Episide #166: An Examination Of The Nemenhah Record Part 1 W/Justin Francom

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Mormon theology is full of
amazing promises.

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Some of those promises have to
do with new scripture coming

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forward in the last days.
Now, this is an exciting

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prospect.
Like many of you, I look forward

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to that time.
However, when one says that new

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scripture has come forth, we
must be very careful.

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We must make sure that that
purported new scripture

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harmonizes with the principles
of the existing Canon of

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scripture and other principles
that have been revealed through

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the Prophet Joseph Smith.
Today on this episode and next

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week as well, I have Justin
Frankamon to break down all six

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volumes of the Nemenha record.
We examine the book's views on

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family structure, priesthood,
communing with deity, political

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ideology, and the book's views
on Joseph Smith.

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Then compare all of that with
what's existing in the

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Restoration, found in the
scriptures, and through the

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Prophet Joseph Smith that much,
much more on this episode of the

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Mormon Renegade Podcast.
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You're listening to the Mormon
Renegade podcast.

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Justin, what's going on?
Hey, Dave, staying quiet.

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A lot out here these days just.
Cold weather, dude, I know it's

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like snowing.
Like I honestly was looking

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forward to like very little snow
and it's snowing now and very

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little deep cold, but it's been
deeply cold the last couple of

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days.
I have a theory which is I think

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the Canadians are trying to go
to war with us and they just

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went ahead and shipped all their
weather down here.

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I guess it makes sense.
It makes sense.

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It's all Australian.
I mean, Donald Trump's saying

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he's going to ask Canada again.
It's like, Oh yeah.

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Oh yeah, watch this.
Enjoy.

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Enjoy your weather, son.
Yep, no, absolutely, dude.

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I'll tell you what, this one,
like I when I first started this

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podcast, never did I ever think
we'd be breaking down other and

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I'm going to use quotes here,
quote scripture, right?

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I honestly thought I'll just
find a few cool things to talk

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about and we can go from there.
But dude, this one is you were

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telling me more and more about
it, the more and more

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problematic it became.
And so I'm really looking

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forward to breaking this down
because without getting too

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specific, there's some very
popular people today.

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They're, they're kind of
hitching their wagon to this, to

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the Nimmenha record, right?
And that's what we're talking

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about today is the Nimmenha
record.

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And I think it's a good litmus
test.

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I really do, right?
If someone's going to hang their

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hat on it, I feel like it
deserves to be explored and it

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deserves to, to have a, you
know, to have it looked at like,

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what was it?
J Reuben Clark said if it's

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true, it should stand up to
scrutiny, right?

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And if it's not true, then it
deserves to be exposed.

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And I think that's where we're
at here, right?

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We, we, we approach this from a
very balanced place, right?

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We just wanted to see what it
what the record said, and this

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is what we found.
Right, so I, I had never heard

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of this until more recently
where it's there's a lot of

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people talking about suddenly on
YouTube.

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There's a lot suddenly there's a
lot of interest on it.

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I guess it's been around for
quite a while.

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And I mean I've, I've seen
other, you know, this second

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book of commandments or
something or the there's stuff

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out there.
What is it?

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The sealed portion, things like
that, but.

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Right.
I had not heard of this one

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though.
And so all of a sudden I heard a

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lot of talk about it and I, I
got interested, to be honest, I

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was kind of curious to see what
it was.

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But before, I guess maybe before
going into it too far, I, I want

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to just clarify that I'm
actually a person of Native

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American descent myself.
And so I'm looking at this from,

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from a context of, of scripture
and, and religion.

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And I just want to make it clear
that I don't think I don't have

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any problem with necessary this
Native American culture and a

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Native American ritual and
practices.

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In fact, I being a descendant of
Native American, my grandfather

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was, you know, taken to these
Indian schools.

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You know, my, my great
grandmother was on that

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reservation, you know, a couple
generations up, but I'm a

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descendant of the chief.
And so I don't have any issue at

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all with the Native American
culture and traditions.

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Right.
What, what I, where I take issue

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with is are we recognizing these
as Native American traditions or

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are we basically kind of
commandeering them into a

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different religion?
And and that's more of my

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concern with with the stuff that
I've been seeing and especially

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with the Nemenhahr record is
it's not doing, I think maybe

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fair respect to the cultures
that were there by taking it and

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reinterpreting it what they had
left at least right as being

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something more Christian than it
really was at the time.

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I.
Think the Book of Mormon is is

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very clear on the subject that
because of, you know, the

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Nephite civilization was
destroyed, the Lamanites

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dwindled in unbelief and God
inspired lambdas to come over

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and the original pilgrims to
come over.

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God bless this American
experiment in the colonies.

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He's, he protected them through
the war and he, I, I don't think

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he'd necessarily commanded, but
he allowed the scattering of the

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original.
It may not be completely

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original because, you know, go
back to the Jaredites.

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Sure.
We're all descending Nevada.

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But either way, those people
were allowed to be scattered

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because they had fallen into a
darkness, right?

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And so one of the major points
of the restoration was to bring

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a restoration to my ancestors
and my people, not to prop their

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culture up as the Christian
standard, right?

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Right.
And so, so first of all, I'm,

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I'm coming from, I want, just
want to be clear, I'm coming

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from a place of.
I don't have necessarily an

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issue with these things in the
proper context.

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What I have an issue with is the
context they're being presented

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in.
Right.

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And then secondly, I'll be
honest, I'm a little bit

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uncomfortable with the idea of
deconstructing something that's

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basically some people's faith.
And I think there are people

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that probably believe in this
record As for them as scripture.

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And so, so with that, I'm going
to do my very best.

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I am, I'm obviously very biased
because I, I believe in the

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restoration.
However, I want to approach this

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more from a, from a perspective
of what, what do they believe?

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And the question is, is what
they believe compatible with

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what we believe?
Because I've gone through this

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whole record very in depthly and
I can't agree to this, right?

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As a Mormon who believes in
Joseph Smith and what Joseph

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Smith taught is some who
believes in the Book of Mormon.

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What it teaches I believe in the
New Testament and what it

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teaches the New Testament, Old
Testament, all of these things

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pro a great price because of my
belief in those things.

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I can't agree with the Nemenha
record as scripture, but I can

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respect that some people can
choose to believe that.

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And I think that's a very fair
thing to say, especially from

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what I understand, the Nemenha,
the religion built around this,

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this record.
You know, I, I explored their

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website, their bylaws, just
everything they have to say.

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There's nothing there about the
Book of Mormon or Joseph Smith.

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They don't talk about it at all.
So I'm maybe it they consider it

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Canon, but but they certainly
aren't preaching Book of Mormon.

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They're not preaching New
Testament.

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They're only preaching Nemenha
record.

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Right.
And so I think I think it's fair

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to look at this is, this is like
a different religion.

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And I want to just compare and
contrast because I've been

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hearing a lot of people saying
that this is, you know, this is

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Mormonism 2 point O, this is an
addition.

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This is, this is something that
expands Mormonism, right?

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And my research has showed that
that's just not the case.

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And I want people to be aware of
that, that that's not the case.

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If you choose to believe this,
this, that's OK, That's that's

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your right.
But to claim that this is

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something you can add to your
existing belief as as a Mormon,

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I don't think that's honest.
No.

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And and look, I like the
approach here too, right?

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We're not, we're not sitting
here trying to say, you know,

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because we're going to, we're
going to leave out the guys who

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who translated this.
We are also going to, you know,

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focus on what's in the book
itself and compare and contrast

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on how that fits with the book.
You know, what we know through

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the restoration as given to the
Prophet Joseph Smith, right?

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And I don't think that's out of
bounds to say, OK, how does this

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fit?
Right?

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Joseph told us, you know, if if
anyone comes to you with a

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gospel different than what I
preach, you can set it aside as

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an imposter, right?
And so if, if that's the litmus

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test, I think that that deserves
to be to be looked at and

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scrutinized a little bit, right,
to see if it stands up to that.

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And if it doesn't, then
whatever.

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And those are my words.
But if I'm understanding you

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correctly, your thought is, is
that you're just going to deal

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with the merits of the text as
it stands.

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Is that correct?
And compared to the what's

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already been revealed to the
restoration?

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Right.
And your audience, you know,

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they can, they can judge what
they're comfortable with, with

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what they believe is, you know,
this or that the other.

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Yep.
The the other thing I would say

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is like, look, we're Mormons
here, right?

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We dig on you scripture.
That was one of the promises

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that someday it's going to come
forward, right?

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So as Mormons, we want this,
right?

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I am not so dogmatic and stuck
in the 19, I mean, in the 1800s

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that I'm not willing to look
forward to those days that

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Joseph prophesied about when
everybody else will bring their

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records, right.
But those records they have the,

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the doctrine has to complement
one another and it has to work

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well with one another, otherwise
there's conflict.

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So, so I thought, OK, I think
we're on the same page.

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I got, I think I got where you
were going there.

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All right.
Well, that's right.

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Disclaimer.
Disclaimer done.

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Yep, disclaimer is done.
You've all been warned.

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Here we go.
All right, Justin, take her

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away.
Well, man.

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Where do you want to go first?
There's a lot of places we can

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go with this.
Let's start with the doctrine,

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right?
I feel like that's the most

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important place to start, right?
Right, All right, so there are

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quite a few very interesting
ideas being presented here, and

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so let's just hit up a few of
them.

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I'm I'm seeing if I can share my
screen with you, I'm going to do

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my best.
I might kind of skip over stuff.

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I I've got some of these things
though basically written out so

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people can read along.
If that works.

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Here we go.
Are we up?

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You're sharing screen.
All right, so this these first

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things I want to share have to
do with this kind of idea of, I

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don't know exactly what to call
it, but what came to my mind was

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sort of a, a femme supremacism.
OK.

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So.
From what I understand, you

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know, the patriarchy is an abuse
of, of masculine, masculine

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being in power, putting itself
above the feminine, right?

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And one way, right?
I'm trying to from a liberal

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perspective, right, Right.
Yep.

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And then a feminist is somebody
who's trying to balance that out

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supposedly, right?
They want equal rights.

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They want to level the playing
field here.

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This seems to go to a different
degree though, and the reason I

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was calling it femme supremacism
because it seems to put forth

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00:13:30,960 --> 00:13:35,120
this doctrine, the idea that
that the woman is superior to

226
00:13:35,120 --> 00:13:39,600
the man.
And so I kind of want to go over

227
00:13:39,600 --> 00:13:45,720
that first.
So this is OK from Volume 1.

228
00:13:47,040 --> 00:13:49,320
All right, So in there.
So maybe actually, you know what

229
00:13:49,320 --> 00:13:51,120
might make sense.
First, a brief overview of the

230
00:13:51,120 --> 00:13:52,960
history.
Yeah, let's do that.

231
00:13:52,960 --> 00:13:56,320
Let's talk about what, what,
what it is, what it purports to

232
00:13:56,320 --> 00:13:59,120
be, and.
We'll come back to that in a

233
00:13:59,120 --> 00:14:00,480
second.
And then we'll come back to the

234
00:14:00,480 --> 00:14:02,240
doctrine.
Right.

235
00:14:02,360 --> 00:14:07,600
So the record purports to be a
history of a people called the

236
00:14:07,600 --> 00:14:13,200
Nemenha and the Nemenha are a
group that split off from the

237
00:14:13,200 --> 00:14:17,200
Nephites and the Lamenites.
And it equal number of of

238
00:14:17,200 --> 00:14:21,280
Nephites and Lamenites decided
they're done with the land

239
00:14:21,280 --> 00:14:27,120
southward and they get a boat
with this guy Hagoth and they

240
00:14:27,120 --> 00:14:30,560
and they travel up north and
they establish a new basically a

241
00:14:30,560 --> 00:14:34,520
new civilization to get started.
Most of the history takes

242
00:14:34,520 --> 00:14:40,080
centers around the city, Man,
what is it called?

243
00:14:40,080 --> 00:14:44,800
Mentana, which is located, you
know, somewhere in Utah

244
00:14:44,880 --> 00:14:50,520
geographically.
And then the rest of but then a

245
00:14:50,560 --> 00:14:52,920
little bit of the story kind of
takes place up near the Great

246
00:14:52,920 --> 00:14:56,920
Lakes areas where there's a town
named after Cory Anton.

247
00:14:56,920 --> 00:15:01,080
And and then at the end, towards
the end, most of the story

248
00:15:01,080 --> 00:15:06,680
focuses around a group that fled
the destruction of Mentana to

249
00:15:06,680 --> 00:15:08,360
basically modern day Missouri.
OK.

250
00:15:09,800 --> 00:15:13,960
And so the people leave the
Nephites and they come up with

251
00:15:13,960 --> 00:15:17,480
their own different name, even
though technically they're still

252
00:15:17,480 --> 00:15:20,160
descendants of of Lehigh.
Right.

253
00:15:20,680 --> 00:15:26,040
And so that's some that's maybe
a really, really basic overview

254
00:15:26,040 --> 00:15:28,440
of of the history.
And I don't know how many more

255
00:15:28,440 --> 00:15:30,680
volumes there might be.
I originally I thought there was

256
00:15:30,680 --> 00:15:34,560
only three and then I found out
there was actually three more.

257
00:15:34,840 --> 00:15:39,480
And the last volume kind of
doesn't necessarily end things

258
00:15:39,480 --> 00:15:42,400
with Columbus showing up.
So there's, there's room for an

259
00:15:42,400 --> 00:15:47,760
expanding record here, which
makes it a little bit

260
00:15:47,760 --> 00:15:49,920
challenging, especially after I
went for the first, I went

261
00:15:49,920 --> 00:15:52,400
through the 1st 3 was analyzing
the darkness when I had some

262
00:15:52,400 --> 00:15:55,720
ideas on it.
And and then when I was

263
00:15:55,720 --> 00:15:57,400
researching, when I found out
there was more and I'm

264
00:15:57,400 --> 00:16:00,040
researching the rest of it's
like, oh, OK, well, some of

265
00:16:00,040 --> 00:16:04,680
those things kind of got, so to
speak, corrected or addressed.

266
00:16:04,960 --> 00:16:09,040
And so I'm going with the record
as a whole as it stands now up

267
00:16:09,040 --> 00:16:11,760
to volume 6 and maybe there's
more volumes out there that I'm

268
00:16:11,760 --> 00:16:14,920
not aware of.
And if so, I I didn't know.

269
00:16:15,480 --> 00:16:20,280
Right, right.
But basically this is based off

270
00:16:20,280 --> 00:16:22,680
of off of that.
And so one of the very first

271
00:16:22,680 --> 00:16:25,000
things that happens when they
get out there though, is they

272
00:16:25,000 --> 00:16:28,240
decide they're going to do a
different type of society than

273
00:16:28,240 --> 00:16:30,240
the Nephites did.
They have a better way.

274
00:16:31,760 --> 00:16:35,360
And so one of them has to do
with basically their political

275
00:16:35,360 --> 00:16:38,160
system here.
So this is from one of their

276
00:16:38,160 --> 00:16:42,680
early founders was this sheet to
go ha.

277
00:16:42,800 --> 00:16:46,280
And he was somebody who was like
fighting with Moroni supposedly,

278
00:16:47,520 --> 00:16:50,560
but he decides to go up north
and you know, they're

279
00:16:50,560 --> 00:16:53,760
establishing their civilization
and you know, this is basically

280
00:16:53,760 --> 00:16:56,560
how it goes.
So and I I'm going to butcher

281
00:16:56,560 --> 00:16:58,520
these pronunciations.
There's a pronunciation guide

282
00:16:58,520 --> 00:17:00,840
and everything but.
Hey, Kai, I want to make sure

283
00:17:00,840 --> 00:17:03,040
that that we get the context
right here.

284
00:17:03,400 --> 00:17:07,040
Is this Moroni like the last
Moroni or is this like Chief

285
00:17:07,440 --> 00:17:12,079
Captain Moroni?
No, the Captain Meroni who led

286
00:17:12,079 --> 00:17:14,240
the knee fight armies.
OK, cool.

287
00:17:14,720 --> 00:17:17,960
And so, so he, when you say he's
fighting with him, he, you mean

288
00:17:17,960 --> 00:17:20,680
like he's fighting beside him?
Actually, you know what?

289
00:17:20,680 --> 00:17:22,680
I can't remember.
He might have been one of the

290
00:17:22,680 --> 00:17:25,800
Lamanites fighting against him
who ends up getting converted.

291
00:17:25,800 --> 00:17:27,720
Hypothetical.
I mean, I there's there's a

292
00:17:27,720 --> 00:17:29,000
bunch of characters.
I couldn't keep them all

293
00:17:29,000 --> 00:17:30,440
straight.
It's a it's a big book.

294
00:17:30,440 --> 00:17:32,280
The book of the holds about the
size of the book of Mormons.

295
00:17:32,280 --> 00:17:35,560
So.
OK, there's a lot going on and I

296
00:17:35,560 --> 00:17:38,040
might not have that exactly
right, but basically this is a a

297
00:17:38,320 --> 00:17:40,720
Captain Roma contemporary.
OK.

298
00:17:40,840 --> 00:17:45,320
Who has given up his warlike
ways and he's traveled up north

299
00:17:45,320 --> 00:17:48,960
with Hagoth and they're
establishing a new society.

300
00:17:49,320 --> 00:17:53,560
OK and so and I'm going to
slaughter these names again.

301
00:17:53,560 --> 00:17:57,640
I don't have the pronunciation,
but so she to go, ha, we know

302
00:17:57,640 --> 00:18:01,240
that you are a great man of
arms, end of war and know where

303
00:18:01,240 --> 00:18:04,440
of you speak.
Yet I perceive that you are also

304
00:18:04,440 --> 00:18:06,920
a man of council and wisdom.
Tell us then what you would that

305
00:18:06,920 --> 00:18:09,440
we should do as a people to
avoid such evil.

306
00:18:09,440 --> 00:18:11,320
And he just talked about the
evils of war.

307
00:18:12,560 --> 00:18:15,400
And he answered, saying, great
are the healers of the Ammonites

308
00:18:15,400 --> 00:18:18,160
for every hurt and heal for
every hurt, the healers have a

309
00:18:18,160 --> 00:18:20,640
remedy.
Yeah, even for war and strife

310
00:18:20,640 --> 00:18:23,400
there is a remedy.
And there's a lot of difference

311
00:18:23,400 --> 00:18:29,040
here too, to the Ammonites.
They're kind of pictured as this

312
00:18:29,040 --> 00:18:34,640
really kind of ideal society
that they're, they're Lamanite

313
00:18:34,640 --> 00:18:38,000
in culture, but they've accepted
Christ with the Nephites.

314
00:18:38,000 --> 00:18:42,040
And so they have this
combination that is somehow

315
00:18:42,280 --> 00:18:44,560
better than, you know, anything
else.

316
00:18:45,080 --> 00:18:48,280
So so he's talking about, you
know, they, they got these

317
00:18:48,280 --> 00:18:51,560
healers and so Pennsylvania.
And then Tenmon answered him,

318
00:18:51,560 --> 00:18:54,840
saying, be now a healer to us
and teach us this remedy.

319
00:18:54,840 --> 00:18:58,240
So what is this remedy to have a
a society and a people where

320
00:18:58,240 --> 00:19:00,960
there's no war and there's no
strife like the Nephites keep

321
00:19:00,960 --> 00:19:02,800
having, you know, all these
conflicts.

322
00:19:03,080 --> 00:19:05,960
What is the solution for a
society or a government, so to

323
00:19:05,960 --> 00:19:09,600
speak, that won't have this kind
of turmoil?

324
00:19:10,280 --> 00:19:14,040
Right.
So for the prophetess, and

325
00:19:14,040 --> 00:19:19,440
that's this paw and the tendon,
she's the prophetess.

326
00:19:19,440 --> 00:19:22,160
So for the prophetess perceived
his thoughts and knew that he

327
00:19:22,160 --> 00:19:23,720
would teach a great thing to the
people.

328
00:19:24,120 --> 00:19:25,680
I'll be it.
If the people should listen to

329
00:19:25,680 --> 00:19:28,280
the words of this great man,
they might be preserved from

330
00:19:28,280 --> 00:19:30,000
falling into the pride of the
Nephites.

331
00:19:30,000 --> 00:19:34,360
So this is their this is their
solution, their anti societal

332
00:19:34,360 --> 00:19:37,480
destruction solution.
And he answered, saying,

333
00:19:37,480 --> 00:19:41,480
remember you and think upon all
the wars of the Nephites and the

334
00:19:41,480 --> 00:19:45,040
Lamanites, in each of them one
can recall the names of those

335
00:19:45,040 --> 00:19:47,840
men who began them and those men
who ended them.

336
00:19:47,840 --> 00:19:51,440
Is this not so?
And all the people answered,

337
00:19:51,440 --> 00:19:53,360
yay.
Can you recite to me the names

338
00:19:53,360 --> 00:19:55,680
of the women?
Yeah, the mothers, yay, the

339
00:19:55,880 --> 00:19:58,600
mothers with children who
started or ended those great

340
00:19:58,600 --> 00:20:01,800
conflicts?
And the people answered, nay.

341
00:20:02,720 --> 00:20:06,600
And were the rulers elevated by
the women, yay by the mothers

342
00:20:06,600 --> 00:20:08,960
who were to provide their sons
to be offered up?

343
00:20:09,760 --> 00:20:12,760
Unto their great conflicts.
And the people answered, Nay,

344
00:20:13,960 --> 00:20:17,680
then I say, when you elevate
people to be judges and rulers

345
00:20:17,680 --> 00:20:21,440
over you, let them be elevated
by the voice of the mothers, and

346
00:20:21,440 --> 00:20:24,920
they shall make rulers who shall
not make war, for their counsels

347
00:20:24,920 --> 00:20:28,600
will ever be the preserving of
the children, and not the

348
00:20:28,600 --> 00:20:30,840
offering them up because of
pride.

349
00:20:31,400 --> 00:20:38,640
So he's proposing a a very
radical societal shift here,

350
00:20:39,360 --> 00:20:47,880
where basically only the women
nominate their their potential

351
00:20:47,880 --> 00:20:51,280
leaders.
OK, so so the idea is they could

352
00:20:51,280 --> 00:20:55,080
still be male leaders, but they
they can only be nominated by

353
00:20:55,080 --> 00:20:57,400
women, is that correct?
Right.

354
00:20:57,480 --> 00:21:00,120
And there's a, there's like a
two layer system like a

355
00:21:00,360 --> 00:21:02,840
basically there's like a primary
and then maybe a general

356
00:21:02,840 --> 00:21:05,680
election and, and they get to
pick all the primary contenders.

357
00:21:05,680 --> 00:21:09,400
Basically, they have their own
vote and they vote first and

358
00:21:09,400 --> 00:21:11,680
then everybody else kind of
ratifies it or not, right?

359
00:21:12,280 --> 00:21:13,360
Interesting.
OK.

360
00:21:15,120 --> 00:21:19,040
But Paham attendant answered him
saying, does a woman never

361
00:21:19,040 --> 00:21:22,560
become filled with pride then
nay, she took Goha for I have

362
00:21:22,560 --> 00:21:25,160
seen how women do adorn
themselves in fine twin linen

363
00:21:25,160 --> 00:21:28,160
costly things.
So she's putting out a counter

364
00:21:28,160 --> 00:21:30,760
argument.
But then she took Goha also

365
00:21:30,760 --> 00:21:34,760
discerned her thoughts, how that
she spoke unto him only so that

366
00:21:34,760 --> 00:21:37,240
the people might think earnestly
upon the matter with all

367
00:21:37,240 --> 00:21:39,200
seriousness.
And he took courage, so he

368
00:21:39,200 --> 00:21:41,680
realizes she didn't really.
She doesn't really mean it.

369
00:21:42,520 --> 00:21:45,240
Gotcha.
She's just playing devil's

370
00:21:45,240 --> 00:21:47,600
advocate.
Yeah, you speak rightly,

371
00:21:47,600 --> 00:21:52,400
Pennsylvania Hementen.
But consider a mighty man such

372
00:21:52,680 --> 00:21:56,360
as myself or Hagoth, might by
his powers and strength or in

373
00:21:56,360 --> 00:22:00,520
arms win himself to the seat of
the judge by the esteem or the

374
00:22:00,520 --> 00:22:04,840
fear had by men of such feats.
But if he had to win the seat of

375
00:22:04,840 --> 00:22:07,000
power by the esteem of the
mothers, he would have to

376
00:22:07,000 --> 00:22:10,440
establish to them that his
policies would secure the safety

377
00:22:10,440 --> 00:22:16,200
of their little ones.
So if somebody's really big and

378
00:22:16,200 --> 00:22:19,640
muscular and strong, I guess the
idea is that men will be like,

379
00:22:19,640 --> 00:22:23,480
whoa, that guy's tough.
Let's let's make make him our

380
00:22:23,480 --> 00:22:27,640
leader.
But women, on the other hand,

381
00:22:27,960 --> 00:22:29,720
won't won't be impressed by
that.

382
00:22:30,920 --> 00:22:33,640
Right.
Allegedly right.

383
00:22:33,840 --> 00:22:35,720
Allegedly right.
Allegedly.

384
00:22:35,920 --> 00:22:39,280
Allegedly.
So here here's the other problem

385
00:22:39,280 --> 00:22:43,440
I have here and and maybe you
can speak to this may and if you

386
00:22:43,440 --> 00:22:45,760
got more examples down the road
and you you're going to get to

387
00:22:45,760 --> 00:22:49,720
it later, that's fine.
But is is, is this text

388
00:22:49,720 --> 00:22:56,360
basically making the argument
that as long as men are kind of

389
00:22:57,720 --> 00:23:01,720
in a leadership position, that,
or let me rephrase this even

390
00:23:01,720 --> 00:23:05,280
better, 'cause it says they're
the safety of their little ones,

391
00:23:05,280 --> 00:23:07,560
right?
So is it basically saying that

392
00:23:07,560 --> 00:23:10,160
men don't love their children as
much as their mothers do?

393
00:23:11,120 --> 00:23:13,440
Well, I, I, I think it kind of
looks like that's what it's

394
00:23:13,440 --> 00:23:15,640
saying.
And that's that's kind of where

395
00:23:15,640 --> 00:23:18,240
I take issue with it from a
theological perspective, right?

396
00:23:18,800 --> 00:23:21,120
Right.
So he goes on and says, behold,

397
00:23:21,120 --> 00:23:25,200
it is true that women may become
puffed up in pride, but are not

398
00:23:25,200 --> 00:23:31,560
mothers with children as a
separate Class, A separate

399
00:23:31,560 --> 00:23:33,840
class.
OK.

400
00:23:35,320 --> 00:23:38,160
More generally concerned with
the good of the children than

401
00:23:38,160 --> 00:23:41,360
our other classes.
Or what mother, when asked to

402
00:23:41,360 --> 00:23:44,360
give up her young, one young son
to war, is not more inclined

403
00:23:44,360 --> 00:23:47,000
than any other woman to
ascertain that the cause of the

404
00:23:47,000 --> 00:23:50,960
war be a good 'cause I got, I
think, issue with this.

405
00:23:51,480 --> 00:23:55,760
I, I, I love my wife and I know
that she cares deeply for the

406
00:23:55,760 --> 00:24:01,120
welfare of our children.
But to suggest that she has

407
00:24:01,120 --> 00:24:04,160
these cares and concerns and
that I as a father don't?

408
00:24:05,120 --> 00:24:08,400
I I find that kind of, I find
that personally a little

409
00:24:08,400 --> 00:24:09,680
insulting.
Yeah.

410
00:24:10,960 --> 00:24:14,960
I think it's elevating woman as
a separate class essentially

411
00:24:14,960 --> 00:24:18,600
above men, saying that women
have a have a a greater

412
00:24:18,600 --> 00:24:24,400
character here inherently.
But he goes on and says, yeah, I

413
00:24:24,400 --> 00:24:27,200
tell you if you would, if you
would avoid conflicts as a

414
00:24:27,200 --> 00:24:32,440
whole, people choose you out to
make you laws, the wise and the

415
00:24:32,440 --> 00:24:33,720
charitable.
Wait, what?

416
00:24:33,720 --> 00:24:36,640
Not.
Like the whole people choose you

417
00:24:36,640 --> 00:24:39,600
out to make your I think I'm
supposed to be your laws.

418
00:24:40,400 --> 00:24:43,400
I I don't know that is what it
says.

419
00:24:43,400 --> 00:24:46,840
I don't know if I understand
that maybe grammar error, but

420
00:24:46,840 --> 00:24:48,640
let them be chosen by the
mothers.

421
00:24:49,200 --> 00:24:52,920
Let those who have the most to
lose use your rulers.

422
00:24:53,000 --> 00:25:02,280
This is the remedy.
So just just basically and see

423
00:25:02,280 --> 00:25:04,440
here I, I, I want to be careful,
right?

424
00:25:04,440 --> 00:25:10,440
Like, OK, saw a comedian once do
a routine and he said something

425
00:25:10,440 --> 00:25:13,640
really good, right?
He said, do I think a woman can

426
00:25:13,640 --> 00:25:16,480
be president?
He said, absolutely, A woman can

427
00:25:16,480 --> 00:25:19,720
screw it up just as badly as a
man can, right?

428
00:25:20,120 --> 00:25:23,320
And that's kind of the way I
look at it, right?

429
00:25:23,320 --> 00:25:27,680
It it's I don't look at my wives
as subservient.

430
00:25:27,680 --> 00:25:31,360
I don't look at them as less
than they're equal partners with

431
00:25:31,360 --> 00:25:35,120
me right in in how we govern our
home and how we do things.

432
00:25:35,840 --> 00:25:40,440
This, though, seems to want to
flip that right And this on the

433
00:25:40,440 --> 00:25:43,440
surface, you know, and and
granted, we're not that far in.

434
00:25:43,440 --> 00:25:47,520
So in my my opinion may change.
But right now, this almost looks

435
00:25:47,520 --> 00:25:50,400
like an overcorrection of all
the bad things that men have

436
00:25:50,400 --> 00:25:53,120
done for a while.
Right.

437
00:25:53,200 --> 00:25:58,840
Yeah, I, I kind of agree.
And so and I also, I don't think

438
00:25:58,840 --> 00:26:02,200
that's necessarily the remedy.
I I think there is ample

439
00:26:02,200 --> 00:26:08,320
historical evidence of of women
messing stuff up too.

440
00:26:08,680 --> 00:26:09,800
I mean.
Right.

441
00:26:10,960 --> 00:26:13,720
Not to get too political, but I
mean I think in the last few

442
00:26:13,720 --> 00:26:17,800
elections, if if only the women
were voting, our country would

443
00:26:17,800 --> 00:26:22,360
be in a a very less ideal place.
Just.

444
00:26:22,800 --> 00:26:27,480
Go and buy the statistics,
voting statistics, you know, and

445
00:26:27,480 --> 00:26:30,360
there's, there's also, there's
all kinds of stories that are

446
00:26:30,360 --> 00:26:36,000
just horrible though, of, of
these fathers who, whose

447
00:26:36,000 --> 00:26:40,080
girlfriends are pregnant, right?
And, and they, and, you know,

448
00:26:40,080 --> 00:26:43,960
sometimes men pressure women
into getting abortions, right?

449
00:26:43,960 --> 00:26:47,800
That does happen, of course, but
sometimes a woman decides she's

450
00:26:47,800 --> 00:26:49,600
getting an abortion.
Right.

451
00:26:49,680 --> 00:26:53,480
Contrary to the desires of of
that that child's father, right.

452
00:26:53,960 --> 00:26:56,200
And it's those things happen
too.

453
00:26:56,200 --> 00:27:01,200
So I I don't see how you can put
forth as a political philosophy,

454
00:27:02,440 --> 00:27:07,640
this kind of remedy for the, for
the ills of society can be

455
00:27:07,640 --> 00:27:10,000
solved by just just going with
women.

456
00:27:10,120 --> 00:27:11,320
We're just going to go with the
women.

457
00:27:12,800 --> 00:27:16,600
Right.
No, look, and again, I want to

458
00:27:16,600 --> 00:27:20,680
say this right, There are great
women and there are great men

459
00:27:20,760 --> 00:27:23,600
and there are crappy men and
there are crappy women because

460
00:27:23,600 --> 00:27:31,200
we're all people, right?
And to this idea of making one

461
00:27:32,720 --> 00:27:36,440
once gender, because there
really is only two.

462
00:27:37,560 --> 00:27:39,080
That's my first class.
I hate mail.

463
00:27:39,080 --> 00:27:41,840
I'll get there.
There really are only two,

464
00:27:42,280 --> 00:27:47,080
right?
And so with that, I don't seek

465
00:27:47,120 --> 00:27:50,880
to put one to be subservient to
the other.

466
00:27:50,880 --> 00:27:54,760
Right now, obviously within
Scripture we have, we have a

467
00:27:54,760 --> 00:27:58,920
family hierarchy that the that
God has has carved out, right?

468
00:27:59,240 --> 00:28:04,280
And I think that deserves to be
looked at and applied as I

469
00:28:04,280 --> 00:28:09,040
believe the Lord intended it,
which is different but equal,

470
00:28:09,400 --> 00:28:11,120
right?
And this seems to go a different

471
00:28:11,120 --> 00:28:13,000
direction.
Right.

472
00:28:13,040 --> 00:28:15,160
No, I completely agree.
It's different, but equal.

473
00:28:15,160 --> 00:28:18,320
I well, I think that's what
Christianity teaches.

474
00:28:18,320 --> 00:28:19,920
I think that's what the Book of
Mormon teaches.

475
00:28:19,920 --> 00:28:21,720
I think that's what the
Restoration teaches.

476
00:28:22,240 --> 00:28:24,520
Right.
But that's not what this

477
00:28:24,520 --> 00:28:28,200
teaches.
Yeah, this seems to almost want

478
00:28:28,200 --> 00:28:32,440
to do, if I'm understanding it
correctly, this almost is doing

479
00:28:32,440 --> 00:28:35,880
what early Christianity did
right, where painted Eve is the

480
00:28:35,880 --> 00:28:39,920
problem of all mankind for
partaking of the fruit.

481
00:28:40,360 --> 00:28:43,520
This seems to be saying, no, the
problem is men, right?

482
00:28:43,960 --> 00:28:47,160
It's the same thing, it's just
on a different shoe, the shoes

483
00:28:47,160 --> 00:28:49,640
on a different foot now.
Correct.

484
00:28:49,640 --> 00:28:52,520
Yeah, yeah.
And I along with that, I don't

485
00:28:52,520 --> 00:28:54,880
have the reference here, there's
another reference that basically

486
00:28:54,880 --> 00:28:57,640
though suggests that it's in the
Volume 2.

487
00:28:57,640 --> 00:29:02,920
And I so Volume 2 is a tricky 1
because it is their version of

488
00:29:02,920 --> 00:29:09,800
the endowment and it's got a lot
of wording copied and pasted

489
00:29:09,800 --> 00:29:13,320
from, from, you know, Joseph
Smith's endowment or, or

490
00:29:13,320 --> 00:29:15,360
restoration endowment.
Right.

