Episode #108: Seer Stones & Seership W/Kevin Kraut

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There are so many cool things
about Mormonism, plurality of

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gods, priesthood, ascension of
godhood, temple ordinances, and

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on and on it goes.
Perhaps one of the most

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misunderstood of these are seer
stones.

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Many a Mormon has become a
little freaked out about the

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topic, and understandably so.
I mean, it's not like it's out

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there floating in the Christian
vernacular a whole bunch.

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Nonetheless, we know that Joseph
Smith used one, as did Brigham

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Young, so there's certainly
something to it, and it deserves

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our attention.
On this episode, I have Kevin

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Kraut back on the podcast to
talk about this very subject,

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and I can't think of a better
guy for it.

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I mean, his dad literally wrote
the book on the subject.

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We cover the biblical history of
seer stones, the use of them by

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Joseph Smith and other early
Mormon leaders, and from there

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we have a conversation about how
they were used and how they fit

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into the restored gospel of
Jesus Christ.

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That and more on this episode of
the Mormon Renegade Podcast.

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Look, it's no secret that our
society has become much more

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crude and coarse.
To become and raise men and

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women of virtue and character is
a Herculean task.

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To help with this, I've recently
wrote and published a book.

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Now, back in the 1700s,
Washington had a book called

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Rules of Civility and Decent
Behavior and Company and

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Conversation.
It was a book with 110 rules

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that talked about how to conduct
yourself like a civilized person

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in society, something that
today's society is sorely

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lacking.
What I did is I went back

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through the book and I
reinterpreted his original

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sayings for the 21st century.
So the book is laid out in a way

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in which you see Washington's
original rule.

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Right below that is my
explanation for the 21st

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century, and below that you'll
find two or three examples of

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where to use this in the real
world.

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Now, to go along with this,
there's a workbook that helps

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parents teach these principles
and practices to their kids.

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To find the book, go to
mormonrenegade.com, go to the

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bottom of the page, search out
the blog post, and order your

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copy.
Today, I can bear personal

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testimony from personal
experience that this is an

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invaluable tool to help you
raise men and women of virtue

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and character.
OK, just a couple of quick

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announcements here.
If you're looking for a place to

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attend sacrament meeting and
don't know where to go, I want

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you to reach out to me, me and
other stand ready to help you

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find a spiritual home, whether
that's a new church, a gathering

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spot of independence, or even if
you just need a soft place to

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land for a time to learn how to
have sacrament meeting in your

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own home.
Myself and others stand ready to

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help you find that place.
All you got to do is just drop

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me a line at
mormonrenegade@gmail.com and

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we'll quickly reach out to you
to help you find the place you

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want and need to be next.
I have felt for a while now that

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the sisters haven't had a good
place to go to have their

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questions answered without a
bunch of dudes creeping around

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to fill this need.
My wife, Tanya has set up a

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Facebook group just for women to
talk about questions about

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fundamentalism.
The name of that group is Mormon

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Fundamentalism for Women.
Now just a warning, if you're a

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dude thinking about trying to
jump on this site, I'm going to

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give this to you in my best Liam
Neeson impression.

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I have a certain set of skills,
and I'll find you and I will

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publicly mock you endlessly
without mercy for many, many

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weeks.
So whether you're a

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fundamentalist woman seeking
sisterhood or a woman

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investigating fundamentalism,
this place is for you again.

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The name of that Facebook group
is Mormon Fundamentalism for

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Women.
You're listening to the Mormon

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Renegade Podcast, Kevin.
How's it going, man?

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Good.
Good business.

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You've been staying busy.
Very busy Christmas time.

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Everything's happening.
Dude, that store.

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I swear, every time I go in
there, you guys just are busier

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and busier and it's just nuts to
see and and it's a good thing,

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right, 'cause you're, I mean,
those books that your dad wrote

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and all the information he had
has just been, I mean, certainly

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to me has been an invaluable
resource and I can't imagine so

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good on you guys for keeping
that going.

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Yeah, it's been, it's been quite
a project, you know.

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Real quick, I'll just tell this
quick story, Dad, in the

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beginning of of all of this, he
had an Angel that came through a

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window and showed him this big
huge book like The history of of

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Utah, Whitney's said.
It was about maybe two to three

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inches thick.
And anyway, he opened the book

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and had all these different
topics and Dad looked at it and

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he thought, did I write these?
And the Angel kind of nodded,

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said Yep you you're going to
write these.

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And then the Angel shut the book
and out the window we went you

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know and and in his little write
up he says it was a dream and I

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asked him about that and he he
said well it it was definitely a

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real thing and so so anyway so
he he had we had worked on this.

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We created a a hardback version
of his books that was you know

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the big green ones like this.
And signed to the nation.

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We did a paperback book set like
this and now we have all the

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index and everything finished.
It's all done, ready to go to

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print as of about two weeks ago.
And so now what we're doing is

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we're going to put it into that
big three inch book and it's

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going to be on Bible paper.
And so that'll all be under one

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cover, which is what my dad saw.
And we'll finish that whole

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project.
Been a very, very long project.

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Yep.
So this will be a completion of

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your dad's work then?
Yeah, it's it should be the

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final, final thing and that's
what he that's what he hoped

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for.
He even showed me what kind of

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you know, that he wanted in a
certain green color and all that

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kind of stuff And so, so we're
here.

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We're ready to go.
When do you think that thing

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will be available for for sale?
I don't know.

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Our problem is we got to get
financing.

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The only place is this is an
irony, 'cause I got to checking

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around where do you get a Bible
printed?

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You know, and there's really
basically two or three main

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spots and one was one is
ironically the largest place

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that produces Bibles is in
China, Communist China.

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They won't, they won't let
anybody read them or anything.

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Huge amount of Bibles come out
of there.

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There's a few that are printed
in India and and some in Russia

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in a sort of the sort.
So we're trying to get something

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in, in Russia maybe.
But the only other place that I

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found when I call back East and
talk to them, the only other

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place is the LDS Church.
Oh, wow.

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And I'm guessing they're not
lining up at your door to print

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books, Yeah?
I don't know if we're going to

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get them to print our work.
I.

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Never know though, you know all
the people dropping out of the

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church, maybe they'd maybe it
might inspire people to stay

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there or something.
Nibley once, Nibley once said.

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Your father Barnan, your father
has saved more people from anti

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Mormonism than anybody I know.
Well, yeah.

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And and and you know, Nibbley
was right on that.

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Because I remember when I was
coming into fundamentalism, what

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you would get is you would get
little snippets, right?

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That sounded really horrible if
it was just that one little

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snippet, right.
And there was no context given.

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And I just, I think the Lord
every day that that that one, I

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was kind of born with a nose for
BS, right.

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So I I was always a bit
skeptical and I could be like,

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OK, that seems pretty weird that
he would say just that, right?

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So then I'd have to go search
for context and and it was your

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dad's books that that really put
a lot of that into context.

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So all of a sudden that one
little snippet when put into the

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context of everything isn't so
spooky.

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It's not so far out.
And and I think that's a great

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segue into what we're going to
talk about tonight, which is

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seer stones and seer ship,
right.

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Right.
There there is when when people

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think of seer stones and stuff,
their mind automatically goes to

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like the occult, right?
It it's not something that that

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certainly mainstream
Christianity and I'd say most

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active LDS folks have a lot of
knowledge on, right?

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And so it seems a bit spooky.
It seems a bit out-of-the-box,

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right?
Why is this prophet of God using

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seer stones?
But I think, as we'll see

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tonight, this actually gets
started well before Joseph

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Smith, right?
This actually is something we

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can find in the Old Testament.
Is that right?

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Sure.
You got the ephod with the 12

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Stones on it.
Those were all seer stones.

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The priest and the temple, he
had that.

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And you know they all that.
Different stones, different,

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representing different tribes.
Judas was blue and there were

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others that were there.
Yeah, representing different

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things actually.
Actually it may not have been,

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may not have been because the
the Judah was a diamond, believe

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it or not.
So it may have been a bluish

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diamond, I'm not sure.
But there were other other

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representations of the different
tribes, all 12 tribes that that

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represented that he had power
over all and they were all seer

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stones he could use for
different purposes.

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Right.
And and when Joseph had the

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spectacles that that were
translating, even though they

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were, they were spectacles, they
were they still had stones in

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them, right?
It wasn't like glass.

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They were they were like clear
stones, right.

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And and am I understanding that
correctly?

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That is correct, yeah.
And and we know that the Urim

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and Thummim is talked about in
the Old Testament as well.

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So we we have this heritage
certainly within the

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Judeo-christian tradition and
this seems to come forward even

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more when when Joseph Smith
begins to unveil the revelation

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restoration.
Excuse me, but he was using seer

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stones even before he received
the plates or or got angelic

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visitations.
Is that right?

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Yeah.
What was he using it for at that

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time?
Well, I think he used it for

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multiple things.
But and there may have been some

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of the research that I'm I'm
digging into now may have

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indicated that he had stones
that have been passed down, you

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know, so there may have been,
you know, it wasn't just found

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in that day.
There may have been stones that

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he had or had come across that
have been around for many

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generations.
And and so we're going to see

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how that works out.
But he was trying to find

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treasure.
He was trying to find gold.

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I mean that was a common thing
back in the day.

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I mean even right now in our
world, I I'm, I'm down here in

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near Eureka and everybody around
here in their pastime goes out

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looking for you know gold or or
a cave or something you know and

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and so especially with gold
going up as high as it is, it

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is, it is getting more and more
that way.

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Right.
At what point does does Joseph

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stop using it for those purposes
and then begin to start using it

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in terms of the restoration?
What?

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What happens?
Well, I I would think that was

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around the time that the Book of
Mormon came and then he had the

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urban thumb and he needed to
translate the Book of Mormon.

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But I go ahead.
So I I think there's other time.

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I mean, he was using him all
along, so maybe he even used it

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to to locate other places, maybe
where he should pray, where what

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he should do, I don't know.
So how how do seer stones work?

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I mean, it's one thing to hear
about someone using them, but we

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don't have a whole bunch of
information about how they do

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work, right?
How?

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How that procedure runs?
If if you were to.

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I grew up around Native
Americans in southern Arizona

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when I went to school and other
places there.

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There are a lot of Indians
there.

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And so I had a real curiosity.
I love stones and rocks.

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There's a whole story here of
how I came into being with

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Joseph Smith Seer stone when I
was younger.

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We'll go into that later, But
let me let me explain how the

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Seer stone can work so it works.
Any kind of revelation works

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upon the same ways.
If you were to have an open

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vision like Joseph Smith had and
and you know says those are very

225
00:13:47,880 --> 00:13:51,600
rare, you know, you just don't
see that very often.

226
00:13:52,360 --> 00:13:55,880
But an open vision could be
something that you could look

227
00:13:55,880 --> 00:13:58,560
into a stone and it could
actually open up.

228
00:14:00,000 --> 00:14:04,200
I've had one experience where it
opened like that not very long.

229
00:14:04,200 --> 00:14:07,840
It was just quick and it was
kind of like a burst and I saw

230
00:14:07,840 --> 00:14:11,480
things.
But for the most part, most

231
00:14:11,480 --> 00:14:16,800
people and the Native Americans
talk about holding the stones or

232
00:14:16,800 --> 00:14:19,160
some people look into them.
Some people look off in the

233
00:14:19,160 --> 00:14:25,160
distance a stone when they hold
it, as they said, it's, it's an

234
00:14:25,200 --> 00:14:30,080
earthy thing and the earth holds
the records of everything.

235
00:14:30,680 --> 00:14:35,920
And so you're holding this stone
and it kind of, it kind of is a,

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00:14:36,680 --> 00:14:40,840
it's kind of a crutch kind of
helps you to have that on your

237
00:14:40,840 --> 00:14:45,080
own.
And and so a lot of the Indians,

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00:14:45,080 --> 00:14:47,640
they would, they would just sit
there or hold their stone or

239
00:14:47,640 --> 00:14:50,760
they had a little bag that had
the stone in it right in their

240
00:14:50,760 --> 00:14:56,120
chest and they had a little bit
more ability connecting to the

241
00:14:56,120 --> 00:14:58,440
earth or connecting to how that
works.

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00:14:58,760 --> 00:15:03,680
So they said and and how I
learned was that this is the

243
00:15:03,680 --> 00:15:08,480
third eye and you would start
seeing things in your mind's

244
00:15:08,480 --> 00:15:12,720
eye.
And so I used to teach people

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00:15:13,160 --> 00:15:15,200
this.
I had a young lady come one of

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00:15:15,200 --> 00:15:16,800
the first times I kind of tried
to teach.

247
00:15:17,160 --> 00:15:20,120
She came to my house, Her
husband was doing a website on

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00:15:20,120 --> 00:15:25,240
seer stones and and he was kind
of new age.

249
00:15:25,240 --> 00:15:28,480
And so he had some, you know,
background in some of this and

250
00:15:28,560 --> 00:15:32,200
but he came and he's wanting to
know how it works and what what

251
00:15:32,200 --> 00:15:35,080
happens.
And he walked in, His wife sat

252
00:15:35,080 --> 00:15:38,880
there and I looked at her and
kind of using that seership in

253
00:15:38,880 --> 00:15:42,880
my mind, I looked at her and I
said you're Native American.

254
00:15:43,640 --> 00:15:49,520
And she said I am not.
And I I saw in my mind's eye her

255
00:15:49,520 --> 00:15:54,160
dad and he was Native American
and and I said, I I'm pretty

256
00:15:54,160 --> 00:15:57,840
sure you need to talk to your
mom, you know, and see what she

257
00:15:57,840 --> 00:16:00,720
says about that.
So later she went and talked to

258
00:16:00,720 --> 00:16:04,120
her mom and she said this Sears
ship guy tells me that I'm

259
00:16:04,240 --> 00:16:06,920
Indian and I just don't believe
it.

260
00:16:07,680 --> 00:16:09,400
So she says why you need to come
with me?

261
00:16:09,400 --> 00:16:11,960
And they went in the other room
and she sat down and said, your

262
00:16:11,960 --> 00:16:16,520
father was full Indian from a
tribe up near New York that was

263
00:16:16,520 --> 00:16:22,840
a very white Indian and some had
blue eyes, you know, And so, so

264
00:16:22,840 --> 00:16:26,600
that that kind of proved out
what I'd seen in my mind's eye.

265
00:16:26,920 --> 00:16:30,280
So I didn't have a cedar stone.
I wasn't looking into it, but I

266
00:16:30,280 --> 00:16:35,720
could see that in my mind and
saw her father and and that's

267
00:16:35,880 --> 00:16:39,360
that's where you progress or you
don't even need a stone.

