left, that kind of impression. I'm hoping I'm not repeat if I'm repeating anything from our previous interview, let me know because I have a hard time remembering what stuff I showed where it's okay, I can go through and hit the Ton, you're good. Well, just for example, there was one man that we were that, as a missionary in our missionaries. We were working with this man in the city of seductive, Russian named Carl, and he was a double amputee. In a wheelchair, in his 80s, the town, the city that I lived. In for much of my mission said octave had a lot of ethnic Germans that instead. And during Catherine, the Great and Carl had been a soldier for the Soviet Army in World War 2.

50:17 And he had been taken prisoner of a prisoner of war by the Nazis and subjected to horrific treatment, then he was liberated from that. But then what the Soviet Union did is because Carl and people like him were ethnic Germans. They were assumed to be spies now for the, for the Germans, and then he was taken to the gulag in the Soviet Union. After he'd been freed from the Because never a prisoner of war camp. And so he spent years in the gulag after that he was a very deeply, traumatized individual. And I met a lot of deeply. Traumatized older people. I'm saw a lot of mental illness more than I was Ted seen in America. And I a lot of people that would just be come to start crying talking about their past and I even met this this really interesting Russian couple of I lived in Salt Lake and I had a, I had a holistic healing practice and this was about 10 years ago and I had done some work with this woman. And she talking about her childhood in stalinist Russia. She was just bawling and there's just so much trauma and way that I came to see Russia after my mission and during my studies and now I see Russia as a very end, not just Russia, all the former Soviet republics very deeply traumatized, the people are dealing Dealing with massive trauma at a generational level and they don't even quite understand it. I think maybe part of what's

51:47 going on there now is connected with that. Obviously there's much more to that but it's a people very traumatized by their history and then the Soviet Union fell and then they just had to kind of move on with their lives into this new era. But there was never a reckoning there was never A chance for the for the people to heal at a generational level and and one of the things that I did with my holistic healing practice, and I'm still to some degree. Now is generational healing and understanding how the traumas of our ancestors is passed down to us and impacts Us in different ways and there are ways to heal from that so that that's kind of my understanding on that. Just a lot of older people who are very traumatized. Many of the mentally ill.

52:40 You said there was never a reckoning that allowed those people to heal in your mind. What would that Reckoning of been? I mean, what could have happened to to help that healing process? Well, if you look at Germany and I guess I'm not an expert on Germany, but after after the horrors of, you know, Nazism and Hitler there, the Nuremberg trials and there was a reckoning of some degree where the Nazis had To make amends and there was a some of them, not all of them. Obviously held accountable for those horrific Deeds that this never something that took place in the former Soviet Union. There was never no one was ever held accountable for and perhaps the people that should have been held accountable were no longer alive but there was never a full Reckoning of the human toll of the gulag and all those abuses of the Soviet system. there were some organizations that would try to bring attention to those things, but It was not it was there was never any big moment of national Reckoning Russia. The other states, the Republic is why do you think that is was was the rest of the world just ready to be done with the threat of Russia and let's move on what was it? That didn't allow for that moment because you're right with with Germany and and even later Wars, we've been in, you know, with with Iraq or Afghanistan.

54:12 There was a bit of Reckoning that took place, right? You did have have a trial for Saddam Hussein. You had a trial for the Nazis. You had, you know, trials for certain, Taliban leaders, and Al Qaeda leaders. What was it about? Russia's circumstance. That wouldn't allow for that to happen. Well, I thought about that and I think there's a few different things. First of all. We were allied with the Soviet Union in World War Two, America was and Britain. And that was during Stalin's era and that was during Stalin's, most brutal. I mean it was we were sending them food.

54:54 We were, we were, we were aiding and abetting Stalin and I don't think the West wants to dredge that up. I don't think they want that known. Yeah, we did it in the name of taking out a monster. But who would, which was the worst monster? I mean, it's hard to say that. If one is worse than the other, they're both terrible. I mean, I suppose you could go buy raw numbers and I think Stalin did did beat Hitler that way. I hate to turn it that way but he did. He did surpass Hitler's numbers that way. Yeah, Soviets never had gas Chambers. I guess they had that going for them but there are there are things that I've seen. I watched a documentary number of years ago, where Hitler actually gave credit to Stalin for inspiring, his hatred of Jews and desire to exterminate them.

55:39 There were I mean there was a the Jews and Ukraine especially I mean many of them were executed and Stalin was very anti-jew but so the West I don't think wants wants to put that out there, I think. And then also the gulag then there's the whole aspect of there are powers that be that don't want to educate people on communism. So they don't want to bring attention to the gulag. I mean, I didn't know what the gulag was. Was I I was a college graduate. This is before my mission I didn't I don't think I heard I don't remember when I first heard of the gulag probably wasn't out when I was a missionary it's not common knowledge like the Nazi concentration camps that every school child in America learned what happened there and you know read The Diary of Anne Frank, nothing like that here in America.