491
00:29:16,040 --> 00:29:19,560
And so I'm not super comfortable
sharing a lot of that just

492
00:29:19,560 --> 00:29:22,120
because so much of it is common.
I don't want to offend people

493
00:29:23,040 --> 00:29:26,720
either by putting stuff that
they consider not to be shared

494
00:29:26,840 --> 00:29:31,320
on the Internet or on a podcast.
So I'm a little more careful

495
00:29:31,320 --> 00:29:33,480
with that.
But basically in there it does

496
00:29:33,480 --> 00:29:37,640
describe that because women
sacrifice 9 to death in

497
00:29:37,640 --> 00:29:42,600
childbirth, so therefore women
inherently have this gift of

498
00:29:42,760 --> 00:29:47,640
being able to sacrifice, and men
because they don't therefore

499
00:29:47,960 --> 00:29:50,080
have to learn sacrifice from
women.

500
00:29:50,960 --> 00:29:54,920
Well, and again, I take, I take
a little bit of umbrage with

501
00:29:54,920 --> 00:29:58,560
that too, right?
Again, I don't want to discount

502
00:29:58,560 --> 00:30:01,000
what a mother goes through in
childbirth, right?

503
00:30:01,000 --> 00:30:05,400
I've seen it four times over.
And it is like, oh, look, I'm

504
00:30:05,400 --> 00:30:08,400
not going to lie to you.
If I had to do that, I'd have

505
00:30:08,400 --> 00:30:10,880
one kid, right?
And I'd never do it again,

506
00:30:11,000 --> 00:30:12,800
right?
So kudos to all the women out

507
00:30:12,800 --> 00:30:15,040
there because they are way
tougher than I am.

508
00:30:15,960 --> 00:30:19,440
However, doesn't the father
sacrifice for his family?

509
00:30:19,440 --> 00:30:20,280
I.
Mean.

510
00:30:20,280 --> 00:30:22,240
I thought so.
I mean, I kind of.

511
00:30:22,400 --> 00:30:25,120
And, you know, even along with
that, you know, sometimes women

512
00:30:25,120 --> 00:30:27,760
do die in childbirth, right?
And sometimes childbirth brings

513
00:30:27,760 --> 00:30:31,200
them to the verge of death.
But you know, sometimes men

514
00:30:31,440 --> 00:30:33,520
sacrifice their lives for their
families too.

515
00:30:33,680 --> 00:30:34,840
Yeah.
That's in.

516
00:30:34,840 --> 00:30:37,960
That's inherent in fact, not
even their families.

517
00:30:38,120 --> 00:30:41,040
Maybe, I mean, maybe not for
another man, but even then,

518
00:30:41,040 --> 00:30:43,480
like, you know, if you're a man,
you're standing on a on a subway

519
00:30:43,480 --> 00:30:45,760
platform and you see a kid
falling there and and the and

520
00:30:45,760 --> 00:30:50,040
the train's coming.
I think for a good majority of

521
00:30:50,040 --> 00:30:53,960
men don't know who that is.
But zero thinking, instant

522
00:30:53,960 --> 00:30:56,600
action you're getting in there.
Even if even if it even if you

523
00:30:56,600 --> 00:30:58,760
die trying, you're going to try
to save that kids life.

524
00:31:00,160 --> 00:31:03,400
It's just built into our nature,
the self sacrifice for our

525
00:31:03,400 --> 00:31:07,360
families and not even for our
families, for strangers, women's

526
00:31:07,360 --> 00:31:09,640
and and strangers, children at
the very least.

527
00:31:09,640 --> 00:31:14,760
So, yeah, I, I, I don't, I don't
agree with with that

528
00:31:14,760 --> 00:31:16,600
perspective.
That's really.

529
00:31:16,600 --> 00:31:18,880
And I, I've just got a couple
examples here, but these things

530
00:31:19,560 --> 00:31:22,040
repeat and repeat and permeate
the entire text.

531
00:31:24,040 --> 00:31:27,160
And so and similar with that.
One of the things, this is from

532
00:31:27,160 --> 00:31:29,240
their volume 2.
And I just got this single verse

533
00:31:29,240 --> 00:31:31,960
because everything around it,
you know, might be too touchy,

534
00:31:32,680 --> 00:31:36,120
but it has Elohim.
So there's two Elohims in their

535
00:31:36,120 --> 00:31:38,520
endowment.
There's Elohim the father and

536
00:31:38,520 --> 00:31:42,160
Elohim the mother.
But here Elohim the father says

537
00:31:42,160 --> 00:31:44,640
it is.
Well, this is after they, Peter,

538
00:31:44,640 --> 00:31:48,280
James and John basically
administer a covenant of

539
00:31:48,280 --> 00:31:54,400
chastity.
And then after returning, he

540
00:31:54,400 --> 00:31:58,480
says the woman is a right model
for the man and they are ready

541
00:31:58,480 --> 00:32:01,040
to progress further.
And again, the stuff right

542
00:32:01,040 --> 00:32:06,120
before that presents this idea
that basically because men don't

543
00:32:06,120 --> 00:32:15,000
have this natural sacrificial
nature, that that's kind of the

544
00:32:15,000 --> 00:32:19,800
reason why men need Eve to teach
them as a, as a role model.

545
00:32:20,760 --> 00:32:24,000
So, yeah.
And then again, there's more.

546
00:32:24,000 --> 00:32:25,400
I I've got a lot of research
here.

547
00:32:26,320 --> 00:32:28,280
You're you're good it.
Took a long time to compile it

548
00:32:28,280 --> 00:32:32,760
all.
But, you know, with that, I

549
00:32:32,760 --> 00:32:34,960
think this actually might play
since we're talking about their

550
00:32:35,200 --> 00:32:38,400
their political system, their
government a little bit.

551
00:32:38,760 --> 00:32:42,560
I think this actually ties into
the government and legal system

552
00:32:42,560 --> 00:32:45,480
that they've got here too.
This isn't theology, but I think

553
00:32:45,480 --> 00:32:48,280
it's worth looking at because I
think it's tied to theology.

554
00:32:49,720 --> 00:32:53,080
And I think you'd probably agree
with me on this, Dave, that the

555
00:32:53,080 --> 00:32:56,560
Constitution is an inspired
document.

556
00:32:56,800 --> 00:33:00,920
Absolutely.
It might not be scripture as in,

557
00:33:01,000 --> 00:33:04,360
you know, the gospel being
presented to man, but I do

558
00:33:04,360 --> 00:33:09,000
believe it is basically kind of
was brought about through an

559
00:33:09,000 --> 00:33:12,800
inspired process.
And I think that the testimony

560
00:33:12,800 --> 00:33:15,200
to that too, is when Joseph
Smith was working to improve

561
00:33:15,440 --> 00:33:21,000
the, the Constitution and, and,
and God told him, no, yeah, you

562
00:33:21,000 --> 00:33:24,040
can make it a little better, but
we're going to this is for this

563
00:33:24,040 --> 00:33:28,640
people right now.
And so that indicates that God

564
00:33:28,640 --> 00:33:31,120
had a hand in, in the
Constitution in in a way that

565
00:33:31,120 --> 00:33:34,680
our legal system works right.
The Lord tells you he didn't in

566
00:33:34,680 --> 00:33:38,200
doctrine and Covenants, right.
I inspired that to to write

567
00:33:38,200 --> 00:33:41,960
these words.
I mean it, it's not scripture in

568
00:33:41,960 --> 00:33:45,200
the sense of of a salvatic text
like we get in the Book of

569
00:33:45,200 --> 00:33:49,720
Mormon or or the Bible or, you
know, exalting text like we get

570
00:33:49,720 --> 00:33:54,520
in, in, in, in, in the in the
Pearl, great price in the

571
00:33:54,520 --> 00:33:57,560
Doctrine and Covenants.
But nonetheless, I mean, God

572
00:33:57,560 --> 00:34:00,880
spoke, God says, I spoke to
these men and I set this up

573
00:34:00,880 --> 00:34:03,680
right.
So it may not be scrap scripture

574
00:34:03,680 --> 00:34:07,760
with a capital S, but it might
be scripture with a little S,

575
00:34:08,639 --> 00:34:10,560
right?
So that's why I I think it's

576
00:34:10,560 --> 00:34:13,600
worth looking at.
And comparing and furthermore,

577
00:34:13,600 --> 00:34:18,159
look, everyone says, you know
that, that you shouldn't talk

578
00:34:18,159 --> 00:34:20,960
about politics and religion and
that your religion shouldn't

579
00:34:20,960 --> 00:34:24,360
play into your politics.
But that's not true, right?

580
00:34:24,360 --> 00:34:28,719
Fundamentally, that's not true.
Every nation that's ever existed

581
00:34:29,080 --> 00:34:33,800
bases their law on some sort of
perceived higher law, right?

582
00:34:34,600 --> 00:34:36,239
Right.
A moral A moral foundation.

583
00:34:36,280 --> 00:34:39,239
Yep, we did it.
Every country before us did it.

584
00:34:39,679 --> 00:34:42,960
And so they do intersect.
There's no way that that

585
00:34:43,120 --> 00:34:48,120
religion and, and politics don't
or government don't intersect.

586
00:34:48,320 --> 00:34:50,639
So this is, this is fair game,
right?

587
00:34:50,840 --> 00:34:54,639
We're going to talk about about
what it is that these people in

588
00:34:54,639 --> 00:34:59,000
this record said that they,
they, they valued and it's going

589
00:34:59,000 --> 00:35:00,920
to show up through how they
govern.

590
00:35:02,120 --> 00:35:03,200
Right.
Exactly.

591
00:35:03,600 --> 00:35:06,120
And so, and I was curious about
this because they, they

592
00:35:06,120 --> 00:35:09,280
presented their governmental
form in Volume 1, right?

593
00:35:09,280 --> 00:35:12,200
Where they have a basically they
have a council.

594
00:35:12,960 --> 00:35:16,000
And this council is elected by
the people, but they're

595
00:35:16,000 --> 00:35:22,800
nominated by the women, right?
And this council is that's it,

596
00:35:22,800 --> 00:35:24,360
it's like a council of 12
people.

597
00:35:24,840 --> 00:35:31,400
And that's the government.
And I was kind of curious, you

598
00:35:31,400 --> 00:35:32,800
know, what their legal code
might be.

599
00:35:32,800 --> 00:35:36,240
And then sure enough, in Volume
4, we get some explanation on

600
00:35:36,360 --> 00:35:38,200
some of the legal code.
So these are these are their

601
00:35:38,200 --> 00:35:44,080
laws basically, right?
So this is there's a lot of laws

602
00:35:44,080 --> 00:35:45,320
before this that kind of come
out.

603
00:35:45,320 --> 00:35:48,920
I'm just jumping here to the the
interesting stuff or the stuff

604
00:35:48,920 --> 00:35:53,600
that I found interesting.
So here in I can't pronounce

605
00:35:53,600 --> 00:35:54,040
that.
I'm sorry.

606
00:35:54,040 --> 00:35:55,200
If you got the screen, you can
see it.

607
00:35:55,200 --> 00:36:01,480
This is in volume 4, second on
the Ton, chapter 1 and starting

608
00:36:01,480 --> 00:36:07,800
on verse 53.
And if men and women bind

609
00:36:07,800 --> 00:36:10,880
themselves together in a holy
state of matrimony, let them be

610
00:36:10,880 --> 00:36:13,360
faithful one to another.
And if they be found in

611
00:36:13,360 --> 00:36:17,040
adultery, let them be cast out
and the children shall remain

612
00:36:17,040 --> 00:36:21,200
with the faithful party.
So this is also a this is a,

613
00:36:21,240 --> 00:36:24,200
these societies are practicing
some kind of a, of a communal

614
00:36:24,200 --> 00:36:28,320
system, communal.
I don't know it, it looks very

615
00:36:28,320 --> 00:36:34,360
communistic to me, but but it's
an attempt at I guess maybe a

616
00:36:34,360 --> 00:36:37,480
somewhat what we might call
United Order or having all

617
00:36:37,480 --> 00:36:41,640
things in common, right, right.
They're calling this is their

618
00:36:41,640 --> 00:36:43,480
interpretation of the law of
consecration.

619
00:36:43,480 --> 00:36:49,640
And so, you know, people are
given or receive stewardships as

620
00:36:49,640 --> 00:36:52,520
their jobs, and you just do your
job.

621
00:36:52,600 --> 00:36:56,960
And once you acquire for your
own needs, everything else gets

622
00:36:56,960 --> 00:36:59,520
donated, right?
Yep, can I can?

623
00:36:59,560 --> 00:37:03,360
Is it OK if I finish read this
this 53 here because I think

624
00:37:03,360 --> 00:37:05,080
this is important.
Right.

625
00:37:05,080 --> 00:37:06,840
Yeah, I was going to get back.
I just wanted to clarify.

626
00:37:06,840 --> 00:37:08,040
Sorry, sorry.
Yeah, yeah.

627
00:37:08,200 --> 00:37:10,680
I I just wanted to give the
clarification on on how this

628
00:37:10,680 --> 00:37:12,160
works though, right?
Yep.

629
00:37:12,160 --> 00:37:15,560
So, so up to what what we've
read so far, it basically says

630
00:37:15,560 --> 00:37:18,520
the the party that was faithful
to the marriage, they'll take

631
00:37:18,520 --> 00:37:21,720
the children.
And the other is, but this is

632
00:37:21,720 --> 00:37:23,880
the other party though, let them
be cast out.

633
00:37:23,880 --> 00:37:26,520
And I just want to point to what
is the significance of being

634
00:37:26,520 --> 00:37:30,880
cast out in this type of a
society, right?

635
00:37:30,880 --> 00:37:34,160
Because this is this is exile.
This is a very big deal.

636
00:37:34,840 --> 00:37:36,960
You don't, you know, you used to
own property.

637
00:37:36,960 --> 00:37:39,320
Now you don't.
You used to have possessions.

638
00:37:39,480 --> 00:37:41,600
Now you don't.
Yes, you're being, you're being

639
00:37:41,600 --> 00:37:43,400
cast out.
You're losing your job, you're

640
00:37:43,400 --> 00:37:49,720
losing your possessions.
This is a big deal in a society.

641
00:37:49,720 --> 00:37:52,120
It's not like America, where
it's like, oh, OK, that church

642
00:37:52,120 --> 00:37:53,880
cast you out, you go to a
different church.

643
00:37:53,920 --> 00:37:55,920
Or this city cast you out, you
go to a different city.

644
00:37:56,640 --> 00:37:58,600
Right there, it's a death
penalty.

645
00:37:58,600 --> 00:38:01,680
It's a slow death penalty.
Most likely right?

646
00:38:02,200 --> 00:38:05,600
Yep.
So OK, that makes sense, right?

647
00:38:05,600 --> 00:38:06,960
But you want you want to read
the rest of that.

648
00:38:07,720 --> 00:38:08,800
Yeah, I can.
Or you can.

649
00:38:08,800 --> 00:38:10,640
I didn't mean to cut you off,
but I can do that.

650
00:38:11,320 --> 00:38:15,720
And if both mother and father be
unfaithful, let the children be

651
00:38:15,720 --> 00:38:19,600
adopted unto the faithful.
Ford is not good for children to

652
00:38:19,600 --> 00:38:23,640
be raised among adulterers,
right?

653
00:38:24,480 --> 00:38:28,280
And this is this is the first
thing that really, really jumped

654
00:38:28,280 --> 00:38:34,040
out at me in, in this legal code
is scary, really scary.

655
00:38:36,280 --> 00:38:41,000
Because I agree, you know what?
It is not good for children to

656
00:38:41,000 --> 00:38:44,960
be raised up among adulterers.
You're not for that.

657
00:38:45,520 --> 00:38:47,560
I'm not for that.
I don't think that's a good

658
00:38:47,560 --> 00:38:52,600
thing, however, to take the
children from them.

659
00:38:52,600 --> 00:38:54,000
So you're casting these people
out.

660
00:38:54,000 --> 00:38:57,800
You're basically kidnapping
their children and sending them

661
00:38:57,800 --> 00:38:59,400
off into the wilderness.
Yeah.

662
00:39:00,480 --> 00:39:03,120
That's scary.
That is, that is a little

663
00:39:03,120 --> 00:39:06,360
spooky, right?
I mean, look, there's no doubt

664
00:39:06,920 --> 00:39:11,560
that our scriptures as Mormons
have a direct bearing on how we

665
00:39:11,560 --> 00:39:15,440
conduct our meetings, how we
look at Zion, how we do our

666
00:39:15,440 --> 00:39:17,760
ordinances, all these things,
right?

667
00:39:19,080 --> 00:39:23,040
And so if this is in your
scripture, if this is in a book

668
00:39:23,040 --> 00:39:26,680
of scripture, the, I think it's
a fair question to ask, is this

669
00:39:26,680 --> 00:39:28,880
what you're espousing?
Right?

670
00:39:29,160 --> 00:39:31,280
Because here's the thing, I
agree with you.

671
00:39:31,640 --> 00:39:33,840
I hate adultery.
I'm not a fan.

672
00:39:34,240 --> 00:39:36,200
I don't think anyone should
participate in it.

673
00:39:36,680 --> 00:39:41,120
It's bad, right?
However, that's a broad

674
00:39:41,120 --> 00:39:46,760
statement and we don't know.
I've look, I've sat in on a

675
00:39:46,760 --> 00:39:50,240
couple bishops courts, and these
are never as cut and dry as what

676
00:39:50,240 --> 00:39:53,160
we want them to be ever, right?
Less messy.

677
00:39:53,680 --> 00:39:57,760
It's messy, right?
And so is this a blanket

678
00:39:57,760 --> 00:39:59,600
statement?
Are they talking about, is it

679
00:39:59,600 --> 00:40:01,800
case by case?
I would like some background,

680
00:40:01,800 --> 00:40:03,560
right?
I would like to know exactly

681
00:40:03,880 --> 00:40:07,520
what they're getting here.
But absent that background, I

682
00:40:07,520 --> 00:40:11,320
think you have to do as the text
says right if you're going to

683
00:40:11,320 --> 00:40:13,680
adhere to it.
Right.

684
00:40:13,680 --> 00:40:17,200
And see, this is another area
where it seems more communistic

685
00:40:17,280 --> 00:40:21,840
in my opinion, because you know,
here in America you might be

686
00:40:22,000 --> 00:40:24,400
guilty of a crime, but
basically, you know, your your

687
00:40:24,400 --> 00:40:26,560
children are basically kind of
considered your possession.

688
00:40:26,680 --> 00:40:28,640
You have a right to your
children.

689
00:40:28,640 --> 00:40:32,040
Your children have certain
rights claimed upon you as well.

690
00:40:32,560 --> 00:40:34,240
And those rights are not being
met.

691
00:40:34,880 --> 00:40:37,040
I understand the need for
children to be removed from

692
00:40:37,040 --> 00:40:42,360
parents in certain situations,
but outside of those situations,

693
00:40:43,200 --> 00:40:48,960
there are parental rights.
And if it's not good for

694
00:40:48,960 --> 00:40:51,360
children to be raised up among
adulterers, I kind of have to

695
00:40:51,360 --> 00:40:54,120
ask, is it good for children to
be raised up among liars?

696
00:40:55,400 --> 00:40:57,280
No.
Is it good for children to be

697
00:40:57,280 --> 00:41:04,440
raised up amongst thieves, porn
addicts, social media addicts,

698
00:41:04,840 --> 00:41:06,800
parents that yell in front of
the children?

699
00:41:07,440 --> 00:41:12,320
I mean, where is the line?
If if children can be taken for

700
00:41:12,320 --> 00:41:17,040
their good, for their good
according to you know, because

701
00:41:17,040 --> 00:41:20,040
it's not good.
Where is where does that create?

702
00:41:20,040 --> 00:41:22,400
Where's the line?
It it kind of craves this idea

703
00:41:22,400 --> 00:41:25,040
that the children are kind of
property of the common of the

704
00:41:25,080 --> 00:41:27,720
the children are commodities of
the of the community.

705
00:41:28,960 --> 00:41:32,200
Yeah, and look, dude, I, I don't
know if you remember, but it

706
00:41:32,200 --> 00:41:35,400
wasn't that long ago we had
people coming out and telling us

707
00:41:35,400 --> 00:41:37,880
it took a village to raise a
child, right.

708
00:41:38,400 --> 00:41:41,800
It it was one of those things
where and, and recently, you

709
00:41:41,800 --> 00:41:45,080
know, and I say recently, two or
three years ago, we see in

710
00:41:45,080 --> 00:41:48,080
England and it was kind of
floated here in the States,

711
00:41:48,080 --> 00:41:49,800
right.
If you get involved in what is

712
00:41:49,800 --> 00:41:53,400
classified as hate speech, well,
you don't want a child being

713
00:41:53,400 --> 00:41:55,560
raised with hate.
So maybe we should take him from

714
00:41:55,560 --> 00:41:59,560
the hateful parents and, and put
them into a system where they

715
00:41:59,560 --> 00:42:02,600
will learn to love everybody.
Right now, that hate speech

716
00:42:02,920 --> 00:42:05,520
centered around the LGBTQ
agenda, right?

717
00:42:05,920 --> 00:42:08,760
Parents telling their children,
no, that's not a healthy way to

718
00:42:08,760 --> 00:42:10,240
live.
That's not a good thing.

719
00:42:11,080 --> 00:42:14,920
And so I I see what it's angling
towards here.

720
00:42:14,920 --> 00:42:20,360
But the problem is, is that in
making this kind of a statement,

721
00:42:20,800 --> 00:42:22,600
just like you said, where does
it end?

722
00:42:23,040 --> 00:42:28,720
Right now, to my knowledge, God
looks on all sin with the same

723
00:42:28,720 --> 00:42:32,600
degree of abhorrence, right?
And so if you're going to look

724
00:42:32,600 --> 00:42:37,000
at adultery as being bad and it
is, right, I, I will say it's

725
00:42:37,000 --> 00:42:39,000
probably one of the worst things
you can do.

726
00:42:39,600 --> 00:42:42,160
But God, he says he doesn't look
at it that way.

727
00:42:42,920 --> 00:42:46,200
He, he abhors all sin, right?
So if you didn't take this

728
00:42:46,200 --> 00:42:50,560
stance with this one sin, to be
fair, you'd have to apply this

729
00:42:50,560 --> 00:42:53,520
over the gamut of commandments
that are broken.

730
00:42:54,800 --> 00:42:59,840
Right, right.
So I'm going to jump down to 55,

731
00:43:00,400 --> 00:43:03,000
OK, We might need Mason to to
censor some of this.

732
00:43:03,000 --> 00:43:04,520
I don't know.
This could get you into some hot

733
00:43:04,520 --> 00:43:06,800
water here, but I'm I'm just
quoting the text, OK?

734
00:43:09,800 --> 00:43:10,560
So.
Verse me.

735
00:43:10,720 --> 00:43:12,280
In hot water bro, I'm used to
it.

736
00:43:12,880 --> 00:43:16,640
All right, so verse 55 says, And
any man who shall make

737
00:43:16,640 --> 00:43:21,960
fornication with a child, but
with the consent of the child

738
00:43:22,280 --> 00:43:24,520
shall be taken outside the wall
and stoned to death.

739
00:43:25,000 --> 00:43:28,040
And the child should be taken
aside and counseled diligently.

740
00:43:28,120 --> 00:43:30,760
And 56 is the same thing, but
just replace man with woman.

741
00:43:32,880 --> 00:43:37,400
And this kind of scary.
I find this a little bit scary

742
00:43:37,400 --> 00:43:42,080
too, but from a different
perspective because what exactly

743
00:43:42,120 --> 00:43:43,800
are they considering a child
here?

744
00:43:47,560 --> 00:43:52,320
I mean, in in traditional, more
tribal societies and even in our

745
00:43:52,320 --> 00:43:54,680
own church, we should go back
100 or so years.

746
00:43:56,640 --> 00:43:59,360
I mean, like even even more
recently, you know, my

747
00:43:59,360 --> 00:44:04,680
grandmother was married at 15.
She lied to my grandfather and

748
00:44:04,680 --> 00:44:11,040
said she was 16 and, and my
grandfather was pretty young guy

749
00:44:11,040 --> 00:44:13,080
too at the time.
And that was just, it was a

750
00:44:13,080 --> 00:44:16,400
different culture.
And we don't live in that world

751
00:44:16,400 --> 00:44:21,920
today, right?
And so, but what is a child to

752
00:44:21,920 --> 00:44:25,760
these people?
Because what I would expect from

753
00:44:25,760 --> 00:44:28,840
a society like this, a child
would be basically, you know,

754
00:44:29,440 --> 00:44:31,120
refubescent.
Right.

755
00:44:32,160 --> 00:44:34,520
And because you're basically
kind of considered an adult and

756
00:44:34,640 --> 00:44:37,120
there's somewhere else down here
where it actually goes into more

757
00:44:37,120 --> 00:44:39,120
details about coming of age
rituals.

758
00:44:39,120 --> 00:44:41,960
And I think that that would
apply, right.

759
00:44:42,000 --> 00:44:45,320
If you got coming of age rituals
on, you know, when a when a girl

760
00:44:46,120 --> 00:44:50,840
reaches her her moon, then
that's kind of the implications

761
00:44:50,840 --> 00:44:52,440
is she's she's becoming an
adult.

762
00:44:53,160 --> 00:44:57,280
Right.
And so I don't understand how a

763
00:44:57,280 --> 00:45:00,880
child can consent to
fornication.

764
00:45:00,960 --> 00:45:02,760
That's kind of a funny thing,
right?

765
00:45:02,800 --> 00:45:07,080
That, and that's where my mind
went, is this idea of consent

766
00:45:07,200 --> 00:45:13,440
for a child, a child by look,
when, when, when I was a young

767
00:45:13,440 --> 00:45:16,800
kid and when I had, well, let me
say this, when I had young

768
00:45:16,800 --> 00:45:21,400
children, if you, if it was
about their consent.

769
00:45:21,840 --> 00:45:24,880
Oh, so you don't want a good,
healthy, nutritious breakfast of

770
00:45:24,880 --> 00:45:28,320
eggs and, you know, bacon or
whatever you want chocolate

771
00:45:28,320 --> 00:45:30,800
cake.
Well, I guess it's your consent.

772
00:45:30,800 --> 00:45:35,400
That's, that's OK.
Children can't make those

773
00:45:35,400 --> 00:45:37,560
decisions.
They have not they're, they're,

774
00:45:37,560 --> 00:45:40,480
they're not mature enough to
make those decisions.

775
00:45:40,480 --> 00:45:43,400
So I'm like you where it said by
consent.

776
00:45:43,520 --> 00:45:45,440
I raise an eyebrow a little bit
at this.

777
00:45:46,440 --> 00:45:48,320
Right.
And then also this idea that the

778
00:45:48,320 --> 00:45:51,920
child should be taken aside and
counseled diligently.

779
00:45:52,680 --> 00:45:55,200
Again, I think maybe the child
should be taken aside and

780
00:45:55,200 --> 00:45:58,560
diligently counseled, you know,
receive diligent counseling.

781
00:45:59,520 --> 00:46:01,360
But is that what they're talking
about?

782
00:46:01,360 --> 00:46:04,400
Because it seems to be more
focused on correcting the

783
00:46:04,400 --> 00:46:09,920
child's wrong behavior.
But if it's a child.

784
00:46:11,160 --> 00:46:12,720
Right.
If it's a child though with an

785
00:46:12,720 --> 00:46:16,240
adult, how is there wrong
behavior on the child's part?

786
00:46:16,320 --> 00:46:22,560
I, I can't comprehend that now,
you know, taking them outside

787
00:46:22,560 --> 00:46:25,440
the wall to be stoned to death.
I, I I'm down with that part.

788
00:46:25,680 --> 00:46:27,080
Right.
Yeah, yeah, it files,

789
00:46:27,080 --> 00:46:30,240
absolutely.
But you know, but what?

790
00:46:30,240 --> 00:46:32,040
Is going on with the children in
this society?

791
00:46:32,040 --> 00:46:34,480
I don't know.
So it elaborates on it further

792
00:46:34,480 --> 00:46:37,720
in 57.
And when children do fornicate

793
00:46:37,720 --> 00:46:41,040
with a man or a woman or with
another child, they shall be

794
00:46:41,040 --> 00:46:43,240
taken aside and counseled
diligently that they might

795
00:46:43,240 --> 00:46:45,520
understand the gravity of their
misconduct.

796
00:46:46,680 --> 00:46:48,520
So well, there we have it,
right.

797
00:46:49,080 --> 00:46:53,280
They're a misconduct, but they
are not punished for their

798
00:46:53,280 --> 00:46:56,920
children.
So again, it, it OK, so they're

799
00:46:56,920 --> 00:46:59,000
not in the age of
accountability.

800
00:47:00,880 --> 00:47:04,040
So these are the actual literal,
literal children.

801
00:47:05,160 --> 00:47:11,320
I, I don't get, I don't get it.
But however, this is this is

802
00:47:11,320 --> 00:47:14,880
where it gets really scary.
However, let also their parents

803
00:47:14,880 --> 00:47:19,680
be taken aside and judged.
Could you imagine some dude you

804
00:47:19,680 --> 00:47:23,040
know, gets with your, gets with
your daughter and and now the

805
00:47:23,040 --> 00:47:25,120
Bishop's calling you into
disciplinary council?

806
00:47:25,680 --> 00:47:28,320
Right, right.
Or they have.

807
00:47:29,120 --> 00:47:30,800
Or they have.
Failed in their duty to teach

808
00:47:30,800 --> 00:47:33,240
their children.
Wherefore it might needs be that

809
00:47:33,240 --> 00:47:35,200
the children ought to be raised
by another.

810
00:47:37,320 --> 00:47:39,600
Let.
Let this be decided by the

811
00:47:39,600 --> 00:47:42,400
Council, for there are
mitigating circumstances in such

812
00:47:42,400 --> 00:47:45,000
cases.
Mitigating circumstances.

813
00:47:48,440 --> 00:47:50,520
This has got some issues to it
doesn't.

814
00:47:51,840 --> 00:47:57,080
It right, and it really so
throughout the text, they

815
00:47:57,080 --> 00:48:03,200
constantly slam the D fight
system of government, but I find

816
00:48:03,200 --> 00:48:06,520
this really scary that their
government is essentially a

817
00:48:06,520 --> 00:48:12,480
council of 12 people that their
decisions is is it that's it.

818
00:48:12,480 --> 00:48:14,640
There's no there's no balancing
of powers.

819
00:48:14,640 --> 00:48:17,800
There's no checks and balances,
separation of powers.

820
00:48:18,120 --> 00:48:22,200
You don't have that.
It's what the council decides.

821
00:48:22,200 --> 00:48:26,080
The council decides and they can
take everything away from you,

822
00:48:26,080 --> 00:48:29,920
including your children, based
off of based off of their

823
00:48:29,920 --> 00:48:31,760
judgement, right.
Yep.

824
00:48:32,400 --> 00:48:36,480
So I also it's been a long time
on this too.

825
00:48:36,480 --> 00:48:39,760
I just thought it was kind of
odd. 555657 It's been a lot of

826
00:48:39,760 --> 00:48:43,920
verses talking about a very kind
of what I would expect in A and

827
00:48:43,920 --> 00:48:46,040
this is supposed to be a Zion
society too, by the way.

828
00:48:46,040 --> 00:48:47,960
That's basically how they
describe themselves.

829
00:48:51,480 --> 00:48:54,360
It seems really particular to
have that kind of a situation.

830
00:48:54,960 --> 00:48:57,840
Yeah.
Needing to be codified in their

831
00:48:57,840 --> 00:48:59,680
laws.
Right.

832
00:49:00,440 --> 00:49:07,560
But regardless, so let me just
just jump down here. 59 Now

833
00:49:07,560 --> 00:49:11,840
there's not been any case of a
man violating a man, but such

834
00:49:11,840 --> 00:49:15,680
things might occur.
When such is the case and proofs

835
00:49:15,680 --> 00:49:18,120
are provided, then all factors
taken outside the wall and

836
00:49:18,120 --> 00:49:23,200
stoned to death.
Now that's not as anti LGBT as

837
00:49:23,200 --> 00:49:25,040
you might think though, because
I'm pretty sure what they mean

838
00:49:25,040 --> 00:49:27,600
by violating here is is
basically rape.

839
00:49:28,880 --> 00:49:33,640
OK.
OK, because it goes on and says,

840
00:49:34,360 --> 00:49:38,280
And behold, there have been some
few cases of unnatural lust and

841
00:49:38,280 --> 00:49:42,000
of the fornication that comes of
it, but this has been mainly

842
00:49:42,000 --> 00:49:45,760
among sojourners.
Nevertheless, when men make

843
00:49:45,760 --> 00:49:49,240
fornication with one another,
they are not cast out from among

844
00:49:49,240 --> 00:49:52,640
the communities of the Nemenhah,
but are counseled not to marry.

845
00:49:53,040 --> 00:49:55,640
Likewise, when women make
fornication with women, they are

846
00:49:55,640 --> 00:49:59,200
kept not cast out from among the
communities, but they are

847
00:49:59,200 --> 00:50:02,440
counseled not to marry, and no
stewardship can be given them.

848
00:50:02,480 --> 00:50:04,960
But they are left to work for
another, to earn their bread,

849
00:50:04,960 --> 00:50:06,960
and this is done in order to
encourage them to leave the

850
00:50:06,960 --> 00:50:10,360
community of their own accord.
For Can a community be built or

851
00:50:10,360 --> 00:50:14,160
stand upon fornication?
Interesting.

852
00:50:16,200 --> 00:50:22,600
Yeah, so it's an interesting way
to deal with certain people,

853
00:50:22,600 --> 00:50:23,760
right?
Right.

854
00:50:24,640 --> 00:50:30,600
And I'll be honest, it doesn't
make sense to me 'cause the way

855
00:50:30,600 --> 00:50:33,960
that they describe the law of
consecration as practiced among

856
00:50:33,960 --> 00:50:36,680
them is you basically have your
stewardship.

857
00:50:37,400 --> 00:50:40,040
That's what you do all day.
That's your job, right?

858
00:50:41,240 --> 00:50:44,520
And you make, you made, let's
say today you made five baskets

859
00:50:45,160 --> 00:50:49,520
and you know, you take two of
them to market and trade for

860
00:50:49,520 --> 00:50:52,520
food for your family, and you
got three leftover and those

861
00:50:52,520 --> 00:50:54,360
ones get given away or
something, right?

862
00:50:56,000 --> 00:51:00,320
So in a society where you
essentially, I mean, maybe

863
00:51:00,320 --> 00:51:02,840
there's money, they don't
mention money, maybe there's

864
00:51:02,840 --> 00:51:04,600
money.
But even if it is because it is

865
00:51:04,600 --> 00:51:07,080
a law of consecration society, I
don't understand how you can

866
00:51:07,080 --> 00:51:09,880
have somebody work for another
person.

867
00:51:11,480 --> 00:51:12,960
Right.
Yeah, that.

868
00:51:13,200 --> 00:51:14,880
Doesn't.
Because yeah.