268
00:16:39,600 --> 00:16:42,080
You know, people can just see
things in their in their mind.

269
00:16:42,200 --> 00:16:44,800
A lot of people this happens and
they don't even understand what

270
00:16:44,800 --> 00:16:47,760
it is.
I had AI had a young friend and

271
00:16:47,760 --> 00:16:51,480
he kept coming in and talking to
me and and he, he says I don't

272
00:16:51,480 --> 00:16:53,920
have any of that.
And then he told me a story

273
00:16:53,920 --> 00:16:57,440
where he was heading out the
door and his wife says, hey,

274
00:16:57,440 --> 00:17:00,920
wait a minute, I lost that
really expensive toy for the boy

275
00:17:00,920 --> 00:17:04,280
and you need to help me find it.
And he goes, no, I'm in a hurry.

276
00:17:04,280 --> 00:17:08,400
And he said he just saw it
behind it in his mind's eye.

277
00:17:08,400 --> 00:17:12,760
He saw it behind the piano and
he didn't even look behind the

278
00:17:12,760 --> 00:17:13,960
piano.
He just reached behind the

279
00:17:13,960 --> 00:17:17,040
piano, grabbed it and said here
it is, and then walked out the

280
00:17:17,079 --> 00:17:22,119
door and I go, what is that?
That's seership, OK.

281
00:17:22,119 --> 00:17:24,920
When you're seeing things in
that caliber.

282
00:17:25,440 --> 00:17:30,360
And so, so one of my purposes is
to, to help people understand

283
00:17:30,760 --> 00:17:33,640
it's not as scary, it's not as
weird.

284
00:17:33,640 --> 00:17:37,440
It's it's it's almost
commonplace and we see things in

285
00:17:37,440 --> 00:17:41,240
our mind's eye.
We just don't don't understand

286
00:17:41,240 --> 00:17:46,520
what's happening and so and so
this this, this second form, the

287
00:17:46,520 --> 00:17:50,640
first form is an open vision.
Second form is you begin to see

288
00:17:50,880 --> 00:17:55,520
images in your mind.
I I taught a a group of people

289
00:17:57,040 --> 00:17:59,120
and I couldn't figure out a way
to get them to do it.

290
00:17:59,120 --> 00:18:00,920
But I said OK, everybody close
your eyes.

291
00:18:01,520 --> 00:18:04,920
And they closed their eyes and I
said, OK, imagine a white

292
00:18:04,920 --> 00:18:10,280
elephant and just see if you can
see that white elephants.

293
00:18:10,280 --> 00:18:12,000
Some people have to close their
eyes.

294
00:18:12,000 --> 00:18:13,520
Some people would look off in
the distance.

295
00:18:13,520 --> 00:18:15,680
Oh, I see it.
I can see it in my mind's eye.

296
00:18:16,120 --> 00:18:18,800
Imagination is more important
than knowledge.

297
00:18:18,920 --> 00:18:22,600
Einstein said why?
Because it's the creative force

298
00:18:22,640 --> 00:18:24,880
and it allows you to see many
things.

299
00:18:25,720 --> 00:18:30,560
And so anyway, so so they saw
the the white elephant and I

300
00:18:30,560 --> 00:18:33,120
said, OK, bring a a lion in
front of it.

301
00:18:33,200 --> 00:18:35,680
And then they bring a lion.
And for OK, I see the lion.

302
00:18:35,680 --> 00:18:37,640
Everybody see the lion.
Yep, everybody sees the lion.

303
00:18:38,320 --> 00:18:40,080
All right.
Now I have the lion jump over

304
00:18:40,360 --> 00:18:44,160
the the elephant and they jump
over the elephant and and see

305
00:18:44,160 --> 00:18:46,400
that.
And so that was a that was a

306
00:18:46,400 --> 00:18:49,400
training mechanism to get their
mind to where they start.

307
00:18:49,400 --> 00:18:53,480
Trying to visualize dreaming is
the same way.

308
00:18:53,480 --> 00:18:57,440
I had, I have a whole lecture on
dreaming and and had the gifted

309
00:18:57,440 --> 00:19:00,880
dreams and how that works.
And it works very much the same

310
00:19:00,880 --> 00:19:04,280
way, because you're starting to
see those images in your mind

311
00:19:04,400 --> 00:19:09,400
and it's through this third eye.
OK, let me ask this question

312
00:19:09,400 --> 00:19:12,880
before I I I ask another and and
forgive me, I'm gonna play

313
00:19:12,880 --> 00:19:14,600
devil's advocate here a little
bit.

314
00:19:15,520 --> 00:19:18,840
You said that that you have to
use your imagination.

315
00:19:19,280 --> 00:19:23,240
So if you're using your
imagination, isn't it possible

316
00:19:23,240 --> 00:19:26,200
that you could fool yourself
into seeing certain things?

317
00:19:26,920 --> 00:19:31,280
Sure, Yeah, you you could.
I mean, that's the whole point

318
00:19:31,280 --> 00:19:34,360
of how cedarship works.
You could, you could start

319
00:19:34,360 --> 00:19:37,320
seeing your own images.
You could start when you and

320
00:19:37,320 --> 00:19:40,920
when you start doing this you
can tell that wait a minute, I'm

321
00:19:40,920 --> 00:19:43,760
creating this.
It's not just something that

322
00:19:43,880 --> 00:19:47,760
that comes and when something
comes and you're not expecting

323
00:19:47,760 --> 00:19:52,200
it and you see it, that's when
you know that's pretty close to

324
00:19:52,200 --> 00:19:56,080
something that's real.
That's an answer that you got

325
00:19:56,520 --> 00:19:58,360
and and how that that comes
about.

326
00:19:59,440 --> 00:20:02,080
So that's the way to to kind of
tell the difference.

327
00:20:02,080 --> 00:20:03,600
One way to tell the.
Difference.

328
00:20:03,640 --> 00:20:06,600
It's it it it's not something
that maybe you're thinking about

329
00:20:06,600 --> 00:20:10,680
it's just you put yourself in
that revelatory state and and I

330
00:20:10,680 --> 00:20:13,200
understand right now we're
talking more about seer ship and

331
00:20:13,200 --> 00:20:14,840
we'll get back to seer stones in
a minute.

332
00:20:14,840 --> 00:20:19,360
But I I find this fascinating.
So a good way to tell is

333
00:20:19,360 --> 00:20:24,840
something that that comes to you
rather than you thinking about

334
00:20:24,840 --> 00:20:27,600
something and then having that
thing appear in your mind's eye.

335
00:20:27,600 --> 00:20:28,840
Is that what I'm understanding
right?

336
00:20:29,440 --> 00:20:32,120
Correct.
OK, so let me ask you this.

337
00:20:32,120 --> 00:20:35,520
How do you make sure that when
you're in that revelatory state,

338
00:20:35,520 --> 00:20:38,080
you're not picking up messages
from the adversary?

339
00:20:38,680 --> 00:20:41,000
OK.
And that's good because that's

340
00:20:41,000 --> 00:20:44,720
very difficult.
A lot of, I mean, if you're just

341
00:20:44,720 --> 00:20:47,840
trying to find something or
whatever, that's that's one

342
00:20:47,840 --> 00:20:49,520
thing.
But if you're praying about

343
00:20:49,520 --> 00:20:52,640
spiritual things, you have to be
really kind of in tune.

344
00:20:53,240 --> 00:20:56,240
You have to.
There's things that you as you

345
00:20:56,400 --> 00:21:01,840
as you try, it's just a a trial
and you keep trying it and as

346
00:21:01,840 --> 00:21:03,840
you progress you start to
understand.

347
00:21:03,840 --> 00:21:06,400
Wait a minute.
Because remember Joe Smith said

348
00:21:06,400 --> 00:21:08,480
there's there's three sources of
dreams.

349
00:21:09,040 --> 00:21:13,520
One that you create like we just
talked about, one that God sends

350
00:21:13,720 --> 00:21:17,840
and one that the devil sends.
And so you have to figure out

351
00:21:17,880 --> 00:21:20,680
those and which one is is
coming.

352
00:21:20,760 --> 00:21:24,080
Just like dreams, it says those,
those come by that.

353
00:21:25,800 --> 00:21:27,000
So how do you tell the
difference?

354
00:21:27,920 --> 00:21:32,240
How how would you know to tell
the difference between something

355
00:21:32,240 --> 00:21:35,320
that that the Lord wants you to
receive and something maybe the

356
00:21:35,320 --> 00:21:37,720
adversary might try to throw you
off with, right?

357
00:21:37,720 --> 00:21:40,960
Because the adversary very
rarely shows up in his true

358
00:21:40,960 --> 00:21:44,160
form, right?
He most of the time the the the

359
00:21:44,400 --> 00:21:47,040
the Adversary doesn't try to
blind you with darkness, he

360
00:21:47,040 --> 00:21:48,880
tries to blind you with false
light.

361
00:21:49,280 --> 00:21:51,840
So how is it you tell the
difference?

362
00:21:51,960 --> 00:21:53,960
And while you're in that
repertory state.

363
00:21:54,520 --> 00:21:59,760
So everybody has their own way.
Like the one girl that was the

364
00:21:59,800 --> 00:22:02,400
Indian, I taught her seership
and we were chatting about this

365
00:22:02,400 --> 00:22:04,800
one day.
And I said, you know, when I

366
00:22:04,960 --> 00:22:08,240
when I see something, if it's a
spiritual thing and I'm trying

367
00:22:08,240 --> 00:22:13,040
to go into a spiritual realm,
that seems to be more when you

368
00:22:13,040 --> 00:22:16,360
get a little tempted or there's
the devil there, whatever you

369
00:22:16,360 --> 00:22:20,360
want to call it, the adversary.
And it has a dark feel.

370
00:22:21,000 --> 00:22:25,080
It's almost like in the
scripture where it says you just

371
00:22:25,080 --> 00:22:29,320
have this stupor of thought.
It's it's not real crystal

372
00:22:29,320 --> 00:22:31,040
clear.
It's not It's different, you

373
00:22:31,040 --> 00:22:34,560
know, and it doesn't quite feel
right.

374
00:22:34,560 --> 00:22:36,360
Did that feel, is that really
the answer?

375
00:22:36,360 --> 00:22:38,160
I don't know.
You know, it's that's kind of

376
00:22:38,160 --> 00:22:41,480
thing where the other would be
like, Oh my heck, it's right

377
00:22:41,480 --> 00:22:43,600
behind the piano.
There it is right there.

378
00:22:43,800 --> 00:22:46,240
You know, you just, there's no
doubt.

379
00:22:46,240 --> 00:22:49,600
You just know.
And so there's so that's one way

380
00:22:49,600 --> 00:22:53,320
that I did.
She, before she would ever use a

381
00:22:53,320 --> 00:22:56,120
seer stone or do anything else,
she'd pray that she wouldn't be

382
00:22:56,120 --> 00:22:59,440
deceived, which I think is
relevant.

383
00:23:00,360 --> 00:23:05,520
And she would also pray that she
would know in her heart if it's

384
00:23:05,560 --> 00:23:08,920
if this is true or accurate or
or whatever.

385
00:23:10,200 --> 00:23:13,520
So she would get, she would see
something, and then she would

386
00:23:13,520 --> 00:23:15,400
immediately pray about it to
know if.

387
00:23:15,400 --> 00:23:18,200
It was.
Is this correct or is this not

388
00:23:18,200 --> 00:23:21,560
correct?
And and like I say, the stupor

389
00:23:21,560 --> 00:23:22,520
of thought.
You see it.

390
00:23:22,760 --> 00:23:28,080
You see these patterns in in
dreams, in seership, in prayer.

391
00:23:28,240 --> 00:23:30,120
You know, it's all kind of
connected.

392
00:23:31,480 --> 00:23:33,360
OK, All right.
Now that makes sense.

393
00:23:33,360 --> 00:23:37,160
So if you can't tell in the
moment, pray about it later.

394
00:23:37,840 --> 00:23:40,600
Yes.
And maybe even if you can tell

395
00:23:40,600 --> 00:23:43,120
in the moment, it's still
probably a healthy exercise to

396
00:23:43,120 --> 00:23:46,280
pray about.
It absolutely, absolutely.

397
00:23:47,320 --> 00:23:49,000
Yeah.
So now, are you ever worried

398
00:23:49,000 --> 00:23:54,400
about maybe someone who's fairly
new in their discipleship with

399
00:23:54,400 --> 00:23:57,880
Christ trying these exercises?
Is this something they should

400
00:23:57,880 --> 00:23:59,560
build up to?
I mean?

401
00:24:00,960 --> 00:24:03,880
I think it's a building up to
and there's always the concept

402
00:24:04,000 --> 00:24:07,240
of having a mentor.
Like I would go to Native

403
00:24:07,240 --> 00:24:10,560
Americans and ask them questions
and they'd say, Oh no, no, no,

404
00:24:10,560 --> 00:24:15,680
don't do that, no, no what?
So there's a lot of things that

405
00:24:15,680 --> 00:24:21,080
helps when when tutoring people
and helping them understand this

406
00:24:21,720 --> 00:24:28,160
and and and seership's a little
more accurate, I guess I could

407
00:24:28,160 --> 00:24:32,480
say that once it kind of comes
it seems like like when it

408
00:24:32,480 --> 00:24:36,680
really is working, you know that
it's for sure it's there's no

409
00:24:36,680 --> 00:24:40,040
questions.
There's no you don't feel like

410
00:24:40,040 --> 00:24:43,600
the devil's deceiving you.
You know that kind of thing.

411
00:24:44,000 --> 00:24:46,560
And the other thing is when if
you're doing a spiritual

412
00:24:46,680 --> 00:24:49,440
question or spiritual stuff,
that's when the devil's going to

413
00:24:49,440 --> 00:24:52,560
be there the most.
Just trying to find something or

414
00:24:52,560 --> 00:24:54,960
whatever.
You know they might be there,

415
00:24:55,480 --> 00:24:58,960
but but when you're you're in
that work and you're trying to

416
00:24:58,960 --> 00:25:01,240
do things, you're help things
progress.

417
00:25:01,600 --> 00:25:04,320
That's when you really got to
pray and make sure that you're

418
00:25:04,320 --> 00:25:09,360
on on track.
Is this something that that that

419
00:25:09,360 --> 00:25:11,800
you find that people either have
or they don't?

420
00:25:11,800 --> 00:25:14,800
And if they don't have it, is it
something that can be developed?

421
00:25:16,080 --> 00:25:20,920
OK, so there's the there's the
three extremes.

