Episode #47: Evidence For The Historicity Of The Book Of Mormon W/Ken Peterson

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As Mormons, one of the things we
constantly get beat over the

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head with by
pseudo-intellectuals, is this

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argument?
Well, if the Book of Mormon is

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an actual account of historical
events, certainly, we should be

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able to find evidence has.
Now, if you'll excuse me, me and

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Muffy need to get back to
reading this inspired piece of

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holy, writ known as the CES
letter.

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Well, today you're going to get
some facts and figures you can

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use to defend the historicity of
the Book of Mormon.

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Me Ken Peterson joins me again,
where we will break down the

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evidences in support of the
historicity of the Book of

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Mormon.
Using these five disciplines,

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those are one archaeology to
Linguistics, three geographical

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for geological, and finally
fifth cultural.

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Now, you may not agree with
where pain believes the Book of

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Mormon took place, but is Ken
and I break down, evidences from

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all five of these categories.
I think you'll see that as

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Believers in the Book of Mormon,
we have Every reason to be

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assured that the accounts in the
Book of Mormon happened, just

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like it says it did.
And that's next on this episode

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Intent.

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Thanks.
You're listening to the Mormon

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Renegade podcast.
Can I do?

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I love our conversations.
I'm so glad you always are so

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willing to come on because it's
just fascinating.

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I mean, you put in so much work
into this stuff and I'm just

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glad you're here, man.
Well have to say visiting with

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you even over to my in-person in
probably be out of control but

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we I don't know I feel a real
intellectual kinship with you

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similar questions and similar
Avenues and and I'm always

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pleasantly surprised by the your
awareness of certain things and

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I can't wait to embark on our
conversation tonight.

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I've been looking forward to
this ever since you mentioned

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it.
Yeah.

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So when we talked last night, I
mean not last.

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Night.
But when we talked the last

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time, after our previous
conversation, we just kind of

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left it hanging.
I, you know, we told everyone,

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hey, you're coming back on but
we didn't go into great detail

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about what it was.
We were going to talk about and

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I'm glad I did because if
there's one thing I figured out

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and doing this podcast, if I tip
my hand too early, I can count

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on somebody else coming back out
and so I would, we would

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essentially be on defense.
So I kind of kept this one close

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to the vest for Reason and I
feel like what you're going to

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be presenting here is so so
important.

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Because right now, one of the
main ways that the gospel gets

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attacked is two things, they
attack the founding leadership

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of the restored gospel whether
that's Joseph or Brigham or John

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Taylor or Wilford, Woodruff,
whatever the case is, or they

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attack the historicity of the
Book of Mormon.

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Oh yeah, yeah.
That's that's their big push and

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so when you and I talked off,
are last time we talked about a

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presentation, I guess that you
had on the historicity of the

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Book of Mormon, right?
And with the CES letter out and

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that's done Untold damage to
folks.

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I mean, yes, I've met more than
one family who just feel

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devastated by this.
This fact that you have this

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letter that's put out.
And basically it's a letter

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that's addressed to a member of
CES Church educational system,

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which just write those down this
list of grievances.

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Yeah, he revisits it, he puts a
lot in.

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So, as you and I talked about
the historicity of the Book of

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Mormon tonight, I'm super
excited because my hope is that

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this gets passed around to some
folks that maybe have had Their

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testimonies damaged a little
bit, whether by the CES letter,

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whatever else it might be.
So yeah, I'm super excited for

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this Camp.
Well, the whole thing of the,

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this short list of my favorite
evidences, for the historicity

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of the Book of Mormon started as
the result of an online

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conversation with now, a fairly
well-known ex-mormon.

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I will say who it is, who become
fashionable for the

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intellectual, or pseudo
intellectual ladder.

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Day Saints to say, we just need
to admit that the Book of Mormon

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is not historical, you know, it,
you know, that that seems to be

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One of the war cries of the
progressive Mormon movement, as

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I read that, I was dumbfounded.
I in my experience, in my life,

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there has never been more
evidence and more reason to

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believe in the historicity of
the Book of Mormon, then we have

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now especially within the last
four years with the Advent of

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lidar.
We're going to talk about that.

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Absolutely.
Absolutely.

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And and look, I don't care if
someone is spouses a Heartland

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model, I don't care.
If someone espouses a

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Mesoamerican model, I don't
care.

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Right.
That's that's one of those

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things where again it's that's
kind of an internal debate

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right?
I don't care.

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That's it.
Is the other hand.

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It does have a lot to do with
what we're going to discuss

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tonight so I and it's all going
to put that out there, okay?

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Dominate the discussion but it
is a part in terms of the

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evidences and where they're
located, especially in

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relationship to their
geographical relationship, it is

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kind of important, okay?
A, although I mean, there are

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evidences I would admit and in
both Heartland in the meso

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America model, but we'll get
into that.

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But to give you an idea.
At the first part around 2001,

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dr.
John Clarke of the new world

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archaeological foundation and
compiled a list of 60 items

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mentioned in the Book of Mormon.
The list includes items, like

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steel swords, barley cement
Thrones, literacy etcetera.

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A dozen years after the Book of
Mormon was printed.

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So we're talking about 1840, 42
gray.

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Only 13% of those 60 items,
eight of them could be confirmed

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archaeologically.
So in the Book of Mormon is

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published, 13% of it could be
confirmed, right of those items

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back it at the turn of the 21st
Century Year 2000 dish. 45 of

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those 60 items have now been
confirmed, who my archaeological

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evidence that 75%.
Now, look at what has happened

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within the last 23 years,
particularly with the Advent of

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lidar, I would like to see that
study done again.

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I don't know that it hasn't met,
I but I can't Peterson would

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estimate that.
Those 40 items are now close to

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50 items.
I we're approaching 90 percent

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confirmation, but you see that
the trend of confirming the

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claims of the hit the historical
claims of Book of Mormon is only

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getting better and better and
better.

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Why would that Trend to reverse
this point?

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Where In a certain point you
have to say he knew something

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sure he did a lot of things he
shouldn't and in such detail if

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which, we'll talk about anyway.
Yeah.

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And and I feel like so as a guy
who's a convert to Mormonism

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period, I'll say this.
If it didn't happen, like it

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said, go ahead.
Am I doing what am I doing,

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right?
We should know.

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We should know.
Because the thing is, is that if

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Didn't happen.
I'm staying home on the couch

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and eating Doritos.
It really diving deep into into

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fantasy football, right?
Because because you know, don't

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get me wrong.
The gospel brings me joy but one

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of the reasons it brings me joy
is because I know it's true,

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right?
Yes yes, yes, yes.

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And so while and that's why I
respect folks like Hannah

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Stoddard and and you know people
who come up. up with these

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models, whether it's
Mesoamerican or Heartland

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because If it did happen, we
should find evidence.

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And so, when when folks like
yourself Meldrum, folks, who

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espouse in mesoamerica model,
Hannah, Stoddard, they come out

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and said, no, this really
happens and they present

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evidence, that's good, that's
evidence.

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We should have that's evidence
that we absolutely should have

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because There's guys, like you
and I and we talked about this

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on our first podcast, where
guys, like you and I why we

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receive spiritual confirmations.
We're also big on the cerebral

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end of things, right?
Right.

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We like to know.
Yeah, so the fact that they're

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out there is just fantastic.
And there are thousands of them

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not even, not even talking about
them as individual items and I

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can't stress this enough.
And I want people to know nearly

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everything you and I are going
to discuss tonight is found

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online.
A tackle, the Jean Welch, who

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was the discoverer of Caius on
his mission in the 60s, which

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we'll talk about to he
spearheaded this Effort to make

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all of these evidences available
free online for the whole world

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to see Book of Mormon Central
dot org evidence Central dot

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org.
And then when we talk about book

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of Abraham stuff, there's pearl
of great price Central dot org,

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when you compile each of those
entries and put them together,

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it numbers over thousand and I
The database grows day by day.

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So yes, go ahead.
If I'm not mistaken, it grew

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just in the last few months,
right?

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Because all of a sudden, one of
the CES letters, major critic

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criticisms was there are no
horses here and in a lot of that

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time and then what do scientists
discover?

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You know, you know, I don't know
how long, the see less CES

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letter has been out now, I want
to save the better part of a

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decade.
Yeah.

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And just that short time what,
what do archaeologists discover

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horses in that area, During that
time period, I agree.

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Now, the crazy thing is, if you
look on Wikipedia and you look

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at the Book of Mormon
anachronisms, they will still

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list all of those things because
they're behind the science

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behind the science.
And even if you Google, it

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doesn't even have to be an LDS
website.

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If you Google pre-columbian
horses in America, you will see

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non-lds Scholars, displaying how
this tide has turned.

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There is clear evidence of
pre-columbian In horses in the

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Americas.
It's not a question of if

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anymore.
It's question of how late,

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right?
Or were they here even when

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Columbus arrived right and his
client and and what I find

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fascinating is that we as
Believers are expected to answer

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every criticism that comes
forward.

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Yeah but whenever my upon try to
do that I enjoy that.

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I really do, I know but But the
dichotomy is that when something

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comes out in favor of it.
It's quiet, right?

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Nobody wants to say anything.
Good job.

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Good job performance.
Congratulations.

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Right?
Not everyone's like Well, it

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probably isn't what we think it
is or you know they're just real

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00:14:30,000 --> 00:14:32,800
quiet about it.
Can they don't know why?

226
00:14:32,800 --> 00:14:35,200
I thought I could put myself in
their shoes.

227
00:14:36,200 --> 00:14:41,300
I mean if if I were an atheist
and I'm of the mentality that

228
00:14:41,300 --> 00:14:45,000
without the evidence is that
that we're discussing and have

229
00:14:45,000 --> 00:14:53,000
discussed, I might be And that.
I'm so innately skeptical that's

230
00:14:53,000 --> 00:14:56,500
kind of where I where I would
land naturally.

231
00:14:56,800 --> 00:14:58,400
Sure.
So if someone were to show me

232
00:14:58,400 --> 00:15:03,200
proof positive that an angel
named Moroni appeared to a 14

233
00:15:03,200 --> 00:15:07,800
year old boy called him to be a
prophet and the were all

234
00:15:07,800 --> 00:15:11,300
destined for exaltation.
Remember for immortality in this

235
00:15:11,500 --> 00:15:14,500
world is going to be a
terrestrial World in a few years

236
00:15:16,100 --> 00:15:20,000
if that that would be a paradigm
shift that I don't think.

237
00:15:20,100 --> 00:15:23,600
I could it's just, it's a bridge
too far.

238
00:15:24,500 --> 00:15:27,000
I mean, there's that leap of
faith to take.

239
00:15:27,600 --> 00:15:30,100
We've talked about Force, the
craziest story ever told.

240
00:15:30,300 --> 00:15:33,500
It is.
It's look, if you didn't receive

241
00:15:33,500 --> 00:15:37,900
a testimony of it for yourself,
it's a bat-crap crazy story.

242
00:15:38,000 --> 00:15:40,700
Pardon the expression, right?
His truth is.

243
00:15:40,700 --> 00:15:43,200
I understand that.
I understand the silence, but

244
00:15:43,700 --> 00:15:46,600
just as I was going over my
notes for our discussion

245
00:15:46,600 --> 00:15:50,700
tonight, in my skeptical mind
has not Not gone away.

246
00:15:50,700 --> 00:15:53,000
It's still there.
And, you know, you go through

247
00:15:53,000 --> 00:15:55,600
life and you're working in your,
your mind, and your feelings

248
00:15:55,600 --> 00:15:57,600
become callous.
And you keep thinking, man, this

249
00:15:57,600 --> 00:16:00,400
really is crazy.
I go over these notes again and

250
00:16:00,400 --> 00:16:05,600
all these items, one by one and
my mind is reeling like it

251
00:16:05,600 --> 00:16:13,900
really It really, it's true.
Hilda Smith told the truth, what

252
00:16:13,900 --> 00:16:16,600
are you going to do about and
each time I go through these

253
00:16:16,600 --> 00:16:17,900
things?
Each time I learn something new.

254
00:16:18,500 --> 00:16:22,900
The Wonder of it is still fresh
on me because of my natural

255
00:16:22,900 --> 00:16:24,500
skeptic mind.
Yeah.

256
00:16:25,300 --> 00:16:30,300
And I don't understand even as
recently, as yesterday, I was

257
00:16:30,300 --> 00:16:36,900
having one of these discussions
with a detractor on my Facebook

258
00:16:37,900 --> 00:16:41,900
or my darkened, Apocrypha page
and and when you present them

259
00:16:41,900 --> 00:16:44,900
and he was apparently a trial
attorneys what he said and I

260
00:16:44,908 --> 00:16:48,400
presented him with, you know,
these three pages of links and

261
00:16:48,400 --> 00:16:52,000
evidences And he says it's all
baloney and I said, well,

262
00:16:52,000 --> 00:16:53,700
clearly you didn't read the
evidence.

263
00:16:55,100 --> 00:16:56,700
Right.
Yeah, I did but it's still below

264
00:16:56,700 --> 00:17:01,600
me and my response is well, if
you read the evidence and you

265
00:17:01,600 --> 00:17:04,700
reject, it just because it
happens to be collected on an

266
00:17:04,700 --> 00:17:08,400
LDS oriented website that makes
you prejudiced.

267
00:17:08,800 --> 00:17:11,000
Yep.
A religious big it because

268
00:17:11,800 --> 00:17:14,900
here's what John Welch and the
Book of Mormon central people

269
00:17:16,000 --> 00:17:20,099
Really want to, because the,
he's he's an academic, he's an

270
00:17:20,099 --> 00:17:24,000
attorney, he's not dumb, he
knows the demands and the rigors

271
00:17:24,000 --> 00:17:28,000
of scholarship, they made these
websites scholarly.

272
00:17:28,600 --> 00:17:31,200
So when you look up, they call
the no wise to make them more

273
00:17:31,200 --> 00:17:33,200
approachable.
That if you look at the

274
00:17:33,208 --> 00:17:38,300
footnotes, there are all
meticulously footnoted, siding

275
00:17:39,900 --> 00:17:44,000
top-notch colors of the day.
Not predominantly LDS colors.

276
00:17:44,200 --> 00:17:46,800
Yes, you will find out.
This colors in there yet as we

277
00:17:46,800 --> 00:17:50,100
should, as you would expect.
But most of them are not who

278
00:17:50,100 --> 00:17:53,800
have no bias for or against the
Book of Mormon, right?

279
00:17:53,900 --> 00:17:56,700
The evidences are there.
And so my question is, you've

280
00:17:56,700 --> 00:18:00,400
read the evidences?
And I've challenged all of the,

281
00:18:00,400 --> 00:18:03,000
what refute the evidence as I
post.

282
00:18:03,000 --> 00:18:05,700
Let's talk about the evidence.
Let's go back and forth.

283
00:18:05,700 --> 00:18:09,100
They won't engage they.
Just go into denial.

284
00:18:09,200 --> 00:18:12,200
Well, it's because it's a normal
website, and you're all stupid,

285
00:18:12,200 --> 00:18:15,200
you're all crackpots.
Why don't we talk about the

286
00:18:15,300 --> 00:18:23,200
that's, you know, right and Hi,
Share story here.

287
00:18:23,200 --> 00:18:26,200
So when I was in Maryland, we
did.

288
00:18:26,200 --> 00:18:30,600
We subbed out to I won't name
the organization because I don't

289
00:18:30,600 --> 00:18:33,900
want any.
Yeah, any links back to him

290
00:18:34,700 --> 00:18:38,900
because this would would hurt
his career but we would go out.

291
00:18:38,900 --> 00:18:45,400
And if they were doing a dig we
would go out and map the Dig,

292
00:18:45,400 --> 00:18:47,800
right?
So if we found old partner,

293
00:18:47,800 --> 00:18:51,800
Pottery, shards or /.
Alright, would go out there and

294
00:18:51,800 --> 00:18:53,900
take measurements and show them
where it is on the ground.

295
00:18:54,100 --> 00:18:57,700
Now, we'd make a map out of that
and they would make adjustments

296
00:18:57,700 --> 00:19:00,600
and whatnot.
But I remember something that he

297
00:19:00,600 --> 00:19:02,600
told me that was very
interesting.

298
00:19:02,600 --> 00:19:05,400
I asked this archaeologist, I
said, what's the most

299
00:19:05,400 --> 00:19:09,100
frustrating part of your job
because I was fascinated.

300
00:19:09,100 --> 00:19:11,300
I was like, man, you get to be
Indiana Jones?

301
00:19:11,300 --> 00:19:13,600
Yeah, right.
I mean, you got yes and stuff

302
00:19:13,600 --> 00:19:18,000
going on and he's like, let me
tell you my biggest frustration.

303
00:19:18,000 --> 00:19:22,000
He said my biggest frustration.
It is the fact that we put

304
00:19:22,000 --> 00:19:29,100
together a narrative for all of
human history in 100 years and I

305
00:19:29,108 --> 00:19:35,100
using were using the same models
that we used in 1850 something.

306
00:19:35,400 --> 00:19:38,900
Yeah, and we're discovering that
a lot of these assumptions are

307
00:19:38,900 --> 00:19:42,600
now, blatantly wrong.
Welcome to the world of science.

308
00:19:42,800 --> 00:19:46,000
But That's not the frustrating
part.

309
00:19:46,200 --> 00:19:51,800
The frustrating part is getting
those in that are The

310
00:19:51,800 --> 00:19:56,500
Gatekeepers within that
Community, right to revisit.

311
00:19:56,500 --> 00:20:01,600
And re-examine what they held as
gospel so to speak.

312
00:20:01,700 --> 00:20:05,500
Yeah, because they feel like
it's a threat for some reason.

313
00:20:06,200 --> 00:20:10,800
And and so when we start talking
about Book of Mormon archaeology

314
00:20:10,800 --> 00:20:15,200
and the evidences, I think we
have to come to a conclusion

315
00:20:15,200 --> 00:20:18,300
pretty quickly that at least how
it sets right now.

316
00:20:18,800 --> 00:20:22,900
I don't think modern-day
Academia for the most part is

317
00:20:22,900 --> 00:20:25,600
going to come around to any
evidence.

318
00:20:25,600 --> 00:20:30,000
We would put forward right now,
especially if we put it forward

319
00:20:30,000 --> 00:20:32,000
as evidence for the Book of
Mormon, they're going to reject

320
00:20:32,000 --> 00:20:35,100
it out of an e, which is why I'm
not inclined to do that.

321
00:20:35,600 --> 00:20:37,600
Here's the evidence.
Let's not talk about the Book of

322
00:20:37,600 --> 00:20:39,900
Mormon.
Let's just, let's talk about

323
00:20:39,900 --> 00:20:42,700
this evidence right now.
That's good.

324
00:20:43,000 --> 00:20:44,100
So what do you got?
W.

325
00:20:45,300 --> 00:20:49,700
Well, in the process of this
discussion, I grouped these

326
00:20:49,700 --> 00:20:53,300
evidences into five different
groups and I'm going to let you

327
00:20:53,300 --> 00:20:56,000
pick whatever you want their
geographical evidences

328
00:20:56,700 --> 00:21:00,300
geological evidences, which I
think in Europe, especially

329
00:21:00,300 --> 00:21:03,100
considering your background, you
will die.

330
00:21:03,100 --> 00:21:06,500
When you understand need, some
of those cultural evidences

331
00:21:06,900 --> 00:21:10,900
linguistic, evidences of the, of
the text of The Bookworm in

332
00:21:10,900 --> 00:21:16,500
itself is evidentiary, and
Vehicle evidences, but let's

333
00:21:16,500 --> 00:21:20,200
start with the most recent
archaeological one, just because

334
00:21:20,500 --> 00:21:22,800
it's amazing.
Amazing.

335
00:21:25,900 --> 00:21:30,800
In 2018.
National Geographic.

336
00:21:30,800 --> 00:21:36,400
Broke the story about the very
first large-scale lidar

337
00:21:39,000 --> 00:21:44,000
investigation of the muted or
area of the Yucatan Peninsula

338
00:21:44,800 --> 00:21:47,000
map before you have too much
farther.

339
00:21:47,000 --> 00:21:50,200
Let me explain to those who may
not know what lidar is.

340
00:21:50,200 --> 00:21:53,200
I use lidar?
Yes, lidar.

341
00:21:54,300 --> 00:21:58,100
Typically, you can hook it to a
plane, or even a drone now, and

342
00:21:58,100 --> 00:22:01,000
it's, it almost looks like a
camera and it mounts to the

343
00:22:01,000 --> 00:22:03,300
bottom.
And what it does is that it

344
00:22:03,300 --> 00:22:07,000
sends out essentially what our
infrared lasers, which can

345
00:22:07,000 --> 00:22:12,100
penetrate tree, canopy on their
software, where you can remove

346
00:22:12,100 --> 00:22:14,200
that canopy.
I've worked with it, some and

347
00:22:14,200 --> 00:22:18,500
I'm just fascinated by it.
So, this gives an archaeologist

348
00:22:18,800 --> 00:22:21,200
or whoever's running the Drone,
or the plane.

349
00:22:22,400 --> 00:22:25,700
The opportunity to see what lays
beneath tree cover.

350
00:22:25,700 --> 00:22:29,400
So yeah, the case of South
America or Central America, you

351
00:22:29,400 --> 00:22:32,200
get to strip away all of that
without actually having to go

352
00:22:32,200 --> 00:22:34,900
cut down trees or chop, which is
all there is there.

353
00:22:35,300 --> 00:22:37,500
Yeah, I mean the girls are so
thick you can't see anything,

354
00:22:37,500 --> 00:22:38,600
right?
Yep.

355
00:22:38,800 --> 00:22:42,400
And, and if you look at a lot of
those old pictures of when they

356
00:22:42,400 --> 00:22:47,400
were just discovering some of
those old buildings and whatnot,

357
00:22:47,400 --> 00:22:50,800
they look, we'll just like Hills
because over time dirt gets on

358
00:22:50,800 --> 00:22:54,400
them and so those Step period,
pyramids will look just like

359
00:22:54,400 --> 00:22:55,900
Hills.
Exactly.