869
00:51:15,480 --> 00:51:19,760
Like imagine a law of
consecration society as that as

870
00:51:19,760 --> 00:51:22,480
that's described, right.
Let's say that your son ends up

871
00:51:22,480 --> 00:51:30,080
getting in trouble and OK, well,
now your son can't have a

872
00:51:30,080 --> 00:51:33,640
stewardship, right?
So he's got to work for somebody

873
00:51:33,640 --> 00:51:34,960
else, earn his bread.
Well, I'm his father.

874
00:51:34,960 --> 00:51:36,280
I'll.
I'll have them work for me.

875
00:51:37,520 --> 00:51:40,200
Right.
But what is that essentially

876
00:51:40,200 --> 00:51:42,800
doing though?
By working for me, I I am paying

877
00:51:42,800 --> 00:51:44,600
him and what what he needs to
survive.

878
00:51:44,600 --> 00:51:47,680
How's that any different from?
Right.

879
00:51:48,440 --> 00:51:51,800
Having a stewardship because and
and now I'm going to have less

880
00:51:51,800 --> 00:51:54,720
surplus because I'm.
You're feeding me.

881
00:51:55,480 --> 00:51:59,240
I'm feeding him so I don't
really see what's changed.

882
00:51:59,920 --> 00:52:02,240
Yeah.
And I don't see how that would

883
00:52:02,240 --> 00:52:05,200
encourage you to leave the
community any more than you

884
00:52:05,200 --> 00:52:06,600
might might want to leave
anyways.

885
00:52:06,880 --> 00:52:09,760
Right.
Because there's no real

886
00:52:09,760 --> 00:52:13,040
disadvantage to that other than
instead of it calling us,

887
00:52:13,040 --> 00:52:15,120
calling it a stewardship, it's
called a a job.

888
00:52:15,600 --> 00:52:18,520
Gotcha, right.
But it's it's functionally it's

889
00:52:18,520 --> 00:52:20,760
going to be exactly the same,
though there's no way for it not

890
00:52:20,760 --> 00:52:22,680
to be.
Right.

891
00:52:23,640 --> 00:52:26,320
But you know, it goes on to talk
about what needs to be done with

892
00:52:26,320 --> 00:52:28,600
these people.
So such men and women ought to

893
00:52:28,600 --> 00:52:31,920
be taken aside and counseled
diligently to repent, for their

894
00:52:31,920 --> 00:52:34,840
acting out might lead to greater
injury that might take away

895
00:52:34,840 --> 00:52:36,560
their lives.
And such men and women are not

896
00:52:36,560 --> 00:52:38,880
numbered in the counting of the
families of the community.

897
00:52:39,360 --> 00:52:42,920
But let no violence come to them
for they are so they may be able

898
00:52:42,920 --> 00:52:44,800
to repent.
And if they repent, they may yet

899
00:52:44,800 --> 00:52:49,760
be numbered among the families.
So I guess it's odd.

900
00:52:49,760 --> 00:52:53,240
I find it odd again, that this
is a there's a lot of verses on

901
00:52:53,320 --> 00:52:55,480
on what to do about these
situations.

902
00:52:55,480 --> 00:52:58,640
Even this idea that, you know,
let's actually point out they

903
00:52:58,640 --> 00:53:01,600
need to, I mean like the regular
fornicators, the non gay

904
00:53:01,600 --> 00:53:04,920
fornicators don't get this
warning of don't do violence to

905
00:53:04,920 --> 00:53:07,400
them.
It's just.

906
00:53:07,840 --> 00:53:10,760
It's just.
To to the the homosexuals that

907
00:53:10,760 --> 00:53:15,360
this extra thing needs to be put
in there and all these

908
00:53:15,680 --> 00:53:18,480
provisions made for how they're
to be taken care of.

909
00:53:18,480 --> 00:53:20,720
It's just weird.
It's it's a weird, it seems like

910
00:53:20,720 --> 00:53:24,160
a weird fixation to me.
So, so it's if, if, if I'm

911
00:53:24,160 --> 00:53:27,880
understanding correctly, right
based off what you've read, if,

912
00:53:27,920 --> 00:53:33,920
if an adult male was to engage
in inappropriate sexual conduct

913
00:53:34,000 --> 00:53:40,000
with a, a, a woman who's not his
wife of legal age, they would

914
00:53:40,000 --> 00:53:43,040
get stoned to death and, and
exiled or something like that.

915
00:53:43,360 --> 00:53:44,680
But homosexuals?
I can't.

916
00:53:45,320 --> 00:53:47,960
Remember it's something like
that because it was in there

917
00:53:47,960 --> 00:53:49,520
further up.
I I didn't include it.

918
00:53:49,680 --> 00:53:51,360
It's very short though.
You're fine.

919
00:53:51,800 --> 00:53:57,440
But the the the people who are
engaging in a homosexual

920
00:53:57,440 --> 00:54:00,600
lifestyle, they get preferential
treatment here.

921
00:54:01,080 --> 00:54:03,560
They get counseled.
Right.

922
00:54:03,560 --> 00:54:05,800
They get counseled, but they
don't, they're not required to

923
00:54:05,800 --> 00:54:07,480
repent of it.
Interesting.

924
00:54:07,480 --> 00:54:09,920
I mean, I don't see anything in
here preventing them from

925
00:54:09,920 --> 00:54:13,400
continuing the lifestyle.
It's just they call their

926
00:54:13,400 --> 00:54:16,560
stewardship a job instead.
Maybe they've got less freedom

927
00:54:16,560 --> 00:54:21,000
as to what that job is, but
either way, it's we know, we

928
00:54:21,000 --> 00:54:24,320
hope we can drive them out, but
we're not to persecute them.

929
00:54:25,560 --> 00:54:29,720
It doesn't make sense to me.
No, no, me neither.

930
00:54:30,800 --> 00:54:34,800
And I'm going to jump down here
again here at 87.

931
00:54:35,960 --> 00:54:39,200
So this is basically their
philosophy on on law.

932
00:54:40,000 --> 00:54:43,680
Now, in the experience of our
people, because we have founded

933
00:54:43,680 --> 00:54:47,120
ourselves upon these simple
precepts, we find that we do not

934
00:54:47,120 --> 00:54:50,640
need a larger body of law.
For when there are complaints or

935
00:54:50,640 --> 00:54:54,000
offenses of lesser nature, we do
insist that the party settle the

936
00:54:54,000 --> 00:54:58,640
matter between them privately,
privately, And this is wisdom.

937
00:54:58,640 --> 00:55:00,640
For every matter of lesser
import ought to be settled in

938
00:55:00,640 --> 00:55:03,000
this matter to reserve peace
between neighbors.

939
00:55:05,000 --> 00:55:06,360
OK.
I think that's a great idea in

940
00:55:06,360 --> 00:55:08,760
practice.
I mean, in theory.

941
00:55:08,920 --> 00:55:11,360
That's a great idea in theory.
In theory, yeah.

942
00:55:11,360 --> 00:55:13,680
I mean, that's, that's how we
hope it all get done.

943
00:55:14,120 --> 00:55:17,160
But it doesn't take into account
human nature, right?

944
00:55:18,160 --> 00:55:20,320
Right.
I've seen a lot of people as a

945
00:55:20,320 --> 00:55:24,080
surveyor who will go to war with
their neighbor over half a foot.

946
00:55:24,520 --> 00:55:28,880
Right.
And and it's only the courts.

947
00:55:28,920 --> 00:55:32,520
The reasons for people to get
upset with each other and harass

948
00:55:32,520 --> 00:55:37,120
each other and.
Right, The fact that there are

949
00:55:37,120 --> 00:55:42,640
courts available today is why we
don't see, you know, many more

950
00:55:42,640 --> 00:55:45,720
examples of the Hatfields and
Mccoys running around, right?

951
00:55:46,000 --> 00:55:49,520
We are settling these a court of
law without violence.

952
00:55:50,720 --> 00:55:52,200
Right.
Well, you know, here's a simple

953
00:55:52,200 --> 00:55:53,640
example.
Squatters, What if, what if

954
00:55:53,640 --> 00:55:56,000
somebody in the community is
like, oh, that guy's got a, a

955
00:55:56,280 --> 00:56:00,360
nice big barn over there.
I want that barn for my stuff.

956
00:56:00,360 --> 00:56:03,160
And they just start squatting.
Yeah.

957
00:56:04,160 --> 00:56:05,880
What do you do?
Can you have them removed?

958
00:56:06,000 --> 00:56:08,120
There's also there's no police
by the way either.

959
00:56:08,120 --> 00:56:12,080
They don't need them later.
They end up trying out the

960
00:56:12,080 --> 00:56:15,160
police system and it and the
police kind of turn on the

961
00:56:15,160 --> 00:56:17,080
people.
And so it's kind of toes this

962
00:56:17,080 --> 00:56:21,240
kind of defund the police, anti
police rhetoric as well.

963
00:56:21,360 --> 00:56:23,040
I was.
Just going to say, if I'm not

964
00:56:23,040 --> 00:56:25,880
mistaken a couple big cities
tried that here not too long ago

965
00:56:25,920 --> 00:56:28,440
and it has not panned out well.
No it.

966
00:56:28,960 --> 00:56:32,360
Hasn't and that don't get me
wrong, police can definitely be

967
00:56:32,360 --> 00:56:35,640
abusive, but I don't think it's
AI, don't think it's a corrupt

968
00:56:35,640 --> 00:56:38,440
institution inherently.
No, me neither.

969
00:56:41,080 --> 00:56:46,520
But so right, So they don't need
a larger body of law.

970
00:56:46,520 --> 00:56:50,240
What if you got squatters?
Just work it out.

971
00:56:50,240 --> 00:56:51,840
Just work it out.
Just work it out.

972
00:56:51,840 --> 00:56:54,480
And if it can't be worked out,
then you got to take it to the

973
00:56:54,480 --> 00:56:57,040
council, right?
Right.

974
00:56:57,160 --> 00:56:58,400
But here's the thing they don't
have.

975
00:56:58,400 --> 00:57:00,040
They're saying they don't have a
large body of laws.

976
00:57:00,040 --> 00:57:02,080
I didn't notice any laws in here
against squatting.

977
00:57:04,000 --> 00:57:07,200
So since that's not written in
the law, the Council is going to

978
00:57:07,200 --> 00:57:08,760
have to decide.
Right.

979
00:57:09,840 --> 00:57:13,400
Which?
Depending on how that council

980
00:57:13,400 --> 00:57:19,040
decides, you know, squatting is
illegal or legal, you don't

981
00:57:19,040 --> 00:57:21,680
really know because there is no
law.

982
00:57:21,960 --> 00:57:25,280
You don't really know.
And I don't, I don't understand

983
00:57:25,280 --> 00:57:27,720
how, I don't think that really
works in a society.

984
00:57:28,080 --> 00:57:31,160
No.
Well, I mean, it can work, but

985
00:57:31,160 --> 00:57:33,560
it's called tyranny, right?
And maybe you've got a

986
00:57:33,560 --> 00:57:35,920
benevolent tyrant, but
nonetheless, it's tyranny.

987
00:57:36,320 --> 00:57:38,360
Right.
They'll make up the rules as

988
00:57:38,360 --> 00:57:40,160
they go.
Absolutely.

989
00:57:42,120 --> 00:57:45,680
And so they go on and behold,
needing no greater body of law,

990
00:57:45,680 --> 00:57:48,720
we find no need for bodies of
lawyers and legalists either.

991
00:57:49,960 --> 00:57:54,160
Which again, I, I, I, I
recognize that in the Book of

992
00:57:54,160 --> 00:58:00,720
Mormon, lawyers and judges get
kind of a bad rap In today's

993
00:58:00,720 --> 00:58:03,760
world.
They do as well.

994
00:58:04,360 --> 00:58:06,240
Right, but I.
Don't think they're inherently

995
00:58:06,240 --> 00:58:10,360
corrupt institution either and I
think it's depends on the

996
00:58:10,360 --> 00:58:14,280
individuals and what it is that
they're representing legally,

997
00:58:14,280 --> 00:58:17,680
right?
What what this seems to be

998
00:58:17,680 --> 00:58:23,320
espousing for here is something
that's the complete opposite of

999
00:58:23,320 --> 00:58:27,560
what Western civilization has
come to understand, right.

1000
00:58:27,840 --> 00:58:30,480
And when I say Western
civilization, I'm not talking

1001
00:58:30,480 --> 00:58:33,720
just about America.
I'm talking about the broader

1002
00:58:33,720 --> 00:58:38,920
Judeo-christian ethic that has
provided some stability over the

1003
00:58:38,920 --> 00:58:43,560
years, right?
And, and, and what I see here is

1004
00:58:43,560 --> 00:58:46,720
that the law is not codified,
right?

1005
00:58:46,880 --> 00:58:51,760
The law is given through these
12 elders or whoever's governing

1006
00:58:51,760 --> 00:58:57,160
the place, right?
And what that does is if your

1007
00:58:57,160 --> 00:59:02,000
laws are not codified somehow,
well, you don't have a nation of

1008
00:59:02,000 --> 00:59:06,760
laws, then you have a nation of
men, because those men's

1009
00:59:06,760 --> 00:59:14,120
opinions can change that
council's opinion can, can move.

1010
00:59:14,320 --> 00:59:19,720
There's no consistency there.
Even within Zion itself, there

1011
00:59:19,720 --> 00:59:22,720
is a code to that, right?
We can find that in the Doctrine

1012
00:59:22,720 --> 00:59:25,000
and Covenants.
Why is it codified?

1013
00:59:25,160 --> 00:59:29,960
So that nobody else will ever
become a government of man

1014
00:59:30,120 --> 00:59:34,560
inside of Zion, right?
Zion understand just like the

1015
00:59:34,560 --> 00:59:38,840
United States does and other
nations based off a a legal

1016
00:59:38,840 --> 00:59:45,160
code, and without that code all
bets are off the table in terms

1017
00:59:45,160 --> 00:59:47,720
of preserving rights.
Right.

1018
00:59:47,720 --> 00:59:50,040
So I think one of the problems
here it's it's it's a literal

1019
00:59:50,040 --> 00:59:52,080
merger of government and
religion.

1020
00:59:52,400 --> 00:59:54,800
Yep.
And that becomes a problem

1021
00:59:54,800 --> 00:59:59,280
because when it comes to when it
comes to religion and God's

1022
00:59:59,280 --> 01:00:03,080
laws, right, that can be a very
personal thing.

1023
01:00:05,120 --> 01:00:09,720
Yep.
And what you might choose, or

1024
01:00:09,720 --> 01:00:13,200
what in you and your heart feels
is wrong, somebody else might

1025
01:00:13,200 --> 01:00:16,200
not.
Right, So what?

1026
01:00:16,200 --> 01:00:18,720
And oh, sorry, I didn't mean to
cut you off from my head.

1027
01:00:18,920 --> 01:00:22,080
But the legal and so therefore,
you know, a lot of times we're

1028
01:00:22,080 --> 01:00:26,240
told to just rely on the spirit
in religion to as far as God's

1029
01:00:26,240 --> 01:00:30,080
laws goes, as far as obeying
God, it's in order to obey God,

1030
01:00:30,160 --> 01:00:34,080
you know, listen to God and God
codifies some laws, but he's

1031
01:00:34,080 --> 01:00:36,920
also explained that there's
diverse ways that men can sin

1032
01:00:37,160 --> 01:00:42,360
and we can't number them all.
So you kind of got to go by

1033
01:00:42,360 --> 01:00:44,880
that.
But when it comes to government.

1034
01:00:46,080 --> 01:00:48,840
It's it's not.
Really, government, if you don't

1035
01:00:48,840 --> 01:00:52,960
codify the law, it has to be
spelled out so people know, so

1036
01:00:52,960 --> 01:00:56,360
that they can know by what
standard they're going to be

1037
01:00:56,360 --> 01:00:58,840
held accountable.
If you don't teach that

1038
01:00:58,840 --> 01:01:03,080
standard, then you don't know.
And saying, well, religion is

1039
01:01:03,080 --> 01:01:07,320
going to solve that problem.
I I I find that again

1040
01:01:07,400 --> 01:01:13,160
potentially disturbing because I
guess I find it because I I

1041
01:01:13,160 --> 01:01:18,960
doubt, I have doubts that women
electing politicians will

1042
01:01:18,960 --> 01:01:21,200
somehow give us perfect
politicians.

1043
01:01:21,440 --> 01:01:24,440
Yeah, me too.
Let me ask you, let let me push

1044
01:01:24,440 --> 01:01:26,520
back for just a minute because
I'm sure there's someone out

1045
01:01:26,520 --> 01:01:30,920
there thinking this right now
where we talk about religion and

1046
01:01:30,920 --> 01:01:32,520
government being kind of
separate.

1047
01:01:33,760 --> 01:01:40,480
What about the Council of 50,
then, with Joseph Smith it,

1048
01:01:40,880 --> 01:01:43,360
well, it's kind of a mingling of
the two, right?

1049
01:01:44,600 --> 01:01:48,840
A mingling of the two, but this
the ideal standard for Zion.

1050
01:01:49,200 --> 01:01:51,240
Right.
Is that people will be able to

1051
01:01:51,280 --> 01:01:54,640
hold to any religious belief
they want within Zion.

1052
01:01:54,960 --> 01:01:56,960
Yep.
If it basically, if you're going

1053
01:01:56,960 --> 01:01:59,560
to obey the laws of Zion, you
get the blessings of Zion and

1054
01:01:59,560 --> 01:02:02,360
you can believe whatever you
want, you have freedom of

1055
01:02:02,360 --> 01:02:04,400
religion.
That's inherent, right?

1056
01:02:04,720 --> 01:02:06,840
And I was going to get in this
later, but in the Book of

1057
01:02:06,840 --> 01:02:09,680
Mormon, right, we get an example
of some of their legal code as

1058
01:02:09,680 --> 01:02:12,520
well with the Antichrist.
I can't remember which one it

1059
01:02:12,520 --> 01:02:14,120
was.
Is it Corehor?

1060
01:02:14,880 --> 01:02:18,280
I think it was Corehor.
Not the one that that Jacob

1061
01:02:18,280 --> 01:02:21,160
deals with, but the one Alma
deals with, right.

1062
01:02:21,160 --> 01:02:22,320
And that's Corehor.
Yep.

1063
01:02:23,000 --> 01:02:27,520
Yeah.
So Corehor was preaching a false

1064
01:02:27,520 --> 01:02:32,800
doctrine that was basically he's
preaching, you know, it's kind

1065
01:02:32,800 --> 01:02:36,360
of a Darwinist, you know,
survival of the fittest type of,

1066
01:02:36,600 --> 01:02:39,600
of an idea, right, Right.
And the people didn't like it.

1067
01:02:40,920 --> 01:02:43,440
And so they they bound him up
and they took him to their

1068
01:02:43,440 --> 01:02:46,520
government.
So this guy's preaching evil

1069
01:02:46,520 --> 01:02:49,440
things, right?
And the governor's like, well,

1070
01:02:49,440 --> 01:02:54,280
he's not breaking a law, right
to do because because you know,

1071
01:02:54,320 --> 01:02:57,720
there's a law against lying, but
there's no law against a man's

1072
01:02:57,720 --> 01:03:01,400
belief, right?
So, and how do you know whether

1073
01:03:01,400 --> 01:03:03,680
he really, truly believes it or
not?

1074
01:03:04,760 --> 01:03:07,760
Right.
And you know, we, we actually

1075
01:03:07,760 --> 01:03:10,280
find out he did believe it,
right?

1076
01:03:10,280 --> 01:03:12,720
Ultimately, he says he was
deceived by an Angel of life.

1077
01:03:12,720 --> 01:03:15,320
But that means he was deceived.
He did believe it.

1078
01:03:15,680 --> 01:03:20,160
Yep.
And so there's a clear

1079
01:03:20,240 --> 01:03:23,880
understanding in in the Nephite
society, right, of where that

1080
01:03:23,880 --> 01:03:27,680
line is what will get you in
trouble with the government and

1081
01:03:27,680 --> 01:03:29,440
what won't.
Right.

1082
01:03:30,120 --> 01:03:33,200
And I believe it's from that
encounter that the Nephites also

1083
01:03:33,200 --> 01:03:37,760
start instituting
excommunication in the church.

1084
01:03:37,760 --> 01:03:40,280
What do we do with people who
preach false doctrines?

1085
01:03:41,000 --> 01:03:43,840
You don't imprison them, you
don't cast them out, you don't

1086
01:03:43,840 --> 01:03:47,240
stone them US communicate them
from the church, but they still

1087
01:03:47,240 --> 01:03:54,680
have a a God-given right Yeah.
To believe what they want to

1088
01:03:54,680 --> 01:03:56,960
believe.
And the Nephites don't try to

1089
01:03:56,960 --> 01:03:59,200
coerce that.
Absolutely.

1090
01:04:01,400 --> 01:04:05,160
So yeah.
So anyway, I mean, does that ask

1091
01:04:05,160 --> 01:04:07,000
you?
So as far as Council of 50 goes,

1092
01:04:07,560 --> 01:04:09,920
yeah, the council of 50 is
supposed to be setting a

1093
01:04:09,920 --> 01:04:13,840
standard.
Whereas what we're seeing here

1094
01:04:13,840 --> 01:04:17,120
is it's it's the church court is
the civil, is the civil.

1095
01:04:17,120 --> 01:04:22,480
Court, right, Kind of kind of
something you'd expect to see in

1096
01:04:22,480 --> 01:04:25,240
like Sharia law or something.
Right.

1097
01:04:25,360 --> 01:04:29,760
Yeah, exactly kind of kind of
kind of thing you see in Islam

1098
01:04:30,000 --> 01:04:33,520
actually.
But according to them, you know

1099
01:04:33,520 --> 01:04:36,280
wherefore, because we do
constrain our body of law to

1100
01:04:36,280 --> 01:04:38,880
that which Lord has given us, we
have no need of great bodies of

1101
01:04:38,880 --> 01:04:41,520
lawyers and judges.
A great blessing to us.

1102
01:04:45,280 --> 01:04:49,720
OK, interesting.
Now, to be fair, there is one

1103
01:04:49,720 --> 01:04:53,520
potential check on this Council.
OK.

1104
01:04:53,640 --> 01:04:56,360
Basically, they're saying that
they don't really have problems.

1105
01:04:56,680 --> 01:05:03,160
However, let's see when there's
a dispute.

1106
01:05:03,160 --> 01:05:08,000
Basically the council decides,
but sometimes people disagree

1107
01:05:08,000 --> 01:05:12,360
with the council's decision and
when this happens basically this

1108
01:05:12,360 --> 01:05:15,440
becomes a new injury.
Basically, by doubting the

1109
01:05:15,440 --> 01:05:21,560
Council of judging you
incorrectly, you have committed

1110
01:05:21,560 --> 01:05:24,560
a new crime.
By questioning Council.

1111
01:05:25,240 --> 01:05:28,560
By questioning the council
because it's like it's, it's a

1112
01:05:28,560 --> 01:05:31,640
new injury on the community as a
whole and it's taken by the

1113
01:05:31,640 --> 01:05:35,960
people in assembly.
So now all of the people, it's,

1114
01:05:36,040 --> 01:05:40,280
it's a, now it's a democratic,
it's a jury of of all of your

1115
01:05:40,280 --> 01:05:46,640
peers and we've devolved into
pure democracy.

1116
01:05:47,480 --> 01:05:51,600
Well, oh, that, that one is
loaded with problems, Justin.

1117
01:05:51,960 --> 01:05:56,640
Like if you can't question your
government, you're in trouble,

1118
01:05:57,800 --> 01:05:58,960
right.
You're in trouble.

1119
01:05:58,960 --> 01:06:02,720
I think so.
I mean, it's at that point you

1120
01:06:02,720 --> 01:06:07,640
don't have liberty.
You have, you have tyranny,

1121
01:06:07,880 --> 01:06:12,280
right?
I've always said one of the best

1122
01:06:12,280 --> 01:06:16,720
ways to judge where a society is
with, with, with liberty and

1123
01:06:16,720 --> 01:06:20,000
freedom is can you make fun of
your leaders?

1124
01:06:21,200 --> 01:06:23,240
Can you question your leaders?
If you can't do those two

1125
01:06:23,240 --> 01:06:26,840
things, your your liberty's
probably not very good, right?

1126
01:06:26,840 --> 01:06:28,680
Yeah, you're, you're probably
suffering there.

1127
01:06:29,640 --> 01:06:32,640
Right.
And so basically it turned into

1128
01:06:32,640 --> 01:06:35,680
a new, a new lawsuit, right,
Right.

1129
01:06:35,680 --> 01:06:38,560
This time, this time it's you
versus the Council.

1130
01:06:40,640 --> 01:06:43,560
Yeah.
No, because it's not about the

1131
01:06:43,560 --> 01:06:44,840
old case.
It says that right there.

1132
01:06:44,880 --> 01:06:47,280
You know, it is not a rehearsing
of the original dispute, but

1133
01:06:47,280 --> 01:06:51,240
rather it is a new case because
you're disagreeing with what the

1134
01:06:51,240 --> 01:06:58,280
council says.
And, you know, saw some really

1135
01:06:58,280 --> 01:07:02,040
interesting YouTube videos of
these Jehovah Witness

1136
01:07:02,040 --> 01:07:04,520
Disciplinary Council training
videos.

1137
01:07:06,800 --> 01:07:09,360
And they kind of had a very
similar thing where, you know,

1138
01:07:09,760 --> 01:07:13,200
some guy gets judged out and
this was a role play of their

1139
01:07:13,200 --> 01:07:16,360
own right, their own video and a
role play on how their people

1140
01:07:16,360 --> 01:07:19,080
are supposed to do things.
But some guy gets gets kicked

1141
01:07:19,080 --> 01:07:22,840
out and he disagrees and he
wants to appeal.

1142
01:07:23,600 --> 01:07:28,600
And the appeal now is suddenly
is like by by appealing, you're

1143
01:07:28,600 --> 01:07:33,480
basically saying that it's an
attack on the people who judged

1144
01:07:33,480 --> 01:07:35,360
you.
And then they have a new case

1145
01:07:36,040 --> 01:07:38,080
where they don't even look at
anything with the old stuff.

1146
01:07:38,080 --> 01:07:41,960
They're just looking at, well,
are these counselors good up

1147
01:07:42,400 --> 01:07:47,280
worthy men who should be trusted
or are they evil men?

1148
01:07:47,280 --> 01:07:50,520
Because now that now you've got
to, in order to defend yourself

1149
01:07:51,120 --> 01:07:54,160
through an appeals process, you
know how have to come up with,

1150
01:07:54,760 --> 01:07:56,440
you know, prove your
righteousness against this

1151
01:07:56,440 --> 01:07:58,120
council.
Right.

1152
01:07:59,680 --> 01:08:01,720
Which is.
Which is wildly problematic.

1153
01:08:02,280 --> 01:08:04,120
It's wild.
Yeah.

1154
01:08:05,120 --> 01:08:08,640
So anyway, yeah, so that's
that's the legal government

1155
01:08:08,640 --> 01:08:10,120
system.
And I, again, I bring it up

1156
01:08:10,120 --> 01:08:13,320
because I think this is
completely incompatible with

1157
01:08:14,160 --> 01:08:16,560
what we're taught in doctoring
covenants about how our

1158
01:08:16,560 --> 01:08:18,840
government was organized,
because this is completely

1159
01:08:19,120 --> 01:08:21,960
violates the principle.
This is not a constitutional

1160
01:08:21,960 --> 01:08:26,840
government where the
Constitution is above the

1161
01:08:26,840 --> 01:08:30,359
governors and the governors are
constrained by the Constitution.

1162
01:08:30,359 --> 01:08:33,720
This is a system where it's it's
essentially a benevolent

1163
01:08:33,720 --> 01:08:36,560
tyranny.
The the the Council is the

1164
01:08:36,560 --> 01:08:38,560
Constitution.
Right.

1165
01:08:39,720 --> 01:08:42,720
Yep.
The only higher, higher law than

1166
01:08:42,720 --> 01:08:45,279
that is you're judging the the
council themselves.

1167
01:08:45,600 --> 01:08:50,319
Right.
So let's switch gears here,

1168
01:08:50,319 --> 01:08:51,840
though I know there's a lot to
cover.

1169
01:08:52,200 --> 01:08:56,439
So we can say that that the law
portion of this attested to in

1170
01:08:56,439 --> 01:08:59,600
this record does not fit the
Doctrine and Covenants we

1171
01:08:59,600 --> 01:09:00,840
showed.
It doesn't fit the Book of

1172
01:09:00,840 --> 01:09:04,439
Mormon, so it doesn't really fit
with the Restoration or

1173
01:09:04,439 --> 01:09:06,520
Mormonism.
Right.

1174
01:09:06,520 --> 01:09:09,479
Joseph Smith's teaching on what
Zion is intended to be and how

1175
01:09:09,479 --> 01:09:11,880
it's supposed to operate, the
Council of 50, it doesn't really

1176
01:09:12,120 --> 01:09:13,600
fit with any of that.
OK.

1177
01:09:14,720 --> 01:09:18,160
But maybe this is just a one off
example, but I do know that this

1178
01:09:18,279 --> 01:09:23,640
this idea is repeated throughout
the text as why they are more

1179
01:09:23,640 --> 01:09:26,840
righteous than the Nephites and
why the Nephites always struggle

1180
01:09:26,840 --> 01:09:30,279
and they don't because of
basically their legal, their

1181
01:09:30,279 --> 01:09:35,200
government structure and legal
system, and because of, well, a

1182
01:09:35,240 --> 01:09:37,720
few other interesting instances.
Let's bring up one other big

1183
01:09:37,720 --> 01:09:40,479
differences.
Female Priesthood.

1184
01:09:42,040 --> 01:09:46,120
OK.
So this is volume one second

1185
01:09:46,560 --> 01:09:49,479
Shemwell.
This is also this is this

1186
01:09:49,479 --> 01:09:52,680
Shemwell is essentially Samuel
the Lamanite.

1187
01:09:53,880 --> 01:09:57,280
So apparently Samuel the
Lamanite was not a Lamanite, he

1188
01:09:57,280 --> 01:10:04,880
was an Emming ha and he went
down there and and called the

1189
01:10:05,000 --> 01:10:08,000
called the Nephites to
repentance and then went back up

1190
01:10:08,000 --> 01:10:09,920
north again where he was a great
prophet.

1191
01:10:10,440 --> 01:10:12,960
And I'm supposed to just take
this, take their word for it

1192
01:10:12,960 --> 01:10:16,440
over Joseph Smith's?
Well, I mean, I don't think

1193
01:10:16,440 --> 01:10:19,760
Joseph Smith didn't.
Well, I, I guess the question is

1194
01:10:19,760 --> 01:10:21,560
he's called a Lamanite in the
Book of Mormon, right?

1195
01:10:21,560 --> 01:10:23,400
Not in Memenhide.
Right.

1196
01:10:23,520 --> 01:10:26,680
Yeah, that's what I'm saying.
In that regards, yes, yes, but

1197
01:10:26,680 --> 01:10:29,240
I, I believe.
Also wasn't quite as inspired as

1198
01:10:29,240 --> 01:10:31,720
what he should have been,
according to the text here.

1199
01:10:32,320 --> 01:10:35,400
Well, the an argument against
that could be that there is a

1200
01:10:35,400 --> 01:10:37,680
place in the text where it says
that the knee fights are kind of

1201
01:10:37,680 --> 01:10:41,320
racist and they call everybody
who's dark skinned Elena night.

1202
01:10:41,760 --> 01:10:42,960
OK.
All right.

1203
01:10:42,960 --> 01:10:46,320
Fair enough.
So either that or just the knee

1204
01:10:46,320 --> 01:10:48,080
fights are racist.
OK.

1205
01:10:48,720 --> 01:10:51,320
All right.
Can't tell a Korean from a

1206
01:10:51,320 --> 01:10:53,080
Japanese person, that's all the
same.

1207
01:10:53,680 --> 01:10:55,920
Right.
Gotcha.

1208
01:10:56,760 --> 01:10:58,480
There's evil knee fights.
Right.

1209
01:10:59,280 --> 01:11:05,080
Oh, anyways, this is Samuel the
Lamanite here teaching us second

1210
01:11:05,080 --> 01:11:07,440
Sam.
So this is after he went to the

1211
01:11:07,480 --> 01:11:09,560
to the knee fights.
So this would be an older Samuel

1212
01:11:09,560 --> 01:11:11,160
the Lamanite.
OK.

1213
01:11:12,880 --> 01:11:18,520
And I also believe yes.
OK, let me clarify this.

1214
01:11:18,520 --> 01:11:20,320
This is there's a can of worms
here.

1215
01:11:21,680 --> 01:11:22,920
Maybe I shouldn't have gone here
yet.

1216
01:11:24,760 --> 01:11:30,120
No, this is OK.
So this is an accounting of

1217
01:11:30,120 --> 01:11:34,680
Christ's visitation to a city
that was founded by Corryanton.

1218
01:11:35,760 --> 01:11:38,120
OK.
The same Corryanton who's son

1219
01:11:38,120 --> 01:11:41,600
of, you know, the third son of
Alma at Corryanton.

1220
01:11:42,040 --> 01:11:45,440
So he ends up north in the Great
Lakes area, founds this great

1221
01:11:45,440 --> 01:11:53,240
Kingdom of Corryanton and and
Christ visits them after he

1222
01:11:53,240 --> 01:11:57,200
visits the Nephites, he visits
visits the Nemenha in the city

1223
01:11:57,200 --> 01:12:01,640
of Mentana and then he visits
them over in Corry Anton Ton or

1224
01:12:01,640 --> 01:12:02,920
something.
I can't remember the name of the

1225
01:12:02,920 --> 01:12:06,720
city, but Corry Anton city and
Corry Anton's gone.

1226
01:12:06,720 --> 01:12:09,840
But I guess, well, let's just
read this.

1227
01:12:09,840 --> 01:12:13,200
So in that day he came amongst
us, meaning he mean Christ.

1228
01:12:14,080 --> 01:12:16,800
And it was not long after the
signs of his death had abated.

1229
01:12:17,440 --> 01:12:19,680
We did according to the things
we have been commanded in the

1230
01:12:19,680 --> 01:12:22,080
visions and revelations that
many had received during the

1231
01:12:22,080 --> 01:12:26,040
days of darkness.
Behold, we did greet him as our

1232
01:12:26,040 --> 01:12:29,440
King and our high priest, and I
did make him, and I did take him

1233
01:12:29,440 --> 01:12:32,280
by the hand, and I did lead him
to the seat of the high priest.

1234
01:12:33,120 --> 01:12:35,480
So this is Christ's visitation
to these people.

1235
01:12:36,640 --> 01:12:41,480
So he shows up, and he takes him
to the seat of the high priest.

1236
01:12:42,000 --> 01:12:45,320
And I did place him, and I
placed upon him the robes of the

1237
01:12:45,320 --> 01:12:47,480
high priest, and he did sit upon
the seat.

