Episode #149: The Prophet Enoch Installment #3 In The Old Testament Series W/Michael Ness

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So if you remember a few months
back, I released an episode

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about the Books of Enoch.
In that episode, we broke down

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the history of the books from a
very scholarly perspective.

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Now today, we're going to take a
deep dive on what the Books of

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Enoch have to teach us as
Michael Ness and I continue our

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series on the Old Testament.
During our conversation, we

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parse out who Enoch was, how he
fits in the timeline of the

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patriarchs, what some of his
heavenly visitations can teach

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us, and then wrap it all up by
talking about what Enoch should

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mean to each one of us as
adherence to the Restoration.

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You're listening to the Mormon
Renegade podcast, Lesson 3.

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Lesson 3.
Lesson 3 Who are we talking

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about?
We're talking about Enoch.

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Enoch, dude, I'll tell you what,
that has to be one of the men

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that I wish we just had more on.
I know Joseph gives us some.

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I know that we get some from
various books of Enoch.

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But man, there, there's some
stuff there, right?

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Especially as Mormons, I think
because we know that Melchizedek

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had a successful society and
there's been some speculation

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that his city was taken up,
right?

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We don't have know that for
certain, but they're just there

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and then they're gone.
I like the way that Joseph Smith

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translation reads with him.
It says that they sought the

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city of Enoch, and it says that
they did obtain heaven as what

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it does.
Yep.

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But Enoch, Enoch and his city,
we know for certain got there.

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And maybe this is just the the
surveyor slash planner in me,

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but I would love to know what
the ordinances of that city

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were, right?
Not not ordinances in terms of

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like temple ordinances, but how
was the city governed?

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Yeah, civil laws all that.
Yeah, unfortunately the the

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extra canonical non biblical
books of Enoch don't really go

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into the city aspect because
right, this is not there.

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But hopefully we can kind of
derive some of sure the name

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Enoch On a thought.
I was just barely looking that

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up.
It seems like the name Enoch

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means initiated, dedicated, or
inaugurated.

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But I vaguely remember that he
nibbles a mean that meant

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consecrated.
So even the name for Enoch meant

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consecrated.
So it's interesting that he is

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the ideal for consecration.
Right, which actually as you

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said, that does lend itself to
the belief in certain ordinances

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making a man dedicated more
consecrated.

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Initiated.
Initiated, right?

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Those are those are all things
as Mormons we should be very

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familiar with, especially if
we're familiar with temple

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liturgy and those sorts of
things.

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Yeah, dude, temple liturgies
everywhere.

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You know, we've been going
through that in our lessons,

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right?
Like all the early Christian

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scriptures, the Adamic stuff,
the Adam literature, it's got

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all the ordinances spelled out
practically right through there.

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Interesting.
So yeah, I'm geeked up for this

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one.
Yeah, you know, it's it's going

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to be a good one.
So we left off with last time

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kind of with the idea that the
Pearl great price is the answer

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to Nephi's conundrum that the
plain and precious or things

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were removed or even covenants
of the Lord are removed.

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So not necessarily plain and
precious, but when the Angel

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showing him in first Nephi 13
and he sees the book that'll

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come forth among the Gentiles
and then to his people, that

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Angel tells him it was complete,
but then it's been, it's been

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taken apart.
And Nephi remarks that it

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contained the covenants of the
Lord only there were not so

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many.
So the Bible didn't even have as

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many as the brass plates had,
right?

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He nibly says the Pearl of great
price is the only thing that

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restores what was lost from the
Bible because the Book of Mormon

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does not restore what was lost
from the Bible, right?

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And so we're kind of dealing
with that more in that sphere

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this time for sure, whether it's
what we're getting from Joseph

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Smith, but we're also going to
dive into the Books of Enoch.

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Too as well.
Nice.

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We'll do.
Let's tear it.

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All right.
We'll take a look at what's in

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our polar grid price first.
Do you need a set of scriptures

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or anything?
I don't.

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I mean, I got it on my phone
besides my notes here at the end

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of where things are kind of
moving along after Cain kills

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Abel, it says that Adam blessed.
Adam was blessed and the gospel

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was preached, you know, the all
things were confirmed unto Adam,

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it says by a holy ordinance.
And the gospel preached preached

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in a decree sent forth that it
should be in the world until the

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end thereof.
And thus it was.

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And Adam hearkened them the
voice of God and called upon his

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sons to repent.
And Adam knew his wife again and

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she bare a son and called his
name Seth and Adam glorify the

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name of God, for he said God had
a hath appointed me another seed

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instead of Abel whom Cain slew.
So that's important because in

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the class, I don't think we
covered it in the podcast, but

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in the class we were, I was
showing the the early Adam

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literature where Michael the
Archangel is sent by God to go

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talk to Adam after Cain kills
Abel.

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And he says, don't reveal the
mysteries to Cain, you will have

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another heir.
Because that was kind of the

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contention, right?
As we discovered, you know, that

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Cain wants to, he wanted to be
the patriarch over the

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priesthood.
And so that fits, although, you

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know, squinting at it, you kind
of got to say, oh, Cain already

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had the ordinances to be where
he was, right?

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But nonetheless, that element is
in that liturgy, or that the

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Scripture is interesting.
Adam was told that he'd have

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another error.
How do you square that with the

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Adam God doctrine?
Right, because you have Michael

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coming to talk to Adam.
In LDS theology, Michael is

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Adam.
So.

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Are you thinking more offices
here as well?

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I don't know if we need to go
into offices.

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I think in our world offices is
the the typical explanation and

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that's fine, but I think, you
know, in in the lessons, I

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really went into like the
linguistic approach to like the

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names of God being, you know, as
a different approach for

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identities of the personages.
In this instance, though, So we

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covered the Adam literature and
like the discourse on Avaton and

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and stuff where the Jews have,
you know, like the what was it

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called the divine investiture of
Michael.

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That is crazy, right?
Where you have the, you see the

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figures of both Michael and
Adam, though they are separate

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in that framework, they're both
being exalted to basically the

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identical position.
And you and I are squinting at

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it and reading in between the
lines and like, what's really

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going on here, right?
Is it that they were viewed as

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separate?
Or maybe some people really had

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the esoteric knowledge that they
were the same when they were

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kind of bound in the culture, to
put it into different terms.

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But as I've been reading the
book The Enoch Stuff, I have a

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new approach.
Really.

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Yeah, that's interesting.
OK.

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I'm sure we'll get there that.
No, no, we can go into it now.

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The the Jews and the Christians
got rid of the idea of a pre

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existence.
Right.

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But for a while it existed among
both groups.

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In fact I want to say the Jews
actually have that longer.

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That might be not true, but but
both originally believed in that

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and as an outgrowth of a belief
in a pre existence is that we

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exist.
It was our own entity before we

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came here.
I think we see, as I've been

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studying the books of Enoch and
stuff like that is we have

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heavenly counterparts.
OK.

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And so not only were they viewed
as oh, that was me before this

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now, but like, I still exist
there.

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Oh, OK.
Yeah.

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And so that that could you could
be seeing some of that element,

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like fascinating.
Yeah, Enoch has his heavenly

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counterparts in these stories.
OK.

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And it's kind of veiled, like at
one sense he's seeing the Son of

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Man, which we're like, oh,
that's Christ.

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And in some instances it when
he's interacting with the Son of

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Man in heaven, because Enoch's
being brought into heaven, it's

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like, Oh yeah, that's a separate
person, but then personage.

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But then it like, starts
blending, like Enoch is the Son

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of Man, and the Son of Man is
his heavenly identity workout.

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Interesting.
Yeah, it's weird and but that's

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one approach.
That's.

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Just the way that they looked at
things, you know?

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Right?
But I almost want to write a

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scholarly paper that for
example, on the Adam God

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doctrine in light of what the
scholars would term Second

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Temple Judaism.
Are you familiar with what that

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term means?
Right.

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So the Second Temple, and we'll
talk more about that is the

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period between 500 ish AD when
they rebuilt the temple after

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the Babylonian relativity and
Christ, right?

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And so that's that era, which is
the better documented era of

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Judaism, right?
But like all the literature from

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that point to me when I look at
that, Michael the Archangel is

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nigh unto God, if not viewed as
God in literature.

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And it's because the Greek
philosophy at the time was, you

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know, when people think of
Greeks, they think of like Greek

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mythology and like, Oh yeah,
Zeus and the pantheon.

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And you got as humidly puts it
like you got the night life of

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the gods and there's booze in it
and sling, you know, hanging

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around and, and sometimes
they're violent.

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They like to fight, you know,
the competitions.

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And so the Greek philosophy is
different, though.

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00:11:16,560 --> 00:11:20,440
And so it's, it's actually
monotheism, the philosophical

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00:11:20,440 --> 00:11:24,920
monotheist God idea in Greek
theology was kind of almost a,

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and it permeated the rest of the
world, but it was the outgrowth

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of the idea is there can really
only be one God, because if

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there was more than one, they'd
do all this and then there'd be

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just chaos and they'd be
competing and fighting and all.

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They can only be 1.
And that one would have to be

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all powerful, right?
That's the ideology that then

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permeates into Judaism and
Christianity, but it's also the

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attached ideas of he can't have
a body and you can't know him,

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and therefore God gets removed
and now he has to have

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intercessors between himself and
humanity.

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And Michael the Archangel.
And there are other archangels,

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but Michael is always kind of
the lead.

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The chief, He's the chief.
And so he is essentially taking

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on the role of God because God's
been removed in all that

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context.
So I find that fascinating.

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That is fascinating.
Anyway, that's a tangent right

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off the bat.
Back to the Pearl Crate Price.

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00:12:25,360 --> 00:12:29,800
This is like if I have a pet
doctrine.

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00:12:30,280 --> 00:12:32,400
What we're about to get into
here is my pet doctrine.

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00:12:32,400 --> 00:12:36,840
All right, I like it.
And so I hope I can do this

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well.
We see in Moses chapter 6 the IT

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says, and a book of remembrance
was kept in the which was

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recorded in the language of
Adam.

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00:12:51,520 --> 00:12:54,360
For it was given unto as many as
called upon God to write by the

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spirit of inspiration.
And by them their children were

224
00:12:57,440 --> 00:13:00,320
taught to read and write, having
a language which was pure and

225
00:13:00,320 --> 00:13:03,560
undefiled.
Now this same priesthood which

226
00:13:03,560 --> 00:13:06,160
was in the beginning, shall be
in the end of the world also.

227
00:13:06,440 --> 00:13:09,840
Now this prophecy Adam spake as
he was moved upon by the Holy

228
00:13:09,840 --> 00:13:11,560
Ghost.
I think all those are tied

229
00:13:11,560 --> 00:13:14,400
together.
OK, that the priesthood that

230
00:13:14,400 --> 00:13:16,760
Adam is talking to him and he's
making a prophecy.

231
00:13:16,760 --> 00:13:20,880
Now this same priesthood which
was that a book of remembrance

232
00:13:20,880 --> 00:13:25,000
was kept, recorded and given
unto as many as called upon God

233
00:13:25,000 --> 00:13:26,800
to write by the spirit of
inspiration, and their children

234
00:13:26,800 --> 00:13:28,680
were taught to read and write
having a language which was

235
00:13:28,680 --> 00:13:32,720
appeared undefiled.
When you set the terms, define

236
00:13:32,720 --> 00:13:36,560
things in the Society of Babylon
around you can't define things

237
00:13:37,440 --> 00:13:39,680
you can see you can see the
benefit that your children would

238
00:13:39,680 --> 00:13:43,000
have from that teaching,
learning out of those books,

239
00:13:43,000 --> 00:13:45,520
right?
But writing by the spirit of

240
00:13:45,520 --> 00:13:47,400
inspiration is super
interesting.

241
00:13:47,600 --> 00:13:50,800
We're going to the the books of
Enoch itself.

242
00:13:50,800 --> 00:13:54,400
These these pseudopigraphal
books really fall in line with

243
00:13:54,400 --> 00:13:56,400
this concept.
And we can get into that in a

244
00:13:56,400 --> 00:13:59,640
minute.
But Adam says that this

245
00:13:59,640 --> 00:14:01,040
priesthood will be in the end of
the world.

246
00:14:01,040 --> 00:14:04,160
Also that you'll write by the
spirit of inspiration.

247
00:14:04,520 --> 00:14:06,160
Isn't that fast?
In the hereafter.

248
00:14:06,880 --> 00:14:10,920
It says that this is this
priesthood, which was in the

249
00:14:10,920 --> 00:14:15,120
beginning what they're operating
on, which I believe is having to

250
00:14:15,120 --> 00:14:19,480
do with the records and writing
by inspiration writing Scripture

251
00:14:20,040 --> 00:14:23,400
shall be in the end of the world
also, which is OK, let's say the

252
00:14:23,400 --> 00:14:25,280
latter days, OK, the end of the
world.

253
00:14:25,280 --> 00:14:31,480
Also interesting and contingent
with that was it says Anna

254
00:14:31,480 --> 00:14:33,840
genealogy was kept to the
children of God and then this

255
00:14:33,840 --> 00:14:36,160
was the book of the generations
of and it goes forth.

256
00:14:36,680 --> 00:14:38,680
And so those two ideas are
intertwined, but they're a

257
00:14:38,680 --> 00:14:41,720
little different.
So the genealogy, but also

258
00:14:42,320 --> 00:14:45,920
writing scripture, right,
parables or proverbs or

259
00:14:46,560 --> 00:14:49,160
revelation, but you know.
All right.

260
00:14:49,480 --> 00:14:52,400
So let's get into Enoch, the
Books of Enoch.

261
00:14:53,320 --> 00:14:57,240
So Enoch, the figure that we're
aware of, the 7th from Adam, he

262
00:14:57,240 --> 00:15:01,360
would have lived approximately
5400 years ago, right?

263
00:15:01,600 --> 00:15:07,360
The books of Enoch that we have
were written between 2 and 300

264
00:15:07,360 --> 00:15:11,640
years from Christ.
OK, so did Enoch write them?

265
00:15:12,040 --> 00:15:14,920
Probably.
Not from that viewpoint, no, he

266
00:15:14,920 --> 00:15:18,280
didn't, Right.
And so you have other people,

267
00:15:18,280 --> 00:15:23,680
not Enoch, riding by the spirit
of inspiration, as Adam is

268
00:15:23,680 --> 00:15:26,480
saying.
And they're writing these books,

269
00:15:26,480 --> 00:15:30,000
they're writing the Scripture
and the parallels are dead on

270
00:15:30,080 --> 00:15:31,440
with what Joseph Smith is
getting.

271
00:15:31,440 --> 00:15:34,840
He's doing the same thing.
He's my view on the Pearl of

272
00:15:34,840 --> 00:15:36,640
great price.
You know, we call it the

273
00:15:36,680 --> 00:15:40,600
Genesis, right?
Or the book of Moses.

274
00:15:40,600 --> 00:15:43,480
And but I like how he nibbly
kind of breaks it down.

275
00:15:43,480 --> 00:15:46,960
He says, well, really, we have a
book of Moses.

276
00:15:47,200 --> 00:15:50,480
We have a book of Adam.
We have a book of Enoch, book of

277
00:15:50,480 --> 00:15:52,760
Noah.
And even if Joseph Smith,

278
00:15:52,760 --> 00:15:55,560
Matthew, we have the restored
words of Christ, they have all

279
00:15:55,560 --> 00:15:58,400
these different authors.
What Joseph Smith is doing is

280
00:15:58,400 --> 00:16:04,320
he's channeling this idea, and
not that he's reproducing the

281
00:16:04,320 --> 00:16:06,440
whole book of Adam, the whole
book of Enoch, the whole book of

282
00:16:06,440 --> 00:16:09,320
Noah, but he's taking the
fragments of those and he's

283
00:16:09,320 --> 00:16:12,400
splicing it back into Genesis.
Right, so.

284
00:16:13,240 --> 00:16:16,120
So he's making an inspired
version of Genesis because it's

285
00:16:16,120 --> 00:16:19,280
an amalgamation like Mormon does
with the right, with the

286
00:16:19,440 --> 00:16:23,080
bridging all the plates.
This is going to be interesting,

287
00:16:23,080 --> 00:16:24,680
right?
Because if Joseph's getting

288
00:16:24,680 --> 00:16:27,320
stuff on Enoch, we need to pay
attention to Enoch.

289
00:16:27,360 --> 00:16:30,360
There is something there that,
and, and it's been my contention

290
00:16:30,360 --> 00:16:34,480
for a while that we haven't
given Enoch his due, right?

291
00:16:34,760 --> 00:16:38,480
I think because there are
different books of Enoch, it, it

292
00:16:38,480 --> 00:16:41,520
does create a bit of a conundrum
for us to wrap our mind around,

293
00:16:41,520 --> 00:16:43,280
right?
You have the Ethiopian 1, you

294
00:16:43,280 --> 00:16:46,880
have a couple other translations
and then you have Joseph Smith

295
00:16:46,880 --> 00:16:49,880
stuff.
I think, OK, let me phrase this

296
00:16:49,920 --> 00:16:53,320
for a guy like me who's super
lazy, just going with Joseph

297
00:16:53,320 --> 00:16:56,600
like that newest, newest is, you
know, it's good enough.

298
00:16:57,080 --> 00:17:00,120
It, it, it creates an
opportunity to do that.

299
00:17:00,120 --> 00:17:04,680
But I don't think we do him
justice as what the Lord's

300
00:17:04,680 --> 00:17:06,560
trying to get across without
going to this.

301
00:17:06,839 --> 00:17:08,880
Right.
And so we can view the latter

302
00:17:08,880 --> 00:17:11,400
day restoration, obviously when
we get through Joseph Smith's

303
00:17:11,400 --> 00:17:13,800
going to be a lot more
authentic, right, First off,

304
00:17:14,119 --> 00:17:17,200
right.
And so the the question becomes

305
00:17:17,200 --> 00:17:21,200
when we read this older stuff
that's produced by a source that

306
00:17:21,200 --> 00:17:24,520
we don't know about what's
authentic, what's not right, and

307
00:17:24,520 --> 00:17:26,440
we just got to compare notes.
Yep, at that point.

308
00:17:27,920 --> 00:17:30,200
And and I'll say on the outset
here.

309
00:17:30,880 --> 00:17:32,840
There's a lot of Bull's eyes.
Right.

310
00:17:33,280 --> 00:17:36,800
And and I covered this with a
guy named Adam Stokes.

311
00:17:36,800 --> 00:17:39,720
There's no way Joseph would have
had a manuscript of the Book of

312
00:17:39,720 --> 00:17:42,920
Enoch, just wouldn't.
We know that there was a copy

313
00:17:43,280 --> 00:17:46,560
out in France at this time
during during Joseph Smith's

314
00:17:46,560 --> 00:17:52,080
lifetime.
But Joseph was having a hard

315
00:17:52,080 --> 00:17:56,040
enough time writing English.
I don't think he was necessarily

316
00:17:56,400 --> 00:17:58,320
diving into the French, right?
No, no, no.

317
00:18:00,160 --> 00:18:03,120
So the fact he does hit all
those bull's eyes, that should

318
00:18:03,120 --> 00:18:06,560
stand as a testimony.
To to this day, there's modern

319
00:18:06,560 --> 00:18:12,120
scholars who say that Joseph
Smith had to have had because

320
00:18:12,120 --> 00:18:14,960
there's no other way when they
say that there's no other way

321
00:18:14,960 --> 00:18:16,200
that he could have and then when
you.

322
00:18:16,200 --> 00:18:19,160
Pin him down and say OK, but
where's he getting it?

323
00:18:20,360 --> 00:18:22,280
I don't I don't know some other
fragment.

324
00:18:22,280 --> 00:18:24,240
That that we don't know about is
what they'll say, right?

325
00:18:24,240 --> 00:18:27,080
Exactly.
And so when when the best you

326
00:18:27,080 --> 00:18:30,120
got as a trained historian is
some other fragment we don't

327
00:18:30,120 --> 00:18:34,600
know about, I tend to call BS
because look, we have a pretty

328
00:18:34,600 --> 00:18:38,040
good idea of what folks were
reading in those days, right?

329
00:18:38,360 --> 00:18:40,040
It's not a mystery.
Here's 1 rebuttal.

330
00:18:40,040 --> 00:18:44,640
To this too, Enoch was not
popular, no, in the Christian

331
00:18:44,640 --> 00:18:47,200
world and the Jewish world at
this point in time and for a

332
00:18:47,200 --> 00:18:50,520
long time before that.
The reason why the scholarship

333
00:18:50,520 --> 00:18:53,400
was sleeping on it like the why
there was one copy in French and

334
00:18:53,480 --> 00:18:57,440
and in France was because no one
wanted to touch it and it was

335
00:18:57,760 --> 00:19:02,000
locked away and you had to go
through hell to even go see it.

336
00:19:02,680 --> 00:19:05,000
It was because and.
Because it.

337
00:19:05,000 --> 00:19:08,680
Wasn't of interest to anyone.
So for so to take the viewpoint

338
00:19:08,680 --> 00:19:12,280
that Joseph Smith was just
aspiring and a charlatan or

339
00:19:12,720 --> 00:19:16,040
opportunistic, whatever he would
have been working in the

340
00:19:16,040 --> 00:19:18,480
framework of what are my
audience going to be?

341
00:19:18,480 --> 00:19:19,760
What?
What are they interested in?

342
00:19:19,760 --> 00:19:22,600
What can I capitalize?
Enoch's not the thing to

343
00:19:22,600 --> 00:19:25,000
capitalize on because no one
gives a care, no.

344
00:19:25,200 --> 00:19:28,280
Because realistically in in the
old New Testaments, he's

345
00:19:28,280 --> 00:19:30,440
mentioned a handful of times,
right?

346
00:19:30,440 --> 00:19:35,000
He it's not like, and if you go
back to Enoch, you see this,

347
00:19:35,000 --> 00:19:37,680
right?
It's not that they're short,

348
00:19:37,680 --> 00:19:39,920
quick blurbs and there's maybe a
handful of them.

349
00:19:39,920 --> 00:19:41,640
Yeah, all the.
Scholars who looked at the Book

350
00:19:41,640 --> 00:19:46,480
of Enoch at the point of Joseph
Smith hated it because of all

351
00:19:46,480 --> 00:19:49,360
the astronomical stuff in it,
all the cosmic awful stuff.

352
00:19:49,640 --> 00:19:52,520
And like that they said, this
has no bearing in the gospel.

353
00:19:52,520 --> 00:19:55,800
This is just rubbish, right?
Yeah, absolutely.

354
00:19:56,560 --> 00:20:02,120
Absolutely, and it's interesting
that it is referred to in the

355
00:20:02,120 --> 00:20:05,920
Bible but does not make its way
into the Canon.

356
00:20:06,160 --> 00:20:11,520
Right, and this is where I take
exception with sectarian

357
00:20:11,520 --> 00:20:13,200
Christianity.
Right.

358
00:20:13,200 --> 00:20:18,720
When they say that the Bible is
the inerrant word of God, I'm

359
00:20:18,720 --> 00:20:23,080
like, bro, that thing, that
thing was created for a

360
00:20:23,080 --> 00:20:26,560
political purpose.
Let's not pretend that this was

361
00:20:26,560 --> 00:20:30,440
done because various bishops got
together and said, boy, we

362
00:20:30,440 --> 00:20:35,160
really need to unify things.
No, Constantine was looking for

363
00:20:36,360 --> 00:20:40,200
a A1 religion that he could
rally the troops behind, and it

364
00:20:40,200 --> 00:20:44,280
was political.
And Enoch throws curveballs all

365
00:20:44,280 --> 00:20:47,160
the way through, right?
Like it does not fit with a

366
00:20:47,160 --> 00:20:51,600
trinitarian view of God.
It doesn't fit with a God who

367
00:20:51,600 --> 00:20:55,560
cannot be known.
It is troublesome.

368
00:20:55,920 --> 00:20:57,120
Yeah, all the.
Way around it is.

369
00:20:57,120 --> 00:20:59,400
And so, yeah, Joseph Smith.
Would.

370
00:20:59,400 --> 00:21:05,240
Not have copied Enoch to or any
benefit.

371
00:21:05,560 --> 00:21:07,120
No.
One time no.

372
00:21:08,000 --> 00:21:09,960
And I don't think.
There's a ton of French converts

373
00:21:09,960 --> 00:21:11,720
running around in those days
either, right?

374
00:21:11,720 --> 00:21:14,520
Like, no, there weren't.
If if you try to just pin down

375
00:21:14,520 --> 00:21:19,840
where, let's just take the the
scholarly consensus and say, OK,

376
00:21:19,840 --> 00:21:21,920
if he did have a fragment,
where's that fragment coming

377
00:21:21,920 --> 00:21:23,960
from?
Well, he's not, he's not.

378
00:21:23,960 --> 00:21:27,040
They're not tearing the French
out of France to come join the

379
00:21:27,040 --> 00:21:31,360
Mormons, right?
That's not happening.

380
00:21:32,360 --> 00:21:34,480
It hadn't been translated at
that point.

381
00:21:34,680 --> 00:21:36,720
And then?
The next fragment we got was

382
00:21:36,720 --> 00:21:39,120
from like the orthodox side of
things and that wasn't

383
00:21:39,120 --> 00:21:42,400
definitely not American, no
Eastern Europe, no, no.

384
00:21:42,400 --> 00:21:44,400
No.
So there's this.

385
00:21:44,520 --> 00:21:48,200
Like, if you ever want to get
into a debate with someone and

386
00:21:48,200 --> 00:21:52,320
prove Joseph Smith more than a
charlatan or a fake Enoch's your

387
00:21:52,440 --> 00:21:54,360
your boy, you're going to want
to pay attention.

388
00:21:54,360 --> 00:21:55,600
Oh dude, you're.
Going to love this son.

389
00:21:55,680 --> 00:21:58,520
All right, well, let's continue
with the the probably great

390
00:21:58,520 --> 00:22:00,720
price before we get into the
Enoch, the Books of Enoch.

391
00:22:02,960 --> 00:22:07,400
Hugh Nibbly says in Enoch the
Prophet, it all begins on earth

392
00:22:07,600 --> 00:22:10,720
with the book of the generations
of Adam, a complete record of

393
00:22:10,720 --> 00:22:13,640
names and events and of God's
dealings with his children on

394
00:22:13,640 --> 00:22:16,200
the earth.
He requires the Saints in every

395
00:22:16,200 --> 00:22:19,520
age to keep such a book, or
rather to continue the original,

396
00:22:19,560 --> 00:22:22,960
adding their own names and
histories to it as they arranged

397
00:22:22,960 --> 00:22:24,800
by law.
The inheritances of the Saints

398
00:22:24,800 --> 00:22:28,560
whose names are found and the
names of their fathers and of

399
00:22:28,560 --> 00:22:30,760
their children enrolled in the
book of the Law of God.

400
00:22:30,760 --> 00:22:35,480
That's section 85, which is the
same as the Book of Remembrance,

401
00:22:35,480 --> 00:22:38,440
which is also section 85.
So that's the your one mighty

402
00:22:38,440 --> 00:22:42,120
and strong section, right, which
goes back to Adam and is also

403
00:22:42,120 --> 00:22:43,720
the genealogy of the sons of
Adam.

404
00:22:43,800 --> 00:22:47,200
Enoch reads from the books to
remind his people of the

405
00:22:47,200 --> 00:22:50,320
commandments which I God gave
unto their Father Adam.

406
00:22:50,320 --> 00:22:54,200
That's Moses 628 when he called
upon our Father Adam by his own

407
00:22:54,200 --> 00:22:57,880
voice, and ordered them to pass
it on, saying, Teach these

408
00:22:57,880 --> 00:23:01,440
things freely unto your
children, and in time they are

409
00:23:01,440 --> 00:23:05,320
to reach us.
The rule is that many books of

410
00:23:05,320 --> 00:23:08,240
every kind are handed down from
one generation to another, even

411
00:23:08,240 --> 00:23:11,560
until they the people have
fallen into transgression.

412
00:23:11,560 --> 00:23:15,360
That's he woman 3:15 at which
time they disappear, until

413
00:23:15,360 --> 00:23:16,880
another prophet brings them
forth.

414
00:23:17,560 --> 00:23:20,680
Next to Enoch himself, the
greatest transmitter of the

415
00:23:20,680 --> 00:23:24,400
records would seem to be Moses,
by whose hand we receive the

416
00:23:24,400 --> 00:23:27,280
records that came through Enoch
and his successors.

417
00:23:27,640 --> 00:23:30,000
And it is Moses who gives us the
key to the whole thing.

418
00:23:31,040 --> 00:23:33,840
And now, Moses my son, thou
shalt write the things which I

419
00:23:33,840 --> 00:23:36,160
shall speak.
And in a day when the children

420
00:23:36,160 --> 00:23:39,360
of men shall esteem my words is
not, and take many of them from

421
00:23:39,360 --> 00:23:42,320
the book which thou shalt write,
behold, I will raise up another

422
00:23:42,320 --> 00:23:45,520
like unto thee, and they shall
be had again among the children

423
00:23:45,520 --> 00:23:47,960
of men, among as many as shall
believe.

424
00:23:49,680 --> 00:23:55,480
So quick question there.
Nibley says that Moses

425
00:23:55,800 --> 00:23:59,600
essentially has the records from
Adam through Enoch.

426
00:24:00,120 --> 00:24:03,560
That or.
Or he's getting the he's.

427
00:24:03,560 --> 00:24:05,000
Getting it by Revelation, he's
getting it by.

428
00:24:05,000 --> 00:24:07,760
The revelation and I kind of
view that like we talked about

429
00:24:07,760 --> 00:24:09,960
heavenly counterparts with
person just right like there's

430
00:24:09,960 --> 00:24:12,960
also the heavenly counterpart in
my opinion, to what gets written

431
00:24:13,480 --> 00:24:17,720
by inspiration on the earth too.
So it's never lost fully, right,

432
00:24:17,920 --> 00:24:20,120
Because the angels are also the
scribes, right?

433
00:24:20,120 --> 00:24:21,520
They're.
They're taking it down too.

434
00:24:21,520 --> 00:24:27,120
So the idea that that Moses may
get a record from heaven and

435
00:24:27,120 --> 00:24:29,960
have it taken back up isn't out
of the realm of possibility.

436
00:24:29,960 --> 00:24:31,720
Not at all.
And so.

437
00:24:31,760 --> 00:24:35,600
It's super interesting though
that Nibley points out that next

438
00:24:35,600 --> 00:24:39,600
to Enoch, Moses is the guy, but
we see strong similarities in

439
00:24:39,600 --> 00:24:41,160
other places with Enoch and
Moses.

440
00:24:41,160 --> 00:24:44,160
Like all the people hate me for
I am slow of speech.

441
00:24:45,400 --> 00:24:47,880
And.
God tells Moses and Enoch the

442
00:24:47,880 --> 00:24:52,760
same thing, except in Moses's
case he required he asked for a

443
00:24:52,760 --> 00:24:54,600
spokesperson anyways.
Right.

444
00:24:55,000 --> 00:24:58,800
But interesting that that
parallel is there.

445
00:24:58,920 --> 00:25:04,560
Yeah, we covered in our Old
Testament classes that and we

446
00:25:04,560 --> 00:25:07,880
see that according to the Pearl
great price here, Adam's writing

447
00:25:07,880 --> 00:25:13,440
a book, keeping records in the
in the Adam literature, Seth

448
00:25:13,440 --> 00:25:17,560
makes a record after Adam dies
and that's passed down and it

449
00:25:17,560 --> 00:25:19,280
makes it all the way to the
temple of Solomon.

450
00:25:19,720 --> 00:25:21,560
You recall that?
Yep, I do.

451
00:25:22,080 --> 00:25:24,920
And Enoch is making the records
too, right.

452
00:25:25,000 --> 00:25:28,080
And we see this in the doctrine
of Covenants.

453
00:25:28,560 --> 00:25:32,080
Now Adam on Diamond, it says
three years previous to the

454
00:25:32,080 --> 00:25:36,440
death of Adam, he called Seth,
Enos, Canaan, Mahalaleel, Jared,

455
00:25:36,440 --> 00:25:39,280
Enoch, and Methuselah, who are
all high priests with the

456
00:25:39,280 --> 00:25:41,640
residue of his posterity, who
are righteous into the valley of

457
00:25:41,640 --> 00:25:46,720
Adam on Niomen, etcetera.
And these things were written in

458
00:25:46,720 --> 00:25:50,040
the book of Enoch and are to be
testified of in due time.

459
00:25:50,960 --> 00:25:53,240
So there is a book of Enoch, an
actual book of Enoch, that our

460
00:25:53,240 --> 00:25:56,440
historical figure Enoch wrote
that we don't have, that is not

461
00:25:56,480 --> 00:25:58,440
these pseudepigraphal books of
Enoch.

462
00:25:58,960 --> 00:25:59,960
That we're going to talk about
and.

463
00:25:59,960 --> 00:26:03,800
Pseudepigrapha is a fun term
that smart people with degrees

464
00:26:03,800 --> 00:26:09,520
use that basically is literature
that was written between 200

465
00:26:09,520 --> 00:26:13,720
years of Christ, Christ's life.
So whether before either side,

466
00:26:13,800 --> 00:26:18,120
either side, that's attributed
to an earlier figure, usually a

467
00:26:18,120 --> 00:26:19,240
patriarch.
Got you.

468
00:26:19,680 --> 00:26:22,600
OK, that makes sense.
And so a.

469
00:26:22,600 --> 00:26:26,160
Scholar today, although it's the
definition would have to be

470
00:26:26,160 --> 00:26:28,560
broader if they do this, but
they they could say that our

471
00:26:28,560 --> 00:26:32,920
book of Moses is pseudepigrapha
because Joseph Smith is

472
00:26:32,920 --> 00:26:35,720
producing Yeah, that's.
True of a book in the.

473
00:26:35,720 --> 00:26:38,640
Name of book Moses, right?
Right.

474
00:26:39,040 --> 00:26:41,280
They wouldn't want to give him
that on there though.

475
00:26:41,400 --> 00:26:43,040
No, but.
Yeah, it's interesting.

476
00:26:43,240 --> 00:26:44,920
You have to consider.
Because it goes back to this

477
00:26:45,440 --> 00:26:47,080
tradition.
Writing by the spirit of

478
00:26:47,080 --> 00:26:50,160
inspiration, yeah.
Also fun.

479
00:26:50,160 --> 00:26:54,840
To note, Adam would be if the if
the timelines are right,

480
00:26:54,880 --> 00:26:59,280
inaccurate, Adam would be 622
years old when Enoch was born.

481
00:26:59,920 --> 00:27:05,760
Adam was 687 years old when
Enoch had his calling and

482
00:27:06,160 --> 00:27:09,240
ascension into the presence of
when he was when Enoch was 65.

483
00:27:09,240 --> 00:27:12,440
Right.
Enoch would have been 305 years

484
00:27:12,440 --> 00:27:16,400
old when Adam blessed the
residue of his posterity at Adam

485
00:27:16,400 --> 00:27:19,800
on diamond.
And Enoch was 308 years old when

486
00:27:19,800 --> 00:27:24,800
Adam ascended back into heaven.
And.

487
00:27:24,800 --> 00:27:30,320
Adam's ascension into heaven is
122 years before the city of

488
00:27:30,320 --> 00:27:33,320
enoch's ascension into heaven
man that puts.

489
00:27:33,320 --> 00:27:36,160
Everything in some proximity,
right?

490
00:27:36,160 --> 00:27:38,840
You start to understand the
generations.

491
00:27:39,200 --> 00:27:41,320
Yeah.
So the calling, the calling of

492
00:27:41,320 --> 00:27:45,440
Enoch.
God says to Enoch, And for these

493
00:27:45,440 --> 00:27:48,360
many generations, ever since the
day that I created them, have

494
00:27:48,360 --> 00:27:51,440
they gone astray, and have
denied me, and sought their own

495
00:27:51,440 --> 00:27:54,640
counsels in the dark, and in
their own abominations have they

496
00:27:54,640 --> 00:27:57,080
devised murder, and not kept the
commandments which I gave to

497
00:27:57,080 --> 00:27:59,920
their father Adam.
Wherefore they have forsworn

498
00:27:59,920 --> 00:28:02,520
themselves, and by their oaths
they have brought upon

499
00:28:02,520 --> 00:28:05,480
themselves death, and the hell I
have prepared for them, if they

500
00:28:05,480 --> 00:28:08,840
repent not.
And when Enoch had heard these

501
00:28:08,840 --> 00:28:11,720
words, he bowed himself to the
earth before the Lord, and spake

502
00:28:11,720 --> 00:28:14,320
before the Lord, saying, Why is
it that I have found favor in

503
00:28:14,320 --> 00:28:18,280
thy sight, and am but a lad, and
all the people hate me, for I am

504
00:28:18,280 --> 00:28:20,760
slow of speech, Wherefore am I
thy servant?

505
00:28:21,400 --> 00:28:23,720
And the Lord said unto Enoch, Go
forth, and do as I have

506
00:28:23,720 --> 00:28:25,640
commanded thee, and no man shall
Pierce thee.

507
00:28:25,880 --> 00:28:28,960
Open my mouth, and it shall be
filled, and I will give thee

508
00:28:28,960 --> 00:28:31,840
utterance, for all flesh is in
my hands, and I will do as

509
00:28:31,840 --> 00:28:35,360
seemeth me good.
Say unto this people, Choose ye

510
00:28:35,360 --> 00:28:37,600
this day to serve the Lord God
who made you.

511
00:28:38,440 --> 00:28:42,440
Behold, my spirit is upon you.
Wherefore wherefore all thy

512
00:28:42,440 --> 00:28:45,440
words will I justify, And the
mountains shall flee before you,

513
00:28:45,440 --> 00:28:48,640
and the rivers shall turn from
their course, and thou shalt

514
00:28:48,640 --> 00:28:52,280
abide in me, and I in you.
Therefore walk with me.

515
00:28:53,520 --> 00:28:57,680
So back to the oaths, he says by
your oaths you have brought upon

516
00:28:57,680 --> 00:29:01,480
yourselves death.
So that's interesting because in

517
00:29:01,480 --> 00:29:04,720
a way that that kind of Harkins
to the Enoch literature about

518
00:29:04,720 --> 00:29:07,040
the angels, right?
Swearing an.