422
00:25:20,920 --> 00:25:24,960
There's the ones that just walk
in like this young girl.

423
00:25:25,680 --> 00:25:28,800
She was Native American, picked
it up like that.

424
00:25:28,880 --> 00:25:32,720
I'm not kidding.
I lost a stone and I couldn't

425
00:25:32,720 --> 00:25:34,640
find it anywhere.
And I was all emotional.

426
00:25:34,640 --> 00:25:37,680
Two weeks after I'd talked to
this girl, I called her up and I

427
00:25:37,680 --> 00:25:42,600
said, can you see what you see?
And she, she called me back that

428
00:25:42,600 --> 00:25:45,680
day and said I saw it in a blue
vest.

429
00:25:47,320 --> 00:25:50,680
And I said, that's correct.
I used to keep it in her pocket

430
00:25:51,240 --> 00:25:55,320
and I said OK and so now what?
And she says, well then I saw in

431
00:25:55,320 --> 00:25:57,240
a little box, I didn't tell her
anything.

432
00:25:57,240 --> 00:26:00,840
It just said I lost it and
that's where I kept it for the

433
00:26:00,840 --> 00:26:03,240
longest time.
My wife came in one little box

434
00:26:03,240 --> 00:26:07,160
and disappeared all my stuff.
I had all my sacred Indian

435
00:26:07,160 --> 00:26:11,720
feathers and whatever in there
And and then she said now I see

436
00:26:11,720 --> 00:26:16,240
it and it's in a big box looks
like this and it's with a whole

437
00:26:16,240 --> 00:26:22,040
bunch of other rocks.
So my wife just saw that and saw

438
00:26:22,040 --> 00:26:25,000
a bunch of junk in it, you know,
rocks and whatever and didn't

439
00:26:25,000 --> 00:26:27,240
figure it was worth anything.
So she wanted the box.

440
00:26:27,240 --> 00:26:30,360
So she just took all that out
and threw the rock in the in

441
00:26:30,360 --> 00:26:33,120
the, you know, the rock place.
And I don't know what she did

442
00:26:33,120 --> 00:26:35,720
with the rest stuff but probably
threw it away.

443
00:26:36,280 --> 00:26:41,800
And so anyway, but she had
pegged that right on, right on

444
00:26:43,080 --> 00:26:47,400
in two weeks.
So that's an example of somebody

445
00:26:47,400 --> 00:26:52,040
that's got these gifts.
I find that Native Americans and

446
00:26:52,200 --> 00:26:55,840
Polynesians and those kind of
people seem to have that a

447
00:26:55,840 --> 00:26:58,200
little better, a little more in
tune.

448
00:26:59,680 --> 00:27:01,920
And then there's the one, you
know, you can sit and work with

449
00:27:01,920 --> 00:27:05,120
them and teach them and they
they they come about and but

450
00:27:05,120 --> 00:27:08,800
then there's a couple.
Why I do the test is there's a

451
00:27:08,800 --> 00:27:12,200
couple that came in and they're
very intellectual.

452
00:27:12,840 --> 00:27:15,880
They've written books, they've
written deep doctrinal books.

453
00:27:16,360 --> 00:27:19,160
And I says, OK, let's try this.
You know, do you see white

454
00:27:19,160 --> 00:27:20,160
elephant?
No.

455
00:27:20,840 --> 00:27:23,320
They sat there for, I don't know
how long, couldn't see a white

456
00:27:23,320 --> 00:27:26,440
elephant.
And I was like, really?

457
00:27:26,760 --> 00:27:31,720
And there are people who just
either they, they've never

458
00:27:31,720 --> 00:27:35,800
imagined things or they just
maybe after a while they could

459
00:27:35,800 --> 00:27:38,040
get it.
But there are some that just

460
00:27:38,360 --> 00:27:40,520
don't have it.
It's just not their gift.

461
00:27:41,280 --> 00:27:42,280
Just not.
Not their gift.

462
00:27:43,840 --> 00:27:51,680
OK, So when we we've talked a
little bit about how seership

463
00:27:51,680 --> 00:27:56,960
works, right when when you use
it, you know you obviously you

464
00:27:56,960 --> 00:28:00,520
bring up the the point of
finding lost things, right?

465
00:28:00,560 --> 00:28:04,160
Physical things, the the, the
child's toy behind the piano,

466
00:28:04,160 --> 00:28:06,440
your stone, those sorts of
things.

467
00:28:06,800 --> 00:28:12,560
What kind of things with
seership can you can you get

468
00:28:12,640 --> 00:28:15,240
right?
I mean like what other what kind

469
00:28:15,240 --> 00:28:17,360
of things are?
Are are you seeking with

470
00:28:17,360 --> 00:28:19,080
seership?
Are you seeking spiritual

471
00:28:19,080 --> 00:28:21,800
truths?
Are you seeking answers to

472
00:28:21,800 --> 00:28:23,800
life's questions?
What kind of things are are

473
00:28:23,800 --> 00:28:26,880
available through seership as
far as that goes?

474
00:28:28,240 --> 00:28:32,520
Everything, really.
That's why a seer is greater

475
00:28:32,520 --> 00:28:34,160
than a prophet.
OK?

476
00:28:34,600 --> 00:28:40,080
What medicine should I take?
OK, You may see it in your

477
00:28:40,080 --> 00:28:43,600
mind's eye.
I mean, some people, they they

478
00:28:43,600 --> 00:28:46,680
will see a flower.
You know, I was talking to a

479
00:28:46,680 --> 00:28:49,920
girl once and she was, she was
so good, I could tell she was

480
00:28:49,920 --> 00:28:53,400
seeing things.
And I said, So what do you think

481
00:28:53,400 --> 00:28:56,800
your little sister needs?
And she says, I see this, I see

482
00:28:56,800 --> 00:29:00,080
this purple flower and it has
kind of this brown cone in the

483
00:29:00,080 --> 00:29:02,160
middle and this and that.
She didn't even know what

484
00:29:02,160 --> 00:29:05,920
echinacea was.
I was like, Oh my heck, OK, how

485
00:29:05,920 --> 00:29:07,240
about this?
How about this?

486
00:29:07,240 --> 00:29:11,600
She was seeing all that stuff.
And so she was having a question

487
00:29:11,600 --> 00:29:14,880
about medical stuff.
Should I go to Salt Lake City

488
00:29:14,880 --> 00:29:17,840
today?
One time I was like, should I

489
00:29:17,840 --> 00:29:19,240
go?
And I was, you know, you're kind

490
00:29:19,240 --> 00:29:22,400
of praying and at the same time
and trying to see something in

491
00:29:22,400 --> 00:29:27,240
your mind's eye and then boom,
there, you know, something said

492
00:29:27,240 --> 00:29:31,280
don't go.
I saw an accident and so and so

493
00:29:31,280 --> 00:29:34,680
it was just probably about the
time I would have been there.

494
00:29:34,680 --> 00:29:39,160
There was a huge accident, semi
truck turned over, cars piled up

495
00:29:39,600 --> 00:29:45,280
like oh, OK, you know, I think a
good thing I didn't, didn't go

496
00:29:48,280 --> 00:29:50,920
when I was a little guy that
lost things.

497
00:29:51,200 --> 00:29:54,440
OK, So I had this really
expensive knife.

498
00:29:55,000 --> 00:29:58,880
I bought it in boy's life and it
had it and eagle head on the end

499
00:29:58,880 --> 00:30:02,800
you know and all this stuff
Beacon Eagle stuff all through

500
00:30:02,800 --> 00:30:05,480
it and it was like 100 bucks or
something back in the day.

501
00:30:05,840 --> 00:30:09,560
Nice beautiful sheath and and
anyway I went walking out the

502
00:30:09,560 --> 00:30:13,360
mountains and I was up there and
I leaned back on a tree and just

503
00:30:13,360 --> 00:30:16,680
kind of looked over the whole
cascade of stuff there and ugly

504
00:30:16,680 --> 00:30:18,000
proving the grounds where this
was.

505
00:30:18,400 --> 00:30:20,800
And I went out and then and I
walked up a little ways and

506
00:30:20,920 --> 00:30:22,920
something happened.
I needed to use my knife and I

507
00:30:22,920 --> 00:30:24,760
went to grab it and it wasn't
there.

508
00:30:24,760 --> 00:30:30,040
Wasn't in the sheath and just
the little boy inside of me.

509
00:30:30,400 --> 00:30:35,800
I just knelt down and prayed and
instantly I saw in my mind's eye

510
00:30:36,120 --> 00:30:40,960
I saw when I leaned against that
tree and I saw the tree and saw

511
00:30:40,960 --> 00:30:45,960
me, that knife fell out.
So I went running back to the

512
00:30:45,960 --> 00:30:52,640
tree and there was my knife.
Interesting.

513
00:30:53,600 --> 00:30:57,920
Let's talk a little bit about
maybe because look, I'm a big

514
00:30:57,920 --> 00:31:02,200
believer in the stuff you take
in your body has spiritual

515
00:31:02,200 --> 00:31:06,160
consequence to it, right?
I I just do.

516
00:31:06,160 --> 00:31:12,000
I I've seen too much to
understand that the third eye in

517
00:31:12,000 --> 00:31:14,680
the pineal gland is a is a real
thing, right?

518
00:31:14,680 --> 00:31:18,520
I mean, I I think there's plenty
of ancient civilizations that

519
00:31:18,520 --> 00:31:22,960
point this out, the Egyptians
being one and some Judaic

520
00:31:22,960 --> 00:31:27,600
tradition as well, where it
talks about about that third eye

521
00:31:27,600 --> 00:31:29,080
in the in the center of the
forehead.

522
00:31:29,080 --> 00:31:35,480
There are there physical
limitations that can can inhibit

523
00:31:35,480 --> 00:31:38,080
that a little bit.
OK.

524
00:31:38,440 --> 00:31:39,760
Yeah.
So I think where you're kind of

525
00:31:39,760 --> 00:31:43,520
going with this is oh all the
pollutants in our water supply

526
00:31:43,520 --> 00:31:48,320
and fluoride and you know all
the other tetracycline and I

527
00:31:48,320 --> 00:31:51,000
don't know they they piled
everything in there in the world

528
00:31:51,520 --> 00:31:59,680
in our food now and it's really
difficult and so and so one of

529
00:31:59,680 --> 00:32:06,520
the things that I taught how to
clear that out was was Borax

530
00:32:07,000 --> 00:32:10,440
cause a little boron.
Boron is a is a necessary thing

531
00:32:10,440 --> 00:32:13,560
in our environment and there was
actually this thing called the

532
00:32:13,560 --> 00:32:19,080
Borax Conspiracy written by
Walter last and he talked about

533
00:32:19,400 --> 00:32:24,160
how our nitrogen and all our
other chemicals and things we

534
00:32:24,160 --> 00:32:29,320
put on for fertilizers actually
kind of depleted out what little

535
00:32:29,320 --> 00:32:33,680
boron was in the soil already.
And so we're just not getting it

536
00:32:34,720 --> 00:32:36,760
anymore.
It's just not there like it used

537
00:32:36,760 --> 00:32:40,320
to be.
And so, so with a little bit of

538
00:32:40,320 --> 00:32:46,560
that in there, just a little tad
bit, it'll help pull out a lot

539
00:32:46,560 --> 00:32:48,320
of that fluoride out of our
system.

540
00:32:49,960 --> 00:32:53,440
Is isn't boron toxic?
No.

541
00:32:53,760 --> 00:32:54,720
It's not.
Not at all.

542
00:32:55,200 --> 00:32:58,400
OK, good to know, Good to know.
And So what?

543
00:32:58,400 --> 00:32:59,880
What?
Borax.

544
00:33:00,000 --> 00:33:01,600
The Borax.
Sorry, the Borax.

545
00:33:01,600 --> 00:33:03,960
Go ahead.
So you know, they'll stay

546
00:33:03,960 --> 00:33:05,480
online.
Oh, it's kind of toxic.

547
00:33:05,480 --> 00:33:07,760
Or this, that.
Well, you know, they say they

548
00:33:07,760 --> 00:33:12,600
counter everything but but you
know, I was, I was giving this

549
00:33:12,600 --> 00:33:14,920
to an old man one time.
They usually happen to be in the

550
00:33:14,920 --> 00:33:17,400
audience.
And he misunderstood.

551
00:33:18,080 --> 00:33:21,960
And he goes, oh, I thought it
was like a tablespoon a day, you

552
00:33:22,720 --> 00:33:27,440
know, and we're all like, are
you kidding, a tablespoon, you

553
00:33:27,440 --> 00:33:28,960
know?
And he goes, oh, yeah, cleaned

554
00:33:28,960 --> 00:33:32,560
me out, got rid of parasites,
man, I, I was miserable for

555
00:33:32,560 --> 00:33:36,560
about 3 weeks, you know, on the
toilet every day and you know,

556
00:33:36,560 --> 00:33:39,680
all this kind of stuff.
But he says I feel great now.

557
00:33:39,680 --> 00:33:44,200
I've never felt better.
And and he was beginning to have

558
00:33:44,200 --> 00:33:46,160
dreams.
The reason why was because we're

559
00:33:46,160 --> 00:33:49,840
trying to get him to have dreams
and and that helped.

560
00:33:50,680 --> 00:33:54,840
Gotcha, gotcha.
OK, I think that answers that

561
00:33:54,840 --> 00:33:57,600
question.
Now one of the things I love

562
00:33:57,600 --> 00:34:03,320
about Joseph Smith is that if if
I, me personally, if I was to

563
00:34:03,320 --> 00:34:07,160
say you know what's what's one
of the overarching themes in

564
00:34:07,160 --> 00:34:12,159
Joseph Smith's life, it's I had
my experience with God and deity

565
00:34:12,600 --> 00:34:17,360
and you can too, right.
He didn't try to possess it like

566
00:34:17,360 --> 00:34:20,880
it was something just meant for
elites, right?

567
00:34:20,920 --> 00:34:24,080
He he was like, you all should
be having these things.

568
00:34:24,480 --> 00:34:28,280
And I've said for a while now
that that if you're not having

569
00:34:28,280 --> 00:34:32,400
encounters with the divine on a
fairly regular basis.

570
00:34:32,400 --> 00:34:35,080
I'm not talking once a day or
anything like that, but on a

571
00:34:35,080 --> 00:34:38,360
regular basis, so to speak.
I don't think you're getting the

572
00:34:38,360 --> 00:34:40,600
full effect Mormonism has to
offer you.