56:32 So we're not very connected and then when communism fell I think we were just kind of glad I think it just wanted to be swept under the rug and And it would did not directly impact Americans. The fact that There were those horrific labor and prison camps throughout the Soviet Union. Whereas with the Nazis, it was Americans who liberated, you know, and who saw firsthand some of those Nazi concentration camps and so that could not be ignored in America. So what are the differences that I've thought of gotcha? I think the other part that because we're not educated on communism. Is this idea that communism is the the cure-all for any sort of social element that's out there?

57:26 And so for just a few minutes, I want to pick your brain on on if Russia was truly and cuz I use Russia because I feel like it was the purest form of Communism that the world had seen for a while. You know, I don't think China has come close to it. They they obviously were pragmatic enough to understand. They had to turn a few levers to become less communist. I still ascertain. They are communists. But, you know, communist light. mom, what Did Communism often talks about you know, hey we're we're completely engaged in this idea of getting rid of racism.

58:10 Did Russia ever Really get to that point. I have a lot of thoughts about Russia and racism. I have to say so I went to college at Florida State which is in Tallahassee Florida which is Deep South. It was 45 minutes. South of the Florida Georgia border, right? And I went there for my undergraduate and I did my Master's there but I moved there in 1993 to start college and I grew up all over America and my dad was in the military. I go to Florida State, Deep South and I feel like shocked at the Racism that I saw in Tallahassee. There's literally another side of the train tracks where there's a black University and it was just jarring for me. My best friend in high school was black, I grew up My whole upbringing was not hyper focusing on race, it was not really a thing.

59:03 So it was weird to go live in the Deep South and see the racism there. But then I went to Russia on my mission and that I really saw some racism, the things that people would say openly it was very shocking, very racist against Jews against gypsies against people from different. Like let's say Azerbaijan or Armenia people which is very openly racist. I was in again there and they late 90s. Maybe it's a little different now but the whole communist like oh we're bringing all the peoples together as there's just a sham same thing with what they said about treatment of women. That's where I was going next, the women in Russia. I hope it's better now.

59:49 I haven't been to rush. It's been twenty 20 years, 21 years since I've been there but holy moly, the misogyny that I saw when I was there women and part of that okay, Russia had more casualties from WWII than any other Nation. It killed off a good chunk of the generation of men. Women had to kind of take over in a sense. But you see a lot of families where it's a you know a single mom with kids living. The grandma and where are the men to be found? They're drunk, or they're dead. I saw numerous at least once, maybe twice a week. All winter long. You would see women dragging their drunk, my husband's home on the ice physically, just dragging them on the ice so they wouldn't freeze to death.

1:00:36 You never really see women drunk but drunken Russian man that that whole stereotype is their big for a reason and but at the same time, so women running the show but yet There was a lot of misogyny. It's very very strange dichotomy there and you know the Soviets and again I was there pretty soon after the fall of the Soviet Union, they claimed to uplift women. But what they did is they because women can work now and now we're going to put all the kids in the, you know, from like the earliest of Ages in these kindergartens and these, these daycares and you know, raised by the state essentially. But but what ends up happening when women are put in the work? Force.

1:01:24 And the men are just disabled and drunk is the women. Now have to end, we see this in all countries, women are now responsible for the home and breadwinning. Right and and in Russia even up until when I was there, there were no conveniences. Like I was when I was a missionary there, we were making our food from scratch. If I wanted to eat something other than bread and pasta, it would be made from scratch. I met so many women who worked full-time, Add all the cooking from scratch and cleaning. And big would go grow their own food, all summer long on their plot of land, their duchess And raise the kids and no husband.

1:02:04 And all of it, that doesn't sound very ideal to me. And then very, very staunch lack of male leadership, but still misogyny on top of it. And that's kind of like what it was with the different ethnicities. Russians were very ethnocentric and not very polite about people of different races. I happen to To fit in very nicely in Russia, blond hair and blue eyes. But different missionaries who were maybe Asian or there was a Hawaiian missionary, I know that they and I actually had some Mongolian Mission companions not treated quite with the same amount of respect. Yeah, it's very strange.

1:02:58 So yeah, it's all a scam. The Sham. What the Communists say about on doing away with racism and misogyny. That's not what I saw. What about this idea of equality across the board? Did it ever come close to doing that? Well, equality and impoverishment and equality and enslavement and subjugation to, you know, the state in that way. Yeah, I mean well it's hard to say there. I'm sure there's some things like the one thing that I can say that that Lenin was did well, was that there was big toe, everyone to read, everyone learned to read, they had to learn Russian and they did have the public schooling and And you know, there's a lot of smart people in Russia, a lot of great scientists and a lot of great minds and you know, and some of them I know would have come from peasant background so there was that aspect of it. But then there's the equality of the impoverishment, like I mentioned right.

