Episode #127: The Mulek Connection To Carthage & Evidence For Diffusion & Migration In America W/John Lefgren, Mike & Betty LaFontaine, Blaise Colasante, & Eryj Ben Sassi

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Archaeology is the study of
human history and prehistory.

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A couple of principles with an
archaeology that should really

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interest us as Mormons are
migrations, which are the study

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of historical human migrations
and diffusion, the study of how

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human ideas and practices are
transmitted from 1 distinct

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group of people to another.
Now, if the Book of Mormon is

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true, we should expect to see at
least echoes of migration and

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diffusion in the Americas.
Yeah.

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What if I told you that there
seems to be some evidence of

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migration diffusion between
ancient America and Carthage,

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which which is also known as
modern day Tunisia?

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Are you interested yet?
Well, what if I also told you

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that that same evidence might
also have a connection to the

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story of Mulick in the Book of
Mormon?

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I bet if you're anything like
me, you're very interested.

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Now there are a group of people
from very different walks of

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life who've come together to
study this evidence.

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They are John Lofgren, Mike and
Betty Lafontaine, Blaise

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Colisante, and all the way from
Tunisia, Arish Ben Sasse.

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And they all join me today on
the podcast to discuss their

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findings that, if correct, could
not only change the historical

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narrative of the United States,
but could also lend evidence to

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the historicity of the Book of
Mormon.

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The.
You're listening to the Mormon

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Renegade podcast.
All right folks, I got a treat

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for you today.
So normally all of my podcasts

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are pretty much within the
United States.

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I have had someone on from the
UK before, but today we're going

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to be talking about some cool
stuff, some stuff that happened

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in antiquity that concerns the
United States.

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And to do that I have on several
guests.

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Probably the the most important
for this conversation is Arish.

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And she's coming to us live from
the old city of Carthage.

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And she's gonna give us a little
bit of tour and then we're gonna

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talk about some interesting
connections and how this all

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kind of connects up with the
United States and really starts

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to look at diffusion way earlier
on than than perhaps what a lot

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of the established narrative has
been for so long.

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So Arish, first, thank you for
being here.

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I really appreciate it.
Thank you, Dave.

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Hello, Dave.
Thank you for having me.

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I'm very happy to be with you
today.

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Thank you.
And guess, guess what?

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I am actually in the National
Museum of Carthage.

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Really.
See.

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Yeah, we read, we read about
these things and, you know, in,

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in history and antiquity, but we
never really get to, to

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experience.
And, and so I'm super, I'm

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excited for myself.
I mean, the audience gets to

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come along, but I'm super
excited.

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So this, this is something that
I'm gonna gonna remember for a

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while now.
Joining Arish, we have John

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Lufkin.
He is a gentleman who has done

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plenty of work about some, some
Phoenicians that may have came

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over here, which come from
Carthage.

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And then Blaze and his lovely
wife are here as well.

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And so we just look forward to
doing this.

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And I know we're kind of up
against some time here.

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So Arish, I'm gonna turn it over
to you to go ahead and and start

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the the the presentation here.
OK.

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Thank you, Dave.
So I am Erich Bensisi, I'm from

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Carthage, from Tunisia in North
Africa.

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And I have been President and
founder of the our association.

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The association didn't of
Carthage since 2014, so 10 years

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from now.
And the aim objective of our

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organization is to highlight our
history and our culture and our

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archaeological sites.
And we want young people to know

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more about history and all of
people around the world to know

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more about the history of
character especially and

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Tunisia.
So this is how I I'm very glad

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to to be partner with the
Heartland Research, which is

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chaired by Mr. John Laffegren,
who I met twice this year in

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America, in January and in
February.

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So as a guy who who, you know,
grew up in the United States, we

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hear a little bit about
Carthage, right?

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We don't get even the full
picture.

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If you're lucky, as you're going
through high school, you might

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encounter Hannibal and his March
across the Alps.

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You might hear about some of the
the Punic wars that that go on,

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but really you don't we don't
get the the breadth of history

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of just what Carthage is before
we go into the connections with

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America and maybe some things
that happened.

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Can you give us just a real
quick synopsis Arish of of what

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Carthage was in its IT kind of
golden period?

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So Carthage, it has a a very big
history.

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So we know that it was founded
on 814 BC by Queen Dido who came

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from Tyre.
But a lot of historian and

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archaeological, scientific and
professionals said that it

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Carsh's was older than from 800
BC.

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But as you know Carthage was
destroyed in the 2nd century BC

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by Roman.
That's why proof and evidence

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was also destroyed.
For example from only we the

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Rome still have a book the book
of Magon, which is a book of

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88028 books about agronomy.
This is the only thing that was

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preserved by Roman, but all of
the other was destroyed.

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And this is a very horrific
things for us.

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But what we have now in Carthage
is right from that moment and

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some city and evidence before.
For example, here we have the

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city of Hannibal, what we call
now actually the city of

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Hannibal and this is the hill of
Carthage.

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Now we are in on the heel of
Carthage and the heel of

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Carthage called Birsa and Birsa
in Greek is the skin of oak, an

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oak, you know, yes, This is why
we called Birsa.

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And so in 814 BC Queen died of
Lee Fleet tire because there's

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some problem, as you know, with
his brother Mario and want to

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take the the throne.
So she came to Carthage because

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it was not Carthage at that
time.

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It had another name.
A lot of historians are still

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looking for what Carthage what
what was the name of Carthage

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before it was called Carthage?
Because Carthage is Carthage,

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that means the new city.
So maybe it's the new city

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because of we have another
Phoenician city who was found in

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3/3 seconds, so 300 years before
the foundation of Carthage.

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Maybe This is why we call the
new city or maybe the new city

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because we talk about tire.
So we have two things here.

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And so Carthage is very rich,
have very rich history.

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It was an empire, not only a
city.

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Actually we have a city of
Carthage, but the empire of

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Carthage was extended from north
of Libya and to the north of

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Morocco, so all the north of
Africa.

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This is the empire of Carthage
who rolled the sea, the

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Mediterranean Sea.
Right.

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And if I'm not mistaken, during
it's it it's peak time, it was

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kind of the naval power there in
North Africa, correct And and

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even stretching down into into
the Mediterranean, right.

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Its Navy was pretty was pretty
renowned for for their their

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strength.
Is that correct, Dorish?

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Can you repeat please?
No, you're good.

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During during Carthage's heyday,
the the the the Carthage, the

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Carthage had the most powerful
Navy.

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Is that correct?
That's true, Yes, that's true.

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And this is one of the the the
problem who we have this problem

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with Roman.
So Carthage and Roman have this

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like jealous.
See like how we said.

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Concurrence.
Concurrence between the Roman,

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yes, the Roman and Greeks also
who have a big, big fleet of

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ships and we we are near
actually I will show you after

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the Punic port which we can see
from from from from here.

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So the tunic port is like a very
important archaeological sites

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because it was it was founded
around 3 or 400 BC and after

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after the Roman invasion, they
they built it second time after

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146 BC.
Gotcha.

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Gotcha.
OK, so Arish.

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Can you see the Mediterranean
Sea?

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Where yes, you can see that,
yes, I will show it to you

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because now it's a little bit
windy and it's not clear time,

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but I will show you here.
You see the sea.

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Where did Phillip Bill bring his
ship?

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The Phoenicia.
So this, yes.

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So it's not from this part we
cannot see where the ship stay

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in Carthage here from here, yes.
No problem Maurice.

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Real quick, let's, let's now
that we got some background on,

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on who Carthage is, right?
Major superpower of its day.

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It's got a tremendous Navy.
It's not really getting along

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with some of its neighbors,
right?

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And Rome was pretty brutal in
those days.

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And, and so now let let's talk
about maybe some of the

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connections between what, what
you're finding that connects

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Carthage to America.
I, I think this is really the

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fascinating part here.
What, what is it?

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What are those connections,
Arish?

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Can you repeat hello?
Yeah, No.

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Can you hear me?
Yes, I hear you.

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Can you repeat?
Yep, you bet.

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Can you, Can you talk to us now
a little bit, now that we have a

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history of Carthage a little bit
and who they were?

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Could you tell us the
connections that we're finding

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now to America and Carthage?
Yes, I, I, I just wanted to add

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that the Carthaginian people is
a mixture of the Phoenician who

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came from Lebanon with, from
Tyre with the Didon Princess or

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Queen Dido and the people of
this land.

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So they were in the Median
jettools and Libik who are like

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the indigenous and the Ottokton
of this land.

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And this is how we have the
Carthaginian.

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And so as you know, they are big
navigators.

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The Carthaginian were the big
navigator and very famous.

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So we have for example 2 famous
Admiral, one of them went to

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Cornwall and the second who is
Hannon, went to Cameron and

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discovered Cameron and also
navigate through the Atlantic.

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So, So in 2019 we met Captain
Philip Dean who came to Carthage

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to start his expedition and his
adventure from Carthage to

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America across in the Atlantic
to prove that the Phoenician and

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Cathedral union were the first
to discover the American

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continent.
So we believe on that because

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even we don't have proof and
evidence of of that.

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But historians always said that
we know that Carthaginian and

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Phoenician went to America and
discovered America.

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But as I told you earlier, that
a lot of evidence was being

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destroyed.
So in 2019 when Captain Philip

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Beale came to Tunisia, when I
met him and all of our members

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met the crew.
So we followed the expedition

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until it arrives.
She arrives to Florida and we

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were very happy to to know that
the the ship was actually

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actually in the hand of in good
hands in the Heartland research

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in Iowa to be to be the
Phoenicianship Museum.

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And this is how we have this
partnership with the the

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Heartland research.
So together we will try to to

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highlight our history and to
bring the Old World to the New

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York World.
And as I when I met Betty

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Lafontaine is a culture
responsible of the Heartland

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Research and the Phoenicianship
Museum.

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I I found something very special
with her that we have a lot of

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similarities between me and her
in some traditions and culture.

224
00:17:28,079 --> 00:17:34,680
And from that moment, we think
that we have our people and the

225
00:17:34,680 --> 00:17:37,720
Native American people have a
lot of similarities.

226
00:17:38,160 --> 00:17:45,040
So we started a new project to
to make this comparative

227
00:17:45,040 --> 00:17:50,320
anthropological study between
North African women, especially

228
00:17:50,320 --> 00:17:58,040
Tunisian and Carthaginian Gerber
woman and the American Native

229
00:17:58,040 --> 00:18:03,080
woman.
We make this entrepreneur.

230
00:18:03,120 --> 00:18:07,080
Yeah.
So I think I I hope that I am

231
00:18:07,640 --> 00:18:08,120
here.
Yeah.

232
00:18:08,200 --> 00:18:10,320
Yes, Dave, what?
What kind of?

233
00:18:10,320 --> 00:18:13,320
Similarities were you finding, I
mean, you, it sounds like you,

234
00:18:13,400 --> 00:18:16,640
you between you and Missus
Lafontaine, you, you guys were

235
00:18:16,640 --> 00:18:19,440
discovering and, and I believe
she's on here and, and we'll

236
00:18:19,440 --> 00:18:22,840
talk to her in a minute as well.
What, what kind of similarities

237
00:18:22,840 --> 00:18:25,720
were you finding between the two
cultures that that was so

238
00:18:25,720 --> 00:18:31,960
compelling?
First, first, there's very

239
00:18:32,720 --> 00:18:35,120
powerful things, which is the
you, you.

240
00:18:35,640 --> 00:18:39,280
I think that you saw some video,
the you, you.

241
00:18:39,640 --> 00:18:47,440
This is a sound we make when
only women made it in all the

242
00:18:47,440 --> 00:18:50,880
shore of the the Mediterranean,
of the South of the

243
00:18:50,880 --> 00:18:55,560
Mediterranean, Mediterranean.
So it's like a sound like to

244
00:18:55,760 --> 00:18:59,960
make to, to, to say that we are
happy.

245
00:19:00,320 --> 00:19:05,720
We do it in marriage, in new
wedding, in something new is

246
00:19:05,920 --> 00:19:10,760
something someone who came from
a long voyage.

247
00:19:10,920 --> 00:19:17,080
So when we are happy, we do it
and also Native American people

248
00:19:17,520 --> 00:19:23,240
do it.
So we cannot find this this

249
00:19:23,240 --> 00:19:29,240
thing all over the world.
Only in North Africa and African

250
00:19:29,240 --> 00:19:33,600
people we have a special bread
who you cannot found it

251
00:19:33,800 --> 00:19:37,240
anywhere.
Only in Tunisia we call the

252
00:19:37,320 --> 00:19:40,920
Tierra.
I don't know the noun in in

253
00:19:40,960 --> 00:19:45,840
America, but it's a special in
the Nauvoo community.

254
00:19:46,320 --> 00:19:51,320
So we have a special type of
thing singing.

255
00:19:51,600 --> 00:19:59,480
So of songs, it's very, it's
like Berber, only Berber people

256
00:19:59,520 --> 00:20:05,520
sing that songs and this style
and only we found a similarity

257
00:20:06,280 --> 00:20:15,760
in Native American people.
So also I found a book, I think

258
00:20:15,760 --> 00:20:23,160
it's 1940 something, 47 maybe.
Who was written by a specialist

259
00:20:24,120 --> 00:20:33,280
who found like some noun like
similarities between familial

260
00:20:33,480 --> 00:20:41,880
name in North Africa and the
same in in Native American

261
00:20:41,880 --> 00:20:47,240
people.
So This is why we yes, yes, This

262
00:20:47,240 --> 00:20:52,440
is why we want to to know more
about our relation, because we

263
00:20:52,440 --> 00:20:57,760
believe also that Carthaginian
discover America.

264
00:20:57,960 --> 00:21:03,840
So as the Phoenicia shift prove
it also that the Carthaginian

265
00:21:03,840 --> 00:21:09,040
could make it make made it.
So maybe there's some people who

266
00:21:09,040 --> 00:21:12,840
stayed there from that time.
This is why they bring with them

267
00:21:12,960 --> 00:21:16,080
their culture and their
tradition, right?

268
00:21:16,680 --> 00:21:19,040
Can you hear me?
I can Betty.

269
00:21:20,000 --> 00:21:23,400
So Arish was just telling us
about some of the the

270
00:21:23,520 --> 00:21:26,560
similarities that that you guys
find between cultures.

271
00:21:26,560 --> 00:21:30,120
Now you're you're from the from
the, the Navajo Nation.

272
00:21:30,120 --> 00:21:31,920
Is that correct?
Missus Lafontaine.

273
00:21:32,800 --> 00:21:36,040
OK.
And, and, and what, what, what

274
00:21:36,040 --> 00:21:37,680
kind of similarities were you
seeing?

275
00:21:37,680 --> 00:21:41,440
Were you seeing other
similarities that that convinced

276
00:21:41,440 --> 00:21:43,720
you that maybe there was a
connection here, but from

277
00:21:43,720 --> 00:21:49,680
ancient Carthage to the the
indigenous populations in in

278
00:21:49,800 --> 00:21:53,760
Native America?
So for example, they the

279
00:21:54,080 --> 00:21:59,880
similarities that we can found
also is the tattoo not in Navu

280
00:21:59,880 --> 00:22:06,120
community, but there's a Native
American people who make some

281
00:22:06,120 --> 00:22:11,040
special tattoo on the face.
And we have this also Gerber

282
00:22:11,040 --> 00:22:17,920
people and especially a woman
who make some ancestral tattoo

283
00:22:17,920 --> 00:22:22,520
until now.
So we have a lot to to to to

284
00:22:22,520 --> 00:22:25,440
make a lot deep research about
this.

285
00:22:26,120 --> 00:22:27,920
Gotcha.
Wow.

286
00:22:27,920 --> 00:22:32,760
So even even certain tribal
tattoos, if you will seem to

287
00:22:32,760 --> 00:22:37,920
correspond from Carthage to to
to America.

288
00:22:37,960 --> 00:22:40,560
That's that's incredible.
Betty, How, how you doing?

289
00:22:40,560 --> 00:22:42,440
Yeah.
Nice to meet you.

290
00:22:42,720 --> 00:22:47,440
So let me talk a little bit
about the Navajo people and what

291
00:22:47,560 --> 00:22:50,120
the connection that Yurish and I
made.

292
00:22:50,760 --> 00:22:56,720
The first thing that I remember
in meeting the Phoenicia ship in

293
00:22:56,720 --> 00:23:01,360
Florida, when it came in, I
heard a very familiar sound on

294
00:23:01,360 --> 00:23:03,920
which we call the Lulu.
And I don't know if you're

295
00:23:03,920 --> 00:23:06,040
familiar with that sound that
the natives make.

