Episode #155: Old Testament Series-Noah W/Michael Ness

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Today on the podcast, Michael
Ness joins me again as we

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continue our series on the Old
Testament.

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This episode's going to be all
about Noah.

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Now, for many, the Noah story is
really pretty simple, right?

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God tells Noah to build an ark,
Animals come aboard the ark, it

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rains, it floods, Noah's
family's preserved, and that's

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about it, right?
Well, not so much.

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There are some amazing insights
that can be gleaned from the

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Noah account.
We talk about a lot of them on

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this episode through the account
of Noah.

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During our conversation, we
touch on things such as the

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nature of God, biblical origins,
how the scribes factor in, and

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also how the king, the conflict
between the northern and

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southern kingdoms of Israel
factor into the way that the

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Bible was even compiled at the
end.

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We really stretch your mind when
we start to show you how the

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temple and temple theology is
woven throughout the entire

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story of Noah that much, much
more on this episode of the

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Mormon Renegade Podcast.
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The you're listening to the

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Mormon Renegade podcast.
All right, dude, you're back out

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in Nevada running around doing
your thing.

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How was Nevada?
Oh it was fine.

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It was just just there for work.
Took the opportunity to learn

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some new things.
Wasn't too hard, but anytime you

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get to work with people in the
faith, even if it's the

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monotonous temporal stuff and
all the spiritual stuff, it's

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it's way better.
You know, I remember I had, and

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this was back in my fully LDS
believing days, right?

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Had an opportunity to work on a
temple, couple of them, and that

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was so much better than just
doing subdivisions for

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developers.
No, I I believe that.

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Right.
I mean, you just felt like you

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were doing something a little
more worthwhile than just the

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run-of-the-mill stuff.
So I totally get what you what

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you're talking about.
There, Yeah, I had AI had a job

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offer to work on the Pocatello
temple and I wish I would have

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taken it at the time now, yeah,
you know, I wish I would have

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taken it now, but I didn't.
But.

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Well, it's all right.
I, I, I hear you boys are doing

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stuff.
We're doing stuff.

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So I mean, don't don't don't
think that's just out of the

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question yet.
So well, awesome.

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So we left off last time trying
to think back, where did we

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leave off?
We were still in the Pearl of

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great price, right and the and.
Genesis Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.

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So we left off with our lesson
with Enoch, yes.

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And so, yeah, we're in the Pearl
of great price.

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We're pretty much going to get
out of, well, we're going to

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have to kind of a bridge partly,
you know, we'll do some Pearl,

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the great price, some more
Apocrypha, and just the old

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fashioned book of Genesis for
what we got because we're

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dealing with Noah and the Book
of Moses kind of ends right

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where Noah's introduced,
unfortunately.

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Got you right.
OK, yeah, after 8.

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Done.
Yeah.

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And then, yeah, that's as far as
as far as the book of Moses, you

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know, goes, although Joseph
Smith would add some things, you

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know, into Genesis, but it's not
like additional revelatory

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content except for just changing
a few lines here or there.

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Sure, sure.
Well, dude, that sounds that

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sounds good.
Let's get into it.

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So we left off with the city of
Enoch being translated

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practically in the book The
Beginning of Moses 8 we start

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off with, it came to pass that
Methuselah the son of Enoch was

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not taken, that the covenants of
the Lord might be fulfilled,

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which he made to Enoch.
For he truly covenanted with

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Enoch that Noah should be of the
fruit of his loins.

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And it came to pass that
Methuselah prophesied that from

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his loins should spring all the
kingdoms of the earth through

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Noah, and he took glory unto
himself.

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So yeah, we see in the pearly
great price Enoch during his

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ascension, he is showed visions
of the future.

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He sees Noah, he knows what's
going to happen.

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It's been prophesied.
And so Methuselah is left as a

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remnant, and Methuselah's son is
Lamech, and Lamech's son is

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Noah.
Noah is born four years after

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the city of Enoch was
translated.

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So Lamech was already there.
He was already born and would

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have known Enoch.
And.

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Yeah, all the other patriarchs.
You know, that's that's kind of

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crazy, right, because in, in no
one must have, you know, just

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been raised with these stories,
right, about about Enoch, right.

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And it makes me also wonder, you
know what, what kind of

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influence that was on on Noah.
Right, so he, you have the

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stories, but you'd also, I
believe you know, if these guys

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weren't taken, but the
chronology in the patriarchs

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makes it seem like it's not.
When you do the graphs and you

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can see it, the time, the
lifespan.

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Noah would have known Enos, son
of Seth, grandson of Adam for

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100 years or so of his life or
whatever.

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I don't have that figure but he
would have known first hand his

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5th 6th great grandpa because
Noah's Noah's 10 so it'd be 7

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generations from Edith.
OK.

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So his 7th grade grade Paul.
And then it makes me wonder too

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if if like the prophecies of
Enoch concerning Noah were

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around while Noah was coming up.
That would be a weird.

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Thing right?
But it's possible right?

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Given the time, well.
It would be given the what

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you're putting on.
That's something I not thought

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about, but that's that's almost
too much for anyone to handle.

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A lot to live up to, right?
That's why I always thought when

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like Hispanic people name their
kids Jesus, I'm like, that's a

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lot to live up to, right?
And then all of a sudden, but

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imagine having like prophecies
about you, right?

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And and I'm always interested to
get inside the minds.

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I mean, we're never going to be
able to until I crossover and I

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pray I get an audience with some
of them.

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But even Joseph Smith, right as
he's, you know, reading stuff

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about, you know, and from the,
you know, loans of Joseph will

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come another with that same
name, right.

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And then like, I can only
imagine translating and being

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like, what the hell, right.
And then the fact that that

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doesn't mess with somebody's
head is is pretty interesting.

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Yeah, it's it's possible maybe
that it was.

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Veiled in a certain manner, like
let's say we take the view that

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Noah maybe was a new name once
he took the mantle.

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And so maybe it wasn't such a
burden on his formative

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development.
You know, if if like

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Melchizedek's a title, right
kind of thing.

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And Christ became the high
priest after the order of

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Melchizedek.
But it's all pipes and shadows

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that that that could be maybe a
safeguard to the psyche.

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Yeah, if something like that was
was going on.

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But otherwise that's AI know I
wouldn't want that.

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No, no, because you're like,
well, so much for just becoming

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a Carpenter, right?
I mean, like that's out.

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And we see what happens with
people who are raised with

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silver spoons or whatever
religious equivalent.

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You can end up with Messiah or
God complexes.

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Yeah, you know, negatively.
Yeah, I would.

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I would think it would have had
to have been kept from right?

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Or something.
Yeah, I would.

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Because in at some level it'd
make it kind of a nihilist,

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wouldn't it?
I mean, if you knew, especially

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Noah, right, especially Noah,
because like and I'm sure we'll

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get into are are we going to get
all the way till to the arc

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story today?
Oh yeah, easy.

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OK, I'll, I'll save that for a
little later, but that's

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something that I, I definitely
want want to check out.

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Hold on one second here,
Michael.

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Yes, you're good.
Pause.

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Yeah.
So there's some stuff I

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definitely want to talk about
towards the end of Noah's life

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that I think is will show his
humanity in a way that I don't

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think many people have stopped
to think about.

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But we'll, we'll get there.
Yeah, that'd be fun.

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So Enoch's translated leaving
Methuselah.

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Well, according to the
chronology, other patriarchs are

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still around if they didn't get
lifted up.

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But according to second Enoch,
let's call, I'll take, I took to

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calling these pseudo Enoch in
the classes, you know, 'cause

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it's the pseudo figure.
Fuck, right.

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And they're books attributed to
to Enoch.

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But seem with the possible
exception or maybe even seeming

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exception of what the scholars
call first Enoch, which seems to

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be on brass plates stuff in the
Book of Mormon, as we covered

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last time, right?
So that puts it back before 600

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BC.
But Second Enoch seems to be

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around the time of Christ as far
as it being produced.

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Second, Enoch chapter 68 has
Methuselah and his children

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building an altar or a temple at
the site that Enoch was

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translated, which I thought was
interesting.

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That is interesting, but that.
Fits if it fits and Methuselah

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becomes the acting leader and
king and a priest over the the

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people that were God's covenant
people.

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That makes sense as well.
And they're praying and they're

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asking for revelation, and
Methuselah is there and they all

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circle up around the altar and
he's the leader.

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He's the guy praying and acting
as Adam, essentially.

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Right.
It doesn't say that, but you,

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you know, and I know what we're
talking about there.

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Absolutely.
But yeah.

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So it says even, you know, it
says that they dress him as a

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king with beautiful garments and
they pray at the altar.

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And so not to me, it's not just
fascinating that oh, they're

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building an altar in a temple.
It's it seems if it's true that

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this was this the pseudo Enoch
second Enoch was produced within

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200 years of Christ, it becomes
an interesting social commentary

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on the top.
For example, in these, in this

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Enoch literature, you have
almost like it's a polemic

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against the priesthood of the
day in Jerusalem, the Levites,

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and the emphasis on Moses being
the lawgiver.

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We see that all the time through
the scriptures because we have

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we see in the Enoch literature,
the scriptures that Enoch gets

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the Torah first divinely and
he's like the celestial,

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celestial traveler and he goes
and he's the scribe and he gets

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it and he brings it back down.
So it's almost like you could

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see, and we know or we assume
that the Enoch literature was

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popular with like these outcast
groups that are against the

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established priesthood body in
the city.

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And you can see that it's
advantageous for these other

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groups to say we have a
priesthood tradition that

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antenates or predates, sorry,
predates Moses getting the law

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and establishing the priesthood.
So the higher claim is what

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they're making and by claiming
the temple, a temple there, like

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that's what they're playing to
essentially is like you have

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this, you have undercurrents,
essentially dumb spelling out

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here for us, right?
Is that these people around the

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time of Christ, some of them,
not all of them we know.

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For we know the Jews were
looking for the Romans to be

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overthrown politically.
Yep.

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But there was subsets that were
waiting for the temple to be

222
00:13:55,360 --> 00:13:57,200
overthrown because it was
apostate.

223
00:13:58,400 --> 00:14:00,880
Interesting.
Who were these groups?

224
00:14:02,160 --> 00:14:06,440
Among them could be the Essenes
or but for if and if they're

225
00:14:06,440 --> 00:14:09,160
identified with the Qumran
community, then you know which

226
00:14:09,160 --> 00:14:13,400
some people are not willing to
say 100%, but that's identical,

227
00:14:13,800 --> 00:14:16,560
right, Right.
So Qumran and the Essenes and

228
00:14:16,560 --> 00:14:21,320
possibly others, right?
And and they would have had the

229
00:14:22,400 --> 00:14:23,960
the.
Enoch literature.

230
00:14:23,960 --> 00:14:26,000
Yeah.
It's very popular, yeah.

231
00:14:26,400 --> 00:14:28,760
Now what about Ethiopia?
Would they have had that at that

232
00:14:28,760 --> 00:14:30,080
time as well?
Probably not.

233
00:14:30,760 --> 00:14:34,240
So the we call the Ethiopian
Enoch, which is first Enoch

234
00:14:34,240 --> 00:14:39,240
because Christianity eventually
took that down there later, but

235
00:14:39,880 --> 00:14:42,000
it's it was definitely written
in Hebrew first.

236
00:14:42,400 --> 00:14:46,120
OK, because Dead Sea, we found
fragments, Dead Sea Scrolls in

237
00:14:46,120 --> 00:14:50,440
Hebrew or Aramaic.
And so the scholarly consensus

238
00:14:50,440 --> 00:14:54,480
is first Enoch, which as we
determined was on the brass

239
00:14:54,480 --> 00:14:59,840
plates right last time, went
from, well, maybe even something

240
00:14:59,840 --> 00:15:03,360
that was before Hebrew to Hebrew
to Greek to Ethiopia.

241
00:15:03,640 --> 00:15:06,640
OK, The only reason I asked
about Ethiopia is there was

242
00:15:06,800 --> 00:15:09,600
there's that legend that that's
where the Ark of the Covenant

243
00:15:09,600 --> 00:15:12,400
went, right?
And I wonder if that's if, if

244
00:15:12,400 --> 00:15:15,200
maybe some of those records
didn't travel down there at that

245
00:15:15,200 --> 00:15:17,080
time.
But if the consensus is it comes

246
00:15:17,080 --> 00:15:23,080
through Christianity and not
Hebrewism, then Judaism, then

247
00:15:23,080 --> 00:15:24,720
that makes.
Sense too well I could look into

248
00:15:24,720 --> 00:15:27,680
that but yeah, I I mean it's the
Ethiopian church that's a

249
00:15:27,680 --> 00:15:29,520
Christian Church that has the
book of Munich.

250
00:15:29,520 --> 00:15:32,320
I don't know if there's any
Ethiopian Jewish traditions that

251
00:15:32,320 --> 00:15:33,680
have the book of Munich and
Ethiopia.

252
00:15:33,680 --> 00:15:37,280
I could OK no, no, it's good.
I was just curious.

253
00:15:37,880 --> 00:15:39,520
Yeah.
So that time period is super

254
00:15:39,520 --> 00:15:42,480
interesting because you do have
this overlap of Christianity and

255
00:15:42,480 --> 00:15:46,440
Judaism that are all doing their
own thing and people just think

256
00:15:46,880 --> 00:15:49,240
we were Jews and then the
Christianity was next.

257
00:15:49,640 --> 00:15:50,880
Sometimes that's what we think
of it.

258
00:15:50,880 --> 00:15:53,440
It's was not that one.
No, there was a lot of lead

259
00:15:53,440 --> 00:15:54,080
over.
Right.

260
00:15:54,080 --> 00:15:58,440
A lot of weird things in the
middle and outside this

261
00:15:58,440 --> 00:16:00,120
intersection and everything,
people.

262
00:16:00,120 --> 00:16:03,440
Forget there was a debate going
on between Paul and Peter,

263
00:16:03,440 --> 00:16:05,600
right?
Like, hey, these guys got to go

264
00:16:05,600 --> 00:16:08,840
get snipped first, right?
Before they can become before

265
00:16:08,840 --> 00:16:10,360
they can become Christians,
right?

266
00:16:10,360 --> 00:16:13,560
And I mean, there's, there's
some stuff there going on that

267
00:16:13,560 --> 00:16:17,440
that I think people just think,
oh, they, they got a charge from

268
00:16:17,480 --> 00:16:18,840
Jesus and they had it all
figured out.

269
00:16:18,840 --> 00:16:21,000
And here we go.
And that's not necessarily the

270
00:16:21,000 --> 00:16:22,400
case at all.
Right.

271
00:16:22,520 --> 00:16:25,720
And so in this the secrets of
Enoch, which is secret second

272
00:16:25,720 --> 00:16:33,640
Enoch, you have this emphasis on
Enoch as the high priest over

273
00:16:33,640 --> 00:16:38,560
Moses, over Aaron.
You also have Melchizedek type

274
00:16:38,600 --> 00:16:44,600
themes, which this is really
prepping the people for and

275
00:16:44,600 --> 00:16:47,640
really emphasizing that there's
an order of the priest that's

276
00:16:47,640 --> 00:16:51,000
higher than what the the Levite,
Scott, this priest stood after

277
00:16:51,000 --> 00:16:55,480
the order of Melchizedek, you
know, and then when Christianity

278
00:16:55,480 --> 00:16:59,520
comes along, they kind of say
that guy, that Enoch, that these

279
00:16:59,560 --> 00:17:02,080
this Enoch literature that we've
had been talking about.

280
00:17:02,240 --> 00:17:04,280
Yeah, that was Christ that was
crucified.

281
00:17:04,680 --> 00:17:07,280
And then that got the Jews all
like, OK, we're not going to use

282
00:17:07,319 --> 00:17:09,319
Enoch anymore.
Right, Right.

283
00:17:09,960 --> 00:17:13,160
Yeah, there's a political, you
know, and that's just it, right?

284
00:17:13,160 --> 00:17:18,800
Is that our Western way of
thought is to separate religion

285
00:17:18,800 --> 00:17:23,280
and Christian religion in in
politics, right, Especially from

286
00:17:23,280 --> 00:17:26,359
the American standpoint.
Now, I want to say I don't think

287
00:17:26,359 --> 00:17:28,200
the founders ever really
envisioned that.

288
00:17:28,200 --> 00:17:31,400
I think we look at the
separation of church and state

289
00:17:31,400 --> 00:17:35,880
as being one of those things
that's for the state, right?

290
00:17:35,920 --> 00:17:38,320
But actually the founders
understood it.

291
00:17:38,320 --> 00:17:40,920
No, you're protecting religion
from the state.

292
00:17:42,000 --> 00:17:46,480
And So what, what's very
interesting is that you do have

293
00:17:46,480 --> 00:17:50,760
a commingling of, of the, the,
the, the, the political

294
00:17:50,760 --> 00:17:54,160
authority until the Romans and
whoever else conquered them

295
00:17:54,160 --> 00:17:57,960
before the, the Greeks and that
sort of thing, the, it was a

296
00:17:57,960 --> 00:18:02,720
theocracy, right?
It was ruled by by essentially

297
00:18:02,720 --> 00:18:04,560
clerics of the time.
Right.

298
00:18:05,600 --> 00:18:07,880
So yeah, I think that's just
interesting stuff to set the

299
00:18:07,880 --> 00:18:11,520
stage for us.
So Noah, according to the

300
00:18:11,520 --> 00:18:16,120
Doctrine Covenants, now this is
what Noah was ordained the

301
00:18:16,120 --> 00:18:18,520
priesthood when he was 10 years
old by Methuselah.

302
00:18:19,600 --> 00:18:22,400
Yeah, well, didn't they have a
handbook of instructions to tell

303
00:18:22,400 --> 00:18:25,880
them that that wasn't right?
They they had all this other

304
00:18:25,880 --> 00:18:27,160
scripture.
I guess they were too busy

305
00:18:27,160 --> 00:18:29,360
reading that instead of the
handbook instead of the handbook

306
00:18:29,960 --> 00:18:30,520
my.
Bad.

307
00:18:31,960 --> 00:18:35,800
Sorry.
Yeah.

308
00:18:35,800 --> 00:18:40,760
So that's interesting.
But then again, like John was

309
00:18:40,760 --> 00:18:44,480
ordained to as a baby.
Yeah, you know.

310
00:18:45,040 --> 00:18:47,680
Preparatory to his calling.
You know, there's, there's some

311
00:18:47,680 --> 00:18:52,280
stuff there, right, that that
makes you wonder.

312
00:18:52,280 --> 00:18:55,160
And, and we do see some
instances of this even in

313
00:18:55,160 --> 00:18:59,480
Brigham Young's day, right,
because he ordained his sons to

314
00:18:59,480 --> 00:19:02,280
the apostleship.
He ordained John Willard, I

315
00:19:02,280 --> 00:19:04,760
believe, when he was thirteen
years old, as an apostle.

316
00:19:04,760 --> 00:19:07,920
Right, yeah.
And, and so it's one of those

317
00:19:07,920 --> 00:19:10,680
things where I, I don't think
that's always out of the realm

318
00:19:10,680 --> 00:19:16,640
of, of improbability, right?
And I often wonder what does

319
00:19:16,640 --> 00:19:18,680
that look like for, for the kid,
right?

320
00:19:18,680 --> 00:19:23,120
It's are, are those keys held in
like escrow, right?

321
00:19:23,120 --> 00:19:25,120
Like sort of a.
Yeah, 'cause they're going to

322
00:19:25,120 --> 00:19:27,160
trust a 13.
Yeah, you're going to trust a 13

323
00:19:27,160 --> 00:19:30,000
year old now, I want to say that
life was different back then,

324
00:19:30,000 --> 00:19:32,040
right?
Like you were sent out to herd

325
00:19:32,040 --> 00:19:35,080
sheep at 8 and you better be
able to fend off the wolf while

326
00:19:35,080 --> 00:19:37,400
you're there, right?
So they, they aren't your

327
00:19:37,400 --> 00:19:40,280
typical, you know, young, young
kids.

328
00:19:40,280 --> 00:19:45,400
But still, I mean it.
It often makes me wonder what

329
00:19:45,400 --> 00:19:48,240
that looked like.
I think so too.

330
00:19:48,400 --> 00:19:51,560
Yeah, that's a good point.
So he's ordained when he was 10,

331
00:19:51,640 --> 00:19:56,280
but around 500 years of age,
Noah was ordained again by the

332
00:19:56,280 --> 00:19:59,360
Lord.
This says in the Moses 8 verse

333
00:19:59,360 --> 00:20:03,000
19, he's ordained by the Lord
after his own order.

334
00:20:03,280 --> 00:20:06,160
And so that's interesting.
What do you think about that?

335
00:20:06,640 --> 00:20:10,680
After his own order, I would
think that that would be, if you

336
00:20:10,680 --> 00:20:13,880
were to put it in today's terms,
is that the calling an election

337
00:20:13,880 --> 00:20:16,080
made sure.
Yeah, I think that's that's tied

338
00:20:16,080 --> 00:20:17,760
together.
With right, I think that's what

339
00:20:17,760 --> 00:20:20,800
it's, it's referring to there.
If I was a betting man, but

340
00:20:21,000 --> 00:20:22,400
that's that's where I'd go with
it.

341
00:20:22,560 --> 00:20:26,720
Yeah, it's essentially what it
is.

342
00:20:26,760 --> 00:20:29,160
I think that yeah, there's it's
the fullness of this king and

343
00:20:29,160 --> 00:20:33,680
priesthood, you know, and you
also see something interesting

344
00:20:33,680 --> 00:20:39,360
along these lines too, perhaps
with it's also in section I

345
00:20:39,360 --> 00:20:45,280
don't think it's section it's
section 84 where it says Isaias

346
00:20:45,280 --> 00:20:48,960
was was ordained of God, the
priesthood and he lived in the

347
00:20:48,960 --> 00:20:50,880
days of Abraham.
You remember that passage,

348
00:20:51,200 --> 00:20:54,080
right.
So you do have this occasional

349
00:20:54,840 --> 00:20:58,040
ordaining of God.
And so theories are it's it's

350
00:20:58,040 --> 00:21:03,480
also the stuff like you now have
the key used to act like I would

351
00:21:03,480 --> 00:21:07,440
say it's beyond calling an
election made sure in the sense

352
00:21:07,440 --> 00:21:12,520
that we see it seems that we see
people who are ordained after

353
00:21:12,520 --> 00:21:17,800
this order begin to have powers
like Nephi, son of Helaman,

354
00:21:19,280 --> 00:21:25,480
Elijah, Enoch to and the Joseph
Smith translation of the book of

355
00:21:26,120 --> 00:21:29,320
Genesis 9 or whatever says that
this is you have faith to break

356
00:21:29,320 --> 00:21:33,760
mountains to change the course
of rivers to defy armies and

357
00:21:33,760 --> 00:21:38,920
nations and or as God says to
Moses, the waters will obey you

358
00:21:38,920 --> 00:21:42,800
as if you were God.
You know, as he says to Nephi,

359
00:21:42,800 --> 00:21:46,000
you will not anything you ask, I
will do because I know that you

360
00:21:46,000 --> 00:21:49,280
will not ask him this right.
You know, it's this really this

361
00:21:49,280 --> 00:21:52,280
higher level, you know, Elijah
calling down fire on the priest

362
00:21:52,280 --> 00:21:57,200
of Baio or well on the sacrifice
and then on other people that's.

363
00:21:57,200 --> 00:21:59,240
When things get real, right?
Yeah.

364
00:21:59,800 --> 00:22:02,120
But I've got to ask you this
question, OK?

365
00:22:02,840 --> 00:22:08,000
We know that one of the things
that's supposed to happen when

366
00:22:08,160 --> 00:22:11,920
you're calling election made
sure is that the savior appears

367
00:22:11,920 --> 00:22:15,640
to you, right?
I think that's the way I think,

368
00:22:15,840 --> 00:22:21,200
OK.
And that there could be some

369
00:22:21,200 --> 00:22:24,440
hands laid upon you.
That's what I tend to think.

370
00:22:25,760 --> 00:22:29,280
Who is it if Christ has not been
embodied yet?

371
00:22:29,680 --> 00:22:33,120
It's a great question I got.
Theories, yeah, but they're just

372
00:22:33,120 --> 00:22:35,040
theories.
Are we going to say since you're

373
00:22:35,040 --> 00:22:37,520
going to edit it out or?
I think, I think it's Adam.

374
00:22:37,560 --> 00:22:41,320
I think it's God the Father.
I think he shows up at that

375
00:22:41,320 --> 00:22:43,360
point before Christ.
Yeah.

376
00:22:43,880 --> 00:22:46,760
And lays hands on heads.
Or it'll be the previous

377
00:22:46,760 --> 00:22:49,080
Jehovah.
The previous Jehovah's.

378
00:22:49,480 --> 00:22:51,200
Totality.
That's where I was going to go

379
00:22:51,200 --> 00:22:52,040
with that.
Yep.

380
00:22:52,080 --> 00:22:55,360
But the Jehovah Christ, in the
words of Joseph Musser, yes.

381
00:22:55,520 --> 00:22:56,760
Yep.
Yeah.

382
00:22:56,800 --> 00:23:00,120
And so, yeah, I, I don't know,
dude, that was one of those

383
00:23:00,360 --> 00:23:03,400
questions that I've always had
when I, when I read that, you

384
00:23:03,400 --> 00:23:06,160
know, after I discovered what
the second anointing was, that

385
00:23:06,160 --> 00:23:08,280
sort of thing, those were
questions I had.

386
00:23:08,280 --> 00:23:11,360
Well, then who's who's showing
up to?

387
00:23:11,360 --> 00:23:15,200
Oh yeah, before Abraham, Who's
showing up to to Noah, right?

388
00:23:15,200 --> 00:23:16,800
Who can't be Christ?
Can't be Christ.

389
00:23:16,800 --> 00:23:18,600
He's not embodied yet.
That's right.

390
00:23:19,120 --> 00:23:25,120
So just just questions.
Yeah, no, it well, these things

391
00:23:25,120 --> 00:23:28,120
kind, they have to stand up to
scrutiny on that level.

392
00:23:28,120 --> 00:23:30,400
And unless you're going to go
out there with things that I

393
00:23:30,400 --> 00:23:35,880
consider weird and saying that,
you know, that Christ was

394
00:23:35,880 --> 00:23:38,640
embodied previously, you can't
slice.

395
00:23:38,760 --> 00:23:41,120
Yeah, that's the only way you
could go without that brings up

396
00:23:41,120 --> 00:23:43,440
a whole.
Moral probation, sorry.

397
00:23:43,520 --> 00:23:47,440
Yeah, it brings up a whole slew
of things that are also more

398
00:23:47,440 --> 00:23:48,600
problematic.
Yeah.

399
00:23:48,760 --> 00:23:50,360
No, I agree.
I agree.

400
00:23:50,360 --> 00:23:52,680
It's got to, it's got to
maintain that order, so.

401
00:23:53,680 --> 00:23:56,560
Do you ever think that Noah was
a polygamist?

402
00:23:57,440 --> 00:23:58,840
Thank you.
Why do you think?

403
00:23:59,080 --> 00:24:01,800
Because of some of his kids.
Yeah, it talks about well, so

404
00:24:01,840 --> 00:24:04,280
yeah, it's it says something.
It's kind of like this little

405
00:24:04,280 --> 00:24:07,800
Easter egg that probably many
people, I bet you most of our

406
00:24:07,800 --> 00:24:10,120
people probably picked up on
this, but other people might

407
00:24:10,120 --> 00:24:12,560
not.
Which is kind of fun with the

408
00:24:12,560 --> 00:24:15,440
current undercurrents of the
anti polygamy debate because it

409
00:24:15,440 --> 00:24:17,680
just keeps popping up with the
ancient patriarchs.

410
00:24:18,120 --> 00:24:23,480
You know, Abraham had two wives,
Jacob had four wives.

411
00:24:25,200 --> 00:24:28,200
Lehigh seems to maybe have been
married to Ishmael's wife after

412
00:24:28,200 --> 00:24:31,880
Ishmael dies, because it says
Jacob and Joseph may have had a

413
00:24:31,880 --> 00:24:33,400
different mother than Nephi,
Sam.

414
00:24:33,400 --> 00:24:37,120
And you know, but then you get
this passage in the Pearl of

415
00:24:37,120 --> 00:24:41,240
great price in the book of
Moses, revealed in this part,

416
00:24:41,240 --> 00:24:46,280
probably in 1831, saying, And
Noah was 450 years old, and

417
00:24:46,280 --> 00:24:50,760
begat Japheth, and 42 years
afterwards he begat Shem of her,

418
00:24:50,760 --> 00:24:54,720
who was the mother of Japheth.
And when he was 500 years old,

419
00:24:54,720 --> 00:24:57,800
he begat him.
And Noah and his sons hearkened

420
00:24:57,960 --> 00:25:00,840
unto the Lord, and gave heed,
and they were called the sons of

421
00:25:00,840 --> 00:25:02,960
God.
And so that makes a distinction

422
00:25:02,960 --> 00:25:06,680
that that that Shem and Japheth
were full brothers for some

423
00:25:06,680 --> 00:25:08,200
reason that wants to make that
distinction.

424
00:25:08,200 --> 00:25:12,200
Yeah, and there's no reason to
do that if he's a monogamist.

425
00:25:12,360 --> 00:25:15,800
And there's no reason to do that
if him had the same mom as Sham

426
00:25:15,800 --> 00:25:16,760
and Japheth.
Right.

427
00:25:16,880 --> 00:25:19,240
It just doesn't make sense,
right?

428
00:25:19,240 --> 00:25:22,960
Makes zero sense.
And again, that one kind of

429
00:25:22,960 --> 00:25:25,080
blows apart their argument,
right?

430
00:25:25,080 --> 00:25:28,960
Because you know that oftentimes
the polygamy deniers will say

431
00:25:28,960 --> 00:25:32,960
things like, well, every time
it's tried, it goes bad, right?

432
00:25:32,960 --> 00:25:36,640
Well, doesn't seem to be this
time, right?

433
00:25:36,640 --> 00:25:39,360
There's no mention of any
dysfunction inside Noah's

434
00:25:39,360 --> 00:25:40,160
family.
Sure, right.

435
00:25:40,360 --> 00:25:42,680
Right, right.
Seems pretty copacetic.

436
00:25:42,960 --> 00:25:47,360
Yeah, and like even I can't
think of another reason that it

437
00:25:47,360 --> 00:25:48,880
would be there.
For example, maybe the a

438
00:25:49,120 --> 00:25:51,480
defender of the anti polygamy
narrative that could say, oh,

439
00:25:52,040 --> 00:25:53,680
well you're assuming he's a
polygamist.

440
00:25:53,680 --> 00:25:57,400
Maybe he had these wives
sequentially and not

441
00:25:57,400 --> 00:25:59,520
concurrently.
Maybe one of his wife's died and

442
00:25:59,520 --> 00:26:01,720
then he was married.
The one mentioned it.

443
00:26:01,720 --> 00:26:04,120
I don't know why is that
important unless it's a Easter

444
00:26:04,120 --> 00:26:08,280
egg for questions for Joseph
Smith to be asking about.

445
00:26:08,480 --> 00:26:12,840
Right, absolutely.
It it's one, Yeah.

446
00:26:12,840 --> 00:26:17,080
And again, as early as 1831,
right, yes, right.

447
00:26:17,240 --> 00:26:20,480
This is obviously.
According to some sources,

448
00:26:20,480 --> 00:26:21,720
that's when he got the
revelation.

449
00:26:22,120 --> 00:26:25,040
Yeah, for DNC 132 or the
prototype of it?

450
00:26:25,240 --> 00:26:28,200
Right, right.
Yeah, when he's like, I'm no,

451
00:26:28,640 --> 00:26:32,000
no, thanks for offering, but no,
we will not be doing that.

452
00:26:32,480 --> 00:26:35,440
And then it has to get a little
more firm from there.

