Episode #32: Solutions for Preserving Liberty & Fulfilling Our Mandate as Mormons W/Enoch More Founder of Defending Utah

0:04 So just the other day, I was sitting down with a good friend and we were kind of talking about the podcast and he said, Dave, I love what you're doing with the podcast but you have a few episodes that seemed out of place for a podcast about Mormonism. And so intrigued, I asked them, which ones are you talking about? He said the ones you've done on Liberty and freedom and politics. Now in response I read the following quote to him from Brigham Young. And this comes at a journal of discourses volume 12 page, 204 there. Brigham says every organization of Government. The best government in the world is crumbling to Pieces. Those who have it in their hands are the ones who are destroying it. How long will it be? Before the words of the Prophet? Joseph Smith will be fulfilled. He said, if the Constitution of the United States were saved, it must be done by this people, meaning the Mormons Brigham then goes on and says it will not be many years. Before these words come to pass, see Joseph Smith Brigham, Young and many other early church leaders understood that the gospel.

1:03 Could only thrive in an environment of Liberty. So that's why I have these episodes on the podcast about Liberty and Freedom. The two are intertwined and can't be separated. Furthermore, going back to that, quote by Brigham Young. That one part where he said, if the Constitution of the United States were saved at all. It must be done by this people. This is part of our divine mandate as Mormons to hold up the Constitution of the United States. And to save it on this episode, I sit down and have a conversation. With Enoch more Enoch is the founder of Defending Utah. We have a fascinating conversation where we not only talk about the issues facing Utah on the nation, but more importantly the solutions for ensuring our continued Liberty and in turn the ability to continue to practice our religion. And that's next on this episode of the Mormon Renegade podcast. So, I just want to take a moment to thank you. The Listener, when I started this podcast I wasn't sure if anyone would really listen.

2:02 Now to my surprise, this thing has taken on a life of its own and that's all due to you the listener, spending your time here with me, and it means a great deal to me now, as a husband and father, I'm keenly aware of how important time is. It feels like there's just never enough of it. So when you are spending your time here, listening to this podcast, I feel a responsibility to never waste your time in that Spirit as this podcast has grown. I feel like I need to do you the listener. This, I want to continue to produce good content and upgrade the audio quality that takes better equipment and better software and that all takes money. Now, I've tried to advertise, but you'd be surprised. There's not a lot of people want to advertise on a Mormon fundamentalist podcast. I know surprising right now if you want to help support the podcast, you can do that.

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4:15 Welcome back to the Mormon Renegade podcast as always you can get ahold of me either by email at Mormon Renegade at gmail.com. You can also get a hold of me on Instagram and Twitter and getter under the handle. Mormon Renegade. Also we have a website up and that's Mormon Renegade.com, so go check that out. So today on the podcast, I'm super excited. I have on Enoch more. And for those of you who follow Liberty and Utah whatsoever, you're going to recognize that name. He is the founder of Defending Utah and one of the reasons I had him on is because I feel like more than anybody else, perhaps, he offers solutions to what's really going on. My life has been a weird set of inflection points. One is, is when I joined the LDS church and became Mormon, right? That was a big one, the other one came because of all things a football game, I'm a huge Green Bay Packers Fan right. My buddy, Mike he's a huge Philadelphia Eagles fan. They just played this phenomenal playoff game and so we got to talk and I wonder if they're playing next season and sure enough we find out they are they're playing on a Monday night.

5:36 So we take this trip out to Philadelphia. This is about 2004. To watch Green Bay and Philly play. But why were there? We thought, you know, let's take in the sights. It's go see Independence Hall. Let's go look at the Liberty Bell, blah, blah, blah, And while I've always been an avid history buff, I wasn't necessarily focused on the the revolutionary period. But I remember when I walked into Independence Hall and I get Goose Bumps talking about it. Now, the spirit was there and it said, something important happened right here and that got me reading. And as I started to read, and again, this is 2004.

6:19 So we're three years removed from 9/11. Right? And for anyone who's younger than that used to be able to walk into an airport, like an hour and just go through a quick security screen. You're on the plane down, naked body scanners, just no naked bodies. Yanar. See how so no CSA? Exactly. So, as I started looking, I realize how far off course we were and that inspired me to read as much as I can. So talking to someone like yourself, I'm gonna super geeked out over this because I really am a fiend. Or the founders idea. So I can't tell you how much I appreciate you being here. Why I'm excited that you're invited me. Thank you.

7:01 So real quick. How did how did this all come about, right? Because like I pointed out there's usually inflection points in people's lives. What was yours to get you to being the, the founder of Defending Utah? So, you know, I'll going back a long time. You know, I I always understood. The sacred nature of the Constitution with the LDS background that I have. And as our Taft Benson was always echoing in my mind, you know, you will be the generation that will meet your God. And then sending you know, the greatest speaker for Liberty, you know that we've had in modern times arguably, Ron Paul's pretty amazing too.

7:58 I agree. So I guess we won't make it a contest of who's the greatest. That's not my point. My point is, he was amazing. And so that, that always was in the back of my mind, I have, you know, Constitution matters. And there's this thing called get an robbers. That Right. And that just kind of germinated slowly as I grew up and as I just live my life to to a certain point and I hit a point in Maybe around 2008's and where I watched a film Aaron Russo freedom to Fascism.

8:42 Okay. That was when I first wake up film and it was like, Having the whole idea of getting robbers and seek. Accommodations in my head I always thought. What if you could like study the world and figure out who they were? But it was always this elusive, almost like romantic movie idea of of what they were and then all of a sudden I see this film and I'm like That plus I learned about Saul Alinsky dedicating his book because it's so you're yeah. And then I'm thinking, wait a minute Rules for Radicals, this thing is real for Radicals. That's right. I'm thinking this is like right in front of my face a little bit and and so I watched a number of other videos new world order to find was a next one. And it was all within like a few days. I watched all these videos and I'm just like Nah, I'm just, I'm getting too excited here.

9:38 Like, you know, these big conspiracies, I'm looking Beyond The Mark, you know, I need to just like, take a break from all this for a few days. And I had to like headed, germinate, how to think about it. But, but then, as I thought about it, seriously and I studied more, and then, as I watched more Benson, and I took the Constitution seriously, and I know I got a lot of the basics on the, the founding fathers from great. Like I started coming across a lot of John Birch videos and also Stephen braat member him. Yep, I do over 64. I went to some of his lectures there when he was alive and my gosh I loved the ideas and he spoke with a lot of internal testimony of Liberty when when he talked about things and his presentation. So I was influenced deeply by that but it became this critical mass of knowledge.

10:35 From like this generic idea of conspiracy and secret combinations of knowing about my whole life has become so real. And now there's this practical understanding of its relationship to our duties. And and we're supposed to understand and learn and stand for what's right in this world. So that was like, you know, a period 2000, 2008 2010, ish and and I just We serious study, I read every book I could find. I looked into, you know, all the organizations that were coming across social media, and emails and spend some time.

11:18 So first I came to this understanding of the solutions to all of our problems were already given to us by the founding fathers, right? So at a national level the Constitution is the answer to everything. Right. But then and of course not just Not just the document, but internalizing understanding the principles that were enshrined in it. So that, of course, takes further study read The Federalist Papers. And what would the experiences that brought the founders to the things they put in there and why they're there so forth? But I thought. Okay, so easy answer if we just had politicians to follow the Constitution and Congress that would like fix all these problems. The conspiracy makes that hard because it's not just that simple.

12:02 But I thought, what does that mean? At the local level? II. I spent some time. Now in the John Birch Society, some other organizations that I dabbled in by the way is campaign for Liberty. This Sutherland Institute which I write as I. Yeah. Which I then learned that they were not on the side of Liberty, they were conservative right? But they were they I was studying, you know, Obamacare LED and how that was coming down and I was like, hey, this thing you're supporting is actually part of Obamacare. So I was done with that and I was always looking at, you know, for good organizations and it was Benson's talk. That said the John Birch Society is the most effective organization in standing up for Freedom. The talk that he gave that I was like, oh, we're those guys has no, let's check them out.

12:55 And I, so, I did a lot of activism with them, and I created a chapter, I taught Constitution courses through them, at my local library, I Sighs. Hey, come learn about the Constitution. And so, that was fun and I learned a lot from Robert Brown of the John Birch Society. He's a, he's with their constitutional teacher. He lives in Utah and now he's a great guy. You know who he is? Yeah bro. Yep I've heard of him. I haven't met the gentleman. Yep, he's got a lot of great stuff. A lot of good content can find online. and one of the things that the John Birch Society taught me as a chapter leader, they have these videos as it said, how to build effective chapters so, I took that to heart. I try to take everything to heart, right? I tried to really make a difference in everything I did here.

