Episode #23 Not Hiding Our Light Under a Bushel W/David Patten: A Mormon Fundamentalist Film Maker

0:04 Okay, I'm not breaking news here. We all see that the world around us is getting darker, right? I mean, it's plainly evident that the love of man is waxing cold. We see violence corruption War hunger, poverty, sexual immorality, all around us, and it only continues to intensify in a world that seems to have lost its moral compass. What are we as followers of Christ supposed to do the answer to that question? Is that we must stop looking for others? Change. We have to become the change that we seek today. On the podcast, I have on David Pat now. David is a man who has worked in Hollywood in the film industry and seeing the inner workings of it. He has since left Hollywood and started a film company of his own that seeks to make films.

0:47 That tell accurate, Mormon, history and films that uplift and help people become pure in heart. We talked a little bit about the Genesis of this project. Some of his challenges is the Mormon fundamentalist, independent filmmaker and what His vision is for the future of his Venture along the way, we talk a lot about gospel, principles and teachings. And that's all next on this edition of the Mormon Renegade podcast, So, I just want to take a moment to thank you. The Listener, when I started this podcast I wasn't sure if anyone would really listen. Now to my surprise, this thing has taken on a life of its own and that's all due to you the listener, spending your time here with me, and it means a great deal to me now, as a husband and father, I'm keenly aware of how important time is.

1:32 It feels like there's just never enough of it. So when you are spending your time here, listening to this podcast, I feel a responsibility to never waste your time in that Spirit as this podcast has grown. I feel like I need to do you the listener. Justice, I want to continue to produce good content and upgrade the audio quality that takes better equipment and better software and that all takes money. Now, I've tried to advertise, but you'd be surprised. There's not a lot of people want to advertise on a Mormon fundamentalist podcast. I know surprising right now if you want to help support the podcast, you can do that. One of two ways. The first is go over to Mormon Renegade.com and hit the Donate tab there. You can make a one-time donation or you can go ahead.

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3:20 Your listing to the Mormon Renegade podcast. Welcome back to the Mormon Renegade podcast as always you can get ahold of me either by email at Mormon Renegade at gmail.com. You can also get a hold of me on Instagram and Twitter and getter under the handle. Mormon Renegade. Also we have a website up and that's Mormon Renegade.com, so go check that out. So today on the podcast I have David Patten on and David. Is embarking on a Endeavor that I find super important and that is he he striving him and him his partner in this Venture are striving to make films. That have a gospel-centered theme. Did I cover that about right?

4:24 David. Yes. David thank you for the great name. By the way. Yes, thank you very, very much for the introduction and that is indeed what we are endeavoring. So real quick, if you don't mind, we're are you a Mormon fundamentalist? Is that correct? That's correct. And were you always a fundamentalist or were you kind of Born Into the LDS church or what I would? Conferring yeah I was born fundamentalist and I've been around. Fantastic. Fantastic and and you know I know you have some issues. Sure that with privacy and that sort of thing. But if you can and if you can't, I completely understand where you kind of like raised in.

5:09 You talk to tell me about what your upbringing was like. Yeah, yeah. Raised in Utah and the upbringing was I wouldn't say it was your common fundamentalist experience that the childhood was really, really good. And as you as I grew up, then I started noticing things in my community that the Book of Mormon. Borman, pointed out, is priestcraft and long story short. This became an investigator myself of various different fundamentals, break offs and have had quite a few conversations with leaderships in these different communities and different people.

5:49 And if hopefully learned a lot, But in short, I would say that in all of the things I've seen, I've never felt to Veer away from the Mormon fundamentalist belief system, even though that there are certain parts of it that I find distasteful, at times in the Book of Mormon speaks against it as a whole, has been a great blessing and I can see the value in it. You know, that's it's always so fasting. And this is one of my favorite parts of doing the podcast is listening to, everybody's kind of Faith expression, right?

6:31 And I've had, I've had mainstream LDS, folks on, and will continue to do. So I've had on Mormon fundamentalist, who belong to groups. I've had independent, Mormon fundamentalists. And the thing I find fascinating is that we all tend to have a testimony. Those Bedrock things, right? And I find it to be so fascinating that that is a thread throughout everyone. I talk to Yeah, I would agree with that. It's nice to have that Foundation to fall back on. It seems to me that so many people want to focus on the differences, but I find there's so much more similarities than there are differences and it is really nice with to have that Foundation.

7:21 I couldn't agree with you more David because In in next week, I'm going to be releasing a episode where we're going to really kind of talked about this a little more in length with a with another guest, I'm going to have on but the thing that that I find interesting right now is I see the world coming for us, all right? The adversary coming for us all and if we don't stand together, Either on the things that we can agree with they'll pick our kids apart and pick us off, individually one by one and so I find it really essential that that we maybe try to reach out some of our LDS brothers and sisters Independence to folks in groups vice versa, all the way around because I feel like we're in a moment where it's all hands on deck, you know what I mean? I do David and honestly, I think you touched on it so perfectly there.

8:23 I think that I think Satan's effort is to get us divide more and more and to focus on the differences to the point where we won't work together and we won't have each other's back. And I think that's a very strategic thing that the the adversary has going on. And I agree with you, we should be reaching out and trying to encourage. I like the quote from Joseph Smith where he says, have the Baptist's, any truth, have the Presbyterians, have the methodists, they all have truth and we don't ask anyone to give up what they have. We just invite them to come. Get more. Or and if I cannot convince them that my way is better than I will. Uphold and sustain them in their own way to. He was very, very good at encouraging them on the level that they were willing to accept at the time.

9:08 But he wouldn't hesitate to teach them something more that if, if that would be something that they would want to listen to absolutely. And, and if it's done correctly and it's done out of a sense of love, there's few people that get offended when you share Something that you believe with somebody else. Yeah, because they can feel that love. It's coming from a place of authenticity. It's, it's perfect just as an example. Right. After I started this podcast, I had somebody reach out to me, who was a calvinist of all things, and we've gotten to be pretty good friends and we rib each other quite a bit, right? Like we're talking about him coming on the podcast off and on here and he's like, I think Can predestined to come on.

9:55 And I was like, no, I think you're just choosing the right to come on to the podcast. And so there's, there's little, but it's all in good fun, right? It's, it's just, it's just in good fun. And I think if we can, I think it takes two things. One is is just reaching out in love to those around us. And then to, let's not take ourselves too, seriously? Right. I think, if we can do those two things, I think we can reach out to a ton of people. I agree. Thanks for mentioning that. Absolutely, I agree. So real quick. Let's get this out of the way as I said before. There's there's some need for anonymity on your part here, right? Yeah. So David Patten isn't your real name? And I'm you're not going to disclose your real name here but you said you wanted to touch on that a little bit. Why don't we do that right now?

10:45 Yeah, absolutely I think it's very very important that I let you and your listeners know that David Patten is a fictitious name. The specific reason for this is that anonymity. It actually can Aid a message, especially in the film industry. And I've been in the film industry, long enough to find out that most filmmakers, the number one priority for them is build their name. Build their name, build their name, exalt their name and so they want credit. They want to make sure that people recognize them for their talents and and to build their name up so they can have better future jobs or whatever. It is that they're trying to accomplish and I'm not interested in that what I'm interested in is the message and so I don't want to be credited for it.

11:36 I would prefer to remain anonymous for that reason and for the reason that It can be a distraction who made it sometimes becomes more important than what was made and this has been one of the things that I've learned throughout. I will say my fundamentalist upbringing and in the many different groups that I've talked to is, there's been a lot made about who has the priest stood, who has the fullness of the priesthood, who's the president of the priesthood. There's been so much focus on that that we've Justified neglecting the principles. The gospel and the principles that Christ taught in. The Joseph Smith, Todd in the name of, well, who had this guy has the priesthood and that guy who doesn't. So I'm justified in treating that guy, or that group. Ill and a couple things I'd like to point out. We some of us will wear the title and the label of Mormon fundamentalist which would imply that we keep and believe in fundamental form and principles.

