Episode #154: A Plan To Gather With Like Minded People W/Jeff Alldredge

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So I apologize I didn't release
an episode, but I was busy with

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some pretty cool stuff last
weekend.

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But we're back today so here we
go.

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We seem to be reaching a point
in our society that home

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ownership seems to be getting
further out of our reach,

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especially for our children.
Now coupled out with a desire to

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get out of society that seems to
be getting further and further

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away from reality and seems to
be slipping more and more into

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chaos, it seems like all of our
options are getting pretty slim.

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But what if it didn't have to be
that way?

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What if there was a way that we
could gather with like minded

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people, the weather, these
societal storms?

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Well today on this episode, Jeff
Aldridge joins me again to have

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a conversation about a plan that
he has to help people do just

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that.
As we break his idea down, it

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seems to have the ability to be
repeatable and scalable for

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almost all people despite their
skill sets or economic

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situations.
That's next on this episode of

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the Mormon Renegade podcast.
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You're listening to the Mormon
Renegade podcast.

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Jeff, my man.
So we were just talking about

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like shooting coyotes with a
high accuracy, or I should say

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high tech scopes.
Dude, we got to get together one

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day and just plunk away at
something, right?

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Just take the guns out.
Just plunk away.

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And by mentioning that very
thing, I'm guaranteed to at

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least get 800 haters coming out
of the woodwork.

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Because you do coyotes.
That, yeah, mainly that.

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Yep.
So and then some people just

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don't like other people owning
firearms.

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I've I've come to to understand
that more more keenly as I get

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older.
Yeah, it's true.

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It's really lots of differing
ideas throughout the country.

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I remember years ago I was
reading, I think it was Building

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the Kingdom of God.
Oh, who was the the gentleman in

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the church who wrote that?
You can help me out here.

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He was the one of the church
historians and it was about the

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United Order efforts in the
church.

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Was that Arrington?
Yep.

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That's exactly who it was.
And maybe building the city of

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God.
Anyway, see how much I remember?

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It's been 20 years, but in it I
found something very, a lot of

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interesting things.
But there was one part where

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there was a list, you know, when
the Saints got to Utah, the part

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of the problem in staying alive
was the predators.

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And there was this list of,
there was a reprint and a copy

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of a, of a flyer that that had
been put out where Brigham had

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decided to put a bounty out to
help the, you know, the Saints

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control the predators because
every attempt they had to have

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chickens or, or any kind of
livestock was so inhibited by

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everything from grizzly bears,
you know, down to weasels.

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And so he had a list and a price
tag, a bounty that he was

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willing personally to pay for
each one of these predators.

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And it started with grizzly bear
and went down to black bear and

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went down.
It went down the list.

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It went to all of the Hawks, the
eagles, the the bald eagles, the

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Golden Eagles, the owls.
If you brought him a predator,

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he'd pay you.
And, you know, he was wealthy

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and he figured this was a way to
help the people be able to

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survive in an area that was very
hostile.

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And, you know, but I read
through that, just chuckling to

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myself at how many people would
just absolutely lose it over

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the, you know, the head of the
church coming out with a hit

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list on anything that was
dangerous to to surviving in a

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in a harsh, harsh environment.
And.

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We, we are entirely too soft
today, right?

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Like, excuse me, as as a society
at large, we are way too soft.

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Like, and, and what's
interesting is that most of the

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people that raise a stink aren't
the ones out there in nature,

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right?
I mean, most of the people who

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raise a stink about harvesting
your own game, those sorts of

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things, they have this weird
idea that, like, things in the

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forest die of old age, right?
Like a, a, a, an elk just gets

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to be a certain age and he just
lays under a tree and he, you

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know, peacefully slips away to
the other side.

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And I'm like, you have not spent
enough time in the forest

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because in the wild, very, very,
very few things die of natural

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causes, right?
If an elk gets old, a deer gets

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old, they're just, they're just
food for the the predator,

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right?
I mean, that's all there is to

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it.
There is no peaceful slipping

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away.
I'm sure you can find some

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examples of that.
But by and large, man, you're

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when once you get old and
feeble, you know, out in the

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forest, you, you are done.
And I remember the first time I

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haunted the, the, you know, my
dad was like, OK, you show you

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show some respect and reverence
for the animal.

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You took a life.
And I remember it was hard,

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right?
Even as a young man who wasn't

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overly sensitive or anything
else, I remember thinking, well,

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this kind of feels crappy,
right?

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And I remember my dad saying,
that's a good feeling.

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You don't ever want to lose that
feeling.

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You know, you, you should be
proud that you're putting food

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on the table.
But at the same time, you need

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to understand that everything
comes with a cost.

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And and that feeling that you
have is a good marker of your

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humanity.
And most hunters I know are not

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bloodthirsty guys looking for
for a kill.

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They're just, you know, putting
food on the table.

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But it's such a large disconnect
now, Jeff, because, you know,

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you need meat, you go to the
store, right?

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I mean, that's really unusual in
human existence, right?

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The last, the last fifty, 100
years, it's been an aberration

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in human history.
This idea of you just go to the

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store and buy meat and produce
and whatever you need and take

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it back home.
Before that, we were, we were

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part of that ecosystem.
And now it seems like we have

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divorced ourselves from that.
And by doing so it, it's given

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people this, this false, this
false idea that it's always

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going to be around.
And, and this kind of ties into

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what we're going to talk about
tonight, right?

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I mean, nobody is thinking about
what you do when things get

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tough, right?
And we know as Mormons, we

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should all be very keen on some
things Joseph had said and

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Brigham had said about how bad
it's going to be.

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And, and I feel like people
aren't giving enough time to

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develop strategy on how to
survive those things.

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And so when you told me about
your idea, I was instantly

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intrigued.
And so that's what we're going

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to focus on here, just working
on a project that that I think

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may have some solutions there.
So Jeff, again, dude, it's

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always fun to talk.
I I appreciate you coming on to

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talk about it.
No worries.

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Biggest problem with you and I,
Dave, is we'll get sidetracked

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talking about other things.
So that's.

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OK, that's OK.
This is on on track you know.

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It, it's a, it's a very niche, a
a very niche set of people that

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I think can stand listening to
me because we'll start out

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talking about something and then
we'll go off on some tangents,

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but we always seem to make our
way back.

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It's like this is what happens
when you when you cross somebody

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riddled with ADD who's a Mormon
fundamentalist, you get that

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would be me.
Yes, yes, absolutely.

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So dude, tell me about your idea
here.

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Well, you know, boy, how do you
encapsulate it?

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And just an idea, you know, we
talked a little bit about some

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of these things, what month and
a half, two months ago.

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And we talked about, you know,
how to how to be prepared for

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what's coming.
And, and if you go and start

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reading some of the old, the
journal of discourses, some of

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the stuff that are apparent, you
know, the journals and even

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journals of your ancestors, if
you're Mormon and you have that

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kind of heritage, you know,
they, they had to carve, carve

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out a living and survive reliant
upon their own efforts and that

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of their neighbors.
You know, hopefully you wished

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you had neighbors because hard
to do by yourself.

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You know, it's very difficult.
And even those individuals who

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have tried to homestead in our
modern world, you find very it,

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it takes years and years to even
feel like you've made a dent.

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It's very, very difficult to
unplug.

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And probably 1991, my first wife
and I, we moved to Montana and

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we eventually had 10 acres that
we moved on to that was 5 miles

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out of town up at a serious 4
wheel drive road.

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And by serious 4 wheel drive, I
mean chain up all fours 3 months

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out of the year at least maybe 4
just to get home and, and it was

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quite the experience.
It was amazing and I had haunted

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a little bit as a kid.
Not much, you know, my dad took

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me out deer hunting a couple
times.

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But to move into that
environment as AI think I was 27

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when we moved there and we had
four kids and we moved into a

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teepee.
Nice.

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Years later, lived for the
summer.

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I thought I could build a cabin
in three months.

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You know, 'cause I, yeah, but it
was one of the greatest

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experiences we ended up living
there for from 9093 ish on the

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mountain till O1, you know, and
ended up building a off grid

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three story straw Bale house.
No power, no electricity, went

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off grid.
And I, I was determined to try

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to learn some of these skills
'cause, you know, my parents had

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raised me that in, in a lot of
the traditional Mormon ways that

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you're self-sufficient.
And I'd always wanted to have a

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cabin in the woods.
And, and my kids were young and

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we just had a great time.
We homeschooled, we, we had food

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storage in the house.
There was wood all around.

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We had heat, we had a Creek that
flowed, you know, 100 yards from

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the house that we got all of our
drinking water out of.

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I mean, it was, it was paradise.
And but you learn some harsh

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lessons, you know, and you learn
that one mistake, one

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miscalculation, you know, or
even if I'd have gotten injured,

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I've been able to get firewood.
And if I didn't have enough put

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up, well now, now the family
could literally freeze to death,

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you know, and you may not be
able to get off the mountain to

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find somebody.
And so I think that it was, it

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was a wonderful, powerful
experience.

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I could probably, we could spend
the whole 2 hours just talking

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about the, the beauty of
unplugging.

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But it was during that time that
I started reading and digging

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into some other works and on
self-sufficient living.

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00:13:06,880 --> 00:13:10,920
I realized that in Montana where
we were at, we lived at 6000

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feet elevation and our growing
season was 30 days and that

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played out almost every year.
We had a freeze almost every

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month.
And so I, there was no way to

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grow a garden.
So, you know, I had to focus my

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time on raising some animals,
which of course brought in the

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bears.
You know, I ended up having to

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shoot a bear once.
And, and it wasn't just

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interested in, you know, the,
the rabbits across the, the, the

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way that I was raising, it was
interested in my dogs and their

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dog food.
And then it was interested in

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the house.
So you realize it's just not a

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stretch and you better be
prepared.

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And, and so we had all these
experiences and my kids were

223
00:13:55,480 --> 00:13:58,760
young and, and it was my, my
wife was amazing.

224
00:13:58,760 --> 00:14:01,200
Oh my gosh.
She would one time the neighbors

225
00:14:01,200 --> 00:14:05,680
called her while I was out
getting logs and, and the

226
00:14:05,680 --> 00:14:09,160
neighbor, the, the neighbor lady
was home alone.

227
00:14:09,160 --> 00:14:12,240
Her husband was off working as
well in the woods and a black

228
00:14:12,240 --> 00:14:14,400
beard come up and was trying to
get in their house.

229
00:14:14,920 --> 00:14:19,120
And you know, she ran out the
back door and came down and our

230
00:14:19,120 --> 00:14:23,360
her boy and my boy were playing
in their little bus and she came

231
00:14:23,360 --> 00:14:27,280
down to about 1/2 mile to our
house and was just beside

232
00:14:27,280 --> 00:14:28,680
herself.
Oh yeah.

233
00:14:29,520 --> 00:14:31,520
And my wife didn't know what to
do.

234
00:14:31,520 --> 00:14:34,440
And she's a city girl from
Milwaukee, but man, was she a

235
00:14:34,440 --> 00:14:37,160
trooper.
You know, she strapped on my SKS

236
00:14:37,800 --> 00:14:40,840
and she put on a couple
bandoleros of, you know, had all

237
00:14:40,840 --> 00:14:46,160
these AM oaks sticking out.
And she'd been making bread in

238
00:14:46,160 --> 00:14:49,240
our cook stove and a little camp
cook stove.

239
00:14:49,240 --> 00:14:51,400
And so she didn't want the bear
to come down and get the bread.

240
00:14:51,720 --> 00:14:55,120
So she was tying the bread and
loafs to her belt and she went

241
00:14:55,120 --> 00:14:59,240
walking up there to try to try
to kill that bear and to get our

242
00:14:59,240 --> 00:15:01,160
son.
And I thought, now there's a

243
00:15:01,160 --> 00:15:03,760
woman you know.
See, you fell in love all over

244
00:15:03,760 --> 00:15:09,360
again in that moment, right?
There's a woman and I came home

245
00:15:09,360 --> 00:15:12,440
to that story and you know, told
it many, many times over and,

246
00:15:13,040 --> 00:15:15,920
and the kids grew up with those
types of experiences, things

247
00:15:15,920 --> 00:15:20,840
that most kids have no clue.
And yet people, if you, if you

248
00:15:20,840 --> 00:15:25,040
subject yourself to that
lifestyle, it, it will present

249
00:15:25,040 --> 00:15:29,480
opportunities like that to make
you a stronger, better, more

250
00:15:29,480 --> 00:15:33,040
independent person, able to
think in a crisis, able to

251
00:15:33,560 --> 00:15:38,440
respond.
And anyway, it was it was quite

252
00:15:38,440 --> 00:15:40,440
the experience.
Let me ask you that.

253
00:15:40,440 --> 00:15:42,680
Let me ask you something real
quick before we move on.

254
00:15:43,240 --> 00:15:46,000
Yeah.
What, what were just a couple of

255
00:15:46,000 --> 00:15:48,520
the big lessons you took from
that because it sounds like that

256
00:15:48,520 --> 00:15:52,840
was kind of your first foray
into kind of going off grid,

257
00:15:52,840 --> 00:15:54,960
right?
What what were a couple of the

258
00:15:54,960 --> 00:16:00,320
big takeaways after that?
Sounds like about 778 years up

259
00:16:00,320 --> 00:16:02,840
there it.
Was about an 8 year period of

260
00:16:02,840 --> 00:16:05,760
time.
And weirdly enough, you know, we

261
00:16:05,760 --> 00:16:09,000
had, we had no bills.
So the beauty of the lifestyle,

262
00:16:09,000 --> 00:16:11,960
some of the things I, I look
back on it as one of the most

263
00:16:12,000 --> 00:16:16,160
peaceful and stress free times
of my life.

264
00:16:16,440 --> 00:16:19,800
I mean, there was a different
kind of stress to survive, but I

265
00:16:19,800 --> 00:16:23,040
was not stressed about the
mortgage because the land was so

266
00:16:23,040 --> 00:16:25,480
cheap back then.
There was we got those 10 acres

267
00:16:26,160 --> 00:16:28,280
for $6000 for 10 acres.
Wow.

268
00:16:29,080 --> 00:16:31,920
With the Creek flowing through
it and, you know, all this kind

269
00:16:31,920 --> 00:16:33,440
of stuff.
Yeah.

270
00:16:33,960 --> 00:16:40,720
And, and we had, you know, and
so there, there wasn't a

271
00:16:40,720 --> 00:16:42,960
mortgage and I built the house
over a period of several years

272
00:16:42,960 --> 00:16:45,240
and we moved into it as soon as
it was enclosed.

273
00:16:45,240 --> 00:16:50,520
And I, I, I started building
furniture in my basement, rustic

274
00:16:50,520 --> 00:16:54,480
furniture, but I didn't have
any, any bills.

275
00:16:54,840 --> 00:16:57,880
We didn't have electricity, so
no power bill.

276
00:16:58,400 --> 00:17:00,840
We didn't have a telephone, No
telephone bill.

277
00:17:01,000 --> 00:17:04,240
Got water out of the Creek, no
water, no water bill.

278
00:17:04,680 --> 00:17:09,240
You know, everything that we
got, we relied upon the Lord and

279
00:17:09,319 --> 00:17:10,960
the earth and the things around
us.

280
00:17:11,760 --> 00:17:15,720
There's plenty of dead standing.
So we really only needed maybe

281
00:17:17,599 --> 00:17:19,359
to survive four or five hundred
a month.

282
00:17:19,880 --> 00:17:22,200
Wow.
And so I look back on, you know,

283
00:17:22,200 --> 00:17:24,839
the only the records that I kept
during that time because I

284
00:17:24,839 --> 00:17:27,319
unplugged, you know, it was just
my tithing records.

285
00:17:27,319 --> 00:17:30,680
And so, you know, I had my, my
Bishop came up to me one time

286
00:17:30,680 --> 00:17:32,840
and he just couldn't believe he
said, Jeff, you're, you've only

287
00:17:32,840 --> 00:17:35,920
put down here that, that you,
you only paid 600 bucks last

288
00:17:35,920 --> 00:17:37,760
year in tithing.
I said, that's about right.

289
00:17:38,400 --> 00:17:43,400
He says, well, I declare jizz a
partial tithe pair because that

290
00:17:43,400 --> 00:17:44,880
can't be right.
And I said, no, that's about

291
00:17:44,880 --> 00:17:47,120
right.
I think I made about 6000 last

292
00:17:47,120 --> 00:17:52,240
year, you know, I had a fan, but
by that time we had like 6 kids,

293
00:17:52,240 --> 00:17:55,320
you know, and, and it was just
the disk.

294
00:17:55,320 --> 00:17:59,280
I'm not trying to make it was
just you don't understand what

295
00:17:59,280 --> 00:18:02,520
you can do until you know, until
you experience something like

296
00:18:02,520 --> 00:18:05,320
that.
And I made enough, you know,

297
00:18:05,320 --> 00:18:10,880
once if things would get tight,
Cynthia'd say to me, you know,

298
00:18:11,120 --> 00:18:13,120
things are getting tight.
We're like we got 5 bucks or

299
00:18:13,120 --> 00:18:16,200
something, you know, but we had
food, we had water, we had

300
00:18:16,200 --> 00:18:18,640
shelter, we had warmth, we had
each other, we homeschooled.

301
00:18:18,680 --> 00:18:21,120
I mean, there was, you know, it
was not a big deal.

302
00:18:21,520 --> 00:18:24,640
The worst thing that would
happen is we either had to walk

303
00:18:24,920 --> 00:18:28,920
into church if we didn't have
gas in the truck, you know, or

304
00:18:29,880 --> 00:18:31,480
didn't.
We went without fresh veggies

305
00:18:31,480 --> 00:18:33,960
for a week or two till I sold a
piece of furniture.

306
00:18:34,720 --> 00:18:41,400
And so if I sold 11 queen size
bed for 500 bucks, they paid a

307
00:18:41,400 --> 00:18:43,800
month's worth of my bills.
Wow.

308
00:18:44,440 --> 00:18:47,040
And and like when you had to
walk to church, how far was

309
00:18:47,040 --> 00:18:49,320
that?
Well, we never did have to

310
00:18:49,320 --> 00:18:52,880
because we always looked ahead
and made sure we had no gas and

311
00:18:53,200 --> 00:18:55,200
the truck to go to work.
But that was what would have

312
00:18:55,200 --> 00:18:58,920
gone had we not had cash, you
know, and when it puts you in a

313
00:18:58,920 --> 00:19:02,280
place where we had some really,
really amazing experiences.

314
00:19:02,280 --> 00:19:07,160
I mean, the way the Lord works
is, you know, to to teach you

315
00:19:07,160 --> 00:19:09,880
the things you want to know is,
is he gives you an experience

316
00:19:09,880 --> 00:19:11,480
that kind of teaches you those
things.

317
00:19:11,960 --> 00:19:16,800
And if you're asking for it, if
you're asking for revelation and

318
00:19:16,800 --> 00:19:21,280
understanding, the Lord will ask
you to do something once you go

319
00:19:21,280 --> 00:19:23,960
along that path enough to where
you trust what you're hearing.

320
00:19:24,880 --> 00:19:27,280
You know, when you pray and you
write down or whatever you do

321
00:19:27,280 --> 00:19:29,720
that if you hear the voice of
the Spirit tell you to do

322
00:19:29,720 --> 00:19:33,360
something and then you do it.
And then there's usually a

323
00:19:33,360 --> 00:19:35,280
lesson.
Either you, you'll witness

324
00:19:35,280 --> 00:19:37,760
something or you'll experience
something, or we'll put you in a

325
00:19:37,760 --> 00:19:40,680
place where you then have to ask
again, what do I do here?

326
00:19:41,680 --> 00:19:47,160
And there was one time where we
were, you know, the wife came

327
00:19:47,160 --> 00:19:49,440
and said it's getting a little
tight.

328
00:19:50,040 --> 00:19:52,600
I think literally, I think we
got 5 bucks Jeff.

329
00:19:53,880 --> 00:19:57,880
And we didn't never, we didn't
ever sweat it terribly because

330
00:19:58,240 --> 00:20:00,240
lifestyle allowed for that
slush.

331
00:20:00,240 --> 00:20:04,640
You know, we had two years worth
of food in the basement and, and

332
00:20:04,960 --> 00:20:06,600
the ability to survive for a
long time.

333
00:20:06,600 --> 00:20:10,320
So it wasn't, it just meant we
went without cash for a period

334
00:20:10,320 --> 00:20:14,800
of time.
And anyway, and I said, well,

335
00:20:15,600 --> 00:20:17,800
I've been really, really working
hard on trying to.

336
00:20:18,680 --> 00:20:19,920
Understand the voice of the
Spirit.

337
00:20:20,080 --> 00:20:23,680
Learn how to listen to the Holy
Ghost versus myself, versus

338
00:20:23,920 --> 00:20:28,520
other influences.
And so I said, I'll go out and

339
00:20:28,720 --> 00:20:31,160
I'll pray about it.
I'll ask.

340
00:20:31,400 --> 00:20:34,040
And so, and it was one of those
things where I was like, OK,

341
00:20:34,040 --> 00:20:35,400
this will be interesting, you
know?

342
00:20:35,400 --> 00:20:38,640
So I went and went outside and
found the spot where I like to

343
00:20:38,640 --> 00:20:40,720
kind of be alone, took my
journal.

344
00:20:40,720 --> 00:20:42,640
Because if you write things
down, the Lord's more apt to

345
00:20:42,640 --> 00:20:45,560
kind of give you something.
If you come here to write it

346
00:20:45,560 --> 00:20:46,880
down.
It's just a principle.

347
00:20:47,600 --> 00:20:51,040
So writing, you know, praying
and having a journal close by is

348
00:20:51,040 --> 00:20:53,880
something that has really been
beneficial to me in the past of

349
00:20:54,760 --> 00:20:56,640
showing the Lord that I'm
serious and I would like to

350
00:20:57,040 --> 00:20:59,200
listen and hear and write what
you tell me.

351
00:21:00,440 --> 00:21:04,000
So anyway, I was in the middle
of that process and I asked, you

352
00:21:04,000 --> 00:21:09,640
know, Father, we got 5 bucks and
you know, what do you want?

353
00:21:09,640 --> 00:21:12,000
Where, where should I go for
work is, is really the question

354
00:21:12,000 --> 00:21:14,560
that I asked, where should I go?
Where should I go to find

355
00:21:14,840 --> 00:21:18,160
somebody to buy another bed or,
or work for a week for somebody,

356
00:21:18,160 --> 00:21:23,120
whatever.
And and I, the prompting that I

357
00:21:23,160 --> 00:21:29,160
felt and that I wrote down was
go do nothing.

358
00:21:29,680 --> 00:21:33,200
It will come to you.
And I, I almost chuckled because

359
00:21:33,200 --> 00:21:36,760
it was not something that would
be something I would say I'm

360
00:21:36,760 --> 00:21:39,400
more of a proactive.
I got to go out and find some

361
00:21:39,400 --> 00:21:40,960
work today to provide for my
family.

362
00:21:41,560 --> 00:21:43,360
So I chuckled and I wrote down
do nothing.

363
00:21:43,360 --> 00:21:47,040
It will come to you.
And I chuckled and yeah, thank

364
00:21:47,040 --> 00:21:49,720
you, Lord.
And OK, so I went back in and I

365
00:21:49,720 --> 00:21:52,000
walked in and my wife knew that
I'd been out praying about it.

