Episode #145: Genesis Lesson 2 W/Michael Ness

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So this is Part 2 of the series
Michael Ness and I are doing

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about the Old Testament.
Think of it kind of like an

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institute class for the Old
Testament only Mormon

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fundamentalist style.
Now if you want to be able to

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see those classes live, just
reach out to me and I'll get you

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the link for that.
They are on the 1st and 2nd

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Tuesdays of every month.
So today Michael and I picked

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shortly up after where we left
off with Adam and Eve being

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expelled out of the Garden, and
follow it all the way through to

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the murder of Abel by Cain.
Now we dig through not only the

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scriptures of accepted Canon,
but also into several books of

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the Apocrypha to give a fuller
account and greater context and

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understanding.
Along the way we draw several

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interesting parallels to things
that are happening in the world

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today, as well as a lot of
clarification and food for

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thought that will deepen your
testimony of the restored

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gospel.
So sit back and get ready to

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have your mind blown on this
episode of the Mormon Renegade

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Podcast.
So a few weeks back, I told you

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about a new online merch store I
was putting together and that I

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would let you know as soon as
that was up and running.

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Well, after a few weeks of
working on designs and testing

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it out personally, we're ready
to launch.

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So if you go to
mormonrenegade.com and click on

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the Renegade supply button in
the top right of the landing

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page or click the link in this
episode show notes, you'll see

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that we have 16 items right now
that you can choose from.

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We have shirts, hats, bags,
cups, and water bottles all with

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the Mormon Renegade logo, as
well as a couple other designs

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that I think you'll find really
funny and maybe even one where I

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take a slight shot at BYU, but
you should definitely go check

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that out.
Now this is just the beginning.

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In the coming weeks, more
designs and styles will be

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available for purchase.
Now all the proceeds I get from

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this are going to go right back
into the podcast.

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So head on over to
mormonrenegade.com and press the

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Renegade supply button or click
the link in this episode show

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notes and get yours today.
The you're listening to the

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00:02:24,000 --> 00:02:30,360
Mormon Renegade podcast?
Dude, that first class went

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well.
I was there for both of them.

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The first one went.
Well, you did.

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I was glad to see you there.
Yeah, they, they went well, I

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was boy.
And they're, you know, OK.

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I'm just going to call it like I
see it here.

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While I certainly love love the
exuberance of youth, those old

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timers, man, they know some
stuff.

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Oh, they were.
They were.

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They were happy to participate.
They were.

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They know they know some stuff,
right?

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And I always, I always enjoy
hearing them talk, right,

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Because Joe Rogan's got a great
bit right where he talks about

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like the founding fathers.
And he says, look, if Thomas

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Jefferson came back, you you'd
have to wonder, would he be

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upset?
Because he's like, you guys

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haven't wrote any new stuff.
Like we wrote that thing with a

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feather, right.
And then and then he goes on to

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say, really, when you think
about it, if a person lives to

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about 100, that's like two
people ago.

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Yeah.
Right.

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And so for for some of those
folks, I mean they're not that

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far removed from pioneer era.
No, we're, we're two or three

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people ago from pioneer
Mormonism, right?

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Yeah, and that's crazy to think
about when you put it.

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In in that context I know.
For example, I recently this

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year I went to visit with some
barlows in in Salt Lake that

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were, they're sons of the that
original generation, you know,

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they're second generation
fundamentalists.

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Yeah, you know, that's, that's
crazy.

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Yeah, yeah, especially for
fundamentalists because, I mean,

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fundamentalists have kids pretty
late in life too, right?

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So I mean, it's, it's not that
far removed, right.

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We tend to look at at that era
as so long ago, but

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realistically.
No, it was to to see I, I hope I

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don't offend anyone by dropping
the name, but to see Uncle I am,

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you know, I am this Barlow
junior.

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It was like looking at Joseph
Muster's day, you know, classy

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man.
You know, that's what I was

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looking at.
Absolutely.

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And it was.
It was awesome.

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Absolutely, absolutely.
So this one is is lesson #2 in

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the fundamental fundamentalist
institute.

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Renegade Institute.
Renegade.

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No, it is.
It is.

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It is.
I don't want to take credit for

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your.
Safety fundamentalist if that

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umbrella is too broad, I you
know, advocacy of pioneer

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Doctrine Institute.
I don't.

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There you go.
I like that, yeah.

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You know, that's the
restoration.

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You know, it's a restoration
institute, you know, because in

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my opinion, that's the, you
know, these are the things that

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would have been taught in the
rest in the early days of the

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restoration or that it's not
available in the church.

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No.
Unfortunately unless you have

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like grandparents who remember
some stuff you know and will

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tell you but.
Right, well, I see you came

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loaded for bear with Temple in
the Cosmos by Nibbly.

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Yeah, I don't know if we're
going to use that, but it's

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there to if in case I need it,
dude.

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That's a great book, I can't
recommend it enough in my heart

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of hearts.
I don't know if this is

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accurate, but in my heart of
hearts I firmly hope and believe

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that that Nibbly was like a non
practicing fundamentalist right.

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So that's interesting.
I don't want to burst any

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bubbles, but from what the the
amount that I've read from him

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definitely doesn't seem like he
was a fan of splinter groups.

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But he appreciated the attempts
at Living United Order,

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especially because he's big on
United Order and he was really

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sympathetic to the attitude of
Living United Order.

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And he was, he expressed in one
of the one of the lectures I

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read like yesterday or day
before.

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He was disappointed that it
wasn't working out right.

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Yeah.
But it at the same time didn't

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seem to advocate for going and
joining up with them either.

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Right, right.
But he's unapologetically a fan

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of Brigham.
Yes, yeah.

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The the other thing that that I
loved about Nibley was he could

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criticize the church and it's
like he was untouchable.

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He was the one untouchable guy
that he could offer critiques

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the the black robes of the
priesthood was.

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The false black robes of the
priesthood was the university.

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The university?
Yep.

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Which dude?
If he could see it now, he'd

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he'd freak out.
He'd overturned some tables.

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Yeah.
And, and I think if he were

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alive today or growing up in
this generation, he would

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probably come to some different
conclusions.

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Sure now, but I don't know that
for.

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Sure, sure.
Yeah, Absolutely.

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All right, dude.
So where are we picking up?

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So last time we covered the the
pre earth life, the council of

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the gods, the creation and the
fall.

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And so we're just picking up
right after that and basically

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diving into the text of the book
of Moses, you know, as you know,

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which starts out with some on
some mountain, doesn't say

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where, where Moses has his
encounter with Satan and, and

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then with the Lord or with the
Lord, then Satan and with the

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Lord again.
And he asks all the terrible

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questions, as he nibbly puts it,
you know, why?

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Why are these things you know,
And he gets the answers like man

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is nothing, which is something
I've never before supposed.

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And tell me why you've made all
these things.

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And the Lord says you can't
handle that.

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But I'll show you regarding this
Earth.

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And then he proceeds to
concerning this Earth and starts

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with Adam and Eve.
And so we're that's where we're

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going to.
Start immediately.

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I just had thoughts with Jack
Nicholson and a few good men

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like you just can't handle the
truth.

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Yeah, Yep, absolutely.
But it's but the experiences he

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did that Moses did have, you
know, to see all the particles

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of the earth, to see all the
different elements that the

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earth is made of, to see all the
different kinds of people that

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were on the earth And to then
also have explained to him, it's

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like this everywhere on all the
I'm not going to show you these

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other worlds, but it is like
this everywhere and numerous

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worlds have passed.
You have been created and passed

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out of existence and countless
are are currently in their state

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of probation.
And my works are endless.

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And this answers all, you know,
Hugh Nibley likes to say how

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this was a constant
philosophical question and has

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been throughout all time with
humanity.

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And you've had a lot of back and
forth amongst the Greeks in

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especially in the Roman Catholic
Church, early Christianity,

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before the Catholic Church,
they'd oscillate, He says the

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Egyptians are pretty solid on
it.

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They never really oscillated
that they always believed

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actually that kind of, you know,
this stuff, you know, and their

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theology proves it.
But it's, yeah, the the early

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Church fathers, you know, the,
all the early, early church

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fathers in the Christian era
believed in this.

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But then around the early 2nd
century, they started, once

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their, once their clergy started
getting doctorate degrees, they

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started to backtrack on that
because the Greek philosophy at

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the time was stuff like, well,
if, if God is perfect, then he

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made a perfect world.
And why would you have another

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one?
Right.

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Yeah.
No, it's funny.

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The more things change, the more
they stay the same.

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When people started earning
doctorate degrees is when things

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got all screwed up, right?
And that seems to not be too far

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off now.
I mean, look, I'm sure that

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there are great historians who
have doctorate degrees, but

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there I got to wonder at times
what we're doing by sending our

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kids stuff to that place.
Oh, dude, no.

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00:10:11,480 --> 00:10:15,760
But but Joseph Smith is
providing a beautiful answer to

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the philosophical conundrum of
the day, which was heavily

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divided at that time.
You know, it was between those

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two ideas.
And the Christian world at the

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time said, no, there can't be
more worlds.

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Now, there's some exceptions to
that, but the majority was, you

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know, that, yeah, that there's
just this earth.

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It's all.
And the science of the day too,

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not just the religion.
The science of the day was

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hadn't recently taken up the
idea of if you can't observe it,

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you can't test it.
God can't be put in a

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laboratory.
Therefore it's pointless for us

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00:10:45,400 --> 00:10:47,040
to speculate that there's other
worlds.

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00:10:47,040 --> 00:10:49,120
Yeah, we can see the moon.
We can see the solar system.

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But, you know, we don't really
know what the rest of these

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pinpoints in the sky are at
night.

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00:10:53,520 --> 00:10:56,280
We don't know.
Right, well, and, and we have to

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look at it from Moses point of
view on this right, because he

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00:11:00,200 --> 00:11:02,800
has his mind like it's mind
blowing to us, right.

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00:11:02,800 --> 00:11:05,400
Like I remember I did an episode
with Ken Peterson, right

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00:11:05,600 --> 00:11:09,120
background Christmas where we
talked about Joseph Smith and,

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00:11:09,120 --> 00:11:12,600
and then got into like the
cosmos and, and Egyptian

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00:11:12,600 --> 00:11:16,600
cosmology and Mormon cosmology
and started breaking down what

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an eternity means.
And I mean, just mind blowing

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stuff, right?
And, and for Moses though, I

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mean, it blew our minds, right?
It blew my mind, right?

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00:11:25,760 --> 00:11:31,400
And I have I, I'd imagine I'd
have just from a, a academic

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00:11:31,400 --> 00:11:34,520
point of view, my resources are
just so much more vast than what

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00:11:34,520 --> 00:11:36,320
Moses would have been up to that
point.

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00:11:36,400 --> 00:11:39,520
Right.
We know about, you know, we have

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00:11:39,520 --> 00:11:42,760
high-powered telescopes.
We understand different cultures

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00:11:42,760 --> 00:11:45,280
in the world.
His mind's first blown probably

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when it's like, Oh yeah.
And by the way, Moses, there's

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this other land over here that's
going to be inhabited someday.

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00:11:50,800 --> 00:11:53,480
And he's like, I didn't know.
I thought this all that there

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was.
Sure, right.

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00:11:54,960 --> 00:11:59,480
And so, like, his mind must have
been blown dramatically because

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00:11:59,480 --> 00:12:03,520
he saw way more than we did.
And his conception of the world

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was probably way smaller before
that.

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00:12:07,080 --> 00:12:10,240
Oh, absolutely, 100% agree.
We're not going to be in the

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cosmology for this lesson, but
unfortunately, but we're going

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to probably come back to that.
The next one with Enoch.

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OK, that's all really important.
But yeah, we're dealing with

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Adam and Eve and Cain and Abel
today.

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OK, so off the bat, you know, we
talked about Adam a lot last

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time, you know, addressing the
Adam God doctrine and in

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conjunction with what's in the
Scriptures and all that.

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And so under the veil, you know,
forgetting who he is.

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And, and there's actually a lot
of fun literature I saw on this

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in the Apocrypha and stuff,
which talked about him being

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like under a veil and they
didn't remember what we'll touch

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00:12:50,880 --> 00:12:54,520
on that maybe later too.
But so the first thing though is

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Adam and Eve are commanded to
make sacrifices and to teach

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their children.
Teach their children what?

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The Gospel, right?
That's another thing that's

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missing from the Bible that the
sectarian Christians did not.

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No, the Adam had the gospel,
which is interesting because

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Islam was teaching that from
the, you know, the 6th to 7th

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century.
Early on they say Adam was the

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first prophet.
You know, but but Christianity

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00:13:17,560 --> 00:13:21,320
didn't have that idea.
And Mormonism in my estimation.

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I I could be wrong here.
I don't want to speak for

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everybody, but I think Mormonism
is the only one that makes that

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00:13:25,920 --> 00:13:28,920
assertation even.
Right modernly, yes, although

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00:13:29,240 --> 00:13:32,240
based off of the early Christian
texts you and I read and

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00:13:32,240 --> 00:13:34,920
discussed and were discussed in
the lessons right there were

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00:13:34,920 --> 00:13:40,800
definitely I have to I have to
say I I feel pretty safe in

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saying that the early Christians
viewed Adam as the archetype for

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00:13:44,520 --> 00:13:46,640
a king and a priest Sure very
strongly.

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00:13:46,640 --> 00:13:49,800
Sure, I but that was lost.
I yeah, I was talking modern day

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septarianism, right?
And and so, yeah, absolutely.

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So Adam and Eve his wife called
upon the name of the Lord, and

258
00:14:00,680 --> 00:14:03,480
they heard the voice of the Lord
from the way toward the Garden

259
00:14:03,480 --> 00:14:06,000
of Eden speaking unto them.
And they saw him not, for they

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00:14:06,000 --> 00:14:08,520
were shut out from his presence.
And he gave them commandments,

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that they should worship the
Lord their God, and offer the

262
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first things of their flocks for
an offering unto the Lord.

263
00:14:13,440 --> 00:14:15,400
And Adam was obedient unto the
commandments of the Lord.

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00:14:15,400 --> 00:14:17,800
And after many days an Angel of
the Lord appeared unto Adam,

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00:14:18,000 --> 00:14:21,240
saying, Why dost thou offer
sacrifices unto the Lord?

266
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And Adam said unto him, I know
not save the Lord commanded me.

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00:14:25,200 --> 00:14:29,600
And the Angel spake saying this
is this thing is a similar to of

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00:14:29,600 --> 00:14:32,000
the sacrifice of the only
begotten of the Father, which is

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00:14:32,000 --> 00:14:34,320
full of grace and truth.
So that puts the gospel at the

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00:14:34,320 --> 00:14:39,280
forefront of what Moses is being
seen from the very beginning and

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00:14:39,280 --> 00:14:43,360
immediately after that, because
he's teaching his children that

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00:14:43,360 --> 00:14:46,120
now that's the that's the gospel
as far as has been revealed.

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00:14:46,240 --> 00:14:48,600
You know those elements, the
basic principles cry, you know,

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00:14:48,600 --> 00:14:50,640
there will be a Messiah that's
there.

275
00:14:51,000 --> 00:14:54,560
But then the text says, Satan
comes among the children of Adam

276
00:14:54,560 --> 00:14:57,480
and Eve, And Adam blessed the
name of God, and they made all

277
00:14:57,480 --> 00:14:59,280
things known unto their sons and
their daughters.

278
00:14:59,280 --> 00:15:02,640
And Satan came among them,
saying, I am also a son of God.

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00:15:02,760 --> 00:15:05,400
And he commanded them, saying,
Believe it not, and they

280
00:15:05,400 --> 00:15:07,720
believed it not, And they loved
Satan more than God.

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00:15:08,080 --> 00:15:11,000
And man began began from that
time forth to be carnal,

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00:15:11,000 --> 00:15:14,880
sensual, and devilish.
Now there's a couple things that

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00:15:14,880 --> 00:15:19,000
that pop out to me here.
First on on a very surface re

284
00:15:19,320 --> 00:15:23,160
level reading I one of the
reasons I I believe there's so

285
00:15:23,160 --> 00:15:26,680
much for us to draw out of the
Genesis account and the Moses

286
00:15:26,800 --> 00:15:34,520
account of of all of this is
because we hold who Adam is,

287
00:15:34,520 --> 00:15:36,680
right?
We believe that Adam slash

288
00:15:36,680 --> 00:15:40,760
Michael is God.
He sets patterns for us, right.

289
00:15:41,080 --> 00:15:45,000
One of the accounts I love is
while Adam's hiding from his

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00:15:45,000 --> 00:15:50,640
God, it's not Adam who's seeking
his God out, it's his God

291
00:15:50,640 --> 00:15:53,760
seeking him out.
I think it's a clever ploy by

292
00:15:53,760 --> 00:15:57,600
the adversary to tell us that
once we've screwed up, you've

293
00:15:57,640 --> 00:15:59,000
lost.
Sure, right.

294
00:15:59,000 --> 00:15:59,760
You've lost.
It is.

295
00:15:59,840 --> 00:16:03,680
I remember when I first came
into Mormonism and you know, you

296
00:16:03,680 --> 00:16:06,480
have to have your little meeting
with the Bishop, right?

297
00:16:07,000 --> 00:16:10,680
And I remember I walked in and
when I looked at the Bishop, I

298
00:16:10,680 --> 00:16:13,400
was like, well, you got the rest
of the week because that's going

299
00:16:13,400 --> 00:16:17,920
to take a while, right?
But for so long I looked at

300
00:16:18,120 --> 00:16:21,440
various churches and I was like,
Nah, I wouldn't, I wouldn't go

301
00:16:21,440 --> 00:16:23,720
there anyway.
I mean, I'm just not worthy to

302
00:16:23,720 --> 00:16:27,120
be there, right?
And it was only Mormons who

303
00:16:27,120 --> 00:16:30,680
really taught the atonement from
a point of view at which I felt

304
00:16:30,680 --> 00:16:33,920
comfortable, right, Approaching
God at that point.

305
00:16:34,480 --> 00:16:36,000
Looking back, that was a clever
ploy.

306
00:16:36,000 --> 00:16:38,080
That was the same ploy that was
used on Adam, right?

307
00:16:38,080 --> 00:16:42,920
You're naked hide, right?
But in the midst of that, God

308
00:16:43,120 --> 00:16:45,880
never gives up.
He just keeps seeking for Adam,

309
00:16:45,880 --> 00:16:47,560
where are you?
Where are you?

310
00:16:47,880 --> 00:16:51,040
So I find that beautiful.
But in this instance, right on,

311
00:16:51,040 --> 00:16:56,080
on a surface level, the thing
that jumps out to me is Adam's

312
00:16:56,080 --> 00:16:57,720
given the command.
He doesn't know why.

313
00:16:59,440 --> 00:17:02,440
And when the Angel finally comes
and says, what are you doing?

314
00:17:02,440 --> 00:17:04,560
He's like.
What I was told.

315
00:17:04,680 --> 00:17:07,200
Right.
And then light's given, then the

316
00:17:07,200 --> 00:17:09,640
knowledge is given behind it.
Also a good lesson.

317
00:17:09,720 --> 00:17:12,319
Yeah.
And I think so often we we miss

318
00:17:12,319 --> 00:17:15,680
that, that sometimes we have to
act on things that aren't

319
00:17:15,680 --> 00:17:19,960
necessarily intuitive, right?
They seem somewhat

320
00:17:19,960 --> 00:17:22,000
counterintuitive.
And I think as we approach these

321
00:17:22,000 --> 00:17:24,839
last days, I think that's going
to become more and more vital.

322
00:17:24,839 --> 00:17:29,680
Are we willing to do the thing
that the Spirit tells us to do

323
00:17:30,200 --> 00:17:33,240
in weird moments?
You know, are we willing to say

324
00:17:33,240 --> 00:17:35,240
Nope, stop, turn around and go
back?

325
00:17:35,240 --> 00:17:36,480
Yeah, and let the reason come
later.

326
00:17:36,520 --> 00:17:39,480
And let the reason come later.
The other thing that jumps out

327
00:17:39,480 --> 00:17:42,920
at me is something that says
there in the scripture where it

328
00:17:42,920 --> 00:17:45,120
says and they love Satan more
than God.

329
00:17:45,880 --> 00:17:50,880
And I'm wondering is that God is
an Adam and Michael, Adam slash

330
00:17:50,880 --> 00:17:53,600
Michael, right?
Because at some level, who's

331
00:17:53,600 --> 00:17:55,440
teaching who?
It is at a certain level because

332
00:17:55,440 --> 00:17:57,160
they're just believing what
their father is teaching them.

333
00:17:57,160 --> 00:17:58,800
Yes, exactly.
Right.

334
00:17:58,800 --> 00:18:04,320
And so it, it's an interesting
phrase when when it's teamed up,

335
00:18:04,320 --> 00:18:08,120
especially when you realize that
Adam's children don't have

336
00:18:08,120 --> 00:18:12,760
communion with Adam's God,
right?

337
00:18:12,760 --> 00:18:16,200
Adam's father their their
communion is with their father.

338
00:18:16,320 --> 00:18:19,480
Yeah, obviously, because if
they, if they had, they would be

339
00:18:19,480 --> 00:18:22,640
able to see like Moses and I can
see God's glory.

340
00:18:22,640 --> 00:18:25,040
Where is your glory?
But because they didn't have the

341
00:18:25,080 --> 00:18:29,160
the ability to contrast those
two opposites, they just saw

342
00:18:29,160 --> 00:18:31,280
what looked like an Angel of
light saying, don't believe

343
00:18:31,280 --> 00:18:33,720
Adam, right?
He's he's crazy.

344
00:18:33,720 --> 00:18:35,640
He's offering sacrifices and
that's pointless.

345
00:18:35,640 --> 00:18:38,240
So right, whatever the rhetoric
was, but don't believe him.

346
00:18:38,240 --> 00:18:41,120
I'm a son of God, you know.
And so obviously this looks more

347
00:18:41,120 --> 00:18:43,920
important than what their
earthly father, who happens to

348
00:18:43,920 --> 00:18:47,920
be result of man in a mortal
condition, is telling them.

349
00:18:48,040 --> 00:18:49,720
Yeah, absolutely.
Yep.

350
00:18:49,800 --> 00:18:51,320
No, just a couple things that
jumped at it.

351
00:18:51,320 --> 00:18:53,560
No, I love, I love the first
point especially.

352
00:18:54,640 --> 00:18:57,760
And that is, you know, you and I
were mentioning earlier, you

353
00:18:57,760 --> 00:19:02,320
know, a concern for youth.
That's the biggest thing that I

354
00:19:02,320 --> 00:19:05,240
felt as a youth that that youth
feel is I'm just not worthy.

355
00:19:05,240 --> 00:19:08,480
I mess up too much.
Why even try to be a Mormon?

356
00:19:09,040 --> 00:19:10,480
Why even try?
I'm not good enough.

357
00:19:11,000 --> 00:19:16,560
And to to read that lesson and
get that moral, like you pointed

358
00:19:16,560 --> 00:19:19,680
out that God is always, you
know, it's like that painting,

359
00:19:19,680 --> 00:19:21,600
right?
Was it Michelangelo The One?

360
00:19:21,600 --> 00:19:25,000
We're we're, we're.
And God's fingers fully

361
00:19:25,240 --> 00:19:27,080
outstretched?
Exactly.

362
00:19:27,080 --> 00:19:30,240
But Michael or Adams in this,
you know, is kind of bent, like

363
00:19:30,240 --> 00:19:33,120
he's kind of not fully
committing to the touch, you

364
00:19:33,600 --> 00:19:37,440
know, but God is fully extending
his, his, you know, his.

365
00:19:37,520 --> 00:19:41,840
You know, as we'll see in later
lessons, I'm sure, I mean it, it

366
00:19:41,840 --> 00:19:44,800
seems to be a pattern that it's
God that's chasing after us a

367
00:19:44,800 --> 00:19:48,880
little bit at times, right?
If we go to the mount where,

368
00:19:48,880 --> 00:19:51,640
where Moses receives the law,
he's telling everybody,

369
00:19:51,640 --> 00:19:53,480
everybody come up.
We're, we're all going to meet

370
00:19:53,480 --> 00:19:55,640
the Lord, right?
I, this is what he wants.

371
00:19:55,920 --> 00:19:58,000
He wants to meet all of us.
Let's go.

372
00:19:58,360 --> 00:20:02,240
And they're like, no, we're
going to stay right here you go,

373
00:20:02,240 --> 00:20:04,600
Moses, if you would like.
And then Moses ended up taking

374
00:20:04,600 --> 00:20:09,000
70 elders of Israel.
It's, it's an interesting

375
00:20:09,000 --> 00:20:11,840
parallel, right, Because so
often people will say, have you

376
00:20:11,840 --> 00:20:14,880
found Jesus, right?
Have you found the Lord?

377
00:20:15,320 --> 00:20:17,040
Now most of those people seem
to.

378
00:20:17,400 --> 00:20:19,840
That makes me think Jesus is
hanging out in prisons a lot.

379
00:20:20,360 --> 00:20:27,920
But my, I, I think the correct
answer would be, you know, he's

380
00:20:28,440 --> 00:20:31,480
have you recognized him, right?
Have I, because I, I think he's

381
00:20:31,480 --> 00:20:34,560
always there right?
I, I think he's always begging,

382
00:20:34,560 --> 00:20:37,080
forced to turn back.
We just got to take that first

383
00:20:37,080 --> 00:20:42,040
step towards.
No repentance in, I think in

384
00:20:42,120 --> 00:20:47,320
English that comes from a Latin
root which has penance in it,

385
00:20:47,320 --> 00:20:50,280
which means punishment too.
And so there's like a subliminal

386
00:20:51,000 --> 00:20:55,200
connotation there of repentance
equals punishment for your sins,

387
00:20:56,040 --> 00:20:59,400
which is actually not what
repentance is.

388
00:20:59,480 --> 00:21:02,800
And when you but when you, when
it's, For example, if it says

389
00:21:02,800 --> 00:21:05,840
repent in the Old Testament,
they're not speaking Latin.

390
00:21:06,360 --> 00:21:07,840
Right.
It's written in Hebrew.

391
00:21:07,960 --> 00:21:10,520
Yep.
Well, what does the word Hebrew

392
00:21:10,680 --> 00:21:13,480
in Hebrew mean?
And it's it's Shub or shub.

393
00:21:14,960 --> 00:21:19,640
And it simply means to turn, to
turn away from what you're

394
00:21:19,640 --> 00:21:21,680
doing, to turn to God and
recognize him.

395
00:21:21,680 --> 00:21:27,400
And that's no connotation of
penalty or punishment or penance

396
00:21:27,400 --> 00:21:29,000
for your sins, but to simply
turn.

397
00:21:30,760 --> 00:21:33,680
There was another one I heard
and I wish I could remember

398
00:21:33,680 --> 00:21:35,280
where this was.
So everyone has to take this

399
00:21:35,280 --> 00:21:37,200
with a grain of salt because I
haven't been able to find it

400
00:21:37,200 --> 00:21:39,520
since.
But there was something, I

401
00:21:39,520 --> 00:21:43,520
believe it was in the the Greek.
I could be wrong, but

402
00:21:43,520 --> 00:21:48,000
essentially the word sin simply
translates as a miss, right?

403
00:21:48,400 --> 00:21:51,520
So if you were to take aim at a
target, you missed the mark

404
00:21:51,600 --> 00:21:54,280
essentially, right?
That puts it in a different

405
00:21:54,280 --> 00:21:57,800
light as well, right?
I mean, in some ways it's almost

406
00:21:57,800 --> 00:22:00,040
like when you're learning to
play the piano or something,

407
00:22:00,040 --> 00:22:01,520
right?
You wouldn't just stop if.

408
00:22:01,520 --> 00:22:03,920
You hit a bunch of wrong notes.
You hit a bunch of wrong notes.

409
00:22:04,000 --> 00:22:06,240
You just kept playing right.
You just said, oh, what did I do

410
00:22:06,240 --> 00:22:08,520
wrong there?
OK, now we're back at it, right?

411
00:22:09,680 --> 00:22:11,960
Sometimes I think we fail to
live the gospel because we're

412
00:22:11,960 --> 00:22:14,160
just not tenacious enough.
Yeah, we're not practicing the

413
00:22:14,160 --> 00:22:14,920
gospel.
Right.

414
00:22:14,920 --> 00:22:15,720
We're not.
We're not.

415
00:22:15,720 --> 00:22:16,720
Practice.
You're going to hit a lot of

416
00:22:16,720 --> 00:22:18,680
wrong notes, maybe, but keep
practicing.

417
00:22:18,680 --> 00:22:21,680
Keep playing the gospel anyways.
Yep, go back, watch the game

418
00:22:21,680 --> 00:22:24,200
film, figure out what you did
wrong and make adjustments.

419
00:22:24,200 --> 00:22:25,560
I mean, that's, that's all there
is.

420
00:22:25,760 --> 00:22:27,960
I love it, but it's interesting
to note.

421
00:22:28,000 --> 00:22:33,520
So Adam and Eve have probably a
significant crop of kids, and

422
00:22:33,680 --> 00:22:36,800
this is before Cain and Abel and
apostasy has already said it,

423
00:22:37,480 --> 00:22:38,600
right?
So important to note.

424
00:22:38,960 --> 00:22:45,920
Also something the Bible doesn't
have there after this point

425
00:22:45,920 --> 00:22:49,280
where there's an apostasy Cain
is born and it says Adam knew

426
00:22:49,280 --> 00:22:53,000
his wife Eve and she conceived
and bare Cain and I have gotten

427
00:22:53,000 --> 00:22:56,080
a man from the Lord wherefore he
may not reject his words because

428
00:22:56,080 --> 00:22:59,640
obviously his siblings had his
older siblings but behold Cain

429
00:22:59,640 --> 00:23:03,280
hearkened not saying who is the
Lord that I should know him.

430
00:23:04,120 --> 00:23:09,640
Now Cain is interesting the word
the name means to acquire or to

431
00:23:10,160 --> 00:23:19,120
fashion, which is word play
because with the other words

432
00:23:19,120 --> 00:23:23,760
that she uses like I have, I
have I have acquired a man of

433
00:23:23,760 --> 00:23:27,160
the Lord, you know, is a play on
the name Cain.

434
00:23:27,160 --> 00:23:30,520
You know, because his name means
to acquire or I or I have AI

435
00:23:30,520 --> 00:23:33,760
have created a man with the help
of the Lord, you know, because

436
00:23:33,760 --> 00:23:38,040
that's what it means to create.
And it got the connotation of to

437
00:23:38,040 --> 00:23:40,920
be like a Craftsman or an
artificer, a metal worker,

438
00:23:41,120 --> 00:23:46,400
because of the to acquire or to
to craft or to fashion aspect of

439
00:23:46,400 --> 00:23:49,760
it.
And it says, And she again

440
00:23:49,760 --> 00:23:51,720
conceived and bare his brother
Abel.

441
00:23:51,720 --> 00:23:53,760
And Abel hearkened with the unto
the voice of the Lord.