453
00:26:35,800 --> 00:26:39,120
So no, that's interesting.
That's good stuff.

454
00:26:39,800 --> 00:26:42,680
And so we talked about the
Walker theme, right?

455
00:26:43,760 --> 00:26:46,680
And we determined that those
were like the rock creatures

456
00:26:46,680 --> 00:26:50,920
from from the movie Noah, right?
I mean, that's what those those

457
00:26:50,920 --> 00:26:52,520
were.
You got to explain the biology

458
00:26:52,600 --> 00:26:56,320
problem, how to have offspring
though with that.

459
00:26:56,320 --> 00:27:04,200
But so we, yeah, the these
fallen angels, it seems if you

460
00:27:04,200 --> 00:27:07,560
read the if you read the
humility stuff on it, they're

461
00:27:07,560 --> 00:27:12,720
coming to mirror the social
order of the priesthood by

462
00:27:12,720 --> 00:27:15,800
giving away ordinances and and
things like that.

463
00:27:16,240 --> 00:27:20,640
They're imitating the order of
God, but they're also doing it

464
00:27:20,640 --> 00:27:25,280
to propagate their own species,
maybe because they fell into the

465
00:27:25,280 --> 00:27:28,240
class of angels that is
described in ZNC 132, where they

466
00:27:28,240 --> 00:27:29,920
had no right to perpetual
increase.

467
00:27:30,960 --> 00:27:32,560
You know, that could be a
motivation.

468
00:27:32,560 --> 00:27:36,200
I've heard that explanation.
And anyway, so they marry the

469
00:27:36,200 --> 00:27:39,040
daughters of men, and problems
happen after that.

470
00:27:39,360 --> 00:27:42,720
But you see, like a reversal of
the narrative in our book of

471
00:27:42,720 --> 00:27:47,840
Moses in chapter 8, it says, and
when these men began to multiply

472
00:27:47,840 --> 00:27:50,760
on the face of the earth, and
this is after Noah.

473
00:27:50,760 --> 00:27:55,280
So, yeah, so it says Noah's sons
recall the sons of God.

474
00:27:55,760 --> 00:27:59,640
And it says these men began to
multiply upon the face of the

475
00:27:59,640 --> 00:28:01,440
earth, and daughters were born
unto them.

476
00:28:01,920 --> 00:28:04,440
And the sons of men saw that
those daughters.

477
00:28:04,560 --> 00:28:08,160
So the daughters of the sons of
God were fair, and took them

478
00:28:08,160 --> 00:28:11,880
wives even as they chose.
And the Lord said unto Noah, The

479
00:28:11,880 --> 00:28:14,040
daughters of thy sons have sold
themselves.

480
00:28:14,680 --> 00:28:17,520
For behold, mine anger is
kindled against the sons of men,

481
00:28:17,520 --> 00:28:19,160
for they will not hearken unto
my voice.

482
00:28:20,400 --> 00:28:22,920
So you have the flip flop of
what happened the previous

483
00:28:22,920 --> 00:28:26,800
generation with Enoch, with the
sons of God being the angels

484
00:28:27,480 --> 00:28:31,200
coming to this, the not
righteous daughters of men.

485
00:28:31,240 --> 00:28:34,280
But now it's the daughters of
the sons of God, of the

486
00:28:34,280 --> 00:28:38,280
righteous sons of God marrying
infidels.

487
00:28:38,480 --> 00:28:39,840
Interesting.
Yeah.

488
00:28:41,360 --> 00:28:43,160
So what do you make of that I.
Don't know, I just think it's

489
00:28:43,160 --> 00:28:45,920
interesting that there's an
inverse of the the paradigm

490
00:28:45,920 --> 00:28:47,480
later.
Right.

491
00:28:48,200 --> 00:28:50,920
Yeah, that is interesting.
I I think covenant marriage

492
00:28:51,080 --> 00:28:54,040
ultimately is super important to
the Lord, but that's like the

493
00:28:54,280 --> 00:28:56,000
easiest.
It sure seems to be right.

494
00:28:56,000 --> 00:29:00,160
I mean, look, there's a reason
Abraham is like sending his

495
00:29:00,160 --> 00:29:04,280
servant out to look and and
what's interesting is that

496
00:29:04,680 --> 00:29:11,520
Abraham gives that guy kind of a
token to know who it is, right?

497
00:29:12,040 --> 00:29:16,760
And so that tells me that there
are certain traits that you

498
00:29:16,760 --> 00:29:19,600
know, probably because of the
priesthood, right, The the

499
00:29:19,600 --> 00:29:24,320
presence of the priesthood that
you know, are, are going to make

500
00:29:24,320 --> 00:29:27,800
people recognizable.
And that comes through covenant

501
00:29:27,800 --> 00:29:28,840
marriage.
It's important.

502
00:29:33,000 --> 00:29:37,560
But continuing, we have things,
the very little it says in the

503
00:29:37,560 --> 00:29:40,800
book of Moses about Noah.
It says Noah prophesied.

504
00:29:40,800 --> 00:29:46,640
He taught the things of God even
as it was in the beginning, but

505
00:29:46,640 --> 00:29:51,520
then it closes or not closes.
But it talks about verse 27 of

506
00:29:51,520 --> 00:29:53,880
chapter 8, it says that Noah
walked with God.

507
00:29:54,640 --> 00:29:57,680
That's like Enoch, right?
Because he's he's attained at

508
00:29:57,680 --> 00:30:00,520
the same level.
And it also says, as did his

509
00:30:00,520 --> 00:30:02,400
three sons, Shem, Ham and
Japheth.

510
00:30:03,840 --> 00:30:07,720
OK, so they're all walking.
They've all apparently been

511
00:30:07,720 --> 00:30:09,520
ordained.
Yeah, and they've made the grade

512
00:30:09,520 --> 00:30:13,160
to a point where they're able to
to be in the rest of the Lord

513
00:30:13,160 --> 00:30:16,600
while in mortality.
Right man.

514
00:30:18,280 --> 00:30:23,600
So I yeah, pretty phenomenal, I
think and not emphasized.

515
00:30:23,600 --> 00:30:26,080
Maybe it's not recognized or
maybe it's not emphasized just

516
00:30:26,080 --> 00:30:28,800
because there's not much more
detail on it besides that right

517
00:30:28,800 --> 00:30:34,560
there in the back to our first
book of Enoch.

518
00:30:34,560 --> 00:30:37,840
The the Ethiopian version
though, you know, because

519
00:30:37,840 --> 00:30:42,160
there's Noah stuff in that.
There's not so much there's a

520
00:30:42,160 --> 00:30:46,040
little bit, a little little bit
in second Enoch, but there's

521
00:30:46,040 --> 00:30:52,160
more Noah stuff in first Enoch.
In first Enoch chapter 60, we

522
00:30:52,160 --> 00:30:56,520
see Noah has a vision or
dialogue with the Ancient of

523
00:30:56,520 --> 00:31:01,280
Days and he's starting to get
like this is like the prelude to

524
00:31:01,280 --> 00:31:04,920
like the flood.
And in fact, Enoch talks to the

525
00:31:04,920 --> 00:31:09,120
Ancient of Days in another
place, and it says that the

526
00:31:09,120 --> 00:31:12,200
Ancient of Days was the one that
sends the flood to something

527
00:31:12,200 --> 00:31:14,720
that stands.
As yeah, there's there's another

528
00:31:14,720 --> 00:31:16,200
Adam God.
Right, you know, because, yeah,

529
00:31:16,280 --> 00:31:18,800
well, everyone other, every
other religion also understands

530
00:31:18,800 --> 00:31:24,440
that the Ancient of Days is God,
right, You know, and so Noah has

531
00:31:24,920 --> 00:31:31,040
dialogue with the Ancient of
Days and without much transition

532
00:31:31,040 --> 00:31:34,400
or segue, Michael the Archangel
also in like the same chapter,

533
00:31:34,800 --> 00:31:37,760
right, which is interesting,
but, and and Michael the

534
00:31:37,760 --> 00:31:40,160
Archangel tells him concerning
the judgments coming upon the

535
00:31:40,160 --> 00:31:43,360
earth.
And then Enoch also comes down

536
00:31:43,360 --> 00:31:46,840
to to Noah during all this.
And Noah's praying out an altar

537
00:31:46,840 --> 00:31:51,200
with his hands outstretched.
And Enoch comes down and begins

538
00:31:51,200 --> 00:31:55,960
to kind of prep Noah for the,
the flood and tells him that the

539
00:31:55,960 --> 00:31:58,960
reason is because the angels
have revealed the, the secrets.

540
00:32:00,960 --> 00:32:05,440
Sometimes you read the scripture
and it says, it says it's like,

541
00:32:05,480 --> 00:32:09,120
OK, the secrets may have been
stuff like, oh, the, the

542
00:32:09,120 --> 00:32:11,920
watchers taught the children how
to commit war and build

543
00:32:11,920 --> 00:32:15,320
instruments of war or taught the
ladies how to make makeup.

544
00:32:16,160 --> 00:32:18,760
But Hugh Nibley in a lot of his
commentary and stuff, he's like

545
00:32:18,760 --> 00:32:23,720
pretty adamant that the, and it
does get, you know, it does say

546
00:32:23,720 --> 00:32:26,560
this in other places too, but
it's the main thing was it was

547
00:32:26,560 --> 00:32:31,000
ordinances, right?
The angels were revealing the

548
00:32:31,000 --> 00:32:32,960
knowledge that they had received
from the heavens.

549
00:32:32,960 --> 00:32:35,960
And I don't coming from where
I'm coming from and probably

550
00:32:35,960 --> 00:32:37,720
where you're coming from.
I don't think the heavens are

551
00:32:37,720 --> 00:32:41,120
super, super, super concerned
about makeup and cosmetics.

552
00:32:41,120 --> 00:32:44,680
No and and no.
And, and to be honest with you,

553
00:32:44,680 --> 00:32:47,760
I don't even think that the Lord
is is necessarily that worried

554
00:32:47,760 --> 00:32:51,880
about weapons of war.
Well, it says in the Old

555
00:32:51,880 --> 00:32:53,960
Testament that he's a God of
War, right?

556
00:32:53,960 --> 00:32:54,920
At times.
Right.

557
00:32:54,920 --> 00:32:57,720
And and has to be right.
And I was just going there for

558
00:32:57,720 --> 00:32:59,600
for the self-defense of his
people.

559
00:32:59,640 --> 00:33:01,760
Yeah, right.
I would think that that would be

560
00:33:01,760 --> 00:33:03,440
one of those things.
He's like, oh, they should

561
00:33:03,440 --> 00:33:06,080
probably have that right.
Probably know how to stand up

562
00:33:06,080 --> 00:33:08,240
against some of this.
And the reason why some of that

563
00:33:08,240 --> 00:33:14,640
I think is in the Books of Enoch
is because that's more of

564
00:33:15,440 --> 00:33:18,080
they're tying, they're trying to
tie this Angel thing, the

565
00:33:18,080 --> 00:33:20,520
following of the angels into
basically being with the fall of

566
00:33:20,520 --> 00:33:22,920
mankind was more than Adam and
Eve eating the fruit of the

567
00:33:22,920 --> 00:33:26,120
garden being the catalyst.
And so they need to describe and

568
00:33:26,120 --> 00:33:31,080
attribute all the woes of the
human condition to the angels.

569
00:33:31,080 --> 00:33:33,920
The advent of these angels
coming down is what I think is

570
00:33:33,920 --> 00:33:35,760
happening.
But it's interesting.

571
00:33:35,840 --> 00:33:39,640
It's circumventing the the seat
of of Eden.

572
00:33:40,120 --> 00:33:43,560
Yeah, it is, You know, sin in
quotations, because I don't

573
00:33:43,560 --> 00:33:45,640
think that was sin whatsoever.
It was all part of the plan,

574
00:33:45,920 --> 00:33:48,200
right, as we know it.
But the flames got to go

575
00:33:48,200 --> 00:33:51,920
somewhere in these, you know,
these things.

576
00:33:51,920 --> 00:33:56,240
And the more I read of these
things, I'm not super nitpicky

577
00:33:56,320 --> 00:34:02,480
on chronology or certain details
because there's many different

578
00:34:02,480 --> 00:34:04,440
apocryphal books and other
things that were considered

579
00:34:04,440 --> 00:34:07,720
scripture and holy.
And as I reviewed them, they got

580
00:34:07,720 --> 00:34:11,120
merits.
You nibbly would say details can

581
00:34:11,120 --> 00:34:14,520
be scrambled, but the motifs are
always present.

582
00:34:14,880 --> 00:34:16,520
OK.
If that makes.

583
00:34:16,520 --> 00:34:19,719
Sense right the the overarching
theme is always there.

584
00:34:19,800 --> 00:34:23,000
Yeah, but the details can be
scrambled, right?

585
00:34:23,000 --> 00:34:25,880
That makes sense just fine,
right.

586
00:34:26,360 --> 00:34:29,000
If you know your scriptures in
the standard work, right, Right.

587
00:34:29,000 --> 00:34:30,560
And yeah, then you're pretty
good.

588
00:34:30,560 --> 00:34:32,639
Do you have any more comments?
Nope, so far.

589
00:34:32,639 --> 00:34:37,120
OK, So yeah, the Noah's talking
with Enoch.

590
00:34:37,840 --> 00:34:40,639
Enoch says that because they
revealed the ordinances, they,

591
00:34:41,280 --> 00:34:44,280
this this whole generation's got
to be destroyed, and they have

592
00:34:44,280 --> 00:34:47,679
no place of repentance forever
because they have shown them

593
00:34:47,679 --> 00:34:49,440
what is hidden and they are
damned.

594
00:34:49,480 --> 00:34:52,960
It's pretty hardcore language.
But As for thee, my son, the

595
00:34:52,960 --> 00:34:56,480
Lord of Spirits knows that thou
art pure and guiltless of this

596
00:34:56,639 --> 00:35:00,560
reproach concerning the secrets.
And he has destined thy name to

597
00:35:00,560 --> 00:35:03,480
be among the holy, and will
preserve thee among those who

598
00:35:03,480 --> 00:35:06,800
dwell on the earth, and has
destined thy righteous seed for

599
00:35:06,800 --> 00:35:08,680
both kingship and for great
honors.

600
00:35:08,680 --> 00:35:12,000
And from thy seed shall proceed
a fountain of the righteous and

601
00:35:12,000 --> 00:35:17,000
the holy without number forever.
And then he's shown by Enoch

602
00:35:17,000 --> 00:35:19,640
that angels are built in New
York, which, that's interesting.

603
00:35:19,880 --> 00:35:22,320
Yeah, Yeah, Angels are building
it and that's well.

604
00:35:22,680 --> 00:35:24,480
Yeah.
And and you know, if you read

605
00:35:24,480 --> 00:35:27,160
some of those early Pioneer
accounts, right, they where they

606
00:35:27,160 --> 00:35:31,360
talk about looking back,
expecting to see somebody

607
00:35:31,760 --> 00:35:34,280
pushing the hand cart.
Yeah, why they're pulling,

608
00:35:34,320 --> 00:35:37,200
right.
I don't think we that's

609
00:35:37,240 --> 00:35:41,640
necessarily out of the realm of
not just possibility, but

610
00:35:42,160 --> 00:35:44,600
likelihood.
Well, there's another thought

611
00:35:44,600 --> 00:35:47,280
that just came to my mind too,
as I've been watching some stuff

612
00:35:47,280 --> 00:35:50,880
with the Stick of Joseph
podcast, which are they're

613
00:35:50,880 --> 00:35:54,520
really doing a good work in the
church and the Old Testament

614
00:35:54,520 --> 00:35:57,840
stuff that they've been doing.
Dave Butler talks about how

615
00:35:58,080 --> 00:36:02,120
sometimes in veiled terms,
priests and angels are

616
00:36:02,120 --> 00:36:03,760
synonymous terms.
OK.

617
00:36:04,280 --> 00:36:05,880
Any of that yet?
No.

618
00:36:06,040 --> 00:36:07,880
I know you're reading in the
language of Adam, right?

619
00:36:07,920 --> 00:36:09,360
Yeah.
I don't know if he goes into

620
00:36:09,360 --> 00:36:11,760
that in the book, but in the
podcast he talks about how

621
00:36:12,240 --> 00:36:14,640
sometimes angels and priests in
the scriptures are.

622
00:36:14,800 --> 00:36:17,920
Are the same.
Or angels are priests, he says.

623
00:36:18,440 --> 00:36:22,640
So it could be a priest order
that's building the ark.

624
00:36:22,840 --> 00:36:24,640
No, that's that's a good point
too.

625
00:36:24,640 --> 00:36:26,760
Yeah.
Which is.

626
00:36:26,840 --> 00:36:28,920
Yeah.
Which hold on to that thought.

627
00:36:29,160 --> 00:36:32,080
OK, but do you have a comment
Well.

628
00:36:32,360 --> 00:36:33,600
Yeah.
And you can tell me, hey, we're

629
00:36:33,600 --> 00:36:37,040
going to cover that later.
But if it's if it's a priesthood

630
00:36:37,040 --> 00:36:41,520
thing, right, that I only see
two options there, right.

631
00:36:41,520 --> 00:36:45,240
One is maybe it's a sons, right,
OK, Noah's sons.

632
00:36:46,320 --> 00:36:52,040
But if it's not, that means some
priesthood most likely died in

633
00:36:52,040 --> 00:36:56,160
the flood, or there's people on
the ark that the book doesn't

634
00:36:56,160 --> 00:36:57,800
tell us about.
Those are all certainly

635
00:36:57,800 --> 00:37:00,120
possibilities.
I think because I'm not the one

636
00:37:00,120 --> 00:37:02,480
to take it to the literal point
of there were just eight men,

637
00:37:02,720 --> 00:37:05,000
right, or four men and four
women.

638
00:37:05,000 --> 00:37:09,720
No, because I think some things
just have to be symbolic.

639
00:37:10,600 --> 00:37:13,880
Although I will say on the
podcast, if someone were to ask

640
00:37:13,880 --> 00:37:17,960
me if I view the a worldwide
flood or a or a localized flood,

641
00:37:18,360 --> 00:37:20,640
I'm more on the camp for the
worldwide personally.

642
00:37:20,760 --> 00:37:23,360
I am too.
And so I don't just think that

643
00:37:23,360 --> 00:37:28,320
I'm like a guy fitting it into
the scriptures, into modernism

644
00:37:28,320 --> 00:37:30,200
when I say I don't.
You're from you're from

645
00:37:30,200 --> 00:37:31,280
Washington, right?
Yeah.

646
00:37:31,520 --> 00:37:35,600
And Montana pretty evenly split.
Do you ever visit the Washington

647
00:37:35,600 --> 00:37:38,200
Scablands?
Not if I have.

648
00:37:38,320 --> 00:37:39,800
I didn't know by that term.
What's that?

649
00:37:39,800 --> 00:37:41,920
I believe it's in Eastern
Washington.

650
00:37:41,920 --> 00:37:48,120
OK, so I grew up on Puget Sound.
But all right, so in Eastern

651
00:37:48,120 --> 00:37:52,080
Washington, there's what's
called the Washington Scablands,

652
00:37:52,120 --> 00:37:53,920
OK?
And it looks like a scab.

653
00:37:54,520 --> 00:37:57,560
I mean, there are potholes,
massive potholes.

654
00:37:57,560 --> 00:38:00,200
And you can look in these
potholes and you can see swirls,

655
00:38:00,600 --> 00:38:06,040
OK, Right.
And forever they're like, well,

656
00:38:06,040 --> 00:38:08,760
we're not entirely sure, maybe
volcanic activity, something

657
00:38:08,760 --> 00:38:10,800
like that.
Only there's not volcanic rock,

658
00:38:11,200 --> 00:38:12,320
OK, sure.
Right.

659
00:38:12,320 --> 00:38:14,120
So now you're like, OK, So what
is this?

660
00:38:14,120 --> 00:38:15,080
Doesn't fit.
Yeah.

661
00:38:15,720 --> 00:38:22,360
Well, when you start digging
into it, it, it comes basically

662
00:38:22,360 --> 00:38:25,480
this flood, all the flood myths
and then when you find

663
00:38:25,480 --> 00:38:29,440
corresponding evidence, it all
happens around the same time.

664
00:38:29,480 --> 00:38:33,640
Yeah, that's pretty.
And what's interesting is, is

665
00:38:33,640 --> 00:38:37,640
that it's also a time in which
when they when they rewind the

666
00:38:37,640 --> 00:38:39,520
clock, so to speak with
computers and stuff.

667
00:38:39,520 --> 00:38:42,160
And this was just recent, I want
to say this was in the last 10

668
00:38:42,160 --> 00:38:45,640
or 15 years where they have the
software to take it back.

669
00:38:46,560 --> 00:38:49,800
The Earth passes through the
torrid meteor stream, OK.

670
00:38:50,720 --> 00:38:57,960
And basically one hypothesis is,
is that asteroids hit the

671
00:38:57,960 --> 00:39:03,200
Florentine ice shelf and it
releases a massive amount of

672
00:39:03,200 --> 00:39:08,440
water into the Earth, right?
But we see massive evidence of

673
00:39:08,440 --> 00:39:13,000
this all over the place where
where there seems to be a

674
00:39:13,000 --> 00:39:18,120
cataclysmic kind of global flood
that absolutely changes the

675
00:39:18,120 --> 00:39:20,320
landscape.
Well, on all the ancient

676
00:39:20,320 --> 00:39:23,880
cultures, it's ubiquitous.
This mythology of the global

677
00:39:23,880 --> 00:39:25,760
flood is everywhere.
Yep.

678
00:39:26,200 --> 00:39:30,200
And then the other thing is, is
that there is, you know, some,

679
00:39:30,240 --> 00:39:32,920
some revision going on now with
the Grand Canyon, right?

680
00:39:32,920 --> 00:39:36,760
Just for so long, it was just
millions of years because of the

681
00:39:36,760 --> 00:39:39,440
Colorado River, but now they're
going well, that doesn't make

682
00:39:39,440 --> 00:39:40,600
sense.
If we look at some of the

683
00:39:40,600 --> 00:39:45,720
strata, right, This seems to be
a cataclysmic kind of flood that

684
00:39:45,960 --> 00:39:48,240
does this in fairly short order.
Sure.

685
00:39:48,560 --> 00:39:52,360
So now, in Full disclosure, I'm
not a young Earth creationist

686
00:39:52,360 --> 00:39:55,080
though either.
I I can't get behind that.

687
00:39:55,080 --> 00:39:58,200
I mean, I've tried, I've tried
to wrap my mind around it, but

688
00:39:58,320 --> 00:40:00,640
the evidence just keeps popping
back up.

689
00:40:00,640 --> 00:40:03,240
And it's hard to wrap your mind
around.

690
00:40:04,320 --> 00:40:06,720
Yeah.
So I, I, I think the other

691
00:40:06,720 --> 00:40:09,600
alternatives to young earth's
creationism are far more

692
00:40:09,600 --> 00:40:13,240
interesting anyways, for it was
like the, the, the, the knee

693
00:40:13,240 --> 00:40:17,720
jerk reaction, though, is like,
OK, people would say, I'm

694
00:40:17,720 --> 00:40:21,160
worried you're resting the
scriptures or this has other

695
00:40:21,160 --> 00:40:26,480
questions with the restoration
things like, well, how could

696
00:40:26,720 --> 00:40:28,960
that work?
If if it says the scripture, you

697
00:40:29,000 --> 00:40:32,160
know, our restoration scripture
says that Adam was the first

698
00:40:32,160 --> 00:40:36,000
flesh upon the earth.
And I think that there are

699
00:40:36,000 --> 00:40:39,080
answers to those questions that
are faithful and enlightening

700
00:40:39,200 --> 00:40:43,360
without being, we're trying to
rest this into this modern, you

701
00:40:43,360 --> 00:40:48,480
know, this modern scientific
modernism that's like, we can

702
00:40:48,480 --> 00:40:53,200
take away this, I don't know,
mystical element is.

703
00:40:53,200 --> 00:40:57,680
More natural, right, right.
And, and see, I the, the other

704
00:40:57,680 --> 00:41:01,200
thing I'll say on this is that
if, if you're an adherent to the

705
00:41:01,200 --> 00:41:05,360
restoration, well, you have
extra canonical sources, right,

706
00:41:05,360 --> 00:41:07,120
that are carry just as much
weight.

707
00:41:07,520 --> 00:41:11,480
And I go back to the account
that Joseph of Joseph speaking

708
00:41:11,480 --> 00:41:15,160
in Nauvoo where he says, you
know, we speak of a world, but

709
00:41:15,160 --> 00:41:17,720
the world is different.
Than a planet.

710
00:41:18,080 --> 00:41:19,640
Than a planet or an earth,
right?

711
00:41:19,640 --> 00:41:22,800
A world talks about the
inhabitants of a people, and in

712
00:41:22,800 --> 00:41:26,120
some of those same accounts he
says the earth's been inhabited

713
00:41:26,120 --> 00:41:30,560
7 times before, right?
Which is a very interesting

714
00:41:30,840 --> 00:41:33,200
idea.
Yeah, There's also one statement

715
00:41:33,200 --> 00:41:35,160
that's also I think it's in the
history of the church, but it's

716
00:41:35,160 --> 00:41:38,600
scrubbed with the original, has
Hiram Smith talking in Nauvoo

717
00:41:38,600 --> 00:41:40,480
and says that there was prophets
before Adam.

718
00:41:40,680 --> 00:41:43,080
Yeah, yeah.
I mean, there's this.

719
00:41:43,080 --> 00:41:45,000
Weird.
Yeah.

720
00:41:45,160 --> 00:41:46,480
Yeah.
How do you deal with that?

721
00:41:46,480 --> 00:41:47,840
Right.
And so I don't, I don't

722
00:41:47,840 --> 00:41:50,520
necessarily subscribe to the to
the young Earth model.

723
00:41:50,520 --> 00:41:52,080
No, I don't either.
Let me say this.

724
00:41:52,080 --> 00:41:54,880
I I think you can make a
reasonable argument that maybe

725
00:41:54,880 --> 00:41:57,440
the clock starts again when Adam
comes to Earth.

726
00:41:57,560 --> 00:41:59,240
Oh yeah.
That's how I feel like it is,

727
00:41:59,240 --> 00:42:01,240
but it's just like Noah
restarting the clock up the

728
00:42:01,240 --> 00:42:04,040
clock, which is exactly what
we're because Noah is the type

729
00:42:04,800 --> 00:42:06,600
of Adam restarting the world,
right?

730
00:42:06,800 --> 00:42:10,080
But that makes you wonder about
Adam being a type for Noah,

731
00:42:10,480 --> 00:42:13,840
coming from another world.
Yep, just like Noah, he's going

732
00:42:13,840 --> 00:42:16,960
from Noah is traversing the old
world to the new world.

733
00:42:17,200 --> 00:42:19,560
Yep.
Adam as a God, as A and as an

734
00:42:19,560 --> 00:42:22,520
Archangel, as a resurrected
being, is transversing the old

735
00:42:22,520 --> 00:42:24,840
world to a new world.
Yep, Yep.

736
00:42:25,240 --> 00:42:27,880
But it also doesn't mean that
there weren't people here before

737
00:42:27,880 --> 00:42:29,160
him.
Right, right.

738
00:42:29,720 --> 00:42:32,840
And, and right down to the
endowment, if you pay attention

739
00:42:32,840 --> 00:42:37,000
to the liturgy, makes you wonder
about certain things the

740
00:42:37,000 --> 00:42:40,200
adversary says at the beginning,
Yeah.

741
00:42:40,920 --> 00:42:42,400
Yeah, absolutely.
It sure does.

742
00:42:42,600 --> 00:42:44,160
We have a new world here.
Yep.

743
00:42:44,520 --> 00:42:46,880
All right.
Which is still in there.

744
00:42:46,920 --> 00:42:49,480
The the endowment.
And that was probably one of the

745
00:42:49,480 --> 00:42:52,320
most fun things to me when I
first got my endowment in the

746
00:42:52,320 --> 00:42:57,000
LDS Church to see that was stuff
that you weren't really.

747
00:42:57,480 --> 00:42:59,880
And it's still this way.
I'm sure you're discouraged to

748
00:42:59,880 --> 00:43:02,360
talk about in Sunday school, but
here it was right on the big

749
00:43:02,360 --> 00:43:04,520
screen, Right.
Yep.

750
00:43:04,680 --> 00:43:05,600
But then you're still not
allowed to.

751
00:43:05,880 --> 00:43:07,200
I mean, you're still not allowed
to talk.

752
00:43:07,200 --> 00:43:08,560
About it.
But here we are talking about

753
00:43:08,560 --> 00:43:10,280
it, so yeah.
Yeah.

754
00:43:10,520 --> 00:43:11,560
Renegade.
That's right.

755
00:43:11,560 --> 00:43:14,640
Do you have any more?
Nope, that's it.

756
00:43:14,640 --> 00:43:20,360
OK, so another motif.
It did touch about it a little

757
00:43:20,360 --> 00:43:23,920
bit, but it's consistent
throughout.

758
00:43:24,200 --> 00:43:27,080
Not just the Enoch literature,
it's in the Adam literature that

759
00:43:27,080 --> 00:43:32,360
we talked about a long time ago,
but in first Enoch 68, Noah, and

760
00:43:32,360 --> 00:43:36,560
before the Flood, Noah gets the
books of the secrets.

761
00:43:37,680 --> 00:43:41,960
All this knowledge from Enoch.
Enoch's already been translated,

762
00:43:42,240 --> 00:43:44,160
as we put it, in our terms,
right?

763
00:43:44,760 --> 00:43:48,160
He's ascended into the heavens.
He's been the scribe of the

764
00:43:48,160 --> 00:43:51,560
angels and of God, and the
world's about to be destroyed

765
00:43:51,560 --> 00:43:55,480
and boom, Enoch comes and passes
this knowledge to Noah.

766
00:43:56,000 --> 00:44:00,800
Right.
It says what did it say here

767
00:44:01,720 --> 00:44:03,800
anyways?
So yeah, he gets the those

768
00:44:03,800 --> 00:44:09,680
books.
The Adam literature said, or our

769
00:44:09,680 --> 00:44:12,320
literature says Adam was keeping
a record, you know, the Book of

770
00:44:12,320 --> 00:44:13,760
Remembrance, and he passed it
down.

771
00:44:13,760 --> 00:44:17,480
The Adam literature said that
Seth started a record and it

772
00:44:17,480 --> 00:44:20,600
also says that it made it to
Enoch and that Enoch passed it

773
00:44:20,600 --> 00:44:23,240
down and it was to end up in the
temple of Solomon, right?

774
00:44:23,240 --> 00:44:26,400
Do you recall any of that?
So these motifs of the record

775
00:44:26,400 --> 00:44:27,720
being passed down are
consistent.

776
00:44:28,480 --> 00:44:30,800
So Noah carries this through the
flood, right?

777
00:44:31,080 --> 00:44:34,240
The Book of Jubilees, which is
also given a code name, Little

778
00:44:34,240 --> 00:44:40,120
Genesis in some circles, says in
chapter 10 that Noah wrote down

779
00:44:40,200 --> 00:44:43,920
in a book everything, and he
gave all the books that he had

780
00:44:43,920 --> 00:44:47,040
written to his oldest son, Shem,
because he loved him much more

781
00:44:47,040 --> 00:44:50,360
than all of his other sons.
And then the book of Abraham

782
00:44:50,360 --> 00:44:53,360
back in our Pearl of Great
Price, says, I shall endeavor

783
00:44:53,360 --> 00:44:56,360
hereafter to delineate the
chronology running back from

784
00:44:56,360 --> 00:44:58,120
myself to the beginning of the
creation.