519
00:29:07,040 --> 00:29:09,440
Oath to themselves.
They come down upon what's

520
00:29:09,440 --> 00:29:13,560
called Mount Hermon and you
know, 200 watchers or whatever,

521
00:29:13,560 --> 00:29:16,360
and they make a covenant with
each other saying, you know,

522
00:29:16,520 --> 00:29:19,200
we're going to go down and do
this and we're going to go take

523
00:29:19,200 --> 00:29:21,040
the daughters of men.
Then we're going to go raise up

524
00:29:21,040 --> 00:29:23,240
children and we're going to go
live upon the earth.

525
00:29:23,240 --> 00:29:25,000
And they made an oath to do
that.

526
00:29:25,280 --> 00:29:27,280
Let me ask by their.
Oaths they have brought up

527
00:29:27,280 --> 00:29:28,520
themselves.
Death.

528
00:29:29,000 --> 00:29:32,360
Let me ask you this, just just a
thought.

529
00:29:32,920 --> 00:29:36,320
When when we enter the temple,
when we start dealing with that

530
00:29:36,320 --> 00:29:38,880
part of the gospel, we make
oaths there as well.

531
00:29:39,160 --> 00:29:40,160
Yep.
Is.

532
00:29:40,160 --> 00:29:43,240
There any possibility that these
oaths that they're talking

533
00:29:43,240 --> 00:29:47,200
about, the reason they're oaths,
oaths of death, so to speak, is

534
00:29:47,200 --> 00:29:50,600
because they made a holy
covenant and then just ignore

535
00:29:50,600 --> 00:29:51,840
them.
There's that.

536
00:29:51,840 --> 00:29:54,760
There's also I was going to
bring up that we see the

537
00:29:54,760 --> 00:30:01,560
counterfeit priesthood from Cain
in this era, which there and not

538
00:30:01,560 --> 00:30:04,720
only imitation oaths of the
temple, but the secret

539
00:30:04,720 --> 00:30:08,000
combination oaths just going to
refer to the secret combination

540
00:30:08,000 --> 00:30:10,200
oath to murder and get gained.
It just is the same.

541
00:30:11,120 --> 00:30:14,280
But in any case, there's an oath
is the the prominent theme.

542
00:30:14,720 --> 00:30:16,760
Gotcha.
Gotcha.

543
00:30:16,760 --> 00:30:19,400
OK.
The the other thing that I find

544
00:30:19,400 --> 00:30:23,280
fascinating and we see this with
Moses, we see this with other

545
00:30:24,160 --> 00:30:28,280
prophets, everybody seems to be
reluctant, right?

546
00:30:29,440 --> 00:30:33,360
And and that gives me a little
bit of hope for my own

547
00:30:34,280 --> 00:30:37,800
destination, right?
Because I'll be honest, there's

548
00:30:37,840 --> 00:30:40,560
been times he's asked me to do
things and I've argued, right?

549
00:30:40,560 --> 00:30:43,040
I'm like, Nope, Nope, you got
the wrong dude.

550
00:30:43,040 --> 00:30:44,840
You got to go find somebody
else.

551
00:30:45,440 --> 00:30:47,640
I know nothing.
About whatever it is you want me

552
00:30:47,640 --> 00:30:50,960
to do, you're going to have to
go find someone else, I think.

553
00:30:52,320 --> 00:30:57,480
I think, I think that that the
way this goes is why they

554
00:30:57,480 --> 00:31:02,600
question the calling, right?
I don't think it's with these

555
00:31:02,600 --> 00:31:03,840
prophets.
I don't think it's out of

556
00:31:03,840 --> 00:31:07,800
laziness or just an undesired.
I think it's you got the wrong

557
00:31:07,800 --> 00:31:09,640
guy because I'm not qualified.
Sure.

558
00:31:10,000 --> 00:31:13,800
And you see with Moses, you know
the man is man is nothing, which

559
00:31:13,800 --> 00:31:15,640
thing I've never before
supposed, right?

560
00:31:15,640 --> 00:31:18,920
Because they when they have an
experience, they realize that

561
00:31:18,920 --> 00:31:21,520
they are nothing to the majesty
of God, right?

562
00:31:21,760 --> 00:31:24,120
Yep.
And so I think that's something

563
00:31:24,120 --> 00:31:26,120
we can draw out from there.
When he tells you to do

564
00:31:26,120 --> 00:31:28,240
something, don't worry about
being qualified.

565
00:31:28,240 --> 00:31:30,640
Just go get it done.
Yeah, and.

566
00:31:30,680 --> 00:31:31,920
And you'll make up the
difference.

567
00:31:31,920 --> 00:31:34,080
I will.
Justify your words right exactly

568
00:31:34,360 --> 00:31:40,520
exactly No, I love all of that
so and that this part here thou

569
00:31:40,560 --> 00:31:44,040
shalt abide in me and I and you
therefore walk with me.

570
00:31:46,400 --> 00:31:49,200
We'll touch more on what it
means to walk with God.

571
00:31:49,360 --> 00:31:51,240
Actually, I think I have that
later.

572
00:31:52,160 --> 00:31:57,440
It's somewhere in there.
But so we have Enoch face to

573
00:31:57,440 --> 00:32:01,240
face with God, who is.
Is the.

574
00:32:01,240 --> 00:32:04,160
Question right how does this the
age-old question to Adam God

575
00:32:04,160 --> 00:32:08,000
believers, for example, is if
Adam is God, then how come Enoch

576
00:32:08,000 --> 00:32:13,680
is talking to to God or whatever
you know you know there's.

577
00:32:13,680 --> 00:32:16,320
A there's there's a few
possibilities here, right?

578
00:32:16,320 --> 00:32:20,000
And at some level, I think is
Adam God believers.

579
00:32:21,000 --> 00:32:24,400
If you, it's never bad to
question those things, right?

580
00:32:24,400 --> 00:32:26,880
I'm a big believer that that's
one of the gifts of Mormonism.

581
00:32:26,880 --> 00:32:31,160
There's plenty for you to
explore, but I've I've struggled

582
00:32:31,160 --> 00:32:33,080
with the same thing and to be
honest, I'm like, doesn't

583
00:32:33,080 --> 00:32:35,480
matter.
Does it matter if he gets his

584
00:32:35,480 --> 00:32:38,360
charge from Adam?
Does it matter if he gets a

585
00:32:38,360 --> 00:32:41,640
charge from Adam's God?
Doesn't really matter.

586
00:32:41,640 --> 00:32:45,200
It's still the same charge from
a line of proper authority and

587
00:32:45,200 --> 00:32:46,760
you got to go.
So we'll read a.

588
00:32:46,760 --> 00:32:49,040
Statement from Brigham Young and
I really like when he addresses

589
00:32:49,040 --> 00:32:52,800
this, but before that we're
going to analyze in my opinion,

590
00:32:53,000 --> 00:32:56,800
which God, this isn't OK, you
know, process of elimination.

591
00:32:57,520 --> 00:33:01,080
This God is not Jesus Christ.
This is not the anti mortal

592
00:33:01,400 --> 00:33:04,240
Christ.
Why is it not the anti mortal

593
00:33:04,240 --> 00:33:06,520
Christ?
Well, we go back to the Book of

594
00:33:06,520 --> 00:33:10,280
Mormon in the Book of Ether and
you have the brother, brother of

595
00:33:10,280 --> 00:33:12,720
Jared and his experience.
I'm going to read that.

596
00:33:12,720 --> 00:33:17,920
That's in ether through chapter
3, verse 14 and 15, when when

597
00:33:17,920 --> 00:33:21,000
the brother of Jared has the
veil lifted and has that

598
00:33:21,000 --> 00:33:25,760
experience, Christ tells him,
Behold, I am Jesus Christ, I am

599
00:33:25,760 --> 00:33:29,880
the Father and the Son in me
shall all mankind have life, and

600
00:33:29,880 --> 00:33:33,640
that eternally, even they who
shall believe on my name, and

601
00:33:33,640 --> 00:33:35,400
they shall become my sons and
daughters.

602
00:33:35,760 --> 00:33:38,320
And never have I shown myself
unto man whom I have created,

603
00:33:38,320 --> 00:33:40,000
for never has man believed in
me.

604
00:33:40,000 --> 00:33:44,200
As thou hast seest that thou,
that thou, that ye are created

605
00:33:44,200 --> 00:33:48,280
after my own image.
Yeah, even all men were created

606
00:33:48,280 --> 00:33:49,640
in the beginning after my own
image.

607
00:33:50,360 --> 00:33:53,760
And so, OK, I believe in the
Book of Mormon, right?

608
00:33:53,960 --> 00:33:56,520
So Christ is telling you, the
brother of Jared.

609
00:33:56,960 --> 00:33:58,560
I've never shown myself on
demand.

610
00:33:59,160 --> 00:34:02,880
Is that problematic?
The way I reconcile that, oh,

611
00:34:02,880 --> 00:34:04,560
does that mean no one had ever
seen Christ?

612
00:34:05,760 --> 00:34:11,040
I would say that if God had
revealed Christ to some

613
00:34:11,040 --> 00:34:14,000
patriarchs, then that wouldn't
contradict this.

614
00:34:14,000 --> 00:34:15,760
Nope.
No, but because he says.

615
00:34:15,760 --> 00:34:19,120
I've never shown myself, I've
never introduced myself, but we

616
00:34:19,120 --> 00:34:20,679
see a pattern in the scriptures
in.

617
00:34:21,840 --> 00:34:23,639
The new.
Testament in the Book of Mormon,

618
00:34:25,960 --> 00:34:29,520
Joseph Smith, right, the
father's introducing the son and

619
00:34:29,520 --> 00:34:33,719
testifying of the son, right?
And so that would not break this

620
00:34:33,719 --> 00:34:36,400
pattern.
In fact, this is the break in

621
00:34:36,400 --> 00:34:40,400
the pattern that the brother of
Jared is seeing Christ introduce

622
00:34:40,400 --> 00:34:43,040
himself and that's why.
Christ goes out of his way to

623
00:34:43,040 --> 00:34:45,960
say right.
Never before have I shown.

624
00:34:45,960 --> 00:34:47,440
Myself on.
It so.

625
00:34:47,960 --> 00:34:50,600
Enoch would not be seeing
Christ, who has in this

626
00:34:50,600 --> 00:34:53,320
instance, who has never revealed
himself, right.

627
00:34:53,520 --> 00:34:56,360
Nope, that makes sense also.
This is a hang up scripture of

628
00:34:56,360 --> 00:34:59,800
some people with weird
trinitarian adjacent ideas.

629
00:34:59,800 --> 00:35:04,640
Sure, but using Christ's own
words to define what he means by

630
00:35:04,640 --> 00:35:07,680
I am the Father and the Son.
He qualifies that in this

631
00:35:07,880 --> 00:35:11,200
passage we just read He says
they shall become my sons and my

632
00:35:11,200 --> 00:35:12,640
daughters.
That's.

633
00:35:13,280 --> 00:35:16,560
Right, it's right there.
I am the father because they

634
00:35:16,560 --> 00:35:20,240
shall become, not that they are,
because we're not right yet.

635
00:35:21,400 --> 00:35:22,840
Right in the process of
becoming.

636
00:35:22,920 --> 00:35:26,880
Yep.
OK, and so he defines the term

637
00:35:27,000 --> 00:35:27,600
right.
I see.

638
00:35:27,640 --> 00:35:29,040
I.
Really agree he's defining.

639
00:35:29,040 --> 00:35:30,880
Yep.
What he means by he's the Father

640
00:35:30,880 --> 00:35:36,000
and the Son, Brigham Young said.
I will tell you about the God

641
00:35:36,000 --> 00:35:40,280
with which you and I worship.
It is a being that was on an

642
00:35:40,280 --> 00:35:43,680
earth like this.
He had been clothed in mortality

643
00:35:43,680 --> 00:35:47,800
the same as we have been, and he
has had devils to fight the same

644
00:35:47,800 --> 00:35:50,080
as we have.
But I do not expect that they

645
00:35:50,080 --> 00:35:51,520
were the same devils that we
have.

646
00:35:52,200 --> 00:35:55,440
That God says that I am your God
and there is none else.

647
00:35:55,640 --> 00:35:57,640
Let us worship Him and none
else.

648
00:35:57,960 --> 00:36:00,520
He is the God that we have, no
matter what gods.

649
00:36:00,600 --> 00:36:03,600
Enoch saw when the heavens were
opened unto him, if the God that

650
00:36:03,600 --> 00:36:06,600
he saw have been exalted
1,000,000 millions of years

651
00:36:06,600 --> 00:36:10,320
before our God was, he also
would have had to occupy an

652
00:36:10,320 --> 00:36:13,840
earth like ourselves.
And we shall find out at some

653
00:36:13,840 --> 00:36:16,400
period.
And this is all the mystery

654
00:36:16,400 --> 00:36:18,920
there is about it.
And if we are faithful, we in

655
00:36:18,920 --> 00:36:20,920
our turn shall be exalted and
become gods.

656
00:36:20,920 --> 00:36:23,600
And there will be no mystery
about about it when we

657
00:36:23,600 --> 00:36:27,200
understand it.
So he's under he's addressing

658
00:36:27,200 --> 00:36:29,240
the Adam God doctrine there
because he's been teaching the

659
00:36:29,240 --> 00:36:32,480
Adam God doctrine for publicly
for eight years by the point

660
00:36:32,480 --> 00:36:37,560
that he gave that little excerpt
and he's kind of addressing what

661
00:36:37,560 --> 00:36:40,840
probably was brought up, right?
You know, how is this work with

662
00:36:40,840 --> 00:36:42,240
what Enoch?
And he says it doesn't matter

663
00:36:42,240 --> 00:36:45,200
what God's Enoch saw, right?
You know.

664
00:36:45,240 --> 00:36:47,720
Our God, it was exalted on the
same principle.

665
00:36:47,720 --> 00:36:50,240
The gods that Enoch saw were
exalted upon the same principle.

666
00:36:50,240 --> 00:36:52,480
Doesn't matter if it was a
million years before our God was

667
00:36:52,480 --> 00:36:55,080
exalted, we're going to be in
the same position.

668
00:36:55,240 --> 00:36:56,960
So his.
Answer was pretty much close to

669
00:36:56,960 --> 00:36:58,720
what I was.
Yeah, doesn't really matter.

670
00:36:58,960 --> 00:37:02,080
Absolutely, yeah.
It's a family, it's a family

671
00:37:02,280 --> 00:37:06,840
business, a family affair.
So walking with God is

672
00:37:06,840 --> 00:37:11,040
interesting.
So Abraham says, Abraham says

673
00:37:11,040 --> 00:37:14,360
something like this is the God
before whom I walk.

674
00:37:15,280 --> 00:37:16,920
And that's.
Different than walking with God

675
00:37:17,160 --> 00:37:21,360
a little, right?
And so walking with God denotes

676
00:37:21,840 --> 00:37:24,840
not that Abraham wasn't
extremely righteous, but Enoch,

677
00:37:25,880 --> 00:37:29,560
you know, being extremely
righteous, that God walks with

678
00:37:29,560 --> 00:37:37,040
him as well, and that Enoch is
also a celestial traveller, just

679
00:37:37,040 --> 00:37:39,960
as God is.
Interesting that's.

680
00:37:40,000 --> 00:37:43,840
Yeah, that's an interesting way
to define that term, right, Is

681
00:37:43,840 --> 00:37:46,800
now that Enoch walking with God
isn't just, oh, I've talked to

682
00:37:46,800 --> 00:37:50,880
him, but I'm walking about the
universe just the same as God

683
00:37:50,880 --> 00:37:54,160
does, because you're seeing
everything gets taken into

684
00:37:54,160 --> 00:37:57,200
heaven and all the literature
that we're going to get into.

685
00:37:57,760 --> 00:38:00,640
That's a big theme.
So let me ask you this then.

686
00:38:00,640 --> 00:38:03,360
Where does that place Enoch?
Does that mean that he's

687
00:38:03,480 --> 00:38:06,080
translated?
Does that mean he's resurrected?

688
00:38:06,520 --> 00:38:09,080
I mean, what does that mean if
he's walking in the same place

689
00:38:09,080 --> 00:38:11,280
as God is?
It's a great question.

690
00:38:12,720 --> 00:38:14,800
There's some implications to
that statement.

691
00:38:15,280 --> 00:38:18,000
The literature.
Straight up.

692
00:38:18,040 --> 00:38:22,160
Insinuates he's exalted the way
that we would term it.

693
00:38:23,040 --> 00:38:24,800
I'm not talking about what
Joseph Smith taught, but I'm

694
00:38:24,800 --> 00:38:26,880
talking about what the
pseudepigraphal stuff says.

695
00:38:27,960 --> 00:38:31,640
Enoch is straight up exalted, is
the way that we have to describe

696
00:38:31,640 --> 00:38:34,360
how it's.
But we know talking about it, we

697
00:38:34,360 --> 00:38:37,360
do know he was born here.
Oh yes, yes.

698
00:38:37,720 --> 00:38:39,440
Which is even.
More interesting, right, Because

699
00:38:39,960 --> 00:38:43,000
it is, it's deification or
apotheosis, you know, early

700
00:38:43,000 --> 00:38:45,280
Christianity.
Absolutely.

701
00:38:45,360 --> 00:38:46,440
Yeah.
We're going to talk a lot about

702
00:38:46,440 --> 00:38:49,160
that.
But yeah, so Joseph Smith said

703
00:38:49,200 --> 00:38:54,480
Enoch's in a translated state.
He also said that that's a there

704
00:38:54,640 --> 00:38:58,040
it's not the final state that
there has to be another

705
00:38:58,320 --> 00:39:00,920
transition to, you know, a
fullness of glory.

706
00:39:00,920 --> 00:39:02,280
We just don't know what that
looks like.

707
00:39:03,040 --> 00:39:05,920
I kind of take the stance
personally, like, OK, maybe that

708
00:39:05,920 --> 00:39:09,160
has happened.
I don't know, or something close

709
00:39:09,160 --> 00:39:10,160
to it.
Maybe not fully.

710
00:39:10,160 --> 00:39:14,880
Maybe he can't fully attain to
the all the privileges of the

711
00:39:14,880 --> 00:39:18,840
godhead in his own sphere
because this work hasn't been

712
00:39:18,840 --> 00:39:22,840
done on this earth yet.
But he's essentially the got the

713
00:39:22,840 --> 00:39:25,120
promise of it at the very least,
right.

714
00:39:26,240 --> 00:39:32,280
So as far as his actual state, I
couldn't tell you besides that

715
00:39:32,280 --> 00:39:36,800
he has been translated.
Maybe a step beyond that, maybe

716
00:39:36,880 --> 00:39:41,560
in queue to active God Mode,
right?

717
00:39:41,720 --> 00:39:43,600
Right, right.
OK.

718
00:39:43,920 --> 00:39:45,800
You know, because.
The Christ hasn't even received

719
00:39:45,800 --> 00:39:49,480
the fullness, and he presents
his Kingdom to the godhood in.

720
00:39:49,480 --> 00:39:53,520
Ezra, Right, Right.
But yeah, I just.

721
00:39:53,520 --> 00:39:57,640
Thought that was fascinating to
define that walking with God as

722
00:39:57,880 --> 00:40:00,240
Enoch being the celestial
traveler All right I'm going to

723
00:40:00,240 --> 00:40:03,760
read some of from a scholarly
article on the books of Enoch

724
00:40:03,840 --> 00:40:12,440
and I this was from what was it
called this is a paper called

725
00:40:12,440 --> 00:40:15,720
the evolution of the patriarch
Enoch in Jewish tradition by a

726
00:40:15,720 --> 00:40:18,120
guy named Miller so the.
Book.

727
00:40:18,120 --> 00:40:21,000
Before we jump into that, the
the Books of Enoch, the first

728
00:40:21,000 --> 00:40:24,480
book of Enoch, the what we call
one Enoch or first Enoch, the

729
00:40:24,480 --> 00:40:27,480
Ethiopian version, it's the
oldest one that we're aware of.

730
00:40:29,320 --> 00:40:33,800
It's got like parts like other
books within the book, right?

731
00:40:34,000 --> 00:40:38,040
So we have something called the
astronomical book, which is

732
00:40:38,880 --> 00:40:42,480
probably the oldest or among the
oldest literature, which some

733
00:40:42,480 --> 00:40:48,240
people think is about 300 BC.
OK, other elements were written

734
00:40:48,240 --> 00:40:50,880
more like 100 BC, and it all
gets stitched together, right?

735
00:40:51,080 --> 00:40:53,560
It's like a complete thing,
probably by the time of Christ.

736
00:40:53,960 --> 00:40:56,480
But it's written on that
spectrum between 300 and 100,

737
00:40:57,200 --> 00:41:01,400
the 1st century BC, right?
So astronomical book.

738
00:41:02,000 --> 00:41:04,680
There's a book of similitudes,
there's the Book of Noah,

739
00:41:05,560 --> 00:41:09,600
there's what was called the
animal apocalypse, and then

740
00:41:09,600 --> 00:41:11,320
there's parables.
There might be others, I don't

741
00:41:11,320 --> 00:41:14,680
recall any case, the scholar guy
says.

742
00:41:14,800 --> 00:41:18,240
In the astronomical book, which
is first Enoch chapter 72

743
00:41:18,240 --> 00:41:22,760
through 82, also known as the
Book of the Luminaries, we learn

744
00:41:23,200 --> 00:41:25,720
what may have meant the Enoch
walk with God.

745
00:41:26,440 --> 00:41:29,480
Here we follow him on an
angelically guided tour of the

746
00:41:29,480 --> 00:41:32,400
heavenly sphere.
The angels meticulously this

747
00:41:32,800 --> 00:41:36,480
meticulously describe the
celestial mechanics, the laws of

748
00:41:36,480 --> 00:41:40,360
the sun and the moon, their
phases and time keeping, along

749
00:41:40,360 --> 00:41:42,680
with a prediction that in the
days of the sinners, the

750
00:41:42,680 --> 00:41:46,680
heavenly bodies will begin to
fall out of phase and an

751
00:41:46,680 --> 00:41:49,600
evolving chaos will envelope the
earth as both nature and

752
00:41:49,600 --> 00:41:52,480
humanity grow out of sync with
their prescribed order.

753
00:41:52,560 --> 00:41:54,720
This is the stuff that all the
Christians hated, right?

754
00:41:55,200 --> 00:41:57,960
That stuff.
Once Enoch is LED away from

755
00:41:57,960 --> 00:42:00,800
God's presence, he witnesses
again the basic mechanics of the

756
00:42:00,800 --> 00:42:04,360
universe, the places where the
winds are stored, the foundation

757
00:42:04,360 --> 00:42:07,600
of the earth and the and the
cornerstones of heaven and the

758
00:42:07,600 --> 00:42:10,480
paths of the angels.
The place of the punishment for

759
00:42:10,480 --> 00:42:14,240
rebellious stars, which deviated
from God's timetable, the

760
00:42:14,240 --> 00:42:17,600
captivity of wicked angels and
the enclosures for human souls

761
00:42:17,600 --> 00:42:19,840
where their spirits are
separated into good and evil

762
00:42:19,840 --> 00:42:23,640
until the great day of judgment.
So yeah, there's like this idea,

763
00:42:24,000 --> 00:42:26,520
for example, there's like
heavenly storehouses that

764
00:42:26,520 --> 00:42:30,320
contain things like wind, rain,
the elements.

765
00:42:30,800 --> 00:42:34,200
He sees these things, you know,
they're putting it, you know,

766
00:42:34,400 --> 00:42:38,200
the author is putting into terms
that we don't understand that

767
00:42:38,320 --> 00:42:43,160
right now, but you know, and we
have other ways of describing

768
00:42:43,160 --> 00:42:44,720
that, right?
But that's what he's.

769
00:42:44,840 --> 00:42:46,120
That's what he had.
Yeah, the idea.

770
00:42:46,120 --> 00:42:48,920
Is that Yeah, he's being shown
just the way nature works,

771
00:42:49,000 --> 00:42:51,680
right?
Right through all of.

772
00:42:51,680 --> 00:42:55,200
This he is guided by angels who
write down information for him

773
00:42:55,200 --> 00:42:58,840
and answer his questions.
Enoch is relentlessly curious,

774
00:42:58,880 --> 00:43:01,960
repeatedly probing the angels
for information about the things

775
00:43:01,960 --> 00:43:05,800
that he sees, and it provides a
new take on the origin of evil.

776
00:43:06,160 --> 00:43:10,320
No longer are Adam and Eve to
blame, but the fallen angels who

777
00:43:10,320 --> 00:43:13,440
led humanity astray.
These elements, which present a

778
00:43:13,440 --> 00:43:16,840
challenge to the received
biblical tradition, indicate an

779
00:43:16,840 --> 00:43:20,320
outsider nature typical of
apocalyptic literature, which

780
00:43:20,320 --> 00:43:24,040
finds fault in the world and
contemporaneous society.

781
00:43:24,040 --> 00:43:26,960
And it is not surprising that we
find the literature among the

782
00:43:26,960 --> 00:43:30,560
separatist Qumran community.
Dead Sea Scrolls, right?

783
00:43:31,360 --> 00:43:34,240
He travels through the heavens,
witnessing secrets unknown by

784
00:43:34,240 --> 00:43:37,320
other humans.
He is the scribe, recording the

785
00:43:37,320 --> 00:43:41,040
order of the cosmos and history,
and absorbing the angelic duty

786
00:43:41,040 --> 00:43:43,680
of documenting the actions of
human beings.

787
00:43:43,680 --> 00:43:47,560
So after going through with the
angels who are writing things

788
00:43:47,560 --> 00:43:49,920
down, he kind of takes up the
scribal role, right?

789
00:43:51,280 --> 00:43:54,560
Continuing, he says he is
righteous and has a special role

790
00:43:54,560 --> 00:43:56,960
in regard to the righteous.
Who can be?

791
00:43:57,000 --> 00:44:00,640
Identified as the People of
Israel, or at least those among

792
00:44:00,640 --> 00:44:04,760
them who obediently keep God's
laws, there is a primordial

793
00:44:04,760 --> 00:44:08,720
placement in which he was
intended to to fulfill as this

794
00:44:08,720 --> 00:44:12,320
righteous and chosen exemplar,
which has by the time of the

795
00:44:12,320 --> 00:44:15,720
similitudes a hint of angelic
status which positions him as a

796
00:44:15,720 --> 00:44:19,680
judge of humankind and an
inaugurator, inaugurator of the

797
00:44:20,000 --> 00:44:22,880
of the end of days.
From the second.

798
00:44:22,880 --> 00:44:27,360
Century BC onwards, the assault
of the unrighteous grows, as

799
00:44:27,360 --> 00:44:30,400
does the description of their
punishment, indicating the

800
00:44:30,400 --> 00:44:32,240
tension which the authors
perceive in the world.

801
00:44:32,480 --> 00:44:36,920
So like, you know, break there.
If this is being written 2nd

802
00:44:36,920 --> 00:44:40,120
century, 1st century BC, what's
happening in Judea?

803
00:44:41,000 --> 00:44:44,320
1st and 2nd century Judea.
They're under Roman occupation,

804
00:44:44,320 --> 00:44:46,600
right?
And you have all these different

805
00:44:46,600 --> 00:44:48,120
sects of Judaism.
Right.

806
00:44:48,120 --> 00:44:51,080
You got the atheists, you got
the Pharisees, the Pharisees,

807
00:44:51,080 --> 00:44:53,480
Sadducees.
I think this is the same time

808
00:44:53,480 --> 00:44:58,560
where the the the well Gnostics
are starting to come to play.

809
00:44:58,640 --> 00:45:03,080
All these groups out there and
they're all claiming to be the

810
00:45:03,080 --> 00:45:09,480
inheritor of the truth and so
and the other sex are bad and

811
00:45:09,480 --> 00:45:12,000
they're and they're apostate and
they're corrupting it and some

812
00:45:12,000 --> 00:45:14,200
cases that was probably true.
And so that's the way that the

813
00:45:14,200 --> 00:45:17,840
Qumran community would the
Essenes and others associate

814
00:45:17,840 --> 00:45:18,680
with.
That's how they look.

815
00:45:18,680 --> 00:45:22,960
They were the the, the, the
righteous recluses and prophets

816
00:45:22,960 --> 00:45:25,280
who had left the society and
were waiting for Babylon to be

817
00:45:25,280 --> 00:45:27,200
destroyed.
And then they'd go back and

818
00:45:27,200 --> 00:45:29,360
build up a heavenly Jerusalem on
earth, right?

819
00:45:29,800 --> 00:45:31,120
But the new temple and all of
that.

820
00:45:31,120 --> 00:45:33,920
You know this.
Is fascinating and I feel like

821
00:45:33,920 --> 00:45:38,120
that this has some some very
pointed commentary that we as

822
00:45:38,120 --> 00:45:40,640
fundamentalists need to make
make note of.

823
00:45:41,160 --> 00:45:46,400
Right, because with and, and
Justin Franken and I, I just

824
00:45:46,400 --> 00:45:51,960
released an episode this
Saturday about the splits in, in

825
00:45:51,960 --> 00:45:56,480
Christianity, right?
And it's eerily similar, right?

826
00:45:56,480 --> 00:45:59,240
Eerily similar to what we have
in Mormonism today.

827
00:45:59,960 --> 00:46:03,400
But with the Asceans, the
Gnostics, those folks out there

828
00:46:03,400 --> 00:46:06,080
and come wrong.
What you get is that you get a

829
00:46:06,080 --> 00:46:08,600
people that says no, no, no,
we're we're going to go do it

830
00:46:09,040 --> 00:46:12,520
the right way.
The unfortunate part is their

831
00:46:12,520 --> 00:46:15,400
right way isn't always so right
either, right?

832
00:46:15,680 --> 00:46:18,720
And I think that we need to be
very careful as fundamentalist

833
00:46:18,720 --> 00:46:20,800
that we don't fall into that
same trap.

834
00:46:20,880 --> 00:46:23,520
Some have and and some have,
right?

835
00:46:23,520 --> 00:46:29,160
We got to be very careful that
that that we don't just say,

836
00:46:29,160 --> 00:46:32,400
well, we're apart from them.
So that must make us right

837
00:46:32,720 --> 00:46:35,880
because that's a very shaky
standard to be using.

838
00:46:36,040 --> 00:46:38,680
Yep, but on.
The same hand I get separating

839
00:46:38,680 --> 00:46:41,920
yourself and saying I want to do
right and I can't do right if

840
00:46:41,920 --> 00:46:44,160
I'm associated with these guys,
so I want to leave.

841
00:46:44,240 --> 00:46:44,760
No, no.
I.

842
00:46:44,760 --> 00:46:46,880
I agree with the separation
portion.

843
00:46:47,000 --> 00:46:50,760
What I don't, what I what I'm
always careful of, is separation

844
00:46:50,760 --> 00:46:53,640
does not necessarily mean
correctness.

845
00:46:54,120 --> 00:46:56,160
Right do correct.
To be correct, you have to.

846
00:46:56,160 --> 00:46:57,840
Be correct in order to be
correct.

847
00:46:58,080 --> 00:47:01,640
And that's that's where I think
the warning should come in with

848
00:47:01,640 --> 00:47:03,600
fundamentalists, right.
I'm not saying that that we

849
00:47:03,600 --> 00:47:05,480
shouldn't have broken with the
LDS church.

850
00:47:05,880 --> 00:47:09,880
I'm just saying that we need to
be very careful that we don't

851
00:47:09,880 --> 00:47:13,960
use the separation as the litmus
test for what is correct.

852
00:47:13,960 --> 00:47:16,720
No, but we.
We are following kind of some of

853
00:47:16,720 --> 00:47:21,400
the same ground there, right,
with, you know, we're analogous

854
00:47:21,400 --> 00:47:25,520
to the Essenes to the Pharisees
in a sense coming out of the

855
00:47:25,520 --> 00:47:28,560
church, right, or Sadducees,
whatever parallel you want to

856
00:47:28,560 --> 00:47:30,560
make, right?
It's.

857
00:47:30,560 --> 00:47:34,600
Yeah, it's fascinating to me to
and and if once we're done with

858
00:47:34,600 --> 00:47:37,400
this series, however long it
goes, I would even love to do a

859
00:47:37,400 --> 00:47:40,280
dive on the Judaic sex of this
time.

860
00:47:40,360 --> 00:47:42,920
Absolutely too.
That that'd be super fun to me.

861
00:47:44,600 --> 00:47:47,600
But yeah, so you see, in First
Enoch, it's all hell, fire and

862
00:47:47,600 --> 00:47:52,000
damnation because the people who
are holding this book of

863
00:47:52,000 --> 00:47:56,280
Scripture are anticipating God's
impending judgement on all of

864
00:47:56,280 --> 00:47:59,360
the guys who are wrong, you
know, all the other groups.

865
00:47:59,600 --> 00:48:02,960
You know, it's straight up dude,
it's so this guy, you know, back

866
00:48:02,960 --> 00:48:06,480
to the article, right?
Is as the assault of the

867
00:48:06,480 --> 00:48:10,280
unrighteousness grow, which is
all the apostates, if not also

868
00:48:10,280 --> 00:48:14,280
the Roman oppressors, right?
The description of their

869
00:48:14,280 --> 00:48:16,400
punishment grows in the
literature, right?

870
00:48:17,080 --> 00:48:18,720
Those those two things are
related.

871
00:48:18,720 --> 00:48:21,840
The unrighteousness growing in
the punishment also becomes more

872
00:48:21,840 --> 00:48:24,960
severe, indicating the tension
which the authors perceived in

873
00:48:24,960 --> 00:48:26,800
their world.
The land of Israel was in

874
00:48:26,800 --> 00:48:29,800
turmoil at this time, subject to
conquest after conquest,

875
00:48:30,280 --> 00:48:34,560
conquest as the people suffered
under the harsh vicissitudes of

876
00:48:34,560 --> 00:48:36,920
different rulers.
The authors are keen to see the

877
00:48:36,920 --> 00:48:40,240
final judgement, when God will
reward the faithful and punish

878
00:48:40,240 --> 00:48:43,760
those who persecuted them.
We also see that the person and

879
00:48:43,760 --> 00:48:47,120
nature of Enoch grows more
central as the textual tradition

880
00:48:47,120 --> 00:48:50,000
evolves.
Where the astrological book and

881
00:48:50,000 --> 00:48:52,440
the Book of the Watchers, that's
another one of the books.

882
00:48:52,640 --> 00:48:55,000
Yeah.
The Book of the Watchers in

883
00:48:55,000 --> 00:48:59,520
First Enoch are principally
concerned with the cosmos, and

884
00:48:59,520 --> 00:49:01,920
Enoch functions as a messenger
and recorder of certain

885
00:49:01,920 --> 00:49:04,240
revelations.
By the time of the Book of

886
00:49:04,240 --> 00:49:07,720
Similitudes, it is he as the
chosen one who has become the

887
00:49:07,720 --> 00:49:11,640
subject of revelation, the one
hidden before time, who will

888
00:49:11,640 --> 00:49:14,000
only be revealed when his
influence is required.

889
00:49:14,120 --> 00:49:16,560
So that's where he kind of
assumes the Son of Man, right

890
00:49:16,720 --> 00:49:20,480
Mantle, right?
And while the first booklets

891
00:49:20,480 --> 00:49:23,760
place Enoch as a witness and
recorder of the sins and virtues

892
00:49:23,760 --> 00:49:28,280
of human beings, by the latest
he himself enacts the judgement

893
00:49:28,280 --> 00:49:30,240
for those actions.
So he goes from being the

894
00:49:30,240 --> 00:49:34,920
witness of the virtues and and
vices to being the the guy who

895
00:49:34,920 --> 00:49:36,680
deals out the judgement in the
end.

896
00:49:36,760 --> 00:49:38,680
Enoch does.
Yeah, in this literature.

897
00:49:40,280 --> 00:49:41,960
And you kind of see that
spectrum.

898
00:49:42,000 --> 00:49:45,120
It's not just in first Enoch,
but like, it becomes more

899
00:49:45,120 --> 00:49:48,840
pronounced right throughout all
three, you know, first one, 1-2

900
00:49:48,840 --> 00:49:52,040
and three Enoch.
The purpose of Enoch's elevation

901
00:49:52,040 --> 00:49:55,320
is unremarked until on the brink
of the 7th heaven, Gabriel

902
00:49:55,320 --> 00:49:58,720
commands him to stand up and
come with him and stand in the

903
00:49:58,720 --> 00:50:03,520
face of the Lord forever.
And this is a quote in order to

904
00:50:03,520 --> 00:50:05,680
be presented before God.
No, I guess it's not.

905
00:50:06,240 --> 00:50:09,360
I just have it in bold here.
In order to be presented before

906
00:50:09,360 --> 00:50:13,160
God, Enoch is redressed in
clothes, in clothes of glory and

907
00:50:13,160 --> 00:50:17,880
anointed, whereby I had become
like one of his glorious ones.

908
00:50:18,080 --> 00:50:21,080
That's a quote, and there was no
observable difference.

909
00:50:22,040 --> 00:50:23,600
The.
Identification with the angelic

910
00:50:23,600 --> 00:50:26,480
host is foreshadowed in the
previous literature, but from

911
00:50:26,480 --> 00:50:29,040
this point Enoch takes on a
primordial function which

912
00:50:29,040 --> 00:50:31,280
quickly surpasses what we might
have expected.

913
00:50:31,720 --> 00:50:34,240
Initially.
He has made a recorder, writing

914
00:50:34,240 --> 00:50:37,640
the entire course of history,
natural and human, the fate of

915
00:50:37,640 --> 00:50:40,880
All Souls and even every
language and the rules that

916
00:50:40,880 --> 00:50:44,160
humanity lives by.
After this indoctrination, God

917
00:50:44,160 --> 00:50:46,960
personally begins to educate
Enoch and shares with him the

918
00:50:46,960 --> 00:50:50,120
secrets of the process of
creation to which not even the

919
00:50:50,120 --> 00:50:53,160
angels were Privy.
Enoch now knows everything.

920
00:50:53,640 --> 00:50:56,200
He reels off a list of His
knowledge which encompasses both

921
00:50:56,200 --> 00:50:59,400
time and space for either or
either the from the lips of the

922
00:50:59,400 --> 00:51:01,520
Lord, or else.
My eyes have seen from the

923
00:51:01,520 --> 00:51:04,760
beginning even to the end, the
heavens in their boundaries and

924
00:51:04,760 --> 00:51:07,240
their contents.
Enoch.