296
00:23:06,880 --> 00:23:10,600
And that's the same sound that I
heard that somebody made on the

297
00:23:10,600 --> 00:23:16,440
ship when it came into Florida.
And that was really got my

298
00:23:16,440 --> 00:23:22,120
attention throughout the
reception of the ship that day.

299
00:23:22,120 --> 00:23:31,200
In 2019, I met Shymi, who is a
they, I guess I believe they're

300
00:23:31,560 --> 00:23:33,320
related, closely related to the
Carthage.

301
00:23:33,320 --> 00:23:37,040
That sound that we made were
very familiar and instantly

302
00:23:37,160 --> 00:23:39,920
connected with her.
And same with you.

303
00:23:39,920 --> 00:23:42,360
Reach, when I met her made that
sound.

304
00:23:42,560 --> 00:23:44,560
We made that connection.
It was really cool.

305
00:23:45,920 --> 00:23:49,520
But but there's other things
We've discovered their way of

306
00:23:49,520 --> 00:23:52,600
weaving.
The women that weave the wave

307
00:23:52,640 --> 00:23:54,880
looms to weave.
The Napos are known for their

308
00:23:54,880 --> 00:24:00,240
weaving and the way that they do
their their weaving, the way

309
00:24:00,240 --> 00:24:06,640
they record their sheep wool,
the way they butcher a sheep and

310
00:24:06,640 --> 00:24:10,680
spin their wool weave, sit on
the loom, sit down on the floor

311
00:24:10,680 --> 00:24:13,400
in front of a loom.
There's no other culture that

312
00:24:13,400 --> 00:24:17,080
does that besides the Pueblo,
the Hopi and the Navajo.

313
00:24:17,880 --> 00:24:22,240
Wow, holy cow, those are those
are those are some really strong

314
00:24:22,240 --> 00:24:24,680
connections.
I mean, it's one thing.

315
00:24:24,680 --> 00:24:27,360
Very strong, yeah.
It's, it's one thing to have one

316
00:24:27,360 --> 00:24:29,200
or two, right?
You can be like, well, that's a

317
00:24:29,200 --> 00:24:33,720
coincidence, right?
It's another thing to looking at

318
00:24:33,960 --> 00:24:38,640
things like certain certain
ceremonial body art and and

319
00:24:38,640 --> 00:24:40,720
tattooing.
It's another thing to see basket

320
00:24:40,720 --> 00:24:42,520
weaving.
It's another thing to see the

321
00:24:42,520 --> 00:24:46,720
way that that meat is processed,
certain linguistics.

322
00:24:47,320 --> 00:24:51,960
It, it starts to become somewhat
overwhelming now, Arish, at what

323
00:24:51,960 --> 00:24:55,760
point have have we found any
physical evidence, you know,

324
00:24:55,880 --> 00:25:00,360
either a record of some sort in,
in, you know, in old Carthage

325
00:25:00,560 --> 00:25:04,280
saying, hey, we made this voyage
to America, or do we have

326
00:25:04,280 --> 00:25:08,280
something on the, the American
continent that says, hey, the,

327
00:25:08,600 --> 00:25:10,760
you know, the, the Carthaginians
were here.

328
00:25:11,080 --> 00:25:15,240
Do we have any sort of evidence
physically that would point to

329
00:25:15,560 --> 00:25:21,160
to contact that way?
Yes, yes, you hear me?

330
00:25:21,480 --> 00:25:26,960
Yep, I can hear you.
OK, so when Captain the bills

331
00:25:26,960 --> 00:25:32,680
start his expedition and
organize his expedition, he was

332
00:25:32,680 --> 00:25:38,640
based on the coin who who was
founded in America and this coin

333
00:25:38,640 --> 00:25:47,160
is came from from Carthage.
So, so this guy also show that

334
00:25:47,760 --> 00:25:54,000
show that the Carthaginian went
to to America.

335
00:25:54,520 --> 00:25:58,280
So I think there's a lot of
evidence in America and there's

336
00:25:58,280 --> 00:26:02,840
a lot of specialists who are
making this research to to prove

337
00:26:02,840 --> 00:26:07,400
that Carthaginian and the
Carthaginian were in America.

338
00:26:07,760 --> 00:26:12,520
There's a book I will I will
send you the image of this book

339
00:26:12,520 --> 00:26:19,120
who who show that we we found
mother goddess of Carthaginian

340
00:26:20,080 --> 00:26:26,400
and we we found it in America.
So it seems like if we made a

341
00:26:26,440 --> 00:26:31,080
lot of research in this area, we
will find a lot of evidence

342
00:26:32,200 --> 00:26:37,600
there.
So This is why we want to do

343
00:26:37,600 --> 00:26:43,000
this research because we want
more specialist.

344
00:26:43,200 --> 00:26:49,000
We want to bring with us more
professional in this area to to

345
00:26:49,000 --> 00:26:54,560
like to make a round table and
discuss because, you know, one

346
00:26:54,560 --> 00:26:58,080
hand we cannot slap with one
hand.

347
00:26:58,080 --> 00:27:02,520
So we need a lot of people
together hand in hand to

348
00:27:03,280 --> 00:27:10,120
everyone will give his opinion
and through his background, you

349
00:27:10,120 --> 00:27:18,440
know, as an archaeological and
anthropological people like

350
00:27:19,400 --> 00:27:24,720
social anyway.
So, you know, it's, this is how

351
00:27:24,720 --> 00:27:31,880
to bring a lot of people around
the same table to discuss the

352
00:27:31,880 --> 00:27:34,520
similarity.
Not the similarities, but this

353
00:27:34,520 --> 00:27:40,280
connection between North African
people, Carthaginians

354
00:27:40,280 --> 00:27:44,320
especially, and American and
Native American people.

355
00:27:44,640 --> 00:27:47,320
We can find a lot.
For example, I'm not Moroccan or

356
00:27:47,440 --> 00:27:53,240
Argentian, but there's also some
difference between Tunisian,

357
00:27:53,840 --> 00:27:59,360
Algerian and Moroccan.
But we can found also in America

358
00:27:59,360 --> 00:28:04,640
some Moroccan traditional
things, you know.

359
00:28:05,040 --> 00:28:09,640
So This is why we want to make
the study more large.

360
00:28:09,640 --> 00:28:13,600
You know, this is very
important, really important

361
00:28:13,600 --> 00:28:18,120
because we believe as
Association of Carthage or the

362
00:28:18,120 --> 00:28:22,840
Heartland research, we believe
that these two people are

363
00:28:22,840 --> 00:28:25,760
connected.
And I have the pleasure to

364
00:28:25,760 --> 00:28:31,280
discuss with some historian and
some specialist and they were

365
00:28:31,280 --> 00:28:37,160
very enthusiastic to about this,
this study and this project.

366
00:28:37,480 --> 00:28:42,520
It's an important project.
It's not easy and it's not a

367
00:28:42,560 --> 00:28:48,080
quick project, but it will take
a long time because this project

368
00:28:48,080 --> 00:28:55,920
is also gave us the opportunity
to to the Phoenicianship Museum

369
00:28:55,920 --> 00:28:59,520
to be more rich.
And we will have exhibition

370
00:28:59,520 --> 00:29:05,080
books, movies, documentaries
around this study and around the

371
00:29:05,440 --> 00:29:12,080
about this connection, this very
important connection as and also

372
00:29:12,080 --> 00:29:16,880
Betsy will tell you that when
she made these DNA tests, she

373
00:29:16,880 --> 00:29:23,320
found that she have some
percentage from from Egypt and

374
00:29:23,320 --> 00:29:29,040
like 1% of Native Americans.
So how it's scam.

375
00:29:29,040 --> 00:29:39,600
So, so also we need to do more
DNA tests of some people in

376
00:29:39,600 --> 00:29:43,920
Tunisia, North Africa, birber
people and Native American

377
00:29:43,920 --> 00:29:47,640
people and maybe make this
comparison.

378
00:29:48,040 --> 00:29:51,480
So you've already seen, you kind
of broke up there for just a

379
00:29:51,480 --> 00:29:56,080
second, you've already seen
doing some DNA sampling that

380
00:29:56,080 --> 00:30:00,200
there is some common DNA there
between the the Navajo people

381
00:30:00,200 --> 00:30:04,120
and and some folks in Tunisia.
We want to do this.

382
00:30:04,280 --> 00:30:08,160
We want to do this comparative,
we want to do this.

383
00:30:08,320 --> 00:30:12,880
But I have only two people,
Betty and my friend whose name

384
00:30:12,880 --> 00:30:17,200
Jacques Alfred.
He said to me that he have 1%

385
00:30:17,520 --> 00:30:20,600
from his DNA test of Native
American.

386
00:30:21,560 --> 00:30:23,960
Interesting.
Betty La Fontaine, you can ask

387
00:30:23,960 --> 00:30:29,320
her, she will confirm to you
that she have percentage from

388
00:30:29,480 --> 00:30:33,920
Egypt, so from the South Shore
of the Mediterranean.

389
00:30:35,400 --> 00:30:41,000
So there is something and yes.
Betty, go, go ahead.

390
00:30:41,000 --> 00:30:42,920
Did you want to speak to this a
little bit?

391
00:30:43,320 --> 00:30:46,400
Betty, I think you're muted.
Well, they get that figured out

392
00:30:46,400 --> 00:30:48,840
there on on their end.
Let's let's keep this rolling.

393
00:30:49,280 --> 00:30:53,280
How what's the reception to your
work been thus far, Arish with

394
00:30:53,280 --> 00:30:57,600
within the the the established,
you know, academic

395
00:30:57,880 --> 00:31:02,160
archaeological circles?
What in in, in those folks in

396
00:31:02,160 --> 00:31:04,160
Tunisia?
How are they taking this the

397
00:31:04,560 --> 00:31:08,120
your research here?
So we start.

398
00:31:09,120 --> 00:31:18,000
We just, Dave, it's we just
start, we, we still preparing

399
00:31:18,000 --> 00:31:22,760
the draft of this study.
You know, it's not even the

400
00:31:22,760 --> 00:31:25,000
draft.
It will take a lot of time.

401
00:31:25,000 --> 00:31:36,560
But as I talked to some people,
they seem very yeah, maybe we, I

402
00:31:36,560 --> 00:31:40,480
will give you more information
in one or two years about this.

403
00:31:40,480 --> 00:31:44,920
But actually it just started as
an idea.

404
00:31:47,120 --> 00:31:53,200
And we want, we want more.
But we have some specialists

405
00:31:53,200 --> 00:31:57,680
with us and we want to have
specialists from America also

406
00:31:57,680 --> 00:32:04,200
who who work on the Native
American people, you know, so.

407
00:32:05,640 --> 00:32:07,440
So it's.
This is what we will.

408
00:32:08,480 --> 00:32:09,640
Yeah.
So it's still early.

409
00:32:09,640 --> 00:32:12,000
We're we're, we haven't
published anything.

410
00:32:12,000 --> 00:32:14,360
Exactly nothing like.
That we're just early still.

411
00:32:15,520 --> 00:32:21,000
I before I want to show you, I
want to make for you a small

412
00:32:21,040 --> 00:32:26,880
tour.
Tour of the the place OK.

413
00:32:27,240 --> 00:32:28,840
So Rarish, where are you looking
at?

414
00:32:28,840 --> 00:32:31,240
Right there, right?
There can you see?

415
00:32:31,880 --> 00:32:36,120
Yep, I can.
So this is actual the actual

416
00:32:36,120 --> 00:32:41,680
Museum of Carthage.
Here you have the Church of

417
00:32:41,680 --> 00:32:48,400
Saint Louis, and this is all of
this is Tunis is the capital of

418
00:32:48,400 --> 00:32:50,160
Tunisia.
You can see it.

419
00:32:50,760 --> 00:32:54,560
Do you see it?
Yep, I do you have the city Yes.

420
00:32:54,560 --> 00:33:01,800
And here you have the the Karthi
of of the cartel of Hannibal

421
00:33:01,800 --> 00:33:03,240
cartel.
Here you see it.

422
00:33:03,720 --> 00:33:05,880
I do if you can go there.
Yeah, Oh.

423
00:33:06,520 --> 00:33:10,960
Yeah, this has old more than
2002 years.

424
00:33:11,360 --> 00:33:16,320
And here is the Mediterranean,
and there, if you can see a

425
00:33:16,320 --> 00:33:19,040
little bit of sea, is the Punic
port.

426
00:33:19,240 --> 00:33:22,000
OK, wow.
Holy moly.

427
00:33:22,200 --> 00:33:24,920
That's very good word.
Can't wait to see it.

428
00:33:25,000 --> 00:33:27,920
Yes, you have the word Betty.
Thank you.

429
00:33:27,920 --> 00:33:29,320
It's.
Working now.

430
00:33:29,800 --> 00:33:32,200
OK.
All right, fantastic.

431
00:33:32,280 --> 00:33:35,600
Betty Arish was telling me
something that that you could

432
00:33:35,600 --> 00:33:37,320
kind of attest to there.
Yeah.

433
00:33:37,520 --> 00:33:41,680
Are you in reference to?
I if I'm not mistaken I think

434
00:33:41,680 --> 00:33:45,400
she was talking about.
Different cultural ties that

435
00:33:45,400 --> 00:33:47,040
they had together.
Yeah.

436
00:33:47,320 --> 00:33:51,280
Thank you.
Well, one thing I wanted to

437
00:33:51,280 --> 00:33:58,640
emphasize is that in our stories
of our ancestors, monks, I'm not

438
00:33:58,640 --> 00:34:02,400
going to say all the Native
Americans, but most that I've

439
00:34:02,400 --> 00:34:06,920
read and research that we
believe we we believe we came

440
00:34:06,920 --> 00:34:12,000
from the east direction.
We don't believe in the coming

441
00:34:12,000 --> 00:34:15,000
across the Bering Strait, the
frozen land.

442
00:34:15,000 --> 00:34:19,280
We came from the east.
That's a lot of the beliefs

443
00:34:19,280 --> 00:34:24,080
amongst most of the natives.
And there are stories that talk

444
00:34:24,080 --> 00:34:27,520
about that.
How we got here on one among

445
00:34:27,520 --> 00:34:32,719
Mike's people, the Chippewa is
that they came in turtle like

446
00:34:32,719 --> 00:34:40,000
shaped vessels.
And my people also believe that

447
00:34:40,000 --> 00:34:42,639
we came from the east.
We celebrate the east.

448
00:34:42,639 --> 00:34:46,199
We we don't pray to the sun, we
pray in the direction of the

449
00:34:46,199 --> 00:34:50,480
rising sun and we celebrate the
east.

450
00:34:50,480 --> 00:34:52,719
We we make our homes in the
east.

451
00:34:52,719 --> 00:34:57,040
Some of our ceremonies are in
the East direction and we

452
00:34:57,040 --> 00:35:00,240
celebrate that we came from the
East in everyday life.

453
00:35:00,320 --> 00:35:06,000
And so this ship came from the,
you know, and their stories that

454
00:35:06,000 --> 00:35:10,480
our people came here from there.
So it's really strong in a lot

455
00:35:10,480 --> 00:35:17,120
of the Native American culture.
As far as the DNA, I've had my

456
00:35:17,120 --> 00:35:24,240
DNA done by one company and I
plan to do it again, but there

457
00:35:24,240 --> 00:35:30,200
is nothing that says that I'm
from any kind of Asian or like

458
00:35:30,800 --> 00:35:34,120
Chinese or any kind of any kind
of, is that Asian?

459
00:35:34,120 --> 00:35:37,640
I don't know.
Yeah, that I have.

460
00:35:37,720 --> 00:35:45,840
I don't have that blood in me.
But at first that's what the

461
00:35:46,160 --> 00:35:49,320
archaeologists and
anthropologists and people that

462
00:35:49,320 --> 00:35:52,600
work with the DNA and that kind
of stuff believe, that our

463
00:35:52,600 --> 00:35:55,040
people came from that Asian
descent.

464
00:35:55,040 --> 00:35:58,320
But we're not finding it now.
Interesting.

465
00:35:59,520 --> 00:36:05,040
So, but like I said, we're gonna
try to do a cultural exchange

466
00:36:05,040 --> 00:36:07,040
pretty soon.
I have been talking to different

467
00:36:07,040 --> 00:36:10,880
Native Americans and they're
excited about it.

468
00:36:12,080 --> 00:36:17,560
I did find a we don't call them
tribe, we call them Indian

469
00:36:17,560 --> 00:36:19,480
nation.
I did find an Indian nation in

470
00:36:19,480 --> 00:36:24,680
California where distinct
tattoos were done around their

471
00:36:24,680 --> 00:36:28,400
eyes here and their foreheads
and their face.