13:48 And so they talked about separating your chapter with someone assigned to, you know, different duties and delegating. But then having someone focused on local issues. I was like, that's great. Like that's really what we need because I'm trying to figure out what does this mean? Locally, know, how do I vote on my city council and so forth? Interrupt me anytime, by the way, knows a good have a lot. You're good. You're here. Good. Yeah, you're at listen more of you and less of me is always a good thing. So feel free. So so the so I started this blog called the offending Utah so that I could write about my Adventures. It was initially my John Birch activism. Okay.

14:31 To it was an outgrowth of that because I learned about Agenda 21, I started investigating the city planning code of all the cities because I learned how to identify if your cities implementing Agenda, 21 and so forth. I went to me. In Provo called the Provo 50 Summit. And and I saw how Agenda 21 work, they how they how these meetings happen, where they pretend to get community input with a pre-planned agenda. I learned later was called the Delphi method, right? Real quick, for anyone who doesn't know, explain what Agenda 21 is. So I'll probably actually get into that a little more later because we're going to talk about Okay, lucian's but as a brief intro, it's is the United Nations program to implement Global communism, under the excuse of environmentalism and that's kind of what what I had taken away after I read it. Because I remember I first heard about this probably 2010, I guess is when I first heard about it and as a land surveyor, I'm always curious about land law and they used a lot of landline there, right, right.

15:49 And and bottom line is and like you said, we'll get into it more, it was more about trying to get people to Cluster into the mega cities, right? And then depopulating, the, the center of the country. Is that good /. Absolutely absolutely. And, and it's funny how how the Under the excuse of environmentalism they want to say. Let's preserve the Wilderness areas out here by moving all the people in here. And the excuse today is environmentalism but you can go back 100 years communist Nations have always done the DIY density housing type thing. Yep. And so it's how they control the population. So if you don't own land and property and your borders and like an apartment building, your property rights are naturally swallowed up with your neighbors because you share the same wall you up. You don't need legislation to say now. You got to think about the greater good a little bit more because The your wall is shared with your neighbor and you have to respect each other's, you know, probably, right? So these are natural ways to take away our freedoms by losing property rights in can't grow food, you know? And when you're a smaller space it's easier to implement surveillance on a population and just so many of those things that add up to why that works for the tyrants. You know, the other thing you talked about or the You said something that caught my eye.

17:17 And that was earlier. You said, when you were first learning about this, you said, I'm just looking Beyond The Mark, right? I need to ruminate that was one of the things that drove me nuts, right? Is talking to other mormont's, right? Because as Mormons, we are one of the few denominations, I'm trying to think of another and maybe there are some and I just can't think of it where the few who believe that the The Declaration of Independence, the Constitution, the Bill of Rights, those are our darn near scripture, right? Those comes from the lips of God to righteous men for a righteous cause, right? And so as I would talk to people about whether it was Agenda 21 or some of these other things in there, like I don't believe in conspiracy and I remember thinking, but you believe the Book of Mormon, right?

18:10 And that's thing is littered with conspiracy especially at the end. So So, but those are just interesting stories. Someone robbed and right, right? And I'm like, bro, this is a sacred record of historical facts of the most important things we need to see and people forget that there's, there are two ways God is dealing with his people. One is on a, on a personal level, right? A person and their family, and those kind of covenants. But we forget that the Book of Mormon, even as It may be a little bit more deals with the national Covenant, as well, right?

18:51 Where, hey, if you do these things, you'll be preserved here. But you screw off, you don't walk up to this, National Covenant will. Why I'll wipe you off the land? Yeah, right. And I think that things like Jamestown, you know, we forget that there were certain settlements that never got up and running probably because they weren't, Hadn't figured that Covenant out yet, and they were just wiped out. And, and it drove me nuts a lot, because I feel like we, as Mormons, we ought to know better, right? We got a whole book of scripture that happened here. Right. Absolutely so yeah that's that that just that just caught me by surprise.

19:34 So you get you get your blog going. When does defending Utah really begin to blossom into the organization is sure so so you know for a while it was just finding these things that nobody's talking about behind the scenes in the cities. That was kind of my first you know discoveries you know, watching how these these meetings Where they're just, you know, railroading all of us, you know, and when no one's looking and then they'll say well we had a meeting, didn't you show up and give us your opinion you know and same pattern. They use around the world and actually confronted a un lady in 2019 on that very thing.

20:16 Nice she goes well we have to because otherwise you're like children and you won't along with the like yeah that's a video. We never put out but I got the footage. Oh yeah. So anyway, that was a little fast for it. So I'm putting out these things in the blog as we're starting to learn things and you know definitely we're learning as we go here. Right? We just have a passion for doing the right thing, uncovering truths and we're creating our social media presence. And not first, it was just me publishing, you know what I write. And then very quickly, we start to gather other Come on board and it was, it was in about 2000. Let's see 2015.

21:11 So 2013 is when I started the blog early 2013, and by 2015, we put together a presentation We called it stopping modern-day Gaddy at and robbers, right? So we've done on this investigation, This research of remember how I said we that that we're looking for local things where I said I wanted to know, this is the solution nationally. What's the solution locally? Well Robert, well to the John Birch Society had identified the problem and the solution, but to me it was like National. The problem is the conspiracy. That's why they're so effective. They called the enemy. What it is.

21:52 It's a Pharisee. So you didn't beat around the bush and that, that led the jumper Society, to be able to understand strategies and tactics that were effective without calling it that. And identifying, as that your Solutions, often times become part of the problem or just pointless, right? And that's because of, there's a conspiracy and they have controlled opposition activist. So, looking here, that locally Right? We had gone down this Rabbit Hole of investigating. Where is that conspiracy locally? Our own backyard, right? And so long story short, we put together all of our initial findings into this presentation.

22:35 Where we did this event sold out within days titled, it stopping modern day getting and robbers and people got really excited about it. And we just went through the history of the From 1776, from who started with the Bavarian Illuminati that was around for 10 years and we trace the conspiracy up through time. The the Bavarian Illuminati was an an actual Organization for 10 years and then went underground after they were found out and the authorities went after them for conspiracy to overthrow the governments of Europe, to to if I'm not mistaken George washed. There's actually a handwritten letter I know I'm not mistaking because I've seen it from George Washington, who was a Freemason who was warning other Mason's about not letting members of the Illuminati into Freemasonry, That's, I don't know if he has written letters.

23:37 If I've seen that exact one, you're referring to, but we quote some of the George Washington letters in our initial presentation that we came up with and and that is still available. So but absolutely, you're right. Like, the original Freemasonry was there. It wasn't like, people say, oh, the Masons are the Illuminati or something like that. And that's not. How does that work? That The the Illuminati was a branch in Bavaria, right? And it will in their in their own words, they talked about how they infiltrated some local lodges, they're trying to use that influence and then they were found out and, you know, and that was how it started anyway the landscape today, you know, as a whole different discussion. But as far as in the beginning, you know, when you talk about Joseph Smith being a Mason and Is watching them? Yeah, that that is not synonymous with Illuminati, right?

24:35 That that's the point, right? And people in, that's very clear from the history. But anyway, so we trace the Bavarian Illuminati because we start there now that this conspiracy goes back to Kane shut, but you can trace it very clearly throughout history without question going back to 1776 when Adam Weiss helped form this. And it came up with his official like the doctrines of the Illuminati, Which are, you know, you can lay it side by side with the Communist Manifesto, right? And so this is how you identify the opposite of the things that actually promote Liberty, these principles, you know, as far as, you know, Taxation and the abolition of private property and those sorts of things.

25:19 So, going forth, their Illuminati disbanded and you can trace it to another organization called the club of the Jacobins. And then, you can trace that Another organization called the carbonari, which you can trace the mafia out of that. And, and it just goes on and on. And on, you can trace this to Modern revolutionary tradition. So we outline that to everybody said, hey guys, there's a conspiracy here's where it started. Here's the high level points. Here are some of our sources and some books, you can read and and then we traced, it all it all the way through to Utah. And up to modern day and said, here's a problem in your own backyard. We want to do something about it and so that was kind of, when you say grew into the organization you had today, that was when we first presented, this idea the public and we invited people to be involved.

26:14 And they're already where people involved at that point, but it was, it was like the started really telling people. Here's some good ideas, we can Implement. And from that point forward we have I can say for sure. My mindset has always been what do we do about it. Right. There's so much you can learn in the world about what problems are out there. There's far less on real practical application of what to do about it. And sometimes, you know, I mean I didn't have clearly I don't have all the answers and I didn't have all the answers and you know, what are all the answers? But I had a passion to understand how you find the answers and what are the principles that we build our answers upon.