925
00:51:07,320 --> 00:51:10,840
Has again undergone a physical
transformation in his encounter

926
00:51:10,840 --> 00:51:13,880
with God when he returns to the
world having completed his

927
00:51:13,880 --> 00:51:16,320
testimony.
I love this part.

928
00:51:16,520 --> 00:51:20,320
His face is chilled in order
that humans can safely look at

929
00:51:20,320 --> 00:51:22,040
him chilled.
So.

930
00:51:22,040 --> 00:51:22,880
He.
Yeah.

931
00:51:23,560 --> 00:51:26,200
And there's two, you know,
that's not the part that I

932
00:51:26,200 --> 00:51:29,040
recalled when I first read that
passage, but I that part, that

933
00:51:29,040 --> 00:51:31,800
passage when I was reading the
first book of Enoch, distinctly

934
00:51:32,880 --> 00:51:36,760
stuck out to me because it's
actually his face is also

935
00:51:36,760 --> 00:51:38,720
chilled when he gets into the
presence of God.

936
00:51:39,880 --> 00:51:42,800
And I'm like, oh.
Well, he has to be preserved

937
00:51:42,800 --> 00:51:45,040
because God's face is burning
glory, right?

938
00:51:45,040 --> 00:51:47,080
So to his face is he's
transfigured.

939
00:51:47,080 --> 00:51:49,560
That's where you put it, right?
And then when he goes back to

940
00:51:49,560 --> 00:51:56,320
earth, he's shining like Moses,
and he has to be chilled so he

941
00:51:56,320 --> 00:52:00,120
doesn't irritate them or, you
know, whatever, you know what I

942
00:52:00,120 --> 00:52:03,040
mean, so that they can even look
at him because they can't even

943
00:52:03,040 --> 00:52:05,600
they can't behold the glory
that's on Enoch when he returns

944
00:52:05,600 --> 00:52:07,080
from heaven.
This is the.

945
00:52:07,080 --> 00:52:11,480
Stuff where I, I start to
wonder, am I really going to

946
00:52:11,480 --> 00:52:13,040
make it?
Because my first thought is, is

947
00:52:13,040 --> 00:52:16,160
that you got guys just down
there in Enoch City working and

948
00:52:16,160 --> 00:52:19,200
then Enoch comes back and he's
maybe unaware that he's like

949
00:52:19,200 --> 00:52:22,360
shining and everyone's just kind
of looking away and causes some

950
00:52:22,360 --> 00:52:23,960
self-conscious kind of things
and.

951
00:52:24,720 --> 00:52:27,280
And once he has declared his
moral missive, the people

952
00:52:27,280 --> 00:52:29,720
embrace him and adorn him with
yet another accolade.

953
00:52:30,120 --> 00:52:33,240
Now he is the one who carries
away the sin of mankind.

954
00:52:33,720 --> 00:52:37,080
This salvific role, while a
logical conclusion from his

955
00:52:37,080 --> 00:52:39,800
capacity in prescribing
righteous behavior, is yet

956
00:52:39,800 --> 00:52:42,760
another step forward to a nature
which could not have been

957
00:52:42,760 --> 00:52:44,200
predicted from the earliest
books.

958
00:52:44,200 --> 00:52:47,680
He is no longer a human taken to
heaven and transformed into an

959
00:52:47,680 --> 00:52:51,280
Angel, but a celestial being
exalted above the angelic world.

960
00:52:52,840 --> 00:52:55,960
And so.
Bearing in mind so there's a

961
00:52:55,960 --> 00:52:57,320
definite.
Deification.

962
00:52:57,320 --> 00:52:58,720
No, there's a straight up, it's
going.

963
00:52:58,720 --> 00:53:01,360
To get heavy too.
We're not even fully there yet.

964
00:53:01,360 --> 00:53:05,400
But it's in an age, right?
We're talking about when this

965
00:53:05,400 --> 00:53:08,320
book is being written like 2
centuries before Christ under

966
00:53:08,320 --> 00:53:11,360
Roman occupation.
What were the Jews looking for?

967
00:53:12,040 --> 00:53:13,880
They were looking for a
political Messiah.

968
00:53:13,880 --> 00:53:17,120
They were looking for one who
would Vanquish the Romans,

969
00:53:17,520 --> 00:53:20,280
reinstate the rule of the of the
House of David.

970
00:53:20,560 --> 00:53:23,720
And so the Enoch becomes the
figure in the pictures being

971
00:53:23,720 --> 00:53:25,640
used because this was scripture
at this point.

972
00:53:25,920 --> 00:53:27,840
Maybe it was debated in some
schools.

973
00:53:27,840 --> 00:53:29,960
Maybe the Pharisees didn't like
it, for example.

974
00:53:30,480 --> 00:53:33,160
I can almost guarantee you the
Sadducees probably hated it.

975
00:53:33,760 --> 00:53:37,040
The scenes loved it.
But in any case, Enoch is being,

976
00:53:38,000 --> 00:53:40,840
you know, assigned the Messiah
role that they're waiting for.

977
00:53:42,040 --> 00:53:47,080
It's also interesting that there
might be other utility, so to

978
00:53:47,080 --> 00:53:50,920
speak, in making this book of
Enoch for them.

979
00:53:50,920 --> 00:53:53,160
Because what were the Sadducees
all about?

980
00:53:53,160 --> 00:53:56,040
They're about Law of Moses, Law
of Moses, Law of Moses, if they

981
00:53:56,040 --> 00:53:59,360
can ascribe an authority to
themselves that predates Moses

982
00:53:59,880 --> 00:54:02,120
and say our authority comes from
Enoch.

983
00:54:03,200 --> 00:54:05,400
They can.
Supersede the other guys that

984
00:54:05,400 --> 00:54:07,080
they don't agree with in
Jerusalem saying we're

985
00:54:07,080 --> 00:54:10,880
following, we're following Moses
because the priesthood of the

986
00:54:10,880 --> 00:54:13,520
Levites was yeah, anyways, we're
going to.

987
00:54:14,000 --> 00:54:16,400
So is there?
Any scholarly work to give

988
00:54:16,400 --> 00:54:18,440
credence to that thought?
Yeah, I read some of.

989
00:54:18,440 --> 00:54:20,240
It I don't have it quoted here
too, but that's why I'm bringing

990
00:54:20,240 --> 00:54:24,920
it up because you have in the
book, I think it's second Enoch.

991
00:54:24,920 --> 00:54:27,320
I could be wrong on that, but
maybe it's first too.

992
00:54:28,200 --> 00:54:34,200
You have I think it is second
Enoch, second Enoch you have or

993
00:54:34,200 --> 00:54:37,600
is it third?
It's in one of them, but Enoch

994
00:54:37,600 --> 00:54:42,760
goes up to one of the mountains
and or Enoch descends from

995
00:54:42,760 --> 00:54:44,280
heaven on the one on the
mountain.

996
00:54:44,280 --> 00:54:48,960
Someone else is up there, and
Enoch has brought the Torah from

997
00:54:48,960 --> 00:54:51,320
the heavens.
And so that.

998
00:54:51,320 --> 00:54:55,800
Is A1 upping of the Moses
tradition, so to speak, that was

999
00:54:55,800 --> 00:54:59,680
prevalent at the time.
That's essentially saying we

1000
00:54:59,680 --> 00:55:02,280
have access to heaven and
heavenly laws.

1001
00:55:02,280 --> 00:55:06,000
Maybe you've changed the Torah.
We have the original that Enoch

1002
00:55:06,000 --> 00:55:08,400
gave us, you know, all those
things.

1003
00:55:08,400 --> 00:55:12,520
And that's the and so you have
this explicit mention of Enoch

1004
00:55:12,520 --> 00:55:15,040
being the 1st to deliver the
Torah in one of those Books of

1005
00:55:15,080 --> 00:55:16,600
Enoch.
To the people.

1006
00:55:16,600 --> 00:55:21,000
So let me ask you this because
this is always where it gets

1007
00:55:21,000 --> 00:55:24,240
dicey, right?
Because we know the book itself

1008
00:55:24,240 --> 00:55:27,200
isn't really written like you
were saying until 200 years

1009
00:55:27,280 --> 00:55:31,640
either side of Christ doesn't
mean the oral tradition wasn't

1010
00:55:31,640 --> 00:55:32,640
true.
That's true.

1011
00:55:32,840 --> 00:55:34,920
Or components.
Of it right Or components of it?

1012
00:55:35,360 --> 00:55:38,000
But still, how much weight do
you give that right?

1013
00:55:38,000 --> 00:55:42,600
I mean because it is coming from
a pseudo pickerful source.

1014
00:55:43,320 --> 00:55:45,720
And on a certain yeah, So on a
certain level, I'm just

1015
00:55:45,720 --> 00:55:48,440
addressing that like scholarly,
like this is what it's being

1016
00:55:48,440 --> 00:55:51,640
used as, to like one up the
claims of the priesthood

1017
00:55:51,640 --> 00:55:55,000
authority that they don't agree
with and and right, because it's

1018
00:55:55,000 --> 00:55:57,240
a.
Anyways I.

1019
00:55:57,240 --> 00:56:03,120
Lost my train of thought there,
but you have a in one of them,

1020
00:56:03,440 --> 00:56:08,480
one of these books, you second
Enoch starts describing one of

1021
00:56:08,480 --> 00:56:14,840
the names Sadiq Zadiq to Enoch,
which means righteous, righteous

1022
00:56:14,840 --> 00:56:17,080
one.
Well, that's Melchizedek, right?

1023
00:56:17,440 --> 00:56:20,720
And so it's also this tradition
that Enoch, Melchizedek

1024
00:56:20,720 --> 00:56:23,920
priesthood were trumping your
Levitical Auronic priesthood.

1025
00:56:23,920 --> 00:56:26,800
OK.
And it's also interesting that

1026
00:56:27,520 --> 00:56:32,560
the Essenes, some of them, I
don't know if all of them were

1027
00:56:32,560 --> 00:56:36,200
this way, but some, you know, I
don't know how much variance

1028
00:56:36,200 --> 00:56:38,600
there was flexibility in that
culture.

1029
00:56:38,600 --> 00:56:42,760
I don't know how correlated it
is to use that word that, you

1030
00:56:42,760 --> 00:56:45,800
know, where everything in the
church today is super, super

1031
00:56:45,800 --> 00:56:47,960
correlated.
I don't know how correlated that

1032
00:56:47,960 --> 00:56:52,360
community was as far as
respecting certain ideas and

1033
00:56:52,360 --> 00:56:55,080
traditions.
But it looks like in that area

1034
00:56:55,880 --> 00:56:58,720
that certain descendants of
Zadok, the priest that was

1035
00:56:58,720 --> 00:57:01,960
priest during David and
Solomon's reign, they had they

1036
00:57:01,960 --> 00:57:04,160
had gotten kicked out from
Jerusalem.

1037
00:57:04,560 --> 00:57:07,800
And that was the line that had
ruled in Jerusalem for forever

1038
00:57:09,160 --> 00:57:14,480
as priests.
And so you had the under the

1039
00:57:14,480 --> 00:57:21,320
Maccabees, a new line was was
put in one, you know, and so you

1040
00:57:21,320 --> 00:57:25,080
have these Zadok is also the
second part of Melchizedek

1041
00:57:25,080 --> 00:57:28,360
Zadok, right?
And so you have the Zadok I

1042
00:57:28,520 --> 00:57:34,440
exile priests saying the Enoch
is the Zadiq, the righteous one.

1043
00:57:34,760 --> 00:57:36,560
Are they claiming Melchizedek
priesthood?

1044
00:57:36,680 --> 00:57:38,800
Or is that how the scholars are
just seeing?

1045
00:57:39,360 --> 00:57:42,320
And maybe there was something
there that there was actually

1046
00:57:42,320 --> 00:57:45,360
Melchizedek priesthood being
restored to the right that did

1047
00:57:45,360 --> 00:57:47,960
supersede.
It's super interesting to put

1048
00:57:47,960 --> 00:57:51,280
these these terms into our the.
Ocular language as Mormons?

1049
00:57:51,560 --> 00:57:54,600
Yeah, absolutely.
Well, the implications are high,

1050
00:57:54,600 --> 00:57:55,440
too.
Yeah.

1051
00:57:56,200 --> 00:57:59,400
I mean the.
Implications are absolutely yeah

1052
00:57:59,400 --> 00:58:00,960
'cause they're.
Talking about an Enoch figure as

1053
00:58:00,960 --> 00:58:03,440
a Messiah, he's being also
associated with Enoch and

1054
00:58:03,440 --> 00:58:05,440
Melchizedek are being associated
together.

1055
00:58:06,640 --> 00:58:09,880
That was another big figure at
the time, you know, and you have

1056
00:58:09,960 --> 00:58:13,760
Paul talking about how
Melchizedek was just the type

1057
00:58:13,760 --> 00:58:16,280
for Christ.
But it's all that Messiah

1058
00:58:16,280 --> 00:58:19,440
imagery.
That's really, that's what their

1059
00:58:19,760 --> 00:58:21,480
focus is at this point.
Well, and.

1060
00:58:21,520 --> 00:58:26,720
And we use the term the Messiah
and we're very specific with it,

1061
00:58:26,920 --> 00:58:30,040
right?
I don't think that that that

1062
00:58:30,040 --> 00:58:34,960
same specificity existed during
this time period, right?

1063
00:58:35,400 --> 00:58:38,600
And so when, when we talk about
the Messiah, we're talking about

1064
00:58:38,600 --> 00:58:43,120
a spiritual deliverer that will
someday be a, a, a physical or

1065
00:58:43,120 --> 00:58:47,160
temporal deliverer.
In the last days, during this

1066
00:58:47,160 --> 00:58:51,520
time, especially around Jesus's
time, they're looking for

1067
00:58:51,520 --> 00:58:53,560
somebody physical.
They, you know, they want

1068
00:58:53,560 --> 00:58:57,560
someone to ride in triumphant
with a sword drawn and to put

1069
00:58:57,560 --> 00:58:59,560
down the oppressors.
Yeah.

1070
00:58:59,560 --> 00:59:02,000
And that's what they expected
Enoch to come and do, although

1071
00:59:02,000 --> 00:59:05,480
there is some intimation that he
was going to do some saving from

1072
00:59:05,480 --> 00:59:07,320
sin there too, from what we were
reading, right.

1073
00:59:07,400 --> 00:59:11,840
So yeah, yeah, he yeah, that he
and but he was also going to be

1074
00:59:11,840 --> 00:59:14,640
completely relentless on the
wicked and the apostates just

1075
00:59:14,640 --> 00:59:21,960
the same.
Second Enoch, this guy says,

1076
00:59:21,960 --> 00:59:26,040
draws significantly on popular
Jewish Jewish philosophy which

1077
00:59:26,040 --> 00:59:28,360
the author recasts in a mythical
setting.

1078
00:59:28,880 --> 00:59:31,240
While the booklets of First
Enoch were preserved by

1079
00:59:31,240 --> 00:59:34,280
sectarians such as the Qumran
community, something which

1080
00:59:34,280 --> 00:59:37,280
indicates outsider background of
a group unhappy with the

1081
00:59:37,280 --> 00:59:40,600
direction of Israel's religion
and offering an alternative

1082
00:59:40,600 --> 00:59:44,600
narrative as we just discussed.
Second, Enoch manages manages to

1083
00:59:44,600 --> 00:59:47,400
take these traditions and
incorporate them into a somewhat

1084
00:59:47,720 --> 00:59:51,040
middle class, Hellenized
atmosphere, which, although

1085
00:59:51,040 --> 00:59:55,280
still not at one with popular
religion in Judea, is relatively

1086
00:59:55,280 --> 00:59:57,800
content with the current state
of society and religion.

1087
00:59:58,280 --> 01:00:01,960
Enoch's testimony does not damn
the unrighteous but encourages

1088
01:00:01,960 --> 01:00:05,040
personal good deeds, and the
fire and brimstone of First

1089
01:00:05,040 --> 01:00:08,360
Enoch's later strata are
replaced with a complex and

1090
01:00:08,360 --> 01:00:11,240
philosophically inclined
depiction of the creation of the

1091
01:00:11,240 --> 01:00:12,880
visible world.
From the.

1092
01:00:12,880 --> 01:00:15,760
Invisible.
This new emphasis, combined with

1093
01:00:15,760 --> 01:00:18,960
a Hellenistic individualism, may
have helped solidify the focus

1094
01:00:18,960 --> 01:00:22,560
on the person of Enoch as a kind
of mediator of redemption.

1095
01:00:23,480 --> 01:00:26,400
The absence of nationalistic
Hebrew history is only part of a

1096
01:00:26,400 --> 01:00:29,560
dynamic which is both personal
and universal.

1097
01:00:30,000 --> 01:00:32,560
However, this development would
not have been possible without

1098
01:00:32,560 --> 01:00:34,440
the transformation that takes
place in the Book of

1099
01:00:34,440 --> 01:00:36,880
Similitudes, which was in First
Enoch.

1100
01:00:37,120 --> 01:00:39,760
For it is only here if that
Enoch first became a person of

1101
01:00:39,760 --> 01:00:42,400
cosmic importance rather than
simply a prophet.

1102
01:00:45,120 --> 01:00:47,760
It is because of Enoch's
elevation to the status of

1103
01:00:47,760 --> 01:00:52,040
Chosen One that he can, in
second Enoch, take the new role

1104
01:00:52,280 --> 01:00:56,720
as one of the heavenly host, a
translation which also pay paves

1105
01:00:56,720 --> 01:01:00,680
the way for later developments.
Let's get this into Third Enoch.

1106
01:01:01,200 --> 01:01:07,760
Third Enoch he gets.
He's basically God at this

1107
01:01:07,760 --> 01:01:09,080
level, right?
And.

1108
01:01:09,240 --> 01:01:13,360
Then he gets a fun name.
Kind of sounds like a

1109
01:01:13,360 --> 01:01:15,720
transformer if the audience
knows what I mean, but they call

1110
01:01:15,720 --> 01:01:17,760
them Metatron.
OK.

1111
01:01:19,240 --> 01:01:25,400
Now this is interesting.
So we all just read this, but at

1112
01:01:25,400 --> 01:01:28,360
some point, Enoch's elevation
into heaven and incorporation

1113
01:01:28,360 --> 01:01:32,560
into the angelic retinue earns
him a new name, Metatron, in the

1114
01:01:32,560 --> 01:01:35,560
most textually solid and
singular work, the Zephyr.

1115
01:01:35,560 --> 01:01:38,440
Heck, a lot.
That's what the that's like the

1116
01:01:38,440 --> 01:01:43,400
book of holy places is what that
translates to, I think, or hecal

1117
01:01:43,600 --> 01:01:47,840
in in this word, Hecalot is a
can mean a palace or a big room

1118
01:01:47,840 --> 01:01:52,840
or a hall or temple.
OK, so in the Sepher Hecalot or

1119
01:01:52,840 --> 01:01:55,240
30 Enoch, that's the scholarly
designation.

1120
01:01:55,240 --> 01:01:59,000
Metatron tells his own history
of having been taken from Earth

1121
01:01:59,000 --> 01:02:03,000
as a human when he was Enoch,
the sole righteous member of his

1122
01:02:03,000 --> 01:02:07,600
generation.
And Rabbi Ishmael, who's writing

1123
01:02:07,600 --> 01:02:11,400
the book, stands mute as
Metatron recounts his blessings,

1124
01:02:12,200 --> 01:02:14,920
saying, With a throne like God's
own.

1125
01:02:15,960 --> 01:02:18,200
Oh, sorry.
With a throne like God's own at

1126
01:02:18,200 --> 01:02:21,240
the entrance to the 7th heaven,
a robe and a crown fashioned by

1127
01:02:21,240 --> 01:02:25,000
God himself, transformed into
fire and made Prince and ruler

1128
01:02:25,000 --> 01:02:27,800
over all angels.
One could.

1129
01:02:27,800 --> 01:02:31,400
Perhaps be forgiven for thinking
Enoch has now reached his apogee

1130
01:02:31,520 --> 01:02:35,520
and if this were not enough, God
titles him the lesser Jehovah.

1131
01:02:37,960 --> 01:02:40,760
So anytime the Tetragrammaton
shows up, I'm just going to say

1132
01:02:40,760 --> 01:02:42,720
Jehovah, you're not going to
catch me saying Yahweh.

1133
01:02:42,720 --> 01:02:46,440
I'm not going to go into why I
just don't like it.

1134
01:02:46,480 --> 01:02:49,520
But so Jehovah.
So he's getting the title Lesser

1135
01:02:49,520 --> 01:02:51,760
Jehovah.
Is he getting called Metatron?

1136
01:02:53,800 --> 01:02:57,360
So third, Enoch is written by a
guy who was born in 90 AD.

1137
01:02:57,640 --> 01:03:02,160
His name is.
We just call him Rabbi Ishmael.

1138
01:03:02,160 --> 01:03:05,560
Was Rabbi Ishmael Ben Joseph
something something?

1139
01:03:05,560 --> 01:03:06,640
Something.
Whatever.

1140
01:03:07,240 --> 01:03:12,120
Born in 9080, so he's right in
the 2nd century after Christ.

1141
01:03:13,080 --> 01:03:17,280
Scholars say that this book 30.
Enoch has undergone multiple

1142
01:03:17,280 --> 01:03:23,200
receptions or redactions at its
essentially at least until 5th

1143
01:03:23,200 --> 01:03:28,920
or 6th century BC or 80, Sorry.
So it's getting toyed with until

1144
01:03:28,920 --> 01:03:32,960
about 580 it's getting.
So it's been altered for 500

1145
01:03:32,960 --> 01:03:34,080
years.
Yeah, at the very.

1146
01:03:34,080 --> 01:03:39,240
Least it's also super convoluted
in my period and like in my

1147
01:03:39,240 --> 01:03:42,720
opinion, I could not get through
it, but there are like 2

1148
01:03:43,080 --> 01:03:45,760
redeeming elements of it I
think.

1149
01:03:47,880 --> 01:03:49,400
Anyways, we'll jump into that in
a second.

1150
01:03:49,400 --> 01:03:54,080
Finishing this this stuff.
Well, actually no pause.

1151
01:03:54,640 --> 01:03:59,880
So Ishmael, Rabbi Ishmael is
taking the role similarly to

1152
01:03:59,880 --> 01:04:03,640
what Enoch is in in First and
2nd Enoch, he's a man being

1153
01:04:03,640 --> 01:04:06,120
taken into the heavens.
By.

1154
01:04:06,120 --> 01:04:10,200
Angels, Michael, Gabriel,
Raphael, seeing God now Ishmael

1155
01:04:10,200 --> 01:04:16,720
is being taken into the presence
of Enoch by angels and Enoch is

1156
01:04:16,720 --> 01:04:20,600
or Metatron is relating how he
came to that position.

1157
01:04:20,880 --> 01:04:23,160
This is talking about
exaltation, right?

1158
01:04:23,640 --> 01:04:25,600
Right in our vernacular
language.

1159
01:04:26,560 --> 01:04:28,800
Yeah, that's one of the
redeeming elements of it.

1160
01:04:31,040 --> 01:04:34,840
And again, the implications are
kind of earth shattering, right?

1161
01:04:34,840 --> 01:04:36,760
They are huge.
They're huge, yeah.

1162
01:04:37,680 --> 01:04:40,240
The things I don't like that's
convoluted about it is it just

1163
01:04:40,240 --> 01:04:45,480
goes through ridiculous amounts
of hierarchies of angels and

1164
01:04:45,480 --> 01:04:49,280
things that are, in my mind,
incomprehensible.

1165
01:04:50,800 --> 01:04:52,840
They're just.
Too complicated to right?

1166
01:04:52,920 --> 01:04:56,000
You know, and maybe it's because
I don't understand Hebrew and

1167
01:04:56,000 --> 01:04:58,440
the translation, a lot of that
is just like literally

1168
01:04:58,440 --> 01:05:01,720
transliterated into English and
like not interpreted.

1169
01:05:01,720 --> 01:05:04,120
Like it's a really strong
translation, like literal

1170
01:05:04,120 --> 01:05:07,200
translation.
So maybe that's part of it.

1171
01:05:09,200 --> 01:05:11,120
I think the answer.
Is you just got to take more

1172
01:05:11,120 --> 01:05:14,000
Hebrew, Michael.
Yeah, I don't want to do it

1173
01:05:14,000 --> 01:05:15,120
that.
Sounds like a lot of work.

1174
01:05:15,120 --> 01:05:18,240
You should do that.
So the guy Miller continues.

1175
01:05:18,240 --> 01:05:21,720
While Enoch was guided around by
heaven by angels in his earlier

1176
01:05:21,720 --> 01:05:24,720
literature, it is now Metatron
who leads the Rabbi Ishmael,

1177
01:05:25,440 --> 01:05:28,280
offering many of the same
visions as he himself had.

1178
01:05:28,440 --> 01:05:31,760
He enumerates leagues of angelic
beings who preside over the

1179
01:05:31,760 --> 01:05:34,560
aspects of heaven, ensuring its
daily functioning.

1180
01:05:34,920 --> 01:05:37,520
The souls of the righteous and
the wicked have not who that

1181
01:05:37,520 --> 01:05:40,800
have not yet been created and
the souls of the patriarchs,

1182
01:05:40,800 --> 01:05:45,160
Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, the
history of Adam or the history

1183
01:05:45,160 --> 01:05:47,640
of humanity from Adam to the
Messiahs.

1184
01:05:48,680 --> 01:05:52,440
And that means Messiah Ben
Joseph and Messiah Ben David or

1185
01:05:52,440 --> 01:05:54,480
Judah.
So that's where you start seeing

1186
01:05:54,480 --> 01:05:58,560
in this start of the community
of the dual Messiah idea there

1187
01:05:58,560 --> 01:06:00,240
that that pops.
I thought that was interesting.

1188
01:06:00,840 --> 01:06:04,160
This is all a long way from the
initial conception of Enoch as

1189
01:06:04,160 --> 01:06:07,280
simply a patriarch, even a
particularly righteous one.

1190
01:06:07,880 --> 01:06:10,760
But we can recall from the
conclusion of similitudes where

1191
01:06:10,760 --> 01:06:14,720
Enoch is named before the sun
and the moon were created and by

1192
01:06:14,720 --> 01:06:19,360
the time of second Enoch, he is
who would heal humanity's primal

1193
01:06:19,360 --> 01:06:22,320
sin.
It is surely no accident that in

1194
01:06:22,320 --> 01:06:27,280
his function as the first man,
Metatron is also named Zadiq or

1195
01:06:27,280 --> 01:06:30,040
the righteous one, which gets
back into the Melchizedek thing

1196
01:06:30,080 --> 01:06:33,400
that were you know that this
primordial heavenly Melchizedek,

1197
01:06:33,720 --> 01:06:35,200
right?
And so yeah.

1198
01:06:35,200 --> 01:06:37,680
And 2nd Enoch, you start seeing
stuff like pre existence.

1199
01:06:37,680 --> 01:06:38,920
It's all throughout all
actually.

1200
01:06:38,920 --> 01:06:43,800
But where Enoch is seeing that
he was named before the moon and

1201
01:06:43,800 --> 01:06:47,640
the sun were created, right?
You know, before the planet was,

1202
01:06:47,960 --> 01:06:50,320
That's all scarfly Mormon,
right?

1203
01:06:51,360 --> 01:06:54,240
I'm, I'm trying to wrap my mind
around all the implications of

1204
01:06:54,240 --> 01:06:54,960
this.
Right?

1205
01:06:55,040 --> 01:06:56,640
Yeah, we should hear.
You talk for a second.

1206
01:06:57,760 --> 01:06:59,560
Because.
Here, here's some of the

1207
01:06:59,560 --> 01:07:01,280
questions that this brings up
right?

1208
01:07:01,400 --> 01:07:03,680
And it's something I'm not
completely comfortable with.

1209
01:07:03,680 --> 01:07:06,000
So I'll, I'll await your
explanation on this.

1210
01:07:06,560 --> 01:07:11,280
But they seem to be turning
Enoch into kind of a, a savior,

1211
01:07:11,600 --> 01:07:15,280
right?
But that seems to fly in the

1212
01:07:15,280 --> 01:07:19,960
face of Jesus being the savior,
does it not?

1213
01:07:20,240 --> 01:07:21,360
Oh.
It sure does.

1214
01:07:21,360 --> 01:07:25,040
And and and.
So at that point you have to say

1215
01:07:25,400 --> 01:07:27,040
and.
And this is where these kind of

1216
01:07:27,040 --> 01:07:29,600
sources get iffy, right?
Because big time to me.

1217
01:07:29,600 --> 01:07:31,360
Because you got.
You got to endorsing that.

1218
01:07:31,360 --> 01:07:32,960
Wholesale, right?
No, I didn't.

1219
01:07:32,960 --> 01:07:34,720
I didn't think you were, but
how?

1220
01:07:34,720 --> 01:07:36,880
How do you wrap your mind around
this then?

1221
01:07:36,920 --> 01:07:37,920
Right?
What?

1222
01:07:38,080 --> 01:07:41,200
At what point do you say this is
hyper?

1223
01:07:41,240 --> 01:07:43,240
You know ancient hyperbole,
right?

1224
01:07:43,800 --> 01:07:49,960
Or is this inspired?
Truth.

1225
01:07:49,960 --> 01:07:54,480
That's coming to us.
How do you tear that apart so I.

1226
01:07:54,800 --> 01:07:58,800
I'm a big fan of taking a step
back and looking at types and

1227
01:07:58,800 --> 01:08:03,040
shadows.
Psychology calls archetypes, you

1228
01:08:03,040 --> 01:08:05,800
know, figures like that and
saying where, what are the, what

1229
01:08:05,800 --> 01:08:08,280
is the, what's the moral?
What's the archetype and the

1230
01:08:08,280 --> 01:08:11,640
symbolism saying and how can I
apply that generally?

1231
01:08:11,640 --> 01:08:13,080
Maybe I can see a better
picture.

1232
01:08:13,160 --> 01:08:17,279
How do I apply the archetype in
a construct of Mormonism?

1233
01:08:18,040 --> 01:08:19,200
In my own.
Vernacular.

1234
01:08:19,200 --> 01:08:23,479
How can I reconstruct that using
well, I know is strongly rooted

1235
01:08:23,680 --> 01:08:27,600
for through Joseph Smith, but it
requires looking at a step back

1236
01:08:27,600 --> 01:08:29,840
through archetypes.
I think the historical context

1237
01:08:30,439 --> 01:08:33,120
really helps about talking about
like this late second Temple

1238
01:08:33,120 --> 01:08:36,840
Judaism and the royal occupation
and you're seeing a competition

1239
01:08:36,840 --> 01:08:39,840
between sects and their
priesthoods.

1240
01:08:40,160 --> 01:08:43,399
And you see I think that really
helps you interpret what's

1241
01:08:43,399 --> 01:08:46,720
really being said here.
But also this idea it you're,

1242
01:08:47,080 --> 01:08:51,560
you're right on the head that we
need to understand the Jews did

1243
01:08:51,560 --> 01:08:54,840
not stop being Jews when Christ
came on the earth, right?

1244
01:08:54,920 --> 01:08:57,840
They were still looking for a
Messiah and they did not think

1245
01:08:57,840 --> 01:09:03,240
Christ fit the bill, right?
And so to Rabbi Ishmael, you

1246
01:09:03,240 --> 01:09:07,920
know, he's going to be growing
up reading 1st and 2nd Enoch and

1247
01:09:07,920 --> 01:09:12,680
he's even extrapolating on that
more so, which is interesting.

1248
01:09:12,680 --> 01:09:18,279
But they're in their mind,
they're still looking for that

1249
01:09:18,640 --> 01:09:23,680
other kind of Messiah figure and
whether maybe Enoch just becomes

1250
01:09:23,680 --> 01:09:28,160
the heavenly counterpart to some
future, you know, zealot type

1251
01:09:28,160 --> 01:09:30,720
hero that's going to liberate
them from the Romans or what or

1252
01:09:30,720 --> 01:09:32,279
whatever.
You know, I don't know how that

1253
01:09:32,279 --> 01:09:39,760
all works out, but it helps to
see what these, what is the text

1254
01:09:40,359 --> 01:09:43,800
talking about?
What is it criticizing?

1255
01:09:44,200 --> 01:09:46,760
Right.
And it's in some instances, I

1256
01:09:46,760 --> 01:09:49,520
think that some of this is
criticizing Christ.

1257
01:09:50,000 --> 01:09:52,560
And I think because they did not
agree with Christianity.

1258
01:09:52,560 --> 01:09:57,400
And so you have, I will tell
anyone who is reading this

1259
01:09:57,400 --> 01:10:01,400
Enochian literature that you got
to be careful with it because I

1260
01:10:01,400 --> 01:10:04,080
think some of it is Antichrist.
Yeah, to an extent.

1261
01:10:04,960 --> 01:10:06,240
But.
I think some of it can also be

1262
01:10:06,240 --> 01:10:07,600
helpful.
Well, and.

1263
01:10:07,680 --> 01:10:10,720
And I think that that kind of
hits, hits the nail on the head,

1264
01:10:10,720 --> 01:10:12,040
right?
And this is where I've always

1265
01:10:12,040 --> 01:10:17,680
told people you're going to want
to be real grounded in in in

1266
01:10:17,680 --> 01:10:20,040
those basic things because
you're going to need that tether

1267
01:10:20,040 --> 01:10:22,480
when you start diving into this,
right?

1268
01:10:22,480 --> 01:10:26,040
Because you're going to always
need to to do various check with

1269
01:10:26,040 --> 01:10:29,720
me sort of thing.
Like, OK, Jesus is still in

1270
01:10:29,720 --> 01:10:32,640
Christ.
Joseph's work probably takes

1271
01:10:32,640 --> 01:10:34,680
precedent over anything this
old.

1272
01:10:35,400 --> 01:10:39,720
But nonetheless, there are some
things that I think can be, like

1273
01:10:39,720 --> 01:10:47,120
you were saying, can be drawn
out to lend credence and support

1274
01:10:47,640 --> 01:10:50,960
to Mormonism's claims.
Oh yeah, big time.

1275
01:10:51,200 --> 01:10:55,760
And even Christianity's claims
too, like the the stuff was

1276
01:10:55,760 --> 01:10:58,720
popular to to them.
And so you could see, like Jude

1277
01:10:58,720 --> 01:11:01,840
or others who quote the Book of
Enoch, they're kind of reverse

1278
01:11:01,840 --> 01:11:05,240
engineering some of these things
and applying it to Christ.

1279
01:11:06,520 --> 01:11:10,280
Absolutely, absolutely.
The tone does change between,

1280
01:11:10,800 --> 01:11:14,640
you know, 1st and and 3rd Enoch,
obviously, right?

1281
01:11:15,560 --> 01:11:18,600
I, I tend to be, and, and
granted, I probably haven't done

1282
01:11:18,600 --> 01:11:20,280
nearly the research that you
have.

1283
01:11:20,600 --> 01:11:23,120
I tend to be way more
comfortable with first Enoch

1284
01:11:23,120 --> 01:11:28,920
than I do with the other books,
right, Because, and, and it, I

1285
01:11:28,920 --> 01:11:31,840
want to say this, it could be
just the, the way it reads,

1286
01:11:31,840 --> 01:11:33,440
right?
Enoch seems to be more

1287
01:11:33,440 --> 01:11:37,200
approachable in those and it
reminds me more of the Enoch

1288
01:11:37,200 --> 01:11:41,480
that Joseph Smith lays out.
Yeah, absolutely.

1289
01:11:41,720 --> 01:11:46,560
So we talked about the some fun
things that 30 Enoch has to

1290
01:11:46,720 --> 01:11:48,920
summarize.
You have the two Messiahs,

1291
01:11:48,920 --> 01:11:53,440
which, you know, if you, for
those who don't know, there's an

1292
01:11:53,440 --> 01:11:58,080
idea in rabbinic Judaism that
there's supposed to be a Messiah

1293
01:11:58,440 --> 01:12:01,160
figure raised up out of the
tribe of Judah and Joseph.

1294
01:12:01,560 --> 01:12:04,960
And that's kind of a
interestingly cool parallel for

1295
01:12:04,960 --> 01:12:08,360
Joseph Smith, being of the
descent out of the tribes of

1296
01:12:08,360 --> 01:12:10,880
Joseph, you know, Ephraim.
Especially when you start

1297
01:12:10,880 --> 01:12:14,800
looking at what the Messiah Ben
Joseph's supposed to do, right?

1298
01:12:15,360 --> 01:12:21,000
Like very much a restore kind of
figure Enoch.

1299
01:12:21,280 --> 01:12:24,960
In by third, by third Enoch he,
you know, we see as we covered,

1300
01:12:24,960 --> 01:12:28,040
you know, he's taken on the
godly role because in

1301
01:12:28,040 --> 01:12:32,400
Hellenistic Judaism, God's
become more drawn back.

1302
01:12:32,800 --> 01:12:36,920
And so you have to have a
mediator figure that was caused

1303
01:12:36,920 --> 01:12:46,920
by the Greek philosophy, but you
also have not just a knee jerk

1304
01:12:47,320 --> 01:12:51,800
reaction, not knee jerk, but a
calculated reactionary dogma

1305
01:12:51,880 --> 01:12:55,160
being asserted against
Christianity intentionally,

1306
01:12:55,360 --> 01:12:59,200
right?
But also they're dealing with by

1307
01:12:59,200 --> 01:13:01,600
the time that Rabbi Ishmael is
around, the temple's gone,

1308
01:13:01,840 --> 01:13:04,680
right?
The temple's destroyed and the

1309
01:13:04,680 --> 01:13:07,520
priesthood's gone.
And so there's some of that

1310
01:13:07,520 --> 01:13:11,240
that's going there.
The third Enoch comes up as a

1311
01:13:11,240 --> 01:13:14,280
way, it's new revelation for the
Jews.

1312
01:13:14,280 --> 01:13:17,280
Not it's not the gospel, it's
not what I'm saying, but it's

1313
01:13:17,560 --> 01:13:21,520
revelation in quotes for them to
deal with the crappy world that

1314
01:13:21,520 --> 01:13:22,720
they're in right now.
And I.

