Episode #100: The Fulfilled Prophecies Of Joseph Smith W/Brian Stutzman

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Well, it's a big day on the
podcast.

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It's episode #100, and I know
what you're thinking and I agree

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with you.
I didn't think I'd make it this

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far either, yet here we are To
go along with that, I have a few

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special announcements I'm going
to be making on this podcast

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that I really need you to hear.
These announcements will be made

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right after the intro
commercials on this episode, so

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please stick around for that.
OK, moving on to this episode,

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Joseph Smith is obviously the
man when we talk.

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About the Restoration, he wore a
lot of different hats in his

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ministry.
The one we're most familiar with

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is that of prophet.
So if Joseph Smith really is a

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prophet, we should expect to see
some of his prophecies

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fulfilled.
Well, today I have on Brian

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Stutzman to talk about a book he
has written that explores the

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fulfilled prophecies of the
Prophet Joseph Smith.

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We cover Brian's back story just
a little bit, then dive right

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into some of Joseph's prophecies
that we have seen come to pass.

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Towards the end, we discussed
what this all means As for

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believers in the restored gospel
of Jesus Christ and Joseph

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Smith's legacy, that and more on
this episode of the Mormon

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Renegade podcast.
Look, it's no secret that our

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society has become much more
crude and coarse.

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To become and raise men and
women of virtue and character is

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a Herculean task.
To help with this, I have

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recently wrote and published a
book.

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Now, back in the 1700s,
Washington had a book called

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Rules of Civility and Decent
Behavior and Company and

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Conversation.
It was a book with 110 rules

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that talked about how to conduct
yourself like a civilized person

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in society, something that
today's society is sorely

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lacking.
What I did is I went back

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through the book and I
reinterpreted his original

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sayings for the 21st century.
So the book is laid out in a way

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in which you see Washington's
original rule.

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Right below that is my
explanation for the 21st

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century.
And below that, you'll find two

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or three examples of where to
use this in the real world.

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Now, to go along with this,
there's a workbook that helps

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parents teach these principles
and practices to their kids.

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To find the book, go to
mormonrenegade.com, go to the

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bottom of the page, search out
the blog post, and order your

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copy.
Today, I can bear personal

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testimony from personal
experience.

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That this is an invaluable tool
to help you raise men and women

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of virtue and character.
So as I alluded to in the show

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Open here, I have a few
announcements to make.

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But first, I've been really
prompted all week to address

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some folks out there in the
audience.

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I don't know who you are.
It's just a feeling I've got

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from the spirit this whole week.
First, I felt prompted to to

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address you, the listener.
If you're here on this podcast

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listening, it's not an accident.
There's a reason for that.

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Most likely you're either being
prepared or called to something.

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Now, what that is, I don't know.
I'm not your spiritual leader,

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but I can point you in the
direction of someone who can

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tell you, and that's our Father
and our God.

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He stands ready to hear those
prayers and to.

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Reveal to you what you need in
these last days.

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Now I want to speak just for a
second to folks who are feeling

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a little confused about where to
go and what to do.

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I've had an increasing number of
emails over the last few weeks

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from folks asking where they can
go to attend church.

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Look, myself and others are here
to help.

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No matter who you are, if you're
a traditional believing Mormon,

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there is a place for you in the
fullness of the gospel, both for

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you and your family.
Heck, if we can't find a place,

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you can come worship with me and
my family.

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That door is always open now.
I know things in Mormonism feel

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a little confusing right now.
I get it.

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I've been there.
If you're feeling this way,

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please, please, please.
I'm begging you not to throw the

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baby out with the bathwater when
it comes to your testimony of

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the restored gospel.
If you are leaving the LDS

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Church but still have a
testimony, or if you feel like

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your testimony is hanging by a
thread, reach out.

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You can always reach out to me.
I will always answer your

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emails, and if it's an
emergency, put 911 in the

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description.
I will reach out to you quick.

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I and others stand ready and
willing to help you any way

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possible.
Maybe you just need to talk

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through some questions.
We can do that here.

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Myself and others in the Mormon
fundamentalist community stand

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ready to help you no matter
where you end up or no matter

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where you feel called.
But please don't throw your

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testimony of the restored gospel
away, OK?

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Announcement number one.
One place I feel like we can do

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better in in fundamentalism is
helping the sisters, both in

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fundamentalism as well as
sisters investigating Mormon

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fundamentalism.
To help those sisters

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specifically, my wife Tanya and
my wife Amber, and women from a

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few different faith traditions
within Mormon fundamentalism

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have set up a new Facebook group
just for these sisters.

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Its name is Mormon
Fundamentalism for Women.

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I know it's not real catchy and
it's a simple name, but hey, we

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aren't exactly marketing
experts, you know what I mean?

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Now this is just for the
sisters.

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Let me stress again, this is
just for the sisters.

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That means no dudes.
If any of the admins catch a

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dude trying to infiltrate this
group, they will be mocked

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mercilessly on this podcast for
quite a few weeks.

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So don't go there fellas.
It's not going to work out in

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your favor.
This is a private group where if

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a woman with questions about
fundamentalism can go and ask

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questions without having to
worry about being exposed, they

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can have their privacy
protected.

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The link to that Facebook group
can be found in the episodes

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show notes or at
mormonrenegade.com in the blog

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menu of the of the website.
Finally, I want to tell you

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about some changes that I've
made to the the news program I

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do when you subscribe to the
$12.00 package on Patreon.

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I've retooled that show so that
you're going to get more

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analysis and less comedy.
My hopes is, is that as we begin

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to enter more and more troubled
times, you'll be able to be able

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to digest the news in a way that
is really from the the point of

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view of someone who believes in
the fullness of of the restored

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gospel.
So if you so feel like

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subscribing to that news
program, you can do that at

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Patreon under the Mormon
Renegade page.

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And that's 12 bucks a month.
Now for the next 4 weeks, I'm

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going to be putting up the news
program for free on Rumble so

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that you can get a taste because
I don't want you just to buy

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something you don't feel like
you're going to get your money's

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worth.
So go to the Mormon Renegade

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Rumble page, look it up, and for
the next 4 weeks that news

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program will be free so you can
try it out and know if it's for

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you or not.
In conclusion, I just want to

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say how thankful I am to you,
the listener, for coming here

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every week.
And I hope that your time here

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is well spent, that that you
don't, that you feel like you're

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getting something out of this
that is so important to me.

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If there's anything you ever
want discussed on the on the

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podcast, feel free to drop me a
line.

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We'll definitely take that under
consideration.

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But know that I'm so thankful to
you, the listener that's been

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here with me on this journey as
we've explored Mormon

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fundamentalism and we look
forward to just keeping this

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going.
So again, thank you for

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listening.
The.

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You're listening to the Mormon
Renegade podcast.

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Brian, how you doing?
Great.

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It's great to be with you
tonight, Dave.

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Dude, I'm so excited you're
here.

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So real quick, we're we're going
to talk about your book, a

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timeline of Joseph Smith's
prophecies, and the subtitle, if

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you will, As his prophecies
Fulfilled and.

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People can find that on Amazon,
is that right?

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That's.
Correct.

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Anywhere else?
Cheap.

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Nope, Amazon.
And then I've got another

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version of the book called On
This Day and we'll talk about

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that.
I think the the first book's

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$14.00 and the second one's 9
bucks.

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Right on, I'll tell you.
About that.

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Perfect.
So, but before we dive into

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that, you're an active member of
the LDS Church.

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Were you were, were were you
born Mormon?

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Did were you born in the
covenant, so to speak, and

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brought up Mormon?
I was.

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I was born, my dad was a adult
convert when they met my mom.

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Then they got married, had a
family, and I was born in the

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church.
Very cool.

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So I always like to ask this
question because whether you're

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born into the gospel in whatever
strain, LDS or Fundamentalist,

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there is a moment at which you
have to make that conversion,

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right?
And and and I think we're all

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conversions.
What was yours?

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Yeah.
I would say I think I was always

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born with a testimony, but it
became brighter as I got older

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and had different spiritual
experiences.

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Whether I remember the first
time I visited the Sacred Grove

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as a child, right boy, I was
knocked out of my shoes.

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The spirit just just hit me.
I've always had a love for

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Naavu.
I remember going there as a

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younger person and catching the
spirit of Naavu.

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But as I studied the
restoration, I just see God's

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hands all over it and and it
just has gotten stronger and

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stronger.
Yeah, OK Yeah.

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Kind of a gradual process for
you where where you always

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believed it, but it was
strengthened as you just

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continued to to immerse yourself
in it.

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It's funny you bring up like the
Sacred Grove and and Nauvoo.

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Me, me and my family just got
back from there.

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Oh, I want to say two or three
weeks ago and we went to

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Missouri, we went to Adam one
day almond and you're right

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there.
There is a very special spirit

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to those places.
And when when your feet kind of

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touch down there it it's hard
not to become immersed in it.

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It's hard not to feel that that
spiritual tug for sure so.

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Absolutely, we were.
We spent last week in Nauvoo, me

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and my wife, and then about a
month and a half ago I was.

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Palmyra and Kirtland and Nauvoo.
Oh, that's awesome.

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So yeah, it's about my 15th time
in both places.

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That's awesome.
That's awesome.

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Yeah.
No.

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Anyway, but you don't have to go
to get it.

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But for me that that's really
kind of the icing.

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So I do live in East Idaho.
My profession.

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I'm a businessman.
We have some real estate

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commercial properties and things
that we own and and manage.

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And then I had some free time.
I I serve.

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I don't think it's any secret.
I serve as a Bishop at the YSA

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ward in Rexburg right now, but
somehow I still had some extra

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time and I do some local
politics as well, but I had some

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extra time to really delve into.
My first foray into really

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church history was a little town
called Warsaw, IL and Warsaw is

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18 miles South of Nauvoo.
And when I was when me and my

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wife got married and we start
having children, I said to my

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wife I said I want to do 2
things with our kids before they

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leave the house.
I want to take them on a

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personal father son.
I we have four boys one-on-one

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trip to the church history sites
and I also want to take him to

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the Holy Land and so I was able
to take my first two.

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Our oldest two right before the
oldest one on a mission and then

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the younger two a couple years
later to the Holy Land.

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But each one of the other ones I
took on a church history trip

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and son #3.
We were leaving Carthage and you

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always want to end your church
history trips at Carthage.

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I I'm a big believer.
I I say don't go anywhere after

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Carthage, just go home because
it's such an exclamation point

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to the restoration.
But we were coming down the road

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through Hamilton, over the over
the bridge to Keokuk, IA.

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And there's a slow green sign
that said Warsaw.

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This is about 10 years ago and I
said Warsaw, Warsaw.

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00:12:37,600 --> 00:12:40,360
Gosh, I remember I was saying
Keith Perkins who was a famous

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00:12:40,360 --> 00:12:44,160
BYU religion teacher.
I was in his class and I think

227
00:12:44,160 --> 00:12:46,440
that we read something about
Warsaw, something about this

228
00:12:46,440 --> 00:12:49,400
newspaper editor named Thomas
Sharp or something.

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00:12:49,720 --> 00:12:51,200
I don't know, I can't remember
much.

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00:12:51,240 --> 00:12:55,520
So we took a left hand turn and
went down there 5 miles and wow,

231
00:12:55,520 --> 00:12:58,760
there's this fascinating little
broken down Rivertown.

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00:12:59,480 --> 00:13:01,760
And I thought this had something
to do with Nauvoo, but I

233
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couldn't remember.
So we got out of the rental car

234
00:13:04,200 --> 00:13:07,200
and walked around and I got out
my phone and I texted history of

235
00:13:07,200 --> 00:13:11,920
Warsaw, IL and there was none.
And coming home it just hit me

236
00:13:11,920 --> 00:13:14,480
that that was one of my missions
in life was to write a history

237
00:13:14,480 --> 00:13:17,200
of this town.
And I went back and spent weeks

238
00:13:17,200 --> 00:13:19,480
and weeks and weeks and went to
archives and things.

239
00:13:19,720 --> 00:13:21,760
I wrote the history of Warsaw,
IL.

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00:13:21,760 --> 00:13:26,120
And come to find out, Warsaw was
actually the nemesis of Nauvoo,

241
00:13:26,440 --> 00:13:29,080
and it's where the mob came from
that killed Joseph Smith.

242
00:13:29,640 --> 00:13:33,520
OK, and there's a history before
and a history after.

243
00:13:33,520 --> 00:13:36,080
There was positive interactions
with Nauvoo and there was some

244
00:13:36,080 --> 00:13:39,280
real negative interactions.
And the newspaper editor

245
00:13:39,280 --> 00:13:42,680
basically called for the the
martyrdom of Joseph Smith.

246
00:13:42,920 --> 00:13:46,040
He said Triumph War, they said
they did it afterwards.

247
00:13:46,360 --> 00:13:48,960
They helped kick the worms out
on the Battle of Nauvoo in

248
00:13:48,960 --> 00:13:52,560
September of 1846, Kicked the
3rd wave out.

249
00:13:52,960 --> 00:13:56,480
And there's just all this
history in it I spent, you know?

250
00:13:57,560 --> 00:13:59,560
Six years, seven years writing
his book.

251
00:14:00,080 --> 00:14:01,800
And the people at worse are
really nice.

252
00:14:01,800 --> 00:14:03,920
They had nothing to do with what
happened back then.

253
00:14:04,200 --> 00:14:06,400
And they invited me to come and
I'd speak at their high school

254
00:14:06,400 --> 00:14:08,640
three different times.
Sell out crowd, tell them about

255
00:14:08,640 --> 00:14:11,840
their history, A Mormon from
Idaho coming to worse Illinois,

256
00:14:11,840 --> 00:14:13,880
telling them that they used to
fight with their neighbors and

257
00:14:13,880 --> 00:14:15,880
not be.
There's a little ironic but

258
00:14:15,880 --> 00:14:17,040
they've supported, they've
loved.

259
00:14:17,040 --> 00:14:18,400
They found it really
interesting.

260
00:14:18,720 --> 00:14:22,800
So I wrote this book and so
we're sitting along and somebody

261
00:14:22,800 --> 00:14:25,960
contacted me about a year and a
half ago and said, Brian,

262
00:14:26,240 --> 00:14:28,360
there's this.
Group that's actually been

263
00:14:28,360 --> 00:14:30,440
excommunicated or not, not part
of the church.

264
00:14:30,440 --> 00:14:32,160
I don't know the the, the
complete history.

265
00:14:32,160 --> 00:14:34,600
But there's this group that's
come out with this movie that

266
00:14:34,600 --> 00:14:41,160
tries, that's trying to say that
somehow the mob just got lucky

267
00:14:41,160 --> 00:14:44,360
and happened to be at Carthage
jail right at the very moment

268
00:14:44,840 --> 00:14:47,920
that John Taylor Willard
Richards shot Joseph and Hiram,

269
00:14:48,200 --> 00:14:50,400
which doesn't make any sense at
all.

270
00:14:50,640 --> 00:14:54,120
And there's so much evidence why
it was not an inside job.

271
00:14:54,640 --> 00:14:56,400
And one of the real things is
Joseph Smith.

272
00:14:56,920 --> 00:14:58,320
He didn't die in the bedroom
upstairs.

273
00:14:58,320 --> 00:15:01,560
Nobody killed him upstairs.
He was alive.

274
00:15:01,560 --> 00:15:04,240
He fell out the window.
Yelled the Lord my God, is there

275
00:15:04,240 --> 00:15:05,600
no help.
It was the beginning of the

276
00:15:05,600 --> 00:15:09,600
Masonic cry for help.
He was very much alive and just

277
00:15:09,600 --> 00:15:13,360
like Taylor who had taken 5
balls upstairs and he lived.

278
00:15:13,360 --> 00:15:15,880
I believe Joseph Smith would
have left if lived if he would

279
00:15:15,880 --> 00:15:17,720
have had medical care when he
hit the ground.

280
00:15:18,280 --> 00:15:22,520
But they lined him up against
the well, Levi Williams and a

281
00:15:22,520 --> 00:15:26,440
militia.
Brigade Firing Squad shot and

282
00:15:26,440 --> 00:15:29,440
killed Joseph.
I mean, some of those people

283
00:15:29,440 --> 00:15:31,840
stood trial.
So this notion that it was

284
00:15:31,840 --> 00:15:35,680
upstairs, that somebody upstairs
killed him, impossible, 'cause

285
00:15:35,680 --> 00:15:37,200
they didn't kill him.
He was alive.

286
00:15:37,680 --> 00:15:38,800
When?
When So, so.