1238
01:12:47,920 --> 01:12:52,040
And behold, I did declare to all
the people that this was the

1239
01:12:52,040 --> 01:12:55,280
Christ, the Son of the living
God, He who was killed by his

1240
01:12:55,280 --> 01:12:59,040
own, and he who had paid the
utmost price for our redemption,

1241
01:12:59,080 --> 01:13:01,720
and who had sealed it with the
sacrifice most dear, and the

1242
01:13:01,720 --> 01:13:03,920
people that gather to the temple
to see him and to hear his

1243
01:13:03,920 --> 01:13:10,080
words.
And behold my son Corry Anton,

1244
01:13:10,960 --> 01:13:13,560
not not the Corry Anton of Alma.
This is a different Corry Anton.

1245
01:13:14,120 --> 01:13:18,680
OK, my son Corry Anton did
approach the seat and bowing

1246
01:13:18,680 --> 01:13:21,720
himself down before the Lord, he
did wash his feet and hands and

1247
01:13:21,720 --> 01:13:25,080
head, and he did anoint him with
oil most precious.

1248
01:13:25,520 --> 01:13:28,240
And when he had done this, the
Lord did place his hands upon

1249
01:13:28,240 --> 01:13:30,880
the head of Corry Anton and
bless him and bid him arise.

1250
01:13:32,120 --> 01:13:37,840
So this is an an interesting
twist right in the Book of

1251
01:13:37,840 --> 01:13:41,600
Mormon and then and the New
Testament, we've got Christ, you

1252
01:13:41,600 --> 01:13:43,320
know, washing his disciples
feet.

1253
01:13:44,440 --> 01:13:47,960
And here we've got the reverse
happening.

1254
01:13:49,440 --> 01:13:53,520
And so and then right after that
and behold Possibel and this is

1255
01:13:53,520 --> 01:13:56,600
Coranton's wife.
So the guy who just washed his

1256
01:13:56,600 --> 01:14:01,560
feet approached also the seat
and bowed herself down before

1257
01:14:01,560 --> 01:14:04,040
the Lord.
And she did break bread, and

1258
01:14:04,040 --> 01:14:08,200
blessed it, as she had been
taught to do upon the way, and

1259
01:14:08,200 --> 01:14:10,440
she offered it to the Lord.
And he did eat.

1260
01:14:10,480 --> 01:14:14,200
And she did pour out pure wine
into a a grail, and blessed it.

1261
01:14:14,200 --> 01:14:16,600
And she had as she had been
taught to do on the way, And she

1262
01:14:16,600 --> 01:14:18,800
offered it to the Lord.
And he did drink.

1263
01:14:19,360 --> 01:14:21,720
And when this was done, he took
her by the hand, and a rose from

1264
01:14:21,720 --> 01:14:23,120
the seat.
And he said unto the hearing of

1265
01:14:23,120 --> 01:14:27,920
all the people gathered there,
Behold, this is well what these

1266
01:14:27,920 --> 01:14:30,120
two have done unto me.
For they did approach me on the

1267
01:14:30,120 --> 01:14:31,960
way.
They did seek my face, and I did

1268
01:14:31,960 --> 01:14:34,080
acknowledge them.
And behold, I did teach them

1269
01:14:34,080 --> 01:14:37,240
these things upon the way.
When I did show myself unto them

1270
01:14:37,240 --> 01:14:40,920
who sought me, let them be in a
sample unto all those who would

1271
01:14:40,920 --> 01:14:43,040
come unto me, and diligently
seek me.

1272
01:14:43,040 --> 01:14:44,880
Unto such shall I give my
Kingdom.

1273
01:14:44,880 --> 01:14:47,040
Yeah, of such shall I make up my
jewels.

1274
01:14:49,160 --> 01:14:56,480
So, so, so she administers the
sacrament.

1275
01:14:57,960 --> 01:15:00,720
Right.
Not just administer the

1276
01:15:00,720 --> 01:15:03,480
sacrament she she she busted,
but she also served the

1277
01:15:03,480 --> 01:15:06,440
sacrament to Christ.
Right.

1278
01:15:07,160 --> 01:15:12,720
Is that considered cannibalism?
That's that's pretty funny.

1279
01:15:16,160 --> 01:15:22,200
I just, I don't understand why.
Why you would Christ?

1280
01:15:22,640 --> 01:15:24,600
Christ administers the sacrament
to us.

1281
01:15:24,720 --> 01:15:27,880
Right.
And Christ teaches us to

1282
01:15:27,880 --> 01:15:32,400
administer unto each other.
It seems really odd to

1283
01:15:32,800 --> 01:15:36,400
administer the the sacrament to
Christ as if he would need

1284
01:15:36,400 --> 01:15:38,440
somebody to administer that for
him.

1285
01:15:40,480 --> 01:15:42,920
You know, the Book of Mormon
explains why Christ was

1286
01:15:42,920 --> 01:15:46,000
baptized.
It was necessary to fulfill all

1287
01:15:46,000 --> 01:15:49,880
righteousness, right?
But I don't think Christ needs

1288
01:15:49,880 --> 01:15:53,400
to renew that covenant because I
don't think he ever broke it.

1289
01:15:54,560 --> 01:15:58,640
Right.
So I I'm kind of confused as to

1290
01:15:58,720 --> 01:16:03,400
what kind of a a theology you
have here where there's a need

1291
01:16:03,400 --> 01:16:06,520
for Christ to be served the
sacrament.

1292
01:16:08,040 --> 01:16:11,720
Right.
It's also a little odd to me

1293
01:16:12,680 --> 01:16:15,480
that, you know, Christ would
coordinate this with them kind

1294
01:16:15,480 --> 01:16:21,560
of in secret prior to his
visiting them in order to have

1295
01:16:21,560 --> 01:16:24,400
this initial kind of a a thing
happen, right?

1296
01:16:24,840 --> 01:16:27,760
Like if if you really, well, I
guess it'd be hard because he'd

1297
01:16:27,760 --> 01:16:31,280
have to teach them first.
Yeah, I guess that's why.

1298
01:16:34,480 --> 01:16:37,400
You know, and I want to speak to
something else here, right?

1299
01:16:37,400 --> 01:16:39,800
As as fundamentalists
understanding certain

1300
01:16:39,800 --> 01:16:44,200
ordinances, we understand that
women can bear the priesthood,

1301
01:16:44,480 --> 01:16:48,080
right?
And so I'm, I'm not arguing that

1302
01:16:48,080 --> 01:16:51,720
point, but what I am arguing
here is there's no allusions to

1303
01:16:51,760 --> 01:16:55,920
those sorts of things taking
place prior to the woman

1304
01:16:56,480 --> 01:17:00,120
administering the sacrament.
Right, right.

1305
01:17:00,200 --> 01:17:01,280
And we're going to get into
that.

1306
01:17:01,480 --> 01:17:06,440
We're not done, but it goes on.
And I just want to include a

1307
01:17:06,440 --> 01:17:13,240
little bit more because let's
see, next we have Christ calling

1308
01:17:13,240 --> 01:17:17,720
apostles.
So he tells Samuel, you who have

1309
01:17:17,720 --> 01:17:21,040
been my mouthpiece in times
past, be so now even unto this

1310
01:17:21,040 --> 01:17:22,920
people.
And take 12 of your people of

1311
01:17:22,920 --> 01:17:26,240
both men and women, and behold,
I shall touch them and place

1312
01:17:26,240 --> 01:17:30,320
upon them the priesthood, and
they shall listen to my words.

1313
01:17:30,520 --> 01:17:37,240
So yeah, yeah, it's, we got to
get into the priesthood section

1314
01:17:37,240 --> 01:17:38,680
too.
This is an entirely different

1315
01:17:38,680 --> 01:17:41,840
take on the priesthood.
But basically they're going to,

1316
01:17:41,840 --> 01:17:46,240
they'll obey my words.
So basically the 12 are chosen,

1317
01:17:48,720 --> 01:17:51,240
you know, Half Men, half women.
Right.

1318
01:17:51,960 --> 01:17:59,720
For their apostles and I'm just
good on down here a little bit

1319
01:17:59,720 --> 01:18:04,480
later says and then casting his
eyes about he caught us.

1320
01:18:04,680 --> 01:18:07,560
He taught us concerning this
priesthood, saying, Behold, I do

1321
01:18:07,560 --> 01:18:10,440
perceive your thoughts.
Marvel not that I have given

1322
01:18:10,440 --> 01:18:13,040
mine authority to women and men
alike.

1323
01:18:13,160 --> 01:18:15,840
Yeah, this thing has been of
concern to some since the day

1324
01:18:15,880 --> 01:18:19,640
that Possibel received word from
me of the ordinance she should

1325
01:18:19,640 --> 01:18:23,240
perform when I came.
Behold, I do confer the

1326
01:18:23,240 --> 01:18:26,760
priesthood upon those men who
would follow me and do the

1327
01:18:26,760 --> 01:18:30,120
things they see me do, and upon
such as made an ordination, that

1328
01:18:30,120 --> 01:18:32,880
they may speak and act in my
name, and be justified in so

1329
01:18:32,880 --> 01:18:36,120
doing.
But I do not confer such upon

1330
01:18:36,120 --> 01:18:40,200
the woman, for they have of my
mother in heaven that which I

1331
01:18:40,200 --> 01:18:43,120
cannot give.
Therefore I do ordain them.

1332
01:18:43,160 --> 01:18:46,480
But the priesthood they have
already cannot be given nor

1333
01:18:46,480 --> 01:18:49,640
taken away but by that person
who gave it.

1334
01:18:50,440 --> 01:18:54,240
Wherefore if there be any woman
who desire to follow me and they

1335
01:18:54,240 --> 01:18:57,200
do the things they say me do,
they are authorized from the

1336
01:18:57,200 --> 01:18:59,800
foundation of the world, and I
do justify them.

1337
01:19:02,560 --> 01:19:07,760
So I wouldn't put this into the
the femme supremacist area just

1338
01:19:07,760 --> 01:19:11,800
because I don't think that that
order would put a woman

1339
01:19:11,800 --> 01:19:16,400
necessarily above a man in
inherent qualities, but.

1340
01:19:16,520 --> 01:19:19,640
This is a.
Really different take on the

1341
01:19:19,640 --> 01:19:25,680
priesthood than what we find in
early Christianity, Catholicism,

1342
01:19:25,680 --> 01:19:31,960
and then in Mormonism this idea
that women.

1343
01:19:32,480 --> 01:19:33,880
Are.
Basically born with the

1344
01:19:33,880 --> 01:19:35,880
priesthood.
Right.

1345
01:19:36,160 --> 01:19:38,280
That men have to receive it, but
women?

1346
01:19:38,400 --> 01:19:42,800
It's inherent to them, and
therefore they can act in the

1347
01:19:42,800 --> 01:19:45,280
priesthood without even being
ordained.

1348
01:19:47,760 --> 01:19:53,360
Yeah.
So it kind of goes on a little

1349
01:19:53,360 --> 01:19:56,400
more, but the whole men receive
not such power by their creation

1350
01:19:56,400 --> 01:19:58,800
and come into the world without
the natural inclination to do

1351
01:19:58,800 --> 01:20:02,120
good.
So men's natural inclination is

1352
01:20:02,120 --> 01:20:07,840
to always do evil.
I mean, that is taught in the

1353
01:20:07,840 --> 01:20:10,880
scriptures, right?
Wherefore have I said the

1354
01:20:10,880 --> 01:20:13,840
natural man is an enemy to God?
Yes, but the.

1355
01:20:13,960 --> 01:20:15,720
The.
Distinction here.

1356
01:20:16,080 --> 01:20:20,920
I, I don't, I, I don't I I think
that's men as in the human

1357
01:20:20,920 --> 01:20:23,000
family is what they're talking
about there.

1358
01:20:23,000 --> 01:20:25,440
Yeah.
I mean, I could, you know, I'm,

1359
01:20:25,440 --> 01:20:29,160
I'm a context, but I mean, hey,
to each their own.

1360
01:20:31,000 --> 01:20:34,240
Right.
To each their own, but

1361
01:20:34,240 --> 01:20:38,760
apparently for women.
I guess women don't have a

1362
01:20:38,760 --> 01:20:41,480
natural man.
No, no, they are they?

1363
01:20:41,640 --> 01:20:51,000
Yeah, cool.
So anyway, yeah, so there's this

1364
01:20:51,000 --> 01:20:53,960
idea of there's this idea of not
only are women able to hold the

1365
01:20:53,960 --> 01:20:57,720
priesthood, they inherently have
the priesthood, whereas men

1366
01:20:57,720 --> 01:21:01,720
don't.
You know, and look, let's be

1367
01:21:01,720 --> 01:21:05,120
honest, this isn't the first
time that this that that

1368
01:21:05,120 --> 01:21:07,960
particular doctrine was floated
around, right?

1369
01:21:08,320 --> 01:21:12,920
That's been floating around LDS
circles for a long time to

1370
01:21:13,640 --> 01:21:16,320
especially once certain
ordinances went away from the

1371
01:21:16,320 --> 01:21:20,880
LDS Church.
This this is how they rectified

1372
01:21:20,880 --> 01:21:24,040
this, right?
And so this isn't a uniquely

1373
01:21:24,120 --> 01:21:28,000
Nemenha record idea.
This is something that's been

1374
01:21:28,000 --> 01:21:30,160
floated around for quite some
time.

1375
01:21:31,160 --> 01:21:32,440
Yeah.
That's true.

1376
01:21:33,400 --> 01:21:35,560
But you know, up to you.
Take it or leave it.

1377
01:21:37,320 --> 01:21:39,640
OK.
That's what they got.

1378
01:21:40,920 --> 01:21:42,600
So I guess with this is we're
already talking about

1379
01:21:42,600 --> 01:21:44,040
priesthood.
Let's talk about the priesthood,

1380
01:21:45,680 --> 01:21:49,920
because even the priesthood is a
little bit different, defined a

1381
01:21:49,920 --> 01:21:52,520
little bit differently, and
we'll see some variation here.

1382
01:21:53,360 --> 01:21:58,080
So this is from volume four,
more Haniah, chapter 16.

1383
01:21:58,080 --> 01:21:59,920
And oh, guess what?
More Haniah.

1384
01:21:59,920 --> 01:22:02,240
Guess who that is?
Mormon.

1385
01:22:03,400 --> 01:22:05,040
Moroni.
Close, close.

1386
01:22:05,600 --> 01:22:08,680
I I was close I just took a
guess because it was Mor and

1387
01:22:08,680 --> 01:22:10,480
then dash.
Right.

1388
01:22:10,480 --> 01:22:14,680
Yep.
Yeah, So apparently Mormon and

1389
01:22:14,680 --> 01:22:19,320
Moroni both were Nementhal.
Oh.

1390
01:22:19,320 --> 01:22:26,280
And their dad was so Mormon's
dad was a spy, so to speak.

1391
01:22:26,280 --> 01:22:27,880
I mean, I think it's very called
spikes.

1392
01:22:27,880 --> 01:22:32,960
I don't think they knew he was.
And then, ha, and he was sent

1393
01:22:32,960 --> 01:22:35,040
there to observe them, scout
them out.

1394
01:22:36,040 --> 01:22:38,400
And he took his son more.
He took his son Mormon, who was

1395
01:22:38,400 --> 01:22:40,640
eight with him.
And that's the author, the Book

1396
01:22:40,640 --> 01:22:44,960
of Mormon author Mormon.
But we'll get into that later.

1397
01:22:44,960 --> 01:22:47,520
But so this is so afterwards,
obviously after the Nephi

1398
01:22:47,520 --> 01:22:51,800
battles, since the Book of
Mormon doesn't say Moroni died,

1399
01:22:53,200 --> 01:22:58,080
you know, the Nemenha record is
able to continue his story.

1400
01:22:59,520 --> 01:23:04,720
And this is Moroni's teachings
on the priesthood.

1401
01:23:06,600 --> 01:23:09,320
So he says, behold, the
priesthood of God is a tool for

1402
01:23:09,320 --> 01:23:12,000
him.
Is verse 12 anybody's listening?

1403
01:23:13,880 --> 01:23:17,000
Behold, the priest of God is a
tool for him and through it we

1404
01:23:17,000 --> 01:23:21,480
may work to perfect ourselves
and better our lives to service

1405
01:23:21,480 --> 01:23:25,880
to our fellow beings.
So this is kind of this idea of

1406
01:23:25,880 --> 01:23:29,320
the, of the definition of the of
priesthood, which I, I think

1407
01:23:29,320 --> 01:23:31,760
there's some truth to that.
I was going to say I can't.

1408
01:23:31,760 --> 01:23:37,040
I can't just call call BS on
that altogether.

1409
01:23:37,040 --> 01:23:39,520
I think there is some some truth
there to that.

1410
01:23:41,040 --> 01:23:42,920
Right, but I don't believe
that's the intent.

1411
01:23:42,960 --> 01:23:45,280
I mean, that is the consequence
of the priesthood, right, But I

1412
01:23:45,280 --> 01:23:48,720
don't believe that's why it's
the priest of God is a tool for

1413
01:23:48,720 --> 01:23:56,000
God to basically bless his
children on the earth through

1414
01:23:56,000 --> 01:23:59,200
his servants.
It's about, you know, exercising

1415
01:23:59,200 --> 01:24:01,240
that priesthood to perform
ordinances for people.

1416
01:24:02,120 --> 01:24:07,000
And the the the happy byproduct
of that is it also perfects the

1417
01:24:07,000 --> 01:24:08,320
priesthood holder in their
lives.

1418
01:24:08,560 --> 01:24:09,440
Right.
Yep.

1419
01:24:09,720 --> 01:24:13,120
But the the main intent is it's
a way for God's authority to be

1420
01:24:13,120 --> 01:24:16,080
present on the earth without God
being present on the earth.

1421
01:24:16,760 --> 01:24:20,800
Right.
But the anyways.

1422
01:24:22,680 --> 01:24:24,880
Oh, and the reason this is being
brought into contention here,

1423
01:24:24,880 --> 01:24:28,440
the reason he's teaching about
the priesthood is because some

1424
01:24:28,440 --> 01:24:33,360
new high priest gets selected
who has more modern LDS

1425
01:24:33,360 --> 01:24:37,960
perspectives on the priesthood.
And so he's going to, he's going

1426
01:24:37,960 --> 01:24:40,200
to explain why these things are
wrong.

1427
01:24:41,920 --> 01:24:43,920
So I'm going to just kind of
skip the rest of that because

1428
01:24:43,920 --> 01:24:46,120
it's more plot centric.
And I just want to look at the

1429
01:24:46,120 --> 01:24:49,320
theology here.
And behold, I am a high priest

1430
01:24:49,520 --> 01:24:51,760
to my city.
Does this give me authority to

1431
01:24:51,760 --> 01:24:54,800
do more than my calling allows?
Yay.

1432
01:24:54,800 --> 01:24:57,840
Does this give me authority to
order the lives of my neighbors?

1433
01:24:59,520 --> 01:25:02,840
I think no, I don't think you
know, just 'cause you have

1434
01:25:02,840 --> 01:25:04,920
priesthood, it doesn't mean you
can tell your neighbors

1435
01:25:05,960 --> 01:25:09,440
authority to order their lives,
to say unto them, you must do

1436
01:25:09,440 --> 01:25:11,880
this or you must do that.
And behold, if you do not do

1437
01:25:11,880 --> 01:25:14,040
this or that, you shall not be
blessed of the Lord.

1438
01:25:15,120 --> 01:25:19,000
I actually think that's exactly
what what the priesthood is used

1439
01:25:19,000 --> 01:25:20,360
for.
Yeah, yeah.

1440
01:25:20,360 --> 01:25:23,680
Look, here's the thing, right?
I mean, as priesthood holders,

1441
01:25:23,840 --> 01:25:28,080
right, Especially if you're
fulfilling kind of a, a

1442
01:25:28,360 --> 01:25:34,440
shepherding calling, right?
You are kind of tasked with

1443
01:25:34,440 --> 01:25:38,120
saying if you do these things,
the Lord tells you, you will be

1444
01:25:38,120 --> 01:25:40,880
blessed.
If you don't do these things,

1445
01:25:41,640 --> 01:25:44,120
the Lord tells you you will not
be blessed, right?

1446
01:25:44,360 --> 01:25:46,840
That is your duty as a
priesthood holder.

1447
01:25:46,840 --> 01:25:49,840
That's part of that whole crying
repentance thing, is it not?

1448
01:25:50,160 --> 01:25:52,560
Am I missing something here?
Right.

1449
01:25:52,560 --> 01:25:53,840
It makes me think of like
Lehigh.

1450
01:25:54,440 --> 01:25:56,640
Right.
In the Book of Mormon, why, why

1451
01:25:56,640 --> 01:25:59,040
did Lehigh have to leave?
Why, why, why didn't they try to

1452
01:25:59,040 --> 01:26:02,760
kill him?
Oh, 'cause he was using his

1453
01:26:02,760 --> 01:26:05,520
priests authority to say unto
them that you must do this or do

1454
01:26:05,520 --> 01:26:06,840
that.
But behold, if you do not do

1455
01:26:06,840 --> 01:26:09,440
this or that, you shall not be
blessed, the Lord, that's why.

1456
01:26:09,960 --> 01:26:13,680
If you're going to adopt this,
if you are going to live by this

1457
01:26:13,920 --> 01:26:17,720
right here, go ahead and toss
out the Old Testament entirely,

1458
01:26:19,160 --> 01:26:24,880
especially especially Jeremiah,
Isaiah, Lamentations.

1459
01:26:24,880 --> 01:26:28,280
Just throw that out because you
know what that though all those

1460
01:26:28,280 --> 01:26:30,440
books are about.
Elijah.

1461
01:26:30,960 --> 01:26:33,360
Right, that's about saying.
Jeremiah.

1462
01:26:34,000 --> 01:26:38,080
If you don't do these things,
you will not be blessed that

1463
01:26:38,080 --> 01:26:42,400
that's the whole thing, right?
And so if you're going to take

1464
01:26:42,400 --> 01:26:46,160
this mentality with it, well,
then just throw out the Old

1465
01:26:46,160 --> 01:26:48,440
Testament.
And maybe that is the end goal,

1466
01:26:48,480 --> 01:26:50,440
I don't know.
Maybe.

1467
01:26:51,640 --> 01:26:53,400
But so, OK, first question,
sure.

1468
01:26:53,400 --> 01:26:55,960
Second question.
I don't lean that way.

1469
01:26:56,320 --> 01:26:58,440
Nope.
Does the high priest or any

1470
01:26:58,440 --> 01:27:00,760
office of the priesthood give
anyone the right or authority to

1471
01:27:00,760 --> 01:27:03,960
declare worthiness or to
withhold ordinances?

1472
01:27:04,560 --> 01:27:07,800
Yes.
Again, isn't that the point?

1473
01:27:08,120 --> 01:27:10,600
Yep, of of priesthood.
Yep.

1474
01:27:11,280 --> 01:27:15,120
Because I mean, I think God
wants everybody to receive the

1475
01:27:15,120 --> 01:27:18,560
ordinances.
That have prepared themselves.

1476
01:27:19,560 --> 01:27:21,600
Right.
But if God wants everybody to

1477
01:27:21,600 --> 01:27:23,880
receive the ordinances, why not
let anybody give them the

1478
01:27:23,880 --> 01:27:26,720
ordinances?
It's well, because he wants them

1479
01:27:26,720 --> 01:27:31,400
to receive it properly, right?
Well, it it's the same thing on,

1480
01:27:31,400 --> 01:27:33,680
you know, do we want our kids to
drive?

1481
01:27:34,200 --> 01:27:35,720
Yes.
I want my kids to learn how to

1482
01:27:35,720 --> 01:27:38,600
drive.
Does that mean I let my five

1483
01:27:38,600 --> 01:27:43,120
year old drive?
No, no, not on the, not on a

1484
01:27:43,120 --> 01:27:45,480
highway, nothing like that,
right?

1485
01:27:45,640 --> 01:27:48,480
Why?
Well, not because that I don't

1486
01:27:48,480 --> 01:27:52,440
want them to have that
privilege, but because they're

1487
01:27:52,440 --> 01:27:55,560
not ready, right?
Coordination not there.

1488
01:27:55,960 --> 01:27:59,760
And what starts out by us
wanting to bless somebody with

1489
01:27:59,760 --> 01:28:03,560
something that they're not ready
for ultimately ends up into our

1490
01:28:03,560 --> 01:28:06,120
cursing them because they've
done things that they're not

1491
01:28:06,120 --> 01:28:08,600
ready for.
And in the analogy of driving a

1492
01:28:08,600 --> 01:28:11,440
car, they're going to crash the
car and hurt themselves or

1493
01:28:11,440 --> 01:28:15,560
somebody else or both, Right.
Exactly.

1494
01:28:16,960 --> 01:28:18,360
So let's continue another
question.

1495
01:28:18,360 --> 01:28:21,400
Is the priesthood mighty to save
or is it the priesthood that

1496
01:28:21,400 --> 01:28:23,640
brings salvation?
Question mark.

1497
01:28:26,240 --> 01:28:30,560
Now that's an interesting one.
I would say exclusively, you

1498
01:28:30,560 --> 01:28:34,680
know, the priesthood by itself,
Well, I don't know.

1499
01:28:34,680 --> 01:28:37,720
We do have Section 84 of the
Doctrine and Covenants.

1500
01:28:38,160 --> 01:28:40,520
That said, those who are
faithful in obtaining these two

1501
01:28:40,520 --> 01:28:42,480
priesthoods would have eternal
life.

1502
01:28:44,120 --> 01:28:46,400
Right.
If there's no priesthood, are

1503
01:28:46,400 --> 01:28:49,440
there ordinances?
Right, right, you got if.

1504
01:28:49,440 --> 01:28:51,240
There's no ordinances, is there
salvation?

1505
01:28:51,640 --> 01:28:54,360
Right.
I mean, are we baptizing people

1506
01:28:54,360 --> 01:28:58,760
for the dead because they need
to be baptized or or not?

1507
01:28:59,320 --> 01:29:00,400
Right.
Right.

1508
01:29:00,800 --> 01:29:05,120
Because yeah, So priesthood is
definitely vital to the

1509
01:29:05,120 --> 01:29:10,880
salvation mission of the
restored Gospel, right?

1510
01:29:11,240 --> 01:29:13,600
There is there is no salvation
without it, because there's no

1511
01:29:13,600 --> 01:29:15,160
baptism and ordinances without
it.

1512
01:29:15,240 --> 01:29:17,560
And without baptism, you cannot
enter into the Kingdom of

1513
01:29:17,560 --> 01:29:19,680
heaven.
And what does the Lord say about

1514
01:29:19,680 --> 01:29:22,680
the the ordinances, right?
The power of godliness is made

1515
01:29:22,680 --> 01:29:25,640
manifest through the ordinances,
right?

1516
01:29:25,800 --> 01:29:28,040
Right.
And so with without the

1517
01:29:28,040 --> 01:29:31,320
priesthood to administer those
ordinances, we've been taught

1518
01:29:31,320 --> 01:29:34,520
since day one in the
Restoration, without the right

1519
01:29:34,520 --> 01:29:39,600
authority, they come to not,
they're ineffective, right?

1520
01:29:40,120 --> 01:29:43,960
Yeah.
But apparently this moron I says

1521
01:29:45,000 --> 01:29:47,680
it is not.
It's all those questions.

1522
01:29:48,880 --> 01:29:52,320
And does the priest who convey
dominion over anything I say

1523
01:29:52,320 --> 01:29:53,520
unto you?
It does not.

1524
01:29:55,200 --> 01:29:57,200
So.
Here's the thing.

1525
01:29:57,200 --> 01:30:01,600
I To me this is a bit of a
poison pill.

1526
01:30:02,040 --> 01:30:05,000
Yep.
Because I agree that the

1527
01:30:05,000 --> 01:30:09,560
priesthood does not convey
dominion over anything, neither

1528
01:30:09,560 --> 01:30:12,120
does it give you authority to
order the lives of of your

1529
01:30:12,120 --> 01:30:16,520
neighbors.
I think those things are obvious

1530
01:30:16,560 --> 01:30:18,080
abuses of priesthood.
Power.

1531
01:30:18,840 --> 01:30:22,320
Right.
However, these other three

1532
01:30:22,320 --> 01:30:25,720
things that just got directly
connected, you know in an all or

1533
01:30:25,720 --> 01:30:31,040
nothing way are completely
contrary to how the priesthood

1534
01:30:31,040 --> 01:30:32,760
is described in all of
scripture.

1535
01:30:33,240 --> 01:30:34,520
Right.
Yep.

1536
01:30:35,520 --> 01:30:39,560
And so a little sneaky.
I was going to say it's

1537
01:30:39,560 --> 01:30:42,480
fascinating that they start out
with two statements that most

1538
01:30:42,480 --> 01:30:47,360
people would blatantly disagree
with and then just kind of slip

1539
01:30:47,360 --> 01:30:49,960
in those other ones there.
Right.

1540
01:30:51,160 --> 01:30:54,640
So I'm jumping, I'm jumping
back.

1541
01:30:54,640 --> 01:31:00,120
OK, we're jumping back chapter
12, same book, but back to

1542
01:31:00,120 --> 01:31:05,600
chapter 12.
And I think this is more general

1543
01:31:06,040 --> 01:31:11,440
preaching on priesthood.
OK, so in verse 39, the end here

1544
01:31:11,440 --> 01:31:12,680
is where it kind of is, is
important.

1545
01:31:12,680 --> 01:31:16,040
It says, behold, the Commission
of the Lord is the priesthood

1546
01:31:16,480 --> 01:31:19,400
and it is the responsibility of
every person to obtain it.

1547
01:31:20,640 --> 01:31:24,080
So actually, you know, I haven't
explained this yet.

1548
01:31:24,080 --> 01:31:29,360
I'm just going to go into it.
Let's break, let's take a quick

1549
01:31:29,360 --> 01:31:30,480
break.
We're going to come back to the

1550
01:31:30,480 --> 01:31:31,600
priesthood.
There's something else

1551
01:31:31,600 --> 01:31:34,480
interesting we got to understand
here, and it is called the Way.

1552
01:31:35,640 --> 01:31:38,760
So you might have noticed
already, this word keeps coming

1553
01:31:38,760 --> 01:31:46,880
up the way I want to define that
because this is unique to the

1554
01:31:46,880 --> 01:31:49,920
Nemenha record.
We don't, we don't find anything

1555
01:31:51,440 --> 01:31:58,280
about this anywhere else in
Scripture standard works or or

1556
01:31:58,280 --> 01:32:01,440
any of that.
But it's foundational to this.

1557
01:32:01,440 --> 01:32:03,560
The Nemenha records theology,
OK.

1558
01:32:04,080 --> 01:32:09,440
So.
This is again from Moroni volume

1559
01:32:09,480 --> 01:32:11,920
from volume 5.
This is in Chapter 9 and this is

1560
01:32:11,920 --> 01:32:20,960
an explanation on on the way.
And basically I didn't highlight

1561
01:32:20,960 --> 01:32:26,800
this section, unfortunately.
It's basically this is a, a, an

1562
01:32:29,040 --> 01:32:34,160
ability that you can, you can
achieve that allows you to kind

1563
01:32:34,160 --> 01:32:38,040
of enter into this.
What, what I would look at is

1564
01:32:38,040 --> 01:32:43,840
saying like an altered state and
they, the record claims it's not

1565
01:32:43,840 --> 01:32:46,680
just, it's not the same as
regular meditation that your

1566
01:32:46,680 --> 01:32:50,640
spirit transcends into a
different plane into a

1567
01:32:50,640 --> 01:32:55,680
terrestrial world and where you
can talk with your ancestors.

1568
01:32:55,680 --> 01:32:57,920
That's where you can, there's a
Christ.

1569
01:32:57,920 --> 01:33:01,360
That's where all of revelation
happens when we have scriptures

1570
01:33:02,320 --> 01:33:05,720
like Moses speaking with the
Lord, it's these things are

1571
01:33:05,720 --> 01:33:13,840
always happening on the way
though, and this is the way.

1572
01:33:13,840 --> 01:33:19,160
So the gifts of I can't cancel
that.

1573
01:33:19,160 --> 01:33:20,640
It's just it's going to give me
stress.

1574
01:33:20,640 --> 01:33:21,920
OK, We're skipping it.
We're skipping.

1575
01:33:21,920 --> 01:33:25,360
Those people are greatly to be
desired, for they are the

1576
01:33:25,360 --> 01:33:28,400
ability to walk and talk daily
with the grandfathers, with

1577
01:33:28,400 --> 01:33:31,360
angels, and with the spirits of
just men and women made perfect,

1578
01:33:31,760 --> 01:33:33,960
and with the Christ himself when
need be.

1579
01:33:34,640 --> 01:33:36,320
Yeah.
So great is this gift that all

1580
01:33:36,320 --> 01:33:39,240
the Nemenha aspire to possess
it, and they work diligently to

1581
01:33:39,240 --> 01:33:41,320
acquire it.
For behold, it is the gift that

1582
01:33:41,320 --> 01:33:43,920
does not.
It is a gift that does come

1583
01:33:43,920 --> 01:33:47,960
naturally to those upon whom the
Lord sees fit to bestow it, and

1584
01:33:47,960 --> 01:33:50,720
this is usually when he has some
special purpose for that person.

1585
01:33:50,720 --> 01:33:53,600
But it is also among the gifts
of the Spirit unto which we may

1586
01:33:53,600 --> 01:33:54,840
aspire.
And the Lord does make it

1587
01:33:54,840 --> 01:33:58,280
available to all who would have
it, but it comes only by much

1588
01:33:58,280 --> 01:34:01,680
diligent labor.
And this is the manner in which

1589
01:34:01,680 --> 01:34:04,240
the nem and how to teach their
children to labor to attain this

1590
01:34:04,240 --> 01:34:06,440
gift.
So this is like a a gift of the

1591
01:34:06,440 --> 01:34:10,520
Spirit that we've just never
heard of before, although it

1592
01:34:10,520 --> 01:34:11,800
kind of overlaps with a lot of
them.

1593
01:34:12,120 --> 01:34:14,320
Interesting.
And and so you said this is

1594
01:34:14,320 --> 01:34:17,840
usually kind of the, the vibe
that you're, you're getting from

1595
01:34:17,840 --> 01:34:22,320
this is that you got to kind of
get into a, an altered state of

1596
01:34:22,320 --> 01:34:25,160
consciousness, so to speak, in
order to, to get this.

1597
01:34:26,480 --> 01:34:30,440
Yes, OK, Yep.
And he's going to explain how

1598
01:34:30,440 --> 01:34:32,560
right here.
I should highlight it, but I

1599
01:34:32,560 --> 01:34:33,760
didn't get, I didn't get around
to it.

1600
01:34:33,760 --> 01:34:36,880
You're fine.
So starting from verse 5, from

1601
01:34:36,880 --> 01:34:39,920
the earliest age, even as soon
as a child is able to comprehend

1602
01:34:39,920 --> 01:34:42,520
the words of its mother, every
child is taught the teachings

1603
01:34:42,520 --> 01:34:45,680
and principles of the high
place, that that's the

1604
01:34:45,880 --> 01:34:47,520
endowment, their version of the
endowment.