1315
01:13:22,720 --> 01:13:27,800
Was just going to say you cannot
undersell the blow that the

1316
01:13:27,800 --> 01:13:33,800
psyche of Judaism took by the
priesthood being decimated and

1317
01:13:33,800 --> 01:13:35,680
the temple being gone.
Yeah, they had to.

1318
01:13:35,680 --> 01:13:37,320
Completely.
Rework that what their religion

1319
01:13:37,320 --> 01:13:39,640
meant to them, right?
And this is one of those books.

1320
01:13:39,640 --> 01:13:42,240
That did that, absolutely.
And so when, when you're

1321
01:13:42,480 --> 01:13:46,720
approaching, especially 2nd and
3rd in it, you have to look at

1322
01:13:46,720 --> 01:13:49,920
that, you have to understand
that context because they are

1323
01:13:49,920 --> 01:13:53,560
grasping for something, anything
to hold on to.

1324
01:13:54,080 --> 01:13:58,600
Judaism has to redefine itself
now because.

1325
01:13:59,720 --> 01:14:00,640
Your stuff is.
Gone.

1326
01:14:00,640 --> 01:14:04,120
Your homeland is gone, the
temple is gone.

1327
01:14:04,560 --> 01:14:12,040
Your ruling factions are gone.
How do you then bounce back

1328
01:14:12,760 --> 01:14:15,680
right.
And and and and a lot of these

1329
01:14:15,760 --> 01:14:21,760
these these books, what what I
find is trying to establish a

1330
01:14:21,760 --> 01:14:24,400
new identity in the dysphoria.
That's exactly that's.

1331
01:14:24,400 --> 01:14:26,240
Exactly what it is and and
that's.

1332
01:14:26,720 --> 01:14:28,440
That's going to come with some
pain.

1333
01:14:29,360 --> 01:14:33,040
Yeah, so you.
See this imagery in second and

1334
01:14:33,040 --> 01:14:36,160
third Enoch for sure, or Enoch's
going through the seven heavens.

1335
01:14:36,240 --> 01:14:37,560
Sometimes there's three.
I don't know.

1336
01:14:37,800 --> 01:14:39,160
I think maybe first Enoch, it's
three.

1337
01:14:39,160 --> 01:14:40,760
I don't know if it's seven in
that one as well.

1338
01:14:42,440 --> 01:14:46,120
Stuff I was reading was
interesting because I've been

1339
01:14:46,120 --> 01:14:51,160
reading a lot about temple stuff
in ancient Judaism recently and

1340
01:14:51,160 --> 01:14:55,920
the Temple was divided into
three parts and in this ascent

1341
01:14:56,280 --> 01:14:59,200
literature and it's not always
Enoch in some of the stuff you

1342
01:14:59,200 --> 01:15:01,600
see these guys like Paul I've I
was in the third heavens.

1343
01:15:01,600 --> 01:15:06,080
Well what is that really saying
talking about the temple Yep the

1344
01:15:06,080 --> 01:15:08,240
three the three-part space
that's in the temple.

1345
01:15:09,200 --> 01:15:13,200
Some scholars have said that in
the latest period before the

1346
01:15:13,200 --> 01:15:15,960
Temple was destroyed, maybe it
was actually separated into

1347
01:15:15,960 --> 01:15:20,600
seven parts.
And what we're seeing here with

1348
01:15:20,600 --> 01:15:24,160
in 3rd Enoch and maybe maybe
even in second as well if it's

1349
01:15:24,160 --> 01:15:28,640
undergone some later changes, is
because there's no earthly

1350
01:15:28,640 --> 01:15:31,120
temple.
They're having to describe

1351
01:15:33,200 --> 01:15:37,920
temple adjacent ideas in your
mind by you're envisioning

1352
01:15:37,960 --> 01:15:39,480
someone else passing through the
temple.

1353
01:15:39,800 --> 01:15:42,840
Well, OK, Rabbi Ishmael is going
through the temple through the

1354
01:15:42,840 --> 01:15:46,080
7th because Enoch went through.
So it's kind.

1355
01:15:46,080 --> 01:15:47,840
Of a temple parable.
It's a temple.

1356
01:15:47,840 --> 01:15:49,560
Parable because the temple's
gone.

1357
01:15:49,800 --> 01:15:51,800
Yep.
And it's a way to kind of

1358
01:15:51,800 --> 01:15:54,720
preserve esoterically some of
the stuff that was maybe going

1359
01:15:54,720 --> 01:15:58,320
on, but there's also no one to
officiate, right?

1360
01:15:58,400 --> 01:16:01,240
And so it's all just a
construct.

1361
01:16:02,040 --> 01:16:05,560
The scripture is there to
provide a mental construct to

1362
01:16:05,560 --> 01:16:08,120
teach something right.
Interesting.

1363
01:16:08,120 --> 01:16:12,600
Oh, super fascinating, Yeah.
Yeah, because you don't just get

1364
01:16:12,760 --> 01:16:16,800
theology, you get the
sociopolitical climate of what

1365
01:16:16,800 --> 01:16:25,000
this is coming to and the the
corresponding holy writ that

1366
01:16:25,000 --> 01:16:31,240
will now redefine Judaism.
The cool thing about the

1367
01:16:31,240 --> 01:16:35,000
Enochian text with Rabbi
Ishmael, there's, I don't know

1368
01:16:35,000 --> 01:16:38,640
if it's in 30 Enoch or if it's a
separate book that Rabbi Ishmael

1369
01:16:38,640 --> 01:16:40,640
wrote.
It's called the Shirakama.

1370
01:16:42,200 --> 01:16:47,800
But Rabbi Ishmael describes an
anthropomorphic, corporeal God.

1371
01:16:50,320 --> 01:16:56,040
And in fact, there's a guy, a
famous, famous, famous rabbi,

1372
01:16:56,040 --> 01:17:02,920
later Maimonides, which is like,
if you read, if you see the

1373
01:17:02,920 --> 01:17:07,320
name, you might be tempted to
pronounce it Maimonides or

1374
01:17:07,320 --> 01:17:11,800
Maimonides.
But it's my Maimonides.

1375
01:17:13,320 --> 01:17:17,600
He hated the this book, you
know, by Rabbi Ishmaeli.

1376
01:17:17,600 --> 01:17:19,120
So that's absolute heresy to
sin.

1377
01:17:19,240 --> 01:17:22,400
God had a corporeal
anthropomorphic body.

1378
01:17:22,840 --> 01:17:27,000
I think there's plenty of.
Evidence and and even proto kind

1379
01:17:27,000 --> 01:17:30,120
of proto Hebrew ISM, if you
will, that that that wasn't so

1380
01:17:30,120 --> 01:17:31,360
far fetched.
No, but yeah.

1381
01:17:31,440 --> 01:17:32,920
Anyways, but that was kind of
late.

1382
01:17:33,000 --> 01:17:35,360
You know, this is kind of late
for, I mean, he's like 5th or

1383
01:17:35,360 --> 01:17:38,920
6th century.
And that's when this third book

1384
01:17:38,920 --> 01:17:40,920
of Enoch is undergoing its
latest edits.

1385
01:17:40,960 --> 01:17:45,000
But Ishmael is saying God has a
corporeal body.

1386
01:17:46,760 --> 01:17:50,240
Let's see.
He, Enoch, is described

1387
01:17:50,240 --> 01:17:54,120
nonetheless as a lesser Jehovah.
He's on a throne in the 7th

1388
01:17:54,120 --> 01:17:59,000
heaven.
He's wearing a robe in a crown

1389
01:17:59,000 --> 01:18:03,680
fashioned by God.
It even.

1390
01:18:03,680 --> 01:18:08,200
Cites Deuteronomy Enoch cites
Deuteronomy chapter 22 or

1391
01:18:08,200 --> 01:18:13,760
whatever.
There's AI should have picked up

1392
01:18:13,760 --> 01:18:17,880
the actual verse, but there's a
it's when during the Exodus

1393
01:18:17,880 --> 01:18:23,600
where God is just getting fed up
with with Israel because there

1394
01:18:23,600 --> 01:18:26,480
is yeah, there is not listening.
And.

1395
01:18:26,640 --> 01:18:28,960
He takes a step back and he
says.

1396
01:18:29,680 --> 01:18:31,880
You know.
I'm gonna here's this Angel,

1397
01:18:31,880 --> 01:18:35,000
he's gonna lead you, and you
better do what he says, because

1398
01:18:35,000 --> 01:18:37,680
he will not pardon you because
my name is in him.

1399
01:18:38,760 --> 01:18:40,480
You know.
So the divine name, the name of

1400
01:18:40,480 --> 01:18:42,200
Jehovah is being placed in this
Angel.

1401
01:18:42,520 --> 01:18:47,000
My take on that, That's Christ.
Christ is now leading the exodus

1402
01:18:47,040 --> 01:18:50,520
because they've also did not.
They've rejected the priesthood

1403
01:18:50,600 --> 01:18:52,720
that brought them into the
presence of the Father.

1404
01:18:53,400 --> 01:18:57,240
And so you have.
Rabbi.

1405
01:18:57,240 --> 01:19:01,560
Ishmael ascribing that verse to
Enoch, You know he's the he's

1406
01:19:01,560 --> 01:19:04,000
the Angel of the Lord's
presence, right?

1407
01:19:04,240 --> 01:19:06,840
He's the Angel that the Lord's
name, is it, right?

1408
01:19:07,520 --> 01:19:11,000
You know, with, with the imagery
that's given there of Enoch

1409
01:19:11,040 --> 01:19:17,360
being crowned with, you know, a
crown in a robe and sitting on

1410
01:19:17,360 --> 01:19:20,120
the throne, right?
The, the, the Messiah kind of

1411
01:19:20,120 --> 01:19:25,720
imagery or the, the godly kind
of imagery, I can kind of see

1412
01:19:25,720 --> 01:19:29,840
where that comes from, right?
Because let's, let's face it, at

1413
01:19:29,840 --> 01:19:33,640
this, at this time period, we've
already lost some stuff, right?

1414
01:19:33,640 --> 01:19:35,240
There's no doubt about that,
right?

1415
01:19:35,520 --> 01:19:37,240
Humanity has lost some of this
stuff.

1416
01:19:37,640 --> 01:19:41,480
So if you're a dude who's trying
to put the pieces back together

1417
01:19:41,480 --> 01:19:44,760
and someone says, well, Enoch in
the city was taking up, your

1418
01:19:44,760 --> 01:19:48,440
first thought is, oh, he's he's
become a God in the full sense

1419
01:19:48,440 --> 01:19:50,880
of the word.
And it's not till Joseph Smith

1420
01:19:50,880 --> 01:19:53,200
comes around and he's like, no,
no, no, there's degrees to this

1421
01:19:53,200 --> 01:19:54,920
thing, right?
There's translation.

1422
01:19:55,760 --> 01:19:58,640
I think this is the genius of
Joseph Smith too, right?

1423
01:19:59,040 --> 01:20:02,000
And and what was revealed to
Joseph is is just those

1424
01:20:02,000 --> 01:20:05,640
designations so you don't get
confused with this stuff.

1425
01:20:05,840 --> 01:20:08,440
Because let's face it, if this
all is all you had to work with,

1426
01:20:10,160 --> 01:20:12,280
you'd be hard pressed to to try
to.

1427
01:20:14,240 --> 01:20:16,240
If I was.
In I was thinking about the

1428
01:20:16,240 --> 01:20:17,760
second car ride down here
tonight.

1429
01:20:18,640 --> 01:20:21,240
If I was in a place where I was
trying to reconstruct

1430
01:20:21,240 --> 01:20:27,000
Christianity, not, you know, and
we take out the fact that I, you

1431
01:20:27,000 --> 01:20:29,040
know, let's say the restoration
didn't happen and I was

1432
01:20:29,960 --> 01:20:34,000
inspired, maybe not inspired,
whatever, but I was using my own

1433
01:20:34,000 --> 01:20:36,360
mental faculties to kind of, but
I knew something was wrong and I

1434
01:20:36,360 --> 01:20:38,640
was trying to restore ancient
Judaism of Christianity.

1435
01:20:39,640 --> 01:20:41,720
I totally.
Understand how after reading

1436
01:20:41,720 --> 01:20:45,400
some of this Second Temple
Judaism stuff, how the Jehovah's

1437
01:20:45,400 --> 01:20:48,600
Witnesses got Jesus Christ and
Michael the Archangel together.

1438
01:20:48,840 --> 01:20:51,600
That's no close to the Adam God
doctrine, but I can see that

1439
01:20:51,800 --> 01:20:53,920
because Michael gets the
intercessor position.

1440
01:20:54,320 --> 01:20:56,120
Christ is the intercessor
position.

1441
01:20:56,480 --> 01:20:59,040
I could, I would have totally
endorsed that position if I was

1442
01:20:59,040 --> 01:21:02,200
just reconstructing something
and and now.

1443
01:21:02,720 --> 01:21:05,400
Yeah, and that's that's where I
say paying attention to what

1444
01:21:05,400 --> 01:21:10,600
Joseph taught and revealed about
the orders of Heaven translation

1445
01:21:10,600 --> 01:21:12,960
versus exaltation becomes.
Super.

1446
01:21:12,960 --> 01:21:14,560
Important.
They do, yeah.

1447
01:21:14,560 --> 01:21:18,040
And yeah.
And so Joseph Smith is my lit in

1448
01:21:18,040 --> 01:21:19,800
this test.
To me, Joseph Smith, I'm with

1449
01:21:19,840 --> 01:21:23,160
you, is the he is the Moses of
our generation.

1450
01:21:24,440 --> 01:21:28,280
And that's the measuring stick.
I love what Brigham Young said

1451
01:21:29,840 --> 01:21:35,360
that he was paraphrasing off of
a verse in the First Epistle of

1452
01:21:35,360 --> 01:21:38,080
John.
John was dealing with these

1453
01:21:38,080 --> 01:21:41,960
Gnostics, right?
And he makes a statement which

1454
01:21:41,960 --> 01:21:44,120
is kind of funny if we don't
understand the historical

1455
01:21:44,120 --> 01:21:47,080
context.
He says any person who does not

1456
01:21:47,840 --> 01:21:50,680
or any spirit who does not
confess that Jesus Christ came

1457
01:21:50,680 --> 01:21:54,280
in the flesh is Antichrist.
Well, what the heck does that

1458
01:21:54,280 --> 01:21:56,320
mean?
Does that mean that I can go

1459
01:21:56,320 --> 01:21:58,600
down the the street to the
evangelical church and they're

1460
01:21:58,600 --> 01:22:00,360
going to say Jesus Christ came
in the flesh?

1461
01:22:00,360 --> 01:22:03,760
And does that mean whatever they
say because they're saying,

1462
01:22:03,880 --> 01:22:07,360
yeah, praise Jesus is that, you
know, they're they're totally

1463
01:22:07,360 --> 01:22:10,440
good.
No, but the Gnostics believed

1464
01:22:10,440 --> 01:22:13,400
that Christ because they
believed in this, this super

1465
01:22:13,400 --> 01:22:17,200
hellenized idea that God can't
be corporeal, that Christ was

1466
01:22:17,200 --> 01:22:20,440
just a spirit the whole time and
resurrection doesn't make sense

1467
01:22:20,440 --> 01:22:25,160
because matter is bad.
And so John is leveling against

1468
01:22:25,160 --> 01:22:29,040
them a heresy.
You know, whoever does not say

1469
01:22:29,040 --> 01:22:31,440
that Jesus Christ was born
literally tangibly in the flesh

1470
01:22:31,440 --> 01:22:35,840
and resurrected his Antichrist
and said Brigham Young uses

1471
01:22:35,840 --> 01:22:39,600
that, but he updates the litmus
test because that first, you

1472
01:22:39,600 --> 01:22:42,200
know, John is not relevant to us
today because we're not dealing

1473
01:22:42,200 --> 01:22:43,520
with that kind of philosophy,
right?

1474
01:22:43,760 --> 01:22:46,920
But he says any spirit who does
not confess that Joseph Smith

1475
01:22:46,920 --> 01:22:49,160
lived and died a prophet of God
is Antichrist.

1476
01:22:50,760 --> 01:22:54,400
And I love.
Him absolutely, absolutely that.

1477
01:22:54,440 --> 01:22:55,320
I love that.
Yep.

1478
01:22:55,800 --> 01:22:57,800
And I would.
Go on to add to that my

1479
01:22:57,800 --> 01:23:02,080
testimony is any spirit that
does not confess that Joseph

1480
01:23:02,080 --> 01:23:05,760
Smith lived and died a prophet
of God and that he restored the

1481
01:23:05,760 --> 01:23:08,240
temple endowment.
And.

1482
01:23:08,640 --> 01:23:11,240
Laws of God like consecration
and celestial plural marriage

1483
01:23:11,240 --> 01:23:12,840
that get you into the presence
of God.

1484
01:23:13,800 --> 01:23:16,840
If you don't believe in those
things, then it's Antichrist.

1485
01:23:18,360 --> 01:23:20,080
I'm looking at you, Michelle
Brady Stone.

1486
01:23:21,600 --> 01:23:23,880
Yeah, that's what Brigham Young
called the measures of Joseph.

1487
01:23:23,960 --> 01:23:27,040
Yeah, I don't think.
That's unreasonable, right?

1488
01:23:28,840 --> 01:23:34,480
I think not only do I think it's
not unreasonable because of some

1489
01:23:34,480 --> 01:23:38,200
things that I believe about
Joseph Smith, it's there's,

1490
01:23:38,240 --> 01:23:39,560
there's some far reaching
things.

1491
01:23:39,560 --> 01:23:41,320
I I know where Brigham's going
with this.

1492
01:23:42,920 --> 01:23:44,160
Any further comments?
Formula.

1493
01:23:44,400 --> 01:23:46,200
Nope, I'm good.
So Metatron.

1494
01:23:46,400 --> 01:23:51,080
I'll try to breeze through this.
Possible etymology or the

1495
01:23:51,080 --> 01:23:54,040
meaning or origin of the name?
Some people have postulated it

1496
01:23:54,040 --> 01:23:56,560
can mean behind the throne in
Greek.

1497
01:23:58,760 --> 01:24:02,440
One thing I found fascinating is
the gematria values of the name

1498
01:24:02,440 --> 01:24:05,400
for Metatron and Shaddai are
equivalent.

1499
01:24:05,880 --> 01:24:11,440
So the gematria value in
esoteric Judaism is all the

1500
01:24:11,440 --> 01:24:16,960
letters in Hebrew have a
numerical value, and so you can

1501
01:24:16,960 --> 01:24:22,080
make fun little like footnotes
to other things or literary

1502
01:24:22,080 --> 01:24:25,080
connections between ideas that
might not be so.

1503
01:24:26,000 --> 01:24:31,600
Apparent exactly.
And like serpent and Messiah

1504
01:24:31,600 --> 01:24:34,280
have the same numerical value
and you see that imagery with

1505
01:24:34,280 --> 01:24:37,480
the brazen serpent and on the
pole and Moses being the the

1506
01:24:37,480 --> 01:24:41,360
children of Israel that they who
look on it and and Nephi use

1507
01:24:41,360 --> 01:24:44,960
that in the Book of Mormon.
Well, should I, which is the God

1508
01:24:44,960 --> 01:24:47,240
of Abraham, El Shaddai, you
know, God Almighty.

1509
01:24:47,240 --> 01:24:49,560
That's when you read in the King
James Version that whenever it

1510
01:24:49,560 --> 01:24:51,080
says God Almighty, that's
Shaddai.

1511
01:24:51,360 --> 01:24:55,160
OK, Metatron and Shaddai are
equivalent.

1512
01:24:56,240 --> 01:25:01,480
So Ishmael is definitely
equating Metatron with God,

1513
01:25:01,880 --> 01:25:03,640
right?
Which he's not.

1514
01:25:03,960 --> 01:25:06,120
But he's not saying he is God,
he's equating him.

1515
01:25:06,120 --> 01:25:09,320
It's that's gets back into the
doctrine of exaltation, right?

1516
01:25:09,320 --> 01:25:14,840
This esoteric remnant of truth.
There's a lot of convoluted crap

1517
01:25:14,840 --> 01:25:17,800
in there, but that's the
redeeming thing.

1518
01:25:17,920 --> 01:25:19,880
Right.
Throughout the whole book is

1519
01:25:19,880 --> 01:25:23,600
that just is there?
If you're looking for it, let's

1520
01:25:23,600 --> 01:25:28,320
skip some of that.
Let's see in 3rd.

1521
01:25:28,320 --> 01:25:35,880
Enoch Oh also third Enoch calls.
Even though Enoch is like

1522
01:25:35,920 --> 01:25:41,280
literally God and above the
angels, it's interesting that

1523
01:25:41,280 --> 01:25:46,600
all the angels call him the
youth or the lad, which is what

1524
01:25:47,360 --> 01:25:50,720
Enoch says to God.
In our full of great price.

1525
01:25:50,760 --> 01:25:53,280
I am but Aladdin old people make
me interesting.

1526
01:25:53,280 --> 01:25:54,800
It's the only time that that
appears.

1527
01:25:55,400 --> 01:25:59,720
And Rabbi Ishmael asks him, why
did they call you the lad?

1528
01:26:00,040 --> 01:26:02,840
And he says, well, because, you
know, I came from the earth and

1529
01:26:02,840 --> 01:26:05,360
I was younger than all of them.
You know, I'm the I'm the new

1530
01:26:05,360 --> 01:26:08,040
guy, but he's also, you know,
above them all.

1531
01:26:08,960 --> 01:26:15,920
Anyway, Third Enoch chapter 48
says I made honor, majesty and

1532
01:26:15,920 --> 01:26:19,480
glory his garment.
So this is God talking to Rabbi

1533
01:26:19,480 --> 01:26:22,400
Ishmael.
I believe I made honor, majesty,

1534
01:26:22,400 --> 01:26:25,600
and glory his garment, beauty,
pride and strength, His outer

1535
01:26:25,600 --> 01:26:29,280
robe and a kingly crown.
I bestowed upon him some of My

1536
01:26:29,280 --> 01:26:32,600
majesty, some of My
magnificence, some of the

1537
01:26:32,600 --> 01:26:35,520
splendor of my glory, which is
on the throne of glory.

1538
01:26:35,600 --> 01:26:38,960
And I called him by my name the
lesser Jehovah, the Prince of

1539
01:26:38,960 --> 01:26:41,000
the Divine Presence, knower of
secrets.

1540
01:26:41,440 --> 01:26:44,960
Every secret that I have
revealed to Him in love, every

1541
01:26:44,960 --> 01:26:51,200
mystery I have made not known
unto him in uprightness, so call

1542
01:26:52,760 --> 01:26:54,120
so.
Let's hit.

1543
01:26:54,120 --> 01:26:56,480
That, yeah, I want to make.
Sure, I'm understanding.

1544
01:26:56,800 --> 01:27:01,840
So this is the God, so to speak,
talking about Enoch.

1545
01:27:02,840 --> 01:27:06,920
Now when he starts talking about
a lesser glory, a lesser

1546
01:27:07,280 --> 01:27:12,240
whatever, that to me smacks of
translation over exaltation.

1547
01:27:12,240 --> 01:27:16,120
OK, Does that seem reasonable?
Yeah.

1548
01:27:17,960 --> 01:27:20,200
In our turn, well.
I see what you're.

1549
01:27:20,200 --> 01:27:23,720
Putting down but at the same
time reading through this like

1550
01:27:23,720 --> 01:27:28,320
he's definitely this is talking
more about the process of

1551
01:27:28,320 --> 01:27:31,280
exaltation into godhood and
obtaining the throne of the

1552
01:27:31,280 --> 01:27:34,000
Godhead to me than just being
brought back into the presence

1553
01:27:34,000 --> 01:27:34,920
of God.
OK.

1554
01:27:35,160 --> 01:27:37,880
All right.
And but yeah, but I'm definitely

1555
01:27:37,880 --> 01:27:42,400
understanding that we definitely
should not be equating Enoch

1556
01:27:42,400 --> 01:27:45,880
with God ourselves.
But here's the part that blew my

1557
01:27:45,880 --> 01:27:49,240
mind, that came to my mind when
I was reading this.

1558
01:27:50,160 --> 01:27:52,800
Enoch, in this imagery
throughout, is repeatedly

1559
01:27:52,800 --> 01:27:57,880
clothed in new garments with
glory, crowned, anointed

1560
01:27:57,880 --> 01:28:02,840
sometimes, and the name of God
is being put upon him.

1561
01:28:03,680 --> 01:28:08,960
And it occurred to me, and
there's a striking connection

1562
01:28:08,960 --> 01:28:11,200
that maybe we haven't realized
with Mormonism in the garments,

1563
01:28:11,600 --> 01:28:14,720
with that in the name of God
being put upon you, the

1564
01:28:14,720 --> 01:28:16,360
tetragrammaton.
Do you know what that means?

1565
01:28:17,280 --> 01:28:19,120
So that's the, that's what the
Jews call the name of God.

1566
01:28:19,120 --> 01:28:21,680
It's Yad.
Hey Vaad.

1567
01:28:21,680 --> 01:28:24,880
Hey, 4 letters.
It's four.

1568
01:28:24,880 --> 01:28:26,960
It's four letter name, right?
4.

1569
01:28:26,960 --> 01:28:33,040
Characters 4 marks 4 marks on
the garment and guess what?

1570
01:28:33,360 --> 01:28:35,880
In the tetragrammaton, 2 of the
letters are the same.

1571
01:28:36,000 --> 01:28:37,720
On the garment, 2 of the marks
are the same.

1572
01:28:41,120 --> 01:28:43,560
I I'm sure it's a coincidence.
That blew my mind.

1573
01:28:43,600 --> 01:28:45,520
Yeah, thinking about that dude,
that's nuts.

1574
01:28:45,880 --> 01:28:48,440
That's nuts now and brought
into.

1575
01:28:48,440 --> 01:28:50,560
The presence of God crowned.
Yeah.

1576
01:28:50,560 --> 01:28:51,840
No, all of it.
It's consistent.

1577
01:28:52,160 --> 01:28:54,840
That's consistent.
I'm just with us, with our

1578
01:28:54,840 --> 01:28:56,120
theology.
I'm just.

1579
01:28:56,120 --> 01:29:00,200
Saying here if if.
On the surface, that seems

1580
01:29:00,200 --> 01:29:02,920
pretty.
That's that's.

1581
01:29:02,920 --> 01:29:05,320
A That's a dunk, dude.
That's a yeah, that's.

1582
01:29:05,800 --> 01:29:12,120
That's a dunk now, because I'm
always a guy who looks at both

1583
01:29:12,120 --> 01:29:13,920
sides.
The blessing and the curse of

1584
01:29:13,920 --> 01:29:20,200
this right?
I I'm like, OK, so if you take

1585
01:29:20,200 --> 01:29:24,240
that name upon you and then you
take them off, so to speak, and

1586
01:29:24,240 --> 01:29:29,280
you just stop, what's the,
what's the ramifications of

1587
01:29:29,280 --> 01:29:30,720
that?
I like that comment.

1588
01:29:31,840 --> 01:29:33,440
Right.
What's the ramifications of

1589
01:29:33,440 --> 01:29:37,480
that?
If if if you have taken on that

1590
01:29:37,480 --> 01:29:40,000
name and?
Put it away and then put it.

1591
01:29:40,000 --> 01:29:42,120
Away.
Big Yikes.

1592
01:29:42,280 --> 01:29:46,640
Oh yeah, that's AI like that.
So I actually do have that quote

1593
01:29:46,640 --> 01:29:50,720
from one of these scholars who
his name is Harold Bloom.

1594
01:29:51,480 --> 01:29:53,720
And.
This is so freaking funny to me,

1595
01:29:54,000 --> 01:29:56,960
he says about Joseph Smith.
I can only attribute to his

1596
01:29:56,960 --> 01:30:00,800
genius or Damon's, his uncanny
recovery of elements in ancient

1597
01:30:00,800 --> 01:30:04,320
Jewish theology that have ceased
to be available to either

1598
01:30:04,320 --> 01:30:08,240
Judaism or to Christianity, and
that had survived only in

1599
01:30:08,240 --> 01:30:11,560
esoteric traditions unlikely to
have been touched, to have

1600
01:30:11,560 --> 01:30:13,640
touched Smith directly.
It's not the one I was thinking

1601
01:30:13,640 --> 01:30:15,280
of, but yeah, that's that's a
good one though.

1602
01:30:15,640 --> 01:30:18,000
Yeah, he's, he's struggling with
Joseph right there.

1603
01:30:18,000 --> 01:30:19,000
Yeah, big.
Time.

1604
01:30:19,000 --> 01:30:21,120
He's struggling.
With him, he, he doesn't want to

1605
01:30:21,120 --> 01:30:25,120
admit it, but he he has to
begrudgingly is, is what it

1606
01:30:25,120 --> 01:30:27,160
feels like.
Yeah, yeah.

1607
01:30:27,160 --> 01:30:28,760
Because.
He's not going to on the other

1608
01:30:28,760 --> 01:30:31,200
side.
It's he must have had

1609
01:30:31,200 --> 01:30:33,080
manuscripts.
And he's like, I know Foley.

1610
01:30:33,080 --> 01:30:35,560
Well, he didn't.
So he's either genius or he's

1611
01:30:35,560 --> 01:30:38,240
literally talking the spirits.
Damons, as he you know, or

1612
01:30:38,240 --> 01:30:39,880
demons.
Yeah, as he's calling it.

1613
01:30:40,000 --> 01:30:43,920
Yep.
But yeah, so, so interesting.

1614
01:30:46,240 --> 01:30:48,160
Because he can't just be.
What he says he is.

1615
01:30:48,280 --> 01:30:50,520
No, I mean that that's not going
to hold weight.

1616
01:30:50,520 --> 01:30:53,520
Because, well, he's a professor
somewhere on the East Coast and

1617
01:30:53,520 --> 01:30:56,800
couldn't go say that, right?
Right, that's his way of.

1618
01:30:56,800 --> 01:30:58,760
Saying it without trying to,
yeah, I don't know.

1619
01:31:00,040 --> 01:31:01,880
But you had a.
You had an experience with a

1620
01:31:01,960 --> 01:31:03,200
college professor?
I did.

1621
01:31:03,720 --> 01:31:06,520
I did.
Yeah, I I was back in Maryland.

1622
01:31:06,520 --> 01:31:09,920
We did some some side work for
the University of Maryland as a

1623
01:31:09,920 --> 01:31:14,800
perk, you could, you know, take
a corset discounted and I wanted

1624
01:31:14,800 --> 01:31:17,200
to take Jacksonian America
because you can't really talk

1625
01:31:17,200 --> 01:31:20,360
about Jacksonian America without
talking about the Mormons.

1626
01:31:21,480 --> 01:31:25,040
And when we start covering the
burned over district in New York

1627
01:31:25,040 --> 01:31:29,480
and that that sort of time
period, this professor and and

1628
01:31:29,480 --> 01:31:32,440
look, Mormons are pretty sparse
for the most part.

1629
01:31:32,440 --> 01:31:38,240
Once you get get really and you
know, past into Pennsylvania,

1630
01:31:38,320 --> 01:31:40,120
right?
I mean, we thin out quite a bit,

1631
01:31:42,320 --> 01:31:45,400
maybe some some pockets and
metroplexes and that sort of

1632
01:31:45,400 --> 01:31:45,960
thing.
Yeah, DC.

1633
01:31:46,000 --> 01:31:48,720
'S got a temple, Yeah, Yes, yes
they do.

1634
01:31:50,680 --> 01:31:55,160
But he he opens up by saying
this, when you're Speaking of

1635
01:31:55,160 --> 01:31:58,960
Joseph Smith, you have to come
to one of two conclusions want.

1636
01:31:58,960 --> 01:32:03,320
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1637
01:32:03,320 --> 01:32:07,720
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1638
01:32:07,720 --> 01:32:09,960
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1639
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1640
01:32:14,320 --> 01:32:17,440
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1641
01:32:17,440 --> 01:32:21,200
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1642
01:32:21,200 --> 01:32:25,000
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1643
01:32:25,000 --> 01:32:28,160
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1644
01:32:28,680 --> 01:32:31,240
Click the link in this episode's
show notes.

1645
01:32:31,240 --> 01:32:34,320
Today he he.
Opens up by saying this, when

1646
01:32:34,320 --> 01:32:37,240
you're Speaking of Joseph Smith,
you have to come to one of two

1647
01:32:37,240 --> 01:32:42,240
conclusions.
He is either the most raw genius

1648
01:32:42,240 --> 01:32:47,200
that certainly America, if not
the world has ever produced, or

1649
01:32:47,200 --> 01:32:50,680
he was what he says he was.
So I'm not going to tip.

1650
01:32:51,120 --> 01:32:54,200
I'm not going to tip my hand.
You know, I'm, I'm thinking I'm

1651
01:32:54,200 --> 01:32:57,040
not going to tip my hand that
I'm a Mormon right now, right?

1652
01:32:57,560 --> 01:33:00,680
But towards the end of the of,
of the semester, I did approach

1653
01:33:00,680 --> 01:33:04,520
him and I said, OK, I'm going to
hold your feet to the fire.

1654
01:33:04,520 --> 01:33:07,720
Which one is he for you?
And I'll never forget it.

1655
01:33:07,720 --> 01:33:10,920
He just kind of leans back in
his chair and he looks at me and

1656
01:33:10,920 --> 01:33:13,960
he gets kind of a a wry smile on
his face and he says I just

1657
01:33:13,960 --> 01:33:17,800
don't ask the question.
All right, so that was a.

1658
01:33:17,800 --> 01:33:20,360
Lot of the history, especially
on the Jewish and early

1659
01:33:20,360 --> 01:33:23,120
Christian side, we're going to
get back into the theology.

1660
01:33:23,360 --> 01:33:25,880
OK.
And pearly great price, I mean,

1661
01:33:25,880 --> 01:33:30,040
actually kind of all of it.
But comparison of the theologies

1662
01:33:30,040 --> 01:33:33,240
between our pearly great price
and what we see in the first

1663
01:33:33,240 --> 01:33:35,400
book of Enoch especially.
I think most of the rest is

1664
01:33:35,400 --> 01:33:39,360
probably first Enoch, which came
to be my favorite.

1665
01:33:39,520 --> 01:33:41,720
It's a little clunky, at least
the translation I read.

1666
01:33:41,800 --> 01:33:45,120
You know, I don't know what
Ethiopian looks like.

1667
01:33:45,200 --> 01:33:49,480
Maybe that can be forgiven.
But in any case, we're going to

1668
01:33:49,480 --> 01:33:51,440
get into the fun, weird stuff
now.

1669
01:33:51,440 --> 01:33:53,840
Yeah.
Yeah, I was going to say, I, I

1670
01:33:53,840 --> 01:33:56,880
think I said it earlier.
First, Enoch is by far my

1671
01:33:56,880 --> 01:34:01,240
favorite because it's an Enoch
that I recognize from Joseph

1672
01:34:01,240 --> 01:34:04,560
Smith, right?
And it's not an Enoch that seems

1673
01:34:04,560 --> 01:34:06,680
to be deified as heavily.
I didn't.

1674
01:34:06,680 --> 01:34:10,080
Mind Second Enoch.
Too bad, but yeah, First Enoch

1675
01:34:10,080 --> 01:34:12,800
was definitely my favorite.
And you're right, it is funky,

1676
01:34:12,800 --> 01:34:17,520
but what can you expect from
oral tradition passed down until

1677
01:34:18,880 --> 01:34:22,920
200 years either side of Christ?
It's, it's a little it, it's

1678
01:34:22,920 --> 01:34:25,840
supposed to be clunky, so.
We're going to get into the

1679
01:34:25,840 --> 01:34:31,800
Giants and the Watchers,
possibly, maybe one of the most

1680
01:34:31,800 --> 01:34:39,160
taboo subjects in.
I think I don't know why we're

1681
01:34:39,160 --> 01:34:42,320
still discussing this, because
I'm fairly sure that Russell

1682
01:34:42,320 --> 01:34:46,760
Crowe and Darren Ornoski in the
movie Noah has answered this

1683
01:34:46,920 --> 01:34:49,320
question for us.
They were big rock people, big

1684
01:34:49,400 --> 01:34:51,040
rock people.
They were big rock people,

1685
01:34:51,040 --> 01:34:52,160
Michael.
That's what they were.

1686
01:34:53,280 --> 01:34:59,160
So I had questions in our class
and so I had to answer them and

1687
01:34:59,160 --> 01:35:01,920
I put I put this guy off for
like 2 months because I think he

1688
01:35:01,960 --> 01:35:04,680
might have even he might have
even asked them during like.

1689
01:35:05,520 --> 01:35:09,160
Our Adam.
Lesson you know, but any in any

1690
01:35:09,160 --> 01:35:14,800
case, the giants so.
We.

1691
01:35:14,800 --> 01:35:17,520
See the giants of the offspring
of.

1692
01:35:18,320 --> 01:35:21,120
Angels.
Apparently, allegedly, Genesis 6

1693
01:35:21,120 --> 01:35:24,800
says the sons of God came down
and married the daughters of

1694
01:35:24,800 --> 01:35:26,760
men.
And then there was the Edgar

1695
01:35:26,760 --> 01:35:28,440
glory.
I think it was I was pronounced

1696
01:35:28,480 --> 01:35:35,000
in the, OR the Gibrine and and
they're mighty men of renown and

1697
01:35:35,320 --> 01:35:40,360
heroes of old.
And so it's like, OK, well, can

1698
01:35:40,360 --> 01:35:43,440
this work with Mormonism or, or,
you know, or, you know, some of

1699
01:35:43,440 --> 01:35:46,800
the rabbis and early church
fathers started saying, oh,

1700
01:35:46,880 --> 01:35:50,800
these were the, the righteous
posterity of the of Seth who

1701
01:35:50,800 --> 01:35:57,280
married uncovenant people and
there was a apostasy.

1702
01:35:57,760 --> 01:36:04,760
And is that true?
It seems like however, viewing

1703
01:36:04,760 --> 01:36:09,320
things through a smart people
with degrees kind of lens when

1704
01:36:09,320 --> 01:36:11,640
you look at the religion of the
ancient Near East.