287
00:15:39,360 --> 00:15:45,400
When I first, when I first came
across that movie and and that

288
00:15:45,400 --> 00:15:48,920
theory and I watched the movie,
I remember when it was done I

289
00:15:48,920 --> 00:15:52,920
turned it off and I just looked
at looked at my wife and I said.

290
00:15:53,760 --> 00:15:58,960
You know, people say you have to
have a lot of faith to believe

291
00:15:58,960 --> 00:16:04,240
that a, a, a 14 year old farm
boy got some gold plates, but

292
00:16:04,240 --> 00:16:07,760
this account takes even more
faith than that, right?

293
00:16:08,000 --> 00:16:11,760
That makes that story look
absolutely, you know, factual.

294
00:16:12,160 --> 00:16:14,800
I, I, I agree with you.
That's that's been some of the

295
00:16:15,080 --> 00:16:20,440
stuff to come out of.
So because I had done so much on

296
00:16:20,440 --> 00:16:23,040
Warsaw, people contacted me and
we made some podcasts.

297
00:16:23,040 --> 00:16:26,880
And then I got contacted by
Kimberly Watson Smith, who's

298
00:16:26,880 --> 00:16:31,560
been on your show, and other
people, Shannon Tracy and and

299
00:16:31,560 --> 00:16:34,480
Taylor Smith.
And we put together some

300
00:16:34,480 --> 00:16:36,800
podcasts that really could have
debunked that movie.

301
00:16:37,240 --> 00:16:40,800
And thankfully I was out there
in last week and we went to

302
00:16:40,800 --> 00:16:42,680
Carthage.
I talked to six missionaries,

303
00:16:42,680 --> 00:16:45,000
Some had been there for over a
year at Carthage Shell.

304
00:16:45,280 --> 00:16:47,320
I said, Has anybody come through
here?

305
00:16:48,160 --> 00:16:51,320
And said what about John Taylor
Willard Richards killing Joseph

306
00:16:51,320 --> 00:16:53,160
Smith.
Has anybody ever mentioned that

307
00:16:53,680 --> 00:16:56,360
five of them said I'd never
heard anything one of them said.

308
00:16:56,360 --> 00:17:00,240
I think I heard one person kind
of in just say that to somebody

309
00:17:00,960 --> 00:17:04,079
one person between six people
over a whole year in Carter.

310
00:17:04,119 --> 00:17:08,359
So it's it didn't really get any
trash and except from people who

311
00:17:08,680 --> 00:17:12,400
maybe didn't believe anyhow or
or you know that that particular

312
00:17:12,400 --> 00:17:17,240
movie and so we yeah we did some
different work that way and

313
00:17:17,240 --> 00:17:20,119
then.
What happened next And And

314
00:17:20,359 --> 00:17:23,440
again, the book's called History
of Warsaw, IL, it's on Amazon

315
00:17:24,040 --> 00:17:27,960
and it's got some some
phenomenal pioneer stories that

316
00:17:28,040 --> 00:17:32,320
that are are somewhat original.
For instance, I'll tell you one,

317
00:17:32,320 --> 00:17:34,400
then I'll move on to what we're
talking about today.

318
00:17:34,840 --> 00:17:41,800
There was a a, a school teacher
in Iowa named Isaac Allen and he

319
00:17:41,800 --> 00:17:43,960
married.
He had three different wives

320
00:17:43,960 --> 00:17:45,720
over.
His life and they all died.

321
00:17:45,720 --> 00:17:49,680
And his fourth wife that he
married was from Warsaw and he

322
00:17:49,680 --> 00:17:53,280
went down there and it was a
sister of the there was a

323
00:17:53,560 --> 00:17:57,760
military Fort on the river.
This is 18 twenties, 18 you know

324
00:17:57,840 --> 00:18:03,160
and he married this gal.
And well, the long and short of

325
00:18:03,160 --> 00:18:06,960
it is the way it works out is
that he becomes brother-in-law

326
00:18:07,160 --> 00:18:11,400
with Thomas Sharp, that Isaak
Gallon joins the church and

327
00:18:11,400 --> 00:18:13,080
becomes a missionary for the
church.

328
00:18:14,480 --> 00:18:18,760
And I believe Hiram Smith
baptized him and he becomes

329
00:18:18,760 --> 00:18:22,800
brother-in-law through some
deaths and remarriages to Thomas

330
00:18:22,800 --> 00:18:25,840
Sharp, who was a newspaper
editor that would eventually

331
00:18:25,840 --> 00:18:28,760
stand trial for the murder of
Joseph Smith.

332
00:18:29,640 --> 00:18:30,760
Wow.
Brother-in-law.

333
00:18:30,760 --> 00:18:34,520
So imagine Thanksgiving dinner.
Mormon missionary Isaac Gallatin

334
00:18:34,720 --> 00:18:40,400
and brother-in-law anti Mormon
editors stood trial for the

335
00:18:40,400 --> 00:18:42,440
murder of Joseph Smith.
Thomas Sharp.

336
00:18:43,000 --> 00:18:45,760
At the same table, their kids
were cousins, played Prince.

337
00:18:46,200 --> 00:18:48,120
You don't find that in any
history book.

338
00:18:48,120 --> 00:18:50,000
I put that together through a
lot of research.

339
00:18:51,320 --> 00:18:55,720
That's awesome.
So yeah, that's that's the way

340
00:18:55,720 --> 00:18:59,360
things were back then.
And and I the the book kind of

341
00:18:59,360 --> 00:19:03,120
tells about how Warsaw was
prospered and then within a

342
00:19:03,120 --> 00:19:08,480
generation economically in ruins
and shambles, Joseph Smith made

343
00:19:08,480 --> 00:19:10,640
a prophecy about Warsaw, in
fact.

344
00:19:11,240 --> 00:19:14,080
And he said that the Warsaw
would be broken down and it

345
00:19:14,080 --> 00:19:17,200
would not be built up until some
certain things happened and that

346
00:19:17,200 --> 00:19:20,160
then you can interpret that any
way you want.

347
00:19:20,280 --> 00:19:23,160
But I've got it in the book and
you know to Warsaw today they

348
00:19:23,160 --> 00:19:26,120
went from 5000 people to about
1500 people.

349
00:19:26,520 --> 00:19:29,320
And so when you take this, that
town that has stores and

350
00:19:29,320 --> 00:19:32,840
infrastructure and Main Street
based on 5000 people and then

351
00:19:32,840 --> 00:19:37,000
you collapse it to 1500, you got
some urban decay buildings

352
00:19:37,000 --> 00:19:41,040
falling down even today.
So, but it's a great town and

353
00:19:41,040 --> 00:19:44,040
it's got it's so much more than
just the six or seven years of

354
00:19:44,040 --> 00:19:47,920
the Mormon period before and
especially after.

355
00:19:49,320 --> 00:19:52,360
So they claim that bringing
Young's favorite plural wife,

356
00:19:53,080 --> 00:19:57,760
Amelia Folsom was from Warsaw.
We built a castle of Amelia's

357
00:19:58,080 --> 00:20:00,240
castle.
What was it called?

358
00:20:00,240 --> 00:20:03,720
It was right across from Temple
Square Palace, Amelia's Palace

359
00:20:04,200 --> 00:20:07,240
in the 1870s and 80s.
I think it was torn down about

360
00:20:07,240 --> 00:20:11,160
turn of the century.
But but she was Brigham's

361
00:20:11,160 --> 00:20:13,040
favorite wife.
You got to look her up.

362
00:20:13,040 --> 00:20:17,040
She was quite gifted, musical,
very intellectual when

363
00:20:17,680 --> 00:20:20,640
dignitaries came while you would
sit at the head table and she

364
00:20:20,640 --> 00:20:23,000
was from they claim for Morris,
IL.

365
00:20:23,080 --> 00:20:26,760
So anyway, so I've done done
this work and then one day a

366
00:20:27,080 --> 00:20:32,440
while back I I was checking some
different podcasts and one

367
00:20:32,440 --> 00:20:36,520
pretty well known anti Mormon
guy did a podcast about the Feld

368
00:20:36,520 --> 00:20:40,960
prophecies of Joseph Smith.
I said whoa, what's he talk

369
00:20:40,960 --> 00:20:43,000
about here?
And he has 10s of thousands of

370
00:20:43,000 --> 00:20:45,680
viewers.
I said, well Joseph Smith had

371
00:20:45,680 --> 00:20:47,560
hundreds of fulfilled
prophecies.

372
00:20:48,400 --> 00:20:55,720
And what happened was in 2003 my
sister-in-law was married to a

373
00:20:55,720 --> 00:21:01,560
gentleman named Pat, and Pat was
a researcher and a writer and a

374
00:21:01,560 --> 00:21:03,640
really good one.
Unfortunately the marriage

375
00:21:03,640 --> 00:21:08,760
didn't last as long as we would
have liked it to And but when we

376
00:21:08,760 --> 00:21:12,120
see Pat at different events
instead of at a family wedding a

377
00:21:12,120 --> 00:21:17,320
couple times, I said when this
came out, I said, Pat in 2003

378
00:21:17,320 --> 00:21:19,880
you wrote a book called The
Prophecies of Joseph Smith.

379
00:21:21,200 --> 00:21:24,240
You tried to publish it
privately, publicly.

380
00:21:24,240 --> 00:21:27,120
It didn't really take any legs.
I I got a copy.

381
00:21:27,120 --> 00:21:29,920
You didn't sell very many.
I said you have the right to

382
00:21:29,920 --> 00:21:31,680
that, right?
And yeah, I said we need to

383
00:21:31,680 --> 00:21:33,640
resurrect it.
And he says I'm, I am a

384
00:21:33,640 --> 00:21:37,960
believer, but I'm busy in these
other directions and I don't

385
00:21:37,960 --> 00:21:41,080
have time.
I said, well, if you let me take

386
00:21:41,080 --> 00:21:48,040
it, publish it, edit it,
republish it and put it out

387
00:21:48,040 --> 00:21:52,720
there and share these prophecies
on podcasts and things, is that

388
00:21:52,720 --> 00:21:53,880
acceptable?
And he says, yeah.

389
00:21:53,880 --> 00:21:55,040
And I said I'll do one more
thing.

390
00:21:55,040 --> 00:21:58,080
We'll price it low and if any
profits, I'll I'll send it to

391
00:21:58,080 --> 00:22:00,080
you.
Pat, I, I, I did my Warsaw, but

392
00:22:00,080 --> 00:22:01,720
I'm thousands of dollars in the
hole.

393
00:22:01,720 --> 00:22:04,560
I don't do it for money.
Thankfully our rental properties

394
00:22:04,560 --> 00:22:08,000
are doing good.
So packets any profits.

395
00:22:08,440 --> 00:22:10,920
But as I got into this book, you
know, they're just public.

396
00:22:10,920 --> 00:22:13,480
He, he did a lot of good
research, but you can go to

397
00:22:13,480 --> 00:22:19,000
journals and do things like that
and find these, so find these

398
00:22:19,000 --> 00:22:20,840
prophecies and it's just
phenomenal.

399
00:22:20,840 --> 00:22:24,320
And then there's really,
honestly a really explanation.

400
00:22:24,960 --> 00:22:27,680
There's really hasn't been a
prophecy that can't be

401
00:22:27,680 --> 00:22:31,560
explained.
And so can I.

402
00:22:31,560 --> 00:22:33,920
Just start by my one of my
favorite scriptures.

403
00:22:33,920 --> 00:22:38,480
It's First Corinthians 1422.
First Corinthians 1422 says

404
00:22:38,480 --> 00:22:42,640
prophecy sign serveth not for
them that believe not prefer

405
00:22:42,640 --> 00:22:46,800
them which believe.
And so here's kind of what your

406
00:22:46,800 --> 00:22:50,760
audience needs to know about at
least what I think prophecies

407
00:22:50,760 --> 00:22:53,400
are.
First of all, when we talk about

408
00:22:53,560 --> 00:22:58,160
today, we're gonna talk about is
the prophecies of Joe Smith and

409
00:22:58,160 --> 00:23:00,160
we classify, say the Book of
Mormon.

410
00:23:00,800 --> 00:23:02,400
Those aren't the prophecies of
Joe Smith.

411
00:23:02,520 --> 00:23:06,240
They contain the prophecies of
Alma and Nephi and those guys,

412
00:23:06,320 --> 00:23:09,640
right, The authors of the Book
of Mormon, the Doctrine

413
00:23:09,640 --> 00:23:12,760
Covenants.
I don't really classify them as

414
00:23:12,760 --> 00:23:16,840
prophecies of Joe Smith.
There are about 1100

415
00:23:16,840 --> 00:23:19,400
forward-looking statements in
the Doctrine Covenants, but

416
00:23:19,400 --> 00:23:22,240
we'll classify that as the word
of the Lord.

417
00:23:22,960 --> 00:23:25,920
OK.
So what we're talking about here

418
00:23:25,920 --> 00:23:29,160
are sayings, prophecies from
journals, from the history of

419
00:23:29,160 --> 00:23:37,280
the Church and different sources
that are not necessarily, that

420
00:23:37,320 --> 00:23:40,200
are not in the scriptures.
And some of them are in like the

421
00:23:40,200 --> 00:23:43,480
times and reasons, as long as
they didn't like, hit the pro

422
00:23:43,480 --> 00:23:46,200
great prize.
So these are Joseph Smith's

423
00:23:46,200 --> 00:23:48,520
prophecies.
They're not Lord's prophecies.

424
00:23:48,800 --> 00:23:52,400
They're not Lord's voice, I
should say through the doctorate

425
00:23:52,400 --> 00:23:54,960
covenants or Almas or or
Nephi's.

426
00:23:55,080 --> 00:23:58,960
So that's what's in this book.
But I also need to, to clarify

427
00:23:58,960 --> 00:24:02,920
this the role of prophecies in a
testimony.

428
00:24:03,360 --> 00:24:07,000
They should be testimony
affirming, but the real

429
00:24:07,000 --> 00:24:10,800
testimony is based on faith and
study and a confirmation of the

430
00:24:10,800 --> 00:24:13,400
Holy Ghost.
And it's first of all based on

431
00:24:13,400 --> 00:24:17,840
Jesus Christ and His role as our
Savior, Right and Redeemer.

432
00:24:18,320 --> 00:24:22,080
And second of all on the
Restoration, the Book of Mormon,

433
00:24:22,080 --> 00:24:25,440
the prophetic calling of Joseph
Smith, the coming forth of the

434
00:24:25,440 --> 00:24:27,840
Book of Mormon, and the
teachings of living prophets

435
00:24:27,840 --> 00:24:32,600
today.
OK, these other things are kind

436
00:24:32,600 --> 00:24:34,800
of just like bricks in a
foundation.

437
00:24:35,720 --> 00:24:39,880
Somebody should not base their
whole testimony on whether some

438
00:24:39,880 --> 00:24:42,600
prophecies came true or
whatever.

439
00:24:43,320 --> 00:24:49,160
They can be faith affirming and
just one more, you know, brick

440
00:24:49,160 --> 00:24:51,920
in the foundation.
Does that make sense?

441
00:24:52,400 --> 00:24:56,000
No, that that makes sense.
Yeah, that makes that makes

442
00:24:56,000 --> 00:24:59,040
perfect sense.
I I guess my thought on that is

443
00:24:59,040 --> 00:25:03,720
that Joseph Smith is a pretty
pivotal, a pretty big pivotal

444
00:25:03,720 --> 00:25:08,640
part in that, right.
So that if, if, if, if you you

445
00:25:08,640 --> 00:25:12,560
can't say the Book of Mormon is
is a true document without

446
00:25:12,560 --> 00:25:13,880
saying Joseph, what's the
process?

447
00:25:14,840 --> 00:25:18,160
And so that you can have Joseph
Smith, a prophet with or without

448
00:25:18,160 --> 00:25:21,880
prophecies because of the Book
of Mormon.

449
00:25:22,320 --> 00:25:25,200
So this is just an additional
witness to the prophetic calling

450
00:25:25,200 --> 00:25:28,240
of Joseph Smith outside of the
Book of Mormon and outside of

451
00:25:28,240 --> 00:25:31,880
some of the things he did.
The setting up of the church was

452
00:25:31,880 --> 00:25:34,920
prophetic.
Right when he's sitting there

453
00:25:35,880 --> 00:25:40,000
outside of Kirtland in, what is
it, Morley's house And he he

454
00:25:40,000 --> 00:25:43,560
takes a couple elders and he
says, you guys, you know the

455
00:25:43,560 --> 00:25:46,560
famous saying you guys are
nothing more than babes, you

456
00:25:46,560 --> 00:25:48,560
know, infants in a mother's
arms.