573
00:34:41,719 --> 00:34:46,280
Correct.
So with that, going back to seer

574
00:34:46,280 --> 00:34:50,199
stones, now if Joseph used one,
and if I'm not mistaken, it was

575
00:34:50,199 --> 00:34:53,280
more than just Joseph as well,
Brigham had one too, right?

576
00:34:53,760 --> 00:34:57,280
Sure, yes.
OK, so if these early brethren

577
00:34:57,280 --> 00:35:01,880
were using them and Joseph's,
one of Joseph's main thrust to

578
00:35:01,880 --> 00:35:05,080
his mission was getting people
to have these encounters with

579
00:35:05,080 --> 00:35:10,720
the divine and these spiritual
experiences, it would make sense

580
00:35:10,720 --> 00:35:15,800
to me that that this could
potentially be a tool that that

581
00:35:15,800 --> 00:35:18,320
could help us in receiving
revelation as well.

582
00:35:19,680 --> 00:35:27,360
So how how does someone go about
one, finding a seer stone, Two,

583
00:35:28,280 --> 00:35:32,520
being able to recognize it when
they do see it?

584
00:35:33,360 --> 00:35:39,520
Three, how you use it.
OK, so let's go with the first

585
00:35:39,520 --> 00:35:41,400
one finding.
Is that the first question,

586
00:35:41,560 --> 00:35:42,120
right?
Yep.

587
00:35:42,920 --> 00:35:48,920
OK, so now there are, there are
stories that there were people.

588
00:35:49,240 --> 00:35:53,320
There was a young boy down in
southern Utah and in the early

589
00:35:53,320 --> 00:35:56,640
days of the church and he just
run all over and he'd find a

590
00:35:56,640 --> 00:35:59,520
stone and he'd go, oh, this is
so and so stone.

591
00:35:59,520 --> 00:36:02,480
He'd take it to him and they'd
look into it and then they were

592
00:36:02,480 --> 00:36:06,440
having right away.
They were seeing things and and

593
00:36:06,560 --> 00:36:10,400
the boy was so gifted at going
and finding these stones.

594
00:36:10,720 --> 00:36:17,000
It was incredible and and so, so
that was just a gift that he

595
00:36:17,000 --> 00:36:19,680
had.
So what I do is I tell people,

596
00:36:19,680 --> 00:36:24,360
go out, just find anything that
kind of attracts to you the way

597
00:36:24,360 --> 00:36:28,880
the Native Americans would say,
would say it speaks to you, You

598
00:36:28,880 --> 00:36:31,480
know, does it speak to you?
Do you feel something from it?

599
00:36:31,560 --> 00:36:33,920
Well, you know, you go out and
look at a big rock pile of

600
00:36:33,920 --> 00:36:39,320
gravel and and honestly almost
everybody, there's some stone

601
00:36:39,320 --> 00:36:42,600
that just speaks out to them and
they go to it and they pull it

602
00:36:42,600 --> 00:36:45,840
out of the pile and they hold in
their left hand or right hand

603
00:36:45,840 --> 00:36:48,440
and they kind of feel it.
Now.

604
00:36:48,560 --> 00:36:52,760
Now, I personally taught people
and it's not with everybody of

605
00:36:52,760 --> 00:36:57,480
course, that sometimes the stone
will actually resonate a

606
00:36:57,480 --> 00:37:00,560
frequency.
It'll it'll get warm in your

607
00:37:00,560 --> 00:37:06,640
hand quicker than normal.
And those would mean that it's

608
00:37:06,640 --> 00:37:10,480
kind of a tune to you and my
study was electronics.

609
00:37:10,480 --> 00:37:14,040
And so everything has
electricity and everything has a

610
00:37:14,040 --> 00:37:17,120
frequency.
And so if you're picking this

611
00:37:17,120 --> 00:37:21,360
stone up and it has the
different frequency, you know, I

612
00:37:21,360 --> 00:37:27,200
can't really work with like
quartz or or, you know, that

613
00:37:27,200 --> 00:37:31,640
kind of stuff because crystals,
they just when I, when I work

614
00:37:31,640 --> 00:37:34,560
around them, it's just like 1000
channels hitting me all at one

615
00:37:34,560 --> 00:37:37,640
time.
They're very, very you'd have to

616
00:37:37,640 --> 00:37:41,560
really be focused in order for
me to use one.

617
00:37:42,040 --> 00:37:46,800
And so I use more earthy stones
and things that, you know, kind

618
00:37:46,800 --> 00:37:49,320
of look more like a natural type
stone.

619
00:37:51,480 --> 00:37:55,440
And so they would find it.
And then I have one friend and

620
00:37:55,440 --> 00:37:58,680
he says every time I find one, I
think what it is, I dedicate it

621
00:37:58,680 --> 00:38:03,200
to the good purposes of God.
I say a prayer, dedicate it, say

622
00:38:03,200 --> 00:38:05,960
this is for the purposes of God,
not for the devil.

623
00:38:06,880 --> 00:38:10,680
So that's fine.
That's finding seer stones and

624
00:38:10,680 --> 00:38:12,480
kind of getting that feel for
it.

625
00:38:14,320 --> 00:38:17,440
And some will work better than
others and that kind of thing.

626
00:38:18,080 --> 00:38:19,640
I got you.
OK.

627
00:38:19,640 --> 00:38:23,040
And the second question was?
Hold on before we move on to the

628
00:38:23,040 --> 00:38:25,800
second question.
I I want to, I want to dive into

629
00:38:25,800 --> 00:38:29,880
something here a little bit that
you said the stone will speak to

630
00:38:29,880 --> 00:38:33,320
you or or or a stone that that
that grabs your attention.

631
00:38:33,320 --> 00:38:35,200
Will it be the way it looks?
Is it?

632
00:38:35,200 --> 00:38:39,800
Is that something that that you
mean by it by it speaks to you?

633
00:38:42,320 --> 00:38:45,480
I mean, I I've walked into a
pile and saw a white rock.

634
00:38:45,480 --> 00:38:49,040
And for some reason I went, wow.
And my eye just focused on this

635
00:38:49,040 --> 00:38:51,280
white rock and it went and got
it and it worked.

636
00:38:51,680 --> 00:38:57,720
And so was it the color or was
it just that electricity

637
00:38:57,760 --> 00:39:00,080
connecting with me?
You know what I mean?

638
00:39:00,120 --> 00:39:02,120
That it had a vibration like
mine.

639
00:39:02,160 --> 00:39:05,720
And so I went to get it and and
I felt like it it worked.

640
00:39:06,120 --> 00:39:07,920
I don't know, It's different for
everybody.

641
00:39:08,680 --> 00:39:14,320
But it seems like when when
people go to look, they just say

642
00:39:14,320 --> 00:39:16,520
that one just felt good to me,
you know?

643
00:39:16,520 --> 00:39:19,760
That's why I got it.
I just, man, I had people come

644
00:39:19,760 --> 00:39:21,040
in the other day and they were
talking.

645
00:39:21,160 --> 00:39:24,680
Yeah, I was walking along and I
looked down and saw this stone

646
00:39:24,920 --> 00:39:28,200
and I walked past it and and it
was like the spirit was saying

647
00:39:28,200 --> 00:39:31,760
go back and get that stone.
And so he went back and got the

648
00:39:31,760 --> 00:39:37,840
stone and it worked for it, you
know, and and and and, and

649
00:39:37,840 --> 00:39:42,960
that's probably a way of
selecting a stone by prayer.

650
00:39:43,160 --> 00:39:46,560
That's a good one too.
You know, gotcha.

651
00:39:46,840 --> 00:39:49,040
OK.
So once once you've selected the

652
00:39:49,040 --> 00:39:53,680
stone so to speak, how can you
tell that it's really and and

653
00:39:53,680 --> 00:39:57,640
this was the second question
that that's really what it is

654
00:39:57,800 --> 00:40:00,160
versus something that just
caught your eye.

655
00:40:00,160 --> 00:40:02,840
You talked about that hand test.
Could you go into that a little

656
00:40:02,840 --> 00:40:05,240
more?
OK, so it would warm up in your

657
00:40:05,240 --> 00:40:08,320
hand or here's the best.
OK.

658
00:40:08,320 --> 00:40:11,360
Did it work?
I mean, did you feel anything

659
00:40:11,360 --> 00:40:13,560
different?
Did you see a little bit more,

660
00:40:15,760 --> 00:40:19,840
you know, 'cause when I, when I
was at a a really high level

661
00:40:19,840 --> 00:40:22,960
here after my near death, I
mean, I didn't really have to

662
00:40:22,960 --> 00:40:27,520
have stones or anything And but
there was a time when I was

663
00:40:27,520 --> 00:40:31,520
really trying to tune in and I
couldn't quite grasp what I was

664
00:40:31,520 --> 00:40:33,760
seeking.
Just everything I was trying to

665
00:40:33,760 --> 00:40:38,400
do, I just couldn't get it.
And so I thought, OK, enough of

666
00:40:38,400 --> 00:40:41,600
that.
I'm going to go get a stone.

667
00:40:41,600 --> 00:40:44,280
I went and got a stone minute, I
got the stone.

668
00:40:44,280 --> 00:40:48,560
I started feeling something and
it just automatically saw it.

669
00:40:49,640 --> 00:40:58,240
And so it is kind of a crutch.
It helps you to connect with God

670
00:40:58,880 --> 00:41:04,320
and how and how He works.
We're made of Earth, right?

671
00:41:04,480 --> 00:41:06,200
Right.
Made of earth.

672
00:41:06,200 --> 00:41:10,000
So when I get an Earth piece and
help us out, you know, right?

673
00:41:11,280 --> 00:41:15,000
So, so once you've selected the
stone, found out that it was

674
00:41:15,000 --> 00:41:19,080
more than just pretty that that
that was meant for you for for a

675
00:41:19,080 --> 00:41:22,400
purpose.
How do you go about using them

676
00:41:23,320 --> 00:41:24,920
at that point?
You you've talked about

677
00:41:24,920 --> 00:41:29,160
dedicating them, making sure you
know, like in in the dedication,

678
00:41:29,160 --> 00:41:32,240
making sure that you understand
it's for this purpose.

679
00:41:34,360 --> 00:41:38,880
Then how do you begin to use it
so that it becomes that that

680
00:41:38,880 --> 00:41:42,160
tool for you?
This episode of the podcast is

681
00:41:42,160 --> 00:41:44,320
brought to you by Deseret
flag.com.

682
00:41:44,680 --> 00:41:46,600
I've said this before and I
really mean it.

683
00:41:46,600 --> 00:41:49,240
Mormonism isn't just a religion,
it's a culture.

684
00:41:49,600 --> 00:41:52,240
As such, it has its own
vernacular and practices, but

685
00:41:52,240 --> 00:41:55,040
also its own symbols.
And those symbols become even

686
00:41:55,040 --> 00:41:57,280
more important and prominent
when you look back into our

687
00:41:57,280 --> 00:41:59,120
history.
Perhaps one of the most

688
00:41:59,120 --> 00:42:02,040
recognizable symbols of
Mormonism is the Deseret flag.

689
00:42:02,360 --> 00:42:05,640
This is the flag that I use as
cover art in this podcast.

690
00:42:06,080 --> 00:42:09,080
This was also used for a good
chunk of time during the pioneer

691
00:42:09,080 --> 00:42:11,760
era in Utah.
Now today we have people who

692
00:42:11,760 --> 00:42:14,760
want to replace the existing
Utah flag with some other

693
00:42:14,760 --> 00:42:17,800
progressive monstrosity.
Well, I think it's damn past

694
00:42:17,800 --> 00:42:20,480
time that we start pushing back
here a little bit in Utah.

695
00:42:20,840 --> 00:42:23,520
Our friends at Defending Utah
are here to help you with that.

696
00:42:23,760 --> 00:42:26,640
Now, if you go to
deseretflag.com, you can now

697
00:42:26,640 --> 00:42:28,640
purchase your own Deseret State
flag.

698
00:42:29,080 --> 00:42:32,280
It's time here that we start
making ourselves known and join

699
00:42:32,280 --> 00:42:35,080
the resistance against those who
seek to rewrite our state's

700
00:42:35,080 --> 00:42:38,600
history.
Go to deseretflag.com or check

701
00:42:38,600 --> 00:42:42,240
out the link in this episode's
page, Show notes and get yours

702
00:42:42,240 --> 00:42:44,240
today.
Can't get enough of the Mormon

703
00:42:44,240 --> 00:42:47,120
Renegade podcast?
Well, good news, we're on

704
00:42:47,120 --> 00:42:49,560
Patreon and there's three
packages that you can choose

705
00:42:49,560 --> 00:42:51,760
from.
The first one, the Slightly

706
00:42:51,760 --> 00:42:55,000
Rowdy package, allows you to
hear the podcast without all

707
00:42:55,000 --> 00:42:56,960
those pesky commercials getting
in the way.

708
00:42:57,400 --> 00:43:00,040
For those who want a slightly
more in depth experience,

709
00:43:00,040 --> 00:43:03,000
there's the Stirring It Up
package where you can hear ad

710
00:43:03,000 --> 00:43:06,000
free audio, ad free video and
transcripts.

711
00:43:06,480 --> 00:43:09,880
Finally, for those who want to
go full Renegade, that package

712
00:43:09,880 --> 00:43:12,560
is available too, where you can
get everything in the previous

713
00:43:12,560 --> 00:43:16,600
two packages, plus an extra show
where myself and Ben Winfield

714
00:43:16,840 --> 00:43:19,760
breakdown the news of the day
from a very Mormon point of

715
00:43:19,760 --> 00:43:21,800
view.
You will also get exclusive

716
00:43:21,800 --> 00:43:25,600
access to Renegade chat, and on
there you'll be able to talk to

717
00:43:25,600 --> 00:43:28,080
others about the show or
whatever topics are on your

718
00:43:28,080 --> 00:43:30,920
mind.
Go to Patreon today and get your

719
00:43:30,920 --> 00:43:32,760
exclusive content.
OK.

720
00:43:32,920 --> 00:43:37,040
So obviously dedicating the
stone to good.

721
00:43:37,680 --> 00:43:40,560
OK.
Also, I think part of the

722
00:43:40,560 --> 00:43:45,040
problem with a lot of things,
including prayer is people just

723
00:43:45,040 --> 00:43:49,080
don't work with it enough.
You know, I mean the famous

724
00:43:49,080 --> 00:43:51,880
story of Mormons is, OK, go
ahead and say a prayer.

725
00:43:51,880 --> 00:43:53,600
Oh, didn't get the answer.
OK, I'm done.