472
00:36:28,840 --> 00:36:33,560
And I compared it to the people
there in Tunisia, Carthage, and

473
00:36:33,560 --> 00:36:37,960
even Lebanese.
Very familiar tattoos, very,

474
00:36:38,040 --> 00:36:43,680
very familiar.
So I have a group that we may be

475
00:36:43,680 --> 00:36:48,400
taking there hopefully in the
fall of next year to have that

476
00:36:48,400 --> 00:36:53,760
cultural exchange with the
Tunisian people in that side of

477
00:36:53,760 --> 00:36:56,240
the world.
We're excited.

478
00:36:56,240 --> 00:37:02,240
We we know that in the history
and history books that

479
00:37:02,240 --> 00:37:08,280
historians have said very what
do you call it?

480
00:37:08,320 --> 00:37:11,760
I can't think of the word
strong.

481
00:37:12,400 --> 00:37:18,840
I'll just see you strong, very
strong believing and that we did

482
00:37:18,840 --> 00:37:22,640
come from the frozen land.
But after meeting these people,

483
00:37:22,640 --> 00:37:25,360
after meeting Irish and and
getting involved with the ship,

484
00:37:25,600 --> 00:37:30,560
my heart believes that story,
what we've always known.

485
00:37:31,120 --> 00:37:32,920
Wow.
And and it sounds like you have

486
00:37:32,920 --> 00:37:37,640
ancestral stories that kind of
help corroborate this, right?

487
00:37:38,560 --> 00:37:41,600
Not coming from the West, from
from the land bridge, coming

488
00:37:41,600 --> 00:37:44,280
from the east and and those
sorts of things.

489
00:37:44,280 --> 00:37:48,560
And too often, I'll say, I think
modern archaeology is too quick

490
00:37:48,560 --> 00:37:54,240
to just discount the the stories
of the people they're studying.

491
00:37:54,240 --> 00:37:57,640
Quite frankly, I think that
those those things have to be

492
00:37:57,640 --> 00:38:02,520
accounted for if you're going to
be doing work in in that field.

493
00:38:02,560 --> 00:38:04,160
I feel like that that's super
important.

494
00:38:04,720 --> 00:38:07,120
John, I want to bring you in
here for just a second.

495
00:38:08,280 --> 00:38:12,800
So what kind of things have you
found that that leads you to

496
00:38:12,800 --> 00:38:17,320
believe that, hey, contact
between North America and

497
00:38:17,320 --> 00:38:21,720
Carthage really did happen?
Well, we've been working on the

498
00:38:21,720 --> 00:38:28,520
ship now for three years.
It's been a major project and

499
00:38:28,520 --> 00:38:32,000
it's given us the chance to
become acquainted with people

500
00:38:32,640 --> 00:38:40,480
who aren't overseas.
We have seen in the last few

501
00:38:40,480 --> 00:38:44,120
years, particularly in the last
few months, an increased

502
00:38:44,120 --> 00:38:49,840
awareness of this ancient
contact between America and the

503
00:38:49,880 --> 00:38:54,800
Old World.
The ship is 40 tons.

504
00:38:55,960 --> 00:39:00,080
It is.
It has crossed two oceans.

505
00:39:01,080 --> 00:39:05,000
Philip Bale was careful in the
way he replicated the ship.

506
00:39:05,000 --> 00:39:13,360
It is a very faithful
replication of a 2600 year old

507
00:39:13,360 --> 00:39:17,640
ship.
It's the oldest ship replica

508
00:39:17,680 --> 00:39:19,760
that has crossed an ocean in the
world.

509
00:39:20,520 --> 00:39:24,040
We own it.
It's on the West Bank of the

510
00:39:24,040 --> 00:39:28,120
Mississippi in Montrose, IA.
That's just right together the

511
00:39:28,120 --> 00:39:32,120
river from Nauvoo, right?
Right in alignment with the

512
00:39:32,160 --> 00:39:34,680
Nauvoo Temple.
Beautiful place.

513
00:39:35,560 --> 00:39:38,440
We are grateful for the people
who have helped us.

514
00:39:39,120 --> 00:39:47,640
We've had many supporters and
maybe 150 volunteers.

515
00:39:48,320 --> 00:39:51,200
We put 6000 hours in on the
project.

516
00:39:51,720 --> 00:39:58,760
I think that we are probably 15%
through this restoration.

517
00:39:59,960 --> 00:40:05,160
The most exciting thing is how
the ship creates the potential

518
00:40:05,160 --> 00:40:09,840
for connection.
We've had a wonderful reception

519
00:40:09,840 --> 00:40:15,320
with the Tunisian ambassador.
In Washington, DC, we're working

520
00:40:15,320 --> 00:40:20,720
with Lebanese cultural groups.
Here in America, everyone has an

521
00:40:20,720 --> 00:40:26,000
awareness of their ancestors and
their the meaning of what the

522
00:40:26,000 --> 00:40:29,480
ship represents.
I think that at the personal

523
00:40:29,480 --> 00:40:37,280
level of Arish and Betty
Lafontaine, we witnessed, we get

524
00:40:37,280 --> 00:40:41,280
insights that that that none of
us could have beforehand

525
00:40:42,000 --> 00:40:47,160
expected very powerful stuff.
I'm happy that we are able to do

526
00:40:47,160 --> 00:40:52,120
this.
I think that we've had probably

527
00:40:52,520 --> 00:40:57,040
close to 1000 people who have
maybe 1500 people who have come

528
00:40:57,040 --> 00:40:59,920
to see the ship.
And we expected it will become a

529
00:40:59,920 --> 00:41:05,520
major attraction, a destination.
And in that space, we will

530
00:41:05,520 --> 00:41:10,760
celebrate the cultures of the
Old World and of the New World.

531
00:41:11,360 --> 00:41:14,800
The LA Fontains are very well
connected to the Native American

532
00:41:15,880 --> 00:41:20,360
tribes.
And hey, Mike, you've been a big

533
00:41:20,480 --> 00:41:23,520
force here.
Tell us how you've managed to to

534
00:41:23,960 --> 00:41:26,960
bring things together.
Well, it's a, it's a continuous

535
00:41:27,320 --> 00:41:30,600
management thing.
We've, we've got a lot of great

536
00:41:30,600 --> 00:41:35,560
volunteers from literally all
over the country to help put

537
00:41:35,560 --> 00:41:40,600
this ship together, figure out
the technology on how it was

538
00:41:40,600 --> 00:41:44,560
originally built.
And of course, putting it

539
00:41:44,560 --> 00:41:48,000
together is nothing like the way
that they originally built the

540
00:41:48,000 --> 00:41:52,960
ship, of course, because they
simply brought the ship into a

541
00:41:53,200 --> 00:41:55,720
dry dock and cut it up with
Sawzall.

542
00:41:55,720 --> 00:42:01,120
So we are in the process of
putting it back together in a

543
00:42:01,400 --> 00:42:03,760
totally different way.
But it's interesting to see how

544
00:42:03,760 --> 00:42:08,520
they built it, how the Timbers
were cut, Morris and tendons

545
00:42:08,520 --> 00:42:13,520
were done, the Dows and how the
ship, every part of that ship

546
00:42:13,520 --> 00:42:19,080
seems like it moves, but it but
it's strong as one whole piece.

547
00:42:19,080 --> 00:42:22,400
So that was an that's an
interesting thing we've been

548
00:42:22,400 --> 00:42:25,880
finding out about that.
Oh, go ahead.

549
00:42:26,000 --> 00:42:27,600
Sharon.
I.

550
00:42:27,600 --> 00:42:31,080
Just thought of a.
A friend that I met made a

551
00:42:31,120 --> 00:42:33,560
friend Navajo lady that's on
YouTube.

552
00:42:33,560 --> 00:42:38,160
She has a channel, her name is
Navajo Grandma if you want to

553
00:42:38,160 --> 00:42:40,800
look her up.
She tells a story about a

554
00:42:41,600 --> 00:42:48,480
trading post's owners along the
place called Chaco Canyon.

555
00:42:48,480 --> 00:42:50,680
I don't know if you ever heard
of Chaco Canyon.

556
00:42:50,680 --> 00:42:53,520
It's a Anasazi ruin in the
Southwest.

557
00:42:53,720 --> 00:42:56,960
She tells a story about the
trade traders that were there

558
00:42:56,960 --> 00:43:03,280
that were the trading post in
the early, gosh, what, 19 40s, I

559
00:43:03,280 --> 00:43:08,120
believe 1920s.
And they hired out some Navajo

560
00:43:08,120 --> 00:43:18,760
men and other locals to help
with move moving like sand and

561
00:43:18,760 --> 00:43:22,200
rocks and dirt.
And they were working outside

562
00:43:22,640 --> 00:43:26,280
and they were during their lunch
break and out there these men

563
00:43:26,280 --> 00:43:31,760
were some were holy men, which
were medicine men and some were

564
00:43:31,760 --> 00:43:34,200
just helpers.
And they were discussing

565
00:43:34,200 --> 00:43:38,640
something and they drew out this
thing on the sand like a like a

566
00:43:38,640 --> 00:43:42,480
city.
And the trader lady said, what

567
00:43:42,480 --> 00:43:44,440
are you doing?
What is that?

568
00:43:45,040 --> 00:43:48,960
He said she she couldn't believe
what she was seeing.

569
00:43:48,960 --> 00:43:52,160
She was seeing that.
She saw this big ship on this

570
00:43:52,160 --> 00:43:59,000
water with palm trees and
elephants and a wall.

571
00:44:00,200 --> 00:44:01,600
And they said.
Well, she said.

572
00:44:01,600 --> 00:44:02,480
Well.
What is this?

573
00:44:02,880 --> 00:44:04,520
Well, that's how our people
came.

574
00:44:04,520 --> 00:44:08,080
They came on this boat.
They came on this ship, and this

575
00:44:08,080 --> 00:44:12,160
is where they came from.
So she saw the palm trees and

576
00:44:12,160 --> 00:44:15,280
she was like really surprised,
like, Oh my goodness.

577
00:44:16,040 --> 00:44:17,920
So she instantly thought of
Jerusalem.

578
00:44:19,040 --> 00:44:24,160
So this stories have been
brought down.

579
00:44:24,160 --> 00:44:27,240
This actually is a friend of
mine's, her great, great

580
00:44:27,240 --> 00:44:32,480
grandfather who drew this this
thing on the floor of the on the

581
00:44:32,480 --> 00:44:36,800
ground on the in the sand.
So I made connections with her

582
00:44:36,960 --> 00:44:40,800
and I will probably be bringing
her to the to the group at some

583
00:44:40,800 --> 00:44:44,840
time.
So the stories are out there.

584
00:44:45,000 --> 00:44:49,040
They may not be written down,
but the oral history continues

585
00:44:49,040 --> 00:44:52,960
and straight stays very strong
within what we call the holy

586
00:44:52,960 --> 00:44:57,760
people who are the medicine
people in our in our tribes and

587
00:44:57,760 --> 00:45:03,120
also the females.
They carry on the story to the

588
00:45:03,120 --> 00:45:07,040
matriarchs of the family, Miss
Lafontaine.

589
00:45:07,360 --> 00:45:10,960
If you are open to it, I would
love to do a separate interview

590
00:45:10,960 --> 00:45:13,640
with, with just you.
I think you got some fascinating

591
00:45:13,640 --> 00:45:16,280
stuff that my audience would
love to hear if you're open to

592
00:45:16,280 --> 00:45:19,480
that.
So after this, after we wrap

593
00:45:19,480 --> 00:45:23,920
this up, I, I have Mike's number
and if I could call you guys and

594
00:45:23,920 --> 00:45:26,280
maybe set something up, that'd
be that'd be terrific.

595
00:45:27,480 --> 00:45:30,960
Hey, Dave, there's.
Another gentleman, Blaze

596
00:45:30,960 --> 00:45:33,440
Colisante, right?
I was getting to him.

597
00:45:33,440 --> 00:45:34,760
Next here.
Yep.

598
00:45:35,400 --> 00:45:36,880
So Blaze.
How do you?

599
00:45:36,880 --> 00:45:41,760
Fit in all.
This, well, I've I've known

600
00:45:41,760 --> 00:45:44,120
John.
Lefbren for about 30 years and

601
00:45:44,120 --> 00:45:49,760
got involved with the project
actually before.

602
00:45:49,760 --> 00:45:54,440
We acquired the.
Phoenicia ship and I've been

603
00:45:54,440 --> 00:45:58,160
involved with it ever since.
It's been a really interesting

604
00:45:58,160 --> 00:46:03,400
project from a sociological
standpoint, historical

605
00:46:03,400 --> 00:46:06,560
standpoint.
I I don't think the significance

606
00:46:06,560 --> 00:46:11,480
of it historically can be
understated to consider the the

607
00:46:11,480 --> 00:46:15,040
possibility that the Phoenicians
came to America 2000 years

608
00:46:15,040 --> 00:46:20,160
before Columbus The the.
Ship came about.

609
00:46:20,160 --> 00:46:25,720
Because there was a the the
lower section of a hull of a

610
00:46:25,720 --> 00:46:29,080
ship discovered in Marseille,
France in 1993 when they were

611
00:46:29,080 --> 00:46:32,760
doing some excavation work near
the waterfront in Marseille,

612
00:46:32,760 --> 00:46:35,400
France.
And the archaeologists came in

613
00:46:35,400 --> 00:46:38,800
and they determined that this
ship was Phoenician in origin,

614
00:46:39,200 --> 00:46:43,840
dated to around 6:00 or 700 BC.
And it was constructed after a

615
00:46:43,840 --> 00:46:47,960
Manor unlike anything else that
existed in that time period.

616
00:46:48,600 --> 00:46:51,800
So Phillip Beale became
interested in this because he

617
00:46:51,800 --> 00:46:56,000
has a strong interest in
maritime history and technology

618
00:46:57,320 --> 00:47:01,680
and had a ship reconstructed.
The Phoenicia that we now own

619
00:47:01,680 --> 00:47:06,520
was the the reconstruction based
on that technology that the

620
00:47:06,520 --> 00:47:10,880
archaeologists had ascertained
from studying the the Phoenician

621
00:47:10,880 --> 00:47:15,600
shipwreck.
So he built this ship because

622
00:47:15,600 --> 00:47:20,920
Herodotus, a Greek historian,
had an account in his history

623
00:47:21,480 --> 00:47:26,960
about the Phoenicians having
been commissioned by Necco the

624
00:47:26,960 --> 00:47:33,760
Second, an Egyptian pharaoh, in
600 BC to circumnavigate Africa.

625
00:47:34,480 --> 00:47:39,480
So historians have traditionally
thought that that was legend or

626
00:47:39,480 --> 00:47:43,360
hearsay and that there couldn't
be any veracity to that account.

627
00:47:43,880 --> 00:47:46,760
Philip Bill set out to prove
that the Phoenicians at least

628
00:47:46,760 --> 00:47:50,880
had the technical capability of
of performing that activity.

629
00:47:51,400 --> 00:47:55,080
And so he had the ship
constructed after the manner

630
00:47:55,080 --> 00:47:59,080
that the Phoenician shipwreck in
Marseilles, France was built.

631
00:47:59,640 --> 00:48:03,480
And he sailed around Africa and
it took two years for that

632
00:48:03,480 --> 00:48:09,600
expedition.
So having done that, coming up

633
00:48:09,600 --> 00:48:14,640
the east, the West Coast of
Africa, he was blown by wind and

634
00:48:14,640 --> 00:48:18,240
ocean currents to within 400
mile miles of the American

635
00:48:18,240 --> 00:48:22,760
continent.
And so he thought that perhaps

636
00:48:22,760 --> 00:48:26,760
the Phoenicians could have
discovered America 2000 years

637
00:48:26,760 --> 00:48:31,200
before Columbus.
So he put another expedition

638
00:48:31,200 --> 00:48:36,200
together about nine years later
in 2019, and crossed the

639
00:48:36,200 --> 00:48:40,280
Atlantic with that same ship.
And that's the ship that we now

640
00:48:40,280 --> 00:48:43,040
own and are reconstructing in
Montrose, IA.

641
00:48:43,920 --> 00:48:46,960
There have been other evidences,
you know, asked about evidences

642
00:48:46,960 --> 00:48:51,680
in the New World that give
evidence of the Phoenicians

643
00:48:51,680 --> 00:48:55,520
having been there.
Yeah, we mentioned some coins

644
00:48:55,520 --> 00:48:58,720
that have been found that have
Phoenician inscriptions on them.

645
00:48:59,240 --> 00:49:04,840
There are also a number of stone
carvings throughout the

646
00:49:04,840 --> 00:49:08,040
Mississippi Valley that have
been discovered that give

647
00:49:08,040 --> 00:49:13,440
depictions of an ocean going
ship that looks very much like

648
00:49:13,440 --> 00:49:18,080
the Phoenician ship that we, we
have are, are in the process of

649
00:49:18,080 --> 00:49:21,200
putting together.
And there are other inscriptions

650
00:49:21,200 --> 00:49:29,720
in Paleo, Hebraic and Phoenician
alphabet that give, you know,

651
00:49:29,720 --> 00:49:32,480
we're, we're looking into
determining whether they're

652
00:49:32,480 --> 00:49:34,240
authentic or whether they're
hoaxes.

