Episode #202: Faith Forged Through Adversity W/Cory & Joni Molloy

0:30 Listening to the Mormon Renegade podcast. For a Joni. How's it going great. So good. Good, you know, full disclosure we've known, I guess we've known each other now, about a year and a half, right? And so it's not like we're unfamiliar but as it's just kind of watched and saw how you guys go and just timing was never right. I always wanted to have you on to talk about how it is. You you got hanging out with fundy's because you normally don't get there by happening stance, right? It's not like anyone ever, it's like, oh, there was a banana peel on the sidewalk and when she know it, I fell right into a group of fundamentalists. So those things are usually a little more deliberate. But man, I'm glad you guys are here. Thanks for the invite.

1:25 We feel just grateful to be here. We have a real kinship with a lot of the folks that have been on the podcast. I've listened to every single podcast here and just I feel like it's really helped me my testimony. My understanding of the Gospel principles to grow and so I'm just a really big fan of that and I feel like I've been a, you know, a member of the church who tries to go extra mile and just really wants to improve my spirituality and connection with my handling father. And so, The insights that I've learned, you know, buy some of these conversations you've had have just been profound and and helping me feel closer to my heavenly father. And so I just really have That positivity, I just want everybody else to know about this and kind of share that these gifts and the insights that we've been learning.

2:14 So, you know, just glad for the opportunity to come here and, and speak to the audience here that I have such a appreciation, for Well, I appreciate the kind words about the podcast, A good rule of thumb, CUNY out and then just listen to the guests. You're going to be fine that way. So don't have you. You're you're here too. Yeah, well I mean just to give a little background. So Taylor Smith and Justin Franco. I met those guys in college. Oh, you might say that how I kind of became friends with fundamentalists even though I'm active LDS. So but even before that and I know now like with what's happening online, you hear people say like oh you know, I never knew Joseph Smith was a polygamist or you know, I never knew we were associated with those crazy people that wear Pioneer dresses and and those big thick braids and that always stunned me because I mean, I'm my ancestry um, I have some people that were there in Nauvoo. Joseph, Smith's bodyguard.

3:28 I mean, so, I mean, I'm, I've got the blue blood Mormon, Mormon stuff going on here and he's, yeah. So I I've always known I've had polygamists, but it really in my family line, but I really hit me hard when I I was really close to. Well, I growing up, we moved back to small town Arizona, where my both sides my family my grandparents were. So I I got to grow up with my grandparents and but my dad's Grandma, I was Close to both my grandparents but it's really close to her. She inspired me like health and nutrition is something Corey and I both care about but As I was got a little older, I realized, you know, she was really close to her grandmother as well.

4:16 Who was a second wife and she died in 1950, and in my early 20s that just struck me. I was like, wow, you know what polygamy is a lot closer to us than we realized. I mean, this was my Grandma's Grandma. She knew her, she was alive. She would ride the school bus out to her grandma's house and hang out with her. And her grandma was kind of like a Brigham Young era type Pioneer. She, you know, so my grandma. Laura. Laura Lewis McBride, is my great. Great grandmother. The second wife of Peter, Howard McBride, and so she You know, she chose that life. She chose to be a second wife.

4:58 She asked him basically and she never complained, you know? And it was the life, she chose and she loved it. And it's just interesting. She's one of the few ancestors that actually told her life story and so I have her story and I asked my grandma about it though. I said, did you ever ask your grandma about pulling me? And she said, she just said it was a very special thing. She felt like a special thing to be, you know, it's so fascinating. Because a lot of times, right? And and I want to start here, let's start with your guys's backstory and stuff and then we'll work our way up from there but it that's that's fascinating because So often we, you know, I I think back to life in two movement, right?

5:46 And what was what was the um, What was the kind of the slogan? Believe all women, right? Yeah. And except if that woman happens to be coming from a certain perspective and which case she has to be subjugated there's no way a woman could have enjoyed her experience and plural marriage, right? We know better that she must have been coerced and so I do find it. And interesting kind of a hypocritical stance, right? Believe all women. Unless that message isn't like those folks on the left want to hear. So, so Joanie what we'll start with Joni and then we'll move to Corey here real quick. So I feel like Yeah.

6:27 That was part of my motivation to come on is, we're hearing all this, like, feminist anti patriarchy stuff. And I have an interesting story in relation to that. So, you know, I grew up in probably the perfect Mormon home, you know, two parents mom stayed at home. And raised us, we were homeschooled very, you know, very conservative, Christian background and family home evening, everybody. Yeah, pretty my family was pretty strict about out scripture study and like what movies we watched and you know very wholesome and good and you know, so Monday Night, Football never got mixed in there as part of family home evening. I mean that's what we did around our place. So I was neither unfortunately and I guess fortunately that I married Corey instead of somebody who loves football. I I'm like football kind of wasn't a thing in our household. Oh, I'll tell you what I stretched it. I'm not gonna lie my time in the church. I absolutely stressed it stretched. It like, I tell the kids, well, you see the Chicago Bears, they're like they're like Lucifer in his hordes but then you have the, the ultra virtuous Green Bay Packers who are here to defend that but it never translated. Well at church when the kids would would talk that way for some reason.

7:44 But so you're you're joining your growing up in a very um, I shouldn't say strict, but a very um, structured home with the gospel right now. Growing up. You just talked about your grandma. Did you hear about that as a child? Is that something you learned about later? As an adult like when? Um, and it was interesting in church today a woman got up and Border testimony about her Pioneer ancestors who were in Mexico, like corn, Colonial, Juarez area or Colonial Garcia where, you know, the Mormons went when polygamy became illegal in the United States so that their families wouldn't be separated.

8:27 And she mentioned that her grandma was six when they were kind of kicked out of Mexico when Ponte via came through. And so they came back across the border and my grandma, my great grandma was the same age. One of my great grandma's that that happened and so she would share her stories and she left to be about 100 and one more 103. So she was, you know, she was quite the Centurion and she had memories of that, you know, being like, Kind of in the immigration camps or whatever, on the side of the border and people coming to see the Mormons and she said they were checking because they heard that Mormons had horns on their heads, so they're yes trying to find out if we had for the horns.

9:10 And so, she remembered that as a little girl. And so, anyway, that so I was like, well, I should look back in my family history and I noticed, well, because I was like, well, what were her parents doing in, you know, Mexico in the first place where they bullied missed or were they one of the polygamous ancestors that I have? I had a lot of polygamous ancestors actually, so I looked back and and my ancestral line is from the first wife and they had 13 kids together. And, and her dad actually died. Really, young Hebrew man asked the cloth Juniors. His name or senior one of them and he had a second wife, but I was scratching my head at the date.

9:51 I mean they would have been in Mexico at this time, of course, but it was 1898. So I was like, oh, You know, if you go back to some of David's other podcasts about the post Manifesto, polygamous sounds like, oh, there it is right in my family. They were never excuse or anything. As far as I know, people don't take into account. Just how ready will for Woodruff was to say one thing and do another, right? He was not going to let that thing just die. Now, they had to take some inventive steps to get it done. But nonetheless, they got it done. And I think it's interesting like People forget that a couple things right like the descendants of those folks who either went down to. The colonies went to Canada or even just stayed on the down low in in the states they had a lot of children, right? And People forget Mitt, Romney's Mitt, Romney is descended from those folks, who went down to the colonies, right? Like we almost had a president that um, was a descendant. Of people who practice plural, marriage. Like it's it's not that far and the other thing is It really was that long ago, right?

11:07 We tend to think it was a long time ago, feels like a long time ago, but it's really not. I remember I was listening to a comedian once he had this great bit and he was talking about how How things aren't as far removed as what they think and one of the things he said is like okay personal lives to 80 or 100. That's one person ago. Right. That's that's like one person to go and it reminds me of another story. I got a call from a gentleman, once when I was living in Utah, after I started the podcast, He's like, hey, I don't want to go, I don't want to be recorded and published but I got some history, you might be fascinated and so I'm like, sweet, you know, I'm always down for that.

11:47 Let's, let's have time to talk and we did. And he told me that he had either grandparents or great-grandparents as early as like as late as like, the mid 60s, who were living out in the open as polygamists, in their Provo award. And I thought there's no way, there's no way, but then I started doing the math, right? Like the last man of festo, I think comes out in 1903, 1904, if I'm wrong on these dates, I apologize. But was the early 1900s, right? So let's just say that throuple, if you will was in their 20s, when they got married. They'd be in their 80s in the 60s, right?

12:27 Not out of the realm of Of possibility and likelihood. And so this is not as far removed as what people tend to think it is. Right? And part of my reason for coming on to this podcast and saying this, you know, as an LS member is that You know, in India to try and understand Joseph Smith in his look at me, we're kind of, you know solely their their name and we bring up this like oh well if it's not a legitimate legal marriage, it's Adult Swim. It's adultery. And you know I actually work with attorneys and what most people don't realize. So so you know, so If our ancestors were married by the proper Authority. That's one thing that we should honor and cherish them. And if you think break off groups, don't have the proper Authority.

13:17 That's one thing. But you want to talk about legal matters. Did you know that at every state has something called a common law marriage and if you stay together, long enough, you're considered married by the by the law. Even if you didn't go through the normal legal steps of marriage, you know, and it's the same thing with property ownership, there's a point where ownership you know, they say is 9/10 of the law. That's where that comes from. There's a point in law, where By defective you become an owner, you become married, because guess what you had kids together. You're committed, you're staying together, you're providing for those kids and the loss supports that and it should support that.

13:58 Absolutely. Yeah, no it it's it's gonna be interesting in the near future, I think because As Society continues to question, social mores and that sort of thing. Plural, marriage is going to come up. It already has right. Like It's just a matter of. Will they accept it from kind of the right side of the spectrum, right? Look, Mormon fundamentalist tend to be pretty conservative in their views and in their in the way they live life. And what I've noticed is that there's a definite double standard that happens. And to point this out, there was an article, I want to say either from The New Yorker or like, the back page of the New York Times a couple years back that had Had three guys.

14:48 Together. Like biblically together, um, raising a kid, right? And um, the the news article was like, oh these poor people, you know, love is love and you know, whatever it is. They're they're not recognized, but us on this side of the spectrum, we're not going to get that same treatment because it's in the guise of religious, right? Or more conservative side of the spectrum. So it will be interesting going forward to see what ends up happening on that front, but that's good stuff. I really like that. So, I was always a very studious child and, you know, my dad, since we were homeschooled, took our learning seriously.

15:33 And so reading was a big thing. Yeah, and so unfortunately, probably Or maybe fortunately, depending on how you look at it. My my first exposure to like church history, was Gerald and Lund the work of the glory. So yeah, we kind of talked about that off off camera too, and when those books came out, you know, I was probably like 10, but, you know, I read fine. So I was reading things probably more mature than my age level, and I would watch my sister's, my two older sisters and my mom, you know, a family of eight kids.

16:16 I guess he only buy one copy because it was a it was a fight to get to this coffee. I got my doorstep first. I get to go and read this, you know. And so I watched that and I begged and begged, please Mom. Can I read it too? Please, can I read it too? And a lot of my, um, I'm gonna I felt like, you know, growing up I never really questioned Joseph Smith as a prophet personally. So I feel like I always have that as a testimony, but he came alive to me in those books and whether or not they're accurate or not, I haven't even read them back as an adult, you know? But those those were very precious times to me.

16:56 So, you know, so I got a hold of the work in the glory, the first volume they had already moved on to other volumes. So I could, you know, enjoy it to myself. But my 12th birthday the sixth volume came out. And so, you know, I'm very young, very young. I'm I'm still kind of hanging out with one of my best friends who still likes dolls and I thought it was a little old for that at that point. But, you know, with her, I'd play with dolls and so I get it like tea sets for my 12th birthday along with the Sixth or the, you know the last volume. The work of the glory were Joseph Smith is martyred, but that book goes through polygamy, through the Steve family's eyes and I don't think that the seeds are ever polygamists in the series. I don't remember, but they have those conversations between the sisters saying, well, you know, think about it this way, if you're Best friends.

17:51 Spouse died, I guess kind of like a right. Type marriage argument Pro for plug me? Would you be willing to you know, take them in? Would you share your husband when you put a face to it? As in this is somebody that you love and care about. And You know, I remember going to my mom and crying like why did Joseph Smith have to die? But those things kind of stayed with me and I always, I've Loved history. Yeah. My studied a lot of philosophy and history and college. And I was an art major too for a little bit. And so I, I love reading love history, I love studying. I'm not I'd say I'm pretty logically grounded. I have a good sense of logic and and learned that through my study but I'm not necessarily like a research or a paid historian or anything like that.

18:42 But I have a I have a good depth of knowledge or probably more breadth than depth of generally of history and so You know, these are things that I loved and, you know, going back to that, that little girl, that that shape to me, you know, learning more about our Pioneer ancestors and stuff and I, I learned it from more of the traditional LDS to respect our ancestors. But my my great great grandmother was definitely very respect worthy. They were simple folks, they were farmers. They you know go back and forth here in Mexico. You know take turns with the first wife as the armies or authorities came through to try and you know, Eradicate polygamy. But so, you know, so I had, I had just like a family history. I was never embarrassed and ashamed of it, and when I went to college, I did have somebody, who was a polygamist go to that, it was a little, like, Not accredited college. So it was really interesting experience but we read a lot of original sources like the great books back behind me and and so that's where I met Taylor and Justine. But I also there was all so a couple polygamous that ended up there and so I got to know them and one of the guys Sister came and stayed with me and I asked her everything, you know, I offered to let her stay with me.

20:12 I asked her everything. So I was always kind of just curious as what you had you're like, let me open up my home to you and then I'll pick your brain and find out about this fundamentalist thing. Yeah, so even growing up knowing about it. It's like Curious about about, you know, the the break-off groups, like how did they live? What was pulling me? Like, what how are they building? Zion? And, you know, and she, she had her head screwed on straight, so I don't know where she is now or anything, but she was an Asti, there. She's her. A her two mothers were sisters that married at the same time. And the advice that her parents gave, her was like, look, Mary one person at a time, get to know each other first.

21:00 And then, you know, bring in someone after you guys are solid in your relationship, and that felt pretty like, not the Press of abusive. Type of advice, you would give that seems like that seemed reasonable advice to give a daughter. That was, that was where she was at. She was engaged. They were going to get married and maybe someday have another wife, but it was open for discussion and they were gonna get their, their relationships figured out first as newlyweds. So, you know, so she she came and went, but then years, Will not yours. Probably. Just like the next year later. I'm going back to its was George with University. George with college.

21:46 This little College in Cedar City, which fantastic. But can I ask a question real quick? Because I get the answer. And, you know, I want to say this, I I understand why. Why a woman would feel this way, right? I'm not saying. Plural, marriage is just easy and, and, you know, everybody should do it. That's not what I'm saying at all. However, I would understand how it could really. Be a challenge for the Sisters. Oftentimes there's an ick factor that goes along with that, right? And sometimes I think it's just from living in Victorian you know whether we like it or not or whether we realize it or not, we do still have a lot of Victorian era sensibilities that we keep in our society.

22:34 And not all of those are bad. I'm not saying that that's always necessarily a bad thing, but what Joseph is doing, isn't Victorian, right? It is, it is harkening back. So you never had an ick factor with that, you were never like gross, not, you know, never never ever, you know, like animosity at all. so, Of being LDS. It's all, you know, growing up your kind of like, well, am I ever going to have to practice this, you know, especially I mean now I'm a little more mature and I'm like, yeah, the church is not gonna re-institute at any time soon from what I can see. But, you know, but when you're young, you're kind of like, will I have to let that?

23:16 And I know a lot of women experience this like, well, you know, if my husband died, or if I died, my husband marries another woman. We're automatically like polygamists in the afterlife and you know, and it gives him like panic attacks. And you hear that kind of from these left is feminists too. And this is interesting because this is like sick, way is right into where I was going with this. So let me say this. So I think, every woman whether She's gonna live in this life the afterlife or just in the exploration of her family history or Mormonism. Kind of has this like You know, question like could I live? It is the question, you know, and you ask yourself that and you're and you're like a lot of women are like heck no. You know, and the majority of them and I think for me it's not that it wouldn't be hard but it was sad. I already had. kind of like a love of pioneer type women that I for me, it was more of an affinity with these women, then with the idea of myself living it necessarily and, so, I'm probably more open to it than most, but it's still kind of more of a theoretical.

24:33 Not like, I'm planning to live. It does that make more sense? Oh, that makes that makes total sense and look, I've said for a while and I truly believe this, that's as important, just as important as quote, Living it, right is getting getting the heart on board, which is always hard, right? Um, Right, right. And so I I can only, yeah, I can only imagine that. So, I'm sorry to interrupt the story, but I just I had no, I think that's a really good point too, because I think a lot of women, see the pygmy as like this. Abrahamic test of, would I, you know, give my whole heart to God to the extent that I would share my husband and that is a tough question to answer and I think I think guys probably I mean, I guess have other ways that they would ask that question but it is it is like that it's like this is it is a real sacrifice I think. oh, I think it was a real sacrifice for our ancestors to try and answer that question and I think I think that's kind of a question that even my dad the way he taught us, you know, religion was always like would you sacrifice you know what other people's opinions are to follow God. And I think all of us have to answer that question. Outside of polygamy, too.

25:55 Like we have to give our whole Hearts to God and take, take go with Heavenly Father wherever he leads us. And so, it's interesting because I think a lot of women feel that with polygamy, but it is what we're here to do is and it just give our whole Hearts to Our Father in heaven and become like him. You're you're absolutely correct and I'll tell you what. There are times that I have looked at at my arm, my own um, oh, Journey to this, right? And I remember really starts. I remember, I was standing in the font. I remember I told God as As. As the guy who baptized me saying the prayer.

26:37 He says, I just say to myself and and to God, you know, I'll follow you wherever you want me to go. As long as I don't have to feel like I do right now before this baptism, right? If I never have to feel that way again, I'll do whatever it is. You want me to do more or less story is be very careful what you say you're willing to do. He said, he'll take you there um but it's going. Yeah, no, totally. I can I can totally get on board with what you're saying there about giving over your whole heart. But that's that's really what it's about, right? And primary just one aspect of that. Alright. Alright, so back to my, you know, my fascination with polygamy, I guess I'd say call it, is that?

27:20 So the next year's in college which kind of prepped me for where I'm going with this, like I didn't take the traditional Mormon woman path, I was single for a long time. Got married later in life, that kind of a thing. So and flashing back to high school, my friends would be like, what do you want to be when you grow up, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I feel like, I want to be a wife and mother and then they would be like, oh, you're gonna be like the most likely to get married right out of high school and boy. I sure proved them wrong because, you know, I I was not Right. I I was not because of the way I was raised.

28:03 I was not planning to have a career. I was not being a career woman, you know. So I wasn't a traditional feminist but life threw me kind of in that where I, I wouldn't call myself a feminist with the extreme. Radical way that feminists has feminism has gone nowadays, but yeah, I think women should be educated. I think they should live on their loan live alone before getting married and get some skills underneath their feet and you know, so I feel like I'm a kind of a lies our snow more feminist of let's have women more educated. Let's have them making choices. Let's Empower them. And in those ways because of my lived experience, but flashing, back to college.

28:44 So I go back and now I'm roommate with A and I'm like probably 21. I try to remember exactly how old I was 2021 probably 21 yeah 26 year old, that's not married. And her older sister and two friends and their The other girls all turned 30 while I was living with them, which seemed old at the time. And then, you know, there I would be in the same situation years later but that that they were the first ones that brought up this idea of. Well, you know, some feminists think that polygamy is actually the feminist ideal and I was like, really what?

29:25 And that was so fascinating to me. And that's where I've kind of in preparation for this was reading a few things. And if you read feminist articles, I want to actually, I want to jump into the definition of patriarchy because this is a word that's getting thrown around right now. With feminism with Mormons in feminism, with anti-polygamy group or polygamy. Denial group that, you know, it's like well, this decide what is patriarchy, what is the idea? Because we called plural, marriage, patriarchal, marriage at one point. Well, patriarch means the fathers Um, but a patriarchal society by a feminist definition is one, where men have more power and to make that more tangible and not this, oh we're all victims and men are evil. It's it's the men have the control, more decision-making power and usually that's being passed down in like Victorian style of like father, son gets to own property. Women can't vote.

30:33 And that's what was so fascinating about. More recently. I am diving into a few feminist articles where they, they look at that. They look at Eliza R, snow, and Brigham Young's ligaments. And were they really feminist? And they say, Well, they're operating under the Victorian era of patriarchy where the men are kind of in charge. But they really did open up a lot of A lot of opportunities for women, you know, you have Eliza ship, who goes back and learns to becomes a woman. Doctor, you know, goes back east and these feminists are sharing these stories about how polygamous women and I can share some screenshots if you want me to dive more deeply.

31:21 Oh hey, I've already granted permission so you should be ready to rock. Yeah, we're polygamous. Women actually are challenging, the Victorian era, type ideas of women should stay at home and it's it's not lady like to be working. So, Joan Iverson, feminist, implications of Mormon polygeny, which is the accurate word for Polygamy. And are we sharing our screen recording? You just? Yeah yeah. Okay you just hold it up. so, there's There's a little green button at the bottom that says, share if you just click on that. Gotcha we got a blue I think I've got that one. So it's really fascinating and she's You know, the conundrum for feminists is that technically any religion and monogamy is also patriarchal so that's I guess part of my pet peeve and my goal in sharing.

32:25 This is is there's a lot of liberals right now who are Mormon feminists who wants us use this word to only talk about how men are abusing women which I think is a real thing that happens in the church unfortunately. And there's things that could protect women against that, that should be done. That the church doesn't do. But the but the real thing is the word patriarchal in a feminist sense. Even monogamy is patriarchal because the man that the household and even religion because of the way religion has been structured for years has been like, you know, the fathers and the everyone's more in charge than the women. And when you start to look at Mormonism to me like we have Joseph Smith sets up Relief Society, a woman's organization. So I mean that's very unusual.