1705
01:36:12,520 --> 01:36:15,320
It.
Looks like the religion of that

1706
01:36:15,320 --> 01:36:18,280
time period when you look at
places like you Grit, which is

1707
01:36:18,280 --> 01:36:22,880
about 100 or so miles north of
Jerusalem, just South of Mount

1708
01:36:22,880 --> 01:36:27,840
Zafan, which was the Mount
Olympus of like the Phoenicians

1709
01:36:27,840 --> 01:36:31,160
and that, you know, right with
Baal and all that.

1710
01:36:33,000 --> 01:36:36,320
The father of the gods and the
father of humanity was called

1711
01:36:36,320 --> 01:36:41,760
El, sometimes El AB Adam or Abu
Adami, Father Adam, father of

1712
01:36:41,760 --> 01:36:46,200
mankind, you know, but he had
seventy sons who are also gods

1713
01:36:46,720 --> 01:36:50,560
and he had like 3 wives.
So he's polygamist fun.

1714
01:36:50,560 --> 01:36:52,960
That's a side note, but OK, So
yeah.

1715
01:36:54,240 --> 01:36:56,640
What?
Is this is called the Divine

1716
01:36:56,640 --> 01:36:59,320
Assembly or the congregation of
the, you know, divine

1717
01:36:59,320 --> 01:37:02,440
congregation?
This seems that like the

1718
01:37:02,440 --> 01:37:08,680
literature is clearly referring
to the idea that this is from,

1719
01:37:08,880 --> 01:37:12,040
it's referring to the
congregation, right, Right.

1720
01:37:14,520 --> 01:37:21,280
The idea, then, scholars say, is
as the Israelite religion

1721
01:37:21,400 --> 01:37:26,240
evolved into monotheism, these
gods, these seventy sons which

1722
01:37:26,240 --> 01:37:28,600
were also gods, devolved into
angels.

1723
01:37:29,760 --> 01:37:31,720
OK.
And so these angels, which were

1724
01:37:31,720 --> 01:37:36,320
once gods, you know, left.
Right the.

1725
01:37:36,600 --> 01:37:39,440
The heavens went down to Mount
Hermon, which is actually in the

1726
01:37:39,440 --> 01:37:42,480
South in the Enoch text that was
it was Mount Hermon.

1727
01:37:42,480 --> 01:37:48,200
But then they went and did what
they did and, and some said

1728
01:37:48,320 --> 01:37:49,480
however, too.
And I thought this was

1729
01:37:49,480 --> 01:37:56,600
interesting that this was a
rebuttal to the Greek world in a

1730
01:37:56,600 --> 01:38:00,240
way, because at this time the
Enoch is being written.

1731
01:38:00,960 --> 01:38:04,680
Judaism is steeped in Greek
philosophy and the nations

1732
01:38:04,680 --> 01:38:07,480
around.
And it's even been older than

1733
01:38:07,480 --> 01:38:10,200
that though too.
Babylon had their version, and

1734
01:38:10,200 --> 01:38:11,760
Egypt.
Actually, I don't know if Egypt

1735
01:38:11,760 --> 01:38:15,600
had their version of demigods,
but Babylon and Greece for sure

1736
01:38:15,600 --> 01:38:20,000
had demigods, the heroes.
Well, yeah, if you look at

1737
01:38:20,000 --> 01:38:24,120
Gilgamesh, Gilgamesh is depicted
large enough that he's holding a

1738
01:38:24,120 --> 01:38:27,600
full scale lion and it looks
like a kitten, right?

1739
01:38:28,240 --> 01:38:32,080
I mean, and so yeah, the.
Authors or the scholars are

1740
01:38:32,080 --> 01:38:37,480
saying this is a rebuttal to the
Greeks and Babylonians who are

1741
01:38:37,480 --> 01:38:40,960
saying, look at all these heroes
that are the sons of gods,

1742
01:38:41,240 --> 01:38:43,680
right?
And the Jews are saying, no,

1743
01:38:43,680 --> 01:38:46,840
these are bad, right?
Don't get involved in this

1744
01:38:47,480 --> 01:38:51,760
demigod hero story stuff.
I could see.

1745
01:38:52,080 --> 01:38:55,880
I see I could.
See that, but I think we're at a

1746
01:38:55,880 --> 01:39:00,800
time in in in Jewish.
Look, the Pharisees and

1747
01:39:00,800 --> 01:39:03,840
Sadducees have no cult problems
calling BS when they see it,

1748
01:39:03,840 --> 01:39:06,680
right?
So it seems a little less direct

1749
01:39:07,000 --> 01:39:11,320
to me for them to be doing that.
Does that make sense?

1750
01:39:11,320 --> 01:39:14,680
Sure, sure.
But I thought that opinion was

1751
01:39:14,840 --> 01:39:17,480
interesting at the very least.
I think it's just as valid as

1752
01:39:17,480 --> 01:39:19,440
any of the other ones.
Let's be honest.

1753
01:39:19,480 --> 01:39:22,520
I think it seems like in the
Jewish camp and the Christian

1754
01:39:22,520 --> 01:39:25,200
camp, the earliest
interpretations also were that

1755
01:39:25,200 --> 01:39:27,840
it was a divine assembly
situation and not an apostasy

1756
01:39:27,840 --> 01:39:31,600
situation.
Although, and I don't know for a

1757
01:39:31,600 --> 01:39:34,440
fact on the when the Jews
changed their tune, but some of

1758
01:39:34,440 --> 01:39:37,080
the Jews eventually started
changing their tune because it's

1759
01:39:37,080 --> 01:39:40,880
problematic.
And then they eventually just

1760
01:39:40,880 --> 01:39:42,280
disregarded the Book of Enoch as
a whole.

1761
01:39:42,280 --> 01:39:44,320
Anyways, get rid of the whole
problem.

1762
01:39:44,720 --> 01:39:50,600
But when Jerome translated the
Bible into the Latin Vulgate, he

1763
01:39:50,600 --> 01:39:54,000
was the one who actually started
to, in the early church,

1764
01:39:55,960 --> 01:39:58,520
postulate the idea that it was
an apostasy situation.

1765
01:39:59,040 --> 01:40:01,640
So before that, it was
definitely a divine congregation

1766
01:40:01,640 --> 01:40:05,840
problem, an apostasy from on
high, so to speak, for them to

1767
01:40:05,840 --> 01:40:07,720
Jerome and to the rest of the
church.

1768
01:40:08,440 --> 01:40:10,800
OK.
After the 5th century, it

1769
01:40:10,800 --> 01:40:13,800
became, now these are sets where
we're children.

1770
01:40:14,200 --> 01:40:17,200
But that doesn't really answer
the giants thing, right?

1771
01:40:17,320 --> 01:40:20,000
That's one, that's the criticism
levelled against that opinion,

1772
01:40:20,000 --> 01:40:22,600
right?
Is it gets rid of this supposed

1773
01:40:24,040 --> 01:40:28,560
mystical or supernatural element
of the the offspring being

1774
01:40:28,960 --> 01:40:30,360
giants.
And so you have to interpret

1775
01:40:30,360 --> 01:40:33,480
that allegorically, right?
Which is fine if you do, but

1776
01:40:33,480 --> 01:40:35,680
that just means you have to
interpret it allegorically, not

1777
01:40:35,680 --> 01:40:39,200
literally, right?
All right, So I don't usually do

1778
01:40:39,200 --> 01:40:41,240
this with with guys.
Where do you fall on?

1779
01:40:42,040 --> 01:40:44,440
It man, why'd you have?
To do that, I don't have.

1780
01:40:47,040 --> 01:40:51,840
I don't know if I have a
particular stance besides just

1781
01:40:52,880 --> 01:40:59,400
addressing the arguments.
I would say that Joseph Smith

1782
01:40:59,400 --> 01:41:05,240
did mention in Nauvoo that in
reference to Genesis 6, he did

1783
01:41:05,240 --> 01:41:07,120
say that this in fact, I have
the floor there.

1784
01:41:07,120 --> 01:41:08,800
We're about to get into that.
So let's read it.

1785
01:41:09,880 --> 01:41:14,640
This is in George Lobbs journal,
George Labro that Joseph Smith

1786
01:41:14,640 --> 01:41:17,600
said angels came down and took
themselves wives of the

1787
01:41:17,600 --> 01:41:21,920
daughters of men.
See Genesis 6 verse one through

1788
01:41:22,280 --> 01:41:25,000
2.
These were resurrected bodies

1789
01:41:25,120 --> 01:41:28,880
violated celestial laws.
That's what George Labrov.

1790
01:41:29,920 --> 01:41:35,080
Now I've had people in last
class, in fact I believe it was

1791
01:41:35,080 --> 01:41:38,640
last class pointed out that
seems to be a contradiction with

1792
01:41:38,640 --> 01:41:43,560
Section 130, which says that
there is no angels who minister

1793
01:41:43,560 --> 01:41:46,440
to this earth, but who do who or
who have belonged to it.

1794
01:41:47,080 --> 01:41:52,200
And so if the resurrection had
become taken place yet, how is

1795
01:41:52,200 --> 01:41:56,280
it that the resurrected angels
on this earth siring children?

1796
01:41:56,280 --> 01:41:57,440
So that's the one problem with
that.

1797
01:41:57,680 --> 01:42:03,040
First off, that's one seeming
addiction that I just need to

1798
01:42:03,040 --> 01:42:07,400
point out.
Let's see before I do I skip

1799
01:42:07,400 --> 01:42:13,680
over anything.
But the book of Moses says the

1800
01:42:13,840 --> 01:42:18,040
giants are valid and it says in
Chapter 7, verse 15.

1801
01:42:18,080 --> 01:42:21,440
And the giants of the land also
stood afar off and there went

1802
01:42:21,440 --> 01:42:23,920
forth a curse upon all the
people that fought against God.

1803
01:42:24,320 --> 01:42:28,280
So OK, there were giants
according to our foul Jerry

1804
01:42:28,280 --> 01:42:30,000
Price.
So I guess we can't really throw

1805
01:42:30,000 --> 01:42:33,160
that out.
And I guess it's already

1806
01:42:33,160 --> 01:42:35,760
throughout the Old Testament to,
you know, you have David and

1807
01:42:35,760 --> 01:42:40,680
Goliath and the, the the
Rephaeum and you know, the the

1808
01:42:40,680 --> 01:42:44,040
children of Esau go and comp,
you know, the zoo Zazim or

1809
01:42:44,040 --> 01:42:45,920
whatever.
All those guys that were out

1810
01:42:45,920 --> 01:42:50,560
living in the land of Edom right
up by Mount Seir, they were

1811
01:42:50,600 --> 01:42:54,840
destroyed by by Esau's and
Ishmael's children.

1812
01:42:55,320 --> 01:42:59,480
You know, I think we.
Have to have to wonder where,

1813
01:42:59,480 --> 01:43:03,760
you know, what are they defining
as giants right now?

1814
01:43:03,760 --> 01:43:07,480
Look, I'm a pretty big guy.
I go 62, about 300 lbs.

1815
01:43:08,080 --> 01:43:11,320
But next to Shaquille O'Neal,
right, I mean.

1816
01:43:11,840 --> 01:43:13,520
Oh, sure, yeah.
I'm not, I'm definitely a

1817
01:43:13,520 --> 01:43:17,600
skeptical on like the like I've
heard like 40 foot tall or 4400

1818
01:43:17,600 --> 01:43:20,600
feet tall or 4 miles high giants
that we're talking about.

1819
01:43:20,640 --> 01:43:22,760
I'm like, yeah, it's a load,
right?

1820
01:43:22,840 --> 01:43:25,160
I'm not yeah, I definitely don't
think that's what they're

1821
01:43:25,160 --> 01:43:27,440
dealing with.
But like a Wyatt size, right?

1822
01:43:27,440 --> 01:43:29,560
About 12 feet tall.
I I could see that you.

1823
01:43:29,840 --> 01:43:32,160
Yeah.
I mean, look it, it's possible,

1824
01:43:32,160 --> 01:43:35,240
certainly in the realm of, of,
of, of possibility, right?

1825
01:43:35,240 --> 01:43:38,680
I mean, George Washington was
described as a giant, right?

1826
01:43:38,680 --> 01:43:41,720
He stood 6 foot two for his time
and most guys were 59.

1827
01:43:42,640 --> 01:43:47,160
Also, I think, I think, you
know, the term giant can have

1828
01:43:47,160 --> 01:43:49,040
different connotations as well,
right?

1829
01:43:49,080 --> 01:43:51,800
We, we often look at like if
somebody's really good in their

1830
01:43:51,800 --> 01:43:53,680
business, he's a Titan of
industry.

1831
01:43:53,800 --> 01:43:58,000
He's a giant in the industry.
And so I think those are those

1832
01:43:58,000 --> 01:44:01,120
are terms that that we have to
realize are the kind of loaded

1833
01:44:01,120 --> 01:44:03,080
terms at times.
So.

1834
01:44:03,200 --> 01:44:08,160
And the second.
The second critique.

1835
01:44:08,160 --> 01:44:11,160
I would have of interpreting
angels coming with resurrected

1836
01:44:11,160 --> 01:44:16,120
bodies violating celestial laws
is I'm a believer that lineage

1837
01:44:16,120 --> 01:44:21,240
is somewhat foreordained by
covenant and for a group of

1838
01:44:21,240 --> 01:44:24,880
apostate angels who are
resurrected to go to the earth

1839
01:44:25,520 --> 01:44:28,440
inside our children, you're
bringing spirits into the world.

1840
01:44:29,360 --> 01:44:30,800
Through.
Lineages that were not

1841
01:44:30,800 --> 01:44:34,920
covenanted or planned and I
don't know how that works.

1842
01:44:34,920 --> 01:44:36,240
And that would require
revelation.

1843
01:44:36,240 --> 01:44:40,400
Now I'm open if that's true.
I just God hasn't said how that

1844
01:44:40,400 --> 01:44:42,400
works yet.
And I will be totally open to

1845
01:44:43,000 --> 01:44:45,720
hearing from the Lord how that
works and that would be just

1846
01:44:45,720 --> 01:44:47,200
fine.
I just don't understand how.

1847
01:44:47,600 --> 01:44:51,280
How does people outside of the
plan of God bring children into

1848
01:44:51,280 --> 01:44:54,480
this world?
What caliber or class of spirits

1849
01:44:54,480 --> 01:44:59,320
does that bring in this Enoch
literature?

1850
01:44:59,320 --> 01:45:01,480
It's like these were actually
demons.

1851
01:45:01,880 --> 01:45:06,720
And to this day, because they
got locked up in Tartarus, you

1852
01:45:06,720 --> 01:45:09,920
know, their spirits are the evil
spirits that are on the earth.

1853
01:45:09,920 --> 01:45:13,200
That's what Enoch said.
The books of Enoch say about

1854
01:45:13,200 --> 01:45:14,600
that.
And that's the cause of evil,

1855
01:45:14,760 --> 01:45:17,640
you know?
You know, OK, maybe that's the

1856
01:45:17,640 --> 01:45:19,760
case.
But to me, it's like introducing

1857
01:45:19,760 --> 01:45:22,200
a virus into the computer
program, right?

1858
01:45:22,200 --> 01:45:25,800
And maybe that's what happened,
and maybe that's why God had to

1859
01:45:25,800 --> 01:45:30,320
wipe things out with the the
flood and then the conquest of

1860
01:45:30,320 --> 01:45:33,360
the promised land under Joshua.
I don't or whatever.

1861
01:45:33,760 --> 01:45:37,440
Yeah, I don't know.
But that's one critique I have

1862
01:45:37,480 --> 01:45:41,800
about that paradigm in general,
right as it seems like that's

1863
01:45:41,800 --> 01:45:46,840
that's pretty heavy.
But since we're in it, we can

1864
01:45:46,840 --> 01:45:54,040
address possible.
We can, we can address what

1865
01:45:54,040 --> 01:45:56,840
might make it work, right?
So let's do that.

1866
01:45:57,520 --> 01:46:02,360
Joseph Smith said the world and
earth are not synonymous terms.

1867
01:46:03,000 --> 01:46:07,320
Oh, OK, yeah, OK now.
We're getting into stuff.

1868
01:46:07,680 --> 01:46:10,160
Yeah.
So yeah, second thirty says in

1869
01:46:10,160 --> 01:46:12,960
answer to the question is not
God, is not the reckoning of

1870
01:46:12,960 --> 01:46:15,800
God's time, angels, time,
prophets, time and man's time

1871
01:46:15,800 --> 01:46:17,600
according to the planet on which
they reside.

1872
01:46:18,040 --> 01:46:21,000
I answer yes, but there are no
angels who minister to this

1873
01:46:21,000 --> 01:46:24,680
earth, but those who do do
belong or have belong to it.

1874
01:46:25,400 --> 01:46:28,400
Joseph Smith also said the world
and earth are not synonymous

1875
01:46:28,400 --> 01:46:30,680
terms.
The world is the human family.

1876
01:46:30,680 --> 01:46:34,240
This earth was organized or
formed out of other planets

1877
01:46:34,240 --> 01:46:37,520
which were broke up and
remodeled to make the into the

1878
01:46:37,520 --> 01:46:41,160
one on which we live.
And that's from words of Joseph

1879
01:46:41,160 --> 01:46:49,480
Smith on January 5th 1841.
He also said in remarking upon

1880
01:46:49,480 --> 01:46:53,400
the opening verses of Genesis,
he said in the translation where

1881
01:46:53,400 --> 01:46:56,520
it says without form and void,
it should read empty and

1882
01:46:56,520 --> 01:46:59,120
desolate.
The word created should be

1883
01:46:59,120 --> 01:47:03,320
formed or organized.
He also said on January 5th,

1884
01:47:03,320 --> 01:47:06,720
1841, God did not make the earth
out of nothing, for it is

1885
01:47:06,720 --> 01:47:09,520
contrary to a rational mind and
reason that something could be

1886
01:47:09,520 --> 01:47:12,040
brought from a nothing.
Also it is contrary to the

1887
01:47:12,040 --> 01:47:14,160
principle and means by which God
does work.

1888
01:47:14,280 --> 01:47:17,240
Also, this earth has been
organized out of the portions of

1889
01:47:17,240 --> 01:47:19,960
other globes that have been
disorganized.

1890
01:47:20,640 --> 01:47:23,800
Interesting, very interesting.
What?

1891
01:47:23,800 --> 01:47:28,560
Are we talking other worlds that
have been disorganized, which we

1892
01:47:28,560 --> 01:47:30,960
saw from Enoch earlier?
See if I can find it.

1893
01:47:31,880 --> 01:47:34,720
I might have it actually.
Later.

1894
01:47:34,720 --> 01:47:37,600
Too I, I.
Want to just for a moment, and

1895
01:47:37,600 --> 01:47:41,040
this is this is where I think
the first book of Enoch and

1896
01:47:41,040 --> 01:47:43,760
Joseph Smith are so good
together.

1897
01:47:46,200 --> 01:47:48,240
I'll let you find it and read it
and then I got it.

1898
01:47:48,240 --> 01:47:53,520
So he says in the last days that
in the days of sinners, the

1899
01:47:53,520 --> 01:47:56,320
heavenly bodies will begin to
fall out of phase and an

1900
01:47:56,320 --> 01:47:59,640
evolving chaos will envelope the
earth as both nature and

1901
01:47:59,640 --> 01:48:02,160
humanity grow out of sync with
their prescribed order.

1902
01:48:02,600 --> 01:48:08,960
And in another place, Enoch sees
that God has prepared a place in

1903
01:48:08,960 --> 01:48:13,440
the cosmos for the punishment of
rebellious stars, which deviated

1904
01:48:13,440 --> 01:48:16,840
from God's timetable.
So God is destroying stars,

1905
01:48:17,280 --> 01:48:19,480
right?
Who don't, Who do not follow.

1906
01:48:20,200 --> 01:48:21,800
Yep, his.
Ordained will.

1907
01:48:21,920 --> 01:48:25,960
Yep, this is.
Where Joseph Smith and the book

1908
01:48:25,960 --> 01:48:28,200
of Enoch.
This is where I really riff on

1909
01:48:28,200 --> 01:48:32,880
this, right?
Because if if we just go back to

1910
01:48:32,880 --> 01:48:37,160
that first part where where
Joseph Smith says the term world

1911
01:48:37,520 --> 01:48:41,600
and what was the earth have two
different connotations.

1912
01:48:43,120 --> 01:48:45,240
That begins.
To open up a realm of

1913
01:48:45,240 --> 01:48:48,320
possibilities that, quite
frankly, are mind blowing,

1914
01:48:48,760 --> 01:48:51,320
right?
Because if, as Joseph Smith

1915
01:48:51,320 --> 01:48:54,640
says, the term world really
means.

1916
01:48:55,760 --> 01:48:57,400
Just the.
People who inhabit it.

1917
01:48:58,920 --> 01:49:03,320
Well, that leaves open the.
Possibility that perhaps others

1918
01:49:03,320 --> 01:49:05,760
inhabited it before Adam did.
Yep.

1919
01:49:05,920 --> 01:49:09,200
We're going to get there and.
And this sort of thing.

1920
01:49:10,240 --> 01:49:14,120
And This is why I, this is just
a theory.

1921
01:49:14,200 --> 01:49:17,160
So if there's an archaeologist
out there who wants to yell at

1922
01:49:17,160 --> 01:49:20,760
me later, he can.
But this is one of the reasons I

1923
01:49:20,760 --> 01:49:23,280
wonder if they don't really
dislike Joseph Smith.

1924
01:49:23,920 --> 01:49:28,960
Because right now, as we speak,
new things are being discovered

1925
01:49:29,160 --> 01:49:32,680
that cause things to become
older, right?

1926
01:49:33,640 --> 01:49:36,680
Just as an example.
Boy, I'm going down a weird.

1927
01:49:36,680 --> 01:49:38,600
Rabbit hole now.
Now you're going to get a look

1928
01:49:38,600 --> 01:49:41,360
at what Dave reads in his spare
time as well as gospel stuff.

1929
01:49:42,640 --> 01:49:47,080
If you look at the base of the
Sphinx, it is significantly

1930
01:49:47,080 --> 01:49:53,880
older than the Sphinx that sits
on top of it by thousands of

1931
01:49:53,880 --> 01:49:56,160
years, pushing the dates back
clear back.

1932
01:49:56,160 --> 01:49:58,880
Are you familiar?
With the London Hammer, that one

1933
01:49:58,880 --> 01:50:00,240
too.
Do you know the dates on that

1934
01:50:00,240 --> 01:50:01,120
one?
I don't offhand.

1935
01:50:01,120 --> 01:50:05,920
I don't offhand.
That one's like, it's like there

1936
01:50:05,920 --> 01:50:08,040
used to be a date postulated
like where the origin of

1937
01:50:08,040 --> 01:50:10,160
humanity was.
And this like predates that kind

1938
01:50:10,160 --> 01:50:14,120
of thing, yes.
And then also, when you look at

1939
01:50:14,120 --> 01:50:17,480
finds like Gobekli Tepe, which
seemed to have been buried on

1940
01:50:17,480 --> 01:50:23,920
purpose, all of a sudden, human,
human expansion.

1941
01:50:24,000 --> 01:50:26,840
Well, I shouldn't say, well,
yeah, we can say human.

1942
01:50:28,040 --> 01:50:33,040
Human expansion and human
fingerprints.

1943
01:50:33,440 --> 01:50:37,080
Get whale.
Now we know that current

1944
01:50:37,480 --> 01:50:40,120
archaeologists hate this.
And now I'm going to start

1945
01:50:40,360 --> 01:50:44,560
getting real nerdy.
It upsets Clovis first, right?

1946
01:50:44,560 --> 01:50:47,640
The model that the Clovis people
were the first ones to hit

1947
01:50:47,640 --> 01:50:50,520
America.
They're the the ones primarily

1948
01:50:50,520 --> 01:50:53,160
responsible.
That.

1949
01:50:53,160 --> 01:50:57,000
Upends all of that.
Well, if you got this guy out

1950
01:50:57,000 --> 01:51:01,400
here in 18th century America's
19th century America talking

1951
01:51:01,400 --> 01:51:05,280
about the definition of worlds,
things get a little spicy.

1952
01:51:05,600 --> 01:51:07,240
Very.
Spicy for Christianity, which

1953
01:51:07,240 --> 01:51:10,720
believed that the earth was
created 6000 years ago out of

1954
01:51:10,720 --> 01:51:12,560
nothing, right?
And the.

1955
01:51:12,560 --> 01:51:15,480
Pushback, even the Mormonism,
you know, we have certain

1956
01:51:15,600 --> 01:51:19,120
leaders in the church like
Joseph Fielding Smith Junior,

1957
01:51:21,240 --> 01:51:26,440
who was definitely a believer of
a strict and I think this, I

1958
01:51:26,440 --> 01:51:29,080
think this is emblematic
Mormonism generally speaking, is

1959
01:51:29,080 --> 01:51:30,440
that there was no death before
Adam.

1960
01:51:30,440 --> 01:51:32,400
So how can any of this work,
right?

1961
01:51:32,440 --> 01:51:34,840
You know 'cause it says Adam was
the first flesh upon the earth,

1962
01:51:34,840 --> 01:51:36,640
which means the first mortal
first to die.

1963
01:51:37,240 --> 01:51:39,040
Right, right.
And so how does that all work?

1964
01:51:39,840 --> 01:51:44,680
Well, Joseph Smith says above
that it was desolate and empty,

1965
01:51:44,800 --> 01:51:50,520
which to me that that reads like
it was destroyed and then

1966
01:51:50,600 --> 01:51:53,160
started over.
And so if you view it that way,

1967
01:51:53,160 --> 01:51:55,000
then there's no contradiction,
right?

1968
01:51:55,480 --> 01:51:58,480
Right, and everything starts to.
Piece.

1969
01:51:58,480 --> 01:52:02,120
Together a little easier with
the dates that they're finding

1970
01:52:02,120 --> 01:52:06,040
as well yeah and we also.
Have the scary thoughts from

1971
01:52:06,040 --> 01:52:09,160
Malachi's Promise which says
this is still relatable.

1972
01:52:09,560 --> 01:52:12,280
Joseph Smith says what are we to
understand by this?

1973
01:52:12,280 --> 01:52:15,240
In the last days, in the days of
Noah, God destroyed the world by

1974
01:52:15,240 --> 01:52:18,840
a flood and has promised to
destroy it by fire in the last

1975
01:52:18,840 --> 01:52:22,760
days, but before it took place,
Elijah should come first and

1976
01:52:22,760 --> 01:52:24,680
turn the hearts of the fathers
to the children.

1977
01:52:25,960 --> 01:52:28,120
Now comes the point.
What is the office work of

1978
01:52:28,120 --> 01:52:31,000
Elijah to make sure that that
doesn't happen right?

1979
01:52:31,360 --> 01:52:33,440
Yep, and.
This is where I get on my

1980
01:52:33,440 --> 01:52:37,280
soapbox.
I'll match you OK all the temp.

1981
01:52:37,600 --> 01:52:39,720
I didn't really want to go here
but I have to.

1982
01:52:39,720 --> 01:52:41,480
Oh, it's too late.
You know the name of the show,

1983
01:52:41,800 --> 01:52:44,200
You're good all the temple.
Work that the church is doing

1984
01:52:44,200 --> 01:52:47,320
doesn't matter a damn.
It doesn't matter a damn right

1985
01:52:47,320 --> 01:52:49,760
now because they've changed the
ordinances and they're not

1986
01:52:49,760 --> 01:52:51,760
efficacious.
And.

1987
01:52:51,760 --> 01:52:54,240
We, you and I, if we were to go
through, if we hadn't been

1988
01:52:54,240 --> 01:52:56,720
endowed and we went through,
we're not making the same

1989
01:52:56,720 --> 01:52:58,880
covenants that the pioneer
generation made.

1990
01:52:59,440 --> 01:53:02,040
We cannot be saved on the same
laws and principles that they

1991
01:53:02,040 --> 01:53:05,040
were covenanting to be under.
We're not going to the same

1992
01:53:05,040 --> 01:53:07,200
Kingdom of glory, right?
And.

1993
01:53:07,200 --> 01:53:11,640
Therefore the earth will be
utterly wasted if our hearts,

1994
01:53:11,760 --> 01:53:14,080
the hearts of the children, are
not turned to the promises made

1995
01:53:14,080 --> 01:53:17,040
to the fathers.
The earth will be utterly wasted

1996
01:53:17,080 --> 01:53:19,760
at my coming and.
I'll take it even a step

1997
01:53:19,960 --> 01:53:22,680
backwards further.
This doesn't begin in the

1998
01:53:22,680 --> 01:53:26,080
temple.
This has to begin by digging up

1999
01:53:26,080 --> 01:53:28,120
your records.
Your family's.

2000
01:53:28,120 --> 01:53:31,800
Records, right?
I think a large portion because.

2001
01:53:33,080 --> 01:53:36,440
I I.
I'm not a believer that that

2002
01:53:36,480 --> 01:53:39,240
that the promise by Malachi is
simply you're going to do their

2003
01:53:39,240 --> 01:53:42,120
ordinance work.
When he starts talking about the

2004
01:53:42,120 --> 01:53:45,280
heart, he's talking about
something different, right?

2005
01:53:45,440 --> 01:53:49,040
So in doing your own genealogy,
your own family history, there

2006
01:53:49,040 --> 01:53:52,920
has to be a connection made,
there has to be a love there

2007
01:53:52,920 --> 01:54:01,320
that's involved to get to the
heart and the way that the way

2008
01:54:01,320 --> 01:54:05,200
that quite frankly, in an LDS
temple, you just go in and draw

2009
01:54:05,200 --> 01:54:07,200
a name.
Doesn't do it.

2010
01:54:07,360 --> 01:54:10,320
Doesn't do it, no.
And I don't dispute that at all.

2011
01:54:10,320 --> 01:54:13,320
But I do know that Joseph Smith
said that all men must be saved

2012
01:54:13,320 --> 01:54:15,880
on the same principles.
And he said that in connection

2013
01:54:15,880 --> 01:54:18,960
with temple ordinances being
revealed the same way from

2014
01:54:18,960 --> 01:54:20,800
heaven.
So if you change that, we're no

2015
01:54:20,800 --> 01:54:23,160
longer being, according to
Joseph Smith, we're no longer

2016
01:54:23,160 --> 01:54:25,680
being saved according to the
same principles as others.

2017
01:54:26,160 --> 01:54:30,560
And that causes a no welding
link, as Joseph Smith said.

2018
01:54:30,560 --> 01:54:34,880
And it's all separate.
And we're told that our hearts

2019
01:54:34,880 --> 01:54:37,560
need to be made to the promises
of the Fathers, not the promises

2020
01:54:37,560 --> 01:54:40,760
being made in our generation.
Our.

2021
01:54:41,240 --> 01:54:43,720
Hearts need to be.
In the promises made to our

2022
01:54:43,720 --> 01:54:47,320
fathers, which is the old
endowment, the old doctrines,

2023
01:54:47,320 --> 01:54:49,720
that's plural marriage, that's
law of consecration.

2024
01:54:49,720 --> 01:54:52,960
And if we do not do all those
three things, the, the

2025
01:54:52,960 --> 01:54:57,640
ordinances, plural marriage and
law of consecration, the

2026
01:54:57,640 --> 01:55:01,400
promises made to the fathers to
be saved on the same principles,

2027
01:55:01,600 --> 01:55:05,160
then our earth is going to be
destroyed.

2028
01:55:05,680 --> 01:55:08,680
And I've seen this, it's all
over in the Enoch literature

2029
01:55:08,920 --> 01:55:12,680
about the stars being destroyed.
It's a there's a when I was

2030
01:55:12,680 --> 01:55:16,280
looking at Jewish Kabbalah stuff
for the other lessons in the

2031
01:55:16,800 --> 01:55:22,040
Zohar, I believe it says
literally and Moses says this,

2032
01:55:22,040 --> 01:55:25,240
that worlds without number have
passed away, right?

2033
01:55:25,920 --> 01:55:28,560
And.
The Zohar says that worlds are

2034
01:55:28,560 --> 01:55:31,080
being destroyed all the time
because God refuses to visit

2035
01:55:31,080 --> 01:55:31,800
them.
Yep.

2036
01:55:32,080 --> 01:55:33,960
Yep.
And and I was going to say, it

2037
01:55:33,960 --> 01:55:37,400
has a cascading effect, right?
It's not just a one.

2038
01:55:37,400 --> 01:55:40,080
Boom, you're done.
There's a cascading effect.

2039
01:55:40,080 --> 01:55:42,400
Joseph Smith, I think, alludes
to this when he says when

2040
01:55:42,400 --> 01:55:45,240
there's no change in ordinances,
there's no change of priesthood.

2041
01:55:45,240 --> 01:55:47,320
But when there is a change in
ordinances, there is a change in

2042
01:55:47,320 --> 01:55:49,480
priesthood.
Exactly the corollary, right?

2043
01:55:49,480 --> 01:55:53,800
And so you you get a cascading
event of disasters that come by

2044
01:55:53,800 --> 01:55:58,080
changing those and that fits.
With again reading that again

2045
01:56:00,320 --> 01:56:03,480
the heavenly bodies fall out of
phase in the days of the

2046
01:56:03,480 --> 01:56:07,640
sinners, where humanity also
grows out of sync, the same as

2047
01:56:07,640 --> 01:56:09,280
the stars do with their
prescribed order.

2048
01:56:10,760 --> 01:56:13,720
And so.
Yeah, back to the church.

2049
01:56:14,240 --> 01:56:17,160
The church thinks it's, oh,
priest has been restored, Follow

2050
01:56:17,160 --> 01:56:18,840
the prophet.
Just go to your temple work once

2051
01:56:18,840 --> 01:56:20,880
a month or whatever, whenever
you can spare the time.

2052
01:56:21,440 --> 01:56:23,000
And we got the keys and it's all
good.

2053
01:56:23,000 --> 01:56:28,840
But and they never take this
Malachi's promise in the light

2054
01:56:28,840 --> 01:56:31,720
that I'm presenting it.
And I I want to really double

2055
01:56:31,720 --> 01:56:35,720
down on how important that is,
because what would it mean?

2056
01:56:36,960 --> 01:56:38,720
If.
What's being done in the temples

2057
01:56:38,720 --> 01:56:40,760
in the LDS church?
We're not being accepted by the

2058
01:56:41,200 --> 01:56:42,280
Lord.
What does it mean now?

2059
01:56:42,880 --> 01:56:46,360
Yep, it means.
That we are up for that utter

2060
01:56:46,360 --> 01:56:47,360
wasting?
Yep.

2061
01:56:48,960 --> 01:56:53,280
Orson Hyde taught this too.
He says the earth you remember

2062
01:56:53,280 --> 01:56:55,960
was void and empty until our
first parents began at the

2063
01:56:55,960 --> 01:56:58,560
Garden of Eden.
What does the term replenish

2064
01:56:58,560 --> 01:57:01,040
mean?
This word is derived from the

2065
01:57:01,040 --> 01:57:05,640
Latin re and plenus.
Re denotes repetition,

2066
01:57:05,680 --> 01:57:08,760
iteration, and plenus signifies
full, complete.

2067
01:57:09,520 --> 01:57:11,800
Then the meaning of the word
replenish is to refill,

2068
01:57:11,920 --> 01:57:14,680
recomplete.
Now go forth, says the Lord, and

2069
01:57:14,680 --> 01:57:16,920
replenish the earth.
For it was covered with gloomy

2070
01:57:16,920 --> 01:57:19,400
cloud, clouds of darkness
excluded from the light of

2071
01:57:19,400 --> 01:57:22,640
heaven, and darkness brooded
upon the face of the deep.

2072
01:57:23,160 --> 01:57:27,040
The world was populate, was
peopled before the days of Adam,

2073
01:57:27,320 --> 01:57:29,640
as much so as it was before the
days of Noah.

2074
01:57:29,640 --> 01:57:33,000
It was said that Noah became the
father of a new world, but it

2075
01:57:33,000 --> 01:57:36,320
was the same old world still, or
same old earth still, to use

2076
01:57:36,320 --> 01:57:40,200
that term to to substitute, and
will continue to be, though it

2077
01:57:40,200 --> 01:57:43,600
may pass through many changes.
When God said go forth and

2078
01:57:43,600 --> 01:57:46,560
replenish the earth, it was to
replenish the inhabitants of the

2079
01:57:46,560 --> 01:57:48,840
human species and make it as it
was before.

2080
01:57:49,280 --> 01:57:52,480
Our first parents then were
commanded to multiply and

2081
01:57:52,480 --> 01:57:57,400
replenish the earth.
Dude, there is so much there

2082
01:57:57,400 --> 01:58:02,920
that I think I am in such a
weird spot because I there's so

2083
01:58:02,920 --> 01:58:05,440
much I want to say, but I don't
want to freak people out either.

2084
01:58:05,560 --> 01:58:08,360
I probably did that for you.
No, Oh no, that we don't where

2085
01:58:08,360 --> 01:58:11,440
I'm going is is far, far bigger
than that.

2086
01:58:11,440 --> 01:58:13,400
We'll get we'll get into that
maybe another time.

2087
01:58:13,560 --> 01:58:17,160
So.
In support of all this, Orson F

2088
01:58:17,160 --> 01:58:19,960
Whitney, who is a grandson of
Hebrew C Kimball and Newell K

2089
01:58:19,960 --> 01:58:24,760
Whitney, said on August 19th,
1888.

2090
01:58:25,240 --> 01:58:28,560
The Prophet Joseph also declares
that this earth is composed of

2091
01:58:28,560 --> 01:58:30,520
the broken up fragments of other
earths.

2092
01:58:30,840 --> 01:58:33,440
But why were these other earths
broken up and destroyed?

