Episode #3 The Over Prescription Of Psychotropic Drugs

0:05 This is one of those episodes. I feel like I need to tell you the listener that if I end up dead in the next couple weeks, I am a not suicidal and be never go swimming with concrete boots on. I told you at the very beginning of this podcast, if there'd be a wide variety of topics on this episode, I talk with Am Blake Tracy and has been leading the charge against the over-prescription. Of psychotropic drugs for well over 20 years. In this episode, we cover everything from the history of those drugs, to Ann's involvement. In high-profile cases. Such as the Columbine, High School shooting and comes highly credentialed. She has testified in front of the FDA on multiple occasions as well as on talk shows and even Fox News.

0:50 Now, I want to say this in the beginning and I are not doctors and in no way. Should the things we talked about here, be construed to be medical advice. Also, the views Press here are mine and mine alone and do not reflect the views of the church that I attend. So join me next as I talked to an on this edition of the Mormon Renegade podcast, Your listing to the Mormon Renegade podcast. Well, and I can't I can't tell you how much it means to me that you're on the podcast today.

1:49 Realize that that you are extremely busy. What was the name of your organization again? International Coalition for drug awareness and primarily, what, what's the focus of that group? What is it? You guys do? Are you into a like legislation? Are you into awareness? What is it that you're that group, really does, probably all of the above all people? Just don't understand enough about prescription drugs or over-the-counter. I mean, there's a huge lawsuit on right now for resent at causing cancer and they've known that for 40 years but done nothing about it.

2:40 So, let me ask you this out of all the things you could have pursued, throughout your life. How did you get to this point, right? Well, maybe what made you what was the point at which you were like? Okay, this is a huge problem and this is a A worthy enough. Cause I need to devote my time here. What was it that got you to this point? Well, I was the living in Salt Lake City. Which I quickly learned about 1990 was a pharmaceutical Laboratory. Really.

3:21 And I was surrounded by people that were on drugs. So when you say farmer pharmaceutical Tory in the sense, do you feel like they targeted that the drug companies, targeted Salt Lake City, or that that it was just, you just happen to be someplace where people were really using the psychotropic drugs. I was told by someone that was targeted. I mean, it seemed pretty obvious first, but it was kind of odd to hear that from a Catholic fellow on the East Coast And I said, oh, come on.

4:03 Why would anybody care about little bitty state in the middle of nowhere? He said you don't understand. It's the only state left that as a whole has good, strong family and moral values. They want to break that to accomplish what they're trying to accomplish and I'm afraid they've won. So, At what point did you realize it was a big problem. It was there a point where you're paying attention this case because your mom to you, write your wife and a mother. So you probably have seven thousand other things, right? What was the moment where I guess we're like, hey, this something's wrong right?

4:56 Right away. Right away, but it makes it became progressively worse and worse and worse. I realized. And that that guy was really right. They had definitely targeted the state because of the steps that they took It just to me, it was shocking, because the very first thing that I saw was people who had never touched alcohol in their lives becoming an alcoholic overnight. I thought, what on Earth, and there were two friends in particular, both of them LDS test, which meant they were non-drinkers.

5:47 But as soon as they got started on Prozac and neither of these friends, knew each other, They were separate friends of mine one male one female and both of them were just drinking so heavily, I couldn't believe it, the one ended up in a psychiatric ward because of the mixing the two substances from Zach and alcohol. She went psychotic And so it really hit home for you. It was personal. This wasn't just right, I academic exercise.

6:30 No, I had just gone through the temple with this friend who ended up in the psych ward. So I was really shocked to see that kind of a change in her so quickly. And it's a go ahead. Sorry. No. I was just going to say the other was male returned missionary an assistant to his mission president. And he was drinking like crazy. It just saw both of them really stood out for me and so I finally they kept asking me both of them, you know.

7:12 We know that you know a lot about help. Probably know a lot about drugs. What do you know about Prozac? And I wasn't paying a whole lot of attention, you know, busy going on with my life and then finally I heard the beer and their voices. And I thought, you know, this seems like it's a real problem for them. Maybe I better check it out. So I stopped by a local pharmacy and picked up a package insert. And there it was plain as day listed in the All the adverse reactions it causes hyperglycemia and my mom was hypoglycemic.

8:01 And so I had really looked into that because I knew, I never wanted it. I thought that's got to be the worst disease ever catch, can't think straight to know what to do for yourself because you start losing brain cells as soon as your sticker drops. So I thought that's an awful thing to chemically induce and somebody and that's why they're drinking. You know, and they don't understand that it's just chemical. So anyway, that's what I first started. Looking at called AAA they could carry blast.

8:42 I thought they would Right, no interest at all. So there was a camera crew news crew from San Francisco but we're really interested in this in particular because one of the reporters that had that happened to her sister who ended up hanging herself. So anyway, they were very interested. They came out to Salt Lake did interviews with people that had had that problem because I had a local Bishop that I'd contacted trying to get hold of someone and Somehow we got started talking about what I was doing, because the person I was looking for her husband had committed suicide on Prozac and I had lost her number and needed to talk to her. Anyway, he said well, when I mentioned the alcohol, he said I've got a return lady missionary in my ward and young mother.

9:56 Just two small children, she's drinking so heavily that her husband's having to stay home from work. Just to take care of the kids while you drink if he can't stop. And he said, you think he could help her and I said, sure. So I met with her and her husband and explain to them what the drug was doing to her and then started working with her to help her wean off the drug. And as soon as she had gotten past that gotten off the drug safely, have to go really slowly.

10:39 And she said, you know, I don't even know how I knew it was alcohol. I was craving because I've never tasted it my whole life. So when when I saw what people were going through, I thought this is terrible. Aren't there enough alcoholics on the planet already? Do we need more? That's really sad. Yeah, so it's explain for me because I'm I'm kind of a novice, right? I know that there's an issue but I do not understand the physiology of how this works.

11:22 What what does the pros? Acts dude, that would, that would take a person who's never tasted alcohol before on their lot and make them crave that, right? Or turn to that. What is it? That would would flip a switch to be like hey that's what I need right, blood sugar. Okay so when that happens, that is hyperglycemia. So when you're doing your level, All drops, as I mentioned, you immediately begin to lose brain cells, okay? So the body will make you crave anything that will bring it up quickly.

12:05 In fact, doctors are supposed to watch very closely for any drug that may drop blood sugar because it is so critical to bring help. And they're just totally missing it all the way around. So that's why you crazy, right? White booze. Why not like a candy bar or a whole chocolate cake or ice cream? Or We crave that too. Okay, so maybe so. Let me see if I'm understanding correctly and again, I apologize. I'm a slow guy here in learning about this. So you got this person who's, you know, maybe feeling off-kilter mentally, right?

12:55 Can focused. They don't even have that. I, you could go in and say you're having a rough day. You're just really tired. You haven't been able to sleep well lately, and you got a prescription for this? In fact, I've said all you have to do to get a prescription as walk past the doctor breathing, and I don't know breathing's and requirement anymore, right? So so the okay, so this person, you know, hey I'm having a bad time, whatever it It is right. We know it's easy to get and they may get this drug and then maybe they start out, maybe eating a little more junk food and then maybe they smell, they smell the alcohol.

13:39 We know that certain things within the body and you can correct me if I'm wrong, you're way more knowledgeable. But I know for me, if my, if I seem to be low in something, sometimes, if I smell a food that has that compound in it, whether it's sugar or proteins or anything, It'll smell very appetizing. Is it a scenario where where the booze becomes accessible maybe they're in a social setting and it just smells too good to pass up or something and they take it and then all of a sudden it's producing the effect that they want in conjunction with the Prozac No, they're not even around it. They don't have to smell it or anything. It's just well.

14:20 And if you look at anybody who's trying to quit drinking, what are they doing instead? Anybody who's ever been through one of those programs will tell you that you will have every type of sugar available. There is okay. The meetings are just full of it because somehow the body knows it's got to get that trigger level up, right? Ask any police officer who deals with somebody in insulin shock. That is extremely low blood sugar.

15:02 So so the Prozac drops of blood sugar and then write, if, you know, booze become extremely appetizing kind of once they're around it and that's that's what they go to. Right. Okay. Now that that that makes more sense. So, so you see this all come down in about what year is this and that this all begins to happen for you, where you start to see this beginning of 90, the end of 89, okay, so you start seeing this come to fruition and it's a big enough issue that you have your local Bishop reach out to you.

15:43 And say, hey, I I understand, you know, a lot about health and can you help this woman and you go to help? Or what's, what's kind of the outcome there? How does that precede? Did you get her? Get her clean so to speak. Yeah. How'd you do that? All the Cravings of alcohol left is the helped. Her. Get off of the Prozac And did she ever tell you why? She took the pros she ever tell you, what was the impetus to get? He had no idea. She said, I don't know how I ever started craving it because I've never tasted it, never been around it, my whole life.

