Episode #40: Instalment 4 Of The Jewish Calendar Series: Hanukkah W/Joshua Erickson

0:05 On this episode of the podcast, I have Joshua Erickson back on to continue our series on the Jewish calendar and feast days. Now, as always, I strongly recommend that if you haven't listened to the previous episodes in this series, you go back and do that. First, the reason is that these celebrations build on top of each other. Those episodes would be numbers. 27 28 and 30 this time around Joshua Erickson. I break down Hanukkah, we dive into the history of the festival and how it is celebrated today as we discuss discuss these things there are fascinating ties to Joseph Smith as well as some pretty Stark Parallels for our day, concerning Mormonism, and even some fundamentalist prophecy stick around for that. And more on this episode of the Mormon Renegade podcast. So, I just want to take a moment to thank you. The Listener, when I started this podcast I wasn't sure if anyone would really listen.

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3:09 Welcome back to the Mormon Renegade podcast as always you can get ahold of me either by email at Mormon Renegade at gmail.com. You can also get a hold of me on Instagram and Twitter and getter under the handle. Mormon Renegade. Also we have a website up and that's Mormon Renegade.com, so go check that out. Well Joshua man. Thanks for coming back on again. Glad to be here. Repeat. Offender. Repeat offender. That's all right. You can come back anytime you want. I appreciate the open invitation. Yeah, there's always a spot for you here. So don't don't worry about that. I'll feel free to come down anytime. So we're going to talk about Hanukkah today.

3:50 Everything in me, it was so hard not to want to play the the Hanukkah Song by m Sandler before we got started. But real quick, is this is this kind of a last holiday in the Jewish calendar. The know the last one is going to be premium, so Kareem okay, yep before before the new year which is before the the ecclesiastical New Year, which is the first month when pack when Passover is, so Kareem is the is the last gacha gacha. So we got one more to do after this. I'm looking forward to. That's right. Well, that were then we'll start. I have no idea what that is. So that one will be really cool. Okay. Yeah, I have a little bit of an idea on on what Hanukkah is, but probably not as much as you. So what's the history of Hanukkah history of Hanukkah? So this, there's a the Old Testament stops about 400 years before the New Testament again.

4:52 So there's this gap, which is called by historians the intertestamental period and Hanukkah, the story of Hanukkah occur, In this intertestamental period. It's actually, you know, to go back to Nebuchadnezzar's Vision, he has this voted this his dream, right? Where he sees the statue, with the gold head, and the silver arms and chest, and the brass belly and thighs, and then the legs of iron. And then the feet that are iron mixed with Clay, okay? And this story story of Hanukkah takes place in with the belly and the thighs of brass really.

5:35 So was the bellies in the in the thighs of brass with those represent and that represents the kingdom of Greece. Okay? So all of these, all of these things that Nebuchadnezzar saw in Daniel interpreted, these are all kingdoms that were going to occupy Jerusalem. Basically at one point or another and start out with Nebuchadnezzar. He was the head of gold which was Babylon. And then The the two, the two silver arms were the medes and the Persians, okay? And then, who conquered Babylon and then, and then they were conquered in turn by Greece, which was the brass and then Greece was interned, conquered by Rome, of course, which was the iron. And so we Hanukkah takes place during that that time of Grecian occupancies, right?

6:28 So the old Estimate kind of, we get into the Babylonian captivity, and then in the Book of Daniel, he talks about the medes, and the Persians are there as well. But then, the Old Testament goes quiet and then we pick it back up with Rome being in charge of the Holy Land, right? So we kind of skip over the brass part of the sculpture. Yeah, we don't hear a lot about the Grecian occupation and I mean, really realistically, unless you've gotten into the book of Maccabees or something like that, it's almost it's strange in the sense that especially to the Christian world and I would love Mormons in with that there.

7:08 It's almost a forgotten time period for us. It is. And the reason the reason why that is is because Christians especially Protestants, only Protestants have deleted the Apocrypha from the Bible, right? So I guess I should say a little bit about About the Apocrypha. Because the Apocrypha actually comes about as far as we know during this time, most of most of the Bible's that we had the King James version and the NIV and the nasb and a bunch of kind of modern translations, may be all modern, all the major modern translations anyway, they translate from What's called the master Vedic texts, which is the Hebrew version of the, the Old Testament and and it's actually surprisingly recent.

8:09 So when you think about the Hebrew Bible, I mean this thing is a is thousands of years old but the copy that everything is translated from is basically goes back to the Leningrad cone. It codex, Leningrad codex was made. Sometime around 1000. Wow, ad and so all our all our Bibles, go to this. Source that was compiled in 1000 ad. So this this Grecian occupation of the Holy Land. Is this just is it Alexander?

8:51 The Great who is yeah? Started with Alexander. That's right. Alexander was pretty amazing. He actually had his father was Philip Of Macedonia and Philip had a few wives, I think, Alexander was from his fourth wife, but when, when she conceived, she actually had this Vision like in a dream in a dream lightning bolt like struck her stomach wow and from and from her stomach came this fire that like burned the whole world and then faded away, you know? And which course you Alexander It's a lot to live up to as a kid shoes. Yeah, yeah, big shoes to fill.

9:34 So Philip was murdered if I remember right? And Alexander came to power when he was just 20 years old and his father had his father had aspirations to make to expand the Grecian Empire and had those aspirations for his son Alexander and he filled. You filled those shoes, very proficiently, let's say Alexander was amazing. Now, it Maccabees which talks about this Grecian occupation, if I'm not mistaken, it wasn't the primary guy who was ruling the place that time though, wasn't Alexander. It was a guy named after Caius, epiphanies right?

10:14 Boo, right in my house. And when they do, when anytime, someone says Antiochus epiphanes and everyone, everyone says, boo, we do that here because if usually it's with Woodrow Wilson. Oh yeah, but yes but so So Alexander, he conquers the Holy Land, Alexander conquers a lot of ground. I mean he's he's out this this is not a homebody. This guy is out there and he's trying, he's going to town, but it's in my estimation. He was pretty hands-off with the local population during his time, right? Alexander's time. He was actually, as far as Emperor's go was a fairly good guy, right? Yeah.

10:59 Josie. Four chords his entrance into the holy land. And the people in Jerusalem, the Jews, they They knew that they were going to be incorporated. Yeah, into the Grecian Kingdom Empire and so, there's not really any use in putting up a fight, and they decided just to submit instead, and when Alexander approached Jerusalem, basically, the high priest whose name was Jay Doha at the time, he's, you know, they can't, the plan was, everyone is going to, we're all Going to be fasting and praying and everyone's going to put on their white clothes. Everyone's going to go out to the streets and like, you know, just bow down and welcome Alexander with with celebration and stuff.

11:51 And so, Alexander goes through the streets and he's just met by you. All these people dressed in white and welcoming him and he gets up to the temple and the high priest comes out and he's all dressed in his Priestly garments as well. And the high priest wore a crown on his turban that said, Holiness to the Lord across it, and go in on a gold plate, that would he wear on his head and Alexander when he saw the high priest wearing that then was brought to his mind, his memory about, like a dream that he had. He had had a dream that when he saw that, that the high priest come out like he was supposed to, like, respect these people.

12:38 And so so he so he just totally spared them and there was no no Bloodshed or anything. And he basically like supported the temple there. He's like I'm going to, I'm going to contribute to the work you're doing and everything went really well under Alexander. Now he he died at a young age. Took him. He was 32 or 33. I think can't remember basically. He said, he, he became king at 20 and started his campaign. Is worldwide Campaign, which took about a decade? You basically conquered the whole Known World and was basically undefeated in battle. And this is actually the cool thing about about hanukkah's. There's, it's not one of the thought one of the feasts that the Lord commands Israel to keep you like Passover and Tabernacles and so on.

13:34 But it is talked about in the Old Testament, most notably in the Book of Daniel, right? So I'm going to read just a little bit about Daniel here or from Daniel. This is in Daniel chapter 8. Let's see. Sorry, so I lift up, this is Daniel speaking, I looked at my eyes, he's having this Vision, I saw and there stood before the river, a ram, which had two horns, and the two horns were high, but one was higher than the other and the higher came up last. And so, he actually goes on later on to an interpretation of this dream is given, and the ram, this is in verse 20, the round, which thou saw'st having two horns, are the Is a media and Persia.

14:26 So the medes and the Persians and I saw the ramp pushing Westward and northward and Southward. So that no beefs might stand before him. Neither was there any that could deliver out of his hand? But he did, according to his will and became great. And as I was considering this Ram, Behold, a he-goat came from the West, on the face of the whole earth and touched not the ground. And the Goat had a notable horn between his eyes and he came to the ram that had two horns, which I had seen standing before the river and the ram said unto him ran into him in the fury of his power. And I saw him come close onto the RAM and he was moved with caller against him and smote the RAM and break his two horns.

15:10 And there was no power in the ram to stand before him. But he cast him down to the ground and stamped upon him. And there was at none that could deliver the ram out of his hand, therefore the goat waxed. Very Great. And when he was strong, the Great Horn was broken and for it came up four notable ones towards the Four Winds of heaven. So, later on in verse 21 says, the rough, goat is the king of Grisha and the Great Horn that is between his eyes, is the first king. This is, this is Alexander the Great, okay? He was the goat was Greece, and the horn, the one horn that the goat had was Alexander and he Says, he flew across the world, like, it looked like the goat was flying, because his feet didn't even touch the ground and this is the way that Alexander conquered the world basically, but but he died at the young age. He was he came down with some kind of sickness historians speculate whether that was some natural illness or whether he'd been poisoned, right?

16:12 We don't know, but he died and when he died basically, the kingdom was split into four parts which is which Daniel predicts here. Says, the one horn was broken off and then four horns came up in its place. So is it an antique is epiphanies? He's out. Yes. Well, he's comes next and out of one of those four horns came, a little horn, which waxed exceedingly, great toward, the South, and toward the East, and toward the pleasant land, and a wax. Great. Even to the host of heaven and cast down some of the host and of the Stars to the ground and stamped upon them. Yay. Yeah, he magnified himself even to the prince of host and by him, the daily sacrifice was taken away and the place of his Sanctuary was cast down.