366
00:21:52,000 --> 00:21:57,360
And she's like, well, I'm like
Lord said, do nothing, It'll

367
00:21:57,360 --> 00:22:00,000
come to us.
And I just went downstairs,

368
00:22:00,000 --> 00:22:02,760
started working on the House or
whatever I was doing.

369
00:22:03,520 --> 00:22:06,520
And to me, it was almost
humorous because I had a chance

370
00:22:06,520 --> 00:22:10,280
now to listen, you know, and to
see what would come up.

371
00:22:10,600 --> 00:22:15,240
Well, we had just barely had a
phone line this we'd been up on

372
00:22:15,240 --> 00:22:18,320
the mountain for several years
at this point and and had gone

373
00:22:18,320 --> 00:22:20,440
for probably four years without
phone.

374
00:22:21,120 --> 00:22:23,960
And then the world decided that
we needed a phone.

375
00:22:23,960 --> 00:22:26,520
And so they put a line up our
goals to two people, you know,

376
00:22:26,560 --> 00:22:30,840
probably got 50 grand to run a
line for two for two families.

377
00:22:31,680 --> 00:22:37,240
And anyway, and we'd had a phone
for maybe a week and all of a

378
00:22:37,240 --> 00:22:43,880
sudden the phone rang and, and I
picked it up and the lady said,

379
00:22:44,240 --> 00:22:46,280
is this guy that built that
straw Bale house?

380
00:22:46,280 --> 00:22:49,800
And I said, yeah, yeah, yes, it
is.

381
00:22:49,800 --> 00:22:51,560
How did you, how did you get my
phone number?

382
00:22:51,560 --> 00:22:55,520
Well, somebody here over in
Anaconda, 30 miles away, said,

383
00:22:55,800 --> 00:22:58,760
oh, here's a, here's this guy's
number that has a straw Bale

384
00:22:58,760 --> 00:23:00,720
house.
And she said, I'm building a,

385
00:23:01,960 --> 00:23:06,040
I'm building a dude ranch over
here that's going to be called

386
00:23:06,040 --> 00:23:11,920
the 1880s ranch in Anaconda.
And I'm trying to find examples

387
00:23:11,920 --> 00:23:16,600
of period historic building.
And I understand straw Bale

388
00:23:16,600 --> 00:23:18,720
houses started in about the
1880s.

389
00:23:18,720 --> 00:23:20,520
Is that correct?
And I said, yeah, they started

390
00:23:20,560 --> 00:23:22,800
as soon as they had bailing
machines, they started making

391
00:23:23,040 --> 00:23:26,040
houses out of it.
She said, can I come over and

392
00:23:26,040 --> 00:23:27,520
see it?
I really want to see your house.

393
00:23:27,520 --> 00:23:30,120
And I said, that'd be great.
Love to have you come over and

394
00:23:30,120 --> 00:23:32,840
see my house.
So we made an arrangement and

395
00:23:32,840 --> 00:23:35,480
and it was so weird enough at
the moment that I was going

396
00:23:36,400 --> 00:23:38,840
there's something weird here.
Right.

397
00:23:39,240 --> 00:23:41,360
'Cause I hadn't given her a
week, barely had a phone for a

398
00:23:41,360 --> 00:23:43,560
week.
Yeah.

399
00:23:44,360 --> 00:23:48,480
And so anyway, she showed up
with her manager a few days

400
00:23:48,480 --> 00:23:52,040
later and she was just
enthralled and walked around and

401
00:23:52,040 --> 00:23:53,760
it was a three story straw Bale
house.

402
00:23:54,120 --> 00:23:57,240
You know, it was this 3000
square foot monstrosity that was

403
00:23:57,240 --> 00:24:01,320
half done and, you know, a bunch
of kids running around,

404
00:24:01,320 --> 00:24:03,240
homeschooled little kids and
stuff.

405
00:24:03,240 --> 00:24:07,400
And, and after about 10 minutes
of her interviewing the kids and

406
00:24:07,400 --> 00:24:11,160
looking around, she, she's like,
you homeschool your kids and

407
00:24:11,160 --> 00:24:14,160
we're like, yeah.
And she says, wow, you wouldn't

408
00:24:14,160 --> 00:24:17,920
even know.
Kind of like she was expecting

409
00:24:17,920 --> 00:24:20,400
these little kids in the corner
and gnawing on a piece of rain

410
00:24:21,320 --> 00:24:24,600
or something.
But anyway, and she was just

411
00:24:24,600 --> 00:24:26,240
delightful.
And we chatted and after a while

412
00:24:26,240 --> 00:24:28,480
she says, I can't use houses
like this because you can't even

413
00:24:28,480 --> 00:24:31,440
hardly tell.
It's not a modern home.

414
00:24:31,440 --> 00:24:34,000
Once you get stucco, there's no
way to tell.

415
00:24:34,000 --> 00:24:36,960
But she just kept, she stayed
and she asked and she wanted to

416
00:24:36,960 --> 00:24:40,600
know.
And, and then at some point she

417
00:24:40,600 --> 00:24:42,880
said, what do you do here?
How do you make a living?

418
00:24:43,800 --> 00:24:48,000
I said, I make furniture.
You make furniture.

419
00:24:48,760 --> 00:24:54,240
Oh my goodness.
I need like 8 or 10 cabins worth

420
00:24:54,240 --> 00:24:57,120
of furniture.
Show me some pictures.

421
00:24:57,480 --> 00:25:00,080
So I went and got some, my
little portfolio and showed her

422
00:25:00,080 --> 00:25:02,920
some of the pictures of the beds
and the benches and the things

423
00:25:02,920 --> 00:25:05,680
that I made in my basement.
And she said I I'll order come

424
00:25:05,680 --> 00:25:08,480
over to my ranch tomorrow.
I will.

425
00:25:08,640 --> 00:25:12,400
I've got several pieces that I
need to order right now and just

426
00:25:12,400 --> 00:25:16,480
come on over.
And in the process of our

427
00:25:16,480 --> 00:25:18,960
conversation, she asked what my
religion was.

428
00:25:20,000 --> 00:25:23,320
When I told her, I said I'm
Mormon and at the time I was in

429
00:25:23,320 --> 00:25:26,160
the mainstream, you know, I was
the Emily in the branch.

430
00:25:26,280 --> 00:25:28,240
I was the crazy guy that lived
up on the mountain.

431
00:25:28,240 --> 00:25:33,760
But anyway, and, and she said I
wondered about that and, and she

432
00:25:33,760 --> 00:25:35,680
started asking me questions and
she left with the Book of

433
00:25:35,680 --> 00:25:39,440
Mormon, of course.
And, and she walked out the

434
00:25:39,440 --> 00:25:41,880
door.
She went to shut the door and

435
00:25:41,880 --> 00:25:47,160
she stopped it and she said, can
I, can I tell you something

436
00:25:47,160 --> 00:25:49,560
that's kind of weird?
And I said, I doubt it's weird.

437
00:25:49,920 --> 00:25:52,320
Go ahead and tell me.
And she said, I don't know how I

438
00:25:52,320 --> 00:25:56,640
got your phone number.
She said the guy I was supposed

439
00:25:56,640 --> 00:25:58,800
to call lives about 45 miles
away from here.

440
00:26:00,520 --> 00:26:02,080
And I don't know how I called
your number.

441
00:26:05,800 --> 00:26:08,520
I said, you know what?
It's not strange at all.

442
00:26:09,080 --> 00:26:12,680
But I'm glad you called.
However it happened, whoever

443
00:26:12,680 --> 00:26:15,280
connected that line, I'm glad
you came.

444
00:26:15,640 --> 00:26:18,040
I went over.
She gave me 6-8 months worth of

445
00:26:18,040 --> 00:26:22,920
work, you know, So wow, do
nothing.

446
00:26:22,920 --> 00:26:24,720
It will come to you.
If I'd have been off the

447
00:26:24,720 --> 00:26:27,000
mountain, if I'd have been off,
run around, if we'd have missed

448
00:26:27,000 --> 00:26:30,920
that one phone call, that was a
miracle in and of itself.

449
00:26:30,920 --> 00:26:33,320
I didn't give her the number.
Nobody gave her my number.

450
00:26:33,400 --> 00:26:39,560
It just called my house.
Pretty wild.

451
00:26:39,560 --> 00:26:42,520
So, you know, when you put
yourself out there in situations

452
00:26:42,520 --> 00:26:47,080
like that where you need because
our society, our society is

453
00:26:47,080 --> 00:26:51,240
really good at taking care of
our needs.

454
00:26:52,200 --> 00:26:54,240
Yeah, everything we could ever
want.

455
00:26:54,760 --> 00:26:57,280
So why ask the Lord to give us
anything?

456
00:26:57,880 --> 00:27:00,400
Why ask help?
Why ask for his sustenance?

457
00:27:00,400 --> 00:27:03,880
Why, you know, if all you got to
do is dial 911 an emergency,

458
00:27:03,880 --> 00:27:07,600
How, how often do we even need
to ask the Lord for help in

459
00:27:07,600 --> 00:27:12,600
serious matters really, you
know, and there's always

460
00:27:12,600 --> 00:27:15,760
somebody there.
And so one of the things, my,

461
00:27:15,920 --> 00:27:22,440
one of my biggest takeaways was
that part of the reason why the

462
00:27:22,440 --> 00:27:27,000
Lord asks us to live more simple
and what I would call the old

463
00:27:27,000 --> 00:27:29,640
paths, and I'll explain that in
a minute.

464
00:27:29,680 --> 00:27:35,160
But a part of why he's always
encouraged his people to live

465
00:27:35,200 --> 00:27:40,320
outside of what would be
considered, you know, a fancy

466
00:27:40,320 --> 00:27:42,560
city.
You know, there's very, very

467
00:27:42,600 --> 00:27:46,080
few, few scriptures out there
where the Lord has ever

468
00:27:46,080 --> 00:27:48,920
encouraged his people to go move
into a city, right?

469
00:27:49,560 --> 00:27:53,200
Is rare.
There will be instances

470
00:27:53,200 --> 00:27:57,120
obviously a city of Zion or such
where, but even that was

471
00:27:57,120 --> 00:28:00,160
designed as an agrarian pursuit,
right?

472
00:28:00,720 --> 00:28:06,880
Even the way Joseph lined that
out was enough acreage in town

473
00:28:06,880 --> 00:28:09,680
to grow a big garden and
Anchorage out of town to raise

474
00:28:09,680 --> 00:28:13,600
your own food.
No, that's that's exactly right.

475
00:28:13,600 --> 00:28:17,960
I saw being a surveyor I'm
always down for looking at old

476
00:28:17,960 --> 00:28:21,720
maps.
Right, like to me that's the

477
00:28:21,720 --> 00:28:25,160
perfect decor to to a house.
The girls don't think so, but I

478
00:28:25,160 --> 00:28:29,720
think old maps is the way to go.
So so subsequently, when I have

479
00:28:29,720 --> 00:28:32,520
an office, a Home Office, the
maps go in there.

480
00:28:32,880 --> 00:28:37,640
But so looking at the old plat
of Zion, Zion and you know what

481
00:28:37,640 --> 00:28:41,960
they were, what what Joseph had
had received was it was kind of

482
00:28:41,960 --> 00:28:44,920
a mix of the two, right?
Because all the agricultural

483
00:28:44,920 --> 00:28:49,760
stuff would be on kind of the
exterior of the bit massive city

484
00:28:49,760 --> 00:28:51,560
block.
And then on the inside would be

485
00:28:51,560 --> 00:28:53,000
your homes and that sort of
thing.

486
00:28:53,720 --> 00:28:56,320
And so it was kind of the best
of both worlds, but was still

487
00:28:56,320 --> 00:29:01,040
based in an agrarian kind of of
of lifestyle.

488
00:29:01,760 --> 00:29:04,960
And so you would just go out to
the fields on the outskirts of

489
00:29:04,960 --> 00:29:07,840
town to work and then come back
home.

490
00:29:07,840 --> 00:29:09,840
And so it was kind of the best
of both worlds.

491
00:29:09,840 --> 00:29:12,960
It was scalable.
It was designed to handle about

492
00:29:12,960 --> 00:29:15,880
10 to 15,000 people.
And then you'd start another

493
00:29:15,880 --> 00:29:19,080
steak and you would do it all
over again.

494
00:29:20,920 --> 00:29:27,600
So there's a, a real interesting
book out there called Surviving

495
00:29:27,600 --> 00:29:32,920
Off Off Grid, and it's written
by a guy who who self self

496
00:29:32,920 --> 00:29:35,240
admits that he's an underground
Baptist minister.

497
00:29:36,680 --> 00:29:38,280
Basically, he's an old
Anabaptist.

498
00:29:38,280 --> 00:29:40,360
He's he's basically Amish, but
not Amish.

499
00:29:40,600 --> 00:29:42,280
You know, he's one of plain
folk.

500
00:29:42,280 --> 00:29:44,880
There's several subdivisions
and, and I don't understand it,

501
00:29:44,880 --> 00:29:49,320
but he, his book is unbelievably
amazing about, you know, the,

502
00:29:49,400 --> 00:29:52,120
the, the Lord to his people
through the Bible.

503
00:29:52,160 --> 00:29:55,880
Basically, you know, that, that
he desires for us to live

504
00:29:55,880 --> 00:29:58,440
simply, he desires for us to
live off the land.

505
00:29:58,440 --> 00:30:02,440
He desires for us to have an
understanding of the ecology and

506
00:30:02,440 --> 00:30:05,880
to be good stewards and to raise
our own food for all of these

507
00:30:05,880 --> 00:30:08,120
reasons.
And whenever there has been

508
00:30:08,760 --> 00:30:12,280
societies that have crumbled
such as Rome and such as we're

509
00:30:12,280 --> 00:30:16,160
about ready to go through, it's
because we are not connected to

510
00:30:16,160 --> 00:30:20,880
our food source typically.
And so that very, that very

511
00:30:20,880 --> 00:30:23,960
huge, you know, humans, it takes
about 3 days before there's

512
00:30:23,960 --> 00:30:27,920
total anarchy and you get a big
city back then in a big city

513
00:30:27,920 --> 00:30:29,480
today.
And if you cut off their food

514
00:30:29,480 --> 00:30:32,640
supply for whatever reason, a
natural disaster, Look what's

515
00:30:32,640 --> 00:30:35,360
happened down, you know, in the
terrible, the looting that's

516
00:30:35,360 --> 00:30:40,120
going on even in North Carolina
and, and in Florida.

517
00:30:40,600 --> 00:30:47,760
And you know, if these if our
society was more what Joseph saw

518
00:30:47,880 --> 00:30:52,800
was more agrarian to begin with,
then every person would have the

519
00:30:52,800 --> 00:30:56,080
opportunity to be a
self-sufficient as they can,

520
00:30:56,680 --> 00:30:59,680
adding to the whole of a
community and the ability of the

521
00:30:59,680 --> 00:31:04,280
community to be a a healthy cell
of humanity, so to speak, a

522
00:31:04,280 --> 00:31:08,080
stake in Zion, if you will, that
take care of themselves and then

523
00:31:08,080 --> 00:31:11,320
their own.
I don't know what the numbers

524
00:31:11,320 --> 00:31:15,160
are that you know how many
people you have to have to take

525
00:31:15,160 --> 00:31:18,200
care of the rest of the people.
I don't know if that even makes

526
00:31:18,200 --> 00:31:20,160
sense.
But you know, we're plunging

527
00:31:20,160 --> 00:31:24,680
headlong from a capitalist
society into socialist communism

528
00:31:24,680 --> 00:31:29,440
right now, right, Right.
And at what point do the people

529
00:31:29,440 --> 00:31:34,040
who are willing to work, can
they not take care of a

530
00:31:34,040 --> 00:31:35,800
percentage of people who aren't
willing to work?

531
00:31:36,520 --> 00:31:38,760
You know, there's, there's a
certain ratio that I'm sure is

532
00:31:38,760 --> 00:31:42,440
eternal, right?
Where, where the people, as the

533
00:31:42,440 --> 00:31:46,880
Lord would say, those who are,
you know, the labor, you know,

534
00:31:48,040 --> 00:31:50,040
the person who doesn't labor
shouldn't eat the bread of the

535
00:31:50,040 --> 00:31:53,760
laborer kind of thing that
there's there's a balance of do

536
00:31:53,760 --> 00:31:56,160
your best, take care of each
other.

537
00:31:56,600 --> 00:31:59,480
And when that gets out of
balance, then the society is

538
00:31:59,480 --> 00:32:01,640
bound and headed down the road
of collapse.

539
00:32:02,480 --> 00:32:05,080
And and it's usually never not a
pretty collapse.

540
00:32:05,440 --> 00:32:09,360
No, when and you know you, we,
we read books like Atlas

541
00:32:09,360 --> 00:32:12,960
Shrugged, those sorts of things.
There does come a point where

542
00:32:13,800 --> 00:32:19,320
where the guys that that do
things just get sick of doing

543
00:32:19,320 --> 00:32:23,720
things for for free, right?
They get sick of doing it for

544
00:32:24,880 --> 00:32:27,800
and and oftentimes not just
doing it for free, but getting

545
00:32:27,800 --> 00:32:32,480
beat up while doing it, right,
And that they just quit doing

546
00:32:32,480 --> 00:32:34,720
it.
And and you know, that's a

547
00:32:34,720 --> 00:32:38,840
possibility total.
You know, look, we've we right

548
00:32:38,840 --> 00:32:42,080
now are a society that has
printed more money in the world

549
00:32:42,440 --> 00:32:46,680
ever, right?
I mean, we, we absolutely, if,

550
00:32:47,160 --> 00:32:50,200
if printing money was an Olympic
sport, we would just continue to

551
00:32:50,200 --> 00:32:51,880
gold medal over and over and
over.

552
00:32:52,480 --> 00:32:55,760
And it doesn't take a genius to
see that that's kind of not kind

553
00:32:55,760 --> 00:32:58,400
of very, you know,
unsustainable.

554
00:32:58,400 --> 00:33:00,160
It's going to come back to bite
you in the butt.

555
00:33:00,600 --> 00:33:03,840
And there's a host of things
that could do this.

556
00:33:04,320 --> 00:33:06,720
Back to what you were saying
about most families being three

557
00:33:06,720 --> 00:33:09,600
days away from starvation.
That's 100% true.

558
00:33:10,400 --> 00:33:14,760
I, I had a good friend for for
years who was an Emergency

559
00:33:14,760 --> 00:33:19,400
Management coordinator and he
told me that very same thing.

560
00:33:19,760 --> 00:33:23,440
He said, and, and he was
referring to New Orleans during

561
00:33:23,440 --> 00:33:26,400
Katrina.
And he said, and I'll never

562
00:33:26,400 --> 00:33:31,400
forget this, He said it took
exactly 3 days for the veil of

563
00:33:31,400 --> 00:33:34,400
civilization to be ripped off
entirely.

564
00:33:34,840 --> 00:33:37,160
He said it was back to roving
gangs.

565
00:33:37,640 --> 00:33:42,360
It was absolutely nasty.
We're just not equipped anymore.

566
00:33:42,920 --> 00:33:45,560
And you were talking about
growing your own food.

567
00:33:45,560 --> 00:33:48,600
And, and I think this is
something that's a bigger

568
00:33:48,600 --> 00:33:53,720
problem even than just being
disconnected from our food

569
00:33:53,720 --> 00:33:56,400
sources.
We live in a society today where

570
00:33:56,400 --> 00:33:59,960
there's not much that's real
anymore, right?

571
00:34:01,160 --> 00:34:04,160
You see, everyone's got their
nose buried in their phone.

572
00:34:04,160 --> 00:34:07,400
And look, I'm partially, you
know, I find myself getting

573
00:34:07,400 --> 00:34:09,159
sucked down those rabbit holes
once in a while.

574
00:34:09,159 --> 00:34:11,120
I'm a guy who does a podcast,
right?

575
00:34:11,639 --> 00:34:14,960
I like technology.
Having said that, though, you

576
00:34:14,960 --> 00:34:17,920
spend too much time in it.
It's not real, right?

577
00:34:17,920 --> 00:34:21,239
And, and I think we're in a
place now in society that we

578
00:34:21,239 --> 00:34:26,880
have essentially built, built
everything on things that aren't

579
00:34:26,880 --> 00:34:29,920
real, right?
Your friends on Facebook, unless

580
00:34:29,960 --> 00:34:33,120
you actually know them and spend
time on the phone talking to

581
00:34:33,120 --> 00:34:36,400
them, friend is only a title,
right?

582
00:34:36,400 --> 00:34:39,760
It's not what you think it is.
Those aren't real friends.

583
00:34:41,120 --> 00:34:44,360
You got guys and kids.
And, and when I say kids, I mean

584
00:34:44,360 --> 00:34:46,920
guys in their 20s who live
inside their computer, right?

585
00:34:46,920 --> 00:34:49,360
They play video games
constantly.

586
00:34:51,080 --> 00:34:54,600
Again, it's not real.
We've detached from anything

587
00:34:54,600 --> 00:34:56,520
that's real.
And in some weird way, I was

588
00:34:56,520 --> 00:34:58,360
thinking about this a few weeks
back.

589
00:34:58,920 --> 00:35:04,040
We built a Tower of Babel, kind
of a digital Tower of Babel,

590
00:35:04,080 --> 00:35:05,800
right?
Everything is done digitally.

591
00:35:05,800 --> 00:35:09,320
The transfer of money.
It's not really cash anymore.

592
00:35:09,320 --> 00:35:14,440
It's just credits we really have
detached from anything that's

593
00:35:14,440 --> 00:35:17,800
real and that's going to come
back to haunt us.

594
00:35:19,520 --> 00:35:21,680
I think you're very you're very
accurate in that.

595
00:35:21,680 --> 00:35:24,880
And you know, that's that's kind
of the message of that book I

596
00:35:24,880 --> 00:35:27,200
was telling you about.
He goes into the history of it

597
00:35:27,200 --> 00:35:29,720
and it's more of a book of
philosophy, not how to, you

598
00:35:29,720 --> 00:35:33,200
know, tons of how, how to
homestead books, but his book

599
00:35:33,200 --> 00:35:35,720
was philosophical and religious
in nature.

600
00:35:36,200 --> 00:35:39,920
And, and his whole thing was
that if we don't learn how that

601
00:35:39,920 --> 00:35:43,200
our, our civilization is headed
down the road of destruction.

602
00:35:43,200 --> 00:35:46,080
And we all, if we have a
religious bent to us, we we

603
00:35:46,080 --> 00:35:50,640
believe that.
So his idea and his thoughts

604
00:35:50,640 --> 00:35:57,760
were that that if we don't learn
to live not just off grid,

605
00:35:57,760 --> 00:36:03,200
because even the technology of
off grid is technology, he calls

606
00:36:03,200 --> 00:36:08,640
it surviving off off grid.
So start by going off grid and

607
00:36:08,640 --> 00:36:12,000
then go off off grid, you know,
and live like your ancestors,

608
00:36:12,000 --> 00:36:14,680
live like your great
grandparents used to live.

609
00:36:15,240 --> 00:36:17,800
And then you might have a chance
of surviving what's coming.

610
00:36:18,040 --> 00:36:23,400
And so as I experienced that
time in Montana with my kids and

611
00:36:23,400 --> 00:36:27,840
my wife, and I'm sorry, I'm
looking down here because I'm

612
00:36:27,840 --> 00:36:29,880
trying to send you a picture of
that house so you can

613
00:36:29,880 --> 00:36:30,800
understand.
No, you're good.