785
00:44:58,760 --> 00:45:02,040
For the records have come into
my hands which I hold on to this

786
00:45:02,040 --> 00:45:05,440
present time.
And I, Abraham had the Urim and

787
00:45:05,440 --> 00:45:08,440
Thummim which the Lord my God
had given unto me in Ur of the

788
00:45:08,440 --> 00:45:13,680
Chaldees or Chaldees.
So we have a transition of these

789
00:45:13,680 --> 00:45:16,400
books and records and
scriptures, right, All the way

790
00:45:16,400 --> 00:45:19,760
down from Adam through the
flood, through Noah down to

791
00:45:19,760 --> 00:45:23,960
Abraham, which I just found it
incredibly consistent down to

792
00:45:23,960 --> 00:45:27,560
the fact that after a confusion
of languages, Abraham needs the

793
00:45:27,560 --> 00:45:29,240
Urim and Thummim to be able to
translate it.

794
00:45:29,640 --> 00:45:32,200
Yeah, to read it, right.
Otherwise, what's the point in

795
00:45:32,200 --> 00:45:34,520
them having the?
And you know, that's that's one

796
00:45:34,520 --> 00:45:39,680
of those continuity things that
adds credence to the gospel

797
00:45:39,680 --> 00:45:45,040
narrative, right?
When when you find incoherencies

798
00:45:45,720 --> 00:45:49,400
or incongruities you.
I'm not saying you should ever

799
00:45:49,920 --> 00:45:53,320
just throw things out because of
that, but so often I think you

800
00:45:53,320 --> 00:45:56,840
can find those which just adds
to the validity of the account.

801
00:45:57,560 --> 00:46:00,880
I think so too.
And, and when you see multiple

802
00:46:00,880 --> 00:46:04,360
things, multiple accounts, it's
like the gospels.

803
00:46:04,360 --> 00:46:08,160
The gospels in the New Testament
are not 100% synchronized.

804
00:46:08,440 --> 00:46:10,800
No at all.
Nor should we expect them to.

805
00:46:10,800 --> 00:46:12,400
Be And it's the same with other
scripture, too.

806
00:46:12,400 --> 00:46:15,360
Sometimes we shouldn't always
expect, Hugh, Nibley says.

807
00:46:15,640 --> 00:46:17,920
Details can be scrambled, but
the motifs are clear.

808
00:46:18,120 --> 00:46:22,400
Well, I have AI, have a friend
who's a detective, and he said

809
00:46:22,840 --> 00:46:26,480
the biggest red flag is when two
people's stories are too

810
00:46:26,480 --> 00:46:27,480
identical.
Right.

811
00:46:28,000 --> 00:46:30,560
He's like, that doesn't happen.
Yeah, it's rehearsed.

812
00:46:30,560 --> 00:46:34,200
It's a conspiracy.
When when you go to an accident

813
00:46:34,200 --> 00:46:37,600
scene and you get reports of
everybody, things are a little

814
00:46:37,600 --> 00:46:39,720
different, right?
But you again get the overall

815
00:46:39,720 --> 00:46:42,400
motif.
Absolutely.

816
00:46:42,400 --> 00:46:45,280
And we're going to get the
really nerdy stuff now.

817
00:46:45,440 --> 00:46:49,480
Nice talk about biblical source
criticisms before we continue

818
00:46:49,520 --> 00:46:50,560
on.
Do you know what I mean by that?

819
00:46:50,600 --> 00:46:51,960
No.
Why don't you explain that?

820
00:46:52,360 --> 00:46:55,720
We talked, we have talked about
the documentary hypothesis class

821
00:46:55,840 --> 00:46:59,800
probably on this podcast before.
I was really sold on it by the

822
00:46:59,800 --> 00:47:04,480
boys at the stick of Joseph.
Again, I don't want people

823
00:47:04,480 --> 00:47:10,240
thinking I'm just like into this
modern scholarly stuff as far as

824
00:47:10,360 --> 00:47:12,520
narratives that like, because I
don't take it to the point of,

825
00:47:12,520 --> 00:47:14,720
oh, Scripture's not real.
I believe the gospels.

826
00:47:14,920 --> 00:47:16,160
I believe the scriptures are
real too.

827
00:47:16,560 --> 00:47:21,040
But sometimes scriptures are
written as scripture, not

828
00:47:21,040 --> 00:47:25,760
history, right?
And there's different audiences.

829
00:47:25,840 --> 00:47:27,600
Well, yeah.
You know, like Matthew, Mark,

830
00:47:27,600 --> 00:47:30,040
Luke and John, back to that.
Like Matthew was written for

831
00:47:30,040 --> 00:47:34,600
Hebrews and Mark was written for
Hebrews and Luke was written for

832
00:47:34,600 --> 00:47:36,720
the Gentiles, right.
You know.

833
00:47:37,360 --> 00:47:39,320
Tailoring the the to the
audience.

834
00:47:39,320 --> 00:47:42,480
Exactly, exactly, absolutely.
Yep.

835
00:47:42,880 --> 00:47:45,120
And so we're we're going to get
into some of that.

836
00:47:45,120 --> 00:47:46,920
Now, well, OK, so we, yeah, we
have this.

837
00:47:47,400 --> 00:47:50,320
Well, so Noah was a long time
ago, right?

838
00:47:50,520 --> 00:47:54,040
A long, long time ago because
you got the myth of this flood

839
00:47:54,080 --> 00:47:57,160
in every nation, every tongue
and people on the earth.

840
00:47:57,840 --> 00:48:01,720
It's a long time ago.
Even Moses purportedly riding

841
00:48:01,720 --> 00:48:04,480
the Torah be a long time ago.
That's over 3000 years ago.

842
00:48:05,120 --> 00:48:10,600
Israel being a nation after
Moses, under the monarchy, 400

843
00:48:10,600 --> 00:48:13,080
years after Moses is 3000 years
ago, right?

844
00:48:13,200 --> 00:48:17,000
Yeah, this is a long time.
But then they have you political

845
00:48:17,000 --> 00:48:19,840
differences like we talked about
earlier, like just like we see

846
00:48:19,840 --> 00:48:22,440
at the time of Christ, you got
all these different sectarian

847
00:48:22,760 --> 00:48:25,680
groups, Christian, Jewish and
others.

848
00:48:26,560 --> 00:48:29,240
You have a division as soon as
Solomon dies of the United

849
00:48:29,240 --> 00:48:30,200
Kingdom.
Right.

850
00:48:30,680 --> 00:48:34,400
And there's two political
kingdoms now, the North and the

851
00:48:34,400 --> 00:48:38,040
South, right?
Some people have used the

852
00:48:38,040 --> 00:48:42,280
American North and South to
illustrate how history can be

853
00:48:42,280 --> 00:48:45,120
different because what is the
Civil War down South?

854
00:48:45,960 --> 00:48:50,440
Well, I can tell you this so so
you're in OK, tangent time,

855
00:48:51,040 --> 00:48:53,480
tangent time.
OK, So I it was when I was

856
00:48:53,480 --> 00:48:59,200
living, living in Maryland and
Maryland's a funny state because

857
00:48:59,720 --> 00:49:04,440
it's not fully the North, but
yet it's not the South either,

858
00:49:04,440 --> 00:49:06,720
right?
It's a weird in between.

859
00:49:06,720 --> 00:49:12,120
And it was even reflected in
where they would put PO WS just

860
00:49:12,120 --> 00:49:13,840
across the border in Fort
Delaware.

861
00:49:14,640 --> 00:49:19,280
So like they put like
Confederate PO WS there, some of

862
00:49:19,280 --> 00:49:24,280
them being generals.
Now, the Union officers, the

863
00:49:24,480 --> 00:49:28,320
Union generals who were over
that particular port where they

864
00:49:28,320 --> 00:49:32,320
were the Confederate generals
were being housed, told all of

865
00:49:32,320 --> 00:49:36,240
their soldiers, his soldiers to
be like when those Confederate

866
00:49:36,240 --> 00:49:38,680
soldiers step out in the
morning, you still salute them,

867
00:49:39,520 --> 00:49:41,800
right?
It was, it was a so that just

868
00:49:41,800 --> 00:49:45,560
illustrates that that that
Delmarva Peninsula area is a

869
00:49:45,560 --> 00:49:47,880
really mixed bag, right?
Well, it's super close to

870
00:49:47,880 --> 00:49:50,600
Virginia right there, you know.
Yeah, it makes sense.

871
00:49:50,680 --> 00:49:53,360
But then it's just a hop, skip
and a jump away from

872
00:49:53,360 --> 00:49:57,000
Philadelphia, which is blatantly
north right Yankees, right?

873
00:49:57,600 --> 00:50:00,240
And so it's a weird, weird
little state.

874
00:50:01,080 --> 00:50:05,560
And I remember we got sent down
to a, a place called Pocomoke,

875
00:50:06,440 --> 00:50:12,320
Virginia, to do a survey and, or
maybe it was across the

876
00:50:12,320 --> 00:50:13,920
Chesapeake.
Crap, I can't remember it.

877
00:50:14,160 --> 00:50:16,520
It may have been on the, the
West side of the Chesapeake.

878
00:50:16,520 --> 00:50:19,000
So don't quote me on the, the
exact region, but we were in

879
00:50:19,000 --> 00:50:24,440
Virginia and we had to go out
and do a survey for an old guy.

880
00:50:24,920 --> 00:50:27,480
And I mean, he'd been on that
land his whole life.

881
00:50:27,520 --> 00:50:29,800
His granddad had been out there
his whole life.

882
00:50:30,480 --> 00:50:36,240
And they, they end up, we end up
talking to him because you

883
00:50:36,240 --> 00:50:38,000
always talk to the homeowner
because they usually have

884
00:50:38,000 --> 00:50:41,160
something, you know, hey, I know
a pin that's over here that you

885
00:50:41,160 --> 00:50:43,880
can start with and and on and
on.

886
00:50:44,640 --> 00:50:46,440
So I'm getting the rundown from
the old guy.

887
00:50:46,760 --> 00:50:50,080
And he goes, yes, Sir.
And we've been, I've been on

888
00:50:50,080 --> 00:50:51,880
this land.
My family's been on this land

889
00:50:51,880 --> 00:50:55,480
since the War of Northern
Unpleasantry, right?

890
00:50:55,880 --> 00:50:59,720
Like we should probably let this
go, right?

891
00:50:59,760 --> 00:51:03,200
Like we might be to the point
where it's time to let it go.

892
00:51:03,200 --> 00:51:05,920
But yeah, I mean, there's
there's that's there's definite

893
00:51:05,920 --> 00:51:07,520
carryover.
From that, I haven't heard that

894
00:51:07,520 --> 00:51:10,560
exact term yet.
War of Northern Aggression and

895
00:51:10,560 --> 00:51:12,320
other, and there's other
derivatives I've heard too.

896
00:51:12,320 --> 00:51:14,800
But yeah, it's different
history, right?

897
00:51:14,800 --> 00:51:17,240
Yeah.
Despite the fact that unified

898
00:51:17,240 --> 00:51:21,160
history books in public schools
down South will say civil war in

899
00:51:21,160 --> 00:51:24,840
your family, it's the War of
Northern unpleasantry, right?

900
00:51:24,840 --> 00:51:26,000
Yep.
Yep.

901
00:51:26,000 --> 00:51:28,560
And that's just the way it is.
And the South will rise again.

902
00:51:28,640 --> 00:51:30,600
Yeah.
That's the other thing, right?

903
00:51:30,600 --> 00:51:35,920
And I've heard that a lot too.
Right now I, I want to be clear,

904
00:51:36,560 --> 00:51:39,000
there was nothing more
satisfying to me than seeing

905
00:51:39,000 --> 00:51:42,600
some liberal from like Vermont,
some Ben and Jerry's eaten

906
00:51:42,640 --> 00:51:46,840
Birkenstock wearing guy come
down into Southern Virginia

907
00:51:47,480 --> 00:51:51,440
because he's stuck out like a
sore, sore thumb.

908
00:51:51,440 --> 00:51:54,080
I mean, it was and he knew it
too, right?

909
00:51:54,080 --> 00:51:56,680
I mean, there, there were times
I used to enjoy watching that.

910
00:51:57,040 --> 00:51:58,880
But dude, that, that's still
there, right?

911
00:51:58,880 --> 00:52:00,920
Have you seen any confederate
flags down here since you moved

912
00:52:00,920 --> 00:52:03,240
here Here?
No, in Missouri, Not in

913
00:52:03,240 --> 00:52:07,720
Missouri, No, I haven't.
Around where I live, you'll if

914
00:52:07,720 --> 00:52:09,800
you go around you'll you'll see
some.

915
00:52:09,840 --> 00:52:13,480
The old bars and stars.
Oh yeah, well, not the bars, no,

916
00:52:13,520 --> 00:52:16,360
the the battle flag.
Yeah, yeah, the the bars and

917
00:52:16,360 --> 00:52:18,160
stars, right.
The blue and the stars in the

918
00:52:18,160 --> 00:52:19,520
middle of the bars.
Yeah.

919
00:52:19,880 --> 00:52:22,880
So when I was in Virginia, they
said they they called orange and

920
00:52:22,880 --> 00:52:25,320
blue and they called that the
bars and stars.

921
00:52:25,360 --> 00:52:27,280
I thought that was the the
national flag for the

922
00:52:27,280 --> 00:52:30,440
Confederacy, 'cause that was.
The stars and stripes, that for

923
00:52:30,440 --> 00:52:32,600
the Union.
Stars and Stripes for the union,

924
00:52:32,600 --> 00:52:34,720
probably what we call ours.
Today and then the bars and

925
00:52:34,720 --> 00:52:38,000
stars for the Confederacy,
'cause you have the blue bars

926
00:52:38,480 --> 00:52:42,520
that yeah, so they called it the
bars.

927
00:52:42,520 --> 00:52:43,760
And then the stars were in the
middle.

928
00:52:43,760 --> 00:52:45,160
Yeah.
But you'll see that I've seen

929
00:52:45,160 --> 00:52:48,960
that more than any other time in
my life in the last 3 1/2 years

930
00:52:48,960 --> 00:52:50,200
I've been here.
Really, It's still, they're

931
00:52:50,200 --> 00:52:52,640
still around, huh?
I've always said since they kind

932
00:52:52,640 --> 00:52:58,560
of went, went super woke, if you
have that flag, look, you, you

933
00:52:58,560 --> 00:53:01,160
might want to pick that up just
for posterity's sake, right?

934
00:53:01,200 --> 00:53:04,600
Because, you know, for years
from now they'll be asking what

935
00:53:04,600 --> 00:53:07,360
that is.
I remember, Shoot, when was it?

936
00:53:08,000 --> 00:53:10,200
I think it was right before the
George Floyd thing.

937
00:53:11,040 --> 00:53:17,360
I was seeing shirts in the mall
in Washington state with a, with

938
00:53:17,360 --> 00:53:20,080
a Confederate flag.
Oh yeah, on it, you know, in the

939
00:53:20,080 --> 00:53:23,320
mall in like hipster.
Oh yeah, stores.

940
00:53:23,880 --> 00:53:26,520
And then they were pulled right
now.

941
00:53:26,560 --> 00:53:29,000
Yeah, right now.
And I've never seen them since.

942
00:53:29,160 --> 00:53:31,880
Yeah.
No, it went, it went hard and

943
00:53:31,880 --> 00:53:34,080
fast, right.
I mean, after that whole thing

944
00:53:34,080 --> 00:53:38,720
went down, it was and, and see,
look, I'm not a fan of that.

945
00:53:38,760 --> 00:53:40,920
I'm glad the North won, Right?
Well, sure, dude.

946
00:53:41,120 --> 00:53:43,480
Yeah, I, I, I'm glad the North
won.

947
00:53:43,680 --> 00:53:46,960
However, let's not just erase
history.

948
00:53:47,040 --> 00:53:48,440
Right.
Well, as a historian, I have to

949
00:53:48,480 --> 00:53:51,320
agree with you.
Let's, yeah, let's not get rid

950
00:53:51,320 --> 00:53:53,600
of that because there's things
there that we want to learn

951
00:53:53,600 --> 00:53:57,480
from, right?
And I, I think it can be a

952
00:53:57,480 --> 00:54:00,200
cautionary tale to us.
This is what happens when we

953
00:54:00,200 --> 00:54:02,400
don't listen to other people,
right?

954
00:54:04,440 --> 00:54:08,480
And, and I look at the Civil war
and, and I think it is the

955
00:54:08,480 --> 00:54:10,440
result of a failure to
communicate.

956
00:54:10,440 --> 00:54:14,640
I also think it could be, you
know, I'm a, I'm a show that I,

957
00:54:15,480 --> 00:54:18,840
I would get in trouble for that.
Well, what the hell?

958
00:54:19,080 --> 00:54:22,240
I I think it, it, it could have
been divine retribution to not

959
00:54:22,240 --> 00:54:25,040
walking up to our principles, no
matter how you feel about the

960
00:54:25,040 --> 00:54:29,120
priesthood ban, right?
Or it's the way I've always kind

961
00:54:29,120 --> 00:54:33,720
of viewed it is it's retribution
to the government in general for

962
00:54:33,720 --> 00:54:35,960
how they treated the gospel, the
restoration of the.

963
00:54:35,960 --> 00:54:39,760
Gospel, That's it too.
And and people get real

964
00:54:39,760 --> 00:54:43,240
uncomfortable when they start
saying, you know, the 14th

965
00:54:43,240 --> 00:54:46,520
Amendment was crap.
And I'm like, well, it may not

966
00:54:46,520 --> 00:54:49,440
have turned out well quite like
you had hoped, but if you read

967
00:54:49,440 --> 00:54:53,080
Joseph Smith and what he's
asking for, he's asking for the

968
00:54:53,080 --> 00:54:57,240
14th Amendment.
Everything that he asks for is

969
00:54:57,240 --> 00:54:59,920
later ratified with the 14th
Amendment.

970
00:55:01,200 --> 00:55:02,320
You just.
Yeah.

971
00:55:02,320 --> 00:55:05,480
So I mean, there's some there's
some play there for sure that

972
00:55:05,480 --> 00:55:10,520
that I often get in trouble with
even with my own people for, you

973
00:55:10,520 --> 00:55:13,640
know, bringing up.
But it's just kind of the where

974
00:55:13,640 --> 00:55:20,440
I see the, the, the conflict lie
because because absolutely the,

975
00:55:20,480 --> 00:55:25,000
the question was in Joseph
Smith's time is can the, can the

976
00:55:25,000 --> 00:55:29,760
federal government come in and
get redress for people who've

977
00:55:29,760 --> 00:55:32,120
been wronged by their states?
Right.

978
00:55:33,120 --> 00:55:35,600
It's kind of the same question
with the slave population,

979
00:55:36,080 --> 00:55:40,080
right?
If they are people, does this

980
00:55:40,080 --> 00:55:42,840
apply, right.
And the same question was asked

981
00:55:42,840 --> 00:55:44,840
about the Mormons.
That's a fairpoint.

982
00:55:45,520 --> 00:55:49,840
So yes.
So the documentary hypothesis,

983
00:55:50,520 --> 00:55:53,000
the analogy of the north and the
South in our history is really

984
00:55:53,000 --> 00:55:56,640
helpful because among the
Israelites you have the north,

985
00:55:56,680 --> 00:56:00,400
northern and southern kingdoms.
The north was led by Ephraim,

986
00:56:01,040 --> 00:56:03,320
the South by Judah, essentially,
right?

987
00:56:03,320 --> 00:56:09,160
N was bigger, the 10 tribes
versus like 3 1/2 depending on

988
00:56:09,160 --> 00:56:11,160
that way you slice it in the
South because really there's 13

989
00:56:11,160 --> 00:56:15,440
tribes, you know, and Levi's
weird because they didn't have

990
00:56:15,440 --> 00:56:17,880
their own inheritance and see if
Levites throughout.

991
00:56:18,720 --> 00:56:24,680
But a big portion of the
Levites, Benjamin and Judah

992
00:56:24,680 --> 00:56:26,520
essentially end up being
together, right?

993
00:56:28,240 --> 00:56:31,040
Well, and they go to war with
each other too.

994
00:56:31,280 --> 00:56:35,080
So, you know, at times and
things cool off, but at first

995
00:56:35,080 --> 00:56:40,720
they were not on good terms.
And the Lord was trying to work

996
00:56:40,720 --> 00:56:44,560
with the northern Kingdom and
establish prophets there and

997
00:56:44,560 --> 00:56:48,120
kings there.
And this seems like things were

998
00:56:48,120 --> 00:56:51,760
messed up pretty early on.
Although part of me wonders if

999
00:56:51,760 --> 00:56:53,800
the story we aren't told is
indifferent because now we're

1000
00:56:53,800 --> 00:56:55,320
dealing with this propaganda
machine.

1001
00:56:55,480 --> 00:56:57,440
Where does where does our
scriptures come from?

1002
00:56:57,440 --> 00:57:00,480
The South, generally.
Now the answer is actually both,

1003
00:57:00,680 --> 00:57:03,360
but it does come ultimately more
to the influence of the southern

1004
00:57:03,360 --> 00:57:04,880
Kingdom.
Because the northern Kingdom was

1005
00:57:04,880 --> 00:57:12,200
destroyed by Assyria, right?
Right. 120 years before the

1006
00:57:12,200 --> 00:57:14,720
southern Kingdom was destroyed
by Babylon, right?

1007
00:57:14,720 --> 00:57:18,640
But at least the Southern
Kingdom returns after 70 years

1008
00:57:18,640 --> 00:57:23,080
back to Jerusalem, right?
Archaeology shows that the

1009
00:57:23,080 --> 00:57:27,160
population of the Southern
Kingdom increased explosively

1010
00:57:27,440 --> 00:57:30,400
around 720 BC.
Right.

1011
00:57:30,720 --> 00:57:32,960
Which is when the northern
Kingdom fell, right?

1012
00:57:33,560 --> 00:57:36,400
It's when all the refugees, all
the Ephraimites and the

1013
00:57:36,400 --> 00:57:40,160
Manassaites and all those people
came fleeing to their neighbor

1014
00:57:40,160 --> 00:57:42,600
because Assyria was worse than
Judah's.

1015
00:57:42,720 --> 00:57:45,680
Right.
And so now you have two groups

1016
00:57:45,680 --> 00:57:48,400
of people in the same nation
that have been separate for a

1017
00:57:48,400 --> 00:57:51,360
few 100 years that have
different versions of their

1018
00:57:51,360 --> 00:57:55,840
scripture and their history.
So the documentary hypothesis

1019
00:57:56,280 --> 00:57:59,840
hypothesis is that there's two
different original sources,

1020
00:58:00,200 --> 00:58:06,520
scholars called E, they call it
E&J, OK, which might as well

1021
00:58:06,520 --> 00:58:07,920
stand for E from Judah.
That's.

1022
00:58:07,920 --> 00:58:11,400
Kind of what I was going with.
But it's it's Elohist for

1023
00:58:11,400 --> 00:58:15,640
Elohim, right?
And y'all for, for Jehovah, for

1024
00:58:15,680 --> 00:58:17,240
Yahwist.
Because Germans.

1025
00:58:17,280 --> 00:58:21,520
The German guy that postulated
this theory, Jay is for Jehovah.

1026
00:58:21,520 --> 00:58:23,120
And do you, do you subscribe to
that?

1027
00:58:23,560 --> 00:58:25,360
I'm big into this right now.
OK?

1028
00:58:26,800 --> 00:58:31,360
Because it tends to give the
restoration huge support.

1029
00:58:31,560 --> 00:58:35,040
Because Joseph Smith told us we
believe the Bible to be the word

1030
00:58:35,040 --> 00:58:38,280
of God in as much as it is
translated correctly, right?

1031
00:58:39,800 --> 00:58:42,480
And what do we believe in the
Book of Mormon is it's a big

1032
00:58:42,480 --> 00:58:46,840
anthology of records kept by a
Nephite nation.

1033
00:58:47,840 --> 00:58:49,120
The Bible's essentially the same
thing.

1034
00:58:49,120 --> 00:58:51,600
The Old Testament, at least the
New Testament, is a little bit

1035
00:58:51,600 --> 00:58:53,800
different.
But then the Bible is just the

1036
00:58:53,800 --> 00:58:56,280
sandwich of the New Testament,
which is it's entirely different

1037
00:58:56,280 --> 00:59:00,160
genre of testimonies.
And then the Old Testament,

1038
00:59:00,160 --> 00:59:04,520
which itself is a library and
collection and anthology of the

1039
00:59:04,520 --> 00:59:08,920
prophets and the histories of
two different kingdoms, right?

1040
00:59:09,720 --> 00:59:12,680
And this may this, this also
makes the brothers motif super

1041
00:59:12,680 --> 00:59:14,920
interesting too, because you
have it's Ephraim and Judah, But

1042
00:59:14,920 --> 00:59:17,160
then you see all over again the
Cain and Abel, right?

1043
00:59:17,360 --> 00:59:20,440
Isaac and and Ishmael, Jacob and
Esau.

1044
00:59:20,440 --> 00:59:24,040
You don't think of it no, in
that breakdown, But now it

1045
00:59:24,040 --> 00:59:26,000
starts to make sense.
There's there's this brother

1046
00:59:26,000 --> 00:59:29,880
motif all throughout.
Well, and, and now we start

1047
00:59:29,880 --> 00:59:32,960
asking questions.
We ask different questions,

1048
00:59:32,960 --> 00:59:35,720
right?
Because for a long time there

1049
00:59:35,720 --> 00:59:38,080
was this theory that, yeah, as
long as it's translated

1050
00:59:38,080 --> 00:59:41,240
correctly.
So we're thinking post apostasy

1051
00:59:41,520 --> 00:59:45,480
is when all those things are.
Changed but but but if if.

1052
00:59:45,600 --> 00:59:48,400
What you're, what you're saying
here is correct.

1053
00:59:48,840 --> 00:59:52,280
Well, now all of a sudden we
have to ask the question, how

1054
00:59:52,280 --> 00:59:55,320
much where?
Where does, where does the the

1055
00:59:55,320 --> 00:59:59,800
Holy Writ start and end?
And where does the propaganda

1056
00:59:59,800 --> 01:00:01,360
pick up?
Right.

1057
01:00:01,360 --> 01:00:05,120
And so, and maybe it's not even
that cut and dry and it's just

1058
01:00:05,120 --> 01:00:07,800
the way people view things and
it's either, it's not like one's

1059
01:00:07,800 --> 01:00:09,760
going to be always right and the
other's going to be always

1060
01:00:09,760 --> 01:00:12,000
wrong, right?
It can't be just like, it's like

1061
01:00:12,040 --> 01:00:14,720
the crime scene thing.
Right, right, right.

1062
01:00:14,880 --> 01:00:18,800
What's the perspective?
And so we start to see a

1063
01:00:18,840 --> 01:00:25,000
coalescing of a narrative, a
unified narrative in 720 ish

1064
01:00:25,000 --> 01:00:30,160
from two different kingdoms.
But we see through text critical

1065
01:00:30,160 --> 01:00:34,600
analysis that OK, some things
seem to be sandwiched together,

1066
01:00:35,240 --> 01:00:37,320
right?
And the flood story is one of

1067
01:00:37,320 --> 01:00:40,480
those things, right?
But also interesting if you

1068
01:00:40,480 --> 01:00:44,960
didn't pick up on this, but I
think you did calling these

1069
01:00:45,080 --> 01:00:48,320
different origins or these
different, these different

1070
01:00:49,080 --> 01:00:53,840
texts, these primary texts,
Elohist and yawistic based on

1071
01:00:53,840 --> 01:00:56,280
the names of the they, the
different groups used for God,

1072
01:00:56,640 --> 01:01:00,080
Elohim and Jehovah.
Isn't that super interesting?

1073
01:01:00,320 --> 01:01:05,920
Yeah, because the, the church
has trademarked Elohim, Jehovah

1074
01:01:06,960 --> 01:01:11,760
being the Father, right, our
heavenly Father God senior,

1075
01:01:11,760 --> 01:01:13,680
right.
And then Jehovah is Jesus

1076
01:01:13,680 --> 01:01:18,240
Christ, the right.
But really truly linguistically,

1077
01:01:18,800 --> 01:01:23,000
Elohim was the preferred name
for the Ephraimites right before

1078
01:01:23,000 --> 01:01:24,360
7:20.
Yeah.

1079
01:01:25,040 --> 01:01:29,000
And Jehovah was the preferred
name for God along the ground

1080
01:01:29,000 --> 01:01:31,160
before 720.
And now you have to have the

1081
01:01:31,160 --> 01:01:33,800
synergy of the two together.
And that's why you get the

1082
01:01:33,800 --> 01:01:36,080
contraction Lord God in all
capital letters.

1083
01:01:36,080 --> 01:01:39,680
It's rendered in our English
King James as the Lord God, but

1084
01:01:39,680 --> 01:01:41,800
it's a contraction of Jehovah,
Elohim.

1085
01:01:43,520 --> 01:01:46,400
Interesting.
And why in certain chat and in

1086
01:01:46,400 --> 01:01:51,760
certain chapters like Genesis 1,
is Elohist?

1087
01:01:52,000 --> 01:01:55,000
Presumably because it's this
Elohim all the way through,

1088
01:01:55,440 --> 01:01:58,000
right?
And then chapter 2 of Genesis is

1089
01:01:58,000 --> 01:02:02,560
also the creation again, but
it's Jehovah the Lord.

1090
01:02:03,040 --> 01:02:06,080
And so it's like these are the
two different versions of the

1091
01:02:06,080 --> 01:02:11,560
creation from the north and the
South of that track, because

1092
01:02:11,560 --> 01:02:14,000
it's the way to keep a national
unity now.

1093
01:02:14,280 --> 01:02:16,760
Right.
To establish that universal

1094
01:02:16,920 --> 01:02:20,800
religious unity, the only
inhabitants of the of what is

1095
01:02:20,800 --> 01:02:23,760
the only Israelitish Kingdom
left, which is Judah.

1096
01:02:23,960 --> 01:02:26,600
Right, ma'am?
That's fascinating.

1097
01:02:26,680 --> 01:02:29,920
Yeah.
And so you see these motifs pop

1098
01:02:29,920 --> 01:02:31,400
up.
It's called, you start seeing

1099
01:02:31,400 --> 01:02:34,120
things like doublets.
It's all the, and this is mind

1100
01:02:34,120 --> 01:02:35,720
blowing stuff.
Here's another one that's not

1101
01:02:35,720 --> 01:02:41,640
Noah, but you have this motif of
the kings of the of the land

1102
01:02:41,640 --> 01:02:44,640
trying to steal Abraham's wife,
right?

1103
01:02:45,280 --> 01:02:48,320
It happens once with Abraham and
Sarah and Pharaoh.

1104
01:02:49,120 --> 01:02:52,360
It happens another time with
Abraham and Sarah and the king

1105
01:02:52,360 --> 01:02:56,800
of the Philistines, Abimelech.
And then it happens again with

1106
01:02:56,880 --> 01:03:00,440
Isaac and Rebecca and the king
of the Philistines, Abimelech.

1107
01:03:00,760 --> 01:03:05,240
Interesting that three times,
did it really happen three

1108
01:03:05,240 --> 01:03:07,120
times?
Or is it the sandwiching of the

1109
01:03:07,120 --> 01:03:09,120
oral traditions?
And maybe the north was saying

1110
01:03:09,880 --> 01:03:12,680
this happened to Isaac and the
South is saying no, that

1111
01:03:12,680 --> 01:03:14,600
happened to Abraham.
And then other people are

1112
01:03:14,600 --> 01:03:17,560
saying, well, that happened with
Abraham between the Philistines

1113
01:03:17,560 --> 01:03:20,560
or the Egyptians.
Interesting, because it's weird

1114
01:03:20,560 --> 01:03:24,440
that like it's like the saying
of every time I have that

1115
01:03:24,440 --> 01:03:26,880
happened if I had a nickel.
You know right You.