1605
01:34:47,760 --> 01:34:50,880
Yep.
In this manner the child comes

1606
01:34:50,880 --> 01:34:53,640
to an early understanding of the
realities of the universe in

1607
01:34:53,640 --> 01:34:55,640
which we live.
For it would not do for a child

1608
01:34:55,640 --> 01:34:58,360
to have any misconceptions of
the nature of the universe and

1609
01:34:58,360 --> 01:35:00,760
of creation.
Such things do become great

1610
01:35:00,760 --> 01:35:02,880
impotence to those wishing to
walk upon the way.

1611
01:35:04,360 --> 01:35:07,880
OK, so.
There is a cosmology explained

1612
01:35:07,960 --> 01:35:10,920
in their endowment.
OK.

1613
01:35:11,200 --> 01:35:14,840
So the high place is a reference
to their temple ordinances.

1614
01:35:15,320 --> 01:35:19,080
Did I understand that?
So they're advocating for

1615
01:35:19,080 --> 01:35:25,120
children to go through the
endowment as children.

1616
01:35:25,240 --> 01:35:28,760
Is that what I'm understanding?
Almost not to go through it, but

1617
01:35:28,760 --> 01:35:32,120
to be basically taught it, read
the script to them and teach the

1618
01:35:32,440 --> 01:35:34,600
principles to them so that
they're super, super familiar

1619
01:35:34,600 --> 01:35:37,560
with it.
So that way when they go first

1620
01:35:37,760 --> 01:35:42,320
to actually do it, they're
better prepared.

1621
01:35:43,520 --> 01:35:47,240
So their their version of the
endowment is not A and temple

1622
01:35:47,240 --> 01:35:52,880
ritual is not intended to be
sacredly hidden from the world.

1623
01:35:52,880 --> 01:35:58,720
It is meant to be publicly
thought and and broadcast

1624
01:36:00,760 --> 01:36:05,640
starting with children and and
that's because there's a certain

1625
01:36:05,640 --> 01:36:08,240
cosmology explained in there.
We'll get into that section too.

1626
01:36:08,240 --> 01:36:10,440
That'll be a hard section to
talk about, but we'll get there.

1627
01:36:13,120 --> 01:36:16,600
So with this cosmology
understanding, you know, without

1628
01:36:16,600 --> 01:36:18,200
it, it's an impotent to walking
on the way.

1629
01:36:18,200 --> 01:36:21,440
So they're going to basically
reveal the endowment to their

1630
01:36:21,440 --> 01:36:22,720
children.
OK.

1631
01:36:25,160 --> 01:36:30,960
For the Way is a construct of
the creation, and it is made-up

1632
01:36:30,960 --> 01:36:33,760
of the matter which the Creator
took back to himself, when our

1633
01:36:33,840 --> 01:36:36,600
the first of our race left the
protected place which was their

1634
01:36:36,600 --> 01:36:39,360
first home.
Yeah, when first woman who is

1635
01:36:39,360 --> 01:36:41,760
represented by Mother E 1st
decided to leave the place of

1636
01:36:41,760 --> 01:36:44,080
protection, and when first man
who's represented by Father

1637
01:36:44,080 --> 01:36:46,600
Adam, decided to remain with
her.

1638
01:36:47,040 --> 01:36:49,160
And so all the people followed
them also.

1639
01:36:49,320 --> 01:36:52,280
The Creator took upon them again
all that which made-up the first

1640
01:36:52,280 --> 01:36:56,960
home which is represented by the
Valley and the Garden of Eden.

1641
01:36:56,960 --> 01:36:58,680
And with that matter, he made
the Way.

1642
01:36:59,440 --> 01:37:01,960
So.
After Adam and Eve are kicked

1643
01:37:01,960 --> 01:37:06,280
out of the garden, you've got
like a higher phase, a higher

1644
01:37:06,280 --> 01:37:12,680
sphere bubble of that garden.
It gets recycled, I guess, into

1645
01:37:13,320 --> 01:37:16,080
the way.
Now, the way is not to be

1646
01:37:16,080 --> 01:37:18,960
understood to be part of the
spirit world wherein we lived

1647
01:37:18,960 --> 01:37:21,280
before the world was made.
So just to be clear, it's not.

1648
01:37:21,280 --> 01:37:25,320
This isn't supposed to be the
spirit world, but that is a

1649
01:37:25,320 --> 01:37:28,040
different creation has no part
with the type and kind of matter

1650
01:37:28,040 --> 01:37:29,920
out of which the the world was
made.

1651
01:37:31,280 --> 01:37:34,280
That's funny, I I think Genesis
says otherwise, but.

1652
01:37:34,720 --> 01:37:38,520
Yeah, it does.
Not just Genesis, Moses, the

1653
01:37:38,520 --> 01:37:40,400
endowment, lots of things kind
of say otherwise.

1654
01:37:40,400 --> 01:37:43,920
But anyways, but the way he's
made-up from matter that makes

1655
01:37:43,920 --> 01:37:47,400
up part of the world in which we
live, but having been protected

1656
01:37:47,400 --> 01:37:49,240
by the Lord, it remains under
his influence.

1657
01:37:49,240 --> 01:37:51,920
So it's, it's, it's more
celestial matter, celestialized

1658
01:37:51,920 --> 01:37:55,040
matter.
Wherefore it is said to be part

1659
01:37:55,040 --> 01:37:57,240
of the terrestrial world wherein
there's no death.

1660
01:37:57,240 --> 01:38:00,840
And the creator also constructed
the way that it makes access to

1661
01:38:00,840 --> 01:38:02,920
all the other places in the
world, even the kingdoms

1662
01:38:02,920 --> 01:38:05,960
therein, that a person who
attains the gift gains access to

1663
01:38:05,960 --> 01:38:08,000
all places and kingdoms where
the Lord sees fit to give

1664
01:38:08,000 --> 01:38:09,680
guidance.
Wherefore it is better that

1665
01:38:09,680 --> 01:38:12,240
little children be taught the
truth of creation, that when

1666
01:38:12,240 --> 01:38:14,560
they seek entrance upon the way,
they might not be encumbered

1667
01:38:14,560 --> 01:38:17,640
with misconceptions which might
prove a stumbling block to them.

1668
01:38:19,000 --> 01:38:28,560
So the way is basically you
meditate and in that meditation

1669
01:38:28,560 --> 01:38:33,840
you find yourself upon the way.
And I can't remember, there

1670
01:38:33,840 --> 01:38:36,240
seems to be some kind of
conflicting ideas on whether you

1671
01:38:36,240 --> 01:38:38,240
need priesthood to enter into
the way or not.

1672
01:38:38,680 --> 01:38:41,400
It kind of implied.
So you do in some places, but in

1673
01:38:41,400 --> 01:38:43,600
other places clearly that
wouldn't be the case.

1674
01:38:44,960 --> 01:38:48,800
Well, yeah, especially if
they're, you know, getting their

1675
01:38:48,800 --> 01:38:52,000
children involved with it.
Right.

1676
01:38:52,400 --> 01:38:57,240
Yeah, right.
So anyways, we keep saying the

1677
01:38:57,240 --> 01:38:59,600
words high places the way.
Now you got a little bit of a

1678
01:38:59,600 --> 01:39:00,880
definition.
OK.

1679
01:39:02,200 --> 01:39:04,040
So back to the priesthood,
though.

1680
01:39:04,680 --> 01:39:08,520
Where were we?
Behold, the Commission of the

1681
01:39:08,520 --> 01:39:10,920
Lord is the priesthood, and it
is the responsibility of it.

1682
01:39:10,920 --> 01:39:13,240
Oh, we did that.
Or did we?

1683
01:39:14,280 --> 01:39:15,840
I think that's where we left
off.

1684
01:39:16,200 --> 01:39:17,480
That's where we left off.
That's right.

1685
01:39:17,480 --> 01:39:21,000
So it's the Commission of the
Lord is the priesthood.

1686
01:39:21,040 --> 01:39:23,160
OK, so the priest is not the
priesthood name.

1687
01:39:23,160 --> 01:39:24,400
The high priest is not the
priesthood.

1688
01:39:24,400 --> 01:39:27,880
It is that specific word of God
that comes to an individual by

1689
01:39:27,880 --> 01:39:30,600
and through the Holy Ghost that
conveys the Commission to the

1690
01:39:30,600 --> 01:39:32,440
heart and soul of a man or a
woman.

1691
01:39:34,040 --> 01:39:39,280
So the priesthood doesn't come
upon you by like a laying on of

1692
01:39:39,280 --> 01:39:41,280
hands.
Like a conferral.

1693
01:39:42,000 --> 01:39:48,960
Like a conferral, it comes to
you like the Holy Ghost does and

1694
01:39:48,960 --> 01:39:51,160
you get this.
The Holy Ghost delivers a

1695
01:39:51,160 --> 01:39:55,360
Commission to you and hands it,
metaphorically hands it to you.

1696
01:39:56,320 --> 01:39:58,800
And when you receive that,
that's that's the Commission of

1697
01:39:58,800 --> 01:40:01,160
the Lord.
So the Commission of the Lord is

1698
01:40:01,160 --> 01:40:04,440
the priesthood.
What that means is being

1699
01:40:04,480 --> 01:40:10,080
receiving this, this divine
Commission spiritually, that is

1700
01:40:10,080 --> 01:40:13,360
the priesthood.
Interesting.

1701
01:40:14,000 --> 01:40:15,960
Well, that's all sorts of
problems, right?

1702
01:40:15,960 --> 01:40:18,400
First off, it makes the
priesthood sound like the Force

1703
01:40:18,400 --> 01:40:21,200
from Star Wars.
That should be a first giveaway,

1704
01:40:21,200 --> 01:40:23,320
right?
You just got to tap into it.

1705
01:40:24,840 --> 01:40:30,760
The, the, the next thing is, is
then how is that?

1706
01:40:32,440 --> 01:40:35,360
There's got to be a way that
that has to be regulated a

1707
01:40:35,360 --> 01:40:38,800
little bit, right?
Otherwise, you could have just

1708
01:40:38,800 --> 01:40:42,280
about anybody stepping up and
claiming priesthood, which could

1709
01:40:42,280 --> 01:40:44,120
be a problem.
There was a reason Joseph Smith

1710
01:40:44,120 --> 01:40:48,000
made sure he administered
licenses to preach which had

1711
01:40:48,000 --> 01:40:50,760
your priesthood office on it,
and that was to maintain order,

1712
01:40:50,760 --> 01:40:53,240
right?
I see a few issues here with

1713
01:40:53,240 --> 01:40:55,200
this that that's a little
concerning.

1714
01:40:55,960 --> 01:40:59,360
That's a good point and I don't
I didn't include this section,

1715
01:40:59,960 --> 01:41:02,320
but there's a a session that
explains.

1716
01:41:02,320 --> 01:41:06,840
That Oh, OK, All right.
And basically is there's no,

1717
01:41:07,200 --> 01:41:10,360
there's no, you don't have a
certificate of, of coordination,

1718
01:41:10,640 --> 01:41:13,400
so to speak.
What it is, is when you want to

1719
01:41:13,400 --> 01:41:17,560
receive a priesthood ordinance,
you go upon the way and you

1720
01:41:17,560 --> 01:41:24,400
receive on the through the way
who you should ask to perform

1721
01:41:24,400 --> 01:41:26,960
that ordinance for you.
Interesting.

1722
01:41:27,680 --> 01:41:30,840
And so if I want to be baptized,
you know, I'll meditate.

1723
01:41:30,840 --> 01:41:34,160
And then when it, when it comes
to me, I'll know who to go to.

1724
01:41:34,280 --> 01:41:38,320
And since it came to me, whoever
I go to, since it came to me

1725
01:41:38,320 --> 01:41:40,200
from God, whoever I go to must
have priesthood.

1726
01:41:43,120 --> 01:41:46,160
Interesting SO.
That's kind of how that works.

1727
01:41:46,160 --> 01:41:48,040
OK.
It's a bit of a mystery whether

1728
01:41:48,040 --> 01:41:49,640
people have preached it or not,
you know?

1729
01:41:50,600 --> 01:41:56,080
Interesting.
So and verse 41 it goes on and

1730
01:41:56,080 --> 01:41:59,520
says, and behold, when this
Commission has come into the

1731
01:41:59,520 --> 01:42:03,520
soul of a purse, then they come
to a priest or the high priest

1732
01:42:03,520 --> 01:42:07,480
or to the Pele of the family.
Pele is a is basically a

1733
01:42:07,480 --> 01:42:09,880
Levitical priest.
OK.

1734
01:42:11,600 --> 01:42:14,440
Because they believe they're
also descendants of of of Aaron.

1735
01:42:14,880 --> 01:42:19,000
OK.
And that they've got Levite

1736
01:42:19,000 --> 01:42:21,000
blood or they all have Levite
blood.

1737
01:42:21,000 --> 01:42:24,400
Maybe because anybody can
potentially be a pelly.

1738
01:42:24,840 --> 01:42:27,760
No, no, hang tight here real
quick, right?

1739
01:42:27,760 --> 01:42:31,840
I, I want to talk about this for
a minute because this is another

1740
01:42:31,840 --> 01:42:34,520
place, I think that it the Book
of Mormon would disagree with

1741
01:42:34,520 --> 01:42:37,440
them, right?
Because the Book of Mormon, none

1742
01:42:37,440 --> 01:42:41,280
of the the the Ogs, so to speak,
that came across on the boat

1743
01:42:41,280 --> 01:42:45,400
were Levites.
Right.

1744
01:42:45,440 --> 01:42:50,360
I think it's Muleich that
Levites came later with Muleich.

1745
01:42:51,360 --> 01:42:57,760
OK.
But yeah, I, I, I do find it

1746
01:42:57,760 --> 01:43:00,880
interesting why they're mixing
all these different pieces

1747
01:43:00,880 --> 01:43:07,560
together too, really.
But anyway, so, so the

1748
01:43:07,560 --> 01:43:10,160
Commission comes to you, you
receive the priesthood in your

1749
01:43:10,160 --> 01:43:12,680
soul.
So then you seek out a priest, a

1750
01:43:12,680 --> 01:43:17,080
high priest or your family's
Levitical priest, and they

1751
01:43:17,080 --> 01:43:20,360
request a blessing of them to
confirm by token in the laying

1752
01:43:20,360 --> 01:43:23,080
on of hands of that which has
been received of the Lord.

1753
01:43:24,520 --> 01:43:27,600
So the laying on of hands isn't
the conferral of priesthood,

1754
01:43:28,400 --> 01:43:34,200
it's just a token to symbolize
that that that person's received

1755
01:43:34,200 --> 01:43:35,840
priesthood.
Confirmation.

1756
01:43:37,000 --> 01:43:41,040
Yeah, but not in a confirmation
in a in a.

1757
01:43:41,840 --> 01:43:45,120
Sort of a way, yeah.
Not in a Mormon ordinance sort

1758
01:43:45,120 --> 01:43:50,680
of way more of AI don't because
it's it doesn't seem to be

1759
01:43:50,680 --> 01:43:53,280
necessary.
The priesthood is that

1760
01:43:53,280 --> 01:43:56,400
Commission, and the laying on of
hands is just kind of the

1761
01:43:56,400 --> 01:43:58,200
formality.
Right.

1762
01:43:59,000 --> 01:44:02,040
Along with sometimes they'll,
you know, they'll prophecy or

1763
01:44:02,040 --> 01:44:04,640
give them counsel or some kind
of a blessing and guidance,

1764
01:44:04,640 --> 01:44:08,800
right.
And so, and if the high priest

1765
01:44:08,800 --> 01:44:11,640
is called, so that's how, that's
how you get called into the

1766
01:44:11,640 --> 01:44:14,320
priesthood.
The calling comes to you

1767
01:44:14,320 --> 01:44:16,960
personally.
And you might say, well, how

1768
01:44:16,960 --> 01:44:19,880
does the priesthood operate as
far as administering ordinances,

1769
01:44:19,880 --> 01:44:25,000
though work right?
Because I mean, I explained how

1770
01:44:25,000 --> 01:44:28,200
you have to have revelation to
know who to give you your

1771
01:44:28,200 --> 01:44:31,200
ordinances.
But but there are certain

1772
01:44:31,200 --> 01:44:34,680
assigned roles like working at
the at the high place that

1773
01:44:34,680 --> 01:44:38,400
requires priesthood, right?
So the way that these

1774
01:44:38,400 --> 01:44:41,000
priesthood, these standing
priesthood roles are are

1775
01:44:41,000 --> 01:44:43,040
resolved.
Here is what's explained next.

1776
01:44:43,040 --> 01:44:46,760
So basically the high priestess
call upon a person out of the

1777
01:44:46,760 --> 01:44:49,480
names provided by the people to
be a priest or a teacher unto

1778
01:44:49,480 --> 01:44:52,400
them, OK.
And they may not take up the

1779
01:44:52,400 --> 01:44:54,200
calling until they have sought
the confirmation list.

1780
01:44:54,200 --> 01:44:56,160
So they also have to.
So basically the high priest

1781
01:44:56,160 --> 01:44:58,720
says, hey, I think you ought to
be a Bishop or something, right?

1782
01:44:59,440 --> 01:45:02,120
And then you go and pray about
it, ask if that's your

1783
01:45:02,120 --> 01:45:05,600
Commission, if that's your
calling, and if it's not, you

1784
01:45:05,600 --> 01:45:09,120
say no.
And if it is, then you get, then

1785
01:45:09,120 --> 01:45:13,000
it's affirmed.
So that's how.

1786
01:45:14,240 --> 01:45:16,520
That part of the priesthood or
structure works.

1787
01:45:17,520 --> 01:45:19,720
Behold, the priesthood of God is
a serious matter to the

1788
01:45:19,720 --> 01:45:22,000
Nemenhah, and we do not trifle
with it.

1789
01:45:22,200 --> 01:45:25,520
It is not given to any person
without the clear and certain

1790
01:45:25,520 --> 01:45:30,280
Commission of the Lord, and this
Commission comes to a person by

1791
01:45:30,280 --> 01:45:32,000
and through the power of the
Holy Ghost.

1792
01:45:33,520 --> 01:45:36,440
So it's kind of how the
priesthood works.

1793
01:45:36,600 --> 01:45:40,080
Verse 44 goes on.
Now there's nothing that is.

1794
01:45:41,320 --> 01:45:45,200
There's definitely a typo here.
Now, there is nothing that the

1795
01:45:45,200 --> 01:45:48,480
is necessary for the salvation
of the soul that the Lord might

1796
01:45:48,480 --> 01:45:50,960
command that differs from the
covenant that He did enter into

1797
01:45:50,960 --> 01:45:52,680
with the Father and with the
Holy Ghost.

1798
01:45:53,920 --> 01:45:55,960
I'm not sure what that means.
Me neither.

1799
01:45:57,080 --> 01:46:00,360
Wherefore women, having already
received the saving grace and

1800
01:46:00,360 --> 01:46:02,440
Commission of the mother,
already possessed the priesthood

1801
01:46:02,440 --> 01:46:06,240
of God.
OK, so really, according to

1802
01:46:06,240 --> 01:46:10,880
them, you know, it, you could
narrow it down pretty quickly to

1803
01:46:10,880 --> 01:46:13,120
just about any woman because
they are born with the

1804
01:46:13,120 --> 01:46:16,440
priesthood, right?
If you go get that confirmation

1805
01:46:16,880 --> 01:46:21,200
now, I, I want to make sure I'm
understanding here correctly

1806
01:46:21,200 --> 01:46:23,640
before I, I level this next
criticism.

1807
01:46:24,480 --> 01:46:28,560
From what we just talked about,
the priesthood is not conferred

1808
01:46:28,560 --> 01:46:33,520
by men, but simply is confirmed
by men, right?

1809
01:46:33,680 --> 01:46:35,800
Basically, they lay your hands
upon your head.

1810
01:46:36,240 --> 01:46:40,800
And I say men or women, mankind,
they lay your hands upon your

1811
01:46:40,800 --> 01:46:43,840
head.
After you've been in the way and

1812
01:46:43,840 --> 01:46:46,600
felt like you received that
Commission of the priesthood,

1813
01:46:47,200 --> 01:46:50,920
you go to somebody, they confirm
it for you and say, Oh yeah, no,

1814
01:46:50,920 --> 01:46:55,640
you totally got it in the way,
and then you have the

1815
01:46:55,640 --> 01:46:57,520
priesthood.
Is that what I'm understanding?

1816
01:46:58,280 --> 01:47:00,880
I think so, although I didn't
see anything specifically saying

1817
01:47:00,880 --> 01:47:04,240
that they are confirming it.
I think they have to take you at

1818
01:47:04,240 --> 01:47:06,000
your word.
OK, All right.

1819
01:47:06,680 --> 01:47:11,040
So, Justin, do you remember, do
you recall, you'll see where I'm

1820
01:47:11,040 --> 01:47:13,560
going here.
Do you recall what Joseph said

1821
01:47:13,600 --> 01:47:17,640
about Heaven won't intervene
when there's earthly, you know,

1822
01:47:17,800 --> 01:47:22,440
earthly administrators present?
Right I I don't have it offhand,

1823
01:47:22,800 --> 01:47:27,000
but.
Basically, Taylor Taylor Smith

1824
01:47:27,000 --> 01:47:30,800
and I did an episode on that.
Basically, the Lord is not going

1825
01:47:30,800 --> 01:47:34,920
to send angels to administer an
ordinances when there's an

1826
01:47:34,920 --> 01:47:38,960
authorized representative on the
earth.

1827
01:47:39,400 --> 01:47:42,640
It's the reason the Lord told
told Paul to go see.

1828
01:47:42,640 --> 01:47:45,920
I can't remember what his name
was in, in the New Testament

1829
01:47:45,920 --> 01:47:49,000
after he was blind, right,
right.

1830
01:47:49,480 --> 01:47:54,400
And so this flies directly in
the face of that, does it not?

1831
01:47:54,400 --> 01:47:56,360
Am I am I missing something
here?

1832
01:47:57,240 --> 01:48:03,120
No, I think I would agree,
because the emphasis is entirely

1833
01:48:03,240 --> 01:48:06,280
the the priesthood is what you
receive in the way for the Holy

1834
01:48:06,280 --> 01:48:08,520
Ghost.
That's the priesthood through an

1835
01:48:08,520 --> 01:48:10,120
altar.
And then after that you just

1836
01:48:10,120 --> 01:48:12,320
have a guy put their hands on
your head.

1837
01:48:12,360 --> 01:48:15,680
Yes.
In an altered state, yeah, I

1838
01:48:15,680 --> 01:48:17,320
think it's fair to call it an
altered state.

1839
01:48:17,760 --> 01:48:19,920
I think so.
I think so.

1840
01:48:20,680 --> 01:48:21,960
Wow.
It's a, in fact.

1841
01:48:21,960 --> 01:48:24,320
It's such an altered state that
you could say it's even halfway

1842
01:48:24,320 --> 01:48:26,960
to translation, right?
Because in their temple doctrine

1843
01:48:27,480 --> 01:48:30,520
it, it explains more about that,
how it's you're kind of entering

1844
01:48:30,520 --> 01:48:34,120
into the terrestrial world, even
though your body's still in a,

1845
01:48:34,120 --> 01:48:37,760
in a, in a telestial world, your
spirit moves into a terrestrial

1846
01:48:37,760 --> 01:48:40,720
world in this state through this
meditation, so.

1847
01:48:41,480 --> 01:48:44,400
Interesting.
So they're also talking about by

1848
01:48:44,400 --> 01:48:48,120
being in the way and and
receiving this stuff that that

1849
01:48:48,120 --> 01:48:51,840
you you are kind of a translated
being at that point.

1850
01:48:53,160 --> 01:48:54,320
In in a in a.
Way.

1851
01:48:54,320 --> 01:48:58,400
Kind of, yeah.
In a way, not in the way.

1852
01:48:58,400 --> 01:49:00,680
OK, I got.
Yes, in our way.

1853
01:49:01,120 --> 01:49:07,040
Yeah, OK, perfect.
I I would believe so.

1854
01:49:07,160 --> 01:49:09,520
I that's the impression I get.
OK.

1855
01:49:11,000 --> 01:49:15,320
So anyways, but men, yeah, men
don't have this by birth.

1856
01:49:15,320 --> 01:49:20,880
And it just, it just kind of
explains how, how the women can

1857
01:49:20,880 --> 01:49:24,600
also have hands put on their
head to, to confirm it, but

1858
01:49:24,600 --> 01:49:28,520
they're not being confirmed that
they've received the priesthood

1859
01:49:28,520 --> 01:49:30,120
cause they've all already had
it.

1860
01:49:30,120 --> 01:49:33,560
They're just being I, I don't
know, I don't get, maybe it's

1861
01:49:33,560 --> 01:49:36,600
more of like a, a wedding versus
a ceiling, right?

1862
01:49:36,680 --> 01:49:39,400
I mean, ceiling's the covenant
and the ordinance with God.

1863
01:49:39,800 --> 01:49:43,560
A wedding is technically more of
just a, a ritual for show.

1864
01:49:43,600 --> 01:49:45,840
There's no actual.
Right.

1865
01:49:45,920 --> 01:49:50,280
Hour in a, in a in a marriage,
in a in a marriage celebration.

1866
01:49:50,720 --> 01:49:56,000
It's the the ceremony, the the
ordinance where where that takes

1867
01:49:56,000 --> 01:49:57,880
place.
Right.

1868
01:49:58,640 --> 01:50:02,680
Absolutely.
So this is a fun one.

1869
01:50:02,680 --> 01:50:05,200
They get into the issue of the
priesthood ban.

1870
01:50:06,600 --> 01:50:08,480
Oh, I can't wait to see what
this one has to say.

1871
01:50:09,600 --> 01:50:15,360
All right, we've got Morona
again in chapter 13, so starting

1872
01:50:15,360 --> 01:50:20,240
here in in verse 3.
And Noah did curse his son Ham,

1873
01:50:20,360 --> 01:50:24,720
and he was denied the thing that
is most to be desired, even that

1874
01:50:24,720 --> 01:50:27,640
which allows a man to gain
access to heavenly beings and to

1875
01:50:27,640 --> 01:50:30,920
emerge from out of this clay and
set aside the beast.

1876
01:50:32,080 --> 01:50:35,520
For this is that heritage which
might have been sufficient to

1877
01:50:35,520 --> 01:50:40,080
correct in Ham that aberration
of character which led him into

1878
01:50:40,080 --> 01:50:43,440
unnatural love.
But Ham, being caught up in the

1879
01:50:43,440 --> 01:50:46,400
carnal lust of his heart, knew
not what he had lost.

1880
01:50:47,840 --> 01:50:51,840
So if you don't know what he's
talking about, priesthood.

1881
01:50:52,400 --> 01:50:55,640
Right.
And so they're saying here that

1882
01:50:55,880 --> 01:51:01,080
Ham lost the priesthood because
of this aberration in him

1883
01:51:01,280 --> 01:51:05,280
towards unnatural love.
Is he talking about Cain being a

1884
01:51:05,280 --> 01:51:07,080
homosexual?
Is that what he's getting out

1885
01:51:07,080 --> 01:51:09,200
there, Justin?
It seems.

1886
01:51:09,840 --> 01:51:13,000
Well, specifically, I think he's
saying that Ham is a homosexual.

1887
01:51:13,360 --> 01:51:15,560
That's what I'm saying.
Yeah.

1888
01:51:15,560 --> 01:51:19,440
And I can't remember, I, I could
be wrong on this one, but I do

1889
01:51:19,440 --> 01:51:22,680
believe somewhere in the record,
it specifically even describes

1890
01:51:22,680 --> 01:51:28,200
that like the, the, you know,
Cain Ham coming upon Noah when

1891
01:51:28,200 --> 01:51:32,960
he was drunk and seeing him
naked and his other brothers

1892
01:51:33,240 --> 01:51:35,480
walk in backwards and cover him
because they don't want to look,

1893
01:51:35,600 --> 01:51:38,560
is this allusion to this idea
that Ham is a homosexual.

1894
01:51:40,840 --> 01:51:44,840
And it's, it's his homosexuality
and his practice of

1895
01:51:44,840 --> 01:51:48,240
homosexuality that curses him to
the priesthood.

1896
01:51:48,960 --> 01:51:53,160
Right.
So, but let's talk about Pharaoh

1897
01:51:55,120 --> 01:51:58,280
and Pharaoh his grandson thought
he was reported to be.

1898
01:51:58,320 --> 01:52:01,200
Though he was reported to be a
righteous man and a righteous

1899
01:52:01,200 --> 01:52:05,200
king, nevertheless he did
preserve a heritage of

1900
01:52:05,200 --> 01:52:08,160
wickedness because of that thing
which of his father's that he

1901
01:52:08,160 --> 01:52:13,440
chose to continue early.
He did no injury to his fellow

1902
01:52:13,440 --> 01:52:16,160
man, but he was caught up in the
carnality to which his

1903
01:52:16,160 --> 01:52:20,160
grandfather fell prey.
Behold, this is the curse that

1904
01:52:20,160 --> 01:52:25,280
was preserved by Pharaoh and by
Egyptus, for through them the

1905
01:52:25,280 --> 01:52:29,520
same curse continued.
OK.

1906
01:52:30,040 --> 01:52:35,240
So here he he again directly
contradicts what's been revealed

1907
01:52:35,240 --> 01:52:37,240
in other scripture, right?
Right.

1908
01:52:37,840 --> 01:52:41,880
Because it does say in the Pearl
of Great Price that Pharaoh was

1909
01:52:41,920 --> 01:52:44,480
a righteous man, right?
Right, it does.

1910
01:52:44,800 --> 01:52:50,880
And so here it's saying that.
He was a righteous man, but he

1911
01:52:50,880 --> 01:52:53,440
was.
He had this, I don't know, major

1912
01:52:53,440 --> 01:52:56,120
flaw.
Some kind of unnatural love.

1913
01:52:56,120 --> 01:52:58,400
I don't know for sure if it's
homosexuality, maybe it's

1914
01:52:58,400 --> 01:53:01,240
incest.
It's something like that though,

1915
01:53:01,240 --> 01:53:02,760
right?
Right.

1916
01:53:04,160 --> 01:53:07,400
If this was a major sticking
point, don't you think the Lord

1917
01:53:07,400 --> 01:53:09,160
would have told Joseph about
some of this?

1918
01:53:10,080 --> 01:53:13,760
I mean, I think that Noah would
have told Pharaoh some of this

1919
01:53:13,760 --> 01:53:15,840
when he's saying, hey, I can't
give you the priesthood.

1920
01:53:17,040 --> 01:53:17,800
He was said.
I can't.

1921
01:53:17,800 --> 01:53:21,760
Give you the priesthood because
you're gay, or you're in such a

1922
01:53:21,840 --> 01:53:24,520
relationship with or whatever it
might be, right?

1923
01:53:24,640 --> 01:53:28,680
Right.
Not sorry.

1924
01:53:29,880 --> 01:53:32,960
Yeah.
Interesting.

1925
01:53:32,960 --> 01:53:35,360
And how do you call somebody a
righteous king and a righteous

1926
01:53:35,360 --> 01:53:38,080
man?
Like they're living in sin.

1927
01:53:38,880 --> 01:53:46,040
Well, that's just it, right?
I mean, look, I don't have, I'm

1928
01:53:46,040 --> 01:53:50,480
certainly not somebody who is an
advocate for that community,

1929
01:53:50,600 --> 01:53:59,680
right, for the LGBTQ community.
And so with that, though, again,

1930
01:53:59,680 --> 01:54:03,800
if this was the major sin that
was committed, I would have

1931
01:54:03,800 --> 01:54:07,400
expect Joseph to have had some
revelation on it.

1932
01:54:07,400 --> 01:54:12,120
A little bit more to elaborate.
And here it looks like

1933
01:54:12,120 --> 01:54:14,960
somebody's taking a lot of
liberties with existing

1934
01:54:14,960 --> 01:54:17,600
scripture to the point that
they're contradicting it, right?

1935
01:54:18,080 --> 01:54:24,920
It would be hard for me to call
somebody who is living an LGBTQ

1936
01:54:24,920 --> 01:54:30,840
lifestyle a righteous man.
That's, that's all there is to

1937
01:54:30,880 --> 01:54:32,600
it, right?
I'm, I'm not casting.

1938
01:54:33,040 --> 01:54:35,320
I'm not.
Saying, hey, I'll be honest, I

1939
01:54:35,360 --> 01:54:37,000
don't consider myself a
righteous man.

1940
01:54:37,120 --> 01:54:39,360
Right, right.
Exactly.

1941
01:54:39,720 --> 01:54:42,960
And I'm not a homosexual, but
I've got I've got my issues.

1942
01:54:43,200 --> 01:54:44,320
The things.
That I struggle with.

1943
01:54:44,560 --> 01:54:50,680
And so I'm not comfortable
putting that label on me, but

1944
01:54:50,680 --> 01:54:54,680
I'm also not comfortable putting
that label on somebody who is

1945
01:54:54,840 --> 01:54:57,440
essentially being called out
here, is not able to hold the

1946
01:54:57,440 --> 01:55:01,040
priesthood for some kind of
unnatural sexual sin.

1947
01:55:01,360 --> 01:55:04,840
Yep, Yep.
That just doesn't make sense.

1948
01:55:05,120 --> 01:55:08,480
Me.
And again, it just it blatantly

1949
01:55:09,000 --> 01:55:12,200
flies in the face of what's
revealed in the Book of Abraham,

1950
01:55:12,200 --> 01:55:14,120
where it says Pharaoh was a
righteous man.

1951
01:55:15,040 --> 01:55:18,760
Right so in verse 5 and behold,
the scriptures assure us that

1952
01:55:18,760 --> 01:55:22,320
Pharaoh desired what he thought
to be the right of priesthood,

1953
01:55:22,320 --> 01:55:26,120
but he was denied because of the
curse which he had helped to

1954
01:55:26,120 --> 01:55:27,880
preserve.
And all his descendants who

1955
01:55:27,880 --> 01:55:30,440
would not repent of this evil
were also denied the Commission

1956
01:55:30,440 --> 01:55:35,240
of the Lord.
So the idea here is that this

1957
01:55:35,240 --> 01:55:45,960
this curse is a sexual sin that
is being continued among the

1958
01:55:45,960 --> 01:55:49,520
family.
OK, can can I make a point here

1959
01:55:49,520 --> 01:55:55,000
of some some inconsistency
within itself, within the record

1960
01:55:55,000 --> 01:55:59,760
here We just went through that
someone receives priesthood

1961
01:55:59,760 --> 01:56:03,840
while being in the way and the
Spirit makes that Commission

1962
01:56:04,520 --> 01:56:08,520
right?
But here in verse 3 it's saying

1963
01:56:08,520 --> 01:56:12,720
something different because it
says Noah did curse his son Ham

1964
01:56:13,360 --> 01:56:20,960
and and he was let me Noah did
curse his son Ham and he was

1965
01:56:20,960 --> 01:56:26,800
denied the thing that is most to
be desired the.

1966
01:56:26,800 --> 01:56:29,640
Priest.
There, There's an internal

1967
01:56:29,640 --> 01:56:33,800
inconsistency here, right?
Why, if this is the way it's

1968
01:56:33,800 --> 01:56:39,480
supposed to go, that you enter
the way to get priesthood, why

1969
01:56:39,480 --> 01:56:41,560
is Noah the one that gets to
decide it?