457
00:25:48,560 --> 00:25:51,200
You don't know this church is
going to go through North and

458
00:25:51,200 --> 00:25:52,840
South America and fill the
world.

459
00:25:53,600 --> 00:25:55,600
Right.
How prophetic was that?

460
00:25:55,920 --> 00:25:58,760
Right.
And you people say, well is that

461
00:25:58,760 --> 00:26:01,040
really filled the earth?
Well, you take a room and you

462
00:26:01,040 --> 00:26:04,000
squirt 3 squirts of of of
perfume.

463
00:26:04,000 --> 00:26:08,360
You fill the room with with
fragrance, right?

464
00:26:08,360 --> 00:26:10,400
And that's how you fill the
world with the gospel.

465
00:26:10,480 --> 00:26:13,840
It doesn't mean every single
person, but how, how prophetic

466
00:26:13,840 --> 00:26:17,640
that is.
So let's maybe talk first the

467
00:26:17,640 --> 00:26:21,240
criticisms.
Sometimes people read a prophecy

468
00:26:21,240 --> 00:26:24,520
or get something out or and say,
well, this hasn't come to pass

469
00:26:24,520 --> 00:26:26,560
yet.
Well, just because sometimes

470
00:26:26,560 --> 00:26:29,240
prophecies have not been
fulfilled how we think they

471
00:26:29,240 --> 00:26:34,600
should be, doesn't #1 mean that
they haven't been or #2 doesn't

472
00:26:34,600 --> 00:26:41,560
mean that they won't be.
Sometimes prophecies are very

473
00:26:42,160 --> 00:26:44,440
contingent on certain things
happening.

474
00:26:44,440 --> 00:26:48,680
For instance, Joseph Smith said
New York would be, I think,

475
00:26:48,680 --> 00:26:51,240
destroyed if they didn't accept
the gospel and they set

476
00:26:51,240 --> 00:26:52,960
missionaries and hundreds of
people join.

477
00:26:53,920 --> 00:26:58,440
But if we look at the Bible and
we look at Isaiah, you know

478
00:26:58,440 --> 00:27:02,040
this, the the scripture,
everybody does unto you a, a a

479
00:27:02,080 --> 00:27:05,480
child should be what a virgin
will conceive and his name will

480
00:27:05,480 --> 00:27:08,000
be called Emmanuel, right?
Right.

481
00:27:08,320 --> 00:27:11,400
We read that every Christmas.
Did you know that that was given

482
00:27:11,400 --> 00:27:14,360
700 years before Jesus Christ
came.

483
00:27:14,640 --> 00:27:18,960
So for 699 years, people critics
were saying Isaiah was a false

484
00:27:18,960 --> 00:27:20,680
prophet.
Right.

485
00:27:21,160 --> 00:27:24,480
There's no virgin conceived.
Well, whatever who believes this

486
00:27:24,480 --> 00:27:27,120
Bible thing or this Old
Testament, you know, or, you

487
00:27:27,280 --> 00:27:30,760
know, whatever, you know,
whatever book you know there

488
00:27:30,760 --> 00:27:33,160
there was a formal term for the
Jewish Bible.

489
00:27:34,360 --> 00:27:37,760
Jesus Christ himself has
prophesied that in three days

490
00:27:37,960 --> 00:27:40,920
the temple will be rebuilt.
And you sit there and say, well,

491
00:27:40,920 --> 00:27:42,600
the temple wasn't rebuilt in
Jerusalem.

492
00:27:42,600 --> 00:27:45,680
While he wasn't talking about a
physical temple, he was talking

493
00:27:45,680 --> 00:27:49,160
about his resurrection.
And so you you, sometimes you

494
00:27:49,160 --> 00:27:51,160
have to look at prophecies and
say, well, what were they

495
00:27:51,160 --> 00:27:54,880
talking about?
Isaiah, other Old Testament

496
00:27:54,880 --> 00:27:57,000
prophets said, you know, Israel
will be gathered.

497
00:27:57,440 --> 00:28:00,320
You know, the gathering of
Israel's gonna happen or or it

498
00:28:00,320 --> 00:28:03,880
will happen or is happening.
Well, what we have today.

499
00:28:03,880 --> 00:28:06,080
And like I said, I've been over
there multiple times, actually

500
00:28:06,800 --> 00:28:11,160
more than just with my kids.
What we have today is just a

501
00:28:11,160 --> 00:28:15,560
political gathering that you
know happened in about 18/19/40,

502
00:28:16,920 --> 00:28:19,720
seven, 8-9, something like that,
right.

503
00:28:20,560 --> 00:28:25,960
But for about 2000 years Israel
didn't gather and all the

504
00:28:26,040 --> 00:28:28,640
prophets were false.
Well, when we talked about the

505
00:28:28,640 --> 00:28:34,480
gathering, Jackson County, OK,
in 1831 when Joseph came and and

506
00:28:34,480 --> 00:28:37,440
laid that out and said this, you
know this will be built in this

507
00:28:37,440 --> 00:28:41,440
generation.
Well, the word generation can

508
00:28:41,440 --> 00:28:46,120
mean 1000 years or more.
Doesn't mean in 75 years or 80

509
00:28:46,120 --> 00:28:50,960
years that people lived, right.
So also, you know, Jonah, one

510
00:28:50,960 --> 00:28:52,640
more thing and then we'll jump
in Jonah.

511
00:28:52,640 --> 00:28:55,320
And then Jonah went to Nineveh
and said that city would be

512
00:28:55,320 --> 00:28:58,560
destroyed, but it wasn't.
Why 'cause they repented.

513
00:28:58,560 --> 00:29:02,840
But it the Bible doesn't have a
if had a if if statement there.

514
00:29:03,720 --> 00:29:06,440
So go on.
I I was just give you some

515
00:29:06,440 --> 00:29:08,200
context about prophecies.
Yeah.

516
00:29:08,400 --> 00:29:08,720
What?
What?

517
00:29:08,720 --> 00:29:11,200
What?
What I was gonna say is that too

518
00:29:11,200 --> 00:29:15,000
often.
We, we, we make the assumptions

519
00:29:15,040 --> 00:29:17,000
of what the Lord is saying,
right?

520
00:29:17,400 --> 00:29:20,760
And so we think, well, if if
there's a prophecy, it's got to

521
00:29:20,760 --> 00:29:24,400
come to pass while I'm alive, or
else it's false, right?

522
00:29:24,400 --> 00:29:27,000
Or if it hasn't been fulfilled
right now.

523
00:29:27,640 --> 00:29:31,200
And just like you said with with
with Jesus, where he says, you

524
00:29:31,200 --> 00:29:33,720
know, in three days this temple
will be torn down and rebuilt

525
00:29:33,720 --> 00:29:36,560
again, right?
He's not talking about the

526
00:29:36,560 --> 00:29:39,320
temple.
And so a lot of times we have to

527
00:29:39,320 --> 00:29:41,320
look.
And we have to do our due

528
00:29:41,320 --> 00:29:44,560
diligence and maybe a lot of
times it's not till after the

529
00:29:44,560 --> 00:29:48,960
fact that we can look back and
go, Oh my gosh, it's fulfilled.

530
00:29:49,440 --> 00:29:56,040
And so for people who who put
heavy emphasis on on prophecies

531
00:29:56,280 --> 00:29:59,560
of of any profit, I would say
you might want to slow your roll

532
00:29:59,560 --> 00:30:04,560
just a little bit because you're
making a lot of assumptions on a

533
00:30:04,560 --> 00:30:07,680
prophecy that's not.
That you didn't receive

534
00:30:07,680 --> 00:30:13,040
personally and so you don't know
the context, but thankfully

535
00:30:13,080 --> 00:30:15,840
evident.
Thankfully there's about 400

536
00:30:15,840 --> 00:30:19,760
that have come to pass and I'm
gonna go over maybe 10 or 15

537
00:30:19,760 --> 00:30:22,000
and.
If he's not a good if.

538
00:30:22,000 --> 00:30:24,440
If he's not a prophet, he's an
awfully good guesser at that

539
00:30:24,440 --> 00:30:26,880
point.
Over and over and over.

540
00:30:27,200 --> 00:30:30,200
I mean, you know, for instance,
he told people that they

541
00:30:30,200 --> 00:30:32,600
weren't, you know, gonna taste
the death or they wouldn't have

542
00:30:32,600 --> 00:30:35,840
a painful death.
Well, I think some people, he

543
00:30:35,840 --> 00:30:40,320
said that you won't, you won't
die until Christ returns, right?

544
00:30:41,360 --> 00:30:43,840
Well, guess what?
Some of those were given

545
00:30:43,840 --> 00:30:49,160
183118321833.
What had happened in 1836 in the

546
00:30:49,160 --> 00:30:52,240
currently temple?
Christ had come, Christ came,

547
00:30:52,880 --> 00:30:57,000
yeah, and then they died after.
Yeah, but that's not context

548
00:30:57,000 --> 00:30:58,640
that maybe anti Mormons would
take.

549
00:30:58,640 --> 00:31:02,160
Well Second Coming hasn't come.
Well who says it's the second

550
00:31:02,200 --> 00:31:04,840
coming?
Christ came before this guy

551
00:31:04,840 --> 00:31:07,520
died.
Orson Whitney explained it this

552
00:31:07,520 --> 00:31:08,960
way.
We are not going to die.

553
00:31:09,080 --> 00:31:11,640
We are deathless beings.
We lived before we came into

554
00:31:11,640 --> 00:31:14,000
this world and we shall live
after we go out of it.

555
00:31:14,360 --> 00:31:17,000
What we call death is not worthy
the name.

556
00:31:17,480 --> 00:31:19,600
There is no death for the
righteous.

557
00:31:19,960 --> 00:31:25,360
Christ died to destroy death.
The change called death is but a

558
00:31:25,360 --> 00:31:28,040
separation, a temporary
separation of the spirit from

559
00:31:28,040 --> 00:31:31,160
the body.
None of our dear departed ones

560
00:31:31,160 --> 00:31:33,600
are dead.
They have gone.

561
00:31:33,840 --> 00:31:37,040
They have but gone before this
so-called death, when properly

562
00:31:37,040 --> 00:31:39,880
understood, is simply going back
home.

563
00:31:40,360 --> 00:31:43,040
And so we need to keep that
definition in mind.

564
00:31:43,040 --> 00:31:48,400
If we talk about Joseph Smith's
prophecies now they've a a few

565
00:31:48,680 --> 00:31:52,040
big ones that every being that
should know about is things like

566
00:31:52,040 --> 00:31:54,880
the Word of Wisdom.
How prophetic was that?

567
00:31:54,880 --> 00:31:57,480
And people try to.
Well, there was some health

568
00:31:57,480 --> 00:31:59,640
societies already talked about
that.

569
00:31:59,640 --> 00:32:03,280
Well, no, no organization came
out as strong against it as

570
00:32:03,280 --> 00:32:06,800
large and and went through, you
know, it took 100 and something

571
00:32:06,800 --> 00:32:09,720
150 years for the medical
community to really come out and

572
00:32:09,720 --> 00:32:12,160
say, yeah, you know, the word it
was smoking and drinking and

573
00:32:12,160 --> 00:32:15,520
tobacco are bad, right.
And there was a lot of debates.

574
00:32:15,520 --> 00:32:18,520
And yeah, individually there was
temperate societies and things.

575
00:32:18,520 --> 00:32:21,400
But it was really a battle.
And no, Joseph Smith came out

576
00:32:21,400 --> 00:32:24,440
and said, you know unequivocally
this is bad.

577
00:32:24,440 --> 00:32:26,160
And he was, he was a leader in
his time.

578
00:32:26,440 --> 00:32:29,960
And you can, you can say, yes,
this this was a prophecy that

579
00:32:29,960 --> 00:32:33,040
this is good.
You read the, you know that

580
00:32:34,080 --> 00:32:37,600
revelation again that that was a
revelation from the Lord.

581
00:32:38,000 --> 00:32:42,680
Same with the Civil War.
It's a phenomenal, phenomenal

582
00:32:42,680 --> 00:32:46,600
even named South Carolina.
Well, there was some talk about

583
00:32:46,600 --> 00:32:48,640
it.
Well, no, He came out strong and

584
00:32:48,640 --> 00:32:51,880
said this right?
And it said that war would be

585
00:32:51,880 --> 00:32:55,240
poured out among all nations.
And there's two explanations for

586
00:32:55,240 --> 00:32:58,400
that.
One is that in the Civil War

587
00:32:58,400 --> 00:33:01,920
there was members of countries
from every country in the world

588
00:33:01,920 --> 00:33:04,480
living in the United States that
was involved in the Civil War,

589
00:33:05,000 --> 00:33:07,680
OK.
The other one is an explanation

590
00:33:07,680 --> 00:33:10,440
is from the Civil War date on
there's always been a war

591
00:33:10,520 --> 00:33:12,320
somewhere in the world.
Right.

592
00:33:12,560 --> 00:33:15,320
Well, and two World Wars, right?
Right.

593
00:33:15,320 --> 00:33:17,840
And wars involved.
You poured out, right?

594
00:33:19,480 --> 00:33:23,800
No the he he does hit the nail
on the head and the South

595
00:33:23,800 --> 00:33:27,960
Carolina 1 the arguments that
I've heard where they say well

596
00:33:28,240 --> 00:33:31,880
it's not a big surprise South
Carolina was was the one.

597
00:33:31,880 --> 00:33:37,680
Well, slow your roll, because
you can find you can find old

598
00:33:39,040 --> 00:33:42,840
newspaper clippings of the time
that people swore it'd be

599
00:33:42,840 --> 00:33:45,200
Virginia that let out in it.
Right.

600
00:33:45,200 --> 00:33:48,640
That was what made sense.
That's where, you know, even

601
00:33:48,640 --> 00:33:51,680
before it was official, everyone
understood that the

602
00:33:51,680 --> 00:33:54,520
Confederacy's capital was in
Richmond.

603
00:33:55,960 --> 00:33:59,040
That's where they were meeting.
And so there were just as many

604
00:33:59,040 --> 00:34:02,400
people, if not more, saying it's
most likely to break out from

605
00:34:02,400 --> 00:34:05,040
Virginia.
So the arguments against Joseph

606
00:34:05,040 --> 00:34:09,280
Smith on that particular
prophecy are super weak, super

607
00:34:09,280 --> 00:34:11,480
weak.
And it was what, 2530 years

608
00:34:11,679 --> 00:34:15,000
before the war broke out.
And a lot of dynamics and

609
00:34:15,000 --> 00:34:19,800
politics and shifting happen be
between then the prophecy given

610
00:34:20,239 --> 00:34:22,280
and then the last one of course
is martyrdom.

611
00:34:22,280 --> 00:34:25,760
He gave so many prophecies or
you know, I'm going to Carthage,

612
00:34:25,760 --> 00:34:29,159
I'm not coming back.
I'm not a prophet of God if we

613
00:34:29,159 --> 00:34:32,360
don't, you know if if we, if we
return things like that.

614
00:34:32,800 --> 00:34:36,239
And so, but today let's talk
about some of his maybe lesser

615
00:34:36,239 --> 00:34:41,840
known ones and and this book
that I have that I helped Pat

616
00:34:41,840 --> 00:34:46,000
put put out on the market.
It's kind of divided by eras of

617
00:34:46,000 --> 00:34:48,360
church history.
And we have like a a little

618
00:34:48,760 --> 00:34:53,520
chapter, a couple pages maybe in
the 1st of each chapter dealing

619
00:34:53,520 --> 00:34:56,440
with what's happening in the
church.

620
00:34:56,679 --> 00:34:59,160
And then we go into his
prophecies.

621
00:34:59,640 --> 00:35:02,320
One of the first ones I'd like
to talk about is is actually

622
00:35:02,320 --> 00:35:05,560
before the church was
established summer of 1829,

623
00:35:07,000 --> 00:35:09,680
there was a lot of animosity,
probably more than most people

624
00:35:09,680 --> 00:35:13,040
realized against Joseph in
Palmyra.

625
00:35:13,520 --> 00:35:19,200
And you know, if you look at
some of the affidavits, France

626
00:35:19,200 --> 00:35:22,000
and Kirkham, Francis Kirkham
wrote this phenomenal book

627
00:35:22,000 --> 00:35:24,800
called A Do Witness for Christ
in America.

628
00:35:25,080 --> 00:35:28,400
And he went back and and people
just, he went back and got

629
00:35:28,400 --> 00:35:30,480
affidavits in all newspaper
articles.