726
00:43:54,360 --> 00:43:57,880
And and you go to like Native
Americans and you go to other

727
00:43:57,880 --> 00:44:01,760
cultures and go to the Maori's
and where I serve my mission in

728
00:44:01,760 --> 00:44:05,040
New Zealand, you go on there and
they'll pray for hours.

729
00:44:06,320 --> 00:44:08,880
They'll they'll keep praying
until they get the answer.

730
00:44:09,760 --> 00:44:14,360
However long, however long it
takes, they will work with this.

731
00:44:14,760 --> 00:44:18,840
And so I think sometimes there's
too many distractions.

732
00:44:18,840 --> 00:44:22,160
Our world is full of
distractions, and so you need to

733
00:44:22,160 --> 00:44:27,320
have a place where you can allow
things to come without inhibit

734
00:44:27,560 --> 00:44:32,280
inhibiting that spiritual gift.
So you sit down in a quiet

735
00:44:32,280 --> 00:44:36,320
place, all alone.
I couldn't get any peace

736
00:44:36,320 --> 00:44:38,240
anywhere.
And I finally, I took my stone

737
00:44:38,240 --> 00:44:43,840
and went into a a library and I
just held my stone and just sat

738
00:44:43,840 --> 00:44:45,880
there.
It was very peaceful, very

739
00:44:45,880 --> 00:44:48,880
quiet.
And I got answers to what I was

740
00:44:48,880 --> 00:44:52,320
looking for.
And so I began to see things

741
00:44:52,360 --> 00:44:55,960
right away, just with, you know,
just like that prayer with me

742
00:44:56,240 --> 00:45:00,880
trying to find my knife.
I didn't expect to see it in my

743
00:45:00,880 --> 00:45:04,800
mind's eye, but it came and all.
There's the answer.

744
00:45:04,800 --> 00:45:08,000
God showed me the answer and it
proved out.

745
00:45:09,160 --> 00:45:13,640
And so I think by testing it and
working with it and sometimes

746
00:45:14,200 --> 00:45:19,440
questions that you ask, maybe
maybe questions that you really

747
00:45:19,440 --> 00:45:23,120
are going to have to work hard
at, you can't just get the

748
00:45:23,120 --> 00:45:26,480
answer right away.
It takes a little bit of time.

749
00:45:28,240 --> 00:45:36,000
OK so how how does how does
holding the stone and and this

750
00:45:36,000 --> 00:45:39,840
this forgive me I'm I'm just
trying to clear this up for the

751
00:45:39,840 --> 00:45:42,360
audience here.
How does holding that stone

752
00:45:42,360 --> 00:45:47,280
while you pray help?
What is it about it that that

753
00:45:47,280 --> 00:45:50,480
allows Revelation to come more
freely?

754
00:45:51,440 --> 00:45:56,080
So going back to the concept,
like for instance, you know, the

755
00:45:56,080 --> 00:46:00,120
Lord said take your shoes off,
this is sacred ground.

756
00:46:00,560 --> 00:46:05,120
You study that out electrically,
you know you're not grounded, so

757
00:46:05,120 --> 00:46:07,560
you step on the ground with your
bare feet.

758
00:46:08,920 --> 00:46:11,640
So there may have been a lot to
that whole process of how to

759
00:46:11,640 --> 00:46:14,960
ground.
So a stone is a grounding agent.

760
00:46:14,960 --> 00:46:19,120
It's something that helps you to
connect, like I said, with the

761
00:46:19,120 --> 00:46:23,560
earth, with the, with, with the
spiritual things of nature that

762
00:46:23,560 --> 00:46:27,880
we should go back to.
And so once you have that, I

763
00:46:27,880 --> 00:46:31,480
know people.
Joseph Smith, even one of the

764
00:46:31,480 --> 00:46:34,680
revelations he had, he brought
in two guys, can't remember the

765
00:46:34,680 --> 00:46:36,520
names.
Anyway, he brought them both in

766
00:46:36,520 --> 00:46:39,600
and he laid on the ground,
spread his arms out and he says

767
00:46:39,600 --> 00:46:41,520
you lay on this arm, you lay on
this arm.

768
00:46:41,920 --> 00:46:45,600
And then he opens the vision,
this vision opens up and all

769
00:46:45,600 --> 00:46:47,440
three of them are seeing the
vision.

770
00:46:47,440 --> 00:46:50,600
And it's the vision of Adam and
Eve.

771
00:46:51,960 --> 00:46:55,240
And I've got that in one of the
books here.

772
00:46:55,240 --> 00:46:59,200
But but it's, you know, that's
earthing, that's grounding,

773
00:46:59,200 --> 00:47:02,360
that's praying, that's kneeling.
You know, there's something

774
00:47:02,360 --> 00:47:04,440
about kneeling.
Why kneel on the ground?

775
00:47:04,440 --> 00:47:06,760
You know what?
Well, you know, it's kind of a

776
00:47:06,760 --> 00:47:09,920
grounding mechanism.
That's how I I see seer stones.

777
00:47:09,920 --> 00:47:13,160
This kind of a grounding
mechanism, especially if it

778
00:47:13,160 --> 00:47:18,920
really is a spiritual stone.
You know, it would just add more

779
00:47:19,120 --> 00:47:22,000
to that experience of prayer or
getting your answers.

780
00:47:22,840 --> 00:47:24,600
And yes, you're going to be
deceived.

781
00:47:25,160 --> 00:47:27,200
There are going to be deceptions
even in prayer.

782
00:47:27,320 --> 00:47:29,840
I'm going to pray.
Oh, got the wrong answer, you

783
00:47:29,840 --> 00:47:32,440
know.
And so you it's just by trial

784
00:47:32,440 --> 00:47:34,120
and error.
And after you get to where you

785
00:47:34,120 --> 00:47:37,520
can understand things more
clearly.

786
00:47:38,360 --> 00:47:40,480
That's why the seer stones work
better.

787
00:47:41,680 --> 00:47:50,440
Gotcha and And how?
If someone was to try this what

788
00:47:50,440 --> 00:47:53,920
could they expect to have happen
the first few go rounds and

789
00:47:53,920 --> 00:47:56,840
using the stone?
Is is the answer to their

790
00:47:56,840 --> 00:48:00,520
prayers gonna feel different Are
they going to be more

791
00:48:00,520 --> 00:48:01,640
pronounced?
What What?

792
00:48:01,680 --> 00:48:05,400
What can you?
Expect I think the prayers would

793
00:48:05,400 --> 00:48:09,920
be more pronounced.
It would reach further, it would

794
00:48:09,920 --> 00:48:14,320
have you would have more more
more grounded answers.

795
00:48:15,600 --> 00:48:19,200
Sometimes it's a focusing thing.
I'll have a stone that I kind of

796
00:48:19,200 --> 00:48:21,200
use when I want to focus on
something.

797
00:48:21,200 --> 00:48:24,680
I don't know why, but you know,
you sit there and all of a

798
00:48:24,680 --> 00:48:27,320
sudden I'm more focused.
I'm not, I'm not thinking about

799
00:48:27,320 --> 00:48:30,720
all the thousands of things that
I got to do or anything else.

800
00:48:30,720 --> 00:48:34,400
Just it's just a focusing type
of mechanism.

801
00:48:39,080 --> 00:48:44,280
Are there any, are there any
properties within stones that

802
00:48:44,520 --> 00:48:48,200
these these stones that seem to
be universal to everybody,

803
00:48:48,200 --> 00:48:51,000
right.
Everybody seems to have a good

804
00:48:51,000 --> 00:48:57,080
experience with this compound of
of stone or this element or or

805
00:48:57,080 --> 00:49:03,120
what have you.
Well, I I think, I think going

806
00:49:03,120 --> 00:49:08,960
back to let's say a crystal or
an Obsidian, you know, the

807
00:49:08,960 --> 00:49:12,800
Indians were fascinated with
Obsidians, which is glass.

808
00:49:14,800 --> 00:49:20,560
Those would be fairly good.
But also I I think those are

809
00:49:20,560 --> 00:49:24,960
just OK, I can see something,
OK, that's that would be, but to

810
00:49:24,960 --> 00:49:27,600
me it would be static.
It'd be just all over the place.

811
00:49:28,080 --> 00:49:30,840
So I'd want to, I'd want to
actually have something a little

812
00:49:30,840 --> 00:49:33,960
more earthy.
And some of the ones that I've

813
00:49:33,960 --> 00:49:41,960
had good luck with are are,
yeah, I had good luck with kind

814
00:49:41,960 --> 00:49:46,120
of all of them, I don't know,
just different ones like river

815
00:49:46,120 --> 00:49:49,160
rocks.
River rocks seems to be a

816
00:49:49,160 --> 00:49:52,720
typical one because it's like
they've rolled and they've

817
00:49:52,720 --> 00:49:56,080
rolled and they've captured lots
of information, you know, and

818
00:49:56,440 --> 00:50:02,200
the water, water holds memory
and so the memory of the of the

819
00:50:02,200 --> 00:50:05,720
waters, you know, may even be
something that connects that

820
00:50:05,760 --> 00:50:09,920
more.
They're actually they.

821
00:50:10,080 --> 00:50:13,880
They can actually take water and
actually use it as a memory

822
00:50:13,880 --> 00:50:17,160
holder for computer information.
It's just too expensive.

823
00:50:20,240 --> 00:50:23,480
OK, so.
And that's silicon.

824
00:50:24,640 --> 00:50:28,320
Yes, Yep.
So we we've, I feel like we've

825
00:50:28,320 --> 00:50:31,600
done a good job breaking down
what seership is, what Seer

826
00:50:31,600 --> 00:50:35,680
stones are and you know how to
find them, how to use them.

827
00:50:36,320 --> 00:50:38,200
Let let me ask you this
question.

828
00:50:39,840 --> 00:50:43,560
What would you tell someone
who's who's nervous about it?

829
00:50:43,800 --> 00:50:45,680
Right.
Because again, this is one of

830
00:50:45,680 --> 00:50:51,160
those things that that that
certainly your your

831
00:50:51,160 --> 00:50:53,960
run-of-the-mill latter day St.
probably doesn't have a whole

832
00:50:53,960 --> 00:50:58,600
lot of information on and so
they might be a little freaked

833
00:50:58,600 --> 00:51:01,480
out to try to try this.
What would you tell them about

834
00:51:01,480 --> 00:51:04,520
it?
I I would say it's just the same

835
00:51:04,560 --> 00:51:07,960
as dreaming.
It's the same as you know

836
00:51:07,960 --> 00:51:12,040
praying about something it's
it's it's all the same as all

837
00:51:12,040 --> 00:51:15,640
the other mechanisms and and you
know the worst that can happen

838
00:51:15,640 --> 00:51:19,560
is you can be deceived.
Is this where my hat is and it's

839
00:51:19,560 --> 00:51:22,160
not there, you know?
Or is this what this is and

840
00:51:22,160 --> 00:51:25,400
that's not there.
Or or you would maybe see

841
00:51:25,400 --> 00:51:28,960
something and and you know,
you'd have that stupor thought

842
00:51:28,960 --> 00:51:31,040
that you'd think, hey, I'm going
to go with it anyway.

843
00:51:31,040 --> 00:51:34,920
And and it doesn't prove out.
And so it just means that you're

844
00:51:34,920 --> 00:51:38,200
just you just haven't you had
enough experiences.

845
00:51:38,200 --> 00:51:40,200
You fell off the bicycle a few
times.

846
00:51:40,480 --> 00:51:42,040
Get back up.
Keep riding.

847
00:51:42,040 --> 00:51:48,200
Pretty soon you can ride without
training wheels and and so so I

848
00:51:48,200 --> 00:51:54,480
don't I don't think that it's a
really bad thing to try new

849
00:51:54,480 --> 00:51:56,560
things and try and get this
information.

850
00:51:58,040 --> 00:52:00,440
Like I say, all the Native
Americans and all the other

851
00:52:00,440 --> 00:52:04,040
people use them.
And of course if you pray and

852
00:52:04,040 --> 00:52:08,000
just say here please help me not
to be deceived and please help

853
00:52:08,000 --> 00:52:11,840
me to get the right revelation
and please help me to understand

854
00:52:11,840 --> 00:52:14,600
or whatever all those prayers
are going to work.

855
00:52:14,600 --> 00:52:16,400
I was just going to work with
you on those things.

856
00:52:17,520 --> 00:52:20,200
It's not like the devil's going
to jump out and grab you with a

857
00:52:20,200 --> 00:52:21,800
claw or anything out of the
stone.

858
00:52:22,240 --> 00:52:23,480
It's not.
It's not.

859
00:52:23,480 --> 00:52:26,040
It's not anything like that.
Got you.

860
00:52:27,080 --> 00:52:31,760
What do you think?
What do you think the the the

861
00:52:31,800 --> 00:52:36,520
overall benefits are to the use
of of seer stones in your walk

862
00:52:36,520 --> 00:52:41,800
as a disciple of Christ?
OK, so it's enhancing the gifts

863
00:52:42,720 --> 00:52:47,200
that you may already have.
Dreaming, prayer, all of that.

864
00:52:47,800 --> 00:52:51,360
The number one thing is to
become a seer.

865
00:52:51,720 --> 00:52:53,360
A seer is greater than a
prophet.

866
00:52:53,520 --> 00:52:57,560
A seer has more advantages and
and that's seer.

867
00:52:57,560 --> 00:53:00,960
That's what Joseph became in the
very end.

868
00:53:00,960 --> 00:53:02,920
Joseph didn't need any seer
stones.

869
00:53:02,920 --> 00:53:04,640
He said that over and over.
I don't need seer.

870
00:53:04,640 --> 00:53:08,040
Stone guy came up to him one day
and said, Joseph, you have my

871
00:53:08,040 --> 00:53:10,640
book, you never read it and I
want it back.

872
00:53:10,640 --> 00:53:13,760
And he goes, oh wait, wait and
he grabs the book and he holds

873
00:53:13,760 --> 00:53:15,840
it.
And just with his seership, he

874
00:53:15,840 --> 00:53:22,760
stops and he goes, Oh my gosh, I
saw, he saw that all of the

875
00:53:22,760 --> 00:53:26,560
people in that book, they had
progressed.

876
00:53:26,560 --> 00:53:31,320
They'd gone higher because they
had died, but some of them had

877
00:53:31,320 --> 00:53:35,120
actually gone to the highest
level that there is and that

878
00:53:35,120 --> 00:53:38,920
they had been exalted and are
now creating worlds.