2093
01:58:34,640 --> 01:58:36,880
Was it because they were
disobedient and kept not the

2094
01:58:36,880 --> 01:58:39,400
law?
But now the Lord says that the

2095
01:58:39,400 --> 01:58:42,560
earth obeys the celestial law,
and therefore it shall be

2096
01:58:42,560 --> 01:58:45,440
sanctified and make glorious,
that those who have kept the

2097
01:58:45,440 --> 01:58:48,920
celestial law may inherit it.
These things are worth our

2098
01:58:48,920 --> 01:58:52,000
serious consideration.
If we fall short in our

2099
01:58:52,040 --> 01:58:55,520
obedience and faithfulness, we
are taking the terrible risk of

2100
01:58:55,520 --> 01:58:58,680
being deprived of our eternal
inheritance on this earth, which

2101
01:58:58,680 --> 01:59:01,800
is to be our heaven.
They who break the Sabbath are

2102
01:59:01,800 --> 01:59:05,520
taking a course that perchance
may enable the earth to rise up

2103
01:59:05,520 --> 01:59:08,960
and testify against them and
spurn them from its presence as

2104
01:59:08,960 --> 01:59:11,240
unfit to dwell upon its
glorified surface.

2105
01:59:12,040 --> 01:59:15,120
So he addresses another key
point to me, which is this earth

2106
01:59:15,160 --> 01:59:18,360
apparently in section 76, I
think, has a promise that it

2107
01:59:18,360 --> 01:59:21,320
will be celestialized.
We, however, don't have a

2108
01:59:21,320 --> 01:59:23,080
promise that will be there,
right?

2109
01:59:23,120 --> 01:59:27,160
And we don't.
And if we don't quicken it, then

2110
01:59:27,160 --> 01:59:29,880
it might just go through another
round of creation.

2111
01:59:30,600 --> 01:59:34,920
Like Orson Hyde says we're
undergoing one that's subsequent

2112
01:59:34,920 --> 01:59:37,840
to the previous one.
And it's just, it's it, it's

2113
01:59:37,840 --> 01:59:41,480
promised its ultimate exaltation
for some reason, but doesn't

2114
01:59:41,480 --> 01:59:43,560
need to wait until it has a
people ready to live on it.

2115
01:59:43,840 --> 01:59:46,840
We don't have to be that people
if we don't live, right?

2116
01:59:47,400 --> 01:59:49,040
Yeah.
If we're not 5th to live there,

2117
01:59:49,600 --> 01:59:51,320
we're not going to live there.
So let me.

2118
01:59:51,320 --> 01:59:55,120
Ask you this question, we're
we're told that the Earth will

2119
01:59:55,120 --> 01:59:58,400
be celestialized.
What does that mean then?

2120
01:59:58,400 --> 02:00:02,800
If you're an inhabitant of this
earth, but then you fall into

2121
02:00:02,800 --> 02:00:06,520
one of those other two kingdoms,
does that mean you still live on

2122
02:00:06,520 --> 02:00:08,280
this?
Earth, I don't think so.

2123
02:00:08,800 --> 02:00:11,480
You're kicked off to live
somewhere else, the terrestrial

2124
02:00:11,480 --> 02:00:15,360
or T lestrial world perhaps.
OK, another.

2125
02:00:15,360 --> 02:00:16,960
Thought this part I might edit
out.

2126
02:00:17,400 --> 02:00:20,360
See, This is why I love Enoch
and Joseph Smith because this.

2127
02:00:20,360 --> 02:00:25,280
Just it goes on forever.
When you think of a Kingdom,

2128
02:00:25,280 --> 02:00:28,120
what do you think of?
I don't know.

2129
02:00:28,160 --> 02:00:30,440
You got a king, you got a
society, you got order,

2130
02:00:30,440 --> 02:00:34,480
structure, Ki.
Like where you're going there?

2131
02:00:35,600 --> 02:00:39,960
So often we tend to think of a
Kingdom in terms of geographical

2132
02:00:39,960 --> 02:00:43,040
boundaries.
Sure, sometimes.

2133
02:00:43,040 --> 02:00:47,800
Though I think a Kingdom can be
more about people who adhere to

2134
02:00:47,800 --> 02:00:52,960
certain laws and ordinances.
Perhaps it's less about

2135
02:00:52,960 --> 02:00:57,400
geographical boundary and more
about rights and privileges.

2136
02:00:59,880 --> 02:01:04,360
And if that's the case, because
we know it is said that that

2137
02:01:04,520 --> 02:01:08,080
those of the celestial world can
go to the other two degrees,

2138
02:01:09,960 --> 02:01:12,200
it's just that those in the
other two degrees can't go to

2139
02:01:12,200 --> 02:01:19,800
the celestial.
So I've been wondering is, is,

2140
02:01:20,400 --> 02:01:23,320
is it less about geographical
location and more about rights

2141
02:01:23,320 --> 02:01:25,600
and privileges?
Could be.

2142
02:01:27,200 --> 02:01:29,440
Just.
Again, thoughts I have late at

2143
02:01:29,440 --> 02:01:33,440
night when I can't sleep.
So let's get into Nibbly on the

2144
02:01:33,440 --> 02:01:35,480
Watchers.
So we've dealt with apparent

2145
02:01:35,480 --> 02:01:37,960
contradictions and apparent
reconciliations, right?

2146
02:01:38,480 --> 02:01:42,920
We've talked about, OK, maybe it
is possible that angels from

2147
02:01:42,920 --> 02:01:45,720
this earth, from a previous
world, however, but still

2148
02:01:45,720 --> 02:01:48,480
relative to this earth who come
and do this, right?

2149
02:01:50,720 --> 02:01:54,320
Nibbly says finding apocalyptic
writing at all in the Bible is

2150
02:01:54,320 --> 02:01:57,040
amazing.
And for those who don't know,

2151
02:01:57,040 --> 02:01:58,720
apocalyptic just means
revelation.

2152
02:02:00,400 --> 02:02:02,640
Then suddenly they discovered
that the whole thing is

2153
02:02:02,640 --> 02:02:04,960
apocalyptic.
All our scriptures here are

2154
02:02:04,960 --> 02:02:06,680
apocalyptic.
That means they are brought

2155
02:02:06,680 --> 02:02:10,000
forth by times of pressure and
crisis.

2156
02:02:10,400 --> 02:02:13,120
They always come forth on the
eve of great destructions.

2157
02:02:13,120 --> 02:02:15,920
That's why they are given to us.
Read the first section of the

2158
02:02:15,920 --> 02:02:18,520
doctrinal covenants.
Harken ye people of the earth.

2159
02:02:18,800 --> 02:02:20,960
Therefore ye people fear and
tremble.

2160
02:02:20,960 --> 02:02:24,560
That's the theme in verse seven
of the 1st chapter.

2161
02:02:24,560 --> 02:02:27,760
Wherefore fear and tremble, O ye
people, this is the message.

2162
02:02:27,760 --> 02:02:31,560
Because these things always come
when they are badly needed, when

2163
02:02:31,560 --> 02:02:34,640
the world has been going wrong.
When when the world has.

2164
02:02:34,640 --> 02:02:37,800
Been going the wrong way for a
long time and it is time to set

2165
02:02:37,800 --> 02:02:40,080
things right again.
But it's always accompanied by

2166
02:02:40,080 --> 02:02:43,160
violent upheavals of nature and
world upheavals, political,

2167
02:02:43,160 --> 02:02:45,080
international and everything
else.

2168
02:02:45,520 --> 02:02:46,800
We are going to get a lot of
that here.

2169
02:02:46,880 --> 02:02:49,280
We see it in the days of Adam
and we see it in the days of

2170
02:02:49,320 --> 02:02:51,200
Enoch.
This gets quite lively.

2171
02:02:51,480 --> 02:02:55,360
You notice here the the fierce
anger is kindled from verse 27

2172
02:02:55,360 --> 02:02:57,600
following.
I just noted some things here to

2173
02:02:57,600 --> 02:03:01,120
be able to do it more rapidly.
The difference from people from

2174
02:03:01,800 --> 02:03:03,800
is that people are following
their system.

2175
02:03:03,800 --> 02:03:06,360
He says they are not following
the system I gave them.

2176
02:03:06,760 --> 02:03:09,200
I gave them a plan, I gave them
instructions.

2177
02:03:09,200 --> 02:03:11,960
They pay no attention to it.
They think that they know better

2178
02:03:11,960 --> 02:03:15,560
and they are doing it their way.
This is a constant theme in all

2179
02:03:15,560 --> 02:03:18,600
this Enoch literature we put on
the board last time.

2180
02:03:19,320 --> 02:03:22,480
That is one of the great crimes.
The classic theme that comes in

2181
02:03:22,480 --> 02:03:25,480
here, and it usually comes a
little later, is the watchers.

2182
02:03:26,040 --> 02:03:29,400
They have this crash program
that begins here when Satan has

2183
02:03:29,400 --> 02:03:31,920
great dominion and the gospel
began to be preached.

2184
02:03:32,440 --> 02:03:35,760
Holy angels were sent forth from
the presence of God and by his

2185
02:03:35,760 --> 02:03:38,960
own voice and the gift of the
Holy Ghost and his prophets.

2186
02:03:39,360 --> 02:03:42,120
In this crash program.
They sent down angels to preach

2187
02:03:42,120 --> 02:03:45,320
and put the people right.
Now this is a tradition that you

2188
02:03:45,320 --> 02:03:48,520
will find spread everywhere,
including in non Jewish sources

2189
02:03:48,520 --> 02:03:52,040
at a very early time.
These were the watchers, the

2190
02:03:52,160 --> 02:03:54,760
agrigori.
They come down to observe and

2191
02:03:54,760 --> 02:03:57,720
then went back to report as
things as how things were going.

2192
02:03:58,080 --> 02:04:00,720
They came down to instruct the
human race and put them all back

2193
02:04:00,720 --> 02:04:01,960
on the planet of the gospel
again.

2194
02:04:01,960 --> 02:04:05,560
But many of them, 200 of them,
according to tradition, fell

2195
02:04:05,560 --> 02:04:07,960
away, were tempted by the
daughters of men, joined with

2196
02:04:07,960 --> 02:04:10,720
them and sinned terribly.
These were the terrible

2197
02:04:10,720 --> 02:04:12,840
watchers.
They knew too much and that made

2198
02:04:12,840 --> 02:04:15,960
them very dangerous.
The Watchers are responsible for

2199
02:04:15,960 --> 02:04:18,400
a lot of trouble here.
You're going to run into them

2200
02:04:18,400 --> 02:04:20,640
all the time.
We are told that they come down

2201
02:04:20,640 --> 02:04:23,880
on top of Mount Hermon, the
highest mountain in Palestine,

2202
02:04:24,280 --> 02:04:28,360
which means mountain of the
Oath. 200 of them came down.

2203
02:04:30,000 --> 02:04:32,160
There and they.
Took their oaths and covenants.

2204
02:04:32,160 --> 02:04:34,840
They gave away the rights of the
temple and they perverted them.

2205
02:04:35,280 --> 02:04:37,000
The whole thing is a right of
perversion.

2206
02:04:37,000 --> 02:04:40,280
They had the same things, but
they perverted them and claim

2207
02:04:40,280 --> 02:04:43,320
that they are being holy, that
they had the priesthood, and

2208
02:04:43,320 --> 02:04:45,520
that they had the covenants.
This was their great, great

2209
02:04:45,520 --> 02:04:47,920
crime, of course, that they had
perverted the real thing.

2210
02:04:48,480 --> 02:04:50,600
Fortunately, we are told that
they didn't have enough

2211
02:04:50,600 --> 02:04:52,960
knowledge.
Their knowledge was limited, so

2212
02:04:52,960 --> 02:04:54,600
they weren't able to destroy
everything.

2213
02:04:55,520 --> 02:04:57,600
Quote, They knew not the mind of
God.

2214
02:04:58,120 --> 02:04:59,840
End Quote, as we are told in
this book.

2215
02:04:59,840 --> 02:05:02,560
So their system was not the
system God gave Adam.

2216
02:05:06,200 --> 02:05:11,880
There's a lot to unpack there,
and for as much as I love Nibby

2217
02:05:11,960 --> 02:05:15,040
Nibbly and I love Nibbly, it's a
there.

2218
02:05:16,640 --> 02:05:19,760
It's hard to tell when he is
speculating himself and when

2219
02:05:19,760 --> 02:05:24,880
he's just putting forward old
literature, and so I'm not 100%

2220
02:05:24,880 --> 02:05:26,320
sure on what to make of all of
that.

2221
02:05:26,960 --> 02:05:31,120
How about you?
I think it's reasonable at the

2222
02:05:31,120 --> 02:05:34,680
same time we're we're dealing
with, we've seen several

2223
02:05:34,680 --> 02:05:37,280
different interpretations of the
watchers thing go on.

2224
02:05:37,280 --> 02:05:42,360
And so whether it's the sons of
Cain or children of Cain offer

2225
02:05:42,440 --> 02:05:44,880
like the oath thing is what's
consistent, like whether it's

2226
02:05:44,880 --> 02:05:48,640
the sons of Cain administering
oaths of darkness that God is

2227
02:05:48,720 --> 02:05:52,040
pissed off at, or whether it's
angels literally who are living

2228
02:05:52,040 --> 02:05:56,760
in celestial glory breaking
their oath by swearing an oath

2229
02:05:56,760 --> 02:06:00,960
to to go down, or whether it's
by revealing temple oaths.

2230
02:06:01,680 --> 02:06:05,680
It could be exclusive.
It could be both at the same

2231
02:06:05,680 --> 02:06:11,280
time and I could see that and
it's the they're just doing

2232
02:06:11,280 --> 02:06:14,000
their own counterfeit thing,
just like Cain seemed to do with

2233
02:06:14,000 --> 02:06:16,320
his own counterfeit gospel,
which we were able to pretty

2234
02:06:16,320 --> 02:06:24,040
well elucidate was happening.
I think they're or it's just

2235
02:06:24,040 --> 02:06:28,480
men, the earthly men
apostatizing as well.

2236
02:06:28,920 --> 02:06:32,720
I think the thing, the moral to
get out of this generally is

2237
02:06:32,720 --> 02:06:35,600
watch what oaths you're making
and don't reveal sacred things

2238
02:06:35,600 --> 02:06:37,360
to those who are not ready for
it, because that can be

2239
02:06:37,360 --> 02:06:38,640
destructive.
So that's the.

2240
02:06:38,640 --> 02:06:42,680
Moral yeah, you're you're just
taking a good newscast a a good

2241
02:06:42,680 --> 02:06:45,360
news reporter.
We report, you decide sort of a

2242
02:06:45,360 --> 02:06:46,120
thing.
That's what I'm.

2243
02:06:46,120 --> 02:06:48,160
Taking yeah, I, I yeah, no,
that's, that's.

2244
02:06:48,160 --> 02:06:50,080
Probably a good safe, safe
place.

2245
02:06:50,080 --> 02:06:52,480
Yeah, dude, to be honest with
you, when you get to the

2246
02:06:52,480 --> 02:06:56,440
Watchers, it's so I'm not sure
we'll ever have a definitive

2247
02:06:56,440 --> 02:06:59,040
answer on that until till the
hereafter.

2248
02:07:00,600 --> 02:07:06,000
But I think there's I think
there's wisdom to be taken from

2249
02:07:06,000 --> 02:07:08,640
no matter which camp you want to
espouse on.

2250
02:07:08,680 --> 02:07:11,720
Absolutely there is.
And so that that's what I'd say

2251
02:07:11,720 --> 02:07:13,480
study, study all the camps,
right.

2252
02:07:13,480 --> 02:07:16,760
Take take all the knowledge you
can from this and and apply it

2253
02:07:17,240 --> 02:07:19,040
where it needs to be.
I absolutely.

2254
02:07:19,040 --> 02:07:23,080
Agree with that.
Let's see, we also have an

2255
02:07:23,080 --> 02:07:29,520
interesting reversal too of what
is the what became no, you know,

2256
02:07:29,520 --> 02:07:34,680
like the the idea and
interpretation that's made

2257
02:07:34,680 --> 02:07:38,240
popular by Jerome of that it's
just men.

2258
02:07:38,240 --> 02:07:41,240
But we see a reversal of that
actually in the book of Moses

2259
02:07:41,240 --> 02:07:45,480
where it says in chapter 8,
verse 13 through 15, it says

2260
02:07:45,480 --> 02:07:47,360
Noah and his sons.
But this is different, right?

2261
02:07:47,560 --> 02:07:50,720
Noah and his sons hearkened unto
the Lord and gave heed and they

2262
02:07:50,720 --> 02:07:54,040
were called the sons of God.
And when these man men began to

2263
02:07:54,040 --> 02:07:56,240
multiply on the face of the
earth, and daughters were born

2264
02:07:56,240 --> 02:07:59,840
unto them, and the sons of men
saw that those daughters were

2265
02:07:59,840 --> 02:08:02,440
fair, and took them wives even
as they chose.

2266
02:08:03,200 --> 02:08:06,160
And the Lord said unto Noah, The
daughters of thy sons have sold

2267
02:08:06,160 --> 02:08:09,440
themselves.
For behold, my angers kindled

2268
02:08:09,440 --> 02:08:11,480
against the sons of men, for
they will not hearken unto my

2269
02:08:11,480 --> 02:08:13,320
voice.
So this is obviously different

2270
02:08:13,320 --> 02:08:16,240
than what Enoch is seeing about
the giants, because we see we

2271
02:08:16,240 --> 02:08:18,520
read earlier that there was
giants in the land in the days

2272
02:08:18,520 --> 02:08:21,240
of Enoch, and that seems to go
with the watchers and their

2273
02:08:21,720 --> 02:08:25,320
aggregory.
But then you know, Noah is the

2274
02:08:25,320 --> 02:08:29,600
great grandson of Enoch and his
granddaughters marry outside the

2275
02:08:29,600 --> 02:08:33,200
covenant and the sons of men.
And that was that did not make

2276
02:08:33,200 --> 02:08:37,400
the Lord happy either.
So you have a reversal as as

2277
02:08:37,400 --> 02:08:43,200
well going on later down the
road where it's not the sons of

2278
02:08:43,200 --> 02:08:45,240
God marrying the daughters of
men, but the daughters of the

2279
02:08:45,240 --> 02:08:46,880
sons of God marrying the sons of
men.

2280
02:08:48,560 --> 02:08:49,600
It's all.
Jacked up.

2281
02:08:49,600 --> 02:08:52,160
It was getting all jacked up
anyway.

2282
02:08:52,160 --> 02:08:54,440
Just something interesting to
note.

2283
02:08:54,440 --> 02:08:59,920
OK, next section, switching
topics kind of stuff back to the

2284
02:08:59,920 --> 02:09:00,920
Pearl.
A great price.

2285
02:09:02,760 --> 02:09:09,240
Enoch's interaction with the,
the Lord who, and I don't just

2286
02:09:09,240 --> 02:09:13,120
mean the Lord he's been talking
to, but actually I think that

2287
02:09:13,120 --> 02:09:15,520
there's an Adam God stuff in
here that's overlooked.

2288
02:09:15,920 --> 02:09:20,600
And I, I think he's actually
talking to Adam as the Ancient

2289
02:09:20,600 --> 02:09:25,560
of Days at certain points
because we go back, right?

2290
02:09:25,560 --> 02:09:33,800
So let's see, Adam's ascension
to heaven was 122 years before

2291
02:09:33,800 --> 02:09:37,480
the city of Enoch left, right.
So there's 122 year period at

2292
02:09:37,480 --> 02:09:40,000
the end of Enoch's life where
Adam's in heaven where he could

2293
02:09:40,000 --> 02:09:41,320
have resumed his position as
God.

2294
02:09:41,360 --> 02:09:47,600
Yeah, right.
So Moses 717 through 19, this is

2295
02:09:47,600 --> 02:09:50,640
around the time period that the
city of Enoch is actually being

2296
02:09:50,640 --> 02:09:53,080
caught up.
I believe it says the fear of

2297
02:09:53,080 --> 02:09:55,480
the Lord is upon all nations.
And so great was the glory of

2298
02:09:55,480 --> 02:09:57,040
the Lord, which is upon his
people.

2299
02:09:57,520 --> 02:10:00,320
And the Lord blessed the land,
and they were blessed upon the

2300
02:10:00,320 --> 02:10:02,760
mountains and upon the high
places, and did flourish.

2301
02:10:02,760 --> 02:10:04,880
And the Lord called his people
Zion, because they were one

2302
02:10:04,880 --> 02:10:07,920
heart and one mind, and dwelt in
righteousness, and there was no

2303
02:10:07,920 --> 02:10:10,720
poor among them.
And Enoch continued in his

2304
02:10:10,720 --> 02:10:13,120
preaching and righteousness unto
the people of God, and they came

2305
02:10:13,120 --> 02:10:15,080
to pass in his days.
He built a city that was called

2306
02:10:15,080 --> 02:10:18,440
a city of holiness, even Zion.
And it came to.

2307
02:10:18,440 --> 02:10:23,560
Pass the Enoch looked, and from
Noah he beheld so he's as

2308
02:10:23,560 --> 02:10:27,840
they're being caught up, he's
seeing the right and from Noah

2309
02:10:27,840 --> 02:10:29,720
he beheld all the families of
the earth.

2310
02:10:29,720 --> 02:10:32,400
And he cried unto the Lord,
saying, One shall the day of the

2311
02:10:32,400 --> 02:10:36,480
Lord come, one shall the blood
of the righteous be shed, that

2312
02:10:36,800 --> 02:10:40,760
all they, that all they that
mourn, may be sanctified and

2313
02:10:40,760 --> 02:10:43,720
have eternal life.
And the Lord said, it shall be

2314
02:10:43,720 --> 02:10:47,400
in the Meridian of time.
So Enoch, as the city is being

2315
02:10:47,400 --> 02:10:51,400
lifted up, is having a dialogue
with God, and he's asking one

2316
02:10:51,600 --> 02:10:53,920
Christ to make.
God.

2317
02:10:53,920 --> 02:10:56,200
Answers that in the Meridian of
time.

2318
02:10:56,880 --> 02:11:01,480
And then it follows that Enoch
saw the day of the coming of the

2319
02:11:01,480 --> 02:11:04,800
Son of Man even in the flesh,
and his soul rejoiced, saying,

2320
02:11:05,040 --> 02:11:08,000
the righteous is lifted up and
the Lamb is slain from the

2321
02:11:08,000 --> 02:11:11,120
foundation of the world.
And then it gets interesting.

2322
02:11:12,040 --> 02:11:14,160
And.
He called unto the Lord, saying,

2323
02:11:14,400 --> 02:11:17,040
Wilt thou not come again upon
the earth?

2324
02:11:17,720 --> 02:11:22,440
For as much as thou art God, and
I know thee, and thou hast sworn

2325
02:11:22,440 --> 02:11:26,080
unto me, and commanded me that I
should ask in the name of thine,

2326
02:11:26,080 --> 02:11:30,640
only begotten thou hast made me,
and given me a right unto thy

2327
02:11:30,640 --> 02:11:33,600
throne, not of myself, but
through thine own grace.

2328
02:11:33,600 --> 02:11:36,720
Wherefore I ask thee, if thou
will not come again on the

2329
02:11:36,720 --> 02:11:39,640
earth?
OK, so he he right there, he

2330
02:11:39,640 --> 02:11:42,440
says in the name.
You've asked me to ask you in

2331
02:11:42,440 --> 02:11:44,840
the name of your only begotten,
and I'm asking you.

2332
02:11:45,000 --> 02:11:47,800
Are you going to come again?
So he's not.

2333
02:11:47,800 --> 02:11:51,560
Talking to Christ, he's.
Talking exactly.

2334
02:11:51,800 --> 02:11:55,120
Exactly he's talking to a God
saying inasmuch as you are God

2335
02:11:55,120 --> 02:11:57,720
and I know you and again, they
knew each other.

2336
02:11:58,200 --> 02:12:01,440
If if this God is Adam, they
knew each other for well, all of

2337
02:12:01,440 --> 02:12:07,000
you in life three, 365 years and
he's asking are you going to and

2338
02:12:07,000 --> 02:12:09,040
and he's been gone.
You know God's been if he's

2339
02:12:09,040 --> 02:12:10,880
Adam, he's been gone for 122
years.

2340
02:12:10,880 --> 02:12:14,040
Are you going to come back again
again, right.

2341
02:12:14,080 --> 02:12:17,360
And he says, the Lord said unto
Enoch, as I live.

2342
02:12:17,400 --> 02:12:20,920
Even so, I will come in the last
days, in the days of wickedness

2343
02:12:20,920 --> 02:12:23,240
and vengeance, to fulfill the
oath which I have made unto you.

2344
02:12:24,520 --> 02:12:27,960
And see, there's so much there,
especially when you start

2345
02:12:27,960 --> 02:12:31,000
unpacking the ancient a dazed
stuff in Daniel and then.

2346
02:12:31,800 --> 02:12:33,520
And then when?
You go and you unpack

2347
02:12:33,520 --> 02:12:36,680
Revelations, right?
And it talks about Michael being

2348
02:12:36,680 --> 02:12:40,080
the one who vanquishes Lucifer,
right?

2349
02:12:40,480 --> 02:12:46,160
All the sudden you're looking at
the return of two gods, Jesus

2350
02:12:46,160 --> 02:12:51,120
Christ and God the Father
himself and now and, and if if

2351
02:12:51,120 --> 02:12:55,000
you're going to say that God the
Father is coming as well, which

2352
02:12:55,000 --> 02:12:59,760
is which it says there in the
Pearl of great price, you then

2353
02:12:59,760 --> 02:13:02,280
have to give credence to the
word again.

2354
02:13:03,120 --> 02:13:06,000
Does the word again, and also in
the days of wickedness and

2355
02:13:06,000 --> 02:13:10,160
vengeance, remember that?
Because in Daniel 7 it says, I

2356
02:13:10,160 --> 02:13:13,080
saw in the night visions, and
behold, one like the Son of Man

2357
02:13:13,080 --> 02:13:16,240
came with the clouds of heaven,
and came to the Ancient of days,

2358
02:13:16,640 --> 02:13:18,960
and brought him near before him
the Ancient of Days.

2359
02:13:18,960 --> 02:13:21,840
And there was given him
dominion, glory, and a Kingdom,

2360
02:13:22,320 --> 02:13:25,000
and all people, nations and
languages should serve him.

2361
02:13:25,040 --> 02:13:27,600
His dominion is an everlasting
dominion, etcetera.

2362
02:13:28,200 --> 02:13:32,680
And then in chapter 12, it says,
And at that time shall Michael

2363
02:13:32,680 --> 02:13:35,800
stand up the great Prince which
standeth for the children of thy

2364
02:13:35,800 --> 02:13:39,400
people, and there shall be a
time of trouble such as never

2365
02:13:39,400 --> 02:13:42,720
was.
So in the days of wickedness and

2366
02:13:42,720 --> 02:13:45,520
vengeance.
And Daniel says that Michael

2367
02:13:45,520 --> 02:13:48,960
will stand up in the ancient
days will come at a time of

2368
02:13:48,960 --> 02:13:52,600
trouble such as never was.
So that's rhetorically

2369
02:13:52,600 --> 02:13:56,680
connected.
Furthermore, in like first Enoch

2370
02:13:56,680 --> 02:14:03,440
chapter 14, Enoch is talking to
the Ancient of Days and he's the

2371
02:14:03,440 --> 02:14:05,800
one that's telling Enoch, I'm
going to send the flood.

2372
02:14:06,400 --> 02:14:08,400
And so we're dealing with a
conversation in the Perla great

2373
02:14:08,400 --> 02:14:11,120
price.
That's literally preceding the

2374
02:14:11,120 --> 02:14:14,160
flood and seeing Noah and the
flood and then the rest of the

2375
02:14:14,160 --> 02:14:18,240
history of the world and then in
the book of Enoch Enochs and

2376
02:14:18,240 --> 02:14:21,640
dialogue with the ancient of
days in a very similar

2377
02:14:21,640 --> 02:14:24,920
conversation and the ancient of
days saying I'm going to send

2378
02:14:24,920 --> 02:14:28,480
the flood.
You know any latter day St.

2379
02:14:28,920 --> 02:14:32,800
should take very seriously
Ancient of Days stuff in other

2380
02:14:32,800 --> 02:14:36,960
literature.
Because Christians and Jews knew

2381
02:14:36,960 --> 02:14:39,840
that was God.
Yes, and Joseph Smith said that

2382
02:14:39,840 --> 02:14:40,960
was Adam.
Yep.

2383
02:14:41,560 --> 02:14:44,720
Yep, absolutely.
And if I'm not mistaken, there's

2384
02:14:44,720 --> 02:14:47,760
some Christians who actually
hypothesized the Ancient of Days

2385
02:14:47,760 --> 02:14:48,920
being Adam.
Yep.

2386
02:14:49,000 --> 02:14:51,120
I've heard that, I've heard
Gabel and I've heard the Son of

2387
02:14:51,120 --> 02:14:54,040
Man is presented as being able
to like vice versa.

2388
02:14:54,720 --> 02:14:58,520
Sometimes it's Enoch, right?
But yeah, but no, I have.

2389
02:14:58,520 --> 02:15:03,520
I have heard that and so.
Like all of a sudden Adam God

2390
02:15:03,520 --> 02:15:05,960
starts to pop in restoration
scriptures.

2391
02:15:06,000 --> 02:15:10,920
And that's that's huge, right?
And it's so subtle, right?

2392
02:15:11,000 --> 02:15:14,440
So subtle.
Oh, but if you understand it, if

2393
02:15:14,440 --> 02:15:18,400
you understand Adam God, if if
you understand, understand

2394
02:15:18,400 --> 02:15:22,920
ancient days, Michael's role in
Revelation, this starts this

2395
02:15:22,920 --> 02:15:25,720
stuff starts to come forward.
So I skipped over earlier.

2396
02:15:25,720 --> 02:15:27,600
Back when we were talking about
Metatron and Should I?

2397
02:15:27,640 --> 02:15:31,800
Yeah, there's other books that
that mentioned Metatron.

2398
02:15:31,800 --> 02:15:34,560
That's not Books of Enoch.
Like there's there's like a 7th

2399
02:15:34,560 --> 02:15:38,400
century Jewish text called the
Apocalypse of Zerubabel.

2400
02:15:38,400 --> 02:15:41,520
Zerubabel was the temple
architect in the you know, so

2401
02:15:41,520 --> 02:15:44,000
it's also, it's attributing
stuff to to him

2402
02:15:44,120 --> 02:15:49,000
pseudographically, right, right.
But in that Metatron is Michael.

2403
02:15:51,920 --> 02:15:56,640
And so you, you're now basically
dealing with the connection of

2404
02:15:57,000 --> 02:16:00,120
Metatron, Shaddai, the name of
God, and Michael all being

2405
02:16:00,120 --> 02:16:04,360
wrapped into there.
That's that's potent.

2406
02:16:04,480 --> 02:16:06,200
Yeah.
This is interesting.

2407
02:16:07,280 --> 02:16:13,040
So we talked a little bit about
how impossible it is for Joseph

2408
02:16:13,040 --> 02:16:15,440
Smith to have had access to the
records.

2409
02:16:15,440 --> 02:16:18,840
Right.
Well, I have another approach to

2410
02:16:18,840 --> 02:16:21,040
this too.
That validates it.

2411
02:16:21,080 --> 02:16:24,240
It's a it's a, it's not an
apologetic, apologetic tactic

2412
02:16:24,240 --> 02:16:25,840
I've heard used before.
OK.

2413
02:16:26,520 --> 02:16:29,200
And so I thought it was
interesting, but in any case, in

2414
02:16:29,200 --> 02:16:31,520
if you go through teachings of
Joseph Smith, which I consider

2415
02:16:31,520 --> 02:16:34,240
like a fifth standard work, it's
basically scripture in my

2416
02:16:34,280 --> 02:16:37,240
opinion.
I think so because, I mean,

2417
02:16:37,240 --> 02:16:41,959
look, there was work both both
its predecessor words of Joseph

2418
02:16:41,959 --> 02:16:47,879
Smith as well as as the
teachings of the Prophet Joseph

2419
02:16:47,879 --> 02:16:50,200
Smith.
Those were verified pretty well,

2420
02:16:50,320 --> 02:16:51,240
right?
No, they're huge.

2421
02:16:51,320 --> 02:16:53,120
Yeah.
Those those weren't just, hey,

2422
02:16:53,120 --> 02:16:55,000
some dude remembered him saying
this.

2423
02:16:55,000 --> 02:16:57,680
No.
Teachings has a gloss or two

2424
02:16:59,040 --> 02:17:01,080
that come to mind.
The biggest one, in my opinion,

2425
02:17:01,080 --> 02:17:04,040
is like what people critiquing
our position say.

2426
02:17:04,040 --> 02:17:08,040
Like we're oh, you know,
assuredly that anyone who rises

2427
02:17:08,040 --> 02:17:11,080
against the church while he
he's, you know, saying that they

2428
02:17:11,080 --> 02:17:12,959
are out of the way while he
himself is righteous, he's on

2429
02:17:12,959 --> 02:17:16,200
the High Road to apostasy.
That like we have no original

2430
02:17:16,240 --> 02:17:22,120
source quote for that.
Adjacent to that idea is where

2431
02:17:22,120 --> 02:17:29,480
he says Harkin E12 and E elders,
any man who betrays his brethren

2432
02:17:29,480 --> 02:17:31,440
know that he's on a High Road to
apostasy.

2433
02:17:31,440 --> 02:17:34,240
You know, betrays the brethren,
right?

2434
02:17:34,280 --> 02:17:37,200
Is what it says.
In the teachings, that's a.

2435
02:17:37,200 --> 02:17:40,120
Gloss and it doesn't say that in
the original account, which

2436
02:17:40,120 --> 02:17:43,559
comes from Wilfred Woodruff,
which the original quote from

2437
02:17:43,559 --> 02:17:45,400
Wilford Woodruff that he wrote
down in his journal and you can

2438
02:17:45,400 --> 02:17:46,879
go look this up because it's all
online.

2439
02:17:47,400 --> 02:17:52,200
He's Joseph Smith says this is a
paraphrase, but it don't I'm

2440
02:17:52,360 --> 02:17:55,200
thinking it's a very good close
paraphrase.

2441
02:17:55,639 --> 02:18:00,440
He says, Hearken E12 And all ye
elders, do not betray the

2442
02:18:00,440 --> 02:18:04,959
revelations that God has given
to you, whether they be in the

2443
02:18:04,959 --> 02:18:07,639
Book of Mormon, the Doctrine
Covenants, the Bible, or any

2444
02:18:07,639 --> 02:18:09,559
other revelations that he may
give to you.

2445
02:18:10,840 --> 02:18:13,480
And do.
Not betray your brethren.

2446
02:18:15,760 --> 02:18:18,680
That reads differently.
Yeah, not the brethren, not the

2447
02:18:18,680 --> 02:18:20,480
hierarchy.
But don't betray your brethren

2448
02:18:20,480 --> 02:18:23,840
and don't betray the
revelations, Right it that's the

2449
02:18:23,840 --> 02:18:26,760
mark of apostasy is betraying
the revelations and betraying

2450
02:18:26,760 --> 02:18:32,280
your brethren.
In any case, he goes on.

2451
02:18:32,280 --> 02:18:37,719
And when he's talking about Paul
and he says in the Epistle of

2452
02:18:37,719 --> 02:18:41,040
Hebrews that Paul's, you know,
he's describing the authorship

2453
02:18:41,040 --> 02:18:43,920
of Hebrews to Paul.
And he says that when he says

2454
02:18:43,920 --> 02:18:46,680
that the blood of Christ has
made a better atonement than the

2455
02:18:46,680 --> 02:18:49,799
blood of Abel, you know, for
offerings for sin or whatever,

2456
02:18:49,959 --> 02:18:54,760
well, Joseph then ruminates and
says, well, how does Paul know

2457
02:18:55,600 --> 02:18:57,719
so much about Abel?
Because there's like one or two

2458
02:18:57,719 --> 02:18:59,160
instances.
And he says well, because Abel

2459
02:18:59,160 --> 02:19:01,920
ministered to him.
Interesting.

2460
02:19:02,000 --> 02:19:03,840
And then he.
Also, I think he says the same

2461
02:19:03,840 --> 02:19:06,600
thing about Jude and Enoch.
And he?

2462
02:19:06,600 --> 02:19:11,480
Says that, you know, because
Jude says in the 1 chapter

2463
02:19:11,480 --> 02:19:16,760
epistle that he has, he says
quite bluntly, he says and from

2464
02:19:16,760 --> 02:19:19,400
the 7th, from Adam we know this
prophecy.

2465
02:19:21,000 --> 02:19:22,639
And then he let's see, do I have
it?

2466
02:19:23,760 --> 02:19:26,320
I think I do have it here.
No, I don't.

2467
02:19:26,320 --> 02:19:27,920
But I'll just pull it up.
Hold that thought.

2468
02:19:29,160 --> 02:19:32,040
No, I do.
It was also these that Enoch,

2469
02:19:32,040 --> 02:19:35,520
the 7th generation from Adam
prophesied saying, See the Lord

2470
02:19:35,520 --> 02:19:38,719
is coming with 10 thousands of
his holy ones to execute

2471
02:19:38,719 --> 02:19:42,440
judgement on all, and to convict
everyone of all the deeds of

2472
02:19:42,440 --> 02:19:45,639
ungodliness that they have
committed in such an ungodly

2473
02:19:45,639 --> 02:19:48,600
way, and of all the harsh things
that the ungodly sinners have

2474
02:19:48,600 --> 02:19:52,200
spoken against him.
And so First off, Enoch's

2475
02:19:52,200 --> 02:19:56,680
quoting Daniel type literature
about the Ancient of Days, 10

2476
02:19:56,680 --> 02:19:59,520
thousands or millions or
whatever the various

2477
02:19:59,520 --> 02:20:01,800
translations.
Many a multitude of angels are

2478
02:20:01,800 --> 02:20:03,920
attending the Ancient of days
when he comes.

2479
02:20:03,920 --> 02:20:07,120
But Enoch he's quoting Enoch
here saying that the day will

2480
02:20:07,120 --> 02:20:11,360
come that 10,000 the Lord with
10,000 or many of his holy ones

2481
02:20:11,360 --> 02:20:14,000
will come.
And so Joseph Smith's like,

2482
02:20:14,000 --> 02:20:15,600
well, how did Jude, how do you?
Know.

2483
02:20:15,600 --> 02:20:23,280
Yeah, Enoch, talk to him.
And so Joseph Smith, what does

2484
02:20:23,280 --> 02:20:25,560
that mean?
Oh, you're fine.

2485
02:20:25,720 --> 02:20:28,920
Joseph Smith wasn't taking the
scholarly approach now saying

2486
02:20:29,000 --> 02:20:32,280
because when now we know Jude is
actually quoting the first book

2487
02:20:32,280 --> 02:20:33,800
of.
Joseph Smith.

