Episode #231: The Books of Enoch Part 1 W/Ken Peterson

0:13 And my man, you're back and we're going to talk about Enoch David. I think the thing I love most, the thing I love most about your podcast, it provides a place for believers or questions about the restored gospel to talk about things that you can't talk about in gospel doctrine. Yeah, not, not not because they're bad. They're just not appropriate. They're not official doctrine. But these questions still exist and they're not bad questions. Certainly. Hugh Nibley showed us all that. So I just, I'm so grateful for you and for the this format to be able to do this. So I'm super excited.

0:57 Well, I'm, I'm thankful you keep coming on, man. I enjoy these conversations because I, my mind's always blown every time and I love that. So. So Enoch is is that in the Apocrypha? Let's for just a second define what we mean by apocrypha. Apocrypha has two meanings. The meaning that most people are familiar with is what is routinely referred to as the biblical Apocrypha. That means there there are 14 books that are included in some Bibles but not included in say, ours. For example, in the Latin Vulgate, you'll see them, they call those the biblical Apocrypha, like the Maccabees and that sort of thing. In a more general sense, any sacred text that is not a part of the Bible can be considered apocryphal or an apocryphal text.

1:54 So like in the terms of my Book Mormon doctrine in the Apocrypha, it's the. Larger your your book Mormonism in the apocrypha the one by Ken Peterson, David did. You find on Amazon that one, is that the book? Get it out of your system now because we're going to refer to it a lot, but this is the largest question. Look, I'm glad I asked that first question, but that was all geared to get us here. Ken, I want you to know how up front, because I love that book so much. I will shamelessly promote that thing any chance I get. But this is good stuff. So. So there's Apocrypha in the Vulgate and out as well. Well, the most popular example of what are now referred to as extra canonical texts. So ancient, ancient authentic sacred texts that are not a part of the Canon are called extra canonical. And the Dead Sea Scrolls is the most famous of extra canonical texts.

2:55 They're not a part of the biblical Apocrypha, the smaller group, but it is apocryphal in the in the much larger sense. So yes, the Books of Enoch are extra canonical. They are not in the biblical Apocrypha and the interesting thing that's been happening with me in terms of my book, which I had hoped would be the case. The initial publication of the book was for me just to map out everything that was out there and everything that correlated with my belief system. And then I could take that book because I couldn't remember it. All right, so it's organized now in terms of subject and just like the topical guide in our in in our Canon of scriptures that we have that topical guide for the extra canonical text is now helping me find additional insights.

3:48 When you look at it all stacked up together and you begin to study these extra canonical texts by topic. And so, so that that has opened the door as you and I have talked and I have various ideas of things that we could discuss is the fruit that has been born of being able to see my book in the aggregate now to be able to see it by subject and the and the insights that come from that. So, yeah, thanks for that question, Dave. So, so, you know, you brought up a couple things, and I have a question about Enoch here before we really dive in, but as Mormons, we shouldn't necessarily be afraid of extra canonical sources, right? If there's any people in the world that should be OK with extra canonical sources, it's us. Right.

4:40 Yeah. Why do you say that, Dave? Because as we look at at what the definition of scripture is in Mormonism, it's different than what it is in a lot of other religions, right? I believe DNC, I can't remember the section, but DNC something says that the definition of scripture is anything that the servants of the Lord say when moved upon by the Holy Ghost, right. That leaves a lot of room for scripture. And now we have a Canon of scripture, which is your quad right, That's that's the Canon. But we should absolutely expect to see scripture from outside the Canon.

5:22 And, and the trick is with this is to judge what is legitimate and what is not right? And, and typically how I've been able to to make that jive is, is I say, how does this hold water against the dispensation head, right? Does this support and bolster what Joseph Smith taught or is this outside of that? Right? And, and even that, I would say we'd have to be a little bit careful on right. You don't want to be too rigid, but I would say that that we should, we should feel empowered as Mormons to be able to look at these extra canonical sources and be able to, to extract what we can out of them and be blessed for that. That's the one of the gifts of the restoration that are afforded to us as adherents of the of the restoration. Well, Amen.

6:15 And all of the Restoration scriptures command us and encourage us to seek knowledge. Well, what did Brigham Young say? Show me a man who knows who's read nothing but the Bible and the Book of Mormon, and I'll show you a man who knows nothing but the Bible and the Book of Mormon. Absolutely then. And then, of course, I was having this discussion years ago. I wanted to read the Christmas story from a new translation of Luke 2. And I had and I had a sister-in-law who was really upset by that. I mean, she was hard line conservative, you know, Mormon. And she was giving me a hard time. My little brother shouted out a Bible of Bible. We already have a Bible.

7:04 Nice day. Well, damn straight. Well played. Well played. So I mean, so that's second Nephi 29, which basically says we're going to have other scriptures come forth and of all and of all people, Latter Day Saints should be looking for that. Now then there's Hugh Nibley, who said that First Enoch, the Book of Enoch is what it's referred to, is a gift for the Latter Day Saints. Yes. And that was before all of the rest of this stuff has come out. And then he said at one time, let's see, entire libraries are coming forth, amazing and confounding Jewish and Christian scholars alike, but bursting with good news for the Latter Day Saints who ignore them completely. And I, and I understand it.

7:54 I get it. Yep. I mean, absolutely. It's enough to be well versed. It's enough of to be well versed in the Old and the New Testaments. But then as Latter Day Saints, we're expected to be equally well versed in the Old Testament, New Testament and the Book of Mormon and the Doctrine and Covenants and the Pearl of great price. And now along comes Ken Peterson and says, oh, hey, here's 66 more for you to look at. 10s of thousands of pages anyway, so. But we want more truth. And Joseph Smith says a man can progress only as fast as he gains knowledge, 100%.

8:38 So as long as my brain will function and help and remember all this stuff, and if I can keep my ducks in a row, I'm going to keep plowing. It might be the same stuff over and over again. Just doesn't do it for me. If you're not moving forward, you're moving backward. You ask me. Absolutely. So I OK, so I got a question. You got the three pictures of the you got the pictures up here of the three books of Enoch. Correct. So are are these all kind of the same book, right? Can could we classify these as all the Ethiopian texts? Like how are they different? Well. You're a little bit ahead of the game, but I'll answer your question. They are completely distinct texts. They are not the same text at all, OK?

9:18 They are were discovered at different times at different places and talk about different aspects of Enoch and Enoch's ministry, OK. And the reason they're, they're numbered sequentially like that, if that's what in terms of the time they were discovered, first Enoch was discovered or rediscovered first, second Enoch after that, and 3rd Enoch was the last to be rediscovered. So we're going to talk about all of that. And I love your question, so keep pounding away, buddy. And so I wanted to throw that up there initially. So people know that when we talk about the Book of Enoch, we need to distinguish which book because we now have 3 extensive and large texts.

10:03 And the good news is that the all three of them could be purchased in the same volume. This volume here, which we're going to read from, which is like a ten 1000 pages. And and it's a highly scholarly respected edition. So you don't have to buy different ones. There are lots of different translations. There's a newer one than what I just showed you but but I'm getting ahead of myself so. No, you're good. Let's talk about Enoch the man first before we dive in here. Oh, look at that. Never mind. We're going to go right there. OK, let's. I'm just going to stop. Ken's got this.

10:43 Let's roll. Enoch who? Right. Who are we talking about in Genesis chapter 5? It gives us the genealogy of those early patriarchs and this is the chapter heading which throws it down really quickly. Generations of Adam are Adam, Seth, Enos, Canaan, Mahalalel, Jared, Enoch who walked with God, Methuselah, Lamech and Noah. And then from Noah we get Hamsheim, Japheth, the population of the earth. So OFT times Enoch is referred to as the 7th from Adam. So that's who that's who he is in terms of his ancestry and where he fits relative to Adam and his posterity. What is the big deal about Enoch? The big deal is at least threefold #1 doctrinally. These books of Enoch have everything to say. It will blow your mind with this. That will be dessert.

11:47 We're just going to plow through it. Or at least highlights for me sequentially. Well, and I'm just going to go 2 places right now. And secondly, it has to do with Joseph Smith in a very, very large way. Because prior to Joseph Smith, the Christian world, what the Christian world knew about Enoch is what we're looking at right here. Enoch is mentioned in three verses in the Holy Bible, period. Any Christian today will tell you he was a minor prophet. So now the Jewish tradition had the same thing, but they also had some, what we call it Jewish traditions about Enoch that we're not commonly known by everyone to be sure. But amongst the more educated, Joseph Smith surprised him immensely and to this day still does. So keep in mind, this is what the Bible knows. What Joseph Smith knows is going to occupy the next dozen slides or so.

12:57 OK. So. So this is what the Bible in the Christian world is. I just want to read this so people who aren't watching can hear it. Go ahead. So. Genesis 522 through 25. Enoch walked with God after the birth of Methuselah, 300 years, and had other sons and daughters. Thus all the days of Enoch were 365 years. Enoch walk with God and he was not before God took him, meaning that he was translated human is right. But that even that's not common knowledge. What does that mean right. Enoch grew off God and God took him. What does that mean? We so there's a massive difference between the Christian view of Enoch and the and the restoration view of Enoch.

13:46 So that we've set the stage for that. Then along comes not one, not 2, but three different accounts of Enoch, all of them after Joseph Smith's revelation on Enoch. OK. I think you've talked about. This. So what is sets up with this? Go ahead. Would Joseph had had? Would would Joseph have had any access to these texts during his ministry? We'll talk about that more that's in in the process. But that's the right question because we've now set up this test of Joseph Smith, which is just as great as test of the book of Abraham stuff we talked about. Do the three accounts, ancient authentic accounts relate to what Joseph Smith gave us or not? So it says marvelous test of the revelatory abilities of Joseph Smith, the Prophet.

14:44 So let's review quickly now what Joseph Smith told us and what he told us about Enoch occupies the book of Moses chapter 6 through 7, which was given to him 8 between 1830 and 1831. So we'd have the the timeline and various sections of the Doctrine and Covenants also mentioned Enoch. What the restored Church knows about Enoch. Enoch holds a prominent place and Latter Day Saints scripture and tradition as a prophet, seer and builder of Zion. In Revelations to Joseph Smith, much additional information is given about Enoch, his knowledge of the sanctifying atonement of Christ. Let's pause.

15:28 Why is that strange? Enoch lived. Yeah, he, he's Genesis time, right? Well, like he's at the very beginning of things, right? He so he's preaching Christ. Joseph Smith said that Enoch preached Christ three years before Christ was born. What other Christian religion on earth teaches such a crazy idea? Nobody. The Restorationists know that Adam was the first Christian, not Christ going on. So let's see additional information. Joseph Smith gave us additional information about Enoch, his knowledge of the atonement of Christ, the visions he saw of the future of the world. Apocalyptic stuff, the messages he proclaimed, the wickedness he opposed, which we'll talk a lot about, the miracles he worked, the priesthood ordinances he performed, and the promises he received from the pre mortal Lord Jesus Christ. That's all crazy talk to the rest of the world. Absolutely.