360
00:22:56,500 --> 00:22:59,100
Exactly.
So they conducted this first

361
00:22:59,100 --> 00:23:03,000
large-scale in the middle Basin
of northern Guatemala, which is

362
00:23:03,000 --> 00:23:06,600
on the border of southern
Mexico, the surveyed area is

363
00:23:06,600 --> 00:23:12,100
less than half the size of Utah
County, to give us an idea.

364
00:23:12,900 --> 00:23:16,700
And I remember watching this on
the National Geographic special

365
00:23:16,700 --> 00:23:20,100
and they have these three
expert, mine, archaeologists.

366
00:23:21,000 --> 00:23:24,600
Who are and they did it for a
shock effect.

367
00:23:25,100 --> 00:23:28,900
They had these giant screen TVs,
the size of a wall.

368
00:23:29,300 --> 00:23:31,500
And there were flashing these
latter images in front of these

369
00:23:31,500 --> 00:23:35,700
archaeologists for the first
time, and they were speechless

370
00:23:36,800 --> 00:23:42,200
speechless at what they saw,
they could not believe it word

371
00:23:42,200 --> 00:23:46,900
and they would say things like
this changes, everything,

372
00:23:47,600 --> 00:23:50,000
everything.
So, I'll describe what why at

373
00:23:50,000 --> 00:23:50,800
any rate?
Great.

374
00:23:53,900 --> 00:24:01,300
The Book of Mormon.
In Isaiah 27:6 and the people

375
00:24:01,300 --> 00:24:05,100
began to be very numerous and
began to scatter abroad upon the

376
00:24:05,100 --> 00:24:11,800
face of the Earth.
And it goes on the whole face of

377
00:24:11,800 --> 00:24:15,500
the land had become covered with
buildings according to the Book

378
00:24:15,500 --> 00:24:19,900
of Mormon, again, mosiah 27, and
the people were as numerous

379
00:24:19,900 --> 00:24:23,000
almost as it were, the sand of
the sea.

380
00:24:23,200 --> 00:24:28,900
That's from Mormon 1:7.
How many people is that

381
00:24:29,600 --> 00:24:31,400
Millions, right?
Yeah.

382
00:24:33,500 --> 00:24:36,300
What they discovered in the
Mirador Basin where they were

383
00:24:36,500 --> 00:24:40,500
they the the Central Plaza, they
had excavated and cleared and

384
00:24:40,500 --> 00:24:43,400
they were estimating, the
population of the region to be

385
00:24:43,800 --> 00:24:48,200
in the tens of thousands.
What lidar showed them?

386
00:24:58,300 --> 00:25:12,900
where, Where'd that go?
60,000 60,000 new buildings,

387
00:25:13,200 --> 00:25:17,700
60,000 structures buildings that
they had no idea where their

388
00:25:18,300 --> 00:25:21,200
we're talking, massive suburbs
to that Central Plaza.

389
00:25:21,800 --> 00:25:26,300
Wow, leading the experts to new
population estimates as high as

390
00:25:26,300 --> 00:25:34,000
15 to 20 million. 15 to 20
million people in the lowland

391
00:25:34,000 --> 00:25:44,700
Maya, during the classic period
and reference. for the years for

392
00:25:44,708 --> 00:25:54,900
that go, The classic period
would be around a.d. 252. 8600.

393
00:25:55,900 --> 00:26:00,500
which is the line with the end
of the nephite civilization, and

394
00:26:00,500 --> 00:26:05,800
the nephite civilization was
only a small part What was their

395
00:26:06,100 --> 00:26:08,900
claim in that populations?
And at the pre-existent

396
00:26:08,900 --> 00:26:11,500
populations that were there
before Lehi and his family ever

397
00:26:11,500 --> 00:26:13,200
got there.
Right?

398
00:26:13,500 --> 00:26:21,400
Which were you know, we I could
only think of the Olmec the

399
00:26:21,400 --> 00:26:25,000
Jared i'ts, right?
They dared i'ts arrived, the

400
00:26:25,000 --> 00:26:27,600
Millennia and a half before
Leah.

401
00:26:27,600 --> 00:26:30,700
They've been there thousands of
years, right?

402
00:26:31,400 --> 00:26:35,300
And they probably sped spread
throughout the entire American

403
00:26:35,300 --> 00:26:37,900
continent, North and South,
right?

404
00:26:38,100 --> 00:26:40,900
So yeah, lots and lots and lots
of people.

405
00:26:41,800 --> 00:26:44,200
Now, the other thing I
discovered not well and it

406
00:26:44,200 --> 00:26:48,900
caused them to say during that
period of time in history it is

407
00:26:48,900 --> 00:26:52,200
now Culated that.
That area was the largest city

408
00:26:52,200 --> 00:26:58,700
on the planet in the new world,
you believe that. so, the other

409
00:26:58,700 --> 00:27:03,000
thing they discovered The Book
of Mormon says that Moroni had

410
00:27:03,000 --> 00:27:07,700
fortified or built forts for of
security for every city in all

411
00:27:07,700 --> 00:27:11,800
the land roundabouts.
Alma 49?

412
00:27:12,200 --> 00:27:15,600
And the lamanites are at war
with one another and the whole

413
00:27:15,600 --> 00:27:18,800
face of this land is one
continual round of murder and

414
00:27:18,800 --> 00:27:21,700
bloodshed.
That's Norman 8.

415
00:27:21,800 --> 00:27:25,300
And this is what they found
researchers were particularly

416
00:27:25,300 --> 00:27:29,500
surprised by the ubiquity of
defensive walls.

417
00:27:29,900 --> 00:27:35,200
Ramparts Terraces and fortresses
everywhere leading to a

418
00:27:35,208 --> 00:27:39,500
surprising insights into the
militarisation in the Maya.

419
00:27:40,000 --> 00:27:42,400
Lance, hmm.
Impressive.

420
00:27:42,400 --> 00:27:44,400
Chronological correlation
between widespread

421
00:27:44,400 --> 00:27:46,100
fortifications, the Maya
lowlands.

422
00:27:46,400 --> 00:27:50,500
And the Book of Mormon endemic
Warfare over centuries was the

423
00:27:50,500 --> 00:27:54,100
norm and warfare was
particularly prevalent in the

424
00:27:54,100 --> 00:27:58,300
early classic ad 250 and 500.
Yeah, right.

425
00:27:58,300 --> 00:28:00,700
Interesting type rate consistent
with the timing of the final

426
00:28:00,700 --> 00:28:03,600
words, the Nephites and
continued Warfare thereafter,

427
00:28:03,600 --> 00:28:09,900
when the lamanites Brett Gardner
LDS scholar pointed.

428
00:28:10,000 --> 00:28:14,400
Doubt that I can remember
teotihuacan was trying to create

429
00:28:14,900 --> 00:28:19,900
trade routes with the, with the
Maya, the Yucatan.

430
00:28:21,500 --> 00:28:24,400
And who was right in the middle
of that will according to mace

431
00:28:24,400 --> 00:28:27,300
American Theory, the poor
Nephites and that's why they

432
00:28:27,300 --> 00:28:31,900
were run down because they were
in the way of this Native

433
00:28:31,900 --> 00:28:37,400
American Trade route, you know?
And we've we've discovered now

434
00:28:37,400 --> 00:28:43,200
that There is copper, that was
found down in South America,

435
00:28:43,600 --> 00:28:48,400
that was mined up by the Great
Lakes area, right?

436
00:28:48,400 --> 00:28:52,100
So, yeah, I have this massive
trading Network that's going on.

437
00:28:52,500 --> 00:28:58,800
These are not These are not
people who as you know, 19th

438
00:28:58,800 --> 00:29:03,500
century America would would have
you believe are savages, right?

439
00:29:03,500 --> 00:29:06,200
These are people, that's all
they knew, right?

440
00:29:06,200 --> 00:29:06,900
Right.
Right.

441
00:29:06,900 --> 00:29:11,000
When that's when the colonists
got here, while all, they knew

442
00:29:11,000 --> 00:29:15,100
were the Northern Plains Native,
American tribes, which were not

443
00:29:15,100 --> 00:29:17,400
Advanced when they got here,
right?

444
00:29:17,500 --> 00:29:22,000
So the concept of metal plates,
submit trade routes, highways

445
00:29:22,000 --> 00:29:26,100
temples was laughable.
Right, we need to underscore.

446
00:29:26,100 --> 00:29:28,000
That was laughable at Joseph,
Smith's time.

447
00:29:28,300 --> 00:29:29,700
Yep.
Yep.

448
00:29:29,700 --> 00:29:33,000
It's absolutely.
The third thing that is founded.

449
00:29:34,200 --> 00:29:35,800
The Book of Mormon and 3rd Nephi
6.

450
00:29:35,800 --> 00:29:39,700
It says, and there were many
highways cast up and many roads,

451
00:29:39,700 --> 00:29:43,900
made highways Native Americans,
were not building highways,

452
00:29:43,900 --> 00:29:46,700
right?
These 3D scans, the lidar scans

453
00:29:46,700 --> 00:29:50,100
revealed sophisticated Mayan
infrastructure, at a

454
00:29:50,100 --> 00:29:54,200
never-before-seen level, the
Mesoamerican, jungle now reveals

455
00:29:54,200 --> 00:29:59,700
a fast network of Highways and
Roads elevated so that they

456
00:29:59,700 --> 00:30:03,300
functioned, even in the rainy
season, highways cast up.

457
00:30:03,400 --> 00:30:06,100
But we now know that the Maya
had a well-developed

458
00:30:06,100 --> 00:30:08,300
infrastructure that provided
public works.

459
00:30:08,300 --> 00:30:12,000
Such as dams, ditches irrigation
systems reservoirs and stone

460
00:30:12,000 --> 00:30:15,700
quarries, Mormon, similarly
describes the construction of

461
00:30:15,700 --> 00:30:19,700
Highways and Roads systems and
other public works such as dikes

462
00:30:19,700 --> 00:30:23,000
and irrigation systems and
stonemasonry, amazing.

463
00:30:23,600 --> 00:30:27,200
Absolutely all confirmed.
Well then and then course and

464
00:30:27,200 --> 00:30:30,300
then book of arm talks about
flocks and herds and all of this

465
00:30:30,300 --> 00:30:33,300
irrigation, you didn't see that
amongst the players.

466
00:30:33,500 --> 00:30:38,900
And Native Americans, you didn't
see that Alma 129 and abundance

467
00:30:38,900 --> 00:30:42,300
of flocks and herds and fatlings
of every kind, Helaman 6.

468
00:30:42,300 --> 00:30:44,200
They did raised grain and great
abundance.

469
00:30:44,700 --> 00:30:49,200
They did raise many flocks and
herds and many fat fatlings, the

470
00:30:49,200 --> 00:30:54,500
lidar technology has uncovered,
the remains of animal pins and

471
00:30:54,500 --> 00:30:56,900
reveals.
That food production was at an

472
00:30:56,900 --> 00:31:00,400
industrial.
Scale, could you imagine to feed

473
00:31:00,400 --> 00:31:03,300
15 to 20 million people?
There weren't others they were

474
00:31:03,400 --> 00:31:05,200
Hunters and gatherers, they were
growing.

475
00:31:06,400 --> 00:31:09,400
So the Book of Mormon, similarly
talks about the vast production

476
00:31:09,400 --> 00:31:10,700
food, and domestication of
animals.

477
00:31:11,000 --> 00:31:16,300
So, all of this that we've just
discussed with synths 2018, just

478
00:31:16,300 --> 00:31:18,800
last week, they did another
lidar survey for the bottom

479
00:31:18,800 --> 00:31:24,200
Allah, same exact findings.
Untold on previously, unknown

480
00:31:24,300 --> 00:31:27,700
structures.
Showing a far greater

481
00:31:27,700 --> 00:31:30,300
civilization than they had ever
before imagined.

482
00:31:30,900 --> 00:31:33,000
And I imagine it will continue
every time they Point their

483
00:31:33,000 --> 00:31:35,300
lidar someplace else.
Be the same thing.

484
00:31:35,900 --> 00:31:37,800
Amazing.
Yeah.

485
00:31:37,800 --> 00:31:46,100
And for some reason is people we
want to be able to wrap up

486
00:31:46,100 --> 00:31:50,600
history in in 10 minutes, right?
We want to be able to say we've

487
00:31:50,600 --> 00:31:53,700
seen everything.
There is to see we've come up

488
00:31:53,700 --> 00:31:58,500
with our conclusions, and this
is What it is and unfortunately

489
00:31:58,500 --> 00:32:01,000
that's just not the way history
works right?

490
00:32:01,000 --> 00:32:05,400
I mean every day things are
overturned or should be

491
00:32:05,400 --> 00:32:10,300
overturned but getting getting
that to happen that seems to be

492
00:32:10,300 --> 00:32:13,000
the issue.
So let me ask you this in any of

493
00:32:13,008 --> 00:32:17,300
those cities down there.
Have they discovered anything

494
00:32:17,300 --> 00:32:26,800
that could be uniquely?
Pinpointed back to gospel use,

495
00:32:26,800 --> 00:32:28,800
if you will temples that sort of
thing.

496
00:32:29,100 --> 00:32:35,000
Well, yeah, let's talk about
out.

497
00:32:35,000 --> 00:32:44,300
Well, here's win in the Book of
Mormon. in the Jacob 5, is the

498
00:32:44,300 --> 00:32:48,500
Zenus allegory of the Olive
Tree, which goes on and on, and

499
00:32:48,500 --> 00:32:55,100
on, and talks at length about
all of culture, Which no one in

500
00:32:55,100 --> 00:32:57,900
Joseph, Smith's circle of
friends and had any knowledge

501
00:32:57,900 --> 00:32:59,300
of.
I mean, no one in the new world

502
00:32:59,300 --> 00:33:02,200
was growing all of groves,
right?

503
00:33:02,400 --> 00:33:06,100
And what we discover is what he
was describing and how they

504
00:33:06,100 --> 00:33:08,400
tended their Olive Groves and
how they cared for them.

505
00:33:08,400 --> 00:33:14,400
Improve them is exactly right.
I'm ready possibly known of all

506
00:33:14,400 --> 00:33:17,500
of culture but okay that's not
something made down.

507
00:33:17,500 --> 00:33:18,700
That was not answering your
question.

508
00:33:20,600 --> 00:33:23,000
Ancient American consumption of
alcohol.

509
00:33:23,800 --> 00:33:26,900
It talks about the lamanites
getting drunk, right?

510
00:33:26,900 --> 00:33:30,300
And everybody laughed at that.
There didn't have any well call,

511
00:33:30,300 --> 00:33:33,800
that is not true.
They had all forms of alcohol

512
00:33:33,800 --> 00:33:40,200
including wine and grapes.
We now discover Ancient American

513
00:33:40,200 --> 00:33:43,700
monetary systems.
They talk about currency.

514
00:33:43,700 --> 00:33:45,900
They had a currency that weights
and measures.

515
00:33:46,300 --> 00:33:48,600
We need to be very careful
because the Book of Mormon never

516
00:33:48,600 --> 00:33:53,300
says points, right?
Because of our present ISM and

517
00:33:53,300 --> 00:33:55,900
where we're coming from were
expecting nickels and dimes.

518
00:33:57,000 --> 00:33:59,900
But they had metal money, some
in the form of ax in the shape

519
00:33:59,900 --> 00:34:04,400
of axes and things like that.
But they did have that in meso

520
00:34:04,400 --> 00:34:06,600
America, there's clearly
identified.

521
00:34:10,699 --> 00:34:15,000
So yeah, and temples Towers, all
that.

522
00:34:15,000 --> 00:34:20,199
Sort of let me go here, I've
looked at some of those scans

523
00:34:20,199 --> 00:34:25,000
and the thing that keeps popping
back out to me is you can tell

524
00:34:25,000 --> 00:34:29,300
that and a lot of the time when
those were constructed, those

525
00:34:29,300 --> 00:34:35,500
people were at War Yep, those
people were at War, whoever was

526
00:34:36,500 --> 00:34:38,100
constructing.
No cities.

527
00:34:40,199 --> 00:34:44,100
War and fortifications were
Forefront in their mind.

528
00:34:44,300 --> 00:34:48,300
And all you need to do is look
at the alma chapters where it

529
00:34:48,300 --> 00:34:51,900
talks about building up, you
know, fortifications and they

530
00:34:51,900 --> 00:34:55,100
talk about continuous Warfare.
Yep, exactly.

531
00:34:55,100 --> 00:34:56,600
I don't know why we should be
surprised.

532
00:34:56,600 --> 00:34:59,000
The old world is full of.
I mean just look at the Old

533
00:34:59,000 --> 00:35:01,900
Testament.
Can you imagine one neighboring

534
00:35:01,900 --> 00:35:03,800
City over running?
Another just because they want

535
00:35:03,800 --> 00:35:06,900
their stuff, or because they
desperately need it, because

536
00:35:06,900 --> 00:35:09,300
they're starving.
I mean, we don't comprehend

537
00:35:09,400 --> 00:35:11,600
that.
No, no.

538
00:35:11,600 --> 00:35:14,400
Our biggest crisis is when our
cell phone doesn't charge.

539
00:35:14,500 --> 00:35:16,100
Exactly.
Exactly.

540
00:35:18,500 --> 00:35:24,400
So barley, The Book of Mormon
mentions that they had barley

541
00:35:24,400 --> 00:35:26,400
and that they were cultivating
barley.

542
00:35:26,800 --> 00:35:29,100
Everybody knows that's not
native to do, you know?

543
00:35:29,200 --> 00:35:30,600
And it's not that it doesn't
grow wild.

544
00:35:30,600 --> 00:35:32,600
It has to be cultivated.
Well guess what?

545
00:35:32,900 --> 00:35:36,300
We've discovered that there was
barley in those ancient

546
00:35:36,300 --> 00:35:41,900
cultures.
So so let me ask you this, have

547
00:35:41,900 --> 00:35:46,000
we seen where about the time
period that barley was

548
00:35:46,000 --> 00:35:53,100
introduced to the region?
Because that, that would be kind

549
00:35:53,100 --> 00:35:56,200
of a Smoking Gun, right?
I mean, if barley is introduced

550
00:35:56,200 --> 00:36:02,200
about the time that the Nephites
are theoretically showing up in

551
00:36:02,200 --> 00:36:06,500
all this, I don't think all of
this stuff coincides with the

552
00:36:07,500 --> 00:36:12,800
entire era 600 BC to 400 ad.
It's all there that classic the

553
00:36:13,100 --> 00:36:15,600
classic my period.
That's when all of this is

554
00:36:15,600 --> 00:36:18,700
happening, it's an all-day
activity is really going up.

555
00:36:20,300 --> 00:36:23,500
Its going to look up The Barley
link here.

556
00:36:30,500 --> 00:36:37,500
I'll read it to you.
There are actually three Tate,

557
00:36:37,500 --> 00:36:42,200
three types of wild, barley
native to the Americas, it

558
00:36:42,200 --> 00:36:46,800
wasn't until 1983, that they
first uncovered, a domesticated

559
00:36:46,800 --> 00:36:51,300
form of barley, native to the
Americas, in Arizona, in a

560
00:36:51,300 --> 00:36:59,900
pre-columbian context, 8900,
little barley, It has since been

561
00:36:59,900 --> 00:37:03,200
found throughout the Mississippi
River Valley where it was a

562
00:37:03,200 --> 00:37:08,300
major staple during the middle
ad 280 500.

563
00:37:11,400 --> 00:37:17,800
It has also been found dating to
his early as 800 BC in Iowa go.

564
00:37:17,800 --> 00:37:27,700
Heart Landers right. so that's
extraordinary that that's one of

565
00:37:27,700 --> 00:37:35,100
those things where like you want
to say It doesn't she?

566
00:37:35,300 --> 00:37:40,100
And keep in mind, I mean, carbon
dating isn't exactly exact all

567
00:37:40,100 --> 00:37:41,900
the time, right?
I know that there's some

568
00:37:41,900 --> 00:37:46,500
fluctuation there, share.
So if you say between 680 BC and

569
00:37:46,500 --> 00:37:52,700
400 ad, and you're coming up
with 200 years later, that in a

570
00:37:52,707 --> 00:37:57,200
lot of times is well within that
range of error 200 years.

571
00:37:57,500 --> 00:38:00,400
Yep.
And so if you can't find any

572
00:38:00,600 --> 00:38:04,800
barley older than that and then
all of a sudden, Didn't you got

573
00:38:04,800 --> 00:38:08,800
it?
From down in Central America, to

574
00:38:08,800 --> 00:38:14,000
Arizona to the Mississippi, you
know, Valley.

575
00:38:15,000 --> 00:38:18,600
That's that's a that's a huge
piece of circumstantial

576
00:38:18,600 --> 00:38:20,000
evidence.
Oh yeah.

577
00:38:20,000 --> 00:38:22,100
Well and all of this is
circumstantial.

578
00:38:22,400 --> 00:38:25,200
I mean, welcome to the world of
history and people get upset.

579
00:38:25,200 --> 00:38:27,900
Well, those just circumstance,
that's not evidence and The

580
00:38:27,900 --> 00:38:31,400
Smoking Gun is circumstantial
evidence, right?

581
00:38:31,600 --> 00:38:34,800
What are people looking for
Nephi was here, kind of a thing

582
00:38:35,500 --> 00:38:40,500
and it's It's an unfair and kind
of an ignorant thing to expect

583
00:38:40,500 --> 00:38:44,700
that particularly in
mesoamerica, those tropical

584
00:38:44,700 --> 00:38:51,400
humid climates, organic remains
Highland a mountainous areas.

