Episode #201: The Spiritual Implications Of The Charlie Kirk Assassination W/Jeff Alldredge

0:00 Hey everybody, just a quick announcement before we jump into this episode. If you remember about 3 weeks ago, I had Justin Frankamon and we talked about a, a new organization that's being launched a, a ministry for, for Mormons who find themselves disaffected, whether that's from the LDS church or you're just an independent or you're just like, gosh, I, I just don't know where to go. This is a place where you can go. And if you're you're an LDS member and you just want to know what it's like to to see a fundamentalist meeting, if you want to learn more about fundamentalist doctrine, those old school doctrines, this is a place where you can go. You can be completely anonymous if you'd like.

0:41 And it's it's super easy. It's super low stress. All you got to do is just login. So how you do that as you go to mormonlegacy.org. I'm going to go ahead and I'm going to put this website address in the show notes of this episode. You just paste that into your browser, hit search, and then you'll you'll land on this landing page. Just Scroll down to the very bottom. This right here, second Saturday Sacrament, 3:00 PM mountain Standard Time. Just click on that. That's going to take you straight to the zoom link. You you can just roll right from there. You just hit join and you're you're ready to go. You can be completely anonymous. This is all from the comfort of your home.

1:22 So if this is something you're interested in, you want to learn about some some old school doctrine, you want to see what a fundamentalist meeting looks like. This is a chance for you to kind of check it out and and and get your get your feet on the ground, so to speak. So again, that's Mormon legacy.org. It's going to be in this episode show notes. Click that link down there. It says second Saturday sacrament meeting and it'll take you right there. Now on to the show. The you're listening to the Mormon Renegade podcast. Jeff, how's it going, man?

2:31 It's it's, it's a going, it's been a been a pretty, you know, pretty somber couple of days to be honest, but it's a going. Yeah, no, it sure has been a solemn, somber couple of days. I'm going to tell the story of how you and I got on here tonight. So but I want, I want to go back and reframe this a little bit. And, and look, folks, tonight we're going to talk about some heady stuff. And, and a lot of it's going to have to do with what happened to Charlie Kirk out there in Utah. And, and I would, I would probably say just use some discretion with your young children. We're going to do our best not to make this graphic by any stretch of the imagination, but it is going to be a frank and honest conversation because I feel like it has to be had and this has some deep spiritual ramifications. But I want to talk about how Jeff and I got on this podcast tonight because this was kind of spur of the moment. It's been a weird week, and it started on Wednesday when when the assassination happened.

3:52 And look, I knew who Charlie Kirk was. But Jeff, you're probably like me. You knew who he was. You enjoyed some of his videos, but you weren't following him, right? You weren't following him on Facebook. I wasn't following him on Facebook. I wasn't following him on X or Instagram or any of those things. What is Face Dave? I'm sorry, I don't have Facebook, but I I I'm aware of Charlie Kirk. I like the stuff I'd seen, but no, I didn't follow him. Yeah. Yeah, and, and I was the same way. And but when, when the assassination happened, it hit hard, right? Like it hit me really hard.

4:37 I remember like I sat in my office and I kind of wept and and I'm not a guy who's given over to could that very easily. And so that night I I jumped on a podcast with Adam Hosey because my first fear was that that people were going to lash back out, right. And we can't lash out because if we do, we end up we lose in the end. If we do that, they will. That is the excuse that the other side wants to come down from on high and take from us all of our rights and and and responsibilities.

5:23 And I thought, OK, that's done. I can move on now, but the Lord wouldn't leave him. Leave me alone about it. And in my in my prayers, I kept feeling the Lord say, you're not looking deep enough. Go back, go back and look. So instantly I thought he was talking about maybe some of the videos, right? Not necessarily an assassination, but maybe, maybe there was something else important that was said there. And it wasn't until I had put all these pieces together, and I'm not going to spoil it right here. And it was kind of on the surface, kind of a crazy idea, right?

6:03 Or at least I felt like it was crazy. And Jeff called me last night and I couldn't take the call because I was in a meeting and did did you call me this morning or did I call you Jeff? No, I called you this morning. Yeah, you called me back and you said hey, there's something I want to bounce, bounce off you. And I said well, hold on. But anyway, Jeff, Jeff called me this morning and he said, hey, I got something I want to bounce, bounce off you an idea. And I said, well, I got want to want to bounce off you, but let me get mine out since I'm the weaker mentally and then most liable to forget. And so I bounced. I bounced my idea off you, Jeff. And to my surprise, you said that's exactly why I'm calling you right?

6:50 Like, we had pretty much the same idea verbatim while you're in South Dakota and I'm in Missouri. Pretty much, Yep. Hadn't talked about it or anything else, but as soon as soon as I put all these pieces together, I had a little more peace and I could sleep at night. But nonetheless, I think there's something here and it's something great, very, very important, and it has to do a little bit with profits. And so that's what we're going to talk about tonight. We're going to talk about Charlie Kirk profits and how this all fits into to Mormonism at large, because I think there's some deep spiritual significance to these things.

7:36 Now, I'm not going to point a lot of those out because I'm going to be honest with you. You need to come to some of those on your own. I'm not going to be here to tell you what you should think or what you should believe. That's not that's not me. And so, but we are going to to to make to dive in deep here. So Jeff, do you want to start off by by telling us kind of? The. The theory both you and I have come up with independently halfway across the country from each other. You know, I'll, I'll tell my side of that story and it'll just kind of blend with what you just introduced.

8:18 You know, I when, when I found out I had a brother-in-law text me and say Charlie Kirk just got shot at UVU and that, that just kind of blows my mind because it, it hits close to home those big, those big deals. And even though I didn't know Charlie, you know, I, I felt a certain kinship because his mission and the things that he proclaims, you know, are, are pretty close to, to my heart anyway. But just the fact that he was, you know, shot. And at that time, they didn't know that that he was dead or that he was going to die. Just it was just fresh. And a couple weeks ago, I literally was down in Salt Lake working or in actually an Orem. And I drove around there.

9:05 Matter of fact, they actually found the weapon about four doors down from my boss's house. And you know, so all this stuff is just just pretty close to home. But it had the same effect to me that you had. I was, I was working outside. I was down at my sawmill and by myself. And it just brought me to tears. And I, I literally had to turn off the mill and just sit there for a minute and, and at one point over the course of the next 20 or 30 minutes, I was just on my knees, just recognized. It wasn't in sadness for, for Charlie because he was a dear friend or, or my brother or, or somebody I went to high school with.

9:48 It was from the simple act that had happened for the evil and the, the, the forces of our world that had seemed to reach out and make it very profound accusation against truth. You know, when evil gets to the point where where it has to snuff out the life of a person because it's afraid of what they're saying, then we as, as followers, if that has anything to do with our religion or the God we believe in, had better stand up and take notice. And so over the next day, you know, as I 24 hours, as I thought about that and I started just kind of putting together the similarities, I thought, well, what was he killed for? Jeff, Jeff, Jeff, before you move on, I got to ask the question, were you, were you kind of shocked too that you were shook as as as much as you were? I, it, it affected me in a way that was, I wasn't shocked because there's a lot of stuff going on in our world that, that just hits, you know, it seems that things are amplifying. But this was like, you know, years ago, I can't remember how many years ago, there was a there was an attack on multiple families of fundamentalists living in Mexico by the cartel. Right, I remember that.

11:13 Where they where they massacred them. And I was actually in Utah at the same thing, working away from the family or for a week or so, and it put me right on the floor. I didn't know these people, but I felt like they were family simply because we had a common belief of some of, of some of some, you know, they, they were fundamentalists and they were massacred. And it just put me on for 1/2 hour in a, in a house that was vacated that I was just doing a bunch of work on. And luckily I was the only guy there. And I just wept for for quite some time, very overcome with the, the, the devastating reality that there was such evil in the world that just wantonly kills and destroys.

12:01 And so it was, it was that type of a, of a feeling, but it was just a deep there, there was a change. There was a, you know, it was just very deep the, the things, you know, that this was like, I don't even know how to explain it, except that it was, you know, to happen in that fashion, in the way that it happened so public, so out there. And by that, by the by the time, you know, I had a chance to think about this, then it'd come out that he died. And it was just, and I wept all over again, realizing the finality of it for him and for his family, for his kids, but also for our culture and our society. Because if you can't even speak, you know, here you and I are, we're doing a podcast about this.