630
00:35:30,480 --> 00:35:33,680
Some people were just making
outrageous claims against Joseph

631
00:35:33,680 --> 00:35:36,240
and how dumb he was and how
stupid The Smiths were.

632
00:35:36,600 --> 00:35:39,120
Now it's what a genius he is.
Look at the book of Morton.

633
00:35:39,120 --> 00:35:41,720
He just made that up.
But back then it's like, oh, he

634
00:35:41,720 --> 00:35:43,600
he couldn't even put together a
sentence.

635
00:35:43,920 --> 00:35:49,000
Well some of the opposition knew
that this book was gonna be

636
00:35:49,000 --> 00:35:54,160
published and he was making
arrangements with EB Grant and

637
00:35:54,720 --> 00:35:58,040
most a lot of member probably
your listeners have been back to

638
00:35:58,040 --> 00:36:01,360
Palm Ryer and the churches the
LDS churches restored that

639
00:36:01,760 --> 00:36:03,680
printing press.
He can go and see how the book

640
00:36:03,680 --> 00:36:05,040
memorial was kind of put
together.

641
00:36:05,480 --> 00:36:10,240
But but when he went out to EB
Grant and there was a a doctor

642
00:36:10,240 --> 00:36:16,600
McIntyre and he and 40 men were
collect were collected in the

643
00:36:16,600 --> 00:36:19,640
capacity of a mob and they
requested that doctor McIntyre

644
00:36:19,640 --> 00:36:22,680
take him out of the company and
he refused to do so.

645
00:36:22,680 --> 00:36:29,800
So a Mr. Hussey HUZZY who made
hats in Palmyra decided to offer

646
00:36:29,800 --> 00:36:33,440
his service and their aim was to
kill Joseph Smith before he

647
00:36:33,440 --> 00:36:34,960
could get the Book of Mormon
published.

648
00:36:35,240 --> 00:36:36,800
Right.
Most people don't know this.

649
00:36:36,800 --> 00:36:41,120
There was a mob assembled to
kill Joseph Smith before the

650
00:36:41,120 --> 00:36:42,920
Book of Mormon was published.
That's correct.

651
00:36:43,760 --> 00:36:47,240
On hearing this, Joseph's mother
told him not to go to see

652
00:36:47,240 --> 00:36:49,520
granted.
And then he, Joseph just smiled

653
00:36:50,160 --> 00:36:53,040
and said, never mind mother,
just put your trust in God and

654
00:36:53,040 --> 00:36:57,520
nothing will hurt me.
Today in a short time Joseph set

655
00:36:57,520 --> 00:37:01,520
off for Palmyra along its route.
He found the mob seated on a

656
00:37:01,520 --> 00:37:04,840
fence running along the road
coming to Mr. Hussey.

657
00:37:04,840 --> 00:37:08,520
First Joseph took off his hat
and good naturally said good

658
00:37:08,520 --> 00:37:11,520
morning Mr. Hussey.
Joseph passed on to the next

659
00:37:11,520 --> 00:37:14,600
man, who he saluted in light
matter in the next and so on.

660
00:37:15,600 --> 00:37:18,640
And this is from the history of
Joseph Smith by his mother.

661
00:37:18,640 --> 00:37:22,560
Quote this This struck them with
with confusion and while they

662
00:37:22,560 --> 00:37:25,760
were pondering in amazement,
Joseph passed on, leaving them

663
00:37:25,760 --> 00:37:30,000
perched upon the fence like so
many roosting chickens and he

664
00:37:30,000 --> 00:37:32,480
arrived at Pelmyra without being
molested.

665
00:37:32,560 --> 00:37:36,840
UN quote.
How would you like to know that

666
00:37:36,840 --> 00:37:38,640
a mob's not to kill you and you
just tell your mom.

667
00:37:38,640 --> 00:37:42,280
Say you know, trust God, I know
that we'll all be OK Is that did

668
00:37:42,280 --> 00:37:45,240
he say thus Saith the Lord.
I'm not sure.

669
00:37:45,240 --> 00:37:47,520
He might have.
We don't know.

670
00:37:47,520 --> 00:37:51,600
I mean this Max Smith wrote this
in what, the 1850s?

671
00:37:51,600 --> 00:37:54,160
Eighteen 60s from memory.
Yeah.

672
00:37:54,160 --> 00:37:55,480
But that happened.
OK.

673
00:37:56,280 --> 00:37:58,000
Absolutely phenomenal.
So.

674
00:37:58,480 --> 00:38:02,840
And the next one is Kirtland.
And this is really, really,

675
00:38:02,840 --> 00:38:06,280
really cool.
We all know about the Kirtland

676
00:38:06,280 --> 00:38:08,920
Safety Society, right?
Yep.

677
00:38:12,040 --> 00:38:16,280
There's no you know, the the,
the this, it, it failed.

678
00:38:16,280 --> 00:38:19,920
It was an anti banking society
because the state didn't allow

679
00:38:20,440 --> 00:38:28,000
the bank to have a charter and
so the country the whole country

680
00:38:28,000 --> 00:38:31,400
was on a bridge to the great
financial crisis and Joseph

681
00:38:31,400 --> 00:38:34,800
warned him, he pulled out.
He says this this bank is not

682
00:38:34,800 --> 00:38:38,400
built on righteous principles.
There's a lot of greed and and

683
00:38:38,440 --> 00:38:43,320
and fall fighting and things.
And So what happened is when

684
00:38:44,120 --> 00:38:48,560
through March and April of 1837,
about 50% of the financial

685
00:38:48,560 --> 00:38:52,240
institutions in the United
States, half of them went under,

686
00:38:52,240 --> 00:38:54,280
including the Kirtland Safety
Society.

687
00:38:54,960 --> 00:39:00,640
And there was fault fighting and
apostasy and Justice Smith had

688
00:39:00,640 --> 00:39:03,400
prophesied these problems and
then resigned his position at

689
00:39:03,400 --> 00:39:08,440
the bank in 1837.
Yet many people blamed the

690
00:39:08,440 --> 00:39:14,080
bank's failure on Joseph.
So much so that he and Emma and

691
00:39:14,080 --> 00:39:17,160
others left in the night to go
to Missouri because they thought

692
00:39:17,360 --> 00:39:23,600
people were going to kill him.
But before you, he left the

693
00:39:23,600 --> 00:39:25,480
bank.
Bills had become worthless.

694
00:39:26,480 --> 00:39:31,080
OK Joseph, before you left
prophesied, Check this out.

695
00:39:31,080 --> 00:39:34,440
Joseph prophesied that the
Kirtland notes would one day be

696
00:39:34,440 --> 00:39:38,680
as good as gold.
Well, now you know.

697
00:39:38,720 --> 00:39:42,600
Well, 10 years later, 10 years
later, check out what happened.

698
00:39:43,640 --> 00:39:46,160
They took some of the Kirtland
Bank notes with them through

699
00:39:46,160 --> 00:39:49,600
Naboo and out to Utah.
They were worthless.

700
00:39:50,920 --> 00:39:54,480
The Mormon Battalion came up
from California and had gold

701
00:39:54,480 --> 00:39:56,920
dust.
The gold dust brought, they

702
00:39:56,920 --> 00:39:59,400
brought it to Salt Lake and they
found it.

703
00:39:59,400 --> 00:40:01,600
It was inconvenient, difficult
to coin.

704
00:40:01,960 --> 00:40:06,080
So they got out the Kirtland
notes, signed them again and

705
00:40:06,080 --> 00:40:11,920
placed them, placed them on par
with gold.

706
00:40:12,720 --> 00:40:16,760
With gold that's fulfilling the
prophecy of Joseph that the

707
00:40:16,760 --> 00:40:21,040
Kirtland notes what would one
day be as good as gold in 10

708
00:40:21,120 --> 00:40:24,400
years?
Yep, how prophetic is that when

709
00:40:24,400 --> 00:40:27,160
the papers were absolutely
worthless and there was a lot of

710
00:40:27,160 --> 00:40:29,560
different banks that had paper
worth worthless.

711
00:40:29,840 --> 00:40:32,400
Yes.
Today any bank note is worth

712
00:40:32,400 --> 00:40:35,600
their weight in gold.
But to to say that that way then

713
00:40:35,960 --> 00:40:39,120
when all these banks were
failing and people I mean it's

714
00:40:39,120 --> 00:40:44,040
almost like the the the German
mark doing hyperinflation right

715
00:40:44,040 --> 00:40:47,280
before Hitler took you know the
old story that you somebody took

716
00:40:47,280 --> 00:40:50,280
a wheelbarrow full of German
marks to the grocery store to

717
00:40:50,280 --> 00:40:53,120
buy 11 loaf of bread and it came
out and the wheelbarrow was

718
00:40:53,280 --> 00:40:56,840
stolen and the and the paper was
just there on the ground.

719
00:40:57,040 --> 00:41:00,960
That's the way it was with the
with the Kirtland bank society

720
00:41:00,960 --> 00:41:02,600
notes.
And he prophesied that would be

721
00:41:02,600 --> 00:41:07,240
one day be as good as gold and
in 10 years they were as good as

722
00:41:07,280 --> 00:41:09,320
worth, as worth.
They were on par with gold.

723
00:41:09,760 --> 00:41:13,160
How prophetic.
Well, yeah, not just that, but

724
00:41:14,360 --> 00:41:16,720
ten years for a prophecy to come
to pass.

725
00:41:17,600 --> 00:41:22,400
That's that's darn near
instantaneous in the world of

726
00:41:22,400 --> 00:41:24,840
prophecy, right?
And.

727
00:41:24,920 --> 00:41:29,080
And in the context too.
Well, and and here's the other

728
00:41:29,080 --> 00:41:30,760
thing, right?
That's not the only prophecy

729
00:41:30,760 --> 00:41:33,960
that happened there.
He he also said, he also said,

730
00:41:33,960 --> 00:41:36,640
look, that this thing's not
built on correct principles.

731
00:41:36,880 --> 00:41:40,200
He resigns, he foretells what's
going to come.

732
00:41:40,520 --> 00:41:45,320
And I'm sure it wasn't just, you
know, obviously it wasn't just a

733
00:41:45,320 --> 00:41:47,360
problem with the Kirtland Safety
Society.

734
00:41:47,680 --> 00:41:50,600
This was a banking problem of
epic proportions throughout the

735
00:41:50,600 --> 00:41:54,520
whole country.
And so when when this collapses

736
00:41:55,360 --> 00:41:57,200
for some reason, they want to
blame Joseph.

737
00:41:57,200 --> 00:42:00,560
And I've never been able to
figure that out, but whatever.

738
00:42:01,200 --> 00:42:05,800
But the fact he's warning people
in advance, hey, this this

739
00:42:05,800 --> 00:42:08,080
doesn't hold up.
This is going to collapse.

740
00:42:08,520 --> 00:42:12,360
I mean he he, he even gave them
a a prophecy of you might want

741
00:42:12,360 --> 00:42:18,560
to get your money out.
Let's move on to the next year

742
00:42:18,560 --> 00:42:21,920
at the, you know, this is one of
my favorites because it happened

743
00:42:21,920 --> 00:42:31,080
in what happened in in actually
in the Liberty Jail and my

744
00:42:31,080 --> 00:42:35,640
wife's 4th grade grandfather was
with Joseph and Hiram.

745
00:42:35,640 --> 00:42:41,280
His name was Alexander McCray
and phenomenal experiences he,

746
00:42:41,440 --> 00:42:45,960
he was described for doctor
covenants one 21122 and 123

747
00:42:45,960 --> 00:42:50,680
given in Liberty Jail.
But anyway, so Joseph and Hiram

748
00:42:50,680 --> 00:42:52,280
are there.
Liberty Jail.

749
00:42:52,960 --> 00:42:57,000
Yeah, the winner of 1838 through
the spring of 1839.

750
00:42:57,480 --> 00:43:00,960
And we all know about Alexander
Donovan, who was an attorney

751
00:43:00,960 --> 00:43:05,520
that actually disobeyed A
unlawful order to execute

752
00:43:05,520 --> 00:43:08,080
Joseph.
And he became friends with

753
00:43:08,760 --> 00:43:13,400
Joseph and he came to Liberty
Jail and he was upstairs and

754
00:43:13,400 --> 00:43:20,920
kind of talking to another guard
about some he he was mentioning

755
00:43:20,920 --> 00:43:26,040
that he was offered some land in
Jackson County as payment for

756
00:43:26,040 --> 00:43:30,320
another client.
And Joseph overheard the

757
00:43:30,320 --> 00:43:33,440
conversation.
He said to Donovan, quote, I

758
00:43:33,440 --> 00:43:36,880
advise you not to take Jackson
County land and payment of the

759
00:43:36,880 --> 00:43:38,760
debt.
God hath.

760
00:43:39,120 --> 00:43:42,240
And this is again, Donovan was
dealing with another client and

761
00:43:42,240 --> 00:43:43,880
just mentioned that this guy
wanted to pay him.

762
00:43:44,480 --> 00:43:48,600
So Joseph said God's wrath hangs
over Jackson County.

763
00:43:48,600 --> 00:43:51,480
God's people have been
ruthlessly driven from it.

764
00:43:51,760 --> 00:43:57,080
And you, you will live to see
the day when it will be visited

765
00:43:57,080 --> 00:44:00,400
by fire and sword.
The Lord of hosts will sweep it

766
00:44:00,400 --> 00:44:05,120
with the bosom of destruction,
that fields and farms and houses

767
00:44:05,120 --> 00:44:09,000
will be destroyed, and only the
chimneys will be left to mark

768
00:44:09,000 --> 00:44:12,840
the desolation well.
The Civil War is a fulfillment

769
00:44:12,840 --> 00:44:17,560
of this prophecy in addition to
and and because in addition to

770
00:44:17,800 --> 00:44:22,080
tremendous destruction brought
by both the Northern troops and

771
00:44:22,080 --> 00:44:24,840
Quantrell Raiders, which is a
rebel group from the South.

772
00:44:25,240 --> 00:44:28,200
During the war Union soldiers
swept down on Jackson Cass and

773
00:44:28,200 --> 00:44:31,080
Bates, Bates counties, killing
animals, burning homes and

774
00:44:31,080 --> 00:44:32,960
fields, and molesting
inhabitants.

775
00:44:32,960 --> 00:44:36,160
The whole area was plundered,
left death, slipped by fire and

776
00:44:36,160 --> 00:44:38,640
sword, and some areas
depopulated.

777
00:44:38,640 --> 00:44:41,920
The sufferings of the Missouri
people have been thought by many

778
00:44:41,920 --> 00:44:44,520
writers to exceed at the
sufferings of the Mormons.

779
00:44:45,000 --> 00:44:49,960
Now in 1864, a soldier who
fought the Civil War described

780
00:44:49,960 --> 00:44:51,800
the condition in Missouri this
way.

781
00:44:51,800 --> 00:44:54,000
Quote.
We found houses, barns,

782
00:44:54,000 --> 00:44:56,480
outbuildings, nearly all
buildings burned down, and

783
00:44:56,480 --> 00:45:00,240
nothing left standing at the
chimneys.

784
00:45:01,280 --> 00:45:04,360
UN quote.
I so that one, that one I've

785
00:45:04,360 --> 00:45:07,800
heard.
That one I I've heard a a few

786
00:45:07,800 --> 00:45:10,800
different times.
And what I also find interesting

787
00:45:10,840 --> 00:45:16,040
with that Brian is that Brigham
Young makes his yellow dog.

788
00:45:16,440 --> 00:45:18,960
Prophecy sort of a thing in
conjunction with that.

789
00:45:19,520 --> 00:45:22,840
And then after the Civil War,
Brigham never brings it up

790
00:45:22,840 --> 00:45:26,640
again, ever.
I think Brigham even understood

791
00:45:26,840 --> 00:45:31,400
this is prophecy fulfilled.
This is what Joseph was talking

792
00:45:31,400 --> 00:45:35,800
about and I.
I've not been able to back this

793
00:45:35,800 --> 00:45:38,160
up.
This episode of the podcast is

794
00:45:38,160 --> 00:45:40,320
brought to you by Deseret
flag.com.

795
00:45:40,640 --> 00:45:42,600
I've said this before and I
really mean it.

796
00:45:42,600 --> 00:45:45,200
Mormonism isn't just a religion,
it's a culture.

797
00:45:45,640 --> 00:45:48,280
As such, it has its own
vernacular and practices, but

798
00:45:48,280 --> 00:45:51,040
also its own symbols.
And those symbols become even

799
00:45:51,040 --> 00:45:53,320
more important and prominent
when you look back into our

800
00:45:53,320 --> 00:45:55,160
history.
Perhaps one of the most

801
00:45:55,160 --> 00:45:58,080
recognizable symbols of
Mormonism is the Deseret flag.

