Episode #132: Taking The Gospel To Lehi's Children W/Jeff, Vanessa & Sharis Alldredge

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OK, I've been super excited to
have you listen to this episode.

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But first, let me ask you a
question.

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How good have we as Mormons,
both LDS and fundamentalist,

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been at taking the gospel to
Lehigh's posterity?

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If you're like me, you kind of
shifted uncomfortably in your

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chair a little bit.
Now, look, I know that we all

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have things to do and that we're
all super busy and doing some

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really, really great things.
But this subject is no less

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important.
Today.

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I have Jeff, Vanessa, and
Charisse Aldridge on the podcast

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to talk about this very subject.
Along the way, we cover things

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ranging from what does the
phrase fullness of the gospel

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really mean?
Mormonism's interactions with

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the Native Americans, how we
have fallen down on this very

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important command, and finally
what we must do if we desire the

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blessings that the Lord has for
us in these last days.

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That and more on this episode of
the Mormon Renegade podcast.

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So a few weeks back, I told you
about a new online merch store I

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was putting together and that I
would let you know as soon as

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that was up and running.
Well, after a few weeks of

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working on designs and testing
it out personally, we're ready

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to launch.
So if you go to

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mormonrenegade.com and click on
the Renegade supply button in

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the top right of the landing
page or click the link in this

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episode's show notes, you'll see
that we have 16 items right now

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that you can choose from.
We have shirts, hats, bags,

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cups, and water bottles all with
the Mormon Renegade logo, as

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well as a couple other designs
that I think you'll find really

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funny and maybe even one where I
take a slight shot at BYU, But

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you should definitely go check
that out.

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Now, this is just the beginning.
In the coming weeks, more

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designs and styles will be
available for purchase.

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Now all the proceeds I get from
this are going to go right back

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into the podcast.
So head on over to

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mormonrenegade.com and press the
Renegade Supply button or click

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the link in this episode's show
notes and get yours today.

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You're listening to the Mormon
Renegade podcast.

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Jeff, how you doing?
I'm doing pretty good, Good,

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pretty good, Dave.
Why don't you?

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Why don't you introduce the the
women sitting next to you there?

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All righty, I'll do that On this
side over here is my wife

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Vanessa.
Hello.

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Hi and this is Cherise.
Hello, Dave.

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How you doing we're?
Doing good.

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Good.
You know, I Michael Ness shout

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out to him was the one that that
kind of said, you know, you

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should really look at talking to
Jeff Aldridge and then my buddy

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Taylor who's been on here a
couple of times.

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He's like, you know what, what
have you been working on lately?

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And I, I told him what we were
gonna talk about tonight and

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he's like, I know exactly who
you need to talk to.

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And so, so shout out to both of
those guys for, for helping me

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get in touch with you and stuff.
So, and we've talked off the

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podcast here a couple of times
and just had a great discussion.

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So I'm, I'm super thankful that
that you were willing to come

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on.
I really appreciate that.

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And really, I mean, gosh, in
some ways this must might be a

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little easier for you than like
having a whole TV crew in your

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home, so.
Maybe they can be pretty goofy,

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right?
Takes a slap mile.

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Yeah, so now Jeff, were you were
you born the.

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Question we throw down but.
Good enough Were you?

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Were you born into
fundamentalism, Jeff?

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I was not.
I was raised in the mainstream

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church till I was 40.
What?

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What led you?
What led you out?

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Oh wow, that's like 3 podcasts
worth and that's just skimming

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the surface.
I, I'm passionate, always have

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been about the gospel.
Once I, you know, received

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testimony at 16, there was no
looking back.

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Once I knew for myself, I just
always loved the gospel, went on

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a mission, served in Louisiana,
Mississippi.

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And that passion led me to
eventually studying things that,

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you know, are kind of have been
considered taboo, at least from

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the mainstream's perspective.
And it took me probably 10 years

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of really trying to figure out,
you know, how to pursue the

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mysteries without getting, you
know, without feeling guilty or

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getting in trouble.
You know, I was, I was straight

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down the line.
And so it was difficult.

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It was very difficult.
But eventually I started reading

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and one thing led to another and
one inconsistency or one

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doctrine that I had no idea.
And I thought I'd read

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everything.
I realized I hadn't read hardly

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anything.
And so eventually you have to

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pray about it, find out what the
word wants you to do.

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That's that's what kind of led
me out.

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Very cool, very cool.
And then Vanessa, how about you?

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I was raised in the culture.
My grandparents on both sides

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were polygamous.
So I'm I'm raised in

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fundamentalist families.
My parents never lived plural

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marriage.
But in my teenage years, I kind

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of, my mom moved to Seattle and
I moved with her and it was just

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kind of one of those things
where I, there was no social

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pressure for me to choose what
was familiar or what my mom

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wanted.
It was just kind of like, well,

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whatever.
And I, I couldn't shake the

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testimony that I kind of built
over the years.

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It just was in there and I
wasn't pursuing it specifically,

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but it just kept being in the
back of my mind.

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And so my when I was, I don't
know, about 20, I started really

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thinking about it and thinking
about, well, when I get married,

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who do I really want and what I
consider somebody who is

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married.
And I just thought, no, after a

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little bit of prayer, I thought,
yeah, I would, I would consider

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that.
And then shortly thereafter I

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met Jeff.
And you know it was.

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There's a whole story there.
Well.

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Isn't there always but you know.
That's just a pretty wild story.

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Yeah.
So then I met Jeff and, you

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know, it really became clear to
me that he was a great choice.

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And it was he was somebody that
I wanted to marry.

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So I I made that leap and really
have never regretted it.

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That's awesome.
That's awesome.

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How about you?
I was raised with more than one

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mom.
I love them both dearly and they

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both played such an influential
part in in my growing up life

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and turning me into the person I
am now.

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And I, I decided at a fairly
young age that I wanted to be a

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sister wife and I wanted to live
by the example that I'd seen

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both my mom's set and so.
I have.

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There you go.
That's awesome.

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That's awesome.
Well, let's let's just dive in

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here a little bit.
We in Mormonism and and this

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just isn't an indictment on the
church.

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It's not just an indictment on
fundamentalist.

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I think it spans the gamut,
right of, of Mormonism is that

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we haven't done a better job of
taking the gospel to the Native

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Americans.
And as I was talking this over

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with Taylor and said, you know,
I really need to do something on

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this.
I'm feeling impressed to do so.

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Your name came up.
And so I'm, I'm super excited

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to, to dig into this with, with,
with you.

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When did you first start getting
this idea, Jeff, that that this

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is something we had fallen down
on as Mormons as well?

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How long have you been thinking
about this?

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You know, it never entered my
mind that we were falling down.

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I think, I think the idea of
growing up in the church is

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that, you know, we haven't
fallen down.

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You know, the church has been
taken the, you know, missionary

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service to the, to the Native
Americans for, you know, ever

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since the church was the church.
And I, I think it's, it's the,

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it's just the perceived idea
that all is well, kind of a

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thing, you know, that the
missionaries are out there doing

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their thing and, and that's just
what we got to do.

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And so I never really thought
about it until I was my first

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wife and I living in Montana.
And she had a friend who his

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name is Mark Bateman, great guy.
And his uncle was, you know, in

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the corner of the 12 and the
head of BYU.

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And anyway, he used to go down
to Hopi land all the time.

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And one day he offered to take
us down to the to the Hopi, you

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know, Hopi reservation and meet
some of the traditionalist

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elders.
And so we took him up on it and

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went down.
And it was a marvelous

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experience.
But it was, I had never been

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really on to the reservation
before and actually, you know,

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immersed myself in their
culture.

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And so that was probably early,
mid, mid 90s, OK, you know,

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almost 30 years ago.
And we started going down and

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meeting them and I just felt a
draw.

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I mean, growing up, my family
had, we had several placement

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students, you know, in our home.
And I just thought it was great.

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I don't know.
I just really, yeah, yeah.

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Most there was a, a guy by the
name of Jubal Maior that came

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when I was in fourth or fifth
grade.

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We lived in Salt Lake and it was
great to have him in our home.

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He was a year, a year older than
me or maybe two years older than

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me, and then just younger and my
older brother.

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And you know, it was great to
have him.

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And we had several other young
ladies over the years that were

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with us.
And actually, when I was a baby,

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George Pelee's sister was in our
house for a few months.

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Oh wow.
And yeah, that was pretty wild,

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Pretty wild.
So I was exposed that way.

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I had friends, you know, I grew
up in Logan and they were

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friends my age that were on the
placement program that that

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became some of my best friends.
And so I was around it and I

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felt that everything was just
the way things were, weren't

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meant to be.
It really wasn't until, you

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know, I started going and seeing
some of the, some of the things,

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some of the cultural struggles
and started seeing some of the

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discrepancies socially, some of
the heartaches and some of the,

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the, the sadnesses that, that
the Native Americans face, you

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know, and they have faced for a
long time.

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And then started reading and
studying.

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And it just became something
that I was very concerned about.

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And, and I kind of took 3516 as
I started looking and digging

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deeper, one day it just hit me.
I mean, it was literally a

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conference and.
Jeff. 1000 and.

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Jeff, can I get you to speak up
just a little bit?

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I I think your mic's having
trouble picking you up, but

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there a little bit.
I wonder if we can adjust the

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volume.
Is there a so that I don't have

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to yell?
But let's see what we can do

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here.
I don't.

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Know if this will help or not
does.

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That help at all with with
hearing me?

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Little bit, little bit.
OK, you're louder.

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OK, that's good.
Yeah, I'll try to speak a little

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bit louder.
No, you're good.

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So, so you kind of jump into
third and E 516 and and what's

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your take away from that?
You know, that's, that's a

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pretty deep discussion and we
can go over a lot of that kind

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of stuff as well.
I'm, I'm very passionate about

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it because I've spent a lot of
time since I really looked at it

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as more than just one of the
chapters.

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You know, I mean, I had read it
many, many, many times before it

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actually jumped out at me and I
started thinking, what does that

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mean?
You know, this is the Savior

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himself telling us, the
Gentiles, you know, the modern

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church, that if we don't do a
certain thing, which when I

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first saw that, I never really
comprehended what that was, but

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there were certainly some
blessings and some cursings that

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the Savior gave that were real.
Or, you know, usually when the

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Savior speaks, always when the
Savior speaks, he's, you know,

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he means what he says.
I don't think he throws out

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insignificant words.
So.

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When he said you'll be blessed
if you do a certain thing and

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you do it, you will be blessed
because the Savior doesn't lie.

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And when he says you'll be
cursed if you don't do a certain

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thing, then you better take that
pretty seriously as well.

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So I started, you know, I was
living in Arizona and we, my, my

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first wife and I had moved down
there to Arizona.

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00:13:40,960 --> 00:13:43,160
And it really felt that, you
know, it would give us an

224
00:13:43,160 --> 00:13:47,000
opportunity to get to know
Native Americans and to see what

225
00:13:47,000 --> 00:13:50,560
we could do to help.
And so we were, you know, going

226
00:13:50,560 --> 00:13:54,120
to visit people on the Hopi
reservation and visiting people

227
00:13:54,920 --> 00:14:02,200
out on the Navajo reservation.
And it was conference.

228
00:14:02,320 --> 00:14:04,400
I was still in the mainstream
church.

229
00:14:04,920 --> 00:14:11,080
And literally the spirit woke me
up after conference one night

230
00:14:11,120 --> 00:14:15,840
and I heard a voice say go read
3516.

231
00:14:17,000 --> 00:14:18,720
And I couldn't remember what it
said.

232
00:14:19,840 --> 00:14:23,080
And that excited me because I
thought, well, this isn't me

233
00:14:23,240 --> 00:14:26,160
because I'm sure I've read it
many times, but I can't recall

234
00:14:26,160 --> 00:14:28,640
what the contents of that
chapter was.

235
00:14:28,640 --> 00:14:32,920
So I got up and I went and read
it and, and it really impacted

236
00:14:33,000 --> 00:14:35,920
me.
And I've been kind of looking at

237
00:14:35,920 --> 00:14:40,760
the overall sense of things in
the world and I was a little bit

238
00:14:40,760 --> 00:14:46,080
frustrated.
I had studied some of the deeper

239
00:14:46,080 --> 00:14:49,440
doctrines but wasn't quite sure
where that was going to lead me

240
00:14:49,440 --> 00:14:54,120
or what it meant.
And so I was in that state.

241
00:14:54,600 --> 00:14:59,440
It was before I had come to know
where I was going to end up.

242
00:14:59,440 --> 00:15:01,840
I certainly hadn't met either of
these wonderful ladies.

243
00:15:02,880 --> 00:15:08,520
And anyway, I was just so
excited that that the Spirit had

244
00:15:08,520 --> 00:15:10,280
woke me up and told me to read
something.

245
00:15:11,400 --> 00:15:14,800
But then once I read it again
and started thinking about it

246
00:15:14,800 --> 00:15:17,240
and then writing it down and
praying about it and asking the

247
00:15:17,240 --> 00:15:21,560
Lord what I was to take away
from it, then it got a little

248
00:15:21,560 --> 00:15:30,560
bit more intense, a little bit
deeper, and, and I felt a drive

249
00:15:30,560 --> 00:15:33,840
to try to understand what can we
as a people do?

250
00:15:33,840 --> 00:15:39,640
What can I as an individual do?
How can we somehow fulfill the

251
00:15:40,320 --> 00:15:45,280
command of Jesus Christ to take
the fullness of the gospel?

252
00:15:45,280 --> 00:15:49,080
And what does that even mean?
You know, So define fullness.

253
00:15:50,120 --> 00:15:54,400
You and I might have our ideas,
but really, what does that mean?

254
00:15:55,200 --> 00:15:57,480
So that's kind of what what hit
me.

255
00:15:58,040 --> 00:16:04,560
And that was in probably 2001,
so 23 years ago.

256
00:16:05,160 --> 00:16:08,360
It's been a little while.
Yeah, it's been a while.

257
00:16:08,360 --> 00:16:13,480
And I feel like I, I, I, you
know, I feel like kind of the

258
00:16:13,480 --> 00:16:16,680
way I felt when, you know, when
the Lord finally instructed me

259
00:16:16,680 --> 00:16:22,400
personally to, to pursue plural
marriage, I was like 40 years

260
00:16:22,440 --> 00:16:25,080
old.
You're asking me to do this now.

261
00:16:25,680 --> 00:16:29,200
You're asking me to do this now.
And yes.

262
00:16:30,280 --> 00:16:32,320
And so that was, that was an
interesting thing.

263
00:16:32,320 --> 00:16:36,600
But I, I've looked back on that
and I have wondered and asked

264
00:16:36,600 --> 00:16:39,360
what, what have I done?
What could I have done more?

265
00:16:39,920 --> 00:16:43,720
Because it sure seems that we're
living in interesting times and

266
00:16:43,920 --> 00:16:47,720
that a lot of the signs and the
times around, we've been

267
00:16:47,720 --> 00:16:50,400
watching those my whole life.
My dad was very interested and,

268
00:16:51,080 --> 00:16:52,880
but it sure seems like they're
accelerated.

269
00:16:53,520 --> 00:16:56,480
So it makes me wonder, what can
we do?

270
00:16:57,000 --> 00:16:59,200
Have we missed out?
Have we dropped the ball?

271
00:17:00,840 --> 00:17:05,200
And I, I, I sure hope not.
I hope there's a way 'cause I

272
00:17:05,200 --> 00:17:08,079
think there are a tremendous
amount of individuals like

273
00:17:08,079 --> 00:17:11,760
myself and like you, you've been
having feelings along these

274
00:17:11,760 --> 00:17:14,160
lines, which is why it even came
up.

275
00:17:14,480 --> 00:17:19,640
And once you start talking about
it, you start making building

276
00:17:19,640 --> 00:17:23,079
relationships with people who
just kind of come out of nowhere

277
00:17:23,160 --> 00:17:27,240
and they have the same drive to
understand that particular

278
00:17:27,240 --> 00:17:35,480
chapter as it relates to what we
could or should or need to do

279
00:17:36,400 --> 00:17:38,560
further.
Maybe I, I, I think it's

280
00:17:38,600 --> 00:17:42,240
further, I, I honestly believe
that there's much more that we

281
00:17:42,280 --> 00:17:48,280
can do and, you know, but
there's a lot of people who

282
00:17:48,400 --> 00:17:50,840
think that we're doing all we
can, you know.

283
00:17:51,560 --> 00:17:54,640
You know, you, you said
something about, you know, you

284
00:17:54,640 --> 00:17:56,880
kind of alluded to, you know, is
it too late?

285
00:17:57,360 --> 00:18:00,200
And I tend to be the guy that's
like, it's not too late till

286
00:18:00,200 --> 00:18:05,360
this thing's all over, right?
Like I will scrap and claw and,

287
00:18:05,840 --> 00:18:10,000
you know, I may not get her, you
know, and not necessarily about,

288
00:18:10,040 --> 00:18:12,280
you know, this subject, but
whatever it is, right?

289
00:18:12,520 --> 00:18:14,120
This thing's not over till it's
over.

290
00:18:14,480 --> 00:18:18,040
And, and while, while I'm still
upright, I plan on going down

291
00:18:18,040 --> 00:18:20,640
swinging.
So I, I don't think it's ever

292
00:18:20,640 --> 00:18:25,600
quite over until the Lord comes
back and says it's enough.

293
00:18:25,640 --> 00:18:29,720
And so with that, I, I, I think
while certainly it, it is

294
00:18:29,720 --> 00:18:33,760
incumbent upon us as, as
Mormons, you know, and again,

295
00:18:33,760 --> 00:18:36,240
that doesn't matter if you're
fundamentalist or if you're LDS

296
00:18:36,240 --> 00:18:39,920
or just what what it is, but
that that's incumbent upon us

297
00:18:39,920 --> 00:18:43,200
now to realize that, well, maybe
there have been some failings on

298
00:18:43,200 --> 00:18:47,120
that level, right.
And then and then get back to a

299
00:18:47,120 --> 00:18:52,640
point to where to where we can
can once once you admit that,

300
00:18:52,640 --> 00:18:56,920
you know, OK, now I'm gonna dive
into it to my checkered history.

301
00:18:57,360 --> 00:19:02,080
There was a time where I was
like really good at drinking and

302
00:19:02,080 --> 00:19:04,440
like that was, seems to be my
natural talent.

303
00:19:04,760 --> 00:19:08,560
But I remember when it was a
problem, I had to, I had to be

304
00:19:08,560 --> 00:19:11,400
like, yeah, this is a problem,
right?

305
00:19:11,640 --> 00:19:15,280
But once you make that step,
well, then then there's actually

306
00:19:15,280 --> 00:19:17,560
a shift in kind of a power
dynamic, right?

307
00:19:17,560 --> 00:19:19,680
Once you admit, OK, there's
something going on here that

308
00:19:19,680 --> 00:19:22,920
needs to be fixed, you're now
kind of empowered to go fix it.

309
00:19:23,440 --> 00:19:26,720
And I, I think the same
principle here can kind of apply

310
00:19:27,080 --> 00:19:30,520
with this, right?
OK, maybe we have fallen down,

311
00:19:30,520 --> 00:19:32,560
maybe our ancestors fell down on
this.

312
00:19:32,920 --> 00:19:35,680
But that doesn't mean it's over.
And that means there's there's

313
00:19:35,680 --> 00:19:38,360
still more to do.
You know, Dave, I really think

314
00:19:38,360 --> 00:19:45,000
that that it's it's hard to say
that you know that, that it's

315
00:19:45,000 --> 00:19:46,840
too late.
I think there's still

316
00:19:46,840 --> 00:19:50,320
opportunity.
Luckily, the Lord is very

317
00:19:51,160 --> 00:19:55,560
forgiving and sometimes waits a
long time for people to do the

318
00:19:55,560 --> 00:20:00,240
things that they need to do.
But in that in that particular

319
00:20:00,240 --> 00:20:07,160
scripture, the Lord starts off
by coming out and saying that in

320
00:20:07,160 --> 00:20:12,920
that day when the Gentiles.
Sin against my gospel, which is

321
00:20:12,920 --> 00:20:17,840
pretty harsh, you know, as a, as
a revelation of prophecy that

322
00:20:17,840 --> 00:20:20,240
the Savior is giving.
And, and he kind of he just

323
00:20:20,240 --> 00:20:22,760
comes out and says, there's some
things I need to talk to you

324
00:20:22,760 --> 00:20:24,720
about that.
I've been commanded of the

325
00:20:24,720 --> 00:20:28,120
Father, you know, so he, he lets
us know right up front.

326
00:20:28,120 --> 00:20:32,480
This isn't just a topic or, you
know, part of the things that he

327
00:20:32,480 --> 00:20:35,800
taught as as the gospel.
This is something he's been

328
00:20:35,800 --> 00:20:38,360
commanded by God to tell us
that's important.

329
00:20:38,360 --> 00:20:41,680
And then he goes on and talks
about these things and he says

330
00:20:41,960 --> 00:20:46,000
in that day when the Gentiles,
you know, sin against my gospel,

331
00:20:46,000 --> 00:20:47,760
and then he goes into talking
about it.

332
00:20:48,000 --> 00:20:50,520
And so he kind of sets it up as
this is going to happen.

333
00:20:50,520 --> 00:20:54,880
Of course, depending on where
you're at, you may think that's

334
00:20:54,880 --> 00:20:58,160
already happened a long time
ago, or you may not think that

335
00:20:58,160 --> 00:21:01,200
that's happened.
A lot of it depends on how we

336
00:21:01,200 --> 00:21:05,720
define fullness.
In my opinion, he he uses the

337
00:21:05,720 --> 00:21:10,680
term and like I, like I've said
before, the savior doesn't just

338
00:21:10,680 --> 00:21:13,120
throw out terms that aren't
serious.