1:04:08 Everybody's poor. So we're all equal with the exception of those at the top of the proletariat, right? Those those things The top government officials. Yeah yeah running running the the the show, so to speak. Yeah. So it and that was the thing. That surprised me in the thing that continues to surprise me. Is that there's this idea that. Oh no. The system of Communism is fine. We just haven't found the right person to run it yet. But who is the right person to have that much power? That is what there's one guy with trust but so far. Nobody named Jesus has come to administrate that thing, right? So it can't be ran properly, it does it. There's no way I think the founders understood that the Is of the United States, that's why they divided power up. They understood that, that if power is centrally located, you're in a world of hurt and it whether it's communism or socialism, it always collapses in on itself and never ever works.

1:05:19 The promises that makes are never fulfilled. It is, it is the ultimate in getting a bad bill of goods because they'll show you one thing. But what's actually in that box is death horror and bloodshed on a massive scale. I read an article by a very I believe he was educated at Yale. And I can't remember what his name was. But basically he took a tally of any one that was ever killed through say religious wars or, you know, Wars that were just exclusively for for power and land and paired to how many people died under Soviet occupation or communist occupation and it blew the rest of the numbers off the charts. I mean didn't even come close at least 100 million casualties in the 20th century.

1:06:14 Not counting casualties from war, but just from communist Nations abusing their own people through famine. Through purges executions debt untimely deaths in prison camps at least 100 million in the 20th century. Alone. Did you ever did you ever study the Ukrainian? Man-made famine, I guess it would be called I studied that when I took Soviet history, I can't recount all of the details of it. But essentially the Soviets, one of the things that that happened in the Soviet Union which we unfortunately see happening here in America and the West it's called Li senko ISM and there was a ahead. I don't know if he was the head of agriculture in the Soviet Union in that early era or what, but he was one of Of the top people and basically communism is such an idea has such an ideological bent that even science had to meld itself to it.

1:07:15 And he had some improper understandings of Agriculture that were because he was basing his understanding on what it should be according to Communism, how plants should grow according to communist ideology as opposed to reality. And that resulted in Crop failures. Then you combine that with the purging of the kulaks, the the pool, a kulak was a Russian peasant many of them in Ukraine. Also who was maybe slightly more successful and maybe slightly more well-off than some of the other peasants. Maybe had two cows instead of one and the kulaks became an enemy of the people because they were, you know, greedy or you know, they were taking too much for themselves and whatnot.

1:08:04 Not and so they would go in a Countryside and ask the kulaks, the people that were made by hand of a slightly better house or two cows. You have to give up, give us your cow, give us, you know, hand it over hand over the goods and the ones that were like, no, this is mine. Well, you're off to the gulag for you. And so the most successful farmers were purged or sent off to the gulag leaving behind the less successful Farmers. So it's kind of a dual thing there that led to the famine and and, I can't remember the number the count of the number of deaths but it was definitely in a Millions tens of millions. I think, then there was, it was covered up in the media.

1:08:48 It was covered up within the Soviet Union and abroad. I mean, there were some accounts that would reach it but there's there's definitely enough information out there. Now, to understand it was just a mass killing off of the people. I mean, people had to resort to can. Well, I don't they had to but they did resort to cannibalism. I heard an account of someone who is a ukrainian-american, who said that his grandmother told him that they had to, they had to decide. Are we should we kill our own children and eat our own children or just let everyone or we're going to die first. And then someone else is going to come and eat our children. It's just unbelievably horrific to imagine. Just the the human Cole, just the human Devastation that this one ideology has has cursed.

1:09:42 The world with is is unfathomable. And what's even more ironic is that as far as I can tell communism, really gets it Its power from two things. The one we talked about what was this idea of constant conflict? Well, the other is coveting. Yeah, I know that sounds kind of silly on the surface as you look at it. It's all about people coveting. What other people get? Yeah. And never about, okay. So what did they do to get that? And how can I emulate that kind of of work or That that, that discipline that it took to get there instead, it was this get them, right?

1:10:33 Get those who've got it and let's spread it around. And so it's all born out of this very Primal set of laws or this idea of going against those very early laws that are handed down even on stone tablets, right? Don't covet, don't kill and and it seems to be the Cops at the photo negative of what happens and it's again, you purge the successful Farmers, you send them to the gulags or you execute them. And then you give it to somebody, who can barely get enough to feed his own family. It's bound to fail and it's all born out of this idea of. They have it.

1:11:19 I don't Ergo. They must have got it illegally, or they must be immoral. And that is such a poisonous thing to to put in the into the Zeitgeist, if you will, of a society because it forces cannibalization of ourselves. Absolutely. And that's what communism does. It takes the best and the brightest and it cannibalizes them. That's a great way to put it. The greatest artists and Poets, Russia, the heritage of poetry and Russia, I wouldn't have known if I hadn't studied well living in Russia. They are very proud of their poets, poot, Alexander Pushkin and many others.