879
00:53:40,440 --> 00:53:47,720
That's Seership Joseph.
One time he was, he was before

880
00:53:47,720 --> 00:53:50,320
Brigham Young.
And those came, Brigham went,

881
00:53:50,440 --> 00:53:53,240
they were coming and they want
to stay in some hotel and they

882
00:53:53,240 --> 00:53:55,600
went here and they slept
somewhere else and they did

883
00:53:55,600 --> 00:53:58,120
something else.
And when Joseph said, well,

884
00:53:58,320 --> 00:54:01,080
they're coming and they'll be
here shortly.

885
00:54:01,880 --> 00:54:05,240
And he just used the seer ship.
And he said the first day they

886
00:54:05,240 --> 00:54:08,840
stayed at this, you know, place
and 2nd day they stayed at this

887
00:54:08,840 --> 00:54:10,640
place.
And the third day and while

888
00:54:10,640 --> 00:54:12,080
they're there, they they drink
this.

889
00:54:12,080 --> 00:54:14,520
And you know, he describes
everything to a tee.

890
00:54:15,440 --> 00:54:18,200
And so when he gets there,
Brigham gets there.

891
00:54:18,200 --> 00:54:22,160
And all these guys, well, all of
Joseph's friends were asking him

892
00:54:22,160 --> 00:54:24,240
about, hey, where did you stay?
What did you do?

893
00:54:24,240 --> 00:54:30,680
And it was all exactly the way
Joseph saw he did that by

894
00:54:30,680 --> 00:54:33,680
seership.
That's why they called Joseph

895
00:54:33,920 --> 00:54:38,880
the Great Seer, because he was
so accurate at it, Brigham said

896
00:54:38,880 --> 00:54:42,240
one time.
He said Joseph could look at any

897
00:54:42,280 --> 00:54:44,920
human being.
He could look at anybody and

898
00:54:44,920 --> 00:54:50,240
tell you everything about them,
everything.

899
00:54:51,160 --> 00:54:54,000
And then Brigham said.
I can't do that.

900
00:54:54,760 --> 00:54:59,200
But if I talk to him for a
little while and get kind of

901
00:54:59,360 --> 00:55:03,720
used to them, then I can see
everything about him.

902
00:55:05,040 --> 00:55:07,040
So Brigham had it, but to a
lesser degree.

903
00:55:07,640 --> 00:55:11,160
Correct.
He took a stone one time out and

904
00:55:11,480 --> 00:55:17,120
out out near Toowilla.
There was a guy that found a big

905
00:55:17,120 --> 00:55:20,880
gold mine thing and he went out
there and big gold nugget, you

906
00:55:20,880 --> 00:55:22,760
know, and he took it in to
Brigham and said here, Brigham,

907
00:55:22,760 --> 00:55:24,320
what do you think?
You know, we can save the

908
00:55:24,320 --> 00:55:25,480
people.
We're all starving.

909
00:55:25,480 --> 00:55:27,200
This is getting, this is the
greatest news ever.

910
00:55:27,200 --> 00:55:29,840
And Brigham took the stone, he
looked at it and he went over

911
00:55:29,840 --> 00:55:32,000
the window, and he kind of
looked out the window for a

912
00:55:32,000 --> 00:55:36,600
while and he came back and he
said, brother, what you found is

913
00:55:36,600 --> 00:55:42,440
an ancient Nephite mine.
And if we brought this out today

914
00:55:43,200 --> 00:55:50,520
it would ruin the Saints, but it
will be saved for a day when the

915
00:55:50,520 --> 00:55:57,440
Saints need it the most.
And then he said, and I saw that

916
00:55:57,440 --> 00:56:03,920
the Lord had hid that up, that
he has angels protecting it.

917
00:56:04,360 --> 00:56:07,600
So I went out with a friend of
mine out there near to Willa,

918
00:56:07,600 --> 00:56:10,720
and he goes up on this place
and, well, what do you feel,

919
00:56:10,720 --> 00:56:11,880
Kevin?
You know, and I'm.

920
00:56:11,880 --> 00:56:14,200
I'm kind of in the mode, you
know, I mean, sometimes you're

921
00:56:14,200 --> 00:56:16,920
on, sometimes you're off.
Don't get the skirts of seer

922
00:56:16,920 --> 00:56:19,000
stone.
Sometimes Joseph Smith got mad

923
00:56:19,000 --> 00:56:20,960
at his wife or she got mad at
him.

924
00:56:20,960 --> 00:56:23,000
However, that worked.
And they were kind of in a

925
00:56:23,000 --> 00:56:24,360
battle.
And he went up trying to use

926
00:56:24,360 --> 00:56:25,960
seer stone.
Couldn't use it at all.

927
00:56:26,960 --> 00:56:29,000
He asked the Lord, why'd you
shut me down?

928
00:56:29,680 --> 00:56:32,040
Well, you need to go make it
right with your wife.

929
00:56:32,680 --> 00:56:35,560
Can't come in here and use the
sacred stone in that mode.

930
00:56:36,600 --> 00:56:38,800
So he had to go down and get it
all straightened up, Come back

931
00:56:38,800 --> 00:56:39,720
up.
There it was.

932
00:56:40,040 --> 00:56:42,680
So I went out there, this guy's
leading me.

933
00:56:42,680 --> 00:56:46,400
And as I'm walking, all of a
sudden I got weaker and weaker

934
00:56:46,400 --> 00:56:50,120
and weaker with every step.
And I'm like, Oh my gosh, this

935
00:56:50,120 --> 00:56:52,720
is like something.
It's not an evil feeling, but

936
00:56:52,720 --> 00:56:57,800
it's something is stopping me.
And I'm like, back up a little

937
00:56:57,800 --> 00:57:01,440
ways feel better and I'm going
turn back at this guy and go,

938
00:57:01,440 --> 00:57:03,160
what the heck are you playing
games with?

939
00:57:03,160 --> 00:57:06,760
What's going on here?
And he starts laughing and then

940
00:57:06,760 --> 00:57:10,520
he says that was that, that was
that mine that this guy had

941
00:57:10,520 --> 00:57:14,600
taken to Brigham and I was
feeling the angels stopping.

942
00:57:17,640 --> 00:57:20,560
And so that's so that's kind of
a seership.

943
00:57:20,560 --> 00:57:24,480
That's yes, they progress.
And I think as you start working

944
00:57:24,480 --> 00:57:29,160
in seership mode, I I sat here
with a gentleman one time.

945
00:57:29,160 --> 00:57:34,120
He's well known and has written
many books on Isaiah and he

946
00:57:34,120 --> 00:57:36,880
walks in and one day we were
talking about doing some

947
00:57:36,880 --> 00:57:41,560
printing somewhere and without
even telling him anything about

948
00:57:41,560 --> 00:57:45,000
it at all, he goes, you should
go with this company and they're

949
00:57:45,000 --> 00:57:46,840
the same one.
And he names the company.

950
00:57:46,840 --> 00:57:50,400
I'm like, wow, that was weird.
And I go, wow, that's that's

951
00:57:50,400 --> 00:57:52,640
pretty impressive.
And because of this and this and

952
00:57:52,640 --> 00:57:56,520
this, well, that's that's pretty
good.

953
00:57:57,000 --> 00:58:00,480
That's that's that type of thing
we're trying to work towards.

954
00:58:00,920 --> 00:58:05,760
I have many people that I've
taught and they're way better

955
00:58:05,760 --> 00:58:09,640
than I am.
That girl, she, she was right

956
00:58:09,640 --> 00:58:12,080
on.
I mean, she really saw things

957
00:58:12,240 --> 00:58:21,400
very well, very well.
You know, and I I when when you

958
00:58:21,400 --> 00:58:24,560
talked about seership, one of
the things that came to my mind

959
00:58:25,000 --> 00:58:30,360
was the account of Lucy Mac
Smith when Joseph would start

960
00:58:30,360 --> 00:58:34,880
talking to his family about the
Nephites.

961
00:58:35,080 --> 00:58:37,120
Right.
And she said it was the most

962
00:58:37,120 --> 00:58:42,200
peculiar scene because he's not
just describing something, he's

963
00:58:42,200 --> 00:58:44,600
read because he didn't really
have the plates yet.

964
00:58:45,600 --> 00:58:51,600
But he's able to tap into
something that allows him to be

965
00:58:51,600 --> 00:58:55,800
able to see not just in the here
and now or forwards, but also

966
00:58:55,800 --> 00:59:01,080
backwards, right.
And I find that very, very

967
00:59:01,080 --> 00:59:04,520
fascinating, especially to
looking back part.

968
00:59:06,880 --> 00:59:11,920
I think so often we as as Latter
Day Saints and Mormons, no

969
00:59:11,920 --> 00:59:15,040
matter where we're at in in our
walk with Christ, whether we're

970
00:59:15,040 --> 00:59:18,560
a fundamentalist and called to
that path or or a mainstream LDS

971
00:59:18,560 --> 00:59:27,600
person, we we tend to get happy
or complacent with faith.

972
00:59:28,040 --> 00:59:29,880
And I think faith is a beautiful
thing.

973
00:59:29,880 --> 00:59:33,720
We all have to exercise faith,
but I think one of the messages

974
00:59:33,720 --> 00:59:38,000
of Joseph Smith as well is that
that faith can progress into

975
00:59:38,000 --> 00:59:43,920
knowledge.
And when when we hear accounts

976
00:59:43,920 --> 00:59:47,440
of what Joseph was saying, you
know, with his family recounting

977
00:59:47,920 --> 00:59:52,800
this ancient people, you get the
feeling that he wasn't talking

978
00:59:52,800 --> 00:59:55,280
by faith, he was talking by
knowledge.

979
00:59:56,200 --> 00:59:58,920
And I I find that being that
that.

980
01:00:03,160 --> 01:00:09,160
That opportunity to look back
and maybe receive not just a

981
01:00:09,160 --> 01:00:12,280
witness to our faith, but maybe
turning that faith into

982
01:00:12,280 --> 01:00:15,280
knowledge that no, I do.
I do know that the Book of

983
01:00:15,280 --> 01:00:19,160
Mormon is real, or I know the
Savior's Atonement was real.

984
01:00:20,120 --> 01:00:28,280
That's a powerful tool to help
us progress and and I I feel

985
01:00:28,280 --> 01:00:31,280
like we're shortchanging
ourselves if we don't at least

986
01:00:31,280 --> 01:00:32,800
give that a go somehow.
I.

987
01:00:33,880 --> 01:00:36,080
I agree.
You know the thing you're you're

988
01:00:36,080 --> 01:00:38,800
describing about Lucy telling
about Joseph?

989
01:00:39,280 --> 01:00:44,360
She said he saw every detail and
people would ask him, well, what

990
01:00:44,360 --> 01:00:47,680
kind of clothes did they wear?
What kind of well, their armor

991
01:00:47,680 --> 01:00:51,080
was this and had these symbols
and it has this and he's seeing

992
01:00:51,080 --> 01:00:53,400
it in his mind.
He's just looking in this

993
01:00:53,400 --> 01:00:57,560
distance, like you can see the
whole picture and that and that

994
01:00:57,560 --> 01:01:02,240
is that is that pure seership
where they're really seeing

995
01:01:02,240 --> 01:01:04,880
that.
It's it's a it's an absolute,

996
01:01:05,160 --> 01:01:09,160
real thing.
You know, and as I think you

997
01:01:09,160 --> 01:01:11,840
know as I think about the
winding up scenes here that are

998
01:01:11,840 --> 01:01:17,200
coming before judgement really
comes.

999
01:01:17,200 --> 01:01:21,000
I I feel like that that's a tool
that could just be invaluable.

1000
01:01:21,160 --> 01:01:27,160
That seership being able to
maybe, you know have the ability

1001
01:01:27,160 --> 01:01:31,400
to to kind of know what someone
is angling towards, right.

1002
01:01:33,120 --> 01:01:36,320
Something that goes a bit beyond
discernment and starts entering

1003
01:01:36,320 --> 01:01:41,760
the realm of of knowledge again
or certain events on how they're

1004
01:01:41,760 --> 01:01:46,240
going to play out.
I find those to be things that

1005
01:01:46,240 --> 01:01:53,320
that certainly I would want to
have in in in my back pocket, so

1006
01:01:53,320 --> 01:01:56,720
to speak, or the arrow in my
quiver of being able to to

1007
01:01:56,720 --> 01:01:59,960
navigate these tougher times
because they are confusing

1008
01:01:59,960 --> 01:02:03,840
times, right?
There's I don't think the lines

1009
01:02:03,840 --> 01:02:08,480
between light and dark in the
political realm exist anymore.

1010
01:02:08,560 --> 01:02:11,680
I think it's all muddled
together and and I think that

1011
01:02:11,680 --> 01:02:16,760
gift of seership is going to be
more and more needed as time

1012
01:02:16,760 --> 01:02:19,400
moves along.
I agree.

1013
01:02:19,960 --> 01:02:23,400
I I saw someday we can get into
the dreams.

1014
01:02:23,440 --> 01:02:27,880
But I I've had prophetic dreams,
very, very intense on my

1015
01:02:27,880 --> 01:02:31,880
mission.
I've had somewhere for 5 minutes

1016
01:02:32,240 --> 01:02:34,440
in the future.
I I had dreams of the future.

1017
01:02:34,440 --> 01:02:37,160
And then they would start
happening and I would go, oh,

1018
01:02:37,160 --> 01:02:38,960
it's a deja vu.
Here it goes.

1019
01:02:39,280 --> 01:02:42,040
And for 15 minutes I could tell
you everything that was going to

1020
01:02:42,040 --> 01:02:44,120
happen.
This guy's going to say this,

1021
01:02:44,120 --> 01:02:46,360
this guy's going to say that.
This guy's going to say this.

1022
01:02:46,360 --> 01:02:51,160
This guy's going to say that.
I've had a dream where 5 minutes

1023
01:02:51,160 --> 01:02:55,760
after I had the dream, the dream
came to pass exactly like I saw

1024
01:02:55,760 --> 01:02:59,880
it and so and that's a whole
another story about about

1025
01:02:59,880 --> 01:03:05,320
dreams.
But in the future, I had a dream

1026
01:03:05,320 --> 01:03:10,520
that there was a group of I
would call us, you know, Zion

1027
01:03:10,520 --> 01:03:15,000
people and the kids were out
playing or doing something and a

1028
01:03:15,000 --> 01:03:19,280
bad guy came and and hurt them
and raped them and did terrible

1029
01:03:19,280 --> 01:03:23,000
things and it kept happening and
and finally the the the

1030
01:03:23,000 --> 01:03:25,920
gentleman came and they prayed
and they they said, well look at

1031
01:03:25,920 --> 01:03:30,200
Skip that guy he can go find
this bad guy And and so they

1032
01:03:30,200 --> 01:03:32,840
came to him and said can you
find him And he says yes.