802
00:45:58,360 --> 00:46:01,680
This is the flag that I use as
cover art in this podcast.

803
00:46:02,120 --> 00:46:05,080
This was also used for a good
chunk of time during the Pioneer

804
00:46:05,080 --> 00:46:07,760
era in Utah.
Now, today, we have people who

805
00:46:07,760 --> 00:46:10,760
want to replace the existing
Utah flag with some other

806
00:46:10,760 --> 00:46:13,840
progressive monstrosity.
Well, I think it's damn past

807
00:46:13,840 --> 00:46:16,520
time that we start pushing back
here a little bit in Utah.

808
00:46:16,880 --> 00:46:19,560
Our friends at Defending Utah
are here to help you with that.

809
00:46:19,800 --> 00:46:22,680
Now, if you go to
deseretflag.com, you can now

810
00:46:22,680 --> 00:46:24,680
purchase your own Deseret State
flag.

811
00:46:25,120 --> 00:46:28,320
It's time here that we start
making ourselves known and join

812
00:46:28,320 --> 00:46:31,120
the resistance against those who
seek to rewrite our state's

813
00:46:31,120 --> 00:46:34,640
history.
Go to deseretflag.com or check

814
00:46:34,640 --> 00:46:36,880
out the link in this episode's
page.

815
00:46:36,880 --> 00:46:40,240
Show notes and get yours today.
Can't get enough of the Mormon

816
00:46:40,240 --> 00:46:43,120
Renegade podcast?
Well, good news, we're on

817
00:46:43,120 --> 00:46:45,560
Patreon and there's three
packages that you can choose

818
00:46:45,560 --> 00:46:47,760
from.
The first one, the Slightly

819
00:46:47,760 --> 00:46:51,000
rowdy package, allows you to
hear the podcast without all

820
00:46:51,000 --> 00:46:52,960
those pesky commercials getting
in the way.

821
00:46:53,400 --> 00:46:56,040
For those who want a slightly
more in depth experience,

822
00:46:56,040 --> 00:46:59,000
there's the Stirring It Up
package where you can hear ad

823
00:46:59,000 --> 00:47:01,960
free audio, ad free video and
transcripts.

824
00:47:02,480 --> 00:47:04,880
Finally, for those who want to
go full Renegade.

825
00:47:05,320 --> 00:47:08,000
That package is available too,
where you can get everything in

826
00:47:08,000 --> 00:47:11,800
the previous two packages, plus
an extra show where myself and

827
00:47:11,800 --> 00:47:15,360
Ben Winfield breakdown the news
of the day from a very Mormon

828
00:47:15,360 --> 00:47:17,800
point of view.
You will also get exclusive

829
00:47:17,800 --> 00:47:21,560
access to Renegade Chat, and on
there you'll be able to talk to

830
00:47:21,560 --> 00:47:24,080
others about the show or
whatever topics are on your

831
00:47:24,080 --> 00:47:26,920
mind.
Go to Patreon today and get your

832
00:47:26,920 --> 00:47:30,160
exclusive content only by one
account.

833
00:47:30,160 --> 00:47:33,080
And I usually don't like talking
about things unless I can find

834
00:47:33,080 --> 00:47:36,280
it in two or three places.
But there's actually a statement

835
00:47:36,280 --> 00:47:40,040
from Donovan that someone was
telling me about where he

836
00:47:40,040 --> 00:47:42,280
actually says, you know, he
looks around.

837
00:47:42,280 --> 00:47:45,400
He says, gentlemen, today you've
seen it, right?

838
00:47:45,400 --> 00:47:49,840
You, you've seen this fulfilled
and and I I know as Mormons,

839
00:47:49,840 --> 00:47:52,840
we're, you know, a lot of times
we're we're hesitant about

840
00:47:52,880 --> 00:47:55,640
Missouri because we're like, oh,
well, there there's judgment

841
00:47:55,640 --> 00:47:58,360
coming.
And sometimes we don't even

842
00:47:58,360 --> 00:48:00,560
recognize when prophecy is
fulfilled.

843
00:48:00,560 --> 00:48:08,520
Uh huh.
I do have an and a postcard here

844
00:48:08,520 --> 00:48:13,280
painting painted by Tom Lee
Annan, Mormon in 1865 that shows

845
00:48:13,280 --> 00:48:17,240
a family in Jackson County
returns of a Confederate family

846
00:48:17,240 --> 00:48:21,160
to their burn and barren farm in
Jackson County after Civil War.

847
00:48:21,600 --> 00:48:23,800
Only the chimney of the house is
left standing.

848
00:48:23,800 --> 00:48:27,200
He had no idea he was painting
the fulfillment of Joseph's

849
00:48:27,440 --> 00:48:30,200
prophecy.
I wish I could share screen with

850
00:48:30,200 --> 00:48:31,160
you there, but.
I can do that.

851
00:48:31,160 --> 00:48:33,160
I can grant you access to share
screen.

852
00:48:33,160 --> 00:48:36,120
Yeah, give me just one second.
Let's see.

853
00:48:36,120 --> 00:48:38,720
OK, you should be ready to go.
Can you see that there?

854
00:48:38,880 --> 00:48:39,680
Yeah, I can.
Yeah.

855
00:48:39,680 --> 00:48:41,200
Getting here at the bottom.
Oops.

856
00:48:42,200 --> 00:48:43,040
Oops.
I skimmed.

857
00:48:43,520 --> 00:48:48,960
This is painted by a non LDS guy
in 1865 fulfilling that

858
00:48:48,960 --> 00:48:51,800
prophecy.
And while we got it, this is.

859
00:48:52,040 --> 00:48:54,040
Fascinating what the book looks
like.

860
00:48:54,480 --> 00:48:56,280
So very cool.
Continue.

861
00:48:57,400 --> 00:49:03,080
Let's go to the Nauvoo era era.
This is a lot of people know

862
00:49:03,080 --> 00:49:07,680
about Oren Porter Rockwell or
Porter Rockwell or OP Rockwell.

863
00:49:07,680 --> 00:49:10,120
There's a couple names for him
and he plays.

864
00:49:13,400 --> 00:49:15,920
I really fell in love with him
when I was right in my history

865
00:49:15,920 --> 00:49:21,640
of Warsaw, because OP Rockwell's
first confirmed kill was Frank

866
00:49:21,640 --> 00:49:26,200
Worrell who was at the AT one of
the Carthage Grays at the at the

867
00:49:27,080 --> 00:49:31,080
at the day of the martyrdom and
he actually sent a note to the

868
00:49:31,080 --> 00:49:35,240
Warsaw mob that he collected.
They had assembled over by of

869
00:49:35,240 --> 00:49:38,320
little town called Golden's
Point and they were going to go

870
00:49:38,320 --> 00:49:40,400
out.
They turned that Thomas Ford was

871
00:49:40,400 --> 00:49:43,360
in Nabu, which he was the day of
the martyrdom.

872
00:49:43,640 --> 00:49:46,680
They had heard that Thomas Ford
had been kidnapped by the

873
00:49:46,680 --> 00:49:51,480
Mormons and was in distress and
needed to be rescued.

874
00:49:52,200 --> 00:49:56,080
And so this this mob from
Warsaw, 2 regiments from Warsaw

875
00:49:56,080 --> 00:50:00,200
and one from nearby Green Plains
went up to Golden's point and

876
00:50:00,240 --> 00:50:03,360
the governor heard got word of
this and sent a messenger, told

877
00:50:03,360 --> 00:50:06,000
them to go home.
And while they were there a

878
00:50:06,000 --> 00:50:11,000
messenger got a note sent,
excuse me, came with a note from

879
00:50:11,000 --> 00:50:14,280
Frank Warrell.
And Frank Warrell had written

880
00:50:14,280 --> 00:50:17,600
now's the time to do the deed
and that that it in the hands of

881
00:50:17,600 --> 00:50:20,480
Thomas Sharp.
And so here's this Warsaw mob.

882
00:50:20,960 --> 00:50:23,640
It's about noon.
It's the day of the martyrdom

883
00:50:23,680 --> 00:50:26,760
there at Golden's Point.
Some say, well, we're going to

884
00:50:26,760 --> 00:50:29,000
obey the governor, we're going
to go back to Warsaw.

885
00:50:29,000 --> 00:50:31,640
And some of them listen to
Thomas Sharp and say now's the

886
00:50:31,640 --> 00:50:33,920
time to do the deed.
Frank Worrell told us this.

887
00:50:33,920 --> 00:50:36,560
Let's go on and kill Joseph
Smith, which they did.

888
00:50:38,720 --> 00:50:43,200
Year later, Frank Warrell's
chasing the sheriff out of

889
00:50:43,200 --> 00:50:47,160
Warsaw, and Porter Rockwell
raises his gun and shoots Frank

890
00:50:47,280 --> 00:50:51,200
Warrell, the guard who's told
the mob to come kill Joseph

891
00:50:51,200 --> 00:50:53,080
Smith.
Most people don't know that

892
00:50:53,080 --> 00:50:57,880
story, so that's in my book.
By the way, let's talk about

893
00:50:57,880 --> 00:50:59,280
Porter Rockwell.
OK.

894
00:50:59,560 --> 00:51:02,920
He was arrested at March.
He know the story most people do

895
00:51:02,920 --> 00:51:05,160
that.
He was accused of trying to kill

896
00:51:05,720 --> 00:51:10,360
Governor Boggs, Liberan Boggs
and of course assassin Miss And

897
00:51:10,440 --> 00:51:13,200
Porter said, well, that's how
you know it wasn't me, because

898
00:51:13,200 --> 00:51:15,480
it was me.
I would have got it.

899
00:51:15,480 --> 00:51:21,280
But Porter Rockwell was arrested
in March 4th, 1843 in Saint

900
00:51:21,280 --> 00:51:24,640
Louis and he was put in what
they call iron hobbles or or

901
00:51:24,640 --> 00:51:26,560
chains and taken to
independence.

902
00:51:28,200 --> 00:51:31,640
Now this is after, you know,
four years after the

903
00:51:31,640 --> 00:51:35,720
extermination order and Porter
Rockwell is now an independence

904
00:51:35,720 --> 00:51:38,640
and kind of enemy territory,
right?

905
00:51:39,920 --> 00:51:43,840
About 11 days later, actually,
on March 15th, Joseph spoke of

906
00:51:43,840 --> 00:51:46,240
Rockwell's fate.
He said, quote I prophecy in the

907
00:51:46,240 --> 00:51:48,600
name of the Lord Jesus Christ,
Oran Porter.

908
00:51:48,600 --> 00:51:54,280
Rockwell will get away honorably
from the Missourians, really.

909
00:51:54,520 --> 00:51:56,920
He's intimate at enemy
territory.

910
00:51:57,200 --> 00:52:00,480
He's getting charged with
shooting, a shooting at the

911
00:52:00,480 --> 00:52:03,200
governor.
They hate the Mormons, right?

912
00:52:03,200 --> 00:52:06,320
So guess what happened.
Rockwell was tried December 13th

913
00:52:06,800 --> 00:52:09,520
that same year, 1843, and the
charge of shooting former

914
00:52:09,520 --> 00:52:11,160
Governor Boggs could not be
sustained.

915
00:52:11,160 --> 00:52:14,600
And he was released.
Yep, Yep.

916
00:52:14,680 --> 00:52:17,440
I think that's absolutely
phenomenal because the odds were

917
00:52:17,440 --> 00:52:19,280
against that.
But he prophesied.

918
00:52:20,040 --> 00:52:22,320
Yeah, the odds are so against
that, right?

919
00:52:22,600 --> 00:52:26,200
Because, you know, this is a
short time after they've booted

920
00:52:26,200 --> 00:52:28,880
the Mormons out.
The foment is still heavy, the

921
00:52:28,880 --> 00:52:34,240
hatred is still there and
somehow justice prevails.

922
00:52:34,240 --> 00:52:36,760
People don't need need now.
People need to understand.

923
00:52:36,760 --> 00:52:39,520
In fact when Thomas Sharp was
trying to gather people and and

924
00:52:39,520 --> 00:52:44,200
hatred against the Mormons in in
1844 and and Jenny writes in his

925
00:52:44,200 --> 00:52:47,160
newspaper he calls for his
friends in Missouri and other

926
00:52:47,160 --> 00:52:50,200
states to come join him to help
get rid of this Mormon prophet

927
00:52:50,920 --> 00:52:55,160
and he relied heavily on the
hatred in in Missouri.

928
00:52:56,360 --> 00:53:01,040
In fact, Joseph made a prophecy
one time in the 1840s and now he

929
00:53:01,040 --> 00:53:04,120
says, you will I prophecy?
I will never go to Missouri

930
00:53:04,120 --> 00:53:08,040
again or I'm not a prophet.
Some, some along that line.

931
00:53:08,200 --> 00:53:11,680
And he was arrested by
Missourian Lawnmen and and and

932
00:53:11,840 --> 00:53:15,440
and gonna be taken to Missouri.
But that never happened, right?

933
00:53:15,960 --> 00:53:17,440
That's a whole different
prophecy.

934
00:53:17,440 --> 00:53:19,360
Again.
There's hundreds of fulfilled

935
00:53:19,360 --> 00:53:21,720
prophecies.
One I'd like to talk about was

936
00:53:21,720 --> 00:53:29,360
dealing with, you know, Douglas,
you know we have the Lincoln

937
00:53:29,360 --> 00:53:32,840
Douglas, Stephen Douglas, the
Lincoln Douglas debates.

938
00:53:32,840 --> 00:53:36,920
And boy Lincoln is just so big.
If you if you go over to to to

939
00:53:36,920 --> 00:53:39,840
Carthage now and go across the
street from the jail to the

940
00:53:40,800 --> 00:53:45,840
Hancock County Kibbe Museum half
that is dedicated toward

941
00:53:46,440 --> 00:53:49,280
President Lincoln.
And I'm like, well, did you you

942
00:53:49,280 --> 00:53:52,680
know, know that Lincoln got
there because Joseph made a

943
00:53:52,680 --> 00:53:55,000
prophecy.
See what happened in May 18th,

944
00:53:55,000 --> 00:54:02,640
1843, Joseph was having dinner
in Carthage with a couple people

945
00:54:02,640 --> 00:54:08,320
from the church.
Orson Hyde was one of them with

946
00:54:08,320 --> 00:54:13,520
the sheriff, Sheriff Bacintose
and with Stephen Douglas.

947
00:54:14,240 --> 00:54:20,360
And they were kind of friends
and Joseph and people have heard

948
00:54:20,360 --> 00:54:24,240
this said that you will yet
expire.

949
00:54:24,240 --> 00:54:26,640
He said this to Stephen Douglas.
You will yet inspired to the

950
00:54:26,640 --> 00:54:29,960
presidency of the United States.
But if you ever raise your hand

951
00:54:29,960 --> 00:54:33,280
or your voice against the Latter
Day Saints, you shall never be

952
00:54:33,280 --> 00:54:36,960
President of the United States.
Have you heard that prophecy

953
00:54:36,960 --> 00:54:38,360
before?
I have not.

954
00:54:39,320 --> 00:54:45,160
Well, in 1857 Stephen Douglas
called the Mormons quote a

955
00:54:45,160 --> 00:54:49,880
disgusting cancer and called for
the repeal of the territorial

956
00:54:49,880 --> 00:54:54,880
status of Utah.
Douglas's popularity has

957
00:54:54,880 --> 00:54:56,960
increased.
He was assuming for the

958
00:54:56,960 --> 00:55:02,640
presidency dominant party.
The last election there was

959
00:55:02,640 --> 00:55:05,200
three main political parties in
the United States.

960
00:55:05,200 --> 00:55:08,480
His party got more votes than
the other two parties combined.

961
00:55:09,000 --> 00:55:14,280
But in 1860 it was an absolute
shocker when a little known guy

962
00:55:14,280 --> 00:55:20,040
named Abraham Lincoln got 180
electoral votes and Douglas got

963
00:55:20,040 --> 00:55:23,440
12.
Right, Lincoln had said.

964
00:55:23,440 --> 00:55:26,880
Leave the Mormons alone.
Douglas Scott, 12.

965
00:55:26,880 --> 00:55:28,040
He was.
It was supposed to be an

966
00:55:28,040 --> 00:55:32,200
absolute landslide, and he only
won two states.