1116
01:03:27,840 --> 01:03:30,800
Know like except for you
wouldn't have many nickels, but

1117
01:03:30,800 --> 01:03:32,880
it's weird that you wouldn't be
rich, but it's weird that it

1118
01:03:32,880 --> 01:03:34,160
happened more than twice or more
than.

1119
01:03:34,160 --> 01:03:36,360
Twice, right?
Yeah, absolutely.

1120
01:03:37,120 --> 01:03:41,480
You start seeing these things.
And anyway, so let's get into

1121
01:03:41,560 --> 01:03:44,280
the flood version of this, OK,
OK.

1122
01:03:45,000 --> 01:03:50,560
The flood story is, it seems
there's other sources, by the

1123
01:03:50,560 --> 01:03:52,960
way, there's later sources,
there's the Deuteronomist, which

1124
01:03:52,960 --> 01:03:56,240
seems to be a revision around
600 BC at the time of Lehigh and

1125
01:03:56,240 --> 01:04:00,080
Jeremiah and Ishmael.
And then there's a priestly

1126
01:04:00,080 --> 01:04:04,640
revision probably with Ezra and
Nehemiah after the return from

1127
01:04:04,640 --> 01:04:09,200
captivity.
So this isn't, this seems to be

1128
01:04:09,600 --> 01:04:14,000
J Well, this seems to be a
southern, the Southern narrative

1129
01:04:14,000 --> 01:04:17,400
and a later priestly narrative,
right?

1130
01:04:17,680 --> 01:04:21,920
Yeah.
So God says that humans are

1131
01:04:21,920 --> 01:04:25,560
wicked twice for different
reasons in chapter 6 of Genesis,

1132
01:04:25,800 --> 01:04:27,360
right.
So that's weird.

1133
01:04:27,680 --> 01:04:28,840
Yeah.
Says that they're wicked and

1134
01:04:28,840 --> 01:04:30,120
he's going to wipe wipe them
out.

1135
01:04:30,440 --> 01:04:34,760
Says it twice.
Twice with 7 verses apart from

1136
01:04:34,760 --> 01:04:35,960
each other for different
reasons.

1137
01:04:36,320 --> 01:04:37,760
Interesting.
But when you're don't, when you

1138
01:04:37,760 --> 01:04:39,160
don't know it, you're not going
to pick it up.

1139
01:04:39,640 --> 01:04:42,120
But it's super interesting.
Next God tells no.

1140
01:04:42,160 --> 01:04:45,960
Yeah, so he says.
God says that they're wicked.

1141
01:04:46,200 --> 01:04:49,720
Then God tells Noah of his
decision to wipe all out, all of

1142
01:04:49,720 --> 01:04:50,880
life.
Twice.

1143
01:04:51,800 --> 01:04:54,240
That's repeated.
Redundant.

1144
01:04:54,240 --> 01:04:57,920
Almost right?
God tells to gather each pair of

1145
01:04:57,920 --> 01:05:00,360
animal species that put them on
the ark twice.

1146
01:05:00,560 --> 01:05:04,000
Holy cow.
The story records that Noah

1147
01:05:04,000 --> 01:05:06,120
fulfills all that God commanded
him to do.

1148
01:05:06,200 --> 01:05:11,080
Twice the flood starts.
Twice the animals get on the

1149
01:05:11,080 --> 01:05:12,000
ark.
Twice.

1150
01:05:12,560 --> 01:05:16,800
The floodwaters lift the ark
twice and all the humans on the

1151
01:05:16,800 --> 01:05:19,840
earth die or are wiped out twice
in the span of two chapters.

1152
01:05:20,560 --> 01:05:26,760
And at the very end, Noah sends
out a Raven to look for dry

1153
01:05:26,760 --> 01:05:30,120
land, and then he sends out a
dove to look for dry land.

1154
01:05:30,400 --> 01:05:32,880
So what?
So your, your your contention

1155
01:05:32,880 --> 01:05:34,920
here and forgive me if I'm I'm
trying to follow this.

1156
01:05:34,920 --> 01:05:36,840
Yeah, yeah, I know.
I know how it sounds.

1157
01:05:36,880 --> 01:05:42,040
Your your is your contention
here that that were reading two

1158
01:05:42,040 --> 01:05:44,320
different accounts that have
been put back together?

1159
01:05:44,320 --> 01:05:47,160
They've been stitched like this,
so people who don't have the

1160
01:05:47,160 --> 01:05:49,840
video won't be able to see what
I'm doing, but I'm just lacing

1161
01:05:49,840 --> 01:05:53,640
my fingers together and they're
amalgamating it in a really

1162
01:05:53,640 --> 01:05:57,760
slipshod way.
And so we can, some people have

1163
01:05:57,760 --> 01:06:00,000
done research on this and you
can actually based on the

1164
01:06:00,000 --> 01:06:04,280
language and the, the, the
language changes right between

1165
01:06:04,280 --> 01:06:07,840
this and you can kind of see,
oh, this verse is grammatically

1166
01:06:07,840 --> 01:06:09,640
or stylistically different than
this.

1167
01:06:09,840 --> 01:06:13,920
And so you kind of separate them
and pull them apart and they all

1168
01:06:13,960 --> 01:06:17,960
read like 1 narrative
interesting without the doublets

1169
01:06:17,960 --> 01:06:19,520
now.
So you can literally pull it

1170
01:06:19,520 --> 01:06:22,080
apart and read it differently if
people have done work on this.

1171
01:06:22,080 --> 01:06:25,720
In fact, during on our chat for
the class, I'll post a PDF of

1172
01:06:25,720 --> 01:06:26,800
it.
OK.

1173
01:06:26,800 --> 01:06:28,800
I think it would be really
boring for us to read these

1174
01:06:28,960 --> 01:06:30,040
back.
Sure, sure.

1175
01:06:30,040 --> 01:06:34,720
For us, yeah, absolutely.
But it ends with yeah, with even

1176
01:06:34,720 --> 01:06:37,720
down to the detail of the animal
being different, with the the

1177
01:06:37,720 --> 01:06:39,480
Raven and the dove being right
and.

1178
01:06:41,840 --> 01:06:44,600
It's so so it's yeah, it's this
stitching together so.

1179
01:06:44,760 --> 01:06:46,760
In the old Bible's a lot, it has
a lot of stuff like.

1180
01:06:47,120 --> 01:06:50,400
That So what, let me ask you
this, what can we point to

1181
01:06:50,400 --> 01:06:52,240
because we know the separation,
right?

1182
01:06:52,240 --> 01:06:56,160
We know how that happens, but
what's the coming back together?

1183
01:06:56,200 --> 01:07:00,400
I mean, what's the impetus for
the stitching it back together?

1184
01:07:00,840 --> 01:07:06,040
Trying to keep peace between
like so that you get all these

1185
01:07:06,120 --> 01:07:09,600
Ephraimites and Judaites living
together and you're not going to

1186
01:07:09,600 --> 01:07:11,440
say, well, we're going to go
with Judah on that one and

1187
01:07:11,440 --> 01:07:14,840
alienate all the Ephraimites.
And so it's just political unity

1188
01:07:14,840 --> 01:07:18,200
perhaps OK, but it's but it's
really like, OK, is this really

1189
01:07:18,200 --> 01:07:20,080
a problem?
No, because this is this.

1190
01:07:20,080 --> 01:07:25,040
Is it any salvific issue?
No, it's it's not a problem.

1191
01:07:25,040 --> 01:07:26,680
I just find it fascinating,
right?

1192
01:07:26,920 --> 01:07:30,920
It is, it is super fascinating.
But also Joseph in Egypt has

1193
01:07:30,920 --> 01:07:34,400
some of this too, where in one
verse it says, I don't have all

1194
01:07:34,400 --> 01:07:36,240
the I, I might have some of
these details wrong.

1195
01:07:36,760 --> 01:07:40,000
But in one verse it says that
the Midianites came and took

1196
01:07:40,000 --> 01:07:42,800
Joseph when he was in the pit.
And then others, I think it was

1197
01:07:42,800 --> 01:07:44,560
the Egyptians, right?
Or the Ishmaelites, the

1198
01:07:44,560 --> 01:07:46,200
Midianites, right?
Yeah, Ishmaelites and the

1199
01:07:46,200 --> 01:07:51,520
Midianites.
And some it says Reuben, it was

1200
01:07:51,520 --> 01:07:54,280
Reuben's idea to sell them, and
then another's it was Judah's.

1201
01:07:54,880 --> 01:07:57,400
Right, OK.
And.

1202
01:07:57,400 --> 01:08:00,560
So why would that be the case?
Why would that be the case?

1203
01:08:00,560 --> 01:08:05,360
Because Judah, right, Judah, the
North Kingdom would say Judah

1204
01:08:05,360 --> 01:08:09,640
sold rock boy Joseph right into
slavery.

1205
01:08:10,080 --> 01:08:14,000
And the Jews would say, no,
Reuben in the Northern Kingdom

1206
01:08:14,000 --> 01:08:18,279
sold Joseph from slavery.
And so they're misremembering or

1207
01:08:18,279 --> 01:08:22,840
remembering details depending on
who they're throwing shade at.

1208
01:08:22,840 --> 01:08:24,800
Political.
And then you then you have to

1209
01:08:24,920 --> 01:08:27,279
ask the question.
Maybe it's somewhere in the

1210
01:08:27,279 --> 01:08:28,880
middle.
Somewhere, maybe it's some,

1211
01:08:28,880 --> 01:08:31,279
maybe that should somewhere in
the middle, yes.

1212
01:08:31,319 --> 01:08:32,640
Absolutely.
And you know, this is

1213
01:08:32,640 --> 01:08:36,680
interesting and and OK, now I I
might be treading into some

1214
01:08:36,680 --> 01:08:38,800
dangerous.
Water here, there, that's true.

1215
01:08:39,399 --> 01:08:41,160
But you know where I'm going.
I don't.

1216
01:08:41,160 --> 01:08:43,399
I just think that this is this
is stuff that most people

1217
01:08:43,399 --> 01:08:48,000
probably are jarring.
With now, now this these two

1218
01:08:48,000 --> 01:08:51,000
same accounts that you were just
talking about, right?

1219
01:08:51,000 --> 01:08:55,800
With Joseph, with Joseph, I
think this has very interesting

1220
01:08:55,800 --> 01:09:00,720
parallels to fundamentalism, OK,
Especially when you start

1221
01:09:00,720 --> 01:09:04,319
talking about the Council North
and the Council S well, bro,

1222
01:09:04,720 --> 01:09:08,160
right, I'm just saying.
It's it's no, that's so true.

1223
01:09:08,240 --> 01:09:11,399
It's it's eerily similar, right.
And I've heard both sides too.

1224
01:09:11,399 --> 01:09:12,920
And I've always just said I
don't have skin in the game

1225
01:09:12,920 --> 01:09:15,200
because I was me neither.
You and I weren't born into the

1226
01:09:15,600 --> 01:09:17,040
the families on either side,
right?

1227
01:09:17,080 --> 01:09:18,520
I don't.
I don't have.

1228
01:09:18,520 --> 01:09:21,760
Skin in this game.
So I'm always I I'm always

1229
01:09:21,960 --> 01:09:27,439
interested and and desirous to
hear what what, what the two

1230
01:09:27,439 --> 01:09:31,760
camps say, right.
But at some point, at some point

1231
01:09:31,760 --> 01:09:33,800
we're kind of like 100 years
removed.

1232
01:09:33,800 --> 01:09:37,240
Now we are.
And it's like, does it change

1233
01:09:37,240 --> 01:09:39,560
the motif?
I don't think it does.

1234
01:09:39,600 --> 01:09:41,720
It doesn't, right.
So yeah, it's so interesting

1235
01:09:41,800 --> 01:09:43,600
because.
The but it's the same thing,

1236
01:09:43,600 --> 01:09:45,080
right?
I mean, yeah, a counter

1237
01:09:45,080 --> 01:09:46,960
argument.
Can be made that like OK did

1238
01:09:46,960 --> 01:09:51,600
Isaac Isaac beguiled Jacob No,
no or Jacob beguiled Isaac to

1239
01:09:51,600 --> 01:09:54,600
get the blessing and but it was
valid in the eyes of the

1240
01:09:54,600 --> 01:09:58,160
scriptures and that could be the
defense against the Southern

1241
01:09:58,160 --> 01:10:01,000
Council for rule and Allred's
calling you know.

1242
01:10:01,000 --> 01:10:06,520
But then there's I'm also like
sometimes one man ISM seems to

1243
01:10:07,280 --> 01:10:09,480
be a problem and I'm more for
the council type thing.

1244
01:10:09,480 --> 01:10:13,400
So I I also get why the council
was like maybe we don't want to

1245
01:10:13,400 --> 01:10:16,040
sustain rule in all red too.
I get both sides.

1246
01:10:16,040 --> 01:10:18,520
I do too.
I get both sides as well, right?

1247
01:10:18,880 --> 01:10:23,040
And and I, I I just find that
the parallel is interesting.

1248
01:10:23,040 --> 01:10:25,360
That's.
That's a very good observation,

1249
01:10:25,360 --> 01:10:28,120
I think.
I mean right down to North and

1250
01:10:28,120 --> 01:10:29,960
South, right?
It is.

1251
01:10:30,000 --> 01:10:35,000
It is so, yeah.
Also throughout the this

1252
01:10:35,000 --> 01:10:38,360
narrative of the flood, you have
Elohim and Jehovah popping up as

1253
01:10:38,360 --> 01:10:43,600
different names right throughout
cohesively as you separate right

1254
01:10:45,280 --> 01:10:48,960
Also another the terminology is
sometimes like in some in one

1255
01:10:48,960 --> 01:10:53,520
version, in one part of the
original, you know it says God

1256
01:10:53,520 --> 01:10:57,760
destroys the earth and in the
other verses it says God wipes

1257
01:10:57,760 --> 01:11:01,000
off the face of the earth.
OK, destroys the earth, wipes

1258
01:11:01,000 --> 01:11:02,800
off the face of the.
Earth.

1259
01:11:03,440 --> 01:11:06,720
Or the surface of the Earth or
ground?

1260
01:11:06,880 --> 01:11:12,120
Yeah, the surface of the of the
ground dries and the earth dries

1261
01:11:12,200 --> 01:11:13,880
is the other doublet.
Right.

1262
01:11:14,240 --> 01:11:17,200
And it says it in different
places, so it's different

1263
01:11:17,200 --> 01:11:19,840
language, consistent and like as
if it was two different

1264
01:11:19,840 --> 01:11:23,040
narratives put together and you
get all this repetition.

1265
01:11:23,440 --> 01:11:25,040
Also there's.
Yeah, there's apparent

1266
01:11:25,040 --> 01:11:29,000
contradictions that this brings
in when I really analyze it.

1267
01:11:29,000 --> 01:11:32,880
Like is Noah supposed to bring
one pair of each kind of animal?

1268
01:11:32,880 --> 01:11:35,480
Or is he supposed to bring 7
pairs of clean animals plus

1269
01:11:35,480 --> 01:11:37,560
birds and only one pair of
unclean animals?

1270
01:11:38,400 --> 01:11:41,320
Because one of the versions says
bring two of every kind, and

1271
01:11:41,640 --> 01:11:46,560
then the other narrative spliced
in says bring seven of every

1272
01:11:46,560 --> 01:11:49,440
kind of clean and two of every
unclean.

1273
01:11:49,960 --> 01:11:54,280
OK, All right.
You know what else I I was

1274
01:11:54,280 --> 01:11:58,480
thinking about the Noah story
and as far as the animals and

1275
01:11:58,480 --> 01:12:00,840
and follow me out and I'm
willing to be wrong on this.

1276
01:12:00,840 --> 01:12:03,200
So if you got something to push
back with it, I'm more

1277
01:12:03,440 --> 01:12:07,160
interested to hear.
I think Noah only takes animals

1278
01:12:07,320 --> 01:12:09,680
that haven't been domesticated
at that time.

1279
01:12:09,960 --> 01:12:13,440
I don't recall.
The reason I say that is that

1280
01:12:13,600 --> 01:12:16,360
you know the animals just come
and start loading up on the Ark,

1281
01:12:16,360 --> 01:12:17,560
right?
That's what it seems like.

1282
01:12:17,800 --> 01:12:20,400
So they're probably not in
captivity.

1283
01:12:21,520 --> 01:12:23,040
Right.
Gotcha.

1284
01:12:24,120 --> 01:12:26,000
Which is interesting to think
about, right?

1285
01:12:26,000 --> 01:12:29,200
Were there other animals that
were domesticated that were

1286
01:12:29,200 --> 01:12:32,480
subject to that same curse of
excessive violence?

1287
01:12:33,800 --> 01:12:36,520
Just the thought.
The the rabbinical, I think it's

1288
01:12:36,560 --> 01:12:41,760
reminiscent the Jewish tradition
is that the animals obeyed Noah

1289
01:12:41,760 --> 01:12:43,880
as Lord of the Earth, wearing
Adam's garments.

1290
01:12:44,280 --> 01:12:46,000
OK.
Well, that changes things, yeah.

1291
01:12:46,200 --> 01:12:49,840
But that's yeah, that changes.
That's the Mystic view, which is

1292
01:12:49,840 --> 01:12:53,120
fine, yeah.
Very plausible to me, Yeah.

1293
01:12:53,640 --> 01:12:58,120
It's also why he he nibbly says
that Nimrod, thus inheriting

1294
01:12:58,120 --> 01:13:03,000
that through ham, stealing it
and whatever abused it to claim

1295
01:13:03,000 --> 01:13:07,480
that he was this great hunter.
He's really just hacking the

1296
01:13:07,480 --> 01:13:10,720
system by wearing the garbage.
Yeah, he's he's basically doing

1297
01:13:10,720 --> 01:13:12,920
the thing where you're throwing
out the salt lick almost.

1298
01:13:13,080 --> 01:13:17,240
Yeah, to the deer to have him
walk up and then, OK, I got

1299
01:13:17,240 --> 01:13:18,840
shoot him right.
Yeah, yeah.

1300
01:13:19,520 --> 01:13:23,120
Interesting.
So the flood lasts 40 days and

1301
01:13:23,120 --> 01:13:26,960
nights, but it'll then it'll
also last for 150 days, right?

1302
01:13:28,600 --> 01:13:30,240
Right.
So contradictions.

1303
01:13:30,480 --> 01:13:35,240
Does God have a pact with Noah
from the beginning or is God

1304
01:13:35,240 --> 01:13:38,200
making a pact with Noah?
After Noah gets off the ark and

1305
01:13:38,200 --> 01:13:41,880
then builds an altar, offers a
sacrifice, God smells the sweet

1306
01:13:41,880 --> 01:13:46,520
smelling savour and says, oh,
I'm pleased Noah, but I'm not

1307
01:13:46,520 --> 01:13:48,520
going to destroy the earth and
I'll make a covenant with you

1308
01:13:48,520 --> 01:13:51,200
now.
So which is it now?

1309
01:13:51,200 --> 01:13:52,800
We would say both.
Latter day St. wise.

1310
01:13:52,800 --> 01:13:56,200
From a formal critical analysis,
it seems like there's

1311
01:13:56,200 --> 01:13:59,520
consistently different themes
and stories happening.

1312
01:13:59,560 --> 01:14:02,200
Absolutely it does.
It's interesting.

1313
01:14:03,440 --> 01:14:06,440
People will say that the
priestly text, because that's

1314
01:14:06,440 --> 01:14:08,160
what we're dealing with.
We're dealing with priestly and

1315
01:14:08,160 --> 01:14:10,240
Yahwist, not Elohist and
Yahwist.

1316
01:14:11,200 --> 01:14:13,480
The ways to identify there's,
there's certain ways to identify

1317
01:14:13,480 --> 01:14:16,760
priestly texts throughout the
scriptures because they're

1318
01:14:16,760 --> 01:14:21,200
elsewhere as well.
The priestly text is longer and

1319
01:14:21,200 --> 01:14:24,880
filled with technical details.
They love details.

1320
01:14:25,440 --> 01:14:28,360
Every time the scriptures are
going through details like

1321
01:14:28,360 --> 01:14:33,560
crazy, it's probably the priests
meeting the authors of, of

1322
01:14:34,280 --> 01:14:38,080
splicing in a version of
something or, or or amending it,

1323
01:14:38,400 --> 01:14:41,960
right.
So all the details how to build

1324
01:14:41,960 --> 01:14:45,960
the ark, finish it to a cubit,
300 cubits by whatever, by

1325
01:14:45,960 --> 01:14:49,240
whatever, by whatever, you shall
pitch it within and without with

1326
01:14:49,240 --> 01:14:53,000
pitch all those things.
The priests love the details.

1327
01:14:53,720 --> 01:14:57,080
Furthermore, God plans the
covenant in advance and no

1328
01:14:57,080 --> 01:15:00,000
sacrifices mentioned in the
priest lever and once you take

1329
01:15:00,000 --> 01:15:03,440
them apart.
PS Description or the priest's

1330
01:15:03,440 --> 01:15:08,320
description of the flood is also
closely connected with a part of

1331
01:15:08,320 --> 01:15:11,240
the P creation story concerning
the creation and the separation

1332
01:15:11,240 --> 01:15:13,360
of the waters from the earth in
Genesis.

1333
01:15:13,640 --> 01:15:16,840
Right.
The Yahwist text is shorter and

1334
01:15:16,840 --> 01:15:20,360
has fewer specifics.
Nevertheless, it's a count of

1335
01:15:20,360 --> 01:15:23,200
the bird.
Looking for land is longer, and

1336
01:15:23,200 --> 01:15:26,200
it includes the sacrifice.
And the story of Noah getting

1337
01:15:26,200 --> 01:15:31,280
drunk like PJ's flood connects
it to the creation story, which

1338
01:15:31,280 --> 01:15:34,640
begins with the need for rain.
However, instead of undoing

1339
01:15:34,640 --> 01:15:39,920
creation as in the P source J
reflects an overabundance of the

1340
01:15:39,920 --> 01:15:42,880
creative force rain, which
destroys life.

1341
01:15:43,840 --> 01:15:47,200
The sacrifice fits with Jay's
world view that the ancients did

1342
01:15:47,200 --> 01:15:49,000
sacrifices.
That's going to be important in

1343
01:15:49,000 --> 01:15:53,720
a second while peace while in
the priestly source, sacrifice

1344
01:15:53,720 --> 01:15:56,840
began only after the
construction and sanctification

1345
01:15:56,840 --> 01:15:59,760
of divinely of the divinely
sanctioned Tabernacle.

1346
01:16:00,520 --> 01:16:02,320
Are you picking up one of the
button down there?

1347
01:16:02,480 --> 01:16:07,760
So the priestly narrative with
the flood omitted Noah offering

1348
01:16:07,760 --> 01:16:09,080
sacrifice.
Because.

1349
01:16:09,080 --> 01:16:13,280
Because that was only a only.
Levites can do it, which goes

1350
01:16:13,280 --> 01:16:16,960
back to our Jewish sectaries of
the time of Christ saying our

1351
01:16:17,000 --> 01:16:20,720
Enoch priesthood stuff predates
the levers, right.

1352
01:16:21,560 --> 01:16:26,080
And so there's been a there's
been a tension, yeah, here for a

1353
01:16:26,080 --> 01:16:28,920
long time.
And, and it's so interesting to

1354
01:16:28,920 --> 01:16:36,480
get that, that look at it right,
because if you can tell that if

1355
01:16:36,520 --> 01:16:39,760
if what you're, you're saying
there has validity, which I

1356
01:16:39,760 --> 01:16:45,280
believe it does, it's that even
holy writ isn't necessarily.

1357
01:16:45,440 --> 01:16:48,600
Want more from the Mormon
Renegade podcast?

1358
01:16:48,920 --> 01:16:52,600
Head over to the Mormon Renegade
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1359
01:16:52,600 --> 01:16:56,400
videos from the podcast and the
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1360
01:16:56,400 --> 01:16:58,840
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1361
01:16:59,440 --> 01:17:03,400
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Locals page by clicking the red

1362
01:17:03,400 --> 01:17:07,360
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1363
01:17:07,360 --> 01:17:11,920
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1364
01:17:11,920 --> 01:17:15,040
live stream show with the host
Dave Sanders.

1365
01:17:15,520 --> 01:17:18,720
Click the link in this episode's
show notes today.

1366
01:17:19,120 --> 01:17:27,560
Even Holy Writ isn't necessarily
immune to well, and, and I think

1367
01:17:27,560 --> 01:17:29,120
we, we have to understand here
too.

1368
01:17:29,120 --> 01:17:31,080
I think this is a good place to
bring this up.

1369
01:17:31,800 --> 01:17:34,320
We look at it now as Holy Writ,
right?

1370
01:17:34,760 --> 01:17:37,720
Well, but yeah, yeah, OK, so
let's use like Protestant

1371
01:17:37,840 --> 01:17:40,960
Christians as the example.
They think God came and dictated

1372
01:17:40,960 --> 01:17:44,560
that thing word for word, the
Bible being that thing when they

1373
01:17:44,560 --> 01:17:47,760
were the ones that took out the
Apocrypha out of the the neutral

1374
01:17:47,760 --> 01:17:51,960
Canon outside the the end of the
the Catholic Bible and joints

1375
01:17:51,960 --> 01:17:53,840
that thing.
And then said says to us

1376
01:17:53,840 --> 01:17:57,680
Mormons, you can't take away
from this book without bringing.

1377
01:17:58,080 --> 01:18:03,000
Christ, right, right, right.
Well, and, and I, I think it's

1378
01:18:03,000 --> 01:18:06,640
important to realize too, that
we, we look at it as holy

1379
01:18:06,640 --> 01:18:08,840
written.
Now, I'm sure at the time it was

1380
01:18:08,840 --> 01:18:11,920
being written down that it's
just a record.

1381
01:18:12,400 --> 01:18:16,360
Yeah, some of it, some of it was
just that, you know, and, and so

1382
01:18:16,360 --> 01:18:19,960
we, we have to realize that yes,
it is inspired.

1383
01:18:20,040 --> 01:18:23,640
It is the word of God, but it's
also through filtered through

1384
01:18:23,640 --> 01:18:25,840
men.
So I've not done a deep dive on

1385
01:18:25,840 --> 01:18:29,920
Chronicles yet, but I've learned
in accordance with this theory.

1386
01:18:30,560 --> 01:18:36,760
That or this hypothesis.
I'll say it seems as if Joshua

1387
01:18:37,040 --> 01:18:42,480
judges first, second Samuel
first second kings are all Judah

1388
01:18:43,240 --> 01:18:45,680
history secular?
The sick, the secular history of

1389
01:18:45,680 --> 01:18:51,760
Judah with Deuteronomy reforms
from 600 BC in addition to the

1390
01:18:51,760 --> 01:18:54,560
original comp or the the
compilation that it would have

1391
01:18:54,560 --> 01:18:57,440
been in its pre existent form
and before 720 before it got

1392
01:18:57,440 --> 01:19:02,880
compiled with northern stuff.
But Chronicles is the northern

1393
01:19:02,880 --> 01:19:06,760
side of the debate.
Interesting.

1394
01:19:06,760 --> 01:19:08,880
And it's no one really goes
through that because like it

1395
01:19:08,880 --> 01:19:13,560
starts with the all the
genealogy, right again.

1396
01:19:13,560 --> 01:19:14,680
And it's just like hard to get
through.

1397
01:19:15,120 --> 01:19:18,440
But when it gets really gets
going, it's like Ephraim's point

1398
01:19:18,440 --> 01:19:23,880
of view, OK, on some things.
And so there's conflict there

1399
01:19:23,880 --> 01:19:25,840
again between kings and
Chronicles.

1400
01:19:26,560 --> 01:19:28,440
Interesting.
Yeah.

1401
01:19:30,080 --> 01:19:32,240
It just casts a whole new light
on it, right?

1402
01:19:32,240 --> 01:19:35,080
The Bible is my favorite book.
I also want to state that for

1403
01:19:35,080 --> 01:19:36,840
this podcast, the Bible by far
is my.

1404
01:19:36,840 --> 01:19:39,080
Favorite book?
Well, and and here here's the

1405
01:19:39,080 --> 01:19:42,040
thing, right?
Some people will hear this and

1406
01:19:42,040 --> 01:19:46,160
think, well, are you
discrediting the Bible's divine

1407
01:19:50,600 --> 01:19:51,440
status?
Yeah.

1408
01:19:51,440 --> 01:19:53,320
Thank you.
I was blanking on the Word

1409
01:19:53,760 --> 01:19:55,760
That's not it at all.
Nope, I don't think so.

1410
01:19:55,960 --> 01:19:58,920
I don't think we are one bit
calling into question the

1411
01:19:58,920 --> 01:20:02,280
Bible's divinity.
I think what we are saying is

1412
01:20:02,280 --> 01:20:05,800
that these things still get
filtered through.

1413
01:20:05,800 --> 01:20:07,960
Men, they do.
And the Book of Mormon says that

1414
01:20:08,000 --> 01:20:10,680
Mormon bro and I, whoever's, you
know, writing that last page,

1415
01:20:10,680 --> 01:20:14,920
right, If they be the mistakes,
yeah, mistakes in this book,

1416
01:20:15,200 --> 01:20:16,640
it's the mistakes of men and not
God.

1417
01:20:16,880 --> 01:20:18,440
Yeah, I guess.
Guess what?

1418
01:20:18,560 --> 01:20:21,360
He had to do the same thing.
Not that Morona.

1419
01:20:21,360 --> 01:20:24,520
I'm accusing Mormon or Morona of
having Mal intentions, but he

1420
01:20:24,520 --> 01:20:28,280
had to work with other people's
records.

1421
01:20:28,320 --> 01:20:29,480
Yep.
Yep.

1422
01:20:30,080 --> 01:20:31,920
And, and here's the other thing,
right?

1423
01:20:32,240 --> 01:20:37,040
We even see this blatantly in
the New Testament, right when it

1424
01:20:37,040 --> 01:20:39,560
talks about the apostles running
to the tomb.

1425
01:20:39,880 --> 01:20:42,560
And I can't remember which one
just decides to put in there.

1426
01:20:43,040 --> 01:20:47,920
And I, and I got there further,
I'm like, what, what the Hell's

1427
01:20:47,920 --> 01:20:50,960
going on here, right?
Like you can tell there's even

1428
01:20:50,960 --> 01:20:54,120
maybe some tension there, right?
There's like little distracts

1429
01:20:54,360 --> 01:20:55,840
between these people all the
time.

1430
01:20:56,120 --> 01:21:00,320
And, and I, I think that that,
and let me say this, those

1431
01:21:00,320 --> 01:21:05,440
hilarious, Well, it's hilarious.
But also I think we need to to

1432
01:21:05,440 --> 01:21:11,240
understand that even those
things I think are worthwhile to

1433
01:21:11,240 --> 01:21:17,120
us because we get now this
understanding that maybe

1434
01:21:17,120 --> 01:21:24,080
sometimes through man's folly a
little bit, certain things are

1435
01:21:24,080 --> 01:21:26,720
exposed that are useful for us,
right?

1436
01:21:27,240 --> 01:21:31,200
And and so even the things that
we would classify as human in

1437
01:21:31,200 --> 01:21:34,200
origin are really divinely.
Inspired.

1438
01:21:34,200 --> 01:21:37,240
Well, they are too, because
let's just go back to Genesis

1439
01:21:37,320 --> 01:21:40,440
and like, you and I aren't young
earth creationists, right?

1440
01:21:40,800 --> 01:21:47,880
But the creation, it's funny
enough some Christian scholars,

1441
01:21:47,880 --> 01:21:51,720
but more in the secular world
are starting to analyze Genesis

1442
01:21:52,280 --> 01:21:54,720
and be like, this is a temple
text.

1443
01:21:55,280 --> 01:21:58,120
No kidding.
And so what's more of value?

1444
01:21:58,280 --> 01:22:01,800
The fact that it's Genesis is
symbolic and teaching eternal

1445
01:22:01,800 --> 01:22:04,080
truths.
And it wasn't a literal science

1446
01:22:04,080 --> 01:22:06,920
handbook or a history textbook,
right?