17:03 And it goes on and says in verse 13. Talks about the transgression of desolation and how long would the sanctuary be trodden Under Foot? And and this is this is talking about Antiochus epiphanes. So he he was so the four branches of the Grecian Kingdom, were basically Syria. Okay, which is where Antiochus comes from and then there was Egypt and then there was turkey and Greece. Okay. So Antichrist Tiffany's not not Grecian, he's Syria.

17:43 Well, it's the, it's the Greek Syrian Empire. Okay. So and then in Egypt, it was the Greek Egyptian like he was the land of Egypt but under Greek control. Okay? So Alexander he comes through and he just basically cleans up. I mean, nobody really stands a chance against him. In fact, like dominoes. Yeah, and, and real really, I from my understanding about the time he's halfway done most other Kingdoms are like, you know, he seems cool as long as we don't screw with him. So let's just let's just understand this is happening and then let's see if we can't just play nice with him and then maybe he will play nice which seems to be that he did right to the point.

18:26 He leaves the Jews alone in Jerusalem and says you do your thing. You're going to pay your taxes to me. But other than that, I'm going to leave you alone. Yeah, so so yeah. So it goes along well there, then he, Dies and it's amazing. This is all foretold by scripture to I think that's really cool. See it is amazing. And then from there Antiochus epiphanes comes into play. That's right. And let's talk about him a little bit, what's his deal? He's he's really bad man. He actually and he has a as many of these Emperor's do. He has a God, complex and his name is His name is Antiochus, which is the name of his father, but like, the, the title that he takes on is Theos epiphanies for which is and just epiphanies for short, but his name is Antiochus, God manifest, like God has appeared. That was that was his, that was his Antiochus, the God has appeared.

19:29 That was the name that he gave himself. You know, I thought about guys like that and the one thing I'll say is they have to be motivated because again, that's a lot to live up to, right now. Yeah. I have no desire to be that, that worshipful, but I do find it interesting that this same pattern emerges time and time again, which is you might have one really benevolent really good king, or leader that really loves his people. But there's no guarantee about that. Second one, a man, right. And so I I wanted to point that out because it's something that we continue to see, right? Absolutely. Is that the one guy might might be totally cool, but the guy behind him.

20:12 Well, that guy we don't know. And that could be bad. That is the reason we don't give the good guy right. Power. Exactly. Exactly. If we can help it. Absolutely. There's only been a couple of guys, I can think of that took that kind of power and then returned, it one was Washington and then the other was was, and Lincoln didn't even go fully back, but he gave most of it back after the Civil War. And so those men are extremely Only rare. And once that power gets in stolen somebody it's there forever and you can see that learn by sad experience. Yeah. And drink this position. We can see that with Antiochus epiphanes booty so he comes into power.

20:52 When does he start really messing with with the Israelites? Yeah, he, you know, this is this story takes place in the 160s BC, so He is. He has. He has Ambitions actually, all of these, all of these generals, the four generals that these four kingdoms, that kind of come out of Alexander's. Greece, they all fight with each other for Supremacy constantly generation after generation. They're having Wars with each other. Trying to kind of put back together, Alexander's Kingdom, which never happens.

21:35 And eventually Rome comes along and puts a big no pain, the whole thing and Rome doesn't Rome does succeed. But, but, you know, these little greek smaller Greek kingdoms, they never do so, Antiochus, epiphanes. He's he's got Egypt in his sights and of course about between Syria in the North. And then Egypt in the South. The Kingdom of Israel is is right there in between. And so and sometimes sometimes, you know, the Greek Egyptians in the, you know, they are in. Hard. And sometimes the Syrian Greeks are in charge and eat and Israel's kind of back and forth there.

22:18 And Daniel talks about that to. He talks about the King of the North and the King of the South and these. All right, intrigues that are going to happen there. So he's so Antiochus, is actually goes down to Egypt and He actually beats up on Ptolemy, who's the king in Egypt. All of the, all of the kings in Egypt or name Ptolemy. So he beats him up and he goes down again. Another time to to battle and when he's down there, the second time I believe the skin of the second campaign. He's down there. There's a single Roman gentleman. Who is it has a message from the Roman? Senate and basically this single Roman messenger, basically tells Antiochus We want you to leave Egypt and and and Egypt is no longer going to be a concern of yours and we would like you to tell us, give us your intentions towards Egypt. You know, now that you know, our intentions and Antiochus says, he'll have to discuss it with his counsel and the Roman guy takes a stick or a sword or I don't know whatever and draws a circle around and I guess in the sand and says before you leave the circle, you will give an

23:49 answer to the Roman senate and Antiochus is not very happy about this but realizes that He'll probably just leave Egypt alone from now on. Yeah, because he really doesn't have a choice, right? Because Rome is at the height of its power, and it's got a lot of power. It's got money. It can fund these excursions. That's right 44 in perpetuity and so Aunt Kya is recognizing that the The Grecian Empire is already fractured. He doesn't have the the wherewithal to go toe-to-toe with Rome. That's right, not at all. And so interesting thing is is back. In Jerusalem at this time and this is in.

24:32 I believe this is in Second Maccabees first and second Maccabees, they overlap in a lot of there. Their storytelling. So, let me just go there. All right, so I found it. So it's in second Maccabees chapter 5. It's interesting while Antiochus was down in Egypt, the folks up in Jerusalem actually had this Collective vision and is reported. I'll real just read it here. This is the this is the good news translation of the Apocrypha here.

25:12 So about this time Antiochus, the fourth made a second attack against Egypt for nearly forty days. Days. People all over Jerusalem saw visions of Cavalry troops in gold armor charging across the sky. The writers were armed with Spears and their swords were drawn. They were lined up in battle against one another attacking and counter-attacking shields were clashing. There was a rain of Spears and arrows flew through the air, all different kinds of armor, and the golden bridles of the horses flashed in the sunlight and everyone in the city prayed that, these Visions might be a good sign. Hmm. So the it's a, it's actually really interesting. Vision. Now they didn't, they didn't know what this meant, but there was, you know, when they said it was a good sign.

25:55 They hoped that, that meant, that Antiochus was had been defeated right now. Antiochus was kind of defeated, but he was certainly not killed, and that was kind of the rumor that had gone on and, and when Antiochus made his way back up, north, he found He found Jerusalem kind of in disarray, and people were people weren't necessarily celebrating, but there were, it was because of the rumors of his death, there was kind of some riots and some things happening in Jerusalem. And that did not make him happy that that they kind of assume that he had been killed in battle.

26:38 So was he was he mistreating Israel prior no to this episode. So so this is very much The impetus for him being like he's in a bad mood from his interaction with Rome, I was just going to say to put everything into context, this is a guy who just got humiliated. That's right. He's like I have my Army and my Army is going to destroy something right and I've been thwarted in Egypt. So so then he finds the Jews who never really have a, at least since the time of David, a really good standing army. Yeah, I've Didn't look at ancient Israel, and thought they have a lot of great Special Forces so to speak.

27:20 We see that. Yeah, where there's, they're small and stuff. Yeah, they're small bands that are really good at kind of counterinsurgency, sort of stuff. But then you have, you don't have a standing army where you're just going to go toe-to-toe with somebody and so they're probably a good Target to take some of that frustration out on ya. At least that's how Aunt Kya says. Looking at it. Like, it's exactly. I just got I just got humiliated from this point forward. I'm ruling with an iron fist. Yeah. Now he had started some of the Mysteries. It's kind of a complicated story because there was there was Greek interference and a Greek oppression, which hadn't really started until this event. But there was also this internal factions because there was, there was A group of Jews who were hellenized so they loved Greek culture and were wanting Israel to just become to fully embrace.

28:27 The Greek NE some everything just to assimilate to assimilate, that's exactly the word. And so the story of The Maccabees and Hanukkah is on one sense, an international thing where they're fighting against the Greeks, but there's also a civil war that's going on simultaneously. Lee, they're fighting with each other. Over over whether or not to, we're going to just accept Greek customs and laws and abandon the Torah, and the law, and the god of our fathers. So before we dive too much into Maccabees and who they are, let's set the set the stage for what Antiochus epiphanes does.

29:10 What's the if you're if you're a Torah believing Jew of that time, what's Aunt? Kya Vinnie's doing within Israel Israeli Society. So, at the up until this point there had been, like, said there had not been the kind of overt oppression, but there was all kinds of Entry. Actually, the, the high priest, the position of high priest, and the whole, the whole Jewish priest had just became utterly corrupt. So there was actually the guy, the guy who should have been The guy who should have been the high priest, his name is own, is the third?

29:58 And he was actually deposed there was a another guy named Jason. His name is name was actually Yeshua or Jesus. Hmm. But he changed his name to Jason because he wants to be Greek and he actually bribed or not bribed. But yeah, bribed I guess offered anti his money if Antiochus would forcibly give him Position of high priest over Jerusalem, so Antiochus did that and then and then Jason was in charge and he basically did not own is the third was against the hellenization and Jason was in favor of it.

30:40 And so Jason kind of started to do all the Greek things. He built a gymnasium there, you know where they would all play their Olympic Games and Stuff in the nude, you know, right. Which is yeah. And and In my reading and you can correct me if I'm wrong. This is a time where Epiphany seems to be saying. Look, you're going to Helen eyes, you are going, not yet but it is skidding to that it's already. Yeah, and you know this is kind of, this is how I think this is. This is how governments work right? There's there's these social changes that start to creep in and when there's you know when they get 50% support or something, right?