16:27 No, I'm sorry. I mean, did did she talk to you about why she started taking Prozac so much? The booze did she go? I go to your doctor and say, hey, I'm just not feeling good. I don't feel right. Mentally, I'm tired? What, what, what was the then? Capital long? I don't even I don't even remember now because it's been so cold. But right about the same time I had a guy who was He was some type of account Allure and he called me and he said, you know, this is really a serious problem. He said I've been working pretty hard lately and yeah, I'm tired, but I came home the other day and there was a little brown paper bag on my porch. With a note that said, Gee you seem a little down lately. This oughta really help.

17:21 And it was a six month supply of Prozac. He said he was just shocked out of the mine, but that's thanks. So we thought it was pretty insane to so that's why you called me. So what? Let me ask you this. So you go from noticing this on a person, right. When do you decide that that? Okay, I need to do something a little bit more. I need to More visible about this because you've tested and you testified in front of the FDA, how many times five times, okay, five times, you have to testify in front of the FDA and was that in Washington, d.c. well.

18:15 And did they, did they ask you to testify? No, you ask them if you can testify, okay? And then you go in and you kind of testify and then they hear what you have to say. At what point are like three minutes of it. All three, all three minutes. That's all you, get me. If I'm wrong, is I was doing my research on you before I ever reach out to you. I noticed you were even on Fox News, correct. Gibbons I've been on parole. Do you were on Geraldo to Holy Cow? So so your, when did you decide?

19:01 Okay, I need to get out there and speak more publicly about this at what point did were you like okay I got you something more Probably right around the time. I first testified to that ba. Because there were so many people there, with horrible stories about what happened to them. I was concerned because I had someone, a doctor share with me, brain wave patterns of somebody on Prozac and it was a fellow that was only about 30, 35 somewhere right in there. And you'd only been on Prozac for six months, but the brainwaves showed he was in a toll anesthetic, sleep, State and dreaming.

19:59 While I talk to the people who were doing this, test on him, I'm gone. Oh my gosh, there's nobody home. Here, right? Why isn't anybody concerned? So, I took those brainwave with. I took them with me to the FDA And I said somebody needs to look at this because we've got a really serious problem. You don't want people running around with no brain wave pattern, right? With them, totally asleep and under anesthesia and running around. I mean I at least studied enough at that point that I knew that that's what PCP does PCP is and assertive anesthetic. Where the brain goes out, but the body can continue moving. And I don't know about you, but I don't ever want to be in that state.

21:03 No, I want to be in my bed. Sound asleep. I don't want to be up running around cuz you never know what might happen. And Prozac is really just the tip of the iceberg. When we start talking about psychics that alter mental states that are prescribed by a doctor, correct. I mean there's a ton more. So Prozac just seems to be, there's a lot of clones. They came out with Zoloft and then And then Paxil and selectin Lexapro and they, they're still pumping them out, right?

21:46 With different names, as fast as I can, and they all work the same way. When was it that you could remember first seeing that? Hey these these drugs are really starting to be targeted towards children. At what point do you remember seeing that happen? Early nineties and and that about right. So I got married married, pretty young. I got married at 18 and it was 1995 and as I was thinking, I can't, I can remember maybe two kids in my whole class growing up that were ever on Medicaid. You could spot them because they kind of looked they have that Faraway look in their eye, right? Right.

22:36 Now, from my own experience, I can tell you that. After gosh, I want to say it was probably 2000. I started noticing more and more parents putting their kids on on me psychotropics, right? And the thing in, thank of breath for them. Yeah. Yeah, I remember reading one that did the birthday of the really put it. There was a place in Salt Lake call. Called. The Children's Place or something like that. And they were literally pushing it to small children, right?

23:17 I talked to a couple lit, they had talked them, into putting their two-year-old on. Prozac, how do you look a two-year-old? I've had six kit, right? A Carol, if they're not bouncing off the wall, that's usually a red flag. That something is wrong, right? Hey, Ivan had a chiropractor. Tell me that. He had a couple that. Wanted to know what they could do for their child. The baby was only a month old and they had it on. So, lat really. And that was in Kansas. Yeah.

23:59 So they're like, just crushing up like the doctor prescribes a low dose and they crush it up and put it in into the baby's formula. Holy crap. Okay, so so you see all this. When do you, when do you begin to form your group or your organization is a better word for it? Probably about. Well, I started first, it was a group called the Prozac survivors support group, he and everybody wanted me to be the head of that group and I was no, I'm starting to write about these drugs and I really don't think I have the time and the following morning A young man about 20 21 jumps.

24:56 Right outside my office window. And the police, he told the police before he died. That he was on Prozac. So he had a client, I said, okay guys, I'm heading the group, I won't back off any longer, right, you bad? I thought somebody's trying to tell me something that's why they say on those on all the drug commercials the, you know, one of the side effects effects could be suicidal ideation or Suicidal Thoughts. So he was vile, ideation Is Not Just Thoughts either, right to die.

25:51 That's spooky. And and look, I'm going to be real transparent here on this episode. I'm a guy who adopt said a twins, whose mother was on methamphetamine while my twins were in utero and my, they, we've been so blessed because they came through without any physical problems. I mean, it took swallow gum healthy but They came through. But later on jerem my son. We could tell that he was fidgety, right? He was an see all the time and he was a problem at school and write this words. This was long before I had my eyes open to it and so the teachers were like you should really have them, see a doctor. And so we take him in and the first thing they want to do our cram these pills down his throat, right? And because they were Born with low blood sugar, right? And, you know, they I felt that it was, this is the part where I'm ashamed to admit, an is because I felt like, I felt horrible doing it, right?

27:06 I felt like this wasn't right, but at the same time, I'm like, doctors have helped me nurse these kids back to health from the brink of death. Literally, when they're first born, I got to keep trusting them, right? I mean, I'm not a Expert in. And I remember the day I gave my son. His first pill I wept I wept because I knew something wasn't right. But and I felt conflicted that if I go against the doctor's orders, am I putting my son in a worse position and so we did it right? And then Ron, you know, and it was years, it was, it was probably five years worth and He's not getting any better and he start in these episodes while he's on it right where he just gets angry and and a little bit aggressive and I'm like these pills are help.

27:59 So we take him back in and they're like well maybe we need to adjust the dose and I'm like, before we do that, let's let's look at some other stuff and they're like well let's go get have them see a psychiatrist and a counselor and so we do that and then they're like, okay, let's go get him. A full-on psychiatric. We do that and they come back to, we're going to up the dose and again, I feel conflicted, right? I'm like, I don't know what to do, right? And and this is my impetus for really reaching out to you, is because I can't be the only guy in this situation. So, me and my wife were feeling conflicting. We're like, okay, we're going to do what the doctor says and we upped the dose and please is over, right? And he does that for a couple months and then it's like he builds a resistance and he eventually Gets to the point to where he's right back to being aggressive, he's having suicidal thoughts and I'm going to call it what it is, right? And and I basically got on my knees and said, prayers like I hadn't said prayers in a long time and I'm like, this is your son to God.

29:07 It's not mine. I do apologize for getting a little emotional here, but I was like, I don't know what to do with the fear of losing him. Scares me so badly. What do I do? But he's your son too. What do you want me to do? And it was just that night. When I said that prayer with my wife, it was very apparent. Just stop the drugs. It was drugs that got him here and it's drugged, and drugs aren't going to fix it. I believe it was Einstein who actually said the person who creates the problem, very seldomly as a person that can fix it. And so I I looked at it at that way and we stuck cold turkey, right?

29:51 And and and that was, you know, because I didn't know any better, right? But I just stopped cold turkey and it was about week's worth of you know combat of this and anger and all those things but after about three weeks and it will it was a miracle. He like came back into his eyes, he was settled down. This was two years ago today, he is a kid. Who does online school by himself? Gets good grades. He holds down a part-time job. He is full of D and life and he, he, he's either running around the neighborhood or doing sports or something, but he's a different kid and he's so much better well-adjusted. And I check with him, probably once a week. Are you having any bad thoughts?

30:44 and and so I looked at that and I was like This happened to me granted. I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed. I know it could. It's probably happened in the somebody else. Oh yeah. And in fact every time I'm asked to lecture 2 At school or a youth group the kids will always say, well what about Ritalin? And I say, well, the chemical name for Ritalin is methyl, phenyl date. So what is it? May all our meth and I say good, you're right, go home and tell your parents.

31:30 They haven't figured it out yet. Right. So long that was happening is the poor kid. Was addicted to that drug in the womb and as do they get closer as they get further away and as I get closer to puberty where their bodies going through so many changes, they will start reverting back to that addiction, right? Because they need more nutrients that have been robbed from them by the drugs. Okay, so that's in its.