967
00:55:32,520 --> 00:55:35,880
Wow.
No, I've not heard that

968
00:55:35,880 --> 00:55:36,960
prophecy.
I knew that.

969
00:55:36,960 --> 00:55:39,800
I knew that Douglas lost big
time to Lincoln and it was a

970
00:55:39,800 --> 00:55:41,640
shock.
But I hadn't heard that prophecy

971
00:55:41,640 --> 00:55:46,040
by Joseph Smith.
Well and November 27th, right

972
00:55:46,040 --> 00:55:48,600
after the election results in
1860.

973
00:55:48,600 --> 00:55:53,040
Orson Hyde, responding to this
disastrous selection result for

974
00:55:53,040 --> 00:55:56,720
Douglas, wrote, and I I give
credit to this slide from my to

975
00:55:56,720 --> 00:55:59,840
my friend Craig Dunn, who's a
professor down in in Utah.

976
00:56:00,480 --> 00:56:03,840
He sent me this, he says Will
Orson, Hyde wrote on the letter.

977
00:56:03,840 --> 00:56:06,400
Will the judge, meaning Stephen
Douglas, now acknowledge that

978
00:56:06,400 --> 00:56:11,000
Joseph Smith was a true prophet?
If he will not, does he not

979
00:56:11,240 --> 00:56:16,320
recollect a certain conversation
that Mister Joseph Smith at the

980
00:56:16,320 --> 00:56:20,240
House of Sheriff back in Towson,
Carthage, IL, in the year 1843,

981
00:56:20,240 --> 00:56:24,080
in which Mr. Smith said and
again quote, you will yet aspire

982
00:56:24,080 --> 00:56:26,400
to the presidency of the United
States?

983
00:56:26,400 --> 00:56:29,840
But if you will, if you ever
raise your hand or your voice

984
00:56:29,840 --> 00:56:32,840
against the Latter Day Saints,
you shall never be President of

985
00:56:32,840 --> 00:56:38,440
the United States.
That was just a powerful,

986
00:56:38,440 --> 00:56:40,360
powerful prophecy.
And guess what happened?

987
00:56:40,360 --> 00:56:44,720
Stephen Douglas died a year
later in 1861 at age 80, at age

988
00:56:44,720 --> 00:56:50,280
48, a disappointed man he only
got he only won two States and

989
00:56:50,280 --> 00:56:54,280
he was a shoo in an absolute
landslide, and he raised his

990
00:56:54,280 --> 00:56:57,040
hands against and his voice
against the states.

991
00:56:57,200 --> 00:57:01,720
He also called the the the
Mormons that loathsome ulcer on

992
00:57:01,720 --> 00:57:06,520
the body politic, and he
recommended a knife be applied

993
00:57:06,520 --> 00:57:10,000
to cut it out.
So I'm guessing him and Brigham

994
00:57:10,000 --> 00:57:11,840
Young didn't exchange Christmas
cards.

995
00:57:12,080 --> 00:57:15,480
Christmas cards?
Well, he died within a year,

996
00:57:15,960 --> 00:57:19,120
right?
Have you heard of the Battle of

997
00:57:19,120 --> 00:57:21,960
Buena Vista and that prophecy?
No.

998
00:57:22,640 --> 00:57:25,560
Oh, this is just, this is a
great prophecy.

999
00:57:25,960 --> 00:57:30,400
So Joseph and Hiram and and
several members of the church go

1000
00:57:30,400 --> 00:57:34,120
to Carthage and I really kind of
get into this part in my book

1001
00:57:34,120 --> 00:57:36,560
and there's a lot of books that
deal with it that they the all

1002
00:57:36,560 --> 00:57:39,840
time classic of course is The
Carthage Conspiracy by Marv Hill

1003
00:57:39,840 --> 00:57:43,400
and Alan Oaks where they've got
gotten back and it's really

1004
00:57:43,400 --> 00:57:46,280
great story.
But Joseph kind of has bounced

1005
00:57:46,280 --> 00:57:51,440
around in the night of June
25th, 1844 actually I believe

1006
00:57:51,440 --> 00:57:54,280
this happened about noon.
They're they're gathering around

1007
00:57:54,280 --> 00:57:59,800
and Joseph is actually staying
at the Hamilton house, which is

1008
00:57:59,840 --> 00:58:03,560
about two blocks east of the
Carthage jail and it's about

1009
00:58:03,680 --> 00:58:06,720
actually four blocks.
E we just were there at the site

1010
00:58:06,720 --> 00:58:10,000
it it's no longer stands.
We were there last week and

1011
00:58:10,000 --> 00:58:13,320
there's a little marker there
where the Hamilton house was and

1012
00:58:13,320 --> 00:58:17,400
Joseph's gathered around and and
there's some anti warns there's

1013
00:58:17,440 --> 00:58:23,720
there's some members of the
military regiments and things

1014
00:58:24,040 --> 00:58:27,560
they're eating and talking and
he basically says gentlemen, do

1015
00:58:27,560 --> 00:58:30,800
I look like you know the man
that you've that you've been led

1016
00:58:30,800 --> 00:58:32,240
to believe.
And they said no.

1017
00:58:32,240 --> 00:58:33,880
And he says, you can't see my
heart.

1018
00:58:34,640 --> 00:58:36,520
He says, but I can see what's in
your heart.

1019
00:58:36,560 --> 00:58:39,520
And this is Joseph Smith talking
to these these people who would

1020
00:58:39,520 --> 00:58:43,760
eventually be part of either the
mob or or people outside, you

1021
00:58:43,760 --> 00:58:46,880
know, waiting and watching and
what's happening.

1022
00:58:47,200 --> 00:58:49,520
Joseph says, I I will tell you
what I see.

1023
00:58:49,520 --> 00:58:51,440
I could see in your heart, and I
will tell you what I see.

1024
00:58:51,440 --> 00:58:54,760
You thirst for blood and nothing
but my blood will satisfy you.

1025
00:58:55,280 --> 00:59:00,040
And he says, I prophecy in the
name of the Lord, that you shall

1026
00:59:00,040 --> 00:59:03,200
witness scenes of blood to your
entire satisfaction.

1027
00:59:03,720 --> 00:59:08,600
And many of you who are now
present shall face the cannon's

1028
00:59:08,600 --> 00:59:13,840
mouth from sources you think not
of UN quote.

1029
00:59:14,600 --> 00:59:19,040
Well, during the Mexican War a
few years later, some of these

1030
00:59:19,040 --> 00:59:24,320
men were called to battle, and
that was the battle of Buena

1031
00:59:24,320 --> 00:59:27,000
Vista.
And they got caught in friendly

1032
00:59:27,000 --> 00:59:29,640
fire, and a bunch of them were
killed.

1033
00:59:29,640 --> 00:59:34,720
I think this is within a decade.
Within 10 years, these soldiers

1034
00:59:34,720 --> 00:59:39,240
and it was against Santa Ana the
the Mexican war.

1035
00:59:39,240 --> 00:59:41,400
You can read up on it.
But the battle of Buena Vista

1036
00:59:41,400 --> 00:59:45,360
fulfilled this prophecy where
some of these men were caught in

1037
00:59:45,520 --> 00:59:49,040
in the in crossfire and they
were killed by friendly fire and

1038
00:59:49,040 --> 00:59:54,440
they faced Cannon's mouth.
From sources you think not of I

1039
00:59:54,480 --> 01:00:00,160
prophecy in the name of the Lord
that came true at the battle of

1040
01:00:00,160 --> 01:00:03,520
Le Buena Vista.
You can't just get these things

1041
01:00:03,520 --> 01:00:07,360
just time after time after time
after time, right?

1042
01:00:07,960 --> 01:00:11,480
Without having the spirit of
prophecy and being a prophet of

1043
01:00:11,480 --> 01:00:14,080
God.
I mean, we all know June 27th,

1044
01:00:14,080 --> 01:00:18,080
1844, right at 5:16, the mob
storm Carthagell.

1045
01:00:18,080 --> 01:00:20,200
We know that time from from
Taylor's watch.

1046
01:00:20,720 --> 01:00:23,000
But Joseph told what Willard
Richards.

1047
01:00:23,000 --> 01:00:25,680
Everybody knows this time will
come, that balls will fly around

1048
01:00:25,680 --> 01:00:28,240
you.
Willard Richards and he's and

1049
01:00:28,320 --> 01:00:30,080
his This is kind of the second
quote.

1050
01:00:30,280 --> 01:00:33,680
And he should see a second
person, and he shall see his

1051
01:00:33,680 --> 01:00:36,440
friends fall on the left, and
the right and the left.

1052
01:00:36,440 --> 01:00:39,440
But there should not be a hole
in his garment, right?

1053
01:00:39,680 --> 01:00:41,880
Because that one.
Right to pass, Yeah, absolutely,

1054
01:00:42,040 --> 01:00:43,800
They came to pass.
The bullet graces here.

1055
01:00:44,000 --> 01:00:46,520
Nothing struck his garment, and
he was the biggest man in the

1056
01:00:46,520 --> 01:00:49,280
room by about double.
Yep, He was.

1057
01:00:49,280 --> 01:00:50,400
He was.
He was.

1058
01:00:50,640 --> 01:00:53,000
He was a man after my own heart
of robust birth.

1059
01:00:53,720 --> 01:00:56,640
So.
But Joseph prophesied that balls

1060
01:00:56,640 --> 01:00:59,000
would fly around him and his
friends would fall on the left,

1061
01:00:59,000 --> 01:01:00,800
right and the left.
But there should not be a hole

1062
01:01:00,800 --> 01:01:03,280
in his garment.
How do you get that one right?

1063
01:01:04,560 --> 01:01:07,440
Yeah, yeah.
Especially in the scene that was

1064
01:01:08,920 --> 01:01:11,320
Carthage jail, right?
Because bullets are coming from

1065
01:01:11,320 --> 01:01:14,280
every direction, right?
Both from the door and from the

1066
01:01:14,280 --> 01:01:18,480
window.
And somehow he manages to escape

1067
01:01:18,480 --> 01:01:22,960
with a scratch right on his ear.
Not not through his clothes at

1068
01:01:22,960 --> 01:01:23,760
all.
Yep.

1069
01:01:23,800 --> 01:01:27,280
So can I share with you his
Joseph Smith's last prophecy?

1070
01:01:27,440 --> 01:01:28,880
Please do.
Given to somebody else.

1071
01:01:28,880 --> 01:01:31,800
Now, the next morning, he he
kind of prophesied to the rights

1072
01:01:31,880 --> 01:01:34,000
of the church.
But this is a personal prophecy,

1073
01:01:34,280 --> 01:01:36,480
and it was a night before the
martyrdom.

1074
01:01:37,320 --> 01:01:40,160
And I hope I can get through it,
'cause I get quite emotional

1075
01:01:40,400 --> 01:01:44,440
because it's so powerful.
Many people in the church have

1076
01:01:44,440 --> 01:01:49,400
heard of Dan Jones.
Captain Dan Jones, in fact, he

1077
01:01:49,400 --> 01:01:52,960
was a very powerful Nauvoo
convert and became friends with

1078
01:01:52,960 --> 01:01:54,880
Joseph.
And he was there the night of

1079
01:01:55,720 --> 01:02:00,040
before the martyrdom.
And he had gotten a mission call

1080
01:02:00,040 --> 01:02:04,640
to return to his native whales.
And they were laying on the

1081
01:02:04,640 --> 01:02:08,040
floor and they heard gunshots at
the square of Carthage and some

1082
01:02:08,040 --> 01:02:10,720
different things.
And they were, well, they kind

1083
01:02:10,720 --> 01:02:14,600
of knew the end was was coming.
And Dan Jones asked the Prophet

1084
01:02:14,600 --> 01:02:16,640
Joseph Smith if he was ready to
die.

1085
01:02:16,640 --> 01:02:20,600
And Joseph talked for a little
bit and then asked Dan Jones the

1086
01:02:20,600 --> 01:02:25,240
same, and he wasn't quite sure.
And then Joseph said, you shall

1087
01:02:25,360 --> 01:02:29,240
yet see whales and fulfill the
mission appointed to you.

1088
01:02:31,320 --> 01:02:34,000
And that was kind of cool
because here's what happened the

1089
01:02:34,000 --> 01:02:38,920
next day.
Dan left and went and got some,

1090
01:02:40,360 --> 01:02:43,360
ran an errand or two for Joseph
and came back and got some

1091
01:02:43,360 --> 01:02:46,480
papers.
And Joseph said to Dan, he says,

1092
01:02:46,480 --> 01:02:50,400
I want you to go to Quincy and
get my attorney and here's some

1093
01:02:50,400 --> 01:02:52,920
papers I want to for you to give
to him.

1094
01:02:53,360 --> 01:02:57,920
And so Dan is outside Carthage
and the mob there sees Dan with

1095
01:02:57,920 --> 01:03:04,320
some papers and they think that
Dan is going to Naavu to rally

1096
01:03:04,320 --> 01:03:07,000
the troops that the Naavu Legion
had been disbanded.

1097
01:03:07,000 --> 01:03:09,680
But maybe they were going to get
them back together and come

1098
01:03:09,680 --> 01:03:13,480
rescue Joseph.
And so the mob shoots at Dan

1099
01:03:13,480 --> 01:03:17,400
right outside the Carthage jail,
and they miss him.

1100
01:03:17,480 --> 01:03:22,000
But it confuses his horse so
much that they went down the

1101
01:03:22,000 --> 01:03:26,880
wrong road to Quincy.
And it saved Dan's life because

1102
01:03:26,880 --> 01:03:30,240
a mile or two out of town, of
the ways out of town, a mob had

1103
01:03:30,240 --> 01:03:34,800
come combined with orders to
kill anyone, any Mormon that

1104
01:03:34,800 --> 01:03:38,800
came that down that road.
So Dan didn't get shot at

1105
01:03:38,800 --> 01:03:42,880
Carthage even though they aimed
at him and he didn't get killed

1106
01:03:43,000 --> 01:03:45,760
on the road to Quincy 'cause he
went down the wrong Rd.

1107
01:03:46,000 --> 01:03:51,280
He avoided death two times and
then he made it to the river and

1108
01:03:51,280 --> 01:03:53,360
got on a boat that went by
Warsaw.

1109
01:03:53,920 --> 01:03:57,680
And that afternoon that night he
was on this, on this boat going

1110
01:03:57,680 --> 01:04:01,280
down to Quincy, not knowing what
had happened in Carthage and a

1111
01:04:01,280 --> 01:04:07,200
mob members inspected the boat
with orders to kill any Mormons.

1112
01:04:08,000 --> 01:04:10,880
They could not see him on the
boat, even though he was there

1113
01:04:10,960 --> 01:04:14,760
and his life was spared a third
time that very day.

1114
01:04:15,400 --> 01:04:21,040
And he did go on not only to 1
mission to Wales, but two

1115
01:04:21,040 --> 01:04:24,600
missions to Wales.
He published thousands of pages

1116
01:04:24,600 --> 01:04:26,560
of tracks.
He converted.

1117
01:04:27,040 --> 01:04:29,560
He was a missionary that helped
convert the spirit converts.

1118
01:04:29,560 --> 01:04:33,520
But he taught.
Over 5000 people that joined the

1119
01:04:33,520 --> 01:04:37,200
church came to Utah.
He he was one of the most

1120
01:04:37,280 --> 01:04:40,520
prolific missionaries of the
Restoration.

1121
01:04:41,320 --> 01:04:44,720
If you open up the missionary
manual called Preach My Gospel

1122
01:04:44,720 --> 01:04:50,120
on Lesson One, page one is a
painting of Dan Jones preaching

1123
01:04:50,440 --> 01:04:54,760
in Wales.
If you go to the Provo MPC, his

1124
01:04:54,760 --> 01:04:59,000
painting of Dan Jones's painting
is on the wall when you walk in.

1125
01:05:00,080 --> 01:05:03,680
Wow.
He became the mayor of Manti,

1126
01:05:03,680 --> 01:05:06,600
Utah.
In fact, some of his Saints,

1127
01:05:06,600 --> 01:05:08,520
they were coming back from
Wales.

1128
01:05:09,360 --> 01:05:12,520
And by the way he could preach
for 8:00 or 10 hours and keep

1129
01:05:12,520 --> 01:05:15,400
people's rapt attention.
It's he was a little guy.