27:00 And so you can see over the years, I have a couple power points where I walk through our solution strategies over the years and how they've evolved. And actually, what I'm working on right now is a decade, culmination of the patterns of the solutions. And now here's where we are today. And so I'm planning to hopefully unveil that this year, nice. And I may give some teasers at the Firm Foundation Expo. Not sure haven't finished that presentation, nice. But but my goal is to have that out there so that we can Help. People feel empowered. I feel it's so empowering when you have, when you internalize the solutions and these solutions they came from, the founding fathers. And they've come from our years of experience of trying, one thing and trying another seeing one thing work in the, John Birch Society, seeing something else work with the penny tossing?

27:56 Something else fell. I was obsessed with what works and why what didn't work? How come that failed? This is, this has been my passion. And, and then, when I what I feel, I've come to I look back at the founding fathers. I'm like, that's what they did. They have passion and and it's not talking about, oh, we need to have a revolutionary war. That's not the point. Not the point at all. The coin are the principles of Liberty. They stood on and the philosophies that how they acknowledge natural law, and how empowered we are to take control of our own lives and our Teas, and, and that's kind of what I want to get across to people, to help people feel empowered, no matter where you are in the world, the same natural law principles can be implemented effectively. Dude, I couldn't agree with you more and so often and I think it's natural especially in the time we live in. Now, in this age, that, that I contend we haven't seen since certainly the Real Revolution as far as these technology advancements.

29:09 And I think we tend to want to look forward for answers, right? Probably, because we're at Texas I-80. Now what's the latest and greatest thing? However, principles work differently and sometimes when you find in and I'm about to make my audience, throw up again because they've heard this as a land surveyor, right? You go and you measure something and let's say you're off. Two seconds in your angle right, in a foot it doesn't make a difference in 100 feet. It doesn't make a difference maybe even in a thousand feet. You're only seeing a couple hundreds of a foot but you go far enough and you're going to miss your mark and you're going to miss your mark and Tire.

29:57 And sometimes we need a course. Correction. We need to check where it is. We started from And then go right. Oh hell, we lost our way. Yeah. And then get back on that. So sometimes it takes looking backwards to find the answer that we need. Now, I'm not look, I'm too lazy to live in the 1700's again because I just really like football and sitting on the couch and watching TV. Right? So I'm not going back to that but those principles are Timeless. Yeah. And so going back is super, super important. The other thing you said there that I think I'm glad you said it, and it's something I want to drive home. Is this idea that what's let's not grab our guns yet, right? I don't want a, bloody Revolution. I believe that the founders gave us the system. We have now So that we could have a revolution every couple years.

30:57 If we're smart enough in our voting patterns. And if we truly look at things, well, it's definitely something to be said about voting system, not functioning properly sure. Sir, right. And so sometimes you don't want, I don't want to give the easy, you know. It's not like the system works and so we have traditional Solutions. People sell us. Write your Congressman, you know, run for office yourself, get elect, you know those are all good things when things are working in a healthy way. But the founding fathers, they were in his position where they the same problem. Things were not working in a healthy way, read the Declaration of Independence, what were their grievances, right? You're like, inventing, these courts, you're just throwing us in jail for no reason.

31:40 You're doing another got this whole list of things and that you're violating the British constitution he had limits on his powers, right? They talked about pretend legislation, you can't write those laws. They're doing all the things today that they were doing back that clearly worse, right? So, They didn't say also, you know, let's just use our system, but but they didn't go straight to what you're saying, right? There's, there's an intelligent way to understand, natural law in and how this applies? So let me see if I can explain this. So, generally people think, Governments doing this.

32:21 Let's change the law so they can't do it. That's kind of the first go to in your brain. Right? Well let's get our Congressman to change the law or and if things are functioning properly that could remedy problems, right? But but experience has shown that you can't, they're going to keep making illegal laws. They're going to keep making mandates that they're not allowed to make by law that the Constitution restricts them, from doing their going to keep pretending like it's okay that they do it, right? So they done so much, you know, they made such a mess of the system and they've confused Us in so many ways.

33:06 It's like to rely on law man's law. It's become so vague and abstract, and what can you depend on whereas nature, never changes, right? So if you could understand the law, Laws of nature and see how those laws of nature, apply, you can create cause and effects in a way. You don't care what laws. They write. The laws of nature was still apply, right? Gravity will always be the same, whether you legislate it and say gravity is illegal. But this is the same laws that govern the rise and fall of power and influence. These are natural laws. And the way the conspiracy has destroyed our nation is, is it's more through the natural laws. They're taking advantage of, then the legislative, the, the politics that they play follows the culture first and they use natural laws to change the culture. So Fluence.

34:08 And and so this is also what the founders did and a lot of what I'm going to talk about in my presentation, when I do that. So I agree with you that they're doing a lot of the same things that that they did. You know that the crown did to the colonists. I guess the one thing that gives me hope is that we already have a framework in place, right? Yeah. And and so in a lot of ways, I look at it and I say we don't need a Bloody Revolution. What we need is to get back. To what we were doing. Totally right. And and and I think we can can preserve it that way. The other thing that I would say is that they're still nullification, right?

34:52 I mean which is, which is my that's actually one of the biggest points nullification it, relies on the natural law, it's an area check and balance, right? And and then and then yeah, through nullification there there, I feel like there's a lot we can do. I will say this, if we're going to go down the Nullification route, which I'm totally in favor of, we have to be willing to go to jail, right? And I hate to say it that way, but we're talking about peaceful nonviolent. but resistance right that will the founders certainly sign this sacred on us he ever out but I believe that even a properly implemented I think it will won't be as necessary even that as some people fear because because natural laws on our side.

35:45 Yeah. That if that's my point and it's hard for me to totally get into that without showing you my presentation. That's not here that have unveiled yet, but, but it's the idea of nullification. It's very simple where I mask I don't want to write and as soon as three people don't wear the mask or 10 people, Wearing it then, you know that catches on. And so I guess I can speak a little bit to how this works. I guess I don't want you ruining your presentation. Yeah, no, no. So so there was a The tyrants in power want to keep the illusion that they are in control, right? So if they say everyone wear a mask and everyone does they say good job.

36:33 You're doing that because we told you so People stopped wearing it. It's a few Misfits, they'll make fun of you on the news. Bill you know crazy man. At the grocery store wouldn't wear his mask and now old lady died of covid, you know, but if if half the people in the community just don't do it or or even just a small chunk and Then it can, everyone else is like, I don't want to wear that either. This is what happened when when the school's stop pushing it. If you remember, at the end of the school year in the 2021 school year, There was finally one school board oz in southern Utah. That said, students don't have to do it. This is a less than a month.

37:18 I believe before the school year ended and up to this point the governor was saying there's a mandate in effect. So You know, till the end of the school year. But as soon as the school did put that in place and half the kids show up, not wearing it. And now it's and then, and then very shortly. Nobody's wearing it. The governor says oh we're releasing the Mandate right as if that was my plan all along. So you'll find that when communities work together intelligently and effectively and they're educated on what they're doing. They know why they don't have to wear a mask not just doing it because they're mad. They're, you know, they're, I'm not going to wear masks because I don't want you to tell me what to do. It's it's they understand what their rights are and they can intelligently.

38:09 Relate them to the, to the rest of the community, who may not, you know, know why you're not listening to the rules and that catches on, there's a community effect, right? There's, there's an overall effects and tyrants back down is they don't want to look like, they're not in charge. So, let me ask you this. Do you think that what happened in southern Utah? There, do you feel like that that was a coordinated effort? Or do you think that was just a natural outgrowth of people? Finally, Being like we're all going to get this. It's the you know it's a bad flu or whatever it is and they just stop doing it or do you believe it was more coordinated. So there was I can tell you.

38:51 There are some coordination that we were involved in some of the individuals down there that were okay, that were doing that. And we had we had friends down there, we had gone done, some presentations, and there were some very good people down there that you know, we all helped Inspire each other. As we get together and we talk about these things. So there was a I don't know the whole story so I don't want to like miss any details of someone who knows. Her story is like there but I know some of the players and There, there was already a bubbling influence down there and people saying we need to push something, we'd organized a little bit, so that's where I say the natural law Committees of safety and Committees of Correspondence.

39:43 And that's based on the natural law, natural as possible. That's why the founders gave us the right to assemble. They needed to know that when government was completely bad, We could reassemble and we could we could as a community go back and tell our local tyrants. No, go away. Go away. Who's in charge, right? The right to assemble, is so essential. And comes away before, you know, saying we need a revolution. Use your right to assemble first. There's so much power in that and but not just assemble for no reason. I think this is where there's or responsible merging of leveraging, the right to assemble with the right education. and then I think that's a lot of what my presentation is going to write how we use our right to assemble and, and it becomes nullification at the community level and So I lost my train of thought. I don't know if we answer the question. Yeah, I think so.