339
00:21:13,320 --> 00:21:17,920
You know, he want say something
that he means and he want he

340
00:21:17,920 --> 00:21:21,080
uses the term fullness of the
gospel five or six times in this

341
00:21:21,080 --> 00:21:25,600
chapter.
And there's only 10 or 11 times

342
00:21:26,160 --> 00:21:29,240
in the entire Book of Mormon
where that term is even used.

343
00:21:30,040 --> 00:21:32,720
And so it's, it's really quite
important.

344
00:21:32,720 --> 00:21:34,720
So what is it?
What does he mean?

345
00:21:35,040 --> 00:21:38,680
You know, from where I'm at now,
I have my ideas.

346
00:21:39,280 --> 00:21:41,640
I would say that it would mean
everything.

347
00:21:41,960 --> 00:21:44,520
You know what is a fullness?
Right.

348
00:21:45,320 --> 00:21:47,080
Yeah, if you have a cup of
water, it's everything.

349
00:21:47,600 --> 00:21:50,120
I'm a pretty simple dude.
When they say fullness, I

350
00:21:50,120 --> 00:21:52,200
imagine I want the whole pizza,
right?

351
00:21:52,200 --> 00:21:56,120
Don't, don't give me just a
slice or or 3/4 of it.

352
00:21:56,120 --> 00:22:00,200
I want, I want the full thing.
So I, I, you know, again, being

353
00:22:00,200 --> 00:22:03,280
a simple guy, he means what he
says.

354
00:22:03,280 --> 00:22:06,440
Yeah, I would agree with you
completely.

355
00:22:07,160 --> 00:22:14,880
However, I remember how I felt
when I was younger and I

356
00:22:15,680 --> 00:22:18,720
believed that we had.
Did you feel that?

357
00:22:18,720 --> 00:22:20,200
The fullness?
Yeah.

358
00:22:20,240 --> 00:22:21,560
Yeah.
It's it's a matter of

359
00:22:21,560 --> 00:22:24,520
perception, I think.
And it wasn't until I began to

360
00:22:24,520 --> 00:22:26,520
understand.
Wait a minute.

361
00:22:27,200 --> 00:22:34,280
Why don't we have that anymore?
Now, you and I could set a

362
00:22:34,280 --> 00:22:38,560
number off a vast amount of
things that would fit that

363
00:22:38,640 --> 00:22:40,640
question.
What don't we have?

364
00:22:40,640 --> 00:22:43,120
What's changed?
The reality is there has been

365
00:22:43,120 --> 00:22:45,880
many, many changes that have
happened.

366
00:22:46,360 --> 00:22:51,680
And I'm certainly not trying to,
you know, verbally abuse or, you

367
00:22:51,680 --> 00:22:57,080
know, or upset any of our good
friends and folks who are still

368
00:22:57,080 --> 00:23:01,720
in the mainstream church.
But the reality is things have

369
00:23:01,720 --> 00:23:07,800
changed over 200 year and
important things, you know,

370
00:23:07,800 --> 00:23:11,320
things like law of consecration,
why don't we live in United

371
00:23:11,320 --> 00:23:13,840
Order?
I had those questions but was

372
00:23:13,840 --> 00:23:15,760
just always told that we can't
do that right now.

373
00:23:17,200 --> 00:23:19,480
Same with polygamy.
You know, to me, polygamy was

374
00:23:19,480 --> 00:23:22,080
the P word.
I bring it up just because I was

375
00:23:22,080 --> 00:23:24,600
curious and there it wasn't half
the lessons and not half.

376
00:23:24,600 --> 00:23:26,840
But you know, it would come up,
you'd start talking about it.

377
00:23:26,840 --> 00:23:30,920
And if you talked about it too
much, people started looking at

378
00:23:30,920 --> 00:23:33,480
you a little funny.
You know, you might even get

379
00:23:33,480 --> 00:23:36,720
pulled aside and said, we're not
going to talk about that quite

380
00:23:37,320 --> 00:23:41,160
right now, Jeff, you know, And
so I was just a good boy and

381
00:23:41,160 --> 00:23:43,240
didn't talk about it much for
years.

382
00:23:44,920 --> 00:23:49,960
And it was just always weird.
But so I think it's important

383
00:23:49,960 --> 00:23:55,120
when we try to find out what the
Savior meant by you're going to

384
00:23:55,120 --> 00:23:58,200
have the fullness, you Gentiles,
because I'm going to give it to

385
00:23:58,200 --> 00:24:01,560
you.
And it's your job to give it to

386
00:24:01,560 --> 00:24:06,160
the remnant of the House of
Israel so that they may know who

387
00:24:06,160 --> 00:24:10,240
they are, and also so that we
can establish Zion.

388
00:24:10,240 --> 00:24:12,240
Well, we certainly can't
establish Zion if we're not

389
00:24:12,240 --> 00:24:15,560
living law of consecration, if
we're not living the family life

390
00:24:15,560 --> 00:24:18,320
that God wants us to, and all a
number of other things.

391
00:24:18,320 --> 00:24:21,960
So you know, the writings right
there.

392
00:24:23,800 --> 00:24:26,560
It is what it is, in my opinion.
Yeah.

393
00:24:26,600 --> 00:24:30,960
So I have continually asked,
well, how do you perpetuate

394
00:24:30,960 --> 00:24:32,440
that?
How do you teach that?

395
00:24:32,440 --> 00:24:35,440
How do you do that?
How do you do that?

396
00:24:35,600 --> 00:24:40,720
You know, when I got to spend a
lot of time and when it really

397
00:24:40,720 --> 00:24:46,560
came home to me was as I started
meeting individuals and people

398
00:24:46,680 --> 00:24:51,160
and I began to go once a month
or so and visit different wards

399
00:24:51,160 --> 00:24:54,560
and branches in the mainstream
church out on the different

400
00:24:54,560 --> 00:25:00,240
reservations.
And I was shocked by the stark

401
00:25:00,240 --> 00:25:05,680
difference in in well.
So I'll just say it, you know

402
00:25:06,720 --> 00:25:08,440
the poverty level.
Right.

403
00:25:09,400 --> 00:25:14,440
Was so overwhelming and I went
to Louisiana and Mississippi and

404
00:25:14,440 --> 00:25:19,480
it reminded me of being in the
poorest of poor places and maybe

405
00:25:19,480 --> 00:25:21,760
even worse in some of the inner
cities.

406
00:25:22,880 --> 00:25:25,960
And I thought, how can this be?
I remember sitting one time with

407
00:25:25,960 --> 00:25:35,280
a good friend of mine who I met
and very intelligent, well, well

408
00:25:35,280 --> 00:25:39,080
educated master's degree
teacher, you know, who's Native

409
00:25:39,080 --> 00:25:45,600
American on down on the on the
Navajo reservation and sitting

410
00:25:45,600 --> 00:25:48,320
in her church with her and her
kids and her family and the

411
00:25:48,320 --> 00:25:49,360
rest.
You know, there's probably 30

412
00:25:49,360 --> 00:25:56,520
people there and it was a double
wide trailer with, you know,

413
00:25:57,760 --> 00:26:03,200
carpet that was breaking up, no
running water inside, a wood

414
00:26:03,200 --> 00:26:08,200
stove in the back and an
outhouse outside.

415
00:26:08,200 --> 00:26:12,200
And there were 30 minute church
here in this little branch.

416
00:26:13,760 --> 00:26:17,960
And I had just moved, you know,
earlier, a few years earlier

417
00:26:17,960 --> 00:26:22,680
from a, a branch in Montana
where we had thirty members

418
00:26:22,760 --> 00:26:25,960
often.
And the promise had been, if you

419
00:26:25,960 --> 00:26:31,680
can get up to 50 or 60 or 70
even, we'll build you a new

420
00:26:31,680 --> 00:26:34,440
church.
And eventually they did, and

421
00:26:34,440 --> 00:26:40,520
they got a $3,000,000 church,
you know, but I'm sorry, but it

422
00:26:40,520 --> 00:26:43,480
wasn't on the reservation.
You know AM.

423
00:26:44,720 --> 00:26:47,280
I trying to claim that there's a
racist problem.

424
00:26:47,360 --> 00:26:52,120
I don't think that that's in the
minds of the IT wasn't in my

425
00:26:52,120 --> 00:26:54,760
mind as a member of the
mainstream church, wasn't in my

426
00:26:54,760 --> 00:26:58,080
mind and isn't now.
But for whatever purpose,

427
00:27:00,760 --> 00:27:03,560
there's some problems.
And it reminded me very much of

428
00:27:03,560 --> 00:27:06,840
Mormon chapter 8 where he looks
down upon us and said, I have

429
00:27:06,840 --> 00:27:11,720
seen you.
I've seen your day and you are

430
00:27:11,720 --> 00:27:16,720
more in love with your substance
and your wealth and your clothes

431
00:27:17,000 --> 00:27:21,480
and your meeting houses.
And you know, we don't think

432
00:27:21,480 --> 00:27:23,600
about it when we're in the
church 'cause you know what?

433
00:27:23,720 --> 00:27:26,600
It's, I never thought the
meeting houses were opulent.

434
00:27:26,640 --> 00:27:30,000
I've been in much more opulent
cathedrals around the world.

435
00:27:30,360 --> 00:27:35,920
You think, well, this is just
nice until you go and have

436
00:27:35,920 --> 00:27:40,120
church with no running water in
an outhouse and a wood stove and

437
00:27:40,120 --> 00:27:43,400
a double wide trailer.
And then you can see maybe what

438
00:27:43,520 --> 00:27:48,520
Mormon saw as he looked down
through the ages and starts

439
00:27:48,520 --> 00:27:50,760
telling us that we've all gone
astray because we love our

440
00:27:50,760 --> 00:27:53,080
riches.
And that's scary.

441
00:27:53,520 --> 00:27:57,720
That's a scary place to go.
And you begin to realize that

442
00:27:58,400 --> 00:28:01,640
that the Lord knew, you know,
and how do we build Zion?

443
00:28:01,640 --> 00:28:08,200
If, if there are poor, poor
among us and if we've been

444
00:28:08,200 --> 00:28:14,320
charged to the fullness to the
poorest almost class of people

445
00:28:14,760 --> 00:28:19,160
on the continent and we haven't
done it, then it turns into

446
00:28:19,160 --> 00:28:22,920
something really hard to, to,
you know, in your brain to deal

447
00:28:22,920 --> 00:28:25,760
with.
And you know what?

448
00:28:25,760 --> 00:28:27,960
I know there's all sorts of
cultural reasons why we would

449
00:28:27,960 --> 00:28:30,840
say and why we make it OK or why
we feel that way.

450
00:28:30,840 --> 00:28:33,600
And I don't have all the
answers.

451
00:28:33,600 --> 00:28:37,280
I, you know, I've had thoughts
and feelings and, and done some

452
00:28:37,280 --> 00:28:40,920
deep pondering on the issue.
And I, I, I think there's some

453
00:28:40,920 --> 00:28:45,360
places to start and some places
to make an effort, but I don't

454
00:28:45,360 --> 00:28:48,760
have all the all the answers.
I think it's going to take

455
00:28:49,160 --> 00:28:53,720
repentance and sackcloth and ash
as a group of people, groups of

456
00:28:53,720 --> 00:28:58,840
people who care about this and
asking the Lord, please forgive

457
00:28:58,840 --> 00:29:07,240
us for taking 200 years almost
to you know, it wasn't without

458
00:29:07,240 --> 00:29:08,640
trying.
Please don't.

459
00:29:08,640 --> 00:29:13,440
I'm not just trying to throw
everybody under the bus on this

460
00:29:13,440 --> 00:29:18,440
one, because over the years,
the, the church and the, and the

461
00:29:18,440 --> 00:29:22,600
gospel and the people in it have
tried, you know, But I'll tell

462
00:29:22,600 --> 00:29:26,960
you what, the last thing that
the adversary wants is for the

463
00:29:26,960 --> 00:29:29,800
remnant to understand who they
are and rise up.

464
00:29:30,200 --> 00:29:33,920
And it was that thought alone
that kind of really helped in

465
00:29:33,920 --> 00:29:36,840
the early days.
The persecution that was heaped

466
00:29:36,840 --> 00:29:41,440
upon the church was to try to
keep them away from the remnant.

467
00:29:42,040 --> 00:29:46,040
You know, they'd already run
country and they were going to

468
00:29:46,040 --> 00:29:51,720
great lengths to make sure that
that this event never happened.

469
00:29:52,240 --> 00:29:57,320
You know, I remember the kind of
the epiphany or the light bulb

470
00:29:57,320 --> 00:30:04,480
moment that I had chatting with
some of the elders of the Hopi

471
00:30:04,480 --> 00:30:09,600
people and they just threw out
there that, you know, that in

472
00:30:09,800 --> 00:30:14,960
1890 and there's a pivotal date.
You know, the same time that the

473
00:30:14,960 --> 00:30:19,360
church was being mashed to
almost extinction by the

474
00:30:19,360 --> 00:30:23,560
government for the threat was
there in 1890.

475
00:30:23,560 --> 00:30:26,960
Everybody knows, you know, I'm
referring to the manifesto where

476
00:30:26,960 --> 00:30:30,200
there was so much and so, you
know, so much pressure to change

477
00:30:30,520 --> 00:30:36,440
our beliefs, our culture, to
stop our family organizations.

478
00:30:37,040 --> 00:30:40,000
And to you know, it's an it's an
interesting thing because the

479
00:30:40,000 --> 00:30:46,520
government required a couple of
things of the church in 1896 to

480
00:30:46,520 --> 00:30:49,240
become a state.
One of them was make polygamy a

481
00:30:49,240 --> 00:30:52,920
felony in your constitution, and
the other one was institute pre

482
00:30:52,920 --> 00:30:55,720
public education.
So give us the minds of your

483
00:30:55,720 --> 00:31:00,400
children and quit having so many
kids and teaching them about

484
00:31:00,400 --> 00:31:02,760
your belief.
You know, that's they just want

485
00:31:02,760 --> 00:31:06,680
to destroy the culture.
In the same year as the

486
00:31:06,680 --> 00:31:11,400
manifesto, the chief of the Hopi
tribe was put in Alcatraz for

487
00:31:11,400 --> 00:31:17,920
five years for failing, for not
putting his children in the

488
00:31:18,080 --> 00:31:21,280
government schools.
He refused to put his to send

489
00:31:21,280 --> 00:31:24,640
his children.
So they put him in jail and took

490
00:31:24,640 --> 00:31:26,480
him anyway.
Cut their hair, took away their

491
00:31:26,480 --> 00:31:31,120
religion, took away their
culture to strip them of who

492
00:31:31,120 --> 00:31:36,520
they were.
And I, I just find it so

493
00:31:36,520 --> 00:31:41,200
interesting to look back and see
the, the very obvious hand of

494
00:31:41,200 --> 00:31:44,120
the adversary through the
government of this country.

495
00:31:45,200 --> 00:31:48,160
And I think anybody who looks at
things right now can know what

496
00:31:48,160 --> 00:31:53,000
I'm talking about, you know,
anyway.

497
00:31:53,440 --> 00:31:57,280
You know, you, you've, you touch
on a couple of of really good

498
00:31:57,280 --> 00:32:02,440
things there.
One is if the adversary is

499
00:32:02,440 --> 00:32:06,040
disinvested and making sure, as
you put it, this event doesn't

500
00:32:06,040 --> 00:32:10,240
happen, there's a reason.
There's a reason, right?

501
00:32:10,720 --> 00:32:13,560
The adversary, in my experience,
now this is one man's

502
00:32:13,560 --> 00:32:20,040
experience, is never going after
things or people that are

503
00:32:20,040 --> 00:32:22,160
inconsequential, so to speak,
right?

504
00:32:22,160 --> 00:32:26,000
He doesn't spend a whole lot of
time working on the people he's

505
00:32:26,000 --> 00:32:28,080
already got.
He's got them, right.

506
00:32:28,360 --> 00:32:35,240
Likewise, he doesn't spend time
working on on events that may be

507
00:32:35,240 --> 00:32:39,520
insignificant or might, you
know, might not pose a challenge

508
00:32:39,520 --> 00:32:43,160
to his Kingdom.
And so in this specific one, I

509
00:32:43,160 --> 00:32:45,240
think there's something here
that deserves a lot of

510
00:32:45,240 --> 00:32:48,800
investigation, right?
Because I think if he's working

511
00:32:48,800 --> 00:32:53,160
this hard against this one
thing, there's a reason.

512
00:32:53,800 --> 00:32:57,760
And that is, is that he's
nervous and and I think it it

513
00:32:57,760 --> 00:33:01,560
didn't then becomes incumbent
upon us as adherence to the

514
00:33:01,560 --> 00:33:07,280
restoration that that we pursue
that doggedly to to rectify

515
00:33:07,280 --> 00:33:09,720
this.
The the other thing I'll say,

516
00:33:10,440 --> 00:33:13,040
you talked about the adversary
within the government.

517
00:33:14,240 --> 00:33:18,400
I am a huge nerd, especially
when it comes to the founding

518
00:33:18,480 --> 00:33:21,800
period of the United States.
I mean, that's the whole reason

519
00:33:21,800 --> 00:33:25,000
I moved back East, right?
I wanted to be close to the

520
00:33:25,000 --> 00:33:31,240
history and there there was
something that I caught that

521
00:33:32,680 --> 00:33:35,960
I've since begun to think that
there's something to this.

522
00:33:36,400 --> 00:33:41,400
If you read the, the founders of
the country, they had a saying

523
00:33:41,400 --> 00:33:45,000
which was we're going to rely on
divine Providence, right?

524
00:33:45,520 --> 00:33:48,120
Well, when you start breaking
that down, as you look at the,

525
00:33:48,160 --> 00:33:50,840
the preachers of the day, what
they're basically saying is

526
00:33:50,840 --> 00:33:53,200
we're going to align ourselves
with God.

527
00:33:53,960 --> 00:33:58,560
OK, Now, by the time we get to
Andrew Jackson westward

528
00:33:58,560 --> 00:34:02,000
expansion, which was good.
We needed to expand W I'm not

529
00:34:02,000 --> 00:34:05,520
saying that, but what we did to
the Native Americans was a

530
00:34:05,520 --> 00:34:08,280
little shady.
I mean, like bad shady.

531
00:34:08,719 --> 00:34:13,120
And what I noticed is, is that
the, the the the premise had

532
00:34:13,120 --> 00:34:16,800
changed religiously.
We went from we're, we're just

533
00:34:16,800 --> 00:34:22,080
gonna try to get on God's side
with, with, you know, Providence

534
00:34:22,080 --> 00:34:24,719
and, and relying on divine
Providence.

535
00:34:24,760 --> 00:34:29,360
And we went to manifest destiny.
And when you read, when you read

536
00:34:29,360 --> 00:34:34,199
some of the, the literature from
those days, the message changed.

537
00:34:34,199 --> 00:34:37,520
It went from we're gonna try to
be on God's side to no, no, no,

538
00:34:37,520 --> 00:34:40,440
God's on our side.
And when we get to that point

539
00:34:40,440 --> 00:34:43,639
and we feel like God is on our
side, that gives us car Blanc to

540
00:34:43,639 --> 00:34:48,400
do all sorts of horrible crap.
And So what what you spoke there

541
00:34:48,400 --> 00:34:53,800
was, was really, I think points
that out beautifully, Jeff, is

542
00:34:53,800 --> 00:34:57,800
that in some ways we gotta get
back on God's side, right?

543
00:34:57,800 --> 00:35:02,360
I think for too long in
Mormonism we've had this idea

544
00:35:02,360 --> 00:35:05,280
of, well, we're his chosen
people come hell or high water

545
00:35:05,600 --> 00:35:07,480
right now.
Certainly that's true.

546
00:35:07,480 --> 00:35:09,240
There's been some covenants have
been made.

547
00:35:09,760 --> 00:35:14,120
However, if we want to do those
things which the Lord has asked

548
00:35:14,120 --> 00:35:18,320
us to do, we have to get back on
His program and we have to stop

549
00:35:18,320 --> 00:35:22,800
looking at ourselves and that
we're any better than than the

550
00:35:22,800 --> 00:35:25,320
Native Americans that we're
supposed to take the gospel to.

551
00:35:25,320 --> 00:35:28,600
And there has to be a
recognition of their divine

552
00:35:28,600 --> 00:35:31,440
worth in order to get to get
that.

553
00:35:31,440 --> 00:35:34,160
I don't think we can do this
work without that recognition.

554
00:35:35,960 --> 00:35:38,320
I think you're right, Dave.
You've had, you've had Rod

555
00:35:38,320 --> 00:35:39,600
Meldrum on your show, haven't
you?

556
00:35:39,920 --> 00:35:40,800
I have, yeah.
Did we?

557
00:35:41,400 --> 00:35:43,880
OK.
And of course, he's involved

558
00:35:43,880 --> 00:35:49,000
with with some great research,
you know, DNA, the early days of

559
00:35:49,000 --> 00:35:55,280
the church and, and institutions
of power that went out of their

560
00:35:55,280 --> 00:36:01,400
way from the beginning, the
Smithsonian to absolutely cover,

561
00:36:02,000 --> 00:36:09,560
destroy and hide anything that
would point to a class of people

562
00:36:09,880 --> 00:36:13,000
that we're Hebrew, you know,
that we're Israelite.

563
00:36:13,120 --> 00:36:16,920
And so once again, here the Lord
is saying that you will come to

564
00:36:16,920 --> 00:36:21,160
a knowledge of who you are,
which then means all those

565
00:36:21,160 --> 00:36:25,840
promises apply to them, promises
that the Lord has made and he

566
00:36:25,840 --> 00:36:29,640
will made and he will keep them.
And we can either be a part of

567
00:36:29,640 --> 00:36:34,040
that or not.
And that's the scary thing for

568
00:36:34,040 --> 00:36:36,480
us.
But the Lord will keep his

569
00:36:36,480 --> 00:36:39,720
promises because he's a God that
cannot and will not lie.