585
00:38:51,400 --> 00:38:54,700
Undergo erosion, decreasing, the
chance of remains being

586
00:38:54,700 --> 00:38:56,900
preserved in the meso.
America consists of many

587
00:38:56,900 --> 00:38:59,700
Highland areas.
Additionally, the area is mostly

588
00:38:59,700 --> 00:39:03,200
humid, especially in its
Southern extent with subtropical

589
00:39:03,200 --> 00:39:07,000
to Tropical conditions in this
area such as This animal and

590
00:39:07,000 --> 00:39:09,700
plant remains quickly decompose
and are destroyed without

591
00:39:09,700 --> 00:39:12,700
leaving a trace.
Even if an organism is buried

592
00:39:12,700 --> 00:39:16,000
before it decomposes the
commonly acidic soils continue

593
00:39:16,000 --> 00:39:19,400
the Raptor process of
decomposition also the generally

594
00:39:19,400 --> 00:39:23,000
abundant vegetation in such a
region, very limited areas of

595
00:39:23,000 --> 00:39:25,300
exposed ground is just for bones
or teeth might be observed

596
00:39:25,700 --> 00:39:28,700
because of this combination of
factors a significant record of

597
00:39:28,700 --> 00:39:32,400
past life and meso America.
We very difficult to uncover as

598
00:39:32,400 --> 00:39:34,800
archaeologists as well.
As paleontologists have

599
00:39:34,800 --> 00:39:37,900
discovered, most animal remains
AIDS are not preserved and are

600
00:39:37,900 --> 00:39:40,500
lost for all time.
Animal / human remains.

601
00:39:40,500 --> 00:39:44,700
So it's why are we not finding
the barley, a meso America who

602
00:39:45,200 --> 00:39:49,200
its decomposed at this point and
you bring up a valid point as a

603
00:39:49,200 --> 00:39:52,000
guy who was made his living
outside?

604
00:39:52,400 --> 00:39:57,100
Yeah the bulk of my career in
very in a lot of different

605
00:39:57,100 --> 00:39:59,200
climates.
I've been, I've surveyed in

606
00:39:59,200 --> 00:40:01,300
Florida.
I've surveyed on the east coast

607
00:40:01,300 --> 00:40:05,700
of the United States.
I've surveyed out west There is

608
00:40:05,700 --> 00:40:09,900
a different rate at which things
decompose it in West versus the,

609
00:40:09,900 --> 00:40:11,900
the the East, right?
Yeah.

610
00:40:12,000 --> 00:40:13,000
Oh yeah.
West.

611
00:40:13,000 --> 00:40:15,600
I mean, it's not uncommon.
You're out there may be doing a

612
00:40:15,607 --> 00:40:20,200
survey for a Rancher and you you
will see a cow that's been dead

613
00:40:20,200 --> 00:40:23,300
for a year or better.
That still has the hide on it.

614
00:40:24,200 --> 00:40:27,700
Yeah I'm not all the height but
in the Bones have been bleached

615
00:40:27,700 --> 00:40:31,400
a little bit but if something
like that happens in a high

616
00:40:31,400 --> 00:40:35,200
humidity climate, if an animal
dies it will decompose As the

617
00:40:35,200 --> 00:40:38,900
bones yeah, quickly.
Oh yeah, they don't just hang

618
00:40:38,900 --> 00:40:41,400
out.
I mean, you think of that the

619
00:40:41,400 --> 00:40:46,000
Mirador Basin lidar?
I mean there were as many as 20

620
00:40:46,400 --> 00:40:50,200
million people there where all
the bones they're gone.

621
00:40:50,500 --> 00:40:55,000
They're gone, Millions gone, so
it's an unfair expectation.

622
00:40:55,000 --> 00:40:57,200
Kind of an ignorant expectation,
we should be fighting those

623
00:40:57,200 --> 00:41:07,300
types of evidences in such
climate but Metallurgy, we talk

624
00:41:07,300 --> 00:41:11,700
about the gold plates and people
make a straw man argument

625
00:41:11,700 --> 00:41:13,300
saying.
Well, if the gold plates were

626
00:41:13,300 --> 00:41:16,100
gold, it would have been too
heavy for a single person to

627
00:41:16,100 --> 00:41:19,100
lift and Sandra Tanner's Museum,
and Salt Lake City.

628
00:41:19,100 --> 00:41:23,300
She has something about the size
of the Book of Mormon made out

629
00:41:23,300 --> 00:41:25,200
of lead.
So people can see how impossible

630
00:41:25,200 --> 00:41:27,600
that is.
The strawman argument is that

631
00:41:27,600 --> 00:41:32,500
they were made of 14-karat gold.
Which no one ever claimed.

632
00:41:33,300 --> 00:41:35,600
They had the appearance of gold
14 karat.

633
00:41:35,600 --> 00:41:37,300
Gold is too heavy and it's too
soft.

634
00:41:37,300 --> 00:41:40,500
It wouldn't have worked, what
has been discovered in

635
00:41:40,500 --> 00:41:45,200
mesoamerica in abundance?
Is a, what is now referred to as

636
00:41:45,200 --> 00:41:51,100
Tom Baga, which is a gold copper
alloy, which has the appearance

637
00:41:51,100 --> 00:41:55,100
of gold, but is much lighter and
is much stiffer and

638
00:41:55,100 --> 00:41:59,400
significantly lighter.
Wow, it would make sense that.

639
00:41:59,400 --> 00:42:02,400
I mean, The Nephites if they
were real.

640
00:42:02,400 --> 00:42:05,000
I mean, they're not stupid.
They got to make their not going

641
00:42:05,000 --> 00:42:06,700
to make records out of things.
You can't happen.

642
00:42:06,700 --> 00:42:08,400
They're gonna crumble if you
drop them off.

643
00:42:09,200 --> 00:42:14,700
So the thinking is, yeah, I mean
they did have significant

644
00:42:14,700 --> 00:42:17,500
knowledge of metallurgy.
Among other things.

645
00:42:17,500 --> 00:42:25,700
So, one of my other favorites is
Cement that's mentioned in the

646
00:42:25,707 --> 00:42:33,100
Book of Mormon.
Because everybody knows the

647
00:42:33,100 --> 00:42:35,100
Native Americans were building
this cement.

648
00:42:35,100 --> 00:42:38,200
They were living in deep.
He's right submit that's

649
00:42:38,200 --> 00:42:43,800
ridiculous.
In the mid first century BC,

650
00:42:44,100 --> 00:42:47,200
Mormon reported that some
nephite dissenters did travel

651
00:42:47,600 --> 00:42:49,900
into the land northward for they
found large bodies of water.

652
00:42:49,900 --> 00:42:53,700
Many rivers Helaman chapter 3
but there was Little Timber.

653
00:42:53,800 --> 00:42:57,800
So they became exceedingly
expert in the working of cement

654
00:42:58,000 --> 00:43:01,700
and built houses out of cement
and even built many.

655
00:43:01,800 --> 00:43:04,900
Any cities both of wood and of
cement.

656
00:43:05,500 --> 00:43:08,800
And, of course, people laughed
at the Book of Mormon, and it

657
00:43:08,800 --> 00:43:10,800
Joseph Smith for making such
claims.

658
00:43:12,000 --> 00:43:15,700
However, according to Mayan
experts, Michael Co Stephen

659
00:43:15,700 --> 00:43:18,700
Houston, non-lds.
In fact, Michael Cole has some

660
00:43:18,700 --> 00:43:22,800
anti aldea Street to him.
It was not until the late

661
00:43:22,900 --> 00:43:28,800
pre-classic period 300 BC to ad
2250 that the Maya quickly

662
00:43:28,800 --> 00:43:31,700
realized the structural value of
8.

663
00:43:31,800 --> 00:43:36,500
Concrete, like Phil made, from
Limestone rubble and lime, Rich

664
00:43:36,500 --> 00:43:42,600
mud, this led to an explosion of
activity around 100 BC, what?

665
00:43:43,600 --> 00:43:47,100
That's exactly right.
What Mormon was talking about?

666
00:43:48,200 --> 00:43:51,400
And one area for the cement was
used extensively was in the city

667
00:43:51,400 --> 00:43:55,500
of teotihuacán, in central
Mexico, which some Book of

668
00:43:55,500 --> 00:43:58,200
Mormon Scholars, consider to be
the land northward.

669
00:43:59,200 --> 00:44:02,900
Wow.
So that's crazy.

670
00:44:04,500 --> 00:44:07,200
All right, but I do, you know
what probably the greatest

671
00:44:08,600 --> 00:44:12,800
Mesoamerican, bold side.
We could spend a lot of time on

672
00:44:12,800 --> 00:44:23,200
this, but in the Book of Mormon,
when, when we come to 3rd Nephi

673
00:44:23,400 --> 00:44:27,800
after the great destructions in
the ER, 30A d, The voice of the

674
00:44:27,800 --> 00:44:33,200
Lord tells the people about the
cities that were destroyed and

675
00:44:33,200 --> 00:44:36,700
how they were destroyed.
And he mentioned 17 cities, and

676
00:44:36,700 --> 00:44:39,400
specifically how they were
destroyed.

677
00:44:40,300 --> 00:44:43,900
One city and particular
Jerusalem, which is located.

678
00:44:43,900 --> 00:44:47,400
The Book of Mormon tells us on
the shores of the Waters of

679
00:44:47,400 --> 00:44:52,400
Mormon was sunken was swallowed
up by the waters.

680
00:44:54,700 --> 00:45:00,200
Hey, Those who commit to this,
John Sorensen model makes

681
00:45:00,200 --> 00:45:04,700
America model believe that the
Waters of Mormon is Lake atitlan

682
00:45:05,500 --> 00:45:07,400
in northern Guatemala.
Okay?

683
00:45:09,700 --> 00:45:15,800
50 feet below the waves of lake
atitlan is an ancient Mayan

684
00:45:15,800 --> 00:45:19,000
city.
It was submerged about that

685
00:45:19,000 --> 00:45:21,500
time.
Wow.

686
00:45:24,200 --> 00:45:28,000
Again it's one thing if it was
one, right?

687
00:45:28,100 --> 00:45:30,700
If Joseph Smith got lucky on
one.

688
00:45:31,300 --> 00:45:34,900
Exactly.
If you got lucky on to, you got

689
00:45:34,900 --> 00:45:39,100
lucky, I'm three.
But when you start approaching

690
00:45:40,400 --> 00:45:43,700
As you pointed out earlier,
those 60 things that

691
00:45:43,700 --> 00:45:46,400
archaeologists thought you could
find in your approaching 90

692
00:45:46,400 --> 00:45:50,500
percent, he's a pretty good
guesser, right?

693
00:45:50,500 --> 00:45:54,200
At that point you got to start
saying maybe he wasn't guessing,

694
00:45:54,500 --> 00:45:58,200
maybe that's not the point where
my skeptical mind finally gives

695
00:45:58,200 --> 00:46:01,200
up right and says, oh my
goodness.

696
00:46:01,200 --> 00:46:05,900
He He was telling the truth.
I mean, what are my favorite

697
00:46:05,900 --> 00:46:10,600
ones is elephants?
That was the most laughable

698
00:46:10,900 --> 00:46:13,300
thing of all.
Everybody knows.

699
00:46:13,800 --> 00:46:17,700
There aren't any elephants in
the Americas, Joseph Smith, you

700
00:46:17,700 --> 00:46:21,200
idiot.
We now know that there

701
00:46:21,200 --> 00:46:26,400
absolutely were elephants a
mastodon of some sort.

702
00:46:27,500 --> 00:46:31,800
That existed in the 1950s, an
article published in the

703
00:46:31,800 --> 00:46:34,400
Scientific American.
I got a quote that is because

704
00:46:34,400 --> 00:46:38,100
it's pretty cool.
Here we go.

705
00:46:47,800 --> 00:46:51,200
Loved will Johnson in an article
entitled man and elephants in

706
00:46:51,200 --> 00:46:53,400
America.
Published in scientific monthly

707
00:46:53,900 --> 00:46:57,500
wrote that quote, discoveries of
associations of human and

708
00:46:57,500 --> 00:47:00,800
elephantine remains are by no
means uncommon.

709
00:47:01,900 --> 00:47:07,000
As of 1950 Macau enlisted, no
less than 27 such items

710
00:47:07,400 --> 00:47:11,800
including a partly burned,
Mastodon skeleton and numerous

711
00:47:11,800 --> 00:47:16,300
potsherds in Ecuador.
The offense weren't burning

712
00:47:16,300 --> 00:47:17,700
themselves with the shirts,
right?

713
00:47:17,700 --> 00:47:20,600
No, no, no.
He goes on to explain that.

714
00:47:20,600 --> 00:47:25,500
There can no longer be any doubt
that man, and elephant coexisted

715
00:47:25,500 --> 00:47:29,400
in America, it is safe to say
that American elephants have

716
00:47:29,400 --> 00:47:34,200
been extinct for a minimum of
3,000 years.

717
00:47:35,700 --> 00:47:39,300
You go back. 3,000 years from
1950. 256.

718
00:47:39,300 --> 00:47:41,600
I don't remember.
Guess what?

719
00:47:41,600 --> 00:47:45,000
You're at the end of the year,
at the end of the Jared, I era,

720
00:47:45,600 --> 00:47:48,300
where elephants mentioned in the
book of ether.

721
00:47:50,100 --> 00:47:59,100
Ding dong.
Yeah, it'll never cease to amaze

722
00:47:59,100 --> 00:48:03,300
me that despite all the evidence
people still want to put the

723
00:48:03,300 --> 00:48:06,700
brakes on it, right?
Like oh no, that can't be right.

724
00:48:07,000 --> 00:48:09,900
Well, of course it gets.
Then you have to admit that

725
00:48:09,900 --> 00:48:14,300
those crazy varmints might be
onto something and then what

726
00:48:14,300 --> 00:48:18,100
does that mean for me and all I
mean who wants to admit that,

727
00:48:18,500 --> 00:48:19,800
right?
Especially if you don't.

728
00:48:19,900 --> 00:48:22,300
Not like being a Mormon, don't
like more of it.

729
00:48:22,300 --> 00:48:24,200
You have something against them.
You don't want.

730
00:48:24,800 --> 00:48:28,500
You don't want that.
Sure, sure, yeah, no.

731
00:48:28,800 --> 00:48:33,800
But there's this feeling that if
or at least for me, right?

732
00:48:33,800 --> 00:48:39,000
There's this feeling that, if
you start looking At.

733
00:48:40,300 --> 00:48:45,400
At the evidence, unbiased lie.
If you just say okay what what

734
00:48:45,400 --> 00:48:48,300
does what's the statistical
probability?

735
00:48:50,000 --> 00:48:51,300
That all those things were
there.

736
00:48:54,900 --> 00:48:58,400
Just math tells you this isn't a
coincidence.

737
00:48:58,400 --> 00:49:02,300
This is a pattern.
That study has actually been

738
00:49:02,300 --> 00:49:05,100
done.
That are a couple of academics,

739
00:49:05,100 --> 00:49:08,300
I think in Michigan, I don't
recall precisely, this is quite

740
00:49:08,300 --> 00:49:11,800
recent.
It is statistical analysis of

741
00:49:11,800 --> 00:49:16,700
the corollaries between Michael
Co who's one of the world's

742
00:49:16,700 --> 00:49:20,900
foremost, my and experts and he
wrote the book, its kind of the

743
00:49:20,900 --> 00:49:25,500
Bible on the Maya on the
corollaries between that and the

744
00:49:25,500 --> 00:49:27,700
archaeological details in the
Book of Mormon.

745
00:49:28,900 --> 00:49:31,800
And the corollaries are
statistically impossible.

746
00:49:32,300 --> 00:49:34,400
Wow.
Wow.

747
00:49:34,700 --> 00:49:37,600
So that's all the art.
Is that all the archaeological

748
00:49:37,600 --> 00:49:42,300
stuff by no means is that all
your stuff.

749
00:49:42,300 --> 00:49:46,300
But problem you really love,
let's move on because we've had,

750
00:49:46,300 --> 00:49:50,500
we've had some big ones, I mean,
cement in the time and the place

751
00:49:50,500 --> 00:49:52,900
at supposed to elephants where
they're supposed to.

752
00:49:52,900 --> 00:49:56,200
I mean, those are and what kills
me again, you go on Wikipedia,

753
00:49:56,200 --> 00:49:59,400
you look up Book of Mormon
anachronisms, you'll find all

754
00:49:59,400 --> 00:50:05,100
these things still listed.
Despite the recent evidence has

755
00:50:05,300 --> 00:50:07,400
been.
So they're just either in denial

756
00:50:07,400 --> 00:50:09,200
or they just are too lazy to
change.

757
00:50:09,200 --> 00:50:12,100
I don't it.
That's the frustrating thing

758
00:50:12,100 --> 00:50:15,400
about these discussions is the
people they just they either

759
00:50:15,400 --> 00:50:19,400
quit the discussion or call you
names and say, you're hopelessly

760
00:50:19,400 --> 00:50:21,200
biased.
On my responses.

761
00:50:21,200 --> 00:50:23,700
Who's hopelessly biased here?
You know?

762
00:50:23,700 --> 00:50:26,000
Yeah, you were looking at
evidence, right?

763
00:50:26,000 --> 00:50:31,000
We're looking and saying okay,
if Joseph said all those things

764
00:50:31,100 --> 00:50:34,500
These are supposed to be there.
They will ya.

765
00:50:35,000 --> 00:50:37,000
We should find, they are we find
them.

766
00:50:37,400 --> 00:50:41,900
You have to count it as evidence
for Joseph's claims and the

767
00:50:41,908 --> 00:50:43,800
historicity of the Book of
Mormon.

768
00:50:44,700 --> 00:50:47,500
Let's talk about a just a couple
of other archaeological things

769
00:50:47,500 --> 00:50:52,900
while we're on there.
Of course, he was roundly,

770
00:50:52,900 --> 00:50:56,500
criticized for saying, that
ancient Americans wrote on metal

771
00:50:56,500 --> 00:51:00,200
plates.
They didn't have any metal and

772
00:51:00,200 --> 00:51:03,200
nobody, the agent world would
waste their precious metals to

773
00:51:03,500 --> 00:51:06,400
Right on that's just stupid
right?

774
00:51:06,900 --> 00:51:11,300
And lo and behold they have
found all over the old world.

775
00:51:12,300 --> 00:51:15,700
And some of the new world
writing on metal.

776
00:51:16,200 --> 00:51:21,000
I don't know if you've seen this
Photograph, I have.

777
00:51:21,000 --> 00:51:22,400
Yep, if I have seen that.
Yep.

778
00:51:22,400 --> 00:51:24,900
Now you look at that and you
think then the Mormons going to

779
00:51:24,908 --> 00:51:29,300
say, oh look, yeah, it's a model
of the Golden Plates and the

780
00:51:29,300 --> 00:51:32,200
stone box, right?
It's not.

781
00:51:33,400 --> 00:51:36,500
That's an actual archaeological
Discovery.

782
00:51:37,600 --> 00:51:41,300
The plates of the rious,
persepolis gold and silver

783
00:51:41,300 --> 00:51:42,500
plates.
They're called Foundation,

784
00:51:42,500 --> 00:51:44,600
please.
And it was a common thing when

785
00:51:44,700 --> 00:51:47,900
they built the palace, they have
this foundation stone and in it,

786
00:51:48,200 --> 00:51:50,000
they put these Foundation
plates.

787
00:51:50,400 --> 00:51:54,200
They were discovered in 1938 to
gold and two silver plates

788
00:51:54,700 --> 00:51:59,600
dating from 518 BC in person
where they're supposed to be

789
00:52:00,000 --> 00:52:01,900
right.
Exactly the time and the place

790
00:52:02,400 --> 00:52:06,000
and they begin with the King
Darius is Jenny ology.

791
00:52:06,700 --> 00:52:14,600
Ha ha, right?
So it now, we now know of

792
00:52:14,600 --> 00:52:17,100
numerous examples of ancient
sacred records, having we buried

793
00:52:17,100 --> 00:52:20,400
in preserve for future times,
including records written on

794
00:52:20,400 --> 00:52:23,600
metal and Records very dusty
boxes and numerous examples of

795
00:52:23,600 --> 00:52:27,000
records that were sealed.
Much like the gold plates were

796
00:52:27,000 --> 00:52:30,400
sealed in the record.
That's amazing.

797
00:52:31,000 --> 00:52:35,600
In fact, that Joseph says, you
know, under this Stone, there

798
00:52:35,600 --> 00:52:39,700
was a box, right?
Yeah.

799
00:52:39,700 --> 00:52:42,100
A concrete of own right Made of
Stone.

800
00:52:42,100 --> 00:52:45,300
Excuse me.
And inside were the plates, and

801
00:52:45,300 --> 00:52:50,600
then you go across the ocean.
And when you find the very same

802
00:52:50,600 --> 00:52:57,000
thing, the very same thing,
which shows, not only The the

803
00:52:57,000 --> 00:53:00,700
historicity of this idea of the
Ancients writing on plates,

804
00:53:01,000 --> 00:53:03,600
right?
On the service, what's that, and

805
00:53:03,600 --> 00:53:11,100
preserving them, exactly.
But The almost the very same way

806
00:53:11,100 --> 00:53:14,600
of preserving those records
within Stone boxes.

807
00:53:15,900 --> 00:53:18,400
I forgot to mention with the
plates of dries, there were also

808
00:53:18,400 --> 00:53:25,200
precious stones found with them.
And we know dries and I think

809
00:53:25,200 --> 00:53:28,500
that's interesting because we
know that Darius was was

810
00:53:28,500 --> 00:53:33,600
somewhat sympathetic to the the
Israelites, right?

811
00:53:33,600 --> 00:53:38,000
So it's not out of the realm of
possibility that he would have.

812
00:53:39,100 --> 00:53:42,900
Maybe adopted some of their
Customs or vice versa or vice

813
00:53:42,900 --> 00:53:46,100
versa right there.
When we talk about, we can talk

814
00:53:46,100 --> 00:53:49,800
about reformed Egyptian and
everybody, laughs Israelites,

815
00:53:49,800 --> 00:53:52,100
hated the Egyptians they were
using reformed Egyptian.