40:48 Let me ask you this because this is something that I have felt now. For probably Well, probably, since since covid, went into the deep dark lockdowns, right? The government instituted, those which is I feel like the national level is gone, right? It's been taken and now we need to focus more at home, right? Local lawyer, state or county, or city. You think that's a fair assessment. You think we're going to have to? I think, for so long, we've looked towards Washington for the answers. And I'll just tell a quick story. I remember I was so taken aback by that Toria story.

41:31 I told you earlier about when I was in Independence, Hall it, spurred a move. I move my entire family out to the eastern shore of Maryland, so I could be closer to the history. Did some cool things right? Well, retrace went to Washington surveys. Turn an angle off the Mason-Dixon Line, right? This some really cool things. but I remember I took my family to Philadelphia and we walked, you know, Down Independence, Hall to the little home that still exist. Were Jefferson said he left Philadelphia to escape this sweltering summer to write the the, the Declaration of Independence and then we went to Washington and we walk down K Street. And I remember my son at, he was probably Probably eight. I remember, he looked at me, said, I feel achy here, right? And so I, I'm like, no, there's a good reason for that, right? I mean, we're walking through some, some, some rough stuff here.

42:37 I mean, and it was a nice part of town, but it was where all the special interest was? It was where all the real stuff happened. But I remember thinking even then, and then it's crystallized in the last couple of years, we can't look to Washington anymore for Solutions, right? I think everyone gets taken with this idea of who's going to be president and I'm like I don't care anymore. Yeah, right. Let's let's focus on what's Happening Here in Utah and Utah County. He was never intended to be the most powerful, man. No, no, no. Order the never intended use.

43:17 He had very limited function, executive of the very limited enumerated powers. Yeah, it was it was set up and you probably know better than I do. It was set up so that you didn't care who was president, right. Right. At the end of the day it wouldn't have impacted your life very much, right. Exactly. And I think it doesn't have to today still and it only does because of a media circus, right? That that goes on. Well, That we've seen, we've just seated more power to Washington over and over and over, right? So now it kind of does matter but it matters because we can stick to the plan. Well, part, I think part of that is because people don't understand.

44:03 How government works, right? And in general, you think they have the power bi and can make an announcement that says everyone wear masks nationally. Now we all got to do it, how many people would just do it? Because they think that's the power that he has right versus if you know he doesn't have that right? It's just a silly ridiculous thing he said on TV you go about your life for a lot of it. I think there is a mental aspect as much as actual, you know, power with an enforcement. Some some agency, right? A lot. There's a lot of mental and it starts with the mental anyway before you understand that some random agency doesn't have the power, they say they're having.

44:45 So so, you know, so your question was on the local level and I want to talk about Samuel Adams and is education and why? And why I love him. And so yes, this the solutions are local weather. We have a good government or a bad government, the solution Our local, even if the New World Order gets fully implemented and everyone's got a microchip and the worst tyranny. You can imagine the solutions always start right here and your family from the ground up, so like Nationals never lost. But if your locals lost you can't get to your National level, right? So we have a long ways to go to fix a lot of local areas before you can even ask the national question.

45:31 So I think that's it's like the wrong. It's like we fix National these. You just we always have to think starting local. Absolutely. And to start local. You know, Samuel Adams recognize that the colonists needed to be educated, not an issues, but in the ability to reason out their own rights in their own minds, so that no matter what tyranny they faced, they can say that's wrong. And that's where I know why that's wrong. And and so, he saw the power, that's the foundation of America was in the education of the general population, on the principles of Liberty.

46:14 In what their rights are. And so he dedicated 20 years of his life before he he, you know, There was a period of time dedicated 20 years of his life to just the education of the colonists, I guess, two other things too. But but the point was he spent 20 years educating the people so they can reuse it out their own rights. And so there is an aspect. We have to accept the responsibility of educating ourselves. We can't say, I love the Constitution but you've never opened that pocket constitutions picked up at some point, right?

46:55 We can't, if if we can't Through it and explain to our teenager, what this line means. And that line means no. How can we say? We love it. And, and the more you understand, even the nitty-gritty reasoning for all the different words in the Constitution, then you start to understand really what's right? And what's wrong in in national and local government so forth. I can give you very clear example, 2019, a flower shop on State Street is is getting harassed by the city and and really the supplies you could go in any City.

47:35 Look in the meeting minutes for the Planning Commission and just see who they're harassing that week, right? Which business you now have businesses, you can go to, to, to relate to to hear their story. These are people who need the community to stand with them. They need to know what their rights are. They know they're getting hose somehow. you know, but they couldn't most of them couldn't explain how and so the state constitution has a limitation cause on on our legislation, on our legislators that says, That you know, private property will means remain Supreme and a free market will govern.

48:24 The will be the policy of the state of Utah. There's various Clauses in there that are principle-based and based on those principles you know you can start seeing things cities are doing and city code. They can come onto your business and tell you don't have enough trees right on your front yard, you know, the principle is that you own your property. Unless you're harming your neighbors, life, liberty or property, then you get to be left alone. And and if your neighbor is not the one complaining, you know, there may be some edge cases, there may be some you know, I'm not a hundred percent opposed to like CDs and general nonspecific zoning to a point, right? But even then it's like unnecessary but I wouldn't even tell Dad I on all right Texas, does it have any zoning laws? Cause and somehow they've managed to survive this long and be just fine.

49:21 Natural law will take effect, right? So, no way I'm advocating zoning, but I'm just saying Well, do you know, Joseph Smith was all about no licensing, right? And, and I'd be all for no zoning. I know the city of Duchesne, we had defending Utah members on their city council that, you know, they, they made steps in that direction to just leave people alone, you know, and no regulations. And they had, they only had to deal with State rules that came down or something along those lines. So, but my point is, this is what the cities are doing, is illegal. And if you don't know why what they're doing is illegal, then you don't know what to say to the code enforcement guy that comes by and gives you some random rule that totally violates your property rights.

50:13 You have to understand, there's a constitutional limitation given to the government of Utah by the Constitution that extends to the cities. Right. No, I'm makes that So let's talk about that, right? Because I think education has to be a central point in finding our way out of this. Right? If you some of the saddest stuff I see is when, you know, you remember when Jay Leno was hosting the Tonight Show need go jaywalking so to speak, where he would just talk to people asking questions about either history or what's going on in modern-day life and they were just clueless.

50:57 How can we educate more people, effectively? Concerning Liberty, right? Because I think one of the things that we've done as a society and we did it out of reverence for a while, we turn to the founders into marble statues, right. And we've taught history in such a way that it's either boring or incorrect or most likely both. So how do we Get how do, how can we reach people and educate them in a way? That's easy to digest because that's often the problem, right? I remember with my kids, I would explain to them the Constitution and the Bill of Rights and the Declaration look at all this and they'd be like, here we go again, Dad's going at it. But when I put the founders back in place where they were like Rebels, they were They worry, I remember I told my whole send you don't like it when I tell you what to do, right? No well neither did they when the king tried to do it, how do we educate these people?

52:06 How do we get shouldn't say these people, all people, how do we get these principles into their hands and into their heads where they know it? Well certainly you're right about history being made boring on purpose in schools and Public Schools kill a love for learning. Yes home. Anyways, right? I think there's something to be said about history can be made alive with the right details and with the right stories and relating them. Certainly realizing the reality. Like when people have a real situation, they can apply the storable contact. Still my gosh.

52:50 They they knew what they were talking about, they fought the Tyrant. Well, I've got this tyrant. You know, and there's a lot of people that put out different content, you know, we put a lot of content over the years, trying to solve this issue and then, as we've organized chapters over the years with defending Utah, and John Birch Society has done a lot of similar things. You know, the goal is the one of the goals of the chapters has been to help. Educate your neighbors, have Cottage meetings, invite your neighbors over. And discuss in an intimate setting you know and with with an exciting speaker or presentation, you know.

53:31 So I think having an organized effort to Agro ecology meetings in communities has always been something that I've seen effective over the years and and seeing that grow JBS was very effective doing it. And that's where we've seen some of our best successes for sure. And I think not beating around the bush. when you tell stories, you know, you know, talking about the Miracles of the founding fathers and the Miracles of this state of Utah, you know, these are things that are also being erased, mmm for sure. So, and may not be a silver bullet to that.

54:16 I think organizing effectively, you know, is I've always had the entrepreneurial mindset, you know, how we, how can we build something that can effectively serve that purpose, but the people involved and enthusiasm they have The time dedicate having good leaders, definitely puts that into Super charging them to reach people. I think you hit on something super important to and that's this idea of organizing as if you want to call us conservatives or you want to call us Libertarians or you know classical liberals however you want to put it. We seem to stink on ice when it comes to trying to be, you know, do public, you know, or organizing, right? That seems to be a tool of the left a lot. They got good at that a community organizer, and right? And they can hire people and they can hire people because there's an endless stream of money. I got all the from the likes of sorro's. I fed the Endowment for the Arts or whatever you want to say. I often look at our side and I'm like, well yeah I get why did we don't want to?