614
00:36:30,800 --> 00:36:32,840
I'm.
Going to send this over real

615
00:36:32,840 --> 00:36:39,360
quick while I talk, but anyway I
learned that one I I didn't need

616
00:36:39,720 --> 00:36:43,000
everything that I thought I
needed OK?

617
00:36:44,880 --> 00:36:49,680
That I could live on way less
that the Lord was willing to

618
00:36:49,680 --> 00:36:57,320
help me, and that I could be in
way more opportunities to learn

619
00:36:57,920 --> 00:37:01,160
by the Spirit and by following
the Lord.

620
00:37:01,160 --> 00:37:07,600
It required me to petition the
Lord routinely for my very

621
00:37:07,600 --> 00:37:09,560
survival.
For my very survival.

622
00:37:10,400 --> 00:37:13,920
And yet in the process of that,
I was freer and more at peace

623
00:37:13,920 --> 00:37:15,320
than I had ever been in my whole
life.

624
00:37:16,680 --> 00:37:20,200
I wasn't worried about 3 days
from now because I had plenty of

625
00:37:20,200 --> 00:37:23,120
food.
I wasn't worried about what was

626
00:37:23,120 --> 00:37:26,280
going on outside in the world
because it didn't affect me in

627
00:37:26,280 --> 00:37:30,480
any way unless they came up my
door and then I had things for

628
00:37:30,480 --> 00:37:33,720
that at least hopefully.
Right.

629
00:37:34,480 --> 00:37:36,040
I wasn't.
It was just, it was one of the

630
00:37:36,040 --> 00:37:41,320
most amazing experiences of
freedom that I've It was the

631
00:37:41,320 --> 00:37:47,320
most free I have ever felt
knowing that I could take care

632
00:37:47,320 --> 00:37:50,520
of myself and my family for the
most part.

633
00:37:51,000 --> 00:37:56,240
And you know, despite even the
intrusions of the powers that

634
00:37:56,240 --> 00:37:59,440
be, for once a year pay us taxes
or we'll take your land.

635
00:37:59,440 --> 00:38:02,400
You know, those kind of things
still wait upon me.

636
00:38:02,920 --> 00:38:05,160
But it was only one thing
instead of 10 things.

637
00:38:05,640 --> 00:38:08,680
Right.
And my kids and I learned, you

638
00:38:08,680 --> 00:38:12,800
know, I learned with my children
and with my wife how to, you

639
00:38:12,800 --> 00:38:16,200
know, how to be OK, how to sit
around and enjoy each other's

640
00:38:16,200 --> 00:38:19,560
company because that's what was
fun, what we want.

641
00:38:20,480 --> 00:38:23,840
If we felt impressed to jump in
the car for two weeks and roll,

642
00:38:23,840 --> 00:38:27,480
we could because we had no ties.
I wasn't worried about the kids

643
00:38:27,480 --> 00:38:28,880
schooling because we take it
with us.

644
00:38:29,280 --> 00:38:32,040
You know, I throw, I was an old
window cleaning.

645
00:38:32,040 --> 00:38:33,760
I had a window cleaning business
when we moved there.

646
00:38:33,760 --> 00:38:37,920
So I'd throw my window cleaning
bucket and all my squeegees and

647
00:38:37,920 --> 00:38:40,880
a ladder on top of the suburban
and we'd, we just roll and go

648
00:38:40,880 --> 00:38:43,320
visit family for two weeks.
And when I needed to come home,

649
00:38:43,320 --> 00:38:45,680
I'd go wash windows for two days
and get enough gas money to

650
00:38:45,680 --> 00:38:47,440
drive home.
Wow.

651
00:38:48,320 --> 00:38:51,320
It was, it was amazing.
I, I would do it again.

652
00:38:53,880 --> 00:38:56,600
You know, I, I look back on
those days with great fondness.

653
00:38:56,600 --> 00:38:59,640
I know a lot of my kids, all my
kids look back at them.

654
00:38:59,640 --> 00:39:02,480
Those that can remember it, that
weren't so young when we finally

655
00:39:02,480 --> 00:39:07,680
left, you know, but it was a, it
was an experience.

656
00:39:07,680 --> 00:39:10,840
So that was the biggest take
away was one where I learned how

657
00:39:10,840 --> 00:39:14,680
to trust in the spirit of the
Lord and I learned how to listen

658
00:39:14,680 --> 00:39:17,480
because that was that was where
everything came from.

659
00:39:17,480 --> 00:39:19,600
That was where my survivability
came from.

660
00:39:19,600 --> 00:39:24,800
And I think we need to learn
that we've replaced the Lord and

661
00:39:24,800 --> 00:39:28,240
our dependence upon him with
everything that the world

662
00:39:28,240 --> 00:39:35,160
provides our grocery stores to
our social events to, you know,

663
00:39:35,200 --> 00:39:38,200
even if things go bad, you know,
the the government will take

664
00:39:38,200 --> 00:39:40,480
care of you.
They just got you tell your dad,

665
00:39:41,080 --> 00:39:45,200
you know, so we don't turn to
the Lord like we should.

666
00:39:45,200 --> 00:39:48,920
And I think he, I think he
wished that we would live a

667
00:39:48,920 --> 00:39:51,480
different lifestyle.
We wished that we would stay.

668
00:39:51,840 --> 00:39:55,480
I think that's kind of
reminiscent of Isaiah and his,

669
00:39:55,840 --> 00:39:57,600
you know, his cry to come out of
her.

670
00:39:57,600 --> 00:39:59,800
Oh ye, my people that you've
been up for takers of her

671
00:39:59,800 --> 00:40:02,600
plagues.
Well, the plagues are just, I

672
00:40:02,640 --> 00:40:06,720
mean, there's tons of them, but
they are the opposite side of

673
00:40:06,720 --> 00:40:10,440
what God wants us to learn.
And so we end up eating food

674
00:40:10,440 --> 00:40:11,840
that we don't know where it
comes from.

675
00:40:12,080 --> 00:40:15,080
It's really wonderful and it
tastes good, but we end up

676
00:40:15,640 --> 00:40:18,360
coming to people that are
indulgent upon our senses

677
00:40:18,360 --> 00:40:20,800
instead of, you know, the
opposite.

678
00:40:21,720 --> 00:40:23,600
And so there's so many different
things.

679
00:40:23,600 --> 00:40:27,360
So I think that I think the Lord
would have us, if we would, to

680
00:40:27,360 --> 00:40:29,920
return to the what he calls the
old ways.

681
00:40:29,920 --> 00:40:33,560
There's an interesting scripture
in Jeremiah and I have to give

682
00:40:33,560 --> 00:40:37,160
credit to the guy who wrote that
book again because he quoted it

683
00:40:37,160 --> 00:40:39,360
and the first for the first time
I looked it up went that's

684
00:40:39,360 --> 00:40:42,360
amazing.
But in Jeremiah chapter 6, verse

685
00:40:42,360 --> 00:40:47,800
16, basically the people are
told by the Lord seek out and

686
00:40:47,800 --> 00:40:52,880
find for the the old paths,
wherein lies the good way, and

687
00:40:53,920 --> 00:40:55,640
therein you'll find I'm
butchering it.

688
00:40:55,640 --> 00:40:59,880
And therein you will find peace.
And the people said we will not.

689
00:41:00,920 --> 00:41:05,800
Right.
They just flat out said, see you

690
00:41:05,800 --> 00:41:08,880
later, you know, And that was
about, you know what?

691
00:41:09,080 --> 00:41:11,600
That was Jeremiah.
So a few years before they were

692
00:41:11,600 --> 00:41:16,600
destroyed by Babylon, killed
off, butchered, killed, you

693
00:41:16,600 --> 00:41:19,600
know, because they were all
conveniently stuck in one little

694
00:41:19,600 --> 00:41:22,840
city area, easy to conquer.
And all they had to do was sit

695
00:41:22,840 --> 00:41:24,200
there and not feed them for
three days.

696
00:41:24,200 --> 00:41:26,160
And they hate themselves, you
know, I don't know, but that's

697
00:41:26,160 --> 00:41:29,480
how most of the cities go down
as they just really need

698
00:41:29,480 --> 00:41:31,800
themselves.
Yep, absolutely.

699
00:41:32,360 --> 00:41:36,600
So let's talk about the, the
idea, the plan here you got,

700
00:41:36,600 --> 00:41:38,680
because I think that, you know,
we, I think we've done a good

701
00:41:38,680 --> 00:41:42,560
job of, of just encapsulating
what, what we're kind of up

702
00:41:42,560 --> 00:41:47,560
against as a society.
And let let's talk about the,

703
00:41:47,640 --> 00:41:49,920
you know, a solution you've come
up with.

704
00:41:50,920 --> 00:41:56,360
Yeah, well, it's ideas that have
come from, you know, 30 years

705
00:41:56,360 --> 00:41:58,560
of, of me experimenting with my
family.

706
00:41:59,360 --> 00:42:01,840
And I've, I've tried to do it by
myself and it's very, very

707
00:42:01,840 --> 00:42:03,920
difficult.
You know, it takes years and

708
00:42:03,920 --> 00:42:07,600
years to to accomplish.
And there's a lot of folks who

709
00:42:07,600 --> 00:42:11,400
can't, who are their job won't
let them move to the country.

710
00:42:11,960 --> 00:42:13,600
There's just a lot of folks who
are stuck.

711
00:42:14,200 --> 00:42:17,480
And so I've thought about this
for an awful long time of how

712
00:42:17,840 --> 00:42:23,120
communities and family groups
and individuals can, you know,

713
00:42:23,640 --> 00:42:27,320
get out of the city environment
and Start learning how to be

714
00:42:27,320 --> 00:42:32,920
self-sufficient.
And I don't think it can be done

715
00:42:32,920 --> 00:42:37,480
very easily as an individual,
It's hard to escape.

716
00:42:37,480 --> 00:42:41,920
Our society has created a trap,
you know, this, this modern

717
00:42:41,920 --> 00:42:47,360
society trap and, and, and we,
we spend so much money and we

718
00:42:47,360 --> 00:42:49,240
have to, to even to buy the
land.

719
00:42:49,280 --> 00:42:54,600
It's, it's almost so expensive
anywhere in the United States to

720
00:42:54,600 --> 00:42:58,360
even purchase land.
You can't get 10 acres for $6000

721
00:42:58,360 --> 00:43:01,360
anymore is there's just nowhere
that you could do that,

722
00:43:01,360 --> 00:43:06,000
especially with water.
But my thoughts have centered

723
00:43:06,000 --> 00:43:09,120
around more United Order type
efforts, people working

724
00:43:09,120 --> 00:43:14,120
together, family groups and how
could they accomplish, you know,

725
00:43:14,120 --> 00:43:16,920
finding a piece of ground that
would work with a a group of

726
00:43:16,920 --> 00:43:19,360
people who enjoy each other's
company.

727
00:43:20,720 --> 00:43:23,120
Usually that falls into a
religious group or a family

728
00:43:23,120 --> 00:43:27,120
group, people who care about
each other enough, but it

729
00:43:27,120 --> 00:43:29,440
doesn't have to be that way.
I think that individuals who

730
00:43:29,440 --> 00:43:32,800
believe certain principles, you
know, I think of a group of

731
00:43:32,800 --> 00:43:36,040
people that wanted to gather
together with other people who

732
00:43:36,040 --> 00:43:39,920
believed in freedom and property
rights and self-sufficient

733
00:43:39,920 --> 00:43:42,000
living and agrarianism and
wanted to try.

734
00:43:42,000 --> 00:43:44,760
I think that they could make a
good go of it, you know.

735
00:43:46,720 --> 00:43:50,640
But anyway, it would start with,
it would start with finding

736
00:43:51,080 --> 00:43:55,240
parcels of ground that would
hold 5 or 6 or 10 families or

737
00:43:55,240 --> 00:44:01,520
100 families or more and finding
that land, subdividing it.

738
00:44:01,680 --> 00:44:04,560
And, you know, I think there's
two, you know, two or three

739
00:44:04,560 --> 00:44:08,720
classes of individuals that
could help each other, Which is

740
00:44:08,720 --> 00:44:13,160
kind of the, the core idea of
coming together as people is

741
00:44:13,160 --> 00:44:16,880
that you might have some rich,
richer folks who have worked

742
00:44:16,880 --> 00:44:19,880
and, and had jobs that you have
given them, but they're stuck in

743
00:44:19,880 --> 00:44:21,680
the city because that's where
the jobs are.

744
00:44:22,160 --> 00:44:24,800
And then you might have it,
those who are more willing to

745
00:44:25,040 --> 00:44:28,280
help, but they might not have a
nickel to their name, you know,

746
00:44:28,520 --> 00:44:32,240
but they might have strength and
the willingness to to be of

747
00:44:32,240 --> 00:44:35,160
service and to go and build
something if they only knew how.

748
00:44:36,040 --> 00:44:39,520
And so I've kind of tried to put
some of these ideas together

749
00:44:39,520 --> 00:44:44,680
over the years.
And one of my thoughts are, as

750
00:44:44,680 --> 00:44:49,320
I've met a lot of people who
would love to get out of the

751
00:44:49,320 --> 00:44:51,760
city and probably have the money
to do so, but don't know how to

752
00:44:51,760 --> 00:44:53,560
get out.
I just don't know.

753
00:44:54,920 --> 00:44:58,600
And I think if they thought that
they could buy a parcel of

754
00:44:58,600 --> 00:45:02,680
ground in a subdivision that was
dedicated to these types of

755
00:45:02,680 --> 00:45:10,080
ideas and that if someone in
that community would basically

756
00:45:10,080 --> 00:45:15,080
create and help build a turnkey
homestead in their absence, that

757
00:45:15,080 --> 00:45:17,360
they could visit, that they
could come to, that they could

758
00:45:17,360 --> 00:45:21,520
help, but they wouldn't have to
leave until they were ready to

759
00:45:21,520 --> 00:45:24,240
leave because their source of
incomes in the city.

760
00:45:24,920 --> 00:45:26,960
And maybe that would be, you
know, there's a lot of

761
00:45:26,960 --> 00:45:29,920
philosophy out there that, you
know, when, when things get

762
00:45:29,920 --> 00:45:35,320
really bad, I'll get out and I
and I hope, but how many people

763
00:45:35,320 --> 00:45:39,440
who want to do that can actually
would actually be able to time

764
00:45:39,440 --> 00:45:41,040
that?
And then what could they do?

765
00:45:41,040 --> 00:45:43,840
Could they find a place?
They certainly aren't going to

766
00:45:43,840 --> 00:45:46,840
find a place where the goats are
milking or the greenhouse has,

767
00:45:47,320 --> 00:45:51,760
has let us growing, you know,
but what if you had?

768
00:45:52,320 --> 00:45:56,280
My thoughts are what if we could
take and, and start gathering

769
00:45:56,280 --> 00:45:59,720
lists of people who were
interested in, say, an

770
00:45:59,720 --> 00:46:05,640
internship, people who would
love to work their way to a

771
00:46:05,640 --> 00:46:09,800
parcel, you know, over a year or
two or whatever, whatever was

772
00:46:10,400 --> 00:46:14,080
appropriate based on amount of
time given and so on and so

773
00:46:14,080 --> 00:46:15,160
forth.
Where they could come in and

774
00:46:15,160 --> 00:46:19,280
learn how to, to take care of
animals and grow gardens and

775
00:46:19,280 --> 00:46:21,880
build greenhouses and build
barns and sheds and all the

776
00:46:21,880 --> 00:46:25,640
things that come with living
self sufficiently at the same

777
00:46:25,640 --> 00:46:30,280
time in an internship setting
where maybe they're the room and

778
00:46:30,280 --> 00:46:32,720
board are, are taken care of and
they're even maybe paid some.

779
00:46:32,880 --> 00:46:35,080
You know, I haven't figured out
all the things.

780
00:46:35,080 --> 00:46:37,720
I'm just thinking about it
philosophically.

781
00:46:37,720 --> 00:46:41,760
So a group of people who are
dedicated to getting a parcel

782
00:46:41,760 --> 00:46:46,760
and building a homestead, and
once they have it, well, now

783
00:46:46,760 --> 00:46:51,040
they have to make a living.
And then what if you had a

784
00:46:51,040 --> 00:46:54,920
section of ground and two or
three or four individuals like

785
00:46:54,920 --> 00:46:59,080
that who had proven themselves
and now they wanted a living

786
00:46:59,280 --> 00:47:03,160
taking care of somebody else's
place, hiring themselves out.

787
00:47:04,600 --> 00:47:08,840
And so then people who aren't
ready to quite yet move could

788
00:47:08,960 --> 00:47:14,200
buy a parcel and hire somebody
in the community to, to make

789
00:47:14,200 --> 00:47:18,160
sure that their greenhouse is
going around, make sure that

790
00:47:18,160 --> 00:47:20,840
their animals, if they want to
raise goats or sheep or if they

791
00:47:20,840 --> 00:47:24,400
want to, you know, whatever they
decide to do for their parcel,

792
00:47:24,560 --> 00:47:27,040
there are people there that they
could hire.

793
00:47:27,400 --> 00:47:30,440
And their homestead would be
perpetual.

794
00:47:30,760 --> 00:47:33,200
And the food from it and the
resources from it could either

795
00:47:33,200 --> 00:47:36,200
be taken back or could be taken
to the city or could be sold at

796
00:47:36,200 --> 00:47:37,720
the market.
And then the money could be

797
00:47:37,720 --> 00:47:40,160
given to them to take care of
their more, you know, whatever

798
00:47:40,160 --> 00:47:43,240
their whatever their needs are.
There's a lot of different ways

799
00:47:43,240 --> 00:47:46,840
that it could be run, but the
classes of people would be

800
00:47:46,840 --> 00:47:50,240
working together toward the same
goal that a community of

801
00:47:50,240 --> 00:47:54,160
self-sufficient people would
live together there who

802
00:47:54,160 --> 00:48:00,280
understand what that means.
I know that in its idea state,

803
00:48:00,280 --> 00:48:03,240
where it's at right now, you
know, there's a tremendous

804
00:48:03,240 --> 00:48:07,080
amount of of the more particular
matters that will need to be

805
00:48:07,080 --> 00:48:12,960
dealt with as as as I play with
the idea and people gather and

806
00:48:12,960 --> 00:48:17,960
we throw around the logistical
ideas and say, how are we going

807
00:48:17,960 --> 00:48:21,080
to make this work?
You know, but I think that

808
00:48:21,080 --> 00:48:25,280
there's an opportunity and you
and I talked a little bit, you

809
00:48:25,280 --> 00:48:29,680
know, the last time about, you
know, helping, helping the

810
00:48:29,680 --> 00:48:35,680
remnant in whatever far reaching
idea you may put upon that

811
00:48:35,920 --> 00:48:39,800
remnant, you know, whether be
the, the, the absolute

812
00:48:40,120 --> 00:48:43,960
descendants of Lehigh or the
remnant of Jacob and all of its

813
00:48:43,960 --> 00:48:45,840
facets and all those different
things.

814
00:48:45,840 --> 00:48:50,520
But somehow we need to find a
way to live self-sufficient and

815
00:48:50,520 --> 00:48:54,240
survive through what's coming.
And I don't think it's going to

816
00:48:54,240 --> 00:48:55,840
be I don't think it's going to
be easy.

817
00:48:57,280 --> 00:48:59,080
We have to find a way to help
our neighbor.

818
00:49:00,360 --> 00:49:03,960
Interestingly enough, Thomas
Jefferson, when he ran for

819
00:49:03,960 --> 00:49:07,960
president a few years before
Joseph Smith was born, I think

820
00:49:07,960 --> 00:49:13,000
he he ran in O2 or he became the
president in 18 O two or

821
00:49:13,000 --> 00:49:16,480
eighteen O 4.
Jill Smith was born in 18 O 5.

822
00:49:16,480 --> 00:49:18,520
So these were some of the ideas
that Jill Smith was kind of

823
00:49:18,520 --> 00:49:21,840
raised with.
But he ran on this idea of an

824
00:49:21,840 --> 00:49:25,840
agrarian society and it was his
and his desire and his

825
00:49:25,840 --> 00:49:29,720
understanding that he did not
want and neither did the

826
00:49:29,720 --> 00:49:35,000
founding fathers want for the
tragedies of, of what had

827
00:49:35,000 --> 00:49:38,960
happened in Europe, which the
industrial industrial

828
00:49:38,960 --> 00:49:41,680
revolution, they felt it
destroyed, was destroying

829
00:49:41,680 --> 00:49:44,800
Europe.
And they did not want that to

830
00:49:44,800 --> 00:49:47,080
happen here.
And so his idea was that if we

831
00:49:47,080 --> 00:49:51,880
could populate the country, the
entire N you know, North America

832
00:49:52,280 --> 00:49:56,560
with agrarian society, that it
could never be destroyed from

833
00:49:56,560 --> 00:49:59,760
without because each community
would be healthy and

834
00:49:59,760 --> 00:50:01,760
self-sufficient.
And you could take a community

835
00:50:02,360 --> 00:50:05,160
and it wouldn't affect, you
know, the rest of the country,

836
00:50:05,800 --> 00:50:07,560
right?
And, and there's, there's just

837
00:50:07,560 --> 00:50:09,400
some deep, deep truths to those
things.

838
00:50:09,400 --> 00:50:12,920
And I, I think that he was right
on track with his ideas.

839
00:50:13,320 --> 00:50:19,240
Of course we've messed that up.
Sure, sure, but more, more than

840
00:50:19,240 --> 00:50:21,480
you know, Jeff.
So look, now that you're

841
00:50:21,480 --> 00:50:24,320
starting to play with land here
a little bit, you know how land

842
00:50:24,320 --> 00:50:27,800
is laid out West of the 13
original colonies, right?

843
00:50:27,800 --> 00:50:32,160
It's laid out in mile squares
that, you know, form a Township.

844
00:50:32,880 --> 00:50:38,520
That Jefferson's idea that was
who came up with that and the

845
00:50:38,520 --> 00:50:41,360
reason he came up with that was
for two reasons.

846
00:50:41,360 --> 00:50:44,440
The first reason and probably
the, the the less important

847
00:50:44,440 --> 00:50:48,800
reason was it was easy to sell
those parcels, right?

848
00:50:49,840 --> 00:50:52,960
Because you could just say, you
know, the north half of the

849
00:50:53,000 --> 00:50:58,720
north half of Section 2
Township, you know, 3 N range 4

850
00:50:58,720 --> 00:51:00,720
W, right?
Real easy.

851
00:51:02,240 --> 00:51:05,080
But more importantly, he
designed every one of those

852
00:51:05,080 --> 00:51:10,800
townships were, which were 6
miles square and you know, 6

853
00:51:10,800 --> 00:51:14,160
miles east West, 6 miles north
S, 6 miles square.

854
00:51:14,960 --> 00:51:18,120
Those would be their own voting
districts.

855
00:51:18,880 --> 00:51:21,520
And he did that because he's
like, OK, now they can't Jerry

856
00:51:21,520 --> 00:51:25,360
meander.
And then we screwed it up.