653
00:49:34,760 --> 00:49:41,360
And so far the discoveries that
we've been investigating give

654
00:49:41,360 --> 00:49:43,680
evidence that they're, they're
real artifacts.

655
00:49:44,400 --> 00:49:48,320
So if the Phoenicians were here,
they left evidence of their

656
00:49:48,320 --> 00:49:51,440
their being here.
So we're we're pretty confident

657
00:49:51,440 --> 00:49:55,640
that the the Phoenicians had
their technical capability to

658
00:49:55,640 --> 00:49:59,760
cross the Atlantic.
And there's at least a good

659
00:49:59,760 --> 00:50:04,360
evidence that they were here
long before Columbus crossed the

660
00:50:04,360 --> 00:50:06,080
Atlantic.
Wow.

661
00:50:07,280 --> 00:50:11,680
So as as you find this evidence,
oh by the way.

662
00:50:11,680 --> 00:50:14,480
But before I do.
That Arish had messaged and

663
00:50:14,480 --> 00:50:18,400
asked if, if she could, if she
could, could leave the, the

664
00:50:18,400 --> 00:50:21,080
video and, and she is more than
welcome to do that.

665
00:50:21,920 --> 00:50:26,480
Arish, I, if you can hear me,
thank you so much for, for

666
00:50:26,480 --> 00:50:29,600
spending some time here with us.
And I would love to talk to you

667
00:50:29,600 --> 00:50:31,360
again.
You're a wealth of knowledge,

668
00:50:31,600 --> 00:50:34,360
super sharp.
Couldn't be happier that you

669
00:50:34,360 --> 00:50:37,160
came on.
So if you can hear me still,

670
00:50:37,160 --> 00:50:38,920
thank you for, for being on
here.

671
00:50:38,920 --> 00:50:40,760
I, I really, really appreciate
it.

672
00:50:42,320 --> 00:50:42,880
Thank.
You.

673
00:50:42,880 --> 00:50:46,440
Thank you, David.
Thank you and I, I really

674
00:50:46,440 --> 00:50:53,120
enjoyed talking with you and
with our friends and I hope also

675
00:50:53,120 --> 00:50:56,960
to to make another interview
with you another time.

676
00:50:57,360 --> 00:51:01,200
Thank you anytime you can.
Once you've been on once, you

677
00:51:01,200 --> 00:51:04,040
got a standing invitation to
come back on, you just have to

678
00:51:04,520 --> 00:51:07,400
either call me or e-mail me and
we'll make time for you to jump

679
00:51:07,400 --> 00:51:08,840
on.
So that's not a problem.

680
00:51:09,320 --> 00:51:11,400
Again, Arish, you're super
smart.

681
00:51:11,800 --> 00:51:14,640
Thank you so much for your
graciousness and coming on.

682
00:51:15,080 --> 00:51:16,800
Thank you, Dave.
All right, thanks.

683
00:51:17,760 --> 00:51:22,520
All right, Blaze back back to
you here for just a second.

684
00:51:24,120 --> 00:51:29,520
I, I have some questions for you
in terms of as you're gathering

685
00:51:29,520 --> 00:51:33,600
this information, are you
sharing this information with

686
00:51:33,600 --> 00:51:35,720
with archaeologists or
universities?

687
00:51:35,720 --> 00:51:40,320
And if so, what's what's the
general feel when you present

688
00:51:40,480 --> 00:51:46,400
this evidence well?
In regards to the the stones

689
00:51:46,400 --> 00:51:48,720
these are, they're not huge
stones.

690
00:51:49,120 --> 00:51:52,480
There's a collection of several
hundred of them in possession of

691
00:51:52,480 --> 00:51:56,840
the White family in Ohio.
John White Collection.

692
00:51:56,840 --> 00:52:02,800
These have been collected during
the 1960s throughout the

693
00:52:02,800 --> 00:52:09,600
Mississippi Valley.
We have looked into the the

694
00:52:09,760 --> 00:52:12,880
method by which these
inscriptions were made.

695
00:52:13,600 --> 00:52:18,360
We had a meeting at Lehigh
University in Bethlehem, PA,

696
00:52:19,280 --> 00:52:23,760
with the Electron microscopy
department to see whether we

697
00:52:23,760 --> 00:52:28,240
could do some imaging of the,
the inscriptions that were made

698
00:52:28,240 --> 00:52:30,640
to see if we could determine how
they were made, what, what

699
00:52:30,640 --> 00:52:35,800
tooling was used, whether there
was any tool residue in there

700
00:52:35,800 --> 00:52:39,080
that would give evidence of the,
the type of tool that was used

701
00:52:39,080 --> 00:52:42,000
to make those inscriptions.
And so we've done some

702
00:52:42,000 --> 00:52:46,080
investigation along those lines.
I think by and large, the

703
00:52:46,600 --> 00:52:52,440
academic community has not yet
been very interested in this

704
00:52:52,440 --> 00:52:57,320
because they've they've
discounted it out of hand as not

705
00:52:57,320 --> 00:52:59,840
being authentic.
So the first thing that we're

706
00:52:59,840 --> 00:53:05,000
trying to do is is authenticate
these artifacts as as real

707
00:53:05,320 --> 00:53:08,240
artifacts and not just something
that's been modern made.

708
00:53:09,120 --> 00:53:11,640
So if we can do that, I think it
will stimulate a lot of interest

709
00:53:11,640 --> 00:53:14,760
within the academic community.
We also have a fellow named

710
00:53:14,760 --> 00:53:20,880
Brian Nettles, who is a
linguistics, ancient linguistics

711
00:53:20,880 --> 00:53:24,760
expert, and he has been working
on translating some of the

712
00:53:24,760 --> 00:53:29,520
inscriptions on these stones.
And you would think that if they

713
00:53:29,520 --> 00:53:35,000
were a hoax, someone would have
to have a an intimate knowledge

714
00:53:35,040 --> 00:53:39,360
of the ancient alphabet and they
would have to have done a lot of

715
00:53:39,360 --> 00:53:43,000
research to have any meaning
attributed to these

716
00:53:43,000 --> 00:53:45,960
inscriptions.
If you were going to perpetrate

717
00:53:45,960 --> 00:53:48,600
a hoax and you had a knowledge
of the ancient alphabet, you

718
00:53:48,600 --> 00:53:52,560
could just inscribe any
characters on a stone and it

719
00:53:52,560 --> 00:53:56,960
would look authentic.
But Brian Nettles has taken a

720
00:53:56,960 --> 00:54:02,400
great deal of effort and time
into investigating the the

721
00:54:02,400 --> 00:54:05,960
characters that are there and
they not only form words, but

722
00:54:05,960 --> 00:54:09,600
they are words that convey
meaning, a narrative, if you

723
00:54:09,600 --> 00:54:14,040
will.
So it it it would seem unlikely

724
00:54:14,040 --> 00:54:17,920
that someone perpetrating A hoax
would go to that degree of of

725
00:54:17,920 --> 00:54:24,000
study to convey that kind of
information on on several 100

726
00:54:24,320 --> 00:54:29,920
artifact stones.
So we're we're we're working on

727
00:54:29,920 --> 00:54:33,080
trying to, you know, convey that
there is there's some

728
00:54:33,080 --> 00:54:36,680
authenticity to these artifacts.
So when you say these.

729
00:54:36,680 --> 00:54:40,640
Stones tell a story, right?
It's kind of how I'm putting

730
00:54:40,800 --> 00:54:42,480
kind of words in your mouth.
Now, if, if I'm

731
00:54:42,560 --> 00:54:44,320
misunderstanding, please correct
me.

732
00:54:44,920 --> 00:54:47,320
But it sounds like that these
stones kind of tell a, a

733
00:54:47,320 --> 00:54:50,800
coherent story, right?
The inscription on these stones,

734
00:54:51,160 --> 00:54:52,400
what is that story?
What?

735
00:54:52,400 --> 00:54:53,720
What?
What are they saying?

736
00:54:54,320 --> 00:54:57,640
I'm going to let John John talk.
About that he has a a more

737
00:54:57,640 --> 00:55:00,920
intimate knowledge of one of the
stones in particular that Brian

738
00:55:00,920 --> 00:55:03,760
Nettles has worked on and I'll
I'll turn it over to John to to

739
00:55:03,760 --> 00:55:06,840
convey that want more from the
Mormon.

740
00:55:06,840 --> 00:55:11,440
Renegade Podcast Head over to
the Mormon Renegade Rumble page

741
00:55:11,440 --> 00:55:15,440
to see all the videos from the
podcast and the fundamental news

742
00:55:15,440 --> 00:55:18,560
program for free still.
Not enough.

743
00:55:19,200 --> 00:55:23,160
Then join the Mormon Renegade
Locals page by clicking the red

744
00:55:23,160 --> 00:55:26,400
join button.
And for $5 a month, you can have

745
00:55:26,400 --> 00:55:31,280
access to podcast transcripts,
Renegade exclusives, as well as

746
00:55:31,280 --> 00:55:34,800
weekly Life Stream show with the
host, Dave Sanders.

747
00:55:35,280 --> 00:55:38,520
Click the link in this episode's
show notes today.

748
00:55:40,240 --> 00:55:44,760
Scurvy is an ancient word and
disease.

749
00:55:45,480 --> 00:55:49,120
More than a million sailors
during the time of European

750
00:55:49,120 --> 00:55:57,800
discovery died of scurvy.
Scurvy is a awful disease that

751
00:55:57,800 --> 00:56:01,760
occurs when you do not have
vitamin C.

752
00:56:02,760 --> 00:56:07,400
Your teeth fall out.
Ultimately your brain stops to

753
00:56:07,600 --> 00:56:10,280
work.
It doesn't function at the end,

754
00:56:10,280 --> 00:56:13,920
you die it.
Is the disease.

755
00:56:13,920 --> 00:56:21,480
Of a of a maritime culture.
You either when you go to sea

756
00:56:21,480 --> 00:56:27,960
for three months, if you don't
have vitamin C, it's not going

757
00:56:27,960 --> 00:56:32,360
to be good.
Many of the many of the British

758
00:56:32,360 --> 00:56:37,920
ships in the 1700s would
calculate before leaving that

759
00:56:37,920 --> 00:56:40,000
half their crew would die of
scurvy.

760
00:56:41,080 --> 00:56:45,520
This is a big, big thing.
Now the sailors of England are

761
00:56:45,520 --> 00:56:52,360
called limeys and the soldiers
of Germany are called krauts.

762
00:56:52,800 --> 00:56:58,200
Sauerkraut has the vitamin C,
and the limes that the sailors

763
00:56:58,200 --> 00:57:02,920
sucked on gave them the relief
from scurvy.

764
00:57:03,800 --> 00:57:07,080
So scurvy is a word that appears
in Hebrew.

765
00:57:08,360 --> 00:57:09,720
It is a.
Condition that is.

766
00:57:09,720 --> 00:57:18,760
Really clear and this stone
seems to be an advertisement for

767
00:57:19,080 --> 00:57:25,520
a a product that is probably
rich in vitamin C.

768
00:57:26,960 --> 00:57:35,600
Maybe some kind of Lily pad or
something dried out, but the the

769
00:57:35,600 --> 00:57:41,760
inscription tells the story of
how it starts in your mouth.

770
00:57:43,480 --> 00:57:47,920
Goes into your body.
And then destroys your mind.

771
00:57:49,520 --> 00:57:54,440
Take this, take this and and and
and you'll be protected from

772
00:57:54,440 --> 00:57:59,240
that.
That is a clear story associated

773
00:57:59,240 --> 00:58:06,440
with the sea, with the oceans.
That stone is written in a

774
00:58:07,520 --> 00:58:11,720
script which associates with
with the ancient Phoenicians.

775
00:58:13,040 --> 00:58:16,080
Now you can't make that up.
That's that's fascinating.

776
00:58:16,080 --> 00:58:20,240
And the first thing I thought
is, was that maybe the first

777
00:58:20,240 --> 00:58:23,960
time we saw a pharmaceutical ad
was on a ride, right?

778
00:58:24,520 --> 00:58:26,920
I, I wonder if there's selling
these three.

779
00:58:26,960 --> 00:58:28,400
I wonder.
I wonder if there was a great.

780
00:58:28,400 --> 00:58:31,680
Big long list where he says at
the end you may also experience

781
00:58:31,800 --> 00:58:34,400
all these other symptoms.
But anyway, that's just how my

782
00:58:34,400 --> 00:58:35,680
mind works.
Sorry about that.

783
00:58:35,680 --> 00:58:37,360
No, it's it's.
It's an.

784
00:58:37,360 --> 00:58:40,040
Interesting stone.
I felt it and looked at it.

785
00:58:40,080 --> 00:58:42,560
It it's, it's fits very nicely
in your hand.

786
00:58:43,560 --> 00:58:47,480
The inscription.
Yeah, it's Brian Nels has done

787
00:58:47,480 --> 00:58:51,400
the translation that came out
only a few months ago.

788
00:58:52,680 --> 00:58:55,160
You can find it on his website.
I mean, there's, there's a lot

789
00:58:55,160 --> 00:58:57,080
going on.
There's the, the, the frontier

790
00:58:57,080 --> 00:59:00,520
of this knowledge is moving very
fast, right?

791
00:59:00,840 --> 00:59:02,520
Very fast.
Let me ask you this.

792
00:59:02,520 --> 00:59:04,680
Have.
Those stones underway, I know

793
00:59:04,680 --> 00:59:08,400
there's something called
forensic geology where they can

794
00:59:08,400 --> 00:59:12,920
basically, you know, get
microscopic images of the, of

795
00:59:12,920 --> 00:59:15,920
the glyphs themselves, which
will tell them, you know,

796
00:59:15,920 --> 00:59:17,560
approximately when that was
done.

797
00:59:17,560 --> 00:59:19,960
Has has any of that work been
done on those stones yet?

798
00:59:19,960 --> 00:59:24,240
We we went to Lehigh.
University and Blaze was

799
00:59:24,240 --> 00:59:29,600
involved with all of that the
the stone is a a a blue

800
00:59:29,600 --> 00:59:36,520
limestone from the Mississippi
River Valley, something that is

801
00:59:37,160 --> 00:59:41,560
common enough.
Blaze, tell us what you did with

802
00:59:41,560 --> 00:59:46,760
the the the the stone
inscription.

803
00:59:47,200 --> 00:59:48,720
Well, yeah, we were interested
to.

804
00:59:48,720 --> 00:59:53,200
See what type of tooling might
have made those inscriptions.

805
00:59:54,880 --> 00:59:57,200
You know, obviously I, I, I
think if someone were

806
00:59:57,200 --> 01:00:01,360
perpetrating A hoax, they would
use maybe a diamond tip Dremel

807
01:00:01,360 --> 01:00:03,040
tool or something of that
nature.

808
01:00:05,120 --> 01:00:07,640
If they were trying to really.
Authenticate what was done.

809
01:00:07,640 --> 01:00:11,520
They would use something else.
I've been involved as a as a

810
01:00:11,560 --> 01:00:15,200
primitive skills enthusiast for
probably 25 years.

811
01:00:16,440 --> 01:00:19,840
I, I make stone tools,
arrowheads, you know, stone

812
01:00:19,840 --> 01:00:25,000
knives, things like that.
And John was very excited about

813
01:00:25,640 --> 01:00:27,680
how these inscriptions were
made.

814
01:00:28,160 --> 01:00:30,680
Limestone is a fairly soft
stone.

815
01:00:31,080 --> 01:00:35,040
Flint is fairly hard by
comparison and anything that is

816
01:00:35,040 --> 01:00:39,600
harder than the material that
you want to inscribe, we'll be

817
01:00:39,600 --> 01:00:43,320
able to scratch or inscribe on
that material.

818
01:00:44,160 --> 01:00:49,280
So John came over to my home one
day and we made a tool called a

819
01:00:49,360 --> 01:00:55,760
burin BURIN.
It's a small piece of chisel

820
01:00:55,760 --> 01:01:02,000
like tipped stone and I made one
and we John immediately wanted

821
01:01:02,000 --> 01:01:04,000
to know if I had any limestone
around.

822
01:01:04,000 --> 01:01:06,400
While limestone's fairly common
in our area.