12:46 And, and, and that's what they killed him for. They killed him because his words were harsh. And throughout the history, our belief and his, you know, Christianity, Mormonism, all of our heroes, all of the people we look up to, all of our scriptures tell this story over and over and over again. When people stand up and say the truth and it hurts deeply enough, evil rises up and tries to stop the words. They try to kill stranger. That is just constant. And so here we've been able, we are now witnessing that. We've witnessed that, felt it.

13:28 We get to watch it and it's graphic horror of that play out because he because he had a different idea than other people. 100%. And this strikes. And so the, the concept of that strikes deeply into your, your heart and mine. And anybody who grew up in a culture that was persecuted by people, you know, you look back at Mormonism. So I started thinking about all those things and I started thinking, you know, his message is pretty, pretty darn similar. If you if you take that message and pare it down, the things that Charlie Kirk was saying was not much different than what Joseph Smith in the early years was saying. The Christ was real.

14:17 Gain some faith, pray and he'll come to you have a family, raise some children, get married, live easy or live a simple life. Honor the honor the Constitution, no matter how much it, you know, the, the, the people in charge try to wangle around it, you know, and, and I just, I looked at, I looked at the similarities, you know, young men. Charlie was 31. Joseph was what, 39 when he was martyred. And I started looking at all these things and I started telling my kids in the first day that, that, you know, this martyrdom. And they started asking me questions, you know, well, did he know he's going to killed, get killed?

15:01 And I said, well, he was wearing a bulletproof vest, so he certainly had a good idea somebody might try. And he'd had threats. And yet he also still went on, went forward and he got on the stage and he still said things. And he was bold in calling out sin. And that's what prophets through persecuted, mobbed, destroyed, chased, you know, all the the blood of the prophets was because they were asked by God to call out sin and cry repentance. And that's pretty much what Charlie Kirk's been doing for a long time. And so I had a certainly had a new respect. And anyway, dude, it was, it was just, it's home.

15:47 No, it, it hit, it hit real home, right? And, and look, I'm, we're not here to equate Charlie Smith, I mean Charlie Kirk with Joseph Smith. That's not what we're doing. What we are doing is that there's some similarities here, right? Right. Yep, very much, you know. Their missions were totally different. Charlie was not a Mormon. He didn't subscribe to Mormonism. He didn't hold the priesthood, any of those things, right? I'm not saying he did. Right. However, he did have a mission that he fulfilled, right? He would. He felt impressed that God had told him to do these things and he was wildly successful. Right now I want to read something here real quick 'cause I think this is important as we start talking about prophets. I want to go down this is this is the church's, the the LDS Church's definition of kind of the responsibilities of prophet, receive and teach God's will and doctrine to mankind, calling people to repentance and providing spiritual guidance relevant to their specific time and circumstances. I went back when I was forming my hypothesis that matched yours and I started looking at all of Charlie Kirk's videos and there is a great many of them where in

17:17 his own way yet unmistakable, but in his own way called society at large and sometimes individuals and sometimes organizations to repentance right now, when I first bounced my idea off of Jeff here and I bounced this idea off of a couple different guys right. I look when I have an idea, I always start from from the standpoint of OK, I I'm probably wrong, but let's go ahead and flush this out and show me where I'm wrong. I think that there is a, a prophet with a capital P, and that would be a prophet inside the priesthood. And then I believe that there are prophets with a lowercase P OK, one of my good buddies, I just talked to you here right before this podcast said kind of a cultural prophet, right? Moving the culture closer to God, what God would want in a very general way.

18:24 And I thought that's probably a real good definition of that, right? And so he's, he's working in that role. That's part of his thing is to call people, societies, organizations to repentance. OK. So, so that's the ground level, Jeff, Any, any place you can see where, where we could be off in this? I, I think there's a tremendous amount of different levels of our perception on, you know, on what the prophet is. Of course, growing up in the church, being, you know, being in that culture, we have a very distinct idea because we have a prophet and 12 apostles and so on and so forth. And we're taught that that's, that's where they're at. And so it's hard for us to comprehend the possibility that God could call a prophet outside that realm, but he does all the time.

19:18 I mean, there's a lot of people on the earth, you know. I mean, what did he tell Peter? You know, you know, many sheep that I have that are not of this fault, and I'm going to go visit them too. And then he comes over here and to the Nephites and the Lamanites who were left, he says, my prophets of old did not. We're not aware of you. And they never asked. So I never told him. Right. He calls a whole bunch of more prophets and a bunch of more people to go do his work over here. And it's basically if they'd asked, I'd have told him, but they didn't, you know. So, so here we are. You know, our scriptures are pretty profound and, and a lot of the stories are about men who are, you know, it does not give us the full extent of their story.

20:04 Lehigh, we don't know. You know, he didn't even know that he was a descendant of Manasseh. So, you know, there's that. And yet we Revere him as as this great prophet which he was. And he followed the Lord, he had a vision, he went out, he preached repentance. They threatened his life. The Lord said, you better leave and I have a pretty special place for you. So because he had interaction with the Lord, we Revere him as a great prophet of the book of all right, the the scriptures are just full of stories like this that that don't really fit the narrative that we grew up with that it's easy to see who the prophet is because we sustain him.

20:44 Right, right. And so we go there, but the reality is God calls a lot of people and he's aware of all things. And to think that he doesn't have people who are listening or can hear his spirit outside of our view is, is pretty small thought. Actually. We, we, we, we really put God in a box if we try to tell him who can be who he can call to say or do things. So but he said by their fruit she shall know them. So if you want to know whether or not, you know, Charlie Kirk or anybody for that matter, had prophetic abilities or even the the, you know, Christianity at large will point to one of the one of the scriptures in the Bible. You know, I got asked this question on my mission all the time as a kind of as a bait.

21:31 You know, what do you think a prophet is? Because the Bible comes out clearly and says that the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy. OK, So the reality is if you have the testimony of Jesus to the to the level that you are tied in, you can receive impression about the future and prophecy. And that's the basic, the basic, one of the basic, you know, components of a prophet is somebody who can see the future, speak it and it comes to pass. And if it comes to pass, they truly have the spirit of prophecy. If you want to go look at Charlie Kirk's, you know what are his fruits? 1 He was willing to die for a belief in Christ. You know so absolutely he is a martyr for the cause because they stood up with great courage and spoke the truth of Jesus Christ and the basics of family of repent and be aware of the sins that are upon our generation. And he enumerated them very distinctly, and he called them out.

22:42 And that's when people get killed. And so, you know, my heart's out, and my hat's off to Charlie and his family and to others who are willing to stand up for what they know is true, and in the name of Jesus Christ, to call it out and to cry, cry repentance unto this world that we live in, because we are far astray. Absolutely. So, you know, that's just just been on my mind and that's part of why I started thinking about it from the terms of, huh, you know how many people have been publicly assassinated in the history of America in this fashion for their political views, which are actually religious views?

23:25 OK, this isn't politics, this is religion. I think something else that's important here to to recognize is that when someone says, well, you got to keep your religion separate from your politics. I don't think that's possible, right? It's not possible. There is too many intersections between religion and and politics for it to be that way. Like, let's let's get an example here. And it's one that that Kirk talked about a lot, right? Abortion, Jeff, for you? Is that a religious issue or a political one?

24:05 It's religious at its core, but it's political because it it it deals with murder. From my religious opinion, it's a murder. Therefore it takes politics and government to control people who would wantonly do it, which takes away the rights of others. So it's both political and religious. So. So you would say that your politics were informed by your religion? Oh, they're absolutely built on my religion. All of us is our if we want to take it down to the core of what we think, how we treat our neighbor. Exactly. And and that's, and that's my point, right, is that all of us, all of us, even the ones we disagree with are religious in nature. All men are religious.

24:54 I don't care what they say, right? All men are religious. It doesn't matter who you are now, what changes is who your God is. That's the difference, right? For guys like me and you, it's all about Jesus. It's all about the Father, right? That's, that's what, what it's about. If, if it's somebody who's an environmentalist, well, nature is their God, right? If somebody is, is, you know, LGBTQ, what whatever it is now, their religion is wokeness, right?