1:12:02 They maneuvered by the the Soviet era the poets that wouldn't just, you know, praise communism. And that's all they would write about it. They wouldn't do that. They can no longer write some of the best artists fell by the wayside because of Communism scientists with real science like the people that would stand up to that license. Oh guys I know your ideas about agricultural wrong. Well you're off to the gulag for you know you know we're going to go with the ideological view on science, not the actual, you know, No, the one that's based more in evidence. So yeah, it cannibalizes people with legitimate ideas, who promote Beauty, who promote good things. Some of the best and brightest.

1:12:45 And the thing is, when you look at other communist Nations, they actually would go in. We'll look at like it's Vietnam. Cambodia, once a Communist Regime gets to the power, they actually Target the educated classes for to be purged. Just because that's their biggest threat of who could take power back and they want it to be a group of peasants, low level of Education, more willing to be compliant and you kill off all the possible people who could take your power back. So I want to switch gears now and go to where we are today.

1:13:27 Yeah. Which news flashes, this part won't be happy in front? Where are we at today? On that road because I think it's been a road for about 100 years, right? Yeah. Um, that, that we find ourselves here, right now, whereabouts on that. Scale, are we? In terms of just being communists or socialists on some level. Yeah so I don't know if you've ever seen this interview with the occasionally, be agent who defected from the Soviet Union in the late 70s.

1:14:08 His name is Yuri be as me enough. He was he was interviewed by G Edward Griffin, in 1985 and this interview can be found on YouTube. It is I highly recommend it. And in this interview you're a has-been of lays out his job As a KGB agent was to subjugate other nations and to infiltrate. And to brainwash the populace, you said that, the most activity he was a propagandist for the KGB, most of the kgb's efforts went words propaganda. The holes Espionage aspect of things that we see in movies that was much less of what they did. Mostly it was propaganda and he was actually in India as a propagandist and he said there's four steps were Stages of subjugating, subverting a nation to Communism and step.

1:14:59 One is demoralization and he said it takes between 15 to 20 years will you have to get into the education and demoralize the rising generation to teach some that socialism is good to prepare them to accept socialism. And when this interview was recorded in 1985, he said that that first step was Way Beyond over fulfilled in America. So where are we now? I mean obviously we're like so far beyond overflow filled with demoralization, it's not even funny when I haven't looked at this in While you make sure I get these steps right. Would when you're looking at that real quick, let me ask you something about demoralization.

1:15:41 So when he's talking about demoralization there's I want to make sure I'm understanding here, correctly Julian, I apologize and kind of slow sometimes. So there's like being demoralized against an opponent, right? If you're in a conflict or or a sport or whatever and then there's a demoralization as far as stripping away your morals which Which one is he talking about? They're talking about stripping away, the ideology of a of individual freedom in America and replacing it with socialism. Okay? So actually taking those morals and values that that used to come almost with our DNA. Okay.

1:16:24 Yeah. So demoralization the next step. Is. Sorry about that. Okay no your step 2, if I'd of ideological subversion is destabilization. This takes between two to five years to enact and the in this phase the nation's economy. Foreign Relations defense is different institutions, are we come under attack to shake the nation at a foundational level? It takes two to five years. I believe we began destabilization in March of 2020.

1:17:07 So what it's been three years So two to five years to destabilize a nation. We're definitely very far gone with that. Step 3, hold on one second. If I could explain, that's an awfully specific date, explain to me what happens in March of 2020 that leads you to believe that that that destabilization occurred, lockdowns, covid, lockdowns, and pandemic, measures, and all the destabilization that emanated from that. And then And some of it not connected. I mean you have our borders under Massive Attack, that's not necessarily connected to covid but it's also happening during this timeframe our military is there.

1:17:52 Some destabilization with us sending all of our military equipment over to Ukraine. Our economy has is undergoing some destabilization. We just had a lot of that going on step 3. According to, this is your ideas, man. Of step, 3 of communist. Subversion is called Crisis crisis. Takes about six weeks to complete after which the nation has fallen to a Communist Regime. A crisis there can be either a war, some extreme economic situation and a power grid failure. There's a cataclysmic crisis that occurs and then When the new communist leadership takes hold step 4 is called normalization. That is where the Communist Regime is Empower their purging their potential opponents.

1:18:46 They are just going through and making sure that they maintain their power and giving the populace used to the new, the new kid on the Block. So, I thought of this, I thought of this and this I think we might have already have had different phases of Crisis and normalization because I do think that we perhaps have already had a coup inside within our federal government. They already have taken power. They're already trying to normalize us and it's just not fully taken hold in every aspect yet.