31:25 Then they enforce it and that's kind of what was happening that, I guess you could say, is that there was this not a required, but just a naturally occurring Trend in society to adopt Hellenistic ways. And then there's enough support and also Antiochus is pissed off at those who are not voluntarily doing it. That he says, we're going to make this compulsory. Yeah, one of the reasons I love the story of The Maccabees. Bees and Hanukkah is because I think there are some echoes in there, if not some direct talk about protecting your beliefs. Oh, absolutely.

32:06 And I find that we might be coming to a time, that's very similar in the sense of your, you're going to adopt this new society. And I think we need to look at that Maccabees not necessarily for their, for their violence. But for their because I don't think we're at that time yet, right? I want to make that very clear but I think we do need to be just as Resolute about holding on to our culture and into our God into our religion. Because we're right there and we saw that and this is why this episode probably won't go on YouTube, but we saw something very similar with the the vaccine mandate, right?

32:52 You're Going to comply? Absolutely, you're going to comply. Let's talk a little bit about what Aunt Kya is does in terms of the temple kosher dietary laws, right? Because I think there's some significant parallels there, so he just he kind of destroys, well, there's some Intrigue there between Jason, as I said, who kind of bribed paid, you know, paid for the position of high priest. He actually sends One of his guys whose names Menelaus who's not even of the tribe of Levi, he's a benjamite sends him to go make a payment and Menelaus takes the opportunity to outbid Jason and says, hey I've got all this money plus. I'll give you more when we go back. If you send soldiers back with me and put me in as the high priest, Antiochus says sounds great, and they're part of the part of the squabble that caused that made on Tigers lose. His temper was the squabble between Jason and Menelaus but anyway, Antiochus puts Menelaus in position as high priest and then Menelaus in order to pay the bribe that he had promised goes into the temple and takes some of the temple. Treasures basically, to pay for his new position as high priest. Okay, now Antiochus is also

34:23 realizing that there's there's a bunch of Jews and probably maybe some people in other parts of his kingdom who don't really like assimilating. And so he makes a law that everyone in my kingdom is going to be Greek in their Customs, you know, in their dress and in their worship and everyone will worship the same gods. And, and he basically made this, he, I mean, the the parallels are our remarkable. Because here, we have it a tyrant who wants basically a One World Government. He wants. He wants everyone to be good Global Citizens.

35:05 Yep. And the Jews say, we are not going to do that. Some of them. Anyway, those who resist and he says, yes, you will. You will not do anything. Detective Lee Jewish any, any detectable any Detective, Lee Jewish thing. You do will be punished by death and torture. So yeah, you are not allowed to keep the Sabbath. You are not allowed to observe Passover. You are not allowed to have the scriptures with you. If you get caught with scriptures, we will destroy those and then torture and kill. You're not allowed to circumcise your children. You're not allowed. You must eat unclean things. Not only that you must eat unclean things that have been offered to The Greek gods.

35:51 So like ee awful and it was and he basically rained with blood and horror to borrow a phrase and and made a concerted effort to Stamp Out the Jewish religion. Yeah, the people I read a book and it wasn't like the book of Maccabees but it was a book that was kind of commentary. On The Maccabees it was told from a kind of like a story kind of perspective. Yeah. And the things he does are absolutely atrocious. He bases the temple. He didn't get to that.

36:35 Yeah. I mean it's no. No you're fine. Yeah. He it's it's awful because he actually yeah the temple is also also must be debased and he sets up, you actually sets up he actually captures the temple, on the 15th of kislev, which is the, the 9th biblical month and, and then after he captures the temple, he sets up a he sets up an altar to Zeus like on top, over over the altar to Jehovah and and also inside the temple, he sets up an idol to Zeus and The accounts of it say that the on this statue of Zeus actually was a self-portrait of Antiochus know, right? He has amazing, which is, which is all so. So then on the 25th of kislev, he he actually does what Daniel calls and what Maccabees calls the abomination of desolation. And he actually offers swine to Zeus on the altar in the temple and then takes the blood of the pig and spreads it in the holy of holies and over everything in the temple. And you just totally defiles it.

38:06 And, and basically the temple, the temple just becomes this like bar and brothel. Yeah, they set up like prostitution, is there and these have drinking parties and orgy. Is that they just are just praying and offering to these idols and stuff in the temple. And it's just everything is everything is just utterly filthy and defiled and desolate. And so, so that is what that is, what Daniel refers to. I've said, as the abomination of desolation, and Jesus talks about this in the New Testament and like, Matthew 24 before I get Get to that. It's interesting thing about about the scriptures to you when we we talk a lot, I think in our meetings and in our study and you read commentaries and books and stuff and there's a lot of talk about types and shadows of Christ. And a lot of the a lot of the ancient prophets pieces of their life kind of match things that the Savior would do. You know, for example, you know, if I if I if I say there was this there's this promised child that was born and there was a wicked King who want to kill the promised child. So he killed all the killed all the babies but but this chosen child was saved by Going to

39:36 Egypt. And then, who am I talking about? You're right. You're talking about Herod, right? Or or I'm talking about Moses, right? And the things that happened with Pharaoh, right? And Moses. So Moses has infancy kind of right mirrors, Jesus infancy, right? So so Moses in that way, as a type of Christ. And so now, the scriptures talk about the Antichrist as well, the anti-messiah and And and there are types and shadows of the Antichrist as well. And Antiochus, epiphanes is, is that he is, perhaps the strongest type and Shadow of the true Antichrist. Which is, which is Yet to Come, And there are others to other other types and shadows, and he doesn't stop at just defiling the temple.

40:27 He, I read one account where he would go out to kind of the outlying areas of Jerusalem, Galilee being one of Of them and like finding the rabbi and cooking up a pig and being like, you're going to eat this from gonna kill your family. That's right. Yeah. And it's a is it is a kind of a double-edged thing is like if you don't yeah then you and your family will be tort and not just killed but tortured. I mean, there's in the book of second Maccabees in particular. There's, there's several, several of the martyrdoms that are Detailed in gruesome detail and there's kind of two famous sets.

41:09 There's one this old man elderly man named Eleazar and it's this very thing they go out to all the outlying cities and they set up Pagan altars and they offer something to Zeus or whatever and they say everyone come and partake so we can all be one you know? So we can so we can all be good Global Citizens and be, you know, Part of this Greek family. And uh, and they would often go to, like you said the rabbi or to the like the respected members of those communities and say, you come up and go first because then we'll get less resistance right. And and if you do, then will shower you with gifts and praise and you'll get the title friend of the king and you know, will give you will give you a reward and if you don't, then then you're going to die.

42:02 Ali A's are says no I will. I refuse. And the officials say they actually tell him they say, okay, let's do this. Why don't you bring your own clean food and come up and, and just eat that but beep. But pretend to partake of this sacrifice to zoos and but you don't actually have to, but we just want you to set an example so that everyone else will do it. And you'll liaise are basically, says, there's no way I would do that because all these young people are watching me and like their blood will be upon my head.

42:44 You know, if I write do This wicked thing, right? And so he gets tortured and killed. And then the other one is there's this. There's a mother with her seven sons and they're all like tortured and killed one at a time while the rest of them are watching. And they just and they just all refused. And and it just, it, it's like gory stuff, you know, they cut off their hands and feet like one at a time, you know, do you will you accept, you know, Zeus whenever cut out their tongue and then they like roast them alive. Giant frying pan and stuff like that. Yeah. Horrible stuff. Yeah. And and I think here's probably a good point to stop for a second and draw some interesting parallels right on this part of the story so far, we just got done going through a process where again, going back to the pandemic, you will submit to this. You will do this and you're going to do it to be a good Global citizen that is and to be United and one. Of the things that that bugs me.

43:48 The most is when folks in power, talk about Unity for Unity sake, right? We can even see spots in the Old Testament where the Lord wasn't a fan of just Unity for Unity sake. Think about the Tower of Babel right where the people were all of one heart and one mind and the Lord's like trouble. Now if we're all United on Godly principles, that's a different animal. But when it's Unity, For political purposes, for somebody's ego. Yeah, on wrong principle. This is the, this is the kingdom of the Antichrist, which is always in opposition, right? And so we just got done going through that. The other thing that I'm going to say and this is going to get real spicy.

44:35 I like spicy. We just saw last week. The church come out and throw its support behind gay, marriage. Oh, boy, I'm gonna go there. I'm Gonna go there. I'm gonna go there. I'm gonna go back to when I left the LDS church a few years back and I had a very candid conversation with my higher up, who was the son of a general Authority? A 70k, not going to name names. All right, but he asked me a question. He's like why are you so concerned about the temple changes? What is it about it? That really bugs, you and I said, you are Paving the way. Four.

45:21 And I use the exact term of the abomination of desolation, that's right. And he asked what that was and I said, is that, yeah, but in 10 years and this is what I said there. I said in 10 to 20 years, I think you're going to see, gay marriage is inside the temple. You have the church did say, this is quote or the way forward, right? Exactly. You had down a chokes just a year ago. I remember because I was Christmas shopping with my wife, where I read the story, we're down a choke said, we're going to have to surrender some things in order to have peace. What left is there at this point and a few things I can think of and and so I think we're at a point now, where They may not be killing people, but they'll cancel you, the only race you that way. Yeah.

46:12 And so there's some very interesting parallels that are happening right now to this. Yeah. And it's either, you will be a good Global citizen will cancel. You will erase you from culture. And with the Advent of ESG, with the Advent of an potentially, at Gadget digital dollar that Times gonna come and I feel like people at this point need to start preparing for such things where we can maybe come together and work together and put some of our differences aside because we're going to need to rely on each other. There's going to have to be something parallel, that's happening if we're going to resist.

46:56 Yeah, this and I think we see that Baird out in the story of Maccabees as well, right? You get the feeling that there's something, parallel happening when the map apps to roll. Is roll on when the Maccabees roll up on site, right? It's already been established in there, there's so much prophetic. It's maybe the most prophetic of the holidays. Yeah. Because yeah, just the things that Daniel talks about and Jesus as well. Jesus, of course, in Matthew 24 and we have, we have some additional things in Joseph, Smith Matthew there, but Jesus basically says, when you see the abomination of desolation mentioned by Daniel, then you'll know that the temple here in Jerusalem is going to be destroyed and all that. He talks about how he predicts the destruction of the temple, that happened in 70 AD, right?