12:42 I want to quote two things that Joseph Smith said one is he said, friendship is a fundamental principle of Mormonism. It's designed to unite the world together. And yet, if you look at the Mormon fundamentalist communities, most of us have a tendency to not be friends and choose not to be friends because we don't agree with a certain tenets of that particular group. Another quote Joseph says, it is a fundamental notice the word fundamental fundamental principle of Mormonism to accept truth. Let it come from whence it may And we have a tendency to say oh well I'll give you a few examples. If Alex Joseph said that, then he had an ulterior motive before and Jeff said, such and such he had him ulterior motive or if rolling all bad man.

13:39 He was an aspiring, man. So we can't really take what he said is truth and you find that there's a lot of that talk, and I don't mean that as an accusation, it's just something that I've noticed is experience. But if Joseph Smith, the founder of our religion said that, Those were fundamental principles of Mormonism, would it not follow? That Mormon fundamentalist would try to implement them in their daily life. Absolutely. And so it is for that reason that that I prefer to remain anonymous to focus on the message. Obviously there will be actors that you know people will recognize and it's okay.

14:20 You know, there's probably going to be some people that come on your show and say, hey I recognize that nice, that voice that David Patten guy, I know who that is, and that's okay. I'm not trying to hide from anybody. I'm just trying to deliver the message that let's focus on the principal. Let's focus on the message. Don't get caught up with who's saying it. No, I think that makes perfect sense David. I think that I think you're right on so many points there that you just said one is that the the last thing you I've always said, I like my politicians to be really dry and maybe a little hard to relate to you because because the last thing you want is a cult of personality, right?

15:11 And so I totally get what you're saying there. That that If people focus on who you are rather than what the message is, it then becomes a cult of personality and most times not always, but most times the that Cult of Personality tends to ebb and flow in terms of being successful, with the person who's put on the pedestal. Yes, absolutely. And I agree. Thank you for understanding that. So, yeah, I totally get that. That the other thing I would say is, I agree wholeheartedly with you on this idea that we've, we've kind of cannibalized, each other, for lack of a better term, right? And as we do, we're not making, we think by tearing somebody else down from in Mormonism is, you know, a way to strengthen our own position.

16:09 Whatever that may be, in all actuality is we talked about just a few minutes before. It actually weakens us because if we're set on beating our brother, well then the enemy of the entire family is at the door and we don't see them coming. Agreed. Absolutely agreed at house divided against itself cannot stand, right. And I think we're in one of those moments and, and this is why I really wanted to have you on the podcast. David is because I feel like perhaps more so than any other time I can remember in my time is being a Mormon, and I wasn't a Mormon by birth, I joined the LDS church and then I eventually became a Fundamentalist Thing that, that that I recognize now that happened. Just right.

17:02 After I started the podcast was that we're kind of coming into a fundamentalist moment. We might be right in the middle of it, right? With shows like under the banner of heaven, we have things like the the Netflix special about Warren Jeffs. We have you know it wasn't too long ago that you know they decriminalized. Why's polygamy with in Utah. Didn't Legalize It But decriminalized it and so I feel like we're in this this more this fundamentalist Mormon moment, right? And and and When I see somebody, who's a fundamentalist who's like, you know, starting a movie studio seems to be kind of the thing to do right now. It really, it really made me curious. Tell me about that process.

17:58 David, where were you? When you have this idea or the spirit moved you to do this cake? Can you kind of took get fill me in on the background? There of how you got to this point? Sure. Absolutely. I'll give you a just cut. A quick rundown. I was I was a really close to all but signing a contract with Paramount in Hollywood California on a Trilogy of films that I felt indifferent about they, they had Mormon characters. Interestingly, interestingly enough but the the spirit of it just didn't feel right, but at the time I wanted to build my name as a filmmaker.

18:45 I wanted to exalt my own name rather than gods and we ran into a situation where I made a mistake reaching out to high-profile actors. And when I thought that that was okay and found out that it wasn't yet because Paramount hadn't confirmed that they were really doing it. And so when I reached out to these high-profile actors and they started asking, you know, who's behind the film, and I would say Paramount then Paramount got upset with our company and they needed a scapegoat so. So that's essentially what it became. It was very hard at the time but it turned out to be one of the greatest blessings of my life. Because in my humility, I turned to the Lord and told him, I was sorry if I was doing something wrong and immediately he put into my mind, an idea the feature film. That I have since produced and it has gotten global distribution.

19:43 It's a, it's a Christian film and delivers a very hopefully a very impactful message of love. But after that was done, then I remember pondering. What do I do next? And I focused on my family for a while. And several different times, I felt just a gentle nudge to Take it up a notch. Don't be afraid to defend the principles that you believe in and don't be afraid to share them. Because if Joseph Smith John Taylor, Brigham Young. These guys that wrote periodicals and newspapers in their day, we're going to use the best available press of their day to spread the gospel.

20:29 Why shouldn't we? Use the best available press and I realized in that moment that God had given me the ability to make films, you know, decent quality films. But but packed him a punch as far as the message is concerned and I was told to things in the spirit to not hide my talent under a bushel. and, To always look unto God for direction as to how to go about it. So, with that, that the other one, the other thing that got me pushing was you've probably heard the term historical revisionism.

21:11 Yeah. It's a pretty Active thing right now. There's a lot of historical revisionists that throw the other presidents and profits under the bus and it's slowly leaking into well, but maybe Joseph Smith wasn't such a good guy, but let's try to throw a couple of his things. And you know, let's bring some things in the Limelight of heat the way he did wrong. So eventually they'll let go of him and I've noticed in talking with quite a bit of different people, especially in terms of Brigham Young that a lot of people become familiar with one or two sentences that bring them said that we're pretty harsh or harsh sounding but then when you go back and you read the entire context of the sermon you find out that wasn't harsh and then what happens is when they think that he's harsh then they'll try to dig up dirt on the guy And sometimes it's anti-mormon material, or sometimes it's a rumor that passed on for 150 years and you know, gets twisted with each telling.

22:26 So, one of the things that came to me was These people don't really know who Joseph in Brigham and John Taylor were they see the sermons or portions of the sermons? But they don't see the acts that they had in their everyday lives. So I pulled out a book by hiring Andres it's called they knew the prophet, there's another one by Mark, McConkey called remembering Joseph. And both books are actual eyewitness accounts of personal experiences that people had with Joseph Smith. And those experiences reveal who he was. And the idea hit me with all the historical revisionism that's going on. We need to combat this idea of people saying, this is who this guy was our, this is who that guy was. He was a crook.

23:16 He was evil and and I'll go back to bring them young for just a moment because There are a couple things that people will take from Brigham Young that's very, very harsh but then you'll go and read in the Journal of discourses. For when somebody else is talking about Brigham Young and saying why why is bring him so happy Why do why do people love being around brother Brigham? Because he still kind and thoughtful. And because he reaches out to those that are in need there, there's people that actually Bear testimony to how Brigham lived his life. And then, I picked up a book written by Brigham Young's daughter where she talked about their everyday living. And he was an incredible human being.

23:57 You find out how he will was in his daily life and you find out. It's so much different than misinterpreted, or out of context quotes that people get a little disgruntled about, So with that said, I'll just finish by saying the idea that came to me is not only do fundamentalist need to go back and find out who Joseph Smith was. But there's a great many people who are leery about Joseph Smith, that never would enter the rent, restoration gospel without knowing who he is. And these films are designed first, the first series to point out who he was. And already, I've cast a couple people that are Christian, they have never even, Thought of even looking into Mormonism and I gave him the heads-up that hey, this the story that we're going to film, it's about Joseph Smith leader of the Mormons and it makes him look good.