1970
01:56:41,560 --> 01:56:43,680
You see the internal
inconsistency there?

1971
01:56:44,440 --> 01:56:46,840
They're going to clarify it.
Yes, I do.

1972
01:56:47,200 --> 01:56:48,680
They're going to, they're going
to further realize.

1973
01:56:49,120 --> 01:56:52,720
That's the thing.
It's really hard because you see

1974
01:56:52,720 --> 01:56:56,280
these verses that taken by
themselves do absolutely

1975
01:56:56,280 --> 01:57:00,360
directly contradict, OK, other
teachings, other scriptures.

1976
01:57:00,800 --> 01:57:08,280
But then you'll see a few verses
later an explanation of sorts,

1977
01:57:08,280 --> 01:57:10,840
right?
And it's really kind of slippery

1978
01:57:10,880 --> 01:57:15,080
because even though they gave an
an explanation later, why wasn't

1979
01:57:15,080 --> 01:57:20,120
the explanation given upfront
right before it contradicted

1980
01:57:20,120 --> 01:57:21,360
itself?
Yeah.

1981
01:57:22,120 --> 01:57:23,640
Right.
Yep.

1982
01:57:24,160 --> 01:57:26,440
And I think it's because it's
trying to.

1983
01:57:27,320 --> 01:57:30,840
I think the reason why is
because it's trying to come up

1984
01:57:30,840 --> 01:57:35,880
with a an explanation for how
their version of the priesthood

1985
01:57:35,880 --> 01:57:41,960
works compared to what you see
in Abraham, in the Book of

1986
01:57:41,960 --> 01:57:44,360
Abraham.
And so they're trying to, you

1987
01:57:44,360 --> 01:57:49,720
know, come up with a way of
bridging these things together,

1988
01:57:49,720 --> 01:57:55,240
which can be a little bit messy,
right, And can require some

1989
01:57:55,240 --> 01:57:56,880
things that kind of
contradictory.

1990
01:57:56,880 --> 01:58:03,240
And yeah, it's a little messy.
So let's get to that point.

1991
01:58:03,240 --> 01:58:04,960
OK.
So.

1992
01:58:05,320 --> 01:58:08,720
And behold, it would have been
for Pharaoh just as it is for

1993
01:58:08,720 --> 01:58:14,360
any man.
In other words, Pharaoh could

1994
01:58:14,360 --> 01:58:17,880
have held the priesthood if he
wanted to it just as anybody

1995
01:58:17,880 --> 01:58:19,480
else can.
He could have.

1996
01:58:20,160 --> 01:58:22,560
If we want to become like our
Lord, then we must do as he

1997
01:58:22,560 --> 01:58:27,880
does.
So it's what's kept Pharaoh was

1998
01:58:28,760 --> 01:58:32,520
his disobedience.
But otherwise, there is nothing

1999
01:58:32,520 --> 01:58:34,840
that would prevent.
So I mean, here's the thing.

2000
01:58:34,840 --> 01:58:41,560
I agree with the conclusion that
at least as of today, there is

2001
01:58:41,560 --> 01:58:46,920
no priesthood ban in effect on a
certain race of people 'cause

2002
01:58:46,920 --> 01:58:49,760
that is the net effect of what
they're explaining here, right?

2003
01:58:49,760 --> 01:58:53,040
Would produce.
And I agree with, I actually

2004
01:58:53,040 --> 01:58:56,000
agree with the outcome.
I don't agree with how they they

2005
01:58:56,000 --> 01:58:58,200
finagle their way to that idea
though, right?

2006
01:58:58,200 --> 01:59:01,440
Right.
So it says wherefore, because

2007
01:59:01,440 --> 01:59:04,600
Pharaoh took up the sin of his
father's and also of Egyptus,

2008
01:59:04,600 --> 01:59:07,480
the Lord denied him his
Commission, and he had no right

2009
01:59:07,480 --> 01:59:10,960
to the priesthood.
So in other words, the holy, he

2010
01:59:10,960 --> 01:59:13,920
didn't come to him by the Holy
Ghost because he was living in

2011
01:59:13,920 --> 01:59:16,600
sin, and that's why he didn't
get the priesthood.

2012
01:59:17,240 --> 01:59:23,080
Interesting.
It doesn't completely explain

2013
01:59:23,080 --> 01:59:27,040
though why Noah is the one that
curses him as to that right.

2014
01:59:27,200 --> 01:59:28,600
I know.
No, it does not.

2015
01:59:28,920 --> 01:59:31,000
It also doesn't say.
That internal.

2016
01:59:31,000 --> 01:59:34,480
It doesn't say of that race.
Right, that internal.

2017
01:59:34,480 --> 01:59:38,240
And it says, it says of that
race which does not have the

2018
01:59:38,240 --> 01:59:40,800
right to the right hood.
Right.

2019
01:59:41,920 --> 01:59:45,560
Yeah, yeah, it it still has an
internal inconsistency here.

2020
01:59:46,160 --> 01:59:49,880
Yeah, Yep.
And I'm just going to kind of

2021
01:59:49,880 --> 01:59:53,280
jump around here, verse 10, He
may give us authority to convey

2022
01:59:53,280 --> 01:59:56,160
this gospel to all the world and
to confer priesthood upon

2023
01:59:56,160 --> 01:59:59,160
everyone, but without the
Commission received by the gift

2024
01:59:59,160 --> 02:00:03,280
of revelation, the conferring of
priesthood is as the sound of a

2025
02:00:03,280 --> 02:00:08,280
drum, beautiful but not lasting.
So it's basically challenging

2026
02:00:08,360 --> 02:00:11,920
The Mormon church says
priesthood as well through this,

2027
02:00:11,960 --> 02:00:15,680
right?
And I actually I'm not going to

2028
02:00:15,680 --> 02:00:21,120
cover this topic, but.
Man, oh man, this record goes

2029
02:00:21,120 --> 02:00:27,480
against the LDS church so hard.
And obviously as as a

2030
02:00:27,480 --> 02:00:31,520
fundamentalist, I'm not the
biggest fan of the LDS church

2031
02:00:31,520 --> 02:00:32,840
and the things that are going on
there.

2032
02:00:33,400 --> 02:00:37,560
Nevertheless, I found the
railings against the LDS church

2033
02:00:37,560 --> 02:00:43,040
to be so extreme that I found
myself something to the LDS

2034
02:00:43,040 --> 02:00:44,440
Church's defense as I'm reading
it.

2035
02:00:44,440 --> 02:00:47,320
Like, no, that's not, it's not
that bad and I don't think it's.

2036
02:00:48,280 --> 02:00:51,200
Which is wild, right?
Right, right.

2037
02:00:51,480 --> 02:00:56,520
Who had the judgement so harsh
that I'm sitting here thinking,

2038
02:00:56,520 --> 02:00:59,360
no, there's still there's a lot
of good happening in the LDS

2039
02:00:59,360 --> 02:01:02,440
church still And there's a lot
of I mean, I received my

2040
02:01:02,440 --> 02:01:07,760
testimony reading the Book of
Mormon thanks to the guidance of

2041
02:01:07,760 --> 02:01:11,360
the LDS Church to for me to
telling me to read it, telling

2042
02:01:11,360 --> 02:01:13,080
me to prepare to go on a
mission.

2043
02:01:13,080 --> 02:01:16,360
I served a mission for the LDS
church, which is I mean, I owe a

2044
02:01:16,360 --> 02:01:20,760
lot to the LDS church and I am
not in any way whatsoever

2045
02:01:21,720 --> 02:01:25,160
consider them to be an evil
organization.

2046
02:01:26,560 --> 02:01:30,000
There might be specific topics
where I think that things have

2047
02:01:30,000 --> 02:01:34,720
gone, gone astray, but as far as
the Book of Mormon, Joseph

2048
02:01:34,720 --> 02:01:38,320
Smith, the Restoration, the
gospel of Jesus Christ, things

2049
02:01:38,320 --> 02:01:41,960
like that, I think they do a
pretty good job.

2050
02:01:42,000 --> 02:01:43,760
I mean, I mean, I, I'm a product
of it.

2051
02:01:44,120 --> 02:01:47,800
Yeah, so, so is Mason, right?
I mean, we're, we're all

2052
02:01:47,800 --> 02:01:51,360
products of that.
And it it is weird times because

2053
02:01:51,360 --> 02:01:54,600
I'm about to drop an episode
where I, where I defend the LDS

2054
02:01:54,600 --> 02:01:58,800
church against a couple of
attackers recently, which which

2055
02:01:58,800 --> 02:02:01,320
is weird, right?
I mean, you wouldn't expect the

2056
02:02:01,320 --> 02:02:04,320
the fundamentalist podcast guy
didn't necessarily go go out

2057
02:02:04,320 --> 02:02:07,720
there swinging on their behalf.
But it is I want to point

2058
02:02:07,720 --> 02:02:12,360
something out here in 10 when in
10 where it says He is.

2059
02:02:12,440 --> 02:02:16,040
Are they talking about the Lord?
Yes.

2060
02:02:16,280 --> 02:02:18,680
OK, so again.
Capital he They always

2061
02:02:18,680 --> 02:02:21,600
capitalize.
Again here another

2062
02:02:21,600 --> 02:02:25,400
inconsistency.
He may give us an give unto us

2063
02:02:25,400 --> 02:02:30,800
authority to convey the this
gospel to all the world and to

2064
02:02:30,800 --> 02:02:36,440
confer priesthood upon everyone.
Again, according to the way you

2065
02:02:36,440 --> 02:02:39,120
go into the way, you get the
priesthood that way.

2066
02:02:39,160 --> 02:02:41,720
Right here it starts.
No, yeah, that's that is their

2067
02:02:41,720 --> 02:02:43,480
point.
So they're basically saying you

2068
02:02:43,480 --> 02:02:48,000
don't hold priesthood, Dave?
Oh, OK, interesting.

2069
02:02:48,400 --> 02:02:52,000
You know, just because somebody
has the priesthood and they can

2070
02:02:52,000 --> 02:02:56,000
confirm that somebody else, you
know, through the laying out of

2071
02:02:56,000 --> 02:02:59,520
hands who received the
priesthood through the way, what

2072
02:02:59,520 --> 02:03:01,560
they're saying is if you don't
get it through the way and I

2073
02:03:01,560 --> 02:03:04,280
just laid my hands on you.
Oh, I see.

2074
02:03:04,360 --> 02:03:05,880
I see what they're saying.
OK.

2075
02:03:06,040 --> 02:03:07,840
But without the Commission
received by the gift of

2076
02:03:07,840 --> 02:03:10,160
revelation, the conferring of
priesthood is as the sound of a

2077
02:03:10,160 --> 02:03:14,800
drum, beautiful but not lasting.
And when the sound of the drum

2078
02:03:14,800 --> 02:03:21,640
beat is gone, what is left of
priesthood but memory?

2079
02:03:23,120 --> 02:03:26,560
So melodramatic.
Very melodramatic, yes.

2080
02:03:28,200 --> 02:03:30,800
But yeah, that's that's a jab if
you didn't notice.

2081
02:03:31,040 --> 02:03:31,720
I did.
Yeah.

2082
02:03:32,000 --> 02:03:36,960
I picked up.
Yeah, so in in sarcasm.

2083
02:03:37,840 --> 02:03:44,360
Yep, Yep.
So OK, I'm going to skip just to

2084
02:03:44,360 --> 02:03:46,240
this real quick.
So basically the idea here is,

2085
02:03:46,240 --> 02:03:50,680
and therein is the thing verse
45 square after that next

2086
02:03:50,680 --> 02:03:53,040
chapter, verse 45.
And herein is the thing which

2087
02:03:53,040 --> 02:03:55,880
Pharaoh did error.
Behold, he claimed the right of

2088
02:03:55,880 --> 02:03:58,840
his father's to obtain knowledge
of all things and sit upon the

2089
02:03:58,840 --> 02:04:01,240
right hand of God.
And he was not an evil man name,

2090
02:04:01,240 --> 02:04:03,080
nor did he exercise evil upon
his people.

2091
02:04:03,080 --> 02:04:06,880
But he did consider that because
he was a son of Noah that he

2092
02:04:06,880 --> 02:04:09,000
could lay claim to the
priesthood given to his

2093
02:04:09,000 --> 02:04:10,640
father's.
But he sought not the Commission

2094
02:04:10,640 --> 02:04:14,640
of the Lord, before laying claim
to the work of his father's.

2095
02:04:14,640 --> 02:04:16,120
OK, there it is.
So.

2096
02:04:16,920 --> 02:04:20,800
Where Pharaoh went wrong was
thinking that that Noah could

2097
02:04:20,800 --> 02:04:22,960
give him priesthood.
Right.

2098
02:04:23,440 --> 02:04:26,080
Because Noah can't.
He has to get it himself.

2099
02:04:26,080 --> 02:04:28,080
That's that's that's Pharaoh's
mistake.

2100
02:04:31,000 --> 02:04:36,360
It's it's not even necessarily
the the veiled allusion to to

2101
02:04:36,360 --> 02:04:40,400
homosexuality.
It's that the big, big sin is he

2102
02:04:40,400 --> 02:04:43,240
didn't get it through the way.
Right.

2103
02:04:43,720 --> 02:04:47,520
He thought he could receive it.
He thought everybody should be

2104
02:04:47,520 --> 02:04:49,520
able to receive it.
As a son of Adam, as a

2105
02:04:49,520 --> 02:04:51,440
descendant of Adam.
Shouldn't everybody receive the

2106
02:04:51,440 --> 02:04:52,760
priesthood?
No.

2107
02:04:52,760 --> 02:04:54,400
Wrong.
You don't get it because

2108
02:04:56,240 --> 02:04:58,760
everybody can have it.
You just receive it in the way.

2109
02:04:59,360 --> 02:05:01,400
Right.
So it's a.

2110
02:05:01,400 --> 02:05:02,240
It's a.
Weird.

2111
02:05:02,920 --> 02:05:06,200
Yeah, again, just a lot of
gymnastics going on here.

2112
02:05:06,200 --> 02:05:09,640
Somebody is.
There's a very, very flexible

2113
02:05:09,640 --> 02:05:15,680
gymnast happening, you know,
tying this together, connecting

2114
02:05:15,680 --> 02:05:20,840
these ideas, trying to harmonize
something that inherently really

2115
02:05:20,840 --> 02:05:23,520
cannot harmonize, at least not
this way.

2116
02:05:28,360 --> 02:05:31,960
So right, That's that's that.
OK.

2117
02:05:31,960 --> 02:05:34,200
So that's priesthood.
Uh huh.

2118
02:05:34,920 --> 02:05:39,920
OK, OK, so.
And there's one last thing here.

2119
02:05:39,920 --> 02:05:42,000
I'm just trying to see if this
is this new, this is might be a

2120
02:05:42,000 --> 02:05:44,880
new point.
Oh, yeah.

2121
02:05:44,880 --> 02:05:49,160
So this is jumping back to there
was a high priest who was who

2122
02:05:49,160 --> 02:05:57,360
decided to be more like an LDS
apostle and start saying that,

2123
02:05:57,360 --> 02:05:59,120
you know, you have to be
ordained to the priesthood.

2124
02:05:59,120 --> 02:06:01,680
You start saying men can't hold
the priesthood and be ordained

2125
02:06:01,680 --> 02:06:06,040
to this.
I'm in this kind of very LAX way

2126
02:06:06,520 --> 02:06:08,520
that is being described, right?
Right.

2127
02:06:09,400 --> 02:06:12,920
He's saying that you have to
receive your ordinances from

2128
02:06:12,920 --> 02:06:16,960
somebody who holds keys and you
know all that, all that stuff.

2129
02:06:16,960 --> 02:06:18,280
We went over those points,
right?

2130
02:06:18,760 --> 02:06:21,920
Yep.
So this is again, in reference

2131
02:06:21,920 --> 02:06:26,400
to that dude.
And so it says that this dude,

2132
02:06:26,400 --> 02:06:29,400
this, this fault, this fallen
high priest, he did walk upon

2133
02:06:29,400 --> 02:06:33,480
the way for a time, but behold,
he ceased to subject all things

2134
02:06:33,480 --> 02:06:36,440
unto the confirmation of the
Holy Ghost, and so much that he

2135
02:06:36,440 --> 02:06:38,760
did begin to interpret every
thought that did come into his

2136
02:06:38,760 --> 02:06:40,920
mind and into his heart as the
word and will of God.

2137
02:06:41,400 --> 02:06:43,800
And because of this, he did
begin to place constraints upon

2138
02:06:43,800 --> 02:06:46,760
the personal revelation that is
the right of every person.

2139
02:06:48,080 --> 02:06:51,200
So they're saying that this,
this fallen high priest actually

2140
02:06:51,200 --> 02:06:53,960
is not a bad guy.
Right.

2141
02:06:54,040 --> 02:06:58,160
He just, he forgot, he, he
received a revelation and he

2142
02:06:58,160 --> 02:07:01,040
forgot to ask if it was true and
and that's why he got off.

2143
02:07:02,400 --> 02:07:04,840
So yay.
When he did call upon his fellow

2144
02:07:04,840 --> 02:07:06,920
service to fill certain
stewardships, he did declare

2145
02:07:06,920 --> 02:07:09,080
unto them that they had no
choice in the matter.

2146
02:07:11,000 --> 02:07:12,440
So that's one of the way places
he go.

2147
02:07:12,520 --> 02:07:15,200
So if he calls you and says, I
want you to fill this calling,

2148
02:07:16,560 --> 02:07:21,200
apparently they had no choice.
They had to, which is odd

2149
02:07:21,200 --> 02:07:24,520
because I don't know why they're
harping on that, because this is

2150
02:07:24,520 --> 02:07:27,520
a good thing 'cause they also
changed the law of consecration

2151
02:07:27,520 --> 02:07:31,600
so that the priests get don't
have to work and they get all

2152
02:07:31,600 --> 02:07:33,120
the all the food and stuff they
want.

2153
02:07:33,120 --> 02:07:38,000
So it'd be a pretty good place
to be called into this

2154
02:07:38,000 --> 02:07:40,440
priestess.
I'm not sure why he's coercing

2155
02:07:40,440 --> 02:07:42,640
people into it.
Right.

2156
02:07:43,160 --> 02:07:48,960
But apparently he was.
So in other words, he taught

2157
02:07:48,960 --> 02:07:52,200
them that they ought not to
importune the Lord in the matter

2158
02:07:52,200 --> 02:07:55,880
because that he had already
received the word of the Lord.

2159
02:07:57,120 --> 02:07:59,440
And I'm I'm down low.
I don't think you should use.

2160
02:07:59,480 --> 02:08:01,840
They'll use the priesthood to
compel somebody into calling.

2161
02:08:02,200 --> 02:08:04,840
No, no, no, no and and.
But.

2162
02:08:05,840 --> 02:08:09,160
You know you do want to get your
own witness on on all gospel

2163
02:08:09,160 --> 02:08:10,920
principles, right?
Exactly.

2164
02:08:11,840 --> 02:08:14,000
So this is another kind of
poison pill verse because

2165
02:08:14,560 --> 02:08:17,720
there's something that I agree
with in principle and then it's

2166
02:08:17,720 --> 02:08:19,960
directly connected with
something else that that flies

2167
02:08:19,960 --> 02:08:22,480
in the face of of my own
religious beliefs, which is.

2168
02:08:23,240 --> 02:08:26,640
And also he did begin to teach
that only the high priest had

2169
02:08:26,640 --> 02:08:30,000
the keys to prophecy and receive
revelation for and in behalf of

2170
02:08:30,000 --> 02:08:36,120
the whole nation.
So prior to this guy, then

2171
02:08:36,120 --> 02:08:39,080
apparently anybody who receives
priesthood on the way has

2172
02:08:39,080 --> 02:08:44,200
authority to also give
revelations and prophecies to

2173
02:08:44,520 --> 02:08:51,040
everybody.
So wherefore the individual had

2174
02:08:51,040 --> 02:08:54,760
no more right to such things for
the Lord had chosen him to be

2175
02:08:54,760 --> 02:08:56,920
his seer.
I don't think we do have a right

2176
02:08:56,920 --> 02:09:01,520
to we, I don't think we have a
right to by virtue of

2177
02:09:01,520 --> 02:09:04,080
priesthood.
I don't think we have a right to

2178
02:09:05,160 --> 02:09:11,280
basically deliver prophecies and
revelations unto unto the entire

2179
02:09:11,280 --> 02:09:12,960
nation or the entire church,
right.

2180
02:09:12,960 --> 02:09:17,640
There's a reason why there is a
hierarchy to priesthood.

2181
02:09:20,320 --> 02:09:24,400
Right it yeah, and and the other
thing I'll say here too is that

2182
02:09:25,640 --> 02:09:29,480
he's like, I can see where where
he where they're trying to go

2183
02:09:29,480 --> 02:09:32,160
here, right.
They're trying to to kind of

2184
02:09:32,160 --> 02:09:34,400
maybe get rid of one man ISM,
right?

2185
02:09:35,800 --> 02:09:38,480
And and again, I, I'm not a
believer in the one man

2186
02:09:38,480 --> 02:09:41,320
doctrine.
However, I don't think you can

2187
02:09:41,320 --> 02:09:44,920
use this as justification on
getting there in a solid way,

2188
02:09:45,080 --> 02:09:48,160
right I think.
This is this isn't anti one man

2189
02:09:48,160 --> 02:09:50,720
ISM.
This is all man ISM.

2190
02:09:51,040 --> 02:09:53,040
Right.
Yeah, Yep.

2191
02:09:53,560 --> 02:09:55,720
And I don't agree with that.
I don't believe in one man ISM,

2192
02:09:55,720 --> 02:09:57,600
but I also don't agree with all
man ISM.

2193
02:09:57,800 --> 02:09:59,960
No, no.
You know, there was something

2194
02:09:59,960 --> 02:10:03,360
else that was set up there in
verse 5 that I think deserves

2195
02:10:03,360 --> 02:10:06,760
some discussion here too.
And where he said he did begin

2196
02:10:06,760 --> 02:10:10,640
to place constraints upon the
personal revelation that is the

2197
02:10:10,640 --> 02:10:13,720
right of every person.
Right now.

2198
02:10:15,280 --> 02:10:18,800
I am four people getting their
own revelation, right?

2199
02:10:18,840 --> 02:10:23,880
I I truly am.
However, let's be honest, not

2200
02:10:23,880 --> 02:10:26,520
all revelation is created equal,
right?

2201
02:10:28,440 --> 02:10:31,480
I can think of many times where
people have said things that

2202
02:10:31,480 --> 02:10:35,960
hey, the Lord told me this, but
it yet it flies directly in the

2203
02:10:35,960 --> 02:10:40,200
face of something that Joseph
had taught or that even the Lord

2204
02:10:40,200 --> 02:10:43,640
had taught, right?
And so where are the bounds on

2205
02:10:43,640 --> 02:10:48,480
this right?
If you something in in the way,

2206
02:10:48,480 --> 02:10:51,640
right.
And look, I know I don't know a

2207
02:10:51,640 --> 02:10:57,480
ton, but I do know that this the
after doing a little bit of

2208
02:10:57,480 --> 02:11:02,760
looking that the way is
practiced in the modern Nim and

2209
02:11:02,760 --> 02:11:05,880
Ha church, for lack of a better
term, I don't know what you'd

2210
02:11:05,960 --> 02:11:09,880
call it.
And so my question then becomes,

2211
02:11:10,600 --> 02:11:15,560
OK, if, if everybody has the
right to revelation, which I

2212
02:11:15,560 --> 02:11:19,440
believe, then how do you
decipher between what's right

2213
02:11:19,440 --> 02:11:25,320
and what's wrong, right?
How, how do you make sure that

2214
02:11:25,320 --> 02:11:28,640
you're staying within kind of
the pale of Orthodoxy, right?

2215
02:11:30,560 --> 02:11:34,840
I believe that things Joseph
revealed were important, right?

2216
02:11:35,200 --> 02:11:37,640
And, and Joseph told you that
they were important.

2217
02:11:37,640 --> 02:11:41,040
Again, if someone preaches to
you a doctrine or doctrine that

2218
02:11:41,040 --> 02:11:43,800
is contrary to what I taught
you, you can set him aside as an

2219
02:11:43,800 --> 02:11:48,280
imposter is what he says.
So let.

2220
02:11:48,320 --> 02:11:49,600
Me.
Let me give a great example,

2221
02:11:49,600 --> 02:11:54,600
right?
I get revelation that, hey, you

2222
02:11:54,600 --> 02:11:58,080
know what, I ought to move and
come out to Missouri.

2223
02:11:58,360 --> 02:12:00,520
Sure.
Personally, I don't think I, I,

2224
02:12:00,520 --> 02:12:04,920
I don't think that any
priesthood authority can place a

2225
02:12:04,920 --> 02:12:08,120
constraint upon my personal
revelation of that type, right.

2226
02:12:08,240 --> 02:12:12,520
No.
But what if I say, hey, I was in

2227
02:12:12,520 --> 02:12:19,200
the way and I received a
revelation that I'm supposed to

2228
02:12:19,200 --> 02:12:22,360
marry you.
You're supposed to be my wife.

2229
02:12:23,080 --> 02:12:25,400
I went to the temple and I
prayed in the celestial room.

2230
02:12:25,760 --> 02:12:28,040
And even though we've never met
and this is the first time

2231
02:12:28,040 --> 02:12:31,880
talking to you and this is our
first date, you're supposed to

2232
02:12:31,880 --> 02:12:35,120
be my wife.
That's the way they do it at

2233
02:12:35,120 --> 02:12:36,520
BYUI.
Think I don't know.

2234
02:12:38,920 --> 02:12:44,360
Used to I.
Don't know if they so sorry, I

2235
02:12:44,360 --> 02:12:46,480
want to get too cynical here.
My bad.

2236
02:12:47,920 --> 02:12:53,440
All right.
Yeah, no, Joseph Smith explains

2237
02:12:53,440 --> 02:12:56,400
this right, 'cause Joseph Smith
had this issue come up in the

2238
02:12:56,400 --> 02:12:58,280
early days of the Restoration.
People coming up.

2239
02:12:58,280 --> 02:13:01,520
Hey, I found a cedar stone too,
and my cedar stone's telling me

2240
02:13:01,520 --> 02:13:05,520
that, you know, I'm supposed to
be the Prophet or I've got

2241
02:13:05,520 --> 02:13:07,720
Melchizedek Priesthood, even
though I haven't been ordained

2242
02:13:07,720 --> 02:13:09,800
to it.
Or I mean, a lot of the stuff

2243
02:13:09,800 --> 02:13:12,640
actually we're looking at here
in the Stemmenhart record, a lot

2244
02:13:12,640 --> 02:13:16,840
of some of these kinds of ideas
were coming out and, and Joseph

2245
02:13:16,840 --> 02:13:20,400
Smith clarified that, no, now
you, you have a right to

2246
02:13:20,400 --> 02:13:23,320
personal revelation, but
revelation to the church or the

2247
02:13:23,320 --> 02:13:31,800
nation that requires a certain
position and he ain't got it.

2248
02:13:33,840 --> 02:13:37,080
And so I would agree with their
faults.

2249
02:13:38,000 --> 02:13:42,760
A priest here that supposedly
fell that in some of these

2250
02:13:42,760 --> 02:13:44,440
issues, right?
But for some of the issues, he

2251
02:13:44,440 --> 02:13:46,360
goes to an extreme where I would
disagree.

2252
02:13:46,360 --> 02:13:49,320
So you know, it's a mixed bag,
but.

2253
02:13:50,080 --> 02:13:52,240
Absolutely.
It's an.

2254
02:13:52,320 --> 02:13:54,360
It's it's an.
Interesting take on priesthood.

2255
02:13:54,360 --> 02:13:57,560
It kind of makes the priesthood
everything and nothing at the

2256
02:13:57,560 --> 02:14:01,760
same time.
To me it loses its value but

2257
02:14:01,760 --> 02:14:04,320
maintains but they maintain its
necessity.

2258
02:14:04,360 --> 02:14:08,040
But what is it?
What is the point of priesthood

2259
02:14:08,040 --> 02:14:12,000
if if you just receive it via
the spirit, then what's the

2260
02:14:12,000 --> 02:14:16,440
point of having offices and
ordaining by hand on by land?

2261
02:14:16,440 --> 02:14:17,800
I mean, what's where does that
all?

2262
02:14:18,240 --> 02:14:20,960
Right, right where?
Does it all fit in?

2263
02:14:21,200 --> 02:14:21,920
It does.
It's just.

2264
02:14:22,520 --> 02:14:24,960
Yeah, No, it's.
Just something between you and

2265
02:14:24,960 --> 02:14:28,920
God, and that between you and
God can be literally anything.

2266
02:14:28,920 --> 02:14:30,920
There's no constraints.
Absolutely.

2267
02:14:31,160 --> 02:14:35,360
OK, so bottom line conclusion,
does their concept of priesthood

2268
02:14:35,880 --> 02:14:39,960
fit with the restoration as
given through Joseph Smith?

2269
02:14:41,720 --> 02:14:44,680
I don't think so.
I don't think I don't.

2270
02:14:44,680 --> 02:14:46,200
Mason.
Mason What do you think?

2271
02:14:46,200 --> 02:14:50,320
Mason Does it fit?
Mason Did you go to sleep?

2272
02:14:50,320 --> 02:14:51,360
You.
Fell.

2273
02:14:51,360 --> 02:14:52,840
Asleep.
You fell asleep.

2274
02:14:52,840 --> 02:14:57,880
Again, I've been quoting quoting
too much of the Nimmer I know I.

2275
02:14:58,600 --> 02:15:00,960
Know too much of the Nim and Hot
record will do that to a feller.

2276
02:15:04,400 --> 02:15:06,080
Wow.
Should we keep going?

2277
02:15:06,960 --> 02:15:08,880
Yeah, let's keep going.
Let's see go on.

2278
02:15:08,880 --> 02:15:11,160
There's some more topics here.
There's I mean, this is I'm just

2279
02:15:11,160 --> 02:15:13,720
scratching the surface with the
stuff I prepared here too.

2280
02:15:14,200 --> 02:15:16,680
We could go deeper in all of
these topics, and there's also a

2281
02:15:16,680 --> 02:15:20,400
lot more topics to cover that I
didn't even prepare enough for,

2282
02:15:20,400 --> 02:15:22,400
but.
Tell you what, we we can go

2283
02:15:22,400 --> 02:15:25,200
until we're tired and if we need
to do a Part 2, we can do that.

2284
02:15:26,240 --> 02:15:29,400
All right.
So I want to look at universal

2285
02:15:29,400 --> 02:15:30,960
salvation.
It's a short one.

2286
02:15:31,520 --> 02:15:40,400
OK.
So this is volume one second

2287
02:15:40,520 --> 02:15:43,840
Shemuel or Samuel Gleamonite,
Chapter 7.

2288
02:15:43,840 --> 02:15:49,040
So this is, this is essentially
Christ's teachings, the people

2289
02:15:49,040 --> 02:15:52,400
of Corryanton or the
Corryantonites, I don't know.

2290
02:15:52,400 --> 02:15:54,400
I can't really name the city.
It's something like that.

2291
02:15:56,400 --> 02:15:59,240
And he says you shall administer
my sacrament, the sacrament of

2292
02:15:59,240 --> 02:16:01,760
my Last Supper, as you have seen
administered unto me.

2293
02:16:01,760 --> 02:16:04,080
And when you administer the
sacrament, it shall be unto the

2294
02:16:04,080 --> 02:16:06,880
people as an emblem that they do
accept my commandments.

2295
02:16:07,280 --> 02:16:10,040
And if they do this often, and
of their own free will will,

2296
02:16:10,040 --> 02:16:12,280
they shall be admitted into the
covenant which I made with the

2297
02:16:12,280 --> 02:16:17,040
Father and the Holy Ghost.
All right, so far, so good.

2298
02:16:18,800 --> 02:16:22,800
Yeah, they shall have place in
the new and everlasting covenant

2299
02:16:22,800 --> 02:16:25,840
of heaven, but if they do not
accept My commandments and

2300
02:16:25,840 --> 02:16:28,440
strive to keep them, behold,
they shall have no part in this

2301
02:16:28,440 --> 02:16:33,799
covenant, but must return unto
the covenant they had before and

2302
02:16:33,799 --> 02:16:37,959
suffer eternal deaths.
Nevertheless, they shall be

2303
02:16:37,959 --> 02:16:41,680
saved in the end for God to save
all the works of His hands.

2304
02:16:42,160 --> 02:16:46,160
So I want to brush on their
temple cosmology a little bit

2305
02:16:46,160 --> 02:16:46,760
here.
OK.

2306
02:16:48,280 --> 02:16:52,440
So I debated the best way to
share this.

2307
02:16:52,440 --> 02:16:56,959
I'm just going to share it by
paraphrasing just because that

2308
02:16:56,959 --> 02:17:01,760
way I can avoid saying anything
that shouldn't be said.

2309
02:17:03,120 --> 02:17:05,120
That was copy and pasted so to
speak, you know?

2310
02:17:06,600 --> 02:17:13,760
But basically in the beginning
you have Elohim male and Elohim

2311
02:17:13,760 --> 02:17:20,639
female and they have become this
through this process of eternal

2312
02:17:20,639 --> 02:17:26,559
death and and and reincarnation
and over an eternity of

2313
02:17:26,559 --> 02:17:30,160
eternities of eternities, they
have attained to godhood.

2314
02:17:32,120 --> 02:17:36,719
So Buddhist style essentially
kind of idea.

2315
02:17:37,440 --> 02:17:40,959
OK so so they are believer in
multiple mortal probations then?

2316
02:17:42,000 --> 02:17:46,520
At that point, that's how,
that's how our Father and our

2317
02:17:46,520 --> 02:17:52,520
Heavenly Father, Heavenly Mother
became gods and they decided

2318
02:17:52,559 --> 02:17:54,959
they looked out and sees the
darkness of space and say, hey,

2319
02:17:54,959 --> 02:17:57,760
look, or actually Heavenly
Mother sees the emptiness of

2320
02:17:57,760 --> 02:17:59,799
space and says, hey, look,
there's an empty spot over

2321
02:17:59,799 --> 02:18:02,400
there.
Let's go there and do what was

2322
02:18:02,400 --> 02:18:07,040
done that created us.
And they're like, and, and so

2323
02:18:07,040 --> 02:18:08,719
Heavenly Father's like, all
right, sounds good.

2324
02:18:09,200 --> 02:18:12,959
So they go out there and
Heavenly Father uses his powers

2325
02:18:12,959 --> 02:18:17,719
to organize matter, and Heavenly
Mother uses her power to give

2326
02:18:17,719 --> 02:18:19,680
matter conscious awareness of
itself.

2327
02:18:21,200 --> 02:18:26,440
And a process of evolution
happens from mineral to plant to

2328
02:18:26,440 --> 02:18:35,719
animal to human on these worlds
over the course of eternities.

2329
02:18:36,799 --> 02:18:41,040
It's kind of natural biology,
evolution going on.