1033
01:03:33,240 --> 01:03:34,640
And he goes, do you have a seer
stone?

1034
01:03:34,640 --> 01:03:37,440
He goes, yeah, I do.
And so this guy took off and he

1035
01:03:37,440 --> 01:03:41,360
went and and he'd look in his
stone and every day he'd get a

1036
01:03:41,360 --> 01:03:44,400
little bit late there.
You know, the fire be put out

1037
01:03:44,400 --> 01:03:47,480
and you know it's too late.
And finally he says, oh, I'm

1038
01:03:47,480 --> 01:03:49,440
doing this wrong.
I need to see where he's going

1039
01:03:49,440 --> 01:03:54,080
to be in two days, so that way I
can get there early and then be

1040
01:03:54,080 --> 01:03:55,840
ready.
And so then he did and then he

1041
01:03:55,840 --> 01:03:58,760
shot the bad guy and everybody's
happy and all that.

1042
01:03:59,440 --> 01:04:01,800
That was all seership.
You know, It was, it was

1043
01:04:01,800 --> 01:04:04,840
something that that the good
guys used to get the bad guys.

1044
01:04:06,160 --> 01:04:09,400
Right, correct.
Let let me ask you this

1045
01:04:09,480 --> 01:04:12,760
question.
What do you think prevents

1046
01:04:12,760 --> 01:04:17,280
people from being able to to
have seership, right?

1047
01:04:17,280 --> 01:04:18,000
What?
What?

1048
01:04:18,240 --> 01:04:23,600
What usually inhibits people
from being able to acquire, I

1049
01:04:23,600 --> 01:04:31,200
guess, and exercise seership.
So, so Jesus came to a city and

1050
01:04:31,200 --> 01:04:36,080
he went in and he could do no
miracles and he said because of

1051
01:04:36,080 --> 01:04:40,040
the unbelief they just didn't
believe it could be done.

1052
01:04:40,600 --> 01:04:45,720
And and I think, I think the
number one problem and as I see

1053
01:04:45,720 --> 01:04:51,560
it with seership is the concept
that everybody thinks that that

1054
01:04:51,560 --> 01:04:54,520
stone is going to open up into a
full vision.

1055
01:04:55,640 --> 01:04:58,400
You know, it's going to be a big
visionary thing.

1056
01:04:58,480 --> 01:05:01,080
You know the light comes, I'm
going to see it all and it's

1057
01:05:01,080 --> 01:05:02,520
going to be right in the middle
of the day.

1058
01:05:03,400 --> 01:05:07,400
That's not how 90% of seership
works.

1059
01:05:07,920 --> 01:05:11,720
Most of the stories we've talked
about have been people seeing it

1060
01:05:11,720 --> 01:05:14,600
in their mind's eye.
Joseph would sit there and look

1061
01:05:14,600 --> 01:05:17,840
up in the in the sky, and I
don't think he's getting a full

1062
01:05:17,840 --> 01:05:20,520
vision.
You know, it's not opening up

1063
01:05:20,520 --> 01:05:23,000
and he's seeing it.
It's just that it's just that

1064
01:05:23,000 --> 01:05:25,800
he's seeing it in that mind's
eye.

1065
01:05:25,800 --> 01:05:29,320
The Lord's showing him in his
mind what they look like.

1066
01:05:29,400 --> 01:05:31,400
The Nephites, he's sitting at
the table.

1067
01:05:31,640 --> 01:05:36,000
He's just sitting there looking
and he's seeing it in his mind,

1068
01:05:36,600 --> 01:05:39,720
crystal clear.
Their armor was like this.

1069
01:05:39,720 --> 01:05:43,720
It looked like that and that's
what I'm telling people.

1070
01:05:43,720 --> 01:05:46,640
That's what Sears.
Now it's not so scary because

1071
01:05:46,640 --> 01:05:50,400
everybody has things where they
see it in their mind's eye like

1072
01:05:50,400 --> 01:05:55,400
this gentleman going and getting
the toy behind the piano and and

1073
01:05:55,400 --> 01:05:58,640
so that's so the unbelief not
believing it will work,

1074
01:05:59,720 --> 01:06:03,800
understanding how Sears Stones
work that that just you're going

1075
01:06:03,800 --> 01:06:07,880
to see an imprint or an image in
your mind and rather than a big

1076
01:06:07,880 --> 01:06:12,440
open vision they can work that
way but not very frequently.

1077
01:06:12,960 --> 01:06:16,920
And then and then last but not
least is they keep trying and

1078
01:06:16,920 --> 01:06:20,040
working at it.
I mean even God says that when

1079
01:06:20,040 --> 01:06:24,000
you press forever trying like
the like, he gives the parable

1080
01:06:24,000 --> 01:06:27,120
of the the judge and the woman
that just keeps after him and

1081
01:06:27,120 --> 01:06:29,120
after him.
OK, fine, take it.

1082
01:06:29,120 --> 01:06:35,840
You know, after a while, if we
keep working so hard, the Lord

1083
01:06:35,840 --> 01:06:40,320
will give it to us.
It's just like any kid you see

1084
01:06:40,320 --> 01:06:43,520
your kid and he just working as
something so hard and so hard

1085
01:06:43,520 --> 01:06:46,160
and so hard.
After a while you become very

1086
01:06:46,160 --> 01:06:49,640
compassionate with him.
You really want them to succeed.

1087
01:06:51,200 --> 01:06:56,000
But you have to work at it has
to be something, and of course

1088
01:06:56,560 --> 01:07:00,040
it needs to be done in solitude.
You know where it's a little

1089
01:07:00,040 --> 01:07:03,320
bit, unless you're not trained.
Joseph was right there.

1090
01:07:03,320 --> 01:07:06,000
He was trained.
He could see things, but you

1091
01:07:06,000 --> 01:07:09,840
need to be in a quiet area and
meditate and think and try and

1092
01:07:09,840 --> 01:07:13,320
see it interesting.
What?

1093
01:07:14,280 --> 01:07:17,720
Let me ask you this question,
'cause right now I know that the

1094
01:07:17,800 --> 01:07:23,240
the whole seer stone thing is
hotly contested about, you know,

1095
01:07:25,200 --> 01:07:31,000
is it actually historical 'cause
we we, you know, the the LDS

1096
01:07:31,000 --> 01:07:34,440
church kind of claim came clean
here a few years back and said,

1097
01:07:34,440 --> 01:07:38,200
you know, yes, Joseph used the
seer stone and you'd put the

1098
01:07:38,200 --> 01:07:41,880
stone in the hat and then look
into the hat and see certain

1099
01:07:41,880 --> 01:07:45,120
things and that freaked a lot of
people out.

1100
01:07:45,120 --> 01:07:48,160
It didn't fit a narrative that
that they had been raised with.

1101
01:07:49,840 --> 01:07:55,600
When when someone encounters
this, well, first two questions.

1102
01:07:57,160 --> 01:08:00,840
Is it historical?
Do we know beyond a shadow of a

1103
01:08:00,840 --> 01:08:02,720
doubt that seer stones were
used?

1104
01:08:03,600 --> 01:08:08,280
And then my second question is,
when someone first hears about

1105
01:08:08,280 --> 01:08:12,320
this, what's your advice to them
when they start getting freaked

1106
01:08:12,320 --> 01:08:17,240
out about it?
Like if somebody were to come to

1107
01:08:17,240 --> 01:08:20,120
me and got freaked out about,
you know, the Sears stones and

1108
01:08:20,200 --> 01:08:22,200
whether they were there, is that
what you're kind of saying?

1109
01:08:22,200 --> 01:08:25,040
Yeah, that that.
You know it it kind of freaks

1110
01:08:25,040 --> 01:08:27,200
them out a little bit because it
doesn't fit the narrative that

1111
01:08:27,200 --> 01:08:28,240
they were raised.
Oh, I see.

1112
01:08:29,080 --> 01:08:30,920
I see.
Yeah, Well, you know, there's a

1113
01:08:30,920 --> 01:08:34,240
lot of the early teachings of of
the church that have just kind

1114
01:08:34,240 --> 01:08:38,240
of got tucked under the carpet
here there.

1115
01:08:38,439 --> 01:08:42,120
There was even dousing used, you
know, and people, what's

1116
01:08:42,120 --> 01:08:44,040
dousing?
You know, Well, that's

1117
01:08:44,040 --> 01:08:45,000
witchcraft.
Yeah.

1118
01:08:45,000 --> 01:08:48,680
It's oh, wait, it's it's what do
they call it, a witching?

1119
01:08:48,680 --> 01:08:51,120
Well, you know, they're going to
witch the well, you know, and

1120
01:08:51,120 --> 01:08:54,120
all this stuff.
And there's a story of a Mormon

1121
01:08:54,120 --> 01:08:58,000
Bishop that was here in Santa
Quinn where I live and out on

1122
01:08:58,000 --> 01:09:03,520
Utah Lake the little boy fell
through the ice and man the

1123
01:09:03,520 --> 01:09:06,200
current took him down under the
ice and they were running and

1124
01:09:06,560 --> 01:09:09,680
you know they lost him and and
he died and you know two or

1125
01:09:09,680 --> 01:09:12,680
three days, you know this And
finally they came to the Bishop

1126
01:09:12,680 --> 01:09:16,760
and said Bishop, you know we we
lost this boy and the parents

1127
01:09:16,760 --> 01:09:20,359
just want to get the body and
man he went into a tirade.

1128
01:09:20,359 --> 01:09:23,920
He's like why didn't you come
right then you I could have gone

1129
01:09:23,920 --> 01:09:27,880
and saved him and and they said
well how.

1130
01:09:27,880 --> 01:09:30,840
And he says go get me a a lock
of his hair, you know, off his

1131
01:09:30,840 --> 01:09:32,720
pillow or whatever, you know,
get me some hair.

1132
01:09:33,000 --> 01:09:34,319
They got it.
And he had this little

1133
01:09:34,319 --> 01:09:37,439
instrument where he had like a
horseshoe and then it kind of

1134
01:09:37,439 --> 01:09:41,800
come out with a rod like a like
you know a gas welding rod you

1135
01:09:41,800 --> 01:09:45,080
know type thing.
It was pretty long and and and

1136
01:09:45,080 --> 01:09:48,000
then on it he got a little jar,
you know a mining jar.

1137
01:09:48,000 --> 01:09:51,840
They put gold in and had the
little lid and he soldered that

1138
01:09:51,840 --> 01:09:55,880
on there and and and then he had
the the hair and stuck it in the

1139
01:09:55,880 --> 01:09:58,920
glass.
And then he went around and and

1140
01:09:58,920 --> 01:10:01,080
as he went around he went in a
full circle.

1141
01:10:01,840 --> 01:10:05,400
And as he went around like this
like and to like this is that

1142
01:10:05,400 --> 01:10:09,560
frequency I'm talking about all
of a sudden the rod went dip,

1143
01:10:11,240 --> 01:10:12,800
you know dip.
And then he went a little bit

1144
01:10:12,800 --> 01:10:15,200
for a dip and he went OK, this
is it.

1145
01:10:15,200 --> 01:10:16,920
And then he started running that
way.

1146
01:10:17,240 --> 01:10:20,720
So he was just going and he was
just following that rod and it

1147
01:10:20,720 --> 01:10:23,080
just kept going and going and
going and he went all the way

1148
01:10:23,080 --> 01:10:27,600
down and it was like a mile away
almost, you know, And finally,

1149
01:10:27,920 --> 01:10:29,680
you know, he's, he's getting
real close to it.

1150
01:10:29,680 --> 01:10:33,560
And as he got real close, the
rod bent all the way down and

1151
01:10:33,560 --> 01:10:36,200
pointed straight down into the
ice.

1152
01:10:37,240 --> 01:10:40,120
We kind of went past it and it
come up and went like this.

1153
01:10:40,480 --> 01:10:43,880
He tested it around on a circle
and he came and he drew a little

1154
01:10:43,880 --> 01:10:47,000
circle in the snow and he says,
all right boys, right there,

1155
01:10:47,000 --> 01:10:49,600
that's where he is.
And they started chipping at

1156
01:10:49,600 --> 01:10:53,080
this thing and they dug it all
out and there's the boy, there's

1157
01:10:53,080 --> 01:10:55,520
his head, pulled him up, took
him to his mom.

1158
01:10:56,960 --> 01:11:00,720
Now that's a little bit strange,
but when you study things out,

1159
01:11:00,720 --> 01:11:05,240
frequency and vibration and how
all this works in in the

1160
01:11:05,240 --> 01:11:08,000
electronic world, not.
And maybe it's working in the

1161
01:11:08,000 --> 01:11:11,680
spiritual world too, but just
electronically it's it's

1162
01:11:11,680 --> 01:11:16,360
gravitating to the same thing.
It's pulling like a magnet to

1163
01:11:16,360 --> 01:11:18,840
the same the boy to his hair
type thing.

1164
01:11:20,360 --> 01:11:23,080
Miners used it all the time.
I mean I've been in mining and I

1165
01:11:23,160 --> 01:11:25,160
then these miners are out there
all the time.

1166
01:11:25,160 --> 01:11:27,520
I have a friend that does it.
There's all kinds of people that

1167
01:11:27,520 --> 01:11:30,520
are really good at at this sort
of thing.

1168
01:11:30,760 --> 01:11:34,040
So it's it's a narrative that's
different than what we have.

1169
01:11:34,280 --> 01:11:36,040
That was called the Rod of
Aaron.

1170
01:11:37,680 --> 01:11:40,240
We were in the doctorate
covenants for it talks about the

1171
01:11:40,240 --> 01:11:43,600
Rod of Aaron in the early days
it before they changed the

1172
01:11:43,600 --> 01:11:47,040
scriptures on that.
It talked about a rod and it was

1173
01:11:47,040 --> 01:11:51,440
a real rod that they used and it
was there.

1174
01:11:51,440 --> 01:11:55,840
It was accurate and used this
thing and so I think sear stones

1175
01:11:56,920 --> 01:12:00,080
I think people are just afraid
of them because oh a couple

1176
01:12:00,080 --> 01:12:03,720
people got deceived.
But how many others use them.