816
00:53:52,100 --> 00:53:55,900
Well, guess what?
They were they it's called

817
00:53:55,900 --> 00:53:58,100
hieratic, there's another form
called demotic.

818
00:53:58,100 --> 00:54:01,900
It's a jiffy short head.
They have found examples of a

819
00:54:01,900 --> 00:54:06,900
higher attic interspersed with
Hebrew symbols in Jerusalem in

820
00:54:06,900 --> 00:54:09,900
and around juice Jerusalem at
the time of Lehi.

821
00:54:10,600 --> 00:54:13,800
Well, in Oman, and not only
that, I've read a little bit

822
00:54:13,800 --> 00:54:19,300
about both of those.
Those were used in four guys who

823
00:54:19,300 --> 00:54:23,300
were essentially men who were
Merchants, right?

824
00:54:23,400 --> 00:54:27,700
He had heard that was olive oil.
Whether that was wine, whatever

825
00:54:27,700 --> 00:54:30,900
it was.
It was used because it was so

826
00:54:30,900 --> 00:54:35,300
well recognized by everybody,
it's why the world.

827
00:54:35,500 --> 00:54:39,600
Predominantly when it comes to
business, everybody speaks

828
00:54:39,600 --> 00:54:42,200
English, right?
Because what did Lee hi do for a

829
00:54:42,207 --> 00:54:46,100
living again?
You know you got a virgin.

830
00:54:46,300 --> 00:54:50,500
Yep, exactly.
And so, when you start, when you

831
00:54:50,500 --> 00:54:52,400
start adding this all up and
you're right.

832
00:54:52,400 --> 00:54:53,800
Right.
When you start talking about

833
00:54:53,800 --> 00:54:57,900
archaeology, there is very
rarely anything that you can

834
00:54:57,900 --> 00:55:02,100
look at and be like it's plain
as day, right?

835
00:55:02,200 --> 00:55:04,800
Yeah.
All of these evidences.

836
00:55:05,100 --> 00:55:08,400
It To a certain extent are
circumstantial, that's what

837
00:55:08,400 --> 00:55:10,400
makes it history, right?
Exactly.

838
00:55:12,300 --> 00:55:19,800
So, here's probably the single
greatest Smoking Gun that has a

839
00:55:19,800 --> 00:55:23,800
direct language relationship in
the Book of Mormon.

840
00:55:24,200 --> 00:55:27,600
Before I get there, I need to
preface this the problem with

841
00:55:27,600 --> 00:55:31,700
finding the words and the names
and the vocabulary of the Book

842
00:55:31,700 --> 00:55:35,800
of Mormon in ancient American
culture is because the It has

843
00:55:35,800 --> 00:55:38,800
not been there.
Has not been continuous

844
00:55:39,000 --> 00:55:42,800
habitation.
What we find amazing?

845
00:55:42,800 --> 00:55:46,300
American let's see.
I'm like the biblical lands.

846
00:55:46,300 --> 00:55:50,600
Where many toponym survived due
to a continuity of culture.

847
00:55:50,900 --> 00:55:53,800
There is no reason to assume
that my languages and me fight

848
00:55:53,800 --> 00:55:56,800
languages were related.
We don't know.

849
00:55:57,500 --> 00:56:01,200
Secondly, we find that toponyms
often disappeared from one area

850
00:56:01,200 --> 00:56:03,200
to the next.
There were these massive

851
00:56:03,200 --> 00:56:05,800
cultural interruptions and the
history of the Maya.

852
00:56:06,000 --> 00:56:09,500
And in the case of the Olmec, I
mean they just They were gone,

853
00:56:10,000 --> 00:56:12,100
right?
Can I ask a quick question here?

854
00:56:12,100 --> 00:56:13,800
And I'm here.
So, my lack of Education.

855
00:56:13,800 --> 00:56:17,900
What's top oven top and him a
name?

856
00:56:18,000 --> 00:56:20,000
Okay?
Steamer person named right.

857
00:56:20,000 --> 00:56:23,400
Okay, sorry about that, the
collapse of the indigenous

858
00:56:23,400 --> 00:56:27,100
civilizations, before the
Conquistadors created a sharp

859
00:56:27,100 --> 00:56:32,200
historical, discontinuity, we
have the names of almost, none

860
00:56:32,500 --> 00:56:36,800
of the classic mine and Olmec
cities of two Millennia ago,

861
00:56:37,100 --> 00:56:40,700
which is why they are Known
today under Spanish titles,

862
00:56:41,200 --> 00:56:43,000
archaeologists simply don't
know.

863
00:56:43,300 --> 00:56:46,800
But many of the original names
for these Mayan cities were if

864
00:56:46,800 --> 00:56:48,400
archaeologists.
Don't know the names of some

865
00:56:48,400 --> 00:56:51,000
cities they have discovered, how
should, how could we ever hope

866
00:56:51,000 --> 00:56:53,500
to provide English names?
Those cities, such as names

867
00:56:53,500 --> 00:56:56,800
provided in the Book of Mormon?
It's another straw man, right?

868
00:56:56,800 --> 00:56:57,400
One.
Who I have?

869
00:56:57,400 --> 00:56:59,300
What we found.
Is there a hibbler written on a

870
00:56:59,300 --> 00:57:03,200
stone somewhere?
Because Sarah Hamlet is an

871
00:57:03,200 --> 00:57:08,000
English interpretation of some
reformed Egyptian text, right?

872
00:57:08,200 --> 00:57:10,700
I mean, it's it's an
impossibility.

873
00:57:11,000 --> 00:57:13,300
Well, ever the less.
Yeah.

874
00:57:13,300 --> 00:57:14,700
And I think that's a Fool's
errand.

875
00:57:15,100 --> 00:57:17,000
Yeah.
And the other thing I would say

876
00:57:17,000 --> 00:57:19,300
about, you know, that you're
right.

877
00:57:19,300 --> 00:57:22,200
That's the other thing.
I like the latch onto is the,

878
00:57:22,800 --> 00:57:26,800
the reformed Egyptian argument,
right?

879
00:57:27,200 --> 00:57:29,500
That's my favorite one.
Knock it out of the park.

880
00:57:29,500 --> 00:57:32,100
Everybody knows there was What
you want?

881
00:57:32,100 --> 00:57:34,000
Yep.
And and and they say, well why

882
00:57:34,000 --> 00:57:38,500
don't we find more of it in in
the new world?

883
00:57:39,000 --> 00:57:42,200
And that's another straw, man
argument.

884
00:57:42,300 --> 00:57:44,700
Go ahead, go ahead.
I'll let you mind culture.

885
00:57:44,700 --> 00:57:46,900
Well, here's sorts and pointed
this out.

886
00:57:46,900 --> 00:57:50,200
In terms of trying to identify
book more Milan's, two primary

887
00:57:50,200 --> 00:57:55,200
requirements, massive
populations in the millions and

888
00:57:55,500 --> 00:58:00,100
and concrete evidence of
literacy writing.

889
00:58:00,800 --> 00:58:05,500
We don't Find that in South
America, we don't find that en

890
00:58:05,500 --> 00:58:09,700
masse in North America, thus
far, the only American ancient

891
00:58:09,700 --> 00:58:13,300
cultures we know of the had
massive populations and literacy

892
00:58:13,300 --> 00:58:17,200
where the Aztec and the Maya,
and the Aztecs occurred far too

893
00:58:17,200 --> 00:58:19,100
late.
They chronologically don't

894
00:58:19,100 --> 00:58:21,300
agree.
So that leaves us with the Maya,

895
00:58:21,500 --> 00:58:25,600
the Maya we know they had
writing, we know that they have

896
00:58:25,600 --> 00:58:29,200
libraries.
Libraries of stuff.

897
00:58:29,400 --> 00:58:31,000
What happened to those
libraries?

898
00:58:32,400 --> 00:58:37,500
Destroyed by The Conquistadors,
by the well-meaning priest, who

899
00:58:37,500 --> 00:58:41,300
came over, were destroying those
writing to try to convert people

900
00:58:41,400 --> 00:58:44,700
to Christianity and so those
writings didn't cause him to

901
00:58:44,700 --> 00:58:48,000
revert back to their paganism.
There were entire Librarians.

902
00:58:48,700 --> 00:58:51,300
We know we have in the world
today.

903
00:58:51,900 --> 00:58:55,200
There are four exactly for Mayan
books.

904
00:58:55,600 --> 00:59:01,800
Remaining four.
That's it and had libraries on

905
00:59:01,800 --> 00:59:06,200
the, it's so sad when you stop
to think about that, right?

906
00:59:06,200 --> 00:59:10,100
Whether it's here in the new
world with the Maya or, you

907
00:59:10,100 --> 00:59:12,700
know, the the library at
Alexandria.

908
00:59:12,700 --> 00:59:14,300
Alexandria.
That's what comes to mind,

909
00:59:14,500 --> 00:59:16,900
right?
I mean, it's the same pattern

910
00:59:16,900 --> 00:59:19,900
over and over again.
And I think what it does is it,

911
00:59:20,900 --> 00:59:25,400
it just creates gaps in our own
history that are nearly

912
00:59:25,400 --> 00:59:28,000
impossible to fill again.
But the other thing I'd say

913
00:59:28,000 --> 00:59:34,500
about, Reformed Egyptian is that
one, we know that the language

914
00:59:34,800 --> 00:59:39,300
was interpreted, you know, it
could be interpreted in Egyptian

915
00:59:39,300 --> 00:59:43,000
or Hebrew, but the other thing
I'd say is, there's no

916
00:59:43,000 --> 00:59:46,500
guaranteed that that language
didn't undergo changes once that

917
00:59:46,500 --> 00:59:49,300
it is B, got to the new world,
right?

918
00:59:49,300 --> 00:59:52,500
The Book of Mormon says, is not
right?

919
00:59:53,300 --> 00:59:59,900
Absolutely, so, so here we are
to the Definite, the greatest

920
00:59:59,900 --> 01:00:02,300
Smoking Gun in the Book of
Mormon.

921
01:00:02,600 --> 01:00:08,200
Because it's in the old world in
Nephi.

922
01:00:08,200 --> 01:00:13,500
In first Nephi, 16 verse, 34
Nephi tells us tells us all that

923
01:00:13,500 --> 01:00:17,600
he wished us to know about the
place called Nahum, and it came

924
01:00:17,600 --> 01:00:21,600
to pass that Ishmael died and
was buried in the place, which

925
01:00:21,600 --> 01:00:25,000
was called Nahum.
They didn't name it was a

926
01:00:25,000 --> 01:00:28,600
pre-existing place and he
Ishmael died at the point when

927
01:00:28,600 --> 01:00:31,800
they were, if you follow people
marked, the math of them

928
01:00:31,800 --> 01:00:37,100
fleeing, Elam it was before they
had cut east across the Arabian

929
01:00:37,100 --> 01:00:39,400
Peninsula.
So it was near the shores of the

930
01:00:39,400 --> 01:00:42,500
Red Sea but on toward the
southern tip of the Arabian

931
01:00:42,500 --> 01:00:47,400
Peninsula, non-lds,
archaeologists discovered an

932
01:00:47,400 --> 01:00:51,000
ancient city and it was called
Nahum.

933
01:00:51,800 --> 01:00:56,000
How do they know this?
Because there were three ancient

934
01:00:56,000 --> 01:01:00,100
Alters inscribed chiseled on
these blocks of stone.

935
01:01:01,200 --> 01:01:06,400
Where the letters in hm, because
they don't use vowels and submit

936
01:01:06,400 --> 01:01:09,900
right judges.
So, the wording makes clear that

937
01:01:09,900 --> 01:01:12,700
name was not made by Lehigh's
party was already known by that

938
01:01:12,700 --> 01:01:15,800
name to look people.
Thus other people were already

939
01:01:15,800 --> 01:01:17,300
settled in proximity to the
Lehigh.

940
01:01:17,300 --> 01:01:20,600
Encampment Mayhem was, or at
least included a place of

941
01:01:20,600 --> 01:01:23,600
burial.
According to Nephi note, that

942
01:01:23,600 --> 01:01:26,300
Nephi does not State additional
died there, but that he was

943
01:01:26,300 --> 01:01:30,800
buried there.
Implying, I lost you still

944
01:01:30,800 --> 01:01:33,100
there.
Other year that included an

945
01:01:33,100 --> 01:01:35,800
established variables.
We get, we got a, we got a bit

946
01:01:35,800 --> 01:01:39,500
of a storm.
So if we re 3 chisel blocks of

947
01:01:39,500 --> 01:01:42,000
Stone, from a pagan temple in
Yemen now, provide

948
01:01:42,000 --> 01:01:45,000
incontrovertible
incontrovertible evidence that

949
01:01:45,000 --> 01:01:49,200
in fact that name did exist in
the and that the area was a

950
01:01:49,200 --> 01:01:53,600
logical place to bury Ishmael.
And then there's this photograph

951
01:01:53,600 --> 01:01:56,500
of the ancient altar with the
inscription Nahum, which is

952
01:01:56,500 --> 01:01:59,700
donated to a temple.
Guess when?

953
01:02:01,000 --> 01:02:10,600
600 BC.
Ah, It's Joe, you know, anybody?

954
01:02:13,100 --> 01:02:15,700
I wish it was an experiment that
could be done, where you could

955
01:02:15,700 --> 01:02:21,900
take someone who's never heard
of The Book of Mormon and just

956
01:02:22,800 --> 01:02:25,500
go around and show them all of
these things.

957
01:02:26,700 --> 01:02:28,300
And then hand them a book of
Mormon.

958
01:02:29,100 --> 01:02:32,200
Let him read like that.
And then, like, oh yeah, I

959
01:02:32,200 --> 01:02:34,800
remember seeing that, right?
Every member here about that,

960
01:02:35,600 --> 01:02:38,900
this must be a history book
because again, if your baton

961
01:02:38,900 --> 01:02:42,400
90%, that's a pretty darn good.
Average.

962
01:02:42,400 --> 01:02:46,500
Can, I mean that's, that's not
just throwing crap against the

963
01:02:46,500 --> 01:02:49,000
wall to see what sticks that.
Not only that.

964
01:02:49,100 --> 01:02:54,200
There were three bull's-eyes
bull's-eyes of stupid things.

965
01:02:54,300 --> 01:03:00,000
You elephants horses, go play.
Marley, it's all there cement.

966
01:03:00,200 --> 01:03:05,200
I mean, people still mock us for
that and ignorance of the actual

967
01:03:05,200 --> 01:03:09,400
archaeological discoveries in, I
would say in any other

968
01:03:09,400 --> 01:03:12,600
discipline other than
archaeology today.

969
01:03:13,400 --> 01:03:17,300
If you were to come out whether
it was you were trying to figure

970
01:03:17,300 --> 01:03:21,900
out the puzzle of the universe
and you could hit 90 percent of

971
01:03:21,900 --> 01:03:23,800
what You observe.
Yeah.

972
01:03:23,800 --> 01:03:25,800
Action.
They would be like, oh, that's

973
01:03:25,800 --> 01:03:27,700
golden.
We're good then, right?

974
01:03:28,600 --> 01:03:31,100
To figure out but we're right
there.

975
01:03:33,700 --> 01:03:40,200
Well, let's move on to the
textual literary.

976
01:03:40,400 --> 01:03:44,300
Evidence is of the Book of
Mormon and I want to start.

977
01:03:44,400 --> 01:03:46,800
Can I ask a quick question
before we start?

978
01:03:46,800 --> 01:03:48,500
You can do whatever you want.
I'll scream.

979
01:03:48,500 --> 01:03:50,800
Ah, yes.
Explain to me.

980
01:03:50,800 --> 01:03:54,800
What chiasma Siz.
I'm so glad you went there so I

981
01:03:54,800 --> 01:03:57,300
wanted to start know.
I wanted to Start with names,

982
01:03:57,300 --> 01:04:05,600
but let's go to Kaya's.
Kai asmus is an ancient Hebrew

983
01:04:05,800 --> 01:04:11,200
literary form.
The ancient Hebrews were steeped

984
01:04:11,300 --> 01:04:16,100
in their in their poetry and how
they wrote Things was very

985
01:04:16,100 --> 01:04:19,900
specific and it was very
specifically taught in their

986
01:04:19,900 --> 01:04:26,300
synagogues and in their schools
And it wasn't rediscovered.

987
01:04:26,300 --> 01:04:36,900
Let me see here.
And it's a form of parallelism,

988
01:04:37,200 --> 01:04:41,700
parallelism.
So let's say you have an order,

989
01:04:41,700 --> 01:04:45,200
you're telling a story and in
that story, you have five

990
01:04:45,200 --> 01:04:48,500
specific events and you start,
you tell number one.

991
01:04:48,600 --> 01:04:52,600
Number two, third fourth and the
fifth event and then you re

992
01:04:52,600 --> 01:04:56,000
emphasize the fifth event and
repeat it backwards.

993
01:04:56,700 --> 01:05:02,200
So you go 1 2 3, 4 5, then 5 4 3
2 1, okay that is a chiasm

994
01:05:03,200 --> 01:05:06,500
that's a chiastic structure.
Sure the simplest one, being

995
01:05:07,500 --> 01:05:10,700
Hickory Dickory Dock, the mouse
ran up the clock, the Clock

996
01:05:10,700 --> 01:05:14,200
Struck One, the mouse came down,
Hickory Dickory, Dock, those

997
01:05:14,200 --> 01:05:16,600
were just a reverse ordered
parallels, right?

998
01:05:16,900 --> 01:05:21,000
So can any shape?
Yes, we're like in the Bible.

999
01:05:21,000 --> 01:05:24,100
Would you seek?
I asmus because you'll find in

1000
01:05:24,100 --> 01:05:26,200
the Old Testament.
It's obscured because the

1001
01:05:26,200 --> 01:05:29,800
translation process because the
translators didn't know anything

1002
01:05:29,800 --> 01:05:34,600
about That is so they wouldn't
keep the same words off the top

1003
01:05:34,600 --> 01:05:35,800
of my head.
I don't have one.

1004
01:05:36,200 --> 01:05:39,800
I was looking at one just the
other day but I don't have that

1005
01:05:39,800 --> 01:05:43,100
on me right now.
It's all a lot of people.

1006
01:05:43,100 --> 01:05:45,900
Criticize o people.
Do Chi has was all the time, you

1007
01:05:45,900 --> 01:05:49,900
know, Hickory Dickory, Dock the
Shakespeare had some but what

1008
01:05:49,900 --> 01:05:56,600
they cannot comprehend Is that
the longest and most perfect

1009
01:05:56,600 --> 01:06:01,200
chiasm known to the world.
Today is in the book of Alma.

1010
01:06:02,500 --> 01:06:09,100
Really, the book of Alma
chapter, 36, chapter 36, 30

1011
01:06:09,100 --> 01:06:13,100
verses long.
The entire chapter, the whole

1012
01:06:13,100 --> 01:06:19,500
chapter is one chiastic
structure that has 17 elements.

1013
01:06:20,400 --> 01:06:24,700
That are repeated in order and
get to 17 repeats it.

1014
01:06:25,400 --> 01:06:28,100
And then says, they'll 17 items
in reverse order.

1015
01:06:30,800 --> 01:06:33,600
Kai asmus was not discovered in
the Book of Mormon.

1016
01:06:33,800 --> 01:06:38,200
Nobody knew a thing about it
until the 1960s.

1017
01:06:39,500 --> 01:06:42,600
When a young missionary serving
in Germany by the name of John

1018
01:06:42,600 --> 01:06:45,800
Welch, that he and His companion
were going to.

1019
01:06:45,800 --> 01:06:49,300
This Bible study with the
Lutheran scholar and the

1020
01:06:49,300 --> 01:06:53,800
Lutheran's Feller is teaching
them about chiasma sand that it

1021
01:06:53,800 --> 01:06:58,100
was evidence of Hebrew writing
and these stupid missionaries.

1022
01:06:58,100 --> 01:07:00,400
They go home and they go I
wonder if there's any in the

1023
01:07:00,400 --> 01:07:06,300
Book of Mormon and they found
loads of them, the one in Alma

1024
01:07:06,300 --> 01:07:08,100
being the most, extensive of
them all.

1025
01:07:08,400 --> 01:07:10,400
And the, in their excitement,
they go, in the middle of the

1026
01:07:10,400 --> 01:07:12,700
night.
They knock on this Lutheran

1027
01:07:12,700 --> 01:07:17,300
pastors door, the scholar, and
they show him this class.

1028
01:07:17,300 --> 01:07:19,800
This task was from The Book of
Mormon, this chiasm.

1029
01:07:20,300 --> 01:07:25,200
And he says, oh, this is a
particularly beautiful example,

1030
01:07:25,800 --> 01:07:29,300
what's it from?
And he's a shallot, It's in the

1031
01:07:29,300 --> 01:07:31,500
Book of Mormon, he slams the
door and kicks him out.

1032
01:07:32,100 --> 01:07:37,300
Wow.
So and Alma chapter 36, it's one

1033
01:07:37,300 --> 01:07:41,000
thing to talk about it, but when
I finally went, you know, and I

1034
01:07:41,008 --> 01:07:43,900
was like, yeah.
And then the literary evidence

1035
01:07:43,900 --> 01:07:46,900
is are not as exciting and while
we use cement and elephants and

1036
01:07:46,908 --> 01:07:51,600
that's working until you see it
with your own eyes, which is why

1037
01:07:51,600 --> 01:07:53,200
the Book of Mormon was give it
to us.

1038
01:07:53,400 --> 01:07:58,100
Anybody can grab it and read it
for themselves and what you will

1039
01:07:58,100 --> 01:08:01,000
find to Joseph Smith was not
aware of it.

1040
01:08:01,400 --> 01:08:04,700
No, the verse the first vacation
Of the Book of Mormon occurred

1041
01:08:04,700 --> 01:08:09,200
in 1879 by Orson Pratt and you
will find that the verses do not

1042
01:08:09,200 --> 01:08:13,300
follow the chiastic structure
meaning in 1879 or some crap, or

1043
01:08:13,300 --> 01:08:17,200
anybody else knew that it was
there, right?