33:17 For that time. You've got Brigham Young sending these women back east, from Eliza Arsenal's bidding saying. Hey look, we've got high mortality rate out here, baby. Start dying back East to become midwives and doctors. And anyway, so in this article, she talks specifically about how women Part of the Victorian angst against polygamy during the time and reason they went after these women was because they were working outside of the home in traditional male roles. Like, It was the frontier. They had to take care of the army then and when women well let me go through if I just click. Yes.

34:00 Um, So the Utah women's defense of polygamy, rooted both in Mormon Theology. And the ideals of the larger societies view of Victorian Womanhood was mounted in the face of a strident anti-polygamy attack. So a lot of a lot of modern feminists will discount. The idea that these women had feminist ideals from the standpoint that they think Corey there that's bigger that they they were just doing this from a defensive standpoint, so therefore you should listen to their voices once again going back to this, we're going to Discount their so she's been pretty honest as saying that even though there's goal for feminism is under the religion that we view as patriarchal that it's a lot more complex, how what the relationship was and for those who don't know, another thing that's fascinating is that And this the federal legislation against slavery polygamy was kind of like the two evils at the time that they were trying to eradicate. The Republican party was Actively against slavery. And they polygamy was the same thing. He was a different kind of Slavery to them. I think they call them the twin Barber's. Mm-hmm slavery and and plural marriage. And because of that, it made strange bedfellows with people that you wouldn't think, would normally join causes and one of those was the National Woman

35:32 Suffrage Association and yeah. And so here we have Utah, where women get the right to vote. And some people seem to think that, well, if we give these women, the right to vote, they'll get rid of, they'll get rid of the oppressive polygamy that, yeah, the men who are forcing them into, you know, the sex kind of kind of a thing where they're just oppressed over there. And they're just collecting wives and control certain backfires that happen in history that I enjoy watching. One is when England sends over Georgia, Oh gosh. Whitfield sends over George Whitefield because he's a problematic preacher.

36:16 To the colonies because he keeps talking about, you don't have to have a king. You can go straight to God that backfired, this one kind of backfire too and not quite as dramatically but it absolutely did. And and to your point about kind of strange bedfellows where I think we're in that time again, right? Because like I look at feminism and I think by and large it's been hijacked by crazy, right? However, I don't think you can just count what Joseph does, right? Joseph is radical in his views for that time in Christianity, you know, let's just start with the eve. She, it's not her fault, the world, as the way it is.

36:56 We owe her a debt because she particular fruit on. Likewise she is capable of deficient, just like a man and indeed, a man can't go where he doesn't where he wants to go without being married to a woman, right? You have the relief society, and if you want to go down a deep Rabbit Hole, the teaching on women, in the priesthood from After certain ordinances are is absolutely incredible, and so kind of the, the old traditional model of that. I think we're seeing it again, right? As women as men, have invaded women's sports, it's like now I find myself like Crap, the feminist has a point, right?

37:39 Like we're kind of in this together, it's these things tend to go in Cycles, right? They're not linear. And I think we're seeing another one. Come around. Sorry to interrupt again. Joni. Oh, no, that was perfect. Exactly along the lines of my thoughts, for sure. And so, yeah, they joined forces. Interesting to people like Harriet Beecher Stowe, which loved I loved her book but you know, she was very much against this whole Mormon polygamy thing. I go ahead and change it to the knights one. Um, let's see what this one. Oh, this one and this is funny. So, you know, those Victorian women were mad because the women were Often listed as heads of household.

38:19 And in the next slide I think I think just skip to the next flight. You know, these are kind of more In-depth than we need to go. Probably. Let's see. So the feminists would argue for more useful spheres, I don't know. Is this not going in quite in order? I'm not sure. That's number five. Okay? Yeah. Anyway you can stay there and all read it in a second but But the when I was hoping what's get to is that these are great but they're not the same topic was that these women has had the household were starting to own property and that upset the Victorian women and it's like, wait a second.

39:06 If what are these feminists back east fighting for if it can't be, that women can own property and be educated. And so this one's, this one's just more talking about how they Opened up, you know, the the Victorian concept of female delicacy, I like I'm too delicate to go to work. I shouldn't be suntanned. I shouldn't have any physical labor. I can do, you know, I can go out and do. Charity work for charitable, charitable organizations, but I can't demean Myself by working and that was part of what they were mad about the women.

39:50 These. feminists Mormons and in Brigham Young thyme or is there they were You know, proud to decide for themselves and not be held back by what Society said was improper. You know that they will know a 1000 times better than a man what what their skills and talents are and so flashing back to college again and actually, this was the Community College here. So this was, when I was still in high school, there was an article said, every woman needs a wife. And she was a feminist and she was arguing that. If we're going to define the 1950s housewife role, women, if we're gonna Define woman's role as simply cooking cleaning and changing diapers, then hey, everyone working woman, also needs a wife.

40:45 Yeah. And, and interestingly enough, you know, my mother's from Germany and we have eight children in our family, just like Joni and my mother actually, you know, made the comments several times. Oh, it would be so great. If we had another wife, you know, my dad kind of, you know, didn't really have much to say about anything, but my mother really genuinely thought that that would be a great idea. And she welcome to the idea and just thought, you know, too bad. That's not part of the church teaching right now kind of a thing. And that's a lot of this article that Joan Iverson focuses on which the next slides will go into a little bit. Is The Sisterhood that these Sister Wives have had and like, how feminists and Progressive those were?

41:30 But to me, I just read that and think of these heart touching stories and how how touching they are and she gets into how the Romantic idea of the Victorian era was part of the reason. Why polygamy was so distasteful, is it destroys your traditional ideas of romance? But I would say, monogamy, you have to root out some of those, even to be in a healthy relationship with the one person too. Because, guess what? It's not all. Going out to eat and whine and dying and and all that, you mean the Disney princess shows? Light, it's not just happily ever after they're still work.

42:13 Right. And like we were saying on a conversation, early or Dave. Gosh, the State president said something to the effect that will women nowadays have more choices for marriage and speaking to another part of my story being single. I guess I should, I could flash into that. Yeah, go back and pick that up. I think that's valuable for sure Joni. So um, so I was single for many years and so I taught at a private school or great experience. I worked with troubled youth, great experience. I was in Colorado for little bit so I kind of hopped around trying to figure out. Okay, well, you know, I'm I didn't really worry about it when I was in college.

42:58 So, you know, I was like, well, I'm in college. I've got my studies. I loved it. I felt like it. Liberated me as a person to just understand more like, what I believe, not just what my family had taught me just by reading like the great books and having discussions and and, you know, just fighting more where I land on things and being able to argue multiple sides of an issue from a logic standpoint. So that, that feel me as a person. But then once I was done with college, I kind of hit me. I was like, okay, I'm, I'm 25. Kind of a Mormon old maid. Now like what do I do with my life? And I went to college kind of more for this idea of getting an education.

43:42 So I wasn't Choosing a career. So that kind of threw me through a little conundrum. So I, you know, I worked different jobs. I had great experiences but for years, it was really hard to figure out what my place was because I wasn't getting married. So as any LDS single woman would do, I moved to Utah where all the single LDS people are? And this is an interesting time period because I moved to Utah when I'm 26 but I'm still single at 31 and this is right when they the church has a whole ton of young single adults and they're not sure exactly what to do with them. So, there are having everybody meet in one building up at the University of Utah.

44:31 Every Sunday and everybody from all over the valley is, you know, coming up and meeting because they're like, look, we've got all these post 30, whether it's a divorce, or whats going on, we thought of single People, what do we do with them? So let's just like a big state conference every day and there was, like, five relief societies and two priests Elders forms, but they were smaller than the relief societies were even the two? So it was really easily a one to five ratio. And then you, and then you look at the guys who Had their lives a little more together.

45:11 More marriageable from usually in a woman who's getting older and has put her you know feed under her cell has been providing for herself, has been pursuing her education more. That's kind of like this weird. Like these women are like well. I'm better off alone than half you guys out there. So he these women, you start to become a little bit more of a feminist, and some of them are a little too bitter, unfortunately. And maybe a little too independent. But you you at that point, you're pretty independent and you're kind of like, well, I dream of having a Eternal husband, and I want a family. It's what I've always wanted, but not gonna settle for something. you know, less than a guy that at least has my education level and my And earns about the same as I do.

46:03 And so a lot of women have kind of that that attitude, which is really, really fascinating. So, you know, so then then the dating pool gets even smaller, and smaller, and smaller, and you're like, this is really, an awkward. It was really not a fun experience. I would not go back to that for the light. Oh, that sounds. That sounds rough, right? I mean, Especially from the woman's perspective, right? Because I mean look if it's already two to one, I mean five to Five to one, right? I mean, and as you were saying, look, I'm well, I'm gonna be careful as I say this here.

46:46 If your dude who's a Mormon. At the age of about 30, 30, 40, you gotta ask the question. What's going on, right? Like, it's For a young man, it's a Target Rich environment right? Well, just put that way. And and so those guys that get that. Yeah, as you were saying, Joni maybe not the most marriageable. Right? And so that leaves that leaves the women in in particular, you know, where they where are they going to do? Well, and for the guys who are marriageable, I think it actually leaves them in a predicament too. It's like, here we are, women, we've got a biological clock, ticking and we're like You know, like do I like ringing by the neck. Do I rookie in what what do I need to do? To get a guy kind of a thing?

47:35 And these guys are like, I've got all these girls giving me attention. What do I do? How do I pick one? You know, so it creates it creates a quite the conundrum. And I think it's hard on both sexes and I think it was, you know, when you're single, you see it from your either, your female or your male perspective, but it's it's rough for my guy friends, too. Some of them are still sing a lot. It's it's rough for them too and it's it's maybe rough in a different way but it's rough. It's rough. Let me ask this question before you move on to tell us about what what your stake president had said. With that kind of ratio. And, you know, look it's a big thing in Mormonism to get married, right?

48:15 It's huge. It you know no other Christian religion is as dependent upon Federal normative behavior in their theology than Mormons are right. Yeah. And and so it's it's a big deal but running that kind of competition was it hard to Foster like Sisterhood in those words because And maybe I'm thinking about this with my guys brain, but like if the roles were reversed, oh, we're going to fist fights, right? Like we're gonna, we're gonna we're gonna thin that hurt a little bit. Did it create competition within those relief societies that made it harder to find, like, Sisterhood and unity. In these things.

48:57 I think so. I think. I've natural to be jealous, and I think that's something that One of these quotes Fanny Sten worth, I think is her name. She's one of the becomes the next, Mormon polygamist. And it goes around saying, Trying to get things, passed anti-polygamy saying how rough it was to be a polygamous, Danny Stenhouse. So she even she talks, she talks about how love and jealousy are synonymous and I think that's going to weigh too far, but I think we all have a tendency towards jealousy and I think Thankfully.

49:41 I was always surrounded with. Healthier relationships than that. And I don't know, and I wasn't like um, I mean, I wasn't horribly like I didn't have I mean, I guess you tell you have a weird combination of, you know, they're obviously there's a lot of Perfection in how women looks and a little bit of pressure there. And I always felt like I was pretty more grounded in myself esteem with at least with when it came to looks like I'm I wasn't overly worried about that.

50:21 I wasn't gonna go Get an eating disorder over a guy, and I wasn't like, horribly ugly or overweight or anything like, you know. So I didn't have any, but that was, what was funny to me. What were frustrating to me? It's like, well, I don't have anything. I mean, maybe I Helped wise and some of my politics maybe I'm kind of particular about what I want out of a guy. Like I want to be on the same page but I didn't feel like I was overly picky but it's hard. It's hard to figure out, you know, like when you're in the mix of that. Like what do we do with all these relationships? And I know girls struggled and there were hurt her feelings. You know, sometimes it's like, oh well I guess he was just being nice to me when he said, yes and took me on a date.

51:07 And, you know, it's it's hard. It's, it's just a hard situation to be in and I think most of the people I was around navigated it the best that they could. Um, but yeah, there was definitely some probably some some jealousy cropping up and some territorial Miss among the women. And, and that was one of the things that I didn't like, like, I wanted more. The Victorian, like, the guy chases me. I don't have to go out and Chase these guys, you know, it, because it's like you're like, well, maybe I should be chasing the guys then because maybe if the guy knows I like him, he'll he'll show interest. But it doesn't always work out that way. And so you kind of end up taking more of what people would say the traditional masculine role and being more assertive and having that backfire. And so you almost experience what the guys experience of those, you know, those Let Downs of gosh, he doesn't like me or he said no to a date or you know. So it's it's The rules.

52:04 Nobody knows what their role is and that was really confusing and part of its the generation to grew up with a lot of divorce, you know? And And broken families, and then the feminist movement of the 1980s. So they're not sure what the guys down. The girls aren't sure what's my role, am I supposed to be chased or am I supposed to Chase and you can see that playing out at least for me that more so than the jealousy aspect, that's what was playing out as everyone's just so confused about How do I even navigate this? What's my role do? I sit around and wait for the date? Do I go out and ask like, what am I doing? Gotcha gotcha. If we're done sharing the screen, can we take that off? Just because people will only see the the text up there. Yeah.

52:51 Um, and then You guys can. Can bring it back up when you need it. So don't don't fit, watch, you can't bring it back. So, all right, what as this is all going on. Then what what is you mention your stake, president? What's that all about? Okay, he wasn't my stake president, and this is afterwards. So I I'm gonna give a little more backstory to and I'll try and wrap perfect. No, you're good. No, I did not remember. And it was nice because I was pursued, I was blind and dying. He had two children, he was mature. He had a good job and he also was a CIA agent and a Navy SEAL.

53:32 So you're talking a guy who teaches Jiu Jitsu and has some serious skills. Very manly, very intelligent and a great parent. Yeah. Hi caliber guy. You know like so so, you know, so I find myself in that situation of, you know, like gosh, do I marry outside of the temple and hope it works out and, you know, go to church on my own or do I And this. And so I ended it and, you know, for me, I'm that was the right choice and for other women, Maybe not, maybe it is the right choice to to take that leap of faith.

54:14 But we had other things that we didn't have in common that Corey and I haven't commented that I am so grateful that we have in common so that would have not been ideal. So, looking back, you know, definitely the right choice to have made as much as I have respect him as a person, he was a great guy. He is a great guy. So With that in mind. So this take president we're talking to and he's not mine stake president, but he's saying, well, you know polygamy back then it was the frontier. It was necessary because they needed to establish themself. So as a society and have more babies and once again, we're kind of just over generalizing marriage into the so it's just reproduction. It's like no.

55:01 Marriage is a lot more than that. And so that's the only reason for polygamy. And nowadays is different and Corey pipes up and says, how is it different? Because, you know, There's all these women who are single that don't have the opportunity in the church to get married. What would we do about it? Yeah, I'm just one second. I just started exploring the topic recently because Well, online, it's become this big. Big thing polygamy, deniers did polygamy. Did Joseph Smith, you know, even even talk about this. Well, you know, we've had several on the podcast who've who've said, hundreds of people have have commented on Joseph Smith, teaching me the principal of polygamy.

55:43 So there's all of these resources that are saying that, yeah, you know, this was taught, you know, by Joseph Smith and then some, you know, are critical of Brigham Young because he did this and there's so much criticism and so much. Being said on this topic and even, you know, in the church in in conference it was said that a third of the sister's of the church are single on are going with out being married and that I guess Spencer hood is going to be okay for all of you who are doing your best, kind of a kind of a conversation and that kind of hit me to the core. And I just thought well, The gospel as far as I understand it, you know, it's God's.

56:24 Work and glory and Moses 139 to bring about bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man. And I have been reading quotes by Joseph Smith. And some of the early non Scholars who have said that. Basically, if you're the god of anything, if basically, you're the god of anything, wouldn't you be the god of your own children? And if that is, it kind of connects the dots on the idea that We're to become like our father in Heaven, because we're literally his children. And if you are a God that the part of that godhood is having big families. So, having extra children would be the greatest blessing that towards being like your heavenly parents that you could possibly have.

57:18 So um being polygamist, having more children in any way possible? All of those things fit into the idea of being like God if if you can have more of something, wouldn't you want that kind of a thing and yet? if you look at the statistics on, men these days, which I looked online, just kind of a brief Google searches, I found a study and 20 23. That was saying that only about 41% of men will get married, you know? And since 2023 which its declining rapidly which it could be significantly less. And then when I looked up the females Perhaps 90% of females would be eligible for being married. So that makes it if you were LDS, Conservatively, you would be twice as many females are available to each male. And when you look at the study is, you know, five percent of of men are cycle, paths, 5% or homosexual, 5% are criminals. And and just so about 15% conservatively, would be, you know, unfit for marriage or just be very poor choices for a female.

58:35 And if you just look at the dating, you know, at BYU, 80% of the women are looking at 20% of the men. So that's just a normal study when I was when they had the more you know the girls Choice dance at BYU when I was there. I got asked seven times to the dance seven times. A lot of these girls they didn't know each other so they were just going to ask the guy that they that they wanted to go to the dance with. And so I had to turn down six of the girls and and it kind of broke my heart because I just felt goodness. There's so many wonderful guys here. one of my roommates was dating someone, so he was already taken but I had You know, three other roommates and of them got asked. And I got asked that many times and that just it frustrated me because I thought, oh, there's so many great guys out there. These girls could have gone with But that is kind of what I was seeing in the dating pool and then like Joni says, you know, sometimes it's hard if you get asked that many times, you know, how do you make make up your mind as a guy? If you're getting asked constantly as the guy that girls want because you're a competitive gymnast and you're fit in your healthy and positive or whatever or you're just a little more social have better social skills that kind of a thing.

59:52 Yeah, and so that's, you know, that was interesting. So here, here he is. He's just chatting about how well pulling me back then it was necessary because the different, you know, nowadays, women can travel to go find a husband and I'm like, I moved to Utah. I like this is where you find a Mormon husband, and it's still took me years. And, and in that word, there's there were people from all over the world. Like, there's the guy from Australia, moved here, same thing. I just want to be here among, you know, LDS people. So I can find a spouse and Yeah. And he said and well they could also marry people outside of the church and I'm like oh what is a second grown up my whole life being told that Temple marriage is necessary for your Eternal family and yes I do think Heavenly father's very merciful. So I mean if you're doing the best he can and you remain single for the rest of your life, he's not going withhold blessings from you.

1:00:48 So I do believe that but still it's just kind of like what are we going to start saying that? The temples not that important because or Eternal Marriage, you know? Are we going to downplay it? Just because we've got this problem of singlewood going on. Anyway, I was just really sad. Yeah, he really mad. It's like, you told me that while I was dating the non-member, like that would have been a mistake because we had other things that just weren't aligned but you know, but I did love him at the time, you know, I had let myself fallen in love with him because He was the option and he was a, he was a good option at the time, you know? So got it.

1:01:37 So so what point you meet me, Cory then Actually we met at Lava Hot Spring when the eclipse came through in 2017. So August 21st. And we were watching it in different places, but the guy that I had a crush on, actually he and his friends, I met up with him after watching the eclipse because they were staying over in Lava Hot Springs, I'm like, well I've never gone and he's like, well yeah come so I kind of invited myself, but we were friends. So it was in a big deal. And anyway, so we go to Lava, Hot Springs, and Corey was there?

1:02:18 Same, I did just waiting out the traffic. Yeah, I went with my dad and one of the neighbor's in my ward, we would go on Temple trips pretty much every week. And, and this was just something we decided we really wanted to go there for and be there for this Eclipse. So it was really very, and so I walked in and I noticed he notices me, which was interesting because Corey's, super social and Corey when he shares his story. He's not the Molly Mormon that I was. So he's saying it out with guys drinking beer, just chat with them and girls of the bikinis and, you know, that was not my Style. So I thought that was strange that he noticed me, walk in, but apparently, he wasn't with that group, he was just being so social and because he came over to our group and made friends. And then, my friends brother came late and he's like, well, who's this?

1:03:08 Guy's is your brother and Corey says, no, I'm her boyfriend. I was like, hi. so, but at the time doing political classes and so I actually literally had guys that were showing interest and I would just invite them to the political classes that I was doing because I was like, look, either you're into me as I am and the things that I am passionate about or you're not and Corey was the only one who stayed the entire class pretty much. So I was like, okay. It's not just flirting, nice and it was over from there. You guys met that way, and then it was off and running. She was our teaching this political class on the Constitution, and just how to kind of hold government, elected officials accountable for Less taxes and less kind of encroachment in your life. And, you know, most of us kind of feel like things are wrong with government, but but we don't really know what to do about that.

1:04:06 And so, the organization she was working for they were trying to teach classes to help the public can grasp Roots, folks, and citizens, just learn how to hold government accountable, and I just thought the class was fantastic. And then, you know, I just remembered that I had seen her setting up in the capital Bill building, you know, just setting up a booth, you know, it the capital, you know, a year. So previously and I said, were you wearing this skirt? And and she said, yep. And I remember just kind of Airing at her thinking. Hmm, what a neat girl. I hope I meet her and I just totally wait on me and so how fascinating that you kind of, you know, connect the dots and you had a later time we met there, it um the Lava Hot Springs and then just really connected over politics.

1:04:57 And you know, it's so important. You know, when you look at your Your closest relationships that you you were aligned in those ways that, you know, politics wise and unbelief wise on constitutional principles and you know, Health Nutrition kind of what you eat and just the things that make you the core of Who You Are. If you. so okay, so that that kind of Brings us brings us to you. Now Corey right we've got Joni said of things. You born, a Mormon. I mean, what? What's your connection here? How do you get to this spot where you're at now? Well I grew up in Germany.

1:05:38 So my first 10 years of growing up, were very idealic. My dad was a branch president. The oldest town in Germany Trier, incredible views of castles and Vineyards. Is that where your folks are from my mother? And my father's side are both in parts of Germany. But my father's name is Molloy, which is full Irish and Molloy settled in New York. So my both my parents, when they were 17 18 missionaries and then heard the gospel and they both went on missions, went to attended BYU then met each other and then they wanted to have us children in Germany.

1:06:23 So they went back to where our families from, in the smaller towns there, right by lips and bourbon France. And personal. What was, what was the draw about? How having having you kids in Germany, Um very much. My father wanted to do a lot of family history. Um you know the genealogy of us is people and that was literally, he went to the place that he knew there were some ancestors for the molloys and fascinating stories that they have. As far as teaching the gospel over there, as a, my mother served her mission in Austria, ran around, while they were doing The Sound of Music filming.