570
00:36:40,320 --> 00:36:43,840
And and the adversary has gone
from the beginning days of the

571
00:36:43,840 --> 00:36:46,880
church.
You can see this battle to

572
00:36:47,280 --> 00:36:52,000
maintain an ignorance of one.
What's the fullness of the

573
00:36:52,000 --> 00:36:55,120
gospel anyway?
You know, if you and I have no

574
00:36:55,120 --> 00:37:00,360
clue what that means and yet
it's specific, then that's

575
00:37:00,360 --> 00:37:02,680
important on our part.
How can we give something that

576
00:37:02,680 --> 00:37:07,000
that we that maybe we gave away
or we gave up?

577
00:37:07,800 --> 00:37:09,600
You know, that that's the scary
part for me.

578
00:37:10,880 --> 00:37:16,640
And then if we have it and we
know what it is, but we're not

579
00:37:17,160 --> 00:37:24,320
absolutely focused on trying to
give that for the purpose of

580
00:37:24,320 --> 00:37:27,160
fulfilling the prophecy and for
the goodness and for the

581
00:37:27,160 --> 00:37:31,800
establishment of a community.
You know, there's an

582
00:37:31,800 --> 00:37:37,000
interesting, there's an
interesting scripture in Genesis

583
00:37:37,000 --> 00:37:41,600
Chapter 9 where the original
covenant was made with Enoch.

584
00:37:41,960 --> 00:37:45,200
You know, you go all the way
back and it was a covenant that

585
00:37:45,200 --> 00:37:47,880
God made with Enoch because he
was getting ready to wipe out

586
00:37:47,880 --> 00:37:51,880
the human race for their idiocy.
And we, we seem to repeat

587
00:37:51,880 --> 00:37:55,840
things.
And he told Enoch that, you

588
00:37:55,840 --> 00:37:59,200
know, as as Enoch went through
this, this series of show me

589
00:37:59,200 --> 00:38:02,520
when, when the earth will rest
and show me when the people and

590
00:38:02,520 --> 00:38:04,920
show me when the savior will
come and all of these things.

591
00:38:05,640 --> 00:38:10,680
But Enoch was given a promise
that then got revamped.

592
00:38:11,040 --> 00:38:17,280
And I won't say revamped, but it
got reiterated down to Noah, and

593
00:38:17,280 --> 00:38:20,000
then it got reiterated to
Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.

594
00:38:20,000 --> 00:38:24,120
And then it got reiterated to to
Joseph and then to Lehigh.

595
00:38:24,120 --> 00:38:27,680
And, you know, and so all of
these promises are attached to

596
00:38:27,680 --> 00:38:31,280
an original promise that was
given to Enoch, that a remnant

597
00:38:31,280 --> 00:38:35,440
of his seed would remain until
the end.

598
00:38:36,600 --> 00:38:42,880
And that when they kept all of
God's commandments and looked

599
00:38:42,880 --> 00:38:48,160
up, that the heavens would look
down and that the Church of the

600
00:38:48,160 --> 00:38:50,440
first born would come down out
of heaven, and that we would

601
00:38:50,480 --> 00:38:56,440
establish science in the end.
And so there is some grand

602
00:38:56,520 --> 00:39:00,360
fulfillment that God has
promised.

603
00:39:01,000 --> 00:39:05,520
And all of these things tie in
together with elements of the

604
00:39:05,520 --> 00:39:09,640
gospel, like a united order or
people who live together in a

605
00:39:09,640 --> 00:39:15,680
city like Enochs, you know, who
can love one another where there

606
00:39:15,680 --> 00:39:19,560
is no poor among them.
How do we do that?

607
00:39:19,560 --> 00:39:21,040
I don't know.
It's been a struggle throughout

608
00:39:21,040 --> 00:39:22,960
the history of mankind to live
in peace.

609
00:39:23,800 --> 00:39:28,720
But we have to find a way.
And I think that's what's just

610
00:39:28,840 --> 00:39:33,360
just been eating at me for 20
years is I, I, I haven't found a

611
00:39:33,360 --> 00:39:35,640
way.
And I, and I'm sorry about that,

612
00:39:36,000 --> 00:39:40,920
but I want to find a way.
I would love to, I would love to

613
00:39:40,920 --> 00:39:46,640
be able to have discussions,
deep discussions with followers,

614
00:39:47,040 --> 00:39:50,440
believers of the Restoration,
believers of Jesus Christ who

615
00:39:50,440 --> 00:39:57,080
want to do everything in their
power to come unto him and

616
00:39:57,440 --> 00:40:02,280
perpetuate the fullness of the
gospel in a way that we can be

617
00:40:02,280 --> 00:40:04,800
faithful.
We have it.

618
00:40:04,960 --> 00:40:07,400
Let's share it.
You know that's what the

619
00:40:07,400 --> 00:40:10,800
gospel's about is sharing.
You know the truth.

620
00:40:12,240 --> 00:40:14,320
I remember getting up and
reading, I can't remember if

621
00:40:14,320 --> 00:40:19,360
it's 8210 or in the DNC for my
mission when I went on my

622
00:40:19,360 --> 00:40:22,920
mission, You know, it becometh
every man who hath been warned

623
00:40:22,920 --> 00:40:27,080
to warn his neighbor.
And it meant a lot even back

624
00:40:27,080 --> 00:40:34,120
there when I was 19, you know,
and I think it's just just an

625
00:40:34,120 --> 00:40:36,080
eternal principle.
If we love our neighbor, we do

626
00:40:36,080 --> 00:40:40,600
everything we can And and I
kudos to you because that's what

627
00:40:40,600 --> 00:40:45,240
you're doing with this podcast.
You felt like, no, you did.

628
00:40:45,760 --> 00:40:48,920
You felt spiritually that you're
supposed to do this and it's a

629
00:40:48,920 --> 00:40:53,240
lot of work and you spend all of
your time and your effort, you

630
00:40:53,240 --> 00:40:56,120
know, outside of your work and
your family and the things that

631
00:40:56,120 --> 00:40:59,200
you want to do and desire to do.
But this is something you felt

632
00:40:59,200 --> 00:41:01,680
driven to do spiritually, right?
Right.

633
00:41:03,080 --> 00:41:09,800
Yeah, and your warning and your
expressing and your sharing the

634
00:41:09,800 --> 00:41:13,360
gospel, which we all covenant to
do when we're baptized, you

635
00:41:13,360 --> 00:41:19,120
know, fundamentalist mainstream
church, all the brands and the

636
00:41:19,680 --> 00:41:24,360
different elements of modern day
Mormonism.

637
00:41:25,520 --> 00:41:28,360
We all believe that.
We all believe that.

638
00:41:28,960 --> 00:41:32,080
And so somehow we need to come
together and figure out what the

639
00:41:32,080 --> 00:41:37,680
Lord meant when he said in that
day, when they, when your seed,

640
00:41:37,720 --> 00:41:45,000
the remnant of your seed, look
up and say, I will keep all your

641
00:41:45,000 --> 00:41:49,080
commandments, Then they will
look down and the and the earth

642
00:41:49,080 --> 00:41:52,440
will shake with gladness and
there will be a shift and Lord

643
00:41:52,440 --> 00:41:54,960
will come and evil will be
destroyed and the Millennium

644
00:41:54,960 --> 00:42:00,080
will be brought in.
But the requirement is keeping

645
00:42:00,360 --> 00:42:05,000
all well, what is that?
You know, and we're just so good

646
00:42:05,000 --> 00:42:09,800
at saying, well, that doesn't
mean this certainly I don't have

647
00:42:09,800 --> 00:42:12,400
to do that.
You know, it doesn't matter

648
00:42:12,400 --> 00:42:15,320
where we're at.
That's but the Lord wants us to

649
00:42:15,320 --> 00:42:19,680
be willing to keep all.
So I, I think we all should ask

650
00:42:19,680 --> 00:42:24,360
ourselves what is what is all?
Is it the same as the fullness?

651
00:42:24,960 --> 00:42:26,840
Kind of sounds like it to me,
right?

652
00:42:26,840 --> 00:42:32,880
Those words are synonyms all the
fullness and so you know the

653
00:42:32,880 --> 00:42:35,440
Lord just reiterating and trying
to let us know that if we'll go

654
00:42:35,440 --> 00:42:37,600
there.
There are great blessings and

655
00:42:37,600 --> 00:42:42,920
and it is absolutely tied to
sharing all I.

656
00:42:43,840 --> 00:42:54,080
Don't know, you know, excuse me
when, when there there's two

657
00:42:54,080 --> 00:42:59,480
ideas of the restoration, right?
There's this idea of, well,

658
00:42:59,480 --> 00:43:01,800
everything's been restored.
We're done.

659
00:43:01,960 --> 00:43:05,480
All we gotta do was just live by
what the old guy said and we're

660
00:43:05,480 --> 00:43:08,680
gonna be all right, right.
Then there's something else that

661
00:43:08,680 --> 00:43:11,920
says, you know, this is an
ongoing restoration, right?

662
00:43:11,920 --> 00:43:14,480
That there's still more truths
to be discovered.

663
00:43:15,320 --> 00:43:20,120
And so when we start talking
about living all of these truths

664
00:43:20,320 --> 00:43:24,080
or all of these commandments,
one thought that's that's come

665
00:43:24,080 --> 00:43:27,680
to me from time to time when
when contemplating this and just

666
00:43:27,680 --> 00:43:33,400
why it's so important is do do
some of our Native American

667
00:43:33,400 --> 00:43:35,840
brothers and sisters have
something that we need?

668
00:43:36,760 --> 00:43:41,040
Is there something in that oral
tradition that that they have

669
00:43:41,040 --> 00:43:44,240
that that is vitally needed and
we're not even aware of it yet.

670
00:43:46,120 --> 00:43:49,440
And and I think that that that
could be one of those things

671
00:43:49,440 --> 00:43:52,880
that could could benefit us in
this quest for Zion, right?

672
00:43:53,120 --> 00:43:54,920
That have to include these
people.

673
00:43:55,440 --> 00:43:59,040
And so I think it's I don't
think you can have one without

674
00:43:59,040 --> 00:44:01,920
the other, quite frankly, I
think at some point, if we're

675
00:44:01,920 --> 00:44:05,960
gonna live everything, if we're
gonna do it all, we we have to

676
00:44:05,960 --> 00:44:08,920
incorporate them.
The Lord said so, not us, right?

677
00:44:11,440 --> 00:44:15,800
He even he even goes so far in
that scripture to say that it

678
00:44:15,800 --> 00:44:20,600
will be our privilege if we
repent, right, to join them.

679
00:44:21,320 --> 00:44:24,280
See, we will join them because
we're the ones who have the

680
00:44:24,280 --> 00:44:27,000
pure, the pure blood of Israel,
right?

681
00:44:27,000 --> 00:44:29,360
We've all been kind of down over
the years.

682
00:44:30,400 --> 00:44:34,000
So not that we can't be adopted
in, that's not the point.

683
00:44:34,560 --> 00:44:38,040
The point is somewhere along the
line, the last will be first and

684
00:44:38,040 --> 00:44:40,360
the first should be last.
And all of those things mean

685
00:44:40,360 --> 00:44:44,240
something to the Lord.
And here we are.

686
00:44:44,960 --> 00:44:48,800
We came on this continent, our
ancestors did, and the Lord

687
00:44:48,800 --> 00:44:55,800
allowed because of our heed to
the gospel, allowed his, his

688
00:44:55,800 --> 00:45:03,720
people, the House of Israel to
be run and beaten and, you know,

689
00:45:04,320 --> 00:45:08,840
just completely abused.
And I guess the question should

690
00:45:08,840 --> 00:45:11,760
be asked, you know, and if you
asked any, you know, like you

691
00:45:11,760 --> 00:45:14,920
spend a lot of time and have
friends that are Native American

692
00:45:14,920 --> 00:45:19,080
and you ask them, are you still,
you know, being treated poorly?

693
00:45:19,400 --> 00:45:23,680
I think that you would get a
pretty pretty stark answer.

694
00:45:24,080 --> 00:45:26,440
Right.
If they trust them, they'd say,

695
00:45:26,440 --> 00:45:30,360
well, of course, yes.
You know, I remember picked up a

696
00:45:30,360 --> 00:45:33,000
couple hitchhikers in New
Mexico, couple of native ladies,

697
00:45:33,000 --> 00:45:37,640
and it was the 4th of July.
And, and I said, So what are you

698
00:45:37,640 --> 00:45:39,040
guys going to do for the 4th of
July?

699
00:45:39,040 --> 00:45:44,120
And they just kind of laughed.
And I, I realized that, you

700
00:45:44,120 --> 00:45:46,800
know, and I, and I, and they,
they opened up and we talked

701
00:45:46,800 --> 00:45:53,200
about why would they celebrate
independence, you know, and

702
00:45:53,320 --> 00:45:59,880
that's their doom, their
peoples, you know, slavery.

703
00:46:00,720 --> 00:46:06,400
And so when the Lord promises
that the fruits of us taking the

704
00:46:06,400 --> 00:46:11,560
fullness to the remnant will be
that he will show unto them that

705
00:46:11,560 --> 00:46:14,800
the Gentiles will have power
over them no longer.

706
00:46:15,480 --> 00:46:19,760
Now largely, you know, I believe
it's been an economic situation

707
00:46:19,760 --> 00:46:23,360
and you know, you know, there's
the reservations, there's people

708
00:46:23,360 --> 00:46:25,240
who live on the reservation,
people who live off the

709
00:46:25,240 --> 00:46:28,280
reservation.
But there is an economic and of

710
00:46:28,280 --> 00:46:31,320
course, by our own free will,
we're in the midst of that

711
00:46:31,320 --> 00:46:33,120
economic bondage ourselves,
right?

712
00:46:33,120 --> 00:46:35,520
We live in a debt based system
and we can't get out of it.

713
00:46:36,200 --> 00:46:38,880
Right.
The answer to that is probably

714
00:46:38,880 --> 00:46:42,320
one of those things that that
encapsulate the fullness.

715
00:46:42,440 --> 00:46:45,760
You know, the answer to economic
bondage is United Order and law

716
00:46:45,760 --> 00:46:48,560
of consecration.
So if we want to get out of it

717
00:46:48,560 --> 00:46:51,640
ourselves, we better start
trying to live it and then learn

718
00:46:51,640 --> 00:46:55,480
how to teach it.
Absolutely so.

719
00:46:56,200 --> 00:47:02,120
There's another thought, you
know, that scripture I was

720
00:47:02,240 --> 00:47:04,960
talking about earlier in Genesis
is actually in the Joseph Smith

721
00:47:04,960 --> 00:47:08,640
translation, and that's another
one of those things that we

722
00:47:08,640 --> 00:47:11,560
could talk about the fullness.
You know, Joseph was told to

723
00:47:12,040 --> 00:47:15,640
make a translation that's the
Bible, and you can find that

724
00:47:15,640 --> 00:47:20,120
stuff if you want to, but it's
largely been forgotten.

725
00:47:21,040 --> 00:47:24,600
You know, I had no idea.
A lot of those things are in the

726
00:47:24,600 --> 00:47:26,480
back.
And unless somebody says, hey,

727
00:47:26,880 --> 00:47:31,600
did you read Genesis chapter 14
about, you know, Melchizedek and

728
00:47:31,920 --> 00:47:35,440
how cool that priesthood was?
And you're like, where, where,

729
00:47:35,440 --> 00:47:37,800
where, where?
Well, oh, it's in the Joseph

730
00:47:37,800 --> 00:47:38,880
Smith.
You have to go in the back of

731
00:47:38,880 --> 00:47:41,880
the book and find, you know, so
it's just one of those things

732
00:47:41,880 --> 00:47:47,600
that's been kind of put away and
I don't think we reverence it.

733
00:47:47,640 --> 00:47:50,560
I I didn't know.
I just didn't know, and I

734
00:47:50,560 --> 00:47:52,840
thought I was pretty well
learned in the Church, but I had

735
00:47:52,840 --> 00:47:56,200
no idea.
You know the value of Joseph

736
00:47:56,200 --> 00:47:58,120
Smith's translation.
Sure.

737
00:47:58,560 --> 00:48:01,400
And that's one of the things I'm
kind of talking about, you know?

738
00:48:01,920 --> 00:48:04,760
Absolutely.
You know, I, I do want to go

739
00:48:04,760 --> 00:48:11,440
over a little bit here with
early Mormonism's idea and, and

740
00:48:11,520 --> 00:48:17,560
how it was we were to proceed
with, with preaching to the

741
00:48:17,560 --> 00:48:20,560
Native Americans.
This was on Joseph's in, in

742
00:48:20,560 --> 00:48:24,800
your, in your research.
This was, this was something

743
00:48:24,800 --> 00:48:27,680
that was pretty important early
on in the Restoration, right?

744
00:48:29,800 --> 00:48:33,160
I, I believe it was that Joseph
went to great lengths to go and

745
00:48:33,160 --> 00:48:38,680
meet with tribal leaders and,
and people were aware that he

746
00:48:38,680 --> 00:48:43,720
was doing these things and steps
were taken and a lot of things

747
00:48:43,720 --> 00:48:46,360
happened, you know, subsequent
to that.

748
00:48:46,360 --> 00:48:50,840
I I wish I could pull out all
the historical evidence you

749
00:48:50,840 --> 00:48:53,280
could get.
Michael Ness probably all

750
00:48:53,280 --> 00:48:55,760
remembers where it's all at
because he's just a genius.

751
00:48:55,960 --> 00:49:01,320
But it was very important to
Joseph Smith.

752
00:49:01,720 --> 00:49:05,880
He was aware of of everything
we're talking about right now

753
00:49:06,440 --> 00:49:10,920
and at every turn, I think he
was trying to situate himself to

754
00:49:10,920 --> 00:49:13,240
do it.
But we also know the history of

755
00:49:13,240 --> 00:49:17,000
the persecution and how every
time they got established, they

756
00:49:17,000 --> 00:49:19,320
were run from their houses and
all sorts of things.

757
00:49:19,320 --> 00:49:23,080
And how can you perpetuate the
fullness He's trying to, He

758
00:49:23,080 --> 00:49:27,080
spent the last number of years
obviously trying to establish

759
00:49:27,160 --> 00:49:29,800
all those things.
And even amongst his own people

760
00:49:29,800 --> 00:49:34,000
he struggled to establish what,
what I would term the fullness.

761
00:49:34,400 --> 00:49:38,800
They had to go underground and
there was all sorts of apostasy

762
00:49:38,800 --> 00:49:41,560
and people who were calling him
a false prophet for trying to

763
00:49:41,560 --> 00:49:45,440
bring about certain things.
And so it was very, very

764
00:49:45,440 --> 00:49:47,720
difficult.
You know, the adversary was

765
00:49:48,400 --> 00:49:52,360
right there from the beginning,
it seems to make sure that the

766
00:49:53,480 --> 00:49:57,520
that it was a very that, that he
would win, you know, that

767
00:49:57,520 --> 00:50:01,880
somehow he would thwart the plan
by keeping that fullness from

768
00:50:01,880 --> 00:50:03,920
going.
And, and that's not the only

769
00:50:03,920 --> 00:50:07,360
thing obviously in, in the
restoration that was important,

770
00:50:07,360 --> 00:50:12,960
but Joseph went to great lengths
to establish the, all the levels

771
00:50:12,960 --> 00:50:17,000
of priesthood and all the levels
of, of the doctrine and, and

772
00:50:17,000 --> 00:50:20,880
stated that he had done so, you
know, put those out there who

773
00:50:20,880 --> 00:50:24,440
would love to read something
fun, go go look up the last

774
00:50:24,440 --> 00:50:26,040
charge.
Right.

775
00:50:26,040 --> 00:50:30,640
You know, that's a big one.
Joseph Yeah, I've done it and

776
00:50:30,640 --> 00:50:34,880
I'm putting it on you, brethren,
and I'm giving you brethren all

777
00:50:34,880 --> 00:50:38,520
the priesthood that you need to
perpetuate the gospel of Jesus

778
00:50:38,520 --> 00:50:40,600
Christ faster than Satan can
tear it down.

779
00:50:41,960 --> 00:50:44,000
Very interesting.
Very intriguing.

780
00:50:44,640 --> 00:50:49,680
And so did he receive the
fullness he claimed he had, in

781
00:50:49,680 --> 00:50:54,480
my opinion.
So what do we do with it?

782
00:50:55,240 --> 00:50:58,280
You know, find out about it.
First we have to understand.

783
00:50:58,280 --> 00:51:02,200
Then we have to have revelation
and strengthen and the Lord to

784
00:51:02,360 --> 00:51:05,520
guide us and direct us.
Because the battle, you know,

785
00:51:05,520 --> 00:51:09,400
certainly isn't over.
Yeah.

786
00:51:09,720 --> 00:51:12,920
Close to the.
Yeah, no, there, there's,

787
00:51:13,040 --> 00:51:14,640
there's there's no doubt about
that.

788
00:51:14,640 --> 00:51:18,120
Joseph definitely did have it
and he definitely perpetuated

789
00:51:18,120 --> 00:51:22,040
it, you know, and and we see
that it's important to Joseph

790
00:51:22,120 --> 00:51:25,040
from the outset, right.
First missionaries go to the

791
00:51:25,040 --> 00:51:27,640
Western Front, so to speak, and,
and preach out there to the

792
00:51:27,640 --> 00:51:29,600
tribes there.
And Joseph himself went out and

793
00:51:29,600 --> 00:51:32,640
spoke.
And then during Brigham's time,

794
00:51:32,840 --> 00:51:35,840
when Brigham makes it, makes it
to the Salt Lake Valley with the

795
00:51:35,840 --> 00:51:38,400
Saints in tow, he's he's saying
the same thing, right?