24:50 So if you don't want to be part of it, there's your warning and they looked at the script and they're like, wow, this is really awesome. I want to be part of it and hopefully it opens a spark, some interest That, that is really cool and you hit on so many things in there that that I want to touch on one is the revisionist history. The next podcast, guess it'll be released next week. They they're coming on, it's the name everyone recognizes and I never say it until recording is done, because I never want to jinx anything. But but that personal Beyond talk about, just, the thing you talked about which was revisionist history, because I think what's Happening Now is so is something that's very similar that we saw happen within the United States in the last 100 years, which is If you can discredit the messenger then it's really easy to discredit the message 100%. And and I think I think they did it first with in the United States with a lot of Education right under the guise of education and now they're coming after Mormonism, right? Discredit the messenger Joseph Smith, Brigham Young John Taylor and then You can discredit the message or maybe even reshaped the message into something that

26:22 they want to see. And and the work of teaching true history. In an engaging way, has never been more important than it is right now. Oh absolutely. You hit on a lot of very, very important points. And Brigham Young seems to be an easy target. Because Brigham did say, some controversial things, I would preface that by saying that that Brigham Young wasn't that controversial for his time, they're controversial to us today and, and and, you know, they're Troublesome to us today, but we have to understand that he was still a man called by God a prophet with a prophetic manner. But that doesn't mean he was perfect either. And it sure it's totally within the gospel to say, you know what, maybe brother Brigham did have some flaws, but Brigham brother.

27:18 Brigham was also a prophet of the Lord and when people focus solely upon I guess the Sterner parts of who Brigham was they don't take into account how tender he was and there are plenty of accounts where he was very tender, right? I mean, yeah, look, this is a guy in the middle of conference stands up and says We gotta go get those folks stuck out there on the plains. We're not leaving anybody out there likewise, there are stories of him where, you know, you mentioned his daughter. I remember I'm a red one account where one of his daughters was sick and it talked about just how gently was as he tended to his own family.

28:01 The other thing Brigham gets cast in a bad light Force. They said, well, he bought Native Americans. Well, you have to look at the whole story, right? One, Native American. And group band of of or tribe I should say, had brought in children from another tribe and threatened to kill him unless somebody paid for him and Brigham said I'll pay but they don't tell the whole story. They just tell one little section, David Wright. And and you don't get an accurate picture of who Brigham is until you look at the breadth of it, and we do this to all people in history and I can't figure out why but But rather than focus on the whole, we tend to focus on one or two little things he said or she said and then we cancel everybody because of that. Yeah, absolutely absolutely.

28:56 Thank you for mentioning that because I do want to point out just a couple things to on Brigham especially so this daughter of his that wrote this book, she tells a story about going up to her mother and as you probably know Brigham had 56 children in 19 wives, at one point, and he goes up to her, she goes up to her mother and says You seem sorrowful today. Mother, Is it hard for you? Is it really hard for you to be married to the same man, that all these women are married to And she says it is at times, but if, if your father wasn't the most wonderful man in the world, I don't think I could do it and, and nobody would know Brigham better than a wife.

29:44 Right, and yet? And yet her testimony is, he's a good man. He's the most wonderful man in the world. That was her testimony. So which is very, very interesting you want to if you, if you look at the people that were close to Brigham and see what they said about him, you get a completely different picture than just a couple sentences that seemed rough. Yeah, and not to mention, it's really hard to It's really hard to know when what Brigham is or how Brigham is speaking, right? Because if you go to the Journal of discourses and you go to all those other sources, you're like, is this, the prophetic hat? Is this the territorial Governor hat is this, the colonizer Hat? What, you know, what's he talking in full context? You're about and so that becomes vitally important because I would argue that with the exceptions of Joseph Smith and maybe the founding fathers Brigham Young did a tremendous work, wearing a lot of different hats to carve out not just an existence but a society out of the Great Basin Yeah. And really who else could have done that, right? Right.

30:59 And don't get me wrong, I understand Brigham could be firm but he kind of had to be, right? I mean, we're gonna get these wagons and we're going to go over these planes and over those mountains. And then we're going to settle by a really salty lake right where there's no civilization, right? Right. And we're going to carve out an existence out of that. You have to be a little firm, right? I mean, you can't be a total softy in that environment. Oh yeah. Absolutely. He will be needed to be. He was, he absolutely was. So as your begin, let's talk about the film's a little bit here. Now, is this going to be a series of films? Or is this going to be just one film or on Joseph Smith? Or what are you looking at?

31:53 David. Yeah, absolutely. The idea is to take a series of stories of his life and we'd probably find the same actor who played Joseph Smith, and every one of them we'd probably like I've already got two that have no K Whitney. And so, they'd be connected, they'd be connected series of films. That illustrate a message very easily. But it's not just Joseph Smith. This like I want to do maybe a season so to speak of Joseph Smith, there's a story I found on Charles Penrose the illustrates a principle of the Gospel. So well that I would like to film that Joseph's not even in that, it was Charles Penrose but it is the origin of the street. The song in the hymn book called School, die feelings and why Charles Penrose wrote that and it was a very trying circumstances.

32:51 Stands for him but it was just an absolute beautiful story. So yes right now, I'm actually casting and preparing for three specific stories about Joseph Smith to help. Give a clearer idea of who he was and I hope to continue to find some more stories about him to where I would. I don't know how many episodes I'll just call them episodes. I don't know how many there will actually be still work. Going on that particular thing, but I even intend to do one on John Taylor called the kingdom of God, or nothing that has stuff on the 1886 events told in a narrative form.

33:40 So there's a lot of different things that that I'm looking at doing, but I think I'm going to start with Joseph Smith and try to give an idea of who he was through these short films. So are these scripts that you yourself have wrote? No they actually come directly from these accounts, they are scripts that I wrote just to put them in a script form so all my cast and crew understands how we're shooting it. However the stories come from accounts themselves now I will say this There are some stories where the person writing the story about what happened with Joseph Smith, doesn't say verbatim What Joseph said or what they said.

34:24 They'll say something like Joseph. Let us know that we were doing a good job but how do you actually script that? How do you how do you script that without actually putting words into Joseph's mouth? We want the audience to know that Joseph told them that they're doing a good job. But they didn't write in their journal, in quotation marks, you guys are doing a really great job. So there's some people that may take issue with oh you're putting words in Joseph's mouth that he never said. And one thing I've found to is that there will be an account on a certain situation that happened where one person tells it this way and said to Joseph said such and such and another account of the exact same situation where they says that Joseph said, such and such and they differ And so it becomes a little bit of a challenge to say, okay, what actually happened, I like to use the law of witnesses that mouth of two or three Witnesses, all truth shall be established. And if I can find that, then I can basically say, okay, this is verbatim this has to stay true to the source material and I try to do that.

35:36 Anyway, it's just there are moments where you have to convey to the audience, what the person in the journal was saying where they didn't actually give quotes because Makes sense. Absolutely, it does. And one thing I wanted to say is that too often, we feel like well, these events should should be. So important that the account from one person to another should be identical. And that's not the way humans work, right? It, we can look at the, the gospels as just, an example. If you look at Matthew Mark, John, they all differ a little bit, right? And, and rather than say, well this doesn't agree with Matthew so we got throw it out, know we what we say is that okay, John is is seeing the same event but because he's a different person with a different background and a different point of origin. Maybe he's going to see things differently than what Matthew is going to see them and he met fixate on different. Details of that story, then Matthew does and it's that it's the same way when you start talking about car accidents or, you know, major events, right.

37:01 One of the things that that really surprised me is right after 9/11. I remember, I had some good friends out east who were at Ground Zero or close to ground zero. And there were little pieces of the story that didn't line up with each other. Sure, when I started to enjoy to look at it, like, okay, is somebody lying to me? Here I found out. No, they're not lying to me. They just put more emphasis on one part than the other and another person put more emphasis on a different part and and in some ways those different accounts that maybe don't match up quite right. I've tried to be a little more forgiving since that experience with my friends out east and saying that know, they could both be. Completely 100% correct.