823
01:01:06,400 --> 01:01:08,880
And I went out to the flower bed
and brought a piece in and we

824
01:01:08,880 --> 01:01:14,640
were able to to scratch into
that stone with this Flint

825
01:01:14,640 --> 01:01:19,880
Burren, two of the characters
that were inscribed on this

826
01:01:19,880 --> 01:01:24,280
scurvy stone.
So, you know, the the tooling

827
01:01:24,360 --> 01:01:31,080
was available to manufacture
those types of artifacts at any

828
01:01:31,280 --> 01:01:34,600
time anciently.
The other thing that I think we

829
01:01:34,600 --> 01:01:39,680
we have to consider is that the
Phoenicians were one of the

830
01:01:39,680 --> 01:01:43,520
first people to use iron nails
in their ships.

831
01:01:44,160 --> 01:01:47,600
And so they're they also had
iron artifacts that could have

832
01:01:47,600 --> 01:01:49,840
been used to inscribe those
characters.

833
01:01:50,400 --> 01:01:55,560
So, you know, we're looking to
see under microscopic

834
01:01:55,560 --> 01:01:59,360
examination the type of tooling,
different tools will leave

835
01:01:59,360 --> 01:02:02,720
different microscopic scratches
in the stone that was being

836
01:02:02,720 --> 01:02:06,560
inscribed.
And so we hope to find out

837
01:02:06,560 --> 01:02:11,280
whether there are, you know,
evidences of iron tool use or

838
01:02:11,280 --> 01:02:15,000
stone tool use.
And the other thing that could

839
01:02:15,000 --> 01:02:18,640
have been used would be some
type of hardened copper or

840
01:02:18,640 --> 01:02:22,880
bronze tooling.
And those metal tools would

841
01:02:22,880 --> 01:02:27,120
possibly leave some type of
metallic residue in the

842
01:02:27,120 --> 01:02:29,960
inscriptions.
So, you know, we're hoping to,

843
01:02:30,040 --> 01:02:33,200
to investigate this further.
This is really just beginning to

844
01:02:33,200 --> 01:02:36,520
be explored.
So we're, we're hoping to see

845
01:02:36,520 --> 01:02:41,000
more evidence come forth, you
know, in response to our

846
01:02:41,000 --> 01:02:44,040
research regarding how those
inscriptions were made.

847
01:02:45,960 --> 01:02:47,680
Wow.
Holy cow.

848
01:02:47,720 --> 01:02:52,240
And and when, when did we start
seeing about what year did we

849
01:02:52,240 --> 01:02:55,520
start really looking at this and
thinking, OK, there, there could

850
01:02:55,520 --> 01:03:00,640
be kind of a Phoenician slash
Carthaginian connection to the

851
01:03:00,640 --> 01:03:02,600
new world.
What years did this really

852
01:03:02,600 --> 01:03:05,400
start, start?
Well, I think I think the first

853
01:03:05,400 --> 01:03:09,120
connection.
Was probably what, 1750 with

854
01:03:09,120 --> 01:03:10,480
some?
Phoenician Inscriptions.

855
01:03:10,480 --> 01:03:12,520
That are still up in New
England.

856
01:03:12,920 --> 01:03:18,480
I mean, it's, we've, we have
encountered this in our European

857
01:03:19,240 --> 01:03:25,120
settlements over the last 20
generations.

858
01:03:26,600 --> 01:03:33,240
Nobody easily can translate it.
They think it's just an

859
01:03:33,240 --> 01:03:35,800
inscription with, with you know
who, who did it.

860
01:03:35,800 --> 01:03:37,360
I don't know, some farmer, I
don't.

861
01:03:37,360 --> 01:03:42,600
But then they've been here.
So, so there are books and then

862
01:03:42,600 --> 01:03:46,120
there are books.
There are literally thousands of

863
01:03:46,120 --> 01:03:50,440
artifacts that have inscriptions
written on them.

864
01:03:51,080 --> 01:03:55,520
And many of the characters
relate to the old world.

865
01:03:56,400 --> 01:04:03,320
What these I, I, you know, I,
they've been neglected for sure.

866
01:04:04,320 --> 01:04:07,880
And after a while we know we're
so limited in what we have in

867
01:04:07,880 --> 01:04:11,920
terms of resources.
We have only so much money, very

868
01:04:11,920 --> 01:04:16,360
little money.
And so there is always a great

869
01:04:16,360 --> 01:04:20,760
risk that we're going to lose
our attention and not finish the

870
01:04:20,760 --> 01:04:23,320
project at hand.
I mean, we, we, we have to

871
01:04:23,320 --> 01:04:25,760
finish the ship.
The ship is going to bring in a

872
01:04:25,760 --> 01:04:29,400
lot more it'll bring.
In a lot more the ship is.

873
01:04:29,400 --> 01:04:35,840
The clearest connection in the
history of the European

874
01:04:36,960 --> 01:04:42,640
settlements that the ancient
world was connected to America

875
01:04:42,800 --> 01:04:47,320
2000 years before Columbus.
It is, is a powerful witness,

876
01:04:48,000 --> 01:04:50,640
powerful witness.
And it only gets better that the

877
01:04:50,640 --> 01:04:56,120
closer we get to, to the, to the
old world.

878
01:04:56,520 --> 01:05:02,480
Our, our, our contact with
Carthage is, is now only maybe

879
01:05:03,800 --> 01:05:07,880
six months.
It's only been they've come over

880
01:05:07,880 --> 01:05:11,000
here twice.
We're very excited about this

881
01:05:11,000 --> 01:05:13,400
potential.
Absolutely.

882
01:05:13,800 --> 01:05:19,880
It's it's refreshing in, in, in
so many ways because they see

883
01:05:19,880 --> 01:05:24,000
things sometimes better than we
could ever see them, right?

884
01:05:24,480 --> 01:05:27,160
Of course, they're speaking
languages that we don't speak,

885
01:05:28,200 --> 01:05:33,760
but we have this common, common
link in our, in the history of

886
01:05:33,760 --> 01:05:36,760
the of the two worlds.
Very exciting.

887
01:05:37,320 --> 01:05:42,120
Absolutely.
And John, real quick, if if you

888
01:05:42,120 --> 01:05:44,080
don't want to answer this right
now, that's fine.

889
01:05:44,080 --> 01:05:49,920
I can edit this out.
But would would you maybe talk

890
01:05:49,920 --> 01:05:54,760
about why it is Mormons should
be so curious about this?

891
01:05:56,720 --> 01:06:00,040
Well, it's it's.
A very good question and I don't

892
01:06:00,040 --> 01:06:01,880
know that I have a very good
answer.

893
01:06:02,520 --> 01:06:10,880
The there is certainly opinion
and counter opinion about

894
01:06:11,240 --> 01:06:14,680
different things.
The the the one thing that is

895
01:06:14,680 --> 01:06:18,960
really wonderful is that the
truth will will come out.

896
01:06:19,800 --> 01:06:21,400
The truth will come out of the
ground.

897
01:06:22,760 --> 01:06:29,560
And I don't know that we need to
come to this research to this

898
01:06:31,000 --> 01:06:33,600
project with with faith in the
Book of Mormon.

899
01:06:33,680 --> 01:06:35,640
The people in the old world
don't have it.

900
01:06:35,960 --> 01:06:41,600
They Arish does not have right
knowledge of that, but she has a

901
01:06:41,600 --> 01:06:43,400
lot of knowledge of her, of her
people.

902
01:06:45,120 --> 01:06:51,720
And so it is with the Lebanese.
And so the idea is to have a big

903
01:06:51,720 --> 01:06:57,560
tent, to have a place where
Native Americans were Lebanese,

904
01:06:57,960 --> 01:07:03,360
with Carthaginians, where the
king of Morocco can send his

905
01:07:03,680 --> 01:07:07,600
representative.
There is no one standing at the

906
01:07:07,600 --> 01:07:13,480
door requiring some kind of
faith in the Book of Mormon.

907
01:07:13,800 --> 01:07:15,520
Book of Mormon's going to stand
by itself.

908
01:07:16,640 --> 01:07:18,000
There's nothing.
More we can do.

909
01:07:18,000 --> 01:07:23,080
About that, I mean it is, it is
very complex, it is very ancient

910
01:07:23,080 --> 01:07:29,000
in its origin and it's it's
there, but I don't know that

911
01:07:29,000 --> 01:07:33,280
it's required.
To.

912
01:07:33,960 --> 01:07:36,200
You know, you know, come one,
come all.

913
01:07:36,360 --> 01:07:38,440
We're all welcome.
Let's, let's, let's make sure

914
01:07:38,440 --> 01:07:42,720
first of all, that we are
friends and that we, we

915
01:07:42,720 --> 01:07:48,000
recognize and appreciate the,
the contribution that each of

916
01:07:48,000 --> 01:07:51,760
us, you know, each one can make.
We are truth seekers.

917
01:07:52,400 --> 01:07:58,000
I mean, I, I, I think it's
better to have this open door

918
01:07:59,040 --> 01:08:00,440
than to.
Simply say.

919
01:08:00,440 --> 01:08:02,040
Hey, look like this is the way
it's going to be.

920
01:08:02,040 --> 01:08:11,160
We, it's, it's wonderful that we
are able to have conversations

921
01:08:11,600 --> 01:08:15,720
with people in the ancient world
that are meaningful.

922
01:08:17,399 --> 01:08:24,040
The ambassador of Tunisia in
Washington, DC was very generous

923
01:08:24,200 --> 01:08:30,680
in her public statements with
regard to to the connection of

924
01:08:31,000 --> 01:08:36,040
her ancient people to America.
Wonderful let's you know, I, I,

925
01:08:36,040 --> 01:08:41,800
I think that the the religious
aspect is certainly important,

926
01:08:43,160 --> 01:08:46,800
but.
Let let our missionaries.

927
01:08:48,120 --> 01:08:49,920
Do that work.
I'm not saying for

928
01:08:49,920 --> 01:08:51,720
proselytizing.
Purposes right?

929
01:08:52,439 --> 01:08:58,240
My thought is, is that as
members, we do have an interest

930
01:08:58,240 --> 01:09:02,240
in this right, in terms of we
should see some sort of evidence

931
01:09:02,279 --> 01:09:04,240
and well, I, I, you know, I
would say, let me.

932
01:09:04,279 --> 01:09:08,880
Let me say it this way though.
There is often more indifference

933
01:09:09,560 --> 01:09:14,319
right in what we are doing from
people who are here in America,

934
01:09:14,880 --> 01:09:17,200
right, who have.
We share a.

935
01:09:17,200 --> 01:09:24,600
Common faith when I compare it
to to people like Arish, right

936
01:09:25,240 --> 01:09:27,120
Well.
She's coming completely.

937
01:09:27,120 --> 01:09:33,080
From a different background and
she is seeing things that none

938
01:09:33,080 --> 01:09:35,600
of us would have been able to to
see before.

939
01:09:36,120 --> 01:09:39,920
No, I, you know, we, we don't
get enough support from the

940
01:09:39,920 --> 01:09:42,600
Americans, that's for sure.
Sure, sure.

941
01:09:43,080 --> 01:09:45,800
Well, and, and here's the thing,
just like you were saying,

942
01:09:46,120 --> 01:09:49,560
that's her culture, right?
She if, if there's things over

943
01:09:49,560 --> 01:09:53,840
here that we don't understand,
she has those eyes that can see

944
01:09:53,840 --> 01:09:56,880
those things way better than we
can, 'cause that's not our

945
01:09:56,920 --> 01:10:00,120
question.
I was at the same table.

946
01:10:00,280 --> 01:10:05,480
Eating dinner with her and other
friends when Betty Red Ant made

947
01:10:05,480 --> 01:10:11,160
the Navajo fry bread.
When Arish saw that, she thought

948
01:10:11,160 --> 01:10:15,840
she was going back to a bakery,
a place that she knew very well,

949
01:10:16,480 --> 01:10:20,320
or to the Berber women of her
country, she says.

950
01:10:20,320 --> 01:10:25,520
Where did you get the recipe?
This is our bread now.

951
01:10:26,160 --> 01:10:28,800
I I would never have been able
to make that connection.

952
01:10:29,320 --> 01:10:31,280
Sure, sure, you.
Can.

953
01:10:32,240 --> 01:10:34,400
What are what are some of the
biggest?

954
01:10:34,920 --> 01:10:38,040
Obstacles, that's standing in
your guys's way now as you try

955
01:10:38,040 --> 01:10:41,360
to push this because it's a
Herculean task, right?

956
01:10:41,600 --> 01:10:43,080
Oh, it is.
And so.

957
01:10:43,080 --> 01:10:46,040
We have, of course we have
opinion and, and, and that's

958
01:10:46,040 --> 01:10:47,960
good.
And, and those, those opinions

959
01:10:47,960 --> 01:10:54,000
can differ.
The, the, the volunteers are

960
01:10:54,000 --> 01:10:57,240
incredibly generous with their
time.

961
01:10:58,080 --> 01:11:01,720
We've had maybe 100 or more
people who have helped us in

962
01:11:01,720 --> 01:11:05,480
ways that are just remarkable.
It always surprises us where the

963
01:11:05,480 --> 01:11:10,040
talent comes from.
I think that, you know, if if

964
01:11:10,040 --> 01:11:15,400
you have talent, that's more
important than money, talent is

965
01:11:15,720 --> 01:11:18,480
you know it and, and the talent
is not going to come from just

966
01:11:18,480 --> 01:11:21,800
one person, right, so.
So you need a.

967
01:11:21,920 --> 01:11:27,440
A a core, maybe as many as I
would say we have maybe 50 or

968
01:11:27,440 --> 01:11:31,360
100 and and all of them bring a
great deal of skill.

969
01:11:33,200 --> 01:11:38,720
The average professional
experience from these volunteers

970
01:11:38,720 --> 01:11:42,920
maybe 20 years.
So you do. 20 * 100.

971
01:11:42,920 --> 01:11:45,680
That's 2000 years of
professional experience in many

972
01:11:45,680 --> 01:11:48,600
different areas.
Many different areas, sure.

973
01:11:48,960 --> 01:11:50,480
A lot of this is practical
stuff.

974
01:11:50,480 --> 01:11:56,960
Some of it is scientific.
It's it's not academic so much I

975
01:11:57,000 --> 01:12:05,160
all of our volunteers are are
experienced and well trained and

976
01:12:05,160 --> 01:12:08,720
have some have academic
training, others have other

977
01:12:09,000 --> 01:12:11,400
types of training.
Sure, sure.

978
01:12:11,640 --> 01:12:16,120
You, as I was saying there, you,
you so so the talent is

979
01:12:16,120 --> 01:12:19,160
necessary.
Right before anything else, you

980
01:12:19,160 --> 01:12:20,720
need talent.
We have the talent.

981
01:12:20,760 --> 01:12:23,080
After that, we need some money.
Gotcha.

982
01:12:23,560 --> 01:12:26,120
We'll, we'll.
We'll cover that here, here in

983
01:12:26,120 --> 01:12:27,960
just a second, 'cause I wanna
make sure we get that

984
01:12:27,960 --> 01:12:33,080
information out 'cause I think
it's important people forget

985
01:12:33,160 --> 01:12:37,560
that the science or discipline
of archaeology is just over 100

986
01:12:37,560 --> 01:12:40,400
years old, right?
It's not, it's not very much.

987
01:12:40,400 --> 01:12:44,640
But what has happened is, is
that in that 100 years, you've

988
01:12:44,640 --> 01:12:49,960
had folks in, in that community
come out and say after 50 years,

989
01:12:49,960 --> 01:12:51,360
well, we got history figured
out.

990
01:12:51,360 --> 01:12:52,960
There's no point in looking
anymore.

991
01:12:53,320 --> 01:12:55,240
We've got the narrative.
It's here.

992
01:12:55,840 --> 01:13:02,040
What you're trying to do is, is
say no, that the science isn't

993
01:13:02,040 --> 01:13:05,280
settled on this right?
That there's more out there for

994
01:13:05,280 --> 01:13:09,720
us to discover.
And that's, that is a, a huge

995
01:13:09,720 --> 01:13:12,720
lift.
That's a huge ask because the,

996
01:13:12,800 --> 01:13:16,640
the, these narratives don't go
away normally quietly in the

997
01:13:16,640 --> 01:13:18,120
night.
They go out kicking and

998
01:13:18,120 --> 01:13:21,840
screaming once there's enough
evidence to kind of change the

999
01:13:21,840 --> 01:13:24,680
narrative at hand.
And that's what I find so

1000
01:13:24,680 --> 01:13:28,200
refreshing about what, what you
folks are doing here is that

1001
01:13:28,640 --> 01:13:31,520
you're not saying yes or no,
You're just saying there's some

1002
01:13:31,520 --> 01:13:34,600
common connections here and
there's some evidence that we

1003
01:13:34,600 --> 01:13:36,560
think deserves some explanation,
right?