1:19:30 Or you could say we're very far. We're pretty far Advanced with destabilization and it could be some big crisis that could come again. I don't know that the powers that be are for sure. Going to follow the exact pattern of setting up a Communist Regime, but we can't assume that they're not going to follow that pattern, right? We should we should assume that it's possible. And the good news is that we still have some element of free speech, obviously not fully as fully as we would like there's a lot of censorship and as you are well aware, but we still have some time right now, where we can try to wake up more of the populace. I don't think we can prevent this crisis from happening. I don't think we can prevent a lot of things, but I think we can prevent this whole thing from being successful. Ultimately they're probably going to be a lot of casualties though.

1:20:34 In the meantime we can try to make it so that it's a short-lived me more of a short-lived system that tries to take over. I don't know. I mean we don't know what the future holds but we can't we have to assume that following through to a full tyrannical. You know, government in America that we have to assume that that's possible. And that it's imminent and act accordingly. I'm just thinking here you were talking about normalization as are one of the steps. You remember what we heard all through the pandemic is that we're never going back to what it was before.

1:21:17 They'll be a new normal. Yes, exactly. Exactly. The surveillance the type of surveillance and now with the new AI that they have in the personality want to get that. You all know of Harare talks about wanting to get under the skin of every every person. So they can have her biometric data. They want all the data on all the people so that way I can you know use the its algorithms and whatever to determine who would be a threat who you know what types of re-education different people would need. I mean, just look at China. Just look at what's you know I guess things are calming down a little bit with their latest covid spread of covid but the lockdowns you know, barring people into their apartment buildings to starve to death, you know And just the horrific levels of control and like you cannot go anywhere in China.

1:22:08 It's illegal to go anywhere without your smartphone. That's tracking you. And there's just trying to everyone that I listened to says that that China is the model for this new order. And it's not a paradise over there. No, especially for people who want freedom. No there there. Yeah you're either going to play ball with the government or you're going to get this beard? Yes. Yes. um, II have to say, okay, go ahead, go ahead. No, you first. I just have to say, I think there is much that we can do to prevent this whole thing from succeeding at least for very long.

1:22:54 And again, we have to take our culture back, I don't feel like I have control over what our leadership in Washington, d.c. does. But our local school, boards and school districts are local churches. What we allow our children to view the entertainment. We allow them to view. We and it's hard to believe me. I'm a single mom, and I'm homeschooling my son and making sacrifices in order to do so. And he did it tend some charter schools at different times and there were some positive things with that but the system, the education, there's just so much. That's a whole other topic. It just, I couldn't leave him in that situation but we have to do what we can.

1:23:37 So our children have true information are raised properly. Early with understanding of freedom and so that they don't accept this system and so that they understand how how it's supposed to be and not get brainwashed. Let me know if you this token. We we've we've kind of tried this idea of flooding you know school board meetings. It's sometimes it's work. We saw it worked a little bit in Virginia I enlarged. And maybe I'm wrong. And if I'm wrong, please correct me. But by and large I feel like that ship has already sailed for public education. I'm not I'm not sure there's any saving it as it stands now. And what I mean it is that's that might that might be true but so One of the things that I don't, I don't want to spill all the beans, like I mentioned.

1:24:35 So the documentary I'm making about the content. My book to expose communism to expose these agendas here in America, this documentary is to be used. I have a Wade I'm not going to share it now but for the average person in any Town America to be able to engage very easily and activism to get to wake up more and more people. That if they can't get their school boards, to remove the Communist agendas to entertain remove and mass. Instead of whole other systems, I will say this. I had I was involved last in the last previous school year with attending school board, meetings in Washington County, Utah with a great group of parents and we did succeed at pressuring our school board here to remove pornographic books from the school libraries. And we were loud.

1:25:24 We were respectful. I was one of the people she, I shared how How hyper sexualizing children is actually part of the Communist agenda to destabilize society and gave copies of my book to all the school board members to delivered me. And some other people delivered copies of my book to most of the principles in our area and following up with them. I do think I do think that there are things that we can do as Citizens, and if enough people threaten to pull out and are willing and do pull out, and then they're having to shut down schools. There are things that we can do. But it takes enough, people waking up and taking action and a lot of parents, as we know, are very stressed out right now.

1:26:06 A lot of economic pressures on us, but we do have, we do have power and we do, we can go to our churches, our local clergy. Oh, I'm talking about any church anywhere in America and again, my book very much exposes the how communism has infiltrated our churches and what that looks like. And what specific things to show so that they can be taken out. We can go to those leaders of their churches locally and try to press our churches to remove any elements of Communism. And so Marxism from the churches and then say, well if you don't, then we're just going to leave. Eve and I know that especially in hearing you talk. People don't want to hear that amongst the specially. Like let's say the LDS crowd but just in general across the Christian world.