37:48 They're just putting emphasis on different things. I love that and I love your you using the four gospels as an example, because what you do have is you have Matthew and John who both were eyewitnesses to the things that Jesus did yet. You'll find in Matthew, when Jesus talks about having the faith of the Mustard Seed. He says, if you have the faith of a mustard seed, you could say to that mountain be thou removed and it would remove but then you go to John and he emphasizes that story a little bit. And says, if you have the faith of a mustard seed, you could say to that mountain be thou removed and it would be removed, so, that's verbatim. But then John says that Christ continued and said, for the mustard seed is the smallest of all seeds but when it is planted, it grows into a large tree and the fowls of the air come and Lodge in the branches thereof. And you don't get that without that was what stood out to John. And so, he made sure that he wrote that. This is what Christ said about this instance. And it's beautiful too because you have Mark who he could have been an eyewitness.

38:54 There's some that say that he was probably a teenager and followed Jesus around the time. He could have been an eyewitness but then you have Luke, who wasn't who was told by Paul what happened in, Paul wasn't even an eyewitness which is very interesting. But at the same time, Luke was a very thorough historian. And he would take what mr. Horse material, he could gather and put it together in a very comprehensive way. All of that has value and all of that offers just plenty of perspective to get, and so I like to find stories I like to find stories of especially for my films that have more than one witness. Absolutely. Because really in again, we see this in the gospels is that we don't call one of the Apostles Liars because they're their story differed a little bit, right? Likewise, I think that it's the message more than than the verbiage.

39:52 You know what I mean? And the message always has a way of coming through and the gospels. I think provide a clear example of that. Where where even though Stories, differ a little bit or the verbage differs a little bit. The the message comes comes through on those. So I think taking taking some artistic license if you will and trying to put, you know, a three sentence paragraph and trying to make it a five minute clip in a movie. I don't think there's anything wrong with expounding on that a little bit. Sure, thank you, thank you for that. I'm glad to hear that. Now in doing that, it's very important to me that I don't tell anything that's not truthful. Should I don't just make something up. If there's a line of dialogue that a character says that is not verified exactly like that in the account. That line of dialogue supports the account still, it's to support the idea that whoever the author of it is was trying to convey.

41:00 Gotcha. Gotcha. No. I think I think you're right on with with how your approach in that. I mean, I'm kind of an amateur historian, especially when it comes to the founding fathers. And I've often thought, man, there just needs to be a good movie about Washington. I mean, a solid movie. Yes, the problem is that as I read, as I read other, as I read historians about Washington, they can't agree with each other and I'm like, yeah, this would end up in a fist. Wait, I get it so I can I can totally totally sympathize with what you're saying right there about trying to make sure that that that dialogue supports the message, right? Or supports the idea that's coming through. So where are you at?

41:46 In terms of filming, have you started filming yet or anything? No, still working on pre-production. I've got a lot of family stuff going on right now. That doesn't allow me to roll camera quite yet, but I'm particularly fond of the Fall colors. Okay. And, and I'm looking at some time mid-fall hopefully to do three days of shooting for, for three days or three specific shorts and if you'd like, I can go into those those shorts. Absolutely. Okay. So one of them is a story about it's told by William F Cahoon about when he was 17 years of age and This young man was a teacher in the aaronic priesthood and he was tasked to go to various homes on home, teaching assignments. And he says, that he did really really well until the bishop called him to go to Joseph Smith's house. And then he felt really, really small and wanted to shrink from his duty and and excused himself from that assignment. He said, but he realized it was his duty and he was asked to go do it.

42:56 And so, Very nervously. He goes one night and knocks on the door and Joseph opens up with a smile. Invites him in calls the family together and William proceeds to just ask some questions, simple ones. Like are you saying family prayers, as well as individual prayers, are you teaching your children, the principles of the Gospel? Are you fulfilling your duty toward God, and toward your family, just those reminder type questions and he affirms the Joseph very humbly. Would respond. Yes. I'm I'm trying to do that and then the young man would ask Emma, few questions and she'd respond. Similarly and after he was done, he just said that Joseph was so cordial and thank him so much for fulfilling his duty.

43:44 And there's two accounts of the story. By the way, one of them, what from Calhoun himself says that Joseph. Just walked him out the door and thanked him and was very nice and cordial but there's another account that says Joseph wind up, put his hand on his shoulder. He says, brother I want to tell you something. It's because of young men like you that the kingdom of God will never fail. So there's two differing accounts and I have to juggle, you know which one which one sport accurate there, but that's a beautiful story. And I think it's a great encouragement to young men who have been called to the priesthood who have all, but forgotten that there actually is a duty in the aaronic priesthood.

44:28 That's very helpful if they'll fulfill it. So that's one of them and it finishes with actual quote from Joseph Smith found in teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith where he says that Deacon can enjoy as much of the spirit of God by doing his duty as the president of the church could. So, I finish him with Joseph saying a part of the sermon on that another story. I'll be real brief with this one. No, you're good. Take your time. There's no time limit here, okay, it's told by a, it's told by a lady that when she was a little girl eight years old that, she remembers Joseph Smith riding on a horse in to Nauvoo to the home.

45:09 Of their family and they had just moved to Nabu, they had barely gotten there and Joseph came up to her father and asked for a hundred dollars to pay the lawyer to defend Porter Rockwell who had been I guess indicted for attempted assassination of Governor Boggs. And so Joseph asked to borrow a hundred dollars, which was a fairly significance in that day. And without hesitation this man Thomas, colborn gives him a hundred dollars Joseph. Thanks him and says, I'll have this back to you in three days. And he mounts his horse and rides off. Well, the sister of the man that gave the money was pretty upset about it.

45:51 And started accusing him of giving his money away to a guy who will never pay it back. Who can't take care of his own family. And that will never see a dime of it again and Thomas Cole. Born faithful man says well if he doesn't pay pay it back he's welcome to it. So this little girl watches eagerly for three days for Joseph to come back and sure enough. At on the third day it gets to be 8:00 at night. 9:00 10:00 still, no Joseph Smith and it's raining outside and and the sisters just I told you so he's not going to pay this and about 11:00 at night, there's a knock at the door, Thomas goes and opens up the door. Joseph soaking wet says, here's the money Thomas. I've been working all day long to try to get this some and they counted it out there was a hundred dollars in gold, that he paid back and he says, I had to make sure I got it to you for my reputation was at stake.

46:58 And he walks away in a left such an impression on that little girl. Wow, that that's just one of those stories that tell you a little bit about who this guy was. He was an honest person, and there are historical revisionist that will tell you he wasn't don't bring up the United firm in Kirtland and and say all kinds of things about him because people in his day said things about him. So I will just there's another one I'm working on as well called a lecture on faith. And I'm still developing that research wise. So, I won't share that right now. But it is one I intend to film you know and and it's those Or he's did, I think helped to humanize the people that we Revere in history? We have the strange As humans and I can't figure out why exactly.

47:52 But we have this strange way of people who were important in history, we tend to intellectually and emotionally turn them into statues of marble, right? Where they're almost stationary, and they almost seem to be People without parts and passions if you will right, where I'll put well where were you, don't see their humanity and it's in the accounts like the one that you just mentioned that. I think it's so important that that we see the prophets Humanity, that we see his, his his, his love, and his passion, not only for the gospel, but for the people that followed after the message, which he preached.

48:41 Yeah, agreed. And, you know, it helps us as viewers and as humans ourselves, I'm glad you mentioned that it's nice to see their Humanity because it actually helps us to say, wow. Now that I see this example before me, I know it's possible. I can do that too. Absolutely.i. One of my personal heroes from the scriptures is Peter, right? And this is where I'm going to admit. My foibles if you will, is that you got Peter, just a few hours before he denies Christ where he's like, hey, we'll go to war, we'll do whatever. We got to do to make sure you're okay and you're not going to suffer, and we're gonna go through this and he's just stalwart, he's gonna, you know, Make sure that the savior's, okay? A few hours later man.

49:32 He's like, I don't know who that guy was. I've no idea and and I can identify with Peter and some respect because there's times I come out of church or I come out of my family worship. And I'm like, this, is it? I'm I'm not going to screw up. I'm not I'm going to be cool and then not more than a couple hours later. I'm like, well, I screwed that up already but When we can see somebody's Humanity. Like we can Peters, we can be like, okay well I haven't denied the Savior and God still worked with Peter. So I know he'll still work with me and I think it's a way that we can find Hope even when we stumble and we fall. That's the very beautiful principle you touched on there, David.