2488
02:20:33,800 --> 02:20:38,720
'S not saying Oh well, how did
how did Jude know he had the

2489
02:20:38,720 --> 02:20:40,800
book of Enoch?
He didn't even know about it.

2490
02:20:41,160 --> 02:20:44,480
And so for me, the point to get
a I'm getting across here is

2491
02:20:45,240 --> 02:20:49,200
that's a very convoluted red
heifer or red herring.

2492
02:20:49,400 --> 02:20:52,960
Sorry.
Yeah.

2493
02:20:53,400 --> 02:20:57,560
That's a very convoluted red
herring to throw out there to

2494
02:20:57,560 --> 02:21:00,200
people.
If he was just, if he had

2495
02:21:00,200 --> 02:21:04,120
supposedly had access to these
Enochian records that he himself

2496
02:21:04,120 --> 02:21:08,680
was copying, saying, well, how
did Jude know that what Enoch

2497
02:21:08,680 --> 02:21:13,000
said, oh, he must have talked to
him when he himself had the Book

2498
02:21:13,000 --> 02:21:15,000
of Enoch and was quoting from it
in the Book of Moses.

2499
02:21:15,000 --> 02:21:16,800
Yeah, right.
You think that's likely?

2500
02:21:17,160 --> 02:21:19,240
So we have Joseph Smith
admitting that he didn't even

2501
02:21:19,240 --> 02:21:22,080
know that there was a book of
Enoch essentially right in the

2502
02:21:22,080 --> 02:21:24,280
teachings, in his own words.
He didn't know there's a book of

2503
02:21:24,320 --> 02:21:25,800
Enoch that Jude was quoting
from.

2504
02:21:26,080 --> 02:21:29,560
So there you go.
You like that it gets better.

2505
02:21:29,640 --> 02:21:32,640
It just continues to get better.
Yeah, I've never heard anyone

2506
02:21:33,640 --> 02:21:36,760
tackle that angle, no.
No, but that, that's.

2507
02:21:37,520 --> 02:21:39,160
It's kind of game.
Set match right?

2508
02:21:39,160 --> 02:21:41,280
I think so.
But here's what Enoch says, the

2509
02:21:41,280 --> 02:21:45,520
brook Venick.
So I'll read Jude again, then

2510
02:21:45,520 --> 02:21:47,960
I'll read Enoch.
Jude says it was also about

2511
02:21:47,960 --> 02:21:49,800
these.
The Enoch in the 7th generation

2512
02:21:49,800 --> 02:21:52,680
from Adam prophesied saying,
See, the Lord is coming with

2513
02:21:52,680 --> 02:21:56,440
10,000 of his holy ones to
execute judgment on all and to

2514
02:21:56,560 --> 02:21:59,280
convict everyone of all the
deeds of ungodliness that they

2515
02:21:59,280 --> 02:22:02,240
have committed in such an
ungodly way, and of all the

2516
02:22:02,240 --> 02:22:04,920
harsh things that ungodly
sinners have spoken against him.

2517
02:22:05,560 --> 02:22:09,680
Enoch says, behold, he comes
with myriads of his holy ones to

2518
02:22:09,680 --> 02:22:12,640
execute judgment on all and to
destroy the wicked and to

2519
02:22:12,640 --> 02:22:15,480
convict all flesh for all the
wicked deeds that they have done

2520
02:22:15,880 --> 02:22:18,520
and the proud and hard words
that wicked sinners spoke

2521
02:22:18,520 --> 02:22:20,360
against him.
That's all the money.

2522
02:22:20,720 --> 02:22:24,520
Yeah, that's nearly verbatim.
Yep, absolutely it is.

2523
02:22:26,160 --> 02:22:27,600
I'm sure he's just a good
guesser.

2524
02:22:27,720 --> 02:22:29,600
I wouldn't read into that too
much, Michael.

2525
02:22:30,720 --> 02:22:38,000
So some other fun stuff for
proving Joseph Smith being

2526
02:22:38,000 --> 02:22:40,200
inspired, or a really good
guesser as Dave puts it.

2527
02:22:40,720 --> 02:22:45,400
Abinadiah alludes to Enoch.
Really, it's not a direct.

2528
02:22:45,400 --> 02:22:46,520
Quote.
It's not as good as a direct

2529
02:22:46,520 --> 02:22:52,600
quote as the last one, but like
we covered earlier, OK, it looks

2530
02:22:52,600 --> 02:22:55,480
like some of the first books of
Enoch were written about 300 BC.

2531
02:22:56,040 --> 02:22:59,160
Well, if this is true, if
Abenadi is quoting it, that

2532
02:22:59,160 --> 02:23:01,920
means fragments of it were
actually on the brass plates and

2533
02:23:01,920 --> 02:23:06,000
are actually older.
Much older 600 BC at least,

2534
02:23:06,280 --> 02:23:08,760
right?
Yeah, at least, at least at

2535
02:23:08,760 --> 02:23:10,400
least right.
That's best.

2536
02:23:10,480 --> 02:23:13,280
That's the best case scenario
because 600 would have been

2537
02:23:13,280 --> 02:23:15,320
about the time that if I would
have got the.

2538
02:23:15,560 --> 02:23:17,680
Plates, Yep.
So they had to already been on

2539
02:23:17,680 --> 02:23:20,800
there and so or or they're
coming from direct Revelation to

2540
02:23:20,800 --> 02:23:23,880
Benedadi, I guess maybe, maybe.
But I'm going to go with the

2541
02:23:23,880 --> 02:23:27,280
brass plates thing anyway,
Abinadi says.

2542
02:23:27,280 --> 02:23:29,840
When he's preaching to King
Noah, he says, And it shall come

2543
02:23:29,840 --> 02:23:32,640
to pass that I will smite this
people with sore afflictions,

2544
02:23:32,640 --> 02:23:34,960
yeah, with famine and with
pestilence.

2545
02:23:35,360 --> 02:23:38,040
And it shall come to pass that I
will send forth hail among them,

2546
02:23:38,040 --> 02:23:40,920
and it shall smite them.
And they shall also be smitten

2547
02:23:40,920 --> 02:23:43,640
with the east wind.
And insects shall pester their

2548
02:23:43,640 --> 02:23:45,400
land also, and devour their
grain.

2549
02:23:46,280 --> 02:23:52,080
In First Enoch 76, Five and 10
says, And this alludes to the

2550
02:23:52,080 --> 02:23:54,600
storehouse idea that contains
the elements.

2551
02:23:55,560 --> 02:23:59,720
But the east wind comes forth
through the 1st portal or

2552
02:23:59,720 --> 02:24:05,640
storehouse which is in the east.
From it comes forth desolation,

2553
02:24:05,760 --> 02:24:09,960
drought, heat and destruction.
And after these the north winds.

2554
02:24:10,000 --> 02:24:14,200
From the 7th portal in the east
come dew and rain, locust and

2555
02:24:14,200 --> 02:24:17,440
desolation.
So Enoch is saying that the east

2556
02:24:17,440 --> 02:24:21,040
wind brings desolation, drought,
heat and destruction.

2557
02:24:22,000 --> 02:24:26,040
And then comes rain, locust and
desolation and the Benedai

2558
02:24:26,360 --> 02:24:31,720
saying famine, pestilence, the
east wind and insects will

2559
02:24:31,720 --> 02:24:33,480
pester your land and devour
their grain.

2560
02:24:33,480 --> 02:24:37,240
So it's all, it's all the pain
associated with the east wind,

2561
02:24:38,200 --> 02:24:38,880
you know.
Coming from the.

2562
02:24:38,880 --> 02:24:43,040
Storehouses of Heaven, so yeah.
Chances are he's quoting

2563
02:24:43,040 --> 02:24:45,160
directly from the Book of Enoch
alluding.

2564
02:24:45,160 --> 02:24:47,920
Or paraphrasing too.
But yes, it's not super tight

2565
02:24:48,240 --> 02:24:51,160
but the imagery is extremely
consistent.

2566
02:24:51,160 --> 02:24:53,240
It's tight enough but it gets
better.

2567
02:24:53,240 --> 02:24:55,240
Because Samuel the Lamanite does
quote.

2568
02:24:55,960 --> 02:24:56,960
Really.
Yeah.

2569
02:24:57,280 --> 02:25:01,000
All right, let's see it.
Samuel The.

2570
02:25:01,000 --> 02:25:04,120
Lamanite, when he's on the wall
giving his, his dissertation to

2571
02:25:04,120 --> 02:25:06,960
the Nephites who are wicked,
he's and it makes sense because

2572
02:25:06,960 --> 02:25:09,560
prophets do this all the time.
You know, you see Amos and

2573
02:25:09,560 --> 02:25:12,080
Isaiah and I think there's
another one, Micah.

2574
02:25:12,280 --> 02:25:14,640
Amos, Isaiah and Micah all say
the same thing.

2575
02:25:15,080 --> 02:25:18,040
It's in the last days.
The mountain of the Lord's house

2576
02:25:18,040 --> 02:25:19,960
shall be established in the, in
the top of the mountains.

2577
02:25:19,960 --> 02:25:23,600
They all say that and we don't
know who's quoting who, who said

2578
02:25:23,600 --> 02:25:24,960
it first.
They're all about the same time

2579
02:25:24,960 --> 02:25:26,880
period.
We don't know who said it for

2580
02:25:26,880 --> 02:25:29,760
are they all quoting Isaiah or
is Amos first?

2581
02:25:29,760 --> 02:25:31,480
We don't know, but they all put
it in there.

2582
02:25:31,480 --> 02:25:33,600
So prophets do that.
They quote each other.

2583
02:25:34,680 --> 02:25:37,600
Good Christ.
Christ quoted the prophets when

2584
02:25:37,600 --> 02:25:41,520
he when he was repelling the
the, the temptations by the

2585
02:25:41,520 --> 02:25:45,160
adversary, He quotes Yep.
Deuteronomy and Exodus.

2586
02:25:45,160 --> 02:25:47,400
Yep, Yep.
Yeah, absolutely.

2587
02:25:48,000 --> 02:25:51,320
And so Samuel Lamanite says.
And behold, a curse shall come

2588
02:25:51,320 --> 02:25:54,880
upon the land, saith the Lord of
Hosts, because of this people's

2589
02:25:54,880 --> 02:25:57,320
sake who are upon the land,
yeah, because of their

2590
02:25:57,320 --> 02:25:58,960
wickedness and their
abominations.

2591
02:25:58,960 --> 02:26:02,120
And it shall come to pass, say
at the Lord of hosts, yeah, our

2592
02:26:02,120 --> 02:26:05,480
great and true God, that whoso
shall hide up treasures in the

2593
02:26:05,480 --> 02:26:09,320
earth shall find them again no
more, because of the great curse

2594
02:26:09,320 --> 02:26:12,440
of the land, save he be a
righteous man, and shall hide it

2595
02:26:12,440 --> 02:26:16,360
up to the Lord.
He also says, Behold ye the

2596
02:26:16,360 --> 02:26:19,880
people of this great city, and
hearken unto my words.

2597
02:26:19,880 --> 02:26:23,000
Yeah, hearken unto the words
which the Lord saith, for

2598
02:26:23,000 --> 02:26:27,080
behold, he saith, Ye are cursed
because of your riches, and also

2599
02:26:27,080 --> 02:26:29,480
are your riches cursed because
you have set your hearts upon

2600
02:26:29,480 --> 02:26:32,040
them, and have not hearkened
unto the words of Him who gave

2601
02:26:32,040 --> 02:26:34,280
them to you.
You do not remember the Lord

2602
02:26:34,280 --> 02:26:36,560
your God, and the things which
He has, He has blessed you.

2603
02:26:36,800 --> 02:26:39,960
But you do always remember your
riches, not to thank the Lord

2604
02:26:40,120 --> 02:26:43,000
your God for them.
Yeah, your hearts are not drawn

2605
02:26:43,000 --> 02:26:45,560
out unto the Lord, but they do
swell with great pride unto

2606
02:26:45,560 --> 02:26:49,800
boasting, and unto great
swellings and beings, stripes,

2607
02:26:49,800 --> 02:26:52,400
malice, persecutions and
murders, in all manner of

2608
02:26:52,400 --> 02:26:55,200
iniquities.
For this cause has the Lord God,

2609
02:26:55,200 --> 02:26:58,280
'cause that a curse shall come
upon the land, and also upon

2610
02:26:58,280 --> 02:27:01,320
your riches, and this because of
your iniquities.

2611
02:27:02,400 --> 02:27:06,560
Enoch says.
Any saying to those in the Maybe

2612
02:27:06,560 --> 02:27:09,400
it's in his day or those in the
last days, I don't recall.

2613
02:27:09,400 --> 02:27:12,800
But he says, Woe unto you, ye
rich, for ye have trusted in

2614
02:27:12,800 --> 02:27:16,520
your riches, and from you your
riches shall ye depart.

2615
02:27:17,480 --> 02:27:21,240
That's a direct quote, yeah.
Because you have not remembered

2616
02:27:21,240 --> 02:27:24,120
the Most High that.
In the days.

2617
02:27:24,120 --> 02:27:28,280
Of your riches, that is the
state, yeah, in the days of your

2618
02:27:28,280 --> 02:27:31,000
riches you have not remembered
the Most High and your riches

2619
02:27:31,000 --> 02:27:34,160
are going to be slippery, is the
That's what Samuel says.

2620
02:27:34,160 --> 02:27:36,000
But he says your riches shall
depart from you.

2621
02:27:36,560 --> 02:27:39,400
Enoch says.
He's also goes and says, Woe

2622
02:27:39,400 --> 02:27:43,480
unto you who acquire silver and
gold in unrighteousness, For

2623
02:27:43,480 --> 02:27:48,000
your riches shall not abide, but
speedily ascend from you, and ye

2624
02:27:48,000 --> 02:27:50,080
shall be given over to a great
curse.

2625
02:27:50,800 --> 02:27:54,440
So a supernatural slant is being
given by Enoch, that your riches

2626
02:27:54,440 --> 02:27:56,120
will ascend from you or depart
from you.

2627
02:27:56,960 --> 02:28:00,680
Yeah.
Because they do not remember the

2628
02:28:00,680 --> 02:28:02,200
Lord in the days of their
riches.

2629
02:28:02,200 --> 02:28:04,680
So it's it's direct, it is
correct.

2630
02:28:04,800 --> 02:28:08,160
Yep.
Let's see, do.

2631
02:28:08,200 --> 02:28:10,600
I have what Christ do.
I have all the things that

2632
02:28:10,600 --> 02:28:12,480
Christ quoted.
It's like.

2633
02:28:13,080 --> 02:28:17,000
So First off, some people do
think Christ quoted Enoch as

2634
02:28:17,000 --> 02:28:18,880
well.
In fact, he nibbly said that the

2635
02:28:18,880 --> 02:28:22,040
book of Enoch is quoted 128
times in the New Testament.

2636
02:28:22,920 --> 02:28:27,200
But when the Pharisees or
scribes come to him and ask him,

2637
02:28:29,120 --> 02:28:32,680
if a woman marries 7 men, who is
she in the you know, who does

2638
02:28:32,680 --> 02:28:33,760
she belong to in the
resurrection?

2639
02:28:33,760 --> 02:28:37,200
And Christ says do not know
they, you know, that they'd be

2640
02:28:37,200 --> 02:28:40,120
like the angels and they don't
marry.

2641
02:28:40,400 --> 02:28:43,320
That's like a a kind of an
illusion almost.

2642
02:28:43,760 --> 02:28:46,320
Yeah.
To what we saw about the

2643
02:28:46,320 --> 02:28:49,720
watchers, right?
Shouldn't do that, right?

2644
02:28:49,880 --> 02:28:52,880
You know, and Orson.
Pratt would say his apologetic

2645
02:28:52,880 --> 02:28:57,640
to that because it's been a big
criticism from sectarian

2646
02:28:57,640 --> 02:28:59,640
Christianity against Mormonism.
As you believe you can be

2647
02:28:59,640 --> 02:29:01,120
married in heaven, Orson Pratt
said.

2648
02:29:01,560 --> 02:29:03,800
Yeah, but our marriages aren't
done in heaven, they're done on

2649
02:29:03,800 --> 02:29:04,880
earth, right?
And.

2650
02:29:04,880 --> 02:29:07,120
Sealed.
For heaven, right?

2651
02:29:08,360 --> 02:29:10,400
And so.
Christ is possibly alluding to

2652
02:29:10,400 --> 02:29:19,640
the book of Enoch there, right?
He says also, Oh boy, where was

2653
02:29:19,640 --> 02:29:22,960
it?
Second, Enoch 49, one through 3

2654
02:29:23,080 --> 02:29:28,880
says, I swear to you, my
children, but I swear not by an

2655
02:29:28,880 --> 02:29:31,880
oath, neither by heaven nor by
earth, nor by any other

2656
02:29:31,880 --> 02:29:35,160
creatures which God has created.
The Lord said there is no oath

2657
02:29:35,160 --> 02:29:39,760
in me, nor injustice, but truth.
If there is no truth in men, let

2658
02:29:39,760 --> 02:29:43,080
them swear by the words.
Yeah, yeah, or else, Nay, nay,

2659
02:29:45,480 --> 02:29:47,440
so that's so.
He's quoting Enoch on the sermon

2660
02:29:47,440 --> 02:29:47,880
on the.
Mount.

2661
02:29:47,960 --> 02:29:51,240
Yeah, and.
He also.

2662
02:29:51,240 --> 02:29:55,000
Quotes Enoch in when he's
talking about Judas being the

2663
02:29:55,000 --> 02:29:57,360
son of Perdition and he says
it'd be better for him ever to

2664
02:29:57,360 --> 02:30:01,400
have been born.
That phrase is also in Enoch as

2665
02:30:01,400 --> 02:30:03,120
well.
That'll be better for them.

2666
02:30:03,120 --> 02:30:05,600
Never those who depart from the
truth once they had it.

2667
02:30:05,600 --> 02:30:07,360
It'll be better for them now not
to be born.

2668
02:30:07,880 --> 02:30:10,000
Wow.
Yeah, holy cow.

2669
02:30:10,520 --> 02:30:12,760
So it's good enough.
For the Savior, it's good

2670
02:30:12,760 --> 02:30:14,160
enough.
For the Savior First Enoch

2671
02:30:14,160 --> 02:30:20,680
anyways.
Fascinating and 1st Enoch

2672
02:30:20,680 --> 02:30:22,480
prophecies of the Book of Mormon
coming forth.

2673
02:30:23,360 --> 02:30:27,560
OK, let's hear it.
Enoch says, And now I know this

2674
02:30:27,560 --> 02:30:30,440
mystery, that sinners will alter
and pervert the words of

2675
02:30:30,440 --> 02:30:33,840
righteousness in many ways, and
will speak wicked words, and lie

2676
02:30:33,960 --> 02:30:36,840
and practice great deceits, and
write books concerning their

2677
02:30:36,840 --> 02:30:38,640
words.
But when they write down

2678
02:30:38,640 --> 02:30:41,720
truthfully all my words in their
languages, and do not change or

2679
02:30:41,720 --> 02:30:44,680
minish ought from my words, but
write them down all truthfully,

2680
02:30:45,080 --> 02:30:47,040
all that I first testified
concerning them.

2681
02:30:47,080 --> 02:30:50,640
Then I know another mystery,
that books will be given to the

2682
02:30:50,640 --> 02:30:54,520
righteous and the why and the
wise to become A cause of joy

2683
02:30:54,520 --> 02:30:58,240
and uprightness and much wisdom.
And to them shall books be

2684
02:30:58,240 --> 02:31:00,800
given, and they shall believe in
them and rejoice over them.

2685
02:31:00,880 --> 02:31:04,040
And then shall the righteous,
who have learnt therefore, or

2686
02:31:04,040 --> 02:31:08,240
learned therefrom all the paths
of uprightness, be recompensed.

2687
02:31:11,320 --> 02:31:13,960
That might not just be the Book
of Mormon either.

2688
02:31:13,960 --> 02:31:16,280
That could be the Restoration.
Of the restoration of the

2689
02:31:16,280 --> 02:31:21,040
scriptures, yeah.
Holy cow, that's fascinating.

2690
02:31:23,000 --> 02:31:25,160
And all of a sudden, Enoch
starts taking on more

2691
02:31:25,160 --> 02:31:27,440
importance.
I think so, right?

2692
02:31:27,840 --> 02:31:32,640
If if several Book of Mormon
prophets are are are quoting him

2693
02:31:33,320 --> 02:31:38,320
or if Christ is quoting him, if
Enoch is talking about latter

2694
02:31:38,320 --> 02:31:42,680
day revelation and latter day
scripture, that's huge.

2695
02:31:43,880 --> 02:31:46,600
That's huge.
And also continues to show the

2696
02:31:46,600 --> 02:31:49,880
continuity of a plan that Joseph
said was has been in place

2697
02:31:49,880 --> 02:31:51,920
forever.
Yeah, yeah, it's literally.

2698
02:31:52,280 --> 02:31:54,920
Yeah, prophesying and
foretelling a restoration,

2699
02:31:54,920 --> 02:31:56,880
which, OK, if it didn't come
through Joseph Smith, who's it

2700
02:31:56,880 --> 02:31:59,840
going to come through, right?
Nobody else has made that point.

2701
02:31:59,840 --> 02:32:02,440
No the, the and.
The fact that the Book of Mormon

2702
02:32:02,440 --> 02:32:04,240
quotes it coming from Joseph
Smith too.

2703
02:32:04,240 --> 02:32:06,160
It's like 2.
The two things are just

2704
02:32:06,160 --> 02:32:07,280
testifying of each other.
Yep.

2705
02:32:07,720 --> 02:32:13,840
Absolutely.
So we're nearing the end here,

2706
02:32:13,840 --> 02:32:15,880
but some fun things from the
Book of No, you're good.

2707
02:32:17,160 --> 02:32:20,200
In First Enoch chapter 10,
Michael the Archangel is the one

2708
02:32:20,200 --> 02:32:23,160
that binds the Watchers into
hell.

2709
02:32:23,960 --> 02:32:26,400
So that hearkens back to the
imagery of Michael conquering

2710
02:32:26,400 --> 02:32:27,960
the devil.
Yep, Yeah, being in charge of

2711
02:32:27,960 --> 02:32:35,840
that whole scenario, right.
In Enoch 14 verse 22, you see

2712
02:32:35,840 --> 02:32:37,200
the imagery of the Ancient of
Days.

2713
02:32:37,200 --> 02:32:42,120
So Enoch is seeing the same
thing that Daniel's seeing in

2714
02:32:42,160 --> 02:32:44,680
Enoch 20.
This says that.

2715
02:32:44,680 --> 02:32:49,080
Michael the Archangel is over
the best of men, and he's over

2716
02:32:49,080 --> 02:32:51,000
chaos.
So.

2717
02:32:51,120 --> 02:32:59,280
Also an interesting theme.
First Enoch 25 gives a tree of

2718
02:32:59,280 --> 02:33:01,320
life and temple imagery.
This is interesting.

2719
02:33:01,440 --> 02:33:02,840
This says.
And he said unto me.

2720
02:33:04,720 --> 02:33:07,040
Enoch.
Why does thou ask me regarding

2721
02:33:07,040 --> 02:33:09,720
the fragrance of the tree?
And why does that wish to learn

2722
02:33:09,720 --> 02:33:12,120
the truth?
Then I answered him, saying, I

2723
02:33:12,120 --> 02:33:15,360
wish to know about everything,
but especially about this tree.

2724
02:33:15,720 --> 02:33:18,600
And he answered, saying, This is
Raphael, I believe, talking to

2725
02:33:18,600 --> 02:33:21,240
him.
This high mountain which which

2726
02:33:21,240 --> 02:33:24,360
thou has seen, whose summit is
like the throne of God, is His

2727
02:33:24,360 --> 02:33:27,400
throne, where the holy Great
One, the Lord of Glory, the

2728
02:33:27,400 --> 02:33:30,120
Eternal King, will sit.
And when he shall come down to

2729
02:33:30,120 --> 02:33:33,240
visit the earth with goodness
and.

2730
02:33:33,640 --> 02:33:36,920
And As for this fragrant tree,
no mortal is permitted to touch

2731
02:33:36,920 --> 02:33:40,440
it till the great Judgement,
when he takes, when he shall

2732
02:33:40,440 --> 02:33:43,400
take vengeance on all, and bring
everything to its consummation

2733
02:33:43,400 --> 02:33:45,520
forever.
It shall then be given to the

2734
02:33:45,520 --> 02:33:48,920
righteous and holy.
Its fruit shall be food for the

2735
02:33:48,920 --> 02:33:50,680
elect.
It shall be.

2736
02:33:50,680 --> 02:33:53,880
Transplanted to the holy place,
to the temple of the Lord, the

2737
02:33:53,880 --> 02:33:57,280
eternal King.
Then shall they rejoice with joy

2738
02:33:57,280 --> 02:34:00,440
and be glad, and into the holy
place shall they enter.

2739
02:34:00,720 --> 02:34:03,520
And it's fragrant fragrance
shall be in their bones, and

2740
02:34:03,520 --> 02:34:04,840
they shall live long on the
earth.

2741
02:34:05,960 --> 02:34:10,800
So that is stark temple imagery.
Yep, and it hearkens to the

2742
02:34:10,800 --> 02:34:13,960
revelation of John at the end of
the Testament where the Tree of

2743
02:34:13,960 --> 02:34:17,800
Life is in the New Jerusalem,
which its architecture is

2744
02:34:18,720 --> 02:34:21,280
identical to the Holy of Holies
of the Temple of the Perfect

2745
02:34:21,320 --> 02:34:24,640
Cube.
The, the temple in Solomon's

2746
02:34:24,640 --> 02:34:28,800
Temple was, I don't want to say
10 cubits high, I don't know,

2747
02:34:31,480 --> 02:34:36,400
maybe it was 20, but 1010 cubits
cubed all the way around the

2748
02:34:36,560 --> 02:34:41,640
perfect cube.
The new Jerusalem John sees is

2749
02:34:41,640 --> 02:34:46,600
1500 miles cubed.
But the Tree of Life is there.

2750
02:34:46,960 --> 02:34:50,600
And we know that the Tree of
Life was a relic or something,

2751
02:34:50,640 --> 02:34:54,560
the menorah, right, representing
the, the Tree of life was a

2752
02:34:54,560 --> 02:34:59,680
relic in the Holy of Holies.
And so this is temple literature

2753
02:34:59,680 --> 02:35:02,480
that Enoch is seeing.
It's the restoration of the

2754
02:35:02,480 --> 02:35:05,400
Temple.
And when we realized also, we

2755
02:35:05,400 --> 02:35:09,080
talked about how First Enoch was
something that was held to by

2756
02:35:09,320 --> 02:35:12,760
people like the Essenes, who are
temple exiles, right, Priest

2757
02:35:12,760 --> 02:35:14,920
exiles.
They're looking forward to the

2758
02:35:14,920 --> 02:35:18,160
restoration of the temple.
Yes, in its true sense, in the

2759
02:35:18,160 --> 02:35:21,280
last days, that's what they're
seeing here, OK, and writing

2760
02:35:21,280 --> 02:35:23,360
about.
Who and they're seeing that in

2761
02:35:23,360 --> 02:35:25,360
Enoch.
Wow.

2762
02:35:25,480 --> 02:35:26,600
And.
That's what John is saying is

2763
02:35:26,600 --> 02:35:28,720
going to happen too.
The rest it's the restoration of

2764
02:35:28,720 --> 02:35:30,640
the novel.
Two or three witnesses, Yeah,

2765
02:35:31,800 --> 02:35:35,400
absolutely.
In first Enoch 32, the tree of

2766
02:35:35,400 --> 02:35:37,960
knowledge of good and evil is
called simply the Tree of

2767
02:35:37,960 --> 02:35:39,120
Wisdom.
So we dealt with the tree of

2768
02:35:39,120 --> 02:35:42,840
life a second ago.
But Enoch says how beautiful is

2769
02:35:42,840 --> 02:35:44,880
the tree and how attractive is
its look.

2770
02:35:44,920 --> 02:35:47,600
Then Raphael, the holy Angel,
who was with me, answered and

2771
02:35:47,600 --> 02:35:51,000
said, This is the tree of
wisdom, of which thy father of

2772
02:35:51,000 --> 02:35:54,920
old, and thy aged mother who
were before the have eaten.

2773
02:35:54,920 --> 02:35:57,600
And they learned wisdom and
their eyes were opened and they

2774
02:35:57,600 --> 02:35:59,960
knew that they were naked and
were driven out of the garden.

2775
02:36:00,600 --> 02:36:02,200
So I just like that treated
wisdom.

2776
02:36:02,480 --> 02:36:05,000
Yep.
Absolutely, absolutely.

2777
02:36:05,000 --> 02:36:08,720
I think that's much better.
The. 1st.

2778
02:36:08,800 --> 02:36:13,680
Enoch 46 The Ancient of Days.
They call him the head of days

2779
02:36:13,680 --> 02:36:19,400
in this, but he says, And I saw
one who had a head of days, and

2780
02:36:19,400 --> 02:36:23,000
his head was like wool, and with
him was another being, whose

2781
02:36:23,000 --> 02:36:25,960
countenance had the appearance
of a man, and his face with full

2782
02:36:25,960 --> 02:36:29,200
was full of graciousness, like
one of the holy angels.

2783
02:36:29,560 --> 02:36:32,120
And I asked the Angel who went
with me, and showed me all the

2784
02:36:32,120 --> 02:36:36,080
hidden things concerning that
Son of man, who he was, and

2785
02:36:36,080 --> 02:36:38,920
whence he was, and why he went
with the head of Days.

2786
02:36:39,320 --> 02:36:41,960
And he answered and said unto
me, This is the Son of man, who

2787
02:36:41,960 --> 02:36:45,240
hath righteousness, with whom
dwelleth righteousness, and who

2788
02:36:45,240 --> 02:36:48,280
revealeth all the treasures of
that which is hidden, because

2789
02:36:48,280 --> 02:36:52,200
the Lord of Spirits has chosen
him, and whose lot hath the pre

2790
02:36:52,200 --> 02:36:54,680
eminence before the Lord of
spirits and uprightness forever.

2791
02:36:54,880 --> 02:37:00,400
And he goes on to talk about how
the Son of Man was named in the

2792
02:37:00,400 --> 02:37:04,080
presence of the Lord of spirits
even before the sun and the

2793
02:37:04,080 --> 02:37:07,200
constellations were created and
before the stars of heaven were

2794
02:37:07,200 --> 02:37:09,920
made.
So the Son of Man was named

2795
02:37:09,960 --> 02:37:15,160
before all of that.
He sees stuff.

2796
02:37:15,480 --> 02:37:18,120
It's all Daniel 7 imagery.
And in those days, I saw the

2797
02:37:18,120 --> 02:37:20,560
head of days sit down on the
throne of his glory in the books

2798
02:37:20,560 --> 02:37:23,280
of the living were opened in
front of him, and all of his

2799
02:37:23,280 --> 02:37:26,480
host, which dwell in the heavens
above, and his counsel were

2800
02:37:26,480 --> 02:37:29,400
standing in front of him.
And so this goes all way back to

2801
02:37:29,400 --> 02:37:31,440
the books that we talked about
at the very beginning of the

2802
02:37:31,440 --> 02:37:34,840
podcast, the books of the
records of Adam and Adam and

2803
02:37:34,840 --> 02:37:37,000
Seth and Enoch, all writing,
right?

2804
02:37:37,640 --> 02:37:39,400
The things that we're going to
be judged out of.

2805
02:37:41,160 --> 02:37:43,960
And at that hour the Son of Man
was named in the presence of the

2806
02:37:43,960 --> 02:37:46,080
Lord of Spirits.
And in those.

2807
02:37:46,080 --> 02:37:50,000
Days, the Chosen One will sit on
his throne, the Head of Days,

2808
02:37:51,120 --> 02:37:54,040
and all the secrets of wisdom
will flow out from the counsel

2809
02:37:54,040 --> 02:37:57,120
of his mouth, For the Lord of
Spirits hath appointed him and

2810
02:37:57,120 --> 02:38:02,240
glorified him.
That is all Daniel's stuff

2811
02:38:02,240 --> 02:38:07,000
isn't.
It in first Enoch's chapter 65.

2812
02:38:07,000 --> 02:38:10,280
It's the book of Noah.
In the Book of Enoch, we see

2813
02:38:10,280 --> 02:38:13,760
Noah crying out to Enoch.
He was already ascended into

2814
02:38:13,760 --> 02:38:14,480
heaven.
He's gone.

2815
02:38:14,680 --> 02:38:19,360
You know Noah is crying out to
Enoch three times in prayer with

2816
02:38:19,360 --> 02:38:21,680
his arms outstretched.
Familiar.

2817
02:38:21,880 --> 02:38:28,480
Yeah, familiar.
And he says ruin is accomplished

2818
02:38:28,480 --> 02:38:30,840
because the angels have revealed
the mysteries.

2819
02:38:30,840 --> 02:38:33,960
They have no place of repentance
forever because they have shown

2820
02:38:33,960 --> 02:38:36,200
them what was hidden and they
are damned.

2821
02:38:36,200 --> 02:38:39,640
But As for thee, my son, that's
Enoch speaking to Noah.

2822
02:38:40,040 --> 02:38:42,960
The Lord of Spirits knows that
thou art pure and guiltless of

2823
02:38:42,960 --> 02:38:44,760
this reproach concerning the
secrets.

2824
02:38:45,400 --> 02:38:48,720
So that insinuates that there's
some temple stuff being revealed

2825
02:38:48,880 --> 02:38:52,600
there.
And then in response, Noah gets

2826
02:38:52,640 --> 02:38:56,120
a book of secrets from Enoch,
who he's given heavenly books

2827
02:38:56,120 --> 02:39:04,080
from Enoch during this dialogue.
Also, the author of the of the

2828
02:39:04,320 --> 02:39:09,400
first Enoch ascribes that the
watchers were the first people

2829
02:39:09,400 --> 02:39:11,240
to show.
They were the first to show

2830
02:39:11,240 --> 02:39:14,440
people how to commit abortions.
Oh.

2831
02:39:15,360 --> 02:39:18,000
You have that, I don't have the.
Verse here, but I just have the

2832
02:39:18,000 --> 02:39:20,960
footnote in my in my notes here.
Really.

2833
02:39:20,960 --> 02:39:22,880
I could try to look.
For it if you.

2834
02:39:23,160 --> 02:39:24,000
Yeah, yeah.
OK.

2835
02:39:24,000 --> 02:39:27,360
I'll pull it up.
Because this one's near and

2836
02:39:27,360 --> 02:39:28,760
dear.
In my heart, I know it is.

2837
02:39:28,920 --> 02:39:31,360
That's why I brought it up, and
it is to me too.

2838
02:39:31,360 --> 02:39:33,440
Yeah.
So I'm talking about the

2839
02:39:33,440 --> 02:39:35,640
different Princess of the 200
angels.

2840
02:39:35,640 --> 02:39:39,120
And he says, And the 5th was
Cass de Ha.

2841
02:39:39,880 --> 02:39:42,560
This is he who showed the
children of men all the wicked

2842
02:39:42,560 --> 02:39:45,920
smitings of spirits and demons,
and the smitings of the embryo

2843
02:39:45,920 --> 02:39:49,800
in the womb that it that it may
pass away, and the smitings of

2844
02:39:49,800 --> 02:39:52,680
the soul, the bites of the
serpent, and the smitings which

2845
02:39:53,360 --> 02:39:55,400
befall through the noontide
heat.

2846
02:39:55,440 --> 02:40:01,080
The son of the serpent named
Taba ET So yeah, the smitings of

2847
02:40:01,080 --> 02:40:06,320
the of the embryo in the womb.
OK, so a couple things jump out

2848
02:40:06,320 --> 02:40:10,760
to me here.
First off, when when do we

2849
02:40:10,760 --> 02:40:14,840
figure first Enoch was was
written 300 BC, but between?

2850
02:40:15,080 --> 02:40:17,640
The different fragments were
written between 301 in the 1st

2851
02:40:17,640 --> 02:40:22,680
century BC.
That's awfully early to be

2852
02:40:22,680 --> 02:40:25,360
understanding.
A fertilized egg as an embryo,

2853
02:40:26,080 --> 02:40:27,760
that's.
True, that's.

2854
02:40:27,760 --> 02:40:33,920
Awfully early, which means that
that knowledge was definitely

2855
02:40:33,920 --> 02:40:38,440
handed down.
OK, that speaks to the veracity.

2856
02:40:39,160 --> 02:40:43,200
The other thing I'll say is that
if they had an understanding of

2857
02:40:43,200 --> 02:40:49,160
the embryo, all of a sudden you
have a time frame in which

2858
02:40:49,160 --> 02:40:51,800
you're working with on when
it's, quote, acceptable.

2859
02:40:52,720 --> 02:40:56,840
And I'm not seeing very much the
wiggle room there, like moment

2860
02:40:56,840 --> 02:41:02,560
of conception kind of stuff.
The other thing I'll say is that

2861
02:41:03,120 --> 02:41:06,000
when you start talking about
abortion, you're now dealing

2862
02:41:06,000 --> 02:41:11,520
with a much more ancient evil.
Yeah, and, and, and for some

2863
02:41:11,520 --> 02:41:13,920
reason, the more ancient it is,
the darker it feels.

2864
02:41:15,600 --> 02:41:19,200
That's fascinating stuff, I.
Think so too.

2865
02:41:20,040 --> 02:41:22,960
And if that's one of the sins
that caused God to be like

2866
02:41:24,160 --> 02:41:27,080
flooded, Yep, flooded.
Yeah, we're.

2867
02:41:27,120 --> 02:41:30,560
And that means we're near for a
burning in our world well.

2868
02:41:31,960 --> 02:41:34,240
I I flooded again, so it's.
Going to be burning this.

2869
02:41:35,240 --> 02:41:37,960
Time.
Look, there's a pattern set in

2870
02:41:37,960 --> 02:41:41,000
the Old Testament.
Every time the children of

2871
02:41:41,000 --> 02:41:44,560
Israel start screwing around
with ball and his pantheons,

2872
02:41:46,560 --> 02:41:49,960
crap go sideways, right?
You can bet destructions at the

2873
02:41:49,960 --> 02:41:52,520
door.
And God being no respecter of

2874
02:41:52,520 --> 02:41:55,760
persons, I would expect the same
same thing on our end.