32:18 So my kids were adopted to and they were both born with hypoglycemia. Okay, my daughter's father committed, suicide at about age 18 or 19. They said he had so much alcohol in his blood that they had never seen it before. Wow. So, and my son, I found out was conceived while the parents were drunk. so, Anyway, I raised them where they did not get sugar.

33:00 And they were very calm. I just managed their sugar the whole time, and made sure that their diet fit what they needed to go through. And they would go to business meetings with me and just sit there quietly through the whole thing and listen, Wow. Yeah, all right. So I I'm sorry, I kind of got off on a tangent. There, telling telling my why it was, I felt like this subject was so important, but not a tangent. I mean, so many families are going through this, right? I tangent as far as making it personal, but so so let's, let's catch up here in the story. So you have several brushes with this seeing that there's a A problem with the psychotropics that they're, they're administering, 22 people, you get in, with the group. Prozac drivers group, you become the head of that. At some point, I'm guessing that probably morphs into your, the, the current organization that you had now, correct. Yes.

34:10 And I had written a small booklet. Just before all this part happened. Okay, console problem. Pandora. Okay. All right. And so then that very first hearing at the FDA was in 91 September of 91. Okay. So I met all these people that have been through this including Dale, Shannon's Widow, who has become a very good friend over the years. I don't know if you remember Dale, I don't why don't why don't you give us a quick some quick background on who deal was.

34:54 He was a very very popular singer in the 60s. 50s 60s. Run away. My little runaway. Okay. Yep that was his big hit. Anyhow, he had taken. He had had a previous problem with alcohol. And had become a real health nut. He would not touch anything. That was chemical. It all had to be natural. His doctor lied to him and told him the Prozac he was burned out because it's career was taking off again, and he just had so many gigs, he could hardly keep up with it.

35:44 And so, I went to the doctor and, of course, the doctor solution was Prozac and the doctor lied to him told him. It wasn't even a chemical. It was a mineral he was missing in a drain. And 15 days later he was dead. By Suicide. Yes. The Yeah, that's my point to the grocery store just down the street came home and found that he had shot himself as soon as she. So anyway, it was so many families like that. And As soon as I got back, I Ran by A good friends home in Provo, who was Robert Redford's mother-in-law. No.

36:38 Wow. And we always spent every fourth of July at their house cuz they lived right there on the Main Street and anyway they weren't home. So I just stuck a copy of my book in their front door and said, just wanted to update you on what I've been up to lately and I got a postcard in the mail a few days later. That said, thank you so much. This helps us to understand what we've been through lately. I all my God. No. So, I picked up the phone and called her and I said, Phyllis, what on Earth are you talking about what's happened? And she said that she and her husband had gone to New Orleans. For a vacation during the Mardi Gras. And they got jumped.

37:38 And they were robbed but her husband, hit its head. You don't ever want to take one of these drugs, if you've got a head injury, Anyway, it would they got home and within a month or so Frank had lost five friends? In that short amount of time, and of course he was a depressed. That's normal, right? You lose friends or you're going to be depressed, but anyway, they gave him Prozac. And within a week, they diagnosed him with rapid onset Alzheimers, and they wanted to put him in a institution and luckily Lola Redford's wife said, absolutely not. You know, you take him off this drug. And they refuse to do it.

38:37 She said, fine, we'll take him home and take him off. Know what they said to her. What's it luck? Good luck. And doctors still claim. They don't know these drugs have warble withdrawal. But she was able to me mama. But I mean he was he was fine after that, right? No. Signs of Alzheimer's or anything else that may disappeared what a coincidence, right? So so you're really getting well-read at this point. Let me ask you about some of the history on these on these, the psychotropics that are prescribed by doctors wear. Do they come from innocent in essence right at what point did someone say?

39:34 You know what? I think that this certain compound can help this person with this kind of ailment. Who starts who started is the one that really starts to development for the psychotropic drugs. Whoever wants to make a quick buck. So after lunch about. So what's this worthy psychotropics initially done by suitable companies where they initially done by by the government. I mean, what, where does this come from? Well, when I first started looking, I read absolutely everything. I could get my hands on. and, I ran across a bunch of information on the MKUltra program. Zi a had going on right?

40:28 Which is horrendous? Yeah. Oh my gosh. What they did and not a conspiracy theory, right? I want to get that out there right now. Yeah, it was real. You can go. There's still parts that are redacted. But MKUltra in the, the 60s and Ben was, if I'm not mistaken you can correct me if I'm wrong. You've done more research on this and I have it was a CIA operation to and it wasn't like just one program. There was a ton of programs under MKUltra. One that I remember from my reading was one called I climax where they would hire prostitutes to slip their John's certain psychotropics, and then they would watch as the John On.

41:19 Yeah. Whether John would then spill his guts and they were like okay this is something we can use in foreign policy or whatever. So right there was a ton of sub-programs if you were under the the MKUltra umbrella. Is that correct? Yeah and it all seemed to start about the time, the CIA ran Operation Paperclip. For they brought 1600. Criminal Nazi doctors. Out of the Nuremberg trials, which is interesting.

42:00 Because when you go back and do the history on World War Two, we know that the Nazis were given German soldiers, methamphetamine, that kind of Quasi super soldier in the sense that they just didn't fear death because they were so whacked out on whatever it was, they were doing that. They were getting some amazing results so to speak. And if anybody has Yeah, of the concentration camps. You know, immediately I could not, I had to run out of Dachau. I couldn't be there, it was the most horrible feeling and the pictures of people holding their heads and screaming.

42:48 You knew that it was a facility where they were using those people as guinea pigs. Right. Well he was young clear America today. Yeah well yeah and we know that that the manga Lord had done a ton of stuff and we know that there were other German scientists that were experimenting with substances to alter, you know, people's perceptions and people's ability to fight harder and longer. And so this you can definitely doctors and then Media were hung after the trial, right?

43:31 Except for the ones that are CIA brought here, right? So in your search in your research, would you say that that the first development at least here in the states with with the psychotropics comes from, from the government, in the sense that it's government-funded? They want to get this out. And, you know, there may be Seeing some applications for information, extraction from other foreign Nationals. Is that kind of the impetus for how the howl, all these psychotropics, begin to find their way to Market. Well what I found before I put my large book out. After all the research was that Congress caught on to what all was happening because the CIA was drugged Taking prisoners, they were drugging military.

44:31 They were dragging anybody that they could think of to drug. That was in a position where they could get control over them. Because they thought LSD was the greatest thing ever. They used 80% of their initial budget to buy up all the LSD they could. When they could not get LSD, that was grown on ergot fungus, which is the way it was first discovered. They brought their 80% of their initial budget back to America went straight to Eli. Lilly pharmaceutical company.

45:14 And said, we need a synthetic version of this drug so that we can use it for mind-control. Otherwise we can't use it in our program. We got to have it by the truckload if we're going to do this. Lily developed. Eli, Lilly developed the synthetic version of LSD. To show you how much of a problem there was with it. Some of the finest Obstetricians and Salt Lake were giving it pregnant women.

45:54 So okay, hang tight real quick. Under what pretenses were they telling women to take? I'm sure that no idea I mean because because I'm trying to make the connection right here and where a woman has a large two, dimes telling them not to drink water from the tap. But Obstetricians were telling them to take Ella 2D. Hello. Yeah and I'm trying to think of of what would be the impetus. Right? What what what the woman's going in and she's saying I'm suffering from what?

46:36 And the doctor goes. Well, I got your cure it's it's it's this hallucinogen. Hmm, what happened after that was when Congress caught wind of what all was going on with MKUltra. And Ellis d. They had a hearing and band LSD. And a reporter turned to the people from the CIA and said after that hearing, wow, what are you going to do now with your mind control program without LSD? They didn't even skip a beat.

47:22 They looked at her and said, well, we'll turn to the pharmaceutical companies to see what they come up with, in the way of a drug used for psychoanalysis or something that we can use for mind control. I mean that icon. Okay. You just put up a big neon sign saying hey you want a good big government contract. Come up with a new drug for us and Lily had been delivering the LSD to them for a decade. They were the ones with the contract. They were the ones who immediately lost the contract. When Congress, banned the drug when you came to climb lines together, to me, it is very clear because my brother I was living in that area, right about the time LSD was band. And he met someone working for Eli Lilly who was head over heels with the idea that they were coming up with a new drug, that was gonna get rid of depression all together. That was Prozac.

48:51 I believe. That Prozac replaced LSD. And it took care of their contract. Between the CIA and Eli Lilly kept them in business. And that's probably why they were hurting pretty bad about the time that they were getting Prozac out there and getting it approved because their own scientists came to the heads of the head. Scientists are Lily and said, we have a problem here because it looks like prozac's actually causing suicide. And I don't know what he was on, but he actually did enough to write in a memo.