47:53 Of Espeon, I think in and Titus was yes, son, who actually actually did the deed. And that was, that was foretold in Daniel as well. Daniel talks about the fourth. He talks about talks about these kingdoms as like, these Metals in the Statue. But he also talks about these beasts, and he talks about this fourth Beast, which is Rome and it has Ten horns. And anyway and the 10th one, which was Titus is the one that is going to who is also a little horn. So he's also this type of the Antichrist who destroys the temple anyways. But Jesus says in Matthew 24, there says you're going to see the abomination of desolation and then you know, you're going to flee, but he says, but the abomination of desolation is going to happen again in the future.

48:43 And so watch out for that And and I think there's I mean there's been multiple fulfillments of it, and I don't know that we were definitely, I don't even know that there's one more. I think there's probably going to be at least several more 11 in the temple. That's going to be built in Jerusalem, for sure. And I think also, the temples of the Latter Day Saints to are going to see this Baumann a of an abomination of desolation. And I think the gay marriage is going to be ceiling is going to be a likely candidate. Yeah, yeah. The, the only place I could see, I may have been wrong. There's I misjudged the time. I honestly thought, you know, 10 to 20 years. I wonder if we're that far away at this point because it's moving with breathtaking speed, and it doesn't seem to be slowing down at all.

49:30 Yeah. Closer than we've ever been. That's what I like to say. Yep, people can make all kinds of predictions and prophecies and video. I mean, there's there's numbers, there's none of these days and years and times and stuff in Daniel and Revelation. And I suck at the game, pin, the tail on the lips, I always have to sit. It's closer than That's what I'm sure and we can all see that, right? Everything is accelerating, absolutely. So, yeah, I find those parallels, very interesting. But all right, let's move on. So, so we painted the picture of what's going on in Jerusalem under under Aunt Caius, and it is a horror show of Master show. Yeah, massive all in the name of unity unity and getting along and yet everyone being friends, right? It's the most brutal friendship it is and that's I've often said those relationships.

50:15 Are like dysfunctional, abusive marriages, right? Someone's getting beat up. And someone says, if you would just do as I tell you, I wouldn't have to do this. This is your fault and so. Oh yeah. I've often said it resembles an abusive marriage, quite a bit. That's exactly it. So when do The Maccabees roll up on site? Okay, this is when let's talk about The Maccabees first, who are they? They're family right, our family. Yeah. Now the name maccabe is actually. That was actually a man, he's a priest, his name is Matisyahu or madiface is a like his Greek version Greek name, and he has five sons, and one of them, is named Judah who also has the nickname maccabe, which means the hammer, which is a pretty. It's pretty had, that's a badass. I don't know how else to say.

51:09 Yeah. And basically this this nickname that he has eventually Applies to the whole family. This whole family is also called the called the hasmoneans. Hasmoneans is the name of, like the grandfather, like, metathesis father or grandfather. I can't remember at the moment, but they, anyway, they become the hasmonean. Dynasty is this, this family or The Maccabees? Also known by. So these Greek officials, they come, they're going out to the various communities outside of Jerusalem and they go to the town of mode in which is where Matthias and his family live, and the Same kind of thing, they build, they set the altar there and they offer the swine to Zeus and they are, they tell mattifies to come up and because he's respected Elder in this community. And if he will partake first, then they will be friends with the King and get all these presents and perks. And, but if not, then though the bad things will happen and mattifies says, no, I never will. I'm not I never turn my back on the Covenant that my father's made you know with Our God and like, while he's giving this speech, there's another priest in the town who like walks up in front of everyone and and just goes ahead and and partakes of the offering, you know, maybe even offers offers and partakes right in front of everyone and mattifies. His so incensed, it's kind of a

52:40 it's kind of like Phineas in the Old Testament, we run. A lance through the right. What's his name Aiken? I think no one else not even can't remember his name. Anyway. There's that you know story he brings the moabite prostitutes into his tent basically. Anyway he does he goes and earns earns. The priesthood forever says by securing these these evildoers but So, math is basically pulls out his sword and goes and kills the other priests, the other Jewish priests who had just done this wicked thing and then kills the Greek, official and you know, his sons, they pull their swords and there's a, there's a few soldiers there and they basically go to war clean house.

53:27 And then they, then they destroyed the altar that, push it over and then run away and into the hills. And mattifies basically says everyone who I'll use the Covenant like follow me, you know. Yeah. And that's the beginning of the Insurgency, right? And then they started Insurgency, that's right. I go up in the mountains and and people hear about what had just happened and I'm sure a lot of people were relieved, you know, that someone finally did something so that, so we can put an end to this Insanity. Actually. Interesting, speaking of insanity, Antiochus epiphanes, like he had kind of a A nickname which was opinion. He's just kind of a play on words but epiphanies means like mad man so insane so so that's what he was called. Yeah.

54:23 So Not mattifies dies, not too much later. Like, after this whole thing starts, but he he dies and he basically says, one of the one of his sons I think was Simon Simon. He's going to be kind of in charge of things that generally but Judah Maccabee, he's going to be the general. He's gonna be in charge of the army and do whatever he says. So I read something now. No. If this is something that you know about, but in this has been years ago, this has been over a decade ago. When I read about about The Maccabees. They before this goes down their cat. Kind of known around town.

55:09 So to speak. Is kind of rowdy kids. I probably probably, I wouldn't be surprised if there was some oral tradition that, you know, they're kind of the guys who in today's society, our overall good guys but they're a little rough around the edges. They'd be the guy. You'd see at church and would definitely be living the Commandments. But maybe pushing things a little bit, right? Some louder music being played and just just Rowdy there. There, there there are different breeds. So yeah, not clean shaven, not clean shaven. They're they're they're kind of March into their own drum but yet very, very adherent to the, to the gospel. Yeah, absolutely. The kind of people that you want to be your friend, actually.

55:51 Yeah. Probably the guy you want in a fight is kind of the vibe. You get Absolutely, they were kind of always itching and I know that that was one of the things that this historian and author kind of brought out is that they were kind of known for getting into some fistfights. They didn't seem too shy away a whole bunch from now, they did. Let's, let's throw down a little bit, just out of fun, more or less. And then they found somebody that Really got their higher up. So as dictators do, they didn't necessarily account for every member of that population and and now you have the Maccabee. So what happens once once they run up in the hills. So they run up to the gala dies. Yeah. There.

56:33 There's actually several pockets of these of this resistance people hear about and people run up into the mountains in different places. Of course, Judea is just mountainous country. So, plenty of places but in one instance, there's this group of people up in the mountains and the Greeks come up on the Sabbath and they're like, hey come out, come out and eat the, you know, you pay homage to Zeus with the long with the rest of us or else we're going to wipe you out and they're like in caves and stuff and they basically say We're not we're not going to come out and do that and you know, leave us alone.

57:19 We're trying to be. We're trying to keep the Sabbath and so the Greeks just go and slaughter them and they put up no resistance because they don't want to It's just a this kind of the pendulum is swinging the other way. They want to have like this radical adherence to Super strict adherence to the law because that's what they feel like is going to be the antidote, right? So it's interesting to. So anyway, the the Greeks, the Greeks tedious, they kill. Like I can't remember one, one, two, three, thousand, people, something like that if I remember right? Anyway, several hundred at least and they just wipe out these people who offer no resistance. Since on the Sabbath and math is is like okay that just happened and we cannot let that happen again.

58:09 We're not we're not going to go out to battle on the Sabbath but if they come to us we are going to fight even on the Sabbath and they make that their policy and and basically they start having these battles and they and at first, they're kind of this ragtag band and not it, they don't even all have weapons. I like they have like you know, pitchforks and right kitchen knives, you know. And but they end up defeating one Greek army after another and then you know then they're then they get armor and Shields and swords and Judah himself. He the first, the first Syrian General Greeks in general, that comes comes against them. He actually takes his sword and uses that as his sword. The rest of the time, it's very kind of David and Goliath SQ. Texas, sword, and kind of Nephi with Laban. Sword becomes this like symbol of his Generalship. You know, and his authority in the Army anyway, and so like it's to everyone's surprise and and to Antiochus is dismay eventually, they they win their independence. Okay, let me stop you there for a second because I see another parallel here that I want to point out. And that is often times, we tend to look at ourselves and think should we do something right now? I'm not talking.

59:37 Fucking violence. Let's just put this in the context of the Gospel should should. I should I do something? And they, and the thought, always Creeps in your just one person or you're just one family. And what, what, what difference can you make? It always starts with one people. Forget that there was a large portion of this country who were loyal to the king. Yeah, right. Not, everybody was on board about going to war against England for Independence, even close. It was sort of a groups. Yeah, it was one dude. Who first questioned? And from there? It caught fire. That's right. And so I guess that's something that we have to keep in mind. Yeah, you're right.

1:00:23 You're one person you're one family, but You might be the match that lights the fire. Yeah. And they will be matches that don't, right? And so if you're feeling that pull do something open your mouth say something, but don't stand by. I get that, it's risky. I understand that very clearly and I'm not going to reveal reveal it but there's a price to be paid for doing the right thing. Yeah. And We got to be willing to take that step and just open our mouths and talk. So and and I just saw that as a parallel that at some point we need to talk. Yeah, that's absolutely the case I said there was there was plenty of people who just suffered martyrdom. If the aliens are in the and the mother with her seven sons of the most famous ones. and there's, there's two things that kind of The disease theme this theme through the books of Maccabees for those who are righteous and wanting to keep the Covenant.

1:01:39 The two themes are one, we have brought this on ourselves and it is used by our own, our own wickedness as a nation. And so the remedy to that is to return to repent. And even even if God continues to punish, they know that if they Repent that the God's punishment will not last forever because we're his people and he said he's punishing us to correct us. And it's a it's a it's a necessary thing for us to return. And so, that's one thing is that there's this this sense that the problems are of their own making and they're to blame, so they don't have, they don't blame Antiochus.