2330
02:18:42,240 --> 02:18:45,840
So I'm going to tell you why I
have a problem with that and

2331
02:18:45,840 --> 02:18:48,879
that that is this, it is hard
for me.

2332
02:18:48,879 --> 02:18:51,760
I used to try to jump on this
train a little bit before I

2333
02:18:51,760 --> 02:18:56,200
became a Mormon, right?
Trying to parse out, you know,

2334
02:18:56,360 --> 02:19:00,120
divine origins versus versus
evolution, right?

2335
02:19:01,000 --> 02:19:05,120
And the thing I find with
evolution is that it is too

2336
02:19:05,120 --> 02:19:11,200
brutal to be of God, right?
Evolution, if you follow it out,

2337
02:19:11,559 --> 02:19:17,000
it is absolutely brutal in its
in its functions.

2338
02:19:17,840 --> 02:19:20,639
It does not with the character
of God.

2339
02:19:21,000 --> 02:19:26,160
So if your cosmology, if your
endowment immediately goes into

2340
02:19:27,360 --> 02:19:30,240
it was done by a divine
evolution.

2341
02:19:30,520 --> 02:19:32,920
I have I, I I raise issue with
that.

2342
02:19:33,879 --> 02:19:37,799
I I don't think it's it's
compatible with the God that was

2343
02:19:37,799 --> 02:19:39,360
revealed through the
restoration.

2344
02:19:40,200 --> 02:19:41,639
Right.
Well, we're just getting started

2345
02:19:41,639 --> 02:19:42,400
here.
Oh boy.

2346
02:19:43,120 --> 02:19:45,600
OK, we're just getting started.
That isn't going to come up

2347
02:19:45,600 --> 02:19:47,000
though.
That is going to come up.

2348
02:19:48,880 --> 02:19:51,760
So it's a Buddha style.
My objection to it is, is who?

2349
02:19:51,920 --> 02:19:55,600
Who, what am I in all of that?
So you at some point I was just

2350
02:19:55,760 --> 02:19:59,440
some mineral molecules bound
together and then eventually,

2351
02:19:59,440 --> 02:20:03,280
you know, lightning struck or
something and it became living

2352
02:20:03,280 --> 02:20:05,720
cells.
And then and that's me now.

2353
02:20:05,720 --> 02:20:08,840
Now I'm cells and then it.
You know, single cell Organism

2354
02:20:08,840 --> 02:20:11,200
and now it's these aquatic
things and then.

2355
02:20:11,200 --> 02:20:14,840
On a or on a.
Plant at some point in my, you

2356
02:20:14,840 --> 02:20:18,760
know, ancestry.
I mean, I don't understand where

2357
02:20:18,760 --> 02:20:20,920
are where are God's children in
this creation?

2358
02:20:21,560 --> 02:20:24,320
Right.
If it started with space dust

2359
02:20:25,520 --> 02:20:33,280
organizing itself into into
life, where was I when it wasn't

2360
02:20:33,280 --> 02:20:34,640
life?
Yeah.

2361
02:20:36,440 --> 02:20:41,800
And yeah, that's that's the part
that really I don't understand.

2362
02:20:42,520 --> 02:20:47,040
So but anyway, so that's that's
their plan, that's the covenant.

2363
02:20:47,040 --> 02:20:49,600
True.
OK.

2364
02:20:50,120 --> 02:20:51,480
And.
So.

2365
02:20:51,640 --> 02:20:54,280
There's these different worlds
and there's a problem.

2366
02:20:54,280 --> 02:20:58,000
So Heavenly Father and Heavenly
Mother can't appear.

2367
02:20:58,480 --> 02:21:03,760
They cannot influence this
creation in any way without

2368
02:21:03,760 --> 02:21:08,680
destroying it because their
presence, being of a, of a godly

2369
02:21:08,680 --> 02:21:11,800
nature, their presence on, on,
on these, one of these lower

2370
02:21:11,800 --> 02:21:16,160
spheres will, will wreck it and
it'll actually wreck it so bad

2371
02:21:16,160 --> 02:21:17,360
they'll have to start over
again.

2372
02:21:19,200 --> 02:21:22,560
So they're not allowed to touch.
They can look, but they can't

2373
02:21:22,560 --> 02:21:26,040
touch.
And they get bored and they're

2374
02:21:26,040 --> 02:21:29,360
watching and they're just
looking at some different things

2375
02:21:29,360 --> 02:21:32,720
going on and and they see some
civilization about to go to war

2376
02:21:32,720 --> 02:21:37,160
with another civilization.
And they see this shadowy thing

2377
02:21:37,160 --> 02:21:39,720
moving around on their creation
that they didn't create.

2378
02:21:41,280 --> 02:21:44,080
And it goes and whispers into
the generals in the army.

2379
02:21:44,080 --> 02:21:46,080
And then then all of a sudden
the war doesn't happen after

2380
02:21:46,080 --> 02:21:48,120
all.
And they're really happy that

2381
02:21:48,120 --> 02:21:50,720
that didn't happen.
But they're like, what was that

2382
02:21:51,280 --> 02:21:54,840
preacher or thing that, you
know, was doing this, this, this

2383
02:21:54,840 --> 02:21:58,920
slippery thing going around?
And so they follow it and they

2384
02:21:58,920 --> 02:22:02,440
see it doing all this good.
And so finally they appear to it

2385
02:22:03,240 --> 02:22:06,080
and it introduces itself and
says, oh, hi, I'm, I'm the Holy

2386
02:22:06,080 --> 02:22:10,600
Ghost.
And the Holy Ghost, unlike

2387
02:22:10,920 --> 02:22:14,400
Heavenly Father, Heavenly Mother
are not organized of matter.

2388
02:22:15,160 --> 02:22:19,080
And but they are also God.
They're, they have attained the

2389
02:22:19,120 --> 02:22:21,600
same kind of divine stature.
They are.

2390
02:22:21,600 --> 02:22:23,880
They are a perfect being.
Right.

2391
02:22:25,160 --> 02:22:28,720
But they are short of a physical
form.

2392
02:22:29,360 --> 02:22:32,320
But because they're short of the
physical form, they can interact

2393
02:22:32,320 --> 02:22:37,960
with with with Heavenly Father
and mother's children, whereas

2394
02:22:37,960 --> 02:22:41,880
they can't.
And the Holy Ghost tells them,

2395
02:22:41,880 --> 02:22:44,080
what are you doing?
You're the cause of all this.

2396
02:22:44,080 --> 02:22:47,120
This is terrible.
Do you know how much suffering

2397
02:22:47,120 --> 02:22:49,560
is happening is that these
eternities of death and

2398
02:22:49,560 --> 02:22:53,760
destruction and in order to try
to to create a God.

2399
02:22:54,960 --> 02:22:57,880
And they're like, yeah, this is
how it's done.

2400
02:22:59,360 --> 02:23:02,080
And like, this is awful.
We weren't even in this area of

2401
02:23:02,080 --> 02:23:07,040
the universe.
And the evil of this creation

2402
02:23:07,080 --> 02:23:10,880
and this constant death and
reincarnation even reached us

2403
02:23:10,880 --> 02:23:13,240
and started bothering us.
And that's why we came out here,

2404
02:23:13,240 --> 02:23:15,720
to try to try to make things a
little bit better.

2405
02:23:17,240 --> 02:23:21,080
So the holy and OK, I'm I'm
trying to understand how I I

2406
02:23:21,080 --> 02:23:22,760
apologize.
I must be slower.

2407
02:23:22,760 --> 02:23:25,240
I must have missed something.
No, it's complicated.

2408
02:23:25,640 --> 02:23:30,560
So you have a Heavenly Father
and a Heavenly Mother who come,

2409
02:23:30,720 --> 02:23:36,800
come kind of make up Elohim,
right that.

2410
02:23:36,800 --> 02:23:39,640
Time.
And they've attend attained to

2411
02:23:39,640 --> 02:23:43,800
their godhood by a series of
death and and reincarnations,

2412
02:23:43,960 --> 02:23:47,520
right until they, like, got it
right enough that they could be

2413
02:23:47,520 --> 02:23:49,840
moved through Groundhog Day.
Yeah.

2414
02:23:50,480 --> 02:23:54,880
And then they create this world,
and this world has all this

2415
02:23:54,880 --> 02:23:58,520
decay on it, right?
All this that and all this.

2416
02:23:58,960 --> 02:24:04,080
And so the a group of holy
ghosts come along to talk with

2417
02:24:04,320 --> 02:24:06,440
the Elohim.
Is that what I'm understanding?

2418
02:24:07,040 --> 02:24:09,640
Yeah, pretty much.
So somehow.

2419
02:24:09,840 --> 02:24:12,800
The Holy Ghost are a different
like race or species or

2420
02:24:12,800 --> 02:24:16,680
something.
OK, so do they, do they somehow

2421
02:24:16,680 --> 02:24:20,800
have supremacy over Elohim?
Because it sounds like they're

2422
02:24:20,800 --> 02:24:22,720
kind of talking down to them,
right?

2423
02:24:23,320 --> 02:24:27,800
Oh yeah, there does appear to be
a moral supremacy, but power

2424
02:24:27,800 --> 02:24:29,360
supremacy?
They're weaker 'cause they don't

2425
02:24:29,360 --> 02:24:31,920
have physical bodies.
Interesting.

2426
02:24:33,200 --> 02:24:36,240
But they definitely present a
moral superiority.

2427
02:24:37,240 --> 02:24:38,880
But they do make friends with
Elohim.

2428
02:24:39,280 --> 02:24:42,080
And so they go and visit, and
they visit the Holy Ghost people

2429
02:24:42,120 --> 02:24:47,040
and make friends with them.
And they even at the Holy Ghost

2430
02:24:47,040 --> 02:24:51,480
people's request, I believe,
give them opportunities to have

2431
02:24:51,480 --> 02:24:53,680
a body.
So they, Adam will organize a

2432
02:24:53,680 --> 02:24:56,240
body for them so that they can
have bodies and experience that.

2433
02:24:56,240 --> 02:25:01,880
But it's temporary.
For some reason, I can't

2434
02:25:01,880 --> 02:25:02,920
remember.
There might have been a reason

2435
02:25:02,920 --> 02:25:05,040
to explain, I don't remember
what it is, but for some reason

2436
02:25:05,040 --> 02:25:06,480
they're not able to.
It's not permanent.

2437
02:25:07,440 --> 02:25:10,680
And also they kind of like, it's
not very good for us to do this

2438
02:25:10,680 --> 02:25:13,600
because some of us try out the
body and we really like it.

2439
02:25:13,640 --> 02:25:19,360
And since we can't have it for
eternity, it's better for us not

2440
02:25:19,360 --> 02:25:25,120
to partake of your powers.
And also we kind of don't like

2441
02:25:25,120 --> 02:25:26,920
you because your worlds are
awful.

2442
02:25:27,320 --> 02:25:28,640
The world's that you create are
awful.

2443
02:25:31,480 --> 02:25:33,760
But then Heavenly Mother says,
hey, I got an idea.

2444
02:25:34,360 --> 02:25:39,360
I've got an idea.
What if we worked together and

2445
02:25:39,360 --> 02:25:43,360
we come up with a new plan?
And what we'll do is we'll,

2446
02:25:43,480 --> 02:25:50,080
we'll use the Holy Ghost people
to, we'll create one more world.

2447
02:25:50,640 --> 02:25:53,240
We'll do this one more time.
We're going to gather everybody

2448
02:25:53,240 --> 02:25:55,200
together and we're going to use
the Holy Ghost.

2449
02:25:55,280 --> 02:26:00,400
And also one of our children who
happens to be Jesus has pretty

2450
02:26:00,400 --> 02:26:05,280
much evolved into a God.
Maybe he's like 11 reincarnation

2451
02:26:05,280 --> 02:26:07,000
away.
So he's really, really close.

2452
02:26:07,000 --> 02:26:08,800
So like we got somebody who's
really close.

2453
02:26:09,280 --> 02:26:11,360
We've got these Holy Ghost
people that can do things we

2454
02:26:11,360 --> 02:26:14,960
can't because they can actually
influence our children, whereas

2455
02:26:14,960 --> 02:26:19,240
we totally watch them from afar.
Maybe we can do this in a little

2456
02:26:19,240 --> 02:26:22,480
bit better way.
So they come up with a new plan.

2457
02:26:22,600 --> 02:26:25,640
So there's a council.
And it's funny because everybody

2458
02:26:25,640 --> 02:26:30,080
gets recalled in this council,
including all of us, and Jesus

2459
02:26:30,080 --> 02:26:31,960
and all the other creations get
recalled.

2460
02:26:32,360 --> 02:26:34,520
And I thought that that couldn't
happen without making them

2461
02:26:34,520 --> 02:26:38,840
restart, start over.
But apparently it doesn't

2462
02:26:38,840 --> 02:26:42,080
restart them over.
And the plan is the Holy Ghost

2463
02:26:42,080 --> 02:26:46,600
has this special power to copy
and paste kind of your spirit

2464
02:26:46,600 --> 02:26:50,240
onto itself.
And their plan is, we'll do this

2465
02:26:50,240 --> 02:26:53,320
one more time and we'll send
Jesus, and it'll be Jesus's last

2466
02:26:53,320 --> 02:26:58,320
time evolving.
And since it's his last time, if

2467
02:26:58,320 --> 02:27:02,640
the Holy Ghost copies his
experiences onto himself, it can

2468
02:27:02,640 --> 02:27:05,120
copy Christ's perfection onto
itself.

2469
02:27:06,520 --> 02:27:10,400
And then the Holy Ghost can use
that copy to then paste Christ's

2470
02:27:10,400 --> 02:27:12,560
perfection into the rest of the
children.

2471
02:27:14,080 --> 02:27:17,360
Oh, so the Holy Ghost is a, is a
copy and copy and paste function

2472
02:27:17,400 --> 02:27:19,120
basically.
And it, you know, hovers over

2473
02:27:19,160 --> 02:27:24,080
Jesus, hits cop control C and
then they can come to us, cover

2474
02:27:24,080 --> 02:27:29,480
upon us and control V.
So a new plan is made.

2475
02:27:30,360 --> 02:27:33,040
However.
One of these other guys is also

2476
02:27:33,040 --> 02:27:38,280
really close to being done.
And that's that's, that's Satan,

2477
02:27:38,280 --> 02:27:39,560
right?
That's Lucifer.

2478
02:27:39,720 --> 02:27:41,680
And Lucifer is like, no, I don't
like this plan.

2479
02:27:41,800 --> 02:27:46,360
I was, I was pretty much
finished and I don't know, I

2480
02:27:46,360 --> 02:27:48,360
don't know why that would cause
him not to like it, but he

2481
02:27:48,360 --> 02:27:49,840
doesn't like it.
He rebels.

2482
02:27:50,200 --> 02:27:52,240
At that point, things kind of
kind of get more online.

2483
02:27:52,240 --> 02:27:54,280
Oh, but one other thing, and
this is the animism.

2484
02:27:55,440 --> 02:27:59,280
Some of the Holy Ghost people
decide they also want to become

2485
02:27:59,280 --> 02:28:06,040
like Elohim.
And so in this last creation,

2486
02:28:06,360 --> 02:28:09,440
they're going to be given bodies
to the Holy Ghost.

2487
02:28:09,440 --> 02:28:13,760
People that want to, however,
they're not giving.

2488
02:28:13,760 --> 02:28:17,280
They're not given human bodies.
They're given rock bodies and

2489
02:28:17,280 --> 02:28:20,960
tree bodies and animal bodies.
Whoa.

2490
02:28:22,640 --> 02:28:25,960
So there's kind of an animism
with this as well as basically

2491
02:28:25,960 --> 02:28:29,520
everything is alive.
Everything has a spirit and

2492
02:28:30,920 --> 02:28:33,960
basically a divine spirit too,
because these are the Holy Ghost

2493
02:28:33,960 --> 02:28:38,320
people are these self, this,
these I am gods.

2494
02:28:39,600 --> 02:28:41,400
They just don't have bodies.
So they're just here for the

2495
02:28:41,400 --> 02:28:43,280
body.
And afterwards they'll get to be

2496
02:28:43,320 --> 02:28:46,920
I guess people too.
But for now, they're just here

2497
02:28:46,920 --> 02:28:49,600
for a body of some sort and of
any sort.

2498
02:28:50,320 --> 02:28:54,440
And so remember that next time
you're, you know, you're eating,

2499
02:28:54,480 --> 02:28:57,600
eating a steak that you know you
had to kill a Holy Ghost

2500
02:28:57,600 --> 02:28:59,600
person's cow body to get that
steak.

2501
02:29:01,000 --> 02:29:02,360
Oh yeah, this is going to lead.
You.

2502
02:29:02,400 --> 02:29:03,280
I'm sorry.
I'm.

2503
02:29:03,400 --> 02:29:04,880
Getting I'm getting sarcastic I
should.

2504
02:29:05,120 --> 02:29:08,800
Oh no, that's, that's look,
dude, there's a number of things

2505
02:29:08,800 --> 02:29:12,240
that you just described that's
really problematic, right?

2506
02:29:12,520 --> 02:29:17,640
One is they say that the the,
that that Elohim can't interact

2507
02:29:17,640 --> 02:29:22,280
with this world 'cause he'll
destroy it, right, right.

2508
02:29:22,640 --> 02:29:26,760
But yet we have a resurrected
Christ who would be on that same

2509
02:29:26,760 --> 02:29:31,480
level now, showing up in on the
earth after his resurrection.

2510
02:29:33,000 --> 02:29:35,360
Nothing happened.
Hypothetically, he's not there

2511
02:29:35,360 --> 02:29:38,240
until the atonement.
OK, all right.

2512
02:29:38,760 --> 02:29:41,240
But but what?
What I'm saying is, after the

2513
02:29:41,240 --> 02:29:44,480
atonement though, after his
resurrection, he's essentially

2514
02:29:44,840 --> 02:29:46,840
at the same level as an Elohim,
right?

2515
02:29:47,400 --> 02:29:51,400
According to their cosmology.
So he comes back resurrected and

2516
02:29:51,400 --> 02:29:53,760
the earth doesn't waste away,
right?

2517
02:29:54,120 --> 02:30:01,640
Again, internal inconsistency.
Also, they have taken some of

2518
02:30:01,640 --> 02:30:06,200
the most beautiful teachings
about deity of the restored

2519
02:30:06,200 --> 02:30:10,400
gospel, which gives us proximity
to deity, and they've removed

2520
02:30:10,400 --> 02:30:13,960
them again, right?
We're no longer children of God.

2521
02:30:14,000 --> 02:30:19,680
We are the evolved spawn that
God twisted a key to get

2522
02:30:19,680 --> 02:30:23,440
started.
Yep, Yep, it's problematic on so

2523
02:30:23,440 --> 02:30:25,680
many levels.
OK.

2524
02:30:26,040 --> 02:30:29,160
And this is their endowment?
This is the beginning of their

2525
02:30:29,160 --> 02:30:30,040
endowment.
Yep.

2526
02:30:30,960 --> 02:30:34,960
And then it falls in too.
So it turns out that Satan

2527
02:30:35,720 --> 02:30:39,480
rebels, and it turns out by not
by rebelling, he doesn't.

2528
02:30:39,480 --> 02:30:42,680
They get cast down and it turns
out that they have the same

2529
02:30:42,680 --> 02:30:48,040
power as the Holy Ghost people
now to be able to enter into a

2530
02:30:48,040 --> 02:30:52,080
physical being and influence it.
Which is kind of weird because

2531
02:30:52,080 --> 02:30:55,720
you would have thought that they
would have Elohim would have

2532
02:30:55,720 --> 02:30:58,240
noticed that at some point in
the cycle of reincarnations,

2533
02:30:58,240 --> 02:31:01,520
that in between reincarnations,
when people don't have bodies

2534
02:31:01,520 --> 02:31:05,800
that they can haunt, so to
speak, it's.

2535
02:31:06,520 --> 02:31:09,040
Going to say possess.
Possessed, yeah.

2536
02:31:09,640 --> 02:31:14,640
Wow.
But yeah, but anyways.

2537
02:31:14,640 --> 02:31:16,760
And so then it goes and then
Adam and Eve.

2538
02:31:16,760 --> 02:31:20,680
So this is not Adam, God.
Right.

2539
02:31:23,400 --> 02:31:29,560
Jehovah in in their endowment is
this Jesus Elohim is heavenly

2540
02:31:29,560 --> 02:31:34,480
Father and heavenly Mother and
Adam and Eve are just two other

2541
02:31:34,560 --> 02:31:39,200
two other just dudes or a dude
and do that that just happened

2542
02:31:39,200 --> 02:31:42,120
to get picked to come first.
They just drew the winning Wonka

2543
02:31:42,120 --> 02:31:45,040
ticket and they got.
Together, yeah.

2544
02:31:45,320 --> 02:31:46,320
Interesting.
OK.

2545
02:31:47,560 --> 02:31:50,840
And, and from there, it's the
garden and it kind of goes

2546
02:31:50,840 --> 02:31:53,680
through the rest.
Well, there's a lot of

2547
02:31:53,680 --> 02:31:55,320
difference still a lot of
difference.

2548
02:31:55,320 --> 02:31:57,720
If somebody really wants to
research it, I'd recommend It's

2549
02:31:57,720 --> 02:32:00,240
in volume to.
You can read it for yourself if

2550
02:32:00,240 --> 02:32:01,960
you like if you're that
interested.

2551
02:32:02,320 --> 02:32:04,280
It's.
Bizarre.

2552
02:32:04,680 --> 02:32:07,080
It's really bizarre.
It's almost surreal reading it

2553
02:32:07,080 --> 02:32:09,800
because it literally like you
got sections that are clearly

2554
02:32:09,800 --> 02:32:13,480
like exact word for word copy
paste from from the LDS

2555
02:32:13,480 --> 02:32:15,960
endowment.
And then you got other things

2556
02:32:15,960 --> 02:32:21,720
where it just completely turns
it on its head and ends up kind

2557
02:32:21,720 --> 02:32:25,040
of putting forth an entirely
different theology and concept

2558
02:32:25,040 --> 02:32:28,000
in relation to stuff like Eve
choosing to eat the fruit.

2559
02:32:28,880 --> 02:32:32,400
Oh man, what Eve does to Adam
after she partakes of the fruit

2560
02:32:32,400 --> 02:32:34,560
is wild.
What'd she do?

2561
02:32:36,120 --> 02:32:38,160
In my maybe I'll read this
section.

2562
02:32:38,160 --> 02:32:41,520
This is let me say I can find
it.

2563
02:32:41,520 --> 02:32:47,880
This is good.
This is good how Eve gets Adam

2564
02:32:47,880 --> 02:32:51,640
to partake.
Sorry, I should have planned for

2565
02:32:51,640 --> 02:32:53,200
this ahead of time, but.
No, you're good.

2566
02:32:53,200 --> 02:32:54,760
You're I.
Feel like, I feel like it'd be,

2567
02:32:54,840 --> 02:32:56,680
it'd be, it'd be good to go
over.

2568
02:32:58,040 --> 02:33:02,080
Yeah, absolutely.
Mason, what are you thinking of

2569
02:33:02,080 --> 02:33:03,960
all this while?
Justin's looking that up,

2570
02:33:04,560 --> 02:33:11,280
honestly.
I think I think what the record

2571
02:33:11,280 --> 02:33:15,400
is trying to teach is very
difficult to follow.

2572
02:33:15,560 --> 02:33:20,240
What is consistently been
popping in my head is in the

2573
02:33:20,240 --> 02:33:24,160
Book of Mormon where several
prophets talk about delighting

2574
02:33:24,160 --> 02:33:29,400
in simplicity.
You know, some people say the

2575
02:33:29,400 --> 02:33:34,280
Adam God doctrine is confusing.
I think that when you follow its

2576
02:33:34,280 --> 02:33:37,720
conclusion, it's, it's really
just the idea that God is our

2577
02:33:37,720 --> 02:33:44,560
ancestor and that there is one
ancestor of ours that stands at

2578
02:33:44,560 --> 02:33:48,760
our head.
And that that being at one time

2579
02:33:48,760 --> 02:33:56,120
lived a life like ours and
attained that place by by the

2580
02:33:56,120 --> 02:33:59,800
merit of a a savior of another
world and, and through his

2581
02:33:59,800 --> 02:34:03,720
obedience to that individual and
the laws of the universe.

2582
02:34:04,400 --> 02:34:12,360
This is just all over the place.
It's, it's like listening to

2583
02:34:13,880 --> 02:34:21,360
those Gnostic, the scriptures
that that kind of got put out of

2584
02:34:21,360 --> 02:34:26,560
place.
I'm in the the early history of

2585
02:34:26,560 --> 02:34:29,240
Christianity.
It's it's very convoluted.

2586
02:34:30,440 --> 02:34:32,440
Absolutely.
All right.

2587
02:34:32,560 --> 02:34:33,520
Did you find it?
Justin.

2588
02:34:34,280 --> 02:34:36,800
Yeah.
And this is the I obviously

2589
02:34:36,800 --> 02:34:39,800
they're not offended about this
being shared publicly because

2590
02:34:39,800 --> 02:34:44,040
that's part of their theology.
And this is absolutely nothing

2591
02:34:44,400 --> 02:34:47,520
to do with LDS endowment.
So I don't think anybody on that

2592
02:34:47,520 --> 02:34:51,600
side would be offended.
So we have Eve and she says,

2593
02:34:52,120 --> 02:34:53,440
well, they're having this
debate.

2594
02:34:54,680 --> 02:34:57,120
Eve, you know, presents the
fruit to Adam.

2595
02:34:57,120 --> 02:35:00,360
Adam's like, I cannot eat it,
it'll kill me.

2596
02:35:01,040 --> 02:35:02,920
And he says, look at me, I have
eaten of the fruit.

2597
02:35:02,920 --> 02:35:06,960
I know good from the evil.
I may now choose good and reject

2598
02:35:06,960 --> 02:35:08,880
evil.
Can you make that claim, Adam?

2599
02:35:12,520 --> 02:35:17,240
Adam says, is this so important?
Eve says I don't know, perhaps

2600
02:35:17,240 --> 02:35:19,680
you can tell me.
Do you love the Creator?

2601
02:35:21,840 --> 02:35:24,840
And Adam says why?
Why yes, I do love him.

2602
02:35:25,080 --> 02:35:28,920
And he says why?
How do you know that he is not

2603
02:35:28,920 --> 02:35:39,480
telling you to do a bad thing?
I think maybe they miscast the

2604
02:35:39,480 --> 02:35:42,320
serpent as Eve.
Yeah, no, it sure looks like it,

2605
02:35:42,320 --> 02:35:43,760
doesn't it?
Right.

2606
02:35:44,560 --> 02:35:47,120
How?
Do you know that he's not

2607
02:35:47,120 --> 02:35:49,400
telling you to do something bad?
And Adam says, well, I trust

2608
02:35:49,400 --> 02:35:50,960
him.
I follow his commandments.

2609
02:35:51,640 --> 02:35:56,680
And he says, but declare to me
what you know about him.

2610
02:35:57,160 --> 02:35:59,280
I can tell you of a surety that
he is good.

2611
02:35:59,480 --> 02:36:01,800
I can tell you that what he
commands you to do is good, and

2612
02:36:01,800 --> 02:36:04,240
that if you follow him, no bad
thing will come of all of your

2613
02:36:04,240 --> 02:36:06,280
works.
And you declare these things,

2614
02:36:06,280 --> 02:36:08,480
Adam.
Adam says I cannot.

2615
02:36:09,040 --> 02:36:11,920
I know there is good and evil,
for I know the Creator so named

2616
02:36:11,920 --> 02:36:14,600
a certain tree, but I don't know
what the name means.

2617
02:36:14,680 --> 02:36:16,040
He commanded me not to eat of
it.

2618
02:36:16,040 --> 02:36:20,360
And since you say you know that
he will not command me wrongly,

2619
02:36:20,360 --> 02:36:24,800
I'll I'll trust you also.
And I will not eat good on Adam,

2620
02:36:25,440 --> 02:36:28,720
good on Adam.
But Eve is not finished.

2621
02:36:30,640 --> 02:36:40,520
Then you and I must part Adam,
for I now I think we know why

2622
02:36:41,800 --> 02:36:44,280
Eve and Adam can't stay
together, right?

2623
02:36:45,000 --> 02:36:46,920
Right.
That's not, that's not.

2624
02:36:46,920 --> 02:36:50,000
Nobody's going to consider that
an endowment mystery, right?

2625
02:36:50,000 --> 02:36:50,840
No.
Because.

2626
02:36:51,960 --> 02:36:54,360
That's I think it's, isn't it?
Not in Moses as well.

2627
02:36:54,440 --> 02:36:57,960
I think that is in Moses where
where it talks about Adam would

2628
02:36:57,960 --> 02:36:59,800
be left alone man in the Garden
of Eden.

2629
02:37:00,760 --> 02:37:04,360
Right.
And that's the reason why Adam

2630
02:37:04,360 --> 02:37:07,920
decides according to LDS
doctrine.

2631
02:37:08,560 --> 02:37:12,040
Right.
So here though, she says, then

2632
02:37:12,040 --> 02:37:15,520
you and I must part Adam, for I
cannot stay with a man who does

2633
02:37:15,520 --> 02:37:20,760
not know the Creator within him.
See, that's a completely

2634
02:37:20,760 --> 02:37:25,480
different light than what's
revealed in Moses as well as as

2635
02:37:25,520 --> 02:37:28,000
the the historic endowment,
right?

2636
02:37:29,160 --> 02:37:32,360
She's not saying I can't be with
you, she's saying I won't be

2637
02:37:32,360 --> 02:37:34,920
with you.
Yes, and the other thing is is

2638
02:37:34,920 --> 02:37:40,960
that here it almost looks like
Eve is using trickery right and

2639
02:37:41,480 --> 02:37:45,400
and in in the the account in the
Pearl a great price.

2640
02:37:45,760 --> 02:37:49,960
She's just stating fact right.
Look, this is what it's going to

2641
02:37:49,960 --> 02:37:53,760
be if if, if we don't do this
together, so to speak.

2642
02:37:54,560 --> 02:38:00,240
And Adam, they reason together
is kind of the, the, the, the,

2643
02:38:00,400 --> 02:38:02,760
the, the just of the whole
thing, right?

2644
02:38:03,040 --> 02:38:05,160
And here that's not the case
here.

2645
02:38:05,160 --> 02:38:09,160
Eve is made out to be more of a
trickster than that.

2646
02:38:10,160 --> 02:38:12,920
And I find that highly
problematic as as well.

2647
02:38:12,920 --> 02:38:16,760
It does not cast Eve in a great
light and one of the.

2648
02:38:16,760 --> 02:38:20,640
Things it sounds.
It sounds to me like how a a new

2649
02:38:20,640 --> 02:38:23,920
age yoga instructor girlfriend
breaks up with her boyfriend.

2650
02:38:24,160 --> 02:38:29,400
Yeah, Yep, I like.
It but I cannot stay with a man

2651
02:38:29,400 --> 02:38:31,000
who does not know the Creator
within him.

2652
02:38:31,240 --> 02:38:34,280
Yeah.
Oh, OK.

2653
02:38:34,520 --> 02:38:35,360
Now we're off.
To.

2654
02:38:35,920 --> 02:38:38,880
You raps and you know.
Yeah.

2655
02:38:38,880 --> 02:38:41,120
So so.
Adam's like, well, what do you

2656
02:38:41,120 --> 02:38:44,760
mean?
And he says, well, the Creator

2657
02:38:44,760 --> 02:38:48,160
could command us to do this and
that, but we would not become

2658
02:38:48,160 --> 02:38:49,800
like Him merely by his
commanding.

2659
02:38:49,800 --> 02:38:53,440
It only annoying why a thing is
good or why a thing is not bad.

2660
02:38:53,440 --> 02:38:56,680
May we be like Him.
This is wisdom and I would have

2661
02:38:56,680 --> 02:39:02,520
a wise husband.
I would have a What a wise.

2662
02:39:02,520 --> 02:39:04,360
Husband.
Oh jeez.

2663
02:39:07,680 --> 02:39:09,800
I'm smarter than you and I'm
right on this.

2664
02:39:09,800 --> 02:39:13,520
And if you want to be with me, I
want, I want a wise husband, I

2665
02:39:13,520 --> 02:39:15,880
mean.
Man.

2666
02:39:17,400 --> 02:39:19,200
Nano man, right?
Yeah.

2667
02:39:20,560 --> 02:39:25,040
I'm, I'm, if I'm Adam, I'm
thinking, all right, I'll wait

2668
02:39:25,040 --> 02:39:27,920
around for the next.
One right, right, right.

2669
02:39:30,520 --> 02:39:34,400
Man, he just look, one of the
beautiful things about the

2670
02:39:34,400 --> 02:39:39,000
restoration was is that it put
woman back into a a beautiful

2671
02:39:39,000 --> 02:39:42,400
context again, right?
Most of Christendom had made Eve

2672
02:39:42,400 --> 02:39:45,520
out to be the problem with all
of the world or the source of

2673
02:39:45,520 --> 02:39:48,880
all the world's problems.
Joseph came along and said, no,

2674
02:39:48,880 --> 02:39:52,520
that's not the case here.
It's almost like they are once

2675
02:39:52,520 --> 02:39:56,120
again kind of recasting Eve in a
very negative light.

2676
02:39:57,680 --> 02:40:01,040
Well, I would see it that way.
But a modern audience

2677
02:40:01,240 --> 02:40:04,280
understands this dynamic, right?
This is what happens on the

2678
02:40:04,280 --> 02:40:06,320
sitcom you watch on TV every
day, right?

2679
02:40:06,320 --> 02:40:08,520
Where the woman's always right
and the man's always kind of

2680
02:40:08,520 --> 02:40:11,240
stupid and bumbling around and
doesn't get her, you know?

2681
02:40:11,320 --> 02:40:13,760
No, no.
People will resonate to this,

2682
02:40:13,760 --> 02:40:15,040
trust me.
Yeah.

2683
02:40:17,000 --> 02:40:19,600
It's not necessarily a bad
thing, being walk ain't bad,

2684
02:40:19,600 --> 02:40:23,520
right?
It's just a perspective.

2685
02:40:24,000 --> 02:40:26,960
So.
Let's continue had events is

2686
02:40:26,960 --> 02:40:31,840
like, OK, says where will you
go?

2687
02:40:33,160 --> 02:40:37,720
And he says, well, I must die.
Someday some natural or

2688
02:40:37,720 --> 02:40:39,320
supernatural thing will overtake
me.

2689
02:40:39,520 --> 02:40:42,920
And because I have taken into me
the seeds of death, those seeds

2690
02:40:42,920 --> 02:40:46,400
will grow in my body and my body
will break down and disappear.

2691
02:40:46,720 --> 02:40:49,360
When that happens, you will be
all alone, for there'll be no

2692
02:40:49,360 --> 02:40:54,240
children between you and me.
That was a, that was not a

2693
02:40:54,240 --> 02:40:58,840
statement of, of of a fact
necessarily, right.

2694
02:40:58,840 --> 02:41:01,520
That was not a eternal law being
explained there.