1:26:52 We have to insist that where we worship and where we take our children to be trained. That they're not actually teaching communism mixed with Christianity which is happening very broadly. And again pull out and and if the churches will not comply with our wishes to remove communism, Is anti-god Antichrist out of the church had of our churches. We have the power to do that and if there's enough of us, we can really make some waves. yeah, and I'll say this, we know the LDS church listens to its congregants. On some things. I mean, the the man tied Temple was a very powerful point there, right? They were going to gut it and due to that Temple, what they're doing, the Salt Lake and enough of the local stood up and said no and they instead went and built another, a different one and you from but they do listen.

1:27:52 the where they where they've infiltrated churches that's super concerning to me because if you can get If you can get to a point to where communism and and religion can work together, that is a dangerous dangerous thing because it's happening. It's been happening for decades. Religion is supposed to act as kind of the failsafe mechanism within a society society's, moral compass and if it goes astray, if it goes dark there is nothing left to prevent Catastrophe on a scale that leaves human wreckage everywhere.

1:28:41 Yeah. And I will say, where do you hear any leaders of any church at all? Right. Now, any major church is speaking out against communism against, you know different aspects of what gives them in Marxism you don't hear it. It's not a thing. The ones that you did here in the past of course, Ezra Taft Benson and Billy Graham also was was openly and vocally. It's back in his earlier days. They either were silenced or, you know, whatever happened but we don't, we don't have leaders of churches. Speaking out against these agendas we are the people are the ones that have to do it and we have to hold our churches accountable. I will say that out of all the major churches that I studied a top ten major churches, Christian churches in America, LDS church has the least evidence of communist infiltration But water is, that's good. There's still some to concerning things, and then we have upwards of half of America's.

1:29:39 Mainland, Christian churches, by mid 20th century were. Very deeply infiltrated with Communism from the top down and it's gotten significantly worse now. To we're to the point again, I don't remember if I mentioned this in a previous interview to over fight another interview that I did. Last week we have clergy, we have there's a YouTube video, you can watch with a clergyman of some It's somewhere on the east coast and a drag, queen preaching, a sermon to some little children on how when Jesus said when the scriptures say to be a peculiar people. Well, this drag queen is a perfect example of your people. I think when it comes to churches, it comes down to one thing and that's your 501. C 3 status writes a very big thing. Yes.

1:30:26 And I think if I think we have to start talking to our churches and ask and then have this conversation with, with the church's congregants, and say, look, We have a choice to make perhaps we lose our 501, c 3 status and all of us here within these pews, had better be in a position to where we feel comfortable giving more than, maybe our normal 10% because that's the only way they're going to be able to survive, right? I think in some ways, the 501 c 3 tax exempt, status was a form of heroin for churches.

1:31:08 You get them hooked and then they can't imagine life. Without it and you can you can Strongarm a lot of churches with this idea of bankruptcy or having to shutter The Doors. If they lose that 501 c 3 tax, exempt status. That's just one aspect of it. The other is an again, I believe those churches that will not go with with the the ideology at hand and allow more of this woke Marxism in. They will be heavily targeted, especially the major churches, heavily targeted with hit pieces in the media, more more mockery than, than normal for those specific churches that won't get with that system with the bookmark system.

1:31:58 And then in extreme cases, if there's any churches they have to probably be small churches. I think they would be at risk of getting the Branch Davidian flds treatment of government raids. They only can get away with that with with Popular churches that can be made to be viewed as cult crazy cultists. But with major churches, I think they're II. Just looking at what I know about how the world works. I guarantee you, they have blackmail material on major church leaders of all the major churches whether it's, whether it's made up or real there, I guarantee you. There is blackmail material that they'll that these powers that be will threaten to come out different headpieces against different leaders. As if churches don't comply.

1:32:43 So we we as congregants of the various churches have to actually tell our leaders of churches, please go ahead and let the hit pieces and fly, let it all fly. And at all cost. Let's cut our ties with government control and government and incursion our existing corrosion in our churches so that we can actually be do what churches are supposed to be, which is helping people, develop a relationship with God and to walk with God, yeah, yeah and look if I'll say this, You had better start getting to a point. I don't mean you Julie, but we, as people, we better start getting to a point to where we don't Peg Our Testimony to a man to absolutely People Are People.

1:33:44 No matter who they are, no matter where they go and understand, people are fallible, right? And that's okay. If you walk into it and understand that, that it's going to happen at some point, you're going to be let down by either another congregant or something that said from the pulpit is going to piss you off or whatever the case is, but we better get to a point where we start to pegar our testimonies To something other than people or else we're in trouble. Tres not in the arm of Flesh. Exactly. Because when that happens, And people get rocked. They're Prime pickings at that point. Absolutely, absolutely.