16:37 So Joseph Smith, so going through Moses six and seven, the Doctrine Covenants, we're going to identify these aspects, how Enoch was called. Enoch was born, and this is taken from the Encyclopedia of Mormonism. He was born in a land of righteousness that they fled to because of the wickedness of the people. An Enoch's father, who was righteous, taught him in all. That's interesting. Well, because we know that Christ did that right? Suddenly. Suddenly, if we know and believe that this Scripture was had amongst the ancient Jews, what Christ did harkening back to what Enoch did would tie, and of course it would cause Joseph.

17:20 I could see, yeah, I could see the rub, right? If you're the Pharisees and you're watching the Savior apply the, you know, the, the, the clay on the blind person's eyes, you know exactly what he's doing. And that's going to that is going that's that's going to punch you where it hurts, right, If you're the Pharisees. So there's so much to this when you see, and how it relates to the restored gospel as well as a New Testament. All right, so Enoch anoints his eyes with clay, he washes them. Whereupon he saw a vision of the spirits that God created. What premortal spirits? Oh, here we go. And things which were not visible to the natural eye.

18:03 The word seer thus applies to Enoch. Enoch's preaching. Enoch then went forth preaching the hills in the high places, ancient in the time of the patriarchs. The righteous fled to the hills of the high places, and the wicked remained at the valleys where they did all this debauchery. But the people took offence and considered him a wild man, as they did John the Baptist. One man named Mahajah. And let's cover this ground now, the Dead Sea Scrolls excerpts of the Book of Enoch, and we'll talk much more about that.

18:43 A similar name, Mahuya Mahawi, was found. So this seems like an extremely lucky strike for Joseph Smith to have pulled Mahajah out of the hat. And Mahajah would ask Enoch who he was and where he came from. Enoch explained his vision of heaven and his understanding of the fall of Adam also straight up build his doctrine. I mean, this is where this comes from for us. He taught how humans after the fall had become carnal and devilish by worshiping Satan, but how according to the plan of salvation, they may repent, become sons of God through the blood of Jesus Christ, the only begotten Son of the man of holiness. So here again, Joseph Smith is doubling down. Enoch was a Christian against whatever all other Christian faiths understand.

19:32 So, so back up just a second. That name, what was it? Mahajan. Previous Mahajah. Thank you. That name appears in the actual Book of Enoch and then Joseph Smith calls it out. But right presumed. Now, and, and we're going to get to this $10,000 question you're alluding to. So then Moses, the book of Moses teaches us that Enoch brought a larger body of converts to the gospel of Jesus Christ, right? But his success did not come without fierce opposition. The enemies of the righteous mobilized against them. The scriptural account describes miracles of extraordinary power.

20:14 By Enoch's words, the earth trembled and the mountains fled, and the rivers of water were turned out of their course, stricken by fear. Now why would he have to resort to such incredible means of protecting his people by moving mountains and changing the courses of rivers? Because Enoch's enemies were not just people, they were the giants of the land that stood afar off. Now these giants were not the same as Goliath. Goliath was well after the flood of Noah, which destroyed all the wicked, including the giants of Enoch's day. We'll talk way more about that, but suffice to say, at this point, the only way Enoch could protect his people from these giants was to move mountains and change its course of rivers, which struck fear in the heart of these incredible giants.

21:05 And that's how he was able to protect his people. Are we going to talk a little later about who these giants were? Yeah, in great detail. OK, I'll, I'll more. Detail than anybody's heard or thought of, probably. All right. And so and the enemies and the and the giants of the land stood far off, and the Lord came and dwelt with his people, the city of Enoch, and they dwelt in righteousness. So Joseph Smith called all of this out. This is all from the book of Moses. Then it taught then that Moses teaches about the city of Enoch. The spiritual unity of Enoch's people took on physical dimensions to the construction of the city that was called the city of holiness, even Zion. Their lives are based on the order of him who was without beginning of days or end of years, the holy priesthood, after the order of the Son of God and after the order of the covenant which God made with Enoch. Same order.

22:05 And that's from the Joseph Smith translation. And of course, which is going to look a lot like the book of Moses because that's where the book of Moses came from. Joseph's work on the Joseph Smith translation. This unique community matured over a period of 365 years, after which it was received up into heaven, fulfilling his covenant to preserve. I wish somebody were keeping a tab. I should have tallied how many of these unique and incredibly bold teachings regarding this unknown prophet, this minor prophet, how many of them he's, he's given us and left behind Enoch, son Methuselah and grandson Lamech. Lamech's son was Noah, and they were left behind so the earth could be redeemed.

22:51 Born four years after the city Enoch, The city of Enoch was taken into heaven. Then we have a council Phoenix visions. Through Joseph Smith, Enoch was shown all the inhabitants of the earth. This is what is commonly known as the vision of all. He was shown the vision of everything. Who else has had that vision that we know of? Moses. Well, Yep, I was going to say Moses was shown it I. Mahan Ryan Maury Ankimer, Brother of Jared. Yeah. Joseph Smith A. 100%. Beyond that, I'm drawing a blank, but at least those three, right?

23:33 Who was the first? Yes, who was the first would have received that? Wouldn't have been Adam. Sorry, what did you say? We don't know that he'd perceived that or not. OK, all right. I could have. OK, so. Far as the sacred documents concerned, Enoch's it Enoch is the first and the only up to this point in time to have received this vision of all to show you how extraordinary person he was in this panoramic, panoramic revelation. He witnessed the wickedness and violence in the days of Noah. He saw Satan laughing with great with a great chain in his hand, saw the Lord weeping over his creations, for mankind had rejected, for mankind had rejected God and become without affection. Enoch saw the atoning sacrifice of Jesus Christ. Enoch himself wept and received a promise that a remnant of his seed should always be found among all nations. Is that fulfilled?

24:34 Most certainly. Finally he saw the joyous reunion of his city, city of Enoch, with a latter day Zion built in anticipation of Jesus second coming. So he seized the Enoch. He had the vision of all according to Joseph Smith. According to Joseph Smith, he also had priesthood described in several passages, and here we have so Enoch is mentioned in our Doctrine and Covenants, sections 7684 and one of seven. He was ordained at age 25 under the hand of Adam himself before his father's.

25:14 His priesthood was after the holiest order of God, holding the key of the mysteries of the Kingdom, which means the the highest ordinances. Even the key of the knowledge of God he had received had been endowed and made those covenants. The Scriptures confirmed that Enoch saw the Lord and walked with him and was before his face continually indicative of Enoch's eternal priesthood station. Heirs of the Celestial Kingdom are described as priests of the Most High after the order of Melchizedek, which was after the order of Enoch, which was after the order of the whole Oly begotten Son.

25:55 So it's all the same order, the holy priest, and after the order of the sun God. And that's all. You find that in Encyclopedia of Mormonism. So if Joseph Smith was simply restoring all of this stuff, and let's just make a grand assumption for the sake of discussion that all of this stuff was known before Joseph Smith, why didn't anybody at Joseph Smith today know anything about any of that? Well, I can think of a couple reasons and you can correct me if I'm wrong here. One, most people hadn't seen the text and the text, and especially in an American context, it was not available with an English translation, to my understanding.

26:42 Right, which we'll get to 2nd. 2nd is that along with that the the the the one if I'm not mistaken, wasn't Enoch in the Vulgate at one point? No, no, no. But I so here's what happened right at one time, we now know at one time they had these records and this is Encyclopedia Mormonism again. The it's called the exit of Enoch. Despite the fact that the author of Jude in the New Testament in verse 9 quotes for his Enoch.

27:24 He quoted from Enoch. So as the Bible quotes from texts that we don't have, which it also give heart to Latter Day Saints who don't believe that the the Canon is closed. It never was, never will be. Anyway, despite the fact that the author of Jude quoted from First Enoch as prophecy and that the Ethiopian Christian Church, they have canonized First Enoch. That's part of their scripture and they were some of the earliest Christians after Christ. They canonized Enoch. In fact, First Enoch or the Book of Enoch was at 1st called Ethiopian Enoch because that's where it was rediscovered. And we'll talk more about that.

28:12 So despite all that, the Books of Enoch fell out of favor in mainstream Judaism and Christianity because in about 8200, they compiled the Mishnah by Rabbi Judah around 8200. And the tendency to den, which had the tendency to denigrate or to talk down apocalypticism, the apocalypse, the end of the world. First, Enoch is apocalyptic because remember, Enoch had the vision of the end of the world #1 so Enoch fell out of favor for that reason because it was denigrated by in the year 200 CE or AD by this official Jewish rabbi. Then with the closing of the Christian Canon around the 4th century, they decided and, and I'm, I'm not the guy who wants to come down on these early church fathers who were trying to decide which of these so-called scriptural texts were valid and which were not.

29:18 Because there were spurious documents and they were doing the right thing trying to determine which ones are valid and which ones were not. Of course they didn't have the whole story. So you know what, what could they do? They did the best they could in that process. They closed the Canon and they excluded the Book of Enoch. What I've heard the reason it was excluded. The New Testament is arranged like this. You have the four gospels, followed by the Acts of the Apostles, followed by the epistles. The epistles arranged by length. The longest ones are first, the shortest ones are last, those very short ones at the end. And Hebrews.

30:02 I don't know why it's thrown in there for whatever reason. And then the last book of the New Testament is the apocalyptic book, the book about the end of the world, the Book of Revelation. When they were determining which apocalyptic book they wanted at the end, apparently First Enoch was being considered alongside the Book of Revelation. But of course, you can only have one apocalyptic book, right? So they settled on Revelation. That I don't have a problem with that. Rejecting Enoch. So Enoch went into the discard pile, they closed the Canon, and as a result of the emergence of the Holy Roman Empire in the 4th century, the Books of Enoch were branded from that time forth as extra canonical outside of the Canon.

30:54 And the veneration once given to the wise scribe Enoch was transferred to or reserved for Jesus Christ. Because Enoch, as Moses and others, was a Christ figure, a prefigurement of Christ. So they fell into disrepute. The remaining copies were lost or destroyed and were not discovered again until the 1700s In in in their full length, which we'll talk about. Where were OK, what we'll talk about later. All right?

31:34 Yep. Let's talk about the larger context now of these extra canonical writings as of this day, As of today, by my count, there are currently over 400 extra canonical texts. They dwarf the Canon of those 400. I have read almost all of them. Some of them are so new that I'm still working my way through that. When my book Mormon Doctrine in the Apocrypha was published in 2021, five years ago there were 354 extra canonical texts that I had read and studied and considered for inclusion into my reference book.