49:44 That Lilly couldn't afford to lose Prozac. So what they were supposed to tell the families of those who died of suicide on Prozac, was it? It must have been caused by their underlying depression. They were not to tell them that it was the drug. He put it in my mouth. Luckily, our attorneys found that and they said Ali tons. And tons of cases to keep it out of news. But people are continuing to die. So, terrible death.

50:32 So that is the background on how how the drug that the psychotropics really begin to hit the market. It's all about, you know, the government contractor cancelled. So now we have to go somewhere else to recoup our money so to speak. So we'll put it on the market as an antidepressant and it'll, it'll It'll pay for itself that way. And and I would dare to guess by the number of people who are using psychotropic drugs right now, it's off the chart in there. They're making money hand over fist. Oh yeah. So and they had 17 points, they wanted to achieve with that new drug.

51:16 And I saw a list of that Captain Joyce Riley, shared that with me at a press conference in about, 96 down, in Southern California. And when I read that list, I couldn't breathe. Oh my gosh. It, and it took the wind right out of me because there was only one thing I saw in the list that I had not seen Prozac causing I can't remember what the one thing was but anyway I do remember a whole lot of the other 16 that it fit perfectly and one of those is something we're seeing absolutely everywhere that I've been warning about for 30 years. What's that?

52:05 Matt is change in gender. Let's let's table that for a second. I want to come back to that. I want to explore that deeply here but there's only about 100 of those now I think, right? I want to thank you. I want to go down the line of back to your story. So you start the group hurt. You head up one group, it, morphs into the other, you're testifying at the FDA? You're on Geraldo, you're on snooze. You you're getting out there, right? And I mean, look, It's not hard to find, right?

52:49 If you just go Google and Blake Tracy, you're going to see everything come up and you articulate your well-spoken. You got your facts straight. So at any point, you feel like starting to make a dent, we're starting to wake people up. Was there a point at which you felt like a we're doing something. And and can you can you tell me about that? I started testifying in criminal cases and Following the drugs and back in 1992. and, Then.

53:29 I got very interested as well in the hole and been Redux the Asco and I don't know how many people remember, what a horrible thing that was and how many died and that and how they were jerked off of the drug cold turkey. But they those drugs worked very much the way these antidepressants do. And they cause similar problems. In fact, I had one woman who's a very well-known psychologist, who is on television a lot?

54:16 She said, when she came out that drug, she sat with a knife to her chest for days. She said, had my mother not come to stay with me. I would have used it. Geez, and that was from the abrupt withdrawal from that drug, right? So anyway, What happened? They were pulled in 97. And right about that time, dr. Candace pert, whose research was used to develop.

54:56 Prozac, she was not involved but they took all of her research and used it. Is she came up with the serotonin binding process, her neurotransmitter binding process that made them possible and she came out publicly in Time. Magazine calling these drugs monsters to that she wished. Her research would never have been used in any way to create these drugs. And she here she is one of the top psychopharmacologist in the country. So I want to back up, okay? You get that woman comes out and says, you know, these are monsters that that I helped create and you said you thought that, that going to be the end of it. I thought surely it would be the end of it. Here.

55:54 She's the one that said did all the research that made them possible. And here you can see the monster and so you feel like you were not to take them, right? So you thought you thought, okay, this is the end, see the light at the end of the tunnel. We're gonna win this thing, right? That's probably what you're thinking, like, how much more evidence do I need the person who created this, they're calling a monsters, and we're going to, we're going to rid ourselves of this permanently. What happened contacted her and we joined forces Yeah. So, so what, what was the result of that?

56:36 Nobody cared. And why do you think that? What why do you think that is? Well, there was no media. There's no denying coverage media, that's what project Mockingbird was all about. So, if this was, which I now do believe it was something that was ordered by them. Okay, of course, there would be no media and it was really hard, you know, getting anything out. I was expert and comedian. Phil Hartman's murder suicide. I had been at A hearing for a woman in Lyman. Wyoming just a day before that happened. And it was identical.

57:30 It was the nicest lady in town who was being prosecuted for murdering her husband And when I spoke with her, she said, I can't tell you what happened. All I know is, I came to, and I was standing at the top of my stairs with a Smoking Gun in my hand. And my husband was laying in another room and bed with a bullet through his head. So I assumed I must have done it. So I walked over to the Sheriff's Office and turn myself in. And she was on Paxil.

58:18 So anyway, I had just driven back from Lyman. Wyoming down to Salt Lake the night before, and woke up the following morning to what had just happened. In Encino, California in the hospital and you were an expert witness in the Phil Hartman case. Yeah, holy cow. And you you seem to have been involved in some pretty big things, look, if you're being called as an expert witness, I can speak to you. Just from my line of work, not podcasting, but what I do a job.

58:59 If you're called as an expert witness, you can bank that Is it pardon the expression? You got your crap together, right? I mean, you're respected. What you can be taken almost as gospel. So you're getting called to these things and you keep sounding the alarm. It's got to be frustrating that that despite you're doing. It's not making any n roads, it gets worse. Yeah, it's worse. Well, I got the Hartman case on Dateline. And that apparently made him really mad. Hang tight. Who's this? Who did you make mad? The dirt farm?

59:46 Hey Carlton. The Pharma Mafia, right? And and I got called in on a deposition in a case that I had nothing to do with and the attorney said, look, I need a favor and, You're the one they want. He said, I know you have nothing to do with this case, but I need something and they'll give it to me if I give him you and I said, okay, if it'll help this case, I'll do it. so I went in and they ask one or two questions about the 13 year-old, but hung himself after only seven days until law and then they changed it and said, Weren't you the one that called the Hartman family, the day of their deaths? I said, no, it was actually the day after then, why didn't you make the call who made it my responsibility? Why aren't you concerned enough about what is happening with your drug that you're out there?

1:01:07 Following up on these tragedies to see if your drug might be involved? The next person who dies could be your wife, your son, your daughter. Of course, I got nothing but the poker face. we're trained to produce, so, Anyway, I obviously, I made them pretty upset I guess and they were upset that I was looking at a federal judge who had just killed his wife and himself. I knew he was on an antidepressant, but after that little meeting, I knew, which antidepressant he was taking So you ordered all of my transcripts from kindergarten on all of my email, it was just crazy.

1:02:03 It was like going after a nap with the atom bomb, So after that, the next year is 20 Columbine happened. Right. Let's, let's stop there first, because again, I want to get into those things. Let's let me ask you this. Once you start making a dent because each even though they're kind of trying to suppress your voice a little bit, you're still making inroads right. You're still making progress at what happened? What? What? The drug companies do in response to all the testimony that you're given, right? Because you're not just in court. You're Nightline you're on Fox News, you're on her although you're taking it to them, so to speak. What do they do fonts to you?

1:03:02 Well, that's what they did. I also found out that the year Book came out. It really went into all of this came out the summer of 94. and the following year, my small Hometown in Arizona. Became the suicide capital of the nation. And the attorneys I was working with were shocked. They said how on Earth is just going on in your little hometown.

1:03:43 I said, good question. It was no whose Sheriff. Richard Mack is. I grew up with them. He was the sheriff in our town at the time. He now heads, the Constitutional Sheriff's group, okay? And Is trying to help Sheriff's understand, but they are basically the ultimate power in their counties and can hold up just about anybody, right? So, he's out there doing that.

1:04:28 He said, when I contacted him about what was going on, oh, I've had to bring three of my best buddies on one body bags on those drug. All, I've been Sheriff here. And so you think that just to make sure I understand you correctly here. You think the Drake? What did the area with the drugs? Okay. All right. Did they do anything to get somebody right? You know and they have taken out plenty of my family doing that. Was there anything more personal did they ever, you know, calls or threatened legal action or anything like that?

1:05:15 no, just the wanting, all of my email and All of my transcripts from kindergarten on, you know, that I think was to the Big Show of power got you because they sent their lead attorney asked me. Wow! Wow. But never wanted me to come to Colorado and I said, if you want me, you got to come to Salt Lake, right? Right. And so they're their estimation there, they're doing everything they can. And to be like, look, we can we can do certain things here but they don't ever go for a lawsuit because I'm guessing that your documentation and your science is pretty irrefutable. Would that would that be a correct assessment of the evidence against each drugs.

1:06:07 Absolutely overwhelming. So overwhelming that their own expert and a mass murder suicide case out of Wyoming? Actually testified to the fact that and I quoted him extensively in my book. And he came on that case and testified that what you should expect from a drug that inhibits the metabolism of Serotonin. These are serotonin reuptake which is metabolism serotonin reuptake Inhibitors and he said when you inhibit that metabolism, what you should expect is impulsive murderers suicide.