1:07:04 And she was on TV and did a lot of musical Productions with the sister missionaries. So it was someone different back then, where they had, kind of a lot of leeway and she kind of traveled around seeing and sharing him and things like this. And my father went to Bavaria and so that's was his missionary as well. But the very first town that they moved to Baron castle where I was born. They invited the next door neighbors over for dinner. And started talking to him about the Book of Mormon. And found out that we were related. And just those conversations, just hit home, they did join the church and their son, you know, their whole family joined the church, their son and I went on missions together at the MTC. So we were there at the very same time, it just fantastic. How that He changed so many lives and my both my parents have been very missionary minded, you know? Pretty much since.

1:08:07 But Problems kind of started for us once we moved to America. Okay. So you just to recap make sure I got your folks are from America but they wanted to go over to Europe. To go Germany back to where their missions were do, genealogy, that sort of stuff and it's not working for the airport. Yes. Okay. All right. Perfect. That'll make sense now. So the first 10 years you said are pretty idealic and in Germany. Um yeah my mother. Grew up in Germany. So she can you emigrated during World War Two. And I've got a little story about her. That kind of interject, you know, about, you know, what happened with her. That it's really, you know, an inspiring story. But once I came to America, the idea was to come to Salt Lake, the Holy Land because There's the church influence here and they went to BYU.

1:09:05 They just want to raise their children. Instead of just having a small Branch with Wards and stakes and just lots of members everywhere and they painted the picture growing up that, you know, just so many members and things would be very nice once we got to America, I was kind of resistant to it. I don't think anybody really was all that excited about moving to America. um, but I really wasn't very accepted and My father's work, he ended up leaving the Air Force and trying to get work and it became a stressful time for him and we were best friends, I traveled to Europe with him. Did a lot of things spent? A lot of extra time with my father. That wasn't normal for most parents and most fathers to spend with their, their children.

1:09:50 I was the oldest son, so he took me with him almost exclusively, which kind of build a little resentment with my brothers and sisters and ended up being one of the reasons that I, I struggled, you know, to live at home. Well, I am didn't quite fit in with the culture here and I, I struggled just to be around Mormons. I ended up really being kind of pushed away from the church left, the church, you know, fairly quickly. So by the time I got here at 10, I was already struggling with attending church. Pretty much 11 12. and then the people I could, Relate to the most were all other troubled, teens and and youth that were struggling with their home's, and a lot of them were in a drugs.

1:10:36 I ran away with them and ended up getting, you know, chased by the cops a bunch of times as being a runaway and truant kid. Not really, you know, criminally minded, but very strong willed and because I would get an arguments with my family and brothers and sisters and we fight at school, nothing felt comfortable for me, you know, during those times. And I really pushed God away. And church away. They just weren't it seemed like a lot of the people I went to church with her Hypocrites. They were angry at me because I wore a different socks or had different mannerisms or came to church late? And so I just felt highly uncomfortable around Mormons for a good while you got bullied.

1:11:28 I did. Yeah. And what's that Joni? I said, well, just say he was being bullied as what was happening. Yeah. Corey Cruise socks. You're from Germany. Yeah, I know, they were very kind about a lot of those things, and you would think, you know, This is at church. Um yeah, I didn't speak highly of the folks there. and, I basically got sent off to three foster homes. And every single one of these foster homes that ended up getting abusive physically and verbally. And so I ran away from them and I ended up you know, going into Juvenile Detention a bunch of times that was just kind of usually a holding place for a while. One of the juvenile detention places, guy named March a letter.

1:12:17 I wanted to fight me and I said, why would you want to fight me? I can do 200, push-ups, you know. And he says, no, you can't. And I said, well, okay, I'll do 200 push-ups, and you can see for yourself. So I ended up just, you know, cranking out, 200, push-ups jumped up and says, hey, you still got a problem with me? and he said no no problem and so I ended up you know just learning how to defend myself getting in you know lots of fights and just ended up having kind of a rough childhood experiencing a lot of things that really no kids should ever experience, you know, living on the streets. Seeing drugs come in and out of Salt Lake and cross the tuition and just the abuse and tyranny, that kind of goes on, you know, even in the Salt Lake area, but one of my friends, Who I was really close to it, you know, a little Alternative High School.

1:13:09 He ended up talking to me about God and religion. He grown up, you know, his family was LDS, but he didn't believe too much in the church. And he said to me, says you, do you believe in God, choruses? I'd like to. I, I don't like going to church because of the people and you know, I haven't really been reading the book of Mormon or none of that has been important to me the last little while and He, our conversation really stuck with me because it was only a few months later that he killed himself. And it just broke my heart because this was a guy who was always, so kind to everyone and was kind of the example in our high school and treating people very well.

1:13:51 His girlfriend had been abused. He was being abused by his family and he disclosed some of those things to me and he just didn't feel like he could hang in there anymore. And it really just broke my heart. Well, My family because we weren't really getting along. And I really wasn't living at home. Much of the time. Foster home's, detention ditching, School, My father had experience attending the hill Kamar pageant when I when he was in college and thought why don't we take a family trip to the hill tomorrow and and actually be in it that's cast members. He asked me one day if I would go with the family on this family vacation and I I said yes but my intention was just to find a place to live somewhere and just run away, which I ended up doing.

1:14:41 I ended up doing that in Florida and hitchhiked up to Virginia. So, on the side of the road, I I actually hid in a bush. and, I ended up seeing a cop car, pull in because I had knocked on the door of a bookstore, which happened to be terrible and Fiona Givens, place there and Lynchburg Virginia. because, you know, I knew that they lived there and had, you know, Mom, yes, relationship. Because she lived, she lived with, um, you know, Fiona live with us for a while about you, okay? So why new of some of the people that we, we had grown up with, in Germany, and this was one of them that I felt like, how at least I'll stop here and maybe, you know, get some work in this town, but I thought the impression to get out of the bushes and and ask the office or what he was doing, that was straight crazy to me that I was having this impression like go do that because it's like he was going to arrest me and I felt like I needed to get up and do that. So I was like, okay, I don't understand this, but it ended up being the next morning.

1:15:52 My parents had drove into Lynchburg and still asked me if I wanted to participate in a couple more pageant. And I said, yes, but I don't really want to associate with you guys. I don't plan on living with you guys anymore, and if I have to just go back to jail afterwards, you know, till I become 18, and that's what I'm going to do. and, I decided that this was going to be my opportunity to really explore, what the LDS church was about, read the book of Mormon. and just Really. Know for for certain whether I should continue with religion in my life or not, you know, my best friend you himself. I wasn't happy with my life.

1:16:33 I just felt a real emptiness. I didn't feel close to my family didn't feel close to anybody, I felt very alone and very heartbroken, a bit about what I'd experienced. And so I was very humble. and I was paired with the guy there to to go out and teach people about the Book of Mormon and to play different parks in the hill tomorrow. Pageant which they assigned me to be a wicked priest, which was pretty appropriate because I really wasn't going to church. And I thought, you know, that's really funny, but the pageant directors, they had prayed about this guy who was not even active, which to me is like crazy requirement.

1:17:16 Yeah, you, you're gonna have active members participate in this missionary experience. You're not going to let somebody, you know, show up as a missionary to teach the gospel who doesn't even attend church. But they felt impressed to allow me to come, which says a lot. and, My parents and several others, you know, heard about me, not, you know, being a little Troubled Youth and so they were fasting and praying for me. But I told the guy I was paired with who was just about ready to attend a mission, I said to him, I said, you know, I really struggle with just even being around more man's and but I really feel like I need to know if I needed to be part of this church.

1:17:58 And continuing with this, you having the teachings the Restoration in my life and you know, whether God is really going to intervene in my life and that kind of thing and he says, you're in the right place, we're just gonna pray and, you know, we're going to get some answers for you. well, I was there about three days and I finally got to a point where I was just frustrated because After three days of praying about 10 times a day, I felt like, well, I should know something by now. You know, what do I do here? And I said to him, look, I just got to know right now. And this was you know, about day three. everybody was kind of the end of the day and we just went and walked up on the Hill Cumorah and, Decided that was the time to pray and get an answer. and, Similar to what happened with Joseph Smith, I felt an evil presence in front of us.

1:18:52 That was just the darkest and scariest experience that I've ever had in my life. and we turned down the hill and basically, just Started running down the hill and then we got on Our Knees by the very real real quick. I feel like we're just kind of glossing over something that I'd like to explore here for just a second and real quick. How quick do you guys have to get off this? This we got another hour. Okay perfect. Um okay, so with you said you you kind of encountered something dark explained to me what that what that felt like, I mean, did you see something? Did you hear something?

1:19:33 Did you feel something? Can you explain that a little bit? Yeah. A person was standing in front of me. That was the most hateful, angry being I've ever felt in my entire life. I've never felt so such Darkness. Such heaviness. Such anger and hatred, and the feeling of I was going to die in one second. Then I've never felt that before, I've been robbed multiple times. Before this point, I was working in a restaurant, had a guy pointing a gun at me the entire time. And I just looked at him and said, nice choice of guns. You know, if I was gonna rob a place that's exactly the one I pick and I described the gun and why and I had no fear of death because I really actually wanted to die.

1:20:22 You know, previously I definitely had that feeling of my life isn't happy and this wasn't going anyway but this was the greatest Heaviest feeling of my soul was in trouble. That I have ever felt in my life by a thousand times. It's almost hard to express the depth of evil that I felt right in front of me. um, so from the bottom, my heart, I kind of ran down the hill and pray to my Father in heaven for basically Deliverance. Because in my mind I was over with right then, with this being whatever was standing in front of me. On.

1:21:15 The spirit of the Lord, just touched my heart. and I was, Instantly filled with more love than I've ever felt in my life. The spirit of the Lord. The love was just encompassing the air about. I didn't even feel like I was there almost Because I felt. Like I was forgiven of anything I've ever done. And I just prayed I even swore I I shared my thoughts from my deepest heart about how frustrated I was at the going to church and being with my family and my parents. And Henley father's told me it's going to be okay. I love you.

1:21:57 I'm here for you. I'm gonna guide you. And it gave me hope for things that I never would have believed just moments before. That kind of impression and all these thoughts that were coming to me directly from my family. Father was just so overwhelming, I I haven't really shared much about this kind of thing with just but a few people in my life, you know, just a couple handfuls of folks where I've given details to this because it's such a special experience. but, I think consolation is just in 10,000 more, so yeah. but you're talking about a guy that just wondered if God even existed just moments before, And from my whole heart, I knew.

1:22:53 Here, I knew that God existed and that he actually loved me personally that he came there to deliver this message to my heart and soul and tell me go back to your family, go back to your church. That was something I could barely imagine doing to get up in front of my ward at home. The same people that persecuted me or some of those, you know, brat kids and then my ward and just show them love and excitement. But what I realized then and what handling father showed me was, they had not had this experience that I was having, right? Then they did not understand the gospel to the degree that I was being shown and the thoughts, and the downloads that were coming into my mind were so intense, and so beautiful, and so special. To say it was the greatest experience in my life. Wow, hardly puts it in terms.

1:23:52 The. the news media was actually there there to do a story on the Hill, Cumorah Pageant The. The pageant directors when they saw me. They just says, look at Corey. He just glows. Yeah, my globe. I felt so much love and so much happiness. So much peace. And heavenly father was helping to change my heart from this troubled brat teen. That was always getting into trouble. There was angry with everyone and everything. to someone that was loving kind, and Filled with compassion for others.

1:24:32 I just wanted to run around everywhere and hug everybody. And I did, I just look at everything differently. I shared my testimony in the sacred grove. Unhugged my dad and I hadn't hugged him for years. I didn't want to see my dad and I just broke down and just I could feel so the love of God and my heart. On the understanding that my dad, really? Did love me and didn't know how to reach me. I actually Just a couple days before I, I saw one of the girls there, the pageant Mary and Jane Mall Kearney. And their dad was playing abandoned.

1:25:13 I the guy that I was burning every night, you know, and in the pageant and I, I saw her run up to her dad and and give him a great big hug. It and to wash that interaction, I literally had my jaw open. I was somewhat speechless because here I was, I was a kid. I'd been in detention probably 30 times, I had been in and out of getting in trouble with the cops and running from them. Off the time, I I could run faster so I didn't get caught but, um, To watch. Her give her dad, a big hug and say, I just love you and I pulled her aside afterwards. I said, Seems like you really like your dad. And she says, yeah, he's the greatest and I just was absolutely stunned by this to see. I pretty much had been around so many troubled youth that I forgot that you could even get along with your parents anymore and to me that was beautiful.

1:26:12 And then just, you know, A couple days later. I had that experience that changed my heart and my soul to the core and So many little details at handling. Father wanted me to know. And that, hey, you know what, I love you and I'm gonna forgive you of everything and just do your best and You know, I went on a mission and just just super enthusiastic about it, but the, the media were there. So once they heard about my story, I shared my story to the news media and a bad effect that a lot of people in Utah, that went out people in my gym, they recognized me, they knew my story at that point and Dozens of people join the church because of that dozens, you know, hundreds of people actually went to church over the Fireside.

1:27:01 And you know, when I was invited by salmon and errors to give my story and share the thoughts and the experiences that I had with the whole drug world and the gangs and the, you know, shoot outs and things like that that I'd kind of been around and part of And then the answer and got a hold of, you know, the article and the story and ran that as well. And so it gave me a great opportunity to be a missionary. What year was that? What is she was at? I might have to go look that up. That's kind of. Yeah in the 80s and the 80s 80s like yeah. Um, 80 That 90 nine somewhere in there. I'll find it for you. I have I have I I'm pretty sure I can find it online. Maybe I'll just throw a link in there just for Yeah, I have PM Magazine, so I have the PM Magazine video as well, of what they did, the story of, of the sacred grove as well, and the groundskeeper, and the Hill Cumorah Pageant on the Hill, Cumorah Pageant itself.

1:28:01 So they did a three three version versions of and the first one was all about what happened to me, kind of a miracle at Kimora where, you know, you got this album. Yeah, sorry, most troubled teen ever. I just was very unhappy with life and it just changed everything for me, where I just felt Family Father's, Love and forgiveness. And I've seen it happen. So many other times with other people where I've been able to be a part of that. And you know, one time in jail, I was teaching a guy who He? he came to me and he said, hey Corey, what do you do, if What do you do?

1:28:41 You know when, when you just you're hurting inside and you don't know what else, you know, how to handle handle this. I said my brother just cheated on me with my fiancee. and I said to him, you know, What works for me? is I grab the scriptures and I just turned to any random place and let God kind of choose, and I just start reading until I start feeling his love in my life and I feel, you know, the spirit touching my heart and helping me to handle these challenges. And he said, yeah. I I don't know what to do. He was pacing back and forth.

1:29:25 Just beside himself that the girl he was going to marry has now run off with his brother. The next day, few weeks back, I had just in Franken on the podcast where he laid out a bold plan to help people and families from all areas of the restoration that are looking for a new home in Mormonism. Mormon. Legacy is an online multi effort to be a place where folks can come and learn and have Fellowship while they find their new church home. Now, it doesn't matter. If folks, end up back in the LDS church, a fundamentalist church or an independent, we just want people to go where it is that the Lord tells him to go where they can do the most good. Now as of last Saturday a few of those meetings are now up and running.

1:30:09 So there are four meetings that are available to you on the second and fourth Saturday of every month at 3 p.m. Mountain Standard Time. A sacrament meeting is available on Monday nights at 7 p.m. mountain standard time is a men's meeting on Thursday night at 6 p.m. mountain standard time, a gospel, fundamentals classes available then on the first and Tuesday of every month at 7 p.m. mountain standard time, starting in October, a women's meeting will be held. Now it doesn't matter if you are a member of the LDS church, a fundamentalist a person from other restoration branches and investigator or a Nevermore. These meetings are available to all. Now it doesn't even matter where you live East Coast West Coast, Midwest Canada, Mexico Europe you name it you have access to all these meetings all you need to do is to go to Mormon legacy.org.

1:31:05 Scroll to the bottom of the landing page and just click the link of the meeting you want to join. That's it. So whether you want a soft place to land while you look for your new church home, You're curious about early Mormon teachings, or you just really want to be part of something and they're already member of a church and want to stay there but want more opportunities to serve. This could be the place for you. Again, you can access all those meetings and reach out to anybody with the ministry by going to Mormon legacy.org or by clicking the link in this episode shown notes. Thank you. first thing he did was, you know, running up to me as soon as he could find me and he says Corey, I spent all night reading scriptures, I read through psalms and it just touched my heart and I I just want to run around and hug everybody.

1:31:56 I've never felt like this. And that was the same thing with me. I was literally pinching and smacking myself the next day. It's like I didn't feel like I this was so unreal to me that I would get an answer like this after all this time. He says to me, hey Corey. You're a minister, right? You could you could baptize me and I says, yeah, I could baptize you and and He says, well, we'll baptize me and I says well. if you can get some of your friends to keep that guard busy over there, we can fill up the garbage can And then I said to him well in your case because you've been so rotten, I'm gonna have to hold you down a little longer. But we can do this for you.

1:32:39 And he literally went off. He was on his way. I had to call him back and say, no, no! This isn't how it works. You know, you you you're you're committed to the gospel and we'll baptize you but not right here, not right now, there's more to this but Heavenly Father appreciates where you're at and your commitment to him and just, It was such a beautiful thing. He had several friends come up to me and say you know this guy was a gangster he was out robbing people all the time to see this change. Come over him. It's so wonderful that you really helped him to read the scriptures and I said, you know I just Emily father puts us in those places where we can be little missionaries to others and I was so grateful to be part of that in his life. Those are some of the greatest experiences ever for me actually to look back at those moments and I was part of that for him and other people were part of that for me and I'm so grateful to them for their contribution in my life. And you know, that's really why we're on this podcast here is because we want other people to have this experience. We want people to understand the The truth of the restoration and have a place to go.

1:33:46 Where They have answers to what Joseph Smith taught to what Brigham Young taught, what the Savior taught. which is why we're kind of the phases of of baking 30 Mercantile website that we've helped you build so that we can all gather together as as members of the church or fundamentalists or other. And we're gonna get there in a minute, but I do want to just kind of finish the story out here. so, when you I feel like a big part of your story is the struggles you've had with covid and was that something you'd be comfortable to share here?

1:34:30 Yeah. Yeah, so so let's go into that. I feel like your story that you just shared in the journeys were pretty well caught up, right? We know how you guys meet you get married. Yeah. Let's talk about what it's like when you guys get married for a little while, let's go through that and then my thoughts are. I think so we can give the rest of this Justice. What we'll do is we'll have you come back on and then we'll go into The products right? The 1830 Mercantile, the cocoa powder, all that other stuff. Are you guys good with that? Yeah, yeah, because this is going good and I don't want to, I don't want to rush this so I feel like we take some time.

1:35:13 Here we'll be. We'll be well suited if you guys are down for that. Absolutely Okay, all right. So, you guys get married, you're you're off and running, right? Joni smiling, Corey smiling looks like things are gonna go. Well, Tell us a little bit about how long have you guys been married now. Um, six years going on seven? Okay? All right. So, tell me about that. Six years of marriage. What's that been like well, I feel like before we can get to covid, We had Trevor. So yes, had a honeymoon baby and we were doing it all natural. Everything was great. five weeks early, my water breaks and I called my Midwife and she says, well, it's too early, I was still working.

1:36:03 Thankfully, so we had insurance to cover everything. She said, well, you can't have it at home. It's too early. So you'll have to go into the hospital. So we were, we went to about anything and Just like I was early, you know. So it's just like, okay and actually went back to sleep because I was like, well, I'm not having any contractions. And I slept for eight hours, I played dumb at the hospital, the doctors, like, how long ago did your water break my first one that anyway. Yes, that's funny. That's the same. Look, I get from my doctor when he says, how many cheeseburgers did you?

1:36:44 So we go in and and I mean, I feel fine because I'm not having a lot of contractions, they're very mild, they get me processed, and they start to induce and they say His Waters dropping or his the baby's heart is. Dropping every time you have a contraction, we've got to stop this. and we're like okay you know and I'm still hoping I can have it natural but they said he'd probably need to see section and anyway the doctor comes in and it this is like hours it's like 4 p.m. by the time.

1:37:26 He was a really good doctor so it's a good experience to be able to walk in and have a good doctor, but he puts his hand on my belly and says this baby is like, three or four pounds and I'm like, you're crazy, he's really, but he's not that early, you know, And everything's pretty fine. It's a it's really fast. It's my first one so I don't know what to expect. It's a C-section now they you know, Russia's in, he's a great doctor. It's like a 15 15 minutes, he did it. He did it in like 15 minutes. Cut me open take the baby up so up but you know looking back it's like he they held the baby up but they rushed him out, you know?

1:38:08 So it's like what's going on? and so, Next thing I know a doctor comes in you know and says your son has all the markings of try. So many teen Edwards syndrome, he's got clubbed feet, he's probably got mental issues. He's got Anyway, he's got the heart. Heart challenge is Typeface. Yeah. You know, he starts listing the textbook definition, what? Trevor didn't even fit all that. So it was interesting that he listed things that Trevor didn't seem to have.

1:38:48 But anyway, so He asked, do you want to take him off life support and I mean, Corey and shock and say just give him. Yeah. Like wow, that you would even ask that with our child. You know, I just, I was horrified by that even comment. It's not. Of course, you're gonna help our little child. So, he was three pounds. Yeah, like they didn't give you guys options first. Like, hey, maybe we can do this. Maybe we can do that. It's just like, it was, it was that abrupt? I had no idea what the diagnosis. Yeah, man. I wasn't sure. You know, like, he wanted to explain the disease first, like, give me some background, I mean, he listed symptoms, you know, and he was, he was really quiet trying to be respectful. So I'm pretty sure this is just normal protocol. This is what we're supposed to do and, and say, you know, so for all I needed this, this child was deformed and didn't have a chance at life, but I just said, you know, give him whatever chance he's got and, you know, was kind of, you know, really scary to try and understand well, what's Even what's he gonna look, like, based off of fees, you saying he's got these deformities and, you know, mentally handicapped. So, you know, it's, I have my phone, I Google it, and I call my family, and, and my sister's like, I know, somebody whose daughter had that.