1:34:29 I also think that that this is again. One of those things that shows the genius of the founders right is sometimes we tend to look at the separation of church and state as a form of protection for the state from religion. But it can also work the other direction, right? And trying to protect our churches from the government, absolute know that healthy separation was there for both parties, not just one against the other, right? Most definitely. Yeah. And again with the documentary that I'm making based on the content in my book, that is very much going to expose how how in the Soviet Union. They infiltrated the church is with KGB agents and how Has churches have been infiltrated with literal Communists, beginning over a hundred years ago, all these different aspects, my documentary exposing that I have a strategy to be able to have clips of the documentary that will be able to be used.

1:35:35 You know, that will be available to be viewed by anyone. And I have a strategy to get Average. Joe average Sally in any Town America to engage in activism to wake up congregants of In all churches in their local area to this information. And we can do this, even with massive online censorship, which I'm sure my documentary will get, we could do this. There's, I have some strategies. I one of my I've been self-employed for several years for many years now and my one of my careers is with network marketing and I'm not ashamed of it network marketing uses some great principles to activate large numbers of people.

1:36:17 And at the product I'm selling, here is freedom and I will use some of my training with network marketing to help activate people to be able to go into their communities and get this information out even with massive Central censorship and I just hope it's okay. If I plug this time actually, please, I need to raise some funds right now to pay my FileMaker so we can get the trailer finished and then raise funds to do the whole rest of the documentary. If I'm actually if anyone would like to do It, please go to beneath sheep's clothing.com / donate and I'm doing a gifts and go with any $15 or more donation for my documentary.

1:36:59 I will give you three home lessons that I've created for teenagers to teach them about freedom to tyranny. And the ideology of localism is our PDF documents. I'll give to you for any $50 or more donation. I'm actually still hammering out some of that right now. Tonight there's going to be Advanced viewing of the documentary for $100 or more donation. I'm also going to throw in a hard copy of my book that will be signed beneath sheep's clothing and there's anyone who really feel strongly that we need to wake up the masses with this information. Please donate, if you can or get the word out and that link will be there in beneath sheep's.

1:37:40 Clothing.com, donate, perfect. Tell you what? I'll throw up, any link you You want to in these in this episode page and as far as far as what you were talking about with the filmmakers, yeah, I need to talk off off the recording here before working. Okay. Um, I'm going to fire. I know II only said just about two hours, so we're approaching time but there's a few more things I want to go over here. If you, if you have a moment. Sure. And can you tell me at all about? Let me see if I can look his name up real quick. I'm currently reading something w.e.b. Du Bois, he was the founder of the NAACP, okay? Now, if I'm not Not mistaken.

1:38:35 He was an avowed communist as well. It's my understanding that and double AC p-- out started out as a communist institution. Yeah. And your have, they been able to separate a little bit from that II? Don't, I don't know. I'm sure that there's numerous people who've been involved with the n-double-a-cp who are just people who, you know, who are pro-civil rights, right? The Communists really latched onto the Civil Rights Movement, to try to radicalize people. People who wanted civil rights to radicalize them to Communism. So it's kind of hard to pick that apart sometimes. I don't know any more than that but yeah, definitely, there's a communist element there. Okay.

1:39:20 Finally I want to ask about this because I'm curious and I haven't been able to make heads or tails out of it. That's why I talked to his people way smarter than me like yourself. With what's going on in Russia and Ukraine right now. Is there any spillover from its history with Communism? That is directly impacting. This is there any ties back to Communism that we can look at and say oh there it is. It's not, it was never completely gone in my opinion. The biggest high over is what I already mentioned, which is unresolved trauma.

1:40:01 That is trauma, that is unresolved will show its head in Some form again, at some point and so had to have these countries. Now be involved in war. And Ukraine, in particular was just pummeled, you know, the Nazi the Nazi soldiers, came and did a lot of damage. Also, in Ukraine during World War Two, And I think unresolved trauma is the biggest one with that. Going back further, the relationship between Russia and Ukraine. There are others have been tensions there. Although Ukraine is the is the Cradle of the Eastern Slavs. It's the Kiev is the founding city of all the Eastern Slavs which is Russia, Belarus and Ukraine. They all come from up that common place and their languages are very close.

1:40:51 They are brothers. Russia always has been kind of the overbearing older brother, boo, you know? Kind of likes to maybe take too much dominion over the others. This war is a fabricated war in my opinion. I it's very painful for my, I can't look at what's going on. I look at enough really hard heavy things. And I'm actually a very empathic person and I have to kind of separate myself emotionally. So, but any time I've looked more closely at what's going on, the human toll, in Ukraine, not just with this war, but even before it, it's very painful. For me. Yeah, I think I think I think both governments are probably pretty bad, right?