1130
01:05:15,400 --> 01:05:21,080
He'd stand on a on a box and and
preach and his he were coming

1131
01:05:21,080 --> 01:05:26,160
back to to Utah and they were
having a general conference and

1132
01:05:26,160 --> 01:05:30,440
they needed a choir.
And his Welsh Saints were

1133
01:05:30,440 --> 01:05:36,360
musical and they put together a
choir of Dan Jones's converts

1134
01:05:36,680 --> 01:05:41,080
and they sang at the general
conference of the church in Salt

1135
01:05:41,080 --> 01:05:44,800
Lake City.
And that choir became the

1136
01:05:44,800 --> 01:05:48,800
foundation for the Mormon
Tabernacle Choir.

1137
01:05:49,200 --> 01:05:51,360
Alcohol.
The choir Temple Square.

1138
01:05:52,000 --> 01:05:55,680
That was the last prophecy of
Joseph Smith to a person, Dan

1139
01:05:55,680 --> 01:05:59,440
Jones, that he will live through
Carthage and he will yet see

1140
01:05:59,440 --> 01:06:00,920
whales.
Wow.

1141
01:06:00,920 --> 01:06:05,640
And then go on to influence.
Mormoned them as we know it.

1142
01:06:06,160 --> 01:06:09,680
Oh geez, in in so many ways.
Now if you can share your screen

1143
01:06:09,680 --> 01:06:12,080
one more time, I want to share
with you one of the coolest

1144
01:06:12,080 --> 01:06:14,640
things here.
Yep, it's it's still on.

1145
01:06:14,640 --> 01:06:21,520
You can still share kind of the
whole prophetic thing lingered

1146
01:06:21,520 --> 01:06:26,760
with Joseph after the martyrdom.
You know the New York paper.

1147
01:06:26,760 --> 01:06:30,200
You may have heard this right
after the martyrdom wrote Joseph

1148
01:06:30,200 --> 01:06:33,560
Smith said Best ends Mormonism.
Right.

1149
01:06:33,560 --> 01:06:36,240
Have you heard that?
That's against Mormonism.

1150
01:06:36,720 --> 01:06:41,280
Well, I somebody else.
Let's see, we'll we'll full

1151
01:06:41,280 --> 01:06:45,360
screen this.
Let me remove this here the

1152
01:06:45,360 --> 01:06:47,720
large scale sentiment.
Joseph Smith the Mormon prophet

1153
01:06:47,720 --> 01:06:50,560
is dead.
Thus Lynn ends Mormon Mormonism

1154
01:06:50,560 --> 01:06:52,960
headline of the New York Weekly
Herald.

1155
01:06:53,560 --> 01:06:57,680
But there was just a spirit of
Joseph Smith the Mormon prophet.

1156
01:06:57,680 --> 01:07:00,400
And this picture here is a
newspaper article.

1157
01:07:00,400 --> 01:07:02,800
Again, my friend Craig Dentz
just said this to me.

1158
01:07:03,240 --> 01:07:07,400
This is a New York Tribune, July
20th, 1844.

1159
01:07:08,240 --> 01:07:11,600
OK, so this is less than a month
after the martyrdom in this

1160
01:07:11,600 --> 01:07:15,720
newspaper, this, this critic was
talking about how he had a rough

1161
01:07:15,720 --> 01:07:18,480
exterior and this and that.
But he says Joseph Smith has

1162
01:07:18,480 --> 01:07:25,800
carved out for himself a title
to a page in the history of this

1163
01:07:26,080 --> 01:07:29,560
of his country, and his name
will be remembered for good or

1164
01:07:29,560 --> 01:07:32,120
for evil.
And when it names of half the

1165
01:07:32,120 --> 01:07:35,800
statesman of the age, when they
when the names of half the

1166
01:07:35,800 --> 01:07:38,160
statesman of the age will be
forgotten.

1167
01:07:39,240 --> 01:07:42,040
Catch this wording.
Joseph Smith is carved out for

1168
01:07:42,040 --> 01:07:45,600
himself a title to a page in the
history of this country.

1169
01:07:47,920 --> 01:07:51,800
And yet the the large scale
sentiment is Mormonism is dead

1170
01:07:52,040 --> 01:07:54,200
right?
Well, guess what?

1171
01:07:54,200 --> 01:08:00,840
In 2015, the Smithsonian
Magazine published a list of the

1172
01:08:00,840 --> 01:08:05,640
most 130 most significant
Americans of all time.

1173
01:08:08,440 --> 01:08:14,880
A number one religious figure is
Joseph Smith, and he carved out

1174
01:08:15,440 --> 01:08:21,200
with this painting here his own
page in the in the history, in

1175
01:08:21,200 --> 01:08:25,240
American History.
Holy cow.

1176
01:08:25,319 --> 01:08:27,760
Yeah.
So here's a quote again.

1177
01:08:28,680 --> 01:08:31,800
Joseph Smith has carved out for
himself a title to a page in the

1178
01:08:31,800 --> 01:08:39,359
history of his country. 2015 #1
Religious Figure in America.

1179
01:08:39,960 --> 01:08:43,080
Joseph Smith was with his own
page here on the on the right

1180
01:08:43,080 --> 01:08:46,600
side.
Number one, Number one.

1181
01:08:47,279 --> 01:08:52,800
So, so Dave, you tell me, did
God give Joseph Smith a

1182
01:08:52,800 --> 01:08:55,240
prophetic gift?
Absolutely he did.

1183
01:08:55,720 --> 01:08:58,880
Absolutely he did.
Unfortunately, we don't teach us

1184
01:08:58,880 --> 01:09:00,560
enough.
We don't teach us to our young

1185
01:09:00,560 --> 01:09:05,760
people.
That's really the foundation of

1186
01:09:05,920 --> 01:09:07,720
who we are.
And what we do is the

1187
01:09:07,720 --> 01:09:10,880
Restoration.
God called a man in our day

1188
01:09:11,160 --> 01:09:14,960
restored priesthood keys,
brought back scriptures, and

1189
01:09:14,960 --> 01:09:17,920
gave him the gift of prophecy.
This is one of the fruits of the

1190
01:09:17,920 --> 01:09:20,560
Restoration.
Absolutely.

1191
01:09:20,880 --> 01:09:25,760
And I I agree with you that that
Mormons of all stripes.

1192
01:09:25,800 --> 01:09:29,279
I don't care where you're at.
I don't think we can put too

1193
01:09:29,279 --> 01:09:32,960
much emphasis on Joseph Smith's
prophetic calling.

1194
01:09:34,640 --> 01:09:37,800
It's on that work.
He is he is the wellspring.

1195
01:09:37,800 --> 01:09:43,240
He is the the dispensation head
and it it everything we have is

1196
01:09:43,240 --> 01:09:49,240
Mormons cascades from that font
that is Joseph Smith look.

1197
01:09:50,520 --> 01:09:56,280
As a 13 year old boy, when when
my dad passes, there was a a

1198
01:09:56,280 --> 01:10:01,640
minister from a a a church, a
well meaning man, I'm sure a

1199
01:10:01,640 --> 01:10:04,600
good guy.
He couldn't give me the answers

1200
01:10:04,600 --> 01:10:07,960
about where my dad went, but who
could?

1201
01:10:08,560 --> 01:10:10,680
Joseph could.
Oh boy.

1202
01:10:11,200 --> 01:10:17,440
And so when when the king fall
fall at discourse to the

1203
01:10:17,520 --> 01:10:21,720
discourses, semen, Bradson's
grave, you know just the whole

1204
01:10:21,720 --> 01:10:24,000
thing.
The answers are here and this is

1205
01:10:24,040 --> 01:10:26,440
Jesus Christ Church and we can't
lose sight of that.

1206
01:10:27,960 --> 01:10:30,800
But a lot of people believe in
Jesus that are clueless to the

1207
01:10:30,800 --> 01:10:35,240
prophetic calling and the gifts
that God gave to mankind.

1208
01:10:35,520 --> 01:10:41,040
And in our day as the scripture
saved to roll that that that you

1209
01:10:41,040 --> 01:10:44,520
know the the hand without the OR
the rock without the hands and

1210
01:10:44,520 --> 01:10:48,160
the the the scripture, I
followed the restoration of our

1211
01:10:48,160 --> 01:10:53,000
day And that's what makes
Mormonism so impactful and so

1212
01:10:53,000 --> 01:10:55,480
important that we've got to pull
that message there bring that

1213
01:10:55,480 --> 01:10:58,880
message out and and and bring it
out to the world.

1214
01:10:59,280 --> 01:11:01,720
Yeah, absolutely.
As you were writing and

1215
01:11:01,720 --> 01:11:04,320
compiling this book, I I got a
few questions for you.

1216
01:11:04,320 --> 01:11:09,960
First, you see in in Joseph,
'cause you, you said you kind of

1217
01:11:09,960 --> 01:11:12,200
broke it up by time, right?
By era.

1218
01:11:12,920 --> 01:11:18,240
Do you see?
Like more more prophecies being

1219
01:11:18,240 --> 01:11:21,400
made the further along he gets
in his prophetic ministry.

1220
01:11:21,400 --> 01:11:23,800
Yeah, I I think so.
And the reason is I think at the

1221
01:11:23,800 --> 01:11:29,200
beginning he was so busy
bringing, well, he it it again

1222
01:11:29,200 --> 01:11:30,720
we we're talking definition
here.

1223
01:11:31,000 --> 01:11:33,920
At the beginning he was bringing
forth prophecy for sure because

1224
01:11:33,920 --> 01:11:37,840
but it was the Book of Mormon
and again I classify that as the

1225
01:11:37,840 --> 01:11:40,920
prophecies of Mironi and the
Mormon and Alma.

1226
01:11:41,120 --> 01:11:46,400
So he's producing hundreds of
pages of revealed word, OK And

1227
01:11:46,400 --> 01:11:50,320
then comes the the, the
revelations we find in the

1228
01:11:50,320 --> 01:11:53,160
Doctrine and Covenants.
They were printed in the time

1229
01:11:53,160 --> 01:11:56,400
and seasons and compiled in
different arrangements, the book

1230
01:11:56,400 --> 01:11:58,160
of commandments and things like
that.

1231
01:11:58,600 --> 01:12:00,400
So these are flowing from the
Lord.

1232
01:12:00,920 --> 01:12:03,960
And then when the foundation of
the Scriptures and the Joseph

1233
01:12:03,960 --> 01:12:07,680
translation of the Bible and
things like this or then I think

1234
01:12:07,680 --> 01:12:10,960
we see a little bit more free
time where he's giving

1235
01:12:10,960 --> 01:12:13,240
prophecies, especially in the
Nabuk period.

1236
01:12:13,800 --> 01:12:16,360
I mean there's one of my
favorites, gosh, Dave, I didn't

1237
01:12:16,360 --> 01:12:18,640
even get to was they were
settling.

1238
01:12:18,640 --> 01:12:23,360
And again, where I study mostly
Hancock County history 1838 to

1239
01:12:23,360 --> 01:12:27,200
1846, that's really kind of
where I spent the last decade of

1240
01:12:27,200 --> 01:12:29,920
my life.
You got to remember that this is

1241
01:12:29,920 --> 01:12:33,000
on the river.
There's the Des Moines Rapids.

1242
01:12:33,200 --> 01:12:37,600
It's not like it is today.
There's a little few houses

1243
01:12:37,600 --> 01:12:43,480
called Hotchkiss by Nauvoo in a
little area called Commerce, And

1244
01:12:43,560 --> 01:12:51,520
Joseph and Hiram have just been
LED let to escape from liberty.

1245
01:12:51,520 --> 01:12:53,760
And they make it.
So where the Saints are in

1246
01:12:53,760 --> 01:12:57,400
Quincy and they come up to
Hotchkiss and there's a Mr.

1247
01:12:57,400 --> 01:13:00,440
White.
And this is in the spring of

1248
01:13:00,880 --> 01:13:07,800
1839, and he has some land for
sale and he wants $500 down.

1249
01:13:07,800 --> 01:13:09,840
And the Saints are basically
penniless.

1250
01:13:09,840 --> 01:13:13,320
Right, Right.
And Joseph Co comes up and

1251
01:13:13,320 --> 01:13:15,960
spends the night and he tells
the people around and the

1252
01:13:15,960 --> 01:13:19,760
brother and he says go and tell
Mister White that we will buy

1253
01:13:19,760 --> 01:13:22,040
his land and we will give him
his money down.

1254
01:13:22,240 --> 01:13:25,320
They looked at him like, what
are you, you know, what are you

1255
01:13:25,320 --> 01:13:26,320
talking about?
We don't have any money.

1256
01:13:26,320 --> 01:13:30,000
He says just go do it.
And he they go and and make the

1257
01:13:30,000 --> 01:13:32,240
arrangements.
And the next day, Joseph goes

1258
01:13:32,240 --> 01:13:34,840
over to Mr. White's house, goes
inside.

1259
01:13:34,840 --> 01:13:39,560
They pull up a table and they
have a contract, and it's $500

1260
01:13:39,560 --> 01:13:42,800
down.
Mr. White signs it, pushes the

1261
01:13:42,800 --> 01:13:45,920
paper over to Joseph.
Joseph signs it.

1262
01:13:45,920 --> 01:13:50,440
He pushes the chair back.
He puts his head down like he's

1263
01:13:50,440 --> 01:13:53,840
saying a prayer.
And just then a wagon pulls up

1264
01:13:53,840 --> 01:13:57,280
outside.
A man comes, gets steps down,

1265
01:13:57,280 --> 01:13:59,560
walks up to the door, knocks on
the door and says I'm looking

1266
01:13:59,560 --> 01:14:02,440
for Joseph Smith.
And they said, oh, he's right

1267
01:14:02,440 --> 01:14:03,800
here.
And Joseph says, what can I help

1268
01:14:03,800 --> 01:14:05,880
you with?
And he says, I want to buy some

1269
01:14:05,880 --> 01:14:08,800
land from you, but I don't have
time to look at it today.

1270
01:14:09,280 --> 01:14:13,480
I have some down payment money.
I will come back and talk to you

1271
01:14:13,480 --> 01:14:15,400
tomorrow.
Here's $500.

1272
01:14:16,040 --> 01:14:19,400
Wow.
Joseph turns around and gives it

1273
01:14:19,400 --> 01:14:22,000
to Mr. White, he later says to
his brother.

1274
01:14:22,000 --> 01:14:24,520
And he says, you put your faith
in money.

1275
01:14:24,520 --> 01:14:31,000
I put my faith in God.
Yeah, that is recorded history.

1276
01:14:32,360 --> 01:14:35,320
Joseph Smith had no idea who
this guy was, had no idea he was

1277
01:14:35,320 --> 01:14:37,640
coming, had no idea that $500 is
coming.

1278
01:14:38,040 --> 01:14:41,480
He felt prompted and inspired to
sign that document in within

1279
01:14:41,960 --> 01:14:44,560
seconds.
Within, you know, 10s of

1280
01:14:44,560 --> 01:14:47,080
seconds, the money showed up out
of nowhere.

1281
01:14:47,600 --> 01:14:52,920
Right, $500 to close the deal.
You know, so these types of

1282
01:14:52,920 --> 01:14:54,720
events happen more and more, I
think.

1283
01:14:54,880 --> 01:14:57,560
I mean, they happen throughout
Joseph's life, but I think we

1284
01:14:57,560 --> 01:15:01,280
have more once the foundation of
the gospel was established.

1285
01:15:01,280 --> 01:15:04,280
Man he's he's teaching people
about temple ordinance of

1286
01:15:04,280 --> 01:15:07,880
baptisms for the dead.
The whole purpose of pre earth

1287
01:15:07,880 --> 01:15:13,560
life, the post earth life in
more detail of course you know

1288
01:15:13,560 --> 01:15:15,440
it.
It really started early but he

1289
01:15:15,440 --> 01:15:18,960
just added to it.
I mean my favorite is like at

1290
01:15:18,960 --> 01:15:22,000
the John Johnson home in Hiram.
Have you been down there, South

1291
01:15:22,000 --> 01:15:25,720
of Kirtland, about 20 miles
where the visions were given,

1292
01:15:25,720 --> 01:15:29,480
which we called Dr., Feminist 7,
Section 76.

1293
01:15:30,520 --> 01:15:32,320
How prophetic is that?
Now?

1294
01:15:32,320 --> 01:15:34,240
That's in the Doctor Covenant,
so I don't have it.

1295
01:15:34,240 --> 01:15:36,920
In my book.
You talk about a prophetic gift

1296
01:15:37,120 --> 01:15:39,880
where he reveals the three
degrees of glory and all these

1297
01:15:39,880 --> 01:15:41,560
different things that are
happening, and he sees his

1298
01:15:41,560 --> 01:15:43,640
brother Alvin, who was not
baptized.

1299
01:15:44,200 --> 01:15:46,400
And in fact, you talked about
your dad dying.