1004
01:13:36,560 --> 01:13:41,240
Deserves to be looked at and and
that's tough to get done right.

1005
01:13:41,240 --> 01:13:44,200
I mean, but we're seeing it
we're starting to see it happen,

1006
01:13:44,200 --> 01:13:45,680
right.
We're seeing things like the

1007
01:13:45,680 --> 01:13:49,480
Clovis first model begin to be
challenged a little bit and

1008
01:13:49,480 --> 01:13:53,280
that's huge That at least allows
the room for discussion, but

1009
01:13:53,280 --> 01:13:56,400
it's still a big ask.
So you you, you said that you're

1010
01:13:56,400 --> 01:13:59,720
you're in need of funds more
than anything else.

1011
01:13:59,720 --> 01:14:03,200
Where can people go if they
needed to do that to if they

1012
01:14:03,200 --> 01:14:05,400
wanted to donate?
Well, we have a.

1013
01:14:06,240 --> 01:14:09,960
Phoenicia dot Rocks.
It's a website.

1014
01:14:09,960 --> 01:14:13,200
There's a donate button and
that's probably the most direct

1015
01:14:13,200 --> 01:14:18,200
place to to donate.
We will, of course, take

1016
01:14:20,080 --> 01:14:23,600
donations in whatever form we
can manage to get them.

1017
01:14:24,320 --> 01:14:30,440
We've had some stocks donated to
us, we've had some rather large

1018
01:14:30,520 --> 01:14:31,920
amounts.
We've gone through it all.

1019
01:14:31,920 --> 01:14:35,600
But what we've done so far is
remarkable with the little money

1020
01:14:35,600 --> 01:14:39,840
that we've had.
We want to build a museum.

1021
01:14:41,120 --> 01:14:48,320
I am sure, I am so very sure
that as we go forward, there'll

1022
01:14:48,320 --> 01:14:52,600
be more light and knowledge and
that it will become more

1023
01:14:52,600 --> 01:14:56,960
exciting for all of us and it
will be more meaningful for all

1024
01:14:56,960 --> 01:14:59,760
of us.
What we've discovered in the

1025
01:14:59,760 --> 01:15:02,640
last two years, in the last
eight years we've been working

1026
01:15:02,640 --> 01:15:06,040
on this.
I'd like Mike Lafontaine is been

1027
01:15:06,040 --> 01:15:08,200
working with all of our
volunteers.

1028
01:15:09,080 --> 01:15:10,240
Mike have something.
What?

1029
01:15:10,240 --> 01:15:14,320
What do you say so you know?
If people.

1030
01:15:14,320 --> 01:15:15,280
Want to get involved?
Come.

1031
01:15:15,280 --> 01:15:18,600
By and see the ship we're we're
right there on Trose, of course

1032
01:15:18,600 --> 01:15:21,920
and like John said in the last
two years we've had.

1033
01:15:21,920 --> 01:15:27,840
About 6. 1000 hours of volunteer
service from all walks alive

1034
01:15:27,840 --> 01:15:33,440
members, non members, whatever.
They just really are interested

1035
01:15:33,440 --> 01:15:37,280
in coming by and seeing the ship
and touching the ship and and

1036
01:15:38,280 --> 01:15:40,000
learning a story.
This thing's going around.

1037
01:15:40,000 --> 01:15:45,920
Africa has come over to America.
The technology is a 6th century

1038
01:15:45,920 --> 01:15:50,280
BC technology.
You're asking Sean earlier about

1039
01:15:50,440 --> 01:15:55,200
what people think in the church
and what may intrigue them in

1040
01:15:55,200 --> 01:15:58,560
the LES community.
Most people understand and know

1041
01:15:58,560 --> 01:16:03,960
the significance of 600 BC
because that's when this great

1042
01:16:03,960 --> 01:16:07,080
city of Jerusalem was destroyed
and that was the time that

1043
01:16:08,320 --> 01:16:13,760
Lehigh fled Jerusalem along with
Mulich and.

1044
01:16:13,760 --> 01:16:16,200
His group also fled.
About that same time, and here

1045
01:16:16,200 --> 01:16:19,280
you have Captain.
Phillip, Bill A.

1046
01:16:20,280 --> 01:16:26,880
Explorer, you know, and building
a replica 600 BC Phoenician ship

1047
01:16:27,680 --> 01:16:30,400
out of the blue out of all the
years it could be building all

1048
01:16:30,400 --> 01:16:34,640
the different shipwrecks that he
could have found and and modeled

1049
01:16:34,640 --> 01:16:41,280
a ship after it was a 600 BC
Phoenician ship and sell it to

1050
01:16:41,280 --> 01:16:44,520
America.
So that's that's a that's an

1051
01:16:44,520 --> 01:16:48,840
intriguing point of interest.
But more so people just love

1052
01:16:48,840 --> 01:16:52,400
coming by seeing it, touching
it, working on it.

1053
01:16:52,400 --> 01:16:58,360
It takes us around 40 hours, 40
man hours to build to to to prep

1054
01:16:58,400 --> 01:17:01,800
each piece.
The piece is it's there's about

1055
01:17:01,800 --> 01:17:08,000
120 pieces of the ship and each
piece takes about 40 hours of

1056
01:17:08,000 --> 01:17:11,440
prep and then we.
Have then we install.

1057
01:17:11,440 --> 01:17:15,680
It so a lot.
Of prep goes into.

1058
01:17:15,720 --> 01:17:20,240
It and installing it and people
get to see how it was put

1059
01:17:20,240 --> 01:17:23,840
together versus how we're.
Putting it back together.

1060
01:17:23,840 --> 01:17:28,120
But it's a very interesting
project for all people, young

1061
01:17:28,120 --> 01:17:33,440
and old, you know, male, female,
religious, non religious is just

1062
01:17:33,720 --> 01:17:37,880
a part of history.
That's that's been missing out

1063
01:17:37,880 --> 01:17:42,480
of our school system because we
all know that we've been taught

1064
01:17:42,480 --> 01:17:46,720
in school that Columbus
discovered America Blaze.

1065
01:17:46,720 --> 01:17:49,040
Why don't you?
Tell a little bit about the

1066
01:17:49,400 --> 01:17:55,120
Cedar of Lebanon and the logs
that we have the.

1067
01:17:55,200 --> 01:18:01,480
Phoenician ship replica that
Phillip Beale built was made of

1068
01:18:02,320 --> 01:18:05,240
Timbers that were available to
him.

1069
01:18:05,680 --> 01:18:11,800
So we have some oak planks, we
have Aleppo pine.

1070
01:18:12,960 --> 01:18:17,600
Different materials that were
used that he had access to the

1071
01:18:17,600 --> 01:18:24,520
Phoenician ships in 600 BC would
have been constructed of cedar

1072
01:18:24,520 --> 01:18:27,000
of Lebanon.
And we read about cedar of

1073
01:18:27,000 --> 01:18:29,640
Lebanon in the Bible.
It was used to build King

1074
01:18:29,640 --> 01:18:34,160
Solomon's temple, the first
temple in Jerusalem and also

1075
01:18:34,160 --> 01:18:37,880
Solomon's Palace.
So it's referenced a number of

1076
01:18:37,880 --> 01:18:42,440
times in the Bible and, and
historically it's a very durable

1077
01:18:42,440 --> 01:18:47,040
wood.
The trees can be very large and

1078
01:18:47,080 --> 01:18:53,760
and provide a lot of timber.
In the reconstruction of the

1079
01:18:53,760 --> 01:18:59,920
Phoenicia ship replica, we have
the Timbers for the hull, we

1080
01:18:59,920 --> 01:19:04,960
have the Timbers for the keel.
So we have the majority of the

1081
01:19:04,960 --> 01:19:08,880
ship.
However, there were two decks.

1082
01:19:08,880 --> 01:19:13,840
There was a lower deck where the
crew would be able to sleep and

1083
01:19:13,840 --> 01:19:16,960
have their meals and there's an
upper deck that would have been

1084
01:19:16,960 --> 01:19:23,200
exposed to the elements in the
construction of the ship.

1085
01:19:23,200 --> 01:19:27,320
There were those decks were
comprised of pine, which is not

1086
01:19:27,320 --> 01:19:30,240
very durable.
And after 20 odd years and

1087
01:19:30,240 --> 01:19:36,160
30,000 nautical miles exposed to
the elements, the the hull.

1088
01:19:36,160 --> 01:19:40,160
The, the hull was salvageable,
but the the decks were not.

1089
01:19:40,160 --> 01:19:45,000
They deteriorated beyond the
point of, of preservation.

1090
01:19:45,640 --> 01:19:51,080
So we were faced with the
necessity of procuring some type

1091
01:19:51,080 --> 01:19:56,960
of material to construct the
decks of this reconstruction.

1092
01:19:58,960 --> 01:20:05,920
As it turns out, in Iowa, we had
access to a stand of cedar.

1093
01:20:07,280 --> 01:20:10,600
The American cedar trees are not
true cedar.

1094
01:20:10,600 --> 01:20:15,040
They're they're junipers.
So we had access to a stand of

1095
01:20:15,040 --> 01:20:20,040
trees that could have been used
to mill lumber for the decks.

1096
01:20:21,920 --> 01:20:26,200
One of the ways that we see the
hand of God in this this project

1097
01:20:27,360 --> 01:20:32,400
is is gonna be evidenced here we
have a one of the the project

1098
01:20:32,680 --> 01:20:35,040
volunteers is named Mike
Stallman.

1099
01:20:35,040 --> 01:20:41,360
He's from Independence, MO, and
Mike always has his nose in in

1100
01:20:41,360 --> 01:20:44,280
his phone when he's got some
downtime.

1101
01:20:44,280 --> 01:20:47,200
He's always researching
something and knowing that we

1102
01:20:47,200 --> 01:20:52,440
were going to use American Cedar
for the deck of this ship.

1103
01:20:52,840 --> 01:20:57,800
He was researching cedar online
and came across a newspaper

1104
01:20:57,800 --> 01:21:00,840
article from a year.
Or two.

1105
01:21:00,840 --> 01:21:04,640
Before about a cedar of Lebanon
tree.

1106
01:21:04,680 --> 01:21:10,160
A true Cedar of Lebanon tree
that had grown in an Arboretum

1107
01:21:10,360 --> 01:21:16,080
outside Philadelphia, PA.
So, Mike?

1108
01:21:16,120 --> 01:21:20,520
Calls the Arboretum to find out
what happened to the tree and

1109
01:21:20,680 --> 01:21:25,240
the article had described that
the tree had been 180 years old

1110
01:21:26,280 --> 01:21:29,880
at the Arboretum and it had.
It had died.

1111
01:21:29,880 --> 01:21:34,160
It had succumbed to some disease
and had died.

1112
01:21:34,520 --> 01:21:36,360
And so the tree had been taken
down.

1113
01:21:36,360 --> 01:21:40,560
And because it was such a
showpiece at the Arboretum, it

1114
01:21:40,560 --> 01:21:43,840
warranted a newspaper article to
inform people that this this

1115
01:21:43,840 --> 01:21:49,000
tree had had had succumbed so.
Mike.

1116
01:21:49,000 --> 01:21:52,720
Stallman calls the Arboretum and
asks what had happened to the

1117
01:21:52,720 --> 01:21:54,520
tree.
And they said, well, we had to

1118
01:21:54,640 --> 01:21:59,600
dismantle it and remove it from
the Arboretum across the road to

1119
01:21:59,600 --> 01:22:04,400
a vacant area that was owned by
the Arboretum but was not

1120
01:22:04,400 --> 01:22:11,760
actually used for for display.
And so he asked, you know, about

1121
01:22:11,760 --> 01:22:13,560
the, the, the Timbers that were
there.

1122
01:22:13,960 --> 01:22:18,240
And he said that he might have
someone who would be interested

1123
01:22:18,240 --> 01:22:20,040
in it.
So he put John Lofgren in

1124
01:22:20,040 --> 01:22:24,120
contact with the person that
runs the Arboretum and John

1125
01:22:24,120 --> 01:22:26,280
called me.
We only live about an hour and

1126
01:22:26,280 --> 01:22:28,640
15 minutes, hour and a half from
the Arboretum.

1127
01:22:28,640 --> 01:22:33,920
So we went down to the Arboretum
in January a year ago and met

1128
01:22:33,920 --> 01:22:37,960
with the the manager of the
Arboretum named Mike Krakowski

1129
01:22:38,600 --> 01:22:42,920
and told him that we were
interested in that wood.

1130
01:22:44,120 --> 01:22:47,120
What were their plans for it?
He said, well, it's been sitting

1131
01:22:47,120 --> 01:22:49,000
there for a year since we took
the tree down.

1132
01:22:49,000 --> 01:22:51,600
No one's been interested in it.
We thought some woodworkers, you

1133
01:22:51,600 --> 01:22:54,480
know, might have an interest in
this, this rare wood, it's a

1134
01:22:54,480 --> 01:22:56,600
protected species in the Middle
East.

1135
01:22:56,960 --> 01:23:00,240
It is unavailable in any
quantity anywhere.

1136
01:23:02,160 --> 01:23:07,400
So we had the opportunity in
discussing with Mike Kurkowski,

1137
01:23:07,400 --> 01:23:09,440
you know, what project we were
involved with.

1138
01:23:09,440 --> 01:23:12,840
He was very enthused about the,
the, the reconstruction of this

1139
01:23:12,840 --> 01:23:19,600
Venetian ship and the, the, the
possibility of having this

1140
01:23:19,840 --> 01:23:22,720
timber used in the
reconstruction of the ship.

1141
01:23:23,600 --> 01:23:28,000
So we went over and looked at
the Timbers, the the logs, and I

1142
01:23:28,000 --> 01:23:30,960
was measuring, you know,
diameters and lengths to see if

1143
01:23:30,960 --> 01:23:36,320
we had enough potential there
to, to create these decks and

1144
01:23:36,320 --> 01:23:42,960
determined that there was.
John Lefran then made a deal,

1145
01:23:43,880 --> 01:23:45,720
offered a deal.
He said, I'm the president of

1146
01:23:45,720 --> 01:23:53,000
Heartland Research Group and I
am authorized to offer you $5000

1147
01:23:53,000 --> 01:23:57,560
for these logs.
Mike Krakowski had told us that

1148
01:23:57,560 --> 01:24:01,920
it had cost the Arboretum
$12,000 to remove the tree

1149
01:24:01,920 --> 01:24:05,600
because it had to be dismantled,
loaded onto a truck, carted

1150
01:24:05,600 --> 01:24:07,840
across the road, and unloaded
with a crane.

1151
01:24:09,080 --> 01:24:11,960
Some of these, these logs, these
are just the branches of the

1152
01:24:11,960 --> 01:24:16,160
tree, were 20 or more inches in
diameter and 12 or more feet

1153
01:24:16,160 --> 01:24:18,880
long.
So there was probably 2 tractor

1154
01:24:18,880 --> 01:24:24,880
trailer loads of timber there.
Mike Krakowski was silent for a

1155
01:24:24,880 --> 01:24:27,280
moment and he said, John, that's
too much.

1156
01:24:28,560 --> 01:24:31,840
And John just replied.
Well, what do you?

1157
01:24:31,840 --> 01:24:35,400
Think is a fair offer and Mike
Krakowski said how about 3:00?

1158
01:24:36,040 --> 01:24:40,880
So we purchased 2 tractor
trailer loads, probably 50,000

1159
01:24:40,880 --> 01:24:45,320
lbs of Cedar of Lebanon logs for
$3000.

1160
01:24:45,840 --> 01:24:49,320
We transported them.
We loaded them on tractor

1161
01:24:49,320 --> 01:24:53,600
trailers and transported them
out to Donnellson, Iowa, which

1162
01:24:53,600 --> 01:24:58,480
is a community just maybe 20
miles north of Montrose, IA.

1163
01:24:59,040 --> 01:25:04,480
And they're at a lumber mill
there, awaiting to be sawed into

1164
01:25:04,600 --> 01:25:07,560
planks that we can use for the
construction of the depth of the

1165
01:25:07,560 --> 01:25:09,960
Phoenician ship.
Wow.

1166
01:25:11,360 --> 01:25:12,920
This will.
Be not only.

1167
01:25:12,920 --> 01:25:17,880
The world's oldest ship replica
that has crossed an ocean.

1168
01:25:18,600 --> 01:25:25,040
It will be the world's true
cedar of Lebanon.

1169
01:25:25,040 --> 01:25:29,600
Phoenician ship replica.
Come and help us put this

1170
01:25:29,600 --> 01:25:32,480
together.
It will catch the attention of

1171
01:25:32,480 --> 01:25:35,920
millions of people.
We have already made good

1172
01:25:35,920 --> 01:25:38,840
contact with the museum in
Marseille.