796
00:51:38,400 --> 00:51:41,560
Like, hey, we, you know, while
certainly they, those early

797
00:51:41,560 --> 00:51:45,080
pioneers did have their
skirmishes, by and large, it got

798
00:51:45,080 --> 00:51:48,080
along pretty well.
And so this is important to

799
00:51:48,080 --> 00:51:50,320
Brigham and he had a a vision in
mind.

800
00:51:51,040 --> 00:51:55,120
And then, you know, I think part
of it is, you know, by the time

801
00:51:55,120 --> 00:51:59,480
we get to John Taylor, that poor
guy is trying to, to, to run the

802
00:51:59,480 --> 00:52:01,920
church in the Kingdom from
underground, right?

803
00:52:01,920 --> 00:52:05,480
He's all over the place.
And then, you know, they're

804
00:52:05,480 --> 00:52:08,680
dealing with all sorts of
persecutions through Woodruff

805
00:52:08,840 --> 00:52:12,400
for a long time.
And it seems to take kind of a,

806
00:52:12,560 --> 00:52:14,840
a backseat, right?
It always feels like there's

807
00:52:14,840 --> 00:52:17,840
something more pressing that's
right in front of us that we

808
00:52:17,840 --> 00:52:22,040
have to get done.
And you don't really see things

809
00:52:22,040 --> 00:52:25,960
kick up again as far as a
concern for the Native Americans

810
00:52:26,560 --> 00:52:30,360
until, until really about the
50s, right?

811
00:52:30,360 --> 00:52:33,240
Is, is what I can come up with
as I've looked at this.

812
00:52:33,640 --> 00:52:37,840
And then you have kind of the,
the program where they, they

813
00:52:37,840 --> 00:52:41,880
take kids from their families on
the reservation, stick them with

814
00:52:41,880 --> 00:52:45,360
LDS families for the school year
and then they go back in the

815
00:52:45,360 --> 00:52:50,280
summer.
And, and that program, I, I'm

816
00:52:50,280 --> 00:52:55,120
not sure, I think it was
well-intentioned, but I'm not

817
00:52:55,120 --> 00:52:57,360
sure that produced the desired
effect.

818
00:52:57,440 --> 00:52:59,840
You know what I mean, Jeff.
Yep.

819
00:53:00,080 --> 00:53:02,920
No, I agree.
And you know, I was just an

820
00:53:02,920 --> 00:53:06,680
innocent little kid who enjoyed
having new friends in the house.

821
00:53:06,920 --> 00:53:10,360
Sure, sure.
You know, and I never got to

822
00:53:10,360 --> 00:53:15,560
really sit, sit back and and
ponder what happened.

823
00:53:15,560 --> 00:53:19,200
There were years where we were
supposed to have our place, the

824
00:53:19,200 --> 00:53:23,160
placement program, We're
supposed to have a person come

825
00:53:23,160 --> 00:53:25,320
and we'd show up at the church
where they're supposed to be.

826
00:53:25,320 --> 00:53:28,880
And they just weren't there.
They just never showed up and

827
00:53:29,160 --> 00:53:30,960
and we were never told why or
how come or what.

828
00:53:30,960 --> 00:53:34,040
They just chose not to come.
You know, I think it was a very

829
00:53:34,040 --> 00:53:36,360
hard, I can't imagine how hard
it would have been.

830
00:53:38,200 --> 00:53:42,240
And they had, you know, they had
times and I, I could throw out

831
00:53:42,240 --> 00:53:46,400
numbers, but I'm, I don't know
them, you know, I've heard, I've

832
00:53:46,400 --> 00:53:51,480
heard numbers of mass, mass
baptisms, missionaries out on

833
00:53:51,480 --> 00:53:57,040
the reservations, you know, but
for their kids to come on the

834
00:53:57,040 --> 00:53:58,800
program, they had to be
baptized.

835
00:54:00,760 --> 00:54:06,240
And it meant nine months of a
kid going and getting an

836
00:54:06,240 --> 00:54:08,960
education and whatever their
motivation was doesn't matter,

837
00:54:09,080 --> 00:54:14,160
you know, but so there was just
mass baptisms during that period

838
00:54:14,160 --> 00:54:19,920
of time.
And so I can't speak to I was

839
00:54:19,920 --> 00:54:23,720
young and not really thinking
and I, I haven't delved into the

840
00:54:24,160 --> 00:54:28,000
to the history of that.
I know that, you know, when

841
00:54:28,000 --> 00:54:30,880
George, you know, there's, you
can read stuff about George

842
00:54:30,880 --> 00:54:33,240
Pelee and he was one of my
favorite speakers.

843
00:54:33,240 --> 00:54:39,760
Everybody just I was young when
he was in the, you know, in the

844
00:54:39,760 --> 00:54:43,120
70 and talking in conference and
it was great.

845
00:54:43,120 --> 00:54:46,080
And then all of a sudden he
wasn't there anymore And I

846
00:54:46,080 --> 00:54:49,120
didn't even have I, you know,
nobody really talked about it.

847
00:54:49,120 --> 00:54:50,640
It was one of those things you
don't talk about.

848
00:54:50,640 --> 00:54:54,280
It was years, years later when I
realized that, you know, he had

849
00:54:54,280 --> 00:54:58,760
kind of felt the same way and
had given some, some interviews

850
00:54:58,800 --> 00:55:01,680
and basically said we're not
doing enough.

851
00:55:02,400 --> 00:55:05,960
We're not doing enough for the
for the, for the mission.

852
00:55:06,360 --> 00:55:09,480
At what level he understood it?
I haven't gone and read those

853
00:55:09,480 --> 00:55:12,760
articles.
I know that his life was, you

854
00:55:12,800 --> 00:55:16,080
know, a tragedy after that,
after the, after the church.

855
00:55:16,840 --> 00:55:23,560
And, and so it's, you know, it
makes you wonder.

856
00:55:24,040 --> 00:55:27,360
I, I can't judge the situation
'cause I wasn't there, you know,

857
00:55:29,480 --> 00:55:33,320
when, when that happened.
And, but you know, based on my

858
00:55:33,320 --> 00:55:37,800
own experience of just being
amongst the people and making

859
00:55:37,800 --> 00:55:41,920
friends and going and trying to
help and to be there and, and

860
00:55:43,000 --> 00:55:46,240
wondering how, you know, I, I
wish I had all the answers and

861
00:55:46,240 --> 00:55:49,200
I, I certainly don't.
But I, I think that we, we have

862
00:55:49,200 --> 00:55:51,640
to start somewhere.
And that's defining what it is

863
00:55:51,960 --> 00:55:55,760
we're supposed to do, asking
those questions of ourselves.

864
00:55:55,760 --> 00:55:58,040
What does, what do these things
mean?

865
00:55:58,440 --> 00:56:02,240
And then asking the Lord to help
us to understand and to meet

866
00:56:02,240 --> 00:56:05,560
other folks and other people who
are interested in the same thing

867
00:56:06,720 --> 00:56:10,880
and then move forward and do all
that we can.

868
00:56:11,680 --> 00:56:16,560
You know it, it'd be real easy
for me to, you know, to fall

869
00:56:16,560 --> 00:56:23,920
into a place of of deep
criticism towards the church

870
00:56:23,920 --> 00:56:30,720
because they have the resources.
And yet is is that the answer?

871
00:56:30,880 --> 00:56:33,920
You know, is throwing resources
at things do.

872
00:56:33,920 --> 00:56:36,720
They have the resources, but do
they have the?

873
00:56:36,720 --> 00:56:38,920
Fullness well, that well, that
question too.

874
00:56:38,920 --> 00:56:42,480
And I, you know, experts around
that, around that issue,

875
00:56:43,080 --> 00:56:46,320
because, you know, it's
interesting in the early days of

876
00:56:46,320 --> 00:56:49,640
the church, Jim Joseph was told
that you can't hold keys to

877
00:56:49,640 --> 00:56:51,000
something you're not willing to
live.

878
00:56:52,120 --> 00:56:56,280
So if you if you do away with
certain keys of the of the

879
00:56:56,280 --> 00:57:00,760
priesthood because you're
unwilling to keep those laws,

880
00:57:01,560 --> 00:57:05,480
the Lord takes them back.
He's like, man, OK, you know,

881
00:57:06,000 --> 00:57:08,680
well, that's a harsh thing.
Once again, I'm not trying to,

882
00:57:08,800 --> 00:57:14,200
you know, make up people upset.
And but these are things that we

883
00:57:14,200 --> 00:57:16,960
spend a lot of time.
And by we, I mean, you know,

884
00:57:16,960 --> 00:57:19,080
people who find themselves in
the position that you and I

885
00:57:19,120 --> 00:57:21,080
found ourselves in.
Oops.

886
00:57:21,280 --> 00:57:24,640
We, we, we spend a lot of time
just pondering what what's

887
00:57:24,640 --> 00:57:26,560
happened and, you know, where
have things gone?

888
00:57:26,760 --> 00:57:32,640
And if you look at it that way,
if you look at what is the

889
00:57:32,640 --> 00:57:37,760
fullness and then you look at
the things that have that are no

890
00:57:37,760 --> 00:57:44,720
longer present in the main body
as far as actions, being able to

891
00:57:44,720 --> 00:57:47,720
fulfill certain things, being
able to live certain ways.

892
00:57:49,160 --> 00:57:51,880
And then the you go back and
read that scripture and the Lord

893
00:57:51,880 --> 00:57:57,880
says in that day, when the
Gentiles sin against my gospel

894
00:57:58,640 --> 00:58:02,920
and reject, you know, the word
reject is in there, right?

895
00:58:03,080 --> 00:58:06,800
So what if no, what, what if we
were rejected?

896
00:58:07,120 --> 00:58:11,720
And if that's the case, you
know, then my plea would be for

897
00:58:11,720 --> 00:58:14,600
anybody who's interested in
those kind of things to, to do

898
00:58:14,600 --> 00:58:16,160
exactly what the Savior has
asked.

899
00:58:16,160 --> 00:58:19,120
I've been trying to do this for
years in my own life.

900
00:58:20,520 --> 00:58:24,320
We need to repent, all of us.
You know, why, why is that such

901
00:58:24,320 --> 00:58:26,960
a terrible thing to think that
we're in need of repentance?

902
00:58:27,280 --> 00:58:29,680
You know, and I, I'm speaking
for myself as well as anybody

903
00:58:30,240 --> 00:58:33,000
because I, I, I certainly
haven't accomplished this.

904
00:58:33,240 --> 00:58:39,440
So how can I be super critical?
But I think we need to talk

905
00:58:39,440 --> 00:58:42,520
about it before we can, you
know, we need to talk about it

906
00:58:42,520 --> 00:58:46,920
and figure out how before,
before anything's going to

907
00:58:46,920 --> 00:58:49,560
happen.
And so that's where I think

908
00:58:49,680 --> 00:58:54,240
we're at now is, you know, Lord
help us, all of us all, all

909
00:58:54,240 --> 00:58:56,840
Mormons.
If you think, you know, what the

910
00:58:56,840 --> 00:59:03,280
fullness of the gospel is and
you believe it, then let's find

911
00:59:03,280 --> 00:59:09,480
out how we repent because our
brethren are as a culture,

912
00:59:10,160 --> 00:59:15,640
typically not living by the same
standard that we are.

913
00:59:15,760 --> 00:59:20,720
And and I mean, I'm talking
financially, I'm talking that

914
00:59:20,720 --> 00:59:25,840
there are, you know, there are
things now how to fix that.

915
00:59:26,040 --> 00:59:28,560
You know, there's some
philosophical and there's

916
00:59:28,560 --> 00:59:31,880
elements of the gospel and you
know, and in the church in in

917
00:59:31,880 --> 00:59:35,640
the church, we haven't been
willing or able, whatever you

918
00:59:35,640 --> 00:59:40,280
think to live those laws.
You know, you band together with

919
00:59:40,280 --> 00:59:42,240
a group of people in your ward
and try to live the law of

920
00:59:42,240 --> 00:59:45,560
consecration and see how quick
you're in the church, right?

921
00:59:45,960 --> 00:59:51,040
I don't know why live it.
Is it because the government

922
00:59:51,040 --> 00:59:56,600
would come down and squash us
again, Maybe, you know, is it

923
00:59:56,600 --> 00:59:59,320
because they hold the rein so
tight through A5O1C3?

924
00:59:59,320 --> 01:00:03,040
Maybe I don't know that answer.
I'm not the one who has to sit

925
01:00:03,040 --> 01:00:05,360
on those councils and deal with
the government still.

926
01:00:06,160 --> 01:00:09,200
That in their evil nature says
you will do as we say.

927
01:00:10,400 --> 01:00:13,520
And I'm being pretty, pretty
damn blunt.

928
01:00:16,400 --> 01:00:21,760
But if we don't repent, then
we're in deep trouble.

929
01:00:22,200 --> 01:00:26,440
And I, I say we 'cause I, I
consider myself, I consider

930
01:00:26,440 --> 01:00:30,880
myself as, as a follower of
Christ and a follower of the

931
01:00:30,880 --> 01:00:33,400
restoration of his gospel in its
fullness.

932
01:00:34,320 --> 01:00:37,680
And I, I want everything I can,
which is why this plagues me.

933
01:00:38,200 --> 01:00:42,680
This plagues me.
Well, you know, Jeff, as, as I

934
01:00:42,680 --> 01:00:47,520
broke down that scripture time
and again, it raises some

935
01:00:47,520 --> 01:00:51,200
questions, right?
And now these questions get real

936
01:00:51,200 --> 01:00:56,800
uncomfortable, right?
And, and so for folks in the,

937
01:00:57,000 --> 01:00:59,360
the LDS church that are
listening, I love you.

938
01:00:59,360 --> 01:01:02,040
You're, you're you're a good
part of this audience.

939
01:01:02,600 --> 01:01:07,720
But at this point, I'm not sure.
Just like Vanessa pointed out,

940
01:01:08,400 --> 01:01:12,040
I'm not sure there's a whole lot
that our LDS brothers and

941
01:01:12,040 --> 01:01:14,080
sisters can do for this at this
point.

942
01:01:15,160 --> 01:01:18,400
And now it's gonna get even more
specific because I think it's

943
01:01:18,400 --> 01:01:21,360
now incumbent upon us as
fundamentalists to do this work.

944
01:01:22,040 --> 01:01:25,240
Why do I say that?
Well, we just had a discussion

945
01:01:25,240 --> 01:01:29,080
here about what does the
fullness mean, right?

946
01:01:29,480 --> 01:01:34,720
It's everything that Joseph had
revealed that he revealed by

947
01:01:34,720 --> 01:01:37,360
commandment of the Lord.
It's, it's a correct

948
01:01:37,360 --> 01:01:39,680
understanding of the nature of
God, right?

949
01:01:39,680 --> 01:01:43,240
Let's start there.
You know, it's a, it's, it's

950
01:01:43,640 --> 01:01:47,800
priesthood, it's ordinances,
it's family structure, in our

951
01:01:47,800 --> 01:01:50,960
case, plural marriage, those
things, right?

952
01:01:50,960 --> 01:01:53,680
That's, that's part of those
things.

953
01:01:54,120 --> 01:01:58,960
But those are things that by and
large are missing from from the

954
01:01:58,960 --> 01:02:01,440
LDS church.
And look, if there's LDS people

955
01:02:01,440 --> 01:02:05,160
listening to this podcast, they
know they get it and and their

956
01:02:05,160 --> 01:02:08,040
their emails bear that out and
so.

957
01:02:08,440 --> 01:02:11,160
And so in.
Some some ways, I think it

958
01:02:11,160 --> 01:02:15,000
becomes kind of up to us to at
least lead the charge.

959
01:02:15,000 --> 01:02:17,360
You know what I mean, Jeff, As
fundamentalists.

960
01:02:18,160 --> 01:02:22,960
Yeah, no, I, well, I agree.
And yet didn't the Savior tell

961
01:02:22,960 --> 01:02:25,040
us that exactly in that very
scripture?

962
01:02:25,800 --> 01:02:30,080
He said the day that you reject
this, what's he going to do?

963
01:02:30,640 --> 01:02:33,680
I will take it from you.
Right.

964
01:02:34,080 --> 01:02:39,760
He he just spells it out if you
don't want it, you know, well,

965
01:02:39,760 --> 01:02:44,000
OK, I will eventually give it.
And I, I sit back and look at

966
01:02:44,000 --> 01:02:49,560
the time frames and go, wow, you
know, but for whatever purpose,

967
01:02:50,480 --> 01:02:54,000
you have to legitimately look at
the situation and ask yourself

968
01:02:54,760 --> 01:02:58,760
what happened.
Is that what happened when the

969
01:02:58,760 --> 01:03:04,720
church willingly, by vote, gave
up under extreme persecution?

970
01:03:05,120 --> 01:03:07,760
And I'd be the first to admit
that, OK.

971
01:03:10,440 --> 01:03:13,520
Want more from the Mormon
Renegade podcast?

972
01:03:13,880 --> 01:03:17,520
Head over to the Mormon Renegade
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973
01:03:17,520 --> 01:03:21,320
videos from the podcast and the
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974
01:03:21,320 --> 01:03:23,800
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975
01:03:24,360 --> 01:03:28,360
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976
01:03:28,360 --> 01:03:31,400
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977
01:03:31,400 --> 01:03:34,920
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978
01:03:34,920 --> 01:03:38,880
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live stream show with the host

979
01:03:38,880 --> 01:03:42,360
Dave Sanders.
Click the link in this episode's

980
01:03:42,360 --> 01:03:46,320
show notes today.
What happened is that what

981
01:03:46,320 --> 01:03:52,880
happened when the church
willingly by vote, gave up under

982
01:03:52,880 --> 01:03:56,200
extreme persecution.
And I'd be the first to admit

983
01:03:56,200 --> 01:04:06,320
that, OK, gave it up and said
we're going to follow the

984
01:04:06,320 --> 01:04:08,880
supreme law of the land instead
of the supreme God of the

985
01:04:08,880 --> 01:04:10,960
universe.
And that's harsh.

986
01:04:11,360 --> 01:04:14,600
And I, I, I've dealt with this
over the years.

987
01:04:14,600 --> 01:04:17,440
So you're seeing the Jeff after
20 years of trying to figure

988
01:04:17,440 --> 01:04:21,720
out, you know, this stuff.
And I wouldn't even hardly admit

989
01:04:21,720 --> 01:04:26,600
it in the 1st 10 years of my
transition because I love the

990
01:04:26,600 --> 01:04:30,960
church and I love the gospel.
And when I realized that there

991
01:04:30,960 --> 01:04:36,720
was extreme differences in the
two, I was forced to make a

992
01:04:36,720 --> 01:04:38,880
decision and to cleave to the
gospel.

993
01:04:39,800 --> 01:04:42,680
And that's hard 'cause you find
yourself on the outside.

994
01:04:42,680 --> 01:04:44,680
You find yourself, you know,
wandering in the wilderness

995
01:04:45,320 --> 01:04:47,760
asking the Lord for his Spirit
to guide and direct you because

996
01:04:47,760 --> 01:04:50,800
you just left the structure that
you've been told your whole life

997
01:04:50,800 --> 01:04:52,480
was.
It was the gospel.

998
01:04:54,120 --> 01:04:56,680
I have a thought to interject.
Absolutely.

999
01:04:58,120 --> 01:05:01,200
You know, you're talking about
whose responsibility is it to

1000
01:05:01,200 --> 01:05:02,760
take?
You know, is it the church?

1001
01:05:02,760 --> 01:05:06,640
Because they've got the
resources, but we all admit

1002
01:05:06,640 --> 01:05:10,400
they're lacking some of the
fullness of the gospel.

1003
01:05:10,880 --> 01:05:12,840
You know, there's there's
elements that they're just not

1004
01:05:12,840 --> 01:05:15,280
living.
And so if you look at it from

1005
01:05:15,280 --> 01:05:20,400
that way, well, who has those
and whoever has those, it seems

1006
01:05:20,400 --> 01:05:22,960
to me that that's who's
responsible for moving forward

1007
01:05:23,280 --> 01:05:25,920
doesn't matter.
Even you look at the past, you

1008
01:05:25,920 --> 01:05:29,200
look at the scriptures of
whatever did happen, that

1009
01:05:29,200 --> 01:05:31,640
doesn't change the course
forward.

1010
01:05:31,800 --> 01:05:35,320
Who's responsible to take the
fullness?

1011
01:05:35,320 --> 01:05:37,280
Which means we have to
understand it.

1012
01:05:37,280 --> 01:05:40,720
We have to look in our own lives
and go, is there an element of

1013
01:05:40,720 --> 01:05:44,120
the fullness of the gospel
gospel that I don't know or that

1014
01:05:44,120 --> 01:05:47,280
I don't have?
And then we have to find that

1015
01:05:47,520 --> 01:05:49,320
because we can't give what we
don't have.

1016
01:05:50,000 --> 01:05:53,360
And then at that point, if we
are seeking diligently in our

1017
01:05:53,360 --> 01:05:58,600
own lives to live the fullness
of the gospel, then it is our

1018
01:05:58,600 --> 01:06:03,680
individual responsibilities to
take that which we have outward.

1019
01:06:04,080 --> 01:06:06,920
And we can't rely on or get
upset with somebody else who

1020
01:06:06,920 --> 01:06:09,760
doesn't have that.
But they're not fulfilling this

1021
01:06:09,800 --> 01:06:15,640
because they're not capable.
And often times they just don't

1022
01:06:15,640 --> 01:06:17,520
know what's missing, right?
I mean.

1023
01:06:18,000 --> 01:06:19,480
Right.
You know, that's, it's an

1024
01:06:19,480 --> 01:06:22,960
ignorance situation, right?
And I was most of my life.

1025
01:06:23,880 --> 01:06:25,960
So you're, you're absolutely
correct, Dave.