1300
01:15:46,480 --> 01:15:49,320
You know, the story of Alvin
Smith and Palmyra dying and the

1301
01:15:49,320 --> 01:15:51,440
minister.
The church hadn't been restored,

1302
01:15:51,760 --> 01:15:53,800
dismissed that Mormonism was
around.

1303
01:15:53,800 --> 01:15:57,040
The teachings of the doctrines
of salvation weren't there and

1304
01:15:57,040 --> 01:16:01,920
the ministers asked if Alvin had
been baptized and the Smith

1305
01:16:01,920 --> 01:16:06,120
family said no.
And the minister said, I'm

1306
01:16:06,120 --> 01:16:09,240
sorry, Alvin is not going to go
to heaven because he hadn't been

1307
01:16:09,240 --> 01:16:11,800
baptized.
He had destroyed The Smiths.

1308
01:16:11,800 --> 01:16:15,800
And then in 1833 at the Johns
Onsen farm upstairs in that

1309
01:16:15,800 --> 01:16:19,120
bedroom the elders are meeting
in city region and and and

1310
01:16:19,120 --> 01:16:21,960
Joseph Smith see this vision and
he sees Alvin in the special

1311
01:16:21,960 --> 01:16:28,960
Kingdom and he says how can that
be And the doctrines, the word

1312
01:16:28,960 --> 01:16:31,240
for the dead and all these
things are are brought forth.

1313
01:16:33,840 --> 01:16:37,120
You just don't have an you know
a a a guy with a three-year

1314
01:16:37,120 --> 01:16:40,640
education on farm boy in in
backwoods New York in the early

1315
01:16:40,640 --> 01:16:45,160
1820s with no Internet no you
know they're working 1214 hours

1316
01:16:45,160 --> 01:16:47,880
a day just to eat.
He doesn't have all this time to

1317
01:16:47,880 --> 01:16:50,400
sit around and philosophize and
get around people.

1318
01:16:50,400 --> 01:16:54,400
He's he.
This is just just absolutely

1319
01:16:55,040 --> 01:16:57,320
remarkable.
So I hope, I hope that answers

1320
01:16:57,320 --> 01:16:59,160
your question.
It was all along.

1321
01:16:59,160 --> 01:17:01,920
But I think at first it started
with the revelation of the

1322
01:17:01,920 --> 01:17:03,600
scriptures and the setting up of
the Church.

1323
01:17:03,960 --> 01:17:07,000
And then we have some really
cool stuff happened in the

1324
01:17:07,000 --> 01:17:09,400
novel, period.
Just prophecy after prophecy

1325
01:17:09,400 --> 01:17:12,600
after prophecy that are outside
the scriptures and outside the

1326
01:17:12,600 --> 01:17:15,840
Doctrine Covenants.
As as you were writing this and

1327
01:17:15,840 --> 01:17:20,480
compiling this, what was the
thing that that that kind of

1328
01:17:20,480 --> 01:17:22,880
shocked you or maybe something
that you weren't prepared to

1329
01:17:22,880 --> 01:17:28,200
see?
Oh gosh you know I I think this

1330
01:17:28,200 --> 01:17:32,920
that we what shocked me was that
we don't as a people and as as

1331
01:17:33,720 --> 01:17:36,840
as believers that God called us
meant to be a prophet.

1332
01:17:37,200 --> 01:17:39,680
That we don't know more about.
Some of these things this

1333
01:17:39,680 --> 01:17:44,200
prophecy about the Kirtland
Safety Society notes being worth

1334
01:17:44,200 --> 01:17:46,400
their weight in gold happened in
10 years.

1335
01:17:47,160 --> 01:17:51,400
I've been to Kirtland probably
1015 times and never heard that.

1336
01:17:52,040 --> 01:17:55,880
But yet it's right here, right?
There's so many things.

1337
01:17:55,880 --> 01:17:58,760
And again, this isn't the
foundation of anybody's

1338
01:17:58,760 --> 01:18:05,480
testimony, but it's a it's it
should be reassurance that

1339
01:18:05,480 --> 01:18:08,000
Joseph had a prophetic gift,
that he was called by God.

1340
01:18:08,320 --> 01:18:11,280
Absolutely could do his work.
Just a reassurance.

1341
01:18:11,280 --> 01:18:14,320
Another witness maybe?
Well, let me ask you this.

1342
01:18:14,320 --> 01:18:16,400
What?
Why is it you think that that we

1343
01:18:16,400 --> 01:18:22,840
as Mormons of every stripe don't
spend the time to to?

1344
01:18:23,560 --> 01:18:26,160
Illustrate Joseph's prophetic
calling like this.

1345
01:18:26,560 --> 01:18:29,760
Again, as you were saying, it
shouldn't be the foundation of

1346
01:18:29,760 --> 01:18:33,640
your testimony, but it could
serve as as kind of a a shield,

1347
01:18:34,040 --> 01:18:35,920
right?
What do you think?

1348
01:18:35,920 --> 01:18:38,440
It's lack of access to records?
Do you?

1349
01:18:38,480 --> 01:18:40,720
Do you think?
No, that's out there.

1350
01:18:41,280 --> 01:18:44,960
I mean Dwayne Crowther's wrote a
phenomenal book listing 400

1351
01:18:45,440 --> 01:18:51,080
prophecies.
I I'm we're we're dealing in the

1352
01:18:51,080 --> 01:18:57,040
realm of speculation here and I
really don't wanna go down that

1353
01:18:57,040 --> 01:19:01,280
way especially where I, the
position I currently serve in in

1354
01:19:01,280 --> 01:19:04,120
my ward and things I don't I
don't wanna be misconstrued.

1355
01:19:05,120 --> 01:19:10,240
But I I will tell you that the
foundations of of exaltation is

1356
01:19:10,480 --> 01:19:14,760
is you know not whether Joseph
had this prophecy or not.

1357
01:19:14,760 --> 01:19:18,480
It's faith in Jesus Christ and
repentance and baptism and

1358
01:19:18,480 --> 01:19:21,400
things like that.
And we put a rightful focus on

1359
01:19:21,400 --> 01:19:23,920
that.
And I think sometimes just be

1360
01:19:24,080 --> 01:19:25,520
just kind of off the record
here.

1361
01:19:25,520 --> 01:19:30,160
My personal opinion is that
we're busy, right?

1362
01:19:30,160 --> 01:19:34,200
And a typical Mormon family is
large.

1363
01:19:34,680 --> 01:19:36,760
Yep.
And it takes a lot of time and

1364
01:19:36,760 --> 01:19:38,480
money and effort to raise a
family.

1365
01:19:38,800 --> 01:19:45,360
And we're teaching good gospel
principles, you know, principles

1366
01:19:45,360 --> 01:19:49,720
of faith, repentance, baptism,
these things and following the

1367
01:19:49,720 --> 01:19:55,600
commandments of God.
And it's just so you know, the

1368
01:19:55,600 --> 01:19:59,640
serious student probably has
heard everything we talked

1369
01:19:59,640 --> 01:20:02,720
about, OK, this is, this
shouldn't be new to somebody who

1370
01:20:02,720 --> 01:20:05,760
is really taking the time to
study the gospel, right?

1371
01:20:06,280 --> 01:20:09,560
But there's a lot of
distractions and and some people

1372
01:20:09,600 --> 01:20:13,200
just frankly don't study as much
and when they do.

1373
01:20:13,520 --> 01:20:15,800
They're rightfully going to the
scriptures first.

1374
01:20:17,200 --> 01:20:20,000
OK, really?
We we are told to read the

1375
01:20:20,000 --> 01:20:23,560
scriptures every day.
We're not told to read church

1376
01:20:23,560 --> 01:20:26,240
history every day or whatever.
You know what I'm saying?

1377
01:20:27,760 --> 01:20:31,080
So I think the emphasis is
rightly on the principles of the

1378
01:20:31,080 --> 01:20:36,200
gospel.
But there's some good stuff here

1379
01:20:36,760 --> 01:20:40,760
and it's mainstream Mormonism.
So that's just some speculation.

1380
01:20:40,760 --> 01:20:43,400
I don't want to speak for the
brother and of why the emphasis

1381
01:20:43,400 --> 01:20:46,480
is there that that people can
spend time.

1382
01:20:46,520 --> 01:20:49,720
We have plenty of time to golf.
We have plenty of time to play

1383
01:20:49,720 --> 01:20:52,160
pickleball.
We have plenty of time to to

1384
01:20:52,160 --> 01:20:56,440
binge watch TV shows and do all
this.

1385
01:20:56,440 --> 01:21:00,160
I I served with steak present
and I know that you're you know

1386
01:21:00,160 --> 01:21:03,600
you're a fundamentalist.
But he he told me one time, he

1387
01:21:03,600 --> 01:21:06,600
says If then he was just talking
Generally says.

1388
01:21:06,600 --> 01:21:09,400
I feel that if I have time to
golf, I have time to go to the

1389
01:21:09,400 --> 01:21:12,680
temple.
Yeah, and you could say that

1390
01:21:12,680 --> 01:21:16,600
about studying church history,
the prophecies, or other aspects

1391
01:21:16,640 --> 01:21:19,880
of the gospel.
Other history gospel, yeah.

1392
01:21:20,040 --> 01:21:22,800
But we don't have many people go
on dates every week with their

1393
01:21:22,800 --> 01:21:25,360
wives and go to the movies, but
they don't have time to do.

1394
01:21:26,120 --> 01:21:28,000
Yeah, read some good stuff, I
mean.

1395
01:21:28,360 --> 01:21:32,920
You know, I I remember.
I'm, I'm kind of, I'm not going

1396
01:21:32,920 --> 01:21:36,440
to lie, I'm kind of a meathead.
So I naturally like to read

1397
01:21:36,440 --> 01:21:41,880
about history.
And I I was in junior high when

1398
01:21:42,000 --> 01:21:47,440
the first Gulf War happened and
I remember, I remember it

1399
01:21:47,440 --> 01:21:49,920
happening, but I didn't have a
lot of the context.

1400
01:21:50,040 --> 01:21:54,000
So I I I remember I read a book
about this and Norman

1401
01:21:54,000 --> 01:21:57,320
Schwarzkopf said something that
was really profound.

1402
01:21:57,880 --> 01:22:00,960
And in some, not some ways, in a
lot of ways, I think it can

1403
01:22:01,880 --> 01:22:05,880
apply to our our spiritual eyes.
When he was asked what the

1404
01:22:05,880 --> 01:22:10,760
strategy was, he said, well, the
first thing we need to do is cut

1405
01:22:10,760 --> 01:22:13,360
the head of the snake off and
then kill the body.

1406
01:22:13,680 --> 01:22:17,240
And someone said, well, can that
It's a little graphic, but could

1407
01:22:17,240 --> 01:22:18,480
you expound on that a little
bit?

1408
01:22:18,480 --> 01:22:21,040
And he said, yeah, we want to
cut off communications first.

1409
01:22:21,440 --> 01:22:24,520
If we can cut off
communications, we can we can

1410
01:22:24,520 --> 01:22:27,920
finish off the body.
Sometimes I think as Mormons and

1411
01:22:27,920 --> 01:22:30,960
and I've seen cross spectrum
doesn't matter, you know which

1412
01:22:30,960 --> 01:22:34,400
branch you're in, so to speak.
We're busy just for the reasons

1413
01:22:34,400 --> 01:22:36,440
you said we got.
We typically have larger

1414
01:22:36,440 --> 01:22:39,040
families.
You know, you're you're busting

1415
01:22:39,040 --> 01:22:40,800
your rear to put food on the
table.

1416
01:22:41,960 --> 01:22:45,320
You know, mom's toting the kids
to whatever practice is going on

1417
01:22:45,840 --> 01:22:47,680
and none of those things are bad
things.

1418
01:22:48,040 --> 01:22:50,960
But we haven't invested the kind
of time that I feel like we need

1419
01:22:50,960 --> 01:22:56,600
to, to give our kids that extra.
Protection and that extra

1420
01:22:58,120 --> 01:23:01,200
reinforcement against some of
the attacks that are coming out

1421
01:23:01,200 --> 01:23:04,200
now.
And with with as busy as we are,

1422
01:23:04,200 --> 01:23:08,720
I feel like the adversary's done
a really good job in not only

1423
01:23:08,720 --> 01:23:11,520
making sure that we're not
receiving that constant

1424
01:23:11,520 --> 01:23:15,760
communication we need through
both prayer and study, but also

1425
01:23:15,760 --> 01:23:19,600
he's disguised it in such a way
that that it's not bad things,

1426
01:23:19,680 --> 01:23:20,920
right?
It's just things.

1427
01:23:21,280 --> 01:23:25,080
That we get in the way trying to
live, quote a wise I think it

1428
01:23:25,080 --> 01:23:27,680
goes in a different direction
too.

1429
01:23:27,960 --> 01:23:32,680
We know in the scriptures in the
last days that the prophecies

1430
01:23:32,680 --> 01:23:35,680
are that men's heart hearts will
fail them or what does that

1431
01:23:35,680 --> 01:23:37,240
mean?
And we also read in the

1432
01:23:37,240 --> 01:23:39,720
scriptures.
But in the last days there will

1433
01:23:39,720 --> 01:23:42,360
be some who lie in wait to
deceive.

1434
01:23:42,680 --> 01:23:47,600
Yeah, there are people who are
making a living, making a

1435
01:23:47,600 --> 01:23:50,200
fortune off of bashing the
church.

1436
01:23:50,880 --> 01:23:54,520
And many times I have seen
things that are historically

1437
01:23:54,520 --> 01:23:58,520
inaccurate or wrongly portrayed
or proof.

1438
01:23:58,520 --> 01:24:02,000
Texting or what what we would
call taking things, taking out

1439
01:24:02,000 --> 01:24:07,640
of context, things shaded.
Things not told properly by the

1440
01:24:07,640 --> 01:24:09,320
enemies of the church that are
shaking.

1441
01:24:09,320 --> 01:24:12,480
People's testimonies that are
maybe weak to begin with.

1442
01:24:13,200 --> 01:24:17,960
Attacks on Joseph Smith as we
talked about attacks on Brigham

1443
01:24:17,960 --> 01:24:21,480
Young.
Yeah, it, you know, attacks on

1444
01:24:21,480 --> 01:24:25,880
our our mutually shared history.
And some are completely

1445
01:24:25,880 --> 01:24:28,920
dishonest.
Absolutely, absolutely.

1446
01:24:28,920 --> 01:24:31,520
Well said.
No, that's that's correct.

1447
01:24:31,920 --> 01:24:33,680
That kind of torques me off
personally.

1448
01:24:33,680 --> 01:24:36,200
Makes me want to write more
books and go on more podcasts

1449
01:24:36,440 --> 01:24:44,640
because because I when people
are lying in wait to deceive and

1450
01:24:44,640 --> 01:24:51,040
intentionally saying wrong
things on purpose or misquoting

1451
01:24:52,960 --> 01:24:55,800
or taking I I think.
Yeah, yeah.

1452
01:24:56,720 --> 01:24:58,760
Yeah.
No, I I so more.

1453
01:24:59,840 --> 01:25:05,400
And that's what we've got to
fortify, fortify.

1454
01:25:05,400 --> 01:25:08,400
When when I have students in our
home for family home meetings or

1455
01:25:08,400 --> 01:25:10,960
something, they're always shown
a great church video or

1456
01:25:10,960 --> 01:25:14,240
something about the his early
history of the church to try to

1457
01:25:14,240 --> 01:25:18,800
fortify them with with some
truth in case they come across

1458
01:25:18,800 --> 01:25:22,880
some wild claim on the Internet.
Well, thank you, Dave.

1459
01:25:23,400 --> 01:25:25,200
I think I've covered everything
in my book.

1460
01:25:25,200 --> 01:25:27,400
Is there anything you want to
talk about further?

1461
01:25:27,840 --> 01:25:29,840
I I don't think I.
Think you covered it pretty

1462
01:25:29,840 --> 01:25:32,560
well.
I enjoyed you coming on I Tell

1463
01:25:32,560 --> 01:25:34,880
This to all my guests once
you've been on once you got a

1464
01:25:34,880 --> 01:25:36,920
standing invitation.
So if you do write one of those

1465
01:25:36,920 --> 01:25:38,720
books, let me know.
We'll get you back on.

1466
01:25:39,720 --> 01:25:41,320
All right.
I appreciate it.

1467
01:25:41,640 --> 01:25:42,920
All right.
Bye everybody.

1468
01:26:14,000 --> 01:26:16,680
You're listening to the Mormon
Renegade podcast.