25:35 All men, all people are religious. It's just a matter of which God you're you decide you want to serve. And look, idols come in a lot of different forms. For some it's money, for some it's fame. For others, it's it's, you know, you know, the the opposite sex, it just whatever it is, all men are religious. It's just matter what God you're going to serve. Now, I feel like it's important here to say the other thing we're not doing here is making an idol out of Charlie Kirk. It's not what we're doing. He was a man just like the rest of us. He made mistakes. There were a lot, there were some things I didn't agree with Charlie on, on his politics, but nonetheless, by and large his his time here on this earth, I believe was a net positive. But as far as he fulfilled his role in terms of of what the Lord asked him to do of calling people to repentance. That is very much in the prophetic tradition in the judeo-christian ethic, right?

26:41 A a call to repent. Now I want to say this and I think this is one of the things that did make Charlie Kirk kind of good when it came to dealing with his audience, right? And his target audience, what were college age kids, right? He had a he had a great way on how to do that. Jeff, if old guys like me and you had to call people a repentance, it would be a lot harsher. But nonetheless, Kirk was able to to call people to repentance in a way that was very palatable to them.

27:23 And I'm going to give an example of this right now. And Jeff, if you can't hear this at some point, let me know. For the audience, if you're watching the video, the video has has subtitles in case you can't hear them. For those who are just listening, I'm going to let it play once and then I'll play it twice and I'll read you what's on the screen. So you know what Charlie Kirk is saying now? This is 10 minutes before 10 or 20 minutes before Charlie Kirk. Excuse me, Charlie Kirk is assassinated. So give me just one second. Here, let me fire this up. Here we go. By the way, I I love how Mormons have more kids than they can afford. Time for Mormons.

28:10 You got to get your mojo back. No more this LGBT stuff. In this. Country. Let me just continue. I love how Mormons and missionaries around the world. I love how quiet you are. I I hope my team is Mormon Terrells and Mormon Andrews and Mormon everybody. I'm an evangelical Christian. We're gonna have fun with this, but I'm not one of those guys that hates on Mormons. I'm going to do it again and this time I'll read it. By the way, I love how Mormons have more kids than they can afford.

29:03 I think it's time for Mormons to get their more mojo back. No more of this LGBT stuff. We need a he can get. Then goes on to say we need a strong Mormon church back in this country. Yep. And he said he loved how Mormons send missionaries all around the world. So Jeff, I, I got a question for you, brother. What, what was that? What? What was it Charlie Kirk did right there to the Mormons? You know, it was really interesting because my wife Cherise brought that to my attention. Later on, shout out to Cherise.

29:47 Yeah, Later on this or after you and I talked this morning, she brought that attention and and I, I looked at it two or three times and I thought, here he is calling for a return of the strong Mormon Church. You guys need to get the strong Mormon Church back. And he, what else? What else did he say? There was one other thing. Oh, you need to get your mojo back, which, you know, define mojo as a groove as get back in the, the rhythm of the, the real rhythm, you know, whatever you want to call it. So one, he's aware from his perspective, let's put it that way, he's aware that something's wrong.

30:32 Yes. And then he defined it, but yet in a way that the crowd took it OK. Absolutely. Find it. And he said no more of this LGBTQ stuff. So specifically, he's aware that there is struggle over these issues in the church. And he is simply and and calmly saying, you guys need to get your mojo back, man. No more of this stuff. And then he goes on to say, we need the strong Mormon church back. Now, you know that sounds like you and me talking in a different language, but that's you and me talking, right, Dave? That Jeff right there in his own way, right?

31:16 Again, not the way you and I would do it, but we talked to different audiences, Jeff, right. If we did it, if we, if we did what Charlie did there and we did it our way, we'd lose that crowd, right? That crowd would be like, see you later, Boomer, right? They'd be gone. They'd be like, see you later, Fundy Fundy. Right. Exactly. But nonetheless, Jeff, that's a call to repentance. Am I right or am I wrong there? It sure sounds like it to me and and then he went on and he expressed love because sometimes the Lord says chastising with sharpness followed shortly there with love, lest you're in, lest they seem, lest you think they're your enemy.

32:01 I I really stopped that quote. But see, Charlie did that and hey, did not even Mormon, but he was acting as a good righteous man trying to call something out that he sees from afar. Now, interestingly, it's hard to take that right. You know, if you're if you're if you're not thinking about it and if you haven't already accepted the fact that we we really have trouble culturally and that we've given up some things and that we struggle, then that's that's almost offensive. How dare you say something about us, you know? And so it's really interesting because I, you know, I sent that over and shared it with you and you came back.

32:46 I couldn't hardly wait. So I called you and you answered. I just watched it. And we both. Had seen the same thing but we're pre we were predisposed to see that because we've been through years of looking at things critically going what in the world's going on here and so Charlie Kirk calls it out. You know, it reminds me talking about profits. OK, let's look at an example out of the Book of Mormon. Samuel comes around and he just appears out of nowhere, climbs up on the wall and starts crying repentance to the Nephites prior to Christ's death. And he also prophecies a bunch of stuff that's going to happen. And then he jumps off the ball and he goes away. And we don't hear much more about it. Course, we have it in the book now, but we can read in 3rd Nephi when the Savior comes to those people. And one of the things he does is he subtly, calmly and lovingly calls him out and says, bring forth the records. And they bring him forth and he says, hey, where? Where's that account in here?

33:44 That Samuel, all his prophecies and the things he told you, which were pretty harsh because they tried to kill him for it. They shot arrows at him. They tried to stone him. They couldn't hit him. And he jumped off and got away. Yep. He saw the same human behavior exists in almost every culture. But the Savior came and said, I want you to put that back in because He prophesied of me. Yep. Yep, he told you when it would happen to the day. Yep, Yep, and. 100. Percent. And so, you know, a lot of things repeat themselves in this world, but these are just some really interesting things, Dave, that are going on. Yeah. 100% when? So Like again, just the timeline of events between Jeff and I here we have that conversation where we both came up with the same idea independently of each other. Again, halfway across the continent from each other. And then Jeff's wife, Cherise finds this video where he does his thing, only this outsider comes in and calls Mormonism to repentance.

34:53 Right? Like you were just saying, Jeff, you got to get your mojo back. What does that mean? Let me break that down. That means you need to start doing your thing again. You need to start being that those people again, right? He's saying you had something of value and now you have to return to it. What does he say? The country needs a strong Mormon church. Again, saying we were better off when you guys were holding to your doctrine. And what does he say to knock off? Get that LGBTQ stuff out of here. You don't need it in there. And he does it in a very palatable way that the crowd not only is willing to hear it, they're cheering for it. Right?

35:38 Like they're like, yes, you are correct. And so we have a guy who apparently is acting in this role and rallies the troops right before the worst happens. Yep, I find it also very interesting, Dave, that the first thing he said was I love it that the Mormons have more have more kids than they can afford and. That was awesome. So so once again, here's a joke, but I I think it was delivered in the way, you know, I love that you have families. Well, guess what, not anymore.

36:20 So was that also a subtle call because the question is the thing you know, you if any of his videos you go back and watch to the youth. He says get married, have children, protect your women, raise them in righteousness, return teach your children principles of the Constitution, freedom of speech, all the things. Now that that's just that's Mormon thought as well as Christian thought. Those are just so do deeply rooted in what we would call the gospel of Jesus Christ, right? And so here he is preaching his gospel in a fun way. Get in the crowd to to hear him encouraging them to have babies. And you wouldn't think that Mormons would need to hear that.

37:02 But our birth rate has dropped below the sustainable level to even maintain the population. So we need to hear it and Hallelujah that somebody's willing to stand up and say it. I'm going to stay as far away from bashing anybody right now. That's not what I want to do. But I do think, you know, I, I can't help but think, why? Why are we not hearing this from our pulpits, right? Look, OK, you don't like plural marriage, fine, be done with it. But don't give up the rest, right? You know, get rid of the LGBTQ stuff. Focus on those young kids getting married. Jeff, this is such a problem.