1177
01:12:03,720 --> 01:12:07,800
I mean my dad's book here I I
I'll show you that this is a

1178
01:12:07,800 --> 01:12:11,600
book and it's called Sears and
Sear Stones short little book

1179
01:12:11,600 --> 01:12:14,240
but it gives you all those
histories in the references to

1180
01:12:14,240 --> 01:12:18,320
where they were found.
And and this is another one

1181
01:12:18,480 --> 01:12:22,840
about Joseph Smith Seer stones
and it's called Joseph Smith

1182
01:12:22,840 --> 01:12:25,400
Seer Stones.
And so you can look it up and

1183
01:12:25,400 --> 01:12:28,720
find a little bit more about
each of the stones that he had.

1184
01:12:29,600 --> 01:12:32,160
Fascinating.
So, so there is actual history

1185
01:12:32,160 --> 01:12:35,360
behind this.
This isn't just folklore, so to

1186
01:12:35,360 --> 01:12:40,520
speak.
OK, so Philo Devil stole, I

1187
01:12:40,520 --> 01:12:43,520
guess, took off of the mantle at
Joseph.

1188
01:12:43,520 --> 01:12:47,600
After Joseph was killed, a stone
that was kind of had a round

1189
01:12:47,600 --> 01:12:51,440
hole in it.
And that stone went to Philo

1190
01:12:51,440 --> 01:12:53,160
Dibble.
He's the one that made the death

1191
01:12:53,160 --> 01:12:58,880
masks of Joseph and Hiram.
And then that stone was passed

1192
01:12:58,880 --> 01:13:03,400
down to a fellow dream miner
with my dad, Norman Pierce.

1193
01:13:03,800 --> 01:13:09,400
And then Norman Pierce had
promised to give it to my dad in

1194
01:13:09,400 --> 01:13:13,000
a will because my because he
said here, take it around, show

1195
01:13:13,000 --> 01:13:15,120
it to people.
And Ogden, you wrote a book on

1196
01:13:15,120 --> 01:13:17,920
it and people could look at it
and see and, you know, people

1197
01:13:17,920 --> 01:13:19,800
didn't understand it had to use
it or what it was.

1198
01:13:20,480 --> 01:13:22,040
But it was there.
It was very interesting.

1199
01:13:22,040 --> 01:13:25,320
Stone.
And and I used that when I was a

1200
01:13:25,320 --> 01:13:29,160
young man.
And that stone was very

1201
01:13:29,160 --> 01:13:33,160
accurate, very accurate.
My dad handed it to me like you

1202
01:13:33,160 --> 01:13:34,440
did everywhere.
You see anything?

1203
01:13:34,520 --> 01:13:37,720
Yeah.
Oh, I see this right away.

1204
01:13:39,000 --> 01:13:41,520
Wow.
All right.

1205
01:13:41,640 --> 01:13:46,760
Well, last question here.
Is a seer stone something that

1206
01:13:46,760 --> 01:13:49,600
that you should bank on using
your whole life?

1207
01:13:49,600 --> 01:13:53,680
Or is is a seer stone simply a
crutch to get you to where you

1208
01:13:53,680 --> 01:13:59,400
can be where Joseph was?
Ideally where you can just do

1209
01:13:59,400 --> 01:14:03,880
that when you oh, go ahead.
But there's times you may have

1210
01:14:03,880 --> 01:14:05,920
to revert.
Maybe you're not in tune enough,

1211
01:14:06,240 --> 01:14:08,200
you know, you back grab the
stone like I did.

1212
01:14:08,200 --> 01:14:10,400
I had to be more focused.
I grabbed the stone.

1213
01:14:10,920 --> 01:14:16,080
I was around the earth and that
helped a lot and and so that's

1214
01:14:17,040 --> 01:14:20,480
typical of how I see seership.
You should be to the point where

1215
01:14:20,480 --> 01:14:23,080
Joseph was.
You don't need a seer stone.

1216
01:14:23,400 --> 01:14:26,360
It just comes.
You've used it enough, you know.

1217
01:14:27,320 --> 01:14:30,040
When do you know it's you've
reached that point when you you

1218
01:14:30,040 --> 01:14:32,520
wouldn't need one anymore.
Because you start seeing

1219
01:14:32,520 --> 01:14:34,520
everything you want to see.
OK.

1220
01:14:35,120 --> 01:14:37,280
All right.
And then when that vision maybe

1221
01:14:37,280 --> 01:14:39,800
gets a little cloudy, that's
when you know you got to go back

1222
01:14:39,800 --> 01:14:41,840
and.
Go back or straighten out your

1223
01:14:41,840 --> 01:14:46,440
life or go go apologize or or
sometimes.

1224
01:14:46,440 --> 01:14:49,520
Sometimes you don't use it.
And if you don't use it, you

1225
01:14:49,520 --> 01:14:51,640
lose it.
You know, you're just not, you

1226
01:14:51,640 --> 01:14:56,840
know, I after my near death, I
had all these gifts and and I

1227
01:14:56,840 --> 01:14:59,320
was at a restaurant over here
and the guy said tell me about

1228
01:14:59,320 --> 01:15:02,240
that woman.
And I started telling him, oh,

1229
01:15:02,240 --> 01:15:06,000
she's 16, This happened.
She had to go to this hospital

1230
01:15:06,000 --> 01:15:08,440
and she had to do this.
And then she got on drugs.

1231
01:15:08,440 --> 01:15:11,320
And you know, I went through the
whole life, what color or

1232
01:15:11,320 --> 01:15:15,040
favorite color was this that I
went through everything and and

1233
01:15:15,040 --> 01:15:17,360
he just, you know, he stood
there with his mouth open and he

1234
01:15:17,360 --> 01:15:20,280
goes, wow, nobody knows that
stuff.

1235
01:15:20,280 --> 01:15:23,880
I'm her best friend and she's
only confided in me and a lot of

1236
01:15:23,880 --> 01:15:27,000
that.
So it kind of freaked him out a

1237
01:15:27,000 --> 01:15:29,080
little bit, got a little
freaked.

1238
01:15:30,200 --> 01:15:34,240
I try not to use it too much
around too many people because I

1239
01:15:34,240 --> 01:15:37,200
don't know how to handle it.
If you and and you can see

1240
01:15:37,200 --> 01:15:40,360
things they don't they don't
like people don't like everybody

1241
01:15:40,360 --> 01:15:45,280
knowing what the.
But you know state presidents

1242
01:15:45,280 --> 01:15:46,880
and some of the mission
president.

1243
01:15:46,880 --> 01:15:49,920
My mission president was that
the way he could just look at

1244
01:15:49,920 --> 01:15:52,200
anybody there.
John Arlassery look at these

1245
01:15:52,200 --> 01:15:56,080
guys and when we first got to
the mission field he just looked

1246
01:15:56,080 --> 01:15:58,920
over his Mr. President told me
nothing handed me the keys

1247
01:15:58,920 --> 01:16:00,120
that's it.
Off he went.

1248
01:16:00,560 --> 01:16:02,800
And he says he looked over the
whole audience and he said,

1249
01:16:03,280 --> 01:16:05,360
anybody want to go home?
Anybody want to leave?

1250
01:16:05,360 --> 01:16:07,480
And a couple guys, yeah, I want
to go home.

1251
01:16:07,520 --> 01:16:08,440
All right.
There's the door.

1252
01:16:08,440 --> 01:16:11,680
We'll send you home, you know.
And then one guy, he stopped and

1253
01:16:11,680 --> 01:16:13,680
he said that my own man right
there stand up.

1254
01:16:13,680 --> 01:16:15,680
And he stood up and he says,
you're going home.

1255
01:16:16,960 --> 01:16:20,320
I'm sending you home.
And I'm not even, I'm not even

1256
01:16:20,320 --> 01:16:25,040
going to divulge all the stuff
that I just saw in you.

1257
01:16:26,040 --> 01:16:29,040
And the kid bowed his head and
out the door he went, well, we

1258
01:16:29,040 --> 01:16:31,640
all know about that kid.
He had a white handbook,

1259
01:16:32,280 --> 01:16:35,320
missionary handbook, and he put
the date where he broke every

1260
01:16:35,320 --> 01:16:40,480
rule in the handbook.
He was so excited because he

1261
01:16:40,480 --> 01:16:43,560
broke every single one of them.
I mean, even chasing girls and

1262
01:16:43,760 --> 01:16:47,160
stuff for that mission
president, he saw that he had

1263
01:16:47,160 --> 01:16:48,880
that serious.
Wow.

1264
01:16:51,160 --> 01:16:53,840
OK, final question for real this
time.

1265
01:16:53,840 --> 01:16:55,920
I keep thinking of questions as
we're talking here.

1266
01:16:56,320 --> 01:16:59,080
That's good.
What, What do you think is the

1267
01:16:59,080 --> 01:17:02,800
most misunderstood aspect of
seer ships?

1268
01:17:03,320 --> 01:17:10,440
Of seer ship and seer stones.
How they work, that it's not

1269
01:17:10,440 --> 01:17:15,720
just a big vision, it's it works
in your mind's eye.

1270
01:17:15,720 --> 01:17:18,600
It's where you're seeing it in
your mind's eye.

1271
01:17:19,280 --> 01:17:21,280
You're.
And the only way I could explain

1272
01:17:21,280 --> 01:17:24,240
it to other people was like your
imagination.

1273
01:17:24,240 --> 01:17:27,000
You see a white elephant in your
mind's eye.

1274
01:17:27,040 --> 01:17:30,240
Can you see the white elephant?
People can see it in their

1275
01:17:30,240 --> 01:17:32,920
mind's eye.
And that's how they they see

1276
01:17:32,920 --> 01:17:36,000
things.
And and is that exercise there

1277
01:17:36,000 --> 01:17:39,520
that you just described, is that
something that kind of stretch

1278
01:17:39,520 --> 01:17:44,160
that a little bit and be able to
get get accustomed to to using

1279
01:17:44,160 --> 01:17:45,600
that?
Correct.

1280
01:17:46,120 --> 01:17:50,280
And I I, I sometimes get to
where I I'm not seeing things,

1281
01:17:50,280 --> 01:17:52,040
I'm not seeing things, not
focusing.

1282
01:17:52,960 --> 01:17:55,480
And so then I have to go back
and say, OK, I'm going to

1283
01:17:55,480 --> 01:17:58,880
imagine yellow.
And I see yellow in my mind or I

1284
01:17:58,880 --> 01:18:02,640
see red or or I see all these
basic things.

1285
01:18:03,040 --> 01:18:08,120
And then I work up to seeing a
faceted stone in this in a ring.

1286
01:18:08,440 --> 01:18:11,920
And now I can imagine all the
little detail and all the little

1287
01:18:11,920 --> 01:18:15,440
studs around it and I can create
those in my mind of what I want

1288
01:18:15,440 --> 01:18:20,680
to have on that stone.
And so that is a very good

1289
01:18:20,680 --> 01:18:23,640
practice.
They say if you can start to

1290
01:18:23,640 --> 01:18:27,800
imagine and you have that
imagination, your ability to do

1291
01:18:27,800 --> 01:18:32,560
things becomes greater.
Just at work that play

1292
01:18:32,840 --> 01:18:38,520
basketball, there was one study
where they took in these

1293
01:18:38,520 --> 01:18:40,280
basketball players, sat them
down.

1294
01:18:40,280 --> 01:18:43,320
They said OK, will you go out
and practice your free throw?

1295
01:18:43,320 --> 01:18:46,000
You know, free throws.
What do they call them?

1296
01:18:46,360 --> 01:18:49,440
Free throw, Free throw.
Yeah, so go do that.

1297
01:18:50,080 --> 01:18:52,160
And then they did that.
And then they said, OK, now you

1298
01:18:52,160 --> 01:18:54,440
guys sit over here and these
guys are going to go practice

1299
01:18:54,440 --> 01:18:56,480
and then you guys are going to
sit here and you're going to

1300
01:18:56,480 --> 01:19:01,000
imagine in your mind you
throwing the ball and it's going

1301
01:19:01,000 --> 01:19:05,080
to go right through the net
every single time.

1302
01:19:05,080 --> 01:19:07,120
You just imagine that over and
over.

1303
01:19:07,120 --> 01:19:08,920
And then then they throw them
back out.

1304
01:19:08,920 --> 01:19:12,480
And these guys that never
practice but I had imagined it

1305
01:19:12,480 --> 01:19:17,280
in their mind was like 3 times
higher rate.

1306
01:19:18,080 --> 01:19:20,720
Wow.
Holy cow.

1307
01:19:20,720 --> 01:19:22,720
All right, so if someone wants
to learn.

1308
01:19:22,720 --> 01:19:25,000
More about Seership and Seer
Stones.

1309
01:19:25,000 --> 01:19:28,560
What's the book again, Kevin?
OK, here's the book.

1310
01:19:29,160 --> 01:19:32,880
It's it's right here.
Sears and Seer Stones by Ogden

1311
01:19:32,880 --> 01:19:34,480
Kraut, My dad.
Nice.

1312
01:19:34,880 --> 01:19:36,640
And where can they pick up a
copy of that?

1313
01:19:37,560 --> 01:19:42,440
They can pick it up at 97 W Main
St. in Santaquin now.

1314
01:19:42,920 --> 01:19:47,040
Now you can also call our store.
The phone number at the store is

1315
01:19:47,080 --> 01:19:56,760
8 O1 Six O 9 2222 and online on
Ogden kraut.com.

1316
01:19:57,280 --> 01:19:59,680
There's a place where you can go
to all of dad's books and

1317
01:19:59,680 --> 01:20:03,000
they're and they open up PDF.
You can go through and read the

1318
01:20:03,000 --> 01:20:08,080
book itself for free and and
also a friend of mine put online

1319
01:20:08,080 --> 01:20:11,320
on YouTube.
If you typed in Sears Stones by

1320
01:20:11,320 --> 01:20:15,640
Ogden Kraut it'll come up and
it's an actual audio book so you

1321
01:20:15,640 --> 01:20:19,840
can be driving down the road and
listen to my dad's books.

1322
01:20:20,240 --> 01:20:23,680
While you're there, I mean, it's
just not the greatest, but it it

1323
01:20:23,680 --> 01:20:25,800
works very well.
I mean, you can still hear and

1324
01:20:25,800 --> 01:20:28,840
understand what's being said.
Fantastic.

1325
01:20:30,040 --> 01:20:32,640
Well dude, good stuff.
I appreciate it, man.

1326
01:20:33,520 --> 01:20:34,760
OK.
All right.

1327
01:20:34,760 --> 01:20:36,240
Good to talk to you.
Thank you.

1328
01:20:36,360 --> 01:20:38,040
And we'll do it again.
Bye everybody.

1329
01:21:09,280 --> 01:21:11,960
You're listening to the Mormon
Renegade podcast.