1447
01:22:07,040 --> 01:22:08,880
What's more important?
I know what's more important.

1448
01:22:08,880 --> 01:22:11,640
To me, I know the temple, yeah.
Yeah, Yep.

1449
01:22:11,760 --> 01:22:17,240
And so to have whoever the
editor is or the writer give me

1450
01:22:17,240 --> 01:22:20,080
a version of events that's going
to teach me about eternal truths

1451
01:22:20,120 --> 01:22:24,720
and the temple versus, yeah, how
God slammed molecules together

1452
01:22:24,720 --> 01:22:26,240
in the cosmic super Collider to
make.

1453
01:22:26,400 --> 01:22:29,440
I don't care.
Yeah, I do care.

1454
01:22:29,440 --> 01:22:30,640
But it's a different
conversation.

1455
01:22:30,720 --> 01:22:34,080
It's a different conversation,
and it's one that that quite

1456
01:22:34,080 --> 01:22:38,800
frankly, doesn't carry the same
kind of eternal consequence.

1457
01:22:39,360 --> 01:22:40,560
Right.
No.

1458
01:22:40,560 --> 01:22:43,360
And I love science too, but it's
not the point of that book.

1459
01:22:43,560 --> 01:22:48,560
No, no.
It's not OK.

1460
01:22:48,640 --> 01:22:57,320
So also the images of God are
different between P&J and the

1461
01:22:57,320 --> 01:22:59,720
voice is also different.
OK.

1462
01:22:59,920 --> 01:23:07,080
So in J, it's the narrative kind
of sounds like it's first person

1463
01:23:07,080 --> 01:23:09,640
sometimes from God, like he's
thinking his own thoughts,

1464
01:23:09,720 --> 01:23:11,760
right?
And the narrator's think writing

1465
01:23:11,760 --> 01:23:18,280
as if God is thinking aloud kind
of thing, whereas the priestly

1466
01:23:18,280 --> 01:23:20,680
source does not use
anthropomorphic language about

1467
01:23:20,680 --> 01:23:24,160
God really well.
They don't believe that God's

1468
01:23:24,160 --> 01:23:27,080
anthropomorphic at that point
that the revised, that at the

1469
01:23:27,080 --> 01:23:30,520
point that that source comes in,
they've abandoned, they've

1470
01:23:30,520 --> 01:23:33,640
abandoned the idea of a
corporeal literal God.

1471
01:23:33,960 --> 01:23:36,040
But Jay's old enough that it
would have retained some of

1472
01:23:36,040 --> 01:23:36,880
that.
OK.

1473
01:23:38,560 --> 01:23:43,600
In Jay, God can change his mind
on certain things.

1474
01:23:43,600 --> 01:23:47,920
We've seen that right.
Yep, and with P, God has planned

1475
01:23:47,920 --> 01:23:50,440
everything in advance and it's
omniscient.

1476
01:23:51,320 --> 01:23:54,280
It's interesting they even get
they they're even fighting over

1477
01:23:54,280 --> 01:23:55,680
who God is.
Right.

1478
01:23:55,720 --> 01:23:58,880
Yep, Yep.
Which, again, is very Mormon in

1479
01:23:58,880 --> 01:24:01,440
some ways, right?
I mean, if you look at our

1480
01:24:01,440 --> 01:24:06,480
differences with the LDS church,
we argue, you know, they don't

1481
01:24:06,480 --> 01:24:09,920
argue about his God Oriel, but
we do argue about who he is.

1482
01:24:10,040 --> 01:24:11,160
Yeah, it's true.
That's very true.

1483
01:24:12,280 --> 01:24:18,320
So D&P are later sources than J
and EE, and it seems that they

1484
01:24:18,320 --> 01:24:23,400
are very concerned between 600
and 500 BC or so that there's

1485
01:24:23,400 --> 01:24:25,960
strict regulation regarding the
temple and priesthood

1486
01:24:25,960 --> 01:24:31,520
privileges, such as the central
locust in Jerusalem where there

1487
01:24:31,520 --> 01:24:34,880
used to be.
It seems even archaeologically,

1488
01:24:34,880 --> 01:24:38,200
that there used to be temples
outside of Jerusalem, but then

1489
01:24:38,200 --> 01:24:41,880
around 600 BC, and then after
the return from the captivity,

1490
01:24:42,560 --> 01:24:46,680
you could not offer sacrifices
or build rudimentary temple

1491
01:24:46,680 --> 01:24:49,640
shrines outside of the land of
Jerusalem, right?

1492
01:24:49,960 --> 01:24:53,080
When was that?
It starts being in force around

1493
01:24:53,080 --> 01:24:56,560
600 BC, the time that Lepi and
Jeremiah are around.

1494
01:24:56,920 --> 01:24:59,400
That's interesting because I
know that there has been some

1495
01:24:59,400 --> 01:25:02,120
recent discoveries where they
have found like.

1496
01:25:02,280 --> 01:25:04,440
Many temples.
Exactly that's what I'm saying

1497
01:25:04,440 --> 01:25:07,760
is the archaeology shows that
this wasn't the case that oh,

1498
01:25:07,840 --> 01:25:10,800
God said you can't have any
temple besides in Jerusalem.

1499
01:25:11,200 --> 01:25:15,680
But the Deuteronomist made the
Bible say that is it says, and

1500
01:25:15,680 --> 01:25:18,480
that's the biggest problem with
the with Jews and with

1501
01:25:18,480 --> 01:25:22,320
Christians against Mormons and
our temple stuff is they say the

1502
01:25:22,320 --> 01:25:25,120
scriptures say there's only one,
one place a temple can be, and

1503
01:25:25,120 --> 01:25:28,920
that's Jerusalem.
Except for it didn't until the

1504
01:25:28,920 --> 01:25:33,720
Deuteronomist got a hold.
Of it, yeah, Lehi in his land

1505
01:25:33,800 --> 01:25:38,160
operating a mini temple slash
altar situation, maybe because

1506
01:25:38,160 --> 01:25:43,200
he's got his temple right and
he's got this vision and he sees

1507
01:25:43,200 --> 01:25:46,600
God with a concourse of angels
around him, which is a circle,

1508
01:25:46,600 --> 01:25:49,280
by the way.
And so that's typical temple

1509
01:25:49,280 --> 01:25:54,320
stuff, you know, and then they
come and bring him a book, which

1510
01:25:54,320 --> 01:25:57,800
is more temple stuff.
And and so, but that's outlawed

1511
01:25:57,800 --> 01:26:01,960
by Deuteronomy and and by the
priests.

1512
01:26:02,000 --> 01:26:05,000
And the priests go to the extent
saying none of the patriarchs

1513
01:26:05,000 --> 01:26:07,200
even did sacrifice, but they
can't just get rid of it

1514
01:26:07,200 --> 01:26:10,440
wholesale because they had
enough remnant of Ephraim or

1515
01:26:10,440 --> 01:26:13,960
Judah from before that knew
that.

1516
01:26:13,960 --> 01:26:17,200
So the patriarchs offered
sacrifice, but they hated it

1517
01:26:17,200 --> 01:26:19,920
because it led to this question
of authority.

1518
01:26:19,920 --> 01:26:22,600
There's priesthood before Levi.
Right.

1519
01:26:23,040 --> 01:26:25,880
And and look, you can't get rid
of it totally, right?

1520
01:26:25,880 --> 01:26:30,800
Because I mean, Abraham, it's
offering sacrifices all the

1521
01:26:30,800 --> 01:26:33,840
time.
Yeah, and there's things like

1522
01:26:34,440 --> 01:26:39,520
the Deuteronomous say that all
the good kings are the ones that

1523
01:26:39,520 --> 01:26:45,080
went and destroyed these worship
sites with Groves, with sacred

1524
01:26:45,080 --> 01:26:49,080
trees or altars that were on the
tops of mountains.

1525
01:26:50,160 --> 01:26:52,680
Right.
And it makes it sound like they

1526
01:26:52,680 --> 01:26:55,680
were all Pagan gods.
That might be true, but it also

1527
01:26:55,680 --> 01:27:02,240
might be just be a narrative
politically to what's the word

1528
01:27:02,280 --> 01:27:08,040
correlate?
That word correlate, Yeah,

1529
01:27:08,520 --> 01:27:10,400
violently correlate everything,
right.

1530
01:27:11,800 --> 01:27:13,280
And.
So you're thinking that maybe

1531
01:27:13,280 --> 01:27:15,720
they went out and actually
destroyed some of these other

1532
01:27:15,720 --> 01:27:18,520
temples that were to the Lord?
Yeah.

1533
01:27:19,280 --> 01:27:21,200
And and actually got rid of
them.

1534
01:27:21,200 --> 01:27:23,040
Just to the horses.
So.

1535
01:27:23,040 --> 01:27:27,320
So vowel pointing became a thing
after Christ, which like

1536
01:27:27,520 --> 01:27:31,120
narrowly makes it so you have to
read the Old Testament a certain

1537
01:27:31,120 --> 01:27:33,320
way.
But and so some people start

1538
01:27:33,320 --> 01:27:35,760
reading things without the vowel
pointing to see how flexible the

1539
01:27:35,760 --> 01:27:38,600
Hebrew can be.
And Mike Day and Dave Butler on

1540
01:27:38,760 --> 01:27:41,560
on the stick of Joseph podcast
reward radio talked about this.

1541
01:27:42,280 --> 01:27:46,840
And I was like on some of this
before, but as I've got more

1542
01:27:46,840 --> 01:27:49,200
into this, I've really thinking
that there's some line of truth

1543
01:27:49,200 --> 01:27:51,600
with this.
But they say that King Josiah

1544
01:27:51,600 --> 01:27:54,000
killed the sodomites that were
in the temple.

1545
01:27:54,000 --> 01:27:57,400
And then people will say, oh,
that's so good of him because

1546
01:27:58,640 --> 01:28:00,360
how dare there be sodomites in
the temple.

1547
01:28:00,640 --> 01:28:05,600
But like the vowel pointing
makes it you forced to read it

1548
01:28:06,000 --> 01:28:08,440
sodomite.
But like if you don't do that, I

1549
01:28:08,440 --> 01:28:12,520
guess there's another word.
It's kemarim, OK, in Hebrew,

1550
01:28:13,680 --> 01:28:16,800
which is like a plural of
something that sounds a hell of

1551
01:28:16,800 --> 01:28:24,160
a lot like kimora, Kimora in
plural, which is also used as a

1552
01:28:24,760 --> 01:28:27,360
so like the book of Mormons.
Not written in Hebrew, right?

1553
01:28:27,360 --> 01:28:30,760
No, but we know based on
phonetics, kind of, sort of.

1554
01:28:30,760 --> 01:28:32,640
We can.
We can make good guesses

1555
01:28:32,640 --> 01:28:37,840
sometimes what the roots could
have been in Hebrew for a word.

1556
01:28:38,080 --> 01:28:42,400
Right.
This sounds like kimora a a word

1557
01:28:42,400 --> 01:28:46,200
in Hebrew that sounds like
kimora is like a word used for

1558
01:28:46,200 --> 01:28:48,720
priests sometimes.
Oh.

1559
01:28:49,000 --> 01:28:51,920
And so kimora, the hill kimora
can be.

1560
01:28:52,120 --> 01:28:53,880
Could have been the hill of
priests.

1561
01:28:54,280 --> 01:28:58,360
Got you.
OK, so back to this idea that

1562
01:28:58,360 --> 01:29:05,600
that you know, vowel pointing
that that sodomites have kind of

1563
01:29:05,600 --> 01:29:07,360
a different meaning.
Is that what I'm picking?

1564
01:29:07,480 --> 01:29:09,120
Up.
So it's a gloss over this old

1565
01:29:09,120 --> 01:29:13,560
term that you could be read as
kemarim, which is another word

1566
01:29:13,560 --> 01:29:16,040
used for priests in other
contexts, right?

1567
01:29:16,160 --> 01:29:20,560
As if Josiah or the Jews later,
after the time of Christ, were

1568
01:29:20,560 --> 01:29:23,720
defending Josiah's reforms by
saying, oh, there's killing

1569
01:29:23,720 --> 01:29:26,280
these male prostitutes that just
happened to be in the temple.

1570
01:29:26,840 --> 01:29:31,360
Where?
Really, they were May maybe they

1571
01:29:31,360 --> 01:29:34,600
were priests that weren't
Levites and there was a power

1572
01:29:34,600 --> 01:29:39,040
struggle.
And that's happening around the

1573
01:29:39,040 --> 01:29:41,240
time that Lehi and Jeremiah
would have been young men.

1574
01:29:42,200 --> 01:29:45,640
OK.
And you have these big upheaval

1575
01:29:45,840 --> 01:29:49,120
because it makes no sense.
This is another proof for

1576
01:29:49,120 --> 01:29:53,280
Mormonism and why the it's good
with the for the restoration

1577
01:29:53,280 --> 01:29:57,560
have this idea of the source
criticism because why does

1578
01:29:57,560 --> 01:30:00,720
preaching about the Messiah in
the days of Lehi get him in

1579
01:30:00,720 --> 01:30:03,080
trouble unless they got rid of
all that stuff?

1580
01:30:03,600 --> 01:30:07,240
Because there's all this
upheaval in his youth and this

1581
01:30:07,240 --> 01:30:09,920
correlation and he remembers the
old ways.

1582
01:30:09,920 --> 01:30:13,280
He is out and about saying
remember, remember.

1583
01:30:13,600 --> 01:30:16,760
And Jeremiah is out there saying
remember, remember, because the

1584
01:30:16,760 --> 01:30:20,320
theology has changed.
There's no more Christ.

1585
01:30:20,800 --> 01:30:24,680
They've they've de
anthropomorphized God, right,

1586
01:30:24,840 --> 01:30:29,120
All this stuff.
And for in fact, in Leviticus,

1587
01:30:29,560 --> 01:30:33,920
for example, when it gives all
the holy days, one of them is

1588
01:30:33,920 --> 01:30:37,040
the Day of Atonement.
Yeah, which necessitates a

1589
01:30:37,200 --> 01:30:39,520
messianic figure, the Messiah,
as we understand that right.

1590
01:30:40,720 --> 01:30:46,280
The Deuteronomy also
recapitulates the holy days, the

1591
01:30:46,520 --> 01:30:48,560
ones missing the Day of
Atonement.

1592
01:30:49,920 --> 01:30:52,160
They they were all about the
atonement, right?

1593
01:30:52,400 --> 01:30:55,400
They just follow the law.
The law saves you.

1594
01:30:55,840 --> 01:30:59,720
You know, I can't remember who I
was talking to, but he was

1595
01:30:59,720 --> 01:31:03,880
telling me he had some
background in Judaism and he

1596
01:31:03,880 --> 01:31:06,880
said the the thing about the
Sadducees and the Pharisees that

1597
01:31:06,880 --> 01:31:10,240
that I think kind of goes along
with that is that the Sadducees

1598
01:31:10,240 --> 01:31:13,680
were all about the temple.
The Pharisees were all about the

1599
01:31:13,680 --> 01:31:16,120
written law.
Yeah, but at the same time, the

1600
01:31:16,120 --> 01:31:20,160
Sadducees also wanted to
deemphasize all the angels, God

1601
01:31:20,160 --> 01:31:22,840
having a body.
So it was about the temple

1602
01:31:22,840 --> 01:31:24,920
observances, but none of the
life within.

1603
01:31:25,080 --> 01:31:27,560
The right, right.
None of the eternal

1604
01:31:27,560 --> 01:31:30,120
significance.
Right, and and the Pharisees

1605
01:31:30,120 --> 01:31:33,800
seem to be more geared towards
what was written down.

1606
01:31:34,400 --> 01:31:36,000
You know, and they had the
Mystic stuff.

1607
01:31:36,000 --> 01:31:38,480
And they had the Mystic.
Stuff, but they hated the temple

1608
01:31:38,480 --> 01:31:40,080
because they had no claim to the
priesthood.

1609
01:31:40,080 --> 01:31:41,800
Yep, exactly.
Yeah.

1610
01:31:42,200 --> 01:31:45,800
And it's very interesting to see
how these parallels play out

1611
01:31:46,120 --> 01:31:49,320
over and over.
And ultimately, you can say who

1612
01:31:49,320 --> 01:31:51,000
wins in Judaism?
Pharisees.

1613
01:31:51,000 --> 01:31:53,760
It's the Pharisees, right,
'cause the temple's eventually

1614
01:31:53,760 --> 01:31:55,000
destroyed, right?
I mean.

1615
01:31:55,000 --> 01:31:58,880
Rabbinical Judaism is the by and
large the biggest part of modern

1616
01:31:58,880 --> 01:32:00,520
like the remnant of Judaism
today.

1617
01:32:00,520 --> 01:32:03,840
And that rabbinical is is
Pharisee that tradition.

1618
01:32:04,120 --> 01:32:09,520
Yep, absolutely interesting.
And so some things may not be as

1619
01:32:09,520 --> 01:32:13,080
they appear in the scriptures,
like the fact that Melchizedek

1620
01:32:13,080 --> 01:32:18,160
priests may have existed.
I think this is the Gospel court

1621
01:32:18,160 --> 01:32:19,600
history according to Michael
Ness.

1622
01:32:20,080 --> 01:32:23,240
I think that there was perhaps a
mini dispensation of Melchizedek

1623
01:32:23,240 --> 01:32:27,080
priesthood from Samuel down to
Lehigh.

1624
01:32:27,080 --> 01:32:32,480
And then Lehigh inherits it
after underground style, after

1625
01:32:32,480 --> 01:32:35,040
Josiah and others killed the
Melchizedek priests off.

1626
01:32:35,360 --> 01:32:38,520
And that he takes it to America,
to the New world, to the new

1627
01:32:38,520 --> 01:32:40,240
world with the Nephites.
And they had the Melchizedek

1628
01:32:40,240 --> 01:32:42,400
priesthood.
But then the Jews are left with

1629
01:32:42,400 --> 01:32:43,600
nothing.
Essentially.

1630
01:32:43,760 --> 01:32:44,960
They have the Levites, but
right.

1631
01:32:46,840 --> 01:32:51,520
And I think that because, and so
Joseph Smith and John Taylor say

1632
01:32:51,520 --> 01:32:53,560
stuff like God ordained the
prophets himself.

1633
01:32:53,560 --> 01:32:56,120
And that's true because we
talked about that, but you got

1634
01:32:56,120 --> 01:33:00,120
to qualify on a certain level
before that perhaps, right?

1635
01:33:00,360 --> 01:33:03,680
I don't want to unequivocally
say, but to me, when I see the

1636
01:33:03,680 --> 01:33:07,560
story of Samuel, this is a big
eye opener to me for this

1637
01:33:07,560 --> 01:33:11,960
paradigm because it says that
there was no open vision in the

1638
01:33:12,120 --> 01:33:14,920
in the for hundreds of years
between Samuel and Joshua and

1639
01:33:14,920 --> 01:33:17,360
that there was no prophet or
open vision.

1640
01:33:17,360 --> 01:33:21,840
Like no one can communicate with
the Lord like Moses or Joshua

1641
01:33:21,840 --> 01:33:24,160
until Samuel.
And he's called as a young man,

1642
01:33:24,840 --> 01:33:28,760
he's an Ephraimite, not a
Levite, but he's adopted by Lehi

1643
01:33:29,040 --> 01:33:32,920
Eli to serve in the temple.
But he's an Ephraimite.

1644
01:33:34,840 --> 01:33:37,880
And then all of a sudden
prophets show up all over the

1645
01:33:37,880 --> 01:33:40,800
place and they're all over the
place until they start getting

1646
01:33:40,800 --> 01:33:44,960
killed off by Jezebel and the
the Bale priests.

1647
01:33:45,200 --> 01:33:48,440
But then there's a resurgence.
By the time Elisha takes over,

1648
01:33:48,760 --> 01:33:51,360
there's like 6 more schools of
the prophets and they're in the

1649
01:33:51,360 --> 01:33:55,440
different cities at Jericho,
Gilgal, Jerusalem, Shiloh, and

1650
01:33:55,880 --> 01:33:59,280
like two others.
But there's more prophets and

1651
01:33:59,560 --> 01:34:05,280
that's around 720 BC or before.
That's all before 720 BC, before

1652
01:34:05,280 --> 01:34:07,000
the northern Kingdom is
destroyed.

1653
01:34:07,400 --> 01:34:10,280
And then that happens and then
the refugees flee to Jerusalem.

1654
01:34:10,600 --> 01:34:13,560
Interesting.
And so I think that all the way

1655
01:34:13,560 --> 01:34:16,880
down past Isaiah, there was
Melchizedek priesthood.

1656
01:34:17,280 --> 01:34:23,200
You know, this plays in queue in
a weird way into this whole idea

1657
01:34:23,200 --> 01:34:27,520
of why don't we see Hebrew blood
in America among the Native

1658
01:34:27,520 --> 01:34:30,920
Americans.
And Ken Peterson, shout out to

1659
01:34:30,920 --> 01:34:32,920
him, pointed this out to me in
one episode.

1660
01:34:32,920 --> 01:34:36,520
We did.
Lehigh wasn't a Jew.

1661
01:34:37,040 --> 01:34:40,000
No, he was Manasa, and he's
Manasa from the Northern

1662
01:34:40,000 --> 01:34:41,880
Kingdom, and he held the high
priesthood.

1663
01:34:42,000 --> 01:34:44,880
Right.
And so when people say, well,

1664
01:34:44,880 --> 01:34:49,520
we're not seeing any Hebrew DNA
in the Native Americans, it do.

1665
01:34:50,000 --> 01:34:53,000
I must have been dumb, right?
Because until until that's

1666
01:34:53,000 --> 01:34:56,880
explained to me, I'm like, oh,
well, crap, then you shouldn't

1667
01:34:56,880 --> 01:35:00,160
expect to see any, right?
It's something different.

1668
01:35:00,160 --> 01:35:02,120
Not if you're testing modern
Jews for it.

1669
01:35:02,240 --> 01:35:03,680
Right.
Yeah, right.

1670
01:35:04,040 --> 01:35:07,320
And and so I find that to be
very fascinating as well.

1671
01:35:07,600 --> 01:35:11,720
The other thing I want to say to
back up your point that that

1672
01:35:11,720 --> 01:35:15,240
Lehigh's dealing with the
Melchizedek priesthood, if he

1673
01:35:15,240 --> 01:35:19,920
was an adherent to just Judaism,
right, he's got no business

1674
01:35:19,920 --> 01:35:21,840
making a temple once they get to
the New world.

1675
01:35:22,080 --> 01:35:24,120
Yep, none.
But what do they do?

1676
01:35:24,440 --> 01:35:27,400
They make a temple.
In the manner of Solomon's

1677
01:35:27,400 --> 01:35:31,240
temple saved, it was built out
of wood and and not stone.

1678
01:35:31,480 --> 01:35:33,920
Right.
And so somehow they're feeling

1679
01:35:33,920 --> 01:35:36,440
empowered.
Because they don't believe in

1680
01:35:36,440 --> 01:35:37,520
Deuteronomy.
Right.

1681
01:35:37,720 --> 01:35:40,480
Because Lehi was fighting
against it in his day.

1682
01:35:40,520 --> 01:35:42,920
Yeah.
And so Isaiah's messianic all

1683
01:35:42,920 --> 01:35:43,840
the way through and through and
through.

1684
01:35:43,840 --> 01:35:47,120
And that's why Nephi and Lehi
and those prophets and and the

1685
01:35:47,120 --> 01:35:52,280
Nephites love Isaiah because he
was the last big prophet among

1686
01:35:52,280 --> 01:35:54,880
the Jews before the
Deuteronomistic reforms.

1687
01:35:55,400 --> 01:35:58,280
That was like the Messiah is,
you know, is part of our

1688
01:35:58,280 --> 01:36:00,200
religion.
And then they wiped all that

1689
01:36:00,200 --> 01:36:01,840
out.
OK, so we're going to go on

1690
01:36:01,840 --> 01:36:04,400
another tangent here because I
need to, I need to clear this

1691
01:36:04,400 --> 01:36:07,560
up.
So who are the Deuteronomists

1692
01:36:07,560 --> 01:36:09,360
exactly?
Scribes.

1693
01:36:09,720 --> 01:36:11,920
They're scholars, OK?
They're lawyers.

1694
01:36:11,920 --> 01:36:14,880
So do they have a connection
with the book of Deuteronomy?

1695
01:36:14,880 --> 01:36:20,760
Yes, they also they basically
created the the basic skeleton

1696
01:36:20,760 --> 01:36:23,600
reform that it's in now.
OK, not that there wasn't an

1697
01:36:23,600 --> 01:36:26,320
original book.
So Deuteronomy literally means

1698
01:36:26,520 --> 01:36:28,200
second law.
OK.

1699
01:36:29,280 --> 01:36:35,440
Which is interesting, but it's
these, It's a recap of all the

1700
01:36:35,440 --> 01:36:39,320
other laws that Moses already
gave, but now they're putting

1701
01:36:39,320 --> 01:36:43,800
their own spin on.
And so Deuteronomy it says, and

1702
01:36:43,800 --> 01:36:46,040
it seems like so that there was
probably an original version and

1703
01:36:46,040 --> 01:36:48,080
it might not have been called
Deuteronomy, but I, I'm not

1704
01:36:48,080 --> 01:36:50,600
going to say unequivocally on
that.

1705
01:36:52,840 --> 01:36:55,680
Where it says God spake to Moses
face to face.

1706
01:36:55,680 --> 01:36:58,120
And on the same page later it
says, but no, he really didn't

1707
01:36:58,120 --> 01:37:00,480
see God face to face.
OK.

1708
01:37:00,480 --> 01:37:05,600
So they started putting their
views in just like they, just

1709
01:37:05,600 --> 01:37:08,520
like we see with J&P with a
flood narrative stitching it

1710
01:37:08,520 --> 01:37:11,040
together.
They stitched their views in

1711
01:37:11,360 --> 01:37:15,720
something that was already there
to completely recalibrate the

1712
01:37:15,720 --> 01:37:19,000
reading, OK?
To view God the way that they

1713
01:37:19,000 --> 01:37:22,080
viewed it, to view the temple
the way that they viewed it, to

1714
01:37:22,080 --> 01:37:25,240
de emphasize things they wanted
de emphasized, to emphasize

1715
01:37:25,240 --> 01:37:28,920
other, the law versus atonement,
those those kinds of things.

1716
01:37:28,920 --> 01:37:32,400
So let me ask you this, how do
you view the book of Deuteronomy

1717
01:37:32,400 --> 01:37:35,840
then?
I like it actually, but you

1718
01:37:35,840 --> 01:37:38,480
know, it's been 7 years since
I've read it all the way

1719
01:37:38,480 --> 01:37:42,440
through, but I remember liking
it when I read it on my mission.

1720
01:37:42,760 --> 01:37:45,560
So do you feel that the book of
Deuteronomy is inspired or do

1721
01:37:45,560 --> 01:37:48,440
you feel like it's just revised?
I think if you have an

1722
01:37:48,440 --> 01:37:54,240
understanding holistically of
the gospel of Jesus Christ, it's

1723
01:37:54,240 --> 01:38:00,600
not problematic to anyone to
read those scriptures and get

1724
01:38:00,600 --> 01:38:03,720
what you the good stuff out of
it that you know, and maybe the

1725
01:38:03,720 --> 01:38:08,120
deuteronoms had some truth right
and weren't wrong on everything,

1726
01:38:08,520 --> 01:38:11,280
but there's a problem when it
came to the political stuff for

1727
01:38:11,280 --> 01:38:14,880
sure.
You know, if they truly were

1728
01:38:14,880 --> 01:38:18,720
responsible for an apostasy type
situation, which I can prove was

1729
01:38:18,720 --> 01:38:20,480
happening by the way.
Can you and?

1730
01:38:20,560 --> 01:38:21,200
We.
Oh, yeah.

1731
01:38:21,760 --> 01:38:23,880
From Jeremiah.
He was a contemporary of all

1732
01:38:23,880 --> 01:38:24,760
this, right?
OK.

1733
01:38:25,640 --> 01:38:31,760
Because I do like Deuteronomy.
Because Deuteronomy seems to be

1734
01:38:31,760 --> 01:38:36,560
like a, a lot of the, the, the
books of Moses and certainly the

1735
01:38:36,560 --> 01:38:39,520
New Testament falls into this
and, and later those, those

1736
01:38:39,520 --> 01:38:43,080
other prophets, you know, Isaiah
and that sort of thing, they're

1737
01:38:43,080 --> 01:38:47,520
talking by and large about
individuals, right?

1738
01:38:48,560 --> 01:38:51,320
You're going to need to do this
and and you need to have your

1739
01:38:51,320 --> 01:38:53,720
heart, right.
Deuteronomy is an interesting

1740
01:38:53,720 --> 01:38:57,800
book because it seems to be
talking about national law a lot

1741
01:38:57,800 --> 01:39:01,080
of times, right?
Which I I do find fascinating

1742
01:39:01,080 --> 01:39:02,800
and I think there's something
there to.

1743
01:39:02,800 --> 01:39:06,720
That So Mike Day said something
really interesting on this is if

1744
01:39:06,720 --> 01:39:11,200
you look at ancient documents
from Assyria, it's called

1745
01:39:11,200 --> 01:39:14,520
suzerain vassal treaties, OK.
And it's the political

1746
01:39:14,520 --> 01:39:17,600
arrangement that Assyria would
make with and Babylon would also

1747
01:39:17,600 --> 01:39:21,080
make with smaller countries to
come under our umbrella.

1748
01:39:21,120 --> 01:39:24,720
We'll protect you against your
enemies and our enemies if you

1749
01:39:24,720 --> 01:39:27,160
tribute and if you're loyal and
all of this.

1750
01:39:27,160 --> 01:39:32,080
OK.
And it looks like, according to

1751
01:39:32,080 --> 01:39:35,280
Mike Day, that what the
Deuteronomist did is they took

1752
01:39:35,280 --> 01:39:38,320
the Assyrian treaty.
And instead of having the king

1753
01:39:38,320 --> 01:39:42,680
of Assyria, they had gone.
They placed God in the place.

1754
01:39:43,080 --> 01:39:48,720
And so politically they were,
you know, Judah wasn't under

1755
01:39:48,720 --> 01:39:51,320
Assyria, but Israel was, I think
until they rebelled.

1756
01:39:51,320 --> 01:39:56,440
But that Judah was had they had
deals with Babylon at a certain

1757
01:39:56,440 --> 01:39:59,720
level, which they reneged on.
We got them into Bible.

1758
01:40:01,640 --> 01:40:05,480
But you couldn't just, it seems
like it was an expedient thing

1759
01:40:06,040 --> 01:40:09,320
to like, OK, we're civilly under
this, the thumb of a bigger

1760
01:40:09,320 --> 01:40:12,160
empire.
We don't want to and we have to

1761
01:40:12,160 --> 01:40:15,920
enforce the law, that law.
But let's say we're honoring

1762
01:40:15,920 --> 01:40:17,440
God.
OK.

1763
01:40:18,160 --> 01:40:23,240
But the outlines are all very
much like this is an Assyrian

1764
01:40:23,240 --> 01:40:25,600
political document in
Deuteronomy.

1765
01:40:25,880 --> 01:40:30,200
Interesting.
That's fascinating, isn't it?

1766
01:40:31,000 --> 01:40:33,280
That is very fascinating.
All right, so you had.

1767
01:40:33,280 --> 01:40:35,640
Some.
So there's a million different

1768
01:40:35,640 --> 01:40:37,960
ways.
The King James Version of the

1769
01:40:37,960 --> 01:40:40,440
Scripture is not the best, but
you look at all the other

1770
01:40:40,440 --> 01:40:43,720
versions of the Bible because
there's a lot and God didn't

1771
01:40:43,720 --> 01:40:51,600
just come down and dictate it,
but the law is Torah in Hebrew,

1772
01:40:51,600 --> 01:40:54,240
right?
So some scripture, some versions

1773
01:40:54,240 --> 01:40:58,840
say it's the Torah in this, but
here's a let's find a good one

1774
01:40:58,840 --> 01:41:01,200
version.
Do not even know what some of

1775
01:41:01,200 --> 01:41:03,080
these stand for.
Here's one.