32:21 In the past five years, another 40 or around 40, have been published in English. New one past five years. In the past five years, yeah, that's I think 3 or 4 brand new volumes. I mean when you say. Volume of those. I'm in. I'm reading them now. Here's the one I'm working my way through. If I don't New Testament Apocrypha volume 2, and then there's another volume after that that I'm working my way through. Yeah. And another volume of Old Testament pseudepigrapha. So 3.

33:05 And I mean, and these are big fat volumes. And you can see I'm working my way through. Oh, yeah. So then the question is, are you finding can, are you finding corollaries as well on these new ones? Unquestionably. And the reason I'm working my through my way through it, because it's fascinating #1 #2 I'm going to have to make a second edition of my because of this new new body of literature. So including these new things published in the last five years, there are now over 400 extra canonical texts. Of those, 400, in Ken Peterson's opinion, 100 of those texts have significant correlations with Mormon teachings. 66 I've documented in my book. An additional 30 or 40, I won't know until I'm done, will be added to that body of correlating scriptures. So yeah, I in my by my count, I discovered 179 distinct LDS teachings in 66 of these ancient texts, and there will undoubtedly be more with the second edition if I finish it before Jesus comes.

34:22 If. I'm working on it. Given the state of affairs, it could be tomorrow. I mean like, doubt it, but it could be tomorrow. No, Dave, we unless the two prophets have been secretly prophesying in Jerusalem, which is Yeah, no. Now listen, brother, if come October 2, crazy prophets who can't be killed start prophesying in Jerusalem. 3 1/2 years. 3 1/2 years. Oh, we'll see. We'll see. That's go time. That's go time there. There will be an announcement. It's go time. So among all of these 400 extra canonical texts, and I mean books, big books, some of them are like hundreds of pages. Among these texts are three separate books of Enoch. First Enoch, formerly known as Ethiopian Enoch. Second, Enoch, so also referred to as Slavonic. It has a reference to the the text that was discovered. Third, Enoch is referred to as Hebrew Enoch. They are distinct from one another in content and in Providence, meaning where and how they were discovered. They are not the same books at all. They're.

35:39 Going to similar accounts like not. Really, there's not a lot of overlap. They're they do have some commonality, of course, because they're talking about the same person, but they're talking about different aspects of it. Enoch was about Enoch's life, what he experienced. Second, Enoch has to do more about the process of his translation. It is mind blowing. OK. Third, Enoch talks about what Enoch does after he was translated and after he was resurrected, what he's doing now. OK, all right. So, so as opposed to the Gospel? Yeah. So as opposed to the Gospels, which tend to talk about the same events from a different viewpoint, right.

36:25 That's essentially what the Gospels are. This seems to be 1 narrative telling different parts of Enoch's life. So it's not a retelling. It's not a retelling from a different point of view. This is obviously the. These three texts work together to form a whole. Right. Think. Think of it as a trilogy. Yep and that. And there's sequels of Enoch 1. So why do? Why should Mormons even care about these books? Just to give you an idea how they correlate with our belief system, I have listed here how many times I have referenced these texts in my book.

37:06 Meaning for example, first Enoch is referenced 24 times in Mormon doctrine. In the Apocrypha, that means in first Enoch I found 24 doctrinal correlations with what we believe. Second Enoch is referenced 48 times in my book. Wow. Third Enoch is referenced 29 times. So I said that I found 179 teachings that have been attested in these ancient texts, but they've been attested multiple times by these texts. So there are, and I haven't counted them up, but thousands of attestations amongst these documents. More than just a one off.

37:55 Right, attested multiple times, most of them of these 100 or so extra. So talk about the law of witnesses, right? So these doctrines, these teachings that the Latter Day Saints believe have been attested, I mean in some cases pages and pages, scores of attestation of these 100 or so extra canonical texts that correlate with Mormon teachings, all of them were discovered and translated into English well after the life of Joseph Smith. The one and only possible exception to this is First Enoch Ethiopian, which was first translated into into the English language in England in 1821. So here comes the.

38:45 Text What year? What? What year, What year was, did, did Joseph? Book of Moses, 18301831 So here's Here's what's fun. Here's the question Did Joseph plagiarize First Enoch? The people who are desperate to explain away the hundreds of Joseph Smith's miraculous doctrinal bull's eyes are desperate to claim that Joseph Smith somehow had access to 1st Enoch before 1830, from which he lifted all of these teachings.

39:27 Here's my response. My first response is this argument in and of itself that they're trying to make against Joseph isn't a bald faced admission of the miraculous nature of Joseph Smith's teachings. The fact that people are trying to find some secret spring of how of these miraculous doctrines is an admission that they are miraculous. That Joseph Smith couldn't have. He couldn't possibly have come up with all these bull's eyes by himself. He had to have cheated somehow. Now, to their credit, they're go ahead.

40:10 Look, even if it was in America, I don't know if we have reference if it was in America yet. Oh, we're going to talk about that. OK. Even if it was in America, I'm guessing in 1830 or 31, that's early in the Joseph's ministry, right? Yeah. He's going to have a little bit of a rough time trying to make his way through that. You can see the prophets, you can see the prophets ascension, so to speak, in terms of of not only his growing ability to receive revelation, complex theological ideas and principles. You see that over time that is not something that Joseph gets all at once, right. And so even if it was available in the States, I have a very hard time then coming up with, OK, if it's 1821, then let's say, you know, I'm, I'm just imagining there's not a lot of churches that are requesting the Book of Enoch for their congregants, right?

41:12 A lot of that, damn it is heresy. Yes. So then then you're down to three, you know, maybe dozens of of eclectic individuals who are just out to collect it. Then it somehow has to make its way to Western New York, and then it has to make its way to a poor farm boy who, quite frankly, his family doesn't have two pennies to rub together, and he's going to acquire that. Then he's going to go ahead, stash it, and then go ahead and start the plagiarism process. Yeah. Just just watching like logically follow that out, it brings every step of the way. But how else could he possibly have done that, Dave, Unless he was telling the unless he was telling the truth, right? Right.

42:04 Now, here's the thing. As you say, the Restoration expanded line upon line. On the one hand, I agree with you. On the other hand, by 1831, the Book of Mormon and the Book of Moses have been published. There are two significant problems with that accusation against Joseph Smith #1 Of the 179 LDS teachings I found in 66 of the extraconic canonical texts, only a small percentage correlate with First Enoch alone. So even if, for the sake of argument, that Joseph Smith secretly had First Enoch, it accounts for one percent, 2% of the restored doctrines, 2%. That's it.

43:01 Even if that were true, even if we're true, however #2 even, as we shall see, as and as you pointed out, it's a stretch, to say the least, that Joseph had any access to an English translation of First Enoch before 1830. There was a knowledge of its existence. But the very first English translation in its entirety was 1821 in England. Now this is interesting. There was a master's student desperate to prove this point that Joseph cheated and plagiarized. And then notorious ex Mormon Michael Quinn, who is now dead, who a very respectable scholar and has done some wonderful significant works. And to his credit, he was excommunicated. He came out of the closet, Even so was a true believer right until the point of his right, up until he died, even though he'd come out of the closet and had been excommunicated, he believed that it was divine.

44:13 He believed in the Restoration, and people forget that. So Michael Quinn noted that Lawrence's Lawrence was the translator in 1821 in England. Lawrence's Book of Enoch had another printing in 1828. Michael Quinn says only one copy of the 1828 imprint now survives, and it is in the New York Public Library, according to his source. So the contention is that First Enoch was available in the Public Library in New York City in 1828.

44:54 Now what I'm quoting here is from a guy named Colby Townsend, who's a contemporary of you and I. He's a non latter day St. But he has taken up this cause of trying to prove that Joseph Smith did was clearly, he acknowledges that what Joseph Smith did was extraordinary, but he, his faith will not allow or his lack of faith will not allow him to believe that Joseph Smith had divine help. So he's, he's beating the same drum that Joseph Smith cheated. So he's investigating this. And this is from the dialogue journal, Doc from the Mormon Dialogue Journal.

45:41 They published him because I mean, it was unbiased research that he was giving us. I can no longer say that he's unbiased. He's doing gradual work now, and I have directly and indirectly crossed paths with him and refuted some of what he said on Facebook. His knowledge is incomplete, but it is interesting. So here's what he discovered about that erroneous 1828 printing. He says 1 might expect to be able to locate this copy in the New York Public Library, he says, but it does not exist. The Manuscripts, Archives and Rare Books Division does not have any record of ever having an 1828 printing of Lawrence's Book of Enoch.

46:35 Nor is it the case that the New York Public Library ever had a copy of an 1828 printing of the Book of Eating Book of Enoch and then later removed it from their holdings because a catalog published in 1928 by the library specifically listed their holdings in Ethiopic and Amerik up to that year. In this catalog there are two entries on page 42 about the Book of Enoch that were printed in 18381 was in the original Ethiopia and the other was in English. The National Union Catalog only lists one version of the 1838 the English edition of the Book of Enoch.

47:20 It is possible that the second Ethiopic edition of Lawrence's Book of Enoch was mistakenly marked as the 1828 entry in the catalog, because there is no evidence that an 1828 printing ever existed outside of the catalog itself. Unfortunately, Quinn's discovery only leads to a dead end, so they're out of. They're out of options. They're out of. Options, right? So the assumption is that, aha, there was an 1828 edition there, that that edition is fiction. It's actually an 1838 edition. There is no record even in England, of an 1828 printing. There's an 1821 printing and an 1838 printing, and there is no evidence of any of those copies anywhere in the United States until 1838. Which is 7 years after Moses is out too late. Yeah, too late.

48:18 So that's got to drive a guy like that nuts though, right? I mean, like, that's got to drive a guy nuts like that, that wants to disprove it, thinks he's got him and then done. But here's here's the interesting thing, And I it's kind of a a litmus test of a person's face. Is it easier to believe that Joseph Smith was telling the truth or that he had some secret access? And he would have had to have secret access to, oh, gosh, the Book of Enoch, the Pista Sophia, I mean, to get those an ancient Egyptian texts that would give us some detail of those temple rites. Oh, and then he would have had to have some ancient secret access to the annals of the ancient Americans and everything that they did, since he was 97% correct thus far regarding their anthropology and archaeology.

49:20 And it goes on and on. And at a certain point, see, I, I, let me finish. I, I can, I sympathize. No, I empathize with Colby Townsend and others because that's how my brain works. Certainly there has to be a conventional explanation of how he did this, but at a certain point, the evidence in favor of his divine claims becomes so overwhelming that even a doubting Thomas like Ken Peterson has to believe. And I can't deny it. And it's it's still boggles my mind.