1044
01:08:17,200 --> 01:08:20,899
It was there the whole time.
So what I did, without reading

1045
01:08:20,899 --> 01:08:25,200
anything, I went to Alma 36 and
I started at verse 1 and verse

1046
01:08:25,200 --> 01:08:31,899
30 and began comparing And lo
and behold it is exact and I've

1047
01:08:31,899 --> 01:08:36,100
marked it they'll 17 elements in
exact reverse order.

1048
01:08:36,899 --> 01:08:39,600
One of the other defining
purposes of the chiastic

1049
01:08:39,600 --> 01:08:44,200
structure is that the pivotal
element, so you have to 17 and

1050
01:08:44,200 --> 01:08:49,399
reverse on repeating 17.
Again, is the key point of that

1051
01:08:49,399 --> 01:08:53,500
structure and it's usually
revolving around God or Christ.

1052
01:08:54,399 --> 01:08:59,800
In a novel 36:17, I remembered
Jesus Christ.

1053
01:08:59,899 --> 01:09:04,700
A Son of God and that's where it
reverses and verse 18, I cried

1054
01:09:05,100 --> 01:09:08,300
Jesus Christ, Son of God and
that starts reversing those

1055
01:09:08,300 --> 01:09:11,399
elements.
Again, the pivotal point of

1056
01:09:11,399 --> 01:09:16,700
that, chiasm in chapter 36 is
Jesus Christ.

1057
01:09:17,300 --> 01:09:21,700
Hmm.
What a coincidence and I have

1058
01:09:21,700 --> 01:09:24,000
three or four or five of my
favorite.

1059
01:09:24,500 --> 01:09:27,000
Chiasm.
'S picked out all of them.

1060
01:09:27,000 --> 01:09:28,800
This is the longest one you will
find.

1061
01:09:28,800 --> 01:09:34,600
It's the whole chapter.
The Joseph Oliver cowdery Orson

1062
01:09:34,600 --> 01:09:36,899
Pratt.
Nobody knew it was even even

1063
01:09:36,899 --> 01:09:41,600
knew that it was there.
Never meant until the 1960s.

1064
01:09:42,200 --> 01:09:46,200
Way to go.
That is just that's one of those

1065
01:09:46,200 --> 01:09:52,399
things that I know as somebody
who believes this.

1066
01:09:52,500 --> 01:09:58,400
Not because first, I received a
cerebral witness, or someone

1067
01:09:58,400 --> 01:10:02,400
convinced me, you know,
scholastically but because I

1068
01:10:02,400 --> 01:10:09,300
received it spiritually first.
but when you hear about that it,

1069
01:10:09,300 --> 01:10:12,200
if you're if you're someone who
believes in the restoration that

1070
01:10:12,200 --> 01:10:18,600
should give you enormous
confidence, going forward that

1071
01:10:18,600 --> 01:10:23,800
this is not Not the religion of
a charismatic individual who

1072
01:10:23,800 --> 01:10:28,300
could get people to follow him.
This has some Keith lots of

1073
01:10:28,300 --> 01:10:30,500
teeth.
I mean, you and I are just

1074
01:10:30,500 --> 01:10:32,800
getting started.
I have to tell you story, my

1075
01:10:32,800 --> 01:10:34,900
father-in-law is a
Fundamentalist.

1076
01:10:36,700 --> 01:10:39,500
Okay.
Okay, he and I are friends and

1077
01:10:39,508 --> 01:10:42,600
we love talking by just he's a
terminally degreed intelligent,

1078
01:10:42,600 --> 01:10:45,300
man, and I love his wisdom, he
loves church history.

1079
01:10:45,300 --> 01:10:48,800
Love talking about this.
He didn't know about class - I

1080
01:10:48,808 --> 01:10:51,400
mean, he's a True Believer when
I was telling him about Kai

1081
01:10:51,400 --> 01:10:56,800
asmus and he, his doctorate
degree is in literature.

1082
01:10:57,700 --> 01:11:01,900
So he appreciates the written
were when he when I was telling

1083
01:11:01,900 --> 01:11:05,300
about this and I showed him one,
he just burst out and he doesn't

1084
01:11:05,300 --> 01:11:07,600
do this.
He says The Book of Mormon is

1085
01:11:07,600 --> 01:11:11,600
true, which would you always
knew?

1086
01:11:11,600 --> 01:11:14,100
But it's like you and me when we
see these things with our own

1087
01:11:14,100 --> 01:11:20,100
eyes, it's reaffirmed to us that
oh my gosh, Joseph Smith, he

1088
01:11:20,100 --> 01:11:24,300
really did translate this and he
wasn't, it wasn't a loose

1089
01:11:24,300 --> 01:11:27,200
translation.
A loose translation would not

1090
01:11:27,200 --> 01:11:30,000
have provided a word-for-word
chiastic structure.

1091
01:11:30,500 --> 01:11:34,300
Those 17 elements are repeated,
identically word for word in

1092
01:11:34,300 --> 01:11:38,700
reverse order.
And and Let's, here's the other

1093
01:11:38,700 --> 01:11:41,800
thing that I would say here to
Kim, there's a picture of it.

1094
01:11:42,900 --> 01:11:45,900
Oh, wow.
Yeah, that's awesome.

1095
01:11:46,200 --> 01:11:50,000
Here's the other thing I'm going
to say for those that are tend

1096
01:11:50,000 --> 01:11:52,200
to be the the progressive
Mormons, right?

1097
01:11:52,200 --> 01:11:56,200
Those who want to believe that
maybe the Book of Mormon wasn't

1098
01:11:56,200 --> 01:11:59,300
literal, or there weren't really
playing with, right?

1099
01:12:00,000 --> 01:12:04,000
And, I guess you're not going to
get Kai asmus through and

1100
01:12:04,200 --> 01:12:09,200
inspirational idea, right?
You're going to get chiasma this

1101
01:12:09,200 --> 01:12:11,400
by actually, translating
something.

1102
01:12:12,100 --> 01:12:14,200
He could get a class Miss with
two elements.

1103
01:12:14,300 --> 01:12:19,800
It's accidentally, sure.
But not 36, not like they're not

1104
01:12:19,800 --> 01:12:24,000
30 forces.
Yeah, right sep 17 elements in

1105
01:12:24,000 --> 01:12:28,300
Reverse with 1734.
Total elements, the longest,

1106
01:12:28,300 --> 01:12:31,900
chiasm known to the world and
it's perfect.

1107
01:12:33,100 --> 01:12:35,900
And it how it pivots on Jesus
Christ.

1108
01:12:37,200 --> 01:12:41,800
That's that is not an accident
that cannot be an accident and

1109
01:12:41,900 --> 01:12:45,800
it for those who say well, maybe
Joseph read some Shakespeare,

1110
01:12:45,800 --> 01:12:47,900
something like that.
I'm like have you read Joseph

1111
01:12:47,900 --> 01:12:51,800
Smith, have you must awake.
He said, these are not people

1112
01:12:51,800 --> 01:12:55,800
who are hanging out, you know,
on the frontier of America

1113
01:12:55,800 --> 01:12:57,100
going.
You know what, go?

1114
01:12:57,100 --> 01:13:02,800
Well right now, a little Hamlet,
that's not happening, but what

1115
01:13:02,800 --> 01:13:06,700
I'm seeing themselves, right?
So this is Joseph.

1116
01:13:06,900 --> 01:13:09,100
Got time just to hang out and
read Shakespeare.

1117
01:13:09,100 --> 01:13:14,800
It's not happening and chiasma,
this doesn't really from what I

1118
01:13:14,808 --> 01:13:16,600
understand.
The Western mind doesn't

1119
01:13:16,600 --> 01:13:19,400
understand this, tell the early
20th century.

1120
01:13:20,100 --> 01:13:24,300
So I asked, cosmas is a form of
what is what people refer to as

1121
01:13:24,300 --> 01:13:30,400
Hebrew isms Hebrew literary
mannerisms that are unique to

1122
01:13:30,400 --> 01:13:34,200
that culture.
An article that was written In

1123
01:13:34,200 --> 01:13:36,600
2002 by Donald Perry.
Great LDS.

1124
01:13:36,600 --> 01:13:44,400
Collar goes through this multi
page article, detailing 17,

1125
01:13:44,600 --> 01:13:51,300
Hebrew isms All present, within
the Book of Mormon will go

1126
01:13:51,300 --> 01:13:55,400
through some of those admit it.
But my favorite thing, one of my

1127
01:13:55,400 --> 01:14:00,100
favorite literary, evidences are
the names in The Book of Mark.

1128
01:14:02,200 --> 01:14:06,700
Crazy names, most of which you
won't find anywhere else, right?

1129
01:14:06,700 --> 01:14:12,900
Right.
Hugh Nibley was writing, this is

1130
01:14:12,900 --> 01:14:15,200
in the collected works of Hugh
Nibley, volume 6.

1131
01:14:16,300 --> 01:14:19,700
He says recently there have been
discovered lists of the names of

1132
01:14:19,700 --> 01:14:23,900
prisoners that Nebuchadnezzar
brought back to Babylon from him

1133
01:14:24,000 --> 01:14:26,800
the with him from his Great
Expedition into Syria and

1134
01:14:26,800 --> 01:14:29,700
Palestine.
So these are Hebrew slaves they

1135
01:14:29,700 --> 01:14:35,000
have lists of their names.
What are they?

1136
01:14:35,500 --> 01:14:37,900
These represent a good
cross-section of proper names.

1137
01:14:37,900 --> 01:14:43,900
Prevailing in those lands in the
days of Lehigh and among them is

1138
01:14:43,900 --> 01:14:47,000
a respectable proportion of
Shouldn't names.

1139
01:14:47,000 --> 01:14:49,100
What?
Why did the Hebrews have

1140
01:14:49,100 --> 01:14:52,200
Egyptian names?
Which is what the Book of Mormon

1141
01:14:52,200 --> 01:14:55,800
would lead us to really expect.
Why also in the list are

1142
01:14:55,800 --> 01:14:59,200
Philistine Phoenician Ela, my
Medallion Persian Greek and

1143
01:14:59,200 --> 01:15:02,300
Lydia names, all the sweepings
of a campaign into Lehigh's

1144
01:15:02,300 --> 01:15:05,300
country.
According to DW, Thomas, this

1145
01:15:05,300 --> 01:15:09,200
list shows that it was popular
at the time, Lee ice time to

1146
01:15:09,200 --> 01:15:13,100
name children after Egyptian
hero Kings of the past, a

1147
01:15:13,100 --> 01:15:16,000
surprisingly large number of the
non hebraic.

1148
01:15:16,100 --> 01:15:21,600
I fight names are of this class,
thus the name, aha, which Nephi

1149
01:15:21,600 --> 01:15:25,100
General bestowed on.
His son means warrior in

1150
01:15:25,100 --> 01:15:28,800
Egyptian and it was born by the
legendary first hero king of

1151
01:15:28,800 --> 01:15:32,500
Egypt him.
Die korihor Panky.

1152
01:15:32,500 --> 01:15:39,000
Pacu many Psalm zayas rom-com.
Monty neffe Nephi and Xena are

1153
01:15:39,000 --> 01:15:43,200
all Egyptian hero names.
Wow.

1154
01:15:44,400 --> 01:15:47,800
All the tested in ancient Egypt
and it goes on.

1155
01:15:47,800 --> 01:15:50,400
I'll give you some specifics but
he concludes I'll give you his

1156
01:15:50,400 --> 01:15:53,600
conclusion.
He said Joseph Smith new a

1157
01:15:53,600 --> 01:15:55,900
number.
We're talking hundreds of names,

1158
01:15:56,300 --> 01:16:00,200
there are over 300 proper names.
In The Book of Mormon Joseph

1159
01:16:00,200 --> 01:16:03,100
Smith, knew a number of
typically Egyptian names, queer

1160
01:16:03,100 --> 01:16:06,300
sounding words in no way
resembling Hebrew or any other

1161
01:16:06,300 --> 01:16:08,100
language known to the world of
Joseph.

1162
01:16:08,100 --> 01:16:12,000
Smith's time, it is no small
feat, simply to have picked a

1163
01:16:12,008 --> 01:16:15,600
lot of strange and original
names out of the Are but what do

1164
01:16:15,600 --> 01:16:19,200
we say of the man who is able to
pick the right ones?

1165
01:16:21,400 --> 01:16:24,400
What does he mean by that, we've
been learning that the Book of

1166
01:16:24,400 --> 01:16:28,800
Mormon names are also highly
symbolic the representative.

1167
01:16:29,600 --> 01:16:32,200
They actually refer to the role
of the Book of Mormon character,

1168
01:16:32,200 --> 01:16:37,200
which is weird, How would, how
making up names, but have them

1169
01:16:37,200 --> 01:16:40,400
in the right context is an
impossibility.

1170
01:16:40,700 --> 01:16:46,900
Wow, hundreds of times, right?
We talked about aha, how about

1171
01:16:46,900 --> 01:16:52,100
Amman?
Which would be Egyptian among in

1172
01:16:52,100 --> 01:16:54,600
the Book of Mormon is the most
common name in The Book of

1173
01:16:54,600 --> 01:17:00,600
Mormon and the old world.
I'm oh no.

1174
01:17:00,600 --> 01:17:03,800
Moon is the commonest name in
the Egyptian Empire?

1175
01:17:04,600 --> 01:17:07,700
The great Universal, god of the
Empire, the temples are named

1176
01:17:07,700 --> 01:17:12,800
the Temple of Abu coincidence.
I'm an IHOP name of a country

1177
01:17:12,800 --> 01:17:17,400
and city in the old world.
The prince of Beirut under

1178
01:17:17,400 --> 01:17:20,400
Egyptian rule the above might
stand the same relationship to

1179
01:17:20,400 --> 01:17:23,600
this name.
What am I?

1180
01:17:23,600 --> 01:17:25,000
Some of my favorites did you
don't?

1181
01:17:25,000 --> 01:17:30,800
I give you a name him brother of
the earlier Amman him in the old

1182
01:17:30,800 --> 01:17:34,100
world means servant specifically
of a moan.

1183
01:17:35,000 --> 01:17:38,000
Hmm was a servant of a so they
are related.

1184
01:17:42,800 --> 01:17:44,600
Him night, a son of King
Messiah.

1185
01:17:45,400 --> 01:17:47,800
Hmn and the old world is the
name of the Egyptian.

1186
01:17:47,800 --> 01:17:50,100
Hot.
God symbol of the emperor and

1187
01:17:50,100 --> 01:17:52,400
goes, he goes on for three pages
with this stuff.

1188
01:17:55,300 --> 01:17:59,000
Wow.
So even the names.

1189
01:17:59,700 --> 01:18:01,700
Wow, what a genius.
He was.

1190
01:18:02,900 --> 01:18:05,500
Knowing all about these ancient
Egyptian connections.

1191
01:18:05,700 --> 01:18:08,800
Yeah.
And and it fits perfectly within

1192
01:18:08,800 --> 01:18:14,200
the time that Lehigh would be
coming or that Lehigh would be

1193
01:18:14,200 --> 01:18:16,000
in in the Holy Land.
Right?

1194
01:18:16,000 --> 01:18:20,200
And yeah, exactly.
Because Egypt was a massive

1195
01:18:20,200 --> 01:18:26,100
Center of Commerce.
It was, it was pivotal during

1196
01:18:26,100 --> 01:18:29,100
those times.
Here's something else that I

1197
01:18:29,100 --> 01:18:32,600
recently learned about the names
of all the names of persons

1198
01:18:32,600 --> 01:18:36,200
mentioned in the Old Testament.
None of them are surnames

1199
01:18:36,600 --> 01:18:39,400
Biblical characters, whether
notable, or not, we're known by

1200
01:18:39,400 --> 01:18:42,400
one name.
Only what we find in the Book of

1201
01:18:42,400 --> 01:18:47,700
Mormon, the exact same thing.
They're known by one name, and

1202
01:18:47,700 --> 01:18:50,500
those names is translated into
the English language.

1203
01:18:51,500 --> 01:18:55,900
Neither use the letters q X or W
and they never begin with the

1204
01:18:55,900 --> 01:18:59,500
letter f.
Yeah, I'm just sitting here

1205
01:18:59,500 --> 01:19:04,200
thinking right now our own.
I don't see him Foreman, we

1206
01:19:04,200 --> 01:19:06,900
don't see that.
So, there's there in the Bible

1207
01:19:06,900 --> 01:19:10,500
notes, you x, no que, nor x no W
or no f.

1208
01:19:11,700 --> 01:19:13,400
It's exactly the same for the
bottom line.

1209
01:19:13,700 --> 01:19:17,300
Yeah, as you said that I was
just sitting here thinking,

1210
01:19:17,300 --> 01:19:20,500
okay?
Can do no more Mormon?

1211
01:19:20,500 --> 01:19:24,700
No?
Yeah, so nothing hundred out of

1212
01:19:24,700 --> 01:19:30,200
337 proper names in The Book of
Mormon, not one of them use QX W

1213
01:19:30,200 --> 01:19:34,900
4f or start with F.
Boy, he was a good guesser,

1214
01:19:34,900 --> 01:19:38,500
wasn't he?
Well in that you know this has

1215
01:19:38,500 --> 01:19:41,600
been I mean this is so fun for
me to go over these again

1216
01:19:41,600 --> 01:19:46,500
because you know you forget
stuff but you know for here's

1217
01:19:46,500 --> 01:19:56,000
one of my favorites.
And it came to pass occurs in

1218
01:19:56,700 --> 01:20:08,700
the Book of Mormon, a lot
thousand, 1279 1297 X, Mark,

1219
01:20:08,700 --> 01:20:12,000
Twain joke.
He said if Joseph Smith had left

1220
01:20:12,000 --> 01:20:15,100
out the many instances of and it
came to pass from The Book of

1221
01:20:15,100 --> 01:20:19,300
Mormon book would have only been
a pamphlet and some are doing

1222
01:20:19,600 --> 01:20:25,300
said and people laugh about
that, but what they do not know

1223
01:20:27,300 --> 01:20:30,100
Is that ancient writing?
And this is prior to the

1224
01:20:30,108 --> 01:20:33,600
invention of the press.
There were no, there was no

1225
01:20:33,600 --> 01:20:37,100
punctuation.
They didn't punctuation was the

1226
01:20:37,108 --> 01:20:39,400
development of the modern
printing press.

1227
01:20:40,300 --> 01:20:43,700
And so, how did they transition
from one idea to the next

1228
01:20:43,700 --> 01:20:45,700
without a period or something
like that?

1229
01:20:45,900 --> 01:20:48,600
Let me guess it came to pass,
right?

1230
01:20:48,800 --> 01:20:53,400
Or, and so what happened or and
then write those transition

1231
01:20:53,400 --> 01:20:55,100
words.
And there's a very specific word

1232
01:20:55,100 --> 01:20:59,500
for that.
In.

1233
01:21:01,700 --> 01:21:09,500
The ancient texts.
So, what you will find Let's

1234
01:21:09,500 --> 01:21:13,500
see.
In the Hebrew Bible which we

1235
01:21:13,500 --> 01:21:15,400
would expect to have the same
thing, right?

1236
01:21:20,100 --> 01:21:22,100
Advocate for past is the
translation of the Hebrew

1237
01:21:22,100 --> 01:21:25,300
expression used frequently and
scriptural, histories and crawl

1238
01:21:25,300 --> 01:21:28,100
chronologies and far less
frequently in poetry.

1239
01:21:28,100 --> 01:21:30,400
So, it's in histories and
chronologies because they're

1240
01:21:31,100 --> 01:21:34,700
showing a progression of events,
which you would have to say, and

1241
01:21:34,700 --> 01:21:37,300
next.
And then, and it came to pass,

1242
01:21:37,300 --> 01:21:39,200
right?
So not a poetry, not a

1243
01:21:39,208 --> 01:21:44,300
prophecies are direct speech.
In the Hebrew form, the

1244
01:21:44,300 --> 01:21:49,800
expression is found in Hebrew
Bible. 1200 times in the Hebrew

1245
01:21:49,800 --> 01:21:52,900
form in the Hebrew.
It was translated in the King

1246
01:21:52,900 --> 01:21:56,400
James version.
And as Anna Kate past only about

1247
01:21:56,400 --> 01:21:58,300
seven hundred and twenty-seven
times.

1248
01:21:59,100 --> 01:22:01,700
King James translators, probably
thought the expression was

1249
01:22:01,700 --> 01:22:04,500
redundant to cover some, which
explained why they often

1250
01:22:04,500 --> 01:22:08,800
translated it as and it became
or and it was or just aunt.

1251
01:22:10,000 --> 01:22:12,100
On a number of occasions, they
simply ignore the expression

1252
01:22:12,100 --> 01:22:14,900
altogether, but in the Old
Testament, it is as frequent

1253
01:22:15,300 --> 01:22:19,200
1200 times as the Book of
Mormon, wow, 1,300 times.

1254
01:22:20,400 --> 01:22:27,100
Wow.
And now similar to Old Testament

1255
01:22:27,100 --> 01:22:31,200
uses the phrase and it came to
pass is not found in the Book of

1256
01:22:31,200 --> 01:22:33,100
Mormon.
When there are Psalms

1257
01:22:33,200 --> 01:22:37,600
Lamentations Proverbs, which are
all poetic forms blessing curses

1258
01:22:37,600 --> 01:22:39,800
prayers.
Speeches are dialogues where the

1259
01:22:39,800 --> 01:22:42,900
/ first person is speaking only
when it's talking about

1260
01:22:42,900 --> 01:22:46,700
histories and chronologies is a
Decay Professor used in The Book

1261
01:22:46,700 --> 01:22:50,100
of Mormon, identical to its
usage in the Old Testament.

1262
01:22:50,200 --> 01:22:55,400
Testament.
Joseph Smith was a blinking

1263
01:22:55,400 --> 01:23:03,800
genius. you the other thing, I
did, I started my own audit and

1264
01:23:10,400 --> 01:23:14,400
in the Old Testament came to
pass 727 that exist in English.