857
00:51:26,560 --> 00:51:31,320
But but like they, they he was,
he was not a dope like he

858
00:51:31,840 --> 00:51:34,920
everybody says, Oh well, they,
they couldn't have seen what

859
00:51:34,920 --> 00:51:37,280
what was coming.
And I'm like, well, actually, if

860
00:51:37,280 --> 00:51:41,040
you read the notes, they're
they're relatively well informed

861
00:51:41,400 --> 00:51:45,120
on on the condition of mankind's
the the state of the natural

862
00:51:45,120 --> 00:51:47,480
man.
Let me ask you a couple

863
00:51:47,480 --> 00:51:52,320
questions here real quick first,
and then because I think this

864
00:51:52,320 --> 00:51:55,520
will draw some some some deeper
conversation here and some some

865
00:51:55,520 --> 00:51:59,360
more ideas.
So when in in your idea of of

866
00:51:59,920 --> 00:52:04,440
forming this, this little gosh,
for lack of a better word,

867
00:52:04,640 --> 00:52:07,960
colony, right subdivision of
like minded people.

868
00:52:08,400 --> 00:52:11,760
This isn't necessarily building
Zion, right?

869
00:52:11,800 --> 00:52:15,680
I mean, this would be kind of a
forerunner to that you're

870
00:52:15,680 --> 00:52:19,800
thinking or or I would assume.
You know, at, at this point, my

871
00:52:19,800 --> 00:52:25,080
thoughts are that the temporal
needs of individuals from all

872
00:52:25,080 --> 00:52:30,520
walks of life have we've got to
find a way to to survive and to

873
00:52:30,520 --> 00:52:33,800
be safe in, in communities,
right?

874
00:52:33,800 --> 00:52:38,640
You know, you know what the the
the specifics of building a

875
00:52:38,640 --> 00:52:41,640
Zion, you know Zion.
How do we define Zion once

876
00:52:41,640 --> 00:52:44,400
again, where the pure and heart
are, where the Lord's spirit is.

877
00:52:44,400 --> 00:52:45,680
You know, all of those kinds of
things.

878
00:52:46,360 --> 00:52:50,840
And you know, you could say that
if a people were fleeing to

879
00:52:50,840 --> 00:52:54,280
Zion, as the scriptures say,
some of the more prominent ones

880
00:52:54,280 --> 00:52:57,440
talk about that he will not take
up his sword against his

881
00:52:57,440 --> 00:52:59,400
neighbor must needs flee to
Zion.

882
00:53:00,280 --> 00:53:04,600
So one, it will be societies and
groups of individuals who, who

883
00:53:04,600 --> 00:53:07,920
just don't want to fight, you
know, they, they, they don't

884
00:53:07,920 --> 00:53:09,960
want to take up the sword in
anger.

885
00:53:09,960 --> 00:53:13,200
And boy, you know, you don't
have to look very far on the

886
00:53:13,200 --> 00:53:16,920
news any given day to see the
division that is upon our

887
00:53:16,920 --> 00:53:20,960
country and, and that will end
in bloodshed at some point.

888
00:53:21,240 --> 00:53:23,720
You know, there's just, there's
no way to go back, in my

889
00:53:23,720 --> 00:53:29,200
opinion, from the ideological
division that that has taken

890
00:53:29,200 --> 00:53:34,360
place, the the sheer hatred that
we see politically and in, in so

891
00:53:34,360 --> 00:53:38,720
many other realms.
But so in the beginning, I think

892
00:53:38,720 --> 00:53:42,880
that even just making it
available for people to find a

893
00:53:42,880 --> 00:53:47,320
place to practice the peaceful
way of life, you know, as the

894
00:53:47,320 --> 00:53:51,440
Lord said, look to the old paths
and do what I told you a long

895
00:53:51,440 --> 00:53:54,320
time ago.
We'll maybe put you, you know,

896
00:53:54,320 --> 00:53:57,560
can we even think about
religious and moral ideas if

897
00:53:57,560 --> 00:53:59,600
we're worried where our next
meal's coming from?

898
00:54:00,560 --> 00:54:03,120
But we'll know we can't.
You know, if you read the

899
00:54:03,120 --> 00:54:07,160
Journal of Discourses, a fair
share of it is on the temporal

900
00:54:07,160 --> 00:54:10,680
nature of them trying to survive
the first number of years in the

901
00:54:10,680 --> 00:54:16,000
Valley and how to get the people
to to be able to do just go out

902
00:54:16,000 --> 00:54:17,920
and farm.
You know all a lot of them are

903
00:54:17,920 --> 00:54:23,440
very technical, how to talks to
make sure the people survived.

904
00:54:23,920 --> 00:54:28,080
And then if you can help a
people learn how to survive

905
00:54:28,080 --> 00:54:31,120
together, then you can start
dealing with the spiritual

906
00:54:31,240 --> 00:54:35,280
aspects of, you know, of faith
and belief.

907
00:54:35,280 --> 00:54:38,040
And, and, but once again, those
are the things like I was

908
00:54:38,040 --> 00:54:43,400
talking about my experience of
trying to survive before, you

909
00:54:43,400 --> 00:54:46,520
know, I learned a lot of those
things because of the hardship

910
00:54:46,720 --> 00:54:51,240
of surviving, relying upon God
and, and not man.

911
00:54:52,240 --> 00:54:54,440
And, and I'm, as I consider to
be a wacko.

912
00:54:54,880 --> 00:55:00,560
So, you know, to, to start with
this, this idea of people who

913
00:55:00,560 --> 00:55:03,640
are willing to, you know, try to
work together and learn how to

914
00:55:03,640 --> 00:55:06,920
help and to raise their own food
and help their neighbor and to

915
00:55:06,920 --> 00:55:10,760
share and, and all those things.
You know, it's going to take an

916
00:55:10,760 --> 00:55:13,320
interesting class of people that
are willing to go there.

917
00:55:13,840 --> 00:55:17,640
And I think there are, there are
probably members of that group

918
00:55:17,640 --> 00:55:21,520
of people in represented in all
sorts of different demographics

919
00:55:21,520 --> 00:55:24,000
and, you know, and social
structures.

920
00:55:24,480 --> 00:55:28,840
And, you know, the scriptures
even talk about how all nations,

921
00:55:28,840 --> 00:55:32,920
once again, you know, the a
remnant from all nations will

922
00:55:32,920 --> 00:55:37,680
flow to where there's peace.
And, and I, you know, I'm not so

923
00:55:38,120 --> 00:55:42,080
brazen or bold as to think that
that I could create a place that

924
00:55:42,080 --> 00:55:45,320
would be that place.
But I can certainly do my best

925
00:55:45,400 --> 00:55:48,720
to try to create a place where
my children and my family and

926
00:55:48,720 --> 00:55:51,560
some others might be able to be
in a place like that.

927
00:55:52,360 --> 00:55:54,720
If that makes, if that makes
sense.

928
00:55:55,560 --> 00:56:00,360
And, you know, I, I, I, I've
talked with a couple people and

929
00:56:00,360 --> 00:56:02,760
I don't even know how this would
be, you know, this would be

930
00:56:03,720 --> 00:56:05,760
administered.
But I was chatting with a, a

931
00:56:05,760 --> 00:56:08,680
friend of mine who was a
missionary when I lived up on

932
00:56:08,680 --> 00:56:11,600
the mountain and he came home
and he studied for years and,

933
00:56:12,160 --> 00:56:15,480
and is getting his degree and
is, is very well, he's written

934
00:56:15,480 --> 00:56:17,320
books on the Constitution and
other things.

935
00:56:17,320 --> 00:56:21,280
And I called him a few months
ago and I said, you know, how

936
00:56:21,280 --> 00:56:24,240
would we go about writing up a
homeowners?

937
00:56:24,480 --> 00:56:27,760
I hate a homeowners associations
cause to me they.

938
00:56:29,120 --> 00:56:32,120
I that that's good 'cause I
can't imagine you being a care

939
00:56:32,120 --> 00:56:35,280
and going out there and
measuring the deciduous tree and

940
00:56:35,280 --> 00:56:38,680
being like you're in violation.
Oh my gosh.

941
00:56:38,840 --> 00:56:42,680
Anyway, so, you know, I've
heard, I've never lived in a

942
00:56:42,680 --> 00:56:45,120
homeowners association and I've
heard so many horror stories.

943
00:56:45,120 --> 00:56:47,760
And I've worked for companies
that have, you know, dealt, you

944
00:56:47,800 --> 00:56:50,760
know, do their business fixing
what the homeowners associations

945
00:56:50,760 --> 00:56:52,680
require people to fix.
Right.

946
00:56:53,600 --> 00:56:56,960
But anyway, you know, I thought
how would it be if we were able

947
00:56:56,960 --> 00:57:01,240
to actually do an, you know, the
opposite of a homeowners

948
00:57:01,240 --> 00:57:03,400
association as a homeowners
association.

949
00:57:03,400 --> 00:57:07,200
In other words, adopt, adopt the
bylaws that are very, very

950
00:57:07,200 --> 00:57:11,720
similar constitution, you know,
guaranteeing that you won't step

951
00:57:11,720 --> 00:57:15,280
on your neighbors rights,
guaranteeing that you will give

952
00:57:15,280 --> 00:57:17,960
them the ability to have their
freedoms as you want yours.

953
00:57:17,960 --> 00:57:22,640
And if you wrote up a document
like that, then maybe that's one

954
00:57:22,640 --> 00:57:26,440
way of preserving those ideas
through the destruction of of

955
00:57:26,440 --> 00:57:28,680
the Constitution and the country
as we see it.

956
00:57:29,040 --> 00:57:33,760
But it may be held and practiced
by individuals and communities

957
00:57:34,040 --> 00:57:37,840
because they've contracted with
each other to be at peace.

958
00:57:38,280 --> 00:57:41,240
Sure, sure.
So I don't know, these are all

959
00:57:41,240 --> 00:57:43,640
things that are floating off my
my brain.

960
00:57:44,400 --> 00:57:48,960
Well, we'll get to that part
'cause I, I might actually have

961
00:57:48,960 --> 00:57:53,840
a couple of ideas for you since
sweet die die survey, right?

962
00:57:53,840 --> 00:57:56,600
I understand the subdivision
process, which is essentially

963
00:57:56,600 --> 00:58:02,320
what you're looking at.
But but let's, let's first

964
00:58:02,400 --> 00:58:08,680
concentrate here.
How much land do you think as

965
00:58:08,680 --> 00:58:12,480
you envision this?
How big of a parcel of land do

966
00:58:12,480 --> 00:58:14,760
you need, do you think you need
in order to do these

967
00:58:14,760 --> 00:58:16,440
subdivisions?
And then how many?

968
00:58:17,320 --> 00:58:22,160
I don't have a clue.
I think that I think what I've

969
00:58:22,160 --> 00:58:24,640
done, and I'll just tell you
over the last, you know, few

970
00:58:24,640 --> 00:58:28,440
years, but, but in particular,
I've finished my work or, or at

971
00:58:28,440 --> 00:58:34,480
least in creating, I've created
an LLC for the purpose of, of

972
00:58:35,280 --> 00:58:38,880
land development so that I could
do this, you know, and, and

973
00:58:39,080 --> 00:58:42,600
legally and, and be able to
gather funds and buy properties

974
00:58:42,600 --> 00:58:44,840
and develop them into these
subdivisions.

975
00:58:45,360 --> 00:58:47,640
And I've thought, you know,
there's just so many different

976
00:58:47,640 --> 00:58:54,000
types of people and, and it
would be nice to be able to buy

977
00:58:54,360 --> 00:58:57,360
even a, even a nice 20 acre
parcel and subdivide it into

978
00:58:57,360 --> 00:58:59,680
fives.
I, I think that a family that's,

979
00:59:00,600 --> 00:59:03,120
you know, I think you can
survive on a good piece of

980
00:59:03,120 --> 00:59:08,040
ground, you know, on an acre, if
you, you know, I think you can

981
00:59:08,040 --> 00:59:11,200
with the technology that we have
for greenhouse and so on and so

982
00:59:11,200 --> 00:59:13,320
forth.
And that's kind of why, you

983
00:59:13,320 --> 00:59:17,800
know, I named my, I named this
corporation old paths new

984
00:59:19,240 --> 00:59:22,560
because we certainly live in a,
in what we hope to be a new and

985
00:59:22,560 --> 00:59:25,800
progressive world, but at the
same time not deviating from the

986
00:59:25,800 --> 00:59:29,520
Lord's direction of the old
paths and what that is to raise

987
00:59:29,520 --> 00:59:33,280
your own food.
But we do have technology for

988
00:59:33,280 --> 00:59:35,720
greenhouses.
We do have technology to raise

989
00:59:36,080 --> 00:59:39,480
fodder in a, in a shed for your
animals that's the size of a

990
00:59:39,480 --> 00:59:42,960
bedroom that'll take care of,
you know, all the animals you

991
00:59:42,960 --> 00:59:45,480
would need for, for meat and for
dairy.

992
00:59:46,240 --> 00:59:54,360
And so there are things that we
have, but I think that the pay

993
00:59:54,360 --> 00:59:57,520
would to be able to facilitate
helping different types of

994
00:59:57,520 --> 01:00:01,360
groups by let's say that if I
found, you know, as I'm going to

995
01:00:01,360 --> 01:00:03,600
start looking for ground.
I mean, I'm always, always have

996
01:00:03,600 --> 01:00:06,760
my eye on what's available and
have had for you.

997
01:00:06,760 --> 01:00:09,360
It's just very, very driven to
see what's out there.

998
01:00:09,840 --> 01:00:13,720
I have one ranch that I've been
looking at up in up in South

999
01:00:13,720 --> 01:00:16,080
Dakota about 3 hours north of us
that I would just.

1000
01:00:16,720 --> 01:00:20,120
It would be the greatest place
to have, you know, 100 families

1001
01:00:20,120 --> 01:00:24,520
on it's about 3000 acres and it
has 12 miles of a river running

1002
01:00:24,520 --> 01:00:27,840
through it.
And it's just this beautiful,

1003
01:00:28,520 --> 01:00:31,560
beautiful ranch out in the
middle of South Dakota.

1004
01:00:33,200 --> 01:00:36,240
But I also think there's a lot
of people who would just love to

1005
01:00:36,240 --> 01:00:39,000
be self-sufficient and have a
little, you know, who would

1006
01:00:39,200 --> 01:00:43,560
would pay to have a a little
homestead built for them on five

1007
01:00:43,560 --> 01:00:46,720
acres.
And if we found 20 acre parcels

1008
01:00:46,720 --> 01:00:49,280
and subdivide it and there's
people who come along, then it

1009
01:00:49,280 --> 01:00:52,680
provides an income for the
people who are living on these

1010
01:00:52,680 --> 01:00:55,080
places.
You know, an income for rural

1011
01:00:55,080 --> 01:00:59,960
folks to make a living building
cabins and greenhouses and

1012
01:00:59,960 --> 01:01:02,440
helping and people with
excavators and so on and so

1013
01:01:02,440 --> 01:01:06,440
forth and everything else.
To have a, a living in a rural

1014
01:01:06,440 --> 01:01:08,520
setting, which sometimes can be
very difficult.

1015
01:01:08,560 --> 01:01:13,480
It's difficult to make a living
in a rural, especially the way

1016
01:01:13,480 --> 01:01:16,200
things have gone with farming.
If you don't, if you don't have

1017
01:01:16,200 --> 01:01:21,440
1000 acres and a debt you know
that's bigger than what you can

1018
01:01:21,440 --> 01:01:24,280
afford, you can't make a living
farming.

1019
01:01:24,320 --> 01:01:26,320
Really.
No, I, I, I think you're right.

1020
01:01:26,320 --> 01:01:28,520
And that's, that's what we're up
against, right?

1021
01:01:28,520 --> 01:01:33,480
And it feels like we're, we're
coming fast to a tipping point

1022
01:01:33,960 --> 01:01:37,080
in, in certainly in Western
civilization, specifically

1023
01:01:37,080 --> 01:01:41,160
America, where it's getting
harder and harder to, to, to own

1024
01:01:41,160 --> 01:01:45,720
a home, right?
I, I mean, look, I just left

1025
01:01:45,720 --> 01:01:49,240
Utah, right and I think the
average starter home is going

1026
01:01:49,240 --> 01:01:52,400
for right about 375 to 400
right.

1027
01:01:52,400 --> 01:01:57,120
And that's on a posted postage
stamp size lot that doesn't,

1028
01:01:57,320 --> 01:02:00,480
that still relies on the city
services and those sorts of

1029
01:02:00,480 --> 01:02:02,440
things.
So it seems like it's getting

1030
01:02:02,440 --> 01:02:04,680
farther and farther out of reach
and it's something that I've

1031
01:02:04,680 --> 01:02:09,880
monitored for quite a while.
And we're at that point where we

1032
01:02:09,880 --> 01:02:12,360
got to start coming up with some
other ideas, right?

1033
01:02:13,080 --> 01:02:16,840
And, and, you know, this idea of
always looking forward, you

1034
01:02:16,840 --> 01:02:20,480
know, don't get me wrong, I'm a
guy who loves the latest and

1035
01:02:20,480 --> 01:02:23,720
greatest shiny thing, right?
But sometimes the answers lay

1036
01:02:23,720 --> 01:02:26,160
lay in the past.
And I think that's kind of where

1037
01:02:26,160 --> 01:02:28,880
we're at, right?
Because again, we've unhinged

1038
01:02:28,880 --> 01:02:31,160
from reality a little bit.
We've unhinged from God.

1039
01:02:31,160 --> 01:02:34,560
We've unhinged from this idea
that that that, you know, we

1040
01:02:34,560 --> 01:02:38,720
really are dependent upon his
blessings and the some of those

1041
01:02:38,720 --> 01:02:42,280
blessings that come from the
earth, you know, and, and we got

1042
01:02:42,280 --> 01:02:45,440
to get back to that if we want
to establish anything real.

1043
01:02:47,120 --> 01:02:50,280
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1044
01:02:50,600 --> 01:02:54,280
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1045
01:02:54,280 --> 01:02:58,080
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1046
01:02:58,080 --> 01:03:00,480
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1047
01:03:01,200 --> 01:03:05,120
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1048
01:03:05,120 --> 01:03:09,040
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1049
01:03:09,080 --> 01:03:13,640
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1050
01:03:13,640 --> 01:03:16,760
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Dave Sanders.

1051
01:03:17,240 --> 01:03:20,440
Click the link in this episode's
show notes today.

1052
01:03:20,960 --> 01:03:23,720
And, and we got to get back to
that if we want to establish

1053
01:03:23,880 --> 01:03:29,840
anything real.
And, and we, we're at that point

1054
01:03:29,840 --> 01:03:32,680
where we need to start looking
for solutions and quite frankly,

1055
01:03:33,280 --> 01:03:36,000
kind of a counterculture
mentality, right?

1056
01:03:36,000 --> 01:03:41,560
I'm not saying completely
disconnect from, from society as

1057
01:03:41,560 --> 01:03:44,440
a whole, because I do believe
that, that we are to be change

1058
01:03:44,440 --> 01:03:49,200
agents in the society at large,
but we don't, it's that old

1059
01:03:49,200 --> 01:03:50,600
adage.
You got to live in the world,

1060
01:03:50,600 --> 01:03:52,680
but not of the be of the world,
right?

1061
01:03:54,320 --> 01:03:58,600
And so it's it's a fine balance.
It is a fine balance and we've,

1062
01:03:58,680 --> 01:04:02,840
we've kind of played around that
and we use it, I think as a as a

1063
01:04:02,840 --> 01:04:08,000
crutch because I, I think that
when it comes down to it, if, if

1064
01:04:08,000 --> 01:04:12,480
we're looking at the times right
now, if it's possible, let's

1065
01:04:12,480 --> 01:04:16,760
just think for a moment that
what we're watching in our lives

1066
01:04:16,760 --> 01:04:22,320
right now is what our parents
and the early brethren and our

1067
01:04:22,320 --> 01:04:27,680
grandparents waited for.
You know, if we're watching the

1068
01:04:27,680 --> 01:04:31,680
unwinding of our civilization
has prophesied for thousands of

1069
01:04:31,680 --> 01:04:35,680
years, right?
Let's just say that this is the

1070
01:04:35,680 --> 01:04:40,480
beginning or the middle or the
portion of that as things take

1071
01:04:40,480 --> 01:04:45,320
their take their course.
All right, I don't think that

1072
01:04:45,320 --> 01:04:49,800
that division.
I don't think that the adage in

1073
01:04:49,800 --> 01:04:52,680
the world, but not of the world.
Oh, we're in it because we live

1074
01:04:52,680 --> 01:04:57,080
here, but we will be asked to
absolutely separate ourselves

1075
01:04:57,680 --> 01:05:02,520
and and at the peril of our
lives if we do not because it's.

1076
01:05:04,120 --> 01:05:07,960
And so, you know, we watch and
we're just astounded at the

1077
01:05:07,960 --> 01:05:12,600
news, you know, the news reels
that come in of, you know, of

1078
01:05:13,240 --> 01:05:15,440
the gang violence.
And of course, you're brought to

1079
01:05:15,440 --> 01:05:18,600
the if you're a Book of Mormon
fan and you love to read that

1080
01:05:18,600 --> 01:05:20,880
stuff, You just sit and shake
your head and go on.

1081
01:05:20,880 --> 01:05:25,680
Oh my gosh, you know, it's all
it's all happen.

1082
01:05:26,320 --> 01:05:29,120
You know, you got the gaddy Ant
robbers at the highest and the

1083
01:05:29,120 --> 01:05:32,840
lowest levels and, you know, and
they're all starting to join

1084
01:05:33,160 --> 01:05:38,360
hands to take over the world.
And luckily the there is some

1085
01:05:38,360 --> 01:05:41,720
hope.
Isaiah talks about that, those,

1086
01:05:41,840 --> 01:05:46,120
you know, that remnant of a
remnant that will, who are

1087
01:05:46,200 --> 01:05:50,520
survived.
And you think what, how, how are

1088
01:05:50,520 --> 01:05:53,800
they going to survive?
Well, it's because they will

1089
01:05:53,800 --> 01:05:58,440
have their own food and they'll
be out of the city and the

1090
01:05:58,440 --> 01:06:00,800
Lord's protection will then
protect them from there.

1091
01:06:00,800 --> 01:06:04,760
If they've done enough to look
for the old paths and if they're

1092
01:06:04,760 --> 01:06:09,320
willing to do what he asks,
they're going to find a place.

1093
01:06:09,320 --> 01:06:12,800
And it's not going to be easy
because we're used to so much

1094
01:06:12,800 --> 01:06:15,400
being just handed to us.
And we're going to have to work

1095
01:06:15,400 --> 01:06:17,760
our butts off and learn to get
along and learn to love one

1096
01:06:17,760 --> 01:06:19,680
another.
And then we're going to have to

1097
01:06:19,680 --> 01:06:22,160
rely upon the Lord to fight
those battles that we can't

1098
01:06:22,160 --> 01:06:25,040
fight because we live in a world
that there is no place to hide.

1099
01:06:25,360 --> 01:06:28,280
Right, right.
There's no place to hide except

1100
01:06:28,280 --> 01:06:30,640
within his power.
Yeah, absolutely.

1101
01:06:31,200 --> 01:06:32,840
You know, so that.
Awareness.

1102
01:06:33,360 --> 01:06:35,280
Yeah.
Well, and, and here's the thing,

1103
01:06:35,280 --> 01:06:38,320
right?
Take, take the last day's

1104
01:06:38,320 --> 01:06:41,520
equation out of it, right?
How many people would just love

1105
01:06:41,520 --> 01:06:44,680
to get out of the city, right?
I think if there's one thing

1106
01:06:44,680 --> 01:06:50,960
that COVID taught us, it's that
the model that we've been living

1107
01:06:50,960 --> 01:06:53,760
with is highly unsustainable,
right?