50:02 It's very interesting, you were going to say. You know, as as a convert to Mormonism, like I was a reluctant Mormon at the beginning, right? Those people are weird. I don't want to do this. But when you start stacking evidence right time after time after time, and this is my big critique, I guess of of some scholarship is that when they're out of options, they don't even say I don't know, right? I can, I can accept, I don't know, it's OK, right? But they do the one thing that scholars say you shouldn't do, which is they begin to put together kind of, for lack of a better term, half assed theories, right? They're like, well, maybe he got it from somewhere, right? Instead of, you know, Occam's razor. The simplest answer is probably.

51:03 The right one. Right. And I know it's painful, and I know it's got to stink for the critics, but at some point, when's it enough? The funny thing is, though, right at what? For some critics. For some critics, Occam's Razor doesn't stink and they joyfully become converted. That has happened. Right. To many people do you and I for example, right. And so I and I, you know, and I have read accounts of people who say, well, eventually we'll find the record that explains how he did that. And they're not mean people. They're not bad people. It's just, it's like this litmus test of are they prone to be able to believe in God and divine beings and divine purpose or I mean, it's very interesting to me how that happens. So these books of Enoch, these extra canonical texts fall into a couple of different categories. Some of them are called New Testament apocrypha. So they're ancient texts that are relative to the New Testament that are not in the New Testament. Pseudepigrapha are non canonical extra canonical texts that have to do with the Old Testament peoples and Old Testament times. The books of Enoch fall into this category. Pseudepigrapha.

52:30 A lot of people make have a mistaken assumption about what pseudepigraphy is. So from Wikipedia, pseudepigraphy covers the false ascription of names of authors to works. Here's A and so they stop right there. Oh, it's called the Book of Enoch, but it really isn't because it's pseudepigrapha. Because Enoch didn't write this. But they they don't read the rest of the definition, even to authentic works that make no such claim within their text. Thus, A widely accepted but incorrect attribution of authorship may make a completely authentic text pseudepigrapho pseudepigraphical. Which is to say, we know that even the most ancient manuscript of first Enoch that we have does not coincide with Enoch's lifetime. It's not the text that Enoch himself wrote. The word for that is UR text.

53:32 The UR text is the original document. So the document that do we do have, we'll talk more about that which is very ancient, is not the UR text. And because it's not the original document and we know it's not the same age as Enoch, it can't be the one that he wrote. So we call it pseudepigrapha. So in the same sense that your copy of the book of Matthew is pseudepigraphic because the one you have, he didn't write it. So in other words, pseudepigrapher are not necessarily false works which some people make.

54:13 There are, I have to tell you, there are people in this world who love to jump to the conclusions that all of these extra canonical writings should be thrown out of the window because they're not true when they're irrelevant. It's this litmus test again, the people who are more comfortable throwing them out the window than examining them at all. I have a dear friend who's a pastor and a member of his congregation was formerly A Latter Day St. from Las Vegas and he left the church and lived this sinful, riotous life and found Jesus again through evangelical Christianity.

55:02 Then he stumbles across my book, which if the the over and under of my book is that it's evidence that Joel Smith was telling the truth. I mean, period. In any case, he tells this pastor friend of mine, he says, I'd like to meet the author. And my pastor says, oh, I know that guy. So we set up a meeting, I take time out of my busy schedule and I sit down with this guy for an hour or so who had read my book, who was an ex Mormon, only to find out that all he want now I was expecting an exciting fruitful conversation. You know like we have. What this guy said wanted to visit with me about was to to my face discount my life's work so that he can feel better about his life's choices. Oh geez.

55:53 I'm not an angry person and that's one of the few times in my life I became quite angry. She could have put that in an e-mail. Well, what? I said, I said, wait a minute, are you telling me that you wanted to sit down with the author of this book so you could discredit, try and discredit the whole book to his face? I said, and usually what I bring, I mean, everybody knows that Dead Sea Scrolls are authentic. We found them in situ. We know what they are. We know where they came from. We know who wrote them for the most part. I said, so you're telling me you discount the Dead Sea Scrolls? And he started Hemming in high is the what about all the anachronisms of the Book of Mormon? I said, dude, your archaeology is 50 years late, right? He said, bottom line, 97% of the Book of Mormon has been authenticated in terms of its archaeological and anthropological claims.

56:47 You need to catch up. And I I let him have it and I was mad for a week. Anyway, blame you. Anyway, so that's the idea. Some people are just they they want to cast it aside because they can't conscience the fact that it might be true anyway. Indeed, most of the theological. Stakes are massive, right? I mean, look, Oh, yeah, this is where, this is where I, I take a stance with, with Joseph Smith here. That makes some people uncomfortable, right? They'll say, well, we don't worship Joseph Smith. You're right, we don't, we shouldn't. However, let's not kid ourselves for a minute that much of the restoration and its veracity lies on Joseph's prophetic ability.

57:37 And if that prophetic ability seems to hold water, it threatens all sorts of sacred cows in theology, and people have to contend with that. And so, yes, I agree, we don't worship Joseph Smith. We shouldn't worship Joseph Smith, But we better pay attention to what he has to say, because he's been right way more than he's been wrong. Richard Lyman Bushman, award-winning author of Rough Stone Rolling in his preface characterized what we're discussing this way. He says everything about Joseph Smith matters to people who have built their lives on his teachings. To protect their own deepest commitments, believers want to shield the prophet's reputation.

58:21 On the other hand, people have broken away from Mormonism and they produce a large amount of scholarship have to justify their decision to leave. They cannot countenance evidence of divine inspiration in his teachings without catching themselves in a disastrous error. That's why. That's why the debate is so intense among both members. In anti Mormons anyway. Very interesting. So pseudepigrapha are not necessarily false work. Indeed most are. Most really are of ancient origin, despite the obvious fact that said ancient manuscripts do not date to the attributed authors time period. Just because the text is not the UR text does not mean it lacks authenticity.

59:10 It doesn't mean it's not true. It's just like, in fact, let's call what it is of all the Canon from Genesis to Revelation, we don't have the ertext of any of it. Not even close. Correct. So in that sense, they're all pseudo graphic anyway. Yep. So let's talk about what these individual documents are, where they came from. So this is the bibliography where the 1st that I and I've, I've read different translations, but the one that we're going to talk read tonight is James Charlesworth in the Old Testament pseudo printed for volume one.

59:55 They can't. You can buy them volume 1 and volume 2. And now there's volume 3 and 4, an ancient text ascribed to Enoch of the Old Testament, scholars estimate. The older sections of this text date from as early as 300 BC. The the ancient texts. The earliest texts of First Enoch predate Christ as the text was in use in pre Christian era Qumran, but we'll talk more about that. First Enoch was easier, used to be much easier to discount for people who were inclined to do so because the earliest manuscript we had of it dated to the late medieval to the 14th, 15th century.

1:00:39 So that was the between 14th and 16th century, no 15th and 17th century, the 14th, 1400 to 1600, which is not that old until 19th until 1948, when in Cave 4IN Qumran they discovered fragmentary the fragments of First Enoch. Anyway, the complete text only exists in Ethiopia, the Gia's language, with fragments in Aramaic from the Dead Sea Scrolls and a few fragments in Greek and Latin. Although First Enoch played an important role in early Christianity, it fell into disfavor in the 4th century and was essentially lost to the Christian world until its rediscovery in the Ethiopic in 1773.

1:01:31 The Scotsman by the name of James Bruce went on an adventure to Ethiopia and found them and brought them back with him, and it and it remained untranslated until 1821. In its completion. Second Enoch from the same Old Testament of Sederburg for volume One, another ancient text ascribed to Enoch of the Old Testament. The dating of Second Enoch varies between the 1st and the 2nd between the 1st century BC and the 9th century of the Common Era. The only manuscripts that exist for Second Enoch are in Slavonic, although it has been hypothesized that its original language is Greek.

1:02:15 With Uber sources it would have to be if it were from the first. Where does the Slavonic language come from? It's a think of it as a Slavic languages. We'll read more about that. It wasn't rediscovered or nor published until the end of the 19th century. Second Enoch is distinct from First Enoch, and there's an unrelated 13. Second Enoch, also known as the Secrets of Enoch, was rediscovered at the end of the 19th century when a scholar Sokolov discovered the full text in Church Slavonic manuscripts within the Belgrade Public Library like a Protoslavic, around 1886.

1:02:57 Previously lost for centuries, it is distinct from First Enoch and exists primarily in Slavonic. There are some later Coptic fragments that were found in 1963. Again, the Law of Witnesses coming in 3rd Enoch from the same volume is the alleged account of how Rabbi Ishmael, who is a real historic person, was taken into heaven and saw God's throne just like Enoch did. Third Enoch also states that Rabbi Ishmael was taught by an Archangel who called himself Metatron. Metatron identifies himself as hey, I'm Enoch, I'm the resurrected Enoch now serving God. OK?

1:03:42 And we're shown the heavens. And that's how we learned about what happened to Enoch after his translation. The original language of Third Enoch is Hebrew. It is attributed to Rabbi Ishnell, a revered Palestinian scholar. He wasn't Palestinian politically, he lived in Palestine region who died shortly before AD 132, very early. Although parts of Third Enoch are rooted in the 1st century or earlier, and although estimates of the date of its the final redaction of what we have very scholars believe the final redaction to have occurred in the 5th or the 6th century.

1:04:22 It doesn't mean that's where it came from, but that's when it was all put together. It was not discovered in a single archaeological dig, but rather identified through scholarly study of Jewish mystical traditions. It was curated into a critical edition in 1928, with the oldest text dating around dating to around 1650. So that's. Those Jewish mystical traditions, are they talking about like Kabbalah and that sort of stuff? I suppose so it not necessarily the Kabbalah itself, but it's kind of that same what what we, what would we call it? I don't know apocryphal Jewish traditions. OK.

1:05:03 All right. But but the fact that it's talking about a true historic figure who most likely wrote of his account, this Rabbi Ishmael, lends to its credibility. Ultimately, for me, what lends to its credibility and which lends to the credibility of the other 66 ancient texts I include in my book, is the fact that they teach restored doctrine unmistakably. How do you write that off? Oh, it just happens to say what Joseph Smith thought. Oh, I'm sure it was just a coincidence. Time after time after time after time. All right, so those are the three accounts then, in 194811 Aramaic language. Fragments of the Book of Enoch were found in K4 of Qumran in 1948 and are in the care of the Israel Antiquities Authority. The documents are white or cream in color, blackened in areas, and made of leather that was smooth, thick, and stiff. They were also partly damaged, with the ink blurred and faint. These fragments constitute the most ancient Enoch text we have. Which means the the historical veracity. It sounds like it's been established, right? We're finding where people have made translations of these hanging out in libraries, and then they find these in the Dead Sea Scrolls, they find other fragments, and they seem to correspond with what the later

1:06:36 translations seem to bear out, right? Yes, these so even though that's what was found in the Dead Sea Scrolls as highly fragmented, these are the chapters from Qumran the the chapters from first Enoch that were found in the Dead Sea Scrolls chapters 1/6 through 912 through 1730 through 333676 through 82868991 through 93 and one O 6 through one O 7. So almost the entirety. Right. Which to me is miraculous. To me it shows us what that the people in Qumran, 3 centuries before Christ, had the Book of Enoch in its entirety.