1:07:01 Which is exactly what happened. In this case, that was settled in 2001. And the jury ruled that the drugs were the Cause, right? May, you caused So they awarded like 6.4 million to the family for four deaths. As if that could ever compensate. But anyway, right. So, that's what I'm saying is that evidence is clear. It's absolutely overwhelming. There was also evidence that the drugs are causing, what is called a rim sleep disorder and that's what happened to Phil, Hartman's wife. She was started on the drug by your son's psychiatrist and year old son.

1:08:02 Yes. Yeah, I had to help him win up to but He suggested because she was burned out from writing a screenplay. She was writing a screenplay about a woman who shoots her husband in his sleep. Interestingly enough. And the doctor prescribed Zoloft to her. And she called him back about three weeks later and said, hey, I can't take this drug, I can't handle it. And so he said, well let's cut your dumped in half. You don't ever do that.

1:08:45 That will throw you into horrible withdrawal and this REM sleep disorder. Has long been known as a drug withdrawal State and it is a disorder where you act out your nightmare. Geez, three weeks later. she got up, and Pulled the gun out of the nightstand, bill? That apparently woke her up somewhat, the gun going off.

1:09:26 And so she got in her car and drove over to a friend's house. Friend was a lot of help. He thought maybe cocaine and help bring her out of it. Is there's the beach was really slurred and right threw up like three times while she was there. And she kept saying, I can't tell, I I think I shot bill but I can't tell if it's a nightmare, if it's real and she wanted the friend to come with her. To tell her what was real. And of course, he came back with her and told her it was real. He walked out into the other room, cuz of course, he was going to call the police.

1:10:18 And she picked up the phone in the bedroom and called her sister. And was just totally hysterical. She said, oh my gosh, Kathy, I'm shot Bill. Why would I do that? There's no reason for it. And she was begging her to take care of the children. She was the one in their paperwork in there. Will that was supposed to take the children if anything ever happened to them, right? Anyway, she hung up and telling her to tell the children that mommy didn't know what happened and that she loved him. And she hung up and laid down next to him. And chartered though, Oh my gosh. But that disorder that REM sleep disorder. There were doctors that were the topics forts in that that had been doing some research on it and they found that right about that time.

1:11:27 They put out a study saying that 86% of those they were diagnosing with that disorder work. On an antidepressant or had been taking one. Holy cow. Yeah. And it was, that was something that they had hardly ever seen before 89 90. Right? At the time Prozac came out Right, holy cow. So anyway, I was actually on the phone with the chief of police in Salt Lake City, talking to him about my friend who'd been killed at the Salt Lake family, history, Library shooting.

1:12:22 Who I had warned over and over and over again, that he was working in the most dangerous place on Earth. Which everybody would probably say, what Salt Lake family, history, Library Ryan. That is because so many people on these drugs, start doing Jenny ology cuz I can't remember who they are. So they'll start doing genealogy to get more of an idea of their family. And their own family history. So they feel that connection again, that's gone with them cuz I can't remember who they are.

1:13:08 And so I explained all that to him. He was the he was a security guard. That was killed in that shooting. Wow. And they'll go anyway, I was talking to the chief of police and that was right. When Columbine what's going on? and he said, do you think what's going on in Colorado right now is possibly these drugs And I said well it could be but I don't generally have two people. Go off the deep end at the same time on the drug but I said a commit suicide, you can count on it.

1:13:56 Okay, let me stop you there because I'm they weren't gonna let me, let me kind of catch up here a little bit and recap. So, you, you see all this stuff personally and this is what gets you involved in it, right? In all the misuse and overprescribing of these psychotropic drugs, it touches, you personally, you get involved with some other folks, you get a group going, you can buy your out there, your vocal, you're on Geraldo, you're on Fox News, you're on Dateline.

1:14:36 I mean, you're an Witness you encounter some push? Push push back. So right after Coast-to-Coast I was their top. Yes holy band I really got pushed back that's when it started big time. Was there something else that we didn't discuss? That escalated, even even more than them flooding your hometown with those drugs? Yeah, what happened? Well, I was called in to be the expert in the Columbine shooting. Okay. Yeah let's go home are once hailer okay well hold off one second because I'm going to sum up here a little bit as far as what I saw, right and who wasn't involved in the kind of work that you were doing exposing the psychotropic drugs, drugs.

1:15:37 Now, I graduated in 1996, I grew up. Yeah most of my teenage years. Years and a small town in Western Idaho. And I'm going to tell you exactly what life was for me during those years, right? You had everybody that had a truck in that town. That was a stick. I mean, we all have done in the back. In the back of the window we would go, you know, I can, I could tell you, we would, we would go to football practice and after football practice, it's like, Let's load up and let's go blast ducks at okuda is farm right? And oh, could it was a nice old man and we go blast ducks. And you know what?

1:16:23 There was absolutely zero school shootings that I can remember. I mean you may have had an outlier but nothing major and then Columbine happens. Yep. And from there, it's an escalation. So now I it's important because and you can correct me if I'm wrong. About that time is when you know probably four or five previous 296 I believe is when column know it was 99 that Columbine happened. If I remember correctly 99 or 2000, right 99. So find happens in 99 but if an idolater, they worked several school students before them. Right?

1:17:06 But five or six years previous, they weren't real when right. But I think what you saw and then and I'm only using My my anecdotal evidence of not, knowing really anybody in school who was on, you know, psychotropics. But about that time, it's about the time. You know that 99 34 years previous is when they start really handing them out to Children. Is that correct? That's right. Okay, so and then from 90 on it seems to be one of those things that happens way more frequently and if there's no signs of slowing down. So now I want you to talk about Columbine because I think this is a benchmark moment in, in, in recognizing that there might be a correlation between kids who are on the psychotropic drugs and school shootings.

1:18:04 So, Tell me about your experience with Columbine and then tell me what what the takeaway is for. You can you see a connection between a causal connection between kids who are psychotropic, drugs school shootings and to your best knowledge documented knowledge. How many of the perpetrators are those school shootings are on psychotropic drugs. Well, I track them until about 2011 when the woman who was helping me with a few things passed away and I wasn't able to track them anymore.

1:18:48 Well, I Kind of track them but not like I was before. Okay, so I'm going to find that. Go ahead and find that at SSRI stories dotnet. And there's a long list of who was on what when they did the school shooting. Okay, so tell me about your experience in with Columbine, okay? I was calling on that case. And as soon as Columbine happened. I started appearing on Coast to Coast. And I was doing three and four our interviews with them.

1:19:33 They had like 20 million listeners at that point. and the host that I was doing most of the shows with Had told me. Okay, it happened in 99. This was 2001. right after Andrea Yates grounder, five, kids, whose case, I also work, Ben. I don't know how many people remember, Christopher Pittman's taste. Christopher was in South Carolina and he shot and killed his grandparents at age, 12 and burn the house down.

1:20:24 Anyway, that case it just happened. I had done an interview on that. The host told me that I was Actually getting more listeners than any guess that they had. You know, I don't know why you told me that, but he just did. And I just said, well, that's because so many people are being affected by these drugs. It doesn't really have anything to do with me. It's just, you gotta understand how many people are in trouble on this stuff. Right? And it was probably a month later, maybe two months later. That the station changed hands.

1:21:15 And I was never on again. And right about that time. Same time. Amazon put up on their site that my book was out of print. I called them and call them and call them, and threaten them with attorneys. I said you guys it's not out of print. There are copies standing are ready to be shipped to you whenever you want them because they had been carrying my book and they refused to take it down.

1:22:01 And I said, you know, you're killing people. They're desperate wanting answers about these drugs and if they don't find the answers to know what to do, they're not going to make it. I said you've got this is a terrible thing that you're doing. You've got to put it out there. It's the only place people can go to know what to do. They refused they left it that way for two years. Holy cow. Yeah, let's be pretty much the end of everything. Scott you what? Let me ask you this.

1:22:41 An were were the two perpetrators of the Columbine school shooting where they on any cyclic medication? Oh yeah, both of them. I firmly believe both of them were. I think we have enough evidence but this is what happened. I had called The Coroner told her that I wanted copies of the toxicology on both boys. And Eric's came through. He was on Luvox.

1:23:24 And I waited and waited and waited, and never got a thing on Dylan. So, I finally call this corner and I've worked with Corners all across the country, you know, by then for years, I called and I said look, Eric's toxicology came through but I never got anything on doing what happened. And there was this dead silence. And then she said well Dylan was pretty much a weird kid. Anyway what Josh this is the corner. How the hell you know I'm sorry.