442
00:23:53,800 --> 00:23:56,160
And Abel was a keeper of sheep,
but Cain was a tiller of the

443
00:23:56,160 --> 00:23:59,120
ground.
And Cain loved Satan more than

444
00:23:59,120 --> 00:24:01,320
God.
And Kate and Satan commanded

445
00:24:01,320 --> 00:24:04,000
him, saying, Make an offering
unto the Lord.

446
00:24:04,800 --> 00:24:06,920
And in process of time it came
to pass.

447
00:24:06,920 --> 00:24:10,080
The Cain brought of the fruit of
the ground, and offering unto

448
00:24:10,080 --> 00:24:12,840
the Lord.
And Abel he also brought the

449
00:24:12,840 --> 00:24:15,160
first thing of his flock, and
the fat thereof.

450
00:24:15,200 --> 00:24:18,160
And the Lord had respect unto
Abel and his and his offering,

451
00:24:18,360 --> 00:24:20,800
But unto Cain and his offering
he had not respect.

452
00:24:21,320 --> 00:24:24,240
Now Satan knew this, and it
pleased him, etcetera.

453
00:24:25,680 --> 00:24:29,760
Do you know why Cain's offering
was not accepted Well?

454
00:24:30,280 --> 00:24:34,080
It's my understanding that the
Lord told him to essentially

455
00:24:34,080 --> 00:24:36,640
give a specified offering and he
didn't, right?

456
00:24:36,640 --> 00:24:38,440
He tried to short circuit the
program.

457
00:24:38,920 --> 00:24:42,680
He tried to to give an offering
that was less than what the Lord

458
00:24:42,680 --> 00:24:44,160
required.
Right.

459
00:24:44,200 --> 00:24:45,600
And yeah, and that's all
another.

460
00:24:45,920 --> 00:24:49,560
So what did, what did the Lord
tell Adam to do?

461
00:24:49,880 --> 00:24:51,760
Offer the first slings of your
blocks.

462
00:24:51,920 --> 00:24:56,120
And if I'm not mistaken, didn't,
didn't didn't Cain just bring

463
00:24:56,120 --> 00:24:58,520
like fruit and.
The the first fruit of the

464
00:24:58,520 --> 00:25:00,680
ground and so the pattern was
set.

465
00:25:00,960 --> 00:25:02,880
Go ahead.
No, it's better than that.

466
00:25:03,240 --> 00:25:05,440
But so a pattern of an ordinance
was set.

467
00:25:05,960 --> 00:25:09,640
The ordinance was changed by
Cain, right by doing that.

468
00:25:10,280 --> 00:25:17,080
And so it's not it cannot be a
type of the savior if it's not

469
00:25:17,080 --> 00:25:20,160
in conformity with the pattern
that was set because the

470
00:25:20,160 --> 00:25:22,200
question is what to Adam, why do
you do this?

471
00:25:22,640 --> 00:25:25,640
I don't know the answer.
It's in similar to them, right.

472
00:25:26,280 --> 00:25:29,720
And so the scriptures in the
sectarian world don't have any

473
00:25:29,720 --> 00:25:31,200
of that information that that
was.

474
00:25:31,800 --> 00:25:35,280
Although I feel it's kind of
weird to me that no theologian

475
00:25:36,840 --> 00:25:39,400
inferred that at all because
obviously if you're looking at

476
00:25:39,400 --> 00:25:42,920
types and shadows offering the,
you know, the sacrifice of the

477
00:25:42,920 --> 00:25:46,440
flocks, you know, it does say
that Adam offered sacrifice, or

478
00:25:46,440 --> 00:25:49,960
at least Abel does, you know,
but it just surprises me that no

479
00:25:49,960 --> 00:25:51,720
Christian or Jewish theologian
sought.

480
00:25:51,720 --> 00:25:58,640
Oh well, this is in in pattern
of the future Messiah like to me

481
00:25:58,640 --> 00:26:01,280
that you could you could
probably infer that with with

482
00:26:01,280 --> 00:26:04,800
the spirit, you know, with other
types and things like Abraham

483
00:26:04,800 --> 00:26:07,840
offering up Isaac being
assimilated of the sun.

484
00:26:08,280 --> 00:26:10,240
The similitudes are all
throughout, you know.

485
00:26:10,240 --> 00:26:13,360
But no, that is dark as far as
any other commentary.

486
00:26:14,240 --> 00:26:16,400
Yeah, You know, there's another
interesting point here.

487
00:26:16,400 --> 00:26:19,720
So every morning before I get
out of my car to go to the gym,

488
00:26:19,800 --> 00:26:22,000
I just watch my phone for a
minute to try to get the

489
00:26:22,000 --> 00:26:23,760
motivation.
So it's like a lot of Jocko

490
00:26:23,760 --> 00:26:27,440
Willnick and David Goggins and,
you know, guys trying to, you

491
00:26:27,440 --> 00:26:30,040
know, trying to get amped up to
go do this and put myself

492
00:26:30,040 --> 00:26:34,480
through the paces.
And this particular one, it was

493
00:26:34,480 --> 00:26:37,480
a Jordan Peterson video, and I
just started listening to it.

494
00:26:37,720 --> 00:26:39,200
And just this week it was
talking.

495
00:26:39,200 --> 00:26:44,880
He was talking about this and he
had an interesting take on this.

496
00:26:46,680 --> 00:26:51,800
If we were to go just from a
pure psychological standpoint on

497
00:26:51,800 --> 00:26:55,720
this, there are some interesting
things, right, that I think

498
00:26:55,720 --> 00:26:59,000
parallel today.
So often I hear of people

499
00:26:59,000 --> 00:27:01,440
having, you know, why do I even
try?

500
00:27:01,440 --> 00:27:05,040
It doesn't matter.
And they just kind of mail in

501
00:27:05,040 --> 00:27:11,280
half of a effort, right?
Effort, I think is very similar

502
00:27:11,280 --> 00:27:14,640
to to sacrifice, right?
If you're putting effort into

503
00:27:14,640 --> 00:27:18,600
something, you're you're
sacrificing something else for

504
00:27:18,600 --> 00:27:21,360
something that's better, that
maybe isn't better, but maybe

505
00:27:21,360 --> 00:27:24,040
more vital at the moment, right?
You're sacrificing time with

506
00:27:24,040 --> 00:27:28,280
your family, being here with me.
I'm sacrificing time with my

507
00:27:28,280 --> 00:27:32,400
family by doing this.
But out of that sacrifice comes

508
00:27:32,400 --> 00:27:34,480
something better.
Oh, I shouldn't say better, but

509
00:27:34,480 --> 00:27:38,480
something vital and vital
important right in in this

510
00:27:38,480 --> 00:27:41,520
instance, I could you could
almost as especially as we go

511
00:27:41,520 --> 00:27:43,680
into this a little deeper.
I think what we'll see is even

512
00:27:43,680 --> 00:27:47,880
Cain exhibit some of those
traits of why do I try right?

513
00:27:48,560 --> 00:27:52,080
I I gave the I gave what you
know, a sacrifice.

514
00:27:52,080 --> 00:27:53,320
It's not good enough.
Who?

515
00:27:53,440 --> 00:27:55,000
Is the Lord that I should know
Him?

516
00:27:55,160 --> 00:27:57,840
Right, exactly.
And so there's there's some

517
00:27:57,840 --> 00:28:01,520
interesting parallels here that
I think can be can be drawn out

518
00:28:01,520 --> 00:28:04,400
from from the story here.
Yeah, I think so too.

519
00:28:06,040 --> 00:28:08,320
I almost decided to major in
psychology.

520
00:28:08,320 --> 00:28:10,960
So I love that to this day, I
love, I love psychology,

521
00:28:11,080 --> 00:28:14,480
especially the analytical or
depth psychology of Carl Jung

522
00:28:14,560 --> 00:28:15,760
and stuff.
Yeah.

523
00:28:17,480 --> 00:28:21,480
So there's some commentary that
I, I thought was profound by one

524
00:28:21,480 --> 00:28:25,400
of the elders in the Church of
the last generation, Elder Neil

525
00:28:25,400 --> 00:28:26,800
A Maxwell.
You're probably familiar with

526
00:28:26,800 --> 00:28:29,720
Maxwell, you know.
He was still alive when I first

527
00:28:29,720 --> 00:28:30,520
joined the.
Right.

528
00:28:30,520 --> 00:28:33,800
Yeah, and he was the the
presence intellectual of the

529
00:28:33,800 --> 00:28:35,640
general authorities.
At that time, if I'm not

530
00:28:35,640 --> 00:28:39,120
mistaken, he was instrumental in
starting farms, right?

531
00:28:39,120 --> 00:28:39,840
Yeah.
Big time big.

532
00:28:40,440 --> 00:28:44,760
Donator to that, yeah, he said,
and I love this.

533
00:28:44,760 --> 00:28:48,400
This is gospel.
This is pure gospel, he says.

534
00:28:48,480 --> 00:28:52,360
Real personal sacrifice never
was placing an animal on the

535
00:28:52,360 --> 00:28:54,720
altar.
Instead, it is a willingness to

536
00:28:54,720 --> 00:28:57,360
put the animal in us upon the
altar and letting it be

537
00:28:57,360 --> 00:28:59,960
consumed.
Such is the law of sacrifice of

538
00:28:59,960 --> 00:29:01,560
a broken heart and a contrary
spirit.

539
00:29:02,200 --> 00:29:06,560
That's the end of that quote.
And I have here, and you shall

540
00:29:06,560 --> 00:29:08,840
OfferUp unto me no more the
shedding of blood.

541
00:29:08,920 --> 00:29:11,560
Yeah, your sacrifices and your
burnt offering shall be done

542
00:29:11,560 --> 00:29:13,040
away.
For I will accept none of your

543
00:29:13,040 --> 00:29:14,680
sacrifices and your burnt
offerings.

544
00:29:14,680 --> 00:29:16,320
This is the Savior speaking in
3rd right?

545
00:29:16,320 --> 00:29:18,160
Right.
And you shall offer for a

546
00:29:18,160 --> 00:29:22,560
sacrifice unto me, a broken
heart and a contrite spirit.

547
00:29:22,560 --> 00:29:25,080
And whoso cometh unto me with a
broken heart and a contrite

548
00:29:25,080 --> 00:29:28,560
spirit, him will I baptize with
fire and with the Holy Ghost.

549
00:29:29,120 --> 00:29:33,320
Elder Maxwell continued, saying,
As you submit your will to gods,

550
00:29:34,080 --> 00:29:36,960
you are giving him the only
thing you can actually give him

551
00:29:36,960 --> 00:29:41,200
that is really yours to give.
Compare that to every man

552
00:29:41,280 --> 00:29:44,640
walketh in his own way and after
the image of his own God, whose

553
00:29:44,640 --> 00:29:46,320
image is the likeness of the
world.

554
00:29:46,440 --> 00:29:49,440
And he's quoting a section one
of the Doctrine Covenants, verse

555
00:29:49,440 --> 00:29:52,280
16 there.
Isn't that profound?

556
00:29:52,400 --> 00:29:55,640
It is profound.
Something else I think ties in

557
00:29:55,640 --> 00:29:59,200
with us if we get into the
Mosaic law a lot, there's a lot

558
00:29:59,200 --> 00:30:02,400
of things that can get you
killed, right that that

559
00:30:02,560 --> 00:30:08,080
prescribe the death penalty.
I think in a weird way that's

560
00:30:08,080 --> 00:30:11,280
still kind of enforced.
And let me explain this as we

561
00:30:11,280 --> 00:30:16,640
repent, make changes, row
develop, we're never the same

562
00:30:16,640 --> 00:30:19,520
person after that.
Sure, we're never the same

563
00:30:19,520 --> 00:30:22,400
person after that.
When you experience godly

564
00:30:22,400 --> 00:30:25,200
sorrow, there is there is a
change that takes place.

565
00:30:26,880 --> 00:30:32,160
And in some ways that former you
does die, right?

566
00:30:32,320 --> 00:30:38,720
You have put him on the altar.
He has perished for for those

567
00:30:38,720 --> 00:30:42,960
things.
Sometimes I think things that we

568
00:30:42,960 --> 00:30:45,040
think, oh, well, that's just
done away with.

569
00:30:45,200 --> 00:30:48,960
Well, no, not necessarily.
It's just we didn't have a real

570
00:30:48,960 --> 00:30:50,560
good understanding of it in the
first.

571
00:30:50,560 --> 00:30:54,000
Place if you don't take the time
to think on the symbols, you,

572
00:30:54,160 --> 00:30:56,640
you miss things like this.
You know, I have here noted that

573
00:30:56,640 --> 00:31:00,240
the symbol of sacrifice, and
this is obviously this ordinance

574
00:31:00,240 --> 00:31:02,800
of sacrifice predated the law of
Moses, but it continues with

575
00:31:02,800 --> 00:31:05,440
Moses, you know, those forms of
sacrifices.

576
00:31:05,440 --> 00:31:08,520
The point was to point you
towards Christ just the same.

577
00:31:09,080 --> 00:31:12,120
The sacrifice inspired people or
should have inspired people to

578
00:31:12,120 --> 00:31:15,040
develop the attributes of God by
rejecting the attributes of the

579
00:31:15,040 --> 00:31:17,520
natural man and taking upon
themselves the attributes of

580
00:31:17,520 --> 00:31:21,240
Christ, which that took your
place on that altar because

581
00:31:21,240 --> 00:31:23,840
Christ also took our place
symbolically.

582
00:31:24,800 --> 00:31:26,120
And, you know.
Yeah.

583
00:31:26,120 --> 00:31:28,920
Because if the penalty for death
is sin and we're offering up

584
00:31:28,920 --> 00:31:32,520
ourselves symbolically, but
instead of literally, you know,

585
00:31:32,520 --> 00:31:35,440
paying the price, Christ
literally and symbolically

586
00:31:35,440 --> 00:31:37,040
placed himself on the same
altar.

587
00:31:37,080 --> 00:31:40,880
Yeah, yeah, on our behalf.
There, there are so many

588
00:31:40,880 --> 00:31:43,760
interesting parallels if we'll
just stop and think about this

589
00:31:43,760 --> 00:31:47,360
stuff for a minute.
So often a lot of this gets,

590
00:31:47,960 --> 00:31:52,600
gets swept away because quite
frankly, and I get it right, I,

591
00:31:52,600 --> 00:31:54,400
I understand where it comes
from.

592
00:31:54,400 --> 00:31:58,240
I never quite understood how you
got to the answer you did, but I

593
00:31:58,240 --> 00:31:59,960
understand the the Old Testament
man.

594
00:31:59,960 --> 00:32:02,120
If you were going to make an
authentic Old Testament movie at

595
00:32:02,120 --> 00:32:04,840
Bad Boys rated R, sure, right,
Without a doubt.

596
00:32:04,920 --> 00:32:06,760
I mean, blood gore at the least,
yeah.

597
00:32:06,760 --> 00:32:10,160
Blood, gore, sex, intrigue, I
mean, you name it, it's in

598
00:32:10,160 --> 00:32:15,160
there.
And but that doesn't mean it's

599
00:32:15,160 --> 00:32:18,280
not true, right?
And this is something else that

600
00:32:18,280 --> 00:32:20,080
I've been thinking about what a
lot lately.

601
00:32:20,840 --> 00:32:24,920
A lot of times we focus so much
on what the Spirit gives us, the

602
00:32:24,920 --> 00:32:27,000
warm fuzzies.
Does he always?

603
00:32:27,240 --> 00:32:29,400
That's a good question.
I don't think he does.

604
00:32:29,400 --> 00:32:32,680
I I could agree with that.
I, I think sometimes the spirit

605
00:32:32,680 --> 00:32:37,200
can make you feel like crud if,
if he's trying to enact you to

606
00:32:37,200 --> 00:32:42,800
look and make a change, right.
And so just like working out

607
00:32:42,800 --> 00:32:44,240
sucks.
I hate it.

608
00:32:44,800 --> 00:32:47,440
I don't do it because I like it
and I go five days a week,

609
00:32:47,440 --> 00:32:48,440
right?
I hate it.

610
00:32:48,560 --> 00:32:51,280
It's the hardest, best part of
my day.

611
00:32:51,280 --> 00:32:54,080
Sometimes, yeah, it's necessary,
right?

612
00:32:54,080 --> 00:32:57,240
And sometimes reading things
that challenge us and things

613
00:32:57,240 --> 00:33:02,920
that we may not particularly
have an affinity toward good for

614
00:33:02,920 --> 00:33:04,280
it and doesn't.
It doesn't mean it's not

615
00:33:04,280 --> 00:33:07,360
worthwhile or by believe it.
I completely agree with that.

616
00:33:08,040 --> 00:33:10,840
Joseph Smith's commentary on
Cain's sacrifice was the

617
00:33:10,840 --> 00:33:13,360
following.
By faith in this atonement or

618
00:33:13,360 --> 00:33:16,400
plan of redemption, Abel offered
to God a sacrifice that was

619
00:33:16,400 --> 00:33:18,400
accepted, which was the first
thing of the flock.

620
00:33:18,800 --> 00:33:20,360
So Joseph Smith caught on to
this right.

621
00:33:20,640 --> 00:33:23,400
Obviously Cain offered the fruit
of the ground and was not

622
00:33:23,400 --> 00:33:25,640
accepted because he could not do
it in faith.

623
00:33:26,040 --> 00:33:29,600
He could have no faith or could
not exercise faith contrary to

624
00:33:29,600 --> 00:33:32,880
the plan of heaven.
It must be shedding of the blood

625
00:33:32,880 --> 00:33:35,640
of the only begotten to atone
for man, for this was the plan

626
00:33:35,640 --> 00:33:38,080
of redemption, and without the
shedding of blood there was no

627
00:33:38,080 --> 00:33:40,760
remission.
And as the sacrifice was

628
00:33:40,760 --> 00:33:44,040
instituted for a type by which
man was to discern the great

629
00:33:44,040 --> 00:33:47,800
sacrifice which God had prepared
to offer a sacrifice contrary to

630
00:33:47,800 --> 00:33:50,640
that, no faith could be
exercised, because redemption

631
00:33:50,640 --> 00:33:53,720
was not purchased in that way,
nor the power of atonement

632
00:33:53,720 --> 00:33:57,280
instituted after that order.
Consequently, King could have no

633
00:33:57,280 --> 00:33:59,680
faith and whatsoever is not of
faith.

634
00:33:59,880 --> 00:34:04,960
Is sin.
Whatever is not of faith is sin.

635
00:34:05,040 --> 00:34:06,840
Or missing the mark as you put
it, yeah.

636
00:34:07,000 --> 00:34:14,000
Yeah, yeah.
Who heads deep but going into

637
00:34:14,000 --> 00:34:19,320
the psychology now OK what what
it's so interesting to me.

638
00:34:20,360 --> 00:34:24,600
You know King's psychology here
and who is the Lord that I

639
00:34:24,600 --> 00:34:27,280
should know him but he's having
communion with Satan now and we

640
00:34:27,280 --> 00:34:29,679
know that Satan's been coming
around the children of Adam

641
00:34:30,679 --> 00:34:34,679
Holden dialogue but Satan says
make an offering under the Lord.

642
00:34:35,600 --> 00:34:39,679
Why did he do this?
Why did the Lord ask him to make

643
00:34:39,679 --> 00:34:42,159
an offer?
Why did Satan ask Cain make an

644
00:34:42,159 --> 00:34:44,239
offering?
Oh, well, that's, that's, that's

645
00:34:44,280 --> 00:34:46,199
easy, right?
What was the whole, what was

646
00:34:46,520 --> 00:34:51,679
what was Satan's big or
Lucifer's big push when he we

647
00:34:51,679 --> 00:34:53,239
were having that original
counsel?

648
00:34:54,280 --> 00:34:56,400
I'll say law.
But the glory.

649
00:34:57,240 --> 00:34:59,480
I want it.
I want it right, Right.

650
00:35:01,000 --> 00:35:04,080
And Satan still desires that
right.

651
00:35:04,520 --> 00:35:07,720
The terms of the war have not
changed, right?

652
00:35:07,800 --> 00:35:11,120
The, the, the question at hand
still hasn't changed.

653
00:35:11,400 --> 00:35:14,680
It's still the same question and
it's still his same goal, right?

654
00:35:15,240 --> 00:35:18,720
There's a reason that evil
people, and quite frankly, I'm

655
00:35:18,720 --> 00:35:22,160
going to make some pretty strong
generalizations here.

656
00:35:22,840 --> 00:35:27,000
By and large, evil people want
you to beg them for their evil,

657
00:35:27,360 --> 00:35:29,960
right?
If we look at what Hitler did,

658
00:35:30,600 --> 00:35:33,480
he doesn't get the power by
simply strong arming people.

659
00:35:33,480 --> 00:35:36,560
No dictator ever gets in simply
by strong arming.

660
00:35:36,960 --> 00:35:39,200
Strong arming comes in after
they have power.

661
00:35:40,040 --> 00:35:42,840
Before that though, the people
have to cry out for it.

662
00:35:43,000 --> 00:35:49,040
In Hitler's case, he he came in
a time when the Bimar Republic

663
00:35:49,400 --> 00:35:53,280
had crumbled.
Hyperinflation had set in and he

664
00:35:53,280 --> 00:36:00,360
makes the same promise as Jesus.
He says follow me and I will

665
00:36:00,360 --> 00:36:04,440
feed you and you will be safe.
Yep, right.

666
00:36:05,120 --> 00:36:09,760
One made by the Messiah leads to
eternal life and exaltation.

667
00:36:10,040 --> 00:36:13,360
The other that Hitler offered
led to the gas chambers, sure,

668
00:36:13,360 --> 00:36:17,680
but nonetheless, he loved it
when they cried out for it.

669
00:36:17,680 --> 00:36:20,400
Right.
If we look at Mark's, if we look

670
00:36:20,480 --> 00:36:23,160
at well, I can't really count
Mark 'cause he never got to a

671
00:36:23,160 --> 00:36:25,480
position of power.
But if we look at when in, we

672
00:36:25,480 --> 00:36:31,520
look at now.
If we look at, if we look at the

673
00:36:31,520 --> 00:36:38,200
Hitler, Mussolini, all of them,
they all exhilarate at being

674
00:36:38,920 --> 00:36:43,000
begged for the evil that they
have to give and they want

675
00:36:43,000 --> 00:36:47,040
people to cry out for it.
I don't think Satan's changed,

676
00:36:47,040 --> 00:36:48,640
and he obviously didn't change
here.

677
00:36:49,680 --> 00:36:55,080
He's begging to have Cain
petition him, beg him for the

678
00:36:55,080 --> 00:36:58,120
evil he has to offer them.
So I don't disagree with that,

679
00:36:58,120 --> 00:37:01,720
but he does say, Make an
offering unto the Lord, right?

680
00:37:01,880 --> 00:37:04,600
Right.
Not unto me, unto the Lord.

681
00:37:06,360 --> 00:37:09,560
But see, I think he's describing
to himself that title, right?

682
00:37:09,560 --> 00:37:12,920
He wants that glory.
I don't think it's simply

683
00:37:12,920 --> 00:37:15,520
deception, right?
I think deception is a part of

684
00:37:15,520 --> 00:37:18,200
the game.
But I think it's more than that.

685
00:37:18,200 --> 00:37:23,840
I think he wants it so badly
that he basically says, I'm your

686
00:37:23,840 --> 00:37:25,760
God now, I'll give you what you
want.

687
00:37:25,760 --> 00:37:27,640
I'm your God.
I think it gets there, but I

688
00:37:27,640 --> 00:37:31,720
think at this point, this is my
opinion, that this is the

689
00:37:31,720 --> 00:37:34,000
manipulation, OK?
It goes something like this.

690
00:37:34,000 --> 00:37:37,320
This is something I wrote up
just to, you know, to portray

691
00:37:37,320 --> 00:37:42,000
this.
You know, it's the I can, this

692
00:37:42,000 --> 00:37:45,240
is the imaginary dialogue going
on in my head, OK, of Satan

693
00:37:45,240 --> 00:37:47,800
talking to you.
Surely God will accept your

694
00:37:47,800 --> 00:37:50,200
sacrifice if he loves you as
much as he does your brother

695
00:37:50,200 --> 00:37:52,320
Abel.
It doesn't matter if you don't

696
00:37:52,320 --> 00:37:56,080
offer a sacrifice the same way
he does after a pattern set by

697
00:37:56,080 --> 00:37:58,840
your father Adam, which was
given by the Angel for you.

698
00:37:58,840 --> 00:38:01,360
That's not what's important.
Your feelings is being seen as

699
00:38:01,360 --> 00:38:03,480
equal with Abel are just as
important.

700
00:38:03,480 --> 00:38:06,320
So go and make your sacrifice
and prove that God loves you

701
00:38:06,360 --> 00:38:10,280
just the same.
And so it's an appeal to

702
00:38:10,280 --> 00:38:14,160
emotional equality.
Yeah, that sounds familiar.

703
00:38:14,160 --> 00:38:15,360
Yeah.
It's the God is love of

704
00:38:15,360 --> 00:38:18,160
sectarian Christianity, right?
You know, unequivocally, God

705
00:38:18,160 --> 00:38:19,640
will just accept you because God
is love.

706
00:38:20,120 --> 00:38:24,560
But Cain is now trapped by the
rhetoric because Satan knows God

707
00:38:24,560 --> 00:38:27,600
can't accept a sacrifice or an
ordinance that's not in

708
00:38:27,600 --> 00:38:29,880
conformity to the pattern which
has been revealed.

709
00:38:30,880 --> 00:38:33,800
So.
So it's a trap entrapment.

710
00:38:33,880 --> 00:38:36,320
So, OK, that's exactly what I
was going to say.

711
00:38:36,320 --> 00:38:38,960
So so your opinion is he kind of
sets up a trap for him?

712
00:38:38,960 --> 00:38:40,960
Yeah, I could get behind that.
Right.

713
00:38:40,960 --> 00:38:44,280
And it gets him on Satan's side
because the fallout was, Oh my

714
00:38:44,480 --> 00:38:47,120
gosh, God doesn't love me as
much as he loves Abel.

715
00:38:47,560 --> 00:38:51,600
Right.
He doesn't respect me, you know,

716
00:38:51,800 --> 00:38:57,080
and my career, you know, right?
What I can offer because I, I

717
00:38:57,080 --> 00:38:58,800
till the ground.
I'm a farmer, right?

718
00:38:58,920 --> 00:39:00,960
You know I don't, I don't, I'm
not, I'm not a shepherd.

719
00:39:01,200 --> 00:39:03,560
You know when it would have been
just as easy for him to

720
00:39:03,560 --> 00:39:05,880
purchase?
I was afraid you couldn't go to

721
00:39:05,880 --> 00:39:08,680
your brother and be like, bro, I
got this bushel or whatever, a

722
00:39:08,680 --> 00:39:10,280
couple bushes or whatever you
got.

723
00:39:10,720 --> 00:39:12,080
Yeah, exactly.
He could have.

724
00:39:12,280 --> 00:39:14,240
He could.
Have done that, right?

725
00:39:14,320 --> 00:39:18,440
There's there's something else
here at work, right, because it

726
00:39:18,440 --> 00:39:21,480
would have been too easy to get
the get the lamb right again.

727
00:39:21,480 --> 00:39:24,280
I think Satan's playing on his
on his pride.

728
00:39:24,320 --> 00:39:25,320
Right.
Like what?

729
00:39:25,320 --> 00:39:28,520
Why should you have?
What makes able stuff more

730
00:39:28,520 --> 00:39:30,760
important than yours?
You're both feeding people.

731
00:39:30,960 --> 00:39:34,840
I mean, exactly it it, but it's
not the prescribed way.

732
00:39:35,160 --> 00:39:38,920
Now, let's let's put this in the
modern day vernacular.

733
00:39:39,160 --> 00:39:42,320
Love is love, Michael.
What makes that person's?

734
00:39:42,480 --> 00:39:44,840
It's the same argument, right?
It is no, and that's exactly

735
00:39:44,840 --> 00:39:46,920
what I'm pointing out.
It is, you know, and it gets

736
00:39:46,920 --> 00:39:50,400
into the, the watered down.
We see this in Mormonism a lot

737
00:39:50,400 --> 00:39:53,400
lately with the reef, the the
wannabe reforms, the polygamy

738
00:39:53,400 --> 00:39:56,840
deniers.
And how can God institute a a, a

739
00:39:56,840 --> 00:39:59,040
doctrine and a law of polygamy
when it hurts someone's

740
00:39:59,040 --> 00:40:00,280
feelings?
Yeah.

741
00:40:00,520 --> 00:40:03,400
You know, woman or men, I wanna
say it can hurt men's feelings

742
00:40:03,400 --> 00:40:05,680
too, by the way.
Yep, I've seen that.

743
00:40:06,120 --> 00:40:07,880
But you know that doesn't get
talked about.

744
00:40:08,080 --> 00:40:12,520
No, but you know, OK, God wants
you to rise above those feelings

745
00:40:12,520 --> 00:40:14,640
of insecurity that the devil
gives you anyways.

746
00:40:14,880 --> 00:40:18,240
And it's not about those
feelings, you know, and God

747
00:40:18,240 --> 00:40:20,960
doesn't institute something that
isn't for your benefit in the

748
00:40:20,960 --> 00:40:24,440
long run, that something more
vital through sacrifice, right?

749
00:40:24,760 --> 00:40:28,040
Or yeah.
And so doctrine of Christ kind

750
00:40:28,040 --> 00:40:29,320
of people was what I'm alluding
at.

751
00:40:29,360 --> 00:40:34,440
You know, they, they're so
offended by any element of, of

752
00:40:34,440 --> 00:40:36,960
teaching that was brought in by
Brigham Young, whatever it is,

753
00:40:36,960 --> 00:40:40,760
because that sounds offensive on
its face to their feelings.

754
00:40:41,000 --> 00:40:43,720
Yeah, that's exactly because.
God is love, and that's the way

755
00:40:43,720 --> 00:40:45,360
that they're wanting to take it,
essentially.

756
00:40:45,720 --> 00:40:48,720
Absolutely.
Although, and this is

757
00:40:48,720 --> 00:40:54,920
supposition going forward, if
Cain is the first son to be born

758
00:40:54,920 --> 00:40:57,880
into the family of Adam after
the first crop of kids have

759
00:40:58,000 --> 00:41:01,440
already apostatized, that puts
him in a prime position to be

760
00:41:01,440 --> 00:41:02,440
the heir.
Yeah.

761
00:41:03,240 --> 00:41:04,480
The patriarchal heir of the
priest.

762
00:41:04,480 --> 00:41:07,080
Absolutely.
So I think this is part of

763
00:41:07,080 --> 00:41:11,320
what's going on too.
And so that like it is it

764
00:41:11,320 --> 00:41:18,560
possible that the the offering
was also being observed by Adam

765
00:41:18,560 --> 00:41:21,480
and Eve to know which of these
sons are going to be there?

766
00:41:22,080 --> 00:41:25,520
That's possible, yeah.
Which which which that you know,

767
00:41:25,680 --> 00:41:28,160
which sacrifices.
But they both have priesthood

768
00:41:28,160 --> 00:41:31,680
because you can't offer, you
can't offer the sacrifice as an

769
00:41:31,680 --> 00:41:34,280
ordinance without holding the
priesthood, you know?