1:02:24 He's like an instrument being that's God is using to punish them for their own sins, okay? And then Nation. Yeah. And that's such a powerful state of mind. Because when you say, what's my role in, this will all of a sudden, you're now empowered to make changes. That's right to get back, right? So only a little bit and then the other thing is, there's this theme throughout that this strong strong belief in the resurrection and that even if we die, We are we are we will die and obtain a better Resurrection, if and that's it. And we just have faith in that and that will that carries us through and allows us to actually have, I was going to quote earlier now is a good time.

1:03:10 Actually, I'll go back to the to the Apocrypha, some of the Some of the reasons why the Apocrypha was taken out. People will say, people will say that. That the like the New Testament never quotes from the Apocrypha, which is not true. All right? And they'll say, well, even if it does, quote, like Jesus never quotes like, maybe like Paul quotes from it but Jesus never does. Which is also not true. And they'll say, you know, the Apocrypha never there's never there's nothing in the Apocrypha where as a prophet who says thus saith the Lord but there's also not true.

1:03:53 So anyway here's your At 11 example. This is Hebrews chapter 11 and there's all these lists of all these trials and accomplishments that people achieved over Kane because of their faith. And in 30 35 says, women received their dead raised to life again and others were tortured. Not accepting Deliverance that they might obtain a better. Resurrection. And others had trial of cruel. Mockings and scourgings. Yeah. Moreover the bonds, moreover of bonds and imprisonment. Stone sawn asunder and all that.

1:04:37 But anyway, this, the verse there in verse 35, especially tortured so that they might obtain a better Resurrection, like, this is, this is universally liked everyone, Bible scholars. Realize that this is an illusion to Second Maccabees when it talks about the woman with her seven sons and write their whole motivation is to obtain. This better resurrection. And so this is this is actually another reason. And this would be Interesting to Mormons to another reason why the Apocrypha is was removed, is because Martin Luther and a lot of the other reformers did not like some of the things in there, especially second Maccabees. And this is something I brought up with with Ken Peterson, we were talking about the Apocrypha was There's a lot of the Old and New Testaments that aren't kind to dictators and Kings, but that is part of it.

1:05:38 Yeah. Right. And, and this idea that that we should just submit at every turn. Doesn't necessarily hold water with what would be our spiritual Heritage so to speak. Right? So me and I I've often said sometimes we paint Christ in pastel colors, but keep in mind, this is a guy who's pissing everybody off around it. The release of the religious structure of the day as well as the political structure. Absolutely. And so, I think that that's maybe certain books didn't make it in because it wasn't politically expedient for for the dudes in charge. I know that even the Geneva Bible, which put a heavy emphasis on kind of, you know, casting tyrants and kings and bad light.

1:06:29 The British hated that Bible, they're like yeah we don't use that and certainly we discourage anybody from using a Geneva Bible for that very person reason. Because it was it was extremely anti-authoritarian. Yeah, you know that's a that's a thing that I think Latter-Day Saints struggle with to be honest because you know said the 11th article Faith. Yeah. We believe in being subject to Kings magistrates rulers and right and obeying honoring and sustaining the law. But our own Doctrine Covenant says has plenty of things like that too, but there's always caveats to that. Yeah. And the Doctrine and Covenants, makes one's right, thought the whole purpose of government was to protect the rights of gender rights.

1:07:15 And it says this, like sex thing is section 134 135 says that sedition is Unbecoming of every citizen. Who is thus protected in there? Right? Right, like as long as you're protecting your rights, then, sedition is a No-No, right there is definitely an opening. Therefore, if your rights are being trampled though, then then God bless you for resisting. You know, the story of the story of The Maccabees is really summed up nicely with Thomas, Jefferson's motto. Benjamin Franklin, writes Rebellion to tyrants is Stegall. Yep.

1:07:57 Absolutely absolute. Can I get a name it? Yeah. Can I get an amen? Yeah, yeah. I think. I think we need to be very careful how we apply the 11th Article of Faith. Certainly, I'm not espousing for violence. Let's get that out of the way, right now, that's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about kind of the, the Gandhi approach or the Martin Luther King approach, where you're you're saying, take me to jellification right. Nullification peaceful resistance. Don't don't just toe the line. Yeah, I mean, our own, our own declaration says it's, it's better to To suffer with evils as long as The Evils are sufferable. Exactly.

1:08:39 The guys who want to go to violence right away. Always spook me because they really they really don't know their History either, right? It wasn't like one day, the founders woke up and went you know we should just start a war, no way. This was something that went on for decades before it got to that point where where there was constant seeking for redress. So nobody be too quick to to do that please. But there's a Yeah. I've met folks who have crazy dangerous idea, like who believe that, that knew that might makes right? Yeah. Like a second. No, no. Like rights come from God and know that and they're like, no rights come from whoever's got the most guns, or whatever. So yeah, yeah.

1:09:28 Please don't do anything well. And furthermore, if you take that approach, that allows your belief that These rights are inalienable it puts a timeframe stamp on it, right? I mean if you're wiped out that doesn't continue but if you get on the side of God and say look these are from him for us no man can take these away. That's an idea and unlike a charismatic figure unlike a military leader that will perpetuate long after he is dead. That's right. Yeah so yeah, ideas are good ideas. last longer than, Military might.

1:10:09 Yep. Absolutely. So so they you said they begin to like all these things tend to do right? Once one guy starts it, some other people are like yeah, I'm with that dude. And it picks up steam and momentum to the point where they start getting armor and weapons and they get stronger and they eventually overthrow and Caius they do. And this is where the story of Hanukkah, really? It's absolutely incredible. There's just There's so many miracles, really that take place. It kind of culminate. Like the last, the last straw is Antiochus basically sends half of his entire Army to Judea and he actually, he actually takes the other half to Persia because he realizes that his, the treasury is empty.

1:10:58 So he needs to go to Persia to collect taxes. But he puts a lyceus, one of his Governor General's in charge since half Of it. And they actually this kind of dire moment. Like, all the nations kind of around, like, they, like here that half of the Syrian Greek Syrian Army is headed to Jerusalem and they all come with money and chains because they're looking forward to like, buying some slaves and stuff. Because they know there's going to be all these prisoners and stuff. And they just all their hopes are, are trashed. Yeah, and then immediately after that, And then the Greek thread is gone. Then judah's immediate his, immediately his attention turns back to the temple.

1:11:50 I'ma go there, and everything is just in this grotesque disarray, they finish clearing the Jerusalem of the last, you know, Greek soldiers that are there and just said about repairing and cleaning up the mess, you know, the so So they take the all the defiled stones for the Altar and they don't know. They actually don't know what to do with them because they're defiled but they're also the altar, right? So they decide. Well, we're just going to, we'll just set those somewhere to the side and 11 a profit comes.

1:12:31 You can tell us what to do with those, but they rebuild the Altar and clean up, everything start to rebuild the stuff inside and the ready to dedicate it. And of course they have I know. Now this this story about the the miracle of the oil, right? Which Hanukkah is famous for is actually not in the books of Maccabees. Either first or second Maccabees but is a story that's first told in the talmud which was you know written all nearly 400 years later so it's it's quite a late recollection and so there is kind of some some people doubt the truthfulness of the scary but I don't I don't actually see any reason necessarily too.

1:13:21 Well, there are reasons but but I actually liked it. I liked the story of the oil, partly, because like Josephus, who is centuries before the talmud, right? Josephus actually referred who he just seems like a contemporary of the New Testament writers. He calls Hanukkah, the Festival of Lights, so, Which is interesting that he doesn't call it the Festival of well well it's oiled its oil is light, right? But he doesn't it's actually the interesting thing is that the focus of the holiday has been is on this miracle of the light of the oil and not on the military victories even though if you had to, if I ask you which of these made a bigger difference in the world, you know, the the military Victory of this, you know, this unlikely military victories of these farmers and stuff who take on the largest Empire in the world at the time.

1:14:24 You know, arguably Rome was Rome was up-and-coming but one of the largest empires in the world and gain their independence. Or this oil that burned a little longer than it should have like the oil that burned a little longer than it should have didn't change the world. Like there's no history. The history books don't didn't deviate, right? Because of that, the history books did deviate in a big way because of the Maccabee family and their military exploits. So it's interesting that the the miracle of the oil and of course what was? What was They searched through the rubble, they clean everything up and they find one vessel of oil. That has that sealed that has the Seal of the high priest on it.

1:15:15 And so, they know it's not has not been defiled, which in itself is a miracle that just, they were able to find that among the rubble in the squalor that the temple had become, you know, this is too like the giant Menorah the giant Menorah, which is in the Holy place. Yes, seven-branched. Yeah. And and this is Is to, to essentially rededicate the house of the Lord, right? This is to, that's right. To bring bring this back into acceptance before God, which I don't think Maccabees gets enough credit. I mean, they get all the credit for shoeing out the the, the Greeks. Yeah, but they much like our Founders, in some ways.

1:15:58 Right there are several parallels are I'm looking at, but they go straight from We're spilling blood and were at War to get rid of the dictator to now, we have to rebuild. That's right. They just switch that gear and that's how he needs. We're doing this to serve God. Exactly. Exactly. Not for our own wealth or right power or fame. And and the reason I say it's interesting and kind of a parallel to the states, is a lot of those men who were, the founders could have had the had the opportunity. I could have had had the opportunity to install themselves as a new ruing. The newest dacra, see whatever it is. But instead, they're like, okay, now we got to build something better.

1:16:45 And you get that same feeling here from from, from The Maccabees has K. We've done that. Now, we need to restore what's been lost, right? I'm not concerned about my own power. Let's restore what was lost. There's several places in the books of Maccabees where Judah Maccabee is very Watch a Captain Moroni Roger. Yeah, and he rallies. His men not over Victory and spoil but he tells him. We are fighting for our God, and our families, and our country, and like, just in our freedom like those are the, those are the things like the exact things that Moroni puts on the title of Liberty. That's what, that's what Judah Maccabee Rouses his troops with his.