1:24:16 Let me break in here real quick so it was a weird kid. Anyway you're a corn or right? I'm guessing you're not paying now to the high school and I'm guessing you're also not Collecting, you know, anecdotal evidence, from this kids school mates, or his parents, or you're not an investigator. In that sense, how the hell would you know that? He a quote weird kid. So that was her response to you. When you were like, hey I need the toxicology because you were called in on that case. Correct? An yeah. So you're called in and who called you in on, okay? You still working that case.

1:24:57 Who called you in on that kick. I'm trying to put this out and I know it seems roundabout, but I'm trying to I'm trying to give the full picture here who called you in on that case. Mark kaler and his mother Mark was shot six to thirteen times and they was known as the Columbine Wonder Boy because he survived that So it's this boy's parents that reaches out to you and said they somehow stumble upon say, can you help? Can you come take a look? And so you're called in by a victim's family and you're just trying to get answers and they give you the the report for Eric and he is shows.

1:25:44 He's on psychotropics for sure beyond a shadow of a doubt. And then when you ask for documentation on Dylan's toxicology her response, Is he was a weird kid. Anyway now look, I grew up in a very rural area and I'm just going to tell you that's more BS than I've ever shoveled for any farmer in my life. I will agree. And and did you ever like I said I've worked with so many corners. I've never heard of mine like that ever. Did you ever get a toxicology report for Eric or gal? Excuse me.

1:26:24 So they never Sent it to, you know, his records were sealed. It's parents have that everything sealed. Which I also have never heard out in a murder case, especially a mass murder gang. Yeah. I mean that one made world news that one wasn't just us news. That's world news and they had the toxicology sealed on it by whose order who ordered that that be sealed the parent. Now, I'm going to back up here and work these things. A lot more than I have. How does the parent have jurisdiction when it's the child?

1:27:06 That's the perpetrator. Shouldn't that be be something that's admissible into court when because they're still sort of a trial that happens, isn't there a fact-finding trial or of some sort, right? Right. And it should have been public knowledge. So the judge went along with it. The judge was like yeah we're going to we're going to honor parents request to have it seal and I get it right. I'm not trying to find fault with with the boy's parents. I mean they they suffered a loss to but could hell at some point. If we want the solids we got to get down to two. Looking at me, all the causes that happened and and and look, I'm I'm not ready to say because I Don't have all the evidence that that was the sole cause, right. I think that there's many things that probably contributed to their, but that's definitely something, especially if it's affecting, you know, your outlook, you know, your sense of real out.

1:28:10 I can only imagine what a volatile cocktail. And look, I'm gonna, I'm gonna look really silly to a lot of people here. But women, when you're pumping, yourself, full of psychotropics, you're playing first. Stern. First shooter video games that are desensitizing you to the thought of killing, right? And we know at some point in that, shooting one said to the other, this is just like, doom, doom, being a first person game where you shot the place up and you're just a bathing in violence and psychotropics. That's definitely, at least a contributing factor now during from reality, Eight.

1:28:55 So holy cow. So so you said you're working that case. Yeah. What kind of things have happened as far as horrible and cement on the case? Well, the drug companies, put an end to it. And the way they did it, you will understand why everyone calls them Farm a mafia. The attorney that took over the case was pinned under John de camp. That ring a bell.

1:29:38 No, John de Kamp was from Lincoln Nebraska. Okay, he's the one that wrote the book on child abuse. It Boys home. There, I can't remember the name of the book anyway. He was really well known. But he was facing back surgery. And I had a talk with him.

1:30:19 He was supposed to go in for surgery. Just before the case would be presented to the court. I said, John you've gotta be out of your freaking mind if you are going to go under a knife when you're going after these drug companies in court. I said, hello. Well, he went ahead anyway. And he did not come out in its right mind. He came out drugged out of his mind. The factory.

1:31:09 Of course, this really tough. He therefore did not meet discovery which was the end of the case. I had three of the top attorneys in this country ready to step in and help on the case. That's how convinced they were in. The meantime, one of Dylan's close friends came forward and spoke with Mark. Taylor's mother to let her know that she was trying to help him wean off Zoloft and Paxil. Tall.

1:31:51 So I don't think that kid would bothered to make that up, but you know who knows it? Seriously. Right, and good. And I got a point out that shows a tremendous amount of Integrity on your part, that you go so far to say that it's hearsay, right? In the sense that I would, I would bet my bottom dollar that that he was on those psychotropics. But again, it shows a lot of Integrity that you're willing to say, I can't prove it beyond a shadow of a doubt and it did the veracity of their whether you want. Evidence.

1:32:32 Because he and Eric both, when they broke into that van the year, before they were both put in an anger management program. Which okay. Always automatically means you're gonna go on one of those drug. That's what. Take the other hand. Tighter presence. Right? I was just pointing out that he really do. Have you have your crap together? The fact that you're willing to say, I can't prove it beyond a shadow of a doubt, I believe it, but I can't prove it on a doubt. It just lends more Credence to your key, or your professionalism, and pursuing this.

1:33:16 So let me let anyway, let's end the Columbine thing there for a second. Let me ask you this. I wish. Right? Right. Exactly. But but let's, let's let me ask you this question. So we know that from 1999 when you cover Columbine. When you're on that case, you guys are keeping track of things till 2011 until you have a business partner that passes away. You're tracking all this. What would you say? The percentages are of children who commit school, shootings? How many of them are on prescription medication? Psychotropics about ninety percent. Okay, so let me ask you this, if let's just go back in history, let's say you have 90% of cancer victims that have smoked cigarettes.

1:34:12 What's a good causational conclusion there? That's cigarettes that smoking causes lung cancer, right? Hmm. But yet we can't seem to draw a conclusion definitively. Or let me rephrase. This experts are refusing to draw the same conclusion when you have ninety percent of the kids, who are on psychotropic medication, that have committed school, shootings are using those psychotropics and we won't cause that causation. Right. Even when the Pharmaceuticals own experts testified that what you should see when a drug does.

1:35:02 With these do is impulsive murder or impulsive suicide or both. And they tell you in the drug commercials, right? That's the other thing that blows my mind, is that in the drug commercials with the dude that always on and talks 10:00, 10,000 miles an hour when you goes may cause Suicidal Thoughts. We're still not ready to drink has a Sheen, they're all right. That's nuts. That's craziness a out. How do you manage to? Look at all this and not lose sight. I don't know.

1:35:44 It's getting harder and harder and harder. Here's the other thing that blows my mind, is that Well, you have done a tremendous service to people everywhere on getting this out. I have to go dig for your testimony. I have to go look for your your interviews. Now granted, they're not hard to find, but you you got to get specific when you want to start finding stuff, right? But yet and and I'm just going to call it what it is. It takes a guy who is a Mormon fundamentalist quasi rodeo clown to get on his podcast to get Get more word out. It's maddening to me.

1:36:32 I don't understand it. So you see all this happen, you see all these school shootings and in the back of your mind you look and be like I just know that he's on some sort of psychotropic. Oh yeah. And I start looking But there's so many at this point I just I can't even begin to keep up and I really don't know why more people don't care enough that they're trying to do something to. Because I looked when I first saw this 30 years ago, I said, oh my God somebody has got to do something because I don't want my kids living in the world.

1:37:19 We're going to see down the Road and here we are. It's still scary as heck. So let me imma get everybody knew. I wish everyone knew what I know about these drugs. Well, and it's not for lack of trying on your end, right? I mean, you've been very vocal. You you published your stuff, you can go to the website and find all of this information. There is on the website at drug awareness dot-org. There is what did I call it?

1:38:06 A, I put out a post called evidence. Evidence behind school shooting and antidepressants or something like that. And it took out everything that you would see in a court case to prove that they are being caused by the drugs, starting with the pharmacist but prophesied. Clear back in. When was that about 1999, but he called me and he said Look, this is what we're going to see as a result of these drugs. And he said we're going to have Columbine and Red Lake everywhere. there's going to be school, shootings everywhere, and then it's going to start rubbing off on normal people, the kind of manic behavior that these drugs cause He was he said, please tell me that you and I are not the only ones that see this.

1:39:14 I wish I could tell him. And you've had to walk while knowing it would be a lot like watching a freight train coming at a car and you just know what's coming and there's nothing you can do to stop it, right? Okay. What it feels like. So let me let's, let's switch gears here. Let's let the column. But yeah, let's hear the yeah, we might as well. We haven't even heard the dirt yet. Yeah, we need to hear the rest of column mind. We need to do that. Let's let's do that. Okay.

1:39:55 Mark, Taylor's attorney to drugged out of his mind after surgery. He doesn't meet discovery. So, that's the end of his case cuz you cannot ever not meet discovery. So he needed a new attorney. Well, somehow, somebody found one that used to work supposedly used to work for the drug companies. But he had switched sides. And now wanted to help Mark with this case. well, they suddenly called as soon as Mark turned 21, they called him in unexpectedly for a settlement hearing. His mother was not allowed in.