55:28 I don't want to organize guy. I understand why they don't because I don't because I work a full-time job. I got kids. I got all these things, right? And and so how how have you found it best to start organizing on the right side of the spare? That's a very good question. And, you know, Benson talked about At that and and I think a lot of his ideas came from his friendship with Robert Welch in the John Birch Society so I can I can speak to. This is one of the things they did really well which we have aimed to duplicate at defending Utah and it's, you know, we educate ourselves but we can't all dedicate Our Lives to fighting tyrants everyday or watching out, you know, but we have to have the mindset so that as we go about our regular Eyes. We know what little things we can do and it becomes a regular part of our culture, that the things that we do as part of being organized.

56:33 I know. So JBS called it defending. Freedom is a marathon not a Sprint so you just decide a little piece of you is dedicated to stand like the founders did but just a little piece of you doesn't have to be your whole life that you're giving and you dedicate just that you know, whatever organization you're a part of that monthly meeting that weekly meeting and you give a little, but you kind of commit to just is that principle lift, where you stand and give a little bit consistently. And if your heart is in it and a whole Community has that attitude, I think then you're going to find. We can all live our lives and but have this culture that has a strong has that strong cultural undertones that that Liberty matters here and and we won't tolerate nonsense here, right? As I thought about it, I've often thought there, I think we need to be better at integrating the two things when it dawned on me once when I was working on vacation of all things, I know it sounds silly, but I had to do 15 minutes of work, right? And I could do it all from my phone. And I thought this is probably how we have to do this Liberty thing, right?

57:53 We have to be able to make that just another part of our day, right? Right to where it's just second nature to what we do. So that if you're at work and you encounter someone that you got a good rapport with, you can have this conversation, right? And, and I think integration seems to be absolutely Big T anymore. I focus on and you know what? And that's part of a part of the natural law. Ow, you may have heard this term claim, use the bend, right? And so whatever we you want the reality to be tomorrow, you need to claim that reality today by declaring it. So so So, in our everyday lives, as we go to our about our business, like you said just by okay. So, some very simple examples.

58:49 You have a bumper sticker or you have a storefront in. You know, you you can put Positive messages in your storefront or whatever or you're in a business meeting, and this would be a good one, Business Leaders in the business Community, you're doing your normal networking, you're making deals, you know, with your suppliers and then someone wants to get a government grant and you just throw in there, you know? Well, I don't I think your opinion on how principle do you think that is and maybe we should find another way, it'll be better for a company because it's kind of wrong to, you know, to take government money to save her. Right. And so, so definitely integration of the principles, the principles have to be in our heads.

59:32 And then they need to come out in our day-to-day interactions but but come back that claim use defend thing it's like However, you want it to be. Let me give you an example. So, I'm a software engineer and years ago. Many years ago, I did something. I'm gonna be a little bit generic because I don't want to be specific about sure any companies. Okay. But this was a real experience. So I did something in the company that as an engineer I knew was important, nobody. So there's always this business side and Engineers you know that that deal in these on Right. So I did something.

1:00:16 I knew was important. The the business didn't fully understand what I was doing or why and didn't really care. And so, but I just did anyway and I just kind of stood on this is this is how this should be. And no one really strongly objected but just let it be well over time as this piece of engineering was react became reality. Old people go, there's turnover in the company. New people come in and now, this thing that I've established that I knew was important, the newcomers they just see it.

1:00:58 As that's how things have always been, right? Okay, right. So, in a way, I claimed, the reality of what I knew, what was right, despite even if everyone else didn't understand it and no strong objections, you know, I would have happily explained and I did, you know, Myself to anyone who cared, but no one felt that strongly so it just we've done in our communities. We can, we can claim Liberty in these ways. And again, this is a small piece of my presentation that I'm going to weave in how these natural laws can come into play as we organized in our communities. Dude, I'm sorry. I got you just doing a little bits of your presentation, okay, please, I'm worried. I'm gonna know.

1:01:38 You won't kill it because I want to I want to share it and I'll just it'll all get put together, you know? And there's no. No, there's no spoilers. Okay, right. All right, everything we're, yeah. We're these are peas, are principles their teasers. So, so the founding fathers declared a truth first, right? They said we are free to the king of England. The moment they declared. It was reality, the king of England. Didn't agree, right? But everyone that wanted that to be real agreed. And it might have been a lot of people who said, I don't know that that's such a smart idea, you know, you can kind of Imagine sure the different aspects. It gets started with a with a small group of people. That declared the reality, they declared their truth that they wanted it to be.

1:02:36 And so then from that point Mount that point forward, you know, once you declare something that's that's like the claim and claim use defend, your claiming your reality. And so there's a whole history of these various declarations. Actually that's another that's another presentation, right? There was a whole string of declarations that built up to the Declaration of Independence. Well, if the king had just said well that sucks. It would have been an over as soon as you declare your reality, then. There's a powerful influence that has over the mind and then the longer it sits there and germinates. Nobody else has to necessarily do anything specific. But if there's a core group of people, that are saying, this is how things are this. Is, this is how the Constitution Works in our community, and so forth, whatever it is over time, everyone's start seeing this is how it's always been. and so this is a natural law, you're using you, now claimed it, you're Now using that reality consistently And hopefully you never have to defend if it's done effectively.

1:03:44 Hmm. Which but but that the founders did. Right? We're at the point? Yeah, I think I think we're almost back to that one, right? I really think if we want to start. Reinvigorating. Our society with these, we have to reinvigorate our homes with it first. Absolutely. Our families are the first Committee of Safety Services. So so with using saying, you know, you declare your reality. I think that has to start at home, right? Absolutely. We have this conversation with our kids and I remember, I told you, I was like, look, we're going to be different, right? My boys hated me because like, when when their dads were like, Like when their friends is dads were out there and, you know, they were like, we're going to the whatever I'm like, we're going to sit down wherever you'd Washington's rules for gentlemanly conduct indecent Behavior. Hi, right.

1:04:45 But I look now, I remember my son when he went on his first date and he did all the things that Washington talked about standing at the table, when a woman comes to the table, right? Those sorts of things. Yeah, dates left and right. But I mean, it was, it was Those things where we're at, that had to start at home, right? And I think we're that place with these, with these, these principles of Liberty, I know, certainly because I'm a huge Washington guy out of all the founders. I find him the most remarkable, and I am the least guy like Washington, right? But I almost have a whole EnV for how he was able to conduct himself and and so I find Myself saying, where's the next Washington? And it's occurred to me, we're going to have to grow up. Yeah?

1:05:37 Right. Whereas a groan from home. First, the other thing that I've always told my kids growing up, a leader. Is the first person to do. The right thing, we all have to be. We asked all of us. Yep, absolutely. Um, do you think that as a society in general? I'm not talking about the folks that come because this is something that is frustrated me. I'm not talking about the folks that go to the meetings, right? Go to defending Utah meetings or those who are our Liberty minded. But there seems to be and I'm looking for a glimmer of hope here. There seems to be just a general sense of apathy towards this. How do we wake people up from that? So?

1:06:28 Well, I think the first thing to understand is that sense of apathy is part of the strategy of the enemy it is, yep. Right. And so, that gives you some insight into how they work is. Well, they want our lives to be as comfortable as possible, so that we maintain that acetate. So definitely it takes creating inspiration. And you know, we can all bring ideas to the table on that, right? I think people like to hear a little bit of what's wrong and then you got to give them an understanding of how we can fix this, how this works. And that's what I hope to do with with the solutions that I'm coming out with. So inspire people, you know, inspire people with successes of the past inspire people in different ways. There are many people with artistic talents in different ways that can create art, paints or videos or whatever that inspire people use your talents to create that. Kind of inspiration and then connect it to like real programs, real programs that can get things done. So, real quick before we move on to some heavy duty Solutions here in Utah today because I want to focus on the local. What do you think?

1:07:52 Is the biggest threat that we face in Utah today from the local governments? Yeah, it is our local government. Quietly implementing Agenda, 21 having built a shadow government behind our current system, the shadow government of regional entities, So this is the United Nations model on how they've done this all over the world where they create new quasi government corporations, that act like their governments. This is where I say they're using the natural law in Reverse to take away our freedoms. They've created the illusion that like the Utah League of cities and towns has a has an annual meeting.