1:07:28 Now some people are confused, thinking that the Book of Enoch fragments are a different book than first Enoch. They're not some people because they come in different fragments. There's a part that talks about the giants, then we've heard the Dead Sea Scrolls section that talks about giants as the Book of the Giants. You can call it what you want. It's still First Enoch. It's the same thing got you. You can even, you can even buy one of the more recent translations of First Enoch that incorporates the slight variations from the Dead Sea Scrolls into that. That's something that I would like to do in my spare time. Yeah, no, that would be a great a great. Team there.

1:08:11 I mean the Dead Sea Scrolls, the most consequential scriptural find in our in in in modern history. Absolutely. Showing that the claims of the naysayers that the old test when the new test, when all these teachings are just very recent constructs. You know, a first Enoch was made-up by these people in Ethiopia. Nope. They belong to a very ancient scriptural tradition. They are authentic. So this is the the book that we're going to read from regarding these teachings from first, second and third. Enoch, is it OK if we take a bathroom break first? Please do.

1:08:56 Yeah, let's do that. Let me just hit pause here real quick. OK. OK, so this this text we're looking at here, this is the actual text of First Enoch, right? That is correct. This is First Enoch chapter 6 over here in the margins to see verses 1 and 2. I'm not just going to present some of my favorite things from First Enoch and then second, Third Enoch. Eventually, First Enoch occupies itself primarily at the beginning with describing the conditions that brought about Noah's flood. So this is First Enoch chapter 6 and it's giving us additional to detail to Genesis chapter 6 one through 6. So reading verse one, in those days when the children of man had multiplied, it happened that they were born unto them, handsome and beautiful daughters. And the angels, the children of heaven, also known as the watchers, saw them, these women, and desired them. And they said to one another, come, let us choose wives for ourselves from among the daughters of man and bigot us children.

1:10:17 We're going to discuss more about who in the heck are they? What did they think they were doing so? Can, can can I just interject something right here? Just kind of a connection that popped out popped up in my head for me. This looks like they're almost trying to be God the Father, right? They want sire children who I can only imagine they're thinking could be Christ type figures. Not Christ like, but Christ type in terms of being both mortal and divine. Don't know if that's the case, but I couldn't help but wonder here if that's what those angels thoughts were usurping some sort of level of authority.

1:11:11 They were an authority they had. As you will see, they had no interest in salvation at all. Their role as watchers. Wikipedia describes them as a type of biblical Angel. The word is related to the root meaning to be awake. It occurs of both plural and singular forms. In the book of Daniel, the word watchers itself, where reference is made to the holiness of the beings, the apocryphal books of Enoch refer to both good and bad watchers, with a primary focus on the rebellious ones. So their job, their assignment, was to observe and report, which Latter Day Saints should be familiar with that role, to observe and to report.

1:11:56 So clearly these were beings who were in authority to do what they were supposed to do. And the Book of Enoch talks about what order they belong to and what they were thinking and that sort of thing. And they were good ones and rebellious ones. So we already know that they weren't, what, celestial. Yeah, they were immortal. All right, let's go on Chapter 7. Let's read this paragraph verses. Oops, one through 6. And they took wives unto themselves, and everyone respectively chose one woman for himself, these watchers. And they began to go unto them.

1:12:45 And they taught them magical medicine, incantations, the cutting of roots, taught them about plants. And the women became pregnant and gave birth to great giants whose heights were 300 cubits. That's that's not Goliath size, that's massive. These giants consumed the produce of all the people until the people detested feeding them. So the giants turned against the people in order to eat them. And they, the giants, began to sin against birds, wild beasts, reptiles and fish, meaning to eat them also, right? And their flesh was devoured, the one by the other, and they drank the blood.

1:13:40 That should ring massive alarm bells for students of the Book of Mormon. Yeah, absolutely. At the end of the Book of Mormon where where the Nephites really fall into depravity. Is it a coincidence? Yes. Is it a coincidence that that would happen just before their destruction? No. Well, no, it's not coincidence. I'm agreeing with you. The ultimate sin that mankind can commit is the Mahan principle, committing murder to get gain, and in this case to actually feast upon the flesh of God's children, of the very purpose of God's.

1:14:25 This is my work and my glory to bring to pass immortality of immortality in your life of man, which you are now eating. It is the ultimate sign of depravity. And that's what these giants were doing in a very, very big way, because their appetites were insatiable. And it goes on elsewhere in the text to say that there was no escape from these giants, except for whom Enoch got his people and how by moving mountain. Triggers. The power of only the power of God could protect them from these giants. Now a lot of people say, oh, the giants weren't real, That's just fantasy.

1:15:12 The problem for Latter Day Saints is it is confirmed in the book of Moses and restored scripture. These giants were genuine. They were real. They were malicious. They wanted to destroy the city of Enoch and his people, and only Enoch in the power of God could save them. So what about the rest of the people? The only thing, the only thing that could save the plan of salvation at this point was Noah's flood. Right. A reboot because of this? What's the $10,000? And, and it does add some context that that, you know, we're in Genesis that the world was filled with violence, right?

1:16:01 And I can only imagine that like the if they were as big as what it says it would, it would the, the, the ecosystem would have a hard time keeping up. Of course. So the $10,000 question has to be what was wrong with God? Where was God? How could you let this happen When we discovered, well, my answer part of earth's destiny was to receive baptism, to be cleansed by water. In order for the world to be destroyed by a flood, to be submerged. There had to be justification for that. That justification was to preserve the plan of salvation, or in other words, the existence of mankind, God's children. The only way to completely eradicate the giants, who, according to First Enoch, would have haunted and killed all mankind, thus destroying and frustrating the plan of salvation, was to cleanse the whole world with a flood, thus preserving mankind and rebooting the plan of salvation. In summary, in the foreknowledge of God, the watchers and the giants became the catalysts for the cleansing of the earth by water.

1:17:27 And so it is with the plan of salvation throughout. Wicked is not only allowed, it becomes a means to fulfilling the plan of salvation. That last, not this one, but the one before, I'm still, I'm still contemplating the theological significance of that, because these angels have physical bodies. Yeah, we're not done with them yet. OK, I'll I'll wait. I'll I'll, I'll wait on that. Let let's let's hold off on that thought. I'll let you let you cook a little bit here and tell me when. You're done with the. With the walk with with those angels, because I I guess we have stuff.

1:18:08 As Latter Day Saints, how do these fallen watchers fit into our belief system? How does that work? That doesn't sound like Celestial Kingdom. Sure doesn't. All right, skipping now to page 20 talking about Enoch's vision. That's what I'm reading here. And I kept coming into heaven. Enoch is speaking until I approached a wall which was built of white marble and surrounded by tongues of fire. So when the brother of Jared gave molten glass so that the finger of the preborder Messiah could touch them and turn them into what white 16 stones that would produce light, two of which later became the Urim and Thummim to the people in the Book of Mormon, what we're talking about is purified matter, that when the finger of the Lord touches normal matter, it purifies it and makes it luminous. The ancient word for that was called Zohar, and the the Jewish tradition is a wind that talks about the windows that were in Noah's ark.

1:19:33 It was a mistranslation of Urim and Thummim. That's interesting. Because the Book of Ether says that the Jaredites built their barges like the Ark. How would they know? Because their ancestor just got off the Ark. They remember the Ark. Not only that, they remember how the Ark was illuminated. They would know that. So where did the brother of Jared get the idea to make these lighted stones from the tradition? From Noah, OK. Now, yeah, I this is nibbly talking here through me, but there was Zohar, right? Any of this gives us a sense and and in the Doctrine and Covenant section 130, it tells us about the destiny of this world that would become a great Urim and Thummim, a sea of glass and fire.

1:20:31 It will become purified matter, otherwise known as crystal. We would call it the glows. Now here we have Enoch describing coming into the celestial. I see white marble surrounded by tongues of fire, also translated as pillars of fire. And it began to frighten me. And I came into the tongues of fire, quoting Enoch here, and drew near to the great house which was built of Yerman Thelma purified matter, white marble. And the inner walls were like mosaics of white marble, the floor of crystal, and the ceiling like the path of the stars and the lightnings between which stood fiery cherubim and their heaven of water.

1:21:27 The cherubim are known for having flight, and the angels are sometimes depicted as having figurative wings, showing that they can fly. The wings on the cherubim are apparently literal wings because as they sit on top of the Ark of the Covenant, the mercy seat, the wings. The outstretched wings of the cherubim form the chair part of it, and the cherubim, as we will read elsewhere in the books of eunuch, would sometimes transport the Savior himself on their shoulders. So they're they're not humans, but they are celestial. Not only do they participate in, but they assist directly God the Father and the Son in the enacting of this great plan. Interesting, so there's a different species of celestial being?

1:22:23 Should should Latter Day Saints be surprised by that? No, because Joseph Smith taught that very thing. The Book of Revelation teaches that for us to presume that humanoids are the only ones that have celestial existence is ignorant. I like it's blind. And the fact that or if you assume that we're the only intelligent celestial beings is also short sighted. Consider the possibilities. All right, so the ceiling like the path of the stars and lightnings between which stood fiery cherubim and their heaven of water that it was like they were swimming there. And flaming fire surrounded the walls and its gates. While you enter and exit that space. We're like burning fire.

1:23:15 The purpose of the tongues of fire, purpose of the pillars of fire to transport beautiful thing. All right, let's go on. Is your mind blown yet? My every time. I yeah, a little. Bit I got I got some serious questions because because a few of these carry some pretty heavy theological ramifications if if I'm understanding them correctly. Continuing on in chapter 14, Enoch speaking and I observed and saw inside this room a lofty throne. Its appearance was like crystals. Surprise, surprise. And it's wheels like the shining sun whenever I I have the Ezekiel's wheels in the Old Testament, and wheels are discussed here.

1:24:07 Ken Peterson now interprets that to mean orbits. Interesting. And it's wheels, like the signing, the like the shining sun. And I heard the voice of the Cherubim. Cherubim apparently are great singers. And from beneath the throne the Cherubim are always singing and celebrating the throne. Praising. Yes, from beneath the throne we're issuing streams of flaming fire, more pillars of light. It was difficult to look at it, and the great glory was sitting upon it. As for his gown, which was shining more brightly than the sun, shining glorious garments, and it was whiter than any snow, but that sounds like Doctrine and Covenants. 110 None of the angels was able to come in and see the face of the excellent and the glorious. 1 And no one of the flesh can see him.