770
00:41:34,640 --> 00:41:37,360
And so to me, there's a priest
to the element, and there's

771
00:41:37,480 --> 00:41:39,600
obviously the question of
succession in line.

772
00:41:39,600 --> 00:41:42,920
Eventually, who gets the keys?
Well, and that would hold, hold.

773
00:41:43,080 --> 00:41:46,200
Yeah, that would that would make
the stakes even higher.

774
00:41:46,200 --> 00:41:50,800
It is higher, it is higher, but
the Lord didn't accept his

775
00:41:50,800 --> 00:41:52,520
offering and Abel was chosen
right?

776
00:41:52,520 --> 00:41:56,000
And Cain was told because now
he's holding dialogue with the

777
00:41:56,000 --> 00:41:58,520
Lord, seeing him face to face,
otherwise he couldn't be

778
00:41:58,520 --> 00:42:00,880
perditioned.
But he said, Cain is told by the

779
00:42:00,880 --> 00:42:05,040
Lord that he was or could become
perdition, which means that he

780
00:42:05,040 --> 00:42:09,640
had knowledge of God, and he was
told to reform, and he'd be

781
00:42:09,640 --> 00:42:13,960
accepted if if he did.
Well, he says, I will deliver

782
00:42:13,960 --> 00:42:17,520
thee up, and it shall be unto
thee according to his desire,

783
00:42:17,520 --> 00:42:20,000
Satan's desire, and thou shall
rule over him.

784
00:42:20,440 --> 00:42:23,280
For from this time forth thou
shall be the father of his lies.

785
00:42:23,280 --> 00:42:26,440
Thou shall be called perdition,
for that was also before the

786
00:42:26,440 --> 00:42:28,360
world.
And it shall be said in time to

787
00:42:28,360 --> 00:42:31,520
come that these abominations
were had from Cain, for he

788
00:42:31,520 --> 00:42:33,960
rejected the greater counsel
which was had from God.

789
00:42:33,960 --> 00:42:36,840
And this is a cursing which I
put upon the Except thou repent,

790
00:42:37,800 --> 00:42:43,000
anything stick out to you there.
Well, the the thing that that

791
00:42:43,000 --> 00:42:47,560
the Lord the Lord seems to be
saying, if you repent, just come

792
00:42:47,560 --> 00:42:49,720
back, right?
I'll accept it.

793
00:42:50,440 --> 00:42:53,200
All you got to do is just follow
what I'm telling you to do,

794
00:42:53,280 --> 00:42:56,320
right?
He's it's interesting to me that

795
00:42:56,320 --> 00:43:01,480
even in this moment, the Lord is
still trying to, to reach out to

796
00:43:02,680 --> 00:43:04,000
King.
Yeah.

797
00:43:04,480 --> 00:43:06,400
And still trying to get him to
come back.

798
00:43:06,880 --> 00:43:09,360
Right, absolutely he is, and
that's definitely a part of

799
00:43:09,360 --> 00:43:11,760
this.
Although interesting note in the

800
00:43:11,760 --> 00:43:15,080
passage, which is possibly
something people Passover

801
00:43:15,080 --> 00:43:17,120
without reading into it so much.
Maybe fundamentalists are

802
00:43:17,120 --> 00:43:19,920
different than the average LDS
church on this topic, but the

803
00:43:19,920 --> 00:43:23,560
thou shalt rule over him.
Cain shall rule over Satan.

804
00:43:23,720 --> 00:43:25,000
That's an interesting turn of
phrase.

805
00:43:25,000 --> 00:43:27,240
Not he shall rule over you,
which is, you know, that's in

806
00:43:27,320 --> 00:43:29,960
the temple, you know, over
anyone who rejects your

807
00:43:29,960 --> 00:43:33,120
covenants, these covenants.
But OK, interesting.

808
00:43:33,120 --> 00:43:35,560
What did Joseph Smith have to
say about how to answer that?

809
00:43:35,560 --> 00:43:39,640
He says all beings who have
bodies have power over those who

810
00:43:39,640 --> 00:43:41,800
do not.
When spirits have come into this

811
00:43:41,800 --> 00:43:44,960
world and received tabernacles,
then died, and again have risen,

812
00:43:45,240 --> 00:43:47,760
they will have an ascendancy
over the spirits who have

813
00:43:47,760 --> 00:43:50,760
received no bodies, or not kept
their first estate like the

814
00:43:50,760 --> 00:43:54,200
devil.
Yeah, yeah, No, absolutely.

815
00:43:54,560 --> 00:43:57,520
I remember hearing that when I
first became a Mormon.

816
00:43:58,280 --> 00:44:03,800
The the other thing again that
jumps out at me is that lack of

817
00:44:03,800 --> 00:44:06,560
body, that that's a big thing,
right?

818
00:44:08,600 --> 00:44:14,600
And given that knowledge,
accounts like what we have of

819
00:44:14,600 --> 00:44:17,520
Jesus with the man who was
possessed by a legion of him,

820
00:44:17,960 --> 00:44:19,640
sure, right?
All of a sudden you start

821
00:44:19,640 --> 00:44:22,520
understanding why that's so
coveted, right?

822
00:44:22,720 --> 00:44:26,880
Even even if it's falsified.
So theoretically, Kane's in the

823
00:44:26,880 --> 00:44:30,920
birthright position.
What is the birthright by

824
00:44:30,920 --> 00:44:32,880
definition?
Anciently?

825
00:44:33,240 --> 00:44:37,640
Anciently well in terms of of
the gospel conversation, he'd be

826
00:44:37,640 --> 00:44:39,880
the one that would preside over
the family, right.

827
00:44:39,880 --> 00:44:44,520
But and then going on, I would
stand to guess that he's got a

828
00:44:44,520 --> 00:44:47,640
large inheritance coming his.
Way the inheritance, which is

829
00:44:47,760 --> 00:44:50,160
historically was a double
portion of the rest of your

830
00:44:50,160 --> 00:44:55,120
siblings, which was to be used
to govern and dispense on behalf

831
00:44:56,040 --> 00:44:58,520
of the rest of the family.
I'm putting you I'm giving you

832
00:44:58,560 --> 00:45:01,120
extra so you can like Joseph in
Egypt.

833
00:45:01,120 --> 00:45:04,400
What was he calling his whole
calling his whole life?

834
00:45:04,400 --> 00:45:07,960
The purpose was to provide for
the temporal welfare of his

835
00:45:08,280 --> 00:45:11,560
older brothers, the whole House
of Israel, you know, and he does

836
00:45:11,560 --> 00:45:16,280
that in Egypt by by being the
magistrate and cultivating all

837
00:45:16,280 --> 00:45:17,920
the crops and saving them and
all that.

838
00:45:18,280 --> 00:45:21,440
You know, you know, he was, he
wasn't given a literal

839
00:45:21,440 --> 00:45:23,560
inheritance from his father
because they were separated, but

840
00:45:23,560 --> 00:45:25,560
he still maintained that
position and did the work.

841
00:45:25,960 --> 00:45:30,760
But the idea is here, right?
Not only is the spiritually a

842
00:45:30,760 --> 00:45:34,960
spiritual position, but it's a
temporal position as well, of

843
00:45:35,600 --> 00:45:39,200
which is connected to you need
to take care of your family.

844
00:45:39,200 --> 00:45:42,640
But what was Cain's attitude?
Am I my brother's keeper?

845
00:45:42,680 --> 00:45:45,520
Yeah.
So he's also completely

846
00:45:46,360 --> 00:45:49,800
psychologically, personally in a
different mindset than even

847
00:45:49,800 --> 00:45:52,400
being worthy for that.
Yeah, and that's that's really

848
00:45:52,960 --> 00:45:57,520
to me, that's probably one of
the after murdering his brother,

849
00:45:57,520 --> 00:45:58,840
right?
I think that's the second

850
00:45:58,840 --> 00:46:04,520
biggest sin, right?
Is this this, this idea that no,

851
00:46:04,560 --> 00:46:10,080
I, I, I don't, I don't have any
responsibility towards him and

852
00:46:10,080 --> 00:46:11,760
so.
If you leave me a good patriarch

853
00:46:11,760 --> 00:46:14,000
to the family, if he's not going
to take take care of the rest of

854
00:46:14,000 --> 00:46:16,600
them, he has.
Already disqualified himself.

855
00:46:16,680 --> 00:46:21,000
And you know, even if he didn't
kill Abel, he's disqualified

856
00:46:21,000 --> 00:46:22,160
himself.
With the attitude.

857
00:46:22,600 --> 00:46:27,120
From being that, that that the
successor just by the attitude.

858
00:46:27,280 --> 00:46:28,200
Absolutely.
Yeah.

859
00:46:28,200 --> 00:46:30,160
That was a fun little thing to
put together.

860
00:46:33,320 --> 00:46:34,800
Let's see, where are we going
from here?

861
00:46:36,720 --> 00:46:40,840
OK, this gets into the murder.
OK, after all this, you know,

862
00:46:40,840 --> 00:46:44,000
after the sacrifice is rejected,
he's losing the birthright.

863
00:46:44,000 --> 00:46:46,040
Potentially, although it's not
explicit, right?

864
00:46:46,040 --> 00:46:48,880
Let's keep that in our mind.
Satan is more than willing to

865
00:46:48,880 --> 00:46:51,800
step in now and tell Cain, hey,
there's still a way you can be

866
00:46:51,800 --> 00:46:53,040
patriarch.
Right.

867
00:46:54,120 --> 00:46:56,760
And the two of them establish a
counterfeit gospel and a

868
00:46:56,760 --> 00:47:00,040
counterfeit program also based
on the use of covenants.

869
00:47:00,640 --> 00:47:03,160
But it's inverted.
What is?

870
00:47:03,240 --> 00:47:06,360
What does Satan tell Cain?
He says, Swear unto me by thy

871
00:47:06,360 --> 00:47:09,880
throat, and if thou tell it,
thou shalt die, and swear thy

872
00:47:09,880 --> 00:47:12,840
brethren by their heads and by
the living God, that they tell

873
00:47:12,840 --> 00:47:16,080
it not, for if they tell it,
they shall surely die, and this

874
00:47:16,080 --> 00:47:19,680
that thy father may not know it.
And this day I will deliver thy

875
00:47:19,680 --> 00:47:25,320
brother Abel into my hands.
Follow that with the book of

876
00:47:25,320 --> 00:47:28,560
ether.
And it came to pass that Achish

877
00:47:28,560 --> 00:47:31,360
gathered in unto the House of
Jared all of his kinsfolk, and

878
00:47:31,360 --> 00:47:34,200
said unto them, Will you swear
unto me that you'll be faithful

879
00:47:34,200 --> 00:47:36,560
unto me in this thing that I
shall desire of you?

880
00:47:36,560 --> 00:47:39,000
And it came to pass that they
all swear unto him by the God of

881
00:47:39,000 --> 00:47:41,560
heaven, and by the heavens, and
also the earth, and by their

882
00:47:41,560 --> 00:47:44,520
heads, that whoso should vary
from this, the assistance with

883
00:47:44,560 --> 00:47:46,680
which Akish desired should lose
his head.

884
00:47:47,160 --> 00:47:50,040
And whoso should divulge
whatsoever thing Akish made

885
00:47:50,040 --> 00:47:51,800
known unto them, the same should
lose his life.

886
00:47:53,080 --> 00:47:58,600
Now so you have Cain or you have
Satan saying to these, you know,

887
00:47:58,680 --> 00:48:00,960
because the other, the
combination of Achish also came

888
00:48:00,960 --> 00:48:04,520
from the records which came from
Cain, right, You know, So you

889
00:48:04,520 --> 00:48:06,400
have swear unto me by your.
Throat.

890
00:48:06,800 --> 00:48:10,720
By the living God, by your head,
by the heavens, by the earth,

891
00:48:11,000 --> 00:48:15,000
and by God swear by God, not by
me, not by the devil, by God,

892
00:48:15,040 --> 00:48:17,840
Right.
What does Christ say in the in

893
00:48:17,840 --> 00:48:19,960
the New Testament and in the
Book of Mormon when he appears

894
00:48:19,960 --> 00:48:22,640
in the temple, he says again, it
is written, Thou shall not

895
00:48:22,640 --> 00:48:25,680
forswear thyself, but shall
perform under the Lord thine

896
00:48:25,680 --> 00:48:28,160
odes.
But verily I say unto you, swear

897
00:48:28,160 --> 00:48:31,040
not at all, neither by heaven,
for it is God's throne, nor by

898
00:48:31,040 --> 00:48:32,680
the earth, for it is his
footstool.

899
00:48:32,920 --> 00:48:36,320
Neither shalt thy swear by thy
head, because thou cannot make

900
00:48:36,320 --> 00:48:38,520
one hair black or white.
But let your communication be

901
00:48:38,520 --> 00:48:42,200
yay, yay, nay, nay, for
whatsoever cometh of more than

902
00:48:42,200 --> 00:48:47,640
they didn't than these is evil.
So Christ is literally warning

903
00:48:47,640 --> 00:48:50,960
against the covenants that Satan
Institute's in the in the

904
00:48:50,960 --> 00:48:52,600
sermon.
Right, right.

905
00:48:52,920 --> 00:48:56,360
Also, there's four covenants and
oaths that Satan requires in

906
00:48:56,360 --> 00:48:59,120
that there's four different
oaths.

907
00:48:59,560 --> 00:49:01,200
Really.
Throughout there, yeah.

908
00:49:03,480 --> 00:49:04,840
What?
What are the oaths do you have?

909
00:49:05,760 --> 00:49:10,760
By your head, by the earth, by
the heavens, and by your throat.

910
00:49:11,280 --> 00:49:14,440
OK, And that's all what Christ
said not to do.

911
00:49:14,520 --> 00:49:15,800
Right.
Absolutely.

912
00:49:16,840 --> 00:49:21,120
So it's a ritual reversal of the
endowment covenants essentially,

913
00:49:21,120 --> 00:49:23,880
right?
Wow.

914
00:49:24,360 --> 00:49:29,760
And and I think this is
worthwhile point out to usually

915
00:49:29,760 --> 00:49:35,280
the usually the adversary isn't
going to just make everything

916
00:49:35,280 --> 00:49:39,520
dark because I think most people
would recoil at that feeling.

917
00:49:40,000 --> 00:49:42,800
Sure, right.
It's going to be with.

918
00:49:42,800 --> 00:49:45,480
Twisted light, Yeah.
Swear by God in his throne in

919
00:49:45,560 --> 00:49:48,920
the heavens, right?
It's it's going to be with

920
00:49:48,920 --> 00:49:54,320
twisted light.
And so often I've looked at what

921
00:49:54,320 --> 00:49:58,760
happens with the adversary
versus what happens with the

922
00:49:58,760 --> 00:50:03,080
savior, and it seems to be a
negative in image, right?

923
00:50:03,080 --> 00:50:06,680
It's just a mirror image.
It's the opposite, same image

924
00:50:06,680 --> 00:50:07,960
but twisted.
Yep.

925
00:50:08,200 --> 00:50:11,560
And so Christ, if you take this
in context like we just did,

926
00:50:12,400 --> 00:50:14,800
Christ isn't actually saying,
and the Christians have a little

927
00:50:14,800 --> 00:50:17,800
big problem with Mormons about
the temple because they say

928
00:50:17,800 --> 00:50:20,360
Christ says don't swear, you
can't make oaths.

929
00:50:20,760 --> 00:50:22,240
Christ isn't saying don't make
oaths.

930
00:50:22,240 --> 00:50:26,280
He's saying don't make special
certain specific kinds of oaths,

931
00:50:26,320 --> 00:50:28,120
right?
Is which is he's warning

932
00:50:28,120 --> 00:50:29,960
against, which is abundantly
clear.

933
00:50:29,960 --> 00:50:33,160
If you can study the Scriptures
and compare all these, right?

934
00:50:33,560 --> 00:50:37,600
Absolutely.
And so the flocks, right, the

935
00:50:37,600 --> 00:50:40,000
flocks.
And this day I will deliver your

936
00:50:40,000 --> 00:50:42,840
brother Abel into your hands.
And it came in the past that

937
00:50:42,840 --> 00:50:44,680
Cain took one of his brothers
daughters to wife.

938
00:50:44,680 --> 00:50:48,320
They love Satan more than God
and Cain said truly I am Mahan

939
00:50:48,320 --> 00:50:51,240
the master of this great secret
that that I may murder and get

940
00:50:51,240 --> 00:50:53,040
gained.
Wherefore Cain was called Master

941
00:50:53,040 --> 00:50:57,240
Mahan and gloried in his
wickedness etcetera.

942
00:50:57,360 --> 00:51:00,360
Cain rose up against Abel his
brother and slew him and Cain

943
00:51:00,360 --> 00:51:03,840
gloried in that which he had
done saying I am free.

944
00:51:04,120 --> 00:51:06,760
Surely the flocks of my brother
falls into my hands.

945
00:51:07,040 --> 00:51:08,960
Now he nibbly throughout a lot
of his lectures.

946
00:51:09,000 --> 00:51:12,680
So it's it's repeated constantly
in different lectures.

947
00:51:12,760 --> 00:51:17,440
He says that Cain was after the
money.

948
00:51:17,600 --> 00:51:22,480
He was, you know, because we
know that Satan offered to Adam

949
00:51:22,480 --> 00:51:26,240
a program that he could rule the
world by money, and he offered

950
00:51:26,240 --> 00:51:28,360
Cain the same program that Adam
rejected.

951
00:51:28,360 --> 00:51:30,840
Right.
I can vibe with that, yeah.

952
00:51:31,280 --> 00:51:36,400
But I also think that the flocks
go back to something that's more

953
00:51:36,400 --> 00:51:39,400
than just the money in the
actual physical lambs that Abel

954
00:51:39,400 --> 00:51:41,480
owned.
It's talking about the flocks of

955
00:51:41,480 --> 00:51:42,800
the gospel.
Right.

956
00:51:43,480 --> 00:51:46,840
Back to the patriarch position.
Yep, the flocks of my brother

957
00:51:46,840 --> 00:51:50,120
Abel, the the people he's
feeding and teaching, the

958
00:51:50,120 --> 00:51:52,040
younger kids.
He'll have power.

959
00:51:52,360 --> 00:51:55,360
The flocks are mine.
They fall into my hands now.

960
00:51:55,440 --> 00:51:56,960
Abel's gone.
Right.

961
00:51:58,200 --> 00:52:03,480
And and really look, the, the
other interesting thing about

962
00:52:03,480 --> 00:52:06,840
this is, is that I don't think
true power is ever measured

963
00:52:06,840 --> 00:52:10,640
really in money, right?
I think, I think people try, I

964
00:52:10,640 --> 00:52:14,840
think when you get down to
power, you require followers for

965
00:52:14,840 --> 00:52:19,200
that you do, right?
You can't be a dictator of by

966
00:52:19,200 --> 00:52:22,760
yourself, right?
You have to have somebody else

967
00:52:23,440 --> 00:52:27,520
that you rule over.
And I think this is the promise

968
00:52:27,520 --> 00:52:30,600
with the flocks, right?
Is it's not just the physical

969
00:52:30,600 --> 00:52:33,880
sheep like you were saying, it's
the human family.

970
00:52:34,400 --> 00:52:37,400
And and the plot wasn't just him
alone either.

971
00:52:37,400 --> 00:52:40,000
He had his other brothers.
Cain said tell your brother and

972
00:52:40,000 --> 00:52:41,920
to swear unto me or swear unto
God.

973
00:52:42,600 --> 00:52:45,600
Helaman says the same thing, you
know in the book of Helaman and

974
00:52:45,600 --> 00:52:48,160
he did plot with Cain and his
followers from that time forth.

975
00:52:49,480 --> 00:52:53,040
Section 84 says Abel, who is
slain by the conspiracy of his

976
00:52:53,040 --> 00:52:54,360
brother, which takes more than
one.

977
00:52:57,480 --> 00:53:03,520
And my notes here, it seems that
Cain made war against his father

978
00:53:03,520 --> 00:53:07,240
Adam, possibly telling others of
his siblings that Adam was no

979
00:53:07,240 --> 00:53:09,560
longer or able or capable of
leadership.

980
00:53:10,040 --> 00:53:12,800
And by pulling away his brothers
and sisters, Cain established a

981
00:53:12,800 --> 00:53:16,120
counterfeit to the gospel and to
the priesthood, making a claim

982
00:53:16,120 --> 00:53:20,080
to keys.
You know, Cain isn't becoming an

983
00:53:20,080 --> 00:53:22,560
atheist.
He's not becoming a Satanist

984
00:53:23,200 --> 00:53:27,040
upfront.
But this is what he can do with

985
00:53:27,080 --> 00:53:31,480
what This is what we can see
that he's saying in possibly

986
00:53:31,480 --> 00:53:33,640
when we're reading the the
scriptures.

987
00:53:34,400 --> 00:53:37,320
One, he can go tell his siblings
that he's getting into this

988
00:53:37,320 --> 00:53:41,760
covenant and afterwards, even if
he was to ascend to the

989
00:53:41,760 --> 00:53:44,520
patriarchal position, these this
is the rhetoric that happens.

990
00:53:45,360 --> 00:53:48,160
Adam is old or crazy and he's
passed his ability to lead.

991
00:53:48,360 --> 00:53:52,240
But I Cain know all the rights
in the ordinances, right,

992
00:53:52,240 --> 00:53:53,640
because he's seen the face of
God.

993
00:53:54,400 --> 00:53:57,040
You know, I have all the
ordinances Adam can't lead.

994
00:53:57,520 --> 00:54:03,480
And three, I have seen Almond or
Elohim or Jehovah, whoever Adam

995
00:54:03,480 --> 00:54:05,480
is speaking with, I've seen him
too.

996
00:54:06,520 --> 00:54:08,720
The same God that our Father
Adam claims to follow.

997
00:54:08,720 --> 00:54:12,600
I've seen him and I have seen
the Son.

998
00:54:13,120 --> 00:54:16,400
I've seen Satan masquerading as
the Son of God.

999
00:54:16,400 --> 00:54:19,240
What does he say to Moses?
I am the only begotten worship

1000
00:54:19,240 --> 00:54:21,080
me.
So not only can he just tell his

1001
00:54:21,080 --> 00:54:26,200
siblings I've talked to God face
to face, I can also manifest

1002
00:54:27,480 --> 00:54:30,120
Satan appearing as an Angel of
light, appearing as a savior.

1003
00:54:30,440 --> 00:54:33,200
So I've got God and the Son up
at my back.

1004
00:54:33,600 --> 00:54:36,320
I'm the one who should succeed.
That's all.

1005
00:54:36,400 --> 00:54:39,360
That's that's a pretty good
position to be in.

1006
00:54:40,560 --> 00:54:42,440
And you probably think he's
about to get away with it.

1007
00:54:42,520 --> 00:54:44,280
And he probably thinks he's
about to get away with it.

1008
00:54:45,760 --> 00:54:51,640
Interesting notes too, though.
However, he's he's cast out to

1009
00:54:54,200 --> 00:54:58,640
the land of Nod.
That's interesting because as

1010
00:54:58,640 --> 00:55:01,240
we're talking about and diving
into the possibility of there

1011
00:55:01,240 --> 00:55:05,320
being priesthood related items
that are between the line, so to

1012
00:55:05,320 --> 00:55:08,880
speak, where is where was the
land of Nod?

1013
00:55:08,880 --> 00:55:11,680
Do you remember?
I don't the east side of Eden,

1014
00:55:11,760 --> 00:55:15,560
the Garden of Eden.
OK, I have a quote here from a

1015
00:55:15,560 --> 00:55:20,360
book called Pearl the Great
Price, a verse by verse

1016
00:55:20,360 --> 00:55:24,080
commentary.
It says the east side of the

1017
00:55:24,080 --> 00:55:27,720
garden is the place of sacred
entry, as it was of most ancient

1018
00:55:27,720 --> 00:55:31,120
holy sanctuaries whose main
gates face the rising sun.

1019
00:55:31,440 --> 00:55:34,880
Temples face the east, right?
In fact, Cain and his family

1020
00:55:34,880 --> 00:55:38,440
settled east of Eden in an
apparent attempt to remain close

1021
00:55:38,440 --> 00:55:41,880
both to the original place of
his parents residence and to the

1022
00:55:41,880 --> 00:55:45,240
gate leading into the garden.
So that's a strategic move.

1023
00:55:45,480 --> 00:55:48,760
Yeah, because Adam and Eve are
cast out of the garden and it's

1024
00:55:48,760 --> 00:55:52,320
guarded.
But if he sets up camp the way

1025
00:55:52,320 --> 00:55:54,680
that you enter Eden, he's
setting himself as the

1026
00:55:54,680 --> 00:56:00,080
gatekeeper back to paradise.
And in ancient Judaism, Eden was

1027
00:56:00,080 --> 00:56:01,880
representative of the temple,
right?

1028
00:56:02,080 --> 00:56:08,200
And so he's he is symbolically
claiming the the priesthood by

1029
00:56:09,360 --> 00:56:11,760
by setting up camp at the
entrance of the temple.

1030
00:56:12,000 --> 00:56:14,560
You know, so often we look at
this story and we just think,

1031
00:56:14,560 --> 00:56:16,040
well, it's just a story about a
family.

1032
00:56:16,080 --> 00:56:19,280
And it is and it is.
There's a lot of almost

1033
00:56:19,280 --> 00:56:22,400
political intrigue to this story
when you peel.

1034
00:56:22,400 --> 00:56:24,400
Oh, this, this opens it up.
Yeah.

1035
00:56:26,120 --> 00:56:31,080
In pseudepigraphal books, Books
of Enoch, for example, Professor

1036
00:56:31,080 --> 00:56:35,320
King Nibley wrote the following.
When the works of darkness began

1037
00:56:35,320 --> 00:56:38,720
to prevail among the sons of
men, a sort of crash program was

1038
00:56:38,720 --> 00:56:42,440
undertaken to stem the tide of
apostasy as the Gospel began to

1039
00:56:42,440 --> 00:56:45,320
be preached by holy angels sent
forth from the presence of God,

1040
00:56:45,680 --> 00:56:49,320
as well as earthly ministers.
According to the very ancient,

1041
00:56:49,360 --> 00:56:52,480
firmly established, and widely
documented tradition, some of

1042
00:56:52,480 --> 00:56:56,240
the angels who came down to call
men to repentance as watchers to

1043
00:56:56,240 --> 00:56:58,600
oversee and report the
conditions of the earth, allowed

1044
00:56:58,600 --> 00:57:01,440
themselves to be seduced by the
daughters of men, forgot their

1045
00:57:01,440 --> 00:57:05,240
calling, and fell from grace.
Their unspeakable sin was to use

1046
00:57:05,240 --> 00:57:08,640
the sacred in an unhallowed
connection, even as Cain did,

1047
00:57:08,920 --> 00:57:11,880
claiming that since they had all
the ordinances, their activities

1048
00:57:11,880 --> 00:57:15,320
were authorized of heaven.
OK, I, I want to make sure I

1049
00:57:15,320 --> 00:57:17,680
heard that right.
Did he say certain angels?

1050
00:57:17,680 --> 00:57:18,960
Yeah, he did.
OK.

1051
00:57:18,960 --> 00:57:24,840
Which would which would as we
talked about before, you can

1052
00:57:24,840 --> 00:57:27,360
make the case that they had
physical bodies.

1053
00:57:28,480 --> 00:57:29,600
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

1054
00:57:29,600 --> 00:57:33,480
Yeah.
Section 129 defines an Angel as

1055
00:57:33,720 --> 00:57:40,120
a as a resurrected person
Tabernacle, right, right.

1056
00:57:40,120 --> 00:57:44,480
And you see in the book of
Moses, as nibbly is saying that

1057
00:57:44,480 --> 00:57:48,160
once all, like literally all of
Adam's children besides Seth are

1058
00:57:48,160 --> 00:57:50,800
literally rebelling against the
gospel.

1059
00:57:50,800 --> 00:57:57,080
And it says that like once Enos
is born, that and their children

1060
00:57:57,080 --> 00:57:59,640
were sent to, you know, as
missionaries out there to teach

1061
00:57:59,640 --> 00:58:01,280
repentance.
But also the angels are coming

1062
00:58:01,280 --> 00:58:04,960
down and it says that God's
voice was was heard from the

1063
00:58:04,960 --> 00:58:07,120
heavens from time to time.
And the gift of the Holy Ghost

1064
00:58:07,120 --> 00:58:10,120
was a was was, you know, the
Holy Ghost was ministering.

1065
00:58:10,120 --> 00:58:13,440
So you have, this is the crash
program that you know, that

1066
00:58:13,440 --> 00:58:16,880
Nibbley is talking about, but
the angels that we're overseeing

1067
00:58:16,880 --> 00:58:19,520
all this, the watcher, the
watcher or the Watchers, you

1068
00:58:19,520 --> 00:58:21,840
know, they were the ones that
that fell.

1069
00:58:21,840 --> 00:58:24,880
And also Nibbley's postulating
use similar rhetoric.

1070
00:58:24,880 --> 00:58:26,520
We've had all, all of our
ordinances.

1071
00:58:27,320 --> 00:58:32,400
We're authorized to do whatever
we need to do, you know, and but

1072
00:58:32,400 --> 00:58:34,400
it's becomes a corruption.
It's not authorized.

1073
00:58:35,080 --> 00:58:38,600
Nibbley goes on in another place
called in a book called Temples

1074
00:58:38,600 --> 00:58:42,600
of the Ancient World.
He says there will there will be

1075
00:58:43,200 --> 00:58:47,360
false priesthoods in the days of
Seth, Adam prophesied and God

1076
00:58:47,360 --> 00:58:49,960
will be angry with their
attempts to surpass his power.

1077
00:58:49,960 --> 00:58:52,920
The punishment of the watchers
like that of Cain was to be

1078
00:58:52,920 --> 00:58:54,960
rejected both by heaven and
earth.

1079
00:58:55,720 --> 00:59:00,520
And he quotes some obscure
something like the Pista Sophia

1080
00:59:00,520 --> 00:59:05,800
or the 2nd book of Jew.
Yeah, this is an article that I

1081
00:59:05,800 --> 00:59:08,200
lifted from a book called The
Ancient Documents and the Pearl,

1082
00:59:08,200 --> 00:59:12,680
the Great Price, also by Nibley.
It was like a like series of 26

1083
00:59:12,680 --> 00:59:15,040
or 27 lectures you gave at BYU
in 1986.

1084
00:59:15,200 --> 00:59:17,920
This is awesome.
It recaps all about what we said

1085
00:59:18,280 --> 00:59:21,360
pretty much in, in in ways that,
you know, Nibley is just so good

1086
00:59:21,360 --> 00:59:23,600
with words.
So I have to read it.

1087
00:59:24,120 --> 00:59:27,120
Now we come to the epic of Cain.
He is a very important person

1088
00:59:27,120 --> 00:59:29,240
because we talked about the
problem of evil in the world.

1089
00:59:29,720 --> 00:59:31,080
This tells us a lot of the
story.