1:17:31 Well, this is the reason they're fighting. Yeah. So they they debate whether to just use up the oil they have and then and just get, you know, they're hungry for they're hungry for being able to serve God, right? And or so whether they do that and just let it burn out and then wait until they get more oil or two just or two just wait and they're they're impatient and they're ready. And And everything's set and so they decide to light the lamp. Yep. And it's and then the miracle is that it should have burned for one day, but it burns for 8 days until they can procure some new oil, right? And then then they keep it burning because it's a commandment to keep it burning all the time. So sometimes it's sometimes we say sometimes we'll say it's the miracle where the oil lasted for eight days but it's actually the miracle actually lasted for 7 Days, right? Because the first day wasn't wasn't miraculous right? Yeah.

1:18:42 And so but the first day was kind of little and then the miracle was bigger and so I think there's a couple reasons why this oil is and the light has become kind of the focus rather than the military Victory and And part of it is the military victory was extremely temporary. It was actually because the Romans are coming right behind them. Yep. The Romans are coming right behind him and that happened. And even before that, like mattifies, his sons Judas is eventually after they gained independence there still were they had to maintain their independence?

1:19:23 And so there was still battles. He eventually is killed. And but by the time it gets to mattifies. His last son, he is just his youngest son, he's just fully incorporates Greek ways of life. Yeah. And and and also they do they do The Maccabees. It's basically the kingly line. They actually they actually Proclaim themselves Kings which they're not supposed to there. There are the Priestly line but they they make themselves like they make themselves wear. Two hats are like we are the high priest and we also are the king and this is just have this consolidation of powers where there should have been a separation of powers between the religious and the and the second yeah Deuteronomy pretty clear on but they They just violate this and and the whole everything just falls into total corruption. And again, the office of high priest is just bought and sold, and people are murdered left.

1:20:31 And right, I mentioned own is the third. He was kind of the last kind of legitimate. Hi. He was, he was really the last, in my view, the last legitimate, high priest, that Israel ever happened in Jerusalem all the way up. Until Jesus is time like these are just Wicked people who were put into place for political things Heritage Point Herod. Who's also not even Israelite Harrods, Jewish aren't herod's them Arab, he appoints Egyptians. And Babylonians guys, to be the high priest and and and people just getting murdered left and right to become the king. And so it becomes a question for side and it's just awful.

1:21:13 I can't even describe how awful it's less of a calling now oh and more of a political office. Yeah and there's nothing to celebrate their right? Because just falls apart in a generation but the oil though that's something that's even though that didn't change history that's something like you want to know that yes, there has not been a prophet for Several centuries. And yet. Yet we know that God has not forgotten us but he's still there. You know. God, God looks down and says I see you. You lit that. I'm going to. I'm just going to do a little something for you to let you know that I'm still there and I see what you're doing.

1:22:01 You know, interesting in the inlet. Leviticus 23. This is the is a place where all of the all the festivals. Throughout the year are kind of laid out. And they're laid out in the in order according to according to the year, like it how, you know, right order that the festival's arrived in. So You know, on verse 4 says, these are the feasts of the Lord holy convocations, which you shall Proclaim in their seasons. And then it starts with the 14th day of the first month is Passover. And then, the 15th day is begin, the Feast of unleavened bread. And then it talks about first fruits. And then you go on to, then you go on to the the 50 days until Pentecost and and then, you know, and then it talks about the seventh, see Yeah.

1:23:01 In verse 24, says, in the seventh month, on the first day of the month will be Rosh Hashanah, you know, would be the Feast of trumpets and then and then there's Yom Kippur and then it describes the Feast of Tabernacles, which we talked about last time and then interesting and then and then the chapter ends. But those chapter those chapter breaks are fairly recent. They are very recent. Yeah, so interesting that not always put in the spot we would think of As correct, they are sometimes placed in a misleading way. So if you keep reading from Leviticus, 23 on to Leviticus twenty four.

1:23:43 If if you were going to list the holidays that came Hanukkah would be the next one. And if course, it's not mentioned directly, but there is a beautiful hint at it, so finish, Leviticus 23. With Tabernacles and then write in chapter 24 and the Lord spake. Unto Moses saying, command the children of Israel that they bring into the pure oil, pure oil, olive beaten for the light to cause the lamps to burn continually. Wow, without the veil outside of the veil of testimony in the Tabernacle of the congregation shall are in order it from the evening, into the morning before the Lord, continually, it should be a statute forever in your generations and he shall order the Supplying the pure Candlestick before the Lord continually so. So the very next thing after in the list of fisa says, and be sure you keep the menorah burning all the time. So yeah, the Lord was mindful.

1:24:45 Oh yeah. Clear back then like will give them a hint. They won't get it right now. That's right. But but we'll give it, will put it in there, so they know. Yeah. They was looking back on it. Ya know that I'm in charge, how is Hanukkah celebration has celebrated? Yeah. So that's good. So the main thing the main thing is, well, celebrated for eight days, okay? And why eight days? Well, it was was partly because the oil, which I mentioned, but in the books of Maccabees, it actually, they actually say that this is because the festival that they most recently missed out on was so code Tabernacles, which was an eight-day thing.

1:25:29 So this is there be late. You'll be lated, Tabernacles, okay Square. So so they celebrate that and then so, okay, so with the miracle of the oil, so a common thing is to eat fried foods. So a deep-fried food. So, all kinds of all kinds of everything that's delicious, you know, donuts and you latkes are traditional those potato pancakes, which are really good and anything else you like, we're going to have a party. T on December 23rd. So I know it's close to Christmas and people probably a lot of family parties and stuff but that'll be a Friday evening and we picked that day because that's actually Joseph Smith's birthday. Yeah.

1:26:15 Which in 1805 that was the eighth day of Hanukkah, okay? Joe Smith was born on which is there's some interesting symbolism there in and of itself. Like there's verses in the Doctrine and Covenants to talk about out when the when the time of the Gentiles comes in, they'll be a light that will break forth to those that sit in darkness. And so, of course, Hanukkah is often times, it's in the winter, it's in December. Usually sometime, it floats around, you know, but it's it's during this dark time of the year. And so but then there's this light that breaks forth. In, in the restroom, in the restoration, right?

1:26:55 And and this is the Hanukkah lights. Are if you're if you're Mormon then you can just take that symbolism and it fits perfectly with the restoration of the Gospel. I'm sorry, you still having it fry food. I don't like wow. So back to that issue. So so on. So we usually have you know we have this potluck and we're like everyone bring fried foods. So nice. There's latkes Donuts french fries. You know? I'm going to deep fry a turkey. And those be nice, all manner of goodies, you know? All right. So ever had deep-fried Oreos. I have no, I have not. So if you come I hope that you'll bring those. Yeah.

1:27:36 So and then we usually, you know, will read some will read some scriptures about Jesus. Jesus. Celebrated this a lot of people don't know this too but that Jesus celebrated. Hmm Hanukkah. Yeah, it's in the New Testament. Actually the New Testament is the aside from the books of The Maccabees. The New Testament is the earliest reference we have because I mentioned that the talmud was written a couple hundred years after the New Testament. So the New Testament is the the earliest reference I've had people give me funny. Looks, you know, when I tell them that I celebrate Hanukkah and they're like, yeah. But that's like a Jewish thing in like Christians shouldn't be doing that. I'm like well, Jesus did dude.

1:28:19 Here's the thing. I had that very same thought and and I've mentioned him on the the show, before my buddy Joel. He's like there's nothing that says you have to be Jewish to observe these things, you know? And he said my dad who was a devout, Rabbi had instructed many Christians on how to keep those and he used to say, you know, Christianity in his He was the younger brother so to speak of time absolutely of Judaism, right? And and I make the assertion. You can't understand your Innovation. Yeah, you can't understand your own Christian faith until you go back and you really look at that.

1:29:02 Yeah. Actually, the first and second Maccabees are our only, they're not, they're not in Protestant Bibles, right? But they are in the Catholic Bible. Yep. And and they were in Protestant Bibles for a long time, too. Until I Leave the Apocrypha was taken out in 1885 right out of the King James Bible. And then, of course, it wasn't in any of the other and IV or anything like that as well. But yeah, and it and not in the Jewish Cannon. So the now the Jews, the Jews back in Jesus day, the, the early Christians, they had the Apocrypha because they had the Septuagint Which is the Greek version of the scriptures that was written about this time. So many, so many loose ends.

1:29:50 I haven't tied up. Let me, let me read this ensure that John first. No, no, it's Hanukkah is actually kind of an overwhelming thing to so much to talk about. It's really amazing. Says, in John chapter 10 verse 22. Now, it's traditional. Another thing to celebrate one of the traditional things that's done is to read. Ezekiel 34, which where the Lord is talking about how he is against the Shepherds of Israel, because the shepherds are just abusing the flock and enriching themselves. And that someday, he's going to send a good shepherd. And so, Jesus actually starts off chapter 10 talking about the verse 11.

1:30:38 He says, I am the Good Shepherd for the Good Shepherd, giveth his life for the sheep, and he talks about the hirelings and how they don't, they don't actually take care of the sheep, all of that. And then, and then it says, it was that Jesus gives this Sermon at Jerusalem verse 22 says at Jerusalem, the fees at the Feast of dedication and it was Winter. Now, it says, dedication there and so people, maybe don't catch it, but I get occasion of the 10th, the Hebrew word Hanukkah means Dedication. That is so Festival of Hanukkah is the Festival of dedication because they re dedicated the temple got your time. So and it was Winter, right?