1776
01:41:03,320 --> 01:41:06,440
How can you say this is Jeremiah
saying this is Jeremiah 8 verse

1777
01:41:06,440 --> 01:41:10,600
8, chapter 8, verse 8.
How can you say that we are wise

1778
01:41:10,600 --> 01:41:13,320
and we possess the Lord's
instruction or the Torah and

1779
01:41:13,320 --> 01:41:16,000
since rendered in some ways, how
can you say we possess the Torah

1780
01:41:16,440 --> 01:41:19,760
when the lying pens of the
scribes have surely distorted

1781
01:41:19,760 --> 01:41:23,920
it.
So the scholars say

1782
01:41:24,400 --> 01:41:29,680
Deuteronomous change things.
A 600 BC Lehigh is saying I'm

1783
01:41:29,680 --> 01:41:33,000
preaching the the atonement and
Christ and they hated me for it.

1784
01:41:33,240 --> 01:41:36,000
And Jeremiah, a contemporary
Lehigh, is saying, all you

1785
01:41:36,000 --> 01:41:38,840
scribes think, say and say
you're so wise because we have

1786
01:41:38,840 --> 01:41:42,320
the law, Law of Moses, the
Torah, the first five months,

1787
01:41:43,200 --> 01:41:45,560
but you've changed it.
In your.

1788
01:41:45,760 --> 01:41:50,040
Your lying scribes have already
changed it, so all that fits

1789
01:41:50,360 --> 01:41:52,240
really well together.
Yeah, it does.

1790
01:41:52,560 --> 01:41:53,440
Holy.
Cow.

1791
01:41:54,800 --> 01:41:57,800
Yeah, it was, and all the other
versions besides the King James

1792
01:41:57,800 --> 01:42:01,640
version say it really well.
Or the King James is a little

1793
01:42:01,640 --> 01:42:03,040
cumbersome with the way it's
worded.

1794
01:42:03,280 --> 01:42:08,720
But in any case, it seems
something is happening for sure.

1795
01:42:08,720 --> 01:42:13,240
In religious reforms at 600 BC,
they got Jeremiah and Lehi

1796
01:42:14,400 --> 01:42:17,840
ostracized because Jeremiah says
there's all these other prophets

1797
01:42:17,840 --> 01:42:19,840
from and around, right?
And they were saying

1798
01:42:21,200 --> 01:42:23,400
politically, yeah, we're good to
fight Babylon.

1799
01:42:23,400 --> 01:42:26,440
And Jeremiah was like the
defeatist saying no, surrender

1800
01:42:26,440 --> 01:42:28,120
and you'll.
And that's the only way to get

1801
01:42:28,120 --> 01:42:29,400
out of this.
And they wouldn't.

1802
01:42:29,920 --> 01:42:32,240
Wait, there were more than one
prophet running around at a

1803
01:42:32,240 --> 01:42:33,040
time?
Yeah.

1804
01:42:33,720 --> 01:42:37,120
Prophet, right?
Because yeah, obviously.

1805
01:42:37,120 --> 01:42:40,600
Were they listening to the Lord?
It seems like some, you know,

1806
01:42:40,600 --> 01:42:43,560
like Jeremiah and Lehigh were,
but these other prophets were

1807
01:42:43,800 --> 01:42:45,880
wrong.
Yeah.

1808
01:42:46,080 --> 01:42:49,360
So I was.
I wasn't not inspired.

1809
01:42:49,680 --> 01:42:50,440
I was.
I was.

1810
01:42:50,440 --> 01:42:52,720
Taking it a different direction,
I was like, you mean there could

1811
01:42:52,720 --> 01:42:54,320
be more than?
One, I know where you are there,

1812
01:42:54,320 --> 01:42:56,520
but it's pits with both.
Yeah, it pits with both.

1813
01:42:56,560 --> 01:43:00,680
Yeah, interesting.
And so there's some other

1814
01:43:00,680 --> 01:43:07,920
interesting things too, like the
Deuteronomous outlaw things that

1815
01:43:08,440 --> 01:43:11,920
the patriarchs like Abraham,
Isaac and Jacob do a lot really

1816
01:43:11,920 --> 01:43:14,120
such as well.
They say to go destroy the

1817
01:43:14,120 --> 01:43:21,600
Groves and stuff, but Abraham
goes to a Grove with a sacred

1818
01:43:21,600 --> 01:43:25,520
tree and it's called the oak of
Mamre or Mamre or whatever.

1819
01:43:25,520 --> 01:43:29,600
And I can't remember what it all
was tied into that story, but I

1820
01:43:29,600 --> 01:43:31,360
think that's such a where he
makes the covenant with God.

1821
01:43:33,360 --> 01:43:36,200
It is and it changes his name.
I think it's that place came

1822
01:43:36,200 --> 01:43:39,680
from Abraham to Abraham and the
tree is symbolic of the tree of

1823
01:43:39,680 --> 01:43:42,520
life and especially the feminine
component, heavenly mother kind

1824
01:43:42,520 --> 01:43:46,520
of stuff.
And they that was also one of

1825
01:43:46,520 --> 01:43:49,120
the reforms is de emphasize the
fact that God was

1826
01:43:49,120 --> 01:43:53,800
anthropomorphic and had a wife,
you know, and so but Abraham's

1827
01:43:53,800 --> 01:43:59,920
making sacrifice and worshipping
in a primitive temple setting in

1828
01:43:59,920 --> 01:44:05,960
a Grove with a sacred tree.
Jacob goes to Beth El, the House

1829
01:44:05,960 --> 01:44:10,960
of God, and sets up a stone
altar outside of Jerusalem and

1830
01:44:10,960 --> 01:44:13,800
has this visionary experience
where he sees angels ascending

1831
01:44:13,800 --> 01:44:15,320
in descending called Jacob's
Ladder.

1832
01:44:16,480 --> 01:44:19,000
That's against, you know, what
Deuteronomy says to do.

1833
01:44:19,000 --> 01:44:22,640
You can't set up an altar and
outside of, you know, all that.

1834
01:44:22,840 --> 01:44:26,320
So the patriarchs were doing
things like that that

1835
01:44:26,320 --> 01:44:29,720
Deuteronomy says you don't do.
But the J and the E source

1836
01:44:30,000 --> 01:44:32,400
maintained that the patriarchs
were doing priesthood stuff.

1837
01:44:33,600 --> 01:44:37,640
Outside of the temple one and
outside of authorized it

1838
01:44:38,040 --> 01:44:40,280
authorized lines.
Yeah, outside the correlation.

1839
01:44:40,280 --> 01:44:44,360
Now, now let me ask you this and
and maybe this is a connection

1840
01:44:44,360 --> 01:44:47,840
too far or something you maybe
you're not, not read on.

1841
01:44:49,400 --> 01:44:56,920
But we do have certain Hebraic
expressions of like Jehovah and

1842
01:44:56,920 --> 01:44:58,280
his ashra.
Yeah, yeah.

1843
01:44:58,960 --> 01:45:02,280
Is this the same time period
where where that seems to be

1844
01:45:02,280 --> 01:45:06,800
flipped around and Ashra becomes
more of a they ascribe her to be

1845
01:45:06,800 --> 01:45:09,320
more of a Pagan deity than
anything else?

1846
01:45:09,440 --> 01:45:11,040
Yeah.
And part of the reason is

1847
01:45:11,040 --> 01:45:14,440
because the the priest of Baal
came in and they married

1848
01:45:14,640 --> 01:45:17,080
symbolically Baal to Asherah,
right.

1849
01:45:17,080 --> 01:45:18,600
OK.
And so they were able to point

1850
01:45:18,600 --> 01:45:21,840
to, oh, look, you know, this is
Baalism, perhaps.

1851
01:45:21,880 --> 01:45:25,080
And that was a convenient way
for them to disregard.

1852
01:45:25,680 --> 01:45:29,280
Right.
The the the duality of God being

1853
01:45:29,280 --> 01:45:32,960
both male and feminine, the
sacred nature of you know, which

1854
01:45:32,960 --> 01:45:36,160
is representative in humanity,
just being we're we're gods and

1855
01:45:36,160 --> 01:45:37,920
embryo, right?
We're male and female.

1856
01:45:37,920 --> 01:45:41,120
We're Adam and Eve, right?
You know I.

1857
01:45:41,120 --> 01:45:44,680
Found that very fascinating
because the if I'm not mistaken

1858
01:45:44,680 --> 01:45:47,080
and if anyone's out there and
wants to Fact Check me, that's

1859
01:45:47,080 --> 01:45:48,600
fine.
But I believe this one.

1860
01:45:49,200 --> 01:45:52,400
I believe it was a seal if I'm
not mistaken, but it was like a

1861
01:45:52,400 --> 01:45:58,280
clay or pottery seal that talked
about God, Jehovah and his

1862
01:45:58,320 --> 01:45:58,880
ashra.
Yeah.

1863
01:45:58,880 --> 01:46:00,720
No, it is.
And it's in Egypt I believe.

1864
01:46:01,880 --> 01:46:03,640
And so, yeah.
And if I'm not mistaken, there

1865
01:46:03,640 --> 01:46:08,000
was a tree on there, yeah.
Ashra is always a sacred tree,

1866
01:46:08,720 --> 01:46:11,440
always a sacred tree.
And so you see Nephite having

1867
01:46:11,440 --> 01:46:14,960
his vision of the tree of life
and the tree is precious above

1868
01:46:14,960 --> 01:46:17,760
all.
And what is the fruit of the

1869
01:46:17,760 --> 01:46:19,640
tree?
It's Jesus Christ is the son of

1870
01:46:19,640 --> 01:46:22,440
the Mother, right?
You know, just as much as he's

1871
01:46:22,440 --> 01:46:26,440
the son of the Father, but it's
the we see this imagery all the

1872
01:46:26,440 --> 01:46:28,040
time of the child born of the
woman.

1873
01:46:28,240 --> 01:46:31,800
Right.
You know, in fact, blew my mind

1874
01:46:31,920 --> 01:46:34,560
when I realized that.
So in ancient Egypt and stuff,

1875
01:46:34,560 --> 01:46:41,600
you see Osiris or Horus sitting
on groans, but sometimes he's

1876
01:46:41,600 --> 01:46:44,560
sitting on the lap of Isis, his
mom, right?

1877
01:46:44,560 --> 01:46:48,440
And he's a child and he's being
breastfed or whatever sometimes.

1878
01:46:48,440 --> 01:46:50,840
But you see the the the
Christian version of that with

1879
01:46:50,840 --> 01:46:54,120
like baby Jesus and Mary.
Right.

1880
01:46:54,600 --> 01:46:57,120
It's the same imagery.
And so the secular modern people

1881
01:46:57,120 --> 01:47:00,960
would be like, oh, Christianity
is just this continuation of

1882
01:47:00,960 --> 01:47:04,440
this motif from Egypt mythology,
and it's nothing special.

1883
01:47:04,720 --> 01:47:06,880
And I'll use that to debunk
Christianity.

1884
01:47:06,880 --> 01:47:08,480
Yeah, whatever.
I don't care about that.

1885
01:47:09,120 --> 01:47:12,320
But those motifs are there.
But then you have the New

1886
01:47:12,320 --> 01:47:14,960
Testament stuff where it says
that Christ.

1887
01:47:15,040 --> 01:47:17,480
So.
So we put it in that.

1888
01:47:17,840 --> 01:47:21,240
So you have these Egyptian gods
and other variations.

1889
01:47:21,240 --> 01:47:24,320
It's all over the ancient world
that the Son of God is is

1890
01:47:24,320 --> 01:47:28,960
enthroned on his mother's lap.
Right.

1891
01:47:29,440 --> 01:47:31,360
That's his throne.
The mom is the throne

1892
01:47:31,400 --> 01:47:34,760
symbolically.
In fact, Isis is wearing a

1893
01:47:34,760 --> 01:47:36,240
throne on her head.
Like you've seen.

1894
01:47:36,400 --> 01:47:38,600
You've seen the Egyptian gods
and they have the animal heads

1895
01:47:38,600 --> 01:47:42,080
or whatever.
Isis has a throne on her head.

1896
01:47:42,640 --> 01:47:45,360
In.
RSC So she's the throne.

1897
01:47:45,840 --> 01:47:51,760
It's a Christ being crucified or
hanged on a tree as it says in

1898
01:47:51,760 --> 01:47:54,200
the New Testament.
Is Christ enthroned?

1899
01:47:55,040 --> 01:48:01,480
Interesting who Christ is being
enthroned in sacred imagery when

1900
01:48:01,480 --> 01:48:04,680
he is crucified.
So it, it seems to me, correct

1901
01:48:04,680 --> 01:48:11,880
me if I'm wrong here, is that
the, the, the, the Deuteronomous

1902
01:48:11,880 --> 01:48:14,480
seem to want to funnel
everything to through one

1903
01:48:14,480 --> 01:48:17,480
source, right?
And they just they just ascribe

1904
01:48:17,480 --> 01:48:20,480
all these attributes.
And everything into this one God

1905
01:48:20,480 --> 01:48:26,040
Omni God and distort things and
and amalgamate everything at the

1906
01:48:26,040 --> 01:48:31,320
same time and make him sexless
and the source of all these

1907
01:48:31,320 --> 01:48:34,520
attributes interesting and
confound the whole thing.

1908
01:48:34,520 --> 01:48:38,800
And there's no need for you
know, Christ can't be the son of

1909
01:48:38,800 --> 01:48:41,120
God because Israel is the only
son of God.

1910
01:48:41,280 --> 01:48:45,160
You know, as a nation.
It becomes a scribe to Jacob and

1911
01:48:45,160 --> 01:48:48,960
Israel is the Son of God.
So anytime you read the prophets

1912
01:48:48,960 --> 01:48:54,360
where it says like Isaiah, they
interpreted that to be, oh, we

1913
01:48:54,360 --> 01:48:58,840
are the, you know, collectively
representative of this divine

1914
01:48:58,840 --> 01:49:03,280
son figure because Jacob is
God's chosen.

1915
01:49:03,640 --> 01:49:06,360
So let let me ask you this
question then, right?

1916
01:49:06,360 --> 01:49:12,120
And, and this is just just my
question, just pushing back a

1917
01:49:12,120 --> 01:49:15,160
little bit.
If if these Deuteronomous were

1918
01:49:15,160 --> 01:49:18,560
doing this and they were wanting
to, let's just take the

1919
01:49:18,560 --> 01:49:21,600
patriarchs for example, they
want to get rid of any altar

1920
01:49:21,600 --> 01:49:23,880
worship outside of Jerusalem,
outside the temple.

1921
01:49:24,560 --> 01:49:28,160
Why do they allow the the
Abraham story to remain as it

1922
01:49:28,160 --> 01:49:28,480
is?
It's.

1923
01:49:28,800 --> 01:49:31,000
A good question.
Why do they allow?

1924
01:49:31,120 --> 01:49:34,760
Because that to me seems to
would would defeat your purpose

1925
01:49:34,760 --> 01:49:39,600
a little bit, right?
Well, they, I don't know.

1926
01:49:40,480 --> 01:49:43,040
Unless they're doing the same
thing that Christians have done

1927
01:49:43,040 --> 01:49:45,160
for a long time, which is.
What they seem?

1928
01:49:45,160 --> 01:49:47,080
To have done at Moses, things
change.

1929
01:49:47,280 --> 01:49:50,800
Yeah, what it seems to have done
for example with Moses is oh, it

1930
01:49:50,800 --> 01:49:54,200
says that he said so that he saw
God face to face, but really he

1931
01:49:54,200 --> 01:49:55,520
didn't because you can't see
God.

1932
01:49:55,560 --> 01:49:58,200
And so they you have these
little things afterwards it

1933
01:49:58,200 --> 01:50:00,560
seems like they get put in to
just explain it away a

1934
01:50:00,560 --> 01:50:01,160
different.
Way.

1935
01:50:01,720 --> 01:50:03,800
Without fully removing or
contradicting it.

1936
01:50:04,080 --> 01:50:06,280
Gotcha.
And was it political expediency

1937
01:50:06,280 --> 01:50:08,200
that they didn't want?
It's like, maybe it's like the

1938
01:50:08,200 --> 01:50:11,000
church introducing small changes
over a period of five years with

1939
01:50:11,000 --> 01:50:15,200
four different temple changes to
boil the frog slowly.

1940
01:50:15,600 --> 01:50:16,960
Right.
OK, I don't know.

1941
01:50:17,120 --> 01:50:18,600
Before it jumps out of the water
and says.

1942
01:50:18,720 --> 01:50:21,760
Gotcha.
Maybe they intended to and just

1943
01:50:21,760 --> 01:50:23,720
didn't get get around to.
It yeah.

1944
01:50:23,720 --> 01:50:26,000
Or it was just yeah.
Or the narrative just one, the

1945
01:50:26,000 --> 01:50:31,320
oral tradition to interpret it 1
you know, but there's all you

1946
01:50:31,320 --> 01:50:36,400
know, there's a weird stuff like
this in Deuteronomy during the

1947
01:50:36,400 --> 01:50:40,880
conquest, you know, during,
during while Moses is leading

1948
01:50:40,880 --> 01:50:44,120
the children of Israel back
towards the promised land.

1949
01:50:44,720 --> 01:50:48,920
It said, he says to them, ye
shall utterly destroy all the

1950
01:50:48,920 --> 01:50:52,080
places where in the nations
which he shall possess serve

1951
01:50:52,080 --> 01:50:54,880
their gods.
So destroy the places upon the

1952
01:50:54,880 --> 01:50:58,000
high mountains, upon the hills
and under every green tree.

1953
01:50:58,200 --> 01:51:01,520
Now this could be read to be
what you would call an

1954
01:51:01,520 --> 01:51:05,600
anachronistic revision, right?
Jesus destroying all the things

1955
01:51:05,600 --> 01:51:08,480
that the patriarchs were cool
with, apparently, as long as it

1956
01:51:08,480 --> 01:51:12,840
was to the true God, their God,
and not like idols, but like

1957
01:51:12,840 --> 01:51:14,400
they're just wrapping it into
idols, right?

1958
01:51:15,120 --> 01:51:17,760
And ye shall overthrow their
altars and break their pillars

1959
01:51:17,760 --> 01:51:20,560
and burn their Groves with fire,
And ye shall hew down the graven

1960
01:51:20,560 --> 01:51:22,920
images of their gods, and
destroy their names out of that

1961
01:51:22,920 --> 01:51:26,000
place.
And then it says, ye shall not

1962
01:51:26,000 --> 01:51:32,240
do so unto the Lord your God,
meaning it seems maybe that

1963
01:51:32,240 --> 01:51:36,920
there was already altars in the
land of the promised land unto

1964
01:51:36,920 --> 01:51:38,320
the Lord.
So.

1965
01:51:38,960 --> 01:51:42,200
You're go in there and destroy
all the altars and places not to

1966
01:51:42,200 --> 01:51:45,160
our God, but do not so unto the
Lord your God.

1967
01:51:45,880 --> 01:51:47,600
Oh, interesting.
Yeah.

1968
01:51:47,640 --> 01:51:50,000
That's the that's the best way I
can read right there.

1969
01:51:50,000 --> 01:51:53,000
And it's just right there that
there's things it shows that it

1970
01:51:53,000 --> 01:51:56,800
wasn't always that way, Right.
And it's a little evidence that

1971
01:51:56,800 --> 01:51:59,640
never got fully taken out.
Yeah.

1972
01:52:01,800 --> 01:52:05,480
Well, that was an interesting
tangent about the Deuteronomous.

1973
01:52:05,520 --> 01:52:09,520
Holy cow.
Yeah, that changes.

1974
01:52:10,040 --> 01:52:12,360
That changes some things.
It does.

1975
01:52:12,400 --> 01:52:15,760
It does.
This is the next part's my

1976
01:52:15,760 --> 01:52:17,080
favorite part of this
presentation.

1977
01:52:17,080 --> 01:52:19,000
We're going to talk about the
Ark.

1978
01:52:19,600 --> 01:52:22,920
All right, OK, how do I want to
go about this?

1979
01:52:23,440 --> 01:52:25,200
So we talked about in the
classes and probably on this

1980
01:52:25,200 --> 01:52:33,640
podcast in Scripture, the Garden
of Eden, the Temple Mountains

1981
01:52:36,280 --> 01:52:41,560
are all interchangeable.
And Eden and the Temple, it

1982
01:52:41,560 --> 01:52:43,520
seems, were divided into 3
spaces.

1983
01:52:46,000 --> 01:52:48,640
And the temple was for sure at
the time of Solomon's.

1984
01:52:48,680 --> 01:52:51,200
Solomon's Temple was for sure
divided into 3 spaces.

1985
01:52:51,200 --> 01:52:52,960
The Tabernacle was besides the
courtyard.

1986
01:52:52,960 --> 01:52:55,000
So.
Or did I have 4:00?

1987
01:52:55,880 --> 01:52:58,400
Not really, no.
I had three too, for all intents

1988
01:52:58,400 --> 01:53:00,440
and purposes.
Yeah, with the courtyard, I had

1989
01:53:00,440 --> 01:53:04,520
three, but when I was doing the
Enoch study stuff, they talked

1990
01:53:04,520 --> 01:53:07,200
about for some of the scholars
and I wish I had brought up the

1991
01:53:07,200 --> 01:53:09,040
source for this, but I can't
find it now.

1992
01:53:09,040 --> 01:53:10,680
Right.
I didn't go look for it, but

1993
01:53:10,680 --> 01:53:15,640
they said that maybe during the
second temple period, Herod's

1994
01:53:15,640 --> 01:53:18,280
temple or before it was Herod's
temple because Herod remodels

1995
01:53:18,280 --> 01:53:19,840
the second temple.
But during the second temple

1996
01:53:19,840 --> 01:53:24,080
period, perhaps the temple was
divided not into three, but

1997
01:53:24,080 --> 01:53:26,280
seven spaces.
Interesting.

1998
01:53:26,760 --> 01:53:32,240
And so if heaven and mountains
and Eden and the temple are all

1999
01:53:32,240 --> 01:53:35,000
the same, you get in the
apocryphal literature and even

2000
01:53:35,000 --> 01:53:38,640
in our colloquial language you
have 7 heavens.

2001
01:53:39,120 --> 01:53:41,760
Right.
You know Enoch traverses in the

2002
01:53:41,760 --> 01:53:44,880
third Enoch especially 7 heavens
before he gets to the throne of

2003
01:53:44,880 --> 01:53:51,200
God which is the holy place.
And the the Book of the Third

2004
01:53:51,200 --> 01:53:54,760
Enoch, its proper name is the
Sepher Hecalot, which is the the

2005
01:53:54,920 --> 01:53:58,760
the Book of Palaces or the Book
of Temples.

2006
01:53:59,200 --> 01:54:02,480
Oh, OK.
And so the Hekal was the second

2007
01:54:02,480 --> 01:54:06,600
room for the temple, but it was
also used as a colloquial term

2008
01:54:07,240 --> 01:54:08,840
for the whole temple.
OK.

2009
01:54:09,360 --> 01:54:12,960
And so, yeah, the Book of
Temples is how you can read

2010
01:54:12,960 --> 01:54:14,520
that.
And he's going through the seven

2011
01:54:14,520 --> 01:54:17,400
heavens.
And so we talked about how this

2012
01:54:17,400 --> 01:54:22,200
preserves the memory of because
Third Enoch was written by a guy

2013
01:54:22,200 --> 01:54:24,800
who was born in 70 AD.
So it's after the temple's been

2014
01:54:24,800 --> 01:54:28,760
destroyed, right?
And so it's a thing to preserve

2015
01:54:28,960 --> 01:54:32,320
the memory of the temple
perhaps, OK, because they had no

2016
01:54:32,320 --> 01:54:35,640
access to it.
So it's preserving the mental

2017
01:54:35,640 --> 01:54:38,720
furniture and framework of the
temple because there's no

2018
01:54:38,720 --> 01:54:42,520
physical temple left.
So seven part temple space is

2019
01:54:42,520 --> 01:54:47,840
important mentally for initiates
maybe to ponder as is three-part

2020
01:54:47,840 --> 01:54:51,280
space just the same, Dave Butler
and Mike Day and those guys are

2021
01:54:51,280 --> 01:54:53,960
really big on the three-part
space for their work that

2022
01:54:53,960 --> 01:54:55,280
they're doing, which is totally
true.

2023
01:54:55,960 --> 01:54:58,240
I don't think that contradicts
the seven part space.

2024
01:54:58,800 --> 01:55:01,360
I'm bringing up the seven part
space because that's fairly

2025
01:55:01,360 --> 01:55:02,880
important with what we're about
to talk about.

2026
01:55:03,320 --> 01:55:09,040
But for example, Pioneer era
Mormon temples had seven part

2027
01:55:09,040 --> 01:55:11,680
space if they had a holy of
holies.

2028
01:55:12,160 --> 01:55:16,000
Right.
You had the creation room, the

2029
01:55:16,000 --> 01:55:19,640
garden room, the world room, a
baptistry which represents hell,

2030
01:55:20,000 --> 01:55:22,360
you know, descending below all
things and rising in the

2031
01:55:22,360 --> 01:55:25,000
resurrection again, the
terrestrial, the terrestrial

2032
01:55:25,000 --> 01:55:26,920
room, the celestial room, and
the Holy of Holies.

2033
01:55:26,960 --> 01:55:29,360
That's 7.
OK Yep, that's a seven part

2034
01:55:29,360 --> 01:55:32,480
space.
Yep, versus Solomon's three room

2035
01:55:32,560 --> 01:55:34,680
and the Moses Tabernacle is 3
room.

2036
01:55:34,800 --> 01:55:38,160
Interesting.
Do you know what the Inuma Elish

2037
01:55:38,160 --> 01:55:40,600
is?
I have no idea bro.

2038
01:55:40,640 --> 01:55:47,440
So that's the Babylonian
porpoise mythology that has to

2039
01:55:47,440 --> 01:55:50,000
do with the flood.
OK, You know Epic of Gilgamesh.

2040
01:55:50,000 --> 01:55:52,040
OK, All right.
I'm I'm tracking now.

2041
01:55:53,480 --> 01:55:56,720
So do you know that in the Epic
of Gilgamesh there was an arc

2042
01:55:56,720 --> 01:55:58,400
story?
I did, Yep.

2043
01:55:58,920 --> 01:56:01,120
Yep.
It didn't seem quite as grand as

2044
01:56:01,120 --> 01:56:04,520
the arc, right?
No, it's this is going to blow

2045
01:56:04,520 --> 01:56:06,200
your freaking mind, Dave.
OK.

2046
01:56:06,240 --> 01:56:11,840
All right.
So Gilgamesh's arc is 120 cubits

2047
01:56:12,960 --> 01:56:17,320
cubed.
OK, but if you square it, you

2048
01:56:17,320 --> 01:56:19,320
know, with like, you know,
without it being a

2049
01:56:19,320 --> 01:56:21,880
three-dimensional, but it was 3
dimensional, that's 140.

2050
01:56:22,040 --> 01:56:28,600
That's a so 120 ^2 is 14,400.
So that's got the 144.

2051
01:56:29,200 --> 01:56:31,280
Oh, OK going on there.
All right.

2052
01:56:31,280 --> 01:56:32,320
Yeah.
So that's pretty.

2053
01:56:32,360 --> 01:56:38,680
That's sacred geometry, right?
And it was divided into 7

2054
01:56:38,680 --> 01:56:43,040
levels.
Gilgamesh is what the Ark so is.

2055
01:56:44,360 --> 01:56:47,440
How do you say this name?
Because Noah's got us.

2056
01:56:47,480 --> 01:56:51,120
The character that resembles
Noah in this has a super

2057
01:56:51,120 --> 01:56:53,880
convoluted name that I need to
pronounce by reading it.

2058
01:56:53,880 --> 01:57:00,200
It's Utnapishtam.
So Utnapishtam is the the Noah

2059
01:57:00,320 --> 01:57:04,240
and he builds the ark that
preserves humanity because the

2060
01:57:04,240 --> 01:57:07,560
gods decide that humans are too
troublesome and pissing them off

2061
01:57:07,560 --> 01:57:09,920
and they decide to wipe out the
the earth with the flood.

2062
01:57:10,400 --> 01:57:12,960
And one of the gods in the
divine assembly in the divine

2063
01:57:12,960 --> 01:57:17,880
council of the gods named AIA
goes and talks to Utnapishtam

2064
01:57:18,880 --> 01:57:24,480
through a veil in a temple.
It's a, it's a sanctuary made

2065
01:57:24,480 --> 01:57:30,960
with reeds that was in a
peninsula or on a peninsula and

2066
01:57:32,200 --> 01:57:36,600
or whatever the inverted form of
that is, a Cape or a sure

2067
01:57:36,640 --> 01:57:38,640
whatever.
And I can't recall those

2068
01:57:38,640 --> 01:57:42,800
details.
And AIA goes down to the temple

2069
01:57:42,800 --> 01:57:45,600
and like is talking to
Uttanaprashtam like a Catholic

2070
01:57:45,600 --> 01:57:48,640
priest would talk to a member of
the congregation through the

2071
01:57:48,640 --> 01:57:50,840
screen, you know, OK, a
confession, right?

2072
01:57:50,960 --> 01:57:54,760
It's just like that.
And so these motifs are the veil

2073
01:57:54,760 --> 01:57:57,240
is in the is preserved.
This is imagery right?

2074
01:57:57,240 --> 01:57:58,840
From the temple, from the our
temple.

2075
01:57:58,840 --> 01:58:00,920
Yeah.
Immersing with the Lord through

2076
01:58:00,920 --> 01:58:04,720
the veil.
Aya says the earth's going to be

2077
01:58:04,720 --> 01:58:06,640
destroyed and this is what
you're going to do.

2078
01:58:07,040 --> 01:58:14,280
And Aya tells them to take this
building and deconstruct it and

2079
01:58:14,280 --> 01:58:19,320
build the ark.
So they so they they take the

2080
01:58:19,320 --> 01:58:23,120
temple and build it into the
ark, which already has temple

2081
01:58:23,120 --> 01:58:26,240
imagery at the right, and
construct it into essentially,

2082
01:58:26,600 --> 01:58:30,760
it is what it is.
It's a temple and it's a perfect

2083
01:58:30,760 --> 01:58:32,000
cube.
Do you know what the Holy of

2084
01:58:32,000 --> 01:58:33,480
Holies was in the Temple of
Solomon?

2085
01:58:33,760 --> 01:58:35,080
Perfect cube.
It's a perfect cube.

2086
01:58:35,240 --> 01:58:40,480
It's 10 cubits cubed.
OK versus 120, but whatever.

2087
01:58:40,960 --> 01:58:42,080
Whatever.
Same thing.

2088
01:58:42,080 --> 01:58:45,840
Yeah, but the Kaaba in Mecca?
120 cubits.

2089
01:58:45,920 --> 01:58:48,080
I don't know about the I should
have looked that up, but it's a

2090
01:58:48,080 --> 01:58:49,480
perfect cube.
OK?

2091
01:58:49,480 --> 01:58:52,120
It's also attributed to have
been built by Abraham and

2092
01:58:52,120 --> 01:58:55,040
Ishmael, right?
Which leads me to think that was

2093
01:58:55,040 --> 01:58:57,640
a temple sanctuary structure.
Yep.

2094
01:58:57,880 --> 01:59:00,040
No, you're right.
All the way through.

2095
01:59:00,280 --> 01:59:02,720
What is the New Jerusalem when
it comes down to the Book of

2096
01:59:02,720 --> 01:59:03,840
Revelations?
The cube.