1026
01:06:26,480 --> 01:06:30,240
And, you know, so it's
interesting to, to be able to

1027
01:06:30,240 --> 01:06:34,640
talk to the, the, the spectrum
of viewers, you know, listeners

1028
01:06:34,640 --> 01:06:39,120
that you have who are quite kind
of a, a, a broad spectrum, I'm

1029
01:06:39,120 --> 01:06:42,240
assuming, Yeah, of
fundamentalist thoughts and, and

1030
01:06:42,240 --> 01:06:44,240
also people in the mainstream
church.

1031
01:06:44,680 --> 01:06:46,920
The fact that they're listening
to your podcast means that

1032
01:06:46,920 --> 01:06:48,280
they're a little bit on the
fringe, right?

1033
01:06:48,840 --> 01:06:53,200
Oh yeah, no, nobody's going into
their Bishop being like, I found

1034
01:06:53,200 --> 01:06:56,360
this totally cool podcast.
You need to check this out.

1035
01:06:56,520 --> 01:06:58,800
Nobody's doing that.
That's listening in the church.

1036
01:06:59,080 --> 01:07:04,680
I guarantee that.
But, but it, it, it is a, it is

1037
01:07:04,680 --> 01:07:09,080
a wider spectrum.
But I'll also say this, my

1038
01:07:09,080 --> 01:07:12,200
audience is absolutely awesome,
whether they're fundamentalists

1039
01:07:12,200 --> 01:07:16,280
or mainstream LDS folks, they're
absolutely awesome because all

1040
01:07:16,280 --> 01:07:18,120
of them know what time it is,
right?

1041
01:07:19,040 --> 01:07:21,480
I, I don't think there's,
there's a one of them that don't

1042
01:07:21,480 --> 01:07:25,480
have a clock for that.
And I'm certainly respectful if,

1043
01:07:25,480 --> 01:07:29,160
if someone is kind of a, for
lack of a better term, a

1044
01:07:29,160 --> 01:07:31,760
closeted fundamentalist and they
feel like the Lord has told them

1045
01:07:31,760 --> 01:07:33,640
to stay in the church, then stay
in the church.

1046
01:07:33,640 --> 01:07:35,680
Do exactly what he tells you to
do.

1047
01:07:36,360 --> 01:07:39,080
Don't, don't think I'm
pressuring anybody to come out.

1048
01:07:40,040 --> 01:07:43,880
You, you do what you got to do.
And, and I understand entirely,

1049
01:07:44,200 --> 01:07:46,720
my heart goes out to you and,
and that sort of thing.

1050
01:07:46,720 --> 01:07:48,320
But yeah, it is a broader
spectrum.

1051
01:07:48,320 --> 01:07:52,360
But but everybody that's
listening to this podcast

1052
01:07:52,360 --> 01:07:56,360
probably has a good sense of
what time it is and understands

1053
01:07:56,360 --> 01:07:58,560
that that things are
accelerating.

1054
01:08:00,400 --> 01:08:04,080
You know, think about and, and I
don't know, once again, timing

1055
01:08:04,080 --> 01:08:10,920
is so interesting with with
prophecy and revelation, right?

1056
01:08:10,920 --> 01:08:16,520
I mean, the Lord spoke that, you
know, 2000 years ago and you

1057
01:08:16,520 --> 01:08:19,240
know, people have been watching
and looking at this for a long

1058
01:08:19,240 --> 01:08:22,279
time and the church has been
established for almost 200

1059
01:08:22,279 --> 01:08:28,000
years, you know, right, we're
getting really close to to at

1060
01:08:28,000 --> 01:08:34,160
least that milestone.
Timing is an interesting, an

1061
01:08:34,160 --> 01:08:35,920
interesting thing to try to
figure out.

1062
01:08:36,240 --> 01:08:41,359
But we certainly do live in the
most interesting of times at

1063
01:08:41,800 --> 01:08:44,520
this at this very moment.
And you think, you know, you

1064
01:08:44,520 --> 01:08:50,240
think when the Lord says that if
you don't do this, the remnant

1065
01:08:50,240 --> 01:08:53,279
are going to rise up and they're
going to wipe you out and you

1066
01:08:53,279 --> 01:08:54,760
go.
No pressure.

1067
01:08:55,279 --> 01:09:00,840
Look, looking around going what
are the, you know, what is

1068
01:09:01,479 --> 01:09:05,040
looking for signs, right.
Signs of that very thing.

1069
01:09:05,279 --> 01:09:09,800
OK.
And and just recently, matter of

1070
01:09:09,800 --> 01:09:14,160
fact, this very week are the
governor here in South Dakota a

1071
01:09:14,720 --> 01:09:16,359
little.
Yeah.

1072
01:09:16,359 --> 01:09:20,880
Kristy Norman, she she's great,
you know, and she put out a

1073
01:09:20,880 --> 01:09:26,760
little hour long video basically
asking the federal government

1074
01:09:26,760 --> 01:09:31,040
for help because the
reservations in South Dakota

1075
01:09:31,040 --> 01:09:34,240
have been completely infiltrated
by the cartels.

1076
01:09:36,399 --> 01:09:40,439
Now think about that from the
perspective of also what's been

1077
01:09:40,439 --> 01:09:44,720
happening on the southern border
and flying in, in the millions

1078
01:09:44,840 --> 01:09:50,520
upon millions, some would say
40, some odd million individuals

1079
01:09:50,520 --> 01:09:56,120
who who would be happy to
fulfill that, that treading down

1080
01:09:56,120 --> 01:09:58,480
the gentiles kind of deal.
Right, right.

1081
01:09:59,280 --> 01:10:02,880
And and then you have the
cartels, which if we're talking

1082
01:10:02,880 --> 01:10:06,960
Book of Mormon and likening down
to ourselves, let's just call

1083
01:10:06,960 --> 01:10:11,000
him the Gattiant robbers.
And now they've infiltrated the

1084
01:10:11,440 --> 01:10:15,400
Native American population and
their drug, the, the drug

1085
01:10:15,400 --> 01:10:19,040
overdosing and the, you know,
the, the leaders of the tribes

1086
01:10:19,040 --> 01:10:22,000
are just crying out for help.
But the federal government

1087
01:10:22,000 --> 01:10:27,360
controls the reservations.
So the state feels that their

1088
01:10:27,360 --> 01:10:29,480
hands are tied.
They can't go on without

1089
01:10:29,480 --> 01:10:32,040
permission.
And what do you know, our

1090
01:10:32,040 --> 01:10:34,440
government's not giving them
permission to go on and police

1091
01:10:34,440 --> 01:10:38,680
this stuff.
So, I don't know, you sit back

1092
01:10:38,680 --> 01:10:42,120
and you go, wow, could that be a
recipe for disaster or the

1093
01:10:42,120 --> 01:10:47,720
building of a of a such a deep
seated animosity towards a class

1094
01:10:47,720 --> 01:10:51,360
of people?
It could.

1095
01:10:51,840 --> 01:10:55,160
Does that mean we failed?
No, I don't think so just yet.

1096
01:10:55,440 --> 01:10:57,000
Does it mean we better be
serious?

1097
01:10:57,440 --> 01:10:59,320
Probably.
Absolutely.

1098
01:10:59,320 --> 01:11:01,480
Probably.
Absolutely.

1099
01:11:02,360 --> 01:11:05,800
For this next part, I I kind of
want to bring Mason in on this

1100
01:11:05,800 --> 01:11:07,960
'cause he's fresh removed from
this cause.

1101
01:11:08,440 --> 01:11:13,360
Mason, didn't you say in in some
of of the areas you were at,

1102
01:11:13,360 --> 01:11:16,760
they included the reservations?
Yeah, so.

1103
01:11:16,760 --> 01:11:20,400
While I was on my mission, I
served in the Utah Provo mission

1104
01:11:20,560 --> 01:11:26,840
and about a month into it, or a
month and a half, they opened up

1105
01:11:26,840 --> 01:11:32,200
a new area and it was called the
Roosevelt Native American Area

1106
01:11:32,200 --> 01:11:36,200
because they opened up a new
branch that was specifically for

1107
01:11:36,440 --> 01:11:39,400
Native Americans in that area in
the Ute reservation.

1108
01:11:40,960 --> 01:11:43,920
How did that go?
How, how was how was it out

1109
01:11:43,920 --> 01:11:46,520
there trying to preach the
gospel on the reservation?

1110
01:11:48,400 --> 01:11:52,600
So the the biggest thing of
interest for me was that a lot

1111
01:11:52,600 --> 01:11:56,480
of the Native Americans kind of
accepted the basic premise of

1112
01:11:56,480 --> 01:11:59,320
the Book of Mormon already.
They believe that Jesus Christ

1113
01:11:59,320 --> 01:12:03,000
visited their ancestors and that
they're descendants of Israel.

1114
01:12:03,280 --> 01:12:07,560
But for the most part, a lot of
the people I talked to were very

1115
01:12:07,880 --> 01:12:11,600
open to hearing about Jesus
Christ and often exchanged

1116
01:12:11,600 --> 01:12:16,560
stories about how they felt this
particular tradition in their

1117
01:12:16,560 --> 01:12:22,200
ancestral like tales was was
actually talking about Jesus

1118
01:12:22,200 --> 01:12:25,800
Christ visiting them.
OK.

1119
01:12:25,800 --> 01:12:28,920
I got one more question for you
because because I'm taking this

1120
01:12:28,920 --> 01:12:32,760
line of thought somewhere here.
What was the biggest impediment

1121
01:12:32,760 --> 01:12:38,560
you think to to having massive
success on the reservations?

1122
01:12:41,640 --> 01:12:47,040
I would say probably the
attitude of members of the

1123
01:12:47,040 --> 01:12:53,480
church, my companion, I feel
like reflected a very prominent

1124
01:12:53,480 --> 01:12:56,440
attitude of the people there.
And it was very much we have

1125
01:12:56,440 --> 01:12:58,160
nothing to learn from these
people.

1126
01:12:58,440 --> 01:13:02,360
You know, the these I, I am here
and I do not need to learn

1127
01:13:02,360 --> 01:13:05,200
anything about their culture.
I don't need to learn anything

1128
01:13:05,200 --> 01:13:08,320
about their spiritual habits.
I don't they, they're ignorant

1129
01:13:08,320 --> 01:13:12,560
to the gospel and I'm here to
introduce them to it because

1130
01:13:12,560 --> 01:13:16,040
they, they know nothing.
And on top of that, there was

1131
01:13:16,040 --> 01:13:20,960
kind of this feeling of the, a
very valid feeling among the

1132
01:13:20,960 --> 01:13:26,040
Native Americans about being
historically marginalized by the

1133
01:13:26,040 --> 01:13:30,600
church.
But I, I would, I would really

1134
01:13:30,600 --> 01:13:34,800
say on our end, the, the biggest
hold back, the biggest set back

1135
01:13:34,800 --> 01:13:39,640
is the fact that we feel like
we, we know so much more and

1136
01:13:39,640 --> 01:13:42,760
that we can't learn anything
from them.

1137
01:13:43,240 --> 01:13:46,280
Kind of an error of superiority.
Yeah.

1138
01:13:46,640 --> 01:13:50,880
And another thing that I noticed
too, is that there is a general

1139
01:13:50,880 --> 01:13:53,840
disbelief about what the Book of
Mormon says about them.

1140
01:13:54,440 --> 01:13:57,920
I I had to teach a lot of my
companions that the Book of

1141
01:13:57,920 --> 01:14:02,040
Mormon was actually about these
people's ancestors, which was

1142
01:14:02,040 --> 01:14:03,960
crazy to me.
I thought that was common

1143
01:14:03,960 --> 01:14:08,520
knowledge, but a lot of them
were just unaware.

1144
01:14:08,960 --> 01:14:12,960
They didn't know that the Book
of Mormon, the promises that

1145
01:14:12,960 --> 01:14:18,320
were made to Nephi and and
Lehigh and and all the

1146
01:14:18,320 --> 01:14:23,360
patriarchs in in that great book
were extended to these people.

1147
01:14:23,480 --> 01:14:27,880
They didn't know that.
I remember too, we were talking

1148
01:14:27,880 --> 01:14:31,600
about how a lot of what we've
been talking about tonight where

1149
01:14:32,280 --> 01:14:36,760
in the Book of Mormon, it talks
about how the Native Americans,

1150
01:14:36,760 --> 01:14:42,160
the the Lamanites will
eventually rise up if we, if we

1151
01:14:42,160 --> 01:14:45,880
reject the gospel, wipe us off
the face of this, the new world,

1152
01:14:45,880 --> 01:14:48,720
right?
And my companion just looked at

1153
01:14:48,720 --> 01:14:51,240
me and he goes, I, I do not
believe that that that could

1154
01:14:51,240 --> 01:14:54,000
ever happen.
I mean, look, look at them right

1155
01:14:54,000 --> 01:14:56,080
now.
How could that ever happen?

1156
01:14:57,480 --> 01:15:00,280
I think, I think it's that
mentality that holds us back.

1157
01:15:00,920 --> 01:15:02,880
All right, I appreciate that,
Mason.

1158
01:15:02,880 --> 01:15:05,320
Thank you.
Because I remember you.

1159
01:15:06,480 --> 01:15:09,160
I'm gonna get some mission
president in trouble.

1160
01:15:09,480 --> 01:15:13,160
I remember when Mason was was
telling me that on his mission,

1161
01:15:13,160 --> 01:15:18,480
he would just kind of message me
and and be like, you know, this

1162
01:15:18,480 --> 01:15:21,920
is what's what's happening here.
And I think that that that's

1163
01:15:21,920 --> 01:15:25,960
really if we're going to take
this message to him and and this

1164
01:15:25,960 --> 01:15:28,760
is where I kind of want to go
next here a little bit.

1165
01:15:28,760 --> 01:15:33,640
Jeff is, is one, if we believe
we have the fullness, right.

1166
01:15:33,640 --> 01:15:38,000
If that's, if we're that
convinced, then it is incumbent

1167
01:15:38,000 --> 01:15:41,800
upon us at this point that we
gotta take this tool, right.

1168
01:15:41,800 --> 01:15:45,320
We have to offer this.
That's our scriptural injunction

1169
01:15:45,560 --> 01:15:49,080
with that.
We have to do it in such a way

1170
01:15:49,560 --> 01:15:54,200
that we don't fall into some of
the same pitfalls that maybe

1171
01:15:54,800 --> 01:15:58,760
some of those missionaries, and
not just in Mason's generation,

1172
01:15:58,760 --> 01:16:03,080
but throughout the breath of, of
Mormon's dealings with, with the

1173
01:16:03,080 --> 01:16:06,120
Native Americans.
We can't fall into that trap

1174
01:16:06,440 --> 01:16:10,960
where where we we get into this
idea that that we're we're far

1175
01:16:10,960 --> 01:16:14,040
superior, you know what I mean?
I, I actually, I mean, I

1176
01:16:14,040 --> 01:16:18,600
absolutely agree with you.
You know, there's a lot of, you

1177
01:16:18,600 --> 01:16:22,200
know, there's a pretty long list
in 3rd Nephi 16 where the Lord

1178
01:16:22,200 --> 01:16:27,800
himself talks about the attitude
of the gentiles in our day.

1179
01:16:28,520 --> 01:16:32,880
And it's, it's, it's not a, not
a good list.

1180
01:16:33,560 --> 01:16:38,960
No, you know, and, and so I, I
would agree with you completely.

1181
01:16:39,560 --> 01:16:44,960
I think that I think that if a
person were to read, you know,

1182
01:16:44,960 --> 01:16:51,040
the of the church's attempt from
Brigham Young, that era, once

1183
01:16:51,040 --> 01:16:57,160
they once they fled to Utah, the
church's attempt to live as, as

1184
01:16:57,160 --> 01:17:01,200
one, you know, to set up and
establish united orders and live

1185
01:17:01,200 --> 01:17:06,160
the law of consecration.
And they had some amazing

1186
01:17:06,160 --> 01:17:10,200
successes for a period of time
and some failures, which happens

1187
01:17:10,200 --> 01:17:12,560
when you're trying to figure out
how to do this.

1188
01:17:13,880 --> 01:17:16,120
You know, it's kind of rare in
the history of mankind.

1189
01:17:17,560 --> 01:17:25,480
Probably Enoch, maybe, you know,
Melchizedek, you know, a few, a

1190
01:17:25,480 --> 01:17:30,040
few individuals 100 years here,
a couple 100 years there.

1191
01:17:30,200 --> 01:17:33,040
And then it just falls apart
with new generation.

1192
01:17:35,280 --> 01:17:45,440
But I think that we, we fail to
recognize that salvation is both

1193
01:17:45,440 --> 01:17:50,880
temporal and spiritual and that
you can't really even explore

1194
01:17:51,440 --> 01:17:55,280
spiritual, your spirituality if
your needs are not met

1195
01:17:55,280 --> 01:17:59,600
temporally, right?
If you don't know where, if you

1196
01:17:59,600 --> 01:18:03,040
don't know that your family's
going to be warm, if you don't

1197
01:18:03,040 --> 01:18:08,000
have a home, if you are in
bondage to a class or a

1198
01:18:08,000 --> 01:18:12,080
structure or a government or
anything that controls the way

1199
01:18:12,080 --> 01:18:19,880
you think, how can you almost
even obtain A level of salvation

1200
01:18:20,120 --> 01:18:23,600
through your worship if your
worship requires you to not only

1201
01:18:23,840 --> 01:18:26,480
believe but to act?
You know, there's kind of a

1202
01:18:26,480 --> 01:18:31,040
peculiar item in Mormonism.
If you believe that you need to

1203
01:18:31,040 --> 01:18:34,760
live what you believe and you're
prohibited from it by the

1204
01:18:34,760 --> 01:18:38,800
government, you have a choice to
make.

1205
01:18:39,360 --> 01:18:42,840
But somewhere along the line, we
need to understand that that the

1206
01:18:42,840 --> 01:18:51,480
gospel is meant to free us
physically and spiritually and

1207
01:18:51,480 --> 01:18:55,320
that these higher principles, if
you will, these principles that

1208
01:18:55,320 --> 01:19:03,280
constitute the more of the
fullness deal with no poor

1209
01:19:03,280 --> 01:19:05,600
amongst you.
You know, if you're worried

1210
01:19:05,600 --> 01:19:08,560
about where your eels going to
come, you're not going to sit

1211
01:19:08,560 --> 01:19:10,160
down and read the scriptures for
three hours.

1212
01:19:10,160 --> 01:19:12,920
You're going to be out trying to
look for an animal to to bring

1213
01:19:12,920 --> 01:19:17,880
home for your children, you
know, or or how can you give

1214
01:19:17,880 --> 01:19:21,760
time and service to your
neighbor if you can't take care

1215
01:19:21,760 --> 01:19:24,240
of your own family?
And these are all things that

1216
01:19:24,240 --> 01:19:26,040
are very real.
Joseph Smith and the early

1217
01:19:26,040 --> 01:19:31,400
brother and taught about them
and and we've kind of we've kind

1218
01:19:31,400 --> 01:19:38,560
of forgotten because our society
has been so successful at giving

1219
01:19:38,560 --> 01:19:44,400
us the things that we need that
that we just kind of things are

1220
01:19:44,400 --> 01:19:48,240
just out of whack.
You know, how do we, how do you

1221
01:19:48,240 --> 01:19:53,200
create a community that doesn't
have any poor, you know, and,

1222
01:19:53,200 --> 01:19:57,760
and make it by choice and
accountability and teach people

1223
01:19:57,760 --> 01:20:02,400
how to rise up and work because
they want to and to be in our

1224
01:20:02,400 --> 01:20:04,560
culture and in the native
culture.

1225
01:20:04,560 --> 01:20:08,560
These are things that are common
to mankind, you know, and so,

1226
01:20:08,560 --> 01:20:12,240
and yet the Lord's gospel
teaches us these things.

1227
01:20:12,360 --> 01:20:17,600
If we can implement them, then
we have a chance at finding the

1228
01:20:17,600 --> 01:20:21,680
higher things spiritually.
You know, the higher blessings.

1229
01:20:22,720 --> 01:20:26,840
Ask ourselves as a culture, all
of us as Mormons, you know, do

1230
01:20:26,840 --> 01:20:30,880
we have all the gifts of the
Spirit, you know, are we doing

1231
01:20:30,880 --> 01:20:35,480
what it takes to receive all the
blessings of the Lord in our own

1232
01:20:35,480 --> 01:20:37,560
personal lives as well as our
communities?

1233
01:20:38,600 --> 01:20:43,480
You know, and so I I think that
as we try to implement with our

1234
01:20:43,480 --> 01:20:47,400
family 1st and then branch out
to our neighbors and our

1235
01:20:47,400 --> 01:20:49,760
families and our friends.
And if we have the opportunity

1236
01:20:49,760 --> 01:20:54,400
to try to understand and search
out and ask the Lord help us to

1237
01:20:54,400 --> 01:20:58,960
learn how to live the higher
principles with our neighbors to

1238
01:20:58,960 --> 01:21:02,160
truly love our neighbor as
ourselves because that's that's

1239
01:21:02,160 --> 01:21:05,560
the very basic injunction of the
Lord through all of you know

1240
01:21:06,200 --> 01:21:09,320
from the beginning of times to
treat our fellow man in in a

1241
01:21:09,400 --> 01:21:13,120
kind and compassionate way.
And we still struggle with that.

1242
01:21:14,360 --> 01:21:18,360
Sure, very deep level and you.
Know what?

1243
01:21:18,360 --> 01:21:19,640
Go ahead.
Sorry, Jeff, I didn't mean to

1244
01:21:19,640 --> 01:21:23,280
cut you off.
The the world system is is

1245
01:21:23,280 --> 01:21:27,760
created on purpose to keep us
from being able to explore that,

1246
01:21:29,280 --> 01:21:30,720
you know.
It's yeah, it's.