1:40:58 She stood out in the hallway with the reporter from The Denver Post, we've been covering the case from day one. And they were out there all day long. Waiting for Mark who was in that room alone. With all these attorneys trying to come up with a settlement. Finally, I get a phone call. Well, I talked to the attorney that was supposed to be marks attorney in the middle of that, I talked to him over the phone. And I did have a witness on the phone with me because I wanted somebody who could back up, what happened? And I said, look, I don't know what's going on in there. But Mark Taylor did just turned 21 but legally, he is not 21. I said he was shot. 62 13 times.

1:42:08 The damage was so great. The doctors couldn't tell how many bullets entered his body and left. So they estimated it was 6 to 13 times his own doctor. That was treating him after the shooting called his personal family physician and said, I have one of your patients here. He's dead, but he's talking to me. I said he laid there for at least an hour bleeding to death. I said, you know how much oxygen deprivation that is to the brain. Do you know that causes mental retardation? Which means it takes you back several years. Mark's not 21 legally.

1:43:07 You could force him into a settlement but it's not going to be legal. Well, I got a phone call from Mark several hours later. And he said, he said, well I'm out of there and I signed everything so I don't have to go to jail. Why said Mark, who the heck told you that you were going to have to go to jail? And he said his attorney. I said Mark you don't have to sign anything you know if they had him sign I had him sign that he would settle with them as long as they made a ten thousand dollar donation to a charity of his choice.

1:44:06 In his name. That was his settlement for being shot. 62 13 times. So it's so bad. You look 6262 13. That's a wide range, right? So yeah, I mean let's just discount that for a second because he had reigned in each from bleeding out on the floor. He's supposed to have an attorney with him. That has his best interest in mind and he's telling him, he's got to go to jail if he doesn't sign. And he walks out of there with. Nothing one time donation.

1:44:52 To a charity in Mark's name and death, which charity picked out. Which one American Cancer Society? Yes. What? Marks? Being treated for right now, cancer. Yeah, and that's why Why was set up? He was set up several years later. And a false accusation was made, Mark, had his own book out on what happened to him.

1:45:33 It was called I asked God answered, a column by miracle and He would always stop by border books to see how many books he was selling. And he had stopped by Borders Book. Somebody said one thing that that worried people about Mark, is that he would Pace a lot, because he was actually sitting out in front of Columbine talking to his friends about scriptures when he got shot.

1:46:18 Who is he? No. Okay, but he wanted to be a preacher, okay? This is talking to his LDS friends, got you. But anyway, it's so he was sitting when he was shot. and anybody who, D. Thing like that is gonna not want to be sitting anywhere for a long time. You're gonna want to be moving so that you're not in front of a bullet. So mark would paste a lot back and forth and I don't know if that's what happened but they they accused him of threatening to blow the place up.

1:47:08 And there's interviews with Mark and I just before that happened, when Virginia Tech happened, he was out in Iowa, visiting me and we have the news, they're coming interview us and you watch that and you know, there's absolutely no way Mark Taylor ever made. That kind of threat. I mean, he was telling everybody to forgive everyone, you just have to see it. It's channel 89 Iowa, but it's on our website to on our YouTube. So, but anyway, they accused him of that. He was taken to a psych ward and his mother. And I knew the head of that psychiatric unit. And she told both of us, there's absolutely no reason for him being there, but somebody started him on the drugs that Mark was testifying against and had food. They started him on the antidepressants. Holy cow.

1:48:30 Yeah, I got him out a couple months later. But his mother was afraid to say, in Colorado, move down to New Mexico and did not have the drugs with her to wean him off. So he went into cold turkey withdrawal, they were visiting in Arizona. When she thought he was having a seizure and ran him in. To a local hospital. They immediately looked at his records and said, oh, he's not having seizure. He's got a mental problem, and they stuck him in some unit and he's never gotten out.

1:49:24 Jeez. They have drugged him and drugged him and drugged him and drugged him because he is in a guest, a rest home or whatever they call Assisted Living. That's what they call it the mysterious anyway, they forced him to take the vaccines After the second one, he was so nauseous. He could not eat her like three months. More than maybe a biter to he lost 70 pounds. And then as soon as he got the booster, the third shot within a week and he had just been tested before that. There was no sign of anything.

1:50:11 You got a clean bill of health, but the week after he got, the booster was diagnosed with cancer, he's now going through chemo. Geez. so it would have been better off dying at Columbine, Let me. Let me wrap my mind around this for a second. So you have a kid. What's that? Makes me sick, you have a kid who's endured a horrific incident Columbine, and they got his attention at the FDA hearing. And that's when I think they decided they had to get rid of the kid.

1:51:02 He has he testifies that the FDA hearing, he suffered some sort of brain damage because of loss, he has an attorney that sells them down the road to the drug companies attorneys Right? I would really like to know if his attorney happened to come into a lot of money. I'd imagine his bank account, got pumped up a little bit. I'm just guessing. Probably pretty good, guess. Then he gets accused. Of saying that he blow some blow a place up.

1:51:43 He then gets put into a psych. Ward is drugged up. And then somehow comes down with cancer and is now fighting for his life, right? I haven't heard from him for a couple of weeks and now so long, I'm on pins and needles. Let me ask you, this was their information Mark had that may have pointed back to the drug companies. I know for a fact that maybe because you could never Dylan's toxicology report, correct? Right.

1:52:25 Is there any connection between him and Dylan before the shooting? No, he was shot by Eric. He was shot by Eric. Yeah, so his case with solid Okay, and remember I had three of the top law firms in the country ready to join in on its case. He had a good taste. That's how good it was. And they just were not going to allow. The say they the drug companies were not going to allow a significant settlement to happen because that would that would basically say. Yeah.

1:53:09 No, something's wrong. And we're at fault. That's right. Jeez. That is so dirty and that's how they work. So let me ask you this. What do you think the end goal is? with flooding Society, with all these psychotropic drugs, Well, I think we've just seen it. Just cash. You think that's that's the bottom not well yeah cash but the whole vaccine thing I don't think you would have had near as many people bow down and do it well and that's kind of where I'm going here.

1:54:03 So because we know that these look just from my trip, my son, these drugs are designed and you could tell me if I'm wrong to make you a lot more susceptible. To a either docile or be open to suggestion. Correct. Yep. That was on their list of what they wanted. So they wanted a docile society. That was open to suggestion. And who are so sleep. They can't figure out what's right now.

1:54:43 They lose their connection to God. Yep. Now, let me all report that now, let's, let's throw in everything else, right? Because here's what I'm noticing. More so than than than I care to admit. But here's what I'm noticing is that you have kids today who are raised on devices, right? They look at screens constantly and they continually see, just a people that are only happy, right? That are only living there, quote, best life that are reaching every go.

1:55:27 All that. They want a very easily and they're getting a misconception of what life really is. So they start to feel depressed and there's a whole kids that can't be filled and rather than their they're saying, you know, you got too much to worry about, right? Got this virus. Oh my God. Yeah it and so we have a generation now that I never thought I'd hear the clinical anxiety that are diagnosed with clinical anxiety disorder. And the solution is, let's put him on more hugs more psychotropics that will make them more docile, which puts them into a state where they want to do nothing, but look at devices because let's face it.

1:56:19 I mean, you look at some of these poor kids who are drugged out of their mind, they don't do anything else, right? And be they just have no desire for that. So they're socially awkward and We've replaced god with, with screened ends and with influencers and it, you know, look, I'm not a physician, I don't pretend to know everything. I don't pretend to know a lot of things really well, but what I can, what I can say is that, Just like alcohol or other stimulants or depressants, make it hard to hear the spirit of the Lord.

1:57:07 Yep. I imagine that any of those psychotropics have the same effect. And so there's no real and yep, there's a spiritual component here that is Insidious. That is what gets its damn demonic. I don't know how else to put it, right? So you have a whole generation of kids with a god-shaped hole in the center of them that can't get filled with anything else, no matter how hard they try. And it's no wonder that these kids are are are acting out the way they're acting out with with shooting.

1:57:53 They just want to feel something am I off base in any of that. Not in the least, except that these drugs come from the very pit of Hell. Only party left out. So what's the answer then? Well, let's not go there yet, let's not go there yet. Let's let's move on. Move on from from one, you know effect of these psychotropics which is a loss of sensation. Kids just want to feel some.

1:58:38 I find what one of the Columbine shooters say to be very revealing, dude, this is just like, Doom. He's getting off on it, right? He gets a sensation from killing another individual. Oh, yeah. Yeah, you learn if you go into our website and start looking at, there's a movie that I did 2000 tube, I think called drugging of our children. It's on the front page of the website. And you can hear the kids talk about it. What they go through.