1090
00:59:31,240 --> 00:59:34,440
And Cain loves Satan more than
God and and Satan commanded him

1091
00:59:34,440 --> 00:59:35,960
saying make an offering unto the
Lord.

1092
00:59:36,520 --> 00:59:38,800
Satan is counterfeiting the
ordinances.

1093
00:59:38,840 --> 00:59:41,360
Notice again he says make an
offering unto the Lord.

1094
00:59:41,640 --> 00:59:44,400
He doesn't say make an offering
unto me or make an offering unto

1095
00:59:44,400 --> 00:59:46,400
devils.
He says, make an offering unto

1096
00:59:46,760 --> 00:59:49,320
unto the Lord.
He claims to be running the

1097
00:59:49,320 --> 00:59:51,600
gospel on earth.
He claims to be running the

1098
00:59:51,600 --> 00:59:54,000
church.
Now Satan is going to organize

1099
00:59:54,000 --> 00:59:56,360
this thing and keep it going.
He's going to put it under

1100
00:59:56,360 --> 00:59:58,720
control and make it effective.
He's going to take over the

1101
00:59:58,720 --> 01:00:00,600
world.
He has been intimating

1102
01:00:00,600 --> 01:00:03,400
everything in the gospel all the
way through and perverting it

1103
01:00:03,400 --> 01:00:05,280
all the way through.
Everything is done in the name

1104
01:00:05,280 --> 01:00:08,320
of God and salvation.
His original plan was to save

1105
01:00:08,320 --> 01:00:10,760
them all.
Now it is the mockery of the

1106
01:00:10,760 --> 01:00:13,080
ordinances of the endowment
which he takes them through.

1107
01:00:14,280 --> 01:00:17,440
It's a mockery and it's reverse.
He doesn't want Adam to know

1108
01:00:17,440 --> 01:00:19,680
about this because Adam is the
head of the church.

1109
01:00:20,040 --> 01:00:22,640
Adam is the one in charge of the
ordinances and all the rest.

1110
01:00:22,680 --> 01:00:25,560
He doesn't want Adam to know
what he has been faking.

1111
01:00:25,840 --> 01:00:28,360
And what he's been doing here,
he must not know that the

1112
01:00:28,360 --> 01:00:31,080
ordinances have been perverted,
or he would put a stop to it.

1113
01:00:31,760 --> 01:00:33,480
Quote.
And this is that thy father may

1114
01:00:33,480 --> 01:00:36,360
not know it.
You do this, and this day I will

1115
01:00:36,360 --> 01:00:38,280
deliver thy brother Abel into
thy hands.

1116
01:00:42,040 --> 01:00:43,560
Something just occurred to me
here.

1117
01:00:47,280 --> 01:00:49,920
Well, you know what I'll save?
I'll save it for a little later

1118
01:00:49,920 --> 01:00:52,160
in the narrative here, there.
There's something I want to

1119
01:00:52,160 --> 01:00:54,400
bring out, but I feel like this
isn't the right time.

1120
01:00:54,880 --> 01:00:56,880
Fair enough.
Well, yeah, let's go ahead and

1121
01:00:56,880 --> 01:00:58,600
do it.
Now, Can you imagine the

1122
01:00:58,600 --> 01:01:01,400
heartbreak that Adam and Eve
must have felt?

1123
01:01:03,640 --> 01:01:07,120
Because at some level, you know,
and and, and if we view the

1124
01:01:07,120 --> 01:01:10,880
temple liturgy as being both
symbolic as well as literal,

1125
01:01:11,880 --> 01:01:14,960
they they must have felt like
they'd vanquished Satan.

1126
01:01:15,320 --> 01:01:17,040
To a certain extent.
Sure.

1127
01:01:17,040 --> 01:01:18,320
Everybody just keeps coming
back.

1128
01:01:18,520 --> 01:01:21,560
But he just keeps coming back,
and this time he's like, we

1129
01:01:21,560 --> 01:01:23,600
can't let Adam know.
Yeah.

1130
01:01:24,760 --> 01:01:26,600
He obviously knows how to get
rid of him, right?

1131
01:01:26,600 --> 01:01:30,920
So it's like we, we can't let
Adam, Adam know about this,

1132
01:01:31,080 --> 01:01:32,440
right?
This has got to be on the damn

1133
01:01:32,440 --> 01:01:34,360
wall.
Can you imagine the shock and

1134
01:01:34,360 --> 01:01:37,320
horror that Adam and Eve must
have felt when this all comes to

1135
01:01:37,320 --> 01:01:39,800
light?
Oh yeah, yeah.

1136
01:01:39,960 --> 01:01:44,040
No, it would have been
absolutely horrific and highly

1137
01:01:44,040 --> 01:01:46,160
disappointing.
You know Eve's blessing on her

1138
01:01:46,160 --> 01:01:47,720
son was.
Yeah.

1139
01:01:47,840 --> 01:01:49,600
That he will know the Lord.
Yep.

1140
01:01:50,560 --> 01:01:52,640
And he did, but he refused him.
Yes.

1141
01:01:52,920 --> 01:01:56,840
You know, willful disobedient.
It's not just it's too hard to

1142
01:01:56,840 --> 01:01:58,120
be a Mormon.
Right.

1143
01:01:58,360 --> 01:02:01,080
You know right It's.
Too hard to live the gospel.

1144
01:02:01,080 --> 01:02:02,560
I'm just going to quit while I'm
ahead.

1145
01:02:02,600 --> 01:02:04,360
No, this is act Active
Rebellion.

1146
01:02:04,360 --> 01:02:06,360
Yep.
This is different, right?

1147
01:02:06,360 --> 01:02:09,800
This is different than someone
who just runs out of gas or

1148
01:02:09,800 --> 01:02:15,080
someone who just makes a mistake
or someone who who quite frankly

1149
01:02:15,080 --> 01:02:19,800
goes through a period of, you
know, exploring.

1150
01:02:20,000 --> 01:02:24,720
I shouldn't say exploring, but
maybe disobedience and you know,

1151
01:02:24,720 --> 01:02:26,280
just trying to figure things
out.

1152
01:02:26,280 --> 01:02:32,040
This is willful.
This is I've met the Lord and

1153
01:02:32,440 --> 01:02:34,560
no, it's not for me.
Right.

1154
01:02:34,680 --> 01:02:37,120
No, it's, it's, it's terrible.
Not just.

1155
01:02:37,120 --> 01:02:39,200
It's not for me.
God's wrong.

1156
01:02:40,000 --> 01:02:42,880
Yeah, Yeah, God's wrong.
I mean, it's a hell of a stance

1157
01:02:42,880 --> 01:02:45,400
to take.
Oh, it is, yeah.

1158
01:02:46,960 --> 01:02:48,960
I don't even know that.
Like, we talked about some of

1159
01:02:48,960 --> 01:02:51,360
the psychology and it's apparent
that, you know, we talked about

1160
01:02:51,360 --> 01:02:53,080
some of what's going on in his
head, but there's some things I

1161
01:02:53,080 --> 01:02:56,400
just don't understand, you know?
But he thinks, you know, is he

1162
01:02:56,400 --> 01:02:59,440
knowingly settling for the
rewards of the earth, knowing

1163
01:02:59,440 --> 01:03:00,760
that he's going to be eternally
damned?

1164
01:03:01,120 --> 01:03:03,640
Or does he think that he can
actually beat God and obtain

1165
01:03:03,720 --> 01:03:06,080
exaltation?
I think he thinks he he can be

1166
01:03:06,080 --> 01:03:08,040
God.
And let me tell you why, Because

1167
01:03:08,040 --> 01:03:10,960
we're doing it again on a
societal level.

1168
01:03:11,040 --> 01:03:16,600
Sure, Right.
OK, this one may get me banned.

1169
01:03:16,600 --> 01:03:17,680
I don't.
Whatever.

1170
01:03:20,000 --> 01:03:22,840
A dude that says he's a woman.
No, no, you're not.

1171
01:03:23,200 --> 01:03:24,040
Right.
Right.

1172
01:03:25,080 --> 01:03:28,720
We can just keep printing money.
No, you can't, right?

1173
01:03:29,080 --> 01:03:31,840
And so we continue to do the
same things.

1174
01:03:32,240 --> 01:03:35,320
And this won't be the only time
in Scripture where we see this,

1175
01:03:35,320 --> 01:03:37,240
right?
Tower of Babel's the same, the

1176
01:03:37,240 --> 01:03:40,200
same story, same program.
It's the same program, right?

1177
01:03:42,000 --> 01:03:48,280
For some reason man thinks he
can beat God and every time it

1178
01:03:48,280 --> 01:03:51,960
does not end well for the
individual or individuals who do

1179
01:03:51,960 --> 01:03:53,280
so.
But.

1180
01:03:53,360 --> 01:03:56,200
Man honestly thinks he can beat
God, right?

1181
01:03:56,800 --> 01:04:01,120
We see it crop up in Greek, you
know, mythology, right?

1182
01:04:01,120 --> 01:04:04,480
Can't remember who it was that
would storm the gates of heaven,

1183
01:04:04,800 --> 01:04:06,920
Right.
And they would be cast out.

1184
01:04:07,360 --> 01:04:11,400
And so this is a tale as old as
humanity.

1185
01:04:11,600 --> 01:04:12,960
Sure.
Yeah.

1186
01:04:13,120 --> 01:04:17,800
I can, I can see that so
interesting to note the

1187
01:04:17,800 --> 01:04:20,360
statement where you know the
dialogue with the Lord and with

1188
01:04:20,360 --> 01:04:21,520
Cain.
You know where is Abel thy

1189
01:04:21,520 --> 01:04:23,760
brother?
I know not Am I my brother's

1190
01:04:23,760 --> 01:04:27,360
keeper in the Lord, who
obviously knows what has thou

1191
01:04:27,360 --> 01:04:29,320
done?
The voice of thy brother's blood

1192
01:04:29,320 --> 01:04:32,840
cries unto me from the ground.
And now thou shall be cursed

1193
01:04:32,840 --> 01:04:34,800
from the earth which has opened
her mouth to receive thy

1194
01:04:34,800 --> 01:04:38,000
brother's blood from thy hand.
And when thou, when thou tellest

1195
01:04:38,000 --> 01:04:43,160
the ground, it shall not, not
henceforth yield unto her, yield

1196
01:04:43,160 --> 01:04:46,200
unto thee her strength, a
fugitive and a Vagabond, thou

1197
01:04:46,200 --> 01:04:49,880
shall be in the earth.
Now, it's interesting to note

1198
01:04:50,000 --> 01:04:55,080
that blood in this verse.
When I was looking at this, the

1199
01:04:55,080 --> 01:04:56,800
research says the blood is
plural.

1200
01:04:58,240 --> 01:04:59,920
And also, he's killed more than
one.

1201
01:05:00,040 --> 01:05:04,240
Or it's the seed of Abel that
you've cut off from, from the

1202
01:05:04,240 --> 01:05:06,080
earth.
You know, all the spirits that

1203
01:05:06,080 --> 01:05:09,560
we're going to come through Abel
are, you know, it's the

1204
01:05:09,560 --> 01:05:12,680
posterity.
The seed of Abel is is what this

1205
01:05:12,680 --> 01:05:15,760
this refers to the entire
posterity just cut off.

1206
01:05:16,000 --> 01:05:17,760
Right.
You've destroyed the entire

1207
01:05:17,760 --> 01:05:22,840
brash, Yeah.
That ties in to a statement made

1208
01:05:22,840 --> 01:05:27,520
by Brigham Young to Lorenzo Snow
in 1849, who when talking about

1209
01:05:28,080 --> 01:05:32,320
the seed of Cain who were
identified as as Africans,

1210
01:05:32,320 --> 01:05:35,400
President Young replied that
this curse remained upon them

1211
01:05:35,400 --> 01:05:38,640
because Cain cut off the lives
of Abel to prevent him and his

1212
01:05:38,640 --> 01:05:41,960
posterity getting the ascendancy
over Cain and his generations,

1213
01:05:42,480 --> 01:05:45,800
and to get the lead himself, his
own offering not being accepted

1214
01:05:45,800 --> 01:05:48,920
of God while Abel's was.
But the Lord had cursed Cain's

1215
01:05:48,920 --> 01:05:51,000
seed with blackness and
prohibited them from the

1216
01:05:51,000 --> 01:05:53,880
priesthood that Abel and his
progeny might yet come forward

1217
01:05:53,880 --> 01:05:56,880
and have their dominance place
and blessings in their proper

1218
01:05:56,880 --> 01:05:59,400
relationship with Cain and his
race in the world to come.

1219
01:06:00,560 --> 01:06:04,480
And the so the idea is there was
also an intentional.

1220
01:06:04,960 --> 01:06:10,240
It's the decision made based on
knowledge revealed at the time,

1221
01:06:10,240 --> 01:06:13,800
because the gospel was revealed
of pre of pre existence.

1222
01:06:14,840 --> 01:06:18,440
That and there are lineages
that, you know, we've made

1223
01:06:18,440 --> 01:06:20,320
covenants to come through
lineages.

1224
01:06:20,320 --> 01:06:28,560
And Cain knowingly destroyed an
entire, you know, he didn't want

1225
01:06:28,560 --> 01:06:32,080
even the children of, of, of
Abel to, to be on the earth at

1226
01:06:32,080 --> 01:06:36,720
that point, which is like
genocide before you know, in a

1227
01:06:36,720 --> 01:06:38,080
certain sense.
Sure.

1228
01:06:38,320 --> 01:06:41,200
Yeah, Brigham Young said that
more Latter Day Saints

1229
01:06:41,200 --> 01:06:44,000
apostatized because of the
doctrine of pre existence than

1230
01:06:44,000 --> 01:06:47,120
for any other reason.
More than polygamy, more for the

1231
01:06:47,120 --> 01:06:49,560
trials and hardships, more than
for the teaching of the law of

1232
01:06:49,560 --> 01:06:51,560
consecration.
That's a paraphrase by Hugh

1233
01:06:51,600 --> 01:06:53,040
Nibley.
I've never seen the I haven't

1234
01:06:53,040 --> 01:06:55,360
seen the the quote from Brigham
Young, but that's what Nibley

1235
01:06:55,360 --> 01:06:58,600
said about the that Brigham
Young said that more Latter Day

1236
01:06:58,600 --> 01:07:01,280
Saints apostatized because of
the doctrine of pre existence,

1237
01:07:01,280 --> 01:07:03,200
that for any other reason.
That was an interesting.

1238
01:07:04,000 --> 01:07:07,560
Why do you think that is?
In the context when he brought

1239
01:07:07,560 --> 01:07:12,560
it up, he was talking about how
practically none of the other

1240
01:07:12,560 --> 01:07:15,600
religions of the world read a
knowledge of the pre existence,

1241
01:07:15,600 --> 01:07:17,800
so maybe it's just too contrary
to their traditions.

1242
01:07:17,880 --> 01:07:19,400
I think so.
I think so.

1243
01:07:19,680 --> 01:07:22,480
I think even though there's
allusions to it within the

1244
01:07:22,480 --> 01:07:25,680
Hebrew Bible.
Yeah, it's too off the top of my

1245
01:07:25,680 --> 01:07:26,960
head.
Right, there's the one with

1246
01:07:27,520 --> 01:07:31,080
Yeah, there's the one with job
Job where he says I knew thee

1247
01:07:31,080 --> 01:07:32,000
before I.
Formed thee.

1248
01:07:32,080 --> 01:07:33,720
That was Jeremiah.
That was Jeremiah.

1249
01:07:33,720 --> 01:07:35,400
Thank you.
But.

1250
01:07:35,720 --> 01:07:38,360
And and and to job, he says.
Where were you and I live?

1251
01:07:38,360 --> 01:07:40,080
Right, right.
Yeah.

1252
01:07:40,240 --> 01:07:42,440
So there's there's definitely
allusions to it.

1253
01:07:43,000 --> 01:07:45,920
I think the thing that it
freaks, that freaks people out

1254
01:07:45,920 --> 01:07:51,240
about it so badly is this idea
that there's more to the story.

1255
01:07:51,720 --> 01:07:52,560
Right.
Oh, they.

1256
01:07:52,640 --> 01:07:56,000
Yeah.
Because, because for so long

1257
01:07:57,640 --> 01:08:01,760
most of the Christian traditions
have believed in sola scriptura,

1258
01:08:01,880 --> 01:08:03,840
right?
This is the scripture.

1259
01:08:03,840 --> 01:08:07,600
Is it what the scripture says?
It's it's infallible.

1260
01:08:07,600 --> 01:08:09,680
It's fine the way it came, it's
perfect.

1261
01:08:10,520 --> 01:08:13,100
Well, if that's the case and
someone's talking about a pre

1262
01:08:13,100 --> 01:08:16,200
existence, I know there's more
to the story, right?

1263
01:08:16,200 --> 01:08:20,319
And there's more for us to know.
And all of a sudden that gets

1264
01:08:20,319 --> 01:08:25,080
tossed on its ear a little bit
and it upsets world views, it

1265
01:08:25,080 --> 01:08:30,880
upsets theological views.
It's it's rough stuff, so.

1266
01:08:32,399 --> 01:08:35,880
Quote from Martin Luther on this
subject, because this was a big

1267
01:08:35,880 --> 01:08:37,920
question all the time.
All the time.

1268
01:08:37,920 --> 01:08:40,720
The pre existence, we talked
about how the stuff was revealed

1269
01:08:40,720 --> 01:08:42,560
to Moses, you know, from the
very beginning.

1270
01:08:44,080 --> 01:08:47,520
But the the philosophy has been
going back and forth since

1271
01:08:47,520 --> 01:08:49,760
before Christianity, but
especially Christianity.

1272
01:08:50,000 --> 01:08:55,720
And it was it was buzzing around
when Luther was around and he

1273
01:08:55,720 --> 01:09:00,200
said people ask what God was
doing before he made this earth

1274
01:09:00,200 --> 01:09:03,720
or before he made the world.
I tell you that he was making a

1275
01:09:03,720 --> 01:09:05,680
hell prepared for those who
asked that question.

1276
01:09:06,000 --> 01:09:10,160
Yeah.
That's good.

1277
01:09:10,240 --> 01:09:10,960
I like that.
It is.

1278
01:09:10,960 --> 01:09:12,600
It's funny because he just
sidesteps it, right?

1279
01:09:12,600 --> 01:09:15,279
Yeah, but it's but he doesn't
even want to deal with the yeah

1280
01:09:15,279 --> 01:09:19,040
of the pre existence at all.
Yeah, I, I think, I think any

1281
01:09:19,040 --> 01:09:21,319
time that we find that there's
more of the story, then it

1282
01:09:21,319 --> 01:09:23,359
becomes incumbent upon us to go
find it.

1283
01:09:23,760 --> 01:09:26,000
Sure.
And on the opposite side of the

1284
01:09:26,000 --> 01:09:31,359
spectrum, eternity going
forward, you know, that's

1285
01:09:31,359 --> 01:09:35,200
abysmal and bleak because the
church doesn't know the the I

1286
01:09:35,200 --> 01:09:37,359
say when I say the church, I
mean sectarian Christianity.

1287
01:09:37,760 --> 01:09:40,279
Sectarian Christianity doesn't
tell you anything that we really

1288
01:09:40,279 --> 01:09:43,279
have to look forward to because
you just get assumed into God

1289
01:09:43,720 --> 01:09:46,479
and you're not a non identity
practically.

1290
01:09:47,439 --> 01:09:49,600
Which?
Which is a weird thought, right?

1291
01:09:51,279 --> 01:09:56,760
God wants a relationship with
you, but in the end, you're not

1292
01:09:56,760 --> 01:10:00,560
you and.
So because these things

1293
01:10:00,560 --> 01:10:03,880
philosophically don't answer our
questions to motivate us, it

1294
01:10:03,880 --> 01:10:06,600
also goes back to why try to
live the gospel if there's

1295
01:10:06,600 --> 01:10:10,400
nothing to look forward?
To right if, if we follow this

1296
01:10:10,400 --> 01:10:13,000
down that road, then
predestination's absolutely the

1297
01:10:13,000 --> 01:10:14,680
way to go.
Oh, there's that whole thing.

1298
01:10:14,800 --> 01:10:15,400
Yeah.
But it's.

1299
01:10:15,480 --> 01:10:18,280
And So what we have in the world
currently is because there's no

1300
01:10:18,320 --> 01:10:21,360
good answers to find, you know,
it's hard to find anyways.

1301
01:10:21,360 --> 01:10:22,680
They're they're there.
The answers are there.

1302
01:10:22,680 --> 01:10:24,920
We have the restored gospel.
But because people don't know

1303
01:10:24,920 --> 01:10:28,400
about this, they distract
themselves with meaningless

1304
01:10:28,400 --> 01:10:31,440
things their entire life.
The circus, circus, you know,

1305
01:10:31,440 --> 01:10:34,240
bread, bread and circus, you
know, like ancient Rome, which

1306
01:10:34,240 --> 01:10:37,320
led to the fall of civilization.
But that's the state that we're

1307
01:10:37,320 --> 01:10:40,120
in today because we don't want
to think about the terrible

1308
01:10:40,120 --> 01:10:45,600
questions, no, about eternity.
So just focus on living my best

1309
01:10:45,600 --> 01:10:49,560
life, living my truth and and
all that.

1310
01:10:50,080 --> 01:10:53,520
You know, I just had Nate, Nate
Richardson on here and we talked

1311
01:10:53,520 --> 01:10:57,120
a little bit about what is so
damaging about evolution, right.

1312
01:10:57,480 --> 01:11:03,280
And to me, I think in in kind of
a weird way, you can draw a line

1313
01:11:03,280 --> 01:11:09,840
between not being able to answer
the questions of both pre

1314
01:11:09,840 --> 01:11:14,880
mortality as well as post
mortality with any certainty.

1315
01:11:15,400 --> 01:11:19,080
I think you can draw a line at
why evolution seems to hold.

1316
01:11:19,560 --> 01:11:23,760
Maybe a little bit of it it it
gains some traction, right?

1317
01:11:24,040 --> 01:11:27,320
If you can't answer those
questions, well, then it's a lot

1318
01:11:27,320 --> 01:11:29,840
easier to believe that we're
happenstance.

1319
01:11:29,840 --> 01:11:32,840
We descend from monkeys and
everything just goes dark when

1320
01:11:32,840 --> 01:11:33,600
you die.
Yep.

1321
01:11:34,120 --> 01:11:36,520
Right.
Now here's the outcrop into

1322
01:11:36,520 --> 01:11:38,600
that, right?
I'm always interested in

1323
01:11:40,080 --> 01:11:43,160
unforeseen consequences, right?
What's the unforeseen

1324
01:11:43,160 --> 01:11:47,120
consequence to this idea that
that it's big, that we're just

1325
01:11:48,440 --> 01:11:50,440
noble animals, so to speak?
Right.

1326
01:11:51,840 --> 01:11:54,880
You can.
You can justify a lot of bad

1327
01:11:54,880 --> 01:11:57,360
crap by just saying it's my
animal behavior.

1328
01:11:57,520 --> 01:11:59,920
That's a very true right.
And there's no oh, then where's

1329
01:11:59,920 --> 01:12:00,720
morality?
Can you?

1330
01:12:01,000 --> 01:12:03,160
There's another right
philosophical question.

1331
01:12:03,440 --> 01:12:06,520
If there's no God to enforce
morality, If there's no reward.

1332
01:12:07,480 --> 01:12:09,400
Right.
Is there really morality?

1333
01:12:09,400 --> 01:12:12,080
Is there an objective morality?
Right, right.

1334
01:12:12,080 --> 01:12:15,080
And and then you get into this
idea of subjective truth and all

1335
01:12:15,080 --> 01:12:18,280
these other things that
inevitably lead to a.

1336
01:12:18,280 --> 01:12:20,560
Horror show in society, That's
what we're saying now.

1337
01:12:20,760 --> 01:12:22,400
Right.
And and that's what we're seeing

1338
01:12:22,400 --> 01:12:25,160
now, and that's what they saw.
Back then, Yep.

1339
01:12:26,160 --> 01:12:31,640
So back into some extra
canonical scripture from the

1340
01:12:31,680 --> 01:12:37,880
Christian era.
So there's the the the 1st and

1341
01:12:37,880 --> 01:12:39,560
2nd book of Adam and Eve is what
I've taken this from.

1342
01:12:39,560 --> 01:12:41,360
I think this is the very end of
the first book.

1343
01:12:41,360 --> 01:12:42,960
I could be wrong, it could be
the beginning of the second

1344
01:12:42,960 --> 01:12:47,360
book, but this relates a lot to
what we the book of Moses

1345
01:12:47,920 --> 01:12:52,600
accounts of, of this stuff which
is not in the Bible, it says.

1346
01:12:52,600 --> 01:12:55,800
But as to Abel, he had a meek
heart and was obedient to his

1347
01:12:55,800 --> 01:12:59,080
father and mother, whom he often
moved to make an offering,

1348
01:12:59,080 --> 01:13:01,560
because he loved it.
And he prayed and fasted much.

1349
01:13:02,080 --> 01:13:04,960
And that night while he was
praying, Satan appeared unto

1350
01:13:04,960 --> 01:13:09,000
him, unto Abel, in the figure of
a man who said to him, Thou hast

1351
01:13:09,000 --> 01:13:12,400
often times moved thy father to
make an offering, to fast and to

1352
01:13:12,400 --> 01:13:14,800
pray.
Therefore I will kill thee, and

1353
01:13:14,800 --> 01:13:16,000
make thee perish from this
world.

1354
01:13:16,960 --> 01:13:20,440
Yeah.
And meanwhile Satan came to

1355
01:13:20,440 --> 01:13:23,120
Cain.
That's not in the Bible, none of

1356
01:13:23,120 --> 01:13:25,000
this.
But then after telling Abel, I

1357
01:13:25,000 --> 01:13:28,440
want to kill you because you're
encouraging Adam and Eve to to

1358
01:13:28,440 --> 01:13:31,920
live the gospel, and they're
constantly making sacrifices and

1359
01:13:31,920 --> 01:13:33,800
remembering the atonement,
right.

1360
01:13:34,560 --> 01:13:37,360
Meanwhile, Satan came to Cain in
the figure of a man in the field

1361
01:13:37,640 --> 01:13:40,880
and said to him, Behold, Adam
and Eve have taken counsel

1362
01:13:40,880 --> 01:13:43,360
together.
Want more from the Mormon

1363
01:13:43,360 --> 01:13:47,080
Renegade podcast?
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1364
01:13:47,080 --> 01:13:51,000
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1365
01:13:51,000 --> 01:13:53,160
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1366
01:13:54,000 --> 01:13:57,520
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1367
01:13:57,520 --> 01:14:01,880
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1368
01:14:01,880 --> 01:14:06,240
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1369
01:14:06,280 --> 01:14:10,200
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1370
01:14:10,200 --> 01:14:13,680
Dave Sanders.
Click the link in this episode's

1371
01:14:13,720 --> 01:14:17,040
show notes today.
Meanwhile, Satan came to Canaan,

1372
01:14:17,040 --> 01:14:20,720
the figure of a man in the field
and said to him, behold, Adam

1373
01:14:20,720 --> 01:14:23,920
and Eve have taken counsel
together about the marriage of

1374
01:14:23,920 --> 01:14:28,160
U2 because in this the sisters
are named and there's some

1375
01:14:28,160 --> 01:14:31,160
arrangement or going to be some
arrangement between Abel's and

1376
01:14:31,160 --> 01:14:32,640
Cain for their wives, right,
right.

1377
01:14:32,960 --> 01:14:36,360
And Satan says, Adam, your
parents have taken counsel

1378
01:14:36,360 --> 01:14:38,400
together about the marriage of
you two, and they've agreed to

1379
01:14:38,400 --> 01:14:41,240
marry Abel's twin sister to thee
and thy sister to him.

1380
01:14:41,880 --> 01:14:44,360
But if it was not that I love
thee, I would not have told thee

1381
01:14:44,360 --> 01:14:47,160
this thing.
Yet if thou will take my advice

1382
01:14:47,200 --> 01:14:50,040
and hearken to me, I will bring
thee on thy wedding day,

1383
01:14:50,040 --> 01:14:54,040
beautiful robes, gold and silver
and plenty, and my relations

1384
01:14:54,040 --> 01:14:57,240
will attend thee.
Then Cain said with joy, Where

1385
01:14:57,240 --> 01:15:01,040
are thy relations?
And Satan answered, My relations

1386
01:15:01,040 --> 01:15:04,560
are in a garden to the north,
whether I once meant to bring my

1387
01:15:04,560 --> 01:15:06,760
father Adam, but he would not
accept my offer.

1388
01:15:07,120 --> 01:15:10,240
But thou, if that wilt receive
my words, and if that will come

1389
01:15:10,760 --> 01:15:15,400
unto me after thy wedding, thou
shalt rest from the misery in

1390
01:15:15,400 --> 01:15:18,440
which thou art, and thou shalt
rest and be better off than my

1391
01:15:18,440 --> 01:15:21,840
father Adam.
At these words of Satan, Cain

1392
01:15:21,840 --> 01:15:25,280
opened his ears and lent to lean
towards his speech.

1393
01:15:25,840 --> 01:15:30,640
It's interesting that you see
some very similar promises made

1394
01:15:30,640 --> 01:15:35,360
from Satan to Cain as you do
from the Savior to us, right?

1395
01:15:35,920 --> 01:15:39,440
This college are coming into my
rest right?

1396
01:15:39,800 --> 01:15:43,400
And these things are your
rewards, right?

1397
01:15:43,640 --> 01:15:45,760
You, you know, you hear
description There's many

1398
01:15:45,760 --> 01:15:49,360
mansions in my father's Kingdom.
I will bring you robes of silver

1399
01:15:49,360 --> 01:15:52,960
and gold, right?
The money, they're very similar,

1400
01:15:52,960 --> 01:15:56,200
right?
Inverted, but kind of similar,

1401
01:15:56,200 --> 01:15:58,280
right?
The the money sign is there,

1402
01:15:58,280 --> 01:16:00,560
which is, which is consistent
with what we talked about

1403
01:16:00,560 --> 01:16:02,240
earlier.
The robes is a symbol of

1404
01:16:02,240 --> 01:16:05,960
priesthood, which is consistent.
And I live in a garden just like

1405
01:16:05,960 --> 01:16:08,120
your father Adam.
But he was cast out and I

1406
01:16:08,120 --> 01:16:09,960
offered to bring him back into
the garden.

1407
01:16:10,080 --> 01:16:12,880
Yeah, garden, just like where he
was and he rejected me.

1408
01:16:12,880 --> 01:16:15,320
But I will bring you back into a
different garden.

1409
01:16:15,520 --> 01:16:17,400
Right.
You know, so that's temple

1410
01:16:17,400 --> 01:16:21,240
imagery and priesthood imagery
and and the counterfeit of

1411
01:16:21,240 --> 01:16:23,520
entering into the presence of of
the Lord in paradise.

1412
01:16:23,520 --> 01:16:26,200
All right now, now I'm going to
put on my tinfoil hat for a

1413
01:16:26,200 --> 01:16:28,120
minute.
Go for it.