1:40:08 And she's the sage, and that, and, you know, and you And Corey gets to go see Trevor first. So do you want to? Yeah. He was supposed to, you know, have all these deformities I just went right into them and he was underneath the glass and it kind of put my little hands in there and um, he was so tiny. I've never really seen a little baby smaller than him at you know, three pounds and he kind of went under, you know, into the two-pound range just as he lost a little bit of weight. but he, The first thing he did was cry out to me. As soon as I saw him that really was amazing because it's like he went through the veil a little bit and recognize that I was there and that was like a noise that he made right? Then that I never heard him to make ever again did the same when I came and never heard that sound again. It was really really interesting and touching. Yeah we had a brief moment with them before he was lost, Life, Flight and children.

1:41:14 It's very children and Salt Lake because we were up in Ogden and they didn't have the facilities for his diagnosis. So, but I went there in the next, you know, day to give him a blessing and just to be there with him and let him know that we loved him. And Just to hold his hand and feel of the spirit. And I could just feel wonderful spirit around him, very strong and unusual. I've been around lots of little babies and he just has this spirit, that brought something To us and into my heart and my home. And to our home, where With his disability is just felt like a little angel was with us.

1:41:55 Literally the, the spirit of the Lord was in our home at such a strong level that his presence. very, very touching and I feel like it just healed my heart and my soul just to be around this cute little Boy, that's what's so frustrating. When you realize the protocol is to ask, if you want your baby taking off life support, before you get the chance to meet him is because those diagnosis say it's a spectrum, you know, You don't know which deformities each child's gonna have, you don't know which but what it's like down syndrome is what it is. It's you have a one in 7000 chance that you'll He'll have it as a woman, but obviously you're more high-risk when you're a little older and we were, I was yeah, of course. And that age the doctors in their kind of assured us that this isn't really to do with your DNA, really have to do with the baby multiplying and their cell dividing and that it's just but something that happens on the very rare that the child just does not develop on their own, even with the DNA, they have.

1:43:06 Just so you take 18th strand. So instead of the 21st, which is Down syndrome and down syndrome, we've now shown that these children, they have a high, you know, High chances of survival and even living normal lives. Yeah, a lot of? Yeah, once again, you know, it's there on a spectrum as well as to, how how it expresses genetically with Edward syndrome. He had a 10% chance especially boys for some reason. It's less of the challenge, there's female that do. survive and I think the oldest lived to be maybe 21, but Yeah, he had a 10% chance that he'd make it past that first week and then a 10% chance that he'd make it to his first year. It was, it was still pretty minimal and they just didn't really have answers for us and that was I guess that the challenging thing is, you know, we're taking to the internet and we're asking questions of the geneticists and just some of the top people trying to get some answers for, you know, what can we expect with our little boy?

1:44:04 And I just thought to myself, you know, it's like, well, we believe in healings, you know, I guess we're just gonna fast and pray and do whatever we can do. And You know, ultimately, you know, our little boy was with us, you know, 112 days. And then he joked and that was just the hardest thing in the world to not have his wonderful little spirit in our home. I gotta say, I was just really heartbroken. He just brought something into her home. It's like people say, oh, you have a child that has disabilities. Oh, he's going to be so hard. Yeah, it was hard. It was hard for Joni to get up and feed him. You know, every few hours and it was really hard hard for me as well.

1:44:45 I was very just spending time with him as much as we were spinning. It was, it was a lot of work for both of us. I can't imagine just one parent, taking care of, you know, the special needs child because I was fairly exhausted many times because I wasn't getting as much sleep and joining was taking the brunt of a. So But to think that, you know, this wasn't worth it. The greatest blessing ever to have this wonderful Sweet Child in our home. And the spirit that he brought I'm grateful for that, I'm grateful. That he's part of our family. I feel blessed that I was able to serve him and the way that I did, I feel like it was one of the greatest things I've ever done.

1:45:31 Is to be a parent that was all in whatever I could do to help my little boy and until love and support him with his Challenge and his desire to be on this Earth. And did you just be part of our family for the little time that he was? I Very grateful for that. I yes, go ahead. Sorry. Joni, go ahead. All right. Yeah. I just came here to love us. He just had needed. And and just stayed a few days to love us. And that's the only thing I can say he had, he had heart defect. So, I mean, but if you looked at him and and saw him, we were able to take him home actually, which was really precious because normally, you know, if you have a three-pound baby, they're going to keep you in the hospital forever till they weigh at least 5 or 6 pounds, yes they're like well, send them home on hospice.

1:46:25 They send them home on hospice about 26 days later they can share the screen. Um, yeah. Um, share the screen here for a moment. You should have permission still Corey. Okay, Okay click it on your. Oh I do click it. Okay. No. Yeah, but this down here. Right those days at home were so precious that we gotta just take him home and loved them. He was on oxygen and he was too fed, but otherwise he was almost Almost a normal baby, he had heart. Defects. So he was not gonna outlive us no way. And he had his epiglottis was at fully formed, which is do you see the thing?

1:47:09 It's all do it. There is yeah. So he but here's just A short little video clip. Just to kind of show is is beautiful little spirit. I feel like that's something that everyone ought to see because, you know, even with the greatest of challenges, you could feel something special just by watching this for a moment. It's not sharing on my end guys. Okay, here it is. There it is.

1:47:58 Trevor. Hey Trevor. We love you. Yeah, we do. And I just remember, you can't stop share. So you just exit out of it and I'll stop sharing. Here you go. What were you saying? Joni you remember what? Well, one day, I was just holding him, tired exhausted, you know, from public here taking duties, and doctors visits.

1:48:38 And Scrolling my phone and I looked down at him and there's just so much love emanating from his eyes. He was definitely a different caliber a Celestial being, you know, there just You know, it was really really sweet. So Unfortunately, he's our only ones so far and we're still here and then open that will get the opportunity to have more. Yeah, we've got impressions for two other little babies and you know, Megan and Nathan. We've already come up with names for them and feel that you know, those are the two that Emily father will give us. The only challenges I've had covid the last little bit, and had some massive struggles with that, so I guess we can get into that story.

1:49:23 But before we get into that, if again, if it's not too personal, you can always tell me to shut my pie hole. If it is, um What in those moments, right? Knowing that this, this child who's He's got your whole Hearts now. He's gonna pass and he does. What does that do with your relationship to God in those moments? Yeah. It's very different. Once you go through the grieving experience, you start to realize all the things that people say that they shouldn't say well at least you'll have them in heaven you know. It's like well I want them now, you know, ya know, aren't you glad you know that families already Eternal? Well not really at this moment.

1:50:14 It doesn't help the fact that I still miss him right now. and so you just really realize what the grieving process is like and it teaches you to Be more careful what you say and just more aware. And when empathy for others. But with God, I feel like the first little bit, there was so much help Heaven wise there was so much help. Family wise that usually it doesn't hit you until a little bit later and for me, 2020 was really hard. So, Trevor, you know, we got married in 2018.

1:50:55 We had Trevor in 2019, and he passed in 2019 as well. And then, and then covid here and that, you know, messed with our finances, the world felt very dark for a little bit. I do feel like I kind of struggled with my relationship with Heavenly Father. During that time just of like Not being able to kind of see the way out in some some sort of depression and things like that. But the World did get better. So, I mean, I don't know if I have anything wise to say about that. I feel like our relationship, thankfully, it helped solidify our relationship, and I know a lot of times, apparently losing a child is, is A huge part of divorce. Divorce.

1:51:50 And I, because of her foundation and our belief in God. It didn't Rock her marriage in the way that most people did. And also, I've seen other women, you know, greeting, were they spend years where they just can't get out of bed? And thankfully, for me, it wasn't like that. I'm not naturally prone to be a depressed person. I feel like covid was hard on. A lot of people in the world felt very dark and all of that compounded with losing Trevor, just Felt. but it did take a take a little bit more like, trust in faith and still even now I mean we've had a miscarriage too and it's just like uh, that's it's just, it's hard to realize that You have to have faith that God and Heavenly, heavenly father wants. What's best for you?

1:52:44 Even when when these things happen and sometimes it makes the the challenges just a little harder when you I feel like it's shaped me in ways that I didn't want to be shaped like I would rather be more of an easygoing parent. That's not worried about a child hurting themselves but very much. Now I feel like I have a mother's heart that is going to be very overprotective. Like you can't talk on me know, right before we show rightfully so I want to ask the same question to you, but first, I want to address something that Joni said here. and that was, People say things. Well intended but it doesn't hit well, right? It doesn't land.

1:53:37 Well yeah. and, In those times. I I remember I had I worked. I worked with a guy when I was, when I was still in the church. Good dude, totally good, dude. And he meant completely well but that dude had no ability to read a room like none. Right. And so he would come in being trying to be perfectly, you know, trying to do his best. Right? And there were times where I was like, man, I should just give this dude, a sandwich, right? As we walk in. He'll be busy eating before. He throws. Throws me down a route, you know, throws me under the bus. But I think you bring up a great Point here, Johnny. And and that is You got to be cognizant of what you say, right.

1:54:24 And there certainly is a time to talk about those things, but that moment that's not one of them, right? And I I go back to when, when Alma's baptizing at the Waters of Mormon, right? What is he say? He says mourn with those that mourn. And sometimes I think we, as people have a misconception of what that is And you know to Bear one another's burdens. I think that goes along with it. We have a misconception of what that is. I think as people and and look, dudes are the worst at this, right? Because we're like okay there's a problem. We gotta go fix it, right? Give me the duct tape. Give me the wrench. The WD-40 I'll get this thing back up and running. Sometimes there's not much.

1:55:09 And so what I think, I really think that that teaching, that Alma's given to everybody as they're at the water is a Mormon is that Sometimes you just sit with people in their grief and that's as good as it's going to get in that moment and that is the best thing you can do. It said nothing about well yeah, just just say inspirational words and and that'll help sometimes we just got to be in that place with other people where you're like, you know what, you're right this sucks and yeah I'm you know, I don't have any words try to explain to you why Or anything else. But I think that's so important.

1:55:51 I think you made an excellent point there, Joni in that. Because again, and guys are the worst at it. We want to fix everything and sometimes you can't fix it. And sometimes if you're going to do the Christ like thing, you just got to go sit in the environment that sucks with with your brothers and sisters. So, Corey, I want to get your same question. You, how did this affect your relationship with God during this? This part of it. I felt just. So, comforted by my little boy, being with us. And I felt like he was defying the odds and that goodness, he was going to be with us for a while. And you know, they told us that, you know his first week probably not going to make it even the first day and they don't expect anything kind of a attitude. And and I could just see that, you know, he was started to do well, in fact, when he, you know passed, he looked like he was going to get off oxygen and it looks like, you know, he could probably, you know, start eating at some point. It just he did seem like he was getting better and I was so grateful for that.

1:56:54 But the thing that was the hardest. for me, was his little Spirit brought such As a wonderful positive spirit of love into our home that I just adored being around him and his last day, I I just had him, right? Well, I was working on the computer so I'm just in there typing away and I had him, you know, laying right up against me and he was kind of stroking, a little hairs on my arm and you wouldn't expect to, you know, be able to do that. But I walked in and he could see his little hand just like almost He knew he knew he was comfortable. It was, it was definitely a little Comfort type moment that it was not normal for a little three, three month old.

1:57:36 And there were times that he would look up at and I just felt a connection with him that was just so beautiful. And like, his little Spirit was bigger than this and that I felt the love of God. So much in my life that I felt like I was Definitely. The level of comfort that I fell. And the level of the spirit that was that I was experiencing by being his little father and just having him in our home was extra, extra special, it's just the kind of thing. You just don't ever forget. It's the kind of thing that just changes your heart and soul you like I would never look at someone who's disabled or You know. Dealing with challenges the same way, just some are the greatest spirits that we have on this Earth. And you was definitely one of them to me and I I felt like heavenly father, had him here, just longer especially to comfort me and to help me feel God's love more. So I feel like more than anything that is the message that of him sticking around and I feel like, I wasn't angry at God over it, but I was I had a sense of loss that I was hard to articulate.

1:58:50 My heart was so wounded and so sensitive to his loss. Like I never would have imagined, I could feel my heartstrings pulled more. I would not have imagined the sense of loss that I felt even knowing that he was struggling with health challenges and then everyone said he wasn't going to be around. I still didn't prepare me for the loss that I fell inside and out. The depth. of feelings that I would go through with him not being around and it just makes me I thought about him pretty much every day since like he's kind of the the standard of families are forever that we are going to be together and I just look forward to that day where I give him the biggest hug ever.

1:59:38 and that I live my life where I'm worthy to be with him, and that I'm the kind of parent and husband and and, person that I'm like my Father in heaven, where my father in Heaven's grateful to be around me and then I I'm not that kind of person that I've developed that kind of character to be in his presence and Just to feel that. Yeah, a very strong learning experience. You know, you think of Abraham and what are the things that will tug, your heartstrings the most in life? Well, senior cute little child go, that's one of the hardest. Senior best friends.

2:00:20 Go. Not understanding the gospel and feeling evil presences and then feeling the love of God in your heart and having all of those roller coaster experiences. Very intense on something. I'm hopeful that everyone around me has hope. Hopefully everyone has an experience of having more of heavenly father spirit in their life and a greater understanding of their value and their goodness because every person on this Earth is a child of our Heavenly Father which makes Everyone listening to this profoundly beautiful and profoundly important and profoundly wonderful, especially in our character, whatever we are today. That doesn't matter the stupidest things. We could possibly do.

2:01:07 Can all be forgiven, the The love of our savior and his atoning sacrifice for us. Can absolutely fix anything that we've done and bring us. Bring our character back where we are comfortable in his presence. If we just keep working at it, if we just keep at it and just Try to develop that love in our heart. The kind of love that I have for my little boy. The kind of love I have for Joanie and if you can just feel that for anyone see if you can share that love with your neighbor more. So anyone around you expand that you know to your neighbor as much as you can and you know, ask for that gift to be giving you because the gift of Charity is a gift and you have to ask for it it won't just come but he'll give it to every one of us.

2:01:56 And at that point then we become like our father and have them because we have that That charity within us, feeling our heart and we feel like serving other people. We feel like lifting them. We we never want to hurt another person but we're gonna probably do it because we're dominant. We it's easy for us to oh, To say they're wrong thing. Kind of like you know where these people are saying to Joni. It's like well you can always have another kid or you know, he's gonna be okay in the next slide. You know, he's going to be with you and it's like you feel like nearly in tears because you just miss him so bad and not just does not does nothing to Take away that hurt that you feel in that moment. And there's things, you know, some of us will lose our jobs and we feel like it's the end.

2:02:41 We don't feel like we can, we can make it, you know, we have no prospects, you know, Joni was single a long time. And um, look at all these guys out here, this doesn't look good. And then for me, too, I believe in the Constitution, I believe in Freedom, in a different level. I don't like where our countries going and yet much of our society is embracing principles and ideas that are against things, I believe in at my core. And so how would I find a girl who fits those kind of values and Joni is that kind of person and I've met so many, you know, in the LDS church, some some of the girls I dated at BYU and and I actually dated some fundamentalists on girls and they have been some of the most wholesome good sweet spirited women I've ever met. And so it's like, oh, these are the cream of the crop. These are the best Of the best of our society. Let me ask this question here and I think this will wrap everything up, before we go into covid here, a little bit. when you're in the middle of that, anyone who's been touched by Death, as, as Joanie was alluding to it's kind of like being in the middle of a fight or in the middle of a struggle, right?

2:04:03 You're not thinking about reviewing the game film so to speak in that moment, right? Because you are in it at what point does? Do those gospel promises start to come to the Forefront of your mind again, right? Because as Joan, as you were saying Joni and Corey, you're in the middle of it, right? And so you don't want to hear about how families can be together. Because you want your kids right now, right? So at what point do those do? Those promises begin to come forward again. Our Bishop at Trevor's funeral talked about. How Joseph Smith taught that a child who dies? Before the age of eight automatically becomes goes into the Celestial Kingdom, but and elaborating on that, too. He said that.

2:05:00 And when you're a baby's Spirit leaves their bodies, they are an adult. And they are doing important work and then during the Millennium, you'll hold your baby again and you'll get to raise them. So knowing that and believing that with my whole heart was really what helped me and segwaying into Corey getting sick and almost dying with covid, too was You know, what's it's hard on birthdays and things like that. You think your heart? Just breaks because you're like, oh I would have he'd be six, man, six, he'd be turning before. What would he be like, you know, about that kind of a thing picture and it breaks her heart and, you know, you experience the loss again and again every anniversary because you're You're hearing for what might have been. But the the thing that the gospel gives us to me, is this idea that The Trevor that is alive right now, is an adult and a celestials being.

2:06:05 And he's An angel. He's part of my family still and I mean, I won't go into all the details as we get into covid. Corey's covid story. But Very much he was there to help. Yeah, we've got a couple stories there about that. Just make a lot of sense, as far as him kind of intervening and comforting me. That was one of my prayers, and I would pray. You know, people think well, that I know there's some debates online about, well, you shouldn't pray to heavenly mother, you shouldn't pray this or, you know, we don't worship our ancestors, so we don't pray to him. But I've, I've had experiences where I say, Trevor, I need this Trevor. Take care of Corey for me because he was in the ICU back when I couldn't go, they wouldn't let me in, you know. So it was very much and I don't think there's anything wrong with that personally.

2:07:01 It's like you know what, your prayers are between you and God but no Trevor's very real to me and he's real not just as a baby or a six year old that. I don't get a hold right now but in the future but he's an adult and a guardian angel that I feel very close sometimes and I know he was there with Corey when I asked him to beat their You know, I I want to say this before we move on. Um, Mormonism is not like secular Christianity. And I don't say that to be little, secular Christians. That's not why I'm saying this.

2:07:43 But our theology is a bit different, right? And certainly Our prayers should always go through God, however. If Joseph. If Joseph is correct in what he says about families being together forever and that it's so important that we need to. Do our Temple work so that we can be sealed back together. The Lord makes it clear so important that if it's not done, when he comes back, what happens to the world utterly wasted? So, I don't think it's out of the realm of, of certainty, in my opinion.

2:08:25 That this idea of talking to you to your family on the other side. Yeah, is out of step with Orthodox Mormonism, right? It doesn't hold weight at all, you know? Kind of go along with what you said there. I remember. My dad when when he met my mom, when I was born. Um he was a diesel mechanic. So the house always smelled like diesel, right? And I I can't think anyone who hasn't ever smelt diesel, but if you haven't, it smells different than gasoline. It's a different smell. And my dad had lost a child in a previous marriage and from SIDS and so messed with him to the day he died, he'd walk into my room. Gosh to the day, he went to the hospital and just at night, he just put his hand either on my back or he put his finger under my nose to see if I was breathing, right? And so that diesel smell a on, his hands was always present. and I remember one night shortly after we had Shouldn't say shortly.

2:09:35 It was probably three or four months. Before after we had my oldest boy. and um, We we hadn't had an old crib, right? Like an old antique crib and the slacks Between the Bars were a little wider. Than normal. It was handmade. It was about two 2:30 in the morning and I remember, I started to smell diesel. I mean, hundred strong diesel. And I was like, what and the, you know, my first thought is someone dowsing in my house like it was at, and it was summer. So like I was like, if someone screwing around out there, right? Like it was that pungent?

2:10:20 And I followed the smell and it went down to my son's room. and he'd wedged his head in between there, those slats and then had managed to twist himself in a real weird position and had he moved just another fraction of an inch one way or another. Because the blanket had all wrapped and wrapped itself around him. He was gonna, he was gonna suffocate and I remember I went back there and told, you know, got him repositioned and everything. Actually I took him out and had him sleep in his bassinet and next to me that night and it's like, well, I'll work on that crib in the morning, but the that Veil is so thin, so thin.

2:11:00 And I think sometimes we think of it way more as a door, or a wall as a post to a thin wispy fail. And so I don't think that's out of the, like I said, out of the pail of Orthodoxy by any stretch of the imagination. So, All right, Corey. Let's uh, yeah, let's let's move along here. So in 2020. Now you guys go through all of this heartbreaking stuff with, with Trevor your son. Yes. And then you like, how long was it between that and the time you contracted covid? Core Right about a year or something, but it was not, I got sick, November 5th, 2021.

2:11:45 So it was the end of like the pandemic that he got really sick. So it was a year into covid and he was hospitalized a few weeks later. Well the the thing was is like kovid. You know, for me everybody was talking about hits the end of the world. Be very careful. You know mask up and this is just super contagious and in my mind look I've only been sick a few times in my life. I you know have been used to training for decades, you know, 15 to 30 hours a week. I just really was fairly immune to feeling like Josh, you know, a few times, you know, in a decade I might get sniffles for a day or two.

2:12:26 And I generally not be like, I would take a day off or sit, you know, on a couch and watch movies or something. I just is not something that was part of my My life at all. And most people that know me. They've never seen me ever have a down day and then I guess the idea of me ever getting sick with covid. Just seemed so remote and, and not something that I could ever get butt. One of our close friends here and ended up getting sick with covid here in Pima. But we actually moved to Arizona from Salt Lake because the shutdowns had created so much Insanity. When we went shopping, our gym was closed and people at church. They had shut down church and just we felt very uncomfortable with that environment and felt like just going with Joni's family, in a small town, where people had some semblance of sanity and anyway, Joni's dear neighbors, asked for a blessing and I just thought, well, of course, you know, I'm going to go over and give them these guys, a blessing and ended ended up that they're very runny eyes.

2:13:38 She could barely move. She didn't even want to move on the couch. So that's my best friend's mom. So this is like my second mom growing up. Yeah. Very involved in her life. In fact we had our our wedding reception and their home and they were on a mission so they were still wanted us to have that at their home. A very special people. And I just felt impressed to give her husband a blessing that said he would be healed and in a couple days and I just got that strong impression. That's just what I said to him. I said, you know, God is going to show you his his love and his power and the next couple days and then she'll be all right. and I guess, He came home and I said, well, what about Joanne, what? What did my my dad bless her.