50:19 I've noticed that one of the things the adversary works on us. The most is shame. To convince us how shameful we ought to be and how much the Savior wouldn't want our presence, how much God wouldn't want our presence because of how filthy we are and how much we screwed up. And I think that's completely opposite of what the Savior was trying to get us to understand. I think you took the example, you give Peter is a beautiful one. Well in in the other thing is and I love the endowment and and I love the, the Genesis account, both the one in Genesis and in the pearl of great price because I think there's so much we can take from there.

51:01 It's so rich. And it's yes in both in the ordinance of the endowment and then just reading about it in scripture, but one of the things that always Stuck out to me especially when I was first becoming Mormon period and coming in the LDS church. Because and I've admitted this before, and I'll do it again before I join the, the before I became a Mormon, I could have majored in Dirtbag Enos and got like a PhD. I was really good at it. And so as as a as we as, as we look at the Genesis account even after Adam and Eve have Are taken the fruit there.

51:44 They're attempting to hide from God, right? Hmm. On the charge by the charge, given by Satan to them, go and hide, and they're hiding, but the Lord still seeks after him. His God, still seeks after him. And I think that that's a perfect analogy for us that even when we screw up, and we think the, well I'm done. There's no hope for me. God is still reaching out. You know, David even if you even if your podcast was you just talking about principles without interviewing? Before I think I'd listen to it non-stop because you're hitting on so many great principles, I Love The Gospel and how much how much God seeks after us. I love how you put that I've noticed in my own life, no matter how far down the rabbit hole, I go, no matter how far I've departed from the gospel and turn my back on it and ran Every time I've turned around, the Savior was one step away with his arms wide open.

52:49 Absolutely, absolutely. You know, I Look, being a Mormon is not fun of any Stripe, Right. I mean, there's a there's joy there. I don't want to want to say that, there's not Joey there, but I remember when I got up off my knees, praying, I was like, I don't want to be a Mormon, they're weird. Right? And then you really double down and you go full fundamentalist. And then you're like, oh, this is getting way back, right? Where I was, I was really pissed about three our church and now it just went way beyond that. So so, yeah. I I think that that even in those times, right?

53:33 You can always you you look back after the trials over or after you've decided to look around. You're like he wasn't that far away from me ever. And I like what you said there David about turning around and seeing the Savior there, so to speak with his arms wide open. So I and again, that goes back to that whole Anything on our part that that we should be able to look back in history and see, not only a person's successes but maybe even their failures in their shortcomings. But then go wait a second. That guy was flawed, God still used him. Maybe he can use me.

54:13 Yeah. Absolutely. You know, there's there's a great example in Alma, the younger Saul who became Paul man, they were vile. Absolutely vile. And when they turned to the Lord, the Lord didn't squish their passion. They just redirected it and that, and they were so valuable to the cause of God, because they maintains the passion. But there it was redirected towards glorifying the Lord. And so, any of the like we have an identity, you you have an identity, I have an identity, there's certain parts of us.

54:57 That some may think is sinful. Some may think that our personalities are without manners or whatever. But ultimately, I think that there's parts of us is long as it's not sinful. That is actually meant to add variety and help the cause. Absolutely. Absolutely. You know and I find it fascinating because the more I do these podcasts, the more I realized. Because at first, when I first started this podcast, I got to tell you David. I was super nervous. Like I've never done this before. Congress, you're a pro at it.

55:38 Oh no. I got a long ways to go but I remember. And again, I've told this story so to the listeners, I apologize. This came to me when I was laying in bed at 3 a.m. in the Away from home for work and I just never sleep. Well, in hotels anyway, without my family and this thought came to me of doing this this podcast and I'm like from a Mormon fundamentalist point of view, that's bat-crap crazy, absolutely not. But likewise I see someone like you, who's like, Movies told from a Mormon fundamentalist position, that's that's got a good ring to it, right? And so, but you have different talents than I do.

56:21 But if we can get past one cannibalizing, each other and then to just trusting that, whatever your faults are, it's okay. It's okay. Clean them up. You're not hiding anything really from God? It's not like he's looking down going, well, that really surprised me, right? He knows clean. Shut up. And then go forward just go forward and with Reckless abandon a little bit and it seen folks like you doing your thing with just kind of a reckless abandon that just I got to admit it just kind of Jack's me up a little bit. That's awesome. Yeah I like that term Reckless abandonment really I've noticed in in life and this is through many faults of my own that I came to notice this is that really Reckless abandon what is what is needed?

57:15 To really be effective. I think there was the term you used earlier. I think you said it was a authenticity. I think you mentioned authenticity and there's another term. I really like sincerity, anytime that you notice that somebody is authentic and sincere about what they're doing. If there's a spirit that comes with it. Yeah, to where you you almost, it's almost like you can't control, you almost have to respect it to certain extent. It's not like you're forced to, but it's just It commands respect and I want to talk about that word sincerity. It comes from a Latin, a Latin term called sink Sarah which means without wax and what happened early on with with the Greeks and the Romans. They would make these, you know, the Parthenon and these great buildings and palaces and stuff and marble was just as hard to come by back then.

58:10 And it is now an expensive that the Architects would sometimes. Only use solid marble pillars where they really needed to be structurally. But then some of the inner structure they make pillars out of wax and put a marble facade around it and then Palace has started to collapse. And so they termed This this term think Sarah which in the English is sincerity or sincere. To mean without wax marble through, and through the real deal and I have noticed that it one of my weaknesses is even with with you and and many other people I meet sometimes, I just want to be cool.

58:55 Sometimes I just wanted to fit in and if if there's a conversation that's happening that where I see that there's some - Gossip Girl, Jim, which is the spirit of the accuser that I know is not good. I'll kind of go along with it because I don't want to be, you know, insulted as being self-righteous or whatever. But in reality every time that I've sincerely said, Hey, I don't feel comfortable participating in this. I'm not accusing any of you guys and I don't want you guys to feel like that I would ever say these things about you when I'm mad of your presence.

59:35 But I want to Bear testimony to you that we should be building other people up rather than tearing them down. Every time I've been sincere enough to Bear testimony I've noticed a change in the spirit in the room and I've seen it with other people too. When they bear testimony insincerity, it's a beautiful thing. What's interesting to me is how you combine, what was the term you used Reckless abandonment with sincerity because I think the Reckless abandonment is proof of your sincerity. You're not a facade. You are without wax your true if you're true blue through and through like Joseph F Smith.

1:00:17 You've heard that story Avenue. Absolutely yeah. Yeah. I figured you probably heard every story out there. That's not true. I the more I do these podcasts, the more I realize. Yeah, I still have so much to learn, right? Which is part of the nice thing about doing these podcasts. As I tend to hear a lot of different points of view and in doing So, it makes me realize, you know, sometimes I think I and I think all of us do this to a certain extent, or at least I hope we do or else I'm really in bad shape. But I think we all get to a point times in our life, where we feel like, oh, I've got this figured out. I understand what I need to understand.

1:01:00 And when we do that, we kind of start to close ourselves off from maybe different experiences or different point of views, from which we can really glean a lot of wisdom. And so one thing with this podcast is it is taught me that yeah you don't know as much as you think, you know. So in sometimes it's almost resembled how my discipleship has been with my savior as well, right? Where it seems like, I get closer to the savior in the more, the closer I get to him, his light, really illuminates, all of my flaws. And I'm, I'm once again, going back and trying to do a little bit better.

1:01:40 That's a very, very, very good observation. And I would like to add a second witness to that, not not your flaws, particularly my own. Oh, you can add to them. I got plenty of room, you can do that. I've just noticed that many it. Anytime when I've needed Revelation to direct my own family and or on an important subject where I need further light and knowledge in need time when I've got Myself in a humble enough position and I go to the Lord that his Spirit actually start speaking to me. I'm I'm pointed out. What? I've got to deal with. I'm told things, like, I've got my heart set too much tip on, frivolous things that keep me from learning the things that I ought to be learning.