37:50 The I'm glad you, you pointed that birth rate thing out because I think that's huge. The, this was when I was still in the LDS church. I guess it would have been right around 2015. I was nearing the end of my sojourn there, and I was an elders quorum president at that time. And I was asked to to deliver a message in a state conference, the priesthood session, about having kids. Now, granted, he looked at me and saw that I had 6. And it's like, that's my guy, right? I mean, he can speak with authenticity to this. And so I, I remember I gave, I gave the talk and then dude, like, OK, just so everyone knows, it's just not this podcast.

38:46 I made people mad at me with. I did it in talks too in the LDS church. There was a guy who stood up and got mad at me for that talk and, and called me out in front of everybody. And I started to reply because that's what I do. And the state president stood up and he said, Dave, sit down, I'll take it from here. And I, I sat back down and he said there was nothing wrong with that talk. You, you may not like what the content was, but that's the talk that had to be given at this stage. And he said, I'm going to tell you something right now. Young men speaking to the young fathers in there or the young married people who hadn't had babies yet that could and, you know, that weren't medically challenged in that way, I guess. And he said, I have talked to more of you young men who said that you just have to, you know, you're waiting till you're financially secure.

39:46 You're waiting until you're more settled. And he said, guess what? You can do almost everything that with a baby that you used to do without a baby. And, you know, kind of put forward this idea of we need to start having families again, right? Well, it's a problem. And again, an outsider comes in to point this out. And I do want to make an observation here. Jeff, do you know so UVU, you know what, what county that's in, right? Utah County. Utah County. I might give you some interesting statistics about Utah County. It is the first the most Republican slash conservative county in the country.

40:36 It is the most read right of a of a certain population base right. I'm sure you could find redder redder counties. Whenever there's only like 6 people right then it's 100% right. But per capita it is the reddest county in the United States. It is also the county that boasts per capita, the highest activity rate in the LDS Church. So where does where does this message get delivered in the heart of Mormonism? I know that church headquarters is in Salt Lake, but Utah County, they call it the heart of of Utah.

41:21 There's a reason for that. And that's because it's pumping out a lot of members, right? And a lot of missionaries and all those other things. And he delivers that message in the heart of Mormonism, essentially, or at least the heart of the LDS Church. Now, Jeff, is there anything you want to add there before we move on? No, I, I just think it's really profound that, you know, I, I love the proclamation on the family as a, as a general rule, you know what I mean? I. Don't have a? Problem I I I.

42:02 Don't have a problem calling that thing. Scripture yeah, I grew up, you know, with the family and we had nine kids and we were large family, you know, every Mother's Day mom was the one who got called up as the woman with the most kids kind of thing because that's just the way it was. But everybody else had five or six, you know, and so it so it really was one of these one of these things. But, you know, the having the family dynamic is, is goes hand in hand with with Mormon thought. You know, it's the basic unit of society.

42:42 It is the IT it is the the, the most sacred of, you know, of organizations in a week. We obviously believe that it is the same organization in the eternities, the family organization. And so this has always been something I've been taught since I was little, but that Satan, the forces of evil, would do everything. And you can see them at work trying to destroy the family. And so here's a man who gets up and goes around telling the youth. Hey. Family's cool, have some kids, get married, make a few more. Any jokes for the Mormons? I love it that you guys even have more than you can afford, you know, and, and yet that mission is so deeply ingrained in the heart and the mind of the man called Father, because this experiment is the place that he's chosen for us to come and recognize for ourself the battle that has existed for eternity between the truth and the lies.

43:49 And the battle rages on, and here we sit and we watched it on TV, on our phones, as the adversary reached out through some guy to kill a man who was trying to convince his peers to raise a good family and to love Jesus Christ. And it was for those words that he was killed. It's for those words that that large sections of our society hated him with such a passion that they're still celebrating. And so these are part of the reasons why you and I are just struck to the core by the moment, because the eternal play of good and evil has now reached out and touched us in person.

44:42 The adversary stood up and said, I'm going to get you all. And his biggest tool is fear. And if Charlie Kirk or anybody who's stood on a stage like that in time for time immemorial could tell us, they would say, don't give up hope. God is still in control. The message is still true. Hold your ground. Have faith in Christ and go and have a family teach him truth and freedom. So I got, I got to hand it to him, you know, he's a martyr and doesn't make him an idol or a God. It makes him a martyr, but a but a darn good man, you know.

45:25 Yep, absolutely. You know, I, I got to ask you, Jeff, what do you think the significance is that his blood was spilt in that section of the Mormon Kingdom, so to speak? You know, I a lot of things that happen or just, you know, you look at them and you go, huh, that's really weird. And and the more you look at it, you think maybe maybe that's not so weird. Maybe there's some, you know, where if if you were trying to make a point and trying to instill fear upon the people, which is what Satan does, you almost could not have picked a better time or place a more, shall we say, even innocent people to walk in and, and brutally carry out something like that.

46:29 Even even even as the person there is seeking to to debate, but to calmly have a conversation about all of these things and to do it in such, you know, a public manner. You know, it's never been like this. You know, even when I was young, JFK was assassinated and, you know, the films of him made their way around. But but this happened, you know, and dinged on people's phones and they pulled them out wherever they were at. And who knows how many millions upon millions have have watched the horror of a public assassination for for a man who had a different idea than the person who took his life.

47:15 And then to see the reaction across the globe, you know, the reaction in our own country. That's the fearful part, is the recognition that we really are at this point where the ideas of good and evil are have taken root at the level where they're turning to physical manifestation for good or for evil. And the evil side of it is there was there's violence ahead. You know, we we've been told this forever and the prophets forever. And those who are willing to say, you know, would say, find yourself a place that's quiet, remove yourself from the places of contention, which would be the city's.

47:55 And I would echo. But you know, here we are. It's just just it's, it's upon us, Dave. Yeah, So if and and you can find this in one of the episodes I did about, about the United States and the Constitution and our founding and those sorts of things. But this country and Israel are the only two countries that ever made a covenant with the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. That's it. And the covenant is remarkably the same, right? And you can find echoes of this or not even illusions. You can kind of find it find it spelled out in Second Nephi. And basically you're promised two things. If nationally you make a covenant with the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, that if you are his people and you do your darndest to to walk up to that covenant that you make and that you will be that that city on a hill, that that shining example that God will bless you with peace, prosperity and protection.

49:06 OK. And prosperity doesn't mean necessarily always means wealth, right? I don't want to turn the gospel into a prosperity gospel. I don't think that's the kind of prosperity God is talking about. I think he probably means more like families, a robust society where where crime is low and, and, you know, people can make it sort of a thing. What I speak next, I speak in broad generalities. I am not singling out one group over another. But we all have to get back to being a little more Mormon than what we're doing right now.

49:53 Otherwise, as we throw God out by not following up, by not following him, by not living up to that covenant well, you can expect those blessings of peace, prosperity, and protection to be withdrawn. I want to be very careful here. I don't think God caused this to happen. I think God allowed this to happen. It's kind of my views on most sin that we we end up paying a price for. God doesn't want to reach out and just smack us upside the head even though we deserve it.

50:33 A lot of times God simply just gets out of the way and like, OK, you don't want to do this without me, Go ahead. But I'm going to let you reap the natural, the natural consequences of your actions. And he just lets it happen. And so I, that's what I'm saying could have happened here, right? This is a call to to get back to who we are, to stop what we're doing as if we are partaking in Babylon in any way. Now is the time to stop, turn 180�� and go back to the Mormonism that was was more of what God intended it to be, not what it is or has turned into now because of our various things. And I think this is a call to each Mormon individually to take stock in your life.

51:34 What is it in your life that is preventing you from moving forward? I have done a lot of soul searching this week, Jeff, a lot of soul searching since Wednesday afternoon. There are things that I need to do better. There are things that I need to do to be a better man, a better priesthood holder, a better husband, and a better father. And I'm committed to doing those things. Now, I'm not always going to be perfect, but I'm going to try like hell to be, to be those things that that quite frankly, God expects me to walk up to and to be. I, I want to be clear on something else. I think the adversary was sending a message as well. Oh, it was.