1173
01:25:38,880 --> 01:25:41,720
We hope to set up a sister
relationship with them.

1174
01:25:42,320 --> 01:25:47,400
They are the people that own and
display the original shipwreck.

1175
01:25:49,320 --> 01:25:54,440
We have good relations.
With friends in in Carthage and

1176
01:25:54,440 --> 01:25:57,360
we're working with the Lebanese.
The Lebanese group will be

1177
01:25:57,360 --> 01:26:03,720
working on the ship this June.
This is a important part of

1178
01:26:03,720 --> 01:26:10,320
their heritage.
It is big, big and we make room

1179
01:26:10,320 --> 01:26:17,080
for everyone who comes with a.
You know, with goodwill and and

1180
01:26:17,080 --> 01:26:19,560
a willingness.
To to work and and and and to

1181
01:26:19,560 --> 01:26:23,400
discover.
OK, I'm.

1182
01:26:23,400 --> 01:26:27,240
I want to ask a question that I
I want each of you to maybe take

1183
01:26:27,240 --> 01:26:31,360
a crack at answering and.
Even if you end up just

1184
01:26:31,360 --> 01:26:32,920
agreeing.
With someone else, you can just

1185
01:26:32,920 --> 01:26:35,440
say that as well.
But what?

1186
01:26:36,280 --> 01:26:37,680
And we'll start with you here on
this.

1187
01:26:37,680 --> 01:26:40,800
John, what are you?
Hoping is the.

1188
01:26:40,800 --> 01:26:46,440
Outcome of all of this work and
all of this research and the

1189
01:26:46,440 --> 01:26:48,600
replica of the ship and that
sort of things.

1190
01:26:48,600 --> 01:26:52,720
What, what, what, what are your
hopes for this work?

1191
01:26:53,240 --> 01:26:57,280
Here's my hope.
So we have a reception with 120

1192
01:26:57,280 --> 01:27:02,440
people at the ambassador's
residence in Washington, DC This

1193
01:27:02,440 --> 01:27:07,480
was a big and important social
event.

1194
01:27:07,800 --> 01:27:12,360
It was a diplomatic reception.
People from many different

1195
01:27:12,360 --> 01:27:14,440
places, many different
backgrounds.

1196
01:27:14,640 --> 01:27:19,320
Right at the end of that
reception, there was a

1197
01:27:19,320 --> 01:27:20,720
reception.
There was a dinner.

1198
01:27:20,720 --> 01:27:24,240
There's it's, it was very nice.
At the end of the of that

1199
01:27:24,240 --> 01:27:27,720
reception, for about 10 minutes,
we were all happy.

1200
01:27:27,920 --> 01:27:30,480
You know, the pictures were
taken, everything was going on.

1201
01:27:31,560 --> 01:27:36,920
I would love to have that kind
of spirit around the ship.

1202
01:27:37,360 --> 01:27:44,520
We have the ancient world
joining together with the new

1203
01:27:44,520 --> 01:27:46,560
world.
We have many different

1204
01:27:46,560 --> 01:27:50,320
languages, we have many
different traditions, different

1205
01:27:50,320 --> 01:27:52,520
ideas.
It all comes together.

1206
01:27:53,040 --> 01:27:57,160
We agree that this is an
important part of history.

1207
01:27:58,280 --> 01:28:02,360
The the Carthaginians, the
greatness of their empire, the

1208
01:28:02,400 --> 01:28:08,640
Phoenicians, the Lebanese, the
native people of America, the

1209
01:28:08,640 --> 01:28:12,400
Europeans who came to America,
those with faith, those with

1210
01:28:12,400 --> 01:28:14,120
little faith.
It's all there.

1211
01:28:14,120 --> 01:28:19,360
But it is wonderful that we can
come into this space and enjoy

1212
01:28:19,880 --> 01:28:23,040
the connection that we feel
that's.

1213
01:28:23,040 --> 01:28:26,000
What I would like, I'd like.
I would like to move in that

1214
01:28:26,000 --> 01:28:31,280
direction would be we're there.
There's no, there's no orthodoxy

1215
01:28:31,280 --> 01:28:37,240
here.
There is no catechism, it is a a

1216
01:28:37,240 --> 01:28:40,720
pure discovery.
Of truth and.

1217
01:28:40,720 --> 01:28:45,320
Light and we welcome, we welcome
many people with many

1218
01:28:45,320 --> 01:28:50,080
backgrounds, absolutely.
Blaze, we'll move to you.

1219
01:28:50,080 --> 01:28:51,320
How?
How would you answer that

1220
01:28:51,320 --> 01:28:55,120
question?
Well, I.

1221
01:28:55,120 --> 01:28:59,600
Think.
To be involved with a project.

1222
01:28:59,600 --> 01:29:05,240
Of historical significance is a
great privilege to be involved

1223
01:29:05,240 --> 01:29:09,080
with this project, to give my
time and talent, limited as it

1224
01:29:09,200 --> 01:29:15,200
may be, to the reconstruction of
a ship that has sailed 30,000

1225
01:29:15,200 --> 01:29:17,280
nautical miles, crossed two
oceans.

1226
01:29:17,960 --> 01:29:21,240
You know, the, the, the
narrative that is generally

1227
01:29:21,240 --> 01:29:27,240
accepted is that no one had the
technology to cross the Atlantic

1228
01:29:27,240 --> 01:29:32,280
in 600 BC.
And here we have a ship that is

1229
01:29:32,280 --> 01:29:37,240
constructed in manner that it is
proven that it is at least

1230
01:29:37,240 --> 01:29:41,320
possible for the Phoenicians to
have come to America 2000 years

1231
01:29:41,320 --> 01:29:43,440
before Columbus.
That is historically

1232
01:29:43,440 --> 01:29:49,040
significant.
We hope to finish this ship, to

1233
01:29:49,280 --> 01:29:52,880
put it in a museum, to preserve
it because of its historical

1234
01:29:52,880 --> 01:29:57,760
significance, not only to us,
but to the people of the Old

1235
01:29:57,760 --> 01:30:01,120
World, particularly the
Phoenicians, the and their

1236
01:30:01,120 --> 01:30:04,160
descendants.
It'll be historically

1237
01:30:04,160 --> 01:30:07,040
significant to them from a
cultural standpoint.

1238
01:30:07,720 --> 01:30:10,480
So it's a great honor to be
involved with that.

1239
01:30:12,800 --> 01:30:13,320
We.
We.

1240
01:30:13,320 --> 01:30:16,240
Have met some.
Wonderful people you know, in,

1241
01:30:16,320 --> 01:30:18,920
in regards to being involved
with this project that has

1242
01:30:19,000 --> 01:30:22,200
enriched our lives.
Obviously, as a member of the

1243
01:30:22,200 --> 01:30:25,680
Church of Jesus Christ of Latter
Day Saints, I have an interest

1244
01:30:27,760 --> 01:30:33,160
because of the, the, the, the,
the migration of Mulak, who is

1245
01:30:33,160 --> 01:30:37,200
described in the Book of Mormon
as having come from Jerusalem in

1246
01:30:37,200 --> 01:30:41,320
600 BC to the American
continents.

1247
01:30:41,880 --> 01:30:45,840
So to be involved with that kind
of a project, you know, from a

1248
01:30:45,840 --> 01:30:49,160
religious aspect and from a
historical aspect is a great

1249
01:30:49,160 --> 01:30:53,200
privilege.
And we hope to get this into a a

1250
01:30:53,200 --> 01:30:58,880
museum where it can be preserved
for many people and generations

1251
01:30:58,880 --> 01:31:02,160
to come to appreciate that blaze
real quick.

1252
01:31:02,160 --> 01:31:04,240
Just one.
Quick follow up on that and then

1253
01:31:04,240 --> 01:31:07,040
we'll move to Michael here.
You mentioned the story of

1254
01:31:07,040 --> 01:31:09,080
Mulick.
Do you see any parallels or

1255
01:31:09,080 --> 01:31:12,200
similarities there?
Anything that would suggest that

1256
01:31:12,720 --> 01:31:15,840
maybe some of this Phoenician
ship could have anything to do

1257
01:31:15,840 --> 01:31:18,000
with that?
Well, that would.

1258
01:31:18,000 --> 01:31:22,840
Be a question for.
A reach because in their history

1259
01:31:22,840 --> 01:31:26,120
they are aware of a man named
Mulick.

1260
01:31:27,120 --> 01:31:29,840
And so that would be an
interesting topic of

1261
01:31:29,840 --> 01:31:32,560
conversation for you to follow
up with her in another

1262
01:31:32,560 --> 01:31:34,160
interview.
I might have to.

1263
01:31:34,160 --> 01:31:35,520
I might.
Have to do that.

1264
01:31:35,520 --> 01:31:37,040
I we didn't have a chance to do
that.

1265
01:31:37,040 --> 01:31:40,480
We were we were up against time
with Arish and and I was really

1266
01:31:40,480 --> 01:31:43,120
bummed.
But yeah, I definitely want to

1267
01:31:43,120 --> 01:31:46,440
have her back on.
So way to tease that.

1268
01:31:46,440 --> 01:31:48,000
You're a natural, by the way, at
that.

1269
01:31:48,320 --> 01:31:52,800
Good job, Michael.
How how would you answer that

1270
01:31:52,800 --> 01:31:55,040
question?
And if if Betty's there with

1271
01:31:55,040 --> 01:31:57,440
you, she's welcome to answer it
as well if she'd like.

1272
01:31:57,800 --> 01:32:02,320
Well, it's it's a.
Little bit complicated.

1273
01:32:02,720 --> 01:32:07,480
From what I see.
Just like the Romans destroy.

1274
01:32:07,480 --> 01:32:12,000
The Phoenicians and erase them
from history, pretty much.

1275
01:32:12,040 --> 01:32:15,880
And.
Basically rewrote the history as

1276
01:32:16,600 --> 01:32:20,880
natives Betty and I, we see the
same thing happened to us.

1277
01:32:20,880 --> 01:32:25,320
You know our our cultural.
Civilization has.

1278
01:32:25,320 --> 01:32:28,600
Been somewhat.
Destroyed and and.

1279
01:32:28,600 --> 01:32:32,360
Rewrote history's been rewrote.
They tell us who discovered

1280
01:32:32,360 --> 01:32:35,320
America.
They tell us where we came from,

1281
01:32:35,320 --> 01:32:38,840
how we got here.
So I would like to see this.

1282
01:32:39,200 --> 01:32:44,440
I would like to see the real
history of America, the

1283
01:32:44,440 --> 01:32:45,880
discoveries.
Of America.

1284
01:32:46,560 --> 01:32:50,040
The Native Americans, the
different peoples who have come

1285
01:32:50,040 --> 01:32:53,040
here and.
And I would just like.

1286
01:32:53,040 --> 01:32:57,840
To see the truth to come out.
So that people can know who

1287
01:32:57,840 --> 01:32:59,920
what?
And where and where it happened,

1288
01:33:00,240 --> 01:33:03,800
that's what I'd like to see.
Fantastic.

1289
01:33:04,320 --> 01:33:08,760
Fantastic.
Well, let me just check

1290
01:33:08,760 --> 01:33:12,360
something real quick here Arish,
I see your phone is still on.

1291
01:33:12,360 --> 01:33:14,600
Are you still there?
OK, she must have went ahead and

1292
01:33:14,600 --> 01:33:17,280
dropped off and just for didn't
end the call with us.

1293
01:33:17,280 --> 01:33:20,680
But one might have to get her
back on here and talk about

1294
01:33:20,680 --> 01:33:22,200
Mulick.
That's super fascinating.

1295
01:33:22,200 --> 01:33:24,560
Yes, I still.
You're still here?

1296
01:33:24,920 --> 01:33:25,840
Yes, Dave.
I.

1297
01:33:26,920 --> 01:33:31,000
I'm still here, I still, I still
hear the conversation, the

1298
01:33:31,000 --> 01:33:35,480
interview back in, in very noisy
place.

1299
01:33:35,480 --> 01:33:38,560
And This is why I could not
interact with you.

1300
01:33:38,800 --> 01:33:42,920
No, that's OK.
Do you think that you could tell

1301
01:33:42,920 --> 01:33:47,880
us a little bit about, about
your, your knowledge of Munich?

1302
01:33:47,880 --> 01:33:51,000
It sounds like that, that
there's a that's a name over

1303
01:33:51,000 --> 01:33:52,920
there in, in Tunisia.
Is that correct?

1304
01:33:55,760 --> 01:33:58,880
So for.
For for me, the first time I

1305
01:33:58,880 --> 01:34:04,400
knew about Munich is, is when I
went to America and when I met

1306
01:34:05,480 --> 01:34:10,720
all the guys and when they told
me the story of Murek.

1307
01:34:12,120 --> 01:34:17,320
It sounds like familiar with me
because in Tunisia we have we

1308
01:34:17,320 --> 01:34:21,400
have a lot of guys who whose
name is Malik.

1309
01:34:21,520 --> 01:34:26,280
Malik and Murek have the same
Racine so as I.

1310
01:34:26,280 --> 01:34:29,240
Knew a little.
Bit more about the story of

1311
01:34:29,240 --> 01:34:38,640
Murek say to all of the group
that nearly cannot reach America

1312
01:34:38,640 --> 01:34:42,720
without passing by Tunisia by
carpet by Gerba because at that

1313
01:34:42,720 --> 01:34:51,520
time at 600 PCA lot of Hebrew
people plead also Jerusalem and

1314
01:34:52,120 --> 01:34:58,800
established in in Gerba and we
still have a big community very

1315
01:34:58,800 --> 01:35:05,240
important community, Jewish
community in Djerba who are who

1316
01:35:05,240 --> 01:35:09,640
came from Jerusalem from that
time and they still leave until

1317
01:35:09,640 --> 01:35:16,160
now.
So for for me, Mueller cannot,

1318
01:35:16,280 --> 01:35:21,800
cannot go from Jerusalem
directly to America without

1319
01:35:21,800 --> 01:35:26,720
making some stops.
And the stop who can make the

1320
01:35:26,720 --> 01:35:33,880
first step, who can make is for
sure Kartish and Gerba, because

1321
01:35:34,280 --> 01:35:40,120
maybe the as I think, I think
that the Jewish community who

1322
01:35:40,120 --> 01:35:45,960
was there at that moment, for
sure they will protect Murek.

1323
01:35:48,120 --> 01:35:51,240
And they could not.
Also reach America without

1324
01:35:52,280 --> 01:35:55,840
specialist navigator from
Carthage, because at that time

1325
01:35:56,280 --> 01:36:00,520
only the Carthaginian, the
Phoenician Carthaginian was able

1326
01:36:00,520 --> 01:36:07,960
to to to travel across, across
across in the the Atlantic.

1327
01:36:08,400 --> 01:36:13,280
This is my point of.
View about the story.

1328
01:36:13,280 --> 01:36:19,920
Of Munich and yesterday I was
with a friend of mine who is a

1329
01:36:20,040 --> 01:36:25,040
Jewish from Tunis and his mother
from the South of Tunisia

1330
01:36:25,040 --> 01:36:29,120
between Gerba and another place
and he said to me that last year

1331
01:36:29,120 --> 01:36:36,520
a lot a group of Mormons cancer
asked him of database to they

1332
01:36:36,560 --> 01:36:41,240
wanted to buy a database of the
Jewish and the oldest Jewish of

1333
01:36:41,560 --> 01:36:45,920
of Tunisia and he never
understand why and I told him

1334
01:36:45,960 --> 01:36:48,040
about this story and he was
very.

1335
01:36:50,040 --> 01:36:55,080
He was like.
Fascinated and I also I didn't

1336
01:36:55,080 --> 01:37:00,920
know that Mormons come into
Tunisia to look after the Jewish

1337
01:37:00,920 --> 01:37:06,920
people of Tunisia so for me it's
it's makes sense so this story

1338
01:37:07,120 --> 01:37:15,440
and as you know as the religion
and history it's they go

1339
01:37:15,440 --> 01:37:20,480
together so when you understand
the history you can you can

1340
01:37:20,520 --> 01:37:25,720
understand a little bit the the
religion and the religion also

1341
01:37:25,720 --> 01:37:35,240
based on history things history
story stories so it's it's makes

1342
01:37:35,240 --> 01:37:40,200
it it's like it's a couple I
think it's like a couple so.

1343
01:37:42,360 --> 01:37:45,520
And and Arish, what do you hope?
And thank you for sharing that.

1344
01:37:45,520 --> 01:37:50,200
That's fascinating stuff.
Real quick, Arish, what, what's

1345
01:37:50,200 --> 01:37:54,240
your hope in, in doing all this
work when you know, years from

1346
01:37:54,240 --> 01:37:57,640
now, when you look back on on
this period of, of working, what

1347
01:37:57,640 --> 01:37:59,640
do you hope to look back on and
see?