1108
01:06:54,040 --> 01:07:00,520
It takes 1 Black Swan event
before, before civilization is

1109
01:07:00,520 --> 01:07:05,880
brought to its knees, right?
We saw what happened when when

1110
01:07:05,880 --> 01:07:09,080
you lived in massive cities
during COVID.

1111
01:07:09,120 --> 01:07:11,920
It was, it was a nightmare.
It was horrific, right?

1112
01:07:12,280 --> 01:07:14,640
You the food chain was, it was
all jacked.

1113
01:07:14,640 --> 01:07:16,320
You couldn't get the stuff you
needed.

1114
01:07:16,840 --> 01:07:20,320
It, it, it absolutely exposed
us, right?

1115
01:07:20,320 --> 01:07:23,320
And, and and quite quite
frankly, I feel like it was a

1116
01:07:23,320 --> 01:07:26,920
gentle nudge from the Lord to be
like, look, don't forget.

1117
01:07:26,920 --> 01:07:29,840
Yeah, you know what?
What's going on here?

1118
01:07:30,320 --> 01:07:33,000
And so just take the last day's
equation out of it.

1119
01:07:33,000 --> 01:07:35,640
There's a ton of people now that
want to get out of those

1120
01:07:35,640 --> 01:07:38,000
metroplexes.
They just want out, they've,

1121
01:07:38,000 --> 01:07:41,880
they've determined it's not
sustainable even if there's not

1122
01:07:41,880 --> 01:07:44,640
a crisis, right?
And so folks want to get out of

1123
01:07:44,640 --> 01:07:50,040
that as quickly as they can.
So let, let, let's work this

1124
01:07:50,040 --> 01:07:52,600
plan here a little bit, right?
So you got some land.

1125
01:07:52,680 --> 01:07:56,000
We'll, we'll just assume you got
some land, you're ready to go.

1126
01:07:56,240 --> 01:07:58,840
I want to talk about the two or
three types of people you

1127
01:07:58,840 --> 01:08:00,680
brought up.
And I want to talk about their

1128
01:08:00,680 --> 01:08:04,680
various roles in this because I
think that's important to bring

1129
01:08:04,680 --> 01:08:06,440
out for people who might be
interested.

1130
01:08:06,840 --> 01:08:10,560
So first let's talk about those
people who, who want to maybe

1131
01:08:10,560 --> 01:08:12,920
move out there but aren't quite
ready yet, right?

1132
01:08:12,920 --> 01:08:16,479
The people and, and, and kind of
the vibe I got, these are the

1133
01:08:16,479 --> 01:08:20,120
ones that have, you know, access
to financial resources.

1134
01:08:20,120 --> 01:08:23,000
Is that a fair assessment?
I think it's a very fair

1135
01:08:23,000 --> 01:08:24,359
assessment.
You know, there's no reason to

1136
01:08:24,840 --> 01:08:26,840
pull any punches.
You know, we all live at

1137
01:08:26,840 --> 01:08:31,359
different levels of, of
financial ability, you know, to

1138
01:08:31,359 --> 01:08:34,640
go out and buy something and,
and, but yet we also live in a,

1139
01:08:34,760 --> 01:08:38,279
in a society that I think now
they're trying to figure out how

1140
01:08:38,279 --> 01:08:40,760
to get people into 40 and 50
year mortgages.

1141
01:08:41,640 --> 01:08:43,359
Yep.
That's the new deal.

1142
01:08:43,520 --> 01:08:45,359
That's the new deal that's going
to save the world.

1143
01:08:45,600 --> 01:08:48,399
The new.
Yeah, the new New Deal that your

1144
01:08:48,399 --> 01:08:50,160
grandkids will be paying off
your house.

1145
01:08:50,399 --> 01:08:52,840
And you know what?
A joke.

1146
01:08:54,200 --> 01:08:56,560
So what?
What would those people do,

1147
01:08:56,560 --> 01:08:59,600
those that have those financial
resources?

1148
01:09:00,120 --> 01:09:02,479
You know, I think there's a lot
of folks I've known a lot of

1149
01:09:02,479 --> 01:09:08,040
people that are, you know, have
given their the time in their

1150
01:09:08,040 --> 01:09:11,560
lives to building up businesses
and careers and, and are, you

1151
01:09:11,560 --> 01:09:14,760
know, doctors and lawyers and
dentists and all those kinds of

1152
01:09:14,760 --> 01:09:17,600
things.
But their income and the

1153
01:09:17,600 --> 01:09:21,720
continuation of it is tied to
being in a city where there's

1154
01:09:21,720 --> 01:09:26,200
people who, who purchase their
services, you know, just for the

1155
01:09:26,200 --> 01:09:30,800
most part, it really is.
And so many of them would desire

1156
01:09:30,840 --> 01:09:33,720
to live outside if they just
thought there was a way.

1157
01:09:33,840 --> 01:09:38,840
And they look for, you know,
they look for cabin in the

1158
01:09:38,840 --> 01:09:43,279
woods, you know, or a cabin at
the ski resort Because it, it

1159
01:09:43,279 --> 01:09:46,720
gives you that sense of I got
out of the city and you can

1160
01:09:46,720 --> 01:09:49,319
drive for 1/2 hour, 45 minutes
or even 2 hours.

1161
01:09:50,080 --> 01:09:54,160
And you just relax more than
you've relaxed in a long time,

1162
01:09:54,480 --> 01:09:56,280
and you decompress.
Why, 'cause you're out of the

1163
01:09:56,280 --> 01:10:01,400
damn city. 2 million people all
thinking different and weird

1164
01:10:01,400 --> 01:10:03,320
thoughts and half of them
thinking mean thoughts.

1165
01:10:03,320 --> 01:10:06,440
And you think that doesn't
affect your, your, your being.

1166
01:10:07,000 --> 01:10:08,880
You know, it does.
It just works on us.

1167
01:10:08,880 --> 01:10:12,160
I mean, my first wife and I used
to drive down from Montana, and

1168
01:10:12,160 --> 01:10:16,480
we'd get about to Tremont, and
you could feel it.

1169
01:10:18,200 --> 01:10:21,160
Maybe we were just being weird,
but you could feel the

1170
01:10:21,160 --> 01:10:23,600
difference.
And Tremont's still rural.

1171
01:10:24,120 --> 01:10:26,680
Yeah, that's that's out.
That's in the middle of nowhere,

1172
01:10:26,680 --> 01:10:28,560
Utah, right?
Not anymore.

1173
01:10:28,560 --> 01:10:31,120
Maybe.
But you could feel the tension

1174
01:10:31,280 --> 01:10:33,760
in the air.
But you sure got used to it real

1175
01:10:33,760 --> 01:10:36,040
easy.
By the time I'd hit, you know,

1176
01:10:36,120 --> 01:10:38,600
Murray, I was looking at the
cool cars on the freeway going.

1177
01:10:38,640 --> 01:10:41,480
Oh, I wish I had.
Wish I could afford one of

1178
01:10:41,480 --> 01:10:42,520
those.
Yeah.

1179
01:10:43,280 --> 01:10:46,680
And so you, you just adjust and,
and then, then it becomes like

1180
01:10:46,720 --> 01:10:54,240
any other any other day.
But I it's, it's a hard thing to

1181
01:10:54,240 --> 01:10:57,600
want to disconnect.
Sorry Dave, I lost my train of

1182
01:10:57,600 --> 01:10:58,040
thought.
There.

1183
01:10:58,040 --> 01:11:00,560
No, you're good.
We were talking about that first

1184
01:11:00,560 --> 01:11:02,520
group and how they fit into this
plan.

1185
01:11:02,800 --> 01:11:05,040
So are.
Are these going to be people

1186
01:11:05,040 --> 01:11:06,920
that you envision moving in
right away?

1187
01:11:06,920 --> 01:11:11,720
Are they going to be ones that
like, as you look at it, are

1188
01:11:11,720 --> 01:11:14,960
these people who are maybe just
looking at preparing a place to

1189
01:11:14,960 --> 01:11:19,640
kind of bug out to when they
want to or retire on?

1190
01:11:19,680 --> 01:11:21,880
I mean, what?
What do you see these folks

1191
01:11:21,880 --> 01:11:25,120
looking at real seriously?
No, I think that I think that

1192
01:11:25,120 --> 01:11:28,240
there's a class of people that
that out there that have the

1193
01:11:28,240 --> 01:11:30,880
resources.
If they knew that they could

1194
01:11:30,880 --> 01:11:35,840
live in a community where the,
I've been calling it a turnkey

1195
01:11:35,840 --> 01:11:40,560
homestead, you know, they could
have a place, they could buy 5

1196
01:11:40,560 --> 01:11:43,360
or 10 acres and build a place.
And while they're building,

1197
01:11:43,360 --> 01:11:45,920
there could be a, you know, a
little, little cabin built for

1198
01:11:45,920 --> 01:11:48,720
them to come visit to.
But at the same time, as a part

1199
01:11:48,720 --> 01:11:52,400
of, as a part of my idea for
some of the, the subdivisions

1200
01:11:52,400 --> 01:11:56,320
would be that, you know, the
idea is to be self-sufficient if

1201
01:11:56,320 --> 01:11:59,400
you live there or to seek to be
self-sufficient because that

1202
01:11:59,400 --> 01:12:03,600
helps, that helps the whole at a
certain level, somebody buys a

1203
01:12:03,600 --> 01:12:05,680
piece of property.
You can't force them, nor would

1204
01:12:05,680 --> 01:12:07,040
I want to force them to do
anything.

1205
01:12:07,040 --> 01:12:11,400
But the idea is we want this to
be a self-sufficient property,

1206
01:12:11,880 --> 01:12:16,120
you know, and, and if and if you
can't see yourself working the

1207
01:12:16,120 --> 01:12:18,840
land in some way, then maybe you
could lease it to some of the

1208
01:12:18,840 --> 01:12:22,600
neighbors who want to do more.
You know, maybe you can even

1209
01:12:22,600 --> 01:12:26,360
give them first rights of, you
know, that that before you turn

1210
01:12:26,360 --> 01:12:30,280
it into something else, you
know, consider leasing out this

1211
01:12:30,280 --> 01:12:33,240
ground for the cows that your
neighbor doesn't, you know, if

1212
01:12:33,240 --> 01:12:37,040
he wants to expand and has a
child who wants to raise a an

1213
01:12:37,040 --> 01:12:40,400
extra steer or something, you
know, so there's all sorts of

1214
01:12:40,400 --> 01:12:43,200
things that you could do.
Once again, I don't believe in,

1215
01:12:43,240 --> 01:12:46,800
you know, I believe in freedom
of private, private property

1216
01:12:46,800 --> 01:12:48,200
rights.
And you know, I would never want

1217
01:12:48,280 --> 01:12:52,160
to things, but the idea is
here's a piece of property for

1218
01:12:52,160 --> 01:12:54,480
you and this is the idea that
we're working with on this

1219
01:12:54,480 --> 01:12:55,640
property.
Sure.

1220
01:12:56,040 --> 01:12:58,920
So these are folks who wouldn't
be living there full time right

1221
01:12:58,920 --> 01:13:00,440
away.
These are folks, not.

1222
01:13:00,560 --> 01:13:03,160
Right away.
These would be folks who would

1223
01:13:03,560 --> 01:13:07,200
who would be in the city at
their jobs for a while while

1224
01:13:07,200 --> 01:13:10,200
things are getting set up and
they would be the one with

1225
01:13:10,240 --> 01:13:13,360
financial means, OK.
Yeah, yeah, as, as and there

1226
01:13:13,360 --> 01:13:16,720
might be other classes of those
who might want to move in right

1227
01:13:16,720 --> 01:13:17,800
away.
Right.

1228
01:13:18,400 --> 01:13:20,680
And and yeah, yeah, absolutely
there.

1229
01:13:20,680 --> 01:13:23,320
It's not going to be 100% across
the board, right.

1230
01:13:23,320 --> 01:13:25,480
But by and large, that's kind of
your idea.

1231
01:13:25,960 --> 01:13:29,520
So now let's talk about that
next group of people who you

1232
01:13:29,520 --> 01:13:32,720
said, you know, don't have
resources, but are maybe skilled

1233
01:13:32,720 --> 01:13:37,320
Craftsman of some sort, right?
How do how do they acquire this

1234
01:13:37,320 --> 01:13:39,200
land then?
Yeah.

1235
01:13:39,200 --> 01:13:41,640
Well, I think that there could
be, you know, our society has

1236
01:13:41,640 --> 01:13:47,280
used, or at least used to use
the idea of sweat equity to to

1237
01:13:47,280 --> 01:13:51,800
obtain land, to obtain a portion
off of their house.

1238
01:13:52,600 --> 01:13:55,280
And, you know, one of the things
that I learned when I was in

1239
01:13:55,280 --> 01:14:01,960
Montana was that because I built
everything by myself and the

1240
01:14:01,960 --> 01:14:06,400
land was fairly cheap, that I
ended up with no bills.

1241
01:14:06,480 --> 01:14:10,800
So, you know, how can we help?
That would be to, you know,

1242
01:14:10,800 --> 01:14:14,320
would be try to encourage, you
know, this isn't about these

1243
01:14:14,320 --> 01:14:16,960
communities aren't about
building big mansions.

1244
01:14:18,240 --> 01:14:19,920
Person wants to buy the land and
they're going to build it.

1245
01:14:19,920 --> 01:14:23,120
I can't, you know, I'm not going
to say don't do that at all.

1246
01:14:23,200 --> 01:14:28,840
I I don't once again, personal
tastes.

1247
01:14:29,480 --> 01:14:33,720
Build what you want to build,
but if, if they realize the

1248
01:14:33,720 --> 01:14:39,840
times that we're in and and that
let's say that we took somebody

1249
01:14:39,840 --> 01:14:47,840
who didn't have the means but
was willing to work for, you

1250
01:14:47,840 --> 01:14:50,720
know, let's say I, well, for
example, I'm building a little

1251
01:14:51,120 --> 01:14:55,480
10 by 16 tiny home right now, a
little log home out here on my

1252
01:14:55,480 --> 01:15:00,840
property.
The intent is to develop a, a

1253
01:15:00,840 --> 01:15:03,680
clientele and start selling tiny
homes.

1254
01:15:03,880 --> 01:15:06,960
I have a little sawmill and I
cut wood and bring it in and

1255
01:15:07,760 --> 01:15:12,160
make the beams and the, the
lumber to the build all sorts of

1256
01:15:12,360 --> 01:15:17,040
farm type buildings and homes.
So let's say that I had somebody

1257
01:15:17,040 --> 01:15:20,400
who came and said, you know,
Jeff, I, I think this is a great

1258
01:15:20,400 --> 01:15:21,760
idea.
I'd love to be a part of this.

1259
01:15:23,120 --> 01:15:25,800
What do I got to do?
And I say, well, what skills do

1260
01:15:25,800 --> 01:15:27,840
you have?
And we sit down and would you

1261
01:15:27,840 --> 01:15:32,400
like to learn how to, you know,
how to build greenhouses?

1262
01:15:32,400 --> 01:15:36,640
Would you like to learn how to
build, help me learn and, and

1263
01:15:37,120 --> 01:15:41,160
learn woodworking with log
cabins because I happen to have

1264
01:15:41,160 --> 01:15:43,680
a sawmill, not because log
cabins are better than straw

1265
01:15:43,680 --> 01:15:46,320
Bale.
I just happen to have a sawmill.

1266
01:15:47,000 --> 01:15:52,360
And so I would take that person
on as a, you know, and I have a

1267
01:15:52,360 --> 01:15:56,120
couple of cabins on the place
and this one is going to either

1268
01:15:56,120 --> 01:15:59,960
sell right away or I'll turn it
into a residence on my property

1269
01:16:00,480 --> 01:16:04,160
for someone like that.
And they can come and they can

1270
01:16:04,160 --> 01:16:08,320
help me and we'll figure out
what that means for wages and in

1271
01:16:08,320 --> 01:16:11,240
building other cabins and
learning how to do other

1272
01:16:11,240 --> 01:16:17,080
agrarian type ideals that would
then give them the knowledge to

1273
01:16:17,120 --> 01:16:21,400
help other people in this in the
community who then want those

1274
01:16:21,400 --> 01:16:24,320
services.
So, you know, let's say we teach

1275
01:16:24,320 --> 01:16:28,400
classes for a year and they work
with me on building a cabin and

1276
01:16:28,400 --> 01:16:32,240
we put aside, you know, pay them
some and put aside some to buy

1277
01:16:32,240 --> 01:16:34,720
their five acre parcel.
OK.

1278
01:16:34,960 --> 01:16:36,600
So that's how they would apply
to that.

1279
01:16:36,920 --> 01:16:39,120
End of a year or whatever I'm
throwing.

1280
01:16:39,120 --> 01:16:42,080
I'm not saying that's where it's
at, 'cause I don't have the I

1281
01:16:42,080 --> 01:16:43,760
don't know yet.
It will depend on how much we

1282
01:16:43,760 --> 01:16:46,720
pay for each parcel and what
that means and the amount of

1283
01:16:46,720 --> 01:16:48,520
time.
But you know, a place where a

1284
01:16:48,520 --> 01:16:52,440
person could come as literally
like, you know, an internship

1285
01:16:52,600 --> 01:16:55,280
where they, they come and they
live and they get, they have a

1286
01:16:55,280 --> 01:16:58,280
house and they, they don't have
to pay for where they stay

1287
01:16:58,280 --> 01:17:03,320
because they're giving their
labor to, to, And so their room

1288
01:17:03,320 --> 01:17:04,600
and board would be taken care
of.

1289
01:17:04,600 --> 01:17:08,520
And then at the end of a, a said
period of time, you know, they

1290
01:17:08,520 --> 01:17:10,760
certainly don't have to stay.
You can go off into the world

1291
01:17:10,760 --> 01:17:15,400
and do what you want, but you
might also want to take that

1292
01:17:15,400 --> 01:17:18,000
value and put it towards your 5
acres.

1293
01:17:18,720 --> 01:17:22,040
So now we figure out how to get
you a little tiny house on the

1294
01:17:22,040 --> 01:17:24,560
property so that you have a
place to live that doesn't have

1295
01:17:24,560 --> 01:17:27,920
a mortgage and you have a piece
of ground where you can raise

1296
01:17:27,920 --> 01:17:31,600
your own food.
And then not only that, the

1297
01:17:31,600 --> 01:17:35,120
neighbor down the road, you see,
you sell that lot and that and

1298
01:17:35,120 --> 01:17:38,320
you say, look, we've got Joe
over here who is skilled as

1299
01:17:38,320 --> 01:17:39,840
this.
And he does these things and he

1300
01:17:39,840 --> 01:17:42,760
knows how to raise, take care of
a greenhouse 'cause he learned

1301
01:17:42,760 --> 01:17:46,640
that while he was working here.
And, and he's been through these

1302
01:17:46,640 --> 01:17:49,280
classes that we are teaching.
I would, I would like to have a

1303
01:17:49,280 --> 01:17:51,760
school where all of these things
are, are taught.

1304
01:17:52,400 --> 01:17:57,480
And that person can then be
employed by the folks who really

1305
01:17:57,480 --> 01:17:59,520
want to have a turnkey
homestead.

1306
01:18:00,280 --> 01:18:02,920
And they say, you know, we're
not moving in for a couple of

1307
01:18:02,920 --> 01:18:06,640
years or, or until things get
really bad, but let's build that

1308
01:18:06,640 --> 01:18:09,840
greenhouse 'cause we love
growing our own veggies.

1309
01:18:10,480 --> 01:18:13,200
And let's do a, let's do one of
those wallapini underground

1310
01:18:13,200 --> 01:18:16,000
deals that Jeff's done before.
And let's figure out how we can,

1311
01:18:17,000 --> 01:18:20,040
we would like goats for milking,
you know.

1312
01:18:20,520 --> 01:18:23,080
And so we build him a barn.
And so he builds them a barn,

1313
01:18:23,400 --> 01:18:26,880
gets paid for his services
there, you know, for his time.

1314
01:18:28,080 --> 01:18:32,440
And, and then he decides, do you
want to milk goats every day and

1315
01:18:32,440 --> 01:18:36,120
night for these people and sell
them at the local thing or make

1316
01:18:36,120 --> 01:18:38,840
butter with it or make or make
soaps or whatever?

1317
01:18:38,880 --> 01:18:42,200
And, you know, and then they,
because they own it, would get a

1318
01:18:42,200 --> 01:18:44,920
percentage of those things, you
know, and they work out a

1319
01:18:44,920 --> 01:18:47,800
business arrangement and he
takes care of their homestead so

1320
01:18:47,800 --> 01:18:52,480
that when crap hits the fan and
they bug out, they pull up and

1321
01:18:52,480 --> 01:18:55,400
the greenhouse is growing and
goats are milking.

1322
01:18:55,400 --> 01:19:00,200
And the next morning he shows up
and for a week or two teaches

1323
01:19:00,200 --> 01:19:03,960
them how to run their homestead.
Or maybe they decide to keep him

1324
01:19:03,960 --> 01:19:06,040
on.
You know, they don't want him

1325
01:19:06,040 --> 01:19:08,320
out for Dang goats.
That's OK too, if they still

1326
01:19:08,320 --> 01:19:10,360
have a steady, steady stream of
income.

1327
01:19:10,760 --> 01:19:13,480
Right, right.
No, that, that, that makes

1328
01:19:13,480 --> 01:19:16,600
sense.
So, so these, these people would

1329
01:19:16,600 --> 01:19:19,680
be, you know, not necessarily
even skilled labor, right?

1330
01:19:19,680 --> 01:19:21,920
These are just people who
wouldn't mind coming out and

1331
01:19:21,920 --> 01:19:25,800
learning about the what, what it
would take to to homestead a

1332
01:19:25,800 --> 01:19:27,240
piece of property.
Is that right?

1333
01:19:27,680 --> 01:19:30,920
I think so.
I think that you know, and you

1334
01:19:30,920 --> 01:19:33,520
know, don't say they wouldn't be
skilled cause those are the old

1335
01:19:33,520 --> 01:19:35,360
skills.
Right, right.

1336
01:19:35,760 --> 01:19:37,280
Well, those.
Are Abraham skills?

1337
01:19:37,280 --> 01:19:39,640
Thank you very much.
They would be skilled after

1338
01:19:39,640 --> 01:19:40,480
right?
Yes.

1339
01:19:40,720 --> 01:19:42,640
Yes.
Coming to you, they may or may

1340
01:19:42,640 --> 01:19:44,360
not already have that you.
May not.

1341
01:19:44,360 --> 01:19:46,640
You wouldn't even have to have
that because these are skills

1342
01:19:46,640 --> 01:19:49,160
that you can learn and that I
think the Lord wished we'd

1343
01:19:49,160 --> 01:19:51,280
learned as kids.
Yeah.

1344
01:19:51,800 --> 01:19:56,560
I mean, to be a husbandman
requires a lot different things

1345
01:19:56,560 --> 01:20:00,080
than you know, than being a jet
pilot, but you can learn them

1346
01:20:00,080 --> 01:20:02,080
and anybody can learn them,
right.

1347
01:20:02,680 --> 01:20:05,040
How to take care of animals and
raise a garden.

1348
01:20:05,040 --> 01:20:09,200
And you know, and and there just
seems to be just seems to be

1349
01:20:09,200 --> 01:20:15,520
that all the things that that we
were supposed to learn got get

1350
01:20:15,520 --> 01:20:18,080
dealt a bad card in our society
is to.