52:24 It was like watching a couple guys weighing in for a big UFC fight, you know, the drama, the smack talk, you know, and the battles coming. You know, I mean, what's already happened was the battle. But one of the interesting things that that struck me as I went back and, you know, all of a sudden, of course, my feed, you know, from my, my YouTube feed was full of Charlie Kirk stuff and different things. And I watched a little piece where he talked about what he foresaw or what the biggest problems for the West or Christianity. Judy, you know what are the biggest? Problems. I was, I was going to say it's probably worthwhile to define what he means by the West, right?

53:08 So when when someone like Charlie Kirk or political pundits mention the West, they're not talking about necessarily one specific geographical location. What they're talking about is a school of thought. And if we talk about what Western culture has been, it's a global, it's kind of a global call here, right? It's Europe. It's it's the parts of the Mideast. It's it's a school of thought. It, it has a lot to do with the judeo-christian ethics, right? That was the West and out of the. West what sprang? Yeah, what what came out of the West was, was quite frankly everything we've enjoyed for the last 100 years, right. That was that was the fruit of of those those ideas. So anyway, go ahead, Jeff, sorry. No, that's, that's really good to define it because it was really interesting as I watched just a real short clip where where he started saying somebody asked him the question, what are the, what is the biggest threat, you know, to our way of life here in America and to the West?

54:15 And, you know, when his answer was woke ISM and communism and institutional lot, you know, basically are institutions that preach such things. And I, I sat back and I thought, Oh my goodness, you know, once again I felt like I was listening to President Benson speak in the 70s and 80s. No, we haven't even hardly dare say the word communist since then, You know, and in the church we have this very, very profound storyline that that is throughout the entirety of the Book of Mormon about this, the the shadowy underbelly of their beast, which was called the Gadiant robbers.

55:05 You know, the deep state, shall we say, of of those ages. And we were warned time and time and time again based on that same covenant that is attached to this country, that any country who has it will not fall if they worship truly the God that is Jesus Christ, the God of this land. And so, you know, we understand these things. And yet President Vinson in my youth was warning over and over again, even to, you know, the the embarrassment of some of the members of the church at the time just didn't even want to listen to President Vinson couldn't wait till the next prophet took over because he was so political.

55:49 But he was just, he was just, he was warning the people. And that warning has come true. It's true. All of our institutions are rife and filled with the ideology that he warned against 60 years ago, and many people spoke about it. Throughout my life, I've gone to firesides and different things. But we didn't do enough. And now the control almost rests, you know, almost rests completely in the hands of individuals that we don't even understand or know are pulling the strings.

56:34 Absolutely. And yet here's Charlie Kirk saying the same thing that President Benson said 60 years ago. Now was it make him, it makes him a man who was tuned in. It makes him a man who can look at the system and go, oh, oh, we got, we got a thought pattern here that is going to destroy our people. And he's willing to stand up and talk about it. So, you know, our culture has known of this stuff openly for a long time. And here we are and all of our institutions. Or if there's anybody out there who can hear me, you know, for whatever it's worth, teach your kids, get your kids out of the system.

57:23 You know, part of the weirdness of this, you know, they, they as of today, they kind of caught this guy. And the governor was talking about how sad he was. And I agree that he was, you know, born and raised in Utah and came from a family. I don't know. I didn't hear whether they were Mormon or not. But somewhere in between his high school years and what he did, he went to college and got compromised. Yeah. And he's Antifa. He's a communist. OK, So what happened to this young man? I don't know. He went to a school to taught him something different than his whole culture taught him. And I'm, I'm, I'm vastly generalizing the the story of a person that I don't know personally, you know, this is all this.

58:12 I'm so take that for what it's worth, but he certainly committed a crime in a in a in a very public fashion. That was different from what you would think looking at the family album that's been paraded before the world of his growing up. And you sit back and you go how, how, how can this be? Anyway, the early brethren talked about that too, You know, absolutely. And over the minds of our children to men who know not God. Then we will lose them. Brigham Young Brigham Young was talking about not letting your kids attend government school in the mid. 1000s Oh, John Taylor called it out and said, if you know so little about, about the nature of God and and the progression of humanity as to let your children be taught by a godless man, I mean, you don't deserve to be there. You know, they, they knew they knew these things. But so, you know, this goes way deep. This just goes way deep.

59:18 And I know we're touching on subjects that are just almost taboo. And they have been, I mean, people threatened to burn my house down 30 years ago because I talked about the school system and I pulled my kids out of school, right? So I know that when you touch a nerve on something as simple as education, they will threaten your life. And so here's Charlie Kirk going out into the inner sanctum of what has been taken over and completely controlled by this ideology. And he's willing to stand up and try to teach the kids that are in there the other side of this coin, the other side of the truth, so that they're not compromised.

59:59 We need to be called repentance for that. We just send them off. Yeah, dude. Go get a get go get yourself a degree and a good job. 100% There's a couple things I want to want to dive into there. First off, I remember I believe it was in his own voice. It was Ezra Taft Benson and they were talking about he was talking about an exchange he had with Nikita Khrushchev and Benson had went over on kind of a goodwill mission to well, first Khrushchev and his boys came over here and then I believe Benson flew over with to to look at their AG right, because Benson was under Nixon. Was it Nixon?

1:00:48 You can correct me if I'm wrong. He. Was the Secretary of Agriculture right after? The under under Nixon, right? No, I don't think so. I think it was right before Nixon, but it was right over to help rebuild Europe. OK. At any rate. But this is when the apostleship, he wasn't the profit at the time that he was in the Secretary of Agriculture. But I don't know the dates. I wasn't born. Yet anyway, he went over and him and Nikita Khrushchev had an interesting exchange. You can find this video on YouTube by the way. And Khrushchev, they they get to talking about their different political ideologies. And Khrushchev looks at Benson and says, one day you're grandchildren or great grandchildren will live under communism.

1:01:39 And Benson said, not my grandkids. My grandkids will know the difference. And you know what? I'll bet most Americans, they're going to know the difference. And Khrushchev smiled at him. And he says, you don't understand. We'll just feed you dribs and drabs of socialism until you have communism. We'll do it slowly. Well, what has happened today? Yeah. That's that's the fruition and we're they're they're almost there, Jeff, like it's not they're not far off now, to be right, honest with you and look. They're calling what it is. They're they're coming right out and, and calling, you know, and, and Charlie Kirk calls it right out as communism.

1:02:24 He didn't say socialism, you know, he said, he said he said the Marxists and the Democratic Marxists, the communists and and President Benson wrote a book called Socialism, the Royal Rd. To Communism. Yep. It's a great book. He he knew, he thought. But see, these are all prophetic things that now, 60 years later, have become reality in our world. And now we have a fight on our hands that's so monumental. It's going to be really, really, you know, I mean, we're looking at, we're looking at the possibility of, of severe civil unrest, you know, even to the fulfillment of a lot of the predictions of, of another civil war based on the hatred and the anger and the divide that is almost, I watched several videos today from from state representatives to just people, but they're all willing to speak up and they see no way out.

1:03:22 And you have on the one side the cheering, the cheering and the Glee at the death of a man. And on the other side they're, they're saying you're not, you know, So what? It's just that there's a fight brewing And and it's, it's a fight we don't want to live through. I mean, we're going to, we're going to live through it. But you understand what I'm saying. No, I get what you mean. This is the time where a prophet told us if we didn't repent 6050, forty, 3020 years ago that we would see these days. And now we're seeing them. And so here we go. You know, I want to go back to, to, to something else, right? The family, the, the proclamation on the family, Jeff, that thing came out the year I became a Mormon. I was baptized in 95.

1:04:12 That comes out, I think 90 late 95 early 96. I could be wrong, but at any rate, I remember reading it and I was kind of like unimpressed, right? Because I'm like, well, yeah, no, no kidding, right? Like this is, yeah, you're you're right. I don't know why you're reminding us of this, but you're right. And, you know, everybody you know who was Mormon framed it and hung it in their home, right? That was just what you did. Your your wife would go off to Relief Society, make a cute little little frame, and then you'd hang it up and it would be Relief Society eyes and it was hanging in your front room.

1:04:52 And I was like, why? Why does this have to be a revelation? Right? Like, I I don't get it. This is self-explanatory. 20 years later. Like 20 years later. 30 years later, I guess. Excuse me. Yeah. That thing's more relevant than ever, right? Like, that thing may have been been like, not a big deal back in 95, but today, Yeah, that thing's kind of spicy, right? No. Gender's immutable God doesn't make mistakes. You're born into the, into the correct body. Dads, you have the responsibility to go out and earn a living and, and, and support your family.