1:08:37 They just had it here recently. And they do, they create draft legislation, so they're playing like they're the government and they're connected to the National League of cities. So there's this back-channel of regional governments and then our local government is coordinated with this effort. That then delivers everything right into our own backyards through City council's through the planning commission's through. You know, so are the local Power Players. Local conspiracy. The clubs that, you know, that we tucked that you've heard about in the past They're they're influencing that these United Nations ngos and various Regional governments can govern an organizing this way and then just everything gets rubber stamped by our city council's. How much actually do our city council's? Do and all the cities not as much as we'd want them to a lot comes from these Regional governments and that is the agenda 21 model.

1:09:42 That's you need from what you see. That's the biggest thing we're facing now. I think so. I think you know, biggest is hard to measure, you know everyone has their favorite issue, you know? And as soon as you see one person Wrong by one issue, if that feels like the biggest thing for that day, but I think overall holistically. It's the fact that we've lost our government and who we elect, they're not even really running the show. And we just don't have any influence over what's going on now with, with our local governments. So you named one organization, which was that Was a Utah League of cities and towns, okay, what's another one?

1:10:23 There's the Utah Association of counties, there's a National Association of counties. There's the Wasatch Front Regional Council. There's a there's one up north that actually they created a regional government. That spans Southern Idaho in Northern Utah, right? So with with these Regional strategies they're actually trying to erase traditional borders and create new borders and so there was a There was a western us one the can ivory and Mike Noel had a series of legislation legislative pieces over the years that built a regional government in the Western u.s.a. lands compact, they called it.

1:11:05 And they actually they were using that quasi-government, shadow government type structure, to take the unconstitutional Bureau of Land Management and legalize it under state laws under the regional compact, They created a dlm. And so it's a lot of shady things happens through these Regional back channels. That's nuts. And see I consider myself fairly well-informed, you're right, but how over half of those? I didn't even know existed to know, they were thinking know what they were doing. I think he could probably their scores of these Regional entities and Utah. Some seem very benign know, even the unified police. Is one of them, right?

1:11:50 Right. And it's the same principle removing local jurisdiction and centralizing it more and then and they're not accountable in the same way that our local governments are so it's definitely important to be aware of that. I'm going to give a plug for the red pill Expo. Is it because of what stock on this subject that I know will be there. In fact, is our latest article. I defending Utah dot-org. There's a guy giving a speech. And so, the red pill Expo is an event coming in November November 11th through 13th. Is that right, okay? 11th through 13th and it's a national tour that travels the country.

1:12:33 And so they're doing it in Salt Lake City, come November. So we're helping me a part of that we're going to we're going to affiliate in a sponsor and we're going to have our own spot there. But there's a speaker. There was a lot of great speakers. And this guy's in is Mark her. He's founded the center for self-governance and he's going to talk about Regional government. And the topic of his speeches, The Evil Genius, you've never heard of. And so I don't know the full content of his speech but it's on this subject. So Regional government and understanding how it relates to Agenda 21. This is the big unknown. We can vote to our hearts content. And do we will never solve The problems of tyranny if we don't get this cancer out from behind the scenes and make it irrelevant, and we can do it simply by shining the light on it because then you go to your city council and they're saying, we're passing this new ordinance and then you learn, this wasn't even an idea that came from your city where to come from. Well, this consultant from the league of cities and towns came in town.

1:13:38 Well, who's that guy? We didn't liked him, you know? And I think that idea can start to make it not so easy for these entities. These two just govern where they have them does defending Utah, have a list of these organizations where people can go and look and read what they're about. Yeah we have done some presentations where we've shown some big lists of them. if you just look for, There's a website. I think it's transparency. Dot Utah, dot-gov or something and they show the budgets of all the state entities.

1:14:18 I hope I got that you. Alright, something along those lines, probably Google the same thing and and they actually have a section. You can filter by Regional and they start to list a bunch of them. But I mean, just start googling some of them and then and then they'll link to the other ones. The ones I've mentioned is a great place to start, okay. I think you tell League of cities and towns. One of the biggest ones because of the way the input control they influence over the cities but that's a state level. There's like They're all over the place, right there. Might be like Three Counties and then they, they do a little thing and and it's sold to elected officials as a way to say, hey, you're just a little town over here. You don't have a voice with the state. Let's will Lobby for you.

1:15:11 So, a lot of times, they may only see it as like a lobbying organization, and they may not at first even consider this as anything, nefarious, or that is something that's incorrect or wrong about this, but But the thing is, you know, the cities have all the power to defend the right. The individual has all the power to stand for his rights. And so the City by extension can say, hey people in our town, they have their constitutional rights and we're not going to pass rules that violate their property rights and So I think it's kind of a lie to think the cities don't have power unless you join some lobbying organization. Now, nothing wrong with getting together with all the mayor's or all the, you know, city council members from other areas and comparing notes, right? Sure.

1:16:01 But that's a neutral idea. You can organize and network with people, nothing wrong with that. But it just comes down to when the agenda of the United Nations is being pushed back down. Those channels I got you. So like on those bills that will be brought up at city council or County Council or whatever. Do the or is there a place where people can read that bill first and then maybe more importantly than that? Find out who the author is, right. Yeah, it's generally you just have to dig, right? They're not going to tell you, we got this idea from the league but when they run for office, a lot of times they'll brag about being, I was on the league of cities and towns and I got this on 13 million dollar grant for our city. So a lot of money funnels through those organizations as well.

1:16:56 So, this is federal money that right and in the form of these grants and it makes it look like you're doing all this good stuff for the city, see how you brag about it. But we want to make it unpopular to brag about this thing's, right? First of all, that shouldn't be something there. They're proud of it's like take your 13 million dollar, you know, land preservation, Grant and and get it out of my city, you know, and tell me why? Tell me how, what you're going to do, too? Actually, defend the rights of the people of the city. Instead, these are the kinds of things that we should be expecting and learning how to call them out on those kinds of things. Yeah, so let me see if I can summarize this a little bit about the problem we have, and it's in Utah, but I'm guessing every other state in the country has the same sort of setup. Every country in the world, you have this problem. You have these quasi government organizations. Who is pro?

1:17:56 Who's getting funded from leftist groups? Well, this isn't so much a left right thing. No, no, this is a, this is a un boring elitist, bureaucracy thing. Okay, when I say left, I mean, anyone folks who are in favor of bigger governance, um, certainly the people who are the top, okay, these are the globalists. Okay, so, so I think this very much steps out of the left-right Paradigm, which we try to stay out of any ways to focus on principles, but you can't think of it as a. I don't don't think you can think of it that way. There are conservative representatives in there and people who might have no clue, you know, you got elected to office as a mayor. You might not even know the league of cities and towns exists.

1:18:45 Someone comes the city manager comes to you. And says, hey, here's a Video. Maybe they give you a log into a website. I don't know exactly how the details play out, but they have training videos of congratulations. You just got elected to being a mayor, let us give you some tips. And, and one of these videos actually made fun, they try to immunize you against the people in the city that are pushing back against tyranny, right? They call them cave. People citizens against virtually everything. So they're giving you a slur to make fun of concerns. Citizens right out the gate and then, you know, so I imagine many of them that they have no clue, maybe they are for limited government, they don't care, maybe they don't even know how government works. They just won the popularity contest because they're there buddy, you know, from you know, one of these Insider clubs told them, hey, you should run, you know, like I think it's a big mixture of people for sure.

1:19:39 And but definitely some of them are the firm Believers in big government. But not, I wouldn't say in the, the Democratic way of gosh, I from bottom of my heart, we need big government. I think is a lot more into either ignorance or just elitism of once you start getting into the real behind the scenes, like okay? So we got these quasi-governmental organizations that can effectively Institute policy that limits our free. Correct? Okay. Now I want to talk about Solutions. Yeah. How do we fix it? Okay, well, I think we've been bouncing in and out of that now, we have. Yeah, yes, we had educate.

1:20:25 We had how to maybe start thinking about Community organization. All right. What else is there? You know, those are the key principles. You know, we have to, we are the ones that choose if we keep our Republic, right? So, so I think all I can really do is expand on those ideas. That's great, right? Yes, we absolutely have to be willing to be organized. Evils organized. Good must be organized as well. That's one of the reasons defendant Utah exists is to help organize people. So as people come sign up for defending Utah, and come to our weekly trainings, You know we talk about these things and as an outgrowth of Defending Utah, we've created other tools to try to explore organizing and committees and that's something I'll that's in my presentation as well.

1:21:27 So it's important that we educate ourselves first. Stand in our family's first like you said and then when we're, when we are strong in our own knowledge than organized with our neighbors and and maybe that's not a linear thing. Maybe we need to organize together, even as we're learning, but there's definitely an importance of the kind of action. You take needs to be after you have the right education, right? You can't just go to a legislator. Not knowing, you know, the very basics of maybe why he's there and what your purpose is, in that meeting, right? So let's talk about the education thing again, right? Because there's a couple of, I think natural barriers that exist to that, One is guys, like yourself, are are an aberration, they're not the norm, right guys who are willing to go down that rabbit hole and really look at what's going on? How do you get someone to do that? How do you get them to care enough to want to spend the time necessary to be educated?