1:59:26 Did they just empty right? That they just, they can't feel anything. Yeah, but when they get off, they say, you know, they're they've got their life back. It's just sad and they make false accusations of abuse as well. That's the one thing I left out. I spoke about that in Wenatchee Washington, right? As my book was coming out in 94, and that's where the Pied Piper of Prozac live. If you happen to see that Oprah show of where they were pushing the drugs for kids, there was a psychiatrist. He wasn't a because he was a psychobabble pusher a psychologist anyway.

2:00:26 Thank you. He actually came because he he practiced there and Wenatchee even the BBC came out to cover it. And I lectured. And I said, look, if you do not get your children off these drugs, You are going to have false accusations of abuse all over this town. Six months later. One little girl who had been on Prozac and just switched over to Paxil. Became the foster child of the police chief. And with the switch of the drugs, that's one of the most dangerous times to be on them because you start going into withdrawal and yet you're adjusting to a new one on top of that.

2:01:28 Brain doesn't take that very well. So she started going around town with the police chief is they drive past home to say we had an orgy there and then Orgy at that house and we had an orgy at this house. 11 years old. Geez, he accused so many people. That they had. In fact, 48 hours. Did a special on it? They had 43 people finally that were thrown in prison. The state of Washington, the ended up paying a hundred million dollars. for wrongful imprisonment and that case Did I say 100,000? No, you said 100 wins. 100 million. You said 100 million.

2:02:29 I'm just okay, good. No, I'm just trying to wrap my head around, excuse me, wrap my head around all of this because it's so damn daring prison for two years. Primary president and her husband spent two years in prison cheese. They happen to be one of the homes. She happen to point to and their kids were the ones that went on 48 Hours. The oldest one escaped from the CPS program and was able to get to 48 hours to tell everybody the truth.

2:03:18 No it. And I just, I just got done reading an article that said it's some unreal amount like 90% of all kids, in foster care. On some form of sight psychotropic. Oh yeah medication. Oh yeah, my kids, my two I mentioned were adopted. They always wanted a younger brother sister and it was about 1995 after my book was finished. I started calling around because I looked at all these different kids that were available for adoption. And I finally called the place it was over in Denver, I think the adoption group and I said, you know, I explained that the kids really would like a younger brother or sister. And I said, but do you have any that are not on drugs? Because that's what I do.

2:04:18 And I really wouldn't want to start out a relationship with a child by taking them through drug withdrawal. And she lowered her voice to a whisper and said, you could tell she cuffed her hand over the phone and said, isn't it terrible? We've got a doctor here who's dragon, all the little kids and there's nothing we can do about it. And that's what they do. The minute, they get them. They're drugging them because most of them are on the drugs, right? And they're crazy as loons. I mean, I had one guy that I helped him on a different case because of the drugs, he was in trouble. And before we went into court, he said look. Can you help me with something?

2:05:14 Because I used to be whatever they call them. CPS social worker, who learned something. Anyway, said this was up in Michigan. I think I was Somewhere in the Northeast and he said, I was so out of it on Prozac, but I was convinced at this family were Satan worship boots and he said I was so out of it. I was going to the meetings, letting them put blood and semen on me just so I could gather information on this family.

2:06:00 And he said, I now that I'm off of the drug. I realized those were just Illusions. None of that was real. He said, is there any way you can help me get those children back to their family? I'm gone. How do you do anything now years later? You know, I've got so many horrendous things that have happened because of those people. They even went after the mother of the year for Utah. To take her kids away because she refused to allow her adopted daughter who had seizures to take something like Adderall, which is a super strong stimulant which caused seizures. So the mother said, no, I don't want her on that. And that was enough for them to come and take her kids. Yeah, Jeet it.

2:07:08 We can leave bad everywhere. You look, if you start putting the pieces together, Who. All right. I don't even know what else to say to that. I'm just I'm I'm blown away at the whole Prospect of all this. I know and then you've got on top of that. the LAPD poly graphics for called me in the early 2000s to and said, I'm looking for a doctor, an expert. Somebody who can tell me why it is. That all these cases of child abuse that I'm dealing with, especially child sex abuse.

2:08:07 The perpetrator is on Prozac. Or one of those drugs. And I gave him the science. It's the why that happens. I mean, we knew that many psychiatrists refused to give these drugs and beginning, because they took quickly produced Mania bipolar, but they usually call it now. And one of those types of mania that you can have is nymphomania Jesus. Why wouldn't it for duped child sex? Abuse Terry night out?

2:08:54 I think I might have found one cave to of a teacher who seduced a student who was not Onyx, the female teacher to do seen the male students who the male teachers we had seen before. So I looked at something that was that we hadn't seen before, which one's the women doing, Well, that look I'm gonna be on you. Men are kindness men. Can kind of be dirtbags. So I mean that's them, but you're right, it's more surprising. When it's a male teacher that seduces a male student, that it's used to be an anomaly, right? And now that seems to be more and more Common, Plumbing whatever. Well, and we're two minute.

2:09:39 We're two hours and 41 minutes into this bet. I'm not going to take up. Your whole night but I want to end with this. Let's say Because this show is geared towards Mormons, whether their fundamentalist or mainstream LDS. I don't know what that that demographic looks like, but let's say someone from an LDS perspective as noticing that their child is struggling with you know, depression or you know just yeah, depression anxiety.

2:10:20 They're going to go to a doctor and that doctor and say, you know what, let's let's put them on on on you know, Prozac or any number of Epic medications. And let's say this parent is awake enough to know that maybe that's not what they wanted. You the spirits working with them and say you don't don't do that. What can that parent do to help that child in lieu of psychotropic medication? What I did with mine which was. But a man a hypoglycemic diet. Keep them away from sugar. That's the main cause back in the early 1900's, the annual consumption of sugar was about five pounds per person right now what it is today, you know, I heard 101. Good gracious.

2:11:26 And there is likely almost identical to cocaine. Right? Well, and not to mention all the sugar we get has been Ultra process it, right? - yeah, I look so in and I have a lot of guys. So, I've went back to the gym hot and heavy but the last six months, lost some weight, feel good. And the trainer I work with off and on, he's not a god guy, right? He doesn't believe. in creation or anything else, he's an evolution guy, but the principles are the same right in the sense that Our ancestors, whether you believe in creation or or Evolution.

2:12:19 They, they had a specific diet, right? And, and massive amounts of sugar weren't in there that they got sugar from fruit and honey, and that's it. Yeah. Right. When God gave us sugar, he wrapped it in fiber. Exactly. And so now we're just taking straight sugar and it can't be good for Right. The, the yeah so diet has to play a huge part of that. What about just getting away for a device? How important do you think that is in today's society to help a kid who's struggling with with with depression or anxiety?

2:13:03 Very important. I have studies out showing that exercise for half an hour, three times a week is eight times. Times more effective than an antidepressant. Have just a curiosity. Have you looked at the have you done the same level of research on what screen time? Does to a kid? - I'm waking up. That's what's in time increases serotonin as well. Which is lime been on these drugs. Cannot even use a computer. Because it increases their serotonin too much, and they've already had, it increase way too high to a toxic level on the drugs, right?

2:14:00 So, So basically get the damn phone out of your hands stopped, eating candy and go play and stay away from dairy. Okay? Because the dairy, dairy, the casein and dairy is a serotonin reuptake inhibitor. Wow. Yeah, you know, there's a doctor that took kids that were Autistic, which is a condition of elevated. Serotonin He took them off Dairy and sugar. Eighty percent of them had all their symptoms disappear. Wow.

2:14:46 Yeah, wow. The last word is kind of tear. Whoop. What would you want? Your parting words on this episode to be? Just please learn as much as you can about all this. There's so many people even if you're not on the drug. So there's somebody around you this and they did. So, They need to know the truth. And they need to understand the science behind it so that they know how to overcome the effects of the drugs, right? These things accumulate in brain tissue and stay there for quite some time, right?

2:15:37 So I'd say go to drug awareness dot org and get all the information you can. I should say read my book. Yes, please, little bee. It is online on our website at drug awareness. Settlers. Okay. Is that a mountain hard copy again soon? I hope so. Whoa, why don't can they download the book for for a fee? Yeah, that's what I said. It's on our website at direct warning dot org. And how much is that? I don't know. Well, pretty bad, huh?

2:16:18 I think it was like 19 or Something, I don't know. Perfect, tell us the name of the book. Prozac Panacea or Pandora or serotonin nightmare. Okay. I would encourage everyone listen to this to go get those two books though, that's going to shed so much lat. What what it is we're up against now at this point and Blake Tracy. Thank you so much for all the work you do. Thank you. All right, by everybody.