1:41:34 Ukraine's. Government was probably not. Probably was very corrupt, you know? I think Russia's, you know, we know, we know Putin's offed, his political opponents, right? Doesn't necessarily speak to a smooth transition of power, where where the populace has a say. And who's ruined things, what's unfortunate is it caught in the middle are just People write just people, but I don't think any of this would be possible without some sort of deep-seated recognition of looking for the strong man, or the strong central government and that's the ultimate fear, right? Is that, because people have been conditioned to look for that.

1:42:22 There might be brief moments where where people don't look for that, but if that's what you've known, Known for Generations. I think people tend to go gravitate back towards that authoritarian, kind of way of doing things. Well, Julie, we covered a lot of stuff is there anything? We didn't cover that? You want to get to know and you ask a lot of questions that no one else is asking interviews. It was very fun. Thank you. I just think. No. I think we covered a lot of bases and I think it's important to recognize the danger that were in without going into fear, and I knew that can be difficult, but we need to go into a proactive approach, a active place, where we in connect connection, with the Divine find our direction, of what our purpose is, what we need to be doing with their families.

1:43:17 With their children, with different acts of preparedness. For instance, of I'm been involved the past few years with growing a lot of food helping in my friend at her Homestead and and learning how to canned food and preserve food and all that and it but also what can we do to understand these agendas more fully and help wake others up. There's a lot that we can do even with very dark Forces working against Freedom. That's, I guess the main point. I have. That's awesome. I got one last question. Then I'ma let you go because I just find this conversation fast. Fascinating. Where you look at the two main threats of Communism, that allows that ideology to thrive conflict and envy.

1:44:08 I think envies one of those personal things that each one of us are going to have to get over. Yeah. And you know, we're going to that's a god problem, right? That's one that we're going to have to take to God and be like, heal my heart. Yes, but this conflict one. This one is a little more external, right? How do we combat that conflict narrative? Because you're talking to a guy who's very flawed right? When I get hit per se, my first instinct is to hit back but harder that's not necessarily a good way of doing it. So how is it? We defuse this, this conflict that seems to be propagated by those wanting. This communist system because there's a part of me that thinks if we a not, we've got to somehow be able to get our point across without being part of the conflict. Yeah.

1:45:09 Does that make any sense of how do we do that? As people? I think there's multiple different areas and then I'm sure other people to think of more than what I'm going to say. I think I think being strong, first of all, I trained in the martial art for a few years. Before I had my son and my instructors are always like, what you trained in martial arts so you don't have to ever use it. You don't train in martial arts so you go out and hurt people, you train so that you have that confidence within yourself and you, you know, that you're not going to need it. But in the event that some wacko, tries to hurt you, you can defend yourself.

1:45:51 So for defense, there are times when violence is, you know, if someone's trying to harm your child, someone's trying to do bodily harm to you. Yeah, person is Justified in self-defense. I think the ultimate answer to all of it, it's the same as with MB is rising up as people and Rising more into our higher selves. That it's just above this whole level of conflict. And I think having compassion on our enemy, he's even like the ones that we think are just evil through and through.

1:46:31 There are serving a purpose here. This Earth to expose people to evil. And that is part of at least why I believe why we're here to be able to choose. And so we can have a level of respect for even our opponents and not hatred, no hate. We don't need to have hatred but but to be strong when you get ourselves healthy, be able to defend ourselves. I say even have love for our enemies. I think that's what Jesus said also and those are my simple answers. Yeah, those are simple.

1:47:13 A simple answers. I think that those are hard answers because I keep coming back to two guys always well three if you count the source but I come back to three people who won and did it very unconventional, right? You had Jesus who if you believe who Jesus was? Yeah, he could have snapped his fingers and not died and whatever but chose not to hit back. Whether you like him or not Martin Luther King jr.

1:47:53 You know, he was like, read, Jesus, read the Beatitudes and then Be nonviolent, don't get back. And then Gandhi the same thing. Gandhi openly said we're using the tactics of Jesus here. Which really pisses me off because I'm a big fan of hitting back. But at the end of the day I think that's the only thing that wins right. We have to we have to be able to kind of take it to a certain extent that extent being, you know, bodily harm, obviously. But I think I think more Nat I think. I think where the Communists have been really good about being able to infiltrate and Slither Slither their way in. I think we have to start doing a better job of evangelizing for things like Freedom, rugged, individualism and capitalism, and in those sorts of things.

1:48:53 But I don't know. We'll see how it all shakes out. But yeah, Julie, it was awesome. Let's do this again. Sure, I'd love to. What's what Like I said, stick around for five minutes when we're done recording, but I think you're a rock star. I think that that your voice is so needed right now because I just don't think people are aware and you're definitely out there ringing the alarm Bell. So I appreciate that. But well, thanks for having me. You bet. Let's uh, let's talk again and definitely keep me informed and let me know when that documentary comes out. So I'd love to have you on again. Absolutely. Alright. Bye everybody.

1:49:53 You're listening to the Mormon Renegade podcast. You're listening to the Mormon Renegade podcast.