1:25:07 Why they would be consumed. The flaming fire was round about him, and a great fire stood before him. No one could come nearer to him from among those that surrounded the 10s of millions that stood before him. He needed no counsel, but the most holy ones who are near to him neither go far away at night nor move away from him. So he has counsel. He doesn't need it, but he does have counsel. So that's just the order. Hey I want to dive into something. Just a second, let me finish this spot because I want to hear your question. Sorry.

1:25:50 It's not a bad, It's so exciting. The expansive vision of this is mind blowing for 21st century idiots like me and you. But they're describing this 2300 years ago at least. Possibly 4005 thousand years ago because it was given in vision. OK, your turn. OK, you, you said something interesting you said when you read wheels now, like in this context, you think of orbits. OK, OK, So when you say when when it says that the throne had the appearance like crystal and its orbits like that of the shining sun, what's that saying there Is that saying that there's that that planets move around the throne of God?

1:26:41 Is that meaning that that the Lord himself on wherever he dwells is wrote like what, what, what's, what are the implications of that? That's a wonderful question. Just one reason I just one of the reasons I like you. So this, the genesis of this idea for me comes from the Dead Sea Scrolls, which gives us incredible description of this same vision, only it's a little more detailed than this even. And it describes this throne room like Grand Central Station, and it describes these gates, these fiery gates that there are servants, angelic beings constantly is the word that is used going to and fro going in and out of these gates as they serve the wheels of the chariot. So in other they're being transported from the throne of God to these various worlds in different orbits to enact the plan of salvation throughout the Kingdom of God, if that makes sense.

1:27:59 Now here's the other question. Here's the other thing. Doctrine Covenant section 88 describes where the throne of God is relative to the rest of creation, and the wording is he is in the midst, He's in the middle of creation. So from where God dwells, and with of course His almighty power, he sees all of creation laid out before him in these orbits, these wheels. That is that even that has some profound implications, right? Because as human beings we tend to set God apart from us, right? So so he's he's there he's he's he's the way now according to DNC 88, he is in the middle of it. He is he is an active participant. He has not simply the God of the deists that wind it up and then watch it run, right He is.

1:29:04 He is in the middle of his creation. So so you think he's in the middle, surrounded by his creations, and suddenly it makes a lot the the symbolism of the true order of prayer becomes much more significant. Yeah, I didn't even think about that. That is fascinating. And when Lehi talks about the throne of God being surrounded by numberless concourses of angels, he's in the middle. Now, when you put that together with the Kolob Theorem, this book that tries to place God cosmologically and astronomically in a physical location in space, which they say is the center of the Milky Way. And from the center you would be able to see all of creation if you had the ability and the power to do so, which God clearly does.

1:30:00 You know, that's interesting too, because this is as we look. I'm a guy who believes that if this stuff is true, we should expect to see echoes of it across different civilizations with different ideas, right? Even if they're God's names are different, we should still see an echo. And what I find fascinating about being at the center, you know, the Milky Way. There are so many traditions that say you, you. For whatever reason, Orion's Belt seems to be a pretty big constellation form. Not all of them call them or Orion's Belt, right? Sadly, Orion's belt there. It's in the wrong. It's in the wrong. Direction, right?

1:30:41 But they say, and then and then you, you go through the great rift, right? That is a fascinating concept when we stop to think if the Co-op theorem is correct. And that's where God is hanging out, That's where he lives, that that's the final destination. You go up through that and then down to the center of of the Great Rift, the center of my. Favorite My favorite ancient tradition along these lines since you brought it up is the Lakota Sioux says that when you die, your spirit travels the great Highway which is the Milky Way. And in where we live in August, September, after sunset, the galactic core Sagittarius A is visible to us. And so if I were looking southward would find the Milky Way, I would find Cassiopeia, I would find the swan in the Milky Way and then follow it down to the horizon. If I follow it down to the horizon, you will see it's called the teapot.

1:31:54 And the teapot points to Sagittarius A, which you can't see with the naked eye, but it's the galactic center. But before you get there, the Milky Way has like a little a spur, a split to the right. The Lakota soup tradition says that if you you follow it down, you'll get to where the Great Spirit is. If you take the spur off to the right, you'll end up in oblivion. And the spur is one of the arms, one of the arms of the Milky Way. It's like, wow, that's a coincidence, right? It's yeah, yes, it is. And then the other thing is we don't often get a peek at the mechanics of of the exalted rounds, right.

1:32:35 We don't get to know how it is they get from point A to point B. But here this like if I was to put it into a quasi scientific term, it's some sort of portal, right? I mean it goes it goes from there to to where they need to be. That's how Joseph Smith described it when Morona used it. Yeah. A conduit. Yep. A purpose. And when he, when the conduit formed after Morona, I was done talking to him for second to third time. All three times he could see the other side, he could see heaven. Yep. And his his concise and and very precise description is the best description of a wormhole of our time Hold its.

1:33:24 Space and then and. Then Marona didn't have to get some stupid spaceship, he just walks through a door and ends up in the throne room and the Dead Sea Scrolls describes the other where it went anyway. And then, and then we have the account of the pillar of light that shows up at Joseph's first vision. And yeah, same thing. Right. Same sort of a, a, a theory there. That's fascinating. OK. Well, not only that, these near death experiences when people die, what did they describe? The tunnel of light? What do you think that is? Conduits. Yep, that's how we get around physically and spiritually. Matter still has to be transported one way or another, right?

1:34:05 Anyway, this is so fun. OK, I think it's all I want to say about that one. Then we get back down to back to the subject in chapter 15. So well, I want to take this see how that let's do this a little bit. So God raised Enoch up and said to him said to me with his voice, Enoch is talking Enoch. I then heard, do not fear Enoch, righteous man, scribe of righteousness, come near to me and hear my voice. Now this is what he tells them to tell the watchers, because in in previously the watcher said, Enoch, help us out. God likes you.

1:34:49 You go tell you go plead to God on our behalf because we've done this bad thing. God tells Enoch, tell the watchers of heaven, on whose behalf you have been sent to intercede. It is meet for you, watchers, that you intercede on behalf of man, not man on your behalf. For what reason, watchers, have you abandoned the high hole in eternal heaven and slept with women and defiled yourselves with the daughters of the people, taking wives, acting like the children of the earth, and be getting giant sons?

1:35:29 Surely, you watchers, you used to be Holy, spiritual, the living ones, possessing eternal life or immortality, I would put it, but you have defiled yourselves with women and the blood of the flesh begotten children. You have lusted with the blood of the people like them, producing blood and flesh which die and perish. On that account I have given you wives in order that seeds might be sown upon them and children born by them, so that the deeds that are done upon the earth will not be withheld from you. Indeed you. Then he gives us a clue who they were formally. You were spiritual, having immortality, immortal in all generations of the world.

1:36:17 That is why formerly I did not make wise for you. For the dwelling of the spiritual beings of heaven is heaven. So they were immortal formally. He gave us a clue later. More about that in chapter 16. And yeah, tell them that they should be interceded for you, Enoch, not the other way around. He goes on to Enoch, God says. And so to the watchers on whose behalf you have been sent to intercede, who were formerly in heaven, say to them, you were once in heaven. Now here's the clue. But not all of the mysteries of heaven are open to you.

1:37:01 What? What did he mean by that? I got to mark this again. What are mysteries? Ordinances. But not all the mysteries of heaven are open to you, and you only know the rejected mysteries, the ones you have broadcast to the women in the hardness of your hearts. And by those mysteries the women and men multiply evil deeds. Of what was he? What were they teaching them? Chemistry and physics? How to make stuff? How to do stuff? What does God call those? The rejected mystery. Those are things. Relative to which Kingdom?

1:37:43 The telestial. That's right. So who were these watchers? In my opinion, they were telestials who were serving as watchers. OK. And who allowed to make this anyway? Let's see. Let's finish this. And by the hardness of your hearts and by those rejected mysteries, the women and men multiply evil leads on the earth. Tell them, tell them, Enoch. Tell the watchers. Therefore you will have no peace. Because of what? OK.

1:38:23 What do you think of that? I got some questions here, right? And, and I'm and, and I'm sure you got the answers, but I'm curious. So with the keyless, if they are a keyless, chill people, so to speak, right? They're dwelling in that space. They're immortal, but they don't have the higher ordinances. That means they cannot be celestial. Now how do they then have powers of procreation? Because it isn't the powers of procreation saved for those who who have proven worthy right and received the ordinances.

1:39:06 Wait, where does that teaching, Where does that teaching come from? Hey, it would be inferred based on based on the teachings that that we probably received in Sunday school, to be honest with you, right? And it's inferred. It's inferred because the only place it talks about having seed endlessly is a celestial existence. OK, in section 132 says that that we will bare the souls of men in eternity, right? As as celestials in the highest degree in exalted beings, and that only marriage performed according to section 132 with the proper authority, right? And let having lived worthy of our covenants, will that marriage be honored in the celestial Kingdom. So far so good.

1:40:09 So God says if you do it, if you do it the way I tell you, and you're worthy of that, I. By the authority of my Kingdom will recognize and honor your marriage. What does that not say? Or let me put it this way, Joseph F Smith said the holy priest adapted The order of the Son of God is the only order we know anything about. So what God is saying is it, you know, people can get married in this life, right? Right. By various authorities, whatever they claim state. Does God disallow that marriage on earth?

1:40:50 No. No, He's only saying that I, I because that marriage was not by my authority, I won't recognize it in my Kingdom. Which means of course people are going to have associations in other kingdoms, correct? Right. Yep. Of that I have no doubt. Now here's the other interesting thing about these watchers. They envied men because guess what? They had no children. So in the Telestial, apparently the capacity to create the souls or the spirits of men is limited to the Exalted.

1:41:31 But the ACT. That that's what I'm putting forth as a hypothesis, as a. Supposition. OK, so you're saying that a telestial person can't believe? I'm going to put it this way, but I don't have any. Yeah, they got the junk. Yeah, they got the junk. They're functional. They're they're junk and they're functional, but like so, so are they just burning with desire and they see the women down on earth and like. Let me ask a rich environment, Let me ask you, according to 70, Section 76, what are celestial beings like, by the way? They existed, They're immortal, and they exist in a glory that is beyond our comprehension. But it describes them as those who love and make lies. Even though they're given the Kingdom of glory, and even though they're given immortality, it doesn't mean they're good.

1:42:29 Do you know what I mean? Yep, Yep. And so they would have those desires still, of course, I mean, and then. The The selfish will remain selfish in eternity, just like the devil and his followers. Interesting. But it's also interesting now because something that people have wondered about for a while is once you've been assigned a Kingdom, can you fall from that Kingdom? And that is a scary proposition, right? Well, I mean, my problem with the question is that assumes that the plan of salvation is flawed, that we didn't give enough time to prove ourselves, and so the final judgement was a mistake.