1:02:32 There's usually just a chastisement that comes with it and it's a gentle 12 merciful one. When those laws are pointed out to us, then we have an opportunity of overcoming them and that's what's so beautiful about having your flaws pointed out. I love that personally and what you're saying about the podcast and learning so much. There's a really, really good quote. I like it says, if all you, if you always do what you've always done, you'll always get what you've always got, and it's pretty simple quote. But that's one thing and I'm kind of like you except for I never did a podcast but I've gotten around to different communities, different different people and it's so amazing to visit with them. You get a lot of different perspectives that really actually just add, they broaden Your Horizon. If you're open to learn and I've learned a tremendous amount from that to one of the things that you touched on that, I'd like to emphasize too.

1:03:35 Is. Well, now, that I think about it, I'm having a stupor of thoughts, maybe it's not important, that that's all right. If it comes to you you definitely bring it, bring it back up. But one of the things that that I've noticed, sometimes as Mormons from every group or independent position, tend to forget is that Brig Joseph said it and then bring them also emphasized. Is that mormonism's about gathering in all truth? Yeah, right. And if we close ourselves off from other people because they're not, Well, one of us, we're not truly Mormon. I don't think I agree.

1:04:24 And I would, I would add we're not fundamentalist Mormon because the the adjectives the Joseph used is, it's a fundamental principle of Mormonism to accept truth. Let it come from whence it me. Absolutely absolutely. So we've talked a little bit here about how the scripts are coming together and about filming in. That sort of stuff. Have you thought about how you're going to do distribution? I have. And it's that once a really tough one because you will not find very many people that are excited to distribute Mormon material, let alone fundamentalist Mormon material, if it makes the Mormons look bad and Brigham Young look like a crook. They want to distribute it.

1:05:19 But if it makes them look good, they want nothing to do with it. So becomes very, very tricky. No. one of the things that I'm working on is actually just having a website, And the website would be to where people can go and watch these stories. Absolutely free but have something like you have set up with your podcast that there's an option that they can donate if they want to see more content or to do just like a monthly, I don't know what they call it. But Be a monthly donor. Yeah. A monthly donation and Whether whether that pays for the production or not isn't what's important to me, I would always be a help I intend to use whatever resources. I have to make it happen regardless but I honestly think the best thing to do is to have a specific website dedicated to the telling of these stories where people can view it. You know, I as you were describing it, I don't think that that's a Our out model to have right. Take, for example.

1:06:30 And have you seen the chosen I have? Yeah, I'm actually. I actually had several conversations with the director before he actually got full-on in the chosen. That was all crowd-sourced, if I'm not mistaken, right? That was all funded by by folks who just saw the value in it and went for it. And I think people are really hungry for For honest content, right? Even if even if they don't agree with with part of the message or whatever, I think, they're, they're hungering for authenticity, and for good content. And so I don't, I don't think that, that model is, is far out anymore.

1:07:17 I think, I think maybe a decade ago, it may have seemed unattainable but we're in this weird place. Now, where if, as a as a race of people, so to speak as the human race is right now, if we can manage not to blow ourselves up or do something stupid, Never before in history, has the middleman or the gatekeeper been under as much? Duress is what they are now, right? The decade ago, if you just said, hey, you could fire up a podcast on Mormon fundamentalism where you could print, you know, you could direct films on on, Mormon fundamentalism.

1:07:57 Good luck, right? That wasn't going to happen because you had to go through a certain amount of Gatekeepers. We don't see that now, right? Right there. There is a lot of Liberty with the technology that we have and it's incredible. I like the resources that we have. I like the chances that we have. In fact, I've said this before, but I fully believe that if if Joseph Smith and his Brethren would have had access to film and their day and time, they would have utilized it for missionary purposes to the best of their ability. Absolutely. They would have I think we live in a time now where any of those men would have given their left arms, whether it's about, you know, the gospel with Joseph Smith and Brigham Young or if it was, you know, Thomas Paine.

1:08:49 They would have given their left arm to have the reach that we have today. Absolutely, if we can just manage not to screw ourselves over to badly, I think we could be coming into a time to where we could see messages. Thrive like never before. I don't say this to toot my own horn. I say this. To, to give try to maybe give you a little bit of encouragement. When I first started this podcast, I'm like okay, it's going to be me and six other people, right. I'm going to talk to six people, probably worldwide. I did not anticipate the amount of feedback I got. I got folks from England and France that have messaged me late at night.

1:09:32 Want to know where they can find resources and stuff. It's it's nuts, right? That's an inaudible. I get a little freaked out when I think about it. So I try not to think about it too much, but yeah, I think we're in an amazing time, and I think the model you're thinking of is going to work, just fine. If you don't mind me asking where it costs, a lot of money to produce a film, right? Even a short film. What kind how have you been able to? Are you just writing checks out your personal account to do this or have you had any sort of funding or what are you looking like that way? Well currently currently, yes, I am writing out checks to do this but usually what I will do, if I have enough money, when a paycheck comes in, then I will definitely take out my 10% for tithing. And if I have a little extra, I also have a percentage that I set aside for getting the messages out, and that's, that's in field.

1:10:34 Now, some of my, some of my actors. I'll pay Some of them are like I don't want some of them are they want to help? They genuinely want to help and some of my crew as well. There's a very talented crew member that I have that you know like us also has the name David which is very nice and he's a very talented guy and with him. He we just trade, he has films that he likes to work on and he likes my help and I have films that I like to work on. I like, Has helped so we just trade that way but currently yes. I'm basically financing everything and I don't want that to take for my family too much.

1:11:20 If that's the way it has to be, that's the way it will be and I'll continue to do it because I won't let the lack of Financial Resources. Hold me back. Man, it sounds a lot like me firing this thing up to date. Full disclosure, one of the 87,000 IRS new IRS. Agents can come for it to this point. I have made exactly $150 off of welding, right? But but I just want to keep it afloat. I'm not looking to make a meal. That's right. I just want to keep it afloat because I feel in a weird way like I was called to do this. So if this thing never makes a penny but I can maintain it. I'm cool, right?

1:12:08 This is this is what I was tasked to do and this is what I'll do. So in you describing that it, I can totally identify with how how you feel about it. Well, we'll see David, it's beautiful. What you're doing to be Is there's so many things that we could listen to. And I don't mean this to toot, your horn either. But, but you are very engaging. I love love your enthusiasm. Your excitement for the gospel is just beautiful, and I think that that's lacking in a lot of areas, but even listening to your podcast, I can get a little bit jazzed about the gospel to, it's a very beautiful missionary work. So, even if it's not lucrative in any way, shape, or form in terms of our economic standard, I think that there's Treasures in Heaven for anybody who's willing to get a good message out to the glory of God.

1:13:00 I really do, I do too. And I told people as I've talked, as I've had other guests on, I've told them, man, you should start a podcast and and I'm like, if my voice, I shouldn't and I'm not. But if anyone ever tells you you shouldn't do it. You should really take a hard look on why it is. They wouldn't want you to. The more voices we have the better off. We are. I agree. I like the prospective. Go ahead, sorry. No, you're good. You're good. Um, when you were first starting this up, was it intimidating to you? Or was it just what you did for work anyway? Or tell me about that?

1:13:43 Oh sure. Full disclosure. When I first started filmmaking, it was to impress a girl. Yeah, but when I actually started doing it because I had never thought of it before until her and her sisters were talking one day, hey, would be really neat to take our sisters story and make it into a movie and some people in the room asked why? And for some reason, I just ask why not? And that week, I bought a video camera and never touched one before. And here I am for features and Civic shorts later. Quite enamored by the process and the the potential of it.