1414
01:16:28,600 --> 01:16:33,000
This has caused me to wonder,
and I have thought about this

1415
01:16:33,000 --> 01:16:38,200
long and hard for people who go
truly deep dark right Hitler

1416
01:16:38,200 --> 01:16:42,640
esque kind of dark, Are there
covenants made?

1417
01:16:43,440 --> 01:16:50,880
Is there a moment at which they
enter into essentially satanic

1418
01:16:50,880 --> 01:16:53,080
covenants?
Right, secret combinations.

1419
01:16:53,080 --> 01:16:56,440
Secret combinations, all those
things, right?

1420
01:16:58,160 --> 01:17:03,280
And he plays on, on your, your
weakness, right?

1421
01:17:03,280 --> 01:17:08,200
He plays on the thing that's
most important to you that will

1422
01:17:08,680 --> 01:17:13,960
get you to to jump ship, sure to
go to his side right.

1423
01:17:14,200 --> 01:17:20,560
He's he's he's not dumb.
He he he was Lucifer, the light

1424
01:17:20,560 --> 01:17:26,480
bearer, sure right.
He's not dumb, but I when when

1425
01:17:26,480 --> 01:17:29,960
you we start looking around at
what's going on today, we take a

1426
01:17:29,960 --> 01:17:33,400
look at back at what has
happened that scripture about we

1427
01:17:33,400 --> 01:17:37,000
fight not against flesh and
bone, but against Thrones,

1428
01:17:37,000 --> 01:17:40,960
kingdoms and principalities.
I think that that becomes more

1429
01:17:40,960 --> 01:17:45,280
stark and more real, certainly
when when we get this kind of

1430
01:17:45,280 --> 01:17:48,840
background to it.
Have you ever read any of what

1431
01:17:48,840 --> 01:17:55,800
Joel Skousen says, those certain
things he says that in our days,

1432
01:17:55,800 --> 01:18:00,200
you know, for example, he, he,
he postulates is his opinion, I

1433
01:18:00,200 --> 01:18:04,280
guess, but I could see it.
Satan has made secret

1434
01:18:04,280 --> 01:18:07,560
combinations in the nations of
China, Russia and the United

1435
01:18:07,560 --> 01:18:11,000
States, and he's all promised
them the exact same thing.

1436
01:18:11,600 --> 01:18:15,680
And he's playing them all
against each other without the

1437
01:18:15,680 --> 01:18:17,480
others knowing it, seeing who
comes out on top.

1438
01:18:17,480 --> 01:18:19,440
He has no loyalty to anyone
particular one.

1439
01:18:19,440 --> 01:18:20,800
He's promised them all the same
thing.

1440
01:18:20,800 --> 01:18:25,600
He knows it's a lie, but it's to
destroy the world and which is

1441
01:18:25,600 --> 01:18:27,960
what he wants.
And they get in the meantime

1442
01:18:27,960 --> 01:18:30,480
what they're at, what they ask
him, you know, the money, the

1443
01:18:30,480 --> 01:18:33,720
whatever you know.
But it's this an interesting

1444
01:18:34,200 --> 01:18:38,400
paradigm to me that to to
realize, yeah, that probably is

1445
01:18:38,400 --> 01:18:41,640
what Satan's doing because he's
promised the same triumph to

1446
01:18:41,640 --> 01:18:46,360
different and to destroy the
gospel, to destroy the

1447
01:18:46,360 --> 01:18:50,160
restoration, to make us suffer
under unconstitutional laws

1448
01:18:50,160 --> 01:18:55,360
here, for example, where to to
stem the growth of the gospel in

1449
01:18:55,360 --> 01:18:59,040
a place like China.
You know, that that's the that's

1450
01:18:59,080 --> 01:19:01,960
part of the goal.
But they, he has no loyalty and

1451
01:19:01,960 --> 01:19:04,440
they're all assuming he's going
to back them.

1452
01:19:04,760 --> 01:19:06,160
Yeah, yeah.
To the very end.

1453
01:19:06,720 --> 01:19:11,760
The other thing I'll say, and
again, I should have been way

1454
01:19:11,760 --> 01:19:15,880
better at marking stuff when I
was younger and I didn't, but I

1455
01:19:15,880 --> 01:19:18,800
believe it was one of the prats.
It was either Orson or partly.

1456
01:19:19,240 --> 01:19:22,680
My boys.
But shortly after the Civil War,

1457
01:19:23,520 --> 01:19:27,640
one of the Pratt boys said
Lucifer's army is no longer in

1458
01:19:27,640 --> 01:19:30,360
the South.
It has moved itself to the banks

1459
01:19:30,360 --> 01:19:32,240
of the Rhine River.
Interesting.

1460
01:19:32,760 --> 01:19:34,200
It's an interesting right
because.

1461
01:19:34,200 --> 01:19:35,760
If that would have been Orson, I
think.

1462
01:19:36,000 --> 01:19:39,920
If we look at both, if we look
at where both world wars

1463
01:19:39,920 --> 01:19:43,840
essentially kind of cradled, it
was kind of along the banks of

1464
01:19:43,840 --> 01:19:48,800
the Rhine, right?
I do find it interesting that

1465
01:19:50,000 --> 01:19:54,520
after the Civil War, Orson says,
oh, he's, he's been to, he made

1466
01:19:54,520 --> 01:19:57,440
covenants here.
Obviously, right now it's time

1467
01:19:58,680 --> 01:20:02,120
time to.
He has to move his headquarters

1468
01:20:02,120 --> 01:20:05,800
essentially, and he moves it to
Germany, which I found

1469
01:20:05,960 --> 01:20:08,360
fascinating.
I don't know why or anything

1470
01:20:08,360 --> 01:20:11,520
else I've been, I've not been
able to find any commentary on

1471
01:20:11,520 --> 01:20:13,560
it.
But there's just that one blip

1472
01:20:13,800 --> 01:20:18,960
from crap, one of the prats on
on this very thing, right?

1473
01:20:19,240 --> 01:20:23,040
And so sometimes I think we look
at the struggle between light

1474
01:20:23,040 --> 01:20:28,440
and dark and we look at it in as
it's a similitude, right?

1475
01:20:29,560 --> 01:20:31,720
I think it's, I think it's
deeper than that, right?

1476
01:20:31,720 --> 01:20:35,600
I think it's more real and more
visceral than I think we're

1477
01:20:35,600 --> 01:20:41,640
sometimes comfortable admitting.
Yeah, there's a you bring to

1478
01:20:41,640 --> 01:20:46,800
mind some quotes from Nibbly.
He says something like there

1479
01:20:46,800 --> 01:20:49,760
really are two worlds and
there's a yawning gulf between

1480
01:20:49,760 --> 01:20:52,200
them, and when one comes into
contact with the other it is

1481
01:20:52,200 --> 01:20:53,600
truly shocking.
Yeah.

1482
01:20:54,000 --> 01:20:58,720
You know, and, and like, why is
the words that comes out of an

1483
01:20:58,720 --> 01:21:01,160
angel's mouth always fear not,
right?

1484
01:21:01,160 --> 01:21:03,840
Because it's shocking.
The light is shocking because we

1485
01:21:03,840 --> 01:21:05,520
are living in darkness.
Right.

1486
01:21:06,280 --> 01:21:11,320
Yeah, yeah, I think, I think
that this again, we're still

1487
01:21:11,320 --> 01:21:12,600
fighting the same battle.
Oh, yeah.

1488
01:21:12,600 --> 01:21:16,120
Yeah, absolutely.
All right.

1489
01:21:17,040 --> 01:21:22,720
All right.
Back to the notes, rhetorical or

1490
01:21:22,720 --> 01:21:28,880
literary literary connections
between or four being denied the

1491
01:21:28,880 --> 01:21:34,640
presence of the Lord because
Cain's commentary in his

1492
01:21:34,640 --> 01:21:37,560
dialogue with the Lord after the
murder of Abel was Behold, thou

1493
01:21:37,560 --> 01:21:40,280
has driven me out of about this
day from the face of the Lord,

1494
01:21:40,360 --> 01:21:42,200
and from thy face shall I be
hid.

1495
01:21:45,760 --> 01:21:48,120
So forth and so on.
He'll be a fugitive of Vagabond.

1496
01:21:48,600 --> 01:21:50,800
And the Lord said unto him,
Whosoever slayeth thee,

1497
01:21:50,800 --> 01:21:52,840
vengeance shall be taken on him
sevenfold.

1498
01:21:52,840 --> 01:21:55,720
And I the Lord, set a mark upon
Cain, lest any finding him

1499
01:21:55,720 --> 01:21:57,760
should kill him.
And Cain was shut out from the

1500
01:21:57,760 --> 01:22:01,960
presence of the Lord, and with
his wife and his brethren.

1501
01:22:02,320 --> 01:22:06,440
Now so connecting the shut out
from the presence of the Lord

1502
01:22:06,560 --> 01:22:10,920
with priesthood.
Priesthood brings you into what?

1503
01:22:11,400 --> 01:22:16,160
The presence of the Lord.
Yeah, Section 84 says without

1504
01:22:16,160 --> 01:22:18,800
the ordinances thereof and the
authority of the priesthood.

1505
01:22:19,240 --> 01:22:21,000
So he can claim the ordinance is
all he wants.

1506
01:22:21,000 --> 01:22:25,480
But if he's he's lost his
priesthood, the continues the

1507
01:22:25,480 --> 01:22:27,960
power of godliness is not
manifest unto men in the flesh

1508
01:22:27,960 --> 01:22:29,480
without the authority and the
ordinances.

1509
01:22:29,720 --> 01:22:32,520
For without this no man can see
the face of God, even the

1510
01:22:32,520 --> 01:22:35,240
Father, and live, but the
children of Israel harden their

1511
01:22:35,240 --> 01:22:37,160
hearts and could not endure His
presence.

1512
01:22:38,000 --> 01:22:40,840
Right.
Therefore the Lord, and His

1513
01:22:40,840 --> 01:22:43,440
wrath for his anger was kindled
against them, swore that they

1514
01:22:43,440 --> 01:22:46,200
should not enter into His rest
while in the wilderness, which

1515
01:22:46,200 --> 01:22:47,760
rest is the fullness of His
glory.

1516
01:22:48,400 --> 01:22:50,040
And so that's what Cain is
saying.

1517
01:22:50,040 --> 01:22:52,240
He's shut out from the presence
of the Lord, the fullness of His

1518
01:22:52,240 --> 01:22:55,320
glory.
Alma 13, verse 16.

1519
01:22:55,560 --> 01:22:58,720
Now these ordinances were given
after this manner that thereby

1520
01:22:58,720 --> 01:23:01,840
the people might look forward on
the Son of God, it being a type

1521
01:23:01,840 --> 01:23:06,280
of His order and this, that they
might look forward to Him for a

1522
01:23:06,280 --> 01:23:09,240
mission of their sins that they
might enter into the rest of the

1523
01:23:09,240 --> 01:23:18,720
Lord.
So that's pretty strong, this

1524
01:23:18,720 --> 01:23:21,760
correlation back to the
priesthood, back to the books of

1525
01:23:21,760 --> 01:23:24,520
Adam and Eve.
Actually, maybe we'll skip that.

1526
01:23:26,680 --> 01:23:31,440
This is also an interesting
parallel that I considered, and

1527
01:23:31,440 --> 01:23:33,440
I wish that there was more
commentary on this, but it's

1528
01:23:33,440 --> 01:23:37,680
fascinating.
After Cain is removed to the

1529
01:23:37,680 --> 01:23:41,680
land of Nod, it says Cain knew
his wife and she conceived and

1530
01:23:41,680 --> 01:23:44,960
bear Enoch.
And he also begat many sons and

1531
01:23:44,960 --> 01:23:47,760
daughters and he builded a city
and he called the name of the

1532
01:23:47,760 --> 01:23:52,400
city after his son Enoch.
And unta Enoch was born Irad and

1533
01:23:52,400 --> 01:23:55,160
he had other sons and daughters.
And then it goes and lists the

1534
01:23:55,600 --> 01:24:00,840
the posterity until 7
generations from Adam.

1535
01:24:01,040 --> 01:24:04,480
Right.
So what does that mean?

1536
01:24:04,560 --> 01:24:08,280
There's two cities of Enoch.
That's interesting.

1537
01:24:08,320 --> 01:24:14,840
That is interesting.
And because so you you see

1538
01:24:15,920 --> 01:24:21,520
agrarianism in the beginning and
Abel's keeping the sheep, Cain's

1539
01:24:21,520 --> 01:24:26,280
tilling the ground agrarianism,
but because the Lord cursed him

1540
01:24:26,760 --> 01:24:30,800
that he won't be able to persist
in that vocation.

1541
01:24:30,960 --> 01:24:34,400
Anymore.
He then establishes the first

1542
01:24:34,600 --> 01:24:42,240
city, the first commerce, the
1st Babylon, but it's also the

1543
01:24:42,240 --> 01:24:45,080
inverted Zion, and it's also a
city of Enoch.

1544
01:24:45,360 --> 01:24:47,480
Now, now.
OK, So what?

1545
01:24:47,480 --> 01:24:49,320
What book does this come from?
Where?

1546
01:24:49,320 --> 01:24:51,280
Where he establishes the city?
Where?

1547
01:24:51,280 --> 01:24:54,440
That's the book of Moses.
See, that's so interesting

1548
01:24:54,440 --> 01:24:57,760
because in the in the Genesis
account, if I'm not mistaken,

1549
01:24:57,960 --> 01:24:59,960
he's made to be a wanderer in a
Vagabond.

1550
01:25:00,160 --> 01:25:01,800
It says that too, but it also
does say that.

1551
01:25:01,920 --> 01:25:05,040
I, I think it actually says that
Enoch, maybe in Genesis this

1552
01:25:05,040 --> 01:25:07,520
says Enoch, Cain's son built the
city.

1553
01:25:07,880 --> 01:25:09,520
OK, might say that, I don't
recall.

1554
01:25:09,520 --> 01:25:12,640
OK, but in the case there is a
city built, it does come through

1555
01:25:12,640 --> 01:25:15,040
Cain's line where it's the
rejection of the, the

1556
01:25:15,040 --> 01:25:18,360
agrarianism, which I believe to
be the foundation of, of the

1557
01:25:18,360 --> 01:25:20,480
Lord's people of Zion.
I think sure.

1558
01:25:20,800 --> 01:25:23,560
Not that you can't live, you
know.

1559
01:25:23,880 --> 01:25:27,120
Yeah, town or.
You know, but if we if we look

1560
01:25:27,120 --> 01:25:30,320
at Platts of Zion, right?
And as a surveyor, I nerd out on

1561
01:25:30,320 --> 01:25:34,560
that, right, you had kind of the
best of both worlds, right?

1562
01:25:34,880 --> 01:25:37,360
Because on the inside.
You're the Civic Center.

1563
01:25:37,400 --> 01:25:41,000
You, you have the Civic Center,
you have homes right where you

1564
01:25:41,000 --> 01:25:47,000
can enjoy the benefits of living
in a quasi urban environment.

1565
01:25:47,320 --> 01:25:50,720
And then on the outskirts you
had all the farmland and all the

1566
01:25:50,720 --> 01:25:52,200
cattle operations and those
things.

1567
01:25:52,200 --> 01:25:58,600
And it was, it was meant to
essentially 111 settlement was

1568
01:25:58,600 --> 01:26:01,480
meant to accommodate about
10,000 people, right.

1569
01:26:01,480 --> 01:26:04,160
And then about that Mark, the
thought was, OK, now we'll go

1570
01:26:04,160 --> 01:26:06,040
build another one.
Did you ever find and?

1571
01:26:06,040 --> 01:26:07,200
Then we'll build another one of
these.

1572
01:26:07,280 --> 01:26:10,640
As a surveyor, I heard from an
engineer who was interested in

1573
01:26:10,640 --> 01:26:12,040
history.
Oh, you can't trust engineers.

1574
01:26:12,080 --> 01:26:13,120
No, you, you need.
You need.

1575
01:26:13,120 --> 01:26:14,760
To talk.
So that's, that's why I'm asking

1576
01:26:14,800 --> 01:26:18,040
you, right?
But he said that similar ideas

1577
01:26:18,040 --> 01:26:21,880
were postulated by Jefferson.
So, Jefferson, no, this is

1578
01:26:21,880 --> 01:26:22,920
different.
OK.

1579
01:26:22,920 --> 01:26:24,920
So Jefferson comes up the
modern.

1580
01:26:25,520 --> 01:26:28,560
Sorry, OK.
So we're into it now.

1581
01:26:29,480 --> 01:26:32,720
My bad.
All right, survey history one O

1582
01:26:32,720 --> 01:26:36,000
1 before Jefferson comes up with
his idea.

1583
01:26:36,240 --> 01:26:39,920
OK, Land is surveyed by what's
called meets and bounds.

1584
01:26:40,080 --> 01:26:43,280
OK, so in the 13 original
colonies, it's still this way.

1585
01:26:43,720 --> 01:26:48,680
OK, So what will happen is you
will start at a point starting

1586
01:26:48,720 --> 01:26:52,880
at where Jack shot the bear on
this day.

1587
01:26:53,160 --> 01:26:58,840
Then you go 13 .6 rods to the
center of a Creek bed, then

1588
01:26:58,840 --> 01:27:02,280
follow the cart path for 26 1/2
rods, right?

1589
01:27:02,280 --> 01:27:04,080
And that's how land is
transferred, right?

1590
01:27:04,080 --> 01:27:06,720
That's the way Europe did it.
That's the way it was happening

1591
01:27:06,720 --> 01:27:11,080
in 13 original colonies.
Jefferson has this idea, and

1592
01:27:11,360 --> 01:27:16,440
this is going to blow your mind.
Why don't we divide land up into

1593
01:27:16,440 --> 01:27:19,360
mile squares?
OK, so there's what's called a

1594
01:27:19,360 --> 01:27:26,120
Township and a range, which is 6
sections wide going east to West

1595
01:27:26,120 --> 01:27:31,280
and six sections north to South.
36 sections within a Township

1596
01:27:31,280 --> 01:27:37,480
and range 36 miles squared.
Now Jefferson's idea was if we

1597
01:27:37,480 --> 01:27:42,800
do this well, nobody will screw
with with moving borders around

1598
01:27:42,920 --> 01:27:46,920
so people won't like Jerry
Meander.

1599
01:27:47,320 --> 01:27:50,000
He didn't use that word, but
that's essentially what he's

1600
01:27:50,000 --> 01:27:51,600
trying to prevent.
The voting districts.

1601
01:27:51,600 --> 01:27:54,920
The voting districts, right,
because the thought being is and

1602
01:27:54,920 --> 01:28:00,720
because the founders were like
the, the, the the government

1603
01:28:00,720 --> 01:28:03,040
closest to the people is the
best, right?

1604
01:28:03,280 --> 01:28:05,520
So the thought was, oh, this
will be perfect.

1605
01:28:05,520 --> 01:28:08,080
These will be voting districts.
You can't mess with them, right?

1606
01:28:08,120 --> 01:28:11,560
Because it's how land is laid
out in the West, which is true,

1607
01:28:12,200 --> 01:28:13,920
but politicians ignored it
anyway.

1608
01:28:14,480 --> 01:28:17,400
But yeah, no.
So from your section, you would

1609
01:28:17,400 --> 01:28:21,000
elect a representative, your
representative would then go to

1610
01:28:21,000 --> 01:28:23,640
the Township and then the
Township to the county, and then

1611
01:28:23,640 --> 01:28:27,000
it would start stacking, right.
And it was also a thought that

1612
01:28:27,000 --> 01:28:30,880
it would work in descending
order in case of collapse,

1613
01:28:31,000 --> 01:28:32,320
right?
Is that OK?

1614
01:28:32,320 --> 01:28:37,440
Federal, state, county, city.
Well, you can always go back to

1615
01:28:37,440 --> 01:28:40,000
your Township in your range,
right in your section.

1616
01:28:40,280 --> 01:28:42,560
I like it.
So that's that was Jefferson's

1617
01:28:42,560 --> 01:28:48,400
idea and it was mainly geared
around let's not let politicians

1618
01:28:48,400 --> 01:28:50,640
screw with the voting district,
OK, This is a so the.

1619
01:28:50,640 --> 01:28:52,400
Similarities about the mile
square thing.

1620
01:28:52,400 --> 01:28:54,040
Yes, that's it.
That's all.

1621
01:28:54,040 --> 01:28:55,640
That's similar there with the
city.

1622
01:28:55,640 --> 01:28:59,880
Jefferson had different ideas.
Although I I want to say this in

1623
01:28:59,880 --> 01:29:02,000
a book by Skousen called Brother
Joseph.

1624
01:29:02,000 --> 01:29:05,120
It's a series of books.
In the first books, Jefferson

1625
01:29:05,120 --> 01:29:10,560
does make towards the end of his
life a very interesting prophecy

1626
01:29:10,560 --> 01:29:14,480
where he says I see someone from
the American continent coming

1627
01:29:14,480 --> 01:29:20,280
forth to restore the the true
principles of Christianity.

1628
01:29:21,880 --> 01:29:24,320
In fact, I I got it, I'm just
going to go get it so I can read

1629
01:29:24,320 --> 01:29:26,600
it and not butcher it.
Oh yeah, go for it.

1630
01:29:26,600 --> 01:29:29,120
Maybe I'll take a break here.
Oh yeah, let's let's just pause

1631
01:29:29,120 --> 01:29:30,760
this real quick.
I love it.

1632
01:29:30,760 --> 01:29:33,000
I wasn't expecting to go into
that, but I think that's

1633
01:29:33,320 --> 01:29:35,320
fascinating.
Stuff.

1634
01:29:35,320 --> 01:29:38,480
All right, so this comes from
Brother Joseph by Richard and

1635
01:29:38,480 --> 01:29:42,320
Cleon's cousin, and this is
called the modern prophecy.

1636
01:29:43,520 --> 01:29:46,120
Very few people know.
Brother Joseph also fulfilled

1637
01:29:46,120 --> 01:29:49,160
the prophecy that Thomas
Jefferson made late in his life.

1638
01:29:49,160 --> 01:29:53,920
In 1820, a rather significant
year after Jefferson had retired

1639
01:29:53,920 --> 01:29:56,120
as President of the United
States, he made a prophetic

1640
01:29:56,120 --> 01:30:00,840
statement in a letter to his
friend Jared Sparks, now quoting

1641
01:30:00,840 --> 01:30:03,640
Jefferson.
I hold the precepts of Jesus, as

1642
01:30:03,640 --> 01:30:06,320
delivered by Himself to be the
most pure, benevolent, and

1643
01:30:06,320 --> 01:30:08,800
sublime which have ever been
preached to man.

1644
01:30:09,240 --> 01:30:11,840
I adhere to the principles of
the first stage, and consider

1645
01:30:11,840 --> 01:30:15,320
all subsequent innovations as
corruptions of religion having

1646
01:30:15,320 --> 01:30:18,000
no foundation, and what came
from Him.

1647
01:30:18,880 --> 01:30:22,200
If the freedom of religion
guaranteed to us by the law in

1648
01:30:22,200 --> 01:30:25,840
theory can ever rise in
practice, truth will prevail

1649
01:30:25,840 --> 01:30:30,000
over fanaticism and genuine and
the genuine doctrines of Jesus,

1650
01:30:30,000 --> 01:30:34,040
so long perverted by pseudo
priests will again be restored

1651
01:30:34,360 --> 01:30:39,680
to their original purity.
But too late for me to witness

1652
01:30:39,680 --> 01:30:43,720
it.
Jefferson knew and, and this

1653
01:30:43,720 --> 01:30:45,400
this goes back to something
else.

1654
01:30:46,080 --> 01:30:49,880
The founders absolutely knew
that something else was at hand

1655
01:30:49,880 --> 01:30:53,760
in America.
George Washington was given a

1656
01:30:54,160 --> 01:30:57,320
magnificent opportunity by the
king of England, where the king

1657
01:30:57,320 --> 01:31:01,080
was basically willing to say,
we'll let you govern yourselves,

1658
01:31:01,760 --> 01:31:04,320
We'll forgive the tax debt.
You just pay us a little bit of

1659
01:31:04,320 --> 01:31:07,480
tax going forward and it's hands
off.

1660
01:31:08,080 --> 01:31:11,160
And Washington at this point,
that would have been a win for

1661
01:31:11,160 --> 01:31:15,680
the colonists, right?
But and it would have given them

1662
01:31:15,680 --> 01:31:18,080
a path to be completely
autonomous, right?

1663
01:31:18,600 --> 01:31:20,280
But it wasn't good enough for
Washington.

1664
01:31:20,280 --> 01:31:23,320
Washington was different, was
convicted in a different way at

1665
01:31:23,320 --> 01:31:25,840
that point where he's like, no,
it is hands off.

1666
01:31:25,840 --> 01:31:31,280
Now we are going to be 100%
economist from Great Britain.

1667
01:31:31,720 --> 01:31:37,520
So going back to Jefferson's
ideas, Jefferson gets painted as

1668
01:31:37,520 --> 01:31:42,520
a guy who's not very religious.
And I will say that that I have

1669
01:31:42,520 --> 01:31:46,480
to concede that he wasn't overly
churchy, sure, but he had a deep

1670
01:31:46,480 --> 01:31:50,040
abiding respect for the Savior.
But he wasn't churchy because he

1671
01:31:50,040 --> 01:31:53,400
hated sectarianism.
Exactly the pseudo priests.

1672
01:31:53,400 --> 01:31:56,560
I mean he's very he's very
pointed in his comments.

1673
01:31:58,040 --> 01:32:00,760
And again, the year I too
bounce.

1674
01:32:00,760 --> 01:32:04,560
Fascinating, 1820. 20 So that is
and he, he noted that and I

1675
01:32:04,560 --> 01:32:07,520
thought on to that.
I once mentioned to my father

1676
01:32:08,480 --> 01:32:12,520
the you know, knowing that the,
the plot of Zion would give you

1677
01:32:12,520 --> 01:32:15,560
10,000 people or so I said,
yeah, that's probably a good

1678
01:32:15,560 --> 01:32:19,200
limit for a city or whatever.
My dad not, I don't think he was

1679
01:32:19,200 --> 01:32:21,280
trying to undermine what Joseph
Smith was planning or anything

1680
01:32:21,280 --> 01:32:23,280
like that, but he but he made a
very interesting comment

1681
01:32:24,760 --> 01:32:27,240
sociologically.
He said.

1682
01:32:27,240 --> 01:32:31,280
I don't think humans are meant
to live in towns or communities

1683
01:32:31,640 --> 01:32:34,480
that are big enough that you
can, if you have a bad

1684
01:32:34,480 --> 01:32:38,040
reputation, you can move to
another part of the town and be

1685
01:32:38,120 --> 01:32:41,880
anonymous and sure over again.
Sure.

1686
01:32:42,280 --> 01:32:44,160
Yeah, which that was a good
point.

1687
01:32:44,440 --> 01:32:47,040
Yeah, yeah.
If we look at just the Plat of

1688
01:32:47,040 --> 01:32:51,520
Zion though it does it does
resemble what Jefferson was

1689
01:32:51,520 --> 01:32:53,600
doing.
So that engineer was quasi right

1690
01:32:53,600 --> 01:32:55,160
for different reasons.
Oh, sure.

1691
01:32:55,480 --> 01:32:55,960
No.
But yeah.

1692
01:32:55,960 --> 01:32:59,200
So yeah, I just, I'm a firm
believer in agrarianism and the

1693
01:32:59,880 --> 01:33:01,880
anti city life.
And I've lived in some of the

1694
01:33:01,880 --> 01:33:04,320
biggest cities in the world.
I've lived in Hong Kong and

1695
01:33:04,680 --> 01:33:07,800
loved.
But it's also kind of dismal to

1696
01:33:07,800 --> 01:33:09,840
see that many people stacked on
top of each other.

1697
01:33:09,960 --> 01:33:12,400
Magnificent as far as the
engineering and the beauty and

1698
01:33:12,400 --> 01:33:15,400
all that.
Yeah, I I don't think Zion would

1699
01:33:15,400 --> 01:33:17,080
necessarily be high rise
apartments.

1700
01:33:17,080 --> 01:33:19,200
No, Zion, Zion's not going to
look like Las Vegas.

1701
01:33:19,280 --> 01:33:20,640
Right.
No, it's not going to be high

1702
01:33:20,640 --> 01:33:24,600
rise apartments.
It's going to be homes, shops,

1703
01:33:25,120 --> 01:33:28,120
right with with agriculture on
the outskirts.

1704
01:33:28,120 --> 01:33:30,640
That's not my words.
That's the way Joseph set it up.

1705
01:33:32,720 --> 01:33:36,960
And so they, they have to, you
have to look at that in, in that

1706
01:33:36,960 --> 01:33:39,920
way.
And even within that urban life,

1707
01:33:39,920 --> 01:33:43,080
if you want to call it urban,
even you get the feeling it's

1708
01:33:43,080 --> 01:33:45,400
less urban and more region,
right?

1709
01:33:45,720 --> 01:33:49,240
It's not urban as we would just
decipher it today.

1710
01:33:49,560 --> 01:33:51,600
Yeah, it's interesting.
And some apocrypha, you know,

1711
01:33:51,640 --> 01:33:54,600
because I'm imagining based off
this that Cain is really

1712
01:33:54,600 --> 01:33:57,480
counterfeiting Zion.
But he's making the first

1713
01:33:57,480 --> 01:34:00,320
metropolis.
Yeah, with whatever that would

1714
01:34:00,320 --> 01:34:02,680
look like, with whatever the
population count at that day

1715
01:34:02,680 --> 01:34:04,840
would be like, right.
And it's growing steadily.

1716
01:34:04,840 --> 01:34:07,080
You know, they had over 1000
years before the flood wipes it

1717
01:34:07,080 --> 01:34:07,960
out.
Whatever, right.

1718
01:34:07,960 --> 01:34:13,200
So it's going to get pretty big,
but it's interesting that in the

1719
01:34:13,200 --> 01:34:16,520
apocryphal, one of the
apocryphal legends, Cain dies

1720
01:34:16,520 --> 01:34:18,760
because the great house that he
built for himself, he built this

1721
01:34:18,800 --> 01:34:23,160
massive mansion made of stone.
And the poetic justice was that

1722
01:34:23,160 --> 01:34:26,240
because you killed your brother
Abel with a stone, the house

1723
01:34:26,240 --> 01:34:29,000
fell on it and he was killed,
and he was killed by stone.

1724
01:34:29,080 --> 01:34:31,520
Bidding, bidding, yeah.
And that's one story.

1725
01:34:31,520 --> 01:34:33,920
There's other stories about how
he dies too that we'll probably

1726
01:34:33,920 --> 01:34:36,320
actually get into.
Well, which I think is more

1727
01:34:36,320 --> 01:34:38,280
accurate.
And, and I think it's worth

1728
01:34:38,280 --> 01:34:44,680
pointing out, even today, right,
in order to, to get people to

1729
01:34:44,680 --> 01:34:47,480
submit, they have to be
condensed.