1:22:48 Now, I think the purpose of those who choose to lead and spend their time, Hopefully will be to help provide the organization and then those who don't have as much time or maybe you don't know where to put their time, you can L can help, you know, provide opportunities for those who are busy with their lives, right? So everyone has different talents. You're going to fill different pieces of the puzzle right eye? And I think that's okay. I just think it grows, you know, one person at a time and then let's do it intentionally. We've had a program at defending Utah for years where we, where we do it by intention where we think about, who are 10 people that That are half interested and probably I'll share some material with.

1:23:46 And so doing it by intention in an organized way. I think this key John birchers I had amazing success in their Heyday of core. I of that for sure and so I think we can replicate that for sure. And what does what does organizing look like for Liberty minded people because even In this idea of organizing, its kind of a left idea, right? I mean that because because Liberty mind you looking the founders first, how they organized, right? Well nine, the Committees of safety is a. In fact the left would have taken it from them and counterfeited it the left.

1:24:29 I really don't like the left-right terms, right? So I'm picking up on the lingo as you're saying it but the Communists communism. No, they copy. The that organizing effort. So the founders organized My presentation goes into this a lot so I'm trying to figure out how to how to touch and I feel like a lot of it is it's important to get the whole context but in in 2000 in 2020. Okay, I had as a website you can look up. Even, I don't know if you can look on the web as we begin this. Not, we took some of the patterns that we saw the founding fathers and we tried to start implementing. This idea of committees, a Committees of safety, the idea that a community Gets behind somebody talking about the flower shop and and Sandy, you know, and so we got people together and and declared this group here is the the Sandy City Committee of safety and know you. You can create some formalities so that the community takes you seriously and then This is what the founders did when they started declaring their truth of declaring. You know, the crimes of the king

1:26:00 of of publishing their own newspapers, and the founders were big on that. Just any action, they took the Committees of safety said, you know, we need to dump the tea, from the East India, Trading Company. Because because of the collusion and the the crimes and there. Including with the King and and taking away our rights. So the committee's being educated and principled, Then get behind the community. When, when there's So it's hard for me to narrow it down without getting into, trying to avoid the examples and trying to be more principled here.

1:26:41 But the They had Committees of Correspondence, they had Committees of safety, they had Committees of they had a few other different names. Okay? So so these are like functions of a fledgling. The seeds of the new government was in there. Okay? The proper role of government is to defend your rights. Yeah. Yep. Applique if the government is stealing Rights. But people are organizing. And as a community, you're now actually defending rights of the people. Okay.

1:27:22 You are now taking the role of the proper role of government, which is what the founders intended. When you assemble, that's what they did. They said the Kings not defending our rights. We're going to defend our rights and so, so it's really about this. The roles of these committees at first is remind the government of what their job is. If you remember em and Monday he went to the sheriff. In Harney County and said, hey, you're violating the rights of the ranchers and we're appealing to you as a representative to defend their rights. If you don't, I'm going to bring 100 people for if you said 1,000 people into your county and will defend them for you and not saying Has to do that.

1:28:09 But but it's, but it's There are ways there are ways to you start with informing, like, think of the traditional things we do today is just see your legislator asking them to do the right thing instead of now, you're now you're going number, 20, 20 people went to the homes of who is violating their rights, right you remember that? Yep. Okay because government was a was not responsive. So people organized together, They politely delivered and notes to what was her face? The state entity ologist.

1:28:51 Now, Angela done, went to her home. Very politely, delivered a letter saying, show us the numbers, you know, pointing out these different things and and you're the one shutting down businesses. You're hurting us, you're the one that's providing this data, that's the excuse, for shutting down businesses. And so going to their home, You saw her on TV the next day like shaking, like no one did anything to threaten her but now it's like they're, they're worried that gosh, they know where we live, you know, and I Governor Cox build a fence around his house, you know, for the same situation and then or impasse tried to pass an ordinance saying is against the law to stand on the public sidewalk and like they had this fear because it was just the people were organizing.

1:29:45 So the best way to explain this, there's an article on our website that really tells the story, probably better than I am telling now where we talk about what I call termination day and it tells the build-up of the people organizing and committees around the state. So maybe I'll leave that for the listeners. Go look up our article and it talks about there's the website I was mentioning was Utah committee that we us and it Was as a state website that talks about Committees of safety. And the article goes into how that was used during 2020. So are you looking to re-establish these committees then because you named off a bunch of them right there was the Committee of Correspondence, the committee of safety. What were some of the other ones? You can use of inspection was like another one, it's not so much that.

1:30:46 Hey, I want to establish these committees. It's the people need to understand the principle of the committee's and then everyone has to be smart enough to know how to organize them on their own. I think that that's what's most important. So, a lot of the programs we did, our just demonstrating the principle and showing the positive effects in the results, of the things that we've done. So, I'll just speak for me. The idea of going out and starting one of these committees seems a bit intimidating, right? Because there's no one to Show Me The Way Forward on that. We've got a manual. You do have a manual. That's where I was going. There is something there where someone can go and look at and and cookbook that. Yeah, it's just it's a big subject so that's why I'm trying to stay General right.

1:31:34 But but yeah, it's there. And so the presentation. You know what? I can do that more and and it's not like everybody needs to. Again, they don't, you have to dedicate your life to it. But but you as a citizen, have a right to gather with your neighbor and go tell your city council. Hey stop littering your pointless. You know, my grass is Too Tall ordinance all over our lawn and and you have a right as a whole neighborhood this you know this whole street can can gather Either you have the right to it to peaceably assemble, and petition. For redress of grievances, you don't have to go to everybody's home, you know.

1:32:18 But but in 2020 people did because people's businesses are getting shut down and offices are closed. And how do you get redress right? It's it was a it was a natural. I am and Bundy went to the home of the police officer that arrested that lady in the park. To Sarah, Brady. Yeah, to Simply deliver you have a right to face cam. This is a constitutional right to petition for redress who's the person that's causing your grievance. You're allowed to communicate to them. It's such a simple concept, really. But the effectiveness of going to that person is personally responsible. Even when you're just being polite, you're not, you don't have to yell at them, you just deliver them a notice and you say, oh, now they look you in the eye now they you know, the and they can see you and they know your real person in a very different way. There's a human connection, they're not just hiding behind a desk and or hiding behind five layers of bureaucracy. you know, something changes its that's why the founders talked about when government fears the people Right. So so yeah I believe the solutions are in the principle of the committee's.

1:33:33 The founders showed us the way and this is a new deep dive for a lot of people and we have a lot of information on this to to explain this and to teach this. And and it's but it's comes after a responsible merging of being educated So that's kind of the bottom line when I guess. Let me ask you this. Can you can you successfully do these things without being on God's side first? so, My first thought is if you're standing for Liberty, you are on God's side.

1:34:21 If you're sacrificing your time, even if a preacher is never preached to you, but you and intuitively acknowledge, people have the right, you know, to not live under tyranny and you're willing to sacrifice your time or safety for someone else. If you are on God's side, Liberty is the spirit of the spirit of Liberty is the spirit of Christ. So I would say that first but so then depends on where you want to go from there. So what I'm thinking is in and look, your way more educated on this stuff than I am, but I'm thinking of George Whitefield and it's something I thought about a lot. You know, who he is, right? Remind me. He's talking about.

1:35:02 So with the old was a preacher from the church of England, okay? And this is before the Revolution, this is about 25 years or so. Before the Revolution, I may have the timing wrong. I know he was around when the founders were young. Whitfield goes and he comes up with this crazy idea that you don't need a priest. To have to go through to have access to God. You follow that out to its logical conclusion. It gets rid of the divine right of kings, right? If you follow it out to its logical conclusion, the Church of England recognize this.

1:35:44 Well, rather than throw them in jail or anything like that, they're like shit them to the new world. You can't do any damage over there so they ship them to the new world and Franklin talks about seen and Franklin, you know, he has almost this Rockstar Persona that he's developed in the New World. And Franklin talks about. He's gonna go see Whitefield preach, but he's determined. He is not getting any money out of Franklin. Franklin said, I went and heard him preach. And by the first hour I give him all my copper by the second tower. I given him all my silver and by the end of the third hour, I give him almost all my goal.

1:36:28 Because he's talking about this idea that you don't need a priest above you to access got, you can go right to God yourself. You have that, right? And it's out of that that he begins to really lay the foundations of the Revolution so you can't really have Washington unless you get Whitfield first. My question is, is it still the same today? Do we have to recognize that our rights first come from God or Nature's God before we can really set out to do? What it is? We need, that's definitely a part of the education, you know, right? If Government Can Grant your rights, they can take it away. If God grants your rights government, can't take away a contract.