1:31:23 So, Jesus walked in the temple in Solomon's porch. So he was there at the temple for Hanukkah and telling me they had been reading Ezekiel chapter 34 and he tells them hey I'm the Good Shepherd right? Also he's, he's proclaiming again, the prophecies fulfilled that's right. And it's actually interesting because at this because of all of the because of what they expected the Messiah to do, Which was throw off the Romans. And this is at Hanukkah time. And so, there's like, they're basically expecting the Messiah to be Judah, Maccabee, right? And do the same thing that Judah did to the Greeks to the Romans, right?

1:32:10 And so they actually asked him, right? Then after he says, he's there for the Feast of dedication for Hanukkah, and says the Jews around about him said unto him. How long do you make us doubt? If you be Messiah. Tell us plainly. Like tell us, like just tell us up, straight straight. Jesus answered, I told you and you believe not the works that I do in my father's name. They bear witness of me. But ye believe not, because you are not my sheep. So he's like, saying I am the Good Shepherd, but if you don't believe me, I'm then you're not mushy. I'm not right. I'm not the guy for you that you're that. You are looking for. But my sheep do hear my voice and and I am here, right? So so There's the, there's the first reference to celebration of Hanukkah.

1:33:00 So there's so there's good reason to celebrate it. So where do the candles fit in? Yeah, good question. You know, this goes, this goes to the idea of the miracle of the oil and the lights, right? There's many miracles that happened, but the one that gives it its name. The Festival of Lights is because of the the oil that burned for eight days, which was a menorah, right? That's a menorah. That's right. I'm glad You knew that the menorah is actually the name of the Candelabra that's in the temple and it's the seven-branched menorah the seven-branched Candlestick but the the candle, the Candelabra that's used for Hanukkah is called Hanukkah menorah or more or more formally, it's called a Hyundai Kia. So we have a manure, that's a seven branch and the Hanukkah is actually a nine branched candlestick. And the reason why it's nine, it has has, what's it actually? Looks very similar.

1:34:03 You've probably seen them before, but the one in the temple, the seven Branch one has kind of a central one, that's a little taller than the rest, and then it's got three on each side, on the left and the right, the huh new Kia is similar design, but it has one that's a little higher and usually in the middle although not always and then kind of four branches on each side and those four branches. Has on each side for a total of eight branches. Those are for the eight days of Hanukkah but then they have, it's really interesting because there's that one that one candle that is elevated Above the Rest. And that holds the candle that is called the shamash the shamash is the servant candle and that on each night of Hanukkah, on the first night of Hanukkah, you'll put one candle in the first branch and then also a candle in the higher elevated.

1:34:57 Through the marsh bondservant, spot. Yeah. And then that's lit lit. First, and then that candle the show the shamash comes down and lights. The other candles, you know, there's, there's so much symbolism. You can draw from that, right? I mean, my first thought is that, I think that's that's pattern for us those who have been received the gospel, right? We've received the light, we need to be passing that out. Absolutely. And and I can't think of Of a better time of year to do that. Look, whether you celebrate Hanukkah or Christmas, everybody's a little happier. Everyone will more willing to to talk about what they believe in. And You Gotta Love That season for the season of openness, it is and of Charity and love.

1:35:46 Absolutely. And and I always felt like as as As a guy who kind of loves this time of year and I mean it's a big deal around our house, we go all out, it's not for amateurs, right? It's one of those times where I feel like as Disciples of Christ we might have a greater responsibility to spread his light this time of year and I never knew that and so you describe this idea of a servant candle? Yeah, right. I think it's beautiful so it's you know, as Christians Can certainly, we should certainly think about the times when Jesus said I am the light and the life of the world and I'm the light that came into the world. I say, in John chapter 1, he says, I am John says that Jesus is the light that lights every man, right? And we have, we're all entitled to This Light of Christ which is a source of guidance and Revelation for every person who comes into the world.

1:36:50 And, you know, that the source of that At light for us, you comes through Christ. And so he is, he is the ultimate servant who has condescended or come down right to share the light, you know, with as a Son of God with his Brethren here on on earth, right? So, there is that aspect and then I love what you said. I was going to bring that up to is that once we are lit. Then we are also Candles for the Lord, you know, Proverbs Chapter 20. We don't remember the verse I think. Anyway, in Proverbs chapter 28, says that the spirit of man is the candle of the lord. We are light.

1:37:34 We are, we are his lights, his representatives, and on the earth and in a real way, we are, we bear the image of God and we are supposed to hold that up as As a light to the world. You know, Jesus says to not to put your candle under a bushel, right? Yeah. The gospel of Matthew was originally written in Hebrew and it's the Hebrew. There is Jesus says, don't put your Menorah under a bushel but, you know, set it out on the table where will give light to everyone in the room and so any.

1:38:14 So there's a, there's a real call for us to to be both grateful for the light that we I've received and also to remember that kind of responsibility that we have to share that light to pass it along rides around us. Yeah. And we can think of both those things. So you have no, that's that's awesome. Is there any other symbolism that goes with that? That's the, those are the main things, then then of course. And then, of course, as I said, it's there are eight. Branches, and so, so each each night, and this is, this is tradition. Of course, is not laid out, in Maccabees are insured, but it's a beautiful tradition on the first night, there will be one candle. Plus the shaman second night, they'll be two candles, plus a shamisen three and four.

1:39:02 And so each night the light just is growing. And you know that's that's just a that's just kind of a symbolic hope as well that we hope that you know that the scriptures are full of images like this. We hope for the kingdom of God, to grow and to spread and we hope for that, that little stone that was cut out of the mountain to roll and to grow, larger and larger, and we hope that the light will get brighter and brighter, and we know that the darkness is, is getting deeper and deeper as As well. But but but ideally the children of light that the scriptures rights will be able to keep up with and fend off those powers of darkness and spread the light in spite of this increasing darkness.

1:39:57 And it's interesting too because just the time of year, of course is yeah, is in the winter and it's and it's near the solstice. It's not always it's not on the solstice. It's Hanukkah is in near the solstice and so like, the days are getting darker and darker, but we are adding a candle every night and it's getting brighter and brighter. Another tradition about the Hanukkah actually. And this goes with the this Commandment that Jesus gives us to to share our light. The tradition is that the new Kia is not not supposed to be set up, you know, you know, inside your inside your house somewhere, where no one can see it, you're supposed to put it like, on the window sill, right? So that I'm passing by can look and see light coming out of your house so to speak. Literally.

1:40:44 Yeah, yeah. And so that's the other beautiful things about that too. You know. And one of the things too is that and it always becomes more pronounced around this time of year Christmas and Hanukkah is that it doesn't take a lot of light to make the darkness flee. Mmm-hmm right? I mean, as it gets darker White, It becomes more pronounced. Yeah does and and sometimes I think we sell ourselves short that that maybe we're not doing enough but sometimes just being us, right? Is and doing the best we can will not only light our way but we don't know who's way it will light. Yeah. Amen.

1:41:25 I mean it's a It does. You said it perfectly? Especially when it's dark, right? And I think we're light stands out in an amazing way. Yeah. And I think we're coming into a time where it's going to take all of us to be lit, so to speak that's lit in a spiritual way. Not an alcoholic kind of like, but lit lit in a way that I just met. This is horrible. I just immediately had visions of everyone going to boost but anyway, for for us to be enlightened. And right by the Lord's count so that we can spread that around to those who are in need. Yeah, because they're going to go somewhere, right? As it gets darker, they'll either fall into the darkness or we can be the light to be like, don't go that way.

1:42:10 There's no need. Yeah, we can go this way. There's a there. Is a humans are complex, you know? Oh yeah, we're not. Like, we're not like moths. We're just kind of blindly attracted to light and Flames, but but there is kind of a metaphor there and and No one knows that feeling of coming out of the cold into the warmth or out of the darkness into light. And there's, there's Comfort there and there's definitely something both like physically satisfying but Also spiritually, satisfying, that that we want some light. Yeah. And, and I think there could be more, but people are, people are afraid, sometimes they are and to share it. Yeah, yeah, I think, yeah, that's really the trick is getting over that fear, but But yeah, now there's, we are having our party on the 23rd, but on the 18th. So this is the, on the zarahemla calendar. This is going to be the day before. This is the Sunday, 18th is Sunday. So at in the afternoon and this will be on the website to we're going to we're actually going to make candles. So I know if you've ever dipped you know you have not I have not had it with candles.

1:43:24 Yeah yeah. So we're gonna we're gonna We're going to dip a whole set of Hanukkah candles, you know, for anyone who wants to. And I don't remember off the top of my head now, but it's, you know, it's a two on the first night and then three, four, five, six, seven. So, whatever that adds up to, it's 40 or 50 candles, something like that. Wow, that you need for a full for 100 Kia to have all the candles you need. So, that's okay. So that's kind of a fun activity for the kids and stuff. Absolutely sounds great. Other thing is that eating cheese or dairy things. So also get right deep fried stuff and dairy like what could what could be better than that. The reason why I'm all-in I'm going to have to buy some Tums so I need some yeah bring some mozzarella sticks. Like that's the reason why they do that is. There's actually three three books in the Apocrypha that are related to the story of to The Maccabees. Well, maybe more it kind of depends actually there's There's different versions of the Septuagint that were around ancient lie and not all Christian denominations, agree on what the the apocryphal books are supposed to be there. Sometimes called the Deuter deuterocanonical books, the second Cannon, right?

1:44:44 So, anyway, it's about 15 to 18 books but in the, in the King James Apocrypha, there was first and second Maccabees, but in some of the other Some of the other, you know, Eastern Orthodox, I think has there's like a third and a fourth Maccabees as well. Which are kind of related to the story as well. But the other anyway, long story short, the other the other book that's in the Apocrypha is the book of Judith. And so she's traditionally she is the niece of Judah Maccabee. And she's a widow and she basically single-handedly saves her little city from the Syrian Army. That's have you heard of Judith are the story of Judith. So she's kind of she's this female heroine, like kind of like Ester or Yael.