1730
01:34:47,560 --> 01:34:51,440
You can't have them spread out.
That lends itself to rebellion

1731
01:34:51,440 --> 01:34:54,720
and to independent.
No, I have to go to Isaiah

1732
01:34:56,040 --> 01:34:59,200
before we move on.
OK, no, that's good, dude.

1733
01:34:59,200 --> 01:35:00,720
That's what we do.
That's what we do.

1734
01:35:00,880 --> 01:35:03,640
That's what we do every time.
We start somewhere and we go

1735
01:35:03,640 --> 01:35:08,200
somewhere else and we come back.
But he talks about this

1736
01:35:09,160 --> 01:35:12,480
agrarianism a lot and not living
in cities.

1737
01:35:12,640 --> 01:35:20,360
Isaiah's anti anti city and you
know, talks about how it's going

1738
01:35:20,360 --> 01:35:21,600
to be a problem in the last
days.

1739
01:35:21,600 --> 01:35:26,840
Actually even Isaiah chapter 5,
Woe unto them that join house to

1740
01:35:26,840 --> 01:35:30,320
house, that lay field to field
till there be no place left,

1741
01:35:30,560 --> 01:35:33,960
that they may be placed alone in
the midst of the earth.

1742
01:35:35,400 --> 01:35:38,240
Abraham Giliotti rendered that a
little different.

1743
01:35:38,240 --> 01:35:41,800
But woe unto them to join house
to house, like field to field.

1744
01:35:41,800 --> 01:35:45,800
I think he said link fence to
fence, that there be no place

1745
01:35:45,800 --> 01:35:48,600
left and you'd be cut off in the
center of the land with no

1746
01:35:48,600 --> 01:35:56,200
escape.
Yeah, yeah, there's there's a

1747
01:35:56,200 --> 01:35:58,600
lot to this.
And as a surveyor, I see it

1748
01:35:58,920 --> 01:36:02,160
right.
I see that there's been a change

1749
01:36:02,160 --> 01:36:09,760
in the last 20 years of planning
and zoning wanting to condense,

1750
01:36:09,920 --> 01:36:12,320
right.
The 15 minute City the. 15

1751
01:36:12,320 --> 01:36:14,720
minute city thing, right?
That I know sounds like a

1752
01:36:14,720 --> 01:36:17,400
conspiracy theory, but I'm
telling you, I've seen sure

1753
01:36:17,560 --> 01:36:18,960
right?
I've seen the plants.

1754
01:36:18,960 --> 01:36:20,400
Let's see the Wasatch.
Front.

1755
01:36:20,680 --> 01:36:22,960
It's right.
What's fitting is is they want

1756
01:36:22,960 --> 01:36:27,000
to build it where the old state
penitentiary was is is where

1757
01:36:27,000 --> 01:36:28,640
that thing's going in
interesting.

1758
01:36:28,880 --> 01:36:32,800
And yeah, it's, it's a little
spooky, right?

1759
01:36:33,920 --> 01:36:36,480
But this is always kind of the
plans for people who want power.

1760
01:36:36,600 --> 01:36:39,920
You got to gather them in and
they're easier to manipulate in

1761
01:36:39,920 --> 01:36:42,480
a herd, so to speak.
Absolutely.

1762
01:36:43,560 --> 01:36:46,440
And we see that with Cain
apparently and and Cain's

1763
01:36:46,440 --> 01:36:49,520
offspring.
You set up the city at the the

1764
01:36:49,520 --> 01:36:51,960
entrance of the Garden of Eden.
Yeah.

1765
01:36:54,640 --> 01:37:00,000
Let's see, let's go into some
more nibbly on that topic, he

1766
01:37:00,000 --> 01:37:03,600
says.
They separated, of course, when

1767
01:37:03,600 --> 01:37:06,040
Kane had to leave because the
land wouldn't yield for him.

1768
01:37:06,320 --> 01:37:09,040
Since they couldn't cultivate,
they went into city building and

1769
01:37:09,040 --> 01:37:11,000
bank and banking and things like
that.

1770
01:37:11,000 --> 01:37:13,400
That's what they did.
There are good descriptions of

1771
01:37:13,400 --> 01:37:15,760
how they started.
He invented the money, etcetera.

1772
01:37:15,840 --> 01:37:19,080
Tubal, Kane and Ubel invent the
instruments and have real rock

1773
01:37:19,080 --> 01:37:20,480
music, and they dance all the
time.

1774
01:37:20,960 --> 01:37:23,200
They're in a heavy business.
They go into jewelry and

1775
01:37:23,200 --> 01:37:27,560
investments of all sorts.
Enoch, the son of Kane,

1776
01:37:27,800 --> 01:37:30,400
establishes the first walled
city in the 1st Army.

1777
01:37:30,760 --> 01:37:33,520
And down the line we go.
It's the two civilizations, the

1778
01:37:33,520 --> 01:37:36,880
pastor, the pastorals up in the
Highlands on the mountains.

1779
01:37:37,200 --> 01:37:40,560
They are the Sethians, it says.
They live in the holy places.

1780
01:37:41,160 --> 01:37:43,840
Their main center is called the
Mountain of The Cave of

1781
01:37:43,840 --> 01:37:46,200
Treasures, being the hill
Kimura, where they keep all

1782
01:37:46,200 --> 01:37:47,840
their records and their sacred
things.

1783
01:37:48,240 --> 01:37:51,320
But we get into this picture of
the Sethians, who are living

1784
01:37:51,320 --> 01:37:54,520
righteously in the Highlands,
and the people of the plain with

1785
01:37:54,520 --> 01:37:57,680
their licentious easy ways.
This, of course, is the pattern

1786
01:37:57,680 --> 01:38:00,640
of Babylon.
Remember, Mesopotamia is the

1787
01:38:00,640 --> 01:38:04,480
flat, steamy plain, very, very
lush, like Sodom and Gomorrah.

1788
01:38:04,480 --> 01:38:08,000
When you get to Abraham.
So these two lines separate, and

1789
01:38:08,000 --> 01:38:10,840
the holy ones are left alone on
the holy mountain, things go

1790
01:38:10,840 --> 01:38:12,800
bad.
You will notice secret works.

1791
01:38:12,800 --> 01:38:16,520
Every man knew his brother and
what are they going to do about

1792
01:38:16,520 --> 01:38:19,240
it?
We get to the Sethian line here

1793
01:38:19,240 --> 01:38:20,960
in chapter 6.
This is the way it goes.

1794
01:38:20,960 --> 01:38:23,200
It's Adam and Seth and Enos and
Canaan.

1795
01:38:23,440 --> 01:38:26,600
First Adam, which means man.
Remember Abel was killed and

1796
01:38:26,600 --> 01:38:29,720
Seth becomes his son.
Then Seth means second or

1797
01:38:29,720 --> 01:38:34,560
substitute or equal.
Sheeta means the same thing as 2

1798
01:38:34,560 --> 01:38:37,920
double twin because it tells us
the scripture in the scriptures

1799
01:38:37,920 --> 01:38:39,200
that he will take the place of
Abel.

1800
01:38:39,960 --> 01:38:43,720
The line of Adam from now on
doesn't run through through Adam

1801
01:38:43,880 --> 01:38:46,120
to Cain.
It runs through Adam to Seth,

1802
01:38:46,160 --> 01:38:48,360
the Sethian line.
This is a parallel line.

1803
01:38:48,360 --> 01:38:51,320
They have names that sound alike
but aren't alike.

1804
01:38:51,800 --> 01:38:54,280
So we have Adam and then Cain,
then Enoch of all people.

1805
01:38:54,320 --> 01:38:56,080
You wouldn't expect an Enoch to
be there.

1806
01:38:56,440 --> 01:38:58,840
Then you have Adam and Seth,
which means the second Adam.

1807
01:38:59,240 --> 01:39:01,640
The next one.
Enos means exactly the same

1808
01:39:01,640 --> 01:39:03,800
thing as Adam.
That means the IT means human

1809
01:39:03,800 --> 01:39:06,000
being or man.
In Hebrew today, if you call a

1810
01:39:06,000 --> 01:39:09,760
person a human being, you can
either call him, you can say Ben

1811
01:39:09,760 --> 01:39:13,480
Adam, son of man, son of Adam,
or Ben Inoch, which is the same

1812
01:39:13,480 --> 01:39:15,680
as Enoch.
We're just getting human race,

1813
01:39:15,680 --> 01:39:17,480
human race, human race all along
here.

1814
01:39:17,760 --> 01:39:19,480
So then we get Enos and then
Canaan.

1815
01:39:19,800 --> 01:39:22,960
The eighth verse of chapter 6 is
very important here because the

1816
01:39:22,960 --> 01:39:26,000
5th chapter of Genesis begins
like this and it should be

1817
01:39:26,000 --> 01:39:29,200
corrected.
It says, and this was the book

1818
01:39:29,200 --> 01:39:32,160
of the generations of Adam that
should be capitalized because

1819
01:39:32,160 --> 01:39:34,560
that's the title.
It says at the beginning of the

1820
01:39:34,560 --> 01:39:37,800
5th.
Oh, sorry, and the generations

1821
01:39:37,800 --> 01:39:41,960
of Adam and Eve are Seth, Enos,
etcetera, not Adam, Cain or

1822
01:39:41,960 --> 01:39:43,400
Abel.
That's not the line.

1823
01:39:43,400 --> 01:39:46,760
So when we talk about Benny,
Adam or the sons of Adam, this

1824
01:39:46,760 --> 01:39:49,640
is what we're talking about.
God made him in His own image.

1825
01:39:50,000 --> 01:39:53,120
And then here again in Genesis,
He sets them apart, both male

1826
01:39:53,120 --> 01:39:55,240
and female, specific of His own
body.

1827
01:39:55,680 --> 01:39:57,480
Then He blessed them and gave
them a new name.

1828
01:39:57,480 --> 01:40:01,280
He gave them the name of Adam.
Now that starts the new line.

1829
01:40:01,360 --> 01:40:03,360
Then the books were opened at
that time.

1830
01:40:03,360 --> 01:40:05,760
It tells us this is the book of
the generations of Adam.

1831
01:40:07,120 --> 01:40:10,480
But Seth is the double notice in
his own likeness after his own

1832
01:40:10,480 --> 01:40:14,320
image and called his name Seth.
It means looks just like me.

1833
01:40:14,400 --> 01:40:16,360
It means a mirror image or a
reflection.

1834
01:40:16,360 --> 01:40:20,080
Seth means the second person.
SATA in Egyptian as well as

1835
01:40:20,080 --> 01:40:22,720
Hebrew means to take the place
of or to replace.

1836
01:40:24,320 --> 01:40:26,480
This is the story they tell
between the Sethians and the

1837
01:40:26,480 --> 01:40:28,680
Canines.
They go on the descendants of

1838
01:40:28,680 --> 01:40:30,760
Seth and and the descendants of
Cain.

1839
01:40:31,160 --> 01:40:33,720
Their cultures have different
traditions, but the canines win

1840
01:40:33,720 --> 01:40:36,360
hands down.
There's no contest here at all.

1841
01:40:36,360 --> 01:40:39,000
That happened over many years.
However, they tell us how it

1842
01:40:39,000 --> 01:40:40,360
happened.
The plains had a great

1843
01:40:40,360 --> 01:40:43,080
attraction for the more simple
living people of the high

1844
01:40:43,080 --> 01:40:45,520
places.
They naturally were enticed.

1845
01:40:45,520 --> 01:40:48,280
Satan took charge below.
He made a covenant.

1846
01:40:48,440 --> 01:40:50,720
They talk a lot about the
covenant, how he directed them

1847
01:40:50,720 --> 01:40:53,640
and gave them the jewelry and
the beautiful clothes and loud,

1848
01:40:54,080 --> 01:40:57,200
loud instruments.
He specialized in brass bands.

1849
01:40:57,240 --> 01:40:59,560
This would attract the attention
of the young people up on the

1850
01:40:59,560 --> 01:41:01,480
heights.
Then come down and look with

1851
01:41:01,480 --> 01:41:03,880
some envy at all the fun that
was going on down there in the

1852
01:41:03,880 --> 01:41:06,080
plane.
All the lights, the dancing and

1853
01:41:06,080 --> 01:41:10,960
carousing after Canaan then and
Mahal Allele.

1854
01:41:11,040 --> 01:41:13,840
Then comes Jared.
His name means going down

1855
01:41:13,840 --> 01:41:15,680
because that was the day when
they went down from the

1856
01:41:15,680 --> 01:41:18,440
mountain.
They left it, Jared told told

1857
01:41:18,440 --> 01:41:20,080
his sons.
If you ever go down there,

1858
01:41:20,120 --> 01:41:22,640
you'll never get back.
At first they didn't know.

1859
01:41:23,440 --> 01:41:24,760
They didn't know the way down
South.

1860
01:41:24,760 --> 01:41:26,960
Satan had to teach them.
He actually comes up in the

1861
01:41:26,960 --> 01:41:31,680
books of Adam and Eve up to the
mountain like Amalekaya and in

1862
01:41:31,680 --> 01:41:34,680
the in the Book of Mormon,
right, and comes and entices

1863
01:41:34,680 --> 01:41:37,960
them.
Anyways, Satan actually came

1864
01:41:37,960 --> 01:41:40,120
with a delegation of very
important looking people.

1865
01:41:40,120 --> 01:41:43,560
He came up and invited Jared.
Come down, brother Jared, and

1866
01:41:43,560 --> 01:41:46,680
visit us in the city down below.
You'll see what a nice society

1867
01:41:46,680 --> 01:41:49,680
we have and you will love to
stay with us.

1868
01:41:49,920 --> 01:41:53,120
You'll see what it's like.
He was curious, so he went down

1869
01:41:53,120 --> 01:41:55,200
with them.
They dressed up like angels and

1870
01:41:55,200 --> 01:41:57,600
they fooled him.
He actually was fooled until he

1871
01:41:57,600 --> 01:41:59,840
got back home and they and an
Angel came and pulled him.

1872
01:41:59,840 --> 01:42:02,320
Look, this is terrible.
You've been LED astray.

1873
01:42:02,320 --> 01:42:05,720
Don't let your people do this.
Satan showed them a way down.

1874
01:42:05,840 --> 01:42:10,920
There was a gully where a stream
went down and you can get down

1875
01:42:10,920 --> 01:42:13,760
that way.
They started drifting down and

1876
01:42:13,760 --> 01:42:15,880
joining in the fun.
Well, his kids started going

1877
01:42:15,880 --> 01:42:18,000
down and joining in the fun.
They couldn't find their way

1878
01:42:18,000 --> 01:42:21,160
back, and then then they didn't
want to come back either.

1879
01:42:21,520 --> 01:42:25,200
But they were warned.
If you do, pretty soon there was

1880
01:42:25,200 --> 01:42:27,920
only a small community left up
on the hill, the righteous and

1881
01:42:27,920 --> 01:42:30,400
the holy ones.
It left just a small community.

1882
01:42:30,640 --> 01:42:32,440
What were they going to do to
keep up?

1883
01:42:32,920 --> 01:42:35,480
So the holy ones are left In our
Book of Enoch.

1884
01:42:35,720 --> 01:42:38,720
They asked Enoch on the high
places who he is when Enoch goes

1885
01:42:38,720 --> 01:42:40,520
on his mission, Right.
Who are you?

1886
01:42:41,240 --> 01:42:43,280
They say there's a strange thing
in the land.

1887
01:42:43,360 --> 01:42:46,320
A wild man has come among us,
they say, Who are you?

1888
01:42:46,320 --> 01:42:49,360
He says I come from the land of
my father's, which is a land of

1889
01:42:49,360 --> 01:42:52,560
holiness to this day.
The tradition is that those who

1890
01:42:52,560 --> 01:42:54,880
remained on the high places kept
themselves holy.

1891
01:42:55,000 --> 01:42:57,440
And it was still called the land
of holiness when Enoch went

1892
01:42:57,440 --> 01:43:00,920
forth on his mission and all.
And all this is in these

1893
01:43:00,920 --> 01:43:02,640
sources.
You won't find it in the Bible

1894
01:43:02,640 --> 01:43:05,320
or any Jewish, Jewish sources
for that matter.

1895
01:43:05,600 --> 01:43:08,240
This is very old stuff.
This is man day and and it's in

1896
01:43:08,240 --> 01:43:11,040
the old child day and dialect
that the Jews can't read at all.

1897
01:43:11,200 --> 01:43:14,200
So he's getting all that from
from early Christian literature.

1898
01:43:14,440 --> 01:43:18,760
Right.
So very consistent.

1899
01:43:18,760 --> 01:43:20,440
There's a.
Lot there to unpack.

1900
01:43:20,440 --> 01:43:21,440
Yeah, yeah.
Right.

1901
01:43:21,640 --> 01:43:22,680
I mean.
Talk about that.

1902
01:43:25,400 --> 01:43:28,560
So often we read in the
scripture about falling into the

1903
01:43:28,560 --> 01:43:34,800
snares of the adversary, sure,
but stuff like this gives us

1904
01:43:34,800 --> 01:43:36,600
also something else.
He does right?

1905
01:43:36,840 --> 01:43:41,640
He goes up the mountain.
He's not content to just lay a

1906
01:43:41,640 --> 01:43:48,240
snare, right?
He's an active hunter and we

1907
01:43:48,240 --> 01:43:51,520
certainly better be cognizant of
that fact today, right?

1908
01:43:51,960 --> 01:43:54,800
I look, I'm a, I'm going to be
honest with you, I don't envy

1909
01:43:54,800 --> 01:43:58,880
kid guys your age.
I don't envy because you're as

1910
01:43:58,880 --> 01:44:00,440
old as my oldest son.
Sure.

1911
01:44:01,320 --> 01:44:04,800
I don't envy the position you
guys are in because look, in my

1912
01:44:04,800 --> 01:44:07,520
day, if you wanted to find
something illicit, you had to

1913
01:44:07,520 --> 01:44:09,440
work for it.
Right now.

1914
01:44:09,440 --> 01:44:12,840
It comes to your door, it comes
through your laptop, it comes on

1915
01:44:12,840 --> 01:44:18,000
your phone, it comes pre ready.
It's a click of a button whether

1916
01:44:18,040 --> 01:44:20,560
you mean to or not.
Sometimes, right?

1917
01:44:21,840 --> 01:44:25,360
And so he's doubled his efforts
in his hunt.

1918
01:44:25,600 --> 01:44:28,360
He is not content to just lay
snares.

1919
01:44:30,520 --> 01:44:32,440
No, he's not.
In fact, in that account, which

1920
01:44:32,440 --> 01:44:37,280
I've read, when they appear as
angels, Satan and and his

1921
01:44:38,120 --> 01:44:40,840
relations, you know, as he said
to Cain, when he goes up to

1922
01:44:40,840 --> 01:44:45,480
Jared and gets Jared to come
down, he sends the guys that are

1923
01:44:45,480 --> 01:44:49,200
with him back up to the top of
the mountain to try to steal the

1924
01:44:49,200 --> 01:44:52,760
garment that Adam had left.
You know, the, the, the garment

1925
01:44:52,760 --> 01:44:56,600
of the priesthood that Adam had
that was made by the Lord was

1926
01:44:56,600 --> 01:45:00,960
left at the at the repository,
The Cave of treasures and Satan

1927
01:45:00,960 --> 01:45:03,800
was trying to steal it, you
know, while while Jared was

1928
01:45:03,920 --> 01:45:05,320
hanging out and being shown the
city.

1929
01:45:06,040 --> 01:45:11,040
So that back to the he's pro
proactively trying to get the

1930
01:45:11,040 --> 01:45:13,640
business going.
So let's talk about that garment

1931
01:45:13,640 --> 01:45:15,000
for a minute, right?
Sure.

1932
01:45:15,360 --> 01:45:18,480
Wouldn't it be it have been more
fitting for the heir of the

1933
01:45:18,480 --> 01:45:21,760
family to be wearing that
garment rather than just having

1934
01:45:21,760 --> 01:45:24,320
it in a cave?
Yeah.

1935
01:45:24,320 --> 01:45:26,640
What's going on with that?
That's interesting.

1936
01:45:26,640 --> 01:45:28,320
I don't know.
What are your thoughts?

1937
01:45:31,280 --> 01:45:34,040
Why is it every time we do one,
I'm going to say something that

1938
01:45:34,040 --> 01:45:35,400
I'm no, I'm going to have to
edit out?

1939
01:45:39,600 --> 01:45:44,400
I have wondered for a while
because I believe it's in

1940
01:45:44,400 --> 01:45:46,080
Isaiah.
I'd have to go back and dig it

1941
01:45:46,080 --> 01:45:49,800
all up again.
But it's in Isaiah and it talks

1942
01:45:49,800 --> 01:45:53,040
about the garment of the priest
or the garment of the king.

1943
01:45:54,520 --> 01:45:59,360
Then there's allusions to the
garment of the laborer, and it

1944
01:45:59,360 --> 01:46:04,960
has made me wonder if the
garment that's talked about in

1945
01:46:04,960 --> 01:46:09,360
there would be the robes.
OK, sure.

1946
01:46:09,360 --> 01:46:10,680
One thought I've had.
Sure.

1947
01:46:11,400 --> 01:46:14,720
So I can see that.
And there's some other stuff

1948
01:46:14,720 --> 01:46:18,800
that we'll talk about more that
I'm just not ready to talk about

1949
01:46:18,800 --> 01:46:21,200
for public consumption yet,
because they're just my crazy

1950
01:46:21,360 --> 01:46:22,560
ideas.
No, I know what you're putting

1951
01:46:22,560 --> 01:46:23,520
down.
In fact, we may have had this

1952
01:46:23,520 --> 01:46:25,720
conversation while we were out
hanging out and survey.

1953
01:46:25,720 --> 01:46:28,440
Yes, that's kind of what I'm I'm
wondering.

1954
01:46:28,800 --> 01:46:31,560
I have nothing to back that up.
It's just some things that I

1955
01:46:31,560 --> 01:46:32,920
have inferred from the
scripture.

1956
01:46:32,920 --> 01:46:34,360
No, that's very, that's very
good.

1957
01:46:38,520 --> 01:46:40,880
Any of the firm that was a lot.
But is there any further

1958
01:46:40,880 --> 01:46:42,160
commentary on this section?
No.

1959
01:46:42,280 --> 01:46:44,600
Those were those were basically
the things that jumped out at

1960
01:46:44,600 --> 01:46:45,640
me.
OK.

1961
01:46:45,640 --> 01:46:48,320
So this kind of goes in line
with what we talked about, about

1962
01:46:48,320 --> 01:46:52,000
Satan making covenants with like
the US and China and Russia.

1963
01:46:52,400 --> 01:46:58,120
The next section here the deals
with Lamech, which is who's 7

1964
01:46:58,120 --> 01:47:02,000
generations from Adam, the same
way that Enoch through the line

1965
01:47:02,000 --> 01:47:04,640
of Seth is 7 generations from
from Adam, right?

1966
01:47:04,920 --> 01:47:07,280
So seven in Hebrew is important
because it means completion.

1967
01:47:07,280 --> 01:47:10,120
Yes.
And so you see with Enoch

1968
01:47:10,200 --> 01:47:14,400
through the line of Seth, a
complete cycle of righteousness.

1969
01:47:14,600 --> 01:47:17,520
You know, right.
Right start out well.

1970
01:47:17,760 --> 01:47:21,160
And start out well and he's
called of God to and the next

1971
01:47:21,160 --> 01:47:25,560
dispensation, you know with
Lamech, you see the same thing.

1972
01:47:26,120 --> 01:47:28,880
Satan makes an oath with Lamech.
Right.

1973
01:47:29,320 --> 01:47:31,520
To be master mayhem now, Yeah,
right.

1974
01:47:32,560 --> 01:47:37,800
And according to like the Book
of Jasher, for example, and

1975
01:47:37,800 --> 01:47:43,120
other scriptures that are not in
the Bible, Cain's still alive.

1976
01:47:43,400 --> 01:47:45,680
Yeah.
He's the master Mayhem, but

1977
01:47:45,680 --> 01:47:47,360
there can only be one.
Right.

1978
01:47:48,200 --> 01:47:52,000
And so I have in my notes here.
The title for this section of

1979
01:47:52,000 --> 01:47:54,120
notes is Lamech.
Did he Kill Cain?

1980
01:47:54,640 --> 01:47:57,800
Never heard anything about that.
I haven't, but let's talk about

1981
01:47:57,800 --> 01:48:01,160
it.
So in the Book of Moses it reads

1982
01:48:01,160 --> 01:48:03,960
this this way.
If Cain shall be Avenged

1983
01:48:03,960 --> 01:48:07,080
Sevenfold, truly Lamech shall be
70 and sevenfold.

1984
01:48:07,080 --> 01:48:10,200
For Lamech, having entered into
a covenant with Satan, after the

1985
01:48:10,200 --> 01:48:13,840
manner of Cain, wherein he
became Master Mahan, master of

1986
01:48:13,840 --> 01:48:16,600
that great secret which is
administered unto Cain by Satan.

1987
01:48:16,680 --> 01:48:20,280
And Irad the son of Enoch,
having known their secret, began

1988
01:48:20,280 --> 01:48:21,840
to reveal it unto the sons of
Adam.

1989
01:48:21,840 --> 01:48:25,760
Wherefore Lamech Lamech being
angry, slew him not like unto

1990
01:48:25,760 --> 01:48:30,000
Cain, his brother Abel for the
sake of getting gain, but he

1991
01:48:30,000 --> 01:48:34,320
slew him for the oath's sake.
Yeah, I'll pause that.

1992
01:48:34,320 --> 01:48:39,400
Maybe we'll resume reading.
So in the I think it's

1993
01:48:39,520 --> 01:48:42,080
reasonably consistent across a
few different works, but it's

1994
01:48:42,080 --> 01:48:49,200
for sure in the book of Jasher
where the story goes that lame

1995
01:48:49,200 --> 01:48:53,400
and actually, so there's no
intentional murder in Lamech's

1996
01:48:53,400 --> 01:48:57,000
heart in the in the in this
story from the book of Jasher,

1997
01:48:57,000 --> 01:48:59,480
but nibbly in one of the
lectures I read kind of

1998
01:48:59,480 --> 01:49:01,920
sandwiches all this together
from the book of Moses and and

1999
01:49:02,040 --> 01:49:05,160
all these other things.
And he basically says that, OK,

2000
01:49:05,280 --> 01:49:07,680
we take it from the book of
Moses that Lamech entered into a

2001
01:49:07,680 --> 01:49:09,280
covenant of Satan.
There can only be one.

2002
01:49:09,960 --> 01:49:17,480
Now Cain went looking for Lamech
and the his wives, Ada and Zilla

2003
01:49:18,120 --> 01:49:21,000
knew what somewhat concerning
some things.

2004
01:49:21,040 --> 01:49:23,520
And it says in the book of Moses
that they began to reveal

2005
01:49:25,080 --> 01:49:30,800
certain things out there.
It's so Cain hears the oh, the

2006
01:49:30,800 --> 01:49:32,960
women are talking about things
that they shouldn't be talking

2007
01:49:32,960 --> 01:49:33,560
about.
No.

2008
01:49:33,560 --> 01:49:35,160
OK, tell me where your husband
is.

2009
01:49:35,160 --> 01:49:39,520
And they go and say, yeah, he's
out here, go find, you know,

2010
01:49:39,520 --> 01:49:41,600
whatever.
And they just spill the beans,

2011
01:49:42,120 --> 01:49:43,200
right.
But can't.

2012
01:49:43,200 --> 01:49:45,480
But Lanek already knows this
because he's he's entered into a

2013
01:49:45,480 --> 01:49:48,920
covenant with Satan, but he's
blind in the in the story and

2014
01:49:48,920 --> 01:49:52,840
Jasher.
And so he has a young man out

2015
01:49:52,840 --> 01:49:55,320
there, one of his sons or
something else, or, you know, a

2016
01:49:55,320 --> 01:49:57,520
family member or whatever,
nephew, whatever.

2017
01:49:57,960 --> 01:50:02,120
And the story goes in the book
of Jasher that he has to have

2018
01:50:02,360 --> 01:50:04,240
the boy.
They're hiding in the bushes and

2019
01:50:04,240 --> 01:50:07,720
he's pointing.
He's pointing and directing the

2020
01:50:07,720 --> 01:50:12,160
arrow, you know, because Lamex
got a bead drawn, but he can't

2021
01:50:12,160 --> 01:50:13,960
see.
And so he's having a spotter

2022
01:50:13,960 --> 01:50:18,560
direct the the game, right?
So as soon as the boy sees Cain,

2023
01:50:18,880 --> 01:50:24,040
he spots him, directs the arrow.
Lamech let's fire kills Cain and

2024
01:50:24,040 --> 01:50:28,960
then Lamech turns around and
kills the boy to to hide the the

2025
01:50:28,960 --> 01:50:32,280
evidence.
And this goes into what it says

2026
01:50:32,320 --> 01:50:38,240
in down here.
He says it's actually before

2027
01:50:38,240 --> 01:50:41,720
this before this section where
he says, hearken ye wives of

2028
01:50:41,720 --> 01:50:44,760
Lamech.
I have slain a young man to my

2029
01:50:44,760 --> 01:50:47,800
wounding and to my hurt right.
You remember that that's.

2030
01:50:47,800 --> 01:50:51,160
Right.
And so that reconciles that, you

2031
01:50:51,160 --> 01:50:55,080
know, I've killed the young man
and he's saying he's not telling

2032
01:50:55,080 --> 01:50:57,120
them I'm doing this to cover up
that I killed Cain.

2033
01:50:57,120 --> 01:50:59,800
But that's what he was doing.
But and because I killed this

2034
01:50:59,800 --> 01:51:04,080
young man, surely I'll be
avenged 70 and 70 full, you

2035
01:51:04,080 --> 01:51:06,600
know, that's my punishment, you
know.

2036
01:51:07,520 --> 01:51:11,720
But then Irad, his like
grandfather, the book of Moses

2037
01:51:11,720 --> 01:51:16,320
says started to once he heard
that, he starts revealing it to

2038
01:51:16,320 --> 01:51:19,880
the rest of Adam's posterity.
And then Lamech went and killed

2039
01:51:20,280 --> 01:51:23,280
his like grandfather or great
grandfather Irad for the oath's

2040
01:51:23,280 --> 01:51:25,920
sake because you weren't
supposed to divulge it.

2041
01:51:27,840 --> 01:51:32,080
And see, this is, this should be
the one of the ultimate

2042
01:51:32,960 --> 01:51:34,800
cautionary tales, right?
Sure.

2043
01:51:35,480 --> 01:51:37,080
Evil's never going to have your
back.

2044
01:51:37,720 --> 01:51:42,040
There's no honor among thieves.
Understand that you're going to

2045
01:51:42,040 --> 01:51:46,720
live by the sword, and you will
die by the sword every time.

2046
01:51:46,840 --> 01:51:50,520
It may take centuries for all
this to come to the light, but

2047
01:51:50,520 --> 01:51:53,120
it always comes to light.
It gets drug out kicking and

2048
01:51:53,120 --> 01:51:59,400
screaming and there is no happy
ending for you if you engage.