2:14:26 So, what my dad, what did my dad say in her blessing? And was like I don't know and I just had that sinking feeling. Yeah, I didn't. I was curious as to why he didn't kind of command her to be healed because I felt a really strong impression that he was gonna be just fine. And that's kind of what I said. So and it just really broke my heart to hear you know in the hospital she didn't actually tell me that she had passed while I was in the hospital, I just was like, wow I was in tears we ended up watching the funeral while I was there and in the hospital bed you know online And right before the funeral because I wasn't sure he would be able to handle it. So that was important, it's very hard, it's very hard physically what I was dealing with.

2:15:10 So yeah, I'm glad she did and actually it was that where you can attracted covid from Corey? Well, well my family got sick and you know Corey had kind of that bravado of. Well, I'm not gonna get sick and I remember feeling kind of like a feeling in my heart like my heart was pierced like this Blackness and it wasn't the same as like a feeling of like when the Holy Ghost tells you not to do something, it was not that it was not that but I had a premonition. Like, he's not not that I could vocalize like I didn't know he was gonna get sick, but that something really evil was happening in the world. Basically, kind of a feeling, you know, just just appearing to my heart but you know, from our perspective of Faith but never withhold him, going to give you know, someone who I love dearly a blessing.

2:16:06 So technically, my family was sick prior to that. And so I mean we had viral load, probably from multiple. People but it was right when the Delta wave hit and was really strong and they were very very sick. By the time they asked for that priests to blessing. Like they should have been hospitalized sooner. Yeah, they look terrible. It was actually a little scary. I don't think I've ever seen somebody. I've given a blessing to even in the hospital. The looked worse than those two. They look bad. Their eyes were just running and could barely move and just sweating and just fever just very weak.

2:16:47 Can I ask a question here? Kind of a personal question. You don't have to answer if you don't want to, but you regret that now, Giving away. Absolutely not. I I literally good man. I feel like I'm here on this Earth, man. Servant and and bless everybody as best I can. And and I feel grateful that I was able to give him the blessing and have the priesthood to to be that guy. I feel like I was a little frustrated to hear that church leadership kind of came out sometime ago and said you know we discourage you giving blessings. I'm like well don't we have faith, you know, don't we have the priesthood, don't we, you know, believe in God and yeah, you know, it is this strange thing for me to have gotten covid because, you know, I've all my family and friends, they're kind of speechless because, okay, I'm the guy that didn't eat sugar growing up.

2:17:40 I was a competitive gymnastics school, high level discipline, no junk food, no processed foods and training, you know, pretty much an hour day or more. And then I And just taken down like, nobody's business. I, yeah, we'll get right into. What what that was like. For me. Covid is hold on one second. I just want to make sure I got the story straight here. So Joanie you caught it first, right? Yeah. How was it for you? so, and that was part of Like looking back a mistake I made is I assumed he was experiencing the same thing. I was experiencing when he was it it was one of the worst sicknesses.

2:18:22 I've had it never went into my lungs, though. It was all upper respiratory. The worst achy fever I've ever had. And I was weak for like months after it and I lost clumps of hair like so, I mean, I had long term covid effects, but I was not ever to the point of my deathbed Gotcha, gotcha. Okay so Corey, what's the first symptom? You started noticing Um, started to feel kind of a little bit of a runny runny nose, like, you know, I've got stuff. I got a blow, my nose, a bit more. I'm just a little bit less energy. and, I guess in my mind not that big a deal.

2:19:04 I'm gonna be good because for me I just really bounced back from anything and so And this was the first time I wasn't gonna bounce back from something like this. And the first, the first few days we heard about taking Ivermectin and hydrochloro and just some of the things that were being recommended online, like quickly, get that in you and we talked to a doctor naturopath, and we learned later from another doctor who will introduce better at a different part of the story, but that covid actually has three phases. And Ivermectin, only works in the first phase, it's the viral replication that it's that it helps when that is stops and that phase Sometimes happens before you're even sick. So that's why you have, you know, people who swear by Ivermectin and instead of that maybe aren't as strong and Ivermectin.

2:20:00 So, Ivermectin. Absolutely is a good, a good thing for covid, but you have to take it at the right time, and that's what we learned with with Corey. It was, we got him Ivermectin, but it was too late. By the time, the prescription was filled for it to have been helpful. You have to have a day or nine in this case. And there are so many things that we just really did not understand very well. And obviously, you know, they shut down kind of the conversation on line about this, which is, you know, the most heartbreaking thing because there were answers and this didn't have to happen where, you know, millions of people didn't have to die over this. They were ways to stop this virus from replicating and affecting so many people. Pretty much instantaneously. yeah, and again, more of the story on what happened and what, What kind of brought me back to life again? You know, it's nuts, right?

2:20:50 Because I remember When covid happened really hard, my my oldest son lost his job. And he was still Just kind of in school, make trying to make ends meet that sort of thing. So we had a downstairs, finish debate apartment in our basement, we just told him and his wife and his daughter to come live with us and I'm While there they got covid. and, I'm gonna be careful here because I got need to be real careful. I know a guy. Who got his hands on some Ivermectin, right? And it was early, it was like the first two days and so dude, it was the strange like I look everyone. I've made it very clear here on the podcast. I grew up rough, right.

2:21:36 But all sudden I felt like I was back in my teenage days trying to buy some weed, right? Because I'm going behind the back alley to get Ivermectin, right? Like, I remember, yeah, cuz cuz doctors just wouldn't prescribe it, right? No, it's like it didn't matter how much trouble for us. Yeah, it didn't matter how much documentation you had, how much study you had like, it was, it was the safest protocol for covid that there was right. This is a drug that has been on the market for decades in the guy who created it won the Nobel, Peace Prize for curing river blindness with it. Um, you can't really OD on it, right? Like it was the safest medication that you could take four covid and was effective.

2:22:22 And they just shut It down. They just said, you're not getting that. Um you know I I had another buddy that we had to send out of the United States to go get monoclonal antibodies right to get hooked up to a an IV to get the drip again, fixed him right up fixed him right up, right? But that time was so full of bull crap, like the amount of it was the first time that I can remember where Where I was like, okay, you gotta go Rogue. You can't trust your medical professional at this point, right? Like they're, they're so co-opted and I, I get it right because I talked to my doctor about it who's a very rational guy and he said, the problem is, is that if we prescribe Ivermectin or, um, monoclonal antibodies, and someone still dies whether that caused it or not, we're on the hook because we went out of scope Of of treatments and so like they were facing criminal. Yeah, cross keychain.

2:23:28 If they, if they even prescribed it and so it was it was just not so you sorry about that. That was kind of a side tangent. But Corey, you said you started to get, get kind of a running nose and that sort of thing. Yeah, just seemed like I was had the flu and just started to feel pretty effective at where, you know, I'm just gonna have to, you know, Watch some Netflix's kind of the worst, you know. The worst thing that I could imagine doing pretty much is not being very productive for several days in a row. And for me, I just, wow, this is really strong stuff this covid and, um, didn't not did not think I was in trouble until I woke up early in the morning.

2:24:12 I woke up. Between 1:00 and 3. In the morning, my lungs went from. I feel bad to I can't breathe anymore. and I looked at my little, Oxygen numbers because I got one of those little oximeters from my finger. and it said 60 to Oh, geez, I was reading that looking at it. Like this thing's look, I think it's broken. So I took it off. I put it on again. Sure enough. You know, I'm 60 and and I texted somebody who was in the heart in the grid group, you know, David Pine and some of those guys. And I texted I said I'm getting a reading of 60, something on my oximeter, and someone in the group says, you call the ambulance right now.

2:25:04 I said really, I was not thinking straight and so that's what I did, but I'm glad they texted. Alright. Alright, then well, yeah, yeah, no, I was totally out of it at that point. Yeah, you was he was he was this whole time. Corey was like this weird Lucid child. Like From that moment on. So give a little backstory. He's already on oxygen out so we are already. We had ammonia. You know, level called it. We already are. We're working with our natural path doctor. We've got some prescriptions. He's doing, you know, some few deaths and I so that I'm kind of breathing, you know, lots of stuff to kind of open my lungs.

2:25:48 He's at Leaders. And that's the max you can have at home oxygen and latest pep going up and up and up and and he might have been awake in texting people but he wasn't awake enough to wake me up. I woke up and I was the one making the decision to call them. You I was definitely gone at that point. I am and I look over at Corey and and check his oxygen level. So I'm like, Corey, we can't even like, get you to the car and to drive you to the hospital. Yeah, I wouldn't have made it that I would have been dead within just a couple minutes of not having a oxygen. In me. I was, I was really in trouble and yeah, I'm yeah, that's pretty sure. He got up and shaved, and probably would have showered if I, you know, like that before getting admitted to the hospital. Yeah, I was like, what are you doing? He, I cannot identify with this.

2:26:40 All right, I can't believe I'm gonna tell this story on air, but Full disclosure. My dad died as an early, as a young man, still, right? He was 47. When he passed from heart disease. And, um, this was back when I lived in Idaho. and, I was at the gym and I benched felt really good. Hit a PR right. Jump on the treadmill, go to work, then all the sudden this pain hits my chest, Right. And it's the kind of pain that I can like see stars and take your breath away, kind of pain. and I'm like, Oh right.

2:27:20 Like with that kind of family history. My first thoughts. Oh I'm like Swallow the pain, keep going, right? Like the just the twinge, just swallow, the paint and keep going, and it hit a second time and a third time in a fourth time, and they got closer together. Those episodes, I'm like, all right, I gotta go, right? So I go home. Tell my tell my wife Amber, what's going on. She's like, we gotta get you the hospital, I'm like, hang tight, I don't want to take a quick shower. I don't want to be thinking up the joining, right? So I go in and I take a shower. Yeah, shower. And they only into the, you know, my wife takes me in the ER and she and you know I'm trying to be cool about this but in the back of my mind I'm kind of freaking out too right because it's starting to come with more more force and more pain and it's coming more frequently and I'm like yeah I got this coming right sort of a thing. and, They like Amber just says the words chest pain and shortness of breath and like I'm in a wheelchair. I'm getting wheel back, I'm getting hooked up to stuff, they're drawn blood and then they start asking the questions like when did you first notice this, you know how long has this been going on and and would you do right after an Amber goes? He took a shower and then came in and like the nurses just like stop work, right?

2:28:40 In the middle and like look at Amber and then they look over at me and they look back at Amber and they're like like one of the nurses goes you're more on sir and I'm like I was thinking, right? Not matter. Get in here right now. Fortunately Wasn't a heart attack. They didn't he like took some blood because apparently you'll kick out certain proteins or something when you have have heart trouble. That comes back clean. The EKG looks good and now it's about two in the morning, right? And they're just kind of watching me and it would hit every so often, I would kind of, you know, Winston and hold my breath a little bit but You know. So the doc comes in right after I have one of these episodes about two in the morning and he's like okay I can see you just went through something here but what happened? So I just sitting here and it just you know I kind of readjusted and it hurt and he goes what? What I was like.

2:29:34 Yeah just readjusted and it really hurt and he goes, what were you doing right before this happened? it was like, well, I was going for a personal record on the bench and Yeah. Okay. A few minutes later, someone comes in, they wheel me out for a kind of like an MRI right. You go back there. They they do the MRI. And he goes yeah bud you personally pour your Peck. That's why it's hurting. Now, the part I failed to mention was mention was, I'd already called my buddy at work and said, hey dude, I'm not gonna be there tomorrow, right? Cuz it's like 2:00 in the morning, it's like, what's going on? I said chest pains. He's like, okay, just keep me informed. So I remind another text at about five in the morning about the time I'm being discharged.

2:30:18 And told them I said, hey man, it looks like I just, you know, kind of ripped my Peck muscle a little bit. And you goes, oh well. That's good to hear. I showed back up the next day to work and there's like, Booms and big signs saying Dave, I'm sorry you tore your man boob, right? And there's like how to give yourself an at-home mammogram all over my desk, right? When you say Corey, shaved a little bit and stuff. I'm right there with you. Yeah. So anyway sorry sorry to interrupt their go ahead. That's all Right. Well, they um The EMTs came and you know, took me in and I guess I'll let Johnny yeah, yeah, so his oxygen levels just kept getting worse and worse, but we go to the emergency room and it's a small town here. So, And you know, it was devastating at the time but they're like, we don't have any beds, we're gonna have to fly them to Phoenix, you know.

2:31:20 So I'm like, oh, you know, there's no way I'm gonna First, Phoenix, from from where you guys are at. That's About an hour. So soft. Okay. it's a jock, and Kept me out. So that was really frustrating. So they still wouldn't let me in and I'm like, look, I had over, I'm still like partially sick from it, you know, like I can be with them and I don't know what would probably would have been hard to see him struggling as much as he was, but Basically. they fly him out and the rest of my my life for like 21 days while he's in the was 21 days at the hospital or the ICU I see you 21 days at ICU is calling you know I'm like sleeping a lot, calling the doctors in the morning praying you know praying so much and Cory is it one step away from me needing to take over like full power of attorney medical wise and he was a pre-med for a little bit, so he actually knows a little bit about stuff.

2:32:31 And so it's really interesting because, you know, one minute, he's telling me, Oh, they want to give me this drug, but I don't want to and, you know, he's pretty Lucid in the next minute we're having conversations. Like, you know, I'm hanging up and I'm, I say, I love you Corey and he says, I know I'm not that mean and another time they the nurse moved his, you know, little cup that you pee in and put it on the windowsill and he could not reach it, you know, and he couldn't get, he was too sick to like, roll over and gravity and so you like, I've got to go right now. I said, okay, I'll call the nurse and I hang up with him and called the nurses line, which, you know what this point is like on auto dial. And I'm like, he needs to go right now and they rush in the room and I call Corey back and he's like, they hurt you. Like I called them, he's not getting enough oxygen to his brain to pulling her stand things. I mean, he's He's one step away.

2:33:36 He will technically, he's intubated but not like the intubation where they Put them under. I was under the high flow and just you know, 40 liters of oxygen and just to kind of give some numbers for those who might have a little idea as an athlete. I would typically Sprint you know, cycle racing and I would hit numbers of maybe 160 170 heart rate, as far as my heart rate goes, um, just laying in bed. I was 132 to 176. So this is four weeks. I didn't even come down under one. 302 when, I was leaving the hospital, I was literally over 12131.

2:34:19 I was released. So it was very intense major exhaustion you know lost like 30 pounds and just those couple weeks dripping with sweat, barely could function certainly with seeing all kinds of visions and hallucinations and things like that. I was definitely experiencing something that's just as super intense but to kind of describe. But a lot of people they don't recognize. Here's what really happens to you physically. and your lungs filled up in my case, all the way to the top. And so it's all this gelatin fluid that I would spit out literally like a Jello. So it was it was fully gelatinized and Even, you know, a month out of the hospital.

2:35:07 I could literally breathe like 300 ml. So, basically, a little over about a cup of air and your lungs can hold a whole gallon plus in my case about five liters, And I could only breathe, you know, a cup of air, which is just so tiny. When you look at your lungs, and, you know, the interesting thing is even a month out of the hospital, nobody had answers, you know, they actually released me not having any way of telling me what I was going to do, or he hears just a few drugs to deal with your situation, and I don't know. It was fascinating to me that my body could hang in there and even live with all of this.

2:35:53 Because I was so exhausted, I'm working that hard. But what? What was happening was very intermittently. I would kind of go in and out of consciousness. And my body, my heart rate would just just go faster and faster even higher than those numbers. I'm sure. Just when I couldn't breathe or getting enough air and it very much felt like waterboarding, you know, they kind of describe waterboarding where they torture. You know, people from other countries to try to extract information from the spies or somebody that they've that they've got that sensitive Intel and they're just pouring water over their head and they gasp and and cough and choke and their body goes into shock.

2:36:37 I was just going into shock over and over. I was Intensity of it was extreme like I couldn't imagine how I could survive. Like I literally thought that was going to be it that day. Like if I could make it another hour maybe over and over for weeks to just feel my whole body you know you're going to die. Your body is telling you you're done and it's pushing at Redline limits. And there were just times, I felt some level of peace and comfort. Come over me. It. And I, I know that that was when Joanie was praying, and other of my friends were praying with, with great faith for me to survive.

2:37:20 This amazing that A human body. Can can take that much like I never put you on a ventilator or anything like that. Well, that they asked to do that. They wanted to and we denied them that that they didn't completely they were pushing it hard at that? Yeah, we it was we had. Yeah. We had to kind of fight them on that. No way things. The big thing was no remedies of beer. And they. Pulled the med. Set brought with him they you know they don't ever act in, they took vitamin C from me. It's like why would vitamin C ever mess with any with anybody's medical needs? And I'll share this isn't helpful. So, going back to the time that I had Trevor, I had him in Ogden and he was shipped to the Um, the NICU at Primary Children's and Primary Children's was the most beautiful experience with doctors, you know, ever like they were so attentive, so loving and they really are nurses, especially but here's how the medical system works in America. Now there's a big Corporation, it's all the hospital and they get directives from literally, the federal government, as to, here's what you can and can't do for every diagnosis. And there's not a lot of patience choices. However, you always have the right to refuse any treatment as a patient.

2:38:48 Now, there's only a few exceptions to that. That's if you're in the ER and they you know, it's emergency, they can't ask you when he was rushed into the ER they immediately put an IV in him, and as I'm saying no remdesivir and writing it down on a paper that he can take with him in case he can't talk to the nurses there, you know, to express his wishes that he doesn't want to take the Rim death. They quietly take out the IV and I don't want to freak him out but I'm sure she didn't even tell me because I would have I would have really been upset with that immediately later. It was from Deer. So um you know, because they charge us for it like several thousand dollars almost 3,000 dollars for for a little half a bag that they put in my arm.

2:39:33 Well they didn't get much. They didn't think goodness but you know, and so he gets to the hospital and calling and some of the nurses are really amazing. So like shout out to nurses are amazing but the doctors, you know they work in teams and what they're right doing is they run from Patient to Patient and spend like 15 minutes and anyway, so I'm begging doctors for any alternative treatment that they know of like, even just give them extra vitamin C to boost his immunity. And there's this one doctor at the ER, in Phoenix where he's been taking that gets on the phone. With me, tells me basically. Idiot that there's no studies that show that vitamin C helps with covid and that, you know, and he ends up hanging up on me. And so, back to, when I had Trevor one of the most fascinating things happened, you know, I'm in shock a little bit in shock after having Trevor with this diagnosis, they fly them there.

2:40:32 I want to be with him, but I'm told that I just had a C-section, so I have to wait to get my Staples out 48 hours later. So I'm not being you know, admitted. Well, these people are walking around offering like candy bars and sodas and whatnot, which, you know, in the hospital right after you have a child, not healthy. That's not what I need. But they were really friendly like volunteers and they're like, well and I, you know, ask my story told him I had this baby, that might die anytime. I don't know. You know, and they're like, well, let me get the social worker. So social worker comes in and she's like, do you want to see her baby? I'm like, well yes, but I was told I can't get released. She's like I can get She released.

2:41:12 And so, she went and advocated for me and got me released early. And then I just came back up and later and got my stitches out later, you know, no big deal. Yeah. And that, that experience prepared me for him being in the hospital because I knew once that doctor hung up on me, I was like, you know, it was so politicized during this time that I was like, I really hope they don't take this out on Corey, like, don't give him good treatment because they're like, oh he's one of those crazies that has Ivermectin and his wife's crazy. We're not, yeah, I didn't get the vaccine and die. So yeah, I'm not following their protocol that I do deserve to die kind of thing because some some of them were looking at me like you almost deserve it kind of thing.

2:41:52 I I called their their case management number and I reported I said I look I'm not here. I don't want. Any trouble. I don't want him to be in trouble, but I need to know that my husband is being taken care of, and I am scared. He could die. And he did not handle that appropriately. And I get it that you guys are overworked in your tired. But you know what, I'm still a customer and I need to know that he's going to be taking care of. So anyways, so that that's something you always have the right to do and most circumstances is to refuse care and they're not supposed to kick you out of the hospital. I've had.

2:42:33 They told Joanne, they'd kick her out if she did and that's a very young. That is a violated me? Yeah. No. They said that to her. They were really mean with her and she's a nurse practitioner too. She taught these a lot of these nurses and it just broke her heart. You know how they were treating her after she was, they were her students. He humanized her little bit and she just couldn't understand it because she's the most charitable person you know she's so sweet bubbly and outgoing. Sweet. It was like what is going on here with these people, you know. But yeah anyway that's what her. Daughter told me my friend. So in that 21 days, like how much of that was like, touching go?

2:43:21 About all of it. Like they kind of they kind of kicked me out of the hospital just a few days after that, but I was so dysfunctional like I like, It's hard to imagine like, as an athlete. That I could have survived it. I literally No, it makes no logical sense. That a human body could have survived. What I did. I literally just, I don't give someone who's a non-athlete, there's no way, they'd be, they'd be done in a day. They would not be on this Earth. Not with what my body was suffering from. And how, how hard I had to work to get are and to breathe and the coughing and everything that we're coming up with that because I literally just was struggling.

2:44:07 Like, I was being held underwater and then I come up and I just think like that and then I would just be under the water again and again, and again. And I was just like, I looked around this little hospital room. I just thought this sucks. It's like I'm just gonna die in this room like all of the like crazy Sports. I've done on skis, going off, cliffs and skateboarding down streets and motorcycle stunts I've done and and this is it for me. I was like oh and I just thought and you know him he father you know, Help me out here. It's like you told me, I would have two more children and you know, I've got the most wonderful wife and I feel like I'm so blessed right now and I don't know. How this is happening or how this all works or why I'm experiencing all of this?

2:44:58 Because I've never really been sick before. And wow, I did have the The comfort of my pillow grabbing me turning into a teddy bear and just, you know, wrapping wrapping its arms around me and just comforting me. And, you know, Johnny was like saying that's probably our Traverse ending sending you, this wonderful little message and I totally agree. I there were times when I just felt the comfort of people's prayers during that even in between and the hardest part was trying to bring my heart rate down where I wasn't working so hard to just survive. The Panic was so So intense and that's, you know.