1265
01:23:15,000 --> 01:23:18,200
It came to pass occurs once
every three pages the New

1266
01:23:18,200 --> 01:23:22,100
Testaments once every six pages
and the pearl of great price,

1267
01:23:22,200 --> 01:23:27,100
which is a more ancient once
every page In the Pista, Sophia

1268
01:23:27,100 --> 01:23:32,200
that we discussed it averages.
Once every page while Book of

1269
01:23:32,208 --> 01:23:35,700
Mormon, it's two and a half
times every page, the closer a

1270
01:23:35,708 --> 01:23:39,200
text is historically to ancient
Egypt, the more frequent is the

1271
01:23:39,200 --> 01:23:43,800
use of it came to pass.
So let me ask you will find it

1272
01:23:43,800 --> 01:23:45,800
in the doctor and governors of
the teachings of problems.

1273
01:23:45,800 --> 01:23:47,300
Joseph Smith, it wasn't
something.

1274
01:23:47,300 --> 01:23:51,000
He was just throwing in to make
it sound special, right?

1275
01:23:51,100 --> 01:23:54,400
Right, translated.
All right, let me ask you this

1276
01:23:54,400 --> 01:23:59,100
about the Apocrypha.
Were in particular specifically

1277
01:23:59,100 --> 01:24:02,700
those that came during the time
of Christ.

1278
01:24:02,700 --> 01:24:05,900
Now Christ was speaking Aramaic
if I'm not.

1279
01:24:05,900 --> 01:24:10,400
Yes, yeah.
We find that in the Pista,

1280
01:24:10,400 --> 01:24:14,300
Sofia.
So what that was after the time

1281
01:24:14,300 --> 01:24:18,000
of Christ, right?
The tell them that was Sophia

1282
01:24:18,000 --> 01:24:21,200
claims that it was Jesus Christ
speaking, right?

1283
01:24:21,200 --> 01:24:25,200
The manuscript that we have
dates to the 1st 2nd Century so

1284
01:24:25,200 --> 01:24:27,300
it's really close.
Yeah, it was written.

1285
01:24:27,300 --> 01:24:31,700
It was written in Coptic, okay,
literature which is a Egyptian

1286
01:24:31,700 --> 01:24:34,300
right?
Or if it's related to yes,

1287
01:24:56,100 --> 01:25:08,300
And it's hard to read out loud
because it's not, right. like,

1288
01:25:10,600 --> 01:25:24,600
An example. behind me, or And so
much that they did fall back

1289
01:25:24,600 --> 01:25:30,400
from before them compound
prepositions back from before,

1290
01:25:31,100 --> 01:25:33,100
do you see those all over?
And that's an evident that's a

1291
01:25:33,108 --> 01:25:36,100
Hebrew is mm.
So just even little things like

1292
01:25:36,100 --> 01:25:40,300
that are evidence that he was
not making it up, he wasn't just

1293
01:25:40,300 --> 01:25:43,600
trying to sound like you was
King James eating it, you know?

1294
01:25:47,500 --> 01:25:50,800
So I it is extraordinary to say
the least.

1295
01:25:51,000 --> 01:25:53,400
So, let me ask you this.
Why we're talking about

1296
01:25:53,400 --> 01:25:58,200
Linguistics?
Is there anything that we can

1297
01:25:58,200 --> 01:26:03,900
link to either the Heartland or
the the Mesoamerican model?

1298
01:26:04,300 --> 01:26:07,300
That shows any sort of language
that those cultures would have

1299
01:26:07,300 --> 01:26:11,500
had that would have mimicked
these these Hebrew Roots, two

1300
01:26:11,500 --> 01:26:16,600
things come to mind, okay, there
is a Mayan glyph which means and

1301
01:26:16,600 --> 01:26:23,100
it came to pass.
Wow, I think most significantly

1302
01:26:25,300 --> 01:26:30,400
an LDS linguist ancient linguist
has done a study comparing

1303
01:26:31,100 --> 01:26:38,200
Hebrew to the ancient puto Aztec
and languages and has found

1304
01:26:38,200 --> 01:26:41,700
significant corollaries between
those languages.

1305
01:26:43,000 --> 01:26:47,300
One significant and I was just
listening to a podcast that

1306
01:26:47,300 --> 01:26:49,000
Jonathan Neville was being
interviewed.

1307
01:26:49,400 --> 01:26:51,800
And apparently he's done the
same with ancient.

1308
01:26:51,800 --> 01:26:54,300
Native American North Eastern
tribes and found similar

1309
01:26:54,300 --> 01:26:56,100
corollaries.
Yeah, I was going to say, I know

1310
01:26:56,100 --> 01:26:58,000
the gender that one hasn't been
published yet.

1311
01:26:58,900 --> 01:27:02,100
I know.
So I have, I have a friend that

1312
01:27:02,100 --> 01:27:09,900
I surveyed with, who was was
substantial, had a substantial

1313
01:27:09,900 --> 01:27:14,100
lineage Within The Cherokee
Nation.

1314
01:27:14,700 --> 01:27:18,200
Yeah, and there's a group of
Cherokees it actually talked

1315
01:27:18,200 --> 01:27:21,900
about, you know, that their
forefathers came from across the

1316
01:27:21,900 --> 01:27:27,600
sea and when they analyze their
language, there was a bunch of

1317
01:27:27,600 --> 01:27:30,600
Hebrew Hebrew I can't pronounce
it.

1318
01:27:30,600 --> 01:27:34,900
Can you're going to have to help
me Hebrew isms with in

1319
01:27:35,400 --> 01:27:38,400
Abraham's?
Yes, within their language.

1320
01:27:38,600 --> 01:27:40,300
Oh, yeah.
And it's interesting that

1321
01:27:40,300 --> 01:27:44,100
they're finding that not just in
Central America button in North

1322
01:27:44,100 --> 01:27:46,500
America as well.
I find it fascinating that we

1323
01:27:46,500 --> 01:27:48,500
can see those ties all the way
through.

1324
01:27:50,700 --> 01:27:55,900
I'm going to read this to you
and stubs began to study.

1325
01:27:56,000 --> 01:28:00,000
You do Aztec and languages.
You noticed a lot of

1326
01:28:00,000 --> 01:28:02,100
similarities to the Semitic
languages.

1327
01:28:02,300 --> 01:28:05,900
He had studied previously and he
early stages the identity be

1328
01:28:05,900 --> 01:28:08,900
identified.
Several hundred potential

1329
01:28:09,000 --> 01:28:13,100
cognates are words that have the
same linguistic origin between

1330
01:28:13,500 --> 01:28:18,100
Hebrew and noodle as Tekken
several hundred as he continued

1331
01:28:18,100 --> 01:28:20,300
his studies, a list expanded to
over.

1332
01:28:20,400 --> 01:28:25,400
Thousand potential connections
thousand and he discovered links

1333
01:28:25,400 --> 01:28:29,900
to Egyptian as well.
Who finally, after three decades

1334
01:28:29,900 --> 01:28:33,100
of research, he published a
comprehensive hence of study

1335
01:28:33,100 --> 01:28:38,800
documenting 1528 total
connections between Ludo has

1336
01:28:38,800 --> 01:28:41,700
Tekken and Semitic or Egyptian
languages.

1337
01:28:42,700 --> 01:28:47,700
That's, that's amazing.
I mean just the fact that you

1338
01:28:47,700 --> 01:28:53,900
have the crossover with the
language is just nuts and and I

1339
01:28:53,900 --> 01:28:58,800
would submit that, you know, I
think you can see you can you

1340
01:28:58,800 --> 01:29:05,400
can even see a little bit of
Egyptian.

1341
01:29:07,800 --> 01:29:11,100
Influencing in the architecture,
if you look at the pyramids in

1342
01:29:11,100 --> 01:29:14,800
South America.
Yeah, I mean it granted their

1343
01:29:14,800 --> 01:29:18,300
step pyramids, but it's still a
pyramid, right?

1344
01:29:18,300 --> 01:29:20,700
I'm entity.
The first Egyptian pyramids were

1345
01:29:20,700 --> 01:29:23,000
step pyramids, right?
Right.

1346
01:29:23,000 --> 01:29:25,700
Absolutely.
And so the fact that we're

1347
01:29:25,700 --> 01:29:29,400
seeing all of this and the fact
that we now, because I think for

1348
01:29:29,400 --> 01:29:36,300
a lot of Mormons we have this
idea that that Lehigh came out

1349
01:29:36,500 --> 01:29:38,800
Out of just this Hebrew bubble,
right?

1350
01:29:38,800 --> 01:29:41,600
That he didn't.
We shouldn't expect to see

1351
01:29:42,200 --> 01:29:45,300
Egyptian things with it with the
exception of reformed Egyptian.

1352
01:29:45,700 --> 01:29:50,500
But once you understand who
Lehigh was, what his profession

1353
01:29:50,500 --> 01:29:56,400
was He's going to be exposed to
a lot of Egyptian things, right?

1354
01:29:56,500 --> 01:30:00,200
And those would be passed on to
his kids, right?

1355
01:30:00,200 --> 01:30:03,900
I can imagine Nephi.
Well actually, we high on those

1356
01:30:03,900 --> 01:30:07,800
Expeditions and trading and in
being a merchant.

1357
01:30:07,900 --> 01:30:11,200
And so when they come here, we
would expect to see the same

1358
01:30:11,200 --> 01:30:14,200
stuff.
Well and it's initially, we

1359
01:30:14,200 --> 01:30:17,200
thought that the Hebrews are
trying to keep themselves

1360
01:30:17,200 --> 01:30:20,400
separate and they would never
use Egyptian names, right?

1361
01:30:20,400 --> 01:30:24,000
Until these prisoner lists.
Another show up, we find out

1362
01:30:24,000 --> 01:30:27,100
that, that's absolutely false.
Yep, you're naming their

1363
01:30:27,100 --> 01:30:28,900
children.
Have the Egyptian arrows gives

1364
01:30:28,900 --> 01:30:31,200
as part of their had become part
of their tradition.

1365
01:30:31,200 --> 01:30:36,400
Not surprisingly.
Let's transition into

1366
01:30:36,400 --> 01:30:40,900
geographical evidences, here we
go.

1367
01:30:41,900 --> 01:30:46,400
The, I want to save the
geological evidence has for

1368
01:30:46,400 --> 01:30:53,100
laughed.
David Palmer put together a list

1369
01:30:53,100 --> 01:30:56,500
of ten essential geography
features from The Book of

1370
01:30:56,500 --> 01:31:02,900
Mormon.
Okay then 15 and I added a 16th

1371
01:31:03,200 --> 01:31:08,000
cultural features that the Book
of Mormon specifically named.

1372
01:31:08,000 --> 01:31:11,300
So if we're looking at a book of
Mormon land potential, it has to

1373
01:31:11,300 --> 01:31:16,700
fit.
All 26 of these parameters,

1374
01:31:17,300 --> 01:31:20,100
right?
The Book of Mormon has over 600

1375
01:31:20,800 --> 01:31:27,300
specific geographical
references, 600 and you have the

1376
01:31:27,300 --> 01:31:29,700
geological references will get
to that.

1377
01:31:30,700 --> 01:31:34,600
So to find so well you know
critical say well there you go.

1378
01:31:34,600 --> 01:31:36,700
Doesn't it painted himself into
a corner?

1379
01:31:36,900 --> 01:31:39,200
There isn't any place that's
going to fit all of that stuff?

1380
01:31:40,300 --> 01:31:45,700
Except that there is so the ten
Geographic, the geographical

1381
01:31:45,700 --> 01:31:49,700
features a narrow neck and
dismiss me fight, Limonite lands

1382
01:31:49,700 --> 01:31:53,300
occupied at least three times as
much as the west coast line.

1383
01:31:53,400 --> 01:31:55,500
So the western coastline is
three times bigger than the east

1384
01:31:55,500 --> 01:31:58,900
coast line and I have the
scriptural references city of

1385
01:31:58,900 --> 01:32:01,800
Nephi was in a Highland.
Valley zarahemla, would be in a

1386
01:32:01,800 --> 01:32:07,400
river base down from Nephi, the
Riverside and flows northward

1387
01:32:07,700 --> 01:32:13,400
through zarahemla.
Being into the East sea, the

1388
01:32:13,400 --> 01:32:17,000
Waters of Mormon, a Highland
Lake of significant size

1389
01:32:17,500 --> 01:32:20,300
zarahemla, would be surrounded
by nephite fortifications.

1390
01:32:20,700 --> 01:32:24,900
And he fights city was beneath
the city of Nephi was three

1391
01:32:24,900 --> 01:32:27,800
weeks, traveled, south from
zarahemla.

1392
01:32:29,600 --> 01:32:32,800
And near the Waters of Mormon,
the city of Bountiful would be

1393
01:32:32,800 --> 01:32:36,300
north of zarahemla and near the
narrow neck of land.

1394
01:32:36,800 --> 01:32:40,400
It was about five days travel
from her own eye, and guarded

1395
01:32:40,400 --> 01:32:44,700
the route to the land northward.
And Kimura was near the Eastern

1396
01:32:44,700 --> 01:32:48,700
Sea, not far from Bountiful
north of the narrow neck of

1397
01:32:48,700 --> 01:32:51,300
land.
That's a lot to keep in mind,

1398
01:32:51,300 --> 01:32:52,000
right?
Yep.

1399
01:32:52,000 --> 01:32:53,900
Cultural features that had to be
City's.

1400
01:32:54,600 --> 01:32:58,900
Large cities Towers agriculture,
metallurgy.

1401
01:32:59,500 --> 01:33:04,000
Formal political city-states
organized, religion idolatry

1402
01:33:04,300 --> 01:33:11,500
crafts, trade writing Weaponry,
astronomy counter systems cement

1403
01:33:12,200 --> 01:33:14,500
Wheels.
They did have wheels.

1404
01:33:14,900 --> 01:33:17,800
We have toys that exist with
that are that are web Wheels.

1405
01:33:18,100 --> 01:33:20,300
Wow.
Of course if they had wooden

1406
01:33:20,300 --> 01:33:26,200
Wheels those are all be gone and
the 16th I had are two distinct,

1407
01:33:26,200 --> 01:33:29,000
two different.
Ancient civilizations that

1408
01:33:29,100 --> 01:33:33,400
Overlap, chronologically and
older civilization dating from

1409
01:33:33,400 --> 01:33:38,600
before, 600 BC.
That that and they have contact

1410
01:33:38,600 --> 01:33:40,200
at the end of the other
civilization in the new

1411
01:33:40,200 --> 01:33:44,600
civilization and that they were
they overlapped geographically.

1412
01:33:45,500 --> 01:33:49,900
Hmm the older civilization was
in the land northward and to the

1413
01:33:49,900 --> 01:33:51,600
South would be the newer
civilization.

1414
01:33:52,800 --> 01:33:56,100
Is there any place in the
Western Hemisphere?

1415
01:33:56,400 --> 01:33:58,900
The satisfies all of those
requirements?

1416
01:33:59,700 --> 01:34:03,500
Yes.
Yes, there is.

1417
01:34:04,300 --> 01:34:07,000
Where is it?
Baseball America.

1418
01:34:08,000 --> 01:34:11,800
So it supports our model which
holds up, so it's a new that

1419
01:34:11,800 --> 01:34:14,100
look at more of it.
The geographical reference is

1420
01:34:14,500 --> 01:34:16,100
better than anybody who's ever
lived.

1421
01:34:16,900 --> 01:34:21,500
They say, he inhaled The Book of
Mormon, he knew of my heart and

1422
01:34:21,500 --> 01:34:24,800
he, and he developed the
theoretical math, just based on

1423
01:34:24,800 --> 01:34:28,600
Book of Mormon descriptions.
And he compared the theoretical

1424
01:34:28,600 --> 01:34:33,500
map to the actual maps and lo
and behold there is and we could

1425
01:34:33,500 --> 01:34:38,500
find we find ancient ruins
corresponding with those

1426
01:34:38,500 --> 01:34:39,600
locations.
Yeah.

1427
01:34:39,600 --> 01:34:44,200
And and the olmecs, which are
would be that ancient civil

1428
01:34:44,200 --> 01:34:48,500
civilization.
Yeah, that they were

1429
01:34:48,500 --> 01:34:52,100
significantly older and much,
much older.

1430
01:34:53,300 --> 01:34:55,000
Yeah.
And and they were they were

1431
01:34:55,000 --> 01:34:59,200
northward now.
I'll never say on this podcast

1432
01:34:59,200 --> 01:35:02,100
where my allegiance lies.
Yeah.

1433
01:35:03,300 --> 01:35:09,800
But for my Heartland Brethren,
let me ask, how do you square

1434
01:35:09,800 --> 01:35:12,600
that with what Joseph said and
it's found in church history.

1435
01:35:12,600 --> 01:35:16,600
I can't remember which volume
writes that letter back to Emma

1436
01:35:16,600 --> 01:35:21,800
as there on Zions camp that
marked and he tells her, I'm

1437
01:35:21,800 --> 01:35:24,700
wandering Across The Plains of
the Nephites.

1438
01:35:24,800 --> 01:35:27,100
Yeah.
Seeing their bones strewn,

1439
01:35:27,100 --> 01:35:30,400
across the plains.
How does that square with with a

1440
01:35:30,400 --> 01:35:36,700
Mesoamerican model then?
The Book of Mormon is, they

1441
01:35:36,700 --> 01:35:42,100
didn't have Google Maps, right?
They didn't have drones.

1442
01:35:42,100 --> 01:35:49,700
They didn't the Book of Mormon
was was a record of the family

1443
01:35:49,900 --> 01:35:55,400
of a family of people that
existed in a much much larger

1444
01:35:56,300 --> 01:35:59,800
cans, right?
They could not have known

1445
01:35:59,800 --> 01:36:07,100
anything about Native Americans
in Alaska or Native Americans in

1446
01:36:07,100 --> 01:36:11,200
Chile.
And here's what we know, Native

1447
01:36:11,200 --> 01:36:14,400
Americans have populated this
entire continent for millennia.

1448
01:36:15,600 --> 01:36:18,600
and the other thing we know the
vast majority of them have the

1449
01:36:18,600 --> 01:36:24,100
same DNA inheritance Asian
right, Asian DNA from Alaska, to

1450
01:36:24,100 --> 01:36:30,700
Chile, all Asians with very few,
very interesting exceptions, So

1451
01:36:30,800 --> 01:36:33,700
then Lehi and his family by the
way they were not Jewish.

1452
01:36:34,600 --> 01:36:36,100
They were from the tribe of
Manasseh.

1453
01:36:37,300 --> 01:36:40,000
That's the first straw man.
That is just dispelled.

1454
01:36:40,400 --> 01:36:44,000
They and the other false
assumption that Latter-Day

1455
01:36:44,000 --> 01:36:48,500
Saints have is that all these
Jared i'ts all died and there

1456
01:36:48,508 --> 01:36:52,000
were none left.
The jadeite record was just as

1457
01:36:52,000 --> 01:36:55,600
limited.
They have the the the the two

1458
01:36:55,900 --> 01:36:59,100
warring factions at the end that
killed exterminated each other.

1459
01:36:59,600 --> 01:37:01,800
But that was in the area of the
Olmec.

1460
01:37:03,100 --> 01:37:05,000
What what I'm believing in
others.

1461
01:37:05,800 --> 01:37:10,300
And so they could not possibly
take into account the

1462
01:37:10,300 --> 01:37:13,100
colonization.
I mean they spread throughout

1463
01:37:13,100 --> 01:37:16,800
the land for how long, how long
would the Jared i'ts in the new

1464
01:37:16,800 --> 01:37:18,800
world?
And let's just assume for the

1465
01:37:18,800 --> 01:37:20,300
sake of discussion when they got
here.

1466
01:37:20,400 --> 01:37:22,100
Ear, which is right after the
flood.

1467
01:37:23,400 --> 01:37:26,800
Let's presume that the flood was
Global, right?

1468
01:37:26,800 --> 01:37:30,600
So did swept the American
continent clean, which is why I

1469
01:37:30,600 --> 01:37:32,900
believe that your diets, when
they brought their barges, they

1470
01:37:32,900 --> 01:37:37,200
had to bring bees, they had to
bring fish because they had to.

1471
01:37:37,500 --> 01:37:39,300
Yeah, that's all that stuff
would have been gone.

1472
01:37:39,700 --> 01:37:44,000
Great, and any case.
So, they get here, this blank

1473
01:37:44,000 --> 01:37:47,400
slate, and they spread, and we
can presume that they.

1474
01:37:47,400 --> 01:37:51,800
Well, I would presume that they
landed in the center of all my

1475
01:37:51,800 --> 01:37:54,300
culture.
Which was near Veracruz southern

1476
01:37:54,300 --> 01:37:59,800
Mexico in the curve of the gulf
right and spread out and clearly

1477
01:38:00,000 --> 01:38:03,100
they spread throughout North and
South America from Alaska to

1478
01:38:03,100 --> 01:38:05,800
Chile.
Okay, is that DNA is all

1479
01:38:05,800 --> 01:38:09,900
throughout the Americans, right?
And they had almost 2000 years

1480
01:38:09,900 --> 01:38:13,900
to do it.
Now you can you tell me that

1481
01:38:13,900 --> 01:38:16,700
ether was aware of all of those
popular even the book of our

1482
01:38:16,700 --> 01:38:18,600
does know what happened to
kick-off, right?

1483
01:38:18,600 --> 01:38:21,100
You know what the true three
ships and Expeditions that took

1484
01:38:21,100 --> 01:38:23,700
off and went heaven knows where
right?

1485
01:38:24,100 --> 01:38:28,300
They don't know that neither the
book of ether nor the nephite

1486
01:38:28,300 --> 01:38:32,200
record can possibly account for
all of these.

1487
01:38:33,400 --> 01:38:37,500
Settlements and where these
people spread to, they don't

1488
01:38:37,500 --> 01:38:42,600
know that and my personal belief
is that.