1:43:23 God is omniscient. He's omnipotent. He knows what you will do. He knows what you will do. He's seen it. He sees it. So final judgement. I take that quite literally. You're final. And so, for example, these watchers, they're telestial. Now what happens to them? They can't go any lower than that. Outer darkness only occurs if you reject the atonement. Clearly, they don't do that. I see what you're where you're going, OK. So they're, they're just, they're still telestials. OK. Now here's what's cool. I forget which Enoch it's in, but it describes the telestials of these watchers mourning for these people who did this and how ashamed they are of it.

1:44:12 We'll we'll read some of that. OK, Good question. All right, how I get? So. So according to the Book of Can, these fallen watchers are telestials who don't have access to the higher ordinances because they were not worthy of it. And we're allowed as a catalyst for the flood to screw up on purpose. Wow. Now let's skip to oh, dude, there's so much in here. Skipping to page 26. So we're at chapter 24. At the end of Chapter 24, we're going to go from here. Do they get that all in there?

1:45:03 Almost. So we're talking about he is looking at describing this holy place where he is. And among them there was one tree such as I have never at all smelled, and there is not a single one among those or other trees which is like it. Among all the fragrances nothing could be so fragrant. Its leaves, its flowers, its wood would never wither forever. Its fruit is beautiful and resembles the clustered fruits of a palm tree ringing a bell.

1:45:44 Yet at that moment I said, this is a beautiful tree, beautiful to view, with leaves so handsome blossom, so magnificent in appearance. Then Michael, one of the holy and revered angels, he is their chief, who was with me, responded to me, and he said unto me, so there's this guide, very common figure. Enoch, what is it that you are asking me concerning the fragrance of this tree and you are so inquisitive about? At that moment I answered saying, I'm desirous of knowing everything, which was one of why Enoch was awesome, but especially about this thing. He answered, saying, This tall mountain which you saw, who somewhat resembles the throne of God, is indeed his throne, on which the holy and great Lord, Lord of Glory, the Eternal King, will sit when he descends to visit the earth with goodness.

1:46:35 So he's still on. This is a vision of the earth, and it's glorified. Ah, paradocyical state. And As for this fragrant tree, not a single human being has the authority to touch it until the Great Judgement, when he shall take vengeance on all and conclude everything forever. This is for the righteous and the pious, and the elect will be presented with its fruit for life. What would you call? It a tree of life. It's a tree of life. He will plant it in the direction of the northeast, upon the holy place, in the direction of the House of the Lord and the Eternal King.

1:47:15 Then they shall be glad and rejoice in gladness. They shall enter into the holy place. It's fragrance shall penetrate their bones. Long life will they live on earth, such such as your father's lived in their days. Speaking of Adam, who else knows about the tree of life in that kind of detail? Just us love that. Isn't that a Oh, there's so much this so. There's, there is some way deep temple theology there and I'm not even going to touch it, but for those who've studied those things out, that should really ring a bell, especially where it talks about the judgement and that sort of thing. And then partaking of the fruit which will grant eternal life essentially.

1:48:15 The other thing I love about these these doctrines not only correlate with what we know and believe already, but they give us additional detail, which is so cool. Now chapter 32 describes another tree and the tree of wisdom, which we would call. Knowledge of good and evil. And the tree of wisdom, of which one eats and knows great wisdom, was among them. It looked like the colors of the carob tree, its fruit like the beautiful grape clusters. So instead of being white, terrestrial is a telestial fruit, and the fragrance of this tree travels and reaches afar.

1:49:00 And I said this tree is beautiful, and it's appearance beautiful and pleasant. Then the holy Angel Raphael, who was with me, responded to me and said this very thing is the tree of wisdom from which your old father and aged mother, Adam and Eve, they who are your precursors, ate and came to know wisdom. And consequently their eyes were opened and they realized that they were naked. And so they were expelled from the garden. Interesting. Yeah, it's also good. Now we're going to read. Oh, it taught me.

1:49:43 OK, let's do that 38 Chapter 38 talks about this one. Where will the dwelling of the sinners be and where doing that? And where the resting place of those who denied the name of the Lord of the spirits? Oh, here's the second part of the question is, is the one and where is the resting place of those who denied God, who denied the name of the Lord, who denied Christ? The answer? It would have been better for them not to happen more because they're going to be an outer darkness anyway.

1:50:25 Yep. OK, now I want to skip down to chapter 39 verse 11 which reads this. This is going to fly in the face of the rest of Christianity. There is no such thing as non existence before him. Even the world was created. He knows what is forever and what will be from generation to generation. Not X nila, correct? Not X nila, not out of nothing.

1:51:08 There's no such matter unorganized. There's no such thing as immaterial matter, says Joseph Smith. Oh, there's a lucky 10. Let's skip to chapter 46. Well, let's see how far we want to go here at that place. I saw the one to whom belongs the time before time. Joseph Smith may have explained this when he said God, the Father of us all was once a Christ on his world. The time before time, the previous eternity, the time before our.

1:51:51 OK, Yep. Nope, that makes sense. And his head was like white wool. And there was with him another individual whose face was like that of a human being. And his countless was full of grace, like that of one among the holy angels. And I asked for the one from among the angels who was with who was going with me and who had revealed to me all the secrets regarding the one who was born of human beings. Guy who was translating this didn't know anything about Joseph Smith and the teaching eternities in plural. He's just translating the word and putting it down and hope somebody can make sense of it. Right. And it takes educated louder to say to read this and go, and that's what he's talking about. Who's the prototype of the before time? Who's the prototype of the Father? The Son?

1:52:43 He's the prototype of the before time. And he answered me and said to me, This is the Son of man, TA Dah, to whom belongs righteousness, and with whom belongs righteousness. And he will open all the hidden storerooms. For the Lord of the spirits has chosen him, and he is destined to be victorious before the Lord of the spirits in eternal uprightness. This Son of Man whom you have seen is the one who would remove the kings and the mighty ones when they come from seats and the strong ones from their Thrones. I love that how he it shows the relationship between the Father of the Son in an eternal sense. Absolutely. Oh, that's that's deep. And here, this, this almost feels like these last few don't feel like it's it's, it's groundbreaking as far as new theology, but it is fascinating to see the bull's eyes, right? Yeah, yeah.

1:53:39 Looking towards Christ, the one like unto the Son of man, or the one like unto to God. Yeah, Chapter 51, talking about when people are resurrected in those days of the resurrection, Sheol, the Earth will return all the deposits which she has received. The resurrection. Yeah, that's it. I love. That's just an interesting way to put it. Now let's skip over to chapter 62 and 65. The righteous and elect ones shall be saved on that day, Speaking of the elect, and from thenceforth they shall never see the faces of the sinners and the oppressors.

1:54:28 The Lord of the spirits will abide over them. They shall eat and rest and rise with the Son of Man forever and ever. How does that sound? Yeah, the righteous and elect ones shall rise from the earth and shall cease being of downcast face. They shall wear the garments of glory. These garments of yours shall become these. Speaking to Edith, these garments of yours that you're wearing now because he's been endowed shall become the garments of life from the Lord of Spirits. Neither shall your garments wear out, nor your glory come to an end before the Lord of the Spirits.

1:55:12 The symbolism of the garments he's wearing is it. Those will be the garments of eternal life. To give us pause as Mormons when we think about the garments that we are gifted. Yeah, OK, Now we're starting to talk about the flood. I want to go to here. Chapter 65. In those days, Noah saw the earth, that she had become deformed. I forgot something. Remember the big deal that was made out of the giants? How they drank their blood. Yeah. When that that was a commonly understood teaching by the writers of the New Testament because they had the writings of Enoch.

1:56:05 Remember the scriptures. I don't know exactly which one is where it talks about in the days of Noah and they were eating and drinking and making merry and how horrible that was. I've always read that so I should never eat or drink or make merry. Is that is that? What caused the blood? No, it's about. What they were eating. That phrase is commonly understood euphemism for cannibalism. You know. I can't. Eating the flesh, eating the flesh and drinking the blood of mankind and making merry. That's what that is in reference to. Interestingly enough, Satan being like, say it's not enough for Satan just to go the opposite direction. He's got to take something and twist it and, and, and so like eating the flesh and drinking the blood is also for the sacrament, right?

1:57:08 And there's this. Twisting. There's a the same twisting that we see, right? And look, I'll get, I'll get real. He's the He's the great counterfeit. Yes, exactly. It's, it's a twisting the, the other thing I want to say about this, this is interesting too. And this is going to go beyond Joseph Smith. This is going to go to John Taylor. There's that interesting vision that John Taylor has when he's in the Tabernacle. And then he's the dream starts out in the Tabernacle, and then he sees massive disease in war in America. And the most horrific scene, the most horrific scene is when mothers kill their children to eat their flesh and drink their blood.

1:57:55 Right. Like these ancient things creep back into the modern right, into modernity. And I think that's the most frightening part about it. You know we. Tend to look at ourselves as so advanced, but we are just the veil of the the veneer of civilization is so thin you. Know who else you know who else saw that vision, Enoch? We'll read about it. Saw that same vision almost. OK. All right. So chapter in those days, Noah saw the earth, that she had become deformed, sinful, and that her destruction was at hand.

1:58:36 And Noah took off from there and went on to the extreme ends of the earth. And he cried out to his grandfather. His grandfather was Enoch and said it to him three times with a bitter voice. Hear me, hear me, hear me. Oh, now this. Is how did he know that pattern of prayer? Well, this is interesting too, Ken, because if, if I'm remembering correctly, back at the beginning where we started all this. No, yeah, no, it was, it was Noah that was born, what, five years before?

1:59:18 Five years. He he born five years after they were translated, I think. I should, yeah. I shouldn't have said die. I meant translated. He's doing something interesting here. He's he's essentially praying to his grandfather. Correct. Yeah, well, yeah, says he cried out to his grandfather, but it doesn't say he said hear me, hear me, hear me three times to his grandfather. He could have cried out his grandfather and then engaged in prayer anyway. OK. All right. And I said unto him, Tell me, what is this thing that is being done upon the earth?

2:00:02 For the earth is struggling and in this manner and is being shaken. So something is happening to the earth that's being deformed and shaken. But this part really struck me perhaps. I will perish with her, with the earth in the impact. Are they seeing celestial bodies fall from heaven? That's see that's what struck me and clearly when I, this is I read this at the time I was understanding learning about mass extinction events that have happened previously on this Earth that we know have happened at least four or five times in a very, very big way. And that there have been astronomical killer asteroids strike the Earth hundreds of times. Certainly Noah would be describing this. Certainly he's describing and there are other passages we'll come across at First Enoch that describe the just the flood occurring by this mechanism.