1:05:38 Moms, you're the, you know, you have the most sacred role of raising the next generation, and all that's turned upside down today. Every bit of it. The pressure to move beyond that is mounting. You know. To, to make some kind of statement modifying that. And there's no doubt that that pressure has been really quite severe for a decade or so. You know, even probably when they came out, they were aware, no doubt, and felt like there had to be something done. So an Amen to that. But now I think that I, you know, I really think that's probably what, what, you know, what Charlie was saying by, I mean, he just called it out.

1:06:26 Yeah. No more of the no more of this stuff, no more this crazy stuff that undermines the family and and we're waltzing pretty darn close to the line. Absolutely, absolutely. And we cannot be shocked now, right? I mean, look, we all are, right? I'm shocked. You were shocked. Everybody was shocked. And we all felt it to our car, dude. Like I thought, man, why am I weeping over this? I don't know this man. I you know, I've saw him a few times. What is happening here? Other men that I knew, men that you would know, Jeff all told me the same thing, right?

1:07:09 I I can't, I can't This this is rough. What? What is happening here? We all felt this, and I think we all felt this because this wasn't a this wasn't an assassination just from a political standpoint. This was an assassination from a spiritual standpoint. There are those there that do not like our way of life, and that's OK. They don't have to like it, but nonetheless, we who have a testimony of this way of life, it's incumbent upon us to keep living it no matter what and to keep defending it.

1:07:59 I'm going. To get real nerdy on you for half a second. Oh please, you. You like nerdy stuff? I didn't even know what that meant till my kids started using the nerdy and the younger generation taught me that I was a nerd in some things. You know that there was that moment in the first Star Wars. Sorry, here I go on Star Wars, right? Now you're talking my language, Jeff. Sorry people, where? I know where you're going, I think, yeah. You got Luke and you got Obi Wan teaching him the basics of how to be a Jedi. And he he's learning the skills, you know, with his lightsaber. And all of a sudden the Empire uses the new weapon.

1:08:41 They use Death Star to make a point, they choose a system and they assassinate. I believe was called Alderaan. Was that it? I don't know. They wiped out a planet, right? To make a point that no one could contend with them. Be afraid. We're in control. And it affected Obi Wan so deeply that he had to sit down. And Luke was like, what's what's, what's going on? And he just, he just had to describe to him that there was this lift in the force. You know, call what you want from a spiritual perspective.

1:09:22 If you're tuned in, if you have compassion in your soul, if you have the light of Christ and you try to to help and love, then something like this effects you at such a deep level. Because it was a call out by the adversary with an intent to create fear across the board from one side of the spectrum directed at the other. And that's what we're feeling. We're feeling a call to war from the devil himself. He's letting us know. The reality is he is.

1:10:06 Luckily, Christ overcame and if we will follow his words and keep his commandments, then we will overcome too. And death is just a little, you know, that's I've been really grateful to watch, you know, the different things and listen to the different people of Christian faith in their their hopes of, you know, Charlie's peace and his rest. And we have those same hopes, you know, for a man who's willing to give his life for his testimony of Jesus Christ for him. And so there's an example for us in the face of this outright evil call from the adversary.

1:10:52 And the answer should be to put on the full armor of God and to stand up and to be the person that you know you are. If there are things in our lives that we lack, we absolutely need to repent. There's nothing wrong. There's nothing. In fact. That is the plan, this course of love as laid out by the Lord. When we do something wrong, we repent. If there's something to miss, we change it. That's not a terrible thing. That's a good thing. We should exercise that right and that privilege every time we need to and become 100%. So as long as we move, Yep.

1:11:35 Anyway, those are my thoughts. It's a, you know, it's just a, but it affects us, Dave, we feel it. And, and many, many people from all walks of life, you all you have to do is go and look and you have, you have two different shades out there. You have those that are just awestruck by what's happened and they they feel it. And then you have those that are jumping up and down in Glee for somebody else losing their life. Absolutely. The lines have been absolutely Yep. And. Yeah, there's not a lot of room for Grey anymore. The middle on this is almost gone, you know. Absolutely. And, and we've been told that that, that that's one of the things, the great sifting of the last days, you know, the, the drama is forcing everyone to choose, which is a part of why we're here anyway. Absolutely.

1:12:22 Choose ye this day whom you will serve Absolutely. There's so there's there's all these things. And so now we have that call again to us to get ourselves, you know, Isaiah would say, come out of her, O ye my people, that you be not partakers ever since, as it would say, get to a place of safety and then live the gospel and prepare for the coming of the Lord. That's what Isaiah would say. We believe Isaiah, I think we had to take heed to those words absolutely anyway. Just it's it's so deep and yet here it is. It's happened and it's going to continue to happen because time is moving.

1:13:04 Yep, Yep. No, you know, there was another something else somebody said, pointed out. Do you remember what the name of Charlie Kirk's organization was? Turning Point USA. Turning point. Yeah, kind of. I find that interesting because I think now we we've just hit a turning point. I think, I think, I think the seasons have changed again, Jeff. And I find myself saying that a lot these days, but I don't think that it's not true. I think that that things are hastening now in such a way that to ignore that we do it our own peril.

1:13:48 So we've kind of laid this out right. We've defined what a profit is. We've defined that, you know, there's profits with a capital P that stand in the priesthood and then there's kind of cultural prophets who try to move society in a direction in a very general way back towards the the judeo-christian ethic that that, that most of America had subscribed to it one time or another. Charlie was definitely one of the latter and and he's gone now and the message has been sent. So Jeff, what does what, what do we do now? I think that everybody needs to probably search inside their own heart and ask the Lord exactly what He has for them and what they need to accomplish in the time that's left. I think those members, those people who were raised, born and raised in the culture that you and I were born and raised in and, and who all of us who believe that there's a responsibility that comes, you know, with priesthood. Priesthood is such a double edged sword. You know, it's only only works if we're righteous. It's taken from us if we try to

1:15:20 use it improperly to our own, to our own, you know, to our own downfall. But what kind of responsibility do we have to stand up not only for our families and our children, but our neighbors? You know, I think it's, what is it, DNC 8210? I don't know. Look it up. I think that's it. Yeah, I'm probably wrong, but look it up. I'm I'm looking it up right now. Anyway, if it's the right one, basically says and it becometh every man who hath been warned to warn his neighbor. And if I'm wrong, oops.

1:16:02 Almost there, bear with me 821010 I've award and bound when you do what I say, but when you. So look over there. It's close to that. It's in that same verse or in that same chapter, I believe. All right, There is a verse in the Doctrine and Covenants. That says. And it becometh every man who hath been warned to warn his neighbor. While you're looking that up, Dave, I just want to ask the rhetorical question. Do we have to be a prophet to warn our neighbor?

1:16:43 No, no, it sure would help if we had a prophetic gift. And if if the Spirit of Prophecy is nothing but an intense manifestation of the testimony of Jesus, then all of us should become prophets and feel deep within our soul the responsibility to warn. It becometh every man. Did you find it? Where was it? I did. It's 8881. Behold, I sent you out to testify and warn the people, and it becometh every man who have been warned to warn his neighbor. I was 6-7 chapters off, all right, Have to repent. Anyway, think about that for a minute. As far as you know, I, I, I caught a lot of Flack, obviously from, you know, family and friends and people in my journey coming out, you know, actually becoming a fundamentalist. You know, well, you, you've lost your priesthood, you've done this.

1:17:47 And how can you, what authority do you have to, to say this or to do that, You know? But as far as the things we're talking about tonight are concerned, in our tradition, in our Scriptures, the Lord has said, it becometh every man who hath been warned, right? Warn his neighbor. Warn us about what? Well, what is it that you've warned about been warned about that the Spirit has told you is true. You know that that that's an individual thing The Lord would have would love to have a nation of prophets. Where's the what's the I don't know the exact verse or in in the life of Moses where he said, oh, would that all men were prophets.