2097
01:59:03,920 --> 01:59:06,600
It's a perfect cube with the
Tree of life being restored.

2098
01:59:07,680 --> 01:59:09,440
So the temple imagery through,
through, through, through.

2099
01:59:10,040 --> 01:59:11,920
So.
That is crazy.

2100
01:59:11,920 --> 01:59:15,360
It gets better.
Noah's Ark is 3 decks,

2101
01:59:16,000 --> 01:59:20,600
three-part temple space.
OK, each deck is three times the

2102
01:59:20,600 --> 01:59:25,320
size of exactly exactly 3 times
the size of the Court of the

2103
01:59:25,320 --> 01:59:30,520
Tabernacle of Moses.
So it's 3 / 3 / 3.

2104
01:59:31,160 --> 01:59:36,640
So you have 9 equal segments.
Each layer, each story is

2105
01:59:36,640 --> 01:59:38,640
threes, you know, divided by
three.

2106
01:59:41,560 --> 01:59:45,000
That makes nine Tabernacle
courts in Noah's Ark.

2107
01:59:45,840 --> 01:59:50,200
Each floor of the Gilgamesh Ark
was also divided by 9.

2108
01:59:50,880 --> 01:59:54,400
Holy cow.
So that makes not in like

2109
01:59:54,400 --> 01:59:56,480
because the ratios are
different, but like it make.

2110
01:59:56,480 --> 02:00:00,280
This makes the Gilgamesh Ark
roughly 7 times the magnitude

2111
02:00:00,280 --> 02:00:03,960
numerically of Noah's.
Not like in proportion to size,

2112
02:00:03,960 --> 02:00:06,680
but just like the way it was
laid out, and like symbolically

2113
02:00:06,680 --> 02:00:08,640
like 7.
Right.

2114
02:00:08,640 --> 02:00:12,840
Yeah.
In times 7A multitude, the Ark,

2115
02:00:16,200 --> 02:00:19,480
in addition to the Temple of
Solomon and the Tabernacle of

2116
02:00:19,480 --> 02:00:23,280
Moses, are the only buildings in
the book in the Bible that are

2117
02:00:23,280 --> 02:00:26,040
dictated by God through direct
revelation as far as the

2118
02:00:26,040 --> 02:00:27,480
architecture goes.
Right.

2119
02:00:28,400 --> 02:00:31,520
So the ark is fitting in with a
temple as far, you know,

2120
02:00:31,920 --> 02:00:35,560
through, through and through
here in the Septuagint, the word

2121
02:00:35,560 --> 02:00:38,960
for Ark, Noah's Ark and the Ark
of the Covenant are the same

2122
02:00:39,320 --> 02:00:44,880
word.
And just, you know, we kind of

2123
02:00:44,880 --> 02:00:47,040
cover this a little bit, but my
footnote here says the ark and

2124
02:00:47,040 --> 02:00:50,520
the Babylonian myth more
resembles the heavenly holy of

2125
02:00:50,520 --> 02:00:54,280
Holies slash New Jerusalem in
John's Revelation that returns

2126
02:00:54,280 --> 02:00:58,640
to the earth than Noah's not
cube shaped ark, right?

2127
02:00:58,760 --> 02:01:02,680
But there is consistent temple
themes throughout all this.

2128
02:01:04,200 --> 02:01:06,320
There, there we have to be right
and.

2129
02:01:06,320 --> 02:01:08,600
There is, it's undeniable at
this point, especially

2130
02:01:08,600 --> 02:01:10,800
considering where, where we're
going to go next.

2131
02:01:10,840 --> 02:01:12,600
OK.
Do you have any couple questions

2132
02:01:12,600 --> 02:01:16,280
or comments?
No, just it changes the

2133
02:01:16,280 --> 02:01:18,000
perception of the arc now,
right?

2134
02:01:18,000 --> 02:01:23,160
I mean, yes, I I'm just
imagining, right?

2135
02:01:23,160 --> 02:01:25,640
Because this is, you know,
obviously well before the

2136
02:01:25,640 --> 02:01:29,200
Levites.
Makes you wonder if ordinances

2137
02:01:29,200 --> 02:01:32,400
weren't happening.
Well, then you have levitical

2138
02:01:32,400 --> 02:01:35,560
type ordinances happening at
least because emphasis on clean

2139
02:01:35,560 --> 02:01:37,960
animals, which are priestly
sacrifice type stuff.

2140
02:01:38,440 --> 02:01:42,560
So that's associated with the
temple or with the ark and the

2141
02:01:42,560 --> 02:01:45,280
temple.
But in the getting into Genesis

2142
02:01:45,280 --> 02:01:51,320
9, I have this in my notes.
This titled the temple garden

2143
02:01:51,320 --> 02:01:53,280
restored through Noah question
mark.

2144
02:01:53,920 --> 02:01:58,000
So Genesis 9/1 and God blessed
Noah and his sons and said unto

2145
02:01:58,000 --> 02:02:02,240
them, be fruitful and multiply
and replenish the earth temple

2146
02:02:02,240 --> 02:02:04,120
stuff.
Yep, temple covenants right?

2147
02:02:04,520 --> 02:02:08,680
Genesis 98 through 9 and 11 And
God spake unto Noah and to his

2148
02:02:08,680 --> 02:02:12,440
sons with him saying and behold,
I establish my covenant with you

2149
02:02:12,520 --> 02:02:15,840
and with your seed after you.
Neither shall all flesh be cut

2150
02:02:15,840 --> 02:02:18,400
off anymore by the waters of a
flood, neither shall there be

2151
02:02:18,400 --> 02:02:19,720
any more flood to destroy the
earth.

2152
02:02:20,160 --> 02:02:22,600
So a promise to be to be
fruitful.

2153
02:02:22,640 --> 02:02:27,480
Yep, a covenant is established
in verse 12.

2154
02:02:27,520 --> 02:02:29,480
God says this is the token of
the covenant.

2155
02:02:29,480 --> 02:02:32,560
I shall give to you tokens and
covenants, your blessing.

2156
02:02:33,600 --> 02:02:37,640
Yeah.
Noah began to be a husband then,

2157
02:02:37,640 --> 02:02:41,160
and planted a vineyard, which is
analogous to the Garden of Eden,

2158
02:02:41,160 --> 02:02:42,640
Right.
So you have a new Garden of

2159
02:02:42,640 --> 02:02:45,280
Eden.
And he drank of the wine, and

2160
02:02:45,280 --> 02:02:47,720
was drunken, and was uncovered
within his tent.

2161
02:02:48,280 --> 02:02:51,760
And Ham, the father of Canaan,
saw the nakedness of his father

2162
02:02:51,760 --> 02:02:53,160
and told his two brethren
without.

2163
02:02:53,600 --> 02:02:56,560
And Shem and Japheth took a
garment and laid it upon both

2164
02:02:56,560 --> 02:02:58,480
their shoulders.
And what went backward and

2165
02:02:58,480 --> 02:03:00,040
covered the nakedness of their
father.

2166
02:03:00,040 --> 02:03:02,320
And their faces went backwards
and they saw not their father's

2167
02:03:02,320 --> 02:03:04,720
nakedness.
They have garments in the

2168
02:03:04,720 --> 02:03:10,560
equation with blessing to be be
fruitful, a covenant and tokens.

2169
02:03:10,960 --> 02:03:14,320
Interesting.
And when that was happening,

2170
02:03:14,320 --> 02:03:15,680
where was Noah?
He was in a tent.

2171
02:03:15,800 --> 02:03:18,960
What's a tent?
It's a it's a temple.

2172
02:03:19,240 --> 02:03:20,920
Yeah.
A rudimentary 1.

2173
02:03:20,920 --> 02:03:24,040
Yep.
But it's all it's through,

2174
02:03:24,040 --> 02:03:27,120
through, through.
And Even so, the English

2175
02:03:27,120 --> 02:03:29,480
translation says it was Noah's.
It says his tent.

2176
02:03:29,480 --> 02:03:35,400
Noah wasn't his tent.
The Hebrew says that get there's

2177
02:03:35,400 --> 02:03:37,400
in the Hebrew, there's a
feminine possessive.

2178
02:03:37,720 --> 02:03:40,880
That would mean if you're
translating it strictly normally

2179
02:03:40,880 --> 02:03:43,560
under normal conditions, it
should be her tent.

2180
02:03:44,080 --> 02:03:46,320
OK.
And so some rabbis and people

2181
02:03:46,320 --> 02:03:49,120
have been like, oh, what is it?
Well, if it you know, because

2182
02:03:49,120 --> 02:03:50,960
they could, they can't help but
acknowledge that.

2183
02:03:51,560 --> 02:03:54,640
And so they'll say stuff like,
oh, that was Noah's wife's tent.

2184
02:03:54,720 --> 02:04:00,520
And so the curse on ham slash
Canaan was because maybe he went

2185
02:04:00,520 --> 02:04:03,920
in dirt when Noah and his wife
were intimate and therefore

2186
02:04:04,080 --> 02:04:07,360
discovered his father's
nakedness, as it says.

2187
02:04:07,360 --> 02:04:09,320
And you know, because
Deuteronomy and Leviticus talk

2188
02:04:09,320 --> 02:04:11,240
about, you know, laws regarding
that.

2189
02:04:11,240 --> 02:04:15,560
And there's also apocryphal
stories in Judaism and even

2190
02:04:15,560 --> 02:04:18,120
attributed to Joseph Smith that
think that there is more a more

2191
02:04:18,120 --> 02:04:26,800
nefarious interpretation of that
such that Ham went in to do

2192
02:04:26,800 --> 02:04:30,120
either unspeakable crimes like a
rape, right, essentially, or to

2193
02:04:30,120 --> 02:04:34,760
castrate Noah.
I've heard that as well.

2194
02:04:35,000 --> 02:04:37,360
The rabbi say that, you know,
both of those.

2195
02:04:38,640 --> 02:04:41,240
I'm not inclined to think either
way on those.

2196
02:04:41,440 --> 02:04:43,000
Right.
But so how do you explain her

2197
02:04:43,000 --> 02:04:44,280
tent?
Yeah, but that's what the

2198
02:04:44,280 --> 02:04:48,840
conclusions that they come up
with reading that all the it's

2199
02:04:48,840 --> 02:04:55,080
because the temple is female.
Oh, OK, I can see that.

2200
02:04:55,080 --> 02:04:56,880
Yeah.
The temple has a veil.

2201
02:04:57,480 --> 02:04:59,720
Yep.
Like a woman and a womb.

2202
02:05:00,120 --> 02:05:02,240
And I'm not going to comment on
what that means, but the temple

2203
02:05:02,240 --> 02:05:03,360
has a womb.
Yeah.

2204
02:05:04,280 --> 02:05:08,520
And so the temple is female.
So there is a temple setting

2205
02:05:08,520 --> 02:05:13,360
happening in the tent.
In addition to the tent.

2206
02:05:13,360 --> 02:05:17,160
Noah built an offer, built an
altar, offered sacrifice.

2207
02:05:17,800 --> 02:05:20,520
We see that he made a covenant.
This indicates temple and

2208
02:05:20,520 --> 02:05:27,320
priesthood activity.
Jewish legends support or say

2209
02:05:27,320 --> 02:05:29,720
that the temple in Jerusalem was
built on what they called the

2210
02:05:29,720 --> 02:05:31,200
foundation stone.
You know what that is?

2211
02:05:32,120 --> 02:05:34,520
Yeah, that sounds familiar.
So I think it's the same rock as

2212
02:05:34,520 --> 02:05:39,280
the Dome of the Rock, right?
But it it's mythologically.

2213
02:05:39,280 --> 02:05:41,160
Whether this is literal or not
doesn't matter.

2214
02:05:41,440 --> 02:05:45,440
Mythologically, the foundation
stone is said to be the first

2215
02:05:45,440 --> 02:05:48,960
place that the waters receded
from.

2216
02:05:49,680 --> 02:05:52,280
That was that was uncovered when
the waters receded from the

2217
02:05:52,280 --> 02:05:54,920
flood, and so that's where the
place where the temple was

2218
02:05:54,920 --> 02:05:58,160
built.
Anciently, temples were also

2219
02:05:59,400 --> 02:06:02,000
consecrated on places with the
same mythology.

2220
02:06:02,120 --> 02:06:06,760
Right.
And built on top of other

2221
02:06:06,760 --> 02:06:10,800
temples that when empires
conquered other empires.

2222
02:06:11,320 --> 02:06:13,800
If I'm not mistaken, there was
also a tradition, I can't

2223
02:06:13,800 --> 02:06:18,080
remember if it's Hebrew or
Islamic, that said that the Dome

2224
02:06:18,080 --> 02:06:23,280
of the Rock was built over the
place where Abraham was going to

2225
02:06:23,280 --> 02:06:24,600
offer.
It by yeah, the same place,

2226
02:06:24,600 --> 02:06:25,880
Yeah.
Yeah.

2227
02:06:25,880 --> 02:06:30,920
So, yeah, the Temple Mount, the
temple was built over that same

2228
02:06:30,920 --> 02:06:32,160
place too.
So it's both the same place.

2229
02:06:32,160 --> 02:06:33,840
It's the place where the flood
receded first.

2230
02:06:34,040 --> 02:06:35,880
It's the place where Abraham
went to offer Isaac.

2231
02:06:36,200 --> 02:06:37,640
I think there's some other
stories there.

2232
02:06:37,720 --> 02:06:41,040
It's also the the place where
the flood started, right?

2233
02:06:41,400 --> 02:06:45,800
And so this represents God
conquering the chaos, which

2234
02:06:45,800 --> 02:06:49,000
because the waters primordially
represent, represent chaos,

2235
02:06:49,280 --> 02:06:52,000
because that's what the earth
was before God made the world,

2236
02:06:52,000 --> 02:06:54,840
right?
In Genesis 1, God's Spirit was

2237
02:06:54,840 --> 02:06:58,280
upon the face of the deep.
Right, right.

2238
02:06:58,600 --> 02:07:01,480
Interesting.
So I want to touch on Noah here

2239
02:07:01,480 --> 02:07:03,760
for a second.
Yeah, this will be a good place

2240
02:07:03,760 --> 02:07:06,000
where I where I stopped myself
early.

2241
02:07:06,000 --> 02:07:10,080
I'm sure I'd get to it.
So there's an interesting quote

2242
02:07:10,240 --> 02:07:14,160
from Joseph Smith, Yeah, about
Noah being drunk.

2243
02:07:14,720 --> 02:07:16,160
Do you remember where he said
there was?

2244
02:07:16,160 --> 02:07:18,080
Got it right here.
All right, go ahead and read

2245
02:07:18,080 --> 02:07:19,560
that.
Or one of them anyways.

2246
02:07:19,560 --> 02:07:23,200
There might be two, but he it
says that Noah was not drunk,

2247
02:07:23,200 --> 02:07:26,280
but in a vision.
Is that from Joseph Smith?

2248
02:07:26,280 --> 02:07:27,720
Yeah.
There was another one that said

2249
02:07:27,720 --> 02:07:29,960
that he was drunk but that there
was no sin in it.

2250
02:07:30,120 --> 02:07:31,680
Yes.
That's also true.

2251
02:07:31,800 --> 02:07:36,320
OK, I've wondered about that a
lot.

2252
02:07:36,840 --> 02:07:40,000
Right?
Like, because even though

2253
02:07:40,000 --> 02:07:44,800
fundamentalists are, you know,
read the word of Wisdom as it's

2254
02:07:44,800 --> 02:07:46,800
given, right, it's not a
commandment.

2255
02:07:48,920 --> 02:07:51,560
And some decide to live it
strictly and some don't, right?

2256
02:07:52,160 --> 02:07:56,400
And it, it was one of those
things where no matter what the

2257
02:07:56,400 --> 02:08:00,000
case is, there seems to be a
little bit of, of a prohibition

2258
02:08:00,000 --> 02:08:05,440
against being drunk, right?
Or outside yourself a little

2259
02:08:05,440 --> 02:08:09,400
bit.
And I thought, how could Joseph

2260
02:08:09,400 --> 02:08:12,120
say there was no sin in that?
What's Joseph trying?

2261
02:08:12,880 --> 02:08:15,840
What's Joseph saying there?
And I sat there and I thought

2262
02:08:15,840 --> 02:08:17,000
about it.
I thought about it.

2263
02:08:17,680 --> 02:08:21,320
And this actually came from a
guy who worked with me who had

2264
02:08:21,800 --> 02:08:27,160
done a couple tours in Iraq,
wasn't Mormon, but, you know,

2265
02:08:27,160 --> 02:08:30,440
talking about, about Noah being
drunk or whatever.

2266
02:08:30,440 --> 02:08:32,160
He's like, I know why Noah got
drunk.

2267
02:08:32,680 --> 02:08:34,720
And I was like, well, explain it
to me.

2268
02:08:35,160 --> 02:08:39,200
And he said he had PTSD and I'm
like, shut up.

2269
02:08:39,640 --> 02:08:42,320
And he's like, think about it.
Yeah, from watching all everyone

2270
02:08:42,320 --> 02:08:44,600
die.
Can you imagine people beating

2271
02:08:44,600 --> 02:08:47,000
on the Ark?
Let me in, let me in.

2272
02:08:47,960 --> 02:08:50,280
And if you're a good man?
You'd want to.

2273
02:08:50,400 --> 02:08:55,880
Sure you'd want to, but the Lord
said no and you have to endure

2274
02:08:55,880 --> 02:09:00,800
that and you just have to sit
and listen to the screams until

2275
02:09:00,800 --> 02:09:04,160
the waters overtake you.
And it's made me wonder, this is

2276
02:09:04,160 --> 02:09:06,400
the book of Dave, page one,
verse one.

2277
02:09:06,840 --> 02:09:08,760
But maybe that's why there was
no sin in it.

2278
02:09:09,080 --> 02:09:12,040
Maybe that was the only way he
could cope at that time.

2279
02:09:12,280 --> 02:09:16,560
So I won't take a different
approach, but I've heard that

2280
02:09:16,560 --> 02:09:20,200
before and I'm not going to.
I'm not like dissing on that,

2281
02:09:20,200 --> 02:09:21,640
but I do have another approach
to this.

2282
02:09:24,000 --> 02:09:27,920
But before we get to that real
quick, Psalms 29, verse 10 talks

2283
02:09:27,920 --> 02:09:32,480
about the Lord Jehovah being
enthroned over the flood, which

2284
02:09:32,480 --> 02:09:34,440
is, yeah, just back to this
temple.

2285
02:09:34,440 --> 02:09:36,680
Yeah, like the temple being the
throne of God as well.

2286
02:09:36,680 --> 02:09:39,160
You know, that like, OK, it's
built on the place that

2287
02:09:39,360 --> 02:09:48,120
memorializes God conquering
chaos and the tent of Noah that

2288
02:09:48,120 --> 02:09:50,440
is this rudimentary ordnance
house, ordnance building,

2289
02:09:50,440 --> 02:09:53,800
whatever the sacred sanctuary
being at the foot of the

2290
02:09:53,800 --> 02:09:59,480
mountain.
Mount Ararat is also symbolic of

2291
02:10:00,120 --> 02:10:03,440
the Tabernacle of the
congregation in Israel being at

2292
02:10:03,440 --> 02:10:06,800
the foot of the mountain with
Mount Sinai with God at the top

2293
02:10:07,040 --> 02:10:10,600
and the.
You know, OK, yeah, no, that

2294
02:10:10,600 --> 02:10:12,400
makes a lot.
So there's there's so much

2295
02:10:12,480 --> 02:10:14,600
repeat imagery and.
Symbolism there is.

2296
02:10:14,680 --> 02:10:19,320
And I, like I said, this is one
of my favorite lessons because

2297
02:10:19,320 --> 02:10:21,720
of all this stuff, because it
just started blowing my mind

2298
02:10:21,960 --> 02:10:23,320
when I was looking into this
stuff.

2299
02:10:23,840 --> 02:10:28,000
So the wine, back to the wine.
I think there was something

2300
02:10:28,000 --> 02:10:30,880
happening like what we would
call perhaps a solemn assembly.

2301
02:10:31,320 --> 02:10:32,720
OK.
All right.

2302
02:10:33,440 --> 02:10:35,880
Is a temple set up?
Yeah.

2303
02:10:36,560 --> 02:10:40,320
Joseph Smith says that Noah was
at, you know, apocryphal.

2304
02:10:40,320 --> 02:10:42,720
This is a second hand source.
I don't have the source handy,

2305
02:10:42,720 --> 02:10:45,560
but I think it's in words of
Joseph Smith, though, actually.

2306
02:10:45,560 --> 02:10:48,480
So maybe it's not second hand.
Noah was not drunk, but in a

2307
02:10:48,480 --> 02:10:52,320
vision.
And I would add perhaps left

2308
02:10:52,400 --> 02:10:57,480
helpless in a room in the tent
slash temple like Moses and

2309
02:10:57,480 --> 02:11:00,800
Joseph Smith themselves were
left helpless after their

2310
02:11:00,800 --> 02:11:04,760
visionary experience seeing God.
Yeah, right, because that's what

2311
02:11:04,760 --> 02:11:06,680
it says, you know, in the book
of Moses, right?

2312
02:11:07,720 --> 02:11:10,800
They were completely fatigued
after being in the.

2313
02:11:10,800 --> 02:11:11,720
Board wiped out?
Yep.

2314
02:11:12,560 --> 02:11:16,040
Which allows ham to come in and
steal the garment, right?

2315
02:11:17,240 --> 02:11:20,840
Interesting versus him just
being drunk.

2316
02:11:21,240 --> 02:11:23,880
But there's a, you know, should
we just skip to that?

2317
02:11:25,240 --> 02:11:29,280
Why why is why does it say to
you who's drunk then?

2318
02:11:29,400 --> 02:11:30,680
I don't know.
Maybe we're dealing with

2319
02:11:30,680 --> 02:11:34,720
interpolations.
But so it seems as if the

2320
02:11:34,720 --> 02:11:39,360
scriptures are trying to teach
us that the flood and Noah, Noah

2321
02:11:39,360 --> 02:11:43,280
is a second Adam and that the
flood is a literal recreation

2322
02:11:43,280 --> 02:11:46,320
of, of the early, you know, few
chapters earlier in Genesis of

2323
02:11:46,320 --> 02:11:49,400
the creation of Adam.
For example, there's literary

2324
02:11:49,400 --> 02:11:52,600
connections here between
primordial waters before God,

2325
02:11:52,600 --> 02:11:55,120
right?
You know, creates or organizes

2326
02:11:55,120 --> 02:11:59,160
the earth and the floodwaters.
You have the Spirit of God upon

2327
02:11:59,160 --> 02:12:01,640
the waters and you have Noah and
the ark upon the waters.

2328
02:12:02,040 --> 02:12:06,920
You have a garden and you have a
vineyard planted by Noah, garden

2329
02:12:06,920 --> 02:12:10,680
tended by Adam and vineyard
tended by Noah and his sons.

2330
02:12:11,240 --> 02:12:15,240
You have a garment of skins
given to Adam and Eve, and then

2331
02:12:15,240 --> 02:12:17,280
you have a garment of covering
placed upon Noah.

2332
02:12:17,560 --> 02:12:21,320
Right.
You have fruit that precipitated

2333
02:12:21,320 --> 02:12:24,720
a fall.
And I think that the wine was to

2334
02:12:24,720 --> 02:12:27,720
support the imagery of Noah
having a fall.

2335
02:12:28,040 --> 02:12:30,960
NRF just OK, just like Adam.
OK.

2336
02:12:31,760 --> 02:12:34,080
Yeah.
So it's a literary device, OK,

2337
02:12:34,120 --> 02:12:37,720
to emphasize what we're talking
about earlier, maybe not literal

2338
02:12:37,720 --> 02:12:40,320
historical truths, but symbolic
truths.

2339
02:12:40,600 --> 02:12:43,320
We're going back into a fallen
world, right?

2340
02:12:43,560 --> 02:12:47,400
Right away.
There is the fall of Adam is

2341
02:12:47,400 --> 02:12:51,040
equated to Noah's drunkenness.
And then there's the curse of

2342
02:12:51,040 --> 02:12:52,480
the serpent and the curse of
Canaan.

2343
02:12:53,960 --> 02:12:57,040
Yeah, it's all there.
It's all there symbolically.

2344
02:12:57,240 --> 02:12:58,760
They all have their
counterparts.

2345
02:12:58,760 --> 02:13:05,280
It's all, it's all a, a kind of
temple motif, 100% from the

2346
02:13:05,280 --> 02:13:07,760
construction of the ark being
revealed by the word of God,

2347
02:13:07,760 --> 02:13:10,160
just like the Tabernacle and
Moses, to the

2348
02:13:10,160 --> 02:13:14,040
compartmentalization of it all
the way down to all of that.

2349
02:13:14,160 --> 02:13:17,600
It's temple through, through and
through in our estate.

2350
02:13:19,760 --> 02:13:22,840
There's also some, I think this
was discovered in the Dead Sea

2351
02:13:22,840 --> 02:13:24,200
Scrolls.
I'm not sure, but there's

2352
02:13:24,200 --> 02:13:28,160
something called the Genesis
Apocryphon that kind of supports

2353
02:13:28,160 --> 02:13:33,040
this quote from Joseph that Noah
wasn't drunk, but in a vision.

2354
02:13:35,080 --> 02:13:39,360
This Jeffrey Bradshaw, who's a
scholar in the church, a lot of

2355
02:13:39,360 --> 02:13:41,960
this information I got from him
some some some of it's my

2356
02:13:41,960 --> 02:13:46,320
analysis, but but he says that
the prophet's view agrees with

2357
02:13:46,320 --> 02:13:49,440
the Genesis Apocryphon, which
immediately after describing a

2358
02:13:49,440 --> 02:13:53,440
ritual where Noah and his family
drink wine, reports in detail a

2359
02:13:53,440 --> 02:13:56,000
divine dream vision that
revealed the fate of Noah's

2360
02:13:56,000 --> 02:13:58,640
posterity.
This agrees with the general

2361
02:13:58,640 --> 02:14:02,320
content of Enoch's revelation in
Moses 7, verse 51, where the

2362
02:14:02,320 --> 02:14:05,680
Lord covenanted with Enoch and
swear unto him with an oath that

2363
02:14:05,680 --> 02:14:08,080
he would stay the floods and
that he would call upon the

2364
02:14:08,080 --> 02:14:11,480
children of Noah.
In light of this evidence, verse

2365
02:14:11,480 --> 02:14:15,120
21 of Chapter 9, I might be
modified to read.

2366
02:14:15,640 --> 02:14:18,520
And he drank of the wine, and
was in a vision, and was

2367
02:14:18,520 --> 02:14:20,360
uncovered within the tent of the
Lord.

2368
02:14:24,040 --> 02:14:27,920
With the wine of the Lord.
Or that they were doing

2369
02:14:27,920 --> 02:14:30,800
ordinance, a sacred, solemn
assembly setting that

2370
02:14:30,800 --> 02:14:35,280
precipitated a this is my
interpreter, you know, Bradshaw

2371
02:14:35,280 --> 02:14:40,240
saying that, yeah, OK, the wine
led to the vision but didn't

2372
02:14:40,240 --> 02:14:45,840
emphasize my emphasis, is that
what is the state that he's in

2373
02:14:45,840 --> 02:14:48,400
that he's helpless was the
result of being in the presence

2374
02:14:48,400 --> 02:14:52,560
of God and not right?
No, I could get behind that too.

2375
02:14:52,640 --> 02:14:55,320
I yeah, I think that's the best
way to understand this that I've

2376
02:14:55,320 --> 02:14:56,560
ever come across.
Right.

2377
02:14:56,640 --> 02:14:57,760
Yeah, No, that makes sense.
But.

2378
02:14:57,920 --> 02:15:00,040
I am leapfrogging off of him and
nibbly.

2379
02:15:01,240 --> 02:15:04,240
He also says that there's
possibility in Ham's wrongdoing

2380
02:15:04,520 --> 02:15:06,920
that it consisted in his having
approached, without

2381
02:15:06,920 --> 02:15:09,520
authorization, the inner
curtains of the sacred tent

2382
02:15:09,880 --> 02:15:11,560
where Noah was enrapped in
vision.

2383
02:15:11,840 --> 02:15:15,160
Some ancient traditions viewed
Ham's actions as a part of an

2384
02:15:15,160 --> 02:15:18,480
effort to steal Noah's
priesthood garment and undermine

2385
02:15:18,480 --> 02:15:21,600
his authority, which I support.
Nibley argues from the

2386
02:15:21,600 --> 02:15:24,680
interpretations of some ancient
readers that the Hebrew term for

2387
02:15:24,680 --> 02:15:30,400
nakedness in this verse because
the the rabbi's would interpret

2388
02:15:30,400 --> 02:15:32,960
the nakedness and that Ham
discovered his father's

2389
02:15:32,960 --> 02:15:35,160
nakedness as being like that
there was a sexual crime

2390
02:15:35,160 --> 02:15:37,840
committed.
But Nibley saying that the word

2391
02:15:37,960 --> 02:15:46,120
irwatt may be better rendered as
skins orot, so orot or orot, in

2392
02:15:46,120 --> 02:15:48,880
other words, an animal skin
garment corresponding in this

2393
02:15:48,880 --> 02:15:52,440
instance with the coat of skins
given to Adam and Eve, which

2394
02:15:52,440 --> 02:15:55,840
symbolically we discussed,
right, The Temple motif, right?

2395
02:15:55,840 --> 02:15:59,920
So I'm all for that.
The Babylonian Talmud, which is

2396
02:15:59,920 --> 02:16:03,520
also rabbinical, supports this.
It says the tunic that the Holy

2397
02:16:03,520 --> 02:16:07,280
One, blessed be his name, made
for Adam and his wife was with

2398
02:16:07,280 --> 02:16:09,800
Noah in the ark.
And when they left the ark, Ham

2399
02:16:09,800 --> 02:16:12,840
the son of Noah took it and left
with it and then passed it on to

2400
02:16:12,840 --> 02:16:16,080
Nimrod.
And I didn't look up the source

2401
02:16:16,240 --> 02:16:18,800
because they didn't give me an
exact source, but they gave me a

2402
02:16:18,800 --> 02:16:22,200
date.
But it said Bradshaw says that

2403
02:16:22,200 --> 02:16:26,360
Hebrew C Kimball also says that
Ham took clothing off of Noah.

2404
02:16:27,280 --> 02:16:29,400
Interesting.
And so that might be in the

2405
02:16:29,400 --> 02:16:31,400
journal Discourses.
It didn't cite that.

2406
02:16:31,520 --> 02:16:34,639
It just gave a date for when he
said that it's January 11th,

2407
02:16:34,760 --> 02:16:38,799
1857.
So not so much a sexual thing as

2408
02:16:38,799 --> 02:16:42,680
it is a.
It's a temple setting and and

2409
02:16:42,840 --> 02:16:46,320
and Noah is incapacitated from
his vision.

2410
02:16:46,559 --> 02:16:49,639
And Ham wants authority, so he's
going to take the garment.

2411
02:16:49,639 --> 02:16:52,280
So yeah, in a state of
opportunity.

2412
02:16:52,559 --> 02:17:00,600
Right.
There's a scholar Michael

2413
02:17:00,600 --> 02:17:05,400
Morales writes in one of his
books, which was fairly

2414
02:17:05,400 --> 02:17:08,120
interesting to me.
He says as the righteous man,

2415
02:17:09,520 --> 02:17:13,000
Noah not only passes through the
door of the ark sanctuary, but

2416
02:17:13,000 --> 02:17:15,480
is able to approach the Mount of
the Lord for worship.

2417
02:17:15,959 --> 02:17:19,160
As the priestly figure able to
ascend the mountain of the Lord,

2418
02:17:19,200 --> 02:17:23,040
Noah stands as a new Adam, the
primordial man who dwells in the

2419
02:17:23,040 --> 02:17:26,799
divine presence in Latin Homo
liturgicus.