2875
02:41:56,720 --> 02:41:59,200
So.
Around this time, too, you know

2876
02:41:59,200 --> 02:42:01,640
that the angels are leaving
heaven and they're making their

2877
02:42:01,640 --> 02:42:06,400
oath to go, you know, to do what
they're doing.

2878
02:42:07,480 --> 02:42:13,280
One of the angels is appointed,
I guess, to go talk to Michael,

2879
02:42:13,760 --> 02:42:18,960
and they asked him to reveal a
hidden name associated with an

2880
02:42:18,960 --> 02:42:24,080
oath.
And it says that the power of

2881
02:42:24,080 --> 02:42:27,680
the oath was in the hand of
Michael, and through that oath

2882
02:42:27,800 --> 02:42:30,120
brought forth creation and
governed creation.

2883
02:42:31,680 --> 02:42:33,560
And so actually I think I have
the whole thing here.

2884
02:42:35,400 --> 02:42:38,080
And this one told the holy
Michael that he should show him

2885
02:42:38,080 --> 02:42:41,240
the secret name, so that they
might mention it in the oath, so

2886
02:42:41,240 --> 02:42:43,880
that those who showed the sons
of men everything that is secret

2887
02:42:44,120 --> 02:42:45,840
trembled before that name and
oath.

2888
02:42:46,240 --> 02:42:48,960
And this is the power of that
oath, for it is powerful and

2889
02:42:48,960 --> 02:42:52,040
strong.
And he placed this oath in

2890
02:42:52,040 --> 02:42:54,480
charge.
May God place this oath in the

2891
02:42:54,480 --> 02:42:58,000
charge of the Holy Michael.
And these are the secrets of

2892
02:42:58,000 --> 02:43:00,440
this oath, and they are strong
through this oath.

2893
02:43:00,520 --> 02:43:03,840
And heaven was suspended before
the world was created, and

2894
02:43:03,840 --> 02:43:07,880
forever through the oath, right.
And through it the earth was

2895
02:43:07,880 --> 02:43:10,720
founded upon the water.
And from the hidden recesses of

2896
02:43:10,720 --> 02:43:12,440
the mountains come beautiful
waters.

2897
02:43:12,440 --> 02:43:15,280
And from the creation of the
world and forever and through

2898
02:43:15,280 --> 02:43:19,800
that oath, the sea was created,
and its foundation for the time

2899
02:43:19,800 --> 02:43:22,640
of anger.
He placed it for it, the sand,

2900
02:43:22,760 --> 02:43:25,560
and it does not go beyond it.
From the creation of the world

2901
02:43:25,560 --> 02:43:28,600
and forever and through that
oath, the deeps were made firm.

2902
02:43:29,160 --> 02:43:31,600
And they stand and do not move
from their place and the

2903
02:43:31,600 --> 02:43:34,600
creation of the world, From the
creation of the world and

2904
02:43:34,600 --> 02:43:36,800
forever.
And through that oath, the sun

2905
02:43:36,800 --> 02:43:39,880
and the moon complete their
course and do not transgress,

2906
02:43:39,960 --> 02:43:43,400
transgress their command.
From the creation of the world

2907
02:43:43,400 --> 02:43:45,960
and forever.
And through that oath, the stars

2908
02:43:45,960 --> 02:43:48,200
complete their course.
And he calls their names and

2909
02:43:48,200 --> 02:43:51,160
they answer him from the
creation of the world and

2910
02:43:51,160 --> 02:43:53,720
forever.
And so the angels are asking

2911
02:43:53,720 --> 02:43:57,240
Michael to reveal certain things
so they can do other certain

2912
02:43:57,240 --> 02:44:00,760
things.
So yeah, just interesting.

2913
02:44:02,280 --> 02:44:04,040
Can't wait to.
Get the full back story.

2914
02:44:04,160 --> 02:44:06,480
Yeah, and Michael the.
Archangel's got the oath.

2915
02:44:06,640 --> 02:44:08,880
That's got the power of creation
right.

2916
02:44:09,840 --> 02:44:13,800
Right, and the name.
Associated Yeah, yeah.

2917
02:44:15,600 --> 02:44:21,200
In Enoch 71, Enoch is traveling
through the seven heavens, and

2918
02:44:21,200 --> 02:44:23,800
Michael's the guide.
And so Michael takes him into

2919
02:44:23,800 --> 02:44:27,680
the, you know, into the highest
right, You know, And so that's

2920
02:44:27,680 --> 02:44:35,720
cool.
Let's see first Enoch 99 also

2921
02:44:35,720 --> 02:44:38,640
talking about the the the
watchers revealing secrets.

2922
02:44:38,640 --> 02:44:41,480
He says, woe unto them that
pervert the words of uprightness

2923
02:44:41,480 --> 02:44:44,960
and transgress the eternal law
and transform them into what

2924
02:44:44,960 --> 02:44:49,800
they are not.
It's interesting to note here,

2925
02:44:49,800 --> 02:44:55,080
too, that the the angels who
went and made this oath to break

2926
02:44:55,080 --> 02:45:01,040
their oaths that they had made
allegedly did so seemingly.

2927
02:45:01,040 --> 02:45:03,240
Like they thought that the Lord
would forgive them because,

2928
02:45:03,240 --> 02:45:05,440
like, the Lord forgives, right?
Yeah.

2929
02:45:05,560 --> 02:45:07,360
You repent.
That's part of the gospel.

2930
02:45:08,560 --> 02:45:12,200
And so they ask Enoch.
A lot of the dialogue is, you

2931
02:45:12,200 --> 02:45:15,160
know, when after Enoch's
traveling through the stars and

2932
02:45:15,160 --> 02:45:20,120
the heavens and stuff like that,
the Lord sends him to go talk to

2933
02:45:20,120 --> 02:45:22,840
the watchers who are in hell,
essentially.

2934
02:45:22,920 --> 02:45:28,040
And they ask Enoch to intercede
on their behalf.

2935
02:45:28,400 --> 02:45:31,040
Like, can you ask the Lord to
forgive us?

2936
02:45:31,800 --> 02:45:33,800
We'll repent.
You know, like it was

2937
02:45:33,800 --> 02:45:36,640
premeditated.
But yeah, there's, it just shows

2938
02:45:36,640 --> 02:45:38,920
you there's some things you
can't come back from that are,

2939
02:45:39,280 --> 02:45:41,240
you know, taken very seriously.
Yeah.

2940
02:45:41,280 --> 02:45:43,240
Yeah, there's yeah.
And revealing.

2941
02:45:43,240 --> 02:45:44,800
Those things, the holy things
are.

2942
02:45:45,880 --> 02:45:46,800
Kind of one.
Of them?

2943
02:45:47,280 --> 02:45:49,120
You mean like stuff?
In the temple, yeah, stuff that.

2944
02:45:49,120 --> 02:45:51,720
Used to have penalties but don't
they don't longer have

2945
02:45:51,720 --> 02:45:54,480
penalties, right?
Yeah.

2946
02:45:54,600 --> 02:45:56,480
Yeah.
It was a big.

2947
02:45:56,480 --> 02:45:58,560
Deal to the Lord is what I'm
saying, yeah.

2948
02:45:58,880 --> 02:46:02,680
Yeah, I mean.
In Enoch 22nd Enoch, we're in

2949
02:46:02,680 --> 02:46:05,440
second Enoch.
I found this interesting. 22

2950
02:46:05,440 --> 02:46:08,840
verse 8 And the Lord said to
Michael to go and take Enoch

2951
02:46:08,960 --> 02:46:11,640
from out of his earthly
garments, and anoint him with my

2952
02:46:11,640 --> 02:46:14,520
sweet ointment, and put him in
the garments of my glory.

2953
02:46:17,840 --> 02:46:21,840
Second, Enoch 31 three and he
was continually in paradise.

2954
02:46:23,160 --> 02:46:25,320
And the.
Devil understood that I wanted

2955
02:46:25,320 --> 02:46:29,240
to create another world because
Adam was Lord on earth to rule

2956
02:46:29,240 --> 02:46:31,600
and control it.
And so they're talking about the

2957
02:46:31,960 --> 02:46:35,760
Satan's interloping, right?
And God is telling Enoch that

2958
02:46:36,520 --> 02:46:39,960
Satan knew I was creating
another world, and so he was

2959
02:46:39,960 --> 02:46:43,600
trying to mess up the program.
So the fact that there's other

2960
02:46:43,600 --> 02:46:48,600
worlds and there's so much,
yeah, that's huge in these.

2961
02:46:48,600 --> 02:46:51,840
Last, in these last little bits,
what we're getting is a ton of

2962
02:46:51,840 --> 02:46:56,240
temple imagery.
Yeah, that should leave little

2963
02:46:56,240 --> 02:46:59,000
to the imagination of the
initiated.

2964
02:46:59,560 --> 02:47:08,960
Yes, very little of second Enoch
33 verse 5 he taught God talks

2965
02:47:08,960 --> 02:47:11,560
to Enoch about the destruction
of creation that we talked about

2966
02:47:11,560 --> 02:47:15,520
and it's a right of the world.
He says if I turn away my face

2967
02:47:15,520 --> 02:47:17,080
then all things will be
destroyed.

2968
02:47:19,480 --> 02:47:21,920
You know, which goes back to the
Zohar where God doesn't.

2969
02:47:22,400 --> 02:47:25,840
If God decides for some reason,
I don't know if it was ever, you

2970
02:47:25,840 --> 02:47:28,120
know, where I when I was reading
it, it didn't elucidate what the

2971
02:47:28,120 --> 02:47:29,920
reasons were.
But if God does not go visit

2972
02:47:29,920 --> 02:47:31,920
those worlds, they're destroyed.
Yeah.

2973
02:47:32,600 --> 02:47:34,160
Which?
Goes back to Malachi's promise

2974
02:47:34,160 --> 02:47:37,040
to me well.
And and this, this is

2975
02:47:37,040 --> 02:47:41,240
interesting too, in, in the
sense of what we do as a people,

2976
02:47:41,360 --> 02:47:44,840
right?
Because my contention is, is

2977
02:47:44,840 --> 02:47:51,680
that for a long while now,
American, certainly the world

2978
02:47:51,680 --> 02:47:56,360
has tried to throw God out.
You know, whether he doesn't

2979
02:47:56,360 --> 02:48:00,320
visit us of his own accord or we
just say we don't want him here,

2980
02:48:01,920 --> 02:48:04,600
The end, the end result is the
same.

2981
02:48:05,320 --> 02:48:07,480
Is the same no matter what.
Yeah.

2982
02:48:07,480 --> 02:48:10,200
That's very true.
This is kind of fun.

2983
02:48:11,120 --> 02:48:15,760
Second, Enoch 3311 gives a funky
name to Michael, But it's cool

2984
02:48:15,760 --> 02:48:19,640
when you break it down.
He says to Enoch, I will give to

2985
02:48:19,640 --> 02:48:22,200
you, Enoch, my intercessor, the
Arcus.

2986
02:48:22,680 --> 02:48:26,320
Arcus strategy, Michael, for the
handwriting of your father's,

2987
02:48:26,920 --> 02:48:29,760
Adam, Seth, Enos, Kanan,
Mahaliel, and Jared, your

2988
02:48:29,760 --> 02:48:31,920
father.
So he's saying he's going to

2989
02:48:31,920 --> 02:48:34,200
give the writings of all these
holy men into the custody of

2990
02:48:34,200 --> 02:48:38,000
Michael, but he gives them this
weird name, the Arcus strategy.

2991
02:48:38,960 --> 02:48:43,720
As I broke that down, Arch is
obviously chief primary or

2992
02:48:43,720 --> 02:48:49,000
first, but the other words, you
know, strategy is like a general

2993
02:48:49,000 --> 02:48:52,280
or military leader.
Well, that's just fascinating to

2994
02:48:52,280 --> 02:48:56,880
me because, and this is like I
said earlier, like I want to

2995
02:48:56,880 --> 02:49:00,320
write a paper on the
intersection of like Mormon

2996
02:49:00,320 --> 02:49:03,200
fundamentalism, belief in Adam,
God and like Second Temple

2997
02:49:03,200 --> 02:49:06,040
Judaism and Michael being the
intercessor of God.

2998
02:49:06,040 --> 02:49:10,640
Because, OK, what does Joshua
say in the book or about Michael

2999
02:49:10,640 --> 02:49:14,720
or about when they're going to
go take Jericho and level it?

3000
02:49:15,800 --> 02:49:19,640
He sees a man with a an armor
and drawn sword.

3001
02:49:20,160 --> 02:49:23,240
And this man says, take your
shoes off where you're standing

3002
02:49:23,240 --> 02:49:25,560
on the holy ground.
And he worships him.

3003
02:49:25,760 --> 02:49:28,600
And he says, who are you?
And he says, I am captain of the

3004
02:49:28,600 --> 02:49:30,960
Lord's host.
And then Joshua says, the

3005
02:49:30,960 --> 02:49:32,880
captain of the Lord's host is
the Lord.

3006
02:49:33,480 --> 02:49:38,120
Right, right, so and so again,
drawing another parallel to

3007
02:49:38,480 --> 02:49:40,680
Michael right back, captain of
the Lord's host.

3008
02:49:40,920 --> 02:49:43,280
Is the Lord.
That's right.

3009
02:49:43,280 --> 02:49:44,160
There.
Yep.

3010
02:49:44,280 --> 02:49:49,360
Absolutely wow.
Let's see, this is cool.

3011
02:49:49,360 --> 02:49:52,200
Too, this is a this is a very
Christ like teaching, but this

3012
02:49:52,200 --> 02:49:56,840
is in second Enoch 45.
Enoch tells his sons after he's

3013
02:49:57,600 --> 02:50:00,080
after he's ascended to heaven
and come back down and he's

3014
02:50:00,080 --> 02:50:03,640
telling his sons, you know, I'm
I'm going to be gone forever.

3015
02:50:03,640 --> 02:50:06,160
You know, I'm going, I'm going
to dwell up on high right.

3016
02:50:06,480 --> 02:50:10,400
And he says that the Lord
doesn't want sacrifices of

3017
02:50:10,400 --> 02:50:14,480
bread, candles, or the flesh of
beasts, but the sacrifice that

3018
02:50:14,480 --> 02:50:15,920
he wants are the pure hearts of
men.

3019
02:50:16,600 --> 02:50:19,640
Interesting drawing parallels to
that broken heart in contrary.

3020
02:50:19,640 --> 02:50:21,960
Yeah, that Christ.
Talks about in 3rd Nephi, right?

3021
02:50:22,080 --> 02:50:25,440
Yeah.
Back to the books.

3022
02:50:25,440 --> 02:50:27,400
Imagery.
Second Enoch 47.

3023
02:50:28,280 --> 02:50:31,360
Take these heavenly books of
your Father's handwriting and

3024
02:50:31,360 --> 02:50:34,680
read them, for the books are
many, and in them you will learn

3025
02:50:34,680 --> 02:50:37,760
all of the Lord's works, all
that has been from the creation,

3026
02:50:38,200 --> 02:50:40,200
and all that will be till the
end of time.

3027
02:50:41,320 --> 02:50:44,520
Thus I make known unto you My
children, and distribute the

3028
02:50:44,520 --> 02:50:47,920
books to your children into all
your generations and amongst the

3029
02:50:47,920 --> 02:50:49,920
nations who shall have the sense
to fear God.

3030
02:50:50,240 --> 02:50:54,200
Let them receive them, and may
they come to love them more than

3031
02:50:54,200 --> 02:50:57,280
any food or earthly sweets, and
read them and apply themselves

3032
02:50:57,280 --> 02:51:00,880
to them talking.
About scripture I assume?

3033
02:51:01,360 --> 02:51:04,280
Yep.
And 2nd Enoch 52 there's a

3034
02:51:04,280 --> 02:51:07,720
straight up beatitude type
format given that also hearkens

3035
02:51:07,720 --> 02:51:11,200
to the Sermon on the Mount.
Blessed is he who keeps the

3036
02:51:11,200 --> 02:51:14,120
foundations of his father's made
from the beginning.

3037
02:51:14,960 --> 02:51:18,120
Cursed is he who perverts the
decrees of his forefathers.

3038
02:51:18,760 --> 02:51:20,400
Now that's.
Interesting because right now

3039
02:51:20,400 --> 02:51:22,760
I'm listening to a book and I
can't remember who the author

3040
02:51:22,760 --> 02:51:26,480
is, but basically, and it was
called In the language of Adam,

3041
02:51:26,640 --> 02:51:27,400
I'm reading that.
Too.

3042
02:51:27,640 --> 02:51:30,320
Yeah, and it.
Basically makes the case that

3043
02:51:30,320 --> 02:51:33,520
perhaps the Sermon on the Mount
is, temple ordinances is.

3044
02:51:33,520 --> 02:51:35,200
Temple.
Ordinances now I'm not sure how

3045
02:51:35,200 --> 02:51:37,000
much weight I'm willing to put
into it yet.

3046
02:51:37,240 --> 02:51:39,600
I'm a big fan but that OK I
haven't.

3047
02:51:39,600 --> 02:51:41,440
Got all the way through it yet?
I haven't.

3048
02:51:41,440 --> 02:51:44,480
But what's interesting is that
when you go to get to the yay,

3049
02:51:44,480 --> 02:51:48,160
yay, nay, nay part, that's very
temple oriented.

3050
02:51:48,400 --> 02:51:52,280
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
And so that's just one excerpt,

3051
02:51:52,440 --> 02:51:55,960
but yeah, in that chapter and
around it, it's always blessed

3052
02:51:55,960 --> 02:51:57,720
are they who do this?
Blessed are they?

3053
02:51:57,720 --> 02:52:00,360
And Enoch is telling his
children that these are turned

3054
02:52:00,360 --> 02:52:03,400
down from heaven before he goes
back up again and cursed are

3055
02:52:03,400 --> 02:52:06,000
they who do this.
And it's it's very much is the

3056
02:52:06,000 --> 02:52:07,280
Beatitude type format.
Yep.

3057
02:52:07,400 --> 02:52:13,840
Absolutely in second.
Enoch when, when Enoch ascends

3058
02:52:13,840 --> 02:52:18,560
to heavens and is, you know,
when that business is done and

3059
02:52:18,560 --> 02:52:23,240
he's left, you know, Methuselah
builds an altar or a temple at

3060
02:52:23,240 --> 02:52:26,880
the site, right, which I thought
was cool and.

3061
02:52:28,720 --> 02:52:30,960
Then.
Methuselah dresses up as a king

3062
02:52:30,960 --> 02:52:34,400
with beautiful garments and
prays at the altar that they had

3063
02:52:34,400 --> 02:52:38,880
built, and others of his sons
and grandsons form a circle

3064
02:52:38,880 --> 02:52:41,440
around him, and he raises his
hands up to heaven, praying

3065
02:52:41,440 --> 02:52:44,840
where have.
I seen such things, so yeah.

3066
02:52:44,840 --> 02:52:48,040
They built the temple and
they're doing temple stuff at

3067
02:52:48,040 --> 02:52:49,680
the place that eunuch ascended
to heaven.

3068
02:52:50,520 --> 02:52:52,880
And.
This is where it gets into it's

3069
02:52:52,880 --> 02:52:54,280
weird, but it's also kind of
fun.

3070
02:52:55,480 --> 02:52:59,440
Methuselah consecrates his
grandson Nur, who is a brother

3071
02:52:59,440 --> 02:53:03,080
of Noah, a younger brother, as
the priest to to succeed him.

3072
02:53:03,920 --> 02:53:07,200
And.
Nur's wife was old and barren

3073
02:53:07,200 --> 02:53:11,600
and she hasn't had any children.
But then they get a promise from

3074
02:53:11,600 --> 02:53:15,800
the Lord that she'll conceive a
miraculous conception, and it's

3075
02:53:15,800 --> 02:53:18,600
Melchizedek.
Interesting.

3076
02:53:18,760 --> 02:53:21,320
Yeah.
And so who knows whether this

3077
02:53:21,320 --> 02:53:25,120
is, you know, does this predate
Christ or is this like stuff

3078
02:53:25,120 --> 02:53:27,680
like, OK.
For example this.

3079
02:53:27,680 --> 02:53:29,800
Is second Enoch right?
So this is Slavonic Enoch.

3080
02:53:29,800 --> 02:53:32,560
It was discovered in the 7th or
8th century or it's it was

3081
02:53:32,560 --> 02:53:36,400
discovered in some catacombs or
monastery, whatever.

3082
02:53:36,400 --> 02:53:41,080
In in Eastern Christianity,
Eastern Europe it dates to about

3083
02:53:41,080 --> 02:53:42,840
7th or 8th century.
I don't know when it was

3084
02:53:42,840 --> 02:53:47,320
discovered way later than that.
And so they're like, is this

3085
02:53:47,320 --> 02:53:51,160
just spurious or whatever?
But they found that Christians,

3086
02:53:51,520 --> 02:53:54,640
Coptic Christians in Alexandria,
Egypt, had Greek fragments of

3087
02:53:54,640 --> 02:53:56,440
it.
Really.

3088
02:53:56,640 --> 02:53:58,400
Yeah, so it.
Goes back actually, at least to

3089
02:53:58,400 --> 02:54:01,520
1st century.
AD second Enoch.

3090
02:54:01,520 --> 02:54:04,840
Does, but we don't know.
Does it start out as a Christian

3091
02:54:04,840 --> 02:54:08,000
text or does it start out as a
Jewish text that Christians in

3092
02:54:08,000 --> 02:54:10,760
Alexandria then adopted and then
like?

3093
02:54:10,760 --> 02:54:14,960
Do Jews then Co opted back?
Right.

3094
02:54:14,960 --> 02:54:17,800
You know, like.
How much bleeding through?

3095
02:54:18,240 --> 02:54:19,320
Is there?
We don't know.

3096
02:54:19,400 --> 02:54:19,960
Yeah.
And.

3097
02:54:19,960 --> 02:54:23,080
Then that, that that becomes
problematic because you're like,

3098
02:54:23,080 --> 02:54:26,760
OK, because, look, I don't think
anyone just takes it and leaves

3099
02:54:26,760 --> 02:54:29,080
it, right?
If somebody's making notes and

3100
02:54:29,080 --> 02:54:32,600
commentary and if it bleeds back
through that, yeah.

3101
02:54:32,600 --> 02:54:35,360
But Melchizedek being more of a
miraculous conception to a

3102
02:54:35,360 --> 02:54:40,440
priest that that it's a synergy
of John the Baptist in Christ.

3103
02:54:40,520 --> 02:54:42,120
Yep.
Right there and.

3104
02:54:43,720 --> 02:54:45,560
So.
But you get into weird problems.

3105
02:54:45,560 --> 02:54:49,040
OK, now Melchizedek's born
before the flood, and so how

3106
02:54:49,040 --> 02:54:50,640
does he get preserved or
whatever?

3107
02:54:50,640 --> 02:54:52,800
And so Michael the Archangel
actually goes and like

3108
02:54:52,800 --> 02:54:54,360
translates him and brings him to
heaven.

3109
02:54:54,800 --> 02:54:57,600
And then after the flood,
Michael brings Melchizedek back

3110
02:54:57,600 --> 02:55:02,520
down.
OK, in this story, right, the

3111
02:55:02,520 --> 02:55:05,920
Lord sends Michael to retrieve
Melchizedek, preserve him in the

3112
02:55:05,920 --> 02:55:10,920
heavenly Eden, that he may be a
priest of priests forever.

3113
02:55:10,920 --> 02:55:14,400
And I will consecrate him and
will appoint him over the people

3114
02:55:14,440 --> 02:55:17,440
being made greatly holy.
And I will establish another

3115
02:55:17,440 --> 02:55:21,000
race, and Melchizedek shall be
the chief of the priests in that

3116
02:55:21,000 --> 02:55:23,640
family, just as Seth is to me in
this family.

3117
02:55:27,800 --> 02:55:32,560
And so, yeah, Melchizedek was
serving in the temple that

3118
02:55:32,560 --> 02:55:35,880
Methuselah made until the flood
and then gets translated and

3119
02:55:35,880 --> 02:55:43,280
brought back down.
Let's see, we kind of touched on

3120
02:55:43,280 --> 02:55:51,200
that a little bit worried that
in 3rd Enoch we alluded this

3121
02:55:51,200 --> 02:55:53,440
bull, this quote, Rabbi Ishmael
said.

3122
02:55:53,560 --> 02:55:56,880
I asked Metatron and said to
him, Why art thou called by the

3123
02:55:56,880 --> 02:56:00,880
name of thy Creator by 70 names?
Thou art greater than all the

3124
02:56:00,880 --> 02:56:04,480
Princess, higher than all the
angels, beloved, more than all

3125
02:56:04,480 --> 02:56:07,480
the servants, honored, above all
the mighty ones, in king, in

3126
02:56:07,480 --> 02:56:11,560
kingship, greatness and glory.
Why do they call you youth in

3127
02:56:11,560 --> 02:56:14,160
the high heavens?
And it says lad in other places

3128
02:56:14,160 --> 02:56:15,640
too, right?
He.

3129
02:56:15,640 --> 02:56:18,440
Answered and said to me because
I am Enoch the son of Jared.

3130
02:56:19,880 --> 02:56:24,040
So anyways, just Yep, that fits
with Joseph Smith and the lad

3131
02:56:24,080 --> 02:56:28,320
and I'm put a lad, Yeah.
And 3rd Enoch Metatron takes the

3132
02:56:28,320 --> 02:56:30,800
Torah out of one of the heavenly
storehouses and gives it to

3133
02:56:30,800 --> 02:56:32,800
Moses.
I don't have a reference, but

3134
02:56:32,800 --> 02:56:35,440
that isn't that one for sure is
where that comes from.

3135
02:56:37,360 --> 02:56:39,600
That is a super interesting that
they do that that Rabbi.

3136
02:56:39,640 --> 02:56:42,200
So if that's Rabbi Ishmael
saying that that Metatron

3137
02:56:44,240 --> 02:56:48,920
brought out the Torah, it is in
a way circumventing the Moses

3138
02:56:48,920 --> 02:56:54,840
story, but it's at a time where
the Temple's already gone

3139
02:56:55,360 --> 02:57:00,440
anyway, that's it's interesting
to ruminate on Hugh Nibley.

3140
02:57:00,600 --> 02:57:05,120
Maybe we'll end with him.
This is a quote from

3141
02:57:05,840 --> 02:57:09,840
Investments, which I believe is
in Temple and Cosmos.

3142
02:57:10,920 --> 02:57:14,080
Enoch says I was clothed upon
with glory, therefore I could

3143
02:57:14,080 --> 02:57:17,080
stand in the presence of God.
Otherwise he could not.

3144
02:57:17,440 --> 02:57:20,160
It is the garments that gives
confidence in the presence of

3145
02:57:20,160 --> 02:57:22,200
God.
One does not feel too exposed.

3146
02:57:22,640 --> 02:57:25,760
That garment is the garment that
awaits us above, the official

3147
02:57:25,760 --> 02:57:27,920
garment of heaven, the garment
of divinity.

3148
02:57:28,320 --> 02:57:32,280
So as Enoch says, I was clothed
upon with glory, and saw the

3149
02:57:32,280 --> 02:57:35,960
Lord just as Moses saw him face
to face, and the glory of God

3150
02:57:35,960 --> 02:57:38,360
was upon Moses.
Therefore Moses could endure his

3151
02:57:38,360 --> 02:57:41,080
presence.
In second Enoch discovered in

3152
02:57:41,080 --> 02:57:45,920
1892, we read the Lord, spake to
me with his own mouth, take

3153
02:57:45,920 --> 02:57:48,160
Enoch and remove his earthly
garments, and anoint him with

3154
02:57:48,160 --> 02:57:50,520
holy oil, and clothe him in his
garments of glory.

3155
02:57:51,080 --> 02:57:54,200
And I looked at myself, and I
looked like one of the glorious

3156
02:57:54,200 --> 02:57:56,880
ones, being no different from
him in appearance.

3157
02:57:57,680 --> 02:57:59,480
He is.
Qualified now in the manner of

3158
02:57:59,480 --> 02:58:02,840
initiation, he can go back and
join them because he has

3159
02:58:02,840 --> 02:58:04,920
received a particular garment of
glory.

3160
02:58:05,240 --> 02:58:07,920
Wow.
Anyways.

3161
02:58:08,040 --> 02:58:09,960
That's all my notes dude.
There you go.

3162
02:58:10,080 --> 02:58:14,600
That's I've got no notes.
You kidding me?

3163
02:58:14,600 --> 02:58:17,040
I let everybody else do the hard
work and then I just come on

3164
02:58:17,040 --> 02:58:19,440
here and talk junk into a mic.
I just wanted to.

3165
02:58:19,440 --> 02:58:23,080
Hear you're closing marks.
I got a closing question for

3166
02:58:23,080 --> 02:58:23,680
you.
Sure.

3167
02:58:24,920 --> 02:58:26,560
What's the big take away for me,
Nick?

3168
02:58:28,480 --> 02:58:30,400
Well, I think.
It's interesting to tie all that

3169
02:58:30,400 --> 02:58:33,080
we've learned back to the
beginning with the name.

3170
02:58:33,080 --> 02:58:38,480
It means initiated, inaugurated,
dedicated, consecrated.

3171
02:58:40,920 --> 02:58:46,160
And we see, I actually, you
know, I'm seeing more temple

3172
02:58:46,160 --> 02:58:49,840
stuff in it than I was even as I
was compiling it and that.

3173
02:58:50,840 --> 02:58:52,760
The.
That whole theme is, is

3174
02:58:52,760 --> 02:58:58,800
consistent throughout.
And we see in ourselves, we're

3175
02:58:58,800 --> 02:59:01,440
told in the Temple to consider
ourselves as if we were Adam and

3176
02:59:01,440 --> 02:59:05,160
Eve, right?
But in a sense, we're also like

3177
02:59:05,160 --> 02:59:09,320
Rabbi Ishmael the Enoch going
through the same thing, right?

3178
02:59:09,320 --> 02:59:12,120
Hopefully to our exaltation,
right?

3179
02:59:12,720 --> 02:59:18,480
Right, absolutely.
I, I think for me, Enoch is

3180
02:59:18,480 --> 02:59:21,280
expansive in its, well, it's
huge, dude.

3181
02:59:21,280 --> 02:59:26,040
In, in, in its application and
in its meaning, right.

3182
02:59:26,480 --> 02:59:31,360
Because while certainly the
temple stuff is amazing, you

3183
02:59:31,360 --> 02:59:37,720
can't quote that enough when you
start doing what you did and

3184
02:59:37,720 --> 02:59:42,280
taking apart all of this and you
start seeing that Enoch plays a

3185
02:59:42,440 --> 02:59:45,240
far bigger role in the ancient
prophets.

3186
02:59:45,520 --> 02:59:46,800
Yeah, like Samuel.
And abeda.

3187
02:59:46,880 --> 02:59:48,400
Yes, Christ.
Christ.

3188
02:59:50,440 --> 02:59:54,840
And then you see the breath at
which these books cover, right?

3189
02:59:55,200 --> 02:59:58,160
I mean, as we just pointed out,
everything from testifying of

3190
02:59:58,160 --> 03:00:01,920
the Book of Mormon, temple
stuff, dealing with abortion.

3191
03:00:02,120 --> 03:00:05,200
I mean, there there's it's
expansive, a higher priesthood.

3192
03:00:05,200 --> 03:00:07,640
Than the priesthood given to the
children of Israel at the time

3193
03:00:07,640 --> 03:00:10,360
of Moses, yes.
It it's expansive, right?

3194
03:00:10,960 --> 03:00:14,120
And Enoch is fascinating to me
because.

3195
03:00:16,000 --> 03:00:19,440
It.
It's, it's pretty Jewish, right?

3196
03:00:19,440 --> 03:00:23,840
I mean, that's the thing that's
amazing is that it goes even

3197
03:00:23,840 --> 03:00:30,240
before the Hebrew nation.
It is before all of that.

3198
03:00:32,720 --> 03:00:35,920
And I love learning about the
Hebrews, right?

3199
03:00:36,080 --> 03:00:41,640
I I feel like there's a lot
there, but Enoch predates that

3200
03:00:43,160 --> 03:00:49,240
and by doing so provides a lot
of connections clear back to

3201
03:00:49,240 --> 03:00:51,560
Adam, more so than we have in
any other book.

3202
03:00:52,040 --> 03:00:57,120
And coupled with Joseph Smith,
it just paints a picture that is

3203
03:00:59,120 --> 03:01:02,120
hard to deny.
It testifies of Joseph Smith's

3204
03:01:02,120 --> 03:01:05,800
role, testifies of Christ's
role, testifies of the temple.

3205
03:01:06,520 --> 03:01:08,880
You go down the list and it
can't be overstated.

3206
03:01:09,080 --> 03:01:10,560
It's.
I don't want to get too weird

3207
03:01:10,560 --> 03:01:12,440
here, but it's.
It's.

3208
03:01:12,560 --> 03:01:16,200
Something that was pointed out
in a way by a, you know, non

3209
03:01:16,200 --> 03:01:18,600
Mormon scholar that I found
profoundly interesting.

3210
03:01:19,400 --> 03:01:23,760
I don't agree with all that he
said, but he he said how it

3211
03:01:23,760 --> 03:01:27,760
seems that even Joseph Smith
felt maybe a kinship with Enoch

3212
03:01:29,280 --> 03:01:34,560
himself, you know, being called
as a young lad, young boy, he's

3213
03:01:34,920 --> 03:01:38,920
shown heavenly things.
He's being given books.

3214
03:01:39,760 --> 03:01:41,280
That of things.
That have been recorded from the

3215
03:01:41,280 --> 03:01:43,760
father's all the way down, as
well as having his own

3216
03:01:43,760 --> 03:01:51,560
experiences and he, at least in
our circles, he has attained a

3217
03:01:51,560 --> 03:01:55,080
certain form of unification,
just like Enoch did.

3218
03:01:55,400 --> 03:01:59,320
Absolutely.
And and his, his mission is

3219
03:01:59,480 --> 03:02:03,080
similar in a lot of ways, right?
I mean, Joseph wasn't

3220
03:02:03,080 --> 03:02:06,080
necessarily too concerned with
churches as we think of them

3221
03:02:06,080 --> 03:02:10,120
today as structures, right?
He was in the building

3222
03:02:10,120 --> 03:02:13,720
communities.
And if you look at Enoch, that's

3223
03:02:13,720 --> 03:02:17,360
what he did.
And I, I don't think that

3224
03:02:17,360 --> 03:02:21,240
Enoch's importance can be
overstated it, it needs to be

3225
03:02:21,240 --> 03:02:22,960
approached with some caution,
right?

3226
03:02:22,960 --> 03:02:26,560
Like we talked about earlier,
but there's too many fruits to

3227
03:02:26,560 --> 03:02:29,640
just ignore it.
And I think that's, that's

3228
03:02:29,920 --> 03:02:31,760
really what, what we come down
to.

3229
03:02:31,760 --> 03:02:36,080
We do ourselves a disservice as
Mormons when we want to just

3230
03:02:36,080 --> 03:02:38,480
shelve it.
Hugh Nibley was all about that,

3231
03:02:38,480 --> 03:02:39,640
he said.
Why aren't we paying attention

3232
03:02:39,640 --> 03:02:42,520
to more of this Enoch stuff?
You know, because we were

3233
03:02:42,520 --> 03:02:45,960
promised that all these books
would come forth and his whole

3234
03:02:45,960 --> 03:02:49,200
thing was if we don't take
advantage of it, we're going to

3235
03:02:49,200 --> 03:02:51,400
have what we have taken away
from us.

3236
03:02:51,400 --> 03:02:53,040
Absolutely.
Absolutely.

3237
03:02:53,040 --> 03:02:54,560
And we see that.
We see that with the.

3238
03:02:54,560 --> 03:02:57,560
We're living in that.
Absolutely.

3239
03:02:57,560 --> 03:03:01,640
We're living in a point where
the temple liturgy is being

3240
03:03:01,640 --> 03:03:04,320
butchered.
Right, you know the.

3241
03:03:04,320 --> 03:03:07,000
Temple liturgy restored by
Joseph Smith and perpetuated by

3242
03:03:07,000 --> 03:03:09,200
Brigham Young and formalized by
Brigham Young as being

3243
03:03:09,200 --> 03:03:11,240
absolutely butchered and aborted
itself.

3244
03:03:11,400 --> 03:03:16,680
Right.
You know, we're seeing as Nephi

3245
03:03:16,680 --> 03:03:18,840
or Alma.
Alma says that to them that

3246
03:03:18,840 --> 03:03:21,160
harden their hearts against the
truth.

3247
03:03:21,880 --> 03:03:25,760
The portion that was revealed to
them will be taken away.

3248
03:03:26,400 --> 03:03:31,240
Absolutely, dude.
Good stuff as always.

3249
03:03:31,240 --> 03:03:34,920
If anybody wants the link to the
class, they can reach out to me,

3250
03:03:34,960 --> 03:03:38,320
or they can find Michael on
Facebook and reach out for that

3251
03:03:39,040 --> 03:03:40,800
dude.
What's next month?

3252
03:03:43,920 --> 03:03:45,440
Noah.
Nice.

3253
03:03:45,440 --> 03:03:47,040
Noah.
And maybe the Tower of Babel.

3254
03:03:47,040 --> 03:03:47,960
I don't know.
I like it.

3255
03:03:47,960 --> 03:03:49,080
Well, to see.
I like it.

3256
03:03:49,120 --> 03:03:50,840
I'm not that far yet.
That's all right.

3257
03:03:51,000 --> 03:03:52,800
That's all right.
You seem to put these together

3258
03:03:52,800 --> 03:03:56,760
with resounding speed and
accuracy, so thank you.

3259
03:03:57,360 --> 03:04:00,760
But anyway, awesome.
All right, Well, dude, we'll see

3260
03:04:00,760 --> 03:04:02,880
you next time.
Bye everybody.

3261
03:04:33,560 --> 03:04:36,360
You're listening to the Mormon
Renegade podcast.