1:18:36 You know, yes, Joseph reiterated. Yeah, Joseph Smith reiterated that, right. Yeah. No, we look, that is a gift that I think we can all enjoy if we if we take the time to foster it. Well, it's tied to the testimony of Jesus. Yeah. So if our testimony of Jesus is is, and if we believe enough, then he will give us that gift because that is then extension of a testimony of Jesus and then with. But you know what, be careful because now you have a responsibility. It just can't be Willy nilly throwing stuff out, you know, and trying to Lord over people.

1:19:21 Absolutely. So, you know, here you have this man whose message was very central to the things that we all believe. And he gave it and he came and visited, you know, our people. He was murdered in in our the heart of our homeland with friends and family around a tragic, tragic event. And in the course of that, the things that he did say had very interesting implications to our community. Yeah. It was the first was religious and he dealt with it in that manner. He wasn't allowed to finish it.

1:20:02 They just he was just killed. Yep. So, so interesting. I, I encountered a video right and and look, I think this goes into legacy a little bit, right. There's an interesting video that I saw and it was a woman who was now probably in her early 30s who had three babies stay at home mom. And she talked about when she was in college where where Charlie had gone early in his in his calling and she was really considering abortion.

1:20:47 She had, you know, the same story we always hear Guy tells her that he loves her. She gives in. They they have premarital sex. She ends up becoming pregnant. He vaporizes. She's left out in the cold and she's honestly thinking about an abortion and she encounters Kirk and he talks her off the ledge and she has the baby and she ends up merit finding a good man who raises that baby as his own. She has a couple more kids and that's a legacy. He saved a life, right? Maybe he even helped a couple lives come into being by by helping her to not take that step. That's a legacy.

1:21:35 Now, I just asked you the question, what do we do now? Well, Wednesday, yesterday, the rest of this weekend, for those of us who didn't know Charlie well, me and you, other men, a lot of other people, it's time to mourn. It's time to mourn. It's a time to take stock of who we are as individuals, find out where we are lacking, and then repent of those things. I had one of my good friends on here named Ken Peterson. Shout out to him.

1:22:28 Good dude, active faithful member. The ODS church wrote a great book called Mormonism in the Apocrypha. We were doing a two-part series on Hugh Nibley and Nibley has a near death experience where he's shown the other side and he gets to converse with beings on the other side. Some angels, and through the course of their conversation, they basically tell Nibley, look, we envy you guys. We envy you who are still in your mortal probation. And Nibley say, was shocked.

1:23:11 Why would you ever? And envy us, we have this flesh that is weak, that it gets hurt. We're subject to illness, death and decay. And the Angel says, yeah, but you guys can repent so much faster than we can. And Nibley is quoted as saying, so let's give three cheers for repentance and get to repenting, right? We shouldn't look at repentance as a bad thing. That is an opportunity to do things better, to ask for forgiveness, surrender those things to the Lord, and then move on. Likewise, Jeff, you were a wrestler, right? Wrestling is a complex sport.

1:24:10 People who never done it don't quite understand. I heard one guy refer to it as it's a physical chess. It's a, it's a chess match with dire physical consequences, right? You got to be thinking about your next move as you you know before as, as your opponent is making his move. You got to think about your counter and then your offensive move after that. OK with that. It takes a long time to learn Jeff, you were you and I have talked you were a good wrestling, you were a great wrestler in school. Did you ever make a mistake while you were wrestling?

1:24:52 Not. All the time. OK, what would have happened if you would have just given up and just said, you know what, this is who I am and I'm just going to keep keep this mistake because it's part of me. Yeah, no, my progression would have stopped all. Right, it's it's the same for people who learn how to put hit a one wrong note. You don't just give up and walk away. You just say, OK, I'm going to do it better than this time, right? I'm going to find out what I did wrong. I'm going to find out what caused it. And then I'm going to make sure I don't do it again. I'm going to try really hard not to do it again. And most people, they'll make make a mistake again and they got to go back and they got fixed that.

1:25:36 It's a silly premise that you're willing to give up your whole exaltation because you made one mistake. That's silly. Get over yourself, OK? There's no sin that you've committed that Savior cannot rectify, given that you haven't killed anybody or denied the Holy Ghost, Right? And so repent. Get the crap out of your life. Now, there's more I have to say here, but Jeff, I could tell there was something you wanted to add. Go ahead. Where you start talking about wrestling. It is the sport of the gods. It is Jacob did it. Yeah, he did. It was great.

1:26:18 No, I mean the the word repentance, because it's been so misaligned or maligned over the history of the world. Whenever anybody stands up and cries repentance, the people who don't want to kill them. And so it's become this bad thing, right? But like you said, in wrestling or in anything else in life that we endeavor to become good at, we call it practice. Show up for practice. That's where you get better. It's where you it's where you can experiment. It's where coach can teach you new things. It's where you can get beat in front of your peers and be OK with it.

1:27:02 It's where they forgive you because they work together and you're beating them and they're beating you. And, and as long as you don't quit, long as you endure to the end, then you get another chance to show forth what you've learned in the next Friday's meet in front of everybody, your girlfriend, your family, the whole 9 yards. And if you desire to become better in that sport, you have to go through that process for years and decades. And, and, and so it really is an interesting process, but we think of our own lives And if somebody says to us, you know, you need to repent, we, we take offense when the way we should look at it is what they're saying is when's the last time you've been to practice? You know, you haven't showed up to practice. And if the Lord says it to you, then then he means it is like, when's the last time you practiced being a good husband? When's the last time you practiced helping your neighbor, loving your children, you know, but whatever, because it's the practice that makes us better at whatever it is we choose to do. You know, Mormons are a weird lot and we, we want to seek for perfection, which is the ultimate, you know, weird thing because we can't perceive of ourselves being perfect. But nonetheless, God has commanded us to become like him in whatever way we can.

1:28:27 So I'm, I'm not ashamed to proclaim that, you know, that that's biblical, that's Book of Mormon, that's all over and the scriptures I believe in. So it means I'm, I'm just thankful that I have a lifetime to work on it. You know, I have a lot of days to go back to practice and families are where we learn the most. Go figure, you know, a wife and children, couple wives, you more children, whatever it is you choose to do, that's where you're going to learn. And that's where the repentance comes in which the practice comes in, because we're confronted with ourselves every day, every day that we have interaction with our neighbors or politically, you know, now we live in a pretty tense time because it appears the match is going public and our actions are going to be viewed.

1:29:15 And so how we interact and whether we partake in the, you know, the, the things that we detest and the violence that that's going to be rampant or whether we protect and preserve, you know, there is a difference. And so I, I really believe that that we need to consider wisely men and women, families, fathers, mothers, children, youth, that as these days come upon us, we need to consider wisely our actions, be strong in the faith, be willing to stand up and preserve and protect. That is a calling from God and it is our basic, our basic commandment is to protect our own lives.

1:30:04 Absolutely, absolutely. We we've never been asked to turn the other cheek and not preserve our life. Now, if we've made a covenant, you know, there are certain elements where, where the, in, in Mormon history where people laid down their lives because they'd made a covenant to never fight again. And I understand that and that's OK. But as a general rule, God expects us to do all we can to preserve the freedoms of this land so that we can at least even worship Him in truth. Absolutely. And so here we sit and here we are, and we've all talked about it before, but what can we do?

1:30:45 What more can we do? How can we affect our own life and our children? How can we live in such a way that will one take us out of harm's way while we live, if that's possible? I'm always, everybody knows, it's listen to me. I'm just an advocate. Get out of the cities, remove yourselves from from the conflict. If you can find a place, ask the Lord where you should go. If he says stay, stay. That's not for me to judge. Between you and the Lord. No. But I'm here to say, remove yourselves as a general rule. Jeff's crying a warning. Get out of Babylon. Get yourselves into the race where you can, where you don't have to make the decision to preserve your life every day as you walk wherever you want to go with your family, you know, because those days are coming.

1:31:34 And, and I think we all feel it. That's another part of what's going on. We feel this, Oh my goodness, that changed things because now there's violence and they're encouraging violence. And the people that normally would have just been over there and we'd have been over here. Well, now they're fighting and they're hurting and they're crying out for pain and suffering, and so we're going to see more of it. But you don't have to stay there. Find a way to live a simpler life. You know, God's always asked us to be outside of that kind of wickedness, to be away from it. So see if you can find a way. If the call is there, Lord will open the door. Take your family, love them, you know, do all the things that you've been doing and ask what you can do better because we need to be prepared.