2049
01:51:59,480 --> 01:52:01,960
In this right.
And so, yeah, so back to the

2050
01:52:01,960 --> 01:52:05,560
parallels, Enoch, the through
the Seth line, the complete

2051
01:52:06,120 --> 01:52:09,200
recycle and fulfillment of
righteousness covenants and

2052
01:52:09,200 --> 01:52:13,960
Lamech, the complete recycle of,
of the, the wicked, Yeah, the

2053
01:52:13,960 --> 01:52:16,040
counterfeit covenants.
Yeah.

2054
01:52:16,040 --> 01:52:21,320
And in some ways he in some ways
he does something probably far

2055
01:52:21,320 --> 01:52:24,120
worse than than even Cain did
right.

2056
01:52:24,120 --> 01:52:26,480
Despite the knowledge that he
didn't have of the Lord first

2057
01:52:26,480 --> 01:52:27,480
hand.
But yeah.

2058
01:52:28,240 --> 01:52:32,240
'Cause he kills a child.
Yeah, Kills three people, kills

2059
01:52:32,240 --> 01:52:35,840
Cain, kills, you know, his he
kills two of his own ancestors

2060
01:52:35,880 --> 01:52:38,520
through his patrilineal life and
a nephew.

2061
01:52:39,360 --> 01:52:42,200
Yeah, to hide it all and to get
the the control of the group.

2062
01:52:42,240 --> 01:52:46,880
Just the human carnage left in
the wake of of the adversary

2063
01:52:46,880 --> 01:52:51,360
should be enough to wake people.
Up And so if Lamech and Enoch

2064
01:52:51,360 --> 01:52:54,080
are contemporaries because
they're both 7 generations from

2065
01:52:54,400 --> 01:52:58,520
from Adam, right?
It fits with what God tells

2066
01:52:58,520 --> 01:53:02,520
Enoch, that they they refuse to
have me as their father and they

2067
01:53:02,520 --> 01:53:06,360
hate their own blood.
Yeah, well now let's tie it to

2068
01:53:06,360 --> 01:53:10,520
modern day.
Boy, I'm going to get cancelled.

2069
01:53:11,600 --> 01:53:13,280
We already are.
I already am.

2070
01:53:13,280 --> 01:53:15,880
I'm on 8 watch lists.
What do we do?

2071
01:53:15,880 --> 01:53:19,680
What I shouldn't say we, what
are what's society doing to

2072
01:53:19,680 --> 01:53:24,160
children now?
I'm just going to call it like I

2073
01:53:24,160 --> 01:53:25,400
see it.
That's not transitioning.

2074
01:53:25,400 --> 01:53:27,080
That's gender mutilation.
It is.

2075
01:53:27,240 --> 01:53:29,840
It's death too, because it is
the mortality rates.

2076
01:53:29,880 --> 01:53:31,480
The suicidality is 40%.
Right.

2077
01:53:31,520 --> 01:53:34,040
And that's just for them.
That's not their successive

2078
01:53:34,040 --> 01:53:39,920
generations, right.
Again, repackaged for modern

2079
01:53:39,920 --> 01:53:42,080
consumption, but the same
outcomes.

2080
01:53:43,720 --> 01:53:48,960
Yeah, 100% and I'll die on this
hill.

2081
01:53:49,720 --> 01:53:50,720
Me too.
I'm with you.

2082
01:53:50,720 --> 01:53:54,160
I'll die on this hill if I have
to start sending out podcasts

2083
01:53:54,160 --> 01:53:55,560
individually.
That's what we'll do.

2084
01:53:56,440 --> 01:53:59,720
But I, I will not go down
quietly on this.

2085
01:54:00,360 --> 01:54:02,760
But this is, this is the same
stuff.

2086
01:54:03,400 --> 01:54:08,160
This is the same stuff.
The destruction of of progeny,

2087
01:54:08,680 --> 01:54:12,000
the destruction of the ability
to have children, and the

2088
01:54:12,000 --> 01:54:15,520
destruction of human beings.
It is 1000% it is.

2089
01:54:17,320 --> 01:54:23,160
So anyway, that's my soapbox.
All right, so I don't know if I

2090
01:54:23,160 --> 01:54:25,960
can tell this humorously, this
anecdote that I want to share on

2091
01:54:25,960 --> 01:54:30,080
Lamech too, because it's really
at the time when it happened,

2092
01:54:31,240 --> 01:54:33,320
this was so funny to me.
My companion in the mission

2093
01:54:33,320 --> 01:54:34,520
field didn't think it was so
funny.

2094
01:54:34,520 --> 01:54:41,120
But I'm in the mission field and
there's a big stigma about what

2095
01:54:42,320 --> 01:54:44,760
in the LDS Church culture we
call deep doctrine.

2096
01:54:45,280 --> 01:54:47,320
Right.
And things you can't talk about,

2097
01:54:47,400 --> 01:54:50,120
although when you get certain
companions, some just don't want

2098
01:54:50,120 --> 01:54:52,960
to talk about it.
Some mission presidents hate it.

2099
01:54:53,320 --> 01:54:55,480
But something you get with the
right people, you can talk about

2100
01:54:55,960 --> 01:54:57,720
deep doctrine.
Now all the stuff that I

2101
01:54:57,720 --> 01:55:00,800
consider deep at the time, not
really so deep.

2102
01:55:01,120 --> 01:55:02,400
Right, right.
Not really.

2103
01:55:02,400 --> 01:55:10,440
Right, Right.
But there's this humorous urban

2104
01:55:10,720 --> 01:55:13,120
mythology that's centered around
Cane being Bigfoot.

2105
01:55:13,240 --> 01:55:17,600
Yes, yes, I've heard it.
And, and it comes from this,

2106
01:55:17,680 --> 01:55:20,640
this, this source.
And I don't know what the

2107
01:55:20,760 --> 01:55:23,680
authenticity of it is.
I, it's never really bugged me

2108
01:55:23,680 --> 01:55:28,280
because it's full core to me.
And I, I, you know, I hope that

2109
01:55:28,360 --> 01:55:30,440
this isn't testimony shattering
to anyone because it comes from

2110
01:55:30,440 --> 01:55:32,720
David W Patton.
He was the 1st president, first

2111
01:55:32,720 --> 01:55:34,360
or second president of the
Quorum of the 12.

2112
01:55:34,360 --> 01:55:36,520
And he had that whole story
right where he was on horseback

2113
01:55:36,520 --> 01:55:40,760
and he saw, you know, this Angel
of death type figure.

2114
01:55:40,880 --> 01:55:43,840
And I don't recall in the actual
source whether it said he was

2115
01:55:43,840 --> 01:55:46,080
Cain or whether that was just
left to be inferred by other

2116
01:55:46,080 --> 01:55:48,720
people as it's been passed on.
It was quoted in Spencer W

2117
01:55:48,800 --> 01:55:52,840
Kimball's Spencer Wooly Kimball.
I just have to say that I have

2118
01:55:52,840 --> 01:55:54,840
to say his name.
I have to say the full name

2119
01:55:54,840 --> 01:55:56,000
every time.
Absolutely.

2120
01:55:56,200 --> 01:55:58,200
You know, his book Miracle
Forgiveness.

2121
01:56:00,000 --> 01:56:03,440
And he uses Cain as the the
prime example of the reprobate,

2122
01:56:03,440 --> 01:56:05,040
right?
Who can't, who refuses

2123
01:56:05,040 --> 01:56:08,560
repentance, right.
And shows that even he's around

2124
01:56:08,560 --> 01:56:11,320
today.
And his goal purportedly is to

2125
01:56:11,320 --> 01:56:12,760
destroy the souls of men on the
earth.

2126
01:56:13,960 --> 01:56:17,400
Now, you're on into some
problems now, you know, in these

2127
01:56:17,400 --> 01:56:20,560
discussions, because then your
companion asks me, you know,

2128
01:56:20,640 --> 01:56:24,880
like, well, how did Cain survive
the flood, right.

2129
01:56:24,880 --> 01:56:26,720
And so I doesn't dismiss the
whole thing because, yeah, he

2130
01:56:26,720 --> 01:56:28,480
couldn't.
And so some people are like,

2131
01:56:28,480 --> 01:56:33,480
well, maybe the Lord translated
him to preserve him on the

2132
01:56:33,480 --> 01:56:35,080
earth.
So he, you know, because his

2133
01:56:35,080 --> 01:56:36,960
curse was to wander.
Well, it doesn't say that his

2134
01:56:36,960 --> 01:56:40,040
curse was to wander forever,
forever, forever on the earth.

2135
01:56:40,360 --> 01:56:43,040
No, no, but.
And it would be the most

2136
01:56:43,040 --> 01:56:45,560
singular example forever of the
Lord translating a wicked

2137
01:56:45,560 --> 01:56:46,520
person.
Right.

2138
01:56:46,840 --> 01:56:48,840
You know, and he's cut off from
the presence of the Lord.

2139
01:56:48,960 --> 01:56:50,400
Yes.
That doesn't stack up anyway, So

2140
01:56:50,400 --> 01:56:54,040
I just dismissed that.
And but I had already, you know,

2141
01:56:54,160 --> 01:56:56,200
I hadn't read some of the stuff
that we shared already, but I

2142
01:56:56,200 --> 01:56:57,760
had already turned on to the
fact that.

2143
01:56:58,040 --> 01:57:00,600
Yeah, at that point that.
OK, it says Lamech made a

2144
01:57:00,840 --> 01:57:04,240
covenant with Cain or made a
made a covenant with Satan.

2145
01:57:04,560 --> 01:57:08,800
And I realized, oh, there can
only be one in this dichotomy,

2146
01:57:08,800 --> 01:57:10,080
right?
So maybe it was that Lamech

2147
01:57:10,080 --> 01:57:13,960
killed Cain somehow.
And so my companions really

2148
01:57:13,960 --> 01:57:16,720
stirring over this thing about
like, how did Cain survive the

2149
01:57:16,720 --> 01:57:19,760
flood and he didn't.
Well, then who was the Bigfoot?

2150
01:57:19,760 --> 01:57:25,800
And I said it was Lamech.
Very good.

2151
01:57:25,960 --> 01:57:29,160
But it was and he was just like,
what?

2152
01:57:29,560 --> 01:57:32,400
No, you know, he didn't like
that answer at all.

2153
01:57:32,400 --> 01:57:34,280
And I don't think that's true
either.

2154
01:57:34,280 --> 01:57:37,560
But I just had to make fun of
the the folklore a little bit.

2155
01:57:37,560 --> 01:57:40,760
You know, now I want to get a
shirt on the on the Mormon

2156
01:57:40,760 --> 01:57:45,080
renegade merch store that just
shows the picture of Bigfoot and

2157
01:57:45,080 --> 01:57:48,320
just has a has an arrow that
says Lamech on it.

2158
01:57:48,400 --> 01:57:49,440
For sure.
Yeah.

2159
01:57:49,440 --> 01:57:52,160
No, it's it was a funny.
It was a really funny moment to

2160
01:57:52,160 --> 01:57:54,000
me.
I had a really good time with

2161
01:57:54,000 --> 01:57:55,200
that.
My companion thought it was

2162
01:57:55,200 --> 01:57:56,480
stupid.
The heck?

2163
01:57:56,480 --> 01:58:02,200
But anyways, but yeah, I think
that is there's good support for

2164
01:58:02,200 --> 01:58:04,040
the fact that Cain did not
survive the flood.

2165
01:58:04,480 --> 01:58:06,360
The flood, definitely, but he
didn't survive.

2166
01:58:06,360 --> 01:58:08,440
He didn't before that.
You know, it's, there's really

2167
01:58:08,440 --> 01:58:12,000
good rhetorical connections
within the scriptures that point

2168
01:58:12,000 --> 01:58:16,960
out that that he was was slain.
Well, and it makes sense how

2169
01:58:16,960 --> 01:58:20,320
Satan deals with his with his
followers.

2170
01:58:21,040 --> 01:58:23,640
He throws them.
He'll throw them to the wolves,

2171
01:58:25,120 --> 01:58:28,280
absolutely.
Absolutely.

2172
01:58:29,960 --> 01:58:36,920
Going on there's AI think this
is relatively relevant to or

2173
01:58:37,000 --> 01:58:41,640
interesting at the very least.
It's from Nibley's Old Testament

2174
01:58:41,640 --> 01:58:46,720
and Related Studies Chapter 7,
and it gets into record keeping,

2175
01:58:46,720 --> 01:58:50,640
which I'm a big fan of, but it's
relevant to the saga.

2176
01:58:51,520 --> 01:58:54,320
He says the 5th chapter of
Genesis begins with a very

2177
01:58:54,320 --> 01:58:57,400
important episode, the formal
establishment of Adam's family

2178
01:58:57,400 --> 01:59:00,280
organization.
I actually want to say this was

2179
01:59:00,280 --> 01:59:04,200
also in an article he read or
wrote.

2180
01:59:04,680 --> 01:59:07,600
Maybe it's not Never mind.
In fact, I think it's not, but

2181
01:59:07,600 --> 01:59:11,520
it's similar to an article he
wrote called Before Adam.

2182
01:59:11,600 --> 01:59:14,000
OK.
Anyways, it begins with a book,

2183
01:59:14,080 --> 01:59:16,840
a book of remembrance or
genealogy entitled The Book of

2184
01:59:16,840 --> 01:59:21,200
the Generations of Adam.
It begins in the day the gods

2185
01:59:21,200 --> 01:59:24,920
set apart Adam in the likeness
of the gods.

2186
01:59:24,960 --> 01:59:28,320
He made him male and female.
He set them apart and gave them

2187
01:59:28,320 --> 01:59:31,080
a blessing, and gave their names
as Adam in the day that he set

2188
01:59:31,080 --> 01:59:33,720
them apart.
Next comes Seth in the proper

2189
01:59:33,720 --> 01:59:36,000
line of Adam, and the
patriarchal line follows.

2190
01:59:36,360 --> 01:59:39,240
The preceding chapter tells of
the division of the canines and

2191
01:59:39,240 --> 01:59:42,040
the Sethites, and it is
significant that the cane, the

2192
01:59:42,040 --> 01:59:44,600
line of Cain, is omitted from
the genealogy of Adam.

2193
01:59:45,120 --> 01:59:48,200
The Book of Moses tells of
multitudes of Adam's children

2194
01:59:48,200 --> 01:59:51,320
born before born before Cain and
Abel.

2195
01:59:51,640 --> 01:59:54,600
They had followed Satan by
choice and were disqualified as

2196
01:59:54,600 --> 01:59:56,920
the sons of God.
We read in Moses.

2197
01:59:57,120 --> 01:59:59,680
And unto thy brethren have I
given a commandment, that they

2198
01:59:59,680 --> 02:00:02,920
should choose me, their father.
But behold, their sins shall be

2199
02:00:02,920 --> 02:00:04,600
upon their head, the heads of
their fathers.

2200
02:00:04,640 --> 02:00:08,280
Satan shall be their father.
Those who accepted the covenant

2201
02:00:08,280 --> 02:00:11,360
were called the sons of God, and
also the sons of Adam.

2202
02:00:11,840 --> 02:00:14,840
And this is the genealogy of the
sons of Adam, who was the son of

2203
02:00:14,840 --> 02:00:19,080
God.
It's really fun.

2204
02:00:20,320 --> 02:00:22,800
In some of the commentary Nibley
gives on the Pearl of great

2205
02:00:22,800 --> 02:00:28,400
price, he in reading the Pearl
of great price in the book of

2206
02:00:28,400 --> 02:00:32,520
Moses specifically, he actually
in his own commentary refers to

2207
02:00:32,520 --> 02:00:36,200
how there's actually, it's not
just the book of Moses, right?

2208
02:00:36,200 --> 02:00:38,840
It's the book of Adam isn't here
because anything he goes and

2209
02:00:38,840 --> 02:00:42,160
says, look at all these when at
at the time of Adam, look at all

2210
02:00:42,160 --> 02:00:44,880
these apocryphal connections to
other early Christian Adam

2211
02:00:45,200 --> 02:00:47,960
literature is what he calls it.
Then you have Enochs on the

2212
02:00:47,960 --> 02:00:50,760
scene and that has parallels to
the book of Enoch, which is an

2213
02:00:50,760 --> 02:00:53,840
exorcanonic whole scripture.
And then there's a book of Noah,

2214
02:00:54,280 --> 02:00:55,920
which is actually a part of the
book of Enoch.

2215
02:00:56,960 --> 02:01:00,480
The it's in there's at least
there is a book of Enoch in what

2216
02:01:00,480 --> 02:01:04,920
we call what, what the scholars
call the Ethiopian, right, first

2217
02:01:04,920 --> 02:01:09,000
book of Enoch, right, which
deals with Methuselah and, and

2218
02:01:09,000 --> 02:01:12,640
Noah and Enoch.
And so you have the book of Noah

2219
02:01:12,680 --> 02:01:15,160
in the book of Moses, you have
the book of Enoch in the book of

2220
02:01:15,160 --> 02:01:17,640
Moses, and you have the book of
Adam all in the book of Moses.

2221
02:01:17,640 --> 02:01:20,240
And it's really interesting that
he says the Pearl of Great Price

2222
02:01:21,760 --> 02:01:27,520
is establishing scripture that's
kept in this book of

2223
02:01:27,520 --> 02:01:28,800
remembrance.
Right.

2224
02:01:29,000 --> 02:01:33,480
That all the early dispensation
heads hat you know right, you

2225
02:01:33,480 --> 02:01:35,880
know hat you know he gave.
That's what those were their

2226
02:01:35,880 --> 02:01:38,600
scriptures.
And so Joseph Smith isn't

2227
02:01:38,600 --> 02:01:41,520
actually just restoring
something that's OK.

2228
02:01:41,520 --> 02:01:45,080
This is was to Moses.
He was also restoring to Moses

2229
02:01:45,200 --> 02:01:48,680
what had been lost, yes, but was
previously recorded because we

2230
02:01:48,680 --> 02:01:51,520
know what's recorded on earth
will be recorded in heaven.

2231
02:01:51,640 --> 02:01:54,440
That's right.
Right, and this is going to

2232
02:01:54,440 --> 02:01:56,240
sound controversial, but I
should read it anyways.

2233
02:01:56,440 --> 02:01:58,560
You read it anyway, and then
there's something I want to

2234
02:01:58,560 --> 02:02:01,160
bring up here as soon as I find.
If you find it first, you can go

2235
02:02:01,160 --> 02:02:03,480
ahead.
Yeah, no, go ahead and start

2236
02:02:03,480 --> 02:02:12,800
looking that up and I'll see.
I just did an episode with a

2237
02:02:12,800 --> 02:02:22,360
gentleman who is from the from
the, it's a, it's a restoration

2238
02:02:22,360 --> 02:02:26,280
branch, the Hendrickites.
No, the Church of Jesus Christ,

2239
02:02:26,280 --> 02:02:28,480
the Elijah message.
OK, interesting.

2240
02:02:28,920 --> 02:02:35,040
And he did an interesting
presentation on the book of Book

2241
02:02:35,040 --> 02:02:39,360
of Enoch that I had on, and we
had a discussion about that and

2242
02:02:39,360 --> 02:02:41,360
just talked.
About I would I need to listen

2243
02:02:41,360 --> 02:02:42,840
to that because from.
Yeah, I haven't.

2244
02:02:42,840 --> 02:02:44,280
I haven't posted it yet.
I.

2245
02:02:44,280 --> 02:02:46,760
Think I would love to see what
from his background what he had

2246
02:02:46,760 --> 02:02:47,760
to say about that.
Right.

2247
02:02:47,880 --> 02:02:51,120
Yeah, no, he and, and the dude
comes with chops, right?

2248
02:02:51,120 --> 02:02:54,560
He's also a professor, really,
OK, highly educated.

2249
02:02:55,760 --> 02:03:00,200
And he, he basically, you know,
we, we shared a common thing

2250
02:03:00,200 --> 02:03:04,360
there that that, you know,
Joseph essentially elevates Adam

2251
02:03:04,360 --> 02:03:07,800
and Eve from the source of all
of our problems to noble

2252
02:03:07,800 --> 02:03:10,880
figures.
But, but it, we talk mainly

2253
02:03:10,880 --> 02:03:15,040
about the book of Enoch.
And because he has all that

2254
02:03:15,040 --> 02:03:17,240
chops in those credits and
they've done the research that I

2255
02:03:17,240 --> 02:03:21,440
haven't, I asked him point
blank, I said, can any of these?

2256
02:03:22,280 --> 02:03:25,520
We didn't get too much into the
the theology of the books, book

2257
02:03:25,520 --> 02:03:27,160
of Enoch.
We just talked about the history

2258
02:03:27,160 --> 02:03:29,480
of it and stuff and what we see
in it.

2259
02:03:30,480 --> 02:03:32,600
Dove a little bit into theology,
but not much.

2260
02:03:33,840 --> 02:03:36,120
But there's no way Joseph had
access to this.

2261
02:03:36,560 --> 02:03:41,520
The best, the best chance that
he had was there was a French

2262
02:03:41,520 --> 02:03:45,600
manuscript at the time, but
that's it. 11 Copy one.

2263
02:03:45,600 --> 02:03:47,680
Copy.
Not the Ethiopian version

2264
02:03:47,680 --> 02:03:51,080
either, right?
So there's one manuscript that's

2265
02:03:51,080 --> 02:03:53,520
in French at the time.
Joseph's alive.

2266
02:03:53,960 --> 02:03:57,480
Well, look, I love Joseph Smith,
but because of the time he's

2267
02:03:57,480 --> 02:04:00,080
raised, you can tell he's not
reading English real well,

2268
02:04:00,400 --> 02:04:02,160
right?
He's probably he's definitely

2269
02:04:02,160 --> 02:04:05,880
not reading French.
But there's enough bull's eyes

2270
02:04:06,440 --> 02:04:11,840
between the Book of Enoch and
what we find in Moses that is

2271
02:04:11,960 --> 02:04:17,600
pretty darn convincing.
So I've read all but the last 8

2272
02:04:17,600 --> 02:04:21,320
chapters of the first Ethiopian
Book of Enoch for preparation

2273
02:04:21,440 --> 02:04:28,640
for the next lesson and I
noticed something which was

2274
02:04:28,640 --> 02:04:31,440
cool.
But Samuel the Lamanite in the

2275
02:04:31,440 --> 02:04:34,000
Book of Mormon quotes.
Enoch, Really.

2276
02:04:34,320 --> 02:04:37,320
Yeah.
See, and and we know that the

2277
02:04:37,320 --> 02:04:41,480
Book of Enoch was floating
around even in the New Testament

2278
02:04:41,480 --> 02:04:45,240
it's brought up.
And so it's perfectly reasonable

2279
02:04:45,240 --> 02:04:47,360
to assume.
Yeah, no Christ.

2280
02:04:47,520 --> 02:04:50,040
That that they would have had
that that as well.

2281
02:04:50,040 --> 02:04:53,840
So Christ society when?
Christ says to was it somewhere

2282
02:04:53,840 --> 02:04:56,680
on the mount or whatever it is
where he says if you offend

2283
02:04:56,680 --> 02:05:00,000
these little ones, it's better
that your neck is yes, that, you

2284
02:05:00,000 --> 02:05:03,000
know, dragged by a millstone and
that you would never were born,

2285
02:05:03,280 --> 02:05:04,320
right?
That's Enoch.

2286
02:05:04,360 --> 02:05:06,240
Yes.
Yep, that's the Book of Enoch.

2287
02:05:06,240 --> 02:05:08,200
Exactly.
Christ is quoting Enoch.

2288
02:05:08,280 --> 02:05:13,160
Yep, and so Enoch literature was
probably on the brass plates,

2289
02:05:13,160 --> 02:05:16,600
which is why it was in Nephite
Lamanite culture and and Samuel

2290
02:05:16,680 --> 02:05:19,720
was quoting it to in his
dissertation on the wall of

2291
02:05:19,720 --> 02:05:20,840
Zerahema.
Right.

2292
02:05:21,080 --> 02:05:26,680
Yeah, Ancient echoes.
Yeah, no, it's it's nearly

2293
02:05:26,680 --> 02:05:29,840
verbatim.
Yep, Yep, it's too right.

2294
02:05:29,840 --> 02:05:32,440
It it right.
And some of those passages in

2295
02:05:32,440 --> 02:05:36,080
Moses are the same way.
I mean almost verbatim.

2296
02:05:36,080 --> 02:05:41,280
They are, they are.
And so on that topic, Nibley

2297
02:05:41,280 --> 02:05:48,040
says when talking about, I don't
know, he it's an interesting

2298
02:05:48,040 --> 02:05:51,000
segue that it's it's perhaps the
context isn't actually that

2299
02:05:51,000 --> 02:05:53,360
important, but it's hard to but
it's hard to define because he's

2300
02:05:53,360 --> 02:05:54,760
always going off with tangents
and stuff.

2301
02:05:54,760 --> 02:05:57,120
But this is the real me.
Adam Stokes was the gentleman's

2302
02:05:57,120 --> 02:06:02,600
name that I took it to.
So he's giving an idea of what

2303
02:06:02,600 --> 02:06:05,040
religion is in the world at one
point.

2304
02:06:05,040 --> 02:06:07,560
Then he diverges and he says
we're not talking about that

2305
02:06:07,560 --> 02:06:11,040
idea of religion at all.
So what we begin with is this

2306
02:06:11,040 --> 02:06:15,320
one theme, and this is the first
lecture IN20A series of 26

2307
02:06:15,320 --> 02:06:16,680
lectures on the Pearl of Great
Price.

2308
02:06:16,720 --> 02:06:19,040
What we begin with is this one
thing.

2309
02:06:19,440 --> 02:06:22,280
They have taken many precious
things away from the scriptures,

2310
02:06:22,320 --> 02:06:25,200
from the record, right?
The Book of Mormon says that,

2311
02:06:25,320 --> 02:06:29,240
Yep, we have one book that
restores them, and only one.

2312
02:06:29,640 --> 02:06:32,040
It's not the Book of Mormon,
it's not the Doctrine of

2313
02:06:32,040 --> 02:06:34,160
Covenants.
It's the Pearl of Great Price

2314
02:06:34,160 --> 02:06:36,960
that restores the many precious
things that were taken away that

2315
02:06:36,960 --> 02:06:41,120
caused people to stumble.
He says, I collected a number of

2316
02:06:41,120 --> 02:06:44,040
relevant passages years ago.
There are just a couple of short

2317
02:06:44,040 --> 02:06:45,160
ones here from the Book of
Mormon.

2318
02:06:45,280 --> 02:06:48,600
First, Nephi 1323.
He sees the book in a vision and

2319
02:06:48,600 --> 02:06:50,960
he says it's very where the
Angel shows him the Bible,

2320
02:06:50,960 --> 02:06:53,480
right?
He says it's close to the Old

2321
02:06:53,480 --> 02:06:56,240
Testament that we have now, but
they have taken away a lot of it

2322
02:06:56,240 --> 02:06:59,360
and there's not much left.
The book that thou beholdest is

2323
02:06:59,360 --> 02:07:01,800
the Record of the Jews, which
contains the covenants of the

2324
02:07:01,800 --> 02:07:04,160
Lord, which he has made under
the House of Israel, and also

2325
02:07:04,160 --> 02:07:06,640
containeth many of the
prophecies of the holy prophets.

2326
02:07:07,160 --> 02:07:08,920
So they had a good edition of
the Old Testament.

2327
02:07:09,360 --> 02:07:11,360
It's a record.
He goes on here like unto the

2328
02:07:11,360 --> 02:07:13,600
engravings which are upon the
plates of brass.

2329
02:07:13,960 --> 02:07:16,560
Remember the bronze plates were
handed, were brought down.

2330
02:07:16,760 --> 02:07:18,280
That was the record that Lehi
had.

2331
02:07:18,280 --> 02:07:20,320
He says that's about the same
thing.

2332
02:07:20,600 --> 02:07:23,800
He saw that later the Gentiles
would have the Bible, the Old

2333
02:07:23,800 --> 02:07:26,240
Testament, very much like the
bronze plates with that his

2334
02:07:26,240 --> 02:07:29,040
father had, except that they are
not so many.

2335
02:07:29,200 --> 02:07:34,640
We don't have even as many as he
had, meaning Lehi, right?

2336
02:07:35,040 --> 02:07:37,760
And lots of people came after
him.

2337
02:07:38,240 --> 02:07:40,840
You see, his friend was
Jeremiah, and there was a lot

2338
02:07:40,840 --> 02:07:43,120
written after him that wasn't
recorded in the Book of Mormon.

2339
02:07:43,640 --> 02:07:46,680
Well, they contain the covenants
of the Lord under the House of

2340
02:07:46,680 --> 02:07:49,320
Israel, wherefore they are of
great worth unto the Gentiles.

2341
02:07:50,200 --> 02:07:51,720
They are of great worth to
anyone.

2342
02:07:52,480 --> 02:07:56,200
And then Professor Albright, who
has talked here and has an

2343
02:07:56,200 --> 02:07:59,040
honorary degree from here, the
most distinguished biblical

2344
02:07:59,040 --> 02:08:02,040
scholar America has ever
produced, William Foxwell

2345
02:08:02,040 --> 02:08:04,040
Albright.
I'll never forget what he said

2346
02:08:04,040 --> 02:08:08,080
when we came to the airport.
My it feels good to get away

2347
02:08:08,080 --> 02:08:10,320
from those anemic Protestants,
he said.

2348
02:08:11,000 --> 02:08:13,600
Well, the Pearl Great Price is
not anemic.

2349
02:08:13,800 --> 02:08:16,680
It carries a wallop, as
Professor Albright puts it.

2350
02:08:16,840 --> 02:08:20,880
He says our Hebrew text has
suffered more from losses than

2351
02:08:20,880 --> 02:08:23,760
from glosses.
Glosses are changes and

2352
02:08:23,760 --> 02:08:27,280
corrections by scribes and
alter, alterations, notations,

2353
02:08:27,320 --> 02:08:31,280
those things that isn't what has
damaged the Bible, its losses,

2354
02:08:31,280 --> 02:08:34,200
the stuff that has been removed,
that's where it really suffers.

2355
02:08:34,240 --> 02:08:37,360
And he proceeds to illustrate
the point from a number of books

2356
02:08:37,360 --> 02:08:42,120
showing, he says, quote, future
translations will have to expand

2357
02:08:42,120 --> 02:08:44,960
the text substantially,
including some passages of great

2358
02:08:44,960 --> 02:08:48,240
importance in their content that
are missing from the Bible

2359
02:08:48,240 --> 02:08:51,880
because they've been removed.
They are being restored now, and

2360
02:08:51,880 --> 02:08:54,120
this is our original proposition
in the Book of Mormon.

2361
02:08:54,680 --> 02:08:57,680
They have taken away, says
Nephi, many parts that were most

2362
02:08:57,680 --> 02:09:00,840
precious, and these are to be
restored by bringing forth other

2363
02:09:00,840 --> 02:09:03,920
books and records.
He says, well, do we have them

2364
02:09:05,320 --> 02:09:09,320
first, Nephi 1326 says they have
taken away from the gospel of

2365
02:09:09,320 --> 02:09:12,360
the Lamb many parts in the New
Testament, you see, which are

2366
02:09:12,360 --> 02:09:15,360
plain and most precious, and
also many covenants of the Lord

2367
02:09:15,360 --> 02:09:17,680
have they taken away.
This is all from the 13th

2368
02:09:17,680 --> 02:09:20,400
chapter, and it's the great and
abominable church.