1348
01:37:59,960 --> 01:38:01,880
What do you hope this work
accomplishes?

1349
01:38:03,120 --> 01:38:08,240
Yes.
What I hope is to to interest

1350
01:38:08,400 --> 01:38:12,520
more, more and more and more
people, and especially also

1351
01:38:12,520 --> 01:38:17,160
young people, because, you know,
actually young people are not

1352
01:38:21,120 --> 01:38:24,600
there's not a lot of people who
are interested in history and

1353
01:38:24,600 --> 01:38:29,480
culture and for future
generation is very important for

1354
01:38:29,480 --> 01:38:32,360
us as North African and for
American.

1355
01:38:32,400 --> 01:38:39,360
It's it's it's very important to
say that the human ways is mixed

1356
01:38:39,360 --> 01:38:42,440
and connected.
And this is very important

1357
01:38:42,440 --> 01:38:47,160
because it's a it's highlight
the love, the connection, the,

1358
01:38:47,560 --> 01:38:52,360
you know, it's the peace, you
know, it's against war, against

1359
01:38:52,480 --> 01:38:56,960
hatred.
So this is very important for

1360
01:38:56,960 --> 01:39:00,240
us.
The museum is very important for

1361
01:39:00,240 --> 01:39:04,120
us.
The story of Phoenicia Ship is a

1362
01:39:04,120 --> 01:39:13,400
pool of a good part of human
being from from more than 2000

1363
01:39:13,400 --> 01:39:18,280
years, you know, So this, I
think this is very important.

1364
01:39:18,280 --> 01:39:25,960
And I hope to see the Phoenicia
Ship Museum as big, big museum

1365
01:39:26,320 --> 01:39:33,880
who receive a lot of people who
not want to know more about the

1366
01:39:33,920 --> 01:39:38,960
history of Americans and for
sure the history of the Old

1367
01:39:38,960 --> 01:39:41,080
World.
For North America and for the

1368
01:39:41,160 --> 01:39:45,120
South Shore of the
Mediterranean, absolutely.

1369
01:39:45,600 --> 01:39:50,880
Arisha that was beautifully said
as as I look at all this,

1370
01:39:51,320 --> 01:39:54,560
there's a couple of things and
and I think what Arisha said and

1371
01:39:54,560 --> 01:39:57,680
what what John has said is, is
true, right?

1372
01:39:59,240 --> 01:40:00,520
Sometimes.
We.

1373
01:40:00,520 --> 01:40:04,520
Focus way too much on our
differences between one society

1374
01:40:04,520 --> 01:40:06,360
to another, one person to
another.

1375
01:40:07,000 --> 01:40:09,880
And the truth is, is I think
we're all way more closely

1376
01:40:09,880 --> 01:40:11,880
connected than any of us really
know.

1377
01:40:12,960 --> 01:40:20,640
And as Arish said, understanding
that, you know, we are way, way

1378
01:40:20,640 --> 01:40:24,440
more closely to, you know,
related that that we, we do have

1379
01:40:24,440 --> 01:40:29,000
common threads that connect us.
That's huge because all of a

1380
01:40:29,000 --> 01:40:33,040
sudden you, you've established a
type of kinship and, and that

1381
01:40:33,040 --> 01:40:36,240
can go a long ways in, in
understanding one another and

1382
01:40:36,240 --> 01:40:39,440
and learning from one another.
The.

1383
01:40:39,440 --> 01:40:45,480
Other thing from.
Just a purely scientific.

1384
01:40:45,480 --> 01:40:48,200
Point of view.
Or or historical point of view.

1385
01:40:48,840 --> 01:40:52,600
There are times as as I've
traveled around the country and

1386
01:40:52,600 --> 01:40:54,440
I've been to a lot of different
states.

1387
01:40:54,800 --> 01:40:58,800
Not quite all of them, but I'm
getting close and spent time.

1388
01:40:58,800 --> 01:41:01,960
In each of them.
In my career as a land surveyor,

1389
01:41:03,080 --> 01:41:06,920
I, I got to explore a lot of
different areas and saw some

1390
01:41:06,920 --> 01:41:10,240
things that quite frankly just
didn't fit established

1391
01:41:10,240 --> 01:41:14,600
narratives.
And when, when these things

1392
01:41:14,600 --> 01:41:18,120
begin to come to light, it's
super important that they get

1393
01:41:18,120 --> 01:41:22,360
pushed forward so that we can
have a, a correct understanding

1394
01:41:22,360 --> 01:41:26,200
of, of who we are, a correct
understanding of, of who the

1395
01:41:26,200 --> 01:41:31,360
indigenous peoples were here in
America and, and just continue

1396
01:41:31,360 --> 01:41:37,680
to foster that.
Arish gentlemen, is, is there is

1397
01:41:37,680 --> 01:41:40,600
there anything else that that we
didn't cover that you guys want

1398
01:41:40,600 --> 01:41:43,200
to want to add in before we wrap
up here?

1399
01:41:44,440 --> 01:41:47,000
Dave, we.
Appreciate what you're doing.

1400
01:41:47,640 --> 01:41:52,960
This is a big and very complex
story and it needs people out

1401
01:41:52,960 --> 01:41:55,000
there are telling it in
different ways.

1402
01:41:55,520 --> 01:42:00,600
Your job now is to put together
something a week from now so

1403
01:42:00,600 --> 01:42:06,600
that maybe as many as 10,000 or
more, we'll we'll take notice.

1404
01:42:06,840 --> 01:42:08,360
What do you think?
Can you do it?

1405
01:42:09,600 --> 01:42:11,120
I have.
No doubt that, people.

1406
01:42:11,120 --> 01:42:15,680
Will look at this John that's
not that's not an issue we.

1407
01:42:15,680 --> 01:42:19,040
Give it freely because.
You know this is.

1408
01:42:21,080 --> 01:42:25,080
What's remarkable here is the.
Amount of effort and money that

1409
01:42:25,080 --> 01:42:30,040
has been put on the altar, it's
it's really amazing that we have

1410
01:42:30,040 --> 01:42:34,400
been able to do what we've done
with so few dollars.

1411
01:42:34,800 --> 01:42:38,360
But we have the talent.
We have the talent and we have a

1412
01:42:38,360 --> 01:42:41,040
goal.
We invite everyone of goodwill

1413
01:42:41,040 --> 01:42:45,240
to come and join us.
Anyone who has been working with

1414
01:42:45,240 --> 01:42:50,720
us for two years is not going to
be, has not been disappointed.

1415
01:42:51,720 --> 01:42:55,280
Mike, Are you ready to take
anybody at the at the gift shop

1416
01:42:55,280 --> 01:42:57,600
or at the museum?
Yeah.

1417
01:42:58,040 --> 01:43:02,560
I mean, yeah, we're ready.
We're ready for.

1418
01:43:02,560 --> 01:43:08,520
Anything we're we're handling as
many as 1000 people a month.

1419
01:43:08,520 --> 01:43:14,040
So we got a Lebanese is a
Lebanese tour youth group and

1420
01:43:14,320 --> 01:43:17,520
American school kids.
They're coming on June 8th.

1421
01:43:18,400 --> 01:43:20,920
Yeah, so it's gonna.
That's gonna be pretty cool

1422
01:43:20,920 --> 01:43:23,160
'cause that's gonna be a
cultural exchange between the

1423
01:43:23,160 --> 01:43:25,080
two for three or four days we
have.

1424
01:43:25,360 --> 01:43:27,880
Firesides on the.
Mississippi River, where we'll

1425
01:43:28,360 --> 01:43:30,840
get together and share cultural
experiences.

1426
01:43:30,840 --> 01:43:33,880
We're going to have a dance in
the local with the local

1427
01:43:33,880 --> 01:43:36,600
community where they'll share
their way to dance and of

1428
01:43:36,600 --> 01:43:39,400
course, American.
Way of dance?

1429
01:43:39,400 --> 01:43:40,640
I don't know.
How that's going to go?

1430
01:43:40,640 --> 01:43:45,520
But I guess we can show them the
the the some square dance or

1431
01:43:45,520 --> 01:43:48,320
something like that.
But that's going to be very

1432
01:43:48,320 --> 01:43:51,720
interesting.
So we are prepared to handle

1433
01:43:51,720 --> 01:43:56,320
whoever comes and we can modify
or edit.

1434
01:43:57,480 --> 01:43:59,280
How about native?
Americans.

1435
01:44:01,640 --> 01:44:03,200
Well, we got two Native
Americans.

1436
01:44:03,200 --> 01:44:08,360
Running the place and of course
we invite, we invite others to

1437
01:44:08,360 --> 01:44:12,600
come.
We, we have contacts with some

1438
01:44:12,600 --> 01:44:14,600
that we're going to hope they're
going to come by this summer

1439
01:44:14,600 --> 01:44:20,480
and, and, and meet with us and
join us in this big adventure.

1440
01:44:22,160 --> 01:44:27,320
Fantastic.
All right, Arish, thank you so

1441
01:44:27,320 --> 01:44:30,040
much for coming on the podcast.
I can't tell you how much I

1442
01:44:30,040 --> 01:44:33,440
enjoyed it.
Thank you, Dave.

1443
01:44:34,560 --> 01:44:39,320
Hey, thank you a lot for
inviting me and for your

1444
01:44:39,320 --> 01:44:42,120
interest to to our project
together.

1445
01:44:42,120 --> 01:44:48,960
So I hope that your audience
will enjoy our interview.

1446
01:44:49,640 --> 01:44:56,600
I want also to thank John, Mike,
Lafontaine, Betty and Blaze, and

1447
01:44:56,680 --> 01:45:00,480
Georgia Can Americans.
Come to Tunisia.

1448
01:45:00,600 --> 01:45:03,920
Can we come to Tunisia to
discover for ourselves?

1449
01:45:06,120 --> 01:45:11,640
They are more than welcome.
Yeah, we will.

1450
01:45:11,720 --> 01:45:14,840
We will.
Enlarge upon this.

1451
01:45:15,840 --> 01:45:18,440
We appreciate Arish and what she
has done.

1452
01:45:18,440 --> 01:45:23,640
She has really given so much
energy and without her the whole

1453
01:45:23,640 --> 01:45:26,400
flavor would would be kind of
planned.

1454
01:45:26,840 --> 01:45:27,960
Absolutely.
We appreciate.

1455
01:45:28,200 --> 01:45:30,560
We appreciate what you
represent.

1456
01:45:32,120 --> 01:45:35,280
Thank you.
Everyone, thank you, John.

1457
01:45:35,840 --> 01:45:36,400
Thank you.
Yes.

1458
01:45:37,120 --> 01:45:39,560
Georgia, you've been watching
this.

1459
01:45:39,560 --> 01:45:43,360
Give us your last word here.
She looks angelic.

1460
01:45:43,360 --> 01:45:45,120
Turn on your.
Mic, I know.

1461
01:45:46,520 --> 01:45:49,200
There you go.
I said you guys have done a

1462
01:45:49,200 --> 01:45:50,520
great.
Job of covering everything.

1463
01:45:50,520 --> 01:45:52,880
It's just been fun being
involved in it and that's it.

1464
01:45:52,880 --> 01:45:57,800
So thank you for thank you,
Georgia.

1465
01:45:58,640 --> 01:46:02,880
All right, John, one last time.
Where can people go to donate

1466
01:46:03,440 --> 01:46:08,160
The best place to go?
Is online Phoenicia dot rocks.

1467
01:46:08,360 --> 01:46:12,800
There's a donate button.
Hit that button and just open up

1468
01:46:12,800 --> 01:46:15,040
your credit card.
Perfect.

1469
01:46:15,360 --> 01:46:19,000
I'll, I'll in the In this
episode's show notes, I'll

1470
01:46:19,000 --> 01:46:24,200
include a link to $10 a month.
On a reoccurring basis is is

1471
01:46:24,200 --> 01:46:28,320
wonderful.
We've had about 3700 small

1472
01:46:28,320 --> 01:46:32,320
donors and about two dozen large
donors.

1473
01:46:32,320 --> 01:46:35,280
We've gone through a lot of
money and we are looking for

1474
01:46:35,280 --> 01:46:37,600
more.
Fantastic, fantastic.

1475
01:46:37,840 --> 01:46:41,800
And if someone wants to
volunteer is, is that the same

1476
01:46:41,800 --> 01:46:47,160
place they can go there?
For sure Mike Lafontaine and his

1477
01:46:47,160 --> 01:46:50,640
wife Nancy are managing that
starting up in about a month

1478
01:46:51,200 --> 01:46:54,280
we'll be going full time come
Betty is the name.

1479
01:46:54,440 --> 01:46:59,840
I'm sorry.
Mike and Betty Lafontaine are

1480
01:46:59,840 --> 01:47:04,320
managing that fantastic the.
The reoccurring.

1481
01:47:04,320 --> 01:47:06,560
Donations is what keeps the shop
going.

1482
01:47:07,040 --> 01:47:10,440
You know, if you could do a $10
a month reoccurring donation

1483
01:47:10,440 --> 01:47:13,840
that, that, you know, skip a Big
Mac once a day.

1484
01:47:14,040 --> 01:47:18,600
Well, actually it's a half a Big
Mac Mac with the inflation now,

1485
01:47:18,600 --> 01:47:23,200
but that keeps us, that keeps
the shop going, keeps the, the

1486
01:47:23,200 --> 01:47:27,280
wheels greased and that
reoccurring generation is a is a

1487
01:47:27,280 --> 01:47:29,200
big thing for us.
So we'd appreciate that.

1488
01:47:29,800 --> 01:47:32,760
Fantastic.
All right, gentlemen.

1489
01:47:33,120 --> 01:47:34,360
Arish, thank you.
Thank you.

1490
01:47:34,360 --> 01:47:36,960
David here.
This has been an absolute.

1491
01:47:36,960 --> 01:47:39,920
Blast.
And I I mean, I mean what I say,

1492
01:47:39,920 --> 01:47:42,160
once you've been on, once you
got a standing invitation to

1493
01:47:42,160 --> 01:47:46,320
come back on anytime you'd like.
As you guys continue to move

1494
01:47:46,320 --> 01:47:49,280
forward with things, don't
hesitate to reach out.

1495
01:47:49,320 --> 01:47:50,920
Let me know.
Hey, there's some stuff that

1496
01:47:50,920 --> 01:47:53,880
we've discovered that we'd like
to, you know, get out in front.

1497
01:47:54,040 --> 01:47:57,920
Dave, Dave, it's real simple.
We want you in Montrose sometime

1498
01:47:57,920 --> 01:47:59,840
this summer.
I will be there.

1499
01:47:59,880 --> 01:48:03,000
We will.
I, I will come down there, maybe

1500
01:48:03,000 --> 01:48:09,160
we'll do a, a live event, you
know, and then we can, we can do

1501
01:48:09,160 --> 01:48:11,840
that.
So we'll all, look, I just moved

1502
01:48:11,840 --> 01:48:14,360
to Missouri.
I got time to go explore and

1503
01:48:14,360 --> 01:48:16,320
everything else.
And you guys aren't that far

1504
01:48:16,320 --> 01:48:18,720
from us.
So we've already been to Nauvoo

1505
01:48:18,720 --> 01:48:21,240
a couple of times.
So we'll just do the extra

1506
01:48:21,240 --> 01:48:24,160
couple miles and head to
Montrose and we'll, we'll do

1507
01:48:24,160 --> 01:48:27,520
something there for sure.
So yeah, well, don't be

1508
01:48:27,520 --> 01:48:29,800
surprised if Betty and I.
Give you a call when they live

1509
01:48:29,800 --> 01:48:34,240
from Phoenicia And do I give you
a virtual tour of around the

1510
01:48:34,240 --> 01:48:36,560
ship and around the the gift
shop?

1511
01:48:37,280 --> 01:48:39,240
Absolutely.
Absolutely.

1512
01:48:39,600 --> 01:48:42,480
We love that.
So, all right, thank you for

1513
01:48:42,480 --> 01:48:44,600
your time, Arish.
Thank you so much for.

1514
01:48:44,600 --> 01:48:47,400
Coming on.
And yeah, keep us abreast about

1515
01:48:47,400 --> 01:48:48,400
what happens.
All right.

1516
01:48:49,200 --> 01:48:50,120
Thank you.
All right.

1517
01:48:50,120 --> 01:48:51,320
Sounds good.
See you, Blaze.

1518
01:48:51,320 --> 01:48:53,040
See you, John.
Good to see you, Gary.

1519
01:48:53,040 --> 01:48:54,720
Thanks for your time.
All right, bye.

1520
01:48:54,720 --> 01:48:56,800
Everybody have a great.
Sabbath.

1521
01:48:59,760 --> 01:48:59,840
The.