1:37:21 You have with God, right? That heat. Is part of your right as a natural person. Not so but what came to my mind is you said that I did a presentation on the black robe regiment the time, don't they are ya talked about the churches and how they led the way. And there was no, There would have been no Revolution. And by that, I mean the revolution in everyone's hearts and Minds without the preachers of that day and so definitely these ideas come from God. They come from, as I said, the spirit of Liberty is the spirit of Christ.

1:38:01 If you acknowledge that outwardly, then you have a lot more. It's a lot more powerful position to stand on and too. Confident in. I welcome anybody, though. Stands for Liberty who probably feels the promptings of that Spirit even if they haven't had it, spelled out to them. Sure. What it is that they're feeling sure, right? But it, but the church is ought to be leading the way. Absolutely. And so, I do highly recommend, I gave a 3 hour presentation on the history of the churches and the kind of churches today and how the global conspiracy Got a head of trying to neutralize the churches before all this stuff happened. And so the lead role they could play would have such an impact. If they were all standing the way they did, in the founding of our country, they were doing that today. If all the pulpits in Utah, were speaking the same scriptures that they were speaking back, then, there would have been no, nothing would have happened in 2020, it was Game over. Yeah, there would have been nothing. It would have been like, oh yeah, the pain demek never came here.

1:39:20 Like all the fake pandemic never came to Utah, why were people didn't believe in it. People said it, government didn't have a right to do that here, right? Yeah, excuse me. Part of the other reason I asked that. is I feel like, If we go, if we go down this road we're not anchored the truth real nasty things can happen and history. Bears that out right. Let's look at the American Revolution versus the French Revolution. The American Revolution, they get rid of the king. They end up going to.

1:40:01 In the 1791, they have a constitutional convention. It's, I should say, 1791, that's when it was all ratified, but the Constitutional Convention and it gets, we're done. We're done now, if you look at the French Revolution and and Thomas Paine fell hard for this despite Washington warning him. Because he said this isn't the same thing. But you go to that Revolution and they the Crowds Are are desecrating, holy places, holy sites, and it ends with Napoleon. My fear is it was an aluminous Revolution, right? But the masses as they always are in that thing are the useful idiots, right?

1:40:53 Correct. And so I worry now that we have a nation whose not or Nation even with in Utah. Now who's not grounded enough in those sacred principles, right? Godly principles that we could have a successful outcome and that's why I think the god aspect of this is so important to me because without it, I feel like it's a horror show waiting to happen. Does that make sense? Just don't think so big. Alright, if you any any Man can lead his family, right? Most maybe those exceptions but generally, right, you're right, Sammy start in your family and you think small, you can have a successful revolution of the Mind, revolution of your culture in a very small area.

1:41:46 It starts small, your group of friends, your, you know, your circle of influence, and you have succeeded, if you succeeded just speaking. To those around you, you have a small group, maybe just five people in your neighborhood. Maybe, you know, maybe a community of 20 families, that's us. That's success. And then you keep that going and you perpetuate that culture. It's okay if it's small but then that's how it grows butt butt lift where you stand and build something solid Right? Where You Are. And the big problem, you know, that gets solved as you have many, small groups, creating a solid foundation, and then those grow over time, I think it becomes natural over time after that.

1:42:41 And then sure it when people, if you've got a totally forced Revolution, like all the black lives matter riots in 2020. Totally, you know, top down, you know, right, fund it, you know, none of those kids are going to walk away from those riots and start saying, here's how we govern our community and protects everyone from You know, right whatever, right? It's totally artificial. And, and who's in charge, is already been planned. So, but but, you know, in the same breath, I think it's largely to blame on the Communist leaders in those movements.

1:43:23 Whereas, like you said, they're mostly useful idiots that point. So we can be the salt of the earth by creating these small groups. It's the spirit of Christ, the spirit of Liberty, we are the salt of the earth. We create these small patches of Truth and understanding and it just grows naturally when it's when it's real and it's intentional. Okay, that's good. What gives you hope because you see a lot of the dark stuff that is being perpetrated. Would give you hope at night. Yeah, sometimes it's hard to feel it and She gives me hope.

1:44:12 Okay, that, you know, like I believe in the goodness of people, you know, you can look and say the world is full of for those. On the podcast, I pointed at my wife, I said, she gives me hope. Right, but, but like, I see goodness in my wife, I see goodness in People still write when, when you look at the world through the lens of social media and TV and the News, you think you can very easily fall to look how dumb everybody is. Nobody gets it. Everybody's you know, lost and what when you still look someone in the eye one-on-one and you talk with people and you hear that their life story and even if they're just totally different from you, And you see goodness in people, I think most people are capable of Liberty, and they just need to hear it in there. They need to hear it in the way that makes sense to them from the background.

1:45:15 They come from right? And so I do boy when I'm just disappointed with people as a whole I just have to, you know, I haven't an interaction with good friend again or, you know, a new stranger. It renews hope this the spirit of Christ is The Light of Christ, right is within us all still. I believe it's still there. And I think we just have to inspire people in this world and have to get better at that. We have to stop relying on other people. We have to be willing to live free and nullify and our personal lives.

1:45:57 We have to learn how to nullify as a community, and create that inspiration for others. And it just takes time, it takes time and persistence and You know we fall we pick ourselves up again and attitude. Yeah, so And I guess that's what I have to say. You know, there's two things that gives me hope that we're going to find our way out of this one is The story of Washington right before they're about to sign the Declaration and have been divorced, rephrase that right before they're about to vote on the new Constitution.

1:46:39 And he said, gentlemen, we've done the best we can essentially it's now in God's hands. Yeah. And let us raise a standard to which the wise and Noble can repair and they go forward. The other one is a it's between Jefferson and Adams and Adams laments to Jefferson the letter and says we messed up, we messed up. We should put more Deuteronomy into the constitution in Jefferson writes back and says it's okay. They'll be another generation somewhere. That'll see what we were trying to do, and they'll get it, right? And and so that's what gives me.

1:47:24 Hope that Liberty won't be lost, right? Is that somehow those men Who were? Absolute Towers. Of men, right? Had enough faith in the succeeding Generations, that it will get sorted, you'll get fixed. yeah, I believe that, I believe I believe the spirit of Liberty is within The people of the world as a whole and need to be leaders and we just need to inspire it out of people. Fantastic.

1:48:11 Well we've been going here almost an hour 45 what you want to say in conclusion? Well well first off is there anything that you want to touch on? We didn't touch on. Nothing. Comes to my mind at this point so I can just, you know, just generally conclude I hope people will check out the website, defending Utah, dot-org. Now, we've been working hard, all year on various programs. We'd love to have more people with passion and heart and get involved. And there's a lot of opportunity and And I would just like to invite anybody to check out our website and join up.

1:48:58 Perfect, and when's your presentation. So, the presentation I told you I'm speaking at the Firm Foundation Expo. That's not necessarily my full one that I'm talking about okay unless I just really get lots of free time and finish it up, not my goal is having that I may announce it and do it myself this year. May not be any specific place, but I'm speaking at the Firm Foundation Expo and also some of our other members are speaking there as well. I'll be speaking up, northern Utah. The city of Of Millville. And then red pill Expo will be there.

1:49:41 So I think we have a variety of events coming up but look forward to this solutions that I'm talking about that will be this year and get on our mailing list. And you'll be invited. You can be invited to come. Listen, send me an email info at defending Utah dot-org. If you have questions, one talked about it now in advance if you're intrigued, and That's it. Awesome. Look. If you're listening to this, it's for a reason.

1:50:22 I don't know what that reason is but you were born in this time for a reason and I think we all have a part to play. I'll never pretend to know the mind and will of God perfectly. The one thing that scripture does teach me though, is that God loves a dramatic ending. And I think that Things are going to get a little dicey before they get better here, but when they get better it'll be a grand time. So and I think we all have a part to play in that year, I think, I think all of our job is to figure out what that is and then go forward with it. You know, talking about what gives me, hope did make me, think of them are things, The more I've studied communism and the conspiracy in their tactics, the more I see that the things that take away, hope are an illusion Well, a lot more than we realize and so I can see how much power we really have. If we start to Not play into those Illusions and just claim use defend a little bit in our lives. You know, we would see a lot more success. So I feel like nature and God being one of the same is on our side, he put the laws into place or you know, he governs by those laws and we can leverage those and we can come out. Trumpeting then awesome.

1:51:52 All right. Right defending Utah, everyone go check that out. Hey, when you come out with that full list Solutions after that presentation, would you mind coming back on? Sir? Let's dive into a deep. Okay, awesome. Alright, bye everybody.