2:45:42 Yeah. It's like you're just like Like this. I'd like, I can't I can just describe it somewhat, but it really is not do justice to being held underwater that many times and gasping for breath. And then it's like, you're going under again, you know, you're going under again. It's like this, it's it's like this never-ending torture that is kind of an Indescribable to someone who hasn't really had the covid like that. It's really cruel. It's such a cool way to die and cool. Way to even suffers, as long as I was for weeks. He was on depth store step. No, no doubt. And so me, I'm home praying and I'm praying. You know, I didn't know what praying with intent meant, until that time, really I prayed Hours and hours, and she was praying several hours every day.

2:46:31 Two, three hours every day for me. Yeah, gave me a blessing. I mean, that was my full-time job. We had some some clients lined up and I said, Cory's in the hospital. See all later and they never came back. But it was what it was and and I was still kind of sick myself but I just I prayed and prayed and prayed and my dad gave me a blessing and in it he said you know, to Seek Out friends when you're fake this week. and, you know, I think of how Peter, Jesus tells Peter right before he tells them, that he's going to deny him. He says, you know, I, I will pray that your will be not and it was that kind of same thing where it's like, I was being told that I need to have the faith for Corey that he's gonna make it, even though it doesn't look like it and even if I got bad news like it even for me, you know, you know, from the nurse that morning, that his numbers aren't getting any better or that they had gotten worse or, you know, whatever that I needed to have that faith for him. And that's where I was praying too, you know, like Trevor gold comfort him and so, you know, and asking others to pray with me when I was discouraged and feeling like he wasn't going to make it and it was Thanksgiving Day. And I had prayed and prayed and prayed and Corey was feeling well enough to do the nurse had him. He actually got out of bed and

2:48:02 sat up on a chair. And so hard to do that. Just like I have lifted you know, 800 pounds on squats, doing almost half the way down doing partials. With that chair was a bit as hard. It was even harder. Physically. I was just like almost passing out and seeing Stars doing that. It was wild. I felt impressed to start playing the piano for him you know and so I'm like not like the greatest pianists that you know good enough to Play songs and hymns and things that I played for hours, the whole family, you know, had Thanksgiving meal. And I laid at night and I just played for hours for him and he sat and listened. I remember what that was like to just hear piano music and just how Hard.

2:48:50 It was to just hang in there because I was just emotionally drained to a degree. This is hard to put into words and that I thought so much, you know, peace. Oh yeah, it was just to calm myself at all. That was the hardest part of staying alive during that experience. you know, from then, on out, it was, you know, I was sending him just like YouTube videos of meditation music and like, listen to this to help him slowed, his heart rate and and try and and try and relax, and it helped it helped a lot. Yeah, it really, really did like um, the music started to change. You know what I was dealing with and brought me down where I was starting to get manageable, you know, maybe 10 beats per minute or something, but stops me from having the panic attacks so much because I wasn't getting the air.

2:49:42 Um it's yeah your body does not like it when it doesn't get are and if you're held down you're just you're just gasping and just freaking out literally just like you're going crazy to try and get air. And I guess the thing that, you know, touched me most is, you know, I I know I was voted on the island, you know, the Joni was praying so much for me and that some of my friends were praying so much for me. Just touched my heart and just, I know that there's a purpose for me to be on this Earth that I have things to do that, you know, children to raise and people to serve, and my testimony to share and Trying to bring people greater happiness, and serve them with my skills and marketing.

2:50:27 And Try to bring the fundamentalists and the LDS church together more where they're not upset at each other and we can work together to all, bring about Zion as much as possible. And crazy sustainable communities, and kind of get ready for some of the bigger challenges that are coming our direction, that, you know, we've been setting, we've been told the scriptures. Are you know, in the last days we're gonna have some challenges. Um, and apparently these plagues are part of that. I don't think I ever would have understood what old people deal with without having this covid experience. You know, I look at the old people in the war that come up on Walkers, you know, I I was having to use a cane in a walker for a while as well and Carrie oxygen tanks around everywhere. No, I want to add one more thing to kind of wrap up. The story is so he gets that whole which we're so grateful, you know, I'm like so grateful that I get to take them home. So he's out of the, I see you, I get to go up there, I stamp my cousin's house, I'm with him.

2:51:27 You know, every day for probably about a week and I get to take him home on oxygen. So he's still, you know, an invalid and they're like, well, do you have a doctor? And we have our natural passed on like, yeah, yeah. We've got a doctor so, you know, just let us out and we get home and And he's stable and he's slowly getting a little bit less. Like I'm slowly lowering able to lower down the oxygen because they sent him home on like the max amount of leaders. You know, they're just like and we need another bed, you know get him out and he Yeah.

2:52:08 And so, I've thought this full-time nursing job on my hands and I'm like, well, what do? What's next? Is he going to have permanent lung damage as he's going to be on oxygen, the rest of his life, like some people have experienced and then the doctors, none of the doctors know anything and I can't get in anywhere to a normal doctor and so through just prayers and fasting because now I'm like, okay, now I've got to pray to figure out what what I needed to get him better so that he's not handicapped for the rest of his life in this way. He, you know, and so we find through a friend, find a doctor who he was trained in the United States.

2:52:50 So, I mean, if you have any concerns about his, his training Education and Training, he's in India. So, in India, it was a very different experience. They got to test drugs, they got to use whatever, you know, and it was just totally up to the doctor's discretion. And if He got something wrong in the patients were mad at you. Then, you know, it was, it was the doctor and the patient relationship. There is no higher authority, telling the doctor what to do, and he knew so much about covid. He's like there's three phases and he says, okay, you've got to get him on three things, he's got, and he had specifics, he's like, he's not 90 days. Oh, let me back up.

2:53:31 So when you do an MRI, you know it's not the right one to scan the chest or the lungs. You will see that he's got the, the plural fusions which is just like the dark spots saying that there's something there. Yeah. You see, in mine, it looked kind of like outer space where you have the Galaxy with spots all over the chest butcher, looks at that. And they don't tell you is the scarring, is this permanent or is it liquid, you know, like they don't know they can't know that from looking at that picture. So you know, so for him to have read enough studies and to be following covid, So, well, he was like, you've got 90 days post covid.

2:54:11 So I've already, he's already been home for about 30 days now. So now it's going in 60 days of having covid. So I have blood one more month to get the clocks out. So they would set up. They'll start setting up and you're kind of like how you scab over when you have something to start to. You'll start to your body's healing process, will start to create scar tissue in the lungs and he'll, you know, struggle to breathe with that. So he says you need three medications, you need the blood thinners to keep the blood flowing out and get those blood clots out. You need the dexamethasone, which is The Stereotype of your lungs. That you take it high altitudes, mountain climbers, using to give them an advantage on, you know, Everest when they're just really hypoxic up there and then just opens up the lungs, right.

2:54:56 Yeah. Gives them some more oxygen because they're in such a low in oxygen environment and just gives them that 10% Edge or a little bit more than 10% in this case. And then and then the culture scene, which is the Gout the inflammation process because the inflammation process is your body is going to go in and create the scar tissue. So we ran down to Mexico to you know get ya soon as we heard about it, you like we couldn't we couldn't we couldn't get the meds in for another five days and was like my the next day was my birthday and I was like well let's just drive down to Mexico and get these meds and Wow. I was very surprised by how that affected me.

2:55:38 I went to the first Pharmacy. We found grabbed the needle and, you know, did the blood thinner in my stomach there and the in the street took the dexamethasone and The. Culture scene for the the inflammation and then we just grabbed a little taco and then drove across the border. And by the time we got to the Border, I was listening to some 80's music. And mind, you my ability to talk was not very good because I could not get very deep are. So my breathing was very labored and my conversations. I get out about a sentence or so without choking and coughing and having a hard time. Communicating with anybody.

2:56:26 But I literally in that our something, after taking those meds, I could see 80s music, you know, on the way home. From Mexico. And I was so stunned by this and we stopped by Tombstone because they have a little gun show and kind of an old part of the the city that you could kind of see. And so, I walked around there for a full Mile right after getting a shot with an auction, this is like so Extreme as far as the change in just a couple hours that it's just it's amazing like Hi. And I also went from about 300 MLS to 500 MLS to 1500 MLS within three days on this new on this medication. So it literally was a night and day difference where I could actually have conversations with people again and I was literally going to be left, you know, a month out of the hospital. I couldn't even have conversations, and I was on so much oxygen.

2:57:26 It looked like I was never going to get better. There are people in my ward just wondered if I was ever gonna recover because it was, I wasn't seeing much progress. And so for me, it was like, I just had a new life, like I can get some air into my lungs again. And now I took another month or two for, for me, to get up to four leaders, but it was literally within the month that I was getting up there and then it became comfortable, you know, a month or so after that to get a deep breath of four, four leaders, the full gallon of of air. But what's done me so much is that you know, social media wasn't allowing these conversations that I couldn't just get on. And tell everybody guess what?

2:58:07 I just discovered about covid. If you're struggling with, you know, covid you can take these meds and this should fix things for you. I wanted to scream it from the rooftops and tell everybody, and my doctor even got kicked off of LinkedIn. The one that was giving us giving us all this wonderful advice Dr. Dimelo and he was an answer to prayers and he still totally very knowledgeable about everything. And he cares very much about his his patients and he he does he chooses your your treatment based on your symptoms and he'll research the best drugs and, you know, talk to you about them. And And he charges very little and of course, he can't prescribed here in the United States. So if you ever use them, you have to work with the doctor, he can get some medicine to you, but he tries to get the med center to a doctor of your choice here and then he'll help you kind of with the program.

2:59:00 But there's 200 different symptoms that covid. Effects. So it can be just this incredible range of things that people are dealing with, with long covid and has a covid group online on Facebook. Now, that since they've kind of opened those doors to have some of those conversations, he's helping a lot of folks, kind of a recent one that he we talk all the time on the phone, every every few weeks he is now. Prescribing nandilone for folks who have hives as one of their symptoms from covid. So if people have major breakouts one or two shots of of mandrel alone have been fixing people pretty much 100% in Two Shots. That's a steroid and that's a steroid. Yeah, so he's finding some things that are just dramatic improvements for folks.

2:59:55 To me, I'm just so grateful that, you know, Lord is opened up some of these answers for me. I feel like it's definitely made me more sensitive to what other people are going through because I never really experienced those. Like I was saying with the old folks, you know, having a hard time walking and functioning and just not even being able to exercise. You know, I was used to going into steam room and Asuna, you know, pretty much every day and then biking an hour every day I did 50 miles, you know, and the desert the week I got covid and you know I was able to, you know, go at a fairly decent clip, 18 miles an hour, 20 miles an hour on the bike. um, and just to walk up anywhere with covid and watching what other people deal with.

3:00:42 I feel like I have a lot more empathy and understanding of what it's like for them, it's like, oh now I understand what it's like to go to the gym and not like working out. Now, I understand, you know why a lot of people aren't so motivated to get a lot of things done in their life, why a lot of people maybe aren't happy in their relationships, they don't feel good enough. You know, they're angry at their wife, their husband, their kids. They're just not as happy individuals, because they don't feel good. And so, I don't know, my heart really goes out to folks, much more. So, and A lot of prayers have been going out to other folks who are dealing with covid and I've tried to understand it so that I have some answers for them to help them with their health challenges.

3:01:24 Because, you know, I found a lot for me and I've really buried myself in books, trying to get a better understanding of how He's Farm a suitable steroids, peptides and Natural Foods affect us, too. You know, like what are the best foods that can kind of heal you? We, we found one while we was in. We were in the hospital, we have pomegranate trees here, And Joni's dad, squeezed some juice for me and she brought it to me and I see you there. He's you know he's got the cannula so he's hooked up to the oxygen and you can watch while he drink it. You could watch it go up to oxygen level points.

3:02:05 As you know, Fresh fruits and vegetables, very oxygen. But pomegranates is one of the highest amount of Carries one of the highest amount of oxygens of all of them. And so, you could just see it go up as really. Yeah, it was cool every single time and that's got increases testosterone too and your auction consumption. So as an athlete, that's really a fantastic thing for cycle, Racers and Runners and such. anyway, um, that's kind of gives you a little bit of the story of of what that was like and that there are answers out there and While. All these symptoms can manifest differently and they're different combinations of either Pharmaceuticals or food type items and herbs that can kind of help different supplements.

3:02:52 There's answers out there and I know they can be found and how many father kind of leads us to that? You know, I feel like Dr. Dimelo was very much an answer to prayer and he does strive to To assist his patients. He can, there are other people that aren't even, you know, members of the church. Well, you know, like dimelo, who He feels inspired you know Heavenly Father. Kind of works through him to come up with answers for folks and he was A great blessing to me. Super great. Absolutely, let me ask you this question. I got three questions here that I want to ask you guys and then we'll move on to the other stuff here but the first question is, Is.

3:03:40 Do you have any lingering effects, still from covid? You feel like you've kicked it and it's behind you or do you feel like you're still dealing with the Fallout? Um, I've definitely had to deal with Fallout over and over several times because I got covid four more times after going to the hospital. So, they say that those who have gotten vaccinated shed for several weeks after very strongly. So that may have been part of the reason or other people just got different variants and those were just going around. I ended up getting it where it got into my lungs a little bit again and started taking lots of different supplements started researching steroids in depth you know red and literally 50 books on how to bring my system up and open my lungs up and kind of get back to lifting weights like I had you know previous to getting covid.

3:04:31 It wasn't just that so, little Arc has struggled with rain Fox. Yeah. Lost some of his memory, he has, you know, That they said he was diabetic because his, you know, his organs were shutting down. Basically is not really diabetic, but but his reproductive system and testosterone and hormones were off keltic it, couldn't even digest food. It's like your energy, level goes terrible. And I was like what is happening to me. It's like I just all of a sudden turned into a 90 year old person with one foot in the grave.

3:05:12 It's like literally dysfunction at a level. I've never felt or couldn't I couldn't imagine it actually you just take it for granted when you feel good as an athlete. It's like, I've never known what that is. Like, put myself in someone else's shoes, but we're hard to work now. And oh, yeah. Every workout was hard and, um, over the last few months, By stop getting stronger. So my exercise on the bike every day for an hour very minimal and I've never really experienced such minimal growth where I started even going backwards as far as what I could lift on my squats and other other exercises. I just thought this is crazy what's happening. So, you know, I started researching different steroids and things like that.

3:05:59 I started to take a few and they really helped. They gave me a bit of an advantage, but the fascinating thing is my own body when I was healthy was producing more hormones and more digestion and a faster recovery by far than any of these steroids that I took or any pharmacy suitables. And so, I've I've experimented with them and while they were helpful that didn't get me fully on track and it's, it was so frustrating to me last month that I just said enough of this, you know, I've taken all these steroids, I've taken all these Pharmacy suits I've tried all the stuff. One of the guys on Facebook has fasted for 40 days to heal his body of his, his inability to digest food.

3:06:44 And I thought, well, okay, I'm gonna least do about half that and so I I fasted 24 days last month and you know, lost 40 pounds more than that, but and it really just affected me where My memory started to return, I've read thousands of books. I've just I'm a voracious reader, I love to study things, I feel like I just need to know more things. I'm super curious. Never felt like I had enough answers for things in life and I couldn't access most of those books. I memorized like 800 scriptures on my mission and I couldn't remember many of those scriptures exactly where they were. and during this fasting, this last month, I started to remember things again and the scripture started to come back to me on a lot of book passages and things that I had read. And in my dreams, I was becoming more Lucid in marking. You can never be too smart because I'm basically being hired by business owners, who were already some of the smartest people ever, and they're great at what they do. And I'm trying to help promote their businesses better than than what they can do.

3:07:57 And and that's how you even make a living in marketing. Um, and I was always struggling to, to connect the dots and just have my brain back. And so this was just so frustrating for me to just work so hard, and not have that, you know, sharpness, and mental sharpness that I was having. So just the fasting itself, definitely? You know, about 20 IQ points. You know, I'm not back to what I was as far as complete. But, you know, maybe another 20 IQ points or more but, um, definitely connecting the dots more and my memories are turning where I'm just going to be so much more helpful physically last week.

3:08:39 I Did my best squats that I've done since I've had covid and I just was so grateful and so happy about I was just thrilled. I just just on cloud nine. Like, yes, but even more than that is, you know, what is my relationship? Like With My Father in Heaven. You know, after all these kind of challenges like this, you're like, you know, God, you know, you still there, you know, do you still love me? You know, why did I have to suffer this bad? I don't really know the full answer to why The whole covid thing happened for me. I really don't get it fully but I can tell you, I have tons more compassion for other people. I'm not really experienced anything. This this much of Humble Pie this much of Challenge.

3:09:23 You know. Life's challenges. How much more can it be? And yet, I know he loves me so much and I feel his love in my life. I feel the spirit, when I pray, when joining I get together and we pray, we read scriptures, pretty much every night and I feel his love in my life all the time. So I know hands and he has You know, a soft spot for me. And I have such a feeling of gratitude for him and his kindness in my life. So I don't feel like I am pushed him away, or I'm blaming him. Exactly, or I'm angry at him.

3:10:06 You know. I don't feel like I've really had that. Sense about dealing with covid and the loss of Trevor or other challenges that I've had where we've lost, you know, a significant amount of funds that people misrepresented themselves. And, you know, we had some business dealings, you know, just during our marriage that significant You know, and we're still renting at the moment. And we could have had a couple houses with the funds that were taken, so that is heartbreaking. And it is a challenge and you're like, well, you know, we've tried to be good members of the church. We've tried to live our lives, you know, in a way we were going to the temple regularly we are, you know, fasting and praying and and serving other people as best we can, but I don't still feel like it's enough. I still want to do so much more honestly. So, um, But I am grateful for.

3:10:56 The gospel and I'm grateful for, you know what? I've learned you just on this podcast from from all of your conversations. I feel like that's helped me. Be a better Christian and a better member of the church and a lot more excited about the gospel and its really connected. A lot of things that I didn't fully understand, you know, I served a mission, I go to BYU education week, pretty much every year. I love so much of what the LDS church is doing. And there's just so much more to understanding the gospel and applying it. I mean, certainly the simple things are just love your neighbor and love God. I feel that in my heart. yeah, there's plenty of Doctrinal things that I'm still connecting the dots on. um, so I feel like that's our reason kind of forgetting on this podcast. Here also is to promote this new website that we're helping you with 1830 words.

3:11:51 I am. We're gonna get there. But there's there's, there's couple more questions I want to want to get to here, okay? As far as. Like have you been able to come up with like a physical explanation? Why why I hit you as hard as it did? Because like you were the like if there was a candidate to have covid and make it through it you were it right? I mean yeah. After we active It doesn't sound like you were vitamin D deficient anything like that. Right? So how have you were the doctors or the southern? Dr. You've talked to and all said why it is it so hard more than anybody else. Um, the only thing that came up with was when my blood was drawn in the hospital which I don't know exactly when they were testing that they said I was slightly vitamin D but I had walked and I've been outside twice with my shirt off that week for an hour.

3:12:47 So I was getting sunlight and I don't know, but it was very minimal, it wasn't a lot but that's the only marker that I saw. I wasn't you know diabetic I wasn't dealing with you know, more comorbidity is that most people who suffered with covid. Um had that got it. So they're really was not any quick easy marker and so it's been puzzled to me as well. It's like what was I doing? Did I eat something that I shouldn't have? There really isn't anything. I can really point to that dropped my immune system. Where I would have been vulnerable but I did have three exposures that week to people who had covid and they say that with covid, it's kind of cumulative. Like you get so much exposure on your body, it just overwhelms your body. and, Now, I wouldn't have thought that that was really possible because it's like, well, your body just has a good enough immune system or a dozen and you can fight off anything.

3:13:51 If you're you know, fit and healthy do your spec. I started to get the feeling that we, as fundamentalists and Orthodox Mormons, we need our own stuff up to. Now, we've been able to buy and purchase all of our scriptures books, art and music from other restoration, organizations and that's been good. But there's no guarantee it's going to remain that way. All it can be a bit tricky to scour the internet, trying to find all the books from your favorite fundamentalists or Orthodox warming. Authors as I thought about this, I feel like I was really giving a solution now through the hard work of others because let's face it. I'm the guy least qualifying all the world to build a website. I'm happy to present to you 1830 mercantile.com right now. On the website, you can see that. We have all the books have ever been written, by four authors, including games like, true granny and Ogden Brown also very soon.

3:14:39 There will be a link to buy art and music. All produced by Mormons with a deep love for the restored gospel. There's also places for you to get free resources where you can find podcast, videos, classes, and other presentations. Also coming very soon. There will be a place for events where you can list the events from your organization so that you can get the most out of that attendance. Now this can be as big as you want it to be. It's all up to you guys out there if you want to buy and post things on here. Now if you're someone who produces something that you feel like others can benefit from 1830 mercantiles, a place where you can make all of those products available for purchase. All you need to do is drop me an email at Mormon, Renegade at gmail.com and put 1830 and in the title or that email with a short message. And either myself or someone else from the 1830 Mercantile team will reach out to you so we can get your product up there on the site now.

3:15:32 To make sure that all the products that we offer are affordable and to ensure that the vast majority of the profits go to the producer, the website percentage is only three to four percent of the total cost and that's just so I can pay the pros that have created this website and keep the lights on the website itself. Finally, by making some of your purchases at 1830 mercantile. You will be supporting folks, whose principles and morals are closed. If not the same as yours at the same time, not giving your money away. People who stand against everything you stand for. So no matter if you're looking to make a purchase or you're a seller that wants to get your products listed head on over to 1830 Mercantile dot org today, drop me an email and we'll make sure that we get back out to you now back to the show. Yeah.

3:16:18 So that's that's so interesting. Right. Because look I think I got covid four times three that I can confirm and then one that I can't that I think was too early. So Utah, does it done a business with China? Yeah, and the December before. Before covid hit, right? Because we start really hearing about it in late January, and then it becomes really a thing in February December. I had gotten just sick, right? Like, I had never run a fever before in my life, like I have had, you know, I called my mother, right? And I was like, do I run fevers because I was running like 104 fever and she's like, you didn't, you didn't run a, a fever. When you were teething you didn't run a fever when you had chickenpox.