1247
01:21:30,800 --> 01:21:34,240
Very.
Yeah, I couldn't, I couldn't

1248
01:21:34,240 --> 01:21:37,120
agree more with you.
There's a couple of things that

1249
01:21:37,120 --> 01:21:43,640
tie into this.
One is, is this idea of well,

1250
01:21:43,800 --> 01:21:47,080
you know, maybe they're they're,
you know, they wouldn't accept

1251
01:21:47,080 --> 01:21:49,600
it because gosh, look at how
rough they look.

1252
01:21:50,480 --> 01:21:55,040
Let me kick you back to when
when I met Amber, I'm a guy who

1253
01:21:55,040 --> 01:21:59,560
had both my ears pierced.
I had hair down past my

1254
01:21:59,560 --> 01:22:01,760
shoulders.
I got a couple tattoos.

1255
01:22:02,560 --> 01:22:05,400
Like I said before, I was mixed
up with some stuff.

1256
01:22:05,400 --> 01:22:08,560
I not probably, I definitely
shouldn't have been mixed up in

1257
01:22:09,600 --> 01:22:13,680
and I was pretty rough, right.
And so when, when I joined the

1258
01:22:13,680 --> 01:22:19,160
church, a lot of the people I
used to hang with, they were

1259
01:22:19,160 --> 01:22:21,440
kind of amazed.
They were like, well, why would

1260
01:22:21,440 --> 01:22:24,080
you accept that?
And I think it's that same

1261
01:22:24,080 --> 01:22:29,320
attitude that really prevents us
from really preaching the gospel

1262
01:22:29,320 --> 01:22:32,520
of people.
Sometimes I think we can, we can

1263
01:22:32,520 --> 01:22:36,000
talk to the gospel, talk about
the gospel of someone and then

1264
01:22:36,000 --> 01:22:39,400
not really feel it right?
Feel like, well, they're not

1265
01:22:39,400 --> 01:22:41,560
really interested.
And if we're not feeling it,

1266
01:22:41,560 --> 01:22:46,880
they're not feeling it right.
And so if, if we don't take that

1267
01:22:46,880 --> 01:22:51,160
with a level of sincerity that
when the Lord says I, I don't

1268
01:22:51,160 --> 01:22:53,960
care who you are, if you just
get on your knees and repent,

1269
01:22:54,920 --> 01:22:59,320
I'll work with you.
If, if we don't truly have that

1270
01:22:59,880 --> 01:23:04,080
and and can see the worth of
every soul, well, we're gonna

1271
01:23:04,080 --> 01:23:05,720
we're gonna miss that boat all
day long.

1272
01:23:06,960 --> 01:23:11,360
Two, I think there needs to be a
recognition that, and again,

1273
01:23:11,360 --> 01:23:13,840
this is gonna make people mad
and you'll never find anyone

1274
01:23:13,840 --> 01:23:17,560
more patriotic, especially about
the early founding period of

1275
01:23:17,560 --> 01:23:21,200
America than I am.
But I just gotta call it like I

1276
01:23:21,200 --> 01:23:23,920
see it.
All the programs that we have

1277
01:23:23,920 --> 01:23:28,240
instituted as a society to try
to help folks out that are

1278
01:23:28,240 --> 01:23:31,440
living on those reservations
have done nothing but made it

1279
01:23:31,440 --> 01:23:35,240
worse.
And, and we kind of suck at it,

1280
01:23:35,240 --> 01:23:38,040
to be honest with you.
At some point we'd have think,

1281
01:23:38,200 --> 01:23:40,240
we'd have thought maybe we
should try something different,

1282
01:23:40,240 --> 01:23:43,240
but we just haven't.
And so some of the conditions

1283
01:23:43,240 --> 01:23:46,600
that they find themselves in, I
think it does take a recognition

1284
01:23:46,600 --> 01:23:50,640
that you know what, while, while
everybody has their agency and

1285
01:23:50,640 --> 01:23:56,560
everybody does, sometimes if you
set a horrible table, well,

1286
01:23:56,560 --> 01:24:00,040
you're gonna eat horrible food.
And, and I think there needs to

1287
01:24:00,040 --> 01:24:01,720
be a recognition of that as
well.

1288
01:24:02,640 --> 01:24:05,440
But I think this is the beauty
of of what we're talking about

1289
01:24:05,440 --> 01:24:07,600
is that it doesn't have to be
that way.

1290
01:24:07,840 --> 01:24:13,600
Even now in this late stage, we
have an opportunity that quite

1291
01:24:13,600 --> 01:24:16,640
frankly, I feel a lot of people
starting to wake up towards,

1292
01:24:16,800 --> 01:24:19,840
right, this idea of, of
fulfilling these things.

1293
01:24:20,600 --> 01:24:23,000
I think there are people out
there who are feeling it.

1294
01:24:23,000 --> 01:24:25,600
I've had the emails, I've talked
to people who feel it.

1295
01:24:26,080 --> 01:24:30,320
And if if that's the case, then
then we gotta get on the ball.

1296
01:24:30,320 --> 01:24:34,480
We gotta get going.
So we've kind of answered the

1297
01:24:34,480 --> 01:24:37,880
question about, you know, do we
have the fullness?

1298
01:24:37,880 --> 01:24:40,720
Well, I think, I think
definitely all of us here can

1299
01:24:40,960 --> 01:24:44,080
feel like, well, yeah, as much
as we can, right?

1300
01:24:45,840 --> 01:24:48,760
And, and if we do have doubts, I
don't think that should

1301
01:24:48,760 --> 01:24:54,680
necessarily prevent us from
going and starting this work,

1302
01:24:54,680 --> 01:24:57,000
right?
Sometimes what I've noticed is

1303
01:24:57,000 --> 01:24:59,640
that the Lord is like, just do
something, right?

1304
01:24:59,640 --> 01:25:02,920
Don't just sit there and not do
anything, do something.

1305
01:25:03,160 --> 01:25:06,160
And then I'll get involved and
then we'll work together and get

1306
01:25:06,160 --> 01:25:10,560
this finished up.
And so I think, what's that?

1307
01:25:11,160 --> 01:25:14,480
Go ahead.
I just thought to share in that

1308
01:25:14,640 --> 01:25:18,920
in that light, it's, you know,
as I look at these things and

1309
01:25:18,920 --> 01:25:21,560
I'm not a Scriptorian, I'm not a
historian like it.

1310
01:25:21,560 --> 01:25:25,480
For me, I get lost in those
elements.

1311
01:25:25,480 --> 01:25:29,520
But I still have a deep passion
and love for the gospel.

1312
01:25:29,520 --> 01:25:34,280
And I want to share that.
But sometimes you look like, OK,

1313
01:25:34,840 --> 01:25:37,800
share the fullness with these
people who need it.

1314
01:25:37,800 --> 01:25:41,400
And I'm getting here going, but
I'm so imperfect.

1315
01:25:41,880 --> 01:25:44,200
I'm not a perfect example of the
fullness.

1316
01:25:44,200 --> 01:25:46,360
Who am I to share that with
somebody else?

1317
01:25:46,360 --> 01:25:49,040
Do I even have it?
There's a certain element that

1318
01:25:49,040 --> 01:25:54,480
we don't feel qualified to go
out and give this away because,

1319
01:25:54,800 --> 01:25:56,120
you know, I'm not the expert
here.

1320
01:25:56,120 --> 01:25:58,520
Surely somebody else out there
is better than me.

1321
01:25:58,920 --> 01:26:01,760
But I think what your point was
very accurate.

1322
01:26:02,080 --> 01:26:07,120
We have to start somewhere and
it needs to be what's true to

1323
01:26:07,120 --> 01:26:08,920
our heart.
Maybe, maybe we don't know the

1324
01:26:08,920 --> 01:26:14,760
scriptures to back it up, but we
we live in the example of Christ

1325
01:26:14,760 --> 01:26:16,440
and we share that through our
actions.

1326
01:26:16,440 --> 01:26:21,120
We share our passion through our
actions and we're continually as

1327
01:26:21,120 --> 01:26:24,880
individuals going to God saying
I'm sorry for the areas I fall

1328
01:26:24,880 --> 01:26:26,960
short.
Show me more.

1329
01:26:26,960 --> 01:26:31,600
Show me how to do it better.
Show me the fullness where I

1330
01:26:31,600 --> 01:26:36,520
lack, I'm lacking so that I can
have more of it to share.

1331
01:26:36,880 --> 01:26:39,960
Because even if all you know is
a little bit of the gospel, that

1332
01:26:39,960 --> 01:26:43,520
can still bless somebody's life.
And if you know more of the

1333
01:26:43,520 --> 01:26:46,200
gospel, well, that can bless
more lives.

1334
01:26:46,880 --> 01:26:49,200
And I think that just
increasingly grows.

1335
01:26:49,320 --> 01:26:54,880
The more we gain is whatever we
have, we share, 'cause even if

1336
01:26:54,880 --> 01:26:58,360
it's just a little bit, that is
the gospel and that's worth

1337
01:26:58,360 --> 01:27:01,760
sharing.
No, I I completely agree.

1338
01:27:01,760 --> 01:27:04,360
It reminds me a little bit of
the Parable of the 10 Talents.

1339
01:27:04,880 --> 01:27:07,400
We have these things.
It's our responsibility to go

1340
01:27:07,400 --> 01:27:09,880
and do something with them and
not just hoard it to ourselves.

1341
01:27:11,800 --> 01:27:15,440
Another thought I had, you know,
Jeff, you were talking about how

1342
01:27:15,440 --> 01:27:18,240
difficult it is to focus on the
spiritual and her temporal needs

1343
01:27:18,240 --> 01:27:22,840
aren't met.
And then Mason's comments about

1344
01:27:22,840 --> 01:27:26,880
the attitude of some of the
missionaries going in to to the

1345
01:27:26,880 --> 01:27:30,960
Native Americans.
And I just kept coming back to

1346
01:27:30,960 --> 01:27:34,560
the example we have in the Book
of Mormon of Ammon and his

1347
01:27:34,560 --> 01:27:36,720
missionary and his mission to
the Lamanites.

1348
01:27:37,360 --> 01:27:39,040
He went in there in an attitude
of service.

1349
01:27:39,040 --> 01:27:42,280
And the first thing he did was
take care of a temporal problem

1350
01:27:42,280 --> 01:27:45,440
that the king had, you know, the
the sheep taking care of the

1351
01:27:45,440 --> 01:27:48,000
King's sheep that represents a
source of clothing and a source

1352
01:27:48,000 --> 01:27:50,960
of food and not to mention some
maternal uprising in the

1353
01:27:50,960 --> 01:27:53,680
Kingdom.
And by helping the king to take

1354
01:27:53,680 --> 01:27:56,680
care, by relying on God to take
care of these temporal needs for

1355
01:27:56,680 --> 01:28:00,480
the king, it opened the king up
to a place where he could hear

1356
01:28:00,480 --> 01:28:02,920
Ammon talk to him on the
spiritual level.

1357
01:28:03,960 --> 01:28:05,400
And you know, that's just a
thought.

1358
01:28:05,400 --> 01:28:07,640
I hadn't really connected before
that.

1359
01:28:09,000 --> 01:28:12,880
No, I hear that temporal.
I, I think both are, are

1360
01:28:12,880 --> 01:28:19,760
absolutely perfect, right,
Because it's not gonna just be a

1361
01:28:19,880 --> 01:28:22,720
spiritual mission and it's not
gonna be just a temporal

1362
01:28:22,720 --> 01:28:24,360
mission.
We're, you know, again, we're

1363
01:28:24,360 --> 01:28:27,880
talking the fullness, right?
The, the other thing I would

1364
01:28:27,880 --> 01:28:30,640
say, and and I think Vanessa,
you really pointed this out.

1365
01:28:30,640 --> 01:28:34,120
Well, is this idea and and I
think it's one of the, the, the

1366
01:28:34,120 --> 01:28:37,000
adversary's most clever ploys,
right?

1367
01:28:37,120 --> 01:28:40,520
Is that what do you, you know,
what does, what does Dave really

1368
01:28:40,520 --> 01:28:41,960
know?
He doesn't know anything.

1369
01:28:42,240 --> 01:28:46,120
Just stay home, turn on the TV,
eat some Doritos, watch a little

1370
01:28:46,120 --> 01:28:48,600
football.
You're gonna be happier there.

1371
01:28:49,000 --> 01:28:50,360
You're not gonna look like a
fool.

1372
01:28:50,360 --> 01:28:56,320
It's a clever, clever ploy.
And, and what we fail to miss

1373
01:28:56,320 --> 01:29:00,600
is, is that nowhere do I see in
the scriptures or in early

1374
01:29:00,600 --> 01:29:04,560
church history accounts that
anyone was blessed by just

1375
01:29:04,560 --> 01:29:06,920
hanging out and doing nothing,
right?

1376
01:29:07,240 --> 01:29:09,040
The Lord's like, get in there,
son.

1377
01:29:09,360 --> 01:29:13,120
This is not a spectator sport.
You know, you gotta get in there

1378
01:29:13,120 --> 01:29:16,440
and you gotta mix it up and you
gotta go for it, whatever that

1379
01:29:16,440 --> 01:29:19,120
looks like.
And so I, I think as, as we

1380
01:29:19,120 --> 01:29:22,240
approach our Native American
brothers and sisters, we have to

1381
01:29:22,240 --> 01:29:26,080
do it from a place of one
humility, right?

1382
01:29:26,080 --> 01:29:31,920
Understand that that covenant is
still in place, the one that

1383
01:29:31,920 --> 01:29:35,440
that the Lord made the Lehigh
and his posterity that's still

1384
01:29:35,440 --> 01:29:38,200
in force.
And if that's the case, that

1385
01:29:38,200 --> 01:29:41,320
should be good enough for us as
disciples of Christ, right?

1386
01:29:41,560 --> 01:29:45,640
That should be enough to be
like, OK, these are these are

1387
01:29:45,640 --> 01:29:48,040
people of worth.
The Lord cares about them.

1388
01:29:48,360 --> 01:29:51,680
And if I'm trying to align my
will with the will of the Lords,

1389
01:29:51,680 --> 01:29:54,240
then they should be pretty
important to me as well.

1390
01:29:55,120 --> 01:30:00,080
And then take it to him in, in,
in, in that, in that frame.

1391
01:30:00,720 --> 01:30:04,720
And, and I loved what you said
about, about, you know, when you

1392
01:30:04,720 --> 01:30:07,600
reiterated what Jeff had said
about we're gonna have to, to

1393
01:30:07,600 --> 01:30:09,880
help out there with the temporal
needs.

1394
01:30:11,040 --> 01:30:15,200
And, and there's, there's some
work out there, but, but I think

1395
01:30:15,200 --> 01:30:16,960
we can get it done.
I really do.

1396
01:30:17,760 --> 01:30:20,600
Jeff, what you have any thoughts
on that as well?

1397
01:30:22,680 --> 01:30:25,920
Hours and hours, but maybe
another time.

1398
01:30:26,600 --> 01:30:31,000
I, I just think that you, you
kind of hit the nail on the head

1399
01:30:31,000 --> 01:30:34,600
when you said, you know, you get
started sometimes.

1400
01:30:34,600 --> 01:30:38,600
Sometimes the Lord, you know,
he's, he's asked our whole

1401
01:30:38,600 --> 01:30:42,120
generation, you know, preach
nothing to this generation but

1402
01:30:42,120 --> 01:30:45,000
repentance.
Well, that's a broad subject

1403
01:30:45,080 --> 01:30:47,920
matter, you know, and when you
start going out and saying

1404
01:30:47,920 --> 01:30:51,080
repent, it all applies to
everybody, including yourself.

1405
01:30:51,680 --> 01:30:54,320
But you mean, you know, where do
you go from there?

1406
01:30:54,800 --> 01:30:57,800
Well, it just means talking
about the gospel and being

1407
01:30:57,800 --> 01:31:00,200
willing to say, hey, we need to
do this.

1408
01:31:00,200 --> 01:31:02,280
We need to figure this out.
Now.

1409
01:31:02,280 --> 01:31:05,040
This is a message of repentance,
but it's for all of us.

1410
01:31:05,520 --> 01:31:08,840
I mean, when if you're talking
about repentance, what is that

1411
01:31:08,840 --> 01:31:12,840
but course correction?
And it's looking at where you're

1412
01:31:12,840 --> 01:31:17,280
at and figuring out how you can
aim better, fix something,

1413
01:31:17,680 --> 01:31:21,640
improve something, get better at
something.

1414
01:31:21,680 --> 01:31:24,560
And I'd, I think, you know, it's
easy to say repent, but

1415
01:31:24,560 --> 01:31:29,280
repentance comes with, do this
instead or pursue this path that

1416
01:31:29,280 --> 01:31:32,440
God has showed us because it
leads to more joy, more

1417
01:31:32,440 --> 01:31:34,360
happiness, more peace, more
spirit.

1418
01:31:34,840 --> 01:31:38,560
So it's not just feel bad
because you've done bad things,

1419
01:31:39,000 --> 01:31:42,720
it's change yourself so that you
don't feel bad.

1420
01:31:43,760 --> 01:31:46,720
I, I, I have to admit, you know,
in the last several months, as I

1421
01:31:46,720 --> 01:31:51,880
pondered these things and, you
know, and, and, and read, reread

1422
01:31:51,880 --> 01:31:54,640
them and go over them and try to
figure out what it means.

1423
01:31:54,640 --> 01:31:58,480
It, it almost always reflects
back to me personally, You know,

1424
01:31:58,480 --> 01:32:03,000
I'll find my in a conversation
with the Lord saying, what do

1425
01:32:03,000 --> 01:32:07,000
you mean by all what, what does
that mean?

1426
01:32:07,000 --> 01:32:13,280
And, and wherein do I lack?
What do, what can I do to, to,

1427
01:32:13,280 --> 01:32:16,960
to live better, you know, and
then he'll show you and you're

1428
01:32:16,960 --> 01:32:22,160
like, Oh, you know, yeah, that,
yeah, that OK.

1429
01:32:22,480 --> 01:32:25,680
And then you work on it and then
he gives you a little bit more.

1430
01:32:26,280 --> 01:32:32,440
And, you know, I had, I had
several experiences, you know,

1431
01:32:32,440 --> 01:32:37,400
in my in my pursuit of the
fullness years ago, where the

1432
01:32:37,400 --> 01:32:41,200
Lord kind of gave me some of
those aha moments where I just

1433
01:32:41,200 --> 01:32:43,080
ready for a mission, ready to go
do this.

1434
01:32:43,080 --> 01:32:44,760
Exactly what we're talking
about.

1435
01:32:45,440 --> 01:32:48,400
And the Lord had to stop me and
say, how can you go teach

1436
01:32:48,400 --> 01:32:52,760
something you don't have?
Which was very profound to me.

1437
01:32:53,360 --> 01:32:57,800
And you know, and, and it wasn't
just polygamy that was a part of

1438
01:32:57,800 --> 01:33:02,080
it, but it was also United order
and that was a part of it.

1439
01:33:02,120 --> 01:33:04,840
And then how many other things
are a part of it?

1440
01:33:07,560 --> 01:33:10,480
And so he didn't just throw me
out there.

1441
01:33:10,840 --> 01:33:13,680
He impressed upon me years and
years ago that there was

1442
01:33:13,680 --> 01:33:19,200
something important with this
concept and with this, this part

1443
01:33:19,200 --> 01:33:23,240
of the gospel.
I mean, almost, I don't know how

1444
01:33:23,240 --> 01:33:26,240
many, how many different
chapters in 3rd Nephi go over

1445
01:33:26,240 --> 01:33:28,120
this thing.
There's Third Nephi 16 that's

1446
01:33:28,120 --> 01:33:31,040
very specific.
And you've got 21 and 23 and,

1447
01:33:31,400 --> 01:33:34,240
you know, all of these things
where the Lord reiterates over

1448
01:33:34,240 --> 01:33:39,040
and over again, telling us that
this is an important part of the

1449
01:33:39,040 --> 01:33:43,120
last days, an important part of
preparing for his second coming.

1450
01:33:44,200 --> 01:33:47,320
And so here, you know, here we
sit.

1451
01:33:47,880 --> 01:33:53,120
A lot of things seem to be out
there that if other things were

1452
01:33:53,120 --> 01:33:57,360
in place, you we might just be
able to say, wow, here we are.

1453
01:33:58,520 --> 01:34:00,120
But I don't think we're there
yet.

1454
01:34:00,640 --> 01:34:05,560
I think, you know, and unless we
fail and I can't even comprehend

1455
01:34:06,080 --> 01:34:11,280
that, you know, individually and
and collectively, somehow I

1456
01:34:11,280 --> 01:34:15,920
believe there's still a chance
for us to do something good.

1457
01:34:16,400 --> 01:34:20,120
You know, that means as in as we
gather together, you know, you

1458
01:34:20,120 --> 01:34:24,840
look at look at Ammon.
Cherise brought up the story of

1459
01:34:24,840 --> 01:34:27,680
Ammon and he and his brothers,
they go to the king and like,

1460
01:34:27,680 --> 01:34:30,120
hey, we want to go on a mission.
And the King's like, no, no,

1461
01:34:30,120 --> 01:34:31,360
nothing doing.
They'll kill you.

1462
01:34:32,160 --> 01:34:35,480
And and yet he was a a spiritual
man.

1463
01:34:35,520 --> 01:34:38,000
Mosiah was one of the greatest,
right?

1464
01:34:38,680 --> 01:34:42,280
We look up to Mosiah, but
eventually he prayed about it.

1465
01:34:42,360 --> 01:34:45,280
Lord said, I'll watch over them,
send them out.