2695
02:41:01,880 --> 02:41:04,800
No, that was her saying there
will not be children between you

2696
02:41:04,800 --> 02:41:06,000
and me.
Right.

2697
02:41:06,040 --> 02:41:08,920
Yeah, right.
And it's because it's clear,

2698
02:41:08,920 --> 02:41:11,760
because Adam then is like, well,
why is that?

2699
02:41:13,880 --> 02:41:17,040
And she explains, because you
would have to raise them and

2700
02:41:17,040 --> 02:41:20,240
nurture them.
I would have to know that they

2701
02:41:20,240 --> 02:41:22,920
would too be raised in
righteousness and in truth.

2702
02:41:23,360 --> 02:41:26,040
Can you do that, Adam?
Wow.

2703
02:41:27,600 --> 02:41:31,720
And Adam says I do not know.
And he says that is right, Adam,

2704
02:41:31,800 --> 02:41:35,040
you don't know.
I will not leave my children to

2705
02:41:35,040 --> 02:41:39,400
be raised in such a manner.
Holy cow.

2706
02:41:39,920 --> 02:41:43,200
And Adam says, but how can we be
together this way?

2707
02:41:43,320 --> 02:41:46,600
And he says we cannot.
I must go to another place where

2708
02:41:46,600 --> 02:41:49,240
I have grown to love you and I
do not wish to see you unhappy.

2709
02:41:49,640 --> 02:41:51,920
But I know for.
That I know the good and the

2710
02:41:51,920 --> 02:41:53,400
evil.
Adam, you do not.

2711
02:41:53,720 --> 02:41:58,520
This must always separate us.
So.

2712
02:41:59,520 --> 02:42:03,160
Anyways, Adam folds.
Right, of course.

2713
02:42:03,320 --> 02:42:08,560
But but anyway, just an
illustration of some of it's

2714
02:42:08,560 --> 02:42:12,480
kind of close, some of it's copy
and paste and some of it is just

2715
02:42:14,000 --> 02:42:20,320
out there, out there.
It's something, it's something.

2716
02:42:20,840 --> 02:42:24,880
But in this something?
The.

2717
02:42:24,880 --> 02:42:28,800
New and Everlasting covenant is
this new covenant between the

2718
02:42:28,800 --> 02:42:31,680
Elohim, the Holy Ghost and
Jesus, right?

2719
02:42:33,080 --> 02:42:36,640
The original everlasting
covenant was eternal.

2720
02:42:36,680 --> 02:42:40,120
It was Buddhism.
Interesting.

2721
02:42:40,640 --> 02:42:45,160
And so what's been explained
here, what Jesus is explaining

2722
02:42:45,160 --> 02:42:52,160
to the people that the people of
Coriantin, is that if you don't

2723
02:42:52,160 --> 02:42:55,120
accept Jesus and have the Holy
Ghost copy and paste all that

2724
02:42:55,120 --> 02:42:58,760
experience on to you, all that
growth and development, that's

2725
02:42:58,760 --> 02:43:02,600
still OK because there's still
the backup plan.

2726
02:43:05,040 --> 02:43:08,160
The backup plan, OK.
And through the backup plan,

2727
02:43:08,280 --> 02:43:13,440
everybody will be saved.
And that's how they get to the

2728
02:43:13,440 --> 02:43:17,400
universal salvation thing.
That's why I said it's universal

2729
02:43:17,400 --> 02:43:20,280
salvation, yeah.
Interesting.

2730
02:43:20,360 --> 02:43:23,280
It's the universal salvation and
there's some there's some

2731
02:43:23,280 --> 02:43:23,920
issues.
With it.

2732
02:43:23,920 --> 02:43:29,640
Obviously, but there's more,
there's more about it and but I

2733
02:43:29,640 --> 02:43:31,760
think probably we should move on
to another topic here soon.

2734
02:43:31,880 --> 02:43:34,440
Yeah.
No, look, in conclusion of this

2735
02:43:34,440 --> 02:43:38,400
one, I'll say this.
Mormons, for the most part, it's

2736
02:43:38,400 --> 02:43:42,040
not entirely universal, but for
the most part, there's a form of

2737
02:43:42,040 --> 02:43:44,960
universal salvation here, right
within the restaurant, right,

2738
02:43:45,680 --> 02:43:47,640
right.
The thing is, though, is that

2739
02:43:48,280 --> 02:43:52,120
as, as does most counterfeits,
it'll take it and twist it,

2740
02:43:52,440 --> 02:43:55,600
right?
The other thing I'll say is if

2741
02:43:55,600 --> 02:43:59,680
that's their endowment there,
you know, I go back to Joseph

2742
02:43:59,680 --> 02:44:02,600
Smith where there's no change in
ordinance, there's no change in

2743
02:44:02,600 --> 02:44:06,160
priesthood, right?
And the ordinances given from

2744
02:44:06,160 --> 02:44:09,840
Adam to man must be unaltered
and unchanged.

2745
02:44:10,480 --> 02:44:15,240
And so he's feeling whoever
wrote this is feeling confident

2746
02:44:15,240 --> 02:44:21,000
enough that they feel like
Joseph got something wrong, I

2747
02:44:21,000 --> 02:44:23,360
guess.
Right, Right.

2748
02:44:24,760 --> 02:44:26,400
Yeah.
And I guess I actually I labeled

2749
02:44:26,400 --> 02:44:28,280
this wrong.
This is not universal salvation.

2750
02:44:28,280 --> 02:44:32,480
This is universal exaltation.
OK, all right, all right, there

2751
02:44:32,480 --> 02:44:33,680
we go.
Through this process, you're

2752
02:44:33,680 --> 02:44:35,480
going to become a God.
OK.

2753
02:44:35,720 --> 02:44:37,560
All right.
Eventually, or you're going to

2754
02:44:37,560 --> 02:44:40,160
spend eternity upon eternities,
living and dying and living

2755
02:44:40,160 --> 02:44:43,400
until you get there.
Until you get there rather than

2756
02:44:43,400 --> 02:44:45,960
a than a.
See, here's the thing I find

2757
02:44:45,960 --> 02:44:52,120
Mormonism of the most merciful
perspective of hell, which it

2758
02:44:52,120 --> 02:44:58,760
ultimately is, is that hell is
basically healing from the

2759
02:44:58,760 --> 02:45:02,240
consequences of your sins.
And you can either do that

2760
02:45:02,240 --> 02:45:07,200
yourself, pay for that yourself,
or you can accept Christ.

2761
02:45:07,640 --> 02:45:10,680
But ultimately though you
inherit a you, you inherit a

2762
02:45:10,680 --> 02:45:14,120
Kingdom of glory.
They're different Kingdom of

2763
02:45:14,120 --> 02:45:17,440
glory, but there is a Kingdom of
glory that is suitable and is

2764
02:45:17,440 --> 02:45:20,680
heaven for everybody.
Everybody does win.

2765
02:45:20,680 --> 02:45:23,160
We don't all end up as gods, but
everybody wins.

2766
02:45:23,440 --> 02:45:27,640
Right, right.
We all end up better than we

2767
02:45:27,640 --> 02:45:30,240
would have been if this whole
plan of salvation never

2768
02:45:30,240 --> 02:45:32,000
happened.
Absolutely.

2769
02:45:33,240 --> 02:45:35,720
Well, mostly the the the sons of
Perdition, right?

2770
02:45:35,720 --> 02:45:38,040
Maybe that's a separate thing,
but right.

2771
02:45:38,560 --> 02:45:41,680
But overall, we believe in a
universal salvation.

2772
02:45:42,240 --> 02:45:44,760
Right.
Just not Mormonism, not

2773
02:45:44,760 --> 02:45:47,960
universal exaltation.
But this is a universal

2774
02:45:47,960 --> 02:45:50,560
exaltation.
OK, I got you 10 four that

2775
02:45:50,560 --> 02:45:52,160
checks.
Because one way or another,

2776
02:45:52,160 --> 02:45:55,440
you're going to keep living and
keep dying until you turn into a

2777
02:45:55,440 --> 02:46:02,680
God.
So much for personal, so much so

2778
02:46:02,680 --> 02:46:04,240
much for your own desires,
right?

2779
02:46:04,240 --> 02:46:07,320
People forget that, that there,
there will be folks who just

2780
02:46:07,320 --> 02:46:09,320
don't want that level of
responsibility.

2781
02:46:09,880 --> 02:46:11,840
And here it's almost forcing you
into it.

2782
02:46:12,280 --> 02:46:16,720
And I would say if that's their
plan, right, if that's the plan

2783
02:46:16,720 --> 02:46:20,840
that's laid out, did Lucifer win
in his argument with the Father?

2784
02:46:21,360 --> 02:46:23,480
Because this sure seems like
you're going to be forced into

2785
02:46:23,480 --> 02:46:25,440
that.
Right.

2786
02:46:26,160 --> 02:46:28,680
It it, it really is.
You are going to be forced into

2787
02:46:28,720 --> 02:46:34,080
it.
OK, well, I, I, I think we can

2788
02:46:34,080 --> 02:46:38,080
safely check off the their
temple endowment is not fitting

2789
02:46:38,080 --> 02:46:40,680
with the restoration.
Right, right.

2790
02:46:41,640 --> 02:46:45,400
So since you brought up Joseph
Smith, let's see what I I want

2791
02:46:45,400 --> 02:46:48,800
to go over The Nemenhauer record
references or appears to

2792
02:46:48,800 --> 02:46:52,280
reference him a few times here.
OK, so I thought this might be

2793
02:46:52,280 --> 02:46:53,640
worth looking at.
Yep.

2794
02:46:56,480 --> 02:47:00,480
So this is from volume 3, The
Book of Manti Manti.

2795
02:47:01,920 --> 02:47:07,680
I forget who this is and what it
is, so let's just take a look.

2796
02:47:12,920 --> 02:47:22,240
Oh, I do remember what this is.
This is, I think I know this.

2797
02:47:22,240 --> 02:47:26,560
I believe this is one of the
three Nephites coming to preach

2798
02:47:26,560 --> 02:47:30,920
to the Nemenha people after
Christ's visit at some point.

2799
02:47:31,480 --> 02:47:37,160
OK.
And this is in relation to the

2800
02:47:37,160 --> 02:47:42,560
law of chastity.
And we'll we'll get there later.

2801
02:47:42,560 --> 02:47:44,200
We'll get there.
We'll definitely get into the

2802
02:47:44,280 --> 02:47:46,360
end of their perspectives on
plural marriage here.

2803
02:47:46,360 --> 02:47:49,040
But basically, Timothy, he just
says plural marriage is wrong,

2804
02:47:50,880 --> 02:47:56,840
OK.
And, and now He's giving some

2805
02:47:56,840 --> 02:48:00,200
justification in that context.
OK.

2806
02:48:00,200 --> 02:48:04,400
For as I have said, the Lord may
make from time to time a special

2807
02:48:04,400 --> 02:48:08,680
dispensation of this law for His
own purposes of taking multiple

2808
02:48:08,680 --> 02:48:13,160
lives.
Some may make of this special

2809
02:48:13,160 --> 02:48:16,320
dispensation a general law,
feeling justified in it because

2810
02:48:16,320 --> 02:48:18,280
of the Lord's words and
commandments unto others.

2811
02:48:18,280 --> 02:48:20,640
But I say unto you, this
mistaken understanding shall

2812
02:48:20,640 --> 02:48:25,200
come in those days only because
of the custom which shall have

2813
02:48:25,200 --> 02:48:28,480
also waxed among the children of
men to deny revelation.

2814
02:48:31,600 --> 02:48:34,520
For if it were not so, the Holy
Ghost would most assuredly

2815
02:48:34,520 --> 02:48:36,640
assist them in understanding the
merits of the general

2816
02:48:36,640 --> 02:48:39,480
commandments of God, and that He
must take care of how to apply

2817
02:48:39,480 --> 02:48:43,360
those things whereby He does
move individuals to fulfill His

2818
02:48:43,360 --> 02:48:46,840
great purposes.
And behold, even the prophets

2819
02:48:46,840 --> 02:48:50,600
may make this mistake, if they
are not careful in submitting

2820
02:48:50,600 --> 02:48:53,120
all things to the confirmation
of the Holy Ghost.

2821
02:48:54,040 --> 02:48:57,000
For many there are, and many
there shall be, who shall

2822
02:48:57,000 --> 02:48:59,320
receive part of the word and
will of the Lord, and believe

2823
02:48:59,320 --> 02:49:01,720
that what they have received
constitutes the entirety.

2824
02:49:02,360 --> 02:49:04,920
Even I who have received of the
Lord power over death.

2825
02:49:04,920 --> 02:49:07,600
This is one of three Nephites
must admit all things to the

2826
02:49:07,600 --> 02:49:14,600
confirmation of the Holy Ghost.
So to me this.

2827
02:49:14,960 --> 02:49:17,640
So there shall be many who shall
receive the part of the world,

2828
02:49:17,640 --> 02:49:21,720
or you know the elect.
Even the prophets may make this

2829
02:49:21,720 --> 02:49:27,600
mistake, right?
This mistake of believing

2830
02:49:27,600 --> 02:49:31,360
polygamy is can be justifiable
before God.

2831
02:49:34,280 --> 02:49:37,040
I like there's certain
situations where it can happen,

2832
02:49:37,840 --> 02:49:45,870
but in those days, here's the
other.

2833
02:49:45,870 --> 02:49:47,510
Here's something funny about the
Nemenhah record.

2834
02:49:47,630 --> 02:49:53,720
Fun fact, the Nemenhah record
consists of like dozens of

2835
02:49:53,720 --> 02:49:56,280
different prophets and
prophetesses.

2836
02:49:56,520 --> 02:50:00,120
OK.
For some reason all they want to

2837
02:50:00,120 --> 02:50:03,960
do is talk about our day.
Interesting.

2838
02:50:05,760 --> 02:50:09,120
They don't What's?
What's that?

2839
02:50:09,400 --> 02:50:10,400
Oh, nothing.
Go ahead.

2840
02:50:11,280 --> 02:50:14,480
Well, they'll have entire
sermons that are directed

2841
02:50:14,480 --> 02:50:17,880
directly to our day.
Gotcha.

2842
02:50:18,560 --> 02:50:22,720
And I just find it kind of
interesting how fixated they

2843
02:50:22,720 --> 02:50:25,000
are.
Like, you know, in the Book of

2844
02:50:25,000 --> 02:50:27,280
Mormon, Nephi does.
He sees our day.

2845
02:50:27,720 --> 02:50:29,960
Right.
And at the end of the Book of

2846
02:50:29,960 --> 02:50:32,080
Mormon, Moroni sees our day.
Yep.

2847
02:50:33,360 --> 02:50:38,280
But King Mosiah doesn't say, oh,
and I know your day, nebulous

2848
02:50:38,280 --> 02:50:41,800
future reader, and the Lord
showed me that you're in this

2849
02:50:41,800 --> 02:50:43,400
day of apostasy.
You do this wrong.

2850
02:50:43,400 --> 02:50:45,240
You do that wrong and you've got
this off.

2851
02:50:47,040 --> 02:50:50,200
And Alma doesn't say he's
teaching Corey Anton, you know,

2852
02:50:50,400 --> 02:50:52,760
about sexual sin.
And then he breaks off and then

2853
02:50:52,840 --> 02:50:54,880
probably I've seen in the last.
Days.

2854
02:50:55,520 --> 02:50:58,320
That the the Gentile church
will.

2855
02:50:59,200 --> 02:51:02,640
But these guys just really every
single one of their prophets

2856
02:51:02,640 --> 02:51:05,360
apparently has seen our all, all
of them have seen our day.

2857
02:51:05,720 --> 02:51:08,000
And it's one of the primary
things that they want to talk

2858
02:51:08,000 --> 02:51:13,440
about to their people because
this is Timothy preaching to

2859
02:51:14,000 --> 02:51:17,600
their people.
This wasn't for us.

2860
02:51:17,600 --> 02:51:19,760
This was for the Nemenha, right?
I mean, if you went there to

2861
02:51:19,760 --> 02:51:24,400
teach the Nemenha.
Right, but yet they print our

2862
02:51:24,400 --> 02:51:27,360
day quite often.
But they're constantly talking

2863
02:51:27,360 --> 02:51:30,160
about our day.
Interesting.

2864
02:51:30,880 --> 02:51:37,560
So they're suggesting that
because of a a custom in our day

2865
02:51:38,400 --> 02:51:43,880
and because men deny revelation
in our day, that the prophet

2866
02:51:43,880 --> 02:51:48,400
makes a mistake because he
doesn't, because he doesn't

2867
02:51:48,400 --> 02:51:50,560
submit all things to the
confirmation of the Holy Ghost.

2868
02:51:54,320 --> 02:51:56,520
You know, I feel like, I feel
like it's.

2869
02:51:56,560 --> 02:51:59,200
Subtle.
I feel like this is exactly

2870
02:51:59,200 --> 02:52:04,560
where where the polygamy deniers
will end up at some point, right

2871
02:52:04,800 --> 02:52:07,800
when when the evidence becomes
too overwhelming that Joseph

2872
02:52:07,800 --> 02:52:11,440
Smith practice plural marriage,
they will adopt something very

2873
02:52:11,440 --> 02:52:15,520
similar to this argument here.
Right, they said Joseph made a

2874
02:52:15,520 --> 02:52:19,040
mistake.
Yep, Yep, you can write that one

2875
02:52:19,040 --> 02:52:20,760
down.
I'll, I'll live and die on that

2876
02:52:20,760 --> 02:52:22,320
hill.
That'll happen at some point.

2877
02:52:22,320 --> 02:52:26,320
Once, once it's, you know, just
way, way, way too much

2878
02:52:26,320 --> 02:52:27,840
information.
I don't know how much more they

2879
02:52:27,840 --> 02:52:31,520
need, but once, once
everything's all opened up,

2880
02:52:31,520 --> 02:52:33,760
they, they, they will make this
argument.

2881
02:52:33,760 --> 02:52:36,920
This will be Michelle Brady
Stone's new favorite argument

2882
02:52:36,920 --> 02:52:38,040
when that day happens.
I'm.

2883
02:52:39,120 --> 02:52:40,320
Going to disagree with you,
Dave.

2884
02:52:40,920 --> 02:52:42,840
Really.
Because yeah, I'm going to

2885
02:52:42,840 --> 02:52:45,080
disagree with you on this one
because I believe we live in

2886
02:52:45,080 --> 02:52:47,480
something called a post truth
world.

2887
02:52:47,600 --> 02:52:48,720
Well.
OK, Yeah.

2888
02:52:49,720 --> 02:52:51,000
And.
The.

2889
02:52:51,240 --> 02:52:53,800
Things like rational
explanation, you know, things

2890
02:52:53,800 --> 02:52:56,520
like boys and girls, these
things apparently don't make

2891
02:52:56,520 --> 02:52:59,000
sense anymore.
Right, right, my bad and.

2892
02:53:00,160 --> 02:53:03,640
So when you have a population
here in the country, maybe a

2893
02:53:03,640 --> 02:53:07,120
minority, but nonetheless a
population, a class of people in

2894
02:53:07,120 --> 02:53:11,480
America that that are struggling
and, and knowing what a woman

2895
02:53:11,480 --> 02:53:13,000
is.
Right.

2896
02:53:13,400 --> 02:53:15,720
Then I think there will always
be polygamy deniers.

2897
02:53:16,720 --> 02:53:18,560
That's a good point.
You're probably right.

2898
02:53:18,960 --> 02:53:21,440
You're probably right.
However, I, I.

2899
02:53:22,200 --> 02:53:24,200
I hope you're right.
Though, Dave, I have a profound

2900
02:53:24,360 --> 02:53:27,040
hope that someday truth and
reason win.

2901
02:53:27,040 --> 02:53:30,680
My bad.
That truth and reason will win

2902
02:53:30,680 --> 02:53:33,400
and people will deny polygamy
because Joseph was wrong.

2903
02:53:33,840 --> 02:53:36,320
Right.
Yeah, yeah, you're so.

2904
02:53:36,320 --> 02:53:39,160
Optimistic.
I know, I know, I, I really am.

2905
02:53:40,120 --> 02:53:45,560
This is insidious, right?
And, and this is where where I

2906
02:53:45,560 --> 02:53:51,600
will say that that this goes
beyond maybe somebody who was

2907
02:53:53,440 --> 02:53:58,640
feeling inspired and now it's
becoming something a little more

2908
02:53:58,640 --> 02:54:02,200
insidious because now they're
planting the seeds of doubt in

2909
02:54:02,200 --> 02:54:05,400
the dispensation head.
Oh yeah?

2910
02:54:05,480 --> 02:54:07,960
Well.
And that's, that's a problem

2911
02:54:08,880 --> 02:54:13,080
because as, as they did with the
founding fathers, right, not,

2912
02:54:13,120 --> 02:54:18,320
not these group, group of folks,
but as the progressive did with

2913
02:54:18,320 --> 02:54:23,520
the founding fathers, if you can
just discredit the founder, you

2914
02:54:23,520 --> 02:54:28,840
then can take the message that
they were, that they were giving

2915
02:54:28,960 --> 02:54:32,480
and twist it into something it's
not right.

2916
02:54:32,840 --> 02:54:37,120
And this decoupling of that from
Joseph Smith by being, by

2917
02:54:37,120 --> 02:54:40,640
saying, you know what, Joseph
got this wrong.

2918
02:54:41,640 --> 02:54:45,400
This will cast aspersion on
everything else Joseph Smith did

2919
02:54:45,400 --> 02:54:49,440
and they will remake.
And this, I'll get to that at

2920
02:54:49,440 --> 02:54:52,920
the end, but, but I, I, I think
I see where they're going here

2921
02:54:53,080 --> 02:54:55,320
ultimately.
Right, right.

2922
02:54:55,760 --> 02:54:57,200
So that was from the third
volume.

2923
02:54:57,360 --> 02:55:05,760
Let's look at the 4th volume.
This is Moroni he says here in

2924
02:55:05,800 --> 02:55:10,200
chapter 4 verse 13.
And I have seen that the Lord

2925
02:55:10,200 --> 02:55:11,480
shall work upon the hearts of
men.

2926
02:55:11,480 --> 02:55:15,240
Assisi's fit and the Holy Ghost
is continually strive with all

2927
02:55:15,240 --> 02:55:17,640
men and women who have the
capacity to set aside the world

2928
02:55:17,640 --> 02:55:20,280
in its wickedness.
And I have seen that the Lord

2929
02:55:20,280 --> 02:55:24,320
will use the Gentiles to do a
great, to do a great work and a

2930
02:55:24,320 --> 02:55:28,400
great preparation, but they
shall not bring against Zion.

2931
02:55:29,520 --> 02:55:32,840
Nevertheless they shall prepare
the way before those that shall.

2932
02:55:35,160 --> 02:55:38,280
So Joseph Smith's.
Joseph Smith's restoration was

2933
02:55:38,280 --> 02:55:41,960
not really a restoration, it was
more of a preparation.

2934
02:55:43,040 --> 02:55:45,160
Interesting.
They prepare the way for this,

2935
02:55:48,240 --> 02:55:50,200
and they used John the Baptist
as an example.

2936
02:55:51,400 --> 02:55:58,160
OK, so Mormonism, John the
Baptist, Nehemonism, Jesus.

2937
02:55:58,480 --> 02:55:59,520
Gotcha.
Yep.

2938
02:56:00,880 --> 02:56:03,800
And I have walked upon the way,
and seen the day of wickedness,

2939
02:56:03,800 --> 02:56:07,280
and you may believe me that the
day which I have seen surpasses

2940
02:56:07,280 --> 02:56:09,120
all the wickedness of all the
ages.

2941
02:56:09,120 --> 02:56:12,040
But behold, I have seen that the
record which I did seal up in a

2942
02:56:12,040 --> 02:56:16,320
box and place in the library at
Corryanton, even in Comora.

2943
02:56:16,720 --> 02:56:20,240
So I'll be chosen of the Lord,
and delivered up unto a prophet

2944
02:56:20,240 --> 02:56:23,080
in the last days.
And though that prophet shall

2945
02:56:23,080 --> 02:56:26,760
not be found perfect in all
things, yet shall the book that

2946
02:56:26,760 --> 02:56:30,320
shall come to light through him
be unto the Gentiles a guide and

2947
02:56:30,320 --> 02:56:33,040
an anchor.
And through it a generation

2948
02:56:33,040 --> 02:56:35,920
shall be prepared to come again
out of Babylon, and to establish

2949
02:56:35,920 --> 02:56:37,720
Zion, and again in this blessed
land.

2950
02:56:39,160 --> 02:56:42,520
It's funny that Moroni thinks
that this Book of Mormon is for

2951
02:56:42,520 --> 02:56:45,640
the Gentiles.
That's not what the Book of

2952
02:56:45,640 --> 02:56:48,560
Mormon says.
That's not what Moroni even says

2953
02:56:48,560 --> 02:56:49,840
in the book of.
Mormon, No.

2954
02:56:50,520 --> 02:56:52,240
So.
All Night Chapter 1 he talks.

2955
02:56:52,240 --> 02:56:54,600
About how I'm.
I've got a few pages left.

2956
02:56:54,600 --> 02:56:56,880
I thought I could write a few
more things and I dedicate, I

2957
02:56:56,880 --> 02:56:58,880
dedicate this to my brethren,
the Lamanites.

2958
02:56:59,160 --> 02:57:04,640
Yeah, yeah, so, so again,
another internal conflict.

2959
02:57:05,560 --> 02:57:08,840
Yeah, and this idea that, you
know, here's the thing.

2960
02:57:08,840 --> 02:57:11,160
Joseph Smith was definitely not
perfect in all things.

2961
02:57:11,520 --> 02:57:14,480
Right.
That's obvious.

2962
02:57:14,480 --> 02:57:16,640
Why would you need the?
Nobody is other than price, so

2963
02:57:16,640 --> 02:57:21,080
why spell it out unless you're
alluding to something specific?

2964
02:57:21,320 --> 02:57:26,280
Yep, which I'm guessing comes
down a little later on.

2965
02:57:27,080 --> 02:57:29,120
You all here's one more.
This is a different topic

2966
02:57:29,120 --> 02:57:30,840
actually, but I do.
It doesn't.

2967
02:57:31,000 --> 02:57:33,680
I don't think anywhere does it
explicitly say that Joseph Smith

2968
02:57:33,680 --> 02:57:36,880
fell over polygamy.
It just kind of implies it.

2969
02:57:37,320 --> 02:57:40,960
OK.
As we've seen, however, this is

2970
02:57:40,960 --> 02:57:44,080
a direct call out.
OK, so this is in Volume 6

2971
02:57:44,240 --> 02:57:45,760
towards the end of the of the
record.

2972
02:57:45,760 --> 02:57:53,720
Here it's Teeny Cumset, chapter
2, verse 20.

2973
02:57:54,400 --> 02:57:57,400
Wherefore I deem it good to
write in this record how that

2974
02:57:57,400 --> 02:57:59,840
even in the midst of great
drought, which does befall the

2975
02:57:59,840 --> 02:58:02,240
Western countries.
Oh, they're all in Missouri at

2976
02:58:02,240 --> 02:58:05,640
this point.
May not all, a lot of the

2977
02:58:05,640 --> 02:58:07,040
Nemenha are in Missouri at this
point.

2978
02:58:07,040 --> 02:58:11,440
That's where the writings are
coming out of now, which does

2979
02:58:11,440 --> 02:58:13,920
befall the Western countries and
the plains because they had to

2980
02:58:13,920 --> 02:58:16,200
abandon the West because of the
drought.

2981
02:58:16,920 --> 02:58:19,440
Gotcha.
Yet are we cared for by the

2982
02:58:19,440 --> 02:58:22,760
earth most abundantly, and how
even though we too have less

2983
02:58:22,760 --> 02:58:25,400
rain than in past years, yet we
have enough to sustain us.

2984
02:58:25,400 --> 02:58:28,160
Behold, it is my belief that the
Lord shall attempt to teach this

2985
02:58:28,160 --> 02:58:31,960
unto the that Gentile whom He
shall raise up among the

2986
02:58:31,960 --> 02:58:35,400
Gentiles that come into this
land to take possession of it.

2987
02:58:36,440 --> 02:58:39,880
Joseph Smith.
Yeah, he shall attempt to bring

2988
02:58:39,880 --> 02:58:43,120
a knowledge of the workings of
this land into the heart and

2989
02:58:43,120 --> 02:58:47,080
minds of his people, of his of
his into the into the heart and

2990
02:58:47,280 --> 02:58:51,000
and the mind of his prophet.
And this same prophet shall try

2991
02:58:51,000 --> 02:58:53,240
to convey the will of the Lord
unto the people.

2992
02:58:55,280 --> 02:59:00,760
But behold, he shall be torn by
the people, and he shall not

2993
02:59:00,760 --> 02:59:03,200
follow the Lord's dictates
himself.

2994
02:59:04,440 --> 02:59:09,280
Nay, he shall not take up his
own habitation and remove to the

2995
02:59:09,280 --> 02:59:12,680
place himself.
Wherefore it is not difficult to

2996
02:59:12,680 --> 02:59:15,880
understand why the people whom
the Lord had gathered into his

2997
02:59:15,880 --> 02:59:19,120
prophet also refused to listen
to the revelations concerning

2998
02:59:19,120 --> 02:59:21,800
this land.
Yeah, they preferred to follow

2999
02:59:21,800 --> 02:59:24,040
the dictates of their own hearts
and lean upon their own

3000
02:59:24,040 --> 02:59:26,360
understanding.
For behold, this is the ensample

3001
02:59:26,360 --> 02:59:28,560
their own prophet lived, and
they followed him.

3002
02:59:31,920 --> 02:59:33,200
Does this seem?
Harsh.

3003
02:59:34,000 --> 02:59:37,760
That dude, that's, that's
horrific.

3004
02:59:38,960 --> 02:59:44,080
That is horrific.
Yeah, yeah.

3005
02:59:44,800 --> 02:59:49,520
So Zion failed because because
Joseph Smith didn't move to

3006
02:59:49,520 --> 02:59:52,680
Missouri fast enough or
shouldn't have left when I mean

3007
02:59:52,680 --> 02:59:54,000
because this thing he did go to
Missouri.

3008
02:59:54,960 --> 02:59:56,760
Yeah, and I don't.
Know whether they're trying to

3009
02:59:56,760 --> 03:00:00,120
say he didn't go soon enough or
he shouldn't have left when his

3010
03:00:00,120 --> 03:00:01,840
life was in danger, but either
way.

3011
03:00:02,320 --> 03:00:05,080
Yeah.
No, they're they're, they're

3012
03:00:05,080 --> 03:00:07,560
taking Joseph Smith to task here
in this.

3013
03:00:08,280 --> 03:00:13,440
Yeah, absolutely.
And you know, you might, you

3014
03:00:13,440 --> 03:00:17,520
might think maybe it's not good
to speak evil if the Lord's

3015
03:00:17,520 --> 03:00:21,040
anointed, but they point out
that that is not their doctrine

3016
03:00:21,800 --> 03:00:27,760
explicitly.
Does this seem harsh, that one

3017
03:00:27,760 --> 03:00:31,040
out of the past should utter
such such concerning the

3018
03:00:31,040 --> 03:00:33,560
workings of a prophet who will
not live in the land for many

3019
03:00:33,560 --> 03:00:37,600
generations?
It may well seem so, but my

3020
03:00:37,600 --> 03:00:40,160
Father saw these things clearly,
and behold, the Holy Ghost has

3021
03:00:40,160 --> 03:00:42,360
confirmed them unto me.
And I do believe the things that

3022
03:00:42,360 --> 03:00:43,240
my father saw.
Oh.

3023
03:00:48,400 --> 03:00:51,840
It's like, it's, it's like
whoever wrote it is actually

3024
03:00:51,840 --> 03:00:55,040
like in the process of trying to
excuse themselves because they

3025
03:00:55,040 --> 03:01:02,360
he, they know that to a, a
believing Mormon, this is going

3026
03:01:02,360 --> 03:01:05,960
to come across as blasphemy.
Right.

3027
03:01:06,560 --> 03:01:11,240
Could you imagine like if the
prophet Isaiah in the middle of

3028
03:01:11,400 --> 03:01:13,840
of the, the stuff kind of breaks
off, is like, oh, you know what,

3029
03:01:13,840 --> 03:01:15,840
there's going to be this prophet
Jeremiah.

3030
03:01:16,120 --> 03:01:19,440
And you know what?
It's his fault that, that, that,

3031
03:01:19,480 --> 03:01:21,680
that my people end up getting
taken to Babylon.

3032
03:01:22,440 --> 03:01:25,240
It's totally Jeremiah's fault.
He blows it.

3033
03:01:25,360 --> 03:01:27,120
He he's not perfect in all
things.

3034
03:01:27,120 --> 03:01:31,960
And, and yeah, I've got this.
I've got this issue with him.

3035
03:01:33,440 --> 03:01:35,080
Does that sound like what a
prophet says?

3036
03:01:35,920 --> 03:01:38,560
No, goodness, what they just did
is.

3037
03:01:38,560 --> 03:01:42,560
Even if it's true.
I know they just laid every

3038
03:01:42,560 --> 03:01:46,640
failing every Mormon ever had at
Joseph Smith's feet.

3039
03:01:47,960 --> 03:01:49,520
Yeah.
Man, they did.

3040
03:01:49,800 --> 03:01:53,120
I don't think that's fair.
I that no, that's not fair.

3041
03:01:53,120 --> 03:01:56,160
I, I think I'll, I'll, I'll take
some of that responsibility

3042
03:01:56,160 --> 03:02:00,280
even.
Yeah, I exactly Who?

3043
03:02:01,000 --> 03:02:06,040
Justin, That's brutal.
Yeah, it is.

3044
03:02:06,800 --> 03:02:11,960
So I don't get the feeling that
this this Nemenha Rev religion

3045
03:02:11,960 --> 03:02:14,840
really has a very positive take
on Joseph Smith.

3046
03:02:15,000 --> 03:02:16,920
No, no.
Yeah, you can.

3047
03:02:16,920 --> 03:02:21,840
You can say they they pretty
much throw the dispensation head

3048
03:02:21,840 --> 03:02:24,560
right under the bus here.
Right.

3049
03:02:25,480 --> 03:02:30,360
So there's a few other really
important topics.

3050
03:02:30,360 --> 03:02:33,400
I maybe won't cover all of them,
but I want to talk about

3051
03:02:33,400 --> 03:02:35,600
baptisms.
OK, so that's where we're going

3052
03:02:35,600 --> 03:02:37,920
to stop today.
Now, next week, we will continue

3053
03:02:37,920 --> 03:02:41,200
this topic as Justin and I
breakdown the Nemenha records

3054
03:02:41,200 --> 03:02:44,960
views on baptism, plural
marriage and a smoking gun that

3055
03:02:44,960 --> 03:02:47,480
really calls into question the
authenticity of the book.

3056
03:02:47,840 --> 03:02:50,240
So you'll definitely want to
check that out next week.

3057
03:02:50,480 --> 03:02:52,880
Thanks again for listening and
see you next week.

3058
03:02:53,080 --> 03:03:24,120
Bye everybody.
The.