3:17:03 Like, I just don't run fevers, right? it's at 105 fever, a chest full of Gunk, kind of looked like jello, um, and I just kind of you know, Amber's like Okay. This is a horrible admission too Amber cycle. What do you do to get better, right? Because it ran the gamut in the house and Amber's like what are you gonna do to fix it? And I'm like, I don't know, I think I'm just gonna eat a steak and some grapefruit and lift some weights and see how that does. Right? And fortunately for me, it turned out right there is where like my guardian angels are like, he's a moron, right. He Savage bees and absolutely more. Um, but anyway, I, you know, caught, you know, look it got real bad when I coughed up a little bit of blood and I'm like, Oh look The White.

3:17:50 Yeah, don't let the wife, see that one, she'll make me go to the doctor, the hell with that. So I just like like put the napkin in there, but then I start hearing about covid. And I think when you're in at that time, I was right in the train from Salt Lake to Pro Orem, right? So, and the train I got picked up, always came from the airport, so I am imagined. That's why. Yeah. Easy to get. Nah. And but then I got three more times and I, it really was nothing. Like the the second time I got it, it was like, um, Allergies, right, I guess because I don't have allergies either. But you know, I was like, okay this must be what allergies feel like and then they said I got this email at work going covid.

3:18:34 Tracing has said, you have been in contact, please come up to the kind. Oh wow, dang it. Alright, so I go up and sure enough I got covid, so I go home for a week and I was better than the next day, right? I'm like, well, this is done, but looks like I'm gonna get real good at Madden over the next week, right? Because I got nothing else going on. and then, In and then I got it one. Other time. The only symptom I knew had, the only reason I even remotely thought I had, it was because I was taking a shower and Amber had bought me new soap. And I went to smell the soap and I couldn't smell anything like wow, yeah, wrap right. Like dang it. And then sure enough I get to work the next day and there's another email, like, come see us, you you've been in contact another week off and then the third time, I didn't even know nothing nothing at all.

3:19:25 I mean, like it was literally just them sending out the email. Now, a guy that looks like me, I expect to be in the hospital, right. Like and so it was just it's odd how it hit people, right? But I do think some of that had to do with viral load. I think some of it too. Could be just You get caught in a bad time, right? I know something. One guy caught it and caught it bad kind of like you were Corey athlete. I mean. Into it hard, right? He was traveling and had done quite a bit of traveling, which I say lowers your immune system anyway. Right? Because you're, you're encountering. Air travel air travel.

3:20:05 Yeah. Take you down a lot. Yep. And so that's where he figured he got, but it was just strange how it hit everybody. But and, and one other thing I wanted to point out here, that occurred to me, you had said, you know, you you think you were healed because you had worked to do and I don't doubt that for a moment. But also I think maybe the Lord and and you alluded to this a little bit Lord was trying to teach you compassion, I think right if I was to guess, right? Or because I always come out of those kinds of things like I remember I tore my ACL. And all the sun, I had compassion on people that I never thought I'd have compassion on because I'm homebound, I can go in to rehab for two hours, a day tops, and it's all white weight, and I frustrated, and I'm angry because I can't do anything right, can't get outside. I'm just stuck.

3:20:55 Um, so I, I could see where that would do it, but man, that's, that's some crazy stuff and, and it sounds like you're on the downhill side, but you're still dealing with stuff. Yep. Yep. And you know there's been so many experiments yet the last little bit, you know, I felt the strongest impression that had my father would heal me completely and to me that is the greatest gift of knowing that I just believed in his promises. I believe in those Impressions that I get when, I know they're real impression from him. It's not something I'm just making up or putting into, you know, wishful thinking kind of thing. When I know those are from him, I just feels me with a lot of gratitude that, you know what?

3:21:36 I'm gonna have my body back. I'm going to be able to lift those really heavy weights. Again, I'm going to be, you know, able to cycle race again at a good clip. And I was, you know, I was doing, you know, 100 miles and, you know, almost 20 miles an hour up, the Utah Canyon's, you know, go from Salt Lake to Morgan to Ogden back again and, you know, you know, little more than five hours. Yeah, that was another hopefully. Oh sorry. What's that was another thing the doctor said is he's got bigger blood vessels in a bigger Hearts because of you know, his athletic years cycling. You know, the aerobics built his bill, his body up and that may have saved his life as well. Yeah.

3:22:18 Interesting. Well, are we ready to move on to more? Shinier happier things. Sure. Yeah. Which one you want to cover first? Well into 1830 or um, yeah. Yeah, sure. Let's go in the 1830. Tell you what? I'm gonna share my screen real quick, so I got the website pulled up. All right, unless you wanted to do it. Oh no. Have that, okay? So I okay. So full disclosure, this one was, was kind of my idea that that I asked, Tony Corey and Joanie to help me on here. so, As fundamentalists like once a year usually about October and November. I'm coming up on that again.

3:23:05 Scared to do that again. I I stopped for a moment and and I asked I asked God, where do you want me to take this next? Cuz look, I still stand by the fact. I am the last guy in the world that should be doing a podcast ever. Just Barnard. Not really in my wheelhouse. But yet, here I am. that said, Because I know I'm unqualified for this. I check in with the Lord a lot because it's the only way that I'm gonna keep my head above water on the and, I remember it was it was about The first time I get, get the inclination for this it's about two years ago and it takes me a while to wrap my head around this. But the thought comes.

3:23:50 Fundamentalist need their own stuff. Right. Um, we still have the opportunity to go to Deseret Book and buy our scriptures and buy artwork and those sorts of things. But I could see a day where that wouldn't be the case. Right. Where where either a scripture will change is made that that fundamentalist don't agree with whether We just can't go there anymore for whatever reason and so I start thinking about it like, okay, where do we gonna do in this at this, at this point? and, I remember there was another frustration I had of just, it's like if I wanted to go buy a fundamentalist book or a set of books, I had to like, go to Amazon and like track everything down and bring it all into one place and then try to do it and it was just a pain.

3:24:44 And so my thought was is well why can't we have a bookstore? Why can't we have a place where we can go get the stuff that we want. And we don't have to go. Travel the internet for three, three days, trying to find it all. And so that was kind of the Genesis behind this. And this is what, what I I've come up with and and Corey and Joni really did most of the work on to help me get there. Because Not only should I not be doing podcasts? I really shouldn't be making websites either. Um, like my When I told when I told Amber and Tanya about this, they're like you can't get dressed in the morning and look like a functional adult, like you have no fashion sense, like how are you going to build a website? And I'm like, you're not wrong, you're not wrong. Like wherever I go, I do make a fashion statement and it's this that's it, right?

3:25:38 That's the fashion statement. Um, but So your help on this was instrumental, but let me share my screen here. So this is 1830 Mercantile, dot org. And this is going to be a place. I hope that we can keep up and running and it will be able to facilitate the needs of other fundamentalists out there. Now, right now, we just have books up but there is going to be a section for like your home where I Envision artwork or something like that. There'll be a place for music. I'm working with people to get that going right now. Same with the artwork, but we do have books. And so Corey and Joni, I'm gonna let you guys kind of take it away here and you can tell me where to poke buttons at. You're not and and tell us kind of what what your thoughts were in creating this and where what some of the challenges were and then when when stuff came together and that sort of thing, It is certain oh, okay.

3:26:47 Well, I think you know, having friends who are In the fundamentalist Camp, the struggle or independent even the struggle is that there's not enough unity. And I know, you know, there's some frustration with the church That's some people have but if you look at what the church has been able to do because of its being unified, then it's done a lot of good and that's where we kind of skipped over. Corey's. The family history, where his mom was. Well, we'll get to that after. Well, but the church the church gave food to people Ezra Taft Benson gave food to you know fought to give food to people that people in Germany. Maybe maybe I should get to that now. Yeah. my family um kind of joined the church because on both sides they had missionaries that both my parents met and, My mother's experience is just especially profound in. In kind of what happened to her.

3:28:00 I grew up in Germany, my father was military, he was commissioned to BYU and went over there after he met my mother to raise us children in Germany where we have relatives and we kind of covered some of that story already but share your mother but I wanted to kind of share what happened with my mother and during World War Two. There were bombings and obviously the fight between Russia and Poland and and the area that they were living and it ended up getting bombed out. My grandmother grabbed a wheel car, or a hand car and kind of tracked, all the way from the Poland area, all the way to yanon and Germany, which is, you know, 300 miles within a hand car, the train tracks. You know, we're being bombed behind them. Just a lot of chaos was going on. She was protected several times where she felt like she needed to get out of the bomb shelter and She felt like God had protected her because she felt impressed to leave. And she actually couldn't breathe. And the people tried to hold her back, but she pushed through and then found another person's home to stay in during the bombing. And she came back and that bomb shelter was destroyed and I was my grandmother.

3:29:26 And she knocked on doors, once she got, you know, 300 miles away from the wars Zone a bit. And her relatives did not take her in. So she wasn't able to get food from friends or relatives and a lot of these cities, she actually dug in Farmers fields to get potatoes and radishes on different foods. There to feed my mother and my aunt. and I ended up chatting with my aunt here just to double triple check all of the little story elements so that I would just kind of share kind of a brief little history but What was interesting is that during the the last few months of the war, once the Germans surrendered, Great Britain and America shut off the the ports to bring food into the cities in Germany. So that choice actually killed A lot of men women and children by the millions in Germany.

3:30:19 It's probably the the cruelest thing that America did as a country in World War Two, they're going to have to answer for But my my grandmother wasn't unable to get food and Ezra Taft Benson. He knew about what was going on. That the German people and the members in Germany were starving. And he asked, Eisenhower, can I send food to the Mormons there in Germany? And he said, yes, I'll allow it. So, my grandmother ended up getting food that you kind of saved her life and, and some of those food packages. And then she eventually immigrated to America where she wanted to find out about the church. That was so kind to send food, and, and resources and special packs of of first aid items and Necessities to people. They didn't even know.

3:31:13 And then she joined the church. She just wanted to be part of all of that after she heard more about it. But, you know, in this kind of world where everyone's fighting online for, Figuring out what's right? A lot of people are angry at the LDS church, you know, atheists, you know, sometimes the gays liberals and others. Are some people are expressing a lot of anger on line and hate towards the church but nobody's ever, really recognizing. The fact that That the LDS church is literally saved people's lives by the hundreds of thousands. And while they're criticizing this organization, how much of these atheists done to save hundreds of thousands of people's lives? How many of these auntymaza are saving Hunters of thousands of people's lives?

3:31:57 The LDS church actually has been part of that and they do lots of good things because they do get together as a group. And so I'm just so grateful for that. And I feel like that's just something that needs to be said, you know, in context of yeah, the LDS church is doing, you know, some amazing things and can they do a lot more things? Absolutely. Are there. Some things that they've perhaps made some mistakes with? Yeah, you know, we're seeing some of that. A lot of those conversations are being had on your your website here or your your podcast. and I would just say the reason I think that story is so relevant is because the website's about building Unity among Not just the fundamentalist that any any more men Independence or any groups and that's worse.

3:32:49 stronger together, you know, not to pull out any corny lines but Really. There's so many things we can't build Zion alone, like we can't build Zion alone, and I know there's some frustrations with. Well, the LDS church has really commercialized things and we don't want to do that. But the the reality is, is that you vote with your dollar, you know, and if we're not going to use, I mean, if we're not going to buy things from people who have good Hearts, who are we going to buy things from, you know, in the current climate, maybe at some future time will figure out a way to like, trade or not need to buy things but we need to buy things so who we buy it from does matter. And so, I see this as an online Gathering Place for people who, you know, want Zion in their hearts where it's like, hey, you know what, here's my talents, you know, let your talent shine. Here's the books.

3:33:46 Here's the music. Here's the art. And let the world see that and let it be a testimony to who you are. And And yeah, you guys deserve to have your own Deseret Book. Totally. Totally, you know, here's what I'll say about this too, in terms of the Unity part, right? Don't, I don't want people to get to get it kind of Twisted here, right? I am not looking to try. This project is not looking to try to. Get everybody to together religiously. Right. So to speak, I think it's a good thing that there's a couple different flavors of this thing out there because what works for one group, or one person may not work for another right?

3:34:35 And so there needs to be choice. I believe that I believe in the in the marketplace of ideas, I think that's a good thing. But having said that we better figure out where we can work together on some things, right? The days are coming quickly, that I think we're going to need each other and if we can't, if we can't even do a little bit of business together. We're we're not gonna, we have very little chance of hanging together in my estimation. I think we have to where we can work together. And, and this was one place where I saw, okay. I think this could be one of those things, right? And so my hopes were is that you know people can go on here. They could find Drew Barney's books, which we got all of them. Also Kevin Krause book which we got all of them as well as Nate Richardson and other guys that you're going to recognize and this is just in its infancy.

3:35:33 So the announcements going out. Now that hey if you if you make art Can just up with an email, we'll put your stuff up there. If you make clothing, hit us up, you know, fundamentalist have some pretty specific clothing needs, right? I mean, we look, we wear the long Army, right? So, it would be nice to be able to find a shirt. That's maybe not plaid. I'm just saying that's my hopes one day, um, and and be able to, to, you know, have our own just have our own stuff. The other thing I want you to address is I am taking very little money off of this. I am keeping a little bit just to keep the lights on to pay, try to pay Corey and Joni try to get something working and in that direction, just keep the lights on.

3:36:24 So, I broke it down and I talked to Kevin crowd about this, because, you know, I felt like Kevin would be in the know he sells books, right? He sells paper, that's what he does. And Kevin's when I approached Kevin about this, he's like, well how much are you taking? I was like somewhere between three to four percent of every sale. And he's like that's way too low and I'm like, you know what, I would rather have people on the site buying stuff from other people. Then me rack up my, my banking account, that's not what this is for. I have other ways of doing that, this is not that. So, rest assured, I am not getting rich off and anybody, right?

3:37:05 I've done this on a shoe budget. You guys have helped me out of the kindness to your hearts. This is just about getting us to start being able to, to share whatever talent you have. That in the way of of goods and services and be able to share that with other Mormons is what the thrust is here. But I apologize for that. Little bit of a side tangent, but I wanted to get that out there I am. This is not me trying to make money off of this. And I'm not trying to, to just put everybody under one banner. I like having different groups, I like having Independence and I'm not trying to get rid of that. I'm just trying to get us all where we can work a little closer together and just do some business together.

3:37:51 Right. Right. So as as I approached you guys with this with this project like what was the hardest part of this whole thing? Oh, just trying to get the biography from everybody. I felt like just trying to understand where everybody's coming from and what the Their story and and trying to share their story in a way that you know, really fits. That really highlights like your gift. The highlights Ogden crowds gift, Kevin crowds, gift Drew Brioni, spending the time to, you know, articulate those kind of stories. So I that's kind of the biggest challenge. So I'm hopeful that everyone who comes to this and has some new products, or ebooks or art or Unholy here in the near future. You are services that you provide. I really would love to have great photos and kind of a little start on a bio, you can kind of look at, you know, how I've written everything up for for everyone else on the website.

3:38:51 I know what, let's let's take a look at some some that up for yourself and then I can kind of edit and and help a bit of the story along. Absolutely, all of these people, I can vouch for except that guy that guy, You're Gonna Want to the others. I can totally vouch for So like if we just click click on Drew Brian here. Right. Yeah. Let's click on that. And for those not not watching and just listening what you see is a picture Drew here and it's got a little short little bio here on on what he who he is and what he's done, it name some of his more popular books and then if you just keep scrolling down, you're gonna see everyone of his books up here. That that is available and you can just click on those and it's going to take you right to the link on where to buy him so you don't have to search anymore, you don't have to go. You don't have to Google's name then go to his Amazon page and then filter through.

3:39:54 It's all right here. You can just go there. 1830. Mercantile, dot org, you can see a picture of the book, a little description. and, You're you're able just to go ahead click buy now and it's going to take you right to their to your Amazon cart and let you get what you need to do there. So that's that's pretty much it but even that was it was kind of a task, right? Because you guys had to go round up all of those bios and all those other things. Yep. Yep, it's definitely quite a project when it gets to the element and she's trying to say it, you know, in a way that's very high professionalism where it really just tells the story. Most folks that's not their skill set. So it's actually what time thinking about ourselves. Oh yeah that's even harder are usually a little bit more reserved or you know we we've been told our whole life, you know like oh you know you're not supposed to brag, you're not supposed to brag, you know.

3:40:49 So I think I think people have a hard time. Saying. Hey, I'm good at this. Yeah. And right if we read this good scriptures, you know we're we're we all have talents and gifts and we're supposed to use them and if we don't use them then, You know. We're just not serving our Heavenly Fathers as much as we can. And, you know, I look at these books here, you know, by Drew, I want to read all of them. I want to read every single one of, you know, Ogden crowds books. I've read, you know, several from each of them. Now at this point and I'm just even more excited to read more because it's really helping me connect. The dots like I was saying on, you know, what's happened in history church history and you know the doctrines, the deeper doctrines that are just wonderful that bring us on our relationship to our Heavenly Father, even stronger that help us in that direction. You just Smith says, you know, you only get saved as much as you have the knowledge, you know, the the inside, you know, a man can only be as good as he knows how to be really. Is is a better, right?

3:41:53 Yeah. Absolutely, you know, and to go along with this this. Like I said, this, this site isn't its infancy, but there's going to be other things added to this, right? And I want to go over a couple of those. So the free resources, Right here. We got to play Under free resources. There's listening and learn, right? So here you can. Come on here and find my podcast, right? And you can just click there and it's going to take you right to where you need to be. Um, right to the website, you're able to go here, you're off and running. I've already thrown Jeff Aldridge's YouTube channel up there. You guys have already got that loaded up. Alright and look I am, you know, the the fundamentals class that Taylor Smith teaches is on there. These are quick links, this is someplace. I want people to go and not have to go search for every little thing that's Mormon, fundamentalist, or conservative, conservative Mormon, or whatever it is. I just want it to be in one place where people can go and grab it and it looks like it's it's doing what it's supposed to the, the other One that will end up putting up here is events, right?

3:43:08 I'm not going to say a whole lot about that right now, but yeah, you guys should stay tuned. That's all I'm gonna say. Um, but there will be an events page where events will be posted there. There's just there's there's a lot here for for for someone to come for, you know, browse through. You can do this from the privacy of your own home, right? There's there you know if you're still in the look let's face it. If you are an active Mormon LDS, folks, let me, let me rephrase that. If you're active LDS, you may not want to go ask around your word where you can get the latest copy of, you know, Drew Barney's book. You might get an eyebrow or two raised when the bishop Googles who drew Briny is?

3:43:52 So this is someplace where again, it's really easy to do, you just come you grab what you need and you get on with your life. So um so that was the biggest challenge for you. Corey, will you guys was just getting the The, the BIOS together. Yes, very much. So that took the most time Gotcha. Gotcha. So as this was coming together, did you guys feel like it came together? Like did you did you feel like the spirit helped you out at all? As you were putting this together? We're their thing. Yeah. Happy that you didn't see before. Like if you were just I don't know. Doing a project for I don't know, Bill's bacon or whatever.

3:44:36 Yeah, I think the logo too. You know, went through a couple of revisions as well. Yeah. And I think it was really into Grab onto Moroni as a symbol of Mormons. Yep. Yep. And yeah. Good. No, we use it. Now since it's not the LDS church is official logo. So Right. Oh well. Why not? No, I thought I thought the logo turned out. Great guys. I really do. Well, my thoughts are, you know? it's always been a Teaching in a principal and a belief of the LDS church you know, to create Zion at some point and it's like well that hasn't been the big priority for the church.

3:45:27 Some people online are criticizing. Oh the church has 300 billion dollars. When are they going to do anything about that? And I'm like, well you know the church has their own priorities. I don't know where all of their funds are going. Somebody broke it down to what they have. 16,000 dollars for every member and yes that could last a long time. And and from my standpoint exactly. I was gonna say 16,000 probably wouldn't not last too long for most of us and what would that build? You know, if you were building a full City with 16,000 dollars, go how far to do doing that and you know, a lot of good points. Um people kind of arguing the whole point of what to do with Zion and from my standpoint. I'm like well as members of the LDS church and unbelievers and I just kind of want to put it more towards Believers in the restoration, we we see things almost completely the same. You know, almost all of our beliefs are the same. And there were just arguing about a few other little points of Doctrine.

3:46:33 And, and that's unfortunate. If we can't get together and help each other on all of the other areas that we do, believe in, we believe in Joseph Smith, we believe in Brigham, Young's teachings, my thought is, you know, just kind of creating, you know, a little place of of unity where people can get together and help each other Prosper kind of like Zion you know, where there is no poor Among Us where we're helping each other financially and with other people's talents, you know what they're good at. The things that kind of came to mind as I was working on. This was how we are very divided and listening to the podcast arguments, were some of the, the church even became persecuted tutorial towards those who have practiced poly, it's like, well, this was part of the church doctrine. How could you ever be that person? That's, that's trying to go after somebody that believes what was just recently taught that makes no sense to me, seems the opposite of being a Christian to do that. Especially in line of the fact that What Makes You A god. What makes you like your heavenly parents if it's not having lots of children.

3:47:45 So that should be kind of like a sacred belief and tenant at the top of of the belief system. For anyone who believes in the restoration is, Being parents and marriage and family and that kind of a thing that should be at the top of our church structure and unbelief. And anyone who wants more of that, you might not want to be the one, casting, the stone in that department. If there's one thing to overlook, I would think that would be it. Sure. So that kind of a Unity if you will. And, you know, we've kind of shared in our bio, a few of my thoughts on the topic, you know, did in our savior say that those who are with us, Believers in the restoration are not against us.

3:48:32 That's Matthew 12:30, and we're two are or, or more or gathering. In my name, I will be in the midst of them, Matthew 18:20, you know, and kind of like, you know, share this thought here as active, Les members, fundamentalist, and other believers in the restoration, we can accomplish a thousand times more if we work together. To make this world a better place. And that's why we're supporting this is because, you know, we don't have to have all of the same beliefs as a group. But We believe in almost all the same things. Why don't we support each other where we can and do our best to build Zion up? In a world of people who are so critical of almost all of our beliefs, you know, where where the odd ducks in the world. If we can't stick together on this, in some small little website, kind of way, we're really missing some opportunities now.