1:32:25 We need to create systems of safety and places where people can be and live in peace to the best of our abilities. 100% OK, I thought about this a lot. What I'm about to say next. We talked about repentance. This should be a call to repentance for us. We should, as I said before, the rest of this week until Monday, for those of us that didn't know the man personally, take stock of where you are in your life. Find out. Go ask the Lord.

1:33:07 What is it you're doing right? What is it you can do better? What is it you need to start doing and do that? Get the crap out of your life. The time is. The time is here that you need to get that out of your life because if you're alive right now, if you're listening to this podcast, it's not an accident. It's not a coincidence. You're here for a reason. You're here on this planet at this time and these moments for a reason.

1:33:49 I don't know who I'm talking to, but I feel like I'm talking to somebody out there. The message that was trying to be sent by Satan and by his emissaries is one of sit down and shut up. I rule this place now and with every fiber in my being. No, no, Now, once you have cleaned out the junk in your life, you need to stand.

1:34:31 You don't need to fight. Do not strike out an anger. You just have to stand. The time for half measures are gone. The time of the the the the Sunshine Mormon, to borrow and then tweak a phrase from Thomas Paine, is over. It requires men and women of character to plant themselves like a rock, lock arms and say no more. No longer will we be quiet.

1:35:11 For too long we, on this side of things have been have been content to stay silent. And look, I get it. I get being tired. Trust me, I understand. More so than I'll ever let many of you know. But that's no longer an excuse. You're going to have to find your spiritual strength. You're going to have to find your physical strength. And you are going to have to stand now and not be quiet. If you've prayed to the Lord and the Lord says, hey, there's a message I need you to share. It's incumbent upon you to share that message because you will reach somebody uniquely that only you can reach.

1:36:01 And you may look at it and say, gosh, I'm just one guy, I'm just one woman, I'm just one kid, whatever it is, yes, you are. And you know what? You can change things right now again. Be peaceful, but be firm in the gospel. Stand your ground, not one more inch. This is not a time now for fear. Fear was on Wednesday and Thursday. Today is Friday, tomorrow is Saturday, then you have Sunday. Get your butt to church. And I understand that some of us are independent fundamentalists, and that's great.

1:36:47 Church is with your family, studying the scriptures, partaking of the sacrament, and standing. But get your butt to church, whatever that looks like for you, and repent and clean that out. And then stand put on the full armor of God and deliver the message that the Lord has asked you to deliver and declare it nobly. Don't be bashful any longer. Souls. Now hang in the balance. If there's one positive to come out of this, I have seen a lot of people that used to be on that side of the spectrum who's have said I can't be here now, I can't be on this side that continues to try to take life. They're going to need someone to minister to them. Perhaps that's you and I don't know who you are exactly, but I know your heart.

1:37:52 I've felt it at times. I'm going to be honest. If it's only one message that you feel like you have to share, call me. I'll, I'll platform you. We'll have a discussion on the phone and then I'll bring you on. I don't have a problem with that. There are so many wonderful people that I have encountered because I've done this despite not wanting to. I have been so blessed by doing this because of the people I've been able to meet, Jeff being one of them. But the time is over and action is needed and action is not violent.

1:38:34 Action is just standing, saying no to the insanity, speaking truth, testifying of God and His plans for us. And I think that's what, quite frankly, I think that's what a guy like Kirk would want us to do. We have that opportunity now. And look, whether this time in history is just one more epic on the way to the Savior's return or this is the winding up scene, it doesn't matter.

1:39:16 Somebody's making notes of this. And someday, should we live that far, or if it's on the other side in the Millennium, our children and our grandchildren are going to say, Grandpa, I just read about this time in history and I realized you were in it. What did you do and do you want to have to be the one to look your kid in the eye and say, I, I farmed this out to somebody else to do, Are you going to be able to say, you know what? I felt like I had a message to share. So I went on this this crazy guy's podcast and I shared the message that the Lord put on my heart or gosh, you know what, I was inspired to start an organization. Go start the organization.

1:40:11 And I'm going to say something else here. Sometimes you got to be the change you want to see. The Lord doesn't give you thoughts and ideas. So you can be like, man, I wish I really had that. If He's giving you that a desire and you don't find anything around that looks like that, you know what that means? That means you got to go do it. That's your job. That's your calling. Go, go get it done. Last election cycle here in Missouri, they snuck a bill through. And I say snuck because the right side of the political spectrum did not do their due diligence in winning. They took for granted that, you know what? It's Missouri.

1:41:05 It's one of the reddest states in the Union. We're going to be fine. But it was about abortion. Well, guess what? They got it passed. And I heard a lot of people talk as I went out to lunch in Stockton or Springfield or or wherever, and people would say, man, if there was only something that I could do, you know, gosh, this is horrible. And just whining, whining about how bad things are. Yeah, it sucks. But guess what? You could be that change.

1:41:45 Maybe you should open up a counseling Center for women in crisis, Right. Doesn't take a lot. A phone and an ability to answer it, and you'll grow and you can help. But whatever the Lord puts on your heart, now is the time. Now is the time. There's no more time to put it on the back shelf. The seasons have changed again. It's all hands on deck. Look, if the LDS Church does right, I'll hang with them. I'll absolutely hang with them, right? Maybe not on Sundays, but I'll, I'll, I'll stand shoulder to shoulder with anybody who says correct principles.

1:42:33 And that's where we're at. And I think that's the calling of our time now. You don't get to be a spectator any longer. You got to get in the fight. You don't have to lash out. Don't be violent. We lose if we're violent, but stand, stand nonetheless. And I firmly mean that with everything in me. And I hope, I hope whoever it is, it's meant to hear that they pick that up. Jeff, anything else you want to add? Just Amen. Amen. Brother Dave sure love you.

1:43:16 I love you too, brother. Anything you want to add to finish up, Jeff? No, I think that we've covered a lot. I think that I think that you wrapped it up quite nicely. We need, we need to be about the Lord's business, you know? Absolutely. Whatever that means in our own lives and all is not lost. That's, that's the deception of, of the great deceiver.

1:43:57 The truth is the Lord is coming and he is the King of kings and he has power over the adversary. And you have a spark within you and I have a spark within me. And we've been called to be lights on a hill as everybody, the savior asked everybody to be a light on a hill to help their neighbor. And if we're doing those kinds of things, then the light chases away the darkness and you find yourself in a group of people who have strength between them and the spirit of the Lord's with you. And it doesn't matter what you're moving forward. It doesn't matter if you get rolled over, you know, and you're all gone.

1:44:37 Because that's part of the beauty of the program. Absolutely. After this one, the life after this one is is glory beyond comprehension. If we're found doing the things that God asked us to do, absolutely. So. All is not lost, however, unless we throw away our time and join the other side. Yeah. So endure to the end. Keep going to practice, become as good at being you, whoever you are, as you can, and let your light shine. Warn others, talk to others, be active and thank God for the gospel, for his Son, absolutely for the atonement of Jesus Christ and what it brings into our lives and how it refines us and builds us and gives us hope, even when the great deceiver stands up and does things like this. Absolutely, Jeff.

1:45:41 I love you buddy. Love you too, Dave. Let's do this again, but let's do it under happier circumstances. I agree. All right, I just want to tell the audience how much I love and appreciate them. I am continually shocked that as many of you tune in as what you do. I understand this is not a professional operation I have here. This is a full time job that that I try really hard to make look good. Not really a job, there's no money involved. But it is a calling and I am so thankful that all of you show up here week after week, put up with me so you can get to my guests who are really the ones that make this role.

1:46:31 I have felt like I've come to know you over these last three years, not individually, but collectively. I I, I feel your desire for righteousness and I'm bolstered by that and I just love each and everyone of you that TuneIn here consistently find solace this night and get ready to stand. The time is here. We don't need to be violent. We just have to stand. I leave that with you in the name of Jesus Christ, Amen. Jeff, hang out for 5 minutes. Everybody else will talk to you next week. Bye. You're listening to the Mormon Renegade podcast.