1:14:27 Basically, the idea behind Zion Productions. And if you've seen my, my blurb Zion Productions, pure in heart, the idea is to help us to become pure in heart for Zion is the pure in heart. And if you've ever seen a movie, That just inspired you and uplifted your soul, you know what it's capable of doing? And I know that I've been uplifted by movies, I would like just point one, one particular, one out. It's called 17 Miracles, he Christensen, put it out. There's an instance, in that movie and, and I've read the account. So, I know they verified this account.

1:15:09 But there's an instance in there, where this man and woman had their daughter freeze to death on the plains. And it's two for the grounds to Frozen. They can't dig a hole and it's too cold to just sit there and mourn. The company has to keep moving and Captain Willie was pretty determined. We got to keep the Hand cards moving, we're going to freeze to death and so in their sorrow, They leave their daughter, their dead daughter behind cover her in a blanket on top of the icy ground and start to go. And the mother, all the sudden says what are we doing? And the dad responds.

1:15:57 What are you doing? What are we doing? I'm going back for our daughter and she starts heading back. He's like why we got to keep up with the company. The company is leaving us and she says, a servant of the Lord promised us promised me that if I would live the gospel to the best of my ability, every one of our family would make it to the valley alive. And she runs back on that faith and she goes and starts warming up water. Takes that warm water and starts just gently caressing her daughter. And her daughter comes back to life. That amount of faith that was so well. Displayed in this movie is what I think we're missing in my point with it, that I noticed is she believed more in a in the promise of a servant of the Lord than in her own experience. Well, that is a remarkable amount of faith. And it inspired me so much to see that in a film. That it just Jazz me as a filmmaker. Even more to say, hey, if that if that film can do that to me, I want to make sure that I basically carry the torch on to the next person.

1:17:12 Those things can Inspire our souls. One of the one of the things that I find so fascinating about what you're doing. Is you're looking to impact make an impact, right? You're looking to put something out there. That is not just Faith promoting. But not only deepens your faith, but appeals to, to the best of us, right? Yeah, and If there's one thing that I've noticed in being a fundamentalist is that we tend and I understand why I do I get it, we tend to hide our light under a bushel.

1:18:03 Because there has been persecutions, right? I get that, I get that wholeheartedly. But I think we're in a different time now. David and you can correct me if I'm wrong. You've been a fundamentalist a lot longer than I have but As times have changed, all of a sudden. A dude with two wives and believe some far-out stuff about God doesn't seem quite as bad as it used to. It does seem like people are a lot more lenient and and accepting, I guess of that. Like, it doesn't bother them as much as it used to. I would agree. And, and because we live in this environment now, I feel like it's incumbent upon those of us who maybe didn't share in the experiences of folks that came before us.

1:18:53 And I am super thankful for the folks that came before me with in Mormonism. A guy who was never a Mormon that stuck to their guns and lived it and even lived it in hiding. So I'm so thankful for them. But if we're looking backwards to do it just like they did it, we're not we're not exploring what our mission should be, and I think today, rather than hiding we need to start becoming change agents within Society. I think you touched on one of the most important principles and one of the most important or one of the biggest reasons, That I'm doing this because I've had a lot of people come up to me and say, what, what's the point of this plural? Marriage.

1:19:46 Think why is that important? What does that actually do? It's so hard for people to live and The question that I asked them back as well. Would you agree that our modern society is on point on target? But they're on the right path. And every time the answer is no, I think we're, I think we're a mess. And so, my response to them is in the United States in order. Well, I studied demographics, so in order for a species to survive That species has to have at least a two point. One fertility rate.

1:20:29 That means you take a man and a woman to people and they need to produce 2.1 people on average for that racer that Society to even survive in America. We currently have 2.1 people per family among whites. Among the Muslim Community in America, they averaged 8.7. He a family. in Germany, the German government recently released a statement that said, by the year 2050, they would become a full-on Muslim Nation by fertility alone, mmm-hmm So if you look at Jacob to because people like to quote that a lot, look at Jacob to verse 30, when the Lord had basically said, tells the Nephites you are to have. But one wife he says For if I will raise up seed unto myself, I will command my people.

1:21:38 If Society is a degraded, It's because of the people that make up that Society. So what better time for the Lord to actually say, hey societies about to become degraded. I need a people that represent my holy name, my laws and are determined to keep them and you find a Few Good Men that are willing to take on multiple women and good women that are willing to work in that type of family unit. And what the result is, if people stay true to the Gospel of Jesus Christ is good children. Those children grow up and become tomorrow's Society.

1:22:20 So in effect, plural marriage is designed to create a god-like society. Absolutely. Absolutely. I remember so I don't know if you've listened to any episodes of the podcast. And again, I'm going to say something I said on here before and I apologize to the listener, but I practice plural. Marriage, for, for a time, about 6 years and one of the things that dawned on me was, is that in the LDS church weekend to look around and go like, okay, where's Ian, where, how are we going to build Zion? And it dawned on me one day that you can't build a Zion Society until you have, Zion families, Agreed 100% agreed, and until we get that basic building block down, I don't think we'll ever see Zion, like, we think or like, we hope to see it. I so agree with that, thought process. And, and so yeah, no, I agree with you, wholeheartedly is plural.

1:23:23 Marriage was designed to create strong families with strong children, period. One of the things I want to mention with that demographics thing I was telling you about that among the fertility rate of 2.1, white Americans. The nation is currently at the bare minimum for that species to survive. That only factors in Birth certificate, you know, right? Legal legal ones. If they were to go and redo the demographics and take all the polygamists and put that in factor that and I think you'd see a lot higher number. Yeah, no II would agree with that. I would agree with that.

1:24:09 I I think the other thing is, is that we're supposed to proclaim the gospel, right? And because fundamentalist Mormons, you're so fractured. There's there's a few groups who do send out missionaries but by and large it's pretty tough to get that message out. And one of the things I look at through film, and what you're doing is that it has a tremendous ability to to reach people. Is that something that you gave thought to? Absolutely, that's basically the big reason behind it. We need people, we need more people to help.

1:24:52 Build. This is Ian society that we're talking about, but it starts with becoming pure in heart, it starts with Desiring to be pure in heart, and if a film can affect me, the way that 17 miracles did war other films, Then we need to get more of that type of content out there otherwise Hollywood's win in the battle and we know who's running that show. Absolutely, you know, it's interesting I was really close to my dad and one of the things my Dad loved to do was watch John Wayne movies. And and so I got a soft spot in my heart for John Wayne I really do. But they were such good movies because the good guys were good. The bad guys were bad.

1:25:40 They didn't glorify evil and it was a film. You could just watch and enjoy, right? And not have to worry about a bunch of garbage being laced in there. Sure and what I've noticed come out of Hollywood at least the last and certainly in the time I've been alive and probably a little bit before that is there seems to be a self deprecation of America in general and really anything that is wholesome and And Faith promoting whatsoever. In your time because you said, you've done a little bit of work in there. You must have seen some pretty gnarly stuff. Absolutely.

1:26:25 I'm not going to touch a whole lot on that, but I do want to comment just briefly there was a, how do I put this? So I'm going to bring out the, the flds a little bit and and I love the flds, by the way, I love the people there. I've seen some things there that you know, are disconcerting, but you, there's some pure hearts there. So this isn't to Target the flds. I'm just using it as an example, but there was a Doctrine.

1:27:06 Some people call it. The one man Doctrine. Some people call One man is mm that became not just prevalent it was emphasized so much in that society that at a certain point what was being taught was that if the prophet says something that contradicts scripture, you go with what the prophet says. And so the entire emphasis came just follow that Prophet whatever he says even if The next one says something different than you follow. What the new one says. So not just fundamentalist but the World At Large kind of condemns that thought process a little bit, but I got when I got involved with filmmaking and started working with a lot of people.

1:28:01 I noticed that they were all trying to elevate their name in Hollywood. So that they could get the better jobs, Etc. So they could be famous or respected, or feel validated for whatever reason and anything Hollywood would tell them to think religiously politically or otherwise, they would buy into a wholeheartedly because what was being taught as it's not what you know in the film industry, it's who, you know, And so the big time ha shots in Hollywood could influence any aspiring filmmaker. to where they if they said one political thing, the aspiring filmmaker would buy into it and essentially Hollywood became the the aspiring filmmakers infallible. One man.