1489
01:38:43,700 --> 01:38:48,400
There were descendants of Labor
night and potentially of

1490
01:38:48,400 --> 01:38:55,100
Nephites that had gone haga for
one example, who went into the

1491
01:38:55,100 --> 01:38:58,500
north countries, who went beyond
the land.

1492
01:38:58,500 --> 01:39:02,000
Northward, And some have called
this.

1493
01:39:02,000 --> 01:39:06,600
The hinterland idea.
Because we know there were

1494
01:39:06,600 --> 01:39:08,600
Native Americans in North
America.

1495
01:39:09,500 --> 01:39:12,500
We know there were there, you
know, obviously there were there

1496
01:39:12,500 --> 01:39:15,300
when the Europeans arrived and
we know that they were there,

1497
01:39:15,300 --> 01:39:17,100
even before that long before
that.

1498
01:39:19,200 --> 01:39:23,400
So, I don't doubt at all that.
There were descendants of we

1499
01:39:23,500 --> 01:39:26,200
lamanites and effect.
What Joseph, Smith's letter, and

1500
01:39:26,200 --> 01:39:28,200
what his teachings about
self-injury Hamlet.

1501
01:39:28,800 --> 01:39:34,000
Do not identify is exactly who
he was exactly what he was

1502
01:39:34,000 --> 01:39:36,700
doing.
There are exactly when it was,

1503
01:39:37,200 --> 01:39:39,400
we don't know any of that,
right?

1504
01:39:40,300 --> 01:39:45,300
So, I to pin an entire
Geographic model on a very

1505
01:39:46,100 --> 01:39:48,800
ambiguous.
Although, fascinating statement

1506
01:39:49,000 --> 01:39:52,800
Joseph Smith.
I don't think serves us.

1507
01:39:52,800 --> 01:39:57,800
Well, here's my other point.
I mean, and I have a list of

1508
01:39:58,300 --> 01:40:03,100
insurmountable.
Geographic problems,

1509
01:40:03,100 --> 01:40:06,600
insurmountable problems.
With the Heartland model, you

1510
01:40:06,600 --> 01:40:09,700
just you can't get around it.
There's no fixing it.

1511
01:40:10,600 --> 01:40:14,100
Now, on the heels of that every
evidence we could possibly hope

1512
01:40:14,100 --> 01:40:18,300
for exist in mesoamerica,
everything.

1513
01:40:20,200 --> 01:40:23,000
Arguably 90 to 100% of what the
book arrived.

1514
01:40:23,400 --> 01:40:27,100
It's already there, right?
Why are we reluctant to go

1515
01:40:27,100 --> 01:40:29,400
there?
One of the issues is Kimora.

1516
01:40:30,900 --> 01:40:36,000
Right, right.
And the, it's part of the

1517
01:40:36,000 --> 01:40:40,600
traditions of men that have
crept in to LDS culture, Joseph

1518
01:40:40,600 --> 01:40:44,100
Smith Never referred to the Hill
Cumorah as Kimura until the end

1519
01:40:44,100 --> 01:40:47,300
of his life.
And he probably just You just

1520
01:40:47,300 --> 01:40:50,800
called it that, right?
And we already know that there's

1521
01:40:50,800 --> 01:40:55,100
nothing in that Hill.
I mean, you know, it's a Drumlin

1522
01:40:55,100 --> 01:40:56,600
Hill.
It's a pile of gravel pushed.

1523
01:40:56,700 --> 01:40:58,700
Glad glaciers, but nothing
there.

1524
01:40:58,700 --> 01:41:04,100
It's it's a dead end besides,
which, in Mormon 6:6.

1525
01:41:04,200 --> 01:41:07,400
Mormon says, I'm getting old.
I'm going to take all of these

1526
01:41:07,400 --> 01:41:11,400
records, all of them, and I'm
going to hide them up in Kimura.

1527
01:41:12,800 --> 01:41:16,800
Which was the place of the last
great battle, right?

1528
01:41:17,100 --> 01:41:20,100
- I'm not hide them all up, so
that lame and Ice don't get

1529
01:41:20,100 --> 01:41:23,200
them.
Except for these plates, these

1530
01:41:23,200 --> 01:41:26,600
few plates which I'm going to
give tomorrow night and then he

1531
01:41:26,600 --> 01:41:30,300
left.
Morgan dies amarone takes those

1532
01:41:30,300 --> 01:41:36,900
plates and leaves, and he
wanders around for 36 years, by

1533
01:41:36,900 --> 01:41:40,600
himself fleeing because the
lamanites are still hunting,

1534
01:41:41,200 --> 01:41:44,600
some of them escaped, south or
hunted down moroni's, and say,

1535
01:41:44,600 --> 01:41:49,600
where he But for 36 years, he
took these little planes where

1536
01:41:49,600 --> 01:41:54,900
could he have gone in 36 years
all over all, he could have gone

1537
01:41:54,900 --> 01:41:58,900
anywhere and where did he go?
Ultimately to the place.

1538
01:41:58,900 --> 01:42:02,700
God knew Joseph Smith would be
fourteen hundred years later,

1539
01:42:02,900 --> 01:42:06,700
right?
1,500 1,400 years later and we

1540
01:42:06,700 --> 01:42:08,700
know that that's possible
because it has been done.

1541
01:42:10,200 --> 01:42:13,100
So, mace American is think that
the Camorra, we're all the

1542
01:42:13,108 --> 01:42:15,800
records are or the tuxtla
mountains.

1543
01:42:15,900 --> 01:42:21,600
It's in southern Mexico, okay?
Near very near Veracruz which

1544
01:42:21,600 --> 01:42:26,300
was which was the hill Rama, the
great and last battle of the, of

1545
01:42:26,300 --> 01:42:29,400
the Jerry rights as well.
Ironic that those two cultures

1546
01:42:29,400 --> 01:42:31,800
should meet their demise in the
same place and guess what?

1547
01:42:31,800 --> 01:42:34,100
That is the heart of Olmec
civilization.

1548
01:42:35,300 --> 01:42:37,600
Right?
And maybe the lab northward for

1549
01:42:37,600 --> 01:42:39,400
the mice.
Do we do?

1550
01:42:39,400 --> 01:42:47,900
We find like massive amounts of
arrowheads or spears around that

1551
01:42:47,900 --> 01:42:51,200
area that would lend itself to
this idea of a massive battle

1552
01:42:52,400 --> 01:42:56,900
that I can't address directly.
We do know that Mayan culture is

1553
01:42:56,900 --> 01:43:01,100
full of Weaponry, right?
Towards and Senators curved

1554
01:43:01,100 --> 01:43:04,700
swords they had armor.
Now it's not like we In the

1555
01:43:04,700 --> 01:43:09,100
Knights of the Round Table, has
sure your kind of city that

1556
01:43:09,100 --> 01:43:12,500
obsidian weapons, which were
sharper than steel.

1557
01:43:12,900 --> 01:43:15,200
Yep.
And it could be stained with

1558
01:43:15,200 --> 01:43:19,000
blood, right?
I can't, I need like yard swords

1559
01:43:19,000 --> 01:43:21,100
are stained with blood, right?
Right.

1560
01:43:21,100 --> 01:43:23,200
How do you sustain how do you
sustain steel?

1561
01:43:23,200 --> 01:43:26,600
You know that any case they had
curved swords and they had all

1562
01:43:26,600 --> 01:43:30,300
of those things and people will
we'll take issue.

1563
01:43:30,300 --> 01:43:33,400
I mean they had but most of
their Weaponry was not what we

1564
01:43:33,400 --> 01:43:36,100
imagined.
It was most likely, right?

1565
01:43:36,100 --> 01:43:40,400
But yes, they have loads yet.
Loads of evidence and evidence

1566
01:43:40,400 --> 01:43:42,600
of exterminate Warfare of
extermination.

1567
01:43:42,900 --> 01:43:46,600
It was happening there a lot
loads of evidence for it.

1568
01:43:47,600 --> 01:43:52,500
So I let me there the list of
insurmountable geographical

1569
01:43:53,300 --> 01:44:04,700
problems that the heart ladders
have to address Hey golf cannot

1570
01:44:04,700 --> 01:44:07,400
as its claim navigate from the
Great Lakes to the ocean.

1571
01:44:08,400 --> 01:44:10,300
That's where they think kickoff
went well, hey golf.

1572
01:44:10,700 --> 01:44:13,000
He departed from the western
shore.

1573
01:44:14,400 --> 01:44:16,700
And there was no way to reverse
the Great Lakes.

1574
01:44:16,900 --> 01:44:18,700
Then right?
We didn't have.

1575
01:44:18,700 --> 01:44:23,300
That was not a possibility.
To the Mississippi River, which

1576
01:44:23,300 --> 01:44:28,600
they say, is the sidon flows
north to south is the opposite

1577
01:44:28,600 --> 01:44:32,100
direction is that's sidon river
flows.

1578
01:44:33,400 --> 01:44:37,600
The seidman river should empty
into the Seas, which are the

1579
01:44:37,608 --> 01:44:40,500
Great Lakes and the Heartland
model, but it flows to the Gulf

1580
01:44:40,500 --> 01:44:44,800
of Mexico away from the seeds,
the Heartland model uses.

1581
01:44:44,800 --> 01:44:48,300
The Ohio river at the geographic
feature, separating the land of

1582
01:44:48,300 --> 01:44:50,900
Nephi from the land of
zarahemla, while the Book of

1583
01:44:50,900 --> 01:44:53,500
Mormon indicates that, that
separating feature was a narrow

1584
01:44:53,500 --> 01:44:56,600
strip of wilderness, Not a
river.

1585
01:44:58,400 --> 01:45:01,800
The Heartland model has the
lounge Bountiful southeast of

1586
01:45:01,800 --> 01:45:04,200
zarahemla.
The Book of Mormon has it

1587
01:45:04,200 --> 01:45:09,700
northward The land of the first
inheritance should be on the

1588
01:45:09,700 --> 01:45:12,200
west Sea West from the land of
Nephi.

1589
01:45:12,600 --> 01:45:16,000
The Heartland model places, it
south of Aladdin ephi on the

1590
01:45:16,000 --> 01:45:18,400
Gulf of Mexico that is not even
one of the season.

1591
01:45:21,000 --> 01:45:27,300
And that the Hill Cumorah.
Is south of the narrow neck of

1592
01:45:27,300 --> 01:45:29,700
land.
As they say, in the Heartland

1593
01:45:29,700 --> 01:45:32,600
model, when the Book of Mormon
says that they Hill Cumorah is

1594
01:45:32,600 --> 01:45:35,500
north of the Isthmus of the
narrow neck of land.

1595
01:45:36,100 --> 01:45:43,100
There are those are some pretty
significant issues that the

1596
01:45:43,100 --> 01:45:45,700
Heartland model does not match
the known, archaeology the

1597
01:45:45,700 --> 01:45:50,700
Hopewell area that he wishes to
make into the nephite that the

1598
01:45:50,700 --> 01:45:54,000
chronology of that and the
archaeological and cultural.

1599
01:45:54,100 --> 01:45:57,900
Cyril issues don't line up with
certainly not as well as The

1600
01:45:57,900 --> 01:45:58,500
Vine.
By the way.

1601
01:45:58,500 --> 01:46:02,100
When we talk about the Mayan, we
have to recognize that the mind

1602
01:46:02,100 --> 01:46:04,400
was his massive culture.
Sure.

1603
01:46:04,700 --> 01:46:08,500
That the Book of Mormon peoples
are a subset of that much larger

1604
01:46:08,500 --> 01:46:10,400
culture, which explains a lot of
things.

1605
01:46:11,100 --> 01:46:13,800
How the lamanites were
constantly, outnumbering the

1606
01:46:13,800 --> 01:46:16,600
Nephites.
Yeah, the lamanites were

1607
01:46:16,600 --> 01:46:19,200
recruiting from the Native
populations that had been there

1608
01:46:19,200 --> 01:46:24,000
all along it.
Also explains how skin tone

1609
01:46:24,200 --> 01:46:27,900
Could change sure the flavor,
the level where intermarrying

1610
01:46:27,900 --> 01:46:30,300
outside of the Hebrew tradition
there.

1611
01:46:30,300 --> 01:46:32,900
Intermarrying with the natives
who were the Native Asians,

1612
01:46:33,400 --> 01:46:37,600
right would take on a darker,
Hue within a generation, right?

1613
01:46:37,700 --> 01:46:40,900
I mean, what's not a big deal.
That's a very interesting, very

1614
01:46:40,900 --> 01:46:42,900
interesting.
Probably it supports the text.

1615
01:46:43,400 --> 01:46:48,100
Yeah.
So and nobody knows for sure.

1616
01:46:48,700 --> 01:46:51,500
And it would be a delightful
surprise to find some, you know,

1617
01:46:52,200 --> 01:46:55,300
if I was here written on Summit.
It's scription of my Palmyra,

1618
01:46:55,300 --> 01:47:00,300
that would be cool, but not.
But for now, I, the, the

1619
01:47:00,300 --> 01:47:07,100
evidence unquestionably, the
archaeological cultural textual,

1620
01:47:07,100 --> 01:47:11,000
evidence favors, the
Mesoamerican civilizations.

1621
01:47:11,000 --> 01:47:12,900
It's all there and it's been
there all day.

1622
01:47:13,200 --> 01:47:14,100
And what's cool?
Is it?

1623
01:47:14,100 --> 01:47:16,900
Joseph Smith and his people and
his friends.

1624
01:47:17,400 --> 01:47:20,500
They didn't know a darn thing.
Nobody knew anything about my

1625
01:47:20,500 --> 01:47:26,200
right until the Stevens account
in 41, which one it was?

1626
01:47:26,200 --> 01:47:29,100
When Joseph Smith read it?
You'll man, this could be a book

1627
01:47:29,100 --> 01:47:31,800
of word stuff.
He was very excited about that,

1628
01:47:31,800 --> 01:47:37,900
but that was the first real.
Scholarly type reference to my

1629
01:47:37,900 --> 01:47:39,700
and Mesoamerican culture.
Hmm.

1630
01:47:40,000 --> 01:47:44,000
Yeah.
Do you have time for this?

1631
01:47:44,300 --> 01:47:48,400
Do do, I, we got all the time in
the world can if you logical.

1632
01:47:49,200 --> 01:47:54,500
And this is a new approach
geological evidences for the

1633
01:47:54,500 --> 01:47:59,100
Book of Mormon.
In the Book of Mormon in 3rd

1634
01:47:59,100 --> 01:48:02,500
Nephi chapters 8.
And then chapter 10 specifically

1635
01:48:03,000 --> 01:48:08,100
it describes very specific
geological events that destroyed

1636
01:48:08,100 --> 01:48:11,200
these cities.
Simultaneous, volcanic,

1637
01:48:11,200 --> 01:48:15,200
eruptions and earthquakes in the
first half of the century and

1638
01:48:15,200 --> 01:48:20,500
submerged ruins.
If that happened at 30 a.d.,

1639
01:48:21,000 --> 01:48:24,500
there should be geological
evidence of volcanic eruptions,

1640
01:48:24,700 --> 01:48:29,300
sure and destroyed cities, and,
and tsunami and earthquake

1641
01:48:29,300 --> 01:48:34,300
events and remains of those
cities that that exists.

1642
01:48:35,200 --> 01:48:38,500
It just so happens.
This is, this has one of my

1643
01:48:38,500 --> 01:48:44,700
favorite book of Mormon
archaeological treatments It's

1644
01:48:44,700 --> 01:48:49,900
called the geology of the Book
of Mormon written by Jerry

1645
01:48:49,900 --> 01:48:53,000
Grover.
Who is a professional geologist?

1646
01:48:53,000 --> 01:48:55,600
I know who did Grover is, do
you?

1647
01:48:55,800 --> 01:48:58,100
I said a good thing is a very
good thing.

1648
01:48:58,100 --> 01:49:00,900
I like, I've never I've never
met him right.

1649
01:49:00,900 --> 01:49:02,900
When I first saw this book.
I'm like, well, I have to have

1650
01:49:02,900 --> 01:49:04,900
this and went on to Amazon to
buy a copy.

1651
01:49:05,500 --> 01:49:10,300
And one used copy for like $400
like man, I'm never going to own

1652
01:49:10,300 --> 01:49:12,700
that and then I realized what
Jerry has done.

1653
01:49:13,600 --> 01:49:17,500
He's made it free.
You go to his website and

1654
01:49:17,500 --> 01:49:20,400
download it for free for colored
PDF.

1655
01:49:20,800 --> 01:49:25,000
So here's my copy.
I'll print it out and marked up

1656
01:49:26,900 --> 01:49:29,100
nice.
It is amazing.

1657
01:49:30,200 --> 01:49:34,300
Amazing.
So what he did he used to just

1658
01:49:34,300 --> 01:49:37,400
because it was the most commonly
academically accepted model, he

1659
01:49:37,400 --> 01:49:40,600
took the Sorensen model.
The meso America model and

1660
01:49:40,600 --> 01:49:42,700
compared it against known
geologic events.

1661
01:49:44,200 --> 01:49:46,600
I know this is a professional
John, it's pretty technical

1662
01:49:47,200 --> 01:49:50,900
right?
But he starts with the

1663
01:49:50,900 --> 01:49:57,900
describing the destruction of
these 17 cities zarahemla burned

1664
01:49:57,900 --> 01:50:01,200
with fire Maroni cause to be
sunk in the depths of the sea.

1665
01:50:01,200 --> 01:50:06,600
Moroni was a an establishment
along fish, the Eastern Shore.

1666
01:50:07,700 --> 01:50:10,800
Would have been a tsunami.
Is there a fault line that runs

1667
01:50:10,800 --> 01:50:12,900
along there?
That would cause that slip fault

1668
01:50:12,900 --> 01:50:20,500
cause it's an army, Bingo.
Yes, That occurred

1669
01:50:20,500 --> 01:50:25,600
simultaneously with a volcanic,
eruption to the North in 30

1670
01:50:25,600 --> 01:50:28,700
a.d., the identifies, the
volcano.

1671
01:50:30,000 --> 01:50:34,900
Really, yes, yes, yes.
Well, I Moroni hell I have

1672
01:50:34,900 --> 01:50:37,700
covered with Earth was buried by
some slide last night.

1673
01:50:38,700 --> 01:50:41,700
Gilgal I had caused to be sunk
in the inhabitants buried in the

1674
01:50:41,700 --> 01:50:44,300
depths of the earth.
Let's see.

1675
01:50:44,700 --> 01:50:46,900
Now, how do we know all this?
Again, they didn't have Google

1676
01:50:46,900 --> 01:50:47,900
Maps.
They didn't have news or

1677
01:50:47,907 --> 01:50:51,100
Wireless anything in 3510.
It's Jesus.

1678
01:50:51,100 --> 01:50:53,300
Who's telling them what has
happened, right?

1679
01:50:53,300 --> 01:50:56,400
He's recounting.
What, what if what?

1680
01:50:56,400 --> 01:50:58,800
What's wrong?
I hot Malcolm and Jerusalem.

1681
01:50:59,000 --> 01:51:02,200
I have caused Waters.
Have I caused a come up in the

1682
01:51:02,200 --> 01:51:06,000
stead thereof and we know that
those are all on the shores of

1683
01:51:06,000 --> 01:51:09,600
the waters, Mormon, Which we've
already taught that's good.

1684
01:51:09,700 --> 01:51:11,300
It's my favorite one Lake
atitlan.

1685
01:51:12,000 --> 01:51:14,000
Have a friend who's raised in
Guatemala and you used to

1686
01:51:14,000 --> 01:51:18,400
swimming at Lake all the time,
really the Waters of Mormon and

1687
01:51:18,400 --> 01:51:23,300
yeah beneath the waves is this
ancient Mayan city called some

1688
01:51:23,300 --> 01:51:26,800
of your job or something like
that city of guardium be and

1689
01:51:26,800 --> 01:51:30,800
granuloma Jacob, who I have
caused to be sunk made the hills

1690
01:51:30,800 --> 01:51:35,700
of Allison places thereof Jacob
Lew got to be burned with fire

1691
01:51:36,100 --> 01:51:38,900
city of lame.
And Josh Gad have cause to be

1692
01:51:38,900 --> 01:51:42,500
burned with fire.
I did say I did send down fire

1693
01:51:42,700 --> 01:51:45,600
and Destroy them.
That's a very specific fire.

1694
01:51:45,900 --> 01:51:51,000
Yeah, it is right.
So, with his lens is geographic,

1695
01:51:51,000 --> 01:51:55,100
geological lands, he identified.
What would cause these things

1696
01:51:55,100 --> 01:51:58,500
geological events.
Most of them would be volcanic

1697
01:51:58,500 --> 01:52:02,300
in nature and earthquakes.
And though, all these cities

1698
01:52:02,300 --> 01:52:08,600
were the lad northward.
Except for Jerusalem, Malcolm

1699
01:52:08,600 --> 01:52:14,400
and on Ayah which were on the
waters, Mormon and the lake

1700
01:52:14,400 --> 01:52:17,200
atitlan.
Does not have an outlet.

1701
01:52:18,400 --> 01:52:19,700
Okay, look.
Alright.

1702
01:52:19,700 --> 01:52:22,100
So the waters rise, you're a big
trouble because it doesn't go

1703
01:52:22,100 --> 01:52:24,600
anywhere.
It's one of the deepest lake in

1704
01:52:24,600 --> 01:52:30,800
Guatemala or stuff like that.
So let me cut to the chase here.

1705
01:52:33,900 --> 01:52:38,500
He identifies any yes pictures
and photographs everything here?

1706
01:52:40,300 --> 01:52:43,500
Whose fault segment, satisfies.
All the necessary conditions

1707
01:52:43,500 --> 01:52:46,600
given in the Book of Mormon, as
the primary earthquake fault,

1708
01:52:46,600 --> 01:52:50,000
system me as a photograph of it
runs right along the beer.