1351
01:20:18,960 --> 01:20:21,080
Why would anybody want to be a
farmer?

1352
01:20:21,160 --> 01:20:24,360
You know, right.
There was a, there was a guy, I

1353
01:20:24,360 --> 01:20:27,160
can't remember his name, so this
is terrible, but there was a, a

1354
01:20:27,160 --> 01:20:33,680
paper that was written at BYU, I
think it's a master's paper that

1355
01:20:33,680 --> 01:20:38,920
was called agrarianism.
Agrarianism in the Mormon people

1356
01:20:39,680 --> 01:20:44,600
or the agrarian way of life and
the Mormon people and I, the guy

1357
01:20:44,600 --> 01:20:47,480
did a terrific job.
He's he's still a professor, I

1358
01:20:47,480 --> 01:20:51,240
believe in Texas at Austin, TX
and you kind of you could

1359
01:20:51,240 --> 01:20:54,720
probably find it online.
I found it several times, but it

1360
01:20:54,720 --> 01:20:57,920
was just a masterful work where
he took and showed what

1361
01:20:57,920 --> 01:21:02,600
happened, a timeline of how in
the, the mainstream church, we

1362
01:21:02,600 --> 01:21:07,360
went from being an agrarian
people to being an urban and

1363
01:21:07,360 --> 01:21:11,160
then a city people.
And how the brother tried and

1364
01:21:11,160 --> 01:21:15,920
tried and tried to stop it.
They even started a fund, much

1365
01:21:15,920 --> 01:21:18,720
like the perpetual immigration
fund to try to get people to go

1366
01:21:18,720 --> 01:21:22,080
back to the, to the country and
farm.

1367
01:21:22,880 --> 01:21:25,760
And they were giving money to
these, you know, but they

1368
01:21:25,760 --> 01:21:27,520
couldn't, they couldn't keep the
people from moving to the

1369
01:21:27,560 --> 01:21:32,000
cities.
And as much as they, as much as

1370
01:21:32,000 --> 01:21:35,400
they talked about it and
preached from the pulpit, it was

1371
01:21:35,400 --> 01:21:37,720
almost a lost cause.
The people were like, no, we

1372
01:21:37,720 --> 01:21:41,080
will not live the old ways.
Gotcha, gotcha.

1373
01:21:41,600 --> 01:21:46,080
OK, so those so the was it was
there another type of person

1374
01:21:46,080 --> 01:21:48,560
there or was was that pretty
much it the?

1375
01:21:49,120 --> 01:21:51,960
You know, I imagine there'll be
folks, you know, that that could

1376
01:21:51,960 --> 01:21:55,240
probably afford to come and buy
a parcel and and build something

1377
01:21:55,240 --> 01:21:56,880
that's ready to move in right
away.

1378
01:21:56,880 --> 01:22:00,240
Or, you know, that that's in the
in the mid range of that.

1379
01:22:00,720 --> 01:22:03,880
And it's possible that we could
take groups of people in the

1380
01:22:03,880 --> 01:22:08,080
beginning and, and, and put a
little tiny house in a little

1381
01:22:08,080 --> 01:22:11,360
barn and a little greenhouse on,
you know, to begin with on every

1382
01:22:11,360 --> 01:22:15,360
parcel, just as a way to give
work and train and teach, making

1383
01:22:15,360 --> 01:22:19,080
those parcels more valuable.
And then people who come along.

1384
01:22:19,520 --> 01:22:22,720
You know, I mean, we're not
talking the, the idea would be

1385
01:22:22,720 --> 01:22:27,840
to try to be, as you know, to,
to kind of scale down our, our

1386
01:22:27,920 --> 01:22:31,480
consumerism and our need for
extravagance.

1387
01:22:31,480 --> 01:22:32,880
Not that we have to live in
poverty.

1388
01:22:32,880 --> 01:22:37,920
We don't to have nice things,
but to, but to keep it simple.

1389
01:22:39,120 --> 01:22:41,360
And you know, I, I would not
want to dictate that.

1390
01:22:41,360 --> 01:22:45,160
But at the same time, if there's
a lot of folks now, you know,

1391
01:22:45,160 --> 01:22:48,760
this whole tiny house movement
is, is kind of a big deal 'cause

1392
01:22:48,760 --> 01:22:50,280
people just can't afford a real
house.

1393
01:22:51,280 --> 01:22:52,760
Is that the right word?
A real house?

1394
01:22:53,120 --> 01:22:55,800
I learned that shelter was way
different than I thought it was.

1395
01:22:56,120 --> 01:22:59,360
We lived in A to start with, you
know, and it was great.

1396
01:23:03,480 --> 01:23:07,520
We're, we're just so spoiled.
We're so spoiled in this society

1397
01:23:07,560 --> 01:23:10,480
and and it will be the undoing
of many of us.

1398
01:23:11,000 --> 01:23:13,520
No, no, you're, you're 100%
correct.

1399
01:23:13,960 --> 01:23:16,600
You're 100% correct.
I think it's already proving to

1400
01:23:16,600 --> 01:23:20,160
be that way.
OK, so let me ask you this

1401
01:23:20,160 --> 01:23:25,040
question and then I want to move
on to some more philosophy of

1402
01:23:25,040 --> 01:23:30,160
this whole thing, I think.
But inevitably, when you gather

1403
01:23:30,160 --> 01:23:37,280
people together, you need a way
of people have to know how to

1404
01:23:37,280 --> 01:23:43,480
govern themselves, right?
How do you, how do you propose

1405
01:23:43,480 --> 01:23:46,320
that gets taken care of, right?
Because you don't want complete

1406
01:23:46,320 --> 01:23:50,520
anarchy out there, right?
You, you got to, you got to

1407
01:23:50,520 --> 01:23:57,560
figure out some sort of of
structure, so to speak, to, to

1408
01:23:57,560 --> 01:24:01,760
keep everybody from, from kind
of crapping on their neighbor.

1409
01:24:02,120 --> 01:24:03,640
How?
How do you do that?

1410
01:24:04,560 --> 01:24:09,000
Well, interestingly enough, you
know, we have a plethora of laws

1411
01:24:09,480 --> 01:24:14,640
in the world and in, you know,
our society still has the

1412
01:24:14,640 --> 01:24:17,120
remnants of the laws of
civility.

1413
01:24:17,120 --> 01:24:21,920
You know, if you do bad things,
the sheriff can still come out

1414
01:24:21,920 --> 01:24:25,320
and take care of it.
The part of the problem is we

1415
01:24:25,320 --> 01:24:28,000
have too many of those, you
know, they're, they're gotten

1416
01:24:28,000 --> 01:24:30,440
too picky.
So I don't think it's a matter

1417
01:24:30,440 --> 01:24:34,760
that, you know, anywhere I live
in South Dakota, you know,

1418
01:24:34,760 --> 01:24:39,560
we're, we're in a county that,
that still, you know, allows you

1419
01:24:39,560 --> 01:24:43,440
to build something without all
the mess that you would go

1420
01:24:43,440 --> 01:24:46,400
through, say in, in another
state or another in a city area,

1421
01:24:46,760 --> 01:24:50,720
You know, even 2 counties over
from me where, where Rapid City

1422
01:24:50,720 --> 01:24:54,920
is their, their subdivision laws
and everything else are much

1423
01:24:54,920 --> 01:24:58,400
more strict.
But as far as gathering of

1424
01:24:58,400 --> 01:25:02,440
people together, you know, we
still have the structure in the

1425
01:25:02,480 --> 01:25:07,400
in, in South Dakota that is
meant to maintain law and order.

1426
01:25:08,520 --> 01:25:14,400
And if people get along here,
you know, we haven't seen a lot

1427
01:25:14,400 --> 01:25:18,360
of the things that in in our
little town that you would see

1428
01:25:18,360 --> 01:25:19,280
elsewhere.
I don't know.

1429
01:25:19,280 --> 01:25:22,760
And I hope that doesn't change.
But it's, it's a lot different

1430
01:25:22,760 --> 01:25:25,600
in the country than it is in the
cities.

1431
01:25:26,000 --> 01:25:29,520
And as far as behavior is
concerned, you know, we still

1432
01:25:29,520 --> 01:25:33,640
have laws that that are kept by
a sheriff who's elected.

1433
01:25:33,640 --> 01:25:36,560
And those are all good things.
They're all old remnants of a

1434
01:25:36,560 --> 01:25:38,760
system that was meant to be, you
know?

1435
01:25:39,360 --> 01:25:41,200
Right.
You know, there's another

1436
01:25:41,200 --> 01:25:44,600
mechanism when it comes to
subdivisions that I think could

1437
01:25:44,600 --> 01:25:46,760
be helpful for you here, and
that's called covenants,

1438
01:25:46,760 --> 01:25:49,280
Conditions and restrictions,
CCN, Rs.

1439
01:25:49,680 --> 01:25:54,600
Good old CCN Rs, yeah.
Now typically in most modern day

1440
01:25:54,600 --> 01:25:58,120
subdivisions are used for stupid
things like you can't leave your

1441
01:25:58,120 --> 01:26:01,640
trash can sitting at the curb
for a certain amount of time or

1442
01:26:01,640 --> 01:26:03,320
you got to have your garage door
closed.

1443
01:26:03,920 --> 01:26:09,200
But I have seen a few.
Not exactly what you're talking

1444
01:26:09,200 --> 01:26:13,280
about, but things that are kind
of close right where it was a

1445
01:26:13,280 --> 01:26:15,680
definite idea.
You weren't just purchasing a

1446
01:26:15,680 --> 01:26:19,480
piece of ground, you were
purchasing almost a way of life,

1447
01:26:19,720 --> 01:26:23,600
right?
And so like you could do a lot

1448
01:26:23,600 --> 01:26:28,720
through those CCNRS because
they're going to to kind of line

1449
01:26:28,720 --> 01:26:32,560
out how things go, right?
Like you want.

1450
01:26:32,920 --> 01:26:36,280
And you want to talk about the
reverse end of CCNRS, right?

1451
01:26:36,280 --> 01:26:39,400
Where they could be good, but
some of them are bad.

1452
01:26:39,720 --> 01:26:42,800
If you like go up to Park City
or Deer Park or any of those

1453
01:26:42,800 --> 01:26:46,720
places in Utah that are, you
know, just resort hubs,

1454
01:26:46,720 --> 01:26:50,680
basically there's some that say
you can't live there year round,

1455
01:26:50,680 --> 01:26:52,960
right?
Like this only can be a vacation

1456
01:26:52,960 --> 01:26:56,440
home, but your vacation home has
to be well, in excess of

1457
01:26:56,440 --> 01:27:01,040
$1,000,000, right?
You could do something kind of

1458
01:27:01,040 --> 01:27:04,560
similar in the opposite
direction to, to get the results

1459
01:27:04,560 --> 01:27:07,520
that, that you want, so to
speak, or that you desire to, to

1460
01:27:07,520 --> 01:27:09,520
attract the kind of people you
want.

1461
01:27:10,560 --> 01:27:15,160
So that's that's something that
can be looked at there, I think.

1462
01:27:15,920 --> 01:27:18,640
I think that if you know, I
think this is probably going to

1463
01:27:19,360 --> 01:27:22,360
most likely go in a direction
where there will be groups of

1464
01:27:22,360 --> 01:27:26,120
individuals who would, and, and
this is naturally probably

1465
01:27:26,120 --> 01:27:30,040
appropriate group, either family
groups, church groups who are

1466
01:27:30,040 --> 01:27:34,600
going to want to do something
with, with people they already

1467
01:27:34,600 --> 01:27:37,640
know.
And, and I think that's great

1468
01:27:37,720 --> 01:27:40,480
because the more, you know, and
the more you're willing to get

1469
01:27:40,480 --> 01:27:44,040
along, the more chance you have
of creating a cohesive

1470
01:27:44,640 --> 01:27:47,280
community.
And so under those

1471
01:27:47,280 --> 01:27:50,360
circumstances, you know, I mean,
I think I'm going to start, you

1472
01:27:50,360 --> 01:27:53,080
know, I want to build something
for my children and something

1473
01:27:53,080 --> 01:27:57,200
for my children's children, you
know, and people that I know and

1474
01:27:57,200 --> 01:27:59,840
individuals that come along.
And I would also like to very

1475
01:27:59,840 --> 01:28:03,640
much help the remnant.
So this is a part of a lot of

1476
01:28:03,640 --> 01:28:07,280
this is an outgrowth of my idea,
but I can't also force that upon

1477
01:28:07,280 --> 01:28:11,560
other people as well.
If I with a 200 acre parcel and

1478
01:28:11,560 --> 01:28:17,800
I want to, you know, make, you
know, 40 five acre lots and, and

1479
01:28:17,800 --> 01:28:21,040
I decided to put half of those
into individuals who are willing

1480
01:28:21,040 --> 01:28:24,160
to work and learn and help the
other, you know, and, and they

1481
01:28:24,160 --> 01:28:26,680
end up with a parcel that's paid
off and a home that they can

1482
01:28:26,680 --> 01:28:30,040
live in and they have no bills
like I did in Montana and so on

1483
01:28:30,040 --> 01:28:32,640
and so forth.
And we put in solar and other

1484
01:28:32,640 --> 01:28:35,640
types of things, plus wood
stoves and other types of things

1485
01:28:35,640 --> 01:28:38,120
so that they're more
self-sufficient even no matter

1486
01:28:38,120 --> 01:28:43,160
what happens to the grid.
Now they don't have to make 4000

1487
01:28:43,160 --> 01:28:46,560
a month to live.
They might get on 500 bucks a

1488
01:28:46,560 --> 01:28:49,280
month, especially if they're
raising their own food.

1489
01:28:50,160 --> 01:28:53,480
Now they're free now we're now
the community's free to what?

1490
01:28:53,480 --> 01:28:54,960
Guess what?
Help each other if somebody has

1491
01:28:54,960 --> 01:28:58,040
a problem or if their barn burns
down or you know, you know, I

1492
01:28:58,040 --> 01:29:00,600
got to go to work.
No, you, you go help your

1493
01:29:00,720 --> 01:29:05,320
neighbor.
But but my thoughts are where CC

1494
01:29:05,320 --> 01:29:07,080
and Rs and things like that are
concerned.

1495
01:29:07,880 --> 01:29:11,960
You know, I think that the, the
groups and the people, I mean,

1496
01:29:11,960 --> 01:29:14,960
you could start, if nobody, I
could start to try to build 1

1497
01:29:14,960 --> 01:29:16,120
and say, here's what I'm
thinking.

1498
01:29:16,720 --> 01:29:19,120
But what if another family group
came along and said, Hey, I

1499
01:29:19,120 --> 01:29:23,400
have, you know, I got probably
15 potential families looking

1500
01:29:23,400 --> 01:29:25,360
for a place.
What can you find us and help us

1501
01:29:25,560 --> 01:29:29,720
get into?
I think it'd be great to say,

1502
01:29:30,200 --> 01:29:31,520
what do you guys want to build?
How?

1503
01:29:32,440 --> 01:29:34,760
Do you how do?
You, how do you, what kind of CC

1504
01:29:34,760 --> 01:29:37,160
and Rs do you want?
I don't care.

1505
01:29:37,240 --> 01:29:39,120
You make it see how it see what
works.

1506
01:29:39,120 --> 01:29:42,280
You know, sit down with your
family and with your, with your

1507
01:29:42,280 --> 01:29:45,880
family group and pray about it
and ask the Lord what's

1508
01:29:45,880 --> 01:29:48,200
appropriate.
You guys find out.

1509
01:29:48,560 --> 01:29:52,120
You know, I, I really think he
wants us to figure things out,

1510
01:29:52,240 --> 01:29:56,120
this stuff for ourselves by
doing it.

1511
01:29:56,520 --> 01:29:59,240
And we're a day late and a
dollar short, but but we still

1512
01:29:59,240 --> 01:30:01,320
have a hope, I think.
Right.

1513
01:30:01,320 --> 01:30:04,800
Well, I, I do look and, and I
think you're right, 'cause,

1514
01:30:04,800 --> 01:30:09,160
look, sometimes we speak of
Mormonism and, and we feel like

1515
01:30:09,160 --> 01:30:12,040
it's a monolith and it's really
not, right?

1516
01:30:12,040 --> 01:30:16,760
As I've dove into all sorts of
Mormon expressions, if you will,

1517
01:30:18,120 --> 01:30:19,880
they're all a little bit
different, right?

1518
01:30:19,880 --> 01:30:22,760
And what works for one group
might not work for another.

1519
01:30:23,280 --> 01:30:26,040
And so it's going to have to be
one of those things a lot like

1520
01:30:26,040 --> 01:30:29,520
you were just saying, it's going
to have to be tailor made to the

1521
01:30:29,520 --> 01:30:35,640
person starting it.
But you, yeah, there there's got

1522
01:30:35,640 --> 01:30:40,160
to be some structure in place to
kind of keep things from from

1523
01:30:40,160 --> 01:30:42,960
blowing up, right?
A way to resolve issues and

1524
01:30:42,960 --> 01:30:46,760
those sorts of things.
And and maybe that's just me

1525
01:30:46,760 --> 01:30:49,960
because I'm jaded from years of,
you know, watching people fight

1526
01:30:49,960 --> 01:30:53,800
over a foot, a foot strip of
ground and, you know, everything

1527
01:30:53,800 --> 01:30:55,440
else.
I've just seen it too often to

1528
01:30:55,440 --> 01:31:00,600
see human nature begin to, to,
to cause things to deteriorate a

1529
01:31:00,600 --> 01:31:04,840
little bit if, if there's not
some sort of governor that's not

1530
01:31:04,840 --> 01:31:09,760
like governor in terms of like a
state governor, something to, to

1531
01:31:09,760 --> 01:31:14,600
kind of allow that steam to get
blown off and problems to be.

1532
01:31:14,600 --> 01:31:17,080
Resolved.
You know, ultimately, when you

1533
01:31:17,080 --> 01:31:20,160
think about, you know, the
structures that we have in the

1534
01:31:20,160 --> 01:31:24,400
church and, and in history, you
know, the most basic.

1535
01:31:24,400 --> 01:31:26,360
That's why I kind of bring up
family groups.

1536
01:31:26,640 --> 01:31:31,640
You know, family groups get
along often times because

1537
01:31:32,040 --> 01:31:35,160
there's a natural governance,
right?

1538
01:31:35,160 --> 01:31:39,520
You know, you've got the grandpa
and and then you got his sons

1539
01:31:39,520 --> 01:31:43,280
who are old enough to treat
grandpa good, you know, and they

1540
01:31:43,280 --> 01:31:45,760
basically, if they're going to
want to do something together,

1541
01:31:45,760 --> 01:31:48,200
they can put something together.
And there is a governance

1542
01:31:48,200 --> 01:31:50,600
because they're family, they
live together and they figured

1543
01:31:50,600 --> 01:31:56,280
out, you know, what mom and dad
say and how they feel and how

1544
01:31:56,280 --> 01:31:59,240
we're going to make it.
You know, I, I guess you'd call

1545
01:31:59,240 --> 01:32:03,840
it a patriarchal situation.
And of course the church has,

1546
01:32:03,840 --> 01:32:06,800
has varying groups of
patriarchal situations, you

1547
01:32:06,800 --> 01:32:09,600
know, throughout their history.
And you gather together these

1548
01:32:09,600 --> 01:32:15,160
and this and that and the other.
But so, you know, a ward family

1549
01:32:15,160 --> 01:32:17,920
in the church could, could
figure something like this out.

1550
01:32:18,240 --> 01:32:22,160
You know, they, you know, it's
difficult because they're taught

1551
01:32:22,160 --> 01:32:24,760
that they can't do this,
anything like this.

1552
01:32:24,800 --> 01:32:28,280
You know, it has to come from,
from the head and it hasn't yet

1553
01:32:28,280 --> 01:32:31,040
come down.
My prayer is that it would.

1554
01:32:31,560 --> 01:32:36,120
But but in the meantime, I think
we need to be anxiously engaged

1555
01:32:36,120 --> 01:32:39,160
in a good cause because our
country's falling apart.

1556
01:32:39,520 --> 01:32:43,680
Yeah, no, I I agree.
And and you know, you hit on

1557
01:32:43,680 --> 01:32:48,720
something else that I think
super important and I want to be

1558
01:32:48,720 --> 01:32:50,320
sensitive here.
I do know that there are

1559
01:32:50,320 --> 01:32:54,800
extenuating circumstances that,
that require this, but I don't

1560
01:32:54,800 --> 01:32:57,880
think it's as much as what we've
gotten used to as of late.

1561
01:32:58,000 --> 01:33:02,440
But it wasn't that long ago that
we didn't ship our elderly off

1562
01:33:02,440 --> 01:33:06,960
to a nursing home, right?
When mom and dad got too old,

1563
01:33:08,160 --> 01:33:11,520
they either came to live with
the kids or they lived close

1564
01:33:11,520 --> 01:33:14,040
enough that the kids could run
up and check on them.

1565
01:33:14,720 --> 01:33:20,600
And likewise, I, I think that
gosh, and, and, and this is the

1566
01:33:20,600 --> 01:33:25,480
part of the conversation I'm
most excited about having back

1567
01:33:25,480 --> 01:33:30,840
to this idea of, of being
detached from civilization or,

1568
01:33:30,880 --> 01:33:35,640
or not civilization, but
detached from, from, from what

1569
01:33:35,640 --> 01:33:40,160
has served humanity well and
quite frankly, divinely inspired

1570
01:33:40,160 --> 01:33:43,360
things, right.
In the old days, you know,

1571
01:33:43,760 --> 01:33:45,680
grandma and grandpa were close,
right?

1572
01:33:45,680 --> 01:33:48,360
So the kids would go over and
they would, they would hear

1573
01:33:48,360 --> 01:33:50,400
about how grandma and grandpa
survived.

1574
01:33:50,960 --> 01:33:54,120
And that's how those ideas were
passed down.

1575
01:33:54,120 --> 01:33:57,960
I mean, let's just be honest.
How many women do we know of

1576
01:33:57,960 --> 01:34:03,120
today that can still can?
I mean, as just a general rule,

1577
01:34:04,680 --> 01:34:07,760
I think you'd be pushing it to
say 10% of the population,

1578
01:34:08,040 --> 01:34:11,240
right?
That would know how to, how to

1579
01:34:11,240 --> 01:34:16,800
harvest, you know, a garden and
then can it and keep it for the

1580
01:34:16,800 --> 01:34:23,480
leaner times, right.
How many guys know how to go get

1581
01:34:23,480 --> 01:34:25,760
game?
How many guys know how to raise

1582
01:34:25,760 --> 01:34:28,320
an animal?
I again, I think you're down to

1583
01:34:28,320 --> 01:34:32,040
about 10% of modern day
population, at least within the

1584
01:34:32,040 --> 01:34:36,520
States, right?
It's funny.

1585
01:34:36,520 --> 01:34:41,240
I, I, I look around and I think
you know, and This is why I

1586
01:34:41,240 --> 01:34:43,600
don't go to pop parties a whole
bunch because I'm no fun.

1587
01:34:43,600 --> 01:34:50,160
But I, I start looking, I start,
I start looking at this and

1588
01:34:50,560 --> 01:34:54,600
it's, it's one of those things
where, where we've detached

1589
01:34:54,760 --> 01:34:59,840
from, from reality.
Our society kind of wants you to

1590
01:35:00,560 --> 01:35:05,560
that it's geared towards that.
And, and I just don't, you know,

1591
01:35:05,560 --> 01:35:10,320
we don't go, I mean, not only do
we not go farmer Mark, farmers

1592
01:35:10,320 --> 01:35:14,160
markets now are kind of a trendy
thing, right?