1:45:38 The story of yellin right, judges, right? Where she like pounds of steak through the guy's head while he's sleeping. It's kind of its kind of that kind of story, but she She's very beautiful. She's a widow. The city's. I'll give you the short version here. The city's is being what's it called when they barricade? And they like try to sort of scotch sees yet they're under siege. Thank you. And so she and their Foods running out and they're going to gonna die gonna die. So she the elders in the city they say, unless God does something to save us in five days, we're going to surrender. And she like chastises them says how can you put a timetable on? God, like you should not do this. You should be faithful and wait for God to do it whenever he's ready.

1:46:24 But she has. She has an idea. So she actually leaves the camp. She brings her made with her and she brings a bunch of food that she can eat. She brings a bunch of like cheese and wine and she goes to the Assyrian camp and ask to see their General. And basically tells him I'm going to help you take the city. And I'm going to I'm going to end, this is how it's going to happen. So they're under siege, they're running out of food at some point, they're going to start eating pigs and horses and unclean stuff because they're running out of food. And when they do that then they will be breaking God's Commandments and then he won't bless them. But you have to wait until that happens. Otherwise you won't have God will be with them and you want me to tape so the general his name's holofernes? He says, okay great.

1:47:19 This is great. He tells everyone he Scamp leave these two women alone and they they're going to go back to the town back and forth in between the town and the camp, every day to find out news of when they're running out of food or whatever. So she does this for a couple of nights goes back and forth. And and then finally she tells she tells the general she's like, hey there they're going to be they've just run out of food and so it's only going to be like two days from now. They're going to starvation is going to push them towards breaking the Commandments and then you'll be able to take the city and he's like great. This is great. Let's celebrate in and he invites her to dinner in his tent and And he wants, he wants to she's beautiful, and he wants to seduce her as well. And she knows that she's kind of playing the seductress. And so she says, oh, I'd love to join you for this party. And she pulls out her basket of cheese, and she's like, this is my homemade cheese.

1:48:17 It's the best. And look, this is my homemade wine and, and holofernes tells all his his meant like leave the tent because he wants to be alone with her, right? And she like, basically stuff him full of cheese and gets him slobbering drunk with this wine. That she Made and he passes out and she rolls him onto his stomach and pulls out his sword and cuts off his head while he's asleep and then puts it in the basket where all the cheese was. And then there's like, walks out of the tent quietly and no one disturbs her, and she runs to the town and says everyone get ready to go attack. The, because the Syrian Army right now, because you need to, like, attack them at the first light of day, they will not Expecting it and and also I have the head of the general, right?

1:49:08 And so like they do like they go attack the syrians and they like go to hold of her knees tent-like General. General, they're coming. No answer. No answer it. Open it. The Headless General is on the and then they just scattered Yeahs fear and and disarray. And so tell you what, people often say, they don't read the scriptures because they find them boring and I'm like, man that There's some straight-up gangster stuff in the scriptures, right? Like there's some straight up, you know, action film, kind of stuff. So yeah, so Judith is the saves the day there and so eating cheese is also, that's awesome.

1:49:48 Part is on the on the menu 49 Hanukkah. Nice. All right. Well, dude, that's, that's good stuff. I, I'll definitely be there for the 23rd. That sounds. That sounds fun. What would we miss? Would we gloss over in? Me constantly distracting you with my questions. No, you did good. I was I was going to mention one last thing. Sure, one of the reasons why, you know, Martin Luther and other Protestants didn't really like the Apocrypha was because of second Maccabees. And that was, and that was kind of understandable because you Martin Luther with the 95 Theses. He saw this, these abuses that were happening with indulgences.

1:50:30 And part of the part of the abuse was that the pope was basically saying, hey, if you give me some more money, then I'll give you a little certificate that says that your relative can take some time off of their sentence in purgatory. Well, you know. Yeah. And so, he did not like he saw these tremendous abuses and basically the pope like holding the salvation of people Dead relatives over them in order to milk money out of them. Right? So, he didn't like that, but in he basically said, Martin, Luther's, like we can't we can't do anything for the dead. We have no power over their salvation or whatever, but in second Maccabees chapter 12, I think There's this, there's this episode, I'm just going to read it. Sure.

1:51:29 It's pretty amazing, you know, if you're Mormon, you'll appreciate this obviously. So after the there's this battle, So they the see ya after the battle Judas LED, his men. This is in verse 38 of chapter 12, like I said, second Maccabees after the battle Judas. LED his men to the town of a dual. Mm. It was the day before the Sabbath. So they purified themselves, according to Jewish custom and they observe the holy day by the following day. It was urgent that they gather up the bodies of the men who had been killed in battle and bury them in their family tombs. Now, this is interesting because they Judah and his men, they had kind of some Stripling Warrior kind of battles were like, no one was injured.

1:52:16 Like they just killed hundreds of Greeks and not a single. One of them was injured. So, in this particular battle is talking about is again, like, pretty much everyone is unscathed, but there's like this handful of guys who died. So, anyway, so so it was urgent that they gather at the bodies of the men who had been killed in battle and bury them in their family tombs, but on each of the Dead. Hidden underneath their clothes. They found small images of the Gods worshipped in Jama know which the law forbids you to choose to wear. So I had these little islands around, Iraq, right? And so, So they praised the ways of the Lord just judge who reveals what is hidden and they, and they begged him that this sin might be completely blotted out, so they're praying for the dead.

1:53:04 Then Judas. That great, man, urged, the people to keep away from sin because they had seen for themselves. What had happened to those men who had sinned. And he also took up a collection from all his men totaling about four pounds of silver and sent it to Jerusalem to provide for a sin offering. Judas did this Noble thing. Because he believed in the resurrection of the dead and if he had not believed that the dead would be raised, it would have been foolish and useless to pray for them. But in his firm and devout conviction, that all of God's faithful, people would receive a wonderful reward Judas made provision for a sin offering to set free from their sin. Those who had died. Wow. So he's basically doing vicarious work for the dead but he's but they're doing the ironic ordinances, right? But I said, yeah, but they're doing sacrifice, you know, soon. Frank's vicariously for these deaths. So cool and that's one of those things where it's like I've said, for a long time, it's one of the reasons I love talking to Ken Peterson and and and and, you know, Hannah Stoddard is that as Mormons, we have every right. And every reason to believe that our faith is historical, right? And that just, that just shows there for so long. We hung vicarious work on the dead alone on what Paul says about, you know, right in Corinthians about but But you have it all the way back in the, you know, in the temple. Yeah, absolutely.

1:54:26 In the Old Testament period vicarious work for the dead as Mormons, we should expect to see that. And I think, as more and more books and this is the other thing. People forget about the Apocrypha, it's growing all the time. As we discover more and more ancient text, it's growing all the time and so in doing, so we're starting to see Certain Mormon teachings being brought to the Forefront in ancient documents, I think it's, it's absolutely awesome. So okay, also I've got I think well I just want to wrap up with this. Is that We all have holidays that that are familiar to us because that's how we were brought up, right, right. Those Jewish ones.

1:55:12 Maybe not so much but I see no reason at all where where you can't have Christmas and Hanukkah too. Yeah there is nothing. There that tells me that those things can't go together and have crossover in in snow cone machine, fell Hanukkah. Yeah, absolutely absolutely. And and so I know no, I have certainly been enriched as I've studied out these these the, the Jewish calendar because So many of them walk hand in hand, I think you can definitely see God putting types and shadows here until we got a better handle on things and and so this season just read second Maccabees it's an inspiring story. I mean it's the kind of story.

1:55:58 Mel Gibson was trying to get it. He was, he was trying to get a Maccabees movie. Oh, really man, who would make a great movie and make a great movie? It's very brave. Heart ask right? I mean, and so I am doing research for this episode. But I found that that he's got a full script that's waiting for someone to want to, that's cool. Yeah. So I mean get out your dreidels yet. One other thing, I forgot celebration the dreidels, of course, dreidel game. You know, there's has the Hebrew letters on it and Hebrew letters aren't actually an acronym for a sentence. Okay. There's a, there's a noon gimel. Hey, and a shin. Okay. So those are the four letters around it, but it stands for a Hebrew sentence.

1:56:39 Nace gudell, Haya sham, nace's Miracle. Good ol is great, hiya is occurred, or was, and Sharm means they're so the that when you spin the dreidel, it says it goes around and around and around Saying A great miracle happened there, huh? So that's the that's awesome. You can look up the rules. Yeah, it's a fun game. We like to play. Play it and that's awesome. All right, so it's tough. So the the Hanukkah party on the 23rd. Yep. And they can get all that info at zarahemla, Facebook pages. Yep. Yeah. I don't know if it's been posted yet. Probably has been, but it'll probably be will probably start, you know, five or six in the evening and awesome and the first and second book of Maccabees, that's where they can experience that and the Book of Judith also in the highly recommend. Okay.

1:57:32 And then, what about if Someone is interested in kind of keeping Hanukkah. Where they, where can they find information on that? Yeah. Again, I mean, I'll say the same things I've kind of said before, there's a website called Hebrew for Christians. Okay. That's a really good and and there's a number of other books that you can get. The just have kind of kind of a brief beginners synopsis of the biblical feast and you even biblical Feast from a Christian point of view. And there there's a number of excellent ones so just go on Amazon or whatever. Awesome. All right. Well, dude, that that's great. Next one's Purim and is right, let me ask Esther, let me ask you this question.

1:58:17 When is Hanukkah this year? So it's, you know, I was afraid. You were going to ask that. I want to say that it starts on the about the 18th of December, okay? And goes to, Go through like the 25th or 26th may be. So, there you go. Overlap overlaps with Christmas this year. Nice. So I don't have the exact dates but it's about. Okay, you can find that on the thank you, really? Yeah, awesome. All right, well go read. Maccabees get, I feel like that book to is really good to read towards the end of the year, those books because kind of fires you up and get you ready for? Whatever is coming the next year but all right, Joshua dude, it's always awesome. I appreciate it measure.

1:59:01 All right. Bye everybody.