2369
02:09:21,120 --> 02:09:23,360
But remember that they were
taken away before the Roman

2370
02:09:23,360 --> 02:09:26,080
Catholic Church appeared at all
by the great and abominable

2371
02:09:26,080 --> 02:09:29,280
Church.
It tells us in First Nephi 22

2372
02:09:29,360 --> 02:09:31,920
that it designates any who fight
against Israel.

2373
02:09:32,000 --> 02:09:34,360
It is, It doesn't pinpoint any
particular church here.

2374
02:09:34,760 --> 02:09:37,480
Any who fight against Israel,
are they great and abominable?

2375
02:09:37,480 --> 02:09:40,360
He tells us.
And after these great, these

2376
02:09:40,360 --> 02:09:43,200
plain and precious things were
taken away, it goes forth unto

2377
02:09:43,200 --> 02:09:46,240
all the nations of the Gentiles.
The records didn't go forth from

2378
02:09:46,240 --> 02:09:48,920
Palestine until after they've
been plundered and the

2379
02:09:48,920 --> 02:09:51,640
objectionable, objectionable
parts removed.

2380
02:09:52,080 --> 02:09:55,360
Now this is the result of it,
the next verse, because these

2381
02:09:55,360 --> 02:09:58,880
things which are taken away out
of the gospel of the Lamb and

2382
02:09:58,880 --> 02:10:01,000
exceeding great, many do
stumble.

2383
02:10:01,040 --> 02:10:03,720
And that's what happens.
Of course, we walk, we are able

2384
02:10:03,720 --> 02:10:07,040
to get along, but we stumble.
We don't agree on what we read.

2385
02:10:07,240 --> 02:10:10,280
We can't get over the passages.
And because of this, this

2386
02:10:10,280 --> 02:10:12,840
disagreement, it shows that we
are not walking in a straight

2387
02:10:12,840 --> 02:10:16,400
and simple path, in the plain
path, as the Scripture says, in

2388
02:10:16,400 --> 02:10:19,200
the plain way, which
incidentally is a good Egyptian

2389
02:10:19,200 --> 02:10:23,720
expression today.
The whole scholar scholarly

2390
02:10:23,720 --> 02:10:26,880
world is, by its own admission,
stumbling around in the dark.

2391
02:10:27,760 --> 02:10:30,680
I'm quoting from chapter Dodd,
who is also visited here.

2392
02:10:30,680 --> 02:10:34,000
He says a new integrating
pattern is what we need.

2393
02:10:34,320 --> 02:10:37,600
He wonders what we can, what can
possibly be the point of an

2394
02:10:37,600 --> 02:10:41,040
entire of the entire corpus.
We've lost everything is what he

2395
02:10:41,040 --> 02:10:43,840
is telling us here in editing
that big book on the New

2396
02:10:43,840 --> 02:10:46,400
Testament.
And Nephi tells us again here

2397
02:10:46,400 --> 02:10:48,880
that there were certain things
that he was not allowed to write

2398
02:10:48,880 --> 02:10:51,440
down because he said that they
would be written down by John.

2399
02:10:51,920 --> 02:10:54,360
And they are sealed up to come
forth in their purity according

2400
02:10:54,360 --> 02:10:55,680
to the truth which is in the
Lamb.

2401
02:10:56,280 --> 02:10:59,160
Well, has that time come?
Yes, it has.

2402
02:10:59,400 --> 02:11:02,000
We have a lot given us from the
very first.

2403
02:11:02,360 --> 02:11:04,240
That's in the 14th chapter of
Nephi.

2404
02:11:04,240 --> 02:11:06,920
So we have here these books of
restoration.

2405
02:11:07,200 --> 02:11:10,280
The most important restoration
of books to date has been the

2406
02:11:10,280 --> 02:11:12,720
Pearl of Great Price because it
contains nothing but

2407
02:11:12,720 --> 02:11:16,920
manuscripts, first hand
writings, purportedly just brief

2408
02:11:16,920 --> 02:11:18,920
excerpts, but adequate for their
purpose.

2409
02:11:19,320 --> 02:11:21,840
Some of them are not so brief,
but they are excerpts from the

2410
02:11:21,840 --> 02:11:24,760
writings of the founders of the
great dispensations of the past.

2411
02:11:25,320 --> 02:11:28,720
Eight different writers have
contributed what purport to be

2412
02:11:28,720 --> 02:11:31,280
original writings in the Pearl
of Great Price.

2413
02:11:31,320 --> 02:11:35,120
Now in 1830, nobody could test
anything like that, but this is

2414
02:11:35,120 --> 02:11:37,320
what is so significant about the
Pearl of Great Price.

2415
02:11:37,320 --> 02:11:41,640
Now on to the point.
He continues saying the Book of

2416
02:11:41,640 --> 02:11:44,360
Mormon doesn't restore lost
parts of the Bible.

2417
02:11:45,040 --> 02:11:48,960
It contains passages not handed
down in our Bible that they are

2418
02:11:48,960 --> 02:11:50,760
quoted from the from the brass
plates.

2419
02:11:50,840 --> 02:11:54,240
You find them quoted by Abinadi
and Helaman and Nephi and

2420
02:11:54,240 --> 02:11:56,440
they've come up in documents
that have been found in the Book

2421
02:11:56,440 --> 02:11:58,920
of Mormon since the Book of
Mormon came forth.

2422
02:11:59,320 --> 02:12:02,720
But at their its purpose was not
to restore these last passages

2423
02:12:02,720 --> 02:12:05,560
of the Bible.
They come in incidentally, when

2424
02:12:05,560 --> 02:12:08,680
Abinadi quotes the book of
Enoch, Helaman and Nephi quote

2425
02:12:08,680 --> 02:12:12,120
some marvelous passages and it
was all written after the Old

2426
02:12:12,120 --> 02:12:14,240
Testament.
Malachi was the only book that

2427
02:12:14,240 --> 02:12:17,640
had to be added when Christ
comes back, right?

2428
02:12:18,600 --> 02:12:20,880
The Old Testament had already
been completed then.

2429
02:12:20,880 --> 02:12:23,120
So the Book of Mormon is not
going to give us anything new.

2430
02:12:23,600 --> 02:12:26,840
And the great doctrinal
teachings such as those of Alma,

2431
02:12:26,840 --> 02:12:31,560
Nephi, Ammon Moroni, Mormon, all
of those are direct revelations.

2432
02:12:31,640 --> 02:12:33,320
They are not restored from old
books.

2433
02:12:33,560 --> 02:12:35,840
We're not talking about that
particular theme now.

2434
02:12:36,160 --> 02:12:38,880
These are all direct revelations
we have coming down.

2435
02:12:41,640 --> 02:12:42,880
Let's see, I'm going to skip a
bit.

2436
02:12:49,280 --> 02:12:51,760
He goes on and says it doesn't
restore what was lost from the

2437
02:12:51,760 --> 02:12:54,200
Bible because that story was
never told in the Bible.

2438
02:12:54,240 --> 02:12:56,680
He was actually talk.
So the part I skipped over, he

2439
02:12:56,680 --> 02:13:00,160
talks about how there's no
literature, Jewish, Christian or

2440
02:13:00,160 --> 02:13:04,360
Muslim, that talk about the
Tower of Abel or what's going on

2441
02:13:04,360 --> 02:13:06,320
at that time period.
Like there's no, there's no

2442
02:13:06,320 --> 02:13:10,760
extra work explaining that.
What the Bible doesn't explain,

2443
02:13:11,320 --> 02:13:13,160
the only thing that does is the
Book of Ether in the Book of

2444
02:13:13,160 --> 02:13:15,280
Mormon, to give some more
details, you know.

2445
02:13:16,120 --> 02:13:18,320
But he says that.
But that doesn't even restore

2446
02:13:19,280 --> 02:13:21,440
what was in the Bible because
that was never in the Bible.

2447
02:13:21,440 --> 02:13:23,560
It was a record kept by the
Jaredites, right?

2448
02:13:24,320 --> 02:13:26,200
That's one by itself.
It's peculiar.

2449
02:13:26,280 --> 02:13:28,560
Likewise, the Doctrine of
Covenants is for the modern

2450
02:13:28,560 --> 02:13:31,000
church in your own time,
sections have been added to the

2451
02:13:31,000 --> 02:13:33,720
Doctrine of Covenants, such as
the vision of Joseph F Smith.

2452
02:13:34,200 --> 02:13:36,960
But it's the Pearl of great
price alone to date that

2453
02:13:36,960 --> 02:13:39,480
restores the precious parts of
what were removed from the

2454
02:13:39,480 --> 02:13:44,440
scriptures.
And see, that's, that's

2455
02:13:44,440 --> 02:13:47,480
fascinating, right?
Because for so long there's been

2456
02:13:47,480 --> 02:13:51,840
this, this idea that it's the
Book of Mormon that replaces

2457
02:13:51,840 --> 02:13:55,000
those simple truths, or I
shouldn't say simple truths,

2458
02:13:55,000 --> 02:13:57,840
those great and marvelous truths
is what I think it, it refers

2459
02:13:57,840 --> 02:13:59,240
to, right?
I don't think it ever.

2460
02:13:59,240 --> 02:14:00,640
Plain and precious, but
marvelous.

2461
02:14:00,640 --> 02:14:04,920
Yes.
And so if, if that's the case,

2462
02:14:05,400 --> 02:14:08,280
that is the Pearl, great price
that does it, which would make

2463
02:14:08,280 --> 02:14:11,720
sense, right?
Because that not only tells you

2464
02:14:11,960 --> 02:14:14,720
what's happening, but it tells
you what was going on before

2465
02:14:14,720 --> 02:14:16,760
mortality.
We'll talk a little bit about

2466
02:14:16,760 --> 02:14:19,920
after mortality.
Likewise, I, I think that you'd

2467
02:14:19,920 --> 02:14:23,120
have to look at the inspired
version of, of the Bible that

2468
02:14:23,120 --> 02:14:27,200
Joseph does as part of that rest
restorative work, right?

2469
02:14:28,200 --> 02:14:31,440
And that does put the Book of
Mormon, I think in its proper

2470
02:14:31,440 --> 02:14:36,360
place as another witness, right?
Not the restorative mechanism by

2471
02:14:36,360 --> 02:14:37,800
which those things are brought
forth.

2472
02:14:38,120 --> 02:14:41,080
Right, and it's interesting.
So you have the book of woman

2473
02:14:41,080 --> 02:14:45,440
coming forth as an additional
witness and it's the premise is

2474
02:14:45,440 --> 02:14:47,440
given there from the very
beginning of the restoration,

2475
02:14:47,520 --> 02:14:49,240
things have been removed or
changed.

2476
02:14:50,720 --> 02:14:55,240
And while the people compiling
the record, the historical

2477
02:14:55,240 --> 02:14:58,920
record of that branch of the
House of Israel, they obviously

2478
02:14:58,920 --> 02:15:00,960
like he says of Benedict is
quoting the book of Enoch.

2479
02:15:01,120 --> 02:15:03,520
I found that Samuel the
Lamanites quoting the Book of

2480
02:15:03,520 --> 02:15:05,680
Enoch, but it doesn't restore
that.

2481
02:15:06,960 --> 02:15:09,240
Right.
But the Pearl grey price does

2482
02:15:09,240 --> 02:15:11,680
and that was the next thing.
The book of Moses was the next

2483
02:15:11,680 --> 02:15:13,360
thing that Joseph was given by
revelation.

2484
02:15:13,600 --> 02:15:16,960
So immediately after the Book of
Mormon laying the preface and

2485
02:15:16,960 --> 02:15:20,200
the premise for oh, things have
been lost.

2486
02:15:21,280 --> 02:15:23,720
But then it's restored
immediately after in the book of

2487
02:15:23,720 --> 02:15:24,840
Moses.
Yep.

2488
02:15:24,840 --> 02:15:28,400
Which is, as Nibbly points out,
is really it's, yeah, there's

2489
02:15:28,400 --> 02:15:30,440
the 1st chapter is the book of
Moses, right, Because that's

2490
02:15:30,520 --> 02:15:33,960
dealing with Moses.
The the next is the books of

2491
02:15:33,960 --> 02:15:35,880
Adam and Eve.
Then it's the books of Enoch,

2492
02:15:35,960 --> 02:15:38,120
books of Noah, you know, and
then it goes on.

2493
02:15:38,440 --> 02:15:42,800
The book of Abraham is also
restored content from Abraham,

2494
02:15:42,800 --> 02:15:45,680
right.
And then Jesus Christ with, with

2495
02:15:45,680 --> 02:15:48,840
Joseph Smith, Matthew, stuff
that's restored with what Christ

2496
02:15:48,880 --> 02:15:51,800
gave in the New Testament, stuff
that was removed.

2497
02:15:52,120 --> 02:15:57,200
Yep, Yep, absolutely.
And it just lends more credence

2498
02:15:57,200 --> 02:16:00,600
to what Joseph was doing, right.
And here's the other thing that

2499
02:16:00,600 --> 02:16:05,360
I'll say.
I think for us as Mormons, I

2500
02:16:05,360 --> 02:16:10,680
think we fall into a trap, which
is sometimes we don't appreciate

2501
02:16:10,680 --> 02:16:13,560
enough what Joseph's mission
was, right?

2502
02:16:13,840 --> 02:16:18,080
Or we don't understand the
breadth of what he was doing

2503
02:16:18,680 --> 02:16:20,840
right.
We think, well, he restored some

2504
02:16:20,840 --> 02:16:24,760
temple covenants, brought back
the priesthood, translated the

2505
02:16:24,760 --> 02:16:26,720
Book of Mormon, all great
things.

2506
02:16:27,640 --> 02:16:30,160
But then we stopped there,
right?

2507
02:16:30,160 --> 02:16:34,480
And, and it is incumbent upon us
to look at this with different

2508
02:16:34,480 --> 02:16:37,840
eyes for a while and understand
the breadth of what he's doing

2509
02:16:38,799 --> 02:16:40,600
to really appreciate where he's
at.

2510
02:16:42,240 --> 02:16:46,799
I think so it's it's phenomenal
the things that in in the order,

2511
02:16:46,840 --> 02:16:51,520
you know, so the, the book of
Moses coming out and the I guess

2512
02:16:51,520 --> 02:16:58,879
the, the whole Bible translation
coming out as a reward for the

2513
02:16:58,879 --> 02:17:00,520
early Saints accepting the Book
of Mormon.

2514
02:17:00,639 --> 02:17:02,200
So they were given more.
Right.

2515
02:17:02,559 --> 02:17:07,280
Yeah, from the very beginning.
And and so, but then four years

2516
02:17:07,280 --> 02:17:11,559
later, the Egyptian papyri shows
up in Joseph Smith's life.

2517
02:17:11,879 --> 02:17:13,879
Yeah, you know, and then he
translates the Book of Abraham

2518
02:17:14,320 --> 02:17:16,559
and they're working on the
temple in the Kirtland Temple.

2519
02:17:17,240 --> 02:17:20,400
And my brother-in-law pointed
out to me that while they're

2520
02:17:20,400 --> 02:17:22,160
building the Kirtland Temple,
Joseph Smith's getting the

2521
02:17:22,160 --> 02:17:25,000
revelations from the Lord,
saying you build this temple and

2522
02:17:25,000 --> 02:17:27,840
I will give you the covenants of
the Lord.

2523
02:17:28,520 --> 02:17:32,200
And that's the same time period
that the book of Abraham comes.

2524
02:17:32,200 --> 02:17:34,799
But that's where the endowment
stuff, Yeah, comes out of.

2525
02:17:35,160 --> 02:17:37,840
That's exactly right.
While our current temple

2526
02:17:37,840 --> 02:17:41,160
ordinances of the full endowment
were not given in the Kirtland

2527
02:17:41,160 --> 02:17:44,840
Temple, but it was restored when
that temple, Yep, the material

2528
02:17:44,840 --> 02:17:47,120
given to restore that was given
the same time that temple was

2529
02:17:47,120 --> 02:17:49,080
built.
Absolutely, Absolutely.

2530
02:17:49,080 --> 02:17:52,879
Who do we have Moses, Elias and
Eliah coming to restore the keys

2531
02:17:52,879 --> 02:17:55,000
to do that work?
Absolutely.

2532
02:17:55,320 --> 02:17:59,320
And and that, you know, the
Kirtland era is fascinating

2533
02:17:59,320 --> 02:18:06,280
because of that, right, because
it, it's the Kirtland era is a

2534
02:18:06,280 --> 02:18:08,840
bridge, right?
It's the first time that I think

2535
02:18:08,840 --> 02:18:14,400
we start to see Mormonism start
to really not look similar to

2536
02:18:14,400 --> 02:18:18,680
Protestantism, right, Because up
to that point, like if you were

2537
02:18:18,680 --> 02:18:23,480
to give somebody who had no idea
of quote deeper Mormon doctrines

2538
02:18:23,480 --> 02:18:25,240
and you just gave them the Book
of Mormon.

2539
02:18:25,240 --> 02:18:28,160
And this isn't this isn't a
critique of the Book of Mormon

2540
02:18:28,160 --> 02:18:29,440
either.
I want to make that clear.

2541
02:18:31,240 --> 02:18:35,280
You could you could make some
more Protestant esque arguments

2542
02:18:35,280 --> 02:18:37,320
from the Book of Mormon.
Some people have, right?

2543
02:18:37,440 --> 02:18:41,240
And some people have.
It's not until the Kirtland era

2544
02:18:41,240 --> 02:18:44,280
that things start to look a
little different, right?

2545
02:18:44,280 --> 02:18:47,520
That all the sudden we start
talking about ordinances and we

2546
02:18:47,520 --> 02:18:53,040
start talking about keys and all
these things that would become,

2547
02:18:53,480 --> 02:18:57,559
that would blossom into fruition
in Naboo and subsequently

2548
02:18:57,559 --> 02:18:59,000
through the rest of Mormonism.
No.

2549
02:18:59,000 --> 02:19:01,160
And it's a restoration of
ancient Christianity.

2550
02:19:01,160 --> 02:19:04,760
You know, it's a how do I want
to segue into that?

2551
02:19:09,879 --> 02:19:16,000
You say, for example, on the
face Mormonism looked like the

2552
02:19:16,879 --> 02:19:18,959
IT looked Christian, Christian Y
Christian, right?

2553
02:19:19,680 --> 02:19:22,440
And for example, I would love to
know to what extent the book of

2554
02:19:22,440 --> 02:19:25,680
Moses was read in those early
days before the Kirtland era,

2555
02:19:25,680 --> 02:19:28,120
because it says at the very end
of the first chapter show this

2556
02:19:28,120 --> 02:19:29,959
not unto those except them who
believe.

2557
02:19:29,959 --> 02:19:31,480
So how widely circulated was
that?

2558
02:19:31,480 --> 02:19:34,879
So if they so if they only had
the Book of Mormon really being

2559
02:19:34,920 --> 02:19:37,520
taught and promoted in the early
years.

2560
02:19:38,320 --> 02:19:40,799
They're not even being exposed
to all this until who knows

2561
02:19:40,799 --> 02:19:42,120
when.
I know for sure it wasn't

2562
02:19:42,120 --> 02:19:45,280
canonized until John Taylor's
presidency in 1880.

2563
02:19:45,959 --> 02:19:49,480
And that's when you start
getting into the covenant stuff

2564
02:19:49,960 --> 02:19:52,160
and it restores that Joseph did
restore that.

2565
02:19:52,480 --> 02:19:55,200
But going back to the early
Christians to I was reading

2566
02:19:55,200 --> 02:19:57,920
something and that like you, you
know, I, I don't note

2567
02:19:57,920 --> 02:19:59,680
something's down.
So I don't remember where this

2568
02:19:59,680 --> 02:20:02,480
was, but I was reading it was
either after the destruction of

2569
02:20:02,480 --> 02:20:05,120
the Jerusalem by the Romans that
the early Christians.

2570
02:20:07,800 --> 02:20:10,440
Wanted to go back to Jerusalem
and build a temple on the Mount

2571
02:20:10,440 --> 02:20:13,360
of Olives or was during the
Crusades when they retook the

2572
02:20:13,360 --> 02:20:15,880
Holy Land, they were going to
build a temple right on the

2573
02:20:15,880 --> 02:20:18,720
Mount of Olives where Christ,
which is what Christ treated as

2574
02:20:18,720 --> 02:20:20,760
a temple.
It shows you that the and I

2575
02:20:20,760 --> 02:20:24,820
think it was probably the early
Christians, but that's mind

2576
02:20:24,820 --> 02:20:27,600
blowing to me.
Yeah, absolutely mind blowing.

2577
02:20:27,920 --> 02:20:34,480
And it shows you the word that
some people he nibbly uses this

2578
02:20:34,480 --> 02:20:36,400
all the time.
You know, if you read his stuff,

2579
02:20:36,480 --> 02:20:41,960
it says they're hierophantic
literature or texts, but it's or

2580
02:20:41,960 --> 02:20:44,800
elements, you know, which means
the temple, right, Temple

2581
02:20:44,800 --> 02:20:45,920
elements.
And it's all throughout the

2582
02:20:45,920 --> 02:20:50,760
early Scripture.
You know, for example, in the

2583
02:20:50,760 --> 02:20:55,880
the books of Adam and Eve that I
quoted earlier, that is quoted

2584
02:20:55,880 --> 02:20:59,360
from an older book which has two
names.

2585
02:20:59,360 --> 02:21:03,880
It's called, it has the the life
of Adam and Eve is one name of

2586
02:21:03,880 --> 02:21:07,440
it, but it's also, the Greek
version is called the Apocalypse

2587
02:21:07,440 --> 02:21:08,600
of Moses.
OK.

2588
02:21:09,680 --> 02:21:12,560
You know, the apocalypse means.
Yeah, revealing it means

2589
02:21:12,560 --> 02:21:13,840
revealing it's a revelation.
Yeah.

2590
02:21:14,560 --> 02:21:18,160
So there's an early script,
Christian work says the

2591
02:21:18,160 --> 02:21:20,440
Revelation of Moses that talks
about Adam and Eve.

2592
02:21:20,560 --> 02:21:22,360
Yeah.
Pretty fascinating.

2593
02:21:22,360 --> 02:21:23,600
Pretty fascinating.
Yeah.

2594
02:21:23,840 --> 02:21:28,920
And in it, and this goes back
full circle to like we we read

2595
02:21:28,920 --> 02:21:32,000
earlier, like Satan appears to
to Abel says I want to kill you.

2596
02:21:32,960 --> 02:21:35,880
Watch out.
Then he goes to Canaan to get

2597
02:21:35,880 --> 02:21:40,320
that whole thing running right
in the apocalypse of Moses,

2598
02:21:40,800 --> 02:21:43,320
which is what the life of or
what the books of Adam and Eve

2599
02:21:43,320 --> 02:21:48,760
are quoting from Satan's
repeatingly just appearing to

2600
02:21:48,760 --> 02:21:52,600
Adam before Cain and Abel are
born, I think and Adam asks him,

2601
02:21:52,600 --> 02:21:54,360
why are you persecuting me?
Why don't you just leave me

2602
02:21:54,360 --> 02:21:56,680
alone?
I've already cast you out.

2603
02:21:56,680 --> 02:21:57,800
Whatever.
Just leave me alone.

2604
02:21:58,360 --> 02:22:03,680
And Satan says, you know, you
don't remember, but you're the

2605
02:22:03,680 --> 02:22:06,640
reason I fell, because I because
I refuse to worship you.

2606
02:22:06,960 --> 02:22:10,040
Which insinuates the veil.
Adam was under the veil.

2607
02:22:10,560 --> 02:22:15,280
It It corroborates the early
literature that we read on our

2608
02:22:15,280 --> 02:22:17,920
last podcast.
Yeah.

2609
02:22:19,000 --> 02:22:22,320
Yeah, that's some deep stuff.
Yeah.

2610
02:22:23,000 --> 02:22:28,200
It goes on to talk about how
when Adam was old and dying, he

2611
02:22:28,200 --> 02:22:32,760
sent Seth back to the Garden of
Eden to go get the oil from the

2612
02:22:32,760 --> 02:22:36,720
tree of life so that he could
anoint him on his on his head

2613
02:22:36,720 --> 02:22:39,120
and his ears and his eyes and
his mouth and nose and stuff

2614
02:22:39,120 --> 02:22:45,320
like that if I'm not mistaken.
And then Michael the Archangel

2615
02:22:45,320 --> 02:22:49,080
appears to Seth in the Garden of
Eden and says, you can't have

2616
02:22:49,080 --> 02:22:55,320
this oil now, but when the
Savior comes, you will have the

2617
02:22:55,320 --> 02:22:57,840
anointing that will, you know,
give you eternal life.

2618
02:22:58,120 --> 02:23:01,720
But the imagery of that, this is
a hierophantic text because

2619
02:23:01,800 --> 02:23:03,440
where is Seth going?
The Garden of Eden.

2620
02:23:03,880 --> 02:23:06,120
What is the Garden of Eden?
It's the Holy of Holies.

2621
02:23:06,280 --> 02:23:08,560
Right.
Symbolically, Yep.

2622
02:23:08,800 --> 02:23:11,440
To get the oil to anoint.
You know that's not just your

2623
02:23:11,440 --> 02:23:13,680
Washington.
It's not your initiatory

2624
02:23:13,680 --> 02:23:17,000
ordinance, no.
No, we're talking higher.

2625
02:23:17,280 --> 02:23:20,480
Yeah.
And so this is temple literature

2626
02:23:20,640 --> 02:23:23,440
in early Christianity.
This is stuff that would have

2627
02:23:23,440 --> 02:23:27,480
been, yeah, it's stuff that you
can read to your children and

2628
02:23:27,480 --> 02:23:29,880
they're not going to get it.
But it's also the stuff that

2629
02:23:29,880 --> 02:23:33,120
when you're the priesthood
council, councils are meeting,

2630
02:23:33,440 --> 02:23:36,080
the elders are together, this is
the text that you're going to be

2631
02:23:36,080 --> 02:23:37,680
using for your temple
ceremonies.

2632
02:23:37,680 --> 02:23:38,960
Yep.
Absolutely.

2633
02:23:39,600 --> 02:23:45,800
And it again, and I know I've
said this before, man, Joseph

2634
02:23:45,800 --> 02:23:47,480
Smith was just a heck of a
guesser.

2635
02:23:47,760 --> 02:23:49,800
Yep.
Because to hit these kind of

2636
02:23:49,800 --> 02:23:51,920
bull's eyes.
Oh, it gets better.

2637
02:23:52,480 --> 02:23:55,600
You want another one?
Yeah, OK, I don't want to cut

2638
02:23:55,600 --> 02:23:58,280
you off, but so Adam's dying,
right?

2639
02:23:58,280 --> 02:24:04,680
As I just explained, Michael the
Archangel comes and brings him

2640
02:24:04,680 --> 02:24:09,960
to heaven and bear and and he's
buried by God there, you know,

2641
02:24:10,400 --> 02:24:12,880
in heaven, so he doesn't die.
Right.

2642
02:24:13,560 --> 02:24:16,240
But he ascends to heaven in the
apocalypse of Moses.

2643
02:24:16,240 --> 02:24:19,520
OK, that's interesting.
Yeah, very interesting.

2644
02:24:20,640 --> 02:24:24,160
Now, and, and you have to wonder
about, you know, 'cause we know

2645
02:24:24,160 --> 02:24:26,440
Michael and Adam are the same
person, right?

2646
02:24:26,480 --> 02:24:28,360
So what's what's?
Really happening there?

2647
02:24:28,360 --> 02:24:30,840
What's really?
Happening with quote Michael

2648
02:24:30,840 --> 02:24:32,760
coming to get him.
Yeah, absolutely.

2649
02:24:33,320 --> 02:24:35,120
Oh yeah.
There's there's some stuff.

2650
02:24:35,120 --> 02:24:36,880
Here, Mormon, you you see what's
going on?

2651
02:24:36,880 --> 02:24:37,800
There.
Yep, Yep.

2652
02:24:37,920 --> 02:24:39,840
If you're an Adam, Adam got it
here.

2653
02:24:39,840 --> 02:24:42,440
And this, it makes perfect
sense.

2654
02:24:42,880 --> 02:24:44,800
Yeah.
So yeah, absolutely.

2655
02:24:45,400 --> 02:24:47,360
Well, dude, is that it?
That's it, dude.

2656
02:24:47,360 --> 02:24:48,920
That was good stuff.
Thank you.

2657
02:24:49,000 --> 02:24:50,480
Next month.
Next month.

2658
02:24:50,840 --> 02:24:54,080
When if someone wants to join
online, how do they get a hold

2659
02:24:54,080 --> 02:24:56,120
of you?
You won't have them Get a hold

2660
02:24:56,120 --> 02:24:57,840
of me first so I can run
interference.

2661
02:25:00,360 --> 02:25:05,680
You, you can reach out to Dave,
and if Dave thinks you're cool

2662
02:25:05,680 --> 02:25:09,040
enough, then then yeah, he'll
he'll send you my way.

2663
02:25:09,040 --> 02:25:11,880
But no, really, I mean, you
can't.

2664
02:25:11,880 --> 02:25:17,760
You can find me on Facebook.
Michael Ness, send me a friend

2665
02:25:17,760 --> 02:25:18,720
request.
I don't know.

2666
02:25:19,120 --> 02:25:20,960
You can.
I'm not afraid of being gotten a

2667
02:25:20,960 --> 02:25:23,480
hold of, you know, as far as
that goes.

2668
02:25:23,480 --> 02:25:25,600
So.
But yeah, we've been adding

2669
02:25:25,600 --> 02:25:28,440
people like crazy to that chat.
And you can see the videos that

2670
02:25:28,440 --> 02:25:34,200
will be recorded for the actual
class in that setting, as well

2671
02:25:34,200 --> 02:25:39,600
as discussion and lots of
commentary that I give that I'm

2672
02:25:39,600 --> 02:25:43,080
afraid bores people to tears.
No, it doesn't bore anybody.

2673
02:25:43,160 --> 02:25:44,320
It's.
Fascinating stuff.

2674
02:25:44,360 --> 02:25:47,840
The the classes are good and and
the hopes are is that these

2675
02:25:47,840 --> 02:25:52,080
podcasts can be can be kind of
an appendage to those.

2676
02:25:52,280 --> 02:25:55,480
So because we end up talking
about different stuff than what

2677
02:25:55,520 --> 02:25:59,840
actually goes on in the class.
So it is different, but fun

2678
02:25:59,840 --> 02:26:02,200
nonetheless.
Absolutely awesome.

2679
02:26:02,600 --> 02:26:04,200
Well dude, we'll do it next
month.

2680
02:26:04,800 --> 02:26:05,640
Absolutely.
All right.

2681
02:26:05,960 --> 02:26:38,720
Bye everybody.
You're listening to the Mormon

2682
02:26:38,720 --> 02:26:40,160
Renegade podcast.