1466
01:34:46,040 --> 01:34:48,640
Just a couple, you know.
So they and their buddies went

1467
01:34:48,640 --> 01:34:52,240
on a mission.
And of course the rest is

1468
01:34:52,240 --> 01:34:55,520
history of that story.
Some of the greatest moments of

1469
01:34:55,520 --> 01:35:01,280
the Book of Mormon that touch
our soul are the rising up of a

1470
01:35:01,280 --> 01:35:07,600
combined people who then
eventually went and lived the

1471
01:35:07,600 --> 01:35:10,200
things we're talking about.
I don't know if they were living

1472
01:35:10,200 --> 01:35:14,200
polygamy, that's not in there,
but they certainly lived without

1473
01:35:14,200 --> 01:35:16,360
any poor.
And the Nephites gave them a

1474
01:35:16,360 --> 01:35:22,880
land to go and they lived a
humble lifestyle that they had

1475
01:35:22,880 --> 01:35:24,880
what they needed.
They had all their, you know,

1476
01:35:24,880 --> 01:35:27,080
they had all their stuff and the
Lord blessed them greatly.

1477
01:35:29,920 --> 01:35:34,040
And it was just because a few
brothers and we got to go on a

1478
01:35:34,040 --> 01:35:36,520
mission.
Let's go do this.

1479
01:35:37,760 --> 01:35:42,000
So, you know, I, it wasn't an
organized thing.

1480
01:35:43,080 --> 01:35:47,200
It, it wasn't something I, I
think in the, in the church

1481
01:35:47,200 --> 01:35:50,640
growing up, there were a lot of
things we don't do unless you're

1482
01:35:50,640 --> 01:35:53,080
told to do them.
You know, we're we're a person

1483
01:35:53,080 --> 01:35:58,440
who who, who waits until we're I
won't say compelled because you

1484
01:35:59,560 --> 01:36:04,360
know, you know, DNC 56 talked
about not being compelled in all

1485
01:36:04,360 --> 01:36:07,080
things or you're slothful and
unwise servant, but that you

1486
01:36:07,080 --> 01:36:12,160
should do much good of your own
free will because you want to,

1487
01:36:13,080 --> 01:36:15,600
you know, you should be
anxiously engaged in a good

1488
01:36:15,600 --> 01:36:19,040
cause.
The Lord frees us to pursue

1489
01:36:19,440 --> 01:36:22,600
living his gospel without
somebody saying you got to go do

1490
01:36:22,600 --> 01:36:24,920
this.
And yet the Lord said go do it.

1491
01:36:24,920 --> 01:36:27,360
So I mean, that's enough, right?
We've already had the injunction

1492
01:36:28,320 --> 01:36:31,560
get out there and do this.
But it's real easy to sit back

1493
01:36:31,560 --> 01:36:32,960
and say, well, I haven't been
sent.

1494
01:36:33,960 --> 01:36:35,720
I can't go because I'll get in
trouble.

1495
01:36:36,160 --> 01:36:38,840
Well, people will think, who are
you to want to go do this?

1496
01:36:39,040 --> 01:36:43,600
Well, I'm just a guy who
believes in Jesus Christ and he

1497
01:36:43,600 --> 01:36:46,760
said that we need to do this,
you know, and we all should feel

1498
01:36:46,760 --> 01:36:49,200
that way about a lot of things
in our lives, obviously.

1499
01:36:51,120 --> 01:36:55,680
So anyway, that's that's how I
feel about the general overall,

1500
01:36:56,720 --> 01:36:59,160
you know, idea of third and E
516.

1501
01:36:59,160 --> 01:37:02,360
It's been a present presently.
I mean, it's been a part of my

1502
01:37:02,360 --> 01:37:08,560
life for, you know, 2020 plus
years and I've struggled and

1503
01:37:08,760 --> 01:37:11,920
done a lot of things and sought
after it.

1504
01:37:11,920 --> 01:37:16,840
And I'm still trying to
understand subtle nuances of how

1505
01:37:16,840 --> 01:37:21,240
to do that, how to capsulate,
you know, the fullness.

1506
01:37:22,720 --> 01:37:27,200
Yeah, to be able to to teach.
But I think that even if we go

1507
01:37:27,200 --> 01:37:30,880
forward and and do our best,
that the Lord will open the

1508
01:37:31,120 --> 01:37:36,200
divorce for people who are at
least looking upwards and

1509
01:37:36,200 --> 01:37:39,360
saying, Lord, I want to keep all
your commandments.

1510
01:37:39,360 --> 01:37:42,720
And then the heavens shake and,
you know, then visitors come.

1511
01:37:42,720 --> 01:37:46,920
And then pretty soon you have a
power and a priesthood that

1512
01:37:46,920 --> 01:37:49,040
thwarts the adversary and his
attempts.

1513
01:37:49,040 --> 01:37:52,080
And pretty soon Zion's
established, I mean, there's a

1514
01:37:52,080 --> 01:37:56,000
real simplified look at things,
but I think God will prepare a

1515
01:37:56,000 --> 01:38:01,120
way for those who go forward,
you know, and say, let's go do

1516
01:38:01,320 --> 01:38:06,400
what we need to do.
When you think about Nephi, when

1517
01:38:06,400 --> 01:38:09,200
he went into the city of
Jerusalem to get the plates, he

1518
01:38:09,200 --> 01:38:12,400
just knew he was supposed to
supposed to move, do something.

1519
01:38:12,400 --> 01:38:15,240
And he even said I went in and I
had no clue, no clue.

1520
01:38:15,400 --> 01:38:17,480
He didn't know what the answer
was.

1521
01:38:17,960 --> 01:38:20,040
No, he's like, I'm just supposed
to go do it.

1522
01:38:20,560 --> 01:38:23,040
No, she got his brethren waiting
on the outside of the wall

1523
01:38:23,280 --> 01:38:25,400
going.
Well, God said he would deliver

1524
01:38:25,400 --> 01:38:27,000
the plates.
This seems like a comfortable

1525
01:38:27,000 --> 01:38:28,640
place to wait.
We've tried.

1526
01:38:28,680 --> 01:38:29,960
We've tried twice.
It didn't work.

1527
01:38:30,600 --> 01:38:34,920
So we'll be here waiting for God
to deliver the plates.

1528
01:38:34,920 --> 01:38:37,160
And NEPA was like, actually, we
need to move our feet if we want

1529
01:38:37,160 --> 01:38:40,720
God to guide us.
So we went into the city not

1530
01:38:40,720 --> 01:38:43,440
knowing what he was going to do,
but just knowing he had to do

1531
01:38:43,440 --> 01:38:45,960
something.
Absolutely.

1532
01:38:45,960 --> 01:38:49,720
That's an interesting story.
A lot of perspectives, Dave,

1533
01:38:49,720 --> 01:38:53,840
because you know, Nephi, you
know, he was the young kid, he

1534
01:38:53,840 --> 01:38:57,080
probably knew from the beginning
that he might be the one that

1535
01:38:57,080 --> 01:39:01,040
ended up doing it because he
knew his brothers, but he let

1536
01:39:01,040 --> 01:39:03,480
them, you know, he let Laban
take first lead.

1537
01:39:05,000 --> 01:39:10,840
He was the oldest and, you know,
he had the birthright and, and

1538
01:39:10,840 --> 01:39:15,320
then eventually, you know, they
eventually he's like, I'm just

1539
01:39:15,320 --> 01:39:18,760
going to do this because I
believe that God won't give us

1540
01:39:18,760 --> 01:39:21,240
something to do that we can't
accomplish.

1541
01:39:22,120 --> 01:39:25,080
And so I think there's an
attitude that that, you know,

1542
01:39:25,080 --> 01:39:28,440
that the Book of Mormon is just
so absolutely beautiful in

1543
01:39:28,440 --> 01:39:35,040
giving a story after story after
story of individuals who rose up

1544
01:39:35,960 --> 01:39:40,360
who weren't anything.
They were just a just guys and

1545
01:39:40,360 --> 01:39:43,440
girls who wanted to get it done.
You know.

1546
01:39:43,920 --> 01:39:47,200
Now with Wow, that was really
cool.

1547
01:39:47,920 --> 01:39:54,600
But they, they, they move
forward against such great odds

1548
01:39:54,880 --> 01:39:57,760
in, in their own culture, in
their own society as a general

1549
01:39:57,760 --> 01:40:00,880
rule.
And and yet that's what the book

1550
01:40:00,880 --> 01:40:05,080
is the story of, you know, it's
it's, it's the family or the

1551
01:40:05,080 --> 01:40:08,600
individual rising up to do what
God's asked them to do.

1552
01:40:09,960 --> 01:40:15,280
Absolutely.
I, I think, I think to go along

1553
01:40:15,280 --> 01:40:19,600
with that, it, it goes back to
just do something.

1554
01:40:19,600 --> 01:40:23,920
And, and I think that that too
often we imagine it has to be

1555
01:40:23,920 --> 01:40:27,880
this, this thing where we're all
organized and, and every, we got

1556
01:40:27,880 --> 01:40:30,240
this great plan and we're gonna
go work the plan.

1557
01:40:30,240 --> 01:40:34,360
And I'm not saying not to plan.
We, we all have to, to, to plan

1558
01:40:34,360 --> 01:40:37,440
things.
But if we're waiting for this

1559
01:40:37,440 --> 01:40:42,160
idea of this fantastic structure
that brings a whole bunch of

1560
01:40:42,160 --> 01:40:45,280
fundamentalists under one roof
and and that good luck.

1561
01:40:45,280 --> 01:40:47,800
We're too, we're too different.
I shouldn't say we're too

1562
01:40:47,800 --> 01:40:50,760
different.
We're we're just we're in so

1563
01:40:50,760 --> 01:40:54,640
many different places right now.
I'm a guy who believes that the

1564
01:40:54,640 --> 01:40:58,080
Lord sometimes plays chess and I
think he's moving chess pieces

1565
01:40:58,360 --> 01:41:04,320
on the board as we speak, right.
And so it, it's not about a, a

1566
01:41:04,400 --> 01:41:10,160
massive organization that will,
that will resemble the LDS

1567
01:41:10,160 --> 01:41:11,160
Church.
I agree with you.

1568
01:41:11,680 --> 01:41:14,240
I don't think that's what we see
in the Book of Mormon.

1569
01:41:14,240 --> 01:41:16,800
And I don't think it's gonna be
that way this time either.

1570
01:41:17,200 --> 01:41:19,840
I think it's gonna be just like
you'd said, Jeff, some

1571
01:41:19,840 --> 01:41:22,720
individuals, some some friends
who have gotten together and

1572
01:41:22,720 --> 01:41:26,840
said this is important.
We need to go do this and, and

1573
01:41:26,840 --> 01:41:32,800
they'll go do it.
And so if but, but to do that

1574
01:41:32,800 --> 01:41:35,240
first, I think we have to talk
about it first, right?

1575
01:41:35,240 --> 01:41:39,680
We have to at least point out
the the the the issue at hand,

1576
01:41:39,680 --> 01:41:42,640
which is this has not been done
yet and it needs to get done.

1577
01:41:44,360 --> 01:41:47,160
I, I think that, you know, I
want to acknowledge that at

1578
01:41:47,160 --> 01:41:49,600
least in my experience in
chatting with people, this is a

1579
01:41:49,600 --> 01:41:55,520
topic that that is desired and
talked about by a, a very

1580
01:41:55,520 --> 01:42:00,760
healthy number of individuals.
Most of us have been within

1581
01:42:00,840 --> 01:42:05,400
within groups within cultures
from the church to to cultures

1582
01:42:05,400 --> 01:42:09,920
within fundamentalism where they
don't, they haven't been either

1583
01:42:09,920 --> 01:42:13,280
willing or don't know how to
organize, just like what you're

1584
01:42:13,280 --> 01:42:16,440
talking about.
And so when people start coming

1585
01:42:16,440 --> 01:42:20,560
forward saying let's do this,
it's met with restraint, you

1586
01:42:20,560 --> 01:42:23,520
know, not, not because they
don't want to do it.

1587
01:42:23,720 --> 01:42:26,000
That's not my point.
Matter of fact, many, I think

1588
01:42:26,000 --> 01:42:29,040
there have been many efforts for
the last ever, ever since the

1589
01:42:29,040 --> 01:42:33,040
gospel, you know, to, to move
forward many efforts to try to

1590
01:42:33,040 --> 01:42:37,360
figure out how to go about this.
And it I, I think we kind of

1591
01:42:37,360 --> 01:42:41,720
over, maybe we overthink it, You
know, well, what, you know, all

1592
01:42:41,720 --> 01:42:44,200
the things we've talked about,
we, how do we accomplish this?

1593
01:42:44,200 --> 01:42:48,240
And I think that somehow we just
need to start making the effort

1594
01:42:48,280 --> 01:42:51,960
and, and, and if it means a
bunch of us getting together,

1595
01:42:51,960 --> 01:42:58,640
regardless of group or church,
if there, if this is a subject

1596
01:42:58,640 --> 01:43:04,200
matter that has been on the
minds and the heart and the

1597
01:43:04,200 --> 01:43:10,400
spirit has been touching any of
your listeners, We need to, to

1598
01:43:10,720 --> 01:43:16,080
put together a forum or a, a
list or of people who would like

1599
01:43:16,080 --> 01:43:19,320
to talk about this, share their
experiences, share their passion

1600
01:43:19,320 --> 01:43:26,120
for this and see if we can't
overcome, you know, the, the

1601
01:43:26,120 --> 01:43:28,240
little personal biases that we
have.

1602
01:43:30,320 --> 01:43:32,480
And maybe they're big personal
biases.

1603
01:43:32,960 --> 01:43:35,720
You know, we can sit here and
talk about all these things, but

1604
01:43:37,240 --> 01:43:39,720
we, we're either going to figure
a way to work together on this

1605
01:43:39,760 --> 01:43:41,720
or it's not going to happen.
And then we're all toast.

1606
01:43:42,120 --> 01:43:43,480
I, I don't know how else to say
it.

1607
01:43:43,600 --> 01:43:46,800
You know, we're, we're in a,
we're in a world of hurt and,

1608
01:43:46,800 --> 01:43:50,600
and from the mouth of Jesus
Christ the Lord, we will be

1609
01:43:50,600 --> 01:43:52,440
destroyed if we don't figure
this out.

1610
01:43:52,440 --> 01:43:55,680
Now there's a real selfish way
of looking at it, but I think

1611
01:43:55,680 --> 01:43:59,840
anybody who thinks about this
has the opposite as well within

1612
01:43:59,840 --> 01:44:03,000
their heart that they want more
than anything to make a

1613
01:44:03,000 --> 01:44:10,360
difference in the building up of
Zion and, and, and the love and

1614
01:44:10,360 --> 01:44:15,280
harmony and becoming a part of
whatever that means, the House

1615
01:44:15,280 --> 01:44:18,160
of Israel in the last days,
whatever that means.

1616
01:44:18,160 --> 01:44:21,960
Because, you know, there's an
element of that third Nephi that

1617
01:44:22,000 --> 01:44:26,080
if we, if we don't repent and
join with them as the House of

1618
01:44:26,080 --> 01:44:28,280
Israel.
So we we have that element too.

1619
01:44:30,320 --> 01:44:36,280
I think that I think that a very
key element to all of this is

1620
01:44:36,280 --> 01:44:38,800
personal revelation.
I think that we have to make

1621
01:44:38,800 --> 01:44:41,800
sure, as you put it earlier,
that we're on the side of a

1622
01:44:41,920 --> 01:44:44,680
divine Providence and not
manifest destiny.

1623
01:44:44,680 --> 01:44:48,800
Whatever I do, it will work
because you know, God's on my

1624
01:44:48,800 --> 01:44:51,200
side.
We cannot have that mind frame.

1625
01:44:51,200 --> 01:44:54,640
We have to be able to hear the
personal directions from God in

1626
01:44:54,640 --> 01:44:57,160
the moment.
And you think of Nephi going

1627
01:44:57,160 --> 01:45:00,760
into the city to get the plates.
Without those personal

1628
01:45:00,760 --> 01:45:04,440
instructions from God, he would
not have done what it took to

1629
01:45:04,440 --> 01:45:07,200
get the plates and preserve the
gospel for his people.

1630
01:45:07,560 --> 01:45:10,640
And I think that I think that
everyone who tries to move

1631
01:45:10,640 --> 01:45:13,600
forward on this is going to find
themselves in situations where

1632
01:45:13,600 --> 01:45:18,120
they have to rely on personal
revelation and the gifts of the

1633
01:45:18,120 --> 01:45:21,000
Spirit to know what is needed in
that moment.

1634
01:45:21,000 --> 01:45:24,000
No amount of planning is going
to be sufficient.

1635
01:45:27,120 --> 01:45:31,120
Some of the things that I'm that
that I'm reminded of Dave is

1636
01:45:31,600 --> 01:45:35,320
even though this Scripture
specifically deals with the seed

1637
01:45:35,320 --> 01:45:39,280
of Lehigh, you know, the Lord
goes to great lengths to say

1638
01:45:39,520 --> 01:45:44,720
here's the promise to your your
posterity, but it is a part of

1639
01:45:44,720 --> 01:45:49,200
the larger element of the
remnant from Enoch on down.

1640
01:45:49,560 --> 01:45:52,960
But the remnant of the House of
Israel or the Lord even used the

1641
01:45:52,960 --> 01:45:56,760
seed of Jacob.
OK, that same in those same

1642
01:45:56,760 --> 01:45:59,720
verses, he talks about the seed
of Jacob, which applies to a

1643
01:45:59,720 --> 01:46:02,120
much larger group than just the
seed of Lehigh.

1644
01:46:03,840 --> 01:46:05,880
And and we're all a part of that
group.

1645
01:46:06,720 --> 01:46:10,600
And so there, there are double
nuances and all sorts of things

1646
01:46:10,600 --> 01:46:16,120
going on here.
But when you take into account

1647
01:46:16,120 --> 01:46:18,360
some of the prophecies and the
revelations through the book of

1648
01:46:18,360 --> 01:46:23,720
Isaiah of this time that we're
in right now, you know, there's

1649
01:46:23,720 --> 01:46:27,320
the destruction going on at the
same time that the Lord, you

1650
01:46:27,320 --> 01:46:29,160
know, in the next chapter, the
next verse.

1651
01:46:29,960 --> 01:46:33,160
And then there's the building up
of Zion and the Lord protect

1652
01:46:33,600 --> 01:46:38,920
people at the same time.
And there is a necessity of the

1653
01:46:38,920 --> 01:46:43,960
destruction of the wicked to
give place for the rise of God's

1654
01:46:43,960 --> 01:46:46,560
Kingdom.
You know, we, we hear the, the

1655
01:46:46,560 --> 01:46:50,160
phrase, you know, even in the
Lord's Prayer, you know, our

1656
01:46:50,160 --> 01:46:55,000
Father who art in heaven, you
know, thy will be done, thy

1657
01:46:55,000 --> 01:46:57,280
Kingdom come.
Well, that's exactly what this

1658
01:46:57,280 --> 01:46:59,840
is talking about.
You know, we will, thy will be

1659
01:46:59,840 --> 01:47:00,600
done.
We'll keep all your

1660
01:47:00,600 --> 01:47:03,440
commandments.
You bring heaven down on earth

1661
01:47:03,440 --> 01:47:05,320
with us.
You know, that's what we're

1662
01:47:05,320 --> 01:47:08,680
trying to do is establish the
fulfillment of the prayer that

1663
01:47:08,680 --> 01:47:12,920
Christ asked us to pray.
And that's an

1664
01:47:12,920 --> 01:47:15,560
oversimplification, obviously,
but it's the same deal.

1665
01:47:16,040 --> 01:47:18,600
And so, you know, we're all a
part of it.

1666
01:47:20,120 --> 01:47:24,800
We need to love each other as
family, you know, from, from the

1667
01:47:24,800 --> 01:47:28,280
Gentile to the remnant to the
members of this and members of

1668
01:47:28,280 --> 01:47:32,080
that.
We believe basically the same

1669
01:47:32,080 --> 01:47:35,440
thing.
And it was gone here or we

1670
01:47:35,440 --> 01:47:37,800
wouldn't stick around 'cause
this isn't an easy deal.

1671
01:47:38,200 --> 01:47:42,880
It has its blessings and its
benefits, but it's a life and an

1672
01:47:42,880 --> 01:47:48,440
eternal commitment to live all
of God's will.

1673
01:47:48,880 --> 01:47:52,160
And, and, and we have to repent
all the time and come around

1674
01:47:52,240 --> 01:47:55,040
and, and do better.
And so somehow we need to find a

1675
01:47:55,040 --> 01:47:57,240
way to love each other and to
get over this until the Lord

1676
01:47:57,240 --> 01:48:00,360
comes and you know, and sets
everything just the way it

1677
01:48:00,360 --> 01:48:04,080
should be.
But we better do our part in the

1678
01:48:04,080 --> 01:48:08,720
meantime.
Yeah, so you brought up

1679
01:48:08,720 --> 01:48:16,200
something about a forum and
I'll, I'll put it out there

1680
01:48:16,200 --> 01:48:19,320
right now.
If, if people are interested,

1681
01:48:19,760 --> 01:48:22,560
you get in touch with me and
then I'll set up either a

1682
01:48:22,560 --> 01:48:28,280
Discord page or some sort of of
forum where maybe people can

1683
01:48:28,280 --> 01:48:32,880
start connecting.
And if, if people actually wanna

1684
01:48:32,880 --> 01:48:36,400
go do this work, I'll, I'll
provide the infrastructure so

1685
01:48:36,400 --> 01:48:38,440
that people can meet up and get
this done.

1686
01:48:39,000 --> 01:48:40,600
Because we are spread out,
right?