2420
02:17:27,600 --> 02:17:31,000
As such, he foreshadows the high
priest of the Tabernacle

2421
02:17:31,000 --> 02:17:35,080
cultists who alone will enter
the paradise Paradise, that

2422
02:17:35,160 --> 02:17:40,120
paradise holy of holies.
So this is also a prefigure for

2423
02:17:40,440 --> 02:17:45,360
the right.
And so it seems that something

2424
02:17:45,360 --> 02:17:48,920
is wrong with him entering the
tent and nothing is wrong with

2425
02:17:48,920 --> 02:17:53,600
Shem and Japheth doing so.
Some of postulated like we said

2426
02:17:53,600 --> 02:17:57,400
that Noah had crimes committed
against him, but it could be

2427
02:17:57,400 --> 02:18:00,320
that Ham was simply disqualified
from entering the temple at this

2428
02:18:00,320 --> 02:18:04,120
point and made a bid to obtain a
symbol of his lost priesthood

2429
02:18:04,120 --> 02:18:07,680
authority by taking a garment or
robes of the priesthood from

2430
02:18:07,680 --> 02:18:09,959
Noah.
So others could fain claim it

2431
02:18:10,480 --> 02:18:15,000
from OK, from Noah through Ham,
which supports that's my that's

2432
02:18:15,000 --> 02:18:18,360
my analysis of this version of
the story, because the book of

2433
02:18:18,360 --> 02:18:21,000
Abraham does say that the
Egyptians would fain claim the

2434
02:18:21,000 --> 02:18:24,320
priesthood through no, from the
Noah through Ham.

2435
02:18:24,680 --> 02:18:29,639
And this line of thinking seems
to streamline how that could be.

2436
02:18:29,879 --> 02:18:33,440
Right, right.
No, Yeah.

2437
02:18:36,040 --> 02:18:40,160
And further illustrating that
too is the illustrating the idea

2438
02:18:40,160 --> 02:18:44,480
that the tent is a temple is
that Noah's declaration that's

2439
02:18:44,480 --> 02:18:48,799
Japheth and Shem shall dwell
together in the same tent, and

2440
02:18:48,799 --> 02:18:50,760
that and Canaan shall not be
there.

2441
02:18:51,280 --> 02:18:54,080
Right.
OK, interrupting.

2442
02:18:54,559 --> 02:18:57,879
We have one or two more
sections, not nearly as long as

2443
02:18:57,879 --> 02:18:59,440
those.
No, this has been good dude.

2444
02:18:59,920 --> 02:19:03,360
I'm having a blast.
Yeah, that was my favorite part

2445
02:19:03,440 --> 02:19:07,160
of like all the temple stuff of.
Of Oh yeah, it's just the temple

2446
02:19:07,160 --> 02:19:08,959
motif over and over again,
right?

2447
02:19:09,440 --> 02:19:12,920
In the most least likely place
they find them, yeah.

2448
02:19:13,600 --> 02:19:14,760
But it fits.
It.

2449
02:19:14,920 --> 02:19:18,639
Should be there because it's a
renewal of creation.

2450
02:19:18,680 --> 02:19:22,000
I was on Facebook when I found
out that the this is so I

2451
02:19:22,000 --> 02:19:24,520
shouldn't admit this, but yeah,
I was just scrolling and some

2452
02:19:24,520 --> 02:19:30,280
video came up that describes
Unashpatim's arc being a cube.

2453
02:19:30,879 --> 02:19:33,920
And I was like, I need to look
into that right now because I

2454
02:19:33,920 --> 02:19:36,360
understood that the Holy of
Holies anciently was a cube.

2455
02:19:37,160 --> 02:19:39,639
Up come the bed covers, kiss
your wife.

2456
02:19:39,639 --> 02:19:41,920
Goodnight.
And then Bobby went yeah, yeah,

2457
02:19:42,080 --> 02:19:44,160
yeah, yeah.
I don't know exactly how that

2458
02:19:44,160 --> 02:19:46,200
happened, but I just knew
something was there and it was

2459
02:19:46,200 --> 02:19:50,160
like big unpacking when I
started looking into it and

2460
02:19:50,160 --> 02:19:53,240
especially with the AF speaking
to him.

2461
02:19:53,520 --> 02:19:56,200
Through the veil.
Yeah, and using a temple to

2462
02:19:56,240 --> 02:19:59,000
build it, it's just.
Too much, but it should be

2463
02:19:59,000 --> 02:20:02,080
there, right?
Because, and this may lend

2464
02:20:02,080 --> 02:20:05,840
credence to what Joseph Smith
was talking about, about a world

2465
02:20:05,840 --> 02:20:09,440
versus a planet, right?
Because this is a essentially

2466
02:20:09,440 --> 02:20:12,200
kind of a new creation.
It is, and it's symbolic with

2467
02:20:12,200 --> 02:20:16,280
the New Jerusalem coming down
again, you know, if if you're

2468
02:20:16,280 --> 02:20:19,240
looking at the parallels, not so
much of yeah, because it's

2469
02:20:19,240 --> 02:20:21,200
hidden with Noah's ark, because
the shape is wrong.

2470
02:20:21,200 --> 02:20:24,000
But when you realize that there
was this imagery in the ancient

2471
02:20:24,000 --> 02:20:25,800
world, and John is drawing on
that.

2472
02:20:25,920 --> 02:20:27,760
Yeah.
For the next new world, the new

2473
02:20:27,760 --> 02:20:29,880
heavens and the new earth.
Yeah.

2474
02:20:30,320 --> 02:20:31,840
It's huge.
Yeah.

2475
02:20:31,840 --> 02:20:35,400
And just like just like we were
alluding to earlier where

2476
02:20:35,400 --> 02:20:38,080
Genesis was a temple text,
right.

2477
02:20:38,600 --> 02:20:40,320
OK.
So that's at the first round of

2478
02:20:40,320 --> 02:20:43,320
creation.
And so, yeah, it also makes you

2479
02:20:43,320 --> 02:20:45,680
to ask what's happening with
Adam when he comes here, too.

2480
02:20:45,680 --> 02:20:49,000
Right.
Absolutely, absolutely it does

2481
02:20:49,000 --> 02:20:50,640
right.
Again, the word replenish,

2482
02:20:50,640 --> 02:20:53,760
right.
That's is is this it doesn't

2483
02:20:53,760 --> 02:20:58,560
really quite fit if he is quote
the first person to ever inhabit

2484
02:20:58,800 --> 02:21:02,840
this sphere.
But likewise, you know where,

2485
02:21:02,840 --> 02:21:06,040
where Genesis, you know those
early chapters of Genesis is a

2486
02:21:06,040 --> 02:21:08,960
temple motif.
Well, if God's kind of

2487
02:21:08,960 --> 02:21:12,640
restarting it again, you would
expect another temple motif.

2488
02:21:12,960 --> 02:21:16,360
Yeah, you would to be present.
And so it does fit very nicely

2489
02:21:16,360 --> 02:21:19,040
into that.
It also fits with the current

2490
02:21:19,040 --> 02:21:24,760
the the consistent themes we've
seen throughout our history from

2491
02:21:24,760 --> 02:21:28,200
the beginning to now.
But even in a microcosm that

2492
02:21:28,200 --> 02:21:33,440
restored gospel of apostasy and
and restoring the temple, things

2493
02:21:33,560 --> 02:21:37,160
taken from the temple and the
temple needs to come back every

2494
02:21:37,160 --> 02:21:40,200
single time.
Yeah, that's also what I draw.

2495
02:21:40,240 --> 02:21:41,360
Yeah.
And that's the other thing,

2496
02:21:41,360 --> 02:21:44,120
right?
They, they, they land.

2497
02:21:44,120 --> 02:21:46,800
And it seems to be that they're
either involved in ordinances

2498
02:21:46,800 --> 02:21:48,720
or, or solemn assembly of some
sort.

2499
02:21:48,720 --> 02:21:50,480
Yeah.
And the back to the people using

2500
02:21:50,480 --> 02:21:53,360
Enoch as a scripture, they were
saying the priesthood in

2501
02:21:53,360 --> 02:21:56,720
Jerusalem's apostate.
And we believe that we have

2502
02:21:56,720 --> 02:21:59,240
access to a higher priesthood,
and we're waiting for it to be

2503
02:21:59,440 --> 02:22:04,600
set in order.
We're waiting for this

2504
02:22:04,600 --> 02:22:06,800
Melchizedek priest.
We call him Christ, Right?

2505
02:22:06,800 --> 02:22:08,240
But whatever.
The motif's the same.

2506
02:22:08,320 --> 02:22:09,360
Yeah.
Fundamentalist said the same

2507
02:22:09,360 --> 02:22:10,520
thing with the one mighty and
strong.

2508
02:22:10,720 --> 02:22:13,640
Yeah, they did, you know, and so
I'm just going to leave that

2509
02:22:13,640 --> 02:22:18,000
there, but Yep, Yep.
No, they Yep, we, we did.

2510
02:22:18,640 --> 02:22:21,640
We absolutely did.
But then we we didn't do nothing

2511
02:22:21,640 --> 02:22:24,680
about restoring the temple.
Not for a while.

2512
02:22:24,680 --> 02:22:28,240
No, some wanted to, though I
know that Joseph, Joseph Muster

2513
02:22:29,400 --> 02:22:35,880
wanted to before he died.
So not as fun as the last stuff,

2514
02:22:35,880 --> 02:22:38,360
but there's some Jaredite
connections.

2515
02:22:38,880 --> 02:22:41,040
We'll probably talk more about
the Jaredites in the next lesson

2516
02:22:41,040 --> 02:22:44,520
because we're getting into babe,
right and the great tower stuff.

2517
02:22:44,520 --> 02:22:49,600
But Nibley in support of the
Book of Mormon draws parallels,

2518
02:22:49,800 --> 02:22:56,520
for example, how we have the
Jaredite colony coming over

2519
02:22:56,520 --> 02:23:02,240
through a flood and they're LED.
They come with eight arks.

2520
02:23:02,640 --> 02:23:08,480
Well, the ark had eight people
and they had 8 stones or 16

2521
02:23:08,480 --> 02:23:14,520
stones and that were given
divine light.

2522
02:23:14,840 --> 02:23:18,680
But also there are Babylonian, I
think it's Babylonian.

2523
02:23:18,760 --> 02:23:20,920
There's a there anyway because
there's there's like Midrash or

2524
02:23:20,920 --> 02:23:25,840
Talmudic stuff that Noah had
stones to give them light in the

2525
02:23:25,840 --> 02:23:26,880
ark.
Which and.

2526
02:23:26,880 --> 02:23:32,240
So presupposes the idea that the
brother of Jared got the idea

2527
02:23:32,240 --> 02:23:37,520
not in a vacuum, but knowing
that what they were doing redid

2528
02:23:37,640 --> 02:23:39,920
the Noah thing to.
Absolutely to.

2529
02:23:40,160 --> 02:23:44,240
Use these stones to facilitate
the design.

2530
02:23:44,440 --> 02:23:48,240
So he's drawing on on his
predecessor, so to speak.

2531
02:23:48,240 --> 02:23:51,600
Yeah, and there are those myths
in the Jewish literature that

2532
02:23:51,600 --> 02:23:53,960
and Josephus even talks about it
I believe.

2533
02:23:54,680 --> 02:23:57,960
And further temple themes
regarding the stones.

2534
02:23:57,960 --> 02:24:01,440
Yes.
Are that so there was 8 * 2

2535
02:24:01,440 --> 02:24:04,520
because there's 8 arcs in the
Jared I colony times 26 gets you

2536
02:24:04,520 --> 02:24:08,760
to 16.
The high priest in Israel had 16

2537
02:24:08,760 --> 02:24:13,680
stones on the Urim and Thummim.
So you had, you had 12 on the

2538
02:24:13,680 --> 02:24:16,400
breastplate, right?
You had two, one on your

2539
02:24:16,400 --> 02:24:17,360
shoulder.
Yep.

2540
02:24:17,360 --> 02:24:21,360
And then you had two under the
breastplate, Right. 1616.

2541
02:24:22,360 --> 02:24:24,480
Sure it's a coincidence.
Sure it's a coincidence.

2542
02:24:25,360 --> 02:24:29,760
So consistent symbolism all the
way all the way through.

2543
02:24:30,000 --> 02:24:33,880
Yep.
Yeah, this is also a fun little

2544
02:24:33,880 --> 02:24:36,840
proof text for fundamentalism
and the gospel existing outside

2545
02:24:36,840 --> 02:24:41,680
of certain structures, too,
Nibley says in his book Lehigh

2546
02:24:41,680 --> 02:24:43,480
in the Desert and World of the
Jaredites.

2547
02:24:43,480 --> 02:24:48,400
He says every century sees its
wars, treaties, migrations and

2548
02:24:48,400 --> 02:24:50,920
so forth, but it's always a
different setting.

2549
02:24:51,640 --> 02:24:55,920
So that the test of a historical
document lies, as we have so

2550
02:24:55,920 --> 02:24:59,880
often insisted, not in the story
it tells, but in the casual

2551
02:24:59,880 --> 02:25:02,240
details that only eyewitnesses
could have seen.

2552
02:25:02,720 --> 02:25:05,920
The story of Jared and the story
of Lehi have the same theme.

2553
02:25:06,360 --> 02:25:08,960
The familiar one of the
righteous man who leads his

2554
02:25:08,960 --> 02:25:10,960
people out of a doomed and
wicked world.

2555
02:25:11,280 --> 02:25:12,640
There is nothing original in
that.

2556
02:25:12,720 --> 02:25:17,200
It is also the story of Noah,
Enoch, Abraham and Moses, The

2557
02:25:17,200 --> 02:25:20,880
church in the wilderness, and
for that matter, the restored

2558
02:25:20,880 --> 02:25:24,400
church.
Wow.

2559
02:25:24,600 --> 02:25:27,880
So the idea that a church in the
wilderness or an exile, that's

2560
02:25:27,880 --> 02:25:31,240
its own motif that consistently
throughout scripture, it

2561
02:25:31,240 --> 02:25:32,720
absolutely is.
Yep.

2562
02:25:32,760 --> 02:25:35,840
Abraham leaving his family,
which is an apostate priesthood.

2563
02:25:36,520 --> 02:25:39,320
Terra in fact means priest.
Yep.

2564
02:25:42,320 --> 02:25:45,440
And he's a Vagabond and a
wanderer has to resort to

2565
02:25:45,640 --> 02:25:50,720
primitive temples.
Moses coming out of Egypt, Alma

2566
02:25:50,720 --> 02:25:53,760
the elder.
Alma the Elder come gathering

2567
02:25:53,760 --> 02:25:56,800
out of the city of Nephi to the
land of the waters of Mormon.

2568
02:25:57,920 --> 02:25:58,600
Yep.
Yep.

2569
02:25:58,680 --> 02:26:00,840
All the way through John the
Baptist.

2570
02:26:00,840 --> 02:26:02,280
Yep.
That's where I was going then.

2571
02:26:02,360 --> 02:26:05,080
Yeah.
Who was in line perhaps with

2572
02:26:05,080 --> 02:26:08,800
these Essenes and Qumran people?
He's Enochian, right?

2573
02:26:10,200 --> 02:26:12,800
You know, centric priesthood
people, Right.

2574
02:26:12,800 --> 02:26:14,440
John's focused.
On and in fact, associated,

2575
02:26:14,440 --> 02:26:18,320
there's some Essenes who put
John the Baptist at a higher

2576
02:26:18,320 --> 02:26:21,840
level.
Yeah, then, then, then even

2577
02:26:21,960 --> 02:26:24,320
Jesus right don't agree with.
That I don't either.

2578
02:26:24,320 --> 02:26:27,720
And so do the the Manicheans or
the Yeah, if it's not, then it's

2579
02:26:27,720 --> 02:26:29,320
the Mandans.
I can't remember which one.

2580
02:26:31,000 --> 02:26:36,800
Yeah, so interesting.
So we talked, we set the we set

2581
02:26:38,120 --> 02:26:40,480
the framework for the next
conversation already with the

2582
02:26:41,160 --> 02:26:46,600
the old world, new world motifs.
We talked about multiple use

2583
02:26:46,600 --> 02:26:48,640
worlds.
We've talked about on other

2584
02:26:48,640 --> 02:26:50,160
podcasts.
I don't know how much we need to

2585
02:26:50,160 --> 02:26:55,640
go back into that.
But Christ says in the book of

2586
02:26:55,640 --> 02:27:00,560
Luke chapter 17 verse 26, as it
was in the days of Noah, so

2587
02:27:00,560 --> 02:27:03,720
shall it be in the day of days
of the Son of Man.

2588
02:27:04,920 --> 02:27:07,720
Yeah.
Yeah, Joseph Smith took that and

2589
02:27:07,720 --> 02:27:11,160
said in the days of Noah, God
destroyed the world by a flood,

2590
02:27:11,480 --> 02:27:14,400
and he has promised to destroy
it by fire in the last days.

2591
02:27:14,400 --> 02:27:18,320
But before it should take place,
Elijah should first come and

2592
02:27:18,320 --> 02:27:20,200
turn the hearts of the fathers
to the children.

2593
02:27:22,760 --> 02:27:30,080
So why is that important?
Because Elijah's the Elijah

2594
02:27:30,080 --> 02:27:33,600
element in Malachi's promise is
the temple, right?

2595
02:27:33,600 --> 02:27:38,320
The temple theme is prevalent in
this renewal all the way through

2596
02:27:38,440 --> 02:27:41,960
and without that it couldn't be
renewed after this destruction.

2597
02:27:41,960 --> 02:27:44,040
So that makes complete sense
because you got this temple

2598
02:27:44,040 --> 02:27:48,240
theme right after the flood, the
New Jerusalem and in Eden after

2599
02:27:48,240 --> 02:27:51,520
that creation.
So without Elijah restoring the

2600
02:27:51,520 --> 02:27:56,360
temple, there's no new creation
after the destruction.

2601
02:27:56,960 --> 02:28:01,840
Interesting.
Hugh Nibley says in a book I

2602
02:28:01,840 --> 02:28:05,400
have called Ancient Documents in
the Pearl, Great Price, and it

2603
02:28:05,400 --> 02:28:07,680
also another article he wrote
called Treasures in the Heavens.

2604
02:28:08,880 --> 02:28:13,120
He talks about this Malachi's
promise, baptism of fire motif.

2605
02:28:13,760 --> 02:28:17,520
He says it at a new creation
there is a reshuffling of

2606
02:28:17,520 --> 02:28:19,400
elements.
Incidentally, that's a

2607
02:28:19,400 --> 02:28:21,760
quotation.
The last one that's from Ben

2608
02:28:21,760 --> 02:28:23,200
Siric.
That's a book I haven't read

2609
02:28:23,200 --> 02:28:25,280
that it's on my list.
It's one of the apocryphal

2610
02:28:25,480 --> 02:28:30,120
thanks.
He says it's one of the most old

2611
02:28:30,120 --> 02:28:33,160
and venerable and universally
accepted of all writings.

2612
02:28:33,680 --> 02:28:36,560
It belongs in the Bible.
It's in the Odes of Solomon.

2613
02:28:36,600 --> 02:28:41,120
It's in the Ginza manuscript,
it's in the Mandan Johannes

2614
02:28:41,120 --> 02:28:44,880
book, which means that's the
Mandan book of John, it's in the

2615
02:28:44,880 --> 02:28:48,120
Berlin Manichaean, it's in the
Pista Sophia, the oldest and

2616
02:28:48,120 --> 02:28:51,520
best of all the Coptic writings.
At a new creation there is a

2617
02:28:51,520 --> 02:28:54,000
reshuffling of elements.
That's what you would expect,

2618
02:28:54,360 --> 02:28:57,320
like the rearranging of notes in
the musical scale to make a new

2619
02:28:57,320 --> 02:29:00,440
composition.
It is even been suggested, as we

2620
02:29:00,440 --> 02:29:03,800
have noted, that old worlds may
be dismantled to supply stuff

2621
02:29:03,800 --> 02:29:06,520
for making, for the making of
newer and better ones.

2622
02:29:07,120 --> 02:29:09,480
That's the one where you get the
storm that's mixed up.

2623
02:29:11,480 --> 02:29:16,920
The Jewish and apocryphal
writers envisage a process by

2624
02:29:16,920 --> 02:29:19,760
which stuff, the stuff of old
worlds, is alternate,

2625
02:29:20,120 --> 02:29:23,840
alternately alternately
organized into new stars and

2626
02:29:23,840 --> 02:29:26,040
planets.
And when these have served their

2627
02:29:26,040 --> 02:29:31,560
time, they're scrapped and
decontaminated and reused in yet

2628
02:29:31,560 --> 02:29:35,360
more new worlds As we know
today, this world wouldn't exist

2629
02:29:35,360 --> 02:29:38,960
if a star hadn't exploded.
It had to explode after it had

2630
02:29:38,960 --> 02:29:41,920
gone through its life cycle and
done all the pretty things it

2631
02:29:41,920 --> 02:29:44,840
should do Bam.
And it was blown to smithereens.

2632
02:29:45,200 --> 02:29:47,880
That alone produced the heavy
elements that are necessary to

2633
02:29:47,880 --> 02:29:50,880
make a world like this.
So as one world completes its

2634
02:29:50,880 --> 02:29:53,960
cycle, the whole thing has to be
recycled again into a new one.

2635
02:29:53,960 --> 02:29:56,480
And then it goes through the
same process again.

2636
02:29:59,040 --> 02:30:01,160
Wow.
Yeah, who said that?

2637
02:30:01,200 --> 02:30:04,640
That was nibbly.
Nice.

2638
02:30:05,200 --> 02:30:08,200
And so, yeah, on on a big level,
you'd, yeah, you'd have the

2639
02:30:08,200 --> 02:30:11,240
cosmic destruction of the
planetary body that can be

2640
02:30:11,240 --> 02:30:13,720
reused.
But I also think that without

2641
02:30:13,720 --> 02:30:16,320
the body being destroyed, you
can have I yeah.

2642
02:30:16,440 --> 02:30:20,000
Cataclysms.
You have catastrophes that leave

2643
02:30:20,000 --> 02:30:23,120
the Earth in a state that is
described in the Book of Abraham

2644
02:30:23,840 --> 02:30:27,480
as desolate and without
inhabitant Right.

2645
02:30:27,600 --> 02:30:29,000
And where a new atom has to
come.

2646
02:30:29,560 --> 02:30:30,760
Yep.
Yeah.

2647
02:30:30,760 --> 02:30:36,120
Absolutely.
And so we're told.

2648
02:30:38,000 --> 02:30:40,920
I, I, I know I've talked about
this before on the podcast, but

2649
02:30:40,920 --> 02:30:44,400
I can't emphasize it enough.
Without the priesthood restored

2650
02:30:44,400 --> 02:30:48,840
by Elijah to bind us to the
promises made to the Fathers,

2651
02:30:48,840 --> 02:30:51,520
which is everything that Joseph
Smith restored, I read doctrine

2652
02:30:52,160 --> 02:30:58,760
restored, we would be left
without root or branch.

2653
02:30:59,240 --> 02:31:00,920
Yeah, after that baptism of
fire.

2654
02:31:01,080 --> 02:31:04,200
Now the church thinks that
that's just their safest houses

2655
02:31:04,200 --> 02:31:07,600
because we have the temples, we
follow the prophet, and all the

2656
02:31:07,600 --> 02:31:10,280
work is being done.
But if you've changed the

2657
02:31:10,280 --> 02:31:12,160
ordinances, none of that's
efficacious.

2658
02:31:12,560 --> 02:31:17,440
Right.
And so that puts Malachi's

2659
02:31:17,640 --> 02:31:23,160
promise or prophecy in a hugely
more elevated stance in my book

2660
02:31:24,000 --> 02:31:27,000
than is typically, you know,
taken by the average person, I

2661
02:31:27,000 --> 02:31:28,080
think.
Right.

2662
02:31:28,080 --> 02:31:34,560
And but truly, without
fulfilling the conditions, we're

2663
02:31:34,560 --> 02:31:37,800
left as Malachi says it would
be.

2664
02:31:37,800 --> 02:31:39,920
The world would be utterly
wasted at the coming of the

2665
02:31:39,920 --> 02:31:42,280
Lord.
So I'm going to say something

2666
02:31:42,280 --> 02:31:45,920
else here with the, with the,
you know, spirit of Elijah.

2667
02:31:48,560 --> 02:31:53,080
And I, I want to say that that
as a general rule, right?

2668
02:31:53,080 --> 02:31:57,640
Obviously there are people who
maybe have been adopted, right,

2669
02:31:57,640 --> 02:32:01,200
or and can't really find many of
their, their own blood relatives

2670
02:32:01,200 --> 02:32:04,920
or whatever.
But I think what else could be

2671
02:32:04,920 --> 02:32:10,560
missing from the mainstream
model is this idea of going and

2672
02:32:10,560 --> 02:32:15,960
getting your own names, doing
the research, extracting those

2673
02:32:15,960 --> 02:32:20,320
names, getting them ready.
Because something does happen in

2674
02:32:20,320 --> 02:32:26,920
that process when you just show
up, grab a name, go to work.

2675
02:32:27,000 --> 02:32:28,920
I'm not sure that's it's.
Awful.

2676
02:32:29,040 --> 02:32:34,240
I'm not sure that's fulfilling,
fulfilling that promise of

2677
02:32:34,240 --> 02:32:35,480
Elijah.
Now I get it.

2678
02:32:35,600 --> 02:32:39,760
There are there are some people
whose whose family records are

2679
02:32:39,760 --> 02:32:42,640
just trashed, right?
I get it.

2680
02:32:43,080 --> 02:32:47,760
And I'm sure the Lord wants you
there regardless, right?

2681
02:32:47,760 --> 02:32:49,560
Come grab a name from somebody
else.

2682
02:32:50,960 --> 02:32:53,560
But in today's day and age, I
think that's getting less and

2683
02:32:53,560 --> 02:32:56,120
less frequent.
I mean, look, I got some

2684
02:32:56,120 --> 02:32:57,840
complicated family history,
Sure.

2685
02:32:57,960 --> 02:33:02,720
And just recently, things were
the, IT seems to be a wall that

2686
02:33:02,720 --> 02:33:06,080
was blown up and, you know.
The path is more clear.

2687
02:33:06,080 --> 02:33:12,160
Yeah, it's more clear now and
so, but, but don't miss out on

2688
02:33:12,160 --> 02:33:14,800
that part, right?
I mean, that's an important part

2689
02:33:14,800 --> 02:33:17,360
that that I feel like gets
glossed over sometimes.

2690
02:33:17,920 --> 02:33:23,000
It is, and so my bigger issue is
just the fact that covenants and

2691
02:33:23,000 --> 02:33:24,920
ordinances have changed.
Me too.

2692
02:33:25,880 --> 02:33:28,240
And it seems that that's a super
big problem in the grand

2693
02:33:28,240 --> 02:33:31,640
historical overview.
Seems to be the same thing over

2694
02:33:31,640 --> 02:33:33,320
and over.
Seems to be the same thing over

2695
02:33:33,320 --> 02:33:41,680
and over again, a focus on the
promises originally made to us

2696
02:33:41,840 --> 02:33:46,680
on this for our sake, on behalf
of who our fathers were.

2697
02:33:47,760 --> 02:33:51,800
To me, it's less about doing all
the work for your ancestors as

2698
02:33:51,800 --> 02:33:56,120
much as obtain the blessings of
the faithful fathers like

2699
02:33:56,120 --> 02:33:59,600
Abraham for you and for your
children.

2700
02:34:00,080 --> 02:34:02,920
And then you'll be grafted in.
And that does take more

2701
02:34:02,920 --> 02:34:06,000
ordinances.
That is largely more a mystery

2702
02:34:06,360 --> 02:34:08,560
in Mormonism as far as the law
of adoption goes.

2703
02:34:09,360 --> 02:34:12,200
But there is that option.
It's not like you're damned if

2704
02:34:12,200 --> 02:34:13,480
you don't know where you come
from.

2705
02:34:15,040 --> 02:34:16,840
There are ordinances to take
care of you.

2706
02:34:17,280 --> 02:34:22,360
You will be, You can be fully
adopted into the total royal

2707
02:34:22,360 --> 02:34:24,400
family of the gods.
Absolutely.

2708
02:34:24,600 --> 02:34:27,200
And the gods are looking over
us.

2709
02:34:27,200 --> 02:34:31,640
We, we we put this in terms.
We don't look at it eternally

2710
02:34:31,640 --> 02:34:33,120
enough.
I don't think, you know, it's

2711
02:34:33,120 --> 02:34:34,720
just like, yeah, this is God's
world.

2712
02:34:35,800 --> 02:34:41,200
But when you take it more in a
temple view, especially

2713
02:34:41,200 --> 02:34:44,080
concerning genealogy and
realizing that God didn't just

2714
02:34:44,080 --> 02:34:48,040
pop out of nowhere, right?
He's got a genealogy and you are

2715
02:34:48,040 --> 02:34:55,200
the inheritor of that.
And that you can't help but

2716
02:34:55,560 --> 02:34:59,120
wonder when you start putting
things in perspective, that's

2717
02:34:59,120 --> 02:35:01,480
just not Heavenly Father and
Heavenly Mother looking after

2718
02:35:01,480 --> 02:35:05,200
us.
It's all the gods in our line

2719
02:35:05,960 --> 02:35:10,240
who look at us as the
culmination of all the efforts

2720
02:35:10,240 --> 02:35:14,240
that they have had so far.
And they want us not only to

2721
02:35:14,240 --> 02:35:18,720
come back into their presence,
but they want us to increase the

2722
02:35:19,080 --> 02:35:25,480
dominion, the power, the glory,
extend it, and because without

2723
02:35:25,480 --> 02:35:28,440
us, their increase would be
jeopardized.

2724
02:35:31,320 --> 02:35:32,920
That's a different perspective,
isn't it?

2725
02:35:33,280 --> 02:35:35,000
So they are rooting.
US.

2726
02:35:35,160 --> 02:35:38,560
Yeah, yeah, we just got to put
in the work.

2727
02:35:38,720 --> 02:35:41,120
So if you can't and it's just
hard even for me because I'm

2728
02:35:41,120 --> 02:35:43,600
preaching this, but like it's
hard for me to even imagine this

2729
02:35:43,600 --> 02:35:45,840
because honestly, I feel like
the devil's winning a lot of the

2730
02:35:45,840 --> 02:35:48,960
time lately, right?
But when you if we got one, I

2731
02:35:48,960 --> 02:35:50,960
mean, depending on how you break
that down, maybe more is more

2732
02:35:50,960 --> 02:35:55,680
than one, but there's a lot more
Gods in heaven pull them for us

2733
02:35:55,680 --> 02:35:58,840
on our side of the corner.
That should be motivating.

2734
02:35:59,360 --> 02:36:01,080
It should be.
It should be it.

2735
02:36:01,080 --> 02:36:06,400
It's just for some reason we're
enticed by the other side.

2736
02:36:06,480 --> 02:36:10,520
Yeah, more frequently than what
we care to to admit.

2737
02:36:10,520 --> 02:36:12,360
And I think it's getting worse.
Right.

2738
02:36:14,360 --> 02:36:15,440
Yeah.
No.

2739
02:36:16,080 --> 02:36:17,480
Well, dude, that's beautiful
stuff.

2740
02:36:17,800 --> 02:36:21,080
Thank you.
So on to the next one on.

2741
02:36:21,520 --> 02:36:23,920
To the next one we'll do Tower
of Babel.

2742
02:36:24,200 --> 02:36:27,440
Awesome dude, I got some stuff
on that that'll be good.

2743
02:36:27,440 --> 02:36:29,000
I can't wait.
Cool, cool, cool, so all.

2744
02:36:29,360 --> 02:36:58,720
Right, Bye everybody.
The.