3:49:24 Look, the world is going to be against, probably all of us at some point, you know? And I'm pretty sure The LDS church itself gets a lot of pressure. Or even. Where they stand. There's a lot of pressure. Yeah, totally, you know, like you said it's, it's like we've got to learn how to work together to prepare for the future, whatever it brings. And I think we need to share our gifts and you know, we've got some big plans are for some things coming up, too, so You know, yeah. We're in the middle of lots of good things. So, you know, how many fathers kept me here on this planet longer so that I can make a difference in the world and just one of those ways I want to do it, you know. So absolutely.

3:50:14 Teaching the gospel, um, helping to promote Health Products, teaching people some marketing skills, teaching them how to have help their children. Give them better brains and I've got to give you a shout out Dave. So when Corey said you're just asking like for your four percent, I was like, what? Because I was acting like what? I I just was like shocked, what? No, no what do you say? I I didn't hear what you said, Johnny. What do you say when When Corey told me that you're just asking like three or four percent for your commission, for on the sales of each book? I was pretty shocked because the standard in marketing is actually more like 25%.

3:50:59 So you know to give him more of a frame of reference. It's like, well, that is very low. So I just wanted to keep the lights on, on the website. That's all I wanted to do. I don't want anybody anybody's money. I just want to want to want to keep the lights on on this thing so that the the community at large right fundamentalist conservative LDS, they can just go and get what they need without Without having to jump through those hurdles. See other thing that I, that I had heard and actually talked to a guy, who's, who's the main streamer, who wanted to publish a book through Deseret Book, that is a Herculean task. To get your book into desert book and half the time by the time it gets there from why I understand. It doesn't really resemble what you first put out right. Because and look I want to say I get it right. Desert book is a is an auxiliary of the church, right? So they're going to have curate the message that goes out, I get that but I don't think the process should be as hard as what it is, right?

3:52:09 And so anybody who I feel like, you know, I I just wonder how much are we missing out on because someone can't just go publish the book and a place where Mormons are going to get their eyes on it, right? And so, you know, this is the call going out, right? If you have, if you have a book that you have struggled to get published, Talk to us. I'll get I'll get it up. I'll put it up there. Um, Yeah, you make art, you take pictures, let we'll put it up there, you make music, and you can't break into the big scene. You can come here and we will put it up here and, you know, write down the clothing. If someone wants to start making clothing. I'm dialed in.

3:52:50 I'm there for it. So um, I really don't want anyone's money. I just want to keep the lights on on the website, if it's a value to people, if not, if in a year we've gotten absolutely nothing. Then we're shutting it down but this is this, this isn't for me to make any money off of really I you as Joanie said, It's a fairly small number right on on a, on a four forty dollar book order. I'm gonna make right around what two or three bucks? I mean, like it is what it is. It's just enough. So I can get you guys paid a little bit get and keep the subscription going.

3:53:34 So that's that's about it. But um, is there anything I missed on the website that you guys wanted to go over? Well I just think it's kind of just a quick little intro on our on our side we can kind of go to our page like meet the creators behind the website. We kind of share a little bit about ourselves and kind of the plans that we have moving forward and that can be kind of a little introduction to what it is that we're doing. So go to your bio here. Yeah. And just Okay, we've got a few things going on. So if anything resonates with anyone, you know, it's more of that. And I told Corey, I'm like, I feel like we're using up to a thrill estate, but, of course not shy.

3:54:18 He's gonna tell you everything. He's up to and, and, you know, so right here, wanna have Joni have a little highlight on her book. Okay, so I'm almost you wrote a book, Johnny. Um, we are almost finished with the book. I'm doing the last editing for it and that's what we kind of have ourselves up on the website, here me to creators where we're kind of sharing about our book and kind of what we do is marketers and I'm a little bit kind of a little bit of a bio about us and then also a little bit of a call to, you know, come help us out on. Some of the projects we're working on so he's years, you know, I really did want to just be a mom so it's right there.

3:54:59 The building better brains with games, you got it right there. So um, you know, so I I really did want to just have a gaggle children and homeschool and that was one life handed to me. So, you know, after we had a miscarriage, it's like well, you know what? I'm not gonna just like, sit in my bedroom and cry about this. I'm going to do something. And so, I started writing down some of the things I learned teaching and other things. And it's the main idea is not children are so much smarter than we realized and the brain is a muscle. And Too much. Unschooling has led to this idea that academics and play are kind of compartmentalized as two separate things.

3:55:46 And through teaching, I learned how to teach young children without attention spans, and that's actually really easy. Because, you know, there's that quote from Aristotle that says, you know, give me a child from 0 to 7 and I'll show you the man. And I've heard that quote possibly misrepresented as being used by, like, it was either Mao or the other one of the other communist China you know China communist saying that he had children from 0 to 7 then he would Be able to pretty much destroy the family in a negative way. You know that if if we had children from 0 to 7 and the fascinating thing is what Aristotle and the science didn't know at the time is that from 0 to 7?

3:56:36 The brain is actually growing really, really fast and so young kids are able to pick up on things really quickly, but because they can't don't have the dexterity to hold a pencil. Don't have the attention span to sit still, we think they can't learn, but that's not true at all. They just learn at a faster pace and they have shorter attention spans and so I'm teaching games that don't require for the majority of them, their memorization memorization math and reading critical thinking kind of games that you could do that are more like Hands-On And you could do it with a group of kids of any ages, but even your, you know, like you're three or five year old. Some of them are very age appropriate that they could catch on and it would prepare them for you know, higher, mathematical Concepts that they're going to be introduced to down the road.

3:57:29 So you know I was like well I have All of these things that I've learned and I picked up, you know, like I've taken parenting courses and stuff like that in anticipation for the, you know, mother that I never got to be really. And so I was like you know what, I'm gonna put it in a box. So this is been a two-year ongoing project and Cory's been editing it and so it's not quite ready for almost there. We're almost there. So that's my project. So hopefully it is helpful to parents that like you said we'll find out if it if it is. She really fun inside and the idea behind it is you know create little Geniuses with your children, you know what does it take to create a genius?

3:58:14 Um, there are a lot of studies out the, you know, are coming out now that are showing So many tips for parents on how to help their child, learn at a different level for me. My dad always bought me, lots of books. So even four and five, he was buying me all the books that I wanted to read that helped so much. You know, by the time I was six, I was reading college level books, and loving it. And and I just see so many children now who were six or seven or eight, who don't love reading and that just breaks my heart because there's so much you can learn you know you could just get a book on almost anything and it's just thrilling. You can learn about almost any subject and get to know all kinds of brilliant people's minds by having a book that you can read about them. Anyway.

3:59:03 Um you know you you bring up something that's kind of important here, right? I just read it. Disturbing fact. Oh I want to say it was two or three months ago where like most high schoolers now can't read in the third person. And comprehending, right? And that's a problem, especially when you consider the scriptures are largely written from a third person point of view and that will that's that's an issue, right? So this idea of of learning a little bit better, I think is a good thing and look full disclosure.

3:59:45 I, I look at education and it is one of the few places that is really lacking, right? We are doing it, largely the same way we did it in the 1800s, right? Despite all the technological advances. It's the one profession that has stayed really kind of static in its model. And I think that needs to to be challenged a little bit because I'm not sure that that is necessarily the healthiest thing for us to be doing for our kids, it would be like It'd be like trying to use a horse and buggy today to get around, right? You could do it but it's not great. Why would you late?

4:00:28 Why would you write? I mean, there's some stuff there to consider, right? You want to share the cocoa power projects? Um yeah let's do that. I share someone of my testimony here a little bit more too and just some of the things just little facts about me you know? And then how you know I helped Pro bar become this multi-million dollar success story. And then kind of about this year's project is cocoa. Power for athletes that it's even better than what was done with Pro bar because it's organic Ron, sprouted. And these are some of the things that were kind of asking for assistance with from others in the community because really I just want to It. I want everyone to be healthy.

4:01:14 I just hate seeing people struggle with the kind of health challenges that they are. I know there's answers for almost everyone. I mean, you in the DNC, you know, it says that those who aren't appointed unto death and they have the face to be healed, can be healed and part of what Joseph Smith says. It's just so profound with our our religion is Joseph Smith says, you know, if whenever you have the spirit anyone who has the spirit has the spirit all so of Prophecy and Revelation. So the spirit comes to guide each of us in our choices and what we eat and what we do during our day and how we interact with others.

4:01:54 If we are feeling the spirit in our life, we'll be guided. So I felt the last little while. I've had this frustration in my heart about what happened with probar, the I am not that I didn't get to get these new products out with probar. And I've just felt okay well it's been quite a few years. Now Pro bar has well over 100 employees working for them. Multi-million dollars have come in. It was my idea that I helped to get off the ground and it's just a fantastic product. Best taste and nutrition of any of the bars that have been done at that point. And now there are dozens of products that are very good, that just were not available back then. and, The last little while I've just seen. There are still so much room for better products that are out there.

4:02:51 And I've been kind of stunned by this new Cold Ground, cold stone ground. Almond butter, that we have got from a friend here, he created a system. He actually put the signs. He designed the, the Grinders himself so that they wouldn't heat up the almonds, which all of the almonds I've ever gotten in the health food store in the stores have have been fairly rancid and the metal grinding process heats up the oils so much so that it goes bad quickly. And does not have all the nutritional qualities that he is has in his stone ground.

4:03:31 Oh, just almond butter, and it's crazy. It's so much tastier. So to give you an example of the quality, you know, the your traditional nut Butters are are produced in just like a couple of hours, but because they're grinding it really fast and heating it up. It's actually a cooked food and, you know, store shelf life and things like that. Chances are most of your nut. Butters are probably rancid by the time, you even buy them. But with what he's doing, he spends like it's a four-day grinding problem. So it literally just is so slow. It never gets heated and the room, everything is cold, it's it's chilled, so that it never gets very hot in there, like sprouted food and it is super tasty.

4:04:18 I had no idea the difference. And when I had this product from him, I just was kind of speechless. I literally did not believe that this was even possible, and I just was like, kind of shaking my head, like, wow, what are the odds of me running into this guy here in a small town here in in Arizona? And then he had no interest in doing really promotionals with this. And I just ended up feeling the spirit, just like you need to do this Quarry, people need to eat healthier food. You need to eat healthier food, you've been dealing with covid all this time. Find a way to make this work and the other really fun element is chocolate. He is also done this with chocolate and you can imagine if the almond butter is amazing, his chocolate.

4:05:04 Without it being heated up, is on another level and who doesn't like chocolate and chocolate has so much magnesium in it. That does 300 physical body processes. The absorption absorption would have to be much higher with this. I haven't tested it enough, you know, on long bike rides because I'm just not super capable. I've only been up to about an hour a day on my bike at this point but I always was testing different products while I was doing a lot of these long distance training and and cycling and I can tell you some of the stuff that we've been coming up with for for our new products with cocoa power at 10. Like I've never seen anything that's good. I have had Joni testing it as well.

4:05:48 Big change, better, energy longer lasting energy, very good absorption. Very digestible. On The Taste is a 10 like everyone that we've given it to is like yeah this is great. And Kelly. Who tried this? Absolutely impressed with with it says, I've had people hand me several hundred different samples of new products to look at over the decade. They said and he just said this is Awesome. What you have? This is a big winner and I agree. I know the spirits kind of been guiding and directing this whole thing and and this is you know multi-million dollar project for so many people who are still in the lots of State. Yeah, we're I'm just getting things together as far as what it's going to take to put all this together. All there's a small list on the website there. If you're excited about that, better goal would be to have the manufacturing site in Missouri in Missouri. Yeah, we want it there with the community of other believers and folks were land is fairly inexpensive and there's lots of rain you know, here in Arizona it's just like there's so many challenges with water here.

4:07:00 Not if we're gonna have, we're gonna start growing our own food and have this manufacturing site, then Missouri really is. Really is a Haven. So it's not about. If you can grow something in Missouri, it's about. If you can keep the weeds and the Barnes is what I've discovered. He'll grow. Like, that's not the problem. The problem is is getting a harvest because we'd either come up and it's like, look, I'm used to having a garden, right? Um, And I thought, I knew what weeding was and then I came to Missouri and I'm like, oh no, this is a life and death, struggle against the weeds, for the rest of my life. But know that is one of the benefits water is plentiful and so is.

4:07:44 So is the ability to grow? Look, that's a huge thing, right? Um, so often in the Doctrine and Covenants, we focus a lot on the prohibitions and we should take note of that, right? But I'm more I'm more interested in the In what it prescribes right? Which is Whole Foods, right? That what I'm really there and I'm a guy who look. I I made that change. I'll say about it about a year and a half ago is when I really well, maybe closer to years ago where I really made the changes start eating Whole Foods, right? And and what that is, is that's food. That's just not processed to death, right? Um, You know, they called the gut the second brain, right? Because so much of your immune system comes out of your gut, so much everything.

4:08:36 Tends to come out of your gut. And I think our food supply is severely tainted and if that's the case, we're going to have a hard time. Doing the things we need to do, if we're, if we're nutrient deficient and quite frankly, I think the amount of Carson Carson engines that are in there. Now, that sort of thing is just devastating. And when when I went to a Whole Foods diet, It was it was a change like the thing I did not anticipate was how badly I craved the junk until it was gone, right? It was almost like a detox kind of a thing. I haven't been able to prove it yet but I don't think that they're putting in addictive substances necessarily but I do think that those substances they are putting in their Let me raise this.

4:09:25 I don't think they're knowingly, putting addictive, material in there, but they are, they they are never mind. I stand corrected, I'm done. Okay. Um, oh, I can get on that topic with you another time because that's actually yeah, my friend that I did Pro bar with, he was a, you know, an activist for Healthy nutrition and kind of the entire industry for food labeling laws was done by my, my friend and his aunt. Okay? So there were some things that I've kind of been shared that have been shared with me that a lot of people don't know, and it's, it's a fascinating topic of what goes on in the food industry that I can kind of go on a length for hours on. And so, that's just a whole other topic, we can go into, but from a health standpoint. Yeah, there's a lot of things we need to be much more aware of and I don't eat, you know, 95% of what they sell in the store, because I don't want that in my body. It didn't help me in my teens as an athlete. Well, before covid, I could feel the difference, you know, I actually used to chart, I used to chart, you know, my exercise and my training routine and how much I would lift each day. And then all I monitor kind of what I would eat. And I went to bed at night so like from A discipline stamp Point.

4:10:41 Those are some of the things that I just have on lock, you know, I as a competitive gymnast, you know, where I was training, you know, five hours a day at the gym for six days a week for, you know, years and literally Decades of half of that time. like, If my mom always said, hey core, you can do anything you want in life. If you put this kind of determination into it that you have it, the gym and I was like, you know, you're right. I think anyone can have the greatest relationship with their father and have them if they just Want it that bad if you just decide right now. Dang it my, Nothing Else Matters. And I want to have a great conversation with my heavenly father. And I have this question, I need this answer to Heavenly father's.

4:11:27 Absolutely gonna You know, open the heavens and give you Impressions and and just flowed into your mind all kinds of thoughts and love from him because you know, if he loves me the way that he did and how he answered my prayers, I'm gonna kind of shared with, you know, the other day. Oh, I know he loves you. I was a brat teenager and he came to visit me the way he did. Change my heart and my life and, you know, they say, oh, you know, look at someone's fruits, if you know what, What they're about. What? What are their fruits? Did it change their soul? Their heart? Do they love other people more? Um, whatever happened with covid for me? I don't know.

4:12:08 I feel like it definitely reset me and gave me. I would say a stronger desire. I'm a greater appreciation for each day that I'm in this earth. It's like, wow, I survived something that just is kind of Beyond Comprehension, really mentally, just kind of review the tapes in my mind as far as what happened and how that felt just grateful for that. I'm so grateful for my wife and to be married, to someone who loves me so much, that she would pray hours and hours every day for my welfare and they just it touches my heart so much. And just brings a lot of joy to me. And, you know, I read my picture, go blessing and you know, hey you're going to have kids and all that and those impressions of having little Megan and Nathan in our life.

4:12:52 It's like I just gives me a lot of joy and then to have a home and, and to raise our children in that people feel the love just when they come in your home I think that's what all of us should strive for is to develop that kind of character in our life to have that. And ever since I've had that experience, he'll come on. I've been driven to do more with my life than I than I did things. I never would have imagined, you know, I just sat there really one day after having that he'll come our experience and I just thought, what are the hardest things I could ever do in life? What are the biggest challenges? Because I wanted to have a challenge. I wanted to do something, really extra hard and I thought Martial arts.

4:13:35 That's pretty hard. Plus it's pretty, you know, bad Aid. Somebody's really tough ballet. That's really hard and gymnastics and I started training all of those three things and the it kept me out of trouble. I didn't go back to my friends who were troublemakers and we like to drink and party and and trash on the church and trash on themselves, they weren't happy with themselves. You know, my best friend had killed himself and a lot of my other friends felt the same way. Um, they they were not touched in their hearts, but you see so many people who are in the LDS church, who go to church every Sunday, they have a really had a change of heart either.

4:14:19 And I'm sure there's plenty in the fundamentalists organizations that have grown up around the gospel that probably haven't had that Mighty change of heart or they have and they don't feel it today. And so hopefully we can all support each other and and building that fire with them and just that reminder and hopefully, you know, my comments on this and just my experience will kind of like that fire and in here heart and and all the listeners in here that they will have. A little greater faith and little more trust that. Hey, you know what, you're right that that Corey and Joni guy. Yeah, you know, maybe I can have that experience myself. Maybe I can have more of those answers that I'm needing and craving right now in my life because I'm having a tough Challenge.

4:15:02 And oh, gosh, everyone, I know has challenges at some point in their life if it's not right now and life is awesome. I'm I'm glad I would be awesome to hear that from anyone and yet. So many people are just in the midst of tragedy or challenges that they need to feel the spirit so badly in their life and so much more in their life because of the hurt that they have inside. And And I'm hopeful that, you know, this website can be something that kind of inspires us. All gives us some more the answers, you know, in a world of every time I get on Facebook, it just kind of breaks my heart that people are. Arguing the gospel and so much anti-mormon rhetoric. I just sure.

4:15:49 It's a bit much. It's a bit much for all of us and we need to have a place where we can go and feel supported by others and have a place to go where we can have those conversations. Like, Taylor's class on the gospel that he just started. Those are have been wonderful. I know there's going to be so much more as other people kind of learn about this and kind of join join the party here with us. Yep. Yep. Absolutely, no, that's good stuff. Um, Gosh, I feel like that was just a good, a good wrap-up of what we've talked about Joni. Is there anything else you want to talk about? Know, that's I've said, all I say we, we do marketing and we have, you know, kind of links to our website and to Cocoa power and I'll just tell you what, you know, spend some time there we can chat about that. Another time.

4:16:36 I feel like We've already shared so much about us as people I wanted to share with you guys a bunch of photos of the places. I grew up and some things like that, I don't know. You can do a screen share real quick if you want or I can I have some show notes and things that I kind of want to share as well. The articles that I find that have helped me that I try to read every year to kind of help me deal with some of the challenges that I've had that have been significant and Yeah maybe. Um but there are several several topics like that that have just been profound in my life that I feel like Carpet perspective on things, you know, we're in the middle of a lot, you know, we teach psychology of marketing, you know, the positive present personal how that can change your thinking and and make you tons more in business, literally hundreds of thousands.

4:17:33 If you have a large business and Joni's sharing her book on, you know, building better brains and little genius children were promoting cocoa power which you know, has Energy by kind of a bar for athletes, and, of course, we do marketing and some things like that. And then we're just trying to promote, you know, Ogden crowd, and Drew Bryan's books and so many others of you would have Excellent books and, and skills and and things that we can add to the website and promote you as well, which is really what I'm hopeful for that, we can all kind of work together to, you know, create that design.

4:18:14 And Hopefully soon a community with hundreds and hundreds of thousands of people of Believers, you know? That's that's what I see. You know, moving forward. Absolutely. We'll have to get you back on for the rest of that. I definitely am interested in doing that. So we'll have to we'll have to jump back on. But there's a standing rule you've been one on one, you got standing invitation to come back, so don't don't feel like you're, you're you need, you need me to call you first. You can just pick up the phone and go. Hey, I'm ready. What's your number? I know where to find. You know where to find me. We've worked close enough together. Now, on this project, that That.

4:18:54 Yeah I'll answer my phone or shortly thereafter. I'd like to say always on time when it rings I'll pick up but inevitably, I'm always on the phone. So Um, no, but dude, good stuff, guys. I appreciate you being on. I appreciate all the work you put in to that website. So yeah. Um, we'll put some links in there for for your other project there. You're, you're Marketing company and we'll put it up there in the show notes and people can go check that out. All right, our little bio has some of those links already on us. So if someone wants to find out, we're really easy to find. And then I've tried to do that with everybody as well, because Kevin crowd. You need to go over to his his little website and and read the free versions that he's making available of Ogden crowds books. If you don't have the funds for a go, go, get them. And also, others have made his audios available. So, for free, so you can go and listen to the audio. If you're busy and you're driving in your car from YouTube and Andrew briney's costly riding new books. And he's getting a bunch of them up and we'll have PDFs for everyone as well as well as some better versions of the audio's because I absolutely love listening to audios at two times speed and I know that that I absorb so much more information sometimes when I do that.

4:20:14 So I feel like this is just kind of the start of kind of getting the basic idea of just a few people up there and kind of the basic idea of the BIOS. I did try to write neat several emails so he could send me more of a bio for him. And I absolutely want that for everyone else so we can just make this professional and and kind of Scents to your business and just what it is that you're doing just, you know, highlight everybody here because we all have gifts that are just fantastic and we can support each other that way. Absolutely. Thanks for thanks for having us on Dave. No, thank you guys. I appreciate I appreciate everything you've done. I really do so well. It's uh yeah.

4:20:56 Keep talking. Well, I'm sure we'll get you back on. Yeah. And hopefully I'll be healed up even more so and have, you know, sharply. So absolutely looking forward to some updates on that. And my lifting, I want four or 500 pounds up this year on my squad. So that's the goalies. Nice out of kid. Awesome. Hang out for five minutes. All right. All right, all right. Bye everybody.