1687
01:48:40,600 --> 01:48:43,800
I mean, look, you're in South
Dakota, I'm in Missouri, there's

1688
01:48:43,800 --> 01:48:46,960
folks in Utah.
I mean, you know, Mason's in

1689
01:48:46,960 --> 01:48:50,680
Tennessee.
We're all over the place and

1690
01:48:50,680 --> 01:48:54,920
because we're all over the
place, while that seems we can

1691
01:48:54,920 --> 01:48:58,320
get lonely at times, on the
other hand, that puts us in a

1692
01:48:58,320 --> 01:49:03,320
very unique position to where we
can access geographically a

1693
01:49:03,320 --> 01:49:06,280
little easier than maybe the old
days when we were all

1694
01:49:06,280 --> 01:49:09,560
congregated just in Utah or
Justin Naboo.

1695
01:49:10,000 --> 01:49:13,440
We we have some ability here.
So if, if folks are interested,

1696
01:49:14,280 --> 01:49:18,600
you have the e-mail, reach out
to me and, and I'll hook you up

1697
01:49:18,600 --> 01:49:22,440
with other people who might feel
this draw And we'll, you know,

1698
01:49:22,440 --> 01:49:24,360
let's, let's see what we can get
done.

1699
01:49:25,720 --> 01:49:29,080
Talk is cheap.
We can, we can talk all day

1700
01:49:29,080 --> 01:49:33,440
about this and, and talk's
important on, on the front end

1701
01:49:33,440 --> 01:49:35,040
of things.
But at some point the rubbers

1702
01:49:35,040 --> 01:49:38,720
got to meet the road and and we
got to, we got to move forward

1703
01:49:38,720 --> 01:49:42,600
with it.
I agree with you, Dave, I I

1704
01:49:42,600 --> 01:49:46,600
really do.
I think the I think the cry from

1705
01:49:46,600 --> 01:49:51,680
all of us that have felt it
should be to to everyone who's

1706
01:49:51,680 --> 01:49:57,080
ever had any of those thoughts.
If the spirit has ever reached

1707
01:49:57,080 --> 01:50:01,200
out, as you've read that if you
have any inclination whatsoever,

1708
01:50:03,080 --> 01:50:05,560
go before the Lord doesn't
matter where you're at.

1709
01:50:05,760 --> 01:50:09,680
You know, if, if you're, if this
subject matter is touching you

1710
01:50:09,680 --> 01:50:13,880
or has touched you in your life,
one, it's because you've read

1711
01:50:13,880 --> 01:50:15,760
the Book of Mormon.
All right, So we're talking to

1712
01:50:15,760 --> 01:50:20,320
at least a common audience from
the church to to all of its, you

1713
01:50:20,320 --> 01:50:23,600
know, branches, for lack of a
better word.

1714
01:50:24,200 --> 01:50:28,880
OK.
And let's, let's honestly seek,

1715
01:50:29,880 --> 01:50:34,440
you know, if we do this and we
should, let's, let's seek to

1716
01:50:34,680 --> 01:50:39,640
understand, to, to learn from
each other, to consider and, but

1717
01:50:39,640 --> 01:50:42,560
most of all to pray.
And the Lord may send us on

1718
01:50:42,560 --> 01:50:45,280
different places.
You know, Ammon went somewhere

1719
01:50:45,280 --> 01:50:48,440
and Aaron went somewhere.
They split up on their mission

1720
01:50:48,440 --> 01:50:50,400
as soon as they got out there.
They didn't just all hang

1721
01:50:50,400 --> 01:50:53,640
together for safety.
They really put themselves in

1722
01:50:53,640 --> 01:50:56,400
precarious circumstances and
ended up spending a few days

1723
01:50:56,400 --> 01:50:58,840
jail and this and that and the
other and about getting killed.

1724
01:50:59,520 --> 01:51:04,160
But in the end, it was a
miraculous, miraculous and

1725
01:51:04,160 --> 01:51:11,120
wonderful thing.
So may, May God guide us each in

1726
01:51:11,120 --> 01:51:14,800
our own right, each each of us
from that that may have felt,

1727
01:51:14,880 --> 01:51:17,600
you know, if you're still
listening to this after two

1728
01:51:17,600 --> 01:51:22,600
hours, you know, then then
something has touched you at

1729
01:51:22,600 --> 01:51:25,600
some point in your life
concerning.

1730
01:51:25,600 --> 01:51:28,920
I, I pray that the Lord's Spirit
will reach down and, and touch

1731
01:51:28,920 --> 01:51:35,080
as many people who are willing
to move forward and be a part of

1732
01:51:35,080 --> 01:51:42,440
something that that that would
be so amazing and so beautiful

1733
01:51:42,480 --> 01:51:49,360
and save us, save us all
temporarily and spiritually with

1734
01:51:49,360 --> 01:51:56,280
our brother.
We've lost your audio there,

1735
01:51:56,280 --> 01:52:00,640
Sir.
Well, that's 'cause I muted I.

1736
01:52:00,640 --> 01:52:03,400
I appreciate you guys coming on.
I really do.

1737
01:52:03,400 --> 01:52:05,680
I feel like that's a good spot
to wrap this up.

1738
01:52:07,520 --> 01:52:09,360
Jeff, is there anything else you
wanted to add?

1739
01:52:12,680 --> 01:52:13,920
Not if you're going to wrap it
up.

1740
01:52:14,960 --> 01:52:16,840
Well, if you want to add
something dude, I got plenty of

1741
01:52:16,840 --> 01:52:18,320
time.
This thing will go.

1742
01:52:21,800 --> 01:52:27,920
Oh yes.
You know, I don't know, I, we,

1743
01:52:27,920 --> 01:52:33,800
we could go on for, for a long
time, you know, and, and I, I

1744
01:52:33,800 --> 01:52:35,960
think we'd just be belaboring
the point.

1745
01:52:36,040 --> 01:52:40,160
I think we need to, to leave it
at the realm of, you know,

1746
01:52:40,440 --> 01:52:46,600
prayer and, and pondering and
solemn thoughts and really

1747
01:52:46,600 --> 01:52:51,280
considering as individuals and,
and, and this will reach, you

1748
01:52:51,280 --> 01:52:56,480
know, reach people because it's,
you know, this was a command

1749
01:52:56,480 --> 01:53:00,640
from the Savior and he was
commanded by the law to tell us

1750
01:53:00,640 --> 01:53:02,320
this.
So it means something.

1751
01:53:02,320 --> 01:53:05,280
It's not just likening unto us.
It was unto us.

1752
01:53:06,360 --> 01:53:11,560
And if, if you feel that, and
even if you don't know what to

1753
01:53:11,560 --> 01:53:13,840
do, 'cause I still don't know
what to do in a lot of areas.

1754
01:53:15,600 --> 01:53:19,240
Let's figure out how to be
friends and brethren and

1755
01:53:19,240 --> 01:53:24,800
sisters, and let's move forward
and find a way to define the

1756
01:53:24,800 --> 01:53:29,480
fullness in our own hearts.
And then to share it with all

1757
01:53:29,480 --> 01:53:32,760
the vigor that we felt when we
were on our missions in the

1758
01:53:32,760 --> 01:53:35,040
church 'cause I loved that
period of time.

1759
01:53:35,920 --> 01:53:39,960
And let's just go do it.
Absolutely, Vanessa.

1760
01:53:39,960 --> 01:53:45,760
Anything else you want to add?
Not particularly.

1761
01:53:47,320 --> 01:53:52,280
I, I know it's an interesting
thing because as a mother in the

1762
01:53:52,280 --> 01:53:55,560
home, I feel my role is a little
different.

1763
01:53:55,560 --> 01:54:00,960
You know, I, I have Mary spirit,
but I'm sure most women would

1764
01:54:00,960 --> 01:54:04,600
feel similarly, that it doesn't
manifest the same way as it does

1765
01:54:04,600 --> 01:54:09,520
in the hearts of most men.
But we still have the way that

1766
01:54:09,520 --> 01:54:12,880
we minister to those around us
and the way that we, we share

1767
01:54:12,880 --> 01:54:18,520
the gospel with the remnant.
And, and I think we need to take

1768
01:54:18,520 --> 01:54:23,000
that role seriously, whether
we're going out to a reservation

1769
01:54:23,680 --> 01:54:25,840
or we're just interacting.
Interacting.

1770
01:54:25,840 --> 01:54:29,760
Excuse me, with the community
around us and with our own

1771
01:54:29,760 --> 01:54:35,040
families, I think mothers in
general, our, our, our mission

1772
01:54:35,040 --> 01:54:38,520
is primarily home first, then
outward.

1773
01:54:38,720 --> 01:54:46,240
And so as a woman and as a
mother, it's, I think my focus

1774
01:54:46,240 --> 01:54:51,680
is more with my children and
within my home because where

1775
01:54:51,680 --> 01:54:54,640
does the fullness manifest
manifests inside the home, in

1776
01:54:54,640 --> 01:54:57,880
our family.
And that we have to continually

1777
01:54:58,800 --> 01:55:03,800
seek for improvement, for
repentance, for guidance so that

1778
01:55:03,800 --> 01:55:08,840
we can give stability to our
husbands, to our children, to

1779
01:55:09,040 --> 01:55:13,600
our sister wives.
And so I think it's wonderful.

1780
01:55:13,600 --> 01:55:17,840
I think it's something I fully
support, recognizing that the

1781
01:55:17,840 --> 01:55:20,920
way it's going to probably play
out in my life is going to look

1782
01:55:20,920 --> 01:55:26,320
differently because of that.
But that is my role and that is

1783
01:55:26,320 --> 01:55:29,960
part of this whole thing.
So that's just the last thought

1784
01:55:29,960 --> 01:55:32,400
I had to share.
Awesome Charisse.

1785
01:55:34,680 --> 01:55:37,200
I think the thought that's kept
coming back to me throughout

1786
01:55:37,200 --> 01:55:42,280
this whole discussion is just
how tempting it is to turn over

1787
01:55:42,280 --> 01:55:45,080
this opportunity to someone who
seems more qualified.

1788
01:55:45,640 --> 01:55:52,160
And I feel that that we all have
a role to play.

1789
01:55:53,640 --> 01:55:57,280
And I think that Vanessa was
very accurate pointing out that

1790
01:55:57,960 --> 01:55:59,840
he was a mother.
Our biggest influence is in

1791
01:55:59,840 --> 01:56:05,360
home.
And, you know, trying to try and

1792
01:56:05,360 --> 01:56:08,280
teach my children the fullness
and prepare my boys, my sons to

1793
01:56:08,280 --> 01:56:11,760
go out and serve missions and be
a part of this.

1794
01:56:11,800 --> 01:56:14,280
It's it's very important.
There's something everybody can

1795
01:56:14,280 --> 01:56:16,360
do.
And, you know, the fullness is

1796
01:56:16,360 --> 01:56:20,080
all-encompassing.
And if you've got any of it,

1797
01:56:20,080 --> 01:56:22,080
you've got something to give,
you've got something to

1798
01:56:22,080 --> 01:56:26,120
contribute.
Absolutely, and and I don't want

1799
01:56:26,680 --> 01:56:32,080
the sisters to feel like like,
you know, just because your role

1800
01:56:32,080 --> 01:56:35,360
is primarily in the home, you
can't have influence.

1801
01:56:35,360 --> 01:56:41,280
Still, I know my wives and, and
oh, I'm, I'm such a blessed man

1802
01:56:41,280 --> 01:56:48,440
because like, this was my crazy
calling that I got that I did

1803
01:56:48,440 --> 01:56:50,440
right.
And somehow they got roped up

1804
01:56:50,440 --> 01:56:53,520
into it.
So a lot of times when, when I

1805
01:56:53,520 --> 01:56:56,400
get people who call me and it's
like, Hey, man, I, I think I

1806
01:56:56,400 --> 01:56:58,800
might be leaning in this
direction, meaning

1807
01:56:58,800 --> 01:57:03,680
fundamentalism a lot of times,
you know, the, you know, the

1808
01:57:03,680 --> 01:57:06,440
wives of those guys would be,
you know, who are feeling the

1809
01:57:06,440 --> 01:57:09,120
same thing as like I, I wish I
could hear her from a sister's

1810
01:57:09,120 --> 01:57:11,960
perspective.
So I've set up zoom calls,

1811
01:57:12,000 --> 01:57:13,520
right?
I've set up phone calls where

1812
01:57:13,520 --> 01:57:18,240
they can just talk to the girls
and, and be like, you know, get,

1813
01:57:18,400 --> 01:57:21,880
get their input on things and,
and whatnot, which is cool

1814
01:57:21,880 --> 01:57:24,640
because that then frees me up to
like, I don't know, watch

1815
01:57:24,640 --> 01:57:27,000
football and stuff, which I'm
down for always.

1816
01:57:27,000 --> 01:57:30,320
But I mean it, it's great when,
when, when they get involved,

1817
01:57:30,320 --> 01:57:33,000
when the sisters are involved,
things, things happen.

1818
01:57:33,720 --> 01:57:37,880
So, so even with that, with your
with your positions primarily

1819
01:57:37,880 --> 01:57:40,920
being in the home and raising
that next generation, there's

1820
01:57:40,920 --> 01:57:45,800
still ways we are blessed beyond
measure that we have those those

1821
01:57:45,800 --> 01:57:48,680
abilities now.
Mason, anything you want.

1822
01:57:48,960 --> 01:57:53,280
Oh, sorry, go ahead.
No, I was just gonna add

1823
01:57:53,280 --> 01:57:57,600
additionally that, you know, the
sisters being involved and it's,

1824
01:57:57,600 --> 01:58:03,080
it's no, it's no less
significant of a mission.

1825
01:58:03,120 --> 01:58:07,920
Our role in sustaining the home
and teaching our children is of

1826
01:58:07,920 --> 01:58:09,800
the utmost importance.
Absolutely.

1827
01:58:10,120 --> 01:58:16,440
It's not secondary 2 or or less
than anything else.

1828
01:58:16,440 --> 01:58:19,880
It's part of the whole picture
and it's it's the most sacred

1829
01:58:19,960 --> 01:58:23,720
thing that we could possibly do.
So it's an honor to to play that

1830
01:58:23,720 --> 01:58:27,120
role and it's, it's nothing.
It's.

1831
01:58:28,200 --> 01:58:29,760
Not less.
Yep.

1832
01:58:29,960 --> 01:58:34,080
And as as a matter of fact, you
know, the reality is that we

1833
01:58:34,080 --> 01:58:39,880
perpetuate elements of the
gospel by how we live.

1834
01:58:40,680 --> 01:58:47,280
People are willing listen or
willing to talk to if they see

1835
01:58:47,280 --> 01:58:49,800
that one.
You actually believe because you

1836
01:58:49,800 --> 01:58:54,560
live the way that you live.
And, and if your home is a place

1837
01:58:54,560 --> 01:58:57,480
where the Spirit of God can
dwell and people feel it when

1838
01:58:57,480 --> 01:59:00,560
they come to visit, that's the
best possible thing that you

1839
01:59:00,560 --> 01:59:03,960
could ever do is make friends
with somebody and invite them to

1840
01:59:03,960 --> 01:59:06,040
your house well.
And that that is something that

1841
01:59:06,040 --> 01:59:12,880
we have seen in our lives is
that I don't set out to preach a

1842
01:59:12,880 --> 01:59:16,600
specific message, but when
people come into my home or I go

1843
01:59:16,600 --> 01:59:19,920
into somebody else's, by the
way, I conduct myself in the

1844
01:59:19,920 --> 01:59:24,040
Spirit of God that's with me or
the Spirit that's in our home,

1845
01:59:24,080 --> 01:59:26,520
they get touched.
And I, and so I guess I feel

1846
01:59:26,520 --> 01:59:29,880
that sense of mission when I
have people in my home because I

1847
01:59:29,880 --> 01:59:31,680
can see the Spirit touch their
heart.

1848
01:59:31,880 --> 01:59:34,600
I can see their mind completely
change.

1849
01:59:35,000 --> 01:59:38,880
And it's transformative to
behold and and so rewarding.

1850
01:59:39,240 --> 01:59:41,400
So yeah, it is.
It's all part of the same

1851
01:59:41,400 --> 01:59:45,960
process of sharing the gospel.
100 if the missionaries family

1852
01:59:45,960 --> 01:59:48,080
with them when they were out in
the mission field, you know, but

1853
01:59:48,080 --> 01:59:50,440
a bunch of 19 year old kids
running around doing stupid

1854
01:59:50,440 --> 01:59:54,400
things is the worst possible way
to perpetuate the gospel.

1855
01:59:54,480 --> 01:59:58,880
I'm sorry.
And when you go home and get

1856
01:59:58,880 --> 02:00:01,400
married and you're off your
mission and you still keep doing

1857
02:00:01,400 --> 02:00:04,800
missionary work, you see that
because you're 100 times more

1858
02:00:04,800 --> 02:00:10,120
effective, you know, if you.
Maintain that missionary spirit

1859
02:00:10,800 --> 02:00:14,960
and, you know, there's a kind of
a new breed of fundamentalist

1860
02:00:15,520 --> 02:00:21,480
guys who, you know, they went on
missions for the church and then

1861
02:00:21,480 --> 02:00:25,240
kept studying.
And, and that's kind of a, a

1862
02:00:25,240 --> 02:00:29,160
weird thing in fundamentalism is
because we bring, you can't get

1863
02:00:29,160 --> 02:00:31,600
rid of the missionary spirit.
It's like you can't get rid of

1864
02:00:31,600 --> 02:00:34,440
your love for, you know,
wrestling or football.

1865
02:00:34,760 --> 02:00:38,880
It's part of your life because
it's, it's helped shape who you

1866
02:00:38,880 --> 02:00:41,040
are.
And when you're, when you're a

1867
02:00:41,040 --> 02:00:43,120
missionary in spirit, you never
lose that.

1868
02:00:44,000 --> 02:00:47,840
And even though you, you know,
when I came into fundamentalism,

1869
02:00:48,520 --> 02:00:50,720
you know, I was just shocked
that people weren't running

1870
02:00:50,720 --> 02:00:53,480
around, jumping up and down
trying to tell people about it.

1871
02:00:53,480 --> 02:00:56,280
It was a kind of a, well, you
better be quiet or you, you

1872
02:00:56,280 --> 02:00:58,120
know, your family's gonna be
persecuted.

1873
02:00:58,840 --> 02:01:01,880
And of course, you know,
eventually we do ATV show and

1874
02:01:01,880 --> 02:01:05,480
the whole 9 yards 'cause you
can't get rid of it.

1875
02:01:05,880 --> 02:01:08,720
You say, oh, there's a chance
for me to stand on a soapbox,

1876
02:01:08,720 --> 02:01:11,520
let's do this 'cause I believe
it, you know?

1877
02:01:12,040 --> 02:01:15,400
Absolutely so.
And you, that's exactly what

1878
02:01:15,520 --> 02:01:17,480
you're doing now.
You know, you have the

1879
02:01:17,480 --> 02:01:19,840
missionary spirit.
So calling all missionary

1880
02:01:19,840 --> 02:01:23,400
spirited people.
Awesome, Mason, anything you

1881
02:01:23,400 --> 02:01:25,320
want to add before we wrap up
here?

1882
02:01:28,160 --> 02:01:31,600
So I have been looking over
scripture since we started

1883
02:01:31,600 --> 02:01:35,040
talking about missionary work
and the lack, lack of

1884
02:01:35,040 --> 02:01:39,640
organization that that we have.
This is section four of the

1885
02:01:39,640 --> 02:01:44,880
Doctrine Covenants.
It was given in 1829.

1886
02:01:45,000 --> 02:01:47,640
So this was before the
priesthood was restored.

1887
02:01:47,960 --> 02:01:51,160
This was before the church was
established and it touches on

1888
02:01:51,160 --> 02:01:52,680
the principle of missionary
work.

1889
02:01:53,360 --> 02:01:56,600
One of the things that it says
that was pretty impactful to me

1890
02:01:56,600 --> 02:02:01,280
before I decided to go serve a
mission for the LDS churches.

1891
02:02:01,280 --> 02:02:05,480
Verse three, it says, therefore,
if you have desires to serve

1892
02:02:05,480 --> 02:02:07,480
God, you're called to do the
work.

1893
02:02:08,160 --> 02:02:11,080
You know, there's there's no pre
qualifier to that.

1894
02:02:11,080 --> 02:02:16,360
It's just if you are an
individual who wants to do the

1895
02:02:16,360 --> 02:02:19,480
will of God and you want to
bring people closer to him and,

1896
02:02:19,480 --> 02:02:25,720
and you want to help people
feel, feel good about themselves

1897
02:02:25,720 --> 02:02:30,680
and, and see, see the truth that
there is to life, then you're

1898
02:02:30,680 --> 02:02:32,600
called to do that.
That's it.

1899
02:02:32,880 --> 02:02:36,200
And I, I feel it's very much in
the same, the, the same

1900
02:02:36,200 --> 02:02:38,720
situation here.
You know, if, if we have the

1901
02:02:38,720 --> 02:02:42,320
desire to go forward, then
that's, that's, that's Our

1902
02:02:42,320 --> 02:02:46,240
Calling.
Absolutely good stuff Mason.

1903
02:02:47,240 --> 02:02:51,400
Well, Jeff, Vanessa, Cherise,
again, thanks for coming on.

1904
02:02:51,400 --> 02:02:54,040
I, I really enjoyed having you
here and I, I tell this to

1905
02:02:54,040 --> 02:02:57,120
everybody and I really mean it.
You've been on once.

1906
02:02:57,120 --> 02:03:00,080
You got a standing invitation to
come back on anytime you want.

1907
02:03:00,360 --> 02:03:05,480
So you know, Jeff, as as things
come up and you feel like you

1908
02:03:05,480 --> 02:03:07,320
want to share them, let me know
dude.

1909
02:03:07,320 --> 02:03:11,360
We'll we'll get you back on.
Uber.

1910
02:03:11,520 --> 02:03:14,760
Thanks, Dave.
All right, all right, everybody,

1911
02:03:14,840 --> 02:03:47,080
bye.
You're listening to the Mormon

1912
02:03:47,080 --> 02:03:48,440
Renegade podcast.