1593
01:35:14,840 --> 01:35:18,280
That was called the market in
the old days, right?

1594
01:35:19,560 --> 01:35:22,880
And, and now that's a trendy
thing to do because it's, you

1595
01:35:22,880 --> 01:35:28,000
know, whatever trendy, I guess.
But we've got to get back to

1596
01:35:28,000 --> 01:35:30,120
that, right?
There's a, we got to get back to

1597
01:35:30,120 --> 01:35:32,560
being local and we have to get
back to being real.

1598
01:35:33,160 --> 01:35:38,200
And until we do that, I think we
just continue to feed the beast,

1599
01:35:38,200 --> 01:35:42,200
so to speak, right?
We just keep, keep playing into

1600
01:35:42,200 --> 01:35:44,160
the system.
And that has definite

1601
01:35:44,160 --> 01:35:47,960
ramifications.
I, I look at kids today, right?

1602
01:35:50,760 --> 01:35:55,600
And that's spooky to me, to be
right, honest with you, the

1603
01:35:55,600 --> 01:35:59,600
amount of anxiety that that kids
have now is just not natural.

1604
01:35:59,600 --> 01:36:02,400
I mean, when you and I had a bad
day at school, we went home and

1605
01:36:02,400 --> 01:36:04,200
we forgot about it for a day or
so.

1606
01:36:05,120 --> 01:36:07,000
It's no longer the same way,
right?

1607
01:36:07,000 --> 01:36:11,000
I mean, now with, with
technology, the bullying that a

1608
01:36:11,000 --> 01:36:13,840
kid might receive at school, but
that's kind of following you

1609
01:36:13,840 --> 01:36:18,240
home now on your phone.
And there's, you know, that's

1610
01:36:18,240 --> 01:36:21,400
leading to some things that
quite frankly, I don't think

1611
01:36:21,400 --> 01:36:25,080
mankind was ever equipped or
should be equipped to deal with.

1612
01:36:25,080 --> 01:36:29,680
I, I, I think we're doing a lot
of unnatural things and it's

1613
01:36:29,680 --> 01:36:32,960
beginning to, to really come
back to bite us and we're just

1614
01:36:32,960 --> 01:36:36,560
now starting to see that.
You know, earlier we were

1615
01:36:36,560 --> 01:36:42,240
talking about a little bit about
Isaiah and how he said come out

1616
01:36:42,240 --> 01:36:44,280
of her.
Oh, you might people that you'd

1617
01:36:44,280 --> 01:36:48,080
be not partakers of her plagues.
What was it you're talking

1618
01:36:48,080 --> 01:36:50,480
about?
Are the are the plagues that are

1619
01:36:50,480 --> 01:36:53,360
manifest?
You know, we all love, you know,

1620
01:36:53,360 --> 01:36:56,360
from the time you're young, if
you lived in the country, you

1621
01:36:56,360 --> 01:36:59,920
wanted to get out and go to the
city and experience the fast

1622
01:36:59,920 --> 01:37:02,320
life.
That's what kids wanted wanted

1623
01:37:02,480 --> 01:37:09,520
away from the farm.
And you know, but the reality is

1624
01:37:09,520 --> 01:37:12,720
all of these things, you know, I
was taught from the time I was a

1625
01:37:12,720 --> 01:37:16,800
little kid that the adversary
wants to destroy.

1626
01:37:17,960 --> 01:37:22,440
You know if there is a devil and
I believe there is that it's his

1627
01:37:23,000 --> 01:37:26,160
for whatever reason he's angry,
he's mad, he's demented whatever

1628
01:37:26,240 --> 01:37:30,560
he wants to destroy the plan
that this earth was prevent

1629
01:37:30,560 --> 01:37:35,000
presented as as such which is
families the best the Lord knows

1630
01:37:35,000 --> 01:37:37,280
the best way to raise up a human
being and to teach them the

1631
01:37:37,280 --> 01:37:41,080
things they need to survive.
We'll call it salvation, if you

1632
01:37:41,080 --> 01:37:47,360
will, are learned best in a
family where, you know, we could

1633
01:37:47,360 --> 01:37:51,880
go on and on about this forever.
But all these things that we're

1634
01:37:51,880 --> 01:38:01,400
watching in our society are
designed typically to destroy

1635
01:38:01,720 --> 01:38:03,480
families.
If you if you sit back and look

1636
01:38:03,480 --> 01:38:07,760
at them, you cannot but admit
that that's not good.

1637
01:38:09,400 --> 01:38:11,480
Why was that?
You know, can there be goodness

1638
01:38:11,480 --> 01:38:13,120
in it?
Well, yeah, there might be

1639
01:38:13,120 --> 01:38:20,040
goodness in it at a certain
percentage, but it's toxic, it's

1640
01:38:20,040 --> 01:38:23,800
addictive, and it will
eventually kill your children or

1641
01:38:23,800 --> 01:38:28,160
you or me, you know.
And so I, I really think that

1642
01:38:28,160 --> 01:38:32,000
the Lord and his soft little,
you know, he, he loves to throw

1643
01:38:32,000 --> 01:38:36,080
out little 1 liners in the
scriptures like, you know, get

1644
01:38:36,080 --> 01:38:38,120
married and multiply and
replenish.

1645
01:38:39,840 --> 01:38:42,880
And we have no clue that you
know, that that is the essence

1646
01:38:42,880 --> 01:38:47,640
of this experience is to
perpetuate the plan of God by

1647
01:38:47,640 --> 01:38:49,040
having children and teaching
them.

1648
01:38:49,040 --> 01:38:52,600
And we learn in the process how
to be wise stewards over

1649
01:38:52,600 --> 01:38:54,640
children and ourselves.
And we don't really learn

1650
01:38:54,640 --> 01:38:57,120
anything till we're an adult and
a parent anyway.

1651
01:38:57,920 --> 01:39:04,320
So it's, it's really just this
master plan of, of heartache and

1652
01:39:04,320 --> 01:39:08,040
sorrow, laced with joy and
wonder.

1653
01:39:08,640 --> 01:39:13,960
And, and yet the adversary knows
that he can strip that away by

1654
01:39:13,960 --> 01:39:19,320
creating a society that that
models and yet undermines that

1655
01:39:19,320 --> 01:39:21,400
plan.
You know it.

1656
01:39:21,400 --> 01:39:24,960
It takes care of us and makes us
feel comfortable and leads us

1657
01:39:24,960 --> 01:39:27,400
into all these things that are
supposedly happy.

1658
01:39:27,400 --> 01:39:30,640
And at the same time, there is
no long lasting joy in them

1659
01:39:30,640 --> 01:39:34,360
because they're destructive and
they're, they're, they're an

1660
01:39:34,360 --> 01:39:39,560
abomination because they're the
counterfeit of the truth, which

1661
01:39:39,560 --> 01:39:43,800
is running to grandma's house,
which is 2 doors down and

1662
01:39:43,800 --> 01:39:46,800
sitting on her lap when you're a
little kid because she's still

1663
01:39:46,800 --> 01:39:48,960
there.
Right, Right.

1664
01:39:49,040 --> 01:39:51,400
And asking her what she did when
she was a kid.

1665
01:39:51,400 --> 01:39:55,000
And she says, oh, we used to go
out and, you know, and pluck the

1666
01:39:55,000 --> 01:39:58,240
goats when nobody was looking or
pluck the, the, the chickens,

1667
01:39:58,240 --> 01:40:00,640
you know, and make them run
around or get whatever.

1668
01:40:00,640 --> 01:40:03,120
You get these stories from your,
your ancestors.

1669
01:40:03,120 --> 01:40:06,320
It's just.
You know, that's where the joy

1670
01:40:06,320 --> 01:40:08,000
and the happiness of the whole
system is.

1671
01:40:08,000 --> 01:40:11,480
And so then the Lord along the
way says things like, well, look

1672
01:40:11,480 --> 01:40:15,880
for those old paths and you'll
find you'll find the good way.

1673
01:40:16,800 --> 01:40:19,200
Absolutely.
Leave me alone.

1674
01:40:19,200 --> 01:40:22,520
I'm going to move to the city
and get a real job where I can't

1675
01:40:22,520 --> 01:40:24,840
even follow the spirit.
If it talked to me, you know,

1676
01:40:24,840 --> 01:40:27,840
what would most people do if a
voice from heaven came to them

1677
01:40:28,040 --> 01:40:31,720
in the morning prayer and said,
I need you to go talk to your

1678
01:40:31,720 --> 01:40:35,840
neighbor at noon?
More than likely you would

1679
01:40:35,840 --> 01:40:39,000
probably go seek your doctor and
get a prescription for that.

1680
01:40:40,600 --> 01:40:42,960
And even if you believed it,
could you take off work?

1681
01:40:43,080 --> 01:40:45,920
Would you take off for a voice
in your head?

1682
01:40:46,560 --> 01:40:47,800
Right.
No, no.

1683
01:40:49,280 --> 01:40:53,400
So, you know, that's I know
that's weird, but I enjoy weird.

1684
01:40:53,920 --> 01:40:54,680
I live.
No, I don't.

1685
01:40:54,720 --> 01:40:57,840
I don't think it's weird.
Long enough to enjoy, you know,

1686
01:40:57,840 --> 01:41:02,880
the the word weird, original
meaning of the word weird was

1687
01:41:02,920 --> 01:41:05,400
was almost along with the
meaning of the word amazing.

1688
01:41:05,400 --> 01:41:08,640
You know, it was a description
of the ways of God.

1689
01:41:09,160 --> 01:41:15,320
And so I, yeah, I embrace it as
as something that's that I've

1690
01:41:15,320 --> 01:41:17,640
experienced and it is weird and
I like it.

1691
01:41:18,080 --> 01:41:20,120
Yeah, well, you can call me
weird.

1692
01:41:20,400 --> 01:41:23,080
We're we're just doing things
that aren't natural, right.

1693
01:41:23,120 --> 01:41:28,000
I mean, look, the amount of
time, why am I get in so much

1694
01:41:28,000 --> 01:41:33,320
trouble, the amount of time a
kid spends in school now, that's

1695
01:41:33,320 --> 01:41:36,440
not natural.
That's just not natural, right?

1696
01:41:36,880 --> 01:41:40,200
If you look at the, if you look
at a normal school day back when

1697
01:41:40,200 --> 01:41:43,120
this, when we were first
starting things, it's 4 hours

1698
01:41:43,120 --> 01:41:47,480
long, right, tops.
And sometimes it wasn't even

1699
01:41:47,480 --> 01:41:50,760
every day, right?
But you went back home to your

1700
01:41:50,760 --> 01:41:52,280
parents where your parents
raised you.

1701
01:41:52,360 --> 01:41:54,800
You went to school to get just
an education.

1702
01:41:55,960 --> 01:41:59,480
The teacher wasn't there
instilling morals and values.

1703
01:41:59,480 --> 01:42:01,800
For the most part.
They assumed you got that before

1704
01:42:01,800 --> 01:42:07,720
you ever came to school.
But you know, and likewise for

1705
01:42:07,720 --> 01:42:09,480
adults.
I mean, we're, we're crammed

1706
01:42:09,480 --> 01:42:13,440
into cubicles now, right?
And that's not healthy.

1707
01:42:13,480 --> 01:42:16,720
I don't care what anyone says.
I mean, there was a, there was,

1708
01:42:16,720 --> 01:42:21,120
there was a very interesting
stat when COVID was happening

1709
01:42:21,720 --> 01:42:25,600
that an overwhelming majority of
people that were hospitalized,

1710
01:42:25,600 --> 01:42:28,800
not all, I want to, you know,
again, this is a generalization,

1711
01:42:29,280 --> 01:42:31,960
but the vast majority of people
who ended up in the hospital

1712
01:42:31,960 --> 01:42:34,960
with COVID were vitamin D
deficiency, right?

1713
01:42:34,960 --> 01:42:37,400
Well, where's the biggest source
of vitamin D we get?

1714
01:42:37,400 --> 01:42:42,240
It's from the sun, right?
And and so that tells you that,

1715
01:42:42,240 --> 01:42:45,000
hey, we're doing some things
that aren't conducive to the

1716
01:42:45,000 --> 01:42:50,200
human experience.
And, you know, people are now

1717
01:42:50,200 --> 01:42:53,360
just a cog in the wheel of where
wherever they're at.

1718
01:42:53,360 --> 01:42:58,520
And that tends to be detrimental
to our physical health, our

1719
01:42:58,520 --> 01:43:00,160
emotional health, our spiritual
health.

1720
01:43:00,160 --> 01:43:03,760
I mean, the last few years have
been weird because I've

1721
01:43:03,760 --> 01:43:07,080
rethought everything that I
thought was normal, right?

1722
01:43:07,480 --> 01:43:13,200
And what I'm discovering is that
normal isn't so normal Any, you

1723
01:43:13,200 --> 01:43:15,560
know it.
It's not normal in the grand

1724
01:43:15,560 --> 01:43:19,520
scheme of things, in the vast
breath of human existence.

1725
01:43:20,600 --> 01:43:25,080
What we're doing now is
relatively new and we haven't

1726
01:43:25,080 --> 01:43:31,200
yet began to understand the the
ramifications of that, right?

1727
01:43:31,200 --> 01:43:34,280
We, we see it, we know that
something's wrong, right?

1728
01:43:34,280 --> 01:43:41,240
Why is there mass, you know,
epidemics of, of, you know, not

1729
01:43:41,240 --> 01:43:43,920
being healthy, right?
I mean, things like I read a

1730
01:43:43,920 --> 01:43:47,600
study here the other day.
I should say I listened to it.

1731
01:43:47,960 --> 01:43:50,480
I was listening to a book on
tape when I was at the gym

1732
01:43:51,120 --> 01:43:55,640
inaudible that talked about like
the average American male now

1733
01:43:55,640 --> 01:43:59,920
has half the testosterone his
his grandfather had right?

1734
01:43:59,920 --> 01:44:03,160
What what is happening?
And until I think we start

1735
01:44:03,160 --> 01:44:07,040
asking some really strong
questions, we're not going to

1736
01:44:07,040 --> 01:44:10,080
get the right answer.
I don't think the answer is

1737
01:44:10,080 --> 01:44:13,720
going and taking a needle every
whatever it is to get your

1738
01:44:13,720 --> 01:44:16,320
testosterone back up.
I think the answer is probably

1739
01:44:16,320 --> 01:44:19,880
like, OK, well let's look at and
see how we're living and then

1740
01:44:19,880 --> 01:44:24,000
make a determination from there
and start prescribing some of

1741
01:44:24,000 --> 01:44:26,640
these old things, which is what
I found so fascinating about

1742
01:44:26,640 --> 01:44:30,560
your plan.
But did you ever, did you ever

1743
01:44:30,560 --> 01:44:34,960
read any of any of the works of
Weston Price?

1744
01:44:35,720 --> 01:44:37,520
You're familiar.
Nope.

1745
01:44:38,520 --> 01:44:44,120
He was a doctor, a dentist in
the, I think he was born in the

1746
01:44:45,200 --> 01:44:49,960
1860s and practiced through the,
you know, became a, a dentist in

1747
01:44:49,960 --> 01:44:55,720
Ohio, I believe.
And, and he recognized through

1748
01:44:55,720 --> 01:45:01,000
his practice, he was taken by by
his observation that people with

1749
01:45:01,000 --> 01:45:07,840
cavities also seem to have a
high incidence of degenerative

1750
01:45:07,840 --> 01:45:09,320
disease.
OK.

1751
01:45:10,240 --> 01:45:13,440
And so it really drove him to
find out why.

1752
01:45:13,440 --> 01:45:16,560
And he he quit his practice
early and he and his wife bought

1753
01:45:16,560 --> 01:45:18,800
one of the first cameras and
went around the world looking

1754
01:45:18,800 --> 01:45:23,160
for groups of people who did not
have cavities.

1755
01:45:24,160 --> 01:45:28,240
OK.
To see whether they also did not

1756
01:45:28,240 --> 01:45:30,320
have degenerative disease.
OK.

1757
01:45:31,400 --> 01:45:35,120
And, and he started this in
about I think he went from 1829

1758
01:45:35,120 --> 01:45:36,760
to 39.
Anyway, he was out there for

1759
01:45:36,760 --> 01:45:42,040
like 10 years and, and his study
when he was finished with

1760
01:45:42,040 --> 01:45:44,560
pictures, you know, cameras had
just kind of come into their

1761
01:45:44,560 --> 01:45:46,000
own.
He was taking pictures and he

1762
01:45:46,000 --> 01:45:51,600
found like 14 different cultures
who had no cavities throughout

1763
01:45:51,600 --> 01:45:54,760
their life as a culture.
And they also never brushed

1764
01:45:54,760 --> 01:45:59,000
their teeth.
They were all, they were all

1765
01:45:59,000 --> 01:46:03,160
indigenous people.
Well, they were all indigenous

1766
01:46:03,160 --> 01:46:09,800
peoples and who lived outside of
the influence of Western food

1767
01:46:10,440 --> 01:46:13,440
and medicine.
So this was in the 8, you know,

1768
01:46:13,440 --> 01:46:18,840
in the, in the 19, let's see
1920s, twenty 920 through 29 or

1769
01:46:18,840 --> 01:46:22,320
something.
And some of those cultures were

1770
01:46:22,320 --> 01:46:24,440
the Eskimos, some of them were
the Indian.

1771
01:46:24,440 --> 01:46:25,760
You know, there was an Indian
tribe.

1772
01:46:25,760 --> 01:46:33,480
There was culture in Africa and
and he found out, you know that

1773
01:46:33,880 --> 01:46:36,880
Swedish if you went far enough
back into the Alps where the

1774
01:46:36,880 --> 01:46:40,880
roads quit.
Then he found indigenous Swedes

1775
01:46:41,360 --> 01:46:45,960
who were not eating white sugar,
white flour, processed foods,

1776
01:46:45,960 --> 01:46:51,720
canned foods.
OK, notice that these folks had

1777
01:46:51,720 --> 01:46:54,120
many things in common and I
can't remember all of them, but

1778
01:46:54,120 --> 01:46:58,800
they all had like 5 different 5
or 6 different things in common

1779
01:46:58,800 --> 01:47:01,400
in their diets, though their
diets were vastly different.

1780
01:47:02,200 --> 01:47:07,880
OK.
They all shared animal fats as a

1781
01:47:07,880 --> 01:47:11,960
source of natural fats in in
their diet.

1782
01:47:14,240 --> 01:47:16,960
They all had, you know, meats of
course of some sort.

1783
01:47:17,600 --> 01:47:24,000
They all relied on primarily
probably because to to keep

1784
01:47:24,000 --> 01:47:26,720
their foods from spoiling, such
as sauerkraut.

1785
01:47:27,360 --> 01:47:34,640
They all had some form of
fermented foods in their in

1786
01:47:34,640 --> 01:47:38,000
their diet, so they probably
didn't realize it, but they were

1787
01:47:38,000 --> 01:47:42,000
getting all their gut flora
recharged in the winter time as

1788
01:47:42,000 --> 01:47:43,840
they ate the stuff that they
were preserving.

1789
01:47:45,760 --> 01:47:47,400
You know, they didn't have to
know what it was simple.

1790
01:47:47,400 --> 01:47:51,280
It's how they provided their
food without refrigeration to

1791
01:47:51,280 --> 01:47:55,200
last anyway.
So and so it goes on, you know,

1792
01:47:55,200 --> 01:47:58,440
and so he created a foundation
which is flourishing today,

1793
01:47:58,440 --> 01:48:00,640
even.
And a lot of the science that he

1794
01:48:00,640 --> 01:48:05,640
developed has is now coming into
the forefront through, you know,

1795
01:48:05,640 --> 01:48:07,640
different diets that are proving
themselves.

1796
01:48:08,960 --> 01:48:11,000
But it's called the Weston A
Price Foundation.

1797
01:48:11,120 --> 01:48:14,160
But the reality is they were
just living off the land simply

1798
01:48:14,640 --> 01:48:19,200
in whatever form they found it,
where they lived, in whatever

1799
01:48:19,440 --> 01:48:22,640
place on the earth they lived.
Even the Eskimos fell into that

1800
01:48:22,640 --> 01:48:24,200
category.
Right.

1801
01:48:25,320 --> 01:48:28,960
And but these people had full
sets of teeth that they never

1802
01:48:28,960 --> 01:48:32,600
lost and their their jaw
structure was even more fuller.

1803
01:48:32,600 --> 01:48:36,240
So none of their teeth were
crowded, nor did they need, you

1804
01:48:36,240 --> 01:48:39,600
know, did it appear as if their
teeth were crowded or misshapen

1805
01:48:39,600 --> 01:48:43,320
or out of place.
And he found that if he went

1806
01:48:43,320 --> 01:48:45,440
into, he went into the Alps and
he dealt with some of these

1807
01:48:45,440 --> 01:48:48,880
people and he studied their
children who had moved to town

1808
01:48:48,960 --> 01:48:51,520
20 years earlier to get married
and have children and work in

1809
01:48:51,520 --> 01:48:54,840
town.
And their children had smaller

1810
01:48:54,840 --> 01:49:00,160
jaws and crowded teeth.
And he took the families back or

1811
01:49:00,160 --> 01:49:03,520
followed a family back and
studied what happened with a

1812
01:49:03,520 --> 01:49:06,840
year or two later when they had
new children, their jaws were

1813
01:49:06,840 --> 01:49:11,400
fully formed with perfect teeth
because they were back on arm

1814
01:49:11,400 --> 01:49:16,440
eating the proper foods.
And so that was, that was what 3

1815
01:49:16,440 --> 01:49:19,160
generations from, you know, that
was 100 years ago.

1816
01:49:19,160 --> 01:49:23,720
So we were almost 4 generations
of people and the reality of

1817
01:49:23,720 --> 01:49:29,200
living a diet that is opposite
to what God provided and what

1818
01:49:29,200 --> 01:49:34,720
it's done to humanity itself in
our health, our well-being, our

1819
01:49:34,720 --> 01:49:39,120
mental status, our diseases,
our, our ability to think

1820
01:49:39,120 --> 01:49:45,000
properly, our ability to behave,
the presence of certain

1821
01:49:45,040 --> 01:49:49,080
abnormalities that we've, that
we experienced that create

1822
01:49:49,080 --> 01:49:54,480
social disorders and interesting
things in our life are rampant.

1823
01:49:55,120 --> 01:49:58,840
And it's, it could you, could
you trace it back to the fact

1824
01:49:58,840 --> 01:50:01,360
that we moved to the city?
Right.

1825
01:50:01,600 --> 01:50:03,160
No, I think, I think.
Saying.

1826
01:50:04,760 --> 01:50:08,120
I think you absolutely, I think
you absolutely can.

1827
01:50:08,120 --> 01:50:11,680
And, you know, look, I think
we're foolish if we think this

1828
01:50:11,680 --> 01:50:14,000
stuff didn't creep into
Mormonism, right?

1829
01:50:15,840 --> 01:50:16,600
We.
Embraced it.

1830
01:50:16,880 --> 01:50:20,720
You know who Joshua Erickson is?
Absolutely good friend.