1:28:59 Infallible profit. And Yeah, we came pretty gnarly because whether they believe it or not, it was a religion. It is a religion. And I've seen firsthand who heads it and that is Lucifer himself. There are good people in Hollywood. I don't want to discredit that there are good people. I've met really good Christian people that are living right in the heart of Hollywood trying to produce good Christian content. but in my experience, As a whole. They all follow that one man Doctrine, so to speak.

1:29:42 And it had that man's name is Hollywood. Yeah, no, I could I could definitely see it. I and you can see it in certain figures, right? I think of Harvey Weinstein. It's the same sort of abuse. It's just in a different religious context, right? I mean, yes, you had Warren Jeffs, who was doing it from a quasi, Mormon point of view. And then you have Harvey Weinstein, who was doing it from a. I will make you successful, but it's still painful. Homage to the man. Absolutely. Absolutely. And that said it's a very dangerous thing when I was there because I had went to Hollywood to discuss a movie with someone. And this was when I was involved a little bit with Paramount, and I was staying with the guy who was subpoenaed to court, he was supposed to show up to court the next day, because he was being sued for a million dollars when he had nothing to do with the film except that he financed.

1:30:48 Most. That and the lawsuit was because the assistant director did more directing than the director did. And therefore, the assistant director wanted to direct your credit and direct your pay. And he was suing the producer who just funded it but had nothing to do with creating the film. And during that time, I ended up talking to a lawyer in Hollywood. He says, what what's the first thing you think of, when you hear the word Hollywood and I said, oh movies, he says, oh you think that's the big business, huh? The biggest business in Hollywood is lawsuits over who gets more money and who could use herbs more credit.

1:31:32 He says that is by far the biggest industry throughout Hollywood. And the reason I bring that up is because lawsuits Come from accusations when people use accusation, they turn accuser. And who is the accuser, right? They take on that spirit and it's very prevalent, very prevalent. It seems to be Not non-stop non-stop accusation. One person saying this about another person right and left. And there is definitely that Spirit there. That's how I recognized who was actually at the head of Hollywood geez.

1:32:13 So let me ask you this David what is your certainly you must have had a vision on what what the end game looks like for for this this film company. Are you wanting to just stay with historical? Got Mormon, kind of things, or do you want to Branch out and do other things that maybe our faith promoting and whatnot? Simply put anything that will help us become pure in heart, okay, but, but for now, what I've noticed to be something that just needs combat, it is the historical revisionism and and to basically just defend People like Joseph Smith, Brigham Young, John Taylor at cetera because they're targeted heavily.

1:33:03 So that's where I'm starving. I can't agree with you more. One of the things that I discovered right after I started this podcast was, is that one there? There were movies coming out that tried. I don't know if they tried harder, if it was just a natural outgrowth of, you know, the film. The street at large, but they were painting anything having to do with Mormon fundamentalism in a really negative light, right? Yeah. Promotes, Bloodshed and abuse and all those things. The other thing that I noticed, right away in after starting this podcast, was that there was an element out there, who was wanting to rewrite Mormon history, so that it could be more palatable.

1:33:53 For everybody. And what we got out of that were films. Like who killed Joseph Smith? I had Kimberly Watson Smith, who's a devout member of the LDS church, but I think she's a rockstar because she's great. She goes, she goes hard after this and to listen to her talk and the time and effort, she has put in is so important. But I can't agree with you more, that, that We have to have some light coming from the other side to counter some of that Darkness. Yeah. Agreed. And I'm glad you mentioned Kimberly because she is the rock star.

1:34:33 She is fantastic at what she does. She's researches things very, very deeply and Gets accused of being a traditionalist, that's a term that historical revisionism like to throw out. If it's a label there, traditionalists, they can't improve. Because there, there's so much on the Traditions. Well, I like the way Hugh Nibley puts it. He has this talk, he calls change out of control. Yeah. And in that talk, he mentions how We've become so obsessed with the idea of change that we think that everything needs changed and that's called progress. He says, but if we're ever going to get to where we need to be, we need to recognize this.

1:35:20 Some things need to be changed as much as possible and some things as little as possible. The ordinances, for example, right things that the Lord specifically said do not change and historical revisionists, basically have taken the spirit of progressivism in saying that, whatever change we decide is actually progress. And if you're not going to change something, you're not even trying to improve. Absolutely. As far as her being quote, label the traditionalist, I got some people I could introduce those folks to that would make her look, you know, but yeah, yeah yeah Mormonism. I feel like right now, whether that's LDS whether that's fundamentalist group or independent fundamentalist we're kind of in a war for our souls, right? And definitely the cells of our kids and The sooner we recognize were in that spot that were placed on the in this battlefield of ideas.

1:36:28 The sooner we can get down to business of trying to repeal some of those attacks. Absolutely agreed. I like the quote that says you the best or the first step to overcoming, a problem is to recognize there is 1. And the second step is to recognize what it is. Stephen Covey says diagnosed before you, prescribe and when it comes to raising our kids and knowing how to bring them up, righteously in a very unrighteous environment, it behooves us as parents to diagnose a lot. Yep, and N it's if we're reactive then we're going to start writing prescriptions for our children without diagnosing, what the actually is the problem.

1:37:15 And I think that in our environment of hurry, hurry, hurry, get it done. Get it done. Get it done. We want it done yesterday then it tends to make us rich tasty and make irrational decisions. And I believe that that's very detrimental. Patience is key in all of this, I think. Yeah, I think you're right. I think you're 100%, right. It's nice to know that that not not that the work that you're doing now isn't super important because certainly, I put my emphasis on it a little bit and again next week I'm going to do another show another podcast with again, someone very recognizable that seeks to combat that Great yet, that that revisionist history, but to know that you got some other interest down the road. That's kind of cool too.

1:38:10 There's so much great content that has either been written or actual events that just never get touched on. And to see someone like yourself who's taken taking that challenge to, to bring that to the Forefront. Man, I can't tell you how much I'm rooting for you and pray for your efforts here, because Cuz I think we're in a spot now where we have to be those change agents, right? We have to be able, even to people who aren't Mormon, we have to be able to point to something better. Something pure something that bears light, and not Darkness or else, we're not fulfilling the commission that the Savior gave us as being disciples 100%. Anybody that's taken the sacrament to take upon ourselves, the name of Jesus Christ in the The bread represents, we become the body of Christ. His mission isn't finished.

1:39:08 And since his, if his body was here and it's glorified State, we'd all be vanquished his presence. And so we've been given the commission to continue his work. We've become his body in that sense and we must rise up. We must continue the work that he's given us to do. And and with that said, and I absolutely hate to cut this short because I've so so enjoyed this conversation, but I do need to go, but I would like to say that, with you, even anybody that sees any value in this filmmaking Journey Please don't hesitate to contact me. I'm looking for a network of people that want to share in this type of Mission to share a good messages that are both from a historical perspective and just something that promotes the pure in heart and I would love to hear from people and start Gathering resources and stories and different things that would would really help get us into more of a Zion mindset and I am open to advice opinions.

1:40:15 Corrections. If you have any for me, David, you're free to correct me on some things because I want to learn. I really do and want to share the things that I've learned as well. One last thing David. If someone wants to donate to this cause where can they go to make a donation? Well, right now, I don't have that setup but the best the best place to start the conversation. At least is too. Just email me, it would be at Zions films at priest.com and we can start that conversation at least fantastic.

1:40:58 All right, David, I'd love to have you back on if you're if you're open to that because I would love to follow the progression of how these things are going. So actually, when you start getting close to releasing the film, let's let's get you back on because I really Join our conversation. Sure, thank you so much. I'll go ahead and send you one. I just finished just so you can view it and I'd love to hear back from you on what you think of it and if we're going in the right direction, so fantastic, that sounds great. Alright, David Patten, you're a rock star, man. I appreciate it. As are. You David Sanders? Thank you so much. All right, bye everybody.