1709
01:52:50,000 --> 01:52:53,600
Crews are up the Gulf of Mexico,
part of it, on land of part of

1710
01:52:53,600 --> 01:52:59,500
it in the Gulf itself.
It's it is a strike-slip fault

1711
01:52:59,500 --> 01:53:01,800
which typically generates
surface, ruptures fractures and

1712
01:53:01,800 --> 01:53:05,400
subside ins meaning the land
has.

1713
01:53:05,400 --> 01:53:07,800
Yeah.
It is located in the land

1714
01:53:07,800 --> 01:53:10,900
northward where the worst damage
occurred part of the fault

1715
01:53:10,900 --> 01:53:14,000
segment is in the Land, South or
any could cause damage in the

1716
01:53:14,000 --> 01:53:18,000
Land South or did is located on
an adjacent, on an adjacent, to

1717
01:53:18,000 --> 01:53:21,800
the coastal plains, it occurs in
areas that had significant

1718
01:53:21,800 --> 01:53:28,300
population at the time.
The Veracruz fault system also

1719
01:53:28,300 --> 01:53:30,700
satisfied, most of the perfect
preferential conditions.

1720
01:53:31,100 --> 01:53:34,600
It has a major volcanoes sitting
directly on the fault system.

1721
01:53:35,000 --> 01:53:38,200
The volcano San Martín it occurs
within parts of the land,

1722
01:53:38,200 --> 01:53:41,600
Bountiful part of the fault
system sits under the water in

1723
01:53:41,600 --> 01:53:45,200
the Gulf of Mexico and could
potentially generate tsunami.

1724
01:53:46,200 --> 01:53:48,200
It possibly could cause a fixed
triggering.

1725
01:53:48,200 --> 01:53:52,400
Some sightings in the city of
Verona, there are five, there

1726
01:53:52,400 --> 01:53:56,100
are major rivers that some lakes
and lagoons on or adjacent to

1727
01:53:56,100 --> 01:53:59,000
the fault which could quickly
feel areas of societies.

1728
01:54:00,500 --> 01:54:05,800
It's beautiful fit and and he
and you can tell geological

1729
01:54:05,800 --> 01:54:09,200
studies when those volcanoes
erupted, the San Martín erupted

1730
01:54:09,200 --> 01:54:14,700
around, 30 a.d., wow.
With significant volcanic

1731
01:54:15,200 --> 01:54:17,200
Fallout that we learned from
Mount st.

1732
01:54:17,200 --> 01:54:22,700
Helens, it would bury anything
within a 30-mile radius or

1733
01:54:22,700 --> 01:54:25,600
something like that.
Just the pyroclastic flow.

1734
01:54:25,600 --> 01:54:27,700
Exactly.
The pyroclastic flow.

1735
01:54:32,000 --> 01:54:36,800
Kunai, the city of Verona in the
end, he has pictures of the maps

1736
01:54:36,800 --> 01:54:39,500
here does not say.
With the end, does not sit

1737
01:54:39,500 --> 01:54:43,200
within the anticipated area of
directors grexit, sightings but

1738
01:54:43,200 --> 01:54:46,800
is located in an area of soils,
susceptible to earthquake,

1739
01:54:46,800 --> 01:54:51,000
amplification of 1.6 points on
the Mercalli intensity scale,

1740
01:54:51,700 --> 01:54:55,200
being 43 km from the intensity
level. 8 area would put it in

1741
01:54:55,208 --> 01:54:57,900
the intensity level 7 area and
by addition to the amplification

1742
01:54:57,900 --> 01:55:01,700
Factor 48.6 because of the
susceptible soils, look, Both

1743
01:55:01,700 --> 01:55:04,000
faction could also be
contributing factor to the

1744
01:55:04,000 --> 01:55:08,700
subsidence anyway, while Samsung
accounts for Moroni being sucked

1745
01:55:08,700 --> 01:55:14,300
out, and then Jerusalem sinking.
They got that.

1746
01:55:14,300 --> 01:55:18,900
I just love that.
If you look up, there's a

1747
01:55:18,900 --> 01:55:27,600
wonderful Advertisement for for
people visiting Guatemala.

1748
01:55:28,100 --> 01:55:31,400
And it shows, scuba divers
swimming around and the sunken

1749
01:55:31,400 --> 01:55:36,100
Mayan ruin and they got that
long, but I just, I think is so

1750
01:55:36,100 --> 01:55:38,500
cool.
So interesting to get down there

1751
01:55:38,500 --> 01:55:40,600
and see what kind of artifacts
are down there.

1752
01:55:41,900 --> 01:55:47,900
Yeah, burn cities.
These would be within it.

1753
01:55:47,900 --> 01:55:56,500
Was he put it?
And we, he fills a map and all

1754
01:55:56,500 --> 01:55:58,900
of these cities be would be
within the area of the

1755
01:55:58,900 --> 01:56:02,900
iconoclastic, flow of the San
Martín eruption.

1756
01:56:04,100 --> 01:56:06,300
Then we get to the city
Bountiful where the temple was

1757
01:56:07,200 --> 01:56:09,900
and people gathered about of all
about evil did not suffer.

1758
01:56:09,900 --> 01:56:13,400
The destructor was causing these
other areas, but they could see

1759
01:56:13,400 --> 01:56:15,700
from the temple about across the
river.

1760
01:56:16,200 --> 01:56:19,800
Great destruction and of people.
He's found that place.

1761
01:56:22,400 --> 01:56:24,900
The temple in the land of
Bountiful is not noteworthy

1762
01:56:24,900 --> 01:56:26,800
because of the description of
its destruction, but is

1763
01:56:26,800 --> 01:56:29,400
noteworthy because it was
apparently not destroyed.

1764
01:56:29,800 --> 01:56:32,900
It was also situated in a
geographic position such that

1765
01:56:32,900 --> 01:56:35,300
the people were observing the
great and marvelous change that

1766
01:56:35,300 --> 01:56:40,600
had taken place nearby, the
Locale also contained or was

1767
01:56:40,600 --> 01:56:44,300
immediately adjacent to a much
larger population just by Word

1768
01:56:44,300 --> 01:56:47,500
of Mouth. 25 people hundred
gather 2500 people got it.

1769
01:56:48,300 --> 01:56:51,700
The temple was also adjacent to
some type of body of water 35

1770
01:56:51,700 --> 01:56:56,800
1910, the sorts of model
identifies.

1771
01:56:56,800 --> 01:56:59,600
The city Bonneville is being in
the area of the current city of

1772
01:56:59,600 --> 01:57:04,000
tala, which is located on the
West Bank of the tunnel a river

1773
01:57:04,400 --> 01:57:07,100
prior to its discharging into
the Gulf of Mexico.

1774
01:57:07,100 --> 01:57:12,800
So it's Coastal This location
does lie within the McCauley's

1775
01:57:12,800 --> 01:57:16,600
onate area of the San Martín.
However, it is located on a

1776
01:57:16,608 --> 01:57:21,900
stable Bedrock really so that if
it was unstable Bedrock,

1777
01:57:21,900 --> 01:57:24,800
consisting of conglomerate
sandstone and stilted for so

1778
01:57:24,800 --> 01:57:27,400
formations which may have
dampened surface.

1779
01:57:27,400 --> 01:57:30,100
Oscillations somewhat limiting
the earthquake damage

1780
01:57:30,600 --> 01:57:35,100
importantly directly across the
river from Bountiful is an

1781
01:57:35,100 --> 01:57:38,200
entirely different seismic
situation as the soils and

1782
01:57:38,200 --> 01:57:40,800
sediments.
Our Marsh deposits and are

1783
01:57:40,800 --> 01:57:43,600
extremely susceptible to
Amplified, ground shaking and

1784
01:57:43,600 --> 01:57:46,500
potential.
Liquefaction till even explains

1785
01:57:46,500 --> 01:57:55,400
why bottles Preserve in the
adjacent places weren't so Wow,

1786
01:57:55,700 --> 01:58:01,000
I love this approach become more
scientific in regard to the

1787
01:58:01,000 --> 01:58:05,700
geology, right?
Even a matches it up to specific

1788
01:58:05,700 --> 01:58:08,900
Book of Mormon cities in sight.
Now, the majority of them that

1789
01:58:08,900 --> 01:58:12,900
were buried near San Martín in
the land, north were land

1790
01:58:12,900 --> 01:58:15,600
northward.
We don't have to dig those out

1791
01:58:16,300 --> 01:58:18,600
of many, many meters of, I kind
of classic.

1792
01:58:19,300 --> 01:58:20,700
I say that right?
Not a kind of class.

1793
01:58:20,700 --> 01:58:22,800
I, yeah, I kind of classic.
Whoa.

1794
01:58:22,800 --> 01:58:24,600
Yeah.
A classic.

1795
01:58:24,600 --> 01:58:28,500
Well, yeah.
So he concludes says the swords

1796
01:58:28,500 --> 01:58:31,200
and maces American.
Geographic model is accurately

1797
01:58:31,200 --> 01:58:35,800
supported by the non geological
data, which is very specific.

1798
01:58:36,600 --> 01:58:39,500
The cities that were burned, the
cities that were submerged, the

1799
01:58:39,500 --> 01:58:43,200
cities that were swept out to
sea the cities that were spared

1800
01:58:43,500 --> 01:58:47,000
all fit.
How I mean the fact that would

1801
01:58:47,000 --> 01:58:50,600
fit the geographical
requirements, the cultural

1802
01:58:50,600 --> 01:58:55,800
requirements and the geological
requirements is mind-boggling,

1803
01:58:56,100 --> 01:58:59,000
right?
And it takes a lot of takes, a

1804
01:58:59,008 --> 01:59:01,600
lot of put that stuff together
to get there.

1805
01:59:01,600 --> 01:59:05,500
But so let me ask you this Ken,
are you aware of any?

1806
01:59:06,700 --> 01:59:09,200
Oral tradition.
That the Maya might have about

1807
01:59:09,200 --> 01:59:12,800
that time of Destruction, right?
I mean, this is the kind of

1808
01:59:12,800 --> 01:59:15,900
thing that should leave societal
scars, right?

1809
01:59:18,300 --> 01:59:20,200
I don't.
Okay.

1810
01:59:23,000 --> 01:59:26,700
There are some, but once again
the problem is it's an old

1811
01:59:26,700 --> 01:59:31,600
tradition that would be 2,000
years old and that was disrupted

1812
01:59:31,800 --> 01:59:35,100
culturally by The Conquistadors
and others who came in and

1813
01:59:35,100 --> 01:59:38,000
basically destroyed their
culture, right?

1814
01:59:39,500 --> 01:59:44,100
They intentionally erased the
memory of the Mayan culture

1815
01:59:44,100 --> 01:59:47,600
because it was by that time at
least Pagan Rite.

1816
01:59:47,600 --> 01:59:50,100
And we'll during the time of the
Nephites, all the surrounding

1817
01:59:50,300 --> 01:59:52,900
they were all Pagan, right?
Yeah.

1818
01:59:55,000 --> 01:59:56,900
Okay.
So we've covered archaeological

1819
01:59:57,000 --> 02:00:00,500
linguistic geographical
geological.

1820
02:00:00,500 --> 02:00:02,700
You said there was one more.
Which one is that one?

1821
02:00:03,000 --> 02:00:05,800
I think we got all sadly.
Let me see.

1822
02:00:06,300 --> 02:00:08,600
So we had go into the
geographical.

1823
02:00:08,800 --> 02:00:12,600
Geological cultural linguistic
and archaeological.

1824
02:00:12,900 --> 02:00:15,100
Okay, we we did Cover cultural
then.

1825
02:00:15,600 --> 02:00:17,900
Yeah.
Alright, we did Cover Mall,

1826
02:00:18,300 --> 02:00:20,700
dude.
This has been so fascinating and

1827
02:00:20,700 --> 02:00:29,300
and again I don't care which
model somebody espouse, right?

1828
02:00:29,400 --> 02:00:31,600
As long as they're a believer,
in the Book of Mormon, we can

1829
02:00:31,600 --> 02:00:34,300
argue about this amongst
ourselves, although, it's fun.

1830
02:00:34,300 --> 02:00:37,600
I have friends who are DieHard.
Heart, ladders, and we just get

1831
02:00:37,600 --> 02:00:39,800
together.
And we laugh, we had the best

1832
02:00:39,800 --> 02:00:41,600
time.
We don't pull punches.

1833
02:00:41,600 --> 02:00:45,200
We had it, but we in it.
Make you know what it does.

1834
02:00:45,200 --> 02:00:49,900
It causes each of us to go back
to the source.

1835
02:00:50,200 --> 02:00:55,300
Yep, absolutely.
And and so there there's there's

1836
02:00:55,400 --> 02:01:03,100
Times to this debate, right?
One is the in-house argument,

1837
02:01:03,100 --> 02:01:04,200
right?
Where we're like.

1838
02:01:04,200 --> 02:01:06,000
No, it happened here.
No, it happened.

1839
02:01:06,000 --> 02:01:09,600
Here, that's cool, right?
Because that's steel, sharpening

1840
02:01:09,600 --> 02:01:15,200
steel.
But I think that in having these

1841
02:01:15,200 --> 02:01:21,500
conversations, the other thing
it can do is bolster this idea

1842
02:01:21,500 --> 02:01:23,300
that?
No no there's history here.

1843
02:01:23,600 --> 02:01:29,900
There is scientifical scientific
provable history that lends

1844
02:01:29,900 --> 02:01:35,300
Credence and I would say pretty
much a level of certainty that

1845
02:01:35,300 --> 02:01:39,800
the Book of Mormon is a
historical document, as well as

1846
02:01:39,800 --> 02:01:43,500
a spiritual spiritual texts.
Yeah. well, that's that's where

1847
02:01:43,500 --> 02:01:50,000
I'm at and and once we get to
that point We can have our

1848
02:01:50,000 --> 02:01:52,800
disagreement, you know, people
can have their disagreements all

1849
02:01:52,800 --> 02:01:55,200
day long about where it took
place.

1850
02:01:56,100 --> 02:01:59,500
It's no fun for me to talk with
people who I agree with about

1851
02:01:59,500 --> 02:02:11,300
everything.
What are you learn it for 30

1852
02:02:11,300 --> 02:02:15,100
years?
And he said I made a mistake and

1853
02:02:15,100 --> 02:02:18,100
I'm a heart ladder.
I wanted him to go on because

1854
02:02:18,100 --> 02:02:21,000
he's no dummy, right?
Is very well-read.

1855
02:02:21,500 --> 02:02:25,100
I want to know what flipping and
he kind of LED on.

1856
02:02:25,500 --> 02:02:30,300
He says he holds the highest
importance what Joseph Smith

1857
02:02:30,300 --> 02:02:33,100
said right?
All right and of course the

1858
02:02:33,100 --> 02:02:36,700
issue with that is much of what
he said is second-hand through

1859
02:02:36,700 --> 02:02:40,000
others like the whole science
camp and the Zelfs and I mean he

1860
02:02:40,000 --> 02:02:42,600
wrote the letter to his wife but
there's a lot of things that he

1861
02:02:42,700 --> 02:02:46,100
didn't say where Wilford
Woodruff another's, inserted

1862
02:02:46,300 --> 02:02:51,400
their own and as a practicing
attorney, they should know that

1863
02:02:51,400 --> 02:02:54,300
people do that.
Yeah, not intentionally, they

1864
02:02:54,300 --> 02:02:57,000
just do.
But right, right.

1865
02:02:57,100 --> 02:03:01,300
Well, and the other thing it the
Heartland model appeals to

1866
02:03:01,300 --> 02:03:06,000
Americans.
You sure the promised land is

1867
02:03:06,200 --> 02:03:07,800
USA?
Of course.

1868
02:03:07,800 --> 02:03:10,600
The Mexicans will say the
promised land is Mexico.

1869
02:03:10,900 --> 02:03:14,900
The peruvians was a the promised
land as Peru, but the fact is

1870
02:03:15,000 --> 02:03:18,600
they all Joseph Smith Brigham,
Young and others believe that

1871
02:03:18,600 --> 02:03:22,300
the promised land was the
American, the hemisphere right

1872
02:03:22,300 --> 02:03:25,600
hemispheric.
Was it a nation per se, right?

1873
02:03:25,600 --> 02:03:28,100
Exactly another.
They had they believe in the

1874
02:03:28,100 --> 02:03:31,100
hemispheric model right?
To me, that's all of us when we

1875
02:03:31,100 --> 02:03:33,600
first read it.
Uh, Panama is a narrow neck of

1876
02:03:33,800 --> 02:03:34,800
It right.
Yeah.

1877
02:03:34,800 --> 02:03:37,300
Well, south of the South
America, the landlords of North

1878
02:03:37,300 --> 02:03:39,200
America.
But that just completely

1879
02:03:39,200 --> 02:03:43,200
implausible, I guess the main
thing that I want people to take

1880
02:03:43,200 --> 02:03:49,400
away from from this episode, is
that Not only should you expect

1881
02:03:49,400 --> 02:03:56,700
to find significant evidences of
the Book of Mormon there are

1882
02:03:57,300 --> 02:04:00,400
historical.
Evidences of the Book of Mormon

1883
02:04:00,400 --> 02:04:04,200
that are substantial and as time
goes along.

1884
02:04:05,500 --> 02:04:09,700
We seem to to be hitting more
and more those bullseye

1885
02:04:09,800 --> 02:04:11,600
bullseye.
We are, we are.

1886
02:04:11,700 --> 02:04:16,500
And as time goes along, I think
we're going to come to a point

1887
02:04:16,500 --> 02:04:18,900
to where there's going to have
to be some sort of Reckoning

1888
02:04:19,500 --> 02:04:23,600
where where the archaeologists
are going to be forced to take a

1889
02:04:23,608 --> 02:04:30,300
look at this new information and
think about things in a much

1890
02:04:31,100 --> 02:04:36,000
more open way.
I maybe I'm just a pessimist but

1891
02:04:36,000 --> 02:04:38,900
I don't believe that's ever
going to happen before Christ

1892
02:04:38,900 --> 02:04:44,100
comes I you know, I I have
enough friends from my time back

1893
02:04:44,100 --> 02:04:47,800
East because of all the work I
did with some archaeologists

1894
02:04:47,800 --> 02:04:50,600
that I have hope.
I think the new generation

1895
02:04:50,600 --> 02:04:55,300
coming up is understanding that
there are some significant holes

1896
02:04:55,300 --> 02:04:58,100
that need to be filled in.
Now, how they fill that in?

1897
02:04:58,700 --> 02:05:01,500
I don't know.
But you and I know I mean not

1898
02:05:01,500 --> 02:05:04,200
that I have friends that are On
the opposite side of aisle.

1899
02:05:04,200 --> 02:05:09,700
And as I am in many respects, we
have read the same stuff, right?

1900
02:05:09,900 --> 02:05:13,600
We have, we know the same data
and yet they will interpret that

1901
02:05:13,600 --> 02:05:17,800
data to fit what they want to
believe as I will fit it.

1902
02:05:17,900 --> 02:05:20,600
And now, you know, there are any
number of ways to look at it but

1903
02:05:20,600 --> 02:05:24,700
you can't deny the, 90% of the
Book of Mormon claims are now

1904
02:05:24,700 --> 02:05:28,600
been verified, right?
Come on, absolutely.

1905
02:05:28,900 --> 02:05:30,800
Well, you know, and it doesn't
mention this in a previous

1906
02:05:30,800 --> 02:05:38,900
interview with you, a friend,
says, well, Well, so he had so

1907
02:05:38,900 --> 02:05:41,000
he had help from the other side.
How do we know it wasn't the

1908
02:05:41,000 --> 02:05:42,600
devil?
I mean, we, you know, when

1909
02:05:42,600 --> 02:05:46,900
they're making that argument,
they could no longer argue

1910
02:05:46,900 --> 02:05:50,300
against Joseph Smith was doing
Supernatural things.

1911
02:05:50,400 --> 02:05:53,500
Absolutely absolutely, the
resulted in all of these Wicked

1912
02:05:53,500 --> 02:05:55,800
Mormons destroying the world,
right?

1913
02:05:55,900 --> 02:06:00,800
Right having families and yeah
how terrible horrible things

1914
02:06:00,800 --> 02:06:04,600
helping people and trying to
Healthy and be nice.

1915
02:06:04,700 --> 02:06:07,000
Do good.
That's just terrible.

1916
02:06:07,400 --> 02:06:10,900
That's horrible.
Yeah, well Ken dude.

1917
02:06:10,900 --> 02:06:13,400
It's always good.
Thank you so much.

1918
02:06:13,700 --> 02:06:17,700
And dude, I'm looking forward to
the next time.

1919
02:06:19,000 --> 02:06:19,900
Yeah, what?
Then?

1920
02:06:20,500 --> 02:06:21,800
Whoa.
We're anything.

1921
02:06:21,800 --> 02:06:24,800
Anything you want?
Like I've tell everybody, once

1922
02:06:24,800 --> 02:06:27,200
you've been on here, once you
got a standing invitation my

1923
02:06:27,200 --> 02:06:29,300
friend.
Yeah, I'm game.

1924
02:06:29,400 --> 02:06:31,100
I'm game.
Anytime you're interested.

1925
02:06:31,100 --> 02:06:32,700
I don't know.
Where are we?

1926
02:06:32,900 --> 02:06:35,500
I mean, we could go any
direction we wanted that we can

1927
02:06:35,500 --> 02:06:38,000
with this was this was so fun.
I'm so glad we got to do this.

1928
02:06:38,300 --> 02:06:41,700
Absolutely, absolutely.
I always enjoy our conversations

1929
02:06:41,700 --> 02:06:43,900
and I always, always, always
look forward to him.

1930
02:06:44,500 --> 02:06:48,500
So dude, you're awesome.
I love you and I appreciate you.

1931
02:06:49,300 --> 02:06:52,400
Thanks my friend till next time.
All right, bye everybody.

1932
02:07:06,600 --> 02:07:09,700
You're listening to the Mormon
Renegade podcast.