2:01:03 This is interesting too, because if we start looking at incidents that and, and this is the whole reason I'm not a young earth creationist, by the way, there are statements from Joseph Smith that talks about the difference between a world and earth, right? A world is a sphere that is inhabited. OK, so we start looking at events and look, carbon dating is pretty accurate, but it's got some flaws, right? There's a few things in there that that don't quite. It's only good for, it's only good for 10s of thousands of years. It doesn't do that really right. But if we look at like an event like the younger driest period, the younger, the younger driest impact hypothesis, that gets very interesting, especially in connection with the flood, the flood stories that seem to be ubiquitous across the globe. Yep.

2:01:58 Yeah. The end of the Ice Age could well have been the end of the age of the patriarchs. I I think that could be there could be a coincidence there. All right. In those days, the word of God came unto me and said unto me, Noah, your lot has come up before me, a lot without blame, a lot of true love. And this time the angels are working with wood, making an ark. And when it is completed, I shall place my hands upon it and protect it, and the seed of life shall arise from it, and a substitute generation will come so that the earth will not remain empty. I shall strengthen your seed before me forever and ever, as well as the seeds of those who dwell with you.

2:02:44 I shall not put it to trial on the face of the earth, but it shall be blessed. I'll multiply on the earth in the name of the Lord. And they shall imprison those angels who revealed oppression in that burning valley. So they're going to imprison those watchers that fell. It's shown to me in the West among the mounds of gold, silver, arbrozatin. I also saw that valley in which there took place a great turbulence in the stirring of the waters. Now when all this took place, it was produced from that bronze and fire. I smell of silver which blended the waters, etcetera, filled with the Rose of the water shall be punished. Now let's go on from now. I don't. I don't need to read that. Oh, on one second before we go on, there's an interesting piece of information that's transmitted right there. And that is we we, we make the assumption that it's just Noah and his boys working on that ark. But here it says the angels were helping. The book of the book of Adam and Eve say that Noah was given to that.

2:03:46 Noah was translated during this time so that his things wouldn't wear out and he would have the energy to do it, to build, and that he was paying the wicked to build it with jewels. The Lord had provided with all these jewels and gems to pay people to build it. They were building their the ark for Noah. But he also said that there was an Angel who sealed up the ark and who guided the ark and protected the ark through the flood. So clearly there was divine intervention to help save the plan of salvation. Let's see chapter 69 that starts here at the very end. Through their agency, the children of the people, death proceeds.

2:04:34 I wish there wasn't a page break there. Death through their agency because they've chosen evil. Their agency, which that's straight up Mormon doctrine. Death proceeds against the people who dwell upon the earth from that day forevermore. The 4th is named to one of these fallen watchers, who demonstrated to the children of people the bitter in the sweet. Oh. This one demonstrated the children of the people. The bitter in the sweet opposition revealed to them all the secrets of their wisdom. Furthermore, he caused the people to penetrate the secret of writing. They use ink and paper. There are many who have erred from eternity to eternity until this very day.

2:05:20 Anyway, it goes on permanently maintain. For indeed, human beings were not created to be like angels, permanently to maintain fear and righteous life's. Death, which destroys everything, would have not touched them had it not been through their knowledge by which they shall perish. Talking about the tree of knowledge, death is now eating us by means of this power. Oh, here we go. The 5th is then Casadia and he who revealed to the children of the people the various flagellations of all evil, flagellation of the souls and the demons, the smashing of the embryo in the womb, so that I might be crushed. They were doing abortion.

2:06:05 They were taught abortion. That's right. That gave me chills in a bad way. Like, like just, and it should just go to show, and I've said it before, right? There's nothing new about the evil we engage in. It's just simply repackaged for modern consumption. And that shows that the, in my opinion, the most abominable act we commit today. Agreed. Has its origins in a fallen species of of heavenly beings, I mean.

2:06:49 The the the truly wicked yet well, we get to some good stuff. Thus it happened that Thus it happened in the Book of Mormon would read, and it came to pass. And thus it came to pass, yeah. And so it happened. Thus it happened that it came to pass after this that my spirit passed out of sight and descended into the heavens. And I saw the sons of the holy angels walking upon the flame of fire, being transported by the pillar of light. Is not In another word, their garments were white and their overcoats, and the light of their faces was like snow. I love that.

2:07:36 Yep. And down here he carried off my spirit, and I, Enoch was in the heaven of heavens. There I saw in the midst of that light a structure built of crystals like this, and between those crystals tongues of living fire. This thing again in my spirit saw a ring which encircled the structure of fire, and on its four sides were rivers full of living fire which encircled it. Moreover, seraphim, cherubim, and ofanim the sleepless. 1 So here we have 3 celestial creatures serving this plant, serving God, Cherubim. We have descriptions, Seraphim ofum. We don't know as much about who guard the throne of his glory Also encircled it.

2:08:25 And I saw countless angels 100,000 * 100 thousand 10 million * 10 million encircling that house. This is a 4000 year old document talking about numbers at that magnitude. Michael, Raphael, Gabriel Faneuil and numerous other holy angels that are in heaven above go in and out of that house. They are countless with them as the antecedent of time, the before time, The Father. His head is white and pure like wood. His garment is indescribable. I fell on my face, my whole body mollified, and my spirit transformed.

2:09:05 But then I cried with a great voice. By the spirit of the power blessing, glorifying and extolling crying with a great voice is to sing. We'll read about this has a little bit of overlap with third Enoch and those are the blessings which went forth out of my mouth, being well pleasing in the presence of that of the Father. Antecedent of time. Then the antecedent of Time came with Michael Gabriel Raphael Fanwell at 100,000 * 10 million * 100,000 angels that are countless. It's a big book, isn't it? What's that? It's a big book, yes.

2:09:48 It is. We're just in First Scenic. Yeah, no, in respect to their days, the sinners and the winter are cut short. Their seeds shall lag behind in their lands and their fertile and in their fertile fields, and in all their activities upon the earth. He will turn and appear in their time and withhold rain, and the sky shall stand still at that time. Then the vegetables shall slice, talk about famine, and not grow in its season. The fruit shall not be born as proper season. The moon shall alter its order, talking about changing the signs in the heavens.

2:10:35 Oh, this is what I wanted to get to. It's very short. So after viewing all of this, seeing all the wickedness of mankind in chapter 81, Enoch says. And I wept on account of the children of the people upon the earth. There is a coincidence. Right. Now here it comes this other. Because that's in, that's in the Joseph Smith. That's in Moses six and seven. Yeah. Now we get to chapter 83 where Enoch describes more about the flood, the vision where he says, and I saw in a vision the sky being hurled down and snatched and falling upon the earth and went up, fell upon the earth.

2:11:26 I saw the earth being swallowed up into the great abyss, mountains being suspended upon mountains and hills sinking down upon the hills, tall trees being uprooted and thrown and sinking into the deep abyss. Thereupon a word fell into my mouth and I began crying aloud to saying the earth is being destroyed. He's describing the description of the Earth. And impact. As right the sky falling upon the earth, creating a giant crater filling it. Oh, pretty cool stuff.

2:12:06 Skipping to 89. Yes. And again I raised my eyes toward heaven and saw a lofty ceiling with 7 cascading streams upon it, and those cascading streams flowed with much water into one enclosed area. Again I saw and behold fountains were opened upon the ground of that great enclosed area in the water began to swell and rise upon the slows describing the flood. I saw that enclosed area until the whole ground was completely covered with water. Water, darkness and mist accumulated heavily upon it. I looked at the ascent of that water going up and up until it rose above that enclosed area and was streaming above the enclosed area.

2:12:49 Thus I was standing above the ground. Thus it was standing above the ground, and everything that was in the enclosed area, and all those on the ground were gathered together, until I saw them sinking, being swallowed up, and perishing in that water. Yet the boat, so this is the valley where the ark was built, was floating up, floating above the water, though all the cattle, elephants, camels and donkeys were sinking to the bottom that were not on the boat, so I could no longer see any one of the animals. They had no ability to come out, but only to perish and sink at the deep water again. I kept singing the vision until those cascading streams were dissipated from that high ceiling. The fountains of the earth were normalized and other pits were opened, and the water began to descend into them until the ground became visible.

2:13:39 That boat settled upon the earth, the darkness vanished, and it became light. Describing the the waters bursting forth and then eventually receding. That's right and that well, and it talks about the seven streams cascading from the heavens. When and what people don't consider is that the greatest destruction that occurs from a killer asteroid is not the initial strike, but the but the ejecta. Yep. All the mass in the matter that's that's kicked up into the atmosphere and the other thing that we don't really discuss is there have been more killer asteroids strike non land masses than strike land masses. Yep, which would make sense because the earth is way more water than it is land.

2:14:34 Precisely, and especially those that would strike the polar northern polar region, which has no land mass, which is just a giant iceberg. The consequence of that. So consequences of that. I, I think about that a lot. Chapter 98 Describing the last days. You'll like this one now I swear unto you, to the wise and to the foolish. For you shall see many things upon the earth for you, for you, for you. Men in the end shall put on more jewelry than women, and more multi colored ornaments than a virgin.

2:15:17 In sovereignty and grandeur and in authority, and silver and gold and clothing and honor and edibles, they shall be poured out like water. Does that not describe our day? 100% does. For this reason they are devoid of knowledge and wisdom. So they shall perish thereby together with their goods and together with all their glory and honor. Then in dishonor, in slaughter, and in great misery, their spirits shall be cast away. The men will wear more jewelry than the women. I'm like, holy cow, that's just funny. He's describing today. I mean, I just the references to, in my opinion, the reference seems to be kind of transvestism, right? I mean when, when?

2:16:07 You start talking. About more women, you know, wearing more jewelry than than the women, that sort of thing. Multi. Colored ornaments and garbage, yeah. Yeah, I can't help but go there Ken and I might be wrong, but I I have a hard time not making that connection. All right, you're not going to like this one. His vision of the last days. In those days they, the women, shall become pregnant, but they, the sinners, shall come out and abort their infants and cast them out from their midst. And they shall also abandoned their other children, casting their infants out while they are still suckling. They shall neither return to them, their babies, nor have compassion upon their loved ones. Boy, did he see the last days or what? Man, Enoch called it.

2:17:03 OK, I'm going to stop this episode right here. Now. This conversation that Ken and I had, it was 5 hours long. Now, I'm not breaking it up just because of the time. What I'm breaking it up for is that there is so much useful data in in these episodes that I want to make sure I give you, the audience time to digest all this. Make any of the notes you want now. Ken's going to join me next week as we continue on. We finish up the first book of Enoch and then move on to the second and third books of Enoch. And spoiler alert, if you are a fan of the temple and you understand the temple even a little bit, oh boy, do I got some stuff for you next week that I think you're really going to like. And that'll be, like I said, next week Saturday. Until then, thanks for listening and we'll talk to everyone later.

2:17:45 Bye everybody.