1831
01:50:21,120 --> 01:50:24,840
So Josh, Josh has been on my
podcast several times, I want to

1832
01:50:24,840 --> 01:50:29,920
say 5 or 6 times and he, he did
an episode with me that talked

1833
01:50:29,920 --> 01:50:35,160
about the word of wisdom, right?
And what was originally put down

1834
01:50:35,400 --> 01:50:38,280
in the Word of Wisdom,
punctuation wise versus what was

1835
01:50:38,280 --> 01:50:39,960
changed?
Wait for it.

1836
01:50:40,400 --> 01:50:41,720
Heber, J.
Grant a little comma.

1837
01:50:42,160 --> 01:50:45,640
Yeah, yeah, a little comma and
all of a sudden that changes

1838
01:50:45,640 --> 01:50:48,280
everything, right and.
Put that in there.

1839
01:50:49,280 --> 01:50:53,840
That would be Heber J Grant.
No, but that's what that's what

1840
01:50:54,000 --> 01:50:56,520
Joseph Joseph F Smith said when
he saw it.

1841
01:50:56,960 --> 01:50:58,720
Who put that in there?
Right.

1842
01:51:01,000 --> 01:51:03,640
He had no idea I got snuck in
without his approval.

1843
01:51:03,920 --> 01:51:05,160
Right, right.
But.

1844
01:51:05,920 --> 01:51:10,640
It recognized comma.
Yep, but it was all cause 'cause

1845
01:51:10,640 --> 01:51:13,200
that changes how that reads
dramatically, right?

1846
01:51:13,440 --> 01:51:15,280
So you.
Totally.

1847
01:51:15,720 --> 01:51:18,920
Cause 'cause you go back, you,
you were talking about animal

1848
01:51:18,920 --> 01:51:23,400
fats, right, right, right there.
There is some interesting

1849
01:51:23,800 --> 01:51:28,960
history now that's been done on
sclerosis of the arteries,

1850
01:51:28,960 --> 01:51:32,600
right?
Clogged arteries and forever

1851
01:51:32,600 --> 01:51:35,880
we've been told, well, that's
due to animal fats, right?

1852
01:51:37,200 --> 01:51:41,800
The first study that was
produced actually came up with,

1853
01:51:42,360 --> 01:51:45,280
no, it was processed sugar and
flours that we're doing it

1854
01:51:45,880 --> 01:51:51,600
right.
And what you find is that once

1855
01:51:51,600 --> 01:51:55,040
you get rid of the processed
sugars, the processed flowers,

1856
01:51:56,720 --> 01:52:00,680
all the sudden a lot of that
stuff goes away, right?

1857
01:52:01,360 --> 01:52:06,040
And it's, it's creeped into
Mormonism and to the point that,

1858
01:52:06,440 --> 01:52:08,920
look, I'll be honest, there's,
there's even certain

1859
01:52:08,920 --> 01:52:12,320
fundamentalists that I've met
that have went all vegan or

1860
01:52:12,320 --> 01:52:15,840
vegetarian because they think
that's what the word of wisdom

1861
01:52:15,840 --> 01:52:20,280
says, right?
And so it's one of those things,

1862
01:52:20,280 --> 01:52:25,560
right, where you have to
question to a degree, kind of

1863
01:52:25,560 --> 01:52:28,680
everything you've been taught up
to this point, right?

1864
01:52:28,680 --> 01:52:31,840
And then be willing to take a
good hard look at things and

1865
01:52:31,840 --> 01:52:33,680
say, OK, where's things really
lie?

1866
01:52:34,040 --> 01:52:38,680
And are we really doing things
to the the way that the Lord

1867
01:52:38,680 --> 01:52:42,040
prescribed or did man get in
there and fumble with those as

1868
01:52:42,040 --> 01:52:47,040
well?
I know that that, you know, as

1869
01:52:47,040 --> 01:52:52,760
you were alluding to this idea
of well, just move into the

1870
01:52:52,760 --> 01:52:55,800
city, the church largely
embraced a lot of that as well,

1871
01:52:55,800 --> 01:52:58,960
right, like.
Well, they created a city.

1872
01:52:58,960 --> 01:53:01,120
They didn't, you know, in the
beginning that wasn't their

1873
01:53:01,120 --> 01:53:04,520
intent, although they knew there
would be a big city there, you

1874
01:53:04,520 --> 01:53:06,760
know, but it just grew up around
them.

1875
01:53:06,760 --> 01:53:09,520
And as the people started to
move to Salt Lake, the brethren

1876
01:53:09,520 --> 01:53:12,640
tried to stop them.
They they had, you know when

1877
01:53:12,640 --> 01:53:14,800
that's what I'm saying, that
little paper that got put out

1878
01:53:14,800 --> 01:53:19,640
was so and, and you know, when
it really happened, 1890

1879
01:53:21,600 --> 01:53:23,160
interesting.
Yeah.

1880
01:53:23,160 --> 01:53:26,760
Some of the talks that were
coming out, you know, I mean, it

1881
01:53:26,760 --> 01:53:28,720
wasn't all at once.
Sure.

1882
01:53:28,880 --> 01:53:33,360
But that's when the tide started
to change and they started just

1883
01:53:33,360 --> 01:53:35,920
begging the people stay on the
farm.

1884
01:53:36,440 --> 01:53:39,520
There's this one letter that a
kid wrote in, you know, and he

1885
01:53:39,520 --> 01:53:42,000
wrote to the the juvenile
instructor, which was like the

1886
01:53:42,000 --> 01:53:44,920
enzyme of the time or the, OR
the era, you know, the youth

1887
01:53:44,920 --> 01:53:49,440
magazine and I think the 12 or,
you know, whoever were probably,

1888
01:53:50,480 --> 01:53:53,600
you know, editors of such.
But he wrote a letter saying,

1889
01:53:53,600 --> 01:53:55,920
I'm tired of living on the farm.
Me and my dad don't get along.

1890
01:53:56,960 --> 01:54:00,240
And this was like 19, eight or
1889.

1891
01:54:00,720 --> 01:54:03,200
And he wrote this letter to the
church office building saying,

1892
01:54:03,560 --> 01:54:06,040
I've always just want, I just
want to come get an education

1893
01:54:06,040 --> 01:54:08,320
and I want to be an accountant
and I want to move to the city

1894
01:54:08,320 --> 01:54:10,640
where I can have a nice job and
not work so much.

1895
01:54:11,520 --> 01:54:15,600
And they wrote him back publicly
and said you're a fool.

1896
01:54:16,520 --> 01:54:19,920
Wow, there's green grass and
grain and God gives rain from

1897
01:54:19,920 --> 01:54:21,200
the city.
You will have food.

1898
01:54:21,440 --> 01:54:23,160
Find yourself a beautiful farm
girl.

1899
01:54:23,160 --> 01:54:26,000
Settle down, put your nose to
the plow and don't look back.

1900
01:54:26,480 --> 01:54:27,640
Yeah.
Purge them.

1901
01:54:27,640 --> 01:54:30,280
Not to get a degree, not to come
to the city.

1902
01:54:30,600 --> 01:54:32,720
You stay out there and raise
some food.

1903
01:54:33,600 --> 01:54:35,840
Well.
And, and holy mackerel, we've

1904
01:54:35,840 --> 01:54:39,040
come a long way.
Well, and, and, and here's the

1905
01:54:39,040 --> 01:54:41,760
thing too, right?
I mean, education, that's

1906
01:54:41,760 --> 01:54:45,480
another one, right?
Think about the insanity of

1907
01:54:45,480 --> 01:54:48,400
this, right?
And I fell into this trap and a

1908
01:54:48,840 --> 01:54:53,600
couple of my kids did as well.
Where where you were like, now

1909
01:54:53,600 --> 01:54:57,720
go to college, take out
hundreds, sometimes hundreds of

1910
01:54:57,720 --> 01:55:03,200
thousands of dollars worth of
student loans to go get a degree

1911
01:55:03,200 --> 01:55:06,360
in something that may or may not
recoup that money throughout

1912
01:55:06,360 --> 01:55:09,720
your life.
And it's the only debt in the

1913
01:55:09,760 --> 01:55:13,640
in, in the United States that
you can't escape, right?

1914
01:55:13,640 --> 01:55:17,280
Like if something happened
tomorrow and you just graduated

1915
01:55:17,960 --> 01:55:20,520
college, you're in a horrible
accident.

1916
01:55:20,520 --> 01:55:23,400
You can't do the job that you
you went to school for.

1917
01:55:24,200 --> 01:55:25,840
You're still on the hook for
those loans.

1918
01:55:25,840 --> 01:55:27,880
Bankruptcy will not wipe that
clean.

1919
01:55:28,480 --> 01:55:32,840
Now, here's my other thought.
If a kid is too young to drink

1920
01:55:32,880 --> 01:55:38,120
at age 18, shouldn't the same
philosophy about maybe not

1921
01:55:38,120 --> 01:55:41,760
taking out 100, you know,
hundreds of thousands of dollars

1922
01:55:42,480 --> 01:55:46,400
of loans also apply there,
right?

1923
01:55:46,400 --> 01:55:48,840
I mean, if you're saying they're
too young to make the decision

1924
01:55:49,480 --> 01:55:53,560
to to have a beer, I also think
then if that's the case, they're

1925
01:55:53,560 --> 01:56:00,360
probably too young to make a
decision that will that will

1926
01:56:00,360 --> 01:56:03,760
cause them to go hundreds of
thousands of dollars in debt.

1927
01:56:04,200 --> 01:56:09,080
Now, I'm not espousing that we
coddle kids until they're 18

1928
01:56:09,080 --> 01:56:12,120
years old.
But what I am saying is that you

1929
01:56:12,120 --> 01:56:17,360
can't have it both ways, right?
You can't have that level of

1930
01:56:17,360 --> 01:56:21,800
control over a young person and
say no, you can't do that.

1931
01:56:22,040 --> 01:56:25,160
And then at the same time say,
but you should totally take out

1932
01:56:25,920 --> 01:56:30,560
loans in the excess of $100,000
for an education.

1933
01:56:30,960 --> 01:56:34,840
I mean, look at age 18.
Well, I'm probably a different

1934
01:56:34,840 --> 01:56:37,720
example because I grew up really
fast after my dad died.

1935
01:56:37,720 --> 01:56:43,880
But you take the normal 18 year
old and they are not equipped to

1936
01:56:43,880 --> 01:56:47,120
make those decisions right now,
Jeff, we, we just have raised,

1937
01:56:47,480 --> 01:56:51,160
you know, children to the point
that they're still children into

1938
01:56:51,160 --> 01:56:53,000
their early 20s.
And that's a problem.

1939
01:56:54,120 --> 01:56:59,520
And and so it's this really what
we find ourselves in now has

1940
01:56:59,520 --> 01:57:01,240
been a problem.
It's been 100 years in the

1941
01:57:01,240 --> 01:57:04,680
making that, quite frankly, I
feel like was probably designed

1942
01:57:04,680 --> 01:57:08,840
from the beginning.
That's kind of that's kind of

1943
01:57:09,520 --> 01:57:15,400
what you almost can't escape as
you ponder all of these things

1944
01:57:15,520 --> 01:57:20,000
in in their entirety and why and
how come?

1945
01:57:20,800 --> 01:57:25,040
And you know, one of the
scriptures, I don't know where

1946
01:57:25,040 --> 01:57:30,440
it's at, talks about an enemy
hath done this, you know, and

1947
01:57:30,880 --> 01:57:35,560
you know, if, if we believe the
possibility that there is an

1948
01:57:35,560 --> 01:57:41,120
evil designing being who really
wants is so mad that he wants to

1949
01:57:41,120 --> 01:57:43,880
destroy Heavenly Father's plan,
his world, his children,

1950
01:57:43,880 --> 01:57:49,760
everything literally, then you
begin to look at these things

1951
01:57:49,760 --> 01:57:53,080
differently and you go, Oh my
gosh, look at that.

1952
01:57:53,920 --> 01:57:59,080
That's what's going on here.
You know, that's, it's, it's the

1953
01:58:00,440 --> 01:58:07,680
prophesied destruction of the
children of God if they don't

1954
01:58:08,000 --> 01:58:11,240
keep the simple path that God's
asked them to live from the

1955
01:58:11,240 --> 01:58:15,120
beginning.
And, and he just comes in and

1956
01:58:15,120 --> 01:58:17,960
he, you know, he takes an idea
that's good and wholesome, like

1957
01:58:18,280 --> 01:58:23,960
food and helping people, and he
turns it into a diet that

1958
01:58:23,960 --> 01:58:27,520
destroys them out of
convenience.

1959
01:58:27,800 --> 01:58:33,880
He takes an idea like education
and it goes from education to

1960
01:58:34,480 --> 01:58:38,320
indoctrination, but it's still
weird trappings of education.

1961
01:58:38,320 --> 01:58:40,640
So how dare you speak against
education.

1962
01:58:40,640 --> 01:58:42,120
All children need to be
educated.

1963
01:58:42,400 --> 01:58:45,760
That's a good godly pursuit.
And even with our community

1964
01:58:46,160 --> 01:58:49,720
education's up here.
Well, it should be education,

1965
01:58:50,240 --> 01:58:53,280
but what kind of education?
See, we've, we've missed the

1966
01:58:53,280 --> 01:58:55,680
whole boat.
It's we do the same thing with

1967
01:58:55,920 --> 01:58:59,720
religion, You know, he just
twists it and turns it and turns

1968
01:58:59,720 --> 01:59:02,560
it and waters it down or does
this or takes away until it

1969
01:59:02,560 --> 01:59:05,200
doesn't even resemble what God
wanted.

1970
01:59:05,200 --> 01:59:07,040
He done the same thing with
family.

1971
01:59:07,440 --> 01:59:10,000
He's done the same, you know,
take every single thing out

1972
01:59:10,000 --> 01:59:13,400
there and see where there's been
a concerted effort to change its

1973
01:59:13,400 --> 01:59:16,440
definition, its meaning, so that
we perceive it differently and

1974
01:59:16,440 --> 01:59:19,760
miss the boat and we live it
wrong.

1975
01:59:19,760 --> 01:59:22,800
And yet we tell ourselves that
it's everything we're supposed

1976
01:59:22,800 --> 01:59:25,480
to be doing.
Well, yeah, and, and the

1977
01:59:25,480 --> 01:59:28,880
messaging is, is is part of the
problem, right?

1978
01:59:28,880 --> 01:59:32,160
I mean, look, I remember when I
first joined the LDS Church,

1979
01:59:32,920 --> 01:59:36,440
Gordon B Hinckley was one of the
big prophets about counseling

1980
01:59:36,440 --> 01:59:39,920
the young men go to college, get
an education, right?

1981
01:59:41,400 --> 01:59:43,920
And that doesn't work for for
everybody.

1982
01:59:43,920 --> 01:59:49,080
You know, I and to be right
honest with you, I don't think

1983
01:59:49,600 --> 01:59:55,040
most of the jobs that we we need
to do really take that level of

1984
01:59:55,040 --> 01:59:57,480
education right now.
If you're a doctor, if you're a

1985
01:59:57,480 --> 02:00:00,240
lawyer, if you're a brain
surgeon, yeah, I want you in

1986
02:00:00,240 --> 02:00:02,560
school for a good solid decade,
right?

1987
02:00:03,160 --> 02:00:06,440
To know that you can get inside
my head and root around and find

1988
02:00:07,000 --> 02:00:08,800
the bad switch and get it taken
care of.

1989
02:00:09,480 --> 02:00:14,120
But if you're if you're a
draftsman.

1990
02:00:14,560 --> 02:00:18,000
If you're a surveyor, if you're
even a civil engineer, for the

1991
02:00:18,000 --> 02:00:22,040
most part, right, some education
is required, but not to the

1992
02:00:22,040 --> 02:00:23,680
level that we've done now,
right?

1993
02:00:24,000 --> 02:00:27,920
Why do you have to sit through a
philosophy class to learn how to

1994
02:00:27,920 --> 02:00:30,680
build a bridge?
It makes no sense to me other

1995
02:00:30,680 --> 02:00:34,640
than it's just a way to strap
kids into to, again, more, more

1996
02:00:34,640 --> 02:00:38,800
debt so you can make more money.
But these things have

1997
02:00:38,800 --> 02:00:42,040
infiltrated society now.
And I don't care if you're a

1998
02:00:42,040 --> 02:00:45,320
Mormon or not to the point that
it's expected.

1999
02:00:45,760 --> 02:00:50,320
And that's that's an issue, this
idea of education, right?

2000
02:00:50,680 --> 02:00:54,600
We think that in order to obtain
an education, you have to go to

2001
02:00:54,600 --> 02:00:56,480
college, right?
It's not.

2002
02:00:56,480 --> 02:01:00,160
So you should be seeking after
education through your whole

2003
02:01:00,160 --> 02:01:03,480
life, right?
And that's by reading things

2004
02:01:03,480 --> 02:01:08,600
that aren't just, you know, for
pleasure or even just religion,

2005
02:01:08,600 --> 02:01:09,960
right?
I want to say that, right?

2006
02:01:09,960 --> 02:01:12,120
Mormonism is unique.
It says all truth belongs to

2007
02:01:12,120 --> 02:01:15,520
Mormonism, so you better get out
there and read some other things

2008
02:01:15,520 --> 02:01:18,520
and learn how to do some stuff
and and understand.

2009
02:01:18,520 --> 02:01:23,640
But yeah, there's got there has
to be a redef going back to the

2010
02:01:23,640 --> 02:01:27,640
original definition of things to
to get back to that.

2011
02:01:28,160 --> 02:01:30,200
Well, you think it.
Think about the simple term, the

2012
02:01:30,200 --> 02:01:34,800
difference between the terms the
Gospel and the Church.

2013
02:01:35,960 --> 02:01:38,840
Yep.
And and how that concept has

2014
02:01:38,840 --> 02:01:40,320
changed.
Yep.

2015
02:01:41,240 --> 02:01:44,200
You know, the gospel of Christ
is delivered to the people.

2016
02:01:44,200 --> 02:01:46,480
The gospel is the importance,
it's the truth.

2017
02:01:46,480 --> 02:01:51,560
It's it's the good news of the
salvation that is provided

2018
02:01:51,560 --> 02:01:54,200
through Jesus Christ.
The church is a vehicle to

2019
02:01:54,200 --> 02:01:58,680
deliver that, a necessary thing.
But as all things, just like a

2020
02:01:58,680 --> 02:02:01,400
government that is supposed to
be by the people and then ends

2021
02:02:01,400 --> 02:02:06,280
up not being by the people and
for the people, it gets changed.

2022
02:02:06,320 --> 02:02:09,840
And all of a sudden we Revere
the church as the head in the

2023
02:02:09,840 --> 02:02:14,280
gospel, as something different.
And I remember when that first

2024
02:02:14,280 --> 02:02:17,800
dawned upon me, just the change
of that word, the meaning of

2025
02:02:17,800 --> 02:02:23,280
those two words and how they
were transposed, one being more,

2026
02:02:23,520 --> 02:02:30,440
you know, the principle that was
paramount now being captured by

2027
02:02:30,440 --> 02:02:33,920
the vehicle that was to deliver
it to the people.

2028
02:02:34,560 --> 02:02:36,880
And I remember what that it when
I started looking at it

2029
02:02:37,080 --> 02:02:39,080
differently.
Just like we're talking about

2030
02:02:39,080 --> 02:02:41,640
education as what does that
mean?

2031
02:02:42,120 --> 02:02:45,880
Does it mean the public school
system and our American, you

2032
02:02:45,880 --> 02:02:49,120
know, universities?
No, they educate you.

2033
02:02:49,120 --> 02:02:52,680
But is that what education is?
No, it's not.

2034
02:02:53,440 --> 02:02:55,880
Education is can be something
totally different.

2035
02:02:56,400 --> 02:03:01,360
And I honor and look forward to
all the education that is right

2036
02:03:01,360 --> 02:03:04,600
that I can gain.
Same for my children.

2037
02:03:05,160 --> 02:03:09,760
So it's just, it's just
interesting what an enemy has

2038
02:03:09,760 --> 02:03:16,800
done amongst us through subtlety
and words, ideas and and we, as

2039
02:03:16,800 --> 02:03:18,080
the Lord says, we love to have
it.

2040
02:03:18,080 --> 02:03:22,920
So because because all these
things generally lead us down a

2041
02:03:22,920 --> 02:03:26,680
path that appear to be easier.
We're beings who don't like

2042
02:03:26,680 --> 02:03:28,880
work.
We're beings who will take the

2043
02:03:28,880 --> 02:03:33,680
course of the least resistance
to our death.

2044
02:03:34,960 --> 02:03:37,760
Yeah, no.
So I agree with you totally.

2045
02:03:39,000 --> 02:03:41,840
All right, man.
Well, anything else you want to

2046
02:03:41,840 --> 02:03:46,080
hit on?
Oh, I imagine we can do it again

2047
02:03:46,080 --> 02:03:50,480
sometime.
I am, you know, I'm, I'm glad

2048
02:03:50,480 --> 02:03:52,160
that we got a chance to chat
about it.

2049
02:03:52,160 --> 02:03:55,080
It's, it's certainly not all
flushed out, but if you have

2050
02:03:55,080 --> 02:03:57,400
viewers out there who are
interested to reach out to you

2051
02:03:57,400 --> 02:03:59,440
or whatever, feel free to give
them my number.

2052
02:03:59,440 --> 02:04:02,480
I'd be happy to talk with
individuals that are interested

2053
02:04:02,560 --> 02:04:07,160
in exploring ideas in finding
land for their own selves, for

2054
02:04:07,160 --> 02:04:10,920
their families, you know, and
people who are interested in

2055
02:04:10,920 --> 02:04:13,760
other areas.
Start looking start, you know,

2056
02:04:13,760 --> 02:04:17,040
just start asking the Lord what
you can do to get out of the

2057
02:04:17,040 --> 02:04:19,720
cities.
I'll say that, you know, I, I

2058
02:04:19,720 --> 02:04:23,200
don't, I wouldn't want to be
caught in the bigger cities,

2059
02:04:23,200 --> 02:04:27,600
including Salt Lake or any of
those surrounding areas in the,

2060
02:04:27,600 --> 02:04:33,000
in The Who knows what's going to
happen even this year, but when

2061
02:04:33,000 --> 02:04:35,480
they devolve, it's just not
going to be a place to be.

2062
02:04:36,040 --> 02:04:37,000
Right.
Absolutely.

2063
02:04:38,600 --> 02:04:41,600
Raise food.
Find a place where you can be at

2064
02:04:41,600 --> 02:04:42,920
peace.
Perfect.

2065
02:04:43,240 --> 02:04:45,200
You got a, you got an e-mail
address.

2066
02:04:45,200 --> 02:04:48,120
You'd you'd want people e-mail
you if they're if they're.

2067
02:04:48,600 --> 02:04:52,200
Yep, that you can e-mail me at
old paths, new at Gmail.

2068
02:04:52,800 --> 02:04:54,000
Perfect.
Awesome.

2069
02:04:54,400 --> 02:04:57,040
Well, dude, it's fun.
Let's do it again as as this

2070
02:04:57,040 --> 02:05:00,040
plan gets more and more flushed
out, let's let's jump back on

2071
02:05:00,040 --> 02:05:02,400
here and talk more about it.
We'll do it.

2072
02:05:02,440 --> 02:05:04,680
I appreciate you, Dave.
Appreciate you too.

2073
02:05:04,960 --> 02:05:07,000
Bye everybody.
We'll see you.

2074
02:05:37,920 --> 02:05:40,720
You're listening to the Mormon
Renegade podcast?

2075
02:05:44,200 --> 02:05:44,320
Yeah.